(upbeat music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of Women in Data Science 2023 live from Stanford University. This is Lisa Martin. My co-host is Tracy Yuan. We're excited to be having great conversations all day but you know, 'cause you've been watching. We've been interviewing some very inspiring women and some men as well, talking about all of the amazing applications of data science. You're not going to want to miss this next conversation. Our guest is Gabriela de Queiroz, Principal Cloud Advocate Manager of Microsoft. Welcome, Gabriela. We're excited to have you. >> Thank you very much. I'm so excited to be talking to you. >> Yeah, you're on theCUBE. >> Yeah, finally. (Lisa laughing) Like a dream come true. (laughs) >> I know and we love that. We're so thrilled to have you. So you have a ton of experience in the data space. I was doing some research on you. You've worked in software, financial advertisement, health. Talk to us a little bit about you. What's your background in? >> So I was trained in statistics. So I'm a statistician and then I worked in epidemiology. I worked with air pollution and public health. So I was a researcher before moving into the industry. So as I was talking today, the weekly paths, it's exactly who I am. I went back and forth and back and forth and stopped and tried something else until I figured out that I want to do data science and that I want to do different things because with data science we can... The beauty of data science is that you can move across domains. So I worked in healthcare, financial, and then different technology companies. >> Well the nice thing, one of the exciting things that data science, that I geek out about and Tracy knows 'cause we've been talking about this all day, it's just all the different, to your point, diverse, pun intended, applications of data science. You know, this morning we were talking about, we had the VP of data science from Meta as a keynote. She came to theCUBE talking and really kind of explaining from a content perspective, from a monetization perspective, and of course so many people in the world are users of Facebook. It makes it tangible. But we also heard today conversations about the applications of data science in police violence, in climate change. We're in California, we're expecting a massive rainstorm and we don't know what to do when it rains or snows. But climate change is real. Everyone's talking about it, and there's data science at its foundation. That's one of the things that I love. But you also have a lot of experience building diverse teams. Talk a little bit about that. You've created some very sophisticated data science solutions. Talk about your recommendation to others to build diverse teams. What's in it for them? And maybe share some data science project or two that you really found inspirational. >> Yeah, absolutely. So I do love building teams. Every time I'm given the task of building teams, I feel the luckiest person in the world because you have the option to pick like different backgrounds and all the diverse set of like people that you can find. I don't think it's easy, like people say, yeah, it's very hard. You have to be intentional. You have to go from the very first part when you are writing the job description through the interview process. So you have to be very intentional in every step. And you have to think through when you are doing that. And I love, like my last team, we had like 10 people and we were so diverse. Like just talking about languages. We had like 15 languages inside a team. So how beautiful it is. Like all different backgrounds, like myself as a statistician, but we had people from engineering background, biology, languages, and so on. So it's, yeah, like every time thinking about building a team, if you wanted your team to be diverse, you need to be intentional. >> I'm so glad you brought up that intention point because that is the fundamental requirement really is to build it with intention. >> Exactly, and I love to hear like how there's different languages. So like I'm assuming, or like different backgrounds, I'm assuming everybody just zig zags their way into the team and now you're all women in data science and I think that's so precious. >> Exactly. And not only woman, right. >> Tracy: Not only woman, you're right. >> The team was diverse not only in terms of like gender, but like background, ethnicity, and spoken languages, and language that they use to program and backgrounds. Like as I mentioned, not everybody did the statistics in school or computer science. And it was like one of my best teams was when we had this combination also like things that I'm good at the other person is not as good and we have this knowledge sharing all the time. Every day I would feel like I'm learning something. In a small talk or if I was reviewing something, there was always something new because of like the richness of the diverse set of people that were in your team. >> Well what you've done is so impressive, because not only have you been intentional with it, but you sound like the hallmark of a great leader of someone who hires and builds teams to fill gaps. They don't have to know less than I do for me to be the leader. They have to have different skills, different areas of expertise. That is really, honestly Gabriela, that's the hallmark of a great leader. And that's not easy to come by. So tell me, who were some of your mentors and sponsors along the way that maybe influenced you in that direction? Or is that just who you are? >> That's a great question. And I joke that I want to be the role model that I never had, right. So growing up, I didn't have anyone that I could see other than my mom probably or my sister. But there was no one that I could see, I want to become that person one day. And once I was tracing my path, I started to see people looking at me and like, you inspire me so much, and I'm like, oh wow, this is amazing and I want to do do this over and over and over again. So I want to be that person to inspire others. And no matter, like I'll be like a VP, CEO, whoever, you know, I want to be, I want to keep inspiring people because that's so valuable. >> Lisa: Oh, that's huge. >> And I feel like when we grow professionally and then go to the next level, we sometimes we lose that, you know, thing that's essential. And I think also like, it's part of who I am as I was building and all my experiences as I was going through, I became what I mentioned is unique person that I think we all are unique somehow. >> You're a rockstar. Isn't she a rockstar? >> You dropping quotes out. >> I'm loving this. I'm like, I've inspired Gabriela. (Gabriela laughing) >> Oh my God. But yeah, 'cause we were asking our other guests about the same question, like, who are your role models? And then we're talking about how like it's very important for women to see that there is a representation, that there is someone they look up to and they want to be. And so that like, it motivates them to stay in this field and to start in this field to begin with. So yeah, I think like you are definitely filling a void and for all these women who dream to be in data science. And I think that's just amazing. >> And you're a founder too. In 2012, you founded R Ladies. Talk a little bit about that. This is present in more than 200 cities in 55 plus countries. Talk about R Ladies and maybe the catalyst to launch it. >> Yes, so you always start, so I'm from Brazil, I always talk about this because it's such, again, I grew up over there. So I was there my whole life and then I moved to here, Silicon Valley. And when I moved to San Francisco, like the doors opened. So many things happening in the city. That was back in 2012. Data science was exploding. And I found out something about Meetup.com, it's a website that you can join and go in all these events. And I was going to this event and I joke that it was kind of like going to the Disneyland, where you don't know if I should go that direction or the other direction. >> Yeah, yeah. >> And I was like, should I go and learn about data visualization? Should I go and learn about SQL or should I go and learn about Hadoop, right? So I would go every day to those meetups. And I was a student back then, so you know, the budget was very restricted as a student. So we don't have much to spend. And then they would serve dinner and you would learn for free. And then I got to a point where I was like, hey, they are doing all of this as a volunteer. Like they are running this meetup and events for free. And I felt like it's a cycle. I need to do something, right. I'm taking all this in. I'm having this huge opportunity to be here. I want to give back. So that's what how everything started. I was like, no, I have to think about something. I need to think about something that I can give back. And I was using R back then and I'm like how about I do something with R. I love R, I'm so passionate about R, what about if I create a community around R but not a regular community, because by going to this events, I felt that as a Latina and as a woman, I was always in the corner and I was not being able to participate and to, you know, be myself and to network and ask questions. I would be in the corner. So I said to myself, what about if I do something where everybody feel included, where everybody can participate, can share, can ask questions without judgment? So that's how R ladies all came together. >> That's awesome. >> Talk about intentions, like you have to, you had that go in mind, but yeah, I wanted to dive a little bit into R. So could you please talk more about where did the passion for R come from, and like how did the special connection between you and R the language, like born, how did that come from? >> It was not a love at first sight. >> No. >> Not at all. Not at all. Because that was back in Brazil. So all the documentation were in English, all the tutorials, only two. We had like very few tutorials. It was not like nowadays that we have so many tutorials and courses. There were like two tutorials, other documentation in English. So it's was hard for me like as someone that didn't know much English to go through the language and then to learn to program was not easy task. But then as I was going through the language and learning and reading books and finding the people behind the language, I don't know how I felt in love. And then when I came to to San Francisco, I saw some of like the main contributors who are speaking in person and I'm like, wow, they are like humans. I don't know, it was like, I have no idea why I had this love. But I think the the people and then the community was the thing that kept me with the R language. >> Yeah, the community factors is so important. And it's so, at WIDS it's so palpable. I mean I literally walk in the door, every WIDS I've done, I think I've been doing them for theCUBE since 2017. theCUBE has been here since the beginning in 2015 with our co-founders. But you walk in, you get this sense of belonging. And this sense of I can do anything, why not? Why not me? Look at her up there, and now look at you speaking in the technical talk today on theCUBE. So inspiring. One of the things that I always think is you can't be what you can't see. We need to be able to see more people that look like you and sound like you and like me and like you as well. And WIDS gives us that opportunity, which is fantastic, but it's also helping to move the needle, really. And I was looking at some of the Anitab.org stats just yesterday about 2022. And they're showing, you know, the percentage of females in technical roles has been hovering around 25% for a while. It's a little higher now. I think it's 27.6 according to any to Anitab. We're seeing more women hired in roles. But what are the challenges, and I would love to get your advice on this, for those that might be in this situation is attrition, women who are leaving roles. What would your advice be to a woman who might be trying to navigate family and work and career ladder to stay in that role and keep pushing forward? >> I'll go back to the community. If you don't have a community around you, it's so hard to navigate. >> That's a great point. >> You are lonely. There is no one that you can bounce ideas off, that you can share what you are feeling or like that you can learn as well. So sometimes you feel like you are the only person that is going through that problem or like, you maybe have a family or you are planning to have a family and you have to make a decision. But you've never seen anyone going through this. So when you have a community, you see people like you, right. So that's where we were saying about having different people and people like you so they can share as well. And you feel like, oh yeah, so they went through this, they succeed. I can also go through this and succeed. So I think the attrition problem is still big problem. And I'm sure will be worse now with everything that is happening in Tech with layoffs. >> Yes and the great resignation. >> Yeah. >> We are going back, you know, a few steps, like a lot of like advancements that we did. I feel like we are going back unfortunately, but I always tell this, make sure that you have a community. Make sure that you have a mentor. Make sure that you have someone or some people, not only one mentor, different mentors, that can support you through this trajectory. Because it's not easy. But there are a lot of us out there. >> There really are. And that's a great point. I love everything about the community. It's all about that network effect and feeling like you belong- >> That's all WIDS is about. >> Yeah. >> Yes. Absolutely. >> Like coming over here, it's like seeing the old friends again. It's like I'm so glad that I'm coming because I'm all my old friends that I only see like maybe once a year. >> Tracy: Reunion. >> Yeah, exactly. And I feel like that our tank get, you know- >> Lisa: Replenished. >> Exactly. For the rest of the year. >> Yes. >> Oh, that's precious. >> I love that. >> I agree with that. I think one of the things that when I say, you know, you can't see, I think, well, how many females in technology would I be able to recognize? And of course you can be female technology working in the healthcare sector or working in finance or manufacturing, but, you know, we need to be able to have more that we can see and identify. And one of the things that I recently found out, I was telling Tracy this earlier that I geeked out about was finding out that the CTO of Open AI, ChatGPT, is a female. I'm like, (gasps) why aren't we talking about this more? She was profiled on Fast Company. I've seen a few pieces on her, Mira Murati. But we're hearing so much about ChatJTP being... ChatGPT, I always get that wrong, about being like, likening it to the launch of the iPhone, which revolutionized mobile and connectivity. And here we have a female in the technical role. Let's put her on a pedestal because that is hugely inspiring. >> Exactly, like let's bring everybody to the front. >> Yes. >> Right. >> And let's have them talk to us because like, you didn't know. I didn't know probably about this, right. You didn't know. Like, we don't know about this. It's kind of like we are hidden. We need to give them the spotlight. Every woman to give the spotlight, so they can keep aspiring the new generation. >> Or Susan Wojcicki who ran, how long does she run YouTube? All the YouTube influencers that probably have no idea who are influential for whatever they're doing on YouTube in different social platforms that don't realize, do you realize there was a female behind the helm that for a long time that turned it into what it is today? That's outstanding. Why aren't we talking about this more? >> How about Megan Smith, was the first CTO on the Obama administration. >> That's right. I knew it had to do with Obama. Couldn't remember. Yes. Let's let's find more pedestals. But organizations like WIDS, your involvement as a speaker, showing more people you can be this because you can see it, >> Yeah, exactly. is the right direction that will help hopefully bring us back to some of the pre-pandemic levels, and keep moving forward because there's so much potential with data science that can impact everyone's lives. I always think, you know, we have this expectation that we have our mobile phone and we can get whatever we want wherever we are in the world and whatever time of day it is. And that's all data driven. The regular average person that's not in tech thinks about data as a, well I'm paying for it. What's all these data charges? But it's powering the world. It's powering those experiences that we all want as consumers or in our business lives or we expect to be able to do a transaction, whether it's something in a CRM system or an Uber transaction like that, and have the app respond, maybe even know me a little bit better than I know myself. And that's all data. So I think we're just at the precipice of the massive impact that data science will make in our lives. And luckily we have leaders like you who can help navigate us along this path. >> Thank you. >> What advice for, last question for you is advice for those in the audience who might be nervous or maybe lack a little bit of confidence to go I really like data science, or I really like engineering, but I don't see a lot of me out there. What would you say to them? >> Especially for people who are from like a non-linear track where like going onto that track. >> Yeah, I would say keep going. Keep going. I don't think it's easy. It's not easy. But keep going because the more you go the more, again, you advance and there are opportunities out there. Sometimes it takes a little bit, but just keep going. Keep going and following your dreams, that you get there, right. So again, data science, such a broad field that doesn't require you to come from a specific background. And I think the beauty of data science exactly is this is like the combination, the most successful data science teams are the teams that have all these different backgrounds. So if you think that we as data scientists, we started programming when we were nine, that's not true, right. You can be 30, 40, shifting careers, starting to program right now. It doesn't matter. Like you get there no matter how old you are. And no matter what's your background. >> There's no limit. >> There was no limits. >> I love that, Gabriela, >> Thank so much. for inspiring. I know you inspired me. I'm pretty sure you probably inspired Tracy with your story. And sometimes like what you just said, you have to be your own mentor and that's okay. Because eventually you're going to turn into a mentor for many, many others and sounds like you're already paving that path and we so appreciate it. You are now officially a CUBE alumni. >> Yes. Thank you. >> Yay. We've loved having you. Thank you so much for your time. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> For our guest and for Tracy's Yuan, this is Lisa Martin. We are live at WIDS 23, the eighth annual Women in Data Science Conference at Stanford. Stick around. Our next guest joins us in just a few minutes. (upbeat music)

>>Okay, welcome back everyone. This is the Cube's coverage here. Monaco took a trip all the way out here to cover the Monaco crypto summit. I'm John feer, host of the cube, a lot of action happening presented by digital bits and this ecosystem that's coming together, building on top of digital bits and other blockchains to bring value at the application. These new app, super apps are emerging. Almost every category's gonna be decentralized. This is our opinion and the world believes it. And they're here as well. We've got Oscar ballet CEO co-founder of Agora verse ago is a shopping metaverse coming out soon. We'll get the dates, Oscar. Welcome to the cube. >>Thank you very much for having me. >>We were just talking before you came on camera. You're a young gun, young entrepreneur. You're a gamer. Yeah, a little bit too old to miss the eSports windows. You said, you know, like 25. It's great until that's you missed the window. I wish I was 25 gaming the pandemic with remote work, big tailwind acceleration around the idea of this new digital VI virtual hybrid world. We're living in where people want to have experiences that are similar to physical and virtual. You're doing something really cool around shopping. Yeah. Take a explain. What's going on when the, I know it's not out yet. It's in preview. Yeah. Take a minute to explain. >>Absolutely. So a goers really is a way to create those online storefront environments, virtual environments that are really much inspired by video games in their usage and kind of how the experience goes forward. We want to recreate the brand's theme, aesthetic storytelling or the NFT project as well. All of that created in a virtual setting, which is way more interesting than looking at a traditional webpage. And also you can do some crazy stuff that you can't do in real life, in a real life store, you know, with some crazy effects and lighting and stuff. So it's, it's a whole new frontier that we are trying to cover. And we believe that there is a real use case for shopping centric S experiences and to actually make the S a bit more than a buzzword than that. It is at the moment. >>Okay. So a Agora is the shopping. Metaverse a Agora verse is the company name and product name. You're on the Solona blockchain. Got my notes here, but I gotta ask you, I mean, people are trying to do this right now. We see a lot of high end clients like Microsoft showroom, showroom vibes. Yeah. Not so much. E-commerce per se, but more like the big, I mean it's low hanging fruit. Yeah. How do you guys compare to some other apps out there? Other metaverses? >>I think compared to the bigger companies, we are way more flexible and we can act way more quickly than they can. They still have a lot of ground to cover. And a lot of convincing to do with their communities of users metaverse is not really the most popular topic at the moment. It's still very much kind of looked at as a trend, as something that is just passing and they have to deal with this community interaction that is not really favorable for them. There are other questions about the metaverse that are not being talked about as often, but the ecological costs, for example, of running a metaverse like Facebook envisions it, of running those virtual headsets, running those environments. It's very costy on, on, on the ecological side of things and it's not as often mentioned. And I think that's actually their biggest challenge. >>Can you get an example for folks that don't are in the weeds on that? What's the what's what do you mean by that? The cost of build the headsets? Is it the >>Servers? It's more of the servers, really? You need to run a lot of servers, which is really costly on the environment and environmental questions are at the center of public debates. Anyways, and companies have to play that game as well. So they will have to find kind of this balance between, well, building this cool metaverse, but doing it in an ecological friendly manner as well. I think that's their toughest challenge. >>And what's your solution just using the blockchain? Well, an answer to that, cause some people say, Hey, that's not that's, that's not. So eco-friendly either, >>That's part of it. And it's also part of why we're choosing an ecosystem such as Lana as a starter. It's not limited to only Salana, but Salala is, is known as a blockchain. That is very much ecological. Inclined transactions are less polluting. And definitely this problem is, is tackled in the fact that we are offering this product on a case by case scenario brands come to us, we build this environment and we run something that is proper to them. So the scale of it is also way less important that what Facebook is trying to build. >>Yeah. They're trying to build the all encompassing. Yeah. All singing old dancing, as we say system, and then they're not getting a lot of luck. They just got slammed dunked this week on the news, I saw the, you know, FTC moved against them on the acquisition of the exercise app. >>It's it's a tough, it's a tough battle for them. Let's say they >>Still have, they got a headwind. I wouldn't say tailwind. They broke democracy. So they gotta pay for it. Right. Exactly. I always say definitely revenge going on there. I'm not a big fan of what they did. The FTC. I think that's bad move. They shouldn't block acquisitions, but they do buy, they don't really build much. That's well documented. Facebook really hasn't built anything except for Facebook. That's right. Mean what's the one thing Facebook has done besides Facebook. >>I mean, >>It's everything they've tried is failed except for Facebook. Yeah. >>So we'll see what's going on with the Methodist side. >>Well, so successful, not really one trick bony. Yeah. They bought Instagram. They bought WhatsApp, you know, and not really successful. >>That's true. They do have the, the means though, to maybe become successful with something. So >>You're walking out there, John just said, Facebook's not successful. I meant they don't. They have a one product company. They use their money to buy everything. Yeah. And that's some people don't like that, but anyway, the startups like to get bought out. Yeah. Okay. So let's get back to the metaverse it's coming out is the business model to build for others. Are you gonna have a system for users? What's what's the approach? How do you, how are we view viewing this? What's the, the business you're going after? >>So we are very much a B2B type of service where we can create custom kind of tailor made virtual environments for brands, where we dedicate our team to building those environments, which has been what we have been at the start to really kickstart the initiative. But we're also developing the tool that will allow antibody to develop their own shop themselves, using what we give them to do something kind of like the Sims for those that know, building their environment and building their shop, which will they, they, they will then be to put online and for anybody of their user base customers to have a look at. So it's, it's kind of, yeah, the tailor made experience, but also the more broader experience where we want to create this tool, develop this tool, make it accessible to the public with a subscription based model where any individual that has an idea and maybe a product that is interesting for the metaverse be able to create this virtual storefront and upload it directly. >>How long does it take to build an environment? Let's say I was, I wanna do a cube. Yeah. I go to a lot of venues all around the world. Yeah. MOSCON and San Francisco, the San convention center in Las Vegas, we're here in Monaco. How do I replicate these environments? Do I call you up and say, Hey, I need some artists. Do you guys render it? What's the take us through the process. >>Yeah. It's, it's basically a case by case scenario at the moment, very much. We're working with our partners that find brands that are interested in getting into the metaverse and we then design the shops. Well, it depends on the brands. Some have a really clear idea of what they want. Some are a bit more open to it and they're like, well, we have this and this, can you build something? >>I mean, I mean, I can see the apple store saying, Hey, you know, they're pretty standard apple stores. You got cases of iWatches. Yeah. I mean that's easily to, replicateable probably good ROI for them. >>Exactly. It's it's is that what you're thinking? Their team. Exactly. Yeah. It depends. And we, we want to add a layer of something cuz just replicating the store simply. Yeah. It's it's maybe not as interesting, you know, it just, oh, okay. I'm in the store. It's white, everywhere. It's apple. Right. It's like, oh I'm in at the dentist, but we want to add some video game elements to the, to those experiences. But very subtle ones, ones that won't make you feel, oh, I'm playing one of these games, you know? It's yeah. Very supple. >>You can, you can jump into immersive experience as defined by the brand. Yeah. I mean the brand will control the values. So you're say apple and you're at the iWatch table. Yeah. You could have a digital assistant pop in there with an avatar. Exactly. You can jump down a rabbit hole and say, Hey, I want this iWatch. I'm a bike mountain biker. For example, I could get experience of mountain biking with my watch on I fall off, ambulance sticks me up. I mean, all these things that they advertise is what goes >>On. Yeah. And we can recreate these experiences and what they're advertising and into a more immersive experience is what we're trying to our, our goal is to create experiences. We know that, you know, why does someone is someone spend so much at Disneyland? It's like triple the price of whatever, because you know, it's Mickey mouse around you. It's, that's the experience that comes around. And often the experience is more important than the product. Sometimes >>It's hard. It's really hard to get that first class citizen experience with the event or venue physical. Yeah. Which is a big challenge. I know the metaverse are gonna try to solve this. So I gotta ask you what's your vision on solving that? Okay. Cause that's the holy grail. That's what we're talking about here. Yeah. I got a physical event or place. I wanna replicate it in the metaverse but create that just as good first party citizen like experience. >>Yeah. I mean that's the whole event event type of business side of the metaverse is also a huge one. It's one that we are choosing to tackle after the e-commerce one. But it's definitely something that has been asked a lot by the brands where like we want to create, like, we want to release this store for an event that is in real life, but we want to make it accessible to the largest number. That's why we saw with Fortnite as well. All those events, the fashion week in the central land. And >>Sand's a Cub in the Fortnite too. >>There you go. And so the, the event aspect is super important and we want those meta shops to be places where a brand can organize an event. Let's say they want to make the entrance paid. They can do an NFD for that if they want. And then they have to, the user has to connect the NFD to access the event with an idea. Right. But that's definitely possible. And that's how we leverage blockchain as well with those companies and say, you know, you're not familiar with >>This method. You're badging, you know, you're the gaming where we were talking earlier. Yeah. Badging and credentials and access methods. A tech concept can be easily forwarded to NFTs. Yeah, >>Exactly. Exactly. And brands are interested in that. >>Sure. Of course. Yeah. By being the NFT. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. So I gotta ask you the origination story. Take me through the, the, how this all started. Yeah. Was it a seat of an idea you and your friends get together? Yeah. It was an it scratch. And when you're really into this, what's the origination story and where you're at now. >>So we started off in January really with a, quite a, a different idea. It was called the loft business club. It's an NFT collection on the Salina blockchain. And the whole idea beyond it is that NFT holders would have access to their virtual apartments that we called the lofts. It got very popular. We got a really big following at the start. It was really the trend back in January, February. And we managed to, to sell out successfully the whole collection of 5,000 NFTs. And yeah, we started as a group of friends, really like-minded friends from my hometown in, in, met in France who are today, the co-founders and the associates with different backgrounds. Leo has the marketing side of things. A club has the 3d designing. We had all our different skills coming into it. Obviously my English was quite helpful as well cause French people in English it's, it's not often the best French English. Yeah. And I was, the COO has been doing amazing on the kind of the serious stuff. You know, the taxis lawyers >>Operational to all of trains running on time. >>Exactly >>Sure. People get their jobs done. >>Yeah, exactly. So >>It's well too long of a lunch cuz you know, French would take what, two hour lunches. Yeah. You >>Have to enjoy it. Yeah. >>Coffee and stuff. That's wine, you know about creative, >>But yeah, it's, it's a friend stuff that started as a, as a passion project and got so quick. And today I'm here talking to you in this setting. It's like, >>You're pretty excited. >>I mean it's super excited. It's such a we're you know, we feel like we're building something that's new and our developer team, we're now a team of 15 in total with developers based in Paris, mostly. And everybody is, is feeling like, you know, they're contributing to something new and that's, what's exciting about it. You know, it's something that's not really done or it's trying to be done, but nobody really knows the way >>It's pioneering days. But the, but the pandemic has shifted the culture faster because people like certainly the gen Zs are like, I don't wanna reuse that old stuff. Yeah. And, but they still want to go to like games or events or go to stores. Yeah. But once to go to a store, I mean, I go to apple store all the time where I live in Palo Alto, California. And it's like, yeah, I love that store. And I know it by heart. I don't, I don't have to go there. Yeah. Walking into the genius bar virtually I get the same job done. Yeah, >>Exactly. That's that's what we want to do. And the other pandemic is just it's it's been all about improving, you know, people's condition, life conditions at home, I think. And that's what kind of boosted the whole metaverse conversation and Facebook really grabbing onto it as well. It's just that people were stuck at home and for gamers, that's fine. We used to be stuck at home playing video games all day. Yeah. We survived the pandemic fine. But for other people it was a bit more of a new >>Experience. Well, Oscar, one of the cool things is that you said like mind you and your founding team, always the secret to success. But now you see a lot of old guys like me and gals coming in too, your smart people are like-minded they get it. Especially ones that have seen the ways before, when you have this kind of change, it's a cultural shift and technology shift and business model shift at the same time. Yeah. And to me there's gonna be chaos, but at the end of the day, >>I mean there's fun and >>Chaos. That's opportunity. There's a fun and fun and opportunity. >>It's fun and chaos, you know, and yeah. Likeminded people and the team has really been the driving factor with our company. We are all very much excited about what we're doing and it's been driving us forward. >>Well, keep in touch. Thanks for coming on the cube and sharing, sharing a story with us in the world. We really appreciate we'll keep in touch with you guys. Do love what you do. Oscar ballet here inside the cube Argo verse eCommerce shop. The beginning of this wave is happening. The convergence of physical virtual is a hybrid mode. It's a steady state. It is not gonna go away. It's only gonna get bigger, more cooler, more relevant than ever before. Cube covering it like a blanket here in Monaco, crypto summit. I'm John furrier. We'll be right back after this short break.

(upbeat techno music) >> Announcer: From New York City, it's theCUBE, covering New Relic FutureStack 2019, brought to you by the New Relic. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and this is theCUBE's exclusive coverage of New Relic's Futurestack 2019 here in New York City, seventh year of the show. Our first year here, about 600 or so in attendance, and real excited, because we've had some of the users here to help kick off our coverage. And joining us, first time guest on the program, Josh Biggely is a senior engineer of Enterprise Monitoring, with Cardinal Health coming to us from a little bit further north and east than I do, Prince Edward Island, thank you so much for coming here to New York City and joining me on the program. >> Yeah, thanks for having me Stu, I'm excited to be here. I haven't been in New York, it's probably been more two decades. So it's nice to be back in a big city, I live in a very small place. >> Yeah, so if you go to Times Square, it's now Disneyland, is what we call it. It's not the 42nd street that it might've been a couple of decades ago. I grew up about 45 minutes from here, so it's gone through a lot, love the city, especially gorgeous weather we're having here in the fall. >> I'm excited for it. >> All right, so Josh, Cardinal Health, health is in the name so we think we understand a little bit about it, but tell us a little bit about the organization itself and how it's going through changes these days. >> Sure, so Cardinal Health is a global healthcare solutions provider. We are essential to care, which means we deliver the products and solutions that your healthcare providers need to literally cure disease, keep people healthy. So we're in 85% of the hospitals in the United States, 26,000 pharmacies, about 3,000,000 different home healthcare users receive products from us. Again we're global, so we're based in Dublin, Ohio, just outside of Columbus. But obviously, I live in Canada so I work for the Cardinal Health Canada Division. We've got acquisitions around the world. So yeah, it's an exciting company. We've recently gone through a transformation not only as a company, but from a technology side where we've shifted one of our data centers entirely into the cloud. >> All right, and Josh, your role inside the company, tell us a little bit about, you said it's global, what's under your purview? >> So my team is responsible for Enterprise Monitoring, and that means that we develop, deploy, support and integrate solutions for monitoring both infrastructure applications and digital experience for our customers. We have a number of tools, including New Relic, that we use. But it's a broad scope for a small team. >> Stu: Okay, and you've talked about that transformation. Walk us through a little bit about that, what led to, as you said, some big moves into public cloud? >> Yeah, our team is part of an overall effort to allow Cardinal Health to be more adaptive, to be more agile. The move to cloud allows teams that are developing applications and platforms to make a decision how to respond to the needs of their customers more rapidly. Gone are the days of, "I need a new server, "I need to predict six months from now "that I'm going to need a new server, "put the order in, get it delivered, "get it racked, get it wired." We watch a lot of people, the provision on demand. I mean, our senior vice president, or my senior vice president, likes to say, "I want you to fail fast, fail cheap." He does not say fail often. Although sometimes I do that, but that's okay. As long as you recognize that you're failing and can roll that back, redeploy, It's been really transformative for my team in particular, who was very infrastructure focused when I started with the company five years ago. >> Stu: All right, and can you bring us inside from your application portfolio, was it a set of applications, was it an entire data center? What moved over, how long did it take, and can you share what cloud you're using? >> Sure, so it's been about a two year journey. We're actually a multicloud company. We've got a small footprint in Azure, small footprint in AWS, but we're primarily in Google Cloud. We are shutting down one data center, we are minimizing another data center, and we've moved everything. We've moved everything from small bespoke applications that are targeted on team to entire ecommerce platforms and we've done everything from lift and shift, which I know you don't like to hear. But we've done lift and shift, we've done rehosting, we've done refactoring and we have re-architected entire platforms. >> Yeah, so if you could expand a little bit when we say lift and shift, I'm fine with lift and shift as long as there's another word or plan after that which I'm expecting you do have. >> Josh: Yeah, absolutely. So the lift and shift was, "Hey, let's move from our data centers into GCP. "Let's give teams the visibility, the observability "that they need so that they can make the decisions on "what they need to do best." In a lot of cases, or in fact, in 15% of the 6,500 severs that we touch, we actually full out decommed the instance. Teams had them, they were running at our data centers but they weren't actually providing any value to the company. >> So you said your team before was mostly concerned about infrastructure and a lot of what you did is now on GCP so you fired the entire team and you hired a bunch of PhDs to be able to manage Google environments? >> Absolutely not. (laughter) The principals of enterprise monitoring as a practice still apply in a cloud. We are, at heart, data geeks. And I would fair say that we're actually data story tellers. Our job is to give tools and methodologies to application teams who know what the data means in context, but we give the tools to provide that data to them. >> Stu: All right, love that. I believe I've actually seen data geek shirts at the the New Relic shows itself. But data story tellers, that was kind of thing that you heard, "I have a data scientist "that's going to help us to do this." Is that data scientist in New York or are you actually enabling who is able to tell those data stories today? >> So that is the unique part. Data story telling is not a data science. I wish that I could be a data scientist, I like math, but I'm not nearly that good at it. A data story teller takes the data and the narrative of the business, and weaves them together. When you tell someone, "Here's some data." They will look at it and they will develop their own narrative around it. But as a story teller you help craft that narrative for them. They're going to look at that data and they're going to feel it, They're going to understand it and it's going to motivate them to act in a way that is aligned with what the business objectives are. So data story tellers come in all forms. They come as monitoring engineers, they're app engineers, but they're also people who are facing the customer, they're business leaders, they're people in our distribution centers who are trying to understand the impacts of orders in their order flow, in their personnel that they have. It is a discipline that anyone can engage in if we're willing to give them the right tools. >> All right, so Josh, you got rid of a data center, you're minimizing a data center, you're shifting to cloud, you're making a lot of changes and now being able to tell data stories. Can you tell us organizationally everything goes smoothly or are their anythings that you learned along the way that maybe you could share with your peers to help them along that journey? And any rough spots, with hindsight being what it is, that you might be able to learn from? >> Yeah, so hindsight definitely 20/20. The one thing that I would say to folks is get your data right. Metadata, trusting your data is key, it's absolutely vital. We talk a lot about automation and automation is one of those things that the cloud enables very nicely. If you automate on garbage data, you are going to automate garbage generation. That was one of our struggles but I think that every organization struggles with data fidelity. But teams need to spend more time in making sure that their data, specifically their metadata, around, "Hey is this prod, is it non-prod, "what stack is this running, who built it?" Those things definitely need to be sorted out. >> Okay, talk about the observability and the monitoring that you do, how long have you been using New Relic and what products? And tell us a little about that journey. >> Sure, so we've been using New Relic for about two years. It was a bit of a slow run up to its adoption. We are a multi-tool company so we have a number of tools. Some of them are focused primarily on our network infrastructure, our on-prem storage. Although Cardinal had moved predominantly to the cloud, we have distribution centers, nuclear pharmacies all around the world. And those facilities have not gone into the cloud. So you've got network connectivity. New Relic for us has filled our cloud niche and observability, as Lou announced, is going to give us context to things that we're after. You hear the term dark data, we call them obs logs. It's data that we want to have, we only need it for a very short period of time to help us do post-op or RCAs as well as to look at, overall in our organization, the performance of the applications. For us, New Relic is going to give us an option to put data for observability. Observability is really about high fidelity data. In its world of cloud, everyone wants everything right now. And they also want it down to the millisecond. A platform that can pull that off, that's a remarkable thing. >> Yeah, Veruca Salt had it right, "I want it now." So are you using New Relic One yet? >> We have been using New Relic One for at least a couple of months going back into March this year. It's exciting, we're one of those companies that Lou talked about in his key note, we have hundreds of sub accounts. And we did so very intentfully, but it was a bit of a nightmare before we got to New Relic One. That ability for a platform team to see across multiple sub accounts, really powerful. >> Okay, so you saw a lot of announcements this morning. Anything particular that jumped out, you were excited? Because Lou kept saying over and over, and if you're using New Relic One, "This is free, this is free, this is free." That platform where it's all available for you now. >> I think the programmability is one of the things that really got me excited. One of the engineers on my team had a chance to go and sit with Lou and team, two weeks ago, and was part of that initial Hackathon. Made some really interesting things. That's exciting so shout out to Zack and the work he did. Logging, for me, is something that is huge. I know we've got data that we should have in context. So that Lou announced five terabytes of ingestion for free, all I could do was tap my fingers together and think, "Oh, okay. You're asking for it, Lou. Challenge accepted." (laughter) >> Stu: That's exciting, right. So you feel that you're going to be building apps, it sounds like already, at the FutureHack. That you're starting to move down that path. >> Definitely, and I'm really excited. Not to necessarily give it to my team. We build the patterns for teams that needs patterns, but there are so many talented individuals at Cardinal Health who, if we give them the patterns to follow, they're just going to go execute. Open sourcing that is a brilliant idea and really crowd sourcing development is the way to go. >> Yeah, I think you bring up a really interesting point. So even though your team might be the one that provides the platform, you're giving that programmability, sensibility to a broader audience inside the team and democratizing the data that you have in there. >> Yes, you keyed in on one of the things I love to talk about which is democratized access to data. Over and over again you'll hear me preach that, "I know what I know but I also know what I don't know "and more particular I don't know what I don't know. "I need other people to help me recognize that." >> We've really talked about that buzzword out there about digital transformation. When it is actually being happened, it goes from, "Oh, somebody had an opinion," to, "Wait, I actually now can actually get to the data, "and show you the data and leverage the data "to be able to take good actions on that." >> That's right, data driven decision making is not just just an idiom. It's not something that is a buzzword, it is a practice that we all need to follow. >> Stu: All right, so Josh, you're speaking here at the show. Give our audience just a quick taste, if you will, about what you're going to be sharing with your peers here at the show. >> We've actually talked about a lot of it already so I hope that people are not going to watch this session before my session later. But it really is around the power of additional transformation, the power of observability, what happens when you do things right, and the way the cloud makes teams more nimble. I won't give you it all because then people won't watch my session on Replay but, yeah, it'll be good. >> Well, definitely they should check that out. I'm hoping New Relic has that available on Replay. Give the final word here, what you're really hoping to come out of this week. Sounds like your team's deeply engaged, you've done the Hackathon, you're working with the executive teams. So FutureStack 2019, what are you hoping to walk away with? >> For me, it's about developing patterns. My team, in addition to our enterprise architecture team, is responsible for mapping out what we're going to do and how we're going to do it. Teams want to go fast and if we're not going to lay down the foundation for them to move quickly, especially in the realm of enterprise monitoring, they're going to try do it themselves. Which may or may not work. We don't want to turn teams away from using specific tools if it fits, but if there's a platform that will allow them to execute and to keep all that data centralized, that is really the key to observability. Having that high fidelity data, but then being able to ask questions, not just of the data you put in, but the data that put in maybe by a platform team or by a team that supported Kubernetes or PCF. >> All right, well, Josh Biggely, thank you so much for sharing all that you've been going through in Cardinal Health's transformation. Great to talk to you. >> Thanks so much, Stu. >> All right, lots more here at New Relic's FutureStack 2019. I'm Stu Miniman and as always, thank you for watching theCUBE. (light techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Anaheim, California. It's theCUBE, covering Nutanix.NEXT, 2019. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back the theCUBE's live coverage of Nutanix.NEXT here in Anaheim California. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. Along with my co-host John Furrier. Here we are, we're at day two, John, this conference, I gotta say it's pretty cool. 6500 people, we're steps away from Disneyland, and, you go to a lot of these things every year. I also do about a dozen or so for theCUBE. So in other words, we're veterans of this kind of thing. This does seem to have a different vibe and I think it really gets to the kind of company Nutanix is, and where it is in its journey. >> Nutanix is still a small company even though they're 10 years old, as Dheeraj talks about. The numbers aren't massive, I mean, we go to a lot of other shows where it's 15,000, Amazon Web Services just had an event in London, Dave Vellante was out there covering, Stu was covering Red Hat summit in Boston this week, tons of events going on. Amazon Web Services' summit in comparison was 12,500 people, 22,000 registered, that's a summit in London. It's not the re:Invent main conferences like 30,000 people. And that's always sold out, so they got a lot, in terms of attendees numbers they're still in the entry level, mid range growth. But I think that's okay, they like that culture and I think the story here at this show is intimacy, they would rather err on the side of better content and more intimate opportunities for their customers to really get the straight scoop. And I think it's less of a conference slash trade show, more of an intimate relationships where they can provide feedback, for customers to give feedback, and for Nutanix to figure out with the customers how to connect to them. So, I think the story here is, Nutanix is growing up as a company, they're 10 years old and they gotta go the next level and the management team has technical chops, and they have a long term view. They have that 20 mile stare, they can see out and they're trying to figure it out. I still think that the numbers are light on their forecast I still think that there's some sandbagging going on there, I'm not saying they're sandbagging, but I mean, I think, you look at Essentials, which is the enterprise and then multi-cloud, the numbers that we're seeing at Wikibon are much bigger, and Amazon reflects that. So I think they're being cautious but smart about how they execute off their success they've had in the first 10 years to go the next 10 to 20 years and I think that's clear in the management team, that they wanna build a durable company. >> Well exactly, and I think that that's what's really coming through, is that this is, as you said, they're growing up. This is a real coming of age moment for them, they've celebrated the 10 years. Okay, so what kind of company are we? Who do we want to be? And what's coming through is that from the technology side, they get it. They say, I'm sort of reminded of the Henry David Thoreau quote, our life is frittered away by detail, simplify simplify simplify, that's what customers want. They want this one click data recovery, they want their credentials to be assumed. You know who I am, I'm safe to be in here. Fixing things, dealing with that. So I think that they get that, that simplicity is key. They also get customer service. I mean their Net Promoter scores, as we've noted, are in the 90s, that's just unheard of. >> It's monster, monster numbers. >> It really is and so they get it. We need to be responsive to customers, we need to have a personal relationship with these, because it's not just organizations, it's people at the other end of these transactions. >> I mean, I think Nutanix, one of the stories that's popping out in the hallways as I walk around and talk to customers and people and the company and partners, is that Nutanix has a lot of headroom in their growth. I think Wall Street is interesting and you heard Dheeraj talk about that yesterday, about having a new customer, you asked him about his management style and he said quote, I have a new customer called Wall Street. And I have to balance that against mainstream enterprise which is his core business. And so he as a CEO and the company are dealing with this new stakeholder called public company customer retail stock buyers. That's a short term cycle and I think, if you look at their stock, they had a big knife edge drop in the past quarter. And I think the shorts are circling, it's a whole nother dynamic, it's a whole nother theater for Nutanix to deal with, and I think that's something that they gotta get used to. And he was clear, he said I'm addressing it, we're gonna balance it, but they gotta be thinking long term because this company has a lot more to do and their customer base are risk takers. Because everyone we talk to has this different style or persona. They're smart, they're usually engineering oriented, they love engineered solutions. And they're taking chances. And everyone who's taken the chance with Nutanix, has paid off. That seems to be the theme. And as we were talking before we came on camera, Mark Hamill, Jedi knight, you know, Star Wars, was on stage giving the keynote, their customer base, is a lot like the Jedi order, right? I mean they see themselves as, elite, technically, they're not afraid to take organizational risks and push that DevOps culture. And we heard that from Sunil, the chief product officer that they're really looking at, this new way to do things, like they did with hyperconvergence, they pioneered that, set the table on that and foundationally built that. They wanna take that same playbook of HCI, hyperconverged infrastructure, and apply it to the cloud. And provide an abstraction layer advantage and I think that is clearly their strategy and that's, to me, the top story here. >> I couldn't agree more and I also think that, what is also coming through is this idea of we don't wanna be safe. What's clear is that, consumer technologies have leapfrogged IT enterprise vendors. The things that we hold in our pockets are so much more sophisticated than what businesses and organizations, multi-billion dollar businesses and organizations, are using, what their employees are using on a day to day basis. So we expect a certain kind of design and ease of use, in our personal lives and they're bringing it to enterprises and think that that is really what's exciting and interesting about this company. >> What's interesting about their story is that, the consistent theme about the customers is that it's kind of a consolidation story but that's not the real story because back in the old days of IT, consolidation was the strategy. Consolidate vendors, consolidate footprint to reduce cost, clearly a cost reduction. With Nutanix what they get is they get consolidation, and they enable advantages so the real value of Nutanix is to be positioned for those new kinds of app developers, so. This is like, you get consolidation as a side benefit for enabling the value, and that's the theme that's coming out of all the customer testimonials and interviews is, we gotta do more, we gotta create more enablement for the app developers and we gotta provide more performant storage servers and software for the customers. And that's their main focus and they consolidation as a benefit. That's gonna scare a lot of people and customers that I've talked to said, hey I got all the stuff but I can't just throw it away tomorrow, I gotta move it out over time, so, this is the Nutanix sales challenge, how do you move faster with all that incumbent, legacy stuff in these datacenters, while enabling the multi-cloud capability? >> And we're gonna be talking about that more today with Chris Kaddaras on the show. We have a lot of great guests, we have the CIO, Wendy Pfeiffer, I was reading an article about her today, she answered an ad as a teenager to work for NASA. She had an idea for NASA and so we're gonna hear much more about her story, we've got a lot of great guests. >> Well what's your take? I mean, you've been here, you're getting immersed in. What's your take of the show, what's your analysis? >> Well, what's really interesting to me is that we're having this conversation against this backdrop where, the technology industry is really under fire. I mean, we heard Ayanna Howard here on the show yesterday and then she was up on the main stage today, talking about the good, the bad, and then the really scary elements of AI and how it really has these powers that can do a lot of wonderful things and help children with special needs and help workers be more productive and engaged and collaborate. But yet, there's also this much darker side that AI's really only as good as its creators. And then the other difficulty is that, because we have become so trusting of these machines, we disregard our own intuition. And that is a really scary element, so. What I think is exciting, and it goes back to this risk taking mentality, that Nutanix has, is, we're gonna talk about these things. We're just going to forget about them or they're gonna be a sideshow, this is really on the main stage, let's talk about our values, let's talk about the humanity of technology and this is really an important part of the conversation. >> It's interesting, the culture, we talked about the culture a lot yesterday. And you can see from the mix of the guests we've had here and how they're putting their content together across the show portfolio, it's not just speeds and feeds. There's a lot of tech for good angle but they're not tech for good stories like hey, look, here's a tech for good story. Look how good we are because we promote it. They're authentic people that have a great story that has a tech involvement. But it's not a pure Nutanix messaging kind of thing. >> Right, and it goes to back to their values, the humble, hungry, honest, and have a lot of heart. I mean I think that that is, you really see how important culture is, when it is top down. When Dheeraj embodies certain characteristics and traits, you see that employees then look up and they say okay, this is what we're about, this is who we are. >> You know, we also talked yesterday about our analysis in the keynote, what's interesting about culture is, there's also a culture shift going on inside their customer base. And again, it's back to this kind of Star Wars theme, Jedi knights and the revolution continuing for Nutanix, their opportunity is to continue to stay on the course, and this is gonna be a big bet for them, they gotta make some big bets on the technology side, which they're making, but also they have an opportunity because a lot of their installed base are rebels, right? So you have this rebellion IT guy, generational shift where you have DevOps coming in and Gene Kim who wrote the book on DevOps, runs the biggest DevOps event in the world, series of events, DevOps Enterprise Summit, he's even saying it's about 3% changeover. So I think there's a big tailwind coming for Nutanix. Around DevOps, operating models, in the enterprise and cloud where, the convergence of those two worlds coming together, and it's gonna be a younger generation, it's gonna be a different world. If that happens, I think that's gonna be something that Wall Street might not see. I think that's kind of an area. And that's gonna be a good tailwind for Nutanix. The other notable thing that I would point out from this show is, the presence of VMware visibly in the conversation. And I think Dheeraj was talking about, hey we don't mind talking about VMware because they validate the marketplace, they're the big 800 pound gorilla. And we're gonna continue to innovate around them. We don't need their Hypervisor, customers don't need to pay their vTax, that's his messaging, so that was a key notable. The other one was the challenge that Nutanix has, this is, again, might be a Wall Street insight for some of the Wall Street folks out there is that, their challenge has been getting new logos. Their cost to sales is a little bit high because they require POCs and once they get in there they usually win. And then their cost per sales, cost per order dollar on the sales side once they have a customer, is very low, they get more renewals and they have more net contract value so they have great customer economics on that side. The Hewlett Packard Enterprise deal for them, could bring them a tsunami of new logos. That could give them a lot of leverage and bring their customer base well above their 12,000 number now. And bring them up into a whole nother level. So I think the HPE deal will be a tell sign on the numbers, and if they can get more new logos in there, the big accounts that HP has through their channel, that's a big story. So VMware, HPE, culture, all the main story here. >> And of course we had HPE on the show yesterday, talking about that very development, so. We have lots more great content, great guests to come today, this has been just a ball hosting with you, so I'm really for another day. >> Very intimate show, I mean, Nutanix are a very intimate show they don't really care about the big numbers, they want the right numbers and that speaks to their culture. >> And they know their people. Because as we talked about many times, Mark Hamill, up on the stage yesterday, so, they know their community. Please stay tuned for more of the coverage from theCUBE of .NEXT here in Anaheim. I'm Rebecca Knight for John Furrier, stay tuned. (electronic music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS Reinvent 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel and their ecosystem partners. >> And welcome to Las Vegas, we're in the Sands now for AWS re:Invent day one, here for all three days, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, exclusive CUBE coverage here. I'm John Walls with Justin Warner and John Ferrier. Gentlemen, good to see you, it's been a while since we had the band together so it's good to be back. >> Well we can reinvent, everyone is going to run the marathon, it's a hard hitting show, it's the wall-to-wall coverage. Started with what they call Midnight Madness kind of played off March Madness. Sunday at midnight kicks off the show, they have a party that goes well into the evening, to get the launches out there. >> I don't want to ask where you were at that time. >> I was actually coming home from Phoenix, from a family trip but I'll be coming this year but this even, wall-to-wall coverage, here at The Cube, three days of live broadcast. It really kicked off yesterday, there's evening events, 52 000 people, it is packed, it feels like you're walking through Disneyland on the busiest day, really is crazy. A ton of networking, a lot of customers. This is Amazon's biggest show, it's really awesome and it's a great way to see the formation of the industry. So it really is the industry Super Bowl event as Dave (mumbles) says and watching how people form, how their posture is, what their messaging is and our job, we're going to split through that this week, we're going to extract from the messaging and the conversations, get the story, get to the truth, shortcut to the data and should be fun. >> Well, let's talk about the head coach here in AWS. You've had a chance to sit down with him recently. We'll hear the key note tomorrow morning but just give you a little sneak peak of what you think is coming from Mr Jassy and what do you think the message is that he wants to deliver? >> Well, we've been covering Amazon since its founding, or our founding eight years ago and seven years they started reInvent, eight years ago, we are seven years, this is our seventh year at reInvent. So we get to know Jassy So he invites me every year for a one-on-one. This year, I did it at his house. He's got a sport bar in his basement. Tricked out sports bar, great football game was on, Chiefs against the Chargers, we watched that, two and a half hours I spent with him really kind of getting a feel for what's on his mind. How he's thinking about the business because a lot of, he's having a lot of pinch-me moments where certainly they're winning, they're blowing away field in my opinion in cloud computing. I think there's really not even a close second place although Microsoft's got the chops, they're doing their gaming, Google's got the tech and they're repositioning, you know, how does he feel? He's humble as they come and he's got the management discipline, but he was really kind of saying to me, hey, great leaders are listening to customers and he was walking back his position on hybrid cloud because clearly they're going to make some big announcements here around hybrid cloud but I got insight into his mind and he's not done and these guys are not celebrating in the end zone, they're not high fiving each other, they've got a lot of work to do and still, people are not using the cloud like they really are in their mind. I think things like Lambda and the announcements we'll be expecting to see here today is going to set the stage for a new set of apps and I think there's going to be a renaissance of software development, they recognize it, they recognize that the competition's hotter, they recognize that they got to get better and raise the bar and that's what they're doing. They have a cadens to their management style that I think is historic in this era of leadership and the likes of all the Uber scandals, Facebook, the scandals of the management team of Facebook. No one trusts corporate America. Amazon's got this execution style that kind of reminds me back in the old days, Intel had or an HP back in the day. They actually kick ass as a management team. They're focused, they're not celebrating and they're clearly guns glaring. SO they're doing the work. I still think that they see the world as still competitive, there are things out there that I think scares them, although he didn't say CNCF directly but there's things out there forming that could dis-intermediate the greatness of AWS and that's just natural competition and his philosophy, Justin is, bring it on. >> Well, I was just in China funnily enough for CNCF Cube, CNCF club native con, Cube con. The first one that they held in China and it was amazing to see what the Chinese are actually doing. So we ear a lot over here in Europe and over here in the Western world. There's a lot of conversation about Amazon and Google and Microsoft, but you never hear the words Tencent or Alibaba, they don't come up a lot and yet what Alibaba and Tencent are doing over there is amazing so I think if we're thinking about the competition in a global sense, then certainly Amazon needs to be right onto of their game because yeah, we might have some stumbles from Google as we've seen and Microsoft, still a little bit behind the plan but if you look at globally and see what's happening over there in China, there's a lot that they should be worried about. >> Well, give me a such as. When you talk about Alibaba doing things that maybe aren't happening here, for example. >> There was some amazing stuff around our AI machine learning that they were doing around grid management of renewable energy and distribution around the entire country of China. So there are things that are possible in China that are not quite as easy to do over here in the West. It's a lot easier when you have one person in charge of all of the things and they can say, we're going to go and do that. It's a little bit more, there's a lot more negotiation required over this side. >> And you think too about China as the mobile penetration is higher there and they're very data centered. You look at the United States, even in the IT world. Dell, HP's, the Oracle's of the world, the old IT guard essentially had that data but now you got data on phones, with this proximity, you've got edge of the network. The data is going to live in a lot of places and in our legacy infrastructure and IT in North America, Dell doesn't have anything to do with my phone or HP, that's just service so the old way of storing data and where data lives and how data's being used is radically changing. >> Yeah, there's a lot of stuff happening at the edge. We have some presentations on wind farms. So you have compute lives in wind farms and they're actually sampling the air and finding out what the weather patterns are like, feeding that back into central systems and they're having to design systems that are able to be deployed, the same thing, cookie cutter all over the country, distributed around the place where you've got latency and communication issues, where you've got power distribution issues. So you have to think about the way you're deploying these infrastructure, completely differently than if you centralize in one cloud or even in a data center or you're running it yourself. So they're actually thinking about things in a layered sense. So it's not just one size fits all, it's actually we need sides, multiple different sizes to fit lots of different things. >> And what, I mean John you got off the phone with 5G on the horizon. I can only imagine the exponential explosion we're going to see in data coming in from sensors and IoT, you talk about edge and faster, more, where's all that going? >> So I got a little reporter's notebook here from my meeting with Jassy and also connecting the dots what's going to be announced. There's going to be an announcement today around 11 o'clock this morning around maybe Jassy announcing new connectivity option and what you're seeing is that Amazon recognizing that IoT at the edge, Internet of Things is sensors as wind farms so this IoT is about power and connectivity. Without power and connectivity, IoT doesn't really exist. SO these new kinds of internet infrastructure data devices that need computer, you got to have power, you got to have connectivity and they might not have the worst power on a safe phone, although this is a, plenty of power on there. You want to take advantage of bigger data sets. You've got to go back to the cloud. So the cloud is becoming the brain and that's what Andy Jassy said to me, he said the cloud is going to be the brains and the edge can be, use some processing, we're going to send compute there if we need it. We don't want to move data around because latency will kill. So we're expecting Amazon to announce new services around connectivity where you can stand up things like satellites as a service and that's what's going to be announced at 11 o'clock. I just got that out there so we'll see if that's confirmed or not. (John Walls laughs) Two hours early if you watch this, don't tweet this, I'll get in trouble. >> Is that cat out of the bag. I think yeah, go ahead. >> Well you know, it's a brief guess, I heard some rumbles in the hallway but we'll see what the details are but this is a new kind of progressive thinking, this is what I love about AWS and Jassy, they're not afraid to use their scale and power to push new capabilities, not just extract ranch from customers and by standing up connectivity, this is a weak link in the equation of IoT. There's a lot of things that need power and connectivity and if you have good processing power and compute at the edge, that's going to happen. So Andy's philosophy and Amazon's philosophy is consistent with Wikibon research and most analysts have discussed in this strand that you want to move compute to the edge, not move data back to the cloud. This is fundamentally the shift that's going on with services like Lambda, you can power up things in hundreds of milliseconds versus an instance of ten seconds. This is changing the software development paradigm. This is a tailwind, this is going to power new work loads so you see Amazon recognizing this, increasing power compute to the edge, offering connectivity ops where there isn't any. Making things faster with compute and then moving up the stack. This is going to be a big part of this show. We're expecting to see if Amazon is going to move up the stack. Aurora, Sagemaker and levels of services that they're going to allow developers, new kind of software development where truly the dream of (mumbles) of not knowing anything about the infrastructure could be realized. >> That is a pretty big shift for Amazon 'cause they've always been talking about themselves as undifferentiated heavy lifting as one of their analysts told me it some years ago. That was their idea, was that we're just going to be the utility service that is the one true way that you should use it and it will be ubiquitous in the same way that you have power as a utility, you rent it and you just use it and you build other things on top of that. So it's interesting that we're now starting to see that Amazon themselves are building things on top of what they've already created in the same way that S3 was build on top of EC2, so now we're seeing this layering effect of we built the underlying technologies and now we're going to start putting extra value technologies on top of that and that's where to start to see things like as a services, serverless Lambda being built on top of all this underlying stuff. We're going to start seeing some really interesting stuff coming form Amazon. >> I'd like to hear from you guys, you've talked about what you think AWS is going to talk about. What do you want them to talk about. What do you want to hear form them this week, whether it's a challenge they have to take on or whether it's about the competitive landscape what is it between the two of you that's you'd like to hear them address. >> I would like to hear their position on the software development paradigm around moving between clouds. I know they don't like the word multi-cloud, hybrid cloud's the word that they choose. They don't actually use the word multi-cloud, hybrid cloud is their word. They see the world in a very specific way which I don't disagree with. On premises with clouds, operations and seamless consistency around both, how that works and what is means for the customer is what I want to know. WHat's the switching cost involved, what's the benefit to customers, it's going to be a lock inspect. I want to hear about some of the migration stories, I want to hear them talk about migrations. I don't think migration to the cloud has been successful for Amazon as they had hoped. I think when you look at what's going on in the enterprise, legacy workloads that run payroll around mainframes, they're going to stay there and no-one's moving that to the cloud 'cause why would I want to rewrite that. So this is the interesting thing. So I want to hear them talk about how they're going to handle a workload that's on premises, that's legacy, that's part of a production mission critical application and how that's going to work with new services via APIs. Stable data, things of that nature. I want to hear how they're going to handle containers and Kubernetes, 'cause this is going to be the key linchpin between moving data and services via APIs and web services, this is the holy grail. They can address that in a clear way, I would be happy and I expect them to see them do things like put a VM container around containers. A lot of competitive strategy going on, so I'm trying to look for the chess moves on the board. Kubernetes and containers is a big one. >> The customer, in terms of helping customers, I would actually like to see, I think similarly, see Amazon relax we are the one true way message that they've been hammering pretty hard for a long, long time. If you do cloud, it has to be us and we're really the only the cloud that exist. That's caused a lot of issues inside particularly enterprise customers who have, as you say, they've got legacy applications, or we'd like to call them heritage applications. They work, they've been debugged, they're sold applications. Rewriting those adds a lot of risk and a lot of IT projects found, more than 50% of them fail. SO if you're going to say, oh you have to completely rewrite everything and take it all to serverless, if you're going to do anything cloud, that adds a huge amount of risk onto the IT portfolio. So for an enterprise, or anyone who's actually been a successful company already, not the new startups, I'd say yes, brand new, you can start green, field's awesome, but if you have any kind of successful company already, you need to have a migration part. You need to understand it's appropriate to put these things, net news should start in cloud, great. What about the stuff that we've already got that's debugged, how do I get that to talk to cloud and how do I not end up with a bifurcated organization where I've got this legacy stuff that sits in the cupboard which no-one want to touch and play with and I have everyone doing all the new shiny stuff over here and then I end up killing my business because I have no migration part. >> And one final thing and then we got to go wrap up and get started for the day. I want to see more on the net new work loads because I think that is going to be a key part. The application developers are going to be where the power source is. New breeded developer, classic IT experts emerging, changing to devops and kind of a new community, open source community kind of personas them all evolving. So development, of our environment changing with developer persona, IT experts are changing to devops and the role of open source communities, I want to see more of that. At the end of the day, I want to see how Amazon thinks and how their customers are working with their data. Because if they have that Heritage app or legacy or an edge or wherever, the data is going to be a critical design component for the next generation. So that's what I'm looking for, what's going on with the data and trying to survive the slew of announcements. >> Big data, big topics and we have 40 000 of our best friends here to share their knowledge with you. Well, we're not going to have all of them, but we're going to have a lot. Wall-to-wall coverage here, AWS re:Invent kicks off in just a few moments, you are watching The Cube live from Las Vegas. 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>> Live from Washington D.C. It's theCUBE, covering the AWS Public Sector Summit 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, and its eco-system partners. (upbeat music) >> Welcome back to the nation's capitol. I'm Stu Miniman and you're watching theCUBE's coverage of AWS Public Sector Summit 2018. Joining me for the wrap-up of day one, John Furrier, Dave Vellante. So John, thanks for bringing us down. So you were here last year. We've interviewed Teresa Carlson a number of times at Reinvent, but we've got to start with you. Since you were here last year, watching this explode. I said, this reminds me of Reinvent three years ago, how big it is, 14,500 people, wow. >> Yeah, so you're right on. This is definitely a Reinvent kind of vibe, in a way to describe what happened with Amazon Reinvent, their annual conference which we were at the 2nd year, 2013, and have been every year. Reinvent got bigger every year, and just became more prominent, and the solutions scaled, the number of announcements, as we know Amazon today is packed, it's bigger than ever. The public sector market, which is defined as government, education, and global public sector countries like Bahrain and other countries, are really the target. They have unique requirements. So what's happening is that that market is being disrupted, and there's been similar moments in the public sector here in the United States, as well known. The fail of the website that Obama. You know, the health care sight was one. The government initiatives that have been going on. The government is not modern and people are frustrated. The IT workers are living in cages, they're strapped in. It's like, not good. The tooling's old, old client server, old vendors like Oracle and IBM and others that are trying to keep that business, and they're not modernizing. So, this modernization wave has hit the public sector across the board, and what's happening is they can actually build newer systems faster, and get lower cost, more efficiency, done faster. And this is disrupting not only their business model, but how they buy technology, the role of the supplier in that piece of the equation, and also just overall faster innovation. So, this is driving it. The shocker of all of it is the security conversation has been up leveled, meaning it's not a real issue. Certainly the security is a real issue, but in terms of a barrier that stops everything, that's not the case anymore. The CIA is really the most notable that came on and said the worst day in cloud security is better than anything we got working today. So that's a really interesting thing and the Department of Defense Jedi project is billions of dollars that would have gone to say, an Oracle, IBM, and all the incumbents, or, beltway bandits, as they've been called. Those days are over. So that to me is a really exciting thing for the country. But, Amazon is running the tables too. So again, this year, more of the same, bigger. Big agencies. Small partners and big, all riding the wave of growth. And, it's a new operating model, and again, we'll predict it here in theCUBE, as we always say, and then we'll be right again. This is going to be a special market for Amazon going forward. >> I think government market is definitely a microcosm of the overall marketplace as John said. It's very bureaucratic, they're slower to move, you got to regime change every four or eight years, so a lot of turnover. It's really hard to get. Okay, we're going to go with strategy, cause the strategy as they start stop, it's a near to mid term strategies are affected in the government. Obviously, there's a greater focus on security. Cloud addresses a lot of those. We certainly heard that from the CIA. I don't think you can talk about cloud and federal, without talking about that milestone CIA deal. That really was a watershed moment. It was a wake up call to the old guard. IBM, as you might recall, tried to fight the government, because the CIA awarded the contract to Amazon. IBM lost that case, they were eviscerated by the judge. It forced IBM to go out and pay two billion dollars for software. It was years later that Oracle really got in. So, Amazon, to an earlier guest's point, has a huge lead. The estimate was five to 10 years, I heard, over some of the legacy suppliers. Interesting, not sure exactly where Microsoft fits in there. Stu, I'd love to get your thoughts. The thing about cloud that we've, John, you talk about being right, for years, we've talked about the economics of cloud, the scale of cloud, the marginal economics, looking much more like software. That's clearly been to Amazon's advantage. And, they're mopping the floor with guys who can't keep pace. And so, that's played out in a big way, and this seems to be a winner take all market. Or, a few companies take all market. >> Yeah, the thing that I actually wanted to comment on that's really interesting to dig in here, is if you talk about application modernization. Yes, it is super challenging, and it's not happening overnight, but, have heard universities, non profits, they're moving. It's not just mobility, moving to the web, but talking about how they are decoupling and creating cloud native microservices environments. So, was talking to a large, government healthcare organization that was super excited to show me how he was going to take his really old application, and start pulling together services at a time. And, he's like, I've got 130 services. And here's how I'll stick a router in here and I'll start pulling them off to the cloud. Talked to a big university and said, how are they going from, my data center, which I'm out of power, I'm out of capacity. I'm going to use the VMWare thing, but over time, I'm moving to containers, I'm moving to serverless. That modernization, we know it's not moving all of it to the public cloud, but that migration is happening. It is challenging and as I've said many times in many of these Amazon shows, Dave and John, it's the companies that come here. They're the ones that are trying cool stuff. They're are able to play in some of these environments and they make progress. So, the thing that really excites me too, is when you hear government agencies that are doing innovative, cool things. It's like, how do I leverage my data and give back to the communities I serve. Help charities, help our communities, and do it in cost effective ways. >> Stu, I got to say, Dave, Theresa Carlson just came by theCUBE, we gave her a wave. She's the CEO of Public Sector, as I call her, she's the chief, she's in charge. Andy Jackson's the CEO of AWS, but again, public sector's almost its own little pocket of AWS. Her leadership, I think, is a real driving force of why it was successful so fast. Theresa Carleson is hard charging, she knows the government game. She's super nice, but she can fight. And she motivates her team. But she listens to the customers, and she takes advantage of that Amazon vibe, which is solve a problem, lower prices, make things go faster, that's the flywheel of the culture. And she brings it to a whole nother level. She's brought together a group of people that are succeeding with her. She leans on her partners, so partners are making money. She's bringing in cloud native kind of culture. I mean, CrowdStrike, you can't get any better than seeing guys like CrowdStrike raise 200 million dollars, Dave, today announced, worth over three billion dollars, because they built their system to work for cloud scale. CloudChecker, another company. Purpose built for the cloud and is extremely successful because they're not trying to retrofit an enterprise technology and make it cloudified. They actually built it for the cloud. This, to me, is a signal of what has to happen on successful deployments, from a customer standpoint. And I think that's what attracting the customers and they will change their operations 'cause the benefits are multifold and they're pretty big. Financially, operationally, culturally, it's disruptive. So I think that's a key point. >> Yeah, and I think again, this a microcosm of the larger AWS, which is a microcosm of the larger Amazon, but, some of the things we heard today, some of the benchmarks and milestones from Theresa on the keynote. 60 consultancies that she put up on the slide, 200 ISVs ans SAAS companies, 950 third-party software providers, this is all GovCloud. And then Aurora now in GovCloud, which is, you know, you see here, it lags. >> Database. >> Amazon and Specter, you've heard a lot about database. Amazon and Specter, which manages security configurations. We heard about the intent to go forward with the VMWare partnership, the VMWare cloud in GovCloud. So, a little bit behind where you see the Amazon web services in commercial. But, taking basically the same strategy as John said. The requirements are different. I also think, Stu and John, it's important to point out just the progress of AWS. We're talking about tracking to 22 billion dollars this year. They're growing still at 15 percent, that massive number. 26 percent operating income. Their operating income is growing at 54 percent a year. So, just to compare Amazon web services to other so called infrastructure providers, HPE's operating income is eight percent, IBM's is nine percent, VMWare, which is a software company, is at 19 percent, Amazon's at 26 percent. It's Cisco level of profitability. Only companies like Oracle and Microsoft are showing better operating income. This is that marginal economics, that we've talked about for years. And Amazon is crushing it, just in terms of the economic model. >> Yeah, and they bring in the public sector. Can you imagine that disruption for that incumbent mindset of these government kind of agencies that have been the frog in boiling water for so many years around IT. It's like Boom, what a wake up call. If you know IT, you know what it's like. Older tools, huge budget cycles, massive amounts of technology trends in terms of time to value. I mean, Stu, you've seen this buoy before. >> Yeah, absolutely, and it's interesting. Some of the things we heard is there's challenge in the government sometimes, moving from capex to opex. The way that government is used to buying is they buy out of the GSA catalog, they are making that move. We actually had on the federal CTO for Cohesity, came from the GSA, and he said we're making progress as an industry on this. Dave, you mentioned a whole lot of stats here. I mean, year after year, Q1 Amazon was up 49 percent revenue growth. So, you know, you always hear on the news, it's like, oh well, market share is shifting. Amazon is still growing at such a phenomenal pace, and in the GovCloud, one of the things I thought Kind of interesting that gets overlooked is the GovCloud is about five years, no it launched in August of 2011, so it's coming up on seven years. It's actually based out of the West Coast. They have GovCloud, US East is coming later this year. And we talked in the VMWare interview that we did today about why some of the lag and you need to go through the certification and you need to make sure there's extra security levels. Because, there's not only GovCloud, then they've got the secret region, the top secret region, so special things that we need to make sure that you're FedRAMP compliant and all these things. Amazon is hitting it hard, and definitely winning in this space. >> Yeah, and they have a competitive advantage, I mean, they're running the table, literally. Because no body else has secret cloud, right? So, Amazon, Google, others, they don't have what the spec requires on these big agencies, like the DOD. So, it's not a sole source deal. And we saw the press that President Trump had dinner with Safra Catz, the CEO of Oracle. And, that Amazon, that people are crying foul. Making a multicloud, multivendor kind of, be fair, you know fairness. Amazon's not asking for sole source, they're just saying we're responding to the bid. And, we're the only ones that actually can do it. You know, John Wood, the CEO of Telos, said it best on theCUBE today, Amazon is well down the road, five years advantage over any cloud, five years he said. >> There's no compression algorithm for experience, right? >> Right, right, but this is a real conundrum for the government buyers, the citizens, and the vendors. So, typically, let's face it, technology, IBM, HPE, Oracle, Dell, they can all pretty much do the same thing. Granted, they got software, Cisco, whatever. They got their different spaces, but head to head, they all pretty much can do what the RFP requires. But what you just pointed out John, is Amazon's the only one that can do a lot of this stuff, and so, when they say, okay let's make it fair, what they're really saying is, let's revert back to the mean. Is that the right thing for the citizens? That's the kind of question that's on the table now. As a citizen, do you want the government pushing the envelope... >> That's what he said from CrowdStrike, why go backwards? >> Right, right, but that's essentially what the old guard is saying. Come back to us, make it fair, is that unfair? >> You're too successful, let the competition catch up, so it can be fair. No, they've got to match up the value proposition. And that fundamentally is going to put the feet to fire of government and it's going to be a real critical tell sign on how much teeth to the mission that the government modernization plan is. If that mission to be modernizing government has teeth, they will stay in the course. Now, if they have the way to catch up, that's great. I can already hear it on Twitter, John, you don't really know what you're talking about. Microsoft's right there. Okay, you can say you're doing cloud, but as they teach you in business school, there's diseconomies of scale, to try to match a trajectory of an experienced cloud vendor. Stu, you just mentioned that, let's explore that. If I want to match Amazon's years of experience, I can say I'm up there with all these services, but you can't just match that overnight. There's diseconomies of scale, reverse proxies, technical debt, all kinds of stuff. So, Microsoft, although looking good on paper, is under serious pressure and those diseconomies of scales creates more risk. That more risk is more downtime. They just saw 11 hours of downtime on Microsoft Azure in Europe, 11 hours. That's massive, it's not like, oh, something just happened for a day. >> Here's the behind the scenes narrative that you hear from certain factions. Is, hey, we hire people, let's say I'm talkin' about Microsoft, we hire people out of Amazon too, we know where they're at. We think we've narrowed that lead down to six months. You and I have both heard that. When you talk to people on the other side of the table, it's like, no way, there's no way. We're movin' faster, in fact, our lead is extended. So, the proof is in the pudding. In the results that you see in the marketplace. >> Well, and just to build on that, the customers. Amazon has the customers, you talk to anybody that's in these agencies, you know, like any industry, they're all moving around. Not only the federal, but, I had a great interview with Nutanix this morning, he said this was the best collection of state and local government that I ever had. It's like I got to meet all my customers in person last year when they came here. So, the fed kind of sets the bar, and then state, local, education, they all learn there. So, as you said, John, Theresa and her team have really built a flywheel of customers, and those customers, they understand the product. They're going deeper on that. >> But look, Microsoft has success where it has a software state. Clearly there are a lot of Microsoft customers in the government, and they're going to do very well there. But it's really different. We're talkin' about the inventor, essentially, of infrastructure as a service in Public Cloud and Amazon with a clean sheet of paper. >> Microsoft, Google and the others, they have to catch up. So, really if you look at, let's compare and contrast. Amazon, first mover, they did the heavy lifting up front. They win the CIA deal three, four years ago. Now they're going to win the DOD deal and more. So, they've got the boiler plate, and they've got scale, economies of scale. Microsoft's got to catch up, so, they've got diseconomies of scale. Google is kind of backing out, we heard. Some Google employees revolting cause they don't want to work on these AI projects for drones or what not. But, Google's approach is not tryin' to match Amazon speed for speed, they're thing is they have leverage. Their Android, their security, the data. So, Google's staying much more pragmatic. And they're humble, they're saying, look, we're not tryin' to match Amazon. But we're going to have a badass cloud from a Google perspective. Microsoft hasn't yet said that, they just try to level up. I think if Microsoft takes that approach, they will do well. >> Well, you got to give Microsoft a lot of credit, obviously for the transformation that's occurred. Again it's still tied to the company's software estate, in my view anyway. >> All right Stu, what's your impression, what's your take? >> So, John, like every Amazon show I've been to, I'm impressed, it set a high bar. We go to a lot of shows and not only are there more people here, but the quality of people, the energy, the passion, the discussion of innovation and change, is just super impressive. >> You and I cover cloud data pretty deep. We go to all the shows, obviously the Lennox Foundation and Amazon Reinvent, and others. Does the Public Sector have that vibe in your opinion? What's your sense of it? >> Oh, yeah, no, I've already had a couple of conversations about Kubernetes and Lambda, you know, more serverless conversations at this show than almost any show I go to, other than probably KubeCon or the Serverless conf. So, no, advanced users, these are not the ones, a couple of years ago, oh I'm checking what this is. No, no, no, they're in, they're deep, they're using. >> Yeah, I notice also, near the press room, they had the certification stickers, now levels of certifications. So, they're just movin' the ball down the field at Amazon. Dave, I want to go to you and ask you what your impression is. Obviously, you know, we've done shows like HPE Reinvent, which we didn't do this year. That's goin' down its own path. We've got other shows. >> HPE Discover you mean. >> What did I say? >> You said Reinvent. >> Okay, every year they break. >> There's two ends of the spectrum. >> You know, there's is going to try to transform. What's your take of this show, Public Sector? What's your view? >> Well, first of all, it's packed. And, the ecosystem here is really robust. I mean, you see the consultancies, you see every technology vendor, I mean, it's quite amazing. They got to figure out the logistics, right? I've never seen a line so long. The line to get into registration was longer than Disney lines this morning. I mean, really, it was amazing. >> It's a Disneyland for Public Sector. >> It really is, and people are excited here. I think you were touching upon it before. They've sort of been hit with this bureaucratic, you know, cemented infrastructure. And now, it's like they're takin' the gloves off and they're really excited. >> Stu and Dave, I really got to say, I'm not a big federal person, over the years in my career but my general impression over the past couple years, diggin' in here, is that most of the people in the agency want to do a good job. I saw that last year, it's like, these are real innovators. And finally they can break away, right, and do some real, good. Not do shadow IT, do it legit with a cloud. So, good stuff. Guys, thanks for commentating, Stu? >> Yeah, so let me bring it on home. I just want to say, this goes up in a podcast, if you go to your favorite podcast player and look for theCUBE Insights, you'll find this as well as the key analysis from our team from all of the shows. Of course, as always, go to theCube dot net to get all the research. If you want the exclusive, more detail on Theresa Carlson, just search John Ferrier in Forbes and you'll find that article. This is the end of Day One of two days live coverage from AWS Public Sector. Of course, theCUBE dot net, come find us, we've got stickers if you're at the show. For Dave Vellante, John Furrier, I'm Stu Miniman. And as always, thanks so much for watching theCUBE. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Juan, Puerto Rico it's theCUBE! Covering Blockchain Unbound. Brought to you by Blockchain Industries. (Latin music) >> Welcome back everyone, this is theCUBE, exclusive coverage of Puerto Rico covering Blockchain Unbound's global conference where token economics meets the real world global society, Blockchain decentralized applications, and of course, cryptocurrency all kind of coming together. You got investors, you got developers, you got billionaires and millionaires, and you got the capital markets all rolled up into one. My next guest is Andrew Prell, founder and CEO of Convergence, entrepreneur, visionary, experienced entrepreneur, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you very much for having me! >> So you're doing some really radical, not radical, progressive, I mean radical sounds (mumbles) Awesome things, you're re-imagining gaming. >> Andrew: Correct. >> Got a great team of people who have seen that movie before, literally, seen the entertainment side of gaming, the pro gaming side to the tactical gaming side, take a minute to explain what you guys are doin' that's super fascinating, how it works in this new era. >> So, we're re-imagining the entire game space, when I say that I'm talking the consumer side, that's cell phones all the way through consoles and PCs, out to the out-of-home entertainment side, which is arcades, location-based entertainment and full-blown theme parks, and marrying them all together with one backbone platform that allows all of the devices to interact with each other in the same game space. So you can be in a $300,000 simulator at Disneyland, workin' with guys on cell phones against guys in their head-mounted displays. Any of that, they all work together in one game space. >> So basically the world is the device, every device. >> Yes. >> On the network, IP connection or global, player, console, screen, and you're connecting them all together. Hence Convergence. >> Right, we're giving every device in the eco-system it's proper place and it's proper prestige. 'Cause if you've got a $5,000 gaming rig, you don't think a guy with a $800 cell phone should be at the exact same level, but maybe 10 other cell phones could be a equal match to you. >> Take me through a use case of how you're going to converge this all together. So you talk to some purists out there, "I've got a 4K monitor, I don't want this cell phone guy "comin' in here, he's got lag, "I got all kinds of gaming issues." Does that go away, how does it all work? >> What we're havin' to do is contextual-based interfaces, meaning that your roles and responsibilities in the game space is dependent on the devices that you bring in. Because virtual reality is not just the head-mounted display, it's all the new gear coming out with the tactile feedback, the bodysuits, the gloves, the boots, the treadmills, all of that. All of that, your roles and responsibilities in each game space is dependent on the device that you enter with. >> So I was at Sundance this year and I had a theme, I did a panel I put together called The New Creative. And if you look at all the new artists out there, they want to break down the elite gatekeepers, right? I mean the virtual-reality and augmented-reality world is colliding with film, filmmakers. You got YouTubers out there with a million, 10 million subscribers, built-in audiences, this new technology coming out. A lot of people are bringing storytelling, filmmaking, and it's just really in the early stages right now. People love the characters, but you start to see the new kind of format. Does this play into your world? I can imagine that, if you're thinking to be disruptive in the way you're thinking, new games're going to emerge so it's not thinking about the old games, it's thinking about potentially new games. >> Andrew: Correct. >> How do you view that, is that somethin' that you see? What's your reaction to that trend of this new, multifaceted VR, AR. >> We see that everybody is going to get to play together, cross every device, the developers are going to get rewarded for creating content, people are going to be rewarded for creating things inside of the games, and the players are going to get rewarded for doing all the top things, and getting to the top levels of all the games, and we're going to reward them through our cryptocurrency. >> We're in Puerto Rico obviously, this world's goin' to another level, Brock Pierce, his community, the Blockchain community, they're comin' to Puerto Rico, tax incentives, the government's here opening up their arms, But you're starting to see it go to the next level. These early industries you got the entrepreneurs and the promoters. The promoters promote the entrepreneurs, there's a lot of love goin' back and forth. But then they hit that threshold, the capital markets come in, you know, you start to see the opportunities, but the money start flowing in. It's kind of happening now, so it's goin' the next level. In your opinion, token economics; now that there's so much money flowin' in, now that people see that Blockchain's legit, now that people see that this is actually a new model, not everybody, but majority-a' people in the industry are all noddin' their heads, "Okay, Blockchain's "got some potential, token economics is a legit thing, "it's disrupting capital structures, "it's disrupting funding." How is it disrupting the gaming business? Can you share your opinion on that? >> People don't understand the overall impact. We didn't understand the overall impact. A lot of the investors coming in still don't fully understand the overall impact. I was in a discussion the other day, I'd written some articles in Medium about token economics, and about the virtuous circle of a token-based investment fund. Meaning everything that it invests, all the fees, everything coming out of it, is all based on a token inside of an ecosystem. We're about to head to GDC, Game Developers Conference, just like Kevin Bachus did for the Xbox, we're going out there to license and buy up all the content that we can through our tokens. Now the cool thing here, the thing that just makes the investment, the cash funds dead, is a dollar bill can not change in value other than go down over time slightly. So we'll just say the dollar bill doesn't change in value. If I was Kevin Bachus back when the Xbox was coming out, and I went and invested a million dollars in a hundred companies in crypto, say the Xbox is crypto, and you could only get to those games through the token, which is what we're doing, and I found Halo, which, a hundred-million people bought the Xbox just because of Halo, then what that does for a cash fund is everybody pats each other on the back because you've got one game that's goin' to exit and that's kind of cool, but that's it. Doesn't affect the rest of the economy other than a nice network effect. Halo gets a hundred million users, the next guy might get five million of those or 10 million of those, that's a nice small impact. When you do it with crypto, and you start out with a penny token, that you put a million dollars into a hundred companies, and you find that Halo, and it explodes, your penny token might go to 10 cents. So what you just did was you just 10-exed what you invested into Halo. >> It's a futures contract on gaming. >> Well. >> Kind of. >> I'm not going to talk to that point. (laughs) We're going to just talk about this example, is you 10-exed, you went from a million to 10 million in Halo, but you also 10-exed every single investment you just did, and you 10-exed every person in that ecosystem that's involved in it, that's getting paid in it. Your suppliers, your publishers, your media. >> John: Everyone gets paid. >> Everybody get 10-exed because you found Halo. So that makes this whole ubiquitous ecosystem involved with everybody else, meaning I get rewarded if you get rewarded, so everybody helps everybody else. >> That is exactly the model of token economics. >> Exactly, it explodes because it's so powerful. >> This is interesting, the inefficiencies of the process that you pointed out, the old way, is eliminated by the new model. Hence, the people who pick up the game are the participants who shorten that efficiencies. >> I had a guy the other guy ask me, "you're not asking for enough money with your ICO, "'cause you've got to go invest in all these companies." And I was like, "you don't understand token economics!". All I have to do is unlock the power of my token and invest with that, and I've already proven, back in 2015 we proved that a lot of the game developers would take our token without it even having a secondary market. >> You haven't even gone to a whole 'nother dimension that you don't even have to go to now, but that's future, is the role of consensus in these communities really also do the filtering at many levels. >> Andrew: 100%! >> If you look at what Activision got their ass handed to them, all you got to do is look at the Reddit threads. The whole gaming thing is, no one wants to see games go corporate. Because they had to force a business model, this is a huge issue, people are losing their shirts. "Oh, great creative studio, they sold out, game's over". The audience flocks away, why? 'Cause they have no incentive. Do you agree? >> I agree a 100%, but there's a lot of professional investors that don't. So we broke up the sum of our funds that we're investing into all these startups, we broke it up into 10 funds, and we're going to turn it into a game. We're going to give one of the funds purely to our token holders, and do a consensus model, and let them vote on what they think we should, what should be in our network. And they're going to go up against nine other investors. I threw down the gauntlet. Whoever gets best wins the extra bonuses. >> So are you raising money now or did you raise the token sale already? >> We're closing out our private presale, and because of Blockchain Unbound I doubt we'll actually hit the open market with the ICO, so people will have to go to our developers that we invest in, and get the tokens through them somehow. >> Good success year, huh? Blockchain Unbound been a good success for you? >> Oh yeah, Brock Pierce is on board, been pushin' behind us since Cayman. Him and Crystal both fully supported us and we're havin' awesome. >> What's your advice to people out there, scratchin' their heads, "Andrew, give me "the 101 on token economics, what's the bottom line, "what do I need to know about, where do I get started, "what do I do?". >> Once you get your token actually, say, authenticated, realized, everything's transparent, and it gets on that secondary market, it's better to use that to invest in anything you need to invest in. Get everybody incentivized around your token. All your employees, all your vendors, everybody incentivized around that token, it's a 1000% more powerful than a dollar, 'cause a dollar doesn't go up in value. Your token can go up and down, but trends up, and as soon as you find just one spark that blows up, everybody, all boats rise equally. It's awesome. >> All right, Andrew Prell, CEO, reimagining gaming. Token economics is a disruptive force. There's math involved, every company will need a a chief economic officer, that'll be a new title, we'll be certainly seein' that out. Thanks for comin' on theCUBE, 'preciate it. I'm John Furrier, you're watchin theCUBE. Exclusive coverage in Puerto Rico for Blockchain Unbound. Part of our two-day wall-to-wall coverage, thanks for watchin', we'll be back with more after this short break.

(upbeat electronic music) >> Everyone, welcome to our special Mobile World Congress 2017 coverage. I'm John Furrier here in theCUBE for two days of wall-to-wall coverage. Monday and Tuesday, February 27th and 28th, and we have on the phone right now, Lynn Comp, who's the Senior Director of the Network Platforms Group within Intel, part of the team doing the whole network transformation. The big announcements that went out prior to Mobile World Congress and hitting the ground on Monday and Tuesday of all next week in Barcelona. Lynn, great to have you on the phone. Thanks for taking the time to walk through some of the big announcements. >> Lynn: Thanks, John, for having us. It's a really exciting Mobile World Congress. We're seeing more and more of the promise of the next generation networks starting to take solution form from ingredient form a couple years ago, so it's a great, great time to be in this business. >> So 5G is happening now. You're seeing it in the network and the cloud and at the client, that you guys use the word "client" but essentially, it's the people with their smartphones and devices, wearables, AIs, and now the client is now cars, and flying drones and potentially, whatever else is connected to the Internet as an Internet of things. This has been a really big moment and I think I want to take some time to kind of unpack with you some of the complexities and kind of what's going on under the hood because 4G to 5G is a huge step up in the announcement and capabilities, and it's not just another device. There's really unique intellectual property involved, there's more power, there's a market leadership in the ecosystem, and really is a new way for service providers to achieve profitability, and get those products that are trying to connect, that need more power, more bandwidth, more capabilities. Can you take a minute just to talk about the key announcements impacting Mobile World Congress from Intel's perspective this week in your area? >> Lynn: Yeah, so we had a group of announcements that came out. Everything from solutions labs where operators are invited in to work with Nokia and Intel starting out to start working through what does it mean to try and manage a network that includes unlicensed and licensed spectrum and all these different usage models, very different model for them, to Ericsson, an initiative with GE and Honeywell and Intel, that is in Innovator's Initiative, where companies are invited to come in in the ecosystem. An early start working through what does it mean to have this kind of network capability? If you think what happened, 2G, 3G, to 4G, you start looking at the iPhone, been around for 10 years, and you've seen how the uses have changed, and how application developers have come up with completely new ways of doing things, like, who would have thought about crowdsourcing traffic patterns for driving directions? We all wanted it years ago, but it was just recently that we were able to have that on a smartphone. They're trying to unleash that with pretty unique companies. I mean, GE and Honeywell, UC Berkeley, you wouldn't necessarily think of them as being first on innovating new usage models for a wireless network, but with something like 5G, with all of these diverse use cases, you end up with a completely different ecosystem, really wanting to come in early and take advantage of the potential that's there. >> Lynn, talk about this end-to-end store because one of the things that got hidden in all the news, and certainly SiliconANGLE covered it, as well as, there was a great article in Fortune about it, but kind of talk about more of the 5G versus Qualcomm, that was kind of the big story that, the battle of the chips, if you will, and the big 5G angle there, but there's more to it and one thing that caught my attention was this end-to-end architecture, and it wasn't just Intel. You guys are a big part of that as an ingredient, but it's not just Intel, and what does that mean, end-to-end, 'cause I can see the wireless pieces and overlaying connecting devices, but where's the end-to-end fit in? Can you give some color on that? >> Lynn: Absolutely. You know what's really fascinating is you've got Intel and we've been in the cloud and heard of the genesis of what would become the consumer and the enterprise cloud from the very start, and so what we've been doing in working in that end-to-end arena is taking things like virtualization, which has allowed these service providers and enterprises to slice up compute resources and instead of having something that's completely locked and dedicated on one workload, they can create slices of different applications that all sit on the same hardware and share it, and so if you look, years ago, many of the service providers, cloud and enterprise, they were looking at utilization rights as maybe 15% of the compute power of a server, and now, a lot of them are aiming for 75 to 85% utilization, and that's just a crazy amount of (mumbles) so bringing that to this market that in traditional, we had single purpose boxes, there's various detections for one thing, but that creates a business challenge if you need to do more than one thing, so really what we're showing, for example, at Mobile World Congress, it's something that we call FlexRAN, and it's an example of how to run a radio area network on a standard server on the technology, and it does implement that network slicing. Its's very similar to the virtualization and the compute slicing, but taking advantage of it to use different bandwidths and different rates for different scenarios, whether IoT or smartphones, or even connected cars. >> So I got to ask you about, the big question I get is, first of all, thanks for that, but the big question I get is, this isn't turning into an app show, we're Mobile World Congress, and apps are everything from cars to just phone apps to network apps, et cetera, and the question that everyone's asking is, we need more bandwidth, and certainly, 5G addresses that, but the service providers are saying, "Do we really need all that power? And "When is it coming?" "What's the timing of all this?" So, specific question to you is, Lynn, is what is Intel doing to accelerate the network transformation for the service providers to get 5G ready, 'cause that seems to be the main theme as the orientation of where the progress bar is relative to is it ready for primetime, is it here and now, is it out in the future, is this kind of a pre-announcement, so there's kind of some confusion. Clarify that up. Where's the progress bar and how is Intel accelerating network transformation for folks in the service provider vis-a-vis 5G-ready? >> Lynn: So there's a couple things. So let me start with the accelerating piece because it also relates to the end-to-end piece. When you look at the way that networks have been constructed all the way, end-to-end, it has traditionally been a very, very limited set of solution providers, and they tend to survive pretty granular, pretty high-granular functions, so the appliance, the full appliance, software, hardware, everything, and I would look at some of the smartphones up until you could put new applications on it, as appliances, it did voice, and so, we have this service provider begging us for many years, "Give us an ecosystem that looks like server and PC. "I want a building block ecosystem. "I want to be able to take advantage of fast and free wires "in software and hardware. "I need people to come innovate, "like they go innovate on Amazon," and so building an ecosystem, so Intel Network Builders is something that was started about three years ago, and we had, oh, half dozen to maybe 12 different vendors who were part of it, mostly software vendors. Since then, we have 250-plus number and they range from service providers like GT and Telefonica all the way to the hardware vendors like Cisco and Ericsson, and then the software vendors that you would expect. So that's one thing that we've been really working, for a few years now, on giving these operators building block approaches, supporting them in open source. We had a big announcement from AT&T, talking about how they're putting about seven millions lines of code into the Linux Foundation, and its code has been deployed in their network already, so pretty big departure from normal practice, and then today, we had an announcement that came out, where not only did AT&T and Bell Canada and Orange in that community. Now we've got China Mobile, China Telecom, and a project called Open-O, also joining forces. If you were to map out the topics for these operators, we've got almost all of the top ten. They are joining this project to completely change the way that they run their networks, and that translates into the kind of innovation, the kind of applications that consumers love, that they're already getting out of the cloud, now they can begin to get that piece of innovation and creativity in the network as well. So the building block approach seems to be your strategy for the ecosystem. What's the challenge to keep that rolling and cohesive? How are you guys going to foster that growth on the ecosystem? You guys going to be doing a lot of joint marketing, funding, projects, and (chuckles) how are you going to foster that continuing growth? >> Lynn: Well there's a couple, it's such an opportunity-rich environment right now. Even things that you would assume would be normal and kind of standard practice, like standardized benchmarking, because you want apples-to-apples performance comparison. Well that's something that this industry really hasn't had. We've done very conceptualized testing, so we're working with the operators in a project called OPNSG to make sure that the operators have a uniform way, even if it's synthetic benchmark, but they at least understand this synthetic benchmark has this kind of performance, so they start really being able to translate and have the vendors do comparisons on paper, and they can actually do better comparisons without having to do six months of testing, so that's a really big deal. The other thing that I do want to also say about 5G is we're in a pre-standards world right now. ITU and 3GPP will have standards dropped in 2018 and 2020 is when it will be final, but every time that you're looking at a new wireless standard, there's a lot of pretrials that are happening, and that's because you want to test before you state everything has to work a specific way, so there was a trial just announced in December, with Erisson, AT&T in Austin, Texas in the Intel offices, and so if you happen to be in that office, you're starting to be able to experiment with what you could possibly get out of 5G. You'll see more of that with the Olympics in 2018 and 2020, where you've got, Japan and Korea have said we're going to have 5G at those Olympics. >> So I got to ask you some of the questions that we are going to have some guests on here in theCUBE in the Palo Alto coverage around NFV, network function virtualization, plays right into the software-defined networking virtualization world, so why is NFV and SDN so vital to the network transformation? Why now and what's happening in those two areas, and what's the enabler? >> Lynn: The enabler really started about 10 years ago, the real inspiration for it, when we were all in a world of packet processing engines and network processors, and we had some people in our research labs that realized that a lot of the efficiency in doing packet processing quickly came from parallelism, and we knew there were about two or three years to wait, but that was when multi-core came out, and so this thing called data plane development kit was born. We've referred to it as DPDK. It's now an industry organization, not an Intel invention anymore. The industry's starting to foster it. Now is really when the operators realized, "I can run a network on a general purpose processor." (coughs) Excuse me, so they can use cores for running operating systems and applications, of course, they always do that for compute cores, but they can also use the compute cores for passing packets back and forth. The line rates that we're getting are astonishing. 160 gigabits per second, which at the time, we were getting six million packets per second. Very unimpressive 10 years ago, but now, for many of those applications, we're at line rate, so that allows you to then separate the hardware and the software, which is where virtualization comes in, and when you do that, you aren't actually embedding software and hardware together in creating an appliance that, if you needed to do a software update, you might as well update the hardware, too, 'cause there's absolutely no new software load that can happen unless you're in an environment with virtualization or something like containers. So that's why NFV, network function virtualization is important. Gives the operator the ability to use general purpose processors for more than one thing, and have the ability to have future proofing of workloads where a new application or a new use becomes really popular, you don't have to issue new hardware, they just need to spin up the new virtual machine and be able to put function in it. >> So that, I got-- >> Lynn: If you went back and, we were talking about 5G and all of this new way of managing the network, now management in orchestration, it's really important but SDN is also really critical, both for cloud and for comm, because it gives you one map of the connections on the network, so you know what is connected where, and it gives you the ability to remotely change how the servers or how the hardware is connected together. If you were going to ask the CIO, "What's your biggest problem today?" they would tell you that it's almost impossible for them to be able to spin up a fully functional, new application that meets all the security protocols because they don't have a network map of everything that's connected to everything. They don't really have an easy way to be able to issue a command and then have all of the reconfigurations happen. A lot of the information's embedded in router tables. >> Yeah. >> Lynn: So it makes it very, very hard to take advantage of a really complicated network connection map, and be agile. That's where SDN comes in. It just kind of like a command control center, whereas NFV gives them the ability to have agility and spin up new functions very quickly. >> Yeah, and certainly that's where the good security part of the action is. Lynn, I want to get your final thoughts on the final question is this Mobile World Congress, it really encapsulates years and years in the industry of kind of a tipping point, and this is kind of my observation, and I want to get your thoughts on this and reaction to it, is the telcos and the service providers are finally at a moment where there's been so much pressure on the business model. We heard this, you can go on back many, many years ago, "Oh, over the top, " and you're starting to see more and more pressure. This seems to be the year that people have a focus on seeing a straight and narrow set of solutions, building blocks and a ecosystem that poised to go to the next level, where there can be a business model that actually can scale, whether it's scaling the edge, or having the core of the network work well, and up and down the stack. Can you talk about the key challenges that these service providers have to do to address that key profitability equation that being a sustainable entity rather than being the pipes? >> Lynn: Well it comes down to being able to respond to the needs of the user. I will refer to a couple demos that we have in the data center section of our booth, and one of them is so impressive to China Telecom that have put together on complete commercial off-the-shelf hardware that a cloud vendor might use. A demo that shows 4K video running from a virtualized, fixed wireline connection, so one of the cable kind of usage. Now 4K video goes over a virtualized environment from a cable-like environment, to what we call virtual INF, and that's the way that you get different messages passed between different kinds of systems. So INF is wireless, so they've got 4K video from cable out to a wireless capability, running in a virtualized environment at performance in hardware that can be used in the cloud, it could be used in communication service providers 'cause it's general purpose. That kind of capability gives a company like China Telecom the flexibility they need, so with 5G, it's the usage model for 5G that's most important. Turns out to be fixed wireless, because it's so expensive for them to deploy in fiber, well, they have the ability to do it and they can spin it up, maybe not in real time, but certainly, it's not going to take a three-month rollout. >> Yes, and-- >> Lynn: So hopefully, that gives you one example. >> Well that's great enablement 'cause in a lot of execution, well, I thought it gave me one more idea for a question, so since I have my final, final question for you is, what are you most excited about 'cause you sounded super excited with that demo. What other exciting things are happening in the Intel demo area from Intel that's exciting for you, that you could share with the folks listening and watching? >> Lynn: So, I used to never be a believer in augmented reality. (John chuckling) I thought, who's going to walk around with goggles, it's just silly, (coughs) it seemed to me like a toy and maybe I shouldn't admit that on a radio show but I became a believer, and I started to really understand how powerful it could be when Pokemon Go took over all the world in over the summer, to this, an immersive experience, and it's sort of reality, but you're interacting with a brand, or in the booth, we have a really cool virtual reality demo and it was with Nokia next and it's showing 5G network transformation. The thing about virtual reality, we have to really have low latency for it to feel real, quote-unquote, and so, it harnesses the power that we can see just emerging with 5G, and then we get this really great immersive experience, so that, I think, is one that innovate how popular brands like Disney or Disney World or Disneyland, that immersive experience, so I think we're just starting to scratch the surface on the opportunities there. >> Lynn, thanks so much for spending the time. Know you got to go and run. Thanks so much for the commentary. We are low latency here inside theCUBE, bringing you all the action. It's a good title for a show, low latency. Really fast, bringing all the action. Lynn, thanks so much for sharing the color and congratulations on your success at Mobile World Congress and looking forward to getting more post-show, post-mortem after the event's over. Thanks for taking the time. We'll be back with more coverage of Mobile World Congress for a special CUBE live in studio in Palo Alto, covering all the action in Barcelona on Monday and Tuesday, 27th and 28th. I'm John Furrier. Wrap it with more after this short break, thanks for watching. (upbeat electronic music) (bright electronic music)