>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE Conversation. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and welcome to a special CUBE conversation. I'm coming from the Boston area studio. We were supposed to have a KubeCon Europe in Amsterdam. First in the spring, they pushed it off to the summer, and, of course, the decision due to the global pandemic is it's making it virtual. But happy to welcome to the program two guests that I was planning to have on in person, but couldn't wait for our virtual coverage of the event, though. Happy to welcome the co-founders of TriggerMesh. Sitting in the middle is Mark Hinkle, who is the CEO of the company, and to the other side is Sebastien Goasguen, who is also the co-founder and the Chief Product Officer. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks for having us, Stu. >> Thanks, Stu. >> All right, so, it's interesting, we've been covering the cloud native space for a number of years, and especially at KubeCon, there's always some of those discussions of does cloud kill on-premises, does this new thing kill that old thing. And in some of the early days of KubeCon, it was like, well, containers are really interesting, and there was all the buzz for years about Docker but, hey, the next thing is going to be serverless. And serverless, we don't need to think about any of that stuff, it's the nirvana of what developers wanted. So therefore, let's not worry about containers, but you sit in that space really helping to connect between some of the various pieces. So, I guess, Sebastien, maybe if I could start with you, 'cause you've built some of these various projects, when you go through and look at your background, you've been involved in the co-business space, uBLAS, and now for TriggerMesh but, you know, give us some of that background as to how, from a technological under pinnings, the community's been thinking about how these worlds fit together. >> Yeah sure, it's very interesting because first, the container rejuvenation started with Docker obviously and then Kubernetes appeared, and the entire community started building this. And this was really an evolution from the virtual machine orchestration, right. People needing a better way to package applications, deploy them, and they said, "You know what, "virtual machines are not that great for this. "Can't we have a better vehicle to do this" and that's where, really, containers took over. And it made total sense and so we saw this switch from, craziness about open stack and even cloud stack that Mark and I worked on, and putting all the focus on containers. And then comes AWS always innovating, always in the lead, and AWS saying, "Hey, you know what? "Actually, we need to go serverless. "We need to forget about the infrastructure. "What people want is really deploy applications "without worrying about the infrastructure. "They want things that are going to auto scale. "They want to pay very little, even pay per function call "and not pay when your VM is up." So AWS really pushed this mindset of serverless, but then what was the meaning in that realm of containers, and that's when I started Kubeless and I said, "You know what, if you would need to build function "as a service, you should build it on Kubernetes, "and use Kubernetes as a platform." And from there we started started seeing this fight, a little bit, between people, saying "Hey, forget containers, go serverless." So in TriggerMesh, we're not really taking that stance. We really see on-premises has, it's always going to be here, we have worked clouds on-premises, we have our own data centers but definitely there is more and more cloud usage, and when you start using the cloud you don't want to care about the infrastructure in the cloud, right. So, you want as much serverless as possible in the cloud, but you know you have to deal with your on-premises, data bases and some work loads and so on. So you have to be a pragmatic and you have to pick the best of both worlds and keep moving to modernize your stack and your IT in general. >> Excellent, alright so Mark, at the CNCF I'd seen the Knative project come out and it was talking about how we can connect containers and serverless, and one of the questions I'd been asking is "Well look, there are a lot "of open source projects for serverless." But when I talk to the community, when I talk to users, you say serverless, I think AWS. Sebastien was just talking about, so, I was sitting at the KubeCon shows and talking to the vendors and a lot of really big vendors were working on Knative, Oracle, IBM, RedHat and others and I said if this doesn't connect with AWS first and Azure second, I don't understand what we're doing. Yes, there's probably a place for on-premises but that was when, I think you and I had a conversation, we'd been looking at this space, so how did the ideas that Sebastien talked about turn into an initiative and a company of TriggerMesh. >> Well, early on we latched onto the Knative announcement that Google made. Google had given Sebastien some insight into where they were going with serverless, and the Knative project before it launched. And then they actually quoted him in the release which started interest in our company which was the only company in name at that point. But we really didn't know where Knative and Kubernetes together were going and the serverless movement, but we thought at first that there would need to be management capabilities to do lifecycle management around serverless functions, but what we realized, or Sebastien realized, early on was that it's not so much the management of serverless, because the whole idea of serverless is to abstract away all of the severs and architecture so that all you're really dealing with is the run time. So the problem that we saw early on was not managing but actually integrating applications across serverless framework, so the name TriggerMesh, that came from the idea that you trigger serverless functions and that you would mesh architectures whether they be legacy applications or they be file services or other serverless clouds across the fabric of the internet. So that's Triggermesh and that's really where we're going and we see that there's a couple of proof points in our industry for that already and people having the desire to do that. >> All right excellent, so that integration that you're talking about. Help Sebastien explain, there's some news I believe its the EveryBridge Cloud Native Integration Platform that's just announced. Help us understand what that is and what should we be kind of comparing it to other solutions in the industry today. >> Yeah so, you know we are very happy about the EveryBridge announcement and it's really, we're getting beta, we are doing a beta release of EveryBridge available in our SaaS cloud, the Triggermesh.io and really to first piggy back on what Mark was saying, is that a lot of people still believe serverless is just functions, right. And for us serverless is much more than this. Serverless is about building event driven applications. We see it with AWS, with things like they are doing with EventBridge, for example, but we really believe in this mindset. What we are trying to do is to help people build applications, build cloud native applications, that fundamentally are event driven and they are linking cloud services in the public cloud providers and also on-premises work load, right. So EveryBridge allows people to do this, to build those cloud native apps as basic event flows that connect event sources wherever they are, could be events that are on-prem from an eCommerce application, ERP application, could be events that are circulating through a Kafka infrastructure on-prem, and people can connect those event sources with what we call targets. So those targets could be on-premises, they would be OpenShift work loads for example or they could be in the cloud at AWS lambda functions, Google cloud run, or even dedicated SaaS like Twilio, SendGrid, and so on, so that's when we saw really over the last 18 to almost two years now, is that serverless is more of an integration problem, more like traditional IPaaS that we've seen, right. So basically we are building a new IPaaS solution at the frontier of serverless offerings from the public clouds, traditional messaging systems like Kafka, Remittent, Q and so on, plus the, I would say, the old IPaaS solution and we're doing all of this backed by Kubernetes and Knative. >> Excellent, so Mark I heard Sebastien talking about, he mentioned OpenShift, talked about Google, speak a little bit to really the ecosystems, the market places that TriggerMesh fits into. What are the use cases that you are seeing customers using. >> Yeah, I think a couple of the, to the dive into the on-prem triggers we have capabilities to trigger oracle database changes that could actually pick off cloud based ETL transactions. We're seeing that users are going through digital transformation and really to be more specific given the global climate right now, it's remote work, and the idea of lifting and shifting all of your infrastructure into the cloud is pretty daunting and long ask, but if you can front end those systems with new cloud native architecture and you have a way to create those event flows to tie in your existing systems to new portals for your employees to get their work done, automate workflows to provision new systems, like Zoom for example, and other conferencing systems, you can use the serverless front ends and work flows that actually integrate with all of your existing infrastructure and give you a way to extend your life of your applications and modernize them. >> Yeah, the long pole on attending modernization is that application. Sebastien maybe I'd come to you on this is, I think about iPaaS, when you look at that space they talk about all the integration that they need to work on, usually there are certifications involved, you mentioned Oracle databases, these are things that we need to go in there with a engineering effort and make sure that it is tested and certified by the ISV out there. Does containerization, Kubernetes, and serverless, does this change it at all, does this make it easier to move along these environments? I guess the question is for the enterprise, normally this change is rather slow. Mark was just alluding to the fact that we need to do some of these things faster, to try to react from what's happening in the world. >> Yeah, I think that's the entire premise of containers. It's speeding up the software life cycle and the speed at which we can deliver new features, for all our applications and so on. So, a big part of the job, when Docker started and then Kubernetes has been, if you adopt that type of infrastructure and that type of artifact, containers, you're going to speed up your software management and software delivery. So now what happens is that you have slow moving pieces, maybe pieces that you've had in your data center for 10, 20 years, for quite a while, and then you have these extremely fast moving environment, which is containerized and running Kubernetes plus the cloud. That's even, we could say even faster moving, and you can, that's definitely the challenge, that's where we see the value and that's where we see the struggle, is that you have all those big companies that have those slow moving pieces Oracle DB, IBM MQ, and so on and they need to make those pieces relevant in a fast moving containerized world and in a cloud native world, right. So how do you bridge that gap? Well that's what we do, we provide bridges. We provide integration bridges with every bridge, there you go. So we connect the event sources from Oracle DB and MQ and we bring that to a more fast moving cloud native environment, whether it's managed Kubernetes on Google GKE or whether its still on-prem in OpenShift. >> Mark, want to get your view point, just being a start up in today's global environment, obviously, you look at the cloud data space, many of the companies are distributed. We're talking to Sebastien from over in Europe, you're down in North Carolina, but give us your view point as a startup. How is the current economic environment impacting you, impacting your partners, impacting your customers. >> So, our partners and customers are probably moving more slowly than we do as a startup because they had physical brick and mortar offices and now they are coming into our world. We're 100% virtual, we're in 3 continents across over 12 time zones. That kind of work versus where they're at, I think everybody is consciously moving ahead, the one thing that I will say is that their interest in being more like the startups that are virtual, don't have brick and mortar, are really good at online collaboration. They look at us for sort of inspiration on how they are going to do business going forward or at least for the foreseeable future. So, overall I think that, not only are we teaching them about cloud native technologies but we're just teaching them about distributed work forces in a quarantined world. >> Absolutely, and I think those are some of the key learnings that you look at that are diversity consistent in the cloud native space. Want to give you both a final word and-- >> And Stu if I just add something. Mark and I have been working from home for quite a while, eight to 10 years, and definitely right now this is not the normal working from home, right, we all have, most of us have kids at home 24/7. The cognitive load in the news is huge, this is not the normal environment. So we are extremely careful, we help each other definitely internally in the team, you know, India, Vietnam, Germany, Spain, U.S. We have to be extremely careful that everybody is not falling down and putting too much on the nerves and their spirits right, so not a normal environment and even though we know how to do it we have to be careful. >> Yeah Sebastien, I'm so glad you brought that up 'cause this is not just a, how do we move to a distributed system. There is the rest of the impact on that. All right so lets give you both final words. Hopefully, we absolutely will be gathering together even if we are remote for the KubeCon event for Europe, other event later on this year, but Sebastien let's start with you, final take aways. >> Yeah, so we are very excited to build a startup. It's fast moving, its an exciting industry and really seeing the beta release of EveryBridge for us. We are trying to bring the future of event driven application to everybody, event sources to targets for everyone, not just on AWS and taking all of the strength of Kubernetes with us. It's going to be a familiar system for all Kubernetes lovers. >> Great, and Mark. >> Well as we talked about today, we are very excited about the EveryBridge announcement, and if you are interested in a cloud native, serverless, digital transformation we think we have great tools for you. But on a more personal and global note, I think Sebastien hit something that's really important, it's that even though we are not all together it's really important to check in. Even these virtual sessions have been, it's nice to interact with your colleagues and friends in the industry but be kind to each other and don't just take it for granted. that everything is good at the other end of the wire so reach out to each other and we'll all get through this together. >> Well Mark and Sebastien, thank you so much for joining us. Absolutely the personal pieces as well as TriggerMesh. You're helping to pull some of those technology communities together so congratulations on the progress and definitely look forward to tracking where you go from here. >> Thanks Stu. >> Thanks a lot. >> We appreciate it. >> All right be sure to check out theCUBE.net, we will be covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon Europe as it goes virtual as well as lots of others in the cloud developer space. I'm Stu Miniman and thank you for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering AWS re:Invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and Intel, along with its ecosystem partners. >> Well, welcome back here on theCUBE. We're at AWS re:Invent 2019. And every once in a while, we have one of these fascinating interviews that really reaches beyond the technological prowess that's available today into almost the human fascination of work, and that's what we have here. >> Big story. >> Dave Vellante, John Walls. We're joined by Sebastien De Halleux, who is the CEO, oh, COO, rather, of a company called Saildrone, and what they feature is wind-powered flying robots, and they've undertaken a project called Seabed 2030 that will encompass mapping the world's oceans. 85% of the oceans, we know nothing about. >> That's right. >> And, yeah, they're going to combine this tremendous technology with 100 of these flying drones. So, Sebastien, we're really excited to have you here. Thanks for joining us, and wow, what a project! So, just paint the high-level view, I mean, not to have a pun here, but just to share with folks at home a little bit about the motivation of this and what gap you're going to fill. Then we'll get into the technology. >> So I think, you know, the first question is to realize the role of oceans and how they affect you on land and all of us. Half the air you breathe, half the oxygen you breathe, comes from the ocean. They cover 70% of the planet and drive global weather, they drive all the precipitation. They also drive sea-level rise, which affects coastal communities. They provide 20% of the protein, all the fish that we all eat. So, you know, it's a very, very important survival system for all of us on land. The problem is, it's also a very hostile environment, very dangerous, and so, we know very little about it. Because we study it with a few ships and buoys, but that's really a few hundred data points to cover 70% of the planet, whereas on land, we have billions of data points that are connected. So, that's why we're trying to fundamentally address, is deploying sensors in the ocean using autonomous surface vehicles, what we call Saildrones, which are essentially, think of them as autonomous sailboats, seven meters, 23 feet, long, bright orange thing with a five-meter-tall sail, which is harnessing wind power for propulsion and solar power for the onboard electronics. >> And then you've got sonar attached to that, that is what's going to do the-- >> The mapping itself. >> The underwater mapping, right, so you can look for marine life, you can look for geographical or topographical anomalies and whatever, and so, it's a multidimensional look using this sonar that, I think, is powered down to seven kilometers, right? >> That's right. >> So that's how far down, 20,000, 30,000 feet. >> That's right. >> So you're going to be able to derive information from it. >> You essentially describe it as, you're painting the ocean with sound. >> That's absolutely right, whereas if you wanted to take a picture of land, you could fly an airplane or satellite and take a photograph, light does not travel through water that well. And so, we use sound instead of light, but the same principle, which is that we send those pulses of sound down, and the echo we listen to from the seabed, or from fish or critters in the water column. And so, yes, we paint the ocean with sound, and then we use machine learning to transform this data into biomass, statistical biomass distribution, for example, or a 3-D surface of the seabed, after processing the sound data. >> And you have to discern between different objects, right? I mean, you (laughs) showed one picture of a seal sunbathing on one of these drones, right? Or is there a boat on the horizon? How do you do that? >> It's an extremely hard problem, because if a human is at sea looking through binoculars at things on the horizon, you're going to become seasick, right? So imagine the state of the algorithm trying to process this in a frame where every pixel is moving all the time, unlike on land, where you have at least a static frame of reference. So it's a very hard problem, and one of the first problems is training data. Where do you get all this training data? So our drones, hundreds of drones, take millions of pictures of the ocean, and then we train the algorithm using either labeled datasets or other source of data, and we teach them what is a boat on the horizon, what does that look like, and what's a bird, what's a seal. And then, in some hard cases, when you have a whale under the Saildrone or a seal lying on it, we have a lot of fun pushing it on our blog and asking the experts to really classify it. (Dave and John laugh) You know, what are we looking at? Well, you see a fin, is it a shark? Is it a dolphin? Is it a whale? It can get quite heated. >> I hope it's a dolphin, I hope it's a dolphin. (Sebastien laughs) All right, so, I want to get into the technology, but I'm just thinking about the practical operation of this. They're wind-powered. >> Sebastien: Yes. >> But they just can't go on forever, right? I mean, they have to touch down at some point somehow, right? They're going to hit water. How do you keep this operational when you've got weather situations, you've got some days maybe where wind doesn't exist or there's not enough there to keep it upright, keep it operational, I mean. >> It's a very good question. I mean, the ocean is often described as one of the toughest environments in the universe, because you have corrosive force, you have pounding waves, you have things you can hit, marine mammals, whales who can breach on you, so it's a very hard problem. They leave the dock on their own, and they sail around the world for up to a year, and then they come back to the same dock on their own. And they harvest all of their energy from the environment. So, wind for propulsion, and there's always wind on the ocean. As soon as you have a bit of pressure differential, you have wind. And then, sunlight and hydrogeneration for electrical power, which powers the onboard computers, the sensors, and the satellite link that tells it to get back to shore. >> It's all solar-powered. >> Exactly, so, no fuel, no engine, no carbon emission, so, a very environmentally friendly solution. >> So, what is actually on them, well, first of all, you couldn't really do this without the cloud, right? >> That's right. >> And maybe you could describe why that is. And I'm also interested in, I mean, it's the classic edge use case. >> Sure, the ultimate edge. >> I mean, if you haven't seen Sebastien's keynote, you got to. There's just so many keynotes here, but it should be on your top 10 list, so Google Saildrone keynote AWS re:Invent 2019 and watch it. It was really outstanding. >> Sebastien: Thank you. >> But help us understand, what's going on in the cloud and what's going on on the drone? >> So it is really an AWS-powered solution, because the drones themselves have a low level of autonomy. All they know how to do is to go from Point A to Point B and take wave, current, and wind into consideration. All the intelligence happens shoreside. So, shoreside, we crunch huge amounts of datasets, numerical models that describe pressure field and wind and wave and current and sea ice and all kinds of different parameters, we crunch this, we optimize the route, and we send those instructions via satellite to the vehicle, who then follow the mission plan. And then, the vehicle collects data, one data point every second, from about 25 different sensors, and sends this data back via satellite to the cloud, where it's crunched into products that include weather forecasts. So you and I can download the Saildrone Forecast app and look at a very beautiful picture of the entire Earth, and look at, where is it going to rain? Where is it going to wind? Should I have my barbecue outside? Or, is a hurricane coming down towards my region? So, this entire chain, from the drone to the transmission to the compute to the packaging to the delivery in near real time into your hand, is all done using AWS cloud. >> Yeah, so, I mean, a lot of people use autonomous vehicles as the example and say, "Oh, yeah, that could never be done in the cloud," but I think we forget sometimes, there are thousands of use cases where you don't need, necessarily, that real-time adjustment like you do in an autonomous vehicle. So, your developers are essentially interacting with the cloud and enabling this, right? >> Absolutely, so we are, as I said, really, the foundation for our data infrastructure is AWS, and not just for the data storage, we're talking about petabytes and petabytes of data if you think about mapping 70% of the world, right, but also on the compute side. So, running weather models, for example, requires supercomputers, and this is how it's traditionally done, so our team has taken those supercomputing jobs and brought them into AWS using all the new instances like C3 and C5 and P3, and all this high-performance computing, you can now move from old legacy supercomputers into the cloud, and so, that really is an amazing new capability that did not exist even five years ago. >> Sebastien, did you ever foresee the day where you might actually have some compute locally, or even some persistent-- >> So on the small Saildrones, which is the majority of our fleet, which is going to number a thousand Saildrones at scale, there is very little compute, because the amount of electrical power available is quite low. >> Is not available, yeah. >> However, on the larger Saildrone, which we announced here, which is called the Surveyor-- >> How big, 72 feet, yeah. >> Which is a 72-foot machine, so this has a significant amount of compute, and it has onboard machine learning and onboard AI that processes all the sonar data to send the finished product back to shore. Because, you know, no matter how fast satellite connectivity's evolving, it's always a small pipe, so you cannot send all the raw data for processing on shore. >> I just want to make a comment. So people often ask Andy Jassy, "You say you're misunderstood. "What are you most misunderstood about?" I think this is one of the most misunderstood things about AWS. The edge is going to be won by developers, and Amazon is basically taking its platform and allowing it to go to the edge, and it's going to be a programmable edge, and that's why I really love the strategy. But please, yeah. >> Yeah, no, we talked about this project, you know, Seabed 2030, but you talked about weather forecasts, and whatever. Your client base already, NASA, NOAA, research universities, you've got an international portfolio. So, you've got a whole (laughs) business operation going. I don't want to give people at home the idea that this is the only thing you have going on. You have ongoing data collection and distribution going on, so you're meeting needs currently, right? >> That's right, we supply governments around the world, from the U.S. government, of course, to Canada, Mexico, Japan, Australia, the European Union, well, you name it. If you've got a coastline, you've got a data problem. And no government has ever come and told us, "We have enough ships or enough data on the oceans." And so, we are really servicing a global user base by using this infrastructure that can provide you a thousand times more data and a whole lot of new insights that can be derived from that data. >> And what's your governance structure? Are you a commercial enterprise, or are you going-- >> We are a commercial enterprise, yes, we're based in San Francisco. We're backed by long-term impact venture capital. We've been revenue-generating since day one, and we just offer a tremendous amount of value for a much cheaper cost. >> You used the word impact. There's a lot of impact funds that are sort of emerging now. At the macro, talk about the global impact that you guys hope to have, and the outcome that you'd like to see. >> Yeah, you know, our planetary data is all about understanding things that impact humanity, right? Right now, here at home, you might have a decent weather forecast, but if you go to another continent, would that still be the case? Is there an excuse for us to not address this disparity of information and data? And so, by running global weather model and getting global datasets, you can really deliver an impact at very low marginal cost for the entire global population with the same level of quality that we enjoy here at home. That's really an amazing kind of impact, because, you know, rich and developed nations can afford very sophisticated infrastructure to count your fish and establish fishing quarters, but other countries cannot. Now, they can, and this is part of delivering the impact, it's leveraging this amazing infrastructure and putting it in the hands, with a simple product, of someone whether they live on the islands of Tuvalu or in Chicago. >> You know, it's part of our mission to share stories like this, that's how we have impact, so thank you so much for-- >> I mean, we-- >> The work that you're doing and coming on theCUBE. >> This is cool. We talk about data lakes, this is data oceans. (Dave laughs) This is big-time stuff, like, serious storage. All right, Sebastien, thank you. Again, great story, and we wish you all the best and look forward to following this for the next 10 years or so. Seabed 2030, check it out. Back with more here from AWS re:Invent 2019. You're watching us live, right here on theCUBE. (upbeat pop music)

>>law from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering a ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners. >>Hey, welcome back. Everyone's two cubes. Live coverage I'm John for with the Cube were here reinvent date, too, as it winds down Walter Wall interviews two sets here. We want to think Intel, big sponsor of this, said we without Intel, we wouldn't have this great content. They support our mission at the Q. We really appreciate it. We're here and strengthen the signal the noise on our seventh reinvent of the eight years that they've been here. We've been documenting history, and we got a great panel lined up here. They got Sebastian to holler Who's the CEO? Sale Drone. Henry Stalls, Stool The VP of Science and Technology and Bowery Farming. Great use case around the food supply and Janet his era space weather scientists at NASA. The Kilo Physics division. We got a great lineup here. Great panel. Welcome to the Cube. Thanks for coming. Thank you. Okay. We'll start with you, Jen. And you're doing some super cool space exploration. You're looking at super storms in space. What's your story? >>Yeah, I work at NASA and NASA has in its mandate to understand how to protect life on Earth and in space from events like space, weather and other things. And I'm working with Amazon right now to understand how storms in space get amplified into super storms in space, which now people understand, can have major impacts on infrastructures head earth like power grits. >>So there's impact. >>There's a >>guy's measuring that, not like a supernova critical thing like >>that >>of, like, practical space. >>Actually, the idea that the perception of the world of the other risks of space weather changed dramatically in 1989 when Superstorm actually caused the collapse of a power grid in Canada and the currents flowing in the ground from the storm entered the power grid and it collapsed in 90 seconds. It couldn't even intervene. >>Wow, some serious issues. We want to get into the machine learning and how you guys are applying. But let's get through here, and we're doing some pretty cool stuff that's really important. Mission. Food supply and global food supply something that you're doing. What I think it might explain. >>Yeah, Bowery were growing food for a better future by revolutionizing agriculture. And to do that, we're building these ah network of large warehouse scale indoor farms where we go all sorts of produce indoors 365 days a year, using zero pesticides using hydroponic systems and led technology. So it's really exciting. And at the core of it is some technology we call the Bowery operating system, which is how we leverage software hardware in a I tow, operate and learn from our farm. >>I'm looking forward to digging into that Sebastian sale drone. You're doing some stuff you're sailing around the world. You got nice chance that you now tell your story. >>Sadly, no way. Use wind powered robots to study the 20% of the planet that's currently really data scarce. And that's the oceans on. So we measure things like biomass, which is how many fish down in the ocean. We measure the input of energy, which impacts weather and climate. We mapped the seabed on. We do all kinds of different tasks which are very, very expensive to do with few ships >>and to report now that climate change is on everyone's agenda, understanding potentially blind spots. Super important, right? >>That's what I'm trying to, You know, this whole question of if it's a question of what? When and what and how much. And so, you know, the ice is melting, the Gulf Stream is changing, and Nina is wrecking havoc. But we just do not understand this because we just don't have the data. In city, we use satellites where they have very low resolution. They cannot see through the water where you ships. No, has 16 ships he in the U. S. So we have to do better. We have to translate this into a big data problem. So that's what we're doing. We have 1000 sale drones on our plan with 100 water right now. And so we're trying to instrument old oceans all the time, >>you know, and data scales your friend because you don't want more data. Yes. Talk about what you're working on. What kind of a I in machine learning are you doing? You just gathering day. Then you're pumping it up to the cloud via satellites or what's going on there? >>One of the one of the use cases trying to understand you know who's out there. What are they doing? Another doing anything illegal. So to do this, you need to use cameras and look at the horizon and detect. You know whether you have vessels. And if those vessels are not transmitting the position, it means that they're trying to stay hidden on the ocean. And so we use machine learning and I that we train on on AWS to try to understand what where those things are. It's hard enough on land at sea. It's very hard because every pixel is moving. You have waves. The horizon is moving, the skies moving, the ship is moving. And so trying to solve this problem is a completely new thing that's called maritime domain awareness on, and it's something that has never been done before. >>And what's the current status of the project? >>So wave been live for about four years now we have 100 sail drones were building one a day towards the goal of having 1000 which we covered all the planet in a six by six degrees squares on. We are operationally active in the Arctic in the tropical Pacific. In the Atlantic. We just circumnavigated Antarctica, So it's the thing. That's really it's out there. But it's very far from from from land, >>So the spirit of cloud and agility static buoy goes away. You want to put the sale drones out there to gather and move around and capture. >>That's what the buoy is. You know, a massive steel thing, which has a full mile long cable, and it's it's headed to the silo in a fix stations one point and the ocean goes by. You having and robots means that you can go where you know something interesting is happening where you have a hurricane where you might have an atmospheric river where you might have a natural catastrophe or man made catastrophe. So this intelligence of the platform is really important in the navigation. That platform requires intelligence. And on the other side, getting 1000 times more data allows you to understand things better, just like Michael is doing. >>It isn't a non profit of four profit venture. >>It's a for profit company. So we said raw data a fraction of the cost of existing solution to try to create this kind of transformative impact on understanding what's happening >>that's super exciting for all the maritime folks out there because I love the ocean myself. Henry, you you're tackling real big mission. How using technology. I can almost imagine the instrumentation must be off the charts. What's your opportunity? Looked like? A tech perspective >>s o The level of control we have in our farms is really unparalleled. Weaken tune Just about every parameter that goes into growing our plans from temperature humidity Co Two light intensity day night cycles list keeps going on. And so to do Maur with fewer resource is to grow Maurin our farms. We're doing something called science a scale where we can pull different levers and make changes to recipes in real time. And we're using a I tow, understand the impact that those changes have and to guide us going from millions of different permutations. Trillions of permutations, really too. The perfect outdone >>converging. You jittery? Look at the product outcome. You circle that dated back is all on Amazon >>way. Do operate on Amazon. Yeah, and we're using deep learning technology to analyze pictures that come from cameras all over our farms. So we actually have eyes on every single crop that grows in our facilities and So we process those, learn from the data and and funnel that back into the >>like, Maybe put more light on this or do that kind of make a just a conditions. Is that that thing? That's >>exactly it. And we grow lots of different types of plants. We grow butter, head lettuce, romaine, kale, spinach, arugula, basil, cilantro. So there's a lot of different things we grow, and each of them require different, different little tweaks here and there. Toe produced over the best tasting and most nutritious product. >>That's cool, Janet Space. Lastly, on one inspection, we're gonna live on Mars someday. So you might be a weather forecaster for what route to take to Mars. But right now, the practical matter is Israel correlation between these storms. What kind of data problem are you looking at? What is the machine learning? What are some of the cool things you're working on? >>It? We have a big date, a problem because storms of that magnitude are very rare. So it's hard for us to find enough data to train a I we can't actually train a we have to use, you know, learning that doesn't require us to train it, but we've decided to take the approach that these super storms are like anomalies on the normal weather patterns. So we're trying to use the kind of a I that you used to detect anomalies like people who are trying to break into to do bank fraud or, you know, do a Web server tax. We use that same kind of software to tryto identify anomalies that are the space weather and look at the patterns between sort of a normal, more of a normal storm and a space with a huge space weather event to see how they patterns. Comparing how you're amplifying the regular storm into this big Superstorm activity. >>So it sounds like you have to be prepared for identifying the anomaly. See you looking at anomalies to figure out where the anomaly might be ready to be ready to get the anomaly. >>Yeah, you look at the background, and then what sticks out of the background that doesn't look like the background is is identified as the anomaly. And that's the storms that air happening, which are quite rare, >>all three of you guys to do some real cutting edge cool projects. I guess my question would be for the folks that are putting their toe in the water for machine learning. They tend to be new use cases like what you guys are doing, whether it's just a company tryingto read, factor themselves or we become reborn in the cloud ran legacy stuff. When you hear it, Amazon reinvent. This is the big question for these folks that are here. You guys are on the front end of a really cool projects. What's your advice that the people are trying to get in that mindset? >>So I think I think you know the way the way to think about this is if you're good at something and if you think you have the solution for something, how can you make that a 1,000,000 times more efficient? And so the problem is, there's just not enough capacity in the world, usually to treat data sets that a 1,000,000 times larger. And this is where machine learning should be thought about it as an extension of what humans really good at using a pair of eyes, ears or whatever or the sense. And so in our case. For example, counting fish acoustician, train acoustician, look at sonar data and understand schools of fish and can recognize them. And by using this knowledge base, we can train machines to do this on a much grander scale. And when you're doing a much grander scale, you derive. Ah, holding tight to >>your point is that humans are critical. I'm the process. So scaling the human capabilities and maybe filling in another scale issues or >>that's what a machine learning is. It's the greatest enabler of our time. It enables us to do things which are impossible to do before because we just didn't have enough people to do them at scale. >>AKI is being able to ask questions, right? And so if you have the questions to ask, you can apply this technology in a way that's never really been before possible. >>You're Jake. >>Yeah, I am actually someone who didn't know anything about a Ira ml when I started. I'm on. I'm a research scientist. That space weather. So coming into this, I'm working with E m L Solutions Lab here and putting a I experts with with experts and space brother we're getting we're doing things that are gonna give us new advances. I mean, We're already seeing things we didn't know before. So I think that if you partner with people who really have strong a I knowledge, you can use your knowledge of science to really get to the really important issues. >>Okay, I have to ask the final lightning round question. What is the coolest thing that you've done with your project that you've either observed implemented? That is super cool. Super cool. What's the coolest thing >>well in in terms of us were using anomaly detection to identify storms and in the first round through it actually identified every single Superstorm, which was not the major super storms, but it did. But it also started identifying other anomalous events, and when you went looked at him, they were anomalous events. So we're seeing things. It's picking out the weird things that are happening in space weather. It's kind of exciting and interesting. >>I worked for a day with you. I would love to just leave these anomalies every what's the coolest thing that you've seen or done with your project? >>I think the fact that we've built our own custom hardware own camera systems, uh, and that we feed those through algorithms that tell us something about what's happening minute by minute with plans as they grow to see pictures of plants minute by minute, they dance and it's truly it's It's remarkable. >>Wow! Fascinating Machin >>We've counted every single fish on the West Coast, the United States, every single air from Canada to Mexico. I thought I >>was pretty >>good. I didn't think it was possible. >>Very cool. But what's the number? >>Yeah, If I could tell you, I would. But I'm not allowed to tell you the jam. >>And you know where the salmon are, where they're running all that good stuff. Awesome. Well, congratulations, You guys doing some amazing work is pioneering a great example of just what's coming. And I love this angle of making larger human impact using technology. Where you guys a shaping technology for good things. Really, really exciting. Thanks for coming on, John Kerry. We're here live in Vegas for re invent 2019. Stay with more coverage. Day three coming tomorrow back with more After this break, when a fake intel for making it all happened presented by Intel Without their sponsorship, we wouldn't be able to bring this great content. Thanks for watching

>> Narrator: Live from San Diego California it's theCUBE covering Cisco Live, US, 2019 brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back we're here at the San Diego convention center for Cisco Live 2019 and you're watching theCUBE the worldwide leader in enterprise tech coverage helping extract the signal from the noise. I'm Stu Miniman we've had three days wall to wall coverage my co-host Dave Vellante and Lisa Martin are all in the house and I'm really excited to actually sit down one on one with one of the users at this user conference the 30th anniversary conference actually for Cisco with their users and partners over 28,000 so speaking for all of them right? We have Sebastien Morissette who's an IT architect specialist at Intact Financial Corporation come to us from beautiful Montreal Canada. >> Exactly. >> All right thank you so much for joining us so Sebastien first of all how many Cisco Lives have you been too? >> Honestly this is my first. >> Oh absolutely exciting for that, my first one I came too was actually 10 years ago I joked at the 20th anniversary they went back 20 years to have some 80's bands they had The Bangles and Devo on and now on the 30 year they moved 10 years forwards they have two great bands from the 90's Wheezer and Foo Fighters so your first time at Cisco Live give us your general impressions of the show. >> Well actually it's been very great I've had a lot of appearances I had to do as well so I got some sessions in I did some work as well so it's amazing to see how these events unfold right? Like the sheer size of this thing and how many people are involved, how many booths how many technical sessions you can have so, I was very pleased I'm here with a lot of people from my team as well from Intact so you know we get the chance to do stuff outside of the work area as well so it's interesting right? It's giving us this opportunity to really deep dive into what we love which is technology but at the same time spend some time together outside of work. >> That's awesome, we've had gorgeous weather here in San Diego hope you definitely get to see the sights before we geek out on some of the technology just give our audience a little bit about Intact and the insurance business but give us a little bit about the history of the company and core focus. >> Okay well Intact is a company that was, they grew as acquisitions with acquisitions we've typically, we were ING Canada back in, before 2010 and afterwards we were publicly traded now so we're Intact Financial Corp. Typically we're the number one PNC insurer in Canada and we've been working with different partners to build our data center 2.0 initiative which is kind of a new offering of you know modern IT services within Intact. >> Okay great and just to, your purview in the company and just the comment about the company is you know when you talk about those transformations you know MNA is something we see a lot in your industry and put some extra special challenges in place when you're doing that but tell us a little bit about what's under your role and scope as to kind of locations, people however you measure you know what, boxes or ports or whatever. >> Okay well you know typically my role is lead architect within the infrastructure and security group for North America Intact through acquisition we actually bought OneBeacon Insurance last year, so typically we now have a US presence as well in specialty insurance, specialty lines so typically whenever we're looking at different technologies we look at the skills sets that we have, we look to see what can be the better half for us to you know accelerate and be more agile in how we actually consume technology so in some cases whatever we're looking at building up these new features like I was talking for data center 2.0 it happens that some of the technologies and the skill sets we have were with Cisco which is why we are here today with the team. >> All right so Sebastien you talk about data center 2.0 and transformation there at the organizational level is it branded data center transformation does the word digital transformation come up in your discussions? >> Yeah data center 2.0 is actually kind of the project name that we've been giving this initiative for the past two years but it really is at the essence a digital transformation, what we're doing is we're typically taking training wheels to the Cloud so we're building an on-prem private Cloud offering with multi-sites so we have three sites in the scope right now and the goal is really to actually allow our business to expand into the Cloud while being in a secure on-prem environment when we get to that maturity level where we feel we're ready to actually really go into public Cloud our software engineering teams our development teams will have experienced it on-prem safely and will have a confidence level to bringing them there so it has been transformational also because we decided to push DevOps culture as far as we can from an infrastructure team so we were trying to get all the adoption from our software engineering folks to actually structure themselves, bring on DevOps team and that we can share with them so they can actually be more agile and get a lot more done without having to depend on us and spend a lot of time waiting for VM's or stuff so trying to accelerate that. >> Awesome I love that 'cause sometimes you hear okay we're going to 2.0 it's basically a fancy refresh but we're going to keep things mostly the same when I hear DevOps I know that culture and organization is something that is a key piece of that, I have to ask you without getting down into the pedantics of this, when you say a private Cloud that's in your data center we understand some of the covenants and reasons what you have but how do you determine whether, what was your guiding line as to how is this a Cloud versus just some new virtualized environment? >> I've had the chance to have great executive sponsorship from my senior vice president typically we were looking at how can we access the Cloud? The way I approached it was overhauling what we do was not the route to go what I asked him to do is say you know trust me I'll start with a clean slate and we will build a brand new landing area for Cloud native applications and new methodologies for modern IT services so typically in the end we didn't overhaul anything that we had we built a brand new sandbox for Intact to be able to work with so we went from disaster recovery to business continuity in that move we've built a three site approach because when I was looking at kind of my capex expenditure if I was building two sites to be fully resilient and be business continuity I would be spending 200% of my capital to actually build up that capacity when you go to three sites it seems awkward but you just need 50% on each site of your capacity to ensure 100% of coverage of your requirements, so in the end you're actually spending 150% of your capacity, or your capex to buy the compute, so there's an incentive there as well. So to answer your question more precisely it's very easy for us to see how it's a Cloud because we're not operating it the same way we're operating our other environment and since we started from scratch every process has been revised we haven't kept everything we had before so we had the chance to build something brand new for that specific offering that our software engineering groups were asking us to do. >> All right that's exciting stuff there when you look at these multi-site deployments I think back in my career and I worked on some of these environments, management, security and networking are absolutely critical, I hear oh okay I've got 50% in each oh my God what if a site gets isolated and I can't talk to those other two so luckily I'm guessing Cisco has something to do with your rollout, we're obviously here at Cisco Live so give us a little bit inside the architecture and especially you know what kind of Cisco pieces are you using? >> All right well you know typically the way that our story started was kind of weird the first thing we've done is we've actually went to Cisco to redesign a DMZ and we got out from Cisco Montreal team with an idea to not just change and buy ACI switches for the DMZ but actually rebuild our whole design to you know integrate ACI into the fabric and then when you start talking about firewalls or switches they tell you well with ACI you have contracts so it really started that way so we built an ACI fabric with the Cisco HyperFlex hyper-converged infrastructure as our compute layer so typically think of it as Intact is building our new version of a software defined data center. So with building that we have all the components so we have the virtualization like you spoke of earlier which is running like you know VMware on site, on top of the HyperFlex and then we have the ACI since we had three sites we topped it off with the multi-site orchestrator to be able to manage consistent policies around all of our three sites and in the end we needed to have an orchestrator to be able to deploy the content onto that and when we were looking at it early on it was Clicker when Cisco purchased Clicker we were looking at finding a Cloud management platform, so we ended up using CloudCenter which is now CloudCenter Suite and in the way we were using it, which was a little atypical from the typical way clients are using CloudCenter today we're taking it into the data center and out to the Cloud whereas when I was talking with Kip Compton earlier this week he was saying you know what sometimes our clients buy it more for the Cloud first and I was like well we have like the inverse story of exactly how we did the opposite but it works as well, so typically where we stand today I have the three sites we're able to deploy with CloudCenter we've got multi-site on top of that and the idea it really is that, I spoke about training wheels earlier well we're taking them off right? In the next couple of weeks we're starting to look into negotiations with public Cloud providers trying to move towards the public Cloud and you know there's exciting news that came out from Cisco this week while I was here about the fact that now you know they're forecasting a lot more collaboration with Microsoft and AWS and now they have all the three major Cloud providers covered with ACI Anywhere so that means all of our security that you were talking about earlier will now have a consistent policy model applied all, everywhere so to be honest I'm not too concerned about if we did a good choice a couple of years back I think we're in our sweet spot right now. >> Yeah and you're right it's a different story than we've generally heard from Cisco and some customers which is I have all of these public Cloud's and I have my data center and I'm looking for some piece to help tie it together and that the CloudCenter Suite is there so you feel you're confident with the platform that you chose and that's going to give you the flexibility as to whichever public Cloud or public Cloud you choose are you at the point there that do you know which public Cloud you're going to be on or maybe it's a little too early? >> Well to be honest you know we're keeping our options open you know we have different providers that are offered, you know the major public one there's Amazon there's Google Cloud we're not closing any options it's really a question of us to do the same secure approach that we've done right now with this offering to really go one at a time make sure that we're able to nail it down, make it secure that we get all the information back so I'm not at a possibility right now to disclose which ones we're dealing with because we're still negotiating but in the end we're not limiting ourselves we just want to be able to scale. >> Right you're confident that the Cisco solution that you choose will give you the flexibility no matter which one you use or if you use multiples or need to make switches along the way? >> Yeah. >> Question I have for you on that is when you look at multi-Cloud one of the things that are challenging for companies is how do I make sure I've got the skillsets because workloads might be portable, networks might be connected but understanding how I manage each of those environments so do you feel CloudCenter Suite's going to help you through that? You know what do you see as you look out over your roadmap as to what that's going to mean for you know your DevOps team and the people managing this environment as it spreads out to the public Cloud? >> Actually I'm feeling really confident because you know especially after seeing a couple of sessions of what Roland Acra and Kip have announced for the data center and for the Cloud piece we're seeing more and more normalization being done by Cisco to actually allow us to be confident in the fact that on prem we're doing ACI and that our policies are going to be mapped to the constructs of the different Cloud providers. So for me what it means is I don't necessarily need to become specialized in how we're going to be operating inside of a Cloud we need to make sure that we get the proper policies built into the different products you know Cisco's branding it the Anywhere right? They have the HX Anywhere the ACI Anywhere and typically that's what we like about it is I can have one consistent set of skillsets and allow the people to use it one thing I found interesting about this week and it's not necessarily to do like more promotion for Cisco is like the Cloud First ACI right? So being able to be starting with ACI in the Cloud I found that was kind of interesting because when you know how the multi-site orchestrator works means apps you build out in the Cloud you're going to be able to to pull back in through the MSO and push it back on prem or anywhere in other Clouds afterwards so I found that was very intuitive of them to go to that route of allowing us to you know transparently migrate apps between sites. >> All right so Sebastien you're using a lot of the latest and greatest from Cisco you talk about the HX the ACI the CloudCenter Suite what advice do you give to your peers out there and they say you know I've used Cisco products for a long time Cisco makes great products but you know simplicity and management across the product lines was something that you know needed some work what does the Cisco of today look like you know what's working well? What still would you like to see them progress on? >> Well you know for us one of the things that was nice like I mentioned earlier is we're typically going greenfield so I didn't have a lot of the issues that other companies might be facing if they're trying to take their brownfield and actually make it into what we've built so my first advice would be if you're able to get the executive sponsorship to build a greenfield environment there's nothing in Cloud native applications that is you know symmetric with the traditional environment of a data center, it's completely different ways of working we have one week sprints we patch everything as it comes out if an application goes into the environment it needs to be functional with that patching cycle of almost every time we're at n or n-1 so, my thing is think about applications as being the center of what you actually need and not the infrastructure, let the infrastructure be what it is because you're going to be anywhere right? So that's one of the things I would say, from what you said about Cisco and the integration you were right, we have lived a couple of items like that in the last two years and a half, however I've noticed that these new software components like CloudShare and everything not necessarily the hardware part Cisco nails hardware like it works they've been doing it for years the thing is with these software teams they're very customer driven we have access to the engineers now I mean we've had meetings with the Canadian execs Roland Acra's team we were able to get access to the developers and the teams here in the US so, every company has challenges I would be lying if I told you that even at Intact we don't have silos and we don't have issues sometimes with different teams managing together but I feel as if at least for the technologies that we're using they've done good work for us to actually help us get through that. >> Well it's interesting Sebastian you bring that up because I look at you say okay, you've got a greenfield environment awesome, we can go do some new tech, well let's throw in there the DevOps and let's change all the other pieces you're like completely overhauling your environment how much of that were there some new team members that came in as part of that or you know I look people, process and technology sounded like you were taking it all on at once, did that work well? Would you have if you looked back would you have changed some of the ordering and maybe you know gotten one piece before the other or did it help to kind of you know start brand new start fresh and get everything going? >> Well I wouldn't redo the part of starting fresh however, it helped us get really good pace and work you know it's our first agile project as an infrastructure group so all of that was great learning experience the only thing I would say is you need to make sure your organization is ready for that level of change because it's one thing to have one VP sponsorship to actually build out this type of approach but where we struggled a little bit was afterwards getting the rest of our IT organization to kind of want to get onboard. because we are building something new, the traditional environment is not disappearing and we're telling our software engineering groups here's a new area where you can play in but you know typically I'd say that it's been well received we have not had the need to build new skillsets because we're doing infrastructure as code so typically a lot of the stuff we're building we're making sure it's automated so that way it's very nice and lean and when we build a new site we have a lot of automation already built in so we can properly just deploy so lessons learned like you've asked me I'd say that typically I'd probably do much of what I did the same way, but I would work a little bit more on the people area just to make sure that the message is clearly understood that what we're building is for the future of Intact and make sure that we spend a little bit more time managing that aspect because for the technology it's fine for the time it took and everything it's fine, it's really people the change is significant to most of them and when you've been doing something for a long time and someone comes up and disrupts it's like if we were disrupting our own company right? So typically I'd say, that would be something that I would say to people manage that properly or you will have a lot more work to do inside of that initiative to actually gain everybody's momentum and get them to be behind you. >> Well Sebastien I really appreciate you walking us through all of your transformation I want to just give you the final word sounds like you've got great access to Cisco really hope you're happy with what you've done final word is to you know your expectations coming into a show like this and you know what your take aways will be from Cisco Live 2019 in San Diego? >> Well outside from the amazing weather you mean or yeah? so you know typically I like the event I've been to other events before, like I said this is my first time at Cisco but what I've seen is that Cisco's really into getting their customers to understand their technology so they're really present so I really liked how you know we were given the opportunity to do hands on labs and actually learn new technologies so typically great experience coming here and great opportunities and thanks so much for having us. >> Well Sebastien Morissette congratulations to your team at Intact and thank you so much for sharing this story. >> Thank you so much. >> All right we've got a little bit more left here of three days wall to wall coverage Cisco Live 2019 in San Diego for Dave Vellante, Lisa Martin I'm Stu Miniman and thanks as always for watching theCUBE. 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