>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCube. With digital coverage of AWS re:Invent 2020. Special coverage sponsored by AWS worldwide public sector. >> Hello and welcome to theCube virtual, and our coverage of AWS re:Invent 2020 with special coverage of public sector. We are theCube virtual and I'm your host, Justin Warren, and today I'm joined by two people. We have Jim Richberg the CISO for Public Sector from Fortinet who comes to us from Washington DC. Jim, welcome. >> Thank you. Thank you, Justin. >> And we also have Kenny Holmes. Who's the head of worldwide Public Sector Go-to-market from Fortinet as well. And he comes to us from Chicago in Illinois. Kenny, thanks. >> Yes, thank you. Thank you, Justin. >> Gentlemen, welcome to theCube. Now this year has been pretty dramatic and for a lot of us as I'm sure you're very well aware and it's been a bit of an accelerator for people's interest in public cloud in particular for the public sector. So what have you seen, Kenny? Sorry, Jim, we'll start with you around the federal government's interest in cloud. What have you noticed in their adoption of public cloud and AWS in this year? >> So, we used to joke in the federal government in my 34 years, they'll never let a good crisis go to waste. That you can make an upside out of any situation. And as you noted, Justin this has been a dramatic accelerator to federal government's adoption of cloud. Three quarters of the agencies were already moving in the direction of the cloud and planning to spend roughly $8 billion on it this year. And that was pre COVID. And the pace certainly picked up. We had the guidance that came out of DHS, the interim guidance that facilitated abilities to let these now as of mid-March remote teleworkers connect directly to the cloud without having to connect back through their agency infrastructure. So they issued very quick guidance to say, look you got to get the job done. You got to get it done in the cloud. So they did that as a way to accelerate it in the short term. And then they put out the guidance later this year for a trusted internet connection access which had a use case that was built around again facilitating the ability to say you can connect directly to the cloud with security in that direct line stack. You no longer have to haul your data back to the enterprise edge, to the data center on-premise to then go straight out to the cloud. So the federal government said we will give you the ability to move in the direction of cloud and the agencies have been using this at scale. And that's why roughly half of the federal workforce is now working from home. And many of them are using cloud-based applications and services. So the dramatic impact on the federal government. >> Yeah, we've seen it here in Nate in my home of Australia. The federal government is very keen on that but there's other levels of government as I'm sure we're all aware. Particularly as state and even local governments. So Kenny, maybe you could give us a bit of a flavor for how does local and that more regional government have they been doing it basically the same as federal government or is there something unique to the way that they've had to adapt? >> Well, state and local governments are certainly facing the really the perfect storm of the rising demand and declining resources. The pandemic has certainly driven, a lower tax base and lower revenues. And as a result of that, we've seen adjustments in budgets, et cetera but we're also in a position uniquely where it's also driving digital innovation at the same time. So we're seeing the two of those and they don't necessarily have kind of diabolically opposed if you think about it. So, the two of those are coming together but so they're doing more with less and they're using digital transformation to get there where in the commercial world a lot of folks who've been doing digital transformation for a long time. Now, government is being more forced into doing it. And they're really embracing that from our perspective. So we've seen traditionally security be at the top of their demands from a CIO perspective and their most important initiatives. The now we're seeing digital transformation and more specifically we're seeing cloud, right be a key part of that. So, they've done things initially, obviously moving email and some of those things but today we're seeing an increasing amount of workloads that we're seeing them, move from maybe a previous provider, over to AWS et cetera. So, those are some of the things that we're seeing from our state and local perspective >> To build on Kenny's point. I think the key differentiator Justin, between the federal and the state and local experience has been the resources, the federal government with COVID. The federal government runs a deficit. We've seen the deficit balloon, federal spending is up 17 to 20%, not what it's passed out of the stimulus money but simply what government is spending at the federal level. So we are using cloud at the federal level to do more as Kenny noted, state governments and local governments because they're funded exclusively by taxes they can't run a deficit. They have had to say we need to spend smarter because we can't spend more. We can't even spend as much and oh my goodness we have to deliver more digital services at the same time. So for them it has been a matter of having to eke greater efficiencies out of every dollar which has pointed them in the direction of AWS and the cloud in a different sense. And the federal government that said there's greater efficiencies because we need our remote telework people to get the job done, state government, it's the perfect storm. And if they don't do this they're literally going to have to curtail vital services. >> Yeah and as we've seen the security challenge pretty much is the same everywhere. I mean, there's some variations in exactly one sort of threat you might have as a federal government compared to local but broadly speaking, the malware and ransomware and things of that nature is pretty much just a miasma that we have to wade through. So what does, Fortinet helping with these customers, particularly as they move to as you mentioned, they're moving a lot of things into AWS. So what is Fortinet's role there in helping customers make better use of public cloud? >> So I think one of the things that Fortinet really has brought to this equation is they really are a very broad based cybersecurity provider. The biggest problem that organizations typically have, of course, you know in the cloud, it's misconfiguration by the customer. It's not AWS that's making the mistake 99% plus of the time it's misconfiguration by the customer. So having the ability to say if you know how to do your security in an on-premise environment, and you've got controls, capabilities and settings that you're comfortable with you can migrate those intact if they work for you into your cloud environment. So the fact that we are soup to nuts, that we have things at the edge and offer that same suite of capabilities in AWS allows us to be able to tell, help the users if they've configured it right, not have to go back and start from scratch and say, well, now that I'm in AWS I need to reconfigure other than as you have to do it because it's a different platform, but if you've got the policies in place that are managing security managing risk well for your enterprise carry them forward to a different environment. >> I think Kenny is that a particular opportunity there for local government? As you mentioned that restrained resources means that it's much more difficult for them to correctly configure their environments but also to make this level of change, they have a lot of other responsibilities it's difficult to become cybersecurity experts. Is that where you see Fortinet helping a great deal in more local government. >> Yes it is one of the key areas. The best way you can think of it is the ability to do what Jim was saying in a single pane of glass. And the fact that we can do that. That's something you don't hear a lot about anymore, but Fortinet actually is one of the largest security providers in the world. Has it single pane of glass across, being able to manage your on-prem infrastructure being able to manage whether if someone's migrating away from another cloud over to AWS and being able to look at these holistically it's just a fantastic way for them to be efficient as well as around training and certifications and helping our customers to be able to take advantage of the products without additional costs or other things that I've been throwing down the gauntlet for other providers to say, hey, security shouldn't be something else that they have to invest. They're going to invest in your technology. You should provide them with the training, provide them with security awareness, sobriety with certifications around your product that should be table stakes. >> And we do see a lot of that structure of how to do this and provide that training tends to be the same regardless of where you are. Is that something that we see say to getting defined at federal government level with some of the standards and then that then sort of trickles down into more local government. Kenny, is that something that you see happening at all? Or are we seeing things defined at local government that are actually going back the other way? >> Yeah, well, compliance runs across both. I mean, there's probably more compliance on the federal side that Jim could speak to but there's certainly compliance is always a major factor. And it can't be that just we need to do one-off solutions for a particular compliance issue. It needs to be holistic as we're talking about it. If I have to pick solutions based on what and where they're protecting. And now I have to think about the compliance for those as well. That's yet another thing to think about, I don't see our customers thinking that way. They don't have the skillsets to continue to evolve that way. That's an expanded, use of what they're doing and they just don't have those resources. So they have to be able to do more with less we've talking about, and to be able to take a platform like the fabric that Fortinet it offers it really offers that to them. >> At the federal level I'm not even sure that I would characterize it as compliance and regulatory things that state local government have to do, but the National Institute of Standards and Technology NIST tends to promulgate what are considered best practices. Then your cybersecurity framework has basically been adopted globally modified by certain places. And I did too in different ways, but when NIST comes up with something like zero trust architecture, new standards are understood, the 800 Series. I'm surprised people in local government where we'll talk about 800-53 or 800-207, just like we fed geeks too. So it's really setting best practices and standards that are different from compliance but to build on Kenny's point about resources where I think Kenny has flown the other way from local government up has been in the direction of saying state and local government had been the Canary in the coal mine on saying, you have to migrate to the cloud as a way of doing more with less. So the federal government has been turning the printing press, turning the crank faster and faster that will change, and this is one where can say you're spending smarter by moving in the direction of AWS and in accelerating that growth into the cloud, because my prediction as a former intelligence analyst is probably this time next year, a lot of federal agencies will be having the discussion about how to live in a much tightened budgetary environment because we went through something called sequestration 10 years ago that made for very tight zero sum budgeting. That's going to be a coming attraction and that's going to push federal government even more, so with the saying, I got to get the data off of Graham. I've got to continue to telework, Hey, and look we can follow the best practices of state and local government in this case. >> Well, it certainly sounds like we'll be able to learn from each other and adapt it. It's not going away. We're certainly going to have cybersecurity issues for the foreseeable future, but it sounds like there's a lot of work happening and there is room for happiness about how things are generally going. So, gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us here and please thank you to my guest Jim Richberg and Kenny Holmes from Fortinet. You've been watching theCube virtual and our coverage of AWS re:Invent 2020 with special coverage of the public sector. Make sure you check out all the rest of our coverage on your desktop laptop or phone wherever you might be. I've been your host, Justin Warren. I look forward to seeing you again soon. (soft upbeat music)

>>live from Washington, D. C. It's the Cube covering Bumi World 19. >>Do you buy movie? >>Welcome to the Cube. I'm Lisa Martin at Bumi World 2019 in Washington, D. C. Been here all day. Had some great conversations. One of my favorite things about movie is how impactful they are making their customers. And I'm very pleased to welcome the CEO off American Cancer Society. Kenny Ocular Kenny, Welcome to the Cube. >>Thank you. Happy to be here. >>Really? Enjoyed your keynote this morning on stage with Chris McNab. You know, the American Cancer Society is one of those organizations. I think that that impacts every single person on this planet in some way or another. We've all been touched by cancer, and it's so it's so interesting to look at it as how is technology fueling the American Cancer Society? Your CEO talk to us a little bit about what you guys are doing with booming. How Bhumi is really helping you guys two integrate all these different systems so that an agency is old and historic as a C s is is really transforming to be a modern kind of cloud driven organization. >>Yeah, I think all organizations now are becoming I t organizations. It's their heart, and it's important for us to the American Cancer Society to interact with. Our constituents are volunteers. Our patients are staff right in a digital way. So it is critically important that we are right there with everybody else, uh, interacting with them. And so, whether they're on the go and doing it on their mobile phone or, you know, at the doctor's office talking with their doctor about treatment options that were there to help them get them what they need, an information for their best chance to beat the beat the disease. >>So talk to me first about the business transformation that the American Cancer Society winter before your time there. But first it was. We have all these different organizations different leadership, different I t infrastructure, different financial operations model. Talk to us about first powdered it transform from a business like process perspective and then start looking at digital transformation. >>So some of it happened at the same time the organization made the decision back in about 2012 to consolidate other organizations. We were we kind of run ran regionally at the time and each independent, different region. There were 13 different regions kind of ran independently with their own I T systems. There were some shared technologies that we had of the organization, starting in about 2012 decided that no, we wanted to centralize our model and come together. We thought it was a more efficient manner and allowed us, in essence, to doom or for our mission, which is the ultimate goal. So there was a lot of consolidation around people on organization. Some of the processes I will say, God, God consolidated. Some are still going through some of that transformation. So after we kind of keep brought the organization's together and some of the people together, we kind of looked at Where are we with our technology and how do we move forward into the 21st century and do that effectively? And so at the time, we did kind of an analysis of our current state. As I mentioned in the keynote, we had a lot of technologies >>that were just older, had kind of run their course for >>end of life or just become that, you know, over change over a decade of changes and just being a monstrous the e meth or systems. That way, we're really struggling to keep up right both in terms of change and enhancement and delivering those capabilities back to our constituents. So we decided that no, it's time for us to move to a new and technology modernization effort, and we really wanted to be on the cloud first strategy. So we were looking at our cloud vendors and everything else. And one of the big selections was, as we chose Salesforce's R C R M platform we chose. Net Suite is our financially rp platform that we we could consolidate all those. And then as a part of that, we were looking at all of the leftover processes that weren't standardized, that we were still doing differently, that we could simplify. So taking stuff from 21 steps down to six steps if we could, you know, et cetera, and bringing that along with the transformation just to create more efficiencies for us and then, at the end of the day, driving a better end user experience with your volunteer, your staff, your patient, et cetera, >>it's a tremendous amount of data just in a serum like cells fours and Oracle Net Sweet. What was the thought and the opportunity to actually put an integration platform to enable that data to be shared between the applications and enabled whether it's providers or as you said volunteers, and we'll talk about that? And second, to be ableto have an experience that allows them to get whatever is that they're looking for. Talk to us about integration and sort of that driving kind of hub centralized hub aspect. >>Yeah. I mean, with any business data is key. And historically, we had our data was was >>spread out across multiple systems but then didn't always sync up. So you'd have you know you'd pull a report out of one system and say something different than when you looked at another system. So one of the key foundational tenets with the transformation was is we wanted our data to be in sync. We >>wanted to be able to see the same things no matter where you were looking. At that way, we we were all looking at the same information and basically a single source of truth. Yes, and boom. He was a critical component of that, right? With their integration platform, they were going to be our integration hub that is going >>to keep everything in sync. So we knew we had over, Um well, we had 100 and 20 applications that ultimately were a part of it. There were probably 20 major ones that had most of our data in there. And then boom. He is integrating all of those. So when information's coming across, whether it's coming in from, ah, donation made or an event participants or a patient referral form, all of that data comes in, comes in through Bumi, and it's propagated, orchestrated across the systems as it needs to be to make sure that it has all of the right information in it, that the data is as clean as we can make it, and it's all in sync. At the end of the day, >>that's critical. Having the data is great, but if you actually can't utilize an extract values from that, it's I don't want a worthless, but it's clearly the value, and they're you know, >>it's a lot harder to make good business decisions without good data, >>right? And when we're talking about something like patients dealing with with very, very scary situations, being able to Matt, whether it's matching a volunteer with ah mentor with a patient is going through something similar that could be game changing in lives and really kind of propagate. Talk to me about this service match that you guys have built with Bhumi. I think it's such a great service that you guys are delivering. Tell us about that. What it's enabling. >>So service matches an application that is part of our road to recovery program, where we provide rides for cancer patients to and from cancer treatment So often when you're getting chemo therapy, driving after chemotherapy is not an option. And ah, lot of a patient's have trouble with caregivers and family, always helping them. So the American Cancer Society provides this program to provide those rides free of charge for cancer patients. And the service match application is about connecting those patients to volunteers for the rides. So if if a patient calls in, they say, I need a ride, this is what time I'm going etcetera. They can do that now online as well, and we can connect them with a volunteer. So then that goes out to our volunteer community and somebody can say I can do that. I can help this person out, connects them up so that they can get to their treatments on time. >>That's so fantastic. And such a impact that you guys could make isn't something where you guys were integrating on the background with, like, a rideshare service or these just folks like Hey, I've got a car that seats five I want to help is it is available. It is. It is available to anybody. Anybody can >>volunteer, and most of the rides are handled volunteers If we cannot find a volunteer, we have a lot of great partners that worked with the American Cancer Society. They can provide those rideshare opportunities, so we'll make it happen and and get the patient to their treatment >>to talk to me about the ability to do that. That's a one great application of what you guys are doing with Bhumi. What was the actual building? That application? How long did it take to be able to say, Hey, we had this idea? We can connect these systems. We can facilitate something that's critical in the care of the patients. What was that kind of build an implementation like because when we talked a lot about time to value. And we've talked about that a lot today. So talk to me about it through that lens >>eso for us. We started on we're all on spreadsheets, right and paper. And yeah, it was it was about a 12 months process actually build some of the the service match application itself. The bony implementation came in as part of our transformation to make sure that all of the systems were integrated with that. So as people are requesting rides or whether that's through the call center or going through the website, that that information is there, that they can help patients with it. So if they need to change the schedule or do something different, that those all take place and that everybody has the latest information, it also enables us has were as changes are happening or even the rides are taking place. Notifications air going back out and back and forth so that everybody is up to date on all of the activity that's taking place. >>And to date, you guys have helped with service match alone Nearly 30,000 patients. >>Yeah, we we service. I think It's 30,000 patients a year. >>Wow. >>On the on the platform, we, uh, over 500,000 rides have been delivered since its inception. >>And And when was that inception? >>I'd have to look at the date. I don't >>know. A couple years ago were in the last. >>It's been It's probably been in over a decade now. >>Okay, that's awesome. So another thing. I'm curious. Four volunteers who want to do to raise funds to support the American Cancer Society is integration kind of essential component. You're smiling. So I think the answer is I think I know the answer. Talk to us about how, um, Bhumi is helping a CS to deliver, you know, a more seamless, a better fundraising experience for anybody that wants to actually go out and do that. >>Yeah. So we have a lot of donation processing systems that that that we leverage As for the American Cancer Society, because part of what we want to do is make it easy for people to raise money and raise it in their way. Right? So we have multiple systems, both from all the events that we do, whether it's the relay for life, for the making strides against breast cancer, which are two of our major event platforms. But we also have raised your way platforms. So if you want to do it yourself and you want to host a wine front razer with your friends and raise some money, we can absolutely help you do that as well. And what we do is we take all that information from all of that that from those events, and then bring that into the system so that we know what happened when who you were, so we can properly thank you. You can also get your tax credits and and all of the other things that go along with it. So >>that's awesome. So I want to ask you from a CEO's perspective, Bumi being a A single instance multi tenant cloud application delivered as a service to you and your previous role before you came to the American Cancer Society was insurance. Talk to me about that as a differentiator. What is that as a. C s continues to scale on, offer more programs and have more data to integrate roomies architecture and your perspective is that something that gives the A. C. S really a leg up to be able to do more, more. >>Absolutely. I think boonies, low code development strategy is is a differentiated for anybody that's using the platform it. We have been able to deliver Maur integrations in a shorter amount of time with our transformation than I've done in the past with other integration platforms or just developing it. I'll say the old fashioned way with Java or C sharp. So I think I think it's an integration platform. It's it's It's a real game changer in terms of what enterprises can do in terms of delivering, uh, faster and with Maur stability and performance than in the past, >>which is critical for many businesses that obviously yours included. They also take a look back at your previous role in a different industry. How is the role of the CEO changing in your perspective as things are moving to the cloud? But there's the explosion of edge and this consume arised implementation, right or influence because as consumers, we have access to everything and we want to be able to transact anything, whether it's signing up to be a volunteer or an actual patient needing to have access to records or a ride? How How is that consumers ation effect changing the role of the CEO, opening up more opportunities? >>Yeah, that's a big question. >>Sorry. It's >>okay. Um, yeah, I think the role of C I. O. Is changing significantly in terms of they are required to be more of a business leader are as much as a business leader as as any of the other C suite executives. And it is justice critical for them to understand the business where it's going be a part of the strategy with it and helped drive. From that perspective, The consumer ization component is actually in some ways, I think, making the c i o in the i t. Job a little bit harder. There's, um there's a lot that goes into making sure that what we're doing is secure on, performs well and sometimes just the overall consumer ization of technology. It looks so easy sometimes, and sometimes it's easy to underestimate some of the the complex nature of what we're doing and the level of security that needs to be applied to make sure that were protecting our constituents and making sure that their data is safe and secure. >>How does Boonmee help facilitate doctors? You right? We talk about security all the time. In any industry. How is what you're doing with Louis giving you maybe that peace of mind or or the confidence that what's being moved around as data and applications migrate, that you've got a secure, safe environment? That data? >>Yeah, I think Bumi does several things. First off, they've got a lot of security certifications is a part of their program. They make it relatively easy to to leverage that they allow us to deploy the the atoms where we need to. So whether that's on Prem or in our own tenants, behind our firewalls, all of those things will allow us to deploy it in whatever method we feel is most secure based on the data that we're trying to move >>except Well, Kenny, it's been a pleasure having you on the Cube just really quickly. Where can we go if we want to become a volunteered to help patients >>san sir dot org's >>cancer dot org's Awesome Kenny has been a pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank congratulations on the massive impact that A C S is making not just with Bhumi, but in the lives of many, many people. We appreciate your time. >>We're very excited and happy. We can help. >>All right. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube from Bhumi World 2019. Thanks for watching.

(bright upbeat music) >> Okay, we're back with theCUBE's continuous coverage of HPE's latest GreenLake announcement, the continuous cadence that we're seeing here. You know, when you're trying to figure out how to optimize workloads, it's getting more and more complex. Data-driven workloads are coming in to the scene, and so how do you know, with confidence, how to configure your systems, keep your costs down, and get the best performance and value for that? So we're going to talk about that. With me are Chris Shin, who is the founder of CloudPhysics and the senior director of HPE CloudPhysics, and Sandeep Singh, who's the vice-president of Storage Marketing. Gents, great to see you. Welcome. >> Dave, it's a pleasure to be here. >> So let's talk about the problem first, Sandeep, if we could. what are you guys trying to solve? What are you hearing from customers when they talk to you about their workloads and optimizing their workloads? >> Yeah, Dave, that's a great question. Overall, what customers are asking for is just to simplify their world. They want to be able to go faster. A lot of business is asking IT, let's go faster. One of the things that cloud got right is that overall cloud operational experience, that's bringing agility to organizations. We've been on this journey of bringing this cloud operational agility to customers for their data states, especially with HPE GreenLake Edge-to-Cloud platform. >> Dave: Right. >> And we're doing that with, you know, powering that with data-driven intelligence. Across the board, we've been transforming that operational support experience with HPE InfoSight. And what's incredibly exciting is now we're talking about how we can transform that experience in that upfront IT procurement portion of the process. You asked me what are customers asking about in terms of how to optimize those workloads. And when you think about when customers are purchasing infrastructure to support their app workloads, today it's still in the dark ages. They're operating on heuristics, or a gut feel. The data-driven insights are just missing. And with this incredible complexity across the full stack, how do you figure out where should I be placing my apps, whether on Prim or in the public cloud, and/or what's the right size infrastructure built upon what's actually being consumed in terms of resource utilization across the board. That's where we see a tremendous opportunity to continue to transform the experience for customers now with data-driven insights for smarter IT decisions. >> You know, Chris, Sandeep's right. It's like, it's like tribal knowledge. Well, Kenny would know how to do that, but Kenny doesn't work here anymore. So you've announced CloudPhysics. Tell us more about what that is, what impact it's going to have for customers. >> Sure. So just as Sandeep said, basically the problem that exists in IT today is you've got a bunch of customers that are getting overwhelmed with more and more options to solve their business problems. They're looking at cloud options, they're looking at new technologies, they're looking at new sub-technologies and the level at which people are competing for infrastructure sales is down at the very, very, you know, splitting hairs level in terms of features. And they don't know how much of these they need to acquire. Then on the other side, you've got partners and vendors who are trying to package up solutions and products to serve these people's needs. And while the IT industry has, for decades, done a good job of automating problems out of other technology spaces, hasn't done a good job of automating their own problems in terms of what does this customer need? How do I best service them? So you've got an unsatisfied customer and an inadequately equipped partner. CloudPhysics brings those two together in a common data platform, so that both those customers and their partners can look at the same set of data that came out of their data center and pick the solutions that will solve their problems most efficiently. >> So talk more about the partner angle, because it sounds like, you know, if they don't have a Kenny, they really need some help, and it's got to be repeatable. It's got to be consistent. So how have partners reacting to this? >> Very, very strongly. Over the course of the four or five years that that CloudPhysics has been doing this in market, we've had thousands and thousands of VARs, SIs and others, as well as many of the biggest technology providers in the market today, use CloudPhysics to help speed up the sales process, but also create better and more satisfied customers. >> So you guys made... Oh, go ahead, please. >> Well, I was just going to chime into that. When you think about partners that with HPE CloudPhysics, where it supports heterogeneous data center environments, partners all of a sudden get this opportunity to be much more strategic to their customers. They're operating on real world insights that are specific to that customer's environment. So now they can really have a tailored conversation as well as offer tailored solutions designed specifically for the areas, you know, where help is needed. >> Well, I think it builds an affinity with the customer as well, because if the partners that trust advisor, if you give a customer some advice and it's kind of the wrong advice, "Hey, we got to go back and reconfigure that workload. We won't charge you that much for it". You're now paying twice. Like when an accountant makes a mistake on your tax return, you got to pay for that again. But so, you guys acquired CloudPhysics in February of this year. What can you tell us about what's transpired since then? How many engagements that you've done? What kind of metrics can you share? >> Yeah. Chris, do you want to weigh in for that? >> Sure, sure. The start of it really has been to create a bunch of customized analytics on the CloudPhysics platform to target specific sales motions that are relevant to HPE partners. So what do I mean by that? You'll remember that in May, we announced the Alletra Series 6,000 and 9,000. In tandem with that, CloudPhysics released a new set of analytics that help someone who's interested in those technologies figure out what model might be best for them and how much firepower they would need from one or the other of those solutions. Similarly, we have a bunch solutions and a market strength in the HCI world, hyper converged, and that's both SimpliVity and dHCI. And we've set up some analytics that specifically help someone who's interested in that form factor to accelerate, and again, pick the right solutions that will serve their exact applications needs. >> When you talk to customers, are they able to give you a sense as to the cost impacts? I mean, even if it's subjective, "Hey, we think we, you know, we save 10% versus the way we used to do it", or more or less. I mean, just even gut feel metrics. >> So I'll start that one, Sandeep. So there's sort of two ways to look at it. One thing is, because we know everything that's currently running in the data center - we discovered that - we have a pretty good cost of what it is costing them today to run their workloads. So anything that we compare that to, whether it's a transition to public cloud or a transition to a hosted VMware solution, or a set of new infrastructure, we can compare their current costs to the specific solutions that are available to them. But on the more practical side of things, oftentimes customers know intuitively this is a set of servers I bought four years ago, or this is an old array that I know is loose. It's not keeping up anymore. So they typically have some fairly specific places to start, which gives that partner a quick win, solving a specific customer problem. And then it can often boil out into the rest of the data center, and continual optimization can occur. >> How unique is this? I mean, is it, you know, can you give us a little glimpse of the secret sauce behind it? Is this kind of table stakes for the industry? >> Yeah. I mean, look, it's unique in the sense that CloudPhysics brings along over 200 metrics across the spectrum of virtual machines and guest OSs, as well as the overall CPU and RAM utilization, overall infrastructure analysis, and built in cloud simulators. So what customers are able to do is basically, in real time, be able to: A - be aware of exactly what their environment looks like; B - be able to simulate if they were going to move and give an application workload to the cloud; C - they're able to just right-size the underlying infrastructure across the board. Chris? >> Well, I was going to say, yeah, along the same lines, there have been similar technology approaches to different problems. Most notably in the current HPE portfolio, InfoSight. Best in class, data lake driven, very highly analytical machine learning, geared predominantly toward an optimization model, right? CloudPhysics is earlier in the talk track with the customer. We're going to analyze your environment where HPE may not even have a footprint today. And then we're going to give you ideas of what products might help you based on very similar techniques, but approaching a very different problem. >> So you've got data, you've got experience, you know what best practice looks like. You get a sense as to the envelope as to what's achievable, right? And that is just going to get better and better and better over time. One of the things that that I've said, and we've said on theCUBE, is that the definition of cloud is changing. It's expanding, it's not just public cloud anymore. It's a remote set of services, it's coming on Prim, there's a hybrid connection. We're going across clouds, we're going out to the edge. So can CloudPhysics help with that complexity? >> Yeah, absolutely. So we have a set of analytics in the cloud world that range from we're going to price your on-premise IT. We also have the ability to simulate a transition, a set of workloads to AWS, Azure, or Google Cloud. We also have the ability to translate to VMware based solutions on many of those public clouds. And we're increasingly spreading our umbrella over GreenLake as well, and showing the optimization opportunities for a GreenLake solution when contrasted with some of those other clouds. So there's not a lot of... >> So it's not static. >> It's not static at all. And Dave, you were mentioning earlier in terms such as proven. CloudPhysics now has operated on trillions of data points over millions of virtual machines across thousands of overall data assessments. So there's a lot of proven learnings through that as well as actual optimizations that customers have benefited from. >> Yes. I mean, there's benchmarks, but it's more than that because benchmarks tend to be static, okay. We consider rules of thumb. We're living in an age with a lot more data, a lot more machine intelligence. And so this is organic, it'll evolve. >> Sandeep: Absolutely. >> And the partners who work with their customers on a regular basis over at CloudPhysics, and then build up a history over time of what's changing in their data center can even provide better service. They can look back over a year, if we've been collecting, and they can see what the operating system landscape has changed, how different workloads have lost popularity, how other ones have gained. And they really can become a much better solution provider to that customer the longer CloudPhysics is used. >> Yeah, it gives your partners a competitive advantage, it's a much stickier model because the customer is going to trust your partner more if they get it right. So we're not going to change horses in the middle of the street. We're going to go back to the partner that set us up, and they keep getting better and better and better each time, we've got a good cadence going. All right. Sandeep, bring us home. What's your sort of summary? How should we think about this going forward? >> Well, I'll bring us right back to the way I started is, and to end, we're looking at how we continue to deliver best in class cloud operational experience for customers across the board with HPE GreenLake. And earlier this year, we unveiled this cloud operation experience for data, and for customers, that experience starts with a cloud consult where they can essentially discover services, consume services, that overall operational and support experience is transformed with HPE InfoSight. And now we're transforming this experience where any organization out there that's looking to get data-driven insights into what should they do next? Where should they place their workloads? How to right-size the infrastructure? And in the process, be able to transform how they are working and collaborating with their partners. They're able to do that now with HPE CloudPhysics, bringing these data driven insights for smarter IT decision-making. >> I like this a lot, because a lot of the cloud is trial and error. And when you try and you make a mistake, you're paying each time. So this is a great innovation to really help clients focus on the things that matter, you know, helping them apply technology to solve their business problems. Guys, thanks so much for coming to theCUBE. Appreciate it. >> Dave, always a pleasure. >> Thanks very much for having us. >> And keep it right there. We got more content from HPE's GreenLake announcements. Look for the cadence. One of the hallmarks of cloud is the cadence of announcements. We're seeing HPE on a regular basis, push out new innovations. Keep it right there for more. (bright upbeat music begins) (bright upbeat music ends)

>>Hello, and welcome to today's event, dealing government emergency responses beyond the pandemic. This is Bob Wooley, senior fellow for the center for digital government and formerly the chief tech clerk for the state of Utah. I'm excited to serve as moderator for today's event. And just want to say, thank you for joining us. I know we're in for an informative session over the next 60 minutes before we begin a couple of brief housekeeping notes or recording of this presentation will be emailed to all registrants within 48 hours. You can use the recording for your reference or feel free to pass it along to colleagues. This webcast is designed to be interactive and you can participate in Q and a with us by asking questions at any time during the presentation, you should see a Q and a box on the bottom left of the presentation panel. >>Please send in your questions as they come out throughout the presentation, our speakers will address as many of these questions as we can during the Q and a portion of the close of our webinar today, if you would like to download the PDF of the slides for this presentation, you can do so by clicking the webinar resources widget at the bottom of the console. Also during today's webinar, you'll be able to connect with your peers by LinkedIn, Twitter and Facebook. Please use the hashtag gov tech live to connect with your peers across the government technology platform, via Twitter. At the close of the webinar, we encourage you to complete a brief survey about the presentation. We would like to hear what you think if you're unable to see with us for the entire webinar, but we're just like to complete the survey. As much as you're able, please click the survey widget at the bottom of the screen to launch the survey. Otherwise it will pop up once the webinar concludes at this time, we recommend that you disable your pop-up blockers, and if you experiencing any media player issues or have any other problems, please visit our webcast help guide by clicking on the help button at the bottom of the console. >>Joining me today to discuss this very timely topic are Karen revolt and Tim Burch, Kim Berge currently serves as the administrator of human services for Clark County Nevada. He's invested over 20 years in improving health and human service systems of care or working in the private public and nonprofit sectors. 18 of those years have been in local government in Clark County, Las Vegas, where you served in a variety of capacities, including executive leadership roles as the director of department of social services, as well as the director for the department of family services. He has also served as CEO for provider of innovative hosted software solutions, as well as chief strategy officer for a boutique public sector consulting firm. Karen real-world is the social program management offering lead for government health and human services with IBM Watson health. Karen focuses delivering exciting new offerings by focusing on market opportunities, determining unmet needs and identifying innovative solutions. >>Much of her career has been in health and human services focused on snap, TANIF, Medicaid, affordable care act, and child welfare prior to joining IBM. Karen was the senior director of product management for a systems integrator. She naturally fell in love with being a project manager. She can take her user requirements and deliver offerings. Professionals would use to make their job easier and more productive. Karen has also found fulfillment in working in health and human services on challenges that could possibly impact the outcome of people's lives. Now, before we begin our discussion of the presentation, I want to one, we'd like to learn a little more about you as an audience. So I'm going to ask you a polling question. Please take a look at this. Give us an idea of what is your organization size. I won't bother to read all these to you, but there are other a range of sizes zero to 250 up to 50,000. Please select the one that is most appropriate and then submit. >>It looks like the vast majority are zero to two 50. Don't have too many over 250,000. So this is a very, very interesting piece of information. Now, just to set up our discussion today, what I want to do is just spend just a moment and talk about the issue that we're dealing with. So when you look the COVID-19 pandemic, it's put immense pressure on States. I've been a digital state judge and had been judging a lot of the responses from States around the country. It's been very interesting to me because they bifurcate really into two principle kinds of reactions to the stress providing services that COVID environment present. One is we're in a world of hurt. We don't have enough money. I think I'm going to go home and engage as little as I have to. Those are relatively uncommon. Thankfully, most of them have taken the COVID-19 pandemic has immense opportunity for them to really do a lot more with telework, to do more with getting people, employees, and citizens involved with government services. >>And I've done some really, really creative things along the way. I find that to be a really good thing, but in many States systems have been overloaded as individuals and families throughout the country submitted just an unprecedented number of benefit applications for social services. At the same time, government agencies have had to contend with social distance and the need for a wholly different approach to engage with citizens. Um, overall most public agencies, regardless of how well they've done with technology have certainly felt some strain. Now, today we have the opportunity to go into a discussion with our speakers, have some wonderful experience in these areas, and I'm going to be directing questions to them. And again, we encourage you as you hear what they have to say. Be sure and submit questions that we can pick up later at the time. So Tim, let's start with you. Given that Las Vegas is a hub for hospitality. An industry hit severely as a result of this pandemic. How's the County doing right now and how are you prioritizing the growing needs of the County? >>Thanks Bob. Thanks for having me. Let me start off by giving just a little, maybe context for Clark County too, to our audience today. So, uh, Clark County is, you know, 85% of the state of Nevada if we serve not just as a regional County by way of service provision, but also direct municipal services. Well, if, uh, the famous Las Vegas strip is actually in unincorporated Clark County, and if we were incorporated, we would be the largest city in the state. So I say all of that to kind of help folks understand that we provide a mix of services, not just regional services, like health and human services, the direct and, and missable, uh, services as well as we work with our other five jurisdiction partners, uh, throughout the area. Uh, we are very much, um, I think during the last recession we were called the Detroit of the West. >>And, uh, that was because we're very much seen as a one industry town. Uh, so most like when the car plants, the coal plants closed back East and in the communities fuel that very rapidly, the same thing happens to us when tourism, uh, it's cut. Uh, so of course, when we went into complete shutdown and March, uh, we felt it very rapidly, not just on, uh, uh, tax receipts and collectibles, but the way in which we could deliver services. So of course our first priority was to, uh, like I think you mentioned mobilized staff. We, we mobilized hundreds of staff overnight with laptops and phones and cars and the things they needed to do to get mobile and still provide the priority services that we're mandated to provide from a safety standpoint. Um, and then we got busy working for our clients and that's really where our partnership with IBM and Watson, uh, came in and began planning that in July. And we're able to open that portal up in October to, to really speed up the way in which we're giving assistance to, to our residents. Um, re focus has been on making sure that people stay housed. We have, uh, an estimated, uh, 2.5 million residents and over 150,000 of those households are anticipated to be facing eviction, uh, as of January one. So we, we've got a, a big task ahead of us. >>All of this sounds kind of expensive. Uh, one of the common threads as you know, runs throughout government is, ah, I don't really have the money for that. I think I'd be able to afford that a diaper too, as well. So what types of funding has been made available for counties, a result of a pandemic, >>Primarily our funding stream that we're utilizing to get these services out the door has been the federal cares act. Uh, now we had some jurisdictions regionally around us and even locally that prioritize those funds in a different way. Um, our board of County commissioners, uh, took, um, a sum total of about $85 million of our 240 million that said, this will go directly to residents in the form of rental assistance and basic needs support. No one should lose their home or go hungry during this pandemic. Uh, so we've really been again working through our community partners and through our IBM tools to make sure that happens. >>So how does, how does, how does the cares act funding then support Clark County? Cause it seems to me that the needs would be complex, diverse >>Pretty much so. So as you, as folks may know him a call there's several tronches of the cares act, the original cares act funding that has come down to us again, our board, uh, identified basic needs or rental assistance and, and gave that the department of social service to go to the tunicate, uh, through the community. We then have the cares act, uh, uh, coronavirus relief funds that have, uh, impacted our CDBG and our emergency solutions grants. We've taken those. And that's what we was going to keep a lot of the programs and services, uh, like our IBM Watson portal open past January one when the cares act dollars expire. Uh, our initial response was a very manual one, uh, because even though we have a great home grown homeless management information system, it does not do financials. Uh, so we had 14 local nonprofits adjudicating, uh, this rental assistance program. >>And so we could get our social service visitor portal up, uh, to allow us to take applications digitally and run that through our program. Uh, and, uh, so those partners were obviously very quickly overwhelmed and were able to stand up our portal, uh, which for the reason we were driving so hard, even from, uh, beginning of the conversations where after going into lockdown into contracting in July and getting the portal open in October, which was an amazing turnaround. Uh, so the kudos that IBM team, uh, for getting us up and out the door so quickly, uh, was a tie in, uh, to our, uh, Curam IBM, uh, case management system that we utilize to adjudicate benefits on daily basis in Clark County for all our local indigent population, uh, and high needs folks. Uh, and then that ties into our SAP IBM platform, which gets the checks out the door. >>So what, what we've been able to do with these dollars is created in Lucian, uh, that has allowed us in the last 60 days to get as much money out the door, as our nonprofits were able go out the door in the first six months pandemic. So it really has helped us. Uh, so I'm really grateful to our board of County commissioners for recognizing the investment in technology to, to not only get our teams mobile, but to create ease of access for our constituents and our local residents to give them the help they need quickly and the way that they need it. >>Just to follow up question to that, Tim, that I'm curious about having done a lot of work like this in government, sometimes getting procurement through in a timely way is a bit challenging. How were you able to work through those issues and getting this up and provision so quickly? >>Uh, yeah, so we, we put together a, what we call a pandemic playbook, which is kind of lessons learned. And what we've seen is the folks who were essential workers in the first 60 days of the, uh, pandemic. We were able to get a lot done quickly because we were taking full advantage of the emergency. Uh, it may sound a little crass to folks not inside the service world, but it was, uh, you know, don't want you to crisis. It was things we've been planning or trying to do for years. We need them yesterday. We should have had them yesterday, but let's get them tomorrow and get it moving very quickly. Uh, this IBM procurement was something we were able to step through very quickly because of our longstanding relationship. Our countywide, uh, system of record for our financials is SAP. Uh, we've worked with Curam, uh, solution, uh, for years. >>So we've got this long standing relationship and trust in the product and the teams, which helped us build the business case of why we did it, no need to go out for competitive procurement that we didn't have time. And we needed something that would integrate very quickly into our existing systems. Uh, so that part was there. Now when the folks who were non essential came back in June and the reopening, it was whiplash, uh, the speed at which we were moving, went back to the pace of normal business, uh, which feels like hitting a wall, doing a hundred miles an hour when you're used to having that, uh, mode of doing business. Uh, so that's certainly been a struggle, uh, for all of those involved, uh, in trying to continue to get things up. Um, but, uh, once again, the teams have been great because we've probably tripled our licensure on this portal since we opened it, uh, because of working with outside vendors, uh, to, uh, literally triple the size of our staff that are processing these applications by bringing on temporary staff, uh, and short-term professionals. Uh, and so we've been able to get those things through, uh, because we'd already built the purchasing vehicle during the early onset of the crisis. >>That's very helpful. Karen, IBM has played a really pivotal role in all of this. Uh, IBM Watson health works with a number of global government agencies, raging from counties like Clark County to federal governments. What are some of the major challenges you've seen with your clients as a result of the pandemic and how is technology supporting them in a time of need and give us some background Watson health too. So we kind of know a little more about it because this is really a fascinating area. >>Yeah. Thank you, Bob. And thanks Tim for the background on Clark County, because I think Clark County is definitely also an example of what federal governments and global governments are doing worldwide today. So, um, Watson health is our division within IBM where we really focus on health and human services. And our goal is to really focus in on, um, the outcomes that we're providing to individuals and families and looking at how we use data and insights to really make that impact and that change. And within that division, we have our government health and human services area, which is the focus of where we are with our clients around social program. But it also allows us to work with, um, different agencies and really look at how we can really move the ball in terms of, um, effecting change and outcomes for, um, really moving the needle of how we can, uh, make an impact on individuals and families. >>So as we look at the globe globally as well, you know, everything that Tim had mentioned about how the pandemic has really changed the way that government agencies operate and how they do services, I think it's amazing that you have that pandemic playbook because a lot of agencies in the same way also had these set of activities that they always wanted to go and take part on, but there was no impetus to really allow for that to happen. And with the pandemic, it allowed that to kind of open and say, okay, we can try this. And unfortunately I'm in a very partial house way to do that. And, um, what Tim has mentioned about the new program that they set up for the housing, some of those programs could take a number of years to really get a program online and get through and allowing, uh, the agencies to be able to do that in a matter of weeks is amazing. >>And I think that's really gonna set a precedent as we go forward and how you can bring on programs such as the housing and capability in Canada with the economic, uh, social, um, uh, development and, and Canada need that the same thing. They actually had a multi benefit delivery system that was designed to deliver benefits for three programs. And as part of the department of fisheries and oceans Canada, the, um, the state had an emergency and they really need to set up on how they could provide benefits to the fishermen who had been at that impacted, um, from that. And they also did set up a digital front-end using IBM citizen engagement to start to allow the applications that benefits, um, and they set it up in a matter of weeks. And as I mentioned, we, uh, Clark County had a backend legacy system where they could connect to and process those applications. And this case, this is a brand new program and the case management system that they brought up was on cloud. And they had to set up a new one, but allow them to set up a, what we used to call straight through processing, I think has been now turned, turned or coined contact less, uh, processing and allowing us to really start to move those benefits and get those capabilities out to the citizens in even a faster way than has been imagined. Uh, pre pandemic. >>Karen, I have one follow-up question. I want to ask you, having had a lot of experience with large projects in government. Sometimes there's a real gap between getting to identified real requirements and then actions. How do you, how do you work with clients to make sure that process time to benefit is shortened? >>So we really focus on the user themselves and we take a human centered design focus and really prioritizing what those needs are. Um, so working with the clients, uh, effectively, and then going through agile iterations of brain, that capability out as, um, in, in a phased approach to, so the idea of getting what we can bring out that provides quality and capability to the users, and then over time starting to really roll out additional functions and, um, other, uh, things that citizens or individuals and families would need >>Very helpful. Tim, this is an interesting partnership. It's always good to see partnerships between private sector and government. Tell us a little bit about how the partnership with IBM Watson health was established and what challenges or they were brought into assist, where they brought into assist with back to requirements. Again, within the requirements definitely shifted on us. You know, we had the con looking at, uh, Watson on our child welfare, uh, side of the house that I'm responsible for and how that we could, uh, increase access to everything from tele-health to, to, uh, foster parent benefit, uh, kinship, placement benefits, all those types of things that, that right now are very manual, uh, on the child welfare side. Uh, and then the pandemic kid. And we very quickly realized that we needed, uh, to stand up a, um, a new program because, uh, a little bit for context, uh, the park County, we don't administer TANIF or Medicaid at the County level. >>It is done at the state level. So we don't have, uh, unemployment systems or Medicaid, 10 of snap benefits systems to be able to augment and enroll out. We provide, uh, the indigent supports the, the homelessness prevention, referee housing continuum of care, long-term care, really deep emergency safety net services for our County, which is a little bit different and how those are done. So that was really our focus, which took a lot of in-person investigation. We're helping people qualify for disability benefits so they can get into permanent supportive housing, uh, things that are very intensive. And yet now we have a pandemic where we need things to happen quickly because the cares act money expires at the end of December. And people were facing eviction and eviction can help spread exposure to, to COVID. Uh, so, uh, be able to get in and very rapidly, think about what is the minimal pelvis to MVP. >>What's the minimum viable product that we can get out the door that will help people, uh, entrance to a system as contactless as possible, which again was a complete one 80 from how we had been doing business. Um, and, uh, so the idea that you could get on and you have this intelligent chat bot that can walk you through questions, help you figure out if you look like you might be eligible, roll you right into an application where you can upload the few documents that we're going to require to help verify your coat would impact and do that from a smartphone and under, you know, 20 minutes. Um, it, it, it is amazing. And the fact that we've stood that up and got it out the door in 90 days, it's just amazing to me, uh, when it shows the, uh, strength of partnership. Um, I think we can, we have some shared language because we had that ongoing partnership, but we were able to actually leverage some system architects that we had that were familiar with our community and our other products. So it really helped expedite, uh, getting this, uh, getting this out to the citizens. >>So, uh, I assume that there are some complexities in doing this. So overall, how has this deployment of citizen engagement with Watson gone and how do you measure success other than you got it out quick? How do you know if it's working? >>Yeah. Right. So it's the adage of, you know, quick, fast and good, right. Um, or fast, good and cheap. So, uh, we measure success in this way. Um, how are we getting access as our number one quality measurement here? So we were able to collect, uh, about 13,000 applications, uh, manual NRC, manually folks had to go onto our website, download a PDF, fill it out, email it, or physically drop it off along with their backup. One of their choice of 14 non-profits in town, whichever is closest to them. Um, and, uh, and then wait for that process. And they were able to get 13,000 of those, uh, process for the last six months. Uh, we have, I think we had about 8,000 applications the first month come into the portal and about an equal amount of folks who could not provide the same documentation that it was needed. >>And self-selected out. If we had not had the, the tool in place, we would have had 16,000 applications, half of which would have been non-eligible would have been jamming up the system, uh, when we don't have the bandwidth to deal to deal with that, we, we need to be able to focus in on, uh, Judy Kenny applications that we believe are like a 95% success rate from the moment our staff gets them, but because we have the complex and he was on already being dependent upon the landlord, having to verify the rent amount and be willing to work with us, um, which is a major hurdle. Um, but, uh, so w we knew we could not do is go, just reinvent the manual process digitally that that would have been an abject failure on our behalf. So, uh, the ideas that, uh, folks had can go on a very, had this very intuitive conversation to the chat bot, answer some questions and find out if they're eligible. >>And then self-select out was critical for us to not only make sure that the citizens got the help they needed, but not so burnt out and overload our workforce, which is already feeling the strain of the COVID pandemic on their own personal lives and in their homes and in the workplace. Um, so that was really critical for us. So it's not just about speed, ease of access was important. Uh, the ability to quickly automate things on the fly, uh, we have since changed, uh, the area median income, a qualifier for the rental assistance, because we were able to reallocate more money, uh, to the program. So we were able to open it up to more people. We were able to make that, uh, change to the system very quickly. Uh, the idea that we can go on the home page and put updates, uh, we recognized that, uh, some of our monolingual Hispanic residents were having difficulty even with some guidance getting through the system. >>So we're able to record a, a Spanish language walkthrough and get done on the home page the next day, right into the fordable, there'll be a fine, so they could literally run the YouTube video while they're walking through their application. Side-by-side so things like that, that those are how we are able to, for us measured success, not just in the raw dollars out the door, not just in the number of applications that have come in, but our ability to be responsive when we hear from our constituents and our elected officials that, Hey, I want, I appreciate the 15,000 applications as you all, a process and record time, I've got three, four, five, six, 10 constituents that having this type of problem and be able to go back and retool our systems to make them more intuitive, to do, be able to keep them responsive for us is definitely a measure of success and all of this, probably more qualitative than here we're looking >>For, but, uh, that's for us, that's important. Actually the qualitative side is what usually gets ignored. Uh, Karen, I've got a question that's a follow up for you on the same topic. How does IBM facilitate reporting within this kind of an environment given the different needs of stakeholders, online managers and citizens? What kinds of things do you, are you able to do >>So with, um, the influx of digitalization? I think it allows us to really take a more data-driven approach to start looking at that. So, as, as Tim was mentioning, you can see where potentially users are spending more time on certain questions, or if they're stuck on a question, you can see where the abandoned rate is. So using a more data-driven approach to go in to identify, you know, how do we actually go and, um, continue to drive that user experience that may not be something that we drive directly from the users. So I would say that analytics is really, uh, I think going to continue to be a driving force as government agencies go forward, because now they are capturing the data. But one thing that they have to be careful of is making sure that the data that they're getting is the right data to give them the information, to make the right next steps and decisions. >>And Tim, you know, use a really good example with, um, the chatbot in terms of, you know, with the influx of everything going on with COVID, the citizens are completely flooded with information and how do they get the right information to actually help them decide, can I apply for this chap program? Or should I, you know, not even try and what Tim mentioned just saved the citizens, you know, the people that may not be eligible a lot of time and going through and applying, and then getting denied by having that upfront, I have questions and I need answers. Um, so again, more data-driven of how do we provide that information? And, you know, we've seen traditionally citizens having to go on multiple website, web pages to get an answer to the question, because they're like, I think I have a question in this area, but I'm not exactly sure. And they, then they're starting to hunt and hunt and hunt and not even potentially get an answer. So the chocolate really like technology-wise helps to drive, you know, more data-driven answers to what, um, whether it's a citizen, whether it's, um, Tim who needs to understand how and where my citizens getting stuck, are they able to complete the application where they are? Can we really get the benefits to, um, this individual family for the housing needs >>Too many comments on the same thing. I know you have to communicate measures of success to County executives and others. How do you do that? I mean, are you, do you have enough information to do it? Yeah, we're able to, we actually have a standup meeting every morning where the first thing I learn is how many new applications came in overnight. How many of those were completed with full documentation? How many will be ported over into our system, assigned the staff to work, where they're waiting >>On landlord verification. So I can see the entire pipeline of applications, which helps us then determine, um, Oh, it's, it's not, you know, maybe urban legend is that folks are having difficulty accessing the system. When I see really the bottleneck there, it got gotten the system fine, the bottlenecks laying with our landlord. So let's do a landlord, a town hall and iterate and reeducate them about what their responsibilities are and how easy it is for them to respond with the form they need to attest to. And so it lets us see in real time where we're having difficulties, uh, because, uh, there's a constant pressure on this system. Not just that, uh, we don't want anyone to lose their home, uh, but these dollars also go away within a December. So we've got this dual pressure of get it right and get it right now. >>Uh, and so th the ability to see these data and these metrics on, on a daily basis is critical for us to, to continue to, uh, ModuLite our response. Um, and, and not just get comfortable are baked into well, that's why we developed the flowchart during requirements, and that's just the way things are gonna stay. Uh, that's not how you respond to a pandemic. Uh, and so having a tool and a partner that helps us, uh, stay flexible, state agile, I guess, to, to, to leverage some terminology, uh, is important. And, and it's, it's paid dividends for our citizens. Karen, again, is another up to the same thing. I'm kind of curious about one of the problems of government from time to time. And Tim, I think attest to this is how do you know when Dunn has been reached? How did you go about defining what done would look like for the initial rollout with this kind of a customer? >>So I think Doug, I guess in this case, um, is, is this, isn't able to get the benefits that they're looking for and how do we, uh, you know, starting from, I think what we were talking about earlier, like in terms of requirements and what is the minimum viable, um, part of that, and then you start to add on the bells and whistles that we're really looking to do. So, um, you know, our team worked with him to really define what are those requirements. I know it's a new program. So some of those policy decisions were still also being worked out as the requirements were being defined as well. So making sure that you are staying on top of, okay, what are the key things and what do we really need to do from a compliance standpoint, from a functionality, and obviously, um, the usability of how, uh, an assistant can come on and apply and, um, have those, uh, requirements, make sure that you can meet that, that version before you start adding on additional scope. >>Very helpful. Jim, what's your comment on this since I know done matters to you? Yeah. And look, I I've lived through a, again, multiple, uh, county-wide it implementations and some department wide initiatives as well. So I think we know that our staff always want more so nothing's ever done, uh, which is a challenge and that's on our side of the customer. Um, but, uh, for this, it really was our, our experience of recognizing the, the time was an essence. We didn't have a chance. We didn't have, uh, the space to get into these endless, uh, conversations, uh, the agile approach, rather than doing the traditional waterfall, where we would have been doing requirements tracking for months before we ever started coding, it was what do we need minimally to get a check in the hands of a landlord on behalf of a client, so they don't get evicted. >>And we kept just re honing on that. That's nice. Let's put that in the parking lot. We'll come back to it because again, we want to leverage this investment long term, uh, because we've got a we, and we've got the emergency solutions and CDBG, and then our, uh, mainstream, uh, services we brought on daily basis, but we will come back to those things speed and time are of the essence. So what do we need, uh, to, to get this? So a chance to really, um, educate our staff about the concepts of agile iteration, um, and say, look, this is not just on the it side. We're gonna roll a policy out today around how you're doing things. And we may figure out through data and metrics that it's not working next week, and we'll have to have that. You want it. And you're going to get the same way. >>You're getting updated guidance from the CDC on what to do and what not to do. Uh, health wise, you're getting the same from us, uh, and really to helping the staff understand that process from the beginning was key. And, uh, so, and, and that's, again, partnering with, with our development team in that way was helpful. Um, because once we gave them that kind of charter as I am project champion, this is what we're saying. They did an equally good job of staying on task and getting to the point of is this necessary or nice. And if it wasn't necessary, we put it in the nice category and we'll come back to it. So I think that's really helpful. My experience having done several hundred sheet applications also suggest the need for MBP matters, future stages really matter and not getting caught. My flying squirrels really matters. So you don't get distracted. So let's move on to, let's do a polling question before we go on to some of our other questions. So for our audience, do you have a digital front ends for your benefit delivery? Yes, no. Or we're planning to a lot of response here yet. There we go. Looks like about half, have one and half note. So that's an interesting question. What's going to one more polling question, learn a little more here. Has COVID-19 >>Accelerated or moved cloud. Yes, no. We already run a majority of applications on cloud. Take a moment and respond if you would, please. So this is interesting. No real acceleration was taken place and in terms of moving to cloud is not what I was expecting, but that's interesting. So let's go onto another question then. And Karen, let me direct this one to you, given that feedback, how do you envision technologies such as citizen engagement and watching the system will be used, respond to emergency situations like the pandemic moving forward? I mean, what should government agencies consider given the challenges? This kind of a pandemic is brought upon government and try to tie this in, if you would, what, what is the role of cloud in all of this for making this happen in a timely way? Karen, take it away. >>Okay. Thanks Bob. So as we started the discussion around the digital expansion, you know, we definitely see additional programs and additional capabilities coming online as we continue on. Um, I think, uh, agencies have really seen a way to connect with their citizens and families and landlords, um, in this case an additional way. And he prepared them like there were, uh, presuppose assumptions that the, um, the citizens or landlords really wanted to interact with agency face-to-face and have that high touch part. And I think, um, through this, the governments have really learned that there is a way to still have an impact on the citizen without having a slow, do a face to face. And so I think that's a big realization for them to now really explore other ways to digitally explain, expand their programs and capabilities. Another area that we touched on was around the AI and chat bot piece. >>So as we start to see capabilities like this, the reason why Clark County was able to bring it up quickly and everything was because it was housed on cloud, we are seeing the push of starting to move some of the workloads. I know from a polling question perspective that it's been, um, lighter in terms of getting, uh, moving to the cloud. But we have seen the surge of really chatbots. I think we've been talking about chatbots for a while now. And, um, agencies hadn't really had the ability to start to implement that and really put it into effect. But with the pandemic, they were able to bring things up and, you know, very short amount of time to solve, um, a big challenge of not having the call center be flooded and have a different way to direct that engagement between the citizen and the government. >>So really building a different type of channel for them to engage rather than having to call or to come into an office, which wasn't really allowed in terms of, um, the pandemic. Um, the other thing I'll touch on is, um, 10 mentioned, you know, the backlog of applications that are coming in and we're starting to see the, um, the increase in automation. How do we automate areas where it's administratively highly burdened, but it's really a way that we can start to automate those processes, to give our workers the ability to focus on more of those complex situations that really need attention. So we're starting to see where the trends of trying to push there of can we automate some of those processes, um, uh, uploading documents and verification documents is another way of like, trying to look at, is there a way that we can make that easier? >>Not only for the applicant that's applying, but also for the caseworker. So there's not having to go through that. Um, does the name match, um, the applicant, uh, information and what we're looking on here, and Bob, you mentioned cloud. So behind the scenes of, you know, why, uh, government agencies are really pushing the cloud is, um, you heard about, I mean, with the pandemic, you see a surge of applicants coming in for those benefits and how do we scale for that kind of demand and how do you do that in an inappropriate way, without the huge pressures that you put on to your data center or your staff who's already trying to help our citizens and applicants, applicants, and families get the benefits they need. And so the cloud, um, you know, proposition of trying, being able to be scalable and elastic is really a key driver that we've seen in terms of, uh, uh, government agencies going to cloud. >>We haven't really seen during a pandemic, the core competencies, some of them moving those to cloud, it's really been around that digital front end, the chat bot area of how do we start to really start with that from a cloud perspective and cloud journey, and then start to work in the other processes and other areas. Um, security is also huge, uh, focus right now with the pandemic and everything going online. And with cloud allows you to be able to make sure that you're secure and be able to apply the right security so that you're always covered in terms of the type of demand and, um, impact, uh, that is coming through >>Very helpful. Tim, I'm going to ask to follow up on this of a practical nature. So you brought this up very quickly. Uh, there's a certain amount of suspicion around state government County government about chatbots. How did you get a chat much and be functional so quickly? And were you able to leverage the cloud in this process? Yeah, so on the trust is important. Uh, and I'll go back to my previous statement about individuals being able to see upfront whether they believe they're eligible or not, because nothing will erode trust more than having someone in hours applying and weeks waiting to find out they were denied because they weren't eligible to begin with, uh, that erodes trust. So being able to let folks know right up front, here's what it looks like to be eligible, actually help us build some of that, uh, cause they don't feel like, uh, someone in the bureaucracy is just putting them through the ringer for no reason. >>Um, now in regard to how do we get the chat bot out? I will say, uh, we have a, uh, dynamic it and leadership, uh, team at the highest level of County government who we have been already having conversations over the last year about what it meant to be smart government, uh, the department of social service and family services that I'm responsible for. We're already, uh, hands up first in line, you know, Guinea pigs volunteering to be on the front end of, uh, certain projects. So w we have primed ourselves for, for some of this readiness in that aspect. Um, but for citizen trust, um, the timeliness of application right now is the biggest element of trust. Uh, so I've applied I've I feel like I put my housing future in your hands. Are you going to deliver and having the ability for us to rapidly scale up? >>Uh, we typically have 120 staff in the department of social service that, that are adjudicating benefits for programs on daily basis. We've doubled that with temporary staff, uh, through some partnerships, uh, we're, we're gonna, as of next week, probably have more temporary per professional staff helping an adjudicator applications. No, do full-time County staff, because again, this rush to get the dollars out, out the door. So having a system where I can easily, uh, ramp on new users and manage them without having to be solely dependent upon an already, uh, overworked it staff who were trying to support 37 other departments in the County, um, around infrastructure needs has been greatly helpful. Sounds to me like a strong outcome focus and one that seems to work. Let's move on now to our audience questions. We're getting close to the end of our time. So let's jump into some questions from the audience. A number of you have been asking about getting copies of today's presentation within the next 48 hours. Government technology will provide all attendees with the link to the recording for your reference, or to share with colleagues. Well, let's go to our first question. So this is an interesting one. And Karen, this is for you did IBM work with other counties and States to provide digital engagement portals. >>We did Bob, uh, we've worked, um, so globally we've provided guidance on this. We work closely with New York city. They've been the integral part of the development also with our citizen engagement offering. Um, we work closely with the States. So we worked with New York city. Um, North Carolina was also another state who, um, improved their, uh, citizen engagement piece, bring up their Medicaid and snap, um, applications along with Medicaid. COVID testing along that. And I mentioned, um, the economic and social development in Canada as well. And we also work with the ministry of social development in Singapore. So a number of our customers had put up, uh, a global, uh, or sorry, a citizen engagement frontend. And during this timeframe, >>Very helpful. I don't know how much did you hear your mom provide you, but how much did it cost for initial deployment and what are the ongoing costs in other words, is this thing going to be sustainable over time? >>Yeah, absolutely. So total, uh, to date, we've spent about a $1.8 million on development implementations and licensure. A big chunk of that again has been the rapid extended of licensure, uh, for this program. Um, I think over a third of that is probably licensing because again, we need to get the dollars out and we need staff to do that and making the short term several hundred thousand dollar investment in a professional support staff and having them be able to work this portal is much cheaper than the long-term investment of bringing on a staff, printing a job, uh, during a financial difficulty that we're facing, uh, the single largest fiscal cliff let's get into that us history. Um, so it's not smart to create jobs that have a 30 year, one way to retirement, uh, inside our in unionized government environment here. So having this, the staff that would come on and do this and get out the door on these federal dollars was critical for us. Um, and there is a $800,000 a year, I believe so ongoing costs associated with licensure and, and the programming support. Uh, but once again, we're going to be moving, um, our traditional services into this digital front end. We'll be continuing this because we're, we're, we're facing, it took us, I think, six and a half, seven years to come back from the previous recession. Undoubtedly, take a little longer to get back >>From this one. Here's another interesting question, I guess really primarily Tim Tim was the solution on primarily on premise or in the cloud. >>So we'll, we've done a mix. Uh, the, and I'm starting a lot of feedbacks. I don't know if you all can hear that or not, but the, uh, I think we went on prem for, uh, some people because of the, uh, bridge into our service case manager system, which is on prem. So we did some management there. I do believe the chat bot piece of it though is in the cloud. So we're bringing it down to, from one system to the other. Uh, and, and part of that was a student negotiations and costs and worrying about what long-term is that we have a very stated goal of moving, uh, our Curam platform, which is on-prem, this is the backend. So how are we? We, we set our IBM Watson, uh, portal up, uh, and moving all of that on cloud, uh, because I mean, we've got, uh, a workforce who, uh, has the ability to retire at a very high rate over the next five years. >>And, uh, having 24 seven support in the cloud is, is as a, someone who would be called to respond to emergency situations like the is, is a much better Cod deal for, for myself and the citizen. So migrating, uh, and, um, our typical on-prem stuff up into the cloud, uh, as we continue on this, uh, evolution of what IBM Watson, uh, and the plug into our Curam, uh, system looks like Karen related question for another user is the portal provided with Clara County and others linked to other third-party backend office apps, or can it be, >>Yeah, the answer is it can be it's interoperable. So through APIs, uh, rest, uh, however, um, assistance that they need to be integrated with can definitely be integrated with, uh, like, uh, Tim mentioned, we, we went to the case management solution, but it can be integrated with other applications as well. >>Tim, did you use some other backend third party apps with yours? Uh, we did not. Uh, again, just for speed of getting, uh, this MVP solution out the door. Uh, now what we do with that on the go forward, it is going to look different and probably will include some, another practical question. Given the cares funding should be expended by December. Can this application even be employed at this late date? And you want to take a cut at that? Yeah, for us, uh, once again, we brought up earlier, um, the emergency solutions grants and the community development block grants, which have a Corona virus, uh, CV traunch, each one of those, and those have two to three year expenditure timeframes on them. Uh, so we were going to leverage those to keep this system and some of these programs going once again, that the housing needs, uh, will outstrip our capacity for years to come. >>I guess probably I should have said upfront Las Vegas has one of the worst affordable housing inventories in the nation. Uh, so we know we're going to be facing a housing issue, um, because of this for, for a long time. So we'll be using those two traunches of dollars, ESE, ESPs, uh, CV CDBG, CB funds, uh, in addition to dollars earmarked through some, uh, recreational marijuana license fees that have been dedicated to our homelessness. And when you consider this housing, uh, stability program was part of that homelessness prevention. That's our funding mix locally. Very helpful. So questions maybe for bolts for you on this one, you can probably also teach respond is the system has been set up helping the small business community. Um, this user's been canvassing and the general feeling is that small businesses have been left behind and they've been unable to access funds. What's your response on that? Karen, do you want to take that first? >>Um, yes. So in terms of, uh, the security and sorry. Um, but, uh, can you repeat the last part of that? I just missed the last part when you >>Behind it, but unable to access funds. >>Uh, yeah, so I think from a funding perspective, there's different types of, I think what Tim mentioned in terms of the cares funding, there was different types of funding that came out from a government perspective. Uh, I think there were also other grants and things that are coming out one, uh, that we're still looking at. And I think as we go into the new year, it'll be interesting to see, you know, what additional funding, um, hopefully is, is provided. Uh, but in terms of creativity, we've seen other creative ways that organizations come together to kind of, uh, help with the different agencies, to provide some, some guidance to the community, um, and helping to, uh, provide efforts and, uh, maybe looking at different ways of, um, providing, uh, some of the capabilities that the, either at the County or at the state level that they're able to leverage. But Tim happy to maybe have you chime in here too. >>Yeah. So I'll first start with my wheelhouse and I'll expand out to, to some of my partners. Uh, so the primary, small business, we knew the idea was a daily basis inside this realm is going to be landlords. Uh, so actually this afternoon, we're doing a town hall with folks to be able to roll out, uh, which they will go to our portal to find a corporate landlord program. Uh, so that I seem a landlord for Camille the application pack and on behalf of a hundred residents, rather than us having to adjudicate a hundred individual applications and melon a hundred checks. Uh, so that is because we were listening to that particular segment of the, uh, the business community. Now I know early on, we were, we were really hoping that the, the paycheck protection program federally would have, uh, been dispersed in a way that helped our local small businesses. >>Uh, more we did a, our economic development team did a round of small business supports through our cares act. Uh, our quarterly unfortunate was not open yet. It was just about 15, 20 days shy. So we use, uh, another traditional grant mechanism that we have in place to dedicate that. Uh, but on a go forward board, willing to Congress passes something over the next 30 days, um, that if there's a round two of cares or some other programs, we absolutely now have a tool that we know we can create a digital opening for individuals to come figure out if they're eligible or not for whatever program it is, the it housing, the it, uh, small business operations supports, uh, and it would apply through that process and in a very lightweight, so we're looking forward to how we can expand our footprint to help all of the needs that are present in our community. This leads to another question which may be our last one, but this is an interesting question. How can agencies use COVID-19 as a proof point providing a low cost configurable solutions that can scale across government. Karen, do you want to respond to that? And then Tim also, >>Thanks, Bob. So I believe like, you know, some of the things that we've said in terms of examples of how we were able to bring up the solution quicker, I definitely see that scaling as you go forward and trying to really, um, focus in on the needs and getting that MVP out the door. Uh, and then Tim alluded to this as well. A lot of the change management processes that went into re-imagining what these processes look like. I definitely see a additional, you know, growth mindset of how do we get better processes in place, or really focusing on the core processes so that we can really move the ball forward and continuing to go that path of delivering on a quicker path, uh, leveraging cloud, as we mentioned of, um, some, some of the capabilities around the chat bot and other things to really start to push, um, uh, the capabilities out to those citizens quicker and really reduce that timeline that we have to take on the backend side, um, that that would be our hope and goal, um, given, you know, sort of what we've been able to accomplish and hoping using that as a proof point of how we can do this for other types of, uh, either programs or other processes. >>Yeah, I think, um, the, you know, the tool has given us capability now there, whether we use local leaders leverage that to the fullest really becomes a coming upon us. So do we take a beat, uh, when we can catch our breath and then, you know, work through our executive leadership to say, look, here's all the ways you can use this tool. You've made an enterprise investment in. Um, and I know for us, uh, at Clark County, we've stood up, uh, enterprise, uh, kind of governance team where we can come and talk through all of our enterprise solutions, uh, encourage our other department head peers, uh, to, to examine how you might be able to use this. Is there a way that, um, you know, parks and rec might use this to better access their scholarship programs to make sure that children get into youth sports leagues and don't get left out, uh, because we know youth suicide on the rise and they need something positive to do when this pandemic is clear, I'm there for them to get out and do those things. >>So the possibilities really are out there. It really becomes, um, how do we mind those internally? And I know that being a part of listservs and, uh, you know, gov tech and all the magazines and things are out there to help us think about how do we better use our solutions, um, as well as our IBM partners who are always eager to say, Hey, have you seen how they're using this? Um, it is important for us to continue to keep our imaginations open, um, so that we continue to iterate through this process. Um, cause I, I would hate to see the culture of, um, iteration go away with this pandemic. >>Okay. We have time for one final question. We've already addressed this in part two, and this one is probably for you and that you've used the cares act to eliminate some of the procurement red tape that's shown up. Well, how do you somehow that's been very positive. How do you see that impacting you going forward? What happens when the red tape all comes back? >>Yeah, so I think I mentioned a little bit, uh, about that when some of the folks who are deemed non essential came back during our reopening phases and they're operating at the speed of prior business and red tape where we had all been on this, these green tape, fast tracks, uh, it, it was a bit of a organizational whiplash. Uh, but it, for us, we've had the conversation with executive management of like, we cannot let this get in the way of what our citizens need. So like keep that pressure on our folks to think differently. Don't and, uh, we've gone so far as to, uh, even, uh, maybe take it a step further and investigate what had been done in, in, in Canada. Some other places around, um, like, like going right from in a 48 hour period, going from a procurement statement through a proof of concept and doing purchasing on the backside, like how can we even get this even more streamlined so that we can get the things we need quickly, uh, because the citizens don't understand, wait, we're doing our best, uh, your number 3000 and queue on the phone line that that's not what they need to hear or want to hear during times of crisis. >>Very helpful. Well, I want to be respectful of our one hour commitment, so we'll have to wrap it up here in closing. I want to thank everyone for joining us for today's event and especially a big, thank you goes to Karen and Tim. You've done a really great job of answering a lot of questions and laying this out for us and a special thanks to our partners at IBM for enabling us to bring this worthwhile discussion to our audience. Thanks once again, and we look forward to seeing you at another government technology event,

>>Yeah. >>Welcome back for our last session of the day how to deliver career making business outcomes with Search and AI. So we're very lucky to be hearing from Canada. Canadian Tire, one of Canada's largest and most successful retailers, have been powered 4.5 1000 employees to maximize the value of data with self service insights. So today we're joining us. We have Yarrow Baturin, who is the manager of Merch analytics and planning to support at Canadian Tire and then also Andrea Frisk, who is the engagement manager manager for thoughts. What s O U R Andrea? Thanks so much for being here. And with >>that, >>I'll pass the mic to you guys. >>Thank you for having us. Um, already, I I think I'll start with an introduction off who I am, what I do. A Canadian entire on what Canadian pair is all about. So, as a manager of Merch analytics at Canadian Tire, I support merchant organization with reporting tools, and then be I platform to enable decision making on a day to day basis. What is? Canadian Tire's Canadian tire is one of the largest retailers in Canada. Um, serving Canadians with a number of lines of business spanning automotive fixing, living, playing and SNG departments. We have a number of banners, including sport check Marks Party City Phl that covers more than 1700 locations. So as an organization, we've got vast variety of different data, whether it's product or loyalty. Now, as the time goes on, the number of asks the number off data points. The complexity of the analysis has been increasing on banned traditional tools. Analytical tools such as Excel Microsoft Access do find job but start hitting their limitations. So we started on the journey of exploring what other B I platforms would be suitable for our needs. And the criteria that we thought about as we started on that journey is to make sure that we enable customization as well as the McCarthy ization of data. What does that mean? That means we wanted to ensure that each one of the end users have ability to create their own versions off the report while having consistency from the data standpoint, we also wanted Thio ensure that they're able to create there at hawks search queries and draw insights based on the desired business needs. As each one of our lines of business as each one of our departments is quite unique in their nature. And this is where thoughts about comes into play. Um, you checked off all the boxes? Um, as current customers, as potential customers, you will discover that this is the tool that allows that at hawks search ability within a matter of seconds and ability to visualize the information and create those curated pin boards for each one of the business units, depending on what the needs are. And now where? I guess well, Andrea will talk a little bit more about how we gained adoption, but the usage was like and how we, uh, implemented the tool successfully in the organization. >>Okay, so I actually used to work for Canadian tire on DSO. During that time, I helped Thio build training and engaging users to sort of really kick start our use cases. Andi, the ongoing process of adopting thought spot through Canadian Tire s 01 of the sort of reasons that we moved into using thought spot was there was a need Thio evolve, um, in order to see the wealth of data that we had coming in. So the existing reporting again. And this is this sort of standard thoughts bought fix is, um, it brings the data toe. Everyone on git makes it more accessible, so you get more out of your data. So we want to provide users with the ability to customize what they could see and personalized three information so that they could get their specific business requirements out of the data rather than relying on the weekly monthly quarterly reporting. That was all usually fairly generic eso without the ability to deep dive in. So this gave the users the agility thio optimize their campaigns, optimize product murder, urgency where products are or where there's maybe supply chain gaps. Andi just really bring this out for trillions of rose to become accessible. Thio the Canadian tire. That's what user base think. That's the slide. >>That's the slight, Um So as Andrea talked about the business use of the particular tool, let's talk a little bit about how we set it up and a wonderful journey of how it's evolved. So we first implemented 5.3 version of that spot on the Falcon server on we've been adding horsepower to it over time. Now mhm. What I want to stress is the importance off the very first, Data said. That goes into the tool toe. Actually engage the users and to gain the adoption and to make sure there is no argument whether the tool is accurate or not. So what we've started with is a key p I marked layer with all the major metrics that we have and all the available permutations and combinations off the dimensions, whether it's a calendar dimension, proud of dimension or, let's say, customer attribute now, as we started with that data set, we wanted to make sure that we're we have the ability to add and the dimensions right. So now, as we're implementing the tool, we're starting to add in more dimension tables to satisfy the needs off our clients if you want to call it that way as they want to evolve their analytics. So we started adding in some of the store attributes we started adding in some of the product attributes on when I refer to a product attributes, let's say, uh, it involves costs and involves prices involved in some of the strategic internal pieces that we're thinking about now as the comprehensive mark contains right now, in our instance, close to five billion records. This is where it becomes the one source of truth for people declaring information against right so as they go in, we also wanted to make sure when they Corey thought spot there, we're really Onley. According one source of data. One source of truth. It became apparent over time, obviously, that more metrics are needed. They might not be all set up in that particular mark. And that's when we went on the journey off implementing some of the new worksheets or some of the new data sets particularly focused on the four looking pieces. And uh, that's where it becomes important to say This is how you gain the interest and keep the interests of the public right. So you're not just implementing a number off data sets all at once and then letting the users be you're implementing pieces and stages. You're keeping the interest thio, the tool relevant. You're keeping, um, the needs of the public in mind. Now, as you can imagine on the Falcon server piece, um, adding in the horsepower capacity might become challenging the mawr. Billions of Rosie erratic eso were actually in the middle of transitioning our environment to azure in snowflake so that we can connect it. Thio embrace capability of thoughts cloud. And that's where I'm looking forward to that in 2021 I truly believe this will enable us Thio increase the speed off adoption Increase the speed of getting insights out of the tool and scale with regards Thio new data sets that we're thinking about implementing as we're continuing our thoughts about journey >>Okay, so how we drove adoption Thio 4500 plus users eso When we first started Thio approach our use case with the merchants within Canadian Tire We had meetings with these users with who are used place is gonna be with and sort of found out. What are they searching for, Where they typically looking at what existing reports are available for them. Andi kind of sought out to like, What are those things where you're pulling this on your own or someone else's pulling this data because it's not accessible yet And we really use that as our foundation to determine one what data we needed to initially bring into the system but also to sort of create those launchpad pin boards that had the base information that the users we're gonna need so that we could twofold, make it easy for them, toe adopt into the tool and also quickly start Thio, deactivate or discontinue those reports. And just like these air now only available in thought spot because with the sort of formatting within thought spot around dates, it's really easy to make this year's report last year report etcetera. Just have everything roll over every month or a recorder s. So that was kind of some of the pre work foundation when we originally did it. But really, it's been a lot of training, a lot of training. So we conducted ah, lot of in person training, obviously pre co vid eso. We've started to train the group that we targeted, which was the merchants and all of the like, surrounding support groups. Eso we had planners going in and training as well, so that everyone who was really closely connected to the merchants I had an idea of what thoughts about what was and how to use it and where the reports were, and so we just sort of rolled it out that way, and then it started to fly like wildfire. Eso the merchants start to engage with supply chain to have conversations, or the merchants were engaging with the vendors to sort of have negotiations about pricing. And they're creating these reports and getting the access to the information so quickly, and they're sharing it out that we had other groups just coming to us asking, How do I get into thoughts about how can I get in on DSO on top of those groups, we also sought out other heavy analytics groups such a supply chain where we felt like they could have the same benefits if they on boarded into thought spot with their data as well on Ben. Just continuing to evolve the training roll out. Um, you know, we continued to engage with the users, >>so >>we had a newsletter briefly Thio, sort of just keep informing users of the new data coming in or when we actually upgraded our system. So the here are the new features that you'll start seeing. We did virtual trainings and maintaining an F A Q document with the incoming questions from the users, and then eventually evolved into a self guided learning so that users that were coming to a group, or maybe we've already done a full rollout could come in and have the opportunity to learn how to use thought spot, have examples that were relevant to the business and really get started. Eso then each use case sort of after our initial started to build into a formula of the things that we needed to have. So you need to understand it. Having SMEs ready and having the database Onda worksheets built out sort of became the step by step path to drive adoption. Um, from an implementation timeline, I think they're saying, Took about two months and about half of that waas Kenny entire figuring out how figuring out our security, how to get the data in on, Do we need the time to set up the environment and get on Falcon? So then, after that initial two months, then each use case that we come through. Generally, we've got users trained and SMEs set up within about 2 to 3 weeks after the data is ingested. It's not obviously, once snowflakes set up on the data starts to get into that and the data feeds in, then you're really just looking at the 2 to 3 weeks because the data is easily connected in, >>um, no. All right, let's talk about some of the use cases. So we started with what data we've implemented. Andrea touched upon what Use a training look like what the back curate that piece wants. Now let's talk a little bit about use cases and how we actually leverage thoughts bought together the insights. So the very first one is ultimately the benefit of the tool to the entire organization. Israel Time insights. To reiterate what Andrea said, we first implemented the tool with our buyers. They're the nucleus of any retail organization as they work with everybody within the company and as the buyer's eyes, Their responsibility to ensure both the procurement and the sales channel, um, stays afloat at the end of the day, right? So they need information on a regular basis. They needed fast. They needed timely, and they needed in a fashion that they choose to digest it. It right? Not every business is the same. Not every individual is the same. They consume digest, analyze information differently. And that's what that's what allows you to dio whether it's the search, whether it's a customized onboard, please now supply chain unexpected things. As Andrea mentioned Irish work a lot of supply chain. What is the goal of supply chain to receive product and to be able to ship that product to the stores Now, as our organization has been growing and is doing extremely well, we've actually published Q three results recently. Um, the aspect off prioritization at D C level becomes very important, And what drives some of that prioritization is the analysis around what the upcoming sales would be for specific products for specific categories. And that's where again thoughts. But is one of the tools that we've utilized recently to set our prioritization logic from both inbound and outbound us. It's right because it gives you most recent results. It gives you most granular results, depending on the business problem that you're trying to tackle. Now let's chat a little bit about covert 19 response, because this one is an extremely interesting case as a pandemic hit back in March. Um, as you can imagine, the everyday life a Canadian entire became as business unusual is our executives referred to it under business unusual. This speed and the intensity of the insights and the analytics has grown exponentially. And the speed and the intensity of the insights is driven by the fact that we were trying Thio ensure that we have the right selection of products for our Canadian customers because that's ultimately bread and butter off all of the retailers is the customers, right? So thoughts bought allowed us to have early trends off both sales and inventory patterns, where, whether we were stalking out of some of the products in specific stories of provinces, whether we saw some of the upload off different lines of business, depending on the region, ality right as pandemic hit, for example, um, gym's closed restaurants closed. So as Canadian pack carries a wide variety of different lines of business, we actually offer a wide selection of exercise equipment and accessories, cycling products as well as the kitchen appliances and kitchen accessories pieces. Right? So all of those items started growing exponentially and in certain areas more than others. And this is where thoughts about comes into play. A typical analysis on what the region ality of the sales has been over the last couple of days, which is lifetime and pandemic terms, um, could have taken days weeks for analysts to ultimately cobbled together an Excel spreadsheet. Meanwhile, it can take a couple of seconds for 12 Korean tosspot set up a PIN board that can be shared through a wide variety of individuals rather than fording that one Excel spreadsheet that gets manipulated every single time. And then you don't get the right inside. So from again merch supply chain covert response aspect of things. That spot has been one of those blessings and one of those amazing tools to utilize and improve the speed off insights, improved the speed of analytics and improve the speed of decision making that's ultimately impacting, then consumer at the store level. So Andrea talked about 4500 users that we have that number of school. But what I owe the recently like to focus on, uh, Andrew and I laughing because I think the last time we've spoken at a larger forum with the fastball community, I think we had only 500 users. That was in the beginning >>of the year in in February, we were aiming to have like 1000 >>exactly. So mission accomplished. So we've got 4500 employees now. Everybody asked me, Yeah, that's a big number, but how many times do people actually log in on a weekly or daily basis? I'm or interested in that statistic? So lately, um, we've had more than 400 users on the weekly basis. What's what's been cool lately is, uh, the exponential growth off ad hoc ways. So throughout October, we've reached a 75,000 ad hoc ways in our system and about 13,000 PIN board views. So why is that's that's significant? We started off, I would say, in January of 2020 when Andrea refers to it, I think we started off with about 40 45,000 ad hoc worries a month. So again, that was cool. But at the end of the day, we were able to thio double that amount as more people migrate to act hawk searches from PIN board views, and that's that's a tremendous phenomena, because that's what that's about is all about. So I touched upon a little bit about exercise and cycling. So these are our quarterly results for Q two, um, that have showed tremendous growth that we did not plan for, that we were able to achieve with, ultimately the individuals who work throughout the organization, whether it's the merch organization or whether it's the supply chain side of the business. But coming together and utilizing a B I platform by tools such a hot spot, we can see triple digit growth results. Eso What's next for us users at Hawks searches? That's fantastic. I would still like to get to more than 1200 people on the weekly basis. The cool number to me is if all of our lifetime users were you were getting into the tool on a weekly basis. That would be cool. And what's proven to be true is ultimately the only way to achieve it is to keep surprising and delighting them and your surprising and delighting them with the functionality of the tool. With more of the relevant content and ultimately data adding in more data, um, is again possible through ET else, and it's possible through pulling that information manually. But it's expensive, expensive not from the sense of monetary value, but it's expensive from the size time, all of those aspects of things So what I'm looking forward to is migrating our platform to azure in snowflake and being able thio scale our insights accordingly. Toe adding more data to Adam or incites more, uh, more individual worksheets and data sets for people to Korea against helps the each one of the individuals learn. Get some of the insights. Helps my team in particular be, well, more well versed in the data that we have existing throughout the organization. Um, and then now Andrea, in touch upon how we scale it further and and how each one of the individuals can become better with this wonderful >>Yeah, soas used a zero mentioned theater hawk searches going up. It's sort of it's a little internal victory because our starting platform had really been thio build the pin boards to replicate what the users were already expecting. So that was sort of how we easily got people in. And then we just cut off the tap Thio, whatever the previous report waas. So it gave them away. Thio get into the tool and understand the information. So now that they're using ad hoc really means they understand the tool. Um, then they they have the data literacy Thio access the information and use it how they need. So that's it's a really cool piece. Um, that worked on for Canadian tire. A very report oriented and heavy organization. So it was a good starting platforms. So seeing those ad hoc searches go up is great. Um, one of the ways that we sort of scaled out of our initial group and I kind of mentioned this earlier I sort of stepped on my own toes here. Um is that once it was a proven success with the merchants and it started to spread through word of mouth and we sought out the analyst teams. Um, we really just kept sort of driving the insights, finding the data and learning more about the pieces of the business. As you would like to think he knows everything about everything. He only knows what he knows. Eso You have to continue to cultivate the internal champions. Um Thio really keep growing the adoption eso find this means that air excited about the possibility of using thought spot and what they can do with it. You need to find those people because they're the ones who are going to be excited to have this rapid access to the information and also to just be able to quickly spend less time telling a user had access it in thought spot. Then they would running the report because euro mentioned we basically hit a curiosity tax, right? You you didn't want to search for things or you didn't want to ask questions of the data because it was so conversed. Um, it was took too much time to get the data. And if you didn't know exactly what you were looking for, it was worse. So, you know, you wouldn't run a query and be like, Oh, that's interesting. Let me let me now run another query of all that information to get more data. Just not. It's not time effective or resource effective. Actually, at the point, eso scaling the adoption is really cultivating those people who are really into it as well. Um, from a personal development perspective, sort of as a user, I mean, one who doesn't like being smartest person in the room on bought spot sort of provides that possibility. Andi, it makes it easier for you to get recognized for delivering results on Dahlia ble insights and sort of driving the business forward. So you know, B b that all star be the Trailblazer with all the answers, and then you can just sort of find out what really like helping the organization realized the power of thought spot on, baby. Make it into a career. >>Amazing. I love love that you've joined us, Andrea. Such a such an amazing create trajectory. No bias that all of my s o heaps of great information there. Thank you both. So much for sharing your story on driving such amazing adoption and the impact that you've been able to make a T organization through. That we've got a couple of minutes remaining. So just enough time for questions. Eso Andrea. Our first questions for you from your experience. What is one thing you would recommend to new thoughts about users? >>Um, yeah, I would say Be curious and creative. Um, there's one phrase that we used a lot in training, which was just mess around in the tool. Um, it's sort of became a catchphrase. It is really true. Just just try and use it. You can't break. It s Oh, just just play around. Try it you're only limitation of what you're gonna find is your own creativity. Um, and the last thing I would say is don't get trapped by trying to replicate things. Is that exactly as they were? B, this is how we've always done it. Isin necessarily The the best move on day isn't necessarily gonna find new insights. Right. So the change forces you thio look at things from a different perspective on defined. Find new value in the data. >>Yeah, absolutely. Sage advice there. Andan another one here for Yaro. So I guess our theme for beyond this year is analytics meets Cloud Open for everyone. So, in your experience, what does What does that mean for you? >>Wonderful question. Yeah. Listen, Angela Okay, so to me, in short, uh, means scale and it means turning Yes. Sorry. No, into a yes. Uh, no, I'm gonna elaborate. Is interest is laughing at me a little bit. That's right. >>I can talk >>Fancy Two. Okay, So scale from the scale perspective Cloud a zai touched upon Throw our conversation on our presentation cloud enables your ability Thio store have more data, have access to more data without necessarily employing a number off PTL developers and going toe a number of security aspect of things in different data sources now turning a no into a yes. What does that mean with more data with more scalability? Um, the analytics possibilities become infinite throughout my career at Canadian Tire. Other organizations, if you don't necessarily have access thio data or you do not have the necessary granularity, you always tell individuals No, it's not possible. I'm not able to deliver that result. And quite often that becomes the norm, saying no becomes the norm. And I think what we're all striving towards here on this call Aziz part the conference is turning that no one say yes on then making a yes a new, uh, standard a new form. Um, as we have more access to the data, more access to the insights. So that would be my answer. >>Love it. Amazing. Well, that kind of brings in into this session. So thank you, everyone for joining us today on did wrap up this dream. Don't miss the upcoming product roadmap eso We'll be sticking around to speak thio some of the speakers you heard earlier today and I'll make the experts round table, and you can absolutely continue the conversation with this life. Q. On Q and A So you've got an opportunity here to ask questions that maybe keep you up at night. Perhaps, but yet stay tuned for the meat. The experts secrets to scaling analytics adoption after the product roadmap session. Thanks everyone. And thank you again for joining us. Guys. Appreciate it. >>Thank you. Thanks. Thanks.

>>from >>around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent >>2020 sponsored >>by Intel, AWS and our community >>partners. >>Hi. And welcome to the cubes coverage of AWS reinvent 2020. I'm your host, Justin Warren. And today I am joined by two lovely gentlemen. We have Brian Cahill from a company called Frog Slur, which is interesting. And we also have Chad Kenny from Clooney. Oh, gentlemen, welcome to AWS reinvent 2020 Chad, It's bean about what A year since I think we last spoke at at reinvent last year. Why don't you catch us up on what's been happening in the last year of the Korean Times >>s? Um we're excited to be here. Justin, thanks so much for the introduction and hosting us. So it's been an exciting action back here. I will say we've had a bunch of new innovations. I think last time we talked, we were just getting our first native solution inside of AWS for EBS. And since then we've evolved the dissolution dramatically. Claudio is ah, secure backup is a service offering for the enterprise, and this allowed us to be able to scale from just EBS into being the industry's first platform to go across public, private and SAS all in one service, >>and >>we innovated within AWS a ton. So we expanded from CBS Thio, Easy to and RDS. We brought in one of the most native services Outside of snapshots. We kind of progress the enterprise from the traditional snapshot primitive into a true enterprise class Back up on built in a time series Data Lake that allows, you know, enterprises to decouple their data from the infrastructure and really be able to provide tons of value into the future. So it's an exciting time for us. Toe, you know, really bring new innovative solutions to the market. >>That's an impressive amount of work given whatever else has been going on in the last 12 months, Teoh be able to ship that much stuff. You've been really, really busy. Um, brought Brian on now. Brian Frog Slayer. Tell me. Tell me a bit about the background for the name of the company they >>frogs layer. The name actually came from a initial founder who, you know, was trying to protect the animals, wanted to take care of nature and stuff and actually stepped on frog. So you got nicknamed by his buddies frogs here and that, then became the company name. >>So tell us about frogs layer. What is it that and your role there. What is it the Frog Slayer does? And what's your role there? >>Frogs there does business consulting. And then we developed custom software star goals to help businesses get past ah, hurdle. So a growth business that's that's kind of stuck make them more efficient, more productive thing kind of move to the next level. And my role here is the head of I t. That custom software rebuild we host for our clients. And so we try to offer to them is a SAS solution. So it's not only a custom software, but it's kind of offered a SAS solution them to consume. >>Terrific. So >>how long has >>the relationship with Clooney I've been going on? >>It's been about four months now, >>all right. And how did you get introduced Thio chat on the team in Colombia? >>Um, we started with AWS writing our own backup scripts and as we started to move more of their past services like RDS and then RDS went to serve Earless and Aurora the You just have to keep upgrading and changing and tweaking your scripts. And so we started looking round to say, Is there, uh is there a software we could use instead of doing this ourselves? And so through a bar, we got connected with Clooney? Oh, we're checking out a whole bunch of solutions. And most of them were snapshot managers just using the a p i s to do the same things we were doing. Whereas Clooney I was doing it totally differently where they would actually take a snapshot and then rehydrate it, take that data and then make it more like a traditional backup where you could d duplicate it and save on costs and stuff. >>Right? Okay, so, Chad, is that something that you've been? Is that one of the many features that you've added in the last 12 months? Or is this something that a little more fundamental to the way Columbia works? It's >>very fundamental. I think what we're doing is both doing efficiencies around the data itself. So do you do compression and, of course, security around encryption. But we ingest the data index and catalog it on, then make it so that customers could get fine grained granularity for how they restore even down to the database record. And so one of the big things that we've seen, especially in Cloud First customers such as frogs Layer is they're really trying to use either the native tools to start with or build your own type. Models on the costs increased dramatically. The complexity of not having a catalog and index make restores incredibly hard. Andi. It just becomes, ah, much more painful model of hidden costs, left and right. And so what we wanted to do was really provide unique simplicity to be able to protect all of the AWS accounts and even all of the data assets across clouds in one single pane of glass and give a user experience that was dramatically different than having to run very scripts or build your own or have a tool on prim and have a different tool for this cloud versus another cloud. And by having this consolidated index obviously drive a ton of value around leverage from the data, >>Hmm, >>interesting. So, Brian, you mentioned that this is your relationship with Colombia has Bean only about sort of four months that sort of smack in the middle of the pandemic that's been going on here was Was that a trigger for you looking at alternate options? Or were Or is this something that you've been planning for a while? >>No. This has been on a road map for a little while. Um, just as we start using more AWS services and trying to figure out how do we scale what we're doing? Um, we're looking for Mormon Enterprise Backup. But then, as we looked around most the backup solutions, you end up hosting the software upgrade in the software and maintaining things on. >>Have you noticed a major change since you've been using Colombia? >>Yes, What Cuneo offered was the ability to because it's a fast solution. It's a There's an air gap between us and the backup, so I'm not hosting the backups or the data. It's in a separate account, and I can't even delete it. So there's kind of a protection level that someone who are and can't accidentally delete the stuff we're backing up >>right? And one thing that I've noticed is in the news a lot more over the last couple of days. But it's certainly been hitting a lot this year is the idea of ransomware. So a lot of customers that certainly that I speak to have been quite concerned that what's going on with that? So how are you Brian addressing that within your organization? Do you feel comfortable that you're well protected and what else are you looking at? But you're trying to protect yourselves from >>right when it comes to ransom, where we try to have our client data in such a way that no one person can access or delete all of it. And so that's where we initially had separate AWS accounts for every client and with Columbia we now have Colonial maintains that separation. So they're keeping that air gap for us. And then, you know, we're doing our own stuff internally. Just make sure we don't get something. But the backups, including our kind of that second step for say something, gets past all of our safeguards. We've got another safeguard in place that >>sounds pretty prudent. So, Chad, is that is that something that you're hearing from a lot of customers? The need for this separation of powers within the system? >>Yeah, it's coming up quite often. And I think one of the big challenges here is to deliver an air gap solution with other types of data protection products. Whether it's on primer in the cloud have a ton of complexity to it, whether you're buying a separate appliance and you have to create a network air gap or whether you're actually replicating from one AWS account into another AWS account, the cost just double. And so what we built in was a system that not only is immutable, but as Brian mentioned, there's no ability to actually delete the data because the timeto live for the data that's persisted is defined by the policy. And so if a bad actor was to get into the environment, there's no way that they could potentially go into our system and actually delete anything. But if you look at like AWS as an example, if most customers they're storing snapshots inside their account as a hole on theirs, vulnerabilities even beyond, you know, ran somewhere and just on accident or a bad actor even inside the environment that's not even ran somewhere. And so protecting that is one of the key capabilities of the platform where We're outside of the service outside of the cloud, in many cases to protect the customer's data on make sure that they can restore it to any account in the event that even a bad actor gets access to it. Yeah. So, Brian, one thing >>that I like to ask customers about, particularly and cloud services is they've changed the way that we do things. And why Why we started using cloud is often not what we're actually using it for today. So with respect to Cuneo and your services that you're running in cloud, what's something that you've noticed that you're now doing? That surprises you? One of those added bonus is that you weren't really expecting. Have you seen anything like that? As you've managed Thio to start using Clooney Oh, that did everything that you wanted it to do. And now you're finding there's these new opportunities. >>Yeah. One of the big advantages of Colombia was when we took snapshots and replicated them out of the source AWS account. It's like in the source account. There was d duplication enabled. Once you replicated to another AWS account, it re hydrates the snapshot. So everyone takes up the full amount of space And to start hitting this like, how much data do I retain versus like, Oh, this is really expensive. I should like, you know, lower my retention. And we just that totally went away with Clooney. Oh, and then as far as the cloud is, the whole what's cool is that they're kind of more past services. So rds where I don't maintain, you know, patches on the O. S or on the sequel or yours, um, application service where you're not maintaining the OS. That's kind of moving at the next level up faras less less that you're maintaining your more maintaining your code in your application, >>right? And how important is the cloud native capability of Columbia? There's plenty of backup solutions around, and we've We've had them for many years because data protection is not a new idea. Ah, lot of a lot of what other side now cloud native. We try to put things into the cloud first. How important is it? Toe have something which understands cloud native >>and it basically means they're totally aware of what we're doing. And so they're not trying to take an old solution and make it fit in the cloud. They built it for the cloud from the ground up. So when you get in there user interface, there's not all of these old buttons and knobs and stuff. It's very simple. It's a policy, a tag. And then inside the account, the tag grabs objects. So they've made a very simple user interface that's saves a lot of time on implementation. >>Excellent. What are some of the things that you're looking to do in the future now that you've better things in and you've now got four months of solid experience with the product? What are you anticipating that you're going to be doing next? >>Um, we're excited about We're starting. But some are customers in a jurors cloud with Clooney was developing capabilities for that, and then Colombia is also working on capabilities for some of our business applications. So the idea of having all of our kind of backups in one place and less separate buckets you've got to go manages exciting. >>Yes, so Chad multi cloud hybrid cloud. Their words sort of called to be the controversy over the over the years. It does certainly sound like a lot of customers they're using, or at least exploring multiple, different options on Certainly for yourselves, you'll have customers who exist in in one cloud and others that will be in a different one. So how are you addressing the idea of of hybrid cloud and multi cloud? >>Great question. So our belief is that data is going to disperse itself Mawr and Mawr, especially as time goes on and there's multiple faces, this kind of cloud adoption that we see we see kind of, you know, the initial lift into Public Cloud, which kind of created that first hybrid example than theirs. You know the optimization within the clouds, so they're looking for cost reduction and operational izing. And then it's kind of like looking at ways of how doe I utilize different clouds for different things that may be mawr operationalized arm or optimized than others. And so we really believe in this world of creating a single platform or fabric that goes and expands across all clouds, consolidates and index and catalog into one view for the end user, and allows them to be able to push data to any cloud that they need to longer term. And at the same time, protect it. The fun part about migrations is yeah, you could move data, but when you're protecting it at the same time to it allows you to actually keep your production up and running, restore a dev environment somewhere else to play around with it and do it in multiple different potential clouds on then have that initial data that's still fully protected in your environment. And so I'd say that the protection side is a really cool on. The second one is Brian mentioned was the whole Data Lake concept that sits behind where we decouple the data from the infrastructure and with past services. This is incredibly important because, let's say, a year and a half from now, the database engines not even supported with the snapshot that you have left over in your account you've been retaining, you've not got to go through the process of upgrading and getting it up to the rev toe actually even get it working in our world, we create logical backups of those data sets, and they're instantaneously available for direct query access, even right in the gooey. And so now this decoupling of infrastructure brings significant value, right now but into the future. This opens up opportunities to be able to do et al pipelines and actually levers the data well beyond back up into other use cases, >>sort of to finish up looking forward. Always, like Thio have a bit of a view of what the future future holds. Its one of my favorite parts of being at reinvent is we get to see the new technology and and what the possibilities are for for what we could use. It takes something, take it home, have a bit of a play with it and and see what we could do for next year. So but if you Brian, we'll start with you. What are you looking forward to in 2021? What do your your future plans? >>Looking forward to migrating mawr of our stuff toe platform as a service offerings where we're taking advantage of the fact that the cloud has built some of the base layers and we could just build on top of that and then the second one that's exciting is the scalability. So with a B, A s, a server lists and the other land and different things that they're running out where we don't need to run physically. See two instances, air always on databases, but things that can scale up and down based on our client workload. That's just exciting as far as our infrastructure and and just the ability for cost savings, but also that just just in time, scaling for our customer demand >>and chad yourselves at Columbia What what can we Can you give us a hint of what we we might see in 2021 from Clooney? Oh, >>yes. So the first thing I'd say that I'm most excited about any New Year is just seeing the advantages customers get with the platform, right? Like we did a lot of innovation during this time. I'd say Cove, it had, you know, some benefits and some downsides from just company growth and, you know, not being close together and having that feeling. But we innovated incredibly quickly, and we were heads down and highly efficient, and eso I'm excited about really showcasing a lot of the innovation that we built during this year, and I think our customers are moving to the cloud faster than ever. And so I'm excited toe to see a lot of that. What you'll see from us is more and more innovation outside of just, you know, the traditional realm. Changing the user experience dramatically with new innovations, which sounds kind of broad. But think of it as creating more and more of that fabric. We're going to get into new public clouds. We're going to get into new SAS services. We're going to expand the user experience in the core platform for recover ability, for security, for enabling easy work flows for various different use cases. And so I'm excited about taking the data and really leveraging it into multiple different use cases outside of data protection on into the future. >>Well, it sounds like we have a lot to look forward to from Cuneo. I I personally look forward to hearing more about it. Hopefully we get to catch up. Ah, little bit earlier, Not not quite. Wait a full 12 months between reinvents, but if not, we'll definitely be seeing you again next year and and hearing about all of the new innovations that you've managed to come up with. You've got 12 months. There's plenty of time. Yeah, definitely Awesome. Sorry. Thank you very much. Brian Brian Kale from Frogs Layer and Pritchard, Kenny from Clooney. Oh, did my guest today. I've been Justin Warren for the Cube and all of our coverage here for AWS reinvent 2020. Do check out all the rest of the videos on. We will see you next time. >>Take care, Yeah.

>>Around the globe presenting accelerating automation with Deb brought to you by Cisco >>We're back. This is Dave Vellante and TKK Anini is here. He's a distinguished engineer at Cisco TK, my friend. Good to see you again. >>How are you? >>Good. I mean, you and I were in Barcelona in January and, you know, we knew we saw this thing coming, but we didn't see it coming this way. Did we? >>No, that no one did, but yeah, it, uh, that was right before everything happened. >>Well, it's weird. Right? I mean, we were, you know, we, we, it was in the back of our minds in January, we sort of had Barcelona's hasn't really been hit yet. It looked like it was really isolated in China, but, uh, but wow, what a change and I guess, I guess I'd say I'd start with the, we're seeing really a secular change in, in your space and security identity, access management, cloud security, endpoint security. I mean, all of a sudden these things have exploded as the work from home pivot has occurred. Uh, and, and it feels like these changes are permanent or semi-permanent what are you seeing out there? >>Yeah, I don't, I don't think anybody thinks the world's going to go back the way it was. Um, to some degree it's, it's changed forever. Um, you know, I, I, I do a lot of my work remotely. Um, and, and so, you know, being a remote worker, isn't such a big deal for me, but for some, it was a huge impact. And like I said, you know, um, remote work, remote education, you know, everybody's on the opposite side of a computer. And so the digital infrastructure has just become a lot more important to protect. And the integrity of it essentially is almost our own integrity these days. >>Yeah. And when you see that, you know, that work from home pivot, I mean, you know, our estimates are, are along with our partner DTR about 16% of the workforce was at home working from home prior to COVID and now it's, you know, North of 70% plus, and that's going to come down maybe a little bit over the next, next six months. We'll see what happens with the fall surge, but what people essentially accept, expect that to, you know, at least double that 16%, you know, going forward indefinitely. So what does that, what kind of pressure does that put on the security infrastructure and how, how organizations are approaching security? >>Yeah, I just think, uh, from a mindset standpoint, you know, what was optional, uh, maybe, um, last year, uh, is no longer optional and I don't think it's going to go back. Um, I think, I think a lot of people, uh, have changed the way, you know, they live and the way they work. Um, and they're doing it in ways, hopefully that, you know, in some cases, uh, yield more productivity, um, again, um, you know, usually with technology that's severely effective, it doesn't pick sides. So the security slant to it is it frankly works just as well for the bad guys. And so that's, that's the balance we need to keep, which is we need to be extra diligent, uh, on how we go about securing infrastructure, uh, how we go about securing even our social channels, because remember all our social channels now are digital. So that's, that's become the new norm. >>No, you've helped me understand over the years. I remember a line you shared with me in the cube one time is that the adversary is highly capable, is sort of the phrase that you used. And, and essentially the way you describe it, as you know, your job as a security practitioner is to decrease their, the bad guy's return on investment, you know, increase their costs, increase the numerator. But as, as work shifts from home, I'm in my house, you know, my wifi in my, you know, router with my dog's name is the password. You know, it's much, much harder for me to, to increase that denominator at home. So can you help? >>Yeah. I mean, it's, it is, it is truly, um, when you think, when you get into the mind of the adversary and, and, uh, you know, the cyber crime out there, they're honestly just like any other business they're trying to, you know, operate with high margin. And so if you can get there, if you can get in there and erode their margin, they'll frankly go find something else to do. Um, and, and again, you know, you know, the shift we experience day to day is it's not just our kids are online in school and, uh, our work is online, but all the groceries we order, um, you know, this Thanksgiving and holiday season, uh, a lot more online shopping is going to take place. So, you know, everything's gone digital. And so the question is, you know, how, how do we up our game there so that, um, we can go about our business, uh, effectively and make it very expensive for the adversary to operate, uh, and take care of their business. Cause it's nasty stuff. >>I want to ask you about automation, you know, generally, and then specifically how it applies to security. So we, I mean, we certainly saw the ascendancy of the hyperscalers and of course they really attacked the it labor problem. We learned a lot from that and an it organizations have applied much of that thinking. And the it's critical at scale. I mean, you just can't scale humans at the pace, the technology scales today, how does that apply to security and specifically, how is automation affecting a security? >>Yeah, it's, it's, it's the topic these days. Um, you know, businesses, I think, realize that they can't continue to grow at human scale. And so the reason why automation and things like AI and machine learning have a lot of value is because everyone's trying to expand, uh, and operate at machine scale. Now, I mean that for, for businesses, I mean that for, you know, education and everything else now, so are the adversaries, right? So it's expensive for them to operate at Cuban scale and they are going to machine scale, going to machine scale, uh, a necessity is that you're going to have to harness some level of automation, have the machines, uh, work on your behalf, have the machines carry your intent. Um, and when you do that, um, you can do it safely or you could do it dangerously. And that that's really kind of your choice. Um, you know, just because you can automate something doesn't mean you should, um, you, you wanna make sure that frankly, the adversary can't get in there and use that automation on their behalf. So it's, it's a tricky thing because, you know, if when you take the phrase, you know, uh, how do we, how do we automate security? Well, you actually have to take care of, of securing the automation first. >>Yeah. We talked about this in Barcelona, where you were explaining that, you know, the, the bad guys, the adversaries are essentially, you know, weaponizing using your own tooling, which makes them appear safe because it's, they're hiding in plain sight, right? >>Yeah. Well, there's, they're clever, uh, giving them that, um, you know, there's this phrase that they, they always talk about called living off the land. Um, there's no sense in them coming into your network and bringing their tools and, uh, and being detective, you know, if they can use the tools that's already there, then they have, uh, a higher degree of, of evading, uh, your protection. If they can pose as Alice or Bob, who's already been credentialed and move around your network, then they're moving around the network as Alice or Bob. They're not marked as the adversary. So again, you know, having the detection methods available to find their behavioral anomalies and things like that become a paramount, but it also you having the automation to contain them, to eradicate them, to, you know, minimize their effectiveness, um, without it, I mean, ideally without human interaction, cause you, you just, can you move faster, you move quicker. Um, and I see that with an asterisk because, um, if done wrong, frankly, um, you're just making their job more effective. >>I wonder if we could talk about the market a little bit, uh, it's I'm in the security space, cybersecurity 80 plus billion, which by the way, is just a little infant testable component of our GDP. So we're not spending nearly enough to protect that, that massive, uh, GDP, but guys, I wonder if you could bring up the chart because when you talk to CSOs and you ask them, what's your, what's your biggest challenge? They'll say lack of talent. And, and so what this chart shows is from ETR, our, our, our survey partner and on the vertical axis is net score. And that's an indication of spending momentum on the horizontal axis is market share, which is a measure of presence, a pervasiveness, if you will, inside the data sets. And so there's a couple of key points here. I wanted to put forth to our audience and then get your reactions. >>So you can see Cisco, I highlighted in red Cisco's business and security is very, very strong. We see it every quarter. It's a growth area that Chuck Robbins talks about on the, on the conference call. And so you can see on the horizontal axis, you've got a big presence in the data set. I mean, Microsoft is out there, but they're everywhere, but you're right there, uh, in that, in that dataset. And then you've got for such a large presence, you've got a lot of momentum in the marketplace, so that's very impressive. But the other point here is you've got this huge buffet of options. There's just a zillion vendors here. And that just adds to the complexity. This is of course only a subset of what's in the security space. You know, the people who answered for the survey. So my question is how can Cisco help simplify this picture? Is it automation? Is it, you know, you guys have done some really interesting tuck in acquisitions and you're bringing that integration together. Can you talk about that a little bit? >>Yeah. I mean, that's an impressive chart. I mean, when you look to the left there it's, um, I had a customer tell me once that, you know, I, I came to this trade show looking for transportation and these people are trying to sell me car parts. Um, that's the frustration customers have, you know, and I think what Cisco has done really well is to really focus on outcomes. Um, what is the customer outcome? Cause ultimately that's, that is what the customer wants. You know, there might be a few steps to get to that outcome, but the closest you can closer, you can get to delivering outcomes for the customer, the better you are. And I think, I think security in general has just year over year been just written with, um, you need to be an expert. Um, you need to buy all these parts and put it together yourself. And I think, I think those days are behind us, but particularly as, as security becomes more pervasive and we're, you know, we're selling to the business, we're not selling to the, you know, t-shirt wearing hacker anymore. >>Yeah. So, well, well, how does cloud fit in here? Because I think there's a lot of misconceptions about cloud people that God put my data in the cloud I'm safe, but you know, of course we know it's a shared responsibility model. So I'm interested in your, your thoughts on that. Is it really, is it a sense of complacency? A lot of the cloud vendors, by the way, say, Oh, the state of security is great in the cloud. Whereas many of us out there saying, wow, it's, it's not so great. Uh, so what, what are your thoughts on that, that whole narrative and what Cisco's play in cloud? >>I think cloud, um, when you look at the services that are delivered via the cloud, you see that exact pattern, which is you see customers paying for the outcome or as close to the outcome as possible. Um, you know, no data center required, no distract required, you just get storage, you know, it's, it's, it's all of those things that are again, closer to the outcome. I think the thing that interests me about cloud two is it's really been, it's really punctuated the way we go about building systems. Um, again at machine scale. So, you know, before, when I write code and I think about, Oh, what computers are gonna run on or, you know, what servers are going to is you're going to run on those. Those thoughts never crossed my mind anymore. You know, I'm modeling the intent of what the service should do and the machines then figure it out. So, you know, for instance, on Tuesday, if the entire internet shows up, uh, the, the system works without fail. And if on Wednesday, if only North America shows up, you know, so, but, but, but there's no way you could staff that, right. There's just no human scale approach that gets you there. And that's, that's the beauty of all of this cloud stuff is, um, it really is, uh, the next level of how we do computer science. >>So you're talking about infrastructure as code and that applies to security as code. That's what, you know, dev net is really all about. I've said many times, I think Cisco of the, the large established enterprise companies is one of the few, if not the only, that really has figured out, you know, that developer angle, because it's practical, you're not trying to force your way into developers, but, you know, I wonder if you could, you could talk a little bit about that trend and where you see it going. >>Yeah, no, that is, that is truly the trend. Every time I walk into dev net, um, the big halls at Cisco live, it is Cisco as code. Um, everything about Cisco is being presented through an API. It is automation ready. And, and frankly, that is, um, that is the, the love language of cloud. Um, it's, it's machines, it's the machines talking to machines in very effective ways. So, uh, you know, it is the, the, uh, I think, I think necessary, maybe not sufficient but necessary for, um, you know, doing all the machine scale stuff. What what's also necessary, uh, is to, um, to secure if infrastructure is code therefore, um, what, what secure, uh, what security methodologies do we have today that we use to secure code? While we, we have automated testing, we have threat modeling, right? Those things actually have to be now applied to infrastructure. So then when I, when I talk about how do you do, uh, automation securely, you do it the same way you secure your code, you test it, you, you threaten model, you, you, you say, you know, can my adversary, uh, exhibit something here that drives the automation in a way that I didn't intend it to go. Um, so all of those practices apply. It's just, everything is code these days. >>I've often said that security and privacy are sort of two sides of the same coin. And I want to ask you a question and it's really, you know, to me, it's not necessarily Cisco and company like companies like Cisco's responsibility, but I wonder if there's a way in which you can help. And of course, there's this Netflix documentary circling around the social dilemma. I don't know if you have a chance to see it, but basically dramatizes the way in which companies are appropriating our data to sell us ads and, you know, creating our own little set of facts, et cetera. And that comes down to sort of how we think about privacy and admin. It's good from the standpoint of awareness, you know, you may or may not care if you're a social media user. I love tick-tock, I don't care, but, but, but they, they sort of laid out. This is pretty scary scenario with a lot of the inventors of those technologies. You have any thoughts on that and you'll consist go play a role there in terms of protecting our privacy. I mean, beyond GDPR and California, consumer privacy act, um, what do you think? >>Yeah. Um, uh, I'll give you my, you know, my humble opinion is you, you fix social problems with social tools, you fixed technology problems with technology tools. Um, I think there is a social problem, um, uh, that needs to be rectified the, you know, um, we, we, weren't built as human beings to live and interact with an environment that agrees with us all the time. It's just pretty wrong. So yeah, that, that, that, um, that series that really kind of wake up a lot of people it is, is, you know, it's probably every day I hear somebody asked me if I saw it. Um, but I do think it also, you know, with that level of awareness, I think we, we overcome it or we compensate by what number one, just being aware that it's happening. Um, number two, you know, how you go about solving it, I think maybe come down to an individual or even a community's, um, solution and what might be right for one community might be, you know, not the same for the other. So you have to be respectful in that manner. >>Yeah. So it's, it's, it's almost, I think if I could, you know, play back, what I heard is, is yeah. Technology, you know, maybe got us into this problem, but technology alone is not going to get us out of the problem. It's not like some magic AI bot is going to solve this. It's got to be, you know, society has to really, really take this on as your, your premise. >>When I, when I first started, um, playing online games, I'm going back to the text based adventure stuff, like muds and moves. I did a talk at, at MIT one time and, um, this old curmudgeon in the back of the room, um, we were talking about democracy and we were talking about, you know, the social processes that we had modeled in our game and this and that. And this guy just gave us the SmackDown. He basically walked up to the front of the room and said, you know, all you techies, you judge efficiency by how long it takes. He says, democracy is a completely the opposite, which is you need to sleep on it. In fact, you shouldn't be scared if somebody can decide in a minute, what is good for the community? It is two weeks later, they probably have a better idea of what's good for the community. So it almost has the opposite dynamic. And that was super interesting to me. >>That's really interesting, you know, you read the, like the, the Lincoln historians and he was criticized in the day for having taken so long, you know, to make certain decisions, but, you know, ultimately when he acted acted with, with confidence. Um, so to that point, but, um, so what, what else are you working on these days that, uh, that are, that is interesting that maybe you want to share with our audience? Anything that's really super exciting for you or you, >>Yeah. You know, generally speaking, I'm trying to try and make it a little harder for the bad guys to operate. I guess that's a general theme making it simpler for the common person to use, uh, tools. Um, again, you know, it, all of these security tools, no matter how fancy it is, it's not that we're losing the complexity, it's that we're moving the complexity away from the user so that they can thrive at human scale. And we can do things at machine scale and kind of working those two together is, is sort of the, the magic recipe is, is not easy, but, um, but it is, it is fun. So that's, that's what keeps me engaged. I'm definitely >>Seeing, I wonder if you see it as just sort of a, obviously a heightened organization awareness, but I'm also seeing shifts in the organizational structures. You know, the, you know, it used to be a sec ops team and an Island. Okay, it's your problem? You know, the, the, the CSO cannot report into the, to the CIO because that's like the Fox in the hen house, a lot of those structures are, are, are changing. It seems, and be becoming this responsibility is coming much more ubiquitous across the organization. What are you seeing there and what are you? >>Yeah, no, and it's so familiar to me because, you know, um, I started out as a musician. So, you know, bands bands are a great analogy. You know, you play bass, I big guitar. You know, somebody else plays drums, everybody knows their role and you create something that's larger than, you know, the sum of all parts. And so that, that analogy I think, is coming to, you know, we, we saw it sort of with dev ops where, you know, the developer, doesn't just throw their coat over the wall and it's somebody else's problem. They move together as a band. And, and that's what I think, um, organizations are seeing is that, you know, why, why stop there? Why not include marketing? Why not include sales? Why don't we move together as a business? Not just here's the product and here's the rest of the business. That's, that's, that's pretty awesome. Um, I think, uh, we see a lot of those patterns, uh, particularly for the highly high performance businesses. >>You know, in fact, it's interesting you for great analogy, by the way. And you actually see in that within Cisco, you're seeing sort of a, and I know sometimes you guys don't like to talk about the plumbing, but I think it matters. I mean, you've got a leadership structure now. I I've talked to many of them. They seem to really be more focused on how they're connect, connecting, you know, across organizations. And it's increasingly critical in this world of, you know, of silo busters, isn't it? >>Yeah, no, I mean, you almost, as, as you move further and further away, you know, you can see how ridiculous it was before it would be like acquiring a band and say, okay, all your guitar players go over here. All your bass Blair is over there. I'm like what happened to the band? So that's, that's what I'm talking about is, you know, moving all of those disciplines, moving together, um, and servicing the same backlog and, and, and achieving the same successes together is just so awesome. >>Well, I always, I always feel better after talking to you. You know, I remember I remember art. Coviello used to put out his, his letter every year and I was reading. I'd get depressed. We spend all this money now we're less secure. But when I talked to you TK, I feel like much more optimistic. So I really appreciate the time you spend on the cube. It's, it's awesome to have you as a guest. >>I love these, I love >>Things. Thanks for inviting me and I miss you. I, you know, hopefully, you know, next year we can get together at some of the Cisco shows or other shows, but be well and stay weird. Uh, like the sign says to get Kenny, thanks so much for coming to the queue. We, uh, we really appreciate it. And thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Volante. We break back with our next guest, this short break.

>>Hello everyone. This is Dave Volante, and I want to welcome you to the cubes presentation of accelerating automation with Devon it in this special program, we're going to explore how to accelerate digital transformation and how the global pandemic is changing the way we work and the kinds of work that we do, the cube has pulled together experts from Cisco dev net. Now dev net is essentially Cisco as code. I've said many times in the cube that in my opinion, it's the most impressive initiative coming out of any established enterprise infrastructure company. What Cisco has done brilliantly with dev net is to create an API economy by leveraging its large infrastructure portfolio and its ecosystem. But the linchpin of dev net is the army of trained Cisco engineers, including those with the elite CC I E designation. Now dev net was conceived to train people on how to code infrastructure and develop applications in integrations. >>It's a platform to create new value and automation is a key to that creativity. So today you're going to hear from a number of experts. For example, TK key Anini is a distinguished engineer and a security pro. He's going to join us, his colleagues, Thomas Scheiber and Joe Vaccaro. They're going to help us understand how to apply automation to your data center networks, cloud, and security journeys. Cisco's Eric nip and Coon Jacobs will also be here with a look into Cisco's marketplace shifts. We'll also hear from dev net partners. Now let's kick things off with the architect of dev net, senior vice president and general manager of Cisco's dev net and CX ecosystem success. Susie, we roam around the globe. It's the cube presenting >>Decelerating automation with damnit >>Brought to you by Cisco. >>Hello and welcome to the cube. I'm Sean for a year host. We've got a great conversation, a virtual event, accelerating automation with dev net, Cisco dev net. And of course we got the Cisco brain trust here, our cube alumni, Susie wee vice president, senior vice president GM, and also CTO of Cisco dev net and ecosystem success CX, all that great stuff. Any Wade Lee, who's the director, a senior director of dev net certifications, Eric field, director of developer advocacy, Susie Mandy, Eric. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. Great to see you, John. So we're not in first, then we don't, can't be at the dev net zone. We can't be on site doing dev net, create all the great stuff we've been doing over the past few years. We're virtual the cube virtual. Thanks for coming on. Uh, Susie, I got to ask you because you know, we've been talking years ago when you started this mission and just the success you had has been awesome, but dev net create has brought on a whole nother connective tissue to the dev net community. This is what this ties into the theme, accelerating automation with dev net, because you said to me, I think four years ago, everything should be a service or X, a AAS as it's called and automation plays a critical role. Um, could you please share your vision because this is really important and still only five to 10% of the enterprises have containerized things. So there's a huge growth curve coming with developing and programmability. What's your, what's your vision? >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, what we know is that as more and more businesses are coming online as well, I mean, they're all online, but as they're growing into the cloud is they're growing in new areas. As we're dealing with security is everyone's dealing with the pandemic. There's so many things going on, but what happens is there's an infrastructure that all of this is built on and that infrastructure has networking. It has security, it has all of your compute and everything that's in there. And what matters is how can you take a business application and tie it to that infrastructure? How can you take, you know, customer data? How can you take business applications? How can you connect up the world securely and then be able to, you know, really satisfy everything that businesses need. And in order to do that, you know, the whole new tool that we've always talked about is that the network is programmable. The infrastructure is programmable and you don't need just apps writing on top, but now they get to use all of that power of the infrastructure to perform even better. And in order to get there, what you need to do is automate everything. You can't configure networks manually. You can't be manually figuring out policies, but you want to use that agile infrastructure in which you can really use automation. You can rise to higher level business processes and tie all of that up and down the staff by leveraging automation. >>You know, I remember a few years ago when dev net created for started, I interviewed Todd Nightingale and we were talking about Meraki, you know, not to get in the weeds, but you know, switches and hubs and wireless. But if you look at what we were talking about, then this is kind of what's going on now. And we were just recently, I think our last physical event was a Cisco, um, uh, Europe in Barcelona before all the covert hit. And you had this massive cloud surgeon scale happening going on, right when the pandemic hit. And even now more than ever the cloud scale, the modern apps, the momentum hasn't stopped because there's more pressure now to continue addressing more innovation at scale because the pressure to do that, um, cause the business to stay alive and to get your thoughts on, um, what's going on in your world because you were there in person now we're six months in scale is huge. >>We are. Yeah, absolutely. And what happened is as all of our customers, as businesses around the world, as we ourselves all dealt with, how do we run a business from home? You know, how do we keep people safe? How do we keep people at home and how do we work? And then it turns out, you know, business keeps rolling, but we've had to automate even more because you have to go home and then figure out how from home, can I make sure that my it infrastructure is automated out from home? Can I make sure that every employee is out there working safely and securely, you know, things like call center workers, which had to go into physical locations and be in kind of, you know, just, you know, uh, blocked off rooms to really be secure with their company's information. They had to work from home. >>So we had to extend business applications to people's homes, uh, in countries like, you know, well around the world, but also in India where it was actually not, you know, not, they wouldn't let, they didn't have rules to let people work from home in these areas. So then what we had to do was automate everything and make sure that we could administer, you know, all of our customers could administer these systems from home. So that put extra stress on automation. It put extra stress on our customer's digital transformation and it just forced them to, you know, automate digitally, transform quicker. And they had to, because you couldn't just go into a server room and tweak your servers, you had to figure out how to automate all of that. And we're still all in that environment today. >>You know, one of the hottest trends before the pandemic was observability, uh, Coobernetti's serve, uh, microservices. So those things, again, all dev ops and you know, you guys got some acquisitions youth about thousand eyes. Um, um, you got a new one you just bought, um, recently port shift to raise the game and security, Kubernetes, all these microservices. So observability super hot, but then people go work at home. As you mentioned, how do you observe, what are you observing? The network is under a huge pressure. I mean, it's crashing on people's zooms and WebExes and, uh, education, huge amount of network pressure. How are people adapting to this and the app side? How are you guys looking at the what's being programmed? What are some of the things that you're seeing with use cases around this program? Ability, challenge and observability challenges. It's a huge deal. >>Yeah, absolutely. And, um, you know, going back to Todd Nightingale, right. You know, back when we talked to Todd before he had Meraki and he had designed this simplicity, this ease of use this cloud managed, you know, doing everything from one central place. And now he has Cisco's entire enterprise and cloud business. So he is now applying that at that bigger, at that bigger scale for Cisco and for our customers. And he is building in the observability and the dashboards and the automation of the API APIs into all of it. Um, but when we take a look at what our customers needed is again, they had to build it all in. Um, they had to build it. And what happened was how your network was doing, how secure your infrastructure was, how well you could enable people to work from home and how well you could reach customers. >>All of that used to be an it conversation. It became a CEO and a board level conversation. So all of a sudden CEOs were actually, you know, calling on the heads of it and the CIO and saying, you know, how's our VPN connectivity is everybody working from home, how many people are connected and able to work and what's their productivity. So all of a sudden, all these things that were really infrastructure, it stuff became a board level conversation. And, you know, once again, at first everybody was panicked and just figuring out how to get people. But now what we've seen in all of our customers is that they are now building in automation and digital transformation and these architectures, and that gives them a chance to build in that observability, you know, looking for those events, the dashboards, you know, so it really has, has been fantastic to see what our customers are doing and what our partners are doing to really rise to that next level. >>I know you got to go, but real quick, um, describe what accelerating automation with dev net means. >>Well, you've been following, you know, we've been working together on dev net and the vision of the infrastructure programmability and everything for quite some time. And the thing that's really happened is yes, you need to automate, but yes, it takes people to do that and you need the right skill sets and the programmability. So a networker can't be a networker. A networker has to be a network automation developer. And so it is about people and it is about bringing infrastructure expertise together with software expertise and letting people run things are definite community has risen to this challenge. Um, people have jumped in, they've gotten their certifications. We have thousands of people getting certified. Uh, you know, we have, you know, Cisco getting certified. We have individuals, we have partners, you know, they're just really rising to the occasion. So accelerate, accelerating automation while it is about going digital. It's also about people rising to the level of, you know, being able to put infrastructure and software expertise together to enable this next chapter of business applications of, you know, cloud directed businesses and cloud growth. So it actually is about people just as much as it is about automation and technology. >>And we got dev net created right around the corner of virtual unfortunate. Won't be in person, but we'll be virtual. Susie. Thank you for your time. We're going to dig into those people, challenges with Mandy and Eric. Thank you for coming on. I know you got to go, but stay with us. We're going to dig in with Mandy and Eric. Thanks. >>Thank you so much. Have fun. Thanks John. >>Okay. Mandy, you heard Susie is about people. And one of the things that's close to your heart you've been driving is a senior director of dev net certifications, um, is getting people leveled up. I mean the demand for skills, cybersecurity network, programmability automation, network design solution architect, cloud multi-cloud design. These are new skills that are needed. Can you give us the update on what you're doing to help people get into the acceleration of automation game? >>Oh yes, absolutely. The, you know, what we've been seeing is a lot of those business drivers that Susie was mentioning, those are, what's accelerating a lot of the technology changes and that's creating new job roles or new needs on existing job roles where they need new skills. We are seeing customers, partners, people in our community really starting to look at, you know, things like DevSecOps engineer, network, automation, engineer, network automation, which Susie >>Mentioned, and looking at how these fit into their organization, the problems that they solve in their organization. And then how do people build the skills to be able to take on these new job roles or add that job role to their current scope and broaden out and take on new challenges. >>Eric, I want to go to you for a quick second on this, um, um, piece of getting the certifications. Um, first, before you get started, describe what your role is as director of developer advocacy, because that's always changing and evolving. What's the state of it now because with COVID people are working at home, they have more time to contact, switch and get some certifications and that they can code more. What's your, what's your role? >>Absolutely. So it's interesting. It definitely is changing a lot. A lot of our historically a lot of focus for my team has been on those outward events. So going to the Devin that creates the Cisco lives and helping the community connect and to help share tech mountain technical information with them, um, doing hands on workshops and really getting people into how do you really start solving these problems? Um, so that's had to pivot quite a bit. Um, obviously Cisco live us. We committed very quickly to a virtual event when, when conditions changed and we're able to actually connect as we found out with a much larger audience. So, you know, as opposed to in person where you're bound by the parameters of, you know, how big the convention center is, uh, we were actually able to reach a worldwide audience with our, uh, our definite date that was kind of attached on to Cisco live. >>And we got great feedback from the audience that now we're actually able to get that same enablement out to so many more people that otherwise might not have been able to make it. Um, but to your broader question of, you know, what my team does. So that's one piece of it is getting that information out to the community. So as part of that, there's a lot of other things we do as well. We were always helping out build new sandboxes and your learning labs, things like that, that they can come and get whenever they're looking for it out on the dev net site. And then my team also looks after community, such as the Cisco learning network where this there's a huge community that has historically been there to support people working on their Cisco certifications. And we've seen a huge shift now in that group that all of the people that have been there for years are now looking at the domain certifications and helping other people that are trying to get on board with programmability. They're taking a lot of those same community enablement skills and propping up the community with, you know, helping you answer questions, helping provide content. They've moved now into the dev net space as well, and are helping people with that servicer. So it's great seeing the community come along and really see that >>I got to ask you on the trends around automation, what skills and what developer patterns are you seeing with automation? Are, is there anything in particular, obviously network automation has been around for a long time. Cisco has been leader in that, but as you move up, the stack as modern applications are building, do you see any patterns or trends around what is accelerating automation? What are people learning? Yeah, absolutely. >>So you mentioned, uh, observability was big before COVID and we actually really saw that amplified during COVID. So a lot of people have come to us looking for insights. How can I get that better observability, uh, now that we needed? Well, we're virtual. Um, so that's actually been a huge uptake and we've seen a lot of people that weren't necessarily out looking for things before that are now figuring out how can I do this at scale? And I think one good example that, uh, Susie was talking about the VPN example, and we actually had a number of SES in the Cisco community that had customers dealing with that very thing where they very quickly had to ramp up. And one in particular actually wrote a bunch of automation to go out and measure all of the different parameters that it departments might care about, about their firewalls, things that you do normally look at me all days, you would size your firewalls based on, you know, assuming a certain number of people working from home. >>And when that number went to a hundred percent things like licensing started coming into play, where they needed to make sure they had the right capacity in their platforms that they weren't necessarily designed for. So one of the STDs actually wrote a bunch of code to go out, use some open source tooling, to monitor and alert on these things and then published it. So the whole community could go out and get a copy of it, try it out their own environment. And we saw a lot of interest around that and trying to figure out, okay, now I can take that and I can adapt it to what I need to see for my observability. >>That's great. Mandy. I want to get your thoughts on this too, because as automation continues to scale, it's going to be a focus and people are at home and you guys had a lot of content online for you recorded every session that didn't the dev Ned zone learnings going on, sometimes linearly. And nonlinearly you got the certifications, which is great. That's key, key, great success there. People are interested, but what are the learnings? Are you seeing? What are people doing? What's the top top trends. >>Yeah. So what we're seeing is like you said, people are at home, they've got time. They want to advance their skillset. And just like any kind of learning people want choice because they want to be able to choose what's matches their time that's available and their learning style. So we're seeing some people who want to dive into full online study groups with mentors, leading them through a study plan. And we have two new, uh, expert led study groups like that. We're also seeing whole teams at different companies who want to do, uh, an immersive learning experience together, uh, with projects and office hours and things like that. And we have a new, um, offer that we've been putting together for people who want those kinds of team experiences called automation boot camp. And then we're also seeing individuals who want to be able to, you know, dive into a topic, do a hands on lab, get some skills, go to the rest of the day of do their work and then come back the next day. >>And so we have really modular self-driven hands on learning through the dev net fundamentals course, which is available through dev net. And then there's also people who are saying, I just want to use the technology. I like to experiment and then go, you know, read the instructions, read the manual, do the deeper learning. And so they're, they're spending a lot of time in our dev net sandbox, trying out different technologies, Cisco technologies with open source technologies, getting hands on and building things. And three areas where we're seeing a lot of interest in specific technologies. One is around SD wan. There's a huge interest in people skilling up there because of all the reasons that we've been talking about security is a focus area where people are dealing with new scale, new kinds of threats, having to deal with them in new ways and then automating their data center, using infrastructure as code type principles. So those are three areas where we're seeing a lot of interest and you'll be hearing some more about that at dev net create >>Awesome. Eric and Mandy, if you guys can wrap up, um, this accelerated automation with dev net package and a virtual event here, um, and also tee up dev net create because dev net create has been a very kind of grassroots, organically building momentum over the years. Again, it's super important cause it's now the app world coming together with networking, you know, end to end programmability and with everything as a service that you guys are doing everything with API APIs, um, only can imagine the enablement that's gonna name, uh, create, can you share the summary real quick on accelerating automation with, at and T up dev net create Mandy we'll start. Yeah. >>Yes. I'll go first. And then Eric can close this out. Um, so just like we've been talking about with you at every definite event over the past years, you know, that's bringing APIs across our whole portfolio and up and down the stack and accelerating, uh, automation with dev net. Susie mentioned the people aspect of that. The people skilling up and how that transformed teams, transforms teams. And I think that it's all connected in how businesses are being pushed on their transformation because of current events. That's also a great opportunity for people to advance their careers and take advantage of some of that quickly changing landscape. And so what I think about accelerating automation with dev net, it's about the dev community. It's about people getting those new skills and all the creativity and problem solving that will be unleashed by that community. With those new skills. >>Eric take us home. He accelerating automation, dev net and dev net create a lot of developer action going on in cloud native right now, your thoughts? >>Absolutely. I think it's exciting. I mentioned the transition to virtual for Devin that day, this year for Cisco live. And we're seeing, we're able to leverage it even further with creative this year. So, whereas it used to be, you know, confined by the walls that we were within for the event. Now we're actually able to do things like we're adding the start now track for people that want to be there. They want to be a developer, a network automation developer, for instance, we've now got attract just for them where they can get started and start learning. Some of the skills they'll need, even if some of the other technical sessions were a little bit deeper than what they were ready for. Um, so I love that we're able to bring that together with the experienced community that we usually do from across the industry, bringing us all kinds of innovative talks, talking about ways that they're leveraging technology, leveraging the cloud, to do new and interesting things to solve their business challenges. >>So I'm really excited to bring that whole mix together, as well as getting some of our business units together too, and talk straight from their engineering departments. What are they doing? What are they seeing? What are they thinking about when they're building new APIs into their platforms? What are the, what problems are they hoping that customers will be able to solve with them? So I think together seeing all of that and then bringing the community together from all of our usual channels. So like I said, Cisco learning network, we've got a ton of community coming together, sharing their ideas and helping each other grow those skills. I see nothing but acceleration ahead of us for automation. >>Awesome. Thanks so much, God, man, you can add, add one more thing. >>I'm just going to say the other really exciting thing about create this year with the virtual nature of it is it it's happening in three regions and um, you know, we're so excited to see the people joining from all the different regions and uh, content and speakers and the region stepping up to have things personalized to their area, to their community. And so that's a whole new experience for them that create that's going to be fantastic this year. Yeah. >>I was just gonna close out and just put the final bow on that by saying that you guys have always been successful with great content focused on the people in the community. I think now during what this virtual dev net virtual dev net create virtual, the cube virtual, I think we're learning new things. People working in teams and groups and sharing content, we're going to learn new things. We're going to try new things and ultimately people will rise up and we'll be resilient. I think when you have this kind of opportunity, it's really fun. And we'll, we'll, we'll ride the wave with you guys. So thank you so much for taking the time to come on the cube and talk about your awesome accelerating automation and dev net. Great. Looking forward to it. Thank you. >>Yeah. >>The cube virtual here in Palo Alto studios doing the remote content amendment say virtual until we're face to face. Thank you so much for watching and we'll see you at dev net create thanks for watching Jeffrey here with the cube. Uh, we have our ongoing coverage of the Cisco dev net event. It's really accelerating with automation and programmability in the new normal, and we know the new normal is definitely continuing to go. We've been doing this since the middle of March and now we're in October. So we're excited to have our next guest he's Thomas Sheba. He is the vice president of product management for data center for Cisco Thomas. Great to see you. >>Hey, good to see you too. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody can see on our background. >>Exactly, exactly. So, I mean, I'm curious, we've talked to a lot of people. We talked to a lot of leaders, you know, especially like back in March and April with this light moment, which was, >>You know, no time to prep and suddenly everybody has to work from home. Teachers got to teach from home. And so you've got the kids home, you've got the spouse home, everybody's home trying to get on the network and do their zoom calls and their classes. I'm curious from your perspective, you guys are right there on the, on the network you're right in the infrastructure. What did you hear and see kind of from your customers when suddenly, you know, March 16th hit and everybody had to go home? >>Well, good point, Hey, I do think we all appreciate the network much more than we used to do before. Uh, and then the only other difference is I'm really more on WebEx calls to zoom calls, but you know, otherwise, uh, yes. Um, what, what I do see actually is that as I said, network becomes much more obvious as a critical piece. And so before we really talked a lot about, uh, agility and flexibility these days, we talk much more about resiliency quite frankly. Uh, and what do I need to have in place with respect to network to get my things from left to right. And you know, it was 2000, he still West, as we say on the data center. Uh, and that just is for most of my customers, a very, very important topic at this point. Right. >>You know, it's, it's amazing to think, you know, had this happened, you know, five years ago, 10 years ago, you know, the ability for so many people in, in, in the information industry to be able to actually make that transition relatively seamlessly, uh, is, is actually pretty amazing. I'm sure there was some, some excitement and some kudos in terms of, you know, it, it is all based on the network and it is kind of this quiet thing in the background that nobody pays attention to. It's like a ref in the football game until they make a bad play. So, you know, it is pretty fascinating that you and your colleagues have put this infrastructure and that enabled us to really make that move with, with, with really no prep, no planning and actually have a whole lot of services delivered into our homes that we're used to getting at the office are used to getting at school. >>Yeah. And I mean, to your point, I mean, some of us did some planning. Can we clearly talking about some of these, these trends in the way I look at this trends as being distributed data centers and, um, having the ability to move your, your workloads and access for users to wherever you want to be. And so I think that clearly went on for a while. And so in a sense, we, we, we prep was, are normal, but we're prepping for it. Um, but as I said, resiliency just became so much more important than, you know, one of the things I actually do a little plot, a little, little, uh, Bret before a block I put out end of August around resiliency. Uh, you, you, if you didn't, if you didn't put this in place, you better put it in place. Because I think as we all know, we saw her March. This is like maybe two or three months, we're now in October. Um, and I sing, this is the new normal for some time being. >>Yeah, I think so. So let's stick on that theme in terms of trends, right? The other great trend as public cloud, um, and cloud and multi cloud, there's all types of variants on that theme you had in that blog post about, uh, resiliency in data center, cloud networking, data center cloud, you know, some people think, wait, it's, it's kind of an either, or I either got my data center or I've got my stuff in the cloud and I've got public cloud. And then as I said, hybrid cloud, you're talking really specifically about enabling, um, both inner inner data center resiliency within multi data centers within the same enterprise, as well as connecting to the cloud. That's probably counterintuitive for some people to think that that's something that Cisco is excited about and supporting. So I wonder if you can share, you know, kind of how the market is changing, how you guys are reacting and really putting the things in place to deliver customer choice. >>Yeah, no, it's actually, to me it's really not a counterintuitive because in the end was what, uh, I'm focusing on. And the company is focusing on is what our customers want to do and need to do. Uh, and that's really, um, would, you know, most people call hybrid cloud or multi-cloud, uh, in, in the end, what it is, what it is, is really the ability to have the flexibility to move your workloads where you want them to be. And there are different reasons why you want to place them, right? You might've placed them for security reasons. You might've played some clients reasons, depending on which customer segment you after, if you're in the United States or in Europe or in Asia, there are a lot of different reasons where you're going to put your things. And so I think in the end, what, uh, an enterprise looks for is that agility, flexibility, and resiliency. >>And so really what you want to put in place is what we call like the cloud on ramp, right? You need to have an ability to move sings as needed, but the logic context section, which we see in the, um, last couple of months, accelerating is really this whole seam around digital transformation, uh, which goes hand in hand then was, uh, the requirement on the at T side really do. And I T operations transformation, right. How it operates. Uh, and I think that's really exciting to see, and this is excellent. Well, a lot of my discussions, I was customers, uh, what does it actually mean with respect to the it organization and what are the operational changes? This a lot of our customers are going through quite frankly, accelerated right. Going through, >>Right. And, and automation is in the title of the event. So automation is, you know, is an increasingly important thing, you know, as the, as we know, and we hear all the time, you know, the flows of data, the complexity of the data, either on the security or the way the network's moving, or as you said, shifting workloads around, based on the dynamic situations, whether that's business security, et cetera, in a software defined networking has been around for a while. How are you seeing kind of this evolution in adding more automation, you know, to more and more processes to free up those, those, um, no kind of limited resources in terms of really skilled people to focus on the things that they should be focusing and not stuff that, that hopefully you can, you know, get a machine to run with some level of automation. Yeah. >>Yeah. That's a good point. And it said the tech line, I have, you know, sometimes when my mind is really going from a cloud ready, which has in most of the infrastructure is today to cloud native. And so let me a little expand on those, right? There's like the cloud ready is basically what we have put in place over the last five to six years, all the infrastructure that all our customers have, network infrastructure, all the nexus 9,000, they're all cloud ready. Right. And what this really means, do you have API APIs everywhere, right? Whether this is on the box, whether it's on the controller, whether this is on the operations tools, all of these are API enabled and that's just a foundation for automation, right? You have to have that. Now, the next step really is what do you do with that capability? Right? >>And this is the integration with a lot of automation tools. Uh, and that's a whole range, right? This is where the it operation transformation kicks in different customers at different speed, right? Some just, you know, I use these API APIs and use normal tools that they have in a network world just to pull information. Some customers go for it further and saying, I want to integrate this with like some CMDB tools. Some go even further and saying, this is like the cloud native pieces saying, Oh, I want to use, let's say red hat Ansible. I want to use, uh, how she called Terraform and use those things to actually drive how I manage my infrastructure. And so that's really the combination of the automation capability. Plus the integration was relevant cloud native enabling tools that really is happening at this point. We're seeing customers accelerating that, that motion, which really then drives us how they run their it operations. Right. And so that's a pretty exciting, exciting area to see, uh, giving us, I said, we have the infrastructure in place. There's no need for customers to actually do change something. Most of them have already the infrastructures that can do this is just no doing the operational change. The process changes to actually get there. >>Right. And it's funny, we, we recently covered, you know, PagerDuty and, and they highlight what you just talked about, the cloud native, which is, you know, all of these applications now are so interdependent on all these different API APIs, you know, pulling data from all these applications. So a, when they work great, it's terrific. But if there's a problem, you know, there's a whole lot of potential throats to choke out there and find, find those issues. And it's all being connected via the network. So, you know, it's even more critically important, not only for the application, but for all these little tiny components within the application to deliver, you know, ultimately a customer experience within a very small units of time, uh, so that you don't lose that customer or you, you complete that transaction. They, they check out of their shopping cart. You know, all these, these things that are now created with cloud native applications that just couldn't really do before. >>No, you're absolutely right. And that's, this is like, just to say, sit, I'm actually very excited because it opens up a lot of abilities for our customers, how they to actually structure the operation. Right. One of the nice things around this or automation plus a tool integration to an integration is you actually opened us up, not a sole automation train, not just to the network operations personnel. Right. You also open it up and can use this for the SecOps person or for the dev ops person or for the cloud ops engineering team. Right. Because the way it's structured, the way we built this, um, it's literally as an API interface and you can now decide, what is your process do you want to have? And what traditional process you have a request network, operation teams executes the request using these tools and then hand it back over. >>Or do you say, Hey, maybe some of these security things I gotta hand over the sec ups team and they can directly call, uh, these, these API is right, or even one step further. You can have the opportunity that the dev ops or the application team actually says, Hey, I got to write a whole infrastructure as code kind of a script or template, and I just execute. Right. And it's really just using what the infrastructure provides. And so that whole range of different user roles and our customer base, what they can do with the automation capability that's available. It's just very, very exciting way because it's literally unleashes a lot of flexibility, how they want to structure and how they want to rebuild the it operations processes. >>Interesting. You know, cause the, you know, the DevOps culture has taken over a lot, right. Obviously changed software programming for the last 20 years. And, and I think, you know, there's a, there's a lot of just kind of the concept of dev ops versus necessarily, you know, the actual things that you do to execute that technique. And I don't think most people would think of, you know, network ops or, you know, net ops, you know, whatever the equivalent is in the networking world to have, you know, kind of a fast changing dynamic, uh, kind of point of view versus a, you know, stick it in, you know, spec it, stick it in, lock it down. So I wonder if you can, you can share how, you know, kind of that dev ops, um, attitude point of view, workflow, whatever the right verb is, has impacted, you know, things at Cisco and the way you guys think about networking and flexibility within the networking world. >>Yeah, literally, absolutely. And again, it's all customer driven, right? There's none of those, none of this is really actually, you know, a little bit of credit, maybe some of us where we have a vision, but a lot of it's just customer driven feedback. Uh, and yeah, we, we do have network operations teams comes from saying, Hey, we use Ansible heavily on the compute side, we might use this for alpha seven. We want to use the same for networking. And so we made available all these integrations, uh, with sobriety as a state, whether these are the switches, whether these are ACI dcnm controller or our multi-site orchestration capabilities, all of these has Ansible integration the way to the right, the other one, as I mentioned, that how she from Turco Terraform, we have integrations available and they see the requests for these tools to use that. >>Uh, and so that is the emotion we're in for all the, you know, and, uh, another block actually does out there, we just posted saying all set what you can do and then a Palo to this, right. Just making the integration available. We also have a very, very heavy focus on definite and enablement and training, uh, and you know, a little clock. And I know, uh, probably, uh, part of the segment, the whole definite community that Cisco has is very, very vibrant. Uh, and the beauty of this is right. If you look at those, whether you're a net ops person or a dev ops person or a SecOps person, it doesn't really matter. It has a lot of like capability available to just help you get going or go from one level to the next level. Right? And there's simple things like sandbox environments where you can, we know what's out stress, try sinks out snippets of code are there, you can do all of these things. And so we do see it's a kind of a push and pull a tremendous amount of interest and a tremendous, uh, uh, time people spend to learn quite frankly, then that's another site product of, of, you know, the situation where, and people said, Oh man, and say, okay, online learning is the thing. So these, these, these tools are used very, very heavily, right? >>That's awesome. Cause you know, we've, we've had Susie Lee on a number of times and I know he and Mandy and the team really built this dev net thing. And it really follows along this other theme that we see consistently across other pieces of tech, which is democratization, right democratization of the access tool, taking it out of, of just a mahogany row with, again, a really limited number of people that know how to make it work and it can make the changes and then opening it up to a software defined world where now that the, you know, the it's as application centric, point of view, where the people that are building the apps to go create competitive advantage. Now don't have to wait for, you know, the one network person to help them out in and out of these environments. Really interesting. And I wonder if, you know, when you look at what's happened with public cloud and how they kind of change the buying parameter, how they kind of change the degree of difficulty to get project started, you know, how you guys have kind of integrated that, that type of thought process to make it easier for app developers to get their job done. >>Yeah. I mean, again, it's, it's, uh, I typically look at this more from a, from a customer lens, right? It's the transformation process and it always starts as I want agility. I want flexibility. I want to resiliency, right? This is where we talk to a business owner, what they're looking for. And then that translates into, into an I, to operations process, right? Your strategy needs to map then how you actually do this. Uh, and that just drives then what tools do you want to have available to actually enable this? Right? And the enablement again is for different roles, right? There is you need to give sync services to the app developer and, uh, the, the platform team and the security team, right. To your point. So the network, uh, can act at the same speed, but you also give to us to the network operations teams because they need to adjust. >>Then they have the ability to react to, uh, to some of these requirements. Right. And it's just automation. I think we, we, we focused on that, but there's also to your point, the, the need, how do I extend between data centers? You know, just, just for backup and recovery and how do I extend into, into public clouds, right? Uh, and in the end, that's a, that's a network connectivity problem. Uh, and we have soft as, uh, we have made as available. We have integrations into, uh, AWS. We have integrations into a joy to actually make this very easy from a, from a network perspective to extend your private domains, private networks into which have private networks on these public clouds. So from an app development perspective, now it looks like he's on the same network. It's a protective enterprise network. Some of it might sit here. >>Some of it might sit here, but it's really looking the same. And that's really in the enticing. What, what a business looks at, right? They don't necessarily want to say, I need to have something separate for this deployment was a separate for that deployment. What they want is I need to deploy something. I need to do this resilient. And the resilient way in an agile way gives me the tools. And so that's really where we focused, um, and what we're driving, right? It's that combination of automation consistently, and then definite tools, uh, available that we support. Uh, but they're all open. Uh, they're all standard tools as the ones I mentioned, right. That everybody's using. So I'm not getting into this, Oh, this is specific to Cisco, right. Uh, it's really democratization. I actually liked your term. Yeah. >>It's a great terminate. And it's, it's really interesting, especially with, with the API APIs and the way everything is so tied together that everyone kind of has to enable this because that's what the customer is demanding. Um, and it is all about the applications and the workloads and where those things are moving, but they don't really want to manage that. They just want to, you know, deliver business benefit to their customers and respond to, uh, you know, competitive threats in the marketplace, et cetera. So it's really an interesting time for the infrastructure, you know, to really support kind of this app first point of view, uh, versus the other way around is kind of what it used to be and, and enable this hyper fast development hyper fast, uh, change in the competitive landscape or else you will be left behind. Um, so super important stuff. >>Yeah, no, I totally agree. And as I said, I mean, it's, it's kind of interesting because we, we started on a Cisco data center. So we started this probably six or seven years ago. Uh, when we, when we named the application centric, uh, clearly a lot of these concepts evolve, uh, but in a sense it is that reversal of the role from the network provides something and you use to, uh, this is what I want to do. And I need a service, uh, thinking on a networking side to expose. So as that can be consumed. And so that clearly is playing out. Um, and as I said, automation is a key key foundation that we put in place, uh, and our customers, most of our customers at this point, uh, on, on these products, >>They have all the capabilities there. They can literally take advantage. There's really nothing that stops them >>Good times for you, because I'm sure you've seen all the memes and social media, right? What what's driving your digital transformation. Is it the CEO, the CMO or COVID, and we all know the answer to the question. So I don't think the, the pace of change is going to slow down anytime soon. So keeping the network up and enabling us all to get done, what we have to get done and all the little magic that happens behind the scenes. >>Yeah. No thanks. Thanks for having me. And again, yeah. If you're listening and you're wondering, how do I get started Cisco? Definitely just the place to go. It's fantastic. Fantastic. And I highly recommend everybody roll up your sleeves, you know, the best reasons you can have. >>Yeah. And we know once the physical events come back, we've been to dev net create a bunch of times, and it's a super vibrant, super excited, but really engaged community sharing. Lots of information is kind of, it's still kind of that early vibe, you know, where everyone is still really enthusiastic and really about learning and sharing information. So I say Susie and the team are really built a great thing, and we're a, we're happy to continue to cover it. And eventually we'll be back, uh, face to face. >>Okay. I look forward to that as well. >>All right, thanks. Uh, he's Thomas I'm Jeff, you're watching continuing coverage of Cisco dev net accelerating with automation and programmability >>TK Kia. Nini is here. He's a distinguished engineer at Cisco TK, my friend. Good to see you again. How are you? Good. I mean, you and I were in Barcelona in January and, you know, we knew we saw this thing coming, but we didn't see it coming this way. Did we know that no one did, but yeah, that was right before everything happened. Well, it's weird. Right? I mean, we were, you know, we, we, it was in the back of our minds in January, we sort of had Barcelona's hasn't really been hit yet. It looked like it was really isolated in China, but, uh, but wow, what a change and I guess, I guess I'd say I'd start with the, we're seeing really a secular change in your space and security identity, access management, cloud security, endpoint security. I mean, all of a sudden these things explode as the work from home pivot has occurred. >>Uh, and it feels like these changes are permanent or semi-permanent, what are you seeing out there? Yeah, I don't, I don't think anybody thinks the world's going to go back the way it was. Um, to some degree it's, it's changed forever. Um, you know, I, I, I do a lot of my work remotely. Um, and, and so, you know, being a remote worker, isn't such a big deal for me, but for some, it was a huge impact. And like I said, you know, um, remote work, remote education, you know, everybody's on the opposite side, a computer. And so the digital infrastructure has just become a lot more important to protect. And the integrity of it essentially is almost our own integrity these days. >>Yeah. And when you see that, you know, that work from home pivot, I mean, you know, our estimates are along with a partner DTR about 16% of the workforce was at home working from home prior to COVID and now it's, you know, North of 70% plus, and that's going to come down maybe a little bit over the next six months. We'll see what happens with the fall surge, but, but people essentially accept, expect that to at least double that 16%, you know, going forward indefinitely. So how, what is that, what kind of pressure does that put on the security infrastructure and how, how organizations are approaching security? >>Yeah, I just think, uh, from a mindset standpoint, you know, what was optional, uh, maybe, um, last year, uh, is no longer optional and I don't think it's going to go back. Um, I think, I think a lot of people, uh, have changed the way, you know, they live and the way they work. Um, and they're doing it in ways, hopefully that in some cases, uh, yield more productivity, um, again, um, you know, usually with technology that's severely effective, it doesn't pick sides. So the security slant to it is it frankly works just as well for the bad guys. And so that's, that's the balance we need to keep, which is we need to be extra diligent, uh, on how we go about securing infrastructure, uh, how we go about securing even our social channels, because remember all our social channels now are digital. So that's, that's become the new norm. >>You know, you've helped me understand over the years. I remember a line you shared with me in the cube one time is that the adversary is highly capable, is sort of the phrase that you used. And essentially the way you describe it, as you know, your job as a security practitioner is to decrease the bad guy's return on investment, you know, increase their costs, increase the numerator, but as, as work shifts from home, yeah, I'm in my house, you know, my wifi in my, you know, router with my dog's name is the password. You know, it's much, much harder for me to, to increase that denominator at home. So how can you help? >>Yeah. I mean, it's, it is, it is truly, um, when you think, when you get into the mind of the adversary and, and, uh, you know, the cyber crime out there, they're honestly just like any other business they're trying to operate with high margin. And so if you can get there, if you can get in there and erode their margin, frankly go find something else to do. Um, and, and again, you know, you know, the shift we experienced day to day is it's not just our kids are online in school and, uh, our work is online, but all the groceries we order, um, uh, you know, this Thanksgiving and holiday season, uh, a lot more online shopping is going to take place. So, you know, everything's gone digital. And so the question is, you know, how, how do we up our game there so that we can go about our business, uh, effectively and make it very expensive for the adversary to operate, uh, and take care of their business? Cause it's nasty stuff. >>I want to ask you about automation generally, and then specifically how it applies to security. So we, I mean, we certainly saw the ascendancy of the hyperscalers and of course they really attacked the it labor problem. We learned a lot from that and an it organizations have applied much of that thinking. And the it's critical at scale. I mean, you just can't scale humans at the pace, the technology scales today, how does that apply to security and specifically, how is automation affecting security? >>Yeah, it's, it's, it's the topic these days. Um, you know, businesses, I think, realize that they can't continue to grow at human scale. And so the reason why automation and things like AI and machine learning have a lot of value is because everyone's trying to expand, uh, and operate at machine scale. Now, I mean that for, for businesses, I mean that for education and everything else now, so are the adversaries, right? So it's expensive for them to operate at Cuban scale and they are going to machine scale, going to machine scale, uh, a necessity is that you're going to have to harness some level of automation, have the machines, uh, work on your behalf, have the machines carry your intent. Um, and when you do that, um, you can do it safely or you could do it dangerously. And that that's really kind of your choice. Um, you know, just because you can automate something doesn't mean you should, um, you, you wanna make sure that frankly, the adversary can't get in there and use that automation on their behalf. So it's, it's a tricky thing because, you know, if when you take the phrase, you know, how do we, how do we automate security? Well, you actually have, uh, take care of, of securing the automation first. >>Yeah. We talked about this in Barcelona, where you were explaining that, you know, the bad guys, the adversaries are essentially, you know, weaponizing using your own tooling, which makes them appear safe because it's, they're hiding in plain sight. Right? >>Well, there's, they're clever, uh, give them that, um, you know, there's this phrase that they, they always talk about called living off the land. Um, there's no sense in them coming into your network and bringing their tools and, uh, and being detective, you know, if they can use the tools that's already there, then, uh, they have a higher degree of, of evading, uh, your protection. If they can pose as Alice or Bob, who's already been credentialed and move around your network, then they're moving around the network as Alice or Bob. They're not marked as the adversary. So again, you know, having the detection methods available to find their behavior anomalies and things like that become a paramount, but also, you know, having the automation to contain them, to eradicate them, to, you know, minimize their effectiveness, um, without it, I mean, ideally without human interaction, cause you, you just, can you move faster, you move quicker. Um, and I see that with an asterisk because, um, if done wrong, frankly, um, you're just making their job more effective. >>I wonder if we could talk about the market a little bit, uh, it's I'm in the security space, cybersecurity 80 plus billion, which by the way, is just a little infant testable component of our GDP. So we're not spending nearly enough to protect that, that massive, uh, GDP, but guys, I wonder if you could bring up the chart because when you talk to CSOs and you ask them, what's your, what's your biggest challenge? They'll say lack of talent. And, and so what this chart shows is from ETR, our, or our survey partner, and on the vertical axis is net score. And that's an indication of spending momentum on the horizontal axis is market share, which is a measure of presence, a pervasiveness, if you will, inside the datasets. And so there's a couple of key points here. I wanted to put forth to our audience and then get your reactions. >>So you can see Cisco, I highlighted in red, Cisco is business and security is very, very strong. We see it every quarter. It's a growth area that Chuck Robbins talks about on the, on the conference call. And so you can see on the horizontal axis, you've got a big presence in the data set. I mean, Microsoft is out there, but they're everywhere, but you're right there, uh, in that, in that dataset. And then you've got for such a large presence, you've got a lot of momentum in the marketplace, so that's very impressive. But the other point here is you've got this huge buffet of options. There's just a zillion vendors here. And that just adds to the complexity. This is of course only a subset of what's in the security space. You know, the people who answered for the survey. So my question is how can Cisco help, you know, simplify this picture? Is it automation? Is it, you know, you guys have done some really interesting tuck in acquisitions and you're bringing that integration together. Can you talk about that a little bit? >>Yeah. I mean, that's an impressive chart. I mean, when you look to the left there it's, um, I had a customer tell me once that, you know, I came to this trade show, looking for transportation and these people are trying to sell me car parts. Um, that's the frustration customers have, you know, and I think what Cisco has done really well is to really focus on outcomes. Um, what is the customer outcome? Cause ultimately that's, that is what the customer wants. You know, there might be a few steps to get to that outcome, but the closest closer you can get to delivering outcomes for the customer, the better you are. And I think, I think security in general has just year over year have been just written with, um, you need to be an expert. Um, you need to buy all these parts and put it together yourself. And, and I think, I think those days are behind us, but particularly as, as security becomes more pervasive and we're, you know, we're selling to the business, we're not selling to the, you know, t-shirt wearing hacker anymore. >>Yeah. So, well, well how does cloud fit in here? Because I think there's a lot of misconceptions about cloud people that God put my data in the cloud I'm safe, but you know, of course we know it's a shared responsibility model. So I'm interested in your, your thoughts on that. Is it really, is it a sense of complacency? A lot of the cloud vendors, by the way, say, Oh, the state of security is great in the cloud. Whereas many of us out there saying, wow, it's, it's not so great. Uh, so what are your thoughts on that, that whole narrative and what Cisco's play in cloud? >>I think cloud, um, when you look at the services that are delivered via the cloud, you see that exact pattern, which is you see customers paying for the outcome or as close to the outcome as possible. Um, you know, no, no data center required, no disk drive required, you just get storage, you know, it's, it's, it's all of those things that are again, closer to the outcome. I think the thing that interests me about cloud two is it's really been, it's really punctuated the way we go about building systems. Um, again at machine scale. So, you know, before, when I write code and I think about, Oh, what computers are gonna run on or, you know, what servers are going to is you're going to run on those. Those thoughts never crossed my mind anymore. You know, I'm modeling the intent of what the service should do and the machines then figure it out. So, you know, for instance, on Tuesday, if the entire internet shows up, uh, the, the system works without fail. And if on Wednesday, if only North America shows up, you know, so, but, but there's no way you could staff that, right. There's just no human scale approach that gets you there. And that's, that's the beauty of all of this cloud stuff is, um, it really is, uh, the next level of how we do computer science. >>So you're talking about infrastructure as code and that applies to security as code. That's what dev net is really all about. I've said many times, I think Cisco of the large established enterprise companies is one of the few, if not the only, that really has figured out, you know, that developer angle, because it's practical. What are you doing? You're not trying to force your way into developers, but, you know, I wonder if you could, you could talk a little bit about that trend and where you see it going. >>Yeah, no, that is, that is truly the trend. Every time I walk into dev net, um, the big halls at Cisco live, it is Cisco as code. Um, everything about Cisco is being presented through an API. It is automation ready. And frankly, that is, um, that is the, the love language of the cloud. Um, it's it's machines is the machines talking to machines in very effective ways. So, you know, it is the, the, uh, I, I think, I think necessary, maybe not sufficient but necessary for, um, you know, doing all the machine scale stuff. What what's also necessary, uh, is to, um, to secure if infrastructure is code therefore, um, what, what secure, uh, what security methodologies do we have today that we use to secure code? While we have automated testing, we have threat modeling, right? Those things actually have to be now applied to infrastructure. So then when I, when I talk about how do you do, uh, automation securely, you do it the same way you secure your code, you test it, you, you threat model, you, you, you say, you know, Ken, my adversary, uh, exhibit something here that drives the automation in a way that I didn't intend it to go. Um, so all of those practices apply. It's just, everything has code these days. >>I've often said that security and privacy are sort of two sides of the same coin. And I want to ask you a question and it's really, you know, to me, it's not necessarily Cisco and company like companies like Cisco's responsibility, but I wonder if there's a way in which you can help. And of course, there's this Netflix documentary circling around the social dilemma. I don't know if you have a chance to see it, but basically dramatizes the way in which companies are appropriating our data to sell us ads and, you know, creating our own little set of facts, et cetera. And that comes down to sort of how we think about privacy and admin. It's good from the standpoint of awareness, you know, you may or may not care if you're a social media user. I love tick-tock, I don't care, but, but, but they, they sort of laid out. This is pretty scary scenario with a lot of the inventors of those technologies. You have any thoughts on that and you'll consist go play a role there in terms of protecting our privacy. I mean, beyond GDPR and California, consumer privacy act, um, what do you think? >>Yeah. Um, uh, I'll give you my, you know, my humble opinion is you, you fix social problems with social tools, you fixed technology problems with technology tools. Um, I think there is a social problem, um, that needs to be rectified the, you know, um, we, we, weren't built as, um, human beings to live and interact with an environment that agrees with us all the time. It's just pretty wrong. So yeah, that, that, that, um, that series that really kind of wake up a lot of people it is, is, you know, it's probably every day I hear somebody asked me if I, I saw, um, but I do think it also, you know, with that level of awareness, I think we, we overcome it or we compensate by what number one, just being aware that it's happening. Um, number two, you know, how you go about solving it, I think maybe come down to an individual or even a communities, um, solution and what might be right for one community might be, you know, not the same for the other. So you have to be respectful in that manner. >>Yeah. So it's, it's, it's almost, I think if I could play back, what I heard is, is yeah. Technology, you know, maybe got us into this problem, but technology alone is not going to get us out of the problem. It's not like some magic AI bot is going to solve this. It's got to be, you know, society has to really, really take this on as your premise. >>That's a good point. When I, when I first started playing online games, I'm going back to the text-based adventure stuff, like muds and moves. I did a talk at, at MIT one time, and I'm this old curmudgeon in the back of the room. Um, we were talking about democracy and we were talking about, you know, the social processes that we had modeled in our game and this and that. And this guy just gave us the SmackDown. He basically walked up to the front of the room and said, you know, all you techies, you judge efficiency by how long it takes. He says, democracy is a completely the opposite, which is you need to sleep on it. In fact, you should be scared if somebody can decide in a minute, what is good for the community? It, two weeks later, they probably have a better idea of what's good for the community. So it almost has the opposite. And that was super interesting to me. >>That's really interesting, you know, you read the, like the, the Lincoln historians and he was criticized in the day for having taken so long, you know, to make certain decisions, but ultimately when he acted acted with, with confidence. Um, so to that point, but, um, so what, what else are you working on these days that, uh, that are, that is interesting that maybe you want to share with our audience? Anything that's really super exciting for you or you, >>Yeah. You know, generally speaking, I'm trying to try and make it a little harder for the bad guys to operate. I guess that's a general theme making it simpler for the common person to use, uh, tools. Um, again, you know, all of these security tools, no matter how fancy it is, it's not that we're losing the complexity, it's that we're moving the complexity away from the user so that they can thrive at human scale. And we can do things at machine scale and kind of working those two together is sort of the, the magic recipe. Um, it's, it's not easy, but, um, but it is, it is fun. So that's, that's what keeps me engaged. >>I'm definitely seeing, I wonder if you see it just sort of a, obviously a heightened organization awareness, but I'm also seeing shifts in the organizational structures. You know, the, you know, it used to be a sec ops team and an Island. Okay, it's your problem? You know, the, the, the CSO cannot report into the, to the CIO because that's like the Fox in the hen house, a lot of those structures are, are, are changing. It seems it'd be becoming this responsibility is coming much more ubiquitous across the organization. What are you seeing there and what are you putting on? >>And it's so familiar to me because, you know, um, I, I started out as a musician. So, you know, bands bands are a great analogy. You know, you play bass, I big guitar. You know, somebody else plays drums, everybody knows their role and you create something that's larger than, you know, the sum of all parts. And so that, that analogy I think, is coming to, you know, we, we saw it sort of with dev ops where, you know, the developer, doesn't just throw their coat over the wall and it's somebody else's problem. They move together as a band. And, and that's what I think, um, organizations are seeing is that, you know, why, why stop there? Why not include marketing? Why not include sales? Why don't we move together as a business? Not just here's the product and here's the rest of the business. That's, that's, that's pretty awesome. Um, I think, uh, we see a lot of those patterns, uh, particularly for the highly high-performance businesses. >>No, in fact, it's interesting you for great analogy, by the way. And you actually see in that within Cisco, you're seeing sort of a, and I know sometimes you guys don't like to talk about the plumbing, but I think it matters. I mean, you got a leadership structure now. I I've talked to many of them. They seem to really be more focused on how they're connect, connecting, you know, across organizations. And it's increasingly critical in this world of, you know, of silo busters, isn't it? Yeah, no, I mean, you almost, as, as you move further and further away, you know, you can see how ridiculous it was before it would be like acquiring the band and say, okay, all you can talk later is go over here. All your bass players go over there. I'm like, what happened to the band? >>That's what I'm talking about is, you know, moving all of those disciplines, moving together and servicing the same backlog and achieving the same successes together is just so awesome. Well, I always, I always feel better after talking to you. You know, I remember I remember art. Coviello used to put out his, his letter every year and I was reading. I'd get depressed. We spend all this money now we're less secure. But when I talked to you TK, I feel like much more optimistic. So I really appreciate the time you spend on the cube. It's awesome to have you as a guest. I love these, I love these sessions. So thanks. Thanks for inviting me. And I miss you. I, you know, hopefully, you know, next year we can get together at some of the Cisco shows or other shows, but be well and stay weird. Like the sign says doing my part to get Kenny, thanks so much for coming to the cube. We, uh, we really appreciate it. And thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Volante. We've right back with our next guest. This short break, >>Come back to the cubes coverage, just to keep virtuals coverage of dev net create virtual will not face to face the cubes. Been there with dev net and dev net create. Since the beginning, dev net create was really a part of the dev net community. Looking out at the external market outside of Cisco, which essentially is the cloud native world, which is going mainstream. We've got a great guest here. Who's who's been the company's been on the cube. Many times. We've been talking to them recently acquired by Cisco thousand eyes. We have Joe Vaccaro is BC vice president of product, Joe, welcome to the cube. Thanks for coming on. Great. And thanks for having me. You have the keys to the kingdom, you, the vice president of product, which means you get to look inside and you get to look outside, figure it all out, uh, make everything run on thousand eyes. >>You guys have been finding common language, uh, across multiple layers of network intelligence, external services. This is the heart of what we're seeing in innovation with multicloud microservices, cloud native. This is really a hot area. It's converging multiple theaters in technology. Super important. I want to get into that with you. But first thousand nine was recently acquired by Cisco, um, big acquisition, uh, super important new CEO of Cisco, very clear API, everything we're seeing that come out. That's a big theme at dev net create the ecosystem of Cisco's going outside their own, you know, their, their walls outside of the Cisco network operators, network engineers. We're talking to developers talk programmability. This is the big theme. What's it like at Cisco? Tell us, honestly, the COVID hits. You get acquired by Cisco, tell us what's happening. >>Yeah, surely been an exciting six months, 4,000 eyes on the entire team and our customers, you know, as we all kind of shifted to the new normal of working from home. And I think, you know, that change alone really kind of amplified. Even some of the fundamental beliefs that we have as a company that you know, cloud is becoming the new data center or customers that Indra internet has become the new network and the new enterprise network backbone. And that SAS has really become the new application stack. And as you think about these last six months, those fundamental truths have never been more evident as we rely upon the cloud to be able to, to work as we rely upon our own home networks and the internet in order to be productive. And as we access more sized applications on a daily basis. And as you think about those fundamental truths, what's common across all of them is that you rely upon them now more than ever, not only to run your business, but to any of your employees would be productive, but you don't own them. And if you don't own them, then you lack the ability in a traditional way to be able to understand that digital experience. And I think that's ultimately what, what thousand eyes is trying to solve for. And I think it's really being amplified in really these last six months. >>Talk about the COVID dynamic because I think it highlighted and certainly accelerated digital transformation, but specifically exposes opportunities, challenges, weaknesses, I've talked to many CXOs CSOs. Uh, sec security is huge. Um, home of the conference book talk track, we'll get to in a second, but exposes what's worth doubling down on what to abandon from a project standpoint, as people start to look at their priorities, they're going, Hey, we got to have a connected experience. We got to have security. People are working at home. No one has VPNs at home VPNs or passe, maybe it's way. And maybe it's something else they're on a backbone. They're connecting to the internet, a lot of different diversity in connections. At the same time, you got a ton of modern apps running along for these networks. This is a huge issue. COVID is exposed us at scale. What's your view on this? And what does thousand eyes thinking about this? >>You know, if you think about the kind of legacy application delivery, it went from largely users in an office connected over, say a dedicated corporate network, largely to traditional say internal hosted applications. And that was early simple connectivity bath. And as you mentioned, we've seen amplifications in terms of the diversity from the users. So users are not in the office. Now they're connected in distributed disparate locations that are dynamically changing. When you think that how they're getting to that application, they're going across a really complex service chain of different network services that are working together across as public internet backbone will totally to land them on an application. And then those applications themselves are becoming now, as you mentioned, distributed largely based upon a microservices architecture and increasing their own dependence upon third party sample size applications to fulfill say key functions of that application, those three things together. >>Ultimately you're creating that level of level of complex service chain that really makes it difficult to understand the digital experience. And ultimately the it organization it's really chartered with not just delivering the infrastructure, but delivering the right experience. And you have to then have a way to be able to see, to gain that visibility, that experience, you know, to measure it and understand, and to provide that intelligence and then ultimately to act on it, be able to ensure that your employees, as well as your customers are getting the right overall, um, approach to being able to leverage those assets. >>It's funny, you know, I was getting to some of these high scale environments, a lot of these concepts are converging. You know, we had terms like automation, self healing networks. Um, you mentioned microservices early, you mentioned data out of the clouds, the new data center, uh, or when's the new land. However, we're gonna look at it. It's a whole different architecture. So I want to get your thoughts on, on the automation piece of networking and internet outages, for instance, um, because when you, you know, there's so many outages going up and down, it is like, uh, catching, looking for a needle in a haystack, right. So, um, we've had this conversation with you guys on the cube before, how does automation occur when you guys look at those kinds of things? Uh, what's important to look at, can you comment on and react to, you know, the internet outages and how you find resolve those? >>Yeah. It's um, it was really great. And as you mentioned, automation really in a place that a key, when you think about the, just a broad problem that it is trying to drive and, you know, from our lens, we look at it in really three ways. You're first off is you have to be able to gain the level of visibility from where it matters and be able to, to test and be able to provide that level of active measurements across the, the type of ways you want to be able to inspect the network. But then also from the right vantage points, you want to inspect it. But what we talk about right aside, you know, data alone, doesn't solve that problem. As you mentioned, that needle in the haystack, you know, data just provides the raw metrics that are screaming across the screen, and you have to then enable that data to provide meeting. >>You need to enable that data become intelligent. And that intelligence comes through the automation of being able to process that data very quickly, allow you to be able to see the unseen, allow you to be able to quickly understand the issues that are happening across this digital supply chain to identify issues that are even happening outside of your own control across the public internet. And then the last step of automation really comes in the, of the action, right? How do you enable that intelligence to be put, to use? How do you enable that intelligence to then drive across the rest of your it workflow as well as to be able to be used as a signaling engine, to be able to then make the fundamental changes back at the network fabric, whether that is a dressing or modifying your BGB pairing, that we see happen with our customers using thousand eyes data, to be able to route around major internet outages that we've seen over the past six months, or to be able to then use that data, to be able to optimize the ultimate experience that they're delivering to both our customers, as well as their employees, >>Classic policy based activities. And you take it to a whole nother level. I got to get your thoughts on the employees working at home. Okay. Because, um, you know, most it people like, Oh yeah, we're going to forecast in cases of disruption or a hurricane or a flood or hurricane Sandy, but now with COVID, everyone's working at home. So who would have forecasted a hundred percent, um, you know, work from home, which puts a lot of pressure on him, everything. So I gotta ask you, now that employees are working at home, how do you tie network visibility to the actual user experience? >>Yeah, that's a great question. As you, you know, we saw within our own customer base, you know, when COVID head and we saw this rise of work from home, it teams are really scrambling and said, okay, I have to light up this, say VPN infrastructure, or I need to now be able to support my users in a work from home situation where I don't control the corporate network. In essence, now you have essentially thousands. Every employee is acting across their own corporate network and people were then using thousand eyes in different ways to be able to monitor their safety VPN infrastructure across, uh, back into the corporate network, as well as in using our thousand eyes end point agents that runs on a local, a user's laptop or machine in their home to help you to be able to gain that visibility down to that last mile of connectivity. >>Because when a user calls up support and says, I'm having trouble say accessing my application, whether that's Salesforce or something else, what ultimately might be causing that issue might not necessarily be a Salesforce issue, right? It could be the device and the device performance in terms of CPU, memory utilization. It could be the wifi and the signal quality within your wifi network. It could be your access point. It could be your raw, local home router. It can be your local ISP. It could be the path that you're taking ultimately to your corporate network or that application. There's so many places that could go wrong that are now difficult to be able to see, unless you have the ability to see comprehensively from the user to the application, and to be able to understand that full end to end path, >>You know, it teams have also been disrupted. They've been on offsite prop off property as well, but you got the cloud. How is your technology help the it teams? Can you give some examples there? Um, >>Yeah, great way is, you know, how people use thousand eyes as part of that data sharing ecosystem. Again, that notion of how do you go from visibility to intelligence action and we're in the past, you might be able as an it administrator to walk over to their network team and say, Hey, can you take a look at what I'm seeing now? That's no longer available. So how do you be able to work efficiently as the United organization? You know, we think a thousand eyes in how our customers are using us a thousand times becomes a common operating language that allows them to be able to analyze across from the application down into the underlying infrastructure, through those different layers of the network what's happening. And where do you need to focus your attention? And then furthermore, with 10,000 eyes in terms of a need nibbling, that data sharing ecosystem, leveraging our share link capability really gives them the ability to say, you know, here's what I'm seeing and be able to send that to anybody within the it organization, but it goes even further and many times in recent times, as well as over the course of people using thousand eyes, they take those share links and actually send them to their external providers because they're not just looking to resolve issues within their own it organization. >>They're having to work collaboratively with the different ISP that they're appearing with with their cloud providers that they're appearing, uh, they're leveraging, or the SAS applications that are part of that core dependency of how they deliver their experience. >>I asked you the question when you think about levels of visibility and making the lives easier for it, teams, um, and see a lot of benefits with thousand eyes. You pointed out a few of them. It's got to ask you the question. So if I'm an it person I'm in the trenches, are you guys have, uh, an aspirin or a vitamin or both? Can you give an example because there's a lot of pain point out there. So yeah. Give me a cup, a couple Advils and aspirins, but also you're an enabler to the new things are evolving. You pointed out some use case. You talked about the difference between where you're helping people pain points and also enabling them be successful for it teams. >>Yeah, that's a great analogy. You're thinking it, like you said, it definitely sits on both sides of that spectrum, you know, thousand eyes is the trusted tool, the source of truth for it. Organizations when issues are happening as their alarm bells are ringing, as they are generating the, um, the different, uh, on call, uh, to be able to jump into a worm situation thousand eyes is that trusted source of truth. Allow them to focus, to be able to resolve the issue in the heat of the moment. But that was a nice also when we think about baselining, your experience, what's important is not understanding that experience at that moment in time, but also how that's deviated over time. And so by leveraging thousand eyes on a continuous basis, it gives you the ability to see the history of that experience, to understand how your network is changing is as you mentioned, networks are constantly evolving, right? >>The internet itself is constantly changing. It's an organic system, and you need to be able to understand not only what are the metrics that are moving out of your balance, but then what is potentially the cause of that as a network has evolved. And then furthermore, you can be begin to use that as you mentioned, in terms of your vitamin type of an analogy, to be able to understand the health of your system over time on a baseline basis so that you can begin to be able to ensure its success in a great way to really kind of bring that to light. As people using say, thousand eyes as part of the same SC land-based rollout, where you're looking to seek benchmark and confidence as you look to scale out in either, you know, benchmarking different ISP within that, I feel like connectivity for as you look to ensure a level of success with a single branch to give you that competence, to then scale out to the rest of your organization. >>That's great insights, the classic financial model ROI, you get baseline and upside, right? You got handle the baseline as you pointed out, and the upside music experience connectivity, you know, application performance, which drives revenue, et cetera. So great point. Great insight, Joe. Thank you so much for that insight. It's got a final question for you. I want to just riff a little bit with you on the industry. A lot of us have been having debates about automation. I mean, who doesn't, who doesn't love automation. Automation is awesome, right? Automate things. But as the trend starts going on, as everything is a service or X, a S as it's called, certainly Cisco's going down that road. Talk about your view about the difference between automation and everything is a service because at the end of the day, everything will be a service, but without automation, you really can't have services, right? So, you know, automation, automation, automation, great, great drum to bang all day long, but then also you got the same business side saying as a service, as a service, pushing that into the products means not trivial. Talk about, talk about how you'd look at automation and everything as a service and the relationship and interplay between those two concepts. >>Yeah. Ultimately I think about in terms of what is the problem that the business is trying to solve in ultimately, what is the value that they're trying to face? And in many ways, right, they're being exploded with increase of data that needs, they need to be able to not only processing gather, but then be able to then make use of, and then from that, as we mentioned, once you've processed that data and you'd say, gather the insights from it. You need to be able to then act on that data. And automation plays a key role of allowing you to be able to then put that through your workflow. Because again, as that, it experience becomes even more complex as more and more services get put into that digital supply chain. As you adopt say increased complexity within your infrastructure, by moving to a multicloud architecture where you look to increase the number of say, network services that you're leveraging across that digital experience. >>Ultimately you need the level of automation. You'd be able to see outside of your own vantage point. You need to be able to look at the problem from as broad of a, a broad of a way as possible. And you know, data and automation allows you to be able to do what is fundamentally to do from a very narrow point of view, in terms of the visibility you gather intelligence you generate, and then ultimately, how do you act on that data as quick as possible to be able to provide the value of what you're looking to solve. >>It's like a feature it's under the hood. The feature of everything comes to the surface is automation, data, machine learning, all the goodness in the software. I mean, that's really kind of what we're talking about here. Isn't it a final question for you as we wrap up, uh, dev net create really, again, is going beyond Cisco's dev net community going into the industry ecosystem where developers are there. Um, these are folks that want infrastructure as code. They want network as code. So network programmability, huge topic. We've been having that conversation, uh, with Cisco and others throughout the industry for the past three years. What's your message to developers out there that are watching this who say, Hey, I just want to develop code. Like I want, you know, you guys got that. That was nice. Thanks so much. You know, you take care of that. I just want to write code. What's your message to those folks out there who want to tap some of these new services, these new automation, these new capabilities, what's your message. >>You know, ultimately I think, you know, when you look at thousand eyes, um, you know, from a product perspective, you know, we try to build our product in an API first model to allow you to be able to then shift left of how you think about that overall experience. And from a developer standpoint, you know, what I'd say is, is that while you're developing in your silo, you're going to be part of a larger ultimate system. In your experience you deliver within your application is now going to be dependent upon not only the infrastructure it's running upon, but the network gets connected to, and then ultimately the user and the stance of that user, if I leveraging a thousand eyes and being able to then integrate that into how you think closely on that experience, that's going to help ensure that ultimately the application experience that the is looking to deliver meets that objective. And I think what I would say is, you know, while you need to focus on your, uh, your role as a developer, having the understanding of how you fit into the larger ecosystem and what the reality of the, of how your users will access that application is critical. >>Awesome, Joe, thank you so much. Again, trust is everything letting people understand that what's going on underneath is going to be, you know, viable and capable. You guys got a great product and congratulations on the acquisition that Cisco made of your company. And we've been following you guys for a long time and a great technology chops, great market traction, congratulations to everyone, 1,009. Thanks for coming on today. >>I appreciate it. Thanks for having me >>Vice president of product here with thousand eyes. Now, part of Cisco, John, for your host of the cube cube virtual for dev net, create virtual. Thanks for watching. >>Even prior to the pandemic, there was a mandate to automate the hyperscale cloud companies. They've shown us that to scale. >>You really have to automate your human labor. It just can't keep up with the pace of technology. Now, post COVID that automation mandate is even more pressing. Now what about the marketplace? What are S E seeing on the horizon? The cubes Jeff Frick speaks with Cisco engineers to gather their insights and explore the definite specialized partner program. We've got >>Coon Jacobs. He's the director of systems engineering for Cisco. Good to see Kuhn, >>Thank you for having me >>And joining him as Eric nappy is the VP of system systems engineering for Cisco. Good to see Eric. Good to be here. Thank you. Pleasure. So before we jump into kind of what's going on now in this new great world of programmability and, and control, I want to kind of go back to the future for a minute, because when I was doing some research for this interview, it was Coon. I saw an old presentation that you were giving from 2006 about the changing evolution of the, uh, the changing evolution of networking and moving from. I think the theme was a human centered human centered network. And you were just starting to touch a little bit on video and online video. Oh my goodness, how far we have come, but, but I would love to get kind of a historical perspective because we've been talking a lot and I know Eric son plays football about the football analogy of the network is kind of like an offensive lineman where if they're doing a good job, you don't hear much about them, but they're really important to everything. >>And the only time you hear about them is when a flag gets thrown. So if you look back with the historical perspective, the load and the numbers and the evolution of the network, as we've moved to this modern time, and, you know, thank goodness cause of COVID hit five years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, you know, all of us in the information space would not have been able to make this transition. So I just, I just love to get some historical perspective cause you've been kind of charting this and mapping this for a very long time. >>Yeah, we absolutely have. I think, you know, what you're referring to was back in the day, the human network campaign, and to your point, the load, the number of hosts that traffic, the just overall the intelligence of the network has just evolved tremendously over these last decade and a half, uh, 15 years or so. And you look at where we are now in terms of the programmable nature of the network and what that enables in terms of new degrees of relevance that we can create for the customers. Um, and how, you know, the role of it has changed entirely again, especially during this pandemic, you know, the fact that it's now as a service and elastic, uh, is, is absolutely fundamental to being able to ensure, uh, on an ongoing basis, a great customer experience. And so, uh, it's been, it's been, uh, a very interesting ride. >>Yeah. And then, and then just to close the loop, the, one of your more later interviews talking to Sylvia, your question is, are you a developer or an engineer? So it was, and, and your whole advice to all these network engineers is just, just don't jump in and start doing some coding and learning. So, you know, the focus and really the emphasis and where the opportunity to differentiate as a company is completely shifting gears over to the S you know, really software defined side. >>Oh, absolutely. So, I mean, you look at how the software world and the network has come together and how we're applying now, you know, basically the same construct of CICB pipeline to network, uh, infrastructure, look at network really as code and get all of the benefits from that. And the familiarity of it, the way that our engineers have had to evolve. And that is just, you know, quite, quite significant in, in, in like the skill set. And the best thing is jump in, right. Um, you know, dip your toe in the water, but continue to evolve that skill set. And, uh, you know, don't, don't be shy. It's, it's a leap of faith for some of us who've been in the industry a bit longer. Uh, you know, we like to look at ourselves as the craftsman of the network, but now it's definitely a software centricity and programmability, right? >>So Eric, you've got some digital exhaust out there too, that I was able to dig up going back to 2002 752 page book, and the very back corner of a dark dirty dusty Amazon warehouse is managing Cisco network security, 752 pages. Wow. How has security changed from a time where before I could just read a book, a big book and, you know, throw some protocols in and probably block a bunch of ports to the world that we live in today, where everything is connected. Everything is API driven, everything is software defined. You've got pieces of workloads spread out all over the place and Oh, by the way, you need to bake security in at every single level of the application stack. >>Yeah, no I'm so, wow. Cocoon is that you, you found that book on the I'm really impressed. There was a thank you a little street, correct. So, uh, I want to hit on something that you, you talked about. Cause I think it's very important to, to this overall conversation. If we think about the scale of the network and Coon hit on it briefly, you talked about it as well. We're seeing a massive explosion of devices by the I, you know, it's estimated by the end of this year, there's going to be about 27 billion devices on the global internet. That's about 3.7 devices for every man, woman and child life. And if we extrapolate that out over the course of the next decade on the growth trajectory we're on. And if you look at some of the published research on this, it's estimated there could be upwards of 500 billion devices accessing the global internet on a, on a daily basis. >>And primarily that, that, that is a IOT devices. That's digitally connected devices. Anything that can be connected will be connected, but then introduces a really interesting security challenge because every one of those devices that is accessing the global internet is within a company's infrastructure or accessing pieces of corporate data is a potential attack factor. So we really need to, and I think the right for this is we need to reimagine security because security is, as you said, not about perimeters. You know, I wrote that book back in 2002, I was talking about firewalls and a cutting edge technology was intrusion prevention and intrusion detection. Now we need to look at security really in the, in the guise of, or under the, under the, under the realm of really two aspects, the identity who is accessing the data in the context, what data is being accessed. >>And that is going to require a level of intelligence, a level of automation and the technologies like machine learning and automated intelligence are going to be our artificial intelligence rather are going to be table stakes because the sheer scale of what we're trying to secure is going to be untenable, undercurrent, you know, just current security practices. I mean, the network is going to have to be incredibly intelligent and leverage again, a lot of that, uh, that AI type of data to match patterns of potential attacks and ideally shut them down before they ever cause any type of damage. >>Really interesting. I mean, one thing that COVID has done a bunk many things is kind of retaught us all about the power of exponential curves and how extremely large those things are and how fast they grow. We had Dave runs and on a Google cloud a couple of years ago. And I remember him talking about early days of Google when they were starting to map out kind of, as you described kind of map out their growth curves, and they just figured out they could not hire if they hired everybody, they couldn't hire enough people to deal with it. Right. So really kind of rethinking automation and rethinking about the way that you manage these things and the level, right. The old, is it a pet or is it, or is it, um, uh, part of a herd? And I think it's interesting what you talked about, uh, can really the human powered internet and being driven by a lot of this video, but to what you just said, Eric, the next big wave, right. >>Is IOT and five G. And I think, you know, you talk about 3.7 million devices per person. That's nothing compared to right. All these sensors and all these devices and all these factories, cause five G is really targeted to machine the machines, which there's a lot of them and they trade a lot of information really, really quickly. So, you know, I want to go back to you Coon thinking about this next great wave in a five G IOT kind of driven world where it's kind of like when voice kind of fell off compared to IP traffic on the network. I think you're going to see the same thing, kind of human generated data relative to machine generated data is also going to fall off dramatically as a machine generated data, just skyrocket through the roof. >>Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think too, also what Eric touched on the visibility on that, and they'd be able to process that data at the edge. That's going to catalyze cloud adoption even further, and it's going to know, make the role of the network, the connectivity of it all and the security within that crucially important. And then you look at the role of programmability within that. We're seeing the evolution going so fast. You look at the element of the software defined network in an IOT speed space. We see that we have hosts there that are not necessarily, um, you know, behaving like other hosts would, uh, on a network, for example, manufacturing floor, uh, production robot, or a security camera. And what we're seeing is we're seeing partners and customers employing program ability to make sure that we overcome some of the shortcomings, uh, in terms of where the network is at, but then how do you customize it in terms of the relevance that it can provide, uh, bringing on board, uh, those, uh, those hosts in a very transparent way, and then, you know, keep, keep the agility of it and keep the speed of innovation going. >>Right. >>Right. So Eric, I want to come back to you and shift gears kind of back to the people will leave the IOT and the machines along, along for a minute, but I'm curious about what does beat the boss. I mean, I go to your LinkedIn profile and it's just filled with congratulatory statements, but everyone's talking about beating the boss. You know, it's, it's a really, you know, kind of interesting and different way to, to motivate people, to build this new skillset in terms of getting software certifications, uh, within the Cisco world. And I just thought it was really cute the way that you clearly got people motivated, cause there's posts all over the place and they've all got their, their nice big badge or their certification, but, you know, at a higher level, it is a different motivation to be a developer versus an engineer and a technician. And it's kind of a different point of view. And I just wonder if you could share, you know, some of the ways that you're, you're kind of encouraging, you know, kind of this transformation within your own workforce, as well as the partners, et cetera, and really adopting kind of almost a software first and this program kind of point of view versus, you know, I'm just wiring stuff up. >>Apparently a lot of people like to beat me. So of itself was a, was a, it was a great success, but you know, if we think we take a step back, you know, what is Cisco about as an organization? Um, I mean obviously if you look back to the very early days of our vision, right, it was, it was to change the way the world worked, played, live and learn. And that you think about, and you hit on this when we were, you know, you were discussion with co with Kuhn in the early days of COVID. We really saw that play out as so much shifted from, you know, in-person type of interactions to virtual interactions in the network that, uh, that our, our customers, our partners, our employees built over the course of the last several, the last three decades really helped the world continue to, um, to, to do business for students to continue to go to school or clinicians, to connect with patients. >>If I think about that mission to meet programmability is just the next iteration of that mission, continuing to enable the world to communicate, continuing, to enable customers, employees, uh, partners, uh, to essentially leverage the network for more than just connectivity now to leverage it for critical insight. Again, if we look at some of the, uh, some of the use cases that we're seeing for social distancing and contact tracing and network has a really important place to play there because we can pull insight from it, but it isn't necessarily an out of the box type of integration. So I look at programmability and in what we're doing with, with dev net to give relevance to the network for those types of really critical conversations that every organization is having right now, it's a way to extrapolate. It's a way to pull critical data so that I can make a decision. >>And if that decision is automated, or if that decision requires some type of a manual intervention, regardless, we're still about connecting. And in this case, we're connecting insight with the people who need it most, right. The debit challenge we ran is really in respect for how critical this new skill set is going to be. It's not enough. Like I said, just to connect the world anymore. We need to leverage that network, the network for that critical insight. And when we drove, we were, we created the beat, the boss challenge. It was really simple. Hey guys, I think this is important and I am going to go out and I'm going to achieve the certification myself, because I want to continue to be very relevant. I want to continue to be able to provide that insight for my customers and partners. So therefore I'm going for it. Anybody that can get there before me, maybe there's a little incentive tied to the incentive. Although it's funny, we interviewed a lot of, a lot of our team who, uh, who achieved it when incentive was secondary. They just wanted to have the bragging rights, like, yeah, I beat Eric, right. >>You know, putting your money where your mouth is, right. If it's important, then why, you know, you should do it too. And, and you know, the whole, you're not asking people to do what you wouldn't do yourself. So I think there's a lot of good leadership, uh, leadership lessons there as well. But I want to extend kind of the conversation on the covert impact, right? Cause I'm sure you've seen all the social media meme, you know, who's driving your digital transformation, the CEO, the CMO or COVID. And we all know the answer to the question, but you know, you guys have already been dealing with kind of an increased complexity around enterprise infrastructure world in terms of cloud and public cloud and hybrid cloud and multi cloud. And people are trying to move stuff all, all the way around now suddenly had this COVID moment right in, in March, which is really a light switch moment. >>People didn't have time to plan or prepare for suddenly everybody working from home. And it's not only you, but your spouse and your kids and everybody else. So, but now we're six months plus into this thing. And I would just love to get your perspective and kind of the change from, Oh my goodness, we have to react to the light switch moment. What do we do to make sure people can, can get, get what they need when they need it from where they are. Uh, but, but then really moving from this is a, an emergency situation, a stop gap situation to, Hmm, this is going to extend for some period of time. And even when it's the acute crisis is over, you know, this is going to drive a real change in the way that people communicate in the way that people, where they sit and their jobs and, and kind of how customers are responding accordingly as the, you know, kind of the narrative has changed from an emergency stop gap to this is the new normal that we really need to plan for. >>So, uh, I think, I think you said it very well. I think anything that could be digitized, any, any interaction that could be driven virtually was, and what's interesting is we, as you said, we went from that light switch moment where I believe the stat is this, and I'll probably get the number wrong, but like in the United States here at the beginning, at the end of February, about 2% of the knowledge worker population was virtual, you know, working from home or in a remote work environment. And over the course of about 11 days, that number went from 2% to 70%. Wow. Interesting that it worked, you know, there was a lot of hiccups along the way, and there was a lot of organizations making really quick decisions on how do I enable VPN scale of mass? How do I, you know, leverage, uh, you know, things like WebEx for virtual meetings and virtual connectivity, uh, much faster now that as you said, that we kinda gotten out of the fog of war or frog fog of battle organizations are looking at what they accomplished. >>And it was nothing short of Herculean and looking at this now from a transition to, Oh my gosh, we need to change too. We have an opportunity to change. And we're looking, we see a lot of organizations specifically around, uh, financial services, healthcare, uh, the, uh, the K through 20, uh, educational environment, all looking at how can they do more virtually for a couple of reasons. Obviously there is a significant safety factor. And again, we're still in that we're still on the height of this pandemic. They want to make sure their employees, their customers, students, patients remain safe. But second, um, we've found in, in discussions with a lot of senior it executives that are customers that people are happier working from home. People are more productive working from home. And that, again, the network that's been built over the course of the last few decades has been resilient enough to allow that to happen. >>And then third, there is a potential cost savings here outside of people. The next most expensive resource that organizations are paying for is real estate. If they can shrink that real estate footprint while providing a better user experience at the locations that they're maintaining, again, leveraging things like location services, leveraging things like a unified collaboration. That's very personalized to the end user's experience. They're going to do that. And again, they're going to save money. They're going to have happier employees and ultimately they're going to make their, uh, their employees and their customers a lot safer. So we see, we believe that there is in some parts of the economy, a shift that is going to be more permanent in some estimates, put it as high as 15% of the current workforce is going to >>Stay in a virtual or a semi virtual working environment for the foreseeable future. >>Interesting. And I, and I, and I would say, I'd say 15% is low, especially if you, if you qualify it with, you know, part-time right. I, there was a great interview we were doing and talking about working from home, we used to work from home as the exception, right? Cause the cable person was coming, are you getting a new washing machine or something where now that's probably getting, you know, in many cases we'll shift to the other where I'm generally going to work from home, unless, you know, somebody is in town or having an important meeting or there's some special collaboration, uh, that drives me to be in. But you know, I want to go back to you Kuhn and, and really doubled down on, you know, I think most people spent too much time focusing, especially, we'll just say within the virtual events space where we play on the things you can't do virtually, we can't meet in the hall. >>We can't grab a quick coffee and a drink instead of focusing on the positive things like we're accomplishing right here, you're in Belgium, right. Eric is in Ohio, we're in California. Um, and you know, we didn't take three days to travel and, and check into a hotel and, and all that stuff to get together, uh, for this period of time. So there's a lot of stuff that digital enables. And I think, you know, people need to focus more on that versus continuing to focus on the two or three things that, that it doesn't replace and it doesn't replace those. So let's just get that off the table and move on with our lives. Cause those aren't coming back anytime soon. >>No, totally. I think it's the balance of those things. It's guarding the fact that you're not necessarily working for home. I think the trick there is you could be sleeping at the office, but I think the positives are way, way more outspoken. Um, I, you know, I look at myself, I got much more exercise time in these last couple of months than I usually do because you don't travel. You don't have the jet lag and the connection. And then you talked about those face to face moments. I think a lot of people are in a way, um, wanting to go back to the office part-time as, as Eric also explain, but a lot of it you can do virtually we have virtual coffees with team, or, you know, even here in Belgium, our local general manager has a virtual effort, TIF every Friday, obviously skip the one this week. But, uh, you know, there's, there's ways to be very creative with the technology and the quality of the technology that enables, um, you know, to, to get the best of both worlds. Right? >>So I just, we're going to wrap the segment. I want to give you guys both the last word you both been at Cisco for a while and, you know, Susie, we, and the team on dev net has really grown this thing. I think we were there at the very beginning couple of four or five, six years ago. I can't keep track of time anymore, but it has really, really grown. And, you know, the timing is terrific to get into this more software defined world, which is where we are. I wonder if you could just, you know, kind of share a couple of thoughts as you know, with a little bit of perspective and you know, what you're excited about today and kind of what you see coming down the road since you guys have been there for a while you've been in this space, uh, let's start with Yukon. >>I think the possibility it creates, I think really programmability software defined is really >>About the art of the possible it's what you can dream up and then go code. Um, Eric talked about the relevance of it and how it maximizes the relevance on a customer basis. Um, you know, and then it is the evolution of the teams in terms of the creativity that they can bring to us. We've seen really people dive into that and customers co-creating with us. And I think that's where we're going in terms of the evolution of the value proposition there in terms of what technology can provide, but also how it impacts people as we discussed and redefines process >>That the art of the possible, which is a lot harder to execute in a, in hardware than software certainly takes a lot longer. I'd love to get your, uh, your thoughts. >>Absolutely. So I started my career at Cisco, uh, turning, uh, putting IP phones onto the network. And back then, you know, it was, you know, 2001, 2002, when, uh, the idea of putting telephones onto the network was such a, um, just such an objectionable idea. And so many purists were telling us all the reasons it wouldn't work. Now, if we go forward again, 19 years, the idea of not having them plugging into the network is a ridiculous idea. So we have a, we're looking at an inflection point in this industry and it's really, it's not about programming. It's not necessarily about programming. It's about doing it smarter. It's about being more efficient. It's about driving automation, but again, it's, it's about unlocking the value of what the network is. We've moved so far past. What can, you know, just connectivity, the network touches everything and there's more workload moves to the cloud is more workload moves to things like containers. >>Um, the network is the really, the only common element that ties all of these things together. The network needs to take its rightful place in the end, the it lexicon as being that critical or that critical insight provider, um, for, for how users are interacting with the network, how users are interacting with applications, how applications are interacting with one, another program ability is a way to do that more efficiently, uh, with greater a greater degree of certainty with much greater relevance into the overall delivery of it services and digitization. So to me, I think we're going to look back 20 years from now, probably even 10 and say, man, we used to configure things manually. What was that like? I think, I think really this is, this is the future. And I think we want to be aligned with where we're going versus where we've been. Right. >>Well, Coon, Eric, thank you for sharing your perspective. You know, it's, it's really nice to have, you know, some historical reference, uh, and it's also nice to be living in a new age where you can, you can, you know, stay at the same company and still refresh, you know, new challenges, new opportunities and grow this thing. Cause as you said, I remember those IP first IP phone days and I thought, well, my bell must be happy because the old mother's problem is finally solved. And when we don't have to have a dedicated connection between every mother and every child in the middle of may. So good news. So thank you very much for sharing your, uh, your insights and really, uh, really enjoyed the conversation. >>Thank you. >>We've been covering dev net create for a number of years. I think since the very first show and Susie, we and the team really built, uh, a practice built a company, built a lot of momentum around software in the Cisco ecosystem and in getting devs really to start to build applications and drive kind of the whole software defined networking thing forward. And a big part of that is partners and working with partners and, and developing solutions and, you know, using brain power. That's outside of the four walls of Cisco. So we're excited to have, uh, our next guest, uh, partner for someone is Brad Hoss. He is the engineering director for dev ops at Presidio, Brad. Great to see you. >>Hey Jeff, great to be here. >>And joining him is Chuck Stickney. Chuck is the business development architect for Cisco DevNet partners and he has been driving a whole lot of partner activity for a very long period of time. Chuck, great to see you. >>Thanks Jeff. Great to be here and looking forward to this conversation. >>So let's, let's start with you Chuck, because I think, um, you know, you're leading this kind of partner effort and, and you know, software defined, networking has been talked about for a long time and you know, it's really seems to be maturing and, and software defined everything right. Has been taking over, especially with, with virtualization and moving the flexibility and the customer program ability customability in software and Mo and taking some of that off the hardware. Talk about, you know, the programs that you guys are putting together and how important it is to have partners to kind of move this whole thing forward, versus just worrying about people that have Cisco badges. >>Yeah, Jeff, absolutely. So along this whole journey of dev net where we're, we're trying to leverage that customization and innovation built on top of our Cisco platforms, most of Cisco's business is transacted through partners. And what we hear from our customers and our partners is they want to, our customers want a way to be able to identify, does this partner have the capabilities and the skills necessary to help me go down this automation journey I'm trying to do, do a new implementation. I want to automate that. How can I find a partner to, to get there? And then we have some of our partners that have been building these practices going along this step, in that journey with us for the last six years, they really want to say, Hey, how can I differentiate myself against my competitors and give an edge to my customers to show them that, yes, I have these capabilities. I've built a business practice. I have technology, I have technologists that really understand this capability and they have the dub net certifications to prove it helped me be able to differentiate myself throughout our ecosystem. So that's really what our Danette partner specialization is all about. Right. >>That's great. And Brad, you're certainly one of those partners and I want to get your perspective because partners are oftentimes a little bit closer to the customer cause you've got your kind of own set of customers that you're building solutions and just reflect on, we know what happened, uh, back in March 15th, when basically everybody was told to go home and you can't go to work. So, you know, there's all the memes and social media about who, you know, who pushed forward your digital transformation, the CEO, the CMO, or COVID. And we all know what the answer is, whatever you can share some information as to what happened then, and really for your business and your customers, and then reflect now we're six months into it, six months plus, and, and you know, this new normal is going to continue for a while. How's the customer attitudes kind of changed now that they're kind of buckled down past the light switch moment and really we need to put in place some foundation to carry forward for a very long time potentially. >>Yeah, it's really quite interesting actually, you know, when code first hit, we got a lot of requests to help with automation of provisioning our customers and in the whole, you know, digital transformation got really put on hold for a little bit there and I'd say it became more of, of the workplace transformation. So we were quickly, uh, you know, migrating customers to, you know, new typologies where instead of the, the, you know, users sitting in those offices, they were sitting at home and we had to get them connected rapidly in a, we, we didn't have a lot of success there in those beginning months with, you know, using automation and programmability, um, building, you know, provisioning portals for our customers to get up and running really fast. Um, and that, that, that was what it looked like in those early days. And then over time, I'd say that the asks from our customers has started to transition a little bit. >>You know, now they're asking, you know, how can I take advantage of the technology to, you know, look at my offices in a different way, you know, for example, you know, how many people are coming in and out of those locations, you know, what's the usage of my conference rooms. Um, are there, uh, are there, um, situations where I can use that information? Like how many people are in the building and at a certain point in time and make real estate decisions on that, you know, like, do I even need this office anymore? So, so the conversations have really changed in, in ways that you couldn't have imagined before March. >>Right. And I wonder with, with you Chuck, in terms of the Cisco point of view, I mean, the network is amazing. It had had, COVID struck five years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, you know, clearly there's a lot of industries that are suffering badly entertainment, um, restaurant, business, transportation, they, you know, hospitality, but for those of us in kind of the information industry, the switch was pretty easy. Um, you know, and, and the network enables the whole thing. And so I wonder if, you know, kind of from your perspective as, as suddenly, you know, the importance of the network, the importance of security and the ability now to move to this new normal very quickly from a networking perspective. And then on top of that, having, you know, dev net with, with the software defined on top, you guys were pretty much in a good space as good as space as you could be given this new challenge thrown at you. >>Yeah, Jeff, we completely agree with that. Uh, Cisco has always pushed the idea that the network is transformational. The network is the foundation, and as our customers have really adopted that message, it is enabled that idea for the knowledge workers to be able to continue on. So for myself, I've, I've worked for home the entire time I've been at Cisco. So the last 13 years, this is, you know, the, the change to the normalcy is I never get on a plane anymore, but my day to day functions are still the same. And it's built because of the capabilities we have with the network. I think the transition that we've seen in the industry, as far as kind of moving to that application type of economy, as we go to microservices, as we go to a higher dependency upon cloud, those things have really enabled the world really to be able to better respond to this, to this COVID situation. And I think it's helped to, to justify the investments that's that our customers have made as well as what our partners have been, being able to do to deliver on that multicloud capability, to take those applications, get them closer to the end user instead of sitting in a common data center and then making it more applicable to, to users wherever they may be, not just inside of that traditional four walls. >>Right, right. That's interesting. And Brad, you, you made a comment on another interview. I was watching getting ready for this one in terms of, uh, applications now being first class citizens was, was what you said. And it's kind of interesting coming from an infrastructure point of view, where before it was, you know, what do I have and what can I build on it now, I really it's the infrastructure that responds back to the application. And even though you guys are both in the business of, of networking and infrastructure, it's still this recognition that apps first is the way to go, because that gives people the competitive advantage that it gives them the ability to react in the marketplace and to innovate and move faster. So, you know, it's, it's a really interesting twist to be able to support an application first, by having a software defined in a more programmable infrastructure stack. >>Yeah, no doubt. And, you know, I think that the whole push to cloud was really interesting in the early days, it was like, Hey, we're going to change our applications to be cloud first. You know? And then I think the terminology changed over time, um, to more cloud native. So when we, when we look at what cloud has done over the past five years with customers moving, you know, their, their assets into the cloud in the early days that we were all looking at it just >>Like another data center, but what it's really become is a place to host your applications. So when we talk about cloud migrations with our customers now, we're, we're no longer talking about, you know, the assets per se, we're talking about the applications and what, what did those applications look like? And even what defines an application right now, especially with the whole move to cloud native and microservices in the automation that helps make that all happen with infrastructure as code. You're now able to bundle the infrastructure with those applications together as a single unit. So when you define that application, as infrastructure, as code the application in the definition of what those software assets for the infrastructure are, all are wrapped together and you've got change control, version control, um, and it's all automated, you know, it's, it's a beautiful thing. And I think it's something that we've all kind of hoped would happen. >>You know, when I look back at the early definitions of software defined networking, I think everybody was trying to figure it out and they didn't really fully understand what that meant now that we can actually define what that network infrastructure could look like as it's, as it's wrapped around that application in a code template, maybe that's Terraform or Ansible, whatever that might be, whatever method or tool that you're using to, to bring it all together. It's, it's, you know, it's really interesting now, I think, I think we've gotten to the point where it's starting to make a lot more sense than, you know, those early days of SDN, uh we're out, you know, it was a, was it a controller or is it a new version of SNMP? You know, now it makes sense. It's actually something tangible. Right, >>Right. But still check, as you said, right. There's still a lot of API APIs and there's still a lot of component pieces to these applications that are all run off the network that all have to fit, uh, that had to fit together. You know, we cover PagerDuty summit and you know, their whole thing is trying to find out where the, where the problems are within the very few microseconds that you have before the customer abandons their shopping cart or whatever the particular application. So again, the network infrastructure and the program ability super important. But I wonder if you could speak to the automation because there's just too much stuff going on for individual people to keep track of, and they shouldn't be keeping track of it because they need to be focusing on the important stuff, not this increasing amount of bandwidth and traffic going through the network. >>Yeah, absolutely. Jeff said the bandwidth that's necessary in order to support everybody working from home to support this video conference. I mean, we, we used to do this sitting face to face. Now we're doing this over the internet. The amount of people necessary to, to be able to facilitate that type of traffic. If we're doing it the way we did 10 years ago, we would not >>Scale it's automation. That makes that possible. That allows us to look higher up the ability to do that automatic provisional provisioning. Now that we're in microservices now that everything is cloud native, we have the ability to, to better, to better adjust to and adapt to changes that happen with the infrastructure below hand. So if something goes wrong, we can very quickly spend something up to take that load off where traditionally it was open up a ticket. Let me get someone in there, let me fix it. Now it's instantaneously identify the solution, go to my playbook, figure out exactly what solution I need to deploy and put that out there. And the network engineering team, the infrastructure engineering team, they just simply need to get notified that this happened. And as long as there's traceability and a point that Brad made, as far as you being able to go through here doing the automation of the documentation side of it. >>I know when I was a network engineer, one of the last things we ever did was documentation. But now that we have the API is from the infrastructure. And then the ability to tie that into other systems like an IP address management or a change control, or a trouble ticketing system, that whole idea of I made an infrastructure change. And now I can automatically do that documentation update and record. I know who did it. I know when they did it and I know what they did, and I know what the test results were even five years ago, that was fantasy land. Now, today that's just the new normal, that's just how we all operate. >>Right. Right, right. So I want to get your take on the other trend, which is cloud multicloud, public cloud. You know, as, as I think you said Brad, when public cloud first came out, there was kind of this, this rush into, we're going to throw everything in there then for, for, for different reasons. People decided maybe that's not the best, the best solution, but really it's horses for courses. Right. And, and I think it was pretty interesting that, that you guys are all supporting the customers that are trying to figure out where they're going to put their workloads. And Oh, by the way, that might not be a static place, right. It might be moving around based on, you know, maybe I do my initial dev and, and, and Amazon. And then when I go into production, maybe I want to move it into my data center. >>And then maybe I'm having a big promotion or something I want to flex capability. So from, from your perspective and helping customers work through this, because still there's a lot of opinions about what is multicloud, what is hybrid cloud and, you know, it's horses for courses. How are you helping people navigate that? And what does having programmable infrastructure enable you to do for helping customers kind of sort through, you know, everybody talks about their journey. I think there's still kind of bumbling down, bumbling down paths, trying to find new things, what works, what doesn't work. And I think it's still really early days and trying to mesh all this stuff together. Yeah, >>Yeah. No doubt. It is still early days. And you know, I, I, I go back to it being application centric because, you know, being able to understand that application, when you move to the cloud, it may not look like, what did he still look like when you, when you move it over there, you may be breaking parts off of it. Some of them might be running on a platform as a service while other pieces of it are running as infrastructure as a service. >>And some of it might still be in your data center. Those applications are becoming much more complex than they used to be because we're breaking them apart into different services. Those services could live all over the place. So with automation, we really gain the power of being able to combine those things. As I mentioned earlier, those resources, wherever they are, can be defined in that infrastructure as code and automation. But you know, the side from provisioning, I think we focus a lot about provisioning. When we talk about automation, we also have these amazing capabilities on, on the side of operations too. Like we've got streaming telemetry in the ability to, to gain insights into what's going on in ways that we didn't have before, or at least in the, in, you know, in the early days of monitoring software, right. You knew exactly what that device was, where it was. >>It probably had a friendly name, like maybe it was, uh, something from the Hobbit right now. You've got things coming up and spinning and spinning up and spinning down, moving all over the place. And that thing you used to know what that was. Now, you have to quickly figure out where it went. So the observability factor is a huge thing that I think everybody should be paying attention to attention, to moving forward with regards to when you're moving things to the cloud or even to other data centers or, you know, in your premise, um, breaking that into microservices, you really need to understand what's going on in the, you know, programmability and API APIs and, you know, yang models are tied into streaming telemetry. Now there's just so many great things coming out of this, you know, and it's all like a data structure that, that people who are going down this path and the dev net path, they're learning these data structures and being able to rationalize and make sense of them. And once you understand that, then all of these things come together, whether it's cloud or a router or switch, um, Amazon, you know, it doesn't matter. You're, you're all speaking a common language, which is that data structure. >>That's great. Chuck, I want to shift gears a little bit, cause there was something that you said in another interview when I was getting ready for this one about, about Deb, not really opening up a whole different class of partners for Cisco, um, as, as really more of a software, a software lead versus kind of the traditional networking lead. I wonder if you can put a little more color on that. Um, because clearly as you said, partners are super important. It's your primary go to market and, and Presidios, I'm sure the best partner that you have in the whole world that's and you know, you said there's some, there's some non traditional people that would not ever be a Cisco partner that suddenly you guys are playing with because of really software lead. >>Yeah. Jeff that's exactly right. So as we've been talking to folks with dev nets and whether it'd be at one of the Cisco live events in the dev net zone or at the prior dev net create events, we'll have, we'll have people come up to us who Cisco today views us as a customer because they're not in our partner ecosystem. They want to be able to deliver these capabilities to our customers, but they have no interest in being in the resell market. This what we're doing with the dev that specialization gives us the ability to bring those partners into the ecosystem, share them with our extremely large dev net community so they can get access to those, to those potential customers. But also it allows us to do partner to partner type of integration. So Brad and Presidio, they built a fantastic networking. They always have the fantastic networking business, but they built this fantastic automation business that's there, but they may come into, into a scenario where it's working with their vertical and working with the technology piece, that they may not have an automation practice for. >>We can leverage some of these software specific partners to come in there and do a joint, go to markets where, so they can go where that traditional channel partner can leverage their deep Cisco knowledge in those customer relationships that they have and bring in that software partner almost as a subcontractor to help them deliver that additional business value on top of that traditional stack, that brings us to this business outcomes. If the customers are looking for and a much faster fashion and a much more collaborative fashion, that's terrific. Well, again, it's a, it's, it's unfortunate that we can't be in person. I mean, the, the Cisco dev net shows, you know, they're still small, they're still intimate. There's still a lot of, uh, information sharing and, you know, great to see you. And like I said, we've been at the computer museum, I think the last couple of years and in, in San Francisco. So I look forward to a time that we can actually be together, uh, maybe, maybe for next year's event, but, uh, thank you very much for stopping by and sharing the information. Really appreciate it. It happens happy to be here >>From around the globe. It's the cube presenting, accelerating automation with dev net brought to you by Cisco. What I'm Sean for the cube, your host for accelerating automation with dev net with Cisco. And we're here to close out the virtual event with Mindy Whaley, senior director, Mandy, take it away. >>Thank you, John. It's been great to be here at this virtual event, hearing all these different automation stories from our different technology groups, from customers and partners. And what I'd like to take a minute now is to let people know how they can continue this experience at dev net create, which is our free virtual event happening globally. On October 13th, there's going to be some really fun stuff. We're going to have our annual demo jam, which is kind of like an open for demos where the community gets to show what they've been building. We're also going to be, um, giving out and recognizing our dev net creator award winners for this year, which is a really great time where we recognize our community contributors who have been giving back to the community throughout the year. And then we find really interesting channels. We have our creators channels, which is full of technical talks, lightening talks. >>This is where our community, external Cisco people come in share what they've been working on, what they've been working learning during the year. We also have a channel called API action, which is where you can go deep into IOT or collaboration or data center automation and get demos talks from engineers on how to do certain use cases. And also a new segment called straight from engineering, where you get to hear from the engineers, building those products as well. And we have a start now for those people just getting started, who may need to dive into some basics around coding, API APIs and get that's a whole channel dedicated to getting them started so that they can start to participate in some of the fun challenges that we're going to have during the event. And we're going to have a few fun things. Like we have some definite, um, advocate team members who are awesome, musically talented. They're going to share some performances with us. So, um, we encourage everyone to join us there. Pick your favorite channel, uh, join us in whichever time zone you live in. Cause we'll be in three different time zones. And, um, we would love for you to be there and to hear from you during the event. >>That's awesome. Very innovative, multiple time zones, accelerating automation with dev net. Thank you so much for watching and we'll see you at dev net create thanks for watching.

our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley Palo Alto California this is a cute conversation welcome to another wiki bond digital community event this one's sponsored by Columbia I'm your host Peter Burris any business that aspires to be a digital business needs to think about its data differently it needs to think about how data can be applied to customer experience value propositions operations that improve profitability and strategic options for the business as it moves forward but that means openly either we're thinking about how we embed data more deeply into our operations that means we must also think about how we're going to protect that data so the business does not suffer because someone got a hold of our data or corrupted our data or that a system just failed and we needed to restore that data very quickly now what we want to be able to do is we want to do that in a way that's natural and looks a lot like a cloud because we want that cloud experience in our data protection as well so that's we're going to talk about with clue Meo today a lot of folks think in terms of moving all the data into the cloud we think increasingly we have to recognize a cloud is not a strategy for centralizing data but rather distributing data and being able to protect that data where it is utilizing a simple common cloud like experience it's becoming an increasingly central competitive need for a lot of digital enterprises the first conversation we had was with a puja and Kumar who John is a CEO and co-founder of comeö let's hear a puja I had to say about data value data services and clue me oh who john welcome to the show Thank You Bertram nice to be here so give us the update in Colombia so Tomio is a two year old company right we just recently launched out of stealth so so far you know we we came out with the innovative offering which is a SAS solution to go and protect on premises you know VMware and BMC environments that's what we launched out of style two months ago we our best of show when we came out of stealth in in VMware 2019 well ultimately we started with a vision about you know protecting data irrespective of where it resides so it was all about you know you know on-premises on cloud and other SAS services so one single service that protects data irrespective of where it resides so far we executed on on-premises VMware and VM see today what we are announcing for the first time is our protection to go and protect applications natively built on AWS so these are applications that an aptitude natively built on AWS that clue me or as a service will protect irrespective of you know them running you know in one region or cross region cross accounts and a single service that will allow our customers to protect native AWS applications the other big announcement we are making is a new round of financing and that is testament to the interest in the space and the innovative nature of the platform that we have built so when we came out of stealth we announced we had raised two rounds of financing 51 million dollars in series a and Series B rounds of financing today what we are announcing is a Series C round of financing of 135 million dollars the largest I would say Series C financing for a SAS enterprise company especially a company that's a little over two years old Oh congratulations that's gonna buy a lot of new technology and a lot of customer engagement but what customers as I said up from where customers are really looking for is they're looking for tooling and methods and capabilities that allow them to treat their data differently talk a little bit about the central importance of data and how it's driving decisions of Cluny oh yes so fundamentally you know when we built out the the data platform it was about going after the data protection as the first use case in the platform longer term the journey really is to go from a data protection company to a data management company and this is possible for the first time because you have the public cloud on your side if you truly built a platform for the cloud on the public cloud you have this distinct advantage of now taking the data that you're protecting and really leveraging it for others that you can enable the enterprise for and this is exactly what enterprises are asking for especially as they you know you know make a transition from on-premises to the public cloud where they are powering on more and more applications in the public cloud and they really you know sometimes have no idea in terms of where the data is sitting and how they can take advantage of all these data sources that ultimately Klum is protecting well no idea where the data is sitting take advantage of these data sources presumably facilitate new classes of integration because that's how you generate value out of data that suggests that we're not just looking at protection as crucially important as it is we're looking at new classes of services they're going to make it possible to alter the way you think about data management if I got that right and what are those new services yes it's it's a journey as I said right so starting with you know again data protection it's also about doing data protection across multiple clouds right so ultimately we are a platform even though we are announcing you know AWS you know application support today we've already done VMware and VM C as we go along you'll see us kind of doing this across multiple clouds so an application that's built on the cloud running across multiple clouds AWS asher and GC p or whatever it might be you see as kind of doing data protection across in applications in multiple clouds and then it's about going and saying you know can we take advantage of the data that we are protecting and really power on adjacent use cases you know they could be security use cases because we know exactly what's changing when it's changing there could be infrastructure analytics use cases because people are running tens of thousands of instances and containers and n VMs in the public cloud and if a problem happens nobody really knows what caused it and we have all the data and we can kind of you know index it in the backend analyze in the backend without the customer needing to lift a finger and really show them what happened in their environment that they didn't know about right so there's a lot of interesting use cases that get powered on because you have the ability to index all the data here you have the ability to essentially look at all the changes that are happening and really give that visibility to the end customer and all of this one-click and automating it without the customer needing to do much I will tell you this that we've talked to a number of customers of Cuneo and the fundamental choice the clue mio choice was simplicity how are you going to sustain that even as you add these new classes of services yes that is the key right and that is about the foundation we have built at the end of the day right so if you look at all of our customers that have you know on-boarded today it's really the experience where in less than you know 15 minutes they can essentially start enjoying the power of the platform and the backend that we have built and the focus on design that we have is ultimately why we are able to do this with simplicity so so when we when we think about you know all the things we do in the backend there's obviously a lot of complexity in the backend because it is a complex platform but every time we ask ourselves the question that okay from a customer perspective how do we make sure that it is one click and easy for them so that focus and that attention to detail that we have behind the scenes to make sure that the customer ultimately should just consume the service and should not need to do anything more than what they absolutely need to do so that they can essentially focus on what adds value to their business takes a lot of Technology a lot of dedication to make complex things really simple absolutely whoo John Kumar CEO and co-founder of Clue leo thanks very much for being on the cube Thank You bigger great conversation with poo John data value leading to data services now let's think a little bit more about how enterprises ultimately need to start thinking about how to manifest that in a cloud rich world Chad Kenny is the vice president and chief technologist at Kumi oh and Chad and I had an opportunity to sit down and talk about some of the interesting approaches that are possible because of cloud and very importantly to talk about a new announcement that clew mios making as they expand their support of different cloud types let's see what Chad had to say the notion of data services has been around for a long time but it's being upended recast reformed as a consequence of what cloud can do but that also means that cloud is creating new ways of thinking about data services new opportunities to entry and drive this powerful approach of thinking about digital businesses centralized assets and to have that conversation about what that means we've got Chad Kenny who's a VP and chief technologist of comeö with us today Chad welcome to the cube thanks so much for having me okay so let's start with that notion of data services and the role the clouds gonna play loomio has looked at this problem with this challenge from the ground up what does that mean so if you look at the the cloud as a whole customers have gone through a significant journey we've seen you know that the first shadow IT kind of play out where people decided to go to the cloud IT was too slow it moved into kind of a cloud first movement where people realize the power of cloud services that then got them to understand a little bit of interesting things that played out one moving applications as they exist were not very efficient and so they needed to react exort anapa second SAS was a core way of getting to the cloud in a very simplistic fashion without having to do much of whatsoever and so for applications that were not core competencies they realized they should go SAS and for anything that was a core competency they needed to really reaaargh attack to be able to take advantage of those you know very powerful cloud services and so when you look at it if people were to develop applications today cloud is the default that you'd go towards and so for us we had the luxury of building from the cloud up on these very powerful cloud services to enable a much more simple model for our customers to consume but even more so to be able to actually leverage the agility and elasticity of the cloud think about this for a quick second we can take facilities break them up expand them across many different computer resources within the cloud versus having to take kind of what you did on Prem in a single server or multitudes of servers and try to plant that in the cloud from a customer's experience perspective it's vastly different you get a world where you don't think about how you manage the infrastructure how you manage the service you just consume it and the value that customers get out of that is not only getting their data there which is the on-ramp around our data protection mechanisms but also being able to leverage cloud native services on top of that data in the longer term as we have this one common global index and path and what we're super excited today to announce is that we're adding in AWS native capabilities to be able to date and protect that data in the public cloud and this is kind of the default place where most people go to from a cloud perspective to really get their applications up and running and take advantage of a lot of those cloud native services well if you're gonna be cloud native and promised to customers as you can support their workloads you got to be obviously on AWS so congratulations on that but let's go back to this notion of user word powerful mm-hmm 80 of us is a mature platform GCPs coming along very rapidly asher is you know also very very good and there are others as well but sometimes enterprises discover that they have to make some trade-offs to get the simplicity they have to get less function to get the reliability they have to get rid of simplicity how does ku mio think through those trade-offs to deliver that simple that powerful that reliable platform for something as important as data protection and data services in general so we wanted to create an experience that was single click discover everything and be able to help people consume that service quickly and if you look at the problem that people are dealing with a customer's talked to us about this all the time is the power of the cloud resulted in hundreds if not thousands of accounts within AWS and now you get into a world where you're having to try to figure out how do I manage all of these for one discover all of it and consistently make sure that my data which as you've mentioned is incredibly important to businesses today as protect it and so having that one common view is incredibly important to start with and the simplicity of that is immensely powerful when you look at what we do as a business to make sure that that continues to occur is first we leverage cloud native services on the back which are complex and and and you know getting those things to run and orchestrate are things that we build on the back end on the front end we take the customer's view and looking at what is the most simple way of getting this experience to occur for both discovery as well as you know backup for recovery and even being able to search in a global fashion and so really taking their seats to figure out what would be the easiest way to both consume the service and then also be able to get value from it by running that service AWS has been around well AWS in many respects founded the cloud industry it's it's you know certainly Salesforce and the south side but AWS is the first company to make the promise that it was going to provide this very flexible very powerful very agile infrastructure as a service and they've done an absolutely marvelous job about it and they've also advanced the state of the art of the technology dramatically and in many respects are in the driver's seat what trade offs what limits does your new platform face as it goes to AWS or is it the same coolio experience adding now all of the capabilities of AWS it's a great question because I think a lot of solutions out there today are different parts and pieces kind of klom together well we built is a platform that these new services just get instantly added next time you log into that service you'll see that that available to you and you can just go ahead and log in to your accounts and be able to discover directly and I think that the Vout the power of SAS is really that not only have we made it immensely secure which is something that people think about quite a bit with having you know not only data in flight but data at rest encryption and and leveraging really the cloud capabilities of security but we've made it incredibly simple for them to be able to consume that easily literally not lift a finger to get anything done it's available for you when you log into that system and so having more and more data sources in one single pane of glass and being able to see all the accounts especially in AWS where you have quite a few of those accounts and to be able to apply policies in a consistent fashion to ensure that you're you know compliant within the environment for whatever business requirements that you have around data protection is immensely powerful to our customers Chad Kenney chief technologist plumie Oh thanks very much for being on the tube thank you great conversation Chad especially interested in hearing about how klum EO is being extended to include AWS services within its overall data protection approach and obviously into Data Services but let's take a little bit more into that Columbia was actually generated and prepared a short video that we could take a look at that goes a little bit more deeply into how this is all going to work [Music] enterprises are moving rapidly to the cloud embracing sass for simplified delivery of key services in this cloud centric world IT teams can focus on more strategic work accelerating digital transformation initiatives when it comes to backup IT is stuck designing patching and capacity planning for on-premise systems snapshots alone for data protection in the public cloud is risky and there are hundreds of unprotected SAS applications in the typical enterprise the move to cloud should make backup simpler but it can quickly become exponentially worse it's time to rethink the backup experience what if there were no hardware software or virtual appliances to size configure manage or even buy it all and by adding Enterprise backup public cloud workloads are no longer exposed to accidental data deletion and ransomware at Clube o we deliver secure data backup and recovery without any of that complexity or risk we provide all of the critical functions of enterprise backup d dupe and scheduling user and key management and cataloging because we're built in the public cloud we can rapidly deliver new innovations and take advantage of inherent data security controls our mission is to protect your data wherever it's stored the clew mio authentic SAS backup experienced scales on-demand to manage and protect your data more easily and efficiently and without things like cloud bills or egress charges pluto gives you predictable costs monitoring global backup compliance is far simpler and the built-in always-on security of Clue mio means that your data is safe take advantage of the cloud for backup with no constraints clew mio authentic SAS for the enterprise great video as we think about moving forward in the future and what customers are trying to do we have to think more in terms of the native services that cloud can provide and how to fully exploit them to increase the aggregate flexible both within our enterprises but also based on what our supplies have to offer we had a great conversation with wounds Young who is the CTO and co-founder of Clue mio about just that let's hear it wound had to say everybody's talking about the cloud and what the cloud might be able to do for their business the challenge is there are a limited number of people in the world who really understands what it means to build for the cloud utilizing the cloud it's a lot of approximations out there but not a lot of folks are deeply involved in actually doing it right we've got one here with us today woo Jung is the CTO and co-founder of Cluny o moon welcome to the cube how they tittie here so let's start with this issue of what it means to build for the cloud now loomio has made the decision to have everything fit into that as a service model what is that practically mean so from the engineering point of view building our SAS application is fundamentally different so the way that I'll go and say is that at Combe you know we actually don't build software and ship software what we actually do it will service and service is what we actually ship to our customers let me give you an example in the case of chromium they say backups fail like software sometimes fails and we get that failures too the difference in between criminal and traditional solutions is that if something were to fail we are the one detecting that failure before our customers - not only that when something fails we actually know exactly why you fail therefore we can actually troubleshoot it and we can actually fix it and upgrade the service without the customer intervention so it's not about the bugs also or about the troubleshooting aspect but it's also about new features if you were to introduce our new features we can actually do this without having customers upgraded code we will actually do it ourselves so essentially it frees the customers from actually doing all these actions because we will do them on behalf of them at scale and I think that's the second thing I want to talk about quickly is that the ability to use the cloud to do many of the things that you're talking about at scale creates incredible ranges of options that customers have at their disposal so for example AWS customers have historically used things like snapshots to provide a modicum of data protection to their AWS workloads but there are other new options that could be applied if the system's are built to supply them give us a sense of how kkumeul is looking at this question of you know snapshots versus something else yeah so basically traditionally even on the on print side of the things you have something called a snapshot and you had your backups right and they're they're fundamentally different but if you actually shift your gears and you look at what they WS offers today they actually offers the ability for you to take snapshots but actually that's not a backup right and they're fundamentally different so let's talk about it a little bit more what it means to be snapshots and a backup right so let's say there's a bad actor and your account gets compromised like your AWS account gets compromised so then the bad actor has access not only to the EBS volumes but also to the EBS snapshots what that means is that that person can actually go ahead and delete the EBS volume as well as the EBS snapshots now if you had a backup let's say you actually take a backup of that EBS volume to Kumu that bad actor will have access to the EBS volumes however you won't be able to delete the backup that we actually have in Kumu so in the whole thing the idea of Kumi on is that you should be able to protect all of your assets that being either an on-prem or an AWS by setting up a single policies and these are true backups and not just snapshots and that leads to the last question I have which is ultimately the ability to introduce these capabilities at scale creates a lot of new opportunities that customers can utilize to do a better job of building applications but also I presume managing how they use AWS because snapshots and other types of service can expand dramatically which can increase your cost how is doing it better with things like native backup services improve a customer's ability to administer their AWS spend and accounts great question so essentially if you look at the enterprise's today obviously they have multiple you know on-premise data centers and also a different cloud providers that the you like AWS and Azure and also a few SAS applications right so then the idea is for kkumeul is to create this single platform where all of these things can actually be backed up in a uniform way where you can actually manage all of them and then the other thing is all doing it in the cloud so if you think about it if you don't solve the poem fundamentally in the cloud there's things that you end up paying later on so let's take an example right moving bytes moving bytes in between one server to the other traditionally basically moving bytes from one rack to the other it was always free you never had to pay anything for that certainly in the data center alright but if you actually go to the public cloud you cannot say the same thing right basically moving by it across aw s recent regions is not free anymore moving data from AWS to the on premises that's not free either so these are all the things that any you know car provider service provider like ours has to consider and actually solve so that the customers can only back it up into Kumu but then they actually can leverage different cloud providers you know in a seamless way without having to worry all of this costs associated with it so kkumeul we should be able to back it up but we should be able to also offer mobility in between either AWS backup VMware or VNC so if I can kind of summarize what you just said that you want to be able to provide to an account to an enterprise the ability to not have to worry about the backend infrastructure from a technical and process standpoint but not also have to worry so much about the backend infrastructure from a cost and financial standpoint that by providing a service and then administering how that service is optimally handled the customer doesn't have to think about some of those financial considerations of moving data around in the same way that they used to oh I got that right I absolutely yes basically multiple accounts multiple regions multiple providers it is extremely hard to manage what Cuneo does it will actually provide you a single pane of glass where you can actually manage them all but then if you actually think about just and manageability this actually you can actually do that by just building a management layer on top of it but more importantly you and we need to have a single data you know repository for you for us to be able to provide a true mobility in between them one is about managing but the other thing is about if you're done if you're done it the real the right way it provides you the ability to move them and it leverages the cloud power so that you don't have to worry about the cloud expenses but kkumeul internally is the one are actually optimizing all of this try our customers wound jeong CTO and co-founder of Kaleo thanks very much for being on the queue thank you thanks very much moon I want to thank chromeo for providing this important content about the increasingly important evolution of data protection and cloud now here's your opportunity to weigh in on this crucially important arena what do you think about this evolving relationship how do you foresee it operating in your enterprise what comments do you have what questions do you have of the thought leaders from Cluny oh and elsewhere that's what we're gonna do now we're gonna go into the crowd chat and we're gonna hear from each other about this really important topic and what you foresee in your enterprise as your digital business transforms let's crouch at

>>Hi, I'm Peter Burress. And welcome back to know the Cube conversation. This one from B M sees Helix Immersion Day at Santa Clara Marriott in Santa Clara, California. Once again, we've got a great set of topics for today Today, Right now we're gonna talk about is the everybody talks about the explosion in the amount of data, but nobody talks about the resulting or associated explosion in software. And that may in fact, be that an even bigger issue than the explosion and data. Because ultimately, we want to apply that data and get work done. That's gonna require that we rethink service's rethink service management, rethink operations and rethink operations management in the context of how all this new software is gonna create new work but also can perform new classes of work. Soto have that conversation. We've got a couple of great guests. New York. And here is the BMC president of Digital Service is in operations management division to BMC. Welcome back to the Cube. >>Thank you. >>And me Here shoot Close the CEO of Automation anywhere here. Welcome to the Cube. So Naoki, I want to start with you. A year ago, we started on this journey of how this new digital service is is going to evolve to do Maur types of work for people. How has be emcees? Helix Platform evolved in that time. >>So if you remember last time, it's almost a year. Back when we launched Helix, which was all around taking the service management capability that we had on Prem Minute available in cloud continue rise so customers can run and cut of their choice and provided experience through various channels bought as channel off that customer experience. This is what we had released last time. We call it the three C's for Helix, Everything in cloud containerized with cognitive capabilities so customers can transform that experience in this version. What we are extending helix is with the operation side. So although I Tom capabilities that we have in our platform are now a part off Felix, so we have one entering platform so that customers can discover every asset that they have on prominent loud monitor those assets detected anomalies service bought four lines of business and for i t. For immediate issues that happen, vulnerabilities that are there in the system and automatically optimized capacity and cost on holistic. This whole closed loop off operations and service coming together is what this next day off innovations that were launching BMC Helix >>Soma here New York He's talked about very successfully, and Felix has been a very successful platform for improving user experience. But up front, I noted that we're not just talking about human beings as users anymore. We're talking about software is users R p a robotic process. Automation is a central feature of some of these new trends. Tell us a little bit about how robotic process automation is driving an increased need for this kind of digital service in operations management capability? >>Sure think it a high level you have to think of. The new organization has augmented organization that are human and what's working side by side, each doing what they're best at. And so, in a specific example of a service organization, uh, the the BMC hell ex ist Licht Alexis Taking this is Think of this as a utility where the way you plug it into an electricity outlet and switch on the light and you get the electricity, you plug into the BMC helix, and behind it, you have augmented workforce of chat boards are pia bots, human beings each doing what they're best at and giving a far superior customer experience and like any other that is happening now. And that's the future off service industry. >>But when you point a human, so to speak metaphorically into that system, there's a certain amount of time there's a certain amount of training. There's a certain, and as a consequence, you can have a little bit more predictable scale. That doesn't mean that you don't end up with a lot of complexity, but our p A seems that the potential of our P A seems that you're going to increase the rate at which these users, in this case, digital users are going to enter into the system. You don't have a training regimen you can attach to them. They have to be tested. They have to be discovered. You have to be put in operation with reliability. How is that ultimately driving the need for some of these new capabilities? >>I think you if you think of this, if you think of this box as a digital workers, you almost have to go through the same process that you would go through human beings. You onboard them in terms of you, configure them. You trained them with cognitive capabilities and the and then in. The one difference is the monitor themselves. Without any bias they give, they can give you. They can give their own performance rating performance rating card. Um, but the beauty off this is when human and what's work together because there are some functions that the bots can do well. And then at some point they can hand off to the human beings and human beings. Do some of the more interesting work that is based on judgment. Call customer service. All of that, um, so that the combination is is the end goal for everybody >>and to add would be here said right, that customer experience, whether you're providing experience to employees, are consumers and customers. That is the ultimate goal. That's ultimate result of what you want to get and the speed at which you provided experiences, the accuracy of which you provide experience of the cause, that which you provided experience becomes a competitive sensation, which is where all this automation, this augmentation that they're doing with humans and bots is what enables us to do that right for or large enterprise customers May major service organizations trying to transform into that beautiful. >>But increasingly, it seems as though the, uh, the things that we have to do to orchestrate in ministry Maur users digital and human undertaking Maur complex tasks where each is best applied is really driving a lot of new data mentioned upfront, an enormous amount of software and you said new experiences. But those experiences have to be reliable, have to be secure. They have to be predictable. So that suggests this overwhelming impact of all of these capabilities. You talk about a digital tsunami? What are some of the key things? Do you think Enterprise is gonna have to do to start engaging that? >>Yeah, I'm incredibly college 40 nursery revolution. Whether we call our initial transformation, I think what we all are experiencing is the tsunami Texan ami, right, Tsunami of clouds, where you have corruption clouds, private clouds have a close marriage clouds, tsunami of devices, not just more valid visors, but also has everything alone, as is getting connected devices, tsunami of channels. I mean, as an end user, I wantto experience that in the channel of my preference lack as a journalism as a channel tsunami of bots, off conversation, bullets in our Peabody. So in this tsunami, I think what everyone is trying to figure out is, how do they manage this explosion? It's humanly impossible to do it all manually. You have toe augment it. But of course, intelligence, I'm all. But then, of course, boss, become a big part of that augmentation toe. Orchestrate all of them back to back cross. >>I would say that the this is no longer nice to have, because if you look it from over consumer's perspective, last 20 years of digital technologies off from my Amazons and Google's of the World, Netflix and others they have created this mind set off instant customer gratification, and we all been trained for it. So what was acceptable five years ago is no longer acceptable in our own lives, I e. And so this new standard off instant result instant outcome. Instant respond. Instant delivery V. Just expected. Right. Once you're end, consumer begins to do that. We as a business is no longer have a choice that's writing on the wall. And so what? This new platform Zehr doing like you'd be emcee. Hellickson automation anywhere is delivering their instant gratification. And when you think about it, more and more of the new customers that are millennials, they don't know any other way. So for them, this is the only experience they will relate. Oh, so again, this is not nice to see Oh, it is. But it is the only way only the world will operate, right? >>Well, what we're trying to do is take on new classes of customer experience, new operational opportunities to improve our profitability, innovate and find new value propositions. But you mentioned time arrival rate of transaction is no longer predictable. It's gonna be defined by the market, not by your employees. We could go on and on and on with that. What is taught us a little bit about automation anywhere and what automation anywhere is doing to try to ensure that as businesses go off to attend to the complexity creates new value at the same time can introduce simplicity where they could get scale and more automation. >>Sure, you earlier mentioned that with explosion of data came the explosion off applications And what? Let me focus on what problem or permission anywhere solves. If you look at large organizations, they have vast amount of applications, sometimes 408 100 few 1000 what we have seen. What we've been doing historically is using people as a human bridges between this applications. And we have a prettier that way for too long. And that's the world today. >>So humans are the interface >>humans at the bridges between applications and often called the salty air operations. That's the easiest way to describe it. So the what are two mission ever does is it offers this technology platform robotic process automation area in an Arctic split form that integrates all off it together into a seamless automation bought that can go across and with the eye it can make intelligent, intelligent choices. Um, and so now take that Combined with the BMC, Alex, and you have a seamless service platform that can deliver superior experience. >>So we've got now these swivel chair users now being software, which means that we could discover them more easily. We can monitor them more easily, and that feeds. He looks >>absolutely so you know, in our consumer wall, in a day to day life We are used to a certain experience of how we consume data or consume experiences with our TVs and all the channels that experience that we have an identity. Life is what people expect when they walk into the company, right walking to the Enterprise, which every IittIe organization is trying to figure out. How do they get to that level of maturity? So this is what the combination of what we're doing with Felix and automation anywhere brewing's that consumer great experiences into an enterprise >>world. Some here when we think about our p A. We're applying it in interesting and innovative ways, no question about it. But there are certain patterns of success. Give us some visibility into what you are seeing leads to success. And then what's the future of our P? A. How's that gonna involve over the next few years? >>Sure. Um, R P has been deployed across virtually every industry and virtually every department, so there are many ways to get started in All of them are right. But often we find is that you can either start in a central organization where in terror organization is doing everything centrally. It is a great way to get started. But eventually we learned that the Federated Way is the best way to end where hundreds of offices all over the world, if you are especially large organization, each business unit is doing it with I t providing governments and central security and policies and an actual bots running and being implemented all over the world eventually for a large gilt transformation. That is a common pattern we have seen among successful customers. >>And where do you think this is? Houses pattern going to evolve as enterprises gained more familiarity with it, innovating new and interesting ways and his automation anywhere, and others advance the state of the art. Where do you think it's gonna end up? >>The read is going is is I define it as an app store experience or a Google play experience. So if you think about how we operate over mobile devices today, if you want something on your device, you would look for a nap that does that. We're getting to a point where there is bought for everything in a digital worker for everything. So if you need certain job done, you first go to a what store? Uh that is an automation anywhere website. Look for about that. Does something higher or download that Bart. Get the work done and it comes pre built. Like many. There are works with BMC Felix on many of those, So s. So that is your 1st 1st way you will look, look for getting your work done in a new body economy. And if it if there's no but available, then you look for other options. It will transform how we work and how we think of >>work. In many respects, it's the gig economy with perfect contractor, and it's that leads to some very in string challenges. Ultimately, we start thinking about service Is so Ni aki based on what me here just talked about. Where does digital service is go as our P A joins other classes of users in creating those new experiences at new Prophet points and new value propositions, >>it becomes a competitive. How you provide that service can become a big competitive sensation for financial institutions. For telcos, which is a service industry, right, you're providing that service and, like two meters point, then the user hits that switch. They expect the light to come on If I'm an end user, that consumer warning a service from my telco provider, all from my, um, financial institution. I expect that service to be instantaneous at the highest accuracy accuracy at which super wide is gonna start driving competitor, official for financial institutions of financial institution Telco two Telco and that So I C companies, differentiating and really surviving are thriving in the long term. >>It's no longer becoming something that's nice to have its jacks or better in business, too. >>That's right. And the demo of the live demo that we saw today was really impressive because it sure that what would have taken a few days to happen now happens in three minutes. Right? It is, which is, which is almost the time it takes to call an uber. You know, when interpreters begin to do work at a pace that what you call an uber that's that's that's the future. Yes, it's here. >>Yes, so do I mean the demo that we do the entire enter and demo to request additional storage and being able to provisional remediating issues that we see predict cost and make it available to the end user develop whoever it is is asking for it in minutes. Alright, which used to take days and days. No, no, no, not to mention sometimes in pixels. >>It's typically done faster at scale, with greater reliability. Greater greater security, Certainly greater predictability, et cetera. All right. Here. Shukla, CEO of automation Anywhere. Yeah. Kenny, our president off the dental Service is and operations management division at BMC. Thanks both of you for being on the Cube. >>Thank you. >>Thank you. >>Once again, I'm Peter Burress and I want to thank you for participating in this cube conversation from Santa Clara Marriott at B M sees helix immersion days until next time.

and II just think about how data could be customer experience value propositions operations that improve profitability and strategic options for the business as it moves forward but that means openly either we're thinking about how we embed data more deeply into our operations that means we must also think about how we're going to protect that data so the business does not suffer because someone got a hold of our data or corrupted our data or that a system just failed and we needed to restore that data very quickly now what we want to be able to do is we want to do that in a way that's natural and looks a lot like a cloud because we want that cloud experience in our data protection as well so that's we're going to talk about with Klum you know today a lot of folks think in terms of moving all the data into the cloud we think increasingly we have to recognize a cloud is not a strategy for centralizing data but rather distributing data and being able to protect that data where it is utilizing a simple common cloud like experience it's becoming an increasingly central competitive need for a lot of digital enterprises the first conversation we had was with pooja Kumar who John is a CEO and co-founder of Kaleo let's hear a pooja I had to say about data value data services and Kumi Oh poo John welcome to the show thank you Peter nice to be here so give us the update in clue so comeö is a two year old company right we just recently launched out of stealth so so far you know we we came out with innovative offering which is a SAS solution to go and protect on premises you know VMware and BMC environments that's what we launched out of style two months ago we won our best of show when we came out of stealth in in VMware 2019 but ultimately we started with a vision about you know protecting data irrespective of where it resides so it was all about you know you know on-premises on cloud and other SAS services so one single service that protects data irrespective of where it resides so far we executed on on-premises VMware and BMC today what we are announcing for the first time is our protection to go and protect applications natively built on AWS so these are applications that are natively built on AWS that loomio as a service will protect irrespective of you know them running you know in one region or cross region cross accounts and a single service that will allow our customers to protect native AWS applications the other big announcement we are making is a new round of financing and that is testament to the interest in the space and the innovative nature of the platform that we have built so when we came out of stealth we announced we had raised two rounds of financing 51 million dollars in series a and Series B rounds of financing today what we are announcing is a Series C round of financing of 135 million dollars the largest I would say Series C financing for a SAS enterprise company especially a company that's a little over two years old Oh congratulations that's gonna buy a lot of new technology and a lot of customer engagement but what customers as I said up from what customers are really looking for is they're looking for tooling and methods and capabilities that allow them to treat their data differently talk a bit about the central importance of data and how it's driving decisions of Cluny oh yes so fundamentally you know when we built out the the data platform it was about going after the data protection as the first use case on the platform longer term the journey really is to go from a data protection company to a data management company and this is possible for the first time because you have the public cloud on your side if you truly built a platform for the cloud on the public cloud you have this distinct advantage of now taking the data that you're protecting and really leveraging it for other services that you can enable the enterprise for and this is exactly what enterprises are asking for especially as they you know you know make a transition from on-premises to the public cloud where they're powering on more and more applications in the public cloud and they really you know sometimes have no idea in terms of where the data is sitting and how they can take advantage of all these data sources that ultimately protecting well no idea where the data is sitting take advantage of these data sources presumably facilitate new classes of integration because that's how you generate value out of data that suggests that we're not just looking at protection as crucial and important as it is we're looking at new classes of services they're going to make it possible to alter the way you think about data management if I got that right and what are those new services yes it's it's a journey as I said right so starting with you know again data protection it's also about doing data protection across multiple clouds right so ultimately we are a platform even though we are announcing you know AWS you know application support today we've already done VMware and BMC as we go along you'll see us kind of doing this across multiple clouds so an application that's built on the cloud running across multiple clouds AWS ashore and GCP or whatever it might be you see as kind of doing data protection across in applications in multiple clouds and then it's about going and saying you know can we take advantage of the data that we are protecting and really power on adjacent use cases you know there could be security use cases because we know exactly what's changing when it's changing there could be infrastructure analytics use cases because people are running tens of thousands of instances and containers and VMs in the public cloud and if a problem happens nobody really knows what caused it and we have all the data and we can kind of you know index it in the backend analyze in the backend without the customer needing to lift a finger and really show them what happened in their environment that they didn't know about right so there's a lot of interesting use cases that get powered on because you have the ability to index all the data here you have the ability to essentially look at all the changes that are happening and really give that visibility to the end customer and all of this one-click and automating it without the customer needing to do much I will tell you this that we've talked to a number of customers of Cuneo and the fundamental choice the clue Meo choice was simplicity how are you going to sustain that even as you add these new classes of services that is the key right and that is about the foundation we have built at the end of the day right so if you look at all of our customers that have you know on boarded today it's really the experience we're in less than you know 15 minutes they can we start enjoying the power of the platform and the backend that we have built and the focus on design that we have is ultimately why we are able to do this with simplicity so so when we when we think about you know all the things we do in the back end there's obviously a lot of complexity in the back end because it is a complex platform but every time we ask ourselves the question that okay from a customer perspective how do we make sure that it is one click and easy for them so that focus and that attention to detail that we have behind the scenes to make sure that the customer ultimately should just consume the service and should not need to do anything more than what they absolutely need to do so that they can essentially focus on what adds value to their business takes a lot of technology a lot of dedication to make complex things really simple absolutely whoo John Kumar CEO and co-founder of coolio thanks very much for being on the cube Thank You bigger great conversation with poo John data value leading to data services now let's think a little bit more about how enterprises ultimately need to start thinking about how to manifest that in a cloud rich world Chad Kenney is the vice president and chief acknowledges of Cuneo and Chad and I had an opportunity to sit down and talk about some of the interesting approaches that are possible because of cloud and very importantly to talk about a new announcement that clue miios making as they expand their support of different cloud types let's see what Chad had to say the notion of data services has been around for a long time but it's being upended recast reformed as a consequence of what cloud can do but that also means that cloud is creating new ways of thinking about data services new opportunities to introduce and drive this powerful approach of thinking about digital businesses centralized assets and to have that conversation about what that means we've got Chad Kenny who's a VP and chief technologists of comeö with us today Chad welcome to the cube thanks so much for having me okay so let's start with that notion of data services and the role the clouds going to play Kumi always looked at this problem this challenge from the ground up what does that mean so if you look at the the cloud as a whole customers have gone through a significant journey we've seen you know that the first shadow IT kind of play out where people decided to go to the cloud IT was too slow it moved into kind of a cloud first movement where people realize the power of cloud services that then got them to understand a little bit of interesting things that played out one moving applications as they exist were not very efficient and so they needed to react attack certain applications second SAS was a core way of getting to the cloud in a very simplistic fashion without having to do much of whatsoever and so for applications that were not core competencies they realized they should go SACEM for anything that was a core competency they needed to really reaaargh attack to be able to take advantage of those you know very powerful cloud services and so when you look at it if people were to develop applications today cloud is the default that you'd go towards and so for us we had the luxury of building from the cloud up on these very powerful cloud services to enable a much more simple model for our customers to consume but even more so to be able to actually leverage the agility and elasticity of the cloud think about this for a quick second we can take facilities break them up expand them across many different compute resources within the cloud versus having to take kind of what you did on prim in a single server or multitudes of servers and try to plant that in the cloud from a customer's experience perspective it's vastly different you get a world where you don't think about how you manage the infrastructure how you manage the service you just consume it and the value that customers get out of that is not only getting their data there which is the on-ramp around our data protection mechanisms but also being able to leverage cloud native services on top of that data in the longer term as we have this one common global index and platform what we're super excited today to announce is that we're adding in AWS native capabilities to be able to date and protect that data in the public cloud and this is kind of the default place where most people go to from a cloud perspective to really get their applications up and running and take advantage a lot of those cloud native services well if you're gonna be cloud native and promise to customers as you're going to support their workloads you got to be obviously on AWS so congratulations on that but let's go back to this notion of user word powerful mm-hmm AWS is a mature platform GCPs coming along very rapidly asher is you know also very very good and there are others as well but sometimes enterprises discover that they have to make some trade-offs to get the simplicity they have to get less function to get the reliability they have to get rid of simplicity how does qu mio think through those trade-offs to deliver that simple that powerful that reliable platform for something as important as data protection and data services in general so we wanted to create an experience that was single click discover everything and be able to help people consume that service quickly and if you look at the problem that people are dealing with a customer's talked to us about this all the time is the power of the cloud resulted in hundreds if not thousands of accounts within AWS and now you get into a world where you're having to try to figure out how do I manage all of these for one discover all of it and consistently make sure that my data which as you've mentioned is incredibly important to businesses today as protect it and so having that one common view is incredibly important to start with and the simplicity of that is immensely powerful when you look at what we do as a business to make sure that that continues to occur is first we leverage cloud native services on the back which are complex and and and you know getting those things to run and orchestrate are things that we build on the back end on the front end we take the customer's view and looking at what is the most simple way of getting this experience to occur for both discovery as well as you know backup for recovery and even being able to search in a global fashion and so really taking their seats to figure out what would be the easiest way to both consume the service and then also be able to get value from it by running that service AWS has been around well AWS in many respects founded the cloud industry it's it's you know certainly Salesforce and the south side but AWS is that first company to make the promise that it was going to provide this very flexible very powerful very a a July infrastructure as a service and they've done an absolutely marvelous job about it and they've also advanced the state of your technology dramatically and in many respects are in the driver's seat what trade offs what limits does your new platform face as it goes to AWS or is it the same Coolio experience adding now all of the capabilities of AWS it's a great question because I think a lot of solutions out there today are different parts and pieces kind of clump together well we built is a platform that these new services just get instantly added next time you log into that service you'll see that that available to you and you can just go ahead and log in to your accounts and be able to discover directly and I think that the vow the power of SAS is really that not only have we made it immensely secure which is something that people think about quite a bit with having you know not only data in flight but data at rest encryption and and leveraging really the cloud capabilities of security but we've made it incredibly simple for them to be able to consume that easily literally not lift a finger to get anything done it's available for you when you log into that system and so having more and more data sources in one single pane of glass and being able to see all the accounts especially in AWS where you have quite a few of those accounts and to be able to apply policies in a consistent fashion to ensure that you're you know compliant within the environment for whatever business requirements that you have around data protection is immensely powerful to our customers Chad Denny Chief Technologist plumie oh thanks very much for being on the tube thank you great conversation Chad especially interested in hearing about how klum EO is being extended to include AWS services within its overall data protection approach and obviously into Data Services but let's take a little bit more into that Columbia was actually generated and prepared a short video that we could take a look at that goes a little bit more deeply into how this is all going to work enterprises are moving rapidly to the cloud embracing sass for simplified delivery of key services in this cloud centric world IT teams can focus on more strategic work accelerating digital transformation initiatives for when it comes to backup IT is stuck designing patching and capacity planning for on-premise systems snapshots alone for data protection in the public cloud is risky and there are hundreds of unprotected SAS applications in the typical enterprise the move to cloud should make backup simpler but it can quickly become exponentially worse it's time to rethink the backup experience what if there were no hardware software or virtual appliances to size configure manage or even buy it all and by adding Enterprise backup public cloud workloads are no longer exposed to accidental data deletion and ransomware and Clube o we deliver secure data backup and recovery without any of that complexity or risk we provide all of the critical functions of enterprise backup d dupe and scheduling user and key management and cataloging because we're built in the public cloud we can rapidly deliver new innovations and take advantage of inherent data security controls our mission is to protect your data wherever it's stored the clew mio authentic SAS backup experience scales on demand to manage and protect your data more easily and efficiently and without things like cloud bills or egress charges luenell gives you predictable costs monitoring global backup compliance is far simpler and the built-in always-on security of Clue mio means that your data is safe take advantage of the cloud for backup with no constraints clew mio authentic SAS for the enterprise great video as we think about moving forward in the future and what customers are trying to do we have to think more in terms of the native services that cloud can provide and how to fully exploit them to increase the aggregate flexible both within our enterprises but also based on what our supplies have to offer we had a great conversation with wounds Young who is the CTO and co-founder of Clue mio about just that let's hear it wound had to say everybody's talking about the cloud and what the cloud might be able to do for their business the challenges there are a limited number of people in the world who really understands what it means to build for the cloud utilizing the cloud it's a lot of approximations out there but not a lot of folks are deeply involved in actually doing it right we've got one here with us today woo Jung is the CTO and co-founder of Cluny Oh woo and welcome to the cube how they theny here so let's start with this issue of what it means to build for the cloud now loomio has made the decision to have everything fit into that as a service model what is that practically mean so from the engineering point of view building our SAS application is fundamentally different so the way that I'll go and say is that at Combe you know we actually don't build software and ship software what we actually do it will service and service is what we actually ship to our customers let me give you an example in the case of Kumu they say backups fail like software sometimes fails and we get that failures >> the difference in between chromeo and traditional solutions is that if something were to fail we are the one detecting that failure before our customers - not only that when something fails we actually know exactly why you fail therefore we can actually troubleshoot it and we can actually fix it and operate the service without the customer intervention so it's not about the bugs also or about the troubleshooting aspect but it's also about new features if you were to introduce our new features we can actually do this without having customers upgraded code we will actually do it ourselves so essentially it frees the customers from actually doing all these actions because we will do them on behalf of them at scale and I think that's the second thing I want to talk about quickly is that the ability to use the cloud to do many of the things that you're talking about at scale creates incredible ranges of options that customers have at their disposal so for example AWS customers have historically used things like snapshots to provide it a modicum of data protection to their AWS workloads but there are other new options that could be applied if the systems are built to supply them give us a sense of how kkumeul is looking at this question of no snapshots versus something else yeah so basically traditionally even on the on print side of the things you have something called the snapshots and you had your backups right and there they're fundamentally different but if you actually shift your gears and you look at what they Wis offers today they actually offers the ability for you to take snapshots but actually that's not a backup right and they're fundamentally different so let's talk about it a little bit more what it means to be snapshots and a backup right so let's say there's a bad actor and your account gets compromised like your AWS account gets compromised so then the bad actor has access not only to the EBS volumes but also to the EBS snapshots what that means is that that person can actually go ahead and delete the EBS volume as well as the EBS snapshots now if you had a backup let's say you actually take a backup of that EBS volume to Kumu that bad actor will have access to the EBS volumes however they won't be able to delete the backup that we actually have in Kumu so in the whole thing the idea of Kumi on is that you should be able to protect all of your assets that being either a non-prime or AWS by setting up a single policies and these are true backups and not just snapshots and that leads to the last question I have which is ultimately the ability to introduce these capabilities at scale creates a lot of new opportunities that customers can utilize to do a better job of building applications but also I presume managing how they use AWS because snapshots and other types of servers can expand dramatically which can increase your cost how is doing it better with things like native backup services improve a customer's ability to administer their AWS spend and accounts so great question so essentially if you look at the enterprise's today obviously they have multiple you know on-premise data centers and also a different card provide that they use like AWS and Azure and also a few SAS applications right so then the idea is for cumin is to create this single platform where all of these things can actually be backed up in a uniform way where you can actually manage all of them and then the other thing is all doing it in the cloud so if you think about it if you don't solve the poem fundamentally in the cloud there's things that you end up paying later on so let's take an example right moving bytes moving bytes in between one server to the other traditionally basically moving bytes from one rack to the other it was always free you never had to pay anything for that certainly in the data center all right but if you actually go to the public cloud you cannot say the same thing right basically moving by it across aw s recent regions is not free anymore moving data from AWS to the on premises that's not fair either so these are all the things that any you know car provider service provider like ours has to consider and actually solve so that the customers can only back it up into Kumu but then they actually can leverage different cloud providers you know in a seamless way without having to worry all of this costs associated with it so kkumeul we should be able to back it up but we should be able to also offer mobility in between either AWS back at VMware or VNC so if I can kind of summarize what you just said that you want to be able to provide to an account to an enterprise the ability to not have to worry about the back-end infrastructure from a technical and process standpoint but not also have to worry so much about the back-end infrastructure from a cost and financial standpoint that by providing a service and then administering how that service is optimally handled the customer doesn't have to think about some of those financial considerations of moving data around in the same way that they used to I got that right I absolutely yes basically multiple accounts multiple regions multiple providers it is extremely hard to manage what Cuneo does it will actually provide you a single pane of glass where you can actually manage them all but then if you actually think about just and manageability it's actually you can actually do that by just building a management layer on top of it but more importantly you and we need to have a single data you know repository for you for us to be able to provide a true mobility between them one is about managing but the other thing is about if you're done if you're done it the real the right way it provides you the ability to move them and it leverages the cloud power so that you don't have to worry about the cloud expenses but kkumeul internally is the one are actually optimizing all of this for our customers wound jeong CTO and co-founder of columbia thanks very much for being on the cube thank you thanks very much moon I want to thank chromeo for providing this important content about the increasingly important evolution of data protection and cloud now here's your opportunity to weigh in on this crucially important arena what do you think about this evolving relationship how do you foresee it operating in your enterprise what comments do you have what questions do you have of the thought leaders from clew mio and elsewhere that's what we're going to do now we're gonna go into the crowd chat and we're gonna hear from each other about this really important topic and what you foresee in your enterprise as your digital business transforms let's crouch at you [Music] [Music] [Music]

>> Narrator: Live from San Diego, California it's theCUBE covering Cisco Live, US, 2019. Brought to you by Cisco and its eco system partners. >> Welcome back to San Diego everybody. This is theCUBE the leader in live tech coverage, My name is Dave Vellante, Stu Miniman is here, Lisa Martin as well but we've got a very special guest now Ken O'Reilly my good friend is here. He's the director of customer experience for Cisco Stealthwatch. Kenny great to see you thanks for coming on. >> Well, thanks for having me, Dave. Good seeing you as well. >> Yes so customer experience, people think about customer experience and security it's not always great right? It's a challenging environment they're constantly sort of chasing their tails it's like the arms race with the bad guy so what is customer experience all about in the context of security? >> So our number one goal for our security customers is to accelerate their value realization so our challenge is to make sure that they get the value out of the product that they're buying because every minute of every day the bad guys are trying to get their assets and their IP and when they buy a technology the quicker you can get it up and running and protect the better it is for our customer. >> So how do you measure like value? It's like reducing the amount of data that you're exposed to losing? Is it increasing the cost of the bad guys getting in? 'cause if I'm a bad guy and it costs me more to get in I would maybe go somewhere else, how do you measure that? >> Right so, you're right, so our whole product strategy is to increase the cost for the bad guy to get the IP or the assets and so for us we have to understand what the value proposition is for our product so that the customers can realize that value, so whether it's tryna help them with the use cases or operationalize the product or in our case what we try to do we have both network users and security users we try to get both groups to adopt the technology and then expand it from there, operation centers to the guys that are doing the thread hunting to the investigations et cetera. So that's how we sort of gauge the value is the number of people that are using the technology and the number of use cases that are actually implemented. >> So we've been talking about security all week Stealthwatch obviously you know one of the flagship products Cisco security business grew 21% last quarter so that's kind of an interesting stat services is 25% of the companies revenue so you're the intersection of two pretty important places for Cisco so specifically when you come into a customer engagement who are you engaging with is it a multidisciplinary are you primarily dealing with the SecOps group or do you touch other parts of the organization? >> Yeah, so typically when a company's looking, it's usually they're looking for network visibility so we're dealing with the network architecture teams and they typically bring in the security architects 'cause today they're working hand in hand, and then from there that's where we say preach the gospel of Stealthwatch we always say you can never have enough Stealthwatch okay? Because you can never have enough visibility 'cause once you turn the lights on and they can see what's going on in their network it's very illuminating for them and then they realize the challenges that they have and what they have to do to protect their assets. >> Yeah I joked at Google Cloud Next it's like the cockroaches all scrambling you know for the corners when you turn the lights on and Stealthwatch at its core is you don't need a lot of fancy AI even though you can apply fancy AI but you start with the basics right? What do ya got, where are the gaps okay, so now once it's exposed what do you do with that information is the customer experience group come in and help implement it faster? That's part of the value so time to value to that? >> So time to value with our experts of course we understand the space we understand our product we understand the challenge and of course our network and security customers are overwhelmed you know the stat that they throw out there is that our large customers have anywhere from 50-100 security products so how do you stand out? So as a vendor our number one goal is to build that relationship with the customer to become the trusted security advisor so we know better than anybody how to get that value how to get it quickly and you know the number one problem that they have Dave is how to operationalize all these tools 'cause Stealthwatch sits in the middle we're a big integration platform we take data, telemetry, NetFlow from a lot of different products and we bring that data together to figure out, to help that customer figure out how to make sense of it update their policies create better policies and really tighten up their security posture. >> Okay so they might like to reduce the number of tools but they really can't right? 'cause their using 'em and so what you do is you bring in a layer to help manage that. >> Absolutely. >> But you're also solving a problem just in terms of exposing gaps and then do you also have tooling to fill those gaps? Or is that partners tools is that Stealthwatch? >> So we have our own what we call integration platform where we have a platform that helps integrate other, not only other Cisco security technologies into our platform but other security technologies as well outside of Cisco so you know it's a platform that we've built it's part of our customer experience sort of tool set but it's a tool set unlike anybody else ever has so that along with what we do with the DevNet group we've built our own set of API's to integrate in with the product API's so we can pump data out to data lakes we can pump data out to SIMS like Splunk and some of the others so you know that's where we are we're a solutions group that's what we do we work on the solutions, long term value you know we work on the lifecycle sort of value chain with customers. We're there with 'em the whole time you know our goal; retention, we want them to renew which means they're investing in us again and of course as Cloud, as their infrastructure is moving the the Cloud and our technologies are moving to the Cloud we have to be there to help them get through all those technology challenges. >> So the pricing model is a subscription model is that right? >> Yeah. >> Or can be or? >> Yes, well we call it term all right? But it's essentially subscription we have switched over the last 18 months from a perm to a term based model. >> Which I mean Chuck Robbins in the conference calls in the earnings calls talks about the importance of you know increasingly having a rateable model and recognizing subscription, so when you say a term so I got to what, sign up for a year, two years, three years or something like that? >> We like three yep. >> So who doesn't right? Okay so you sign up for three years but the price book says monthly I'm sure right so you (laughs) make it look smaller, but it makes sense though because you're not going to start stop, start stop with your security, you really want to get success out of it so you got to have some kind of commitment, let's talk a little bit more about the analytics side of it and how you're applying machine intelligence I mean there's always been some form of analytics largely for reporting and things of that nature but now it's getting more automated so take us on that analytics journey Stealthwatch has been around for what five years? >> 15 yeah over 15 years. >> 15? >> Ken: Yes, yes, yes. >> Oh wow maybe I just found out about it five years ago. >> (laughs) right yeah, not but I mean-- >> Dave: Take us back five years. >> Five years? So the big thing for us in the data that we collect is context. Right so you've talked to TK about the more context you can add to that data the better you are at analyzing that data so for us that's one of the things that we do we add a lot of context to that data through ICE so identity information, what kind of assets they are and that's where we get to through our tools add more context so that our analytical engines so like the cognitive thread analytics, the encrypted thread analytics that we have, that they're able to analyze that data a lot better and that's what we've been doing now for the past three plus years since we were acquired by Cisco is to find a way to add more context to the data so that helps our analytics become much more effective. >> And you can interact with through API's say for instance Splunk you mentioned that so you got that data that you can operate on do you see a point where the machines are actually going to plug the holes? I mean are we on the cusp of that? In other words you see a gap >> Right. >> Dave: Today a human has to take action correct? >> Yes, right, right, right. >> Do you see a point maybe it's two, three, five 10 years but are we going to get to that point? >> I think so down the line I mean because we've seen as we've been able to get better visibility and better context about that data we can make better decisions through the machine all right? So it doesn't take an army of people to read the matrix right, we're getting better at you know synthesizing that matrix down you take our network segmentation capabilities that we've built as part of the Stealthwatch customer experience team we can get to well over 90% identification of the assets on the network which is a lot better than anybody else in the industry all right? So we're getting there and through sort of the final stages of reading that metrics, reading the matrix we're getting to the point where we understand a lot more what's on peoples networks what those assets are. >> So as a security practitioner how do you think we're doing as an industry? I mean I used to go back every year and say okay how much was spent on security? are we more secure, less secure? And it felt like you know as data grew it felt like we were getting more and more and more exposed you've seen the stats where when a company gets infiltrated it takes on average you know 250 days for them to realize they've been infiltrated is that changing, are we getting better as an industry? >> I think in Cisco we are because of the products that we have in that integrated architecture so when we first joined three years ago that was the drum beat and now today we integrate with ICE we're going to integrate with next generation firewall through the integration of the sort of analytics that we've got in the Cloud that's happening right? And we're trying to integrate with other products but you know you go down on the floor and you see the number of point products that is a nightmare for our customers so for us through the customer experience in our organization we're there to take that complexity out and bring all of those technologies together and when you get to that point then you're really making progress with a customer, a customer that's got 50-100 products in the mix that's a recipe for disaster and if it's still like that five years from now customers are still going to be challenged. >> So a big part of your customer experience mission is simplification, speed time, time to value. >> Yes. >> Raise the cost to the bad guys and then do it all over again. >> Yeah, yeah it's just rinse and repeat and that's a life cycle journey and that's what we take our customers through right. >> Now I noticed you have on your phone you got the Bruins logo. >> That's right, right here proud. >> So big game tomorrow any predictions? >> 4-3 in overtime Bruins. >> Oh my God I don't think my heart could take that. >> Could you not take that Dave? It's going to be an overtime game. >> Well it's you know it's rare to have a game seven in any, at the very final one, a lot of game sevens but not to win it all I think the last time at Boston was 1984. >> Ken: Is that right? >> Yeah it's been a long time, so you know I'm excited. >> I know you are (laughs) that's right. >> Warriors fans too we got that thing going out I mean I don't know for all you hoop fans out there so, >> Hopefully there's a game seven for that as well. >> Yeah let's go right, why not? >> Why not, game seven all round. >> All right so Chara is going to play with his broken jaw or whatever's going on. >> Matt Grzelcyk I hope is back. >> Dave: Yeah that would be key. >> That would be key yeah so, >> Dave: sure up the defense >> That's right. (crosstalk) >> Ken: He's a plus minus leader Chara. >> Oh yeah. >> That's right all time. >> Even though we give him a lot of grief. (laughter) he may look slow but he's all time plus minus leader. >> All right Kenny hey thanks so much-- >> All right Dave thanks for having me on all right go Bruins. >> All right keep it right there everybody go Bruins we will be right back Dave Vellante, Stu Miniman and Lisa Martin we're live from Cisco Live in San Diego you're watching theCUBE. (electronic jingle)

>> live from Washington, D. C. It's the Cube covering a ws public sector summit brought to you by Amazon Web services. >> Welcome back, everyone to the Cubes Live coverage of a ws Public sector summit here in Washington D. C. Our nation's capital. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight co hosting alongside John Farrier wear welcoming Back to the Cuba, Cuba and esteemed Cube veteran Teresa Carlson, vice president Worldwide public Sector A W s. >> Thank you really appreciate always being on the key, But I appreciate you being here and our public sector. Sandy, >> Thank you for having us. So give up. Give us the numbers. How many people are in this room? How many people are here? >> Well, we have now today. Well, for this time that we're here, there's probably about 13,000 people here will expect a couple of 1,000 more. I think by the time it's all said Dan, we'll have about 15,000 at the conference. Of course, you had my keynote today with whole Benson sessions. They're all packed, and tomorrow you'll have Andy, jazzy herewith made ing a fireside chat at 11 o'clock on Wednesday, so I think that room will be overflowing with Andy Kelly as well, Because everybody loves him >> and Andy just coming back from a conference for the Silicon Valley elites on the west coast, where he put a big plug in for public sector, which is awesome. Yes. Now there you guys are kicking some serious butt. Congratulations. >> Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. >> I mean, what's it like for you? You're the leader. You're the chief of the public sector business. You've grown it. It's now cruising altitude that seem so cruising. >> Yeah, it. Well, first of all, this Nana, this would've been possible without Andy Jassy actually kind of believing and the mission of public sector when he hired me in 2010. And you're right, John. We started. You've hurt, covered the story. We started with two people in 2010 at the end of 2010. And now we have thousands of people around the world and, you know, over 35 countries, customers and 100 72 2 countries. And the business is growing at more than 41% every year date of yes, and we're $31,000,000,000. Business with public sector ban important component in that business. So for s here today. It is very meaningful. And the reason it is so meaningful. It is about our customers. And this is This is a testament to that. Our customers left what a TBS provides. And in the public sector business, it is a game changer to their mission way >> We're talking on our insure this morning. Rebecca and I around this new generation of workers, and that's almost like a revolution of red tape. Why's it in the way you gotta do better ways to be management cloud health care you named the vertical isn't a capacity to disrupt, create value. So you have this kind of shift happening. But you guys are also technology leaders. So when when you see things like space, >> Yeah, these were kind >> of tell signs that the CIA adopting the d o d. Look at the big contracts are coming in. People are working it hard. These air tell signs that the growth Israel >> Yeah, grab reaction to that gross Israel and I and I like to talk to my leaders about while we've had phenomenal growth, and that's fantastic. Way really are only getting started because now, in 2018 I really saw our customers doing unbelievable work leads very hard mission. Critical work was that they were meeting from it from it's kind of old environment, moving it on day to be asked, migrating and totally optimizing it. Now what's changing within the intelligence community and D o d is that you know, in 2013 when the icy made this decision made, it started changing even enterprise views of moving to the cloud from a security perspective. But you have that shift has happened. Now you see d o d moving for Jet I, which will be announced hopefully in July or August. Hope hopefully scene. But even without Jed, I. D o. D is making massive mate to cloud. I mean, and by the way, there no blockers now, like a year ago when we talked here, there were still some blockers for them. Today, really pretty much every blocker has been remade so that they can move a lot faster. So even outside of Jed, I we see our d o. D customers moving. You heard Kenny Bow and our debt today on stage, Who's the CEO of the special access program? Talk about what they're doing and why Cloud became an important element of their mission. And I could tell you, Kenny works on some very challenging and difficult mission programs for D. O. D. So that these air kind examples. On the flip side, I met with some CIA's yesterday from the state and local government. Now that has been a super surprising market for me where I'm seeing them. Actually, 2018 was a true change of year for them. Massive workloads in the state Medicaid systems that are moving off of legacy systems on a TVs, justice and public safety systems moving off on TBS. So that's where you're seeing moves. But you know what they shared with me yesterday, and my theme, as you saw today, was removing barriers. But they talked about acquisition barrier still, that states still don't know how to buy cloud, and they were asking for help. Can you help kind of educate and work with their acquisition officials? So it's nice when they're asking us for help in areas that they see their own walkers. >> So what accounts for the fact that these blockers air sort of disappearing as you set up on the main stage this morning? cloud is the new normal, right? Everyone is really adopting this cloud first approach. And what accounts for the fact that these challenges ey're sort of slowly dissipating? Well, there, you know, some of >> the blockers had been very legacy, and I'd like to tell you already that kind of old guard helped create a lot of these models. And most of these models, as an example of acquisition, were created so that governments had to pay at friend. So these models were like, pay me a lot of many a friend and then let's hope I will use them all that technology. So now we come along and say, Actually, no, you don't need to pay us anything up front. You could try it and pay as you use it and then scale that and they're like, Wait, wait a minute. We don't know how to do that model. So part of these things have been created because of all systems that what's changing those systems is that you can't you again if you can't change gravity, and we're at the point where it is the new normal, and you cannot change gravity, and they're seeing security. If you think about security is the number one reason they're moving to the cloud. Once you start having security issues, they on their own start removing blockers because they're like we've got it made faster because we wanted our secure. >> I know you've got a lot of things going on. You got customer visits. Your time's very tight. Appreciate you coming on. But I got to get and I want to talk about check for good programs you launched what happened at the breakfast of the stories. We could go for an hour on that, but I really want to dig into this ground station thing. And one of the coolest thing I saw reinvent when it kind of got launch. This is literally it reminds me the old Christopher Columbus days is the world flat is flat. We'll know the world is round. You have space? Yeah, space and data. It's gonna change the coyote edge to be the world. Right? So this is a game changer. I see this game changer way had your GM on earlier. Brett, what's what's going on with ground? So how is that going to help? Because it's almost provisioning back haul. It's gonna help. Certainly. Rural area st >> Yeah, way ahead of Earth and Space Day yesterday. So we kicked off with that with two amazing speakers. And the reason ground station is so important. By the way, it was a customer of ours in the US intelligence community that told us about six years ago we needed to create this. So you know where I said 95% of our services or customer driven? It was a customer that said, Why doesn't a TVs have a ground station and we really listen to them? Work backwards? And then we launch a ground station. I became general availability in May, and that is really about creating a ubiquitous environment for everyone, for space, for the space and satellite communications. So you can downlink an uplink data. But then the element of utilizing the cloud the process and analyze that data in real time and be ableto have that wherever you are is really I mean, it truly is going to be an opportunity for best commercial enterprises and public sector customers. And you know, John, right now, the pipeline that we have seen already for ground station, even I'm surprised at how Many of our customers and partners are so interested with acid ate a >> government thing about, like traffic lights, bio sensors Now back hauling all that into a global, >> you know, many different way. And now start. If he saw the announced with the Cloud Innovation Center at Cal Poly, we're gonna be doing some research with them on space communications and programs around ground station. Chile is another location You've heard me talk about that has missed tell escapes in the world. And we're gonna be working in Chile doing some work on ground station there in the Middle East. So this is, by the way, global. While the Qena it kind of came. Tosto, >> go to Cal Poly together way. We're gonna go to Chile. >> Chile next. Yeah, chili is great. So you could get two best locations with me. I would love that line here. Next. Exactly 11. Yes. >> Thank you so much for >> back. And make sure we get all those other days. >> Yes, because next time I've got to tell you that tape for good. There's too much not to talk about. So we have to convene again. >> Come to your office in the next couple months of summer. I'll make a trip down. We'll come to >> thank you all for being here. Thank you so much. Thank you. >> Thanks so much, Theresa. I'm Rebecca Knight for John Furrier. Stay tuned. You are watching the Cube.

>> Live from San Diego, California It's the queue covering Sisqo live US 2019 Tio by Cisco and its ecosystem, Barker's >> Hey, welcome back to the Cube. Lisa Martin with steam in a man's way are Day one of our coverage of Cisco lie from San Diego. We're gonna be here for three days of coverage, but a great day so far. And we're pleased to welcome back one of our Cube alumni, Kenny Christiansen, the practice director from Insight with the Cloud and Data Center transformation group. Kitt, welcome back. >> Thank you for a little while. >> It has been a little while. So give our audience a little overview of inside your partnership with Cisco and some of the history of how you got to Insite. >> Um, yeah, so you remember US. Data like way were smaller company than we are now. Focus on Cloud Davidson transformation. We've talked it della vincey and see events. Things like that way We're Cisco partner for about 10 years and recently we were acquired and we did with name sounds like cloud and Data Center transformation. We've talked about cloud in the channel and all these other things um inside acquired us Insight has kind of four major service solution sets, if you would. Some people look at them is a supply chain company, and it's a great large supply chain company, Microsoft Largest global partner. Some people understand it for the device in use devices that's called connected workforce. Each of these air pretty big businesses, you know, compared to what we are. What was Data link is now what's called Cloud David Senate transformation. Um, so we're helping people with the journey to the cloud and the hybrid cloud and all that other stuff. Francisco right, Dead center in the middle of that and then the 4th 1 is really excited to go diddle diddle innovation. And that's a couple of companies Blue Metal, Cardinal, etcetera again 1,000 people. Microsoft I'll Tee and aye, aye, partner of the year. So all of that is a pretty large channel organization. If you want. >> That's great stuff can. And we always. We love to talk to the channel as the folks on Wall Street to It's like you know we do. A channel check is okay. You know, Cisco's got a few areas that have, you know, stronger growth in the market overall, security's doing well. A few other spaces that are, you know, growing faster overall than the market helping grow where we're Cisco's going. So give us the reality. What's happening with your customers? What's driving, you know, since the most growth in your business. And you know where is where is Cisco kind of leading the pack? >> So we're doing really well a system, and I don't know if it's because we're helping clients build solutions that truly lied to business outcomes. We're not order takers, so we're actually moving up. We're now 54th largest partner. We're growing well, high single digits growth, which is pretty phenomenal and such a big number. We're talking $1,000,000,000 now and growing that level on DH. There's a number of reasons, you know, some of it is there's a lot of great technology and get into some of those way. See, the economy is being pretty good. Not bad. Yet you know everybody for it. Worried about what might happen. You mentioned security. We could get into a little bit of that. That's driving a lot of network refreshed and stuff like that. Um, you know, a little bit of Inter company, you know that we're getting our stuff together. So this large company with 15,000 customers, you know, acquires a company with 2,000 customers, and now we're getting introduced into the 15,000 with less friction. So that's helping us. And that's helping Francisco business. >> So here we are at Cisco Live, 30th time that they've done a customer partner. Event network has not only changed dramatically since their first event in 89 which was called networkers, I believe. But networking technology has also massively changed. You mentioned security, and now in this multi cloud world, no longer can you just put a firewall around Data Senate, right? Obviously, that the work we have, this core cloud edge very a Morpheus environments proliferation of mobile of mobile data traversing the network's talk to us about when you're talking with customers who need to transform their data centers. Where do you start from? A networking conversation perspective, where automation comes in where security comes in, >> you know, a lot of the cloud names. Their transformation says to me the edge of the network, you know, converts, infrastructure, stuff of that that's on the edge. The network security guys, which I'm not. You know, I work with them very closely, but there we almost separated, sells out from the data center. Networking security. But security's in the end to your point, right? I've got software to find access. I've got mobile access points I've got, you know, te Trae Shin. I've got you know, all of these products that are helping people that in the past they were just patching holes in the dyke, you know? Hey, this happened. Let's put this off for product. This happened. Let's put this in. We actually built a security practice like the last three or four years ago. It's growing. You know, the number of people that are, whether it's regulation compliance. You know, I got some real problem. I think I've got a problem and I don't know what it is. Our ability to come back and sit down and say, Let's evaluate what your situation is. So I was talking to the networking guys, so wow, enterprise network is up way up. What's driving that I need to transform or is that you know what isn't there like a lot of times it's something our long security that's making them step back and reevaluate. And then sometimes that draft transfer translates into entire network refresh. >> So you mess in Cisco te Trae Shin? That's one I've heard a number of times having some growth. What? What else? What are some of the, you know, hot products out there in your >> eyes based software to find FT. When hefty access. >> So one of the things I just don't understand Cisco actually has a few solutions and some of those areas any specific products that you call out or, uh, you know, the >> enterprising, that working I wouldn't go through each and every individual one. I think this is my view of the layman, right, Because I'm the data center guy and here's the security guy hears them working. Got I think Francisco started acquiring all these security companies three years ago and you watched it. It looked like a patchwork quilt and said, This doesn't fit together now. It fits together. That story is really solid. And so we've got clients that have had the luxury of either salmon. I'm going to do a refresh because I don't want to keep plugging hole, and maybe my technology was ready for it anyway because there's a lot of reasons to refresh right. My technology do digital transformation. I need to get my network ready for Io ti etcetera. But I keep hearing security over and over, right. I've got compliance and regulation and all of this other stuff. >> But in your core space, the data center world, you know, and any products that are kind of leading the leading the charge right now, >> you know, one of the things that's happening in data center from a Cisco perspective because their babies, right, 10 years old in data centers, they didn't really have data center before that we were there at the beginning. And that's really how CDC t built our David Senate practice. So you know, when you talk multi cloud at the end of the day, even if I'm cloud first, I'm going to end up with some of these mission critical work clothes. They might be boring the running the company right there, not the innovative Deva Coyote. I think that seems cool running the company, and that's still a converged or a hyper converse play. And some of those you know, there's a lot of opportunities. We've been talking about all day with the Sisko be used. You know, some of those are ready for refresh, right? So there's a great opportunity that's going and say, OK, what's next? You know, we've added, you know, the latest server technology. We've had all these things in the server technology, obviously all flashing the storage technologies in all of that. So that's you. And then, you know, Cisco continues to innovate in data center solutions with things like Hyper flex, which were, you know, talked a little bit about getting started off a little slow, because again, just like they weren't servers. Why are they here? Why are they in hyper converts like get it? And now that product has slowly improved and improved and improved, and we're seeing tremendous growth there. And I think luxury they have on a data center solution is that some of the other guys have to do. Ah or hey, I'm the leading hyper converts technology. But it's me or everybody else, right? Um, and then this goes in and write that I could connect those things together. >> So let's talk about some customer examples you can feel free to anonymous days. I'm seeing a smile on your face when you come into an organization, whether it's 100 year old bank or it's a one of the cloud orders, maybe a smaller, more nimble organization that needs to undergo transformation did isn't a transformation. What was the conversation like with respect to helping them take all of these disparate, presumably to sprint solutions, whether they're 10 15 different security solutions, how does insight come in and help them? I want to say integrate, but almost plug these things in together to extract value and help them make sure that what they're implementing, much technology perspective is necessary and also an accelerator of their business. >> Yeah, lose a lot there. So we have this, you know. So a year ago, everybody wanted to talk about Cloud, and then they had the security guys. But now you have a lot of change. Agents of transformation, their title right? And so we have this belief you're not going to digitally transform Now. There are people that are born digital, but companies that were buying Cisco 10 years ago need to go through a digital transformation, and you can't go through a digital transformation and tell you have a data center transformation, wherein I transformation. So we've done studies. What slows people down? What makes he failed legacy stuff? Security concerns. I mean, these are the top three things, right? Budget. I was just running the pretty and so we start there that says, Where do you want to get to? And then most of it is Let's understand what you have, what? Your objectives, ours, an organization. I want to get to this. I want to get to that Well, before we start talking about technologies and it's very it's very services or even write. I can't just go in there and throw your bomb and say, This is going to fix your problem because everybody's different. So it is very custom and very services, or >> you're saying >> I was just going to say It's a pattern I've seen quite a bit for the last couple of years is step one is modernized the platform and then step two. You can worry about your data and application story on top of that in that multi cloud world. >> Step one, admit you have a problem. Yeah. So we actually did a study? Yeah. You know, we do this All right? Well, why does everybody keep stalling? Why we've been stuck in this. Nobody's refreshing things and stuff like that. Well, there's a lot of new technology. They don't get it. But, you know, do you want a digitally transform? Understand what you need to do, but we ask questions like rate your infrastructure just raided B minus across a lot of large companies. That was what the grade they gave themselves. So there's a lot of opportunities. Say, Okay, where do you wanna be? Yeah, and where do we >> start? 90% of people think they are above average drivers, so >> drivers, but they think they have a B minus in infrastructure and is like to consider that a problem. >> So once you as we wrap here in the next minute or so, once you get them to admit, yeah, there's there's problems here that incite other partners come and come in and improve data center transformation, modernizing that infrastructure, but it's got to be concurrent, was starting to modernize and transform other areas, right? >> Absolutely so you know, there's so many places you could start. Sometimes you just go and say, Well, what's your appetite Every once in a while, you get somebody who's ready to go through an entire transformational process, you know, $20,000,000 arm or whatever, and we get those opportunities. Those are awesome. Now we get to start back and figure out where you want to be and how to get there most efficiently. A lot of people have to pick up juice. You know? What's your concern right now on DH? So we'll help them figure that out again. It could be security. It could be. You know how many people we have over 1,000 enterprise customers around X equal two thousand eight? That's a problem, right? Because that's in the support within a year, right? That's a problem. That's, you know, opportunity. So they are still trying to figure out these things and then, ah, picture on where I want to get to what you kind of always said. And that's where that digital innovation group they've got all these Aye aye projects. And as we sit here and talk about those things that kind of born in the cloud, but they're common part of the infrastructure. It was easy to give the GPO in the cloud, but I'm going to have to start. So we actually have all the latest Cisco technology and storage technology of A I stuff in our labs and stuff like that. So there's a lot going on is our CEO said would say, It's a really exciting time to be in this business. >> It sounds like it. I wish we had more time to start digging through there, but you'll have to come back. Okay. All right. Thanks for joining us. >> Thank you >> for student a man. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube live day one of our coverage of Sisqo live from San Diego. Thanks for watching.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering IBM Think 2018, brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. We are live on Day One of our three days of coverage of IBM Think, the inaugural single event from IBM. I'm Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante. We're at the Mandalay Bay in beautiful sunny Las Vegas, and we're excited to welcome to theCUBE for the first time, Steve Hill, the Global Head of Innovation at KPMG. Welcome. >> Thanks for having me here. >> So you are giving a talk Wednesday, you said, at the event. >> Yes. >> I want to get a little bit into your role at KPMG, as well as your session. So talk to us a little bit about what your role as the Global Head of Innovation. >> So Innovation is an overused word. I don't particular like the word innovation, but in the context of my role, it really is taking a look at our business and our clients, and saying what it is that our clients need for their futures. What's going to create relevance for our clients as we go forward, and how does our portfolio of services relate to that relevance? And if we have gaps where we see our services not serving them best, or not going to serve them best in the future, my job responsibility is to help for strategy purposes and for investment purposes, bring those points to bear, and to get either investment into those areas, right, or changes in the business as appropriate to make KPMG more relevant to our clients, and to their relevance to their clients, right, that's the whole idea. >> So, Lisa and I talk to a lot of people in theCUBE, and we talk lots about invention, startups inventing something or new technology that gets invented, but innovation to us, and I think KPMG is at the heart of this is taking an invention and actually applying it to effect change, getting it adopted, >> That's right. >> and changing a business, a societal change potentially, is that-- >> That's right, I mean, our short phrase for it is idea to cash for our clients, right. I mean at the end of the day, and I think this is profound in certainly corporate governance evolution, right. We've seen the advent of lots of escrow changes of how companies have been managed, enterprise has been managed, right. The Dutch started with the East Indian Trading Company, one of the first large global enterprises, and since that time we've seen the maturation, the new roles. The CIO role didn't exist much prior to 1950, right. Today we're starting to see innovation to be a very important skill and capability for all corporations, all enterprises, including government, right. And I think we're starting to see a maturation of corporate capability, I would say, in the innovation space, because the pace of change is so fast today, the political, economic, technological, social trends are so complex that you've got to get something in your muscle memory that helps you change your business as much as operate it effectively. >> I'd love to know who you're talking to within organizations. You mentioned CIO role, the CISO role, chief data officer. >> Steve: Right. >> Who are the minds that you're helping to bring together so that an enterprise that needs to digitalize to be competitive will survive, right, really survive these days? How do you help them really embrace a culture of innovation as really there's no other choice? How do you get these minds collectively agreeing, yes, this is the direction we need to go in? >> Yeah, I think, I mean first of all, this is a C-suite conversation and a board conversation in many cases, but the reality is when you start to look at the lack of innovation in an organization, right, and when the environment changes, competitors start to change, and the more complex it is, it's harder and harder for companies to pivot and to reinvent themselves. And we're seeing a lot of unbundling of businesses in today's environment, whether it's a company that moves packages, right, or a professional services firm, or a company that used to distribute videos, right. I mean things change and some of the irony is that sometimes the innovation in companies like Kodak, Steve Sasson invented digital camera, it took eight minutes to go from a snap to a picture, but they invented digital technology from cameras, and that the distribution of digital videos is that it actually would help to, further the demise of that organization. So that notion of how do you take change going on in the environment that you're working at, and more importantly your customers and clients, how does that convert into your business, that's a C-suite conversation, and I think innovation can be embodied in a person to help build process, meaning how do you take an idea, how do you look at the marketplace and get sensory input, convert that to ideas for strategy and for investment, and the investments have to be deployed to the field to the business, and that relationship, that whole lifecycle of innovation requires a lot of people from the enterprise to be involved in it. And I would argue the culture has to evolve because until recently most people, in fact, I would say, including current times, most people in organizations are rewarded for doing what they do well, not breaking what they do, not rethinking what they do. And the more you get into that operational mindset, that I want to wring all the efficiencies out of this process that I can. Right, the more you're wed to the status quo, the more somebody comes in from the side and takes you out. >> So I love this conversation 'cause Steve you're able to take the long view and then I want to sort of shorten it up, and then maybe put it into a longer term context. So over our, your guys 20-plus-year careers, mine a little longer, most of this industry has marched to the cadence of Moore's Law, that's where innovation came from. >> Yes. >> How do you take advantage of Moore's Law? How do you go to client server software, whatever it was, the innovation equation is changing now. It seems to be a function of, these guys have been hearing me say this all day but data that's not siloed, but data that you have access to, applying machine intelligence-- >> Yep. >> And then getting cloud, scale, economics and network effects, and then applying it to your business. >> Bingo. >> So talk about how you see the new wave of innovation in this world of digital or however you phrase it. >> Well, it's interesting, I mean, I don't hear a lot of people phrase it the way you do which I think is spot on which is, and my words are, ubiquitous access to technology which is cloud, data, and that's a huge question mark and a big C-suite conversation. Having a lot of data isn't the key, having the right lot of data is the key. Right so Dyson is moving into auto-making today, right. They have a lot of data and it's very different from what the incumbents have. Is it better or worse? We're going to see, right. And then of course smart computers which is the machine intelligence, right. Those three elements, I think they're fundamentally changing labor productivity. And what I would say is to your question is that innovation is really important here because if all you do is take those three elements and you just digitize a status quo process, you might get marginal benefits, you might get some labor productivity enhancement, you may get some marginal improvement, you may change an outsourcing agreement to an onshore RPA deal, but if that's all you do, you're setting yourself up for a disappointment because what's really going to happen with thinkers, i.e., those that have innovations, they're going to rethink the process. Most of our analog systems are created around people checking people, so you may have nine steps, I'm making it up, in a process, that in a digital world only requires one or two or zero when launching in some cases. And so if you can rethink that process to go from a nine-step to a zero-step process or a one-step that's a nano second long, that changes the dynamic of the process. In fact that's not even nirvana, right, the real nirvana is can you change your business model, right? And I would use IBM, since we're here, as an example of going from a big box with a lot of people running around it, called IBM of the past, Watson, to an API engine that David Kenny has helped to build that says, we're going to have a platform business model leveraging network effects, and I want to have a supply and a demand curve that are much faster growing than my sort of organic ways of growing a network could be, right, through people point clicking. That's innovation. >> IBM is an interesting company because it is a company with a lot of legacy, but I think gets, as you just described it, but you look at the top five companies by market value today, they're six, 700-billion dollar market companies, they are data companies not just with a lot of data, but they've put data at the core, so it's Amazon, it's Apple, it's Facebook, it's Google, et cetera. They've put data at the core whereas most organizations, I'm sure many that you deal with, they have human expertise built around other assets that aren't data. It might be factories, it might be the bottling plants, et cetera. So there's a gap, I don't know, machine, AI gap between sort of those that are innovating today, now granted the stock market can change and, >> Sure. >> Who knows, maybe the oil companies will be back involved, not to drop but how do you deal, how do you advice your clients on how to close that gap? That seems like a huge challenge. >> Well it is a huge challenge, and I think, going back to the three elements, it would be very easy for you to dive bomb into a transformation effort and say, I'm going to go and get some smart computers and hire a bunch of people that know machine intelligence and natural language process, and all that stuff, and put them in a room, and go create some applications, the bottom line is, that's not unimportant. You got to get your hand on the mountain and start climbing, but the data piece, I mean, if you don't understand how data is going to be relevant to your business and to your clients and their clients, right, in the future, you lose. And the reason why those five that you talked about earlier are so successful is they think a couple of steps ahead on the data strategy, right, and they're not thinking about, most organizations by the way, they'll say we want a data strategy and then they'll relegate the strategy thinking part to their businesses which are bifurcated, and they look at the world in silos. And they're doing exactly what they should do which is take care of those businesses, but when you step back into those five companies you've talked about, they step back from those silos and say, what is the enterprise implications, and how do I create new businesses with correlations of data that I didn't have before? I think that requires a whole different level of strategy. It's C-suite and board that has to guide those kinds of decisions. You don't see a lot of people really getting their hands dirty around intense forward-thinking data strategies at the enterprise level like we're talking about here. >> You believe we are entering or going to enter shortly a productivity renaissance. >> I agree, yes. >> That's sort of I'm talking about our off-camera conversation. Explain why you think that, compare it to sort of the Industrial Revolution. Take us through your scenario. >> Sure. So, I mean, when you think about labor, I mean, what are the things that I think those three elements will give us as a society, as a global community, is a pretty big S curve jump in labor productivity. In fact we have at KPMG some efforts to quantify what that might be, looking at what we call frontier firms, and applying those practices back to incumbents. 90% of most industry players is saying what are those differences that we can model. The fact of the matter is when you go back to the Mechanical Revolution, the Industrial Revolution, people did everything by hand prior, right. Equipment helped them do things whether it was, even the printing press saw changes in society and labor, but when you start to getting into heavy manufacture in the Industrial Revolution, productivity was enhanced dramatically, and instead of putting all of these people who were doing things by hand out of business and out of work, it actually created more jobs, a lot more jobs, and a lot more wealth for society. I think we're heading for a similar S-curve change with smart computers, cloud, and with data. And that the roboticism of people is going to be automated, and people are going to be allowed to practice and use what's between their ears a lot more. That's going to create value, insight, new questions to be asked. I mean, how many times have you ever heard this? Every time you answer a question on something that's very important, you want to understand there's two more questions to be asked. Medicine is that way for sure. But you're going to start to see massive advancement in areas where people have had to use a lot of cognitive skills, right. It's severely under-leveraged because they were doing so much roboticism and doing things that computers can start to do now. So I think you're going to start to see a renaissance, if you will, of people using their nogers in ways we haven't seen before, and that's going to change the dynamics of productivity and labor in a way that's going to create wealth for everyone. >> And it's going to change industry. So, okay, so I got a bunch of questions for you then. >> Steve: Yep. >> Here we go. And I asked this earlier but I didn't really get an answer. Will machines? >> Steve: From me or from somebody else? >> No, from somebody else. >> Steve: Okay. >> Will machines make better diagnoses than doctors and when? >> I mean, what's the regression line? I mean, the samples said, I think today you'll find machines giving better diagnoses than doctors in some cases. >> Dave: Okay. >> I don't know where the regression line sits today, but if you look at the productivity of doctors going a hundredfold, and the morals scattering around lung cancer, it's impressive. >> Dave: Yeah. >> And do you want a doctor involved? Yes, you do, because part of it is in an orthodoxy of trust which by the way ten years ago, you wouldn't put your credit card online to buy anything, right. It's the same kind of orthodoxy. But I do think that machines can read so much more data, interpolate so many more correlations than people that when you add that to an oncologist for example and cancer, you have a super oncologist capabilities which is really what you're looking for. We're not looking to replace the oncologist per se, what we're looking to do is get the productivity of the oncologist from two to 200. >> I was talking about diagnoses. So you would say yes, okay. >> Yep. >> Will large retail stores mostly disappear in your opinion? >> No, I think they'll change. I think that the customer experience is still, we're still people, we need physical space, and we need physical things to touch, smell, and feel. I think those things will change, but we'll still need experiences. >> I'm going to keep going 'cause Steve's playing along. Will driving and owning your own car become an exception? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> I can elaborate if you want. >> Please, yeah, go ahead. >> So, I mean, the first, I mean, we actually did at KPMG a study called islands of autonomy which modeled LA and San Diego, Atlanta and Chicago, and we modeled how do people move. And we did this for a reason because autonomous vehicles are often times amalgamated as one thing. Oh well autonomous vehicle is coming so you better sell your sports cars and your SUVs, not so fast. The reality is mobility is very different based on where you are. If you're in the middle of Kansas or something, you're going to need a truck to run around in your farm, but if you're in LA or Atlanta or Chicago, you're going to move with autonomy, with autonomous vehicles, and then you're going to really enable mobility as a service very clearly, but differently. The way people move in these cities is different, and if the US auto industry understands those differences, and extrapolates those to a global marketplace, they're going to be very advantaged as mobility as a service becomes real, but the first car that goes, I hate all of the viewers that love this category, but sedan is the first cars to go. I would say sports cars, I race cars, so I love sports cars. People still ride horses today but they don't need them for transportation. And SUVs, right, specialty vehicles that you may, it may not, the economies may not be there, but as we know transportation and car ownership, it's going to change fundamentally, and that's going to have a massive effect on FS, right, insurance companies, banks that are doing loans today. It's going to have a big effect on healthcare. Mobility as a service is going to transcend to healthcare, mobile healthcare in ways that we can't see. >> You got great perspective. I got one more for you, maybe a couple more. Do you think traditional banks will lose control over payment systems? >> Well, a lot of them are already nervous about that, wouldn't you think? >> Yeah, but it hasn't happened yet though. >> I understand, the bottom line is no 'cause I think the traditional banks are getting smarter and they're leveraging their own innovation horsepower to understand things like Blockchain, and how to incorporate those things into their business models. So the answer is I think the way they do, look, banks exist because of one reason, trust. They have trusted brands, right. As long as they can stay current enough to be relevant to your banking needs, you're going to stay with that trusted brand. I think the trick for banks is how do they move fast enough, leverage the technologies that make your life easier, and not waiting three or four days for bank clearing of a check, for example. >> That's they say if you're-- >> And get to that trust in a new way. >> Unless you're a Bitcoin millionaire or a billionaire. >> You still need a bank. >> Maybe somewhere down the line. >> Yeah. >> Okay, last one, I promise. Will robots and maybe even RPA reverse offshore manufacturing advantages? >> Yes. >> Can you elaborate and give us a sense of-- >> I think, first of all, if you really look at what RPA is doing in many ways, is disintermediating the value of geographic location in many ways, right. So where I may have had, again this is important that you understand, so I can still go offshore today and get labor arbitrage and get margin, but I'm not rethinking the business. What I really want to do is own, I want to have more control and I want to have more flexibility and growth in that back office function. So it would behoove when you think about our RPA, and bring in our RPA technology so I have it one onshore, two, leverage the data more securely potentially, and then leverage that data as part of my lake to say how do I use that data to correlate to get to what I really need which is customer relevance at the front office, right. So, look, I think that this whole notion of you're in a different country, and therefore the labor pools are different, and therefore their arbitrage will get benefits from that, those days are over. I mean, it's just a question of when does it die. >> Dave: The data value offsets that arbitrage advantage. >> Well, forget that. The arbitrage is dead itself because the machines, >> Yeah, yeah, right. >> You're talking about orders that have made it to a cheaper per unit cost for an RPA, for a bot to do something than it is for a person that has to eat, sleep, take vacation, and get sick, and all that stuff. And so no matter where they are in the world. So what I would say is that notion is dead. It's just not buried. And overtime we're going to migrate again to machines doing all that robotic stuff. But, again, those people, they're going to do different things. It's not like we're going to see hordes, hundreds of thousands and millions of people not be able to work, I think they're going to be doing different things using their heads in different ways. >> Lisa: I like that answer. >> That's a plan. >> Dave: It's good. >> There's a price somewhere? >> I'm absolutely wrong, I just don't know how wrong, right. >> Well, it's fun to think about, and you provided some context. It was very useful. So, thank you. >> And I imagine folks that are attending your session at IBM Think on Wednesday are going to hear a little bit more into that. So thanks for sharing. >> We going to see some specifics, yeah. >> Thanks for sharing your insights, Steve, and for joining us on theCUBE. You guys, the innovation equation is changing, and I thank you for letting me sit between a very innovative and informative conversation. >> Thank you both. It was fun. >> Thanks Steve. >> For Dave Vellante, I am Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE live on Day One of IBM Think 2018. Head over to thecube.net to watch all of our videos with our guests, and siliconanglemedia.com for all the written articles about that. Also check out Wikibon, find out what our analysts are saying about all things digital transformation, Blockchain, AI, ML, et cetera. Dave and I are going to be right back after a short break with our next guest. We'll see you then. (upbeat music)