(upbeat funky music) >> From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California. This is a Cube conversation. >> Hello everyone welcome to this special Cube conversation here in Palo Alto, California. I'm John Furrier. Co-host of the Cube. We got two special expert guests here talking multi-cloud, Jonathan King, Vice President of Strategy, Data Center, and Cloud for WWT. And Fabio Gori, Senior Director Cloud Solution and Marketing at Cisco. Multi-cloud is the topic. Guys are in the throes of it. Jonathan, you're in the front wave of a massive shift. Cisco powers networks for all companies these days, so guys multi-cloud is a reality. It's here. I want to get your thoughts on that, have a conversation. Thanks for joining us. >> Great, glad to be here. >> So multi-cloud is not really been debated. I mean people generally now step back and say multi-cloud is a reality. It's here, people have multiple clouds. Should only have data center on premise. But this idea of multi-cloud and hybrid cloud are somewhat getting mixed up, but multi-cloud is certainly more realistic in the reality sense than anything else. What's your take on multi-cloud, Jonathan? >> So I think we're at a point where there's a growing acceptance of multi-cloud as the architecture of the future. And when you arrive at that point it also means that multi-cloud is the architecture for today. Because if you see your competitors, you see new entrants in your space, moving in a rapid digital pace to meet their business needs, and you're not on the same kind of architecture. The same footing. Then you're going to be left behind. So, used to debate private cloud, hybrid cloud, multi-cloud. The way we see it is that we're in this multi-cloud world. And multi-cloud embraces an end-to-end imperative. How am I getting my apps and my development teams building those apps closer to my business and meeting my needs more rapidly? And then how am I connecting my entire business, my data, my network, all of it, to meet that needs. So multi-cloud architecture's really an imperative. It doesn't mean it's the only thing. There's other elements in terms of having a clear digital strategy. Thinking about how you're going to modernize your infrastructure. Of course, thinking about how you're transforming your security. All four of those elements really comprise a enterprise architecture. Multi-cloud being a core part of it. >> Fabio, Cisco, you guys have seen the waves of innovation, internet, connecting companies together through networking etc. Multi-cloud's a big part of your focus. Certainly at Cisco Live we covered that. What's the definition of multi-cloud now, because I've heard, it's been debunked, but I've heard people say, oh multi-cloud's an application workload moving across multiple clouds. Some say, no, it just means I have two clouds. So what is the definition? Baseline us here. >> So it's interesting because you can go Wikipedia and actually read the definition of multi-cloud, but what I'm really interested in is exactly what Jonathan was saying a moment ago. This is one of those rare cases where what you hear architecture is actually a technology architecture and the business architecture really coincide. People want to use innovation wherever it comes from. And because you can't allow yourself to be just restricted your choice, people want to have choice. Multiple choices. And that's why we're seeing adoption of multiple cloud services. Multiple SaaS solutioning for structure service solutions and the likes. So this is really what multi-cloud means. You're satisfying a business need. And while cloud computing was born, as we know, around 10 years ago, and it probably started with a kind of cost connotation, the speed and agility that you can get out of it now overwhelm the other parameters. And people are ready to spend anything it takes to become faster than their competitor, because that ultimately will really determines your destiny in the marketplace. >> And I want to drill into the tech side and have some specific pointed questions I'd love to ask you. Jonathan, first, talk about the relationship that WWT, World Wide Technology, has with Cisco, and your credibility in multi-cloud. You guys have a unique view First of all you work with Cisco, you guys partner together. A big part of your business. But you guys are in the middle of a lot of the action. Talk about the company. What kind of deals you guys are doing? What visibility do you guys have? Is it a landscape? Give an example of some of the work that you guys do, and then talk about the relationship with Cisco. >> Yeah so, the Cisco is a very strategic partner of ours. They have been for a long time. And we have the benefit of being at scale with Cisco. For repeatable waves of technology roll outs. In repeatable domains of technologies. So, customers come to us and look for our help as a trusted advisor to help them with their architectural decisions. And to help them often with knowledge gaps. So, architecture is a challenge. Especially when you're dealing with rapid change. So you have a pace of change externally. You cover this space. I mean every day, right? We were sitting here there's some kind of new thing going on. And, that change, I mean even companies who know what they're doing, and have deep benches of talent, have architectural challenges. But you take it to an enterprise or a government agency. How are they going to keep up? Well that's really our job and the value we bring is. We are constantly watching, talking to partners, talking to customers. And there's almost no one we're that as closely with as we are with Cisco, in terms of how we're watching trends, looking what's happening. And from a multi-cloud standpoint, in answer to your question there, it's a bit of a thought experiment. So if you define multi-cloud as really just, oh it's just between Amazon, Azure, Google. Multi-cloud is just multi public cloud. We do not see it that way, our clients don't see it that way. Our clients see it as a bigger domain. That multi-cloud includes how you're connecting to SaaS. How you're, there's multiple public clouds, a bigger definition there. But then it's also the edge, the cloud edge, the different edges that are out there are are being deployed in a cloud architecture. Your core data center has a private cloud. All of that we see as multi-cloud. And when you define it that way, you start to look at it. Companies are saying who do I turn to to help me with a multi-cloud architecture? Do I turn to someone that was born in the cloud. Who just really knows AWS. They know it really well. But that's what they know. Or a similar consulting company who's over here. The credibility that we have, we have those capabilities. But we also have depth and breadth, and history, and knowledge, and contracts and relationships. An incredible ecosystem. And important with Cisco, it's not just a one-way relationship. We have an ecosystem around us, collectively, that Cisco benefits because we have that ecosystem. And that's really what companies look for. It puts us in a very unique position because we see this AND world. It's not an OR world. And I think even the investments and movements that the public clouds have made recently. The hybrid offerings that they're bringing, and where Kubernetes is going to enable portability. All these things really are about a multi-cloud world, and we're just excited about where we are. >> It's interesting, there's the first wave, Amazon, I call it the Amazon wave because they really did take out the beach. And then public cloud. It kind of showed the way, the economics and the value creation piece. And you mentioned a few things that point at this next wave. That next big wave I see it is about people and technology. This holistic view around multiple architectures is a systems concept so it's not unproven. And Fabio we've seen this movie before in systems. Operating systems. You need networking. You got to connect things together. So this next wave of thinking about workloads and applications in context to an architecture see to the next narrative that people are starting to talk about. Versus. >> Absolutely >> Public cloud, because the people equation, who's going to run it, who's going to service it, who's the coders, what tools and APIs do I use. People behave in certain ways, and they like their favorite cloud, so it's a whole different ball game. You're thoughts. What's driving all this? >> I would say, look, we could talk about this forever. But I think we're seeing a pretty dramatic shift into an architectural model, right? I mean, if you remember a few years ago, we had networking specialists in the data center, storage specialists and compu-specialists, well guess what, people moved to full-stack type of expertise, right? And now we even have systems that are completely converged. Or hybrid converged. Well, we're seeing the same movie in the cloud. Where we're seeing the rise of cloud architectures, enterprise architectures, which become really determinable of the business. And these people, especially in the companies that are ahead of the game, in terms of cloud adoption and expertise. These guys are issuing the new guidance and guardrails for the entire organization in terms of what governance role you need to take, right? And the other groups actually execute this kind of strategy. This is, some people say this is finally SOA coming alive. The SOA, Service Oriented Architecture. That's exactly what it is without probably some of the kind of propriety underpinnings, or driven by certain market players in the past. This is a true, so if you think about microservices in containers, that's exactly what it is. And also we're seeing a lot of companies that are starting getting even organized by microservices. Which is the ultimate demonstration that the technology architecture and the business architecture are really converged. It's a fairly complicated concept, but in the end it's about really connecting the business to the underlying technology. >> And it's a shift that's happening in front of our eyes. And we're covering a lot of the news. Some notable news that we've been covering lately, the Department of Defense JEDI contract. That's in the public sector and military. CNCF, Amazon re:Invent. Google Nexus coming out. You're starting to see the formation where it's not about the cloud vendor or the cloud supplier anymore, as much as it is about the workload. So, there's been a debate of sole sourcing the cloud, that's certainly, we're seeing that on the DOD side 'cause it's more a military procurement thing. But that's not the right answer anymore, we're seeing that whole, spread the multi-vendor love around. It's not so much like it used to be. It's different now, there's new architecture. So, Jonathan, I want to go back to your multi-cloud architecture because I think the strategic question that I'd like to get to is. It might not be a bad thing to pick a cloud, a sole cloud for workload. But that's not meaning you're going to not use other clouds. This is a whole different thinking. So I can pick Amazon for this workload or pick Azure for that workload and Google for that workload. And holistically connect them all together. Seamlessly, this is not a bad thing. Your thoughts. >> There's a somewhat of a paradox when you talk about multi-cloud architecture and then you talk about moments in time where it makes architectural sense to pick one cloud, right? That particular decision there's issues around people and training and technology, and time to market, and API coverage. So there's all these things that you're trying to get a job done or a mission done and the amount of time that you have to achieve that job or that mission. What path am I going to choose? What engine am I going to put on the plane to get me there? Now that doesn't mean that that's the only engine you're going to put on your fleet. It just means that particular plane is going to have that kind of engine. And then the next time, you got another engine, you got a different kind of plane. You're thinking about how you're doing these things in waves and modules, and you're trying to build your aggregate velocity, 'cause really if you strip it all down. You know earlier we were talking about multi-cloud and people and talent, we're in a distributed computing land rush. And businesses of all sizes, government agencies, companies are trying to figure out how do we, you know. Electricity came along, now cloud has come along, right over the horizon cognification's coming along. How am I as an enterprise getting digitally ready, and getting on a footing to be able to do what I need to do in that domain? And really, it's about velocity and movement, so. Now that means that, that's why architecture is so important, because you have to make, you want a, people talk about one-way doors and two-way doors. So you want stop and think about, am I going through a one-way door or am I going through a two-way door? Meaning, do I have a way to come back? Is this a decision that I'm going to live with? If so how long? Is this a decision I can go through and I can come back? These kinds of approaches let you look across it. So an example would be networking. So networking is a foundation to every multi-cloud strategy. So you have to think, today my network in many enterprises is still a campus branch architecture. Well traffic patterns have changed. Even if you've just done nothing your customers have moved. Like all of a sudden, you know we talk to customers. We work with retailers, we work with all kinds of people, and it is like Global Climate Change. It's like global network change. The scale at which the clouds have arrived have changed the network patterns. So, if you start to look at it, you're saying, well what is a multi-cloud networking strategy? How do I need to rethink, well, guess what, the campus, my headquarters, is no longer the hub it used to be. The hub is now at the cloud edge, where all the other clouds are geographically aggregated. I need to move my network closer to that location. So we do a lot of work with Equinix in that context, right? So they have and have built a business around >> Sort of re-architecture's happening, and it's being driven by value creation, value shifting. >> Yes. >> Moving everything around. >> And that's where from a cloud networking standpoint, you look at that's a discussion where Cisco's so uniquely situated, because they are the networking company. They've been through the generations and they've been through different changes of generations. You know Wi-Fi, didn't used to be Wi-Fi. Now it is, right, it's here. And now we're in this next paradigm, where cloud networking didn't used to be here. Now it is, so. >> What's the new thought process for cloud networking. Because it makes a lot of sense, you have to connect clouds, obviously networking latency, SLAs around moving things around from point a to point b, storing stuff as well. Fabio, what's the equation look like? What's changed? Where do your customers go in this new architecture? >> Well, just building on top of what Jonathan was saying before, first of all the way we architect the networks, enterprise networks were networks in the past. Of course this is coming to an end. We need to rethink them, right? The fact that users now are going to use an enormous amount of software as a service applications that don't sit in your data center, means that constricting all the software in a single place doesn't make any more sense. But there's not just the traffic element. Think about all the intrusion detection and prevention, firewalling capabilities. Because you're moving away from that model, you need to start visualizing also those security functions and distributing them all the way to the edge of the network. In some cases, you need to have them in the cloud as well. We believe that the best way is a fully distributed model. Where you have a choice. Whether you keep it in your data center, or you put into the cloud, or even the to edge of the network. Again, you got to be ready for any kind of scenario. It's interesting how, you know, we're going to distributed computing as you said. But everything else is getting distributed as well. >> Oh yeah. >> Your entire infrastructure needs to follow your application and data. Wherever they go. And that's actually something unprecedented that we're seeing right now. >> And you brought up cloud architecture earlier, Jonathan. You mentioned it briefly. And this comes back to some of that this nuanced point around cloud architecture. The procurement standards aren't driving what you buy, its architectural workload dynamics are now telling procurement how we're buying. So the world shifting from, oh, I'm going to buy these servers. I'm going to buy this gear, the approved vendors. When you think about architecture the way you pointed it out, it's a completely different decision making process. So what's happening is old ways of procuring and buying and consuming technology are now shifting to. Still not going to stand up a cloud with a credit card if I'm doing dev ops, but now you start thinking holistically. The decision making on what that will look like has changed. This is probably impacting the cultural people side as well. What's your thoughts on this dynamic between cloud selection, security, architecture, and procurement? >> The example I normally give is, it's changing but it's also evolving, right? Because you're dealing with patterns that are there, and they're not going to go away, right? Money still has to be paid. Processes have to be followed and respected. The examples that I give would be, I've run large clouds in my past. Different platforms. And one thing you always watch out for when you're running a cloud is capacity. How much money do I have in the bank, so to speak, right? Am I going to have a run on the bank? So if you're running that cloud, either, and this is true if you're a service provider or you have your own private cloud. You're very concerned about you don't want to run out of capacity. Because bad things happen. Even unrecoverable bad things happen. Well in the public cloud, hey, I'm free and clear, I no longer have a capacity management team, I don't need to worry about them anymore. No, no, no no. 'Cause, you know, we just saw some press recently of a company that had a big overage. In cloud, what used to be capacity management is now cost optimization. 'Cause if you don't have it, you're going to have a similarly bad outcome. It's those kinds of things, right? How do you go, and it's those things, right? >> Once a benefit, now it's a challenge. So this could back down to the billion dollar question on the table in the industry is, how do I manage all this? I know how to connect it. Cisco could help me there. I understand multi-cloud, I totally buy into the architecture. I think this is clearly the direction. The management piece is kind of a fuzzy area. Can you guys help unpack cloud management? What are the table stakes? How should people be thinking about it? Because you mentioned security and intrusion detection. Not just moving packets around. We were talking before you came on about Kubernetes. There's all new sets of services moving up the stack, inside this dynamic. How do I manage it all? What single pane of glass is going to do it for me? >> Well, yeah, it's interesting you mentioned there. We've talked a lot about almost like an East West type shift you can think of where, multi-cloud is this thing that goes this way. Well, there's an equally crazy paradigm that's happening in a very fast period of time where it's almost like a North South North shift. Which is, Kubernetes, containers, service meshes. These architectures that are abstracting and lifting everything up. And in some ways, coming underneath as well, at the same time. Because now you've got a return of bare metal. You have these concepts architecturally where the VM is here to stay, it ain't going anywhere. It's still, the tooling around is insanely valuable. But you have now another benefit layer at a container orchestration layer, where there's portability, speed. There's all these benefits that come. And you just look at the stats of how fast containers are growing as a share. You're approaching a billion containers out there right now. And therein lies the challenge. Is that it'd be enough of a difficulty if you were saying I need to go from managing my private cloud, the stuff I have at a cloud edge, edge location, and the stuff I have in multiple public clouds. That's not all we're saying. We're saying also, you have a new tooling and a new set, and it's all software defined, and there's security, network, there's data. It just it's -- >> Complex. >> Exploding, it's complex. So the area that we're working on and want to hear more from Fabio is were innovating with Cisco on, we have great offerings and capabilities around cross cloud and VM orchestration. We're also looking now at that Kubernetes layer. >> Absolutely. >> What's real on that, the complexity he just pointed out is an opportunity at the same time because it just validates the shift that's going on. >> Absolutely. >> Management is an opportunity. >> Jonathan almost went through the entire set of needs. And what you take away from this is that fundamentally you have to instrument this incredibly distributed environment multiple sources and sourcing of this. In fact I love the analogy that you did with the planes, because there's a lot of kind of similarities to a supply chain management kind of business model, right? Where you want to supply different services. But a bottom line is that you're now moving away from what you have. It's a journey. And so this instrumentation, whether it's networking, security, analytics, management, these are actually the four pillars of our company multi-cloud strategy. They need to work across the old and the new. You can't afford to build another silo and maybe leveraging a bunch of open stores like-- >> So a data plane strategy is critical. >> It's, yeah, and it has to-- >> Across the hybrid and multi-cloud. >> East West, North South, and across the old and the new. It sounds very complex, but in reality the-- >> But you could build a taxonomy around this. And we've seen some research come out certainly from Wikiban and others. If it fits into the architecture that seems to be the question. So Jonathan, where does that fit in to the multi-cloud architecture in your opinion? >> So we, there's, you get into different terminology. We think about every company needs a cloud services strategy. So there's a taxonomy of services that we've developed. Where companies have to think about their application services strategy. Their operation strategy, governance strategy, foundation strategy. And this is, it's sort of coming what I teased upon earlier about moving from capacity planning when you own the cloud to cost optimization when you're running the cloud, right? It's the same, but different. And a lot of that difference gets down to services. I am going from a model of running my own product in an information technology modality to now I'm consuming services. So, I used to architect, and design, and build. Now I have to architect and really understand those differences. And so that's our cloud services strategy portfolio. And what we often see is we also have a dev ops portfolio. And we short-hand it, you could call it cloud native, right? Where we're looking at solutions around infrastructures code, around CICD pipelines, around cloud foundation capabilities that connect back-- >> Are they best practices or actually implementation? >> So both, we have content and workshops that we've developed, and then we have. Helping clients on projects very actively. And, you know, that's where it gets back to that architectural gap and knowledge gap. Is companies are looking for, hey, what's the pattern, what are the best practices. And then they don't expect, 'cause there's so many elements that change for a given company. And that change in the market, that there's a shelf-life to this. And it's like fresh produce. >> I love your example of engine in a plane. Do you have it for a single plane or fleet of planes? Does your company have two three big planes. It depends really, I mean, beauty's in the eye of the beholder, here, right? How you build and architect cloud, there's no boilerplate. It really is comes down to figuring it out. >> Where you are. >> So, with that, I want to go to my final point I want to dig into on the people side. So technology shift, business shift, check. You guys did a great job there. Great insight. Comes up every time I have to go to a Cube event and talk about cloud, is the cultural people skills gap problem. One, our company doesn't have the culture and/or we don't have the skill and we don't have the people to run it. So, automation certainly can help there but at the end of the day, if you don't have the people to do this. How do you solve the people problem? How are you guys helping companies? What is some of the state-of-the-art techniques? What's out there? >> So, I'll say a little. I appreciate Fabio's perspective, too. I think for us, really, you know, the old saying, culture eats strategy for breakfast. Culture's more important than ever. Because really, you're now moving to a mode where siloed organizations implementing siloed technology is enormously challenging. You have to move, and that's where dev ops and other patterns come in, where the people who build the app are doing the operations. Storage and networking and compute and apps and the business, they're all talking to each other. So culture really is foundational so that a culture where you're not making boundaries more rigid, you have to get to a point, and there's different ways to do this. I already recommend if people haven't already read the Phoenix Project. Hard to believe but it's an excellent book. And it's a fictional work about tech. It's like a novel about tech. >> I haven't read it yet, I'm going to get that. >> It's awesome. And it really gets you in the mindset of an organization going through change with the net. And it really, I mean I'm a geek, so I like it, but I've had other non-Geeks read it and they like it. But that's the key, it's a-- >> So you really got to set the table and invest in culture, making sure it's >> Culture's foundational. >> appropriately aligned. >> Culture's foundational. And then there's other best practices that always apply, right? So, what is your business vision? What is your mission? What are your values? What are the objectives you're trying to achieve in this space and time relationship? How are you prioritizing? These are all things because then if you have the right build around all that. Then what you drive to is an outcome at a certain point of time. And time's critical. We're in a market that's competing on time. So if you are not hyper aware of time. And what you're doing in a set point of time. And the trade-offs in making changes if your assumptions are wrong. These are all things that are foundational. >> Fabio, I want to get your thoughts. Chuck Robbins talks about solving the tech problems just because a tech company can solve tech problems all day long. He's also behind the people skillset. I've heard him publicly talk about it. But you guys at Cisco have actually had a great transformation with the DevNet Create community, where you harness the culture, and everyone's engaged around cloud, cloud native, and you have a kind of cloud DNA developing out of the core network. Your thoughts and Cisco's view on culture and people solving the problem. Because we need an army of cloud architects out there. There's not enough people. >> So that's true, but we carry an enormous responsibility in the marketplace as a vendor. We have to make things simple, right? There's still, you know, most of the IT infrastructure's still very complex to program and automate and the likes. That's why we're putting an enormous amount of RnD efforts, right? DevNet is like the tip of the spear. It's showing fundamentally our very loyal CCIEs and everybody else there's a better way to do things, right? Where you can actually really automate things together. You can get access to the APIs and simplify your life. You can simplify your life and the life of the business 'cause you can get faster. So making things simple, automating them, I don't know, if you think about, for instance, our cloud management orchestration philosophy. With the cloud center, we have a patent where we can actually model the application at once. And deploying it to wherever you want. We can deploy that application on-prem, on a VM, or like viralize kind of infrastructure. You can put it into AWS, you can put it into Azure, whatever you want. Kubernetes is kind of target on-prem. That is simplicity, right? We have to drive simplicity. And for me, it's all about automation, and sometimes you hear things like, in 10-base architecture and infrastructure all of that means simplicity and security. And that's the complexity of the whole thing for us is trading off, of course some of the complexity, richness, and flexibility. But it's got to be simple. If we don't make it simple, we are actually failing our goals. And that's where we're putting an enormous amount of RnD effort. >> And Jonathan, you guys at WWT have a unique aperture, view of the marketplace. You see a lot of the landscape, knowing what you guys do. Every vendor says they it, but you're really customer focused, so you're in you're digging in with the customers, it's a real value added service. I got to ask you the question with multi-cloud it sounds easy just to connect them all, right? It's like a subnet plug it in the coax, put a hub there. Put some adapter cards on a PC. The old days of connecting things. It just metaphorically seems easy What's the opportunity for connecting multi-cloud? So, as people realize when they wake up tomorrow or today. And they go, hey, you know what, I got lot of multi-cloud around. How do I connect them together? What's the opportunity, what's the opportunity for Cisco. 'Cause that seems to be the first order of business. I can connect things together in the architecture. And then what happens next? What's the opportunity to connect these clouds. >> The opportunity is gigantic. If you look at just the growth of the public clouds themselves. The CAGRs that they're representing. They're growing the rate their growing on very big numbers already. And it often gets overlooked, but Gartner will tell you also that the co-location, that cloud edge space, is also growing at a good CAGR. So you have just more and more going there. All of that needs to be connected. All of it needs to be protected. So networking is not just networking. Networking is security. A critical pillar of any security practice is really understanding and knowing in-depth your network. The introspection of it all. And at the same time, we're moving from a physical world. And we've moved and virtualized, but now the virtualization of the network now with SD-WAN coming, you're moving to a programmable model, where everything needs to be programmed. So it's not humans. So it's almost like every arc. Just in terms of the amount of data, the amount of traffic, that's all growing. Now, it's not just humans, it's machines doing things. And then also it's not just physical connections. It's software. So it's a three dimensional plot and it's growing on every axis. >> It just not in every device, it's software as a device. Software device connections. Service connections. What's Cisco's opportunity? How positioned are they that can do this? Because there's a lot of conversation around edge. Now you just mentioned a few of them, 5G. What's Cisco's opportunity in all this? >> Well I mean I think Cisco's shown recently and then through generations that they have a unique ability to lead and move with the market. And they're demonstrating that now. So, I think the importance of where the network sits, and not just the network, but again there's an adjacency of security. There's an adjacency of orchestration and management. Their global presence, their global operation. The sophistication of their channel business. All those things put them in a really strong place, we feel. >> You mentioned SD-WAN in a previous comment around talking about edge and stuff. If you think about Office 365, when companies roll that out. That basically takes SD-WAN from a little niche industry to all the internet. SD-WAN is basically the internet now. Your old grandfather's SD-WAN was over here, now everything's SD-WAN. That's basically the internet. So talk about the SD-WAN impact in this because with edge, that's super important too. Your thoughts. >> Well, it was back when we were talking about that traffic patterns are changing. So you're moving to no longer really this campus branch closed network. There's still an important need for that, of course. But now you're doing your business where your customers are. On their phone, in their car. Which means you're having to traverse and work and scale in a very different way. It's part where you have to put the network. And then, it's how you have to run and connect the network in your retail store or in these other things. Part of it is doing what we've always done in a better way. And then probably every day, more of it is about doing things in a new way that you couldn't do in the past to achieve a new business objective. >> Well Jonathan, thanks for coming on theCUBE conversation. I'd love to have you back on. Great insight. We could also do remotes. So when you go back to the home branch in St. Louis we can bring you in. >> Tells you Silicon Valley and St. Louis, man. Silicon angle, Silicon Valley, St. Louis. >> Let's do it. And I'll say congratulations on your success with Cisco. Fabio, it's been great to see you. Final word, Fabio, just bring it all together. Multi-cloud, it's here, kind of that's the reality. >> Yeah, I want to go back really to where we started the conversation, right? We can't forget the multicloud is still like a mean to and end. The end is, companies want to become and need to become innovative and fast. And that's actually why all this interest in multicloud. It's a business engine. That's why we're all so excited. Because it's a business issue. It's not so much a brand new technology that probably in two years is going to be out of fashion. My personal prediction, we're going to be talking about multicloud for several years. On the contrary of other trends. >> And just to real quickly bring in what we talked about before we came on camera. This is a CEO issue of companies, not CIO. >> Absolutely. >> This is showing the culture and the urgency, really, in all this. >> That's right. >> Absolutely. Guys, thanks so much for coming on. Great insight. Multi-cloud conversation, fantastic. Jonathan King, Vice President of Strategy, Data Center, and Cloud for WWT. Also Fabio Gori, friend of theCUBE, Senior Director Cloud Solution and Marketing at Cisco. Thanks for coming on. This theCUBE conversation. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (upbeat funky music)

>> Live from San José, in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE! Covering DataWorks Summit 2018. Brought to you by Hortonworks. (electro music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of DataWorks here in sunny San José, California. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, James Kobielus. We're joined by John Kreisa. He is the VP of marketing here at Hortonworks. Thanks so much for coming on the show. >> Thank you for having me. >> We've enjoyed watching you on the main stage, it's been a lot of fun. >> Thank you, it's been great. It's been great general sessions, some great talks. Talking about the technology, we've heard from some customers, some third parties, and most recently from Kevin Slavin from The Shed which is really amazing. >> So I really want to get into this event. You have 2,100 attendees from 23 different countries, 32 different industries. >> Yep. This started as a small, >> That's right. tiny little thing! >> Didn't Yahoo start it in 2008? >> It did, yeah. >> You changed names a few year ago, but it's still the same event, looming larger and larger. >> Yeah! >> It's been great, it's gone international as you've said. It's actually the 17th total event that we've done. >> Yeah. >> If you count the ones we've done in Europe and Asia. It's a global community around data, so it's no surprise. The growth has been phenomenal, the energy is great, the innovations that the community is talking about, the ecosystem is talking about, is really great. It just continues to evolve as an event, it continues to bring new ideas and share those ideas. >> What are you hearing from customers? What are they buzzing about? Every morning on the main stage, you do different polls that say, "how much are you using machine learning? What portion of your data are you moving to the cloud?" What are you learning? >> So it's interesting because we've done similar polls in our show in Berlin, and the results are very similar. We did the cloud poll pole and there's a lot of buzz around cloud. What we're hearing is there's a lot of companies that are thinking about, or are somewhere along their cloud journey. It's exactly what their overall plans are, and there's a lot of news about maybe cloud will eat everything, but if you look at the pole results, something like 75% of the attendees said they have cloud in their plans. Only about 12% said they're going to move everything to the cloud, so a lot of hybrid with cloud. It's how to figure out which work loads to run where, how to think about that strategy in terms of where to deploy the data, where to deploy the work loads and what that should look like and that's one of the main things that we're hearing and talking a lot about. >> We've been seeing that Wikiban and our recent update to the recent market forecast showed that public cloud will dominate increasingly in the coming decade, but hybrid cloud will be a long transition period for many or most enterprises who are still firmly rooted in on-premises employment, so forth and so on. Clearly, the bulk of your customers, both of your custom employments are on premise. >> They are. >> So you're working from a good starting point which means you've got what, 1,400 customers? >> That's right, thereabouts. >> Predominantly on premises, but many of them here at this show want to sustain their investment in a vendor that provides them with that flexibility as they decide they want to use Google or Microsoft or AWS or IBM for a particular workload that their existing investment to Hortonworks doesn't prevent them from facilitating. It moves that data and those workloads. >> That's right. The fact that we want to help them do that, a lot of our customers have, I'll call it a multi-cloud strategy. They want to be able to work with an Amazon or a Google or any of the other vendors in the space equally well and have the ability to move workloads around and that's one of the things that we can help them with. >> One of the things you also did yesterday on the main stage, was you talked about this conference in the greater context of the world and what's going on right now. This is happening against the backdrop of the World Cup, and you said that this is really emblematic of data because this is a game, a tournament that generates tons of data. >> A tremendous amount of data. >> It's showing how data can launch new business models, disrupt old ones. Where do you think we're at right now? For someone who's been in this industry for a long time, just lay the scene. >> I think we're still very much at the beginning. Even though the conference has been around for awhile, the technology has been. It's emerging so fast and just evolving so fast that we're still at the beginning of all the transformations. I've been listening to the customer presentations here and all of them are at some point along the journey. Many are really still starting. Even in some of the polls that we had today talked about the fact that they're very much at the beginning of their journey with things like streaming or some of the A.I. machine learning technologies. They're at various stages, so I believe we're really at the beginning of the transformation that we'll see. >> That reminds me of another detail of your product portfolio or your architecture streaming and edge deployments are also in the future for many of your customers who still primarily do analytics on data at rest. You made an investment in a number of technologies NiFi from streaming. There's something called MiNiFi that has been discussed here at this show as an enabler for streaming all the way out to edge devices. What I'm getting at is that's indicative of Arun Murthy, one of your co-founders, has made- it was a very good discussion for us analysts and also here at the show. That is one of many investments you're making is to prepare for a future that will set workloads that will be more predominant in the coming decade. One of the new things I've heard this week that I'd not heard in terms of emphasis from you guys is more of an emphasis on data warehousing as an important use case for HDP in your portfolios, specifically with HIVE. The HIVE 3.0 now in- HDP3.0. >> Yes. >> With the enhancements to HIVE to support more real time and low latency, but also there's ACID capabilities there. I'm hearing something- what you guys are doing is consistent with one of your competitors, Cloudera. They're going deeper into data warehousing too because they recognize they've got to got there like you do to be able to absorb more of your customers' workloads. I think that's important that you guys are making that investment. You're not just big data, you're all data and all data applications. Potentially, if your customers want to go there and engage you. >> Yes. >> I think that was a significant, subtle emphasis that me as an analyst noticed. >> Thank you. There were so many enhancements in 3.0 that were brought from the community that it was hard to talk about everything in depth, but you're right. The enhancements to HIVE in terms of performance have really enabled it to take on a greater set of workloads and inner activity that we know that our customers want. The advantage being that you have a common data layer in the back end and you can run all this different work. It might be data warehousing, high speed query workloads, but you can do it on that same data with Spark and data-science related workloads. Again, it's that common pool backend of the data lake and having that ability to do it with common security and governance. It's one of the benefits our customers are telling us they really appreciate. >> One of the things we've also heard this morning was talking about data analytics in terms of brand value and brand protection importantly. Fedex, exactly. Talking about, the speaker said, we've all seen these apology commercials. What do you think- is it damage control? What is the customer motivation here? >> Well a company can have billions of dollars of market cap wiped out by breeches in security, and we've seen it. This is not theoretical, these are actual occurrences that we've seen. Really, they're trying to protect the brand and the business and continue to be viable. They can get knocked back so far that it can take years to recover from the impact. They're looking at the security aspects of it, the governance of their data, the regulations of GVPR. These things you've mentioned have real financial impact on the businesses, and I think it's brand and the actual operations and finances of the businesses that can be impacted negatively. >> When you're thinking about Hortonworks's marketing messages going forward, how do you want to be described now, and then how do you want customers to think of you five or 10 years from now? >> I want them to think of us as a partner to help us with their data journey, on all aspects of their data journey, whether they're collecting data from the EDGE, you mentioned NiFi and things like that. Bringing that data back, processing it in motion, as well as processing it in rest, regardless of where that data lands. On premise, in the cloud, somewhere in between, the hybrid, multi-cloud strategy. We really want to be thought of as their partner in their data journey. That's really what we're doing. >> Even going forward, one of the things you were talking about earlier is the company's sort of saying, "we want to be boring. We want to help you do all the stuff-" >> There's a lot of money in boring. >> There's a lot of money, right! Exactly! As you said, a partner in their data journey. Is it "we'll do anything and everything"? Are you going to do niche stuff? >> That's a good question. Not everything. We are focused on the data layer. The movement of data, the process and storage, and truly the analytic applications that can be built on top of the platform. Right now we've stuck to our strategy. It's been very consistent since the beginning of the company in terms of taking these open source technologies, making them enterprise viable, developing an eco-system around it and fostering a community around it. That's been our strategy since before the company even started. We want to continue to do that and we will continue to do that. There's so much innovation happening in the community that we quickly bring that into the products and make sure that's available in a trusted, enterprise-tested platform. That's really one of the things we see our customers- over and over again they select us because we bring innovation to them quickly, in a safe and consumable way. >> Before we came on camera, I was telling Rebecca that Hortonworks has done a sensational job of continuing to align your product roadmaps with those of your leading partners. IBM, AWS, Microsoft. In many ways, your primary partners are not them, but the entire open source community. 26 open source projects in which Hortonworks represents and incorporated in your product portfolio in which you are a primary player and committer. You're a primary ingester of innovation from all the communities in which you operate. >> We do. >> That is your core business model. >> That's right. We both foster the innovation and we help drive the information ourselves with our engineers and architects. You're absolutely right, Jim. It's the ability to get that innovation, which is happening so fast in the community, into the product and companies need to innovate. Things are happening so fast. Moore's Law was mentioned multiple times on the main stage, you know, and how it's impacting different parts of the organization. It's not just the technology, but business models are evolving quickly. We heard a little bit about Trumble, and if you've seen Tim Leonard's talk that he gave around what they're doing in terms of logistics and the ability to go all the way out to the farmer and impact what's happening at the farm and tracking things down to the level of a tomato or an egg all the way back and just understand that. It's evolving business models. It's not just the tech but the evolution of business models. Rob talked about it yesterday. I think those are some of the things that are kind of key. >> Let me stay on that point really quick. Industrial internet like precision agriculture and everything it relates to, is increasingly relying on visual analysis, parts and eggs and whatever it might be. That is convolutional neural networks, that is A.I., it has to be trained, and it has to be trained increasingly in the cloud where the data lives. The data lives in H.D.P, clusters and whatnot. In many ways, no matter where the world goes in terms of industrial IoT, there will be massive cluster of HTFS and object storage driving it and also embedded A.I. models that have to follow a specific DevOps life cycle. You guys have a strong orientation in your portfolio towards that degree of real-time streaming, as it were, of tasks that go through the entire life cycle. From the preparing the data, to modeling, to training, to deploying it out, to Google or IBM or wherever else they want to go. So I'm thinking that you guys are in a good position for that as well. >> Yeah. >> I just wanted to ask you finally, what is the takeaway? We're talking about the attendees, talking about the community that you're cultivating here, theme, ideas, innovation, insight. What do you hope an attendee leaves with? >> I hope that the attendee leaves educated, understanding the technology and the impacts that it can have so that they will go back and change their business and continue to drive their data projects. The whole intent is really, and we even changed the format of the conference for more educational opportunities. For me, I want attendees to- a satisfied attendee would be one that learned about the things they came to learn so that they could go back to achieve the goals that they have when they get back. Whether it's business transformation, technology transformation, some combination of the two. To me, that's what I hope that everyone is taking away and that they want to come back next year when we're in Washington, D.C. and- >> My stomping ground. >> His hometown. >> Easy trip for you. They'll probably send you out here- (laughs) >> Yeah, that's right. >> Well John, it's always fun talking to you. Thank you so much. >> Thank you very much. >> We will have more from theCUBE's live coverage of DataWorks right after this. I'm Rebecca Knight for James Kobielus. (upbeat electro music)

>> Announcer: Live from Nice, France, it's theCUBE. Covering .NEXT conference 2017 Europe. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> And we're back, I'm Stu Miniman and you're watching theCUBE, happy to welcome to the program, first time guest Christian Pedersen, who's the CEO and founder of Zentura, a service provider based in Denmark. Christian, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you. >> Alright, so tell us a little bit about what led you to create the company, a little bit about your background, and then we'll get into it. >> My background is from Citrix, I'm a Citrix consultant, back from the ages of the wind frame and all the old stuff, and in 2006 I founded Zentura with a focus on Citrix consulting services and all the stuff around Citrix, and quite fast, we saw the trend in the market to become a service provider so we started up with some of our on prem customers and moved them into a traditional hosting virtualization platform. >> So did you start as hosting? Were there certain Citrix services that you were offering to your customers? Walk us through that kind of progression. >> Our product is something we call Business Cloud. It's a brand of the Citrix platform, and it's a full service platform for our customers. So everything is around Citrix. The connectivity to our platform is Citrix based, yeah. >> Okay, and how big, do you have multiple data centers? How many customers do you have? Give us some of the speeds and feeds. >> We have two data centers and we have roughly 3,000 people connecting into our site on some customers. We're mainly focusing on legal and accounting customers, with special demands for 24/7, yeah. >> Okay, and all of your customers are in Denmark, correct? >> All of our customers are in Denmark. Some of them have branch offices in the U.K., and in Germany, and one in Russia. >> Okay, so why don't you bring us up to speed as to, when did you start looking at Nutanix, what lead you kind of down that path? I'd like to understand a little bit about kind of, the problem statement, the criteria, what lead to that? >> The beginning, as we were Citrix house, then of course we started with SAN server that made really good sense for us because it was a Citrix product. And quite fast, it became really complex. And, the development of our platform was quite fragmented over the years. So we really needed to, I've seen Nutanix at Synergy from the beginning, and I saw on the keynote where Mark Templeton roll in a block of Nutanix. So just doing VDI and I said okay this is VDI and what really was, a huge game-changer for me was when Nutanix introduced AHV because I really liked many of the concepts about putting the whole stack into the cloth so you don't have, you don't rely on external management. You don't rely on that many components. You don't have sequel as a back end. We were evaluating a lot of stuff, a lot of products, how we could simplify our current environment. Because, we had huge issues. >> Yeah so you're Citrix client, were you running Zen before, what was your environment before? >> Our existing environment was a mix. We had eight clusters, some of them on Zen, different versions, because the upgrade part was a pain. It required a lot of downtime, and we only security patched on critical patches. We didn't do major release upgrades because we had so many issues with it. And some years before we introduced Nutanix. We switched to, half of our stack to VMware, because that solved some of our issues. They have a good way of handling and migrating data inside their own platform. But quite fast, the cost became an issue for us because the cost, as a service provider, of course you just pay in bids and you pay per usage but still the cost was just going sky-high. >> Okay, so it was AHV, was that the catalyst to get you to Nutanix then? >> Christian: Exactly. >> It wasn't kind of a hyper-converged, or it definitely wasn't VDI. >> I'm quite old in this field, and I really like the idea of having a say on all things and I was not easy to convince that this was a good idea. It's like in the past when you know, when people are switching from regular computers to a SAN, everybody says, "Oh I want my data on my computer." >> Yeah, trust me, I worked on a lot of the early SAN stuff, rolled that out. >> Exactly. >> And Wikiban, we actually created the term Server SAN which was all of the functionality and things that you loved in a SAN, we're just going to do it on the server, is really what that is. >> Christian: Exactly. >> As opposed to, Nutanix started out, "Oh there's no SAN." And I'm like, No, no no, you're going to scare off all the people that used it. That was also my biggest concern, it really was. But, when Nutanix started with the VMware we did a business case on it and it wasn't feasible because we still have the VMware and licensing costs and also now we have the Nutanix licensing cost and it was not easy to create the business case because the customers, they don't care what we put underneath because they only look on cost. And, if I add something to my stack, then I only add some cost, and maybe I can do something a bit more efficient but that's it. >> Okay so have you swept the floor now, EHV everywhere? Or you know, what's up? >> Yeah, we did a full turn for replacing everything, all legacy. We did, inside our business we did a survey with all our employees, and said okay, instead of doing just a business case bit by bit, you know how you do normally, to compare licensing costs and all that. We said, okay we want everything in this business case, not only products. So all the consultants went out with the, the main issues were all the complexity because it was not easy, we had people on network, we had people on storage, so we always have to ask another one if you want to provision something and the sales guys need to go to the tech guys okay do we have enough storage for this? And what about the IOS, and yeah. There was a lot of issues with this and also working at night on all the change windows and doing all the storage, Tetris moving workloads, because customers were unsatisfied on this platform, we can move it to the new platform. We had so many issues with this. So we actually ended up just, we discussed internally and said, okay if we're going to do this then we are going to do it 100%. It's not just putting Nutanix inside and move something. So internally in the board we discussed and said, okay it's now or never, because this is going to be our window of opportunity to grow and expand. So we discussed and we agreed on a total replace. Everything, network, everything. So we switched all our existing infrastructure and migrated all the legacy workloads onto Nutanix in a four to six month time frame. And we didn't have extract of that time so it was quite manually. >> Yeah, so obviously you're here so it went okay. Take us through, what did you learn, you know, four to six months is not a short period of time, so, you know, looking back, what lessons learned, what would you recommend to your peers to make things even better if, what would you change if you had to go back? >> What I would change that I didn't do it before, because it would have made sense. Actually we had quite new equipment, we just bought a new SAN one year before that. It wasn't even old, that was an issue. But the cost of the existing, even though we had bought it, the cost was getting too high. We were using too many hours on maintaining this and-- >> The best time to do this would have been a year ago, but the second best time is to do it now. Don't push it off for another year. >> Exactly, exactly. And what, yeah, we should have done it before. But I don't think Nutanix was mature for this at the moment. But now, one year before this, I was actually convinced. >> So, AHV, there's, they think they're approaching, about a third of customers are using AHV now. >> Christian: Yeah. >> You said it's mature now, you're happy with it. What more do you want to see out of AHV, where would you like to see them continue to add features and maturity? >> Yeah, as a service provider, of course AHV has some limitations compared to all of the other stacks because the multi-tendency is a big requirement for a service provider. But we're taking it kind of from another approach to it. Because they have all the AVIs, so we can just do it ourselves. We have all the AVIs exposed, right now we're working on a billing model because in our business case it was not only IT, it was also the management and all the accounting and all the other things. If we can optimize those, the whole business case would look even better. So we're working on a model where the system automatically bills the customers and everything sends status reports to customers. So before they get an invoice they know if they want to to change something. Because our solution right now is fully managed. So it's fully managed from our side, because we have some issues with the multi-tendency stuff. >> And what management stack are you using today? Is it in-house or, you know, what are you using? >> What? >> Management stack are you using? >> In-house, yeah. >> Yeah, pretty typical for a service provider. >> It is, yeah. >> Have you looked at some of the management tools from Nutanix or? >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm paying a lot of attention, I'm calm. >> Yeah. >> Because it really makes really, really, good sense for us. >> When will, what does it need for you to be able to consider it even further? >> I need to play with it, I need to try it out. I've only seen some sessions. I also saw it last year and I've been following it closely. But from a slide to getting in production, it takes some time and I really need to play with it. It looks really amazing. >> Most service providers spend the time kind of building their stacks though, going from, I've got it, to that is challenging. >> But now we're really moving and we can see how much time we use on a day-to-day basis. I think we cut the time to one-tenth of what we would do before. We had a lot of things-- >> Stu: You're saying for managing? >> Yeah for managing infrastructure and doing changes because if you have a really fragmented solution then you have a lot of people you need to involve because, he knows best about this cluster, and all the differences in this cluster. And that was also one of the biggest pains. And also the Nutanix strategy, this is, as I said to all the employees, this is the final migration we're going to do, ever. Because now, it's rip and replace. And now we can see in the past, we used the senior consultants for expanding clusters and adding new clusters and doing network, doing a lot of stuff. Right now we moved the, down in the chain, so it's the regular support guy. He can put in a note right now and he can do the expand of the cluster. We do it in a regular service window. Now it's not an extraordinary service window, nothing. >> Alright so, Christian, you're so happy with the Nutanix? You're not only a customer, you're also a channel partner? >> Exactly. >> What lead to that? What services were you already offering for there and what lead to you look to move down that path? >> We saw a lot of synergies because we could also, we could extend the enterprises, and use cases. We had Nutanix and if we could sell Nutanix to some of our customers, maybe we could do some replication and DR for our customers as a service. Now Nutanix, of course, is moving to what's the A type, but that's our idea and we already have some customers signed up for disaster recovery as a service, on our AHV platform, and that made really good sense. And also, we did a lot of work in certifying all our employees, and why don't we, we have spare time now, why don't we use our knowledge and sell this product? It makes really good sense. And what I really also like about Nutanix, is there's not a one-size-fit-all. Because everybody needs, somebody can go public and somebody go private, and we have a lot of enterprise Citrix customers, because we have a small part of our company also through Citrix consulting, because that's our background. So we have a lot of potential customers there. >> Yeah, so I've watched over the last five years, there was a real tug back and forth between VMware and their service providers. They tried to, it was, vCloud Air, you're going to be a great partner. Oh wait, we're going to do it ourselves. Wait, we're going to do partner program. Oh wait, now Amazon and a couple of big ones are there. How is Nutanix as a partner for service? You mentioned Xi, is that something they'll partner with you on or is that something they're competitive on? >> And how do you look at that? >> Definitely. >> The main difference between, if you see all the other cloud providers and you see VMware and the other providers, this is one stack, it's still the same. You're not going to have to create a lot of stuff to adopt this. It can be quite easy for us. I see it as a possibility for us to of course sell this. We can be a reseller, we can just have one account and we can provision the customers' VMs in the Cloud. It sets us in a much better position than we were before because if we team up with AHSA or some of the other public cloud providers we are not in control anymore. It's easy to deploy and it's easy to work with if you know how to do it. But it's not that easy. Yeah. >> Well Christian Pedersen, really appreciate you sharing with us everything that you're doing at Zentura and your customers. Love to hear the inside at Denmark and what's happening there. I'm Stu Miniman, we'll be back with lots more coverage here from Nutanix .Next 2017 in Nice, France. You're watching theCUBE. (upbeat electronic music) (engine roaring)

>> Announcer: Live from Manhattan, it's theCUBE covering AWS Summit New York City 2017. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Welcome back live to Midtown Manhattan, along with Stu Miniman, I am John Walls. We're here on theCUBE and we're wrapping up our coverage here at AWS Summit. Again, kind of tough to get a feeling for just how many folks were here. But some were in that seven, eight, $9,000 range and most of them are still here I think, out on the show floor here behind us. Good keynotes this morning. Good programming throughout the day as well and then really good buzz here on the show floor. So, good day I think, for AWS Stu, and we've talked about it, it is kind of remarkable to see the number of people who turned out for a regional show. >> Yeah John, you know I've been to some shows in the Javits Center where people wander in, they get some swag, they look for a free beer and a t-shirt and then that's kind of their... These people are, you know, kind of diggin' in. I know there's a bunch of sessions been going on. The pavilion here has had all these little breakout sessions. There was one on, you know, VMware and VMware and AWS and it was, you know, not only the seats, which usually it was like oh come on in, you know, come get a prize and things like that. >> John: Right, right. >> There was five rows of people standing pressed in and asking questions like, "How do I set up "the networking on this, how does this work?" Things like this, so it's like a mini AWS re:Invent, so their big show, one we've done theCUBE at a number of years, I've been there a number of years. I commented on our intro that this is larger than the first Amazon re:Invent that I went to like four years ago. >> How about that, in that short of period of time? >> Yeah and that's one of the things about Amazon and public Cloud in general and all of these technologies, the growth and the speed of change is just amazing. It used to be we talked from a software standpoint, it was like okay, I'm tied to that Intel release of every 18 months that I'm going to click out, then it was like okay, we kind of go to a yearly cycle. Now it was more like well not only is a lot of software released, you know, continuous integration and continuous deployment CICD, which sometimes it's every six weeks, sometimes it's daily, but Amazon's releasing new features every day. We talked in the intro, oh there were three major releases and we had the guy I'm talking about, the machine learning stuff and he's like oh you mean the three announcements that we had in machine learning? And we're like oh, we only heard about one of those. Wait, you had a couple others underneath there? Oh, let's talk about the F1 compute instance and the FPGAs. There's always so much in Amazon and when you go into any environment in the little boxes that they put in there and you start peeling the onion, it's impressive. >> It is. >> And there's just depth and customers are interested in it and people are using it. You know, I was used to so much in my career where something gets announced and a year later it's like hello, is anybody using this? As opposed to at this show, a bunch of the announcements, I already talked to a bunch of people that have been in private beta, they've been testing this out, they're excited about it and because it's just so easy to get on all of these new features. >> Right, and I mean, we've seen it here, we've heard from many people here from a lot of different walks of life. You mentioned some of the past shows, AWS Public Sector. I was at that not too long ago in Washington, D.C. and you see a company that has its units very focused and very driven and doing very well and the right relationships. Buzzword, serverless, right? We heard it a lot today. Serverless applications, serverless computing. From more than one source, we heard it from several folks and so obviously this is not just a popular piece of nomenclature for the day, this is a trend, a theme that's going to be evolving and maturing over the next year or two. >> Yeah I mean everybody for the last couple years they've kind of been looking at it with their head sideways. I'm not sure that I understand it. We talked to two companies today, it was IOPipe and A Cloud Guru that their company, their IT infrastructure was all built on serverless, and they both got funding recently, so this isn't just oh yeah, some developer does some cool stuff on the side, microservices, buzz buzz, things like that. We talked to FICO is using serverless for their admin functions, certain areas they're not ready to roll it out across the board, governance compliance, things like that, I need to understand it. It is still very early, but that being said, there's a lot of usage in it. Last year it was oh, if you want to develop for the Alexa platform, the Amazon Echo type thing, that uses serverless, so we're seeing lots and lots of cases. That really is a new way of architecting the way to roll out really microservices driven applications and when we talk about the big challenge of our time, it's distributed architectures and how do I have new applications? We talked to a number of companies moving from the old way of doing my application to building new application, that's the long hole in the 10. This is not something that happens overnight, but I can start playing with it in a much smaller form factor and do it for pennies not years and millions of dollars so there is really serverless has really in many ways eclipsed kind of the container's discussion for the hot buzz in the industry. Kubernetes fits into that whole picture, but not just serverless in general, but AWS Lambda is the leader of the pack out there and you know, yet another reason why Amazon just going strong, their revenue still doing well, keeps adding to what they're doing and you don't hear many people griping when you walk around the show floor as to what they wish they had. It's a very positive experience. >> And you hear criticisms saying, "They only had 42% growth year to year." It's not what it used to be. But 42 as you know, most people would gladly be in that position. What about your thoughts about the maturation of the Cloud? You mentioned transformative and things are evolving and growing, where do you put it now? Is this second phase, next phase, late phase? Where are we in terms of what's happening and what AWS is making happen? >> So a couple years ago we know that Cloud is here to stay. There's still the joke a friend of friend of mine in the keynote. 20,000 people registered for this event and it was like well, I guess this Cloud thing might have legs, so we are still early in the overall wave of this. I've been in a number of conferences this year that we've done theCUBE on. You talk about the infrastructure companies and companies that have built on virtualization. They said, "We went through a decade "of tremendous growth with virtualization." Virtualization is still very important. Amazon builds their infrastructure not on VMWare, but they leverage virtualization technologies, but the next 10 years will be this huge wave of really that going up the uptake of the S curve so we're past really the classic crossing the chasm. We're in the early majority going to mid majority of people using it and there's just no shortage of new use cases that people can use it for. We've talked to lots of companies that start up and say, "I'm just leveraging Cloud because it's easy." THere's VCs that look at that as how to get involved and as I've just mentioned before, there's companies now that are building themselves on serverless so this is even kind of the next piece that follows these waves we are early in Cloud if you look at kind of overall ham of IT, public Cloud is still a very small piece. At Wikiban we've been talking for the last I think two years about what we really the multi Cloud environment. There's true private Cloud and there's public Cloud and how do I get that operational model that I can scale, I can build really a distributed architecture? I shift more to an operational expense rather than a capital expense, so it's flexibility, it's agility, it's speed, and it's very interesting, exciting times. There's no more exciting time to be in tech than today, maybe tomorrow, because we know the only thing constant is that the pace of change keeps increasing. >> It does increase and two big drivers of that, we heard again today, artificial intelligence, machine learning. How would you rate or how would you characterize the impotence that they're providing in terms of pushing the envelope? >> Absolutely there was some good announcements today, I don't know that there's any today that you'd say, "I'm going to look back five years from now and be like, 'Wow, I was in New York City when that was announced.'" >> John: Right, but just in general? >> But in general, let me say one of the things that I didn't hear today, I was was little bit disappointed, I mentioned it in the open, we talked to a couple of the partners here, you know the Kubernetes option. Adrian Kovrov got up on stage. He had written a blog post there was an announcement last week, no mention of where Kubernetes is going to fit in here. Definitely they're committed to it, they're making developments, but maybe something will come out in beta soon. I would expect by the time we get to the re:Invent show in November that we will have more clarity here. I was hoping to hear that more and that was something that didn't come out of Amazon, but they're embracing it. Customers are asking for it, developers, there's a ground swell on that, so they're involved with it. Lambda and serverless absolutely. Amazon is at the vanguard, they're pushing things forward. Machine learning and IoT, Amazon is at the table. It is still very early, they're driving a lot of things forward. Yeah, you know, you get enough, it's like come on, there's no BitCoin discussed today, why is that? So some of the other vendors there, but Amazon is in all the appropriate conversations. There's not any wide gaps that you'd say customers like hate these. Amazon's not in this base and I expect them to and therefore I'm going to choose another platform provider. That being said, it's not a winner-take-all, it is a multi Cloud world, most of these environments, we talked about even if I do serverless, if I architect them a certain way I can move them and make changes, Kubernetes the same way. So Amazon, one of the things that they pride themselves on is they need to keep proving to their customers every month that they are the ones that they fuse on because otherwise it is relatively easy to make a change, but they're the big dog, they got the leadership position, and it's always impressive to watch them. >> It is and you speak of impressive. re:Invent, is just what, two and a half months away, three months away, we'll be out there as well. Huge show, probably one of the largest shows by far that we attend and looking forward to that and seeing you down the road. Always a pleasure to be with you. >> Thanks so much. >> And great job as always. Stu Miniman does an outstanding job providing analysis for Wikiban, so on behalf of Stu and all the crew here at theCUBE, we thank you for joining us here at the AWS Summit in Midtown. We've been live at the Javits Center. Have a good week and we'll see you down the road here on theCUBE. (light electronic music)