(upbeat music) >> Let's kick things off. We're here at Mike Capuano the CMO of Pluribus Networks, and Ami Badani VP of Networking, Marketing, and Developer of Ecosystem at NVIDIA. Great to have you welcome folks. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. >> So let's get into the the problem situation with cloud unified networking. What problems are out there? What challenges do cloud operators have Mike? Let's get into it. >> The challenges that we're looking at are for non hyperscalers that's enterprises, governments Tier 2 service providers, cloud service providers. And the first mandate for them is to become as agile as a hyperscaler. So they need to be able to deploy services and security policies in seconds. They need to be able to abstract the complexity of the network and define things in software while it's accelerated in hardware. Really ultimately they need a single operating model everywhere. And then the second thing is they need to distribute networking and security services out to the edge of the host. We're seeing a growth cyber attacks. It's not slowing down. It's only getting worse and solving for this security problem across clouds is absolutely critical. And the way to do it is to move security out to the host. >> With that goal in mind, what's the Pluribus vision how does this tie together? >> So basically what we see is that this demands a new architecture and that new architecture has four tenets. The first tenet is unified and simplified cloud networks. If you look at cloud networks today, there's sort of like discreet bespoke cloud networks per hypervisor, per private cloud, edge cloud, public cloud. Each of the public clouds have different networks, that needs to be unified. If we want these folks to be able to be agile they need to be able to issue a single command or instantiate a security policy across all of those locations with one command and not have to go to each one. The second is, like I mentioned distributed security. Distributed security without compromise, extended out to the host is absolutely critical. So micro segmentation and distributed firewalls. But it doesn't stop there. They also need pervasive visibility. It's sort of like with security you really can't see you can't protect you can't see. So you need visibility everywhere. The problem is visibility to date has been very expensive. Folks have had to basically build a separate overlay network of taps, packet brokers, tap aggregation infrastructure, that really needs to be built in to this unified network I'm talking about. And the last thing is automation. All of this needs to be SDN enabled. So this is related to my comment about abstraction. Abstract the complexity of all these discreet networks whatever's down there in the physical layer. I don't want to see it. I want to abstract it. I want to define things in software but I do want to leverage the power of hardware to accelerate that. So that's the fourth tenet is SDN automation. >> Mike, we've been talking on theCUBE a lot about this architectural shift and customers are looking at this. This is a big part of everyone who's looking at cloud operations, NextGen. How do we get there? How do customer customers get this vision realized? >> That's a great question. And I appreciate the tee up. We're here today for that reason. We're introducing two things today. The first is a unified cloud networking vision. And that is a vision of where Pluribus is headed with our partners like NVIDIA long term. And that is about deploying a common operating model SDN enabled, SDN automated, hardware accelerated across all clouds. And whether that's underlay and overlay switch or server, any hypervisor infrastructure containers, any workload doesn't matter. So that's ultimately where we want to get. And that's what we talked about earlier. The first step in that vision is what we call the unified cloud fabric. And this is the next generation of our adaptive cloud fabric. And what's nice about this is we're not starting from scratch. We have an award-winning adaptive cloud fabric product that is deployed globally. And in particular, we're very proud of the fact that it's deployed in over 100 Tier 1 mobile operators as the network fabric for their 4G and 5G virtualized cores. We know how to build carrier grade networking infrastructure. What we're doing now to realize this next generation unified cloud fabric is we're extending from the switch to this NVIDIA BlueField-2 DPU. We know there's. >> Hold that up real quick. That's a good prop. That's the BlueField NVIDIA card. >> It's the NVIDIA BlueField-2 DPU, data processing unit. What we're doing fundamentally is extending our SDN automated fabric, the unified cloud fabric, out to the host. But it does take processing power. So we knew that we didn't want to do we didn't want to implement that running on the CPUs which is what some other companies do. Because it consumes revenue generating CPUs from the application. So a DPU is a perfect way to implement this. And we knew that NVIDIA was the leader with this BlueField-2. And so that is the first, that's the first step into getting, into realizing this vision. >> NVIDIA has always been powering some great workloads of GPUs, now you got DPUs. Networking and NVIDIA as here. What is the relationship with Pluribus? How did that come together? Tell us the story. >> We've been working with Pluribus for quite some time. I think the last several months was really when it came to fruition. And what Pluribus is trying to build and what NVIDIA has. So we have, this concept of a blue field data processing unit, which, if you think about it, conceptually does really three things, offload, accelerate, and isolate. So offload your workloads from your CPU to your data processing unit, infrastructure workloads that is. Accelerate, so there's a bunch of acceleration engines. You can run infrastructure workloads much faster than you would otherwise. And then isolation, So you have this nice security isolation between the data processing unit and your other CPU environment. And so you can run completely isolated workloads directly on the data processing unit. So we introduced this, a couple years ago. And with Pluribus we've been talking to the Pluribus team for quite some months now. And I think really the combination of what Pluribus is trying to build, and what they've developed around this unified cloud fabric fits really nicely with the DPU and running that on the DPU and extending it really from your physical switch all the way to your host environment, specifically on the data processing unit. So if you think about what's happening as you add data processing units to your environment. So every server we believe over time is going to have data processing units. So now you'll have to manage that complexity from the physical network layer to the host layer. And so what Pluribus is really trying to do is extending the network fabric from the host from the switch to the host and really have that single pane of glass for network operators to be able to configure, provision, manage all of the complexity of the network environment. So that's really how the partnership truly started. And so it started really with extending the network fabric and now we're also working with them on security. If you sort of take that concept of isolation and security isolation, what Pluribus has within their fabric is the concept of micro segmentation. And so now you can take that extend it to the data processing unit and really have isolated micro segmentation workloads whether it's bare metal, cloud native environments, whether it's virtualized environments, whether it's public cloud, private cloud, hybrid cloud. So it really is a magical partnership between the two companies with their unified cloud fabric running on the DPU. >> You know what I love about this conversation is it reminds me of when you have these changing markets. The product gets pulled out of the market and you guys step up and create these new solutions. And I think this is a great example. So I have to ask you how do you guys differentiate what sets this apart for customers? What's in it for the customer? >> So I mentioned three things in terms of the value of what the BlueField brings. There's offloading, accelerating and isolating. And that's sort of the key core tenets of BlueField. So that, if you sort of think about what BlueField what we've done, in terms of the differentiation. We're really a robust platform for innovation. So we introduced BlueField-2 last year. We're introducing BlueField-3 which is our next generation of blue field. It'll have 5X the ARM compute capacity. It will have 400 gig line rate acceleration, 4X better crypto acceleration. So it will be remarkably better than the previous generation. And we'll continue to innovate and add, chips to our portfolio every 18 months to two years. So that's sort of one of the key areas of differentiation. The other is that if you look at NVIDIA, what we're sort of known for is really known for our AI, our artificial intelligence and our artificial intelligence software, as well as our GPU. So you look at artificial intelligence and the combination of artificial intelligence plus data processing. This really creates faster, more efficient secure AI systems from, the core of your data center, all the way out to the edge. And so with NVIDIA we really have these converged accelerators where we've combined the GPU, which does all your AI processing with your data processing with the DPU. So we have this convergence really nice convergence of that area. And I would say the third area is really around our developer environment. One of the key, one of our key motivations at NVIDIA is really to have our partner ecosystem embrace our technology and build solutions around our technology. So if you look at what we've done with the DPU we've created an SDK, which is an open SDK called DOCA. And it's an open SDK for our partners to really build and develop solutions using BlueField and using all these accelerated libraries that we expose through DOCA. And so part of our differentiation is really building this open ecosystem for our partners to take advantage and build solutions around our technology. >> What's exciting is when I hear you talk it's like you realize that there's no one general purpose network anymore. Everyone has their own super environment, super cloud or these new capabilities. They can really craft their own I'd say custom environment at scale with easy tools. And it's all kind of that again this is the new architecture Mike, you were talking about. How does customers run this effectively, cost effectively? And how do people migrate? >> I think that is the key question. So we've got this beautiful architecture. Amazon Nitro is a good example of a SmartNIC architecture that has been successfully deployed but, enterprises and Tier 2 service providers and Tier 1 service providers and governments are not Amazon. So they need to migrate there and they need this architecture to be cost of effective. And that's super key. I mean, the reality is DPU are moving fast but they're not going to be deployed everywhere on day one. Some servers will have have DPUs right away. Some servers will have DPUs in a year or two. And then there are devices that may never have DPUs. IOT gateways, or legacy servers, even mainframes. So that's the beauty of a solution that creates a fabric across both the switch and the DPU. And by leveraging the NVIDIA BlueField DPU what we really like about it is, it's open and that drives cost efficiencies. And then, with this our architectural approach effectively you get a unified solution across switch and DPU, workload independent. It doesn't matter what hypervisor it is. Integrated visibility, integrated security and that can create tremendous cost efficiencies and really extract a lot of the expense from a capital perspective out of the network as well as from an operational perspective because now I have an SDN automated solution where I'm literally issuing a command to deploy a network service, or to deploy a security policy and is deployed everywhere automatically saving the network operations team and the security operations team time. >> So let me rewind that 'cause that's super important. Got the unified cloud architecture. I'm the customer, it's implemented. What's the value again, take me through the value to me. I have a unified environment. What's the value? >> I mean the value is effectively, there's a few pieces of value. The first piece of value is I'm creating this clean demark. I'm taking networking to the host. And like I mentioned, we're not running it on the CPU. So in implementations that run networking on the CPU there's some conflict between the DevOps team who own the server, and the NetOps team who own the network because they're installing software on the CPU stealing cycles from what should be revenue generating CPUs. So now by terminating the networking on the DPU we create this real clean demark. So the DevOps folks are happy because they don't necessarily have the skills to manage network and they don't necessarily want to spend the time managing networking. They've got their network counterparts who are also happy the NetOps team because they want to control the networking. And now we've got this clean demark where the DevOps folks get the services they need and the NetOps folks get the control and agility they need. So that's a huge value. The next piece of value is distributed security. This is essential I mentioned it earlier, pushing out micro segmentation and distributed firewall basically at the application level, where I create these small segments on an application by application basis. So if a bad actor does penetrate the perimeter firewall they're contained once they get inside. 'Cause the worst thing is a bad actor penetrates perimeter firewall and can go wherever they want in wreak havoc. And so that's why this is so essential. And the next benefit obviously is this unified networking operating model. Having an operating model across switch and server, underlay and overlay, workload agnostic, making the life of the NetOps teams much easier so they can focus their time on really strategy instead of spending an afternoon deploying a single VLAN for example. >> Awesome, and I think also for my stand point I mean perimeter security is pretty much, that out there, I guess the firewall still out there exists but pretty much they're being breached all the time the perimeter. You have to have this new security model. And I think the other thing that you mentioned the separation between DevOps is cool because the infrastructure is code is about making the developers be agile and build security in from day one. So this policy aspect is huge new control plan. I think you guys have a new architecture that enables the security to be handled more flexible. That seems to be the killer feature here. >> If you look at the data processing unit, I think one of the great things about sort of this new architecture it's really the foundation for zero trust. So like you talked about the perimeter is getting breached. And so now each and every compute node has to be protected. And I think that's sort of what you see with the partnership between Pluribus and NVIDIA is the DPU is really the foundation of zero trust and Pluribus is really building on that vision with allowing sort of micro-segmentation and being able to protect each and every compute node as well as the underlying network. >> This is super exciting. This is illustration of how the market's evolving architectures are being reshaped and refactored for cloud scale and all this new goodness with data. So I got to ask how you guys go into market together. Michael, start with you. What's the relationship look like in the go to market with NVIDIA? >> We're super excited about the partnership. Obviously we're here together. We think we've got a really good solution for the market so we're jointly marketing it. Obviously we appreciate that NVIDIA's open that's sort of in our DNA, we're about a open networking. They've got other ISVs who are going to run on BlueField-2. We're probably going to run on other DPUs in the future. But right now we feel like we're partnered with the number one provider of DPUs in the world and super excited about making a splash with it. >> Oh man NVIDIA got the hot product. >> So BlueField-2 as I mentioned was GA last year, we're introducing, well we now also have the converged accelerator. So I talked about artificial intelligence our artificial intelligence software with the BlueField DPU, all of that put together on a converged accelerator. The nice thing there is you can either run those workloads, so if you have an artificial intelligence workload and an infrastructure workload, you can work on them separately on the same platform or you can actually use you can actually run artificial intelligence applications on the BlueField itself. So that's what the converged accelerator really brings to the table. So that's available now. Then we have BlueField-3 which will be available late this year. And I talked about sort of, how much better that next generation of BlueField is in comparison to BlueField-2. So we'll see BlueField-3 shipping later on this year. And then our software stack which I talked about, which is called DOCA. We're on our second version, our DOCA 1.2 we're releasing DOCA 1.3 in about two months from now. And so that's really our open ecosystem framework. So allow you to program the BlueField. So we have all of our acceleration libraries, security libraries, that's all packed into this SDK called DOCA. And it really gives that simplicity to our partners to be able to develop on top of BlueField. So as we add new generations of BlueField, next year we'll have another version and so on and so forth. DOCA is really that unified layer that allows BlueField to be both forwards compatible and backwards compatible. So partners only really have to think about writing to that SDK once. And then it automatically works with future generations of BlueField. So that's sort of the nice thing around DOCA. And then in terms of our go to market model we're working with every major OEM. Later on this year you'll see, major server manufacturers releasing BlueField enabled servers, so more to come. >> Awesome, save money, make it easier, more capabilities, more workload power. This is the future of cloud operations. >> And one thing I'll add is we are, we have a number of customers as you'll hear in the next segment that are already signed up and will be working with us for our early field trial starting late April early May. We are accepting registrations. You can go to www.pluribusnetworks.com/eft. If you're interested in signing up for being part of our field trial and providing feedback on the product >> Awesome innovation and networking. Thanks so much for sharing the news. Really appreciate, thanks so much. In a moment we'll be back to look deeper in the product the integration, security, zero trust use cases. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in enterprise tech coverage. (upbeat music)

>>Okay, let's kick things off. We're here at my capital. One of the CMO of pluribus networks and AMI by Dani VP of networking, marketing developer ecosystem at Nvidia. Great to have you welcome folks. Thank you. Thanks. So let's get into the, the problem situation with cloud unified network. What problems are out there? What challenges do cloud operators have Mike let's get into? >>Yeah, really, you know, the challenges we're looking at are for non hyperscalers that's enterprises, governments, tier two service providers, cloud service providers, and the first mandate for them is to become as agile as a hyperscaler. So they need to be able to deploy services and security policies in seconds. They need to be able to abstract the complexity of the network and define things in software while it's accelerated in hardware. Really ultimately they need a single operating model everywhere. And then the second thing is they need to distribute networking and security services out to the edge of the host. We're seeing a growth in cyber attacks. It's it's not slowing down. It's only getting worse and, you know, solving for this security problem across clouds is absolutely critical. And the way to do it is to move security out to the host. >>Okay. With that goal in mind, what's the pluribus vision. How does this tie together? >>Yeah, so basically what we see is that this demands a new architecture and that new architecture has four tenants. The first tenant is unified and simplified cloud networks. If you look at cloud networks today, there's, there's sort of like discrete bespoke cloud networks, you know, per hypervisor, per private cloud edge cloud public cloud. Each of the public clouds have different networks that needs to be unified. You know, if we want these folks to be able to be agile, they need to be able to issue a single command or instantiate a security policy across all of those locations with one command and not have to go to each one. The second is like I mentioned, distributed security, distributed security without compromise, extended out to the host is absolutely critical. So micro-segmentation and distributed firewalls, but it doesn't stop there. They also need pervasive visibility. You know, it's, it's, it's sort of like with security, you really can't see you can't protect what you can't see. >>So you need visibility everywhere. The problem is visibility to date has been very expensive. Folks have had to basically build a separate overlay network of taps, packet brokers, tap aggregation infrastructure that really needs to be built into this unified network I'm talking about. And the last thing is automation. All of this needs to be SDN enabled. So this is related to my comment about abstraction abstract, the complexity of all these discreet networks, physic whatever's down there in the physical layer. Yeah. I don't want to see it. I want abstract it. I wanted to find things in software, but I do want to leverage the power of hardware to accelerate that. So that's the fourth tenant is SDN automation. >>Mike, we've been talking on the cable a lot about this architectural shift and customers are looking at this. This is a big part of everyone who's looking at cloud operations next gen, how do we get there? How do customers get this vision realized? >>That's a great question. And I appreciate the tee up. I mean, we're, we're here today for that reason. We're introducing two things today. The first is a unified cloud networking vision. And that is a vision of where pluribus is headed with our partners like Nvidia longterm. And that is about deploying a common operating model, SDN enabled SDN, automated hardware, accelerated across all clouds and whether that's underlying overlay switch or server hype, any hypervisor infrastructure containers, any workload doesn't matter. So that's ultimately where we want to get. And that's what we talked about earlier. The first step in that vision is what we call the unified cloud fabric. And this is the next generation of our adaptive cloud fabric. And what's nice about this is we're not starting from scratch. We have an award-winning adaptive cloud fabric product that is deployed globally. And in particular we're very proud of the fact that it's deployed in over a hundred tier one mobile operators as the network fabric for their 4g and 5g virtualized cores. We know how to build carrier grade networking infrastructure. What we're doing now to realize this next generation unified cloud fabric is we're extending from the switch to this Nvidia Bluefield to DPU. We, >>No, there's all that up real quick. That's a good, that's a good prop. That's the blue field and video. >>It's the Nvidia Bluefield two DPU data processing unit. And you know, what we're doing fundamentally is extending our SDN automated fabric, the unified cloud fabric out to the host, but it does take processing power. So we knew that we didn't want to do, we didn't want to implement that running on the CPU, which is what some other companies do because it consumes revenue generating CPU's from the application. So a DPU is a perfect way to implement this. And we knew that Nvidia was the leader with this blue field too. And so that is the first that's, that's the first step in the getting into realizing this vision >>And video has always been powering some great workloads of GPU. Now you've got DP networking, and then video is here. What is the relationship with clothes? How did that come together? Tell us the story. >>Yeah. So, you know, we've been working with pluribus for quite some time. I think the last several months was really when it came to fruition and what pluribus is trying build and what Nvidia has. So we have, you know, this concept of a Bluefield data processing unit, which if you think about it, conceptually does really three things, offload, accelerate an isolate. So offload your workloads from your CPU to your data processing unit infrastructure workloads, that is a accelerate. So there's a bunch of acceleration engine. So you can run infrastructure workloads much faster than you would otherwise, and then isolation. So you have this nice security isolation between the data processing unit and your other CPU environment. And so you can run completely isolated workloads directly on the data processing unit. So we introduced this, you know, a couple of years ago, and with pluribus, you know, we've been talking to the pluribus team for quite some months now. >>And I think really the combination of what pluribus is trying to build and what they've developed around this unified cloud fabric is fits really nicely with the DPU and running that on the DPU and extending it really from your physical switch, all the way to your host environment, specifically on the data processing unit. So if you think about what's happening as you add data processing units to your environment. So every server we believe over time is going to have data processing units. So now you'll have to manage that complexity from the physical network layer to the host layer. And so what pluribus is really trying to do is extending the network fabric from the host, from the switch to the host, and really have that single pane of glass for network operators to be able to configure provision, manage all of the complexity of the network environment. >>So that's really how the partnership truly started. And so it started really with extending the network fabric, and now we're also working with them on security. So, you know, if you sort of take that concept of isolation and security isolation, what pluribus has within their fabric is the concept of micro-segmentation. And so now you can take that extended to the data processing unit and really have isolated micro-segmentation workloads, whether it's bare metal cloud native environments, whether it's virtualized environments, whether it's public cloud, private cloud hybrid cloud. So it really is a magical partnership between the two companies with their unified cloud fabric running on, on the DPU. >>I love about this conversation is it reminds me of when you have these changing markets, the product gets pulled out of the market and, and you guys step up and create these new solutions. And I think this is a great example. So I have to ask you, how do you guys differentiate what sets this apart for customers with what's in it for the, >>Yeah. So I mentioned, you know, three things in terms of the value of what the Bluefield brings, right? There's offloading, accelerating, isolating, that's sort of the key core tenants of Bluefield, so that, you know, if you sort of think about what, what Bluefield, what we've done, you know, in terms of the differentiation, we're really a robust platform for innovation. So we introduced Bluefield to last year, we're introducing Bluefield three, which is our next generation of Bluefields, you know, we'll have five X, the arm compute capacity. It will have 400 gig line rate acceleration for X better crypto acceleration. So it will be remarkably better than the previous generation. And we'll continue to innovate and add, you know, chips to our portfolio every, every 18 months to two years. So that's sort of one of the key areas of differentiation. The other is the, if you look at Nvidia and, and you know, what we're sort of known for is really known for our AI artificial intelligence and our artificial intelligence software, as well as our GPU. >>So you look at artificial intelligence and the combination of artificial intelligence plus data processing. This really creates the faster, more efficient, secure AI systems from, you know, the core of your data center all the way out to the edge. And so with Nvidia, we really have these converged accelerators where we've combined the GPU, which does all your AI processing with your data processing with the DPU. So we have this convergence really nice convergence of, of that area. And I would say the third area is really around our developer environment. So, you know, one of the key, one of our key motivations at Nvidia is really to have our partner ecosystem, embrace our technology and build solutions around our technology. So if you look at what we've done with the DPU, with credit and an SDK, which is an open SDK called Doka, and it's an open SDK for our partners to really build and develop solutions using Bluefield and using all these accelerated libraries that we expose through Doka. And so part of our differentiation is really building this open ecosystem for our partners to take advantage and build solutions around our technology. >>You know, it's exciting is when I hear you talk, it's like you realize that there's no one general purpose network anymore. Everyone has their own super environment Supercloud or these new capabilities. They can really craft their own, I'd say custom environment at scale with easy tools. Right. And it's all kind of, again, this is the new architecture Mike, you were talking about, how does customers run this effectively? Cost-effectively and how do people migrate? >>Yeah, I think that is the key question, right? So we've got this beautiful architecture. You, you know, Amazon nitro is a, is a good example of, of a smart NIC architecture that has been successfully deployed, but enterprises and serve tier two service providers and tier one service providers and governments are not Amazon, right? So they need to migrate there and they need this architecture to be cost-effective. And, and that's, that's super key. I mean, the reality is deep user moving fast, but they're not going to be deployed everywhere on day one. Some servers will ha have DPS right away. Some servers will have deep use in a year or two. And then there are devices that may never have DPS, right? IOT gateways, or legacy servers, even mainframes. So that's the beauty of a solution that creates a fabric across both the switch and the DPU, right? >>And by leveraging the Nvidia Bluefield DPU, what we really like about it is it's open and that drives cost efficiencies. And then, you know, with this, with this, our architectural approach effectively, you get a unified solution across switch and DPU workload independent doesn't matter what hypervisor it is, integrated visibility, integrated security, and that can create tremendous cost efficiencies and really extract a lot of the expense from, from a capital perspective out of the network, as well as from an operational perspective, because now I have an SDN automated solution where I'm literally issuing a command to deploy a network service or to create or deploy our security policy and is deployed everywhere, automatically saving the oper, the network operations team and the security operations team time. >>All right. So let me rewind that because that's super important. Get the unified cloud architecture, I'm the customer, but it's implemented, what's the value again, take, take me through the value to me. I have a unified environment. What's the value. >>Yeah. So I mean, the value is effectively. So there's a few pieces of value. The first piece of value is I'm creating this clean D mark. I'm taking networking to the host. And like I mentioned, we're not running it on the CPU. So in implementations that run networking on the CPU, there's some conflict between the dev ops team who owned the server and the NetApps team who own the network because they're installing software on the, on the CPU stealing cycles from what should be revenue generating CPU's. So now by, by terminating the networking on the DPU, we click create this real clean DMARC. So the dev ops folks are happy because they don't necessarily have the skills to manage network and they don't necessarily want to spend the time managing networking. They've got their network counterparts who are also happy the NetApps team, because they want to control the networking. >>And now we've got this clean DMARC where the dev ops folks get the services they need and the NetApp folks get the control and agility they need. So that's a huge value. The next piece of value is distributed security. This is essential. I mentioned earlier, you know, put pushing out micro-segmentation and distributed firewall, basically at the application level, right, where I create these small, small segments on an application by application basis. So if a bad actor does penetrate the perimeter firewall, they're contained once they get inside. Cause the worst thing is a bad actor penetrates at perimeter firewall, and it can go wherever they want and wreak havoc, right? And so that's why this, this is so essential. And the next benefit obviously is this unified networking operating model, right? Having an operating model, switch and server underlay and overlay, workload agnostic, making the life of the NetApps teams much easier so they can focus their time on really strategy instead of spending an afternoon, deploying a single V LAN for example. >>Awesome. And I think also from my standpoint, I mean, perimeter security is pretty much, I mean, they're out there, it gets the firewall still out there exists, but pretty much they're being breached all the time, the perimeter. So you have to have this new security model. And I think the other thing that you mentioned, the separation between dev ops is cool because the infrastructure is code is about making the developers be agile and build security in from day one. So this policy aspect is, is huge new control points. I think you guys have a new architecture that enables the security to be handled more flexible. Right. That seems to be the killer feature, >>Right? Yeah. If you look at the data processing unit, I think one of the great things about sort of this new architecture, it's really the foundation for zero trust it's. So like you talked about the perimeter is getting breached. And so now each and every compute node has to be protected. And I think that's sort of what you see with the partnership between pluribus and Nvidia is the DPU is really the foundation of zero trust. And pluribus is really building on that vision with allowing sort of micro-segmentation and being able to protect each and every compute node as well as the underlying network. >>And this is an illustration of how the market's evolving architectures are being reshaped and refactored for cloud scale and all this new goodness with data. So I got to ask how you guys go into market together. Michael, start with you. What's the relationship look like in the go to market with an Nvidia? >>Sure. I mean, we're, you know, we're super excited about the partnership. Obviously we're here together. We think we've got a really good solution for the market, so we're jointly marketing it. You know, obviously we appreciate that Nvidia is open that's, that's sort of in our DNA, we're about open networking. They've got other ISV who are gonna run on Bluefield too. We're probably going to run on other DPS in the future, but right now we're we feel like we're partnered with the number one provider of DPS in the world and super excited about making a splash with it >>In video, get the hot product. >>Yeah. So Bluefield too, as I mentioned was GA last year, we're introducing well, we now also have the converged accelerator. So I talked about artificial intelligence or artificial intelligence software with the Bluefield DPU, all of that put together on a converged accelerator. The nice thing there is you can either run those workloads. So if you have an artificial intelligence workload and an infrastructure workload, you can warn them separately on the same platform or you can actually use, you can actually run artificial intelligence applications on the Bluefield itself. So that's what the converged accelerator really brings the table. So that's available now. Then we have Bluefield three, which will be available late this year. And I talked about sort of, you know, how much better that next generation of Bluefield is in comparison to Bluefield two. So we will see Bluefield three shipping later on this year, and then our software stack, which I talked about, which is called Doka we're on our second version are DACA one dot two. >>We're releasing Doka one dot three in about two months from now. And so that's really our open ecosystem framework. So allow you to program the Bluefields. So we have all of our acceleration libraries, security libraries, that's all packed into this SDK called Doka. And it really gives that simplicity to our partners to be able to develop on top of Bluefield. So as we add new generations of Bluefield, you know, next, next year, we'll have, you know, another version and so on and so forth. Doka is really that unified unified layer that allows Bluefield to be both forwards compatible and backwards compatible. So partners only really have to think about writing to that SDK once and then it automatically works with future generations of Bluefields. So that's sort of the nice thing around, around Doka. And then in terms of our go to market model, we're working with every, every major OEM. So later on this year, you'll see, you know, major server manufacturers releasing Bluefield enabled servers, so more to come >>Save money, make it easier, more capabilities, more workload power. This is the future of, of cloud operations. Yeah. >>And one thing I'll add is we are, we have a number of customers as you'll hear in the next segment that are already signed up and we'll be working with us for our early field trial starting late April early may. We are accepting registrations. You can go to www.pluribusnetworks.com/e F T if you're interested in signing up for being part of our field trial and, and providing feedback on the product, >>Awesome innovation and network. Thanks so much for sharing the news. Really appreciate it. Thanks so much. Okay. In a moment, we'll be back to the deeper in the product, the integration security zero trust use cases. You're watching the cube, the leader in enterprise tech coverage.

(atmospheric music) >> Welcome to theCUBE Coverage of Data Citizens 2022 Collibra's Customer event. My name is Dave Vellante. With us is Kirk Haslbeck, who's the Vice President of Data Quality of Collibra. Kirk, good to see you, welcome. >> Thanks for having me, Dave. Excited to be here. >> You bet. Okay, we're going to discuss data quality, observability. It's a hot trend right now. You founded a data quality company, OwlDQ, and it was acquired by Collibra last year. Congratulations. And now you lead data quality at Collibra. So we're hearing a lot about data quality right now. Why is it such a priority? Take us through your thoughts on that. >> Yeah, absolutely. It's definitely exciting times for data quality which you're right, has been around for a long time. So why now? And why is it so much more exciting than it used to be? I think it's a bit stale, but we all know that companies use more data than ever before, and the variety has changed and the volume has grown. And while I think that remains true there are a couple other hidden factors at play that everyone's so interested in as to why this is becoming so important now. And I guess you could kind of break this down simply and think about if Dave you and I were going to build a new healthcare application and monitor the heartbeat of individuals, imagine if we get that wrong, what the ramifications could be, what those incidents would look like. Or maybe better yet, we try to build a new trading algorithm with a crossover strategy where the 50 day crosses the 10 day average. And imagine if the data underlying the inputs to that is incorrect. We will probably have major financial ramifications in that sense. So, kind of starts there, where everybody's realizing that we're all data companies, and if we are using bad data we're likely making incorrect business decisions. But I think there's kind of two other things at play. I bought a car not too long ago and my dad called and said, "How many cylinders does it have?" And I realized in that moment, I might have failed him cause I didn't know. And I used to ask those types of questions about any lock breaks and cylinders, and if it's manual or automatic. And I realized, I now just buy a car that I hope works. And it's so complicated with all the computer chips. I really don't know that much about it. And that's what's happening with data. We're just loading so much of it. And it's so complex that the way companies consume them in the IT function is that they bring in a lot of data and then they syndicate it out to the business. And it turns out that the individuals loading and consuming all of this data for the company actually may not know that much about the data itself and that's not even their job anymore. So, we'll talk more about that in a minute, but that's really what's setting the foreground for this observability play and why everybody's so interested. It's because we're becoming less close to the intricacies of the data and we just expect it to always be there and be correct. >> You know, the other thing too about data quality, and for years we did the MIT, CDO, IQ event. We didn't do it last year at COVID, messed everything up. But the observation I would make there, your thoughts is, data quality used to be information quality, used to be this back office function, and then it became sort of front office with financial services, and government and healthcare, these highly regulated industries. And then the whole chief data officer thing happened and people were realizing, well they sort of flipped the bit from sort of a data as a risk to data as an asset. And now as we say, we're going to talk about observability. And so it's really become front and center, just the whole quality issue because data's so fundamental, hasn't it? >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, let's imagine we pull up our phones right now and I go to my favorite stock ticker app, and I check out the Nasdaq market cap. I really have no idea if that's the correct number. I know it's a number, it looks large, it's in a numeric field. And that's kind of what's going on. There's so many numbers and they're coming from all of these different sources, and data providers, and they're getting consumed and passed along. But there isn't really a way to tactically put controls on every number and metric across every field we plan to monitor, but with the scale that we've achieved in early days, even before Collibra. And what's been so exciting is, we have these types of observation techniques, these data monitors that can actually track past performance of every field at scale. And why that's so interesting, and why I think the CDO is listening right intently nowadays to this topic is, so maybe we could surface all of these problems with the right solution of data observability and with the right scale, and then just be alerted on breaking trends. So we're sort of shifting away from this world of must write a condition and then when that condition breaks that was always known as a break record. But what about breaking trends and root cause analysis? And is it possible to do that with less human intervention? And so I think most people are seeing now that it's going to have to be a software tool and a computer system. It's not ever going to be based on one or two domain experts anymore. >> So how does data observability relate to data quality? Are they sort of two sides of the same coin? Are they cousins? What's your perspective on that? >> Yeah, it's super interesting. It's an emerging market. So the language is changing, a lot of the topic and areas changing. The way that I like to say it or break it down because the lingo is constantly moving, as a target on the space is really breaking records versus breaking trends. And I could write a condition when this thing happens it's wrong, and when it doesn't it's correct. Or I could look for a trend and I'll give you a good example. Everybody's talking about fresh data and stale data, and why would that matter? Well, if your data never arrived, or only part of it arrived, or didn't arrive on time, it's likely stale, and there will not be a condition that you could write that would show you all the good and the bads. That was kind of your traditional approach of data quality break records. But your modern day approach is you lost a significant portion of your data, or it did not arrive on time to make that decision accurately on time. And that's a hidden concern. Some people call this freshness, we call it stale data. But it all points to the same idea of the thing that you're observing may not be a data quality condition anymore. It may be a breakdown in the data pipeline. And with thousands of data pipelines in play for every company out there, there's more than a couple of these happening every day. >> So what's the Collibra angle on all this stuff? Made the acquisition, you got data quality, observability coming together. You guys have a lot of expertise in this area, but you hear providence of data. You just talked about stale data, the whole trend toward realtime. How is Collibra approaching the problem and what's unique about your approach? >> Well I think where we're fortunate is with our background. Myself and team, we sort of lived this problem for a long time in the Wall Street days about a decade ago. And we saw it from many different angles. And what we came up with, before it was called data observability or reliability, was basically the underpinnings of that. So we're a little bit ahead of the curve there when most people evaluate our solution. It's more advanced than some of the observation techniques that currently exist. But we've also always covered data quality and we believe that people want to know more, they need more insights. And they want to see break records and breaking trends together, so they can correlate the root cause. And we hear that all the time. "I have so many things going wrong just show me the big picture. Help me find the thing that if I were to fix it today would make the most impact." So we're really focused on root cause analysis, business impact, connecting it with lineage and catalog metadata. And as that grows you can actually achieve total data governance. At this point with the acquisition of what was a Lineage company years ago, and then my company OwlDQ, now Collibra Data Quality. Collibra may be the best positioned for total data governance and intelligence in the space. >> Well, you mentioned financial services a couple of times and some examples, remember the flash crash in 2010. Nobody had any idea what that was. They would just say, "Oh, it's a glitch." So they didn't understand the root cause of it. So this is a really interesting topic to me. So we know at Data Citizens 22 that you're announcing, you got to announce new products, right? It is your yearly event. What's new? Give us a sense as to what products are coming out but specifically around data quality and observability. >> Absolutely. There's this, there's always a next thing on the forefront. And the one right now is these hyperscalers in the cloud. So you have databases like Snowflake and BigQuery, and Databricks, Delta Lake and SQL Pushdown. And ultimately what that means is a lot of people are storing in loading data even faster in a SaaS like model. And we've started to hook into these databases, and while we've always worked with the same databases in the past they're supported today. We're doing something called Native Database pushdown, where the entire compute and data activity happens in the database. And why that is so interesting and powerful now? Is everyone's concerned with something called Egress. Did my data that I've spent all this time and money with my security team securing ever leave my hands, did it ever leave my secure VPC as they call it? And with these native integrations that we're building and about to unveil here as kind of a sneak peak for next week at Data Citizens, we're now doing all compute and data operations in databases like Snowflake. And what that means is with no install and no configuration you could log into the Collibra data quality app and have all of your data quality running inside the database that you've probably already picked as your go forward team selection secured database of choice. So we're really excited about that. And I think if you look at the whole landscape of network cost, egress cost, data storage and compute, what people are realizing is it's extremely efficient to do it in the way that we're about to release here next week. >> So this is interesting because what you just described, you mentioned Snowflake, you mentioned Google, oh actually you mentioned yeah, Databricks. You know, Snowflake has the data cloud. If you put everything in the data cloud, okay, you're cool. But then Google's got the open data cloud. If you heard, Google next. And now Databricks doesn't call it the data cloud, but they have like the open source data cloud. So you have all these different approaches and there's really no way, up until now I'm hearing, to really understand the relationships between all those and have confidence across, it's like yamarket AMI, you should just be a note on the mesh. I don't care if it's a data warehouse or a data lake, or where it comes from, but it's a point on that mesh and I need tooling to be able to have confidence that my data is governed and has the proper lineage, providence. And that's what you're bringing to the table. Is that right? Did I get that right? >> Yeah, that's right. And it's, for us, it's not that we haven't been working with those great cloud databases, but it's the fact that we can send them the instructions now we can send them the operating ability to crunch all of the calculations, the governance, the quality, and get the answers. And what that's doing, it's basically zero network cost, zero egress cost, zero latency of time. And so when you were to log into BigQuery tomorrow using our tool, or say Snowflake for example, you have instant data quality metrics, instant profiling, instant lineage in access, privacy controls, things of that nature that just become less onerous. What we're seeing is there's so much technology out there just like all of the major brands that you mentioned but how do we make it easier? The future is about less clicks, faster time to value, faster scale, and eventually lower cost. And we think that this positions us to be the leader there. >> I love this example because, we've got talks about well the cloud guys you're going to own the world. And of course now we're seeing that the ecosystem is finding so much white space to add value connect across cloud. Sometimes we call it super cloud and so, or inter clouding. Alright, Kirk, give us your final thoughts on the trends that we've talked about and data Citizens 22. >> Absolutely. Well I think, one big trend is discovery and classification. Seeing that across the board, people used to know it was a zip code and nowadays with the amount of data that's out there they want to know where everything is, where their sensitive data is, if it's redundant, tell me everything inside of three to five seconds. And with that comes, they want to know in all of these hyperscale databases how fast they can get controls and insights out of their tools. So I think we're going to see more one click solutions, more SaaS based solutions, and solutions that hopefully prove faster time to value on all of these modern cloud platforms. >> Excellent. All right, Kirk Haslbeck, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE and previewing Data Citizens 22. Appreciate it. >> Thanks for having me, Dave. >> You're welcome. All right. And thank you for watching. Keep it right there for more coverage from theCUBE. (atmospheric music)

>>Everyone wants a cloud operating model. Since the introduction of the modern cloud. Last decade, the entire technology landscape has changed. We've learned a lot from the hyperscalers, especially from AWS. Now, one thing is certain in the technology business. It's so competitive. Then if a faster, better, cheaper idea comes along, the industry will move quickly to adopt it. They'll add their unique value and then they'll bring solutions to the market. And that's precisely what's happening throughout the technology industry because of cloud. And one of the best examples is Amazon's nitro. That's AWS has custom built hypervisor that delivers on the promise of more efficiently using resources and expanding things like processor, optionality for customers. It's a secret weapon for Amazon. As, as we, as we wrote last year, every infrastructure company needs something like nitro to compete. Why do we say this? Well, Wiki Bon our research arm estimates that nearly 30% of CPU cores in the data center are wasted. >>They're doing work that they weren't designed to do well, specifically offloading networking, storage, and security tasks. So if you can eliminate that waste, you can recapture dollars that drop right to the bottom line. That's why every company needs a nitro like solution. As a result of these developments, customers are rethinking networks and how they utilize precious compute resources. They can't, or won't put everything into the public cloud for many reasons. That's one of the tailwinds for tier two cloud service providers and why they're growing so fast. They give options to customers that don't want to keep investing in building out their own data centers, and they don't want to migrate all their workloads to the public cloud. So these providers and on-prem customers, they want to be more like hyperscalers, right? They want to be more agile and they do that. They're distributing, networking and security functions and pushing them closer to the applications. >>Now, at the same time, they're unifying their view of the network. So it can be less fragmented, manage more efficiently with more automation and better visibility. How are they doing this? Well, that's what we're going to talk about today. Welcome to changing the game for cloud networking made possible by pluribus networks. My name is Dave Vellante and today on this special cube presentation, John furrier, and I are going to explore these issues in detail. We'll dig into new solutions being created by pluribus and Nvidia to specifically address offloading, wasted resources, accelerating performance, isolating data, and making networks more secure all while unifying the network experience. We're going to start on the west coast and our Palo Alto studios, where John will talk to Mike of pluribus and AMI, but Donnie of Nvidia, then we'll bring on Alessandra Bobby airy of pluribus and Pete Lummus from Nvidia to take a deeper dive into the technology. And then we're gonna bring it back here to our east coast studio and get the independent analyst perspective from Bob Liberte of the enterprise strategy group. We hope you enjoy the program. Okay, let's do this over to John >>Okay. Let's kick things off. We're here at my cafe. One of the TMO and pluribus networks and NAMI by Dani VP of networking, marketing, and developer ecosystem at Nvidia. Great to have you welcome folks. >>Thank you. Thanks. >>So let's get into the, the problem situation with cloud unified network. What problems are out there? What challenges do cloud operators have Mike let's get into it. >>Yeah, it really, you know, the challenges we're looking at are for non hyperscalers that's enterprises, governments, um, tier two service providers, cloud service providers, and the first mandate for them is to become as agile as a hyperscaler. So they need to be able to deploy services and security policies. And second, they need to be able to abstract the complexity of the network and define things in software while it's accelerated in hardware. Um, really ultimately they need a single operating model everywhere. And then the second thing is they need to distribute networking and security services out to the edge of the host. Um, we're seeing a growth in cyber attacks. Um, it's, it's not slowing down. It's only getting worse and, you know, solving for this security problem across clouds is absolutely critical. And the way to do it is to move security out to the host. >>Okay. With that goal in mind, what's the pluribus vision. How does this tie together? >>Yeah. So, um, basically what we see is, uh, that this demands a new architecture and that new architecture has four tenants. The first tenant is unified and simplified cloud networks. If you look at cloud networks today, there's, there's sort of like discreet bespoke cloud networks, you know, per hypervisor, per private cloud edge cloud public cloud. Each of the public clouds have different networks that needs to be unified. You know, if we want these folks to be able to be agile, they need to be able to issue a single command or instantiate a security policy across all those locations with one command and not have to go to each one. The second is like I mentioned, distributed security, um, distributed security without compromise, extended out to the host is absolutely critical. So micro-segmentation and distributed firewalls, but it doesn't stop there. They also need pervasive visibility. >>You know, it's, it's, it's sort of like with security, you really can't see you can't protect what you can't see. So you need visibility everywhere. The problem is visibility to date has been very expensive. Folks have had to basically build a separate overlay network of taps, packet brokers, tap aggregation infrastructure that really needs to be built into this unified network I'm talking about. And the last thing is automation. All of this needs to be SDN enabled. So this is related to my comment about abstraction abstract, the complexity of all of these discreet networks, physic whatever's down there in the physical layer. Yeah. I don't want to see it. I want to abstract it. I wanted to find things in software, but I do want to leverage the power of hardware to accelerate that. So that's the fourth tenant is SDN automation. >>Mike, we've been talking on the cube a lot about this architectural shift and customers are looking at this. This is a big part of everyone who's looking at cloud operations next gen, how do we get there? How do customers get this vision realized? >>That's a great question. And I appreciate the tee up. I mean, we're, we're here today for that reason. We're introducing two things today. Um, the first is a unified cloud networking vision, and that is a vision of where pluribus is headed with our partners like Nvidia longterm. Um, and that is about, uh, deploying a common operating model, SDN enabled SDN, automated hardware, accelerated across all clouds. Um, and whether that's underlying overlay switch or server, um, hype, any hypervisor infrastructure containers, any workload doesn't matter. So that's ultimately where we want to get. And that's what we talked about earlier. Um, the first step in that vision is what we call the unified cloud fabric. And this is the next generation of our adaptive cloud fabric. Um, and what's nice about this is we're not starting from scratch. We have a, a, an award-winning adaptive cloud fabric product that is deployed globally. Um, and in particular, uh, we're very proud of the fact that it's deployed in over a hundred tier one mobile operators as the network fabric for their 4g and 5g virtualized cores. We know how to build carrier grade, uh, networking infrastructure, what we're doing now, um, to realize this next generation unified cloud fabric is we're extending from the switch to this Nvidia Bluefield to DPU. We know there's a, >>Hold that up real quick. That's a good, that's a good prop. That's the blue field and video. >>It's the Nvidia Bluefield two DPU data processing unit. And, um, uh, you know, what we're doing, uh, fundamentally is extending our SDN automated fabric, the unified cloud fabric out to the host, but it does take processing power. So we knew that we didn't want to do, we didn't want to implement that running on the CPU, which is what some other companies do because it consumes revenue generating CPU's from the application. So a DPU is a perfect way to implement this. And we knew that Nvidia was the leader with this blue field too. And so that is the first that's, that's the first step in the getting into realizing this vision. >>I mean, Nvidia has always been powering some great workloads of GPU. Now you've got DPU networking and then video is here. What is the relationship with clothes? How did that come together? Tell us the story. >>Yeah. So, you know, we've been working with pluribus for quite some time. I think the last several months was really when it came to fruition and, uh, what pluribus is trying to build and what Nvidia has. So we have, you know, this concept of a Bluefield data processing unit, which if you think about it, conceptually does really three things, offload, accelerate an isolate. So offload your workloads from your CPU to your data processing unit infrastructure workloads that is, uh, accelerate. So there's a bunch of acceleration engines. So you can run infrastructure workloads much faster than you would otherwise, and then isolation. So you have this nice security isolation between the data processing unit and your other CPU environment. And so you can run completely isolated workloads directly on the data processing unit. So we introduced this, you know, a couple of years ago, and with pluribus, you know, we've been talking to the pluribus team for quite some months now. >>And I think really the combination of what pluribus is trying to build and what they've developed around this unified cloud fabric, uh, is fits really nicely with the DPU and running that on the DPU and extending it really from your physical switch, all the way to your host environment, specifically on the data processing unit. So if you think about what's happening as you add data processing units to your environment. So every server we believe over time is going to have data processing units. So now you'll have to manage that complexity from the physical network layer to the host layer. And so what pluribus is really trying to do is extending the network fabric from the host, from the switch to the host, and really have that single pane of glass for network operators to be able to configure provision, manage all of the complexity of the network environment. >>So that's really how the partnership truly started. And so it started really with extending the network fabric, and now we're also working with them on security. So, you know, if you sort of take that concept of isolation and security isolation, what pluribus has within their fabric is the concept of micro-segmentation. And so now you can take that extended to the data processing unit and really have, um, isolated micro-segmentation workloads, whether it's bare metal cloud native environments, whether it's virtualized environments, whether it's public cloud, private cloud hybrid cloud. So it really is a magical partnership between the two companies with their unified cloud fabric running on, on the DPU. >>You know, what I love about this conversation is it reminds me of when you have these changing markets, the product gets pulled out of the market and, and you guys step up and create these new solutions. And I think this is a great example. So I have to ask you, how do you guys differentiate what sets this apart for customers with what's in it for the customer? >>Yeah. So I mentioned, you know, three things in terms of the value of what the Bluefield brings, right? There's offloading, accelerating, isolating, that's sort of the key core tenants of Bluefield. Um, so that, you know, if you sort of think about what, um, what Bluefields, what we've done, you know, in terms of the differentiation, we're really a robust platform for innovation. So we introduced Bluefield to, uh, last year, we're introducing Bluefield three, which is our next generation of Bluefields, you know, we'll have five X, the arm compute capacity. It will have 400 gig line rate acceleration, four X better crypto acceleration. So it will be remarkably better than the previous generation. And we'll continue to innovate and add, uh, chips to our portfolio every, every 18 months to two years. Um, so that's sort of one of the key areas of differentiation. The other is the, if you look at Nvidia and, and you know, what we're sort of known for is really known for our AI artificial intelligence and our artificial intelligence software, as well as our GPU. >>So you look at artificial intelligence and the combination of artificial intelligence plus data processing. This really creates the, you know, faster, more efficient, secure AI systems from the core of your data center, all the way out to the edge. And so with Nvidia, we really have these converged accelerators where we've combined the GPU, which does all your AI processing with your data processing with the DPU. So we have this convergence really nice convergence of that area. And I would say the third area is really around our developer environment. So, you know, one of the key, one of our key motivations at Nvidia is really to have our partner ecosystem, embrace our technology and build solutions around our technology. So if you look at what we've done with the DPU, with credit and an SDK, which is an open SDK called Doka, and it's an open SDK for our partners to really build and develop solutions using Bluefield and using all these accelerated libraries that we expose through Doka. And so part of our differentiation is really building this open ecosystem for our partners to take advantage and build solutions around our technology. >>You know, what's exciting is when I hear you talk, it's like you realize that there's no one general purpose network anymore. Everyone has their own super environment Supercloud or these new capabilities. They can really craft their own, I'd say, custom environment at scale with easy tools. Right. And it's all kind of, again, this is the new architecture Mike, you were talking about, how does customers run this effectively? Cost-effectively and how do people migrate? >>Yeah, I, I think that is the key question, right? So we've got this beautiful architecture. You, you know, Amazon nitro is a, is a good example of, of a smart NIC architecture that has been successfully deployed, but enterprises and serve tier two service providers and tier one service providers and governments are not Amazon, right? So they need to migrate there and they need this architecture to be cost-effective. And, and that's, that's super key. I mean, the reality is deep user moving fast, but they're not going to be, um, deployed everywhere on day one. Some servers will have DPS right away, some servers will have use and a year or two. And then there are devices that may never have DPS, right. IOT gateways, or legacy servers, even mainframes. Um, so that's the beauty of a solution that creates a fabric across both the switch and the DPU, right. >>Um, and by leveraging the Nvidia Bluefield DPU, what we really like about it is it's open. Um, and that drives, uh, cost efficiencies. And then, um, uh, you know, with this, with this, our architectural approach effectively, you get a unified solution across switch and DPU workload independent doesn't matter what hypervisor it is, integrated visibility, integrated security, and that can, uh, create tremendous cost efficiencies and, and really extract a lot of the expense from, from a capital perspective out of the network, as well as from an operational perspective, because now I have an SDN automated solution where I'm literally issuing a command to deploy a network service or to create or deploy our security policy and is deployed everywhere, automatically saving the oppor, the network operations team and the security operations team time. >>All right. So let me rewind that because that's super important. Get the unified cloud architecture, I'm the customer guy, but it's implemented, what's the value again, take, take me through the value to me. I have a unified environment. What's the value. >>Yeah. So I mean, the value is effectively, um, that, so there's a few pieces of value. The first piece of value is, um, I'm creating this clean D mark. I'm taking networking to the host. And like I mentioned, we're not running it on the CPU. So in implementations that run networking on the CPU, there's some conflict between the dev ops team who owned the server and the NetApps team who own the network because they're installing software on the, on the CPU stealing cycles from what should be revenue generating. Uh CPU's. So now by, by terminating the networking on the DPU, we click create this real clean DMARC. So the dev ops folks are happy because they don't necessarily have the skills to manage network and they don't necessarily want to spend the time managing networking. They've got their network counterparts who are also happy the NetApps team, because they want to control the networking. >>And now we've got this clean DMARC where the DevOps folks get the services they need and the NetApp folks get the control and agility they need. So that's a huge value. Um, the next piece of value is distributed security. This is essential. I mentioned earlier, you know, put pushing out micro-segmentation and distributed firewall, basically at the application level, right, where I create these small, small segments on an by application basis. So if a bad actor does penetrate the perimeter firewall, they're contained once they get inside. Cause the worst thing is a bad actor, penetrates a perimeter firewall and can go wherever they want and wreak havoc. Right? And so that's why this, this is so essential. Um, and the next benefit obviously is this unified networking operating model, right? Having, uh, uh, uh, an operating model across switch and server underlay and overlay, workload agnostic, making the life of the NetApps teams much easier so they can focus their time on really strategy instead of spending an afternoon, deploying a single villain, for example. >>Awesome. And I think also from my standpoint, I mean, perimeter security is pretty much, I mean, they're out there, it gets the firewall still out there exists, but pretty much they're being breached all the time, the perimeter. So you have to have this new security model. And I think the other thing that you mentioned, the separation between dev ops is cool because the infrastructure is code is about making the developers be agile and build security in from day one. So this policy aspect is, is huge. Um, new control points. I think you guys have a new architecture that enables the security to be handled more flexible. >>Right. >>That seems to be the killer feature here, >>Right? Yeah. If you look at the data processing unit, I think one of the great things about sort of this new architecture, it's really the foundation for zero trust it's. So like you talked about the perimeter is getting breached. And so now each and every compute node has to be protected. And I think that's sort of what you see with the partnership between pluribus and Nvidia is the DPU is really the foundation of zero trust. And pluribus is really building on that vision with, uh, allowing sort of micro-segmentation and being able to protect each and every compute node as well as the underlying network. >>This is super exciting. This is an illustration of how the market's evolving architectures are being reshaped and refactored for cloud scale and all this new goodness with data. So I gotta ask how you guys go into market together. Michael, start with you. What's the relationship look like in the go to market with an Nvidia? >>Sure. Um, I mean, we're, you know, we're super excited about the partnership, obviously we're here together. Um, we think we've got a really good solution for the market, so we're jointly marketing it. Um, uh, you know, obviously we appreciate that Nvidia is open. Um, that's, that's sort of in our DNA, we're about open networking. They've got other ISV who are gonna run on Bluefield too. We're probably going to run on other DPS in the, in the future, but right now, um, we're, we feel like we're partnered with the number one, uh, provider of DPS in the world and, uh, super excited about, uh, making a splash with it. >>I'm in get the hot product. >>Yeah. So Bluefield too, as I mentioned was GA last year, we're introducing, uh, well, we now also have the converged accelerator. So I talked about artificial intelligence or artificial intelligence with the Bluefield DPU, all of that put together on a converged accelerator. The nice thing there is you can either run those workloads. So if you have an artificial intelligence workload and an infrastructure workload, you can warn them separately on the same platform or you can actually use, uh, you can actually run artificial intelligence applications on the Bluefield itself. So that's what the converged accelerator really brings to the table. Uh, so that's available now. Then we have Bluefield three, which will be available late this year. And I talked about sort of, you know, uh, how much better that next generation of Bluefield is in comparison to Bluefield two. So we will see Bluefield three shipping later on this year, and then our software stack, which I talked about, which is called Doka we're on our second version are Doka one dot two. >>We're releasing Doka one dot three, uh, in about two months from now. And so that's really our open ecosystem framework. So allow you to program the Bluefields. So we have all of our acceleration libraries, um, security libraries, that's all packed into this STK called Doka. And it really gives that simplicity to our partners to be able to develop on top of Bluefield. So as we add new generations of Bluefield, you know, next, next year, we'll have, you know, another version and so on and so forth Doka is really that unified unified layer that allows, um, Bluefield to be both forwards compatible and backwards compatible. So partners only really have to think about writing to that SDK once, and then it automatically works with future generations of Bluefields. So that's sort of the nice thing around, um, around Doka. And then in terms of our go to market model, we're working with every, every major OEM. So, uh, later on this year, you'll see, you know, major server manufacturers, uh, releasing Bluefield enabled servers. So, um, more to come >>Awesome, save money, make it easier, more capabilities, more workload power. This is the future of, of cloud operations. >>Yeah. And, and, and, uh, one thing I'll add is, um, we are, um, we have a number of customers as you'll hear in the next segment, um, that are already signed up and we'll be working with us for our, uh, early field trial starting late April early may. Um, we are accepting registrations. You can go to www.pluribusnetworks.com/e F T a. If you're interested in signing up for, um, uh, being part of our field trial and providing feedback on the product, >>Awesome innovation and network. Thanks so much for sharing the news. Really appreciate it. Thanks so much. Okay. In a moment, we'll be back to look deeper in the product, the integration security zero trust use cases. You're watching the cube, the leader in enterprise tech coverage, >>Cloud networking is complex and fragmented slowing down your business. How can you simplify and unify your cloud networks to increase agility and business velocity? >>Pluribus unified cloud networking provides a unified simplify and agile network fabric across all clouds. It brings the simplicity of a public cloud operation model to private clouds, dramatically reducing complexity and improving agility, availability, and security. Now enterprises and service providers can increase their business philosophy and delight customers in the distributed multi-cloud era. We achieve this with a new approach to cloud networking, pluribus unified cloud fabric. This open vendor, independent network fabric, unifies, networking, and security across distributed clouds. The first step is extending the fabric to servers equipped with data processing units, unifying the fabric across switches and servers, and it doesn't stop there. The fabric is unified across underlay and overlay networks and across all workloads and virtualization environments. The unified cloud fabric is optimized for seamless migration to this new distributed architecture, leveraging the power of the DPU for application level micro-segmentation distributed fireball and encryption while still supporting those servers and devices that are not equipped with a DPU. Ultimately the unified cloud fabric extends seamlessly across distributed clouds, including central regional at edge private clouds and public clouds. The unified cloud fabric is a comprehensive network solution. That includes everything you need for clouds, networking built in SDN automation, distributed security without compromises, pervasive wire speed, visibility and application insight available on your choice of open networking switches and DP use all at the lowest total cost of ownership. The end result is a dramatically simplified unified cloud networking architecture that unifies your distributed clouds and frees your business to move at cloud speed, >>To learn more, visit www.pluribusnetworks.com. >>Okay. We're back I'm John ferry with the cube, and we're going to go deeper into a deep dive into unified cloud networking solution from Clovis and Nvidia. And we'll examine some of the use cases with Alessandra Burberry, VP of product management and pullovers networks and Pete Bloomberg who's director of technical marketing and video remotely guys. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. >>Yeah. >>So deep dive, let's get into the what and how Alexandra we heard earlier about the pluribus Nvidia partnership and the solution you're working together on what is it? >>Yeah. First let's talk about the water. What are we really integrating with the Nvidia Bluefield, the DPO technology, uh, plugable says, um, uh, there's been shipping, uh, in, uh, in volume, uh, in multiple mission critical networks. So this advisor one network operating systems, it runs today on a merchant silicone switches and effectively it's a standard open network operating system for data center. Um, and the novelty about this system that integrates a distributed control plane for, at water made effective in SDN overlay. This automation is a completely open and interoperable and extensible to other type of clouds is not enclosed them. And this is actually what we're now porting to the Nvidia DPO. >>Awesome. So how does it integrate into Nvidia hardware and specifically how has pluribus integrating its software with the Nvidia hardware? >>Yeah, I think, uh, we leverage some of the interesting properties of the Bluefield, the DPO hardware, which allows actually to integrate, uh, um, uh, our software, our network operating system in a manner which is completely isolated and independent from the guest operating system. So the first byproduct of this approach is that whatever we do at the network level on the DPU card that is completely agnostic to the hypervisor layer or OSTP layer running on, uh, on the host even more, um, uh, we can also independently manage this network, know that the switch on a Neek effectively, um, uh, managed completely independently from the host. You don't have to go through the network operating system, running on x86 to control this network node. So you throw yet the experience effectively of a top of rack for virtual machine or a top of rack for, uh, Kubernetes bots, where instead of, uh, um, if you allow me with the analogy instead of connecting a server knee directly to a switchboard, now you're connecting a VM virtual interface to a virtual interface on the switch on an ache. >>And, uh, also as part of this integration, we, uh, put a lot of effort, a lot of emphasis in, uh, accelerating the entire, uh, data plane for networking and security. So we are taking advantage of the DACA, uh, Nvidia DACA API to program the accelerators. And these accomplished two things with that. Number one, uh, you, uh, have much greater performance, much better performance. They're running the same network services on an x86 CPU. And second, this gives you the ability to free up, I would say around 20, 25% of the server capacity to be devoted either to, uh, additional workloads to run your cloud applications, or perhaps you can actually shrink the power footprint and compute footprint of your data center by 20%, if you want to run the same number of compute workloads. So great efficiencies in the overall approach, >>And this is completely independent of the server CPU, right? >>Absolutely. There is zero code from running on the x86, and this is what we think this enables a very clean demarcation between computer and network. >>So Pete, I gotta get, I gotta get you in here. We heard that, uh, the DPU is enabled cleaner separation of dev ops and net ops. Can you explain why that's important because everyone's talking DevSecOps right now, you've got net ops, net, net sec ops, this separation. Why is this clean separation important? >>Yeah, I think it's a, you know, it's a pragmatic solution in my opinion. Um, you know, we wish the world was all kind of rainbows and unicorns, but it's a little, a little messier than that. And I think a lot of the dev ops stuff and that, uh, mentality and philosophy, there's a natural fit there. Right? You have applications running on servers. So you're talking about developers with those applications integrating with the operators of those servers. Well, the network has always been this other thing and the network operators have always had a very different approach to things than compute operators. And, you know, I think that we, we in the networking industry have gotten closer together, but there's still a gap there's still some distance. And I think in that distance, isn't going to be closed. And so, you know, again, it comes down to pragmatism and I think, you know, one of my favorite phrases is look good fences, make good neighbors. And that's what this is. >>Yeah. That's a great point because dev ops has become kind of the calling card for cloud, right. But dev ops is as simply infrastructure as code and infrastructure is networking, right? So if infrastructure is code, you know, you're talking about, you know, that part of the stack under the covers under the hood, if you will, this is super important distinction. And this is where the innovation is. Can you elaborate on how you see that? Because this is really where the action is right now. >>Yeah, exactly. And I think that's where, um, one from, from the policy, the security that the zero trust aspect of this, right? If you get it wrong on that network side, all of a sudden you, you can totally open up that those capabilities. And so security is part of that. But the other part is thinking about this at scale, right? So we're taking one top of rack switch and adding, you know, up to 48 servers per rack. And so that ability to automate, orchestrate and manage at scale becomes absolutely critical. >>I'll Sandra, this is really the why we're talking about here, and this is scale. And again, getting it right. If you don't get it right, you're going to be really kind of up, you know what you know, so this is a huge deal. Networking matters, security matters, automation matters, dev ops, net ops, all coming together, clean separation, um, help us understand how this joint solution with Nvidia fits into the pluribus unified cloud networking vision, because this is what people are talking about and working on right now. >>Yeah, absolutely. So I think here with this solution, we're attacking two major problems in cloud networking. One is, uh, operation of, uh, cloud networking. And the second is a distributing security services in the cloud infrastructure. First, let me talk about the first water. We really unifying. If we're unifying something, something must be at least fragmented or this jointed and the, what is this joint that is actually the network in the cloud. If you look holistically, how networking is deployed in the cloud, you have your physical fabric infrastructure, right? Your switches and routers, you'll build your IP clause fabric leaf in spine typologies. This is actually a well understood the problem. I, I would say, um, there are multiple vendors, uh, uh, with, uh, um, uh, let's say similar technologies, um, very well standardized, whether you will understood, um, and almost a commodity, I would say building an IP fabric these days, but this is not the place where you deploy most of your services in the cloud, particularly from a security standpoint, two services are actually now moved into the compute layer where you actually were called builders, have to instrument the, a separate, uh, network virtualization layer, where they deploy segmentation and security closer to the workloads. >>And this is where the complication arise. These high value part of the cloud network is where you have a plethora of options that they don't talk to each other. And they are very dependent on the kind of hypervisor or compute solution you choose. Um, for example, the networking API to be between an GSXI environment or an hyper V or a Zen are completely disjointed. You have multiple orchestration layers. And when, and then when you throw in also Kubernetes in this, in this, in this type of architecture, uh, you're introducing yet another level of networking. And when Kubernetes runs on top of VMs, which is a prevalent approach, you actually just stacking up multiple networks on the compute layer that they eventually run on the physical fabric infrastructure. Those are all ships in the nights effectively, right? They operate as completely disjointed. And we're trying to attack this problem first with the notion of a unified fabric, which is independent from any workloads, whether it's this fabric spans on a switch, which can be con connected to a bare metal workload, or can span all the way inside the DPU, uh, where, um, you have, uh, your multi hypervisor compute environment. >>It's one API, one common network control plane, and one common set of segmentation services for the network. That's probably the number one, >>You know, it's interesting you, man, I hear you talking, I hear one network month, different operating models reminds me of the old serverless days. You know, there's still servers, but they call it serverless. Is there going to be a term network list? Because at the end of the day, it should be one network, not multiple operating models. This, this is a problem that you guys are working on. Is that right? I mean, I'm not, I'm just joking server listen network list, but the idea is it should be one thing. >>Yeah, it's effectively. What we're trying to do is we are trying to recompose this fragmentation in terms of network operation, across physical networking and server networking server networking is where the majority of the problems are because of the, uh, as much as you have standardized the ways of building, uh, physical networks and cloud fabrics with IP protocols and internet, you don't have that kind of, uh, uh, sort of, uh, um, um, uh, operational efficiency, uh, at the server layer. And, uh, this is what we're trying to attack first. The, with this technology, the second aspect we're trying to attack is are we distribute the security services throughout the infrastructure, more efficiently, whether it's micro-segmentation is a stateful firewall services, or even encryption. Those are all capabilities enabled by the blue field, uh, uh, the Butte technology and, uh, uh, we can actually integrate those capabilities directly into the nettle Fabrica, uh, limiting dramatically, at least for east-west traffic, the sprawl of, uh, security appliances, whether virtual or physical, that is typically the way the people today, uh, segment and secure the traffic in the cloud. >>Awesome. Pete, all kidding aside about network lists and serverless kind of fun, fun play on words there, the network is one thing it's basically distributed computing, right? So I love to get your thoughts about this distributed security with zero trust as the driver for this architecture you guys are doing. Can you share in more detail the depth of why DPU based approach is better than alternatives? >>Yeah, I think what's, what's beautiful and kind of what the DPU brings. That's new to this model is a completely isolated compute environment inside. So, you know, it's the, uh, yo dog, I heard you like a server, so I put a server inside your server. Uh, and so we provide, uh, you know, armed CPU's memory and network accelerators inside, and that is completely isolated from the host. So the server, the, the actual x86 host just thinks it has a regular Nick in there, but you actually have this full control plane thing. It's just like taking your top of rack switch and shoving it inside of your compute node. And so you have not only the separation, um, within the data plane, but you have this complete control plane separation. So you have this element that the network team can now control and manage, but we're taking all of the functions we used to do at the top of rack switch, and we're just shooting them now. >>And, you know, as time has gone on we've, we've struggled to put more and more and more into that network edge. And the reality is the network edge is the compute layer, not the top of rack switch layer. And so that provides this phenomenal enforcement point for security and policy. And I think outside of today's solutions around virtual firewalls, um, the other option is centralized appliances. And even if you can get one that can scale large enough, the question is, can you afford it? And so what we end up doing is we kind of hope that of aliens good enough, or we hope that if the excellent tunnel is good enough and we can actually apply more advanced techniques there because we can't physically, you know, financially afford that appliance to see all of the traffic. And now that we have a distributed model with this accelerator, we could do it. >>So what's the what's in it for the customer. I real quick, cause I think this is interesting point. You mentioned policy, everyone in networking knows policy is just a great thing and it adds, you hear it being talked about up the stack as well. When you start getting to orchestrating microservices and whatnot, all that good stuff going on there, containers and whatnot and modern applications. What's the benefit to the customers with this approach? Because what I heard was more scale, more edge deployment, flexibility, relative to security policies and application enablement. I mean, is that what what's the customer get out of this architecture? What's the enablement. >>It comes down to, uh, taking again the capabilities that were in that top of rack switch and asserting them down. So that makes simplicity smaller blast radiuses for failure, smaller failure domains, maintenance on the networks, and the systems become easier. Your ability to integrate across workloads becomes infinitely easier. Um, and again, you know, we always want to kind of separate each one of those layers. So just as in say, a VX land network, my leaf and spine don't have to be tightly coupled together. I can now do this at a different layer. And so you can run a DPU with any networking in the core there. And so you get this extreme flexibility. You can start small, you can scale large. Um, you know, to me, the, the possibilities are endless. Yes, >>It's a great security control plan. Really flexibility is key. And, and also being situationally aware of any kind of threats or new vectors or whatever's happening in the network. Alessandra, this is huge upside, right? You've already identified some successes with some customers on your early field trials. What are they doing and why are they attracted to the solution? >>Yeah, I think the response from customers has been, uh, the most, uh, encouraging and, uh, exciting, uh, for, uh, for us to, uh, to sort of continue and work and develop this product. And we have actually learned a lot in the process. Um, we talked to tier two tier three cloud providers. Uh, we talked to, uh, SP um, software Tyco type of networks, uh, as well as a large enterprise customers, um, in, uh, one particular case. Um, uh, one, uh, I think, um, let me, let me call out a couple of examples here, just to give you a flavor. Uh, there is a service provider, a cloud provider, uh, in Asia who is actually managing a cloud, uh, where they are offering services based on multiple hypervisors. They are native services based on Zen, but they also are on ramp into the cloud, uh, workloads based on, uh, ESI and, uh, uh, and KVM, depending on what the customer picks from the piece on the menu. >>And they have the problem of now orchestrating through their orchestrate or integrating with the Zen center with vSphere, uh, with, uh, open stack to coordinate these multiple environments and in the process to provide security, they actually deploy virtual appliances everywhere, which has a lot of costs, complication, and eats up into the server CPU. The problem is that they saw in this technology, they call it actually game changing is actually to remove all this complexity of in a single network and distribute the micro-segmentation service directly into the fabric. And overall, they're hoping to get out of it, uh, uh, tremendous, uh, um, opics, uh, benefit and overall, um, uh, operational simplification for the cloud infrastructure. That's one potent a use case. Uh, another, uh, large enterprise customer global enterprise customer, uh, is running, uh, both ESI and hyper V in that environment. And they don't have a solution to do micro-segmentation consistently across hypervisors. >>So again, micro-segmentation is a huge driver security looks like it's a recurring theme, uh, talking to most of these customers and in the Tyco space, um, uh, we're working with a few types of customers on the CFT program, uh, where the main goal is actually to our Monet's network operation. They typically handle all the VNF search with their own homegrown DPDK stack. This is overly complex. It is frankly also as low and inefficient, and then they have a physical network to manage the, the idea of having again, one network, uh, to coordinate the provision in our cloud services between the, the take of VNF, uh, and, uh, the rest of the infrastructure, uh, is extremely powerful on top of the offloading capability of the, by the bluefin DPOs. Those are just some examples. >>That was a great use case, a lot more potential. I see that with the unified cloud networking, great stuff, feed, shout out to you guys at Nvidia had been following your success for a long time and continuing to innovate as cloud scales and pluribus here with the unified networking, kind of bring it to the next level. Great stuff. Great to have you guys on. And again, software keeps driving the innovation again, networking is just a part of it, and it's the key solution. So I got to ask both of you to wrap this up. How can cloud operators who are interested in, in this, uh, new architecture and solution, uh, learn more because this is an architectural shift. People are working on this problem. They're trying to think about multiple clouds of trying to think about unification around the network and giving more security, more flexibility, uh, to their teams. How can people learn more? >>Yeah, so, uh, all Sandra and I have a talk at the upcoming Nvidia GTC conference. Um, so that's the week of March 21st through 24th. Um, you can go and register for free and video.com/at GTC. Um, you can also watch recorded sessions if you ended up watching us on YouTube a little bit after the fact. Um, and we're going to dive a little bit more into the specifics and the details and what we're providing in the solution. >>Alexandra, how can people learn more? >>Yeah, absolutely. People can go to the pluribus, a website, www boost networks.com/eft, and they can fill up the form and, uh, they will contact durables to either know more or to know more and actually to sign up for the actual early field trial program, which starts at the end of April. >>Okay. Well, we'll leave it there. Thanks. You both for joining. Appreciate it up next. You're going to hear an independent analyst perspective and review some of the research from the enterprise strategy group ESG. I'm John ferry with the >>Cube. Thanks for watching. >>Okay. We've heard from the folks at networks and Nvidia about their effort to transform cloud networking and unify bespoke infrastructure. Now let's get the perspective from an independent analyst and to do so. We welcome in ESG, senior analysts, Bob LA Liberte, Bob. Good to see you. Thanks for coming into our east coast studios. >>Oh, thanks for having me. It's great to be >>Here. Yeah. So this, this idea of unified cloud networking approach, how serious is it? What's what's driving it. >>Yeah, there's certainly a lot of drivers behind it, but probably the first and foremost is the fact that application environments are becoming a lot more distributed, right? So the, it pendulum tends to swing back and forth. And we're definitely on one that's swinging from consolidated to distributed. And so applications are being deployed in multiple private data centers, multiple public cloud locations, edge locations. And as a result of that, what you're seeing is a lot of complexity. So organizations are having to deal with this highly disparate environment. They have to secure it. They have to ensure connectivity to it and all that's driving up complexity. In fact, when we asked in one of our last surveys and last year about network complexity, more than half 54% came out and said, Hey, our network environment is now either more or significantly more complex than it used to be. >>And as a result of that, what you're seeing is it's really impacting agility. So everyone's moving to these modern application environments, distributing them across areas so they can improve agility yet it's creating more complexity. So a little bit counter to the fact and, you know, really counter to their overarching digital transformation initiatives. From what we've seen, you know, nine out of 10 organizations today are either beginning in process or have a mature digital transformation process or initiative, but their top goals, when you look at them, it probably shouldn't be a surprise. The number one goal is driving operational efficiency. So it makes sense. I've distributed my environment to create agility, but I've created a lot of complexity. So now I need these tools that are going to help me drive operational efficiency, drive better experience. >>I mean, I love how you bring in the data yesterday. Does a great job with that. Uh, questions is, is it about just unifying existing networks or is there sort of a need to rethink kind of a do-over network, how networks are built? >>Yeah, that's a, that's a really good point because certainly unifying networks helps right. Driving any kind of operational efficiency helps. But in this particular case, because we've made the transition to new application architectures and the impact that's having as well, it's really about changing and bringing in new frameworks and new network architectures to accommodate those new application architectures. And by that, what I'm talking about is the fact that these new modern application architectures, microservices, containers are driving a lot more east west traffic. So in the old days, it used to be easier in north south coming out of the server, one application per server, things like that. Right now you've got hundreds, if not thousands of microservices communicating with each other users communicating to them. So there's a lot more traffic and a lot of it's taking place within the servers themselves. The other issue that you starting to see as well from that security perspective, when we were all consolidated, we had those perimeter based legacy, you know, castle and moat security architectures, but that doesn't work anymore when the applications aren't in the castle, right. >>When everything's spread out that that no longer happens. So we're absolutely seeing, um, organizations trying to, trying to make a shift. And, and I think much, like if you think about the shift that we're seeing with all the remote workers and the sassy framework to enable a secure framework there, this it's almost the same thing. We're seeing this distributed services framework come up to support the applications better within the data centers, within the cloud data centers, so that you can drive that security closer to those applications and make sure they're, they're fully protected. Uh, and that's really driving a lot of the, you know, the zero trust stuff you hear, right? So never trust, always verify, making sure that everything is, is, is really secure micro-segmentation is another big area. So ensuring that these applications, when they're connected to each other, they're, they're fully segmented out. And that's again, because if someone does get a breach, if they are in your data center, you want to limit the blast radius, you want to limit the amount of damage that's done. So that by doing that, it really makes it a lot harder for them to see everything that's in there. >>You know, you mentioned zero trust. It used to be a buzzword, and now it's like become a mandate. And I love the mode analogy. You know, you build a moat to protect the queen and the castle, the Queens left the castles, it's just distributed. So how should we think about this, this pluribus and Nvidia solution. There's a spectrum, help us understand that you've got appliances, you've got pure software solutions. You've got what pluribus is doing with Nvidia, help us understand that. >>Yeah, absolutely. I think as organizations recognize the need to distribute their services to closer to the applications, they're trying different models. So from a legacy approach, you know, from a security perspective, they've got these centralized firewalls that they're deploying within their data centers. The hard part for that is if you want all this traffic to be secured, you're actually sending it out of the server up through the rack, usually to in different location in the data center and back. So with the need for agility, with the need for performance, right, that adds a lot of latency. Plus when you start needing to scale, that means adding more and more network connections, more and more appliances. So it can get very costly as well as impacting the performance. The other way that organizations are seeking to solve this problem is by taking the software itself and deploying it on the servers. Okay. So that's a, it's a great approach, right? It brings it really close to the applications, but the things you start running into there, there's a couple of things. One is that you start seeing that the DevOps team start taking on that networking and security responsibility, which they >>Don't want to >>Do, they don't want to do right. And the operations teams loses a little bit of visibility into that. Um, plus when you load the software onto the server, you're taking up precious CPU cycles. So if you're really wanting your applications to perform at an optimized state, having additional software on there, isn't going to, isn't going to do it. So, you know, when we think about all those types of things, right, and certainly the other side effects of that is the impact of the performance, but there's also a cost. So if you have to buy more servers because your CPU's are being utilized, right, and you have hundreds or thousands of servers, right, those costs are going to add up. So what, what Nvidia and pluribus have done by working together is to be able to take some of those services and be able to deploy them onto a smart Nick, right? >>To be able to deploy the DPU based smart SMARTNICK into the servers themselves. And then pluribus has come in and said, we're going to unify create that unified fabric across the networking space, into those networking services all the way down to the server. So the benefits of having that are pretty clear in that you're offloading that capability from the server. So your CPU's are optimized. You're saving a lot of money. You're not having to go outside of the server and go to a different rack somewhere else in the data center. So your performance is going to be optimized as well. You're not going to incur any latency hit for every trip round trip to the, to the firewall and back. So I think all those things are really important. Plus the fact that you're going to see from a, an organizational aspect, we talked about the dev ops and net ops teams. The network operations teams now can work with the security teams to establish the security policies and the networking policies. So that they've dev ops teams. Don't have to worry about that. So essentially they just create the guardrails and let the dev op team run. Cause that's what they want. They want that agility and speed. >>Yeah. Your point about CPU cycles is key. I mean, it's estimated that 25 to 30% of CPU cycles in the data center are wasted. The cores are wasted doing storage offload or, or networking or security offload. And, you know, I've said many times everybody needs a nitro like Amazon nugget, but you can't go, you can only buy Amazon nitro if you go into AWS. Right. Everybody needs a nitro. So is that how we should think about this? >>Yeah. That's a great analogy to think about this. Um, and I think I would take it a step further because it's, it's almost the opposite end of the spectrum because pluribus and video are doing this in a very open way. And so pluribus has always been a proponent of open networking. And so what they're trying to do is extend that now to these distributed services. So leverage working with Nvidia, who's also open as well, being able to bring that to bear so that organizations can not only take advantage of these distributed services, but also that unified networking fabric, that unified cloud fabric across that environment from the server across the switches, the other key piece of what pluribus is doing, because they've been doing this for a while now, and they've been doing it with the older application environments and the older server environments, they're able to provide that unified networking experience across a host of different types of servers and platforms. So you can have not only the modern application supported, but also the legacy environments, um, you know, bare metal. You could go any type of virtualization, you can run containers, et cetera. So a wide gambit of different technologies hosting those applications supported by a unified cloud fabric from pluribus. >>So what does that mean for the customer? I don't have to rip and replace my whole infrastructure, right? >>Yeah. Well, think what it does for, again, from that operational efficiency, when you're going from a legacy environment to that modern environment, it helps with the migration helps you accelerate that migration because you're not switching different management systems to accomplish that. You've got the same unified networking fabric that you've been working with to enable you to run your legacy as well as transfer over to those modern applications. Okay. >>So your people are comfortable with the skillsets, et cetera. All right. I'll give you the last word. Give us the bottom line here. >>So yeah, I think obviously with all the modern applications that are coming out, the distributed application environments, it's really posing a lot of risk on these organizations to be able to get not only security, but also visibility into those environments. And so organizations have to find solutions. As I said, at the beginning, they're looking to drive operational efficiency. So getting operational efficiency from a unified cloud networking solution, that it goes from the server across the servers to multiple different environments, right in different cloud environments is certainly going to help organizations drive that operational efficiency. It's going to help them save money for visibility, for security and even open networking. So a great opportunity for organizations, especially large enterprises, cloud providers who are trying to build that hyperscaler like environment. You mentioned the nitro card, right? This is a great way to do it with an open solution. >>Bob, thanks so much for, for coming in and sharing your insights. Appreciate it. >>You're welcome. Thanks. >>Thanks for watching the program today. Remember all these videos are available on demand@thekey.net. You can check out all the news from today@siliconangle.com and of course, pluribus networks.com many thanks diplomas for making this program possible and sponsoring the cube. This is Dave Volante. Thanks for watching. Be well, we'll see you next time.

(Techno music plays in intro) >> We're here with theCUBE covering Commvault Connections 21. And we're going to look at the data protection space and how cloud computing has advanced the way we think about backup, recovery and protecting our most critical data. Ranga Rajagopalan who is the Vice President of products at Commvault, and Stephen Orban who's the General Manager of AWS Marketplace & Control Services. Gents! Welcome to theCUBE. Good to see you. >> Thank you, always a pleasure to see you Dave. >> Dave, thanks for having us. Great to be here. >> You're very welcome. Stephen, let's start with you. Look, the cloud has become a staple of digital infrastructure. I don't know where we'd be right now without being able to access enterprise services, IT services remotely, Um, but specifically, how are customers looking at backup and recovery in the cloud? Is it a kind of a replacement for existing strategies? Is it another layer of protection? How are they thinking about that? >> Yeah. Great question, Dave. And again, thanks. Thanks for having me. And I think, you know, look. If you look back to 15 years ago, when the founders of AWS had the hypothesis that many enterprises, governments, and developers were going to want access to on demand, pay as you go, IT resources in the cloud. None of us would have been able to predict that it would have matured and, um, you know become the staple that it has today over the last 15 years. But the reality is that a lot of these are enterprise customers. Many of whom have been doing their own IT infrastructure for the last 10, 20 or or multiple decades do have to kind of figure out how they deal with it. The change management of moving to the cloud, and while a lot of our customers will initially come to us because they're looking to save money or costs. Almost all of them decide to stay and go big because of the speed at which they're able to innovate on behalf of their customers. And when it comes to storage and backup, that just plays right into where they're headed and there's a variety of different techniques that customers use. Whether it be, you know, a lift and shift for a particular set of applications. Or a data center or where it, where they do very much look at how can they replace the backup and recovery that they have on premises in the cloud using solutions like what we're partnering with Commvault to do. Or completely re-imagining their architecture for net new developments that they can really move quickly for, for their customers and, and completely developing something brand new, where it is really a, um, you know a brand new replacement and innovation for, for, for what they've done in the past. >> Great. Thank you, Stephen. Ranga, I want to ask you about the D word, digital. Look, if you're not a digital business today, you're basically out of business. So my question to you Ranga is, is how have you seen customers change the way they think about data protection during what I call the forced March to digital over the last 18, 19 months? Are customers thinking about data protection differently today? >> Definitely Dave, and and thank you for having me and Stephen pleasure to join you on this CUBE interview. First, going back to Stephen's comments, can't agree more. Almost every business that we talk with today has a cloud first strategy, a cloud transmission mandate. And, you know, the reality is back to your digital comment. There are many different paths to the hybrid micro cloud. And different customers. You know, there are different parts of the journey. So as Stephen was saying, most often customers, at least from a data protection perspective. Start the conversation their thinking, hey, I have all these tapes, can I start using cloud as my air gap, long-term retention target. And before they realize they start moving their workloads into the cloud, and none of the backup and recovery facilities are going to change. So you need to continue protecting the cloud, which is where the cloud meta data protection comes in. And then they start innovating around DR Can I use cloud as my DR sites so that, you know, I don't need to meet in another site. So this is all around us, cloud transmissions, all around us. And, and the real essence of this partnership between AWS and Commvault is essentially to drive, and simplify all the paths to the cloud Regardless of whether you're going to use it as a storage target or, you know, your production data center or your DR. Disaster Recovery site. >> Yeah. So really, it's about providing that optionality for customers. I talked to a lot of customers and said, hey, our business resilience strategy was really too focused on DR. I've talked to all the customers at the other end of the spectrum said, we didn't even have a DR strategy. Now we're using the cloud for that. So it's a, it's really all over the map and you want that optionality. So Stephen, >> (Ranga cuts in) >> Go ahead, please. >> And sorry. Ransomware plays a big role in many of these considerations as well, right? Like, it's unfortunately not a question of whether you're going to be hit by ransomware. It's almost become like, what do you do when you're hit by ransomware? And the ability to use the cloud scale to immediately bring up the resources. Use the cloud backers has become a very popular choice simply because of the speed with which you can bring the business back to normal operations. The agility and the power that cloud brings to the table. >> Yeah. Ransomware is scary. You don't, you don't even need a high school degree diploma to be a ransomware-ist. You could just go on the dark web and buy ransomware as a service and do bad things. And hopefully you'll end up in jail. Stephen, we know about the success of the AWS Marketplace. You guys are partnering here. I'm interested in how that partnership, you know, kind of where it started and how it's evolving. >> Yeah. And happy to highlight on that. So look, when we, when we started AWS or when the founders of AWS started AWS, as I said, 15 years ago. We realized very early on that while we were going to be able to provide a number of tools for customers to have on demand access to compute storage, networking databases, that many particularly, enterprise and government government customers still use a wide range of tools and solutions from hundreds, if not in some cases, thousands of different partners. I mean, I talked to enterprises who who literally used thousands of of different vendors to help them deliver those solutions for their customers. So almost 10 years ago, we're almost at our 10 year anniversary for AWS Marketplace. We launched the first instantiation of AWS Marketplace, which allowed builders and customers to find, try, buy, and then deploy third-party software solutions running on Amazon Machine Instances, also known as AMI's. Natively, right in their AWS and cloud accounts to compliment what they were doing in the cloud. And over the last, nearly 10 years, we've evolved quite a bit. To the point where we support software in multiple different packaging types. Whether it be Amazon Machine Instances, containers, machine learning models, and of course, SAS and the rise of software as a service, so customers don't have to manage the software themselves. But we also support a data products through the AWS data exchange and professional services for customers who want to get services to help them integrate the software into their environments. And we now do that across a wide range of procurement options. So what used to be pay as you go Amazon Machine Instances now includes multiple different ways to contract directly. The customer can do that directly with the vendor, with their channel partner or using kind of our, our public e-commerce capabilities. And we're super excited, um, over the last couple of months, we've been partnering with Commvault to get their industry leading backup and recovery solutions listed on AWS Marketplace. Which is available for our collective customers now. So not only do they have access to Commvault's awesome solutions to help them protect against ransomware, as we talked about and, and to manage their backup and recovery environments. But they can find and deploy that directly in one click right into their AWS accounts and consolidate their, their billing relationship right on the AWS invoice. And it's been awesome to work with with Ranga and the, and the product teams at Commvault to really expose those capabilities where Commvault's using a lot of different AWS services to, to provide a really great native experience for our collective customers as they migrate to the cloud. >> Yeah. The Marketplace has been amazing. We've watched it evolve over the past decade and it's just, it's a key characteristic of cloud. Everybody has a cloud today, right? Ah, we're a cloud too, but Marketplace is unique in, in, in that it's the power of the ecosystem versus the resources of one. And Ranga, I wonder if from your perspective, if you could talk about the partnership with AWS from your view, and and specifically you've got some hard news. Would, if you could, talk about that as well. >> Absolutely. So the partnership has been extending for more than 12 years, right? So AWS and Commvault have been bringing together solutions that help customers solve the data management challenges and everything that we've been doing has been driven by the customer demand that we see, right. Customers are moving their workloads to the cloud. They are finding new ways of deploying the workloads and protecting them. You know, earlier we introduced cloud native integration with the EBS AVI's which has driven almost 70% performance improvements in backup and restore. When you look at huge customers like Coca-Cola, who have standardized on AWS and Commvault, that is the scale that they want to operate on. They manage around one through 3,000 snapshots, 1200 easy, two instances across six regions, but with just one resource dedicated for the data management strategy, right? So that's where the real built-in integration comes into play. And we've been extending it to make use of the cloud efficiencies like power management and auto-scale, and so on. Another aspect is our commitment to a radically simple customer experience. And that's, you know, I'm sure Stephen would agree. It's a big mantra at AWS as well. That's really, together, the customer demand that's brought us together to introduce combo into the AWS Marketplace, exactly the way Stephen described it. Now the hot announcement is calmer, backup and recovery is available in AWS Marketplace. So the exact four steps that Stephen mentioned: find, try, buy, and deploy everything simplified to the Marketplace so that our AWS customers can start using our more backup software in less than 20 minutes. A 60 day trial version is included in the product through Marketplace. And, you know, it's a single click buy. We use the cloud formation templates to deploy. So it becomes a super simple approach to protect the AWS workloads. And we protect a lot of them starting from EC2, RDS DynamoDB, DocumentDB, you know, the, the containers, the list just keeps going on. So it becomes a very natural extension for our customers to make it super simple, to start using Commvault data protection for the AWS workloads. >> Well, the Commvault stack is very robust. You have an extremely mature stack. I want to, I'm curious as to how this sort of came about? I mean, it had to be customer driven, I'm sure. When your customers say, hey, we're moving to the cloud, we had a lot of workloads in the cloud. We're a Commvault customer, that intersection between Commvault and AWS customer. So, so again, I presume this was customer driven, but maybe you can give us a little insight and add some color to that, Ranga. >> Every everything, you know, in this collaboration has been customer driven. We were earlier talking about the multiple paths to cloud and a very good example, and Stephen might probably add more color from his own experience at Dow Jones, but I I'll, I'll bring it to reference Parsons. Who's, you know, civil engineering leader. They started with the cloud first mandate saying, we need to start moving all our backups to the cloud, but we averted that bad actors might find it easy to go and access the backups. AWS and Commvault came together with AWS security features and Commvault brought in its own authorization controls. And now we are moved more than 14 petabytes of backup data into the cloud, and it's sort of as that, not even the backup administrators can go and patch the backups without multiple levels of authorization, right? So the customer needs, whether it is from a security perspective, performance perspective, or in this case from a simplicity perspective is really what is driving us and, and the need came exactly like that. There are many customers who have now standardized on AWS, they want to find everything related to this Marketplace. They want to use their existing, you know, the AWS contracts and also bring data strategy as part of that. So that, that's the real driver behind this. Stephen and I were hoping that we could actually announce some of the customers that have actively started using it. You know, many notable customers have been behind this innovation. And Stephen I don't know if you wanted to add more to that. >> I would just, I would just add Dave, you know, like if I look back before I joined AWS seven years ago, I was the CIO at Dow Jones. And I was leading a, a fairly big cloud migration there over a number of years. And one of the impetuses for us moving to the cloud in the first place was when Hurricane Sandy hit, we had a real disaster recovery scenario in one of our New Jersey data centers. And we had to act pretty quickly. Commvault was, was part of that solution. And I remember very clearly, even back then, back in 2013, there being options available to help us accelerate our move to the cloud. And, and just to reiterate some of the stuff that Ranga was talking about, you know, Commvault's done a great job over the last, more than a decade. Taking features from things like EBS, and S3, and TC2 and some of our networking capabilities and embedding them directly into their services so that customers are able to, you know, more quickly move their backup and recovery workloads to the cloud. So each and every one of those features was, is a result of, I'm sure, Commvault working backwards from their customer needs just as we do at AWS. And we're super excited to take that to the next level, to give customers the option to then also buy that right on their AWS invoice on AWS Marketplace. >> Yeah. I mean, we're going to have to leave it there. Stephen you've mentioned this several times, there's sort of the early days of AWS. We went back then we were talking about gigabytes and terabytes, and now we're talking about petabytes and beyond. Guys thanks so much. We really appreciate your time and sharing the news with us. >> Dave, thanks for having us. >> All right, keep it right there more from Commvault Connections 21, you're watching theCUBE.

>> (soft upbeat music) >> Announcer: From around the globe, it's the cube with digital coverage of Ansible Fest 2020, brought to you by RedHat. >> Hello, welcome to the cubes coverage of Ansible Fest 2020. We're not in person, we're virtual. I'm John Furrier , your host of theCube. We've got a great power panel here of RedHat engineers. We have Brad Thorton, Senior Principle Software Engineer for Ansible networking. Adam Miller, Senior Principle Software Engineer for Security and Jill Rouleau, who's the Senior Software Engineer for Ansible Cloud. Thanks for joining me today. Appreciate it. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks. >> Good to be here. >> We're not in person this year because of COVID, a lot going on but still a lot of great news coming out of Ansible Fest this year. Last year, you guys launched a lot since last year. It's been awesome. Launched the new platform. The automation platform, grown the collections, certified collections community from five supported platforms to over 50, launched a lot of automation services catalog. Brad let's start with you. Why are customers successful with Ansible in networking? >> Why are customers successful with Ansible in networking? Well, let's take a step back to a bit of classic network engineering, right? Lots of CLI interaction with the terminal, a real opportunity for human error there. Managing thousands of devices from the CLI becomes very difficult. I think one of the reasons why Ansible has done well in the networking space and why a lot of network engineers find it very easy to use is because you can still see an attack at the CLI. But what we have the ability to do is pull information from the same COI that you were using manually, and showed that as structured data and then let you return that structured data and push it back to the configuration. So what you get when you're using Ansible is a way to programmatically interface and do configuration management across your entire fleet. It brings consistency and stability, and speed really to network configuration management. >> You know, one of the big hottest areas is, you know, I always ask the folks in the cloud what's next after cloud and pretty much unanimously it's edge, and edge is super important around automation, Brad. What's your thoughts on, as people start thinking about, okay, I need to have edge devices. How does automation play into that? And cause networking, edge it's kind of hand in hand there. So what's your thought on that? >> Yeah, for sure. It really depends on what infrastructure you have at the edge. You might be deploying servers at the edge. You may be administering IOT devices and really how you're directing that traffic either into edge compute or back to your data center. I think one of the places Ansible is going to be really critical is administering the network devices along that path from the edge, from IOT back to the data center, or to the cloud. >> Jill, when you have a Cloud, what's your thoughts on that? Because when you think about Cloud and Multicloud, that's coming around the horizon, you're looking at kind of the operational model. We talked about this a lot last year around having Cloud ops on premises and in the Cloud. What should customers think about when they look at the engineering challenges and the development challenges around Cloud? >> So cloud gets used for a lot of different things, right? But if we step back Cloud just means any sort of distributed applications, whether it's on prem in your own data center, on the edge, in a public hosted environment, and automation is critical for making those things work, when you have these complex applications that are distributed across, whether it's a rack, a data center or globally. You need a tool that can help you make sense of all of that. You've got to... We can't manage things just with, Oh, everything is on one box anymore. Cloud really just means that things have been exploded out and broken up into a bunch of different pieces. And there's now a lot more architectural complexity, no matter where you're running that. And so I think if you step back and look at it from that perspective, you can actually apply a lot of the same approaches and philosophies to these new challenges as they come up without having to reinvent the wheel of how you think about these applications. Just because you're putting them in a new environment, like at the edge or in a public Cloud or on a new, private on premise solution. >> It's interesting, you know, I've been really loving the cloud native action lately, especially with COVID, we're seeing a lot of more modern apps come out of that. If I could follow up there, how do you guys look at tools like Terraform and how does Ansible compare to that? Because you guys are very popular in the cloud configuration, you look at cloud native, Jill, your thoughts. >> Yeah. So Terraform and tools like that. Things like cloud formation or heat in the OpenStack world, they do really, really great at things like deploying your apps and setting up your stack and getting them out there. And they're really focused on that problem space, which is a hard problem space that they do a fantastic job with where Ansible tends to come in and a tool like Ansible is what do you do on day two with that application? How do you run an update? How do you manage it in the longterm of something like 60% of the workloads or cloud spend at least on AWS is still just EC2 instances. What do you do with all of those EC2 instances once you've deployed them, once they're in a stack, whether you're managing it, whatever tool you're managing it with, Ansible is a phenomenal way of getting in there and saying, okay, I have these instances, I know about them, but maybe I just need to connect out and run an update or add a package or reconfigure a service that's running on there. And I think you can glue these things together and use Ansible with these other stack deployment based tools really, really effectively. >> Real quick, just a quick followup on that. what's the big pain point for developers right now when they're looking at these tools? Because they see the path, what are some of the pain points that they're living right now that they're trying to overcome? >> I think one of the problems kind of coincidentally is we have so many tools. We're in kind of a tool explosion in the cloud space, right now. You could piece together as as many tools to manage your stack, as you have components in your stack and just making sense of what that landscape looks like right now and figuring out what are the right tools for the job I'm trying to do, that can be flexible and that are not going to box me into having to spend half of my engineering time, just managing my tools and making sense of all of that is a significant effort and job on its own. >> Yes, too many may add, would choke in years ago in the big data search, the tools, the tool train, one we call the tool shed, after a while, you don't know what's in the back, what you're using every day. People get comfortable with the right tools, but the platform becomes a big part of that thinking holistically as a system. And Adam, this comes back to security. There's more tools in the security space than ever before. Talking about tool challenges, security is the biggest tool shed everyone's got tools they'd buy everything, but you got to look at, what a platform looks like and developers just want to have the truth. And when you look at the configuration management piece of it, security is critical. What's your thoughts on the source of truth when it comes into play for these security appliances? >> So these are... Source of truth piece is kind of an interesting one because this is going to be very dependent on the organization. What type of brownfield environment they've developed, what type of things that they rely on, and what types of data they store there. So we have the ability for various sources of truth to come in for your inventory source and the types of information you store with that. This could be tagged information on a series of cloud instances or series about resources. This could be something you store in a network management tool or a CMDB. This could even be something that you put into a privilege access management system, such as, CyberArk or hashivault. Like those are the things and because of Ansible flexibility and because of the way that everything is put together in a pluggable nature, we have the capability to actually bring in all of these components from anywhere in a brownfield environment, in a preexisting infrastructure, as well as new decisions that are being made for the enterprise as I move forward. And, and we can bring all that together and be that infrastructure glue, be that automation component that can tie all these disjoint loosely coupled, or complete disc couple pieces, together. And that's kind of part of that, that security posture, remediation various levels of introspection into your environment, these types of things, as we go forward, and that's kind of what we're focusing on doing with this. >> What kind of data is stored in the source of truth? >> I mean... So what type of data? This could be credential. It could be single use credential access. This could be your inventory data for your systems, what target systems you're trying to do. It could be, various attributes of different systems to be able to classify them ,and codify them in different ways. It's kind of kind of depending, be configuration data. You know, we have the ability with some of the work that Brad and his team are doing to actually take unstructured data, make it structured, bullet into whatever your chosen source of truth is, store it, and then utilize that to, kind of decompose it into different vendors, specific syntax representations and those types of things. So we have a lot of different capability there as well. >> Brad, you were mentioned, do you have a talk on parsing, can you elaborate on that? And why should network operators care about that? >> Yeah, welcome to 2020. We're still parsing network configuration and operational state. This is an interesting one. If you had asked me years ago, did I think that we would be investing development time into parsing with Ansible network configurations? I would have said, "Well, I certainly hope not. "I hope programmability of network devices and the vendors "really have their API's in order." But I think what we're seeing is network containers are still comfortable with the command line. They're still very familiar with the command line and when it comes time to do operational state assessment and health assessment of your network, engineers are comfortable going to the command line and running show commands. So really what we're trying to do in the parsing space is not author brand new parking and parsing engine ourselves, but really leverage a lot of the open source tools that are already out there bringing them into Ansible, so network engineers can now harvest the critical information from usher operational state commands on their network devices. And then once they've gotten to the structure data, things get really interesting because now you can do entrance criteria checks prior to doing configuration changes, right? So if you want to ensure a network device has a very particular operational state, all the BGP neighbors are, for example before pushing configuration changes, what we have the ability to do now is actually parse the command that you would have run from the command line. Use that within a decision tree in your Ansible playbook, and only move forward when the configuration changes. If the box is healthy. And then once the configuration changes are made at the end, you run those same health checks to ensure that you're in a speck can do a steady state and are production ready. So parsing is the mechanism. It's the data that you get from the parsing that's so critical. >> If I had to ask you real quick, just while it's on my mind. You know, people want to know about automation. It's top of mind use case. What are some of these things around automation and configuration parsing, whether it's parsing to other configuration manager, what are the big challenges around automation? Because it's the Holy grail. Everyone wants it now. What are the couches? where's the hotspots that needs to be jumped on and managed carefully? Or the easiest low hanging fruit? >> Well, there's really two pieces to it, right? There's the technology. And then there's the culture. And, and we talk really about a culture of automation, bringing the team with you as you move into automation, ensuring that everybody has the tools and they're familiar with how automation is going to work and how their day job is going to change because of automation. So I think once the organization embraces automation and the culture is in place. On the technology side, low hanging fruit automation can be as simple as just using Ansible to push the commands that you would have previously pushed to the device. And then as your organization matures, and you mature along this kind of path of network automation, you're dealing with larger pieces, larger sections of the configuration. And I think over time, network engineers will become data managers, right? Because they become less concerned about the network, the vendors specific configuration, and they're really managing the data that makes up the configuration. And I think once you hit that part, you've won at automation because you can move forward with Ansible resource modules. You're well positioned to do NETCONF for RESTCONF or... Right once you've kind of grown to that it's the data that we need to be concerned about and it could fit (indistinct) and the operational state management piece, you're going to go through a transformation on the networking side. >> So you mentioned-- >> And one thing to note there, if I may, I feel like a piece of this too, is you're able to actually bridge teams because of the capability of Ansible, the breadth of technologies that we've had integrations with and our ability to actually bridge that gap between different technologies, different teams. Once you have that culture of automation, you can start to realize these DevOps and DevSecOps workflow styles that are top of everybody's mind these days. And that's something that I think is very powerful. And I like to try to preach when I have the opportunity to talk to folks about what we can do, and the fact that we have so much capability and so many integrations across the entire industry. >> That's a great point. DevSecOps is totally a hop on. When you have software and hardware, it becomes interesting. There's a variety of different equipment, on the security automation. What kind of security appliances can you guys automate? >> As of today, we are able to do endpoint management systems, enterprise firewalls, security information, and event management systems. We're able to do security orchestration, automation, remediation systems, privileged access management systems. We're doing some threat intelligence platforms. And we've recently added to the I'm sorry, did I say intrusion detection? We have intrusion detection and prevention, and we recently added endpoint security management. >> Huge, huge value there. And I think everyone's wants that. Jill, I've got to ask you about the Cloud because the modules came up. What use cases do you see the Ansible modules in for the public cloud? Because you got a lot of cloud native folks in public cloud, you've got enterprises lifting and shifting, there's a hybrid and multicloud horizon here. What's some of the use cases where you see those Ansible modules fitting well with public level. >> The modules that we have in public cloud can work across all of those things, you know. In our public clouds, we have support for Amazon web services, Azure GCP, and they all support your main services. You can spin up a Lambda, you can deploy ECS clusters, build AMI, all of those things. And then once you get all of that up there, especially looking at AWS, which is where I spend the most time, you get all your EC2 instances up, you can now pull that back down into Ansible, build an inventory from that. And seamlessly then use Ansible to manage those instances, whether they're running Linux or windows or whatever distro you might have them running, we can go straight from having deployed all of those services and resources to managing them and going between your instances in your traditional operating system management or those instances and your cloud services. And if you've got multiple clouds or if you still have on prem, or if you need to, for some reason, add those remote cloud instances into some sort of on-prem hardware load balancer, security endpoint, we can go between all of those things and glue everything together, fairly seamlessly. You can put all of that into tower and have one kind of view of your cloud and your hardware and your on-prem and being able to move things between them. >> Just put some color commentary on what that means for the customer in terms of, is it pain reduction, time savings? How would you classify their value? >> I mean, both. Instead of having to go between a number of different tools and say, "Oh, well for my on-prem, I have to use this. "But as soon as I shift over to a cloud, "I have to use these tools. "And, Oh, I can't manage my Linux instances with this tool "that only knows how to speak to, the EC2 to API." You can use one tool for all of these things. So like we were saying, bring all of your different teams together, give them one tool and one view for managing everything end to end. I think that's, that's pretty killer. >> All right. Now I get to the fun part. I want you guys to weigh in on the Kubernetes. Adam, if you can start with you, we'll start with you go in and tell us why is Kubernetes more important now? What does it mean? A lot of hype continues to be out there. What's the real meet around Kubernetes what's going on? >> I think the big thing is the modernization of the application development delivery. When you talk about Kubernetes and OpenShift and the capabilities we have there, and you talk about the architecture, you can build a lot of the tooling that you used to have to maintain, to be able to deliver sophisticated resilient architectures in your application stack, are now baked into the actual platform, so the container platform itself takes care of that for you and removes that complexity from your operations team, from your development team. And then they can actually start to use these primitives and kind of achieve what the cloud native compute foundation keeps calling cloud native applications and the ability to develop and do this in a way that you are able to take yourself out of some of the components you used to have to babysit a lot. And that becomes in also with the OpenShift operator framework that came out of originally Coral S, and if you go to operator hub, you're able to see these full lifecycle management stacks of infrastructure components that you don't... You no longer have to actually, maintain a large portion of what you start to do. And so the operator SDK itself, are actually developing these operators. Ansible is one of the automation capabilities. So there's currently three supported there's Ansible, there's one that you just have full access to the Golang API and then helm charts. So Ansible's specifically obviously being where we focus. We have our collection content for the... carries that core, and then also ReHat to OpenShift certified collection's coming out in, I think, a month or so. Don't hold me to the timeline. I'm shoving in trouble for that one, but we have those things going to come out. Those will be baked into the operator's decay that we fully supported by our customer base. And then we can actually start utilizing the Ansible expertise of your operations team to container native of the infrastructure components that you want to put into this new platform. And then Ansible itself is able to build that capability of automating the entire Kubernetes or OpenShift cluster in a way that allows you to go into a brownfield environment and automate your existing infrastructure, along with your more container native, futuristic next generation, net structure. >> Jill this brings up the question. Why don't you just use native public cloud resources versus Kubernetes and Ansible? What's the... What should people know about where you use that, those resources? >> Well, and it's kind of what Adam was saying with all of those brownfield deployments and to the same point, how many workloads are still running just in EC2 instances or VMs on the cloud. There's still a lot of tech out there that is not ready to be made fully cloud native or containerized or broken up. And with OpenShift, it's one more layer that lets you put everything into a kind of single environment instead of having to break things up and say, "Oh, well, this application has to go here. "And this application has to be in this environment.' You can do that across a public cloud and use a little of this component and a little of that component. But if you can bring everything together in OpenShift and manage it all with the same tools on the same platform, it simplifies the landscape of, I need to care about all of these things and look at all of these different things and keep track of these and are my tools all going to work together and are my tools secure? Anytime you can simplify that part of your infrastructure, I think is a big win. >> John: You know, I think about-- >> The one thing, if I may, Jill spoke to this, I think in the way that a architectural, infrastructure person would, but I want to try to really quick take the business analyst component of it as the hybrid component. If you're trying to address multiple footprints, both on prem, off prem, multiple public clouds, if you're running OpenShift across all of them, you have that single, consistent deployment and development footprint for everywhere. So I don't disagree with anything they said, I just wanted to focus specifically on... That piece is something that I find personally unique, as that was a problem for me in a past life. And that kind of speaks to me. >> Well, speaking of past lives-- >> Having me as an infrastructure person, thank you. >> Yeah. >> Well, speaking of past lives, OpenStack, you look at Jill with OpenStack, we've been covering the Cuba thing when OpenStack was rolling out back in the day, but you can also have private cloud. Where you used to... There's a lot of private cloud out there. How do you talk about that? How do people understand using public cloud versus the private cloud aspect of Ansible? >> Yeah, and I think there is still a lot of private cloud out there and I don't think that's a bad thing. I've kind of moved over onto the public cloud side of things, but there are still a lot of use cases that a lot of different industries and companies have that don't make sense for putting into public cloud. So you still have a lot of these on-prem open shift and on-prem OpenStack deployments that make a ton of sense and that are solving a bunch of problems for these folks. And I think they can all work together. We have Ansible that can support both of those. If you're a telco, you're not going to put your network function, virtualization on USC as to one in spot instances, right? When you call nine one one, you don't want that going through the public cloud. You want that to be on dedicated infrastructure, that's reliable and well-managed and engineered for that use case. So I think we're going to see a lot of ongoing OpenStack and on-prem OpenShift, especially with edge, enabling those types of use cases for a long time. And I think that's great. >> I totally agree with you. I think private cloud is not a bad thing at all. Things that are only going to accelerate my opinion. You look at the VM world, they talked about the telco cloud and you mentioned edge when five G comes out, you're going to have basically have private clouds everywhere, I guess, in my opinion. But anyway, speaking of VMware, could you talk about the Ansible VMware module real quick? >> Yeah, so we have a new collection that we'll be debuting at Ansible Fest this year bore the VMware REST API. So the existing VMware modules that we have usually SOAP API for VMware, and they rely on an external Python library that VMware provides, but with these fare 6.0 and especially in vSphere 6.5, VMware has stepped up with a REST API end point that we find is a lot more performance and offers a lot of options. So we built a new collection of VMware modules that will take advantage of that. That's brand new, it's a lighter way. It's much faster, we'll get better performance out of it. You know, reduced external requirements. You can install it and get started faster. And especially with these sphere seven, continuing to build on this REST API, we're going to see more and more interfaces being exposed so that we can take advantage. We plan to expand it as new interfaces are being exposed in that API, it's compatible with all of the existing modules. You can go back and forth, use your existing playbooks and start introducing these. But I think especially on the performance side, and especially as we get these larger clouds and more cloud deployments, edge clouds, where you have these private clouds and lots and lots of different places, the performance benefits of this new collection that we're trying to build is going to be really, really powerful for a lot of folks. >> Awesome. Brad, we didn't forget about you. We're going to bring you back in. Network automation has moved towards the resource modules. Why should people care about them? >> Yeah. Resource modules, excuse me. Probably I think having been a network engineer for so long, I think some of the most exciting work that has gone into Ansible network over the past year and a half, what the resource modules really do for you is they will reach out to network devices. They will pull back that network native, that vendor native configuration. While the resource module actually does the parsing for you. So there's none of that with the resource modules. And we returned structured data back to the user that represents the configuration. Going back to your question about source of truth. You can take that structure data, maybe for your interface CONFIG, your OSPF CONFIG, your access list CONFIG, and you can store that data in your source of truth under source of truth. And then where you are moving forward, is you really spend time as every engineer managing the data that makes up the configuration, and you can share that data across different platforms. So if you were to look at a lot of the resource modules, the data model that they support, it's fairly consistent between vendors. As an example, I can pull OSPF configuration from one vendor and with very small changes, push that OSPF configuration to a different vendor's platform. So really what we've tried to do with the resource modules is normalize the data model across vendors. It'll never be a hundred percent because there's functionality that exists in one platform that doesn't exist and that's exposed through the configuration, but where we could, we have normalized the data model. So I think it's really introducing the concept of network configuration management through data management and not through CLI commands anymore. >> Yeah, that's a great point. It just expands the network automation vision. And one of the things that's interesting here in this panel is you're talking about, cloud holistically, public multicloud, private hybrid security network automation as a platform, not just a tool, we're still going to have all kind of tools out there. And then the importance of automating the edge. I mean, that's a network game Brad. I mean, it's a data problem, right? I mean, we all know about networking, moving packets from here to there, but automating the data is critical and you give have bad data and you don't have... If you have misinformation, it sounds like our current politics, but you know, bad information is bad automation. I mean, what's your thoughts? How do you share that concept to developers out there? What should they be thinking about in terms of the data quality? >> I think that's the next thing we have to tackle as network engineers. It's not, do I have access to the data? You can get the data now for resource modules, you can get the data from NETCONF, from RESTCONF, you can get it from OpenConfig, you can get it from parsing. The question really is, how do you ensure the integrity and the quality of the data that is making up your configurations and the consistency of the data that you're using to look at operational state. And I think this is where the source of truth really becomes important. If you look at Git as a viable source of truth, you've got all the tools and the mechanisms within Git to use that as your source of truth for network configuration. So network engineers are actually becoming developers in the sense that they're using Git ops to worklow to manage configuration moving forward. It's just really exciting to see that transformation happen. >> Great panel. Thanks for everyone coming on, I appreciate it. We'll just end this by saying, if you guys could just quickly summarize Ansible fast 2020 virtual, what should people walk away with? What should your customers walk away with this year? What's the key points. Jill, we'll start with you. >> Hopefully folks will walk away with the idea that the Ansible community includes so many different folks from all over, solving lots of different, interesting problems, and that we can all come together and work together to solve those problems in a way that is much more effective than if we were all trying to solve them individually ourselves, by bringing those problems out into the open and working together, we get a lot done. >> Awesome, Brad? >> I'm going to go with collections, collections, collections. We introduced in last year. This year, they are real. Ansible2.10 that just came out is made up of collections. We've got certified collections on automation. We've got cloud collections, network collections. So they are here. They're the real thing. And I think it just gets better and deeper and more content moving forward. All right, Adam? >> Going last is difficult. Especially following these two. They covered a lot of ground and I don't really know that I have much to add beyond the fact that when you think about Ansible, don't think about it in a single context. It is a complete automation solution. The capability that we have is very extensible. It's very pluggable, which has a standing ovation to the collections and the solutions that we can come up with collectively. Thanks to ourselves. Everybody in the community is almost infinite. A few years ago, one of the core engineers did a keynote speech using Ansible to automate Philips hue light bulbs. Like this is what we're capable of. We can automate the fortune 500 data centers and telco networks. And then we can also automate random IOT devices around your house. Like we have a lot of capability here and what we can do with the platform is very unique and something special. And it's very much thanks to the community, the team, the open source development way. I just, yeah-- >> (Indistinct) the open source of truth, being collaborative all is what it makes up and DevOps and Sec all happening together. Thanks for the insight. Appreciate the time. Thank you. >> Thank you. I'm John Furrier, you're watching theCube here for Ansible Fest, 2020 virtual. Thanks for watching. (soft upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hello, and welcome to The Great Cloud Debate. I'm your moderator Rachel Dines. I'm joined by two debaters today Corey Quinn, Cloud Economist at the Duckbill Group and Stu Miniman, Senior Analyst and Host of theCube. Welcome Corey and Stu, this when you can say hello. >> Hey Rachel, great to talk to you. >> And it's better to talk to me. It's always a pleasure to talk to the fine folks over at CloudHealth at by VMware and less of the pleasure to talk to Stu. >> Smack talk is scheduled for later in the agenda gentlemen, so please keep it to a minimum now to keep us on schedule. So here's how today is going to work. I'm going to introduce a debate topic and assign Corey and Stu each to a side. Remember, their assignments are what I decide and they might not actually match their true feelings about a topic, and it definitely does not represent the feelings of their employer or my employer, importantly. Each debater is going to have two minutes to state their opening arguments, then we'll have rebuttals. And each round you the audience gets to vote of who you think is winning. And at the end of the debate, I'll announce the winner. The prize is bragging rights of course, but then also we're having each debater play to win lunch for their local hospital, which is really exciting. So Stu, which hospital are you playing for? >> Yeah, so Rachel, I'm choosing Brigham Women's Hospital. I get a little bit of a home vote for the Boston audience here and was actually my wife's first job out of school. >> Great hospital. Very, very good. All right, Corey, what about you? >> My neighbor winds up being as specialist in infectious diseases as a doctor, and that was always one of those weird things you learn over a cocktail party until this year became incredibly relevant. So I will absolutely be sending the lunch to his department. >> Wonderful! All right. Well, is everyone ready? Any last words? This is your moment for smack talk. >> I think I'll say that for once we can apply it to a specific technology area. Otherwise, it was insulting his appearance and that's too easy. >> All right, let's get going. The first topic is multicloud. Corey, you'll be arguing that companies are better off standardizing on a single cloud. While Stu, you're going to argue the companies are better off with a multicloud strategy. Corey, you're up first, two minutes on the clock and go. >> All right. As a general rule, picking a single provider and going all in leads to the better outcome. Otherwise, you're trying to build every workload to run seamlessly on other providers on a moment's notice. You don't ever actually do it and all you're giving up in return is the ability to leverage whatever your primary cloud provider is letting you build. Now you're suddenly trying to make two differently behaving load balancers work together in the same way, you're using terraform or as I like to call it multicloud formation in the worst of all possible ways. Because now you're having to only really build on one provider, but all the work you're putting in to make that scale to other providers, you might theoretically want to go to at some point, it slows you down, you're never going to be able to move as quickly trying to build for everyone as you are for one particular provider. And I don't care which provider you pick, you probably care which one you pick, I don't care which one. The point is, you've got to pick what's right for your business. And in almost every case, that means start on a single platform. And if you need to migrate down the road years from now, great, that means A you've survived that long, and B you now have the longevity as a business to understand what migrating looks like. Otherwise you're not able to take care of any of the higher level offerings these providers offer that are even slightly differentiated from each other. And even managed database services behave differently. You've got to become a master of all the different ways these things can fail and unfortunate and displeasing ways. It just leaves you in a position where you're not able to specialize, and of course, makes hiring that much harder. Stu, fight me! >> Tough words there. All right, Stu, your turn. Why are companies better off if they go with a multicloud strategy? Got two minutes? >> Yeah, well first of all Corey, I'm really glad that I didn't have to whip out the AWS guidelines, you were not sticking strictly to it and saying that you could not use the words multicloud, cross-cloud, any cloud or every cloud so thank you for saving me that argument. But I want you to kind of come into the real world a little bit. We want access to innovation, we want flexibility, and well, we used to say I would have loved to have a single provider, in the real world we understand that people end up using multiple solutions. If you look at the AI world today, there's not a provider that is a clear leader in every environment that I have. So there's a reason why I might want to use a lot of clouds. Most companies I talked to, Corey, they still have some of their own servers. They're working in a data center, we've seen huge explosion in the service provider world connecting to multiple clouds. So well, a couple of years ago, multicloud was a complete mess. Now, it's only a little bit of a mess, Corey. So absolutely, there's work that we need to do as an industry to make these solutions better. I've been pining for a couple years to say that multicloud needs to be stronger than the sum of its pieces. And we might not yet be there but limiting yourself to a single cloud is reducing your access to innovation, it's reducing your flexibility. And when you start looking at things like edge computing and AI, I'm going to need to access services from multiple providers. So single cloud is a lovely ideal, but in the real world, we understand that teams come with certain skill sets. We end up in many industries, we have mergers and acquisitions. And it's not as easy to just rip out all of your cloud, like you would have 20 years ago, if you said, "Oh, well, they have a phone system or a router "that didn't match what our corporate guidelines is." Cloud is what we're doing. There's lots of solutions out there. And therefore, multicloud is the reality today, and will be the reality going forward for many years to come. >> Strong words from you, Stu. Corey, you've got 60 seconds for rebuttal. I mostly agree with what you just said. I think that having different workloads in different clouds makes an awful lot of sense. Data gravity becomes a bit of a bear. But if you acquire a company that's running on a different cloud than the one that you've picked, you'd be ridiculous to view migrating as anything approaching a strategic priority. Now, this also gets into the question of what is cloud? Our G Suite stuff counts as cloud, but no one really views it in that way. Similarly, when you have an AI specific workload, that's great. As long as it isn't you seriously expensive to move data between providers. That workload doesn't need to live in the same place as your marketing website does. I think that the idea of having a specific cloud provider that you go all in on for every use case, well, at some point that leads to ridiculous things like pretending that Amazon WorkDocs has customers, it does not. But for things that matter to your business and looking at specific workloads, I think that you're going to find a primary provider with secondary workloads here and they're scattered elsewhere to be the strategy that people are getting at when they use the word multicloud badly. >> Time's up for you Corey, Stu we've got time for rebuttal and remember, for those of you in the audience, you can vote at any time and who you think is winning this round. Stu, 60 seconds for a rebuttal. >> Yeah, absolutely Corey. Look, you just gave the Andy Jassy of what multicloud should be 70 to 80% goes to a single provider. And it does make sense we know nobody ever said multicloud equals the same amount in multiple environments but you made a clear case as to why multicloud leveraging multi providers is likely what most companies are going to do. So thank you so much for making a clear case as to why multicloud not equal cloud, across multiple providers is the way to go. So thank you for conceding the victory. >> Last Words, Corey. >> If that's what you took from it Stu, I can't get any closer to it than you have. >> All right, let's move on to the next topic then. The next topic is serverless versus containers which technology is going to be used in, let's say, five to 10 years time? And as a reminder, I'm going to assign each of the debaters these topics, their assignments may or may not match their true feelings about this topic, and they definitely don't represent the topics of my employer, CloudHealth by VMware. Stu, you're going to argue for containers. Corey you're going to argue for start serverless. Stu, you're up first. Two minutes on the clock and go. >> All right, so with all respect to my friends in the serverless community, We need to have a reality check as to how things work. We all know that serverless is a ridiculous name because underneath we do need to worry about all of the infrastructure underneath. So containers today are the de facto building block for cloud native architectures, just as the VM defined the ecosystem for an entire generation of solutions. Containers are the way we build things today. It is the way Google has architected their entire solution and underneath it is often something that's used with serverless. So yes, if you're, building an Alexa service, serverless make what's good for you. But for the vast majority of solutions, I need to have flexibility, I need to understand how things work underneath it. We know in IT that it's great when things work, but we need to understand how to fix them when they break. So containerization gets us to that atomic level, really close to having the same thing as the application. And therefore, we saw the millions of users that deploy Docker, we saw the huge wave of container orchestration led by Kubernetes. And the entire ecosystem and millions of customers are now on board with this way of designing and architecting and breaking down the silos between the infrastructure world and the application developer world. So containers, here to stay growing fast. >> All right, Corey, what do you think? Why is serverless the future? >> I think that you're right in that containers are the way you get from where you were to something that runs effectively in a cloud environment. That is why Google is so strongly behind Kubernetes it helps get the entire industry to write code the way that Google might write code. And that's great. But if you're looking at effectively rewriting something from scratch, or building something that new, the idea of not having to think about infrastructure in the traditional sense of being able to just here, take this code and run it in a given provider that takes whatever it is that you need to do and could loose all these other services together, saves an awful lot of time. As that continues to move up the stack towards the idea of no code or low code. And suddenly, you're now able to build these applications in ways that require just a little bit of code that tie together everything else. We're closer than ever to that old trope of the only code you write is business logic. Serverless gives a much clearer shot of getting there, if you can divorce yourself from the past of legacy workloads. Legacy, of course meaning older than 18 months and makes money. >> Stu, do you have a rebuttal, 60 seconds? >> Yeah. So Corey, we've been talking about this Nirvana in many ways. It's the discussion that we had for paths for over a decade now. I want to be able to write my code once not worry about where it lives, and do all this. But sometimes, there's a reason why we keep trying the same thing over and over again, but never reaching it. So serverless is great for some application If you talked about, okay, if you're some brand new webby thing there and I don't want to have to do this team, that's awesome. I've talked to some wonderful people that don't know anything about coding that have built some cool stuff with serverless. But cool stuff isn't what most business runs on, and therefore containerization is, as you said, it's a bridge to where I need to go, it lives in these cloud environments, and it is the present and it is the future. >> Corey, your response. >> I agree that it's the present, I doubt that it's the future in quite the same way. Right now Kubernetes is really scratching a major itch, which is how all of these companies who are moving to public cloud still I can have their infrastructure teams be able to cosplay as cloud providers themselves. And over time, that becomes simpler and I think on some level, you might even see a convergence of things that are container workloads begin to look a lot more like serverless workloads. Remember, we're aiming at something that is five years away in the context of this question. I think that the serverless and container landscape will look very different. The serverless landscape will be bright and exciting and new, whereas unfortunately the container landscape is going to be represented by people like you Stu. >> Hoarse words from Corey. Stu, any last words or rebuttals? >> Yeah, and look Corey absolutely just like we don't really think about the underlying server or VM, we won't think about the containers you won't think about Kubernetes in the future, but, the question is, which technology will be used in five to 10 years, it'll still be there. It will be the fabric of our lives underneath there for containerization. So, that is what we were talking about. Serverless I think will be useful in pockets of places but will not be the predominant technology, five years from now. >> All right, tough to say who won that one? I'm glad I don't have to decide. I hope everyone out there is voting, last chance to vote on this question before we move on to the next. Next topic is cloud wars. I'm going to give a statement and then I'm going to assign each of you a pro or a con, Google will never be an actual contender in the cloud wars always a far third, we're going to have Corey arguing that Google is never going to be an actual contender. And Stu, you're going to argue that Google is eventually going to overtake the top two AWS and Azure. As a constant reminder, I'm assigning these topics, it's my decision and also they don't match the opinions of me, my employer, or likely Stu or Corey. This is all just for fun and games. But I really want to hear what everyone has to say. So Corey, you're up first two minutes. Why is Google never going to be an actual contender and go. >> The biggest problem Google has in the time of cloud is their ability to forecast longer term on anything that isn't their advertising business, and their ability to talk to human beings long enough to meet people where they are. We're replacing their entire culture is what it's going to take to succeed in the time of cloud and with respect, Thomas Kurian is a spectacular leader internally but look at where he's come from. He spent 22 years at Oracle and now has been transplanted into Google. If we take a look at Satya Nadella's cloud transformation at Microsoft, he was able to pull that off as an insider, after having known intimately every aspect of that company, and he grew organically with it and was perfectly positioned to make that change. You can't instill that kind of culture change by dropping someone externally, on top of an organization and expecting anything to go with this magic one day wake up and everything's going to work out super well. Google has a tremendous amount of strengths, and I don't see that providing common denominator cloud computing services to a number of workloads that from a Google perspective are horrifying, is necessarily in their wheelhouse. It feels like their entire focus on this is well, there's money over there. We should go get some of that too. It comes down to the traditional Google lack of focus. >> Stu, rebuttal? Why do you think Google has a shaft? >> Yeah, so first of all, Corey, I think we'd agree Google is a powerhouse in the world today. My background is networking, when they first came out with with Google Cloud, I said, Google has the best network, second to none in the world. They are ubiquitous today. If you talk about the impact they have on the world, Android phones, you mentioned Kubernetes, everybody uses G Suite maps, YouTube, and the like. That does not mean that they are necessarily going to become the clear leader in cloud but, Corey, they've got really, really smart people. If you're not familiar with that talk to them. They'll tell you how smart they are. And they have built phenomenal solutions, who's going to be able to solve, the challenge every day of, true distributed systems, that a global database that can handle the clock down to the atomic level, Google's the one that does that we've all read the white papers on that. They've set the tone for Hadoop, and various solutions that are all over the place, and their secret weapon is not the advertising, of course, that is a big concern for them, but is that if you talk about, the consumer adoption, everyone uses Google. My kids have all had Chromebooks growing up. It isn't their favorite thing, but they get, indoctrinated with Google technology. And as they go out and leverage technologies in the world, Google is one that is known. Google has the strength of technology and a lot of positioning and partnerships to move them forward. Everybody wants a strong ecosystem in cloud, we don't want a single provider. We already discussed this before, but just from a competitive nature standpoint, if there is a clear counterbalance to AWS, I would say that it is Google, not Microsoft, that is positioned to be that clear and opportune. >> Interesting, very interesting Stu. So your argument is the Gen Zers will of ultimately when they come of age become the big Google proponents. Some strong words that as well but they're the better foil to AWS, Corey rebuttal? >> I think that Stu is one t-shirt change away from a pitch perfect reenactment of Charlie Brown. In this case with Google playing the part of Lucy yanking the football away every time. We've seen it with inbox, Google Reader, Google Maps, API pricing, GKE's pricing for control plane. And when your argument comes down to a suddenly Google is going to change their entire nature and become something that it is as proven as constitutionally incapable of being, namely supporting something that its customers want that it doesn't itself enjoy working on. And to the exclusion of being able to get distracted and focused on other things. Even their own conferences called Next because Google is more interested in what they're shipping than what they're building, than what they're currently shipping. I think that it is a fantasy to pretend that that is somehow going to change without a complete cultural transformation, which again, I don't see the seeds being planted for. >> Some sick burns in there Stu, rebuttal? >> Yeah. So the final word that I'll give you on this is, one of the most important pieces of what we need today. And we need to tomorrow is our data. Now, there are some concerns when we talk about Google and data, but Google also has strong strength in data, understanding data, helping customers leverage data. So while I agree to your points about the cultural shift, they have the opportunity to take the services that they have, and enable customers to be able to take their data to move forward to the wonderful world of AI, cloud, edge computing, and all of those pieces and solve the solution with data. >> Strong words there. All right, that's a tough one. Again, I hope you're all out there voting for who you think won that round. Let's move on to the last round before we start hitting the lightning questions. I put a call out on several channels and social media for people to have questions that they want you to debate. And this one comes from Og-AWS Slack member, Angelo. Angelo asks, "What about IBM Cloud?" Stu you're pro, Corey you're con. Let's have Stu you're up first. The question is, what about IBM Cloud? >> All right, so great question, Angelo. I think when you look at the cloud providers, first of all, you have to understand that they're not all playing the same game. We talked about AWS and they are the elephant in the room that moves nimbly as a cheetah. Every other provider plays a little bit of a different game. Google has strength in data. Microsoft, of course, has their, business productivity applications. IBM has a strong legacy. Now, Corey is going to say that they are just legacy and you need to think about them but IBM has strong innovation. They are a player in really what we call chapter two of the cloud. So when we start talking about multicloud, when we start talking about living in many environments, IBM was the first one to partner with VMware for VMware cloud before the mega VMware AWS announcement, there was IBM up on stage and if I remember right, they actually have more VMware customers on IBM Cloud than they do in the AWS cloud. So over my shoulder here, there's of course, the Red Hat $34 billion to bet on that multicloud solution. So as we talk about containerization, and Kubernetes, Red Hat is strongly positioned in open-source, and flexibility. So you really need a company that understands both the infrastructure side and the application side. IBM has database, IBM has infrastructure, IBM has long been the leader in middleware, and therefore IBM has a real chance to be a strong player in this next generation of platforms. Doesn't mean that they're necessarily going to go attack Amazon, they're partnering across the board. So I think you will see a kinder, gentler IBM and they are leveraging open source and Red Hat and I think we've let the dogs out on the IBM solution. >> Indeed. >> So before Corey goes, I feel the need to remind everyone that the views expressed here are not the views of my employer nor myself, nor necessarily of Corey or Stu. I have Corey. >> I haven't even said anything yet. And you're disclaiming what I'm about to say. >> I'm just warning the audience, 'cause I can't wait to hear what you're going to say next. >> Sounds like I have to go for the high score. All right. IBM's best days are behind it. And that is pretty clear. They like to get angry when people talk about how making the jokes about a homogenous looking group of guys in blue suits as being all IBM has to offer. They say that hasn't been true since the '80s. But that was the last time people cared about IBM in any meaningful sense and no one has bothered to update the relevance since then. Now, credit where due, I am seeing an awful lot of promoted tweets from IBM into my timeline, all talking about how amazing their IBM blockchain technology is. And yes, that is absolutely the phrasing of someone who's about to turn it all around and win the game. I don't see it happening. >> Stu, rebuttal? >> Look, Corey, IBM was the company that brought us the UPC code. They understand Mac manufacturing and blockchain actually shows strong presence in supply chain management. So maybe you're not quite aware of some of the industries that IBM is an expert in. So that is one of the big strengths of IBM, they really understand verticals quite well. And, at the IBM things show, I saw a lot in the healthcare world, had very large customers that were leveraging those solutions. So while you might dismiss things when they say, Oh, well, one of the largest telecom providers in India are leveraging OpenStack and you kind of go with them, well, they've got 300 million customers, and they're thrilled with the solution that they're doing with IBM, so it is easy to scoff at them, but IBM is a reliable, trusted provider out there and still very strong financially and by the way, really excited with the new leadership in place there, Arvind Krishna knows product, Jim Whitehurst came from the Red Hat side. So don't be sleeping on IBM. >> Corey, any last words? >> I think that they're subject to massive disruption as soon as they release the AWS 400 mainframe in the cloud. And I think that before we, it's easy to forget this, but before Google was turning off Reader, IBM stopped making the model M buckling spring keyboards. Those things were masterpieces and that was one of the original disappointments that we learned that we can't fall in love with companies, because companies in turn will not love us back. IBM has demonstrated that. Lastly, I think I'm thrilled to be working with IBM is exactly the kind of statement one makes only at gunpoint. >> Hey, Corey, by the way, I think you're spending too much time looking at all titles of AWS services, 'cause you don't know the difference between your mainframe Z series and the AS/400 which of course is heavily pending. >> Also the i series. Oh yes. >> The i series. So you're conflating your system, which still do billions of dollars a year, by the way. >> Oh, absolutely. But that's not we're not seeing new banks launching and then building on top of IBM mainframe technology. I'm not disputing that mainframes were phenomenal. They were, I just don't see them as the future and I don't see a cloud story. >> Only a cloud live your mainframe related smack talk. That's the important thing that we're getting to here. All right, we move-- >> I'm hoping there's an announcement from CloudHealth by VMware that they also will now support mainframe analytics as well as traditional cloud. >> I'll look into that. >> Excellent. >> We're moving on to the lightning rounds. Each debater in this round is only going to get 60 seconds for their opening argument and then 30 seconds for a rebuttal. We're going to hit some really, really big important questions here like this first one, which is who deserves to sit on the Iron Throne at the end of "Game of Thrones?" I've been told that Corey has never seen this TV show so I'm very interested to hear him argue for Sansa. But let's Sansa Stark, let's hear Stu go first with his argument for Jon Snow. Stu one minute on the clock, go. >> All right audience let's hear it from the king of the north first of all. Nothing better than Jon Snow. He made the ultimate sacrifice. He killed his love to save Westeros from clear destruction because Khaleesi had gone mad. So Corey is going to say something like it's time for the women to do this but it was a woman she went mad. She started burning the place down and Jon Snow saved it so it only makes sense that he should have done it. Everyone knows it was a travesty that he was sent back to the Wall, and to just wander the wild. So absolutely Jon Snow vote for King of the North. >> Compelling arguments. Corey, why should Sansa Stark sit on the throne? Never having seen the show I've just heard bits and pieces about it and all involves things like bloody slaughters, for example, the AWS partner Expo right before the keynote is best known as AWS red wedding. We take a look at that across the board and not having seen it, I don't know the answer to this question, but how many of the folks who are in positions of power we're in fact mediocre white dudes and here we have Stu advocating for yet another one. Sure, this is a lightning round of a fun event but yes, we should continue to wind up selecting this mediocre white person has many parallels in terms of power, et cetera, politics, current tech industry as a whole. I think she's right we absolutely should give someone with a look like this a potential opportunity to see what they can do instead. >> Ouch, Stu 30 seconds rebuttal. >> Look, I would just give a call out to the women in the audience and say, don't you want Jon Snow to be king? >> I also think it's quite bold of Corey to say that he looks like Kit Harington. Corey, any last words? >> I think that it sad you think Stu was running for office at this point because he's become everyone's least favorite animal, a panda bear. >> Fire. All right, so on to the next question. This one also very important near and dear to my heart personally, is a hot dog a sandwich. Corey you'll be arguing no, Stu will be arguing yes. I must also add this important disclaimer that these assignments are made by me and might not reflect the actual views of the debaters here so Corey, you're up first. Why is a hot dog not a sandwich? >> Because you'll get punched in the face if you go to a deli of any renown and order a hot dog. That is not what they serve there. They wind up having these famous delicatessen in New York they have different sandwiches named after different celebrities. I shudder to think of the deadly insult that naming a hot dog after a celebrity would be to that not only celebrity in some cases also the hot dog too. If you take a look and you want to get sandwiches for lunch? Sure. What are we having catered for this event? Sandwiches. You show up and you see a hot dog, you're looking around the hot dog to find the rest of the sandwich. Now while it may check all of the boxes for a technical definition of what a sandwich is, as I'm sure Stu will boringly get into, it's not what people expect, there's a matter of checking the actual boxes, and then delivering what customers actually want. It's why you can let your product roadmap be guided by cart by customers or by Gartner but rarely both. >> Wow, that one hurts. Stu, why is the hot dog a sandwich? >> Yeah so like Corey, I'm sorry that you must not have done some decent traveling 'cause I'm glad you brought up the definition because I'm not going to bore you with yes, there's bread and there's meat and there's toppings and everything else like that but there are some phenomenal hot dogs out there. I traveled to Iceland a few years ago, and there's a little hot dog stand out there that's been there for over 40 or 50 years. And it's one of the top 10 culinary experience I put in. And I've been to Michelin star restaurants. You go to Chicago and any local will be absolutely have to try our creation. There are regional hot dogs. There are lots of solutions there and so yeah, of course you don't go to a deli. Of course if you're going to the deli for takeout and you're buying meats, they do sell hot dogs, Corey, it's just not the first thing that you're going to order on the menu. So I think you're underselling the hot dog. Whether you are a child and grew up and like eating nothing more than the mustard or ketchup, wherever you ate on it, or if you're a world traveler, and have tried some of the worst options out there. There are a lot of options for hot dogs so hot dog, sandwich, culinary delight. >> Stu, don't think we didn't hear that pun. I'm not sure if that counts for or against you, but Corey 30 seconds rebuttal. >> In the last question, you were agitating for putting a white guy back in power. Now you're sitting here arguing that, "Oh some of my best friend slash meals or hot dogs." Yeah, I think we see what you're putting down Stu and it's not pretty, it's really not pretty and I think people are just going to start having to ask some very pointed, delicate questions. >> Tough words to hear Stu. Close this out or rebuttal. >> I'm going to take the high road, Rachel and leave that where it stands. >> I think that is smart. All right, next question. Tabs versus spaces. Stu, you're going to argue for tabs, Corey, you're going to argue for spaces just to make this fun. Stu, 60 seconds on the clock, you're up first. Why are tabs the correct approach? >> First of all, my competitor here really isn't into pop culture. So he's probably not familiar with the epic Silicon Valley argument over this discussion. So, Corey, if you could explain the middle of algorithm, we will be quite impressed but since you don't, we'll just have to go with some of the technology first. Looks, developers, we want to make things simple on you. Tabs, they're faster to do they take up less memory. Yes, they aren't quite as particular as using spaces but absolutely, they get the job done and it is important to just, focus on productivity, I believe that the conversation as always, the less code you can write, the better and therefore, if you don't have to focus on exactly how many spaces and you can just simplify with the tabs, you're gona get close enough for most of the job. And it is easier to move forward and focus on the real work rather than some pedantic discussion as to whether one thing is slightly more efficient than the other. >> Great points Stu. Corey, why is your pedantic approach better? >> No one is suggesting you sit there and whack the spacebar four times or eight times you hit the Tab key, but your editor should be reasonably intelligent enough to expand that. At that point, you have now set up a precedent where in other cases, other parts of your codebase you're using spaces because everyone always does. And that winds up in turn, causing a weird dissonance you'll see a bunch of linters throwing issues if you use tabs as a direct result. Now the wrong answer is, of course, and I think Steve will agree with me both in the same line. No one is ever in favor of that. But I also want to argue with Stu over his argument about "Oh, it saves a little bit of space "is the reason one should go with tabs instead." Sorry, that argument said bye bye a long time ago, and that time was the introduction of JavaScript, where it takes many hundreds of Meg's of data to wind up building hello world. Yeah, at that point optimization around small character changes are completely irrelevant. >> Stu, rebuttal? >> Yeah, I didn't know that Corey did not try to defend that he had any idea what Silicon Valley was, or any of the references in there. So Rachel, we might have to avoid any other pop culture references. We know Corey just looks at very specific cloud services and can't have fun with some of the broader themes there. >> You're right my mistake Stu. Corey, any last words? >> It's been suggested that whole middle out seen on the whiteboard was came from a number of conversations I used to have with my co-workers as in people who were sitting in the room with me watching that episode said, Oh my God, I've been in the room while you had this debate with your friend and I will not name here because they at least still strive to remain employable. Yeah, it's, I understand the value in the picking these fights, we could have gone just as easily with vi versus Emacs, AWS versus Azure, or anything else that you really care to pick a fight with. But yeah, this is exactly the kind of pedantic fight that everyone loves to get involved with, which is why I walked a different path and pick other ridiculous arguments. >> Speaking of those ridiculous arguments that brings us to our last debate topic of the day, Corey you are probably best known for your strong feelings about the pronunciation of the acronym for Amazon Machine Image. I will not be saying how I think it is pronounced. We're going to have you argue each. Stu, you're going to argue that the acronym Amazon Machine Image should be pronounced to rhyme with butterfly. Corey, you'll be arguing that it rhymes with mommy. Stu, rhymes with butterfly. Let's hear it, 60 seconds on the clock. >> All right, well, Rachel, first of all, I wish I could go to the videotape because I have clear video evidence from a certain Corey Quinn many times arguing why AMI is the proper way to pronounce this, but it is one of these pedantic arguments, is it GIF or GIF? Sometimes you go back and you say, Okay, well, there's the way that the community did it. And the way that oh wait, the founder said it was a certain way. So the only argument against AMI, Jeff Barr, when he wrote about the history of all of the blogging that he's done from AWS said, I wish when I had launched the service that I pointed out the correct pronunciation, which I won't even deem to talk it because the community has agreed by and large that AMI is the proper way to pronounce it. And boy, the tech industry is rific on this kind of thing. Is it SQL and no SQL and you there's various ways that we butcher these constantly. So AMI, almost everyone agrees and the lead champion for this argument, of course is none other than Corey Quinn. >> Well, unfortunately today Corey needs to argue the opposite. So Corey, why does Amazon Machine Image when pronounce as an acronym rhyme with mommy? >> Because the people who built it at Amazon say that it is and an appeal to authorities generally correct when the folks built this. AWS has said repeatedly that they're willing to be misunderstood for long periods of time. And this is one of those areas in which they have been misunderstood by virtually the entire industry, but they are sticking to their guns and continuing to wind up advocating for AMI as the correct pronunciation. But I'll take it a step further. Let's take a look at the ecosystem companies. Whenever Erica Brescia, who is now the COO and GitHub, but before she wound up there, she was the founder of Bitnami. And whenever I call it Bitn AMI she looks like she is barely successfully restraining herself from punching me right in the mouth for that pronunciation of the company. Clearly, it's Bitnami named after the original source AMI, which is what the proper term pronunciation of the three letter acronym becomes. Fight me Stu. >> Interesting. Interesting argument, Stu 30 seconds, rebuttal. >> Oh, the only thing he can come up with is that, you take the word Bitnami and because it has that we know that things sound very different if you put a prefix or a suffix, if you talk to the Kubernetes founders, Kubernetes should be coop con but the people that run the conference, say it cube con so there are lots of debates between the people that create it and the community. I in general, I'm going to vote with the community most of the time. Corey, last words on this topic 'cause I know you have very strong feelings about it. >> I'm sorry, did Stu just say Kubernetes and its community as bastions of truth when it comes to pronouncing anything correctly? Half of that entire conference is correcting people's pronunciation of Kubernetes, Kubernetes, Kubernetes, Kubernetes and 15 other mispronunciations that they will of course yell at you for but somehow they're right on this one. All right. >> All right, everyone, I hope you've been voting all along for who you think is winning each round, 'cause this has been a tough call. But I would like to say that's a wrap for today. big thank you to our debaters. You've been very good sports, even when I've made you argue for against things that clearly are hurting you deep down inside, we're going to take a quick break and tally all the votes. And we're going to announce a winner up on the Zoom Q and A. So go to the top of your screen, Click on Zoom Q and A to join us and hear the winner announced and also get a couple minutes to chat live with Corey and Stu. Thanks again for attending this session. And thank you again, Corey and Stu. It's been The Great Cloud Debate. All right, so each round I will announce the winner and then we're going to announce the overall winner. Remember that Corey and Stu are playing not just for bragging rights and ownership of all of the internet for the next 24 hours, but also for lunch to be donated to their local hospital. Corey is having lunch donated to the California Pacific Medical Centre. And Stu is having lunch donated to Boston Medical Centre. All right, first up round one multicloud versus monocloud. Stu, you were arguing for multicloud, Corey, you were arguing for one cloud. Stu won that one by 64% of the vote. >> The vendor fix was in. >> Yeah, well, look, CloudHealth started all in AWS by supporting customers across those environments. So and Corey you basically conceded it because we said multicloud does not mean we evenly split things up. So you got to work on those two skills, buddy, 'cause, absolutely you just handed the victory my way. So thank you so much and thank you to the audience for understanding multicloud is where we are today, and unfortunately, it's where we're gonnao be in the future. So as a whole, we're going to try to make it better 'cause it is, as Corey and I both agree, a bit of a mess right now. >> Don't get too cocky. >> One of those days the world is going to catch up with me and realize that ad hominem is not a logical fallacy so much as it is an excellent debating skill. >> Well, yeah, I was going to say, Stu, don't get too cocky because round two serverless versus containers. Stu you argued for containers, Corey you argued for serverless. Corey you won that one with 65, 66 or most percent of the vote. >> You can't fight the future. >> Yeah, and as you know Rachel I'm a big fan of serverless. I've been to the serverless comp, I actually just published an excellent interview with Liberty Mutual and what they're doing with serverless. So love the future, it's got a lot of maturity to deliver on the promise that it has today but containers isn't going anyway or either so. >> So, you're not sad that you lost that one. Got it, good concession speech. Next one up was cloud wars specifically Google. is Google a real contender in the clouds? Stu, you were arguing yes they are. Corey, you were arguing no they aren't. Corey also won this round was 72% of the votes. >> Yeah, it's one of those things where at some point, it's sort of embarrassing if you miss a six inch pot. So it's nice that that didn't happen in this case. >> Yeah, so Corey, is this the last week that we have any competitors to AWS? Is that what we're saying? And we all accept our new overlords. Thank you so much, Corey. >> Well I hope not, my God, I don't know what to be an Amazonian monoculture anymore than I do anyone else. Competition makes all of us better. But again, we're seeing a lot of anti competitive behaviour. For example, took until this year for Microsoft to finally make calculator uninstallable and I trust concerned took a long time to work its way of course. >> Yeah, and Corey, I think everyone is listening to what you've been saying about what Google's doing with Google Meet and forcing that us when we make our pieces there. So definitely there's some things that Google culture, we'd love them to clean up. And that's one of the things that's really held back Google's enterprise budget is that advertised advertising driven culture. So we will see. We are working hand-- >> That was already opted out of Hangouts, how do we fix it? We call it something else that they haven't opted out of yet. >> Hey, but Corey, I know you're looking forward to at least two months of weekly Google live stuff starting this summer. So we'll have a lot of time to talk about google. >> Let's not kid ourselves they're going to cancel it halfway through. (Stu laughs) >> Boys, I thought we didn't have any more smack talk left in you but clearly you do. So, all right, moving on. Next slide. This is the last question that we did in the main part of the debate. IBM Cloud. What about IBM Cloud was the question, Stu, you were pro, Corey you were con. Corey, you won this one again with 62% of the vote and for the main. >> It wasn't just me, IBM Cloud also won. The problem is that competition was oxymoron of the day. >> I don't know Rachel, I thought this one had a real shot as to putting where IBM fits. I thought we had a good discussion there. It seemed like some of the early voting was going my way but it just went otherwise. >> It did. We had some last minute swings in these polls. They were going one direction they rapidly swung another it's a fickle crowd today. So right now we've got Corey with three points Stu with one but really the lightning round anyone's game. They got very close here. The next question, lightning round question one, was "Game of Thrones" who deserves to sit on the Iron Throne? Stu was arguing for Jon Snow, Corey was arguing for Sansa Stark also Corey has never seen Game of Thrones. This was shockingly close with Stu at 51.5% of the vote took the crown on this King of the North Stu. >> Well, I'm thrilled and excited that King of the North pulled things out because it would have been just a complete embarrassment if I lost to Corey on this question. >> It would. >> It was the right answer, and as you said, he had no idea what he's talking about, which, unfortunately is how he is on most of the rest of it. You just don't realize that he doesn't know what he's talking about. 'Cause he uses all those fast words and discussion points. >> Well, thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. Now, I am completely crestfallen as to the results of this question about a thing I've never seen and could not possibly care less about not going in my favor. I will someday managed to get over this. >> I'm glad you can really pull yourself together and keep on going with life, Corey it's inspiring. All right, next question. Was the lightning round question two is a hot dog a sandwich? Stu, you were arguing yes. Corey, you were arguing no. Corey landslide, you won this 75% of the vote. >> It all comes down to customer expectations. >> Yeah. >> Just disappointment. Disappointment. >> All right, next question tabs versus spaces. Another very close one. Stu, what were you arguing for Stu? >> I was voting tabs. >> Tabs, yeah. And Corey, you were arguing spaces. This did not turn out the way I expected. So Stu you lost this by slim margin Corey 53% of the vote. You won with spaces. >> Yep. And I use spaces in my day to day life. So that's a position I can actually believe in. >> See, I thought I was giving you the opposite point of view there. I mistook you for the correct answer, in my opinion, which is tabs. >> Well, it is funnier to stalk me on Twitter and look what I have to there than on GitHub where I just completely commit different kinds of atrocities. So I don't blame you. >> Caught that pun there. All right, the last rounds. Speaking of atrocities, AMI, Amazon Machine Image is it pronounced AMI or AMI? >> I better not have won this one. >> So Stu you were arguing that this is pronounced AMI rhymes with butterfly. Corey, you were arguing that it's pronounced AMI like mommy. Any guesses under who won this? >> It better be Stu. >> It was a 50, 50 split complete tie. So no points to anyone. >> For your complete and utterly failed on this because I should have won in a landslide. My entire argument was based on every discussion you've had on this. So, Corey I think they're just voting for you. So I'm really surprised-- >> I think at this point it shows I'm such a skilled debater that I could have also probably brought you to a standstill taking the position that gravity doesn't exist. >> You're a master of few things, Corey. Usually it's when you were dressed up nicely and I think they like the t-shirt. It's a nice t-shirt but not how we're usually hiding behind the attire. >> Truly >> Well. >> Clothes don't always make a demand. >> Gentlemen, I would like to say overall our winner today with five points is Corey. Congratulations, Corey. >> Thank you very much. It's always a pleasure to mop the floor with you Stu. >> Actually I was going to ask Stu to give the acceptance speech for you, Corey and, Corey, if you could give a few words of concession, >> Oh, that's a different direction. Stu, we'll start with you, I suppose. >> Yeah, well, thank you to the audience. Obviously, you voted for me without really understanding that I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm a loudmouth on Twitter. I just create a bunch of arguments out there. I'm influential for reasons I don't really understand. But once again, thank you for your votes so much. >> Yeah, it's always unfortunate to wind up losing a discussion with someone and you wouldn't consider it losing 'cause most of the time, my entire shtick is that I sit around and talk to people who know what they're talking about. And I look smart just by osmosis sitting next to them. Video has been rough on me. So I was sort of hoping that I'd be able to parlay that into something approaching a victory. But sadly, that hasn't worked out quite so well. This is just yet another production brought to you by theCube which shut down my original idea of calling it a bunch of squares. (Rachael laughs) >> All right, well, on that note, I would like to say thank you both Stu and Corey. I think we can close out officially the debate, but we can all stick around for a couple more minutes in case any fans have questions for either of them or want to get them-- >> Find us a real life? Yeah. >> Yeah, have a quick Zoom fight. So thanks, everyone, for attending. And thank you Stu, thank you Corey. This has been The Great Cloud Debate.

>>Hi, I'm Peter Burress. And welcome back to know the Cube conversation. This one from B M sees Helix Immersion Day at Santa Clara Marriott in Santa Clara, California. Once again, we've got a great set of topics for today Today, Right now we're gonna talk about is the everybody talks about the explosion in the amount of data, but nobody talks about the resulting or associated explosion in software. And that may in fact, be that an even bigger issue than the explosion and data. Because ultimately, we want to apply that data and get work done. That's gonna require that we rethink service's rethink service management, rethink operations and rethink operations management in the context of how all this new software is gonna create new work but also can perform new classes of work. Soto have that conversation. We've got a couple of great guests. New York. And here is the BMC president of Digital Service is in operations management division to BMC. Welcome back to the Cube. >>Thank you. >>And me Here shoot Close the CEO of Automation anywhere here. Welcome to the Cube. So Naoki, I want to start with you. A year ago, we started on this journey of how this new digital service is is going to evolve to do Maur types of work for people. How has be emcees? Helix Platform evolved in that time. >>So if you remember last time, it's almost a year. Back when we launched Helix, which was all around taking the service management capability that we had on Prem Minute available in cloud continue rise so customers can run and cut of their choice and provided experience through various channels bought as channel off that customer experience. This is what we had released last time. We call it the three C's for Helix, Everything in cloud containerized with cognitive capabilities so customers can transform that experience in this version. What we are extending helix is with the operation side. So although I Tom capabilities that we have in our platform are now a part off Felix, so we have one entering platform so that customers can discover every asset that they have on prominent loud monitor those assets detected anomalies service bought four lines of business and for i t. For immediate issues that happen, vulnerabilities that are there in the system and automatically optimized capacity and cost on holistic. This whole closed loop off operations and service coming together is what this next day off innovations that were launching BMC Helix >>Soma here New York He's talked about very successfully, and Felix has been a very successful platform for improving user experience. But up front, I noted that we're not just talking about human beings as users anymore. We're talking about software is users R p a robotic process. Automation is a central feature of some of these new trends. Tell us a little bit about how robotic process automation is driving an increased need for this kind of digital service in operations management capability? >>Sure think it a high level you have to think of. The new organization has augmented organization that are human and what's working side by side, each doing what they're best at. And so, in a specific example of a service organization, uh, the the BMC hell ex ist Licht Alexis Taking this is Think of this as a utility where the way you plug it into an electricity outlet and switch on the light and you get the electricity, you plug into the BMC helix, and behind it, you have augmented workforce of chat boards are pia bots, human beings each doing what they're best at and giving a far superior customer experience and like any other that is happening now. And that's the future off service industry. >>But when you point a human, so to speak metaphorically into that system, there's a certain amount of time there's a certain amount of training. There's a certain, and as a consequence, you can have a little bit more predictable scale. That doesn't mean that you don't end up with a lot of complexity, but our p A seems that the potential of our P A seems that you're going to increase the rate at which these users, in this case, digital users are going to enter into the system. You don't have a training regimen you can attach to them. They have to be tested. They have to be discovered. You have to be put in operation with reliability. How is that ultimately driving the need for some of these new capabilities? >>I think you if you think of this, if you think of this box as a digital workers, you almost have to go through the same process that you would go through human beings. You onboard them in terms of you, configure them. You trained them with cognitive capabilities and the and then in. The one difference is the monitor themselves. Without any bias they give, they can give you. They can give their own performance rating performance rating card. Um, but the beauty off this is when human and what's work together because there are some functions that the bots can do well. And then at some point they can hand off to the human beings and human beings. Do some of the more interesting work that is based on judgment. Call customer service. All of that, um, so that the combination is is the end goal for everybody >>and to add would be here said right, that customer experience, whether you're providing experience to employees, are consumers and customers. That is the ultimate goal. That's ultimate result of what you want to get and the speed at which you provided experiences, the accuracy of which you provide experience of the cause, that which you provided experience becomes a competitive sensation, which is where all this automation, this augmentation that they're doing with humans and bots is what enables us to do that right for or large enterprise customers May major service organizations trying to transform into that beautiful. >>But increasingly, it seems as though the, uh, the things that we have to do to orchestrate in ministry Maur users digital and human undertaking Maur complex tasks where each is best applied is really driving a lot of new data mentioned upfront, an enormous amount of software and you said new experiences. But those experiences have to be reliable, have to be secure. They have to be predictable. So that suggests this overwhelming impact of all of these capabilities. You talk about a digital tsunami? What are some of the key things? Do you think Enterprise is gonna have to do to start engaging that? >>Yeah, I'm incredibly college 40 nursery revolution. Whether we call our initial transformation, I think what we all are experiencing is the tsunami Texan ami, right, Tsunami of clouds, where you have corruption clouds, private clouds have a close marriage clouds, tsunami of devices, not just more valid visors, but also has everything alone, as is getting connected devices, tsunami of channels. I mean, as an end user, I wantto experience that in the channel of my preference lack as a journalism as a channel tsunami of bots, off conversation, bullets in our Peabody. So in this tsunami, I think what everyone is trying to figure out is, how do they manage this explosion? It's humanly impossible to do it all manually. You have toe augment it. But of course, intelligence, I'm all. But then, of course, boss, become a big part of that augmentation toe. Orchestrate all of them back to back cross. >>I would say that the this is no longer nice to have, because if you look it from over consumer's perspective, last 20 years of digital technologies off from my Amazons and Google's of the World, Netflix and others they have created this mind set off instant customer gratification, and we all been trained for it. So what was acceptable five years ago is no longer acceptable in our own lives, I e. And so this new standard off instant result instant outcome. Instant respond. Instant delivery V. Just expected. Right. Once you're end, consumer begins to do that. We as a business is no longer have a choice that's writing on the wall. And so what? This new platform Zehr doing like you'd be emcee. Hellickson automation anywhere is delivering their instant gratification. And when you think about it, more and more of the new customers that are millennials, they don't know any other way. So for them, this is the only experience they will relate. Oh, so again, this is not nice to see Oh, it is. But it is the only way only the world will operate, right? >>Well, what we're trying to do is take on new classes of customer experience, new operational opportunities to improve our profitability, innovate and find new value propositions. But you mentioned time arrival rate of transaction is no longer predictable. It's gonna be defined by the market, not by your employees. We could go on and on and on with that. What is taught us a little bit about automation anywhere and what automation anywhere is doing to try to ensure that as businesses go off to attend to the complexity creates new value at the same time can introduce simplicity where they could get scale and more automation. >>Sure, you earlier mentioned that with explosion of data came the explosion off applications And what? Let me focus on what problem or permission anywhere solves. If you look at large organizations, they have vast amount of applications, sometimes 408 100 few 1000 what we have seen. What we've been doing historically is using people as a human bridges between this applications. And we have a prettier that way for too long. And that's the world today. >>So humans are the interface >>humans at the bridges between applications and often called the salty air operations. That's the easiest way to describe it. So the what are two mission ever does is it offers this technology platform robotic process automation area in an Arctic split form that integrates all off it together into a seamless automation bought that can go across and with the eye it can make intelligent, intelligent choices. Um, and so now take that Combined with the BMC, Alex, and you have a seamless service platform that can deliver superior experience. >>So we've got now these swivel chair users now being software, which means that we could discover them more easily. We can monitor them more easily, and that feeds. He looks >>absolutely so you know, in our consumer wall, in a day to day life We are used to a certain experience of how we consume data or consume experiences with our TVs and all the channels that experience that we have an identity. Life is what people expect when they walk into the company, right walking to the Enterprise, which every IittIe organization is trying to figure out. How do they get to that level of maturity? So this is what the combination of what we're doing with Felix and automation anywhere brewing's that consumer great experiences into an enterprise >>world. Some here when we think about our p A. We're applying it in interesting and innovative ways, no question about it. But there are certain patterns of success. Give us some visibility into what you are seeing leads to success. And then what's the future of our P? A. How's that gonna involve over the next few years? >>Sure. Um, R P has been deployed across virtually every industry and virtually every department, so there are many ways to get started in All of them are right. But often we find is that you can either start in a central organization where in terror organization is doing everything centrally. It is a great way to get started. But eventually we learned that the Federated Way is the best way to end where hundreds of offices all over the world, if you are especially large organization, each business unit is doing it with I t providing governments and central security and policies and an actual bots running and being implemented all over the world eventually for a large gilt transformation. That is a common pattern we have seen among successful customers. >>And where do you think this is? Houses pattern going to evolve as enterprises gained more familiarity with it, innovating new and interesting ways and his automation anywhere, and others advance the state of the art. Where do you think it's gonna end up? >>The read is going is is I define it as an app store experience or a Google play experience. So if you think about how we operate over mobile devices today, if you want something on your device, you would look for a nap that does that. We're getting to a point where there is bought for everything in a digital worker for everything. So if you need certain job done, you first go to a what store? Uh that is an automation anywhere website. Look for about that. Does something higher or download that Bart. Get the work done and it comes pre built. Like many. There are works with BMC Felix on many of those, So s. So that is your 1st 1st way you will look, look for getting your work done in a new body economy. And if it if there's no but available, then you look for other options. It will transform how we work and how we think of >>work. In many respects, it's the gig economy with perfect contractor, and it's that leads to some very in string challenges. Ultimately, we start thinking about service Is so Ni aki based on what me here just talked about. Where does digital service is go as our P A joins other classes of users in creating those new experiences at new Prophet points and new value propositions, >>it becomes a competitive. How you provide that service can become a big competitive sensation for financial institutions. For telcos, which is a service industry, right, you're providing that service and, like two meters point, then the user hits that switch. They expect the light to come on If I'm an end user, that consumer warning a service from my telco provider, all from my, um, financial institution. I expect that service to be instantaneous at the highest accuracy accuracy at which super wide is gonna start driving competitor, official for financial institutions of financial institution Telco two Telco and that So I C companies, differentiating and really surviving are thriving in the long term. >>It's no longer becoming something that's nice to have its jacks or better in business, too. >>That's right. And the demo of the live demo that we saw today was really impressive because it sure that what would have taken a few days to happen now happens in three minutes. Right? It is, which is, which is almost the time it takes to call an uber. You know, when interpreters begin to do work at a pace that what you call an uber that's that's that's the future. Yes, it's here. >>Yes, so do I mean the demo that we do the entire enter and demo to request additional storage and being able to provisional remediating issues that we see predict cost and make it available to the end user develop whoever it is is asking for it in minutes. Alright, which used to take days and days. No, no, no, not to mention sometimes in pixels. >>It's typically done faster at scale, with greater reliability. Greater greater security, Certainly greater predictability, et cetera. All right. Here. Shukla, CEO of automation Anywhere. Yeah. Kenny, our president off the dental Service is and operations management division at BMC. Thanks both of you for being on the Cube. >>Thank you. >>Thank you. >>Once again, I'm Peter Burress and I want to thank you for participating in this cube conversation from Santa Clara Marriott at B M sees helix immersion days until next time.

>> Live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's theCube. Covering AWS Reinforce 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone. Welcome back to the live Cube coverage here in Boston, Massachusetts for AWS, Amazon Web Services Reinforce with their inaugural conference around security, I'm (mumbles). We've got two great guests, from Splunk, Cube alumnis, and also, we do the Cube coverage Dot Conf., their annual conference, Haiyan Song, SVP, General Manager Security Market, Oliver Freidrichs, Vice President of Security Products, formerly with a company you sold to Splunk, doing Security Phantom, which was mentioned in the partner summit, so congratulations. Great to see you guys. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for having us. >> So you guys are a really great example of a company that's been constantly innovating, on top of AWS, as a partner, differentiating, continuing to do business, and been successful. All the talk about Amazon could compete with partners, there's always been that myth. You guys have been operating successfully, got great customers on AWS, now you have the security conference, so now it's like a whole new party for you guys. 'Cause you don't go off to reinvent anymore, certainly, the big event, what do you guys think about all this Reinforce focus? >> First of all, I'm just super impressed. The size, the scale, and the engagement from the ecosystem that they have over here, and I think, you know you mentioned we've been really partnering and being successful. I think the secret is really about, just be very customer-focused. It's about what the customer needs, it's not what does each of us need, and when we have that focus, we know how to partner, we know how to engage. One of the examples that we have here is we're partnering up as the capture the flag exercise and it's powered by Splunk, it's put up by AWS Reinforce, and we wanted to bring the best user engagement, gamification of learning to this audience. >> And there's a demand for a security conference because a new breed, a new generation of engineering and enterprises as they move to DevOps, with security, all those same principals now apply, but the stakes are higher because you got to share data, you got to get the data, it's the data-driven problem. You guys are thinking outside-- I think four years ago at Dot Conf, the cyber security focus front and center, mainstream. >> Very much so. And I think for us, security is a big part of our user conference, too. But we're getting inspirations from this event and how we can further, really implify that message for our customers. But we're just so glad we're part of this, thank you for having us. >> We're glad, big love covering you, big success story. Oliver, I want to get to you on the Phantom. Yesterday it was mentioned in a great demo of the security hub, security hub's the big news here, it's one of their major announcements, what is a security hub? >> Yeah, so security hub, and you're right it was just announced that it reached general availability, which means it's available now to the rest of the world. It's a place to centralize a lot of your security management in AWS. So when you have detections, or Amazon calls them findings, coming from other security servers so they're centralized in security hub, where you can then inspect them, take action, investigate them. And one of the reasons we're here, is we've established an integration with security hub, where you can now take a finding coming from security hub, pull it into Splunk Phantom, and run an automation playbook to be able to, at machine speed, take action on a threat. So typically, you know if you're a human, you're looking at an event, and you're deciding what do I do, well I might want to go an suspend an AMI or go and move that AMI or change the access control group to a different access control group so that AMI can only communicate with a certain protected network if it's infected. Automation lets you do that instantaneously, so if you have an attacker who unfortunately may have gained control of your AMI, this allows you to react immediately, very very quickly to take action in that environment. >> And this is where the holes are in the network, and its administrative errors and (mumbles) sittin' out there that someone just configure it, now they're like, they could be out there, no one knows. >> Exactly. >> Could be just tired, I didn't configure it properly. But you guys were in the demos, I want to get your reaction that, because I was sittin' in the room, they highlighted Phantom in the demo. >> That's right. >> And so that was super important. Talk about that integration. What's actually going on under the covers there. >> Yeah, so at a basic level, we're pulling findings through the security hub API, into the automation platform. And then at that point, a playbook kicks off. And a playbook is basically, think of it as a big if this/then that statement. You see a threat, and you go and take a number of actions. You might go and block a port, you might go an suspend that AMI, you might go and disable a user, but you basically build that logic up based on a known threat, and you decide, here's what I'm going to do when I see this threat, and I'm going to turn that into a codified playbook that you can then run very rapidly. On the back end, we've had to integrate with a dozen other APIs like EC2, S3, Guard Duty and others to be able to take action in the environment as well to remediate threats, like changing the access control list or group on a resource. So it's closing that end-to-end loop. >> Hold on, Dave , one quick question on that followup. Then the SISO came in from Capital One and was off the record with this comment, was not really a sensitive comment, but I want to highlight and your both reaction to this. He says in terms of workforce and talent, mentality, 'cause the question came up about talent and whatnot, he sees a shift from better detection to better alerts, because of some of the demos, and implying, kind of connecting the dots, that the trend is to automate the threat detections the way you guys had demoed with Phantom, and then he was tying it back to, from a resource perspective, it frees his team up to do other things. This is a real trend. You agree with that statement? >> Absolutely. >> What's your thoughts? >> Honestly, we believe that we can be automating up to 90% of the level one analysts. There's a lot of routine route work that's done today in the SOC, and it's unforgiving, nobody wants to be a Tier One analyst, they all want to get promoted or go somewhere else, because it's literally a rat race. >> It's boring and it's repetitive, you just automate it. >> Who wants to do that, so we can automate that, we can free up about 50% of the analysts' time to actually focus on proactive activities, things that actually matter, like hunting, research and other development, writing counter-measures, versus the continually keeping up and drinking from a fire hose. >> So I wonder if we could talk about how Splunk has evolved. You guys started before cloud, which came in 2006 and then really took off later, before the sort of big data craze, and you guys mopped up in big data. You never really use that term in your marketing, but you kind of became the big data leader defacto, you got an IPO with actually relatively, by today's comparisons, small raises, >> Compared to today, yeah, yeah (laughs). >> Incredibly successful story, very capital-efficient. But then the cloud comes in, you mopped up on prem, how would you describe how the cloud has changed your strategy, obviously you go out an acquire companies heavily focused on automation, but how would you describe your cloud strategy and how has that changed Splunk? >> That's a great question. I think the fact that you have so many people here, just tells you that the whole industry is going through this transformation. Not only the digital transformation, the cloud transformation. And I'm glad you mentioned our root, it's all about big data, and nowadays security, in many ways, is actually more about data than anything else. 'Cause the data represents your business, and you protect your data, how do you leverage the data, represents your security strategy. The evolution for us, when you zero that into cloud is, we have really been a very early adopter of cloud, we've been providing cloud services for our customers from the very beginning, at least six years ago when we introduced a product called Storm and we continued to evolve that as the technology evolved, we evolved that with customers. So nowadays you probably know cloud is one of our fastest-growing segments of our business. The technology team has been really innovating, really really fast. How do we take a technology that we built for on-prem, how do we rebuilt it to be cloud-native, to be elastic, to be secure in the new way of DevOps. Those are some of the super exciting things we're doing as a company, and on the security side we're also, how do we help customers secure a hybrid world? 'Cause we truly believe the world going to stay hybrid for a long long time and we have companies like AWS really sort of pioneering and focusing and doing things great for the cloud, we still have a lot of customers who need companies and technologies and solutions like what Splunk bring in to bridge the world. >> I want to get you guys' thoughts on some comments we've had with some SISOs in the past, and I really can't say the names probably, but one of them, she was very adamant around integration. And now when you're dealing with an ecosystem, integration's been a big part of the conversation, and the quote was, on integration, "have APIs and "don't have it suck." And we evaluate peoples' integration based upon the qualities of their APIs. Implying that APIs are an integration point. You guys have a lot of experience with APIs, your thoughts on this importance of integration and the roles that APIs play, because that's, again, feeds automation, again it's a key, central component of the conversations these days. Integration, your reaction to that. >> So, maybe I'll start. I'd say we would not have had the success of Phantom Cyber or the Soar market, if not for having those APIs. 'Cause automation was not a new concept. It's been tried and probably not succeeded for many times, and the reason that we've been experiencing this great adoption and success with Phantom technology is because the availability of APIs. I think the other thing I would just add, I'm sure he has lot of experience in working that, Splunk was always positioned ourself as we want to be the neutral party, to bring everything together. And nowadays we're so glad we're doin' the integration, not only on the data side, which is still important. Bring the data, bring the dark data and shining a light on top of that, but also turning that into action through this type of API integration. >> So good investment, betting on integration years ago. >> Absolutely. >> Early on. >> We also change our culture. We previously say how many apps we have in our Splunk base. Now with Oliver being part of the team, Phantom being part of the portfolio, we say how many apps and how many APIs we had to integrate. That a change of metrics. >> All right, Oliver. It's up to you now. I'm sure you know I know where you stand on this, APIs being, a renaissance of APIs going to the next level, 'cause a lot of new things goin' on with Kubernetes and other things. You've got State now, you got Stateless, which is classic rest APIs, but now you got State data that's going to play a big role. Your thoughts on that, don't make the APIs suck, and we're going to evaluate vendors based upon how good their API is. >> Yeah, I think, look it's a buying decision today. It's a procurement decision whether or not you have open APIs. I think buyers are forcing us as an industry, as vendors, to have APIs that don't suck. We're highly motivated to have APIs that work well. >> That sounds like a t-shirt ready to come out (laughs) >> That's a great idea. >> The Cube API's coming, by the way. >> What does that mean, to have APIs that don't suck? >> So the, a great definition I heard recently was, the API that you use as a vendor to interface with your product should be the same API that customers can use to interface with your product. And if all of a sudden they're different, and you're offering a lesser API to customers, that's when they start sucking. As long as you're eating your own dog food, I think that's a good definition. >> So it's not neutered, it's as robust, and as granular. >> Exactly, exactly. And I think what, 20 years ago there were no APIs in security. To do what we do today, to automate all of this security response techniques that we do today, it wasn't even possible. We had to get to a certain level of API availability to even get to this stage. And today, again, unless, if you're a black box, people aren't going to buy your product anymore. >> Yeah, so, again, go the next level is visibility's another topic. So if you open the APIs up, the data's gettin' better, so therefore you can automate the level one alert, threat detections, move people up to better alerting, better creativity, then begs the question, at what point does the visibility increase? What has to happen in the industry to have that total shared environment around data sharing, because open APIs implies sharing of data. Where visibility could be benefited greatly . >> Yeah, I think visibility is really the key. You can't measure what you can't, you can't manage what you can't measure, and you can't, you have to see everything in your environment, your assets, users, devices, and all of your data. So visibility is essential. And it comes in a number of forms. One is getting access to your policy data, your configuration data, seeing how are my things configured? What assets do I have? Where are my S3 buckets? How many AMIs do I have? Who owns them? How many accounts do I have? I think that was one of the challenges before, probably the last three to four years, before that period, enterprises were setting up a lot of these shadow cloud environments, 'cause you could buy Amazon with your credit card, essentially. So that was one of the problems that we would see in the enterprise, when a developer would go and create their own Amazon environment. So getting visibility into that is really been a big advancement in the last few years. Finding those things. >> The birth of multi-cloud. Go ahead John. >> Doesn't make it easier. >> We were talking earlier in our intro Dave and I on the keynote analysis around you can configure it, you can secure it, and then we were riffing on the DevOps movement, which essentially decimated the configuration management landscape. Which was at that time a provisioning issue around developers. They'd have to essentially stand up and manage the network, and go and make sure the ports are all there, and they got load balances are in place, and that was a developer's job. Infrastructure as code took that away. That was a major bottom, hierarchical needs, that was the lowest need. Now with security, if DevOps can take away the configuration management and infrastructure as code, it's time for security to take away a lot of the configuration or security provisioning, if you will. So the question is, what are some of those security provisioning, heavy liftings, tasks that are going to be taken away when developers don't have to worry about security? So as this continues with cloud native, it becomes security native. As a developer, and I don't want to get in and start configuring stuff. I want the security team to magically, security as code, as Dave said. Where are we on that? What's your guys' thoughts on getting to that point? Is it coming soon? Is it here now? What are some of those provisioning tasks that are going to be automated away? >> I think we made a lot of progress in that area already. The ability to simply configure your environment, that Amazon has continued to add layers of check boxes and compliance that allow you to configure the environment far more seamlessly than having to go down into the granular access control list and defining a granular access control policy on your network ports or AMIs, for example. So I think the simplification of that has improved pretty dramatically. And even some of the announcements today in terms of adding more capabilities to do that. Encryption by default. I don't have to go configure my encryption on my data at rest. It's there. And I don't even have to think about it. So if someone steals a physical hard drive, which is very difficult to begin with, out of an Amazon data center, my data's encrypted, and nobody can get access to that. I don't even have to worry about that. So that's one of the benefits that I think the cloud adds, is there's a lot of default security built in that ends up normalizing security and actually making the cloud far more secure than traditional corporate environments and data centers. >> Well I still think you have to opt in, though. Isn't that what I heard? >> Opt in, yes. I would just add to that, I think it's like a rising tides. So the cloud is making lot of the infrastructure side more secure, more native, and then that means we need to pay more attention to the upper level applications and APIs, and identities, and access controls. I think the security team continue to have lot of jobs. Even yesterday they said well, not only we need to do what we need to do to secure the AWS, we also now get involved in every decision, all the other compa-- you know, like functions are doing, taking new sort of SASS services. So I guess message is the security professional continue to have jobs, and your job going to be more and more sophisticated, but more and more relevant to the business, so that I think is the change. >> So question. Oliver, you described what a good API experience is, from a customer perspective, Haiyan, you talked about hybrid. Can you compare the on prem experience with the cloud experience for your customers and how and they coming together? >> You want me to try that first? >> Sure. >> Okay. So, I think lot of the things that people have learned to protect or defend, or do detection response in the on prem world, is still very relevant in the cloud world. It's just the cloud world, I think it's just now really transforming to become more DevOps-centric. How you should design security from the get-go, versus in the on prem world was more okay, let's try to figure out how to monitor this thing, because we didn't really give lot of thoughts to security at the very beginning. So I think that is probably the biggest sort of mentality or paradigm shift, but on the other hand, people don't go and just flip into one side versus the other, and they still need to have a way of connecting what's happening in the current world, the current business, the one that's bring home the bacon, to the new world that's going to bring home the bacon in the future. So they're both really important for them. And I think having a technology as AWS and their whole ecosystem, that all embracing that hybrid world and ecosystem plate no one sort of single vendor going to do all of them, and pick the right solutions to do what you do. So in security, I think it's, you going to continue to evolve, to become more, when the security's built in, what is the rising tide that's going to dictate the rest of the security vendors do. You cannot just think as 10 years ago, five years ago, even two years ago. >> So that bolt-on mentality in the first decade of the millennium was a boon for Splunk. It was beautiful. 'Cause we got to figure out what happened, and you provided the data to show that. How does Splunk differentiate from all the guys that are saying "oh yeah, Splunk, they're on prem, we're the cloud guys." What's your story there? >> Our story is you can't really sort of secure something if you don't have experience yourself. Splunk cloud is probably one of the top, say 10 customers of AWS. We live in the cloud, we experience the cloud, we use the word drink, you know, like eat our own dog food, we like to say we drink our own champagne, if you will, so that's really driving lot of our technology development and understanding the market and really built that into our data platform, build that into our monitoring capabilities, and build that into the new technologies. How, you know, it's all about streaming, it's not about just somebody sending you information. It's about, in a hybrid world, how do you do it in a way that you, we have a term called the distributed data fabric search, because data is never going to be in one place, or even sort of in one cloud. How do we enable that access so you can get value? From a security perspective, how do we integrate with companies and solutions that's so native into the cloud, so you have the visibility not and the Bodong, but from the very beginning. >> So you're saying that cloud is not magic for a software company, it's commitment and it's a cultural mindset. >> Absolutely. >> Guys, thanks so much for comin' on, great to see you, we'll see you at Dot Conf, the Cube will be there this year again, I think for the seventh straight year. Oliver, congratulations on your product success, and mention as part of the AWS security hub presentation. >> Thank you. >> Good stuff from Splunk. Splunk is inside the Cube, explaining, extracting the signal from the noise, from one of the market-leading companies in the data business, now cyber security, I'm with (mumbles), we'll be back with more Cube coverage after this short break. (techno music)

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE, covering KubeCon + CloudNativeCon Europe 2019. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, and ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to Barcelona, Spain, this is theCUBE's live coverage of KubeCon, CloudNativeCon, 2019. 7,700 people in attendance, including myself, Stu Miniman, and co-host Corey Quinn, and returning to the program, Abby Fuller, who is the principal container czarina (Abby laughs) at Amazon Web Services. Yeah, Abby, I could say it without laughing, but, uh-- >> I can't. >> I don't think you can. Yeah, so, you know, let's just, czarina? You know, how does one, you know, become a czarina in their career, Abby? Let's start there. >> You ask Deepak really nicely, and he'll change your title for you. Longer answer, I think I'm doing a similar version of what I've always done for Amazon. Which is, how can I get what customers are asking for, and their feedback, and what they're struggling with, they're working on, or enjoying? Taking that back to our internal product development process, and then doing the same thing back the other way. So if we're building something, how can I help educate customers on how to work with it, and how to use it, how to build with it? So, same thing, just funnier title. >> All right, well, Abby, you know, it's a big, cloud show, so of course we know Amazon will be here. Lot's of developers here at the show, lot's of activity. Yesterday AWS held a, kind of, pre-show workshop. Maybe start there, tell us a little bit about that. >> Yeah, so we had AWS Container Day, maybe five or six hundred people, we did it at the hotel that is allegedly across the street, but is really, like, twenty five minute walk away. We did some workshops, we did a Birds of a Feather session at night. We had a little, mini, product preview announcement, so that was pretty fun. Something called, Container Insights, from CloudWatch team. I think my favorite thing about KubeCon is my favorite thing about the Kubernetes community, right, which is that, everyone is so happy to be here. They're all so enthusiastic. I've never had that many questions at a Birds of a Feather session before. We sent a ton of Amazon people here, to, kind of, talk about EKS, and Kubernetes, and community work. And the energy at the KubeCon is always so impressive. >> Give us a little sampling, you know, there's passion, is there questions? Are they trying to understand the various pieces? Are they excited about some of the new features? What's some of the energy you're capturing? >> Yeah, you know, I think it's both. I think on the EKS side, there's always the balance, right, in the Kubernetes community between, how can I have more power and flexibility? And then, how can you carry pager for more of this? So I think it's always an interesting balance, between the folks that are like, hmm, do you think you could manage that for me as well? And the folks that are like, I want to be able to pass in control plain flags. So, there's always an interesting balance. A lot of questions about version upgrades. I think that one is always, always seems to be top of mind, 'cause the Kubernetes community moves so fast. So, compared to a lot of other products, and how quickly they can release new versions, Kubernetes moves so fast. So, if you don't have a good upgrade strategy, you're in trouble. So-- >> Well, to that point, yesterday during the talk, there was a slide that went up, that listed, over the trailing 12 months, that there were 1,900 and change major service and feature releases. And that's very much a two edged sword, sitting in the audience, 'cause on the one hand, yay, the pace of innovation continues to increase, and services are getting better all the time. On the other, it's one of those, hmm, at least four of those would have been critically important, but I may not know about them. And to that end, something that the container group seems to have done, that almost no one else has, has been to put up a public roadmap of what's coming down the pike. Which has been tremendously helpful for customers, as far as being able to plan things out. How did that come to be? >> A lot of talking. I think, ultimately, right, all teams at AWS work the same way. Which is, backwards from what the customer is asking for. So, we have a lot of customer meetings. We have a lot of customer conversations, we talk to a lot of people. I do a lot with that on social media, or at conferences, or with blogs, or with live streaming. But ultimately, at the root of it, we all follow the same process. And I think the roadmap is really an extension of that. It's, how could we get, both what we're working on, to customers a little bit faster, but also, how can you have a voice that we hear so much more loudly? So, right? That you can be the smallest start up, or the largest enterprise, and you can open a GitHub issue just the same. And say, hey, you know, I'd really like to see you do that. And, I think the other piece of it, is that everyone has an AWS story. Where they build something custom, to work around something, or to add a feature, and then six weeks later we're like, we shipped it! And that's awesome, it's a good problem to have, and being able to delete code is one of everyone's favorite problems, I think. It's my favorite problem. >> It's one of life's true joys. >> It is one of life's true joys. (Corey laughs) But, what I think is even better than that, is a little bit of a heads up. And I think that that really builds trust between us and the community, is, how can we let you know we're working on, so you can plan around it? Or, if you don't see something, let us know that we're not thinking about the things that you value. >> Well, So Abby, you know, we've been at the Amazon shows for a number of years-- >> Yeah. >> And that customer feedback loop is something that we hear a lot. >> Yeah. >> Are there any dynamics about, just being in a big, open source community here, is, you know, just listening, and feedback loops as part of that? So, how does that impact, you know, how you work on things? >> Yeah, so, when we do events like this, I try to talk to as many people as possible. I try to listen in to the conversations, when I can. People come by the booth, they come by the meeting rooms. And I think it's about taking that back from all the different sources that were at the conference, the reviews online, the blog posts that people write after this, coverage like theCUBE, taking that all back, and then let's go through it. And then, how many of these things do we know about? Have a lot of people asked us for this? Is this something new? If it is new, how can we go find other people to talk to, to see who else is having that problem, that maybe we just didn't know to ask about before? So it's all part of that same working backwards process, but feedback comes from so many different places, and I think that, that ultimately is what makes it cool, right? It's because you get different feedback at a KubeCon than you will at a re:Invent, than you will on a Twitter, or that you will at a customer meeting. So, you need all of those sources to kind of figure out, what's more important? And, who is it important to? >> Yeah, one of the things that I find fascinating about the entire AWS Container story is, you almost get to decide your own level of involvement. You can run it all yourself, on top of EC2, you can wind up doing one of the manage serves with ECS, or EKS. And then there's Fargate, which I'm very bullish on for the future, if for no other reason that, if that takes over, suddenly we will never have to hear someone from Amazon mispronounce AMI, ever again. Which, I'll take my victories where I can find them. (Abby laughs) But, what are you seeing customers doing with Fargate? What's the paradigm look like, that's different than you might have expected at launch? >> Yeah, so, the way that I ultimately think about Fargate, right, is as a, it's a capacity provider for EC2. So, when you think about, kind of, the levels of control, right? You start at maybe the orchestrator level, so an ECS or an EKS. And if you're using ECS through Fargate, you're not interacting directly with EC2. So it's about, how can I control and define everything at just the container level, just at the task definition level, without having to think about the underlying EC2 instances? And they're still there, before someone tells me that serverless still has servers. But, you're not the one that's actively managing them. We're managing them on your behalf. All you care about is your workload itself. And then you can go a step deeper than that, and say, you know what, I want control over those EC2 instances. I want to manage them myself, maybe I want to do something in user data, or I want to be able to run DaemonSets myself, on the underlying infrastructure, and that's fine. So, I think it's ultimately about the level of control that you want. Fargate, to me, is interesting because it's like Lambda, in the sense that people have seemed very joyful about not having to manage EC2. Because ultimately, that's not what's providing them business value. That's not what let's them differentiate, and I think the way that Werner puts it is, you want everything that you write to be business logic. And I think with things like Lambda and Fargate, it gets you one step closer to that. That instead of having to manage infrastructure, to then manage your code, it's, just manage my code, please figure out the rest of it for me. >> This is borderline heresy in some circles, so don't, at me. (Abby laughs) But, what I'm wondering is, are things like containers, and functions as a service, aligned longer term, on the same axis? At some point, where it just becomes an implementation detail, and not a battle that needs to be fought. >> Yeah, the way that we think about it, right, is that, and I think the way that customers see it, is that serverless is ultimately a spectrum. There are many different flavors of it, depends on how you kind of want to work with it. But ultimately, I think, even longer term, maybe this is even more heretical, right? But, I want to not care. I don't want to have to care about the primitive that you're using. I don't want you to have to choose. And right now, I think you have to choose, regardless of the tool that you're using, you must choose very early. And to take advantage of a new tool, to go from containers, to Lambda, or whatever else you want to use, you have to re-write. Or you have to rebuild, or you have to re-wrap what you're doing. And I want to get to a point where you don't care. That I can use whatever combination of the below that I want to use, and that AWS will provide tools around that, that just says, you run this however you want. You mix and match whatever flavors you like, and we'll take care of it. >> Yeah, it's interesting, almost every time we've done one of these Kubernetes shows, we've had somebody from Amazon on, and even if we haven't had an AWS employee, almost every customer we have on is doing some, if not a lot of Amazon. There's some out there that look, and they're like, well, Amazon doesn't have the biggest booth, and Amazon has all of these different choices out there, so they must not be fully committed to, you know, capitol K, Kubernetes, and things like that. How can you help us understand what's going on? >> Yeah, so, I think Bob Wise, and his team spent a ton of time working on the community, and the whole team does, right? We're one of the biggest contributors to etcd, we're hosting Birds of a Feather. We've contributed back to a fair amount of community projects, and I think a lot of them are, in fact, around how to just make Kubernetes work better on AWS. And that might be something that we built because, EKS. Or, it might be something like Cluster Autoscaler, right? Which, ultimately, people would like to work better with Auto Scaling groups. So, I think we have the community involvement, but, I think it's about having a quiet community involvement, right? That, it's about chopping wood, and carrying water, and being present, and committing, and showing up, and having experts, and answering questions, and being present in things like SIG groups, than it is, necessarily, having the biggest booth. >> Yeah, I mean, from my perspective, at conferences, across the board, community involvement can never be measured by who spends enough money on the conference to have a booth large enough to play ice hockey in. That doesn't really seem to be as good of a barometer. Things like the roadmap, tend to be a spectacular, I guess, expression of how that engagement is starting to look. And I really am enthusiastic to see what's been done so far, and I'm looking forward to seeing more of it. >> Well thank you, I'm really proud of the roadmap. It's been so interesting to see customers take a, kind of, a new level of transparency, for us, product roadmap wise. And then, I love seeing people go through, and start adding more. So, I feel like the roadmap started to feel successful to me when customers started opening a ton of issues, and saying, hey, have you thought about this? Our new thing is, we've been posting requests for comments, or design docs on there, and saying, you know, we're thinking about building this, and here's what we were thinking about building. Did the way that we built this solve the problem that you're trying to solve? 'Cause ultimately, you can build the coolest thing in the world, and if it doesn't solve problems for your customers, what's the point? >> Yeah, and Abby, I'll reiterate that the roadmap was something that, you know, the ecosystem, the community, was very excited about. What other things did you want to share before we wrap? You know, things at the show, or related to the container space that, you know, you're hearing your customers talking, and asking a lot about. >> Yeah, so I've heard great things about all the sessions. I think that I'm a little biased, 'cause I was on the program committee. So, obviously the selection was universally excellent. Yeah, I think, what I like the most, I think, about events like this, is that everyone seems to have a different way of solving things. They're all asking for something new. They're all talking about a different project. They're all in different SIG groups. They're all making different feature requests. They're all using different tools. I think that that's really powerful, and I think was what's made Kubernetes so amazing, is that, the whole community feels like this. This is a huge turn out for a conference, and everyone feels very, like, actively engaged. And I like seeing us, kind of, push the boundaries, right? Between, how much can I pass off to something like EKS? And then, how much can I keep customizing, but on only the things that matter to me? >> I guess, as you're talking about roadmap, and plans for the future, if I were to build an environment on AWS, going back, let's say a decade-ish, I would have built something in a single AWS account, using EC2 classic, and maybe simple DB, as a data store. Which, generally, is in no way aligned with best practices today, and migrating off of those types of architectures, for some customers, has been painful. Is there any way to, I guess, loosen the abstraction, for lack of a better term? Of, what, the things we can do, and build in a forward looking way today, that will make migrating to whatever best practices emerge from the customer learnings, or the rest, in the future, not be the equivalent of an entire migration? >> Yeah, so, I think what you're asking, right, is, how can I make, kind of, adopting new technologies, or migrating, a little bit easier? >> Yeah. Or even, adopting new patterns. >> That's a really interesting one. Yeah. I think where I see this space kind of going, and where I think it gets interesting to me, is thinks like App Mesh. So, I can have many different kinds of compute inside of a mesh, through App Mesh, right? So I can have an application running on EC2, I can have a container running with EKS, or ECS, I can have Kubernetes on EC2. In the fullness of time, I'd love to see things like Lambda functions inside an App Mesh. What I like about that, is that, how that can make the migration process easier. Because if I can have many types of primitives in the same mesh, I can mix and match, or I can drain traffic off from one to the other, and I can experiment a little bit more without having to re-write, 'cause I can try it out. It can be part of the same mesh, and if I want to move, I can just move more stuff over. So, I think that's interesting, and I think, as for, kind of, the best practices, and stuff like that, we evolve hand in hand with our customers. As our customers are figuring out new technologies that they want to use, or new ways of building things, we want to be right there with them. And I think the AWS way is about, how can we help customers build whatever way they want to do, but help them be secure, reliable and scalable. >> Yeah. What I'm hearing from that, as a take away, is, if I'm not playing around with service mesh's, or app mesh's now, it's probably time to fix that, and learn how they work. >> I think it's a new technology. I think it's an interesting one, I'm excited to see where it goes, but, watching it, kind of, grow along with Kubernetes, has been really interesting. >> All right, well Abby Fuller, thanks so much for joining again on theCUBE. >> Thanks for having me. >> For Corey Quinn, I'm Stu Miniman, you're watching KubeCon, CloudNativeCon 2019, in Barcelona, Spain, thanks for watching theCUBE. (futuristic music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCube covering Dell Technologies world 2019 brought to you by Dell Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Good afternoon and welcome back to theCube day three of our live coverage of Dell Technologies World 2019, I'm Lisa Martin with my co-host Dave Vellante. Hey, Dave. >> Hey, Lisa, how's it going? >> Good. Day three. >> It's cold here. >> It's cold in here. I agree. But we're going to lighten it up with some really good conversation. We've got Rob Emsley back on thCube, Director of Product Marketing for data protection, Dell EMC, Rob, great to have you back. >> Great to be back. >> We got show and tell you brought Adam Schmitt network architect from customer GEI consultants. Welcome, Adam. >> Thank you-- >> Time to heat it up. >> What a great topic he's out with data protection. >> It's a hot topic. You're right. All right. So before we turn the way up on the seat, Adam, give us an overview of GEI Consultants who you guys are, what you do. >> Sure, GEI consultants is an environmental water resources, structural an engineering firm, we focus on anything and everything under the sun from structural geotechnical, bio chemical, you know, pretty much anything and everything engineering. >> So important stuff. Talk to us about before you were using working with Dell EMC, talk to us about your, your infrastructure, on prem, hybrid, what were you doing in terms of ensuring that that data was protected was accessible, so insights can be extracted from it? >> Absolutely. So GEI has 43 offices East to West Coast, and each of those offices has their own actual infrastructure that we have to protect at each site, ranging anywhere between three to 15 terabytes of size. So we're talking a lot of data and a lot of different geographical locations that I as a network architect had to worry about protecting, and one of the challenges of our older infrastructure, we were running 40 servers, just doing file level backups and restores, and we didn't have the ability to do any offline site backups in any locations. Now, we did have those in our primary data centers, and we were able to cross backup from each location to another when necessary, but it was, again, only a file level backup, it wasn't an actual full image, and we didn't have a full cloud picture yet that we could expand on going forward. >> So not a really robust data disaster recovery strategy in the event that you had to get something like that. >> It took several times and there are examples that I could give you office lost hardware in their actual infrastructure and we had to do a restore by restoring the files out an off site location, putting it on a USB hard drive and shipping it to that location, and then having to rebuild the infrastructure from the ground up and copy the data over not a timely manner of free storage. >> Or inexpensive. >> Robin, in the old days, you'd have an admin in the remote office, they load in a tape and it did recycle the tape every day, you know, you'd have it for a week, and then you'd reuse the same tape over and over again. That was the architecture, state of the art back then. >> Yeah, you probably remember something for those ads, there was a picture of a slightly undesirable individual and says, would you like this person to be your backup admin, which I thought was a little bit strange. But now I think things have moved on a little bit. >> What's the architecture look like today? >> Well, you know, one of the things in architecture is a very key word, because we have a belief in a saying that architecture matters, and when you have a distributed network, where you have lots of edge locations, and you have the requirement to protect them, and bring them back to the edge, the architecture that you deploy, really does make a difference. You know, there's a famous Star Trek line, I've heard it a few times this week that you cannot change the laws of Physics, and the amount of data that you move from the edge to the core, you want to make it as small as possible because if you don't, the amount of time that it takes to get data protected from the edge, especially you have lots of edges becomes a real constraint. So that was something which you know, GEI was able to take advantage of. >> So can you do that at speed? Doesn't that change the laws of Physics anyway? We don't go there, okay, so I wonder if you could share with us kind of how you came to this spot? What was life like before? Did you look at any other vendors, you know, paint the picture for us. >> So working with the Dell EMC technical team, as well as the DPS sales team, we were able to come up with a different strategy going forward. But it wasn't after a lot of trial and error when doing proof of concepts with other companies that, you know, made promises that they could do the backups that we needed off site at different locations geographically, but when it came down to it, we were going to have to fork up a lot of money for infrastructure being installed at every single location, whereas Dell EMC, I don't have to deploy any or any hardware, all I had to deploy was a virtual appliance at each location and we were successful in backing up remotely, we tried various technologies that claim that they could do it, and they didn't work successfully. So after a lot of trial and error, roughly, in total about a year's worth of trying, we finally got Dell EMCs technical team and the DPS came on board and we sat down in front of a whiteboard in Boston, Massachusetts, and said, this is what we're trying to paint as a picture, help me paint this as a full blown architecture and make this happen in this design fashion, and luckily, the Dell EMC team was so experienced and has so many different strategies that they can focus on, they were able to take every little thing that we needed, mark every checkbox and deliver a package with DPS for our solution in our own architecture that answered all of my questions instantly. >> You said virtual appliance it's got to run on something. So what is that actually? It's like serverless, right? >> So we have a physical infrastructure at every location, I deployed a virtual CentOS box, that's proxy that talks back to my data domain and communicates the CVT data changes back for backup. So it's not doing a full consecutive backup. That leaves a lot of headroom left over on your actual production server, so that it's not pegged while staff are using it. So I can kick off backups during the day, it takes a snapshot, and then the data gets backed up without anybody knowing. >> So this is really important as you said, Rob, you can't change the law of Physics. I imagine you got a straw and you got to put all this data through. It's like, it's like when you backup your iPhone for the first time it takes forever now. So you're talking about, you know, changed, just checking the changed data, and putting it through that straw, even though it's maybe a little bigger than a straw, so each day, it's just a smaller amount of data, okay, but what happens on a restore? >> On a restore same instance. So we'll restore that file, if we're doing the file level restore to the data domain, and then copy it wherever we need to on the network. Or if we're doing a full image based backup, we can restore that either to the cloud disaster recovery into AWS or Azure, or we can restore it to the actual data domain and Vmotion it wherever we need to after that point. >> So let's talk about business impact Sounds like there was a lot of trial and error, as you explained, really needing to work with a strategic partner who said all right, I get what you're trying to do, obviously, not easy, but you've been able to implement that. So how is GEI's business positively benefiting from this data protection strategy that you've implemented? >> Well, not just on a financial perspective, because we've eliminated the need for a completely separate off site data center, we have everything running in a cloud environment for CDR, so that we can restore instantly anytime that we need to, so we no longer needed to spend the footprint on another network architect on another infrastructure on all the different things that rely on another infrastructure at a separate location, so on top of financial savings for the company, I mean, we saved a huge amount of money, they're on infrastructure, that's only for disaster recovery, it's not doing anything, whereas we can just spend money on object storage in AWS, and use that as our cloud disaster recovery strategy. When you need it, you pay for it for your instances but otherwise, you're just paying for object storage, it's a lot cheaper than ever having to run a full separate data center. >> Specifically what is Dell's role in that equation in terms of the value chain? >> The data domain, we also got CDR, which allows us to use an appliance on premise to talk to an instance server in AWS or Azure, and it after its normal backup period, the backup completes and then shoots all the data that changed up to AWS in an S3 Bucket, and your data stored there and in a VMDK chunk data, that after need for restore can be turned into an AMI for AWS available, and then online whenever you need it. >> So this is very key, you know, on Tuesday, cloud was a big topic, hybrid cloud reality for the majority of customers and Adam and GEI the leverage of AWS is a great example of what many of our clients are looking to do from their investment in the public cloud. Certainly no GEI today is using AWS as a alternative to having to purchase a secondary disaster recovery site, or having to sign up with a managed service provider that's providing like a co-location service for disaster recovery, so using the public cloud and using the software capabilities around cloud disaster recovery, gives them a tremendous opportunity to save themselves a lot of money and do it very efficiently. >> It's like though friends don't let friends build data centers just for DR. Yeah, if you're going to build it for something that gives you a competitive advantage, okay. >> But it's interesting with some of the plans that Adam's got for the future, you know, you want to share some of those as far as what you're thinking about for the next few years. >> So future plans for GEI is definitely more cloud growth and minimizing the footprint that we have on premise, making it so that we don't have to have infrastructure at every location, consolidation of all of our data, obviously, going forward, GEI is going to continue growing with data, with videos that were modeling for different damn inspections, levy inspections, we're collecting a lot of data. But the problem is having that data geographically everywhere makes it challenging for future admins, including myself to continue to restore and backup and keep everybody happy. It's a really challenging task to continue supporting. So going forward with consolidating all that data into a central location, i.e. multi cloud environments, or Dell EMC cloud that was announced this week, we have the option for leveraging multi cloud instances, and being able to keep all of our instances alive in the cloud, rather than on premise. >> So you said put it on one location you talking physically or is it some kind of logical mapping that you're doing? >> There'll be logical mapping with some type of caching technology at the off site so that it's ready and available-- >> So a mapping that allows you to recover really fast if you need to, what about as part of that future in the roadmap, analytics on that of backup data? >> So the analytics on in terms of how much backups are going on on a nightly basis-- >> So specifically, are you using that corporate for any other reason? Well, let's see, might be looking at anomalous behavior, doing stuff with with air gaps, and you know, investigating that other DevOps activities. >> It's interesting that you say that because we were talking about a Data Domain having an air gap last night, at an event and the air gap method, making sure that your data domain is protected, it puts it in a right only mode, so that nobody can get into your data domain and actually do any damage to your data. Because you're right, you're backing out. There are anomalies that happen. If those anomalies happen to get into your infrastructure into your data backups, you could technically get ransomware or you know, locked out of your own data. Whereas Data Domain does support air gap technology, allowing you to lock down the system and require two admins before any changes are made to it. So definitely going-- >> Read only, read only. >> I think I heard that. But it's it's a good question with respect to data reuse is that, you know, the use case that Adam is currently using is to use AWS as a disaster recovery location, but the ability to spin up his data within AWS, yes, for the purpose of insurance, being able to access those production copies within AWS. But why not be able to use those for other purposes, such as interrogation of the data that was in them? That's all things that really start to evolve the conversation from what do you do for data protection to what do you do for data management? >> Yeah, so let's use some of the tool chains in live in AWS, say for example, apply some machine intelligence and machine learning and see what we find there, maybe anticipate anomalies or find some things that we didn't know. >> Absolutely, especially when users are dumping large amounts of data, we had an instance where before we started to actually seeing large data dumps when our data started to grow in the first place, we were inspecting levees and models in Colorado, and we had three engineers fill up an entire server of 4k videos, and our nightly backup all of a sudden said, Hey, you just got a huge amount of data change in an instant. Were you expecting this kind of change? If not, you should probably start knocking on someone's door, so we were able to use that analysis really quickly. >> So looking at day three of Dell Technologies World lots of announcements, Robbie, you kind of talked about some of those, you know, cloud enabled data protection becoming a big focus for you guys, I'm curious, Adam, to get your thoughts on some of the announcements. You mentioned the VMware on Dell, a cloud on Dell EMC, what are some things that really kind of piqued your interest as, hey, we're going to have more and more data coming, we've got lots of edge devices, they talked yesterday about the edges coming what did you hear that you thought, awesome, this is really going to be integral part of our strategy going forward? >> Definitely, so one thing that was mentioned was Power Protect, and that has everybody's interest right now. Because having the ability of basically an Avamar system with all flash or a Data Domain with all flash gives you obvious IO advantages in the future, that's probably going to be my next hot topic that I'm very vigorously researching everything out to see if in a couple of years or sooner that's going to fit into GEI's infrastructure and give us more benefits going forward. >> What's your biggest data protection challenge in 2019? >> Our biggest challenge up front was definitely moving from one backup strategy to a new backup strategy and that's from file level backups, only to image based backups, that was one of the biggest challenges, because anytime you lift a backup infrastructure out of production, and put a new one in, you're starting from zero, you can't really start from where you left off, you had to get all of that data, and geographically 43 offices doesn't seem like a lot, but when you're collecting data at all of those locations, that was a challenge, getting everything worked out and getting everything backed up in the first place. >> So you're knocking down that problem. If you're in a private meeting with Rob and his engineering team is there, what's the one thing that he could do to make your life easier? >> One thing he could do to make my life easier-- >> Drop prices-- >> Oh, sorry, then I have nothing else to say. (both laugh) >> Sounds like you-- >> Really, is that what you were going to say? >> So if we could enhance the performance of DD Boost, DD Boost already does a lot of performance benefits for what we do, DD Boost, in essence of what your network performance is, if there was a way of tweaking that on new servers, when you implement it, for example, we acquire companies every now and then we're implementing their strategies for their backups, and we have to start new backups, if there was a better methodology of seeding rather than having to go out physically plug in a hard drive and an NFL storage, make a clone of it and transfer it back. If there was a different method of seeding that technology or those backups, that would make things a little bit easier. >> Get on that. >> I mean, nobody can ever have enough performance and then, as Adam said, the big part of the Power Protect announcement yesterday was, you know, the introduction of, you know, the industry's first all-flash purpose built backup appliance with integrated software capabilities, and an all flash, I think, over the coming years is going to get is going to become a definite option for secondary storage workloads, not only for the straight performance of backup and restore speeds, but also for this huge opportunity around data reuse, and I think that you'll start to see more flash appearing in the data center, not just for production systems, but also for secondary workloads and where you're storing copies of production. >> At the end of the day, it sounds like you're probably quite the hero to all those folks that need making sure they have access to that data because that's what is, as we say, it's Michael Dell said it's inexhaustible, it's gold, that's what drives the business forward, that's what allows you to identify new products and new revenue streams. So we'll say congratulations on being an enabler of the business so far, we appreciate you guys sharing what GEI is doing and Rob, we appreciate your insights as well. We thank you for spending some time with us on theCube. >> Thank you very much. >> Oh, our pleasure. For Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCube live, Dell Technologies World 2019 day three of theCubes coverage continues in just a moment. (upbeat music)

(inspirational music) >> Hi everybody, this is, Dave Vellante, from our Palo Alto Cube studios. Welcome to this Cube conversation with two gentlemen from Datrium. Tushar Agarwal is the Director of Product Management, and Sazzala Reddy is the CTO and co-founder of Datrium. We're going to talk about disaster recovery. Disaster recovery has been a nagging problem for organizations and IT organizations for years. It's complex, it's expensive, it's not necessarily reliable, it's very risky to test, and Datrium has announced a product called CloudShift. Now, Datrium is a company who creates sets of data services, particularly for any cloud, and last year introduced a backup in archiving on AWS. We've written about that, we've profiled that. Gentlemen welcome to the Cube, >> Good to see you. >> Thank you. >> Good to be here. >> Thank you (mumbles). >> So tell us about, CloudShift. >> Yeah, sure, great. So if you kind of step back and look at our journey starting with Cloud DVX, which was what we announced last year, our end goal has been to simplify infrastructure for customers and eliminate any access infrastructure that they need, starting with Cloud DVX, which addressed the backup part of it Where the customers do not need to keep a dedicated off-site backup anymore and extending that with CloudShift, which now brings it to a DR context and makes the economics so phenomenal that they don't need to keep a DR site anymore just waiting for a disaster to happen. So, CloudShift, at very beginnings, is a sort of a multi-year journey where we bring the ability to do workload mobility orchestration across an on-premises DVX system to a DVX running in the cloud, leveraging Cloud DVX backups, so that customers can do just-in-time DR. >> Sazzala, I talked earlier about some of problems with DR, and let's talk about what you see. I mean, I've talked to customers who've set up three sites, put in a fireproof box, I mean all kinds of just really difficult challenges and solutions. What are you seeing in, terms of some of the problems and challenges that customers are facing, and how are you addressing this? >> Yeah, so like you said, I don't think I've heard anybody saying my DR plan is awesome. (Laughing) or it works, or I'm enjoying this thing. It's a very fearful situation because when things go down, that's when everyone is watching you, and then that's when the fear comes in, right? So, we built kind of a. We built our service, CloudShift service. It's very easy to use, firstly, step one. And the reason, the other goals, kind of, so, if you click a button, you want to just (mumbles) to some new place, right? But to make that really work well, what are the customers, I mean, if I was a customer, what would I think about? I want the same experience no matter where I moved, right? But it has to be seamlessly like, you know, I don't have to change my tool sets, I have the same operational consistency, that's got number one, and number two is that, does it really work when I click the button, is it going to work? So if you go to Amazon, it'll convert VMs. That's a different experience completely, right? So how do you make that experience be likely foolproof? It will work fundamentally. So we've done lot of things like no conversion of VMs. And the second one is that we have built-in compliance checks. Every half an hour it checks itself to see that the whole plan is compliant. You know that when actually there is a problem it'll actually, the compliance actually has caught the issues before hand. And the third one is that, you can do schedule testing. That you can set up schedules and say know what test it every month for me. So that you know. And test it, give a report to you saying okay it's all this, all looking good for you. So that's kind of things you maybe do to make sure that it's going to be foolproof, guaranteed DR success when you initially have to hit the button. >> Yeah and just to add to that. I think, if you look at a DR equation for a customer it's really two things. I'm paying a lot for it. What can I do to address that problem? And will it work when I need it to work, right? I think it's really fundamentally those two problems. And cloud gives us a great way to address the cost equation because now you got an infrastructure that is truly on tank, can be truly on demand. And so you don't really keep those resources running unless you have to, unless you have a test event or you have the actual DR event. On the will it work when I want it to work, Cloud has typically had a lot of challenges that's a lot of outline, right? You have VMs that are going from a VMware infrastructure to an Amazon infrastructure which means those washing machines now need to be running in a different format. You don't have a simple, single-user interface to manage those two environments where you have an Amazon console at one end and a VMware recenter on the other. And then thirdly, you have this data mobility problem where you don't have the data going across a consistent, common architecture. And so we sort of solve all these problems collectively by making DR just in time because we only spin up those resources when they need to be there in the cloud. There is no VM conversion because we are building this, leveraging the benefits of VMware Cloud in AWS. There is a common single pane of glass to manage this infrastructure. And there is a tremendous amount of speed in data mobility and a tremendous amount of economics in the way that we store that data in a de-duplicated compressed way all the time so it kind of checks off the cost equation and it checks out the fact that it actually works when it needs to work. >> So, let's unpack that a little bit. So normally what I would have is a remote site and that site has resources there. It's got hardware and software and building and infrastructure hopefully far enough away from whether it's an earthquake zone or a hurricane or whatever it is and it sits there as an underutilized asset. Now maybe there's some other things that I can do with it, but if it's my DR site, it's just sitting there as insurance. >> Right. >> That's one problem. >> The other problem is testing, DR testing is oftentimes very risky. A lot of customers we talk to don't want to test because they might fail over and then they go to fail back and oops, there's a problem. And what am I going to do? Am I going to stop running my business? So maybe talk about how you address some of those challenges. >> So I think yes, that's true. We heard people like spent half a million dollars in testing DR and never be able to come back from it. Like that's a lot of money and a lot of (mumbles) and then you can't come back is a completely different business problem. So you know, more than just having the DR site, there's like expanse and maintenance, but the other problem is that when you add something, new workloads, you have to add more work. It would kind of change. It would kind of beget new licenses, get new new other, like you know more and more things. So all of this actually is a fundamental problem but if you go to the cloud, just-in-time on-demand thing is amazing because you are only paying for the backups which is you need to do. If you cannot lose it, there are backups. You need backups fundamentally to be on another site because if ransomware hits you, you need to be able to go back in time so you need copies of deep copies to be in another place. And so the thing about just-in-time DR is that you pay for the backups, sure. It's very cost-effective with us, but you only pay for the services for running your applications for the two weeks you have a problem and then when you're done with it, you're done with paying that. So it's a difference with paying everyday versus paying for insurance. Sometimes insurance pays for those kind of things. It's very cost effective. >> Okay, so I'm paying Datrium for the service. Okay, I get that. And I'm paying a little bit, let's say, for instance it's running on Amazon, a little bit for S3, got to pay for S3 and I'm only paying for the EC2 resource when I'm using that resource. (crosstalk) It's like serverless for DR. >> It actually goes beyond that, Dave, right? >> Actually I like that word that you used. You should probably use that. >> Absolutely because I think it's not just the EC2 part but if you look at a total cost of ownership equation of a data center, right, you're looking at networking, you're looking at software, you're looking at compute, you're looking at people managing that infrastructure all the time, you're looking at power cooling and so I think by having this just-in-time data center that gets spun up and you have to do nothing, literally, you just have to click a button. That saves you know a tremendous amount. That's a transformational economics situation right there where you can simply go ahead and eliminate a lot of time, a lot of energy, a lot of costs that customers pay and have to deal with to just keep that DR site running across the board. >> Mm hm. >> Let me give one more savings note. So let's say you had 100 terabytes and you failed over, so when you're done with two weeks' testing, only one terabyte changed. Are you going to bring back everything or are you going to bring only one terabyte? It's a fundamental underlying technology thing. If you don't have dedupe over the wire, you'll bring back everything 100 terabytes. You're going to pay for the digress cost and ultimately it'll be too slow for you to bring it all back. So what you really want is underlying technology which has dedupe over the wire. We call it global dedupe that you can only move back what's changed and it's fast. One terabyte moving there is not that bad, right? Otherwise you'd end up moving everything back which is kind of untenable again. So you have to make all these things happen to make DR really successful in the cloud. >> So you're attacking the latency issues. >> Latency and bestly 100 terabyte moving from one place to the other, it'll take a long time because the vanpipe is only that much and you're paying for the egress cost. >> We always joke the smartest people in Silicon Valley are working on solving the speed of light problem. >> That's right so if you look at data, if you're going to move from one place to the other. First of all, data has gravity, it doesn't want to move, right? So that's one fundamental problem. So how do you build a antigravity device to actually fix that problem, right? So if you leap forward, global dedupe is here where you can transfer only what's changed to the other side. That really defeats light speed, right? And then, both ways, moving it here and moving it there. Without having this van deduplication technology, I think you will be paying a significant amount of time and money, so then it becomes untenable. If you can't really move it fast, then it's like people don't do it anymore. >> And in the typical Datrium fashion, it's just there. It just works. (crosstalk) >> I think that's such a good point, Dave, because if you look at traditional DR solutions today, the challenge is that there are a collection of software and services and hardware from multiple vendors. And that's not such a bad thing. I think the challenge that that causes is the fact that you don't have the ability to do an end-to-end, closed loop verification of your DR plan. You know the DR orchestration software does not know whether the VM that I'm supposed to protect actually has a snapshot on the storage array on which its protecting it, right, and so that, in many ways, leads to a lot of risk to customers and it makes the DR plans very fragile because you know, you set a plan on day one and then let's say three months down the line, you know, something got changed in the system and that wasn't caught by the DR orchestration software because it's unlinked. It doesn't have the same visibility into the actual storage system. The advantage we get with the integrated, built-in backup in DR system is that we can actually verify that the virtual machine that you're supposed to protect actually has all the key ingredients that are needed for a successful DR across the stack as well as in target fader ware site. >> It's kind of the perfect use case, a perfect use case for the cloud and I think, you know, there's something even more here is that because of the complexity of the IT infrastructure around DR and the change management challenges that you talked about, the facilities management challenges that all of the sudden an organization becomes, they're in the DR business and they don't want to be in the DR business. (crosstalk) >> Show no value, I mean, really it's not really adding significantly. It's not improving organization. >> That's actually true and I think the way we have tried to tackle that problem, Dave, is kind of going back to the whole premises of this multi-cloud data services. We will make DR, you know, as simple as possible and what we really enable for them to do is to not have to worry about installing any software, not have to worry about upgrading any software, managing any software. It's a, you know, service that they can just enter their DR plans into. It's very intelligent because it's integrated very well with the DVX system. And they can schedule testing. They don't even have to click a button to actually do a plan failover and in case of an actual event, it's just a single click. It's conveniently checked all the time so you kind of take away a lot of the hassles and a lot of the worry and a lot of the risks and make it truly simple, give them a (mumbles) software as a service experience. >> So I'm kind of racking my brain here. Is there anything out there like this that provides an on-demand DR SaaS? >> I don't know of any actually. >> Yeah, I think, so if you you kind of look at the landscape, Sazzala is right, actually there is none and there a few solutions from leading providers that focus on instantiation of a virtual machine on native AWS, but they don't enter the challenge that they have to convert a virtual machine from a VMware virtual machine to an Amazon AMI and that doesn't always work. Secondly, you know, if you run into that kind of a problem, can you really call it true DR because in case of a DR, you want that virtual machine to come up and run and be a valid environment as against just a test-of-use case. >> So the other one is that backup vendors can't do this. Generally, they traditionally can probably, but I think because they are one day behind, they backup once a day, so you can't do DR if you are one day behind. DR wants to be like, okay, I am five minutes behind, I can recover my stuff, right? And then primary vendors like Pure, for example, like whole flash vendors, they focused on just running it, not about backup, but you need the backups to actually make it successful so that you can go back in time if you have ransomware. So you need a combination of both primary and backup and the ability to have it running in the service in the cloud. That's why you need all these pieces to work together. >> So you talked about ransomware a couple of times. Obviously, DR, ransomware, maybe talk a little bit more about some of the other use cases beyond DR. >> So I think that kind of goes back to why we decided to name this feature CloudShift, right? If you think about a traditional DR solution, you would call it something like DR Orchestrator, right, but that's not really the full vision for this product. DR is one of the very important use cases and we talked about how we do that phenomenally well than other solutions out there but what this solution really enables customers to do is actually look at true workload mobility between on-prem and cloud and look at interesting use cases such as ransomware protection. And the reason why we are so great at ransomware protection is because we are an indicated primary and backup from a restart points perspective and in a ransomware situation, you can't really go back to a restart point that's, you know, a day before or two days before. You really want to go down to as many points as you want and because we have this very efficient way of storing these restart points or snapshots in Cloud DVX, you have the ability to instantiate or run a backup which is from sufficiently long time ago, which gives you a great amount of ransomware protection and it's completely isolated from your on-prem copy of that data. >> Let me add one more point to that. So if you just go beyond the DR case, from a developer perspective, right, from a company perspective, developers want a flexible infrastructure to like try new stuff and try new experiments in terms of building new applications for the business, they can try it in the cloud with our platform. And when they're done, for three months, they'll like, you know, have the, because they figured out okay this is how it's going to work, this is how much (mumbles) I need, it's more elastic there. When they're done testing it, whatever they built it, they can click a button with our CloudShift and move it all back on-prem and then now you kind of have it more secure and in an environment you want to. >> Alright, guys, love to see the evolution of your data services, you know, from backup, now DR, other use cases. Congratulations on CloudShift and thanks for explaining it to us. >> Thank you very much. >> Pleasure being here. >> Okay, thanks for watching, everybody. This is Dave Vellante from our Palo Alto Cube studios. We'll see you next time. (inspiring music)

(techno music) >> Announcer: Live, from the Moscone Center it's theCUBE. Covering AWS Summit, San Francisco 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's exclusive coverage here in San Francisco, I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. This is Amazon Web Services, AWS Summit 2018. We got two great guests, Dave McCann the vice president general manager of AWS Marketplace and Service Catalog and Matthew Scullion is a CEO of Matillion, partner of Marketplace. Guys thanks for coming on good to see you again >> Thank you. >> Thanks for havin' us. >> Alright, so Dave, Marketplace is doing phenomenal, well, we talked with Lew Cirne from New Relic at Reinvent, and was talking about how successful they've been on the Marketplace, so clearly it's working, 170 thousand active customers on stage, we saw the keynote today, What's going on with the Marketplace? Take a minute to explain how the Marketplace is set up now and how it's evolved to this point. >> Thank you, so, great to be back. Can't believe it's four months since Reinvent. So Marketplace is a digital library, of software. You know the cloud is helping our customers innovate faster but you need to be able to innovate with the software not just with the compute and the storage, and so our purpose is to stand up a digital library of software for our customers to subscribe and launch, and we're continuing to grow on multiple dimensions. We've deployed out to all the new standard regions, so we're now up in Korea, we're clearly in LHR so in all the standard regions we've fit Marketplace. And then we continue to expand the library of software, so more and more companies, like a Matillion, publish into the library. We're over 1,300 software companies now, and we're over 4,000 different software titles and you know, our customers show up, they're typically a developer or a manager, with a project with a budget, and they're looking for the best tool that they can keep the project going on schedule. >> And just to make clarification nuances, I know it's commercial and is there a public sector version or is it all one? >> That's a really good question. We actually launched Marketplace last August in our GovCloud Region, so we do actually operate a GovCloud Region for our US government customers and we actually offer a separate Marketplace for the US intelligence agencies. So that's the library of what were doing and we continue tho grow and as Werner said this morning, bunch of new stats. >> The business, the business model obviously people see, um, two things happening. I want to get your reaction to, one is Werner Vogels laid out how services are going to be laid out all over the place and it's not, you know, monolithic as he says. They're all a bunch of services. Scale is a huge factor in enabling that, and also the business model changes are going on, we're seeing people be successful. How are your customers and partners using Marketplace today, how does it work, I mean, do they just call up and say, "Hey! Dave I want to get in the Marketplace." I mean what, I mean, obviously downloading services, enabling services makes sense. How is it working? Like what do they do? Like what's the model? >> So, let's start from the customer and walk backwards. You know Amazon talks about working backwards from the customer. So typically in a company will be a set of developers who are building on us and they'll have a set of architects very often they've a few cloud architects and across the set of software, networking, security, database, dealer analytics, BI, DevOps, all the way to business apps. There'll be a set of architects saying, "What's the best software as we move to the cloud? "Do we bring what we had, or do we buy new?" So the architects are recommending to the developers, "Hey, for your project, here's a good tool." So in the buyer, architects are recommending, and then the developer gets told you can use these vendors. On the seller side of things, software companies like Matillion have to decide "How do we reach the AWS customer?" and then they have to package up their software, put it in our library, and make a bunch of decisions that he can talk about, and then they make it available. >> Yeah Dave it's been interesting to watch kind of the maturation in the Marketplace. It's been large for a number of years but how your partners have changed how they package software, last year there was a discussion that you know, it changed how billing is done, so that Amazon can help make it just seamless for customers, whether they buy service from, you know, AWS or beyond. You know, give us, you used to talk about the customer and the partner, walk us through a little bit of that maturation and how that's that's gone. >> So, we're a six year old service and so we you know we're agile, we keep releasing features. So last year in April, at San Francisco, with Splunk we launched something called SaaS Contracts, which was a new API for SaaS vendors and now we have over 300 SaaS companies in the last year that have developed to that API. So a software vendor can decide they want to deliver as a software package or as an AMI so it could be SaaS or AMI. And we also provision APIs. So we're constantly introducing flexibility on how that vendor can price and package and the more we innovate, the more software companies use our features. >> Yeah, I'm sure you get asked, you know, what's the concern, is there concern, from some of the SaaS players that, "Oh, I'm going to go in there, "I'm going to price and package the way Amazon does, "what's to stop them from just kind of "duplicating what I'm doing and becoming a competitor?" >> You know, that question comes up a lot, and you know look, the software industry is $550 billion. It's growing at 6% a year which is $30 billion and AWS all late last year did about $18 billion. So the software industry is growing by an AWS a year, and the reality is there's so much innovation going on that whatever innovation we're doing, you know, there's lots of room for other software vendors to innovate on top of our stack, 'cause we live in an expanding universe. >> Stu and I always joke, it's like so funny, we look at the, we watch all the cloud, of your competition, you Google Microsoft and Oracle, IBM, whatever, and they all quote numbers. If you factored in the ecosystem, in your number, the cloud revenues would be, I mean trillions. So you know, you guys I know you don't include that, in the numbers and like Microsoft does put Office in there, so it's kind of apples and oranges and so you know, Matthew I want to ask you, 'cause you're a partner. You're doing business on that, so, this is the formula we've been seeing that's been working where, the ecosystem growth, rising tide floats all boats, clearly that's Amazon's strategy. And they're opening up their platform to partners. So talk about what you guys are doing. First, take a minute to explain your company and then talk about your relationship to the Marketplace, and how that's working, and the relationship, how you make money, and the business model behind it. >> Yeah sure, and thanks for the question and for having me. So first of all Matillion, we're a software company, an ISV we make cloud-native data integration technology, purpose-built for this new generation of cloud data warehouses. For us that's Amazon Redshift, it's also Snowflake, and we sell both of those products on the AWS Marketplace, So customers are using us any time when they want to compete with data, so drive product development, or service their customers better, or in fact, become more efficient in the way they run their IT infrastructure. Perhaps migrating an on-premise warehouse into the cloud. So we developed that product through 2014-15, and we were looking for a route to market. Being honest, originally we were going to set it up as a SaaS business, and I saw a pitch from one of Dave's reports, a guy called Barry Russell, talking about AWS marketplace. We're like, okay here's a platform that's going to allow me to deliver my software anywhere in the world to any AWS customer pretty much instantly. More to the point, it's going to deliver my customer a really excellent experience around doing that, from a performance point of view, my software's going to go to go into their VPC sat right next to their data sources, in their Redshift cluster. From a security point of view, that question, very important in data integration, just taken totally off the table, so inside that firewall inside their VPC and of course super convenient and simple to buy. You just access AWS Marketplace, pay with Genuine Cloud Economics by the hour and stand it up pay a few AWS bills. So a really compelling way to deliver the software. >> Was there a technical integration required on your end? I mean like, there's some clients that are born in the cloud Amazon, some are, have built their own stuff. Do you have to, I mean, where are you guys fit into that? One, are you using Amazon? If not, was there any integration piece that you had to do? And if so, what was the level of work required to integrate? >> Yeah, and to be honest, I think this is, you know, the key question on how to be successful selling in this this kind of landscape of public cloud vendor marketplaces and, and the public cloud. So, I mean we're a born on AWS and in fact are born on AWS Marketplace products, and that intersection of product engineering with the route to market, and it's not just the software, it's also the things you surround it with, like great quality content, online support portals, videos, a really great launch experience, that means you're going to be clicked to running our software, commercial-grade ETL tool in under five minutes, free for the first 14 days and then by the hour billing, you know, there's a lot of different angles that go into that and you've absolutely got to be thinking about it. Other people are being successful just kind of sticking their products on the Marketplace and using it just as a billing mechanism but I think for us one of the reasons we've been able to drive great customer resonance and growth, is having that intersection of engineering, content and the Marketplace, together. >> Matthew I wanted have you talk to me a little bit about Matillion, 'cause when I think about kind of customer acquisition, you know Data Warehousing Market's been around for a long time. Redshift's been doing phenomenal, I mean for a while it was the largest, you know, fastest growing product in the AWS you know, portfolio. Being only through the Marketplace, does that, you know, how does that help you get customers, how do they learn about you? Do you ever worry about, like, oh well they just think I'm an Amazon service? Maybe that's a good thing. You know, I'm just curious about kind of that whole go-to-market and relationship with the customers being, you know, super tight, with AWS, you said Snowflake's in there too, so yeah, I'm just curious about that dynamic. >> Yeah, I mean the, the AWS only service thing that historically was a pro and a con. So back in the day we were just Redshift. We're now a couple of other data warehouses as well, you mentioned Snowflake, that's quite right. So that's allowed us to kind of move up the value chain with our customers and give them some choice, which they wanted. Yeah, I think in terms of the go-to-market economics, I mean, we all say this, sometimes its glib, here I think it's authentic. You want to start with what's best for the customer, right. And so we're delivering with genuine cloud economics. Our product starts at $1.37 an hour and yet it'll scale to the world's largest enterprises, and if they don't like it they can turn it off. Typical SaaS products, you're actually signing up for 12 months. So you're not that focused on keeping your customer happy for 11 of those months. Me, I need to keep that customer happy 100% of the time, because he can turn it off any time he likes. >> Yeah, yeah, I always wonder sometimes as an analyst, you know, should it be called a SaaS product if I'm signed into a year or multi-year contract. >> Yeah, so really interesting dynamic of our business is our entire revenue drops by 15% Saturday, Sunday, and it's cause people are turning off dev instances. They come back on Monday morning. Now, as a CEO I could worry about that and say, "Where's my 15% gone Saturday, Sunday?" Actually I'm delighted, 'cause it means my customers are only paying for value they're getting out of the product. >> And then, so about the business model, I wanted to drive into that. I want you to explain and give some color commentary to what your choice was if you didn't have the Marketplace. Hire a sales force? That's going to cost you some money. First you got to find people. >> Yeah. >> Push it to about a thousand customers, run ad campaign. Did you guys do the analysis and say, "Whoa, this is like A,B"? >> Well, so when we launched this product, we were a 12 man company, so I'm not going to say that we rolled in a management consultancy to work that stuff out for us, being honest. But we took a view. I think there have been two big things. First of all, in those very early days when you're trying to find some product market fit, you're trying to find some customers. That global reach instantly delivered by the Marketplace is amazing. So I'm from Manchester UK, apologies for the accent, that's where a good part of our business is still based, although we have offices now in New York and Denver and Seattle as well. If you drill a vertical hole downwards from Manchester, UK, you pop out in Melbourne, Australia that's the first customer we picked up on AWS Marketplace, still a customer today. So in those early guerrilla days, >> No travel, instant global footprint. >> And they were spending money with us before we spoke to them for the first time as well. Now today, we do have a sales force, of course, but it's not a sales force that's closing big deals. They're being value-added, and additive, they are escorting customers through the buying journey, and we've got just as many pre-sales guys as we have sales guys just helping the customer 'cause that's what we want to do. They're going to use the products and consume it 'cause it's easy to do and to turn it off. >> So you focus the high-value activities with the high value employees on the right customer mix, while the rest is just kind of working through the cloud economics. >> Yeah, that's it. Hey, we have to do marketing, of course. We're here doing an event, it's going great. We were lucky enough to be mentioned in the, in the keynote this morning, so our booth's been swamped, >> And now you're on theCUBE, you're a CUBE alumni. >> Exactly. >> The world's going to see, going public next. >> One of the things we do on the marketing front, is when you come into Marketplace and you talk about how we onboard a seller, we have a whole team who we call category managers and so there's an expert over each subject area such as data analytics or networking or security and we not only give them the engineering advice on how to package, on how to onboard and by the way we didn't curate manage so we publish his AMI and he tells us what regions he wants it to go to. And so he may say, clone to Korea, but I don't want it over here, so the seller could decide geography but then we lay on a business go-to-market plan and we actually develop a joint go-to-market. And so we'll do co-marketing with our sellers, and they can choose whether it's by country, by territory, is it large enterprise, is it small business. So there's a set of business advice that we lend. >> So you apply some best practices and some market intelligence on the portfolio side. >> Exactly. >> And the sector. And then we have all the data right? We provide these guys with a real time API they're pulling data off the API every day and what's happening, and so were monitoring that data and everything's measured so this is a digital channel. And then of course the ultimate thing we do when I ran my last SaaS company, we provide the billing platform. And so the buyer comes in on the AWS account, uses the AWS account, so now we bill on behalf of, we do the collection from the buyer, and then we disperse the funds back to the vendor. >> You're making the market for 'em, and they're still doing their blocking and tackling. >> The customer gets a really good experience on their bill and then the customer spend actually becomes visible in Cost Explorer, so we've tagged everything, so we also tagged it so that it's "this is Matillion", and so the customer knows "I'm spending X much on, "X amount of dollars on Matillion on that stack." >> So you're a sales channel and you're adding more value, Matthew, if someone asks you, just say I say, "Hey Matthew, look I got a great product and it's kickin' ass, I want to get into Marketplace" what do I do, what advice would you give me, what would you say? "Oh, I'm skeptical of Amazon's Marketplace" or, "Hey, I really want it". How would you talk to those two tubes of audiences? >> Yeah, so I think the first thing, and we alluded to it earlier, is I think really hard about that 360 experience of packaging the product and how it's launched, that's engineering in the software itself. You need to think about how the customer's going to interact with it, but you also need to clothe that software with great quality content and support, and finally the right type of go-to-market motion around that. And one of the big benefits for us in terms of the AWS Marketplace has been the efficiency of the sales model. So we've got really efficient go-to-market economics and also the types of customers that we sell to and we've, for a company of our stage, you know, we're a post series B, high-growth software company, but for a company of that stage, we are, have a disproportionately high number of global 8,000 global 2,000 customers, that are because Marketplace takes away the barrier of selling into those guys. So as advice on how to be successful, I'd focus on that packaging side and advice as to why to do it, you've got instant worldwide reach into the traditional stomping ground of the the startup other tech vendors but also into the world's biggest software users. >> A virtuous circle, faster to the customers, at a lower cost structure, you still make money, everyone's happy, sounds like a, the Amazon business model. >> It is. >> Great customer experience, great selection, and you know, adoption by the customer, and then continued innovation. Another thing that we do is we have a portal where these guys are publishing new versions, so it's not a one-and-done model. So as these guys update their models, their engineers just publish into seller portal and then that new version comes in, and then we publish that new version out to the customer. So there's a refreshing of the AMI so the latest version is up there. >> And Werner's keynote today really highlighted it's not just about developers anymore, it's about the business teams coming together, pushing stuff real time to the Marketplace is now a business ops model and it's really kind of coming together with entrepreneurial traction and the footprint's a gateway to the world. You have a world footprint. >> Yes, it's 21st century software distribution and really the buyer gets the ultimate choice and you know the buyer can go for an annual contract or for by the hour, so economically, lots of choice. >> Alright, so I'll put you on the spot to end this segment. I'll be a naysayer. Dave you got competition out there, what, what's in it for me? How do you compare vis-a-vis the competition? >> Dave: You're a software vendor? >> Yeah. >> As, you're playin' the persona? >> Yeah, I'm a software guy, I'm looking at marketplaces, you know, why you guys? >> You know, you have to go where the customer is, ultimately you have to decide who your customer is. You know, Werner talked this morning about the tens of thousands of companies that are up on AWS, and so, if I've got 170 thousand buyers showing up on my marketplace, and they're intentional on their budget, and you're a software vendor you get reach, and given what Gartner says on where we are, on fulfilling share in cloud, is where the customer is. >> And if you're a service too, software service APIs, it's even better goodness there. >> Yeah we have thousands of consulting partners also use Marketplace as a library so if you're an SI, and we have tens of thousands of SIs, those SIs also view Marketplace as a good place to find software for the project. >> You've been in this business for a while. I mean, we've always talked about this on theCUBE, I want to ask you real quick, I mean more than ever now, ecosystems and communities are paramount, priority. Especially with this kind of dynamic 'cause that ecosystem is that fabric to enable, you know, go-to-markets that are seamless with economic scale, visibility into the numbers, what's your reaction when someone says that comment to you about community and an ecosystem? >> Well you know, an ecosystem is a collection of software companies that inter-operate. And the reality is that our customers are rewriting all the software. The world is rewriting its software portfolio. You know, a large customer I went to see recently has a thousand software applications. Now as they move them all to the cloud, they're either rewriting or they're modernizing, but as they rewrite them, they're going to use distributed services, they're going to use micro-services. And so they're refreshing their entire stack. >> Yeah, it's a re-platforming of the internet. >> Transformational. >> Dave McCann, who runs the Marketplace for AWS. Really kickin' butt out there. Congratulations on all your success, and I know there's a lot more to do, I wish we had more time, I'd love to do a follow-up with you and find out what's going on the Marketplace. and Matthew a partner, congratulations, hyper-growth, hittin' that trajectory. Congratulations, we'll come visit you in Manchester and then we'll drill a hole, we'll go to Melbourne right down there. Appreciate, thanks for coming on theCUBE, thanks. >> Thank you. >> I'm John Furrier and Stu Miniman. More live coverage after this short break. We are in San Francisco, live for AWS Summit 2018. We'll be right back. (techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent 2017 presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Welcome back to AWS re:Invent 2017. I am Lisa Martin with theCUBE, our day two of continuing coverage of this event that has attracted 44,000 people. Keith Townsend is my cohost, and we are very excited to welcome to theCUBE family Simon West, the CMO of Cyxtera. Welcome, Simon. >> Thank you, great to be here. >> Cyxtera, a six-month-old company. Tell us about it, what do you guys do? >> Sure, so as you said we are just six months old. It feels longer than that now, born at the intersection of five simultaneous acquisitions. One part of that was the acquisition of 57 data centers and a global co-location business that was formerly owned and operated by Century Link. Into that we've added the security and analytics capabilities of four modern startup software companies, and the vision is to provide a secure infrastructure solution both within our data centers, but interestingly even though I've got 57 data centers around the world, I want to be location agnostic. We recognize that today's enterprises are running multi-clouds, running hybrid environments, so we extend our security solutions on prem and into public clouds which is why we are here at AWS re:Invent. >> Fantastic. >> One of the big challenges that we hear from the enterprise perspective, hybrid IT is that the control that we have internally are very different from the controls that exist in AWS. How do you guys help even that out? >> You are exactly right, we would go so far as to gently suggest that the core method by which we protect access to infrastructure and applications which is still predicated on a physical perimeter is just fundamentally flawed in a 2017 world where your applications are everywhere, your users are everywhere connecting on a myriad of devices. You can't build a wall around that which doesn't exist. You have also obviously, as you say, you've got that problem of hydrogenous platforms, each with their own method of control. Our flagship product in that area is a product called AppGate SDP. SDP stands for software defined perimeter which is an emerging specification born out of the US government's disarm. Now a number of companies are offering software defined perimeter solutions. The basic premise that we hold is that security should be user centric rather than IP centric. A firewall is still predicated on granting access from one IP block to another IP block. The VPN may capture who is coming in, but once you are in, we give you basically unfettered access to flat corporate internal networks and we track you as an IP address rather than as a user. We think we should get more user centric. The user should be at the center of our policy. We think it should be more like cloud in the way we run security so rather than these hardware-based static central chokepoints, we think security should be real-time, it should be adaptive and intelligent, and it should be as agile as the cloud. You build cloud applications that are capable of spawning multiple copies of themselves, auto scaling up and down, moving from availability zone to availability zone yet our typical network security posture is still highly static. When you have some of the high profile attacks that we have seen over the last few months, our ability to change policy, immediately we recognize a problem. A particular operating system, apps in a particular service pack, is incredibly out of step with how agile the rest of our IT is. So more like cloud in terms of the way it operates, and finally we think, and so does the software defined perimeter spec, we think that access needs to be thought of as conditional rather than just a X, Y, yes or no. Jim has access to sensitive financial systems should be dependent on what operating system Jim is using whether Jim is on a coffee shop Wi-Fi network or on a structured corporate network, the time of day, the day of week, our overall security posture. The way AppGate works is when a user tries to access a system, the policy can ingest any one of these different conditional items. It can interrogate the device the user is using for the right software revisions. You can look at environmental variables. It can even look at internal business systems and check anything it can get to via an API, and only if those conditions are met will it provide access to a specific system, and then it can monitor that real time, so if your context changes, you move from a trusted network to an untested network, we can alter access. We can prime for a one time multifactor authentication or take any other steps the user wants. We offer that in cloud, on premise, integrated into our data centers to provide one central policy mechanism no matter what platform you are running on. In the case of AWS, we integrate with features like security groups, like AMI machine tagging, so you can build policy natively out of those Amazon features as well. >> Talk about that transition to this user based approach. I would imagine that a user can migrate their legacy systems into one of your 56, 57 data centers, and then as they start to expand out to the cloud, they have to change their operating model from they may migrate their traditional big firewall into your data center. What does that migration process look like? Is that an application by application spec, network by network? How do I transition? >> You know, it really varies. It feels a lot like I'm an old cloud guy, so it feels a lot like cloud did in the late 00s, in 2008, 2009. We think the software defined perimeter is going to have that big of an impact, a cloudlike impact on network and application security, but the way in which organizations will choose to implement it is going to vary. One of the things we did very early on was to integrate AppGate as a service into the data centers. If you think about co-location environments, when you bring new gear into a data center, you racket and stack it, the very next thing you do after that is drag a VPN back to the corporate office so you can access it remotely, which we would respectfully suggest is not necessarily the best way to do it in 2017 out of the chute. We've then integrated AppGate so organizations can just avail themselves of that as a service, and instantly have a kind of easy on-ramp. One of the big areas we see, and we've seen with customers here at re:Invent is customers who are moving workloads to cloud, and want to make sure that they can have that same sense of fine-grained access control common to those on premises and off premises environments, whether that's at migration or that's just an extension of an app into cloud environments, so it's kind of all over the place. >> Sorry Simon, what differentiates Cyxtera's approach to the software defined perimeter from your competitors? >> A couple of things, it's extremely robust in terms of one, being able to run in multiple environments, so a native AWS version, versions that run natively in other public cloud environments. Obviously we think the ability to offer it deeply integrated into the data centers is important. It's also capable of granting access to more than just web applications. You've got some solutions out there that are really web proxies and that are built for SAS apps and born on the cloud apps. This is more of a fundamental network platform by which you can gain access to any system or application you choose, and finally was introduced the concept of what we call scriptable entitlements which is the ability to interrogate third-party systems via API, and bring back those results as part of the building policy. An example there is we've got service provider customers who are running large multitenant environments. You then have a technical support organization who needs to support a huge multi thousands of servers environment with multiple customers running in multiple VLANs and typically the way you have to do that is a jam box in the middle and then giving these technical support folks access to that entire backend management network which is a security risk. With AppGate, you can actually integrate into a ticketing system and when John in support asks for access to a customer database server, at runtime, we can find out whether there is a trouble ticket open on that box assigned to that rep, and only then will we grant access. We don't grant level network access. We grant access to that specific application. We call it a segment of one, secure and cryptic connection between the user's device and the application or the applications they have access to but to nothing else. Everything else on the network is literally dark. It cannot be port scanned. It doesn't show up at all, so it's a much narrower sense of control, a much narrower sense of access, and again it's dynamic. If that trouble ticket that shut off, the access goes away automatically. We think the integration into business systems is a critical piece of the puzzle and an area where I think we have innovated with AppGate. >> Let's talk about security in depth. Obviously you guys are putting the software security perimeter around the data center, what we would classify as the data center which is kind of disappearing in a sense, and the edge. You talked about end-user protection. Where do you guys pickup and drop off when it comes to MDM, mobile device management, which is much more important now with mobile, and then laptops, desktops, et cetera, and you mentioned third parties, pieces of data center equipment that's not in your data center, like a wind farm. >> Sure, so you are right. We are absolutely moving to the edge. I think we continue to think that the data center will be as important as it ever was. The more cloud we have, the more data centers it needs to run in. The more public cloud we have the more people want to move some of their machines that might have historically run on prem to cloud data centers with low latency direct connect to public cloud environments. If you look at our data center footprint with regard to the edge, we are not just in the major markets, although in major metropolitan markets I've got half a dozen data centers all linked together, but I'm also in markets started across the country, so I've got half a dozen in New York and New Jersey, half a dozen in DC, half a dozen in the Bay Area, but I'm in Tampa, I'm in Columbus Ohio, I'm in Dallas, I'm in Denver, and so that distribution becomes particularly important as more customers move data to the edge. From a security perspective, again, we think of that data center as the nexus of enterprise at IT and the cloud. The data center is where our conversation about security in terms of access control starts. It's a physical security message of biometrics, and ID checks, and so forth, but there, we think is the missing piece of the puzzle. The principal point of ingress and egress into a data center today is not to the front door, the back door, or the loading dock. It's the massively clustered multicarrier network core, so if you are not providing some level of access control in and out of the network, I'd offer you are not providing a truly secure infrastructure solution. We start there. We are focused mainly at this point with AppGate at controlling the conversation between the user device and the system applications themselves. One of our other acquisitions, a company called Cat Bird has done some innovative work in terms of east/west segmentation in virtual environments, which is notoriously difficult otherwise to see, to stop the spread of how machines can talk to each other in a large virtualized forms as well, and so it's the infrastructure where we principally focus. >> Where are we, or maybe where are you guys in this revolution of information security? Are we at the forefront of massive change? What is Cyxtera's view on that? >> I think we are at the beginnings of a revolution that's about 20 years late. If you can kind of carbon date year zero of modern IT at around 1996, which is the advent of the Internet as a commercial and consumer force, that was the revolution for enterprise IT. That was the moment that we had to move IT outside the four walls of the machine room on the corporate campus. Prior to that, the applications all ran on big beige boxes in one room. The users were largely tethered to them by smaller beige boxes in other rooms, and the notion of perimeter security worked. It was a valid construct. As soon as enterprises had to start thinking about an increasingly global user base, as soon as users started to connect from all over the place, the concept of this perimeter goes away. Over the last 20 years, you've seen revolution after revolution and the way in which we design, provision, deploy, manage and operate our business applications, our development frameworks, and our infrastructure. We've revolutionized for availability. We've revolutionized agility. We've turned IT into a real-time API driven motion, and we've revolutionized for scalability with platforms like AWS just industrializing this real time IT on a global scale, and if you took a systems administrator from '96, and you showed them IT today, I think you have some explaining to do. If you took a security administrator from 1996 and showed him 2017, I think the construct would be familiar. We are still hardware driven in a software defined world. We are still assuming that access is static, that it's never changing, that it's predicated on the users being someplace, the applications being another, and again, in a world of real time IT, a world in which our underlying application footprint changes without any human intervention whatsoever, and I think you see with WannaCry, with NotPetya, with all of these attacks, the commonalities that they have in the terms of the reason they were so devastating is one, they take advantage of lateral spread. They take advantage of riding an authorized access into a corporate network where port scans show up 10,000s of ports where you can rattle the handles, break the locks, and spread like wildfire, and two, in the case of something like WannaCry, days after we realized what the problem was, we were unable to simply alter as an institution, as an industry, or as an enterprise access policy at the press of a button until we could get things patched. We had to sit, and wait, and watch the fires continue to burn, so it's a question of security being insufficiently agile, insufficiently automated and adaptive, and insufficiently software driven. We think that is just starting. I think on the SDP side, we've noticed in the last six months the conversation changing. We've noticed customers who now have SDP mandates internally who are seriously starting to evaluate these technologies. >> Wow, it sounds like Cyxtera is at the beginning of being potentially a great leader in this security revolution. We wish you, Simon, and the entire company the best of luck. We thank you so much for joining us on theCUBE, and we look forward to hearing great things from you guys down the road. >> Much appreciated, thank you both. >> Absolutely, for my cohost, Keith Townsend, I'm Lisa Martin. You are watching theCUBE's continuous coverage of AWS re:Invent 2017. Stick around guys, we will be right back.

>> ANNOUNCER: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering VM World 2017. Brought to you by Vmware and its ecosystem partner. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman here with John Troyer and excited to welcome back to the program Chris Wahl, who's the Chief Technologist at Rubrik. Chris, thanks for joining us. >> Oh, my pleasure. It's my first VMworld CUBE appearance so I'm super stoked. >> Yeah, we're pretty excited that you hang out with, you know, just a couple of geeks as opposed to, what's it Kevin Durant and Ice Cube. Is this a technology conference or Did you and Bipple work for some Hollywood big time company? >> It's funny you say that, they'll be more tomorrow. So I'll allude to that. But ideally, why not hang out with some cool folks. I mean I live in Oakland. Hip Hop needs to be represented and the Golden State Warriors. >> It's pretty cool. I'm looking forward to the party. I know there will be huge lines. When Katie comes to throw down with a bunch of people. So looking forward to those videos. So we've been looking at Rubrik since, you know, came out of stealth. I got to interview Bipple, you know, really early on, so we've been watching. What you're on like the 4.0 release now right? How long has that taken and you know why don't you bring us up to speed with what's going on with Rubrik. >> Yeah, it's our ninth, our ninth major release over basically eight quarters. And along with that, we've announced we've hit like a 150 million dollar run rate that we've included when we started it was all about VMWare, doing back-ups providing those back-ups a place to land, meaning object store or AWS S3. And now it's, we protect Hyper-V, Acropolis from Nutanix, obviously the VMWare Suite, we can do archive to Azure, we can do, there's like 30 some-odd integration points. With various storage vendors, archive vendors, public cloud, etcetera. And the ulta release which is 4.0, just really extends that because now, not only can we provide backups and recovery and archive, which is kind of our bread and butter. But you can archive that to public cloud and now you can start running those workloads. Right, so what we call a cloud on, I can take either on demand or archive data that's been sent to S3, and I can start building virtual machines, like I said on demand. I can take the AMI, put it in EC2 and start running it right now. And I start taking advantage of the services and it's a backup product. Like, that's what always kind of blows my mind. This isn't, that's not the use case, it's one thing that we unlock from backup to archive data >> One of the challenges I usually see out there, is that people are like, oh Rubrik, you know they do backups for VMWare, how do you, you know, you're very much involved in educating and getting out there and telling people about it, how do you get over the, oh wait you heard what we were doing six months ago or six weeks ago, and now we're doing so much more. So how do you stay up with that? >> It's tough to keep up obviously, because every quarter we basically have either some kind of major or a dot release that comes out. I mean realistically, I set the table a little bit differently, I say, what are you looking to do? What are the outcomes that you're trying to drive? Simplicity's a huge one because everyone's dealing with I have a backup storage vendor and I have a storage vendor, and I have tape vendor, and all this other hodge podge things that they're dealing with. They're looking to save money, but ultimately they're trying to automate, start leveraging the cloud. Start really like, taking the headache out of providing something that's very necessary. And when I start talking about the services they can add, beyond that, because it's not just about taking a backup, leaving it in some rotting archive for 10 years, or whatever, it's really what can I do with the data once I have this duplicated and compressed, kind of pool, that I can start drawing from. And that's where people start to, their mind gets blown a little bit. Now that the individual features and check boxes sets, it is what it is, you know, like if you happen to need Hyper-V or Acropolis or whatever, it's really just where you are on that journey to start taking advantage of this data. And I think that's where people start to get really excited and we start white boarding and nerding out a little bit. >> Well Chris, so don't keep us in suspense, what kinds of things can you do once you have a copy of this data? It's still, it's all live, it's either on solid state or spinning disk or in the cloud somewhere. That's very different than just putting it on tape, so what do I do now, that I have all this data pool? >> So probably the most common use case is, I have VBC and a security group in Amazon. That exists today. I'm archiving to S3 in some way, shape, or form. Either IA or whatever flavor vessel you want. And then you're thinking, well I have these applications, what else can I do with them? What if I put it to a query service or a relational data base service, or what if I sped up 10 different copies because I need to for lode testing or some type of testing. I mean it all falls under the funnel of dev test, but I hate just capping it that way, because I think it's unimaginative. Realistically, we're saying here you have this giant pile of compute, that you're already leveraging the storage part of it, you the object store that is S3. What if you could unlock all the other services with no heavy lift? And the workload is actually built as an AMI. Right, so an ami, it's actually running an EC2, so there's no, you don't necessarily have to extend the Hyper Visor layer or anything like that. And it's essentially S3 questions, from the product perspective. It's you know, what security group, BCP, and shape of the format you want it to be. Like large, small, Xlarge, et cetera. That's it. So think about unlocking cloud potentials for less technical people or people that are dipping their toe in a public cloud. It really unlocks that ability and we control the data plane across it. >> Just one thing on that, because it's interesting, dev tests a lot of times, used to get shoved to the back. And it was like, oh you can run on that old gear, you know you don't have any money for it. We've actually found that it can increase, kind of the companies agility and development is a big part of creating big cool things out of a company, so you don't under sell what improving dev tests can do. So did you have some customer stories or great things that customers have done with what this capability has. >> Yeah, but to be fair, at first when I saw that we were going to start, basically taking VMWare backups and pushing that in archive and then turning those into EC2 instances of any shape or quantity. I was like, that's kind of crazy, who has really wanted that Then I started talking to customers and it was a huge request. And a lot of times, my architectural background would think, lift and shift, oh no, don't necessarily do that. I'm not a huge fan of that process. But while that is certainly something you can do, what they're really looking to do is, well, I have this binary package or application suite that's running on Elk Stack or some Linux distro, or whatever, and I can't do anything with that because it's in production and it's making me money, but I'd really like to see what could be done with that? Or potentially can I just eliminate it completely and turn it into a service. And so I've got some customers that completely what they're doing, they're archiving already and what they have the product doing is every time a new snapshot is taken and is sent to the cloud, it builds automatically that EC2 instance, and it starts running it. So they have a collection of various state points that they can start playing with. The actual backup is immutable, but then they're saying, alright, what if exactly what I kind of alluded to a little, what if I start using a native service in the cloud. Or potentially just discard that workload completely. And start turning it into a service, or refactor it, re platform it et cetera. And they're not having to provision, usually you have to buy infrastructure to do that. Like you're talking about the waterfall of Chinese stuff, that turns into dev stuff three years later. They don't have to do that, they can literally start taking advantage of this cloud resource. Run it for an hour or so, because devs are great at CDIC pipelines, let's just automate the whole stack, let's answer our question by running queries through jenkins or something like that. And then throw it away and it cost a couple of bucks. I think that's pretty huge. >> Well Chris, can you also use this capability for DR, for disaster recovery? Can you re hydrate your AMI's up there if everything goes South in your data center? >> Absolutely. I mean it's a journey and this is for dot zero. So I'm not going to wave my hands and say that it's an amazing DR solution. But the third kind of use case that we highlight with our product is that absolutely. You can take the work loads either as a planned event, and say I'm actually putting it here and this is a permanent thing. Or an unplanned event, which is what we all are trying to avoid. Where you're running the work loads in the cloud, for some deterministic period of time, and either the application layer or the file system layer, or even, like a data base layer, you're then protecting it, using our cloud cluster technology, which is Rubrik running in the cloud. Right there, it has access to S3 and EC2, you know, adjacently, there is not net fee and then you start protecting that and sending the data the other way. Because Rubriks software can talk to any other Rubrik's software. We don't care what format or package it's in. In the future we'd like to add more to that. I don't want to over sell it, but certainly that's the journey. >> Chris tell us about how your customers are feeling about the cloud in general. You know you've lived with the VM community for a lot of years, like many of us, and that journey to cloud and you know, what is Hybrid and multi-cloud mean to them, and you know, what you've been seeing at Rubrik over the last year. >> Yeah it's ahh, everybody has a different definition between hybrid, public, private-- >> Stu: Every customer I ever talked to will have a different answer to that. >> I just say multi cloud, because it feels the most safe And the technically correct version of that definition. It's certainly something that, everyone's looking to do. I think kind of the I want to build a private cloud phase of the journey is somewhat expired in some cases. >> Stu: Did you see Pat's keynote this morning? >> Yeah, the I want to build a private cloud using open stack and you know, build all my widgets. I feel that era of marketing or whatnot, that was kind of like 2008 or 2010. So that kind of era of marketing message has died a little bit. It's really just more I have on prem stuff, I'm trying to modernize it, using hyper-converge, or using software to find X, you know, networking et cetera But ultimately I have to start leveraging the places where my paths, my iya's and my sas are going to start running. How do I then cobble all that together. I mean at the sea level, I need visibility, I need control, I need to make executable decisions. That are financially impactful. And so having something they can look across to those different ecosystems, and give you actionable data, like here's where it's running, here's where it could run, you know, it's all still just a business decision, based on SLA. It's powerful. But then as you go kind of down message for maybe a director or someone's who's managing IT, that's really, someone's breathing down their neck, saying, we've got to have a strategy. But they're technically savvy, they don't want to just put stuff in the cloud and get that huge bill. Then they have to like explain that as well. So it kind of sits in a nice place where we can protect the modern apps, or kind of, I guess you can call them, modern slash legacy in the data center. But also start providing protection at a landing pad for the cloud native to use as an over watch term The stuff that's built for cloud that runs there, that's distributed and very sensitive to the fact that it charges per iota of use at the same time. >> Well Chris, originally Rubrik was deploying to customers as an appliance, right? So can you talk a little bit about that, right, you have many different options now, the customer, right? You can get open source, you can get commercial software, or you can get appliances, you can get SAS, and now it sounds like you're, there's also a piece that can run in the cloud, right? That it's not just a box that sits in a did center somewhere So can you talk about, again, what do customers want? What's the advantage of some of those different deployment mechanisms, what do you see? >> I'm not saying this as a stalling tactic, but I love that question. Because yes, when we started it made sense, build a turnkey appliance, make sure that it's simple. Like in deployment, we used to say it can deploy in an hour and that includes the time to take it out of the box and that only goes so far because that's one use case. So certainly, for the first year or so, the product that was where we were driving it, as a scale out node based solution then we added Rubrik edge as a virtual appliance. And really it was meant to, I have a data center and I'm covering those remote offices, type use cases. And we required that folks kind of tether the two, because it's a single node that's really just a suggesting data and bringing it back using policy. Then we introduced cloud cluster in 3.2 which is a couple of releases ago. And that allows you to literally build a four plus node cluster as your AWS, basically you give us your account info and we share the EMI with you or the VM in case of Azure and then you can just build it, right? And that's totally independent, like you can just be a customer. We have a couple of customers that are public, that's all they do, they deploy cloud cluster they backup things in that environment. And then they replicate or archive to various clouds or various regions within clouds. And there's no requirement to buy the appliance because that would be kind of no bueno to do that. >> Sure. >> So right, there's various packages or we have the idea now where you can bring your own hardware to the table. And we'll sell you the software, so like Lenovo and Cisco and things like that. It can be your choice based on the relationships you have. >> Wow Chris your teams are gone a lot, not just your personal team but the Rubrik team I walked by the booth and wait, I saw five more people that I know from various companies. Talk about the growth of like, you know Rubrik. You joined a year ago and it felt like a small company then. Now you guys are there, I get the report from this financial analyst firms and like, have you seen the latest unicorn, Rubrik and I'm like, Rubrik, I know those guys. And gals. So yeah absolutely, talk about the growth of the company. What's the company hiring for? Tell us a little bit about the culture inside. >> Sure, I mean, it's actually been a little over two years now that I've been there, it's kind of flying. I was in the first 50 hires for the company. So at the time I felt like the FNG, but I guess now, I'm kind like the old, old man. I think we're approaching or have crossed the 500 employee threshold and we're talking eight quarters essentially. A lot of investment, across the world, right, so we decided very early on to invest in Europe as a market. We had offices in Utruck in the Netherlands. And in London, the UK, we've got a bunch of engineering folks in India. So we've got two different engineering teams. As well as, we have an excellent, center of excellence, I think in Kansas City. So there's a whole bunch of different roots that we're planting as a company. As well as a global kind of effort to make sales, support, product, engineering, marketing obviously, something that scales everywhere. It's not like all the engineers are in Palo Alto and Silicone Valley and everyone else is just in sales. But we're kind of driving across everywhere. My team went from one to six. Over the last eight or nine months. So everything is growing. Which I guess is good. >> As part of that you also moved to Silicone Valley and so how does it compare to the TV show. >> Chris: It's in Oakland. >> Well it's close enough to Silicone Valley. >> It's Silicone Valley adjacent. I will say I used to visit all the time, you know. For various events and things like that. Or for VM World or whatnot. I always got the impression that I liked being there for about a week and then I wanted to leave before I really started drinking the kool aid a little heavily so it's nice being just slightly on the east bay area. At the same time, I go to events and things now. More as a local and it's kind of awesome to hear oh I invented whatever technology, I invented bootstrap or MPM or something like that. And they're just available to chat with. I tried it at that the, the sunscreen song, where he says, you know, move to california, but leave before you turn soft. So at some point I might have to go back to Texas or something to just to keep the scaley rigidity to my persona intact. >> Yeah, so you missed the barbecue? >> Well I don't know if you saw Franklin's barbecue actually burned down during the hurricane, so. >> No >> Yeah, if you're a, a huge barbecue fan in Austin, weep a tear, it might be a bad mojo for a little bit. >> Wow. Alright, we were alluding at the very beginning of the interview, you've got some VIP guests, we don't talk too much about, like, oh we're doing this tomorrow and everything, but you got some cool activities, the all stars, you know some of the things. Give us a little viewpoint, what's the goal coming into VM World this year and what are some of the cool things that you're team and the extended team are doing. >> Yeah, so kind of more on the nerdy fun side, we've actually built up, one of my team, Rebecca Fitzhughes build out this V all stars card deck so we picked a bunch of infuencers, and people that, you know friends and family kind of thing built them some trading cards and based on what you turn in you can win prizes and things like that. It was just a lot of other vendors have done things that I really respect. Like Solid Fire has the socks and the cards against humanity as an example. I wanted to do something similar and Rebecca had a great idea. She executed on that. Beyond that though, we obviously have Ice Cube coming in. He's going to be partying at the Marquis on Tuesday evening so he'll be, he'll be hanging around, you know the king of hip hop there. And on a more like fun, charitable note, we actually have Kevin Durant coming in tomorrow. We are shooting hoops for his charity fund. So everybody that sinks a goal, or ahh, I'm obviously not a basket ball person, but whoever sinks the ball into the hoop gets two dollars donated to his charity fund and you build it to win a jersey and things like that. So kind of spreading it across sports, music, and various digital transformation type things. To make sure that everyone who comes in, has a good time. VMWare's our roots, right? 1.0, the product was focused on that environment. It's been my roots for a long time. And we want to pay that back to the community. You can't forget where you came from, right? >> Alright, Chris Wahl, great to catch up with you. Thanks for joining us sporting your Alta t-shirt your Rubrik... >> I'm very branded. >> John Troyer and I will be back with lots more coverage here at VM World 2017, you're watching theCUBE.

>> Live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's theCUBE covering Red Hat Summit 2017. Brought to you by Red Hat. {Electronic music} >> Welcome to the session wrap of the Red Hat Summit. I am your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host Stu Miniman. Wrapping up three great days of open source talk. Where are we, Stu? Tell us the state of Red Hat, the state of open source. What have we learned? >> You mean, beyond we're in the seaport district of Boston, Massachusetts, you know, a couple blocks away from >> or the heart of open source the new open innovation lab coming from Red Hat. So, Rebecca it's been a lot of fun with you these last couple of days. >> I feel the same way. >> Did over thirty interviews: executives from Jim Whitehurst you know on down to many of the product teams many people participating greatly in open source, open innovation award winners, the women of open source award winners, open invest in lab participants. A lot of topics but okay Red Hat itself. I've worked with Red Hat in various roles in my career for quite a long time. We didn't talk a lot about Linux this week. >> Stu, Stu, Stu I've got to stop you Linux is containers, containers is Linux. So we're hearing so much about containers it's the same diff. >> Yeah, well I got the t-shirt "Linux is containers, containers are Linux" however, if I even look at Red Hat's messaging Red Hat Enterprise Linux is like the first platform what they built around and it's a little surprising that they didn't at least in the conversation we had, it was very much about some of the newer things coming into the show I said What's the progress that they've made around some of the cloud offerings, some of the management offerings, Ansible, weaving its way into a lot of the products. OpenShift really maturing and expanding the portfolio with things like the OpenShift io to be able to really help with application modernization. Middleware progressing even heard a little bit of the future where they are doing things like server lists. So Red Hat's making good progress. We love when we do these shows multiple years is they talk about it, they deliver on it, and in the way a couple guests talked about there's a little more transparency in open source and being part of all of these communities you have some visibility as to where you're going it doesn't mean that things don't slip every now and again and not every piece makes it into the product lease that they're expecting, but they've made great progress. Linux still is just a mainstay. It's a piece of lots of environments. The ecosystem reminds me of the same way I talk about OpenStack which we'll go into next week. We had a great session with Radhesh towards the end here talking about OpenStack in many ways is like that it's weaving its way into lots of infrastructure pieces some we'll dig into more this week, but let's focus on this week for now. >> Right, so you said we didn't talk a lot about Linux. I set you straight there. But what else did we, what else did you not hear? What do you remain skeptical of? As you said, Red Hat seems to be going from strength to strength. It had two point four billion in revenue this year. >> Yeah it did. For 2016, two point four billion in revenue and three billion in bookings >> Right And there was, I read a financial report that Jim Whithurst said Golda Company is five billion within five years. And you look at it and you say okay from two point four to five well, you know >> yeah actually if it was three billion in bookings and I think back to three years ago when we first started it was around two billion dollars that was almost a 50% growth rate in three years. So, if three years from now we do 50% growth rate we're going to have three to four point five. Of course the math is not linear, there's scaling of the company, there's lots of products in here, but they've got a big tam. >> Ambitious but achievable. >> Ambitious but achievable. The question we've had for a bunch of years is when I look at the cloud. Public cloud is affecting a lot of the traditional infrastructure companies. Red Hat is a software company. They're an open source company. We heard the cloud messaging. Microsoft and Google up on stage. Andy Jassy on video. That was a big question coming in. What about Amazon? How close will Red Hat do? Amazon actually has their own AMI for Linux which means I can get a package for Linux from Amazon not only that I could take that package outside of Amazon and put it in a data center so I could use the same type of Linux for AWS to work with Red Hat to take RedShift make what's deeper integration in the public cloud with AWS and if I put that on premises I'm going to have access to the AWS services so that tighter application integration for what they're laying out really the open hybrid cloud. Red Hat terminology, we'll see if other people take that up. But really it's a multi-cloud world and Red Hat has a good position to live in lots of those environments and provide and really help solutionize and give really almost that almost adult supervision that the enterprise wants for all of these open packages. So I was heartened to see the progress made. Strong ecosystem. As always, you know passionate customers, developers, and really just heartwarming stories of you know making the world a better place. What was your take on those pieces? >> Yes, absolutely. Those are really what you come away remembering. It is the story of a woman saving a man's life in a park in Singapore. It is the story of an emergency room doing a better job of serving its patients. It is scaling up technology use in the developing world. This is what you come away. And you say that is open source. >> Maybe next year that apple you get at the grocery store won't have been sitting there 18 months. >> Well maybe. But in a code climate. Boston going to be beautiful year round. No, but so I really do agree and that is I think what Red Hat did so brilliantly at this summit. Is really showcasing the ways in which this technology is having an impact at transforming industries obviously, helping businesses make more money, but also really doing a lot of good. >> Yeah, absolutely. And Rebecca I want a big shout out to the community here. This is a community show. Red Hat is a great participant of the community. We talked to Jim Whitehurst they want to help raise up the community it's not about Red Hat leadership. We don't hear number one at a show like this, we hear where they're participating and when they get involved they go deep. We heard about OpenPOWER. How excited they are that Red Hat you know getting involved and working in some of these pieces. So, we could not be here without Red Hat support. It's our fourth year doing the show. We had a blast with it. We see Red Hat at a lot of shows. They bring us great customers, their ecosystem partners and their executives. And it's been a pleasure to cover it. >> Yeah. No, I couldn't agree more and I do think, just in terms of what your talking about, the humility of the Red Hat folks is that they aren't going banging drums of we're number one in this and number one in that and you sort of think, "okay, blah, blah." No, they don't at all. They really are saying, "No we're about making our partners and our customers shine." >> Yeah, yeah. What's going to happen with the future of jobs? You know where are people going to work these days in the future? >> How will they work? >> Rebecca: What kind of processes will they work with? >> We've all said it's very much a global ecosystem here. Got to interview quite a few international guests here and hear how technology is spreading, how people are interacting, how innovation happens in a global environment. I'm sure ties back to a lot of the things that you write about. >> Absolutely. And I think, that Radhesh some of his words of wisdom was technology is the easy part what we need to be fundamentally rethinking is how we write these applications, how we develop these applications, how we design them, and how we deliver them. And, also really bearing in mind the end user. And, that is what we learned in a lot of our other sessions. Is really thinking about that. We heard from another person you know your competitor is maybe not necessarily the competitor you're thinking of it's the last app you opened or the last application that that company was using and what is drawing them toward that application or that technology or that infrastructure and not yours? [Stu]- Right. >> And so it's really thinking much more broadly about technology and who you're competing with and how you're working. >> Yeah, that was it was a bank. I loved that. They're like we're not competing against other banks it's like where's that other attention span that you have. >> Rebecca: Right, where are your eyeballs. >> One of my favorite lines is you know what you, Michelangelo, and Einstein have in common? You only have 24 hours in the day so you need to make sure you take advantage of that. That's the kind of thing that >> That's depressing Stu, when you leverage >> I don't know. the community. I thought it's inspiring. >> Okay. You know we can do >> Good great things when we work together and do that. So, we're always like oh I'm too busy or I don't have time it's like hogwash. >> Right. >> That's not the case. I'm inspired and fired up after all the conversations we had especially some of these great users here and looking forward to the next one. >> You're looking forward to the next one, you're looking forward to OpenStack coming up. >> Yeah, oh my gosh so right. >> Got to plug it. >> So Rebecca next week we're both going to be on theCUBE but in two different locales. Our team is in the midst of the sprint that is the spring tour. So we had the Micron event and we're here. Next week our team is at Service Now Knowledge, we're also at DELL EMC World in Vegas, we're at OpenStack Summit back in Boston. We've got some of our teams going to Microsoft Build. I'm sure we'll have analyst reports follow up from there. Boy do we have more shows than I can mention through the rest of May and June and beyond. Check out siliconangle.tv to catch all of them. Rebecca I'm going to let you do the close, but I have to say a big thanks to our team here and remote. >> Yes, yes. Leonard, Chuck, Alex, Ava. >> We love you all. Jeff and the team back there. You know we were doing some cool things playing with Facebook Live as part of this event, we always love playing around with some of the new technologies finding more ways that we can help reach you. We always appreciate your feedback. And Rebecca take us on home. >> Thank you so much for joining us here at theCUBE Red Hat Summit, Boston, Massachusetts. I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman, Thanks so much. {Electronic music}