(upbeat music) >> Hi and welcome to another Cube conversation. This one from BMC Helix Immersion Days in Santa Clara Marriott in Santa Clara, California. I'm Peter Burris. Every organization that attempts significant change, and there are a lot of organizations attempting digital transformation, which is about as significant a set of change as you can make, has to worry about what platform, what foundation has to be in place to make that change easier, and that's what we're going to be talking about in this conversation. We've got John Fraser, who's the Managing Director of Service Management in Online Business Systems. John, welcome to the Cube. >> Thanks Peter. >> So, tell us a little bit about online business systems. Let's start there. >> So, online business systems is a Canadian digital transformation in cyber security consultancy. We've been around now for 33 years. We're headquartered in beautiful Winnipeg, Manitoba, but I have operations all across North America and we're about 330 people today and growing rapidly. >> Winnipeg happens to be one of my favorite cities in the world, so good for you. >> Perfect. All right. So, let's talk about, I mentioned up front this notion of a stable platform, a stable foundation. Tell us a little bit about what your understanding of, as you work with your clients, what constitutes that stable foundation for change? >> Well, one of the biggest challenges we see with companies, is they try to make change in the wrong way. Too much, too fast with no control, no governance and they just don't have the proper controls in place. One of the biggest challenges with change in an organization in digital transformation today is they don't know where they're starting from. So, one of the fundamentals is really understanding where they're beginning and what they're trying to change. It's staggering to see organizations, and I've got lots of stories to tell around companies that have gone through major program transformations to really trying to embrace digital technologies only to fail again and again and again, because they don't understand how things are connected together or where they're starting from. >> So, the foundation has to start with knowing what's in the foundation? Have I got that right? >> That's right. You can't change what you don't know. >> So, it's online business systems helps clients move through some of these digital transformations. I got to believe that the service management element is a crucial feature of any successful transformation. >> Absolutely, we begin with embracing technology to help companies understand where they're starting from. We leverage a lot of tools and techniques in terms of understanding where they're starting as an organization, the people, and then using tools like BMC's Helix discovery to understand all of the components that make up the systems within their organization that they're trying to transform and how they're all connected together. >> Now, as we go through this process, one of the things that a lot of my clients are discovering is that the cyber security challenges get that much more extreme. One of the things that's become increasingly obvious is as companies talk more about digital business, talk more about how they're transforming and generating new classes of revenue or customer experience, they become more obvious target to the bad guys. What is the relationship between digital transformation, service management, and cyber security? >> Yeah, and interesting you say that. We believe as an organization that they're intertwined. You can't do digital transformation without a strong cyber security program. You can't do either one of them without automation. The pace of change and more importantly the volume of threats and challenges facing the organizations is beyond human capability. You can't do it manual anymore. It doesn't matter how many people you throw at it, it's just impossible. So, you've got to automate, you've got to leverage technology, artificial intelligence to really face these challenges. >> So, given your standing and working on the service management side, what are some of the steps that your customers are taking to ensure that they are going to succeed with digital transformation in a way that doesn't open them up to security issues? >> So, one of the key areas is understanding, like I said before, where they're starting from. How all of the components that make up their business service fit together and then, understanding from a security aspect how to prioritize fixing those threats. One of the biggest challenges in securing your organization, today is understanding what to work on. The average large organization gets thousands and thousands of new vulnerabilities a day and the back log just becomes insurmountable. So, without being able to understand how to prioritize that work against valuable business services, they're never going to win. >> So, you mentioned something about service capabilities or service components, the historical norm for IT has been, until a few years ago, to focus on mainly the hardware or infrastructure assets as the things to be managed and that has been not working as well in a world where we're delivering digital services to customers and partners for revenue or other purposes. So, what constitutes a service capability or a service component in your mind as kind of the new notion of asset within IT? >> It's assets, anywhere. It could be the traditional hardware sitting in your server room. It could be servers and/or microservices sitting in a cloud location, it could be a software as a service component. They all make up business services together. >> Or combinations of all of them. >> It often is combinations of all of them together and that's one of the biggest challenges is understanding how they all fit together and how the information flows. So, for instance, if an organization is trying to prioritize how to secure a business service. Let's use automated tellers as an example. They may have traditional on premise servers, they may have cloud offerings and they may have third-party software as a service just protecting their servers on premise is not going to protect that business service, so you really need to understand how all of the pieces fit together. >> So, are you actually working with business leaders and IT leaders to do a better job with defining what constitutes a digital business capability and use that as an organizing principal for how they think about how all their resources come together? >> Yes, it's critical that you have business and IT working together and you have the right level of business working with IT. Without sponsorship at the executive level, digital transformation will fail. >> Even in Canada? >> Even in Canada. >> Well, this has been a great conversation. John Fraser who's a Managing Director and Service Management in Online Business Systems. Thanks very much for being on the Cube. >> Thanks Peter. >> And once again, this has been a Cube conversation from BMC Helix Immersion Days in Santa Clara Marriott and I'm Peter Burris. Thanks until next time. (upbeat music)

(upbeat electro music) >> Hi and welcome to another CUBE Conversation. This one from BMC Helix's Immersion Days, Santa Clara Marriott in Santa Clara, California. I'm Peter Burris. As we think about what organizations have to do over the next few years, imagine a world in which technology's being applied to generating revenue where customer experience is dependent upon technology, where your overall operational fabric and framework and likelihood of staying in business is tied to how well your technology plant works. That's where we're going and bringing an IT capability that's capable of supporting and sustaining those demands on business is an absolutely essential thing for businesses of all side. Fundamental, we have to think about how digital services that's delivering those new sources of revenue, new experiences and operations management which is ensuring that the predictability and certainty of how operations work is at the heart of many of the changes within IT today. Got a great guest to talk about that. Vidya Srinivasan is the Product Strategy and Marketing Executive at BMC Software. Vidya, welcome back to the CUBE. >> Pleasure to be here. >> So I said a lot upfront but lets start by getting the simple update. Where is BMC Helix today? >> Yeah, so Peter you were there for our first launch last year. I think about a year and a half ago. So since then obviously we've come a long way. We've onboarded a lot of customers, existing customers as well as new logos. So we are at a point where our customers are happy with Helix. They want to see more. They're working with us to roll out chat bots, really implementing a lot of our AI automation technologies. And as you heard today, eighteen months in, we now have Helix kind of expanded into the ITOM world. So we are actually bringing together the conversions of ITSM and ITOM with our Helix platform. So now officially, Helix is able to support a lot of the IT operations management functions that include monitoring , that include remediation, that include capacity and cost optimization. So it's really bringing together the two worlds of IT. That's really a foundation for a lot of our IT organizations. So we are very happy to announce it today at the Immersion Day Events and we are looking forward to a great update probably in the next six months. Back with you. >> Well one of the many challenges that an IT organization faces is that the nature of the assess that they're trying to generate returns on or changing away from hardware up into often software defining for structure and software and data as well. And that's one of the catalysts for why this ITOM/ITSM conversions is starting to happen. So we have had these people in silos. What kind of tensions is that generating as businesses try to deploy and utilize their IT in new and expressive and innovative ways? >> Yeah that's a great question. When we talk about the foundation of anything to do with IT, right, is knowing what you have. And as people heard in the keynote today, it's turning your unknowns to knowns, right? A big part of the challenge with IT is not knowing what you have. So discovery, as you said, is one of the foundational solutions we have within the Helix Suite that helps customers discover what they have whether it's as assets, it could be software, especially in a software world. So really understanding what you have and then being able to proactively and predictively monitor those assets, knowing what vulnerabilities you have, being able to automatically remediate those, and ultimately it's delivering the ultimate service experience to the end customer. So that's where Helix as a whole with Discover, Monitor, Service, Re Media and Optimize gives you the whole good handle on what you have and be able to ultimately provide the service of the future that we all as consumers in our day to day lives expect, we'll start expecting in our work lives. >> Well there has historically been some tension between the ITOM people and the ITSM people. They've been very strong siloed, each intent on optimizing their own capabilities. That has undermined business in many respects and certainly undermined the IT mission because a lot of people look at IT as being the problem in large measure because they have been throwing information back over the fence and sometimes at each other. So in your experience, now Helix has been out there for a year and a half. In your experience, how are ITOM and ITSM groups starting to work better together? Utilizing tooling that's not built for just one but is actually built for the idea, the promise of a greater more converged set of functions? >> Yeah so I think the tug of ITSM and ITOM organizations continue to exist and the convergence starts happening when the organization starts starting to mature in their life cycles. So let's take a simple example of a ticket. You as an end user open a service request, it goes to a service desk, somebody picks it up, and ultimately if that ticket is associated with an asset or a service that's running somewhere and the actual Cloud instance or something is broken, that's a perfect example of an end user, an agent in an ITSM scenario and an IT operations person having to all work together to make the customer happy. So that is a typical scenario in every organization and every organization has multiple service desks and multiple lines of business, not just IT issues. So making sure that through our solutions, making sure that we can minimize the existence of IT silos is a big part of what Helix brings to the table. And as we rule out the capabilities, whether you call them Discover, you know, the five capabilities that we outlined or whatever you might be referring to within the organization. It is important to make sure that the ultimate platform that brings them together is seamlessly integrated, whether it's all on one physical platform or through integration strategies across other tools in the industry, but that's kind of the intent of bringing together these two worlds. >> But at least the data is working together. >> Exactly. >> So I want to highlight one of the things you said and why it's so important we start thinking about this differently. You noted the idea of a user, an ITSM or a Service Management professional and then someone who's on the operations side doing configurations or provisioning of resources. When that person that started that off, who generated that ticket, is an employee we have certain degree of control over how fast we can service them. When we start talking about that user being a customer, now we're really talking about service experience. We're really talking about the brand. We're really talking about revenue. How is the emergence of a new class of users, being customers and increasingly using things like Robotic Process Automation, other forms of software, that are generating these kinds of requirements, altering the demand for some of these advanced tools? >> Yeah there's quite a bit of things you touched in that question so from an end user standpoint, automation comes in various forms and obviously from an end user standpoint it's this channel of preference and that's where leveraging technologies like chat bots from an end user experience standpoint, being able to use your phone, it could be your tablet, whatever it might be or your voice assistance through your phone, all of those are things that customers are expecting because you know, that's how I communicate on a day to day basis so it's nothing new. On the RPA and the automation side on the back end of things there's definitely this notion of augmented, I know a lot of our speakers spoke about this earlier, this notion of augmented intelligence that we all need to kind of embrace in order for us to deliver that end user experience and end user doesn't have to be B2B. It can be B2E, B2C, whatever it might be. At some point at least in this world we are kind of getting to a point where it doesn't matter whether it's a B2B, B2C, or B2E. It's everybody is an end user and there is no delineation in terms of the experience that anybody expects. So that's kind of what we expect to transcend into the back office whether it's IT service desk or if it's the IT operation's persona. Being able to discover or scan things from your chat bot, from your tablet, instead of having a honking machine that you normally think of when you think of a knock. So those are all things I think are sort of going to be erased in terms of what we think of IT ops. as we look into the next three to five years. So that's the experience that I think, it's not just limited to an end user but across the IT organization. What does that experience look like for all the various personas to coexist and collaborate within the construct of an enterprise. >> So, you again, have been out with customers. Either taking remedy customers and bringing them to Helix or brand new customers and bringing them to Helix. What are some of the patterns of success that you're starting to see? Where does it tend to start? What kinds of outcomes are they achieving? Where do you see your happiest customers being? >> I think it's spectrum of customers right, so it's a range. There are customers who are at an early stage in terms of just thinking about how to move to Cloud so those customers are simply thinking about okay I've been using your OnPrem Solution Remedy for a while and we are at a point where we need to move it to in to a SaaS model. So there are customers who are just looking to lift and shift and move to a SaaS model. There are other customers who, it's a no-brainer, they started with us in a SaaS model and then now they're looking to leverage more of the NextGen experience, so they are looking at chat bots, they're looking at RPA bots and working with us on that. And then there are customers who are just looking to integrate with us on different fronts. They might be using other tools and then they're looking at leveraging our integration capabilities or whatever it might be so there's a variety of different customers in different stages but obviously a big part of this shift we are seeing that's common across these is the move to SaaS and the fact that they don't want to worry about running their operations as much as they want to reinvent and innovative and grow. So that's the common theme that we're seeing across the variety of customers that we're helping today. >> Vidya Srinivasan, Product Strategy, Marketing Executive, BMC Software, once again thanks for being on the CUBE. >> Thank you very much for having me. >> And from the BMC Helix Immersion Days at Santa Clara Marriott in Santa Clara, California, I'm Peter Burris. Once again this has been a CUBE Conversation. Until next time. (upbeat electro music)

>>Hi and welcome to another Cube conversation today were BMC Felix's Immersion Days and the Senate Clara Marry on Santa Clara, California We're having a great series of conversations about the convergence of digital service's and operations management on one of the most important features of that is How do you realise Analytics Analytics is on? The tip of everybody's tongue is these days, but it's being applied marketing and sales >>kind of the >>surely cobbler's children that aren't getting the same treatment or, in fact, the IittIe organization. So what we're gonna do in this next few conversation is learn more about how I t analytics is beginning to transform I t. And facilitating this convergence of digital service is in operations management. And to do that, we've got Gore over Bari. Who's the president's or co founder on CEO of numeric fi. Welcome to the Cube. >>Thank you, Peter. Pleasure to be here. >>So, Gaurav, tell us a little about new verify. Let's start there. >>Sure. Yeah, I know. I liked, you know, in your opening statement, he talked about I t in terms of its own use of analytics being a little like, you know, a situation where the cobbler's children don't have any shoes because I t stood up pretty powerful analytical applications for the CMO, the CFO, VP of sales, et cetera, but not for writing itself. And so we think. Yes, it's ironic, but it's also untenable. And it's untenable because in the age of digital transformation, where you're opening up digital channels for revenue generation and the like and customer engagement, I t. Is really moving up from the basement to the boardroom, right? So you have CEOs who worry now about things like availability, about sort of a speed of innovation with quality and things like that. And so to be able to have a decision support system ah, system of intelligence, if you will, that across rank and file off i t across the plan bill run life cycle across the entire idea. State from infrastructure to ABS to Business Service's gives you recommendations and intelligent insights on how to, you know, improve the quality of your work, the health of your systems to reduce the risk of your systems that we felt it was an idea whose time had come on. So that's why we got started with the Mer if I and we rolled out a bunch of targeted analytical applications across areas like Project Analytics develops analytic service and lyrics, Asset Analytics and the like. And so it's sort of a string of purse that you can deploy across your I T organization and its interconnected s so you can ask cross getting questions as well. So that's in a nutshell. The story in America, Fi in its vision. >>So, Garv, I've been within a proximate to i t You're in I t for a long time now. And it's not that we didn't have reporting because I t was always doing reporting. We have poured on no stop lights projects wherever they were. But I think what you're saying is something a little bit more fundamental. It's really Can we do a better job of really capturing the resources that are creating value for the business, understand how to deploy them or successfully We're not just talking about the infrastructure. We're talking a lot about people. I got that right. >>You hit that nail on the head there. Ultimately, you know it is a business, and you have to if you want to face sort of the epic challenges and opportunities off tomorrow that I t alone can really take on. You have to understand the people process, project and product dimensions of the I t business. And so what that means is, if you want to drive down your iron oh, costs from, you know, roughly 72% of I t budget, which is what it was. The average today to 50% is the gold standard. That's half a trillion dollars for the G two K, right? And you want to take that savings and reinvest it in agility in foster app. David. Higher quality, right? How do you do that without tapping into things like automation and the use of analytics to drive down your ire no cost rationally and increase your dev your development velocity intelligently? Right? So that's where analytics has a huge role to play. >>But also it's got to be fucking interrupt you. It's gotta be that you have to have. You have to start with visibility. Yep, into what resource is are generating the greatest return? Yeah. Why air they generating that return? Why are other resources not generating return? Yeah, and seeing how all that gets connected across the range of activities that a nightie organization is performing on behalf of the business. >>Yeah, I know exactly. I think the how is really about getting that visibility across sources, and it's a non trivial problem to do that when you have a plethora of sources that were never built to talk to one another. You may want to, for example, with an I t. Understand. You know, the total open work on each person's plate, right? So they may have a bunch of incident resolution work that they're doing, and the data and the signal from that comes from a B, M, C or a service now and yet they may be pulled into apt of work, which the signal is coming from Ajira or a C A. How do you pull that together into a single dashboard that gives you that view of what everyone's working on? And then you can make decisions like goodness with so much unplanned work that's gone Fred's way, there is no way that the epic that he's involved with is going to, you know, be completed on time. So I have Project Chris. I have released risk as a result, I may even have attrition risk. And so the ability to pull together data into a single model answer the visibility question, too. You're to the point you make and then go the next step off predicting likely outcomes. That's the magic. And that's the use of analytics to sort of trance for my tea into, um, you know, operating in a far more intelligent paradigm than it has thus far. >>Other tools have attempted to do this, but they attempted to basically be the soup to nuts tool. So they forced users Thio install agents everywhere that there was a single process model that was expected to be employed to administer all kinds of different resources. There are very significant limits on how you considered application development application management, For example, Why is numeric five different? >>Yeah, what we've tried to do is really take ah leaf from the page on books of those who have set up succeeded in this endeavor before. So if you look at you know the solutions that a CMO might have it at her fingertips or a CFO might have right fundamentally, it's about pulling data into existing systems, not requiring a change of behavior but pulling data from existing systems into a canonical model into a standard sort of analytical data model that runs on surfing. Ah, a dedicated stack on. Then you basically have this layer off descriptive, prescriptive and predictive analytics sort of folded in on. That's the approach we've taken where we say, Hey, look, we want There is such a thing as a change management system that doesn't go away. We would like to mind the accumulated history of all the changes you've ever put into production by tapping into your service management system and then your upstream Devon test system. Because change is often a piece of court, it began its life somewhere in a in a death cycle. So how many times was that piece of court rollback tested? How many times that it failed the testing cycle? Who worked on it? What's been their success rate thus far? And then, with respect to the change itself in the past, how often has a change like this failed? You know, if changes were done on a weekend through a combination of an unsure in offshore team, is that implicated in a failed changes in the past and then downstream of the change in the past, you know, Was it a decline in performance or usage availability as gleaned from your monitoring tools? So we pull all data from all these sources without requiring you to re instrument them into a standard model. And then, for every upcoming change, we tell you Hey, this one is a risky change. Go look at it. Send it back for further testing. Hey, this one is a lower exchange pusher to production directly and so inherently thehe bility toe pull data from multiple existing sources into a standard data model and have best practice reports and insights sort of layer on top. That's the approach taken. >>Well, look, I really like this. Uh, let me let me see if I can summarize something you just said So Numeric fei is not immediately antagonistic to anything that anybody has with the shop. That it starts from a proposition. That look what you're doing is working or not, But let's start from across from a premise. It you're doing something now. Let's learn more about it. Let's then asked Can we do it better? Yes or no? You have the intelligence to do that. And if it should be replaced, can you actually get to the point of that? You can actually indicate or suggest how and when to replace something. >>Yeah, that's a fabulous question. I think you know, increasingly what we're seeing is that our customers are pulling us in the direction off, making active recommendations on decisions that they could potentially make such as, you know, you may want to consider consolidating a certain class of applications because, you know, given its revenue and usage, the amount of support button associated with it is too high here. You might want to take a more refined and data driven, inside driven approach to asset retirement because you know this whole, >>you know, >>everything that Lenovo, in five years old Moscow is too blunt an instrument, you know, retired those assets that are the most error prone and keep alive those assets that still have useful life >>And that process, maybe itself be extremely expensive, very limited returns >>precisely precisely. So the ability to transcend now from just visibility on dashboards to providing active recommendations for every action along the way, you know, project race release risk, patrician risk, change, risk service quality risk, et cetera. We see that as as the as the vision for us. You know, it's the use of a I not just for automation, you know, sort of Ah, which clearly the ops field is investing in, but also the use of a i for decision support for providing you with intelligent recommendations across the full sphere of activities that I t undertakes. >>Grove Ari from the from the verify. Thanks very much for being on the Cube. >>My pleasure. Thank you. >>Once again, this has been a cute conversation from BMC. Helix is immersion days and the we look forward to seeing you again. Thanks for listening.

>>Hi, I'm Peter Burress. And welcome to another cute conversation. This one from BMC Helix is immersion days in Santa Clara Marriott in Santa Clara, California One of the biggest challenges that every IittIe organization faces. In fact, every business is how to start merging greater control through I t sm as well as greater change and evolve ability of systems through Dev ops. It's a big topic. A lot of folks looking at how best to do it. We've got a great person here to talk to us about it. Dick Stark is the president CEO of right star Dick. Welcome to the Cube. >>Well, thanks very much for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity beyond the Cube here. >>Excellent. Well, why don't we start? Tell us a little about right start? >>Sure. Right. Stars in I t sm consultancy and we happen to be a dev Ops consulted to say at the same time, we're also a BMC solution provider and lasting solution provider. Now, we've been a BMC solution provider for for 16 years, so we've been in this space a long time and we've earned several accolades up along the way. We made it into the Forrester I t s m service provider. It's not called a Magic Quadrant because that's what God gardener uses. But instead it's a wave report. And so we made it sort of into the far right hand quadrant there. And if you added up all the points we ended up in North America being rated number five out of all the different idea Sam Consultancy. So it's very proud about that. And then last year with BMC, we were the North American Solution provider of the year in the D S. M space. >>Well is an export person, I can tell you Congratulations. Those waves very seriously. Let's jump into this question, though off what does I t. S m from a technology and people in process standpoint have to do to accommodate some of the changes that are being founded and defusing out of the Hole Dev Ops world, which is just having an enormous impact on our I t thinks and does >>it really has. And you know, we've been in the space a long time and I t s m Sometimes I tell the words are interchangeable and there are about if you can believe this about three million people That ended up getting an Idol certification of some short like an Idol Foundation certificate. And over time, that's been have been a really a big, big deal. However, Idol now is lost, its luster just a little bit. And it's allowed Dev ops to sort of sneak in or add dollar whatever you won't want to call it, and I'd listen. Standing still, though, they've bounced back and bounce back in a hard way. And they've they've come up with what's now called Idle for an Idol For was just released this this year, and it takes some of those Dev ops principles, and it has its own value stream as well and is a result Idle for or agile idol or whatever you wanna call it now is taking a little bit stronger position. And when I say Dev ops principles, it's things like Collaborate. It's things like promote, it's It's things like operate and automate. It's It's It's all about it again. It's all about collaboration in some of these other values that that you'll see in Dev ops. I guess what what happened is we spent a lot of time on the Idol side of things, and we did things for process sake and a good example would be changed management and spent a lot of time putting together is change management processes per this idol framework. Okay, And what what happened is that a lot of the users then rebelled a little bit because it might take longer to go through and fill out all the paperwork of It's not paperwork the online tool set then to do a change than to actually perform the change itself. So I don't got a little bit of a bad rap. And so that's where this whole Dev ops thing has come in. And the whole idea right now is to get Dev and Ops under the Shame umbrella, because that's not typically very used to do. But it's, but it's certainly happening. >>Well, let's talk about why that intersections happening, right? So I'm gonna I'm gonna show a little bit of history from my perspective as well, you know, I told began, First of all, it started in some government agencies many years ago, but it started as the basis of it was How do we take better care of the assets with an I T. Which at the time were mainly hardware. In many respects, what we've seen happen over the last 25 30 years that Idol has been an extent. Is that the nature of the assets that I t recognizes? His acknowledges delivering value for the business has changed. We've gone from hardware to infrastructure is code. That's where Dev Ops is so many respects. What you're saying is that Iittle is now trying to bring the best of what it means to do a good job of asset management with a new class of assets. Namely, software is code infrastructures code, and that's where we have to have that marriage. I got that right. >>That's that's correct. And you don't want to have silent silos. You want to be a silo buster if if anything else. And I just wanted to mention something else that I think is kind of fun along with this Idol. Four. We now do what's called the Mars Lander simulation traded it replaced. If you've heard of the Apollo 13 simulation, will Mars four, even though it's idle for specific, it's really all about Dev ops, and I took the Mars board just about a month or so ago, and it's a lot of fun. You sit down and the whole objective is to get get to Mars and you're a business. So and you're going to be selling the data that you're going to collect along along the way. And so the whole idea is to is to make a profit, and you have all these different roles that you play. When I went through it, I was the release manager then. But you might have a business analyst. You might have a service desk person. You have vendors and a it's it's really it's very realistic that and typically like a lot of large enterprises, you start playing the game and it's just chaos, and you have to go back and try this over and over again until essentially you get it right. And I was surprised how easy it is to get sucked in. If you're in a big enterprise, your silent, you have a specific role that you have to d'oh and you have instructions how you're supposed to do that and you want to stick to it. Whatever you know, whatever your assignment is, you have to do that. But that's not the right thing to Dio. Remember, it's about collaboration. It's about transparency. It's been it's about posting your goals, posting the results and moving forward from from there. And so I was surprised how I got sucked into it. And so I can understand why we need to make some progress in this space. And it's all about getting people to change their behavior a little bit in some of these new tool set certainly help >>well, as well. You're going back to what you said. He used to be the three R's of any regime or rolls responsibilities and relationships, and so the roles have are evolving. But often it's just in name only the responsibilities. You know today it's still code. It still has to run on hard, where it's not a bunch of hamsters, they're doing things. But as you said, it's really the relationships amongst the various actors as we introduce more business people. As technology gets put into position to generate more revenue or to do more with customer experience, the relationships are being pressured, are being really pushed to evolve. So how do you see in your practice in right stars practice. How do you see the relationships between Dev ops and I T s M and the business starting to evolve so that you can have amore coherent, comprehensive view of how you make sister? Well, >>I think in that particular case, it's gonna take some time. I mean, it's not gonna happen overnight. I mean, that's why you have agile coaches, or that's while you have the scales agile, or the safe framework is because people don't get it. And they need to understand how to work together better with others. And so it's not gonna happen by just implementing a new new tool set turning the key and then say, OK, everything's gonna be fine. It's good to get the integration between the different tool sets. And the technology is certainly there to do that. But without having some instruction to begin with and having the door in users cooperate. You're not going to see that kind of kind of performance improvement or cost statements or whatever it is that you're looking for. You're not going to see that >>they're one of the biggest challenges in any changes. Abandonment. The user's ultimately abandoned. So as you look a tte. The ideas M tool set that you're utilizing mainly from being right is it is that there's a degree of there's always a degree of pedagogic tool away, it says. Here's how you should do things. What you're discovering is that tool set is really catalyzing. Helping to catalyze positive changes in your mind within a lot of your customer base is, well, the >>thing about Helix, and I'm very excited about this because we're making a lot of good progress with. He likes our customer base that we have right now and give you a good example. George Washing University were based in a D C. Area day. If they are, too, they've been a long time remedy customer. We've moved them to Helix, and then, just recently, when I say recently started a year ago in August, they moved to the BMC Chap Cat box platform. Then, this past August, they totally went cold turkey with chatbots throughout the entire university. That makes a tremendous difference in the performance and not just performance, but also on the cost and the efficiency that the university, particularly from a service management perspective, is providing to its university employees and to its students, just like you mentioned today in the keynote session that it's all about mobility. And practically practically all the students there rely on their their cellphone day in and day out. And so when they have a question at G W. If it's how do I get a new account? How do I get a park parking permit? G on the wireless in my dorm room isn't working. You don't pick up the phone and call. Nobody does that you texted at. And this is a chap off its power by IBM Watson, and it works great. And there's lots of good things that are gonna come out of that. For example, students, I think they probably still have to turn paper sent. You know, maybe that's all Elektronik Lee delivered, but I think you might still have to print out a paper and turn it into your professor. You know, I'm not sure, but bluebirds Anyway, you're probably you're probably gonna do this late at night when the service desk is an open. So what do you do if you can't get the printer to work? Well, you pick up your cell phone, you text in that That the issue and bingo. You've got a response. So those are the sorts of things that are gonna make for a tremendous amount of impact, and it's gonna cause people to change their behavior in really a good way. Another good example. We have another longtime hospital customer. They have a 24 by seven service desk. They're huge, and they pay a lot of money to operate that 24 by seven. But they hardly get any call said at night. Right? Because not that many people work. So why don't they just turn that and you start using chatbots and think of that the r A. Y. It's just incredible. And I think you're going to see more. And that more situations like that as we move forward. >>Dick start President CEO of right Starr. Yep. Thanks very much for being too. >>Thanks very much. Appreciate it. Okay. >>And what's going on? Peter Burress. You've been watching other cube conversation from BMC Helix immersion days in Santa Clara. Thanks very much. Next time

>>Hi, I'm Peter Burress. And welcome to another cube conversation. This one from B M sees Helix Immersion Days and Santa Clara, California The Senate Clara Marriott. Every organization of any scale now has to lean on their suppliers in the technology world in different ways. It used to be you could almost have an antagonistic relationship with whoever was offering you technology. But today, every business is becoming increasingly dependent on technology suppliers that are providing crucial strategic service's. And that relationship is changing the way we think about technology. That is nowhere more obvious than the Manage service's provider space or the MSP space, which is highly dependent upon very complex delivery of very rich service's and a set of analytics that air allow the many service provider in the business to work together to achieve strategic ends. Now have a conversation about how that's working and how that's changing. We've got a great cube conversation got Aldo Romero, who's the cross service is deputy director at Keio Networks Mexico. Alda, Welcome to the Cube. So let's start with what is key networks tell us a little bit about Kiyo Networks. >>Okay, Kyo networks. Personally, he canna from dad and me, you know so much. Probably. Service is a technology. Inform us on the mission critical tenemos court. Enter data centers until Mexico Panorama making quarter political American Guatemala. So if >>we think about this challenge upfront, I said that increasingly, business has to think about treating its suppliers differently in the manage service providers at the vanguard of that, what catalyzed Keogh Network's decision to start thinking about how digital service is and operations management. We're gonna have to start coming together so that you could provide a better set of managed service capabilities to your clients. >>Another 50 are intellectuals For most of the heat does Bella Paralysis. Harvey Seo is a wall of stones in front under the remit Parma coral and triggers. A reason was clean and it's Santy Okay, on a work visa, no Russian grand plataforma CCTV shows was gonna transform our nose and Monroe and Moroccan era Watson was clean. A the city most cake. Alex LaMarca Hello, Obama said a roller. I mean telekinesis. Thomas put up a little emporia. Sorry. C'mon, process. So that's a gimme into control. Purple rules transformer heat element. So as >>you think about using BMC Helix and other classes of technology. You must have a vision in mind of where your relationships and how your service is are gonna be provided. Tell us a little bit about the relationship that you have with BMC Helix and how it's informing and altering and adjusting the promises in the value propositions that you have to your manage. Service customers. >>LaMarca parties with the most. The teleconference. A Norman 10. Vamos a bodyguard Transformer journals. You have a key on networks LLC and technology on the set of issues it processes your lot ago, most in your mutual momentous and those qualities of Israel experience. Check every message from Ministro. Probable servicios is most polio liberal exito process a literal form. A syndicate tile in our mentor mentor now look innocent of all arsonist risk. Leontes, his former meant importante para nosotros a parabola guarantee survey. No Star Service >>manage Service's has been around for a while. We're now talking about Cloud Service isn't as important subset of the manage service of space, but as one that over the course of the next few years might even become more important, especially in countries like Mexico that are growing so fast and introducing increasingly complex capabilities within their economies. As Keogh Networks evolves, do you see yourself being a leader in how cloud service is evolve as well? >>See if you determine, take yours leader in Lapa Improbable level problems servicios the clout that most officials the club go on Amazon. The notary's is the cloak on Microsoft tennis officials that throughout the opening stock include Syria. Infinity tormented knows Romans camellia in America. >>So one last question as you envision moving forward with this increasingly combined digital service, is management and operations management. What kind of leadership are you looking to be? Him? See? He looks for >>Leader Yasuoka. Stumbled booze can do is for their their arms. Trustee in testing facility. Tireless operaciones Sartre Business officials. The mission. Critical contextual. Here's the MTA cameras were Mr Alex Cee Lo Vamos con una Fortaleza, You know, in a para para nuestros revisions in America, he said, mass value. So spar partners >>Aldo Aldo Romero. Thank you very much for being on the Cube. Thank you. All the romero is tthe e Crawl Service is Deputy director Keogh Networks in Mexico, and once again, I'm Peter Burns. This has been another cute conversation until next time

>>Hi and welcome to another cube conversation this time from BMC helix immersion day at Santa Clara Marriott in Santa Clara, California. I'm Peter Burris, your host for today. One of the biggest challenges that every company faces as they try to think about how they're going to do more with digital services and operation in support of more complex business. And the need for greater simplicity is how to extend their ecosystem to include other sources of knowledge, other sources of insight about how a company can accelerate its journey to this new D S O M world. And to have that conversation, we've got a great partner, uh, here at BMCs helix immersion days. Rob graves is the vice president at data trend. Rob, welcome to the cube. >>Thank you Peter. Glad to be here. >>So tell us a little bit about data train. It's a, it's a BMC partner. You've been around for a long time, helping customers do some relatively important infrastructure things. Where are you guys today? >>Yeah, well I'll go back a little history. We've been in business since 1987. Same two owners, a lot of stability. They continue to drive the business for us. Um, heavy in the infrastructure space, really got started in the data center and a regional multi-site, uh, businesses, large enterprises in the hospitality, retail, financial services, et cetera, where we've grown up, um, started out like a lot of businesses selling hardware and pretty quickly as customers ask for higher value, have moved into consulting and broader services, really consider ourselves, uh, infrastructure centric systems integrator if that's a mouthful. That's really who we are and what we do. Um, as we have all of those consulting practices, more and more, we realized the need to understand our customer's environments better, oftentimes better than they even do. And came across a product called Tideway, which was launching the U S became one of their launch partners here in the U S and shortly thereafter BMC acquired them. So we became a BMC partner in 2009 and it's just been a great journey ever since. Um, at the time they were probably the most robust discovery tool and uh, uh, they've continued to keep that leadership since then. >>Well, let's pick up on that. So discovery is historically been a kind of a domain that was used mainly by an it group to have some, a little bit better understanding of what types of things they needed to do, a task needed to perform. But in a digital business, discovering digital assets becomes absolutely a strategic capability. So how has discovery of volved and then how are you using it to bring these new levels of value? >>It's a great question and it's a more and more essential as the world gets more complex and devices get more complex with cloud, with IOT and centers, Penn transient or right. It was one thing to, to be able to recognize I have these physical service servers here in my data center or maybe even in remote offices. Then, um, our friends at VMware came along and made everything virtual. So how do I manage a workload going from this physical device to another physical device? Fantastic. Actually one of my favorite Cuba, uh, interviews ever of old friend of mine, Pat Gelsinger, I just love watching all his cube interviews just came off of VMworld, very bright tastic love. But, um, they really got that going as cloud really started to, to launch, okay, now I've got application workloads, pieces of my it all over the place. Um, and keeping on top of that is just daunting. Right? And somebody's gotta give BMC a lot of credit, uh, as they've continued to remarket themselves and, and build capabilities. They are absolutely at the front of the curve, the BMC helix discovery product, um, all sorts of competitors, little startups through some very large players. But whenever we bring it into a customer, hands down, we're able to get more done. That comprehensive view of the infrastructure through the applications, through the business services. Um, we constantly come in and replace other products. Bring this back in. >>Well, one of the things that I've observed as a guy who has spent a lot of time watching the industry is, uh, technologies like discovery were especially important at the very largest enterprises because they had all these physical assets that they, that people were buying and installing and they never knew quite was what was on the network. And it was always like this thing was kind of, maybe it was appropriate for a mid size enterprise, but it didn't have the same numbers. But when you start introducing, as you said, virtualization or software robots or other transient assets and resources that are going to have a significant impact in how the business operates, the number of things that you have to stay on top of means it's now an appropriate set of technologies for virtually any size organization. Do you see that as well? >>Absolutely. And especially companies that have lots of locations, lots of sites complex it, I love that BMC jumped pretty early into extending the, the helix discovery into the IOT space. We do a lot of multisite deployments. Um, we're part of the, several of the large OEMs, IOT systems integration programs. And when you're starting to talk hundreds, thousands, even millions of devices out there, how do these companies, these users keep track of all that and make sure that they're operating properly? The security is a big issue. I mean, one of the best things I like about the helix discovery is, uh, how can you secure something you don't understand? I mean, I can't tell you how many times we've gone in with discovery. Uh, to handle one use case. Something as simple as, um, populating a CMDB or, uh, making sure that dr plan is, is solid or relocating a data center, which kind of the classic use cases of a discovery product. >>And you have the security guys come into the room just cause they're everywhere. They have to be watching everything, right? Then all of a sudden I, one of the large stock brokerages, all of a sudden the security guy jumped in the front room and said, stop, stop. What is that? And he points at our application map that came out of helix discovery. It's that, that should not be talking to that. Right. And uh, you know, basically found a big vulnerability just because of an application dependency that the security team wasn't aware of. Um, BMC has got quite a few good examples where they'll almost an accidental big security play happen just from a security guy being in the room and watching the output from discovery and seeing things that their tools had never shown them. >>And I do not want to be the guy that agitated the security guy in a meeting like that. So I was great. Isn't that the satellite board is pretty funny. So, so tell us a little bit about your customer base and how they are utilizing some of this new tooling, uh, to, uh, to extend current but also alter and change future types of business. >>Yeah, there's a, a variety of, uh, great stories. We typically play in larger enterprises, a lot of fortune one hundreds. Um, I'll, I'll leave some of the, uh, our good customers nameless, protect the guilty and the innocent. Right. But, uh, one of the large airlines, you know, went through an exercise of stamps, new dr capability. Uh, it's still wrapping that up. Um, they've had a number of unplanned outages based on new changes. They're doing a lot of change, modernizing applications, moving into new data centers. Screen new dr capabilities. You know, they thought they had decent understanding. Their environments went through their change control process. Oops. Didn't realize that other applications would depend on this server that we just did in the last upgrade on, um, took their line down for a couple of hours. You know, that's not good. Um, uh, bringing in these discovery tools very quickly, they've seen, Hey, I can prevent that. >>I can really understand in real time what's talking to what and make sure I avoid out. That's a big one. I mentioned some of the security conversations. Uh, something that we've been doing some innovation with BMC is getting to some of the discovery as a service type of capabilities and that's allowing us to do some what we're calling micro use cases. Even some simple challenges like, um, a network switch maintenance. Everyone wants to reduce the cost of, of hardware maintenance. What's really hard to discern with hundreds or even thousands of switches, which ones are supporting which workloads. So we can go into an environment and say, Hey, you've got a thousand network switches. You know, 500 of them are just supporting test. I want you to take those off 24 by seven, two hour support and really give them a real time mapping. And that's a money saver right there. That's been very difficult for them to figure out on their own. Um, because that connection from the infrastructure to the apps and the services that are being delivered. So there's a variety of different use cases like that. >>So when you think about where data trends is going to go and, uh, as your business expands in response to the new types of things that customers want to do, where do you think you're going to be spending your time with customers in say, three years? And how is this set of digital services and operations management tooling going to make it possible for you to deliver that service more reliably, more profitably, et cetera? >>Yeah, no, it's uh, it's interesting. Um, while we grew up in the data center, we touch a lot of, uh, large edge environments as well. And we're seeing more and more innovation coming at the edge. Uh, Sanjay from gen pack spoke earlier and you used a great phrase again, innovation at the edge, governance at the core, and it's really, um, something that, uh, we're seeing a lot. So new workloads out on the edge. Gotta be able to understand that, see what's out there, because more and more compute and analytics that can be done at the edge, not in your data center. That's a place we're putting a lot of focus right now. >>Rob graves, vice president of data trend. Thanks again for being on the queue. All right. You got it. Thank you. And once again, this is Peter Burris from the Santa Clara Marriott at BMCs helix immersion days. Thanks for watching. Until next time.

[Music] hi and welcome to another cube conversation this time from the MCS Hilux immersion day at the Santa Clara Marriott beautiful Northern California we're going to be spending the entire day having a series of discussions about what it means to do a better job of both digital services management and operations management and how those technologies are coming together to dramatically alter how business operates how customers get value and ultimately how profits are generated we're going to start this conversation with a CDO a chief digital officer from Genpact sanjay sri tvasta welcome to the cube thank you very much so to start tell us a little bit about Jim pacts interesting company comprised we are indeed Genpact is a large global professional services provider for digital transformation services we serve many of the fortune 500 companies around the world and we help them think through their business processes in the business models and digitally transform that to take advantage of so all the new capabilities that are coming through so digital service outcomes is a very important feature of that because I presume that when you have those conversations with customers you're talking about the outcomes that they're trying to achieve yeah and not just the services that you're gonna provide it's fine so tell us a little bit about what is a digital service outcome and why is it so important yeah well I think the reality is that what technology is doing it it's disintermediating the ecosystem so many of the industries our clients operate in and they have to go back and reimagine their value proposition of the core of what they do with the use of new innovative technologies and it's that intersection of new capabilities of new innovative business models that really use emerging technologies but intersect them with their business models with their business processes and the requirements of their clients and help them rethink reimagine and deliver the new value proposition that's really what it's all about so digital service outcome would then be the things that the business must do and must do well but ideally with a different experience or with a different degree of flexibility and agility or with and cost profile I got that right correct so when we think about that what are some of the key elements of a digital service success we like to think about three critical success factors in driving any digital transformation the first one is the notion of experience and what I mean by that is not user interface for a piece of software but the journey of a customer an employee a provider a partner in engaging with you in your business model and we think about journey mapping that scientifically we think about design thinking on the back of that and we think about reimagining what the new experience looks like one of the largest things we learned in the industry is digital transformation on the back of costs take out a productivity or efficiency is is is insufficient to drive and optimize the value that digital can bring and using experience as the compass is sort of the Northstar in that journey is a meaningful differentiator and drive our business benefits so that's number one in the second area that's become increasingly apparent is the intersection of domain with digital and the thinking there is that to materialize the benefit of digital in an enterprise you have to intersect it with the specifics of that business how users interact what clients seek how does business actually happen you know we talk about it artificial intelligence a lot we do a lot of work in AI is an example and there's key thing about machine learning is goal orientation and what is goal orientation it's about understanding the specifics of your environments you can actually orient the goal of the machine learning algorithm to deliver higher high accuracy results and it's something that can often easily get overlooked so indexing on the two halves of the whole the yin and the yang the the the piece around digital and the innovative technologies and being able to leverage and take advantage of them but equally be founded and domain understand the environment and use that knowledge to drive the right materialization of the and that's the second critical success factor I think to get it right I think that third one is the notion of how do you build a framework for innovation you know it's not the sort of thing where large fortune company 100 500 fortune 500 companies can necessarily experiment and you know it's a little bit for go happy-go-lucky strategy it doesn't really work you have to innovate at scale you have to do it in a fundamental fashion you have to do it as a critical success factor and so one of the biggest things we focus on is how do you innovate at the edge innovation must be at the edge this is where the rubber meets the road but governance has to be at the core let me build on that for a second because you said innovations at the edge so basically that means where the brand promise is being enacted for the customer and that could be at an industrial automation setting or it could be in recommendation if any any number of things but it's where the value proposition is realized for the customer correct okay that's exactly right and that's where innovation must happen so as a large corporation you must be you know it's important to set up a framework that allows you to do innovation at the edge otherwise it's not meaningful innovation if you will it's just a lot of busy work and yet as you do that and if you change your business model is you bring new components to the equation how do you drive governance and it's increasingly becoming more important you think about we're gonna be in a AI first world increasingly more and more that's the reality the world we're going in and in that AI first world you know III work here in Palo Alto I walk into my office a couple of hundred people in any given day if tomorrow morning I walked in and hundred people didn't show up for work I would know right away because I can see them now fast forward to an environment where we have digital workers we have automation BOTS we have conversationally I chat box and in that world understanding which of my AI components are on which ones are off which ones showed up for work today which ones fell sick and really being able to understand that governance and that's just the productivity piece of it then you think about data and security AI changes complete dimensions on that and you think about bias and explained ability to become increasingly important and notion of a digital ethics board and thinking about ethics more pervasively so I think that companies and clients we serve that do really well in digital transformation are those that keen on those three things the notion of experience is the true compass for how you try transformation the ability to intermix domain and digital in a meaningfully intersecting fashion and to be thoughtful proactive and get governance right up front in the journey to come so let me again building out a little bit because people are increasingly recognizing that we're not going to centralized with cloud we're going to greater distribute we're going to distribute data more we're going to distribute function more but you just added another dimension that some some of us have been thinking about for a long time and that's this notion of distributing authorities yeah so that an individual at the edge can make the decision based on the data and the resources that are available with the appropriate set of authorities and that has to be handled at a central in a in a overall coherent governed way so that leaves the next question and just before you go that I mean I think the best example of that is we do that most corporations do that really well in the financial scheme of things business is that the edge make decisions on a day-to-day basis on pricing and and relationships and so on and so forth and yet there's a central audit committee that looks through the financials and make sure it meets the right requirements and has the right framework and much in the same way we're gonna start seeing digital ethics committees that become part of these large corporations as they think about digitizing the business governance at the end of the day is how do you how you orchestrate multiple divergent claims against a common set of assets and and being able to do that it's absolutely essential and it leads to this notion of we've got to cite these ideas of digital business digital services and operations management how are we going to weave them together utilizing some of these new technologies new fabrics that are now possible to both achieve the outcomes we're talking about at scale in its speed yeah well the the technology capabilities are improving really well in that area and so the good news is there's a set of tools that are now available that give you the ingredients the the components of the recipe that's required to make dinner well you know the the work that needs to happen is actually how to orchestrate their that to figure out which components you to come in and how do you pull together a vertical stack that has the right components to meet your needs today and more importantly to address the needs of the future because this is changing like no other time in history you want options with everything you do now you want to make sure that you have a stream of options for the future and that's especially important here that's right that's exactly right and and the the the quick framework we've established there is sort of the three-legged stool of how do you integrate quickly how do you modular eyes your investments and how do you govern them into one integrated whole and those become really important I'll give you examples you know much of the work we do will work with the consumer bank for instance and they'll want to do a robotic process automation engagement will run on for nine months they'll get 1,800 robots up and running and the next question becomes well now we have all this data that we didn't really have because now we have an RPA running how do I learn some machine learning insights from there and so we then work with them to actually drive some insights and get these questions answered and then the engagement changes to well now that we have this pattern recognition that we understand more questions will be asked how do I respond to those questions a automatically and before they get asked this notion of next best action and so you think about that journey of a traditional client you know the requirements change from robotics to machine learning to conversationally AI to something else and keeping that string of investments that that innovative sort of streak true and yet being able to manage govern and protect the investments that's the key role and especially if we do want to look at innovation at the edge because we want to see some commonalities otherwise we freaked people out along the way don't exactly right so I'm J Street of AUSA thank you very much for being on the cube thank you for having me and once again I'm Peter Burroughs and we'll be back with our next guest shortly from BMC Hilux immersion day here at the Santa Clara Marriott thanks very much for listening

>>Hi, I'm Peter Burress. And welcome back to know the Cube conversation. This one from B M sees Helix Immersion Day at Santa Clara Marriott in Santa Clara, California. Once again, we've got a great set of topics for today Today, Right now we're gonna talk about is the everybody talks about the explosion in the amount of data, but nobody talks about the resulting or associated explosion in software. And that may in fact, be that an even bigger issue than the explosion and data. Because ultimately, we want to apply that data and get work done. That's gonna require that we rethink service's rethink service management, rethink operations and rethink operations management in the context of how all this new software is gonna create new work but also can perform new classes of work. Soto have that conversation. We've got a couple of great guests. New York. And here is the BMC president of Digital Service is in operations management division to BMC. Welcome back to the Cube. >>Thank you. >>And me Here shoot Close the CEO of Automation anywhere here. Welcome to the Cube. So Naoki, I want to start with you. A year ago, we started on this journey of how this new digital service is is going to evolve to do Maur types of work for people. How has be emcees? Helix Platform evolved in that time. >>So if you remember last time, it's almost a year. Back when we launched Helix, which was all around taking the service management capability that we had on Prem Minute available in cloud continue rise so customers can run and cut of their choice and provided experience through various channels bought as channel off that customer experience. This is what we had released last time. We call it the three C's for Helix, Everything in cloud containerized with cognitive capabilities so customers can transform that experience in this version. What we are extending helix is with the operation side. So although I Tom capabilities that we have in our platform are now a part off Felix, so we have one entering platform so that customers can discover every asset that they have on prominent loud monitor those assets detected anomalies service bought four lines of business and for i t. For immediate issues that happen, vulnerabilities that are there in the system and automatically optimized capacity and cost on holistic. This whole closed loop off operations and service coming together is what this next day off innovations that were launching BMC Helix >>Soma here New York He's talked about very successfully, and Felix has been a very successful platform for improving user experience. But up front, I noted that we're not just talking about human beings as users anymore. We're talking about software is users R p a robotic process. Automation is a central feature of some of these new trends. Tell us a little bit about how robotic process automation is driving an increased need for this kind of digital service in operations management capability? >>Sure think it a high level you have to think of. The new organization has augmented organization that are human and what's working side by side, each doing what they're best at. And so, in a specific example of a service organization, uh, the the BMC hell ex ist Licht Alexis Taking this is Think of this as a utility where the way you plug it into an electricity outlet and switch on the light and you get the electricity, you plug into the BMC helix, and behind it, you have augmented workforce of chat boards are pia bots, human beings each doing what they're best at and giving a far superior customer experience and like any other that is happening now. And that's the future off service industry. >>But when you point a human, so to speak metaphorically into that system, there's a certain amount of time there's a certain amount of training. There's a certain, and as a consequence, you can have a little bit more predictable scale. That doesn't mean that you don't end up with a lot of complexity, but our p A seems that the potential of our P A seems that you're going to increase the rate at which these users, in this case, digital users are going to enter into the system. You don't have a training regimen you can attach to them. They have to be tested. They have to be discovered. You have to be put in operation with reliability. How is that ultimately driving the need for some of these new capabilities? >>I think you if you think of this, if you think of this box as a digital workers, you almost have to go through the same process that you would go through human beings. You onboard them in terms of you, configure them. You trained them with cognitive capabilities and the and then in. The one difference is the monitor themselves. Without any bias they give, they can give you. They can give their own performance rating performance rating card. Um, but the beauty off this is when human and what's work together because there are some functions that the bots can do well. And then at some point they can hand off to the human beings and human beings. Do some of the more interesting work that is based on judgment. Call customer service. All of that, um, so that the combination is is the end goal for everybody >>and to add would be here said right, that customer experience, whether you're providing experience to employees, are consumers and customers. That is the ultimate goal. That's ultimate result of what you want to get and the speed at which you provided experiences, the accuracy of which you provide experience of the cause, that which you provided experience becomes a competitive sensation, which is where all this automation, this augmentation that they're doing with humans and bots is what enables us to do that right for or large enterprise customers May major service organizations trying to transform into that beautiful. >>But increasingly, it seems as though the, uh, the things that we have to do to orchestrate in ministry Maur users digital and human undertaking Maur complex tasks where each is best applied is really driving a lot of new data mentioned upfront, an enormous amount of software and you said new experiences. But those experiences have to be reliable, have to be secure. They have to be predictable. So that suggests this overwhelming impact of all of these capabilities. You talk about a digital tsunami? What are some of the key things? Do you think Enterprise is gonna have to do to start engaging that? >>Yeah, I'm incredibly college 40 nursery revolution. Whether we call our initial transformation, I think what we all are experiencing is the tsunami Texan ami, right, Tsunami of clouds, where you have corruption clouds, private clouds have a close marriage clouds, tsunami of devices, not just more valid visors, but also has everything alone, as is getting connected devices, tsunami of channels. I mean, as an end user, I wantto experience that in the channel of my preference lack as a journalism as a channel tsunami of bots, off conversation, bullets in our Peabody. So in this tsunami, I think what everyone is trying to figure out is, how do they manage this explosion? It's humanly impossible to do it all manually. You have toe augment it. But of course, intelligence, I'm all. But then, of course, boss, become a big part of that augmentation toe. Orchestrate all of them back to back cross. >>I would say that the this is no longer nice to have, because if you look it from over consumer's perspective, last 20 years of digital technologies off from my Amazons and Google's of the World, Netflix and others they have created this mind set off instant customer gratification, and we all been trained for it. So what was acceptable five years ago is no longer acceptable in our own lives, I e. And so this new standard off instant result instant outcome. Instant respond. Instant delivery V. Just expected. Right. Once you're end, consumer begins to do that. We as a business is no longer have a choice that's writing on the wall. And so what? This new platform Zehr doing like you'd be emcee. Hellickson automation anywhere is delivering their instant gratification. And when you think about it, more and more of the new customers that are millennials, they don't know any other way. So for them, this is the only experience they will relate. Oh, so again, this is not nice to see Oh, it is. But it is the only way only the world will operate, right? >>Well, what we're trying to do is take on new classes of customer experience, new operational opportunities to improve our profitability, innovate and find new value propositions. But you mentioned time arrival rate of transaction is no longer predictable. It's gonna be defined by the market, not by your employees. We could go on and on and on with that. What is taught us a little bit about automation anywhere and what automation anywhere is doing to try to ensure that as businesses go off to attend to the complexity creates new value at the same time can introduce simplicity where they could get scale and more automation. >>Sure, you earlier mentioned that with explosion of data came the explosion off applications And what? Let me focus on what problem or permission anywhere solves. If you look at large organizations, they have vast amount of applications, sometimes 408 100 few 1000 what we have seen. What we've been doing historically is using people as a human bridges between this applications. And we have a prettier that way for too long. And that's the world today. >>So humans are the interface >>humans at the bridges between applications and often called the salty air operations. That's the easiest way to describe it. So the what are two mission ever does is it offers this technology platform robotic process automation area in an Arctic split form that integrates all off it together into a seamless automation bought that can go across and with the eye it can make intelligent, intelligent choices. Um, and so now take that Combined with the BMC, Alex, and you have a seamless service platform that can deliver superior experience. >>So we've got now these swivel chair users now being software, which means that we could discover them more easily. We can monitor them more easily, and that feeds. He looks >>absolutely so you know, in our consumer wall, in a day to day life We are used to a certain experience of how we consume data or consume experiences with our TVs and all the channels that experience that we have an identity. Life is what people expect when they walk into the company, right walking to the Enterprise, which every IittIe organization is trying to figure out. How do they get to that level of maturity? So this is what the combination of what we're doing with Felix and automation anywhere brewing's that consumer great experiences into an enterprise >>world. Some here when we think about our p A. We're applying it in interesting and innovative ways, no question about it. But there are certain patterns of success. Give us some visibility into what you are seeing leads to success. And then what's the future of our P? A. How's that gonna involve over the next few years? >>Sure. Um, R P has been deployed across virtually every industry and virtually every department, so there are many ways to get started in All of them are right. But often we find is that you can either start in a central organization where in terror organization is doing everything centrally. It is a great way to get started. But eventually we learned that the Federated Way is the best way to end where hundreds of offices all over the world, if you are especially large organization, each business unit is doing it with I t providing governments and central security and policies and an actual bots running and being implemented all over the world eventually for a large gilt transformation. That is a common pattern we have seen among successful customers. >>And where do you think this is? Houses pattern going to evolve as enterprises gained more familiarity with it, innovating new and interesting ways and his automation anywhere, and others advance the state of the art. Where do you think it's gonna end up? >>The read is going is is I define it as an app store experience or a Google play experience. So if you think about how we operate over mobile devices today, if you want something on your device, you would look for a nap that does that. We're getting to a point where there is bought for everything in a digital worker for everything. So if you need certain job done, you first go to a what store? Uh that is an automation anywhere website. Look for about that. Does something higher or download that Bart. Get the work done and it comes pre built. Like many. There are works with BMC Felix on many of those, So s. So that is your 1st 1st way you will look, look for getting your work done in a new body economy. And if it if there's no but available, then you look for other options. It will transform how we work and how we think of >>work. In many respects, it's the gig economy with perfect contractor, and it's that leads to some very in string challenges. Ultimately, we start thinking about service Is so Ni aki based on what me here just talked about. Where does digital service is go as our P A joins other classes of users in creating those new experiences at new Prophet points and new value propositions, >>it becomes a competitive. How you provide that service can become a big competitive sensation for financial institutions. For telcos, which is a service industry, right, you're providing that service and, like two meters point, then the user hits that switch. They expect the light to come on If I'm an end user, that consumer warning a service from my telco provider, all from my, um, financial institution. I expect that service to be instantaneous at the highest accuracy accuracy at which super wide is gonna start driving competitor, official for financial institutions of financial institution Telco two Telco and that So I C companies, differentiating and really surviving are thriving in the long term. >>It's no longer becoming something that's nice to have its jacks or better in business, too. >>That's right. And the demo of the live demo that we saw today was really impressive because it sure that what would have taken a few days to happen now happens in three minutes. Right? It is, which is, which is almost the time it takes to call an uber. You know, when interpreters begin to do work at a pace that what you call an uber that's that's that's the future. Yes, it's here. >>Yes, so do I mean the demo that we do the entire enter and demo to request additional storage and being able to provisional remediating issues that we see predict cost and make it available to the end user develop whoever it is is asking for it in minutes. Alright, which used to take days and days. No, no, no, not to mention sometimes in pixels. >>It's typically done faster at scale, with greater reliability. Greater greater security, Certainly greater predictability, et cetera. All right. Here. Shukla, CEO of automation Anywhere. Yeah. Kenny, our president off the dental Service is and operations management division at BMC. Thanks both of you for being on the Cube. >>Thank you. >>Thank you. >>Once again, I'm Peter Burress and I want to thank you for participating in this cube conversation from Santa Clara Marriott at B M sees helix immersion days until next time.

(funky music) >> From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this is a Cube Conversation. >> Hi, welcome to another Wikibon digital community event, this one sponsored by BMC Software. Every organization faces the challenge of how to do service management and operations management better. The ideal is to start bringing them together, but traditionally, they've been undertaken by different groups, often utilizing different tools. And that's what we're going to talk about today in today's digital community event. What can we do to improve our digital business operations, competitiveness, and customer experience, by doing a better job of bringing together those core resources that handle service management and operations management activities. As with all digital community events, this one's going to feature some upfront conversations with a number of thought leaders in this crucial space, and then we're going to run a crowd chat, which will be your opportunity to share your insights, ask your questions, and ultimately, communicate with others like you in the community that focuses on this important issue. So stay through to the end and help us participate in that digital community event. Now, recently, I had an opportunity to attend BMC Helix's Immersion Day, and while there, theCUBE was able to conduct a number of different interviews. One of the best ones we had was a great conversation with Nayaki Nayyar, who is the president of service management and operations management at the BMC Helix division, and Mihir Shukla, who is the CEO of Automation Anywhere. Let's hear what they had to say about the potential of bringing service management and operations management together. >> So, Nayaki, I want to start with you. A year ago, we started on this journey of how this new digital services platform is going to evolve to do more types of work for people. How has BMC's Helix platform evolved in that time? >> So, if you remember last time, it was almost a year back when we launched Helix, which was all around taking the service management capability that we had on prem, made it available in Cloud, containerized, so customers can run in cloud of their choice, and provided experience through various channels, bought as a channel of that customer experience. This is what we had released last time, we call it the three C's for Helix, everything in cloud, containerized, with cognitive capabilities, so customers can transform their experience. In this version, what we are extending Helix is with the operations side, so all the ITOM capabilities that we have in our platform are now a part of Helix, so we have one end-to-end platform, so that customers can discover every asset that they have on prem and cloud, monitor those assets, detect any anomalies, service both for lines of business and for IT, remediate any issues that happen, vulnerabilities that are there in the system, and automatically optimize capacity and cost and holistically, this whole closed loop of operations and service coming together is what this next wave of innovations that we are launching with BMC Helix. >> So, Mihir, Nayaki's talked about, very successfully, and Helix has been a very successful platform for improving user experience, but up front I noted that we're not just talking about human beings as users anymore, we're now talking about software as users. RPA, robotic process automation, is a central feature of some of these new trends. Tell us a little bit about how robotic process automation is driving an increased need for this kind of digital service in operations management capability. >> Sure, think in a high level, you have to think of the new organization as augmented organization that are human and bots working side by side, each doing what they're best at. And so in a specific example of a service organization, where BMC Helix is taking this is, think of this as a utility, where the way you plug it into an electricity outlet and switch on the light and you get the electricity, you plug into the BMC Helix, and behind it you have augmented workflows of chart bots, RPA bots, human beings, each doing what they're best at, and giving a far superior customer experience, unlike any other. That is happening now, and that's the future of service industry. >> But when you plug a human, so to speak, metaphorically, into that system, there's a certain amount of time, there's a certain amount of training, and as a consequence you can have a little bit more predictable scale. That doesn't mean that you don't end up with a lot of complexity, but RPA seems, the potential of RPA seems that you're going to increase the rate at which these users, in this case, digital users, are going to enter into the system, you don't have a training regimen you can attach to them, they have to be tested, they have to be discovered, they have to be put in operation with reliability, how is that ultimately driving the need for some of these new capabilities? >> I think if you think of these bots as digital workers, you almost have to go through the same process that you would go through human beings. You onboard them, in terms of, you configure them, you train them with cognitive capabilities, and then the one difference is they monitor themselves, without any bias, they can give their own performance rating card. But the beauty of this is when human and bots work together, because there are some functions that the bots can do well and then at some point they can hand off to the human beings, and human beings do some of the more interesting work that is based on judgment call, customer service, all of that. So that the combination is the end goal for everybody. >> And to add to what Mihir said, right, that customer experience, whether you're providing an experience to employees or consumers or end customers, that is the ultimate goal, that's the ultimate result of what you want to get, and the speed at which you provide that experience is the accuracy at which you provide experience, the cost at which you provide that experience becomes a comparative differentiation, which is where all this automation, this augmentation that they're doing with humans and bots, is what enables us to do that, right? For all large enterprise customers, major service organizations trying to transform into that future goal. >> But increasingly it seems as though the things that we have to do, to orchestrate and administrate, more users, digital and human, undertaking more complex tasks where each is best applied, is really driving a lot of new data, as I mentioned upfront, an enormous amount of new software, and you said new experiences, but those experiences have to be reliable, have to be secure, they have to be predictable. So that suggests this overwhelming impact of all of these capabilities. You talk about a digital tsunami. What are some of the key things that you think enterprises are going to have to do to start engaging that? >> Yeah, and whether we call it revolution, whether we call it digital transformation, I think what we all are experiencing is a tsunami, tech tsunami, right, tsunami of clouds where you have professional clouds, private clouds, hybrid clouds, managed clouds. Tsunami of devices, not just the mobile devices, but also as everything is getting connected, IoT devices. Tsunami of channels, as an end user, I want to experience that in the channel of my preference, Slack as a channel, SM as a channel. A tsunami of bots, of conversation bots and RPA bots, so in this tsunami, I think what everyone is trying to figure out is, how do they manage this explosion? It's humanly impossible to do it all manually you have to augment it, with of course, intelligence AIML, but then of course bots become a big part of that augmentation to orchestrate all of that back to back process. >> I would say that this is no longer nice to have, because if you look at it from a more consumer's perspective, last 20 years of digital technologies from Amazons and Googles of the world, Netflix and others, they have created this mindset of instant customer gratification. And we all been trained for it, so what was acceptable five years ago is no longer acceptable in our own lives. And so this new standard of instant result, instant outcome, instant respond, instant delivery, we just expect it, right? Once your end consumer begins to do that, we as a business no longer have a choice, that's writing on the wall. And so what these new platforms are doing, like with BMC Helix and Automation Anywhere, is delivering that instant gratification, right? And when you think about it more and more of the new customers that are millennials, they don't know any other way. So for them, this is the only experience they will relate to, so again, this is not nice to have. It is the only way world will operate, right? >> We're going to turn back to the conversation that I had with Nayaki and Mihir shortly, but first, let's see what BMC's actually doing as they try to bring together service management and operations management, by watching a quick demo that they've prepared. (techno music) (music continues) >> Great demonstration of how these technologies are coming together in a real world sense. Now let's hear more of the conversation I had with Nayaki and Mihir about bringing together service management and operations management, but specifically focusing on how this class of technology is going to be extended, and made even more powerful for business as they think about not just IT, but other classes of automation. Let's hear what they had to say. >> So if you look at large organizations, they have vast amount of applications. Sometimes 400, 800, few thousand. And what we have been doing historically is using people as a human bridges between these applications, and we have operated that way for too long, and that's the world today. >> So humans are the interface, they're the system interfaces. >> Humans are the bridges between applications, and we often call it a swivel chair operations, that's an easiest way to describe it. So what Automation Anywhere does, is it offers this technology platform, robotic process automation, AI in an RTX platform, that integrates all of it together into a seamless automation bot that can go across, and with AI it can make intelligent choices. And so now we can take that, combined with the BMC Helix, and you have a seamless service platform that can deliver a superior experience. >> So we've got now the swivel chair users, now being software, which means that we can discover them more easily, we can monitor them more easily, and that feeds Helix. >> Absolutely, so you know in our consumer world, in our day to day life, we are used to a certain experience of how we consume data or consume experiences with our TVs and all the channels. That experience that we have in our day to day life is what people expect when they walk into the company, right, walk into the enterprise, which every IT organization is trying to figure out how do they get to that level of maturity. So this is what the combination of what we are doing with Helix and Automation Anywhere, brings that consumer grid experiences into an enterprise world. >> So Mihir, when we think about RPA, we're applying it in interesting and innovative ways, no question about it. But there are certain patterns of success, give us some visibility into what you are seeing leads to success, and then what's the future of RPA, how's that going to evolve over the next few years? >> Sure, so RPA has been deployed across virtually every industry and virtually every department. So there are many ways to get started and all of them are right. But often we find is that you can either start in a central organization wherein that organization is doing everything centrally. It is a great way to get started, but eventually we learn that the federated way's the best way to end. Where hundreds of offices all over the world, if you're especially a large organization, each business unit is doing it with IT providing governance and central security and policies, and actual bots running and being implemented all over the world. Eventually for a large-scale transformation, there is a common pattern we have seen among successful customers. >> And where do you think this pattern going to evolve, as enterprises gain more familiarity with it, innovate in new and interesting ways, and as Automation Anywhere and others advance the state of the art, where do you think it's going to end up? >> The rate it's going is, is I define it as an app store experience or a Google Play experience. So if you think about how we operate our mobile devices today, if you want something on your device, you will look for an app that does that. We are getting to a point where there is bot for everything, and a digital worker for everything, so if you need certain job done, you first go to a bot store, that is an Automation Anywhere website, look for a bot that does something, hire or download that bot, get the work done, and it comes prebuilt like many there are works with BMC Helix, and many others. So that is your first way you will look for getting your work done in a new bot economy, and if there's no bot available, then you look for other options. It will transform how we work and how we think of work. >> In many respects, it's the gig economy with perfect contractor, right? And it leads to some very interesting challenges, ultimately, when we start thinking about services. So Nayaki, based on what Mihir just talked about, where does digital services go as RPA joins other classes of users in creating those new experiences at new profit points and new value propositions? >> It becomes a compare of how you provide that service, can become a big competitive differentiation for financial institutions, for Telcos, which is a service industry, right, you provide that service, and like to Mihir's point, when the user hits that switch, they expect the light to come on, so if I'm an end user, the consumer, wanting a service from my Telco provider or from my financial institution, I expect that service to be instantaneous, and the highest accuracy, accuracy at which you provide is going to start driving competitive differentiation from financial institution to financial institution, Telco to Telco, and that's how I see companies differentiating and really surviving or thriving in the long term. >> Now let's hear from a really important partner, a CDO, someone who's thinking about how these technologies are going to be applied to the front lines of business change. Sanjay Srivastava is the CDO at Genpact, and he and I had a great conversation at BMC Immersion Days about what this means to digital business transformation. How will service management and operations management in combination accelerate and make more successful businesses' efforts to transform digitally. Let's hear what Sanjay had to say. >> So tell us a little bit about, what is a digital service outcome and why is it so important? >> Yeah, well I think the reality is that what technology is doing is it's disintermediating the ecosystem, so many of the industries are clients-operated, and they have to go back and reimagine their value proposition at the core of what they do with the use of new, innovative technologies, and it's that intersection of new capabilities, of new innovative business models that really use emerging technologies, but intersect them with their business models, with their business processes, and the requirements of their clients, and help them rethink, reimagine, and deliver their new value proposition. That's really what it's all about. >> So a digital service outcome would then be the things that the business must do and must do well, but ideally, with a different experience or with a different degree of flexibility and agility, or with a different cost profile, have I got that right? >> Correct. >> So when we think about that, what are some of the key elements of a digital service success? >> We like to think about three critical success factors in driving any digital transformation. The first one is the notion of experience, and what I mean by that is not user interface for a piece of software, but the journey of a customer, an employee, a provider, a partner, in engaging with you and your business model. When we think about journey mapping that scientifically, we think about design, thinking on the back of that, and we think about re-imagining what the new experience looks like. One of the largest things we've got in the industry is digital transformation on the back of cost take out of productivity or efficiency is insufficient drive and optimize the value that digital can bring. And using experience as the compass, as sort of the north star in that journey is a meaningful differentiator and driver of business benefit, so that's number one. I think the second area that's become increasingly apparent is the intersection of domain with digital. And the thinking there is that to materialize the benefit of digital in an enterprise, you have to intersect it with the specifics of that business, how users interact, what clients seek, how does business actually happen? We talk about artificial intelligence a lot, we do a lot of work in AI as an example, and the key thing about machine learning is goal orientation, and what is goal orientation? It's about understanding the specifics of the environments, you can actually orient the goal of the machine learning algorithm to deliver high accuracy results. And it's something that can often easily get overlooked, so indexing on the two halves of the whole, the yin and the yang, the piece around digital, and the innovative technologies, and being able to leverage and take advantage of them, but equally, be founded in domain, understand the environment, and use that knowledge to drive the right materialization of the end outcome. And that's the second critical success factor, I think, to get it right. I think the third one is the notion of how do you build a framework for innovation? You know, it's not the sort of thing where a large fortune company, Fortune 500 companies can necessarily experiment and it's a little bit of a go happy go lucky strategy, doesn't really work, you have to innovate at scale, you have to do it in a fundamental fashion, you have to do it as a critical success factor. And so one of the biggest things we focus on is how do you innovate at the edge? Innovation must be at the edge, this is where the rubber meets the road. But governance has to be at the core. >> Well let me build on that for a second, 'cause you said innovation's at the edge, so basically that means where the brand promise is being enacted for the customer, and that could be at an industrial automation setting or it could be in just making a recommendation, it could be any number of things, but it's where the value proposition is realized for the customer. >> Correct, that's exactly right, and that's where innovation must happen. So as a large corporation, you must be able, it's important to set up a framework that allows you to do innovation at the edge, otherwise it's not meaningful innovation if you, "Well, it's just a lot of busy work." And yet as you do that, and as you change your business model, as you bring new components to the equation, how do you drive governance, and it's increasingly becoming more important, you think about, we're going to be in a AI first world increasingly, more and more that's the reality of the world we're going in, and in that AI first world, I work here in Palo Alto, walk into my office, a couple of hundred people any given day. If tomorrow morning I walked in and 100 people didn't show up for work, I would know right away, because I can see them. Now fast forward to an environment where we have digital workers, we have automation bots, we have conversational AI Chatbots. And in that world, understanding which of my AI components are on, which ones are off, which ones showed up for work today, which ones fell sick, and really being able to understand that governance, and that's just the productivity piece of it. Then you think about data and security, AI changes complete dimensions on that. And you think about bias and explainability, it just become increasingly important, a notion of a digital ethics board, and thinking about ethics more pervasively. So I think that companies and clients we serve that do really well in digital transformation are those that key in on those three things, the notion of experience is the true compass for how you drive transformation. The ability to intermix domain and digital in a meaningfully intersecting fashion. And to be thoughtful, proactive, and get governance right up front in the journey to come. >> So let me again build on that a little bit, 'cause people are increasingly recognizing that we're not going to centralize with cloud, we're going to greater distribute. We're going to distribute data more, we're going to distribute function more, but you just added another dimension, that some of us have been thinking about for a long time, and that's this notion of distributing authorities so that an individual at the edge can make the decision based on the data and the resources that are available, with the appropriate set of authorities, and that has to be handled at a central, in a overall coherent governant way. So that leads to the next question. >> And just before you go there, I mean I think the best example of that, is we do that, most corporations do that really well in the financial scheme of things. Businesses at the edge make decisions on a day to day basis on pricing and relationships and so on and so forth, and yet there's a central other committee that looks through the financials and makes sure it meets the right requirements and has the right framework, and much in the same way, we're going to start seeing digital ethics committees that become part of these large corporations as they think about digitizing the business. >> Governance at the end of the day is how do you orchestrate multiple divergent claims against a common set of assets, and being able to do that is absolutely essential, and it leads to this notion of we've got these ideas of digital business, digital services and operations management. How are we going to weave them together utilizing some of these new technologies, new fabrics that are now possible to both achieve the outcomes we're talking about at scale and at speed? >> Yeah, well the technology capabilities are improving really well in that area, and so the good news is they're the set of tools that are now available that give you the ingredients, the components of the recipe that's required to make dinner, if you will. The work that needs to happen is actually how to orchestrate that, to figure out which components need to come in, and how do you pull together a vertical stack that has the right components to meet your needs today, and more importantly, to address the needs of the future, because this is changing like no other time in history. >> You want options with everything you do now, you want to make sure that you have a string of options for the future, and it's especially important here. >> That's right, that's exactly right. And the quick framework we've established there is sort of the three-legged stool of, how do you integrate quickly, how do you modularize your investments and then how do you govern them into one integrated whole, and those become really important. I'll give you examples, much of the work we do, we'll work with a consumer bank for instance, and they'll want to do a robotic process automation engagement, we'll run them for nine months, they'll get 1800 robots up and running. And the next question becomes, well now we have all this data that we didn't really have, because now we have an RPA running, how do I learn some machine learning insights from there, and so we then work with them to actually derive some insights and get these questions answered. And then the engagement changes to, well now that we have this pattern recognition then we understand more questions are going to be asked, how do I respond to those questions, A, automatically, and before they get asked, this notion of next best action. And so you think about that journey of a traditional client, the requirements change from robotics to machine learning to conversational AI to something else, and keeping that string of investments, that innovative sort of streak true, and yet being able to manage, govern, and protect the investments, that's the key role. >> We want to thank all the thought leaders that participated in preparing their thoughts for this digital community event, especially the folks at BMC Software. But now here's your opportunity to weigh in on how you see service management and operations management coming together in your business. How's it going to affect your IT organization, your IT organization's ability to serve your business, and your business overall? This is your opportunity to participate in a crowd chat where the community comes together and shares insights, asks each other questions, and engages with these thought leaders to try to get the answers that you need to move forward on the journey to bring together service management and operations management in your shop. Let's crowd chat!

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering VMworld 2018. Brought to you by VMware and its eco-system partners. >> Hello, everyone. We are here live in Las Vegas for theCUBE's exclusive coverage for three days, VMworld 2018. I'm John Furrier with my co-host Stu Miniman. Our next guest is Andy Bechtolsheim who's the founder and chief development officer and chairman of Arista Networks. More importantly, he's also the co-founder of Sun Microsystems. Invested in Larry and Sergey when they were in their PhD programs. Legend in the industry. Great to have you on. Super excited to have you join this conversation. >> A pleasure to be here today. >> So, first question is, besides all the luminary things you've done in your career, what's it like working with Jayshree at Arista? >> Well, I actually met Jayshree 30 years ago when she was at AMD selling us SDDR chips at Sun Microsystems, so I guess this dates both of us, but I worked with her, of all the years when I was at Cisco, obviously, and then we both start at Arista in 2008. So we have both been there now for 10 years together. In fact, our 10-year anniversary's coming up next month. >> Jayshree's a great Cube alumni. She's an amazing person. Great technologist, we miss her. Wish she was here, having more conversations with us on the Cube, but stepping back, over your career you've seen many ways of innovation. You were involved in all of them, big ones happening. Semi-conductor computers, and now with Arista going forward and now Cloud, did you know the rocket ship of Arista was going to be this big? I mean, when you designed it at the beginning, what was the itch you were scratching, and did you know it was going to be a rocket ship? >> Well, we had some very early, what led to the founding of Arista was, we had lunch with our best friends at Google, and Larry himself told me that the biggest problem they had was not service, but actually the networking, and scaling that to the future size of their data centers, and they were going go off to build their own network, products because there was no commercial product on the market that would meet that need, so we thought with the emergence of Immersion Silicon We could make a contribution there, and the focus of the company was actually on the cloud networking from the very beginning, even though that wasn't even fell in this industry as being a major opportunity. So when we shipped our first products in 2009, 2010 many of them besides we had some business on Wall Street on latency, but the majority of the opportunity was over the cloud. >> It's interesting you mention the Google and Larry and Sergey, Larry in particular about that time in history, you go back and look at what Google was doing at that particular time, and now what they talk about at Google Cloud. They were building their own large-scale system, and there was massive scale involved. >> Yeah they had about a hundred thousand servers in the early 2004 before they went public, now they have, who knows how many millions, right? And all of course the latest technology now. So the sheer size of the cloud, the momentum the cloud has, I think was hard to forecast. We did think there was going to be a shift, but the shift was in fact more rapid than we expected. >> Andy, you talked about cloud networking, but today we still see there's such a huge discrepancy between what networking is happening in the data center and the networking that's happening in the hyperscalers. At this show, we're starting to hear about some of the multi-cloud, you had some integrations between Arista and VMware that are starting to pull some of those together. Maybe you could give us a little bit about what you're seeing between, you know, the data center and the enterprise versus the hyperscalers, when it comes to networking. >> So the data enterprise has still largely what we would call a legacy approach networking, which dates back, you know, 10, 20, 30 years, and many of those networks are still in place and progressing very slowly. But there also are enterprise customers who want to take advantage of what the cloud has done in terms of cloud networking, including the much further scalability, the much further resiliency, the much greater automation, so all of these benefits do imply equally well to the enterprise. But it is a transition for customers, you know, to fully embrace that. So the work we are doing together with VMware on integrating our cloud vision, our physical swiches with the microsegrentation is one element of that. But the bigger topic is simply an enterprise that wants to move into the future really should look at how did the cloud people build their networks, how can they run a very large data center with, you know, 10 network admins instead of, you know, hundreds of people. And especially the automation that we've been able to provide to our customers, automating updating of software, being able to bring out new releases into a running network without bringing the network down. You know, nobody could even think about doing that 10 years ago. >> Yeah, you bring up a great point about automation. In the keynote this morning, Pat Gelsinger talked about, what was it, 39 years ago he did something in intel, said we're going to do AI. Didn't quite call it AI back then, but he said, and now, we're starting to see the fruits of what come out. In the networking world, we've been talking about for decades, automating the network more. You've lived through the one gig, 10 gig, 40 gig, 400 gig you're talking about. Are we ready for automation now? Is now that moment in networking? >> I think that we were ready for 30 years, but the weird thing is, there always was a control planted in network, you know, the routing protocols, but for management there was never really a true management plan, meaning the legacy way is you dial in with S and a P into each switch and configure, your access is manually more or less, and that's really a bad way of doing it because humans do make mistakes, you end up with inconsistencies and a lot of network outages virtually has been traced to literally human mistake. So our approach with what we call Cloud Vision, which is a central point that can manage the entire base of Arista switches in a data canter, its all automated. You want to update a thing, you push a button and it happens and there's no no more dialing into a S and a P, into individual switches. >> How would you advise people who were looking at the architecture of the cloud, who are re-platforming, large enterprises have been legacy all day long, you mentioned earlier just now in the CUBE, that how the cloud guys were laying out the network was fundamental how they grew. How should, and how do people lay out the networks for cloud today? How do you see that? >> So the three big things that happened was, immersion silicon has taken over because it's, quote frankly, much more scalable than traditional chips. And that's just the hardware, right? Then the leaf-spine architecture that really our customers pioneered but is the standard in the cloud. It is use ECP for load balancing, it works. It's the most resilient, maybe the one thing, the single most important thing of the cloud is, no outages, no down time, the network works. No excuses, right? [Laughter] And our customers tell us that with our products and the leaf-spine approach, they have a better experience in terms of resiliency than any other vendor. So that's a very strong endorsement and that's as relevant to an enterprise customer as to a cloud customer. And then the automation benefit. Now, to get the automation benefit, you have to standardize on the new way of doing it, that's true, but it's just such a reduction in complexity and simplification. You can actually look at this as an Opex saving opportunity, quite frankly, and in the cloud they wouldn't have it any other way, they couldn't afford it. They're very large data centers. And they only could offer these things in a fully automatic fashion. >> Andy, I want to get your reaction to what Pat Gelsinger said on stage this morning. He said, in the old days, I'm paraphrasing, the network would dictate what the applications could do, it would enable that, and we saw an enabling capability. Now with Cloud, the apps can program the network, I'm paraphrasing that. As networks become more programmable and no outages, he made a quote, he said, the old adage was the network is the computer, the new adage is, the application is a network. >> Okay so let me sort of translate this, so. >> What's your reaction to those things? >> Sounds like an old Sun slogan, doesn't it? >> Translate that for us. >> So, the virtual networking, the NSX environment which provides security at the application level, right, it's the natural way to do network security. Cuz, you really want to be as close to the application as you can physically be, or virtually be, which is right in the VM environment. So VMware clearly has the best position in the industry to provide that level of security, which is all software, softlevel networking, you do your, you know, security policies at that level. Where we come in is, with Cloud Vision now, we have announced a way to integrate with NSX Microsegmentation, such that we can learn the policies and map them back down to the access list of the physical network to further enhance that security. So we don't actually create a separate silo for yet another policy management, we truly offer it within their policy framework, which means you have the natural segmentation between the security engineers which manages future policies and networking engineers that manage the physical network. >> Highly optimized for the environment >> Which actually works. >> Is that what you call Macrosegmentation then on the University side? >> Well we used to call it macro but it's part of their micro thing because we truly learn their policies. So if you update a policy, it gets reflected back down to cloud vision and your physical networks and it applies to physical switches, physical assets, physical servers, mainstream storage, whatnot, right? So it's a very smooth integration and we think it's a demo at this point but it will work and it's an open framework that allows us to work with VMware. >> Let me ask you a personal question. Looking at the industry, even look back in history as an illustration. TCPIP opened up remember the old OSI stack that everyone tried to do that. TCPIP opened up so much on networking, internetworking, is there a technology enabler in Cloud that you see that's going to have that kind of impact? Is it an NSX? How do customers going to deal with the multiple clouds? I mean, is there an interoperability framework coming, do you see a real disruptive technology enable that'll have that kind of impact that TCP spawned massive opportunity and wealth creation in start-ups and functionality? Is there a moment coming? >> So TCP of course was the proper layering of a network between the physical layer, layer one layer two, and the routing or the internet layer, which is layer three. And without that, this is back to the old intern argument, we wouldn't have what we have today on data. That was the only rational way to build an architecture that could actually, and I'm not sure people had a notion in 1979 when TCP was submitted that it would become that big, they probably would have picked a bigger adverse space, but it was not just the longevity but the impact it had was just phenomenal, right? Now, and that applied in terms of connectivity and how many things you have to sell with measure to talk from Point A to B. The NSX level of network management is a little different because it's much higher level. It's really a management plan, back to the point I made earlier about management plans, that allows you to integrate a cloud on your premise with what an Amazon or at IBM or the future Google and so on, in a way that you can have full visibility and you see you know exactly what's going on, all the security policies. Like, this has been a dream for people to deliver, but it requires to actually have a reasonable amount of code in each of these places. Both on your server, it's not just a protocol, it's an implementation of a co-ability, right? And, we are aware NSX is the best solution that's available today that I could see for that use-case, which is going to be very important to a large number of enterprises, many of which want to have a smooth connection between on-premise and off-premise, and in the future to add TelCo and other things to the bloody run of VMenvironment today. But that will allow them to be fully securely linked into social network. >> So you see that as a leading product in Connect. >> It's definitely a leading product. They have the most customers the most momentum the most market share, there isn't anything even close in terms of the, call it the software-defined networking layer, which is what NSX implements. And we are very proud to partner with them at the physical layer to interact with their policies. >> You think that's going to have an impact of accelerating the multi-cloud world? >> Yes because, the whole point about multi-cloud is it has to be sort of vendor-independent or, I don't know, vendor-neutral. You are going to see solutions from Amazon and Azzure to bring their own sort of public load into the premise. But that only works with their package, right? >> Yeah. >> So there will be other offerings there but in terms of true multi-cloud, I don't see any competition. >> Andy, we'd love to get your viewpoint on the future of ethernet. I hear so many people the last few years that it's like well, on the processor side Moor's Laws played out. We can't get smaller. On the ethernet side, there's not going to be the investment to be able to help get us to the next generation, there's limits in the technology, you've lived through so many of these architectural changes. Are we at the end of innovation for ethernet? >> Not at all. So, my history with ethernet dates back 40 years. So, I worked on the first three mega-ethernet 0x parts til. Then it was 10 mega-bit, hundred mega-bit, gigabit and forty hundred and now 400 coming out. So, ethernet speed transitions are really just substitutions of the previous layer to technology meaning, assuming they're more cost-effective, they do get adopted very quickly. Of course, you need the right optics, you need the right equipment, but it's a very predictable road map. I mean, I guess, it's not like adopting a new protocol, right? It's just faster. And more, and with cost efficient. So, we are on the verge of 400 gigabits becoming available in the market. It will really roll out at any kind of volume next calendar year and then it will pick up volume next year in 2000. But in the meanwhile, 100 meg ethernet- excuse me, 100 gigabit ethernet is still the fastest growing thing the industry's ever seen. Even from a million ports back in 2016, to call it five million ports last calendar year expected to what 10 million ports this year, expected 20 million ports next year. But this is a speed of adoption that's unheard of. And we are at Arista we are fortunate enough to be actually the market leader on gigabit adoption. We have shipped more hundred-gig ports than any vendor including Cisco for the last three years. So our ability to embrace new speeds and bring new technologies to market is, I would say, unparalleled. We have a very good track record there and we are working really hard, sort of burning the midnight oil to extend this to the 400-gig era, which is going to be another important upgrade, especially in the cloud. I should mention that the cloud is the early adopter of all the higher speeds. Those in the hundred gig will be more than 400-gig. I'm not sure too many enterprises need 400-gig but the cloud is ready to get going as soon as it's cost effective. >> Andy, for the folks that are looking at this 20 year wave coming that we're seeing kind of cloud has been talked about on stage and here on theCUBE. Oh, it's going to be a 20 year run, transforming the infrastructure. What's the in your minds eye, what do you see as the most disruptive thing that people aren't talking about in networking? What's going to be some things that might happen in the next 10 years in your mind that might happen that people aren't really aware of, that might not see it coming, any ovations on the horizon that you're excited about or people might not expect? >> Yeah well the cloud trend is fairly predictable. I would say, all the IDC, all the analysts have predicted like that are big numbers on adoption have been pretty spot on. And if you look at the annual growth rate for cloud adoption it's 40, 45, 50 and more percent. Now there's a good question of course how the big cloud winners in the end will compete against each other. You got Amazon, that's the biggest, Microsoft is actually growing purely faster than Amazon right now but they have some catching up to do. And Google working overtime to get bigger. They may differentiate in terms of their specific focus, for example, Google has a lot AI technology, internally, that they have used for their own business, and with this influence they're arguably ahead of others, and they may just bet the farm on AI and big data analytics and things like that, which are very compelling business opportunities for any enterprise customer. So the potential value that can be created deploying AI correctly is in the perhaps trillions of dollars the next 10 years, but it probably doesn't make sense for a company for most companies to build their own AI data center, that you need a huge capital expense a huge, what hardware to use, it's going to evolve very quickly. So that maybe one of the classical cases where, you won't actually start on the cloud, and the only reason ever moving on site is your well defined environment, right, so I would actually say it's the new applications that may start in the cloud, that haven't even rolled out in volume, like AI, that will may be the biggest change that people didn't expect. >> Final question, what's the future of Arista? >> We're just working really hard to, you know, be the best provider of products, making the best products for our customers, both for the cloud and for enterprise. One thing I was going to mention about Arista is that people think we're selling network boxes which is what is which we do. But the vast majority of our investment's actually software and not hardware. So we have over 90% of our R&D headcount is in software and so the right way to think about it is actually we are a software company not really a hardware company and the saying we have internally is that hardware is easy software is hard because it's actually true. Software is much much harder than building hardware these days and the EOS software sells well over 10 million slants of codes written by over thousands of man years of engineering. So it has been a tremendous journey we've been on, but we're still scratching the surface of what we can do. >> And the focus of the software obviously makes sense. Software defined is driving everything. What are the key focus areas on the software that you guys are looking at? What's the key priorities for Arista? >> We have talked about extending our business beyond the data center into the campus. We announced our very first acquisition recently which is actually a wifi company, but I can guarantee you it's going to be a very software-defined wifi network, not a legacy controller-based approach right, for enterprise, right? We're not that interested in the hardware we're interested in providing managed solutions to our customers. >> A lot of IOT action on Andy. Thanks for taking the time to come on theCUBE. Really appreciate it. Great to meet you and have you on theCUBE. Great conversation here, it's theCUBE. I'm John Furrier. Stu Miniman breaking down all the top coverage of VMworld 2018 getting the input and the commentary from industry legends and also key leaders in the innovation cloud networking. This is theCUBE. Stay with us for more after this short break. [Technical Music]