(upbeat music) >> We're back with Charley Dublin. He's the Vice President of Product Management at Acquia. Great to see you, Charley welcome to theCUBE. >> Nice to meet you Dave. >> Acquia, tell us about the company. >> Sure, so Acquia is the largest and best provider of Drupal hosting capabilities. We rank number two in the digital experience platform space, just behind Adobe. Very strong business growing well and innovating every day. >> Drupal open source, super deep high quality content management system. And more experience, you call it an experience platform. >> An experience platform, open, flexible. We want our customers to have choice the ability to solve their problems how they want leveraging the power of the open source community. >> What were the big challenges? Just describe your, kind of the business drivers. We're going to talk about StormForge but the things that you were facing some of the challenges that's kind of led you to StormForge. >> Sure, so our objective first is to provide the best experience with Drupal. So that entails lots of capabilities around ease of use for Drupal itself. But that has to run on a world class platform. It has to be the most performance. It has to be the most secure. It needs to be flexible to enable customers to run Drupal however they want to run Drupal. And so that involves the ability to support thousands of different kinds of modules that come out of the community. We want our customers to have choice with Drupal and to be able to support those choices on our platform. >> So optionality is key. Sometimes that creates other challenges. Like you've got one of everything. How do you deal with that challenge? >> That's a great question. Every strength is a form of weakness. And so our objective is really first to provide that choice but to do it in a cost efficient way. So we try to provide reference architectures for customers, opinionation for our customers to standardize take out some of the complexity that they might have if everything were a snowflake. But our objective is really to support their needs and err on the side of that flexibility. >> So you guys had to go through a major replatforming effort around containers and Kubernetes can you talk about that and what role StormForge played? >> Sure, so tied to the last point, our objective is to provide customers the highest performance, most secure platform. The entire industry of course is moving to Kubernetes and leveraging containers. We are a large consumer of AWS Services and are undergoing a major replatforming away from Legacy AWS towards Kubernetes and containers. And so that major replatforming effort is intending to enable customers to run applications how they want to and the power of Kubernetes and containers is to support that. And so we looked at StormForge as a way for us to right size resource capacity to support our customer's applications. >> I love it, AWS is now Legacy. But Andy Jassy one time said that if they had to redo Amazon they'd it in Lambda using serverless and so, it's been around a long time now. Okay so what were the outcomes that you were seeking? Was it, better management, cost reduction and how'd that go? >> Our customers run a wide range of applications. We support customers leveraging Drupal in every industry. Globally we do business in 30 different countries. And so what you have is a very wide range of applications and consumer and consumption models. And so we felt that leveraging StormForge would put us in a position where we'd be able to right size resource to those different kinds of applications. Essentially let the platform align to how customers wanted to operate their applications. And so StormForge's capability in conjunction with Kubernetes and containers really puts us in a position where customers are able to get the performance that they want, and when they need it on demand. A lot of the auto scaling capabilities that you get from Kubernetes and containers supports that. And so it really enables customers to run their applications how they want to functionally, as well as from a performance perspective. >> So this move toward containers and microservices sort of modern application development coincides with a modern platform like StormForge. And so there are, I'm sure there are alternatives out there, why StormForge? Maybe you could explain a little bit more about why, from your perspective what it does and why you chose them. >> So we leverage AWS in many respects in terms of the underlying platform, but we are a very strong DIY for how that platform supports Drupal applications. We view our expertise as being the best of Drupal. And so we felt like for us to true really maximize Kubernetes and containers and the power of those underlying technologies. On the one hand allows us to automate more and do more for customers. On the other side of it, it puts a tremendous burden on the level of expertise in order to do that well for every customer every day at scale. And so that at scale part of that was the challenge. And so we leverage StormForge to enable us to rightsize applications for performance, provide us cost benefits, allocate what you need when you need it for our customers. And that at scale piece is a critical part. We could do elements of it internally. We tried to do elements of that internally, but as you start getting to scale from, a few apps to hundreds of apps to certainly across our fleet of tens of thousands of applications, you really need something that leverages machine learning. You really need a technology that's integrated well within AWS and StormForge provided that solution. >> Make sure I got this right. So it sounds like you sort of from a skill standpoint transitioned or applied your skills from turning knobs if you will, to automation and scale. >> Correct. >> And what was that like? Was the team leaning into that, loving it? Was it a, a challenging thing for you guys to get there? >> That's a good question. The benefit in the way that StormForge applies it. So they leverage machine learning to enable us to make better decisions. So we still have the control elements, but we have much greater insight into what that would mean ahead of time before customers would be affected. So we still have the knobs we need, but we're able to do it at scale. And then from the automation point, it allows us to focus our deep expertise on making Drupal and the core hosting platform capabilities awesome. Sort of the stuff and resource allocation resource consumption. That's an enabler we can outsource that to StormForge >> This is not batch it's, you're basically doing this in sort of near realtime Optimize Live, is the capability, maybe you can describe what it is. >> So Optimize Live is new, we're in testing with that. We've done extensive testing with StormForge on the core call it decision making logic that allows for the right sizing of consumption and resources for our customer application. So that has already been tested. So the core engine's been tested. Optimize Live allows us to do that in real time to make policy decisions across our fleet on what's the right trade off between performance cost, other parameters. Again, it informs our decision making and our management of our platform. That would be very, very difficult otherwise. Without StormForge we'd have to do massive data aggregation. We'd have to have machine learning and additional infrastructure to manage to derive this information, and, and, and. And that is not our core business. We don't want to be doing that. We want insights to manage our platform to enable customers and StormForge for provides that. >> So it's kind of human in the loop thing. Hey, here's what like our recommendation or here's some options that you might want to, here's a path that you want to go down, but it's not taking that action for you necessarily. You don't want that. You want to make sure that the experts are have a hand in it still, is that correct? >> Correct, you still want the experts to have a hand in it but you don't want them to have a hand in it on each individual app. You need that, that machine learning capability that insight that allows you to do that at scale. >> So if you had to step back and think about your relationship with StormForge what was the business impact of bringing them in? >> First, from a time to market perspective we're able to get to market with a higher performing more cost effective solution earlier. So there's that benefit. Second benefit to the earlier point is that we're able to make resource allocation decisions focused on where our core competency is, not into the guts of Kubernetes containers and the like. Third is that the machine learning talent that StormForge brings to the table is world class. I've run machine learning teams, data science teams and would put them in the top 1% of any team that I've worked with in terms of their expertise. The logic and decision making and insights is outstanding. So we can get to the best decision, the optimal decision much more quickly. And then when you accompany that with the newer product in Optimize Live with that automation component you mentioned, all the better. So we're able to make decisions quicker, get it implemented in our platform and realize the benefits. What customers get from that is much better performance of their applications. More real time, higher, able to scale more dynamically. What we get is resource efficiency and our network and platform efficiency. We're not over allocating a capacity that costs us more money than we should. We're under allocating capacity that could have a lower performance solution for our customers. >> So that puts money in your pocket and your customers are happier. So there are higher renewal rates, less churn, high air prices over time as you add more capabilities. >> That's correct. >> What's it like, new application approach, Kubernetes containers, fine. Okay I need a modern platform but it's a relatively new company StormForge. What's it like working with them? >> Their talent level is world class. I wasn't familiar with them when I joined Acquia came to know them and been very impressed. There's many other providers in the market that will speak to some similar capabilities and will make many claims. But from our assessment our view is that they're the right partner for us, they're the right size, they're flexible, excellent team. They've evolved their technology roadmap very quickly. They deliver on their promises and commits a very good team to work with. So I've been very impressed for such an early stage company to deliver and to support our business so rapidly. So I think that's a strength. And then I think again the quality that people that's been manifested in the product itself, it's a high quality product. I think it's unique to the market. >> So Napoleon Hill famous writer, thinker, he wrote "Think and Grow Rich." If you haven't read it, check it out. One of his concepts is this a lever, small lever can move a big rock. It can be very powerful. Do you see StormForge as having that kind of effect on your business that change on your business? >> I do. Like I said, I think the engagement with them has proven, and this isn't, debatable based on the results that we've had with them. We ran that team through the ringer to validate the technology. Again, we'd heard lots of promises from other companies. Ran that team through the ringer with extensive testing across many customers, large and small, many use cases, to really stress test their capabilities. And they came out well ahead of any metric we put forth even well ahead of claims that they had coming into the engagement. They exceeded that. And so that's why I'm here. Why I'm an advocate. Why I think they're an outstanding company with a tremendous amount of potential. >> Thinking about, what can you tell us about where you want to take the company and the partnership with StormForge. >> I think the main next step is for us to engage with StormForge to drive automation drive decisioning, as we expand and move more and more customers over to our new platform. We're going to uncover use cases, different challenges as we go. So I think the, it's a learning process for both both sides, but I think the it's been successful so far and has a lot potential. >> Sounds like you had a great business and a great new partnership. So thanks so much for coming on theCUBE, appreciate it. >> Thank you very much, appreciate your time. >> My pleasure. And thank you for watching theCUBE, you're global leader in enterprise tech coverage. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> We're back with Charley Dublin. He's the Vice President of Product Management at Acquia. Great to see you, Charley welcome to theCUBE. >> Nice to meet you Dave. >> Acquia, tell us about the company. >> Sure, so Acquia is the largest and best provider of Drupal hosting capabilities. We rank number two in the digital experience platform space, just behind Adobe. Very strong business growing well and innovating every day. >> Drupal open source, super deep high quality content management system. And more experience, you call it an experience platform. >> An experience platform, open, flexible. We want our customers to have choice the ability to solve their problems how they want leveraging the power of the open source community. >> What were the big challenges? Just describe your, kind of the business drivers. We're going to talk about StormForge but the things that you were facing some of the challenges that's kind of led you to StormForge. >> Sure, so our objective first is to provide the best experience with Drupal. So that entails lots of capabilities around ease of use for Drupal itself. But that has to run on a world class platform. It has to be the most performance. It has to be the most secure. It needs to be flexible to enable customers to run Drupal however they want to run Drupal. And so that involves the ability to support thousands of different kinds of modules that come out of the community. We want our customers to have choice with Drupal and to be able to support those choices on our platform. >> So optionality is key. Sometimes that creates other challenges. Like you've got one of everything. How do you deal with that challenge? >> That's a great question. Every strength is a form of weakness. And so our objective is really first to provide that choice but to do it in a cost efficient way. So we try to provide reference architectures for customers, opinionation for our customers to standardize take out some of the complexity that they might have if everything were a snowflake. But our objective is really to support their needs and err on the side of that flexibility. >> So you guys had to go through a major replatforming effort around containers and Kubernetes can you talk about that and what role StormForge played? >> Sure, so tied to the last point, our objective is to provide customers the highest performance, most secure platform. The entire industry of course is moving to Kubernetes and leveraging containers. We are a large consumer of AWS Services and are undergoing a major replatforming away from Legacy AWS towards Kubernetes and containers. And so that major replatforming effort is intending to enable customers to run applications how they want to and the power of Kubernetes and containers is to support that. And so we looked at StormForge as a way for us to right size resource capacity to support our customer's applications. >> I love it, AWS is now Legacy. But Andy Jassy one time said that if they had to redo Amazon they'd it in Lambda using serverless and so, it's been around a long time now. Okay so what were the outcomes that you were seeking? Was it, better management, cost reduction and how'd that go? >> Our customers run a wide range of applications. We support customers leveraging Drupal in every industry. Globally we do business in 30 different countries. And so what you have is a very wide range of applications and consumer and consumption models. And so we felt that leveraging StormForge would put us in a position where we'd be able to right size resource to those different kinds of applications. Essentially let the platform align to how customers wanted to operate their applications. And so StormForge's capability in conjunction with Kubernetes and containers really puts us in a position where customers are able to get the performance that they want, and when they need it on demand. A lot of the auto scaling capabilities that you get from Kubernetes and containers supports that. And so it really enables customers to run their applications how they want to functionally, as well as from a performance perspective. >> So this move toward containers and microservices sort of modern application development coincides with a modern platform like StormForge. And so there are, I'm sure there are alternatives out there, why StormForge? Maybe you could explain a little bit more about why, from your perspective what it does and why you chose them. >> So we leverage AWS in many respects in terms of the underlying platform, but we are a very strong DIY for how that platform supports Drupal applications. We view our expertise as being the best of Drupal. And so we felt like for us to true really maximize Kubernetes and containers and the power of those underlying technologies. On the one hand allows us to automate more and do more for customers. On the other side of it, it puts a tremendous burden on the level of expertise in order to do that well for every customer every day at scale. And so that at scale part of that was the challenge. And so we leverage StormForge to enable us to rightsize applications for performance, provide us cost benefits, allocate what you need when you need it for our customers. And that at scale piece is a critical part. We could do elements of it internally. We tried to do elements of that internally, but as you start getting to scale from, a few apps to hundreds of apps to certainly across our fleet of tens of thousands of applications, you really need something that leverages machine learning. You really need a technology that's integrated well within AWS and StormForge provided that solution. >> Make sure I got this right. So it sounds like you sort of from a skill standpoint transitioned or applied your skills from turning knobs if you will, to automation and scale. >> Correct. >> And what was that like? Was the team leaning into that, loving it? Was it a, a challenging thing for you guys to get there? >> That's a good question. The benefit in the way that StormForge applies it. So they leverage machine learning to enable us to make better decisions. So we still have the control elements, but we have much greater insight into what that would mean ahead of time before customers would be affected. So we still have the knobs we need, but we're able to do it at scale. And then from the automation point, it allows us to focus our deep expertise on making Drupal and the core hosting platform capabilities awesome. Sort of the stuff and resource allocation resource consumption. That's an enabler we can outsource that to StormForge >> This is not batch it's, you're basically doing this in sort of near realtime Optimize Live, is the capability, maybe you can describe what it is. >> So Optimize Live is new, we're in testing with that. We've done extensive testing with StormForge on the core call it decision making logic that allows for the right sizing of consumption and resources for our customer application. So that has already been tested. So the core engine's been tested. Optimize Live allows us to do that in real time to make policy decisions across our fleet on what's the right trade off between performance cost, other parameters. Again, it informs our decision making and our management of our platform. That would be very, very difficult otherwise. Without StormForge we'd have to do massive data aggregation. We'd have to have machine learning and additional infrastructure to manage to derive this information, and, and, and. And that is not our core business. We don't want to be doing that. We want insights to manage our platform to enable customers and StormForge for provides that. >> So it's kind of human in the loop thing. Hey, here's what like our recommendation or here's some options that you might want to, here's a path that you want to go down, but it's not taking that action for you necessarily. You don't want that. You want to make sure that the experts are have a hand in it still, is that correct? >> Correct, you still want the experts to have a hand in it but you don't want them to have a hand in it on each individual app. You need that, that machine learning capability that insight that allows you to do that at scale. >> So if you had to step back and think about your relationship with StormForge what was the business impact of bringing them in? >> First, from a time to market perspective we're able to get to market with a higher performing more cost effective solution earlier. So there's that benefit. Second benefit to the earlier point is that we're able to make resource allocation decisions focused on where our core competency is, not into the guts of Kubernetes containers and the like. Third is that the machine learning talent that StormForge brings to the table is world class. I've run machine learning teams, data science teams and would put them in the top 1% of any team that I've worked with in terms of their expertise. The logic and decision making and insights is outstanding. So we can get to the best decision, the optimal decision much more quickly. And then when you accompany that with the newer product in Optimize Live with that automation component you mentioned, all the better. So we're able to make decisions quicker, get it implemented in our platform and realize the benefits. What customers get from that is much better performance of their applications. More real time, higher, able to scale more dynamically. What we get is resource efficiency and our network and platform efficiency. We're not over allocating a capacity that costs us more money than we should. We're under allocating capacity that could have a lower performance solution for our customers. >> So that puts money in your pocket and your customers are happier. So there are higher renewal rates, less churn, high air prices over time as you add more capabilities. >> That's correct. >> What's it like, new application approach, Kubernetes containers, fine. Okay I need a modern platform but it's a relatively new company StormForge. What's it like working with them? >> Their talent level is world class. I wasn't familiar with them when I joined Acquia came to know them and been very impressed. There's many other providers in the market that will speak to some similar capabilities and will make many claims. But from our assessment our view is that they're the right partner for us, they're the right size, they're flexible, excellent team. They've evolved their technology roadmap very quickly. They deliver on their promises and commits a very good team to work with. So I've been very impressed for such an early stage company to deliver and to support our business so rapidly. So I think that's a strength. And then I think again the quality that people that's been manifested in the product itself, it's a high quality product. I think it's unique to the market. >> So Napoleon Hill famous writer, thinker, he wrote "Think and Grow Rich." If you haven't read it, check it out. One of his concepts is this a lever, small lever can move a big rock. It can be very powerful. Do you see StormForge as having that kind of effect on your business that change on your business? >> I do. Like I said, I think the engagement with them has proven, and this isn't, debatable based on the results that we've had with them. We ran that team through the ringer to validate the technology. Again, we'd heard lots of promises from other companies. Ran that team through the ringer with extensive testing across many customers, large and small, many use cases, to really stress test their capabilities. And they came out well ahead of any metric we put forth even well ahead of claims that they had coming into the engagement. They exceeded that. And so that's why I'm here. Why I'm an advocate. Why I think they're an outstanding company with a tremendous amount of potential. >> Thinking about, what can you tell us about where you want to take the company and the partnership with StormForge. >> I think the main next step is for us to engage with StormForge to drive automation drive decisioning, as we expand and move more and more customers over to our new platform. We're going to uncover use cases, different challenges as we go. So I think the, it's a learning process for both both sides, but I think the it's been successful so far and has a lot potential. >> Sounds like you had a great business and a great new partnership. So thanks so much for coming on theCUBE, appreciate it. >> Thank you very much, appreciate your time. >> My pleasure. And thank you for watching theCUBE, you're global leader in enterprise tech coverage. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Dublin, Ireland. It's theCUBE, covering Hadoop Summit Europe 2016. Brought to you by Hortonworks. Now your host, John Furrier and Dave Vellante. >> Okay, welcome back here, we are here live in Dublin, Ireland, it's theCUBE SiliconANGLEs flagship program where we go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise, I'm John Furrier, my cohost Dave Vellante, our next guest is Emer Coleman who's with Disruption Limited, Open Data Governance Board in Ireland and Transport API, a growing startup built self-sustainable, growing business, open data, love that keynote here at Hadoop Summit, very compelling discussion around digital goods, digital future. Emer, welcome to theCUBE. >> It's great to be here. >> So what was your keynote? Let's just quickly talk about what you talked about, and then we can get in some awesome conversation. >> Sure. So the topic yesterday was we need to talk about techno ethics. So basically, over the last couple of months, I've been doing quite a lot of research on ethics and technology, and many people have different interpretations of that, but yesterday I said it's basically about three things. It's about people, it's about privacy, and it's about profits. So it's asking questions about how do we look at holistic technology development that moves away from a pure technocratic play and looks at the deep societal impacts that technology has. >> One of the things that we're super excited about and passionate about is this new era of openness going to a whole another level. Obviously, open source tier one software development environment, cloud computing allows for instant access to resources, almost limitless at this point, as you can project it forward with Moore's Law and whatnot. But the notion that digital assets are not just content, it's data, it's people, it's the things you mentioned about, create a whole new operating environment or user experience, user expectations with mobile phones and Internet of Things and Transport API which you have, if it moves, you capture it, and you're providing value there. So a whole new economy is developing around digital capital. Share your thoughts around this, because this is an area that you're passionate about, you've just done work here, what's your thoughts on this new digital economy, digital capital, digital asset opportunity? >> I think there's huge excitement about the digital economy, isn't there? And I think one of the things I'm concerned about is that that excitement will lead us to the same place that we are now, where we're not really thinking through what are the equitable distribution in that economy, because it seems to me that the spoils are going to a very tiny elite at the tops. So if you look at Instagram, 13 employees when it was purchased by Facebook for a billion dollars, but that's all our stuff, so I'm not getting any shares in the billion, those 13 people are. That's fantastic that you can build a business, build it to that stage and sell, but you have to think about two things, really: what are we looking at in terms of sustainable businesses into the future that create ethical products, and also the demands from citizens to get some value for their data back, because we're becoming shadow employees, we're shadow employees of Google, so when we email, we're not just corresponding, we're creating value for that company. >> And Facebook is a great example. >> And Facebook, and the thing is, when we were at the beginning of that digital journey, it was quite naive. So we were very seduced by free, and we thought, "This is great," and so we're happy with the service. And then the next stage of that, we realize what if we're not paying for the service, we're the product? >> John: Yeah. >> But we were too embedded in the platform to extricate ourselves. But now, I think, when we look at the future of work and great uncertainty that people are facing, when their labor's not going to be required to the same degree, are we going to slavishly keep producing capital and value for companies like Google, and ask for nothing more than the service in return? I don't think so. >> And certainly, the future will be impacted, and one of the things we see now in our business of online media and online open data, is that the data's very valuable. We see that, I'll say data is the new capital, new oil, whatever phrases of the day is used, and the brand marketers are the first ones to react to it, 'cause they're very data driven. Who are you, how do I sell stuff to you? And so what we're seeing is, brand marketers are saying, "Hey, I'm going to money to try to reach out to people, "and I'm going to activate that base and connect with, "engage with them on Facebook or other platform. "I'm going to add value to your Facebook or Google platform, "but yet I'm parasitic to your platform for the data. "Why just don't I get it directly?" So again, you're starting to see that thinking where I don't want to be a parasite or parasitic to a network that the value's coming from. The users have not yet gotten there, and you're teasing that out. What's your thoughts there, progression, where we're at, have people realized this? Have you seen any movement in the industry around this topic? >> No, I think there's a silence around... Technology companies want to get all the data they can. They're not going to really declare as much as they should, because it bends their service model a bit. Also, the data is emergent. Zuckerberg didn't start Facebook as something that was going to be a utility for a billion people, he started it as a social network for a university. And what grew out of that, we learned as we went along. So I'm thinking, now that we have that experience, we know that happens, so let's start the thinking now. And also, this notion of just taking data because you can, almost speculatively getting data at the point of source, without even knowing what you want it for but thinking, "I'm going to monetize this in the end." Jaron Lanier in his book Who Owns The Future talks about micro licensing back content. And I think that's what we need to do. We start, at the very beginning, we need to start baking in two things: privacy by design and different business models where it's not a winner takes all. It's a dialog between the user and the service, and that's iterated together. >> This idea that it's not a zero sum game is very important, and I want to go back to your Instagram and Facebook example. At its peak, I think Eastman Kodak had hundreds of thousands of employees, maybe four or five hundred, 450,000 employees, huge. Facebook has many many more photos, but maybe a few thousand employees? Wow, so all the jobs are gone, but at the same time, we don't want to be protecting the past from the future, so how do you square that circle? >> Correct, but I think what we know is that the rise of robotics and software is going to eat jobs, and basically, there's going to be a hollowing out of the middle class. You know, for sure, whether it's medicine, journalism, retail, exactly. >> Dave: It's not future, it's now. (laughs) >> Exactly. So we maybe come into a point where large swaths of people don't have work. Now, what do you do in a world where your labor is no longer required? Think about the public policy implications of that. Do we say you either fit in this economy or you die? Are we going to look at ideas which they are looking at in Europe, which is like a universal wage? And all of these things are a challenge to government, because they're going to have a citizenry who are not included in this brave new world. So some public policy thinking has to go into what happens when our kids can't get jobs. When the jobs that used to be done by people like us are done by machines. I'm not against the movement of technology, what I'm saying is there are deep societal implications that need some thinking, because if we get to a point where we suddenly realize, if all of these people who are unemployed and can't get work, this isn't a future we envisioned where robots would take all the crap jobs and we would go off to do wonderful things, like how are we going to bring the bacon home? >> It seems like in a digital world that the gap is creativity to combine technologies and knowledge. I find that it's scary when you talk about maybe micromanaging wages and things like that, education is the answer, but that's... How do you just transfer that knowledge? That's sort of the discussion that we're having in the United States anyway. >> I think some of the issue is that the technology is so, we're kind of seduced by simplicity. So we don't see the complexity underneath, and that's the ultimate aim of a technology, is to make something so simple, that complexity is masked. That's what the iPhone did wonderfully. But that's actually how society is looking now. So we're seduced by this simplicity, we're not seeing the complexity underneath, and that complexity would be about what do we do in a world where our labor is no longer required? >> And one of the things that's interesting about the hollowing of the middle class is the assumption is there's no replacements, so one of the things that could be counter argued is that, okay, as the digital natives, my daughter, she's a freshman in high school, my youngest son's eighth grade, they're natives now, so they're going to commit. So what is the replacement capital and value for companies that can be sustained in the new economy versus the decay and the darwinism of the old? So the digital darwinism aspect's interesting, that's one dilemma. The other one is business models, and I want to get your thoughts on this 'cause this is something we were teasing out with this whole value extraction and company platform issue. A company like Twitter. Highly valuable company, it's a global network of people tweeting and sharing, but yet is under constant pressure from Wall Street and investors that they basically suck. And they don't, they're good, people love Twitter, so they're being forced to behave differently against their mission because their profit motive doesn't really match maybe something like Facebook, so therefore they're instantly devalued, yet the future of someone connecting on Twitter is significantly high. That being said, I want to get your thoughts on that and your advice to Twitter management, given the fact it is a global network. What should they do? >> It's the same old capitalism, just it's digital, it's a digital company, it's a digital asset. It's the same approach, right? Twitter has been a wonderful thing. I've been a Twitter user for years. How amazing, it's played a role in the Arab Spring, all sorts of things. So they're really good, but I think you need as a company, so for example, in our company, in Transport API, we're not really looking to build to this massive IPO, we're trying to build a sustainable company in a traditional way using digital. So I think if you let yourself be seduced by the idea of phenomenal IPO, you kind of take your eye off the ball. >> Or in case this, in case you got IPOed, now you're under pressure to produce-- >> Emer: Absolutely, yeah. >> Which changes your behavior. But in Twitter's management defense, they see the value of their product. Now, they got there by accident and everyone loves it, but now they're not taking the bait to try to craft a short term solution to essentially what is already a valuable product, but not on the books. >> Yes, and also I think where the danger is, we know that their generation shifts across channel. So teenagers probably look at Facebook, I think one of them said, like an awkward family dinner they can't quite leave. But for next gen, they're just not going to go there, 'cause that's where your grandmother is. So the same is true of Twitter and Snapchat, these platforms come and go. It's an interesting phenomenon then to see Wall Street putting that much money into something which is essentially quite ephemeral. I'm not saying that Twitter won't be around for years, it may be, but that's the thing about digital, isn't it? Something else comes in and it's well, that becomes the platform of choice. >> Well, it's interesting, right? Everybody, us included, we criticize the... Michael Dell calls it the 90 day shock clock. But it's actually worked out pretty well, I mean, economically, for the United States companies. Maybe it doesn't in the future. What are your thoughts on that, particularly from a European perspective? Where you're reporting maybe twice a year, there's not as much pressure, but yet from a technology industry standpoint, companies outside the Silicon Valley in particular seem to be less competitive, why? >> For example, in our company, in Transport API, we've got some pretty heavyweight clients, we have a wonderful angel investor who has given us two rounds of investment. And it isn't that kind of avaricious absolutely built this super price. And that's allowed us to build from starting off with 2, now to a team of 10, and we're just about coming into break even, so it's doable. But I think it's a philosophy. We didn't want necessarily to build something huge, although we want to go global, but it was let's do this in a sustainable way with reasonable wages, and we've all put our own soul and money into it, but it's a different cultural proposition, I think. >> Well, the valuations always drive the markets. It's interesting too, to your point about things come and go channels, kind of reminds me, Dave and I used to joke about social networks like nightclubs, they're hot and then it's just too crowded and nobody goes there, as Yogi Bear would say. And then they shift and they go out of business, some don't open with fanfare, no one goes 'cause it's got different context. You have a contextual challenge in the world now. Technology can change things, so I want to ask you about identity 'cause there was a great article posted by the founder of the company called Secret which is one of these anonymous apps like Yik Yak and whatnot, and he shut it down. And he wrote a post, kind of a postmortem, saying, "These things come and go, they don't work, "they're not sustainable because there's no identity." So the role of identity in a social global virtual world, virtual being not just virtual reality, is interesting. You live in a world, and your company, Transport API, provides data which enables stuff and the role of identity. So anonymous versus identity, thoughts there, and that impact to the future of work? If you know who you're dealing with, and if they're present, these are concepts that are now important, presence, identity, attention. >> And that's the interesting thing, isn't it? Who controls that identity? Mark Zuckerberg said, "You only have one identity," which is what he said when he set up Facebook. You think, really? No, that's what a young person thinks. When we're older, we know. >> He also said that young people are smarter than older people. >> Yeah, right, okay. (John laughs) He could be right there, he could be right there, but we all have different identities in different parts of our lives. Who we are here, the Hadoop summit is different from what we're at home to when we're with friends. So identity is a multifaceted thing. But also, who gets to determine your identity? So I have 16 years of my search life and Google. Now, who am I in that server, compared to who I am? I am the sum total of my searches. But I'm not just the sum total of my searches, am I? Or even that contextualized, so I'll give you an example. A number of years ago I was searching for a large, very large waterproof plastic bag. And I typed it in, and I thought, "Oh my god, that sounds like I'm going to murder my husband "and try to bury him." (John and Dave laugh) It was actually-- >> John: Into the compost. >> Right, right. And I thought, "Oh my god, what does this look like "on the other side?" Now, it was actually for my summer garden furniture. But the point is, if you looked at that in an analytic way, who would I be? And so I think identity is very, you know-- >> John: Mistaken. >> Yeah, and also this idea of what Frank Pasquale calls the black box society. These secret algorithms that are controlling flows of money and information. How do they decide what my identity is? What are the moral decisions that they make around that? What does it say if I search for one thing over another? If I search constantly for expensive shoes, does that make me shallow? What do these things say? If I search for certain things around health. >> And there's a value judgment now associated with that that you're talking about, that you do not control. >> Absolutely, and which is probably linked to other things which will determine things like whether I get credit or not, but these can almost be arbitrary decisions, 'cause I have no oversight of the logic that's creating that decision making algorithm. So I think it's not just about identity, it's about who's deciding what that identity is. >> And it's also the reality that you're in, context, situations. Dark side, bright side of technology in this future where this new digital asset economy, digital capital. There's going to be good and bad, education can be consumed non-linear, new forms of consumptions, metadata, as you're pointing out, with the algorithms. Where do you see some bright spots and where do you see the danger areas? >> I think the great thing is, when you were saying software is the future. It's our present, but it's going to be even more so in our future. Some of the brightest brains in the world are involved in the creation of new technology. I just think they need to be focusing a bit more of that intellectual rigor towards the impact they're having on society and how they could do it better. 'Cause I think it's too much of a technocratic solution. Technologists say, "We can do this." The questions is, should they? So I think what we need to do is to loop them back into the more social and philosophical side of the discussion. And of course it's a wonderful thing, hopefully technology is going to do amazing things around health. We can't even predict how amazing it's going to be. But all I'm saying is that, if we don't ask the hard questions now about the downsides, we're going to be in a difficult societal position. But I'm hoping that we will, and I'm hoping that raising issues like techno ethics will get more of that discussion going. >> Well, transparency and open data make a big difference. >> Emer: Absolutely. >> Well, and public policy, as you said earlier, can play a huge role here. I wonder if you could give us your perspective on... Public policy, we're in the US most of the time, but it's interesting when we talk to customers here. To hear about the emphasis, obviously, on privacy, data location and so forth, so in the digital world, do you see Europe's emphasis and, I think, leading on those types of topics as an advantage in a digital world, or does it create friction from an economic standpoint? >> Yeah, but it's not all about economics. Friction is a good thing. There are some times when friction is a good thing. Most technologists think all friction is bad. >> Sure, and I'm not implying that it's necessarily good or bad, I'm curious though, is it potentially an economic advantage to have thought through and have policy on some of those issues? >> Well, what we're seeing here-- >> Because I feel like the US is a ticking time bomb on a lot of these issues. >> I was talking to VCs, some VC friends of mine here in the UK, and what they said they're seeing more and more, VCs asking what we call SMEs, small to medium enterprises, about their data policies, and SMEs not being able to answer those questions, and VCs getting nervous. So I think over time it's going to be a competitive advantage that we've done that homework, that we're basically not just rushing to get more users, but that we're looking at it across the piece. Because, fundamentally, that's more sustainable in the longer term. People will not be dumb too forever. They will not, and so doing that thinking now, where we work with people as we create our technology products, I think it's more sustainable in the long term. When you look at economics, sustainability is really important. >> I want to ask you about the Transport API business, 'cause in the US, same thing, we've seen some great openness of data and amazing innovations that have come out of nowhere. In some cases, unheard of entrepreneurs and/or organizations that better society for the betterment of people, from delivering healthcare to poor areas and whatnot. What has been the coolest thing, or of things you've seen come out of your enablement of the transport data. Use cases, have you seen any things that surprised you? >> It's quite interesting, because when I worked for the mayor of London as his director of digital projects, my job was to set up the London data store, which was to open all of London's public sector data. So I was kind of there from the beginning as a lobbyist, and when I was asking agencies to open up their data, they'd go, "What's the ROI?" And I'd just say, "I don't know." Because government's one and oh, I'm saying that was a chicken and egg, you got to put it out there. And we had a funny incident where some of the IT staff in transport for London accidentally let out this link, which is to the tracker net feed, and that powers the tube notice boards that says, "Your next tube is in a minute," whatever. And so the developer community went, "Ooh, this is interesting." >> John: Candy! >> Yeah, and of course, we had no documentation with it because it kind of went out under the radar. And one developer called Mathew Somerville made this map which showed the tubes on a map in real time. And it was like surfacing the underground. And people just thought, "Oh my god, that is amazing." >> John: It's illuminating. >> Yeah. It didn't do anything, but it showed the possibility. The newspapers picked it up, it was absolutely brilliant example, and the guy made it in half a day. And that was the first time people saw their transport system kind of differently. So that was amazing, and then we've seen hundreds of different applications that are being built all the time. And what we're also seeing is integration of transport data with other things, so one of our clients in Transport API is called Toothpick, and they're an online dental booking agency. And so you can go online, you can book your dental appointment with your NHS dentist, and then they bake in transport information to tell you how to get there. So we have pubs using them, and screens so people can order their dinner, and then they say, "You've got 10 minutes till the next bus." So all sorts of cross-platform applications. >> That you never could've envisioned. >> Emer: Never. >> And it's just your point earlier about it's not a zero sum game, you're giving so many ways to create value. >> Emer: Right, right. >> Again, I come back to this notion of education and creativity in the United States education system, so unattainable for so many people, and that's a real concern, and you're seeing the middle class get hollowed out. I think the stat is, the average wage in the United States was 55,000 in 1999, it's 50,000 today. The political campaigns are obviously picking at that scab. What's the climate like in Europe from that standpoint? >> In terms of education? >> No, just in terms of, yes, the education, middle class getting hollowed out, the sentiment around that. >> I don't think people are up to speed with that yet, I really don't think that they're aware of the scale. I think when they think robots or automation, they don't really think software. They think robots like there were in the movies, that would come, as I say, and do those jobs nobody wanted. But not like software. So when I say to them, look, E-discovery software, when it's applied retrospectively, what it shows is that human lawyers are only 60% accurate compared to it. Now, that's a no-brainer, right? If software is 100% accurate, I'm going to use the software. And the ratio difference is 1 to 500. Where you needed 500 lawyers before you need 1. So I don't think people are across the scale of change. >> But it's interesting, you're flying to Heathrow, you fly in and out, you're dealing with a kiosk. You drive out, the billboards are all electronic. There aren't guys doing this anymore. So it's tangible. >> And I think, to your point about education, I'm not as familiar with the education system in the US, but I certainly think, in Europe and in the UK, the education system is not capable of dealing even with the latest digital natives. They're still structuring their classrooms in the same way. These kids, you know-- >> John: They have missed the line with the technology. >> Absolutely. >> So reading, writing and arithmetic, fine. And the cost of education is maybe acceptable. But they may be teaching the wrong thing. >> Asynchronous non-linear, is the thing. >> There's a wonderful example of an Indian academic called Sugata Mitra, who has a fabulous project called a Hole in the Wall. And he goes to non-English speaking little Indian villages, and he builds a computer, and he puts a roof over it so only the children can do it. They don't speak English. And he came back, and he leaves a little bit of stuff they have to get around before they can play a game. And he came back six months later, and he said to them, "What did you think?" And one of the children said, "We need a faster CPU and a better mouse." Now, his point is self-learning, once you have access to technology, is amazing, and I think we have to start-- >> Same thing with the non-linear consumption, asynchronous, all this, the API economy enabling new kinds of expectation and opportunities. >> And it was interesting because the example, some UK schools tried to follow his example. And six months later, they rang him up and they said, "It's not working," and he said, "What did you do?" And they said, "Well, we got every kid a laptop." He said, "That's not the point." The point was putting a scarce resource that the children had to collaborate over. So in order to get to the game, they had figure out certain things. >> I think you're right on some of these (mumbles) that no one's talking about. And Dave and I are very passionate on this, and we're actually investing in a whole new e-learning concept. But it's not about doing that laptop thing or putting courseware online. That's old workflow in a new model. Come on, old wine in a new bottle. So that's interesting. I want to get your thoughts, so a personal question to end this segment. What are you passionate about now, what are you working, outside of the venture, which is exciting. You have a lot of background going back to technology entrepreneurship, public policy, and you're in the front lines now, thought leading on this whole new wide open sea of opportunity, confusion, enabling it. What are you passionate about, what are you working on? Share with the folks that are watching. >> So one of the main things we're trying to do. I work as an associate with Ernst & Young in London. And we've been having discussions over the past couple of months around techno ethics, and I've basically said, "Look, let's see if we can get EY "to build to build an EY good governance index." Like, what does good governance look like in this space, a massively complex area, but what I would love is if people would collaborate with us on that. If we could help to draw up an ethical framework that would convene the technology industry around some ethical good governance issues. So that's what I'm going to be working on as hard as I can over the next while, to try and get as much collaboration from the community, because I think we'd be so much more powerful if the technology industry was to say, "Yeah, let's try and do this better "rather than waiting for regulation," which will come, but will be too clunky and not fit for purpose. >> And which new technology that's emerging do you get most excited about? >> Hmm. Drones. (laughter) >> How about anything with bitcoin, block chains? >> Absolutely, absolutely, block chain. Yeah, block chain, you have to say, yeah. I think, 'cause bitcoin, you know, it's worth 20 p today, it's worth 200,000 tomorrow. >> Dave: Yeah, but block chain. >> Right, right. I mean, that is incredible potentiality. >> New terms like federated, that's not a new term, but federation, universal, unification. These are the themes right now. >> Emer: Well, it's like the road's been coated, isn't it? And we don't know where it's going to go. What a time we live in, right? >> Emer Coleman, thank you so much for spending your time and joining us on theCUBE here, we really appreciate the conversation. Thanks for sharing that great insight here on theCUBE, thank you. It's theCUBE, we are live here in Dublin, Ireland. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. We'll we right back with more SiliconANGLEs, theCUBE and extracting the signal from the noise after this short break. (bright music)

>>Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to the Cube's coverage of snowflake summit 22 live from Caesar's forum in Las Vegas. Lisa Martin, here with Dave Valante. This is day three of our coverage. We've had an amazing, amazing time. Great conversations talking with snowflake executives, partners, customers. We're gonna be digging into data mesh with data.world. Please welcome John loins, the chief product officer. Great to have you on the program, John, >>Thank you so much for, for having me here. I mean, the summit, like you said, has been incredible, so many great people, so such a good time, really, really nice to be back in person with folks. >>It is fabulous to be back in person. The fact that we're on day four for, for them. And this is the, the solution showcase is as packed as it is at 10 11 in the morning. Yeah. Is saying something >>Yeah. Usually >>Chopping at the bit to hear what they're doing and innovate. >>Absolutely. Usually those last days of conferences, everybody starts getting a little tired, but we're not seeing that at all here, especially >>In Vegas. This is impressive. Talk to the audience a little bit about data.world, what you guys do and talk about the snowflake relationship. >>Absolutely data.world is the only true cloud native enterprise data catalog. We've been an incredible snowflake partner and Snowflake's been an incredible partner to us really since 2018. When we became the first data catalog in the snowflake partner connect experience, you know, snowflake and the data cloud make it so possible. And it's changed so much in terms of being able to, you know, very easily transition data into the cloud to break down those silos and to have a platform that enables folks to be incredibly agile with data from an engineering and infrastructure standpoint, data out world is able to provide a layer of discovery and governance that matches that agility and the ability for a lot of different stakeholders to really participate in the process of data management and data governance. >>So data mesh basically Jamma, Dani lays out the first of all, the, the fault domains of existing data and big data initiatives. And she boils it down to the fact that it's just this monolithic architecture with hyper specialized teams that you have to go through and it just slows everything down and it doesn't scale. They don't have domain context. So she came up with four principles if I may, yep. Domain ownership. So push it out to the businesses. They have the context they should own the data. The second is data as product. We're certainly hearing a lot about that today this week. The third is that. So that makes it sounds good. Push out the, the data great, but it creates two problems. Self-serve infrastructure. Okay. But her premises infrastructure should be an operational detail. And then the fourth is computational governance. So you talked about data CA where do you fit in those four principles? >>You know, honestly, we are able to help teams realize the data mesh architecture. And we know that data mesh is really, it's, it's both a process in a culture change, but then when you want to enact a process in a culture change like this, you also need to select the appropriate tools to match the culture that you're trying to build the process in the architecture that you're trying to build. And the data world data catalog can really help along all four of those axes. When you start thinking first about, let's say like, let's take the first one, you know, data as a product, right? We even like very meta of us from metadata management platform at the end of the day. But very meta of us. When you talk about data as a product, we track adoption and usage of all your data assets within your organization and provide program teams and, you know, offices of the CDO with incredible evented analytics, very detailed that gives them the right audit trail that enables them to direct very scarce data engineering, data architecture resources, to make sure that their data assets are getting adopted and used properly. >>On the, on the domain driven side, we are entirely knowledge graph and open standards based enabling those different domains. We have, you know, incredible joint snowflake customers like Prologis. And we chatted a lot about this in our session here yesterday, where, because of our knowledge graph underpinnings, because of the flexibility of our metadata model, it enables those domains to actually model their assets uniquely from, from group to group, without having to, to relaunch or run different environments. Like you can do that all within one day catalog platform without having to have separate environments for each of those domains, federated governance. Again, the amount of like data exhaust that we create that really enables ambient governance and participatory governance as well. We call it agile data governance, really the adoption of agile and open principles applied to governance to make it more inclusive and transparent. And we provide that in a way that Confederate across those means and make it consistent. >>Okay. So you facilitate across that whole spectrum of, of principles. And so what in the, in the early examples of data mesh that I've studied and actually collaborated with, like with JPMC, who I don't think is who's not using your data catalog, but hello, fresh who may or may not be, but I mean, there, there are numbers and I wanna get to that. But what they've done is they've enabled the domains to spin up their own, whatever data lakes, data, warehouses, data hubs, at least in, in concept, most of 'em are data lakes on AWS, but still in concept, they wanna be inclusive and they've created a master data catalog. And then each domain has its sub catalogue, which feeds into the master and that's how they get consistency and governance and everything else is, is that the right way to think about it? And or do you have a different spin on that? >>Yeah, I, I, you know, I have a slightly different spin on it. I think organizationally it's the right way to think about it. And in absence of a catalog that can truly have multiple federated metadata models, multiple graphs in one platform, I, that is really kind of the, the, the only way to do it, right with data.world. You don't have to do that. You can have one platform, one environment, one instance of data.world that spans all of your domains, enable them to operate independently and then federate across. So >>You just answered my question as to why I should use data.world versus Amazon glue. >>Oh, absolutely. >>And that's a, that's awesome that you've done now. How have you done that? What, what's your secret >>Sauce? The, the secret sauce era is really an all credit to our CTO. One of my closest friends who was a true student of knowledge graph practices and principles, and really felt that the right way to manage metadata and knowledge about the data analytics ecosystem that companies were building was through federated linked data, right? So we use standards and we've built a, a, an open and extensible metadata model that we call costs that really takes the best parts of existing open standards in the semantics space. Things like schema.org, DCA, Dublin core brings them together and models out the most typical enterprise data assets providing you with an ontology that's ready to go. But because of the graph nature of what we do is instantly accessible without having to rebuild environments, without having to do a lot of management against it. It's, it's really quite something. And it's something all of our customers are, are very impressed with and, and, and, and, you know, are getting a lot of leverage out of, >>And, and we have a lot of time today, so we're not gonna shortchange this topic. So one last question, then I'll shut up and let you jump in. This is an open standard. It's not open source. >>No, it's an open built on open standards, built on open standards. We also fundamentally believe in extensibility and openness. We do not want to vertically like lock you into our platform. So everything that we have is API driven API available. Your metadata belongs to you. If you need to export your graph, you know, instantly available in open machine readable formats. That's really, we come from the open data community. That was a lot of the founding of data.world. We, we worked a lot in with the open data community and we, we fundamentally believe in that. And that's enabled a lot of our customers as well to truly take data.world and not have it be a data catalog application, but really an entire metadata management platform and extend it even further into their enterprise to, to really catalog all of their assets, but also to build incredible integrations to things like corporate search, you know, having data assets show up in corporate Wiki search, along with all the, the descriptive metadata that people need has been incredibly powerful and an incredible extension of our platform that I'm so happy to see our customers in. >>So leasing. So it's not exclusive to, to snowflake. It's not exclusive to AWS. You can bring it anywhere. Azure GCP, >>Anytime. Yeah. You know where we are, where we love snowflake, look, we're at the snowflake summit. And we've always had a great relationship with snowflake though, and really leaned in there because we really believe Snowflake's principles, particularly around cloud and being cloud native and the operating advantages that it affords companies that that's really aligned with what we do. And so snowflake was really the first of the cloud data catalogs that we ultimately or say the cloud data warehouses that we integrated with and to see them transition to building really out the data cloud has been awesome. >>Talk about how data world and snowflake enable companies like per lodges to be data companies. These days, every company has to be a data company, but they, they have to be able to do so quickly to be competitive and to, to really win. How do you help them if we like up level the conversation to really impacting the overall business? >>That's a great question, especially right now, everybody knows. And pro is a great example. They're a logistics and supply chain company at the end of the day. And we know how important logistics and supply chain is nowadays and for them and for a lot of our customers. I think one of the advantages of having a data catalog is the ability to build trust, transparency and inclusivity into their data analytics practice by adopting agile principles, by adopting a data mesh, you're able to extend your data analytics practice to a much broader set of stakeholders and to involve them in the process while the work is getting done. One of the greatest things about agile software development, when it became a thing in the early two thousands was how inclusive it was. And that inclusivity led to a much faster ROI on software projects. And we see the same thing happening in data analytics, people, you know, we have amazing data scientists and data analysts coming up with these insights that could be business changing that could make their company significantly more resilient, especially in the face of economic uncertainty. >>But if you have to sit there and argue with your business stakeholders about the validity of the data, about the, the techniques that were used to do the analysis, and it takes you three months to get people to trust what you've done, that opportunity's passed. So how do we shorten those cycles? How do we bring them closer? And that's, that's really a huge benefit that like Prologis has, has, has realized just tightening that cycle time, building trust, building inclusion, and making sure ultimately humans learn by doing, and if you can be inclusive, it, even, it even increases things like that. We all want to, to, to, to help cuz Lord knows the world needs it. Things like data literacy. Yeah. Right. >>So data.world can inform me as to where on the spectrum of data quality, my data set lives. So I can say, okay, this is usable, shareable, you know, exactly of gold standard versus fix this. Right. Okay. Yep. >>Yep. >>That's yeah. Okay. And you could do that with one data catalog, not a bunch of >>Yeah. And trust trust is really a multifaceted and multi multi-angle idea, right? It's not just necessarily data quality or data observability. And we have incredible partnerships in that space, like our partnership with, with Monte Carlo, where we can ingest all their like amazing observability information and display that in a really like a really consumable way in our data catalog. But it also includes things like the lineage who touch it, who is involved in the process of a, can I get a, a, a question answered quickly about this data? What's it been used for previously? And do I understand that it's so multifaceted that you have to be able to really model and present that in a way that's unique to any given organization, even unique within domains within a single organization. >>If you're not, that means to suggest you're a data quality. No, no supplier. Absolutely. But your partner with them and then that you become the, the master catalog. >>That's brilliant. I love it. Exactly. And you're >>You, you just raised your series C 15 million. >>We did. Yeah. So, you know, really lucky to have incredible investors like Goldman Sachs, who, who led our series C it really, I think, communicates the trust that they have in our vision and what we're doing and the impact that we can have on organization's ability to be agile and resilient around data analytics, >>Enabling customers to have that single source of truth is so critical. You talked about trust. That is absolutely. It's no joke. >>Absolutely. >>That is critical. And there's a tremendous amount of business impact, positive business impact that can come from that. What are some of the things that are next for data.world that we're gonna see? >>Oh, you know, I love this. We have such an incredibly innovative team. That's so dedicated to this space and the mission of what we're doing. We're out there trying to fundamentally change how people get data analytics work done together. One of the big reasons I founded the company is I, I really truly believe that data analytics needs to be a team sport. It needs to go from, you know, single player mode to team mode and everything that we've worked on in the last six years has leaned into that. Our architecture being cloud native, we do, we've done over a thousand releases a year that nobody has to manage. You don't have to worry about upgrading your environment. It's a lot of the same story that's made snowflake. So great. We are really excited to have announced in March on our own summit. And we're rolling this suite of features out over the course of the year, a new package of features that we call data.world Eureka, which is a suite of automations and, you know, knowledge driven functionality that really helps you leverage a knowledge graph to make decisions faster and to operationalize your data in, in the data ops way with significantly less effort, >>Big, big impact there. John, thank you so much for joining David, me unpacking what data world is doing. The data mesh, the opportunities that you're giving to customers and every industry. We appreciate your time and congratulations on the news and the funding. >>Ah, thank you. It's been a, a true pleasure. Thank you for having me on and, and I hope, I hope you guys enjoy the rest of, of the day and, and your other guests that you have. Thank you. >>We will. All right. For our guest and Dave ante, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cubes third day of coverage of snowflake summit, 22 live from Vegas, Dave and I will be right back with our next guest. So stick around.

>>welcome back. And thanks for joining us for our second session. External data, your new leading indicators. We'll be hearing from industry leaders as they share best practices and challenges in leveraging external data. This panel will be a true conversation on the part of the possible. All right, let's get to >>it >>today. We're excited to be joined by thought spots. Chief Data Strategy Officer Cindy Housing Deloitte's chief data officer Manteo, the founder and CEO of Eagle Alfa. And it Kilduff and Snowflakes, VP of data marketplace and customer product strategy. Matt Glickman. Cindy. Without further ado, the floor is yours. >>Thank you, Mallory. And I am thrilled to have this brilliant team joining us from around the world. And they really bring each a very unique perspective. So I'm going to start from further away. Emmett, Welcome. Where you joining us from? >>Thanks for having us, Cindy. I'm joining from Dublin, Ireland, >>great. And and tell us a little bit about Eagle Alfa. What do you dio >>from a company's perspective? Think of Eagle Alfa as an aggregator off all the external data sets on a word I'll use a few times. Today is a big advantage we could bring companies is we have a data concierge service. There's so much data we can help identify the right data sets depending on the specific needs of the company. >>Yeah. And so, Emma, you know, people think I was a little I kind of shocked the industry. Going from gardener to a tech startup. Um, you have had a brave journey as well, Going from financial services to starting this company, really pioneering it with I think the most data sets of any of thes is that right? >>Yes, it was. It was a big jump to go from Morgan Stanley. Uh, leave the comforts of that environment Thio, PowerPoint deck and myself raising funding eight years ago s So it was a big jump on. We were very early in our market. It's in the last few years where there's been real momentum and adoption by various types of verticals. The hedge funds were first, maybe then private equity, but corporate sar are following quite quickly from behind. That will be the biggest users, in our view, by by a significant distance. >>Yeah, great. Thank um, it So we're going to go a little farther a field now, but back to the U. S. So, Juan, where you joining us from? >>Hey, Cindy. Thanks for having me. I'm joining you from Houston, Texas. >>Great. Used to be my home. Yeah, probably see Rice University back there. And you have a distinct perspective serving both Deloitte customers externally, but also internally. Can you tell us about that? >>Yeah, absolutely. So I serve as the Lord consultants, chief data officer, and as a professional service firm, I have the responsibility for overseeing our overall data agenda, which includes both the way we use data and insights to run and operate our own business, but also in how we develop data and insights services that we then take to market and how we serve our dealers and clients. >>Great. Thank you, Juan. And last but not least, Matt Glickman. Kind of in my own backyard in New York. Right, Matt? >>Correct. Joining I haven't been into the city and many months, but yes, um, based in New York. >>Okay. Great. And so, Matt, you and Emmett also, you know, brave pioneers in this space, and I'm remembering a conversation you and I shared when you were still a J. P. Morgan, I believe. And you're Goldman Sachs. Sorry. Sorry. Goldman. Can you Can you share that with us? >>Sure. I made the move back in 2015. Um, when everyone thought, you know, my wife, my wife included that I was crazy. I don't know if I would call it Comfortable was emitted, but particularly had been there for a long time on git suffered in some ways. A lot of the pains we're talking about today, given the number of data, says that the amount of of new data sets that are always demand for having run analytics teams at Goldman, seeing the pain and realizing that this pain was not unique to Goldman Sachs, it was being replicated everywhere across the industry, um, in a mind boggling way and and the fortuitous, um, luck to have one of snowflakes. Founders come to pitch snowflake to Goldman a little bit early. Um, they became a customer later, but a little bit early in 2014. And, you know, I realized that this was clearly, you know, the answer from first principles on bond. If I ever was going to leave, this was a problem. I was acutely aware of. And I also was aware of how much the man that was in financial services for a better solution and how the cloud could really solve this problem in particular the ability to not have to move data in and out of these organizations. And this was something that I saw the future of. Thank you, Andi, that this was, you know, sort of the pain that people just expected to pay. Um, this price if you need a data, there was method you had thio. You had to use you either ftp data in and out. You had data that was being, you know, dropped off and, you know, maybe in in in a new ways and cloud buckets or a P i s You have to suck all this data down and reconstruct it. And God forbid the formats change. It was, you know, a nightmare. And then having issues with data, you had a what you were seeing internally. You look nothing like what the data vendors were seeing because they want a completely different system, maybe model completely differently. Um, but this was just the way things were. Everyone had firewalls. Everyone had their own data centers. There was no other way on git was super costly. And you know this. I won't even share the the details of you know, the errors that would occur in the pain that would come from that, Um what I realized it was confirmed. What I saw it snowflake at the time was once everyone moves to run their actual workloads in this in the cloud right where you're now beyond your firewall, you'll have all this scale. But on top of that, you'll be able to point at data from these vendors were not there the traditional data vendors. Or, you know, this new wave of alternative data vendors, for example, like the ones that eagle out for brings together And bring these all these data sets together with your own internal data without moving it. Yeah, this was a fundamental shift of what you know, it's in some ways, it was a side effect of everyone moving to the cloud for costs and scale and elasticity. But as a side effect of that is what we talked about, You know it snowflake summit, you know, yesterday was this notion of a data cloud that would connect data between regions between cloud vendors between customers in a way where you could now reference data. Just like your reference websites today, I don't download CNN dot com. I point at it, and it points me to something else. I'm always seeing the latest version, obviously, and we can, you know, all collaborate on what I'm seeing on that website. That's the same thing that now can happen with data. So And I saw this as what was possible, and I distinctly asked the question, you know, the CEO of the time Is this possible? And not only was it possible it was a fundamental construct that was built into the way that snowflake was delivered. And then, lastly, this is what we learned. And I think this is what you know. M It also has been touting is that it's all great if data is out there and even if you lower that bar of access where data doesn't have to move, how do I know? Right? If I'm back to sitting at Goldman Sachs, how do I know what data is available to me now in this this you know, connected data network eso we released our data marketplace, which was a very different kind of marketplace than these of the past. Where for us, it was really like a global catalog that would elect a consumer data consumer. Noah data was available, but also level the playing field. Now we're now, you know, Eagle, Alfa, or even, you know, a new alternative data vendor build something in their in their basement can now publish that data set so that the world could see and consume and be aligned to, you know, snowflakes, core business, and not where we wouldn't have to be competing or having to take, um, any kind of custody of that data. So adding that catalog to this now ubiquitous access, um really changed the game and, you know, and then now I seem like a genius for making this move. But back then, like I said, we've seen I seem like instant. I was insane. >>Well, given, given that snowflake was the hottest aipo like ever, you were a genius. Uh, doing this, you know, six years in advance. E think we all agree on that, But, you know, a lot of this is still visionary. Um, you know, some of the most leading companies are already doing this. But one What? What is your take our Are you best in class customers still moving the data? Or is this like they're at least thinking about data monetization? What are you seeing from your perspective? >>Yeah, I mean, I did you know, the overall appreciation and understanding of you know, one. I got to get my house in order around my data, um, has something that has been, you know, understood and acted upon. Andi, I do agree that there is a shift now that says, you know, data silos alone aren't necessarily gonna bring me, you know, new and unique insights on dso enriching that with external third party data is absolutely, you know, sort of the the ship that we're seeing our customers undergo. Um, what I find extremely interesting in this space and what some of the most mature clients are doing is, you know, really taking advantage of these data marketplaces. But building data partnerships right there from what mutually exclusive, where there is a win win scenario for for you know, that organization and that could be, you know, retail customers or life science customers like with pandemic, right the way we saw companies that weren't naturally sharing information are now building these data partnership right that are going are going into mutually benefit, you know, all organizations that are sort of part of that value to Andi. I think that's the sort of really important criteria. And how we're seeing our clients that are extremely successful at this is that partnership has benefits on both sides of that equation, right? Both the data provider and then the consumer of that. And there has to be, you know, some way to ensure that both parties are are are learning right, gaining you insights to support, you know, whatever their business organization going on. >>Yeah, great one. So those data partnerships getting across the full value chain of sharing data and analytics Emmett, you work on both sides of the equation here, helping companies. Let's say let's say data providers maybe, like, you know, cast with human mobility monetize that. But then also people that are new to it. Where you seeing the top use cases? Well, >>interestingly, I agree with one of the supply side. One of the interesting trends is we're seeing a lot more data coming from large Corporates. Whether they're listed are private equity backed, as opposed to maybe data startups that are earning money just through data monetization. I think that's a great trend. I think that means a lot of the best. Data said it data is yet to come, um, in terms off the tough economy and how that's changed. I think the category that's had the most momentum and your references is Geo location data. It's that was the category at our conference in December 2000 and 12 that was pipped as the category to watch in 2019. On it didn't become that at all. Um, there were some regulatory concerns for certain types of geo data, but with with covert 19, it's Bean absolutely critical for governments, ministries of finance, central banks, municipalities, Thio crunch that data to understand what's happening in a real time basis. But from a company perspective, it's obviously critical as well. In terms of planning when customers might be back in the High Street on DSO, fourth traditionally consumer transaction data of all the 26 categories in our taxonomy has been the most popular. But Geo is definitely catching up your slide. Talked about being a tough economy. Just one point to contradict that for certain pockets of our clients, e commerce companies are having a field day, obviously, on they are very data driven and tech literate on day are they are really good client base for us because they're incredibly hungry, firm or data to help drive various, uh, decision making. >>Yeah, So fair enough. Some sectors of the economy e commerce, electron, ICS, healthcare are doing great. Others travel, hospitality, Um, super challenging. So I like your quote. The best is yet to come, >>but >>that's data sets is yet to come. And I do think the cloud is enabling that because we could get rid of some of the messy manual data flows that Matt you talked about, but nonetheless, Still, one of the hardest things is the data map. Things combining internal and external >>when >>you might not even have good master data. Common keys on your internal data. So any advice for this? Anyone who wants to take that? >>Sure I can. I can I can start. That's okay. I do think you know, one of the first problems is just a cataloging of the information that's out there. Um, you know, at least within our organization. When I took on this role, we were, you know, a large buyer of third party data. But our organization as a whole didn't necessarily have full visibility into what was being bought and for what purpose. And so having a catalog that helps us internally navigate what data we have and how we're gonna use it was sort of step number one. Um, so I think that's absolutely important. Um, I would say if we could go from having that catalog, you know, created manually to more automated to me, that's sort of the next step in our evolution, because everyone is saying right, the ongoing, uh, you know, creation of new external data sets. It's only going to get richer on DSO. We wanna be able to take advantage of that, you know, at the at the pacing speed, that data is being created. So going from Emanuel catalog to anonymous >>data >>catalog, I think, is a key capability for us. But then you know, to your second point, Cindy is how doe I then connect that to our own internal data to drive greater greater insights and how we run our business or how we serve our customers. Andi, that one you know really is a It's a tricky is a tricky, uh, question because I think it just depends on what data we're looking toe leverage. You know, we have this concept just around. Not not all data is created equal. And when you think about governance and you think about the management of your master data, your internal nomenclature on how you define and run your business, you know that that entire ecosystem begins to get extremely massive and it gets very broad and very deep on DSO for us. You know, government and master data management is absolutely important. But we took a very sort of prioritized approach on which domains do we really need to get right that drive the greatest results for our organization on dso mapping those domains like client data or employee data to these external third party data sources across this catalog was really the the unlocked for us versus trying to create this, you know, massive connection between all the external data that we're, uh, leveraging as well as all of our own internal data eso for us. I think it was very. It was a very tailored, prioritized approach to connecting internal data to external data based on the domains that matter most to our business. >>So if the domains so customer important domain and maybe that's looking at things, um, you know, whether it's social media data or customer transactions, you prioritized first by that, Is that right? >>That's correct. That's correct. >>And so, then, Matt, I'm going to throw it back to you because snowflake is in a unique position. You actually get to see what are the most popular data sets is is that playing out what one described are you seeing that play out? >>I I'd say Watch this space. Like like you said. I mean this. We've you know, I think we start with the data club. We solve that that movement problem, which I think was really the barrier that you tended to not even have a chance to focus on this mapping problem. Um, this notion of concordance, I think this is where I see the big next momentum in this space is going to be a flurry of traditional and new startups who deliver this concordance or knowledge graph as a service where this is no longer a problem that I have to solve internal to my organization. The notion of mastering which is again when everyone has to do in every organization like they used to have to do with moving data into the organization goes away. And this becomes like, I find the best of breed for the different scopes of data that I have. And it's delivered to me as a, you know, as a cloud service that just takes my data. My internal data maps it to these 2nd and 3rd party data sets. Um, all delivered to me, you know, a service. >>Yeah, well, that would be brilliant concordance as a service or or clean clean master data as a service. Um, using augmented data prep would be brilliant. So let's hope we get there. Um, you know, so 2020 has been a wild ride for everyone. If I could ask each of you imagine what is the art of the possible or looking ahead to the next to your and that you are you already mentioned the best is yet to come. Can you want to drill down on that. What what part of the best is yet to come or what is your already two possible? >>Just just a brief comment on mapping. Just this week we published a white paper on mapping, which is available for for anyone on eagle alfa dot com. It's It's a massive challenge. It's very difficult to solve. Just with technology Onda people have tried to solve it and get a certain level of accuracy, but can't get to 100% which which, which, which makes it difficult to solve it. If if if there is a new service coming out against 100% I'm all ears and that there will be a massive step forward for the entire data industry, even if it comes in a few years time, let alone next year, I think going back to the comment on data Cindy. Yes, I think boards of companies are Mawr and Mawr. Viewing data as an asset as opposed to an expense are a cost center on bond. They are looking therefore to get their internal house in order, as one was saying, but also monetize the data they are sitting on lots of companies. They're sitting on potentially valuable data. It's not all valuable on a lot of cases. They think it's worth a lot more than it is being frank. But in some cases there is valuable data on bond. If monetized, it can drop to the bottom line on. So I think that bodes well right across the world. A lot of the best date is yet to come on. I think a lot of firms like Deloitte are very well positioned to help drive that adoption because they are the trusted advisor to a lot of these Corporates. Um, so that's one thing. I think, from a company perspective. It's still we're still at the first base. It's quite frustrating how slow a lot of companies are to move and adopt, and some of them are haven't hired CDO. Some of them don't have their internal house in order. I think that has to change next year. I think if we have this conference at this time next year, I would expect that would hopefully be close to the tipping point for Corporates to use external data. And the Malcolm Gladwell tipping point on the final point I make is I think, that will hopefully start to see multi department use as opposed to silos again. Parliaments and silos, hopefully will be more coordinated on the company's side. Data could be used by marketing by sales by r and D by strategy by finance holds external data. So it really, hopefully will be coordinated by this time next year. >>Yeah, Thank you. So, to your point, there recently was an article to about one of the airlines that their data actually has more value than the company itself now. So I know, I know. We're counting on, you know, integrators trusted advisers like Deloitte to help us get there. Uh, one what? What do you think? And if I can also drill down, you know, financial services was early toe all of this because they needed the early signals. And and we talk about, you know, is is external data now more valuable than internal? Because we need those early signals in just such a different economy. >>Yeah, I think you know, for me, it's it's the seamless integration of all these external data sources and and the signals that organizations need and how to bring those into, you know, the day to day operations of your organization, right? So how do you bring those into, You know, you're planning process. How do you bring that into your sales process on DSO? I think for me success or or where I see the that the use and adoption of this is it's got to get down to that level off of operations for organizations. For this to continue to move at the pace and deliver the value that you know, we're all describing. I think we're going to get there. But I think until organizations truly get down to that level of operations and how they're using this data, it'll sort of seem like a Bolton, right? So for me, I think it's all about Mawr, the seamless integration. And I think to what Matt mentioned just around services that could help connect external data with internal data. I'll take that one step beyond and say, How can we have the data connect itself? Eso I had references Thio, you know, automation and machine learning. Um, there's significant advances in terms of how we're seeing, you know, mapping to occur in a auto generated fashion. I think this specific space and again the connection between external and internal data is a prime example of where we need to disrupt that, you know, sort of traditional data pipeline on. Try to automate that as much as possible. And let's have the data, you know, connect itself because it then sort of supports. You know, the first concept which waas How do we make it more seamless and integrated into, you know, the business processes of the organization's >>Yeah, great ones. So you two are thinking those automated, more intelligent data pipelines will get us there faster. Matt, you already gave us one. Great, Uh, look ahead, Any more to add to >>it, I'll give you I'll give you two more. One is a bit controversial, but I'll throw that you anyway, um, going back to the point that one made about data partnerships What you were saying Cindy about, you know, the value. These companies, you know, tends to be somehow sometimes more about the data they have than the actual service they provide. I predict you're going to see a wave of mergers and acquisitions. Um, that it's solely about locking down access to data as opposed to having data open up. Um to the broader, you know, economy, if I can, whether that be a retailer or, you know, insurance company was thes prime data assets. Um, you know, they could try to monetize that themselves, But if someone could acquire them and get exclusive access that data, I think that's going to be a wave of, um, in a that is gonna be like, Well, we bought this for this amount of money because of their data assets s. So I think that's gonna be a big wave. And it'll be maybe under the guise of data partnerships. But it really be about, you know, get locking down exclusive access to valuable data as opposed to trying toe monetize it itself number one. And then lastly, you know. Now, did you have this kind of ubiquity of data in this interconnected data network? Well, we're starting to see, and I think going to see a big wave of is hyper personalization of applications where instead of having the application have the data itself Have me Matt at Snowflake. Bring my data graph to applications. Right? This decoupling of we always talk about how you get data out of these applications. It's sort of the reverse was saying Now I want to bring all of my data access that I have 1st, 2nd and 3rd party into my application. Instead of having to think about getting all the data out of these applications, I think about it how when you you know, using a workout app in the consumer space, right? I can connect my Spotify or connect my apple music into that app to personalize the experience and bring my music list to that. Imagine if I could do that, you know, in a in a CRM. Imagine I could do that in a risk management. Imagine I could do that in a marketing app where I can bring my entire data graph with me and personalize that experience for, you know, for given what I have. And I think again, you know, partners like thoughts. But I think in a unique position to help enable that capability, you know, for this next wave of of applications that really take advantage of this decoupling of data. But having data flow into the app tied to me as opposed to having the APP have to know about my data ahead of time, >>Yeah, yeah, So that is very forward thinking. So I'll end with a prediction and a best practice. I am predicting that the organizations that really leverage external data, new data sources, not just whether or what have you and modernize those data flows will outperform the organizations that don't. And as a best practice to getting there, I the CDOs that own this have at least visibility into everything they're purchasing can save millions of dollars in duplicate spend. So, Thio, get their three key takeaways. Identify the leading indicators and market signals The data you need Thio. Better identify that. Consolidate those purchases and please explore the data sets the range of data sets data providers that we have on the thought spot. Atlas Marketplace Mallory over to you. >>Wow. Thank you. That was incredible. Thank you. To all of our Panelists for being here and sharing that wisdom. We really appreciate it. For those of you at home, stay close by. Our third session is coming right up and we'll be joined by our partner AWS and get to see how you can leverage the full power of your data cloud complete with the demo. Make sure to tune in to see you >>then

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with coverage of Susic on digital brought to you by Susan. >>Right? Hi. I'm Stew Minuteman. And welcome to the Cube's coverage of Susic on Digital 20. Rather than gathering together in Dublin, we have a larger audience online watching everything digitally, really helping a happy to have on the program. Back to the program. One of our cube alumni. She is fresh off the keynote stage. Melissa DiDonato. She is the CEO of Tuesday. Melissa. So good to see you. Wish it could all be in person. But, you know, thanks for having the Cube in. Ah, >>thank you very much for joining us as well. My third time on the show. I'm really, really pleased to be an important part of our digital experience with Susie. Conditional. So still what? Nice to see you. >>All right. So last time you were on the program, you spoke to Dave. Dave a lot today about how you know you're keeping your employees safe and keeping them productive. The note I heard clearly from you in your keynote presentation is really a sense of optimism. So, like, if you could bring us a little bit inside. You know, I'm sure you're talking to a lot of your customers. What is it even then in these unprecedented Well, I'm giving you that sense of optimism. >>Yeah, there's no denying where we are in the world with Kobe. 19. We have a whole different way of looking at the world. Every business in every industry has been impacted, and not just the working life but our family life. The way we communicate, the way we run our homes, our environments at work is it's been very much integrated now. It's a very different way of adding a whole different level of stress that we didn't have in our business life just a couple of months ago. And I think, as I told Dave, the most important thing for me is number one to make sure that our employees remain self safe and healthy. That's number one, And I think that as we experience negativity across the world of news and social media, etcetera, that my hope is that the community and the Susan family remain optimistic and you know, why do we have the ability to remain optimistic when everyone else is experiencing a lot of doom and gloom. One White House, because you rightly so said, Let me talk about Sousa and how we wouldn't in our community. Our thesis is the power of many. This power of many in a virtual community really drives innovation. We're not like proprietary software and many other tech companies where you have to resign the building to make sure that we maintain and evangelize innovation that you live and deliver to your customers. For us, it's very different. Our community is the basis for innovation. It's the pillar of our community, of our company, our ethos in our value. So it's Susa. This spirit of collaboration and integration is live today more than ever before, with 99% of our employees working from home being engaged a very different way than maybe they're used to. But not so unlike engaging the innovation that we get out of our community. I think you mentioned something else do that's really important. That's productivity. We've moved away as of the first of March and measuring productivity in exchange for measuring the way that we integrate and elaborate and engage with our place. So instead of productivity, we're measuring engagement. Our employees are becoming much more engaged with each other with our customers and our communities. And of course, our partners they're giving back to their community. They're measuring the engagement they're successful means of delivering or how much they can give back to their communities. So we've seen a huge rise and are employees giving back to their communities around them. For example, I met an employee who is donating a very big part of his bonus percentage to a hospital to pay for lunches for frontline health workers near his his home, our nerve of Germany office. They're giving their lunch vouchers and donating that to all of the homeless people around their community. And then we've got employees around Italy, one in particular that's created a virtual classroom for a son school and the community around him. So you know, everyone's really pitching in, I think finally, from a community perspective, we're also sponsoring a numerous amount of hackathons. For example, in Germany, the government has recently held a hackathon for community based solutions to combat code. In 19 our employees participated in engaged with their one day off. We give every employee one day off a year to engage for charitable cause and the results of this hackathon is a better understanding of the data per states about code in 19 across the country. So I think all in all, everything that we're doing is really trying to, you know, utilize the community as we always have, is open source. Open source is developed in a community that often times does not sit together. And now we're trying to really engage with that community as much as possible to keep innovation alive, to keep collaboration alive and not just for the purpose of innovation, but for the purpose of combating the virus and giving hope and first gratitude to this community and across all of our population across the world. I really do believe that in challenging times like today, it's the best way to realize the innovation that we can put together, triggering innovation for good. But also bringing out the best in humanity is it's amazing to see what you know. Thousands and thousands of people in the open source world are giving and delivering and collaborating in which to solve the worlds Problems Cove in 19 but also innovation problems for today and tomorrow >>Yeah, Melissa said some great stories that you have there, you know, we, of course, are huge supporters of communities in general. I've had a great pleasure not only recently but over the last 20 years, watching Linux communities on what's happening in open source. One of the key constituencies, obviously, to your audience, our developers. There are quite a few announcements that I talked about on the keynote stage was wondering if you could help walk through Ah, for our audience. You know, the primary announcements and especially, you know, the impact that it will have on the developer developer community. >>Yeah, that's right. So the developers are entranced, obviously, as part of Susa, where deep open source roots and they're ingrained in our culture. So we just recently focused on a new developer community with content specifically targeted to developer use cases for application platform offering. So over the next couple of months, we're gonna roll out content analytics, open source, Dev >>ops. All >>these things that you are sure loves to micro services, containers, kubernetes edge and and the like. So a lot of innovative technologies as our content. Now what we are offering in the developer community is the SuSE Cloud application platform developer sandbox. We wanted to make it easy for these developers who just spoke of to benefit from the best practices that evolved from the cloud native application delivery that we offer every day. Of course, the customers and now for free to our developers, we want them to be able to easier, easily apply their skills to create applications that can run anywhere, anywhere from on Prem Private Public Cloud and the access is and the developers to get access and hands on experience. That SuSE cloud application platform without having to spend all of their own environment is it is a big test or commitment to the developer community that can explore tests and develop without having any hardware services themselves. It's a really I've signed up myself. Hopefully, you will, too, and join the community and give some feedback and engage in this open source community. For developers, it's really important for everybody. You can find it at developer dot cisco dot com, in addition to the sandbox is I just mentioned you'll also find there are developer forums. It's got getting started guides and other useful examples of how to accelerate the adoption of the cloud application platform and all of the demo tools you can use. It's I can't express the importance enough that we put in place in our developers. Our developer community is a really important part to reach the innovation that we so hoped and live for every day. So we need to provide them the tools to be successful. So I think when you're gonna see Studio is a lot more engagement with our developer community and a lot more integration with them, a collaboration with them. As time goes on, it's a big part of our focus coming in now to 2020 and, of course, the second half of the year. >>So, Melissa, one of the other point that you made in your keynote is that Souza is now, you know, fully independent. It's always been an open source company, a long history there. But what does this one year of independence mean for your customers and that partner ecosystem? >>Yeah, it's a big deal for us, so it's a really big deal. We swung away from micro focus a year ago and mark so just now, Pastor, one year we're now in control of our destiny and the future is very, very bright. I think going forward in the next year, what you can expect from Susan is continued focus and support our customers, of course, the digital transformation efforts that we need to put into helping them go through this transformation. I saw a cartoon, You know, the other day everyone probably saw who's leading your digital transformation. Experts efforts your CEO, your see Iot or Corona virus. And I think we all agree that Corona viruses, but a new effort and focus on the digital transformation of our companies and our customers need to go through. So I think we need to be sure that with this new independence that we focus on that digital transformation effort. Couple that with our open source innovation and no matter where our customers are on their journey, that we give them the enabling tools to get there. We start with simplifying, modernizing and accelerating our customers journey, and you're gonna hear a lot about that in the keynote that I just did, um, simplifying first. So simplifying and optimizing our customer's applications and the data to exist in I T Environment. That's going to help them go on the journey to modernize, modernizing everything about the I T infrastructure as well as their legacy applications, to utilize modernizing, modernized technologies like containers or edge or cloud, or for the like. By simplifying and modernizing, our customers can then begin to accelerate. They can accelerate innovation. They can accelerate growth. They can accelerate delivery of whatever services and applications they want to deliver, for example, capabilities around AI and edge. And they can scale their companies to bring markets product to market faster and even at a lower cost. So I think when you think about Susan our independence, I want our customers to know and understand that our focus will always be to simplify, modernize and accelerate, but also to remain nimble, how our customers, our partners, our community, innovate faster based on customer business requirements and to solve problems of today and tomorrow, not just what we knew before. So we're much more connected with our customers and ever before, and we want to be able to offer them the flexibility that they heard that learned to love it. Enjoy from Susa more some now than ever our customers agenda. Su is our only agenda in a world where everyone wants to be the best at everything. The only thing we want to be number one with is customer satisfaction. We will say number one in the market because we love servicing our customers. We love being maniacally focused on our customers, needs their business problems and creating solutions that are tailored with services that make them more successful. I think you can expect Souza to enter new markets like powering, for example, autonomous vehicles with safety certified legs and other really innovative technologies that were developed every single day in our community with our developers to solve customer business problems. I say to the teams every day, you know, we're big enough for scale, and we're small enough to be nimble and to be flexible to service our customers first. So expecting that from Susa in our independence, but always, of course. >>Yeah, Melissa, you talk about things like ai and Ed and innovation, and you just brought up autonomous vehicles. So, you know, not only is a cool area, but really highlights uh, you know, a lot of these waves coming together. You announced up onstage. Really cool looking company. Electro bit. I noticed there, Green almost matched. Your companies do So. Tell us about this. This is a partnership. Why? It's important. And you know what? What others can learn about it. >>Yeah, sure. So Electra bit. We just partnered with that. Made the announcement today in the keynote there, the leading Internet global international provider of embedded software solutions for automotive. So it's a whole new area for US safety certified Linux is the first for Susan in this industry. I recently met virtually with Alexander coaching the CEO Electra bit to learn more about his company innovation, that we're gonna drive together. We've got a whole session at Susan Con Digital in the platform to talk about what we're doing with safety certified Lennox and what we're doing with Elektra bit. I can't wait to tell you more about, and I've got a 1 to 1 fireside chat with Alex, and I think you're gonna love to learn more about, you know, maybe something else. Wei mentioned in the keynote they may want to know about. And that's the artificial intelligence solution that I specifically talked about launching next quarter. This is I'm super excited about as well. I mean, it's really easy to be excited here, Susan, when you have constant rolling innovation in our community and delivering that to our customers. But this is also an exciting space. The solution that we're launching next quarter is going to benefit both data scientists and I t operations teams by simplifying the integration of key AI building blocks that are going to be required to develop quickly test and then deploy the next generation of intelligence solutions. So keep your eyes open for that to we're gonna have some game changing solutions for Susan and all of our customer promise ai solution next quarter. So two big announcements for us here exclusively. It's music on digital. I can't wait to share all the details Next order with AI, but also with Alex in the fireside chat I had with him during the week. >>Alright, So great, Melissa, A couple of big announcements that you talked about give >>us a >>little bit of a look forward. So, you know, you talked about what? One year of it, and it means what should people be looking at? What goals do you have for the community and the company actually look through the rest of 2020 >>as we look to the rest of 2020. I think, um, it's been a hard year already, and I couldn't have predicted when I took over a CEO of this great company nearly 10 months ago that we'd be having the hard times that we currently have. I can honestly say that there's no place I'd rather be. The fact that we are in the best company in the best industry, with open source at our roots at our heart that will never change but you can expect from us is consistent and constant innovation. You could look for us to be nimble, dependable. You can look for us for growth and there ever were a recession proof company that delivers the best solutions to our customers. I think Susie's in fact, I know it is. We're going to double in size and three years, so we're going to go from just under 1/2 a 1,000,000,000 to a 1,000,000,000 in revenue and what in three years time and we've got the constant trajectory and the means of which to do it. We're really looking from a strategic perspective. The rest of this year. How can we simplify, modernize, accelerate the solutions delivered to our customers to ensure we constantly focus on innovative technologies, keeping open source of value's and ethos to our core? And then also consider how do we ensure a safe, stable quality environment that's building on tools such as optimizing and automating their environment to get the best out of their technology stack? And that's when you should expect to see from some of the rest of this year as we go obviously into 2021. You're gonna want to watch the space to stay tuned for the look at Susa. We're growing like a rocket ship, and we have still intention of going through the crisis and, of course, going into the back half of 2020. But we're accelerating with pace going into 2021. >>Alright, well, Melissa, I'm definitely looking forward to talking to some of your customers, some of your partners in some of your team. So thanks again for joining us, definitely looking forward to catching up with you further down the line. >>I look forward to it. Thank you so much for the time today, and obviously the focus on, Susan. We're super excited to share where we're going, where we've come from and what the journey looks like Ahead. So thanks for the excitement that you're sharing with us throughout this week. Really appreciate you. Thank you. >>Alright. And be sure to stay with us. We've got wall to wall coverage Susic on digital money. Even if we're not at a physical event, we get to do them all remotely digitally. That global digital experience. I'm stew Minimum. And thank you for watching the Cube. >>Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with coverage of SUSECON Digital brought to you by SUSE. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of SUSECON Digital '20. I'm Stu Miniman and happy to welcome to the program one of SUSE's partners, we have Marc O'Regan, he is the CTO of EMEA for Dell Technologies. Marc, it is great to see you, we all wish, I know when I talked to Melissa Di Donato and the team, everybody was really looking forward to coming to Ireland, but at least we're talking to you in Ireland so thanks so much for joining us. >> Stu, thanks very much for having me. I'm delighted to be here. You know, really looking forward to getting you guys here, unfortunately it wasn't a beaver, once we're all safe and well, great to talk. >> Yeah, absolutely, that's the important thing. Everybody is safe, we've had theCUBE a couple of times in Dublin. I'd actually, you know, circled this one on my calendar 'cause I wanted to get back the Emerald Isle but, Marc, let's talk first, you know, the Dell and SUSE relationship you know, disclaimer, you know, I've got a little bit of background on this. You know, I was the product manager for Linux at a company known as EMC back before Dell bought them, many moons ago, so I know that, you know, Dell and the Dell EMC relationship with SUSE go back a couple of decades, but, you know, bring us into, you know, what your teams are working together and we'll go from there. >> Yeah, sure, Stu, so, quite correct, nearly a two decade long relationship with SUSE and one that we hold very dear to our heart. I think what both organizations have in common is their thirst and will to innovate and we've been doing that with SUSE for 16, 17 years, right back to, you know, SUSE Enterprise Linux sitting on, you know, PowerEdge architecture way, way back in the day into you know, some of the developments and collaborations that we, that we worked through with the SUSE teams. I remember back 2013, 2014 doing a pretty cool program with our then Fluid Cache technology. So, when you look at, you know, OLTP kind of environments, what you want to kind of get away from is the, you know, the read-write, commits and latency that are inherent in those types of environments. So, as you start to build and get more users hitting the, hitting the ecosystem, you need to be able to respond and SUSE has been absolutely, you know, instrumental to helping us build an architecture then with our Fluid Cache technology back in the day, and the SUSE technology sitting around and under that and then of course, in more recent times, really extending that innovation aspiration, I guess, has been absolutely a pleasure to, to watch and to be involved with, see it mature so some of the cool platforms that we're developing with SUSE together it's a, it's pretty neat so I'm, you know, one of those being-- >> So, Marc, yeah, well, you know, bring us up to speed, you know, right in the early days, it was, you know, Linux on the SUSE side, it was, you know, servers and storage from the Dell side, you know, today it's, you know, microservice architectures, cloud native solutions. So, you know, bring us up to speed as to some of the important technologies and obviously, you know, both companies have matured and grown and have a much broader portfolio other than they would have years ago. >> Yeah, for sure, absolutely. So, I mean, what's exciting is when you look at some of the architectures that we are building together, we're building reference architectures. So we're taking this work that we're doing together and we're building edge architectures that are suitable for small, medium, and you know, and large environments. And the common thread that pulls those three architectures together is that they are all enterprise grade architectures. And the architectures are used as frameworks. We don't always expect our customers to use them, you know, by the letter of the law, but they are a framework and, by which they can look to roll out scalable storage solutions. For example, like the Ceph, the SUSE Enterprise Storage solution that we collaborate with and have built such a reference architecture for. So this is, you know, it's built on Ceph architecture under the hood, but, you know, both ourselves and SUSE have brought a level of innovation, you know, into an arena, where you need cost, and you need low latency, and you need those types of things that we spoke about, I guess a moment ago, and into, you know, this new cloud native ecosystem that you just spoke to a few moments ago. So on the cloud native side, we're also heavily collaborating, and near co-engineering with SUSE on their CaaS technologies. So here it's really interesting to look at organizations like SAP and what we're doing with data hub and SAP, it's all part of the intelligent enterprise for SAP. This is where SUSE and Dell Tech together really get, you know, into looking at how we can extract information out of data, different data repositories. You know, you may have Oracle you may have, you know, you may have HDFS, you may have Excel and you're trying to extract data and information from that data, from those different siloed environments and the CaaS technology brings its, you know, its micro, capability to the forum in that regard, our hardware architecture is the perfect fit to, to bring that scalar platform, cloud native platform into the ecosystem. >> So, you know, Marc, you've got the CTO hat on for the European theater there. When we, we've been talking to SUSE, when they talk about their innovation, obviously, the community and open-source is a big piece of what they're doing. You were just walking through some of the cloud native pieces, give us what you're seeing when it comes to, you know, how is Dell helping drive innovation, you know, and how does that connects with what you're doing with partners like SUSE. >> Yeah, well, you know, innovation is massively, massively important. So there's a number of different factors that, you know, make up a very good innovation framework or a good innovation program. And at Dell Tech we happen to have what we believe to be an extraordinarily good innovation framework. And we have a lot of R&D budget assigned to helping innovate and we get the chance to go out and work with SUSE and other partners as well. What SUSE and Dell Tech do really, really well together is bring other partners and other technologies into the mix. And, you know, this allows us to innovate, co-innovate together as part of that framework that I just mentioned. So on the Dell Tech framework, we'll obviously, you know, take technologies, you know, we'll take them, perhaps into the office of the CTO, look at new, you know, emerging tech and look at, you know, more traditional tech, for example, and we will blend those together. And, you know, as part of the process and the innovation process, we generally take a view on some of the partners that we actually want to get involved in that process. And SUSE is very much one of those partners, as a matter of fact, right now, we're doing a couple of things with SUSE, one in the labs in Walldorf in Germany, where we're looking at high availability solution that we're trying to develop and optimize there right now at this point in time. And another good example that I can think of at the moment is looking at how customers are migrating off, you know, older, more traditional platforms, they need to look at the cloud native world, they need look at how they can, platform for success in this cloud native world. And we're looking at how we can get smarter, I guess about migrating them from that, you know, extraordinarily stealthy world that they had been in the past but that needs to get from that stealthy world into an even stealthier scalable world that is, that is cloud native world. >> Yeah, Marc, you talk about customers going through these transformations, I wonder if you can help connect the dots for us as to how these types of solutions fit into customers overall cloud strategies. So, you know, obviously, you know, Dell has broad portfolio, a lot of different pieces that are on the cloud, you know, I know there's a long partnership between Dell and SUSE and like SAP solutions, we've been looking at how those modernize so, you know, where does cloud fit in and we'd love any of kind of the European insights that you can give on that overall cloud discussion. >> Yeah, sure, so, again, ourselves and SUSE go back on, in history, you know, on the cloud platforming side, I mean, we've collaborated on developing a cloud platform in the past as well. So we had an OpenStack platform that we both collaborated on and you know, it was very successful for both of us. Where I'm seeing a lot of the requirement in this multicloud world that we're kind of living in right now, is the ability to be able to build a performant scalable platform that is going to be able to respond in the cloud native ecosystem. And that is going to be able to traverse workloads from on-prem to off-prem and from different cloud platforms with different underlying dependencies there. And that's really the whole aspiration, I guess, of this open cloud ecosystem. How do we get workloads to traverse across, across those types of domain. And the other is bringing the kind of, you know, performance that's expected out of these new workloads that are starting to emerge in the cloud native spaces. And as we start to look to data and extract information from data, we are also looking to do so in an extraordinary, accurate and in an extraordinary performant way and having the right kind of architecture underneath that is absolutely, absolutely essential. So I mentioned, you know, SAP's data hub a little earlier on, that's a really, really good example. As is, a matter of fact, SAP's Leonardo framework so, you know, my background is HPC, right? So, I will always look to how we can possibly architect to get the compute engineering as close to the data sources as possible as we can. And that means having to, in some way get out of these monolithic stacks that we've been used to over the last, you know, for a number of decades into a more horizontally scaled out kind of architecture. That means landing the right architecture into those environments, being able to respond, you know, in a meaningful way that's going to ultimately drive value to users and for the users and for the providers of the services, who are building these type of, these type of ecosystems. Again, you know, as I said, you know, data hub, and some of the work that Dell Tech are doing with the CaaS platform is absolutely, you know, perfectly positioned to address those types of, those types of problems and those types of challenges. On the other side, as I mentioned, the, you know, the story solutions that we're doing with SUSE are really taking off as well. So I was involved in a number of years ago in the Ceph program on the Irish government network and, so these would have been very big. And one of the earliest to be honest, Ceph firm I was involved with probably around five, six years ago, perhaps. And the overlying architecture, funnily enough, was, as you probably have guessed by now was SUSE Enterprise. And here we are today building, you know, entire, entire Ceph scale out storage solutions with SUSE. So yeah, what we're seeing is an open ecosystem, a scalable ecosystem and a performant ecosystem that needs to be able to respond and that's what the partnership with SUSE is actually bringing. >> So, Marc, I guess the last thing I'd like to ask you is, you know, we're all dealing with the, the ripple effects of what are happening with the COVID-19 global pandemic. >> Sure. >> You know, I know I've seen online lots that Dell is doing, I'm wondering what is the impact that, you know, you're seeing and anything specific regarding, you know, how this impact partnerships and how, you know, tech communities come together in these challenging times? >> Yeah, that's a great question to end on, Stu. And I think it's times like we're living through at the moment when we see, you know, the real potential of, I guess of human and machine collaboration when you think of the industry we're in, when you think of some of the problems that we're trying to solve. Here we are, a global pandemic, we have a problem that's distributed by its very nature, and I'm trying to find patterns, I guess, I'm trying to model, you know, for the treatment of, you know, COVID-19 is something that's very, very close to our heart. So we're doing a lot on the technology side where we're looking to, as I said, model for treatment but also use distributed analytical architectures to collaborate with partners in order to be able to, you know, contribute to the effort of finding treatments for COVID-19. On the commercial side of things then Dell Tech are doing a huge amount so, you know, we're, for instance, we're designing a, we're designing a financial model or framework, if you will, where our customers and our partners have, you know, can take our infrastructure and our partners infrastructure and those collaborations that we spoke about today. And they can land them into their ecosystem with pretty much zero percent finance. And so it's kind of a, it's an opportunity where, you know, we're taking the technology and we're taking the capability to land that technology into these ecosystems at a very, very low cost, but also give organizations the breadth and opportunity to consume those technologies without having to worry about, you know, ultimately paying up front they can start to look at the financial model that will suit them and that will, that will, that will, hopefully, accelerate their time, their time to market, trying to solve some of these problem that we've been speaking about. >> Well, Marc, thank you so much for the updates. Definitely good to hear about the technology pieces as well as some of these impacts that will have a more global impact. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Stu, my pleasure. Thank you, take care and stay safe. >> Thanks, same to you. All right, I'm Stu Miniman, back with lots more covered from SUSECON Digital '20. Thank you, for always, for watching theCUBE. (gentle music)

>> From around the globe, it's "theCUBE" with coverage of SUSECON Digital. Brought to you by SUSE. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman and this is CUBE's coverage of SUSECON Digital '20. Happy to welcome back to the program one of our CUBE alumni, Alan Clark, he is in the CTO office of SUSE. He works on emerging technologies and open source. Sits on many of the boards for many of those open source organizations. Alan, nice to chat with you. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks for the invitation. I appreciate the opportunity. It's always fun to chat with you, Stu. >> All right, so Alan, you know, open source of course, you know, had a broad impact on the industry. Lots of talk. You know, we talk about soft breeding the world, the impact of open source. Haas on software. Give us, you know, start us a little bit kind of the state of the state as to what you're seeing broadly when it comes to. >> You know, I'm just, I keep, I enjoy this industry, 'cause it's just booming. I got into open source a long time ago, before my hair was gray, and I just can't, it just continues to surprise me and amaze me at how much it's grown. And even from, not just as projects, right? Those continue to exponentially grow, but think about the adoption, right? And from SUSE's perspective, we've got critical mission infrastructure running on open source and that is just totally amazing, right? And they've got aerospace manufacturing firms, Fortune 100s, Fortune 500s, Fortune 50s, the world's largest banks, four or five of the world's largest banks are running on SUSE Linux, right? Automotive vendors, 12 of the 15 largest automotive vendors are running on open source, running on SUSE Linux, and 10 of the largest telecommunications firms are running on SUSE, and it just goes to show that open source is really growing and is being adopted and used by critical infrastructure for the world. Particularly in these troubling days, right? >> Yeah, I mean, Alan, I've always loved diggin' into the data, you know? I haven't followed it for quite as long as you, but I've been involved for comin' up on 20 years now, and you think back 15 or 20 years it was somebody in the back room contributing some code in their spare time when they have it. When I look at the state of open source today, you mentioned lots of enterprises are using it, but lots of enterprises are contributing to it, and it's not necessarily somebody in their spare time doing it, but more and more it part of my job is leveraging and contributing back, upsource to what's happening there, so how are you seeing that? How does that impact the overall governance of open source? >> So, that's a very good question, 'cause the amount of change is huge, right? So these open source foundations have grown very large and the number of people that are contributing to them, not just in code, but in ideas, in best practices and so forth has exponentially grown, and it's amazing to see that. Plus, I guess the other part of it that I really enjoy is it's gone global, right? It used to be these projects were kind of regional, and perhaps North America to Europe, but it's, they've gone global, so these larger projects'll have 170, 180 countries that are involved. That's truly amazing. And the thing that I find very interesting, particularly given the pandemic era, we're all sitting at our homes right now. As open source developers, we're very used to this environment. We're working from home. We're scattered around the globe. We're used to working in different time zones, different geographies, and we know how to communicate and work together, so having this distance and lack of an office is actually not that much of an impediment for open source. So it's actually kind of to their advantage. >> Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. I'd done lots of interviews with developer communities and remote work is just the way they do things. Contributing code is very much an asynchronous nature of what they were doing. Alan, I love you talked about the global nature. One of the things, I was looking forward to being at this event in person was we were going to go to Dublin, you know, great city. (Alan laughs) Love to travel. When we cover a European show, it's always, "Okay, what is different "about different geographies "compared to North America?" You know, you talk about cloud adoption in general tends to be a little bit higher in North America. Any data or anecdotes that you have globally as to how open source is maybe a little bit different and culturally thought of from organizations that might be based in Europe, Asia, Latin America, or the like? >> Yeah, that's to me one of the strengths of these communities now is the difference in perspectives that you get from the different geographies, right? From Europe to Asia and so forth, and it sometimes surprises you, right? You get so used to a few vendors maybe dominating a certain area, and what you find out is they may be strong in a certain geography, but they're not globally. And as other developers and community members and users come in and start talking about their needs and their use cases, you find that their perspective is different than yours and it's kind of that "Ah ha" moment of "Oh, we need to make sure "the software works for everybody "and fits their need." And I guess the second part of that would be, you know, with this pandemic, it's causing the whole industry dynamics to change, and businesses are finding that they've got to rapidly adapt and change, and open source is one of the ways they're able to do that, right? Our customer sentiments are changing. Their purchasing habits are obviously changed. The way we shop, the way we do business, the way we're meeting people, right? We're all doing it digitally now. That's changing the services that companies need to deliver. And one of the powers of open source is being able to provide that to them and deliver those services very rapidly to them. And another dynamic here that I'm finding is interesting is customers, or consumers of open source, the businesses that are consuming open source are realizing that with these times, you know, you've got to have multiple sources for your supply chain. We have a lot more discussion about being nationalized instead of globalized, you know, when borders shut down and you can't get your supplies from another country, where are you going to get them, right? So those kinds of discussions change your source of supplies and so forth, so you have to diversify a little bit, and that's causing new types of services that are going to be created, needed. The beauty of open source, though, is it's global, and so I can get access to it whether I'm here in Salt Lake City or I'm sitting up in Dublin, wherever I'm at. And it's awesome. It's just amazing. >> Excellent, Alan. So, you know, you talked about some of the impact of what the global pandemic happening. They can leverage remote work. Open source is something that they can get ready access to. I'm curious if there's any other things in the community, you know, rallying points that you're seeing, any good stories or anecdotes that you might be able to share. >> So, I guess the other aspect of this I find extremely encouraging is, open source is amazing for individuals, not just businesses, right, to consume it, but me as an individual to learn new ideas, new technologies, try things out. And it's a great opportunity right now, particularly for home bound to go out and learn new ideas, learn about new concepts, new technologies, learn about Kubernetes, learn about containers, learn about rapid software development, right? And SUSE's actually caught onto this. This is one of the things I find really cool is they've got a couple things that are going on. First, they've created a sandbox out there where I, as an individual, for free can go out there and give rapid application development a try. It's being at home, often I don't have the full equipment that I would have at the office, right? So getting an environment set up, having the equipment and access that I need to get an environment set up to try something out, you know, like Kubernetes or application development. I may not have that at my home. So SUSE's set up some sandboxes out there where, as a developer, I can go out and give SUSE's application platform development a try. It's easy, it's all set up for me. I can go out there and I can play. Try out new concepts, see what Kubernetes is about, see what rapid development is about. And it minimizes my, you know, the task and the equipment that I need to be able to do that. The second part of that is they've opened up a lot of their online training courses for free for developers as well and operators. So it's a great time for, we're stuck at home, it's a great time to take advantage of these resources and learn more about open source. >> Great, yeah, absolutely. Alan, I spoke to your CEO, Melissa, and we talked about the importance of the developer communities. You mentioned the sandbox there. I'm curious, anything else you've seen, kind of the changing dynamic about how developers integrate with the business. One of the constant themes we talk about is IT isn't just something that's on the side, but is a clear partner with the business and often is a driver for the business, so the developers often need some education, they need communication. What do you see and how are the development communities changing? >> Oh, so I think a great part of this, this year is all the events that are going virtual. So we've got tons of resources available within these communities and through companies like SUSE, as we just talked about, and we also have these events that are going virtual, so all this content is now becoming readily accessible. I hear often from developers saying, "Well, my company doesn't give us much "for money for traveling to these events "and conferences and so forth." Now that they're all going virtual it's given 'em great access to amazing materials, and the beauty of these events is that a lot of the material is framed around helping you understand how to develop open source, how to become a part of the community, and then also about what this technology is about, where it's heading. So you, particularly as an IT organization, I get a great insight as to where the technology's going. What's the future look like? What are the ideas that are being formed by all these individuals from around the world? What's their perspectives? And then I can turn, and tying that to the business, is I can take that and take that to my business and say, "Look, here's where the technology is heading. "Here's how we can use it to enhance our business "and deliver better services to our customer." So it's a great opportunity this year. >> Yeah, you're right, Alan. There's often that gap between the people that can attend and what content is available to everyone else, and, you know, seems to be opening up. Everything from, you know, it funny, Disney is giving away the recipes for some of the things that they're doing through the conferences, typically free to attend and on demand soon after doing. All right, Alan, you're in the emerging technologies group. So, last thing I want to ask is give us a little bit look forward. What is your group looking at or the communities that you're involved in? What are some of the things that are exciting you and your peers? >> So, SUSE expanding from the edge to the cloud, to the core, right? And so we're covering things all the way from the gamut. Lot of new exciting stuff happening out on the edge with IoT and with edge services. Pretty excited about that area. SUSE's had a lot of experience in that space, particularly if you look at manufacturing providing, helping them, those businesses, the manufacturing firms meet their SLAs. Had a lot of experience in the retail space, around point of service. That, of course, is pivoting to self-service, to frictionless shopping, that types of stuff, so it's pretty exciting in those areas. So there's a lot going on in the edge. Healthcare, SUSE's been very involved, embedded in a lot of healthcare devices. That business will continue to grow, so we're seeing a lot about, on the edge. We talked a bit about rapid development. So back at the core and the cloud we're trying to make that a seamless experience so you can push those workloads, build those workloads in a containerized, micro-service manner, and distribute those pieces where it makes sense, right? So we talk about artificial intelligence gathering the data out on the edge, doing a bit of filtering and processing, moving that up to the core and the cloud, being able to mine that data, learn intelligently, then orchestrate your services, orchestrate your core appropriately, right? To meet those demands that your customers are putting on you. There's just a lot going on. We got containers. We've got hybrid cloud. We've got multicloud. We got intelligent orchestration. Then we could go on and talk a ton, we could talk for 30 minutes just about what's happening in the data space. So there's a lot to look forward to when it comes to open source and the innovation that's happening out there. >> All right, well, Alan Clark. Great to catch up with you. Thank you so much for giving us a little bit of vision. >> Thank you, Stu. >> Where we've been, and where we're going. >> Thank you very much. >> All right, I'm Stu Miniman and stay tuned for more coverage from SUSECON Digital '20. Thank you for watching "theCUBE." (calm electronic music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with coverage of SUSECON Digital, brought to you by SUSE. >> Hi and welcome back. I'm Stuart Miniman. And this is theCUBE coverage of SUSECON Digital '20. Getting to the end of a full day wall-to-wall coverage. We've been rather than everyone getting together in Dublin where we talk to SUSE executives, their customers and their partners where they are around the globe, happy to welcome to the program. Rachel Cassidy, she is the Senior Vice President of Global Channel and Cloud. Thank you so much for joining us. >> Thank you for having me a pleasure to be here. >> All right, so love getting to talk a little bit about the channel, talk about the whole go to market piece, maybe you start a little bit if you would, Channel and Cloud, how do those two go together? Talk to us a little bit about what your organization does? >> Okay, sure. That's great. So I think this is something new for SUSE. So at the beginning of this calendar year, we actually saw a lot of synergy between how you're going to market with our full end to end ecosystem, and really pulling in all of the different partner type-- around with supporting our customer, digital transformation to the Cloud. So that allowed us to pull all of the alliances together that really support end to end that transformation. So under this charter, we're basically looking to fulfill and support our customers, regardless of what route they want to use to help them through this time of digital transformation, enabling them in whatever type of Cloud environment is best suited for their business, whether it's hybrid, or completely public or born in the Cloud, etc. So that's what our team is is focused to do. >> Excellent, interesting to see how those pieces are coming together. Of course, one of the big discussions is, moving more towards that cloud model we've been saying for years, you know, public Cloud really is that bar that everything gets managed to add everything from the consumption model to price and everything and the like. I know one of the pieces is that you have a new partner program, could you lay out, what's changing? How does that all work? Well, what does it mean that how SUSE is going to work with that ecosystem? >> Great. Yeah. So we're very excited about this. We're releasing or unfolding slowly our SUSE one partner program. And this is one holistic partner across all of SUSEs. I think historically, we had some different programs that address certain go to market routes or what have you. And we're pulling that all together, so we have this larger all encompassing offering. Already today, we've just soft launched a brand new partner portal, so there'll be easier look and feel and ability to use our systems, Coming soon, we'll also have an updated Learning Management System behind the scenes, so you'll have easier and more access to different types of training to support the different roles as you going to build out your panel in cloud strategy within your organization, and all of the supporting services and solutions that support that as well. The other big things that we're doing, and this is a preview of what I mean later towards the end of the summer, so this isn't released yet, but I'm giving you that precursor here. Is a different approach. So we're not going to categorize our partners by I'm an IHV or I'm an ISV, what we're going to do is focus on specialization. So how to sell Are you a seller of a solution? Are you a builder? So you're building integrated solutions that other partners in the downstream channel can sell? Are you a managed service provider or services provider or CSP? Yeah, so we'll have those different areas of specialization. But then our partners can opt into one or more and make their business more impactful to their customers and we'll support them along that journey. >> Sounds like that that move is to kind of align more with what you're seeing customers, I'm assuming. What do you expect that seems to have a ripple effect the SUSE's business? >> Yeah, I think it allows us to have more of an impact with our customers make our end and offerings more strategic, and also allows us to really leverage and create relationships across the full partner ecosystem. So it's not just the a SUSE's specific solution, but we're looking at what are the use cases that our customers are trying to solve? And how do we put the different parts and pieces of the ecosystem together to help them get to that next state of success, whatever that looks like for them, and oftentimes that's the trifecta of a multi partner solution. That then we can package bundle support, and enable our partner ecosystem to support customers on as well. >> Excellent, Rachel, how are you seeing some of the changes in that ecosystem impacting what you're doing? We talked a bit about Cloud, AI, of course, is a big discussion point for the event this week. So how are some of those larger technology trends, impacting your channel and go to market? >> Yeah, I mean, the first piece is I think the different partners are changing their businesses, there were traditional IAT, they're looking and expanding their offerings into more services or MSP type offerings. So they're looking to really engage and support their customers through that digital transformation. And that's what the partner program and how we're aligning our organization is in support (mumbles) And then maybe on the technology roadmap, we're looking to move up the stack and be more more impactful with some of those application-driven solutions. So MLN, AI, etc. And how we can be a bigger part of that and enable our partners to be successful in that as well. And then on top of that, I think the other compelling factor that we have to offer is through source initiative. I think especially now in this marketplace, we're seeing a lot of more, you know, it was already becoming mainstream, if you will, but now with COVID-19, it is a catalyst for innovation. And we are all about through open source opportunities and offerings. And that's what we're also enabling our partner ecosystem and our end customers jointly together around so that they can also be successful. >> Yeah, I've had some great conversations covering SUSECON, with your partner ecosystem, talking about the digital transformation, talking about the date. Is their framework, are there some new training that you're rolling out? Maybe you can expand a little bit on that, that digital transformation discussion, how you make sure that you've got a holistic solution for customers between SUSE and it's in an ecosystem. >> Yeah, great question. So one of the things that we're doing is, we're calling them to the one partner stack. And they're modularized, integrated solutions stack. And we're doing these basically top down and bottom up. So from a market demand perspective, where should we be playing? What are the partners that we should be interlocking with to create those end to end solutions that meet high market demand opportunities and challenges that our customers face today. And at the same time, we're also building and defining these from the ground up. So what are the assets that we're seeing from the field without any marketing support or anything just kind of proactively coming through us, help us solve this problem, and pulling those parts and pieces together, and then also making them very modularized. So that they can be almost like a LEGO Block, if you will. So you can plug and play the pieces that are relevant to your specific solutions. And in the partner world, if you have your own storage offering or whatnot, you can use that or you can use art. So it's very modular. And it also really helps to address very tailored civic solutions. We're starting these kind of a horizontal play. So looking at some of these new technologies, like you mentioned, what are we doing in AI veteran to help support that partner ecosystem and an end to end solution. But then the next wave of this is, what can we do more of that repeatable and scalable to help our healthcare providers or automotive opportunities as well. So the next iteration, our neck neck, will be to have these solutions to one partner stack, if you will, for vertical offerings as well. And then if we're sorry, you also mentioned framing. So all of this it's not just building it in the background. We're doing it in the field, with our customers, with our partners and then all of the different supporting components that you need to be successful from how to support, do it yourself marketing tips so that we can empower our partners to build this into their solutions or services are also part of this. And then enablement is a key table stakes for all of it. And not just on the the parts and pieces but the end to end offering. And also looking at that role base. Like what do I need to really help my customer understand the value of this end to end solution all the way down to the support technician or the deployment architect. >> Excellent, so Rachel is both in the keynote and the conversation that I had with Melissa, there was really a celebration of SUSE being fully independent now, for a year. I'm curious what impact that has on the ecosystem, and how does just being an independent open source company impact the relationship that you have? >> I think we've seen a nice uplift and excitement and opportunity from just that. So when people choose or go or embrace an open source option is because they want choice and we are now the largest independent open source company in the world, and we're offering advice and flexibility. And all those values that are key in the open source, culture and world are part of SUSE's culture, which I also think is really important and it resonates through our partner ecosystem, but also then extends to our customers. >> Excellent, I want to give you any final words you want to share with the ecosystem as to what they should be looking for, you give a little bit of a hint for some things coming out in the summer. But final takeaways from SUSECON. >> Yeah, our logo or tagline, if you will, is the power of many. And this isn't something that any one of us can do on our own. And I think especially in this days, environment, all the challenges that we're facing, we're really seeing people come together. And that is the definition of open source. And I've been in this environment for quite some time. I drank the Kool Aid a long, long time ago, and it's important to us. So for the partner ecosystem, like they say, the power of many and work together as one. And I think that's kind of the the message that resonates, and we want to make working with us, whether you're a customer or a partner, easier to go to market, easier to be innovative and find those solutions together. And, part of our overarching mentality is, to simplify, modernize and accelerate. So everything we do are under those three pillars, which I think is really exciting. And I'm excited to be here and be a part of this, especially at this time. >> Well, Rachel Cassidy, thank you so much for updates, I think perfect note to end things on community, obviously something that a big focus at the show, as well as something that is near and dear to the heart of theCUBE team. So it's been a pleasure for us to participate in SUSECON this year and definitely look forward to many more SUSE events in the future. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Stuart thanks for having me. Have a great day. >> All right, make sure to check out theCUBE dot net for all the interviews that we have. That, well, it shows we will be at future. I'm Stuart Miniman, and thank you for joining us for theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE conversation. >> Hi everybody, this is Dave Vellante with theCUBE, and welcome to this special CUBE conversation. I've been running a CEO series for the last several weeks, talking to leaders about how they're dealing with the COVID-19 crisis and really, trying to understand how they've been navigating through and communicating to their employees, and their customers. I'm really excited to have Melissa Di Donato here, she's the CEO of SUSE. Melissa, great to see you again. >> Great to see you, thank you for having me. >> You're very welcome, and you and I met last September and one of the reasons I've been looking forward to this interview, I'm a fanboy. I threw the kitchen sink at you last year, and you batted everything out of the park. We were talking about digital transformation, digital business, and you were really one of my favorite guests of the year. So, >> Thank you. >> Talk about kitchen sink. This COVID-19 thing came out of nowhere, when did you see it coming? And what was your first move as a leader? >> Well, so for us, we had a really unique position, Dave, because we have a number of people staying in China, so we've got more than 250 employees sitting in China, so for us COVID-19 is not new, we've been dealing with this for quite a long time, since December when first started becoming ill in China, realizing that there was an issue. As of the seventh of January we had to move very quickly when China went onto lockdown, we had to find a way to get our employees to be able to work from home very quickly, and taking a couple of hundred of employees that are sitting in China and being able to empower them and enable them to work from home very quickly, nearly overnight, was no short task, so we took all of that learning back in January, and then we were able to respond as the countries fell ill, and the government requirements went in place around the world since then. So for us, this is nothing new, we were really fortunate that we had the mechanisms in place to handle the pandemic first in China, now as it came across Europe, and then of course into the US. >> Yeah so, you had the canary in the coalmine, so to speak, Well before >> Kind of, something like that >> Yeah, well before you had to start making decisions about SUSECon in Dublin, which was scheduled to be in March, so that was your other big decision point, wasn't it? >> Yeah, it was really difficult for us, because obviously, we had customers, we had partners, all wanted to come to Dublin, in fact, we were scheduled to be there together as well, and we had to give them enough time to be able to make alternate arrangements, but at the same time, we had to wait to see what the government was going to do in Ireland, because obviously that has a very big impact on the structure, the cost, et cetera. But we made a early decision, as early as we could, and that was the beginning part of March, to make the decision to unfortunately move it to a digital event, which was not an easy solution. The first time in our history, bringing a big, annual conference that's physical and in person, to a virtual event that's in digital, it wasn't an easy over-the-night kind of process and decision to make, so it was a hard one, but we're really confident, and May 20th is the announcment and the start of our SUSECon digital event, so not too long away from where we are now. >> Melissa, how have you altered, enhanced, your communications to your employees, your team, and ultimately your customers and partners? Have you increased the cadence? How have you altered? >> Yeah, so much so. I do a video with my team that I announce and push out every Monday, so every Monday I give them a business update, I tell them what's happening in the industry, what's happening with SUSE, what's happening with our customers. That happens every week, once a week. That's for every employee, and its a video call, something like this, almost. Then what we do is weekly updates on the great things that are happening around SUSE. You know, we've got a lot of amazing employees here in the open source community, but also employees as well. We've had employees in Italy who created virtual classrooms for their employees, we had an employee in the US who dedicated 30% of his bonus to give back to his local school, he's bought lunches for all the people at his hospital locally, we've had our entire Nuremberg, Germany office give all of their lunch vouchers to the homeless in Germany, so we also like to publicize all the good work that all of our employees are doing, to give back to their local communities and globally, so the cadence has definitely been increased. We just ran a survey this last week that closed yesterday. We got very, very favorable results. And that was definitely geared towards communication, no more so than now, do the employees and the customers need to be aware of what's going on. You probably feel the same thing, and through me and probably loads of other interviews, know that we're not a magician, we're not a scientist here that could predict necessarily the future. I think the scientists themselves don't even know what's going to happen, but we're doing our best to take outlook, and take a lot of concerted approach to educate our employees and our customers with what they can expect. Now for us, I'm in the very fortunate position that before COVID-19, 38% of our employees work remotely, so working from home for us is quite easy, it's quite natural for our community and our open source community as well as a whole. So for us to make that transition, we were uninterrupted in way of dealing with our customers. I've been communicating with them as well, through emails and phone calls and other means, pretty much at least once a month, if not every other week or so, to communicate what we're doing for them, but again, you said it, being proactive and being communicative right now, it's never been more important. >> So you, it sounds like, are maintaining productivity. A lot of organizations are actually seeing a productivity hit, and they're having trouble getting work-from-home infrastructure up and spun a bit. People joke on Twitter that's the new tissue paper, you can't, I don't know what it's like in London, but you can't get toilet paper (laughs) on the shelves here, so work from home infrastructure, laptops, VDI, et cetera, But it sounds like you really haven't taken a productivity hit, it's sort of a natural progression for you. >> Yeah, you know when we met last September, we talked about the importance of open source, and we've been a business for nearly 30 years, and we've always run our business in open source community, and that is a community that's obviously geographically dispersed all over the world, so people have been working from home, working in their community, being transparent and collaborative, regardless of where they sit, so from an innovation perspective, we've had no impact to our business, so being able to work from anywhere, across any boundary, has been been uninterrupted, so that's been great. 99% of our workforce are now working remotely from home, versus up from 38% pre-COVID, it doesn't change the fact that things like hardware and software and the means that they need to actually operate from home is difficult, so we've made the concerted effort, for example, to make sure our employees in Germany have the capability to bring home their desk chairs, to bring home their monitors, to bring home their machines to set them up with the ability to be able to work from home. Building on the experience from China, we learned we needed to provision early, so what we did in the beginning part of February was to begin to procure software and hardware that enabled us to have a bench of technology that we could utilize, in case we had this pandemic run wild to support our employees to work from home, so I'm very happy to say we were well prepared. In our survey, we asked the question how prepared are you to be able to work from home? And it was extremely high, best practice in way of benchmarking for any employee survey, to be able to provide them the productivity tools necessary to be able to work from home, so we're very, very proud of that. >> I want to ask you about the recovery, nobody knows, we've never seen this >> No >> Forced shut down of the economy before. Saw Bill Gates this morning on TV, saying he thinks it's really through June that we're going to have to live with this, I know the president of the United States is saying we'd like to happen before that, but assuming there is a comeback, lets say June, start to bring back the economy in waves, how do you see open source in a downturn, some prolonged downturn, months, maybe as much as a year or even more, how do you see open source playing there? >> Yeah, that's a good question, I'm glad you asked it. I think that as the pandemic continues, and any crisis for that matter, open source adoption is going to accelerate, there's no doubt. There's a huge pressure we're all going to face, even those successful businesses like us here at SUSE, we're going to have to go under some crunch and consideration around cost. Open source adoption will accelerate digital transformation efforts, and will definitely speed up organizations to respond to the crisis, because they're able to utilize all the technology innovation, and standardization of Linux and other open source technologies, from anywhere. Whether it's on-premise, the cloud, utilizing Edge, they're going to look for innovations in constant uptick whilst gaining cost-saving at the same time. There's no better place to achieve that, besides being in an open source community, so we're very fortunate, I never would've predicted a pandemic, if I had I'd be a multi-millionaire, would've played the lotto by now, nonetheless, I think there's no place I'd rather be for sure, and I wouldn't want to run any other company besides an open source business right now, because we're seeing an uptick rather than having a decline. >> You know, I want to ask you about culture, because you've been in SUSE as the CEO less than a year, inside of a year, and you really have always focused on culture, you know, CEOs obviously got to worry about growth, you got to worry about profitability, productivity and the like, but I want to actually pull up something that I found on LinkedIn, it was from one of your newer employees, new to SUSE, he said "my first month here, amazing colleagues, high amount of trust, lots of collaboration, willing to help each other succeed, giving back to the less fortunate in the community, high amount of respect for diversity, amazing values, leadership is open, honest, trend-setting, industry defining, really smart, and genuinely superior." Wow, I mean >> (Melissa laughs) >> He said, "in short, best organization I've ever contributed my efforts to and been a part of." Your leadership, whether it's diversity, openness, transparency, you really have set from day one a cultural foundation, which I think is playing out well for you right now, but I wonder if you could talk about the culture that you're trying to drive with SUSE. >> Yeah I mean, wow I did read that post, and that's life -changing I think for leaders like myself, when you have employees that feel the sense of urgency around the criticality that they play, and the role they play in the company, you can't ask for more than that, really genuinely, and I think that when I came, I took it personal to make sure that we led the company leading with people first. We're probably one of the very few companies in the world that have one trademark, and our trademark is our SUSE Chameleon. We don't have any other trademarks or patents on any of our technology, because it is open. So the only thing I have is the people. The link to the world, and this business being successful, is our people, and there inevitably lies the importance that's pertaining to their culture. And I think that because we're community-based and open source, it's really important that we continually collaborate, that we're constantly giving back and giving insight and giving support in the community, and that needs to transcend the community and be living every single day in our company. You mentioned something in that post, which is the philanthropic side of who I am, I believe very whole-heartedly in the responsibility we carry as CEOs, executives, as companies, to give back to our community. When I started nearly year ago, I instituted the Month of Giving, which happens to be May, in conjunction with one day off every year for every single employee to give back to their local communities, or a charity of their choice. Now that's proven very well, particularly now. Folks are taking time off, they're donating their time to local hospitals, they're creating that sense of community giving and care that again, bleeds itself into the fabric of what this culture is. On top of that, recently you may have read the press, I'm sure you have, about us giving any medical device supplier, or any medical device, and not just manufacturer, but institution for research of COVID-19, we're giving them free software and support to run and develop technologies associated with solving this pandemic. And that is truly a gift, I feel incredibly privileged to be able to give back because you again well know we supply all the operating systems to many of our really important medical devices, like CAT scan machines and mammogram machines, in fact, probably most of the machines being used in the US today to combat many diseases are running on a SUSE operating system. We want to offer that back, again, to the community. The employees went wild over the fact that we were being able to give back on a big scale, to solve a problem like this, so I think when it comes down to who we are and what our culture is Dave, people are the most important thing to me. I did an interview recently, and they said you know, going from a CEO that's very focused on sales and like you said earlier, very focused on outcome and deliverables and forecasts and budgets and EBITDA, is that still the case? And I have to say confidently, no that's not the thing that keeps me up at night now. What keeps me up at night now, and how I wake up every morning is wondering about the health of my employees. We had a couple of employees, one that was quite ill in Italy, we were phoning him and calling and emailing him from his hospital bed, and that's what's really keeping me going, what's inspiring me to lead this incredible company, is the people and the culture that they've built that I'm honoring and taking forward, as part of the open source value system. >> Well I think those metrics, those business performance metrics, what I've learned is they're actually a symptom of a great culture, and so I'm really excited and amazed at what you're building there, and thank you. You know, in this day and age you hear, at least prior to COVID, you heard a lot of attacks on technology companies and big tech, on billionaires, and it's really refreshing to see technology companies stepping up, you mentioned the example of medical device, there are many, many examples, and so thank you for that, really appreciate it. >> Thank you too. >> Dave: All right Melissa, great having you, I hope we can talk again leading up to SUSECon virtual slash digital, thanks so much >> (Melissa laughs) >> For coming on theCUBE, great to see you again. >> It's been great to >> Stay safe. >> Thank you very much for having me again as well and inviting me back, I look forward to seeing you next month. >> All right ditto, and thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE, and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>>Live from Las Vegas, you covering splunk.com 19 brought to you by Splunk.. >>Okay. Welcome back everyone. That's the cubes live coverage in Las Vegas for Splunk's dot com user conference 10 years is their anniversary. It's cubes seventh year. I'm John Farah, your host with a great guest here. Joe Partlow, CTO of rely AQuESTT recently on the heels of vying thread care and Marcus, Carrie and team. Congratulations. They'd come on. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a been a fun month. So obviously security. We love it. Let's take a minute to talk about what you guys do. Talk about what your company does that I've got some questions for you. Yeah. So you know, obviously with the increasing cyber threats, uh, you know, uh, security companies had a lot or customers had a lot of tools. Uh, it's easy to get overwhelmed, um, really causes a lot of confusion. So really what we're trying to do is we have a platform called gray matter that is really kind of how we deliver security model management, which what that means is that's bringing together people, process technology in a way that's easy to kind of make sense of all the noise. >>Um, yeah, there's, there a, a lot of features in there that would help monitor the health, uh, the incident response, the hunt, um, any kind of features that you would need from a security. So you guys are a managed service, you said four? >> Yeah. Yeah, a different, a little different than a traditional MSSP. We um, you'll work very close with, uh, the customers. Uh, we work in their environment, we're working side by side with them, uh, in their tools and we're really maturing and getting better visibility in their environment to get that MSSP for newer. >> Right. That's where you guys are. M S S VP >> on steroids. A little bit different. >> Alright. Well you guys got some things going on. You got a partnership with Splunk for the dotcom sock. Oh yeah. Talk about that with set up out here. And what's it showing? Yeah, that's been a great experience. >>Uh, we, we work very close with the Splunk, uh, team. Uh, we monitored Splunk corporate, uh, from a work with skirt team monitoring them. Uh, so when.call came around, it was kind of a natural progression of Hey, uh, you know, Joel and team on their side said, Hey, how do we kind of build up the team and do a little bit extra and I'll see any way that we can help secure.com. Uh, it was really cool. I give credit to the team, both teams, uh, standing up a, uh, new Splunk install, getting everything stood up really in the last few weeks, uh, making sure that every, uh, everybody at the pavilion and the conference in general is protected and we're watching for any kind of threat. >> So it's, it's been great working with the Splunk team. So is that normal procedure that the bad guys want to target? >>The security congresses? This is gonna make a state visit more of graffiti kind of mentality. It's an act kind of lift, fun, malicious endpoints that they want to get out of here. Oh yeah. There's, there's a little bit of a, you know, let's do it for fun and mess with the conference a little bit. So we'll want to make sure that, that that's what happened. So is my end point protected here? My end points, my phone and my laptop. Uh, not the user specific but any of the conference provided demo stations. Okay. So or structure for the equipment, not me personally. You are not monitoring your personal okay. I give up my privacy years ago. Yes. This is a interesting thing to talk about working with spunk because you know, I hear all the time and again we're looking at this from an industry wide perspective. >>I hear we've got a sock, they got a slot. So these socks are popping up yesterday. Operation centers. What is, what is the state of the art for that now? Is it best practice to have a mega Monster's sock or is it distributed, is it decentralized? What's the current thinking around how to deploy Sox surgery operations center or centers? Yeah, we certainly grow with a decentralized model. We need to follow the sun. So we've got operations centers here in Vegas, Tampa and Dublin. Uh, really making sure that we've got the full coverage. Uh, but it is working very close with the Splunk socks. So they've got a phenomenal team and we work with them side by side. Uh, obviously we are providing a lot of the, uh, the tier one, tier two heavy lift, and then we escalate to Splunk team. They're obviously gonna know Splunk corporate better than we will. >>So, uh, we work very close hand in hand. So you guys acquired threat care and Marcus carries now in the office of CTO, which you're running. Yes. How is that going to shape rely a quest and the Europe business? >> Yeah, the acquisition has been extremely, uh, you know, uh, exciting for us. Uh, you know, after meeting Marcus, uh, I've known of Marcus, he's a very positive influence in the community, uh, but having worked with him, the vision for threat care and the vision for Lioncrest really closely aligned. So where we want to take, uh, the future of security testing, testing controls, making sure upstream controls are working, uh, where threats they're wanting to go for. That was very much with what we aligned more so it made sense to partner up. So, uh, very excited about that and I think we will roll that into our gray matter platform has another capability. >>Uh, gray matter, love the name by the way. I mean, first of all, the security companies have the best names or mission control gray matter, you know, red Canary, Canary in the coal mine. All good stuff. All fun. But you know, you guys work hard so I know the price gotta be good. I gotta ask you around the product vision around the customers and how they're looking at security because you know, it's all fun games. They'll, someone's hacking their business trash or this ransomware going on. Data protection has become a big part of it. What are customers telling you right now in terms of their, their fears and aspirations? What do they need? What's on the agenda? Guests for customers right now? Yeah. I think kind of the two biggest fears, um, and then the problems that we're trying to address is one, just a lack of visibility. >>Uh, customers have so many things on their network, a lot of mergers and acquisitions. So, uh, unfortunately with a lot of times the security team is the last one to know when something pops up. Uh, so anything that we can do to increase visibility and that and that, a lot of times we work very closely with Splunk or send that they have out to make sure that it happens. And then the other thing I think is, you know, most people want to get more proactive. Uh, you know, salmon logging by nature is very reactive. So when he tried to get out in front of those threats a little bit more, so anything that we can do to try to get more proactive, uh, may certainly going to be on their, their top of mind. Well, the machine learning toolkits, getting a lot of buzz here at the show, that's a really big deal. >>I think the other thing that I'm seeing I to get your reaction to is this concept of diverse data. That's my word, not Splunk's, but the idea of bringing in more data sets actually helps machine learning that's pretty much known by data geeks, but in making data addressable because data seems to be the one thing that is all doing a lot of the automation that's takes that headway heavy lift and also provides heavy lifting capabilities to set data up to look at stuff. So data is pretty critical. Data addressability data diversity, you got to have the data and it's gotta be addressable in real time and through tools like fabric search and other things. What's your reaction to that and thoughts around that? No, I agree 100%. Uh, you know, obviously most enterprise customers have a diverse set of data. So trying to search across those data sets, normalize that data, it's, it's a huge task. >>Um, but to get the visibility that we need, we really need to be able to search these multiple data sets and bring those into make sense. Whether you're doing threat hunting or responding to alerts. Um, or you need it from a compliance standpoint, being able to deal with those diverse data sets, uh, is is a key key issue. You know, the other thing I wanna get your thoughts on this one that we've been kind of commenting, I've kind of said a ticket position on this gonna from an opinion standpoint, but it's kind of obvious but it's not necessarily true. But my point is with the data volume going up so massive, that puts the tips, the scales and the advantage for the adversaries. Ransomware's a great example of it and you know, as little ransomware now is towns and cities, these ransomware attacks just one little vector, but with the data volume data is the surface area, not just devices. >>Oh yeah. So how is the data piece of it and the adversarial advantage, you think that that makes them stronger, more surface area? Yeah, definitely. And that's something that where we're leaning on machine learning for a lot is if you really kind of make sense of that data, a lot of times you want to baseline that environment and just find it what's normal in the environment, what's not normal. And once you to find that out, then we can start saying, all right, is this malicious or not? Uh, you know, some things that uh, yeah, maybe PowerShell or something and one environment is a huge red flag that Hey, we've been compromised in another one. Hey, that's just a good administrator automating his job. So making sense of that. Um, and then also just the sheer volume of data that we, that we see customers dealing with. >>Very easy to hide in if you're doing an attack, uh, from an adversary standpoint. So being able to see across that and make sure that you can at scale SyFy that data and find actionable event. You guys, I was just talking with a friend that I've known from the cloud, world, cloud native world. We're talking about dev ops versus the security operations and those worlds are coming together. There are more operational things than developer things, but yet CSOs that we talked to are fully investing in developer teams. So it's not so much dev ops dogma, if you will. But we gotta do dev ops, right? You know, see the CIC D pipeline. Okay, I get that. But developers play a critical role in this feature security architecture, but at the end of the day, it's still operations. So this is the new dev ops or sec ops or whatever it's called these days. >>What's your, how, how do customers solve this problem? Because it is operational, whether it's industrial IOT or IOT or cloud native microservices to on premise security practices with end points. I mean, I, the thing we see that, that kind of gets those teams the most success is making sure they're working with those teams. So having security siloed off by itself. Um, I think we've kind of proven in the past that doesn't work right? So get them involved with their development teams, get them involved with their net ops or, or, you know, sec ops teams, making sure they're working together so that security teams can be an enabler. Uh, they don't want to be the, uh, the team that says no to everything. Um, but at the end of the day, you know, most companies are not in the business of security. They're in the business of making widgets or selling widgets or whatever it is. >>So making sure that the security, yeah, yeah, that's an app issue. Exactly. Making sure that they're kind of involved in that life cycle so that, not that they can, you know, define what that needs to be, but at least be aware of, Hey, this is something we need to watch out for or get visibility into and, and keep the process moving. All right. Let's talk about Splunk. Let's set up their role in the enterprise. I'll see enterprise suite 6.0 is a shipping general availability. How are you guys deploying and optimizing Splunk for customers? What are some of the killer use cases that's there and new ones emerging? Yeah, we've, we provide, you know, really kind of three core areas. First one customers, you're one is obviously making sure that the platform is healthy. So a lot of times we'll go into a, a customer that, uh, you know, maybe they, they, there's one team has turned over or they rapidly expanded and, and in a quickly, you kind of overwhelming the system that's there. >>So making sure that the, the architecture is correct, maintained, patched, upgraded, and they're, they're really taking advantage of the power of Splunk. Uh, from an engineering standpoint. Uh, also another key area is building content. So as we were discussing earlier, making sure that we've got the visibility and all that data coming in, we've got to make sure that, okay, are we pursuing that data correctly? Are we creating the appropriate alerts and dashboards and reports and we can see what's going on. Um, and then the last piece is actually taking, you know, see you taking action on that. So, uh, from an incident response standpoint, watching those alerts and watching that content flyer and making sure that we're escalating and working with the customer security team, they'd love to get your thoughts. Final question on the, um, first of all, great, great insight. They'll, I love that. >>As customers who have personal Splunk, we buy our data is number one third party app for blogs work an app, work app workloads, and in cloud as well as more clients than you have rely more on cloud. AWS for instance, they have security hub, they're deploying some of this to lean on cloud providers, hyperscale cloud providers for security, but that doesn't diminish the roles flung place. So there's a lot of people that are debating, well, the cloud is going to eat Splunk's lunch. And so I don't think that's the case. I want to get your thoughts of it because they're symbionic. Oh yeah. So what's your thoughts on the relationship to the cloud providers, to the Splunk customer who's also going to potentially moves to the cloud and have a hybrid cloud environment? Yeah, and now I would agree there's, you know, there are going to exist side by side for a long time. >>Uh, most environments that we see are hybrid environments. While most organizations do have a cloud first initiative, there's still a lot of on premise stuff. So Splunk is still going to be a, a key cornerstone of just getting that data. Where I do see is maybe a, you know, in those platforms, um, kind of stretching the reach of Splunk of, Hey, let's, let's filter and parse this stuff maybe closer to the source and make sure that we're getting the actionable things into our Splunk ES dashboards and things like that so that we can really make sure that we're getting the good stuff. And maybe, you know, the stuff that's not actionable, we're, we've up in our AWS environment. Um, and that's, that's a lot of the technology that Splunk's coming out with. It's able to search those other environments is going to be really key I think for that where you don't have to kind of use up all your licensing and bring that non-actionable data in, but you still able to search across. >>But that doesn't sound like core Splunk services more. That's more of an operational choice there. Less of a core thing. You mentioned that you think splints to sit side by side for the clouds. What, what gives you that insight? What's, what's, uh, what's telling you that that's gonna happen? What's the, yeah, you still need the core functionality of Splunk running with spark provides is a, you know, it's a great way to bring data and it parses it, uh, extremely well. Um, having those, uh, you know, correlate in correlation engines and searches. Um, that's, that's very nice to have that prepackaged doing that from scratch. Uh, you can certainly, there's other tools that can bring data in, but that's a heavy riff to try to recreate the wheel so to speak. We're here with Joe Parlo, CTO, really a quest, a pardon with Splunk setting up this dotcom SOC for the exhibits and all the infrastructure. >>Um, final question, what's the coolest thing going on at dotcom this year? What's, what should customers or geeks look at that's cool and relevant that you think should be top line? Top couple of things. Yeah, I, I, uh, one of the things I like the most out of the keynote was, uh, the whole, uh, Porsche use case with that. The AR augmentation on my pet bear was really, really cool. Um, and then obviously the new features are coming out with, with VFS and some of another pricing model. So definitely exciting time to be a partner of Splunk. Alright, Joe, thanks for them. John furrier here with the cube live in Las Vegas day two of three days of coverage.com. Their 10th year anniversary, our seventh year covering the Silicon angle, the cube. I'm Sean furrier. Thanks for watching. We'll be right back.

>> Announcer: Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCube. Covering IFS World Conference 2019. Brought to you by IFS. >> Welcome back to Boston everybody you're watching theCube, the leader in live tech coverage. This is day one of the IFS World Conference. I'm Dave Vallante with my co-host Paul Gillen. Melissa Di Donato is here, she's the CEO of SUSE and Jon Roskill is the CEO of Acumatica. Folks, welcome to theCube. >> Thank you so much. >> So you guys had the power panel today? Talking about digital transformation. I got a question for all of you. What's the difference between a business and a digital business? Melissa, I'll give you first crack. >> Before a regular old business and a digital business? Everyone's digital these days, aren't they? I was interviewing the, one of the leaders in Expedia and I said, "Are you a travel company "or are you a digital company? "Like where do you lead with?" And she said to me, "No no, we're a travel company "but we use digital." So it seems like the more and more we think about what the future means how we service our customers, customers being at the core everyone's a digital business. The way you service, the way you communicate the way you support. So whether you're a business or none you're always got to be a digital business. >> You better be a digital business and so-- >> I'm going to take a slightly different tact on that which is, we talk about digital and analog businesses and analog businesses are ones that are data silos they have a lot of systems, so they think they're digital but they're disconnected. And, you know, part of a transformation is connecting all the systems together and getting them to work like one. >> But I think the confict other common thread is data, right? A digital business maybe puts data at the core and that's how they get competitive advantage but, I want to ask you guys about your respective businesses. So SUSE, obviously you compete with the big whale RedHat, you know, the big news last year IBM $34 billion. How did that or will that in your view affect your business? >> It's already affecting our business. We've seen a big big uptake in interest in SUSE and what we're doing. You know, they say that a big part of the install based customers that RedHat and IBM currently have are unhappy about the decision to be acquired by IBM. Whether they're in conflict because we're a very big heavily channel business, right? So a lot of the channel partners are not quite happy about having one of their closest competitors now be, you know, part of the inner circle if you will. And other customers are just not happy. I mean, RedHat had fast innovation, fast pace and thought leadership and now all of a sudden they're going to be buried inside of a large conglomerate and they're not happy about that. So when we look at what's been happening for us particularly since March, we became an independent company now one of the world's largest independent open source company in the world. Since IBM has been taking over from RedHat. And, you know, big big uptake. Since March we became independent we've been getting a lot of questioning. "Where are we, where are we going, what are we doing?" And, " Hey, you know, I haven't heard about SUSE a while "what are you doing now?" So it's been really good news for us really, really good news. >> I mean, we're huge fans of RedHat. We do a lot of their events and-- >> Melissa: I'm a huge fan myself. >> But I tell you, I mean, we know from first hand IBM has this nasty habit of buying companies tripling the price. Now they say they're going to leave RedHat alone, we'll see. >> Yeah, like they said they'd leave Lotus alone and all the others. >> SPSS, you saw that, Ustream, you know one of our platforms. >> What's your view, how do you think it's going to go? >> I don't think it's about cloud I think it's about services and I think that's the piece that we don't really have great visibility on. Can IBM kind of jam OpenShift into its customers you know, businesses without them even really knowing it and that's the near-term cash flow play that they're trying to, you know, effect. >> Yeah, but it's not working for them, isn't though? Because when you look at the install base 90% of their business it's been Linux open source environment and OpenShift is a tag-along. I don't know if that's a real enabler for the future rather than, you know, an afterthought from the past. >> Well, for $34 billion it better be. >> I want to ask you about the cost of shifting because historically, you know if you were IBM, you were stuck with IBM forever. What is involved in customers moving from RedHat to SUSE presumably you're doing some of those migrations style. >> We are, we are doing them more and more in fact, we're even offering migration services ourself in some applications. It depends on the application layer. >> How simple is that? >> It depends on the application. So, we've got some telco companies is very very complex 24/7, you know, high pays, big fat enterprise applications around billing, for example. They're harder to move. >> A lot of custom code. >> A lot of custom code, really deep, really rich they need, you know, constant operation because it's billing, right? Big, fat transactions, those are a little bit more complex than say, the other applications are. Nonetheless, there is a migration path and in fact, we're one of the only open source companies in the world that provides support for not just SUSE, but actually for RedHat. So, if you're a RedHat, for or a well customer that want to get off an unsupported version of RedHat you can come over to SUSE. We'll not just support your RedHat system but actually come up with a migration plan to get you into a supported version of SUSE. >> If it's a package set of apps and you have to freeze the code it's actually not that bad-- >> It's not that bad, no. >> To migrate. All right, Jon I got to ask you, so help us understand Acumatica and IFS and the relationship you're like sister companies, you both the ERP providers. How do you work together or? >> Yeah, so we're both owned by a private equity firm called EQT. IFS is generally focused on $500 million and above company so more enterprise and we're focused on core mid-market. So say, $20 million to $500 million. And so very complementary in that way. IFS is largely direct selling we're a 100% through channels. IFS is stronger in Europe, we're stronger in North America and so they see these as very complementary assets and rather than to, perhaps what's going on with the IBM, RedHat discussion here. Slam these big things together and screw them up they're trying to actually keep us independent. So they put us in a holding company but we're trying to leverage much of each other's goodness as we can. >> Is there a migration path? I mean, for customers who reach the top end of your market can they smoothly get to IFS? >> Yeah, it's not going to be like a smooth you know, turn a switch and go. But it absolutely is a migration option for customers and we do have a set of customers that are outgrowing us you know, we have a number of customers now over a billion dollars running on Acumatica and you know, for a company, we've got one that we're actually talking to about this right now operating in 41 countries global, they need 24/7 support we're not the right company to be running their ERP system. >> On your panel today guys you were talking about, a lot about digital transformations kind of lessons learned. What are the big mistakes you see companies making and kind of what's your roadmap for success? >> I think doing too much too fast. Everyone talks about the digital innovation digital transformation. It's really a business transformation with digital being the underpinning the push forward that carries the business forward, right? And I think that we make too many mistakes with regards to doing too much, too fast, too soon, that's one. Doing and adopting technology for technology's sake. "Oh, it's ML, it's AI." And everyone loves these big buzz words, right? All the code words for what technology is? So they tend to bring it on but they don't really know the outcome. Really really important at SUSE were absolutely obsessed with our customers and during a digital transformation if you remain absolutely sick of anything about your customer at the core of every decision you make and everything you do. Particularly with regards to digital transformation you want to make sure that business outcome is focused on them. Having a clear roadmap with milestones along the journey is really important and ensuring it's really collaborative. We talked this morning about digital natives you know, we're all young, aren't we? Me in particular, but, you know I think the younger generation of digital natives think a little bit differently perhaps than we were originally thinking when we were their age. You know, I depend on that thinking I depend on that integration of that thought leadership infused into companies to help really reach customers in different ways. Our customers are buying differently our customers have different expectations they have different deliverables they require and they expect to be supported in different way. And those digital natives, that young talent can really aid in that delivery of good thought leadership for our businesses. >> So Jon, we're seeing IT spending at the macro slow down a little bit. You know, a lot of different factors going on it's not a disaster, it's not falling off the cliff but definitely pre-2018 levels and one of the theories is that you had this kind of spray-and-pray kind of like Melissa was say, deal was going too fast trying everything and now we're seeing more of a narrow focus on things that are going to give a return. Do you see that happening out there? >> Yeah, definitely some, I mean people are looking for returns even in what's been a really vibrant economy but, you know, I agree with Melissa's point there's a lot of ready, shoot, aim projects out there and, you know, the biggest thing I see is the ones that aren't, the fail that aren't the ones that aren't led by the leadership. They're sort of given off to some side team often the IT team and said, "Go lead digital transformation of the company." And digital transformation you know, Melissa said this morning it's business transformation. You've got to bring the business part of it to the table and you've got to think about, it's got to be led by the CEO or the entire senior leadership team has to be on board and if not, it's not going to be successful. >> So, pragmatism would say, okay, you get some quick hits get some wins and then you got kind of the, you know, Bezos, Michael Dell mindset go big or go home, so what's your philosophy? Moonshots or, you know, quick hits? >> I always think starting you know, you've got to understand your team's capabilities. So starting is something that you can get a gauge of that you know, particularly if you're new and you're walking into an organization, you know. Melissa, I don't know how long you've been in your role now? >> Melissa: 65 days. >> Right, so there you go. So it's probably a good person to ask what, you know, what you're finding out there but I think, you know, getting a gauge of what your resources are. I mean, one of the things you see around here is there are, you know, dozens of partner firms that are, or can be brought into, you know supplement the resources you have in your own team. So being thoughtful in that is part of the approach. And then having a roadmap for what you're trying to do. Like we talked this morning about a customer that Linda had been talking about. Have been working on for six or seven years, right? And you're saying, for an enterprise a very large enterprise company taking six or seven years to turn the battleship maybe isn't that long. >> Okay, so you got the sister company going on. Do you have a commercial relationship with IFS or you just here as kind of an outside speaker and a thought leader? >> I'm here as an outside speaker thought leader. There is talk that perhaps we can you know, work together in the future we're trying to work that out right now. >> I want to ask you about open source business models. We still see companies sort of struggling to come up with, not profitable but, you know, insanely profitable business models based on open source software. What do you see coming out of all this? Is there a model that you think is going to work in the long term? >> I think the future is open source for sure and this is coming from a person who spent 25 years in proprietary software having worked for the larger piece here in vendors. 100% of my life has been dedicated to proprietary software. So whilst that's true I came at SUSE and the open source environment in a very different way as a customer running my proprietary applications on open source Linux based systems. So I come with a little bit different of a, you know, of an approach I would say. The future's open source for sure the way that we collaborate, the innovation the borderless means of which we deliver you know, leadership within our business is much much different than proprietary software. You would think as well that, you know the wall that we hide behind an open source being able to access software anywhere in a community and be able to provide thought leadership masks and hides who the developers and engineers are and instead exacerbates the thought leadership that comes out of them. So it provides for a naturally inclusive and diverse environment which leads to really good business results. We all know the importance of diversity and inclusion. I think there is definitely a place for open source in the world it's a matter providing it in such a way that creates business value that does enable and foster that growth of the community because nothing is better than having two or three or four or five million developers hacking away at my software to deliver better business value to my customers. The commercial side is going to be around the support, right? The enterprise customers would want to know that when bump goes in the night I've got someone I can pay to support my systems. And that's really what SUSE is about protecting our install base. Ensuring that we get them live, all the time every day and keep them running frictionlessly across their IT department. >> Now there's another model, the so-called open core model that holds that, the future is actually proprietary on top of an open base. So are you saying that you don't think that's a good model? >> I don't know, jury's out. Next time that you come to our event which is going to be in March, in Dublin. We're doing our SUSECON conference. Leave that question for me and I'll have an answer for you. I'm pontificating. >> Well I did and-- >> It's a date. The 12th of March. >> It's certainly working for Amazon. I mean, you know, Amazon's criticized for bogarting open source but Redshift is built on open source I think Aurora is built on open source. They're obviously making a lot of money. Your open core model failed for cloud era. Hortonworks was pure, Hortonworks had a model like, you know, you guys and RedHat and that didn't work and now that was kind of profitless prosperity of Hadoop and maybe that was sort of an over head-- >> I think our model, the future's open-source no question. It's just what level of open source within the sack do we keep proprietary or not, it's the case maybe, right? Do we allow open source in the bottom or the top or do we put some proprietary components on top to preserve and protect like an umbrella the core of which is open source. I don't know, we're thinking about that right now. We're trynna think what our future looks like. What the model should look like in the future for the industry. How can we service our customers best. At the end of the day, it's satisfying customer needs and solving business problems. If that's going to be, pure open source or open source with a little bit of proprietary to service the customer best that's what we're all going to be after, aren't we? >> So, there's no question that the innovation model is open source. I mean, I don't think that's a debate, the hard part is. Okay, how do you make money? A bit of open source for you guys. I mean, are you using open source technologies presumable you are, everybody is but-- >> So we're very open API's, who joined three years ago. We joined openapi.org. And so we've been one of the the leading ERP companies in the industry on publishing open API's and then we do a lot of customization work with our community and all of that's going on in GitHub. And so it's all open source, it's all out there for people who want it. Not everybody wants to be messing around in the core of a transaction engine and that's where you get into you know, the sort of the core argument of, you know which pieces should be people modifying? Do you want people in the kernel? Maybe, maybe not. And, you know, this is not my area of expertise so I'll defer to Melissa. Having people would be able to extend things in an open source model. Having people be able to find a library of customizations and components that can extend Acumatica, that's obviously a good thing. >> I mean, I think you hit on it with developers. I mean, that to me is the key lever. I mean, if I were a VM where I'd hire you know, 1000, 2000 open source software developers and say, "Go build next-generation apps and tools "and give it away." And then I'd say, "Okay, Michael Dell make you a hardware "run better in our software." That's a business model, you can make a lot of money-- >> 100% and we're, you know, we're going to be very acquisitive right now, we're looking for our future, right? We're looking to make a mark right now and where do we go next? How can we help predict the outcome next step in the marketplace when it pertains to, you know, the core of applications and the delivery mechanism in which we want to offer. The ease of being able to get thousands of mainframe customers with complex enterprise applications. Let's say, for example to the cloud. And a part of that is going to be the developer network. I mean, that's a really really big important segment for us and we're looking at companies. Who can we acquire? What's the business outcome? And what the developer networks look like. >> So Cloud and Edge, here got to be two huge opportunities for you, right? Again, it's all about developers. I think that's the right strategy at the Edge. You see a lot of Edge activity where somebody trying to throw a box at the Edge with the top down, in a traditional IT model. It's really the devs up, where I think-- >> It is, it is the dev ups, you're exactly right. Exactly right. >> Yeah, I mean, Edge is fascinating. That's going to be amazing what happens in the next 10 years and we don't even know, but we ship a construction edition we've got a customer that we're working with that's instrumenting all of their construction machinery on something like a thousand construction sites and feeding the sensor data into a Acumatica and so it's a way to keep track of all the machines and what's going on with them. You know, obviously shipping logistics the opportunity to start putting things like, you know, RFID tags on everything an instrument to all of that, out at the Edge. And then the issue is you get this huge amount of data and how do you process that and get the intelligence out of it and make the right decisions. >> Well, how do you? When data is plentiful, insights, you know, aren't is-- >> Yeah, well I think that's where the machine learning breakthroughs are going to happen. I mean, we've built out a team in the last three years on machine learning, all the guys who've been talking about Amazon, Microsoft, Google are all putting out machine learning engines that companies can pick up and start building models around. So we're doing one's around, you know inventory, logistics, shipping. We just release one on expense reports. You know, that really is where the innovation is happening right now. >> Okay, so you're not an inventor of AI you're going to take those technologies apply 'em to your business. >> Yeah, we don't want to be the engine builder we want to be the guys that are building the models and putting the insight for the industry on top that's our job. >> All right Melissa, we'll give you the final word and IFS World 2019, I think, is this your first one? >> It's my first one, yeah-- >> We say bumper sticker say when your truck's are pulling away or-- (laughs) >> A bumper sticker would say, "When you think about the future of open source "think about SUSE." (laughing) >> Dave: I love it. >> I'd say in the event, I mean, I'm super-impressed I think it's the group that's here is great the customers are really enthused and you know, I have zero bias so I'm just giving you my perspective. >> Yeah, I mean the ecosystem is robust here, I have to say. I think they said 400 partners and I was pleasantly surprised when I was walking around last-- >> This is your second one, isn't it? >> It's theCubes second one, my first. >> Oh your first, all right, well done. And so what do you think? Coming back? >> I would love to come back. Especially overseas, I know you guys do a bunch of stuff over seas. >> There you go, he wants to travel. >> Dublin in March? >> March the 12th. >> Dublin is a good place for sure so you're doing at the big conference? >> Yep, the big conference center and it's-- >> That is a great venue. >> And not just because the green thing but it's actually because (laughs). >> No, that's a really nice venue, it's modern It's got, I think three or four floors. >> It does, yeah yeah, we're looking forward to it. >> And then evening events at the, you know, the Guinness Storehouse. >> There you go. >> Exactly right. So we'll look forward to hosting you there. >> All right, great, see you there. >> We'll come with our tough questions for you. (laughing) >> Thanks you guys, I really appreciate your time. >> Thanks very much. >> Thank you for watching but right back, right after this short break you're watching theCube from IFS World in Boston be right back. (upbeat music)

(upbeat techno music) >> Announcer: From New York City, it's theCUBE, covering New Relic FutureStack 2019, brought to you by the New Relic. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and this is theCUBE's exclusive coverage of New Relic's Futurestack 2019 here in New York City, seventh year of the show. Our first year here, about 600 or so in attendance, and real excited, because we've had some of the users here to help kick off our coverage. And joining us, first time guest on the program, Josh Biggely is a senior engineer of Enterprise Monitoring, with Cardinal Health coming to us from a little bit further north and east than I do, Prince Edward Island, thank you so much for coming here to New York City and joining me on the program. >> Yeah, thanks for having me Stu, I'm excited to be here. I haven't been in New York, it's probably been more two decades. So it's nice to be back in a big city, I live in a very small place. >> Yeah, so if you go to Times Square, it's now Disneyland, is what we call it. It's not the 42nd street that it might've been a couple of decades ago. I grew up about 45 minutes from here, so it's gone through a lot, love the city, especially gorgeous weather we're having here in the fall. >> I'm excited for it. >> All right, so Josh, Cardinal Health, health is in the name so we think we understand a little bit about it, but tell us a little bit about the organization itself and how it's going through changes these days. >> Sure, so Cardinal Health is a global healthcare solutions provider. We are essential to care, which means we deliver the products and solutions that your healthcare providers need to literally cure disease, keep people healthy. So we're in 85% of the hospitals in the United States, 26,000 pharmacies, about 3,000,000 different home healthcare users receive products from us. Again we're global, so we're based in Dublin, Ohio, just outside of Columbus. But obviously, I live in Canada so I work for the Cardinal Health Canada Division. We've got acquisitions around the world. So yeah, it's an exciting company. We've recently gone through a transformation not only as a company, but from a technology side where we've shifted one of our data centers entirely into the cloud. >> All right, and Josh, your role inside the company, tell us a little bit about, you said it's global, what's under your purview? >> So my team is responsible for Enterprise Monitoring, and that means that we develop, deploy, support and integrate solutions for monitoring both infrastructure applications and digital experience for our customers. We have a number of tools, including New Relic, that we use. But it's a broad scope for a small team. >> Stu: Okay, and you've talked about that transformation. Walk us through a little bit about that, what led to, as you said, some big moves into public cloud? >> Yeah, our team is part of an overall effort to allow Cardinal Health to be more adaptive, to be more agile. The move to cloud allows teams that are developing applications and platforms to make a decision how to respond to the needs of their customers more rapidly. Gone are the days of, "I need a new server, "I need to predict six months from now "that I'm going to need a new server, "put the order in, get it delivered, "get it racked, get it wired." We watch a lot of people, the provision on demand. I mean, our senior vice president, or my senior vice president, likes to say, "I want you to fail fast, fail cheap." He does not say fail often. Although sometimes I do that, but that's okay. As long as you recognize that you're failing and can roll that back, redeploy, It's been really transformative for my team in particular, who was very infrastructure focused when I started with the company five years ago. >> Stu: All right, and can you bring us inside from your application portfolio, was it a set of applications, was it an entire data center? What moved over, how long did it take, and can you share what cloud you're using? >> Sure, so it's been about a two year journey. We're actually a multicloud company. We've got a small footprint in Azure, small footprint in AWS, but we're primarily in Google Cloud. We are shutting down one data center, we are minimizing another data center, and we've moved everything. We've moved everything from small bespoke applications that are targeted on team to entire ecommerce platforms and we've done everything from lift and shift, which I know you don't like to hear. But we've done lift and shift, we've done rehosting, we've done refactoring and we have re-architected entire platforms. >> Yeah, so if you could expand a little bit when we say lift and shift, I'm fine with lift and shift as long as there's another word or plan after that which I'm expecting you do have. >> Josh: Yeah, absolutely. So the lift and shift was, "Hey, let's move from our data centers into GCP. "Let's give teams the visibility, the observability "that they need so that they can make the decisions on "what they need to do best." In a lot of cases, or in fact, in 15% of the 6,500 severs that we touch, we actually full out decommed the instance. Teams had them, they were running at our data centers but they weren't actually providing any value to the company. >> So you said your team before was mostly concerned about infrastructure and a lot of what you did is now on GCP so you fired the entire team and you hired a bunch of PhDs to be able to manage Google environments? >> Absolutely not. (laughter) The principals of enterprise monitoring as a practice still apply in a cloud. We are, at heart, data geeks. And I would fair say that we're actually data story tellers. Our job is to give tools and methodologies to application teams who know what the data means in context, but we give the tools to provide that data to them. >> Stu: All right, love that. I believe I've actually seen data geek shirts at the the New Relic shows itself. But data story tellers, that was kind of thing that you heard, "I have a data scientist "that's going to help us to do this." Is that data scientist in New York or are you actually enabling who is able to tell those data stories today? >> So that is the unique part. Data story telling is not a data science. I wish that I could be a data scientist, I like math, but I'm not nearly that good at it. A data story teller takes the data and the narrative of the business, and weaves them together. When you tell someone, "Here's some data." They will look at it and they will develop their own narrative around it. But as a story teller you help craft that narrative for them. They're going to look at that data and they're going to feel it, They're going to understand it and it's going to motivate them to act in a way that is aligned with what the business objectives are. So data story tellers come in all forms. They come as monitoring engineers, they're app engineers, but they're also people who are facing the customer, they're business leaders, they're people in our distribution centers who are trying to understand the impacts of orders in their order flow, in their personnel that they have. It is a discipline that anyone can engage in if we're willing to give them the right tools. >> All right, so Josh, you got rid of a data center, you're minimizing a data center, you're shifting to cloud, you're making a lot of changes and now being able to tell data stories. Can you tell us organizationally everything goes smoothly or are their anythings that you learned along the way that maybe you could share with your peers to help them along that journey? And any rough spots, with hindsight being what it is, that you might be able to learn from? >> Yeah, so hindsight definitely 20/20. The one thing that I would say to folks is get your data right. Metadata, trusting your data is key, it's absolutely vital. We talk a lot about automation and automation is one of those things that the cloud enables very nicely. If you automate on garbage data, you are going to automate garbage generation. That was one of our struggles but I think that every organization struggles with data fidelity. But teams need to spend more time in making sure that their data, specifically their metadata, around, "Hey is this prod, is it non-prod, "what stack is this running, who built it?" Those things definitely need to be sorted out. >> Okay, talk about the observability and the monitoring that you do, how long have you been using New Relic and what products? And tell us a little about that journey. >> Sure, so we've been using New Relic for about two years. It was a bit of a slow run up to its adoption. We are a multi-tool company so we have a number of tools. Some of them are focused primarily on our network infrastructure, our on-prem storage. Although Cardinal had moved predominantly to the cloud, we have distribution centers, nuclear pharmacies all around the world. And those facilities have not gone into the cloud. So you've got network connectivity. New Relic for us has filled our cloud niche and observability, as Lou announced, is going to give us context to things that we're after. You hear the term dark data, we call them obs logs. It's data that we want to have, we only need it for a very short period of time to help us do post-op or RCAs as well as to look at, overall in our organization, the performance of the applications. For us, New Relic is going to give us an option to put data for observability. Observability is really about high fidelity data. In its world of cloud, everyone wants everything right now. And they also want it down to the millisecond. A platform that can pull that off, that's a remarkable thing. >> Yeah, Veruca Salt had it right, "I want it now." So are you using New Relic One yet? >> We have been using New Relic One for at least a couple of months going back into March this year. It's exciting, we're one of those companies that Lou talked about in his key note, we have hundreds of sub accounts. And we did so very intentfully, but it was a bit of a nightmare before we got to New Relic One. That ability for a platform team to see across multiple sub accounts, really powerful. >> Okay, so you saw a lot of announcements this morning. Anything particular that jumped out, you were excited? Because Lou kept saying over and over, and if you're using New Relic One, "This is free, this is free, this is free." That platform where it's all available for you now. >> I think the programmability is one of the things that really got me excited. One of the engineers on my team had a chance to go and sit with Lou and team, two weeks ago, and was part of that initial Hackathon. Made some really interesting things. That's exciting so shout out to Zack and the work he did. Logging, for me, is something that is huge. I know we've got data that we should have in context. So that Lou announced five terabytes of ingestion for free, all I could do was tap my fingers together and think, "Oh, okay. You're asking for it, Lou. Challenge accepted." (laughter) >> Stu: That's exciting, right. So you feel that you're going to be building apps, it sounds like already, at the FutureHack. That you're starting to move down that path. >> Definitely, and I'm really excited. Not to necessarily give it to my team. We build the patterns for teams that needs patterns, but there are so many talented individuals at Cardinal Health who, if we give them the patterns to follow, they're just going to go execute. Open sourcing that is a brilliant idea and really crowd sourcing development is the way to go. >> Yeah, I think you bring up a really interesting point. So even though your team might be the one that provides the platform, you're giving that programmability, sensibility to a broader audience inside the team and democratizing the data that you have in there. >> Yes, you keyed in on one of the things I love to talk about which is democratized access to data. Over and over again you'll hear me preach that, "I know what I know but I also know what I don't know "and more particular I don't know what I don't know. "I need other people to help me recognize that." >> We've really talked about that buzzword out there about digital transformation. When it is actually being happened, it goes from, "Oh, somebody had an opinion," to, "Wait, I actually now can actually get to the data, "and show you the data and leverage the data "to be able to take good actions on that." >> That's right, data driven decision making is not just just an idiom. It's not something that is a buzzword, it is a practice that we all need to follow. >> Stu: All right, so Josh, you're speaking here at the show. Give our audience just a quick taste, if you will, about what you're going to be sharing with your peers here at the show. >> We've actually talked about a lot of it already so I hope that people are not going to watch this session before my session later. But it really is around the power of additional transformation, the power of observability, what happens when you do things right, and the way the cloud makes teams more nimble. I won't give you it all because then people won't watch my session on Replay but, yeah, it'll be good. >> Well, definitely they should check that out. I'm hoping New Relic has that available on Replay. Give the final word here, what you're really hoping to come out of this week. Sounds like your team's deeply engaged, you've done the Hackathon, you're working with the executive teams. So FutureStack 2019, what are you hoping to walk away with? >> For me, it's about developing patterns. My team, in addition to our enterprise architecture team, is responsible for mapping out what we're going to do and how we're going to do it. Teams want to go fast and if we're not going to lay down the foundation for them to move quickly, especially in the realm of enterprise monitoring, they're going to try do it themselves. Which may or may not work. We don't want to turn teams away from using specific tools if it fits, but if there's a platform that will allow them to execute and to keep all that data centralized, that is really the key to observability. Having that high fidelity data, but then being able to ask questions, not just of the data you put in, but the data that put in maybe by a platform team or by a team that supported Kubernetes or PCF. >> All right, well, Josh Biggely, thank you so much for sharing all that you've been going through in Cardinal Health's transformation. Great to talk to you. >> Thanks so much, Stu. >> All right, lots more here at New Relic's FutureStack 2019. I'm Stu Miniman and as always, thank you for watching theCUBE. (light techno music)

(upbeat techno music) >> Live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high-tech coverage, it's theCUBE. Covering VMworld 2019. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> And we are back at VMworld 2019, here in San Francisco, along with Stu Miniman. I'm John Walls. Welcome to theCUBE here, continuing our coverage here at Moscone. And we're now joined by Don Murawski, who is the manager of Servers and Storage at Wendy's. Don, glad to have you on theCUBE. >> Glad to be here. >> Before we leave, you're going to have to settle this with Stu. He's very upset about the change in menu. That number eight is no longer number eight. >> I can't do anything about that-- >> Well, perhaps we're going to look into that a little bit later on. And what you can do something about is is tell us about your portfolio of services. What you do in terms of, what you are managing in terms of storage, in terms of servers at Wendy's. >> Right, right, yeah. As you know, IT has, especially in the food industry, has become huge, especially mobile app, mobile ordering. You know, DoorDash. Order your food and have it delivered to you. You know, massive business. Massive financial for the company too. How that plays for me is, managing the infrastructure that it runs on. Whether it's an AWS or Azure. A lot of that stuff is on-prem still. So we have to manage a huge amount of volume with a very dense environment. For a hyper-converged shop, Nutanix is part of that. Cohesity is a huge part of our system now. Two data centers. One in Atlanta, one in Dublin, Ohio. So, it's quite quite a big effort. >> You mentioned on-prem, off-prem. About what's your split right now, and are you-- >> I'd say 30:70. >> Okay. >> Yeah, 30 off, 70 on. >> And how is that going to change, you think, over the next three, four, or five years? >> Oh it's changing, drastically. Cost. You know, CapEx, OpEx. It depends where our model's going to be at. Right now, we're more CapEx. So when that goes to OpEx, you'll see a lot more cloud. So right now, 70:30. 70 on-prems, 30 off. >> All right, Don, we talked to so many companies today, and what is that digital transformation they're going through? You talk about app and mobile. It's like boy, I'm reading articles about, how do we make sure that your food delivery person, doesn't eat a lot of french fries, before it gets to you? Maybe speak a little about the ripple effect that has to, your group and IT, as to, you know, we always say fast food. What's faster than walking up to the counter and you know... You guys don't have it sitting under the warmers, of course. They put that together and make it. But it's now transforming that fast food business. >> Yeah, it was touching the back-end servers So it's important that those are properly tuned, properly functioning, on legacy, sometimes legacy hardware. So between cloud and on-prem, it's been a challenge. And we're still working through that challenge. A lot of our developers are in-house. We actually have a big presence for developing right now for our own app. We actually develop our own app and websites. So a lot of that is tied into the movement of, more into cloud technology, than on-prem technology. So right now, like I said, it's 70:30. But it's still a challenge. >> And what is it about that when you say it's a challenge, I mean. So we've drilled down on that a little bit. >> It's just dealing with, not (mumbles) With on-prem you can't scale like you can with AWS or Azure. You can scale 100 times down an Azure bot, auto-scaling. On-prem we can't do that quite yet. We're getting there. So that's still a challenge, because a lot of the information still hasn't touched, on-prem. On-prem databases, which are getting older too, so to speak. So it's still a challenge. >> Don, when you talk to companies, you talk about that whole modernization. And the keynote this morning. We're talking about hybrid-cloud. We talked about multi-cloud. HCI is often a piece of that modernization, but how do you look at how you scale and change things in your data center, versus the public cloud. Is it making progress? Is it limiting at all? >> It's slow progress, slower than we want. More like into, getting rid of the VMs, go containerization. That's a lot of containerization that's happening now with Kubernetes. We have a DevOps apartment we actually just created internally to do that type of work. It's just taking a little bit longer than we anticipated. >> Yeah, and (mumbles) obviously Kubernetes is big discussion here. >> Right. >> How long has your group been using it? >> Not a year. >> Why do you use it? What is it? What's the value to your organization? >> Click a button and you've got a server. It's auto-scaling. So instead of taking two hours to build a server, or three, it's taking two minutes. I think we actually timed a Linux server build in two and a half minutes. The fact that you've got a small workforce too. I mean, we're advertising jobs. Things are what they are. They're pretty stagnant. So we have to make do with the technology that's out there. And Kubernetes is a big part of our future, infrastructure. >> But oftentimes Kubernetes is something that will help me if I want to move something from my data center to the cloud or between clouds or like, do you use that use case yet? Or -- >> Not yet, not yet, we're getting there. >> Okay. >> Yes. Slower progress than we'd want, but yeah, we're getting there. >> All right, when you're living in this multifaceted environment, bring us inside your data management. What's that like today, what's working, what challenges do you have? >> I'll tell you what it was like. It was a nightmare.(laughs) >> Yeah. That'd be awful. (laughing) >> It was a complete nightmare. Multiple vendors. Very complex. Now we're trying to simplify things, make it more dense with (mumbles) Cohesity. It's been a big part for the past year. We moved all our backups at Cohesity. So Cohesity is basically backup and DR now. I don't use it like secondary storage. I have other storage for that, smaller storage units. So it's... Two years ago, we had lost our primary storage and basically took down the company. And living through trying to get your data back for hours and hours and hours, and working. I had guys working 100 hours a week for two, three weeks. And (mumbles) didn't see their families. So making something that is easy to use, manageable, and recoverable, was huge. So take the complexity out and add the ease administration. And that's what we did with Cohesity. >> Yeah, and you're painting really maybe not a worst-case scenario but an awful-case scenario. >> It was an awful case scenario. >> Yeah. So I mean, disaster recovery was a disaster for you. It sounds like that. >> It was. >> So is that what drove you to the Cohesity decision? >> It was, that was a big factor. The fact that I need to be able replicate this stuff to another location, that's one thing. That's what everybody says. But can you actually recover it if it's in the other location. No, we couldn't. Now we can, and I actually prove that through a POC. So yeah, it was a big factor. The fact that people had to sacrifice weekends and I mean literally, work all night, multiple nights, to get things back up, to get the business back up. >> So what do you say to your colleagues or counterparts out there, maybe who haven't, maybe done this kind of spadework that you guys from -- >> I'd try to turn down your critical servers and see if you can recover 'em. You know, take them down and see if you can get 'em back up. Test your DR, because if you don't, it's going to come back to bite ya, and it did. We got most of our data back, but there's some things we didn't get back. We had to recover, I think we had to retire a couple systems that were homegrown systems that were written by a developer back in the day, that's no longer there, we couldn't get it back. We had to send whole departments home, because of this. So I would say, test it. Make sure it works. And make sure your vendor, whoever you pick, is standing by you too. That's a big thing, it's that relationship with the vendor. We don't pick it because it works, we do. But we also pick it because of the relationship with the vendor. Are they going to be there when all, you know what, breaks loose. >> Right. >> Some do, some don't. >> Who's your friend right? >> Who's your friend. >> So Don, you've gotten your title. It's Server and Storage. But you're talking about the Kubernetes, and modern multi-cloud environment-- >> Don: We're small shop. We're small IT shop. So out of my group, DevOps actually spun out. So now we're kind of a infrastructure DevOps team That DevOps is a whole separate thing now because of my team. >> Yeah but (mumbles) what I guess I wanted to get it right is that, was that mostly internally training and going through the model. >> Yeah, it was. >> Bring us through some of those, what worked well, what was a little bit of a pain point. >> Pain points, It took a year to get one application working. But now it's working, you see the value in it. Because I was like, this is a waste of time. We don't scale that much. But however when you do, it sure is nice to build a server like I said, two minutes, that's a huge factor. You know, it was coming, that seemed to be the trend. DevOps, I mean, we wouldn't have DevOps jobs three, four years ago. Well now there's DevOps admin jobs. So it was coming, it was just a matter of time. >> You've been using Cohesity for about a year now, you said. >> A year. >> You talked about where you're using it. Give us a little bit looking forward. Where do you go with Cohesity. What would you like to see them do. >> Yeah, I think a big point is going to be, especially from a (mumble) infrastructure platform, will be more of an Azure footprint. Shrinking the on-prem data center. So Cohesity is going to play a huge role. We still have a lot of 2008 servers. And 2008 goes out of, end of life, in a few months. There's no way I'm going to retire 200+ servers by January. It's not going to be humanly possible. So a lot of that stuff I had to get moved to Azure for support, and Cohesity's going to play a big role in moving that and protecting it. So yeah, I'd say a good path for Cohesity in the future for us. >> So when I brought you on and we talked about the menu, item number eight, that you said you can't help Stu with, is that right? What is menu item number eight? >> It was one of the chicken specialties (mumbles) they have. >> So however, if that, we are very supportive. >> Don: I like that. >> We have our $2 Frosty donation for the year. >> Don: It's good. >> So a Frosty a day right? A free Frosty a day. >> That's right. >> So, we are supportive. >> That's good. >> If you can work on that number eight, maybe-- >> Don: I'll work on it. >> Maybe we can be even more supportive. >> All right John. >> Thanks Don. >> I appreciate it. >> Absolutely, this belongs to Gabe Leon, by the way, on our crew. Just got to give Gabe a shout-out there, for helping us out. Back with more here on theCUBE. You're watching this live, VMworld San Francisco here, 2019.

>> From our studios, in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this is a CUBE Conversation. >> Welcome to this CUBE Conversation here in Palo Alto, California. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We are here with Arpit Joshipura, GM of Networking, Edge, IoT for the Linux Foundation. Arpit, great to see you again, welcome back to theCUBE, thanks for joining us. >> Thank you, thank you. Happy to be here. >> So obviously, we love the Linux Foundation. We've been following all the events; we've chatted in the past about networking. Computer storage and networking just doesn't seem to go away with cloud and on-premise hybrid cloud, multicloud, but open-source software continues to surpass expectations, growth, geographies outside the United States and North America, just overall, just greatness in software. Everything's an abstraction layer now; you've got Kubernetes, Cloud Native- so many good things going on with software, so congratulations. >> Well thank you. No, I think we're excited too. >> So you guys got a big event coming up in China: OSS, Open Source Summit, plus KubeCon. >> Yep. >> A lot of exciting things, I want to talk about that in a second. But I want to get your take on a couple key things. Edge and IoT, deep learning and AI, and networking. I want to kind of drill down with you. Tell us what's the updates on the projects around Linux Foundation. >> Okay. >> The exciting ones. I mean, we know Cloud Native CNCF is going to take up more logos, more members, keeps growing. >> Yep. >> Cloud Native clearly has a lot of opportunity. But the classic in the set, certainly, networking and computer storage is still kicking butt. >> Yeah. So, let me start off by Edge. And the fundamental assumption here is that what happened in the cloud and core is going to move to the Edge. And it's going to be 50, 100, 200 times larger in terms of opportunity, applications, spending, et cetera. And so what LF did was we announced a very exciting project called Linux Foundation Edge, as an umbrella, earlier in January. And it was announced with over 60 founding members, right. It's the largest founding member announcement we've had in quite some time. And the reason for that is very simple- the project aims at unifying the fragmented edge in IoT markets. So today, edge is completely fragmented. If you talk to clouds, they have a view of edge. Azure, Amazon, Baidu, Tencent, you name it. If you talk to the enterprise, they have a view of what edge needs to be. If you talk to the telcos, they are bringing the telecom stack close to the edge. And then if you talk to the IoT vendors, they have a perception of edge. So each of them are solving the edge problems differently. What LF Edge is doing, is it is unifying a framework and set of frameworks, that allow you to create a common life cycle management framework for edge computing. >> Yeah. >> Now the best part of it is, it's built on five exciting technologies. So people ask, "You know, why now?" So, there are five technologies that are converging at the same time. 5G, low latency. NFV, network function virtualization, so on demand. AI, so predictive analytics for machine learning. Container and microservices app development, so you can really write apps really fast. And then, hardware development: TPU, GPU, NPU. Lots of exciting different size and shapes. All five converging; put it close to the apps, and you have a whole new market. >> This is, first of all, complicated in the sense of... cluttered, fragmented, shifting grounds, so it's an opportunity. >> It's an opportunity. >> So, I get that- fragmented, you've got the clouds, you've got the enterprises, and you've got the telcos all doing their own thing. >> Yep. >> So, multiple technologies exploding. 5G, Wi-Fi 6, a bunch of other things you laid out, >> Mhmm. >> all happening. But also, you have all those suppliers, right? >> Yes. >> And, so you have different manufacturers-- >> And different layers. >> So it's multiple dimensions to the complexity. >> Correct, correct. >> What are you guys seeing, in terms of, as a solution, what's motivating the founding members; when you say unifying, what specifically does that mean? >> What that means is, the entire ecosystem from those markets are coming together to solve common problems. And I always sort of joke around, but it's true- the common problems are really the plumbing, right? It's the common life cycle management, how do you start, stop, boot, load, log, you know, things like that. How do you abstract? Now in the Edge, you've 400, 500 interfaces that comes into an IoT or an edge device. You know, Zigbee, Bluetooth, you've got protocols like M2T; things that are legacy and new. Then you have connectivity to the clouds. Devices of various forms and shapes. So there's a lot of end by end problems, as we call it. So, the cloud players. So for LF Edge for example, Tencent and Baidu and the cloud leaders are coming together and saying, "Let's solve it once." The industrial IoT player, like Dynamic, OSIsoft, they're coming in saying, "Let's solve it once." The telcos- AT&T, NTT, they're saying "Let's solve it once. And let's solve this problem in open-source. Because we all don't need to do it, and we'll differentiate on top." And then of course, the classic system vendors that support these markets are all joining hands. >> Talk about the business pressure real quick. I know, you look at, say, Alibaba for instance, and the folks you mentioned, Tencent, in China. They're perfecting the edge. You've got videos at the edge; all kinds of edge devices; people. >> Correct. >> So there's business pressures, as well. >> The business pressure is very simple. The innovation has to speed up. The cost has to go down. And new apps are coming up, so extra revenue, right? So because of these five technologies I mentioned, you've got the top killer apps in edge are anything that is, kind of, video but not YouTube. So, anything that the video comes from 360 venues, or drones, things like that. Plus, anything that moves, but that's not a phone. So things like connected cars, vehicles. All of those are edge applications. So in LF Edge, we are defining edge as an application that requires 20 milliseconds or less latency. >> I can't wait for someone to define- software define- "edge". Or, it probably is defined. A great example- I interviewed an R&D engineer at VMware yesterday in San Francisco, it was at the RADIO event- and we were just riffing on 5G, and talking about software at the edge. And one of the advances >> Yes. >> that's coming is splicing the frequency so that you can put software in the radios at the antennas, >> Correct. Yeah. >> so you can essentially provision, in real time. >> Correct, and that's a telco use case, >> Yeah. >> so our projects at the LF Edge are EdgeX Foundry, Akraino, Edge Virtualization Engine, Open Glossary, Home Edge. There's five and growing. And all of these software projects can allow you to put edge blueprints. And blueprints are really reference solutions for smart cities, manufacturing, telcos, industrial gateways, et cetera et cetera. So, lots of-- >> It's kind of your fertile ground for entrepreneurship, too, if you think about it, >> Correct; startups are huge. >> because, just the radio software that splices the radio spectrum is going to potentially maybe enable a service provider market, and towers, right? >> Correct, correct. >> Own my own land, I can own the tower and rent it out, one radio. >> Yep. >> So, business model innovations also an opportunity, >> It's a huge-- >> not just the business pressure to have an edge, but-- >> Correct. So technology, business, and market pressures. All three are colliding. >> Yeah, perfect storm. >> So edge is very exciting for us, and we had some new announcements come out in May, and more exciting news to come out in June, as well. >> And so, going back to Linux Foundation. If I want to learn more. >> LFEdge.org. >> That's kind of the CNCF of edge, if you will, right? Kind of thing. >> Yeah. It's an umbrella with all the projects, and that's equivalent to the CNCF, right. >> Yeah. >> And of course it's a huge group. >> So it's kind of momentum. 64 founding members-- >> Huge momentum. Yeah, now we are at 70 founding members, and growing. >> And how long has it been around? >> The umbrella has been around for about five months; some of the projects have been around for a couple of years, as they incubate. >> Well let us know when the events start kicking in. We'll get theCUBE down there to cover it. >> Absolutely. >> Super exciting. Again, multiple dimensions of innovation. Alright, next topic, one of my favorites, is AI and deep learning. AI's great. If you don't have data you can't really make AI work; deep learning requires data. So this is a data conversation. What's going on in the Linux Foundation around AI and deep learning? >> Yeah. So we have a foundation called LF Deep Learning, as you know. It was launched last year, and since then we have significantly moved it forward by adding more members, and obviously the key here is adding more projects, right. So our goal in the LF Deep Learning Foundation is to bring the community of data scientists, researchers, entrepreneurs, academia, and users to collaborate. And create frameworks and platforms that don't require a PhD to use. >> So a lot of data ingestion, managing data, so not a lot of coding, >> Platforms. >> more data analyst, and/or applications? >> It's more, I would say, platforms for use, right? >> Yeah. >> So frameworks that you can actually use to get business outcomes. So projects include Acumos, which is a machine learning framework and a marketplace which allows you to, sort of, use a lot of use cases that can be commonly put. And this is across all verticals. But I'll give you a telecom example. For example, there is a use case, which is drones inspecting base stations-- >> Yeah. >> And doing analytics for maintenance. That can be fed into a marketplace, used by other operators worldwide. You don't have to repeat that. And you don't need to understand the details of machine learning algorithms. >> Yeah. >> So we are trying to do that. There are projects that have been contributed from Tencent, Baidu, Uber, et cetera. Angel, Elastic Deep Learning, Pyro. >> Yeah. >> It's a huge investment for us. >> And everybody wins when there's contribution, because data's one of those things where if there's available, it just gets smarter. >> Correct. And if you look at deep learning, and machine learning, right. I mean obviously there's the classic definition; I won't go into that. But from our perspective, we look at data and how you can share the data, and so from an LF perspective, we have something called a CDLA license. So, think of an Apache for data. How do you share data? Because it's a big issue. >> Big deal. >> And we have solved that problem. Then you can say, "Hey, there's all these machine learning algorithms," you know, TensorFlow, and others, right. How can you use it? And have plugins to this framework? Then there's the infrastructure. Where do you run these machine learning? Like if you run it on edge, you can run predictive maintenance before a machine breaks down. If you run it in the core, you can do a lot more, right? So we've done that level of integration. >> So you're treating data like code. You can bring data to the table-- >> And then-- >> Apply some licensing best practices like Apache. >> Yes, and then integrate it with the machine learning, deep learning models, and create platforms and frameworks. Whether it's for cloud services, for sharing across clouds, elastic searching-- >> And Amazon does that in terms of they vertically integrate SageMaker, for instance. >> That's exactly right. >> So it's a similar-- >> And this is the open-source version of it. >> Got it- oh, that's awesome. So, how does someone get involved here, obviously developers are going to love this, but-- >> LF Deep Learning is the place to go, under Linux Foundation, similar to LF Edge, and CNCF. >> So it's not just developers. It's also people who have data, who might want to expose it in. >> Data scientists, databases, algorithmists, machine learning, and obviously, a whole bunch of startups. >> A new kind of developer, data developer. >> Right. Exactly. And a lot of verticals, like the security vertical, telecom vertical, enterprise verticals, finance, et cetera. >> You know, I've always said- you and I talked about this before, and I always rant on theCUBE about this- I believe that there's going to be a data development environment where data is code, kind of like what DevOps did with-- >> It's the new currency, yeah. >> It's the new currency. >> Yeah. Alright, so final area I want to chat with you before we get into the OSS China thing: networking. >> Yeah. >> Near and dear to your heart. >> Near and dear to my-- >> Networking's hot now, because if you bring IoT, edge, AI, networking, you've got to move things around-- >> Move things around, (laughs) right, so-- >> And you still need networking. >> So we're in the second year of the LF Networking journey, and we are really excited at the progress that has happened. So, projects like ONAP, OpenDaylight, Tungsten Fabric, OPNFV, FDio, I mean these are now, I wouldn't say household names, but business enterprise names. And if you've seen, pretty much all the telecom providers- almost 70% of the subscribers covered, enabled by the service providers, are now participating. Vendors are completely behind it. So we are moving into a phase which is really the deployment phase. And we are starting to see, not just PoCs [Proofs of Concept], but real deployments happening, some of the major carriers now. Very excited, you know, Dublin, ONAP's Dublin release is coming up, OPNFV just released the Hunter release. Lots of exciting work in Fido, to sort of connect-- >> Yeah. >> multiple projects together. So, we're looking at it, the big news there is the launch of what's called OVP. It's a compliance and verification program that cuts down the deployment time of a VNF by half. >> You know, it's interesting, Stu and I always talk about this- Stu Miniman, CUBE cohost with me- about networking, you know, virtualization came out and it was like, "Oh networking is going to change." It's actually helped networking. >> It helped networking. >> Now you're seeing programmable networks come out, you see Cisco >> And it's helped. >> doing a lot of things, Juniper as well, and you've got containers in Kubernetes right around the corner, so again, this is not going to change the need, it's going to- It's not going to change >> It's just a-- >> the desire and need of networking, it's going to change what networking is. How do you describe that to people? Someone saying, "Yeah, but tell me what's going on in networking? Virtualization, we got through that wave, now I've got the container, Kubernetes, service mesh wave, how does networking change? >> Yeah, so it's a four step process, right? The first step, as you rightly said, virtualization, moved into VMs. Then came disaggregation, which was enabled by the technology SDN, as we all know. Then came orchestration, which was last year. And that was enabled by projects like ONAP and automation. So now, all of the networks are automated, fully running, self healing, feedback closed control, all that stuff. And networks have to be automated before 5G and IoT and all of these things hit, because you're no longer talking about phones. You're talking about things that get connected, right. So that's where we are today. And that journey continues for another two years, and beyond. But very heavy focused on deployment. And while that's happening, we're looking at the hybrid version of VMs and containers running in the network. How do you make that happen? How do you translate one from the other? So, you know, VNFs, CNFs, everything going at the same time in your network. >> You know what's exciting is with the software abstractions emerging, the hard problems are starting to emerge because as it gets more complicated, end by end problems, as you said, there's a lot of new costs and complexities, for instance, the big conversation at the Edge is, you don't want to move data around. >> No, no. >> So you want to move compute to the edge, >> You can, yeah-- >> But it's still a networking problem, you've still got edge, so edge, AI, deep learning, networking all tied together-- >> They're all tied together, right, and this is where Linux Foundation, by developing these projects, in umbrellas, but then allowing working groups to collaborate between these projects, is a very simple governance mechanism we use. So for example, we have edge working groups in Kubernetes that work with LF Edge. We have Hyperledger syncs that work for telecoms. So LFN and Hyperledger, right? Then we have automotive-grade Linux, that have connected cars working on the edge. Massive collaboration. But, that's how it is. >> Yeah, you connect the dots but you don't, kind of, force any kind of semantic, or syntax >> No. >> into what people can build. >> Each project is autonomous, >> Yeah. >> and independent, but related. >> Yeah, it's smart. You guys have a good view, I'm a big fan of what you guys are doing. Okay, let's talk about the Open Source Summit and KubeCon, happening in China, the week of the 24th of June. >> Correct. >> What's going on, there's a lot of stuff going on beyond Cloud Native and Linux, what are some of the hot areas in China that you guys are going to be talking about? I know you're going over. >> Yeah, so, we're really excited to be there, and this is, again, life beyond Linux and Cloud Native; there's a whole dimension of projects there. Everything from the edge, and the excitement of Iot, cloud edge. We have keynotes from Tencent, and VMware, and all the Chinese- China Mobile and others, that are all focusing on the explosive growth of open-source in China, right. >> Yeah, and they have a lot of use cases; they've been very aggressive on mobility, Netdata, >> Very aggressive on mobility, data, right, and they have been a big contributor to open-source. >> Yeah. >> So all of that is going to happen there. A lot of tracks on AI and deep learning, as a lot more algorithms come out of the Tencents and the Baidus and the Alibabas of the world. So we have tracks there. We have huge tracks on networking, because 5G and implementation of ONAP and network automation is all part of the umbrella. So we're looking at a cross-section of projects in Open Source Summit and KubeCon, all integrated in Shanghai. >> And a lot of use cases are developing, certainly on the edge, in China. >> Correct. >> A lot of cross pollination-- >> Cross pollination. >> A lot of fragmentation has been addressed in China, so they've kind of solved some of those problems. >> Yeah, and I think the good news is, as a global community, which is open-source, whether it's Europe, Asia, China, India, Japan, the developers are coming together very nicely, through a common governance which crosses boundaries. >> Yeah. >> And building on use cases that are relevant to their community. >> And what's great about what you guys have done with Linux Foundation is that you're not taking positions on geographies, because let the clouds do that, because clouds have-- >> Clouds have geographies, >> Clouds, yeah they have agents-- >> Edge may have geography, they have regions. >> But software's software. (laughs) >> Software's software, yeah. (laughs) >> Arpit, thanks for coming in. Great insight, loved talking about networking, the deep learning- congratulations- and obviously the IoT Edge is hot, and-- >> Thank you very much, excited to be here. >> Have a good trip to China. Thanks for coming in. >> Thank you, thank you. >> I'm John Furrier here for CUBE Conversation with the Linux Foundation; big event in China, Open Source Summit, and KubeCon in Shanghai, week of June 24th. It's a CUBE Conversation, thanks for watching.