(upbeat music) >> Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome back to the CUBE's day one coverage of VMware Explorer 22, live from San Francisco. I'm Lisa Martin. Dave Nicholson is back with me. Welcome back to the set. We're pleased to welcome William Bell as our next guest. The executive vice president of products at Phoenix NAP. William, welcome to the CUBE. Welcome back to the CUBE. >> Thank you, thank you so much. Happy to be here. >> Talk to us a little, and the audience a little bit about Phoenix NAP. What is it that you guys do? Your history, mission, value prop, all that good stuff. >> Absolutely, yeah. So we're global infrastructures as a service company, foundationally, we are trying to build pure play infrastructure as a service, so that customers that want to adopt cloud infrastructure but maybe don't want to adopt platform as a service and really just, you know, program themselves to a specific API can have that cloud adoption without that vendor lock in of a specific platform service. And we're doing this in 17 regions around the globe today. Yeah, so it's just flexible, easy. That's where we're at. >> I like flexible and easy. >> Flexible and easy. >> You guys started back in Phoenix. Hence the name. Talk to us a little bit about the evolution of the company in the last decade. >> Yeah, 100%. We built a data center in Phoenix expecting that we could build the centralized network access point of Phoenix, Arizona. And I am super proud to say that we've done that. 41 carriers, all three hyperscalers in the building today, getting ready to expand. However, that's not the whole story, right. And what a lot of people don't know is we founded an infrastructure as a service company, it's called Secured Servers no longer exists, but we founded that company the same time and we built it up kind of sidecar to Phoenix NAP and then we merged all of those together to form this kind of global infrastructure platform that customers can consume. >> Talk to us about the relationship with VMware. Obviously, here we are at VMware Explore. There's about seven... We're hearing 7,000 to 10,000 people here. People are ready to be back to hear from VMware and it's partner ecosystem. >> Yeah, I mean, I think that we have this huge history with VMware that maybe a lot of people don't know. We were one of the first six, the SPPs in 2011 at the end of the original kind of data center, whatever, vCloud data center infrastructure thing that they did. And so early on, there was only 10 of us, 11 of us. And most of those names don't exist anymore. We're talking, Terramark, Blue Lock, some of these guys. Good companies, but they've been bought or whatnot. And here's plucky Phoenix NAP, still, you know, offering great VMware cloud services for customers around the globe. >> What are some of the big trends that you're seeing in the market today where customers are in this multi-cloud world? You know this... I love the theme of this event. The center of the multi-cloud universe. Customers are in that by default. How do you help them navigate that and really unlock the value of it? >> Yeah, I think for us, it's about helping customers understand what applications belong where. We're very, very big believers both in the right home. But if you drill down on that right home for right applicator or right application, right home, it's more about the infrastructure choices that you're making for that application leads to just super exciting optimizations, right. If you, as an example, have a large media streaming business and you park it in a public called hyperscaler and you just eat those egress fees, like it's a big deal. Right? And there are other ways to do that, right. If you need a... If your application needs to scale from zero cores to 15,000 cores for an hour, you know, there are hyperscalers for that, right. And people need to learn how to make that choice. Right app, right home, right infrastructure. And that's kind of what we help them do. >> It's interesting that you mentioned the concept of being a pure play in infrastructure as a service. >> Yeah. >> At some point in the past, people would have argued that infrastructure as a service only exists because SaaS isn't good enough yet. In other words, if there's a good enough SaaS application then you don't want IaaS because who wants to mess around with IaaS, infrastructures as a service. Do you have customers who look at what they're developing as so much a core of what their value proposition is that they want to own it? I mean, is that a driving factor? >> I would challenge to say that we're seeing almost every enterprise become a SaaS company. And when that transition happens, SaaS companies actually care a lot about the cost basis, efficiency, uptime of their application. And ultimately, while they don't want to be in the data center business anymore, it doesn't mean that they want to pay someone else to do things that they feel wholly competent in doing. And we're seeing this exciting transition of open source technologies, open source platforms becoming good enough that they don't actually have to manage a lot of things. They can do it in software and the hardware's kind of abstracted. But that actually, I would say is a boon for infrastructure as a service, as an independent thing. It's been minimized over the years, right. People talk about hyperscalers as being cloud infrastructure companies and they're not. They're cloud platform companies, right. And the infrastructure is high quality. It is easy to access and scale, right, but it's ultimately, if you're just using one of those hyperscalers for that infrastructure, building VMs and doing a bunch of things yourself, you're not getting the value out of that hyperscaler. And ultimately that infrastructure's very expensive if you look at it that way. >> So it's interesting because if you look at what infrastructure consists of, which is hardware and software-- >> Yeah. >> People who said, eh, IaaS as is just a bridge to a bright SaaS future, people also will make the argument that the hardware doesn't matter anymore. I imagine that you are doing a lot of optimization with both hardware and stuff like the VMware cloud stack that you deploy as a VCPP partner. >> Absolutely, yeah. >> So to talk about that. >> Absolutely. >> I mean, you agree. I mean, if I were to just pose a question to you, does hardware still matter? Does infrastructure still matter? >> Way more than people think. >> Well, there you go. So what are you doing in that arena, specifically with VCPP? >> Yeah, absolutely. And so I think a good example of that, right, so last VMworld in person, 2019, we showcased a piece of technology that we had been working with Intel on for about two years at the time which was Intel persistent memory DC, persistent memory. Right? And we launched the first VMware cloud offering to have Intel DC persistent memory onboard. So that customers with the VMs that needed that technology could leverage it with the integrations in vSphere 6.7 and ultimately in seven more, right. Now I do think that was maybe a swing and a miss technology potentially but we're going to see it come back. And that specialized infrastructure deployment is a big part of our business, right. Helping people identify, you know, this application, if you'd have this accelerator, this piece of infrastructure, this quality of network can be better, faster, cheaper, right. That kind of mentality of optimization matters a lot. And VMware plays a critical role in that because it still gives the customer the operational excellence that they need without having to do everything themselves, right. And our customers rely on that a lot from VMware to get that whole story, operationally efficient, easy to manage, automated. All those things make a lot of difference to our VMware customers. >> Speaking of customers, what are you hearing, if anything, from customers, VMware customers that are your joint customers about the Broadcom acquisition? Are they excited about it? Are they concerned about it? And how do you talk about that? >> Yeah, I mean, I think that everyone that's in the infrastructure business is doing business with Broadcom, all right. And we've had so many businesses that we've been engaged with that have ultimately been a acquiree. I can say that this one feels different only in the size of the acquisition. VMware carries so much weight. VMware's brand exceeds Broadcom's brand, in my opinion. And I think ultimately, I don't know anything that's not public, right-- >> Well, they rebranded. By the way, on the point of brand, they rebranded their software business, VMware. >> Yeah. I mean, that's what I was going to say. That was the word on the street. I don't know if there's beneficial. Is that a-- >> Well, that's been-- >> But that's the word, right? >> That's what they've said. Well, but when a Avago acquired Broadcom they said, "we'll call ourselves Broadcom." >> Absolutely. Why wouldn't you? >> So yeah. So I imagine that what's been reported is likely-- >> Likely. Yeah, I 100% agree. I think that makes a ton of sense and we can start to see even more great intellectual property in software. That's where, you know, all of these businesses, CA, Symantec, VMware and all of the acquisitions that VMware has made, it's a great software intellectual property platform and they're going to be able to get so much more value out of the leadership team that VMware has here, is going to make a world of difference to the Broadcom software team. Yeah, so I'm very excited, you know. >> It's a lot of announcements this morning, a lot of technical product announcements. What did you hear in that excites you about the evolution of VMware as well as the partnership and the value in it for your customers? >> You know, one of our fastest growing parts of our business is this metal as a service infrastructure business and doing very, very... Using very specific technologies to do very interesting things, makes a big difference in our world and for our customers. So anything that's like smartNICs, disaggregated hypervisor, accelerators as a first class citizen in VMware, all that stuff makes the Phoenix NAP story better. So I'm super excited about that, right. Yeah. >> Well, it's interesting because VCPP is not a term that people who are not insiders know of. What they know is that there are services available in hyperscale cloud providers where you can deploy VMware. Well, you know, VMware cloud stack. Well, you can deploy those VMware cloud stacks with you. >> Absolutely. >> In exactly the same manner. However, to your point, all of this talk about disaggregation of CPU, GPU, DPU, I would argue with it, you're in a better position to deploy that in an agile way than a hyperscale cloud provider would be and foremost, I'm not trying to-- >> No, yeah. >> I'm not angling for a job in your PR department. >> Come on in. >> But the idea that when you start talking about something like metal as a service, as an adjunct or adjacent to a standard deployment of a VMware cloud, it makes a lot of sense. >> Yeah. >> Because there are people who can't do everything within the confines of what the STDC-- >> Yes. >> Consists of. >> Absolutely. >> So, I mean... Am I on the right track? >> No, you are 100% hitting it. I think that that point you made about agility to deliver new technology, right, is a key moment in our kind of delivery every single year, right. As a new chip comes out, Intel chip or Accelerator or something like that, we are likely going to be first to market by six months potentially and possibly ever. Persistent memory never launched in public cloud in any capacity but we have customers running on it today that is providing extreme value for their business, right. When, you know, the discreet GPUs coming from the just announced Flex series GPU from Intel, you're likely not going to see them in public cloud hyperscalers quickly, right. Over time, absolutely. We'll have them day one. Isolate came out, you could get it in our metal as a service platform the morning it launched on demand, right. Those types of agility points, they're not... Because they're hyperscale by nature. If they can't hyperscale it, they're not doing it, right. And I think that that is a very key point. Now, as it comes in towards VMware, we're driving this intersection of building that VCF or VMware cloud foundation which is going to be a key point of the VMware ecosystem. As you see this transition to core based licensing and some of the other things that have been talked about, VMware cloud foundation is going to be the stack that they expect their customers to adopt and deliver. And the fact that we can automate that, deliver it instantaneously in a couple of hours to hardware that you don't need to own, into networks you don't need to manage, but yet you are still in charge, keys to the kingdom, ready to go, just like you're doing it in your own data center, that's the message that we're driving for. >> Can you share a customer example that you think really just shines a big flashlight on the value that you guys are delivering? >> We definitely, you know, we had the pleasure of working with Make-A-Wish foundation for the last seven years. And ultimately, you know, we feel very compelled that every time we help them do something unique, different or what not, save money, that money's going into helping some child that's in need, right. And so we've done so many things together. VMware has stepped up as the plate over the years, done so many things with them. We've sponsored stuff. We've done grants, we've done all kinds of things. The other thing I would say is we are helping the City of Hope and Translational Genomics Research Institute on sequencing single cell RNA so that they can fight COVID, so that they can build cure, well, not cures but build therapies for colon cancer and things like that. And so I think that, you know, this is a driving light for us internally is helping people through efficiency and change. And that's what we're looking for. We're looking for more stories like that. We're looking... If you have a need, we're looking for people to come to us and say, "this is my problem. This is what this looks like. Let us see if we can find a solution that's a little bit different, a little bit out of the box and doesn't have to change your business dramatically." Yeah. >> And who are you talking to within customers? Is this a C level conversation? >> Yeah, I mean, I would say that we would love it to be... I think most companies would love to have that, you know, CFO conversation with every single customer. I would say VPs of engineering, increasingly, especially as we become more API centric, those guys are driving a lot of those purchasing decisions. Five years ago, I would've said director of IT, like director of IT. Now today, it's like VP of engineering, usually software oriented folks looking to deliver some type of application on top of a piece of hardware or in a cloud, right. And those guys are, you know, I guess, that's even another point, VMware's doing so much work on the API side that they don't get any credit for. Terraform, Ansible, all these integrations, VMware doing so much in this area and they just don't get any credit for it ever, right. It's just like, VMware's the dinosaur and they're just not, right. But that's the thing that people think of today because of the hype of the hyperscaler. I think that's... Yeah. >> When you're in customer conversations, maybe with prospects, are you seeing more customers that have gone all in on a hyperscaler and are having issues and coming to you guys saying help, this is getting way too expensive? >> Yeah, I think it's the unexpected growth problem or even the expected growth problem where they just thought it would be okay, but they've suffered some type of competitive pressure that they've had to optimize for and they just didn't really expect it. And so, I think that increasingly we are finding organizations that quickly adopted public cloud. If they did a full digital transformation of their business and then transformation of their applications, a lot of them now feel very locked in because every application is just reliant on x hyperscaler forever, or they didn't transform anything and they just migrated and parked it. And the bills that are coming in are just like, whoa like, how is that possible? We are typically never recommending get out of the public cloud. We are just... It's not... If I say the right home for the right application, it's by default saying that there are right applications for hyperscalers. Parking your VMware environment that you just migrated to a hyperscaler, not the right application. You know, I would love you to be with me but if you want to do that, at least go to VMC on AWS or go to OCVS or GCVE or any of those. If that's going to go with a Google or an Amazon and that's just the mandate and you're going to move your applications, don't just move them into native. Move them into a VMware solution and then if you still want to make that journey, that full transformation, go ahead and make it. I would still argue that that's not the most efficient way but, you know, if you're going to do anything, don't just dump it all into cloud, the native hyperscaler stuff. >> Good advice. >> So what do typical implementations look like with you guys when you're moving on premises environments into going back to the VCPP, STDC model? >> Absolutely. Do you have people moving and then transforming and re-platforming? What does that look like? What's the typical-- >> Yeah. I mean, I do not believe that anybody has fully made up their mind if exactly where they want to be. I'm only going to be in this cloud. It's an in the close story, right. And so even when we get customers, you know, we firmly believe that the right place to just pick up and migrate is to a VCPP cloud. Better cost effectiveness, typically better technology, you know service, right. Better service, right. We've been part of VMware for 12 years. We love the technology behind VMC's, now AWS is fantastic, but it's still just infrastructure without any help at all right, right. They're going to be there to support their technology but they're not going to help you with the other stuff. We can do some of those things. And if it's not us, it's another VCPP provider that has that expertise that you might need. So yes, we help you quickly, easily migrate everything to a VMware cloud. And then you have a decision point to make. You're happy where you are, you are leveraging public cloud for a certain applications. You're leveraging VMware cloud offerings for the standard applications that you've been running for years. Do you transform them? Do you keep them? What do you do? All those decisions can be made later. But I stress that repurchasing all your hardware again, staying inside your colo and doing everything yourself, it is for me, it's like a company telling me they're going to build a data center for themselves, single tenant data center. Like no one's doing that, right. But there are more options out there than just I'm going to go to Azure, right. Think about it. Take the time, assess the landscape. And VMware cloud providers as a whole, all 17,000 of us or whatever across the globe, people don't know that group of individuals of the companies is the third or fourth potentially largest cloud in the world. Right? That's the power of the VMware cloud provider ecosystem. >> Last question for you as we wrap up here. Where can the audience go to learn more about Phoenix NAP and really start test driving with you guys? >> Absolutely. Well, if you come to phoenixnap.com, I guarantee you that we will re-target you and you can click on a banner later if you don't want to stay there. (Lisa laughs) But yeah, phoenixnap.com has all the information that you need. We also put out tons of helpful content. So if you're looking for anything technology oriented and you're just, "I want to upgrade to Ubuntu," you're likely going to end up on a phoenixnap.com website looking for that. And then you can find out more about what we do. >> Awesome, phoenixnap.com. William, thank you very much for joining Dave and me, talking about what you guys are doing, what you're enabling customers to achieve as the world continues to evolve at a very dynamic pace. We appreciate your insights. >> Absolutely, thank you so much >> For our guest and Dave Nicholson, I'm Lisa Martin. You've been watching the CUBE live from VMware Explorer, 2022. Dave and I will be joined by a guest consultant for our keynote wrap at the end of the day in just a few minutes. So stick around. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: theCUBE presents Kubecon and Cloudnativecon Europe, 2022. Brought to you by Red Hat, the cloud native computing foundation and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome to Valencia, Spain in Kubecon, Cloudnativecon Europe 2022. I'm Keith Townsend and alongside Enrico senior IT analyst for (indistinct). Welcome back to the show Enrico. >> Thank you again for having me here. >> First impressions of Kubecon. >> Well, great show. As I mentioned before, I think that we are really in this very positive mood of talking with each other and people wanting to see the projects, people that build the projects and it's amazing. A lot of interesting conversation in the show floor and in the various sessions, very positive mood. >> So this is going to be a fun one, we have some amazing builders on the show this week and none other than William Morgan, CEO of Buoyant. What's your role in the Linkerd project? >> So I was one of the original creators of Linkerd, but at this point I'm just the beautiful face of the project. (all laughing) >> Speaking of beautiful face of the project Linkerd just graduated from as a CNCF project. >> Yeah, that's right so last year we became the first service mesh to graduate in the CNCF, very proud of that and that's thanks largely to the incredible community around Linkerd that is just excited about the project and wants to talk about it and wants to be involved. >> So let's talk about the significance of that. Linkerd not the only service mesh project out there. Talk to me about the level effort to get it to the point that it's graduated. You don't see too many projects graduating CNCF in general so let's talk about kind of the work needed to get Linkerd to this point. >> Yeah so the bar is high and it's mostly a measure, not necessarily of like the project being technically good or bad or anything but it's really a measure of maturity of the community around it so is it being adopted by organizations that are really relying on it in a critical way? Is it being adopted across industries? Is it having kind of a significant impact on the Cloudnative community? And so for us there was the work involved in that was really not any different from the work involved in kind of maintaining Linkerd and growing the community in the first place, which is you try and make it really useful. You try and make it really easy to get started with, you try and be supportive and to have a friendly and welcoming community. And if you do those things and you kind of naturally get yourself to the point where it's a really strong community full of people who are excited about it. >> So from the point of view of users adopting this technology, so we are talking about everybody or do you see really large organization, large Kubernetes clusters infrastructure adopting it? >> Yeah, so the answer to that is changed a little bit over time but at this point we see Linkerd adoption across industries, across verticals, and we see it from very small companies to very large ones so one of the talks I'm really excited about at this conference is from the folks at Xbox cloud gaming who are going to talk about how they deployed Linkerd across 22,000 pods around the world to serve basically on demand video games. Never a use case I would ever have imagined for Linkerd and at the previous Kubecon virtually Kubecon EU, we had a whole keynote about how Linkerd was used to combat COVID 19. So all sorts of uses and it really doesn't, whether it's a small cluster or large cluster it's equally applicable. >> Wow so as we talk about Linkerd service mesh we obviously are going to talk about security, application control, etcetera. But in this climate software supply chain is critical and you think about open source software supply chain, talk to us about the recent security audit of Linkerd. >> Yeah so one of the things that we do as part of a CNCF project and also as part of, I think our relationship with our community is we have regular security audits where we engage security professionals who are very thorough and dig into all the details. Of course the source code is all out there, so anyone can read through the code but they'll build threat model analysis and things like that. And then we take their report and we publish it. We say, "Hey look, here's the situation." So we have earlier reports online and this newest one was done by a company called Trail of Bits and they built a whole threat model and looked through all the different ways that Linkerd could go wrong and they always find issues of course, it would be very scary, I think, to get a report that was like, no, we didn't find- >> Yeah everything's clean. >> Yeah everything's fine, should be okay, I don't know. But they did not find anything critical. They found some issues that we rapidly addressed and then everything gets written up in the report and then we publish it, as part of an open source artifact. >> How do you, let's say, do they give you and adds up something? So if something happens so that you can act on the code before somebody else discovers the- >> Yeah, they'll give you a preview of what they found and then often it's not like you're going before the judge and the judge makes a judgment and then like off to jail, it's a dialogue because they don't necessarily understand the project. Well, they definitely don't understand it as well as you do. So you are helping them understand which parts are interesting to look at from the security perspective, which parts are not that interesting. They do their own investigation of course but it's a dialogue the entire time. So you do have an opportunity to say, "Oh you told me that was a a minor issue. "I actually think that's larger or vice versa." You think that's a big problem actually, we thought about that and it's not a big problem because of whatever. So it's a collaborative process. >> So Linkerd been around, like when I first learned about service mesh Linkerd was the project that I learned about. It's been there for a long time, just mentioned 22,000 clusters. That's just mind boggling- >> Pods, 22,000 pods. >> That's pods. >> Clusters would be great. >> Yeah, clusters would be great too but it filled 22,000 pods. >> It's a big deployment. >> That's a big deployment of Linkerd, but all the way down to the smallest set of pods as well. What are some of the recent project updates some of the learnings you bought back from the community and updated the project as a result? >> Yeah so a big one for us, on the topic of security, Linkerd, a big driver of Linkerd adoption is security and less on the supply chain side and more on the traffic, like live traffic security. So things like mutual TLS, so you can encrypt the communication between pods and make sure it's authenticated. One of the recent feature additions is authorization policy so you can lock down connections between services and you can say Service A is only allowed to talk to Service B and I want to do that not based on network identity, not based on like IP addresses, 'cause those are spoofable and we've kind of like as an industry moved, we've gotten a little more advanced from that but actually based on the workload identity as captured by the mutual TLS certificate exchange. So we give you the ability now to restrict the types of communication that are allowed to happen on your cluster. >> So, okay this is what happened. What about the future? Can you give us into suggestion on what is going to happen in the medium and long term? >> I think we're done you know we graduated, so we're just going to stop. (all laughing) What else is there to do? There's no grad school. No, so for us, there's a clear roadmap ahead continuing down the security realm, for sure. We've given you kind of the very first building block which at the service level, but coming up in the 2.12 release we'll have route based policy as well, as you can say this service is only allowed to call these three routes on this end point. And we'll be working later to do things like mesh expansions so we can run the data plane outside of Kubernetes, so the control plane will stay in Kubernetes but the data plane will, you'll be able to run that on Vms and things like that. And then of course in the, we're also starting to look at things like, I like to make a fun of (indistinct) a lot but we are actually starting to look at (indistinct) in the ways that that might actually be useful for Linkerd users. >> So we talk a lot about the flexibility of a project like Linkerd you can do amazing things with it from a security perspective but we're talking still to a DevOps type cloud of developers who are spread thin across their skillset. How do you help balance the need for the flexibility which usually comes with more nerd knobs and servicing a crowd that wants even higher levels of abstraction and simplicity. >> Yeah, that's a great question and this is what makes Linkerd so unique in the service mesh spaces. We have a laser focus on simplicity and especially on operational simplicity so our audience, we can make it easy to install Linkerd but what we really care about is when you're running it and you're on call for it and it's sitting in this critical, vulnerable part of your infrastructure, do you feel confident in that? Do you feel like you understand it? Do you feel like you can observe it? Do you feel like you can predict what it's going to do? And so every aspect of Linkerd is designed to be as operationally simple as possible. So when we deliver features, that's always our primary consideration, is we have to reject the urge, we have an urge as engineers to like want to build everything, it's an ultimate platform to solve all problems and we have to really be disciplined and say we're not going to do that, we're going to look at solving the minimum possible problem with a minimum set are features because we need to keep things simple and then we need to look at the human aspect to that. And I think that's been a part of Linkerd's success. And then on the Buoyant side, of course, I don't just work on Linkerd, I also work on Buoyant which helps organizations adopt Linkerd and increasingly large organizations that are not service mesh experts don't want to be service mesh experts, they want to spend their time and energy developing their business, right? And building the business logic that powers their company. So for them we have actually recently introduced, fully managed Linkerd where we can take on, even though Linkerd has to run on your cluster, the sidecar proxies has to be alongside your application. We can actually take on the operational burden of upgrades and trust income rotation, and installation. And you could effectively treat it as a utility, and have a hosted-like experience even though the actual bits, at least most of them not all of them, most of 'em have to live on your cluster. >> I love the focus of most CNCF projects, it's peanut butter or jelly, not peanut butter trying to be become jelly. What's the peanut butter to Linkerd's jelly? Like where does Linkerd stop? And some of the things that customers should really consider when looking at service mesh? >> Yeah, now that's a great way of looking at it and I actually think that philosophy comes from Kubernetes. I think Kubernetes itself, one of the reasons it was so successful is because it had some clearly delineated boundaries. It said, "This is what we're going to do. "And this is what we're not going to do. "So we're going to do layer three, four networking, "but we're going to stop there, "we're not going to do anything with layer seven." And that allowed the service mesh. So I guess if I were to go down the bread of the sandwich is Kubernetes, and then Linkerd is the peanut butter, I guess. And then the jelly, so I think the jelly is every other aspect of of building a platform. So if you are the audience for Linkerd most of the time is a platform owners. They're building a platform an internal platform for their developers to write code and so, as part of that, of course you've got Kubernetes, you've got Linkerd, but you've also got a CICD system. You've also got a code repository that's GitLab or or GitHub or whatever, you've got other kind of tools that are enforcing various other constraints. All of that is the jelly in the, this is analogy it's getting complicated now, and like the platform sandwich that you're serving. >> So talk to us about trans and service mesh from the, as we think of the macro. >> Yeah, so it's been an interesting space because, we were talking a little bit about this before the show but, there was so much buzz and then what we saw was basically it took two years for that buzz to become actual adoption and now a lot of the buzz is off on other exciting things and the people who remain in the Linkerd space are very focused on, "Oh, I actually have a real problem "that I need to solve "and I need to solve it now." So that's been great. So in terms of broader trends, I think one thing we've seen for sure is the service mesh space is kind of notorious for complexity, and a lot of what we've been doing on the Linkerd side has been trying to reverse that idea, because it doesn't actually have to be complex. There's interesting stuff you can do, especially when you get into the way we handle the sidecar model. It's actually really, it's a wonderful model operationally. It's really, it feels weird at first and then you're like, "Oh, actually this makes my operations a lot easier." So a lot of the trends that I see at least for Linkerd is doubling down on the sidecar model trying to make side cars as small and as thin as possible and try and make them kind of transparent to the rest of the application. >> Well, William Morgan, one of the coolest Twitter handles I've seen at WM on Twitter, that's actually a really cool Twitter handle. >> William: Thank you. >> CEO of Buoyant. Thank you for joining theCube again, Cube alum. From Valencia Spain, I'm Keith Towns, along with Enrico's (indistinct) and you're watching theCube, the leader in high tech coverage. (upbeat music)

>>The cube presents, Coon and cloud native con Europe 22, brought to you by the cloud native computing foundation. >>Welcome to vincia Spain in Coon cloud native con Europe, 2022. I'm Keith towns alongside en Rico senior. Etti senior it analyst for giong welcome back to the show en >>Rico. Thank you again for having me here. >>First impressions of QAN. >>Well, great show. As, as I mentioned before, I think that we are really in this very positive mode of talking with each other and people wanting to see, you know, the projects, people that build the projects at it's amazing. I mean, a lot of interesting conversation in the show floor and in the various sessions, very positive move. >>So this is gonna be a fun one. We have some amazing builders on the show this week, and none other than William Morgan, CEO of buoyant. What's your role in the link D project? >>So I was one of the original creators of link D but at this point I'm just the, the beautiful face of the project. >>Speaking of beautiful face of the project, linker D just graduated from as a CNCF project. >>Yeah, that's right. So last year we, we became the first service mesh to graduate in the CNCF. Very proud of that. And that's thanks, you know, largely to the incredible community around Linky that is just excited about the project and, you know, wants to talk about it and wants to be involved. >>So let's talk about the significance of that link D not the only service mesh project out there. Talk to me about the level effort to get it to the point that it's graduated. That's you don't see too many projects graduating CNCF in general. So let's talk about kind of the work needed to get Nier D to this point. >>Yeah. So, you know, the, the, the bar is high and it's mostly a measure, not necessarily of like the, the project being technically good or bad or anything, but it's really a measure of maturity of the community around it. So is it being adopted by organizations that are really relying on it in a critical way? Is it, you know, being adopted across industries, you know, is it having kind of a significant impact on the cloud native community? And so for us, you know, there was the, the work involved in that was really not any different from the work involved in, in kind of maintaining ity and growing the community in the first place, which is you try and make it really useful. You try and make it really easy to get started with you, try and be supportive and to, you know, have a, a friendly and welcoming community. And if you do those things and, you know, you kind of naturally get yourself to the point where it's a, it's a really strong community full of people who are excited about it. >>So from the of view of, you know, users adopting the, this technology, so we are talking about everybody, or do you see really, you know, large organization, large Kubernetes yeah. Clusters infrastructure adopting it. >>Yeah. So that's the answer to that is changed a little bit over time. But at this point we see Linky adoption across industries, across verticals, and we see it from very small companies to very large ones. So, you know, one of the talks I'm really excited about at this conference is from the folks at Xbox cloud gaming, who talked about, who are gonna talk about how they deployed Linky across, you know, 22,000 pods around the world to serve, you know, basically on demand video games, never a use case I would ever have imagined for Linky. And at the previous Kuan, you know, virtually Kuan EU, we had a whole keynote about how Linky was used to combat COVID 19. So all sorts of uses. And it really doesn't, you know, whether, whether it's a small cluster or large cluster it's equally applicable. >>Wow. So as we talk about link D service match, we obviously are gonna talk about security application control, etcetera. But in this climate Software supply chain is critical, right. And as we think about open source software supply chain, talk to us about the recent security audit of link dealer. >>Yeah. So one of the things that we do as part of a CNCF project, and also as part of, I, I think our relationship with our community is we have regular security audits, you know, where we, we engage security professionals who are very thorough and, you know, dig into all the details. Of course the source code is all out there, you know, so anyone can read through the code, but they'll build threat model analyses and things like that. And then we take their, their report and we publish it. We say, Hey, look, here's, you know, here's the situation. So we have earlier reports online, and this newest one was done by a company called trail of bits. And they built a whole threat model and looked through all the different ways that Linky could go wrong. And they always find issues. Of course, you know, it's, it would be very scary, I think, to get a report that was like, no, we didn't find yeah. Earth clean, you know? Yeah. Everything's fine. You know, should be okay. I don't know. Right. But they, you know, they did not find anything critical. They found some issues that we rapidly addressed and then, you know, everything gets written up in the report and, and then we publish it, you know, as part of an open source artifact >>Are, you let's say, you know, do they give you and add something? So if something happens so that you can act on the code before, you know, somebody else discovers the >>Yeah, yeah. They'll give you a preview of what they found. And then often, you know, it's not like you're going before the judge and the judge makes a judgment and then like off the jail, right. It's, it's a dialogue because they don't necessarily understand the project. Well, they definitely don't understand it as well as you do. So you are helping them, you know, understand which parts and, and your, you know, are, are interesting to look at from the security perspective, which parts are not that interesting. They do their own investigation of course, but it's a dialogue the entire time. So you do have an opportunity to say, oh, you told me that was a, a, a minor issue. I actually think that's larger or, or vice versa. You know, you, you think that's a big problem. Actually, we thought about that, and it's not a big problem because of whatever. So it's a collaborative process. >>So link D been around, like, when I first learned about service me link D was the project that I learned about. Yeah. It's been there for a long time, but just mentioned 22,000 clusters. That's just mind boggling pod, 22,000 pods, the pods. Okay. >>Clusters would be >>Great. Yeah. Yeah. Clusters would be great too, but filled 22 thousands pods, big deployment. That's the big deployment of link D but all the way down to the small, smallest set of pods as well. What are some of the recent project updates from of the learnings you bought back from the community and updated the, the project as a result? >>Yeah. So a big one for us, you know, on the topic of security link, a big driver of link adoption is security and, and less on the supply chain side and more on the traffic, like live traffic security. So things like mutual TLS. So you can encrypt the communication between pods and make sure it's authenticated. One of the recent feature additions is authorization policy. So you can lock down connections between services and you can say service a is only allowed to talk to service B. And I wanna do that. Not based on network identity, you know, and not based on like IP addresses, cuz those are spoof. And you know, we've kind of like as an industry moved, moved, we've gotten a little more advanced from that, but actually based on the workload identity, you know, as captured by the mutual TLS certificate exchange. So we give you the ability now to, to, to restrict the types of communication that are allowed to happen on your cluster. >>So, okay. This is what happened. What about the future? Can you give us, you know, into suggestion of what is going to happen in the medium and long term? >>I think we're done, you know, we graduated, so we're just gonna >>Stop there's >>What else is there to do? There's no grad school, you know? No, no. So for us, there's a clear roadmap ahead, continuing down the, the security realm, for sure. We've given you kind of the very first building block, which at the service level, but coming up in, in the two point 12 release, we'll have route based policy as well, as you can say, this service is only allowed to call these three, you know, routes on this end point and we'll be working later to do things like mesh expansion so we can run the data plane outside of Kubernetes. You know, so the control plane will stay in in Kubernetes, but the data plane will, you'll be able to run that on VMs and, and, and things like that. And then of course in the, you know, we're also starting to look at things like I like to make a fun of WAM a lot, but we are actually starting to look at WAM in, in the ways that that might actually be useful for Linky users. >>So we talk a lot about the flexibility of a project, like link D you can do amazing things with it from a security perspective, but we're talking still to a DevOps type cloud of, of, of developers who are spread thin across their skillset. How do you help balance the need for the flexibility, which usually becomes more nerd knobs and servicing a crowd that wants even higher levels of abstraction and simplicity. >>Yeah. Yeah. That's a great question. And this is, this is what makes Linky so unique in the service mesh spaces. We have a laser focus on simplicity and especially on operational simplicity. So our audience, you know, we can make it easy to install Linky, but what we really care about is when you're running it and you're on call for it and it's sitting in this critical, vulnerable part of your infrastructure, do you feel confident in that? Do you feel like you understand it? Do you feel like you can observe it? Do you feel like you can predict what it's gonna do? And so every aspect of Linky is designed to be as operationally simple as possible. So when we deliver features, you know, that's always our, our primary consideration is, you know, we have to reject the urge. You know, we have an urge as, as engineers to like want to build everything, you know, it's an ultimate platform to solve all problems and we have to really be disciplined and say, we're not gonna do that. >>We're gonna look at solving the minimum possible problem with a minimum set of features because we need to keep things simple. And, and then we need to look at the human aspect to that. And I think that's been a part of, of Link's success. And then on the buoyant side, of course, you know, I don't just work on link day. I also work on, on buoyant, which helps organizations adopt Linky and, and increasingly large organizations that are not service mesh experts don't wanna be service mesh experts that, you know, they wanna spend their time and energy developing their business, right. And, and building the business logic that powers their company. So for them, we have actually re recently introduced, fully managed. Linky where we can take on, even though Linky has to run on your cluster, right? The, the, the, the sidecar proxies has to be alongside your application. We can actually take on the operational burden of, of upgrades and trust, anchor rotation, and installation. And you can effectively treat it as a utility, right. And, and, and have a, a hosted, like, experience, even though the, the actual bits, at least most of them, not all of them, most of 'em have to live on your cluster. >>I love the focus of most CNCF projects, you know, it's, it's peanut butter or jelly, not peanut butter. Yeah. Trying to be become jelly. Right. What's the, what's the, what's the peanut butter to link D's jelly. Like where does link D stop and some of the things that customers should really consider yeah. When looking at service mesh. >>Yeah. No, that's a great way of looking at it. And I, I actually think that that philosophy comes from Kubernetes. I think Kubernetes itself, one of the reasons it was so successful is because it had some clearly delineated, it said, this is what we're gonna do. Right. And this is what we're not gonna do. So we're gonna do layer three, four networking. Right. But we're gonna stop there. We're not gonna do anything with layer seven. And that allowed the service mesh. So I guess if I were to go down the, the bread, the bread of the sandwich has Kubernetes, and then Linky is the, is the peanut butter, I guess, and then the jelly, you know, so I think the jelly is every other aspect of, of building a platform. Right. So if you are the, the audience for Linky, most of the time, it's a platform owners, right. They're building a platform, an internal platform for their developers to write code. And so, as part of that, of course, you've got Kubernetes, you've got Linky, but you've also got a C I CD system. You've also got a, you know, a code repository, if it's GitLab or, or GitHub or wherever you've got, you know, other kind of tools that are enforcing various other constraints. All of that is the jelly, you know, in the, this is, analogy's getting complicated now. And like the, the platform sandwich that, you know, that you're serving. >>So talk to us about trans and service mesh from the, from the, as we think of the macro. >>Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, it's been an interesting space because we were talking a little bit about, you know, about this before the show, but the, there was so much buzz, you know, and then what we, what we saw was basically it took two years for that buzz to become actual adoption, you know, and now a lot of the buzz is off on other exciting things. And the people who remain in the Linky space are, are very focused on, oh, I actually have a, a real problem that I need to solve and I need to solve it now. So that's been great. So in terms of broader trends, you know, I think one thing we've seen for sure is the service mesh space is kind of notorious for complexity, you know, and a lot of what we've been doing on the Linky side has been trying to, to reverse that, that, that idea, you know, because it doesn't actually have to be complex. There's interesting stuff you can do, especially when you get into the way we handle the sidecar model. It's actually really, it's a wonderful model operationally. It's really, it feels weird at first. And then you're like, oh, actually this makes my operations a lot easier. So a lot of the trends that I see at least for Linky is doubling down on the sidecar model, trying to make side cards as small and as thin as possible and try and make them, you know, kind of transparent to the rest of the application. So >>Well, William Morgan, one of the coolest Twitter handles I've seen at WM on Twitter, that's actually a really cool Twitter handle. Thank you, CEO of buoyant. Thank you for joining the cube again. Cube alum from Valencia Spain. I'm Keith towns, along with en Rico, and you're watching the cube, the leader in high tech coverage.

(intro music playing) >> Hello everyone, and welcome to the power of n where HPE Aruba and Pensando are changing the game, the way customers scale with the cloud, and what's next in the evolution in switching. Hey everyone, I'm John furrier with the cube, and I'm here with Shane Corbin, director of technical product management at Pensando, and William show vice president of product management, Aruba HPE. Gentlemen, thank you for coming on and doing a deep dive and, and going into the, the big news. So the first question I want to ask you guys is um, what do you guys see from a market customer perspective that kicked this project off? um, amazing um, results um, over the past year or so? Where did it all come from? >> No, it's a great question, John. So when we were doing our homework, there were actually three very clear customer challenges. First, security threats were largely spawn with on, within the perimeter. In fact, Forrester highlighted 80% of threats originate within the internal network. Secondly, workloads are largely distributed creating a ton of east-west traffic. And then lastly, network services such as firewalls, load balancers, VPN aggregators are expensive, they're centralized, and they ultimately result in service chaining complexity. >> John: So, so, >> John: Go ahead, Shane. >> Yeah. Additionally, when we spoke to our customers after launching initially the distributed services platform, these compliance challenges clearly became apparent to us and while they saw the architecture value of adopting what the largest public cloud providers have done by putting a smart NIC in each compute node to provide these stateful services. Enterprise customers were still, were struggling with the need to upgrade fleets and brown field servers and the associated per node cost of adding a smart NIC to every compute node. Typically the traffic volumes for on a per node basis within an enterprise data center are significantly lower than cloud. Thus, we saw an opportunity here to, in conjunction with Aruba, develop a new category of switching product um, to share the processing capabilities of our unique intellectual property around our DPU across a rack of servers that net net delivers the same set of services through a new category of platform, enabling a distributed services architecture, and ultimately addressing the compliance and TCO generating huge TCO and ROI for customers. >> You know, one of the things that we've been reporting on with you guys, as well as the cloud scale, this is the volume of data and just the performance and scale. I think the timing of the, of this partnership and the product development is right on point. And you've got the edge right around the corner, more, more distributed nature of cloud operations, huge, huge change in the marketplace. So great timing on the origination story there. Great stuff. Tell me more about the platform itself, the details, what's under the hood, the hardware OS, what are the specs? >> Yeah, so we started with a very familiar premise. Rubik customers are already leveraging CX with an edge to cloud common operating model, in deploying leaf and spine networks. Plus we're excited to introduce the industry's first distributed services switch, where the first configuration has 48-25 gig ports with a hundred gig couplings running Aruba CX cloud native operating system, Pensando Asic's software inside, enabling layer four through six, seven stateful services. Shane, do you want to elaborate on. >> Yeah, let me elaborate on that a little bit further, um, you know, as we spoke existing platforms and how customers were seeking to address these challenges were, are inherently limited by the ASIC dye size, and that does limit their scale and performance and ability in traditional switching platforms to deliver truly stateful functions in, in, in a switching platform, this was, you know, architecturally from the ground up, when we developed our DPU, first and second generation, we delivered it, or we, we built it with stateful services in mind from the get-go, we leveraged the clean state design with our P four program with DPU. We evolved to our seven nanometers based pro DPU right now, which is essentially enabling software and Silicon. And this has generated a new level of performance scale, flexibility and capability in terms of services. This serves as the foundation for our 200 gig card, were we taking the largest cloud providers into production for. And the DPU itself is, is designed inherently to process stage, track stateful connections, and stateful flow is at very, very large scale without impacting performance. And in fact, the two of these DPU components server disk, services foundation of the CX 10 K, and this is how we enable stateful functions in a switching platform functions like stateful network fire-walling, stateful segmentation, enhanced programmable telemetry, which we believe will bring a whole lot of value to our customers. And this is a platform that's inherently programmable from the ground up. We can, we can build and leverage this platform to build new use cases around encryption, enabling stateful load balancing, stateful NAT to name a few, but, but the key message here is, this is, this is a platform with the next generation of architecture's in mind, is programmed, but at all, there's the stack, and that's what makes it fundamentally different than anything else. >> I want to just double click on that if you don't mind, before we get to the competitive question, because I think you brought up the state thing. I think this is worth calling out, if you guys don't mind commenting more on this states issue, because this is big. Cloud native developers right now, want speed, they're shifting left at the CICD pipeline with programmability. So going down and having the programmability, and having state is a really big deal. Can you guys just expand on that a little bit more and why it's important and, and how hard it really is to pull off? >> I, I can start, I guess, um, it's very hard to pull off because of the sheer amount of connections you need to track when you're developing something like a stateful firewall or a stateful load balancer, a key component of that is managing the connections at very, very large scale and understanding what's happening with those connections at scale, without impacting application performance. And this is fundamentally different at traditional switching platform, regardless of how it's deployed today in Asics, don't typically process and manage state like this. Um, memory resources within the chip aren't sufficient, um, the policy scale that you can um, implement on a platform aren't sufficient to address and fundamentally enable deployable firewalling, or load balancing, or other stateful services. >> That's exactly right. And so the other kind of key point here is that, if you think about the sophistication of different security threats, it does really require you to be able to look at the entire packet, and, and more so be able to look at the entire flow and be able to log that history, so that you can get much better heuristics around different anomalies, security threats that are emerging today. >> That's a great, great point. Thanks for, for, um, bringing that extra, extra point out. I would just add to this, we're reporting this all the time on Silicon angle in the cube is that, you know, the, you know, the, the automation wave that's coming with around data, you know, it's a center of data, not data centers we heard earlier on with the, in, in, in the presentation. Data drives automation, having that enabled with the state is a real big deal. So, I think that's really worth calling out. Now, I've got to ask the competition question, how is this different? I mean, this is an evolution. I would say, it's a revolution. You guys are being being humble, um, but how is this different from what customers can deploy today? >> Architecturally, if you take a look at it. We've, we've spoken about the technology and fundamentally in the platform what's unique, in the architecture, but, foundationally when customers deploy stateful services they're typically deployed leveraging traditional big box appliances for east-west our workload based agents, which seek to implement stateful security for each east-west. Architecturally what we're enabling is stateful services like firewalling, segmentation, can scale with the fabric and are delivered at the optimal point for east west which is through leaf for access layer of the network. And we do this for any type of workload. Be it deployed on a virtualized compute node, be a deployed on a containerized worker node, be deployed on bare metal, agnostic up typology, it can be in the access layer of a three tier design and a data center. It can be in the leaf layer of a VX VPN based fabric, but the goal is an all centrally managed to a single point of orchestration and control of which William will talk about shortly. The goal of this is to drive down the TCO of your data center as a whole, by allowing you to retire legacy appliances that are deployed in an east-west roll, and not utilize host based agents, and thus save a whole lot of money and we've modeled on the order of 60 to 70% in terms of savings in terms of the traditional data center pod design of a thousand compute nodes which we'll be publishing. And as, as we go forward additional services, as we mentioned, like encryption, this platform has the capability to terminate up to 800 gigs of our line rates encryption, IP sec, VPN per platform, stateful Nat load balancing, and this is all functionality we'll be adding to this existing platform because it's programmable as we've mentioned from the ground up. >> What are some of the use cases lead? And what's the top use cases, what's the low hanging fruit and where does this go? You've got service providers, enterprises. What are the types of customers you guys see implementing? >> Yeah, that's, what's really exciting about the CX 10,000. We actually see customer interest from all types of different markets, whether it be higher education, service providers to financial services, basically all enterprises verticals with private cloud or edge data centers. For example, it could be a hospital, a big box retailer, or a colon such as Iniquinate So it's really the CX 10,000 that creates a new switching category, enabling stateful services in that leaf node right at the workload, unifying network and security automation policy management. Second, the CX 10,000 greatly improves security posture and eliminates the need for hair-pinning east-west traffic all the way back to the centralized deployments. Lastly, As Shane highlighted, there's a 70% TCO savings by eliminating that appliance sprawl and ultimately collapsing the network security operations. >> I love the category creation um, vibe here. Love it. And also the technical and the cloud alignment's great. But how do the customers manage all this? Okay, I got a new category. I just put the box in, throw away some other ones? I mean, how does this all get done? And how does the customers manage all this? >> Yeah, so we're, we're looking to build on top of the river fabric composer. It's another familiar site for our customers, and what's already provides for compute storage and network automation, with a broad ecosystem integrations, such as VMware vSphere Vcenter as with Nutanix prism and so aligned with the CX 10,000 FGA, now you have a fabric composer, unified security and policy orchestration, and management with the ability to find firewall policies efficiently and provide that telemetry to collect your such a Splunk. >> John: So the customer environments right now involve a lot of multi-vendor and new frameworks, obviously, cloud native. How does this fit into the customer's existing environment with the ecosystem? How do they get, get going here? >> Yeah, great question. Um, Our customers can get going as we, we've built a flexible platform that can be deployed in either Greenfield or brownfield. Obviously it's a best of breed architecture for distributed services we're building in conjunction with Aruba. But if customers want to gradually integrate this into their existing environments and they're using other vendors, spines or cores, this can be inserted seamlessly as, as a lead for an access, access tier switch to deliver the exact same set of services within that architecture. So it plugs seamlessly in because it supports all the standard control plan protocols, a VX 90 VPN, and a traditional attitude, three tier designs easily. Now, for any enterprise solution deployment, it's critical that you build a holistic ecosystem around it. It's clear that, this will get customer deployments and the ecosystem being diverse and rich is very, very important. And as part of our integrations with the controller, we're building a broad suite of integrations across threat detection, application dependency mapping, Siemens sooam, dev ops infrastructure as code tools. (inaudible) And it's clear if you look at these categories of integrations, you know, XDR or threat detection requires full telemetric from within the data center, it's been hard to accomplish to date because you typically need agents on, on your compute nodes to give you the visibility into what's going on or firewalls for east west fuels. Now, our platform can natively provide full visibility into all flows east- west in the data center. And this can become the source of telemetry truth that these MLX CR engines require to work. The other aspects of ecosystem around application dependency mapping, this single core challenge with deploying segmentation east west is understanding the rules to put in & Right, first is how do you insert the service, um, service device in such a way that it won't add more complexity? We don't add any complexity because we're in line natively. How you would understand it, would allow you to build the rules that are necessary to do segmentation. We integrate with tools like Guardi core, we provide our flogs as source of data, and they can provide room recommendations and policy recommendations for customers. Around, we're building integrations around Siemen soam with, with tools like Splunk and elastic, elastic search that will allow NetOps and SecOps teams to visualize trend and manage the services delivered by the CX 10 K. And the other aspect of ecosystem, from a security standpoint is clearly how do I get policy for these traditional appliances and enforce them on this next generation architecture that you've built, that can enable stateful services. So we're building integrations with tools like turf and an algo sec third-party sources of policy that we can ingest and enforce on the infrastructure, allowing you to gradually, um, migrate to this new architecture over time. >> John: It's really a cloud native switch. I mean, you solve people's problems, pin- points, but yet positioned for growth. I mean, it sounds that's my takeaway, but I got to ask you guys both, what's the takeaway for the customers because it's not that simple for them, I mean it's, we a have complicated environment. (all giggling) >> Yeah, I think it's, I think it's really simple, um, you know, every 10 years or so, we see major evolutions in the data center and the switching environment, but we do believe we've created a new category with the distributed services, distributed services switch, delivering cloud scale distributed services, where the local, where the workloads reside greatly, simplifying network, security provisioning, and operations with the urban fabric composer while improving security posture and the TCO. But that's not all the folks, it's a journey, right Shane? >> Yeah, it's absolutely a journey. And this is the first step in a long journey with a great partner like Aruba. There's other platforms, hundred or 400 gig hardware platforms where we're looking at and then this additional services that we can enable over time, allowing customers to drive even more TCO value out of the platform of the architecture services like encryption for securing the cloud on-ramp, services like stateful load balancing to deploy east-west in the data center and, you know, holistically that's, that's the goal, deliver value for customers. And we believe we have an architecture and a platform, and this is a first step in a long journey. >> It's a great way of, I just ask one final, final question for both of you as product leaders, you got to be excited having a category creation product here in this market, this big wave, but what's your thoughts? >> Yeah, exactly right, it doesn't happen that often, and so we're, we're all in it's, it's exciting to be able to work with a great team like Pensando and Shane here. Um, so we're really, really excited about this launch. >> Yeah, it's awesome. The team is great. It's a great partnership between Pensando and Aruba. You know, we, we look forward to delivering value for our joint customers. >> John: Thank you both for sharing under the hood and more details on the product. Thanks for coming on. >> [William And Shane] Thank you. >> Okay. The next evolution in switching, I'm John Furrier here with the power of nHPE Aruba and Pensando changing the game, the way customers scale up in the cloud and networking. Thanks for watching. (music playing)

>>Hello and welcome to the power of and where H P E Aruba and Pensando are changing the game the way customers scale at the cloud and what's next in the evolution in switching everyone. I'm john ferrier with the Cuban. I'm here with Shane Corbyn, Director of Technical Product management. Pensando Williams show vice president Product management, Aruba HP Gentlemen, thank you for coming on and doing a deep dive and and going into the big news. So the first question I want to ask you guys is um, what do you guys see from a market customer perspective that kicked this project off? Amazing results over the past year or so. Where did it all come from? >>It's a great question, John So when we were doing our homework, there were actually three very clear customer challenges. First, security threats were largely spawned with from within the perimeter. In fact, four star highlights that 80% of threats originate within the internal network. Secondly, workloads are largely distributed, creating a ton of east west traffic and then lastly, network services such as firewalls load balancers. VPN aggregators are expensive. They're centralized and then ultimately result in service changing complexity. So everyone, >>so go ahead. Change. >>Yeah. Additionally, when we spoke to our customers after launching initially the distributed services platform, these compliance challenges clearly became apparent to us and while they saw the architectural value of adopting what the largest public cloud providers have done by putting a smart making each compute note to provide these state full services. Enterprise customers were still were struggling with the need to upgrade fleets and Brownfield servers and the associated per node cost of adding a spark nick to every compute node. Typically the traffic volumes for on a personal basis within an enterprise data center are significantly lower than cloud. Thus we saw an opportunity here to in conjunction with Aruba developed a new category of switching product um, to share the crossing capabilities of our unique intellectual property around our DPU across a rack of servers that Net Net delivers the same set of services through a new category of platform, enabling a distributed services architecture and ultimately addressing the compliance and uh, TCO generating huge TCO and ri for customers. >>You know, one of the things that we've been reporting on with you guys as well as the cloud scale, this is the volume of data and just the performance and scale I think the timing of the, of this partnership and the product development is right on point. You got the edge right around the corner more, more distributed nature of cloud operations, huge, huge change in the marketplace. So great timing on the origination story there. Great stuff. Tell me more about the platform itself. The details what's under the hood, the hardware. Os, what are the specs? >>Yeah, so we started with a very familiar premise, Ruba customers are already leveraging C X with an edge to cloud, common operating model and deploying Leaf and spy networks. Plus we're excited to introduce the industry's first distributed services switch where the first configuration has 48 25 gig ports with 100 gig uplinks running Aruba C X cloud native operating system. Pensando A six and software inside enabling layer four through seven staple services you want to elaborate on. >>Let me elaborate on that a little further. Um, you know, as we spoke, existing platforms and how customers were seeking to address these challenges were inherently limited by the diocese and that thus limited their scale and performance and ability in traditional switching platforms to deliver truly stable functions in in a switching platform. This was, you know, architecturally from the ground up. When we developed our DPU 1st and 2nd generation, we delivered it or we we we built it with staples services in in mind from the Gecko. We we leverage to clean state designed with RP four program with GPU, we evolved to our seven nanometer based DPU right now, which is essentially enabling software and silicon and this has generated a new level of performance scale flexibility and capability in terms of services this serves as the foundation for or 200 gig card where we're taking the largest cloud providers into production for. And the DPU itself is designed inherently to process state track state connections and state will flow is a very, very large scale without impacting performance. And in fact, the two of these deep you component service, their services foundation of the C X 10-K And this is how we enable states of functions in a switching platform. Functions like stable network network fire walling, stable segmentation, enhance programmable telemetry. Which we believe will bring a whole lot of value to our customers. And this is a, a platform that's inherently programmable from the ground up. We can we can build and and leverages platform to build new use cases around encryption, enabling state for load balancing, stable nash to name a few. But the key message here is this is this is a platform with the next generation of architecture is in mind is programmed but at all levels of the stack and that's what makes it fundamentally different than anything else. >>I want to just double click on that if you don't mind before we get to the competitive question because I think you brought up the state thing, I think this is worth calling out if you guys don't mind commenting more on this state issue because this is big cloud. Native developers right now want speed, they're shifting left at the Ci cd pipeline with program ability. So going down and having the program ability and having state is a really big deal. Can you guys just expand on that a little bit more and why it's important and how hard it really is to pull off. >>I I can start I guess. Well um it's very hard to pull off because of the sheer amount of connections you need to track when you're developing something like a state, full firewall or state from load balancer. A key component of that is managing the connections at very, very large scale and understanding what's happening with those connections at scale without impacting application performance. And this is fundamentally different. A traditional switching platform regardless of how it's deployed today in a six don't typically process and manage state like this. Memory resources within the shape aren't sufficient. Um the policy scale that you can implement on a platform aren't sufficient to address and fundamentally enable deployable fire walling or load balancing or other state services. >>That's exactly right. So the other kind of key point here is that if you think about the sophistication of different security threats, it does really require you to be able to look at the entire packet and more so be able to look at the entire flow and be able to log that history so that you can get much better heuristics around different anomalies. Security threats that are emerging today. >>That's a great great point. Thanks for bringing that extra extra point out, I would just add to this, we're reporting this all the time when silicon angle in the cube is that you know, the you know, the the automation wave that's coming with around data, you know, it's the center of data now, not date as soon as we heard earlier on with the presentation data drives automation having that enabled with state is a real big deal. So I think that's really worth calling out now. I got to ask the competition question, how is this different? I mean this is an evolution, I would say it's a revolution you guys are being humble um but how is this different from what customers can deploy today >>architecturally, if you take a look at it? So we've, we've spoken about the technology and fundamentally in the platform, what's unique in the architecture but foundational e when customers deploy stable services, they're typically deployed leveraging traditional big box appliances for east west or workload based agents which seek to implement stable security for each East west architectural, what we're enabling is staples services like fire walling, segmentation can scale with the fabric and are delivered at the optimal point for east west which is through the Leaf for access their of the network and we do this for any type of workload. Being deployed on a virtualized compute node being deployed on a containerized, our worker node being deployed on bare metal agnostic of topology. It can be in the access layer of a three tier design and a data center. It can be in the leaf layer of the excellent VPN based fabric. But the goal is an all centrally managed to a single point of orchestration control which William we'll talk about shortly. The goal of this is to to drive down the TCO of your data center as a whole by allowing you to retire legacy appliances that are deployed in in east west role, not utilized host based agents and thus save a whole lot of money. And we've modeled on the order of 60 to 70% in terms of savings in terms of the traditional data center pod design of 1000 compute nodes which will be publishing and as as we go forward, additional services as we mentioned like encryption, this platform has the capability to terminate up to 800 gigs of line, right encryption, I P sec VPN per platform state will not load balancing and this is all functionality will be adding to this existing platform because it's programmable as we mentioned from the ground up. >>What are some of the use cases lead and one of the top use case. What's the low hanging fruit? And where does this go? Service providers enterprise, what are the types of customers you guys see implementing? >>Yeah, that's what's really exciting about the C X 10,000 we actually see customer interest from all types of different markets, whether it be higher education service providers to financial services, basically all enterprises verticals with private cloud or edge data centers for example, could be a hospital, a big box retailer or Coehlo. Such as an equity. It's so it's really the 6 10,000 that creates a new switching category enabling staple services in that leaf node, right at the workload, unifying network and security automation policy management. Second, the C X 10,000 greatly improved security posture and eliminates the need for hair pinning east west traffic all the way back to the centralized plants. Lastly, a Shane highlighted there's a 70% Tco savings by eliminating that appliance brawl and ultimately collapsing the network security operations. >>I love the category creation vibe here. Love it. And obviously the technical and the cloud line is great. But how do the customers manage all this? Okay. You got a new category. I just put the box in, throw away some other one. I mean how does this all get down? How does the customers manage all this? >>Yeah. So we're looking to build on top of the ribbon fabric composer. It's another familiar sight for our customers which already provides for compute storage and network automation with a broad ecosystem integrations such as being where the sphere be center as with Nutanix prison And so aligned with the c. x. 10,000 at G. A. now the aruba fabric composer unifies security and policy orchestration and management with the ability to find firewall policies efficiently and provide that telemetry to collectors such a slump. >>So the customer environments right now involve a lot of multi vendor and new frameworks cloud native. How does this fit into the customer's existing environment? The ecosystem. How do they get that get going here? >>Yeah, great question. Um our customers can get going is we we built a flexible platform that can be deployed in either Greenfield or brownfield. Obviously it's a best of breed architecture for distributed services were building in conjunction with the ruble but if customers want to gradually integrate this into their existing environments and they're using other vendors, spines or course this can be inserted seamlessly as a leaf or an access access to your switch to deliver the exact same set of services within that architecture. So it plugs seamlessly in because it supports all the standard control playing protocols, VX, Lenny, VPN and traditional attitude three tier designs easily. Now for any enterprise solution deployment, it's critical that you build a holistic ecosystem around it. It's clear that this will get customer deployments and the ecosystem being diverse and rich is very, very important and as part of our integrations with the controller, we're building a broad suite of integrations across threat detection application dependency mapping, Semen sore develops infrastructure as code tools like ants, Poland to answer the entire form. Um, it's clear if you look at these categories of integrations, you know XDR or threat detection requires full telemetry from within the data center. It's been hard to accomplish to date because you typically need agents on, on your compute nodes to give you the visibility into what's going on or firewalls for east west flaws. Now our platform can natively provide full visibility in dolphins, East west in the data center and this can become the source of telemetry truth that these Ml XT or engines required to work. The other aspects of ecosystem are around application dependency mapping the single core challenge with deploying segmentation. East West is understanding the rules to put in place right first, is how do you insert the service uh service device in such a way that it won't add more complexity. We don't add any complexity because we're in line natively. How do we understand that allow you to build the rules are necessary to do segmentation. We integrate with tools like guard corps, we provide our flow logs a source of data and they can provide rural recommendations and policy recommendations for customers around. We're building integrations around steve and soar with tools like Splunk and elastic elastic search that will allow net hops and sec ops teams to visualize, train and manage the services delivered by the C X 10-K. And the other aspect of ecosystem from a security standpoint is clearly how do I get policy from these traditional appliances and enforce them on this next generation architecture that you've built that can enable state health services. So we're building integrations with tools like toughen analgesic third party sources of policy that we can ingest and enforcing the infrastructure allowing you to gradually migrate to this new architecture over time >>it's really a cloud native switch, you solve people's problems pain points but yet positioned for growth. I mean it sounds that's my takeaway. But I gotta ask you guys both what's the takeaway for the customers because it's not that simple for that. We have a complicated >>Environment. I think, I think it's really simple every 10 years or so. We see major evolutions in the data center in the switching environment. We do believe we've created a new category with the distributed services, distributed services, switch, delivering cloud scale distribute services where the local where the workloads were side greatly simplifying network security provisions and operations with the Yoruba fabric composer while improving security posture and the TCO. But that's not all folks. It's a journey. Right. >>Yeah, it's absolutely a journey. And this is the first step in in a long journey with a great partner like Aruba, there's other platforms, 100 or four gig hardware platforms we're looking at and then there's additional services that we can enable over time allowing customers to drive even more Tco value out of the platform and the architectural services like encryption for securing the cloud on ramp services like state for load balancing to deploy east west in the data center and you know, holistically that's that's the goal, deliver value for customers and we believe we have an architecture and a platform and this is the first step in a long journey. It's >>a great way. I just ask one final final question for both of you. As product leaders, you've got to be excited having a category creation product here in this market, this big wave. What's what's your thoughts? >>Yeah, exactly. Right. It doesn't happen that often. And so we're all in, it's it's exciting to be able to work with a great team like Sandu and chain here. And so we're really excited about this launch. >>Yeah, it's awesome. The team is great. It's a great partnership between and santo and Aruba and you know, we we look forward to delivering value for john customers. >>Thank you both for sharing under the hood and more details on the product. Thanks for coming on. >>Thank you. Okay, >>the next evolution of switching, I'm john furrier here with the power of An HP, Aruba and Pensando, changing the game the way customers scale up in the cloud and networking. Thanks for watching. Mhm.

>>Good day. And thanks for joining us as we continue our series here on the Coupa, the AWS startup showcase featuring today, big ID and what this is, will Murphy was the vice president of business development and alliances at big idea. Well, good day to you. How are you going today? Thanks John. I'm doing well. I'm glad to be here. That's great. And acute belong to, I might add, so it's nice to have you back. Um, let's first off, let's share the big ID story. Uh, you've been around for just a handful of years accolades coming from every which direction. So obviously, uh, what you're doing, you're doing very well, but for our viewers who might not be too familiar with big ID, just give us a 30,000 foot level of your core competence. Yeah, absolutely. So actually we just had our five-year anniversary for big ID, uh, which we're quite excited about. >>Um, and that five-year comes with some pretty big red marks. We've raised over $200 million for a unicorn now. Um, but where that comes to and how that came about was that, um, we're dealing with, um, longstanding problems with modern data landscape security governance, privacy initiatives, um, and starting in 2016 with the, uh, authorship of GDPR, the European privacy law organizations, how to treat data differently than they did before they couldn't afford to just sit on all this data that was collected for a couple of reasons, right? Uh, one of them being that it's expensive. So you're constantly storing data, whether that's on-prem or in the cloud is we're going to talk about there's expense that you have to pay to secure the data and keep it from being leaked. You have to pay for access control. It's paid for a lot of different things and you're not getting any value out of that. >>And then there's the idea of like the customer trust piece, which is like, if anything happens to that data, um, your reputational, uh, your reputation as a company and the trust you have between your customers and your organization is broken. So big ID. What we did is we decided that there was a foundation that needed to be built. The foundation was data discovery. If you even an organization knows where its data is, whose data it is, where it is, um, and what it is, and also who has access to it, they can start to make actionable decisions based on the data and based on this new data intelligence. So we're trying to help organizations keep up with modern data initiatives and we're empowering organizations to handle their data sensitive, personal regulated. And what's actually quite interesting is we allow organizations to define what's sensitive to them because like people, organizations are all different. >>And so what's sensitive to one organization might not be to another, it goes beyond the wall. And so we're giving organizations that new power and flexibility, and this is what I still find striking is that obviously with this exponential growth of data and machine learning, just bringing billions of inputs, it seems like right. All of a sudden you have this fast reservoir data, is that the companies in large part, um, don't know a lot about the data that they're harvest state and where it is. And so it's not actionable, it's kind of dark data, right. Just out there reciting. >>Um, and so as I understand it, this, this is your focus basically is tell people, Hey, here's your landscape. Uh, here's how you can better put it to action, why it's valuable and we're going to help them protect it. Um, and they're not aware of these things, which I still find a little striking in this day and age, >>And it goes even further. So, you know, when you start to, when you start to reveal the truth and what's going on with data, there's a couple things that some organizations do. Uh, and I think human instincts, some organizations want to bury their head in the sand. I'm like, everything's fine. Uh, which is, as we know, and we've seen the news frequently, not a sustainable approach. Uh, there's the, there's the, like, let's be a, we're overwhelmed. We don't, we don't even know. We don't even know where to start. Then there's the natural reaction, which is okay. We have to centralize and control everything which defeats the purpose of having, um, shared drives and collaboration and, um, geographically disparate workforces, which we've seen particularly over the last year, how important that resiliency within organizations is to be able to work in different areas. And so, um, it really restricts the value that, um, organizations can get from their data, which is important. And it's important in a ton of ways. Um, and for customers that have allowed their, their data to be, to be stored and harvested by these organizations, they're not getting value out of it either. It's just risk. And we've got to move data from the liability side of the balance sheet, um, to the assets out of the balance sheet. And that comes first and foremost with knowledge. >>So everybody's vote cloud, right? Everybody was on prem and also we build a bigger house and build a bigger house, better security, right in front of us, got it, got to grow. And that's where I assume AWS has come in with you. And, and this was a two year partnership that you've been engaged with in AWS. So maybe shine a little light on that, about the partnership that you've created with AWS, and then how you then in turn transition that, to leverage that for the betterment of your >>Customer base. Yeah. So AWS has been a great partner. Um, they are very forward-looking for an organization, as large as they are very forward looking that they can't do everything that their customers need. And it's better for the ecosystem as a whole to enable small companies like us. And we were very small when we started our relationship with them, uh, to, to join their partner organization. So we're an advanced partner. Now we're part of ISV accelerate. So it's a slightly more lead partner organization. Um, and we're there because our customers are there and AWS like us, but we both have a customer obsessed culture. Um, but organizations are embracing the cloud and there's fear of the cloud. There's there really shouldn't be in the, in the way that we thought of it, maybe five or 10 years ago. And that, um, companies like AWS are spending a lot more money on security than most organizations can. >>So like they have huge security teams, they're building massive infrastructure. And then on top of that, companies themselves can do, can use, uh, products like big ID and other products to make themselves more secure, um, from outside threats and from, from inside threats as well. So, um, we are trying to with them approach modern data challenge as well. So even within AWS, if you put all the information in, like, let's say S3 buckets, that doesn't really tell you anything. It's like, you know, I, I make this analogy. Sometimes I live in Manhattan. If I were to collect all the keys of everybody that lived in a 10 block radius around me and put it into a dumpster, uh, and keep doing that, I would theoretically know where all the keys were there in the dumpster. Now, if somebody asked me, I'd like my keys back, uh, I'd have a really hard time giving them that because I've got to sort through, you know, 10,000 people's keys. >>And I don't really know a lot about it, but those key sale a lot, you know, it says, are you in an old building, are you in a new building? You have a bike, do you have a car? Do you have a gym locker? There's all sorts of information. And I think this analogy holds up for data because of the way you store your data is important, but, um, you can gain a lot of theoretically innocuous, but valuable information from the data that's there while not compromising the sensitive data. And as an AWS has been a fabulous partner in this, they've helped us build a AWS security, have integration out of the box. Um, we now work with over 12 different AWS native, uh, applications from anything like S3 Redshift and Sienna, uh, Kinesis, as well as, um, apps built on AWS like snowflake and Databricks that we, that we connect to. >>And AWS, the technical team of department teams have been an enormous part of our success there. We're very proud of joining the marketplace to be where our customers want to buy enterprise software more and more. Um, and that's another area that we're collaborating, uh, in, in, in joint accounts now to bring more value in simplicity to our joint customers. What's your process in terms of your customer and, uh, evaluating their needs because you just talked about earlier, you had different approaches to security. Some people put their head in the sand, right? Some people admit that there's a problem. Some people fully engaged. So I assume there's also different levels of sophistication in terms of whatever you have in place and then what their needs are. So if you would shine a little light on that, you know, where they are in terms of their data landscape and AWS and its tools, but you just touched them on multiple tools you have in your service. >>Now, all that comes together to develop what would be, I guess, a unique program for a company's specific needs. It is. We started talking to the largest enterprise accounts when we were founded and we still have a real proclivity and expertise in that area. So the issues with the large enterprise accounts and the uniqueness there is scale. They have a tremendous amount of data, HR data, financial data, customer data, you name it, right? Like, we'll go. We can, we can go dry mouth talking about how many you're saying data. So many times with, with these large customers, um, freight Ws scale, wasn't an issue. They can store it, they can analyze it. They can do tons. It where we were helping is that we could make that safer. So if you want to perform data analytics, you want to ensure that sensitive data is not being, or that you want to make sure you're not violating local, not national or industry specific regulations. >>Financial services is a great example. There's dozens of regulations at the federal level in the United States and each state has their own regulations. This becomes increasingly complex. So AWS handles this by, by allowing an amazing amount of customization for their customers. They have data centers in the right places. They have experts on, on, uh, vertical, specific issues. Big ID handles this similarly in some ways, but we handle it through ostensive ability. So one of our big things is we have to be able to connect to every everywhere where our customers have data. So we want to build a foundation of like, let's say first let's understand the goals is the goal compliance with the law, which it should be for everybody that should just be like, we need to, we need to comply with the law. Like that's, that's easy. Yeah. Then as the next piece, like, are we dealing with something legacy? >>Was there a breach? Do we need to understand what happened? Are we trying to be forward-looking and understanding? We want to make sure we can lock down our most sensitive data, tier our storage tier, our security tier are our analytics efforts, which also is cost-effective. So you don't have to do, uh, everything everywhere, um, or is the goal a little bit like we needed to get a return on investment faster, and we can't do that without de-risking some of that. So we've taken those lessons from the enterprise where it's exceedingly difficult, uh, to work because of the strict requirements, because the customers expect more. And I think like AWS, we're bringing a down market. Uh, we have some, a new product coming out. Uh, it's exclusive for, uh, AWS now called small ID, which is a cloud native, a smaller version, lighter weight version of our product for customers in the more commercial space in the SMB space where they can start to build a foundation of understanding their data or, um, protection for security for, for, for privacy. >>And, and before I let you go here, what I'd like to hear about is practical application. You know, somebody that, that you've, you know, that you were able to help and assist you evaluated. Cause you've talked about the format here. You've talked about your process and talk about some future, I guess, challenges, opportunities, but, but just to give our viewers an idea of maybe the kind of success you've already had to, uh, give them a perspective on that, this share a couple stories. If you wouldn't mind with some work that you guys did and rolled up your sleeves and, and, uh, created that additional value >>For your customers. Yeah, absolutely. So I'll give a couple examples. I'm going to, I'm going to keep everyone anonymized, uh, as a privacy based company, in many ways, what we, we try to respect colors. Um, but let's talk about different types of sensitive data. So we have customers that, um, intellectual property is their biggest concern. So they, they do care about compliance. They want to comply with all local and national laws where they, where they, their company resides all their offices are, but they were very concerned about sensitive data sprawl around intellectual property. They have a lot of patents. They have a lot of sensitive data that way. So one of the things we did is we were able to provide custom tags and classifications for their sensitive data based on intellectual property. And they could see across their cloud environment, across their on-premise environment across shared drives, et cetera. >>We're sensitive data had sprawl where it had moved, who's having access to it. And they were able to start realigning their storage strategy and their content management strategy, data governance strategy, based on that, and start to, uh, move sensitive data back to certain locations, lock that down on a higher level could create more access control there, um, but also proliferate and, uh, share data that more teams needed access to. Um, and so that's an example of a use case that I don't think we imagined necessarily in 2016 when we were focused on privacy, but we've seen that the value can come from it. Um, so yeah, no, I mean, the other piece is, so we've worked with some of the largest AWS customers in the world. Their concern is how do we even start to scan the Tedder, terabytes and petabytes of data in any reasonable fashion? >>Uh, without it being out of date, if we create this data map, if we prayed this data inventory, uh, it's going to be out of date day one, as soon as we say, it's complete, we've already added more. That's where our scalability fit Sam. We were able to do a full scan of their entire AWS environment and, uh, months, and then keep up with the new data that was going into their AWS environment. This is a, this is huge. This was groundbreaking for them. So our hyper scan capability, uh, that we've wrote, brought out that we rolled out to AWS first, um, was a game changer for them to understand what data they had and where it is who's it is et cetera at a way that they never thought they could keep up with. You know, I I'm, I brought back to the beginning of code when the British government was keeping track of all the COVID cases on spreadsheets and spreadsheet broke. >>Um, it was also out of date, as soon as they entered something else. It was already out of date. They couldn't keep up with them. Like there's better ways to do that. Uh, luckily they think they've moved on from, from that, uh, manual system, but automation using the correct human inputs when necessary, then let, let machine learning, let, uh, big data take care of things that it can, uh, don't waste human hours that are precious and expensive unnecessarily and make better decisions based on that data. You know, you raised a great point too, which I hadn't thought of about the fact is you do your snapshot today and you start evaluating all their needs for today. And by the time you're going to get that done, their needs have now exponentially grown. It's like painting the golden gate bridge, right. You get that year and now you've got to pay it again. I said it got bigger, but anyway, they will. Thanks for the time. We certainly appreciate it. Thanks for joining us here on the sort of showcase and just remind me that if you ever asked for my keys, keep them out of that dumpster to be here.

(upbeat music) >> Well, good day and thank you for joining us as we continue our series here on theCUBE of the AWS Startup Showcase featuring today BigID. And with us is Will Murphy, who's the Vice President of the Business Development and Alliances at BigID. Will, good day to you, how are you doing today? >> Thanks John, I'm doing well. I'm glad to be here. >> Yeah, that's great. And theCUBE alum too, I might add so it's nice to have you back. Let's first off, let's share the BigID story. You've been around for just a handful of years. Accolades coming from every which direction so obviously what you're doing, you're doing very well. But for our viewers who might not be too familiar with BigID, just give us a 30,000 foot level of your core competence. >> Yeah absolutely. So actually we just had our five-year anniversary for BigID, which we're quite excited about. And that five year comes with some pretty big red marks. We've raised over $200 million for a unicorn now. But where that comes to and how that came about was that we're dealing with longstanding problems with modern data landscapes, security governance, privacy initiatives. And starting in 2016 with the authorship of GDPR, the European privacy law organizations had to treat data differently than they did before. They couldn't afford to just sit on all this data that was collected. For a couple reasons, right? One of them being that it's expensive. So you're constantly storing data whether that's on-prem or in the cloud as we're going to talk about. There's expense to that. You have to pay to secure the data and keep it from being leaked, You have to pay for access control, you have to pay for a lot of different things. And you're not getting any value out of that. And then there's the idea of the customer trust piece, which is like if anything happens to that data, your reputation as a company and the trust you have between your customers and your organization is broken. So BigID, what we did is we decided that there was a foundation that needed to be built. The foundation was data discovery. If an organization knows where its data is, whose data it is, where it is, and what it is and also who has access to it, they can start to make actionable decisions based on the data and based on this new data intelligence. So, we're trying to help organizations keep up with modern data initiatives. And we're empowering organizations to handle their data, sensitive, personal regulated. What's actually quite interesting is we allow organizations to define what's sensitive to them because like people, organizations are all different. And so what's sensitive to one organization might not be to another. It goes beyond the wall. And so we're giving organizations that new power and flexibility. >> And this is what I still find striking is that obviously with this exponential growth of data you got machine learning, just bringing billions of inputs. It seems like right now. Also you had this vast reservoir of data. Is that the companies in large part don't know a lot about the data that they're harvesting and where it is, and so it's not actionable. It's kind of dark data, right? Just out there residing. And so as I understand it, this is your focus basically is to tell people, hey here's your landscape, here's how you can better put it to action why it's valuable and we're going to help you protect it. And they're not aware of these things which I still find a little striking in this day and age >> And it goes even further. So you know, when you start to reveal the truth and what's going on with data, there's a couple things that some organizations do. And enter the human instincts. Some organizations want to bury their head in the sand like everything's fine. Which is as we know and we've seen the news frequently not a sustainable approach. There's the like let's be we're overwhelmed. Yeah. We don't even know where to start. Then there's the unnatural reaction, which is okay, we have to centralize and control everything. Which defeats the purpose of having shared drives and collaboration in geographically disparate workforces, which we've seen in particularly over the last year, how important that resiliency within organizations is to be able to work in different areas. And so it really restricts the value that organizations can get from their data, which is important. And it's important in a ton of ways. And for customers that have allowed their data to be stored and harvested by these organizations, like they're not getting value out of it neither. It's just risk. And we've got to move data from the liability side of the balance sheet to the assets side of the balance sheet. And that comes first and foremost with knowledge. >> So everybody's going cloud, right? Used to be, you know, everybody's on prem. And all of a sudden we build a bigger house. And so because you build a bigger house, you need better security, right? Your perimeter's got to grow. And that's where I assume AWS has come in with you. And this is a two year partnership that you've been engaged with in AWS. So maybe shine a little light on that. About the partnership that you've created with AWS and then how you then in turn transition that to leverage that for the benefit of your customer base. >> Yeah. So AWS has been a great partner. They are very forward-looking for an organization as large as they are. Very forward looking that they can't do everything that their customers need. And it's better for the ecosystem as a whole to enable small companies like us, and we were very small when we started our relationship with them, to join their partner organization. So we're an advanced partner now. We're part of ISV Accelerate. So it's a slightly more lead partner organization. And we're there because our customers are there. And AWS like us, we both have a customer obsessed culture. But organizations are embracing the cloud. And there's fear of the cloud, but there really shouldn't be in the way that we thought of it maybe five or 10 years ago. And that companies like AWS are spending a lot more money on security than most organizations can. So like they have huge security teams, they're building massive infrastructure. And then on top of that, companies themselves can can use products like big ID and other products to make themselves more secure from outside threats and from inside threats as well. So we are trying to with them approach modern data challenges well. So even within AWS, if you put all the information in like let's say S3 buckets, it doesn't really tell you anything. It's like, you know, I make this analogy sometimes. I live in Manhattan and if I were to collect all the keys of everybody that lived in a 10 block radius around me and put it into a dumpster and keep doing that, I would theoretically know where all the keys were. They're in the dumpster. Now, if somebody asked me, I'd like my keys back, I'd have a really hard time giving them that. Because I've got to sort through, you know, 10,000 people's keys. And I don't really know a lot about it. But those key say a lot, you know? It says like, are you in an old building? Are you in a new building? Do you have a bike? Do you have a car? Do you have a gym locker? There's all sorts of information. And I think that this analogy holds up for data but ifs of the way you store your data is important. But you can gain a lot of theoretically innocuous but valuable information from the data that's there, while not compromising the sensitive data. And as an AWS has been a fabulous partner in this. They've helped us build a AWS security, have integration out of the box. We now work with over 12 different AWS native applications from anything like S3, Redshift, Athena, Kinesis, as well as apps built on AWS, like Snowflake and Databricks that we connect to. And in AWS, the technical teams, department teams have been an enormous part of our success there. We're very proud to have joined the marketplace, to be where our customers want to buy enterprise software more and more. And that's another area that we're collaborating in joint accounts now to bring more value and simplicity to our joint customers. >> So what's your process in terms of your customer and evaluating their needs? 'Cause you just talked about it earlier that you had different approaches to security. Some people put their head in the sand, right? Some people admit that there's a problem. Some people fully are engaged. So I assume there's also a different level of sophistication in terms of what they already have in place and then what their needs are. So if you were to shine a little light on that, about assessing where they are in terms of their data landscape. And now AWS and its tools, which you just touched on. You know, the multiple tools you have in your service. Now, all that comes together to develop what would be I guess, a unique program for a company's specific needs. >> It is. We started talking to the largest enterprise accounts when we were founded and we still have a real proclivity and expertise in that area. So the issues with the large enterprise accounts and the uniqueness there is scale. They have a tremendous amount of data: HR data financial data, customer data, you name it. Right? Like, we could go dry mouth talking about how many insane data so many times with these large customers. For AWS, scale wasn't an issue. They can store it. They can analyze it. They can do tons with it. Where we were helping is that we could make that safer. So if you want to perform data analytics, you want to ensure that sensitive data is not being part of that. You want to make sure you're not violating local, national or industry specific regulations. Financial services is a great example. There's dozens of regulations at the federal level in United States. And each state has their own regulations. This becomes increasingly complex. So AWS handles this by allowing an amazing amount of customization for their customers. They have data centers in the right places. They have experts on vertical specific issues. BigID handles this similarly in some ways, but we handle it through extensibility. So one of our big things is we have to be able to connect to everywhere where our customers have data. So we want to build a foundation of like let's say first, let's understand the goals. Is the goal compliant with the law? Which it should be for everybody. That should just be like, we need to comply with the law. Like that's easy. Yeah. Then there's the next piece, like are we dealing with something legacy? Was there a breach? Do we need to understand what happened? Are we trying to be forward-looking and understanding? We want to make sure we can lock down our most sensitive data. Tier our storage, tier our security, tier are our analytics efforts which also is cost-effective. So you don't have to do everything everywhere. Or is the goal a little bit like we needed to get our return on investment faster. And we can't do that without de-risking some of that. So we've taken those lessons from the enterprise where it's exceedingly difficult to work because of the strict requirements because the customers expect more. And I think like AWS, we're bringing it down market. We have some new product coming out. It's exclusive for AWS now called SmallID, which is a cloud native. A smaller version, lighter weight version of our product for customers in the more commercial space. In the SMB space where they can start to build a foundation of understanding their data for protection and for security, for privacy. >> Will, and before I let you go here what I'd like to hear about is practical application. You know, somebody that you've, you know, that you were able to help and assist, you evaluated. 'Cause you've talked about the format here. You talked about your process and talked about some future, I guess, challenges, opportunities. But just to give our viewers an idea of maybe the kind of success you've already had. To give them a perspective on that. Just share a couple of stories, if you wouldn't mind. Whether there's some work that you guys did and rolled up your sleeves and created that additional value for your customers. >> Yeah, absolutely. So I'll give a couple examples. I'm going to keep everyone anonymized. As a privacy based company, in many ways, we try to respect-- >> Probably a good idea, right? (Will chuckles) >> But let's talk about different types of sensitive data. So we have customers that intellectual property is their biggest concern. So they do care about compliance. They want to comply with all the local and national laws where their company resides and all their offices are. But they were very concerned about sensitive data sprawl around intellectual property. They have a lot of patents. They have a lot of sensitive data that way. So one of the things we did is we were able to provide custom tags and classifications for their sensitive data based on intellectual property. And they could see across their cloud environment, across their on-premise environment, across shared drives et cetera, where sensitive data had sprawl. Where it had moved, who's having access to it. And they were able to start realigning their storage strategy and their content management strategy, data governance strategy, based on that. And start to move sensitive data back to certain locations, lock that down on a higher level. Could create more access control there, but also proliferate and share data that more teams needed access to. And so that's an example of a use case that I don't think we imagined necessarily in 2016 when we were focused on privacy but we've seen that the value can come from it. Yeah. >> So it's a good... Please, yeah, go ahead. >> No, I mean, the other (mumbles). So we've worked with some of the largest AWS customers in the world. Their concern is how do we even start to scan the Tedder terabytes and petabytes of data in any reasonable fashion without it being out of date. If we create this data map, if we create this data inventory, it's going to be out of date day one. As soon as we say, it's complete, we've already added more. >> John: Right. >> That's where our scalability fits in. We were able to do a full scan of their entire AWS environment in months. And then keep up with the new data that was going into their AWS environment. This is huge. This was groundbreaking for them. So our hyper scan capability that we brought out, that we rolled out to AWS first, was a game changer for them. To understand what data they had, where it is, who's it is et cetera, at a way that they never thought they could keep up with. You know, I brought back to the beginning of code when the British government was keeping track of all the COVID cases on spreadsheets and spreadsheets broke. It was also out of date. As soon as they entered something else it was already out of date. They couldn't keep up with it. Like there's better ways to do that. Luckily they think they've moved on from that manual system. But automation using the correct human inputs when necessary. Then let machine learning, let big data take care of things that it can. Don't waste human hours that are precious and expensive unnecessarily. And make better decisions based on that data. >> Yeah. You raised a great point too which I hadn't thought of about. The fact is, you do your snapshot today and you start evaluating all their needs for today. And by the time you're able to get that done their needs have now exponentially grown. It's like painting the golden gate bridge. Right? You get done and now you got to paint it again, except it got bigger. We added lanes, but anyway. Hey, Will. Thanks for the time. We certainly appreciate it. Thanks for joining us here on the startup showcase. And just remind me that if you ever asked for my keys keep them out of that dumpster. Okay? (Will chuckles) >> Thanks, John. Glad to be here. >> Pleasure. (soft music)

>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders around the globe, these are cloud native insights. >> Welcome to another episode of Cloud Native Insights. I'm your host Stu Miniman and of course with Cloud Native Insights will really help understand you know, where we have gone from cloud, how we are taking advantage of innovation, a real driver for what happens in the spaces of course developers. You think back to the early days, it was often developers that were grabbing a credit card, using cloud services and then it had to be integrated into what was being done and the rest of the organization saw the large rise of DevOps and all the other pieces around that, that help bring in things like security and finance and the like. Happy to welcome to the program first time guest, William Janssen. He is the CEO of DeltaBlue. Deep in this discussion of cloud native DeltaBlue is a European company helping with continuous deployment across cross cloud providers in the space. William, thanks so much for joining us, nice to see you. >> Glad to be on the show, thank you Stu. >> All right, so one of the reasons I'm glad to have you on is because of some of the early episodes here, you know we were discussing really what cloud native is and what it should be. I had my first interview on the program, Joep Piscaer, who you know, had given the analogy and said when you talked about DevOps, DevOps isn't something you could buy. But it's something that lots of vendors would try to sell you. And we're trying to dispel, lots of companies out there, they're like, "Oh, cloud native, well we support Kubernetes. "And we have this tool and you should buy our cloud native, "you know, A, B, C or D." So, want to start a little first with what you see out there and what you think the ultimate goal and outcome of cloud native should be? >> I think cloud native, to start with your last question, I think cloud native should make life fun again. We have a lot of technical problems, we solve them in technical things. You mentioned Kubernetes but Kubernetes is solving a technical problem. And introducing another technical problem. So what I think cloud native should do is focus on what you're actually good at. So a developer should develop. Someone from the infrastructure, an operator, should focus on their key points and not try to mix it up. So, not Kubernetes, Kubernetes is again introducing another technical issue. Our view on cloud native is that people should have fun again and should be focusing on what they're good at. And so it's not about technology, it's about getting the procedures right and focusing on the things you love to do. And not to talk to the cross border, talk to a lot of developers and solve operational kind of things. That's what we try to solve and that's our view of cloud native. >> Yeah, I'll poke that a little bit because one thing you say, people should do what they're good at. It's really what is important for the business, what do we need to get done? There's often new skills that we need to do. So it's really great if we could just keep doing the same thing we're doing. We know how to do it. We optimize it, we play with all of our geek knobs. But the drumbeat that I hear is, we need to be agile, we need to be able to create new applications. IT needs to be responsive for the business and rather than in the past it was about, building this beautiful stack that we could optimize and build these pieces together. Today, the analogy I hear more is, there's layers out there, there's lots of different tooling, especially if you look at the developer world. There is just too many options out there. So, maybe bring us a little bit as to you know, what DeltaBlue does. How you look at allowing developers to build what they, new things that they need but not be, I guess the word, locked into a certain place or certain technology. >> Yes, I've been on IT for 20 years. So I've seen a lot of things go around. And when we started out with DeltaBlue, the only thing we had in mind is how could we make the lifecycle of applications and all the things you had to do, the government around applications way more easy. Back in the days, we already saw that containerization solved some of the issues. But it solves technical issues. So like when you start coding, you don't need to go to the network card anymore. We took the same approach to our cloud native approach. So we started on the top level. We started with applications in mind. And the things back in the day you had Bitnami already had the option to have a VM or standard installation of an application. So what we see is that nowadays, many developers and many organizations try to focus on that specific part, how to get your code into some kind of under configuration solution. We take that for granted. There are so many great solutions out there, already tried to solve that problem. So instead of reinventing that wheel again, we take that for granted. But we take another approach. We think that if the application is there, you need to test it. You need to take it into production. You want to have several versions of a specific application into the production environment. So what we've tried to solve with our platform is to make that part of the life cycle, let's call it horizontal version of your application lifecycle, not getting an application built or running up different stuff, we take that for granted. We take the horizontal approach. How to get your traditional application from your development environment to your testing, acceptance. That's a different kind of people test your application, security testing before you take it into production. And that should be all be done from a logical point of view. So we built one web interface, a logical portal. And you can simply drag and drop any type of application, not just a more than micro service oriented or Kubernetes based application but any type of application from your acceptance environment to your production environment. That's going to solve the real problem. So now, any business can have 10 different acceptance environments for even your old legacy SAP or your Intershop environment. That's going to get your business value. So going back to your definition of cloud native, getting that kind of abstraction between getting your and code your application and get it get somewhere up and running and all the stuff that's needs to be done from your development environment into the production environment. That's going to add to your business value. That's going to speed up your time to market, that's going to make sure that you have a better cloud quality because now you can test even your legacy application from 10 different points of view and 10 different types of different branches, all in a parallel environment. So, when we started with DeltaBlue, we took a different approach, took the technical stuff for granted, and focus on all the government around applications and the governance that's the thing, I think that's the most important part in the cloud native discussion. >> So governance, especially in Europe, has a lot of importance there. If you could, bring us inside a little bit, customers you're talking to, where they are in this journey. If you've got an example of something you're doing specifically we'd love to hear how that happens in real world. >> Yes we have many different customers but I think one of our best examples, for example is Wunderman Thompson, a big eCommerce party across the globe but also here in the Netherlands. And we made a blueprint of their development environment the way they develop application and the way they host applications. So, now they started a new project, 40 developers go to the new big eCommerce application. In the past, everyone had to install their own Intershop environment on their own laptop, Java, Oracle, that kind of stuff. It took me a day and a half. Since we abstracted that into like a simple cell, like you would do in any serverless environment nowadays, they can now simply click on a button. And since they made their laptop or their development environment part of our platform, they can now simply drag and drop the complete initial environment to the laptop and they can send development in 10 minutes instead of a day and a half. That's just the first step that makes their life easier. But also imagine, we have an application up and running for two, three months and our security patch, we all know the trouble of getting a patch installed in production but also then install it into the acceptance environment, test environment, development environment, all those kind of different versions. With our platform, since we have the application in mind, we can, with simple one simple click of the button, we can propagate that security patch across all the different environments. So from a developer point of view, there's no need to have any kind of knowledge of course they need to configure a port or something like that but no need of knowledge of any type of infrastructure anymore. We have made the same blueprint for the complete development environment. So with a single click of the button, they have a complete detail environment, known over the need to go to their infrastructure to get the service to their operating guys, they have them installed, industrial Nexus, very book of repository, all that kind of stuff. It's all within one blueprint. So again, we think that the application should come first. That should be abstracted, and not abstracted just in a single spin up a container or spinning up a VM. Now, the complete business case, application, complete environment should be up and running with a single click of a button. So now they can start if they have a demo tomorrow, for example, and they want to have a demo setup. With a single click, they have a complete environment up and running, instead of having to wait three weeks, four weeks before they can start coding. And the same comes with a production environment. We now have an intelligent proxy in front of it. So they can have three different versions of the same shot in their production environment. And based on business rules, we can spread the load against the different versions of a business application, eCommerce application. We signed a new contract with New Relic last week. And the next thing we're going to do, and it's going to be there in two weeks, is fit New Relic data, I mean, an eCommerce application is about performance. A longer response time of a page page load time will drop your drop your revenue. So what we're going to do with New Relic is feed it's performance data back into that the intelligent proxy in front of their application. So now they're going to drop the new version of their intershop application on a Thursday evening, they go to sleep. Friday morning, they wake up and from the three versions, and the best performing website will be up and running. That's the kind of intelligence and that's the kind of feedback we can put into our platform since we started with applications in mind first. It's getting better quality, because you can do better testing. I mean, we all want to test, but we never want to wait for those different kinds of setups, they want to have fast development cycles. That kind of flexibility where you do the functional deployment, the functional release, not the technical stuff. What we now see in the market is that most people, when they go to the cloud, try to solve the technical release problems of getting the application up and running in a technical way into the production time, we try to focus on the functional level. >> So, William, being data driven, a very important piece of what you talked about there. What I want to help our audience understand is concerns about if you talk about abstractions, or if you want to be able to live across different environments, is can you take advantage of the full capabilities of the underlying platform? Because, that is, one of the reasons we go to cloud isn't just because it's got limitless compute Pricing comes down. But there's only new features coming out, or I want to be able to go to, a cloud provider and take advantage of some specific feature. So help us understand how I can live across these environments, but still take advantage of those cloud native features and innovations as they come out. >> Great. There are actually two ways. For most alternatives, we also have an alternative component in our platform as well. We have complete marketplace with all kinds of functionality like AWS has, but I can imagine that people want to develop an AWS and get our AWS lambda functions or s3 buckets or that that kind of specific functionality. And going back to the Intershop example, they run their application as a CaaS solution on Azure. So when you went to Azure DevOps, or that kind of specific functionality included, our platform connects over 130 different data centers across the globe and Azure and AWS, and Oviedo Digital Ocean are all part of the huge mix of different cloud providers. For every provider, we have what we call gateway components. We deploy natively, mostly bare metal or equivalents of bare metal within those cloud providers. And we made an abstraction layer on the network layer. So now we can include those kind of specific services like they were part of our platform natively. Because if we would have just build a layer and couldn't use the specific components of an AWS or an Azure or that kind of stuff, we would just be another hosting provider. I haven't liked VMware. So that kind of stuff. We want to and we are aware that we need to include a specific stuff, functionality. And what we do with this with what we call gateway components. So we have AWS, gay components, educators, but also for IBM, or Google specific environment. So we can combine the network of AWS, with our specific network. And that's possible, because we made a complete abstraction layer between the network of the infrastructure provider and our network. So we can complete IP subnets DNS resolver as if it was running on their local environment. And thereby, since we have that abstraction layer, we can even move the workloads on AWS to Azure. And since we have the abstraction layer network, we can even make sure that you don't need to reconfigure your application. I think that's the flexibility that people are looking for. And if they have a specific workload and Azure and it's getting too expensive, for the ones that includes AWS stuff, they want to shift the workload to different kind of cloud providers based on the characteristics of a specific worker, or even if you want to have the cheapest option, you can even use your on premise data center. >> William, do that there absolutely is interest in doing that. One of the barriers to being able to just go between environments is of course that the skills required to do this. So, there's something to be said about, if I use a single provider, I understand how to do it, I understand how to optimize it, I understand the finances of it. And while there may be very similar things in another cloud, or in my own data center, the management tools are different and everything. So how do we overcome, that skill set challenge, between different environments. >> We had a different approach the same as we do it on application level, we took it also in data center level, so we're going to handle most cannot say all because there's always specific components. But from our interface, you can simply go to a specific application and select the type of data center you want to run on your application. And if your application is running on an AWS, you get the gateway components with the components, like an s3 bucket or a lambda or an RDS, based on the data center you're running in. So we took that abstraction layer even on that level. But I got to be honest, I think 80% of our customers is not interested in the data center, they run their application in unless they have specific functionality, and which is not available on our platform, or they have a long running application, or use a specific or they bought a specific application. Otherwise, they don't care. Because from a traditional application, there is no difference between running on Azure or Google Cloud or an IBM cloud or whatever. The main difference is that we can make a guarantee about the SLA. I mean, IBM has a better uptime guarantee. A better performance and a better network compared to let's say, digitalocean. Kind of set this up. But there is a huge difference. But it's more like the guarantee that we can give them. So we have this abstraction layers, and we try to put as many as possible as much as possible into our portal interface. There will no way that we're going to redesign and we work about the complete AWS interface, or we're not going to include 100% of their functionality. That's not possible. We're, small company. AWS is somewhat more developers in place. But the main components and people are asking for like RDS or these kind of specific setups, that's where we have the gateway components for available and they can include them into their own application. But we also going to advise them why they were looking for those specific AWS components. Is it within the application architecture or is it something gauges right? Isn't there a better solution or an other solution? And I think, since we have that objection that one of the biggest benefits is, and what we see our customers also do is we incorporate that data center into our platform. And we have one huge network across all the cloud providers and including their own data center. So in the past, they had to have two different development teams, one specialized in AWS development, with all that kind of specific stuff. And all one development team which had more like a traditional point of view, because their internal system and data which was not allowed to go outside the company or had to stay within the firewall. And since we have now one big network, which is transparent to them, we can make sure that their code for their internal systems stays internal and is running on internal systems. But we could still use some kind of functionality from the outside. We do it all unencrypted today, and we have one big platform available. So with our gateway components, we can make sure that that data and application data is really staying internally. And only is allowed to grow internal data access and that kind of stuff, but still use external functionality or price. But again, I would say 80% of our customers, they don't care because they just want to get rid of the burden. I think going back to what we think cloud native means is just getting rid of the burden. And you shouldn't be concerned about what type of cloud we're actually using. >> Absolutely, William, the goal of infrastructure support, my applications and my data and we want companies to be able to focus on what is important for the business and not get bogged down and certain technical arguments introduction. So William, thank you so much for joining us. Really great to hear about Delta blue. Looking forward to hearing more in the future. >> Thank you. >> I'm Stu Miniman. And look forward to hearing more of your cloud native insights.

from the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world this is a cube conversation LeBron welcome to the cube studio I'm John Ferrier here in Palo Alto in our remote coverage of the tech industry we are in our quarantine crew here getting all the stories in the technology industry from all the thought leaders and all the newsmakers we've got a great story here about data data compliance and really about the platforms around how enterprises are using data I've got two great guests and some news to announce Kieran our CEO is the vice president of business development with elation and William Murphy vice president of technology alliances of big ID got some interesting news a integration partnership between the two companies really kind of compelling especially now as people have to look at the cloud scale what's happening in our world certainly in the new realities of kovin 19 and going forward the role of data new kinds of applications and the speed and agility are gonna require more and more automation more reality around making sure things are in place so guys thanks for coming on appreciate it Kieran William thanks for joining me thank you thank you so let's take a step back elation you guys have been on the cube many times we've been following you guys been a leader and Enterprise catalog a new approach it's a real new technology approach and methodology and team approach to building out the data catalogues so talk about the Alliance here why what's the news why you guys in Creighton is integration partnership well let me start and thank you for having us today you know as you know elation launched the data catalog a category seven years ago and even today we're acknowledging the leader as a leader in that space you know and but we really began with the core belief that ultimately data management will be drive driven more and more by business demand and less by information suppliers so you know another way to think about that is you know how people behave with data will drive how companies manage data so our philosophy put very simply is to start with people and not first not data and our customers really seem to agree with this approach and we've got close to 200 brands using our data you know our tool every single day to drive vibrant data communities and and foster a real data culture in the environment so one of the things that was really exciting to us is the in been in data privacy by large corporate customers to get their arms around this and you know we really strive to improve our ability to use the tool inside you know these enterprises across more use cases so the partnership that we're announcing with big ID today is really you know Big Ideas the leading modern data intelligence platform for privacy and what we're trying to do is to bring bring a level of integration between our two technologies so that enterprises in better manage and scale their their data privacy compliance capability William talked about big ID what you guys are doing you guys also have a date intelligence platform we've been covering gdpr for a very long time I once called I won't say it again because it wasn't really that complimentary but the reality has sit in and they and the users now understand more than ever privacy super important companies have to deal with this you guys have a solution take a minute to explain big-big ID and what you guys are doing yeah absolutely so our founders Demetri Shirota and Nimrod Beck's founded big idea in 2016 Sam you know gdpr was authored and the big reason there is that data changed and how companies and enterprises doubled data was changing pretty much forever that profound change meant that the status quo could no longer exist and so privacy was gonna have to become a day-to-day reality to these enterprises but what big ID realized is that to start to do to do anything with privacy you actually have to understand where your data is what it is and whose it is and so that's really the genesis of what dimitri nimrod created which which is a privacy centric data discovery and intelligence platform that allows our enterprise customers and we have over 70 customers in the enterprise space many within the Fortune hundred to be able to find classify and correlate sensitive data as they defined it across data sources whether its own Prem or in the cloud and this gives our users and kind of unprecedented ability to look into their data to get better visibility which if both allows for collaboration and also allows for real-time decision-making a big place with better accuracy and confidence that regulations are not being broken and that customers data is being treated appropriately great I'm just reading here from the release that I want to get you guys thoughts and unpack some of the concepts on here but the headline is elation strengthens privacy capabilities with big ID part nur ship empowering organizations to mitigate risks delivering privacy aware data use and improved adherence to data privacy regulations it's a mouthful but the bottom line is is that there's a lot of stuff to that's a lot of complexity around these rules and these platforms and what's interesting you mentioned discovery the enterprise discovery side of the business has always been a complex nightmare I think what's interesting about this partnership from my standpoint is that you guys are bringing an interface into a complex platform and creating an easy abstraction to kind of make it usable I mean the end of the day you know we're seeing the trends with Amazon they have Kendre which they announced and they're gonna have a ship soon fast speed of insights has to be there so unifying data interfaces with back-end is really what seems to be the pattern is that the magic going on here can you guys explain what's going on with this and what's the outcome gonna be for customers yeah I guess I'll kick off and we'll please please chime in I think really there's three overarching challenges that I think enterprises are facing is they're grappling with these regulations as as we'll talked about you know number one it's really hard to both identify and classify private data right it's it's not as easy as it might sound and you know we can talk a little bit more about that it's also very difficult to flag at the point of analysis when somebody wants to find information the relevant policies that might apply to the given data that they're looking to it to run an analysis on and lastly the enterprise's are constantly in motion as enterprises change and by new businesses and enter new markets and launch new products these policies have to keep up with that change and these are real challenges to address and you know with Big Idea halation we're trying to really accelerate that compliance right with the the you know the combination of our tools you know reduce the the cost and complexity of compliance and fundamentally keep up through a single interface so that users can know what to do with data at the point of consumption and I think that's the way to think about it well I don't know if you want to add something to that absolutely I think when Karen and I have been working on this for actually many months at this point but most companies don't have a business plan of just saying let's store as much data as possible without getting anything out of it but in order to get something out of it the ability to find that data rapidly and then analyze it so that decision makers make up-to-date decisions is pretty vital a lot of these things when they have to be done manually take a long time they're huge business issues there and so the ability to both automate data discovery and then cataloging across elation and big ID gives those decision makers whether the data steward the data analyst the chief data officer an ability to really dive deeper than they have previously with better speed you know one of the things that we've been talking about for a long time with big data as these data links and they're fairly easy to pull I mean you can put a bunch of data into a corpus and you you act on them but as you start to get across these silos there's a need for you know getting a process down around managing just not only the data wrangling but the policies behind it and platforms are becoming more complex can you guys talk about the product market fit here because there's sass involved so there's also a customer activity what's the product market fit that you guys see with this integration what are some of the things that you're envisioning to emerge out of this value proposition I think I can start I think you're exactly right enterprises have made huge investments in you know historically data warehouses data Mart's data lakes all kinds of other technology infrastructure aimed at making the data easier to get to but they've effectively just layered on to the problem so elations catalog has made it incredibly much more effective at helping organizations to find to understand trust to reuse and use that data so that stewards and people who know about the data can inform users who may need need to run a particular report or conduct a specific analysis can accelerate that process and compress the time the insights much much more than then it's are possible with today's technologies and if you if you overlay that on to the data privacy challenge its compounded and I think you know will it would be great for you to comment on what the data discovery capability it's a big ID do to improve that that even further yeah absolutely so as to companies we're trying to bridge this gap between data governance and privacy and and John as you mentioned there's been a proliferation of a lot of tools whether their data lakes data analysis tools etc what Big Idea is able to do is we're looking across over 70 different types of data platforms whether they be legacy systems like SharePoint and sequel whether they be on pram or in the cloud whether it's data at rest or in motion and we're able to auto populate our metadata findings into relations data catalog the main purpose there being that those data stewards and have access to the most authentic real time data possible so on the terms of the customer value they're going to see what more built in privacy aware features is its speed but you know what I mean the problem is compounded with the data getting that catalog and getting insights out of it but for this partnership is it speed to outcome what does the outcome that you guys are envisioning here for the customer I think it's a combination of speed as you said you know they can much more rapidly get up to speed so an analyst who needs to make a decision about specific data set whether they can use it or not and know at the point of analysis if this data is governed by policies that has been informed by big IDs so the elation catalog user can make a much more rapid decision about how to use that the second piece is the complexity and costs of compliance they can really reduce and start to winnow down their technology footprint because with the combination of the discovery that big ID provides the the the ongoing discovery the big ID provides and the enterprise it data catalog provided violation we give the framework for being able to keep up with these changes in policies as rules and as companies change so they don't have to keep reinventing the wheel every time so we think that there's a significant speed time the market advantage as well as an ability to really consolidate technology footprint well I'll add to that yeah yeah just one moment so elation when they helped create this marketplace seven years ago one of the goals there and I think we're Big Ideas assisting as well as the trusting confidence that both the users of these software's the data store of the analysts have and the data that they're using and then the the trust and confidence are building with their end consumers is much better knowing that there is the this is both bi-directional and ongoing continuously you know I've always been impressed with relations vision it's big vision around the role of the human and data and it's always been impressive and yeah I think the world spinning in that direction you starting to see that now William I want to get your thoughts with big id because you know one of the things is challenging out there from what we're hearing is you know people want to protect the sensitive data obviously with the hacks and everything else and personal information there's all kinds of regulation and believe me state by state nation by nation it's crazy complex at the same time they've got to ensure this compliance tripwires everywhere right so you have this kind of nested complex web of stuff and some real security concerns at the same time you want to make data available for machine learning and for things like that this is the real kind of things that the problem has twisted around so if I'm an enterprise I'm like oh man this is a pain in the butt so how are you guys seeing this evolve because this solution is one step in that direction what are some of the pain points what are some of the examples can you share any insights around how people are overcoming that because they want to get the data out there they want to create applications that are gonna be modern robust and augmented with whether it's augmented AI of some sort or some sort of application at the same time protecting the information and compliance it's a huge problem challenge your thoughts absolutely so to your point regulations and compliance measures both state-by-state and internationally they're growing I mean I think when we saw GDP our four years ago in the proliferation of other things whether it be in Latin America in Asia Pacific or across the United States potentially even at the federal level in the future it's not making it easier to add complexity to that every industry and many companies individually have their own policies in the way that they describe data whether what's sensitive to them is it patent numbers is it loyalty card numbers is it any number of different things where they could just that that enterprise says that this type of data is particularly sensitive the way we're trying to do this is we're saying that if we can be a force multiplier for the individuals within our organization that are in charge of the stewardship over their data whether it be on the privacy side on the security side or on the data and analytics side that's what we want to do and automation is a huge piece of this so yes the ID has a number of patents in the machine learning area around data discovery and classification cluster analysis being able to find duplicate of data out there and when we put that in conjunction with what elations doing and actually gave the users of the data the kind of unprecedented ability to curate deduplicate secure sensitive data all by a policy driven automated platform that's actually I think the magic gear is we want to make sure that when humans get involved their actions can be made how do I say this minimum minimum human interaction and when it's done it's done for a reason of remediation so they're there the second step not the first step here I'll get your thoughts you know I always riff on the idea of DevOps and it's a cloud term and when you apply that the data you talk about programmability scale automation but the humans are making calls whether you're a programmer and devops world or to a data customer of the catalog and halation i'm making decisions with my business I'm a human I'm taking action at the point of design or whatever this is where I think the magic can happen your thoughts on how this evolves for that use case because what you're doing is you're augmenting the value for the user by taking advantage of these things is is that right or am i around the right area yeah I think so I think the one way to think about elation and that analogy is that the the biggest struggle that enterprise business users have and we target the the consumers of data we're not a provider to the information suppliers if you will but the people who had need to make decisions every single day on the right set of data we're here to empower them to be able to do that with the data that they know has been given the thumbs up by people who know about the data connecting stewards who know about the subject matter at hand with the data that the analyst wants to use at the time of consumption and that powerful connection has been so effective in our customers that enabling them to do in our analytical work that they just couldn't dream of before so the key piece here is with the combination with big ID we can now layer in a privacy aware consumption angle which means if you have a question about running some customer propensity model and you don't know if you can use this data or that data the big ID data discovery platform informs the elation catalog of the usage capabilities of that given data set at the moment the analyst wants conduct his or her analysis with the appropriate data set as identified by the stewards and and as endorsed by the steward so that point in time is really critical because that's where the we can we can fundamentally shrink the decision sight yeah it's interesting and so have the point of attack on the user in this case the person in the business who's doing some real work that's where the action is yeah it's a whole nother meaning of actionable data right so you know this seems to where the values quits its agility really it's kind of what we're talking about here isn't it it is very agile on the differentiation between elation and big idea in what we're bringing to the market now is we're also bringing flexibility and you meant that the point of agility there is because we allow our customers to say what their policies are what their sense of gait is define that themselves within our platforms and then go out find that data classify and catalog at etc like that's giving them that extra flexibility the enterprise's today need so that it can make business decisions and faster and I actually operationalize data guys great job good good news it's I think this is kind of a interesting canary in the coal mine around the trends that are going on around how data is evolving what's next how you guys gonna go to market partnership obviously makes a lot of sense technical integration business model integration good fit what's next for you guys I'm sorry I mean I think the the great thing is that you know from the CEO down our organizations are very much aligned in terms of how we want to integrate our two solutions and how we want to go to market so myself and will have been really focused on making sure that the skill sets of the various constituents within both of our companies have the level of education and knowledge to bring these results to bear coupled with the integration of our two technologies well your thoughts yeah absolutely I mean between our CEOs who have a good cadence to care to myself who probably spend too much time on the phone at this point we might have to get him a guest bedroom or something alignments a huge key here ensuring that we've enabled our field to - and to evangelize this out to the marketplace itself and then doing whether it's this or our webinars or or however we're getting the news out it's important that the markets know that these capabilities are out there because the biggest obstacle honestly to adoption it's not that other solutions or build-it-yourself it's just lack of knowledge that it could be easier it could be done better that you could have you could know your data better you could catalog it better great final question to end the segment message to the potential customer out there what it what about their environment that might make them a great prospect for this solution is it is it a known problem is it a blind spot when would someone know to call you guys up in this to ship and leverage this partnership is it too much data as it's just too much many applications across geographies I'm just trying to understand the folks watching when it's an opportunity to call you guys welcome a relation perspective there that can never be too much data they the a signal that may may indicate an interest or a potential fit for us would be you know the need to be compliant with one or more data privacy regulations and as well said these are coming up left and right individual states in the in addition to the countries are rolling out data privacy regulations that require a whole set of capabilities to be in place and a very rigorous framework of compliance those those requirements and the ability to make decisions every single day all day long about what data to use and when and under what conditions are a perfect set of conditions for the use of a data catalog evacuation coupled with a data discovery and data privacy solution like big I well absolutely if you're an organization out there and you have a lot of customers you have a lot of employees you have a lot of different data sources and disparate locations whether they're on prime of the cloud these are solid indications that you should look at purchasing best-of-breed solutions like elation and Big Ideas opposed to trying to build something internally guys congratulations relations strengthening your privacy capabilities with the big ID partnership congratulations on the news and we'll we'll be tracking it thanks for coming I appreciate it thank you okay so cube coverage here in Palo Alto on remote interviews as we get through this kovat crisis we have our quarantine crew here in Palo Alto I'm John Fourier thanks for watching [Music] okay guys

>>long from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering a ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners. >>Welcome back to the Cube. We are in Las Vegas, Lisa Martin with John Wall's. I'm very excited that we're kind of color coordinated >>way. Didn't compare notes to begin with, but certainly the pink thing. It's worth it if >>you like. You complete me. >>Oh, thank you. Really, Joe, I don't hear that very often. My wife says that >>you tell that we're at the end of day one of the coverage of A W s three in bed. Good day, though. Yes, it has been very excited. We have a couple of guests joining us for our final segment on this. Please welcome. We have Bill Gerard CTO of Digital Transformation and Scale solutions at Intel Bill, welcome to our show. >>Thank you very much. Happy to be here >>And one of our friends. That's no stranger to the Cube. One of our former host, Bobby Allyn, the CEO of Cloud Generate. Bobby. >>Thank you. Thank you for having us. >>Guys, here we are. This there has not been a lull in the background noise all day. Not reinvent day one. But Bobby want to start with you. Talk to her audience about cloud genera. Who are you guys? What do you do? And what's different about what you're delivering? >>One of the first things is different about Claude Generous where we're located. So we're in Charlotte, which I call Silicon South. So we're kind of representing the East Coast, and we're a company that focuses, focuses on helping with workload, placement and transformation. So where you don't know whether something should go on from off grim. If you put it in Amazon, which service's should have consumed licensing models? Pricing models way help you make data driven decisions, right? So you're not just going based on opinion, you're going based on fact. >>And that's challenging because, you know, in the as, as John Ferrier would say, No Cloud Wanda Otto, which was compute network storage, it was the easy I shouldn't say easy, but the lift and shit applications that enterprises do are these workloads should go to the cloud. Now we have you know what's left over, and that's challenging for organization. Some of the legacy once can't move. How do you help from a Consul Tatum's down point that customers evaluate workloads? What data are they running? What the value that data has and if they are able to move some of those more challenging applications. >>So part of the framework for us, Lisa, is we want to make sure we understand what people are willing and able to change right, because sometimes it's not just about lower costs. Sometimes it's about agility, flexibility, deploying a different region. So what we often start with his wit is better look like you would assist us with life for your organization. And so then, based on that, we analyze the applications with an objective, data driven framework and then make sure the apse land where they're supposed to go. We're not selling any skewer product. We're selling advice to give you inside about what you should do, >>Bobby, I think. And maybe Bill to you could chime in here on this. If you give people a choice, What does this look like? What you know, What do you want? I don't want to do anything right. I want to stay put, right? But that obviously that's not an option, But you I'm sure you do get pushed back quite a bit from these almost the legacy mindset. And we've talked a lot about this whole transformation versus transition. Some people don't want to go, period. So how do you cajole them? Persuade them bring them along on this journey? Because it's gonna be a long trip. Yeah, I think you gotta pack a lunch. >>It's a good point. I think what we've seen, most of them have data experience that this is a tried and elements didn't get the results that they expected. This is where you know, the partnership that we have with call General. Really? You know that data driven, intelligent, based planning is super important, right? We want to really fundamentally health organizations move the right workloads, make sure they get the right results and not have to redo it. Right? And so part of that, you know, move when you're either past scars or not used to what you're doing. Give him the data and the information to be able to do that intelligently and make that as fast as they can. And you know, at the right, you know, experience in performance from a capability perspective. >>So so many businesses these days, if they're not legacy if they're not looking in the rear view mirror, what is the side mirror site? Objects are closer than they appear, even for Amazon. Right? For all of these companies, there are smaller organizations that might be born in a cloud compared to the legacy two words. And if they're not looking at, we have to transform from the top down digitally, truly transform. Their business may not be here in a year or two, so the choice and I think they need to pack a lunch and a hip flask for this because it's quite the journey. But I'm curious with the opportunity that cloud provides. When you have these consultation conversations, what are This? Could be so transformative not just to a business, but to a do an entire industry. Bill talked to us from your perspective about some of the things that you've seen and how this next generation of cloud with a I machine learning, for example, can can really transfer like what's the next industry that you think is prime to be really flipped upside down? >>Well, the good news is I think most of the industries in the segment that we talked to have realized they need to some level of transformation. So doing the business as usual really isn't an option to really grow and drive in the future. But I do think the next evolution really does center on what's happening in a I and analytics. Whether it's, you know, moving manufacturing from video based defect detection, supply chain integrity. You know what's happening from a retail was really the first in that evolution, but we see it in health care in Federal Data Center modernization, and it's really moving at a faster pace and adopting those cloud technologies wherever they needed, both in their data center in the public, cloud out of the edge. And we'll start to see a real shift from really consolidation in tow. Large hyper converts, data centers to distributed computing where everything again. And that's where we're excited about the work we're doing with the Amazon, the work we're doing with Eyes V partners to be at the capability where they need it, but I think it will be really the next. Evolution of service is everywhere. >>Never talk us through an example or use case of a customer that you're working with, a cloud genera with intel and and a W S. What does that trifecta look like for, say, a retailer or financial service is organization >>so that that looks like this? ELISA. When we when we talk about workload placement, we think that most companies look at that as a single question. It's at least a five fold question. Right there is the venue. There's the service. There's the configuration, the licensing model and the pricing model. You need to look at all five of those things. So even if you decided on a DBS is your strategic partner, we're not done yet. So we have a very large financialservices customer that I can't name publicly. But we've collaborated with them to analyze tens of thousands of workloads, some that go best off from some that go best on for him. And they need guidance and coaching on things like, Are you paying for redhead twice your pay for licensing on him? Are you also paying for that in the cloud? There are things that maybe should be running an RT s database as a service. Here's your opportunity to cut down on labor and shift some of the relationships tohave, toe re index and databases is not glamorous or differential to value for your business. Let's take advantage of what a TBS does well and make this better for your company. One of the things that I want to kind of introduce to piggyback on your question. We lean on people process technology as kind of the three, the three legged horse in the Enterprise. I want to change that people process product or people process problem. We're falling in love with the tech and getting lazy. Technology should be almost ubiquitous or under the covers to make a product better or to solve a problem for the customer. >>Well, maybe on that, I mean automation concern to come in and make a big play here because we're taking all these new tasks if you could automate them that you free your people, your developers to do their thing right. So you raise an interesting point on that about being lazy and relying on things. But yet you do want off put our offload some of these nasty not to free up that creativity and free up the people to do what they're supposed to be doing. It's a delicate balance, though, isn't it? It is. It is. This >>is where I think the data driven, you know, informed decisions important. We did a lot of research with Cloud Jenner and our customers, and there's really four key technical characteristics when evaluating workload. The 1st 1 of course, is the size of the data. Where is the created words They use Words that consumed the 2nd 1? Is the performance right? Either performance not only to other systems around it or the end user, but the performance of the infrastructure. What do you need out of the capability? The level of integration with other systems? And then, of course, security. We hear that time and again, right? Regulatory needs. What are we having from top secret data to company sensitive data? Really Getting that type of information to drive those workload placement decision becomes at the forefront of that on getting, you know, using cloud gender to help understand the number of interfaces in and out the sides of the data. The performance utilization of the system's really helps customers understand how to move the right workload. What's involved and then how to put that in the right eight of us instance, and use the right ideas capabilities, >>and you and you both have hit on something here because the complexity of this decision, because it's multi dimensional, you talked about the five points a little bit ago. Now you talked about four other factors. Sue, this is not a static environment, No, and to me that as you're making a decision, that point is what's very difficult for, I would assume for the people that you're interfacing with on the company level. Yes, because it's a moving target for them, right? They just it's it's dynamic and changing your data flows exponentially. Increasing capabilities are changing. How do you keep them from just breaking down? >>I don't want to jump in on that, because again, I'm going to repeat this again. That my thesis is often technology is the easy part. We need to have conversations about what we want to do. And so I had a conversation earlier today. Think of Amazon like a chef. They could make anything I want, but I need to decide what I want to eat. If I'm a vegan and he wants steak. That's not Amazons fault. If they can't cook something, that's a mismatch of a bad conversation. We need to communicate. So what I'm finding is a lot of executives are worried about this. There were Then you're going to give me the right the wrong answer to the right question. The reality is you may have the wrong question. First of all right, the question is usually further upstream, so the worry that you're gonna give me the wrong answer to the right question. But often you need to worry that you're getting your starting with the wrong question. You're gonna get the right answer asked the right question first. And then you got a chance to get to the final destination. But >>and then he in this multi cloud world that many organizations live in, mostly not My strategy could be by Emma A could be bi developer preference for different solutions. A lot of Serios air telling us we've inherited a lot of this multi cloud and technical debt. Exactly. So does not just compound the problem because to your point, I mean you think of one way we hear so many different stats about the number of clouds that on average enterprises using is like 5 to 9. That whole world. That's a reality for organizations. So in terms of how the business can be transformed by what you guys are doing together, it seems like there's a tremendous opportunity there. But to your point, Bobby, where do you start? How do you help them understand what? That right first question is at the executive level so that those four technical points that Bill talked about Tek thee you know, the executive staff is all on board with Yes, this is the question we're asking then will understand it. The technology is right. Sold >>it. It's got to start with, Really? What? The company's business imperatives, right? It can't start with an I t objective. It's it's Are we moving into new markets? Do we need thio deploy capabilities faster? Are we doing a digital customer experience? Transformation? Are we deploying new factories, new products into new regions, and so really the first areas? What's the core company strategy, imperatives of the business objectives? And >>then how >>does I t really help them achieve that? In some cases, it may be we have to shift and reduce our data center footprints way have to move capabilities to where we have a new region. Deployments, right? We've got to get him over to Europe. We don't have capabilities in Europe. We're going to Asia. I've got a mobile sales force now where I need to get that customer, meet the customer where they're doing, you know, in the retail store, and >>that >>really then leads quite simply, too. What are the capabilities that we have in house that we're using? >>How are >>they being utilized? And he's using them, and then how do we get them to where they need to be? Some cases accost, imperative. Some cases and agility, Time to market and another's and we're seeing this more often is really what are the new sets of technologies? A. I service is training in forgetting that we're not experience to do and set up, and we don't want to spend the time to go train our infrastructure teams on the technology. So we'll put our data scientists in there figuring out the right set of workloads, the right set of technology, that we can then transform and move our applications to utilize it really starts, I think with the business conversation, or what's the key inflection point that they're experiencing? >>And have you seen that change in the last few years that now it's where you know, cloud not cloud. What goes on Cloud was an I t conversation to your point, Bill. And then the CEO got involved in a little bit later. But now we're we're seeing and hearing the CEO has got to be involved from a business imperative perspective. >>Share some data, right? Uh, so, you know, a couple of years ago, everybody was pursuing cloud largely for cost. Agility started to become primary, and that's still very important. A lot of the internal enterprise data modernizations were essentially stalled a bit because they were trying to figure how much do we move to the the public cloud, right. We want to take advantage of those modern service is at that time, we did a lot of research with our partners. He was roughly 56% of enterprise workload for in their own data center. You know, the rest of them Republic Cloud. And then we saw really the work, the intelligent workload discussion that says we've had some false starts. Organizations now really consistently realize they need both, you know, their own infrastructure and public cloud, and we've actually seen on increase of infrastructure modernization. While they're moving more and more stuff to the cloud, they're actually growing there on centre. It's now roughly 59% on Prem today for that same business, and that's largely because they're using more. Cloud service is that they're also even using Maur on premise, and they're realizing it's a balance and not stalling one or starving one and then committing to the other the committing to both and really just growing the business where it needs to go. >>Strategic reasons. All right? >>Yes, well, there should be four strategic reasons. There aren't always back to your question about which question asked. One of the questions I often ask is, What do you think the benefits will be if you go to cloud? And part of what happens is is not a cloud capability? Problem is an expectation problem. You're not gonna put your GOP system in the cloud and dropped 30% costs in a month, and so that's where we need to have a conversation on, You know, let's iterating on what this is actually gonna look like. Let's evolve the organization. Let's change our thinking. And then the other part of this and this were clouded or an intel come in. Let's model with simulation looks like. So we're gonna take those legacy work clothes unless model containers. Let's model Micro Service is so before you have to invest in transformation to may not make sense. Let's see what the outcome's look like through simulation through a through M l and understand. Where does it make sense to apply? The resource is, you know, to double click on that solution that will help the business. >>I was gonna finish my last question, Bobby, with you saying, Why, Cloud General? But I think you just answered that. So last question for you, though, from from an expectation perspective, give me one of your favorite examples of customer whatever kind of industry there and that you've come in and helped them really level, set their expectations and kick that door wide open. >>That's tough, many >>to choose from. >>Yeah, let me let me try to tackle that one quickly. Store's computer databases. Those are all things that people look at I think what people are struggling with the most in terms of kind of expectations is what they're willing and able to change. So this is kind of what I leave on. Bill and I talked about this earlier today. A product is good, a plan is better. A partnership is best. Because with the enterprises of saying is, we're overwhelmed. Either fix it for me or get in there with me and do it right. Be in this together. So what we've learned is it's not about were close applications. It's all kind of the same. We need help. We're overwhelmed. I want a partner in telling Claude Juncker the get in this thing with me. Help me figure this out because I told you this cloud is at best a teenager. They just learned how to drive is very capable, but it needs some guard rails. >>I love that. Thanks you guys So much for explaining with Johnny what you guys are doing together and how you're really flipping the model for what customers need to be evaluated and what they need to be asking. We appreciate your time. >>Thank you for having us >>our pleasure. Thank you. for John Wall's I'm Lisa Martin. You've been watching the Cube at Reinvent 19 from Vegas. Wants to go tomorrow.

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media Office in Boston, Massachusets, it's theCUBE. Now here's your host Stu Miniman. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and welcome to a CUBE Conversation, here in our Boston area studio. Happy to welcome back to the program, William Toll who is the head of product marketing, at Acronis. Fresh of the Acronis Global Cyber Summit, down in Miami. Thanks so much for joining us William. >> Great. Thanks Stu, thanks for having me. >> All right, so you had your customers, your partners, you had the speakers. Miami Beach, (mumbles) lovely view down there. It's a little chillier up here in the Boston area. Why don't you bring us some of the energy and announcements that you had at the show for those who might not have caught it. >> Sure, I have to say it was and amazing event. The feedback that we've gotten from our partners, from our customers, from everyone that attended was fantastic. For a company like Acronis, we've been in business for 17 years. Providing data protection, cyber protection solutions. We really hit the ball out of the park, for our first customer event, the eco-system really came together and it was a couple days of learning and understanding the future of cyber protection. >> So William, while the term Cyber is on everyone's lip these days. You can't turn on the news without hearing about the latest security threat. Everyone's concerned about this. Maybe just give us Acronis's definition of what cyber protection is. >> Sure, cyber protection is the combination of data protection and cyber security. We believe that the world is becoming more digital, and data's becoming more valuable. It is essential that cyber protections solutions protect that data, protect it from being lost. Protect that data from being stolen. And protect that data from being manipulated. When you look at traditional data protection solutions that really don't incorporate any kind of security solutions, you're really putting that data at risk and the future is cyber protection. >> Okay so when I talk to data protection companies, all of them were talking about ransomware as one of the pieces. Ransomware, everyone has a solution, that helps that piece of it. Maybe help understand where Acronis fits. Cyber security is a broad piece. There's no silver bullet to solve security we know, it is more of a practice and everyone needs to be involved with it. What announcements were made at the show? Help us understand where Acronis fits in the overall security landscape. >> Sure, so the biggest announcement at the show was the fact that our Acronis Cyber Cloud Solution has been expanded to include Acronis Cyber Protect. And this is a suite of cyber security solutions that essentially democratizes enterprise grade security, for the SNB and beyond. If we think about vulnerability assessments and patch management and other solutions that really are inaccessible to the SNB. Our manned service provider partners and resellers are now able to take what was once isolated point solutions, and bring that together and protect that data, where the data lives. >> That's great. My background is more in the enterprise, and we've talked about things that the enterprise can do now that before you needed to be a nation state. But when you talk about bringing these solutions down to the SNB, is this the enabler of cloud, help us understand a bit more why it's so critically important for us. >> It's a very different world right? Acronis was the first data protection solution to integrate ransomware protection. Acronis was also the first solution provider that brought block chain based security solutions that authenticates files. So our customers are able to demonstrate that that file is authentic and has not been manipulated. That's not something that is front and center with the Acronis solutions, but it demonstrates our desire to really protect that data from loss, theft and manipulation. >> Okay. You were talking earlier about data, we know data is one of the most important resources for companies today. And security now is a board level discussion, so Acronis is not new to the industry. Tell us why kind of now is so important in the Acronis's history? >> Sure, just last year for example, we blocked over 400,000 ransomware attempts across the millions and millions of devices that we're protecting. When you think about data, data lives in multiple occasions now. It's getting harder and harder for organizations to protect that data. Acronis specializes in protecting data at the edge. So this is outside of the corporate data center, where it's more and more important that that data is protected, and has the same policies and requirements met for protecting that data as the systems inside the corporate data center. >> All right, William we had a bunch of big announcements at the show. Give our audience a bit of a look forward. What should we be expecting to see from Acronis and your partners as we head towards 2020. >> Sure, so another one of the big announcements we made was Acronis cyber platform. And that's the opening of our API's and our SDK's. So now Acronis is opening the possibility for developers and ISV's and our service provider partners, to integrate additional solutions, to have data protection, cyber protection. So and example would be, any of the SaaS applications or ISV's that want to imbed native cyber protection, right into their solution. Another example would be a service provider that want's to automate more and more of their cyber protections operation solutions. Now developers can come and visit developer.acronis.com. They can register on the Acronis developer network and then they can get busy with integrating additional data sources for cyber protection and even add new data destinations for that storage, data destinations for the storage of cyber protection. >> Yes, so important. I'm just off of one of the large public cloud conferences there, and in the security space that was one of the discussions, how do I API's how do I share as the different ISV's data between them so that security will be more than just a bunch of point pieces that don't work together but have the industry as a whole are trying to protect companies and their data. >> It needs to be integrated and it needs to be native. And that's what were enabling at the Acronis cyber platform. >> Right William, give you the final word for Acronis and how people should be thinking about-- >> Sure, cyber protection is the future. A recent report by one of the big industry analysts firms demonstrated the power of bringing the back up team with the cyber security team, traditionally silo's, together. Because at the end of the day, everyone's doing the same thing, and that's protecting the data. >> All right. Well William Toll, thank you so much. We know how critically important data is and everything around protecting that cyber security of course. Helping to pull everything together. As always I'm Stu Miniman, and thank you for watching theCUBE.

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering UIPath FORWARD America's 2019. Brought to you by UIPath. >> Welcome back, everyone, to theCUBE's live coverage of UIPath FORWARD, here in Sin City, Las Vegas Nevada. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, co-hosting alongside Dave Velante. We have two guests for this segment. We have Kurt Carlson, Associate Dean for faculty and academic affairs of the Mason School of Business at the college of William and Mary. Thanks for coming on the show. >> Thanks you for having me. >> Rebecca: And we have Tom Clancy, the SVP of learning at UIPath, thank you so much. >> Great to be here. >> You're a Cube alum, so thank you for coming back. >> I've been here a few times. >> A Cube veteran, I should say. >> I think 10 years or so >> So we're talking today about a robot for every student, this was just announced in August, William and Mary is the first university in the US to provide automation software to every undergraduate student, thanks to a four million dollar investment from UIPath. Tell us a little bit about this program, Kurt, how it works and what you're trying to do here. >> Yeah, so first of all, to Tom and the people at UIPath for making this happen. This is a bold and incredible initiative, one that, frankly, when we had it initially, we thought that maybe we could get a robot for every student, we weren't sure that other people would be willing to go along with that, but UIPath was, they see the vision, and so it was really a meeting of the minds on a common purpose. The idea was pretty simple, this technology is transforming the world in a way that students, we think it's going to transform the way that students actually are students. But it's certainly transforming the world that our students are going into. And so, we want to give them exposure to it. We wanted to try and be the first business school on the planet that actually prepares students not just for the way RPA's being used today, but the way that it's going to be used when AI starts to take hold, when it becomes the gateway to AI three, four, five years down the road. So, we talked to UIPath, they thought it was a really good idea, we went all in on it. Yeah, all of our starting juniors in the business school have robots right now, they've all been trained through the academy live session putting together a course, it's very exciting. >> So, Tom, you've always been an innovator when it comes to learning, here's my question. How come we didn't learn this school stuff when we were in college? We learned Fortran. >> I don't know, I only learned BASIC, so I can't speak to that. >> So you know last year we talked about how you're scaling, learning some of the open, sort of philosophy that you have. So, give us the update on how you're pushing learning FORWARD, and why the College of William and Mary. >> Okay, so if you buy into a bot for every worker, or a bot for every desktop, that's a lot of bots, that's a lot of desktops, right? There's studies out there from the research companies that say that there's somewhere a hundred and 200 million people that need to be educated on RPA, RPA/AI. So if you buy into that, which we do, then traditional learning isn't going to do it. We're going to miss the boat. So we have a multi-pronged approach. The first thing is to democratize RPA learning. Two and a half years ago we made, we created RPA Academy, UIPath academy, and 100% free. After two and a half years, we have 451,000 people go through the academy courses, that's huge. But we think there's a lot more. Over the next next three years we think we'll train at least two million people. But the challenge still is, if we train five million people, there's still a hundred million that need to know about it. So, the second biggest thing we're doing is, we went out, last year at this event, we announced our academic alliance program. We had one university, now we're approaching 400 universities. But what we're doing with William and Mary is a lot more than just providing a course, and I'll let Kurt talk to that, but there is so much more that we could be doing to educate our students, our youth, upscaling, rescaling the existing workforce. When you break down that hundred million people, they come from a lot of different backgrounds, and we're trying to touch as many people as we can. >> You guys are really out ahead of the curve. Oftentimes, I mean, you saw this a little bit with data science, saw some colleges leaning in. So what lead you guys to the decision to actually invest and prioritize RPA? >> Yeah, I think what we're trying to accomplish requires incredibly smart students. It requires students that can sit at the interface between what we would think of today as sort of an RPA developer and a decision maker who would be stroking the check or signing the contract. There's got to be somebody that sits in that space that understands enough about how you would actually execute this implementation. What's the right buildout of that, how we're going to build a portfolio of bots, how we're going to prioritize the different processes that we might automate, How we're going to balance some processes that might have a nice ROI but be harder for the individual who's process is being automated to absorb against processes that the individual would love to have automated, but might not have as great of an ROI. How do you balance that whole set of things? So what we've done is worked with UIPath to bring together the ideas of automation with the ideas of being a strategic thinker in process automation, and we're designing a course in collaboration to help train our students to hit the ground running. >> Rebecca, it's really visionary, isn't it? I mean it's not just about using the tooling, it's about how to apply the tooling to create competitive advantage or change lives. >> I used to cover business education for the Financial Times, so I completely agree that this really is a game changer for the students to have this kind of access to technology and ability to explore this leading edge of software robotics and really be, and graduate from college. This isn't even graduate school, they're graduating from college already having these skills. So tell me, Kurt, what are they doing? What is the course, what does it look like, how are they using this in the classroom? >> The course is called a one credit. It's 14 hours but it actually turns into about 42 when you add this stuff that's going on outside of class. They're learning about these large conceptual issues around how do you prioritize which processes, what's the process you should go through to make sure that you measure in advance of implementation so that you can do an audit on the backend to have proof points on the effectiveness, so you got to measure in advance, creating a portfolio of perspective processes and then scoring them, how do you do that, so they're learning all that sort of conceptual straight business slash strategy implementation stuff, so that's on the first half, and to keep them engaged with this software, we're giving them small skills, we're calling them skillets. Small skills in every one of those sessions that add up to having a fully automated and programmed robot. Then they're going to go into a series of days where every one of those days they're going to learn a big skill. And the big skills are ones that are going to be useful for the students in their lives as people, useful in lives as students, and useful in their lives as entrepreneurs using RPA to create new ventures, or in the organizations they go to. We've worked with UIPath and with our alums who've implement this, folks at EY, Booz. In fact, we went up to DC, we had a three hour meeting with these folks. So what are the skills students need to learn, and they told us, and so we build these three big classes, each around each one of those skills so that our students are going to come out with the ability to be business translators, not necessarily the hardcore programmers. We're not going to prevent them from doing that, but to be these business translators that sit between the programming and the decision makers. >> That's huge because, you know, like, my son's a senior in college. He and his friends, they all either want to work for Amazon, Google, an investment bank, or one of the big SIs, right? So this is a perfect role for a consultant to go in and advise. Tom, I wanted to ask you, and you and I have known each other for a long time, but one of the reasons I think you were successful at your previous company is because you weren't just focused on a narrow vendor, how to make metrics work, for instance. I presume you're taking the same philosophy here. It transcends UIPath and is really more about, you know, the category if you will, the potential. Can you talk about that? >> So we listen to our customers and now we listen to the universities too, and they're going to help guide us to where we need to go. Most companies in tech, you work with marketing, and you work with engineering, and you build product courses. And you also try to sell those courses, because it's a really good PNL when you sell training. We don't think that's right for the industry, for UIPath, or for our customers, or our partners. So when we democratize learning, everything else falls into place. So, as we go forward, we have a bunch of ideas. You know, as we get more into AI, you'll see more AI type courses. We'll team with 400 universities now, by end of next year, we'll probably have a thousand universities signed up. And so, there's a lot of subject matter expertise, and if they come to us with ideas, you mentioned a 14 hour course, we have a four hour course, and we also have a 60 hour course. So we want to be as flexible as possible, because different universities want to apply it in different ways. So we also heard about Lean Six Sigma. I mean, sorry, Lean RPA, so we might build a course on Lean RPA, because that's really important. Solution architect is one of the biggest gaps in the industry right now so, so we look to where these gaps are, we listen to everybody, and then we just execute. >> Well, it's interesting you said Six Sigma, we have Jean Younger coming on, she's a Six Sigma expert. I don't know if she's a black belt, but she's pretty sure. She talks about how to apply RPA to make business processes in Six Sigma, but you would never spend the time and money, I mean, if it's an airplane engine, for sure, but now, so that's kind of transformative. Kurt, I'm curious as to how you, as a college, market this. You know, you're very competitive industry, if you will. So how do you see this attracting students and separating you guys from the pack? >> Well, it's a two separate things. How do we actively try to take advantage of this, and what effects is it having already? Enrollments to the business school, well. Students at William and Mary get admitted to William and Mary, and they're fantastic, amazingly good undergraduate students. The best students at William and Mary come to the Raymond A. Mason school of business. If you take our undergraduate GPA of students in the business school, they're top five in the country. So what we've seen since we've announced this is that our applications to the business school are up. I don't know that it's a one to one correlation. >> Tom: I think it is. >> I believe it's a strong predictor, right? And part because it's such an easy sell. And so, when we talk to those alums and friends in DC and said, tell us why this is, why our students should do this, they said, well, if for no other reason, we are hiring students that have these skills into data science lines in the mid 90s. When I said that to my students, they fell out of their chairs. So there's incredible opportunity here for them, that's the easy way to market it internally, it aligns with things that are happening at William and Mary, trying to be innovative, nimble, and entrepreneurial. We've been talking about being innovative, nimble, and entrepreneurial for longer than we've been doing it, we believe we're getting there, we believe this is the type of activity that would fit for that. As far as promoting it, we're telling everybody that will listen that this is interesting, and people are listening. You know, the standard sort of marketing strategy that goes around, and we are coordinating with UIPath on that. But internally, this sells actually pretty easy. This is something people are looking for, we're going to make it ready for the world the way that it's going to be now and in the future. >> Well, I imagine the big consultants are hovering as well. You know, you mentioned DC, Booz Allen, Hughes and DC, and Excensior, EY, Deloitte, PWC, IBM itself. I mean it's just, they all want the best and the brightest, and now you're going to have this skill set that is a sweet spot for their businesses. >> Kurt: That's the plan. >> I'm just thinking back to remembering who these people are, these are 19 and 20 year olds. They've never experienced the dreariness of work and the drudge tasks that we all know well. So, what are you, in terms of this whole business translator idea, that they're going to be the be people that sit in the middle and can sort of be these people who can speak both languages. What kind of skills are you trying to impart to them, because it is a whole different skill set. >> Our vision is that in two or three years, the nodes and the processes that are currently... That currently make implementing RPA complex and require significant programmer skills, these places where, right now, there's a human making a relatively mundane decision, but it's sill a model. There's a decision node there. We think AI is going to take over that. The simple, AI's going to simply put models into those decision nodes. We also think a lot of the programming that takes place, you're seeing it now with studio X, a lot of the programming is going to go away. And what that's going to do is it's going to elevate the business process from the mundane to the more human intelligent, what would currently be considered human intelligence process. When we get into that space, people skills are going to be really important, prioritizing is going to be really important, identifying organizations that are ripe for this, at this moment in time, which processes to automate. Those are the kind of skills we're trying to get students to develop, and what we're selling it partly as, this is going to make you ready of the world the way we think it's going to be, a bit of a guess. But we're also saying if you don't want to automate mundane processes, then come with us on a different magic carpet ride. And that magic carpet ride is, imagine all the processes that don't exist right now because nobody would ever conceive of them because they couldn't possibly be sustained, or they would be too mundane. Now think about those processes through a business lens, so take a business student and think about all the potential when you look at it that way. So this course that we're building has that, everything in the course is wrapped in that, and so, at the end of the course, they're going to be doing a project, and the project is to bring a new process to the world that doesn't currently exist. Don't program it, don't worry about whether or not you have a team that could actually execute it. Just conceive of a process that doesn't currently exist and let's imagine, with the potential of RPA, how we would make that happen. That's going to be, we think we're going to be able to bring a lot of students along through that innovative lens even though they are 19 and 20, because 19 and 20 year olds love innovation, while they've never submitted a procurement report. >> Exactly! >> A innovation presentation. >> We'll need to do a Cube follow up with that. >> What Kurt just said, is the reason why, Tom, I think this market is being way undercounted. I think it's hard for the IDCs and the forces, because they look back they say how big was it last year, how fast are these companies growing, but, to your point, there's so much unknown processes that could be attacked. The TAM on this could be enormous. >> We agree. >> Yeah, I know you do, but I think that it's a point worth mentioning because it touches so many different parts of every organization that I think people perhaps don't realize the impact that it could have. >> You know, when listening to you, Kurt, when you look at these young kids, at least compared to me, all the coding and setting up a robot, that's the easy part, they'll pick that up right away. It's really the thought process that goes into identifying new opportunities, and that's, I think, you're challenging them to do that. But learning how to do robots, I think, is going to be pretty easy for this new digital generation. >> Piece of cake. Tom and Kurt, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE with a really fascinating conversation. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, you guys >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for Dave Velante, stay tuned for more of theCUBEs live coverage of UIPath FORWARD. (upbeat music)

>>from Miami Beach, Florida It's the key. You covering a Cronus Global Cyber Summit 2019. Brought to you by a Cronus. >>Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Cube coverage here in Miami Beach Front and Blue Hotel with Cronus Global Cyber Summit 2019 2 days of coverage. Where here, Getting all the action. What's going on in cyber tools and platforms are developing a new model of cybersecurity. Cronus Leader, Fast growing, rapidly growing back in here in the United States and globally. We're here. William Toll, head of product marketing Cronus. Thanks for coming. I appreciate it. >>Thanks, John. I'm excited. You're >>here so way were briefed on kind of the news. But you guys had more news here. First great key notes on then special guest Shark tank on as well. That's a great, great event. But you had some news slip by me. You guys were holding it back. >>So we've opened our A p I, and that's enabling a whole ecosystem to build on top of our cyber protection solutions. >>You guys have a platform infrastructure platform and sweet asserts from backup all the way through protection. All that good stuff as well. Partners. That's not a channel action platforms are the MoD has been rapidly growing. That's 19 plus years. >>And now, with the opening of our AP, eyes were opening the possibility for even Maur innovation from third parties from Eyes V's from managed service providers from developers that want to build on our platform and deliver their solutions to our ecosystem. >>You guys were very technical company and very impressed with people. Actually, cyber, you gotta have the chops, you can't fake it. Cyber. You guys do a great job, have a track record, get the P I. C B Also sdk variety, different layers. So the FBI is gonna bring out more goodness for developers. You guys, I heard a rumor. Is it true that you guys were launching a developer network? >>That's right. So the Cronus developer network actually launches today here in the show, and we're inviting developed officials. That's official. Okay. And they can go to developers that Cronus dot com and when they go in there, they will find a whole platform where they can gain access to forums, documentation and logs, and all of our software development kids as well as a sandbox, so developers can get access to the platform. Start developing within minutes. >>So what's the attraction for Iess fees and developers? I mean, you guys are here again. Technical. What is your pitch developers? Why would they be attracted to your AP eyes? And developer Resource is >>sure it's simple. Our ecosystem way have over 50,000 I t channel partners and they're active in small businesses. Over 500,000 business customers and five million and customers all benefit from solutions that they bring to our cyber cloud solutions >>portal. What type of solutions are available in the platform today? >>So their solutions that integrate P s a tools professional service is automation are mm tools tools for managing cloud tools for managing SAS applications. For example, one of our partners manages office 3 65 accounts. And if you put yourselves in the shoes of a system administrator who's managing multiple SAS applications now, they can all be managed in the Cronus platform. Leverage our user experience. You I s t k and have a seamless experience for that administrator to manage everything to have the same group policies across all of this >>depression. That success with these channel a channel on Channel General, but I s freeze and managed service ROMs. Peace. What's the dynamic between Iess, freeze and peace? You unpack that? >>Sure. So a lot of m s peace depend on certain solutions. One of our partners is Connectwise Connectwise here they're exhibiting one sponsors at at this show and their leader in providing managed to lose management solutions for M s. He's to manage all of their customers, right? And then all the end points. >>So if I participate in the developer network, is that where I get my the FBI's someone get the access to these AP eyes? >>So you visits developer data cronies dot com. You come in, you gain access to all the AP eyes. Documentation way Have libraries that'll be supporting six languages, including C sharp Python, java. Come in, gain access to those documentation and start building. There's a sandbox where they could test their code. There's SD K's. There's examples that are pre built and documentation and guides on how to use those s >>So customer the end. You're in customers or your channel customers customer. Do they get the benefits of the highest stuff in there? So in other words, that was the developer network have a marketplace where speed push their their solutions in there. >>Also launching. Today we have the Cronus Cyber Cloud Solutions portal and inside there there's already 30 integrations that we worked over the years to build using that same set of AP eyes and SD case. >>Okay, so just get this hard news straight. Opening up the AP eyes. That's right. Cronus Developer Network launched today and Cloud Solutions Portal. >>That's right, Cyber Cloud Solutions Portal Inside there there's documentation on all the different solutions that are available today. >>What's been the feedback so far? Those >>It's been great. You know, if we think about all the solutions that we've already integrated, we have hundreds of manage service providers using just one solution that we've already integrated. >>William, we're talking before we came on camera about the old days in this business for a long time just a cube. We've been documenting the i t transformation with clouds in 10 years. I've been in this in 30 years. Ways have come and gone and we talked to see cells all the time now and number one constant pattern that emerges is they don't want another tour. They want a solid date looking for Jules. Don't get me wrong, the exact work fit. But they're looking for a cohesive platform, one that's horizontally scaled that enables them to either take advantage of a suite of service. Is boy a few? That's right. This is a trend. Do you agree with that? What you're saying? I totally agree >>with that, right? It makes it much easier to deal with provisioning, user management and billing, right? Think about a man of service provider and all of their customers. They need that one tool makes their lives so much easier. >>And, of course, on event would not be the same. We didn't have some sort of machine learning involved. How much his machine learning been focused for you guys and what's been some of the the innovations that come from from the machine. I mean, you guys have done >>artificial intelligence is critical today, right? It's, uh, how we're able to offer some really top rated ransomware protection anti malware protection. We could not do that without artificial intelligence. >>Final question for you. What's the top story shows week If you have to kind of boil it down high order bit for the folks that couldn't make it. Watching the show. What's the top story they should pay attention to? >>Top story is that Cronus is leading the effort in cyber protection. And it's a revolution, right? We're taking data protection with cyber security to create cyber protection. Bring that all together. Really? Democratize is a lot of enterprise. I t. And makes it accessible to a wider market. >>You know, we've always said on the Q. Go back and look at the tapes. It's a date. A problem that's right. Needed protection. Cyber protection. Working him, >>Cronus. Everything we do is about data. We protect data from loss. We protect data from theft and we protect data from manipulation. It's so critical >>how many customers you guys have you? I saw some stats out there. Founded in 2003 in Singapore. Second headquarters Whistle in 2000 a global company, 1400 employees of 32 offices. Nice nice origination story. They're not a Johnny come lately has been around for a while. What's the number? >>So five million? Any customers? 500,000 business customers. 50,000 channel partners. >>Congratulations. Thanks. Thanks for having us here in Miami Beach. Thanks. Not a bad venue. As I said on Twitter just a minute ago place. Thanks for Thanks. All right, John. Just a cube coverage here. Miami Beach at the front in Blue Hotel for the Cyber Global Cyber Security Summit here with Cronus on John Kerry back with more coverage after this short break.

>> Announcer: Live from Seattle Washington, it's the Cube covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon, North America, 2018. Brought to you by Redhat, the CloudNative Computing Foundation, and it's ecosystem's partners. (techno music) >> Okay welcome back everyone. We are live in Seattle for KubeCon and CloudNativeCon 2018, Cube's live coverage three days. Day one of a full house event here, through 8,000 people, doubled from last year, I'm John Furrier for Stu Miniman. Our next two guests are from Red Hat. Great to have these guys as our guests, as also thank Red Hat for being great sponsors. Brian "Redbeard" Harrington, Cube Alumni Back Product Manager of Service Mesh at Red Hat, and William Oliveria, Product Manager Serverless at Red Hat, we'll hear a lot about that. You guys, first of all, thanks for coming on, and thanks to your company Red Hat, for being a great supporter of the Cube and the community, the contribution you guys have helped up make, we really appreciate that. Thank you. >> Absolutely delighted to be here. >> Happy to be here. >> John Furrier: Alright, so let's get into it. So service meshes are hot because now Kubernetes is kind of like, we're seeing that is totally stabilized, and now you start to see the engineering, and the value creation happening in layers. Shim layers they call here, I got state-full applications. So you're starting to see service meshes conceptually adopt. Give us a quick update on where that is, how real is it, what's the progress, and what's some of the state-of-the-art activities around it? >> [Brian "Redbeard" Harrington] Well the beautiful thing is, using a service mesh is not anything new at all. I mean, that was really built to top the Netflix OSS ideas. They've been around for seven, eight years now. It's really just kind of decomposing what were a bunch of individual libraries that you had to implement into more infrastructure services, so that you know that you just, regardless of the language, environment, etc., you've always got a certain base platform ready to go. >> John Furrier: Is Service Mesh going to be a standard thing? Is it going to be, service meshes of your flavor, is there going to be certain instances custom services? How do you see that coming out with CSDO, Knative? There's things evolving. >> [Brian "Redbeard" Harrington] Mmhm, yeah. >> What's the state there, is that going to be the new normal, or is it going to see settling? What's your view on that? >> [Brian "Redbeard" Harrington] I think to some extent, it depends on the scale that you're at. If you are at the scale of Yelp or Stripe, one of those, and using Envoy, you already have a good idea of what that mesh is going to look like, so you're building that control plain, in the way that you need it. Where Istio and Linker D and some of the other ones come in, is when you are a smaller scale and you need to figure out what you're control plane is going to look like, that's where it really shines, because it gives you something that you can just start using and has some training wheels on it to make sure that you've got a stable platform to use from day one. >> Stu Miniman: So one of the other news items today I wanted to get your opinion on is, EtsyD has been handed over to Linux Foundation and CNCF, so EtsyD came out of CoreOS of course, which was acquired by Red Hat. Give us a little bit of the update as to why that happened and why it's a good thing for the community. >> So I think for any stable platform, it's really been the theme of what I've been talking about, you've got to know that it's safe to use the software, that there's going to be a longer term vision, and a lot of community guidance around that, and that's why Red Hat made the contribution. When we were at CoreOS, we really wanted to, and it was something that was ultimately a goal, but it kind of became a little bit of a race condition. Do we go ahead and contribute it, and then hope that other folks will join us in building it? Just by open sourcing it, we saw some contributions from IBM around PowerPC architecture and Maso's, and other groups coming in, but putting it just full-bore in the CNCF really guarantees that there will be ongoing community collaboration. >> John Furrier: Just to give a shout out to you guys at CoreOS, you guys did an amazing job, and I think this is a benefit of the Red Hat relationship, because that's the start up dilemma you have, do we get it in there, how do we support it, how do we make it better, is it competitive, was our focus what we optimized it for? But now with the Red Hat piece you guys should lean back, and do the right thing and get it in there with the right resource push, is that kind of how it's evolving, because that seems like what's-- >> It absolutely is. This goes beyond just EtsyD. The really rad thing is that I think it's safe to say that there is no part of the CoreOS portfolio that really isn't getting open sourced. You can kind of read into that what you will but, it meant that there was no technology that was getting left behind, nad that our users who really felt passionately about pieces of software, again, we're going to be able to have that utility. >> Stu Miniman: I think it goes back, we've been at Red Hat summits for many years and Red Hat is a hundred percent open sourced, it must be, and even I go back to Polvey and yourself and Brandon, all of the tools at CoreOS were creating is, they were all going to be open sourced tools that you will be involved in. I guess William, a good point to bring you into the conversation, Serverless, and fully open source, if not been have you thought about it at least for the last couple of years so, before we get into the Knative, give us the Red Hat positioning, where does Serverless fit into the architecture? And then we'd love to tease out all of the Knative discussion. >> Absolutely. For us, Serverless then is a lot about the user experience, and how we can simplify how developers can leverage technology such as Itsiu and service meshes and everything around the developer experience on top of Kuberneties. Serverless can deliver that and a lot of what we believe is that, it should not be then tied too much to functions because we can do that for functions, but we can do that for any class of applications actually running on top of the platform, and that's a lot of why we believe that Knative is this powerful interesting project going on out there right now. We already have all these different players collaborating, which is fantastic for inter-oper ability, we make sure that we can leverage that implementation on different platforms, we can run that anywhere pretty much on top of Kuberneties, and that's a big goal, to make sure that you can plug all these different parts as part of a consistent user experience there. >> Stu Miniman: Okay so we had the cube at the Google event this summer when it was announced I was at Serverless conference this year and to be honest, a lot of people were kind of scratching their heads trying to understand. Okay, Serverless and Kuberneties are going together but I'm not sure I quite get it? Give us the update where are we, when does this get baked into platforms, what can I do today, where do I learn more? >> Today, what we are offering is the three big modules as part of Knative are built, events, and serving. So it's the basic capabilities for you to build a serverless platform that, can again, work on any kind of application, not only functions, and we are at that stage. The project is very new, we are still in 0.2 release, at this point, so there's a lot of missing parts around user experience and what-not, but we are getting there, and that's where most of the focus is going on right now. But with something like events, that's a perfect opportunity for example, to integrate with all the different services we have available, let's say on Service Catalog, or through the operator's framework, for example, to connect to the applications that you are building on top of Kuberneties. That was part of the things that was missing to connect the dots when your implementing those applications, how are you going to consume events, how are you going to consume services, how those applications are going to scale? That's a lot of what we're addressing with Knative right now. >> What's the big walk away around the current event here at KubeCon? We hear maturity, great, check. A lot of people are fine in their swim lanes or whatever, their value layer, check. Clear a lot more gaps things white space start to appear, when that visibility lifts. What do you guys see the opportunities for the community, and you guys, certainly one of the big players, Red Hat, leading the way, as this ecosystem is, I mean companies I've never heard of, coming out of the woodwork. This is vibrant! There are opportunities for people to kind of, play in these white spaces. Do you guys have any thoughts on where you could give guidance to where people could jump in and create value? >> Well, there's two areas that are really fascinating to me. One is the fact that now that Kuberneties has gotten to the level of boarding infrastructure, it means that there are a lot more companies that are really comfortable saying, "we're building a top that, we don't care about what the compute layer is, because we just know". So you see a lot of organizations that are coming in, because they want to collaborate with other organizations, and see how they're using it to cross pollinate and get new ideas. That's why you've got full retail companies like Nordstrom here, that are the local band in town, and they're happy to come and show off, and you've also got a lot of, to the second piece of that, emerging companies that are finding areas, white space that we didn't consider as the incumbance in the space, and they're providing direct value. I think that as we have seen a lot more acquisitions coming through the space, there is going to be a lot of opportunity for the organization that has that five, ten, fifty million dollar idea to come in, build it quickly, know that it works on top of Kuberneties, and then be able to port it to Enterprise software that runs on a local cluster or across clouds. >> John Furrier: So new business model innovations are coming out of it as well., hence opportunities. It's okay to have a fifty million dollar business. >> Yes. >> Not bad, and could be acquired as well, some other value there. Okay, Microservice is hard to manage. Guys, talk about this dynamic. This is one of the things you guys really work hard to address, I know. We hear a lot about it. Porting to Microservice, "Hey, I'm in Enterprise! We should move from our Red Hat Linux implementation, to full cloud, and then it's going to go all the way to Microservices." Well, what the hell is Microservices? So again, this is kind of like, well I'm not saying that they're thinking that way, but this is not that easy. How do you guys make it easier? What are some of the speed bumps that customers hit? And what are the things to overcome those? What's your view on that? >> [William Oliveria] I'll talk about, first of all, how Knative is contributing to that. Again, the whole thing that we're talking about, not being tied to functions is because again, I want to leverage the serverless capabilities available in the platform for Microservices as well. And whenever you're talking about monitoring, tracing, observe-abilities, Istio comes into play, and solved that problem and connect all those different Microservices in a very nice way. With Knative, things we can improve on the user experience, so you can do that in a very easy way, when you are coming from this brown field applications when you are migrating to the cloud, when you are trying to port those applications, it's a big learning curve. You got to learn about all these different technologies. So if you can improve that user experience, so you can do what you do best, which is focus on your code, and then we can take care of a lot the complexities of building and wiring together all these different parts on the platform. We'll do that. And that's a lot of what we are doing with serverless. >> That's where the manage piece comes in, right? >> [William Oliveria] Right. >> And then the monitoring, that part of it to? >> Yeaa, well to build on top of that, there is the organizations that want to still design things the way that they've been doing it. And we've had a big focus with a project called Red Hat OpenShift Application Runtimes, or RHOAR, which it goes more in the direction of the past concept, which is a big difference between OpenShift and TechTonic, for example, and through that, a lot of the RHOAR bundles for Python and Java and Node.js kind of integrate in the concepts of distributed tracing and permethius monitoring and things like that, to make sure that you focus, again, to William's point, on building the thing that brings yuour business value and standing on the shoulders of software at the infrastructure level. >> That's great stuff and it's a lot more work to do. >> Yeah, just the last thing, I know Red Hat's been working on trying to, I don't know if you call it "templatize", but how do I make it easier for people to, I'm trying to remember the name of the term for it. >> Yeah, so it's the OpenShift Application Runtime. Having what used to be the gear in the old OpenShift realm. Which is just here is a great template, a package to start from, so that you can go in and implement the things that you care about, and really step then into, the "Okay, we know that the code's going to work okay, because we built that, we know the application platform is going to be predictable, we know that we have all of these additional hooks to manage it." So hopefully, it lowers the bar, to make it trivial to get started. >> That's awesome. Well, Redbeard and William, thanks for coming on the Cube, really appreciate it. Just quick plug, what's up next for you guys? What's on the horizon? What itch are you scratching these days? What's getting you motivated? >> The big things that's exciting for me is the fourth coming release of OpenShift 4.0, which gives me the room to shine on the GA release of all the service mesh stuff. And then, kind of in parallel, just a lot of the vector packet processing, FITO, high scale networking stuff just sends a tingle up my spine. I love keeping an eye on that >> For me we just announced a review of Knative and OpenShift as an add-on. You can just install and run that when you're on OpenShift, and like what Redbeard said, I'm looking forward for 4.0 as well, to make sure that I could plug that user experience on top of 4.0 and we are already doing a lot for the ops side, and I'd like to do that also now for our developers as well. >> Well when you're ready, we'll pop a digital cork on Twitter, let us know, we'll certainly cover it. Thanks for coming out, appreciate the insight. >> We'll bring you the insights and all the data here at KubeCon CloudNative. Of course we're the Cube, don't be confused with KubeCon, on one of our conferences coming. But only kidding, we're not going to have that. Thanks for watching day one, live coverage. Stay with us for more coverage after this short break. (techno music)