>>Good afternoon and welcome back to the Classiest Show in Technology. This is the Cube we are at AWS Reinvent 2022 in Fabulous Sin City. That's why I've got my sequence on. We love a little Vegas, don't we? I'm joined by John Farer, another, another Vegas >>Fan. I don't have my sequence, I left it in my room. We're >>Gonna have to figure out how to get us 20 as soon as possible. What's been your biggest shock for you at the show so far? >>Well, I think the data story and security is so awesome. I love how that's front and center. If you look at the minutes of the keynote of Adamski, the CEO on day one, it's all bulked into data and security. All worked hand in hand. That's on top of already the innovation of their infrastructure. So I think you're gonna see a lot of interplay going on in this next segment. It's gonna tell a lot of that innovation story that's coming next. It's pretty awesome. >>It is pretty awesome, and I'm super excited. It's not only what we do here on the Cube, it's also in my show notes. We are gonna be geeking out for the next segment. Please welcome Paul and Puja. Wonderful to have you both here. Paul from Amazon, s3, glacier, and Pujan, CEO of kuo. I wanna turn to you Pujan, to start us off, just in case the audience isn't familiar, give us the Kuo pitch. >>Yeah, so basically Kuo is a, a backup as a service offering, right? Built in AWS four aws, right? And effectively going after, you know, any service that a customer uses on top of aws, right? And so a lot of the data sitting on s3, right? So that's been like our, our big use case going and basically building backup and air gap protection for, for s3. But we basically go to every other service, e c two, ebs, dynamo, you know, you name it, right? So basically do the whole thing >>And the relationship with aws. Can you guys share, I mean, you got you here together. You guys are a great partnership. Born in the cloud, operation in the cloud. Absolutely. I think talk about the partnership with aws. >>Absolutely. I think the last five years of building on AWS has been phenomenal, right? And I love the platform. It's, it's a very pure platform for us. You know, the APIs and, and the access you get and access you get to the service teams like Paul sitting here and the other teams you have gotten access to, I think has been phenomenal. But we also have, I would say, pushed the envelope in terms of how innovative we have been and how aggressive we have been in utilizing all the innovation that AWS has built in over the last few years. But it would not have happened without the fantastic partnership with the service teams. >>Paul, talk about the, AM the S3 part of this. What's the story there? >>Well, it's been great working with the CUO team over the course of the last few years. We were just upstairs diving deep into the, to the features that they're taking advantage of. They really push us hard on behalf of customers, and it's been a, it's just been a great relationship over the last years. >>That's awesome. And the ecosystem at such a, we're gonna hear tomorrow, the keynote on the, from Aruba who's gonna tend over the ecosystem. You guys are working together. There's a lot of strategic partnerships, so much collaboration between you guys that makes it very, this is the next gen cloud of cloud environment we're seeing. And you heard the, the economies around the corner. It's still gonna be challenging, but still there's more growth in the cloud. This is not stopping. This is impacts the customers. What are the customers saying to you guys when you work backwards from their needs? They want it faster, easier, cheaper. They want it more integrated. What are some of the things, all those you guys hearing from customers? >>So for us, you know, if you think about it, like, you know, as people are moving to the cloud, especially like take a use case like s3, right? So much of critical data sitting on top of S3 today. And so what folks have realized that as they're, you know, putting all of those, you know, what, over two 50 trillion objects, you know, sitting on s3, a lot of them need backup and data protection because there could be accidental deletions, there could be software bugs, there could be a ransomware type event due to which you need a second copy of the data that is outside of your security domain, right? But again, that needs to get be done at the, at the right price point, right? And that's where like a technology like Columbia comes in because since we've been built on the cloud, we've optimized it correctly. So especially for folks who are very cost conscious, given the macroeconomic conditions, we are heading into a technology that's built correctly so that, you know, you get the right architecture and the right solution at the right price point and the scale, right? Talking about trillions of objects, billions of objects within a single customer, within a single bucket sometimes. And that's where Columbia comes in. Cause we basically do that at scale without, again, impacting the, the customer's wallet more than it needs to. >>The porridge has to be the right temperature and the right size bowl. With the right spoon. You've got a lot of complexity when it comes to solving those customer challenges. You have a couple customer story examples you're allowed to share with us. Correct? Paul, do you want to kick one off? Go ahead. Oh, puja. All right. >>No, absolutely. I think there's a ton of them. I, I'll talk about, you know, want to begin with like Cox Automotive, right? A phenomenal customer that we, all of us have worked together with them. And again, looking for a solution to backup S3 to essentially go air gap protection outside of their account, right? They looked at doing it themselves, right? They thought they'll go and basically do it themselves. And then they fortunately bumped into Columbia, they looked at our architecture, looked at what it would really go and take to build it. And guess what, sitting in 2022, getting 23 right now, nobody wants to go and build this themselves. They actually want a turnkey solution that just does it, right? And so, again, we are a phenomenal joint customer of ours doing this at a pretty massive scale, right? And there are many more like that. There's Warner Brothers that are essentially going into the cloud from on premises, right? And they're going really fast accelerating the usage on aws again, looking at, you know, backup and data protection and using clum because of our extreme simplicity that we provide. >>Yeah, I think it's, you've got a, a lot of different people solving different problems that you're working with all the time. Millions of customers. Well, how do you prioritize? >>Well, for us, it really all comes down to fundamentals, right? So Amazon, s3 s unique distributed architecture delivers industry leading durability, availability, performance and security at virtually unlimited scale, right? And it's really been delivering on the fundamentals that has earned the trust of so many customers of all sizes and industries over the course of over 16 years. Now, in terms of how we prioritize on behalf of those customers, we always say that 90% of our roadmap comes directly from what customers are telling us is important. And a large number of our customers now are using S3 through lumino, which is why the relationship is so important. We're here talking about customer use cases here at the show, and we do that regularly throughout the year as well. And that's, that's how we land on a road. >>And what are the, what are the top stories from customers? What, what are they telling you? What's the number one top three things you're hearing? >>I tell you, like, again, it just comes down to the fundamentals, right? Of security, availability, durability and performance at virtually unlimited scale. Like that is the first customer first discussions that we have with customers talking about durable storage, for >>Sure. What I find interesting in, you mentioned scale, right? That comes up a lot scale with data. Yeah. That we heard data. The big theme here, security, what's in my S3 bucket? Can you find out what's in there? Is it backed up properly? How do I get it back? Where's the ransomware? Why not just target the ransomware? So how do you navigate the, the security challenges, the, the need to store all that scale data? What's the secret sauce? >>Yeah, so I think the, the big thing is we'll start with the, you know, how we have architected the product, right? If you think about it, this, you're dealing with a lot of scale, right? You get to a hundred million, a billion and billions very fast on S3 few, especially on a cloud native application. So it starts with the visibility, right? It's basically about, like we have things where you do, where you create a subset of your buckets called protection groups that you can essentially, you know, do it based on prefixes. So now you can essentially figure out what prefix you want to back up and what you don't want to back up. Maybe there's log data that you don't care about, so you don't back that up, right? And it all starts with that visibility that you give. And the prefix level data protection then comes the scale, which is where I was telling you, right? We have basically built an orchestration engine, right? It's like we call the ES for Lambdas, right? So we have a internal orchestration engine and essentially what what we have done is we have our own language internally that spawns off these lambdas, right? And they go after these S3 partitions do the right things and then you basically reel them back. So things like that that we do that are not possible if you're not built on the >>Clock. Well also, I mean, just mind blowing and go back 10 years. Yeah. I mean you got Lambda. What you're talking about here is the gift of the cloud innovation. Yeah. So the benefit of S3 is now accelerated. This is the story this year. Yeah. I mean they're highlighting it at scale, not just in the data, but like what we knew when Lambda came out and what S3 could do. But now mainstream solutions are coming in. Does that change your backup plans? Because we're gonna see a lot more end to end, lot more solutions. We heard that on the keynote. Some are saying it's more complexity. Of course it might, but you can abstract another way with the cloud that's the best part of the cloud. So these abstraction leads. So what's your view on that? But I wanna get your thoughts because you guys are perfectly positioned for this scale, but there's more coming. Yes. Yes. Exactly. What, how are you looking at that? >>So again, I think the, you know, obviously the, the S3 teams and every team in AWS is basically pushing the envelope in terms of innovation. But the key for a partner like us is to go and take that innovation. A lot of complex architectures behind the scene. But what you deliver to the customer is simple. I'll give you one more example. One of the things we launched that, you know, Paul and others are very excited about, is this ability to do instant access on the backup, right? So you could have billions of objects that you backed up. Maybe you need just 10,000 of them for a DR test. And we can basically create like an instant virtual bucket on top of that backup that you can instantly restore >>Spinning up a sandbox of temporary data to go check it >>Out. Exactly. Offer an inte application. >>Think we're geeking out right now. >>Yeah, I know. Brought that part of the segment, John. Don't worry, we're safely there. But, >>But that's the thing, right? That all that is possible because of all the, the scale and innovation and all the APIs and everything that, you know, Paul and the team gives us that we go and build on top of >>Paul, geek out on with us on this. We >>Are super excited for instant restore >>For store. I mean, automation programmability. >>It is, I mean it's the logical next step for backup in the cloud. Exactly. Yeah. But it's a super hard engineering problem to go solve for customers. I mean, the RTO benefits alone are super compelling, but then there's a cost element as well of not having to bring back all that stuff for a test restore, for example. And so it's, it's been really great to, to work with the team on that. We have some ideas on how we may help solve it from our side, and we're looking forward to collaborating on it. >>This is a great illustration of what I was writing about this week around the classic cloud, which is great. And as Adam said, and used like to use the word and, and you got this new functionality we're seeing emerge from the growth. Yes. From the companies that are built on Amazon web services that are growing. You're a partner, they have a lot of other partners and people are taking over restaurant here off action. I mean, there's real growth and new functionality on top of aws. You guys are no different. What's, are you prepared for that? Are you ready to go? >>Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think if you think about, if you think about it, right, I think it's also about doing this without impacting the primary application. Like if the customer is running a primary application at scale on s3, a backup application like ours can't come in and really mess with that. So I think being able to do things where, and this is where you solve really hard computer science problems, right? Where you're bottling yourself. If you are essentially seeing any kind of, you know, interfering with the primary, you're going to cut yourself down. You're gonna go after a different partition. So there are a lot of things you need to do behind the scenes, which is again, all the complexity, all of that, but deliver the, to the customer a very, very simple thing. >>You know, Paul, I wanna get your thoughts and I want you to chime in. Yeah. In 2014, I interviewed Steven Schmidt, my first interview with the, he was the CISO then, and now he's a CSO and, and former ciso, he's back at that time, the word was the cloud's not secure. Now we're talking about security. Just in the complexity of how you're partitioning and managing your sub portions, how you explained it, it's harder for the attackers. The cloud in its in its architecture has become a more secure environment. Yeah. Well, and getting more secure as you have laying out this, this is a new dynamic. This is good. Can you explain the, >>I mean, I, I can just tell you that at AWS security is job zero and that it will always be our number one priority, right? We have a, an infrastructure with under AWS that is vetted and approved to run even top secret workloads, which benefits all customers in all regions. >>And your, your security posture is embedded on top of that. And you got your own stuff. >>Yeah. And if you think of it as a shared responsibility model, so security of the cloud is the responsibility of the cloud provider, but then security of the data on top of it. Like you, you go and delete stuff, your software goes and does something that resiliency, the integrity of the data is your responsibility as a customer. And that's where, you know, we come in. Who >>Shared responsibility has been such a hot topic all week. Yeah. >>I gotta ask him one more question. Cause this is fascinating. And we are talking about on the cube all day today after we saw the announcement and Adam's comment on the cube, Adams LE's comment on the keynote. I mean, he said, if you're gonna tighten your belt, meaning economic cost recovery, re right sizing. If you want to tighten your belt, come to the cloud. So I have to ask you guys, Puja, if you can comment, that'd be great. There's a lot of other competitors out there that aren't born on aws. What is the customer gonna do when they tighten the build? What does that mean? They're gonna go to, to the individual contracts. They're gonna work in the marketplace. I mean this, there's a new dynamic in town. It's called AWS 2022. They weren't really around much in the recession of 2008. They were just starting to grow. Now they're an economic force. People like yourselves have embedded in there. There's a lot of competition. What's gonna happen? >>I think people are gonna just go to a place like, you know, AWS marketplace. You're going to essentially look for solutions and essentially like, and, and the right solutions built in are going to be self-service like aws. It's a very self-service thing. A hundred percent. So you go and do self-service, you figure out what's working, what's not working. Also, the model has to be consumption oriented. No longer can you expect the customer to go and pay a bunch of money for shelfware, right? It's like, like how we charge how AWS charges, which is you pay for what you consume. That and all has to be front and center, >>Right? I think that's a really, I think that's a really important >>Point. It's time >>And I think it's time. So we have a new challenge on the cube. We give you 30 seconds roughly to give us your extraordinarily hot take your shining thought leadership moment and, and highlight what you think is the most important takeaway from the show. The biggest soundbite, the juiciest announcement. Paul, I'll >>Start with an Instagram. Real basically. Yeah. Okay. >>Yeah. Hi. Go. I would just say from an S3 perspective, over the course of the last several years, we've really seen workloads shift from just backup and recovery and static images on websites to data lake analytics applications. And you continue to see that here. And I can tell you that some of these scaled applications are running at enormous mind blowing scale, right? And so, so every year we come here, we talk to customers, and it's just every year it sort of blows me away. And I've been in the storage industry for a long time and it's just is, it blows me away. Just the scale at customers are running in >>And >>Blowing scale. And when it comes to backup, let me just say that it's easy to back up and recover a single object, but doing an easy thing, a billion or 10 billion times over, that's actually quite hard. >>And just to, just to bold that a little bit, just pull out my highlighter. S3 now has over 280 trillion objects. That's a lot. >>That's a lot of objects. >>Yeah. You are not, you are not kidding. When you talk about scale, I mean, this is the most scalable. >>That's not solution's not there. Yeah. That, that's right. And we wake up every, we have a culture of durability and we wake up every single day to raise the bar on the fundamentals and make sure that every single one of those objects is protected and safe. >>Okay. You, I, >>I can't imagine worrying about two, two 80 trillion different things. >>Let's go. You're Instagram real >>For me again, you know, between S3 and us, we are two players out there that are really, you know, processing the data at the end of the day, right? And so I'm very excited about, you know, what we are going to do more and more with the instant restore capability where we can integrate third party services on top of it that can do more things with the data that is not, not passively sitting, but now becomes active data that you can analyze and do things with. So that's something where we take this to the next level is something that I'm super excited about. >>There's a lot to be excited about and, and we're excited to have you. We're excited to hear what happens next. Excited to see more collaboration like this. Paul Pon, thank you so much for joining us here on the show. Thank all of you from for tuning into our continuous wall to wall super thrilling live coverage of AWS reinvent here in fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada, with John Furrier. I'm Savannah Peterson. We're the cube, the leading source for high tech coverage.

>>Hello and welcome to the AWS partners showcase season one, episode two. I'm your host of the cube John ferry. We're here with two great guests who John Kumar, CEO of and Sabina Joseph, the general manager of AWS. Welcome to the show. Welcome to welcome to the cube, >>John. Good to see you >>Again. Great to see both of you both cube. Alumna's great to see how the businesses is going, going very well. Cloud scale, continuing to dominate Columbia is doing extremely well. Tell us more about what's going on in Columbia. What's your mission? What kinds of use cases are you seeing? Napa John, that's helping you guys keep your growth trajectory and solve your customer problems. >>Yeah. Firstly, thank you, John. Thank you, Sabina. Great to be here is a backup as a service platform. That's built natively on AWS for AWS, and we do support other use cases beyond AWS. But our primary mission is to basically deliver, you know, a ransomware data protection solution, you know, on AWS for AWS customers. Right? So if we think about it, you know, one of the things that's, you know, typically holding back any company to put mission critical workloads on a fantastic platform, a public cloud platform like AWS is to make sure that the data is protected in the event of any attack. And it's also done with extreme amount of simplicity, right? So that nobody is doing the heavy lift of doing backup themselves, right? So that's what really drew me or provides. It's a service. It's a turnkey service that provides, you know, data protection on AWS, whatever. >>Well, you're a frequent cube alumni. We're always talking about the importance of that, but I want to ask you this year more than ever, you're seeing it at the center of the conversation built in from day one, you're seeing a lot more threats, certainly mentioned ransomware and more there's more and more online attacks that's impacting this particular area more than ever before. Can you comment on what your focus has been this year around that? >>Yeah, I see it. If you think about tumor's evolution, our primary mission has been to go and protect every data source, but guess what? Right with more and more move to the public cloud and you look just AWS is journey and that pioneer in public cloud going from, you know, whatever 3 billion in revenues, 10 years ago to north of 70 billion run rate today, there's so much of data that is in the public cloud and the, and the most important thing that customers need is they want to free themselves from going and protecting this data themselves. Right? And, and there's a lot of scale in these environments, right? If you look at customers running hundreds of thousands of AWS accounts across every region on AWS, and if you give them that kind of flexibility and that kind of scale, what they want is give me a turnkey solution that just allows me to go and protect all of these workloads running across all of these regions in a service that takes the data out of my accounts separately in an air gap fashion, right. And that's really what we basically provide. And that's what we focused on over the last 12 months. Right? So if you look at what we have done is we've gone after every important service on AWS TC to EBS RDS, S3, dynamo, sequel databases, and other databases running on top of BC too. So now that becomes the comprehensive set of things that somebody needs to use to really deliver an application on top of the public cloud. And that's where we want for, >>And the growth has been there and the results on Amazon because of the refactoring has been huge. Can you share any examples of some successes that you've had with, with the AWS refactoring and all that good stuff going on? >>Yeah. I mean, I think that what we have seen is, you know, customers that basically told us that before you guys existed, we had to go and build these things ourselves, right. Again, you know, they had all the, the, the blocks to go and do it themselves, but it was so much of a heavy lift to go and do it themselves. And again, they didn't want to be in a, you know, in that business. So, so what we have done essentially for, and we have, you know, we have some joint customers at a pretty massive scale that basically have said that, okay, let me just use your solution to protect my critical assets. Like, you know, things, you know, sitting in S3 and really, you know, we'll use gloomy as a, as a >>Yeah, I think that's a great example of the refactoring Sabina. Gotta, I gotta ask you, you obviously you're at the center of this. You have your hand on the wheel of the partnerships and all the innovators out there. The growth of AWS just has been spectacular because there's value being created. Again, companies are refactoring their business on the cloud and you're at the center of it. So talk about the partnership with Clooney. Can you tell us how it all started and where it's going? >>Yeah, thanks for having me here, John, and good to see you again, Fujian, if I'm not mistaken for John, we met each other at the San Francisco summit, the AWS San Francisco summit, actually I believe it was in 2016 or 2017. You can correct me if I'm wrong here, but yes, I think so. It was, it was in the 8% a month of April. I still remember it. And that's when, you know, you kind of mentioned to me about and this modern backup as a service solution that you were creating, you're still in stealth mode. So you couldn't talk a lot about it. And B started to engage deeply on the partnership, right from 2017. And initially we were kind of focused around helping Colombia build a solution using our well-architected review. And then as soon as we all came out of stealth mode, we started to engage more deeply around deeper integrations and also on go to market activities. >>As you know, AWS has a very prescriptive approach to our partnerships. So we started to work with around the five pillars of security, reliability, cost optimization, performance, and operational excellence to really help them tune the solution on AWS. And we also started to engage with our service teams and I have to thank Paul John and his team here. They really embraced those deeper and broader integrations, many services that Pooja mentioned, but also specifically want to mention S3 EBS. And our Columbia was also a launch partner for AWS outpost when AWS in fact, launched outpost. So I want to kind of commend CLU, CLU MEO, and the entire team kind of embracing this technology and innovation and this modern backup as a service approach. And also also embracing how we want to focus on the five key pillars that I mentioned. >>And that's a great example of success when you ride the wave, which I talk about the ACLU, Colombia trends in the data protection, because one of the things that you pointed out earlier is the ransomware. Okay. That's a big one, right? That's a big, hot area. How, how is the cloud, first of all, how is that going? And then how has the cloud equation changed the ransomware defense and protection piece of it? >>Yeah. Now I just, I wonder I had a little bit on what Sabina mentioned before I answered the question, John, if you don't mind. Sure. I think that collaboration is where is the reason why we are here today, right? Like if you think about it, like we were the first design partners to go and build, you know, the EBS direct API, right. And we work closely with the EBS teams, not just for the API, but the cost structure of it. How would somebody like us use it? So we are at the bleeding edge of some of these services that we are using and that has enabled us, you know, to be where we are today. So again, thank you very much to be enough for this fantastic partnership. And again, there's so much to go and do to really go and nail this in a, in a, in a, in a great way on, on the public cloud. >>So now coming back to your question, John, you know, fundamentally, if you see right, you know, what happened is when, when, when customers move to the public cloud, you know, right there, you know, the ease of use with which, you know, AWS provides these services, right? And the consumption of these services actually drives some amazing behavior, right? Where people actually want to go and build, build, build, and build. But then it comes a time where somebody comes in and says, okay, you know, are you compliant? Right. You know, do you have the right compliance in place? You have all these accounts that you have, but what is running in each of these accounts, you have visibility in those accounts. And are these accounts that the data in these accounts is this gap, right? This is getting air gap in the same region, or does it need to be across regions? >>Right. You know, I'm in the east, do I need to, you know, have an air gap in the west and so on and so forth. Right? So all of these, you know, confluence of all these things come in and by the, all these problems existed in on-premise world, they get translated in, in the public cloud, where do I need to replicate my data, doing it to back it up? Do I need air gapped in a, like an on-prem world? You had a data domain of plans, which was separate from your primary storage for a reason, same similar something similar now needs to happen here for compliance reasons and for ransomware reason. So a lot of parallels here is just that here we are, it almost feels like, you know, as they say, right, the more things changed. The more they remain the same. That's what it is in the public cloud again. >>Well, that's a good point. I mean, let's take that example of on premises versus the cloud. Also, the clouds got more scale too, by the way. So now you've got regions, this is a common problem that customers are having, you can build your own and, or use solutions, but if you don't get ahead of it, the compliance question can bite you in the, you know what, because you then got to go back and retrofit everything. So, so that's kind of what I hear a lot on my end is like, okay, I want to be compliant from day one. I want to have an answer when asked, I don't want to have to go to old techniques that don't fit the cloud. That comes up a lot. What's your answer to that? >>Yeah, no, no. We were pretty much right. I think it's like, you know, when it, when it comes to compliance and all of these things, you know, people at the end of the day are looking for that same foundation of, of things. The same questions are asked for an encryption. You know, you know, I is my data where it needs to be when it needs to be right. What is my recovery point? Objective? What is my recovery time objective? All of these things basically come together. And now, as you said, it's just the scale that you're dealing is, is extremely different in the cloud and the, and the services, right? The easier it is that, you know, it is to use these services. And especially what AWS does, it makes it so easy. So compelling that same ease of use needs to get translated with a SAS service, like what we are doing with data protection, right? That that ease of use is very important. You have to preserve that sanctity >>Sabina. Let's get back to you. You mentioned earlier about the design partner, that benefits for Colombia. Now let's take it to the next level. As customers really realize they have a problem, they need solutions and you're on the AWS side. So you gotta have the answers for the customers. You've got to put people together, make things work. There's a variety of things that you guys offer. What are some of the different facets of the ISV or the partner programs that you offer to partners like Clooney, you know, that they can benefit from? >>Absolutely John, we believe in a win-win approach to the partnerships because that's what makes partnerships durable over time. We're always striving to do better here. And we continue to broaden our investments. As you know, John, the AWS management team, right from Adam Phillipsky, our CEO down firmly believe that partners are critical to our success, our longterm success, and as partners like CLU MEO work to lean in with us with more investment resources, our technology innovation. We also ensure that we are doing our part by providing value back to Cleo about a few years ago, as you might recall, right. We really did a lot of investment in our sales team on the AWS side. Well, one of the tanks me and also our partners observed is while we were making investments in the AWS sales team, I don't think we were doing a great job at helping our partners with reaching out to those customers. >>What we call as co-sale and partners gave us feedback on this. We are very partner and customer feedback driven, and we introduced in fact, a new role called the ISP success manager, ISS, who are basically embedded in our field. And they work with partners to help them close opportunities. And also net new opportunities are we've also in 2020. I believe that re-invent, we launched the ISB accelerate program whereby we offer incentives to the AWS field team to work with our partners to close existing opportunities and also bring in net new opportunities. So all of this has led to closer collaboration in the field between both our field teams, Muir's field team and our field team, but also accelerated mutual customer wins. I'm not saying that we are doing everything great. We still have a long ways to go. And we are constantly getting feedback from cluneal and also some of our other key partners, and we'll continue to get better at it. But I think the role of the ISV success manager and also the ISP accelerate program has been key to bringing in cold cell success. >>Well, John, what's your take on, is this a good partnership for you? I mean, see, the wave of Vegas has got the growth numbers. You mentioned that, but from a partnership standpoint, you're closing business, they got scale. Is it working? How do you organize your company to take advantage of these benefits? Can you share your thoughts? >>Absolutely not. We have embraced the ecosystem wholeheartedly 100%, but if you think about it, what we have done is look at our offering on AWS marketplace. There's an example, right? We are the only company I would say in our domain, obviously that routes our entire business through AWS marketplace. Whether obviously we get a lot of organic benefit from AWS marketplace, people go and search for a solution and from your shows up, and obviously they go and onboard self onboard themselves, and guess what? We let them self onboard themselves. And we rely on AWS's billing automatically. So you don't need to talk to us. You can just get billed automatically in your AWS bill and you get your data protection solution. Or if you directly reached out to us, guess what we do. We actually route you through AWS marketplace. All the onboarding is just to one place and it's a fantastic experience. >>So we have gone like all in, on that experience and completely like, you know, internalized that that's the right way to do things. And of course, thanks to, you know, Sabina's team and the marketplace team to create that platform so that we could actually plug it into it. But that's the kind of benefits that we have that we have, you know, taken advantage of a DWI. That's one example, another example that Sabina mentioned, right, which is the whole ACE program. We put a ton of registrations on AIS and with all the wins that we get on AWS, they could broadcast it to the sellers. So that creates its own vicious cycle in terms of more coming into the pipeline and more closing in. So, so these are just two small examples, but there's other examples that we look at our recent press release, where AWS, you know, when we, when we launched yesterday data protection and backup, the GM of AWSs three supported us in the press release. So there's things like that, that it's a, it's a fantastic collaboration. That's working really well for our joint customers. Sorry. >>And tell us something about the partnership between 80 of us, including, you know, that people might not be aware of some of the things that Poojan said that they're different out there that, that are, co-selling go marketing, that you guys offer people you guys work together on. >>Yeah. The, the ISV accelerate program that was created, it was really created with partners like Klunier in mind, our SAS partners. I think that that is something very, very unique between our partnership and, you know, I, I want to double click on what Poojan said, which is riding their opportunities through marketplace, right? All of their opportunities. That is something pretty unique. They understand the richness of the platform and also how customers are procuring software today in this world. And they've embraced that. And we really appreciate that. And I want to say, you know, another thing about Qumulo is they're all in on AWS, which is another unique thing. There are not a lot of, I would say all in partnerships in my world and I manage infrastructure, business apps, applications, and industry partnerships from the Americas globally. And all of those things are very, very unique in our partnership, which has led to success. Right. We started very, very early stage when Columbia was in stealth mode in 2017 and look where we've come today. And it's really kudos to Paul, John and his entire team for believing in the partnership for leaning in with us and for placing that trust with us. >>Awesome. Pooja, any final words you'd like to share for folks out there about the conversation and what's going on in Columbia? >>Yeah, no, absolutely. You know, as I said, I think we have been fortunate to be very early adopters of all these technologies and go and really build what a true cloud native solution has to be. Right. And, and again, right, you know, this is what customers are really looking for. And people are looking for, you know, at least on the data protection side, you know, ransomware air gap solution, people are looking for a solution natively built on the cloud because that's the only way a solution can deliver something at the scale and the cost structure that is needed to have, you know, a data protection solution in the public cloud. So, so this has been just a fantastic thing end to end, you know, for us overall. And we really look forward to, you know, going, you know, doing much more with AWS as we essentially go and scale, >>I have to ask, but before we, before we go, cause you're the CEO of the company and founder having all that backend infrastructure from Amazon, just on the resources, great. It creates a market for your product, but also the sales piece, you know, they got the marketplace, you mentioned, that's a big expense that you don't have to carry, you know, and you get revenue and top line. I mean, that's an impact for startups out there and growing companies. That's a pretty big deal. What's your, what's your advice to folks out there who are trying to think about the buy versus use the leverage of the, of the marketplace, which is, which is at large scale, because as a CEO, you're, you've got to make these decisions. What's your opinion on that? >>It's not, it's not as, as easy as I make it sound to do your own part. You know, AWS is, is, is, is huge, right? It's huge. And so we have to do our part to educate everybody within the, you know, even the AWS seller base to make sure that they internalize the fact that this is the right solution for the customers, for our joint customers, right? So we have to do that all day long. So there's no running away the no shortcut to everything, but obviously AWS does its part to make it very, as easy as possible, but there's a lot of heavy lifting we still have to do. And I think that'll only become easier and easier over the next few years >>And Sabina your takeout at AVS. You've got a great job. You were with all the hot growth companies. This is the big wave we're on right now with the cloud next generation clouds here, a lot of opportunities. >>Absolutely. And it's, and it's thanks to Pooja and, and partners like Lumeo that really understand what it takes to build a cloud native solution because it's part of it is building. And part of it is the co-selling go-to-market engine and embracing both of that is critical to success. >>Well, thank you both for coming on this journey here on the cube, as part of the showcase, push on. Great to see you to being a great to see you as well. And thanks for sharing that insight. Appreciate it. >>Thank you very much. >>Okay. AWS partners showcase speeding innovation with AWS. I'm John Ford, your host of the cube. Thanks for watching.

>>from >>around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent >>2020 sponsored >>by Intel, AWS and our community >>partners. >>Hi. And welcome to the cubes coverage of AWS reinvent 2020. I'm your host, Justin Warren. And today I am joined by two lovely gentlemen. We have Brian Cahill from a company called Frog Slur, which is interesting. And we also have Chad Kenny from Clooney. Oh, gentlemen, welcome to AWS reinvent 2020 Chad, It's bean about what A year since I think we last spoke at at reinvent last year. Why don't you catch us up on what's been happening in the last year of the Korean Times >>s? Um we're excited to be here. Justin, thanks so much for the introduction and hosting us. So it's been an exciting action back here. I will say we've had a bunch of new innovations. I think last time we talked, we were just getting our first native solution inside of AWS for EBS. And since then we've evolved the dissolution dramatically. Claudio is ah, secure backup is a service offering for the enterprise, and this allowed us to be able to scale from just EBS into being the industry's first platform to go across public, private and SAS all in one service, >>and >>we innovated within AWS a ton. So we expanded from CBS Thio, Easy to and RDS. We brought in one of the most native services Outside of snapshots. We kind of progress the enterprise from the traditional snapshot primitive into a true enterprise class Back up on built in a time series Data Lake that allows, you know, enterprises to decouple their data from the infrastructure and really be able to provide tons of value into the future. So it's an exciting time for us. Toe, you know, really bring new innovative solutions to the market. >>That's an impressive amount of work given whatever else has been going on in the last 12 months, Teoh be able to ship that much stuff. You've been really, really busy. Um, brought Brian on now. Brian Frog Slayer. Tell me. Tell me a bit about the background for the name of the company they >>frogs layer. The name actually came from a initial founder who, you know, was trying to protect the animals, wanted to take care of nature and stuff and actually stepped on frog. So you got nicknamed by his buddies frogs here and that, then became the company name. >>So tell us about frogs layer. What is it that and your role there. What is it the Frog Slayer does? And what's your role there? >>Frogs there does business consulting. And then we developed custom software star goals to help businesses get past ah, hurdle. So a growth business that's that's kind of stuck make them more efficient, more productive thing kind of move to the next level. And my role here is the head of I t. That custom software rebuild we host for our clients. And so we try to offer to them is a SAS solution. So it's not only a custom software, but it's kind of offered a SAS solution them to consume. >>Terrific. So >>how long has >>the relationship with Clooney I've been going on? >>It's been about four months now, >>all right. And how did you get introduced Thio chat on the team in Colombia? >>Um, we started with AWS writing our own backup scripts and as we started to move more of their past services like RDS and then RDS went to serve Earless and Aurora the You just have to keep upgrading and changing and tweaking your scripts. And so we started looking round to say, Is there, uh is there a software we could use instead of doing this ourselves? And so through a bar, we got connected with Clooney? Oh, we're checking out a whole bunch of solutions. And most of them were snapshot managers just using the a p i s to do the same things we were doing. Whereas Clooney I was doing it totally differently where they would actually take a snapshot and then rehydrate it, take that data and then make it more like a traditional backup where you could d duplicate it and save on costs and stuff. >>Right? Okay, so, Chad, is that something that you've been? Is that one of the many features that you've added in the last 12 months? Or is this something that a little more fundamental to the way Columbia works? It's >>very fundamental. I think what we're doing is both doing efficiencies around the data itself. So do you do compression and, of course, security around encryption. But we ingest the data index and catalog it on, then make it so that customers could get fine grained granularity for how they restore even down to the database record. And so one of the big things that we've seen, especially in Cloud First customers such as frogs Layer is they're really trying to use either the native tools to start with or build your own type. Models on the costs increased dramatically. The complexity of not having a catalog and index make restores incredibly hard. Andi. It just becomes, ah, much more painful model of hidden costs, left and right. And so what we wanted to do was really provide unique simplicity to be able to protect all of the AWS accounts and even all of the data assets across clouds in one single pane of glass and give a user experience that was dramatically different than having to run very scripts or build your own or have a tool on prim and have a different tool for this cloud versus another cloud. And by having this consolidated index obviously drive a ton of value around leverage from the data, >>Hmm, >>interesting. So, Brian, you mentioned that this is your relationship with Colombia has Bean only about sort of four months that sort of smack in the middle of the pandemic that's been going on here was Was that a trigger for you looking at alternate options? Or were Or is this something that you've been planning for a while? >>No. This has been on a road map for a little while. Um, just as we start using more AWS services and trying to figure out how do we scale what we're doing? Um, we're looking for Mormon Enterprise Backup. But then, as we looked around most the backup solutions, you end up hosting the software upgrade in the software and maintaining things on. >>Have you noticed a major change since you've been using Colombia? >>Yes, What Cuneo offered was the ability to because it's a fast solution. It's a There's an air gap between us and the backup, so I'm not hosting the backups or the data. It's in a separate account, and I can't even delete it. So there's kind of a protection level that someone who are and can't accidentally delete the stuff we're backing up >>right? And one thing that I've noticed is in the news a lot more over the last couple of days. But it's certainly been hitting a lot this year is the idea of ransomware. So a lot of customers that certainly that I speak to have been quite concerned that what's going on with that? So how are you Brian addressing that within your organization? Do you feel comfortable that you're well protected and what else are you looking at? But you're trying to protect yourselves from >>right when it comes to ransom, where we try to have our client data in such a way that no one person can access or delete all of it. And so that's where we initially had separate AWS accounts for every client and with Columbia we now have Colonial maintains that separation. So they're keeping that air gap for us. And then, you know, we're doing our own stuff internally. Just make sure we don't get something. But the backups, including our kind of that second step for say something, gets past all of our safeguards. We've got another safeguard in place that >>sounds pretty prudent. So, Chad, is that is that something that you're hearing from a lot of customers? The need for this separation of powers within the system? >>Yeah, it's coming up quite often. And I think one of the big challenges here is to deliver an air gap solution with other types of data protection products. Whether it's on primer in the cloud have a ton of complexity to it, whether you're buying a separate appliance and you have to create a network air gap or whether you're actually replicating from one AWS account into another AWS account, the cost just double. And so what we built in was a system that not only is immutable, but as Brian mentioned, there's no ability to actually delete the data because the timeto live for the data that's persisted is defined by the policy. And so if a bad actor was to get into the environment, there's no way that they could potentially go into our system and actually delete anything. But if you look at like AWS as an example, if most customers they're storing snapshots inside their account as a hole on theirs, vulnerabilities even beyond, you know, ran somewhere and just on accident or a bad actor even inside the environment that's not even ran somewhere. And so protecting that is one of the key capabilities of the platform where We're outside of the service outside of the cloud, in many cases to protect the customer's data on make sure that they can restore it to any account in the event that even a bad actor gets access to it. Yeah. So, Brian, one thing >>that I like to ask customers about, particularly and cloud services is they've changed the way that we do things. And why Why we started using cloud is often not what we're actually using it for today. So with respect to Cuneo and your services that you're running in cloud, what's something that you've noticed that you're now doing? That surprises you? One of those added bonus is that you weren't really expecting. Have you seen anything like that? As you've managed Thio to start using Clooney Oh, that did everything that you wanted it to do. And now you're finding there's these new opportunities. >>Yeah. One of the big advantages of Colombia was when we took snapshots and replicated them out of the source AWS account. It's like in the source account. There was d duplication enabled. Once you replicated to another AWS account, it re hydrates the snapshot. So everyone takes up the full amount of space And to start hitting this like, how much data do I retain versus like, Oh, this is really expensive. I should like, you know, lower my retention. And we just that totally went away with Clooney. Oh, and then as far as the cloud is, the whole what's cool is that they're kind of more past services. So rds where I don't maintain, you know, patches on the O. S or on the sequel or yours, um, application service where you're not maintaining the OS. That's kind of moving at the next level up faras less less that you're maintaining your more maintaining your code in your application, >>right? And how important is the cloud native capability of Columbia? There's plenty of backup solutions around, and we've We've had them for many years because data protection is not a new idea. Ah, lot of a lot of what other side now cloud native. We try to put things into the cloud first. How important is it? Toe have something which understands cloud native >>and it basically means they're totally aware of what we're doing. And so they're not trying to take an old solution and make it fit in the cloud. They built it for the cloud from the ground up. So when you get in there user interface, there's not all of these old buttons and knobs and stuff. It's very simple. It's a policy, a tag. And then inside the account, the tag grabs objects. So they've made a very simple user interface that's saves a lot of time on implementation. >>Excellent. What are some of the things that you're looking to do in the future now that you've better things in and you've now got four months of solid experience with the product? What are you anticipating that you're going to be doing next? >>Um, we're excited about We're starting. But some are customers in a jurors cloud with Clooney was developing capabilities for that, and then Colombia is also working on capabilities for some of our business applications. So the idea of having all of our kind of backups in one place and less separate buckets you've got to go manages exciting. >>Yes, so Chad multi cloud hybrid cloud. Their words sort of called to be the controversy over the over the years. It does certainly sound like a lot of customers they're using, or at least exploring multiple, different options on Certainly for yourselves, you'll have customers who exist in in one cloud and others that will be in a different one. So how are you addressing the idea of of hybrid cloud and multi cloud? >>Great question. So our belief is that data is going to disperse itself Mawr and Mawr, especially as time goes on and there's multiple faces, this kind of cloud adoption that we see we see kind of, you know, the initial lift into Public Cloud, which kind of created that first hybrid example than theirs. You know the optimization within the clouds, so they're looking for cost reduction and operational izing. And then it's kind of like looking at ways of how doe I utilize different clouds for different things that may be mawr operationalized arm or optimized than others. And so we really believe in this world of creating a single platform or fabric that goes and expands across all clouds, consolidates and index and catalog into one view for the end user, and allows them to be able to push data to any cloud that they need to longer term. And at the same time, protect it. The fun part about migrations is yeah, you could move data, but when you're protecting it at the same time to it allows you to actually keep your production up and running, restore a dev environment somewhere else to play around with it and do it in multiple different potential clouds on then have that initial data that's still fully protected in your environment. And so I'd say that the protection side is a really cool on. The second one is Brian mentioned was the whole Data Lake concept that sits behind where we decouple the data from the infrastructure and with past services. This is incredibly important because, let's say, a year and a half from now, the database engines not even supported with the snapshot that you have left over in your account you've been retaining, you've not got to go through the process of upgrading and getting it up to the rev toe actually even get it working in our world, we create logical backups of those data sets, and they're instantaneously available for direct query access, even right in the gooey. And so now this decoupling of infrastructure brings significant value, right now but into the future. This opens up opportunities to be able to do et al pipelines and actually levers the data well beyond back up into other use cases, >>sort of to finish up looking forward. Always, like Thio have a bit of a view of what the future future holds. Its one of my favorite parts of being at reinvent is we get to see the new technology and and what the possibilities are for for what we could use. It takes something, take it home, have a bit of a play with it and and see what we could do for next year. So but if you Brian, we'll start with you. What are you looking forward to in 2021? What do your your future plans? >>Looking forward to migrating mawr of our stuff toe platform as a service offerings where we're taking advantage of the fact that the cloud has built some of the base layers and we could just build on top of that and then the second one that's exciting is the scalability. So with a B, A s, a server lists and the other land and different things that they're running out where we don't need to run physically. See two instances, air always on databases, but things that can scale up and down based on our client workload. That's just exciting as far as our infrastructure and and just the ability for cost savings, but also that just just in time, scaling for our customer demand >>and chad yourselves at Columbia What what can we Can you give us a hint of what we we might see in 2021 from Clooney? Oh, >>yes. So the first thing I'd say that I'm most excited about any New Year is just seeing the advantages customers get with the platform, right? Like we did a lot of innovation during this time. I'd say Cove, it had, you know, some benefits and some downsides from just company growth and, you know, not being close together and having that feeling. But we innovated incredibly quickly, and we were heads down and highly efficient, and eso I'm excited about really showcasing a lot of the innovation that we built during this year, and I think our customers are moving to the cloud faster than ever. And so I'm excited toe to see a lot of that. What you'll see from us is more and more innovation outside of just, you know, the traditional realm. Changing the user experience dramatically with new innovations, which sounds kind of broad. But think of it as creating more and more of that fabric. We're going to get into new public clouds. We're going to get into new SAS services. We're going to expand the user experience in the core platform for recover ability, for security, for enabling easy work flows for various different use cases. And so I'm excited about taking the data and really leveraging it into multiple different use cases outside of data protection on into the future. >>Well, it sounds like we have a lot to look forward to from Cuneo. I I personally look forward to hearing more about it. Hopefully we get to catch up. Ah, little bit earlier, Not not quite. Wait a full 12 months between reinvents, but if not, we'll definitely be seeing you again next year and and hearing about all of the new innovations that you've managed to come up with. You've got 12 months. There's plenty of time. Yeah, definitely Awesome. Sorry. Thank you very much. Brian Brian Kale from Frogs Layer and Pritchard, Kenny from Clooney. Oh, did my guest today. I've been Justin Warren for the Cube and all of our coverage here for AWS reinvent 2020. Do check out all the rest of the videos on. We will see you next time. >>Take care, Yeah.

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering AWS re:Invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and Intel, along with it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to AWS re:Invent 2019, you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage, my name is Dave Vellante and here with my co-host, Justin Warren. We're going to talk about data protection, really important topic, particularly in the cloud. Chadd Kenney is here, he's the Vice President and Chief Technologist at Clumio, a hot new start-up, and to my left is Charlie Gautreaux, he's the Senior Director of cloud services at Ally. Gents, good to see you. >> Thank you very much. >> Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks for having us. >> You're welcome. So let's start Charlie with you, tell us about Ally a little bit. >> Sure sure, we're a 10-year-old financial services company, a digital-only bank, multicloud at this point. Certainly, you know, talking to Chadd about data protection quite a bit these days. I think it's a very important topic, it's actually overlooked quite a bit in the marketplace for us, and that's what we're looking at. >> So Chadd, I mean, exciting days for you guys, early start-up days, you just get a couple of rounds, one sizable financing round. So that's, you got now some dry powder to really go after this opportunity. I first heard of Clumio, I met a guy on a plane, he had a Clumio shirt on and he was a customer. I was like ,"Hey, ah yeah, Clumio!" Just basically, and so he's very excited, we had him into our studio, so we want to learn more about that. But, so let's start with back up in the cloud. >> Yeah. >> Share with our audience kind of what you guys are all about. There's a ton of companies out there doing data protection. >> Sure. >> Why Clumio? >> So what Clumio is, is it's a enterprise backup business service solution, highly secure, built natively in the public cloud on cloud-native resources. And we really felt that back-up was just this complex solution of a lot of hardware, a lot of different resources and time spent, and it was really low-hanging fruit to move to the cloud in a full SaaS-based solution. There's been so much SaaS-ification going on in the enterprise as a whole, that this seemed like a perfect spot for people to be able to take advantage of the cloud, and longer term actually get value from the data sets that they're actually backing up in one common platform. >> I mean, it's kind of surprising, isn't it, that it's taken so, I mean, it started with CRM, I guess, and then of course e-mail went-- >> Yeah. >> Over to SaaS, and you had service management, which is kind of a big heavy lift. You know, data warehouses now in the cloud, so it seems like a logical move to put SaaS in the cloud, but I wonder if you could share with us what you guys are doing in a cloud generally, are you guys all cloud, a cloud-native company, or? >> I would say we're about two years on the journey at this point. You know, we started out very much on the IIS side of the house, I think like a lot of folks, more recently though, over the last few years, we're slowly shifting more towards cloud-native services for most of our applications that we're releasing. Certainly a large part of that for us is data management in general, where do we put the data, how do we store it, classify it, recover it, those sorts of things, and certainly our application portfolio is shifting quite a bit from your traditional software packages in the data center to more cloud-native services, either we build or that we buy as a SaaS product. So certainly, the SaaS feature, if you will, of Clumio is very interesting to us, and that model, and that delivery model. >> It's interesting, Charlie, how you described it as not, you didn't describe it as backup, you talked about data management, you talked about how do you categorize it, and so you're thinking, people are thinking about data protection in a different way, it sort of transcends backup these days. Maybe you could elaborate on that. >> Yeah, I definitely think it's broader than backup. We don't actually use that term too much, even in my space, you know to us it's all about availability recoverability, and durability, right, and all three of those things along with how you overall manage your data, I think we saw some announcements even today on that, are a big piece of the story for us. So it's not only about backup, but certainly that's one component. >> So one thing we've heard from the show so far certainly a lot today has been around transformation. So, a back-up is a pretty traditional kind of idea, it's been around for a very long time. People have had a go at transforming this a couple of times, so maybe Chadd, you can give us a bit of a flavor of what is it that Clumio is doing differently that is transformational here? Is it transformational or are you just basically doing the same stuff, but with some cloud rubbed on it? >> Yeah, I think if you look at the past, a lot of these solutions were iterative approaches that made it simpler to deploy, maybe add some new features to it, but it wasn't fully transformative to actually move it to the public cloud, and what we've done here is is we've fundamentally built an application 100% on cloud-native resources which are highly scalable, and it's not you're just make it easier to consume or you pay for the cloud services, and then there's a new consumption model by capacity, this is fundamentally an entirely authentic SaaS solution built in the public cloud. And the value that you get with that is that data structures that traditionally were built for backup never really were suited to do a lot of other things on top of it. Our vision is, is that data backup provides the ability to consolidate data into one common platform, but there are a lot of data services you can provide on top of it. I always jokingly say like, the backup guy actually had all of the data in one spot, and the trends that happened within that data, but the platform never gave him the ability to be able to leverage and get value from the data set itself, and the cloud gives us that. If you were to build a product today, you would build it 100% on the public cloud for the agility, the competitive advantage you get, it's very tough for people though to switch from the model of the old into the model of the new, and so we have the advantage of building from the cloud up, and taking advantage of all of the amazing innovations. Look at what's out here and the amount of innovation here, it's amazing, just walking around seeing all of it. It's really because people can get in quickly, innovate fast, and bring value to customers. >> Well it's interesting what you're saying about transformation because if you think about the sort-of post-mainframe era, and by that I mean, the era in which mainframe was the be all end all, it was, you know you had an application, you'd stick it on a you know, whatever Unix box, or whatever it is and you'd figure out how to back it up. Okay, and then virtualization came along and that forced everybody to re-think how they were doing data protection, and now cloud comes along, and it's really an opportunity to transform. And I guess what I mean is, you've had a lot of entrance into the space, with a lot of money, but they're sort of entering in a hybrid sort of model. You guys are just-- >> The cloud is fundamentally different than what it was before, it's like even a VM is like, well it's basically still a server, so it's still kind of anchored to this older way of doing things, bt the cloud-- >> You just have less physical resources and so you had to re-think that a little-- >> That's right. >> But you guys are coming at it completely differently, saying okay, we're going to put the control in the cloud. No appliance >> And data planes, yeah. >> Control plane, data plane, right, everything. >> It's an entirely new world. If you look at where data resides today, it's private cloud, public cloud, SaaS-based solutions, pretty much everyone's got the private cloud backup thing down to a science, it's all of the other things that are actually pretty challenging to deal with. And you know, that's where we're innovating in. We believe that the world is shifting heavily towards SaaS, we're already seeing that in the market growth numbers, many people are getting a competitive advantage of re-factoring towards cloud, and so we want to help them protect their data assets along that journey. And it's exciting because a lot of the innovation is being done there, and we're not trying to innovate into the last 20 years worth of stuff that everybody else is kind of built around. >> So Charlie, you mentioned you're about two years into your transformation journey, so okay, walk us through how does something like Clumio and this different way of thinking about data protection and data management, how does that join in to the way you think about that transformation journey? >> Yeah, sure. Taking just a little bit of a side step on that for a moment, I think one of the key components and key tenets to any of our transformation has been making sure that we do it in a way that doesn't disrupt the business, right? And all of the new innovations we're seeing in the cloud space are very transformative, but they're also disruptive in how applications are deployed and built, and we're looking at it from a, you know, if we're going to deploy to AWS for example, I don't want my backup to be in the same place that I'm running my application, right, necessarily. I want another provider or another solution to actually own that air gap for me. And especially as we look at multicloud, maybe it's Amazon, maybe it's something else, we don't want to be locked in to one provider in that sense. So from a transformation perspective, for us it's all about that availability from my perspective, so. >> You do mention multicloud there, which is a bit of a verboten word or term of choice. >> Not in theCUBE! >> Ah, not in theCUBE. So, talk to us about that a little bit. How do you, what, where do you see the benefits of multicloud, and when you say multicloud, what is it that you mean by that, or how do you think about multicloud? >> Yeah, sure. From my perspective, multicloud is a couple of components. One that you mentioned is SaaS and other options, we have data out there and maybe our CRM solutions, right. Multicloud from a, I'm either hosting data or executing the data in some application fashion. To me is exactly what I was really talking about, so whether it's Office 365, whether it's some type of CRM, Azure, Amazon, Google, anything else is really what I was referring to. I think that, you know, it's certainly, we're in an era where single provider is not really an option for the long run, right, so. >> So, in thinking about, you mentioned air gap, right, so ransomware is obviously a hot topic, do you think about that differently with the cloud data management, data protection solution than you would with sort of a conventional approach or how do you think about that? >> Yeah, I do, it's kind of interesting, you know, we were having a conversation earlier about this. Companies used to have my data in my server farm, I back it up, and I replicate it to another site. Huge air gap, right, and then all of a sudden, we've put data in the cloud and we kind of forgot about that, at least is what I see. And so I think, we have to kind of reintroduce that mindset again, and I don't see a way that, you know, forward without that type of mindset, really. >> So you've mentioned the SaaS model was attractive to you, what about, is there anything unique about pricing that you guys can share with us, whether it's the overall cost or the way in which pricing is done in the cloud, how important is that to you? >> It's really very important, you know, I think prior to any of the SaaS solutions, or pay as you go, it was large upfront costs, right, you usually even had to pay beyond that because you would need the growth room, right, so for two or three years, you're actually, costs were higher than they needed to be. So from my perspective on the pricing model for Clumio, or solutions even like that, we want to make sure that we pay as we go, and really, yeah. >> Yeah, some interesting stuff that we've been seeing, at least in the public cloud side of the house is, you know, retention periods are defined by the budgets somebody has to store snapshots. >> Yeah, yeah. >> The business requirements in the private cloud is based upon the business requirements, and the challenge with that is, is that you have this inflated cost at long-term durations, and we give some predictability to that, so there's a big value there. But the big one that we talked about a lot earlier is, having data reside right next to your backup or even having to manage all of that across many different accounts, the whole concept of having an air gap solution enables you to not only have disaster recovery capabilities into any of your AWS accounts, but also be able to actually protect against malware, or data loss from bad actors or whatever else, and there's huge value to that for consumers to have it out of their environment. And then the last part is, if you look at what happens in the enterprise, you have single file restores that occur constantly. Not full volume level restores, which snapshots give you the ability to do, and so Clumio has been able to index the data at a file level, have a Google search-like functionality, and be able to restore it to any of the accounts. So that full functionality that enterprises demand is really what we're trying to deliver in the public cloud as part of this offering. >> And, obviously you're in the marketplace today, or you're working on getting in the marketplace? >> We're not, we're working on it. >> Okay. >> We'll be a private listing. >> Okay, great. So, okay, so how's that work? So if I want to engage, I'm an AWS customer and I want to try out Clumio, how do I do that? >> Yeah, so engaging with our sales team, reach out to contacting us and we're happy to come out, show you a demo. The great part about SaaS is you can get up and running literally within 15 minutes, it's almost kind of comical. And we deploy a cloud connector in your environment, inventory the data, you decide what you want to backup. One of the cool parts too is that as you have more and more data sources across SaaS, private cloud, and public cloud, you can apply the same policies across all of them. So the power of that's really huge, to be able to define kind of consistent business practices across all of your data set. We're excited to talk to customers about it. >> And presumably, you can make it granular? I can, for one workload, I can have a different RPO, RTO than other workload? >> You can define by a whole bunch of different types, so in the cloud, everyone uses tags, everything's really defined by tags on the policy. In VMWare, it's more defined by cluster, or maybe foldering or those types. So we support all of them. So you can create different policies by different ways that the customers constructed their environment. >> Right. Okay, last thoughts on things you've seen at re:Invent this year that are exciting you, or? >> Wow, yeah, so many announcements, right, I think, just the pure velocity of innovation is exciting. And you know, it's hard to kind of put it into one thing. We were talking about this earlier, what's the big announcement, there's not one, there's, you know, 50. >> Yeah. >> So it's pretty exciting to see. >> There's a big theme of transformation, but Chadd, we'll leave it with you, you're the new kid on the block, exciting times for you guys. >> We're excited to be here, this show is like electric. You know, the scale of it, it's almost intimidating just walking around, but you know, we've been roaming around the booths just to see the amazing innovation, I think one of the coolest things is just people are able to develop quickly and bring value to customers and we're excited to continue to do that. The new round of funding will get us to really be able to expedite a lot of the data sources that we wanted to continue the platform on, and we're excited to be here next year even bigger with more and more stories to tell. >> All right, well Charlie, congratulations on the innovation that you're in, and Chadd, we're looking for good things from you guys. It's a very exciting time, so we appreciate you guys for coming on. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. All right, keep it right there everybody, we'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. Dave Vellante, for Justin Warren. You're watching theCUBE, from re:Invent 2019, in Las Vegas. We'll be right back. (upbeat outro music)

(techno music) >> From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this is a Cube conversation. >> Hi, and welcome to theCube studios for another Cube conversation, where we go in depth with thought leaders driving innovation across the tech industry. I'm your host, Peter Burris. The notion of data services has been around for a long time, but it is being up-ended, recast, reformed, as a consequence of what cloud can do. But that also means that cloud is creating new ways of thinking about data services, new opportunities to introduce and drive this powerful approach of thinking about digital businesses centralized assets and to have that conversation about what that means, we've got Chadd Kenney, who is a VP and chief technologist of Clumio with us today. Chad, welcome to theCube. >> Thanks so much for having me. >> Okay, so let's start with that notion of data services, and the role the cloud is going to play. Clumio has looked at this problem, or looked at this challenge from the ground up. What does that mean? >> So if you look at the cloud as a whole, customers have gone through a significant journey. We've seen the first shadow IT kind of play out, where the people decided to go to the cloud, IT was too slow. It moved into kind of a cloud first movement, where people realized the power of cloud services. That then got them to understand a little bit of interesting things that have played out. One, moving applications as they exist were not very efficient, and so they needed to re-architect certain applications. Second, SaaS was a core way of getting to the cloud in a very simplistic fashion without having to do much whatsoever, and so for applications that were not core competencies, they realized they should go Saas and for anything that was a core competency, they needed to really re-architect to be able to take advantage of those very powerful cloud services. And so when you look at it, if people were to develop applications today, cloud is the default that you'd go toward. And so for us, we had the luxury of building from the cloud up on the very powerful cloud services to enable a much more simple model for our customers to consume, but even more so, to be able to actually leverage the agility and elasticity of the cloud. Think about this for a quick second, we can take facilities, break them up, expand them across many different compute resources within the cloud, versus having to take kind of what you did on-prem in a single server, or multitudes of servers, and try to plant that in the cloud. From a customer's experience perspective, it's vastly different. You get a world where you don't think about how you manage the infrastructure, how you manage the service, you just consume it, and the value that customers get out of that, is not only getting their data there, which is the on-ramp around our data protection mechanisms, but also being able to leverage cloud-native services on top of that data in the longer term, as we have this one common global index and platform. What we are super excited today to announce is that we are adding in AWS native capabilities to be able to protect that data in the public cloud. And this is kind of the default place where most people go to from a cloud perspective, to really get their applications up and running and take advantage of a lot of those cloud-native services. >> Well, if you're going to be cloud native and promise to customers is you are going to support their workload, you've got to be, obviously, on AWS. So congratulations on that. Let's go back to this notion of, you used the word powerful. AWS is a mature platform. GCP is coming along very rapidly. Azure is, you know, also very, very good, and there are others as well, but sometimes enterprises discover that they have to make some trade-offs. To get the simplicity, they have to get less function. To get the reliability, they have to get rid of simplicity. How does Clumio think through those trade-offs to deliver that simple, that powerful, that reliable platform for something as important as data protection and data services in general? >> So we wanted to create an experience that was single click, discover everything, and be able to help people consume that service quickly. And if you look at the problem that people are dealing with, customers talk to us about this all the time is the power of the cloud resulted in 100s if not 1000s of accounts within AWS. And now you get into a world where you are having to try to figure out how to I manage all these for one, discover all of it, and consistently make sure that my data, which as you mentioned, is incredibly important to businesses today, is protected. And so having that one common view is incredibly important to start with. And the simplicity of that is immensely powerful. When you look at what we do as a business to make sure that that continues to occur is first we leverage cloud-native services on the back, which are complex, and getting those things to run and orchestrate are things that we build on the back-end. On the front-end, we take the customer's view in looking at what is the most simple way of getting this experience to occur for both discovery, as well as, you know backup, recovery, and even being able to search in a global fashion. And so really taking their seats to figure out what would be the easiest way to both consume the service and then also be able to get value from it by running that service. >> AWS has been around, well, AWS in many respects founded the cloud industry. It is certainly sales force on the Saas side, but AWS was that first company to make the promise that it was going to provide this very flexible, very powerful, very agile infrastructure as a service. And they have done an absolutely marvelous job about it. And they have also advanced the state of the art of the technology dramatically and in many respects are in the driver's seat. What trade-offs, what limits does your new platform face as it goes to AWS or is it the same Clumio experience adding now all of the capabilities of AWS? >> That's a great question because I think a lot of solutions out there today are different parts and pieces kind of clumped together. What we built is a platform that these new services just get instantly added, next time you log in to that service, you will see that available to you, and you can just go ahead and log in to your accounts and be able to discover directly. And I think that the power of SaaS is really that. Not only have we made it immensely secure, which is something that people think about quite a bit, with having not only data in flight but data at rest encryption, and leveraging really the cloud capabilities of security, but we have made it incredibly simple for them to be able to consume that easily, literally not lift a finger to get anything done, it's available for you when you log into that system. And so, having more and more data sources in one single pane of glass, and being able to see all of the accounts, especially in AWS where you have quite a few of those accounts, and to be able to apply polices in a consistent fashion to ensure that you are, you know, compliant within the environment for whatever business requirements that you have around data protection, is immensely powerful to our customers. >> Chadd Kenney, chief technologist, Clumio, thanks very much for being on theCube. >> Thank you. >> And thanks for joining us for another Cube conversation. I'm Peter Burris, see you next time. (techno music)

>>from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley. Palo ALTO, California It is a cute conversation. >>Hi, and welcome to the Cube studios for another cube conversation where we go in depth with thought leaders driving innovation across the tech industry. I'm your host, Peter Burroughs. The difference between business and digital business is simple. It's the role that data plays in a digital business. It's an asset that drives business innovation that drives customer experience and drives profitability in an otherwise business. It's not. It's something that's just associate with applications, But that's why traditional businesses are transforming to make better use of data. As businesses start to invest in date as an asset, they need to invest in the capabilities that take care of data's an asset. And that's one of the major challenges at all enterprises face today. It's an extremely hot domain, but not all options take full advantage of the cloud. And what does that mean? What does it mean to have a set of data protection data management capabilities be fully embedded with Cloud and Native Cloud Service's To have that conversation, we've got John Kumar, who is the CEO and co founder of clue meal with us today. John. Welcome to the show. >>Thank you. Very nice to be here. >>So give us the update. Include me. Oh, >>so come you. Ah, two year old company, right? We dress recently launched out of stealth. So so far, you know, we we came out with the innovative offering which is a sass solution to go and protect on premises in November and vmc environments. That's what we launch out of style two months ago. We want our best of show. When we came out off Stilton in November 20 >>19. >>But ultimately we started with a vision about protecting data respective off, buried, recites. So it was all about you know, you know, on premises on Cloud and other SAS service is so one single service that protects data introspective about recites So far we executed on on premises VM wear and Vmc Today What we're announcing for the first time is our protection to go and protect applications natively built on aws. So these are application that ineptitude natively built on aws that clue me in as a service will protect respective off. You know them running, you know, in one region or cross region cross accounts and a single service little our customers to protect native AWS applications. The other big announcement we're making is a new round of financing, and that is testament to the interest in the space and the innovative nature off the platform that we have built. So when we came out of still, we announced we had raised two rounds of financing, $51 million in series and Series B round of financing. Today, what we're announcing is a serious see around the financing off $135 million the largest. I would say Siri, see financing for a sass and the price company, especially a company that's a little over two years >>old. Look, graduations that's gonna buy a lot of new technology and a lot of customer engagement. >>But what customers is a set up from where customers are really looking for is they're looking for >>tooling and methods and capabilities that allow them to treat their data differently. Talk a bit about the central importance of data and how it's driving decisions. ACLU Mia. >>Yes, so fundamentally. You know, when we built out the data platform, it was about going after the data protection as the first use case in the platform. Longer term, the journey really is to go from a data protection company to a data management company. And this is possible for the first time because you have the public cloud on your side. If you're truly built a platform for the cloud on the public cloud, you have this distinct and want a JJ off. Now, taking the data that you're protecting and really leveraging it for other service is that you can enable the enterprise for and this is exactly what and the prices are asking for, especially as they, you know, you make a transition from on premises. So the public cloud where they're powering on more and more applications in the public cloud and they really, you know, sometimes have no idea in terms of where the data is sitting and how they can take advantage off all these data sources that ultimately clueless protecting >>well, no idea where the data sitting take advantage of these data. Sources presumably facilitate new classes of integration. That's how you generate value out of data that suggests that we're not just looking at protection as >>crucially important as it is, we're looking at new classes of service. Is that >>gonna make it possible to alter the way you think about data management? If I got that right and >>what are those in service is? >>Yes, it's a journey, as I said, very starting with an organ data protection. It's also about doing there the protection across multiple clouds, right? So ultimately, were a platform. Even though we're announcing, you know, aws, you know, applications support today. We've already done the Emperor and BMC As we go along. You'll see us kind of doing this across multiple clouds. So an application that's built on the cloud running across multiple clouds AWS, azure and DCP whatever it might be, you'll see it's kind of doing there, the protection across in applications in multiple clouds. And then it's about going and saying, you know, can we take advantage of the data that we're protecting and really power on adjacent use cases? They could be security use cases because we know exactly what's changing when it's changing. There could be infrastructure and let excuse cases because people are running tens of thousands off instances and containers and envy EMS in the public cloud on. If a problem happens, nobody really knows what caused it. And we have all the data and we can kind off, you know, index it in the back end and lies in the back end without the customer needing to lift a finger and really show them what happened in their environment that they didn't know about right. So there's a lot of interesting use cases that get powered on because you have the ability to index all the data year. You have the ability to essentially look at all the changes that are happening and really give that visibility. Tow the end customer and all of this one click and automating it without the customer needing to do much. >>I will tell you this that we've talked to a number of customers of Romeo and the fundamental choice. The clue. Meo choice was simplicity. How are you going to sustain that even as you have these new classes of service is >>that is the key right? And that is about the foundation we have built at the end of the day, right? So if you look at all of our customers that have on border today. It's really the experience where in less than 15 minutes they can essentially start enjoying the power of the platform and the back in that we have built. And the focus on design that we have is ultimately why we're able to do this with simplicity. So so when when we when we think about you know all the things we do in the back, and there's obviously a lot of complexity in the back end because it is a complex platform. But every time we ask ourselves the question that okay from a customer perspective, how do we make sure that it is one click and easy for them? So that focus and that attention to detail that we have behind the scenes to make sure that the customer ultimately should just consumed the service and should not need to do anything more than what they absolutely need to do so that they can essentially focus on work, adds value to the business, >>takes a lot of technology, a lot of dedication to make complex things really simple? Absolutely. John Kumar, CEO and co founder of Coolio. Thanks very much for being on the Cube. Thank you. Bigger and thanks for joining us for another cube conversation on Peter Burress. See you next time

>>from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley. Palo ALTO, California It is a cute conversation. >>Hi, and welcome to the Cube Studios for another cube conversation where we go in depth with thought leaders driving innovation across the tech industry. I'm your host, Peter Boris. Everybody's talking about the cloud and with the cloud might be able to do for their business. The challenge is there are a limited number of people in the world who really understands what it means to build for the cloud utilizing the cloud. It's a lot of approximations out there, but not a lot of folks are deeply involved in actually doing it right. We've got one here with us today. Wound Junk is thesis CEO and co founder of Clue Meo Womb. Welcome to the Cube. >>Happy to be here. >>So let's start with this issue of what it means to build for the cloud. Now Lou Meows made the decision to have everything fit into that as a service model. What does that practically need? >>So from the engineering point of view, building our sauce application is fundamentally different. So the way that I'll go and say is that at Cuneo. We actually don't build software and ship software. What we actually do, it builds service and service is what you're actually shipped our customers. Uh, let me give you an example. In the case of Kun, you they say backups fail like so far sometimes fails. We get that failures too. The difference in between Clooney oh, and traditional solutions is that if something were to fail, we are they one detecting that failure before our customers do Not only that, when something fails, we actually know exactly why it failed. Therefore, we can actually troubleshoot it, and we can actually fix it and operate the service without the customer intervention. So it's not about the books also or about the troubleshooting aspect, but it's also about new features. If you were to introduce a new features, we can actually do this without having customers upgraded call. We will actually do it ourselves. So essentially it frees the customers from actually doing all these actions because we will do them on behalf of them >>at scale. And I think that's the second thing I want to talk about quickly. Is that the ability to use the cloud to do many of the things that you're talking about at scale creates incredible ranges of options that customers have at their disposal. So, for example, a W s customers of historically using like snapshots to provide ah modicum of data protection to their AWS workloads. But there are other new options that could be applied if the systems are built to supply them. Give us a sense of how clue Meal is looking at this question of, you know, snapshots were something else. >>Yes, so, basically, traditionally, even on their own prints, out of the things you have something called the snapshots and you had your backups right, and they're they're fundamentally different. But if you actually shift your gears and you look at what A. W S offers today, they actually offers the ability for you to take snapshots. But actually that's not a backup, right? And they're they're fundamentally different. So let's talk about it a little bit more what it means to be snapshots and a backup. Right? So they say, there's a bad actor and your account gets compromised like your AWS account gets compromised. So then the bad actor has access not only to the EBS volumes, but also to the snap shows. What that means is that that person can actually go in and delete the E. V s volume as well as the TVs. No options. Now, If you had a backup, let's say you are should take a backup of that TVs William to whom? You, that bad actor would have access to the CVS volumes. However, it won't be able to delete the backup that we actually have, including you. So in the whole thing. The idea off Romeo is that you should be able to protect all of your assets, that being either an on Prem or neither of us by setting up a single policies. And these are true backups and not just snapshots. >>And that leads to the last question I have, which is ultimately the ability to introduce thes capabilities. At scale creates a lot of new opportunities that customers can utilize to do a better job of building applications, but also, I presume, managing how they use AWS because snapshots and other types of service can expand dramatically, which can increase your cost. How is doing it better with things like native backup service is improve customers ability to administer the AWS spend and accounts. >>So great question. So, essentially, if you look at the enterprises today, obviously they have multiple on premise data centers and also a different car providers that they use like AWS and azure and also a few sauce applications. Right? So then the idea is for Camilo is to create this single platform. What? All of the stains can actually be backed up in a uniform way where you can actually manage all of them. And then the other thing is all doing it in the cloud. So if you think about it, if you don't solve the problem, fundamental in the car, their stings that you end up paying later on. So let's take an example. Right. Uh, moving bites moving bites in between one server to the other, traditionally basically moving bites from one rack to the other. It was always free. You never had to pay anything for that. >>Certainly in the data center, >>right? But if you actually go to the public cloud, you cannot say the same thing, right? Basically, moving by across AWS recent regions is not free anymore. Moving data from AWS to the on premises. That's not for either. So these are all the things that any, you know, cop provider service provider, because has to consider and actually solved so that the customers can on Lee back it up into Clem you. But then they actually can leverage different cloud providers, you know, in a seamless way, without having to worry all of this costs associated with it so criminal we should be able to back it up. But we should be able to also offer mobility in between either aws back up the M word or the M. C. >>So if I can kind of summarize what you just said that you want to be able to provide to an account to an enterprise the ability to not have to worry about the back and infrastructure from a technical and process standpoint, but not also have to worry so much about the back and infrastructure from a cost of financial standpoint that by providing a service and then administering how that service is optimally handled, the customer doesn't have to think about some of those financial considerations of moving data around in the same way that they used to have. I got that right? >>I absolutely yes. Basically multiple accounts, multiple regions, multiple couple providers. It is extremely hard to manage. What come you does? It will actually provide you a single pane of glass where you can actually manage them all. But then, if you actually think about just and manageability this actually you can actually do that by just building a management layer on top of it. But more importantly, you really need to have a single data repository for you. For us to be able to provide a true mobility in between them. One is about managing. But the other thing is about if you're done, if you're done with the real divide way, it provides you the belly to move them and leverages the cloud power so that you don't have to worry about the cloud expenses but whom you internally is the one that actually optimizing all of this for our customers. >>Wound young cto and co founder of Cleo. Thanks very much for being on the Q. Thank you. And thank you for joining us for another cube conversation. I'm Peter Bursts. See you next time

>>from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley. Palo ALTO, California It is a cute conversation. >>Welcome to another wicked bond digital community event, this one sponsored by Clue Me. Oh, I'm your host, Peter Burroughs. Any business that aspires to be a digital business needs to think about its data differently. It needs to think about how data could be applied to customer experience, value propositions, operations and improve profitability and strategic options for the businesses that moves forward. But that means openly, either. We're thinking about how we embed data more deeply into our operations. That means we must also think about how we're going to protect that data. So the business is not suffer because someone got a hold of our data or corrupted our data or that system just failed and we needed to restore that data very quickly. Now what we want to be able to do is we're going to do that in a way that's natural and looks a lot like a cloud because we want that cloud experience in our data protection as well. So that's we're gonna talk about with Clue Meo Today, a lot of folks think in terms of moving all the data into the cloud. We think increasingly we have to recognize the cloud is not a strategy for centralizing data but rather distributing data and being able to protect that data where it is utilizing a simple, common cloudlike experience has become an increasingly central competitive need for a lot of digital enterprises. The first conversation we had was with poo John Kamar, who John is a CEO and co founder of Cuneo. Let's hear a Peugeot on had to say about data value. Data service is and clue Meo. John, Welcome to the show. >>Thank you. Very nice to be here. >>So give us the update. Include me. Oh, >>so come you. Ah, a two year old company, right? We dress recently launched out of stealth. So so far, you know, we we came out with the innovative offering which is a sass solution to go and protect on premises in November and vmc environments. That's what we launched out of style two months ago. We want our best of show. When we came out off Stilton in November 2019. But ultimately we started with a vision about protecting data respective off buried, recites So it was all about, you know, you know, on premises on Cloud and other SAS service is so one single service that protects data introspective about recites So far, we executed on on premises VM wear and Vmc. Today What we're announcing for the first time is our protection to go and protect applications natively built on aws. So these are application that ineptitude natively built on aws that clue me in as a service will protect respective off. You know them running, you know, in one region or cross region cross accounts and a single service little our customers to protect native AWS applications. The other big announcement we're making is a new round of financing, and that is testament to the interest in the space and the innovative nature off the platform that we have built. So when we came out of still, we announced we had raised two rounds of financing $51 million in series and series B round of financing. Today, what we're announcing is a serious see around the financing off $135 million the largest. I would say Siri see financing for a sass and the price company, especially a company that's a little over two years >>old. Look, graduations that's gonna buy a lot of new technology and a lot of customer engagement. But what customers is a set up from where customers are really looking for is they're looking for tooling and methods and capabilities that allow them to treat their data differently. Talk a bit about the central importance of data and how it's driving decisions. ACLU mia >>Yes, so fundamentally. You know, when we built out the data platform, it was about going after the data protection as the first use case in the platform. Longer term, the journey really is to go from a data protection company to a data management company, and this is possible for the first time because you have the public cloud on your side. If you're truly built a platform for the cloud on the public cloud, you have this distinct and want a JJ off. Now, taking the data that you're protecting and really leveraging it for other service is that you can enable the enterprise for, and this is exactly what and the prices are asking for, especially as they you know, you make a transition from on premises. So the public cloud where they're powering on more and more applications in the public cloud and they really, you know, sometimes have no idea in terms off where the data is sitting and how they can take advantage off all these data sources that ultimately clueless protecting >>Well, no idea where the data sitting take advantage of these data. Sources presumably facilitate new classes of integration because that's how you generate value out of data. That suggests that we're not just looking at protection as crucially important as it is we're looking at new classes of service is they're gonna make it possible to alter the way you think about data management. If I got that right and what are those in service is? >>Yes, it's It's a journey, As I said, very starting with Finnegan Data protection. It's also about doing there the protection across multiple clouds, right? So ultimately we had a platform. Even though we're announcing, you know, aws, you know, applications support. Today. We've already done the ember and BMC as we go along. You'll see us kind of doing this across multiple clouds, an application that's built on the cloud running across multiple clouds, AWS, Azure and DCP. Whatever it might be, you see, it's kind of doing there, the protection across in applications and multiple clouds. And then it's about going and saying, Can we take advantage of the data that we're protecting and really power on adjusting to use cases, they could be security use cases because we know exactly what's changing when it's changing. There could be infrastructure. Analytics use cases because people are running tens of thousands off instances and containers and envy EMS in the public cloud. And if a problem happens, nobody really knows what caused it. And we have all the data and we can kind off index it in the back end and lies in the back end without the customer needing to lift a finger and really show them what happened in their environment that didn't know about right. So there's a lot of interesting use cases that get powered on because you have the ability to index all the data year. You have the ability to essentially look at all the changes that are happening and really give that visibility. Tow the end customer and all of this one click and automating it without the customer needing to do much. >>I will tell you this that we've talked to a number of customers of Romeo and the fundamental choice. The clue. Meo choice was simplicity. How are you going to sustain that? Even as you have these new classes of service is >>that is the key right? And that is about the foundation we have built at the end of the day, right? So if you look at all of our customers that have on border today, it's really the experience where in less than 15 minutes they can essentially start enjoying the power of the platform and the back end that we have built. And the focus on design that we have is ultimately why we're able to do this with simplicity. So so when when we when we think about you know all the things we do in the back, and there's obviously a lot of complexity in the back end because it is a complex platform. But every time we ask ourselves the question that okay from a customer perspective, how do we make sure that it is one click and easy for them? So that focus and that attention to detail that we have behind the scenes to make sure that the customer ultimately should just consumed the service and should not need to do anything more than what they absolutely need to do so that they can essentially focus on what eggs value to the business >>takes a lot of technology, a lot of dedication to make complex things really simple. Absolutely. John Kumar, CEO and co founder of Coolio. Thanks very much for being on the Cube. Thank you. Great conversation with you, John. Data value leading to data service is now. Let's think a little bit more about how enterprises ultimately need to start thinking about how to manifest that in a cloud rich world, Chad Kenney is the vice president and chief acknowledges a Cuneo and Chad and I had an opportunity to sit down to talk about some of the interesting approach. Is that air possible because of cloud and very importantly, to talk about a new announcement that clue me is making as they expand their support of different cloud types? What's your Chad had to say? The notion of data service is has been around for a long time, but it's being upended, recast, reformed as a consequence of what cloud can do. But that also means that Cloud is creating new ways of thinking about data service. Is new opportunities to introduce and drive this powerful approach of thinking about digital businesses centralized assets and to have that conversation about what that means. We've got Chad Candy, who's a VP and chief technologist of Kumiko with us today. Chad, welcome to the Cube. >>Thanks so much for having me. >>Okay, so what? Start with that notion of data service is and the role because gonna play clue. Meo has looked at this problem or looked this challenge from the ground up. What does that mean? >>So if you look at the cloud is a whole customers have gone through a significant journey. We've seen you know that the first shadow I t kind of play out where people decided to go to the cloud I t was too slow. It moved into kind of a cloud first movement where people realize the power of cloud service is that then got them to understand a little bit of interesting things that played out one moving applications as they exist. We're not very efficient, and so they needed to re architect certain applications. Second, SAS was a core way of getting to the cloud in a very simplistic fashion without having to do much of whatsoever. And so, for applications that were not core competencies, they realized they should go sass. And for anything that was a core competency, they needed to really re architect to be able to take advantage of those very powerful cloud service is. And so when you look at it, if people were to develop applications today, cloud is the default. They'd go tours. And so for us, we had the luxury of building from the cloud up on these very powerful cloud service is to enable a much more simple model for our customers to consume. But even more so to be able to actually leverage the agility and elasticity of the cloud. Think about this for a quick second. We can take facilities, break them up, expand them across many different compute resource is within the cloud versus having to take kind of what you did on prim in a single server or multitudes of servers and try to plant that in the cloud from a customer's experience perspective. It's vastly different. You get a world where you don't think about how you manage the infrastructure, how you manage the service, you just consume it. And the value that customers get out of that is not only getting their data there, which is the on ramp around our data protection mechanisms, but also being able to leverage cloud. Native service is on top of that data in the longer term, as we have this one comment global index and platform. What we're super excited today to announce is that we're adding in eight of US native capabilities to be ableto protect that data in the public cloud. And this is kind of the default place where most people go to from a cloud perspective to really get their applications are up and running and take advantage of a lot of those cloud. Native service is >>well, if you're gonna be Claude native and promised to customers is going to support There were clothes. You've got to be obviously on eight of us, So congratulations on that. But let's go back to this notion of you use the word powerful 80 of the U. S. Is a mature platform, G C P is coming along very rapidly. Azure is also very, very good. There are others as well, but sometimes enterprises discover that they have to make some tradeoffs. To get the simplicity, they have to get less function, to get the reliability they have to get rid of simplicity. How does clue Meo think through those trade offs to deliver that simple? That powerful, that reliable platform for something is important. Data protection and data service is in general, >>so we wanted to create an experience that was single click, discover everything and be able to help people consume that service quickly. And if you look at the problem that people are dealing with a customer's talk to us about this all time is the power of the cloud resulted in hundreds, if not thousands of accounts within eight of us. And now you get into a world where you're having to try to figure out how did I manage all of these for one? Discover all of it and consistently make sure that my data, which, as you've mentioned, is incredibly important to businesses today as protected. And so having that one common view is incredibly important to start with, and the simplicity of that is immensely powerful. When you look at what we do as a business, to make sure that that continues to occur is first, we leverage cloud. Native Service is on the back, which are complex, and getting those things to run and orchestrate are things that we build on the back end on the front end. We take the customers view and looking at what is the most simple way of getting this experience to occur for both discovery as well as you know, backup recovery and even being able to search in a global fashion and so really taking their seats to figure out what would be the easiest way to both consume the service and then also be able to get value from it by running that service >>A W s has been around well, a ws in many respects founded the cloud industry. It's it's certainly sales force on the South side. But a W. S is the first company to make the promise that it was gonna provide this very flexible, very powerful, very agile infrastructures of service. And they've done absolutely marvelous job about it, and they've also advanced the stadium to the technology dramatically and in many respects, are in the driver's seat. What tradeoffs? What limits does your new platform faces? It goes to eight of us. Or is it the same Coolio experience, adding, Now all of the capabilities of eight of us? >>It's a great question. I think a lot of solutions out there today are different parts and pieces kind of club together. What we built is a platform that these new service is just get instantly added. Next time you log in to that service, you'll see that that available Thio and you could just go ahead and log in to your accounts and build to discover directly. And I think that the the power of sass is really that not only have we made it immensely secure, which is something that people think about quite a bit with having, you know, not only did in flight, but data at rest, encryption on and leveraging really the cloud capabilities of security. But we've made it incredibly simple for them to be able to consume that easily, literally not lift a finger to get anything done. It's available for you when you log into that system. And so having more and more data sources in one single pane of glass and being able to see all the accounts, especially in AWS, where you have quite a few of those accounts, and to be able to apply policies in a consistent fashion to ensure that your you know, compliant within the environment for whatever business requirements that you have around data protection is immensely powerful to our >>customers. Judd Jenny, chief technologist Clue me Oh, thanks very much for being on the Cube. Thank you. Great conversation. Chad especially interested in hearing about how Camilo is being extended to include eight of US service, is within its overall data protection approach and obviously into data service is let's take a little bit more into that clue. MEOWS actually generated and prepared a short video we could take a look at that goes a little bit more deeply into how this is all gonna work. >>Enterprises air moving rapidly to the cloud. Embracing sass for simplified delivery of key service is in this cloud centric world. I T teams could focus on more strategic work, accelerating digital transformation initiatives when it comes to backup. I t is stuck designing, patching and capacity planning for on Prem Systems. Snapshots alone for data protection in the public cloud is risky, and there are hundreds of unprotected SAS applications in the typical enterprise. Move to cloud should make backup simpler, but it can quickly become exponentially worse. It's time to rethink the backup experience. What if there were no hardware, software or virtual appliances to size, configure, manage or even by it all? And by adding enterprise backup, public cloud workloads are no longer exposed to accidental data Deletion and Ransomware and Clooney. Oh, we deliver secure data backup and recovery without any of that complexity or risk. We provide all of the critical functions of enterprise backup de Doop and scheduling user and key management and cataloging because were built in the public cloud, weaken rapidly, deliver new innovations and take advantage of inherent data security controls. Our mission is to protect your data wherever it's stored. The clue. Meo authentic SAS backup experience scales on demand to manage and protect your data more easily and efficiently. And without things like cloud bills or egress charges, Clooney oh gives you predictable costs. Monitor and global back of compliance is far simpler, and the built in always on security of clue. Meo means that your data is safe. Take advantage of the cloud for backup with no constraints. Clue. Meo Authentic sass for the Enterprise. >>Great video as we think about moving forward in the future and what customers are trying to do. We have to think more in terms of the native service is that cloud can provide and how to fully exploit them to increase the aggregate flexibility both within our enterprises, but also based on what our supplies have to offer. We had a great conversation with Runes Young, who is thesis CTO and co founder of Cuneo, about just that. Let's hear it wound had to say everybody's talking about the cloud and what the cloud might be able to do for their business. The challenge is there are a limited number of people in the world who really understands what it means to build for the cloud utilizing the cloud. It's a lot of approximations out there, but not a lot of folks are deeply involved in actually doing it right. We've got one here with us today, wound junk is thesis CEO and co founder of Clue Meo Womb. Welcome to the Cube. >>Happy to be here. >>So let's start with this issue of what it means to build for the cloud. Now Lou MEOWS made the decision to have everything fit into that as a service model. What is that practically need? >>So from the engineering point of view, building our sauce application is fundamentally different. So the way that I'll go and say is that at Cuneo we actually don't build software and ship software. What we actually do, it builds service and service is what you're actually shipped Our customers. Let me give you an example. In the case of Kun, you they say backups fail like so far sometimes fails. We get that failures too. The difference in between Clooney oh, and traditional solutions is that if something were to fail, we are they one detecting that failure before our customers do Not only that, when something fails, we actually know exactly why it failed. Therefore, we can actually troubleshoot it, and we can actually fix it and operate the service without the customer intervention. So it's not about the books also or about the troubleshooting aspect, but it's also about new features. If you were to introduce a new features, we can actually do this without having customers upgraded call. We will actually do it ourselves. So essentially it frees the customers from actually doing all these actions because we will do them on behalf of them >>at scale. And I think that's the second thing I want to talk about quickly. Is that the ability to use the cloud to do many of the things that you're talking about? At scale creates incredible ranges of options that customers have at their disposal. So, for example, a W s customers of historically used things like snapshots to provide ah modicum of data protection to their AWS workloads. But there are other new options that could be applied if the systems are built to supply them. Give us a sense of how clue Meal is looking at this question of, you know, snapshots were something else. >>Yes, So, basically, traditionally, even on the imprints, out of the things, you have something called the snapshots and you had your backups right, and they're they're fundamentally different. But if you actually shift your gears and you look at what A. W s offers today. They actually offers stability for you to take snapshots. But actually, that's not a backup, right, And they're fundamentally different. So let's talk about it a little bit more what it means to be snapshots and a backup, right? So they say, there's a bad actor and your account gets compromised like your AWS account gets compromised. So then the bad actor has access not only to the EBS volumes, but also to the snap shows. What that means is that that person can actually go in and delete the E. V s volume as well as the TVs nuptials. Now, if you had a backup, let's say you are should take a backup of that TVs William to whom you that bad actor would have access to the CVS volumes. However, it won't be able to delete the backup that we actually have, including you. So in the whole thing. The idea off Romeo is that you should be able to protect all of your assets, that being either an on Prem or neither of us by setting up a single policies. And these are true backups and not just snapshots >>and that leads to the last question I have, which is ultimately the ability to introduce thes capabilities. At scale creates a lot of new opportunities of customers can utilize to do a better job of building applications, but also, I presume, managing how they use AWS because snapshots and other types of service can expand dramatically, which can increase your cost. How is doing it better with things like Native Backup Service is improve customers ability to administer the AWS spend and accounts. >>So, great question. So, essentially, if you look at the enterprises today, obviously they have multiple on premise data centers and also a different car providers that they use like AWS and Azure and also a few SAS applications, Right? So then the idea is for Camilo is to create this single platform what all of the stains can actually be backed up in a uniform way where you can actually manage all of them. And then the other thing is all doing it in the cloud. So if you think about it, if you don't solve the problem, fundamental in the cow, their stings that you end up paying later on. So let's take an example. Right. Uh, moving bites. Moving bites in between one server to the other. Traditionally basically moving bites from one rack to the other. It was always free. You never had to pay anything for that. >>Certainly in the data center. >>Right? But if you actually go to the public cloud, you cannot say the same thing, right? Basically, moving by across AWS recent regions is not free anymore. Moving data from AWS to the on premises. That's not for either. So these are all the things that you know cop provider service providers are gods has to consider and actually solved so that the customers can on Lee back it up into come you. But then they actually can leverage different cloud providers, you know, in a seamless way, without having to worry all of this costs associated with it so criminal we should be able to back it up. But we should be able to also offer mobility in between either aws back up the M word or the M C. >>So if I can kind of summarize what you just said that you want to be able to provide to an account to an enterprise, the ability to not have to worry about the back and infrastructure from a technical and process standpoint, but not also have to worry so much about the back and infrastructure from a cost of financial standpoint that by providing a service and then administering how that service is optimally handled, the customer doesn't have to think about some of those financial considerations of moving get around in the same way that they used to. Have I got that right, >>I absolutely, yes, basically multiple accounts, multiple regions, multiple couple providers. It is extremely hard to manage. What come your does. It will actually provide you a single pane of glass where you can actually manage them all. But then, if you actually think about just and manageability this, actually you can actually do that by just building a management layer on top of it. But more importantly, you really need to have a single data repository for you. For us to be able to provide a true mobility in between them. One is about managing, but the other thing is about if you're done, if you're done in the real divide way, it provides you the ability to move them and leverages the cloud power so that you don't have to worry about the cloud expenses but whom you internally is the one that actually optimizing all of this for our customers. >>Wound young cto and co founder of Coolio. Thanks very much for being on the Q. Thank you. Thanks very much. Room I want to thank clue me Oh, for providing this important content about the increasingly important evolution of data protection Cloud. Now, here's your opportunity to weigh in on this crucially important arena. What do you think about this evolving relationship? How do you foresee it operating in your enterprise? What comments do you have? What questions do you have of the thought leaders from Clue Me? Oh, and elsewhere. That's what we gonna do now we're gonna go into the crowd chat. We're gonna hear from each other about this really important topic and what you foresee in your enterprise as your digital business transforms, it's crochet

>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston bringing you data driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is breaking analysis with Dave Vellante. >> The term Supercloud is somewhat new, but the concepts behind it have been bubbling for years, early last decade when NIST put forth a definition of cloud computing it said services had to be accessible over a public network essentially cutting the on-prem crowd out of the cloud conversation. Now a guy named Chuck Hollis, who was a field CTO at EMC at the time and a prolific blogger objected to that criterion and laid out his vision for what he termed a private cloud. Now, in that post, he showed a workload running both on premises and in a public cloud sharing the underlying resources in an automated and seamless manner. What later became known more broadly as hybrid cloud that vision as we now know, really never materialized, and we were left with multi-cloud sets of largely incompatible and disconnected cloud services running in separate silos. The point is what Hollis laid out, IE the ability to abstract underlying infrastructure complexity and run workloads across multiple heterogeneous estates with an identical experience is what super cloud is all about. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibon cube insights powered by ETR and this breaking analysis. We share what we hope to learn from super cloud 22 next week, next Tuesday at 9:00 AM Pacific. The community is gathering for Supercloud 22 an inclusive pilot symposium hosted by theCUBE and made possible by VMware and other founding partners. It's a one day single track event with more than 25 speakers digging into the architectural, the technical, structural and business aspects of Supercloud. This is a hybrid event with a live program in the morning running out of our Palo Alto studio and pre-recorded content in the afternoon featuring industry leaders, technologists, analysts and investors up and down the technology stack. Now, as I said up front the seeds of super cloud were sewn early last decade. After the very first reinvent we published our Amazon gorilla post, that scene in the upper right corner here. And we talked about how to differentiate from Amazon and form ecosystems around industries and data and how the cloud would change IT permanently. And then up in the upper left we put up a post on the old Wikibon Wiki. Yeah, it used to be a Wiki. Check out my hair by the way way no gray, that's how long ago this was. And we talked about in that post how to compete in the Amazon economy. And we showed a graph of how IT economics were changing. And cloud services had marginal economics that looked more like software than hardware at scale. And this would reset, we said opportunities for both technology sellers and buyers for the next 20 years. And this came into sharper focus in the ensuing years culminating in a milestone post by Greylock's Jerry Chen called Castles in the Cloud. It was an inspiration and catalyst for us using the term Supercloud in John Furrier's post prior to reinvent 2021. So we started to flesh out this idea of Supercloud where companies of all types build services on top of hyperscale infrastructure and across multiple clouds, going beyond multicloud 1.0, if you will, which was really a symptom, as we said, many times of multi-vendor at least that's what we argued. And despite its fuzzy definition, it resonated with people because they knew something was brewing, Keith Townsend the CTO advisor, even though he frankly, wasn't a big fan of the buzzy nature of the term Supercloud posted this awesome Blackboard on Twitter take a listen to how he framed it. Please play the clip. >> Is VMware the right company to make the super cloud work, term that Wikibon came up with to describe the taking of discreet services. So it says RDS from AWS, cloud compute engines from GCP and authentication from Azure to build SaaS applications or enterprise applications that connect back to your data center, is VMware's cross cloud vision 'cause it is just a vision today, the right approach. Or should you be looking towards companies like HashiCorp to provide this overall capability that we all agree, or maybe you don't that we need in an enterprise comment below your thoughts. >> So I really like that Keith has deep practitioner knowledge and lays out a couple of options. I especially like the examples he uses of cloud services. He recognizes the need for cross cloud services and he notes this capability is aspirational today. Remember this was eight or nine months ago and he brings HashiCorp into the conversation as they're one of the speakers at Supercloud 22 and he asks the community, what they think, the thing is we're trying to really test out this concept and people like Keith are instrumental as collaborators. Now I'm sure you're not surprised to hear that mot everyone is on board with the Supercloud meme, in particular Charles Fitzgerald has been a wonderful collaborator just by his hilarious criticisms of the concept. After a couple of super cloud posts, Charles put up his second rendition of "Supercloudifragilisticexpialidoucious". I mean, it's just beautiful, but to boot, he put up this picture of Baghdad Bob asking us to just stop, Bob's real name is Mohamed Said al-Sahaf. He was the minister of propaganda for Sadam Husein during the 2003 invasion of Iraq. And he made these outrageous claims of, you know US troops running in fear and putting down their arms and so forth. So anyway, Charles laid out several frankly very helpful critiques of Supercloud which has led us to really advance the definition and catalyze the community's thinking on the topic. Now, one of his issues and there are many is we said a prerequisite of super cloud was a super PaaS layer. Gartner's Lydia Leong chimed in saying there were many examples of successful PaaS vendors built on top of a hyperscaler some having the option to run in more than one cloud provider. But the key point we're trying to explore is the degree to which that PaaS layer is purpose built for a specific super cloud function. And not only runs in more than one cloud provider, Lydia but runs across multiple clouds simultaneously creating an identical developer experience irrespective of a state. Now, maybe that's what Lydia meant. It's hard to say from just a tweet and she's a sharp lady, so, and knows more about that market, that PaaS market, than I do. But to the former point at Supercloud 22, we have several examples. We're going to test. One is Oracle and Microsoft's recent announcement to run database services on OCI and Azure, making them appear as one rather than use an off the shelf platform. Oracle claims to have developed a capability for developers specifically built to ensure high performance low latency, and a common experience for developers across clouds. Another example we're going to test is Snowflake. I'll be interviewing Benoit Dageville co-founder of Snowflake to understand the degree to which Snowflake's recent announcement of an application development platform is perfect built, purpose built for the Snowflake data cloud. Is it just a plain old pass, big whoop as Lydia claims or is it something new and innovative, by the way we invited Charles Fitz to participate in Supercloud 22 and he decline saying in addition to a few other somewhat insulting things there's definitely interesting new stuff brewing that isn't traditional cloud or SaaS but branding at all super cloud doesn't help either. Well, indeed, we agree with part of that and we'll see if it helps advanced thinking and helps customers really plan for the future. And that's why Supercloud 22 has going to feature some of the best analysts in the business in The Great Supercloud Debate. In addition to Keith Townsend and Maribel Lopez of Lopez research and Sanjeev Mohan from former Gartner analyst and principal at SanjMo participated in this session. Now we don't want to mislead you. We don't want to imply that these analysts are hopping on the super cloud bandwagon but they're more than willing to go through the thought experiment and mental exercise. And, we had a great conversation that you don't want to miss. Maribel Lopez had what I thought was a really excellent way to think about this. She used TCP/IP as an historical example, listen to what she said. >> And Sanjeev Mohan has some excellent thoughts on the feasibility of an open versus de facto standard getting us to the vision of Supercloud, what's possible and what's likely now, again, I don't want to imply that these analysts are out banging the Supercloud drum. They're not necessarily doing that, but they do I think it's fair to say believe that something new is bubbling and whether it's called Supercloud or multicloud 2.0 or cross cloud services or whatever name you choose it's not multicloud of the 2010s and we chose Supercloud. So our goal here is to advance the discussion on what's next in cloud and Supercloud is meant to be a term to describe that future of cloud and specifically the cloud opportunities that can be built on top of hyperscale, compute, storage, networking machine learning, and other services at scale. And that is why we posted this piece on Answering the top 10 questions about Supercloud. Many of which were floated by Charles Fitzgerald and others in the community. Why does the industry need another term what's really new and different? And what is hype? What specific problems does Supercloud solve? What are the salient characteristics of Supercloud? What's different beyond multicloud? What is a super pass? Is it necessary to have a Supercloud? How will applications evolve on superclouds? What workloads will run? All these questions will be addressed in detail as a way to advance the discussion and help practitioners and business people understand what's real today. And what's possible with cloud in the near future. And one other question we'll address is who will build super clouds? And what new entrance we can expect. This is an ETR graphic that we showed in a previous episode of breaking analysis, and it lays out some of the companies we think are building super clouds or in a position to do so, by the way the Y axis shows net score or spending velocity and the X axis depicts presence in the ETR survey of more than 1200 respondents. But the key callouts to this slide in addition to some of the smaller firms that aren't yet showing up in the ETR data like Chaossearch and Starburst and Aviatrix and Clumio but the really interesting additions are industry players Walmart with Azure, Capital one and Goldman Sachs with AWS, Oracle, with Cerner. These we think are early examples, bubbling up of industry clouds that will eventually become super clouds. So we'll explore these and other trends to get the community's input on how this will all play out. These are the things we hope you'll take away from Supercloud 22. And we have an amazing lineup of experts to answer your question. Technologists like Kit Colbert, Adrian Cockcroft, Mariana Tessel, Chris Hoff, Will DeForest, Ali Ghodsi, Benoit Dageville, Muddu Sudhakar and many other tech athletes, investors like Jerry Chen and In Sik Rhee the analyst we featured earlier, Paula Hansen talking about go to market in a multi-cloud world Gee Rittenhouse talking about cloud security, David McJannet, Bhaskar Gorti of Platform9 and many, many more. And of course you, so please go to theCUBE.net and register for Supercloud 22, really lightweight reg. We're not doing this for lead gen. We're doing it for collaboration. If you sign in you can get the chat and ask questions in real time. So don't miss this inaugural event Supercloud 22 on August 9th at 9:00 AM Pacific. We'll see you there. Okay. That's it for today. Thanks for watching. Thank you to Alex Myerson who's on production and manages the podcast. Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight. They help get the word out on social media and in our newsletters. And Rob Hof is our editor in chief over at SiliconANGLE. Does some really wonderful editing. Thank you to all. Remember these episodes are all available as podcasts wherever you listen, just search breaking analysis podcast. I publish each week on wikibon.com and Siliconangle.com. And you can email me at David.Vellantesiliconangle.com or DM me at Dvellante, comment on my LinkedIn post. Please do check out ETR.AI for the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching. And we'll see you next week in Palo Alto at Supercloud 22 or next time on breaking analysis. (calm music)

>> From the theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is "Breaking Analysis" with Dave Vellante. >> Welcome to this week's Wikibon, theCUBE's insights powered by ETR. As we exited the isolation economy last year, supercloud is a term that we introduced to describe something new that was happening in the world of cloud. In this Breaking Analysis, we address the 10 most frequently asked questions we get around supercloud. Okay, let's review these frequently asked questions on supercloud that we're going to try to answer today. Look at an industry that's full of hype and buzzwords. Why the hell does anyone need a new term? Aren't hyperscalers building out superclouds? We'll try to answer why the term supercloud connotes something different from hyperscale clouds. And we'll talk about the problems that superclouds solve specifically. And we'll further define the critical aspects of a supercloud architecture. We often get asked, isn't this just multi-cloud? Well, we don't think so, and we'll explain why in this Breaking Analysis. Now in an earlier episode, we introduced the notion of super PaaS. Well, isn't a plain vanilla PaaS already a super PaaS? Again, we don't think so, and we'll explain why. Who will actually build and who are the players currently building superclouds? What workloads and services will run on superclouds? And 8-A or number nine, what are some examples that we can share of supercloud? And finally, we'll answer what you can expect next from us on supercloud? Okay, let's get started. Why do we need another buzzword? Well, late last year, ahead of re:Invent, we were inspired by a post from Jerry Chen called "Castles in the Cloud." Now in that blog post, he introduced the idea that there were sub-markets emerging in cloud that presented opportunities for investors and entrepreneurs that the cloud wasn't going to suck the hyperscalers. Weren't going to suck all the value out of the industry. And so we introduced this notion of supercloud to describe what we saw as a value layer emerging above the hyperscalers CAPEX gift, we sometimes call it. Now it turns out, that we weren't the only ones using the term as both Cornell and MIT have used the phrase in somewhat similar, but different contexts. The point is something new was happening in the AWS and other ecosystems. It was more than IaaS and PaaS, and wasn't just SaaS running in the cloud. It was a new architecture that integrates infrastructure, platform and software as services to solve new problems that the cloud vendors in our view, weren't addressing by themselves. It seemed to us that the ecosystem was pursuing opportunities across clouds that went beyond conventional implementations of multi-cloud. And we felt there was a structural change going on at the industry level, the supercloud, metaphorically was highlighting. So that's the background on why we felt a new catch phrase was warranted, love it or hate it. It's memorable and it's what we chose. Now to that last point about structural industry transformation. Andy Rappaport is sometimes and often credited with identifying the shift from the vertically integrated IBM mainframe era to the fragmented PC microprocesor-based era in his HBR article in 1991. In fact, it was David Moschella, who at the time was an IDC Analyst who first introduced the concept in 1987, four years before Rappaport's article was published. Moschella saw that it was clear that Intel, Microsoft, Seagate and others would replace the system vendors, and put that forth in a graphic that looked similar to the first two on this chart. We don't have to review the shift from IBM as the center of the industry to Wintel, that's well understood. What isn't as well known or accepted is what Moschella put out in his 2018 book called "Seeing Digital" which introduced the idea of "The Matrix" that's shown on the right hand side of this chart. Moschella posited that new services were emerging built on top of the internet and hyperscale clouds that would integrate other innovations and would define the next era of computing. He used the term Matrix because the conceptual depiction included not only horizontal technology rose like the cloud and the internet, but for the first time included connected industry verticals, the columns in this chart. Moschella pointed out that whereas historically, industry verticals had a closed value chain or stack and ecosystem of R&D, and production, and manufacturing, and distribution. And if you were in that industry, the expertise within that vertical generally stayed within that vertical and was critical to success. But because of digital and data, for the first time, companies were able to traverse industries, jump across industries and compete because data enabled them to do that. Examples, Amazon and content, payments, groceries, Apple, and payments, and content, and so forth. There are many examples. Data was now this unifying enabler and this marked a change in the structure of the technology landscape. And supercloud is meant to imply more than running in hyperscale clouds, rather it's the combination of multiple technologies enabled by CloudScale with new industry participants from those verticals, financial services and healthcare, manufacturing, energy, media, and virtually all in any industry. Kind of an extension of every company is a software company. Basically, every company now has the opportunity to build their own cloud or supercloud. And we'll come back to that. Let's first address what's different about superclouds relative to hyperscale clouds? You know, this one's pretty straightforward and obvious, I think. Hyperscale clouds, they're walled gardens where they want your data in their cloud and they want to keep you there. Sure, every cloud player realizes that not all data will go to their particular cloud so they're meeting customers where their data lives with initiatives like Amazon Outposts and Azure Arc, and Google Anthos. But at the end of the day, the more homogeneous they can make their environments, the better control, security, cost, and performance they can deliver. The more complex the environment, the more difficult it is to deliver on their brand promises. And of course, the lesser margin that's left for them to capture. Will the hyperscalers get more serious about cross-cloud services? Maybe, but they have plenty of work to do within their own clouds and within enabling their own ecosystems. They had a long way to go a lot of runway. So let's talk about specifically, what problems superclouds solve? We've all seen the stats from IDC or Gartner, or whomever the customers on average use more than one cloud. You know, two clouds, three clouds, five clouds, 20 clouds. And we know these clouds operate in disconnected silos for the most part. And that's a problem because each cloud requires different skills because the development environment is different as is the operating environment. They have different APIs, different primitives, and different management tools that are optimized for each respective hyperscale cloud. Their functions and value props don't extend to their competitors' clouds for the most part. Why would they? As a result, there's friction when moving between different clouds. It's hard to share data, it's hard to move work. It's hard to secure and govern data. It's hard to enforce organizational edicts and policies across these clouds, and on-prem. Supercloud is an architecture designed to create a single environment that enables management of workloads and data across clouds in an effort to take out complexity, accelerate application development, streamline operations and share data safely, irrespective of location. It's pretty straightforward, but non-trivial, which is why I always ask a company's CEO and executives if stock buybacks and dividends will yield as much return as building out superclouds that solve really specific and hard problems, and create differential value. Okay, let's dig a bit more into the architectural aspects of supercloud. In other words, what are the salient attributes of supercloud? So first and foremost, a supercloud runs a set of specific services designed to solve a unique problem and it can do so in more than one cloud. Superclouds leverage the underlying cloud native tooling of a hyperscale cloud, but they're optimized for a specific objective that aligns with the problem that they're trying to solve. For example, supercloud might be optimized for lowest cost or lowest latency, or sharing data, or governing, or securing that data, or higher performance for networking, for example. But the point is, the collection of services that is being delivered is focused on a unique value proposition that is not being delivered by the hyperscalers across clouds. A supercloud abstracts the underlying and siloed primitives of the native PaaS layer from the hyperscale cloud and then using its own specific platform as a service tooling, creates a common experience across clouds for developers and users. And it does so in a most efficient manner, meaning it has the metadata knowledge and management capabilities that can optimize for latency, bandwidth, or recovery, or data sovereignty, or whatever unique value that supercloud is delivering for the specific use case in their domain. And a supercloud comprises a super PaaS capability that allows ecosystem partners through APIs to add incremental value on top of the supercloud platform to fill gaps, accelerate features, and of course innovate. The services can be infrastructure-related, they could be application services, they could be data services, security services, user services, et cetera, designed and packaged to bring unique value to customers. Again, that hyperscalers are not delivering across clouds or on-premises. Okay, so another common question we get is, isn't that just multi-cloud? And what we'd say to that is yes, but no. You can call it multi-cloud 2.0, if you want, if you want to use it, it's kind of a commonly used rubric. But as Dell's Chuck Whitten proclaimed at Dell Technologies World this year, multi-cloud by design, is different than multi-cloud by default. Meaning to date, multi-cloud has largely been a symptom of what we've called multi-vendor or of M&A, you buy a company and they happen to use Google Cloud, and so you bring it in. And when you look at most so-called, multi-cloud implementations, you see things like an on-prem stack, which is wrapped in a container and hosted on a specific cloud or increasingly a technology vendor has done the work of building a cloud native version of their stack and running it on a specific cloud. But historically, it's been a unique experience within each cloud with virtually no connection between the cloud silos. Supercloud sets out to build incremental value across clouds and above hyperscale CAPEX that goes beyond cloud compatibility within each cloud. So if you want to call it multi-cloud 2.0, that's fine, but we chose to call it supercloud. Okay, so at this point you may be asking, well isn't PaaS already a version of supercloud? And again, we would say no, that supercloud and its corresponding superPaaS layer which is a prerequisite, gives the freedom to store, process and manage, and secure, and connect islands of data across a continuum with a common experience across clouds. And the services offered are specific to that supercloud and will vary by each offering. Your OpenShift, for example, can be used to construct a superPaaS, but in and of itself, isn't a superPaaS, it's generic. A superPaaS might be developed to support, for instance, ultra low latency database work. It would unlikely again, taking the OpenShift example, it's unlikely that off-the-shelf OpenShift would be used to develop such a low latency superPaaS layer for ultra low latency database work. The point is supercloud and its inherent superPaaS will be optimized to solve specific problems like that low latency example for distributed databases or fast backup and recovery for data protection, and ransomware, or data sharing, or data governance. Highly specific use cases that the supercloud is designed to solve for. Okay, another question we often get is who has a supercloud today and who's building a supercloud, and who are the contenders? Well, most companies that consider themselves cloud players will, we believe, be building or are building superclouds. Here's a common ETR graphic that we like to show with Net Score or spending momentum on the Y axis and overlap or pervasiveness in the ETR surveys on the X axis. And we've randomly chosen a number of players that we think are in the supercloud mix, and we've included the hyperscalers because they are enablers. Now remember, this is a spectrum of maturity it's a maturity model and we've added some of those industry players that we see building superclouds like CapitalOne, Goldman Sachs, Walmart. This is in deference to Moschella's observation around The Matrix and the industry structural changes that are going on. This goes back to every company, being a software company and rather than pattern match an outdated SaaS model, we see new industry structures emerging where software and data, and tools, specific to an industry will lead the next wave of innovation and bring in new value that traditional technology companies aren't going to solve, and the hyperscalers aren't going to solve. You know, we've talked a lot about Snowflake's data cloud as an example of supercloud. After being at Snowflake Summit, we're more convinced than ever that they're headed in this direction. VMware is clearly going after cross-cloud services you know, perhaps creating a new category. Basically, every large company we see either pursuing supercloud initiatives or thinking about it. Dell showed project Alpine at Dell Tech World, that's a supercloud. Snowflake introducing a new application development capability based on their superPaaS, our term of course, they don't use the phrase. Mongo, Couchbase, Nutanix, Pure Storage, Veeam, CrowdStrike, Okta, Zscaler. Yeah, all of those guys. Yes, Cisco and HPE. Even though on theCUBE at HPE Discover, Fidelma Russo said on theCUBE, she wasn't a fan of cloaking mechanisms, but then we talked to HPE's Head of Storage Services, Omer Asad is clearly headed in the direction that we would consider supercloud. Again, those cross-cloud services, of course, their emphasis is connecting as well on-prem. That single experience, which traditionally has not existed with multi-cloud or hybrid. And we're seeing the emergence of companies, smaller companies like Aviatrix and Starburst, and Clumio and others that are building versions of superclouds that solve for a specific problem for their customers. Even ISVs like Adobe, ADP, we've talked to UiPath. They seem to be looking at new ways to go beyond the SaaS model and add value within their cloud ecosystem specifically, around data as part of their and their customers digital transformations. So yeah, pretty much every tech vendor with any size or momentum and new industry players are coming out of hiding, and competing. Building superclouds that look a lot like Moschella's Matrix, with machine intelligence and blockchains, and virtual realities, and gaming, all enabled by the internet and hyperscale cloud CAPEX. So it's moving fast and it's the future in our opinion. So don't get too caught up in the past or you'll be left behind. Okay, what about examples? We've given a number in the past, but let's try to be a little bit more specific. Here are a few we've selected and we're going to answer the two questions in one section here. What workloads and services will run in superclouds and what are some examples? Let's start with analytics. Our favorite example is Snowflake, it's one of the furthest along with its data cloud, in our view. It's a supercloud optimized for data sharing and governance, query performance, and security, and ecosystem enablement. When you do things inside of that data cloud, what we call a super data cloud. Again, our term, not theirs. You can do things that you could not do in a single cloud. You can't do this with Redshift, You can't do this with SQL server and they're bringing new data types now with merging analytics or at least accommodate analytics and transaction type data, and bringing open source tooling with things like Apache Iceberg. And so it ticks the boxes we laid out earlier. I would say that a company like Databricks is also in that mix doing it, coming at it from a data science perspective, trying to create that consistent experience for data scientists and data engineering across clouds. Converge databases, running transaction and analytic workloads is another example. Take a look at what Couchbase is doing with Capella and how it's enabling stretching the cloud to the edge with ARM-based platforms and optimizing for low latency across clouds, and even out to the edge. Document database workloads, look at MongoDB, a very developer-friendly platform that with the Atlas is moving toward a supercloud model running document databases very, very efficiently. How about general purpose workloads? This is where VMware comes into to play. Very clearly, there's a need to create a common operating environment across clouds and on-prem, and out to the edge. And I say VMware is hard at work on that. Managing and moving workloads, and balancing workloads, and being able to recover very quickly across clouds for everyday applications. Network routing, take a look at what Aviatrix is doing across clouds, industry workloads. We see CapitalOne, it announced its cost optimization platform for Snowflake, piggybacking on Snowflake supercloud or super data cloud. And in our view, it's very clearly going to go after other markets is going to test it out with Snowflake, running, optimizing on AWS and it's going to expand to other clouds as Snowflake's business and those other clouds grows. Walmart working with Microsoft to create an on-premed Azure experience that's seamless. Yes, that counts, on-prem counts. If you can create that seamless and continuous experience, identical experience from on-prem to a hyperscale cloud, we would include that as a supercloud. You know, we've written about what Goldman is doing. Again, connecting its on-prem data and software tooling, and other capabilities to AWS for scale. And we can bet dollars to donuts that Oracle will be building a supercloud in healthcare with its Cerner acquisition. Supercloud is everywhere you look. So I'm sorry, naysayers it's happening all around us. So what's next? Well, with all the industry buzz and debate about the future, John Furrier and I, have decided to host an event in Palo Alto, we're motivated and inspired to further this conversation. And we welcome all points of view, positive, negative, multi-cloud, supercloud, hypercloud, all welcome. So theCUBE on Supercloud is coming on August 9th, out of our Palo Alto studios, we'll be running a live program on the topic. We've reached out to a number of industry participants, VMware, Snowflake, Confluent, Sky High Security, Gee Rittenhouse's new company, HashiCorp, CloudFlare. We've hit up Red Hat and we expect many of these folks will be in our studios on August 9th. And we've invited a number of industry participants as well that we're excited to have on. From industry, from financial services, from healthcare, from retail, we're inviting analysts, thought leaders, investors. We're going to have more detail in the coming weeks, but for now, if you're interested, please reach out to me or John with how you think you can advance the discussion and we'll see if we can fit you in. So mark your calendars, stay tuned for more information. Okay, that's it for today. Thanks to Alex Myerson who handles production and manages the podcast for Breaking Analysis. And I want to thank Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight, they help get the word out on social and in our newsletters. And Rob Hof is our editor in chief over at SiliconANGLE, who does a lot of editing and appreciate you posting on SiliconANGLE, Rob. Thanks to all of you. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcasts wherever you listen. All you got to do is search Breaking Analysis podcast. It publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. You can email me directly at david.vellante@siliconangle.com or DM me @DVellante, or comment on my LinkedIn post. And please do check out ETR.ai for the best survey data. And the enterprise tech business will be at AWS NYC Summit next Tuesday, July 12th. So if you're there, please do stop by and say hello to theCUBE, it's at the Javits Center. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching. And we'll see you next time on "Breaking Analysis." (bright music)

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is "Breaking Analysis" with Dave Vallante. >> Welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights powered by ETR. As we exited the isolation economy last year, Supercloud is a term that we introduced to describe something new that was happening in the world of cloud. In this "Breaking Analysis," we address the 10 most frequently asked questions we get around Supercloud. Okay, let's review these frequently asked questions on Supercloud that we're going to try to answer today. Look at an industry that's full of hype and buzzwords. Why the hell does anyone need a new term? Aren't hyperscalers building out Superclouds? We'll try to answer why the term Supercloud connotes something different from hyperscale clouds. And we'll talk about the problems that Superclouds solve specifically, and we'll further define the critical aspects of a Supercloud architecture. We often get asked, "Isn't this just multi-cloud?" Well, we don't think so, and we'll explain why in this "Breaking Analysis." Now, in an earlier episode, we introduced the notion of super PaaS. Well, isn't a plain vanilla PaaS already a super PaaS? Again, we don't think so, and we'll explain why. Who will actually build and who are the players currently building Superclouds? What workloads and services will run on Superclouds? And eight A or number nine, what are some examples that we can share of Supercloud? And finally, we'll answer what you can expect next from us on Supercloud. Okay, let's get started. Why do we need another buzzword? Well, late last year ahead of re:Invent, we were inspired by a post from Jerry Chen called castles in the cloud. Now, in that blog post, he introduced the idea that there were submarkets emerging in cloud that presented opportunities for investors and entrepreneurs. That the cloud wasn't going to suck the hyperscalers, weren't going to suck all the value out of the industry. And so we introduced this notion of Supercloud to describe what we saw as a value layer emerging above the hyperscalers CAPEX gift, we sometimes call it. Now, it turns out that we weren't the only ones using the term, as both Cornell and MIT, have used the phrase in somewhat similar, but different contexts. The point is, something new was happening in the AWS and other ecosystems. It was more than IS and PaaS, and wasn't just SaaS running in the cloud. It was a new architecture that integrates infrastructure, platform and software as services, to solve new problems that the cloud vendors, in our view, weren't addressing by themselves. It seemed to us that the ecosystem was pursuing opportunities across clouds that went beyond conventional implementations of multi-cloud. And we felt there was a structural change going on at the industry level. The Supercloud metaphorically was highlighting. So that's the background on why we felt a new catch phrase was warranted. Love it or hate it, it's memorable and it's what we chose. Now, to that last point about structural industry transformation. Andy Rapaport is sometimes and often credited with identifying the shift from the vertically integrated IBM mainframe era to the fragmented PC microprocesor based era in his HBR article in 1991. In fact, it was David Moschella, who at the time was an IDC analyst who first introduced the concept in 1987, four years before Rapaport's article was published. Moschella saw that it was clear that Intel, Microsoft, Seagate and others would replace the system vendors and put that forth in a graphic that looked similar to the first two on this chart. We don't have to review the shift from IBM as the center of the industry to Wintel. That's well understood. What isn't as well known or accepted is what Moschella put out in his 2018 book called "Seeing Digital" which introduced the idea of the matrix that's shown on the right hand side of this chart. Moschella posited that new services were emerging, built on top of the internet and hyperscale clouds that would integrate other innovations and would define the next era of computing. He used the term matrix, because the conceptual depiction included, not only horizontal technology rows, like the cloud and the internet, but for the first time included connected industry verticals, the columns in this chart. Moschella pointed out that, whereas historically, industry verticals had a closed value chain or stack and ecosystem of R&D and production and manufacturing and distribution. And if you were in that industry, the expertise within that vertical generally stayed within that vertical and was critical to success. But because of digital and data, for the first time, companies were able to traverse industries jump across industries and compete because data enabled them to do that. Examples, Amazon and content, payments, groceries, Apple and payments, and content and so forth. There are many examples. Data was now this unifying enabler and this marked a change in the structure of the technology landscape. And Supercloud is meant to imply more than running in hyperscale clouds. Rather, it's the combination of multiple technologies, enabled by cloud scale with new industry participants from those verticals; financial services, and healthcare, and manufacturing, energy, media, and virtually all and any industry. Kind of an extension of every company is a software company. Basically, every company now has the opportunity to build their own cloud or Supercloud. And we'll come back to that. Let's first address what's different about Superclouds relative to hyperscale clouds. Now, this one's pretty straightforward and obvious, I think. Hyperscale clouds, they're walled gardens where they want your data in their cloud and they want to keep you there. Sure, every cloud player realizes that not all data will go to their particular cloud. So they're meeting customers where their data lives with initiatives like Amazon Outposts and Azure Arc and Google Antos. But at the end of the day, the more homogeneous they can make their environments, the better control, security, costs, and performance they can deliver. The more complex the environment, the more difficult it is to deliver on their brand promises. And, of course, the less margin that's left for them to capture. Will the hyperscalers get more serious about cross cloud services? Maybe, but they have plenty of work to do within their own clouds and within enabling their own ecosystems. They have a long way to go, a lot of runway. So let's talk about specifically, what problems Superclouds solve. We've all seen the stats from IDC or Gartner or whomever, that customers on average use more than one cloud, two clouds, three clouds, five clouds, 20 clouds. And we know these clouds operate in disconnected silos for the most part. And that's a problem, because each cloud requires different skills, because the development environment is different as is the operating environment. They have different APIs, different primitives, and different management tools that are optimized for each respective hyperscale cloud. Their functions and value props don't extend to their competitors' clouds for the most part. Why would they? As a result, there's friction when moving between different clouds. It's hard to share data. It's hard to move work. It's hard to secure and govern data. It's hard to enforce organizational edicts and policies across these clouds and on-prem. Supercloud is an architecture designed to create a single environment that enables management of workloads and data across clouds in an effort to take out complexity, accelerate application development, streamline operations, and share data safely, irrespective of location. It's pretty straightforward, but non-trivial, which is why I always ask a company's CEO and executives if stock buybacks and dividends will yield as much return as building out Superclouds that solve really specific and hard problems and create differential value. Okay, let's dig a bit more into the architectural aspects of Supercloud. In other words, what are the salient attributes of Supercloud? So, first and foremost, a Supercloud runs a set of specific services designed to solve a unique problem, and it can do so in more than one cloud. Superclouds leverage the underlying cloud native tooling of a hyperscale cloud, but they're optimized for a specific objective that aligns with the problem that they're trying to solve. For example, Supercloud might be optimized for lowest cost or lowest latency or sharing data or governing or securing that data or higher performance for networking, for example. But the point is, the collection of services that is being delivered is focused on a unique value proposition that is not being delivered by the hyperscalers across clouds. A Supercloud abstracts the underlying and siloed primitives of the native PaaS layer from the hyperscale cloud, and then using its own specific platform as a service tooling, creates a common experience across clouds for developers and users. And it does so in the most efficient manner, meaning it has the metadata knowledge and management capabilities that can optimize for latency, bandwidth, or recovery or data sovereignty, or whatever unique value that Supercloud is delivering for the specific use case in their domain. And a Supercloud comprises a super PaaS capability that allows ecosystem partners through APIs to add incremental value on top of the Supercloud platform to fill gaps, accelerate features, and of course, innovate. The services can be infrastructure related, they could be application services, they could be data services, security services, user services, et cetera, designed and packaged to bring unique value to customers. Again, that hyperscalers are not delivering across clouds or on premises. Okay, so another common question we get is, "Isn't that just multi-cloud?" And what we'd say to that is yeah, "Yes, but no." You can call it multi-cloud 2.0, if you want. If you want to use, it's kind of a commonly used rubric. But as Dell's Chuck Whitten proclaimed at Dell Technologies World this year, multi-cloud, by design, is different than multi-cloud by default. Meaning, to date, multi-cloud has largely been a symptom of what we've called multi-vendor or of M&A. You buy a company and they happen to use Google cloud. And so you bring it in. And when you look at most so-called multi-cloud implementations, you see things like an on-prem stack, which is wrapped in a container and hosted on a specific cloud. Or increasingly, a technology vendor has done the work of building a cloud native version of their stack and running it on a specific cloud. But historically, it's been a unique experience within each cloud, with virtually no connection between the cloud silos. Supercloud sets out to build incremental value across clouds and above hyperscale CAPEX that goes beyond cloud compatibility within each cloud. So, if you want to call it multi-cloud 2.0, that's fine, but we chose to call it Supercloud. Okay, so at this point you may be asking, "Well isn't PaaS already a version of Supercloud?" And again, we would say, "No." That Supercloud and its corresponding super PaaS layer, which is a prerequisite, gives the freedom to store, process, and manage and secure and connect islands of data across a continuum with a common experience across clouds. And the services offered are specific to that Supercloud and will vary by each offering. OpenShift, for example, can be used to construct a super PaaS, but in and of itself, isn't a super PaaS, it's generic. A super PaaS might be developed to support, for instance, ultra low latency database work. It would unlikely, again, taking the OpenShift example, it's unlikely that off the shelf OpenShift would be used to develop such a low latency, super PaaS layer for ultra low latency database work. The point is, Supercloud and its inherent super PaaS will be optimized to solve specific problems like that low latency example for distributed databases or fast backup in recovery for data protection and ransomware, or data sharing or data governance. Highly specific use cases that the Supercloud is designed to solve for. Okay, another question we often get is, "Who has a Supercloud today and who's building a Supercloud and who are the contenders?" Well, most companies that consider themselves cloud players will, we believe, be building or are building Superclouds. Here's a common ETR graphic that we like to show with net score or spending momentum on the Y axis, and overlap or pervasiveness in the ETR surveys on the X axis. And we've randomly chosen a number of players that we think are in the Supercloud mix. And we've included the hyperscalers because they are enablers. Now, remember, this is a spectrum of maturity. It's a maturity model. And we've added some of those industry players that we see building Superclouds like Capital One, Goldman Sachs, Walmart. This is in deference to Moschella's observation around the matrix and the industry structural changes that are going on. This goes back to every company being a software company. And rather than pattern match and outdated SaaS model, we see new industry structures emerging where software and data and tools specific to an industry will lead the next wave of innovation and bring in new value that traditional technology companies aren't going to solve. And the hyperscalers aren't going to solve. We've talked a lot about Snowflake's data cloud as an example of Supercloud. After being at Snowflake Summit, we're more convinced than ever that they're headed in this direction. VMware is clearly going after cross cloud services, perhaps creating a new category. Basically, every large company we see either pursuing Supercloud initiatives or thinking about it. Dell showed Project Alpine at Dell Tech World. That's a Supercloud. Snowflake introducing a new application development capability based on their super PaaS, our term, of course. They don't use the phrase. Mongo, Couchbase, Nutanix, Pure Storage, Veeam, CrowdStrike, Okta, Zscaler. Yeah, all of those guys. Yes, Cisco and HPE. Even though on theCUBE at HPE Discover, Fidelma Russo said on theCUBE, she wasn't a fan of cloaking mechanisms. (Dave laughing) But then we talked to HPE's head of storage services, Omer Asad, and he's clearly headed in the direction that we would consider Supercloud. Again, those cross cloud services, of course, their emphasis is connecting as well on-prem. That single experience, which traditionally has not existed with multi-cloud or hybrid. And we're seeing the emergence of smaller companies like Aviatrix and Starburst and Clumio and others that are building versions of Superclouds that solve for a specific problem for their customers. Even ISVs like Adobe, ADP, we've talked to UiPath. They seem to be looking at new ways to go beyond the SaaS model and add value within their cloud ecosystem, specifically around data as part of their and their customer's digital transformations. So yeah, pretty much every tech vendor with any size or momentum, and new industry players are coming out of hiding and competing, building Superclouds that look a lot like Moschella's matrix, with machine intelligence and blockchains and virtual realities and gaming, all enabled by the internet and hyperscale cloud CAPEX. So it's moving fast and it's the future in our opinion. So don't get too caught up in the past or you'll be left behind. Okay, what about examples? We've given a number in the past but let's try to be a little bit more specific. Here are a few we've selected and we're going to answer the two questions in one section here. What workloads and services will run in Superclouds and what are some examples? Let's start with analytics. Our favorite example of Snowflake. It's one of the furthest along with its data cloud, in our view. It's a Supercloud optimized for data sharing and governance, and query performance, and security, and ecosystem enablement. When you do things inside of that data cloud, what we call a super data cloud. Again, our term, not theirs. You can do things that you could not do in a single cloud. You can't do this with Redshift. You can't do this with SQL server. And they're bringing new data types now with merging analytics or at least accommodate analytics and transaction type data and bringing open source tooling with things like Apache Iceberg. And so, it ticks the boxes we laid out earlier. I would say that a company like Databricks is also in that mix, doing it, coming at it from a data science perspective trying to create that consistent experience for data scientists and data engineering across clouds. Converge databases, running transaction and analytic workloads is another example. Take a look at what Couchbase is doing with Capella and how it's enabling stretching the cloud to the edge with arm based platforms and optimizing for low latency across clouds, and even out to the edge. Document database workloads, look at Mongo DB. A very developer friendly platform that where the Atlas is moving toward a Supercloud model, running document databases very, very efficiently. How about general purpose workloads? This is where VMware comes into play. Very clearly, there's a need to create a common operating environment across clouds and on-prem and out to the edge. And I say, VMware is hard at work on that, managing and moving workloads and balancing workloads, and being able to recover very quickly across clouds for everyday applications. Network routing, take a look at what Aviatrix is doing across clouds. Industry workloads, we see Capital One. It announced its cost optimization platform for Snowflake, piggybacking on Snowflake's Supercloud or super data cloud. And in our view, it's very clearly going to go after other markets. It's going to test it out with Snowflake, optimizing on AWS, and it's going to expand to other clouds as Snowflake's business and those other clouds grows. Walmart working with Microsoft to create an on-premed Azure experience that's seamless. Yes, that counts, on-prem counts. If you can create that seamless and continuous experience, identical experience from on-prem to a hyperscale cloud, we would include that as a Supercloud. We've written about what Goldman is doing. Again, connecting its on-prem data and software tooling, and other capabilities to AWS for scale. And you can bet dollars to donuts that Oracle will be building a Supercloud in healthcare with its Cerner acquisition. Supercloud is everywhere you look. So I'm sorry, naysayers, it's happening all around us. So what's next? Well, with all the industry buzz and debate about the future, John Furrier and I have decided to host an event in Palo Alto. We're motivated and inspired to further this conversation. And we welcome all points of view, positive, negative, multi-cloud, Supercloud, HyperCloud, all welcome. So theCUBE on Supercloud is coming on August 9th out of our Palo Alto studios. We'll be running a live program on the topic. We've reached out to a number of industry participants; VMware, Snowflake, Confluent, Skyhigh Security, G. Written House's new company, HashiCorp, CloudFlare. We've hit up Red Hat and we expect many of these folks will be in our studios on August 9th. And we've invited a number of industry participants as well that we're excited to have on. From industry, from financial services, from healthcare, from retail, we're inviting analysts, thought leaders, investors. We're going to have more detail in the coming weeks, but for now, if you're interested, please reach out to me or John with how you think you can advance the discussion, and we'll see if we can fit you in. So mark your calendars, stay tuned for more information. Okay, that's it for today. Thanks to Alex Myerson who handles production and manages the podcast for "Breaking Analysis." And I want to thank Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight. They help get the word out on social and in our newsletters. And Rob Hof is our editor in chief over at SiliconANGLE, who does a lot of editing and appreciate you posting on SiliconANGLE, Rob. Thanks to all of you. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcasts wherever you listen. All you got to do is search, breaking analysis podcast. I publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. Or you can email me directly at david.vellante@siliconangle.com. Or DM me @DVallante, or comment on my LinkedIn post. And please, do check out etr.ai for the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. We'll be at AWS NYC summit next Tuesday, July 12th. So if you're there, please do stop by and say hello to theCUBE. It's at the Javits Center. This is Dave Vallante for theCUBE Insights, powered by ETR. Thanks for watching. And we'll see you next time on "Breaking Analysis." (slow music)

(upbeat music) >> Hello, welcome to the AWS Partner Showcase presented by theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, your host. This is Showcase season one, episode two. I've got Danielle Greshock, Worldwide Director of ISV Partner Solutions Architects At AWS. Welcome to the kickoff, Speeding Innovation with AWS. Good to see you. >> Good to see you as well. Thanks, John. >> Okay, we've got some great companies we're presenting with this week, talking about kind of speeding innovation, really with the cloud. And obviously Amazon, you guys are number one and doing this has been the big theme from Reinvent, this past conference. A lot of people are refactoring in the cloud, from observability to new ways to counter ransomware, to even back up and recover. These were once point solutions, now they're not point solutions, they're part of the cloud platform that's powering new modern application. You know, from DS city pipelining, cloud native, it's out there now, it's now well known, people are looking at this and going, "okay, this is cloud next level," or "super cloud," or whatever we want to call it. It's happening, and people are having solutions and you're in the middle of it. So what's your take on this? Because you know, Veeam, Splunk Clumio and others, they're all doing great business and now refactoring in the cloud with AWS. >> Yeah, well I think that what a lot of companies are finding now is that moving to the cloud is really speeding their innovation. And of course there's been a faster move to the cloud because they realize the benefits that they can get from that movement. And, you know, companies like Veeam, like Clumio, they are building on top of AWS and coming up with new ways to solve customer problems. And then of course the other thing is that there's so much much access to data and insights that you weren't able to have before. But now that you can retain that data with the scale of the cloud, lots of companies are finding new and exciting things to do and innovate with that data that they are able to hang onto. >> You know, it's interesting, you see the entrepreneurial activity. I mean, I was reading- >> Yeah >> This is what I do on the weekends. I go back to 2006 and I look at the early Amazon posts of EC2 and S3. And that was a real great startup movement and that changed the game. Now, even today, the startups are out there. You look at Clumio, right? Poojan over there, he's been doing great stuff. He came from Nutanix, a hyperscale, and now he's got a startup that's growing like a weed out there and Amazon's powering that. You got Cohesity, they're almost going to go public, I believe. They've announced that, they're about to go public so they're going to be a public company. And you have Veeam, which has been in the ecosystems for many, many years, a decade. So these are a good mix of companies, and this is the makeup of the kind of customers you have. What's the thing that they have in common? Why should people pay attention to these companies and the relationship with Amazon web services? >> I mean, I think the thing that these companies really have in common is thinking about the cloud as this new paradigm that they are building for. You know, if I think about Veeam, you know we have really amped up a lot of, both our building and co-selling with Veeam and they're having a lot of success with small companies, medium companies big companies as well, just with their product. And so that is what I think is the difference is they are looking at us as an opportunity to innovate with their product and take advantage to what the opportunities the cloud provides there. >> What are you guys seeing as solution architects in your customer base? Look at AWS from a partnership standpoint. It used to be you get into the marketplace, you have some programs, okay, all good. You guys have shifted that. Can you give us an update on what you guys are doing with respect to offering new kinds of value as your customers change and grow? >> Yeah, I mean, definitely we've seen a lot of success with our SaaS factory program that is looking to, you know help companies make the transformation to SaaS. Also our workload migration program, helping ISVs to move even faster, their on premises business into AWS for sure. But I also just think that, you know, what our customers demand actually at this point is, they're really looking for full blown solutions. So us working with them on solutions, working closely with systems integrators who can help execute on those solutions. Those are all things that our successful ISVs are really leaning into. >> This month's featured companies all have one thing in common, they're all using data at scale and data as part of the developer process. You're seeing data being available, and they have to be available for machine learning and other things cause you have to be more agile. And the scale. So you got more flow and also scalable in terms of users and whatnot. So this is a common theme. What's happening from a customer standpoint as they start to rearchitect? Because you guys have to provide that now next level headroom. >> Yeah. I mean, I think that, you know, again we're seeing a lot of companies wanting to do different things with the volume of data that they actually have, and things that they were never even considering in on-prem. So we talk about refactoring, it's not simply a lift and shift, they're looking to get some technology benefit out of the move, right? So just kind of having a net net from on-prem into the cloud is not going to be good enough. And so we're looking to add that value when they go and make that investment. >> You know, we've been always writing about and covering Snowflake as an example, bring them up. You know you have Redshift that's also, you know competing I guess, with Redshift. But they're a partner, they're growing. They built on AWS and became valuable because they did it differently in the cloud. We're using that, there's many other examples like that, they're companies are coming in and building and taking advantage of the gift called scale. CapEx gift from AWS. And also you got Silicon coming, so more and more goodness on the Amazon side, enabling the partners. So I have to ask you, and that's all kind of documenting that's happening in real time, but what it's teasing out is that the integrations are changing, right? So you're seeing a lot more tightly coupled engineering or solutions with AWS and your top partners. Can you share insight into what that looks like and how you guys think about that? >> Yeah, and definitely a lot of our top partnerships really do start with integrations. That's where we're able to, you know, find the value, that differentiated solution on AWS. So, you know, Snowflake, as an example, just talked about how their integration with private link and some of their serverless integrations were really the cornerstones of the new partnership that they've built with us. And same thing with other ISVs, they've really looked at the integrations to be core, building the value with AWS, with our services and for our AWS customers. Of course these are very bespoke, you know? What's going to be important to a data company isn't going to be the same thing that's important to a storage based company, but still being able to bring the full value of the innovation that AWS makes and have that better together story is really where we find a lot of value there. >> Yeah, and you're in the middle of it too. You have the keys to the kingdom. Solution architects are all where the action is right now. Everyone's looking, okay I got to build on what I got and also I got to build the architecture in real time. And build on top, it's not a tear down, it's a continuation of what they had. >> Yeah, and even our most mature solutions and partnerships, those that are full SaaS solutions, the companies that are innovating and continuing to bring new features to market are the ones that we end up finding to have the most success with. And that is really what my team does is building those integrations and new solutions on AWS. It is our core reason we exist and you know, what we feel is the cornerstone to great partnerships >> You know, Dave Vellante and I on our team, we're always commenting about how the cloud scale is a real benefit to anyone, whether it's leveling up talent, bias, and you know women in tech is coming up, international women's day coming up around the corner. >> Yeah. >> That's happening, so it's all good, right? So, whether you're a startup or a big company if you get that one feature right in the cloud you can and really change your business. And I think this always used to be elusive for the product marketing teams of the old way things were built. You know, you got to test it out and put it out there. Now you got real time information, and for companies that are ISVs out there, they really can be nimble. >> Well, and that's the thing too, is we try very hard to make sure our ISVs have access to customers, our customers, and that's how they can figure out like what is the right thing to build for them. >> Whether you're big or small, the cloud's great. So I got to ask you, this is season one of the AWS partner showcase, we're proud to present that with you guys. It's been a great partnership, we love getting the stories out there. Episode two is about this theme about, you got little data here, you got backup recovery you got ransomware, you know, old point solutions. We've had a great conversation. Why should people pay attention to this episode in your opinion? What's the big aha going on here in this episode? >> I mean, for me, I think ISVs ask me all the time, how can I innovate with AWS? How can I have a successful partnership? This series will give you that answer. You can see real world examples of what other companies are doing to be successful. So I mean, that is reason enough when it's a very competitive tech technology market. So, you know, lots of good ideas there to see. >> Great stuff, and of course, again, these are big ISVs, they're doing great stuff. They're software developers, they're building the next modern applications. Danielle, thanks for coming out. You're the worldwide director of the ISV Partner Solution Architects at AWS, you're in the middle of all the great action. Must be fun, isn't it? >> It's a lot of fun. I couldn't ask for a better job. >> Alright, well thanks for coming on this keynote kickoff. Appreciate it. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE, you're watching, and we've got the whole series coming up, but this is the AWS Partner Showcase presented by theCUBE. Showcase season one, episode two, enjoy the great presentations. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> From theCube studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCube in ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> New data suggests the tech spending will be higher than we previously thought for 2021. COVID learnings, a faster than expected vaccine rollout, productivity gains in the last 10 months, and broad-based cloud leverage lead us to raise our outlook for next year. We now expect a three to 5% increase in 2021 technology spending, roughly double our previously forecasted growth rate of 2%. Hello everyone and welcome to this week's we keep on Cube Insights powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis, we're going to share new spending data from ETR partners and take a preliminary look at which sectors and which companies are showing momentum heading into next year. Let's get right into it. The data is pointing to a strong 2021 rebound. A latest survey from ETR and the information from theCube Community suggests that the accelerated pace of the vaccine rollout pent up demand for normalcy and learnings from COVID will boost 2021 tech spending higher than previously anticipated. Now a key factor we've cited is that the forced March to digital transformation due to the pandemic created a massive proof of concept for what works and what doesn't in a digital business. CIOs are planning to bet on those sure things to drive continued productivity improvements and new business opportunities. Now, speaking of productivity, nearly 80% of respondents in the latest ETR survey indicate that productivity either stayed the same or improved over the past three months. Now of those, the vast majority, more than 80% cited improvements in productivity. This has been a common theme throughout the year. As well, the expectation among CIOs is that many workers will return to the office in the second half of the year, which we expect will drive new spending in the infrastructure needs of company HQs, which have been neglected over the past 10 months. Now, despite the expectation that many workers will return to the office, 2020 has shown us that working remotely, hey, it's here to stay, and a much larger number of employees are going to be permanently remote working than pre pandemic. ETR survey data shows that that number is going to be approximately double over the longterm. We'll look at some of that specific data. In addition, cloud computing, it became the staple of business viability in 2020. Those that were up the cloud adoption ramp, well, they benefited greatly, those that weren't well, they had to learn fast. Now, along with remote work cloud necessitated new thinking around network security, and as we've reported identity access management, endpoint security and cloud security with the beneficiaries. Companies like Okta, CrowdStrike, Zscaler, a number of others continue to ride this wave. Larger established security companies like Cisco, Palo Alto Networks, F5, Fortunate and others, they have major portions of their business that are benefiting from the tailwinds in the shift and network traffic, as a result of cloud and remote work. Now, despite all the momentum in the market and the expect of improvements in 2021, these tailwinds are not expected to be evenly distributed, far from it. We think Q4 is going to remain soft relative to last year and Q1 2021 is going to be flat, maybe up slightly. Remember the COVID impact was definitely felt in March of this year. So based on the earnings that we saw, there may be some upside in Q1, given that organizations are still being cautious in Q4, and really there's still some uncertainty in Q1. Let's look at some of the survey responses and you'll see why we're more optimistic than we've previously reported. This chart shows the responses to key questions around spending trajectories from the March, June, September, and December surveys of this year. Now it's no surprise that there's been little change in remote workers and limiting business travel. But look at the other categories, seeing a dramatic reduction in hiring freezes. The percentage of companies freezing new IT deployments continues to drop throughout the year. And then conversely, the percentage of companies accelerating new it deployments that's sharply up to 34% from the March low of 12%. And look at the headcount trends. The percentage of companies instituting layoffs. It continues its downward trajectory while accelerated hiring is now up to 17%. So there's a lot to be excited about in these results. Now let's look the remote worker trend. How do CIO see that shift in the near to midterm? This chart shows the work from home data and it's amazingly consistent from the September survey drill down. You can see CIO's is indicate that on average, 15 to 60% of workers were remote prior to the pandemic, and that jumped up to 72 to 73% currently, and is expected to stay in the high fifties until the summer of 2021. Thereafter, organizations expect that the number of employees that work remotely on a permanent basis is going to more than double to 34% long term. By the way, I've talked to a number of executives, CEOs, CIOs, and CFOs that expect that number to be higher than these especially in the technology sector. They expect more than half of their workers to be remote and are looking to consolidate facilities cost to save money. As we've said, cloud computing has been the most significant contributor to business resilience and digital transformation this year. So let's look at cloud strategies and see how CIOs expect those to evolve. This chart shows responses to how organizations see multi-cloud evolving. It's interesting to note the ETR call-out, which concludes that the narrative around multi-cloud multi-cloud is real, and it is. But I want to talk to you about a flip side to this notion in that, as many customers have, or are planning to increasingly concentrate workloads in the cloud. This actually makes some sense. Sure, virtually every major company uses multiple clouds, but more often than not, it concentrate work on a primary cloud. CIO strategies, they're not generally evenly distributed across clouds. The data shows that this is the case for less than 20% of the respondents, rather organizations are typically going to apply an 80, 20 or a 70, 30 rule for their multi-cloud approach. Meaning they pick a primary cloud on which most work is done, and then they use alternative clouds as either a hedge or maybe for specific workloads or maybe even data protection purposes. Now, if you think about it, optimizing on a primary cloud allows organizations to simplify their security and governance and consolidate their skills. At this point in the cloud evolution, it seems CIOs feel there's more value that is going to come from leveraging the cloud to change their operating models, and maybe broadly spreading the wealth to reduce risk or maybe cut costs, or maybe even to tap specialized capabilities. What's more in thinking about AWS and Microsoft respectively. Each can make a very strong case from MANO cloud. AWS has more features than any other cloud, and as such can handle most workloads. Microsoft can make a similar argument for its customers that have an affinity and a largest state of Microsoft software. The key for multi-cloud in our view will be the degree to which technology vendors can abstract the underlying cloud complexity and create a layer that floats above the clouds and adds incremental value. Snowflakes data cloud is one of the best examples of this, and we've covered that pretty extensively. Now, clearly VMware and Red Hat have aspirations at the infrastructure layer in a similar fashion. Pure storage, and NetApp are a couple of the largest storage players with similar visions. And then Qumulo and Clumio are two other examples with promising technologies, but they have a much smaller install base. Take a look at Cisco, Dell, IBM and HPE. They have a lot to gain and a lot to lose in this cloud game. So multi-cloud is an imperative for these leaders, but for them it's much more complicated because of the complexity and vastness of their portfolios. And notably Dell has VMware and IBM of course has Red Hat, which are key assets that can be leveraged for this multi-cloud game. HPE has a channel and a large install base, but all of these firms, they have to spread R&D much more thinly than some of these other companies that we mentioned for example. The bottom line is that multi-cloud has to be more than just plugging into an operating well on any of the clouds. It require... Which is by the way, this is mostly where we are today. It requires an incremental value proposition that solves a clear problem, and at the same time runs efficiently, meaning it takes advantage of cloud native services at scale. What sectors are showing momentum heading into 2021? And who are some of the names that are looking strong? We've reported a lot that cloud containers and container orchestration, machine intelligence and automation are by far the hottest sectors, the biggest areas of investment with the greatest spending momentum. Now we measure this in ETR parlance, remember by net score. But here's the good news, almost every other sector in the ETR taxonomy with the notable exception of IT outsourcing and IT consulting is showing positive spending momentum relative to previous surveys this year. Yeah, maybe not, it's not a shock, but it appears that the tech spending recovery will be broad-based. It's also worth noting that there are several vendors that stand out and we show a number of them here. CrowdStrike, Microsoft has had consistent performance in the dataset throughout this year. Okta, we called out those guys last year and they've clearly performed as you can see in their earnings reports. Pure storage, interestingly, big acceleration and a turnaround from last quarter in the dataset, and of course, snowflake has been off the charts as we reported many times. These guys are all seeing highly accelerated momentum. UiPath just announced its intent to IPO, AWS, Google, Zscaler, SailPoint, ServiceNow, and Elastic, these all continue to trend up. And so, there are some real positives that we're looking for a member of the ETR surveys, they're forward-looking. So we'll see, as we catch up next quarter. Now, before we wrap, I want to say a few words on security, and maybe it's a bit of a non-sequitur here, but I think it's relevant to the trends that we've been discussing, especially as we talk about moving to the cloud. And as you know, we've reported many times on the security space, basically updating you quarterly with our scenarios and the spending and the technology trends and highlighting our four-star companies. Four-star company's insecurity on those with both momentum and significant market presence. And last year we put CrowdStrike, Okta and Zscaler, and some others on the radar. And we've closely track the cyber business of larger companies with a security portfolio like Palo Alto and Cisco, and more recently, VMware has made some acquisitions. Now the government hacked that became news this week. It really underscores the importance of security. It remains the most challenging area for organizations because well, failure's not an option, skills are short, tools are abundant, the adversaries are very well-funded and extremely capable yet failure is common as we saw this week. And there's a misconception that cloud solves the security problem, and it's important to point out that it does not. Cloud is a shared responsibility model, meaning the cloud provider is going to secure the infrastructure for example, but it's up to you as the customer to configure things properly and deal with application security. It's ultimately on you. And the example of S3 is instructive because we've seen a number S3 breaches over the years where the customer didn't properly configure the S3 bucket. We're talking about companies like Honda and Capital One, not just small businesses that don't have the SecOps resources. And generally it was because a non-security person was configuring things. Maybe they were Or developers who are not focused on security, and perhaps permission set too broadly, and access was given to far too many people. Whatever the issue, it took some breaches and subsequent education to increase awareness of this problem and tighten it up. We see some similar trends occurring with new workloads, especially in cloud databases. It's becoming so easy to spin up new data warehouses for example, and we believe that there are exposures out there due the lack of awareness or inconsistent corporate governance being applied to these new data stores. As well, even though important areas like threat intelligence and database security are important, SecOps budgets are stretched thin. And when you ask companies where the priorities are, these fall lower down the list, these areas specifically have taken a back seat, the endpoint, identity and cloud security. And we bring this up because it's a potential blind spot as we saw this week with the US government hack. It was stealthy, it wasn't detected for many, many months. Who knows maybe even years. And not to be a buzzkill, but the point is, cloud enthusiasm has to be concompetent with security vigilant. Enough preaching, let's wrap up here. As we enter 2020, this year, we said the cloud was going to be the force that drove innovation along with data and AI. And as we look in the rear view mirror and put 2020 behind us, I know many of you want to do that, it was the cloud that enabled businesses to not only continue to operate, but to actually increase productivity. Nonetheless, we still see IT spending declines of four to 5% this year with an expectation of a tepid Q4 relative to the last year. We see Q1 slowly rebounding and kind of a swoosh, let me try that again, recovery in the subsequent quarters with tech spending rebounding in 2021 to a positive three to 5%, let's call it 4%. Now supporting us scenario, the pandemic forced a giant Petri dish for digital. And we see some real successes and learnings that organizations will apply in 2021 to bet on sure things. These are cloud, containers, AI, ML, machine intelligence pieces and automation. For sure, along with upticks for virtually every other sector of technology because spending has been so depressed. The two exceptions are outsourcing and IT consulting and related services which continue to be a drag on overall spending. Priorities must be focused on security and governance and further improvements in applying corporate edicts in a cloud world. We also see new data architectures emerging where domain knowledge becomes central to data platforms. We'll be covering this in more detail on top of the work that we've already done in this area. Now, automation is not only an opportunity, it's become a mandate. Yes, RPA, but also broader automation agendas be on point tools. And importantly, we're not talking about paving the cow path here by automating existing processes. Rather we're talking about rethinking processes across the entire organization for a new digital reality where many of these processes are being invented. The work of Erik Brynjolfsson and Andrew McAfee on the second machine age. It was pressured back in 2014 and the conclusions they drew, they're becoming increasingly important in the 2020s, meaning that look machines have always replaced humans throughout time. But for the first time in history, it's happening for cognitive functions, and a huge base of workers is going to be, or as being marginalized, unless they're retrained. Education and public policy that supports this transition is critical. And I for one would like to see a much more productive discussion that goes beyond the cult of break up big tech. Rather I'd like to see governments partner with big tech to truly do good and help drive the re-skilling of workers for the digital age. Now cloud remains the underpinning of the digital business mandate, but the path forward isn't really always crystal clear. This is evidenced by the virtual dead heat between those organizations that are consolidating workloads in a cloud workloads versus those that are hedging bets on a multi-cloud strategy. One thing is clear cloud is the linchpin for our growth scenarios and will continue to be the substrate for innovation in the coming decade. Remember, these episodes, they're all available as podcasts, wherever you listen, all you got to do is search Breaking Analysis podcast, and please subscribe to the series, appreciate that. Check out ETR's website at ETR.plus. We also publish full report every week on wikibond.com and siliconangle.com and get in touch with me at David.vallante, siliconangle.Com, you can DM me at D. Vellante. And please by all means comment on our LinkedIn posts. This is Dave Vellante for theCube Insights powered by ETR. Have a great week everybody, Merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, happy Kwanzaa, or happy, whatever holiday you celebrate. Stay safe, be well, and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

(digital music) >> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> The storage business as we know it has changed forever. On-prem storage was once a virtually unlimited and untapped bastion of innovation, VC funding and lucrative exits. Today it's a shadow of its former self and the glory days of storage will not return. Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights Powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis, we'll lay out our premise for what's happening in the storage industry, and share some fresh insights from our ETR partners, and data that supports our thinking. We've had three decades of tectonic shifts in the storage business. From the simplified history of this industry shows us there've been five major waves of innovation spanning five decades. The dominant industry model has evolved from what was first the mainframe centric vertically integrated business, but of course by IBM and it became a disintegrated business that saw between like 70 or 80 Winchester disk drive companies that rose and then fell. They served a booming PC industry in this way it was led by the likes of Seagate. Now Seagate supplied the emergence of an intelligent controller based external disc array business that drove huge margins for functions that while lucrative was far cheaper than captive storage from system vendors, this era of course was led by EMC and NetApp. And then this business was disrupted by a flash and software defined model that was led by Pure Storage and also VMware. Now the future of storage is being defined by cloud and intelligent data management is being led by AWS and a three letter company that we'll just call TBD, otherwise known as Jump Ball Incorporated. Now, let's get into it here, the impact of AWS cannot be overstated now while legacy storage players, they're sick and tired of talking about the cloud, the reality cannot be ignored. The cloud has been the most disruptive force in storage over the past 10 years, and we've reported on the spending impact extensively. But cloud is not the only factor pressuring the on-prem storage business, flash has killed what we call performance by spindles. In other words, the practice of adding more disk drives to keep performance from tanking. So much flash has been injected into the data center that that no longer is required. But now as you drill down into the cloud, AWS has been by far the most significant factor in our view. Lots of people talked about object storage before AWS, but there sure wasn't much spending going on, S3 changed that. AWS is getting much more aggressive about expanding its storage portfolio and its offerings. S3 came out in 2006 and it was the very first AWS service and then Elastic Block Service EBS came out a couple of years later, nobody really paid much attention. Well last fall at storage day, we saw AWS announce a number of services, many fire-related and this year we saw four new announcements of Amazon at re:Invent. We think AWS' storage revenue will surpass 8 billion this year and could be as high as 10 billion. There's not much data out there, but this would mean that AWS' storage biz is larger than that of a NetApp, which means AWS is larger than every traditional storage player with the exception of Dell. Here's a little glimpse of what's coming at the legacy storage business. It's a clip of the vice-president of AWS storage, her name is Mahlon Thompson Bukovec, watch this. Okay now, you may say Dave, what the heck does that have to do with anything? Yeah, I don't know, but as an older white guy, that's been in this business for awhile, I just think it's badass that this woman boxes and runs a business that we think is approaching $10 billion. Now let's take a quick look at the storage announcements AWS made at re:Invent. The company made four announcements this year, let me try to be brief, the first is EBS io2 Block Express Volumes, got to love the names. AWS was claims this is the first storage area network or sand for the cloud and it offers up to 256,000 IOPS and 4,000 megabytes per second throughput and 64 terabytes of capacity. Hey, sounds pretty impressive right, Well let's dig in a little bit okay, first of all, this is not the first sand in the cloud, at least in my view there may be others but Pure Storage announced cloud block store in 2019 at its annual accelerate customer conference and it's pretty comparable here. Maybe not so much in the speeds and feeds, but the concept of better block storage in the cloud with higher availability. Now, as you may also be saying, what's the big deal? The performance come on, we can smoke that we're on-prem vendor We can bury that. Compared to what we do, AWS' announcement is really not that impressive okay, let me give you a point of comparison there's a startup out there called VAST Data. Just there for you and closure with bundled storage and compute can do 400,000 IOPS and 40,000 megabytes per second and that can be scaled, so yeah, I get it. And AWS also announced that io2 two was priced at 20% less than previous generation volumes, which you might say is also no big deal and I would agree 20% is not as aggressive as the average price decline per gigabyte of any storage technology. AWS loves to make a big deal about its price declines, it's essentially following the industry trends but the point is that this feature will be great for a lot of workloads and it's fully integrated with AWS services meaning for example, it will be very convenient for AWS customers to invoke this capability for example Aurora and other AWS databases through its RDS service, just another easy button for developers to push. This is specially important as we see AWS rapidly expanding its machine learning in AI capabilities with SageMaker, it's embedding ML into things like Redshift and driving analytics, so integration is very key for its customers. Now, is Amazon retail going to run its business on io2 volumes? I doubt it. I believe they're running on Oracle and they need much better performance, but this is a mainstream service for the EBS masses to tap. Now, the other notable announcement was EBS Gp3 volumes. This is essentially a service that lets let you programmatically set SLAs for IOPS and throughput independently without needing to add additional storage. Again, you may be saying things like, well atleast I remember when SolidFire let me do this several years ago and gave me more than 3000 IOPS and 125 megabytes per a second performance, but look, this is great for mainstream customers that want more consistent and predictable performance and that want to set some kind of threshold or floor and it's integrated again into the AWS stack. Two other announcements were made, one that automatically tiers data to colder storage tiers and a replication service. On the former, data migrates to tier two after 90 days of inaccess and tier three, after 180 days. AWS remember, they hired a bunch of folks out of EMC years ago and they put them up in the Boston Seaport area, so they've acquired lots of expertise in a lot of different areas I'm not sure if tiering came out of that group but look, this stuff is not rocket science, but it saves customers money. So these are tried and true techniques that AWS is applying but the important thing is it's in the cloud. Now for sure we'd like to see more policy options than say for example, a fixed 90 day or 180 day policy and more importantly we'd like to see intelligent tiering where the machine is smart enough to elevate and promote certain datasets when they're needed for instance, at the end of a quarter for comparison purposes or at the end of the year, but as NFL Hall of Fame Coach Hank Stram would have said, AWS is matriculating the ball down the field. Okay, let's look at some of the data that supports what we're saying here in our premise today. This chart shows spending across the ETR taxonomy. It depicts the net score or spending velocity for different sectors. We've highlighted storage, now don't put too much weight on the January data because the survey was just launched, but you can see storage continues to be a back burner item relative to some other spending priorities. Now as I've reported, CIOs are really focused on cloud, containers, container orchestration, automation, productivity and other key areas like security. Now let's take a look at some of the financial data from the storage crowd. This chart shows data for eight leading names in storage and we put storage in quotes because as we said earlier, the market is shifting and for sure companies like Cohesity and Rubrik, they're not positioning as storage players in fact, that's the last thing they want to do. Rather they're category creators around data management or intelligent data management but their inadjacency to storage, they're partnering with all the primary storage companies and they're in the ETR taxonomy. Okay, so as you can see, we're showing the year over year, quarterly revenue growth for the leading storage companies. NetApp is a big winner, they're growing at a whopping 2%. They beat expectations, but expectations were way down so you can see in the right most column upper right, we've added the ETR net score from October and net score of 10% says that if you ask customers, are you spending more or less with a company, there are 10% of the customers that are essentially spending more than are spending less, get into that a little further later. For comparison, a company like Snowflake, it has a net score approaching 70% Pure Storage used to be that high several years ago or high sixties anyway. So 10% is in the red zone and yet NetApp, is the big winner this quarter. Now Nutanix isn't really again a storage company, but they're an adjacency and they sell storage and like many of these companies, it's transitioning to a subscription pricing model, so that puts pressure on the income statement, that's why they went out and did a deal with Bain, Bain put in $750 million to help Bridge that transition so that's kind of an interesting move. Every company in this chart is moving to an annual recurring revenue model and that as a service approach is going to be the norm by the end of the decade. HPE's doing it with GreenLake, Dell has announced Apex, virtually every company is headed in this direction. Now speaking of HPE, it's Nimble business that has momentum, but other parts of the storage portfolio are quite a bit softer. Dell continues to see pressure on its storage business although VxRail is a bright spot. Everybody's got a bright spot, everybody's got new stuff that's growing much faster than the old stuff, the problem is the old stuff is much much bigger than the new stuff. IBM's mainframe storage cycle, well that's seems to have run its course, they had been growing for the last several quarters that looks like it's over. And so very very cyclical businesses here now as you can see, The data protection data management companies, they are showing spending momentum but they're not public so we don't have revenue data. But you got to wonder with all the money these guys have raised and the red hot IPO and tech markets, why haven't these guys gone public? The answer has to be that they're either not ready or maybe their a numbers weren't where they want them to be, maybe they're not predictable enough, maybe they don't have their operational act together or maybe they need to you get that in order, some combination of those factors is likely. They'll tell you, they'll give other answers if you ask them, but if they had their stuff together they'd be going out right now. Now here's another look at the spending data in terms of net score, which is again spending velocity. The ETR here is measuring the percent of respondents that are adopting new, spending more, spending flat, spending less or retiring the platform. So net score is adoptions, which is the lime green plus the spending more, which is the forest green. Add those two and then subtract spending less, which is the pink and then leaving the platform, which is the bright red, what's left over is net score. So, let's look at the picture here, Cohesity leads all players in the storage taxonomy, the ETR storage taxonomy, again they don't position that way, but that's the way the customers are answering. They've got 55% net score which is really solid and you can see the data in the upper right-hand corner, it's followed by Nutanix. Now they're really not again in the scope of Pure play storage play but speaking of Pure, its net score has come down from its high of 73% in January, 2016. It's not going to climb back up there, but it's going to be interesting to see if Pure net scorecard rebound in a post COVID world. We're also watching what Pure does in terms of unifying file and object and how it's fairing in cloud and what it does with the Portworx acquisition which is really designed to bring forth a new programming model. Now, Dell is doing fine with VxRail, but VSAN is well off its net score highs which we're in the 60% plus range a couple of years ago, VSAN is definitely been a factor from VMware, but again that's come off its highs, HPE with Nimble still has some room to improve, I think it actually will I think that these figures that we're showing here they're are somewhat depressed by the COVID factor, I expect Nimble is going to bounce back in future surveys. Dell and NetApp are the big leaders in terms of presence or market share in the data other than VMware, 'cause VMware has a lot of instances, it's software defined that's why they're so prominent. And with VMware's large share you'd expect them to have net scores that are tepid and you can see a similar pattern with IBM. So Dell, NetApp, tepid net scores as is IBM because of their large market share VMware, kind of a newer entry into the play and so doing pretty well there from a net score standpoint. Now Commvault like Cohesity and Rubrik is really around intelligent data management, trying to go beyond backup into business recovery, data protection, DevOps, bringing that analytics, bringing that to the cloud, we didn't put Veeam in here and we probably should have. They had pre-COVID net scores well in to the thirties and they have a steadily increasing share of the market, so we expect good things from Veeam going forward. They were acquired earlier this year by Insight, capital private equity firm. So big changes there as well, that was their kind of near-term exit maybe more to come. But look, it's all relative, this is a large and mature market that is moving to the cloud and moving to other adjacencies. And the core is still primary storage, that's the main supreme prerequisite and everything else flows from there, data protection, replication, everything else. This chart gives you another view of the competitive landscape, it's that classic XY chart it plots net score in the vertical axis and market share on the horizontal axis, market share remember is a measure of presence in the dataset. Now think about this from the CIO's perspective, they have their on-prem estate, got all this infrastructure and they're putting a brick wall around their core systems. And what do they want out of storage for that class of workload? They want it to perform consistently, they want it to be efficient and they want it to be cost-effective, so what are they going to do? they're going to consolidate, They're going to consolidate the number of vendors, they're going to consolidate the storage, they're going to minimize complexity, yeah, they're going to worry about the blast radius, but there's ways to architect around that. The last thing they want to worry about is managing a zillion storage vendors this business is consolidating, it has been for some time, we've seen the number of independent storage players that are going public as consolidated over the years, and it's going to continue. so on-prem storage arrays are not giving CIOs the innovation and strategic advantage back when things like storage virtualization, space efficient snapshots, data de-duplication and other storage services were worth maybe taking a flyer on a feature product like for example, a 3PAR or even a Data Domain. Now flash gave the CIOs more headroom and better performance and so as I said earlier, they're not just buying spindles to increase performance, so as more and more work gets pushed to the cloud, you're seeing a bunkering in on these large scale mission-critical workloads. As you saw earlier, the legacy storage market is consolidating and has been for a while as I just said, it's essentially becoming a managed decline business where RnD is going to increasingly get squeezed and go to other areas, both from the vendor community and on the buy-side where they're investing on things like cloud, containers and in building new layers in their business and of course the DX, the Digital Transformation. I mentioned VAST Data before, it is a company that's growing and another company that's growing is Infinidat and these guys are traditional storage on-prem models they don't bristle If I say traditional they're nexgen if you will but they don't own a cloud, so they were selling to the data center. Now Infinidat is focused on petabyte scale and as they say, they're growing revenues, they're having success consolidating storage that thing that I just talked about. Ironically, these are two Israeli founder based companies that are growing and you saw earlier, this is a share shift the market is not growing overall the part of that's COVID, but if you exclude cloud, the market is under pressure. Now these two companies that I'm mentioning, they're kind of the exception to the rule here, they're tiny in the grand scheme of things, they're really not going to shift the market and their end game is to get acquired so they can still share, but they're not going to reverse these trends. And every one on this chart, every on-prem player has to have a cloud strategy where they connect into the cloud, where they take advantage of native cloud services and they help extend their respective install bases into the cloud, including having a capability that is physically proximate to the cloud with a colo like an Equinix or some other approach. Now, for example at re:Invent, we saw that AWS has hybrid strategy, we saw that evolving. AWS is trying to bring AWS to the edge and they treat the data center as just another edge note, so outposts and smaller versions of outposts and things like local zones are all part of bringing AWS to the edge. And we saw a few companies Pure, Infinidant, Veeam come to mind that are connecting to outpost. They saw the Qumulo was in there, Clumio, Commvault, WekaIO is also in there and I'm sure I'm missing some so, DM me, email me, yell at me, I'm sorry I forgot you but you get the point. These companies that are selling on-prem are connecting to the cloud, they're forced to connect to the cloud much in the same way as they were forced to join the VMware ecosystem and try to add value, try to keep moving fast. So, that's what's going on here, what's the prognosis for storage in the coming year? Well, where've of all the good times gone? Look, we would never bet against data but the days of selling storage controllers that masks the deficiencies of spinning disc or add embedded hardware functions or easily picking off a legacy install base with flash, well, those days are gone. Repatriation, it ain't happening it's maybe tiny little pockets. CIOs are rationalizing their on-premises portfolios so they can invest in the cloud, AI, machine learning, machine intelligence, automation and they're re-skilling their teams. Low latency high bandwidth workloads with minimal jitter, that's the sweet spot for on-prem it's becoming the mainframe of storage. CIOs are also developing a cloud first strategy yes, the world is hybrid but what does that mean to CIOs? It means you're going to have some work in the cloud and some work on-prem, there's a hybrid We've got both. Everything that can go to the cloud, will go to the cloud, in our opinion and everything that can't or shouldn't won't. Yes, people will make mistakes and they'll "repatriate" but generally that's the trend. And the CIOs they're building an abstraction layer to connect workloads from an observability and manageability standpoint so they can maintain control and manage lock-in risk, they have options. Everything that doesn't go to the cloud will likely have some type of hybridicity to it, the reverse won't likely be the case. For vendors, cloud strategies involve supporting your install basis migration to the cloud, that's where they're going, that's where they want to go, they want your help there's business to be made there so enabling low latency hybrids in accommodating subscription models, well, that's a whole another topic, but that's the trend that we see and you rethink the business that you're in, for instance, data management and developing an edge strategy that recognizes that edge workloads are going to require new architecture and that's more efficient than what we've seen built around general purpose systems, and wow, that's a topic for another day. You're seeing this whole as a service model really reshape the entire cultures in the way in which the on-prem vendors are operating no longer is it selling a box that has dramatically marked up controllers and disc drives, it's really thinking about services that could be invoked in the cloud. Now remember, these episodes are all available as podcasts, wherever you listen, just search Breaking Analysis podcasts and please subscribe, I'd appreciate that checkout etr.plus for all the survey action. We also publish a full report every week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. A lot of ways to get in touch. You can email me at david.vellante@siliconangle.com. you could DM me @dvellante on Twitter, comment on our LinkedIn posts, I always appreciate that. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights Powered by ETR. Thanks for watching everyone stay safe and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hello everybody and welcome to this week's CUBE Insights, powered by ETR. It is Breaking Analysis, but first I'm coming to you from the floor of Cisco Live in Barcelona, and I want to talk about storage. Storage continues to be soft but there are some bright spots. I've been reporting on this for awhile now and I want to dig in and share with you some of the reasons why, maybe give you some forecasts as to what I think is going to happen in the coming months. And of course, we want to look into some of the ETR spending data, and try to parse through that and understand who's winning, who's losing, who's got the momentum, where are the tailwinds and headwinds. So the first thing I want to show you is let's get right into it. What this slide is showing here is a storage spending snapshot of net score. Now remember, net score in the ETR parlance is an indicator of momentum or spending velocity. Essentially every quarter, what ETR does is they go out to, in this case, 1100 respondents out of the 4500 dataset, and they ask them are you spending more or are you spending less. Essentially they subtract the less from the more and that constitutes net score. It's not that simple but for this purpose, that's what we're showing. Now you can see here on the left hand side, I'm showing all respondents out of 1161. You see the January survey net scores. You've got Rubrik, Cohesity, Nutanix, and Pure, and VMware vSAN are the top five. So Rubrik and Cohesity, very strong, and interesting, Rubrik was very strong last quarter. Cohesity not as strong but really shooting up. It kind of surprised me last quarter, Cohesity being a little low but they were early into the dataset and now they're starting to show what I think is really happening in the marketplace. That's a good indicator. But you can see 75 percent, 72 percent. Nutanix still very strong at 56 percent, driving that hyperconverge piece. You see Pure Storage at 44 percent, down a little bit, talk a little bit more about that in a moment. VMware vSAN, Veeam, et cetera, down the list. The thing about the left hand side and storage in general, you can see the softness. Only about one third of the suppliers are in the green, and that's a problem. If you compare this to security, probably three quarters are in the green. It's a much hotter segment. Now, look on the right hand side. The right hand side is showing what ETR calls GPP, giant, public, and private. You can see there's an N of 403. These are the largest, the very largest public and private companies, private company being a company like Mars Candy. And they say that they are the best indicators of spending momentum in the dataset. So really isolating on some of the large companies. Look what happens here. You can see Rubrik gets even stronger as does Cohesity, they're into the 80 percent range. That's really rarefied air, so very strong. You can see Nutanix drops down. It does better in the smaller companies, it appears. They drop down to 41 percent. Pure gets stronger in the GPP at 68 percent. You can see VMware's vSAN uptick to 45 percent. Nimble gets better, HPE's Nimble, to 54 percent. Dell drops down to 4.8 percent. HPE goes up to 33 percent. HPE was red in the left hand side. You can see Veeam drops, not surprising, Veeam in the biggest companies is not going to be as prevalent. We talked about that in our Breaking Analysis segment after the acquisition of Veeam. You can see NetApp bumps up a little bit but it's still kind of in that red zone. I also want to call your attention to Actifio. They're way down on the bottom in the left hand side, which kind of surprised me. And then I started digging into it because I know Actifio does better in the larger companies. In the right hand side, they pop up to 33 percent. It's only an N of three, but what I'm seeing in the marketplace is Actifio solving some really hard problems in database and copy data management. You're starting to see those results as well. But generally speaking, this picture is not great for storage, with the exception of a few players like Rubrik and Cohesity, Pure, Nutanix. And I'm going to get into that a little bit and try to explain what's going on here. The market's bifurcated. Primary storage has been on the back burner for awhile now, and I've been talking about that. The one exception to that is really been Pure. Little bit for Dell EMC coming back, we'll dig into that a little bit more but Pure has been the stand-out. They're even moderating lately, I'll talk about that some more. Secondary storage is where the market momentum is and you can see that with Rubrik and Cohesity. Again, we'll talk about that some more. Let me dig into the primary side. Cloud, as I've talked about in many Breaking Analysis segments is siphoning off demand from on-prem spend. The second big factor in storage has been there was such an injection of flash into the marketplace, it added headroom. Customers used to buy spindles to get performance, and they don't need to do that so much anymore because so much flash was pushed into the system. The third thing is you're still seeing in primary the consolidation dynamics play out with hyperconverge. So hyperconverge is the software defined bringing together of storage, compute, and networking into a single logical managed unit. That is taking share away from traditional primary storage. You're also seeing tactical NAND pricing be problematic for storage suppliers. You saw that with Pure again this past quarter. NAND pricing comes down, which you'd think would be a good thing from a component standpoint, which it is, but it also lowers prices of the systems. So that hurt Pure's revenue. Their unit volume was pretty good but you're seeing that sort of put pressure on prices, so ASPs are down, average system prices. Let's turn our attention to the secondary market for a moment. Huge injection of venture capital, like a billion dollars, half a billion dollars over the last year, and then another five billion just spent on the acquisition of Veeam. A lot of action going on there. You're seeing big TAM expansions where companies like Rubrik and Cohesity, who have garnered much of that VC spending, are really expanding the notion of data protection from back-up into data management, into analytics, into security, and things of that nature, so a much bigger emphasis on TAM expansion, of course as I talked about the M and A. Let's dig into each of these segments. The chart that I'm showing now really digs into primary storage. You can see here the big players, Pure, Dell EMC, HPE, NetApp, and IBM. And lookit, there's only company in the green, Pure. You can see they're trending down just a little bit from previous quarters but still far and away the company with most spending momentum. Again, here I'm showing net score measure of spending velocity back to the January '18 survey. You can see Dell EMC sort of fell and then is slowly coming back up. NetApp hanging in there, Dell EMC, HP, and NetApp kind of converging, and you can see IBM. IBM announced last quarter about three percent growth. I talked about that actually in September. I predicted that IBM storage would have growth because they synchronized their DS8000 high-end mainframe announcement to the z15, so you saw a little bit of uptick in IBM. Pure, as I said, 15 percent growth. I mean, if you're flat in this market or growing at three percent, you're doing pretty well, you're probably a share gainer. We'll see what happens in February when Dell EMC, HPE, and NetApp announce earnings. We'll update you at that time. So that's what you're seeing now. Same story, Pure outpacing the others, everybody else fighting for share. Let's turn our attention now to secondary storage. What I'm showing here is net score for the secondary storage players. I can't isolate on a drill down for secondary storage, last slide I could do on storage overall, but what I can show is pure plays. What's showing here is Rubrik, Cohesity, Veeam, Commvault, and Veritas. Five pure play, you can argue Veritas isn't a pure play, but I consider it a pure play data protection vendor. Look at Rubrik and Cohesity really shooting up to the right, 75 percent and 72 percent net scores, respectively. You see Veeam hanging in there. This is again, all respondents, the full 1100 dataset. Commvault announced last quarter it beat earnings but it's not growing. You can see some pressure there, and you can see Veritas under some pressure as well. You can see a net score really deep in the red, so that's cause for some concern. We'll keep watching that, maybe dig into some of the larger accounts to see how they're doing there. But you can see clear standouts with Rubrik and Cohesity. I want to look at hyperconverge now. Again, I can't drill into hyperconverge but what I can do is show some of the pure plays. So what this slide shows is the net score for some of the pure play hyperconverge vendors led by Nutanix. The relative newcomer here is vSAN with VMware. You can see Dell EMC, VxRail, and Simplivity. I would say this. A lot of the marketing push that you hear out of Dell and out of VMware says Nutanix is in big trouble, they're dying and so forth. Our data definitely shows something different. The one caution is, you can see Nutanix and larger accounts, not as strong. And you can see both vSAN and Dell EMC stronger in those larger accounts. Maybe that's kind of their bias and their observation space, but it's something that we've got to watch. But you can see the net scores here. Everybody's in the green because overall, this is a strong market. Everybody is winning. It's taking share as I said from primary. We're watching that very closely. Nutanix continues to be strong. Watching very carefully that competitive dynamic and the dynamics within those larger companies which are a bellwether. Now the big question that I want to ask here is can storage reverse the ten-year trend of the big cloud sucking sound that we have heard for the past decade. I've been reporting with data on how cloud generally has hurt that storage spend on-prem. So what I'm showing here in this slide is the net score for the cloud spenders. Many hundreds of cloud spenders in the dataset. What we're showing here is the net score, the spending velocity over the last 10 years for the leaders. You can see Dell EMC, the number one. NetApp, right there in terms of market share, IBM as well. I didn't show HPE because the slide got too busy but they'd be up there as well. So these are the big spenders, big on-prem players and you can see, well, it's up and down. The highs are lower and the lows tend to be lower. You can see on the latest surveys, maybe there's some upticks here in some of the companies. But generally speaking, the trend has been down. That siphoning away of demand from the cloud guys. Can that be reversed, and that's something that we're going to watch, so keeping an eye on that. Let me kind of summarize and I'll make some other comments here. One of the things we're going to watch here is Dell EMC, NetApp, and HPE earnings announcements in February. That's going to be a clear indicator. We'll look for what's happening with overall demand, what the growth trajectory looks like, and very importantly, what NAND pricing looks like. As a corollary to that, we're going to be watching elasticity. I firmly believe as prices go down, that more storage is going to bought. That's always been the case. Flash is still only about 20, 25, 30 percent of the market, about 30 percent of the spending, about 20 percent of the terabytes. But as prices come down, expect people to buy more. That's always been the case. If there's an elasticity of demand, it hasn't shown up in the earning statements, and that's a bit of a concern. But we'll keep an eye on that. We're also going to watch the cloud siphoning demand from on-prem spend. Can the big players and guys like Pure and others, new start-ups maybe, reverse that trend. Multi-cloud, there's an opportunity for these guys. Multi-cloud management, TAM expansion into new areas. Actually delivering services in the cloud. You saw Pure announce block storage in the cloud. So that's kind of interesting that we'll watch. Other players may be getting into the data protection space, but as it relates to the cloud, one of the things I'm watching very closely is the TAM expansion of the cloud players. What do I mean by that. Late last year, Amazon announced a broader set of products or services really in its portfolio. Let's watch for Amazon's moves and other big cloud players into the storage space. I fully expect they're going to want to get a bigger piece of that pie. Remember, much if not most of Amazon's revenue comes from compute. They really haven't awakened to the great storage opportunity that's out there. Why is that important. You saw this play out on-prem. Servers became a really tough market. Intel made all the money. Amazon is a huge customer of Intel, and Intel's getting a big piece of Amazon's EC2 business. That's why you see, in part, Amazon getting into its own chip design. I mean, in the server business, you're talking about low gross margin business. If you're in the 20s or low 30s, you're thrilled. Pure last quarter had 70 plus percent gross margins. It's been a 60 plus percent gross margin business consistently. You're going to see the cloud guys wake up to that and try to grab even more share. It's going to be interesting to see how the traditional on-prem vendors respond to that. Coming into last decade, you saw tons of start-ups but only two companies really reached escape velocity: Nutanix and Pure. At the beginning of the century, you saw Data Domain, Isilon, Compellent, 3PAR all went public. EqualLogic and LeftHand got taken out. There are a bunch of other companies that got acquired. Storage was really a great market. Coming into this decade, mid part of the decade, you had lots of VC opportunity here. You had Fusion and Violin, Intentury went public. They all flamed out. You had a big acquisition with SolidFire, almost a billion dollars, but really Pure and Nutanix were the only ones to make it, so the question is, are you going to see anyone reach escape velocity in the next decade, and where's that going to come from. The likely players today would be Cohesity and Rubrik. Those unicorns would be the opportunity. You could argue Veeam, I guess reached it, but hard to tell because Veeam's a private company. By escape velocity, we're talking large companies who go public, have a big exit in the public market and become transparent so we really know what's going on there. Will it come from a cloud or a cloud native play. We'll see. Are there others that might emerge, like a Nebulon or a Clumio. A company like Infinidat's doing well, will they hit escape velocity and do an IPO and again, become more transparent. That's again something that we're watching, but you're clearly seeing moves up the stack where there's a lot more emphasis in spending on cloud, cloud native. We clearly saw it with hyperconverge consolidation but up the stack towards the apps, really driving digital transformations. People want to spend less on heavy lifting like storage. They're always going to need storage. But is it going to be the same type of market it has been for the last 30 or 40 years, of great investment opportunities. We're starting to see that wane but we'll keep track of it. Thank you for watching this Breaking Analysis, this is CUBE Insights powered by ETR. This is Dave Vellante. We'll see you next time.