>> Narrator: Live from Austin, Texas, it's theCUBE covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon 2017. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Linux Foundation and theCUBE's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman and you're watching SiliconANGLE Media's Flychip Production of theCUBE. We're here at CloudNativeCon and KubeCon here in Austin, Texas. Happy to welcome back to the program, a many-time alum Tom Joyce, who is now the CEO of Pensa. Tom, great to see ya. >> Great to see you too. >> Alright, so Tom, we've had you on, so many different ecosystems, so many different waves of technology. Talk about Pensa, how it fits into this whole cloud native space that we're looking at this channel. >> Great, yeah, and like you said, you and I we've known each other a long time, we've seen a lot of revolutions in technology, and we're in the middle a number of them right now, and at this event you've got the Cloud-native folks and you've got the folks that are tackling connectainers and Kubernetes orchestration. You know, it's interesting, this crowd here is so young, and so creative. The last few days, I was at the Gartner Data Center Infrastructure show, and-- >> Stu: Not so young there? >> Not so young, but the same problems, right? Two different communities trying to solve the same problems. Which are how do we deal with insane complexity? How do we deal with an environment that's now not just three public clouds and some hybrid clouds, but a growing list of specialty clouds. How do we manage all of that? And what Pensa is trying to do, is be a part of solving that problem, using intelligent automation technology. Especially in managing the underlay complexity, the infrastructure layer. It's kind of funny we've gone through a period of time when the whole discussion has been, hey, containers are going to be at Pensa, and infrastructure doesn't matter, and infrastructure is going away. I think there's some truth to how that is evolving, but it still matters especially when you get down to having to deliver services to customers. >> Tom first of all, Dan Cone got on stage from the CNCF, and he said, "It is exciting times for boring infrastructure." >> Tom: Yeah. >> Maybe too exciting. I love that line, because every wave comes out, it was like, Tom you remember, virtualization, I'm not going to have to worry about things like that. >> It's been the biggest revolution, and it is the biggest wave of infrastructure ever. >> We spent a decade fixing that. Containers came out, oh, once again we're extracted away and it's going to take that. So, what do you see as that role, between the infrastructure layer and that cloud native? What are the big challenges? What are your customers seeing, and how Pensa have an effect? >> Well, I think what we're seeing, in my opinion, is we're going from operations running everything to DevOps, to now their starting to talk about NoOps. How do we get to a point where-- >> Ah, we might have argued over the terminology. We need Ops, obviously. >> Here's what I think, I think it's going to be less Ops and more architecture. I think the challenge becomes around, how do you do the design, how do you architect these systems so that they'll work and not fail. It's a lot like one metaphor I heard somebody use and I'm going to steal is we went from drafting on a sketch pad, using CAD technology, to using 3D CAD technology, to automated CAD technology, to now servers providing it. Right? And what happened? Everybody got smarter about architecture being the important part, not the actual physical plugging together. I think the role of the architect, in a cloud native environment, in a Kubernetes environment, in a VM environment, is frankly more important than ever. Somebody needs to know how the tools work, to make sure the the service levels actually deliver. I have sat in a lot of these meetings where people say, "Look, just put your old app in a container "and you can run it anywhere, it'll be fine." Somebody needs to think about the architecture. We want to provide intelligent technology that helps them do that. Like AutoCAD and like some of these things that came along in that ecosystem. >> One of the things I've been poking at, you know, most of this year and coming into this show especially, is people say, "Ah, it's too complicated." The response really is, "Well apologizes, it's never going to get simple." What we need is, I need proper tooling, things like automation to be able to help because humans alone will not be able to fix that. I really need to have the combination of the tooling, proper architecture, as you said. What are you seeing, how's that playing out in the customer environment? >> I think what we're seeing is folks figuring out that number one it's cross domain and cross cloud. So whatever you design needs to work in multiple different environments that are going to end up having different capabilities. Nobody really has deep expertise and everything about networking, everything about containers, everything about compute and storage, but all those things still matter. What folks are asking for is a layer of technology that kind of arbitrates between the underlying infrastructure and the upper level applications, they're actually trying to deliver. And that's where this automation layer, that's submerging comes in. Part of that orchestration, and part of it's what we do. What we're focusing on is design, validate complex designs, build them and deploy them, using tools that help people do that a lot faster and get it right every time. So mistakes don't transpire. >> Yeah, Tom, I want you to help explain to our audience this whole SDN wave, kind of it played out, and sure Vmware NSX and Cisco ACI, they're doing okay, but for a lot of the industry, SDN equals still does nothing. Yet networking critically important, heavily involved in both the container and all this cloud native discussion. How are we fixing networking, how is it being set up for this type of environment versus what we we're trying to do with SDN? >> I think this is a good point, I think you've got SDN and the enterprise. You also have network functions virtualization and the service providers and often overlook that in the enterprise you're going through cloud native and DevOps transitions. And surge providers are going through a revolution of their own. Going from being telcos, becoming digital service providers. The problems are similar that technologies are different. My observation is this, is the hype cycle's real. We've gone through five years of talking about SDN, talking about open stack, talking about network functions virtualization. All of a sudden now, what I've seen in this job is that there's real money getting spent and the technology's being used. NSX's being used in a whole variety of ways that people didn't anticipate. We're seeing in everyone of these service providers, whether they're a classic telcos, they're wired, or they're wireless, or they're cloud. They're investing in technologies to revolutionize how that core of that network works, and how the edged network works. I think the first signs of that are really NSX and SDN. SDN has now gone mainstream because customers have seen that there's a real used case for it. That's kind of your first broadly applicable network function. And I think through the next couple of years, it will be one after another. Those problems are going to get knocked down. Frankly in our business, we started focusing on a lot of these enterprise problems with NSX and VSAN and software defined data center technologies around VMware. We're working on containers, but frankly the biggest area of growth for us is probably going to be these large service providers. It's like a trillion dollar business and it's going to be revolutionized over five years. We're getting involved in a lot of these network functions virtualization conversations. I wouldn't say it does nothing, it does a lot, but getting there, it's been a really hard technology to figure out. >> It took a little bit while to mature. The other thing you've got some strong background on, the management monitoring in this type of environment. What's new? How does that change in the networking space, when we have all microservices and all of these various pieces there? What are you seeing there? >> The short answer is I have a little bit of a controversial view on that. It's not unique but I think-- >> John Ferrer would say, we love controversy here on theCUBE. >> I think monitoring goes away. Monitoring the way it's been done for the last 30 years goes away. I think when we had mainframes, we had client servers, we had internet, and now we have this set of technologies we're working with in virtualization. Every time that transition has happened, there's been a whole bunch of monitoring companies. I think classic monitoring is eventually going to go away. Ultimately, there is a lot of complexity, and the machine needs to manage it, right? The machines going to need to manage it. The eyeballs watching the problem and remediating it to a greater and greater extent, are going to be automation technologies. Versus throwing out more and more alerts in front of a human that says, "I'm just going to turn them off "because I don't know what this means." I think automation technologies are going to replace classic monitoring. Again, you go around this event here, the folks that are doing cloud native, they don't want to have a bunch of monitoring alerts. They're not going to tolerate that. They just want to deliver an application service. They don't want to deal with operations, they don't want to deal with monitoring, they don't want to deal with problems, they want the problems to take care of themselves. That's hard, but I think that's coming. >> Tom, the end users whether it be enterprise, service providers, there's a lot of technology out there, there's a lot of things happening out there. When do they know to call Pensa? Give us some of the big value problems that they should knowing that say, "Oh hey", "Yes that makes sense to me, I need to give you guys a call" >> You can boil it down very simply, we deal with two kinds of people, and they're really the architects. Think about that CAD analogy. We're dealing with people that are doing complex designs in two areas. One is typically software defined data center. So people that are bringing all of these technologies together and need to deliver a working system, maybe a really complex proof of concept or big systems where they're using VMwear, as an example. We help them get that job done, do it fast. That's what the automation systems we provide do. The other is, in large scale service providers. Folks that are dealing with onboarding VNF's, building complex networks and have been grappling with that, with open stack in some of these early technologies for a number of years. We have a revolutionary way to onboard those VNF's, validate designs, deliver designs and do it in a way that integrates with all the open source technologies people are using. To be honest with you, I don't which of those is going to be more important to us, but their two big areas, and our technology applies to both. >> Tom, you've been CEO at a couple of companies now. I want to get your view point, just being the CEO for a startup in today's landscape, what's it like? What advice do you give your peers? When you guys are grabbing a drink at the bar, what are some of the biggest challenges and biggest things that excite you? >> We are to tired to grab a drink at the bar. I'll tell you that I love this. It is a great mental challenge, because again I've been like you, I've been doing this for over 30 years. It forces you to learn and learn and learn and question what you know. And that's what I really like, the opportunity to engage with the leading edge of technology. Frankly all the folks here are young and creative and it's forced me to become better at what I do. There are a lot more unknowns than working for a big company. With a big company, a lot of what you have to do is laid out before you. In this job, I have to constantly force myself to question what I know, to listen to the customer, to learn new things, and it can be tiring, but it's a good kind of tiring. >> Alright, last question I have for you. What are you most proud, what you've done since you've joined Pensa? And give us a little bit of outlook for 2018, for those that are watching, what should we be looking for, kind of miles stone deliverables or other items. >> I think what I'm most proud of, this sounds like a silly statement, but I'm proud of what the team has accomplished. I didn't do anything, right? I don't write the code. We have a bunch of engineers that are actually delivering the product. I think we've been really fortunate to keep all those people and get them focused on some big problems. I'm proud of delivering Pensa Lab to market, and I'm proud of the customers we've signed up, since we launched that just at the beginning of October. I'm proud of what we're doing with Nokia on large scale networking in the NFP area. And frankly I'm proud of the ability of this team to constantly engage and learn and try new things and take risks and screw up and try again. It's that whole experience, it's good to work with good people that you like. >> Alright and 2018? >> 2018 I think is going to be surprising for the people in terms of the kind of the reemergence of open stack. I think open stack is coming back. >> Don't let them hear that Tom, the wolves will come out. Why? >> Well because I think it's reaching at a point where the economics of certain kinds of cloud models, and frankly the economics of the Mware are forcing people to reconsider. But it especially around digital service providers. These large companies have been grappling with "How do we revolutionize our poor networks" for five years dealing with open stack. And they kind of got a lot of the stuff to work now. I think that is another sort of controversial statement. When I got into this job, I was like "Yeah open stack is dead". I was involved with Helion at Hewlett-Packard, and I was like "That's never coming back". Well guess what, it's coming back. I think the other thing is, we're going to see a lot more money being spent on revolutionizing the core networks, and these telcos and digital service providers. That's what I think the big things going to be. >> Absolutely, we've been at the open stack show for any years. The networking component especially for the telco and service providers, absolutely a strong area of focus. Your average enterprise, might not be looking for open stack. >> There might be pockets. >> Internationally there's some pockets, but absolutely. Tom Joyce, always a pleasure to catch up with you. Looking forward to seeing you the next time. And well be back with lots more coverage here from theCUBE at KubeCon. In Austin Texas, you're watching theCUBE.

hi everybody we're back after that break and we're here at the ServiceNow knowledge conference in Las Vegas with the aria hotel i'm here with my co-host and colleague Jeff Frick as you know we've been broadcasting also live from sa p sapphire now in orlando we're also out of google i/o today markers and Hopkins and Kenny Bowen are out there so we get it all covered for you check out SiliconANGLE calm for all the blogs and all the news check out Wikibon org for all the research youtube.com SiliconANGLE youtube.com slash SiliconANGLE for all the videos that we're doing here and we are going to continue to unpack the ServiceNow messaging the marketing messaging and test the alignment with the customers Craig Wishart is here he's the CIO of service stream an Australian company and customer of service now Greg welcome to the cube thank you very much mortals yeah so we've been talking to a number of practitioners this morning about the show about sort of how they're using service now but before we get into that tell us more about service stream and tell us about your role there is a CI L show so service stream is a Australian listed business and we really have three unique business divisions so we have a telecommunications business which specializes in rolling out and managing fiber across the country nationally we have a mobile communications business which specializes in building mobile communications towers in fact this year we'll do around about fifteen hundred of those towers and upgrading to the new LTE standards and we have an energy and water business which in itself is quite diverse but everything from in-home services from solar installations on roofs and hot water service through to read or out 40 million meter reads a year initiator coming with over 400,000 smart meter replacements we have a field force of about 4,000 plus people which makes us one of the largest in the country for field force and of course you know service stream by nature graph through acquisition and one of the challenges that we found well when I first joined 12 months ago was it by default you end up with very different cultures very different platforms very bespoke architectures and that sort of led us down the path in many ways to looking for a platform that could start to consolidate business but start to give us some leverage through commonality of process and also some synergies through the way in which the businesses work together bespoke is a good description of the way that a lot of IT operations their own so you guys are seriously into infrastructure obviously well that's true you know in terms of what we do as a technology team we saw our our objectives is being very closely aligned with the business unit in terms of being able to build commonality and drive costs out you know one of the one of the key premises that we offer to our clients is that we manage your customers customer and we do it very well and we do it on the basis of delivering to the expectations of our clients and you know to do that you really need a platform that can get you from the back of house if you like from the data center right out to parts of Australia which is still going through connectivity issues with telecommunications so we have a very mobile workforce you know if people working from right up the north end to write down into the metros so you were at the the CIO decisions conference that was taking place here i guess the i call it conference but it's like a sub advantage yeah sort of a breakout if you will at this event before we get into sort of your implementation of service now talk a little bit about what was shared at that little side event what kind of themes were struck and you know what was on the minds of the cios that were in that yeah look that's a good question and it was it was firstly it was a terrific event to be a part of and around people who are like-minded in a sense of you know one thing you find when you start talking to people regardless of where you work you've faced the same challenges you know you're under increase in cost pressures to not only take cost out but to deliver value the other challenges you're facing too often are how do you compete very quickly you know the market is moving so quickly and your competitors are moving quickly that often what you're trying to do is not only keep pace but innovate at the same time so innovation was a key theme I think the other thing that came out is you know how do we start to leverage what each of us are doing and how do we start to learn more from one another and I found that quite refreshing because in most instances when you're ten these sorts of conferences people are very guarded and one thing I've really taken out of this one in particular is that people are very open and want to share so you know the three key themes i took out here is you know how to CIOs lead and how do you get business connectiveness second piece is around how do you drive innovation often when you're competing against taking cost out and I think the third thing that you know became quite obvious to is how can we start to work together to leverage the capabilities of this platform which seemed to be developing you know week by week so let's talk about some of those themes I want to start with good leadership yeah what has changed in the last 10 years as far as CIO leadership look that's you know that's something to that is being discussed quite openly in Australia to the role of the CIO and in many ways I think the title itself will change over time but you know I think if we go back 15 20 years you know cos typically evolved from being infrastructure applications people and they grew up with specific knowledge around how to build stuff and you know over the last five years I think what we've seen is a transition of you know the CIA role being very much the person in the business who has accountability for information systems and technologies but really they're there to provide coaching and leadership to our business units on how they can best leverage new technologies you know to increase their profitability drive revenue take costs out but also increasingly how do you manage your workforce it's a very diverse role and I think one of the challenges and I'm talking about this later today my presentation the CI roll roll by default can also lock you into a paradigm that restricts you from being innovative and you know one of the things I'm talking about today is that you know be careful in a sense if you define yourself as a cell role in fact you may define yourself as being out of the business I see the role of the CIO now really being another business executive at the table who really just has accountability for systems and process so that leads me to the next you know piece that you mentioned which is innovation I want to talk about the role of the CIO at innovation jeff's from from Silicon Valley where there's a lot of innovation going on and one of the one of the montreux Silicon Valley right right Jeff is if you're going to fail fail fast you know failure is oftentimes not something that's part of the cios DNA in fact oftentimes they're trying to avoid failure yeah so talk about that dissonance how in your view can the CIO both lead and drive innovation in a climate that is frequently thought of as you know de-risking themselves yeah what you know when we talk about the themes and what's what's obvious and I put into this context you know there's there's three things that have really come up over the last six months which continue to resonate no matter where you are and they are you know how do we solve for mobility how do we solve for you know what is effectively going to be big data and how effectively you know do we solve for what is going to become predominantly these cloud-based services so if I talk about de-risking you know I think I think one of the challenges here is where we run at either end at times we run from right at legislation end which is what can you do and of course in Australia we often face into the context of you know data sovereignty it's always a big issue in terms of when you speak to you know the legal team wears it hosted who's got the data how can we protect the data in the IP right through to I think the role that Sarah plays in terms of you know taking investments and turning them into things that you know make sense for the business I think the challenge around de-risking is often about relationships and you know I think there's a lot of things that you can read about it but at the end of the day the position you take as a chief information officer as a big you know business executive how do we take an investment strategy and how do we translate into something it's going to mean something for the business either in adding value to the share price or taking costs out of the business so that we can do more with the money that we save you know I think by many default you know we are constrained sometimes what legislation but I think often it's just the questions we ask that helps us solve for those problems now of course we the third area want to talk is the collaboration we do a lot of these events and a lot of them are you know at a big boom vendor shops like IBM or HP or EMC and by the very nature of this their heft they're running into partners and there you know the whole cooperation yeah what's the cios attitude on collaboration in terms of I mean though the peer-to-peer thing is very strong you guys culturally very strong with your peers but how do you collaborate with competitors as that hole co-op titian thing hit your your world and talked about it specifically in terms of collaboration within the service now can yeah I think I think we're very much on the start of our service now journey we've we've been going now really for about six months and like most we started with the night esm instance from what I've been able to see we're very well progressed on what we do and obviously we'll talk about that as well but you know we I don't think there's anything that we're doing that hasn't been done elsewhere and I think the challenge is how do you apply that in your own context we've been very open with a lot of our people in terms of you know even some of our competitors are watching what we do and of course we watch what they do at the end of the day I think the measures of success are very simple for our clients and that is deliver the services that we ask you to do deliver them very well the technologies that you use regardless well you know what that's up to you so Craig talk a little bit about mobile and you know you mentioned that you've got 4,000 field guys out there and Australia for those who don't know still doesn't have a road that goes all the way across right i mean there so there's some desolate areas is a bumpy one at one point is there a bumpy one if you have a if you have a range rover hope it's about anyway so talk about you know one the challenges of having this field force and then to how the current trends and mobility are impacting your ability to know that help them do their jobs perhaps a couple things on this one that you know and I'll start at the telecommunications in the public internet level you know we we do run into challenges around the breadth of and the size of our country and we do run into coverage issues but you know if you put that aside where that seems to be growing and some people may be familiar with what the federal government's doing around their national broadband network program which is in our 36 billion dollar program to provide connectiveness around the country that aside you know from our perspective we want to have people in the field we want them working and the way to do that is to provide them with infield devices a lot of our people for so long have been working off paper they literally print paper out they'll take it with them they'll fill it out in some cases they'll roll it over the bonnet of a four-wheel drive in Western Australia they'll mark it up with a texture I'll probably spill some toffee on it at the same time that will then be post packed back into the main office where will render that back into autocad and then we'll figure out six weeks later that actually we really don't understand what you've done and we'll send them back out again it's probably not the best way to do things so you know if I think about what we're doing there very shortly our people will take out a tablet they'll mark it up on the fly will be using surface now to drive the service autumn side of that and as mediately as they submit that will render that in autocad in have an infield collaboration which is just going to take out six weeks of a cycle time just at the front end and you know to reduce 0 error rate by at least eighty percent the second piece which i think is really interested in terms of how we're using the product within the next six months will have nearly 250 million dollars of revenue flowing through service now whilst it's being used for itsm we're standing it up as a business platform with 250 million million dollars in revenue I'd say within a month the target will be half a billion so our revenue base will be flowing through the platform now to give you an example of what we're doing there we will do in home services for one of the utilities companies in Australian will drive about 70 to 80 million dollars worth of revenue through it this year and we are putting all of our service orders in there we're running asset management through the platform serialization of stock integrated into Division Microsoft's and vision persol are set we then take that information and we push that out to a tablet for our Enfield people who accept or reject the job now one great example of where service now so given us power that we didn't have is if you think for every hundred jobs that we do our technicians have to fill out 2,000 pages of a 4 it's a compliance issue that we've had to face into we service now we're driving it from form-based they mark it up on the tablet they then asked the custom to sign it they physically draw the house and mark up where the panels will go on the roof and they submit it for every job we do we take 20 pages of a 4 out and we take out back a house after you had to read that it's a remarkable thing to be able to do I think this year will take out 40,000 pages of a for that need review wow that is amazing i'm having saying all week that to me service now is about scaling your business and it's about delivering business value i try no you just gave two examples for its enabling you to reach means the scale and this i really like this value discussion is that is the value discussion in your mind something that its service now isn't is enabling additional value or is it just enabling you to actually see the value flow or a combination you know one of the things that i really liked about service now when i first saw it meant it's resonated with me since we started the journey is the simplicity of the interface and you know i was just talking to one of one of the service providers downstairs about some reporting and analytics software and i said what do you want to use for as it actually I don't want to use it I want my business execs to use it right because I don't want to be sitting there writing reports i think you know i need to be able to empower my people and my colleagues at the table as well as my board to be able to construct reports with information that makes sense to the problems they're trying to solve for you know and i think when we look at servicenow in terms of the value it derives its the simplicity of the way in which the information could be presented back and you know the information is then providing a framework for taking decisions and more importantly I want a framework from which our clients can see the value that we're pushing out to them we were talking earlier this morning to Fred ludie after his keynote and the internet of things came up he indicated that is one of the interesting trends yes he's tracking and then he sort of tied it back into service now as part of the vision they basically he wants to touch virtually you know everybody out there and you know presumably potentially every device out there yeah you guys are in this sort of Internet of Things business of instrumenting you know the the infrastructure energy infrastructure can you talk about that a little bit and talk about the whole you know this big data theme what this all means to your company I think you know the big big diet is interesting because I don't think it's really been defined I think it's still it very much at a concept stage so people talk about it in terms of what do we know about what we know they talk very broadly about social networks and interactions and information you can extract but perhaps I can give you a really good example of where we're going to take the platform next that will play into the big data piece you know over the next six months we will stand up a self-management workforce interface for our people so if you can imagine this which doesn't exist today I think we're really going to be first in the southern hemisphere to stand this up people will be able to register with our business putting in place in fact their skills their capabilities the insurances they hold the compliance as they hold the type of work that they want to do so for example I only want to work on a thursday sat down sunday and by the way I only work on single story houses I don't do doubles by the way here's my contracting model and the subset of contractors that I have and this is the rate that I'll work for now today we have a very heavy process-driven hey char you know I've got to talk to everyone and then I'll employ you and that process just takes too long we'll get to self managing of not only the registration cycle but also how I self-managed my profile now once i get to there think our workforce reach will move from 4,000 to 20,000 or 30,000 people will register with our business to do work for us that we can then go out and capture so you'll be able to essentially funnel down those candidates right so you didn't add so then you talk about Big Data right and you say so now that I know who you are what else do I know about you in the public internet world and I can start to look at what people say about you on facebook so i can say ok you're a plumber terrific we need that sort of skill and capability what else do you know out there and how do you represent yourself out there because if i'm going to put you out there with one of our clients customers i need to know that you're going to represent us the way that i want you to be represented how about all this how about all the data that's going to come up with smart meters how do you envision using that that's the bets a great question when you're going to this year do somewhere around about 400,000 smart meter replacements and you know those sorts of jobs funny enough they take about twenty eight minutes each they're a very quick job the data that comes back off the smart meter obviously goes back into the utility providers but one thing that the utility providers in Australia doing very now is that they have what's called an in-home display device you put that device on your wall I don't know if you've got it in the US but you put it on your wall and you can look at it you know every minute and tells you how much energy you're consuming in your house and you can start to take decisions around the way in which you use your appliances but you know if you look at us we are very much the intermediary there to get that data to the house and back to the utility company and and for us of course service now will then form the backbone of the asset management cycle so we now know where that asset is we know when that s it needs to be treated and then we can proactively go back and help these people manage their devices both at a consumer and at the business end ya think you're a little bit of head up from New England we just finally get rid of our windmills yeah I know Austin you know the folks down at austin energy of doing some cool stuff like that yeah i think you know generally you're a little bit ahead of the companies now you're actually implementing those today is absolutely so we are doing the ship packing dispatch of the in-home devices today in australia and then we're also been doing the smart meter replacement for two or three years now we've got a large cycle to come so it appears that service now has great potential of the i likened to a tick it's not the best analogy sort of embedded into the organization yeah and then you know it's like a ticket of virus but but not really I mean you know it's funny because you talk about you know Salesforce and that's kind of how Salesforce happens right here by two licenses and then three seasons and five seats and then you got a million seats it seems like service now actually doesn't take that that sort of approach but nonetheless this whole not idea of a platform of the ability to develop other applications seems to be something that your organization could take advantage of our time where do you see that going I think from my perspective is and other things that we need to get right you know the first thing is we've got to be able to capture a workforce so you know really we need a workforce of people with skills and capabilities that we can leverage back into the market we want our clients to see the value in which we hole I think the second thing for us very much is that we have to be able to move information around very quickly and we need to capture the information in terms of the work that we perform push that information out get the information back and then pass that back to our clients and of course like any business we need to be run a very effective billing cycle so to give an example again how service now is helping us we've built in what's called an RCT I process which effectively is just a taxi invoicing so when I go out and do a job once I close that job in service now that kicks a process that starts the billing cycle so I will immediately know that I've just been paid for that job you know and we run some assumptions around the quality and the work that you've done so that part is also next steps for us in terms of just maturing it I think the third piece which is probably one of the challenges of I think we're all going to face in tosa 6 to 12 months is so we've got all this data now what do we do with it you know do we do we understand the information that we've got and you know one of the things that I really like about the platform that will start to work on more is how can you extract the data and such you know such a format if you like for our business leaders they can start to take decisions I really think that the growth of the platform is not going to come from my team I think I'm going to be surpassed by my business leaders and executives are going to ask me to do more and I think they're going to ask me to do more in the field and the space of mobility and they're going to ask me to do more and how can they start to interpret the data they've got to drive business performance yeah in the example you gave it so this is a great example of instrumenting your business and that seems to be where it's headed yeah taking out costs in efficiencies and dry new revenue opportunities yeah I'll go everything alright great so Craig thanks very much for for coming to thank you thank you John says we talked a little bit about Big Data go to Wikibon 02 / big data you'll get all the free research that we've done we've got a new infographic out just today that actually Forbes did on our data so that's kind of cool check out the blog of Craig Bashar thanks very much for coming on this is the cube right back after this work