>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent 2018, brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. >> And welcome back to Las Vegas. We are live here at AWS re:Invent along with Justin Moore and I'm John Wallis. I know when you travel these days, all you want is, you want it to work, right? >> Yeah. >> We just want to get there. Well, I'll tell you what, Phil Wood from EasyJet wants you to get there as well. As does Matt Leonard from CenturyLink. Gentlemen, glad to have you with us. >> Thanks very much. >> We appreciate it. >> EasyJet, a European-based carrier just north of London, so we're talking about air travel. You are, as we've just recently learned, you are a Catalyst Award winner from CenturyLink, there's a reason for that and that's a point of distinction. So Matt, if you would maybe take us through a little bit about what EasyJet did to earn that distinction. >> Sure, the Catalyst Award is an award that we give out in combination with VMware to kind of highlight customers that are doing new and exciting things with regard to digital transformation. We've been a provider of services and a partner with EasyJet for a long time and they've done some really cool things with regard to services they provide their end customers. And we play a very very small part of that. Two exciting things that are my personal favorites with regard to EasyJet is the Look and Book service. So within the application if you want to book a new trip you normally have to type in the airport that you want to go to, and you have to figure out what's the name of the airport, or the three-digit code. With the EasyJet application you can upload a picture and it has intelligence that's used to figure out that picture and what that landmark is and then what the nearest airport is. So that's pretty exciting. And the second exciting thing within the application >> is a trip in one tap. So you can basically justdial in how much money you want to spend for a trip, hit the Go button, in literally one tap it'll recommend a city, a hotel, and a fun and exciting thing that's happening during that duration of time. So for last minute travelers, my family's certainly one of those, we got a free period of time, one tap it'll tell you where to stay, how to get there with EasyJet and then what's exciting happening within that city. >> So I could put in, I say, I want to spend 300 dollars a ticket, and tap boom, and it'll say you can go to Brussels, you can go to Amsterdam but you can't make it to Dublin this weekend, right? Or whatever. I love that. So what has that done for your business in terms of, on a micro level and a macro level, what's it doing in terms of that interface and what's it mean to your business in general? >> As a business, we're 23 years old, so we started very much like a startup and we kind of came in at low-cost airline bracket. But now what we're renowned for is the convenience, and you've got two examples there where our customers love that because it's a convenient way. They don't have to do lots of searching, they can just take the photograph and they know exactly where they're going to go. And that's really what differentiates us is that convenience and the customer experience that we offer to all of our customers. We have a lot of customers. We have 90 million passengers a year. They come to us because they know not just that we give great value but that experience. So what it's done, it's made us grow. And that's literally how we continue to grow is to expand those customer services and Centurylink have been a part of that journey for over half of our tenure as an airline. >> It sounds like technology is actually right on the edge of driving that value for customers and making things easy. Like just the experience of being able to walk out and take a photo of something and say, I want to go here. I would like to go out and see if I can trick it by taking a photo of the Eiffel Tower out in the back here. >> We'll go and try it out in a bit. >> I'm confident. >> We'll see how it goes. That's making use of a whole bunch of technologies. It's got mobile technology in there, it's got image recognition, it's got machine learning. What else are you seeing at the show here at AWS, what are some of the technologies that you think will drive the next evolution of things, what's going to win you the next award? >> I think one of the things I've really been looking at is around data and around the personalization. So we talked about customer experience but our whole journey of taking a plane, taking a holiday, for example, it's from the moment you book it to the moment you get back. There's so many touch points during that and there's so much data that we can take from that. So I've been really interested in looking at how different organizations and how Amazon have been using data. I also think you can't come to a show like this without looking at machine learning and AI. We're using aspects of that in how we analyze our data, but that's certainly something I think's going to change the airline industry moving forward. >> How important is a partnership with someone like CenturyLink in making sure that you get the best use of these technologies? >> Matt talked about that they have a small part to play but you've got to understand that every single customer, every single search on our website goes through a network. In order for us to connect to our customers, be they booking a flight, be they on a flight, we've got to go through a reliable network. And the way I describe it, it needs to be effortless. It needs to just work. You mentioned that right at the beginning. But I also think as well for us to exploit technologies like the cloud, which is what we're starting to invest a lot more into, we need a partner who can help us on that journey. So again, that's where CenturyLink and the partnership we've got has been absolutely crucial. The things that we're doing with CenturyLink around making sure that we're only paying for our network for what we use. We're an airline. Our airports are seasonal so kind of traditional networks, what you'll end up doing is paying for bandwidth all year, when in the winter seasons if you're not flying there that's dead money. So it's simple things like that but that makes a huge difference towards my cost base perspective. >> And time of day, I assume that affects that as well? >> Absolutely. I mean, clearly in our summer periods we fly a lot, so time of day during the summer, there's not that many hours we don't fly. >> You get a lot of daylight over there, right? (laughter) >> But certainly in winter where we have our kind of summer destinations, it makes a big big difference. And that's cost we pass on to the customer as well which is massively important. >> What is it about the customer that you don't know? You talked about AI, what that could do for you down the road. How much information, how much data do you think you can extract from the customer to make that experience even better, and what do you need to know about them, and how will CenturyLink help you get there? >> You need to know everything. I mean, we know that we sell a hundred seventy million bacon sandwiches a year. Whether that's useful or not, but we know that. >> There's hungry people. >> That's a lot of bacon. >> It is a lot. But it means that we know the type of food that our customers want to eat, we know the top destinations, even knowing how long between booking a flight and actually flying. So we know from a price perspective and from a making sure our planes are full or making sure we're not overselling our flights. All of that information, there's just a wealth of data that you're getting out there. And it's not just customers. One of the big factors for us is safety. So we use our data now to analyze maintenance. So we have predicted maintenance around when's the right time to put in spare parts but also what's the most efficient time so that we're not disrupting the customer. So actually we may want to bring a maintenance cycle sooner so we can open up more routes for customers to fly when they want to. So it's very hard to answer that question cause every day we're coming up with new ideas or new bits of information that at the time we never thought we needed to know but that actually turns out to be an absolutely crucial part of our offer. >> That's not an unusual thing for most people in a world where there's this much dynamic, this much change going on. So what process do you run through to figure out, where should we be looking to find out the next set of optimizations? Or how do you discover what is the next thing that you should work on, like where does the idea for, maybe we should build this app. Where does that come from? >> I don't think there's one model. I think what's always been at the heart of EasyJet is innovation, and we've always focused on the customer. So we have a great loyalty scheme and our customers are very loyal. We have 75% loyalty with our customers which is phenomenal. We get a lot of feedback and that feedback drives a lot of the ideas that we push forward. So I think it's a mixture of our passion, it's a mixture of our experience, but I'd say that feedback from the customer, that drives a lot of the ideas that we do moving forward. >> From the CenturyLink perspective, you received certification for the MSP designation. >> Yup. >> Working in the travel business, what does that do, or how does that MSP certification translate over to learning about a different industry, to applying different approaches, unique approaches, because it's not one size fits all. They have very, very specific challenges that you're trying to address. >> Yeah, so on a broader sense, our mission with clients like EasyJet and customers interested in the cloud is really to connect, migrate, and then manage their workloads within the cloud. That's really what we're focused on. And there's certainly commonalities within verticals but every customer's different, and really assessing, starting with the customer, and that's a common thing that I think both EasyJet as well as CenturyLink and certainly Amazon have in common, really focused on that customer journey. One of the approaches that we take through a program called CustomerLink is put the customer right in the center of the team and we've applied the Agile methodology to that customer engagement process. So we do a standup meeting once every two weeks, we do sprints once every two weeks. A lot of our customers are part of that board that we use to activate the sprint and to define priorities and what actions are. So really pulling the whole team together across different departments, focusing on the customer first, and in many cases the customer's customer first cause a lot of your priorities are based on what your customers are after, and really making sure that we're working on the right activity in a very lean way, pulling away as much waste as possible that aren't contributing to adding value to the customer journey. >> And then from your side of the fence going forward, you've mentioned four or five general areas, you've said, we could improve here, we could look at this, we could look at that. How do you prioritize and say, okay, let's focus here now and then we'll move on. So if you had to focus now, or for the next twelve months, what would that be on? >> So we've actually just relaunched our strategy. At the heart we are an airline so our priority is about being number one or number two in all the primary airports. We've got to keep that. But we also recognize from the data that the amount of our customers who will book hotels or book further products through some of our partners that's something that we can actually capitalize on. So we're looking more into holidays now. Taking that customer centricity, and how do we make the end-to-end journey for our customers so including travel to and from airport and the whole day. So that's a priority for us. Continue building our customer loyalty. So as much as we pride ourselves on loyalty, we believe there's a lot more you can do. I think the airline loyalty schemes need to be shaken up a little bit more. If you look in the retail sector or things like that they're focusing on different things. It's no longer just the case of air miles. People want speedier boarding, or they want a better experience, better seating arrangements. So we're looking at our loyalty. And then also business. We talk about, we've got really good slots for when we fly planes. And they're slots that are competitive to a business traveler. So that's our three main areas, I would say, are business, holidays, and loyalty. >> Matt, you're going to be in business for a while. I think you're okay. If you could work on legroom, I'm sold. Matt and Phil, thank you for being with us. We appreciate the time. Join us here on theCUBE. You're watching our live coverage from Las Vegas at AWS re:Invent. (electronic music)

foreign welcome back to re invent 2022 we're wrapping up four days well one evening and three solid days wall-to-wall of cube coverage I'm Dave vellante John furrier's birthday is today he's on a plane to London to go see his nephew get married his his great Sister Janet awesome family the furriers uh spanning the globe and uh and John I know you wanted to be here you're watching in Newark or you were waiting to uh to get in the plane so all the best to you happy birthday one year the Amazon PR people brought a cake out to celebrate John's birthday because he's always here at AWS re invented his birthday so I'm really pleased to have two really special guests uh former Cube host Cube Alum great wikibon contributor Stu miniman now with red hat still good to see you again great to be here Dave yeah I was here for that cake uh the twitterverse uh was uh really helping to celebrate John's birthday today and uh you know always great to be here with you and then with this you know Awesome event this week and friend of the cube of many time Cube often Cube contributor as here's a cube analyst this week as his own consultancy sarbj johal great to see you thanks for coming on good to see you Dave uh great to see you stu I'm always happy to participate in these discussions and um I enjoy the discussion every time so this is kind of cool because you know usually the last day is a getaway day and this is a getaway day but this place is still packed I mean it's I mean yeah it's definitely lighter you can at least walk and not get slammed but I subjit I'm going to start with you I I wanted to have you as the the tail end here because cause you participated in the analyst sessions you've been watching this event from from the first moment and now you've got four days of the Kool-Aid injection but you're also talking to customers developers Partners the ecosystem where do you want to go what's your big takeaways I think big takeaways that Amazon sort of innovation machine is chugging along they are I was listening to some of the accessions and when I was back to my room at nine so they're filling the holes in some areas but in some areas they're moving forward there's a lot to fix still it doesn't seem like that it seems like we are done with the cloud or The Innovation is done now we are building at the millisecond level so where do you go next there's a lot of room to grow on the storage side on the network side uh the improvements we need and and also making sure that the software which is you know which fits the hardware like there's a specialized software um sorry specialized hardware for certain software you know so there was a lot of talk around that and I attended some of those sessions where I asked the questions around like we have a specialized database for each kind of workload specialized processes processors for each kind of workload yeah the graviton section and actually the the one interesting before I forget that the arbitration was I asked that like why there are so many so many databases and IRS for the egress costs and all that stuff can you are you guys thinking about reducing that you know um the answer was no egress cost is not a big big sort of uh um show stopper for many of the customers but but the from all that sort of little discussion with with the folks sitting who build these products over there was that the plethora of choice is given to the customers to to make them feel that there's no vendor lock-in so if you are using some open source you know um soft software it can be on the you know platform side or can be database side you have database site you have that option at AWS so this is a lot there because I always thought that that AWS is the mother of all lock-ins but it's got an ecosystem and we're going to talk about exactly we'll talk about Stu what's working within AWS when you talk to customers and where are the challenges yeah I I got a comment on open source Dave of course there because I mean look we criticized to Amazon for years about their lack of contribution they've gotten better they're doing more in open source but is Amazon the mother of all lock-ins many times absolutely there's certain people inside Amazon I'm saying you know many of us talk Cloud native they're like well let's do Amazon native which means you're like full stack is things from Amazon and do things the way that we want to do things and you know I talk to a lot of customers they use more than one Cloud Dave and therefore certain things absolutely I want to Leverage The Innovation that Amazon has brought I do think we're past building all the main building blocks in many ways we are like in day two yes Amazon is fanatically customer focused and will always stay that way but you know there wasn't anything that jumped out at me last year or this year that was like Wow new category whole new way of thinking about something we're in a vocals last year Dave said you know we have over 200 services and if we listen to you the customer we'd have over two thousand his session this week actually got some great buzz from my friends in the serverless ecosystem they love some of the things tying together we're using data the next flywheel that we're going to see for the next 10 years Amazon's at the center of the cloud ecosystem in the IT world so you know there's a lot of good things here and to your point Dave the ecosystem one of the things I always look at is you know was there a booth that they're all going to be crying in their beer after Amazon made an announcement there was not a tech vendor that I saw this week that was like oh gosh there was an announcement and all of a sudden our business is gone where I did hear some rumbling is Amazon might be the next GSI to really move forward and we've seen all the gsis pushing really deep into supporting Cloud bringing workloads to the cloud and there's a little bit of rumbling as to that balance between what Amazon will do and their uh their go to market so a couple things so I think I think we all agree that a lot of the the announcements here today were taping seams right I call it and as it relates to the mother of all lock-in the reason why I say that it's it's obviously very much a pejorative compare Oracle company you know really well with Amazon's lock-in for Amazon's lock-in is about bringing this ecosystem together so that you actually have Choice Within the the house so you don't have to leave you know there's a there's a lot to eat at the table yeah you look at oracle's ecosystem it's like yeah you know oracle is oracle's ecosystem so so that is how I think they do lock in customers by incenting them not to leave because there's so much Choice Dave I agree with you a thousand I mean I'm here I'm a I'm a good partner of AWS and all of the partners here want to be successful with Amazon and Amazon is open to that it's not our way or get out which Oracle tries how much do you extract from the overall I.T budget you know are you a YouTube where you give the people that help you create a large sum of the money YouTube hasn't been all that profitable Amazon I think is doing a good balance of the ecosystem makes money you know we used to talk Dave about you know how much dollars does VMware make versus there um I think you know Amazon is a much bigger you know VMware 2.0 we used to think talk about all the time that VMware for every dollar spent on VMware licenses 15 or or 12 or 20 were spent in the ecosystem I would think the ratio is even higher here sarbji and an Oracle I would say it's I don't know yeah actually 1 to 0.5 maybe I don't know but I want to pick on your discussion about the the ecosystem the the partner ecosystem is so it's it's robust strong because it's wider I was I was not saying that there's no lock-in with with Amazon right AWS there's lock-in there's lock-in with everything there's lock-in with open source as well but but the point is that they're they're the the circle is so big you don't feel like locked in but they're playing smart as well they're bringing in the software the the platforms from the open source they're picking up those packages and saying we'll bring it in and cater that to you through AWS make it better perform better and also throw in their custom chips on top of that hey this MySQL runs better here so like what do you do I said oh Oracle because it's oracle's product if you will right so they are I think think they're filing or not slenders from their go to market strategy from their engineering and they listen to they're listening to customers like very closely and that has sort of side effects as well listening to customers creates a sprawl of services they have so many services and I criticized them last year for calling everything a new service I said don't call it a new service it's a feature of a existing service sure a lot of features a lot of features this is egress our egress costs a real problem or is it just the the on-prem guys picking at the the scab I mean what do you hear from customers so I mean Dave you know I I look at what Corey Quinn talks about all the time and Amazon charges on that are more expensive than any other Cloud the cloud providers and partly because Amazon is you know probably not a word they'd use they are dominant when it comes to the infrastructure space and therefore they do want to make it a little bit harder to do that they can get away with it um because um yeah you know we've seen some of the cloud providers have special Partnerships where you can actually you know leave and you're not going to be charged and Amazon they've been a little bit more flexible but absolutely I've heard customers say that they wish some good tunning and tongue-in-cheek stuff what else you got we lay it on us so do our players okay this year I think the focus was on the upside it's shifting gradually this was more focused on offside there were less talk of of developers from the main stage from from all sort of quadrants if you will from all Keynotes right so even Werner this morning he had a little bit for he was talking about he he was talking he he's job is to Rally up the builders right yeah so he talks about the go build right AWS pipes I thought was kind of cool then I said like I'm making glue easier I thought that was good you know I know some folks don't use that I I couldn't attend the whole session but but I heard in between right so it is really adopt or die you know I am Cloud Pro for last you know 10 years and I think it's the best model for a technology consumption right um because of economies of scale but more importantly because of division of labor because of specialization because you can't afford to hire the best security people the best you know the arm chip designers uh you can't you know there's one actually I came up with a bumper sticker you guys talked about bumper sticker I came up with that like last couple of weeks The Innovation favorite scale they have scale they have Innovation so that's where the Innovation is and it's it's not there again they actually say the market sets the price Market you as a customer don't set the price the vendor doesn't set the price Market sets the price so if somebody's complaining about their margins or egress and all that I think that's BS um yeah I I have a few more notes on the the partner if you you concur yeah Dave you know with just coming back to some of this commentary about like can Amazon actually enable something we used to call like Community clouds uh your companies like you know Goldman and NASDAQ and the like where Industries will actually be able to share data uh and you know expand the usage and you know Amazon's going to help drive that API economy forward some so it's good to see those things because you know we all know you know all of us are smarter than just any uh single company together so again some of that's open source but some of that is you know I think Amazon is is you know allowing Innovation to thrive I think the word you're looking for is super cloud there well yeah I mean it it's uh Dave if you want to go there with the super cloud because you know there's a metaphor for exactly what you described NASDAQ Goldman Sachs we you know and and you know a number of other companies that are few weeks at the Berkeley Sky Computing paper yeah you know that's a former supercloud Dave Linthicum calls it metacloud I'm not really careful I mean you know I go back to the the challenge we've been you know working at for a decade is the distributed architecture you know if you talk about AI architectures you know what lives in the cloud what lives at the edge where do we train things where do we do inferences um locations should matter a lot less Amazon you know I I didn't hear a lot about it this show but when they came out with like local zones and oh my gosh out you know all the things that Amazon is building to push out to the edge and also enabling that technology and software and the partner ecosystem helps expand that and Pull It in it's no longer you know Dave it was Hotel California all of the data eventually is going to end up in the public cloud and lock it in it's like I don't think that's going to be the case we know that there will be so much data out at the edge Amazon absolutely is super important um there some of those examples we're giving it's not necessarily multi-cloud but there's collaboration happening like in the healthcare world you know universities and hospitals can all share what they're doing uh regardless of you know where they live well Stephen Armstrong in the analyst session did say that you know we're going to talk about multi-cloud we're not going to lead with it necessarily but we are going to actually talk about it and that's different to your points too than in the fullness of time all the data will be in the cloud that's a new narrative but go ahead yeah actually Amazon is a leader in the cloud so if they push the cloud even if they don't say AWS or Amazon with it they benefit from it right and and the narrative is that way there's the proof is there right so again Innovation favorite scale there are chips which are being made for high scale their software being tweaked for high scale you as a Bank of America or for the Chrysler as a typical Enterprise you cannot afford to do those things in-house what cloud providers can I'm not saying just AWS Google cloud is there Azure guys are there and few others who are behind them and and you guys are there as well so IBM has IBM by the way congratulations to your red hat I know but IBM won the award um right you know very good partner and yeah but yeah people are dragging their feet people usually do on the change and they are in denial denial they they drag their feet and they came in IBM director feed the cave Den Dell drag their feed the cave in yeah you mean by Dragon vs cloud deniers cloud deniers right so server Huggers I call them but they they actually are sitting in Amazon Cloud Marketplace everybody is buying stuff from there the marketplace is the new model OKAY Amazon created the marketplace for b2c they are leading the marketplace of B2B as well on the technology side and other people are copying it so there are multiple marketplaces now so now actually it's like if you're in in a mobile app development there are two main platforms Android and Apple you first write the application for Apple right then for Android hex same here as a technology provider as and I I and and I actually you put your stuff to AWS first then you go anywhere else yeah they are later yeah the Enterprise app store is what we've wanted for a long time the question is is Amazon alone the Enterprise app store or are they partner of a of a larger portfolio because there's a lot of SAS companies out there uh that that play into yeah what we need well and this is what you're talking about the future but I just want to make a point about the past you talking about dragging their feet because the Cube's been following this and Stu you remember this in 2013 IBM actually you know got in a big fight with with Amazon over the CIA deal you know and it all became public judge wheeler eviscerated you know IBM and it ended up IBM ended up buying you know soft layer and then we know what happened there and it Joe Tucci thought the cloud was Mosey right so it's just amazing to see we have booksellers you know VMware called them books I wasn't not all of them are like talking about how great Partnerships they are it's amazing like you said sub GC and IBM uh with the the GSI you know Partnership of the year but what you guys were just talking about was the future and that's what I wanted to get to is because you know Amazon's been leading the way I I was listening to Werner this morning and that just reminded me of back in the days when we used to listen to IBM educate us give us a master class on system design and decoupled systems and and IO and everything else now Amazon is you know the master educator and it got me thinking how long will that last you know will they go the way of you know the other you know incumbents will they be disrupted or will they you know keep innovating maybe it's going to take 10 or 20 years I don't know yeah I mean Dave you actually you did some research I believe it was a year or so ago yeah but what will stop Amazon and the one thing that worries me a little bit um is the two Pizza teams when you have over 202 Pizza teams the amount of things that each one of those groups needs to take care of was more than any human could take care of people burn out they run out of people how many amazonians only last two or three years and then leave because it is tough I bumped into plenty of friends of mine that have been you know six ten years at Amazon and love it but it is a tough culture and they are driving werner's keynote I thought did look to from a product standpoint you could say tape over some of the seams some of those solutions to bring Beyond just a single product and bring them together and leverage data so there are some signs that they might be able to get past some of those limitations but I still worry structurally culturally there could be some challenges for Amazon to keep the momentum going especially with the global economic impact that we are likely to see in the next year bring us home I think the future side like we could talk about the vendors all day right to serve the community out there I think we should talk about how what's the future of technology consumption from the consumer side so from the supplier side just a quick note I think the only danger AWS has has that that you know Fred's going after them you know too big you know like we will break you up and that can cause some disruption there other than that I think they they have some more steam to go for a few more years at least before we start thinking about like oh this thing is falling apart or anything like that so they have a lot more they have momentum and it's continuing so okay from the I think game is on retail by the way is going to get disrupted before AWS yeah go ahead from the buyer's side I think um the the future of the sort of Technology consumption is based on the paper uh use and they actually are turning all their services to uh they are sort of becoming serverless behind the scenes right all analytics service they had one service left they they did that this year so every service is serverless so that means you pay exactly for the amount you use the compute the iops the the storage so all these three layers of course Network we talked about the egress stuff and that's a problem there because of the network design mainly because Google has a flatter design and they have lower cost so so they are actually squeezing the their their designing this their services in a way that you don't waste any resources as a buyer so for example very simple example when early earlier In This Cloud you will get a VM right in Cloud that's how we started so and you can get 20 use 20 percent of the VM 80 is getting wasted that's not happening now that that has been reduced to the most extent so now your VM grows as you grow the usage and if you go higher than the tier you picked they will charge you otherwise they will not charge you extra so that's why there's still a lot of instances like many different types you have to pick one I think the future is that those instances will go away the the instance will be formed for you on the fly so that is the future serverless all right give us bumper sticker Stu and then Serb G I'll give you my quick one and then we'll wrap yeah so just Dave to play off of sharp G and to wrap it up you actually wrote about it on your preview post for here uh serverless we're talking about how developers think about things um and you know Amazon in many ways you know is the new default server uh you know for the cloud um and containerization fits into the whole serverless Paradigm uh it's the space that I live in uh you know every day here and you know I was happy to see the last few years serverless and containers there's a blurring a line and you know subject we're still going to see VMS for a long time yeah yeah we will see that so give us give us your book Instagram my number six is innovation favorite scale that's my bumper sticker and and Amazon has that but also I I want everybody else to like the viewers to take a look at the the Google Cloud as well as well as IBM with others like maybe you have a better price to Performance there for certain workloads and by the way one vendor cannot do it alone we know that for sure the market is so big there's a lot of room for uh Red Hats of the world and and and Microsoft's the world to innovate so keep an eye on them they we need the competition actually and that's why competition Will Keep Us to a place where Market sets the price one vendor doesn't so the only only danger is if if AWS is a monopoly then I will be worried I think ecosystems are the Hallmark of a great Cloud company and Amazon's got the the biggest and baddest ecosystem and I think the other thing to watch for is Industries building on top of the cloud you mentioned the Goldman Sachs NASDAQ Capital One and Warner media these all these industries are building their own clouds and that's where the real money is going to be made in the latter half of the 2020s all right we're a wrap this is Dave Valente I want to first of all thank thanks to our great sponsors AWS for for having us here this is our 10th year at the cube AMD you know sponsoring as well the the the cube here Accenture sponsor to third set upstairs upstairs on the fifth floor all the ecosystem partners that came on the cube this week and supported our mission for free content our content is always free we try to give more to the community and we we take back so go to thecube.net and you'll see all these videos go to siliconangle com for all the news wikibon.com I publish weekly a breaking analysis series I want to thank our amazing crew here you guys we have probably 30 35 people unbelievable our awesome last session John Walls uh Paul Gillen Lisa Martin Savannah Peterson John Furrier who's on a plane we appreciate Andrew and Leonard in our ear and all of our our crew Palo Alto Boston and across the country thank you so much really appreciate it all right we are a wrap AWS re invent 2022 we'll see you in two weeks we'll see you two weeks at Palo Alto ignite back here in Vegas thanks for watching thecube the leader in Enterprise and emerging Tech coverage [Music]

>> Alteryx is a company with a long history that goes all the way back to the late 1990s. Now the one consistent theme over the past 20-plus years, however, is that Alteryx has always been a data company. Early in the big data and Hadoop cycle. It saw the need to combine and prep different data types, so that organizations could confidently analyze data and take action. Alteryx and similar companies played a critical role in helping, helping companies become, data driven. Alex, let me start over. Shit, sorry. Sorry, Leonard. Alteryx is a company with a long history that goes all the way back to the late 1990s. Now the one consistent theme over 20 plus years has been that Alteryx has always been a data company early in the big data and Hadoop cycle. It saw the need to combine and prep different data types so that organizations could analyze data and take action. Alteryx and similar companies played a critical role in helping companies become data driven. The problem was the decade of big data, brought a lot of complexities and required immense skills just to get the technology to work as advertised. This in turn limited, the pace of adoption and the number of companies that could really lean in and take advantage. Now, the cloud began to change all that, and set the foundation for today's themed, de jor of digital transformation. We hear that phrase a ton, digital transformation. People used to think it was a buzzword but of course we learn from the pandemic that if you're not a digital business, you're out of business. And a key tenant of digital transformation is democratizing data. Meaning enabling not just hyper specialized experts but anyone, business users to put data to work. Now back to Alteryx, the company has embarked on a major transformation of its own over the past couple of years. Brought in new management, they've changed the way in which it engaged it with customers with a new subscription model, and it's top graded. It's talent pool. 2021 was even more significant because of two acquisitions that Alteryx made, Hyper Anna and Trifecta. Why are these acquisitions important? While traditionally Altrix sold to business analysts that were part of the data pipeline. These were fairly technical people who had certain skills, and were trained in things like writing Python code. With Hyper Anna, Alteryx has added a new persona the business user, anyone in the business who wanted to gain insights from data and, or let's say use AI without having to be a deep technical expert. And then Trifecta, a company started in the early days of big data by Cubelum, Joe Hellerstein and his colleagues at Berkeley. They knock down the data engineering persona, and this gives Alteryx a complimentary extension into IT where things like governance and security are paramount. So as we enter 2022, the post isolation economy is here, and we do so with a digital foundation, built on the confluence of cloud native technologies, data democratization and machine intelligence or AI, if you prefer. And Alteryx is entering that new era with an expanded portfolio, new go to market vectors, a recurring revenue business model, and a brand new outlook on how to solve customer problems and scale a company. My name is Dave Volante with the Cube and I'll be your host today in the next hour we're going to explore the opportunities in this new data market. And we have three segments where we dig into these trends and themes. First we'll talk to Jay Henderson, vice president of product management at Alteryx about cloud accelerate and simplifying complex data operations. Then we'll bring in Crajesh vitall. Who's the chief product officer at Alteryx and Adam Wilson the CEO of trifecta, which of course is now part of Alteryx. And finally, we'll hear about how Alteryx is partnering with snowflake in the ecosystem and how they're integrating with data platforms like snow flick and what this means for customers. And we may have a few surprises sprinkled in as well into the conversation let's get started.

>> As to the adoption challenges, I wasn't clear on where that should go. I mean, I'm happy to just throw it out there. >> You'll again punch it back to me, right? >> Okay. >> Question comes to me and I'm going to pass the ball to Greg to connect the thread on one backbone is needed. Emphasizing Cat 9K that we just talked about. >> And same thing for the last question. The routes to market? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Great. So we'll use that program for everything. Perfect. >> Masum, could you... Yeah, right there. So mark your place and try not to move that seat. That's it. Now, come forward just a tad, just a tad. There we go. Yeah. Okay, that's fine. Okay Alex, we're good. >> Okay. So Leonard don't leave after this 'Cause I'm going to do my outro. I'm going to do that as a separate asset, okay? >> You bet. >> Okay, great. So guys just it'll be five, four, three, silent, two, one. And then just follow my lead, okay? All right, Alex, you're ready? Masum and Greg, you're ready? >> Ready. >> Ready. >> Okay, here we go on me. On Dave in five, four, three, (beep). Okay, we're back. Digging into the infrastructure to make hybrid work possible. High performance, cost effective, scalable, and secure. That's what it's all about. And so far, we've covered the rapid migration to Wi-Fi 6E technology, and the role that switching is going to play. And now we're going to get into Private 5G and to do that, let's welcome Masum Mir, who is Vice President, and General Manager of Mobile, Cable and IoT business at Cisco. And Greg Dorai who is the Vice President of Product Management for the networking experiences group at Cisco. He's responsible for Catalyst access, that whole portfolio, Enterprise 5G, Cisco DNA Spaces, Cisco ISE, a lot of stuff there Greg. And gentlemen, welcome. >> Dave thank you for having us. >> Yeah, our pleasure. Masum let's start with you on the topic of Private 5G. What do we need to know about that? And more specifically, what's unique about Cisco's Private 5G? >> So most importantly, delivering Private 5G in enterprise terms, that's super important to look at 5G. Many of our peer groups might have got it wrong. We're looking at Private 5G with the lens of enterprise, what enterprise really needs. Is 5G going to come and displace a lot of existing technology, or is it going to help augment the technology that enterprise. It has an excellent the digitization journey. I wanted to start Dave with the basic premise of hybrid work. And what hybrid work really means. Is it only for knowledge worker, or is it for all workers? So we strongly believe hybrid work needs to empower all workers. It's not only connecting remote workers but also bringing people, things and space together. And we strongly believe the combination of Wi-Fi 6 and 5G for private network is going to accelerate that journey bringing people, things and space together in a very, very cohesive way. Why our offer is so unique? We are going to create a continuum. Enterprises don't have to make a hard choice. They will be using Wi-Fi technology and 5G technology hand in hand without creating a disruption on their policy and identity systems. They don't have to rethink, "Do I have to go and build a new backbone?" Is a common backbone that will support both Wi-Fi as well as 5G. Most importantly, delivering this entire offer as a service with the ease of consumption, ease of operation, and a trusted environment that they can put their mission critical workload on. >> Now, I like it. So a couple takeaways there. I mean, it's inclusive of all workers not just knowledge workers, non disruptive, everybody loves to hear that. And of course, it has service model as key Masum, let me stay with you. I mean, we can't wait for 5G, right? It's lightning fast, it got super low latency, very high bandwidth. So that's what everybody's excited about. The question though is, 5G gets introduced, yeah it's going to power things like IoT networks. Is that going to replace Wi-Fi and legacy wired broadband? >> Absolutely not. So we see Private 5G as an augmentation to the enterprise on top of Wi-Fi. Wi-Fi as you heard in the previous conversation, Wi-Fi is bringing more capability with Wi-Fi 6 and Wi-Fi 6E. And 5G is going to be yet another augmentation. Wi-Fi and 5G will coexist within enterprise for many years to come. I would like my friend, Greg to talk a little bit about this continuum. Greg? >> Yeah, I think it's sort of like, I like to say it's an and not an or. Because there's enough use cases out there which require spectrum. And you know, spectrum is a constraint. So you have Private 5G, your Wi-Fi 6, and both offer opportunities. So for example, in an indoor carpeted setting where you're basically connecting your phone for basic browsing, or connecting your laptop, Wi-Fi is sufficient. But if it's a process automation factory where you need seven nines of reliability, Private 5G is the better technology. Similarly outdoor, large areas, it's probably Private 5G, right? 'Cause you can have easy handoff between public and private. So it's use case driven. And once it's use case driven, it's going to be an or because there's so many next-gen use cases. Whether it's AR VR, drones, you know, self-driving cars you name it, right? And so I think these two technologies, 5G and Wi-Fi 6E is going to work hand in hand to deliver awesome outcomes for our customers. >> Yeah. And just the data volumes are going to be incredible. We always talk about the data volumes. You ain't seen nothing yet is what I always say. But the thing is every new tech that's introduced into the enterprise, you can almost be certain that it's going to bring adoption challenges. And not only that, it also is going to bring changes in the way you do things. And that brings new complexities from an operational standpoint. So my question is, how are you addressing this with the introduction of 5G? >> Dave, this is a fantastic question. And this is why we have spent, me and Greg have spent tremendous amount of time to create continuum. I'll start with the foundation first, backbone. So we have been building this enterprise backbone supported with wired connection as well as Wi-Fi connection. We wanted to make sure that as Private 5G comes within enterprise, you don't have to rethink and reimagine your backbone. It's the common backbone that will support what Wi-Fi, Wi-Fi 6, Wi-Fi 6E, as well as Private 5G. You're rest assured that it is the same backbone that we have heard in the previous section on the Cat 9K that will also support a Private 5G access. The second aspect of Private 5G is as you build any new technology into enterprise often time we get into this trap. To get to an outcome, we move fast and we create a silo. And then that silo operation creates barriers to mainstream it. So upfront, we have to think about not creating another silo. And how we are doing it. Number one, is a device that can connect into Wi-Fi network or a Private 5G network. You don't have to reimagine or rethink how I'm going to manage the identity. We'll create continuum with a common identity across the Wi-Fi access or 5G access in the same environment. The second aspect of that is how are we going to retain all our staff? Our enterprise staff is well trained with Wi-Fi technology and wired technology. Now 5G comes with tremendous amount of value and benefit. But it also comes with inherent technology complexity, learning curve problem. This is where our simple to consume, simple to operate model of SaaS comes to play. That we're going to take all those complexity away. It is a cloud delivered service. So enterprise don't have to go through this massive learning curve adopting this technology. Last but not least, on how we are going to manage your capital. Any new technology and enterprise often time, you need huge amount of upfront investment to adopt the technology to get to the other side of getting the outcome. So again, our business model of SaaS will allow enterprise to adopt this new technology and pay as your grow model to meet with enterprise needs. Finally, I also wanted to pass to Greg to touch a little bit more on how we are thinking about this common identity across any access in the enterprise. Greg, to you. >> So we thought about it in two different ways. One is, a lot of enterprises today use our identity and secure management platform. We call it ISE, Cisco ISE platform. And so, years and years of policy and identities, and which access servers, radio servers they use et cetera, are plugged in already into our ISE, right? So, if you can share that with this Private 5G as a service infrastructure that Masum's been building, we think we'll be able to create that bridge. Because we are not forcing enterprises to create new identities or new policies. So that's sort of step one to make it easier. We also thought through so something where in the case of a public 5G network, for example. It's very convenient because you take your phone out of your pocket and it's connected to the network, right? Versus for wifi, you have to log into an SSID in your hotel, or in your home, and in home, it's automatic. But that's that login process that creates friction. And that's a problem because then you can't be seamless. So we initiated what we call as open roaming, right? Like that's a identity federation that we first created between identity owners. Could be carriers, could be anything, right? Anyone who owns an identity. And they will share with venues. And so if the sharing happens, then that onboarding can be automatic. And once onboarding is automatic, then it's easy to pass off between Wi-Fi and 5G. And so that's again, another way in which you can lower the adoption barriers 'cause you share across public Private 5G and Wi-Fi networks. So these are two concrete examples of how we thought about lowering the barriers of adoption as we enter into this heterogeneous world. >> Nice, I can't wait. Let's talk about how this thing, scales in the go to market. What are the most likely, or maybe preferred, or obvious routes to market for Private 5G from Cisco? >> So Dave stay tuned right when they announce more about it. But I can also assure you that access to this spectrum is a challenge for many enterprises when it comes to cellular technology. In some countries there are more spectrum accessible by enterprise. In many countries, that's not the case. So we have thought through very carefully that how do we bring this offer to the market partnering with many service providers and mobile operators. Where in countries where you don't have direct access to the spectrum, our partnership with mobile operators, that you will hear more about as we come to Mobile World Congress, is going to allow our enterprise to consume this technology. even if they don't have the spectrum. In the places where the enterprise might have spectrum access, we'll also in our manage service providers to hide the complexity of the new technology on top of our SaaS services, or cloud delivered services. This is the augmentation with the partnership with manage service providers and mobile operators that will ease this journey for enterprises. Our most important primitive in this journey is to keep it simple for enterprise, make it intuitive, and trust it from day one. >> Outstanding. Okay, Masum, Greg, thanks so much. It was great to have you guys on. I really appreciate your time. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> In a moment, I'll be back with some closing thoughts and an opportunity for you to actually see this technology in action and talk to the experts directly. Keep it right there.

perfect all right we're good uh muhammad you ready yeah i have a watery eyes always so i always tell my interviewers or the producers that sometimes it shouldn't there shouldn't be a problem in the 10-minute window but well yeah so do that while i'm talking you'll see it on the return feed it's a little delayed but and most people have tears when they see dave vellante yeah i i have that effect on people thanks for that okay we all said we good leonard why don't you go alex bye-bye yeah alex got the i just got the thumbs up we're good okay muhammad here we go on dave in five four three we continue now with the network powering hybrid work now we just heard from lawrence wang on the rapid move to wi-fi 6e which is going to increase wi-fi efficiency enable routers and devices to more efficiently use bandwidth and that additional spectrum that lawrence talked about that means more wi-fi channels which is really going to help reduce overlap between networks and make a noticeable difference especially in crowded places we're here now with muhammad imam who's senior director of product management for catalyst switching this is a multi-billion dollar business for cisco if you ever listen to cisco's earnings calls you'll hear the cfo scott heron he'll talk about the catalyst 9000 and double-digit growth and switching this is the fastest ramping product in cisco's history so muhammad that's got to make you feel pretty good yes indeed thank you david and thank you for having me here yeah great to have you so uh look catalyst 9000 it's been really successful what does the 9000x bring to the table for your customers yeah absolutely and um indeed the catalyst 9000 family of switches have been extremely popular with our customers as you said fastest ramping product in cisco's history and the last four or five years we have really evolved the catalyst 9000 family of switches to a very comprehensive product portfolio um addressing the various enterprise use cases that that we that we address but now we see increase in demand on the networks and that really stems from some of the most recent trends that we are seeing right part of it is hybrid workspaces is going to be a video dominant hybrid workspace right a lot of cases is going to be high definition 4k 8k videos we are seeing cloud-based applications everywhere right my spreadsheet is used to be on excel sheet now it's either an office 365 or smartsheets my files used to be on my computer now it's on in the dropbox right so these are trends that are really uh putting pressure on our networks we are also seeing trends where vr headsets are becoming common they are being used for trainings and education use cases webex hologram in certain industries we are seeing robotics are becoming more and more popular and they come with a lot of um applications that are very latency sensitive and as lawrence mentioned earlier wi-fi 6e is really making over the year multi gigabit wi-fi possible right and for all of these different trends and the recent technologies that that are evolving we really need the network that can really address and deliver for these applications and that's where we are bringing the catalyst 9000 x that addresses the increase in network demand we are expanding the catalyst 9000 family with top-of-line premium introductions in the access layer of the switches of the network as well as in the aggregation and core layers so we are bringing 400 gig high-speed core and enterprise core and edge layers of the network we are bringing point-to-point ip ipsec security which will give you 100 gig of ipsec encryption um high density of multi-gigabit which is becoming very common as we evolve our wi-fi networks because we don't want our wired infrastructure to be the bottleneck when the wireless infrastructure is capable of going more than a gig high density of 90 watt powering the smart buildings use cases right right um these are all different use cases that are being enabled by the catalyst 9000 and the new getless 9000x family is really addressing some of these new trends and applications well it's good because the metaverse is coming too and we're going to need some help with that right who knows how much bandwidth will need for metabolism absolutely yeah guarantee will be a lot more but so i want to i want to hear more about the the new products that you've just launched and maybe how these offerings are going to help with this new hybrid work model that we've just been discussing absolutely so let me start with the catalyst 9300 we are introducing the catalyst 9300x which is the highest density full multi-gigabit platform with 100 gig uplinks and 90 watt of power on every port available right that's an industry first that we are bringing on the catalyst 9300 family it is also capable of one terabit per second of a stacking which is also unheard of in the industry this will serve our customers with all the new trends that we talked about including the hybrid world um and some of the new trends that are going to come in the next decade but 9300x is not just a high-end campus switch it can also be a lean branch and a box solution where you don't really need an sd van but you do need an encryption point to point from the catalyst 93 from your front branch with the catalyst 9300x to the data center or to the cloud so for the first time we are introducing the ipsec based encryption natively in the hardware and that means no compromise on performance and you can get up to 100 gig of encrypted traffic with the catalyst 9300x second is the catalyst 9400 we are introducing soup 2 and soup 2 xl with 100 gig uplinks enhancing and the the scale and performance giving our customers options for fully loaded line rate multi give it board on a 10 slot chassis right it will give you two to three times bandwidth boost to your existing line cards since it completely removes the over subscriptions and you know the soup 2 on the catalyst 9400 is coming up with the version of the asic that we used in the past on the catalyst 9600 that means it's also bringing the core capabilities that we used that we today have on 9600 on the catalyst 9400 and that brings high density 10 gig um ports on the catalyst 9400 without over subscription right with the core capabilities then we have the catalyst 9600 where we are introducing is supervisor 2 which really triples the bandwidth per slot on the catalyst 98600 it introduces 400 gig uplink and truly drives the transition to 200 gig in the core get 6k customers uh with excel scale requirements now they can transition to the cat 9k with soup 2. and by the way we are also introducing a combo line card on the catalyst 9600 which means now you don't have to burn a whole slot for your uplink pores in fact you can get up to 400 gig of uplink with this new line card um so that's that's a bunch of things that we are bringing on the catalyst 9600 in line with catalyst 9600 we are also introducing catalyst 9500x 100 gig box with 400 gig uplinks in a fixed form factor and all the benefits that i just talked about on the on the supervisor 2 and 9600 it's also available in a fixed form factor on catalyst 9500x got it so that's in summary kind of the multiple uh product lines that we are introducing yeah it's a lot to unpack there i mean your the big theme there of course is optionality you got a lot of choices for customers i love the encrypt everything without a trade-off you know no performance impact and anytime you can reduce my oversubscription it's going to make me happy you know muhammad we've reported in our breaking analysis segments the importance of custom silicon and not every company has the resources or the expertise to develop their own silicon cisco of course does catalyst 9k is bringing silicon 1 based products with this launch tell us more about that why is this important yeah that's really exciting development that we have on the cad 9k family because you know the silicon one is a powerful asic that enables high performance and high scale with modern silicon architecture bringing the architect a converged architecture for switching as well as routing cad 9k as we know has been running on a uadp asic which has been a programmable asic it has served us really well so far on the cat9k family but with the silicon one we are taking it to another level silicon one brings the capabilities of uadp asic and unlocks the excel scale and high performance in the enterprise switches this is a critical and foundational element to meet the core requirement for the next ticket silicon one is a 12.8 terabits per second chip supports up to 10 million routes supports much deeper buffers brings multi-slice voq architectures with this new architecture silicon 1a6 has paved the way to transition the cad 6k xl deployments to cat 9k right so that's kind of the the um the silicon one uh importance in the ket99k family that we are bringing now yeah and it brings differentiation a lot of people kind of sometimes don't appreciate that but but when you have the control like that you can do things that you might not be able to do with off-the-shelf silicon but so but i i want to ask you what about customers that previously purchased from you as you evolve the portfolio to 9k x how do you protect their investment yeah thank you for asking that question because when we started building the cad 9k we always thought about investment protection for our customers so if you buy today how you will have a very long life for that for that product and you will be able to unlock new powers on that platform that you have purchased maybe five years back right that's exactly what we are doing with the catalyst 199000x talking about modular right on the modular side the supervisors that that that we are introducing now are backward compatible with the line cars that you already have in some cases the lime card throughput is doubling and tripling because now you have a new machine that is going to power these line cards right so you don't have to change your line card you just change your supervisor and you have much higher performance and scale with this new supervisor similarly on the stackables you can stack with the existing catalyst 9300s for example and you will be able to you don't have to rip and replace everything it's not a forklift upgrade for our customers you can continue benefiting from your existing catalyst 9000 deployments and add to the power with the catalyst 9000x components as well as new platforms that we are introducing nice that's key this just speaks to the software content that you guys i know you have a lot of software engineers running around and this is welcome to the 2020s folks new world you know i i muhammad zero trust was kind of a buzzword before the pandemic but it's really become a mainstream topic today we talked about the infrastructure we know security has to be built in from the start it can't be bolted on and zero trust is really top of mind for customers how are their security requirements changing as a result of hybrid work and and how do you make sure that as we shift to hybrid that these new security requirements are addressed what are you doing there absolutely and we know as you said security is top of mind for our customers in fact security has been highlighted as the number one reason why a lot of customers pick cisco and cat9k we have a comprehensive zero truss architecture with software defined access where we started with segmentation and expanded into endpoint classification and visibility now we are taking that to the next level and we are introducing talus powered truss assessment for unmanaged endpoints to further make the the workplace is stronger with zero trust and software defined access truss analytics it detects traffic from end points that are exhibiting unusual um behavior by pretending to be um using a mag spoofing or probe is spoofing or man the metal techniques when truss analytics detects such anomalies it signals endpoint analytics to lower the trusted score so we have a trusted score system when when the trusted score goes down it shows up on the dashboard and the network admin can completely deny or limit the access to the network from these endpoints from other security aspect that we are introducing and i touched on that briefly earlier is um for non-sdvan internet only branches where we are where where services security services might be in the cloud right that's a trend that we are seeing to secure that connectivity from a lean branch to the cloud we are introducing the ipsec capability with the catalyst 9300x and that's built in as as we just talked about and as far as the automation is concerned for these use cases they are we are bringing those automation with our command center the cisco dna center and we are bringing the full life cycle of automation as well as assurance for the secure connectivity that is being provided with the with the cisco dna center well a couple takeaways there for me i mean endpoint security has really become much more important up for obvious reasons when you have remote workers the built-in ipsec just that really emphasizes that you got to have it you know built in from the ground up you can't just bolt it on and the automation is key the number one problem that csos face is you know lack of talent so automation you know definitely helps helps with that so okay muhammad thank you so much really appreciate you coming on in a moment we'll look at private 5g and what's been happening at mobile world congress you're watching cube's coverage of the network powering hybrid work made possible by cisco

good thumbnail for your video all right thank you all for the patience we are now ready to start filming did you want to take a picture alex yes i do lawrence let me get myself prepared for that okay lawrence we're going to take a screenshot of your input for a thumbnail asset if you can look at the screen and give me a big smile in three two one gotcha great excellent okay and with that i am all good to go and you are lawrence we'll do a five count i'll count you down 543 silent 2-1 and then just follow my lead okay sounds great all right leonard we good okay you're off here we go on dave in five four three every ceo is trying to get hybrid right most people they've been working remotely for the better part of two years now and we've spent a lot of time and thought on how to accommodate remote workers and providing tools to make them feel connected and more productive we've also built remote and hybrid models into our hiring ethos making it a feature not a drawback but what about the underlying infrastructure that powers hybrid work how is that evolving to be as flexible scalable and cost effective with the lowest latency possible recent survey data from enterprise technology research shows that 56 percent of executives believe productivity continues to improve with only 14 percent citing recent declines in productivity 26 percent say it's holding steady the question is how do we maintain those positives and minimize the negatives and what role does the network and underlying infrastructure play in evolving new work models welcome to the network powering hybrid work on the cube made possible by cisco my name is dave vellante and i'll be your host today and in this program you're going to hear from experts that are going to discuss and introduce new innovations that are specifically designed to energize and support hybrid work my first guest is lawrence wang who's the vice president of product management at cisco and we're going to dig into wi-fi 6e and what it all means to the future of work lawrence welcome good to see you hey great to be here dave thanks for having me i'm excited to be here today yeah you bet okay my my first big question is you know what's the big rush it feels like we were just talking about the shift from wi-fi you know five to wi-fi six just a few years ago what's going on there yeah i mean you're right right we as since at cisco we introduced our first wi-fi six access points back in 2019 and one of the things that we've seen is a tremendous rate of adoption moving from wi-fi five to wi-fi six over the past couple of years in fact it's one of our fastest transitions that we've seen between wireless standards and a lot of the drivers you know for that we're really just about you know making sure that there's better wi-fi experiences for you know uh people in the office making sure that they can support uh you know more of that you know set of clients reduce the amount of congestion in our time what we've seen is that migration has been tremendous but it also means that you know we're starting to reach that capacity where you know five gigahertz is starting to become more crowded and so many of our customers are looking at well what can i actually do to continue to expand you know that you know that traffic the number of lanes that i can actually support for wireless traffic and for many of them they're looking to wi-fi 6e as the answer to help them do that simply because six gigahertz as part of that standard introduces a whole new spectrum or a whole new highway that we can get client devices on well so it sounds like you're thinking about a different role for offices and campuses going forward so what should listeners expect to see kind of in the in the near term in the midterm and even the long term near term when they get back into the office and in the long term how do you see this playing out yeah i mean that's an interesting question right when you think about you know this context of hybrid work you know work is not a place that you go to but it's really a place that uh you could be where ultimately you are trying to get work done uh it really really is supporting you know that you know quality of experience no matter where you choose to work from and yes yeah while the campus is going to evolve and play a different role it is a critical part of that hybrid work future and the way i see it here is that you know the role of the campus is going to change over time it's not going to be the same that we saw prior to uh you know two years ago and i think for many of our customers about you know what does it mean to invest in that infrastructure for us to continue to adapt to support you know the ways that you know their employees are expected or want to work and a big part of that is investing in infrastructure to support your new ways of working well you know lawrence i mean i've personally been lucky because we go to studio and i've been able to come into the office since the pandemic started but i know a lot of people they're really excited to get back to work in person and face-to-face events and the like and i know others that say you know what i'm moving and i'm always going to remo work remotely i'll never work for another company that forces me to go in the office again so this sounds like a tall order for it organizations to accommodate that diversity how do you think they will be able to plan for and manage all this new complexity yeah i mean i think the reality is uh you know talent it doesn't know any zip codes right and i think one of the boons of you know being able to support a more distributed workforce is to be able to bring in great talent no matter where they're based out of and i think for it teams i think the interesting thing will be you know what are the drivers to bring people back into the office right there has to be a purpose uh that's more meaningful than simply it's a place that i go to every single day you know what are the you know tools and you know applications i bring in to help support collaboration and i think an important part of you know making this a great experience in the context of hybrid work is that you do have to make the office a meaningful place for employees to gather but also making sure that as you connect people around the world as part of your global employee workforce that they still have an equitable experience so for iet teams it is about you know thinking about how do i actually manage this infrastructure that's more distributed but i still have to invest in my you know central campuses and at the same time making sure that i have great quality experiences for everyone unified security policies you know visibility across all the clients and applications but there's also increasing pressure from their it's core constituency we know that people are asking more of it they want them to support new use cases like safe return office that they want it to help you a contributor to you know global corporate initiatives like driving towards uh you know zero uh greenhouse gas emissions so any number of these activities or initiatives is putting more pressure on ig teams yeah interesting i mean so i gotta ask you please don't hate me for this question but was this just luck on cisco's part that you got solutions ready for this sort of hybrid work model so quickly in other words was it something that you were maybe planning that was going to take years for the market to be ready for and it just got compressed because of the pandemic or is this architecture that allows you to be flexible how did you land here in what appears to be a pretty strong position yeah i mean at cisco i think one of the things that you know we think about is you know it's always amazing when you look back at something and then you write the story but i i think if we're being honest with ourselves if you look at what happened from where we were two years ago to where we are today including our competitors and customers i think that no one could have predicted the world that we're operating and living in and so for us the question becomes how did we help our customers support this transition and ultimately it's about investing in architectures and platforms that are flexible that allows our customers support you know use cases that they were thinking of as well as ones that they never anticipated and i think that's really the exciting thing about you know what we've been doing here as part of our hybrid work investments now areas that you know i think you know we double down on and you know in some ways accelerated because of this when i think about you know what our customers care about when they start bringing people back into the office it is about some of these emerging use cases whether it's you know more dynamic way finding being able to understand the density or the air quality of a given environment and these are some of the technologies that we've embedded in some of our you know new uh you know wi-fi 60 access points along with you know our management infrastructure here so i think that it gives our customers and partners a lot more flexibility than what you know they had before to really adapt to the changing needs of today and even beyond well that's something we've certainly learned throughout the pandemic is is the ability to be flexible is fundamental i got to ask you what's your preferred mode of work you going back into the office are you going to stay remote great question you know i have come to appreciate uh you know working from home you know over uh you know the past couple years got to spend a little more time with my kids at lunch but i will say i am looking forward to the day when i can have the choice of being back in the office a few days a week as well as continue to be remote as well as continue to visit my customers and partners uh you know all over this great country in the world so looking forward to that yeah so so you're a true hybrid i guess i'm a hybrid too i like being in the office but i'm traveling a lot when the world returns to the new abnormal anyway lawrence thanks so much for kicking off the program with me now in a minute we're going to dig into the core of the network and understand the role it plays in supporting new and flexible work models you're watching the network powering hybrid work made possible by cisco on thecube your leader in global enterprise tech coverage

>>From around the globe. It's the cube covering Fortinet security summit brought to you by Fortinet. >>Welcome back to the cubes coverage of 40 net championship security summit from beautiful Napa valley. Lisa Martin here with John farrier, John, and has been phenomenal to do an event in person outdoors and Napa valley. >>You're so bright. We have to wear shades. It's been sunny and it's been hot. It's been great. It's been a great, it's been a great day. I mean, I think Fordanet stepping up to that sponsorship for the PGA is a bold move they're doing well on the business front. They're expanding it. It's good for their customers. It's a new, bold marketing step. Affordanet honestly, they're doing extremely well on the business front. As I mentioned, they got a lot of cash coming in. They got happy customers and they're all here. And golf is a great environment for tech buyers. We know that. So it's great to have the cube on the sports circuit and, uh, we'll be doing more of them. It's it's awesome. >>Good. I, it is great to be on this sport circuit. One of the things that I talked with several folks about today, John Madison being one that CEO, CFO, COO, and then Kenzie, the CEO of Fordanet about the cultural synergies between the PGA and Ford nine. It was really nice to hear how both of these companies, both of these organizations are so invested in things like women in technology and steam and stem programs, and they really align on those two cultures. >>Yeah, there's a, it's a, it's a, it's a culture fit. I mean, they basically, it's a winning formula. Look at Ford and net. Um, you know, and having that kind of representation is good. They, they have a great reputation put in. It does PGA does as well and it's quality, right? So people like, like quality and they want to line that. So it's a great business move for Fordanet to, uh, to do the, uh, the golf sponsorship, uh, multiple years. I think it's six years, five or six years, they get they're doing this. Um, it's phenomenal. I think they're going to Fortnite is going to turn into a marketing powerhouse. I think you're going to start to see John Madison and the team, uh, really gin up some nice new things, because you can do a lot with the PGA. Again, this foundations is charities, again, a lot of causes that are involved in, in fundraising around the PGA and you got the tour players and honestly the tech scene. So I think tech and sports has always been something that I've loved. And I think, you know, we'd love to come and bring our sets here and having the cube here is just a really fun kind of winning formula as well. We'd love it. And we, and we wish we could eat it for more days this year. I think we will, but this has been so much, >>It has been so much fun. There's been about over 300 customers and partners here. Fortnite is a, is a hundred percent partner driven organization. Lot of innovation being discussed the last eight hours or so, but one of the things that you definitely feel is the strength in their partner, community and Fortinets commitment to it. Also something that really impresses me is their commitment to helping to fill the cybersecurity skills gap. This is a gap that has been growing for the last five years. They last week announced a pledge to train 1 million people in the next five years to help shorten that gap. And as we know that the threat landscape is only continuing to expand. So the great combination there, >>And it's a, cause that's a good business logic behind it because there's a of negative unemployment. They need more people to do cybersecurity careers, but also you mentioned women in tech, you know, a lot of that's a big movement too. You start to see a much more women in tech scene here. We had, uh, Merritt bear on principal office of the CSO at Amazon web services on she's amazing. She's wearing the Amazon Krypto shirts. That was a home run, love that interview, but you started to see them afford a net with the whole scene. Here is they're taking their message directly to their customers and they're including their customers. So the magic of this formula that they have with the PGA and this whole program is they don't have live concert series. They got a pavilion here with all their top partners, with customers that doing a summit behind us with their top marquee customers. And they're telling the story direct and you're going, I think you need to shift to see Fordanet really do more of that. What we love in the key, which is take that direct to, to media model, to their customers and contents data. We had great conversations here. I mean, that's all you, you know, viewing the, uh, head VP SVP of at and T cybersecurity, uh, amazing, uh, uh, candidate there's great cube guests. And he was just traveling some serious wisdom. So great guests all along. Fantastic. >>Well, it's, it's been an inspiring day. It's nice that 40 minute has taken the step to do an in-person event. Obviously they did it extremely safely. We were outdoors, but people are, I think a lot of people and I'm speaking for myself, for sure, ready for this to come back and meet the threat landscape that changes that that 40 net has seen in the last 18 months are phenomenal. The growth in ransomware, nearly 11 X in a year. And you had this massive shift to work from home. And now they're talking about how they're partnering with links us, for example, to help enterprises, to really make that remote work environment far more secure, faster, and optimize for the worker. Who's on video conferencing, communication tools. All the kids at home gaming are probably going to be pretty bummed about this, but it really shows coordinates commitment to this. There's a lot of permanence to what we're seeing here in this model. >>I know you and I have done ton of interviews together and, uh, with great guests around cybersecurity and the phrase always comes up and over the past decade, there's there is no more perimeter here. You couldn't, you couldn't, it was louder than ever here because now you have so much going on connected devices. The future of work is at home with the virtual, uh, issues with the pandemic. And now with the Delta variant, uh, continuing at forward, it's a reality, we're in a hybrid world and, um, everything's going hybrid. And I think that's a new thing for companies to operationalize. So they got, there's no playbook. So there is a security playbook. And what these guys are doing is building an ecosystem to build product that people can wrap services around and to solve the key security problems. And that's that, that to me is a good business model. And the SAS is, again, you're seeing everyone go SAS. They want to go SAS product, or, you know, uh, some sort of business models involved in cloud. So cloud security, SAS all kind of rolled up. It's really kinda interesting trend. >>Yeah. We've talked about a whole bunch of trends today. One of them is just one of the marketing terms I've been using and I don't like to use it, but around for years as a future ready people, tech companies always describing solutions and technologies and products is future ready? Well, what does that really mean? Well, when the pandemic struck, none of us were future ready, but what we did hear and see and feel today from 40 net and their partners is how much acceleration they've done. So that going forward, we are going to be future ready for situations that arise like in this challenging cybersecurity landscape that businesses in every industry can prepare for. >>I think, I think the talks here in the cyber security summit behind us, it's interesting. Uh, Tufin one of their customers on a lot of the talks were the same thing, talking about the cultural shift, the cultural shift and security departments has to become more agile. And so that is a big untold story right now is that security departments. Aren't well-liked, they slow things down. I mean, you know, app review everything's gotta be looked at and it takes weeks. That is not good for developers. So app developers in the cloud, they want minutes, you know, shift left is something that we talk about all the time in our events with the developers dev ops movement is putting pressure on the security teams, culturally, who moves first. You don't go faster. You're going to be replaced, but you can't replace a security team. So I find that whole security cloud team dynamic, real organizational challenges. That's something I'm going to look into is one of my key takeaways from this this week. Yeah. >>A huge organizational change. And with that comes, you know, obviously different cultures with these organizations, but at the same time, there really is no more choice. They have to be working together. And as Kenzie and I were talking about, you know, security is no longer an ITP, this is a board level initiative and discussion businesses in every industry, whether it's a retailer or PGA tour have to be prepared. >>Yeah. I mean, I'm a security Hawk. I think every company needs to be prepared to take an offensive strike and be ready on the defense. And this is a huge agility and speed cause ransomware, you get taken down, you know, I mean that's business critical issue. You're dead, you're dead in the water. So, so again, this is all part of his quote digital transformation, uh, that everyone's talking about and is a do over, everyone's doing it over and doing it with the cloud. And I remember just recently in 2012, people were saying, oh, the cloud is not secure. It's now some more secure than anything else. So we starting to see that shift so that realities hit everybody. So it's been great. >>What are some of the things that excited you about the conversations that you had today? >>I was pretty impressed by the fact that one was a physical advantage. You mentioned. So, you know, people in personal, I found it refreshing. I think people here, I noticed we're one relieved to be out and about in public and talking on the cube. Um, but I was really impressed with, uh, the guests from Amazon web services. She was a crypto shirt that got me there. But I think this idea that security is not just a guy thing, right? So to me, women in tech was a, was a big conversation. I thought it was very positive this week, um, here and still a lot more work to do, but I think that's, what's cool. And just the talks were great. I mean, it's cutting edge concepts here. And I thought at, and T was great. I thought, uh, Tufin was a great conversation and again, all the guests that were awesome. So what did you think, what was your take? >>Just how much acceleration we've seen in the last year on innovation and partnerships that really jumped out that when, like I said, we talked about future ready and go, wow. So much of the world wasn't future ready a year and a half ago when this came out and all of the innovation and the positivities that have come out of technology companies creating, because we don't have a choice. We have to figure out secure work from home. For example, we know that some amount of it's going to persist hybrid maybe here to stay, to see what 40 net and their partner ecosystem have done in a short time period. Given the fact that you mentioned ransomware and their global threat landscape, I was talking with Derek, nearly X increased in ransomware and just, >>And they've got four to guard. They got all this. I think your interview with Ken, the CEO, I thought it was really compelling. It was one point he said, um, we're making a lot more investments when you asked him a pointed question. And I think that theme comes across really strong in all of our interviews today. And the conversations in the hallway here is that people that are making the investments are doing well. And so there's more investments being made and that's like, people kind of say, oh yeah, we can do this one, but you have to now. And so the other thing that I thought was awesome with John Madison, talking about their strategy around the PGA, it's a bold move, but it's kind of got this mindset of always innovating, but they're not, they go step at a time, so they get better. So I'm, I'm expecting next year to be better than this year, bigger, uh, and more integrated because that's what they do. They make things better. Um, I think that's gonna be fun to watch, but I think that's a bold move for Affordanet to be doing this kind of marketing. It's really, they haven't done that in the, in the past. So I think this is a really bold move. >>I agree. And they've spun this out of their accelerate event, which is an event that we've covered for years in person. So this was the first time that they've pulled the security summit out as its own event. And clearly there was a great buzz behind us all day. Lots of, lots of topics, a lot of discussions, a lot of partnership. And you're right. A lot of talk about investment investment in their partner ecosystem and investment internally. Yes. >>It's fun too. On a personal note, we've been following Fordanet for many, many years. You and I both got doing the interviews and you do and go to the events is watching them grow and be successful. And it's kind of proud though. I, yeah, I'll go for it. And that kind of rooting for him. And I want to thank them for inviting the cube here because we're so psyched to be here and be part of this awesome event. And again, golf, the cube kind of go together, right? Sports, the cubes. We love it. So always fun. So thanks to, for, to net out there for, uh, supporting us and being, being part of the cube. >>Well, you got the gear, you got your Fordanet Gulf t-shirt I got one too. And pink. It's beautiful. Yeah. You got some shades, but we also have some gear here help us in the morning for our next shows. Be caffeinated. Yeah. But no, it's been great. It's been great to be here. Great to hook co-host with you again in person if for 20 months or so, and looking forward to seeing how 49 and how back >>He was back up the vents. Thanks to the crew. Chuck Leonard, every one's era, Brendan. Right. Well done. Fordanet thank you. Thank you for >>John's been great. Thanks for having me up here today. Looking forward to the next time from Napa valley, Lisa Martin, for John farrier, you've been watching the cube

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS re:Invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and Intel, along with its ecosystem partners. >> Hey welcome back everyone as theCUBE live covers Las Vegas day three, we're wrapping up the show for AWS re:Invent. I'm John Furrier, extracting the signal from the noise. I want to thank Intel for sponsoring this amazing set, two sets here. We had double barrel, cube action all week. Thanks to Intel, we wouldn't be able to do it and bring the great content to viewers today. Thank them for supporting our mission. We're going to wrap up the show with Stu Miniman, Corey Quinn, two experts who are scouring the floor. Doing interviews, talking to everybody, and myself. Cory, good to see you. >> It is great to see me, John, thank you. >> You're awesome, got quite a following these days on your work, your business is growing, congratulations. >> Corey: Thank you >> But, I saw you running around at the Wynn, you're definitely working hard. So, what have you learning, what are you seeing, what's the- what's your analysis of the show holistically? >> I think that Amazon, specifically AWS's product strategy, remains what it has been, and that is simply "yes." There is remarkably little that seems that it is beyond something that AWS would take an interest in. If you'd asked me to predict what they would have released at midnight madness, I would have had several guesses, none of which would have been "Well it's a piano keyboard thing that also does Machine Learning." And my follow up would be, well of course it is "Does it also make fries?" And at this point, well sure, it makes it makes a certain twisted sort of sense. Maybe it's too many days of re:Invent in a row, maybe it's just at this point a certain level of cynicism that I can no longer escape. But, at this point, very little surprises me. But it seemed to be a very AWS event through and through. >> The volume and velocity of announcements was at the same level as last year. No real change there. >> Yes, I am saddened to report that the re:Invent house band is still there and has not yet been put to sleep to spare them and ourselves further misery but, we'll see. >> You didn't like the band? >> I think the band is slightly hokey. I would change the lyrics of some of the things that their singing to at least be humorous. If you're going to go corny, go all in. >> The guy did nail the Queen notes. >> Oh, they're terrific performers it has nothing to do with that. But it is 8 O'clock in the morning. So, one has questions. >> I think the keynote could have been a sleeper, without the band, don't you think? >> I do maintain that I want an Alexa skill That is just Andy Jassy reading rock lyrics. I would pay serious money for that. >> Well you did put some thought in. Stu, your thoughts on the show, wrap it up man, what's going on? >> Look I mean, the show as Dave Vallente says "Amazon always delivers with the shock and awe." You know, broadest and deepest, so many pieces here. I took a selfie with many people and the biggest celebrity of the show, AWS Outpost. The rack, it's over in the corner there, and people asking me about all the gear inside. I said "You should stop asking about that because you will never touch it, only AWS will." So put a curtain around it, it's managed as a service. And that's what I think people are still trying to understand. We've been talking about cloud for what, fifteen years now? But Amazon's positioning on cloud is still different than everyone else's. When I think back to some of the waves, there's that buzz word. And there's one or two that really architecturally are different and deliver, and Amazon laid out their strategy even more, and, through the geeky pieces, and transformation was the theme. Hey Corey, talking transformation I met you at this show a few years ago, and your special skill back then was wearing a three piece suit. >> Indeed. The problem is is when you start talking about cloud billing and cloud accounting and that sort of thing, in a three piece suit, you look like you're a CPA that got lost somewhere. So, my brand and personal sartorial preferences have continued to evolve. When you're talking about Outpost though, you're right. It's the clear star of the show, and I love that product so much. Not because of what they say about it, but because of the subtext that comes along with that product. Namely that "Look, you're going to run things on-prem, and the problem of course is that you suck at managing hardware. Now, this is going to take a lot of that away. You're still going to suck at providing connectivity and power, and AWS does not have anything to announce around those at this time, but we're slowly, delicately, prying your grubby little hands off of the hands on hardware server hugger mentality and dragging you, lovingly, kickingly, and screamingly, into the best technology, lets say 2012 has to offer at least." It's modern-ish. >> So, are cloud buyers naive, if they are just going to be buying these solutions from other clouds or prepackaged solutions. Is that really cloud or do they care? I mean, what's the difference between cloud native and cloud naive? What's your perspective? Besides the letter T. >> Of course. I think that there's a definite spectrum on how cloudy something can be. If you want to just take everything running in your existing data center, virtualize it, and then just put that into an AWS region, okay great. There are ways to do that and most of them have a VMware price tag tied to them, but okay, is that cloud? Ish. Is it the best approach? Maybe. I think it's hard to bucket all customers into one. Everyone's in a different place on their journey. And I guess architecture shaming, it's "Oh, what are you going to do with that piece of crap?" Like about eight billion dollars of revenue a year, why do you ask?" There are valid reasons to do a lot of different things and be at different points on your journey. I like seeing Twitter for pets evolve and do the latest and greatest thing. I don't like seeing for example, my bank doing the exact same thing. >> Yeah, I mean, Stu, it's beauty of the cloud is in the eye of the beholder. I mean what he's saying is and what Jassy's saying is "Look it, you can't just take, you know everyone and put them into a bucket, it's what you do with it." >> Yeah. It really comes back to what you want to do. >> I mean, John, I go back to, you know, things Werner said on the Keynote stage, everything fails all the time. The difference between the old architecture, which was "I'm going to do everything I can and I'm going to throw money and hardware at things to make it enterprise." Well, the new enterprise needs to look like what the Hyperscalers have been doing, which is, you build for software. Which means that everything fails all the time. That, our friendly chaos monkey will come in here and it doesn't matter what piece goes down, the application needs to stay up running. It's about the application, you know, application developers at the center of what's going on here, and you know, that modernization. I really liked Andy Jassy's answer, to what I asked him about, is if we go through this cloud Adoption, we talk about simplification and people want to buy over solutions but the successful company of the future will be builders. >> I got to ask you guys this question. I talked to a friend, and yes I have friends. So, he's in IT for a big company. I said "Hey, what do you think, AWS or Azure?" And I won't give away the names but he says look "We don't know what we're doing, like we're old school IT. We're running eight billion dollar business and we have network security. We're classic IT, we know we've got to get there, the boss is saying get to the cloud and, frankly, if we move to Amazon, half my team would either get fired or they wouldn't get it to work. So, we're just going to go with Microsoft because they've been selling us gear and stuff for decades." So, there we go, that's Azure. That has nothing to do with capability, that's a real-life scenario that we're hearing. Stu? Corey? >> It's incredibly important because once upon a time, I was a grumpy Unix admin because there's no other kind of Unix admin. And I was very anti-cloud for a long time. The reason was, I could come up with a whole list of flimsy justifications why the cloud was crap but the honest answer was I had built my sense of identity around the thing that I knew how to do and the cloud felt like it was taking it away from what I was. It wasn't true. There is a growth path, it's not as long as people often think it is but you can't fight the tide forever. And that world is slowly but surely eroding out from under you. Do you go Azure? Do you go AWS? That's going to depend on you, where you are, what your constraints are, what your business concerns are but I also think it's a miss-step to view the migration process solely as one of technology, it's people. >> Hold on, I need to chime in here, John, because I think >> You can slack in here too because people use that instead of chime. >> It is Goldilocks syndrome here. There is one cloud out there that you need to be a PHD and the smartest people out here to do it. There's one cloud out there that we're going to meet you where you are and you don't need to make any changes. What Amazon's trying to do is that balance between, we want to make it uncomfortable enough to make the change so that you can be successful in the future. Whether or not they've struck the right balance, I think, is up for debate and, this is a journey, >> Well, Hyperscale there are varies out there but I think, that's where I see the >> We'll there's two things, psychology of, just the change, right? Your Unix admin example and my friend, which is true, it's legit. Now, the question is what's the indifference of getting the path? But, if you look at the Hyperscalers Dave Vellante pauses that all the time They would spend engineering time to save money, so they'd engineer a solution, save time. Enterprise would spend money to save time. That's the general purpose computing market that used to be. >> Corey: Yeah >> It's not like that anymore. It's not general purpose. >> The entire theme of this show seems to be aimed much more at Big E enterprise than the leading edge type of story. There was a lot more Goldman-Sachs than Netflix, for example. And that's a good thing, and that's okay. >> I think it's a great thing. >> There's still room to grow, I mean, they did not announce an AWS 400. There's no mainframe story in the cloud as such yet. >> That's actually a mini computer, technically, okay >> Oh, I'm sure. >> But proprietary mini computer. >> You don't want to know what the billing model looks like. >> If you know what AS400 is, you're old like us. >> They call them I series now but, yeah, that's right, a U series. Done. >> All right guys, wrapping it up, this is the big point. Final word, Corey, Amazon, long game, still in play, no real impact from competition yet but they're in the rear view mirror. They're seeing stuff. Did Amazon successfully move the distance between them and the competition at this event? At least from a narrative and/or announcement stand point? >> Well, I will say that no other cloud has a Machine Learning piano. So, I think that that definitely is a differentiating factor and it adds another item to a checkbox list somewhere, that someone cares about. But as far as the core competency, I think, Outpost absolutely opens up a world of opportunity for folks who otherwise would not take that step. I think that they're demonstrating a rapid execution story around what it takes to get Big E enterprise workloads migrated and giving an on-ramp that doesn't require everyone being re-tooled, re-skilled and, oh, everything you're doing is great. But it's awful, throw it away and start over. >> And Stu, there's trillions of Dollars of spend coming in to the sector. Certainly, there's clear visibility the operating model's there, there's IT spend trillions are gonna be on the table up for grabs. >> You know what's interesting? Was watching a Netflix documentary about Bill Gates on the way in, talking about what Microsoft went through after the anti-trust piece. It is looming right in front of us, for AWS. The market power they have, it's still a relatively small piece of the overall IT market, absolutely Amazon has the potential to take a big chunk out of that, you know, trillions of dollars there. It is always day one here, they are always impressive as to the feedback loops, the way they are listening and they're growing, so, that was, we said, a year ago, it was the Oval office, the Executive Office, was the biggest threat to Amazon, it still is the biggest threat I see. >> I think the big story here from this re:Invent is Amazon recognizes two things, big enterprises need to transform their way to be successful to take advantage of the capabilities not take a transitional, incremental improvement and, two, they got competition. And they see it. And the pressure's definitely on, they won't admit it, but Microsoft, through their sales machinery, is taking down spend, and if that trend continues and will Microsoft have that ability to keep that going and not have dis-economies of scale for taking short-cuts. Can Amazon keep the pressure on? Because that, to me, is the big story and then it's clear, the narrative is keep pushing hard and try to extend the lead out past everybody. >> The answer is customers win. >> John, Amazon still doesn't use the word multi-cloud, they're architectural design is not to solve multi-cloud as it is to extend AWS and, it's interesting, we will see which design architecture wins out in the future. But, you know. >> Yeah. It's a three horse race, are the going to be number one? I think they recognize multi-cloud, they won't admit it but, why would you? If you were building a PC, why would you promote the Mac? And again, if they're commercial, who's the Mac guy and who's the PC guy, Corey? I mean, who's cooler? Microsoft or Amazon? >> These days? That's starts to become a bit of an open question. There's been fantastic transformational stories, as they say, it's not your grandfather's Microsoft. But, then again, Amazon has made some interesting choices as we go too. >> Stu, the Mac guy was cooler than the PC guy in those famous commercials, >> Absolutely he was. >> Who's cooler? Amazon or Apple? >> Corey, when you look at some of the cultural pieces, absolutely Microsoft has gone through some transformations. But Amazon was, for talking about AWS, they are cloud native. They are cloud. >> So they're cooler as far as Stu stands. Okay, depends how you look at it. This is a wrap up, guys, thanks for coming in, Corey, good to see you. >> Thank you for having me. >> I know you're working hard. >> Corey Quinn, one of the hardest working guys in the business, along with Stu Miniman, Dave Vellante, I'm John Furrier for John Walls, Jeff Frick, Leonard and the whole team, thanks for watching. I want to say, thanks to our sponsors who support our mission, which is to bring theCUBE to events and do as much high quality content as possible, with creators, decision makers, with executives, develop, whoever's got the action, the signal from the noise, we get that support by our sponsors, so without them, we wouldn't be here and of course Intel have the naming rights studio sponsorship as the headline, thank Intel and AWS for supporting, there's two stages here at AWS, so thank them and thanks to the entire team for watching. That's a wrap for AWS re:Invent 2019. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> live from Las Vegas. It's the queue covering Dell Technologies. World twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Dell Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> The one Welcome to the Special Cube Live coverage here in Las Vegas with Dell Technologies World 2019. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante breaking down day one of three days of wall the wall Coverage - 2 Cube sets. Uh, big news today and dropping here. Dell Technology World's series of announcements Cloud ability, unified work spaces and then multi cloud with, uh, watershed announced with Microsoft support for VMware with Azure are guests here theCUBE alumni that Seo, senior leader of'Em Where Sanjay *** and such a great to see you, >> John and Dave always a pleasure to be on your show. >> So before we get into the hard core news around Microsoft because you and Satya have a relationship, you also know Andy Jassy very well. You've been following the Clouds game in a big way, but also as a senior leader in the industry and leading BM where, um, the evolution of the end user computing kind of genre,  that whole area is just completely transformed with mobility and cloud kind of coming together with data and all this new kinds of applications. The modern applications are different. It's changing the game on how end users, employees, normal people use computing because some announcement here on their What's your take on the ever changing role of cloud and user software? >> Yeah, John, I think that our vision , as  you know, it was the first job I came to do at VMware almost six years ago, to run and use a computing. And the vision we had at that time was that you should be able to work at the speed of life, right? You and I happen to be on a plane at the same time  yesterday coming here, we should be able to pick our amps up on our devices. You often have Internet now even up at thirty thousand feet. In the consumer world, you don't lug around your CDs, your music, your movies come to you. So the vision of any app on any device was what we articulated with the digital workspace We. had Apple and Google very well figured out. IOS later on Mac,  Android,  later on chrome . The Microsoft relationship in end use the computing was contentious because we overlapped. They had a product, PMS and in tune. But we always dreamed of a day. I tweeted out this morning that for five and a half years I competed with these guys. It was always my dream to partner with the With Microsoft. Um, you know, a wonderful person, whom I respect there, Brad Anderson. He's a friend, but we were like LeBron and Steph Curry. We were competing against each other. Today everything changed. We are now partners. Uh, Brad and I we're friends, we'll still be friends were actually partners  now why? Because we want to bring the best of the digital workspace solution VMware brings workspace one to the best of what Microsoft brings in Microsoft 365 , active directory, E3 capabilities around E. M. S and into it and combined those together to help customers get the best for any device. Apple, Google and Microsoft that's a game changer. >> Tell about the impact of the real issue of Microsoft on this one point, because is there overlap is their gaps, as Joe Tucci used to say, You can't have any. There's no there's no overlap if you have overlapped. That's not a >> better to have overlapped and seems right. A gaps. >> So where's the gaps? Where this words the overlapping cloud. Next, in the end user world, >> there is a little bit of overlap. But the much bigger picture is the complementarity. We are, for example, not trying to be a directory in the Cloud That's azure active directory, which is the sequel to Active Directory. So if we have an identity access solution that connect to active directory, we're gonna compliment that we've done that already. With Octo. Why not do that? Also inactive Directory Boom that's clear. Ignored. You overlap. Look at the much bigger picture. There's a little bit of overlap between in tune and air Watch capabilities, but that's not the big picture. The big picture is combining workspace one with E. M s. to allow Office 365 customers to get conditional access. That's a game, so I think in any partnership you have to look past, I call it sort of these Berlin Wall moments. If the U. S and Soviet Union will fighting over like East Germany, vs West Germany, you wouldn't have had that Berlin wall moment. You have to look past the overlaps. Look at the much bigger picture and I find the way by which the customer wins. When the customer wins, both sides are happy. >> Tearing down the access wall, letting you get seamless. Access the data. All right, Cloud computing housely Multi cloud announcement was azure something to tell on stage, which was a surprise no one knew was coming. No one was briefed on this. It was kind of the hush hush, the big news Michael Delll, Pat Girl singer and it's nothing to tell up there. Um, Safia did a great job and really shows the commitment of Microsoft with the M wear and Dell Technologies. What is this announcement? First, give us your take an analysis of what they announced. And what does it mean? Impact the customers? >> Yeah, listen, you know, for us, it's a further That's what, like the chess pieces lining up of'Em wars vision that we laid up many years for a hybrid cloud world where it's not all public cloud, it isn't all on premise. It's a mixture. We coined that Tom hybrid loud, and we're beginning to see that realize So we had four thousand cloud providers starting to build a stack on VM, where we announced IBM Cloud and eight of us. And they're very special relationships. But customers, some customers of azure, some of the retailers, for example, like Wal Mart was quoted in the press, released Kroger's and some others so they would ask us, Listen, we're gonna have a way by which we can host BMO Workloads in there. So, through a partnership now with Virtue Stream that's owned by Dell on DH er, we will be able to allow we, um, where were close to run in Virtue Stream. Microsoft will sell that solution as what's called Azure V M, where solutions and customers now get the benefit of GMO workloads being able to migrate there if they want to. Or my great back on the on premise. We want to be the best cloud infrastructure for that multi cloud world. >> So you've got IBM eight of us Google last month, you know, knock down now Azure Ali Baba and trying you. Last November, you announced Ali Baba, but not a solution. Right >> now, it's a very similar solutions of easy solution. There's similar what's announced with IBM and Nash >> So is it like your kids where you loved them all equally or what? You just mentioned it that Microsoft will sell the VM wear on Azure. You actually sell the eight of us, >> so there is a distinction. So let me make that clear because everything on the surface might look similar. We have built a solution that is first and preferred for us. Called were MacLeod on a W s. It's a V m er manage solution where the Cloud Foundation stack compute storage networking runs on a ws bare metal, and V. Ember manages that our reps sell that often lead with that. And that's a solution that's, you know, we announced you were three years ago. It's a very special relationship. We have now customer attraction. We announce some big deals in queue, for that's going great, and we want it even grow faster and listen. Eight of us is number one in the market, but there are the customers who have azure and for customers, one azure very similar. You should think of this A similar to the IBM ah cloud relationship where the V C P. V Partners host VM where, and they sell a solution and we get a subscription revenue result out of that, that's exactly what Microsoft is doing. Our reps will get compensated when they sell at a particular customer, but it's not a solution that's managed by BM. Where >> am I correct? You've announced that I think a twenty million dollars deal last quarter via MacLeod and A W. And that's that's an entire deal. Or is that the video >> was Oh, that was an entirely with a customer who was making a big shift to the cloud. When I talked to that customer about the types of workloads, they said that they're going to move hundreds off their APs okay on premise onto via MacLeod. And it appears, so that's, you know, that's the type of cloud transformation were doing. And now with this announcement, there will be other customers. We gave an example of few that Well, then you're seeing certain verticals that are picking as yours. We want those two also be happy. Our goal is to be the undisputed cloud infrastructure for any cloud, any cloud, any AP any device. >> I want to get your thoughts. I was just in the analysts presentation with Dell technology CFO and looking at the numbers, the performance numbers on the revenue side Don Gabin gap our earnings as well as market share. Dell. That scales because Michael Delll, when we interviewed many years ago when it was all going down, hinted that look at this benefits that scale and not everyone's seeing the obvious that we now know what the Amazon scale winds so scale is a huge advantage. Um, bm Where has scale Amazon's got scale as your Microsoft have scales scales Now the new table stakes just as an industry executive and leader as you look at the mark landscape, it's a having have not world you'd have scale. You don't If you don't have scale, you're either ecosystem partner. You're in a white space. How do companies compete in this market? Sanjay, what's your thoughts on I thinkit's >> Jonah's? You said there is a benefit to scale Dell, now at about ninety billion in revenue, has gone public on their stock prices. Done where Dellvin, since the ideal thing, the leader >> and sir, is that point >> leader in storage leader inclined computing peces with Vienna and many other assets like pivotal leaders and others. So that scale VM, Where about a ten billion dollar company, fifth largest software company doing verywell leader in the softer to find infrastructure leader, then use a computing leader and softer, defined networking. I think you need the combination of scale and speed, uh, just scale on its own. You could become a dinosaur, right? And what's the fear that every big company should have that you become ossified? And I think what we've been able to show the world is that V M wear and L can move with scale and speed. It's like having the combination of an elephant and a cheetah and won and that to me special. And for companies like us that do have scaled, we've to constantly ask ourselves, How do we disrupt ourselves? How do we move faster? How do we partner together? How do we look past these blind spots? How do we pardon with big companies, small companies and the winner is the customer. That's the way we think. And we could keep doing that, you'll say so. For example, five, six years ago, nobody thought of VMware--this is going before Dell or EMC--in the world of networking, quietly with ten thousand customers, a two million dollar run rate, NSX has become the undisputed leader and software-defined networking. So now we've got a combination of server, storage and a networking story and Dell VMware, where that's very strong And that's because we moved with speed and with scale. >> So of course, that came to an acquisition with Nice Sarah. Give us updates on the recent acquisitions. Hep C e o of Vela Cloud. What's happening there? >> Yeah, we've done three. That, I think very exciting to kind of walk through them in chronological order about eighteen months ago was Velo Cloud. We're really excited about that. It's sort of like the name, velocity and cloud fast. Simple Cloud based. It is the best solution. Ston. How do we come to deciding that we went to talk to our partners like t other service providers? They were telling us this is the best solution in town. It connects to the data center story to the cloud story and allows our virtual cloud network to be the best softer. To find out what you can, you have your existing Mpls you might have your land infrastructure but there's nobody who does softer to find when, like Philip, they're excited about that cloud health. We're very excited about that because that brings a multi cloud management like, sort of think of it like an e r P system on top of a w eso azure to allow you to manage your costs and resource What ASAP do it allows you to manage? Resource is for materials world manufacturing world. In this world, you've got resources that are sitting on a ws or azure. Uh, cloud held does it better than anybody else. Hefty. Oh, now takes a Cuban eighty story that we'd already begun with pivotal and with Google is you remember at at PM world two years ago. And that's that because the founders of Cuban eighties left Google and started FTO. So we're bringing that DNA we've become now one of the top two three contributors to communities, and we want to continue to become the de facto platform for containers. If you go to some of the airports in San Francisco, New York, I think Keilani and Heathrow to you'LL see these ads that are called container where okay, where do you think the Ware comes from Vienna, where, OK, and our goal is to make containers as container where you know, come to you from the company that made vmc possible of'Em where So if we popularized PM's, why not also popularised the best enterprise contain a platform? That's what helped you will help us do >> talk about Coburn at ease for a minute because you have an interesting bridge between end user computing and their cloud. The service is micro. Services that are coming on are going to be powering all these APS with either data and or these dynamic services. Cooper, Nettie sees me the heart of that. We've been covering it like a blanket. Um, I'm gonna get your take on how important that is. Because back Nelson, you're setting the keynote at the Emerald last year. Who burn it eases the dial tone. Is Cooper Netease at odds with having a virtual machine or they complimentary? How does that evolving? Is it a hedge? What's the thoughts there? >> Yeah, First off, Listen, I think the world has begun to realize it is a world of containers and V ems. If you looked at the company that's done the most with containers. Google. They run their containers in V EMS in their cloud platform, so it's not one or the other. It's vote. There may be a world where some parts of containers run a bare metal, but the bulk of containers today run and Beyonce And then I would say, Secondly, you know, five. Six years ago, people all thought that Doctor was going to obliterate VM where, But what happened was doctors become a very good container format, but the orchestration layer from that has not become daugher. In fact, Cuban Eddie's is kind of taking a little of the head and steam off Dr Swarm and Dr Enterprise, and it is Cooper Navy took the steam completely away. So Senses Way waited for the right time to embrace containers because the obvious choice initially would have been some part of the doctor stack. We waited as Borg became communities. You know, the story of how that came on Google. We've embraced that big time, and we've stated a very important ball hefty on All these moves are all part of our goal to become the undisputed enterprise container platform, and we think in a multi cloud world that's ours to lose. Who else can do multi cloud better than VM? Where may be the only company that could have done that was Red Hat. Not so much now, inside IBM, I think we have the best chance of doing that relative. Anybody else >> Sanjay was talking about on our intro this morning? Keynote analysis. Talking about the stock price of Dell Technologies, comparing the stock price of'Em where clearly the analysis shows that the end was a big part of the Dell technologies value. How would you summarize what v m where is today? Because on the Kino there was a Bank of America customers. She said she was the CTO ran, she says, Never mind. How we got here is how we go floors the end wars in a similar situation where you've got so much success, you always fighting for that edge. But as you go forward as a company, there's all these new opportunities you outlined some of them. What should people know about the VM? We're going forward. What is the vision in your words? What if what is VM where >> I think packed myself and all of the key people among the twenty five thousand employees of'Em are trying to create the best infrastructure company of all time for twenty one years. Young. OK, and I think we have an opportunity to create an incredible brand. We just have to his use point on the begins show create platforms. The V's fear was a platform. Innocent is a platform workspace. One is a platform V san, and the hyper convert stack of weeks right becomes a platform that we keep doing. That Carbonetti stuff will become a platform. Then you get platforms upon platforms. One platforms you create that foundation. Stone now is released. ADelle. I think it's a better together message. You take VX rail. We should be together. The best option relative to smaller companies like Nutanix If you take, you know Veum Where together with workspace one and laptops now put Microsoft in the next. There's nobody else. They're small companies like Citrix Mobile. I'm trying to do it. We should be better than them in a multi cloud world. They maybe got the companies like Red Hat. We should have bet on them. That said, the end. Where needs toe also have a focus when customers don't have Dale infrastructure. Some people may have HP servers and emcee storage or Dell Silvers and netapp storage or neither. Dellery emcee in that case, usually via where, And that's the way we roll. We want to be relevant to a multi cloud, multi server, multi storage, any hardware, any cloud. Any AP any device >> I got. I gotta go back to the red hat. Calm in a couple of go. I could see you like this side of IBM, right? So So it looks like a two horse race here. I mean, you guys going hard after multi cloud coming at it from infrastructure, IBM coming at it with red hat from a pass layer. I mean, if I were IBM, I had learned from VM where leave it alone, Let it blossom. I mean, we have >> a very good partisan baby. Let me first say that IBM Global Services GTS is one about top sai partners. We do a ton of really good work with them. Uh, I'm software re partner number different areas. Yeah, we do compete with red hat with the part of their portfolios. Relate to contain us. Not with Lennox. Eighty percent plus of their businesses. Lennox, They've got parts of J Boss and Open Stack that I kind of, you know, not doing so well. But we do compete with open ship. That's okay, but we don't know when we can walk and chew gum so we can compete with Red Hat. And yet partner with IBM. That's okay. Way just need to be the best at doing containing platform is better than open shifter. Anybody, anything that red hat has were still partner with IBM. We have to be able to look at a world that's not black and white. And this partnership with Microsoft is a good example. >> It's not a zero sum game, and it's a huge market in its early days. Talk >> about what's up for you now. What's next? What's your main focus? What's your priorities? >> Listen, we're getting ready for VM World now. You know in August we want to continue to build momentum on make many of these solutions platforms. So I tell our sales reps, take the number of customers you have and add a zero behind that. OK, so if you've got ten thousand customers of NSX, how do we get one hundred thousand customers of insects. You have nineteen thousand customers of Visa, which, by the way, significantly head of Nutanix. How do we have make one hundred ninety thousand customers? And we have that base? Because we have V sphere and we have the Delll base. We have other partners. We have, I think, eighty thousand customers off and use of computing tens of millions of devices. How do we make sure that we are workspace? One is on billion. Device is very much possible. That's the vision. >> I think that I think what's resonating for me when I hear you guys, when you hear you talk when we have conversations also in Pat on stage talks about it, the simplification message is a good one and the consistency of operating across multiple environments because it sounds great that if you can achieve that, that's a good thing. How you guys get into how you making it simple to run I T. And consistent operating environment. It's all about keeping the customer in the middle of this. And when we listen to customs, all of these announcements the partnership's when there was eight of us, Microsoft, anything that we've done, it's about keeping the customer first, and the customer is basically guiding up out there. And often when I sit down with customers, I had the privilege of talking hundreds of thousands of them. Many of these CEOs the S and P five hundred I've known for years from S athe of'Em were they'LL Call me or text me. They want us to be a trusted advisor to help them understand where and how they should move in their digital transformation and compared their journey to somebody else's. So when we can bring the best off, for example, of developer and operations infrastructure together, what's called DEV Ops customers are wrestling threw that in there cloud journey when we can bring a multi device world with additional workspace. Customers are wrestling that without journey there, trying to figure out how much they keep on premise how much they move in the cloud. They're thinking about vertical specific applications. All of these places where if there's one lesson I've learned in my last ten twenty years of it has become a trusted advisor to your customers. Lean on them and they will lean on you on when you do that. I mean the beautiful world of technology is there's always stuff to innovate. >> Well, they have to lean on you because they can't mess around with all this infrastructure. They'LL never get their digital transformation game and act together, right? Actually, >>= it's great to see you. We'Ll see you at PM, >> Rollo. Well, well, come on, we gotta talk hoops. All right, All right, All right, big. You're a big warriors fan, right? We're Celtics fan. Would be our dream, for both of you are also Manny's themselves have a privileged to go up against the great Warriors. But what's your prediction this year? I mean, I don't know, and I >> really listen. I love the warriors. It's ah, so in some senses, a little bit of a tougher one. Now the DeMarcus cousins is out for, I don't know, maybe all the playoffs, but I love stuff. I love Katie. I love Clay, you know, and many of those guys is gonna be a couple of guys going free agents, so I want to do >> it again. Joy. Well, last because I don't see anybody stopping a Celtics may be a good final. That would be fun if they don't make it through the rafters, though. That's right. Well, I Leonard, it's tough to make it all right. That sounds great. >> Come on. Sanjay Putin, CEO of BM Wear Inside the Cube, Breaking down his commentary of you on the landscape of the industry and the big news with Microsoft there. Other partner's bringing you all the action here Day one of three days of coverage here in the Cubicle two sets a canon of cube coverage out there. We're back with more after this short break.

[Music] when welcome to the special exclusive cube conversation here in Palo Alto in our studios I'm John for your host of the cube we have a very special guest speaking for the first time around some alleged alleged accusations and also innuendo around the Amazon Web Services Jedi contract and his firm c5 capital our guest as Andre Pienaar who's the founder of c5 capital Andre is here for the first time to talk about some of the hard conversations and questions surrounding his role his firm and the story from the BBC Andre thanks for a rat for meeting with me John great to have me thank you so you're at the center of a controversy and just for the folks who know the cube know we interviewed a lot of people I've interviewed you at Amazon web sources summit Teresa Carl's event and last year I met you and bought a rein the work you're doing there so I've met you a few times so I don't know your background but I want to drill into it because I was surprised to see the BBC story come out last week that was basically accusing you of many things including are you a spy are you infiltrating the US government through the Jedi contract through Amazon and knowing c-5 capital I saw no correlation when reading your article I was kind of disturbed but then I saw I said a follow-on stories it just didn't hang together so I wanted to press you on some questions and thanks for coming in and addressing them appreciate it John thanks for having me so first thing I want to ask you is you know it has you at the center this firm c5 capital that you the founder of at the center of what looks like to be the fight for the big ten billion dollar DoD contract which has been put out to multiple vendors so it's not a single source deal we've covered extensively on silicon angle calm and the cube and the government the government Accounting Office has ruled that there are six main benefits of going with a sole provider cloud this seems to be the war so Oracle IBM and others have been been involved we've been covering that so it kind of smells like something's going along with the story and I just didn't believe some of the things I read and I want to especially about you and see five capitals so I want to dig into what the first thing is it's c5 capital involved in the Jedi contract with AWS Sean not at all we have absolutely no involvement in the Jedi contract in any way we're not a bidder and we haven't done any lobbying as has been alleged by some of the people who've been making this allegation c5 has got no involvement in the general contract we're a venture capital firm with a British venture capital firm we have the privilege of investing here in the US as a foreign investor and our focus really is on the growth and the success of the startups that we are invested in so you have no business interest at all in the deal Department of Defense Jedi contract none whatsoever okay so to take a minute to explain c5 firm I read some of the stories there and some of the things were intricate structures of c5 cap made it sound like there was like a cloak-and-dagger situation I want to ask you some hard questions around that because there's a link to a Russian situation but before we get to there I want to ask you explain what is c5 capital your mission what are the things that you're doing c5 is a is a British venture capital firm and we are focused on investing into fast-growing technology companies in three areas cloud computing cyber security and artificial intelligence we have two parts our business c5 capital which invests into late stage companies so these are companies that typically already have revenue visibility and profitability but still very fast-growing and then we also have a very early stage startup platform that look at seed state investment and this we do through two accelerators to social impact accelerators one in Washington and one in Bahrain and it's just size of money involved just sort of order magnitude how many funds do you have how is it structure again just share some insight on that is it is there one firm is there multiple firms how is it knows it work well today the venture capital business has to be very transparent it's required by compliance we are a regulated regulated firm we are regulated in multiple markets we regulated here in the US the sec as a foreign investor in london by the financial conduct authority and in Luxembourg where Afonso based by the regulatory authorities there so in the venture capital industry today you can't afford to be an opaque business you have to be transparent at all levels and money in the Western world have become almost completely transparent so there's a very comprehensive and thorough due diligence when you onboard capital called know your client and the requirements standard requirement now is that whenever you're onboard capital from investor you're gonna take it right up to the level of the ultimate beneficial ownership so who actually owns this money and then every time you invest and you move your money around it gets diligence together different regulators and in terms of disclosure and the same applies often now with clients when our portfolio companies have important or significant clients they also want to know who's behind the products and the services they receive so often our boards our board directors and a shell team also get diligence by by important clients so explain this piece about the due diligence and the cross country vetting that goes on is I think it's important I want to get it out because how long has been operating how many deals have you done you mentioned foreign investor in the United States you're doing deals in the United States I know I've met one of your portfolio companies at an event iron iron on it iron net general Keith Alexander former head of the NSA you know get to just work with him without being vetted I guess so so how long a c5 capital been in business and where have you made your investments you mentioned cross jurisdiction across countries whatever it's called I don't know that so we've been and we've been in existence for about six years now our main focus is investing in Europe so we help European companies grow globally Europe historically has been underserved by venture capital we on an annual basis we invest about twenty seven billion dollars gets invested in venture capital in Europe as opposed to several multiples of that in the US so we have a very important part to play in Europe to how European enterprise software companies grow globally other important markets for us of course are Israel which is a major center of technology innovation and and the Middle East and then the u.s. the u.s. is still the world leader and venture capital both in terms of size but also in terms of the size of the market and of course the face and the excitement of the innovation here I want to get into me early career because again timing is key we're seeing this with you know whether it's a Supreme Court justice or anyone in their career their past comes back to haunt them it appears that has for you before we get there I want to ask you about you know when you look at the kind of scope of fraud and corruption that I've seen in just on the surface of government thing the government bit Beltway bandits in America is you got a nonprofit that feeds a for-profit and then what you know someone else runs a shell corporation so there's this intricate structures and that word was used which it kind of implies shell corporations a variety of backroom kind of smokey deals going on you mentioned transparency I do you have anything to hide John in in in our business we've got absolutely nothing to hide we have to be transparent we have to be open if you look at our social media profile you'll see we are communicating with the market almost on a daily basis every time we make an investment we press release that our website is very clear about who's involved enough who our partners are and the same applies to my own personal website and so in terms of the money movement around in terms of deploying investments we've seen Silicon Valley VCS move to China get their butts handed to them and then kind of adjust their scenes China money move around when you move money around you mentioned disclosure what do you mean there's filings to explain that piece it's just a little bit so every time we make an investment into a into a new portfolio company and we move the money to that market to make the investment we have to disclose who all the investors are who are involved in that investment so we have to disclose the ultimate beneficial ownership of all our limited partners to the law firms that are involved in the transactions and those law firms in turn have applications in terms of they own anti-money laundering laws in the local markets and this happens every time you move money around so I I think that the level of transparency in venture capital is just continue to rise exponentially and it's virtually impossible to conceal the identity of an investor this interesting this BBC article has a theme of national security risk kind of gloom and doom nuclear codes as mentioned it's like you want to scare someone you throw nuclear codes at it you want to get people's attention you play the Russian card I saw an article on the web that that said you know anything these days the me2 movement for governments just play the Russian card and you know instantly can discredit someone's kind of a desperation act so you got confident of interest in the government national security risk seems to be kind of a theme but before we get into the BBC news I noticed that there was a lot of conflated pieces kind of pulling together you know on one hand you know you're c5 you've done some things with your hat your past and then they just make basically associate that with running amazon's jedi project yes which i know is not to be true and you clarified that joan ends a problem joan so as a venture capital firm focused on investing in the space we have to work with all the Tier one cloud providers we are great believers in commercial cloud public cloud we believe that this is absolutely transformative not only for innovation but also for the way in which we do venture capital investment so we work with Amazon Web Services we work with Microsoft who work with Google and we believe that firstly that cloud has been made in America the first 15 companies in the world are all in cloud companies are all American and we believe that cloud like the internet and GPS are two great boons which the US economy the u.s. innovation economy have provided to the rest of the world cloud computing is reducing the cost of computing power with 50 percent every three years opening up innovation and opportunities for Entrepreneurship for health and well-being for the growth of economies on an unprecedented scale cloud computing is as important to the global economy today as the dollar ease as the world's reserve currency so we are great believers in cloud we great believers in American cloud computing companies as far as Amazon is concerned our relationship with Amazon Amazon is very Amazon Web Services is very clear and it's very defined we participate in a public Marcus program called AWS activate through which AWS supports hundreds of accelerators around the world with know-how with mentoring with teaching and with cloud credits to help entrepreneurs and startups grow their businesses and we have a very exciting focus for our two accelerators which is on in Washington we focus on peace technology we focus on taking entrepreneurs from conflict countries like Sudan Nigeria Pakistan to come to Washington to work on campus in the US government building the u.s. Institute for peace to scale these startups to learn all about cloud computing to learn how they can grow their businesses with cloud computing and to go back to their own countries to build peace and stability and prosperity their heaven so we're very proud of this mission in the Middle East and Bahrain our focus is on on female founders and female entrepreneurs we've got a program called nebula through which we empower female founders and female entrepreneurs interesting in the Middle East the statistics are the reverse from what we have in the West the majority of IT graduates in the Middle East are fimo and so there's a tremendous talent pool of of young dynamic female entrepreneurs coming out of not only the Gulf but the whole of the MENA region how about a relation with Amazon websites outside of their normal incubators they have incubators all over the place in the Amazon put out as Amazon Web Services put out a statement that said hey you know we have a lot of relationships with incubators this is normal course of business I know here in Silicon Valley at the startup loft this is this is their market filled market playbook so you fit into that is that correct as I'm I get that that's that's absolutely correct what we what is unusual about a table insists that this is a huge company that's focused on tiny startups a table started with startups it double uses first clients with startups and so here you have a huge business that has a deep understanding of startups and focus on startups and that's enormous the attractor for us and terrific for our accelerators department with them have you at c5 Capitol or individually have any formal or conversation with Amazon employees where you've had outside of giving feedback on products where you've tried to make change on their technology make change with their product management teams engineering you ever had at c5 capital whore have you personally been involved in influencing Amazon's product roadmap outside they're just giving normal feedback in the course of business that's way above my pay grade John firstly we don't have that kind of technical expertise in C 5 C 5 steam consists of a combination of entrepreneurs like myself people understand money really well and leaders we don't have that level of technical expertise and secondly that's what one our relationship with AWS is all about our relationship is entirely limited to the two startups and making sure that the two accelerators in making sure that the startups who pass through those accelerators succeed and make social impact and as a partner network component Amazon it's all put out there yes so in in a Barren accelerator we've we formed part of the Amazon partner network and the reason why we we did that was because we wanted to give some of the young people who come through the accelerator and know mastering cloud skills an opportunity to work on some real projects and real live projects so some of our young golf entrepreneurs female entrepreneurs have been working on building websites on Amazon Cloud and c5 capital has a relationship with former government officials you funded startups and cybersecurity that's kind of normal can you explain that positioning of it of how former government if it's whether it's US and abroad are involved in entrepreneurial activities and why that is may or may not be a problem certainly is a lot of kind of I would say smoke around this conversation around coffin of interest and you can you explain intelligence what that was it so I think the model for venture capital has been evolving and increasingly you get more and more differentiated models one of the key areas in which the venture capital model is changed is the fact that operating partners have become much more important to the success of venture capital firms so operating partners are people who bring real world experience to the investment experience of the investment team and in c-five we have the privilege of having a terrific group of operating partners people with both government and commercial backgrounds and they work very actively enough firm at all levels from our decision-making to the training and the mentoring of our team to helping us understand the way in which the world is exchanging to risk management to helping uh portfolio companies grow and Silicon Valley true with that to injuries in Horowitz two founders mr. friendly they bring in operating people that have entrepreneurial skills this is the new model understand order which has been a great source of inspiration to us for our model and and we built really believe this is a new model and it's really critical for the success of venture capitals to be going forward and the global impact is pretty significant one of things you mentioned I want to get your take on is as you operate a global transaction a lots happened a lot has to happen I mean we look at the ICO market on the cryptocurrency side its kind of you know plummeting obsoletes it's over now the mood security children's regulatory and transparency becomes critical you feel fully confident that you haven't you know from a regulatory standpoint c5 capital everything's out there absolutely risk management and regulated compliance and legal as the workstream have become absolutely critical for the success of venture capital firms and one of the reasons why this becomes so important John is because the venture capital world over the last few years have changed dramatically historically all the people involved in venture capital had very familiar names and came from very familiar places over the last few years with a diversification of global economic growth we've seen it's very significant amounts of money being invest invested in startups in China some people more money will invest in startups this year in China than in the US and we've seen countries like Saudi Arabia becoming a major source of venture capital funding some people say that as much as 70% of funding rounds this year in some way or another originated from the Gulf and we've seen places like Russia beginning to take an interest in technology innovation so the venture capital world is changing and for that reason compliance and regulation have become much more important but if Russians put 200 million dollars in face book and write out the check companies bright before that when the after 2008 we saw the rise of social networking I think global money certainly has something that I think a lot of people start getting used to and I want on trill down into that a little bit we talked about this BBC story that that hit and the the follow-on stories which actually didn't get picked up was mostly doing more regurgitation of the same story but one of the things that that they focus in on and the story was you and the trend now is your past is your enemy these days you know they try to drum up stuff in the past you've had a long career some of the stuff that they've been bringing in to paint you and the light that they did was from your past so I wanted to explore that with you I know you this is the first time you've talked about this and I appreciate you taking the time talk about your early career your background where you went to school because the way I'm reading this it sounds like you're a shady character I like like I interviewed on the queue but I didn't see that but you know I'm going to pressure here for that if you don't mind I'd like to to dig into that John thank you for that so I've had the I've had the privilege of a really amazingly interesting life and at the heart of at the heart of that great adventures been people and the privilege to work with really great people and good people I was born in South Africa I grew up in Africa went to school there qualified as a lawyer and then came to study in Britain when I studied international politics when I finished my studies international politics I got head hunted by a US consulting firm called crow which was a start of a 20 years career as an investigator first in crawl where I was a managing director in the London and then in building my own consulting firm which was called g3 and all of this led me to cybersecurity because as an investigator looking into organized crime looking into corruption looking into asset racing increasingly as the years went on everything became digital and I became very interested in finding evidence on electronic devices but starting my career and CRO was tremendous because Jules Kroll was a incredible mentor he could walk through an office and call everybody by their first name any Kroll office anywhere in the world and he always took a kindly interest in the people who work for him so it was a great school to go to and and I worked on some terrific cases including some very interesting Russian cases and Russian organized crime cases just this bag of Kroll was I've had a core competency in doing investigative work and also due diligence was that kind of focus yes although Kroll was the first company in the world to really have a strong digital practice led by Alan Brugler of New York Alan established the first computer forensics practice which was all focused about finding evidence on devices and everything I know about cyber security today started with me going to school with Alan Brolin crawl and they also focused on corruption uncovering this is from Wikipedia Kroll clients help Kroll helps clients improve operations by uncovering kickbacks fraud another form of corruptions other specialty areas is forensic accounting background screening drug testing electronic investigation data recovery SATA result Omar's McLennan in 2004 for 1.9 billion mark divested Kroll to another company I'll take credit risk management to diligence investigator in Falls Church Virginia over 150 countries call Kroll was the first CRO was the first household brand name in this field of of investigations and today's still is probably one of the strongest brand names and so it was a great firm to work in and was a great privilege to be part of it yeah high-end high-profile deals were there how many employees were in Kroll cuz I'd imagine that the alumni that that came out of Kroll probably have found places in other jobs similar to yes do an investigative work like you know they out them all over the world many many alumni from Kroll and many of them doing really well and doing great work ok great so now the next question want to ask you is when you in Kroll the South Africa connection came up so I got to ask you it says business side that you're a former South African spy are you a former South African spy no John I've never worked for any government agency and in developing my career my my whole focus has been on investigations out of the Kroll London office I did have the opportunity to work in South Africa out of the Kroll London office and this was really a seminal moment in my career when I went to South Africa on a case for a major international credit-card company immediately after the end of apartheid when democracy started to look into the scale and extent of credit card fraud at the request of this guy what year was there - how old were you this was in 1995 1996 I was 25 26 years old and one of the things which this credit card company asked me to do was to assess what was the capability of the new democratic government in South Africa under Nelson Mandela to deal with crime and so I had the privilege of meeting mr. Mandela as the president to discuss this issue with him and it was an extraordinary man the country's history because there was such an openness and a willingness to to address issues of this nature and to grapple with them so he was released from prison at that time I remember those days and he became president that's why he called you and you met with him face to face of a business conversation around working on what the future democracy is and trying to look at from a corruption standpoint or just kind of in general was that what was that conversation can you share so so that so the meeting involved President Mandela and and the relevant cabinet ministers the relevant secretaries and his cabinet - responsible for for these issues and the focus of our conversation really started with well how do you deal with credit card fraud and how do you deal with large-scale fraud that could be driven by organized crime and at the time this was an issue of great concern to the president because there was bombing in Kate of a Planet Hollywood cafe where a number of people got very severely injured and the president believed that this could have been the result of a protection racket in Cape Town and so he wanted to do something about it he was incredibly proactive and forward-leaning and in an extraordinary way he ended the conversation by by asking where the Kroll can help him and so he commissioned Kroll to build the capacity of all the black officers that came out of the ANC and have gone into key government positions on how to manage organized crime investigations it was the challenge at that time honestly I can imagine apartheid I remember you know I was just at a college that's not properly around the same age as you it was a dynamic time to say the least was his issue around lack of training old school techniques because you know that was right down post-cold-war and then did what were the concerns not enough people was it just out of control was it a corrupt I mean just I mean what was the core issue that Nelson wanted to hire Kroll and you could work his core issue was he wanted to ensure the stability of South Africa's democracy that was his core focus and he wanted to make South Africa an attractive place where international companies felt comfortable and confident in investing and that was his focus and he felt that at that time because so many of the key people in the ANC only had training in a cold war context that there wasn't a Nessy skill set to do complex financial or more modern investigations and it was very much focused he was always the innovator he was very much focused on bringing the best practices and the best investigative techniques to the country he was I felt in such a hurry that he doesn't want to do this by going to other governments and asking for the help he wanted to Commission it himself and so he gave he gave a crawl with me as the project leader a contract to do this and my namesake Francois Pienaar has become very well known because of the film Invictus and he's been he had the benefit of Mandela as a mentor and as a supporter and that changed his career the same thing happened to me so what did he actually asked you to do was it to train build a force because there's this talk that and was a despite corruption specifically it was it more both corruption and or stability because they kind of go hand in hand policy and it's a very close link between corruption and instability and and president Ellis instructions were very clear to Crowley said go out and find me the best people in the world the most experienced people in the world who can come to South Africa and train my people how to fight organized crime so I went out and I found some of the best people from the CIA from mi6 the British intelligence service from the Drug Enforcement Agency here in the US form officers from the Federal Bureau of Investigation's detectives from Scotland Yard prosecutors from the US Justice Department and all of them for a number of years traveled to South Africa to train black officers who were newly appointed in key roles in how to combat organized crime and this was you acting as an employee he had crow there's not some operative this is he this was me very much acting as a as an executive and crow I was the project leader Kroll was very well structured and organized and I reported to the chief executive officer in the London office nor Garret who was the former head of the CIA's Near East Division and Nelson Mandela was intimately involved in this with you at Krall President Mandela was the ultimate support of this project and he then designated several ministers to work on it and also senior officials in the stories that had been put out this past week they talked about this to try to make it sound like you're involved on two sides of the equation they bring up scorpions was this the scorpions project that they referred to so it was the scorpions scorpion sounds so dangerous and a movie well there's a movie a movie does feature this so at the end of the training project President Mandela and deputy president Thabo Mbeki who subsequently succeeded him as president put together a ministerial committee to look at what should they do with the capacity that's been built with this investment that they made because for a period of about three years we had all the leading people the most experienced people that have come out of some of the best law enforcement agencies and some of the best intelligence services come and trained in South Africa and this was quite this was quite something John because many of the senior officers in the ANC came from a background where they were trained by the opponents of the people came to treat trained them so so many of them were trained by the Stasi in East Germany some of them were trained by the Russian KGB some of them were trained by the Cubans so we not only had to train them we also had to win their trust and when we started this that's a diverse set of potential dogma and or just habits a theory modernised if you will right is that what the there was there was a question of of learning new skills and there was a question about also about learning management capabilities there was also question of learning the importance of the media for when you do difficult and complex investigations there was a question about using digital resources but there was also fundamentally a question of just building trust and when we started this program none of the black officers wanted to be photographed with all these foreign trainers who were senior foreign intelligence officers when we finished that everyone wanted to be in the photograph and so this was a great South African success story but the President and the deputy president then reflected on what to do with his capacity and they appointed the ministerial task force to do this and we were asked to make recommendations to this Minister ministerial task force and one of the things which we did was we showed them a movie because you referenced the movie and the movie we showed them was the untouchables with Kevin Costner and Sean Connery which is still one of my favorite and and greatest movies and the story The Untouchables is about police corruption in Chicago and how in the Treasury Department a man called Eliot Ness put together a group of officers from which he selected from different places with clean hands to go after corruption during the Probie and this really captured the president's imagination and so he said that's what he want and Ella yeah okay so he said della one of the untouchables he wanted Eliot Ness exactly Al Capone's out there and and how many people were in that goodness so we asked that we we established the government then established decided to establish and this was passed as a law through Parliament the director of special operations the DSO which colloquy became known as the scorpions and it had a scorpion as a symbol for this unit and this became a standalone anti-corruption unit and the brilliant thing about it John was that the first intake of scorpion officers were all young black graduates many of them law graduates and at the time Janet Reno was the US Attorney General played a very crucial role she allowed half of the first intake of young cratchits to go to Quantico and to do the full FBI course in Quantico and this was the first group of foreign students who've ever been admitted to Quantico to do the full Quantico were you involved at what score's at that time yes sir and so you worked with President Mandela yes the set of the scorpions is untouchable skiing for the first time as a new democracy is emerging the landscape is certainly changing there's a transformation happening we all know the history laugh you don't watch Invictus probably great movie to do that you then worked with the Attorney General United States to cross-pollinate the folks in South Africa black officers law degrees Samar's fresh yes this unit with Quantico yes in the United States I had the privilege of attending the the graduation ceremony of the first of South African officers that completed the Quantico course and representing crow they on the day you had us relationships at that time to crawl across pollen I had the privilege of working with some of the best law enforcement officers and best intelligence officers that has come out of the u.s. services and they've been tremendous mentors in my career they've really shaped my thinking they've shaped my values and they've they've shaved my character so you're still under 30 at this time so give us a is that where this where are we in time now just about a 30 so you know around the nine late nineties still 90s yeah so client-server technologies there okay so also the story references Leonard McCarthy and these spy tapes what is this spy tape saga about it says you had a conversation with McCarthy me I'm thinking that a phone tap explain that spy tape saga what does it mean who's Lennon McCarthy explain yourself so so so Leonard McCarthy it's a US citizen today he served two terms as the vice president for institutional integrity at the World Bank which is the world's most important anti-corruption official he started his career as a prosecutor in South Africa many years ago and then became the head of the economic crimes division in the South African Justice Department and eventually became the head of the scorpions and many years after I've left Kroll and were no longer involved in in the work of the scorpions he texted me one evening expressing a concern and an anxiety that I had about the safety of his family and I replied to him with two text messages one was a Bible verse and the other one was a Latin saying and my advice name was follow the rule of law and put the safety of your family first and that was the advice I gave him so this is how I imagined the year I think of it the internet was just there this was him this was roundabout 2000 December 2007 okay so there was I phone just hit so text messaging Nokia phones all those big yeah probably more text message there so you sitting anywhere in London you get a text message from your friend yep later this past late tonight asking for help and advice and I gave him the best advice I can he unfortunately was being wiretapped and those wiretaps were subsequently published and became the subject of much controversy they've now been scrutinized by South Africa's highest court and the court has decided that those wiretaps are of no impact and of importance in the scheme of judicial decision-making and our unknown provenance and on and on unknown reliability they threw it out basically yeah they're basically that's the president he had some scandals priors and corruption but back to the tapes you the only involvement on the spy tapes was friend sending you a text message that says hey I'm running a corruption you know I'm afraid for my life my family what do I do and you give some advice general advice and that's it as there was there any more interactions with us no that's it that's it okay so you weren't like yeah working with it hey here's what we get strategy there was nothing that going on no other interactions just a friendly advice and that's what they put you I gave him my I gave him my best advice when you when you work in when you work as an investigator very much as and it's very similar in venture capital it's all about relationships and you want to preserve relationships for the long term and you develop deep royalties to its people particularly people with whom you've been through difficult situations as I have been with Leonard much earlier on when I was still involved in Kroll and giving advice to South African government on issues related to the scorpius so that that has a lot of holes and I did think that was kind of weird they actually can produce the actual tax I couldn't find that the spy tapes so there's a spy tape scandal out there your name is on out on one little transaction globbed on to you I mean how do you feel about that I mean you must've been pretty pissed when you saw that when you do it when when you do when you do investigative work you see really see everything and all kinds of things and the bigger the issues that you deal with the more frequently you see things that other people might find unusual I are you doing any work right now with c5 at South Africa and none whatsoever so I've I retired from my investigative Korea in 2014 I did terrific 20 years as an investigator during my time as investigator I came to understood the importance of digital and cyber and so at the end of it I saw an opportunity to serve a sector that historically have been underserved with capital which is cyber security and of course there are two areas very closely related to cyber security artificial intelligence and cloud and that's why I created c5 after I sold my investigator firm with five other families who equally believed in the importance of investing private capital to make a difference invest in private capital to help bring about innovation that can bring stability to the digital world and that's the mission of c-5 before I get to the heart news I want to drill in on the BBC stories I think that's really the focal point of you know why we're talking just you know from my standpoint I remember living as a young person in that time breaking into the business you know my 20s and 30s you had Live Aid in 1985 and you had 1995 the internet happened there was so much going on between those that decade 85 to 95 you were there I was an American so I didn't really have a lot exposure I did some work for IBM and Europe in 1980 says it's co-op student but you know I had some peak in the international world it must been pretty dynamic the cross-pollination the melting pot of countries you know the Berlin Wall goes down you had the cold war's ending you had apartheid a lot of things were going on around you yes so in that dynamic because if if the standard is you had links to someone you know talked about why how important it was that this melting pot and how it affected your relationships and how it looks now looking back because now you can almost tie anything to anything yes so I think the 90s was one of the most exciting periods of time because you had the birth of the internet and I started working on Internet related issues yet 20 million users today we have three and a half billion users and ten billion devices unthinkable at the time but in the wake of the internet also came a lot of changes as you say the Berlin Wall came down democracy in South Africa the Oslo peace process in the time that I worked in Kroll some of them made most important and damaging civil wars in Africa came to an end including the great war in the Congo peace came to Sudan and Angola the Ivory Coast so a lot of things happening and if you have a if you had a an international career at that time when globalization was accelerating you got to no a lot of people in different markets and both in crow and in my consulting business a key part of what it but we did was to keep us and Western corporations that were investing in emerging markets safe your credibility has been called in questions with this article and when I get to in a second what I want to ask you straight up is it possible to survive in the international theatre to the level that you're surviving if what they say is true if you if you're out scamming people or you're a bad actor pretty much over the the time as things get more transparent it's hard to survive right I mean talk about that dynamic because I just find it hard to believe that to be successful the way you are it's not a johnny-come-lately firms been multiple years operating vetted by the US government are people getting away in the shadows is it is is it hard because I almost imagine those are a lot of arbitrage I imagine ton of arbitrage that you that are happening there how hard or how easy it is to survive to be that shady and corrupt in this new era because with with with investigated with with intelligence communities with some terrific if you follow the money now Bitcoin that's a whole nother story but that's more today but to survive the eighties and nineties and to be where you are and what they're alleging I just what's your thoughts well to be able to attract capital and investors you have to have very high standards of governance and compliance because ultimately that's what investors are looking for and what investors will diligence when they make an investment with you so to carry the confidence of investors good standards of governance and compliance are of critical importance and raising venture capital and Europe is tough it's not like the US babe there's an abundance of venture capital available it's very hard Europe is under served by capital the venture capital invested in the US market is multiple of what we invest in Europe so you need to be even more focused on governance and compliance in Europe than you would be perhaps on other markets I think the second important point with Gmail John is that technology is brought about a lot of transparency and this is a major area of focus for our piece tech accelerator where we have startups who help to bring transparency to markets which previously did not have transparency for example one of the startups that came through our accelerator has brought complete transparency to the supply chain for subsistence farmers in Africa all the way to to the to the shelf of Walmart or a big grocery retailer in in the US or Europe and so I think technology is bringing a lot more more transparency we also have a global anti-corruption Innovation Challenge called shield in the cloud where we try and find and recognize the most innovative corporations governments and countries in the space so let's talk about the BBC story that hit 12 it says is a US military cloud the DoD Jedi contractor that's coming to award the eleventh hour safe from Russia fears over sensitive data so if this essentially the headline that's bolded says a technology company bidding for a Pentagon contract that's Amazon Web Services to store sensitive data has close partnerships with a firm linked to a sanctioned Russian oligarch the BBC has learned goes on to essentially put fear and tries to hang a story that says the national security of America is at risk because of c5u that's what we're talking about right now so so what's your take on this story I mean did you wake up and get an email said hey check out the BBC you're featured in and they're alleging that you have links to Russia and Amazon what Jon first I have to go I first have to do a disclosure I've worked for the BBC as an investigator when I was in Kroll and in fact I let the litigation support for the BBC in the biggest libel claim in British history which was post 9/11 when the BBC did a broadcast mistakenly accusing a mining company in Africa of laundering money for al-qaeda and so I represented the BBC in this case I was the manager hired you they hired me to delete this case for them and I'm I helped the BBC to reduce a libel claim of 25 million dollars to $750,000 so I'm very familiar with the BBC its integrity its standards and how it does things and I've always held the BBC in the highest regard and believed that the BBC makes a very important contribution to make people better informed about the world so when I heard about the story I was very disappointed because it seemed to me that the BBC have compromised the independence and the independence of the editorial control in broadcasting the story the reason why I say that is because the principal commentator in this story as a gentleman called John Wheeler who's familiar to me as a someone who's been trolling our firm on internet for the last year making all sorts of allegations the BBC did not disclose that mr. Weiler is a former Oracle executive the company that's protesting the Jedi bidding contract and secondly that he runs a lobbying firm with paid clients and that he himself often bid for government contracts in the US government context you're saying that John Wheeler who's sourced in the story has a quote expert and I did check him out I did look at what he was doing I checked out his Twitter he seems to be trying to socialise a story heavily first he needed eyes on LinkedIn he seems to be a consultant firm like a Beltway yes he runs a he runs a phone called in interoperability Clearing House and a related firm called the IT acquisition Advisory Council and these two organizations work very closely together the interoperability Clearing House or IC H is a consulting business where mr. Weiler acts for paying clients including competitors for this bidding contract and none of this was disclosed by the BBC in their program the second part of this program that I found very disappointing was the fact that the BBC in focusing on the Russian technology parks cocuwa did not disclose the list of skok of our partners that are a matter of public record on the Internet if you look at this list very closely you'll see c5 is not on there neither Amazon Web Services but the list of companies that are on there are very familiar names many of them competitors in this bidding process who acted as founding partners of skok about Oracle for example as recently as the 28th of November hosted what was described as the largest cloud computing conference in Russia's history at Skolkovo this is the this is the place which the BBC described as this notorious den of spies and at this event which Oracle hosted they had the Russian presidential administration on a big screen as one of their clients in Russia so some Oracle is doing business in Russia they have like legit real links to Russia well things you're saying if they suddenly have very close links with Skolkovo and so having a great many other Khayyam is there IBM Accenture cisco say Microsoft is saying Oracle is there so Skolkovo has a has a very distinguished roster of partners and if the BBC was fair and even-handed they would have disclosed us and they would have disclosed the fact that neither c5 nor Amazon feature as Corcovado you feel that the BBC has been duped the BBC clearly has been duped the program that they broadcasted is really a parlor game of six degrees of separation which they try to spun into a national security crisis all right so let's tell us John while ago you're saying John Wyler who's quoted in the story as an expert and by the way I read in the story my favorite line that I wanted to ask you on was there seems to be questions being raised but the question is being raised or referring to him so are you saying that he is not an expert but a plant for the story what's what's his role he's saying he works for Oracle or you think do you think he's being paid by Oracle like I can't comment on mr. Wireless motivation what strikes me is the fact that is a former Oracle executive what's striking is that he clearly on his website for the IC H identifies several competitors for the Jedi business clients and that all of this should have been disclosed by the BBC rather than to try and characterize and portray him as an independent expert on this story well AWS put out a press release or a blog post essentially hum this you know you guys had won it we're very clear and this I know it goes to the top because that's how Amazon works nothing goes out until it goes to the top which is Andy chassis and the senior people over there it says here's the relationship with c5 and ATS what school you use are the same page there but also they hinted the old guard manipulation distant I don't think they use the word disinformation campaign they kind of insinuate it and that's what I'm looking into I want to ask you are you part are you a victim of a disinformation campaign do you believe that you're not a victim being targeted with c5 as part of a disinformation campaign put on by a competitor to AWS I think what we've seen over the course of this last here is an enormous amount of disinformation around this contract and around this bidding process and they've a lot of the information that has been disseminated has not only not been factual but in some cases have been patently malicious well I have been covering Amazon for many many years this guy Tom Wyler is in seems to be circulating multiple reports invested in preparing for this interview I checked Vanity Fair he's quoted in Vanity Fair he's quoted in the BBC story and there's no real or original reporting other than those two there's some business side our article which is just regurgitating the Business Insider I mean the BBC story and a few other kind of blog stories but no real original yes no content don't so in every story that that's been written on this subject and as you say most serious publication have thrown this thrown these allegations out but in the in those few instances where they've managed to to publish these allegations and to leverage other people's credibility to their advantage and leverage other people's credibility for their competitive advantage John Wheeler has been the most important and prominent source of the allegations someone who clearly has vested commercial interests someone who clearly works for competitors as disclosed on his own website and none of this has ever been surfaced or addressed I have multiple sources have confirmed to me that there's a dossier that has been created and paid for by a firm or collection of firms to discredit AWS I've seen some of the summary documents of that and that is being peddled around to journalists we have not been approached yet I'm not sure they will because we actually know the cloud what cloud computing is so I'm sure we could debunk it by just looking at it and what they were putting fors was interesting is this an eleventh-hour a desperation attempt because I have the Geo a report here that was issued under Oracle's change it says there are six conditions why we're looking at one sole cloud although it's not a it's a multiple bid it's not an exclusive to amazon but so there's reasons why and they list six service levels highly specialized check more favorable terms and conditions with a single award expected cause of administration of multiple contracts outweighs the benefits of multiple awards the projected orders are so intricately related that only a single contractor can reasonably be perform the work meaning that Amazon has the only cloud that can do that work now I've reported on the cube and it's looking angle that it's true there's things that other clouds just don't have anyone has private they have the secret the secret clouds the total estimated value of the contract is less than the simplified acquisition threshold or multiple awards would not be in the best interest this is from them this is a government report so it seems like there's a conspiracy against Amazon where you are upon and in in this game collect you feel that collateral damage song do you do you believe that to be true collateral damage okay well okay so now the the John Wheeler guys so investigate you've been an investigator so you mean you're not you know you're not a retired into this a retired investigator you're retired investigated worked on things with Nelson Mandela Kroll Janet Reno Attorney General you've vetted by the United States government you have credibility you have relationships with people who have have top-secret clearance all kinds of stuff but I mean do you have where people have top-secret clearance or or former people who had done well we have we have the privilege of of working with a very distinguished group of senior national security leaders as operating partisan c5 and many of them have retained their clearances and have been only been able to do so because c5 had to pass through a very deep vetting process so for you to be smeared like this you've been in an investigative has you work at a lot of people this is pretty obvious to you this is like a oh is it like a deep state conspiracy you feel it's one vendor - what is your take and what does collateral damage mean to you well I recently spoke at the mahkum conference on a session on digital warfare and one of the key points I made there was that there are two things that are absolutely critical for business leaders and technology leaders at this point in time one we have to clearly say that our countries are worth defending we can't walk away from our countries because the innovation that we are able to build and scale we're only able to do because we live in democracies and then free societies that are governed by the rule of law the second thing that I think is absolutely crucial for business leaders in the technology community is to accept that there must be a point where national interest overrides competition it must be a point where we say the benefit and the growth and the success of our country is more important to us than making commercial profits and therefore there's a reason for us either to cooperate or to cease competition or to compete in a different way what might takes a little bit more simple than that's a good explanation is I find these smear campaigns and fake news and I was just talking with Kara Swisher on Twitter just pinging back and forth you know either journalists are chasing Twitter and not really doing the original courting or they're being fed stories if this is truly a smear campaign as being fed by a paid dossier then that hurts people when families and that puts corporate interests over the right thing so I think I a personal issue with that that's fake news that's just disinformation but it's also putting corporate inches over over families and people so I just find that to be kind of really weird when you say collateral damage earlier what did you mean by that just part of the campaign you personally what's what's your view okay I think competition which is not focused on on performance and on innovation and on price points that's competition that's hugely destructive its destructive to the fabric of innovation its destructive of course to the reputation of the people who fall in the line of sight of this kind of competition but it's also hugely destructive to national interest Andrae one of the key stories here with the BBC which has holes in it is that the Amazon link which we just talked about but there's one that they bring up that seems to be core in all this and just the connections to Russia can you talk about your career over the career from whether you when you were younger to now your relationship with Russia why is this Russian angle seems to be why they bring into the Russia angle into it they seem to say that c-5 Cable has connections they call deep links personal links into Russia so to see what that so c5 is a venture capital firm have no links to Russia c5 has had one individual who is originally of Russian origin but it's been a longtime Swiss resident and you national as a co investor into a enterprise software company we invested in in 2015 in Europe we've since sold that company but this individual Vladimir Kuznetsov who's became the focus of the BBC's story was a co investor with us and the way in which we structure our investment structures is that everything is transparent so the investment vehicle for this investment was a London registered company which was on the records of Companies House not an offshore entity and when Vladimir came into this company as a co investor for compliance and regulatory purposes we asked him to make his investment through this vehicle which we controlled and which was subject to our compliance standards and completely transparent and in this way he made this investment now when we take on both investors and Co investors we do that subject to very extensive due diligence and we have a very robust and rigorous due diligence regime which in which our operating partners who are leaders of great experience play an important role in which we use outside due diligence firms to augment our own judgment and to make sure we have all the facts and finally we also compare notes with other financial institutions and peers and having done that with Vladimir Kuznetsov when he made this one investment with us we reached the conclusion that he was acting in his own right as an independent angel investor that his left renova many years ago as a career executive and that he was completely acceptable as an investor so that you think that the BBC is making an inaccurate Association the way they describe your relationship with Russia absolutely the the whole this whole issue of the provenance of capital has become of growing importance to the venture capital industry as you and I discussed earlier with many more different sources of capital coming out of places like China like Russia Saudi Arabia other parts of the world and therefore going back again to you the earlier point we discussed compliance and due diligence our critical success factors and we have every confidence in due diligence conclusions that we reached about vladimir quits net source co-investment with us in 2015 so I did some digging on c5 razor bidco this was the the portion of the company in reference to the article I need to get your your take on this and they want to get you on the record on this because it's you mentioned I've been a law above board with all the compliance no offshore entities this is a personal investment that he made Co investment into an entity you guys set up for the transparency and compliance is that true that's correct no side didn't see didn't discover this would my my children could have found this this this company was in a transparent way on the records in Companies House and and Vladimir's role and investment in it was completely on the on the public record all of this was subject to financial conduct authority regulation and anti money laundering and no your client standards and compliance so there was no great big discovery this was all transparent all out in the open and we felt very confident in our due diligence findings and so you feel very confident Oh issue there at all special purpose none whatsoever is it this is classic this is international finance yes sir so in the venture capital industry creating a special purpose vehicle for a particular investment is a standard practice in c-five we focus on structuring those special-purpose vehicles in the most transparent way possible and that was his money from probably from Russia and you co invested into this for this purpose of doing these kinds of deals with Russia well we just right this is kind of the purpose of that no no no this so in 2015 we invested into a European enterprise software company that's a strategic partner of Microsoft in Scandinavian country and we invested in amount of 16 million pounds about at the time just more than 20 million dollars and subsequent in August of that year that Amir Kuznetsov having retired for nova and some time ago in his own right as an angel investor came in as a minority invest alongside us into this investment but we wanted to be sure that his investment was on our control and subject to our compliance standards so we requested him to make his investment through our special purpose vehicle c5 raised a bit co this investment has since been realized it's been a great success and this business is going on to do great things and serve great clients it c5 taking russian money no see if I was not taking Russian money since since the onset of sanctions onboarding Russian money is just impossible sanctions have introduced complexity and have introduced regulatory risk related to Russian capital and so we've taken a decision that we will not and we can't onboard Russian capital and sanctions have also impacted my investigative career sanctions have also completely changed because what the US have done very effectively is to make sanctions a truly global regime and in which ever country are based it doesn't really matter you have to comply with US sanctions this is not optional for anybody on any sanctions regime including the most recent sanctions on Iran so if there are sanctions in place you can't touch it have you ever managed Russian oligarchs money or interests at any time I've never managed a Russian oligarchs money at any point in time I served for a period of a year honest on the board of a South African mining company in which Renova is a minority invest alongside an Australian company called South 32 and the reason why I did this was because of my support for African entrepreneurship this was one of the first black owned mining companies in South Africa that was established with a British investment in 2004 this business have just grown to be a tremendous success and so for a period of a year I offered to help them on the board and to support them as they as they looked at how they can grow and scale the business I have a couple more questions Gabe so I don't know if you wanna take a break you want to keep let's take a break okay let's take a quick break do a quick break I think that's great that's the meat of it great job by the way fantastic lady here thanks for answering those questions the next section I want to do is compliment

>> (narrator) Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube, covering VMWorld 2018. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to Las Vegas everybody. You're watching the Cube, the leader in live-tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante and I'm here with my co-host, David Floyer. Good to see you again David. VMWorld day three, wall to wall coverage. We got sets going on. 94 guests. Patrick Osborne is here, he's the Vice President of Big Data and Secondary Storage at Hewlett Packard Enterprise. Patrick, it's great to see you again. >> Always a pleasure to be on the Cube. >> Big quarter, Antonio Neri early into his tenure. >> Yes. The earnings, raise guidance, great to see that. Got to feel good. Give us the update, VMworld 2018, what's happening with you guys? >> So Q3 was bang up quarter, for all segments of the business. It was great, you know. Obviously it's the kind of earnings you want to have from a CEO in a second quarter. Steering the ship here. I think everyone's jazzed up. He's brought a lot of new life to the company, in terms of technology leadership. He's someone who's certainly grown up, from the grounds up, starting off his career at HPE. So for us who have started off as a Product Manager, an individual contributor, making your way up to CEO is definitely possible. So that's been great and I think it's favorable micro economics and we're taking advantage of that. VMworld's been awesome. I think this whole story around Multicloud and obviously we talk about hybrid IT at HPE, so it fits very well. VMware Technology, partner of the year, again. Four years running, so it's been a really good show for us. >> As last year, data protection is the single, hottest topic. Data protection, obviously Cloud, The Edge, but The Edge is kind of new and it's hot, it's sexy. But in terms of actual business that's getting done, companies that are getting funded, companies getting huge raises, throwing big parties. We saw you back to back nights at Omnia, it's a lot happening in data protection. HPE has got a whole new strategy around data protection. Maybe talk about that a little bit and how it's going. >> So it's going really well, like you said, that part of the market, it's pretty hot right now. I think there's a couple of things playing into that, certainly this new style of IT, like applied to secondary storage. We saw that with primary storage the last few years. Multicloud, the move to all flash, low-latency workloads. And then, certainly a lot of the things, in that area, are disrupting secondary storage. People want to do it different ways, they want to be able to simplify this area. It's a growing area for data, in general. They want to make that data work for them. Test, Dev, workload placement, intelligent placement of data, for secondary and even tertiary storage in the cloud. So a lot of good things happening, from an HPE perspective. >> So not just back up? >> No, not just back up. >> I want more out of my insurance policy. >> Exactly. Something in the past that was moving from purely a TCO type of conversation. My examples are always like, who likes to pay their life insurance premium, right? Because at the end of the day, I'm not going to derive any utility from that payment. So now, it's moving into more ROI. So we have things like, the Hybrid Flash Array, from Nimble, for example. It allows you to put your workloads to work. We have a great cloud service, called HPE Cloud Volumes, that we use for our customers to be able to do intelligent DR, as a service, and be able to apply Cloud compute to your data. So there's a lot of things going on, in the space, that's just outside of your traditional move data from point A to point B. Now you want to make it work for you. >> And what about the big data portfolio? You hear a lot about data. You don't hear a ton about the Big Data, Hadoop piece of the world. I know Hadoop, nobody seems to be talking about that anymore. But everybody's talking about AI, Machine-Learning, Deep-Learning. Certainly The Edge is all about data. What's the Big Data story? >> So at HPE, we're definitely focused on the whole Edge to Core analytic story. So we have a great story and you can see in the numbers from Q3, The Edge business, The Edge line servers, Aruba, driving a lot of growth in the company, where a lot of that data is being created. And then back into the Core, so for Big Data, we see a number of customers, who are using these tools to affect digital transformation. They're doing it, we're doing it to ourselves. So they're moving from batch oriented, to now fast data, so streaming analytics. And then, incorporating concepts of AI and ML to provide better service or better experience for their customers. And we're doing that with, for example, InfoSight. So we have a great product, Nimble, 3PAR. And then we provide a service, on top of that, which is a SAS based service. It has predictive analytics and Machine Learning. And we're able to do that, by using Big Data analytics. >> You're offering that as a service, as a SAS service to your customers? >> Absolutely. And the way we're able to provide those predictive analytics and be able to provide those recommendations and that Machine-Learning across a entire portfolio and be able to scale that service, because it's a service, we got tens of thousands of users using the service on a daily basis, is moving from an ERP system, data warehouse, to batch analytics, to now we're doing Elasticsearch and Kafka and all these really cool techniques, so it's really helped us unlock a lot of value for our customers. >> So, the Nimble acquisision is interesting, it's bringing that sort of Machine-Learning and AI to infrastructure. You got a lot of automation in the portfolio and you can't really talk about Cloud without talking about automations. So talk a little about automation. >> In particular, even at the show here this week, we are a premier technology partner with VMware and I think more that you see in the VMware Ecosystem is all around Cloud and automation. That's really where they're going. And we've been day-zero partners on a lot of different fronts. So VMware Cloud Foundation integration, we do things on the storage level with Vvols and SRM and all these things that allow customers to essentially program that infrastucture and get out of the mundane tasks of having to do this manually. So for us, automation is key part of our story here. Especially with VMware. >> So going a little bit further with that, what sort of examples, what benefit is this to your customers? How are they justifying putting all this in? >> It's a hybrid world, so our customers are going to expect, from us, as a portfolio vendor, the ability to provide an automated solution, on premises, as automated as what you'd get in the cloud. So for us, the ability to have a sourcing experience, that we call GreenLake, so you can buy everything from us, from a solution perspective, in a pay-as-you-go elastic model where you can flex-up, flex-down. And then being able to, essentially provide a different view, depending on what persona you're coming from. Obviously we've been focused on the infrastructure persona, more often, we're getting into the DevOps persona, the Cloud engineer persona, providing all of our infrastructure, whether it's computer networking or storage, that plugs into all these frameworks. Whether it's Ansible, Chef and all these things that we do around our automation ecosystem, it's pretty ubiquitous. >> You're touching on all the Cloud basis and you're seeing a lot of discussion around that. What are you hearing from customers? Sometimes we have to squint through this, a lot of the guys here, we always like to say, move at the speed of the CIO, which sometimes is slow. At the same time, they're all afraid they're going to get disrupted. HPE, over the last two or three years, has really brought in and partnered with some of the guys your talking about. Whether it's containers and companies that do those types of offerings. How fast do the customers actually adopting, where they adopting them, how are they handling, you talked about a hybrid world; How are they bridging the old and the new? >> That's a great question. For a lot of our customers, it's always a brown field conversation. You do have these mission critical workloads that have to run, so there's no Edge to Core without your core ERP system, right? Your Core Oracle System or for smaller customers that are running their businesses on SQL and other things. But what we're seeing is that, by shoring up that Core and we provide a set of services and products that we feel are the best in the industry for that. And then allow them to provide adjacent services on top of that, it's exactly like the same example we had with InfoSight, where those systems use to call home, right now we're taking that data, we're providing a whole ancillary set of services and functions around it and our customers are doing that. Enormous customers, like British Telecom, folks like Wayfair, for example, they're doing this on premises and their disrupting their competitors, in the mean time. >> What do you make of some of the announcements we've heard this week? Obviously VMware making a big deal with what's going on with AWS. We're seeing AWS capitulate, David Floyer you made the call. Got to have an on-prem strategy. Many said no, that'll never happen. They just want to sweep the floor. So that's a tip to the hybrid cap. What are your thoughts on what's going on there? How does HPE sort of participate in those trends? >> I'd say it's, instead of battle and capitulate, we've been very laser-focused on the customers and helping them, along their way, on the journey. So you see a lot of acquisitions we've done around services, advisory service. CTP is a perfect example. So CTP has a whole cadre of experts who understand AGER, who understand ECS and all the services and functions that go along with them And we're able to help people, right size, right place, whatever you want to call it, within their infrastructure. Because we know, we've been in business for 75+ years and have a very loyal customer base, and we're going to help them along their maturity curve and certainly everyone's not on the same path, in the same race. It's been pretty successful so far. >> You guys tend to connect the dots between your HPE Discover in U.S., in Las Vegas and HPE Discover in December. So June to December, you're on these six month cycles, U.S. focus and Europe focus, Decembers in Madrid, again. Second year of Madrid. U.S. is always Vegas, like most of these conferences, what's the cadence that your on? What was the vibe like at Discover? What should we expect leading up to Q4, calendar Q4 in Madrid? >> I'd say that Discover was a big success in Vegas, always fun to spend time here. In Madrid, you'll see a focus around the value part of our business. So we've been growing in automation, we talked about hybrid IT, certainly the Core around storage. We're really focusing and very heavily invested in, not just storage, but intelligent data management. So we really feel that our offerings, especially doubling down and offering more services around InfoSight and some of those predictive and Cloud-ready user stories for our customers is something that definitely differentiates ourselves in the market. So we'll be very focused on the data plan, the data layer and helping customers transform in that area. >> So let's talk some tenor sax. >> (David laughs) >> This is not New Orleans. When we were down in New Orleans, we were at VeeamON, I think you had your sax with you, you jumped in. >> That's right, I played with the Soul Rebels. >> Playing with the Soul Rebels, you were awesome. Leonard, a big jazz man. Love it. I'm a huge TOP fan. What's new in that world? Are you still active? Are you still playing? >> Yeah, the band's still playing. Shout out to my buddies in Jolpe, sitting in with some friends at a Dead cover band coming up, in a couple weeks. So, should be fun. We're going to reenact The Grateful Dead and Branford Marsalis. >> That's wonderful. >> It should be fun. >> We've been getting a big dose of hip-hop this week. >> Yeah. But the new thing is that, in hip-hop, it's getting back to it's original roots, so a lot of folks in the jazz world, collaborating with the folks in the hip-hop world, so not very commercial, definitely underground, but pretty cool. >> I love it. That's right Leonard, you pointing out Miles Davis was one of the first to make that transformation. >> Yeah >> Good call. >> I'm going to get the numbers wrong, but it's about five percent technique and 95 percent attitude. (multiple laughs) >> Jazz, like hip-hop, there's a lot guys just doing their own thing. And somehow it all comes together. >> Absolutely. >> Okay Patrick, great to see you. >> Great to see you guys. Thank you Dave. Yeah, good to see you guys. >> Always a pleasure, go Sox. >> We got some time for talk stocks? >> Alright. >> What do you think? It's getting a little nerve wrecking. >> #Bucky Dent is trending in my Twitter. That's my problem, so hopefully we can..., I definitely don't want to be limping into the playoffs, and still not a fan of this one team wild card playoff, but I think we'll be alright. >> If we go deep... It's a great time to be a Boston fan. >> Celtics. >> Football starting, Celtics are coming in November, so awesome. Great to see you man. >> Thanks for having me. >> Keep it right there everybody, we'll be right back with our next guest. You're watching the Cube, live. Day three at VMWorld 2018, we'll be right back. (techno music)

>> Live from San José, in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE! Covering DataWorks Summit 2018. Brought to you by Hortonworks. (electro music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of DataWorks here in sunny San José, California. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, James Kobielus. We're joined by John Kreisa. He is the VP of marketing here at Hortonworks. Thanks so much for coming on the show. >> Thank you for having me. >> We've enjoyed watching you on the main stage, it's been a lot of fun. >> Thank you, it's been great. It's been great general sessions, some great talks. Talking about the technology, we've heard from some customers, some third parties, and most recently from Kevin Slavin from The Shed which is really amazing. >> So I really want to get into this event. You have 2,100 attendees from 23 different countries, 32 different industries. >> Yep. This started as a small, >> That's right. tiny little thing! >> Didn't Yahoo start it in 2008? >> It did, yeah. >> You changed names a few year ago, but it's still the same event, looming larger and larger. >> Yeah! >> It's been great, it's gone international as you've said. It's actually the 17th total event that we've done. >> Yeah. >> If you count the ones we've done in Europe and Asia. It's a global community around data, so it's no surprise. The growth has been phenomenal, the energy is great, the innovations that the community is talking about, the ecosystem is talking about, is really great. It just continues to evolve as an event, it continues to bring new ideas and share those ideas. >> What are you hearing from customers? What are they buzzing about? Every morning on the main stage, you do different polls that say, "how much are you using machine learning? What portion of your data are you moving to the cloud?" What are you learning? >> So it's interesting because we've done similar polls in our show in Berlin, and the results are very similar. We did the cloud poll pole and there's a lot of buzz around cloud. What we're hearing is there's a lot of companies that are thinking about, or are somewhere along their cloud journey. It's exactly what their overall plans are, and there's a lot of news about maybe cloud will eat everything, but if you look at the pole results, something like 75% of the attendees said they have cloud in their plans. Only about 12% said they're going to move everything to the cloud, so a lot of hybrid with cloud. It's how to figure out which work loads to run where, how to think about that strategy in terms of where to deploy the data, where to deploy the work loads and what that should look like and that's one of the main things that we're hearing and talking a lot about. >> We've been seeing that Wikiban and our recent update to the recent market forecast showed that public cloud will dominate increasingly in the coming decade, but hybrid cloud will be a long transition period for many or most enterprises who are still firmly rooted in on-premises employment, so forth and so on. Clearly, the bulk of your customers, both of your custom employments are on premise. >> They are. >> So you're working from a good starting point which means you've got what, 1,400 customers? >> That's right, thereabouts. >> Predominantly on premises, but many of them here at this show want to sustain their investment in a vendor that provides them with that flexibility as they decide they want to use Google or Microsoft or AWS or IBM for a particular workload that their existing investment to Hortonworks doesn't prevent them from facilitating. It moves that data and those workloads. >> That's right. The fact that we want to help them do that, a lot of our customers have, I'll call it a multi-cloud strategy. They want to be able to work with an Amazon or a Google or any of the other vendors in the space equally well and have the ability to move workloads around and that's one of the things that we can help them with. >> One of the things you also did yesterday on the main stage, was you talked about this conference in the greater context of the world and what's going on right now. This is happening against the backdrop of the World Cup, and you said that this is really emblematic of data because this is a game, a tournament that generates tons of data. >> A tremendous amount of data. >> It's showing how data can launch new business models, disrupt old ones. Where do you think we're at right now? For someone who's been in this industry for a long time, just lay the scene. >> I think we're still very much at the beginning. Even though the conference has been around for awhile, the technology has been. It's emerging so fast and just evolving so fast that we're still at the beginning of all the transformations. I've been listening to the customer presentations here and all of them are at some point along the journey. Many are really still starting. Even in some of the polls that we had today talked about the fact that they're very much at the beginning of their journey with things like streaming or some of the A.I. machine learning technologies. They're at various stages, so I believe we're really at the beginning of the transformation that we'll see. >> That reminds me of another detail of your product portfolio or your architecture streaming and edge deployments are also in the future for many of your customers who still primarily do analytics on data at rest. You made an investment in a number of technologies NiFi from streaming. There's something called MiNiFi that has been discussed here at this show as an enabler for streaming all the way out to edge devices. What I'm getting at is that's indicative of Arun Murthy, one of your co-founders, has made- it was a very good discussion for us analysts and also here at the show. That is one of many investments you're making is to prepare for a future that will set workloads that will be more predominant in the coming decade. One of the new things I've heard this week that I'd not heard in terms of emphasis from you guys is more of an emphasis on data warehousing as an important use case for HDP in your portfolios, specifically with HIVE. The HIVE 3.0 now in- HDP3.0. >> Yes. >> With the enhancements to HIVE to support more real time and low latency, but also there's ACID capabilities there. I'm hearing something- what you guys are doing is consistent with one of your competitors, Cloudera. They're going deeper into data warehousing too because they recognize they've got to got there like you do to be able to absorb more of your customers' workloads. I think that's important that you guys are making that investment. You're not just big data, you're all data and all data applications. Potentially, if your customers want to go there and engage you. >> Yes. >> I think that was a significant, subtle emphasis that me as an analyst noticed. >> Thank you. There were so many enhancements in 3.0 that were brought from the community that it was hard to talk about everything in depth, but you're right. The enhancements to HIVE in terms of performance have really enabled it to take on a greater set of workloads and inner activity that we know that our customers want. The advantage being that you have a common data layer in the back end and you can run all this different work. It might be data warehousing, high speed query workloads, but you can do it on that same data with Spark and data-science related workloads. Again, it's that common pool backend of the data lake and having that ability to do it with common security and governance. It's one of the benefits our customers are telling us they really appreciate. >> One of the things we've also heard this morning was talking about data analytics in terms of brand value and brand protection importantly. Fedex, exactly. Talking about, the speaker said, we've all seen these apology commercials. What do you think- is it damage control? What is the customer motivation here? >> Well a company can have billions of dollars of market cap wiped out by breeches in security, and we've seen it. This is not theoretical, these are actual occurrences that we've seen. Really, they're trying to protect the brand and the business and continue to be viable. They can get knocked back so far that it can take years to recover from the impact. They're looking at the security aspects of it, the governance of their data, the regulations of GVPR. These things you've mentioned have real financial impact on the businesses, and I think it's brand and the actual operations and finances of the businesses that can be impacted negatively. >> When you're thinking about Hortonworks's marketing messages going forward, how do you want to be described now, and then how do you want customers to think of you five or 10 years from now? >> I want them to think of us as a partner to help us with their data journey, on all aspects of their data journey, whether they're collecting data from the EDGE, you mentioned NiFi and things like that. Bringing that data back, processing it in motion, as well as processing it in rest, regardless of where that data lands. On premise, in the cloud, somewhere in between, the hybrid, multi-cloud strategy. We really want to be thought of as their partner in their data journey. That's really what we're doing. >> Even going forward, one of the things you were talking about earlier is the company's sort of saying, "we want to be boring. We want to help you do all the stuff-" >> There's a lot of money in boring. >> There's a lot of money, right! Exactly! As you said, a partner in their data journey. Is it "we'll do anything and everything"? Are you going to do niche stuff? >> That's a good question. Not everything. We are focused on the data layer. The movement of data, the process and storage, and truly the analytic applications that can be built on top of the platform. Right now we've stuck to our strategy. It's been very consistent since the beginning of the company in terms of taking these open source technologies, making them enterprise viable, developing an eco-system around it and fostering a community around it. That's been our strategy since before the company even started. We want to continue to do that and we will continue to do that. There's so much innovation happening in the community that we quickly bring that into the products and make sure that's available in a trusted, enterprise-tested platform. That's really one of the things we see our customers- over and over again they select us because we bring innovation to them quickly, in a safe and consumable way. >> Before we came on camera, I was telling Rebecca that Hortonworks has done a sensational job of continuing to align your product roadmaps with those of your leading partners. IBM, AWS, Microsoft. In many ways, your primary partners are not them, but the entire open source community. 26 open source projects in which Hortonworks represents and incorporated in your product portfolio in which you are a primary player and committer. You're a primary ingester of innovation from all the communities in which you operate. >> We do. >> That is your core business model. >> That's right. We both foster the innovation and we help drive the information ourselves with our engineers and architects. You're absolutely right, Jim. It's the ability to get that innovation, which is happening so fast in the community, into the product and companies need to innovate. Things are happening so fast. Moore's Law was mentioned multiple times on the main stage, you know, and how it's impacting different parts of the organization. It's not just the technology, but business models are evolving quickly. We heard a little bit about Trumble, and if you've seen Tim Leonard's talk that he gave around what they're doing in terms of logistics and the ability to go all the way out to the farmer and impact what's happening at the farm and tracking things down to the level of a tomato or an egg all the way back and just understand that. It's evolving business models. It's not just the tech but the evolution of business models. Rob talked about it yesterday. I think those are some of the things that are kind of key. >> Let me stay on that point really quick. Industrial internet like precision agriculture and everything it relates to, is increasingly relying on visual analysis, parts and eggs and whatever it might be. That is convolutional neural networks, that is A.I., it has to be trained, and it has to be trained increasingly in the cloud where the data lives. The data lives in H.D.P, clusters and whatnot. In many ways, no matter where the world goes in terms of industrial IoT, there will be massive cluster of HTFS and object storage driving it and also embedded A.I. models that have to follow a specific DevOps life cycle. You guys have a strong orientation in your portfolio towards that degree of real-time streaming, as it were, of tasks that go through the entire life cycle. From the preparing the data, to modeling, to training, to deploying it out, to Google or IBM or wherever else they want to go. So I'm thinking that you guys are in a good position for that as well. >> Yeah. >> I just wanted to ask you finally, what is the takeaway? We're talking about the attendees, talking about the community that you're cultivating here, theme, ideas, innovation, insight. What do you hope an attendee leaves with? >> I hope that the attendee leaves educated, understanding the technology and the impacts that it can have so that they will go back and change their business and continue to drive their data projects. The whole intent is really, and we even changed the format of the conference for more educational opportunities. For me, I want attendees to- a satisfied attendee would be one that learned about the things they came to learn so that they could go back to achieve the goals that they have when they get back. Whether it's business transformation, technology transformation, some combination of the two. To me, that's what I hope that everyone is taking away and that they want to come back next year when we're in Washington, D.C. and- >> My stomping ground. >> His hometown. >> Easy trip for you. They'll probably send you out here- (laughs) >> Yeah, that's right. >> Well John, it's always fun talking to you. Thank you so much. >> Thank you very much. >> We will have more from theCUBE's live coverage of DataWorks right after this. I'm Rebecca Knight for James Kobielus. (upbeat electro music)

>> Announcer: Live from Orlando, Florida. It's TheCUBE covering PentahoWorld 2017. Brought to you by Hitachi Ventara. >> Welcome back to TheCUBE's live coverage of PentahoWorld brought to you by Hitachi Ventara, we are wrapping up day one. I'm your host Rebecca Knight along with my cohosts today James Kobielus and Dave Vellante. Guys, day one is done what have we learned? What's been the most exciting thing that you've seen at this conference? >> The most exciting thing is that clearly Hitachi Ventara which of course, Pentaho is a centerpiece is very much building on their strong background and legacy and open analytics, and pushing towards open analytics in the Internet of things, their portfolio, the whole edge to outcome theme, with Brian Householder doing a sensational Keynote this morning, laying out their strategic directions now Dave had a great conversation with him on TheCUBE earlier but I was very impressed with the fact that they've got a dynamic leader and a dynamic strategy, and just as important Hitachi, the parent company, has clearly put together three product units that make sense. You got strong data integration, you got a strong industrial IOT focus, and you got a really strong predictive and machine learning capability with Pentaho for the driving the entire pipeline towards the edge. Now that to me shows that they've got all the basic strategic components necessary to seize the future, further possibilities. Now, they brought a lot of really good customers on, including our latest one from IMS, Hillove, to discuss exactly what they're doing in that area. So I was impressed with the amount of solid substance of them seizing the opportunity. >> Well so I go back two years, when TheCUBE first did PentagoWorld 2015, and the story then was pretty strong. You had a company in big data, they seemingly were successful, they had a lot of good customer references, they achieved escape velocity, and had a nice exit under Quentin Galavine, who was the CEO at the time and the team. And they had a really really good story, I thought. But I was like okay, now what? We heard about conceptually we're going to bring the industrial internet and analytics together, and then it kind of got quiet for two years. And now, you're starting to see the strategy take shape in typical Hitachi form. They tend not to just rush in to big changes and transformations like this, they've been around for a long time, a very thoughtful company. I kind of look at Hitachi limited in a way, as an IBM like company of Japan, even though they do industrial equipment, and IBM's obviously in a somewhat different business, but they're very thoughtful. And so I like the story the problem I see is not enough people know about the story. Brian was very transparent this morning, how many people do business with Hitachi? Very few. And so I want to see the ecosystem grow. The ecosystem here is Hitachi, a couple of big data players, I don't see any reason why they can't explode this event and the ecosystem around Hitachi Ventara, to fulfill it's vision. I think that that's a key aspect of what they have to do. >> I want to see-- >> What will be the tipping point? Just to get as you said, I mean it's the brand awareness, and every customer we had on the show really said, when he when he said that my eyes lit up and I thought oh wow, we could actually be doing more stuff with Hitachi, there's more here. >> I want to see a strong developer focus, >> Yeah. >> Going forward, that focuses on AI and deep learning at the at the edge. I'm not hearing a lot of that here at PentahoWorld, of that rate now. So that to me is a strategic gap right now and what they're offering. When everybody across the IT and data and so forth is going real deep on things like frameworks like TensorFlow and so forth, for building evermore sophisticated, data driven algorithms with the full training pipeline and deployment and all that, I'm not hearing a lot of that from the Pentaho product group or from the Hitachi Ventara group here at this event. So next year at this event I would like to hear more of what they're doing in that area. For them to really succeed, they're going to have to have a solid strategy to migrate up there, openstack to include like I said, a bit of TensorFlow, MXNet, or some of the other deep learning tool kits that are becoming essentially defacto standards with developers. >> Yeah, so I mean I think the vision's right. Many of the pieces are in place, and the pieces that aren't there, I'm actually not that worried about, because Hitachi has the resources to go get them, either build them organically, which has proven it can do overtime, or bring in acquisition. Hitachi is a decent acquire of companies. Its content platform came in on an acquisition, I've seen them do some hardware acquisitions, some have worked, some haven't. But there's a lot of interesting software players out there and I think there's some values, frankly. The big data, tons of money poured in to this open source world, hard to make money in opensource, which means I think companies like Hitachi could pick off to do some M and A and find some value. Personally, I think if the numbers right at a half a billion dollars, I personally think that that was pretty good value for Hitachi. You see in all these multi billion dollar acquisitions going left and right. And so the other thing is the fact that Hitachi under the leadership under Brian Householder and others, was able to shift its model from 80% hardware, now it's 50/50 software and services I'd like to dig into that a little bit. They're a public company but you can't really peel the onion on the Hitachi Ventara side, so it kind of is what they say it is, I would imagine that's a lot of infrastructure software, kind of like EMC's a software company. >> James: Right. >> But nonetheless, they're moving towards a subscription model, they're committed to that, and I think that the other thing is that a lot of costumers. We come to a lot of shows and they struggle to get costumers on with substantive stories, so we heard virtually every costumer we talked to today is like Here's how I'm using Pentaho, here's how it's affecting. Not like super sexy stories yet, I mean that's what the IOT and the edge piece come in, but fundamental plumbing around big data, Pentaho seems like a pretty important piece of it. >> Their fundamental-- >> Their fundamental plumbing that's really saving them a lot of money too, and having a big ROI. >> They're fairly blue-chip as a solution provider of a full core data of a portfolio of Pentaho. I think of them in many ways as sort of like SAP, not a flashy vendor, but a very much a solid blue-chip in their core markets >> Right. >> I'm just naming another vendor that I don't see with a strong AI focus yet. >> Yeah. >> Pentaho, nothing to sneeze at when you have one customer after another like we've had here, rolling out some significant work they've been doing with Pantaho for quite a while, not to sneeze at their delivering value but they have to rise to the next level of value before long, to avoid be left in the dust. >> You got this data obviously they're going to be capturing more more data with the devices. >> James: Yeah. >> And The relationship with Hitachi proper, the elevator makers is still a little fuzzy to me, I'm trying to understand how that all shakes up, but my question for you Jim is: okay so let's assume for second they're going to have this infrastructure in place because they are industrial internet, and they got the analytics platform, maybe there's some holes that they can fill in, one being AI and some of the deep learning stuff, can't they get that somewhere? I mean there's so much action going on-- >> Yes. >> In the AI world, can't they bring that in and learn how to apply it overtime? >> Of course they can. First of all they can acquire and tap their own internal expertise. They've got like Mark Hall for example on the panel, they've obviously got a deep bench of data scientist like him who can take it to that next level, that's important. I think another thing that Hitachi Ventara needs to do to take it to the next level is they need a strong robotics portfolio. It's really talking about industrial internet of things, it's robotics with AI inside. I think they're definitely a company that could go there fairly quickly, a wide range of partners they can bring in or acquire to get fairly significant in terms of not just robotics in general, but robotics for a broad range of use cases where the AI is not so much the supervise learning and stuff that involves training, but things like reinforcement learning, and there's a fair amount of smarts and academe on Reinforcement learning for in body cognition, for robots, that's out there in terms of that's like the untapped space other than the broad AI portfolio, reinforcement learning. If somebody's going to innovate and differentiate themselves in terms of the enterprise, in terms of leveraging robotics in a variety of applications, it's going to to be somebody with a really strong grounding and reinforcement learning and productizing that and baking that in to an actual solution portfolio, I don't see yet the Google's and the IBM's and the Microsofts going there, and so if these guys want to stand out, that's one area they might explore. >> Yeah, and I think to pick up on that, I think this notion of robotics process automation, that market's going to explode. We were at a conference this week in Boston, the data rowdy of Boston, the chief data officer conference at the Park Plaza, 20 to 25% of the audiences, the CDO's in the audience had some kind of RPA, robotic process automation, initiative going on which I thought was astoundingly high. And so it would seem to me that Hitachi's going to be in a good position to capture all that data. The other thing that Brian stressed, which a lot of companies without a cloud will stress, is that it's your data, you own the data, we're not trying to resell that data, monetize that data, repackage that data. I pushed him a little bit on well what about that data training models, and where do those models go? And he says Look we are not in the business of taking models and you know as a big consultancy, and bringing it over to other competitors. Now Hitachi does have consultancy, but it's sort of in a focus, but as Brian said in his keynote, you have to listen to what people say and then watch them to see how they act. >> Rebecca: Do they walk the walk? >> How they respond. >> Right. >> And so that's you have to make your decision, but I do think that's going to be a very interesting field to watch because Hitachi's going to have so much data in their devices. Of course they're going to mine that data for things like predictive analytics, those devices are going to be in factories, they're going to be in ecosystems, and there's going to be a battle for who owns the data, and it's going to be really interesting to see how that shakes out. >> So I want to ask you both, as you've both have said, we've had a lot of great customer stories here on TheCUBE today. We had a woman who does autonomous vehicles, we had a gamer from Finland, we had a benefit scientist out of Massachusetts, Who were your favorite customer stories and what excited you most about their stories? >> James: Hmmm. >> Well I know you like the car woman. >> Well, yeah the car woman, >> The car woman. >> Ella Hillel. >> Ella Hillel, Yes. >> The PHD. That was really what I found many things fascinating, I was on a panel with Ella as well as she was on TheCUBE, what I found interesting I was expecting her to go to town on all things autonomous driving, self driving vehicles, and so forth, was she actually talked about the augmentation of the driver, passenger experience through analytics, dashboards in the sense that dashboards that help not only drivers but insurance companies and fleet managers, to do behavioral modification to help them modify the behavior, to get the most out of their vehicular experience, like reducing wear and tear on tires, and by taking better roads, or revising I thought that's kind of interesting; build more of the recommendation engine capability into the overall driving experience. That depends on an infrastructure of predictive analytics and big data, but also metered data coming from the vehicle and so forth. I found that really interesting because they're doing work clearly in that area, that's an area that you don't need levels one through five of self driving vehicles to get that. You can get that at any level of that whole model, just by bringing those analytics somehow into an organic way hopefully safely, into your current driving experience, maybe through a heads-up display that's integrated through your GPS or whatever might be, I found that interesting because that's something you could roll out universally, and it can actually make a huge difference in A: safety, B: people's sort of pleasure with the driving experience, Fahrvergnugen that's a Volkswagon, and then also see how people make the best use of their own vehicular assets in an era where people still mostly own their own car. >> Well for me if there's gambling involved-- >> Rebecca: You're there. >> It was the gaming, now not only because of the gambling, and we didn't find out how to beat the house Leonard, maybe next time, but it was confirmation of the three-tier data model from from edge-- >> James: Yes. >> To gateway to cloud, and that the cloud is two vectors; the on-premise and the off-premise cloud, and the fact that as a gaming company who designs their own slot machines it's an edge device, and they're basically instrumenting that edge device for real-time interactions. He said that most of the data will go back, I'm not sure. Maybe in that situation it might, maybe all the data will go back like weather data, it all comes back, But generally speaking I think there's going to be a lot of analog data at the edge that's going to be digitize that maybe you don't have to save and persist. But anyway, confirmation of that three-tiered data model I think is important because I think that is how Brian talked about it, we all know the pendulum is swinging, swung away from mainframe to decentralize back to the centralized data center and now it's swinging again to a much more distributed sort of data architecture. So it was good to hear confirmation of that, and I think it's again, it's really early innings in terms of how that all shakes out. >> Great, and we'll know more tomorrow at Pentaho day two, and I look forward to to being up here again with both of you tomorrow. >> Likewise. >> Great, this has been TheCUBE's live coverage of PentahoWorld brought to you by Hitachi Ventara, I'm Rebecca Knight for Jim Kobielus and Dave Vellante, we'll see you back here tomorrow.

>> Voiceover: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Samsung Developer Conference 2017 brought to you by Samsung. >> Welcome back, we're live here in San Francisco. We're here at the SDC, the Samsung Developer Conference. I'm John Furrier, the co-founder of SiliconANGLE and co-host of theCUBE. My next guest, Lisa Fetterman, who is of Nomiku and she's a three-time, triple-star winner, Forbes Under 30- >> Inc 30 Under 30, and Zagat 30 under 30. That's a weird one. >> That's a great one. You're likely to get the Michelin Star soon. Tell us about your company. It's a really super story here. You have this new device you guys started. Tell the story. >> Well, speaking of Michelin Stars, I used to work under the best chefs in the nation. I worked under my Mario Batali, Jean-Georges at the three Michelin Star restaurants and I saw this huge, hulking piece of laboratory equipment. We would cook so many of our components in it and I'd lusted after one for myself, but they were $2000 and up, so that was like you know what, I'm going to save up money and then I went on a date with a plasma physicist and he said, "Hey, you know what, "we could just make it on our own." We run to the hardware store, we make a prototype. We travel all across the United States and teach people how to make their own DIY open-source sous vide kits to the point where we amassed so much attention that Obama invited us to the White House. And then we put it on Kickstarter and it becomes the #1 most-funded project in our category, and we are here today with our connected home sous vide immersion circulator that interacts with Samsung's Smart Fridge. >> That's a fantastic story of all in a very short time. Well done, so let me just back up. You guys have the consumer device that all the top chef's have. >> That's right. >> That's the key thing, right? >> It's consumable, low-priced, what's the price point? >> We do hardware, software, and goods. Right now the price of our machine is $49 on souschef.nomiku.com because it interacts with the food program. So there's food that comes with the machine. You weigh the food in front of the machine. It automatically recognizes the time and temperature. It interacts with different time and temperatures of different bags of food, and you just drop it in. In 30 minutes, you have a gourmet chef-prepared meal just the way that we would do it in Michelin Star restaurants. >> And now you're connecting it to Samsung, so they have this SmartThings Messaging. That's kind of the marketing, SmartCloud, SmartThings. What does that mean, like it's connected to the wifi, does it connect to an app? Take us through how it connects to the home. >> We're connected through Family Hub, which is the system inside of the Samsung Smart Fridge. Every single Samsung Smart Fridge ships with a Nomiku app pre-downloaded inside of it and the fridge and the Nomiku talk to each other so there's inventory management potential. There's learning consumer behaviors to help them. Let's say you cook a piece of chicken at 4:00 AM. You go to a subset of people who also do that, like wow, and then we recognize that those folks do CrossFit. They will eat again at 7:00 AM because they eat more little meals rather than full meals, and then we can recommend things for them as their day goes along, and help manage things for them, like a personal assistant. >> So it's like a supply chain of your personal refrigerator. So can you tell if the chicken's going to go bad so you cook the chicken now, kind of thing? That would be helpful. >> You can actually tell if the chicken's going to go bad. If the chicken, if there's a recall or the chicken's expired and you tap it with the machine, the machine will tell you to throw it out. >> So tell us about some of the travel's you've been under. You said you've traveled the world. You also have done a lot of writing, best-selling author. Tell us about your books and what you're writing about. >> I wrote the book called Sous Vide at Home. It's an international best-seller and it's sous vide recipes. Everybody has been lusting after sous vide since we invented the technology in 2012, so much actually that the market for it grows 2.5x every single year so the adoption rate is insane. The adoption rate for sous vide actually has surpassed that of the internet, the cell phone, and the personal computer. >> Why is the excitement on the Kickstarter, obviously, the record-breaking, and the sales, and the trend, why is it so popular? Is it 'cause it's a convenience? Is it the ease of use, all of the above? What's the main driver? >> All of the above. If you ever cooked in the kitchen and you've lost your confidence, it was mostly because you messed something up in the kitchen. This is foolproof cooking. So at 57 degrees Celsius, that's when the fat and the collagen melt into the muscle of steak, making each bite so juicy, tender, and delicious. We can set it at exactly that magic temperature, drop a steak in, and then put it in the water. When you cook it like that, there's no overcooking the muscle and it becomes effectively marbled by all that juicy, fat deliciousness. >> Aw, I'm kind of hungry already. >> Yeah. >> Lenny wants a steak. I can hear Leonard moaning over there. Okay, let's get down to the science here because a lot of people might not understand what temperatures to cook anything. Do you guys provide some best practices because this is a game-changer for my family of four. >> We want to meal cooked fast, but you want to have meals staged potentially and then recook them. How does someone use it? Is there a playbook? Is there a cookbook? >> Like we say in the industry, there's an app for that. The app is on the Smart Fridge and it's also on your smartphones. Moreover, so the machine acts as a stand-alone sous vide machine for you to cook your own recipes, and it also reads rfid tags from our meals. If you use our meals, then it's a no-brainer. You just tap and then put in the water. There's nothing more. Actually people get flustered that it's so easy. They're like, "That's it? "That was all that was?" But I hate smart devices that actually make people stupider. Being a stand-alone sous vide machine, you can create any of your recipes whether it's from my cookbook, the app, which is community-focused, so we have over 1000 recipes inside there from our community. People make it and they share it with the world. >> So with the Kickstarter, I'm just going to ask that next question. I'll say community layer. >> Sure. Kind of like is it a Reddit page? Do you have your own pages? What's going on with the community? Tell us about the community. >> Oh, the community. Everybody who has an OmniCube downloads our app called Tender and inside you can make your own-- >> Not to be confused with Tinder. >> Correct. >> Tender. >> Although I wouldn't mind if you confused it and instead of going out, I guess you're making dinner. >> Wife left for the steak and right for the chicken. >> (laughing) Exactly, exactly. We love the play on the word. >> That's great. >> When you make your own little profile, it encourages you to share. It's really fun because you can keep your recipes in there so you never have to look it up ever again. You can bing it and it goes directly to your machine. It's great for professional chefs, too 'cause you can share it with your entire team. >> So maybe we should start a Cube food channel. You can get a dedicated recipe channel. Exciting. >> That's great. Will you be my sous chef? >> (laughing) Course, I'm a great guest to have do that. If I can do it, anyone can do it. How do I get one? How do people buy? What's the deal? >> It's namiku.com for just our hardware, and in California, we've launched our food program on souschef.nomiku.com. Right now our machines for the food program are only $49. That is such a great value considering that souv vide machines are usually $200 and up right now. >> Awesome, well thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. Lisa Fetterman is CEO, entrepreneur of Namiku, entrepreneur of great stuff here in the Cube. Of course, we're bringing the food, tech, and remember, farming tech is big, too, so as the culture gets connected, the food from the farm to the table is being changed with data and IT. More after this short break. (innovative tones)

>> Narrator: Live, from Washington D.C., it's theCUBE. Covering .conf2017, brought to you by Splunk. >> Well, welcome back to .conf2017. Here we are at Splunk's annual get together, with Dave Vellante, I'm John Walls. We are live in the Walter Washington Convention Center, in beautiful Washington D.C. I say that, proud to be a native. Actually raised here, lived here, fly the flag here. >> Wow. >> This is my place, Dave. >> Listen, I love this city. >> I do too. >> I love coming down here. Lots to do, my son's down here, so. >> But if we weren't here, where should we be, maybe on the deck of a Carnival cruise line ship right now? >> That would be good. >> I would like that. >> I would love to have theCUBE on the deck of a Carnival >> Maybe, maybe Ruel Waite can swing that. What do you think? Ruel Waite joins us. He is the manager of delivery and support for Carnival. And you got room for two on the next ship out of Miami? >> Listen, man, for you guys anything. >> I love that. Alright, you're hired. >> I can make it happen. >> Outstanding. Alright Ruel, thanks for being here with us. >> No problem. >> On theCUBE, glad to have you, and here at the show as well. Alright, so let's talk about first off, Splunk. What are you doing? Let's back up, in terms of what you do. Your core responsibilities and then we'll get into Splunk story after that. >> Yeah, so I manage the support operation for our ecommerce platform, as well as for the guest facing ship board application. So the ecommerce platforms is where you go and purchase your cabin on the web. You would also be able to purchase your show excursions, your spa treatments, as well. Or we have an e-retail site where if you have a friend who's sailing you can buy a bottle of champagne and have it in their room for when they get there. So all those purchasing perks now that we support on the ecommerce platform. And then the guest facing application, Shipboard, we're talking 'about the mobile application where guests chat and interact with each other or plan their day. We're talking about the Pixels application where guests are purchase their photos that they take throughout their cruise. And their some facial recognition stuff there as well. And the iTV that's in your room. So we have a separate, many different sort of applications that fit under that portfolio. >> Let's talk about the data. >> Yes. >> A lot of data that you just created. >> Right? >> Yup. >> What's the data pipeline look like, where does Splunk fit? >> We Splunk as much as we can and we're continuing to build that as we go. Our application logs are Splunk, everything we produce from the application. Also our performance metrics from our servers and our data and our network, and all those systems, we Splunk that because that's critical for us to triage issues that occurring. Because our operation is about monitoring what's happening, it's about resolving issues as quickly as possible, and it's about communicating to our business. So those three things are data essential to all of that. So we need to get as much as we can and we need to be able to get insights into it. >> Can you talk about where you started, you had mentioned off camera about four years ago, and how you've been able to inject automation into your processes and just take us through your journey. >> Yeah, so we started a few years ago with Splunk, and it was primarily a triage tool for us. So an incident would occur, we'd try to get it, and look at some logs, figure out what's going on. And as we've evolved it's become more of a proactive alerting tool for us, it's become a communication tool, a collaborative tool, for us. You know, we leverage things like the ITSI, right. That allows us to understand the base line behavior of our system. Once we base line that then we can understand the spikes, we can understand when things are changing, and that allows us to react and quickly identify things, defects in our system, things that are occurring, and resolve them. So once we kind of got our legs around okay, we get how to use Splunk to find stuff, now let's figure out how to get Splunk to tell us stuff. >> Okay. >> Right? And now once Splunk is telling us stuff, let's figure out how we tell the business that stuff. So that's kind of how we the journey we've had with Splunk. >> And Splunk's in that thread the whole way? >> The whole way. >> So from, >> The whole. >> So, ultimately then, right now what are you putting into practice that you didn't have available >> Yeah, sure. >> two, three years ago? >> Yeah sure, so one of the challenges we had was, with a typical ecommerce site you have several layers of the application, right. You have your web server, you have caching infrastructure, you have a database server, yet we have a mainframe reservation system as well. So there are several things involved with supporting all those different platforms. Now when we have an incident, it's sometimes challenging to, you know you get somebody on the phone, you're like hey what are you seeing over there on the mainframe side? Well I see this error occurring. Oh and the database side they're telling you okay, we're seeing some sort of timeout here, but we're not sure if it's related to the same thing you're talking about. And we didn't have a way to tie it together. But by using Splunk Transactions what we decided to do was we decided to log the session ID, the web servers session ID across all our layers, right, and push that through, and that allows us to tie those transactions together across those layers. And now when we have an incident we're able to, when we're talking to the mainframe we're saying hey guy, hey go look at this. And he say here's what I'm seeing. >> You can isolate it? >> We can isolate it, we can pull it together, and it's really helpful. >> So will you get to the point, or you were trying to get to the point, where you can automate the remediation? Or is that something you don't want to do 'cause you want humans involved? >> You know, automation is good. And whatever we can automate we try to do that. At this point we're not automating the resolution through Splunk at this time, but what we are doing is we are providing the on call, or the engineer that are responding with as much information as we can in order to have them quickly flip that switch. So if we have an alert that we know, hey this issue requires a recycle of an application pool, or some kind of other action like that, we can put that in our Splunk alert. And we say hey we're seeing this issue occur. That email and that text message that goes out actually tells the engineer that these are the suggested actions that you can take in order to quickly resolve this issue. >> Ruel, what are you hearing from the business side? What are the business drivers and how is that effecting what you're doing in IT generally, and specifically with data and Splunk? >> Okay so from business side we're looking at most bookings is the one of the major metrics that we look at. And our guest experience. So and on the web that means the site needs to be available, it needs to perform, and it needs to work. So what we really are trying to do with Splunk is understand those issues that are impacting our guests on the booking side. What that means is we need to know how well we're converting. And if we're looking at homepage performance, and we can now tell hey if our homepage loads in five seconds verses three seconds, there are how many fewer people make it to our payment page, which is huge for us. So that's something that we really try to hone in on. And it really helps us to collaborate with the business and understand, really, what is the revenue impact of these IT metrics that we're spitting out. >> But there could be other factors involved in that too, >> Yes. >> other variables, right? >> There are. >> You can't just you know this is, but you have enough of a track record the are a couple reasons to say okay, five seconds means this, we get a 30% conversion rate. We get three seconds, man, we got 'em hello, and, now we have a 50%, whatever. >> Yeah, but that is where, what I'm excited about at the conference is the machine learning capabilities that we've been hearing about. 'Cause that will allow us to then model how those different factors that go into when someone goes from the homepage to payment, you're totally right. There's several things that go into that. And what we want to be able to model, hey, on a normal day here's our guest behavior, whether we have a sale, how do our guests behavior differently, or on a Monday night at eight PM what is the behavioral trend. So it's all important to us. And getting the data behind it and being able to model that is going to be really key for us. >> Connect the dots for me on >> Yes. >> how you use machine learning, and how will that affect the business? You'll make different offers at different times, or? >> So what I mean is if I understand how guests behave I will know if I'm having an issue on the site. If there's something happening that's impacting their ability to book. 'Cause sometimes you do a release, you do your quality control, and then you go home, everything looks good. And sometimes hours later, sometimes days later unfortunately, something pops up that you introduced during that release. And understanding what that baseline is, right. So what Splunk has allowed us to do is say okay, here's what normal behavior is. And we're trying to grow this more, but what we've been using ITSI to say here's what that behavior really is. Based on what we kind of know are the metrics around booking. Here's what that behavior is. And we do a release and we see a spike, a change, and now we're able to say wait a minute, we never saw this error before. This error never existed in our system at any point. That was definitely something that was introduced right here in this release, we need to go ahead and resolve this as well. And sometimes you get some false positives there, if your development team is doing change the way they log a little bit you might get a spike. But that's cool because you get to go in immediately and figure out what those changes are, and you get a comfort level that you kind of understand how your system works. >> Let me ask you another question. You got some experience with Splunk. >> Yes. >> Obviously, you were just working with them. What, in your mind, is on their to do list? What do you want to see out of them? Doug, if I'm Doug. Tell me, where should I go, what should I do. >> What do I want Splunk to do. >> Any gripes, give me the good, the bad, and the ugly. >> For me, it's performance, performance, performance. I want to see my queries run as quickly as possible. I want to see things fast. I want to hit the button and it happens right away. Now obviously that's not going to, that's not realistic. But I like what some of the things that Splunk are doing. You look at the new metrics index that they've been talking about the last two days. So they've now isolated your time serious data and they're able to optimize the searches on time serious data seperate from your application logs. So, you know, your CPUs, your memory consumption, that data is not the same as your logging an error, or logging that a booking was created, or something like that. Those are kind of two different things. So they have kind of decoupled that and they're saying anything that's time serious I'm going to put it over here. And I'm going to optimize that query, and then you can handle your other logs separately. But the additional benefit of that is then you can take your time serious and you can look at a CPU spike and then you can take your event data and overlay it on top. And then you can see, hey wait a minute, this event is what caused that spike. So that's where the cool is. >> I think they call that mstats. Is that right, mstats? >> Yes, it's mstats, yes. >> How 'about the stuff that you saw this week in the keynotes, particularly today was the product stuff. A lot of security obviously. Anything that you've seen here at the show that excites you, that you really said alright, I got to have that, I got to learn more? >> Yeah, so the ITSI event analytics really seems like something's going to be cool for us. As I've said before, we utilize ITSI internally. So we put together a glass table that's shows us here are all the different components and the hierarchy of things. And when this goes red it effects these other layers. And it's really cool. But what they've added in is the ability to click a button and drill in to those components and then you have a view of hey, here are the events associated with that. That's really cool because now you're triaging in one place, now you get to the problem really quick. And you can emote directly into your Splunk queries. It really allows what we're looking for is just to resolve issues as quickly as possible. >> And you're describing, if I understand this correctly, you can visualize the dependencies, and you can take remedial action or identify, inform the business what to expect. >> Exactly. >> Be much more proactive, that's what people are talking about. >> Yeah, yeah. And we found that one of the surprising things we found with Splunk is that our business are users of Splunk as well, right. So it's always an IT tool, it's something that only the geeks are going to look at. And then all of a sudden you present a dashboard to a business user and they go ah. That's pretty, right. And then all of a sudden they want it more than you do. So that's what makes it great right, 'cause you can present the data however you want and you can put it in a way that different audiences can consume. And so it becomes a platform that goes across the organization, which is really, really cool. >> John: But your bottom line's all speed right? >> Yes, yeah. >> Take care of my problems faster, get my customer faster, deliver faster, come on Splunk. >> Come on, let's go. >> We want to go. >> Brings the weekend faster. >> Right, right. >> Get more sleep, get more sleep. >> Ruel, thanks for being with us. >> Oh. >> We appreciate that. >> And, we'll talk about the cruise. Leonard Nelson, our producer over here already said book him for a massage, the presidential suite. He wants one night, and then the champagne buffet please. >> It's done. >> Fast internet, though. >> Yeah. >> Fast internet, yeah. It's done. >> Alright. We're simple people, we don't need all that, but we'll talk later. >> Alright man, appreciate it, thank you. >> Thank you for being with us. Ruel Waite joining us from Carnival. Back with more from Splunk, .conf2017. 2015, where did that come from? 2017, it's been a long day. (upbeat music)

>> Live from San Francisco. It's theCUBE. Covering DevNet Create 2017. Brought to you by Cisco. >> Welcome back everyone. We're here live in San Francisco for theCUBE's exclusive two days of coverage for Cisco Systems' inaugural event called DevNet Create extension. DevNet their classic developer program, for the Cisco install base of network routers. Now going to the cloud, native, going to the developer where dev-ops and the enterprise are connecting. I'm John Furrier, my cohost Peter Burris. Next is Dan Kohn, who is the Executive Director of the Cloud Native Compute Foundation, CNCF. Formerly known as Kubecon. Which is the event, Kubecon.io. Dan, great to see you. Executive Director, how's business, is going good? >> Fantastic! (John laughs) Yeah, six months ago we chatted at our last event in Seattle. And it's just amazing to see the progress since then. Projects members. >> It's been a whirlwind. Even I can't keep track. You guys are announcing all these new projects. What's the current count of projects that you guys have under the Cloud Native Compute Foundation? >> So we're up to 10. I should definitely start with the fact that Kubernetes is the anchor 10 in our original project. In a lot of ways, foundation was setup around that. And that project is just continuing to do incredibly well. Where it's one of the highest velocity projects in the history of open source. In terms of number of authors, number of commits, poll requests, issues. But now we have a constellation of other projects that are in support of that one. It can be used in a lot of different ways. >> John: Yeah. >> That we've been adding in. >> We had Craig McLuckie on earlier. Now he's with Heptio. Again, when he was doing that work, at Google, back in the days with what's his name from Microsoft now. >> Peter: Brendan Burns. >> Brendan Burns, yeah. >> Now it's an interesting question, where you say, oh, wait a minute, the three sort of key people behind Kubernetes, Craig McLuckie, Joe Beda, who's his co-founder at Heptio, then Brendan Burns, they all left Google. Is this a bad sign for the project and the technology? >> John: No, I don't think so. >> And we would say it's a spectacularly good sign. Now, if they had left and said, ah you know, containers, I'm going to do virtual machines. But in fact they said, there's such an enormous market for this. And to have Microsoft and Azure step in and say, we really want to invest in this space and we want to bring on one of the co-founders, Brendan. And for the other two co-founders, say, hey Google is making a huge investment. But we also think there's an opportunity for independent venture funded startup. >> Craig is completely passionate about this because there is an interoperability ethos that's always been around the open web. >> Dan: Umhmm. >> And certainly open source has the same ethos. Cloud Native brings an interesting thing, and it's clear now to people that there's not going to be one cloud winning them all. >> It's a multi-could world. >> Dan: Right. >> How is the Cloud Native Foundation floating in the open source world? Is it gravitating towards more infrastructure, more edge, software edge? Are you guys kind of in the middle? Are you guys the glue layer? How do you view that? >> Sure. So one way of looking at what we're doing is, helping to build a stack of software. That allows you to run your applications either on bare metal in your own data center or on any of the public clouds. Or hybrid solution where you're mixing back and forth. But the key idea is that all the core parts of that are open source. They're supported by multiple different vendors. And what that means is, you get to avoid lock-it. So today, Amazon web services has some of the most extraordinary engineering. They have all these great services that make it very easy to go onboard. But if you build your whole architecture around that, then you're stuck with AWS forever. And when time goes up, time to renegotiate your contract in a year or two, you're back again and don't have a lot of leverage. Where we think AWS is fantastic platform to run Kubernetes, to run our other projects on top of. But we don't think you want to lock-in to those services to such a degree. >> Okay, when I'm on, first of all, pretend I'm Amazon, I'm a competitive strategist, lock-in, I got to get you locked-in. I'm just going to run Kubernetes on Amazon. Why don't I just do that? >> We think that's a great solution. >> John: You do? >> Heptio and lots other folks make it very easy to run Kubernetes on Amazon. But we also think you should at least look at Kubernetes on Bluemix, on Google, on Azure. And know that in the future when you're negotiation comes up, even if you never leave, you at least threaten to leave. That you're not locked into that one vendor forever. >> So if you think about how the cloud industry structure is starting to layout, you knew we were going to have IAAS. >> Dan: Umhmm. >> SAS has been around for quite sometime. >> Dan: Right. >> The big question is what happens with that platform as a service. >> The developer world. >> Dan: Yeah. Some people think it's going to end up in the IAS element. >> Dan: Umhmm. Some people end up in the SAS. If it ends up in the IAS, you got the lock-in. Do you see a world going forward where developers have their own place, where they go and build and create software independent of either target but then add it to the various platforms. Is that a direction that you think this is all going to end up in? >> I do. Our view is that Heroku, which really invented this platform as a service concept or popularized it. You do, get push Heroku and magically your application's up. And then Cloud Foundry which came along and created a open source version of that. Those were two building blocks. But the Cloud Native essentially taking that scenario and saying, hey, that continuous integration, continuous deployment pipeline, that ability to deploy your software dozens of times per day, that's an absolute table ante for being a modern company. Not just a software company but arguably every company today needs to be doing software development like that. And then Cloud Native is a whole set of infrastructure around that to allow you to, not just have that environment in development but also to push it into production. >> So compare and contrast, based on your vision >> Dan: Umhmm. >> of how things are going to play out. A developer spends her time today doing this, and in three years, she's going to spend her time doing that. Kind of give us a sense of how >> Dan: Sure. >> you think it's going to play out. >> The simplest way to say it is that, Docker came along a few years ago, and was incredibly transformative technology for software development. It solved this really basic problem that, you hire a new employee and does it take her an entire day or entire week to get her environment together. Or can she just copy over the document container and be ready to go. And so I would argue it had the fastest uptake of any developer technology in history. But now when you have all those pieces running, okay, that's great in development, how do you get it in production? And my goal is that in a few years, hopefully much sooner, that those developers that are getting the container, they're getting the different pieces of microservices working. And then it's this tiny little YAML file that just says, here's the requirements for my application, here's what kind of redundancy it needs, what is backend databases, other sorts of things. And they're deploying it up. For most developers they can get out of that business of dev-ops. Of having to worry about all those issues. Your dev-ops team can be so much more efficient cuz Kubernetes and the related platform really enables that. >> I got to ask you, I just Tweeted cuz I had, make sure I captured it. I'm blown away by your success on the sponsorship participation. And usually it's a sign of opportunity. Because there's money making to be made, having the big vendors in there. But the growth of Kubernetes as you mentioned, all the success, we're well aware of that. But you got a lot going on. You're like got the tiger by the tail, your hair's blown back, you're running as hard as you can. Why are you guys successful? What is your gut? As executive director, you got to have the 20 mile stare but you also implement the here and now. >> Dan: Sure. >> How are you rationalizing the success? >> The most important point is, there's not some sort of magic formula, that CNCF has done or the Linux Foundation. And we're just so much better promoting or marketing it. At the end of the day, it really comes down to the developers behind Kubernetes. They've built a tool that tons and tons of people want to use. And that leverages 15 years of work that Google has done on containerization. Work that IBM and Docker and all of our other member companies, RedHat, have put together. And now, I think tiger by the tail is the right analogy. That we just happen to be, luckily, do have the technology and the constellation technology that a lot of folks want to do. The biggest thing we're trying to deal with is, some of the challenges around scaling. There's over 17 hundred authors. Individual developers contributed to Kubernetes in the last 12 months. Trying to figure out how can we get good reviews of all their codes, better documentation. >> There is a secret formula if you look at it. In away, relevance is one of them. >> Dan: Umhmm. >> Being relevant and being an awesome technology. But what I want get your thoughts in is, I looked at Kubernetes right out of the gate and said, hmm, will this be a MapReduced moment for Google. >> Dan: Yeah. >> And interesting enough, they didn't pull the same move. They didn't just let Cloud Air, walk away with or someone. >> Dan: Right, exactly. >> They made sure that if they preserved it. Google kind of let MapReduced >> Dan: Yeah, I think-- >> on the side of the road. >> Dan: No, no, I think this-- >> Cloud Air ran with it. >> Google had something that they replaced it with. I mean the -- >> SPAN is pretty damn good. >> And that's an interesting thing because in a world of strategy, across technology, and this is related to this, is that it used to be, you define a process, and then let's call it the end level process, and then you would go off and you make it obsolete because you had something that was more efficient, more effective. And then you license the old technology. And that way, the industry built capacity around the old technology and you had the new, more efficient technology that drove your business forward. And I think that, I'm not saying that's exactly, I'm not saying that Google did that, that's the tremendous >> Google knew. >> effect it will have. >> John: I have sources that tell me that. I investigated this story three years ago or maybe four, maybe three years ago. Google had conversations going up to the Eric Schmidt level, and Larry Page level, do we keep Kubernetes, do we open source it? And it went all the way to the top. And they almost wanted, they were afraid of MapReduced. Because MapReduced was a lost opportunity. Now they made it up but-- >> Now I would argue that there's a slightly subtler decision they had to make, where they have this internal system board, that is just tons of engineering and analysis and improvement has gone into it. They wrote Kubernetes as essentially next generation version of that. I think they kind of had four paths. Craig McLuckie was one of the key people behind that. Where they could have made it a proprietary service that if you're a customer of Google cloud, you get access to it. That's essentially what Amazon and Elastic Container Services today. Or they could have said, hey, we're going to open source it but we're still keep control of it. Essentially that's the path they went with the Go language. Where lots of people use it, lots of people contribute to it, but it's Google who decides at the end of the day, which direction it goes. Or they could have gone and created a Kubernetes Foundation. And if they'd gone to the Linux Foundation and said, we want to create a Kubernetes Foundation, they absolutely could have and that would have been a home for it. But when you look at all the complementary technologies that have come in, they would never have gone into a Kubernetes Foundation. So instead, they really chose the most open path of saying, no we want to have a Cloud Native Computing Foundation. Have Kubernetes be the anchor tenant for it. But then have a place that companies like Mesophere with Mesos and Docker with Docker Swarm and other partners can come in and agree on something. So today, we're really pleased to announce the container network interface, just got accepted as our 10th project. And that's used by those and also by Cloud Foundry. And then they can disagree on others, about the orchestration- >> So it's a liberating move, really, if you think about it. Because at the time this happened, there was a lot of land grab talk going on. >> Dan: Umhmm. >> Until Amazon was winning big the hockey stick was going up. >> Dan: Right. You saw the numbers, and financial performance. But there was a fear of lock-in. To your point. >> Dan: Right, exactly. >> Then Kubernetes provides a nice layer. And you guys as a group, are looking holistically and saying, choice and multi-cloud. Is that the vision? >> Definitely. But, I mean you can see, strategically why Google decided to do it. Because if you pick an open source platform, and say, hey, this is the best of breed approach. Now, you're actually willing to evaluate the cloud on what the prices are, the supplementary services, et cetera. Where before that, you might have just said, ah, AWS is the safe service, I'm going just go with that. >> But Kubernetes is an invasive technology. And I don't mean that in a bad way. (Dan laughs) >> When you decide to move with Kubernetes, you are foreclosing other options at your disposal. And so, I think what you're saying is that, Google wanted to ensure that it remained a consistent coherent thing. While at the same time, making it obvious to all those around them that also wanted to invest in it, that their investments were going to be safe and sound going forward. >> I think that's fair but on the other hand, I do want to say that very few companies have moved their entire business and all of their IT over to Kubernetes. >> Peter: Oh, I'm not saying that they would. >> We do recommend that they start with a stable service. >> Peter: But Meso and some of those other companies are now investing in Kubernetes as a platform. Or making a bet on Kubernetes, want to make sure that their bets are as good as their company is. >> Sure. But there are other orchestration plateforms still. So Kubernetes has plenty of competition. And our biggest competition of course is Enertia. Of folks not changing into anything. >> I got to ask you a question. So Leonard, our producer is just telling me, Kubernetes is boring per Craig McLuckie. So Craig said earlier in theCUBE today, Kubernetes needs to be boring. He said his biggest problem with Kubernetes is it's too exciting right now. >> Dan: That's great. Now what he means by that is, he's kind of making a play on words but his point is, it should be obstracted away. >> Dan: Yeah. In terms of Kubernetes. But that's a problem you have. It's too exciting. >> Dan: Umhmm. What's your reaction to his comment that Kubernetes needs to be boring. >> He and I did a little Google trends comparison of Kubernetes and TensorFlow, which is another open source project out of Google. TensorFlow is something like three or four acts. And artificial intelligence is just so much more interesting and exciting. And yeah, I certainly would love to see a situation. We have this metaphor for Linux, with the Linux Foundation. That we describe it as plumbing. Where it's so intrinsic to almost every piece of technology in existence. And like plumbing, you'll get very upset when if it stops working. And you'll know it and you'll complain. But there's a huge piece of what we're trying to do which is the infrastructure to make things work. >> Here's an idea. Marketing idea. Just call it AI for containers. >> Dan: That's good. >> It'll be the hottest thing on the planet. >> Dan, great to-- >> Peter: Probably be more be more exciting. >> Dan, great to see you. Congratulations on your success. >> Yeah. So I do want to just make a quick mention December sixth through eighth is CloudNativeCon and KubeCon. It's our biggest annual conference. We're looking to actually triple in size from Seattle to three thousand people or more. We have every expert coming in. Michelle Noorali and Kelsey Hightower are the co-chairs and are going to be speaking there. We would love to see a lot of you guys. >> John: In Austin. >> In Austin. >> We hope you'll be there. >> TheCUBE will be there. >> We'll definitely be there. >> Dan: As well to ah, >> We've been to the inaugural >> Dan: Exactly. >> show for KubeCon and Cloud Native conference. We'll defintely be there. December sixth through the eighth, in December, in Austin. Great time of the year to be in Texas. Congratulations on all your success. And as Kubernetes and nine other projects continue to get traction. Still exciting times. And as they say, we live in interesting times. (Dan laughs) This is theCUBE with more interesting, exciting, not boring stuff coming back from the inaugural event here at Cisco DevNet Create. I'm John Ferrier, Peter Burris. Stay with us.