(upbeat techno music) >> Announcer: From New York City, it's theCUBE, covering New Relic FutureStack 2019, brought to you by the New Relic. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and this is theCUBE's exclusive coverage of New Relic's Futurestack 2019 here in New York City, seventh year of the show. Our first year here, about 600 or so in attendance, and real excited, because we've had some of the users here to help kick off our coverage. And joining us, first time guest on the program, Josh Biggely is a senior engineer of Enterprise Monitoring, with Cardinal Health coming to us from a little bit further north and east than I do, Prince Edward Island, thank you so much for coming here to New York City and joining me on the program. >> Yeah, thanks for having me Stu, I'm excited to be here. I haven't been in New York, it's probably been more two decades. So it's nice to be back in a big city, I live in a very small place. >> Yeah, so if you go to Times Square, it's now Disneyland, is what we call it. It's not the 42nd street that it might've been a couple of decades ago. I grew up about 45 minutes from here, so it's gone through a lot, love the city, especially gorgeous weather we're having here in the fall. >> I'm excited for it. >> All right, so Josh, Cardinal Health, health is in the name so we think we understand a little bit about it, but tell us a little bit about the organization itself and how it's going through changes these days. >> Sure, so Cardinal Health is a global healthcare solutions provider. We are essential to care, which means we deliver the products and solutions that your healthcare providers need to literally cure disease, keep people healthy. So we're in 85% of the hospitals in the United States, 26,000 pharmacies, about 3,000,000 different home healthcare users receive products from us. Again we're global, so we're based in Dublin, Ohio, just outside of Columbus. But obviously, I live in Canada so I work for the Cardinal Health Canada Division. We've got acquisitions around the world. So yeah, it's an exciting company. We've recently gone through a transformation not only as a company, but from a technology side where we've shifted one of our data centers entirely into the cloud. >> All right, and Josh, your role inside the company, tell us a little bit about, you said it's global, what's under your purview? >> So my team is responsible for Enterprise Monitoring, and that means that we develop, deploy, support and integrate solutions for monitoring both infrastructure applications and digital experience for our customers. We have a number of tools, including New Relic, that we use. But it's a broad scope for a small team. >> Stu: Okay, and you've talked about that transformation. Walk us through a little bit about that, what led to, as you said, some big moves into public cloud? >> Yeah, our team is part of an overall effort to allow Cardinal Health to be more adaptive, to be more agile. The move to cloud allows teams that are developing applications and platforms to make a decision how to respond to the needs of their customers more rapidly. Gone are the days of, "I need a new server, "I need to predict six months from now "that I'm going to need a new server, "put the order in, get it delivered, "get it racked, get it wired." We watch a lot of people, the provision on demand. I mean, our senior vice president, or my senior vice president, likes to say, "I want you to fail fast, fail cheap." He does not say fail often. Although sometimes I do that, but that's okay. As long as you recognize that you're failing and can roll that back, redeploy, It's been really transformative for my team in particular, who was very infrastructure focused when I started with the company five years ago. >> Stu: All right, and can you bring us inside from your application portfolio, was it a set of applications, was it an entire data center? What moved over, how long did it take, and can you share what cloud you're using? >> Sure, so it's been about a two year journey. We're actually a multicloud company. We've got a small footprint in Azure, small footprint in AWS, but we're primarily in Google Cloud. We are shutting down one data center, we are minimizing another data center, and we've moved everything. We've moved everything from small bespoke applications that are targeted on team to entire ecommerce platforms and we've done everything from lift and shift, which I know you don't like to hear. But we've done lift and shift, we've done rehosting, we've done refactoring and we have re-architected entire platforms. >> Yeah, so if you could expand a little bit when we say lift and shift, I'm fine with lift and shift as long as there's another word or plan after that which I'm expecting you do have. >> Josh: Yeah, absolutely. So the lift and shift was, "Hey, let's move from our data centers into GCP. "Let's give teams the visibility, the observability "that they need so that they can make the decisions on "what they need to do best." In a lot of cases, or in fact, in 15% of the 6,500 severs that we touch, we actually full out decommed the instance. Teams had them, they were running at our data centers but they weren't actually providing any value to the company. >> So you said your team before was mostly concerned about infrastructure and a lot of what you did is now on GCP so you fired the entire team and you hired a bunch of PhDs to be able to manage Google environments? >> Absolutely not. (laughter) The principals of enterprise monitoring as a practice still apply in a cloud. We are, at heart, data geeks. And I would fair say that we're actually data story tellers. Our job is to give tools and methodologies to application teams who know what the data means in context, but we give the tools to provide that data to them. >> Stu: All right, love that. I believe I've actually seen data geek shirts at the the New Relic shows itself. But data story tellers, that was kind of thing that you heard, "I have a data scientist "that's going to help us to do this." Is that data scientist in New York or are you actually enabling who is able to tell those data stories today? >> So that is the unique part. Data story telling is not a data science. I wish that I could be a data scientist, I like math, but I'm not nearly that good at it. A data story teller takes the data and the narrative of the business, and weaves them together. When you tell someone, "Here's some data." They will look at it and they will develop their own narrative around it. But as a story teller you help craft that narrative for them. They're going to look at that data and they're going to feel it, They're going to understand it and it's going to motivate them to act in a way that is aligned with what the business objectives are. So data story tellers come in all forms. They come as monitoring engineers, they're app engineers, but they're also people who are facing the customer, they're business leaders, they're people in our distribution centers who are trying to understand the impacts of orders in their order flow, in their personnel that they have. It is a discipline that anyone can engage in if we're willing to give them the right tools. >> All right, so Josh, you got rid of a data center, you're minimizing a data center, you're shifting to cloud, you're making a lot of changes and now being able to tell data stories. Can you tell us organizationally everything goes smoothly or are their anythings that you learned along the way that maybe you could share with your peers to help them along that journey? And any rough spots, with hindsight being what it is, that you might be able to learn from? >> Yeah, so hindsight definitely 20/20. The one thing that I would say to folks is get your data right. Metadata, trusting your data is key, it's absolutely vital. We talk a lot about automation and automation is one of those things that the cloud enables very nicely. If you automate on garbage data, you are going to automate garbage generation. That was one of our struggles but I think that every organization struggles with data fidelity. But teams need to spend more time in making sure that their data, specifically their metadata, around, "Hey is this prod, is it non-prod, "what stack is this running, who built it?" Those things definitely need to be sorted out. >> Okay, talk about the observability and the monitoring that you do, how long have you been using New Relic and what products? And tell us a little about that journey. >> Sure, so we've been using New Relic for about two years. It was a bit of a slow run up to its adoption. We are a multi-tool company so we have a number of tools. Some of them are focused primarily on our network infrastructure, our on-prem storage. Although Cardinal had moved predominantly to the cloud, we have distribution centers, nuclear pharmacies all around the world. And those facilities have not gone into the cloud. So you've got network connectivity. New Relic for us has filled our cloud niche and observability, as Lou announced, is going to give us context to things that we're after. You hear the term dark data, we call them obs logs. It's data that we want to have, we only need it for a very short period of time to help us do post-op or RCAs as well as to look at, overall in our organization, the performance of the applications. For us, New Relic is going to give us an option to put data for observability. Observability is really about high fidelity data. In its world of cloud, everyone wants everything right now. And they also want it down to the millisecond. A platform that can pull that off, that's a remarkable thing. >> Yeah, Veruca Salt had it right, "I want it now." So are you using New Relic One yet? >> We have been using New Relic One for at least a couple of months going back into March this year. It's exciting, we're one of those companies that Lou talked about in his key note, we have hundreds of sub accounts. And we did so very intentfully, but it was a bit of a nightmare before we got to New Relic One. That ability for a platform team to see across multiple sub accounts, really powerful. >> Okay, so you saw a lot of announcements this morning. Anything particular that jumped out, you were excited? Because Lou kept saying over and over, and if you're using New Relic One, "This is free, this is free, this is free." That platform where it's all available for you now. >> I think the programmability is one of the things that really got me excited. One of the engineers on my team had a chance to go and sit with Lou and team, two weeks ago, and was part of that initial Hackathon. Made some really interesting things. That's exciting so shout out to Zack and the work he did. Logging, for me, is something that is huge. I know we've got data that we should have in context. So that Lou announced five terabytes of ingestion for free, all I could do was tap my fingers together and think, "Oh, okay. You're asking for it, Lou. Challenge accepted." (laughter) >> Stu: That's exciting, right. So you feel that you're going to be building apps, it sounds like already, at the FutureHack. That you're starting to move down that path. >> Definitely, and I'm really excited. Not to necessarily give it to my team. We build the patterns for teams that needs patterns, but there are so many talented individuals at Cardinal Health who, if we give them the patterns to follow, they're just going to go execute. Open sourcing that is a brilliant idea and really crowd sourcing development is the way to go. >> Yeah, I think you bring up a really interesting point. So even though your team might be the one that provides the platform, you're giving that programmability, sensibility to a broader audience inside the team and democratizing the data that you have in there. >> Yes, you keyed in on one of the things I love to talk about which is democratized access to data. Over and over again you'll hear me preach that, "I know what I know but I also know what I don't know "and more particular I don't know what I don't know. "I need other people to help me recognize that." >> We've really talked about that buzzword out there about digital transformation. When it is actually being happened, it goes from, "Oh, somebody had an opinion," to, "Wait, I actually now can actually get to the data, "and show you the data and leverage the data "to be able to take good actions on that." >> That's right, data driven decision making is not just just an idiom. It's not something that is a buzzword, it is a practice that we all need to follow. >> Stu: All right, so Josh, you're speaking here at the show. Give our audience just a quick taste, if you will, about what you're going to be sharing with your peers here at the show. >> We've actually talked about a lot of it already so I hope that people are not going to watch this session before my session later. But it really is around the power of additional transformation, the power of observability, what happens when you do things right, and the way the cloud makes teams more nimble. I won't give you it all because then people won't watch my session on Replay but, yeah, it'll be good. >> Well, definitely they should check that out. I'm hoping New Relic has that available on Replay. Give the final word here, what you're really hoping to come out of this week. Sounds like your team's deeply engaged, you've done the Hackathon, you're working with the executive teams. So FutureStack 2019, what are you hoping to walk away with? >> For me, it's about developing patterns. My team, in addition to our enterprise architecture team, is responsible for mapping out what we're going to do and how we're going to do it. Teams want to go fast and if we're not going to lay down the foundation for them to move quickly, especially in the realm of enterprise monitoring, they're going to try do it themselves. Which may or may not work. We don't want to turn teams away from using specific tools if it fits, but if there's a platform that will allow them to execute and to keep all that data centralized, that is really the key to observability. Having that high fidelity data, but then being able to ask questions, not just of the data you put in, but the data that put in maybe by a platform team or by a team that supported Kubernetes or PCF. >> All right, well, Josh Biggely, thank you so much for sharing all that you've been going through in Cardinal Health's transformation. Great to talk to you. >> Thanks so much, Stu. >> All right, lots more here at New Relic's FutureStack 2019. I'm Stu Miniman and as always, thank you for watching theCUBE. (light techno music)

>> Live, from Las Vegas it's theCUBE covering Dell Technologies World 2019. Brought to you by Dell Technologies, and it's ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone, welcome back, live CUBE coverage here in Las Vegas with Dell Technology World 2019. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Dave, winding down three days of wall-to-wall coverage. We've got two senior executives from Dell Technologies here with us, Greg Bowen, Senior Vice President, CTO of Office of the CIO Dell Technologies and Garry Wiseman, Senior Vice President, office of the CIO. Guys, welcome to theCUBE, good to see you. >> Thank you. >> Great to be here. >> So, we had Howard on, we had the CFO Tom Sweet on, digital experience is a big part of it. On the news announcements, a lot of Cloud stuff, but also a lot of, you know, workplace, workforce, human resource kind of vibe around Client Edge, digital technologies, unified workspaces, all pointing to the benefits of what Cloud and data can do, ultimately at the end of the day, that's what drive great value in apps, but also, user experience. I mean, people are workin', they're mobile, this is one of the core themes of the show. You guys have a digital, Dell Digital Way kind of mission. What is that about, tell us about that, 'cause you're doing it in internally, you're not even dog footing, you're building it out in real time, rolling it out, take us through the digital, the Dell Digital Way. >> Yeah, so the Dell Digital Way. If you guys ever Google digital transformation, good luck. The first six or seven results are all paid. Someone's trying to sell you the story on digital transformation. We're out there and you know, we're doing it all ourselves. We go to market with the IT transformation, workforce transformation, security and application transformation. A lot of people are choosing to do those one or two at a time. We're trying to do it all at the same time. So we had to develop a way that will allow us to accelerate our path through that, and we call it the Dell Digital Way. It's really a people process and technology transformation that allows us to change our underlying culture, really the way we interact with the business. Start with the business and the User first, and then work backwards from that. So the people part, it's really taking things from big functional silos that have a lot of matrix overlays, and creating small balance teams that own their code. On process, it's taking very large programs that are just generating risk all the way up and breaking those down into small deliverables where you have very low risk. And then on the technology side, this is where we are drinking our own champagne. We're actually employing our reference architecture from VMware and Pivotal all the way through the DM, Dell EMC technologies in our own data centers, So we can operate as a multi Cloud environment as well. >> So it's not just an announcement from the top saying, okay, just go digital. We're hearing from some of the insiders in the hallways here at the conference, it's hardcore. It's training, agile training, and this is not just you know, talk, talk, talk. You guys are actually getting it done with the training. How important has that been? Because at the end of the day, everyone's has all these kind of, they talk the talk, but might not walk the walk. >> It's training and getting the people right. At the end of the day, we have to change 10,000 hearts and minds in order to transform. And that means you have to touch those people, and you have to actually train them to operate in the new world. If you don't do that, you can put all the technology you want into the environment, if they don't know how to use it, it does you no good. So we're starting with getting our people up skilled, getting them trained. We're taking program managers, putting them through full stack developer training. We've got our first 60 that are going to be graduating this summer. And then we're training the rest of them on the Pivotal Way. So that's really about starting with that customer and working backwards, user centered design. >> How do people get the, how do, how do companies get the people's side right? Because you know, we all kind of work the big companies, you guys are a lot bigger. Now that Dell Technologies, where head of the old world was oh, let's reorganize, it's not working. You reorganize as a matrix organization. You know what agile teams, a lot of kind of HR issues that if someone might be great on one team, not great on another, and so it's really about the attraction of talent, retaining talent, knowing when someone's a fit. Is this ad hoc? How you guys get that right? Because that seems to be a big part of it. Because you got to be agile. You don't be doing reorders after the fact Oh, we didn't post the numbers. We weren't successful. Let's reorder, which means failure. So how do you guys get that right? >> I think it's partly skills assessment going in, right? You actually know which people are right for which skills and there's really key, three key skills in this. There's a product manager, the product designer and engineering. And then there's a lot of people that come into the balanced team after the fact. So it's really understanding where your teams are today, and then getting and finding paths for them in the future. I don't know if you have any. >> Well, I also have to say, obviously, being a company that presents itself as one that's modern, from a development standpoint, our infrastructure a place where really the next generation of developer or product manager or designer wants to come and work because they can see how we're really, you know, operating in this, this digital age, is another key thing for us to make sure that as we, as we recruit folks, particularly as we look at college hires, you know, they're looking for those types of places to come to work. And so part of it's the workplace we'd make sure that we have a modern looking workspace, we have, you know, open seating areas, we have lots of collaboration spaces for people to get together in. And then, of course, with the technologies, we're very lucky to have such a rich set of technologies available within the company itself. So we have, you know, the Pivotal methodology we use, but we have Pivotal Cloud Foundry, which is a great way for people to go and build applications and run them in the Cloud. We actually have all of the the things from a security standpoint that help us make sure that our customer data is secure. And so we can give them that insight as we bring them in, if we're trying to recruit people like, you know, the college hires as well as other industry folks that we're trying to track, that we're in this, this big motion and we have scale. Right, that's the, that's the one big difference. >> South of the playbook then is the playbook to get this right as core team. Get that core fabric of the, whatever the objective is, product engineering, and then put tuning people through. And cross pollinating based upon what the situation might be. I need a little Cloud, I need a little bit of hyper convergence. So you kind of, it's kind of like a combined workout. It's kind of like sports. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I think you know, as Howard had mentioned previously, on some the other sessions, with such a large organization, there are people who are going to be, you know, really game for the change and really want to, you know, shift towards this new way of working. There are folks that are curious, and then there's a small percentage that may decide that this is not a journey they want to be a part of. And so it's really as we go through those, those motions of saying, here are the plans of where we want to go. Who are the people that are going to opt in? And who do we want to help you to move forward from a skills perspective? >> So a couple of challenges that I, that I see, I wonder if you could help us understand how you address, you've got the business, users, apps, and then the tech comes last. Okay, makes sense. But you've got, I'm sure there are a lot of similarities across, how big is Dallas? Like hundreds of thousands of people? Lot of similarities, but there's also some unique requirements. So how do you deal with that? You try to find the overlaps and say, Okay 60%, you know, nail it, and the others, you know, maybe we build snowflakes or maybe we just burned some bridges. How do you guys address those dissimilarities? >> So the good news is, the frameworks that we're building, and the decentralization of decision making allows you to address some of those dissimilarities. We've got applications that have built ground up Cloud native, they're a green field, they've started in the Cloud, they started on PCF. And they are perfectly, really prepared for this journey. We have other applications that have been sitting in the data center for decades, right? And, and everything in between. We found that we can create technology pipelines that can actually get all those applications to production the same way. So there's one thing out of the way, the building process of writing software and deploying it to production standardized. The next step is when you decentralize decision making and you get the product teams to own their code, you get better decisions. So it's about creating a framework that allows you to handle the variety of challenges and use cases that are thrown at you. >> Okay, so you're also a 35 year old company, you got, there's all this technical debt hanging around. How do you deal with that? Maybe you could give some examples of situations where you said, Okay, this part of the portfolio, we're going to leave alone, maybe some old cobalt mainframe. You're not that old, (laughing) Oracle database, and we're not going to touch that. But, but how do you deal with that technical debt challenge? >> Yeah. >> Well, you know, the way we've looked at it is really, where's the need for us to move fast? Because when you look at digital transformation, it's really about making sure that yes, we're customer centric, we have high quality, but also that we can move quickly with the new expected speeds of business. And so we've looked at it in the respect that a lot of the customer facing type of environment, so dell.com, or our b2b site for customers, or anything that's service facing, those are the ones that we want to make sure we focus on iterating quickly versus, you know, the order management system per se. So the order management system, you know, it's, it's an area that we're working on from a transformation standpoint, but it's not as critical to be able to move as quick there to keep up with customer features that they're expecting in this digital age. And so we we look at it from a portfolio standpoint, and again, from an outcome perspective, and where do we want to have an impact with the customers or the employees will feel most immediately? And so that's how we prioritize things in the question. >> Another question, John, I like to ask guys like you, you mentioned drinking your own champagne before, but, well, a lot of times, you know, the product guys are coming to you with, you know, things that are in beta perhaps, champagnes not quite ready yet. (laughing) >> That's want to be champagne, you know. >> So you, I'm sure, have a lot of people trying to hey, try this out, you guys are busy. You're trying to, you know, drive, you know, company value. What role do you play in that regard? In terms of beta testing? You know, do people love you, do they hate you? You like, you tell on them? How does that all work? >> We should be our first and best customer, and actually our hardest one. So, you know, we've actually taken some of the container technology and run it through its paces. And early revs of that just wasn't ready for us. But we did put it into a non production environment and started working on okay, how can we utilize this, for maybe non production workloads, some of the DevOps stuff, we're just needing, say, runners in a container to move code from point A to point B, so we can start flexing it, and exercising it and give feedback where, you know what, it's not going to really handle some of our production workloads. But here's what you need to do. So we want to be the first and hardest customer. >> Yeah, I was going to say it's not always a negative in that, yes, we might encounter issues. So we've we've adopted PCF, the Pivotal Cloud Foundry a lot over the last year and applications. And yes, we discovered things that either it couldn't do, or other issues with, and the fact that we have that close relationship with the product team, we can actually ask for new features that they will actually then go ahead and develop for us in order to support our business. >> I presume there's such a large portfolio, you have to be somewhat selective, right? You can't just take every new product, okay. And so how do you measure the value? What are the key metrics that you're trying to lever? >> Yeah, so when we went and did this, we built a business case, right? Because it's a sizable investment. And we look at adoption of behaviors. So are you adopting the methodology, the Agile pivotal methodology? Are you adopting test driven development, then how does that impact our key performance indicators? Are we reducing user incidents and production incidents? Are we getting stories from the business into production faster? Or is the velocity picking up? And then all of those outcomes lead to the business outcomes. Are we reducing our total spend? Are we becoming more technology focused, more development focused, then say program management focused, so we have a nice cascade of adoption of behaviors key performance indicator changes, and then actually business metric outcomes. >> You guys make it sound so easy. >> Right, Greg and Garry, thanks for spending the time. I know you guys have a hard stop. But I want to get you know, one last, a couple quick questions in. One of the things we're hearing is integration, that part of the whole Dell transformation, a lot of glue layer in the past, lot of SI like work being done in IT. How is that going for you guys? How is the heavy lifting of rolling out consistent infrastructure been? And what kind of experiences is that throwing off for you guys, for the end users? >> So I mean, I'd say, although I've only been at the company for the last couple years, you know, I'm a Dell Technologies employee, not necessarily from, from either business before, but from what I've observed, and from what I've seen so far, integration is actually going very well from a systems perspective for both the companies coming together at scale. We have a North Star. So we have a strategy to make sure that where we have multiple systems we want to end up with, with a single system. We're working towards that over the years. And likewise with the infrastructure. We have data centers that we're using, you know, now across different locations, from both the entities as they came together, that we're continuing to optimize and modernize using the latest Dell technology. So, from my perspective, as someone that came into the company a couple years ago, it's very impressive at how well-- >> That, that's where the efficiencies are going to be right there too, right? >> Yes, it's amazing the same of the same, the sales tools as we're integrating those, and making sure that we have tools where the salespeople can sell the whole portfolio across Dell Technologies is another great thing. >> IT guy told me one time, he says "we're in business when we're out of business". >> Correct. Meaning, you've got that heavy lifting out of the way and shifting to the higher value, you know, capabilities with AI, machine learning, do much more higher crafted things. You guys see it the same way. Not that you're out of business, but you know what I'm saying, when you're invisible, it's good, right? >> Our job is to enable the business ultimately, and if no one knows we're there, that's when it's actually working the best. >> Alright guys, thanks so much real quick, go down the line. What is the, take your IT hats off, take your CIO hats off, put your tech hat on, industry participant observer. What is the most important stories being told here at Dell technology? What's the big takeaway? What's the most important stories? >> Yeah, for me, I also own our AI capabilities and Dell digital. So for us, it's just that, that huge amount of data that's being created on a daily basis, and using technology to do something with it. And I think, you know, you have to be ready and prepared for that. So for me, that's one of the biggest takeaways. >> Garry. >> I would simply say that, you know, the dream, I'll be able to run workloads in, whether it's your own infrastructure, or multiple Clouds that are out there and manage it in a single place. That's one of my big takeaways now that we've, we've released that with the, the Dell Cloud. >> Operational seamlessness and then using data to have specialism in apps in every industry that's unique. Tailor is horizontally scalable, but vertically specialized, very, it's like a whole new world. >> Yeah, very exciting. >> Guys, Congratulations, exciting news. We've been talking about this for three years on theCUBE. A more seems like more. You can see some visibility out there, congratulations. >> Thank you. >> Cube coverage here with Dave Vallante, I'm John Furrier. Stay with more day three coverage, two sets here in Las Vegas at Dell technology. We'll be right back.

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering AWS re:Invent 2018, brought to you buy Amazon Web Services, Intel and their ecosystem partners. And welcome back here at AWS re:Invent. We are live in Las Vegas, day three of our coverage right here on the Cube, and we continue our discussion now with Justin Warren and John Walls, with Matt Yanchyshyn, who is the director of solutions architecture at AWS. >> That's right. >> Good morning. Good to see you, sir. >> Thanks for having me. >> And Nick Cayou, vice president of the global ecosystem at Pivotal. And, good to see you this morning, Nick. >> Good morning, thanks for having me. >> All right, first off let's just get your take on what's happening here. We were talking a little but before we got started about here we are, day three, well day four if you count the partner conferences, but last day of the show, and there's still a lot of excitement in the air. >> All the energy out here. >> The show floor's still packed. What have you guys seen this week that's kind of stood out in your mind, Matt? >> Well, I mean people stick around for the third day because Werner Vogels is like a hero for so many people here and so, you know, a lot of buzz is to see his keynote this morning. You know, one thing I've been really excited about is all the announcements around machine learning this week. There's just been an incredible amount of innovation, and people are really excited about the DeepRacer and the DeepRacer league announced this morning, so that, you know, the momentum we're seeing and the excitement around machine learning is really cool to see. >> And from your perspective, Nick? >> I'm joining the marathon towards the middle. I came in last night. Matt and I had dinner. But I think the most impactful announcement I saw coming out of AWS was probably the Outposts announcement, sort of the commitment to hybrid, which, and I know Matt played a big role in kind of pioneering that and so that's super exciting, and I just can't believe how many people have stuck around. I mean, we're on the last day of this thing, and it's like, you know, people are staying after the party. They won't leave the house. >> Yeah, exactly right. Well, at four O'clock they're going to have important things that we're going to think about. DeepRacer, by the way, we've had a couple of guests on. That was a really cool idea about taking literally a small, toy truck, if you will, but programming it and doing some, not reflective learning, but reinforced learning with it, and then actually taking it into practice and putting these cars on tracks and having a yearlong competition. So we'll kind of see next year, how that works out. >> Yeah. >> AWS and Pivotal, all right. So what are the two of aligned with now? What brings the two of you here, and the two companies together? >> Yeah, well, I mean, I think first of all, as companies we have a lot in common, certainly how we think about customers. We're both really sort of customer-obsessed companies. But, you know what I see a lot, I work with partners all day long, and we want to make it easy for both our customers and our partners to embrace modern DevOps, like all these enterprises are going through DevOps transformation, and any tools and partnerships we can create to make that journey easier is really a priority for me and my team. >> Okay, and then from the Pivotal side of the fence? >> Yeah, I would say largely it's our customers. You know, a large portion of our clients have chosen to run Pivotal Cloud Foundry, which is sort of our flagship platform, as a service on AWS. Going back to, you know, tune of 2014 was the first public IaaS we supported after Vsphere, so, you know, I think our customers are pushing us to work together, and I think we've met that challenge. You know, one of the things we're here to talk about from a Pivotal perspective is all the work we've done with Amazon to expose Amazon services to our platform through this technology called a service broker, that you know, over the past six months, Amazon engineers and Pivotal engineers have worked kind of assiduously to deliver to market, and now it's getting in the hands of customers. You know, after this session we're going to go speak with about 50 customers in a private room about how they're deploying Cloud Foundry on AWS and utilizing the service broker to be more productive and drive more innovation of services into their developer community. >> So what are some of the services customers are attracted to? What are they pushing you to put into this service broker? What do they want to do with that? Maybe you could give us a bit of a flavor of that? >> So we came out initially a couple months ago with 18 services that we support, so things like S3, RDS, some of the Hadoop offerings. You know, I think we're going to see the basics, the S3s, probably consumed first, but we're working. We're actually putting some ideas together to see how we can build kind of reference architectures and paradigms to let our customers know how to take advantage of these services like machine learning or some of the Hadoop offerings, etc. >> Yeah, I mean, we started out with some of the IoT integrations already for the service brokers, but I agree. We're starting with the core services, the databases, DynamoDB, RDS, S3, etc. And we're starting to layer in more services over time. >> Well you've got to start with the basics so that you can then build upon that. >> Exactly. >> Which is what Amazon has a long history of doing. You know, you started with EC2 and then you grew beyond S3 and now we have services like SageMaker and things that drive the car with DeepRacer, so it would be nice if we could actually do training models using Pivotal Cloud Foundry. >> Well actually, nothing's stopping us from using PCF. One of the things I love about it is with Cloud Foundry you can use the Service Brokers. It makes it easier for you to adopt AWS services, but nothing's stopping you from using any AWS service, and it's one of actually the great parts of the partnership, so you're not limited to what we have service brokers for. >> Yeah. So, enterprises have been going on this cloud journey for some time, and Amazon's been around for a long time. AWS has had these services for a while, Pivotal as well. Where are we seeing customers? Where's the momentum for customers, where they're transforming their businesses, and we're hearing a lot about hybrid cloud here at the show. Where are enterprises putting their workloads? What are they looking at putting workloads into hybrid as compared to putting things over into public cloud or using Pivotal Cloud Foundry for? >> I guess I'll take it from my angle first. So, you know, approximately 70% of our customers are still running their workloads on prem, right? That doesn't mean to say that they're not expanding those applications out to Amazon, for example, and I think the key trend we're seen is, you know, cloud is becoming more of an operating model, and what we focus on is teaching our clients how to build and rebuilt software. The big sort of surface area below the iceberg for us right now is all of the enterprise applications, legacy monoliths that need to be kind of decomposed and moved into a cloud operating model, modernized through things like data services that we can expose through our platform to something like AWS. And, you know, it's starting to shift. We were talking earlier about the Outpost and how I think the goal is to kind of meet customers where they are together, if that's the best way to put it. >> Yeah. >> Both Amazon and Pivotal. >> Yeah, I mean with the size of customers we're working with, like Comcast and Liberty Mutual and US Air Force, it's not like a single jump into the cloud. It's a migration, a lot of different workloads, a lot of different divisions of these companies. So it's sort of a continuum, and so different companies are at different stages of their migration and adoption of the cloud all over different parts of the business, so I think the hybrid story is really meeting that need. You have some divisions that are going to jump right into server lists and IoT, and then you have other parts of the company that maybe, you know, have a mainframe that they're still tied to, so there's always going to be some of these dependencies, and so I think hybrid story allows us to sort of address all different parts of the companies we work with. >> So what are the factors then? If I'm looking at, you know, a hybrid cloud solution, how do you help people decide what to put where? Because, you know, you got it on prem, it becomes, you know, a heave, right? To move some things over, and so, could be easier to I guess, take the lightest lift and go from there, but that's not necessarily the best route to go, so how do you help people with that kind of decision? >> Yeah, I mean, we believe in the fullness of time that customers will eventually move everything to the cloud but, you know, in the meantime, like I said, it's going to be a multiyear journey for a lot of these big customers. So like if you take, you know, a Liberty Mutual or a Comcast, these are very large companies, and we work with them to find teams and workloads within, and that comes down to people a lot of the time. You know, different teams may be at a different point of sort of agility in terms of DevOps, and if they're able to adapt their software. If their software runs on x86 infrastructure and if they're already using CICD for example and if they're used to containers, then they're going to be good candidates. So I always look to the people and then the products and then decide what they're going to migrate in that order. >> Yeah, and I would say that, you know, there's a lot of big enterprises that are looking to shut down data centers and they've already made a decision to fundamentally move infrastructure to AWS for example, right? And a lot of times we'll be brought in after the fact if you will, to deliver that developer experience on top of an already made, fundamentally an outsourcing decision, so all the reasons, you know, cost, complexity, flexible finances, consumption-based pricing, a lot of that kind of substrate decision has already been made, and we're generally coming in and saying, okay, now let's look at the application architecture. Are there things like latency and/or regulatory requirements that would require you to keep this on prem versus moving completely to the public cloud? Are there services? So, you know, could you move off of legacy middleware for example, on prem, and take advantage of, you know, refactoring and moving applications into the public cloud to improve your cost structure there? There's a myriad of issues. I think we would generally agree. A lot of times we get guidance from our customers in their respective market segment as to what's most important to them. >> So looking ahead trying to sketch out the vision of what we're going to see in the future, what do you think that customers are going to be asking for you, next year, two years out? >> Well, I think we've had a great reception for a lot of the templates and the automation that we've co-engineered. You know, Nick was talking about a lot of the co-engineering. So we have something called the AWS Quick Starts that allow you to deploy Pivotal Cloud Foundry really quickly, and so we've had really good reception from customers. >> Yep. >> Like, things that we can make it easier for them to deploy Pivotal and just sort of explore using AWS. We're going to double down on those efforts. More service brokers, more Quick Starts, more Automation more self-service for customers to they can get started with pivotal, you know, quickly. >> Yeah, and I'd add we're also, we support a product we launched about three quarters ago, Pivotal Container Service, on AWS, and so I think we'll see by virtue of the partnership with VMware, a lot more customer demand to run PKS, you know, on AWS, on Outposts, on VM cloud for AWS, and all the variants of the VMware and Amazon partnership as well. >> Yeah, like you said, meeting customers where they are. >> That's right, yeah. >> Well you're about to meet Cisco >> (laughs) that's right. >> So, good luck with that, and I'm sure you're going to get a very positive earful, which is always a good thing and continue that great work with them. Gentlemen, thanks for being with us. >> Thanks for having us. >> Appreciate the time. >> Thank you. >> Back with more AWS re:Invent. We're live here in Las Vegas at the Sands expo, and you're watching theCUBE.

(ubeat techno music) >> Presenter: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Dell Technologies World 2018. Brought to you by Dell EMC and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to Dell Technologies World. We're here at the Sands Convention Center in Las Vegas and you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante, and I'm here with my co-host, John Troyer. John, good to be working with you. >> John: Ah, great to be here. >> Charlie Haney is here, he's the Senior Vice President of Dell EMC Consulting. Charlie, welcome to theCUBE. >> Yeah, thanks for having me, appreciate it. >> So let's see, Michael Dell the other day on theCUBE just yesterday said, look, let me make it clear, we're not trying to replace Accenture. >> Charlie: Right, that's right. >> So what are you trying to do? >> Well, look. We talk a lot about these four transformation pillars throughout the entire week around digital, IT, workforce and security transformation. And our customers are struggling with how to go through that process. And I think we have a unique opportunity to bring the technologies, whether it be hardware, software solutions across Dell Technologies together to go help them through that. And so I think it's important for Dell Technologies to have a set of consulting capabilities that has experience around those technologies and the integration of those technologies and help customers through that transformation journey while consuming our technology. And so that's where we're kind of focused. >> And is it the right inference that your real expertise is on that sort of architectural infrastructure, architectural layer, or do you seep into sort of more nitty-gritty business process type of stuff? >> No, it really probably is closer to the technology. I mean, we partner with many of the larger SIs as well to bring in a lot of their deep business expertise. We are absolutely strongest in our Dell Technologies, no one would hire us to go be an expert on someone else's technology. But if they're going to go do an Azure stack solution built on our hyper-converged platform, who better to go do it? If they're going to go do an SDDC solution with our VxRack kind of solution, embedding VMware and doing automation and orchestration, who better to go do that because those are technologies across Dell Technologies, and we have deep expertise and capabilities to go help them with that. >> So how does that generally work? I mean, you say you've partnered with some of the big guys. A lot of those times, those big guys are at the board level doing some huge transformation. And then what, do you get brought in to do that architecture layer, or does the reverse happen where you're sort of knocking on their door? How does that all shake out? >> I mean, it always depends on the customer, right? I mean, it's not uncommon for us to have a large customer who's investing substantially in an SI and/or within Dell EMC or Dell Technologies products and technologies. And so those large investments from those customers, they expect us to partner and work together to solve their problem. So oftentimes the customer expects us to partner, expects us to work and leverage the capabilities. There's a very large project that we have around data center modernization that actually Deloitte is leading the PMO and we're leading a series of technology work streams within that, and so we're working together to go solve that customer problem. >> Yeah, and they're integrating a lot of different vendors' technology as well. >> Well, Charlie, I'd love to kind of drill down on those work streams, boots on the ground kind of competencies. 10, 20 years ago, we were there and there was a lot more of people who were just shifting boxes in the channel and let's move equipment. It's much richer now, our theme this week, right, was digital transformation, making it real. It's a much heavier load, a much deeper conversation. Can you talk a little bit about those work streams and kind of the competencies that you expect your people to bring to the table and how you're working with the client organization? >> Yeah absolutely. So you've already talked to Howard, I think, right? >> John: Yeah. >> So within Howard's organization, he has a very large services organization that focuses on specific product implementation and support services, right? So 60,000 members strong with partners. And then there's the consulting team that actually augments and extends that. So the consulting team that I represent, we complement that. So when we talk digital transformation, we're talking about helping customers understand what is it to go build a cloud native application? What are the 12 factors of a cloud native application? How am I going to switch my processes to a DevOps agile process? How am I going to leverage a Dell technology platform such as PCF and Pivotal Cloud Foundry from our sister company, to go transform how I build cloud native applications? And so we have a set of capabilities in that space that would go help customers through that journey, partnering with Pivotal. >> How big is your organization right now? >> Several thousand. >> I'm kind of curious, what kind of folks are you looking for to join it? Like yeah, that's a wide range of expertise. You're looking for senior IT leaders, folks that have been doing it before? >> Yeah, usually they're practitioners that have been doing it for a number of years, although something like digital and cloud foundry, those are brand new technologies, right? So you're going to get a mixture of people that have been doing software development for a number of years, and make sure to have people that have maybe born up just recently, really growing with the industry around these new technologies. When you get into IT transformation, you're going to get some of the more hardcore data center, data center consolidation expertise mixed in with business resiliency. And then we're extending that with our private cloud and public cloud or multi cloud sort of services to federate, integrate and then move workloads across those. So as you go from digital into the data center and IT transformation, that mindset usually is a little bit different in the type of individual. >> Are you finding initiatives within your customers, you saw a couple of digital IT workforce and security. Are you finding that they're generally bespoke projects, or is a big mega project, and these are somewhat interrelated or kind of a hybrid? >> Usually, I mean, it is a hybrid. I mean, like workforce transformations sometimes is something that's unique, I would say. So someone's looking at, you know, what is my workforce, how am I going to enable my workforce, how am I going to make them more productive? You usually start out with personas and understanding their workforce, trying to align the right technologies whether it be physical or virtual with the right tools like communication and collaboration to enable them. You start to talk about digital, and it is a hybrid because it's hard to do digital transformation without having the right infrastructure underneath it and going through some level of IT transformation. And so for that, it actually starts to meld together. In fact, a lot of customers, when we talk to them around IT transformation, we talk about, thinking about your application model and helping transform that, your infrastructure transformation, as well as your people and process transformation. And those are things that you shouldn't do sequentially one after another, because you're not going to get business benefit and value until you've actually achieved that. So we actually recommend doing three of those things in sequence with one another, but then maybe chunking it up through MVP so you do it in an iterative fashion but you're hitting your people and process, your application and your infrastructure. And so that starts to then to support things like your digital transformation as you enable the technology that then is going to go right in the cloud native application. >> Let's go through a simple example, take IT transformation, something we've all sort of discussed and somewhat familiar with. You really can't do that and modernize your IT infrastructure without understanding your application portfolio. You can't really understand your application portfolio without understanding the impact on the business and the business process, right? So how far into that do you go? Where do you sort of leave off and some of your partners come in? Or could you do, maybe it's a lightweight business process touch point. How do you handle that? >> Yeah, so we're not redesigning the business process but what we're doing is, if we're looking at say application transformation within the context of IT transformation where many customers don't even know what applications they have, let's be honest. They talk about as CMDB, and oftentimes we look at their CMDB and we go inventory their environment and they're night and day different. >> They have 10 CMDBs. >> Right! So we start out usually with an application portfolio discussion around what are your key applications, what do you have, what are the dependencies around those, and then what is the right disposition as we think about those applications? Are we going to archive it, are we going to retire it? Can we consolidate it, move it? If we're going to move it, sometimes it gets into a cloud suitability study, because where should it get moved to? Are we going to modernize it? Would it benefit from being modernized with a PCF kind of platform? And that will drive those application portfolio decisions. When you get into the cloud suitability, then you're getting into the infrastructure. And am I going to do an on-prem off-prem and things of that nature as well. >> And then that example, you obviously want to understand what business processes get affected, but that's where you stop. If they have to do a business retransformation, then that's something that got to, that's a bigger fish to fry, right? >> That's correct, or we're usually partnering with someone else that's focusing on that level. >> How about security? Who are you working with there? Is it largely the CSO? Or is it still the CSOs and an IT problem, or is the scope wider these days? >> It is wider. I mean, obviously you're working with those individuals but it's so embedded in everything that you have to do today. It's not an afterthought. I mean, if you're building a private cloud within a data center, you've got to be thinking about the security inherent within that. If you're doing business resiliency, one of our biggest business resiliency offers and capabilities is around cyber recovery, which is an air-gap solution to actually have an off-premise copy with an air gap in between it because of cyber recovery issues. So everything we do has a slice of security embedded within it. >> Another question on digital. Oh sorry, John, go ahead please. >> Oh, I was just thinking about, a lot of this is discovery. There's an element of discovery to all this, right, as you go through transformation. What's going to work, what's not, unexpected problems, oh not anticipated problems. How much does this need to be driven from the c-suite from a predetermined conclusion, and how much is their discovery in the ground with the people below the c-suite and then reporting back up for support in the direction of the business? >> Yeah, we have found that it's difficult to undergo any transformation without a ton of executive and senior executive support to go through that. Anything that starts up really from the bottoms up at some point doesn't get the right level of governance and financial support to actually go through it, especially if you're thinking about doing, as I mentioned, around people, process and organizational change, as well as application and infrastructure, you could do any one of those maybe individually, but to do all of those sequentially you need a lot of strong support. And so that's really what we're trying to educate, based on our experience. >> So let's unpack that a little bit because my similar question is who's leading the digital charge? Obviously you're saying it's going to have top-down leadership, but that's a lot of Cs. (chuckles) >> Charlie: Yeah. >> Do you start with the chief digital officer? Where's the chief data officer, if one exists? Where does the CIO fit? Who's leading this? >> I mean, usually if you're focused on a digital transformation, usually it's coming to IT through the business, right? We're working with a large insurance company who's actually building a series of online banking applications using cloud native application development processes. We're teaching them DevOps, we're doing PCF, but all of that came through the business. The business says, this is what we're going to go do to actually go change how we deliver insurance in their case. >> So it's a general manager or a P&L manager or the COO? >> In this case, it was the business owner of that business unit within this insurance company driving into IT, and IT is obviously enabling them to go do that. We are working with a large gold mining company who's focused on IT transformation. They've grown through the years but they haven't actually modernized their infrastructure and they're starting to think about well, what should I be thinking in terms of cloud on-prem and off-prem? And so we went through an entire advisory set of services to help them understand, based on what your needs and requirements are, based on what you have, where you should go, what is the right multi-cloud kind of strategy for you and what is the roadmap to go do that in a realistic sense of terms? And then what would be the financial and investment to go through that process? And that was required because they had to go to their actual board to go get the investment dollars to justify that. >> So when you guys engage with customers, how does it start? What's the catalyst? I mean, as you said off-camera, you guys are talking way more about problems than you are about products. So what are some of the problems that you're hearing? We talked about at a high level digital, IT transformation, et cetera, but how does that conversation start and where does it lead? >> There's two ways that it starts, one is a customer has invested a ton in Dell products, Dell EMC products or technologies, and we find that while they're investing in all this infrastructure because they're modernizing their data center and they're going to go through some level of transformation; and then we actually strap on consulting and work our way up into well, what is the problem, why are you acquiring all this and have you thought about the following things around automation and people and process to wrap around the product installation that you're going through to actually get that value. The other is, like in the mining example, that customer actually was not a Dell EMC consumer, believe it or not. They were an underpinned account and they're like okay, we know we need to go do something, we know that Dell EMC and Dell Technologies has a suite of technologies that we should be considering. Help us understand what you've done for other customers. And it's because of that conversation that now it's leading into a complete set of product and technology opportunities. So those are the two ways, they work hand-in-hand. >> Interesting, so you're either tip of the spear where you're competing with somebody else, or you're basically brought in as part of a big deal where you're really not competing with anybody in that case, right? >> That's right, and we're just expanding and helping them hopefully realize their vision or their value sooner. >> Dave: All right, all right. Charlie, hey, thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Really appreciate your time. John, thanks for hanging out with us. All right, keep it right there. But we'll be back with our next guest. We're live from Dell Technologies World, the inaugural Dell Technologies World, you're watching theCUBE. (upbeat techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Dell Technologies World, 2018. Brought to you by Dell EMC and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to Vegas, everybody. We're rocking. We are rocking. Dave Vellante here with Keith Townsend. This is theCUBE, the leader, get into it! Live tech coverage. (laughing) >> We in the club! >> We are in the club. The Chads are here, Chad Dunn, Chad Sakac. Chad Dunn is VP of Product Management and Marketing at Dell EMC, and Chad Sakac, needs no introduction, although new role with Pivotal. >> Sakac: Yeah. >> Awesome. >> It's exciting man, it's great to be back, like come on, some things change, some things stay the same. It's always good to be on theCUBE. >> So tell us about the new role, let's start there. I know you've talked a lot about it, but you haven't with me, so. >> Yeah, so, in a nutshell, as I was trying to think what do I do next in my career? You know, we had built amazing things in the converged platform and solutions division, VxRail, massive success. >> Dunn: Yep. >> Those things moving into the parts of Dell EMC for more scale and velocity, which is simple. If you imagine the future of tomorrow, you'd go and say, what percentage of infrastructure going to be hyper-converged? Answer, a lot, and it's going to need to have a velocity that's very similar to a server, because what percentage of servers are going to be HCI? Answer, a lot. And so it was a very natural kind of, time to go and say, how do we optimize this thing? And then that gave me a weird, unique, once in a lifetime moment, where I could go and say, what do I want to do? My wife said, I'm telling you a long answer, and you probably want the short one. My wife said-- >> Dunn: You don't know any other kind. (laughing) >> This is Chad skills. >> "Chad, you've been on the road for 13 years, "your children are now 12 and 14, "they're going to be here in the nest "for like another four years, "take time off, I'll go out to work, "you be a stay-at-home dad." That was actually, like, option A. Option B was, there's so much cool stuff going on in the ecosystem, join a startup, do a CEO gig, whatever, and then stay in the family and a ton of support from Michael and from Jeff Clarke and from Pat Gelsinger and Rob Mee, and there was, like, do this at Dell EMC, do this at VMware, do this at Pivotal. And what I realized was the Pivotal thing gave me the opportunity to do the startup-like thing, discover some new parts of my own career, so move up the stack, and do one thing that I've always done, which is be at the intersection of the companies. Because PKS is, fundamentally, an effort that is 50/50, VMware and Pivotal, just like VxRail is a 50/50, VMware, Dell EMC effort. >> Right, right. >> So it was the obvious choice and then I had to have that uncomfortable discussion with my wife that said, "Unfortunately, sweetheart, "I'm back on the road." She said, "Fine! "But at least take one month off "before you go from one thing to the other." We went to Hawaii, surfed. >> Oh nice. >> It was awesome. >> You bring the kids? >> Oh, yeah. >> Beautiful. >> It was awesome. But in any case, it's a, you know, in the same way that when we started VxRail, we were like, how do we go from a market where we're currently not the leader, and quickly accelerate, become number one, in a two-year period? And that requires running fast and iterating. The same thing goes with PKS, PCF and PAS is number one for that universe, but we're not currently number one for the enterprise container distribution. So, that's OK, I like that, now I'm determined and stubborn to make sure that PKS is the best enterprise Kubernetes and container platform. >> Chad D, you were talking off camera about the interest in VxRail, sounds like it's off the charts. >> Absolutely. I mean a ridiculous number of customer meetings that we have here at the show this week. I think it's over 200 customer meetings, just on VxRail, and VxRack SDDC, you know, the VMware hyper-converged stack. And, you know, more and more on Pivotal PCF and PKS. >> Yeah so let's talk about that. You got the guys that are sort of, born Cloud-native and the guys that are trying to transform, they need infrastructure to help them do both, they need partnerships, so lay it out for us. >> So, Keith, you and I have gone on Twitter and talked about this, there's this nature amongst the IT ecosystem, where everybody wants the answer to be A or B. >> Keith: Yes, we do. >> Right, A or B. >> Keith: Yes. >> Yeah A sucks, B is awesome. And you know, debates raged about, you remember like, the era of Doka is going to destroy VMware, you remember that? >> I remember that, seems like just yesterday. >> Because it was just yesterday. (laughing) But what's happened now is everyone's realized that's stupid, that the reality is that Kernel-Mode VMs and containers are going to co-exist, and in fact, the majority of containers are actually going to be deployed on Kernel-Mode hypervisors. >> Netflix's biggest story is optimizations from AWS. They're able to save tons of money by running containers inside of VMs. >> Sakac: Yeah. >> Dunn: Absolutely. >> And, you know, I was laughed at a couple of years ago, when I said, you know what, containers and VMs go together, like peanut-butter and jelly, and it does. >> It does and so, look, does it change what people want from the Kernel-Mode virtualization layer? Yeah. So, things like DRS, that are really important if all you do is a Kernel-Mode VM is less important, when resource management is done by something like Kubernetes, but that's a refinement. And so, what we're trying to do now is now that everyone's gotten over the emotion, and what I call the bar-fights, where we're getting into stupid arguments, you know, that are not about something that matters, and now people are getting down to the brass tacks of, how do I make this go? They're realizing, I'm going to use off-prem and on-prem, I'm going to have Kernel Mode VM's and I'm going to have containers, how do I make that work, how do I build a hybrid model that will work for both of those scenarios? And then, frankly, our job as IT practitioners and the vendor ecosystem is to make this as easy as we can. >> Well, you guys know this better than I do, people want to use existing processes and procedures, they don't want to throw that stuff out, I mean I think of it, I remember Big Data and Hadoop that the killer application was sequel. Right, I mean even in the Blockchain world now. >> Sakac: Yep. >> Everybody's talking about writing in JavaScript, right, you've got expertise built up, you don't throw that away. >> No, and I think when you look at the people who are trying to deploy containers on premises, they don't want to worry about the infrastructure, right, they want to look at the new, play with the new, cool things, they want to play with Kubernetes, they want to play with containers as service. They don't want to talk about, OK, well what infrastructure do I need, how do I make those choices? They want something that is very much automated and very much scale-out so it can react the same way that their application does. >> So let's talk about that, let's talk about VxRail, Kubernetes, PKS. If I'm a Cloud-Native guy, I don't care about infrastructure but there has to be infrastructure. So where's the meeting of that conversation? Dell technologies run best on Dell technologies. >> So, again, I'm going to try and force myself to give short answers, because it's so not natural for me. I'm sorry, fellas. When Pivotal engages with the customer, we go and we say, "We give you a platform, PaaS, PKS "and the Function Service," and they say, "What should I run it on?" And the first answer that comes out of someone's mouth is it doesn't matter, you can run it on any cloud you want, which is true on one level. But then if you look at our on-premises projects, the thing that's the biggest holdup is infrastructure that is too rigid, too slow, doesn't work right, is busted. And they're like, damn it, if I want to focus my energies elsewhere, I have to have a base-stack that is just easy and done, right? >> So, help break up the long chat answers. One argument is, you know what, just give someone 128 gig VM, a bunch of vCPUs, and that simplifies the infrastructure. Where does that break? >> It breaks immediately when someone says, I need to add more total compute, or storage, or network, or memory, to my Kubernetes pot. Kubernetes goes, great, I'd like to basically make the cluster bigger, because I've got this resource demand. Then it looks down and says, infrastructure, are you there? And if the answer is, no, it's like, wah wah. Right? (laughing) So what we've managed to do is we've managed with VxRail to go and say, we've made an easy button based off of the customer-standard which is the VMware stack, it's not only something they can count on, they can easily add it, so if they want to add raw compute, storage, or network. It also adds in small increments, so you don't have to have a giant block of infrastructure to go in, you know, so you can grow your Kubernetes cluster, you can grow your physical infrastructure, simple, easy, done. And the biggest part is that Kubernetes makes deploying containers easy, however, PKS makes deploying and versioning Kubernetes easy, VxRail makes deploying and versioning the vSphere stack easy. Easy, plus easy, plus easy, equals easy. >> So is it like a quasi-elastic-beanstalk here? >> Elastic beanstalk, OK. (laughs) >> Is that fair? >> Or maybe a plastic beanstalk, where, you know, it could hold its shape. >> You know, elastic beanstalk is a PaaS, right, but the long and the short of it is is that if you get the abstraction that you need, Kernel Mode VM or container, the container is in a VM, if the whole stack is prescriptive and easy and works, then you can redeploy time, money, and resources, on the things that matter. And that Pivotal ready architecture, which is PCF, on VxRail, is that easy button on-prem. >> So, Chad, the production staff may regret me asking this question, but I have to know this. You're known in the industry for these blog polls talking about face-melting technologies. (laughing) What is face-melting about PKS, and VxRail, gimme some classic Chad. >> I'll give you face-melting. Facemelting to someone who's looking at a container platform and you're looking at Kubernetes is that without them knowing, without them knowing or doing anything, the Bosch part of what PKS does- >> Keith: Oh, Bosch. >> Is basically doing updates, like four times a day, blowing up the entire environment and recreating it and no-one has touched a damn thing, step one. The next thing that's face-melting is that their ability to update the infrastructure, can be done at tens of thousands of sites via API calls. So I'll give you another fascinating example. Kubernetes is generally thought-of as mostly a data-center thing, we've had fascinating interest from retail and other use cases, where they're like, look I get it, I want a Kubernetes, that I could deploy in a store. >> Keith: Yeah. >> And then you go and say, well, do you have a great DevOps practice in the store, in Topeka, Kansas? The answer is, no. But if I say I can basically drive all of the platform updates, including the infrastructure, at thousands of stores around the globe, that's pretty face-melting, no-one else can do that. >> Exactly, and look we see, you know, lots of pockets of Cloud Native popping up in accounts, and a lot of times IT doesn't even know where they're at. You know, these are things that are going to go from a line of business, and all of a sudden become production, have to become production, and IT needs a way to manage that. Rail gives them a way to go in and manage that infrastructure, at a scalable way, and move it from a line of business, into production. >> I'll give you another face-melting, do you mind? >> I'm not calling the shots. >> Bring it on. >> Is your face OK? >> My face is getting there. >> I want to see it like, melted Keith, just melted. People have asked me is that a good thing? And, yeah, it's a great thing. (laughing) So, we were talking about a particular customer, I dunno whether we can name them, can we name them? >> I don't know if we could, I haven't asked. >> OK so-- >> What industry? >> Financial Services. >> And, basically, they use the PCF stack on VxRail, and they're currently using it, for pre-prod. >> Exactly, so they're building all the testing applications to test their classic applications, that are running on VxBlock. >> So they've got a production environment that's like, big, classic, VxBlock, also my former baby, so and I love all my children equally, right. What they are finding is that the simplicity of the PCF on the VxRail Model, is so wonderful and fast and great. But when they want to try and do a capacity add on a VxBlock, or to do an update, like an RCM, it's a lot harder here than it is over here, right. I guarantee at that customer, what they're eventually going to discover is this has been awesome, we're going to keep using VxBlock for something else, but we're not going to deploy PCF, PaaS and PKS, on a VxBlock. >> Exactly, and this is going to trigger refactoring of all those workloads, that say, can I refactor these to be Cloud Native, right. If I can iterate my testing that quickly, can I iterate my production applications that quickly. >> And the ROI on that refactoring is? Fill in the blank. >> No, no it is like a thousand to one. So, again, this is a very hard thing to imagine. >> Talk about business impact. Not financial, but-- >> I'll give you one example that I'm so happy that they actually posted this to YouTube, because the customer's voice in this is incredible. If you YouTube, From zero to 12 million, T-mobile. OK, so this is not me saying it, you can go and you can see it themselves. T-mobile basically, and to all of you T-mobile, you know, subscribers out there, anyone of you guys use T-mobile? I use T-mobile, so, in any case, they have a single, giant, Java app that has a thousand functions in it, right. So, just imagine one app, sitting on a app server, like web-sphere or whatever, and inside that app, there's a thousand API calls, functions, and purposes, right. And because it's so big and monolithic, but this is critical, this is like the thing that runs their ordering systems and like, subscriber functions. It's the heart of the business that any time they needed to update it, to do like a patch, would take seven months. If they wanted to scale it, so like the iPhone launch is coming up, we need to get like three times as much capacity to handle all these iPhone orders in September, it would take them seven months of planning, work et cetera et cetera. >> Sure. >> Sakac: Everyone goes, I could visualize that. Right? >> Right. >> They took one function, just one, and pulled it out, and they said, we're going to do a project, we're going to take this function called, Get Usage, which, as you can imagine, basically pulls up the subscriber's usage data, and we're going to make it into a small micro-service, and we're going to run it on a PaaS, OK. Within five months, that function was getting used 12 million times a day, and they were able to do three CVE updates, so in other words, a Critical Vulnerability Patch, comes out, they were able to do it in real-time. They have eight platform operators, just eight, that are supporting 5,000 developers, sorry 500 developers. Eight, 500. Now, if you look at that and go, what does it mean for them? Well, they reduced the number of outages by almost 90%, the time for an outage went down by 63%, the developers and the dev-ops team are now happy, because this thing auto-scales itself. >> Dave: Ching ching. >> Ching ching, ching, right? >> Right, dudes, we got to go. Chad squared, thank you so much for coming on. >> Thank you, Guys. >> You OK? >> I'm good. >> Your face is melted. >> Your face melted? >> I have water. >> Splash it on your face to bring it back. >> Really, always great seeing you guys, thank you so much. >> Thanks, Dave, it's always good to be on here. >> Thanks very much. Keep right there, everybody, we'll be right back to wrap, right after this short break. (soft music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Jose, it's The Cube. Presenting Big Data, Silicon Valley. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to The Cube, we are live in San Jose at Forager Eatery, a really cool place down the street from the Strata Data Conference. This is our 10th big data event, we call this BigData SV, we've done five here, five in New York, and this is our day one of coverage, I'm Lisa Martin with my co-host George Gilbert, and we're joined by a Cube alumni, Jacque Istok, the head of data from Pivotal. Welcome back to the cube, Jacque. >> Thank you, it's great to be here. >> So, just recently you guys announced, Pivotal announced, the GA of your Kubernetes-based Pivotal container service, PKS following this initial beta that you guys released last year, tell us about that, what's the main idea behind PKS? >> So, as we were talking about earlier, we've had this opinionated platform as a service for the last couple of years, it's taken off, but it really requires a very specific methodology for deploying microservices and kind of next gen applications, and what we've seen with the ground swell behind Kubernetes is a very seamless way where we can not just do our opinionated applications, we can do any applications leveraging Kubernetes. In addition, it actually allows us to again, kind of have an opinionated way to work with stateful, stateful data, if you will. And so, what you'll see is two of the main things we have going on, again, if you look at both of those products they're all managed by a thing we call Bosch and Bosch allows for not just the ease of installation, but also the actual operation of the entire platform. And so, what we're seeing is the ability to do day two operations not just around just the apps, not just the platform, but also the data products that run within it. And you'll see later this year as we continue to evolve our data products running on top of either the PKS product or the PCF product. >> Quick question before you jump in George, so you talk about some of the technology benefits and reasoning for that, from a customer perspective, what are some of the key benefits that you've designed this for, or challenges to solve? >> I'd say the key benefits, one is convenience and ease of installation, and operationalization. Kubernetes seems to have basically become the standard for being able to deploy containers, whether its on Pram or off Pram, and having an enterprise solution to do that is something that customers are actually really looking towards, in fact, we had sold about a dozen of these products even before it was GA there was so much excitement around it. But, beyond that, I think we've been really focused on this idea of digital transformation. So Pivotal's whole talk track really is changing how companies build software. And I think the introduction of PKS really takes us to the next level, which is that there's no digital transformation without data, and basically Kubernetes and PKS allow us to implement that and perform for our customers. >> This is really a facilitator of a company's digital transformation journey. >> Correct. In a very easy and convenient way, and I think, you know, whether it's our generation, or, you know, what's going on in just technology, but everybody is so focused on convenience, push button, I just want it to work. I don't want to have to dig into the details. >> So this picks up on a theme we've been pounding on for a couple of years on our side, which is the infrastructure was too hard to stand up and operate >> Male Speaker: Yeah. >> But now that we're beginning to solve some of those problems, talk about some of the use case. Let's pick GE because that's a flagship customer, start with some of the big outcomes, some of the big business outcomes they're shooting for and then how some of the pivotal products map into that. >> Sure, so there's a lot of use cases. Obviously, GE is both a large organization, as well as an investor inside of Pivotal. A lot of different things we can talk about one that comes to mind out of the gate is we've got a data suite we sell in addition to PKS and PCF, and within that data suite there are a couple of products, green plum being one of them. Green plum is this open source MPP data platform. Probably one of the most successful implementations within GE is this ability to actually consolidate a bunch of different ERP data and have people be able to querey it, again, cheaply, easily, effectively and there are a lot of different ways you can implement a solution like that. I think what's attractive to these guys specifically around green plum is that it leverages, you know, standard ANSI SQL, it scales to pedobytes of data, we have this ability to do on pram and off pram I was actually at the Gartner Conference earlier this week and walking around the show it was actually somewhat eye opening to me to be able to see that if you look at just that one product, there really isn't a competitive product that was being showcased that was open source, multi cloud, analytical in nature, et cetera. And so I think, again, to get back to the GE scenario, what was attractive to them was everything they're doing on pram can move to the cloud, whether it's Google, Azure, Amazon they can literally run the exact same product and the exact same queries. If you extend it beyond that particular use case, there are other use cases that are more real time, and again, inside of the data suite, we've got another product called gem fire, which is an in-memory data grid that allows for this rapid ingest, so you can kind of think and imagine whether it's jet engines, or whether it's wind turbines data is constantly being generated, and our ability to take that data in real time, ingest it, actually perform analytics on it as it comes in, so, again, kind of a loose example would be if you know the heat tolerance of a wind turbine is between this temperature and this temperature, do something: send an alarm, shut it down, et cetera. If you can do that in real time, you can actually save millions of dollars by not letting that turbine fail. >> Okay, it sounds here like the gem fire product and the green plum DBMS are very complimentary. You know, one is speed, and one is sort of throughput. And we've seen almost like with Hadupen overreaction in turning a coherent platform into a bunch of building blocks. >> Male Speaker: Yes. >> And with green plum you have everything packaged together. Would it be proper to think of green plum as combining the best of the data link and the data warehouse where you've got the data scientists and data engineers with what would have been another product and the business analysts and the BI crowd satisfied with the same product, but what would have been another? >> Male Speaker: So, I'd say you're spot on. What is super interesting to me is, one, I've been doing data warehousing now for, I don't know, 20 years, and for the last five, I've kind of felt like data warehouse, just the term, was equivalent to the mainframe. So, I actually kind of relegated it the I'm not going to use that term anymore, but with the advent of the cloud and with other products that are out there we're seeing this resurgence where the data warehouse is cool again, and I think part of it is because we had this shift where we had really expensive products doing the classic EDW and it was too rigid, and it was too expensive, and Haduke sort of came on and everyone was like hey this is really easy, this is really cheap, we can store whatever we want, we can do any kind of analytics, and I think, I was saying before, the love affair with piecing all of that together is kind of over and I also think, it's funny, it was really hard for organizations to successfully stand up a Haduke platform, and I think the metric we hear is fifty percent of them fail, right, so part of that, I believe is because there just aren't enough people to be able to do what needed to be done. So, interestingly enough, because of those failures, because the Haduke ecosystem didn't quite integrate into the classic enterprise, products like green plum are suddenly very popular. I was just seeing our downloads for the open source part of green plum, and we're literally, at this juncture seeing 1500 distinct customers leveraging the open source product, so I feel like we're on kind of this upswing of getting everybody to understand that you don't have to go to Haduke to be able to do structured to unstructured data at scale. You can actually use some of these other products. >> Female Speaker: Sorry George, quickly, being in the industry for 20 years, we talk about, you know, culture a lot, and we say cultural shift. People started embracing Haduke, we can dump everything that data lake turned into swamps. I'm curious though, what is that, maybe it's not a cultural shift, maybe it's a cultural roller coaster, like, mainframes are cool again. Give us your perspective on how you've helped companies like GE sort of as technology waves come really kind of help design and maybe drive a culture that embraces the velocity of this change. >> Sure, so one of the things we do a lot is help our customers better leverage technology, and really kind of train it. So, we have a couple different aspects to pivotal. One of them is our labs aspect, and effectively that is our ability to teach people how to better build applications, how to better do data science, how to better do data engineering. Now, when we come in, we have an opinionated way to do all those things, and when a customer embraces it it actually opens up a lot of doors. So we're somewhat technology agnostic, which aids in your question, right, so we can come in, we're not trying to push a specific technology, we're trying to push a methodology and an end goal and solution. And I think, you know, often times of course that end goal and solution is best met by our products, but to your point about the roller coaster, it seems as though as we have evolved there is a notion that data will, from an organization, will all come together in a common object store, and then the ability to quickly be able to spin up an analytical or a programmmatic interface within that data is super important and that's where we're kind of leaning, and that's where I think this idea of convenience being able to push button instantiate a green plum cluster, push button instantiate a gem fire grid so that you can do analytics or you can take actions on it is so super important. >> Male Speaker: You said something that sounds really important which is we want to get it sounded like you were alluding to a single source of truth, and then you spin up whatever compute, you bring it to the data. But there's an emerging, still early school of thought which is maybe the single source of truth should be a hub centered around real time streams. >> Male Speaker: Sure. Yeah. >> How does Pivotal play in that role? >> So, there are a lot of products that can help facilitate that including our own. I would say that there is a broad ecosystem that kind of says, if I was going to start an organization today there are a number of vertical products I would need in order to be successful with data. One of the would be just a standard relational database. And if I pause there for a second, if you look at it, there is definitely a move toward building microservices so that you can glue all those pieces together. Those microservices require smaller, simpler relational type databases, or you know, SQL type databases on the front end, but they become simpler and simpler where I think if I was Oracle or some of the more stalwart on the relational side, it's not about how many widgets you can put into the database, it's really about it's simplicity and performance. From there, having some kind of message queue or system to be able to take the changes and the updates of the data down the line so that, not so much IT providing it to an end user, but more self service, being able to subscribe to the data that I care about. And again, going back to the simplicity, me as an end user being able to take control of my destiny and use whatever product or technology makes the most sense to me and if I sort of dovetail on the side of that, we've focused so much this year on convenience and flexibility that I think it is now at a spot where all of the innovations that we're doing in the Amazon marketplace on green plum, all of those innovations are actually leading us to the same types of innovations in data deployments on top of Kubernetes. And so two of them that come to mind, I felt like, I was in front of a group last week and we were presenting some of the things we had done, and one of them was self-healing of green plum and so it's often been said that these big analytical solutions are really hard to operate and through our innovations we're able to have, if a segment goes down or a host goes down, or network problems, through the implementation the system will actually self heal itself, so all of a sudden the operational needs become quite a bit less. In addition, we've also created this automatic snapshotting capability which allows, I think our last benchmark we did about a pedobyte of data in less than three minutes, so suddenly you've got this operational stalwart, almost a database as a service without really being a service really just this living breathing thing. And that kind of dovetails back to where we're trying to make all of our products perform in a way that customers can just use them and not worry about the nuts and bolts of it. >> Female Speaker: So last question, we've got about 30 seconds left. You mentioned a lot of technologies but you mentioned methodology. Is that approach from Pivotal one of the defining competitive advantages that you deliver to the market? >> Male Speaker: It is 100 per cent one of our defining our defining things. Our methodology is what is enabling our customers to be successful and it actually allows me to say we've partnered with postcrestkampf and green plum summit this year is next month in April and the theme of that is hashtag data tells the story. And so, from our standpoint, green plum is continuing to take off, gem fire is continuing to take off, Kubernetes is continuing to take off, PCF is continuing to take off, but we believe that digital transformation doesn't happen without data. We think data tells a story. I'm here to encourage everyone to come to green plum summit, I'm also here to encourage everyone to share their stories with us on twitter, hashtag data tells a story, so that we can continue to broaden this ecosystem. >> Female Speaker: Hahtag data tells a story. Jacque, thanks so much for carving out some time this week to come back to the cube and share what's new and differentiating at Pivotal. >> Thank you. >> We want to thank you for watching The Cube. I'm Lisa Martin with my co-host George Gilbert. We are live at Big Data SV, our tenth big data event come down here, see us, we're in San Jose at Forrager eatery, we've got a great party tonight and also tomorrow morning at eight am we've got a breakfast briefing you wont' want to miss. Stick around, we'll be back with our next guest after a short break.

>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering Samsung Developer Conference 2017, brought to you by Samsung. >> Hello, everyone. Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage, exclusive coverage of Samsung Developer Conference, SDC 2017. I'm John Furrier, the co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media. Next guest is Patrick Moorhead who is the president and principal analyst at Moor Insights and Strategy, friend of theCUBE. We see him everywhere we go. He's quoted in the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, all the top publications, and today, he was just on Power Lunch on CNBC. Here for our Power Cube segment, welcome to theCUBE. Good to see you again. >> Hey, thanks for being here, and I appreciate you putting up with me heckling you from outside of theCUBE. >> Always great to have you on. Hard hitting, you're one of the best analysts in the business. We know you work hard, we see you at all the events that we go to. I got to get your take, Samsung. Obviously now obviously you run in parallel, at some point on Amazon, obviously winning in the cloud. Samsung downplaying their cloud, but calling about smart things. I get that, the cloud is kind of fragmented, they're trying to hide the ball there, I get that. But they talk about IOT which you got to talk about cloud without IOT, what's your analysis of Samsung? >> Yeah so first off, Samsung is a collection of really really successful stovepiped companies, right? You have displays, you have semiconductors, you have mobile phones, you have all these different areas and they say a lot of times your strength is sometimes your weakness, and the divisions just don't talk a whole lot. But what they did, and this is the first time I've seen this in a long time, is they got on the same page and said you know, we have to work together because IOT and connected and intelligent connectedness can't be done in stovepipes, we can't all go do our thing. So they're agreeing on standards, they're doing some really good stuff. >> And obviously we know from the cloud game now go back to the enterprises, more consumer, backing in from the edge, obviously the edge being devices and other things, I get that. But now the horizontally scalable nature of the cloud is the holy grail, we've seen Amazon's success continue to boom, they do more compute than any other cloud out I think combined. Maybe outside Google with their internal cloud. That horizontal resource pool, serverless as example trend, IOT, you got to have, the stovepipes got to be decimated. However, you need specialism at the application level. >> That's exactly right, and a smartphone will act a little bit differently from a camera which would be different from a refrigerator as we saw, right? Samsung wants the new meeting area to be, well not the new meeting area, we all meet in the kitchen, but the connected meeting area. So they all act differently, so they have to have even though they're different devices they have to connect into that horizontal cloud to make it efficient enough and effective enough for good responsiveness. >> I like the message of smart things, I think that's phenomenal, and I like that 'cause it connects their things, which are consumer things, and people like 'em, like you said very successful stovepipes. The question that I ask here and I try to get the execs to talk about it but they weren't answering yet, and I think it's by design. They're not talking about the data. Because again at the end of the day what's different from Alibaba again last week when I was in China, they are very up front. We're all about data acquisition and using the data to fuel the user experience. >> Right. >> That has to traverse across stovepipes. So is Samsung baked in that area, they have things going on, what's your analysis of data traversal across, is Bixby 2.0 the answer? >> So companies have to take, particularly consumer companies related to the cloud, have to have one or two paths. The one that says, we're not going to mine personal data to either sell you products or run ads, so Facebook, AWS and even Google, that's their business model, and then the other side you have people like Apple who are only going to use the data to make the products and experiences better. I think, I'll just pontificate here, the reason you're not getting a straight answer is I don't think they know exactly what they want to do yet. Because look at the market cap of Facebook. Apple, and even Amazon is planning to start and expand their own ad network. So I just don't think they know yet. Now what I would recommend to them is- >> Or they might not have visibility on it product-wise. So there's knowing what to do, or how to do it, versus the product capability. >> Well they have access to a ton of data, so if you're using Samsung Mail, if you're using, they know every application gets deleted, usage models of those applications. So they know a lot more than I think people think. They have a lot more data than people probably give them credit for. >> So they're going to hide the ball, I think they said that they're buying more time, I would agree with you there. Alright, question on IOT. Do you think that hangs together, that strategy? Obviously security updates to chip-level, that's one thing, can they succeed with IOT in this emerging stovepipe collapse fabric that they're bringing out? >> So I need to do a little bit more research on the security and also their scalability. 'Cause if you're going to connect billions of devices you have to have scalability and we already saw what GE Predix did, right? They did an about-face and partnered up with AWS realizing they just couldn't handle the scale and the complexity. And the second thing is the security model and how things like RM Embed Cloud and the latest announcements from Intel which is how from a gateway perspective you secure this work. So I have to go do some research on this. >> And by the way it's a moving train, you mentioned the GE thing, great example, I mean let's take that example, I got to ask you about cloud, because let's talk about Amazon, Cloud Foundry. Cloud Foundry became this thing and Pivotal tried to take and shape it, now they're claiming huge success, some are questioning the numbers. They're claiming victory on one hand, and I hear record, record, record! But I just don't see any cloud on Cloud Foundry out there. >> Yeah and I think the reason is, PCF, Pivotal Cloud Foundry is a Fortune 500 thing. And if I compare Fortune 500 to startups and other people, there's not nearly as much activity in the Fortune 500 as there is with the startups and the cloud native companies. So I'm optimistic. >> So you're saying Pivotal Cloud is more Fortune 500, less cloud native? >> Exactly, exactly. >> How about Amazon, what's your take, I know you were on Power Lunch kind of, now you're on the Power Cube, our new segment that you just invented by being here. (laughing) What is the Amazon take, 'cause that Reinvent event's coming up, what's the preview? Obviously we're going to have some one on ones with Jassi and the team beforehand, theCUBE will be there with two sets to come on if you're going to be there I'd love to have you on. >> I'd love to. >> Again, what's the preview for AWS Reinvent? >> AWS right, they had a seven-year headstart on almost everybody and then Azure and GCP just recently jumped in, and if you notice over the past year they've been firing canons at each other. One vendor says hey, I do by the minute pricing, and then another one says, oh, I have the by-the-second pricing, right, and I'm going to accept VMWare, oh no I'm not doing VMWare, I'm doing SAP. So what you have now is a feature fest and a fistfight now. AWS is no longer the only man standing here. So what I'm expecting is they are going to come in and make the case that, okay, we still are the best choice not just for IAS but also for PAS, okay? Because they have a lot of competition. And also I think they're going to fill in gaps in some of the regional services where oh they don't have GPUs in a certain country. Oh, I don't have FPGAs over here. I think they're going to fill that in to look better against GCP and Azure. >> I know you cover Intel as well, I was just over there and saw some of the folks there, I saw some of the Linux Foundation folks, obviously you're seeing Intel be more a computing company, not a chip company anymore, they have that Five-G end to end UK Mind and Mobile World Congress, talked a little bit about Five-G. End-to-end is big message here at Samsung, how is Intel positioned in all this, what's your take on Intel? >> Yes so I think related to Intel, I think in some areas they're competitors, because they have their own gateway solutions, they don't have cloud solutions but they have the gateway solutions. Regarding to some of the endpoints, Intel has exited the small cork endpoints in watches, so I would say right now there's less overlap with Intel now. >> From Samsung perspective? >> Exactly, now on the back end it's more than likely there's a 99% chance that the back end doing the cloud processing is going to be Intel. >> If I'm Samsung, why wouldn't I want to partner within Samsung? 'Cause they make their own chips, is that the issue or is it more a...? >> No, I think Samsung up until this point hasn't taken a lot of responsibility for the cloud. So this is a first step, and I think it would make a good partnership. >> And Intel could get the home theater market, the home, how connected home is, but every CES going back 10 years has been a connected home theme. Finally they could get it here. >> That's right, and I have seen Intel get into things, a lot of Amazon's products with the cameras in the bedroom and in the bathroom, scary stuff. But Movidius, silicon that's doing object recognition, that is a place where I think they compete which frankly Samsung could develop the silicon but they just don't have it. Silicon doesn't have capability that a Movidius has. That can be used in any type of camera. >> Okay so final question I know we got to break here and I appreciate you coming on, making room for you, PowerCUBE segment here in San Francisco at SDC 2017. Ecosystem, we hear the host of SDC, Thomas Coe, come up and saying we're going to be honest and transparent to the community here at large in San Francisco and around the globe, kind of incurring that they've been kind of stovepiped and they're going to open up, they believe in open cloud, open IOT, and he talks about ecosystem, I'm not seeing a lot of ecosystem partners around here. What does Samsung need to do to, well first of all, what's your letter grade on the ecosystem and certainly they got an opportunity. What moves should they be making to build a robust healthy ecosystem, because we know you can't do it end to end without support in the white spaces. >> Yeah so I go to a lot of the developer conferences, whether it's Microsoft Build, Apple WWDC, and even the enterprise ones, and this is a smaller, low-key event and I think first and foremost, operating system drives a lot of the ecosystem. And other than Tizen they don't have an operating system. So what they're doing is they're working on the connectedness of it, which is a different kind of ecosystems, it's farther up in the stack, but I think what they can do is they have to be very clear and differentiated and I think back to our earlier, our first conversation, they're not going to mine the data, therefore they're the safe place for you, consumer and our smart things ecosystem, to put your data. And we're going to help you make money to do that, because I don't think Google is as interested in that and I don't think Amazon is as interested in that either. >> They were clear, they said permission-based and even if they don't know what their permission is offering we're going to take the conservative route and protect the data, but they still got to use the data. They got to get their cloud story together, if they want to do the data play, cloud has to be more clear at least in my mind. >> Well I think what they can do is they're sitting on and they will sit on a bigger treasure trove of data that can help their partners deliver better experiences and products, because if you're at the epicenter and you're at that smart things hub? You know everything that's going on in that home whether it's your stuff or your partner's stuff. >> Yeah and they got to be trusted, and they got to be transparent, okay. Patrick Moorhead from Moorhead Insights here on theCUBE, great analyst, follow him everywhere on Twitter, your Twitter handle is, let me just get the Twitter handle. >> It's @patrickmoorhead. >> Okay, @patrickmoorhead on Twitter. He travels the world, gets the data and so does theCUBE, traveling for you, this is John Furrier. More after this short break. (electronic beats)

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's theCUBE covering VMworld 2017. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Good night everybody, this is Dave Vellante with Peter Burris and we are live here at VMworld 2017. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. Kevin Gray is here as the director of product marketing for hybrid cloud platforms at Dell EMC. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thanks. >> OK, so, we're here talking cloud, everybody's cloud crazy, but it seems like, as Peter said, the technology has matured. >> Kevin: Yeah. >> And we're actually at a point where we can deliver what we've been talking about for the past five or six years. So how does that relate to what you guys have, what are you showing here at the event, and what are customers saying? >> Peter: Yeah, what are the announcements? What's happening? >> Well, one of the things we're announcing is enhancements to Enterprise Hybrid Cloud. You've heard a lot at VMware about VMware Cloud Foundation with added support for the extract SDDC, which is our turnkey VMware cloud foundation platform. We've also enhanced support for VxRail, so we've added multi-site capabilities, so we now support up to four data center sites, and we've also added support for disaster recovery through Recover Point VM. We're also added support for native hybrid cloud, so with native hybrid cloud we now have a support for... we have a new turnkey platform for VxRail, and we're supporting our new access testing tool, which is really focused on helping developers, right? So what the access testing tool does is it really focuses on when companies are going through and really looking at re-factoring applications for things like when they're going to microservices, it has that ability to really go out and test to make sure the dependencies and services are still there. We also have a capability around called our Application Deployment Tool, which really pushes, as you look to push an application out to multiple instances of foundations of Pivotal Cloud Foundry, you can actually help, it does that in one push. So if you look at PCF, you can use a CF pushkim, and push it out to multiple instances, and in this case, it'll do that in one step. >> So that's all the things that you've done on an individual announcements basis in the tools, but Kevin, let's step back. Let's take the customer's perspective for a second. When you summarize all this-- >> Right. >> So you're standing in front of a customer and you're saying to the customer, "We are pointing towards this vision." >> Right. >> "We want you to be here with us." What is that here? Where do you want them to be as you start to think about designing and priority for this broad portfolio that you have? >> So you heard Bob talk a little bit about sort of customers buying more outcomes, per se, and one of the things you'll see, with for instance our native hybrid cloud, is that ability to really get a repeatable process with Pivotal Cloud Foundry. So if you look at Pivotal Cloud Foundry, they're moving real fast, right? They have a release every 90 days, pretty much, and you need to be on the latest release within nine months-- >> Let me make sure that I understand this. >> When you say "repeatable process "with Pivotal Cloud Foundry," what you're talking about is that the organization, the shop, can think about developing an application in Pivotal, deploying it out on Cloud Foundry, and then running it on whatever underlying hybrid or conversion for structure that they might want and being able to do that over and over and over, so they can increase their focus on the application function that they're generatng. Is that basically what you mean? >> Absolutely, and-- >> So it's that level of repeatability. Focus on the business problem, build it, and then take the pain and suffering out of deploying it wherever it needs to be. >> Absolutely, and maintaining it. So if we look at large customers, as I mentioned, one large financial institution was looking at how do they do this repeatably across multiple data center sites, right? And how do they keep pace with that change over time, you know? That's not an easy process when you're moving really fast, and it's just one of those things where they tried to do it themselves for a while and realized it's better to buy that outcome than to try and create it on their own. >> You know, Dave, I was talking to a large user here on the show floor not too long ago, yesterday, in fact, about the fact that DevOps is not taking the world by storm the way that many people thought it might, and he identified specifically, one of the reasons is because there's not enough support from the technology companies to start packaging and organizing their capabilities, their technology set, their product sets, to support a DevOps mentality. It almost sounds, you haven't said this, Kevin, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it almost sounds as if what you guys are saying is, we're going to start designing and packaging and organizing our systems to support that sort of DevOps orientation so the system administrators can evolve in the way that they need to evolve as the business demands new change. >> Yeah, so if you look at our hybrid cloud platforms, they're really intended to be that easy button for deploying either a full vRealize Suite, vRealize Suites stacked in our Enterprise Hybrid Cloud, or Pivotal Cloud Foundry for native hybrid cloud. Another thing we introduced this week was our ready systems. We have ready systems for VMware and we have ready systems for Pivotal. If you look at the VMware ready system, one of the things we found, for VMware, one of the things we found was that many customers, if you look at Enterprise Hybrid Cloud, it gives you a lot of benefits that a lot of our large enterprise customers are looking for, so, it supports multiple sites, it supports disaster protection, and it supports a turnkey platform where it's an engineered system, but for a lot of customers, it meant that you were always a couple of releases behind. So we give them that experience, right? And we make it a little bit, we give them an opportunity with the ready system to get that support from VMware, where we'll take on the HCI piece and support it. Same thing with native hybrid cloud and our Pivotal Cloud Foundry, Pivotal ready system, you know, they'll get their support from PCF, from Pivotal, but they'll build it on HCI. And we're also introducing a Pivotal ready system based on PKS. And I think PKS is interesting, simply because if you look at the Kubernetes environment and the work that's been done with Kubo, it's really a platform that's more likely where people are going to want to build, right? If you look at those people that are doing it, they want more control over, you know, their build process and their pipeline, and therefore they're more likely to build, and with the PKS system, the ready system based on Pivotal, Pivotal ready system, they can get that outcome. >> So at the end of the day it's all about changing the operating model, >> Kevin: Absolutely. >> And having a business impact. Peter, we were in our Palo Alto studio, and one of our clients was in, very prominent end user and market practitioner, saying if you can't change the operating model, you know, you might get a little bit of business benefit, but if you're a large company, you're never going to take a billion dollars of cost out. So my question is, what are you guys seeing, are you being able to affect the operating model, and can you share any of your favorite examples or even generic sort of proof points? >> Sure, absolutely. We had one customer, CICC, they're a large HR outsourcer in China, and by implementing Enterprise Hybrid Cloud, they were able to accelerate the time it took to get new application services by 60%. This is simply a means of taking IT out of the middle and really being able to accelerate delivery of-- >> Peter: We're taking certain tasks-- >> Exactly. >> Peter: That IT performs. It's not necessarily taking IT out, it's taking those low-value tasks out, right? >> Kevin: Absolutely. You know, self-service portal pieces, exactly, so-- >> Dave: And then maybe re-deploying those resources to higher-value activities. >> Kevin: Absolutely. Right. So those are the types of outcomes. We also see, if you look at Pivotal and some of the capabilities they have, if you look at sort of traditional IT infrastructure we see many customers moving to, you know, daily, weekly releases, as opposed to, if you think of a traditional model, it would be a much longer process, so that's the type of outcome we see as well. >> Dave: Well, one of the things you've been saying for years, I think Benioff stole it from you, is there's going to be way more SAAS companies coming out of non-tech companies than tech companies to your point, everybody's now a software company, and they're releasing code on a constant basis, but they're not technology companies, so they need help, right? >> He might not have stolen it from me, but it's a nice validation point. And I think we said it before he did. >> Just kidding, Marc. Alright, Kevin, hey thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. We really appreciate having you. >> Appreciate it. Thanks. >> Alright, keep right there everybody, we'll be back with our next guest. This is theCUBE, we're live from Las Vegas Mandalay Bay. Day three, VMworld 2017. We'll be right back. >> Thank you.

>> Commentator: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube. Covering VM World 2017. Brought to you by VMWare and its ecosystem partner. >> Welcome back to The Cube, we are live covering VMWorld 2017, day two of coverage. I'm Lisa Martin with my co host Stu Miniman, we've had a great morning, main stage, Michael Dell, Patt Gelsinger, Google, et cetera. We're excited to be joined by Doctor Sadir, Sadir is kind of awesome, the CTO of Dell EMC, Stewart, welcome to The Cube! >> Thank you, thanks for having me. >> We're excited to have you here, so you were an EMC guy, we talked about that. When people think of Dell, they think of, well maybe used to, PCs, when they think of EMC they think of storage arrays, talk to us about, you know, one year post combination almost, how has your customers' perception changed, what have you heard in the last year? >> Sure yeah, it's been a pretty dramatic change, I would say in the sense of about a year ago when the deal was, or actually two years ago when the deal was first announced that it would be happening there was a lot of skepticism in the customer base obviously around A, what does this mean, how's it going to come together? I think a year into it people started to see some initial signs of better together. And now a year later we're seeing dramatic, dramatic positive energy and feedback from customer base on how, when they're actually seeing the products and solutions coming together in a combined solution I think that's, I mean we used to joke in the old days where our products, you know, EMC's got our portfolio, and our products would only come together on the PO, that was the common joke inside. And I think that perception is changing quite a lot now. >> So bring us into the storage group, because it was one that you know, if you look there were a lot of places where there were no overlaps. Storage, there was a long partnership between Dell and EMC then Dell had acquired a couple of companies, EMC, as you said already had a very large portfolio so bring us inside a little bit, especially kind of with your, you know, your CTO, your technologist. What are those lenses you look through and where are we into, you know, things coming together soon? >> Sure, I think it's a great question, I know and thank you because one of the things that people miss is that the portfolio strategy is a conscious strategy, right? It is really hard to cover the entire spectrum of work loads, use cases with a single widget, if you will. And a lot of our competitors will try to convince customers of that and they're finding that out themselves that it's really hard to cover that gamut so I think fundamentally, first and foremost the portfolio strategy is very important now that said, it is acknowledged and I'll admit that it is perhaps more in the portfolio right now than perhaps is needed. And so that in fact is one of our first, one of our big priorities for this year is to simplify the portfolio because it's confusing for our customers and so we're definitely working towards that. You'll see that roll out starting next year. And then over the next few years. >> So on that front, and sort of maybe waiting things out to simplify, from an innovation perspective Michael Dell also talked on main stage this morning about the importance of customer innervation but I'd love to understand how if you can take us kind of more through that, how is Dell EMC innovating internally so that you can be leaders in innovation-- >> Yeah, that's a great question, it's a great question because you know when you have a multi billion dollar business everybody assumes it's really really hard to innovate and it is, there's no question because you've got a big business to sustain. Now but the, I completely agree with Michael, what he said on stage and what he said to us privately which is in fact Dick Egan used to say the same thing. Founder of EMC he was, if there's one thing that you should be comfortable with, it's change and because this industry is changing like crazy, and I've been in the industry now for what, coming up on 20 years. Seen a lot, you know from FDDI to wherever you're at today. And I'm still constantly amazed by how much change is going on even now. So we do believe in change, we believe in actually innovating constantly, and Jeff Budrow, one of my manager he's a big believer in change as well, we're working on a lump number of innovations internally, organic innovations, big innovations. I can't tell you much about that today but we'll hopefully as we get closer to the next year we'll be able to talk more about it. That said, we're innovating on our existing products as well, we've refreshed our entire portfolio at Dell EMC World earlier this year. At VMWorld just now we announced our availability of our X2 platform which is the next generation of the XGMIL platform, so we're constantly innovating and as a result it's more of a rolling thunder as opposed to like a big bang. >> So I kind of look at it, there's kind of two ways that things are changing along storage. Number one there's kind of the underneath pieces, so you talked about going from FDDI, you know when we saw from disk to flash for EMC was you know, early on that that kind of reemergence of flash after a couple of decades of it being you know, not used for awhile. We've got things like NVME, NVME over fabric coming out so we're going to start there, maybe by one o'clock after there's kind of the operating model on how we change things because we've converged and cloud and all those but on some of those underlying pieces which I know keep the storage people kind of really engaged, you know where are we today with some of those transitions, what are some of the things that you're looking at over the next kind of 12, 24, 36 months? >> Terrific, I mean I see actually three vectors of change impacting the storage business and impacting us. One is the media like you said, there's NVME and we'll talk a little bit more about that. There's actually a whole bunch of stuff beyond NVME right, storage class memory, persistent memory coming out. Second set of things is consumption models, what we call consumption model round, whether it's a cloud consumption model, where if you think of cloud actually more as a consumption model as opposed to a destination. And software defined is a big thing, I think that's going to dramatically change the game, especially when you combine it with things like persistent memory. And then the third thing I think is the new wave of applications as well, that's generating a whole new class of data and adds a whole new set of requirements. For example, real time streaming analytics, right, that changes the, you can't deal with block and file and object in those worlds, you're dealing with new semantics. So those are some of the vectors that we're looking at in terms of. >> So let's start with kind of the low level, the media, you know some of those things right, what is data, what is memory, you know all those things blurring. Where you know, I hear, there seems to be so many people NVME, NVME over fabrics seems to be-- >> Hey look, so let me hit that off right in front. Right so it was 10 years ago that Dell and EMC independently before obviously we were one company actually co founded the contortion that invented NVME so we saw the meat of this technology, the limitations of SAS and SATA 10 years ago, we saw this coming. We helped drive the standards including NVME over fabric standard, and that's like, well before some of these companies that are claiming NVME today weren't actually even born. So NVME to me is a journey, right there's the there's the bus, changing from the SAS bus to the NVME bus. That's one part, then there's the media that stands behind them all, the NVME transport. Things like 3D cross point that are starting to come out, and then even beyond that you get to really persistent memory type of applications. So we see this as a journey, we're going to be rolling our NVME in all our products across the entire portfolio starting this year, later this year. For first, today scale IO already supports NVME devices in 14G, so we're going to, you're going to see that. >> Yeah, I guess my follow up, just to dig in a little deeper because when we got the CTO you've got to dig down. There were some, when flash came out, they were like oh yeah, whatever, I'm going to throw a couple of percentage in, well we saw flash greatly change architectures, it changed some of those application considerations-- >> Absolutely. >> Especially you know, Wikibon's David Floyer has been beating on let's really look at databases, let's do this. NVME, is it an extension and kind of evolution or will this be a similar revolution to what we saw with flash? >> I think it's a similar revolution. It's a similar but perhaps less of a quantum leap, I would say. And the reason is because you're going from like 10s of milliseconds or milliseconds of latency with spinning media to sub millisecond with flash. Now you're going from sub millisecond to sub sub millisecond but you know, it's getting diminishing. I think where you're going to see a lot of dramatic is as it's more on the latency as you get as the applications get closer and closer to the servers. Right so I think you're going to see a lot of pretty dramatic change in that space. >> Speaking of change and revolution, the three vectors that you talked about, media, consumption models, this new wave of applications, how, ST to you are you seeing the buyers' journey change as a result of these vectors? >> So that's actually part two of the question that Stu was just asking is while I agree that it's going to be a revolution, what I've also seen in 20 years is that these things don't happen instantly, yes flash was a big change. But even today, over 40, 40, 50% of our revenue still comes from hybrid systems. Mixed flash and, so these things take time, right? So customers are taking leaps I would say I'm seeing a spread of the early adopters and, we're probably in the big medium, in the big, the bell curve right now and then there's some laggards as well that are still buying you know, pure HDD only systems. >> Do you see a difference there, sorry, with respect to industries, maybe healthcare or financial services that are early adopters? >> Definitely, I think, there's industries and there's also size of customer, right, the bigger the customer the more, eager we see they are in doing this digital transformation so we're seeing a lot of them going all in on software defined, right, so we're definitely seeing that shift from buying purpose build arrays to software defined. Now it's not going to be instantaneous, again it's going to be over many years, similarly in the mid range and below we're seeing a shift from, modular systems to hyper converged systems as well. So we're seeing that as well, we're seeing a lot of shift from purely on prem to a hybrid solution of on prem plus cloud, so all of our products are now attaching to the cloud as well. So we're definitely seeing all of these transitions. >> When it comes to the cloud native piece, there are some that have said well, it's kind of could be a kind of completely different way of doing things, really focused on the developers and won't that just live in the public cloud, or you know will SAS applications you know, be where a lot of those live, so you know what do you say to the, you've improved media, you've improved consumption models but, maybe they're just, it's easier for me not to own some of these pieces, one of the company, small companies, I don't want to deal with infrastructure at all, let me, you know, let me yeah-- >> Yeah that's another great, great question. What we are seeing I would say is definitely some of that. Especially as you said in the smaller companies it's easy for them to get started, right, with minimal initial expenses they can get started in the public cloud so we definitely see that. But as you get larger, what we're seeing is the economics of running everything in the cloud on a sustained basis, just don't work out, it's much more cost effective to run things on ground, so I think for cost reasons when you're running over a sustained operations as well as for security reasons, we're still seeing a lot of hesitation and especially as you get to the higher end of the market, people are concerned especially with all the breaches and things like that, that they're concerned about where their assets are. So we actually at Dell Technologies I would say, and Dell EMC in particular, we're seeing a pretty significant opportunity popping up where customers want to run on prem data centers just like the cloud. And that's where things like software defined storage become really important because hey, the public clouds are running all the software defined, that's their, one of the secrets to their agility and speed. Why can't we have that prem and we actually absolutely see that in fact today's announcement of PKS is right on the money for that. >> So we're here at VMWorld, with respect to that, seeing more customers want to bring things on prem maybe kind of the true private cloud that Wikibon's been talking about. What are you guys doing now with VM or to align that, we've heard a number of things about, yesterday with AWS you mentioned Pivotal today, Google, what's going on today with Dell EMC and WM Ware to help customers really build a solid on prem solution? >> Yeah so I think Pivotal is certainly a key piece of that, Pivotal, VM Ware, so the whole VM Ware cloud foundation, cloud suite is a key piece of that. The integration with PCF is actually going to be very key because what customers need, especially the traditional customers, if you will, who don't quite have the expertise yet to build cloud native applications, they need a platform, not just an infrastructure. So I think that's why Pivotal is very important. And we're working very closely with, as Dell EMC we're working closely with both of those partners in delivering those solutions, VX Rail is a good example of that. VX Rail, VX Rack are good examples of the two technologies coming together. And so those are the kinds of things, I think that's where software defined storage, you'll see a lot more integration between Dell EMC's software defined portfolio, with the VM Ware and Pivotal ecosystems. >> So the storage group you've talked about you have a lot of options, we've been talking about software defined storage, how that you know is driving a lot of the change there, gives a lot of flexibility there. How does the storage team look at things like VMAX and Extreme IO compared to the software defined storage these days? >> Yeah so I think we, I presume everybody's seen the famous chart where there's the traditional infrastructure and then there's the cloud native, the new world. And that's a transition that's going to happen and we think it's going to be a really long transition, right. Mainframes are not dead, right, so they're still alive. And there's a reason, because people are running their absolute mission critical application on those infrastructures so we think there's definitely going to be a place for both, and it isn't all or nothing. And that's, I think, going back to innovation, your question about it, where is Dell EMC innovating, we're the only company that's actually embracing these changes, this transition to software defined, right? Where with products like ECS and Scale IO and so on and so forth, so we see that the transitions will happen slowly but there's going to be a lot of opportunity for highly reliable, you know, six, seven, nines reliable infrastructure based on purpose built infrastructure. >> Yeah, it definitely matches a lot of as you said the true private cloud report that we have on Wikibon. >> Well thank you so much, Sadir, for joining us on The Cube, we now bring you into The Cube alumni, the illustrious Cube alumni category. >> Glad to be here. >> Lisa: And thank you for sharing your insights as CTO on what you're doing with customers and innovation. >> Sadir: Thank you very much. >> And we want to thank you for watching, I'm Lisa Martin. From my cohost Stu Miniman we are live covering day two of VM World 2017 from Las Vegas, stick around, we will be right back. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering VMworld 2017. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. (electronic music) >> Chad: Thank you. >> Welcome back to VMworld 2017 here in Las Vegas. I'm Dave Vellante with my co-host Peter Burris. This is Day 2. Chad Sakac is here. He's the president of Dell EMC, long-time CUBE guest, CUBE alumn. Chad, we were talking about eight years >> Yeah, it's crazy, man, it's been great. >> Dave: And you were one of the first. >> It's been great. I was thinking about it. What I love is it's always a great events where there's great things happening. And you guys ask killer, right to the point questions, and I always try to give killer, right to the point answers. >> Dave: All right, well let's get into it. Your ascendancy, personally, kind of coincided with VMware's explosion. You are down and dirty with the customers. So, first of all, congratulations on-- >> Thanks, dude. >> Dave: that role and being the president at Dell EMC. Awesome. >> I have a passion for it, Dave. Passion is the key, right? >> Okay, so we're all talking about cloud, right? Cloud first is something that you hear from customers all the time. I want to be cloud first. What does that mean to you, to Dell EMC, VMware? >> I think the first thing is is that to all of us, cloud is much more about an operating model than a place. And people have started to internalize that it's about changing the way that they operate their business, both for some of their traditional apps, as well as how they build cloud-native apps. That's the first thing. Operating model, not place. The second thing is, I think I'm seeing the customers in the market get a little more, I don't how to say this without sounding pejorative, but a little more mature in their view that the answer is going to have to be a hybrid model based on data and data gravity, based on elasticity of workloads, based on governance factors, that lead to hybrid being the answer. And if you think about what we've seen just in the last two days, VMware on AWS, Google partnering with VMware and Pivotal around Pivotal Container Services. Those are all about hybridizing both traditional IT and how people build new cloud applications. So operating model, not place. Hybrid is the answer. And the third thing is that it's multi. I still occasionally encounter somebody that says, "It's all going to be one cloud." And I'm like, "Okay, just out of curiosity, "does your definition of cloud include SalesForce.com?" "Well, yeah." "Does it include Office 365?" "Well, yeah." "Does it include AWS?" "Well, yeah." "Does it include your own private cloud?" "Well, yeah." "So, what are you talking about?" >> Peter: Where's the one? (laughs) >> Where's the one, right? And I think that there's a... Things start to matter once they move out of hyperbole and into pragmatism. >> Well, and when you paid attention, let's say four or five years ago, when you listened to Andy Jassy speak, the notion of hybrid cloud, or hybrid IT, or private cloud was not in his lexicon. And then yesterday, we saw him up on stage with Pat Gelsinger. They were talking about hybrid and private cloud. >> Chad: Well, by the way, I don't want to throw the dart at Andy. I think if you talked to Vmware or Dell EMC four or five years ago, public cloud wasn't in our-- >> Dave: Absolutely. >> (laughs) in our vernacular either. >> Dave: Absolutely, so those worlds have come together with the customer reality that says, "Well there isn't just one cloud. "And I can't just bring my business, "reform my business for the cloud." So what do you make of the fact that we've evolved as an industry and as a vendor community? >> I think it's time to get on to the brass tacks of solving the problems for the customers, ma'am. And I see actually that happening in the industry more and more. People are solving problems that they can't solve in their private clouds using public clouds. They're figuring out that the best place to put a dollar is to rebuild their applications using cloud-native principles. But they're also realizing that sometimes that it's not even a legitimate choice or option. And they're trying to figure out also, at the same time, "How do I support some of those "more traditional application stacks "and make them more automated and cloud-like, "even if they're not going to be cloud-native maybe ever." >> Peter: Let me jump in here for a minute. >> Dave: So this gets to the promise that you've got to make. And please jump in. >> Yeah, because in many respects, what we're really saying, let me test this with you, Pat, is that, ultimately, it may be one cloud, but that one cloud is going to be defined by the business and not by a particular vendor. >> Chad: It's a higher-order function. >> Peter: That's right. So what we like to say is we like to say, "You're not going to take your business to the cloud. "You're going to bring the cloud to your business." And your business attributes and your business characteristics, where you operate, how you operate, how you use data, who your customers are, how are you going to reach them, all those different things, the physical realities, the legal realities, the IP realities, all that's going to shape the architectural choices that you make regarding cloud. And you have to have a strategy for that becoming consistent and coherent for your business. So a lot of piece parts, but it becomes your cloud. Does that make sense to you? >> It makes sense to me. It means that it's an answer that involves a little more sophistication and nuance for the customer, because they've got to think about what it means for them. And the answer is not the same for every single customer. However, there are common base elements in that formula. Number one, digital transformation always starts with applications that are written using cloud-native principles, often using data fabrics that are modern distributed data fabrics. That's one piece. There's a consistent piece that says, "I'm going to leverage public and private cloud models." And the definition of which workload goes to one or another, like you said, is very much driven by data gravity. Compute tends to co-locate with the data against which it's computing. Governance rules, which is not security. Public and private clouds are equivalent. In some cases, one or the other is more secure than the other. But those are common elements. There's one other common element that I've learned over the last four years of being on the journey myself with many of our customers, which is that the only way that the on-premises part of cloud stacks work is through radical simplification and deploying their on-premises infrastructure using design and automation principles that look a lot more like the public cloud than they look like their most traditional IT. >> No, you're absolutely right. And I think that's a crucial point, that ultimately the physics of all this. >> Chad: Mm-hmm. >> And I agree, cloud is not a We like to say the cloud is not a place, it's a time. >> Chad: Yeah. >> Because at the end of the day, all this is defined by the realities of your data. >> Chad: Yep. >> And if your data can't If you don't have time to move the data or it's too expensive to move the data, that's going to dictate where the process actually runs. And I like the way you've redefined, I'll say redefined data gravity. Most people think data gravity, "Oh, once you put data in place, "it's going to accrete more gravity." And you're saying, "No, that's not the way to think about it. "It's going to accrete more function." >> Chad: Right. >> 100% agreement. And I don't think a lot of people are talking about things that way. >> By the way, the linkage to physics, I don't know how many of the viewers basically were physics majors, but it's actually related to quantum physics and mechanics. Information inherently can't simultaneously be in two places at once. That's a law of physics, right? >> Data, okay, keep going, keep going. >> If any bit, any information, basically, is connected between two points at the speed of light, that's not a function of vendor technology until someone-- >> Well, let me we get into quantum entanglement, nano >> Yeah. >> But I think where you are, where you're absolutely correct is that ultimately, that there is a cost to moving data. >> Chad: Bingo. Bingo >> And we have to start When we think about digital transformation, our approach is the difference between a digital business and a business is a digital business treats data as an asset and builds strategic capabilities to treat data as an asset and apply data as an asset. And one of the beauties of what you were saying earlier with simplification, is for example, the idea that if I build around data, >> Chad: Yup. >> then I can use hyper-converged, I can use converged, I can use Flash, I can use VC, and I can use all these different things to treat my data differently. >> And do it as simple as possible. The thing that I think I'll give you an example from this morning. I was meeting with a customer that's in the finance and insurance vertical, right? And they're pretty advanced down there, use of both public and private clouds. They've got a software-defined data center. And they're trying to basically redefine how they're using mobile apps and customer intelligence. They provide a ton of services. They're a great, great customer and a partner. But again, to highlight that cloud is a place, or a time, to use your vernacular, as they build their mobile app, sets of assets are running in a public cloud, the data was born in the public cloud, the compute is running in the public cloud, it's built around a cloud-native app principle using PCF and Kubernetes. Great! When that person is using that application, there's a moment when they go in and do a transaction where literally it's hitting a mainframe running DB2 in their core data center. >> And there's nothing wrong with that. >> And there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, that pattern is universal, right? And so it highlights basically that you've got to be a little practical about how you do this stuff. >> Okay, so in the limited time we have remaining, give us the the quick why Dell EMC, Dell EMC, VMware, why you guys Maybe talk a little bit about the portfolio. >> So if you look at this week, the one thing that jumps out, at least to me, I'm probably a little close to it, Dave, but I hope it jumps out to the viewers, right, is while we maintain an open ecosystem, Dell EMC has its open ecosystem, VMware has its ecosystem, Pivotal has its ecosystem, we're becoming much more opinionated, right? And that matters because customers want clarity. So I'll give you clarity. Clarity that jumped out on stage and it came out of the mouth of Pat, not me, was the easiest way to deploy VSAN is on VxRail. The easiest way to deploy VMware Cloud Foundation is on VxRack SDDC. Period, full stop. Now, why are we saying that so emphatically? It's because if you don't have a good foundation for an SDS and SDC, or SDC, SDS, and SDN, so software-defined network and compute and storage, in the case of VMware Cloud Foundation and VxRack SDDC, then your whole underpinning is just way too complex, right? So there's a very clear opinionated point of view that says hyper-converged infrastructure that's being built by the combined team is the way forward for customers who have standardized on vSphere. >> Well, and you nailed it earlier. If you're going to bring the cloud model to on-prem, to the data, it's got to be simple. >> Chad: Mm-hmm. >> Peter: That's the cloud model. >> That is the cloud model, right? And and without it, you can't fulfill that promise. With it, you can. >> I'll give you a second example. For the last four years, we've been supporting our customers with the Enterprise Hybrid Cloud. We've learned more about what does it take to lifecycle, manage, and deploy vRealize Suite on top of HCI, where we own the lifecycle, right? At the same time, VMware has been learning about, "What does it take to take vRealize and run it "in the VMware cloud on AWS, not as software, "but as a service?" And that's all about simplification and lifecycle management. What we're doing between VMware and Dell EMC is taking that knowledge and saying, "HCI is the foundation, and on top of that, "here's how you build your IaaS "for your traditional applications, "and the foundation for what's coming next." And then the last part that we saw today loud and clear is a strongly opinionated point of view that says PCF, Pivotal Cloud Foundry, is the best structured PaaS in the market, and a full embrace of Kubernetes, Pivotal Kubernetes Services, Pivotal Container Services using Kubernetes, is going to be the best way to build container as a service. How do you deploy it best? On vRealize. How do you deploy it best? On top of VxRack SDDC. It's pretty clear. >> Covered all the bases, we could go all day with you, but we're out of time. >> Yeah. >> Chad, thanks very much for coming on theCUBE yet again. Really appreciate it. >> It's my pleasure, guys, thank you. >> All right, keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. This is theCUBE. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Washington, DC, it's the Cube covering .NEXT Conference, brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back to NEXTConf everybody. This is the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante and I'm with Stu Miniman. This is the president's segment. Sudheesh Nair is back. Good to see you again, Sudheesh, the president of Nutanix. And Captain Canada himself, Chad Sakac. >> Dave. >> Cube alum, good friend. >> Dave, it's good to see you. >> Good to see you again. Stu. Hey everybody, most important thing, great, you know, .NEXTConf, but look, Canada Day, July 1st, is right around the corner. So remember, everybody, go have some poutine, drink some beers and celebrate. Then there's this July 4th thing that is apparently right around that. >> Yeah, well, it's important to us, 'cause we've ended an eight-week sprint of the Cube, so. >> Isn't Chad wearing red, white and blue? I think he's, uh ... >> I actually did that on purpose. You noticed! >> Here in DC, nice job. >> I figured when in DC, you know, celebrate Americana. >> Why not? Well, there's a lot of celebration going on here. You guys have been celebrating several years now. What is it? Two and a half years of ... >> With Dell, yes. With Chad it's relatively new, so ... (all laughing) >> It's actually been about three years, and it's been a ridiculously successful partnership. You know, I think ... >> I would say face-meltingly successful, but ... >> Yeah, you know what? I agree. >> Okay, so coming into this role, did you have misconceptions about Nutanix, or was that just marketing, when you were kind of ... >> No. Nutanix basically created the HCI category. They've been at it now for seven and change years. You know, great technology, very happy customers. I'd say out of the 6,200 or so Nutanix customers, roughly around 2,500, 2,700 are XC customers, so I've gotten to know them really well. They tell me pretty clearly what they like about Nutanix and what they like about XC. >> All right, so Chad, I'm looking at my notes here, and there was a guy Chad Sakac who said, "Niche corner case for VDI only," you know, that was Nutanix. >> Love it. >> You know, you're singing a little bit of a different story than we might've heard a couple of years ago. >> You know, I would say that it's important to acknowledge when you're wrong, Stu. You know, and I think that HCI in general has moved absolutely out of any corner case segment whatsoever. I met with a customer this morning that is basically a hospital that is running the bulk of all of their mission-critical customer healthcare records, packs, all on XC. And again, you know, I don't want to get us in trouble here at the .NEXT Conference, but we have an HCI portfolio, we see customers deploying HCI for every workload under the sun at this point. And frankly, I've said it publicly now, firmly and as clearly as I can, SDS and HCI models are ready for the majority of x86 workloads. That's not just my opinion, it's the company, it's Dell Technologies' point of view overall. >> You know, Joe Tucci was the master of sort of building an ecosystem with quasi-competitors, coop-etition, whatever you want to call it, and certainly the Dell/EMC relationship of many years ago was epic, one of the, probably the most successful storage relationship ever. So and, Sudheesh, you get a lot of concerns of Wall Street, when's this going to end? You guys used to get that all the time with Cisco and VC, and yet you continue to ... >> Still do. >> Yup. >> Chad: Still do. >> Valid questions, you know, it's the obvious place for analysts, snarky analysts to go. But in retrospect ... >> Chad: Is there such a thing as a non-snarky analyst? >> There're a couple, there're a couple out there. >> They're sitting here, right here. (Chad laughs) >> It is, getting paid ... >> After the comments that I've already gotten! >> It's getting paid to be snarky. >> That's what's fantastic, by the way. That's what's like watching Charlie Rose and Bill Clinton. Hard but smooth. >> So, if I go back into history, though ... I wish Michael were here, and I'll ask Michael, I know you watch, I'll you next time I see you. I wonder if he had to do it all over again, if he knew then what he knew now, if he would've just said, "You know what? "I'm going to do better just staying with the EMC partnership, "instead of going out and buying Equallogic or Compellent, "and we would've done better for customers, "might've made more money." I wonder if you've learned anything from that experience. I mean, you were biased, 'cause you were on the EMC side of that, obviously you didn't want to see Dell end that relationship, but are there similarities here? >> You know, I think that there's similarities, but there's a notable difference. When the Dell/EMC merger occurred, and the first time I came out to visit headquarters, I mean, lots of discussions with Sudheesh and with Dheeraj. There's a core thing here that's important to understand. The market is not in a zero-sum game. So if, if there's 6,200 Nutanix customers, 2,500 XC customers, roughly 3,000 VX Real customers, roughly 8,000 VSAN customers, you know how many VNX customers there are? 300,000. Do you know how many power-edge servers there are out there? 27 million. We're on the earliest days of the software-defined and HCI journey, and frankly, that's just the first step towards building hybrid clouds on-prem and off-prem that bridge one another, which has been a big part of the announcements from this week. >> Yeah, look, I think the first part of the question you asked, you got to be honest that, you know, when you flip sometimes TV channels, let's say you come across National Geographic, right? And then there's a cheetah chasing a deer. You stop, you want to watch. You know what's going to happen, the cheetah's going to eat the deer, one way or other, that's going to happen. You know it, but you want to watch it. The way we think of our industry, status quo is the cheetah. The deer is all of us, the moment you stop innovating. That is particularly true for companies like ours, young companies. The partnership that we have is not built on anything but the fact that we are adding more value for customers than what we would individually do. That's it. The sum of the parts of this should be higher than the individual parts, right? So what we have learned, for example, last quarter, you're absolutely right, financial analysts, they'll always ask us about the Dell EMC overhang. Last quarter, for example, we for the first time publicly talked about the fact that Dell EMC business was around eight to nine percent of our overall revenue. And it is not because that didn't grow. It is growing, but the overall business we are able to keep growing. Our destiny's in our hands, and it comes down to couple of things6: our ability to really accelerate innovation, because as a younger company, more agile, we are expected to do more, and you saw this morning. Number two, make sure that we are playing fair. There are rules of engagement that we are, because we know that they have tremendous amount of portfolio, and some of them will overlap, and that's okay. But you have to clearly define the rules of engagements, and be very fair in how we treat the partner. And if you do those two things right, we know that this is a relationship that'll last long time. >> And just a quick little add, I mean, the things that we bring is extending the platform's scale and reach. There's no question that you're a younger company, there's no question that we're a larger company. The number of customers that say, "We want the better together thing," and we give them that choice, it's very important for us to do that, but also add value. So whether it's integrating data protection, whether it's what we've done around running Cloud Foundry on top of XC. Home Depot talked about it. >> Classic example, yeah. >> It's a great example, where they want this, that, all together. Now I can't emphasize enough that what we've been trying to emphasize is be transparent, be consistent about those rules of engagement, and telling our customers, you know, driving that choice and giving them that benefit is something that we have to sustain. >> And it's also important to understand that you know, if you spent this morning watching the keynote, you clearly saw that we did not talk about hyperconverged. What we talked about were two things. One is pushing that cloud intelligence to the edge, and then building a hyper-cloud experience that is totally transparent. And the second thing was about building a multi-cloud environment through Calm. We did not talk about hyperconverged. Those things are not built on a platform that is not built for ... Those things are built on a platform that is ready for web-scale architecture. So the foundation that we have built in the last seven years is on which we are building, and as long as we continue to add value like that, and partner, for example, on PCF, you know, Pivotal Cloud Foundry, that's a classic example, a Home Depot example, right? They need that same experience that they're getting from Edibus. And Edibus is not just doing IAAS. They're doing PAAS, they're doing the entire thing. To do that, there is no shame in figuring out what we do well, what we don't do well, understand their strengths and weakness, come together, and deliver something that is better for customers. >> Sudheesh, I'm curious, actually, 'cause Home Depot is a, you know, lighthouse account for Pivotal, on Google Cloud platform. Talking to them about it for the last six months. How does that fit in? We know that the Dell family is a multi-function, so I'm curious to want to hear the Nutanix piece of how that fits in. >> Look, I think the Google thing is a relatively new thing for us. We are expecting two different areas that we are going to partner with them. >> No, no, but Home Depot specifically, is that related? >> No. >> Because they're a big GCP customer, so maybe Chad needs to fill it in. >> This specific project is all on Exceed with PCS. >> The thing that I think is fascinating, and to watchers, I would say, for the intellectually curious that are willing to double-click and go a little bit further, it's a little more of a complex, nuanced story, but everyone's looking for a soundbite, whether it's in politics, as we're here in DC, or whether it's in news, or whatever. Home Depot, like a ton of customers, is using GCP. They're using XC, they're using vSphere, they're using NSX, they're using PCF. It's not like there's some singular thing. Another fascinating example is, I talked to a customer who's a fantastic ScaleIO, VxRack FLEX customer, vSphere, enormous scale and scope, and when I asked them, they want a hybrid cloud to this point. HCI is just a foundation for hybrid cloud use. When I asked them, like, what are their hybrid cloud targets, they're like, "AWS, but we use GCP because we depend on TensorFlow." It is, we live in a world which you need to expand your mind and not naturally create this, like, binary A/B thing. >> Stu: It's a multi-cloud world, Chad. >> It's a multi-stacked, multi-cloud, multi-use case world. >> An inter-genius mess in IT that we've been dealing with. >> So another thing that analysts do a lot is give unsolicited advice. (Chad laughs) So I want to do that and maybe get your reaction. So, Amazon's operating profits are roughly almost double what EMC's were, Amazon Web Services, when EMC was a public company. Massive change and disruptive force in our industry. And frankly, if it weren't for AWS, we wouldn't be where we are today as fast as we were, so I see your joint challenge as fulfilling the vision of what we call true private cloud. Substantially mimicking the cloud experience on-prem. And you're behind, and you know you're behind at that, because Amazon's by definition in the lead. So your challenge as we see it is to create that experience and create that automation and allow people to shift their labor costs to the fun stuff. >> By the way, I agree, and I accept that advice. You can answer for you, but I'll tell you, we've been trying to ... So we started with the first enterprise hybrid cloud efforts almost three and a half years ago, and they're enormous, and at the time we said, "And deploy it on anything you want." And you know what? We had very limited success with that. And the reason we had limited success wasn't because we didn't get the customer going, "Yes, I want to have a hybrid cloud, "where I can bridge and connect to "multiple different public cloud targets." That idea, dead right. The idea of you can build it any way you want? Wrong. Then we said, "Okay, you know what? "CI is a simplification." What we realized is that life cycling CI stacks along with a CMP layer, whether it's inside an integrated thing, or whether it's directly adjacent, still too complex. The latest is basically all of our hybrid cloud, whether it's destined towards enterprise IAAS or PAAS on prem, runs on HCI. When? Always. Because HCI is fundamentally orders of magnitude easier to symph, to deploy, to scale, to version, etc., etc. What I've been seeing over the last 24 hours about basically the Calm acquisition becoming part of Acropolis, is the example where Nutanix is taking it, where they're trying to build it into the Calm and Acropolis stack. I think that's a common vision between the two companies. >> What you will hear from HP or Cisco or EMC or Nutanix, the picture isn't going to change much, because we all know what the blueprint looks like. I think the real question is, how do you get there? How you do that is where the difference is going to be, and the advantage we have is that because we built every stack with that clean architecture in mind, the North Star being, we have to deliver a fully-automatable stack, we have an added advantage of building every step connect naturally to the next step. So for example, our metadata structure, our storage fabric, our virtualization fabric, AHV, our automation fabric on Calm, and how we are introducing Xi, that's a hybrid cloud service, it is all controlled from Prism. And that Prism itself and Prism Central are fully distributed. So that ability to deploy this at scale across multiple continents and manage it, that is very similar to how Amazon ... The reason why Amazon can deliver millisecond billing on Lambda stack is not because they are taking ten different products. They have technology that is built to deliver that level of granularity. >> So again, I agree, but there's an element that I disagree. Calm was an acquisition. Calm was an acquisition of people and talent to basically extend up into the IAAS, chargeback, billing, self-service portal domain. No disrespect of the decision, technology, architecture. You've done, obviously, great progress that you've shown to the market the last two days about how you're integrating that into your stack. We've been at this now for four years, and we've looked at, how do we need to keep evolving our own Dell Technologies stacks? Again, it's not an either/or. So for example, we do multi-site PCF deployments directly on top of a HCI target that has total life cycle, completely distributed stack, and the Pivotal/Google work around Kubernetes coming as part of Pivotal, which echoes a lot of the Kubernetes becoming part of your stack as well. Kubo highlights what we're all trying to do towards that target. Again, I think that the natural tendency because people like to see car races to watch for crashes, cheetahs chasing lions ... >> Or something like that. >> I think we're all striving to do what you said. The customer demand for simple-to-operate, simple-to-deploy, simple-to-scale, turnkey IAAS, PAAS, and even SAAS stacks that're a hybrid deployment model, that is a fact. How customers need to evaluate all the choices in the marketplace is again, who does it best? >> And if you don't, you're the deer, is your point. >> Chad: You're the lion or the deer. >> I wish we had more time, guys. I'll give you both the last word. Chad, you're everywhere this week, and everywhere every week, but final thoughts. >> Final thoughts, I mean, customers can know that we're committed to customer choice, we're committed to this partnership. The number of customers in revenue continues to grow. Our point of view is that we've got a portfolio approach, but no one should be confused about what that means. That means that we're committed to the partnership. Customers, I've talked to a lot of them here, they're happy. Never punch your customer in the face, and never punch yourself in the face. Simple strategy from Chad Sakac. >> Sudheesh, put a capstone on it. >> My point's very simple. I think this is a partnership that is working. The company's run by really smart people. I don't think we are interested in doing anything that is going to make our customers' decision a wrong one for them. And we are committed, we are committed to innovate, and are committed a service to join customers together. Thank you. >> Guys, you know, you guys make this job fun. Thank you so much for coming on the Cube. Really appreciate it. >> It's our pleasure, guys. Remember, Happy Canada Day! >> All right, July 1st. Love it. All right, keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. (electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live from Santa Clara in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's the CUBE. Covering Cloud Foundry Summit 2017. Brought to you by the Cloud Foundry Foundation and Pivotal. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman joined by my cohost John Troyer. We're here at the CUBE's coverage of Cloud Foundry Summit 2017, we're the world wide leader in live tech coverage. Happy to welcome to the program Kim Bannerman who does the Developer Relations at Google. Recently to Google. And Ben Kepes who's an analyst with Diversity Limited. Thanks so much both for joining us. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thank you. >> Kim, you were up on the main stage yesterday and today MCing the event, really appreciate you joining us. Why are you at this event, why is the event important for developers? >> I got involved with Cloud Foundry before there was a Foundation so this has been my community for almost three years now. I'm not one of the oldie, oldie people but I feel like these are my people. >> Yeah, we had James on before so... >> Yeah, so you know. It's important to developers because it helps them move faster. I started out my career in consulting so one of the big heavy lifting items that we would always have to for our customers would be building a custom platform for an application. When I first heard about Cloud Foundry, shortly after it was launched into open source, I was like that's really interesting to me. >> Ben, do I remember right, is this the first time you've actually been at this event in person? >> Yeah it's funny, so I've been covering Cloud Foundry, writing about Cloud Foundry since before it was called Cloud Foundry. >> Yeah Ben, you were one of those clouderati people talking about ads >> Like platform right? >> and the temperature, for years about that stuff. >> And it's bizarre, I remember when Heroku and Engine Yard were all it was when it comes to pass. So I've been following the space but I've never actually been to a Cloud Foundry summit so it's awesome to be here and to get a sense and vibe of the community which is always a really important thing. >> What's your take so far, what's your overlay of the market? We're not talking about paths so much anymore, so what are we talking about. >> No it's interesting. Just recently I read a post opining about the death or otherwise of paths. I think what we're seeing now is really what Cloud Foundry is is more than a path. It's really about a fabric, a control fabric for a bunch of different modes of operating. From that perspective, it's been really great to be here. Seeing the new announcements, obviously Microsoft joining us is a big deal. Things like Cubo. It really does position Cloud Foundry in this container, server-less world. >> Kim, we were joking with Chip when we had him on earlier, talked about enterprise grade and that means a salesperson goes in and the front of the company, the C level suite, talking about digital transformation, how do you reconcile that with what you're hearing from developers? How do you have the business and developers, are they coming together more? >> Right, so I'll tell you this. If you see a message and tweets or collateral or a deck or a talk and it kind of hits you wrong, understand that you may not be the intended audience. So I think that serves... That will speak to a CTO level type of person but increasingly nowadays we're seeing enterprises saying, hey, don't call me enterprise, we're actually an internet company like you are Google, we want to be like you. Don't call us this legacy, old school, all these different connotations that are attached to enterprise. Really we're just talking about larger companies of 10,000 employees or above, right. As far as meeting in the middle, The New Kingmakers, I love that book, Red Monk, great people. >> We're going to have Steve O'Grady on later. >> Yup, love them. I was seeing this happening when I started organizing user groups back in Atlanta in 2010 and 2011 where deals were happening but used to happen and say here, I'm signing this but you're going to have to live with it and I'm throwing it over the fence to my team and we're done. More and more those folks are coming into EBCs, tech leads, architects, developers, systems administrators, devOps, whatever. They're absolutely influencing the deal and they really do want to see it and try it and know that they've got a community behind them, supporting them before they agree. >> Kim, you have worked with a lot of different developers and your perspective now at Google and IBM was the last place. So sure, the developers are going to be the new kingmakers but they're having to choose between different platforms. The joke used to be at the front end, the web, HTML people, the great thing about Java Script is there are so many frameworks to choose from and they're tearing their hair out every year cause there's a new set. Now the backend, the folks who are doing the orchestration and the distributed systems and all the stuff we're talking about here, they also have some choices to make, look at different architectures, look at different stacks. What do you see as the developers that you're talking with, how are they approaching this in this multi-cloud world that they're dealing with? >> Ben made a good point on Twitter earlier today about multi-cloud, it happens for multiple reasons. Someone said this is the reason and then Ben, I'll let him speak to that, I won't steal his thunder. But for me, it's different, we can say it from the product level, it's different use cases. But quite frankly, there are multitudes of various different types of developers doing various different types of applications inside any given large customer. That's why you've seen, not to shield, Google has partnered we're doing PCF, Google roadshows, getting in with each other customers because that's definitely a big use case that we keep seeing. Then we also have container engine that's run by Kubernetes. It's just a matter of who your developers are. >> Google is big enough to embrace a lot of sets of developers. >> Absolutely, and it's not just about developers, which is a big pet peeve of mine, you got to think about all my ops people too and everyone else that's keeping the ship running. >> Shout out to ops people. >> Absolutely. >> Well Ben, what was your comment on Twitter? >> It's interesting. I guess there's a couple of different options and we've been told that multi-cloud the value propers that you've got a workload running on JCP, you want to move it to Azure or AWS. It's lists about that it's more about the CIO deciding that she wants to enable her developers to use whatever platform they want to use. It's funny, the developers are the new kingmakers meme. I'm not 100% comfortable with that because I think that absolutely developers build the solutions that allow an organization to be EdgeAll. But really it's still the CIO that gives them, or allows them, gives them the framework to use whatever tools they need. So I actually think that the developers versus IT tension is actually a fake one. What really needs to happen, what we're seeing in these more forward looking large enterprises, is the bringing together of those two worlds and enabling developers to use what they need. I totally agree with what Kim said about speed. At the end of the day, it's not the bigs that eat the small, it's the fast that eat the slow. Large enterprises want to feel more like a startup, more like an EdgeAll organization so I think that enterprise grade way of looking at the world was a way of looking at it from legacy days and we need to change that way I think. >> Ben, it feels like that Cloud Foundry and if I look at Pivotal specifically, are focused at those large enterprises getting a lot of traction. We see big companies that are on stage and here which there's a large opportunity there but different from what I see at certain shows where you're seeing smaller companies that are maybe embracing Kubernetes and containers a little bit more and not looking at Cloud Foundry. What are you seeing? >> I think it's pragmatic, it's totally not the sexy thing to say, but at the end of the day, developers will do what they are told to do, cause at the end of the day, they're in a job they have to deliver. So I actually think, I've spent some time talking to James Waters earlier on today to get an update on where Pivotal is with regard to PCF and I think this theme of allowing the CIO to enable their people to do what their people need to do is actually the right one. It's a really pragmatic approach. I think it's less about hey, let's try and keep all of these developers happy and try and be the cool tech vendor for the developer, it's about being the tech vendor that can help the CIO be the hero of their own development teams. >> Kim, there was a good question at the new stack panel this morning, how do people keep up with all of the new things, of course there's many answers but you're involved with lots of meetups, lots of different channels, what are you seeing as some of the best ways for people to try to get involved and try to keep up? >> It's a information overload. I would say tailor your feeds, whatever they are, to be very finite into the things that matter most to you. Like Sarah and some other folks said, there's Telepathy, there's Slack, there's mailing lists, Twitter obviously, User Groups, GitHub, that kind of thing. It's really important. I think a lot of us have gone through and looked at talks and videos after a conference, maybe we weren't able to make it. Those are super valuable to hear what the state of the union is on certain things. I like seeing independent analysts talk about a project. I think my customers enjoy that and they want to hear it from an objective perspective not just the company branding. >> I also think people still share things on blogs, even in 2017, a real-world development experience out there as it goes. In your new, as you're moving on in your role at Google, is there a broader role that you'll be looking at in terms of this whole ecosystem of developers and operators? >> Broader role. So building a program and basically attaching myself, we always laugh and say someone has to do a shot for every time you mention Kelsey Hightower's name, but Kelsey and I are going to be sticking together for a little while and I'm going to see what works for him. I did programs like this at IBM and at Century Link for Jared and those folks. I just want to see what the state of the union is there. >> You said you've been involved with Cloud Foundry for years, can you pull one or two things that you really have enjoyed about this community and how it has grown that people might not know if they aren't a part of it? >> Yeah, I think if you were here two years ago, it very much looked like the Pivotal show. There was a very close, Foundation had just been formed so there was a blurry line between where Foundation picked up and where Pivotal stopped. Those other companies that helped found the Foundation and the projects and were contributing upstream kind of felt like, oh well, okay, we're all in this together. But there was definitely a little how do we do this thing. This year's show, even from last year's show has grown significantly. The big differences are we've got people from all over the globe contributing to the project where I feel like we had a few places here and there early on. I love meeting the people and hearing their stories. >> Ben, with your analyst hat on, what do you going to be looking at the next few days? >> As I said, it's the first time I've actually been here but I have been following it since day one. I think I agree with Kim, I said a couple years before the Foundation was born that it was time for the project to grow up and move out from VMware as it was then. That's happened and it's actually quite neat to be here and to see that it isn't all Pivotal centric, that the fact that Microsoft is now a big part of the Foundation. It does feel like a mature and a vibrant ecosystem. It feels like things are in good form. >> Ben, slightly different question for you, you also wear a hat of working with a number of startups as an advisor. What do you see in the marketplace today? What are some of the big opportunities and big challenges for startups? >> I think helping with the complexity. At the end of the day, the world is going to be increasingly heterogeneous, whether that's multi-cloud or hybrid cloud or whatever name you want to put on that. So helping tools that help people wrap their arms around this increased complexion. There's a real opportunity there, things are getting busier, more and more complex. Removing some of that noise is a good opportunity. >> Well, if you don't like the complexity, you can always just live on Google's platforms and the things that they enable, right Kim? >> I think we are up to 60 something products now and more coming, so it's a lot. >> Alright, Kim want to give you and Ben final word, takeaways from the show. Maybe Kim, some of the community aspects. >> We're on day one really. Yesterday was kind of day one with the different workshops and Hackathons and things like that. I'm really looking forward to more talks and attracts today and tomorrow we have diversity luncheon and we'll see how the keynotes go in the morning but I'm meeting so many great customers and so I'm looking forward to meeting more tomorrow morning. >> Ben, you go to so many shows, what differentiates this one? >> Yeah I do and for me, I'm not an open source fanatic, by any stretch of the imagination, I equally go to propriety vendors and product shows as well as these ones. But what I will say is that I've been impressed with the coming together of the community and the supportive environment among the organizers and the attendees, so that's really refreshing to see. >> Ben, Kim, thank you so much for joining us. For John and myself, thanks for watching, we'll be back with lots more programming, thanks for watching the CUBE.

>> Announcer: Live from Santa Clara, in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE. Covering Cloud Foundry Summit 2017. Brought to you by the Cloud Foundry Foundation and Pivotal. >> Welcome back. I'm Stu Miniman, joined by my cohost John Troyer. Happy to welcome back to the program, friend of theCUBE, James Watters SVP of Product at Pivotal. James, great to see you, and thanks for helping to get theCUBE to Cloud Foundry Summit. >> Yeah, I was just saying, this is the first time theCUBE is at CF Summit, so we're official now. We're all grown up. We're out in the daylight and you know you made it when theCUBE shows up, so excited to have you here. >> Absolutely. So a lot of things going on. We had Chip on talking about some of the big announcements. >> James: Yeah. >> From Pivotal's standpoint, what's some of the important milestones in releases happening. >> Yeah, I think in the simplest terms, the big new thing came out of our collaboration with Google is called Kubo, which is Kubernetes on BOSH. And I think that was a big move that got a lot of applause in the keynote when it was announced yesterday. And I think it shows two things. One is that Cloud Foundry really is going to embrace multiple ways of deploying artifacts and managing things, and that we're really the cloud native platform and willing to embrace container abstractions, app abstractions, data abstractions pretty uniquely, which is, there hasn't been another platform out there that embraces those with specialized ways of doing them. And I'm really excited about the customer response to that approach. >> Yeah, James, help us unpack that a little bit. So we look at the term seems this year, everybody, it's multi-cloud, we're all talking back-- >> James: Yeah. >> I think back to the days when we talked about platform as a service. One of the pieces was, oh, well, I should be able to have my application and move lots of places. That's what I heard when I talked about Cloud Foundry. When Docker came out everybody was like, oh PAS's dead, Docker's going to do this. When Kubernetes came out, oh wait, this takes the core value of what platform as a service has done. And today you're saying Kubo, Cloud Foundry, and Kubernetes with some BOSH, pulling it all together. Walk us through, 'cause it's nuanced. And there's pieces of that. So help us understand. >> Yeah, I like to say that even though sometimes you have open source communities have their own sense of identity, there's really not a god abstraction in cloud programming. Like there's not one abstraction that does it all. The simplest way you can see that is that people are interested in function as a service today. They're also interested in container as a service. Well, those two are not, they're not compatible. Right, like you don't deploy your whole Docker image to Amazon Lambda, but people are interested in both of those. And then, at the same time, there's this hyper growth of Spring Boot, which is, I think, the most efficient way of doing Java programming in the cloud, which is really at the core of our app abstraction. And so we see people, there's hyper growth, and function as a service, app as a service, especially with Spring Boot, and then also container. And I think the approach that we've had is beause there's not one god abstraction, that our platform needs to embrace all of those. And that actually, it's pretty intuitive, once you start using them, and you get beyond the slides and the buzz words. When to use one versus the other. And I think that's what users have been really excited about, is that Pivotal and Cloud Foundry communities embraced kind of that breadth, in terms of, different approaches to cloud native. Does that make sense to you, John? >> Yeah it's starting to, right? A lot of people like to do all or nothing about everything, right? >> James: Yeah. >> It's all going to be, we're going to be serverless by next year. And that doesn't make any sense at all. >> James: That's right. >> And so you have multiple programming models, like you said, multiple different kinds of abstractions, so when would somebody want to use, say containers, as a service, or container orchestration, versus some of the other application models. >> Yeah, it's a really, really great question. And I just had a really productive customer meeting this morning, where we went through that. They had some no-JS developers, that they said, look, these developers just want to get their code to production. They don't want to think about systems, they don't want to think about operating systems, they don't want to think about clusters. They're just like, here's my app, run it for me. And that's the core trick that Cloud Foundry's done the best of any platform in the world, which is CF Push, and so, for a no-JS developer, here's my app, run it for me, load balance it, health management, log aggregate it, give me quotas on my memory usage, everything. That's a good example of that. Then, they also had a team that was deploying Elasticsearch and some packaged applications. And they needed the level of control that Kubernetes in terms of pods, co-location, full control of a system image, the ability to do networking in certain ways, the ability to control storage. And you don't just take Elasticsearch and say here's my Elasticsearch tarball, run it for me. You actually start to set up a system, and that's where Kubernetes container as a service is perfect. Then the other question is how do you stitch those together, and you've seen the Kubernetes community adopt the Service broker API, the open Service Broker API out of Cloud Foundry, as a common way of saying, oh, I have an Elasticsearch over here, but I want to bind it to an application. Well, they use the CF services API. I think it's early days, but there's actually a coherent fabric forming across these different approaches, and it's also immediately intuitive. Like we didn't know, when we first conceived of adding Kubo to the mix, we didn't know what the educational level of education we have to provide, but it's been intuitive to every client I've talked so far, so that's fun for me to watch you say a few words like, oh, we get it. Yeah, we use that for this and this for this. >> All right, James, I have to up-level it a little bit, there. >> James: Little deep? >> You travel way more than I do. We kind of watch on social media. Prove me wrong, but i can't imagine when you're talking in the C-suite of a Fortune 100, pick your financial, or insurance company, that they are immersed in the languages and platform discussions that the hoodie crowd is. So where are you having those discussions? >> James: Yeah. >> One of the things, I come into the show and say Pivotal and Cloud Foundry are helping customers with that whole digital transformation. >> James: We are. >> And making that reality. So help us with that disconnect of, I'm down in the weeds trying to build this very complex stack, and the C-suite says, I want to be faster. >> I'll tell you what the C-suite has to solve. They've got to solve two things. One is they've got to deliver faster and more efficiently than ever before. That's their language, and our core app abstraction has been killer for digital transformation. Deliver apps faster, find your value line, and approach problems that way. They get that. That's why we've been succeeding economically, that's been a bit hit. But they also have another problem is, they want to retain talent, and when they're trying to retain talent some of those times, those folks are saying, well, we want little bit more control. We want to be able to use a container if we want, or think about something like Spring Cloud Data Flow to do high-end pipelines. And so they do care about having a partner in Pivotal and in Cloud Foundry, they can embrace those new trends. Because they've got to be able to not be completely top down in how they're enabling their organizations, while also encouraging efficiency. And so that's where the message of multiple abstractions really hits home for them, because they don't always want to referee some of the emerging trends and tech, and telling their team what they have to use. So by providing function, app, container, and data service, we can be the one partner that doesn't force that a priori in the discussion. Does that make sense? >> Is there friction ever, when saying, okay here, we've got this platform that actually is rather opinionated versus, hey, go choose everything open source and do whatever you want. I think that there's political boundaries between different parts of organization, this is a lot of what DevOps, I think, as a movement has been so important. Which is saying actually, you need to blur the political boundaries in the organization to get to faster end-to-end throughput and collaboration. So I think that's definitely a reality. At the same time, the ability that we've had to embrace these different approaches allows the level of empowerment that I think is appropriate. Like I think what we've been trying to do is not necessarily cater to a free-for-all, we've been saying, what are the right tools in the tool chest that people need to get their job done. So I think that's been very warmly received. So I guess I'd say that hasn't been a big problem for us. >> I want to ask you about the ecosystem. I think back when the ecosystem started, IBM, HPE, Cisco were big players. I come in this week, and it's Google Cloud, Microsoft Cloud, and Pivotal still is, last time I checked it was what, 70% of the code base created by Pivotal. >> James: I think it's 60 or 55 now. >> The change in the ecosystem what that means, and what that means to kind of open source, open core. >> Yeah, so I think in addition to the Kubo work that we've done, the other big news this week is that Microsoft joined the Cloud Foundry Foundation. So, essentially the largest software company in the world-- >> Wait, wait, Microsoft loves open source, I hear. Did you hear that one? >> They do. >> I know, it's still shocking for a lot of us that have known Microsoft for a long time, don't you think? And I'm not trying to be facetious, they totally are involved, I've talked to lots of Microsoft people. Kudos to them, they're doing a really good job. Even if I look at the big cloud guys and throw in VMware in there, Microsoft is one of the leaders in participating and embracing open source. >> They are and I think Corey Sanders, who got on stage, announced this, he leads the Azure virtual machine service, and a lot of the other Azure services for them, I think that their strategy is they want to run every workload. Like if you talk to Corey about it, he's like, you got workload, we want to be your partner. And I think that's been the change at Microsoft, is once you go into cloud, it's sort of like Pivotal embracing multiple program abstractions, right, once you have a platform you want as much critical mass on it as you can. And I think that's really helped Microsoft embrace the open source community in a very pragmatic way. Because they are a business, a company, right? And I think open source is required to do business in software these days, right, like in a way that it wasn't 10 years ago. As you look at your customer set and multi-cloud, right? From the very beginning multi-cloud was baked into the concept of Cloud Foundry. Like you said, just push, right? >> James: Yeah. >> So what do you see as common patterns? We've talked to folks already who, on-prem. Obviously, you all are running your CF service in partnership, your main one, your partnership with Google, You work with Amazon, what do you see in customer base, right? >> Yeah, so, let me just share a little bit from a good customer. This is a prospect conversation more, like someone who's starting the journey. They were currently running on-prem, on an OpenStack environment, which had some cost of maintenance for them. They were considering also using their vServer environment, to maybe not have to do as much customization of OpenStack. But there were certain geographies that they wanted to get into. They didn't want to build data centers. And what they were confronting was, they'd have to go learn networking and app management on a couple different clouds they wanted to use. And what they liked about our CF Fabric, across that, was that they said, oh, this is one operating model for any of those clouds. And that's the pattern that we see is that companies want to have one cloud operating model while there's five major cloud players today. So like how do those two forces in the market combine? And I think that's where multi-cloud becomes powerful. It's not necessarily multi-cloud for it's own sake, but it is the idea that you can engage and use multiple resources from these different data center providers without having to completely change your whole organization around it. Because taking on, how you run vServer versus OpenStack is different, as you know, right? >> Right, right, and talking about change, right? You and I were together at VMware when you launched this thing. >> James: Yeah. >> And there was a profound kind of conceptual chasm to leap for the VMware operators to figure out what was going on here. >> James: Yeah. >> So in this new world of services operation in multi-cloud, how are you seeing people, how's the adoption going, you just launched, or the foundation's launched its new certification stuff, can you talk a little bit about the new skill set needed, or how you're seeing people, the people formerly known as sys admins are now actually doing cloud operations. >> Well, I'm not sure if you saw Pat Gelsinger's announcement at Dell World, Dell EMC World, about developer-ready infrastructure. And I think this is a critical evolution that our partnership with VMware is more important than ever. Which is they're now saying all of these people that have been doing traditional system administration, you need to now offer developer-ready infrastructure. And this is an infrastructure that all the networking and network micro segmentation rules need to be there, all of the great things that the VMware admins have provided before needs to be there, but it needs to be turnkey for a developer. That developer shouldn't just get what we had and 2009, when you and I were working there together, which is like, here's a virtual machine, go build the rest of the environment. It should look more like, here's my application, run it for me. Here's my container, run it for me. And so what we're seeing is a lot of people upping their game now. To say, oh, the new thing is providing these services for developers 'cause that ties into digital transformation, ties into what the business is doing, ties into productivity. So I'm seeing a Renaissance of sys admins having a whole new set of tools. So that makes me excited. And one of the cool things we're seeing, I'd love to get your opinion on this is, this cool operating ratio of, we've had our clients present. Their administers of Cloud Foundry instances are able to run tens of thousands of apps in containers with two to four to five people. And so now they've got this super power, which is like, hey bring as many of the applications as the business needs to me. I can go run 10,000 app containers with a small team of people with a good lifestyle. To me, that's actually kind of incredible to see that leverage. >> Yeah, I think it's a huge shift, right? 'Cause you aren't setting up the VLANs and the micro segmentation and the rest of the stuff. >> Yeah, it's not all by hand, and so now the idea with our NSX partnership, is I'm really excited about, fun to talk to you about it. We used to work in Building E and have lunch out there, is that when you provision a CF app, we're working with the NSX team that all the segmentation will align with the app permissions. And this is a big deal, because it used to be that the network team and the app team didn't really have a good conduit of communication. So now it's like, okay I'm going to bind my app to this data service. I want NSX to make sure that permission is followed. To me, that's going to be a revolution of getting the app, and the DevOps teams and the networking teams to work together, clearly. So I'm pumped about that. >> Running low on time. A couple of quick questions about Pivotal. Number one is, now that you're doing Kubo, could we expect to see Pivotal join the CNCF? So EMC is is joining the CNCF. We have friendly relations with the CNCF, I don't think that's at all out of the cards. I just know current, I don't have any news on that today. But we've been very friendly with them, and we started working with Google on that, so no immediate plans there, but we'd be open to that, I believe. >> Okay, and secondly, my understanding, the last announcement on revenue, you can't speak to the IPO or anything, James, above your pay grade, but $275 million in billing on PCF, did I get that right? What do you see is kind of the mix of how you're revenued, are you a software company, a services company? The big data versus the cloud piece. How do we look at Pivotal going forward? >> Yeah, what'd I say is I primarily oversee the Cloud Foundry portion of what we do. And services are an incredibly important part of our mix, Pivotal labs. When you think about this developer-ready infrastructure tend, like a lot of the way you organize your developers can change too. So we talked about how the sys admins jobs change. They gets this platform scale, well the developer's job has changed now, too. They have to learn how to do CICD, they've got to learn how to potentially turn around agile requirements from the business on a weekly basis versus every six months. So Pivotal labs has certainly been critical to that mix for us. But PCF in and of itself, has been a very successful software business. And I think, I believe can grow into the billions of dollars a year in software, and that's what kind of keeps me excited about every day. >> All right, James, I want to give you the final word. You speak to so many customers. >> James: A few. >> The whole digital transformation thing, what are you seeing? How do we help customers along that moving faster. >> That's a, it's a big topic. And the thing that's really interesting about what PCF does is, that it helps people change their organizations, not just their technology. And this has certainly happened in the vServer environment, right? Like it would change your organization, but we're even going higher, which is like, how are your developers organized? How operating teams organize. How you think about security. How you think about patching. Like the reason why I agree that it's transformative, is that it's not just a change of technology, it's these new technologies allow you to rebuild your organization end-to-end, of how it delivers business results. And that makes it both a humbling and an exciting time to be in the industry, because I personally, don't have all the answers every time. People ask about organizations and what to do there. Those are complex issues, but I think we've tried to partner with them to go on that journey together. >> Unfortunately, James, we're going to have to leave it there. We will definitely catch up with you at many more events later this year. And we'll be back with more coverage here from the Cloud Foundry Summit 2017. You're watching theCUBE. (techno music)