>>Welcome to this Q conversation. I'm Dave Nicholson. And today we are joined by Andrew ish and Chris Y Moran, both from Gentech. Andrew is the vice president of marketing. Chris John is the, uh, vice president of product engineering, gentlemen, welcome to the cube. >>Welcome David. Thanks for having us. Hey, >>David, thanks for having us on your show. >>Absolutely. Give us just, let's start out by, uh, giving us some background on, on Gentech. How would you describe to a relative coming over and asking you what you do for a living? What Genotech does? >>Well, I'll take a shot at that. I'm the marketing guy, David, but, uh, I think the best way to think of Genotech first and foremost is a software company. We, uh, we do a really good job of bringing together all of that physical security sensor network onto a platform. So people can make sense out of the data that comes from video surveillance, cameras, access control, reads, license plate recognition, cameras, and from a whole host of different sensors that can live out there in the world. Temperature, sensors, microwaves, all sorts of stuff. So we're a company that's really good at making sense of complex data from sensors. That's kind of, I think that's kind of what we >>Do and, and, and we focus specifically on like larger, complex, critical infrastructure type projects, whether they be airports, uh, large enterprise campuses and whatnot. So we're not necessarily your well known consumer type brand. >>So you mentioned physical, you mentioned physical security. Um, what about the intersection between physical security and, and cyber security who are, who are the folks that you work with directly as customers and where do they, where do they sit in that spectrum of cyber versus physical? >>So we predominantly work with physical security professionals and, uh, they typically are responsible for the security of a facility, a campus, a certain area. And we'll talk about security cameras. We'll talk about access control devices with card readers and, and, and locks, uh, intrusion detection, systems, fences, and whatnot. So anything that you would see that physically protects a facility. And, uh, what's actually quite interesting is that, you know, cybersecurity, we, we hear about cybersecurity and depressed all the time, right. And who's been hacked this week is typically like, uh, a headline that we're all like looking at, uh, we're looking for in the news. Um, so we actually do quite a lot of, I would say education work with the physical security professional as it pertains to the importance of cyber security in the physical security system, which in and of itself is an information system. Right. Um, so you don't wanna put a system in place to protect your facility that is full of cybersecurity holes because at that point, you know, your physical security systems becomes, uh, your weakest link in your security chain. Uh, the way I like to say it is, you know, there's no such thing as physical security versus cyber security, it's just security. Uh, really just the concept or a context of what threat vectors does this specific control or mechanism actually protects against >>Those seem to be words to live by, but are, are they aspirational? I mean, do you, do you see gaps today, uh, between the worlds of cyber and physical security? >>I mean, for sure, right? Like we, physical security evolved from a different part of the enterprise, uh, structure then did it or cyber security. So they, they come at things from a different angle. Um, so, you know, for a long time, the two worlds didn't really meet. Uh, but now what we're seeing, I would say in the last 10 years, Christian, about that, there's a huge convergence of cyber security with physical security. It, so information technology with operation technology really coming together quite tightly in the industry. And I think leading companies and sophisticated CISOs are really giving a big pitcher thought to what's going on across the organization, not just in cybersecurity. >>Yeah. I think we've come a long way from CCTV, which stands for closed circuit television, uh, which was typically like literally separated from the rest of the organization, often managed by the facilities, uh, part of any organization. Uh, and now we're seeing more and more organizations where this is converging together, but there's still ways to go, uh, to get this proper convergence in place. But, you know, we're getting there. >>How, how does Gentech approach its addressable market? Is this, is this a direct model? Uh, do you work with partners? What, what does that look like in your world? >>Well, we're a, we're a partner led company Gentech, you know, model on many friends is all about our partners. So we go to market through our integration channel. So we work with really great integrators all around the world. Um, and they bring together our software platform, which is usually forms the nucleus of sort of any O T security network. Uh, they bring that together with all sorts of other things, such as the sensor network, the cabling, all of that. It's a very complex multiplayer world. And also in that, you know, partnership ecosystem and Christian, this is more your world. We have to build deep integrations with all of these companies that build sensors, whether that's access, Bosch, Canon, uh, Hanoi, you know, we're, we're really working with them them. And of course with our storage and server partners >>Like Dell >>Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yeah. So we have, we have like hundreds of, I would say ecosystem partners, right? Camera manufacturers, uh, access control reader, controller manufacturers, intrusion detection, manufacturers, late LIDAR radar, you know, the list goes on and on and on. And, and basically we bring this all together. The system integrator really is going to pick best of breed based on a specific end customer's I would say requirements and then roll out the system. According >>That's very interesting, you know, at, at Silicon angle on the cube, um, we've initiated coverage of this subject of the question, does hardware still matter? And, and you know, of course we're, we're approaching that primarily from kind of the traditional it, uh, perspective, but you said at the outset, you you're a software company mm-hmm <affirmative>, but clearly correct me if I'm wrong, your software depends upon all of these hardware components and as they improve, I imagine you can do things that maybe you couldn't do before those improvements. The first thing that comes to mind is just camera resolution. Um, you know, sort of default today is 4k, uh, go back five years, 10 years. I imagine that some of the sophisticated things that you can do today weren't possible because the hardware was lagging. Is that, is that a, is that a fair assessment? >>Oh, that's a fair assessment. Just going back 20 years ago. Uh, just VGA resolution on a security camera was like out of this world resolution, uh, even more so if it was like full motion, 30 images per second. So you typically have like, probably even like three 20 by 2 44 images per second, like really lousy resolution, just from a resolution perspective, the, the imagery sensors have, have really increased in terms of what they can provide, but even more so is the horsepower of these devices. Mm-hmm, <affirmative> now it's not uncommon to have, uh, pretty, pretty powerful Silicon in those devices now that can actually run machine learning models and you can actually do computer vision and analytics straight into the device. Uh, as you know, in some of the initial years, you would actually run this on kind of racks of servers in this data center. >>Now you can actually distribute those workloads across on the edge. And what we're seeing is, you know, the power that the edge provides is us as a software company, we have the opportunity to actually bring our workloads where it makes most sense. And in some cases we'll actually also have a ground station kind of in between the sensors and potentially the cloud, uh, because the use case just, uh, calls for it. Uh, just looking from a, from a, from a video security perspective, you know, when you have hundreds or thousands of cameras on an airport, it's just not economical or not even feasible in some cases to bring all that footage to the cloud even more so when 99% of that footage is never watched by anybody. So what's the point. Uh, so you just wanna provide the clips that, that actually do matter to the cloud and for longer term retention, you also want to be able to have sometimes more resilient systems, right? So what happens if the cloud disconnects, you can stop the operations of that airport or stop that operations of that, of that prison, right? It needs to continue to operate and therefore you need higher levels of resiliency. So you do need that hardware. So it's really a question of what it calls for and having the right size type of hardware so that you don't overly complexify the installation, uh, and, and actually get the job done. Are >>You comparing airports to prisons >>Christian? Well, nowadays they're pretty much prepared <laugh>, >>But I mean, this is exactly it, David, but I mean, this payload, especially from the video surveillance, like the, the workload that's going through to the, these ground stations really demands flexible deployment, right? So like we think about it as edge to cloud and, uh, you know, that's, what's really getting us excited because it, it gives so much more flexibility to the, you know, the C I S O and security professionals in places like prisons, airports, also large scale retail and banking, and, uh, other places, >>Universities, the list goes on and on and on, and >>On the flexibility of deployment just becomes so much easier because these are lightweight, you usually word deploying on a Linux box and it can connect seamlessly with like large scale head end storage or directly to, uh, cloud providers. It's, it's really a sophisticated new way of looking at how you architect out these networks. >>You've just given, you've just given a textbook example of why, uh, folks in the it world have been talking about hybrid cloud for, for, for such a long time, and some have scoffed at the idea, but you just, you just present a perfect use case for that combination of leveraging cloud with, uh, on-premises hardware and tracking with hardware advances, um, uh, on, on the subject of camera resolution. I don't know if you've seen this meme, but there's a great one with the, the first deep field image from the, from the, I was gonna say humble, the James web space telescope, uh, in contrast with a security camera F photo, which is really blurry of someone in your driveway <laugh>, uh, which is, which is, uh, sort of funny. The reality though, is I've seen some of these latest generation security cameras, uh, you know, beyond 4k resolution. And it's amazing just, you know, the kind of detail that you can get into, but talk about what what's, what's exciting in your world. What's, what's Gentech doing, you know, over the next, uh, several quarters that's, uh, particularly interesting what's on the leading edge of your, of your world. >>Well, I think right now what's on the leading edges is being driven by our end users. So the, so the, the companies, the governments, the organizations that are implementing our software into these complex IOT networks, they wanna do more with that data, right? It's not just about, you know, monitoring surveillance. It's not just about opening and closing doors or reading license plates, but more and more we're seeing organizations taking this bigger picture view of the data that is generated in their organizations and how they can take value out of existing investments that they've made in sensor networks, uh, and to take greater insight into operations, whether that can be asset utilization, customer service efficiency, it becomes about way more than just, you know, either physical security or cyber security. It becomes really an enterprise shaping O T network. And to us, that is like a massive, massive opportunity, uh, in the, in the industry today. >>Yeah. >>Now you're you're you're oh, go ahead. I'm sorry, Christian, go ahead. Yeah, >>No, it's, it's, it's good. But, you know, going back to a comment that I mentioned earlier about how it was initially siloed and now, you know, we're kind of discovering this diamond in the rough, in terms of all these sensors that are out there, which a lot of organizations didn't even know existed or didn't even know they had. And how can you bring that on kind of across the organizations for non-security related applications? So that's kind of one very interesting kind of, uh, direction that we're, that we've been undergoing for the last few years, and then, you know, security, uh, and physical security for that matter often is kind of the bastard step child. Doesn't get all the budget and, you know, there's lots of opportunities for, to help them increase and improve their operations, uh, as, as Andrew pointed out and really help bringing them into the 21st century. >>Yeah. >>And you're, you're headquartered in Montreal, correct? >>Yes. >>Yeah. So, so the reason, the reason why that's interesting is because, um, and, you know, correct me if I'm, if I'm off base here, but, but you're sort of the bridge between north America and Europe. Uh, and, and, uh, and so you sit at that nexus where, uh, you probably have more of an awareness of, uh, trends in security, which overlap with issues of privacy. Yeah. Where Europe has led in a lot of cases. Um, some of those European like rules are coming to north America. Um, is there anything in your world that is particularly relevant or that concerns you about north America catching up, um, or, or do those worlds of privacy and security not overlap as much as I might think they do? >>Ah, thank you. Any >>Thoughts? >>Absolutely not. No, no. <laugh> joking aside. This is, this is, this is, >>Leave me hanging >><laugh>, uh, this is actually core to our DNA. And, and, and we, we often say out loud how, like Europe has really paved the way for a different way, uh, of, of looking at privacy from a security setting, right. And they're not mutually exclusive. Right. You can have high security all while protecting people's privacy. And it's all of a question of ensuring that, you know, how you kind of, I would say, uh, ethically, uh, use said technology and we can actually put some safeguards in it. So to minimize the likelihood of there being abuse, right? There's, there's something that we do, which we call the privacy protector, which, you know, for all intents and purposes, it's not that complex of an idea. It's, it's really the concept of you have security cameras in a public space or a more sensitive location. And you have your security guards that can actually watch that footage when nothing really happens. >>You, you want to protect people's privacy in these situations. Uh, however, you still want to be able to provide a view to the security guard so they can still make out that, you know, there there's actually people walking around or there's a fight that broke out. And in the likelihood that something did happen, then you can actually view the overall footage. So, and with, with the details that the cameras that you had, you know, the super high mega pixel cameras that you have will provide. So we blur the images of the individuals. We still keep the background. And once you have the proper authorization, and this is based on the governance of the organization, so it can be a four I principle where it could be the chief security officer with the chief privacy officer need to authorize this footage to be kind of UN blurred. And at that point you can UN blur the footage and provide it to law enforcement for the investigation, for example. >>Excellent. I've got Andrew, if you wanted, then I, then I'm. Well, so I, I've a, I have a final question for you. And this comes out of a game that, uh, some friends and I, some friends of mine and I devised over the years, primarily this is played with strangers that you meet on airplanes as you're traveling. But the question you ask is in your career, what you're doing now and over the course of your careers, um, what's the most shocking thing <laugh> that people would learn from what, you know, what do you, what do you find? What's the craziest thing. When you go in to look at these environments that you see that people should maybe address, um, well, go ahead and start with you, Andrew. >>I, >>The most shocking thing you see every day in your world, >>It's very interesting. The most shocking thing I think we've seen in the industry is how willing, uh, some professionals are in our industry to install any kind of device on their networks without actually taking the time to do due diligence on what kind of security risks these devices can have on a network. Because I think a lot of people don't think about a security camera as first and foremost, a computer, and it's a computer with an IP address on a network, and it has a visual sensor, but we always get pulled in by that visual sensor. Right. And it's like, oh, it's a camera. No, it's a computer. And, you know, over the last, I would say eight years in the industry, we've spent a lot of time trying to sensitize the industry to the fact that, you know, you can't just put devices on your, your network without understanding the supply chain, without understanding the motives behind who's put these together and their track record of cybersecurity. So probably the weirdest thing that I've seen in my, um, you know, career in this industry is just the willingness of people not to take time to do due diligence before they hook something up on onto their corporate network where, you know, data can start leaking out, being exfiltrated by those devices and malevolent actors behind them. So gotta ask questions about what you put on your network. >>Christian, did he steal your, did he steal your thunder? Do you have any other, any other thoughts? >>Well, so first of all, there's things I just cannot say on TV. Okay. But you can't OK. >>You can't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Saying that you're shocked that not everyone speaks French doesn't count. Okay. Let's just get, let's get past that, but, but go, but yeah, go ahead. Any thoughts? >>So, uh, you know, I, I would say something that I I've seen a lot and, and specifically with customers sometimes that were starting to shop for a new system is you'd be surprised by first of all, there's a camera, the likelihood of actually somebody watching it live while you're actually in the field of view of that camera is close to Neil first and foremost, second, there's also a good likelihood that that camera doesn't even record. It actually is not even functional. And, and I would say a lot of organizations often realize that, you know, that camera was not functioning when they actually knew do need to get the footage. And we've seen this with some large incidents, uh, very, uh, bad incidents that happened, uh, whether in the UK or in Boston or whatnot, uh, when they're, when law enforcement is trying to get footage and they realize that a lot of cameras actually weren't recording and, and, and goes back to Andrew's point in terms of the selection process of these devices. >>Yeah. Image resolution is important, like, because you need an, an image that it actually usable so that you can actually do something with it forensically, but you know, these cameras need to be recorded by a reliable system and, and should something happen with the device. And there's always going to be something, you know, power, uh, uh, a bird ate the lens. I don't know what it might be, or squirrel ate the wire. Um, and the camera doesn't work anymore. So you have to replace it. So having a system that provides, you know, you with like health insights in terms of, of, of if it's working or not is, is actually quite important. It needs to be managed like any it environment, right? Yeah. You have all these devices and if one of them goes down, you need to manage it. And most organizations it's fire and forget, I sign a purchase order. I bought my security system, I installed it. It's done. We move on to the next one and seven years later, something bad happens. And like, uhoh, >>It's not a CCTV system. It's a network. Yeah. Life cycle management counts. >>Well, uh, I have to say on that, uh, I'm gonna be doing some research on Canadian birds and squirrels. I, I had no idea, >>Very hungry. >>Andrew, Chris, John, thank you so much. Great conversation, uh, from all of us here at the cube. Thanks for tuning in. Stay tuned. The cube from Silicon angle media, we are your leader in tech coverage.

>>welcome back everyone. We're back to intermission. I'm hama in case you forgot and hear them with Brett and Peter. So what a great morning afternoon. We've had like we're now in the home stretch and you know, I really want to give a shout out to all of you who are sticking with us, especially if you're in different time zone than pacific. So I then jumped into the community rooms. The spanish won, the Brazilian won the french one. Everybody is just going strong. So again, so much so gratitude for that. Thank you for being so involved and really participating the chat rooms in the community. The chat windows in the community rooms are just going nuts. So it's, it's really good to see that. And as usual, Peter and brat had some great, very interactive panels and that was very exciting to watch. But you know, since they were on the panels, I decided to go and see some other things and I actually attended the last mile of container ization. That was, that was actually a very good session. We had a lot of good interactivity there. Yeah. And then while also talked about the container security in the cloud native world. So that was, I think that was your panel peter. That was, that was very exciting. And um, I want to share with everybody the numbers that we've been seeing for dr khan live. So as, as of, I'm sorry, said we need a drumroll. We do need a drum roll. Can you do a drum roll for me? No, no, no. >>Just a >>symbol. Okay, good. Go. Uh, we're at over 22,000 attendees um, today. So that's amazing. That's great. I love the sound effect. That's a great sound effect. The community rooms continue to be really engaged. We're still seeing hundreds of people in those rooms. So again shout out to everyone who is participating. And I felt again like a kid in a candy store didn't know which sessions to attend. They were all very interesting and you know, we're getting some good feedback on twitter. I want to read out some more tweets that we got and one in particular, I don't know whether to feel happy for this person or sad for this person, but it's uh well the initials are P. W. And he said that he was up at two am to watch the keynotes. So again, I'll let you decide whether you're it's a good thing or not, but we're happy to have you PW is awesome. Um as well. There was someone who said that these features are so needed. The things that dr announced this morning in the keynotes and that doctor has reacted to our pains and I think they mean has addressed their pain. So that was really gratifying to read. Yeah, really wonderful. That's some other countries that I didn't shout out before this just tells you what the breadth and scope of our community is. Indonesia, la paz Bolivia, Greece, Munich, Ukraine, oxford UK Australia Philippines. And there's just more and I'm going to do a special shadow to Montreal because that's where I'm from. So yes, applause for that. It was really great. And so I just want to thank all of you. Um, I want to encourage you when we talked about the power of community. Remember we're doing a fundraiser. So to combat Covid for Covid relief or actually all that money is going to go to UNICEF. Docker is contributing 10,000 and we're doing a go fund me. And the link is there on the screen. So please donate. You know, just $1. 1 person each of you donates $1. We would have raised over $22,000. So please please find it within you to contribute because again, our communities that are, that are the most effective are India and brazil, which are are very active doctor affinity. So please give back. I really appreciate that >>highlighted by the brazil. Yeah. >>You're going to brazil room and get them all to donate. Exactly. Um, also want to encourage, you know, if you're interested in participating in our, in our road map. Our public road map is on GIT hub. So it's get home dot com slash docker slash roadmap. And that's something that you can participate in and vote up features that you want to see. We love to get the community involved and participating in our, in our road map. So make sure to check that out. And I also want to note on that >>Hello can real quick. I'm sorry. Yeah, I talk about our road map all the time, but honestly folks out there are PMS are in their our ceo is in there that we do watch that. That is our roadmap is extremely, extremely important to us. So any features complaints, right, joining the conversation. That's a great way to get uh to interact with Docker in our products. Right. We we really highly valued the road map. Okay, back to your mama, sorry. >>Oh absolutely. And if you want to see us be even more responsive to what you need to participate in that road map discussion. That's really great. Um a couple of things coming up, just want to put the spotlight on. We have at 3 15 what's new with with desktop from our own ue cow. So I highly recommend that you attend that session and of course there's the Woman in tech live panel. So this is very exciting, moderated by yours truly and it has putting a spotlight on our women captains and our women developers. So that's very exciting. But I also hear that we're doing there's a session with jay frog coming up so peter, why don't you talk about that a little bit? >>Yeah, we have a session coming up from our partners from jay frog around devops patterns and anti patterns for continuous software updates. And another one that I'm extremely excited about is uh RM one talk from our very own Tony's from Docker. So if you have an M one and you're interested in multi arc architecture builds, check that out. It's gonna be a great, great talk. Um and then we have melissa McKay also from jay frog, talking about Docker and the container ecosystem and last but definitely not least. We'll check them all out there. Going to be great. But Brett is going to be doing I think the best panel that I'm gonna go watch and he made up a new word, it's called say this. I'm all about the trending new words today about this is gonna be awesome. Yeah. Yeah >>I'm going to have the battle bottle of the panels. >>Yeah. Yeah well mine's before years so we're not competing. So yeah we have we have two excellent panels in a row to finish off the day and just seven list is basically how to run, how can we run containers without managing servers? So it doesn't mean you don't actually have infrastructure just let's not manage service. Um Yeah and we we uh need to wrap it up and >>Uh before we do that I just want to um tell everyone that we actually have a promotion going on. So we um for those that sign up for a pro or team subscription, we're offering a 20% off so there's the U. R. L.. You can check out what the promotion is and this is for a new and returning users so you can use the promo code dr khan 21 all the information is on the website are really encourage you to check that out promotion for 20% off, join us for our panels. And we're doing a wrap up at five p.m. Where we'll have our own Ceo and that wrap up portion. Look forward to seeing there. All right, >>thank you too. All right everyone we'll see you on the next go around coming up next me and some other people awesome and Yeah. Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. >>Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. Is >>a really varied community. There's a lot of people with completely different backgrounds, completely different experience levels and completely different goals about how they want to use Docker. And I think that's really interesting. It's always easy to talk about the technology that I've used for so many years. I really love Doctor and I can find so many ways that it's useful and it's great to use in your day to day work clothes. I've >>used doctor for anything from um tracking airplanes with my son, which was a kind of cool project to more professional projects where we actually Built one of the first database as his services using docker even before it was 10 and I was released and we took it further and we start composing monitoring tools. We really start taking it to the next level. And we got to the point where I was trying to make everything in a container, I love to use >>doctor to make disposable project so I can download the project and it's been that up using Docker compose or something like that in a way that every developer that works in the project doesn't even need to know the underlying technology doesn't just need to run Docker compose up and the whole project is going to be up and running even if >>you're not using doctor and production, there are a lot of other ways that you can use doctor to make your life so much easier. As a developer, you can run your projects on your machine locally. Um as a tester you can actually launch test containers and be able to run um dependencies that your project requires. You can run real life versions so that um you're as close to production as possible. >>I was able to migrate most of the workloads from our on from uh to the cloud. Running complete IEDs inside a docker or running it or using it basically to replace their build scripts or using it to run not web applications but maybe compile c plus plus code or compile um projects that really just require some sort of consistency across their team, >>whether it be a web app or a database, I can control these all the same. That was really the power I saw within Doctors standardization and the portability >>doctor isn't the one that created containers uh and uh but it's the one that made it uh democratically possible, so everyone use it. And this effort has made the technology environment so much better for everyone that uses it, both for developers and for end users. So this >>past year has been quite interesting and I think we're all in the same boat here, so no one has, no one is an exception to this, but what we all learn from it is, you know, the community is very important and to lean on other people for help for assistance. >>Yeah, it's been really challenging of course, but I think the biggest and most obvious thing that I've learned both on a personal and a business perspective is just to be ready to adapt to change and don't be afraid of it either. I think it's worth noting that you should never really take it for granted that the paradigms of, you know, the world or technology or something like that aren't going to shift drastically and very, very quickly. >>I'm looking forward to what is coming down the pipe with doctor. What more are they going to throw our way in order to make our lives easier? >>It's very interesting to see the company grow and adapt the way it has. I mean it as well as the community, it's been very interesting to see, you know, how, you know, the return to develop our focus is now the main focus and I find that's very interesting because, you know, developers are the ones that really boost the doctor to where it is today. And if we keep on encouraging these developer innovation, we'll just see more tools being developed on top of Doctor in the future, and that's what I'm really excited to see with Doctor and the technology in the future.

>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco It's theCUBE. Covering RSA Conference 2020, San Francisco. Brought to you by Silicon Angled Media >> Hi everyone, welcome to theCUBE's coverage here at RSA Conference 2020. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE We're on the floor getting all the data, sharing it with you here, Cube coverage. Got the best new generation shift happening as cloud computing goes to the whole other level. Multi-cloud, hybrid cloud changing the game. You're seeing the companies transition from an on-premises to cloud architecture. This is forcing all the companies to change. So a new generation of security is here and we've got a great guest, so a hot start-up. Masha Sedova, co-founder of Elevate Security. Welcome to theCUBE, thanks for joining us. >> Thank you so much for having me, John. >> So the next generation in what will be a multi-generational security paradigm, is kind of happening right now with the beginning of, we're seeing the transition, Palo Alto Networks announced earnings yesterday down 13% after hours because of the shift to the cloud. Now I think they're going to do well, they're well positioned, but it highlights this next generation security. You guys are a hot start-up, Elevate Security. What is the sea change? What is going on with security? What is this next generation paradigm about? >> Yeah, so it's interesting that you talk about this as next generation. In some ways, I see this as a two-prong move between, yes, we're moving more into the cloud but we're also going back to our roots. We're figuring out how to do asset management right, we're figuring out how to do patching right, and for the first time, we're figuring how to do the human element right. And that's what where we come in. >> You know, the disruption of these new shifts, it also kind of hits like this, the old expression, 'same wine, new bottle', all this, but it's a data problem. Security has always been a data problem, and we've seen some learnings around data. Visualization, wrangling, there's a lot of best practices around there. You guys are trying to change the security paradigm by incorporating a data-centric view with changing the behavior of the humans and the machines and kind of making it easier to manage. Could you share what you guys are doing? What's the vision for Elevate? >> Yeah, so we believe and we've seen, from our experience being practitioners, you can't change what you can't measure. If you don't have visibility, you don't know where you're going. And that's probably been one of the biggest pain-point in the security awareness space traditionally. We just roll out training and hope it works. And it doesn't, which is why human error is a huge source of our breaches. But we keep rolling out the same one-size fits all approach without wanting to measure or, being able to. So, we've decided to turn the problem on its head and we use existing data sets that most organizations who have a baseline level of maturity already have in place. Your end point protections, your DLP solutions, your proxies, your email security gateways and using that to understand what your employees are doing on the network to see if user generated incidents are getting better over time or getting worse. And using that as the instrumentation and the level of visibility into understanding how you should be orchestrating your program in this space. >> You know, that's a great point. I was just having a conversation last night at one of the cocktail parties here around RSA and we were debating on, we talk about the kind of breaches, you mentioned breaches, well there's the pure breach where I'm going to attack and penetrate the well fortified network. But then there's just human error, an S3 bucket laying open or some configuration problem. I guess it's not really a breach, it's kind of an open door so the kind of notion of a breach is multifold. How do you see that, because again, human error, insider threats or human error, these are enabling the hackers. >> Yeah >> This is not new. >> Yeah. >> How bad is the problem? >> It depends on what report you read. The biggest number I've seen so far is something like 95% of breaches have human error. But I honestly, I couldn't tell you what the 5% that don't include it because if you go far enough back, it's because a patch wasn't applied and there is a human being involved there because there is vulnerability in code, that's probably a secure coding practice when you're a development organization. Maybe it's a process that wasn't followed or even created in the first place. There's a human being at the core of every one of these breaches and, it needs to be addressed as holistically as our technologies and our processes right now in the space. >> The evolution of human intelligence augmented by machines will certainly help. >> That's it, yeah. >> I mean, I've got to ask you, obviously you're well-funded. Costanova Ventures well known in the enterprise space, Greg Sands and the team there, really strong, but you guys entered the market, why? I mean you guys, you and your founder both at Salesforce.com. Salesforce gurus doing a lot of work there. Obviously you've seen the large scale, first wave of the cloud. >> Yeah >> Why do the start-up? What was the problem statement you guys were going after? >> So, my co-founder and I both came from the world of being practitioners and we saw how limited the space was and actually changing human behavior, I was given some animated PowerPoints, said use this to keep the Russians out of your network, which is a practical joke unless your job is on the line, so I took a huge step back and I said, there are other fields that have figured this out. Behavioral science being one of them, they use positive reinforcement, gamification, marketing and advertisements have figured out how to engage the human element, just look around the RSA floor, and there's so many learnings of how we make decisions as human beings that can be applied into changing people's behaviors in security. So that's what we did. >> And what was the behavior you're trying to change? >> Yeah, so the top one's always that our attackers are getting into organizations, so, reducing phishing click-throughs an obvious one, increasing reporting rates, reducing malware infection rates, improving sensitive data handling, all of which have ties back to, as I was mentioning earlier, security data sources. So, we get to map those and use that data to then drive behavior change that's rooted in concepts like social proof, how are you doing compared to your peers? We make dinner decisions on that and Amazon buying decisions on that, why not influence security like that? >> So building some intelligence into the system, is there a particular market you're targeting? I mean, here people like to talk in segments, is there a certain market that you guys are targeting? >> Yeah, so the amazing thing about this is, and probably no surprise, the human element is a ubiquitous problem. We are in over a dozen different industries and we've seen this approach work across all of those industries because human beings make the same mistakes, no matter what kind of company they're in. We really work well with larger enterprises. We work well with larger enterprises because they tend to have the data sets that really provides insights into human behavior. >> And what's the business model you guys envision happening with your service product? >> We sell to enterprises and security, the CISO and the package as a whole, gives them the tools to have the voice internally in their organization We sell to Fortune 1000 companies, >> So it's a SAAS service? >> Yeah, SAAS service, yeah. >> And so what's the technology secret sauce? (laughing) >> Um, that's a great question but really, our expertise is understanding what information people need at what time and under what circumstances, that best changes their behavior. So we really are content diagnostic, we are much more about the engine that understands what content needs to be presented to whom and why. So that everyone is getting only the information they need, they understand why they need it and they don't need anything extra-superfluous to their... >> Okay, so I was saying on theCUBE, my last event was at, CIO's can have good days and bad days. They have good days, CISOs really have good days, many will say bad days, >> Masha: Yeah, it's a hard job. >> So how do I know I need the Elevate Solution? What problem do I have, what's in it for me? What do I get out of it? When do I know when to engage with you guys? >> I take a look at how many user generated incidents your (mumbles) responding to, and I would imagine it is a large majority of them. We've seen, while we were working at Salesforce and across our current customers, close to a 40% reduction rate in user generated incidents, which clearly correlates to time spent on much more useful things than cleaning up mistakes. It's also one of the biggest ROI's you can get for the cheapest investment. By investing a little bit in your organization now, the impact you have in your culture and investing in the future decision, the future mistakes that never get made, are actually untold, the benefit of that is untold. >> So you're really kind of coming in as a holistic, kind of a security data plane if you will, aggregating the data points, making a visualization in human component. >> You've got it. >> Now, what's the human touchpoint? Is it a dashboard? Is it notifications? Personalization? How is the benefit rendered for the customer? >> So we give security teams and CSOs a dashboard that maps their organization's strengths and weaknesses. But for every employee, we give personalized, tailored feedback. Right now it shows up in an email that they get on an ongoing basis. We also have one that we tailor for executives, so the executive gets one for their department and we create an executive leaderboard that compares their performance to fellow peers and I'll tell you, execs love to win, so we've seen immense change from that move alone. >> Well, impressive pedigree on your entrepreneurial background, I see Salesforce has really kind of, I consider real first generation cloud before cloud actually happened, and there's a lot of learn, it was always an Apple case, now it's AWS, but it's it's own cloud as we all know, what are the learnings that you saw from Salesforce that you said hey, I'm going to connect those dots to the new opportunity? What's the real key there? >> So, I had two major aha's that I've been sharing with my work since. One, it's not what people know, but it's what they do that matters, and if you can sit with a moment and think about that, you realize it's not more training, because people might actually know the information, but they just choose not to do it. How many people smoke, and they still know it kills them? They think that it doesn't apply to them, same thing with security. I know what I need to do, I'm just not incentivized to do it, so there's a huge motivation factor that needs to be addressed. That's one thing that I don't see a lot of other players on the market doing and one thing we just really wanted to do as well. >> So it sounds like you guys are providing a vision around using sheet learning and AI and data synthesis wrangling and all that good stuff, to be an assistant, a personal assistant to security folks, because it sounds like you're trying to make their life easier, make better decisions. Sounds like you guys are trying to distract away all these signals, >> You're right. >> See what to pay attention to. >> And make it more relevant, yeah. Well think about what Fitbit did for your own personal fitness. It curates a personal relationship based on a whole bunch of data. How you're doing, goals you've set, and all of a sudden, a couple of miles walk leads to an immense lifestyle change. Same thing with security, yeah. >> That's interesting, I love the Fitbit analogy because if you think about the digital ecosystem of an enterprise, it used to be siloed, IT driven, now with digital, everything's connected so technically, you're instrumenting a lot of things for everything. >> Yeah. >> So the question's not so much instrumentation, it's what's happening when and contextually why. >> That's it, why, that's exactly it. Yeah, you totally got it. >> Okay. I got it. >> Yeah, I can see the light bulb. >> Okay, aha, ding ding. All right, so back to the customer pain point. You mentioned some data points around KPI's that they might or things that they might want to call you so it's incidents, what kind of incidents? When do I know I need to get you involved? Will you repeat those again? >> There's two places where it's a great time to involve. Now, because of the human element is, or think about this as an investment. If you do non-investor security culture, one way or another, you have security culture. It's either hurting you or it's helping you and by hurting you, people are choosing to forego investing security processes or secure cultures and you are just increasing your security debt. By stepping in to address that now, you are actually paying it forward. The second best time, is after you realize you should have done that. Post-breaches or post incidents, is a really great time to come in and look at your culture because people are willing to suspend their beliefs of what good behavior looks like, what's acceptable and when you look at an organization and their culture, it is most valuable after a time of crisis, public or otherwise, and that is a really great time to consider it. >> I think that human error is a huge thing, whether it's as trivial as leaving an S3 bucket open or whatever, I think it's going to get more acute with service meshes and cloud-native microservices. It's going to get much more dynamic and sometimes services can be stood up and torn down without any human knowledge, so there's a lot of blind spots potentially. This brings up the question of how does the collaboration piece, because one of the things about the security industry is, it's a community. Sharing data's important, having access to data, how do you think about that as the founder of a start-up that has a 20 mile steer to the future around data access, data diversity, blind spots, how do you look at that and how do you advise your clients to think about that? >> I've always been really pro data sharing. I think it's one of the things that has held us back as an industry, we're very siloed in this space, especially as it relates to human behavior. I have no idea, as a regular CISO of a company, if I am doing enough to protect my employees, is my phishing click (mumbles), are my malware download rates above normal, below or should I invest more, am I doing enough? How do I do compared to my peers and without sharing industry stats, we have no idea if we're investing enough or quite honestly, not enough in this space. And the second thing is, what are approaches that are most effective? So let's say I have a malware infection problem, which approach, is it this training? Is it a communication? Is it positive reinforcement, is it punishment? What is the most effective to leverage this type of output? What's the input output relation? And we're real excited to have shared data with Horizon Data Breach Report for the first time this year, to start giving back to the communities, specifically to help answer some of these questions. >> Well, I think you're onto something with this behavioral science intersection with human behavior and executive around security practices. I think it's going to be an awesome, thanks for sharing the insights, Miss Masha on theCUBE here. A quick plug for your company, (mumbles) you're funded, Series A funding, take us through the stats, you're hiring what kind of positions, give a plug to the company. >> So, Elevate Security, we're three years old. We have raised ten million to date. We're based in both Berkeley and Montreal and we're hiring sales reps on the west coast, a security product manager and any engineering talent really focused on building an awesome data warehouse infrastructure. So, please check out our website, www.elevatesecurity.com/careers for jobs. >> Two hot engineering markets, Berkeley I see poaching out of Cal, and also Montreal, >> Montreal, McGill and Monterey. >> You got that whole top belt of computer science up in Canada. >> Yeah. >> Well, congratulations. Thanks for coming on theCUBE, sharing your story. >> Thank you. >> Security kind of giving the next generation all kinds of new opportunities to make security better. Some CUBE coverage here in San Francisco, at the Moscone Center. I'm John Furrier, we'll be right back after this break. (upbeat music)

>>Ly from San Diego, California at the cube covering to clock in cloud native con brought to you by red hat, the cloud native computing foundation and its ecosystem Marsh. >>Welcome back. This is the cube live coverage three days wall to wall coverage of CubeCon cloud native con in San Diego. I'm Stu Miniman. My cohost for these three days is John Troyer. And welcome to the program. First of all, from the keynote stage, Heather Kirksey, who is the vice president of community and ecosystem development with the Linux foundation for CNCF part of Linux foundation and from some of the technology behind the scenes joining her, Sandy Pennys are the SVP of strategic engagement at attorney. Thank you so much for joining us. Right. So Heather, this was a really cool demo with a lot of things going beyond the scene. Uh, if people actually go watch an interview we did yesterday, uh, with, uh, the people at red hat talk about, uh, it's a good thing. It was cloud native because there was a brownout cower was lost, had to rebuild the entire thing. Um, and everybody up on stage, you know, the next day, didn't know anything the wiser. So, uh, you know, really cool pot on stage. Uh, you know, talking about 5g global engagement, China mobile, uh, other banks. I like, um, I'm sorry, other mobile providers, uh, like from Canada and from Europe involved in this. Um, give us a little bit of the, the, the foundation view as to, you know, how something like this comes together and how you get participation from, you know, the technology providers, the telco providers. Uh, you know, it takes, it takes a village. >>First of all, you have to be slightly mad. Um, but I mean that's, that's really kind of the premise of open source, right? Is that people come together and they build things together. And so we done some demos in the past, um, where we looked at sort of, you know, the, the modernization of the central office. And so we had had some, you know, some tea, you know, some tapes of folks that had been building things. And then we, you know, we sent out a call basically to the community and said, yeah, we'd like to do another one. And what we're going to try to do is full five G full called native, if you're interested in joining, yo come on. And so it just ended up that basically 15 organizations said, yes, that sounds like something that we would like to prove out. And 80 volunteers across those organizations ended up working on it. >>My understanding was about four months, uh, to, to put all the pieces together, bring us, bring us through kinda, you know, how the stack gets built and. >>Yeah, well I mean, so amongst some of the issues where you have five G itself is fairly new. So we, we started with sort of the complexities of getting equipment, you know, and getting five G radio. You know, we had a partner in China who had a 5g handset that then wanted us to indemnify, you know, all of these things. Uh, to the extent that like we as a nonprofit didn't feel comfortable signing the agreement. So it was, you know, it started actually just, I mean, this was so cutting edge with in terms of the five G aspect that getting equipment was challenging. Um, yeah. And that's before you even get to sort of the challenges of building the stack. So, um, so, you know, it started kind of figuring out what pieces started building things, um, you know, found some yo gaps in Coobernetti's around supporting the, the, the sophistication of networking that we have to do. Um, so we figured out how to work around it for the demo, but what we want to do is start upstreaming some, um, some changes into, into some of the projects there. >>All right, so San Deepa, your company's one of the providers inside here. So tell us what, what drew you into it and how it is living on that bleeding edge was something like five. >>Well, it's, it's absolutely thrilling living on that leading edge. It's exciting, you know, lots of risks. But the payoff yesterday was fantastic. Be able to complete that call on stage. You know, from our perspective, we were invited in fairly early on into the project. Uh, and we're, we're thrilled to be part of it. And as once we understood the scope and what everyone's trying to do, we realized like we're providing the, the SD wan for this project, connecting the public cloud, the private cloud, and we're deploying, uh, using containers, Kubernetes. And we are able to bring the entire thing together by creating one virtual network so that it's seamless and all the underlying infrastructure, that layer, layer two, layer one, the underlay is just completely invisible to be able to transport that call, to do the signaling, to do everything that needs to be done. >>So for us to become part of this project was really powerful for one, for us to just, uh, just work with some of the companies that were there, like the Linux foundation and tell the Nobel all the other big name players that were out there. And so that was, that was amazing. An amazing experience. But then the community itself that came together, like the people that we met, we met them all at the show. It's all phone calls, we met them all at the show and it really is a community filled with love and a real drive and desire, uh, to build something new and different. Right. Sprinkled with a bit of crazy. >>Yeah. >>Well, so I mean this is a, is a great example of how the Linux foundation can be a catalyst here. I mean one of the Linux foundation is so broad, the CNCF is so broad and you're operating in many domains in this being, you know, bringing the telecom world together, being one of them. But I don't know, can you maybe just talk a little bit about the ecosystem and the unique challenges of, I mean there are some times open source approaches that are a little more strongly opinionated. Like this is going to be our, this is, this is what we're working on. This is going to be our stack. This is the projects in our stack. CNCF has a obviously a, a well documented and open, uh, process around bringing projects in and projects graduating. How does that make your >>life harder? >> Yeah. Well, I mostly focus on our networking projects and working with the telecom industry. And yeah, I mean Telekom definitely likes to be opinionated, you know, I mean that's, that's kind of, and our soul. Um, and so that is also is useful because really at the end of the day, interoperability for the type of scale that telecom operators has is very important. Right? It's um, yeah, some of the cloud providers, right? It's up to the people who want to run on them to like work with their API APIs. But the, the telecom operators, they're using all these applications to provide services to their customers so they have a business need to make sure everything really works end to end. And so there's actually an initiative right now between, um, the LF networking projects and the GSM, uh, where we're really trying to, not to prescriptively, because we do also understand that that doesn't know, you're not going to get the exact same pieces of software that worked for every single operator's network or business, but with a lot more sort of UPenn opinion around, you know, what should the cloud platforms, whether they are VM based or container based, what do they look like and how can we start doing things like compliance and verification programs around commercial implementations, whether it is the underlying platform or whether it's the applications on top. >>And so that's the thing that, you know, we're, we're working on right now because at the end of the day, we're really needing to help them accelerate their, their deployments and, um, get that agility. That's the promise of. >>So, Heather, I want to go back to something you mentioned earlier that there were some gaps in Coobernetti's speak to how fast the community rallied around to, you know, allow this, uh, solution to go forward. >>Yeah. So, um, I'll, I mean basically this is what happens when you get a bunch of engineers together, you know, for the demo itself, we weren't going to fork or make our own sort of changes Kubernetes. So we, we did some things to, to tie things together. Probably you've seen SD when I see Rampart. But yeah, one of the, one of the big issues is just being able to expose multiple interfaces. Um, which, you know, in a service writer network you have multiple interfaces, right? Um, fi six support is another big issue. And so being able to expose those natively in Kubernetes or natively just using cloud native, it's something that we're still working on. Um, there, there are a couple of projects that are looking at that um, network service mesh. Uh, you know, maybe there's some different CNI who are beginning to think through that problem. Um, none of them were quite there. So yeah, we didn't want to start forking and writing pseudo Kubernetes code. Um, so we kinda just use some of the tools and the players in place to work around that. But we, what we would love is to upstream that code and to main line. Sure. >>Yeah. So Sandy would love to hear a little bit more about how SD wind fits in the entire multicloud discussion. Um, we were, we had a pop here in San Diego. There's a lab in Montreal and then there is a, a lab in France and we use public, uh, a combination of, uh, the Alibaba cloud in North America and in Europe. And what we had to do is we had to create a way for the phones to reach each other. So we had to do this initial signaling where you do the request and you have to get to all of the different pods to make the, to make the request. So what we did is we put our, um, containers and all the, in all the cloud providers and also in the labs and we were able to create that private network. And that was what allowed for the call signaling to happen. >>And for the actual call to actually be completed from one to handset to the other. Cindy, you're uh, uh, you talked about community, you know, you're an engineer, a stye in our eyes, a word is SDN when a word, I suppose they usually hear more on an enterprise side of the show. Right. And, uh, you know, talk with lots of folks who provide, you know, in, in that space. This is a little bit different, right? As you, I don't know if you've had a chance to wander either in the sessions or on the floor, kind of curious. There is some, a little bit of networking out there, a little bit networking, security and a couple of other, certainly some service mesh stuff. Right. I don't know. What are your thoughts about how this is growing up on the, in this open source world? It's, listen, it's growing up very fast, right? >>That's, that's 100% sure. I mean, the show is, is, is growing like leaps and bounds every year. It's insane. And that, that, that debt, that performance yesterday was in front of, I don't know how many thousands of people, but I mean that was huge and it was amazing. Um, and you're right, you know, normally when you're thinking about this kind of stuff, you're not necessarily thinking about the networking, but at the end of the day, you know, Kubernetes is a platform or a tool. SD wan is a tool. Um, and if you take all of these tools and put them together, you can actually build something wonderful, right? And that's what we did in this project here. We were able to deliver a 5g call and you know, run it everywhere. So I think what's important in the community, even though this is really primarily a developer event and developer show, you are seeing some edge people here, you are seeing some networking people here and people are the awareness of, Oh wait, you know, we need edge and we need networking to actually build, you know, commercializable platforms or products, right. Is, it's that awareness that's just, I think this year at least is really starting to come out. And I think next year it's going to be even more prevalent and you're going to the show me evolve, you know? And that's why where I kind of see it going. >>Yeah. I mean, I think application developers and general tend to think networking is amazing. It just happens to be, they're sort of like plumbing and power. Um, but to actually deliver it is a fairly complicated challenge and it's part of the reason we want to do the demo yesterday was actually to kind of show some of the challenges and to kind of show what it takes to set up a mobile network. So the F we're going to use Kubernetes to do that. They, you know, the developers here would have a little bit more understanding so that when we were like, we need, you know, we need multiple interfaces or we need to be able to address things in a certain way. They, they, they have a better understanding of why so they can help us from the telecom industry, uh, design and build it out. >>Yeah. I guess the last thing is we've had the cube of the open source summit. We've been to the open networking summit. Uh, you know, when you get off the stage, you put, you know, there's so many different open source projects that Dan just give us a view as to how they span across all of these communities to make sure that we don't end up with a lot of fragmented things. How does everything kind of pull together in the networking? All right, so, so many projects across so many sources, how does, how does Linux foundation make sure that we don't just end up with, you know, siloed, uh, you know, places? >>Well, yeah, to be, to be honest, it's a little bit of a challenge because sometimes the reason that we end up with multiple projects serving what looks like similar needs is because there are different technical approaches. And so might be one will work better than the other. I mean, that's kind of the idea of open source that people can try different things. Um, and, uh, we just try to help people have more, less of a not invented here sort of mindset that if there's a good reason, uh, to try a different approach, go for it. And let's see what, what takes root and what flowers. Um, but you know, also other people are doing things, so just because you're not aware of them. So we, you know, there's a lot of stuff around education and, um, sharing of information that we try to do that, that helps with that. But I mean, yeah. >>Heather, Cindy, thank you so much for joining us regulations on, on the demo. A lot of hard work. >>Thank you. I just have to tell you, I feel as though a thousand pound weight has been lifted off my shoulders out, but it was extraordinarily fun to do actually. >>It was fun. Thank you for John Troyer. I'm Stu Miniman getting towards the end of our three days wall-to-wall coverage. They're running for the tee shirts that are left, but we've got a couple more interviews. Thank you for watching the queue.

>>Ly from San Diego, California. It's the cube covering to clock in cloud native con brought to you by red hat, the cloud native computing foundation and its ecosystem Marsh. >>Welcome back to San Diego. It's CubeCon cloud native con 2019. You're watching the cube. I'm streaming in my cohost for three days of live coverage is John Troyer and happened at welcome fresh off the keynote stage to my right is as hers as har who's the chief architect for telco at red hat and the man that was behind the scenes for a lot of it, hunting Garcia, telco solutions manager at red hat. A gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us and a very interesting keynote. So you know 5g uh, you know, my background's networking, we all watch it. Um, uh, let's say my telco provider already says that I have something related to five G on my phone that we grumble a little bit about, but we're not going to talk about that where we are going to talk about his keynote. Uh, we had a China mobile up on stage. Uh, maybe a, I love a little bit behind the scenes as you were saying. Uh, you know, the cloud native enabled not just uh, you know, the keynote and what it's living, but it gets a little bit of what >>well, sure. Um, look, when we took on this particular project to build a cloud native environment, uh, for five genes, we spent a lot of time planning and in fact this is a guy who actually did, you know, most of that work, um, to do a lot of planning in terms of picking different components and getting that together. Um, one of the things that cloud native environment allows us to do is bring things up quickly. The resilience part of it and the scale bar, right? Those are the two important components and attributes of cloud native. In fact, what happened last night was obviously one of the circuit breakers trapped and we actually lost power to that particular entire part that is onstage. I mean, nobody knows about this. I didn't talk about it as part of the keynote, but guess what? Through because it was cloud native because it was built in an automated fashion. People were able to work. Yes, they spent about three hours or so to actually get that back up. But we got it back up and running and we showed it live today. But what, I'm not trying to stress on how it failed a white fail. I'm trying to stress on how quickly things came back up and more important. The only cloud native way of doing things could have done that. Otherwise it wouldn't have been possible. All right. >>as, as the man behind the scenes there. Uh, it's great when we have, you know, here's actually the largest telco provider in the world. Uh, you know, showing what it, it's happened. So the title Kubernetes everywhere that telco edge gets a little bit of a hind, the scenes as to kind of the, the, the mission of building the solution and how you got it, you know, your, your, your customers, your partners, uh, engaged and excited to participate in. >> This is what's that very thirsting enterprise through realize. Actually, we took four months around, uh, 15 partners. And, uh, I would say partners >>because in that case, I'm taking, uh, uh, bell Canada and China mobile is a partners. They are part of the project. They were giving us a requirement, helping us all the way to it and together other, uh, more, uh, commercial partners. And of course, uh, as whatsover Allianz, like the team in the and the open interface, Allianz is, we're working with us is, was about 8,200 people working behind the scenes to get this work, uh, to have a lab, uh, directly, completely set up with a full, uh, Fuji containerized MoMA and network in France, uh, have the same in Montreal. Fuji and fogey called directly Montiel as well, uh, in one of our partners, uh, Calum labs and then bringing here the fudgey pop, uh, and have everything connected to the public cloud. So we have everything in there. So all the technology, all the mobile technology was there. >>We have enterprise technology that we're using to connect all the, all the labs and the, and the pop here with the public cloud to. Uh, um, technology and we have of course deployed as, as a, as our, uh, was mentioning. We deployed Kubernete is on the public cloud and we have as well Kubernete is open, rehabbed, open stack, uh, sorry. They had OpenShift container platform running on the, on all the premise in the lab in France and Davi, Marcia and they pop here. Uh, as I say, it was kind of an interesting enterprise. We have some hiccups last night, but uh, we were able to put that out the world telco, >>very specialized, very high service level agreements. I always want by phone to work and so a little bit, uh, uses different terminology than the rest of it sometimes. Right. And MP and VNF and VCO. But so maybe let's real to tell people a little bit like what are we actually talking about here? I mean, people also may not be following edge and, and teleco and what's actually sitting in their home town or, or it used to be embedded chips and none, it was a like Linux, but we're actually talking about installing Kubernetes clusters in a lot of different, really interesting typologies. That's absolutely true actually with the way how, and described it as perfect in the sense that we actually had Kubernetes clusters sitting in a data center environment in France, in Montreal and a remote pop that's sitting here on stage. So it was not just independent clusters but also stretch clusters where we actually had some worker nodes here that will attach back to the Montreal cluster. >>So the flexibility that it gave us was just awesome. We can't achieve that. Uh, you know, in general. But you brought up an interesting topic around, uh, you know, Getty or, uh, or, or the Teleco's operating environment, which is different and cloud native principles has, are a little bit different where they weren't very high availability, they weren't very high reliability with good amount of redundancy. Well, cloud native and actually those attributes to you. But the operational model is very different. You have to almost use codas throwaway hardware as throwaway and do a horizontal scale model to be able to build that. Whereas in the older environment, hardware was a premium switches and routers with a premium and you couldn't have a failure. So you needed all of those, you know, compliance of high availability and upgradability and so on. Here I'm upgrading processes in Linux, I'm upgrading applications. I can go deploy anytime, tear them down. Anytime I'm monitoring the infrastructure, using metrics, using telemetry. That wasn't the case before. So a different operating environment, but it provides actually better residency models than what telcos are actually yesterday. Yeah. >>Um, it's a complicated ecosystem to put all these pieces together. Uh, it gives, gives a little insight as to, uh, you know, red hats, leadership and uh, the, the, the partners that help you put it in. >>I will let him answer that. >>Um, is another, our first rodeo. We have been working on the vitro central office project with the, with the leaner foundation, uh, networking and Hopi NFV community for three last years. Uh, let's say, and the interesting part of this one is that even though we typically get with working with what the technology that they are using now, uh, we decided it's time to go with the technologies that we'll be using from now on. Um, but of course, uh, there is a set of partners that we need. We need to build the infrastructure from scratch. So for example, we have a Lenovo that was bringing all the, all the servers, uh, for the, for the set up in, uh, and here in San Diego, which actually the San Diego pub was built originally in Raleigh, Illinois, facilities and cheap all over the country to here for the show. Uh, and uh, then we have the fabric part. >>So the networking part, that's his cologne. Uh, this was working and bringing us the software defined fabric, uh, to connect all the different future. And then, then we start building this over layers on top. So we have, they had OpenShift container platform for the to completely deploy over metal servers. And then we start adding all the rest of the components, like the four G core fundamental Tran, like dividing for GFG radio from Altron, uh, together with Intel come Scott. That's his building. He started building the mobile part of it in Montreal, a San Diego. And then we add on top of that. Then we start adding the IMS core in the public cloud and then we connect everything through the by tuning. >>So a couple of things that I'd like to highlight in terms of coordinating partners, getting to know when they're ready, figuring out an onboarding process that gives them a sandbox to play with their configurations first before you connect them back into the main environment. Partitioning that working simultaneously with Malden, we had a Slack board that was full of messages every day. We had a nonstop, you know, every morning we had a scam call, right then it's like a scrum meeting every morning, just a daily stand up from eight 30 to nine 30. And we continue that all over the day. >>So as her, one of the things I really like to China mobile, uh, when they talked about in the keynote, first of all they said, you know, the problem is, you know, 20 by 2026, you know, it's, it's rainbows and unicorns and you know, 5g, uh, you know, will help enable so much around the planet. Seriously. Um, but you know, today she, she talked about major challenge in the rollout and infrastructure and service and capability. So, you know, help us understand a little bit the hype from reality of where we are with five G what we could expect. >>Absolutely. We are going through the hype phase right now, right? We are absolutely all the operators want FFG service to be delivered for sure. The reason why they want it to be delivered as they don't want to be left behind. Now there are some operators when we in more opportunistic and looking at 5g as a way to insert themselves into different conversations, IOT conversation, um, smart city conversation, right? Um, edge compute conversation. So they're being very strategic about how the big, the set of technologies, how they go deploy in that particular infrastructure and strategically offer capabilities and build partnerships. Nobody's going to rip out their existing three G four G network and replace that with 5g by 2026. It's not gonna happen, but what will happen by 2026 is an incremental phase of services that will be continued to offer. As an example, I'll give you, um, cable providers are looking at 5g as a way to get into homes because they can deploy in millimeter wave band a radio closer to the house and get a very high speed multi-gigabit high speed connection into the home without having to worry about what's your copper look like? >>Do I have fiber to the home? Do I have fiber to the business and so on. And so. So that's actually an interesting, >>okay, so you're saying solving the last mile issue in a very targeted use. >>Absolutely. So that's one. The other area might be running a partnership with BMW Toyota in, you know, some of these car companies to provide telemetry back from cars into their own, you know, operating environment so that they know what's going on, what's being used, how is it being used, how can we, how can we do provide diagnosis before the car actually begins to fail? Uh, big, you know, private environments like oil and gas mining, they are going to deploy public safety and security where all of these, you know, policemen on and safety personnel are required to now use body cams. Now you have video feeds coming from hundreds of people. There are deployment and incidents. Now you can take that information you need high speed broadband, you need the ability to analyze data and do analytics and provide feedback immediately so that they can actually act. So do three, this specific targeted use case, even a country like India where they're talking about using 5g for very specific use cases, not replacing your phone calling. >>I love that point. And it kind of ties back into some of the other things you were saying about the a agility and the operational model. And I relate it back to it. You know, my, again, my perception of some telco maybe 20 years old and that they had a tendency to do very monolithic projects. And you know, when you're out, when you're rolling out a infrastructure across the country, there's a certain, uh, monolithic nature to it. But you're talking about rolling out one, rolling out individual projects rolling out. That's also the advice we give to it. Try it with one thing, you know, try open shift with that one application and then also though, but it takes uh, the upskilling and the cultural model. So true with your telco petitioners who are, we're on Slack, they're with you and I, you know, I don't, I don't know if there's any relation, any other kinds of things to pull out about the mirror of, of the it transformation with telco transformation and colon Turner. That's actually a good point that you bring up, >>right? Look, the costs of building, if I have infrastructure from ground up is extremely high. If they want to completely revamp that. You're talking about replacing every single radio, you're talking about adding capacity more adding, you know, backhaul capacity and so on. So that isn't going to happen overnight. It's going to happen. It may take even more 10 years. Right. I mean in the most interesting thing, that stat stack that I saw was even LTE is going to grow. LTE subscriber count is going to grow for the next two years before it flatmates. So we're not going to LTE four G that's been around for a decade almost. Right. And it's going to still grow for the next two years, then it's going to flatten and then you'll start to see more 5g subscribers. Now back to the point that you were bringing up in terms of operational model change and in terms of how things will be I D principles applying it principles to telco. >>Um, there are still some challenges that we need to solve in Coobernetti's environment in particular, uh, to address the teleco side of the house. And in fact through this particular proof of concept, that was one of the things we were really attempting to highlight and shine a light on. Um, but in terms of operational models, what use applicable and it will now be totally applicable on the telco network, the CIC pipeline. There's delivery of applications and software that testing and integration, the, you know, um, operational models. Absolutely. Those, in fact, I actually have a number of service providers and telcos that I talked to who are actually thinking about a common platform for it end telco network. And they are now saying, okay, red hat, can you help us in terms of designing this type of a system. So I think what could speak to you a little bit about, uh, in this context is how the same infrastructure can be used for any kind of application. So you want to talk about how the community's platform can be used to deploy CNS and then to deploy applications and how you've shown that. Yeah. Well this is what, >>what we have been doing, right. So we have, uh, the coordinators platform does, is actually deploy and the services we have, all these partners are bringing their Cloudnative uh, function, uh, applications on top of that, that what we are calling the CNF the quantities and network functions. And basically what we were doing as well during the whole process is that we have, those partners are still developing, still finishing the software. So we were building and deploying at the same time and testing on the same time. So during the last four months, and even I can tell you even just to deny >>even last night, so the full CACD pipeline that we deploy in ID side, here it is in operation on the network side. >>Well yeah. So, so I, I want to give you the final word cause you know, John was talking about it cycles, you know, if you think about enterprises, how long they used to take to deploy things, uh, and what cloud data is doing for them. Uh, it sounds like we're going through a similar trends. >>Absolutely big in a big way. Um, telcos are actually deploying a private cloud environment and they're also leveraging public cloud in mind. In fact, sometimes they using public cloud as sandbox for their development to be completed until they get deployed and private. Claremont, they still need the private time enrollment for their own purposes, like security, data sovereignty and uh, you know, their own operational needs. So, but they want to make it as transparent as possible. And in fact, that was one of the things we want to also attempted to show, which is a public cloud today, a private cloud and bare metal, a private cloud on OpenStack. And it was like, and you know, it came together, it worked, but it is real. That's more important. And, uh, for enterprise and for telcos to be literally going down the same path with respect to their applications, their services and their operational models. I think this is really a dream come true. >>Well, congratulations on the demo. Uh, but even more importantly, congratulations on the progress. Great to see, uh, you know, the global impact that's going to have in the telecommunications market. Definitely look forward to hearing more than. >>Thank you very much. Thank you. The opportunity to >>actually be here. All right. For John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman back with lots more here from CubeCon Claude, date of con 2019 in San Diego, California. Thanks for watching the queue.

>>from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California It is a cute conversation. >>Hey, welcome back already, Jeffrey. Here with the cue, we're in our pal Amato Studios for acute conversation or excited, have ah, many Time Cube alone. I has been at all types of companies. He's moving around. We like to keep him close because he's got a great feel for what's going on. And now he's starting a new adventure. Eso really happy to welcome Alan Cohen back to the studio. Only great to see you. >>Hey, Draft, how are you >>in your new adventure? Let's get it right. It's the D C v c your partner. So this is ah, on the venture side. I'm gonna dark. You've gone to the dark side of the money side That is not a new firm, dark side. You know what's special about this town of money adventure right now, but you guys kind of have a special thesis. So tell us about yeah, and I think you've spoken >>to Matt and Zack. You know my partners in the past, So D. C. V. C is been in the venture business for about a decade and, um, you know, the 1st 5 years, the fund was very much focused on building, ah, lot of the infrastructure that we kind of take for granted. No things have gone into V m wear and into Citrix, and it's AWS, and hence the data collect of the D. C out of D. C. V. C. Really, the focus of the firm in the last five years and going forward is an area we call deep tech, which think about more about the intersection of science and engineering so less about. How do you improve the IittIe infrastructure? But how do you take all this computational power and put it to work in in specific industries, whether it's addressing supply chains, new forms of manufacturing, new forms of agriculture. So we're starting to see all that all the stuff that we've built our last 20 years and really apply it against kind of industrial transformation. So and we're excited. We just raise the $725 million fund. So we I got a little bit of ammunition to work with, >>Congratulate says, It's fun. Five. That's your eighth fund. Yeah, and really, it's consistent with where we're seeing all the time about applied a I and applied machine. Exactly. Right in New York, a company that's gonna build a I itt s'more the where you applying a i within an application, Where you applying machine, learning within what you do. And then you can just see the applications grow exactly right. Or are you targeting specific companies that are attacking a particular industrial focus and just using a eyes, their secret sauce or using deep taxes or secret uh, all of the above? Right. So, like I >>did when I think about D c v c like it's like so don't think about, um, I ops or throughput Orban with think about, um uh, rockets, robots, microbes, building blocks of effectively of human life and and of materials and then playing computational power and a I against those areas. So a little bit, you know, different focus. So, you know, it's the intersection of compute really smart computer science, but I'll give you a great example of something. It would be a little bit different. So we are investors and very active in a company called Pivot Bio, which is not exactly a household name. Pivot bio is a company that is replacing chemical fertilizer with microbes. And what I mean by that is they create microbes they used. So they've used all this big data and a I and computational power to construct microbes that when you plant corn, you insert the microbe into the planting cycle and it continuously produces nitrogen, which means you don't have to apply fertilizer. Right? Which fertilizer? Today in the U. S. A. $212 billion industry and two things happen. One you don't have. All of the runoff doesn't leech into the ground. The nitrous does. Nitrogen doesn't go into the air, and the crop yield has been a being been between about 12 and 15% higher. Right? >>Is it getting put? You know, the food industry is such a great place, and there's so many opportunities, both in food production. This is like beyond a chemical fertilizer instead of me. But it's great, but it's funny because you think of GMO, right? So all food is genetically modified. It's just It took a long time in the past because you had to get trees together, and yet you replant the pretty apples and throw the old apple trees away. Because if you look at an apple today versus an apple 50 years, 100 years, right, very, very different. And yet when we apply a man made kind of acceleration of that process than people, you know, kind of pushed back Well, this is this is not this is not nature, So I'm just curious in, in, in in, Well, this is like a microbe, you know? You know, they actually it is nature, right? So nature. But there'll be some crazy persons that wait, This is not, you know, you're introducing some foreign element into Well, you could take >>potash and pour it on corn. Or you could create a use, a microbe that creates nitrogen. So which one is the chemical on which one is nature, >>right, That that's why they get out. It's a funny part of that conversation, but but it's a different area. So >>you guys look, you guys spent a lot of time on the road. You talked a lot of startups. You talked a lot of companies. You actually talked to venture capitalists and most of the time where you know, we're working on the $4 trillion I t sector, not an insignificant sector, right? So that's globally. It's that's about the size of the economy. You know, manufacturing, agriculture and health care is more like 20 to $40 billion of the economy. So what we've also done is open the aperture to areas that have not gone through the technical disruption that we've seen an I t. Right now in these industries. And that's what's that mean? That's why I joined the firm. That's why I'm really excited, because on one hand you're right. There is a lot of cab you mentioned we were talking before. There is a lot of capital in venture, but there's not a CZ much targeted at the's area. So you have a larger part of global economy and then a much more of specific focus on it. >>Yeah, I think it's It's such a you know, it's kind of the future's here kind of the concept because no one knows, you know, the rate of which tech is advancing across all industries currently. And so that's where you wake up one day and you're like, Oh, my goodness, you know, look at the impacts on transportation. Look at the impacts on construction of the impacts on health care. Look at the impacts on on agriculture. So the opportunity is fantastic and still following the basic ideas of democratizing data. Not using a sample of old data but using, you know, real time analytics on hold data sets. You know, all these kind of concepts that come over really, really well to a more commercial application in a nightie application. Yeah. So, Jeff, I'm kind of like >>looking over your shoulder. And I'm looking at Tom Friedman's book The world is flat. And you know, if we think about all of us have been kind of working on the Internet for the last 20 years, we've done some amazing things like we've democratized information, right? Google's fairly powerful part of our lives. We've been able to allow people to buy things from all over the world and ship it. So we've done a lot of amazing things in the economy, but it hasn't been free. So if I need a 2032 c r. 20 to 32 battery for my key fob for my phone, and I buy it from Amazon and it comes in a big box. Well, there's a little bit of a carbon footprint issue that goes with that. So one of our key focus is in D. C V. C, which I think is very unique, is we think two things can happen is that weaken deal with some of the excess is over the economy that we built and as well as you know, unlock really large profit pulls. At the end of the day, you know, it has the word Venture Patrol says the word capital, right? And so we have limited partners. They expect returns. We're doing this obviously, to build large franchises. So this is not like this kind of political social thing is that we have large parts of the economy. They were not sustainable. And I'll give you some examples. Actually, you know, Jeff Bezos put out a pledge last week to try to figure out how to turn Amazon carbon neutral. >>Pretty amazing thing >>right with you from the was the richest person Now that half this richest person in the world, right? But somebody who has completely transformed the consumer economy as well as computing a comedy >>and soon transportation, right? So people like us are saying, Hey, >>how can we help Jeff meet his pledge? Right? And like, you know, there are things that we work on, like, you know, next generation of nuclear plants. Like, you know, we need renewables. We need solar, but there's no way to replace electricity. The men electricity, we're gonna need to run our economy and move off of coal and natural gas, Right? So, you know, being able to deal with the climate impacts, the social impacts are going to be actually some of the largest economic opportunities. But you can look at it and say, Hey, this is a terrible problem. It's ripping people across. I got caught in a traffic jam in San Francisco yesterday upon the top of the hill because there was climate protest, right? And you know, so I'm not kind of judging the politics of that. We could have a long conversation about that. The question is, how do you deal with these real issues, right and obviously and heady deal with them profitably and ethically, and I think that something is very unique about you know, D. C. V. C's focus and the ability to raise probably the largest deep tech fund ever to go after. It means that you know, a lot of people who back us also see the economic opportunity. And at the end of day there, you know, a lot of our our limited partners, our pension funds, you know, in universities, like, you know, there was a professor who has a pension fund who's gotta retire, right? So a little bit of that money goes into D C V C. So we have a responsibility to provide a return to them as well as go after these very interesting opportunities. >>So is there any very specific kind of investment thesis or industry focus Or, you know, kind of a subset within, you know, heavy lifting technology and science and math. That's a real loaded question in front of that little. So we like problems >>that can be solved through massive computational capability. And so and that reflects our heritage and where we all came from, right, you and I, and folks in the industry. So, you know, we're not working at the intersection of lab science at at a university, but we would take something like that and invest in it. So we like you know we have a lot of lessons in agriculture and health care were, surprisingly, one of the largest investors in space. We have investments and rocket labs, which is the preferred launch vehicle for any small satellite under two and 1/2 kilograms. We are large investors and planet labs, which is a constellation of 200 small satellites over investors and compel a space. So, uh, well, you know, we like space, and, you know, it's not space for the sake of space. It's like it's about geospatial intelligence, right? So Planet Labs is effectively the search engine for the planet Earth, right? They've been effectively Google for the planet, right? Right. And all that information could be fed to deal with housing with transportation with climate change. Um, it could be used with economic activity with shipping. So, you know, we like those kinds of areas where that technology can really impact and in the street so and so we're not limited. But, you know, we also have a bio fund, so we have, you know, we're like, you know, we like agriculture and said It's a synthetic biology types of investments and, you know, we've still invest in things like cyber we invest in physical security were investors and evolve, which is the lead system for dealing with active shooters and venues. Israel's Fordham, which is a drone security company. So, um, but they're all built on a Iot and massive >>mess. Educational power. I'm just curious. Have you private investment it if I'm tree of a point of view because you got a point of view. Most everything on the way. Just hear all this little buzz about Quantum. Um, you know, a censure opened up their new innovation hub in the Salesforce tower of San Francisco, and they've got this little dedicated kind of quantum computer quanta computer space. And regardless of how close it is, you know there's some really interesting computational opportunities last challenges that we think will come with some period of time so we don't want them in encryption and leather. We have lost their quantum >>investments were in literally investors and Righetti computing. Okay, on control, cue down in Australia, so no, we like quantum. Now, Quantum is a emerging area like it's we're not quite at the X 86 level of quantum. We have a little bit of work to get there, but it offers some amazing, you know, capabilities. >>One thing >>that also I think differentiates us. And I was listening to What you're saying is we're not afraid. The gold long, I mean a lot of our investments. They're gonna be between seven and 15 years, and I think that's also it's very different if you follow the basic economics adventure. Most funds are expected to be about 10 years old, right? And in the 1st 3 or four years, you do the bulk of the preliminary investing, and then you have reserves traditional, you know, you know, the big winners emerged that you can continue to support the companies, some of ours, they're going to go longer because of what we do. And I think that's something very special. I'm not. Look, we'd like to return in life of the fun. Of course, I mean, that's our do share a responsibility. But I think things like Quantum some of these things in the environment. They're going to take a while, and our limited partners want to be in that long ride. Now we have a thesis that they will actually be bigger economic opportunities. They'll take longer. So by having a dedicated team dedicated focus in those areas, um, that gives us, I think, a unique advantage, one of one of things when we were launching the fund that we realized is way have more people that have published scientific papers and started companies than NBA's, um, in the firm. So we are a little bit, you know, we're a little G here. That >>that's good. I said a party one time when I was talking to this guy. You were not the best people at parties we don't, but it is funny. The guy was He was a VC in medical medical tech, and I didn't ask him like So. Are you like a doctor? Did you work in a hospital where you worked at A at a university that doesn't even know I was investment banker on Wall Street and Michael, that's that's how to make money move. But do you have? Do you have the real world experience of being in the trenches? Were Some of these applications are being used, but I'm also curious. Where do you guys like to come in? ABC? What's your well, sweets? Traditionally >>we are have been a seed in Siri's. A investor would like to be early. >>Okay, Leader, follow on. Uh, everybody likes the lead, right? Right, right, right. You know what? Your term feet, you >>know? Yeah, right. And you have to learn howto something lead. Sometimes you follow. So we you know, we do both. Okay, Uh, there are increasing as because of the size of the fund. We will have the opportunity to be a little bit more multi stage than we traditionally are known for doings. Like, for example, we were seed investors in little companies, like conflict an elastic that worked out. Okay, But we were not. Later stage right. Investors and company likes companies like that with the new fund will more likely to also be in the later stages as well for some of the big banks. But we love seed we love. Precede. We'd like three guys in in a dog, right? If they have a brilliant >>tough the 7 50 to work when you're investing in the three guys in a dog and listen well and that runs and runs and you know you >>we do things we call experiments. Just you know, uh, we >>also have >>a very unique asset. We don't talk about publicly. We have a lot of really brilliant people around the firm that we call equity partners. So there's about 60 leaning scientists and executives around the world who were also attached to the firm. They actually are, have a financial stake in the firm who work with us. That gives us the ability to be early Now. Clearly, if you put in a $250,000 seed investment you don't put is the same amount of time necessarily as if you just wrote a $12 million check. What? That's the traditional wisdom I found. We actually work. Address this hard on. >>Do you have any? Do you have any formal relationships within the academic institutions? How's that >>work? Well, well, I mean, we work like everybody else with Stanford in M I t. I mean, we have many universities who are limited partners in the fund. You know, I'll give you an example of So we helped put together a company in Canada called Element A I, which actually just raised $150 million they, the founder of that company is Ah, cofounder is a fellow named Joshua Benji. Oh, he was Jeff Hinton's phD student. Him in the Vatican. These guys invented neural networks ing an a I and this company was built at a Yasha his position at the University of Montreal. There, 125 PhDs and a I that work at this firm. And so we're obviously deeply involved. Now, the Montreal A icing, my child is one of the best day I scenes in the world and cool food didn't and oh, yeah, And well, because of you, Joshua, because everybody came out of his leg, right? So I think, Yes, I think so. You know, we've worked with Carnegie Mellon, so we do work with a lot of universities. I would, I would say his university's worked with multiple venture firm Ah, >>such an important pipeline for really smart, heavy duty, totally math and tech tech guys. All right, May, that's for sure. Yeah, you always one that you never want to be the smartest guy in the room, right, or you're in the wrong room is what they say you said is probably >>an equivalent adventure. They always say you should buy the smallest house in the best neighborhood. Exactly. I was able to squeeze its PCB sees. I'm like, the least smart technical guy in the smartest technical. There >>you go. That's the way to go. All right, Alan. Well, thanks for stopping by and we look forward. Thio, you bring in some of these exciting new investment companies inside the key, right? Thanks for the time. Alright. He's Alan. I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube. We're Interpol about the studios. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>> Narrator: Live from San Diego California it's theCUBE covering Cisco Live, US, 2019 brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back we're here at the San Diego convention center for Cisco Live 2019 and you're watching theCUBE the worldwide leader in enterprise tech coverage helping extract the signal from the noise. I'm Stu Miniman we've had three days wall to wall coverage my co-host Dave Vellante and Lisa Martin are all in the house and I'm really excited to actually sit down one on one with one of the users at this user conference the 30th anniversary conference actually for Cisco with their users and partners over 28,000 so speaking for all of them right? We have Sebastien Morissette who's an IT architect specialist at Intact Financial Corporation come to us from beautiful Montreal Canada. >> Exactly. >> All right thank you so much for joining us so Sebastien first of all how many Cisco Lives have you been too? >> Honestly this is my first. >> Oh absolutely exciting for that, my first one I came too was actually 10 years ago I joked at the 20th anniversary they went back 20 years to have some 80's bands they had The Bangles and Devo on and now on the 30 year they moved 10 years forwards they have two great bands from the 90's Wheezer and Foo Fighters so your first time at Cisco Live give us your general impressions of the show. >> Well actually it's been very great I've had a lot of appearances I had to do as well so I got some sessions in I did some work as well so it's amazing to see how these events unfold right? Like the sheer size of this thing and how many people are involved, how many booths how many technical sessions you can have so, I was very pleased I'm here with a lot of people from my team as well from Intact so you know we get the chance to do stuff outside of the work area as well so it's interesting right? It's giving us this opportunity to really deep dive into what we love which is technology but at the same time spend some time together outside of work. >> That's awesome, we've had gorgeous weather here in San Diego hope you definitely get to see the sights before we geek out on some of the technology just give our audience a little bit about Intact and the insurance business but give us a little bit about the history of the company and core focus. >> Okay well Intact is a company that was, they grew as acquisitions with acquisitions we've typically, we were ING Canada back in, before 2010 and afterwards we were publicly traded now so we're Intact Financial Corp. Typically we're the number one PNC insurer in Canada and we've been working with different partners to build our data center 2.0 initiative which is kind of a new offering of you know modern IT services within Intact. >> Okay great and just to, your purview in the company and just the comment about the company is you know when you talk about those transformations you know MNA is something we see a lot in your industry and put some extra special challenges in place when you're doing that but tell us a little bit about what's under your role and scope as to kind of locations, people however you measure you know what, boxes or ports or whatever. >> Okay well you know typically my role is lead architect within the infrastructure and security group for North America Intact through acquisition we actually bought OneBeacon Insurance last year, so typically we now have a US presence as well in specialty insurance, specialty lines so typically whenever we're looking at different technologies we look at the skills sets that we have, we look to see what can be the better half for us to you know accelerate and be more agile in how we actually consume technology so in some cases whatever we're looking at building up these new features like I was talking for data center 2.0 it happens that some of the technologies and the skill sets we have were with Cisco which is why we are here today with the team. >> All right so Sebastien you talk about data center 2.0 and transformation there at the organizational level is it branded data center transformation does the word digital transformation come up in your discussions? >> Yeah data center 2.0 is actually kind of the project name that we've been giving this initiative for the past two years but it really is at the essence a digital transformation, what we're doing is we're typically taking training wheels to the Cloud so we're building an on-prem private Cloud offering with multi-sites so we have three sites in the scope right now and the goal is really to actually allow our business to expand into the Cloud while being in a secure on-prem environment when we get to that maturity level where we feel we're ready to actually really go into public Cloud our software engineering teams our development teams will have experienced it on-prem safely and will have a confidence level to bringing them there so it has been transformational also because we decided to push DevOps culture as far as we can from an infrastructure team so we were trying to get all the adoption from our software engineering folks to actually structure themselves, bring on DevOps team and that we can share with them so they can actually be more agile and get a lot more done without having to depend on us and spend a lot of time waiting for VM's or stuff so trying to accelerate that. >> Awesome I love that 'cause sometimes you hear okay we're going to 2.0 it's basically a fancy refresh but we're going to keep things mostly the same when I hear DevOps I know that culture and organization is something that is a key piece of that, I have to ask you without getting down into the pedantics of this, when you say a private Cloud that's in your data center we understand some of the covenants and reasons what you have but how do you determine whether, what was your guiding line as to how is this a Cloud versus just some new virtualized environment? >> I've had the chance to have great executive sponsorship from my senior vice president typically we were looking at how can we access the Cloud? The way I approached it was overhauling what we do was not the route to go what I asked him to do is say you know trust me I'll start with a clean slate and we will build a brand new landing area for Cloud native applications and new methodologies for modern IT services so typically in the end we didn't overhaul anything that we had we built a brand new sandbox for Intact to be able to work with so we went from disaster recovery to business continuity in that move we've built a three site approach because when I was looking at kind of my capex expenditure if I was building two sites to be fully resilient and be business continuity I would be spending 200% of my capital to actually build up that capacity when you go to three sites it seems awkward but you just need 50% on each site of your capacity to ensure 100% of coverage of your requirements, so in the end you're actually spending 150% of your capacity, or your capex to buy the compute, so there's an incentive there as well. So to answer your question more precisely it's very easy for us to see how it's a Cloud because we're not operating it the same way we're operating our other environment and since we started from scratch every process has been revised we haven't kept everything we had before so we had the chance to build something brand new for that specific offering that our software engineering groups were asking us to do. >> All right that's exciting stuff there when you look at these multi-site deployments I think back in my career and I worked on some of these environments, management, security and networking are absolutely critical, I hear oh okay I've got 50% in each oh my God what if a site gets isolated and I can't talk to those other two so luckily I'm guessing Cisco has something to do with your rollout, we're obviously here at Cisco Live so give us a little bit inside the architecture and especially you know what kind of Cisco pieces are you using? >> All right well you know typically the way that our story started was kind of weird the first thing we've done is we've actually went to Cisco to redesign a DMZ and we got out from Cisco Montreal team with an idea to not just change and buy ACI switches for the DMZ but actually rebuild our whole design to you know integrate ACI into the fabric and then when you start talking about firewalls or switches they tell you well with ACI you have contracts so it really started that way so we built an ACI fabric with the Cisco HyperFlex hyper-converged infrastructure as our compute layer so typically think of it as Intact is building our new version of a software defined data center. So with building that we have all the components so we have the virtualization like you spoke of earlier which is running like you know VMware on site, on top of the HyperFlex and then we have the ACI since we had three sites we topped it off with the multi-site orchestrator to be able to manage consistent policies around all of our three sites and in the end we needed to have an orchestrator to be able to deploy the content onto that and when we were looking at it early on it was Clicker when Cisco purchased Clicker we were looking at finding a Cloud management platform, so we ended up using CloudCenter which is now CloudCenter Suite and in the way we were using it, which was a little atypical from the typical way clients are using CloudCenter today we're taking it into the data center and out to the Cloud whereas when I was talking with Kip Compton earlier this week he was saying you know what sometimes our clients buy it more for the Cloud first and I was like well we have like the inverse story of exactly how we did the opposite but it works as well, so typically where we stand today I have the three sites we're able to deploy with CloudCenter we've got multi-site on top of that and the idea it really is that, I spoke about training wheels earlier well we're taking them off right? In the next couple of weeks we're starting to look into negotiations with public Cloud providers trying to move towards the public Cloud and you know there's exciting news that came out from Cisco this week while I was here about the fact that now you know they're forecasting a lot more collaboration with Microsoft and AWS and now they have all the three major Cloud providers covered with ACI Anywhere so that means all of our security that you were talking about earlier will now have a consistent policy model applied all, everywhere so to be honest I'm not too concerned about if we did a good choice a couple of years back I think we're in our sweet spot right now. >> Yeah and you're right it's a different story than we've generally heard from Cisco and some customers which is I have all of these public Cloud's and I have my data center and I'm looking for some piece to help tie it together and that the CloudCenter Suite is there so you feel you're confident with the platform that you chose and that's going to give you the flexibility as to whichever public Cloud or public Cloud you choose are you at the point there that do you know which public Cloud you're going to be on or maybe it's a little too early? >> Well to be honest you know we're keeping our options open you know we have different providers that are offered, you know the major public one there's Amazon there's Google Cloud we're not closing any options it's really a question of us to do the same secure approach that we've done right now with this offering to really go one at a time make sure that we're able to nail it down, make it secure that we get all the information back so I'm not at a possibility right now to disclose which ones we're dealing with because we're still negotiating but in the end we're not limiting ourselves we just want to be able to scale. >> Right you're confident that the Cisco solution that you choose will give you the flexibility no matter which one you use or if you use multiples or need to make switches along the way? >> Yeah. >> Question I have for you on that is when you look at multi-Cloud one of the things that are challenging for companies is how do I make sure I've got the skillsets because workloads might be portable, networks might be connected but understanding how I manage each of those environments so do you feel CloudCenter Suite's going to help you through that? You know what do you see as you look out over your roadmap as to what that's going to mean for you know your DevOps team and the people managing this environment as it spreads out to the public Cloud? >> Actually I'm feeling really confident because you know especially after seeing a couple of sessions of what Roland Acra and Kip have announced for the data center and for the Cloud piece we're seeing more and more normalization being done by Cisco to actually allow us to be confident in the fact that on prem we're doing ACI and that our policies are going to be mapped to the constructs of the different Cloud providers. So for me what it means is I don't necessarily need to become specialized in how we're going to be operating inside of a Cloud we need to make sure that we get the proper policies built into the different products you know Cisco's branding it the Anywhere right? They have the HX Anywhere the ACI Anywhere and typically that's what we like about it is I can have one consistent set of skillsets and allow the people to use it one thing I found interesting about this week and it's not necessarily to do like more promotion for Cisco is like the Cloud First ACI right? So being able to be starting with ACI in the Cloud I found that was kind of interesting because when you know how the multi-site orchestrator works means apps you build out in the Cloud you're going to be able to to pull back in through the MSO and push it back on prem or anywhere in other Clouds afterwards so I found that was very intuitive of them to go to that route of allowing us to you know transparently migrate apps between sites. >> All right so Sebastien you're using a lot of the latest and greatest from Cisco you talk about the HX the ACI the CloudCenter Suite what advice do you give to your peers out there and they say you know I've used Cisco products for a long time Cisco makes great products but you know simplicity and management across the product lines was something that you know needed some work what does the Cisco of today look like you know what's working well? What still would you like to see them progress on? >> Well you know for us one of the things that was nice like I mentioned earlier is we're typically going greenfield so I didn't have a lot of the issues that other companies might be facing if they're trying to take their brownfield and actually make it into what we've built so my first advice would be if you're able to get the executive sponsorship to build a greenfield environment there's nothing in Cloud native applications that is you know symmetric with the traditional environment of a data center, it's completely different ways of working we have one week sprints we patch everything as it comes out if an application goes into the environment it needs to be functional with that patching cycle of almost every time we're at n or n-1 so, my thing is think about applications as being the center of what you actually need and not the infrastructure, let the infrastructure be what it is because you're going to be anywhere right? So that's one of the things I would say, from what you said about Cisco and the integration you were right, we have lived a couple of items like that in the last two years and a half, however I've noticed that these new software components like CloudShare and everything not necessarily the hardware part Cisco nails hardware like it works they've been doing it for years the thing is with these software teams they're very customer driven we have access to the engineers now I mean we've had meetings with the Canadian execs Roland Acra's team we were able to get access to the developers and the teams here in the US so, every company has challenges I would be lying if I told you that even at Intact we don't have silos and we don't have issues sometimes with different teams managing together but I feel as if at least for the technologies that we're using they've done good work for us to actually help us get through that. >> Well it's interesting Sebastian you bring that up because I look at you say okay, you've got a greenfield environment awesome, we can go do some new tech, well let's throw in there the DevOps and let's change all the other pieces you're like completely overhauling your environment how much of that were there some new team members that came in as part of that or you know I look people, process and technology sounded like you were taking it all on at once, did that work well? Would you have if you looked back would you have changed some of the ordering and maybe you know gotten one piece before the other or did it help to kind of you know start brand new start fresh and get everything going? >> Well I wouldn't redo the part of starting fresh however, it helped us get really good pace and work you know it's our first agile project as an infrastructure group so all of that was great learning experience the only thing I would say is you need to make sure your organization is ready for that level of change because it's one thing to have one VP sponsorship to actually build out this type of approach but where we struggled a little bit was afterwards getting the rest of our IT organization to kind of want to get onboard. because we are building something new, the traditional environment is not disappearing and we're telling our software engineering groups here's a new area where you can play in but you know typically I'd say that it's been well received we have not had the need to build new skillsets because we're doing infrastructure as code so typically a lot of the stuff we're building we're making sure it's automated so that way it's very nice and lean and when we build a new site we have a lot of automation already built in so we can properly just deploy so lessons learned like you've asked me I'd say that typically I'd probably do much of what I did the same way, but I would work a little bit more on the people area just to make sure that the message is clearly understood that what we're building is for the future of Intact and make sure that we spend a little bit more time managing that aspect because for the technology it's fine for the time it took and everything it's fine, it's really people the change is significant to most of them and when you've been doing something for a long time and someone comes up and disrupts it's like if we were disrupting our own company right? So typically I'd say, that would be something that I would say to people manage that properly or you will have a lot more work to do inside of that initiative to actually gain everybody's momentum and get them to be behind you. >> Well Sebastien I really appreciate you walking us through all of your transformation I want to just give you the final word sounds like you've got great access to Cisco really hope you're happy with what you've done final word is to you know your expectations coming into a show like this and you know what your take aways will be from Cisco Live 2019 in San Diego? >> Well outside from the amazing weather you mean or yeah? so you know typically I like the event I've been to other events before, like I said this is my first time at Cisco but what I've seen is that Cisco's really into getting their customers to understand their technology so they're really present so I really liked how you know we were given the opportunity to do hands on labs and actually learn new technologies so typically great experience coming here and great opportunities and thanks so much for having us. >> Well Sebastien Morissette congratulations to your team at Intact and thank you so much for sharing this story. >> Thank you so much. >> All right we've got a little bit more left here of three days wall to wall coverage Cisco Live 2019 in San Diego for Dave Vellante, Lisa Martin I'm Stu Miniman and thanks as always for watching theCUBE. 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>> From Mountain View, California, it's theCUBE covering the 15th annual Grow Awards. Brought to you by ACG SV. >> Hey, Lisa Martin, on the ground with theCUBE at the 15th annual ACG SV Grow Awards, Association for Corporate Growth Silicon Valley, is what that stands for. Can you hear the energy and the innovation going on back here? It's amazing tonight. I'm very pleased to welcome to theCUBE, one of tonight's winners from Arista Technologies Kenneth Duda, the CTO, SVP of software engineering, and one of the founders of Arista Technologies. Kenneth, thank you so much and congratulations! >> Thank you so much, we're honored by the award. >> Well, it's been amazing. Outstanding Growth Award winner, congratulations. I was just looking at some of the recent earnings from Arista, nice Q4 earnings from FY-18. >> Thank you. >> Above the guidance, stock price rising this year. Last month Goldman Sachs added Arista to its conviction buy list. You guys are on nice trajectory, tell me about that. >> Well, it's just been a fantastic journey, you just don't get this many chances to participate in something like Arista from the ground up. Our growth has been driven in no small part thanks to the incredible growth of cloud computing. Cloud computing is changing the world and the cloud data centers need a different kind of network infrastructure. They need something that scales, meet their needs, and is customizable to integrate with all of their management systems, automation, and we've been able to provide that and be part of that journey, it's been incredibly gratifying. >> So you specifically talk with customers a lot, I was reading about one of your recent big wins in Canada, CBC Radio Canada facility in Montreal, but talk to me about what's some of the things now that you're hearing from customers especially those customers who are still in the process of transforming and transitioning workloads to the cloud. What are some of the things that surprise you about where customers are in any industry in this journey. >> Right, well, so I spend most of my time talking to the enterprise customers because there are so many of them and what we've learned there is a couple of things. One is they are very impacted by cloud. Cloud's a big deal, they're moving somewhere closer to the cloud, they're also building their own internal environments in a more cloud-like fashion and, as such, benefit from Arista's approach. But the most interesting thing I've learned is that neither of those is the most important thing. The most important thing is the network has got to work and it might sound strange, but networking gear isn't always reliable and what we've been able to achieve through our architectural approach and through our focus on automated testing has enabled us to produce a higher quality product which has been a major attractor of the enterprise customer. So you need to cover all those bases to succeed in this business. >> You're right, that network is absolutely essential. When anything goes down, whether it's a Facebook outage, it's world news. Tell me, what is the Arista advantage? >> The key advantage is the quality of our products. It's the fact that we have built an architecture that is more resilient to software and hardware errors. It's the way we test. We've made a tremendous investment in automated testing, so that our product has gone through hundreds of thousands of tests before it ever sees a customer. But actually the most important element behind quality, is the culture of your company, what do you believe? What's important to you? What gets you up in the morning? What are you thinking about and talking about to your employees? What's the most important thing, is it profitability? Is it making a deal, is it hitting a schedule? Or is it making sure the network works? We are 100% focused on that and it's been really gratifying to see the impact that's had. >> So last question, and thank you for speaking over the drum noise going on behind us, by the way, to get people into the auditorium. In terms of culture and the impact, what do you think this award means to your peers, your teams at Arista? >> Oh, it's just such an affirmation of the journey we've come through so far and the journey we still have ahead of us. We're very grateful for the award. >> So, I see so much momentum coming into 2019. What are some of the exciting things we can expect from Arista this year that you might be able to share with us? >> I think we're seeing a real transition from network designers focusing on the control plane of their network first to focusing on the management of the network first because management is actually the key to smooth operations. Our cloud vision product addresses that need. We're really excited about that transformation. >> Well, Kenneth, again, congratulations to Arista and yourself and your teams on the Outstanding Growth Award from ACG SV. We also thank you for spending some time with us on theCUBE. >> Thank you very much, it was my pleasure. >> I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching theCUBE. (energetic music)

(electronic music) >> From the heart of Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE! Covering, CloudNOW's 7th Annual Top Women Entrepreneurs in Cloud Innovation Awards. >> Hi, Lisa Martin with theCUBE, on the ground at Facebook headquarters. We're here for the 7th Annual CloudNOW Top Women Entrepreneurs in Cloud Innovation Awards. Our third time covering this event, and we're excited to welcome to theCube, one of tonight's winners, Masha Sedova, the co-founder of Elevate Security. Masha, welcome to theCUBE! >> Lisa, thank you so much for having me, it's really great to be here. >> And congratulations on the award. >> Thank you, thank you. >> So you are a security expert, you studied, you were a STEM kid back in school, but you had this really interesting experience when you were at Salesforce a few years ago, related to security, where you went, I think I see one of the things people have been missing where cyber security is concerned. Tell us about that aha moment. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, having grown up in the security field, there's this saying that, the human is the weakest link. And I personally never believed that, and I was like, there's got to be a way of turning this around and so, I stepped back and said, What it would look like if people wanted to do security instead of had to? What it would look like if people were champions for security, and not because we made them do it, but because each of us were invested in it? And so, I took a step back from my Computer science and computer security background, and dove into the field of behavioral science, positive psychology, and game design. And started exploring how people think, and how we make decisions, to see if I can start applying that to security. And, would you know it, there's some really amazing findings that I came across in that space. >> So you were saying, before we went on that, a pretty significant percentage of breaches are, unfortunately, caused by us humans. >> Yeah, something like 95% have a human error related to it. And if you think about cyber attacks, it's a human being attacking another human being with a bunch of technology in the middle. And if we keep solving it with just technology we're going to keep ending up making the same mistakes we have been making for decades. But if we look at the human element, and why we make mistakes, and how we let ourselves learn from them and make better mistakes and also better choices, we can actually move the needle in a really significant way. >> So, Elevate Security co-founded just a couple of years ago. Really impressive with your board. Tell us about your leadership team and the board before we get into the significance of the name. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, it's co-founded by myself and my co-founder Robert Fly. So, we have a diverse founding team. And from the very beginning we believed that embracing our diversity, in our hires would be of significant differentiator and not just the way we hire, but also the way we build our product. Because we're building products for employees of a whole bunch of companies all over the world and so it was really important to us. And so, to date we're 50% women including our engineering team and we have an all outside female board, board of directors which is a fact I'm really excited to announce today. >> Excited and proud. So when you had this idea, (clears throat) excuse me, and clearly all of the data show that, like you said if we keep throwing technology at the problem with security we're not going to solve it. >> Yeah >> What were the conversations like as a female co-founder, going in and trying to get funding for this idea in something as, hot of a topic and sensitive as cyber security? >> Yeah, you know, it was challenging. Fundraising, I think if you ask any founder you'd say, it would be challenging. I would recommend anybody going into this know your stuff, and stand up behind it, know that you have experience and an idea or a brand, that brings you to the table, brings something to the table and that you have that behind you. So, just because several VCs might say no it doesn't mean that your idea's not worth fighting for or coming to life. And so, it took us a while but we found a fantastic set of venture partners to back us who had very similar philosophies in the way they both raise money and supported entrepreneurship and it's really exciting, exciting time to be have partnered with them. >> So, one of the things you mentioned before went on was the card that your mom gave you. >> Yeah. >> I think that's so inspiring and share that with our audience for those who might have a great idea like you did but say, I keep being told no. >> Yeah, just 'cause it's hard, doesn't mean it's not worth doing. If I, were to have gotten to the end of my life and I didn't try starting a company, I knew that I was always regret it. And, that is something I definitely couldn't live with. And, the card that my mom sent me, it was in late in 2016 it said, "A ship is safe in the harbor "but that is not what ships are built for." And I realized, I had to do this. I absolutely had to start this company, I had to see where it goes and I have a unique perspective and a unique set of experiences in the world. And ideas about how this really hard problem can be solved and I want to see it come to life. And I have had the opportunity to gather an amazing team around me to help me make that vision come to life and I'm really excited to see where it goes. >> So in terms of where it's going, humans are sensitive people. >> (chuckles) Yeah. >> When you're talking with companies, >> Yeah. >> Whether they're born in the cloud companies or legacy enterprise companies and you're saying, Hey, guys it's your people, we're all human. >> Yeah. >> From a cultural response. >> Yeah. >> What's that conversation like do they understand it? And how do you help them go from those really, like we were talking about boring-- >> Yeah. >> Videos and training tutorials to actually, impacting behavior? >> Mm hmm Yeah, so there's two schools of thought in security field. It's the people who believe that human element can't be solved, that humans will always make mistakes, so we need to throw as much technology at it as possible. We've been doing that for three decades and it hasn't worked. And honestly I'm waiting for that generation to move on until we get a new set of ideas in. And what I'm seeing is the up and coming, set of security leadership coming in saying, You know what? Let's try something new, let's try something different. And, you know, I have invested in technology and it hasn't solved it. What if we try a different approach? And, the thing is, security people aren't known for our human expertise. We're good at a lot of other things, but not human expertise, and so bringing in things like behavioral science which is known for understanding how and why we make decisions is a perfect combination to solve this problem that, to date has been unsolvable. Because we really haven't been bringing in expertise outside of our field which on the topic of diversity, is exactly what we need. >> Exactly. So what are you looking forward to as we are just about in the finishing the first month of 2019? >> Oh yeah so, we'll be at RSA at the end of February, early March speaking about our brand new product Snapshot. But I'm also really excited to continue hiring out our team. We are hiring tons of engineers, so if anyone is looking please-- >> Where can they go? >> Elevatesecurity.com. >> Elevatesecurity.com. >> Mm Hmm, yeah, and so continuing to build out our team in San Francisco and in Montreal. >> Well Masha, congratulations on the award, on this really innovative idea bringing in, behavior to security. We appreciate your time and look forward to seeing more of what you guys are about to do. >> Thank you so much. >> Congratulations. We want to thank you for watching theCUBE, I'm Lisa Martin on the ground at Facebook. See you next time. 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[Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to the special cube conversations here in Palo Alto cube studios I'm John Ferrier the founder of Silicon angle in the cube we're here with divest cargoes the founder and CEO of arcus Inc our curse com ar-are see us calm and Steve Herod General Partner at at General Catalyst VCU's funded him congratulations on your launch these guys launched on Monday a hot new product software OS for networking powering white boxes in a whole new generation of potentially cloud computing welcome to this cube conversation congratulations on your >> launch thank you John >> so today I should talk about this this >> startup when do you guys were founded let's get to the specifics date you were founded some of the people on the team and the funding and we were formally incorporated in February of 2016 we really got going in earnest in August of 2016 and have you know chosen to stay in stealth the the founding team consists of myself a gentleman by the name of Kop tell he's our CTO we also have a gentleman by the name of Derek Young he's our chief architect and our backgrounds are a combination of the semiconductor industry I spent a lot of time in the semiconductor industry most recently I was president of easy chip and we sold that company to Mellanox and Kher and Derek our networking protocol experts spent 20 plus years at places like Cisco and arguably some of the best protocol guys in the world so the three of us got together and basically saw an opportunity to to bring some of the insights and and architectural innovation you know we had in mind to the Mobius a pedigree in there some some top talent absolutely some of the things that they've done in the past from some notable yeah I mean you know some if you if you'd like some just high-level numbers we have 600 plus years of experience of deep networking expertise within the company our collective team has shipped over 400 products to production we have over 200 IETF RFC papers that have been filed by the team as well as 150 plus patents so we really can do something on the pedigree for sure yeah we absolutely focused on getting the best talent in the world because we felt that it would be a significant differentiation to be able to start from a clean sheet of paper and so really having people who have that expertise allowed us to kind of take a step back and you know reimagine what could be possible with an operating system and gave us the benefit of being able to you know choose >> best-in-class approaches so what's the >> cap the point that this all came >> together what was the guiding vision was it network os's are going to be cloud-based was it going to be more I owe t what was the some of the founding principles that really got this going because clearly we see a trend where you know Intel's been dominating we see what NVIDIA is doing competitively certainly on the GPU side you're seeing the white box has become a trend Google makes their own stuff apples big making their own silicon seeking the that's kind of a whole big scale world out there that has got a lot of hardware experience what was the catalyst for you guys when you found this kinda was the guiding principle yeah I would say there were three John and you hit you hit on a couple of them in your reference to Intel and NVIDIA with some of the innovation but if I start at the top level the market the networking market is a large market and it's also very strategic and foundational in a hyper-connected world that market is also dominated by a few people and there's essentially three vertically integrated OEM so that dominate that market and when you have that type of dominance it leads to ultimately high prices and muted innovations so we felt number one the market was going through tremendous change but at the same time it had been tightly controlled by a few people the other part of it was that there was a tremendous amount of innovation that was happening at the silicon component level coming from the semiconductor industry I was early at Broadcom very you know involved in some of the networking things that happened in the early stages of the company we saw tremendous amounts of innovation feature velocity that was happening at the silicon component level that in turn led to a lot of system hardware people coming into the market and producing systems based on this wide variety of choices for you know for the silicon but the missing link was really an operating system that would unleash all that innovation so Silicon Valley is back Steve you you know you're a VC now but you were the CTO at VMware one of the companies that actually changed how data centers operate certainly as it certainly as a pretext and cloud computing was seeing with micro services and the growth of cloud silicon's hot IT operations is certainly being decimated as we old knew it in the past everything's being automated away you need more function now there's a demand this is this penny how you see I mean you always see things are a little early as of technologist now VC what got you excited about these guys what's the what's the bottom line yeah maybe two points on that which so one silicon is is definitely become interesting again if you will in the in the Silicon Valley area and I think that's partly because cloud scale and web scale allows these environments where you can afford to put in new hardware and really take advantage of it I was a semiconductor I first austerity too so it's exciting for me to see that but um you know is the fish that it's kind of a straightforward story you know especially in a world of whether it's cloud or IOT or everything networking is you know like literally the core to all of us working going forward and the opportunity to rethink it in a new design and in software first mentality felt kind of perfect right now I think I I think device even sell the team a little short even is with all the numbers that are there kr for instance this co-founder was sort of everyone you talk to will call him mister BGP which is one of the main routing protocols in the internet so just a ridiculously deep team trying to take this on and there been a few companies trying to do something kind of like this and I think what do they say that the second Mouse gets the cheese and I think I think we've seen some things that didn't work the first time around and we can really I think improve on them and have a >> chance to make a major impact on the networking market you know just to kind of go on a tangent here for a second >> because you know as you're talking kind of my brain is kind of firing away because you know one of things I've been talking about on the cube a lot is ageism and if you look at the movement of the cloud that's brought us systems mindset back you look at all the best successes out there right now it's almost a old guys and gals but it's really systems people people who understand networking and systems because the cloud is an operating system you have an operating system for networking so you're seeing that trend certainly happened that's awesome the question I have for you device is what is the difference what's the impact of this new network OS because I'm almost envisioning if I think through my mind's eye you got servers and server list certainly big train seeing and cloud it's one resource pools one operating system and that needs to have cohesiveness and connectedness through services so is this how you guys are thinking about how are you guys think about the network os what's different about what you guys are doing with ARC OS versus what's out there today now that's a great question John so in terms of in terms of what we've done the the third piece you know of the puzzle so to speak when we were talking about our team I talked a little bit about the market opportunity I talked a little bit about the innovation that was happening at the semiconductor and systems level and said the missing link was on the OS and so as I said at the onset we had the benefit of hiring some of the best people in the world and what that gave us the opportunity was to look at the twenty plus years of development that had happened on the operating system side for networking and basically identify those things that really made sense so we had the benefit of being able to adopt what worked and then augment that with those things that were needed for a modern day networking infrastructure environment and so we set about producing a product we call it our Co s and the the characteristics of it that are unique are that its first of all its best-in-class protocols we have minimal dependency on open source protocols and the reason for that is that no serious network operator is going to put an open source networking protocol in the core of their network they're just not going to risk their business and the efficacy and performance of their network for something like that so we start with best-in-class protocols and then we captured them in a very open modular Services microservices based architecture and that allows us the flexibility and the extensibility to be able to compose it in a manner that's consistent with what the end-use case is going to be so it's designed from the onset to be very scalable and very versatile in terms of where it can be deployed we can deploy it you know in a physical environment we can deploy it visa via a container or we could deploy it in the cloud so we're agnostic to all of those use case scenarios and then in addition to that we knew that we had to make it usable it makes no sense to have the best-in-class protocols if our end customers can't use them so what we've done is we've adopted open config yang based models and we have programmable api's so in any environment people can leverage their existing tools their existing applications and they can relatively easily and efficiently integrate our Co s into their networking environment and then similarly we did the same thing on the hardware side we have something that we call D pal it's a data plane adaptation layer it's an intelligent how and what that allows us to do is be Hardware agnostic so we're indifferent to what the underlying hardware is and what we want to do is be able to take advantage of the advancements in the silicon component level as well as at the system level and be able to deploy our go S anywhere it's let's take a step back so you guys so the protocols that's awesome what's the value proposition for our Co S and who's the target audience you mentioned data centers in the past is a data center operators is it developers is it service providers who was your target customer yeah so so the the piece of the puzzle that wraps everything together is we wanted to do it at massive scale and so we have the ability to support internet scale with deep routing capabilities within our Co s and as a byproduct of that and all the other things that we've done architectural II were the world's first operating system that's been ported to the high-end Broadcom strata DNX family that product is called jericho plus in the marketplace and as a byproduct of that we can ingest a full internet routing table and as a byproduct of that we can be used in the highest end applications for network operators so performance is a key value public performance as measured by internet scale as measured by convergence times as measured by the amount of control visibility and access that we provide and by virtue of being able to solve that high-end problem it's very easy for us to come down so in terms of your specific question about what are the use cases we have active discussions in data center centric applications for the leaf and spine we have active discussions for edge applications we have active discussions going on for cloud centric applications arcus can be used anywhere who's the buyer those network operator so since we can go look a variety of personas network operator large telco that's right inner person running a killer app that's you know high mission-critical high scale is that Mike right yeah you're getting you're absolutely getting it right basically anybody that has a network and has a networking infrastructure that is consuming networking equipment is a potential customer for ours now the product has the extensibility to be used anywhere in the data center at the edge or in the cloud we're very focused on some of the use cases that are in the CDN peering and IP you know route reflector IP peering use cases great Steve I want to get your thoughts because I say I know how you invest you guys a great great firm over there you're pretty finicky on investments certainly team check pedigrees they're on the team so that's a good inside market tamp big markets what's the market here for you but how do you see this market what's the bet for you guys on the market side yeah it's pretty pretty straightforward as you look at the size of the networking market with you know three major players around here and you know a longer tail owning a small piece of Haitian giant market is a great way to get started and if you believe in the and the secular trends that are going on with innovation and hardware and the ability to take advantage of them I think we have identified a few really interesting starting use cases and web-scale companies that have a lot of cost and needs in the networking side but what I would love about the software architecture it reminds me a lot of things do have kind of just even the early virtualization pieces if you if you can take advantage of movement in advantages and hardware as they improve and really bring them into a company more quickly than before then those companies are gonna be able to have you know better economics on their networking early on so get a great layer in solve a particular use case but then the trends of being able to take advantage of new hardware and to be able to provide the data and the API is to programmatic and to manage it who one would that it's creative limp limitless opportunity because with custom silicon that has you know purpose-built protocols it's easy to put a box together and in a large data center or even boxes yeah you can imagine the vendors of the advances and the chips really love that there's a good company that can take advantage of them more quickly than others can so cloud cloud service refined certainly as a target audience here large the large clouds would love it there's an app coming in Broadcom as a customer they a partner of you guys in two parts first comes a partner so we we've ported arc OS onto multiple members of the Broadcom switching family so we have five or six of their components their networking system on chip components that we've ported to including the two highest end which is the jericho plus and you got a letter in the Broadcom buying CA and that's gonna open up IT operations to you guys and volge instead of applications and me to talk about what you just said extensibility of taking what you just said about boxes and tying applique and application performance you know what's going to see that vertically integrated and i think i think eloping yeah from from a semiconductor perspective since i spent a lot of time in the industry you know one of the challenges i had founded a high court count multi processor company and one of the challenges we always had was the software and at easy chip we had the world's highest and network processor challenge with software and i think if you take all the innovation in the silicon industry and couple it with the right software the combination of those two things opens up a vast number of opportunities and we feel that with our Co s we provide you know that software piece that's going to help people take advantage of all the great innovation that's happening you mentioned earlier open source people don't want to bring open source at the core the network yet the open source communities are growing really at an exponential rate you starting to see open source be the lingua franca for all developers especially the modern software developers wine not open sourcing the core the amino acids gotta be bulletproof you need security obviously answers there but that seems difficult to the trend on open source what's the what's the answer there on why not open source in the core yeah so we we take advantage of open source where it makes sense so we take advantage of open and onl open network Linux and we have developed our protocols that run on that environment the reason we feel that the protocols being developed in-house as opposed to leveraging things from the open source community are the internet scale multi-threading of bgp integrating things like open config yang based models into that environment right well it's not only proven but our the the the capabilities that we're able to innovate on and bring unique differentiation weren't really going back to a clean sheet of paper and so we designed it ground-up to really be optimized for the needs of today Steve your old boss Palmer rich used to talk about the harden top mmm-hmm similar here right you know one really no one's really gonna care if it works great it's under the under the harden top where you use open source as a connection point for services and opportunities to grow that similar concept yes I mean at the end of the day open source is great for certain things and for community and extensibility and for visibility and then on the flip side they look to a company that's accountable and for making sure it performs and as high quality and so I think I think that modern way for especially for the mission critical infrastructure is to have a mix of both and to give back to community where it makes sense to be responsible for hardening things are building them when they don't expense so how'd you how'd you how'd you land these guys you get him early and don't sit don't talk to any other VCS how did it all come together between you guys we've actually been friends for a while which has been great in it at one point we actually decided to ask hey what do you actually do I found that I was a venture investor and he is a network engineer but now I actually have actually really liked the networking space as a whole as much as people talk about the cloud or open source or storage being tough networking is literally everywhere and will be everywhere and whatever our world looks like so I always been looking for the most interesting companies in that space and we always joke like the investment world kind of San Francisco's applications mid here's sort of operating systems and the lower you get the more technical it gets and so well there's a vaccine I mean we're a media company I think we're doing things different we're team before we came on camera but I think media is undervalued I wrote just wrote a tweet on that got some traction on that but it's shifting back to silicon you're seeing systems if you look at some of the hottest areas IT operations is being automated away AI ops you know Auto machine learning starting to see some of these high-end like home systems like that's exactly where I was gonna go it's like the vid I I especially just love very deep intellectual property that is hard to replicate and that you can you know ultimately you can charge a premium for something that is that hard to do and so that's that's really something I get drugs in the deal with in you guys you have any other syndicates in the video about soda sure you know so our initial seed investor was clear ventures gentleman by the name of Chris rust is on our board and then Steve came in and led our most recent round of funding and he also was on the board what we've done beyond that institutional money is we have a group of very strategic individual investors two people I would maybe highlight amongst the vast number of advisers we have our gentleman by the name of Pankaj Patel punka JH was the chief development officer at Cisco he was basically number two at Cisco for a number of years deep operating experience across all facets of what we would need and then there's another gentleman by the name of Amarjeet Gill I've been friends with armored teeth for 30 years he's probably one of the single most successful entrepreneurs in the he's incubated companies that have been purchased by Broadcom by Apple by Google by Facebook by Intel by EMC so we were fortunate enough to get him involved and keep him busy great pedigree great investors with that kind of electoral property and those smart mines they're a lot of pressure on you as the CEO not to screw it up right I mean come on now get all those smart man come on okay you got it look at really good you know I I welcome it actually I enjoy it you know we look when you have a great team and you have as many capable people surrounding you it really comes together and so I don't think it's about me I actually think number one it's about I was just kidding by the way I think it's about the team and I'm merely a spokesperson to represent all the great work that our team has done so I'm really proud of the guys we have and frankly it makes my job easier you've got a lot of people to tap for for advice certainly the shared experiences electively in the different areas make a lot of sense in the investors certainly yeah up to you absolutely absolutely and it's not it's not just at the at the board it's just not at the investor level it's at the adviser level and also at you know at our individual team members when we have a team that executes as well as we have you know everything falls into place well we think the software worlds change we think the economics are changing certainly when you look at cloud whether it's cloud computing or token economics with blockchain and new emerging tech around AI we think the world is certainly going to change so you guys got a great team to kind of figure it out I mean you got a-you know execute in real time you got a real technology play with IP question is what's the next step what is your priorities now that you're out there congratulations on your launch thank you in stealth mode you got some customers you've got Broadcom relationships and looking out in the landscape what's your what's your plan for the next year what's your goals really to take every facet of what you said and just scale the business you know we're actively hiring we have a lot of customer activity this week happens to be the most recent IETF conference that happened in Montreal given our company launch on Monday there's been a tremendous amount of interest in everything that we're doing so that coupled with the existing customer discussions we have is only going to expand and then we have a very robust roadmap to continue to augment and add capabilities to the baseline capabilities that we brought to the market so I I really view the next year as scaling the business in all aspects and increasingly my time is going to be focused on commercially centric activities right well congratulations got a great team we receive great investment cube conversation here I'm John furry here the hot startup here launching this week here in California in Silicon Valley where silicon is back and software is back it's the cube bringing you all the action I'm John Fourier thanks for watching [Music]

>> From Boston, Massachusetts, it's the cube. covering LiveWorx 18, brought to you by PTC. (upbeat music) >> Welcome back to the Boston Seaport everybody. My name is David Vellante, I'm here with my co-host Stu Miniman and you're watching the cube, the leader in live tech coverage. We're at LiveWorx PTC's big IOT conference. Jaron Lanier is here, he's the father of virtual reality and the author of Dawn of the New Everything. Papa, welcome. >> Hey there. >> What's going on? >> Hey, how's it going? >> It's going great. How's the show going for you? It's cool, it's cool. It's, it's fine. I'm actually here talking about this other book a little bit too, but, yeah, I've been having a lot of fun. It's fun to see how hollow lens applied to a engines and factories. It's been really cool to see people seeing the demos. Mixed reality. >> Well, your progeny is being invoked a lot at the show. Everybody's sort of talking about VR and applying it and it's got to feel pretty good. >> Yeah, yeah. It seems like a VR IoT blockchain are the sort of the three things. >> Wrap it all with digital transformation. >> Yeah, digital transformation, right. So what we need is a blockchain VR IoT solution to transform something somewhere. Yeah. >> So tell us about this new book, what it's called? >> Yeah. This is called the deleting all your social media accounts right now. And I, I realize most people aren't going to do it, but what I'm trying to do is raise awareness of how the a psychological manipulation algorithms behind the system we're having an effect on society and I think I love the industry but I think we can do better and so I'm kind of agitating a bit here. >> Well Jaron, I was reading up a little bit getting ready for the interview here and people often will attack the big companies, but you point at the user as, you know, we need to kind of take back and we have some onus ourselves as to what we use, how we use it and therefore can have impact on, on that. >> Well, you know, what I've been finding is that within the companies and Silicon Valley, a lot of the top engineering talent really, really wants to pursue ethical solutions to the problem, but feels like our underlying business plan, the advertising business plan keeps on pulling us back because we keep on telling advertisers we have yet new ways to kind of do something to tweak the behaviors of users and it kind of gradually pulls us into this darker and darker territory. The thing is, there's always this assumption, oh, it's what users want. They would never pay for something the way they pay for Netflix, they would never pay for social media that way or whatever it is. The thing is, we've never asked users, nobody's ever gone and really checked this out. So I'm going to, I'm kind of putting out there as a proposition and I think in the event that users turn out to really want more ethical social media and other services by paying for them, you know, I think it's going to create this enormous sigh of relief in the tech world. I think it's what we all really want. >> Well, I mean ad-based business models that there's a clear incentive to keep taking our data and doing whatever you want with it, but, but perhaps there's a better way. I mean, what if you're, you're sort of proposing, okay, maybe users would be willing to pay for various services, which is probably true, but what if you were able to give users back control of their data and let them monetize their data. What are your thoughts on that? >> Yeah, you know, I like a lot of different solutions, like personally, if it were just up to me, if I ran the world, which I don't, but if I ran the world, I can make every single person of the world into a micro-entrepreneur where they can package, sell and price their data the way they want. They can, they can form into associations with others to do it. And they can also purchase data from others as they want. And I think what we'd see is this flowering of this giant global marketplace that would organize itself and would actually create wonders. I really believe that however, I don't run the world and I don't think we're going to see that kind of perfect solution. I think we're going to see something that's a bit rougher. I think we might see something approximating that are getting like a few steps towards that, but I think we are going to move away from this thing where like right now if two people want to do anything on online together, the only way that's possible is if there's somebody else who's around to pay them, manipulate them sneakily and that's stupid. I mean we can be better than that and I'm sure we will. >> Yeah, I'm sure we will too. I mean we think, we think blockchain and smart contracts are a part of that solution and obviously a platform that allows people to do exactly what you just described. >> And, and you know, it's funny, a lot of things that sounded radical a few years ago are really not sounding too radical. Like you mentioned smart contracts. I remember like 10 years ago for sure, but even five years ago when you talked about this, people are saying, oh no, no, no, no, no, this, the world is too conservative. Nobody's ever going to want to do this. And the truth is people are realizing that if it makes sense, you know, it makes sense. And, and, and, and so I think, I think we're really seeing like the possibilities opening up. We're seeing a lot of minds opening, so it's kind of an exciting time. >> Well, something else that I'd love to get your thoughts on and we think a part of that equation is also reputation that if you, if you develop some kind of reputation system that is based on the value that you contribute to the community, that affects your, your reputation and you can charge more if you have a higher reputation or you get dinged if you're promoting fake news. That that reputation is a linchpin to the successful community like that. >> Well, right now the problem is because, in the free model, there's this incredible incentive to just sort of get people to do things instead of normal capitalist. And when you say buy my thing, it's like you don't have to buy anything, but I'm going to try to trick you into doing something, whatever it is. And, and, and if you ever direct commercial relationship, then the person who's paying the money starts to be a little more demanding. And the reason I'm bringing that up is that right now there's this huge incentive to create false reputation. Like in reviews, a lot of, a lot of the reviews are fake, followers a lot of them are fake instance. And so there's like this giant world of fake stuff. So the thing is right now we don't have reputation, we have fake reputation and the way to get real reputation instead of think reputation is not to hire an army of enforcing us to go around because the company is already doing that is to change the financial incentives so you're not incentivizing criminals, you know I mean, that's incentives come first and then you can do the mop up after that, but you have to get the incentives aligned with what you want. >> You're here, and I love the title of the book. We interviewed James Scott and if you know James Scott, he's one of the principals at ICIT down PTC we interviewed him last fall and we asked him, he's a security expert and we asked them what's the number one risk to our country? And he said, the weaponization of social media. Now this is, this is before fake news came out and he said 2020 is going to be a, you know, what show and so, okay. >> Yeah, you know, and I want to say there's a danger that people think this is a partisan thing. Like, you know, if you, it's not about that. It's like even if you happen to support whoever has been on, on the good side of social media manipulation, you should still oppose the manipulation. You know, like I was, I was just in the UK yesterday and they had the Brexit foot where there was manipulation by Russians and others. And you know, the point I've made over there is that it's not about whether you support Brexit or not. That's your business, I don't even have an opinion. It's not, I'm an American. That's something that's for somebody else. But the thing is, if you look at the way Brexit happened, it tore society apart. It was nasty, it was ugly, and there have been tough elections before, but now they're all like that. And there was a similar question when the, the Czechoslovakia broke apart and they didn't have all the nastiness and it's because it was before social media that was called the velvet divorce. So the thing is, it's not so much about what's being supported, whatever you think about Donald Trump or anything else, it's the nastiness. It's the way that people's worst instincts are being used to manipulate them, that's the problem. >> Yeah, manipulation denial is definitely a problem no matter what side of the aisle you're on, but I think you're right that the economic incentive if the economic incentive is there, it will change behavior. And frankly, without it, I'm not sure it will. >> Well, you know, in the past we've tried to change the way things in the world by running around in outlying things. For instance, we had prohibition, we outlawed, we outlawed alcohol, and what we did is we created this underground criminal economy and we're doing something similar now. What we're trying to do is we're saying we have incentives for everything to be fake, everything to be phony for everything to be about manipulation and we're creating this giant underground of people trying to manipulate search results or trying to manipulate social media feeds and these people are getting more and more sophisticated. And if we keep on doing this, we're going to have criminals running the world. >> Wonder if I could bring the conversation back to the virtual reality. >> Absolutely. >> I'm sorry about that. >> So, but you know, you have some concerns about whether virtual reality will be something you for good or if it could send us off the deep end. >> Oh yeah, well. Look, there's a lot to say about virtual reality. It's a whole world after all. So you can, there is a danger that if the same kinds of games are being played on smartphones these days were transferred into a virtual reality or mixed reality modalities. Like, you could really have a poisonous level of mind control and I, I do worry about that I've worried about that for years. What I'm hoping is that the smartphone era is going to force us to fix our ways and get the whole system working well enough so that by the time technologies like virtual reality are more common, we'll have a functional way to do things. And it won't, it won't all be turned into garbage, you know because I do worry about it. >> I heard, I heard a positive segment on NPR saying that one of the problems is we all stare at our phones and maybe when I have VR I'll actually be talking to actual people so we'll actually help connections and I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that. >> Well, you know, most of the mixed reality demos you see these days are person looking at the physical world and then there's extra stuff added to the physical world. For instance, in this event, just off camera over there, there's some people looking at automobile engines and seeing them augmented and, and that's great. But, there's this other thing you can do which is augmenting people and sometimes it can be fun. You can put horns or wings or long noses or something on people. Of course, you still see them with the headsets all that's great. But you can also do other stuff. You can, you can have people display extra information that they have in their mind. You can have more sense of what each other are thinking and feeling. And I actually think as a tool of expression between people in real life, it's going to become extremely creative and interesting. >> Well, I mean, we're seeing a lot of applications here. What are some of your favorites? >> Oh Gosh. Of the ones right here? >> Yes. >> Well, you know, the ones right here are the ones I described and I really like them, there's a really cool one of some people getting augmentation to help them maintain and repair factory equipment. And it's, it's clear, it's effective, it's sensible. And that's what you want, right? If you ask me personally what really, a lot of the stuff my students have done, really charms me like up, there was just one project, a student intern made where you can throw virtual like goop like paint and stuff around in the walls and it sticks and starts running down and this is running on the real world and you can spray paint the real world so you can be a bit of a juvenile delinquent basically without actually damaging anything. And it was great, it was really fun and you know, stuff like that. There was this other thing and other student did where you can fill a whole room with these representations of mathematical objects called tensors and I'm sorry to geek out, but you had this kid where all these people could work together, manipulating tensors and the social environment. And it was like math coming alive in this way I hadn't experienced before. That really was kind of thrilling. And I also love using virtual reality to make music that's another one of my favorite things, >> Talk more about that. >> Well, this is something I've been doing forever since the '80s, since the '80s. I've been, I've been at this for awhile, but you can make an imaginary instruments and play them with your hands and you can do all kinds of crazy things. I've done a lot of stuff with like, oh I made this thing that was halfway between the saxophone and an octopus once and I'll just >> Okay. >> all this crazy. I love that stuff I still love it. (mumbling) It hasn't gotten old for me. I still love it as much as I used to. >> So I love, you mentioned before we came on camera that you worked on minority report and you made a comment that there were things in that that just won't work and I wonder if you could explain a little bit more, you know, because I have to imagine there's a lot of things that you talked about in the eighties that, you know, we didn't think what happened that probably are happening. Well, I mean minority report was only one of a lot of examples of people who were thinking about technology in past decades. Trying to send warnings to the future saying, you know, like if you try to make a society where their algorithms predicting what'll happen, you'll have a dystopia, you know, and that's essentially what that film is about. It uses sort of biocomputer. They're the sort of bioengineered brains in these weird creatures instead of silicon computers doing the predicting. But then, so there are a lot of different things we could talk about minority report, but in the old days one of the famous VR devices which these gloves that you'd use to manipulate virtual objects. And so, I put a glove in a scene mockup idea which ended up and I didn't design the final production glove that was done by somebody in Montreal, but the idea of putting a glove a on the heroes hand there was that glove interfaces give you arm fatigue. So the truth is if you look at those scenes there physically impossible and what we were hoping to do is to convey that this is a world that has all this power, but it's actually not. It's not designed for people. It actually wouldn't work in. Of course it kind of backfired because what happened is the production designers made these very gorgeous things and so now every but every year somebody else tries to make the minority report interface and then you discover oh my God, this doesn't work, you know, but the whole point was to indicate a dystopian world with UI and that didn't quite work and there are many other examples I could give you from the movie that have that quality. >> So you just finished the book. When did this, this, this go to print the. >> Yeah, so this book is just barely out. It's fresh from the printer. In fact, I have this one because I noticed a printing flaw. I'm going to call the publisher and say, Oh, you got to talk to the printer about this, but this is brand new. What happened was last year I wrote a kind of a big book of advert triality that's for real aficionados and it's called Dawn of the new everything and then when I would go and talk to the media about it they'd say, well yeah, but what about social media? And then all this stuff, and this was before it Cambridge Analytica, but people were still interested. So I thought, okay, I'll do a little quick book that addresses what I think about all that stuff. And so I wrote this thing last year and then Cambridge Analytica happened and all of a sudden it's, it seems a little bit more, you know, well timed >> than I could have imagined >> Relevant. So, what other cool stuff are you working on? >> I have to tell you something >> Go ahead. >> This is a real cat. This is a black cat who is rescued from a parking lot in Oakland, California and belongs to my daughter. And he's a very sweet cat named Potato. >> Awesome. You, you're based in Northern California? >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Awesome And he was, he was, he was an extra on the set of, of the Black Panther movie. He was a stand-in for like a little mini black panthers. >> What other cool stuff are you working on? What's next for you? >> Oh my God, there's so much going on. I hardly even know where to begin. There's. Well, one of the things I'm really interested in is there's a certain type of algorithm that's really transforming the world, which is usually called machine learning. And I'm really interested in making these things more transparent and open so it's less like a black box. >> Interesting. Because this has been something that's been bugging me you know, most kinds of programming. It might be difficult programming, but at least the general concept of how it works is obvious to anyone who's program and more and more we send our kids to coding camps and there's just a general societal, societal awareness of what conventional programming is like. But machine learning has still been this black box and I view that as a danger. Like you can't have society run by something that most people feel. It's like this black box because it'll, it'll create a sense of distrust and, and, I think could be, you know, potentially quite a problem. So what I want to try to do is open the black box and make it clear to people. So that's one thing I'm really interested in right now and I'm, oh, well, there's a bunch of other stuff. I, I hardly even know where to begin. >> The black box problem is in, in machine intelligence is a big one. I mean, I, I always use the example I can explain, I can describe to you how I know that's a dog, but I really can't tell you how I really know it's a dog. I know I look at a dog that's a dog, but. Well, but, I can't really in detail tell you how I did that but it isn't AI kind of the same way. A lot of AI. >> Well, not really. There's, it's a funny thing right now in, in, in the tech world, there are certain individuals who happen to be really good at getting machine language to work and they get very, very well paid. They're sort of like star athletes. But the thing is even so there's a degree of almost like folk art to it where we're not exactly sure why some people are good at it But even having said that, we, it's wrong to say that we have no idea how these things work or what we can certainly describe what the difference is between one that fails and that's at least pretty good, you know? And so I think any ordinary person, if we can improve the user interface and improve the way it's taught any, any normal person that can learn even a tiny bit of programming like at a coding camp, making the turtle move around or something, we should be able to get to the point where they can understand basic machine learning as well. And we have to get there. All right in the future, I don't want it to be a black box. It doesn't need to be. >> Well basic machine learning is one thing, but how the machine made that decision is increasingly complex. Right? >> Not really it's not a matter of complexity. It's a funny thing. It's not exactly complexity. It has to do with getting a bunch of data from real people and then I'm massaging it and coming up with the right transformation so that the right thing spit out on the other side. And there's like a little, it's like to me it's a little bit more, it's almost like, I know this is going to sound strange but it's, it's almost like learning to dress like you take this data and then you dress it up in different ways and all of a sudden it turns functional in a certain way. Like if you get a bunch of people to tag, that's a cat, that's a dog. Now you have this big corpus of cats and dogs and now you want to tell them apart. You start playing with these different ways of working with it. That had been worked out. Maybe in other situations, you might have to tweak it a little bit, but you can get it to where it's very good. It can even be better than any individual person, although it's always based on the discrimination that people put into the system in the first place. In a funny way, it's like Yeah, it's like, it's like a cross between a democracy and a puppet show or something. Because what's happening is you're taking this data and just kind of transforming it until you find the right transformation that lets you get the right feedback loop with the original thing, but it's always based on human discrimination in the first place so it's not. It's not really cognition from first principles, it's kind of leveraging data, gotten from people and finding out the best way to do that and I think really, really work with it. You can start to get a two to feel for it. >> We're looking forward to seeing your results of that work Jared, thanks for coming on the cube. You're great guests. >> Really appreciate it >> I really appreciate you having me here. Good. Good luck to all of you. And hello out there in the land that those who are manipulated. >> Thanks again. The book last one, one last plug if I may. >> The book is 10 arguments for deleting your social media accounts right now and you might be watching this on one of them, so I'm about to disappear from your life if you take my advice. >> All right, thanks again. >> All right. Okay, keep it right there everybody. We'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. You're watching the cube from LiveWorx in Boston. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Vancouver, Canada it's theCUBE covering OpenStack Summit North America 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat, the OpenStack Foundation, and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. I'm Stu Miniman here with my cohost here John Troyer. And we're at the OpenStack Summit 2018, here in Vancouver. One of the key topics we've been discussing, actually for a few years but under new branding, and it's really matured a bit is Edge Computing. So, we're really happy to welcome to the program two first time guests. We have Arturo Suarez, who's a program director with Canonical. We also have first time Kontron employee on, Eric Sarault, who's a product manager of software and services with, I believe Montreal based, is the headquarters. >> That's correct. >> Stu: So, thank you for allowing all of us to come up to Canada and have some fun. >> It's a pleasure. >> But we were all working during Victoria Day, right? >> Yeah. >> All right. Arturo, we know Canonical. So, we're going to talk about where you fit in. But, Eric, let's start with Kontron. I've got a little bit of background with them. I worked in really kind of the TelCo space back in the 90s. But for people that don't know Kontron maybe give us some background. So, basically, the entity here today is representing the communications business unit. So, what we do on that front is mostly TelCo's service providers. We also have strong customer base in the media vertical. But right now the OpenStack, what we're focusing on, is really on the Edge, mixed messages as well. So, we're really getting about delivering the true story about Edge because everybody has their own version of Edge. Everybody has their own little precisions about it. But down the road, it's making sure that we align everyone towards the same messaging so that we deliver a unified solution so that everybody understands what it is. >> Yeah. So, my filter on this has been Edge depends who you are. If you're a telecommunications vendor, when we've talked about the Cohen, it's the Edge of where they sit. If I'm an enterprise, it's the Edge is more like the IOT devices and sometimes there's an aggregation box in between. So, there's somewhere between two and four Edges out there. It's like cloud. We spent a bunch of years discussing it and then we just put the term to the side and go things. When you're talking Edge at Kontron, what does that mean? You actually have devices. >> We do. >> So, who's your customer? What does the Edge look like? >> So, we do have customers on that front. Right now we're working with some big names out there. Basically delivering solutions for 12 inch depth racks at the bottom of radio towers or near cell sites. And ultimately working our way up closer to what would look like, what I like to call a "closet" data center, if you will. Where we also have a platform with multiple systems that's able to be hosted in the environment. So, that's really about not only having one piece of the equation but really being able to get closer to the data center. >> All right. And Arturo, help bring us in because we know Canonical's a software company. What's the Edge mean to your customers and where does Canonical fit? >> So, Canonical, we take pride of being an ubiquitous platform, right? So, it doesn't matter where the Edge, or what the Edge is, right? There is an Ubuntu platform. There is an Ubuntu operating system for every single domain of compute, going from the very end of the Edge. That device that sits on your house or that drone that is flying around. And you need to do some application businesses, or to post on application businesses with, all the way to the core rank. Our OpenStack story starts at the core. But it's interesting as it goes farther from that core, how the density, it's an important factor in how you do things, so. We are able, with Kontron, to provide an operating system and tooling to tackle several of those compute domains that are part of the cloud where real estate is really expensive, right. >> Eric, so you all are a systems developer? Is that a fair two-word phrase? It's hardware and software? >> Basically, we do our original design. >> Okay. I know where I am. >> Manufacturing. >> So, I'm two steps away from hardware. So, I think of those as all systems. But you build things? >> Eric: Correct. >> And you work with software. I think for folks that have been a little more abstract, you tend to think, "Well, in those towers, there must be some bespoke chips and some other stuff but nothing very sophisticated." At this point we're running, or that your customers are running, full OpenStack installations on your system hardware. >> Eric: Correct. >> That's in there and it's rugged and it's upgradable. Can you talk a little bit about the business impact, of that sort of thing, as you go out and work with your customers? >> Certainly. So, one of the challenges that we saw there was really that, from a hardware perspective, people didn't really think about making sure that, once the box is shipped, how do you get the software on it, right. Typically, it's a push and forget approach. And this is where we saw a big gap, that it doesn't make any sense for folks to figure that on their own. A lot of those people out there are actually application developers. They don't have the networking background. They don't have a hardware engineering background. And the last thing they want to be doing is spending weeks, if not months, figuring out how to deploy OpenStack, or Kubernetes, or other solutions out there. So, that's where we leverage Canonical's tools, including MAAS and Juju, to really deploy that easily, at scale, and automated. Along with packaging some documentation, some proper steps on how to deploy the environment quickly in a few hours instead of just sitting there scratching your head and trying to figure it out, right. Because that's the last thing they want. The minute they have the box in their hand they already want to consume the resources and get up and running, so. That's really the mission we want to tackle that you're not going to see from most hardware vendors out there. >> Yeah, it's interesting. We often talk about scale, and our term, it's a very different scale when you talk about how fast it's deployed. We're not talking about tens or hundreds of thousands of cores for one environment. It's way more distributed. >> Yeah. It's a different type of scale. It's still a scale but the building block is different, right. So, we take the orders of magnitude more of points of presence than there are data centers, right. At that scale, and the farther you go again from the core, the larger the scale it is. But the building block is different. And the ability to play, the price of the compute is different. It goes much higher, right? So, going back again, that ability to condense in OpenStack, the ability to deliver a Kubernetes within that little space, is pretty unique, right? And while we're still figuring out what technology goes on the Edge, we still need to account for, as Eric said, the economics of that Edge play a big, big part of that gain, right. So, there is a scale, it's in the thousands of points of presence, in the hundreds of thousands of points of presence, or different buildings where you can put an Edge cloud, or the use-case are still being defined, but it's scaled on a different building block. >> Well, Arturo, just to clarify for myself, sometimes when you're looking at an OpenStack component diagram, there's a lot of components and I don't know how many nodes I'm going to have to run. And they're all talking to each other. But at the Edge, even though there's powerful hardware there, there's an overhead consideration, right? >> Yes. Absolutely and that's going to be there. And OpenStack might evolve but might not evolve. But this is something we are tackling today, right. That's why I love the fact that Kontron has also a Kubernetes cluster, right. That multi-technology, the real multi-cloud is a multi-technology approach to the Edge, right. There are all the things that we can put in the Edge and the access is set. It's not defined. We need to know exactly how much room you have, how you make the most out of each of your cores or each of the gigs of RAM out there. So, OpenStack obviously is heavy for some parts of the Edge. Kontron, with our help, has pushed that to the minimum Openstack viable that allows you not to roll a track when you need to do something on that location, right. As that is as effective as it can get today. >> Eric, can you help put this in a framework of cloud, in general. When I think of Edge, a lot of it data's going to need to go back to data centers or a public cloud, multiple public cloud providers. How do your customers deal with that? Are you using Kubernetes to help them span between public cloud and the Edge? >> So, it's a mix of both. Right now we're doing some work to see how you can utilize idle processing time, along with Kubernetes scheduling and orchestration capabilities. But also OpenStack really caters to the more traditional SDNN of the use-case out there to run your traditional applications. So, that's two things that we get out of the platform. But it's also understanding how much data do you want to go back to the data center and making sure that most of the processing is as close as possible. That goes along with 5G, of course. You literally don't have the time to go back to the data centers. So, it's really about putting those capabilities, whether it's FPGAs, GPUs, and those platform, and really enabling that as close as possible to the Edge, or the end user, should I say. >> Eric, I know you're in the carrier space. Can you talk a little, maybe Kontron in general? And maybe how you, in your career as you go the next decades looking at imbed-able technology everywhere, and what do you all see as the vision of where we're headed? >> Oh, wow. That's a hell of a question. >> That's a big question to throw on you. >> I think it's very interesting to see where things are going. There's a lot of consolidation. And you have all these opensource project that needs to work together. The fact that OpenStack is embracing the reality that Kubernetes is going to be there to drive workloads. And they're not stepping on each others' throat, not even near. So, this is where the collaboration, between what we're seeing from the OpenStack Foundation along with the projects from the Linux Foundation, this is really, really interesting to see this moving forward. Other projects upcoming, like ONAP and Akraino, it's going to be very interesting for the next 24 months, to see what it's going to shape into. >> One of the near things, you mentioned 5G and we've been watching, what's available, how that roll-out's going to go into the various pieces. Is this ecosystem ready for that? Going to take advantage of it? And how soon until it is real for customers? >> The hardware is ready. That's for sure. It's really going to be about making sure if you have a split environment that's based on X86, or a split with ARM, it's going to be about making sure that these environments can interact with each other. The service chaining is probably the most complicated aspect there is to what people want to be doing there. And there's a bit of a tie, rope-pulling, from one side to another still but it's finally starting to put in to play. So, I think that the fact that Akraino, which is going to bring a version of OpenStack within the Linux Foundation, this is going to be really unlocking the capabilities that are out there to deploy the solution. And tying along with that, with hardware that has a single purpose, that's able to cater all the use-cases, and not just think about one vertical. "And then this box does this and this other box does another use-case." I think that's the pitfall that a lot of vendors fallen into. Instead of just, "Okay, for a second think outside the box. How many applications could you fit in this footprint?" And there probably going to be big data and multiple use-cases, that are nowhere near each other. So, don't try to do this very specific platform and just make sure that you're able to cater pretty much everyone. It's probably going to do the job, right, so. >> There's over 40 sessions on Edge Computing here. Why don't we just give both of you the opportunity to give us a closing remarks on the importance of Edge, what you're seeing here at the show, and final takeaways. >> From our side, from the Canonical side again, the Edge is whatever is not core. That really has different domains of compute. There is an Ubuntu for each of one of those domains. As Eric mentioned, this is important because you have a common platform, not only in the hardware perspective or the orchestrating technologies and their needs, which are evolving fast. And we have the ability, because how we are built, to accommodate or to build on all of those technologies. And be able to allow developers to choose what they want to do or how they want to do it. Try and try again, in different types of technologies and finally get to that interesting thing, right. There is that application layer that still needs to be developed to make the best use out of the existing technologies. So, it's going to be interesting to see how applications and the technologies evolve together. And we are in a great position as a common platform to all of those compute domains on all of those technologies from the economical perspective. >> On our side, what we see, it's really about making sure it's a density play. At the Edge, and the closer you go to these more wild environments, it's not data centers with 30 kilowatts per rack. You don't have the luxury of putting in, what I like to call whiteboards, 36 inch servers or open-compute systems. So, we really want to make sure that we're able to cater to that. We do have the products for it along with the technologies that Canonical are bringing in on that front. We're able to easily roll-out multiple types of application for those different use-cases. And, ultimately, it's all going to be about density, power efficiency, and making sure that your time to production with the environment is as short as possible. Because the minute they'll want access to that platform, you need to be ready to roll it out. Otherwise, you're going to be lagging behind. >> Eric and Arturo, thanks so much for coming on the program and giving us all the updates on Edge Computing here. For John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman. Back with lots more coverage here from OpenStack Summit 2018 in Vancouver. Thanks for watching theCUBE. (exciting music)

>> Announcer: From New York, it's theCube covering Blockchain Week. Now here's John Furrier. (uptempo techno music) >> Hello everyone, welcome back. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCube. We're here in New York City for Blockchain Week New York as well as Consensus 2018. You're watching theCube. We've got two great guests here. Cube alumni Al Burgio has been on many times. Hot start ups, Digitalbits. He's got a great project, and it's really getting a lot of traction. Been there before, fellow entrepreneur. He's got big news and he's with Jaime Leverton, general manager, VP in Canada and APAC for Cogeco Peer 1. Saw the press release, congratulations Al. >> Thank you, thank you John. >> Jaime, welcome to New York. >> Thank you very much. >> So Al, talk about the deal that you did with these guys. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> News went out so what's significant about it? >> I think it's very significant to the Blockchain space. In a lot of respect it's very powerful technology that a lot of people speak of when it comes to distributed ledger technology. But in some respects with regards to let's say certain industry it's still just starting to work its way into the space. We basically are trying to drive innovation at multiple levels, and we can achieve that with the support of great partners like Cogeco Peer 1. I'll let Jaime explain what they do, but from a partnership perspective. You can think of what we've created at Digitalbits really is this open source technology that we want many people to consume, not just consumers but the enterprises, SaaS companies and so forth. So a lot of those companies live in Cogeco data centers worldwide. And so they're a natural partner for us. They are a company we always see in the forefront of innovation, and they're doing it with Blockchain. So really excited to have them as a partner. >> Jaime, I want you to take a minute to explain what you guys do, and how that fits into Blockchain. >> I think it fits in incredibly well. So for those of you not familiar with Cogeco Peer 1. We own and operate a global network, so we have our own connectivity, as well as 16 data centers globally. We have our own private cloud. We partner with the hyperscale public clouds. We have managed hosting, co-location. We work with 6500 enterprise customers around the world who live in our data centers or on our networks. And we really believe that Blockchain is the future, and there is no better place for it to live than an infrastructure like ours. >> Cloud computing was always poo-poo. Oh cloud computing, no one will ever give up their data centers and hosting and cloud came together. But that drove a lot of growth. The same thing is happening now with these networks. You're seeing Blockchain needs to run on something. Just like the old argument was cloud is going to kill the server business. Well servers still need to be bought. So blockchain needs to run somewhere. >> Absolutely. >> On servers. >> Yeah. >> So some decentralized servers but some big ones too. >> Right. >> Is that how you see it? Is it actually what I'm seeing happening out here? >> That is exactly how we see it, and I feel very blessed for the infrastructure that we built. The reputation that we have in this industry which is literally perfectly poised to support web 3.0 and everything that is coming. Starting with partnerships like this. >> Al, I want to get your thoughts about. You know the networking business. You've done a couple start ups in the area and trends. You've done all that stuff. You guys just did some news out there where they're spinning up. Something we saw what happen with Stellar. >> Yeah. >> Okay, can you explain this nuance point 'cause it's an inside baseball geeky thing. >> Yeah. >> But it's really significant for the industry. >> Well at the end of the day, everyone is talking about enterprise adoption, enterprise adoption. But as we've just discussed. The enterprise today, the hardware is not their possession anymore. And so, they don't need to be the only organization to be able to support what the enterprise wants us to do or even a SaaS company. Many, in fact the majority SaaS companies don't manage their own hardware either. And they're relying on cog dividers to provide that compute storage and so forth. So there needs to be that proficiency. And almost like a standard, and not necessarily one. Let's say Linux is a standard. Windows is, there's different flavors of Linux. There's database technologies and so on. But whichever they're choosing to use. It needs to be supported at every layer of that digital supply chain. And we are basically, we see that. >> John: Yeah. >> And we're working with partners at every level there. The ones that we know get it. Really understand compute and network. 'Cause it's very important. >> We're in the hallway here. We're in the middle of the floor here at Consensus. So we've been hearing a lot of hallway chatter. And I always like to eavesdrop, being the journalist reporter guy that I try to be, as you know. But I hear a lot of things. One thing I heard all week consistently is that I'm going to spin up some Blockchain nodes. So it reminds me of the old days of spinning up clusters. Like storage clusters. So this notion of spinning up a Blockchain cluster I've heard or I've heard provisioning clusters or what does that mean? To spin up a Blockchain. Is it that trend that we're seeing? >> If it is a primitive Blockchain. Bitcoin for example, it's the grandfather of all let's say blockchains that we're familiar with or this era is familiar with. It does a few things. Processes transactions, anybody could spin up one and what have you, but if you want to take something and make it enterprise great. There needs to be APIs. You need to be able to know how to integrate. Consume those APIs and so forth. And so not every company is going to know how to do this. There's a gap. There's a shortage of Blockchain engineers. There's a shortage of engineers period that understand this stuff. So it has to be supported. It has to be supported. There needs to be companies that can support the enterprise to consume those. So spinning up is easy for an engineer that's efficient in Blockchain to say. Yeah, we're spinning up nodes. We're going to take our work really hard. Purchase hardware, deploy it, ship it many, many, many months. Maybe they'll use Amazon if that's well suited for them or some other platform provider like Cogeco or what have you. But the challenge is what's everyone else going to do? If they're not proficient at technology, they need partners that get it. And that's where managed cloud comes in, and that's where we're very focused. >> So what does this mean for Digitalbits and your project? I'm just trying to squint through it. It's nerdy, geeky stuff but I like it. It's networking but now you got a project called Digitalbits. You got some horsepower with the Cogeco deal, so you spin up Blockchain I can imagine. What does it mean for the Digitalbits project and the impact of what you're trying to do? >> It's an open source project, and from our perspective, we want to see many, many enterprises, and many, many SaaS and other organizations use this technology. It's not going to just happen. You don't just build it and they will come. So you need strategic partners that see the value in it. Whether directly or through lines of business that they have. And co-evangelizing this technology and supporting the enterprise and their consumption. And so again, partners like Cogeco really help us create that new standard of technology that they can consume and it becomes mainstream this way. >> Jaime, what's your take on this? Obviously you did a deal with these guys. What was the benefit of you doing it? Also your customers moving in the direction of having a decentralized application set of infrastructure to provide power the next generation. Why this deal? Why these guys? >> I think when we look at who we partner with and build out our ecosystem. It's really about the relationship with the individuals behind it. We're very much about trust. We've worked with Al before. We believe in his vision. We know that he goes at projects with passion and integrity. And ultimately the reason we did this with Digitalbits is because we believe in what Al's doing, and his track record. >> Well he knows technology. He's also been a successful entrepreneur. >> And he understands networks, sorry to jump in, but really understanding that the power of the cloud is only as good as the power of the network. And the closer you can bring those things together that's where the magic really happens, and no one understands that better than Al. And when you look to build that Blockchain going forward, that's what you need. That's the power that you have to be able to harness, and we don't have to educate him. Jaime, you've been doing a lot of innovative things. We were just talking before we came on camera. You got an innovation award last night in Ottawa. You couldn't make it down for the big party we had last night. >> I'm sorry I missed that party. >> With Jeff Besos' brother. It's really, really cool. What are you doing at innovative that you can share. I love what you're doing. It's great work. What are some of the innovation things that you're proud of that you can take a moment to share? >> We've partnered a lot with the incubators in Canada. So really working with start ups, next generations technology, supporting the people that we think are going to build the future. So that's where we put all of our attention as oppose to on a traditional large enterprise focus. Our focus is NextGen emerging incubators. We've had a lot of success in the gaming industry with artificial intelligence, which is really booming in Canada. Ottawa, Montreal and Toronto are creating incredible new companies focused on AI. A lot of them are partnered with us in our data centers and using our technologies. So really I just see us continuing to push further and further as the industry moves. We want to be there moving with it. >> Are you going to be on the Canadian boat tonight I call it the Canadian--? >> Yes, I'm going to be on the Canadian boat tonight. >> The Do-rio yacht. >> That's right, yes. Hopefully the rain subsides, but yeah I'll be on the boat. >> Great, thanks for coming on. I really appreciate it. Al, congratulations on the news. Big news from Digitalbits open source project. Gaining steam, really disrupting the old loyalty platforms as one of its used cases. Check it out at Digitalbits. Any URL you want to share Al for the project? Digitalbits.io. You're watching theCube. I'm John Furrier, your host here in New York all week for Blockchain Week. Thanks for watching. (uptempo techno music)

>> Announcer: From Milpitas, California, at the edge of Silicon Valley, it's the Cube, covering autonomous vehicles. Brought to you by Western Digital. >> Hey, welcome back here ready, Jeff Frick here with the Cube. We're at Western Digital's office in Milpitas, California at the Autotech Council Autonomous Vehicle event. About 300 people talking about all the various problems that have to be overcome to make this thing kind of reach the vision that we all have in mind and get beyond the cute. Way more cars driving around and actually get to production fleet, so a lot of problems, a lot of opportunity, a lot of startups, and we're excited to have our next guest. He's Dave Tokic, the VP of Marketing and Strategic Partnerships from Algolux. Dave, great to see you. >> Great, thank you very much, glad to be here. >> Absolutely, so you guys are really focused on a very specific area, and that's about imaging and all the processing of imaging and the intelligence out of imaging and getting so much more out of those cameras that we see around all these autonomous vehicles. So, give us a little bit of the background. >> Absolutely, so, Algolux, we're totally focused on driving safety and autonomous vision. It's really about addressing the limitations today in imaging and computer vision systems for perceiving much more effectively and robustly the surrounding environment and the objects as well as enabling cameras to see more clearly. >> Right, and we've all seen the demo in our twitter feeds of the chihuahua and the blueberry muffin, right? This is not a simple equation, and somebody like Google and those types of companies have the benefit of everybody uploading their images, and they can run massive amounts of modeling around that. How do you guys do it in an autonomous vehicle, it's a dynamic situation, it's changing all the time, there's lots of different streets, different situations. So, what are some of the unique challenges, and how are you guys addressing those? >> Great, so, today, for both 8S systems and autonomous driving, the companies out there are focusing on really the simpler problems of being able to properly recognize an object or an obstacle in good conditions, fair weather in Arizona, or Mountain View or Tel Aviv, et cetera. But really the, we would live in the real world. There's bad weather, there is low light, there's lens issues, lens dirty, and so on. Being able to address those difficult issues is not really being done well today. There's difficulties in today's system architectures to be able to do that. We take a very different, novel approach to how we process and learn through deep learning the ability to do that much more robustly and much more accurately than today's systems. >> How much of that's done kind of in the car, how much of it's done where you're building your algorithms offline and then feeding them back into the car, how does that loop kind of work? >> Great question, so the objective for this, we're deploying on, is the intent to deploy on systems that are in the car, embedded, right? We're not looking to the cloud-based system where it's going to be processed in the cloud and the latency issues and so on that are a problem. Right now, it's focused on the embedded platform in the car, and we do training of the datasets, but we take a novel approach with training as well. We don't need as much training data because we augmented it with very specific synthetic data that understands the camera itself as well as taking in the difficult critical cases like low light and so on. >> Do you have your own dedicated camera or is it more of a software solution that you can use for lots of different types of inbound sensors? >> Yeah, what we have today is, we call it, CANA. It is a full end-to-end stack that starts from the sensor output, so say, an imaging sensor or a path to fusion like LIDAR, radar, et cetera, all the way up to the perception output that would then be used by the car to make a decision like emergency braking or turning or so on. So, we provided that full stack. >> So perception is a really interesting word to use in the context of a car, car visioning and computer vision cause it really implies a much higher level of understanding as to what's going, it really implies context, so how do you help it get beyond just identifying to starting to get perception so that you can make some decisions about actions. >> Got it, so yeah, it's all about intelligent decisions and being able to do that robustly across all types of operating conditions is paramount, it's mission critical. We've seen recent cases, Uber and Tesla and others, where they did not recognize the problem. That's where we start first with is to make sure that the information that goes up into the stack is as robust and accurate as possible and from there, it's about learning and sharing that information upstream to the control stacks of the car. >> It's weird cause we all saw the video from the Uber accident with the fatality of the gal unfortunately, and what was weird to me on that video is she came into the visible light, at least on the video we saw, very, very late. But ya got to think, right, visible light is a human eye thing, that's not a computer, that's not, ya know, there are so many other types of sensors, so when you think of vision, is it just visible light, or you guys work within that whole spectrum? >> Fantastic question, really the challenge with camera-based systems today, starting with cameras, is that the way the images are processed is meant to create a nice displayed image for you to view. There are definite limitations to that. The processing chain removes noise, removes, does deblurring, things of that nature, which removes data from that incoming image stream. We actually do perception prior to that image processing. We actually learn how to process for the particular task like seeing a pedestrian or bicyclist et cetera, and so that's from a camera perspective. It gives up quite the advantage of being able to see more that couldn't be perceived before. We're also doing the same for other sensing modalities such as LIDAR or radar and other sensing modalities. That allows us to take in different disparate sort of sensor streams and be able to learn the proper way of processing and integrating that information for higher perception accuracy using those multiple systems for sensor fusion. >> Right, I want to follow up on kind of what is sensor fusion because we hear and we see all these startups with their self-driving cars running around Menlo Park and Palo Alto all the time, and some people say we've got LIDAR, LIDAR's great, LIDAR's expensive, we're trying to do it with just cameras, cameras have limitations, but at the end of the day, then there's also all this data that comes off the cars are pretty complex data receiving vehicles as well, so in pulling it all together that must give you tremendous advantages in terms of relying on one or two or a more singular-type of input system. >> Absolutely, I think cameras will be ubiquitous, right? We know that OEMs and Tier-1s are focused heavily on camera-based systems with a tremendous amount of focus on other sensing modalities such as LIDARs as an example. Being able to kit out a car in a production fashion effectively and commercially, economically, is a challenge, but that'll, with volume, will reduce over time, but doing that integration of that today is a very manually intensive process. Each sensing mode has its own way of processing information and stitching that together, integrating, fusing that together is very difficult, so taking an approach where you learn through deep learning how to do that is a way of much more quickly getting that capability into the car and also providing higher accuracy as the merged data is combined for the particular task that you're trying to do. >> But will you system, at some point, kind of check in kind of like the Teslas, they check in at night, get the download, so that you can leverage some of the offline capabilities to do more learning, better learning, aggregate from multiple sources, those types of things? >> Right, so for us, the type of data that would be most interesting is really the escapes. The things where the car did not detect something or told the driver to pay attention or take the wheel and so on. Those are the corner cases where the system failed. Being able to accumulate those particular, I'll call it, snips of information, send that back and integrate that into the overall training process will continue to improve robustness. There's definitely a deployed model that goes out that's much more robust than what we've seen in the market today, and then there's the ongoing learning to then continue to improve the accuracy and robustness of the system. >> I think people so underestimate the amount of data that these cars are collecting in terms of just the way streets operate, the way pedestrians operate, but whether there's a incident or not, they're still gathering all that data and making judgements and identifying pedestrians, identifying bicyclists and capturing what they do, so hopefully, the predictiveness will be significantly better down the road. >> That's the expectation, but like numerous studies have said, there's a lot of data that's collected that's just sort of redundant data, so it's really about those corner cases where there was a struggle by the system to actually understand what was going on. >> So, just give us kind of where you are with Algolux, state of the company, number of people, where are ya on your lifespan? >> Algolux is the startup based in Montreal with offices in Palo Alto and Munich. We have about 26 people worldwide, most of them in Montreal, very engineering heavy these days, and we will continue to do so. We have some interesting forthcoming news that please keep an eye out for of accelerating what we're doing. I'll just hint it that way. The intent really is to expand the team to continue to productize what we've built and start to scale out, to engage more of the automotive companies we're working with. We are engaged today at the Tier-2, Tier-1, and OEM levels in automotive, and the technology is scalable across other markets as well. >> Pretty exciting, we look forward to watching, and you're giving it the challenges of real weather unlike the Mountain View guys who we don't really deal with real weather here. (laughing) >> There ya go. (laughing) Fair enough. >> All right Dave, well, thanks for taking a few minutes out of your day, and we, again, look forward to watching the story unfold. >> Excellent, thank you, Jeff. >> All right. >> All right, appreciate it. >> He's Dave, I'm Jeff, you're watching the Cube. We're are Western Digital in Milpitas at Autotech Council Autonomous Vehicle event. Thanks for watching, we'll catch ya next time.

>> Narrator: Live from Munich, Germany it's theCUBE, covering IBM, fast track your data. brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to Munich, Germany everybody. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise, and we're here at the IBM signature moment, Fast Track Your Data in Munich, where enterprise data governance is a huge theme. We're going to talk about that right now, I'm Dave Vellante with my co-host, Jim Kobielus. Sanjay Saxena is here, he's the senior Vice-President at Northern Trust. Sanjay, welcome to theCUBE, thanks for coming on. >> Thank you, thank you, thanks for having me. >> So, enterprise data governance is a huge theme here, we're going to get into that, but set up Northern Trust, your organization, and your role. >> So, I am the head for enterprise data governance for Northern Trust. It's an essential enterprise role across all the business units. I've been working with Northern Trust for the last three years to set up the program, and prior to this I worked with Bank of Montreal and other institutions doing similar things. >> So how is enterprise governance evolving? I mean, I go back to, sort of, 2006 for the federal rules of civil procedure when electronic, you know, records became admissible in courts, and that set off a whole chain reaction, and plugging the holes with email archiving, and it was just really scratching the surface. We've kind of evolved there, is governance a strategic imperative? Why is it a strategic imperative? And how is it evolving? >> Well, our program has significantly evolved over the past three years. Partly because of how the market conditions are, and what the regulators expect. We fundamentally started our program focused on regulations, risk and compliance, like most banks did. But now we are a very broad based program within the company. So not just a risk department or the finance department, but also the business units are asking for data governance and for quality. And we are in the asset management, asset servicing business. And a lot of our customers, we manage their data. So they are expecting this as stable stakes at this point in time. So we are realizing a lot of value of the data governance in the business units as well, in addition to the risk and compliance usage. >> So how has governance evolved? I mean I went back ten, eleven years which is like ancient history in these days. How has your, sort of, data governance strategy evolved, and where has it come from, and where are you now, and where are you going? >> So, about two to four years back there wasn't anything formal when it comes to governance, it was very specific to certain units of data, certain types of data. For example, most companies are very concerned about the pricing data. And that's where they would have governance. But it was never a broad based program. Nor was there an operating model around governance and organization, structure, teams of people, so over the past three or four years we've seen that evolution. So now I have a number of data stewards as part of my team, and within the business units, whose sole business is to do governance. We have formally establishing data governance principles and practices and policies. Years back, even three years back, you'd go to most organizations you wouldn't find any policies and practices of data governance. So those are two distinct ways that the governance has evolved in terms of the model. And also along with that has been an evolution of tools and technology and where IBM has heard this a lot. >> Generally the line of business people, you know, governance, compliance, even security, and it's changing but, generally if I hear those words as a business person, it's ugh, it's going to slow me down, it's going to cost me time, it's going to cost me money, bureaucracy overhead. How do you as a governance professional address that? Can you make governance a source of value? >> Right, so governance is a very abstract concept. Most people, most businesses, don't want they want to run away from anything close to governance, right? >> Dave: No accountability. >> No accountability, right? They want to be focused on their revenues, etc. So one way to make that, and what we've done is we've made it very tangible by showing them data quality in terms of metrics, in terms of dashboards, in terms of showing them cost of poor data quality, right? In terms of, for example, a simple example is, a customer names an address as being wrong, may not mean very much to a regulator, but it is really important from a business perspective for a relationship manager in our business. So what we've done is shown that to them and shown positive trending towards the mediation and tied it to the business outcomes. So I wouldn't say that we are there yet, it's a journey, but there's been a lot of evolution in the process, they are accepting my organization, they are accepting the roles, and they are accepting the work we're doing. And they want to be part of it. So that's how I see them evolve, I see this as a continuous evolvement even beyond that. And ultimately I see them using governance almost as a product. Right now it's, we provide a lot of data to our end consumers, to our asset management, to management companies, to fund administrators, and others, right? And data governance is an implicit component of that, right? We don't charge money for it, right? But in the world of the future I see that, depending on the tier of the customer, depending on the kind of data that we're supplying them, we can have different tiers of data quality and governance around that, and we could explicitly charge. So they're excited about that project, about that prospect, and they want to work with us on that. >> And you, do you have a chief data officer? >> Sanjay: Yes. >> Okay, so, is it a relatively new role? Or it's been around, I mean typically in your industry it's regulated and so you tend to have more propensity for CDOs, but has there been one for a while, or a couple years? >> Sanjay: It's been around for two years. >> Just two years? Okay. >> Sanjay: Yeah, two plus years, yes. >> Okay, so that chief data officer that emergent role, looks at things like data quality, looks at how to monetize data, tries to form relationships with the line of business, all those things. Companies generally are just starting to understand, all right, how do I, how does data effect my monetization? Not so much how do I sell the data, but how does data help my cut costs or increase revenue? >> Yeah, well, or, yeah, related to that very much is, for example, do you compute a metric such as customer lifetime value that you would sacrifice if you don't, if your business doesn't consolidate multiple inconsistent customer data sets down to one canonical data set that you can use then to, high quality, that you can use to drive targeting marketing, and better engagement. Do you report like a CLV, customer lifetime value, as part of your overall governance strategy or thought about doing that? >> We've thought about doing that, and those metrics are evolving in our organization, but even a little bit more basic metrics around is your customer contactable, right? Do you have the right information about them? Or, for the share of the wallet, is it actually a better example? Like we have different investment products, and we have different products that we sell to our wealthy individuals. What portion of those, what is the average number of products that they have from us? And to be able to monitor, and measure it, across a meter of time, is a really important thing for businesses to do. >> Okay, let's, I see your button here, your badge here, it says IBM analytics, global elite, I think there was a little reception last night by the lake, and you know, all the execs took you guys out and wined and dined you and, you know, that's good. We saw that action going on. But so, what is that mean, a global elite? So that means you're a top-tier customer, what's your relationship with IBM, and how has that evolved? >> Right, so yeah, so North Interest buys a lot of stuff from IBM, lot of technology, tools, consulting, so we are, we are one of the top tier customers, and that's why we are part of the global elite program. And our relationship has really really evolved over time, especially in the governance base I'm talking about, and IBM has been a significant partner for us in terms of the initial strategy around governance, which we implemented and we are still on track to get that fully implemented. Equally important is the tools and technologies that they brought into the space. So most of the vendors provide segregated tools for different portions of data governance. You'll find some people good in lineators, good in meta data, glossary, etc. But IBM has an end to end suite, and we've been able to integrate that, we've been able to make it a single solution, single integrated solution, and that's really benefited us. So that's really been the contribution of IBM. >> And, okay, so can you talk more about the business impact about that single integrated solution? >> So the business impact is that today, unlike ever in the past, we have data quality dashboards. And this is, we are measuring data quality across thousands of data attributes on a monthly basis. We are publishing trends around data quality. We have that, we are also, for people, developers, for business people who are interested in where the data is coming from, we have lineage, we have an enterprise glossary. So it's a one stop solution across all of those. The business people are able to look at that, whether it's risk, finance, or business units, they're able to look at that on a monthly basis. We're able to provide implications of quality, we provide trending, so it is really taking us towards making us a data driven organization. >> Have you been a user, at least a beta-user of the governance catalog that IBM has announced today? What are your thoughts about that? >> Yes, so the information governance catalog we've been using that for the last three years. We have, as I said, about several thousand data elements in the information governance catalog. And what that does is, it creates that single vocabulary within the bank, and you cannot even imagine how difficult that is. Because for two business units to agree on the meaning of a term, it requires a lot of discussions and deliberations. But having a one simple repository that has all of the meta-data is one aspect of it. The second thing is, which has got implications in terms of data security and protection, that we are able to tag the data as sensitive data. For example, for GDPR, so we are using the same tool to be able to tag sensitive data elements and, as I said, the whole lineage, where does it reside, where does the data flow into, all of those things are very very easy and have been implemented in the IGC. >> Sanjay, what would you say is your biggest challenge as an enterprise data governance professional? >> Team management is still the biggest challenge, it is. As I said, it's a journey. And getting to every individual in the enterprise, for example, to start using this glossary that I just talked about. Or getting people to systematically look at data quality across the board. The other piece is the funding around data initiatives, right? So everyone's used to large transformation programs, but when I come up with a list of, here are the top ten data quality issues that need to be fixed, everybody looks over everybody else's shoulder I guess, and says, who's going to pay for it, right? And is this really our problem, or is this the problem of somebody else, right? So we get into a lot of those discussions, but it's a journey, as I said. >> Well, so you need executive support. To get executive support you have to demonstrate how it drives business values. So that's where it's, there's some carrot and stick involved. Well the stick is, well, we got to comply. We've heard a lot about GDRP and how that's going to, you know, cause pain. Okay, so that's the stick. The carrot is the data monetization, and the data value piece, connecting data quality to data value is that, you know, enticement, is it not. >> That's absolutely right, and the more and more we can show monetization of data, or even the fact that, because of that data governance or quality, we were able to acquire a new customer. It doesn't all need to be tangible is what I'm saying. But the more and more we can show monetization, the better off we'll be in terms of selling the program. >> Excellent. Well, Sanjay thanks very much for coming to theCUBE and sharing your experience, we really appreciate it. >> Sanjay: Thank you, thank you very much. >> You're welcome. (techno music)