our Studios in the heart of Silicon Valley Palo Alto California this is a cute conversation hey welcome back here ready Jeff Rick here with the cube we're in our pal 2 studios today for a cube conversation to talk about a pretty interesting topic right which is the security issue that is pervasive and needs to be baked in all over the place and combining that with networking and software to find networking which is often talked about as kind of the last area of really software-defined execution and a lot of activity around SD win so we're happy to have with us today from Fortin at John Madison he's the CMO and EVP of products for fortinet John great to see you you too and also joining us from Atlanta is Hilton styrsky he is the CIO of Crawford & Company Hilton great to see you as well so let's just jump into it big issue right Crawford & Company Hilton give us a little bit of the which you guys are and more importantly kind of what a distributed company that you are y SD win and when particularly is a pretty important piece of the equation absolutely SD wins very important to us as we look at growth so I'm a confident company we are 77 year old you asked in management's claims company we we haven't focus on restoring and enhancing lives businesses in communities in 2018 we processed about one and a half million claims they are translated into north of fifteen billion dollars in payments but more importantly when you think about the insurance space and really any highly transactional organization will go through a digital disruption and korfin and company is no difference and in particular with the culture of innovation that we have a profiling company we looking at all facets of the business to disrupt and that's our basic infrastructure all the way to the business process applications that interact with our customers and when we think about the network that's the lifeblood of our organization span in seven countries with almost 9,000 employees and NATO it touches every facet of our organization and our business and being on an innovative modern technology enables us to support the Scanlan growth that's invariably coming down the pipes in this industry thank you thanks for that summary and John over to you you know we got a lot of conferences as we go to your guys conference we go to RSA and security the topic because all these security needs to bake be baked in throughout the process it can't just be added on at the end and you guys have taken that to heart so tell us a little bit about you know your guys solution in this SD win space and how you're approaching it slightly differently yes he'll concern just about every company's going through this digital disruption and that means they really need to make sure that network is of high quality high speed can access the applications but most importantly is secure so what we do is make sure with all my networking gear and SDRAM being a specific example that security is totally integrated within that solution and you do it in a different way - right you're not just doing it with software but you've actually introduced you know a hardware component into this into this equation as well yeah well now obviously the software is still very important to make sure you can orchestrate and you've got the feature set but earlier this year we announced the the world's first sd1 ASIC which allows us to get that performance of the networking stack and security stack on a single appliance we're talking about five to 10 X performance and again allows the customer such as Crawford to run and networking and their security in that single appliance so help I'm curious from your perspective I have to say I feel sorry for CIOs cuz that you know as again we go to all these shows we walk around there's so much technology and in security specifically when you walk around RSA as the the granddaddy of all those conferences you know there's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of vendors and I think my goodness how do you go through how do you evaluate so you know what do you do when you're looking for technology partners among this giant sea of potential opportunities and people telling you to do this that and the other you got to find a partner that's going to help you absolutely so I mean they're number of facets that come to that but first and foremost we take security and privacy not just security extremely or seriously hope it ends because of that we rely on our cyber team to help us make decisions and drive those discussion so these relationships are not just you know come about because of benefits that we see on white papers or interactions with the PIO they really are driven from our cyber organization in the indian research that they do envy attend products we're not just looking for a sexy brands name to put in our our branches in our data centers but we're really looking for a tried and tested product and it wasn't a network that really came down to our cyber team because of the integrated nature of the ESD way and the security applies it to em i'm curious in terms of the changing kind of government regulations you know ii had gdpr we've got the California Privacy Act has that impacted your you know kind of prioritization of security and privacy or has that always just been a top priority and that's just you know kind of another box to check yeah man it's always been there we haven't seen it impacted from a sigh from a networking perspective tea to date but as we think about applications we're looking for the flexibility in the application stack to adhere to GT bernini quite frankly any other regulatory control been in the insurance industry we are highly regulated and that type of scale and flexibility is something that we look to as we build new products more modern future and John to you I'm just curious you know some of the advantages of bringing these two things together to really bake the security and the SD win appliance what is that enable you to do that you couldn't do so much before well it's all about supporting the business and the applications so corporate for example you know obviously voice is very important to me they speak to a lot of people and branch offices video training their applications in the cloud and so bringing mass security and that networking together and accelerating it means they get a high quality of service to all the applications which are important to their business so what's next John what are some of the the things as you look forward and you see this this market to continuing to evolve you guys are really starting to take a real leadership position what are some of your priorities as you as you look forward and we're gonna flip the calendar here in just a few short months you know and definitely you know sd-1 an application on our appliance has exploded we just announced we're actually in the top three in terms of sd-1 benders globally what's coming next well I think what we call cloud on-ramp isn't very important where we provide specific routes and information to make sure we have even higher QoS of devices and users getting to the applications and I knew that on the land side of it was starting to roll out something called ST branch which gives you the same kind of fabric topology view control and workflow of access from Wi-Fi from Ethernet switching and we've also integrated nak network access control which gives you that visibility control of IOT devices great so I want it I want to give you the last word you know to share with your peers as they're going through this journey a lot of talk about digital transformation but when the rubber hits the road right you actually got to do do the things and do the small things that make a difference as you've gone through this and you've dealt the security you got a lot of remote branches this continuation around hybrid cloud and and distributed infrastructure what are some of the things on your top of mind and what would you share with some of your peers as they you know start to look at some of these technologies well you've got to have an open mindset and obviously like anything it's okay to fail as long as you learn from your mistakes but as we think specifically about our network and coordinate in particular I think trying to reference some of the technologies and that that requires a lot of data so you need to understand what the future looks like and provide a scale and flexible solution for our customers and John also reference Borden ACK we are in the process of deploy in that and it's all about having that single pane of glass in an integrated solution and makes it easier for a smaller supports team to manage and ultimately Triberr you and Ally investments and other parts of their company well Hilton I know we're up against it on the time I want to thank you for for taking some time out of your busy day and lovely Atlanta and sharing your story and John you know nothing but continued success to you and fortunate we've really been happy to be part of the story and share it and come to the conference's and just another step on that on that journey to success thank you thanks a lot all right thanks gentlemen all right you've been watching the cube from our Palo Alto studios thanks for watching we'll see you next time [Music]

(gentle music) >> Hey! Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of WiDS 2023, the eighth Annual Women In Data Science Conference. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. We are at Stanford University, as you know we are every year, having some wonderful conversations with some very inspiring women and men in data science and technical roles. I'm very pleased to introduce Tracy Zhang, my co-host, who is in the Data Journalism program at Stanford. And Tracy and I are pleased to welcome our next guest, Rhonda Crate, Principal Data Scientist at Boeing. Great to have you on the program, Rhonda. >> Tracy: Welcome. >> Hey, thanks for having me. >> Were you always interested in data science or STEM from the time you were young? >> No, actually. I was always interested in archeology and anthropology. >> That's right, we were talking about that, anthropology. Interesting. >> We saw the anthropology background, not even a bachelor's degree, but also a master's degree in anthropology. >> So you were committed for a while. >> I was, I was. I actually started college as a fine arts major, but I always wanted to be an archeologist. So at the last minute, 11 credits in, left to switch to anthropology. And then when I did my master's, I focused a little bit more on quantitative research methods and then I got my Stat Degree. >> Interesting. Talk about some of the data science projects that you're working on. When I think of Boeing, I always think of aircraft. But you are doing a lot of really cool things in IT, data analytics. Talk about some of those intriguing data science projects that you're working on. >> Yeah. So when I first started at Boeing, I worked in information technology and data analytics. And Boeing, at the time, had cored up data science in there. And so we worked as a function across the enterprise working on anything from shared services to user experience in IT products, to airplane programs. So, it has a wide range. I worked on environment health and safety projects for a long time as well. So looking at ergonomics and how people actually put parts onto airplanes, along with things like scheduling and production line, part failures, software testing. Yeah, there's a wide spectrum of things. >> But I think that's so fantastic. We've been talking, Tracy, today about just what we often see at WiDS, which is this breadth of diversity in people's background. You talked about anthropology, archeology, you're doing data science. But also all of the different opportunities that you've had at Boeing. To see so many facets of that organization. I always think that breadth of thought diversity can be hugely impactful. >> Yeah. So I will say my anthropology degree has actually worked to my benefit. I'm a huge proponent of integrating liberal arts and sciences together. And it actually helps me. I'm in the Technical Fellowship program at Boeing, so we have different career paths. So you can go into management, you can be a regular employee, or you can go into the Fellowship program. So right now I'm an Associate Technical Fellow. And part of how I got into the Fellowship program was that diversity in my background, what made me different, what made me stand out on projects. Even applying a human aspect to things like ergonomics, as silly as that sounds, but how does a person actually interact in the space along with, here are the actual measurements coming off of whatever system it is that you're working on. So, I think there's a lot of opportunities, especially in safety as well, which is a big initiative for Boeing right now, as you can imagine. >> Tracy: Yeah, definitely. >> I can't go into too specifics. >> No, 'cause we were like, I think a theme for today that kind of we brought up in in all of our talk is how data is about people, how data is about how people understand the world and how these data can make impact on people's lives. So yeah, I think it's great that you brought this up, and I'm very happy that your anthropology background can tap into that and help in your day-to-day data work too. >> Yeah. And currently, right now, I actually switched over to Strategic Workforce Planning. So it's more how we understand our workforce, how we work towards retaining the talent, how do we get the right talent in our space, and making sure overall that we offer a culture and work environment that is great for our employees to come to. >> That culture is so important. You know, I was looking at some anitab.org stats from 2022 and you know, we always talk about the number of women in technical roles. For a long time it's been hovering around that 25% range. The data from anitab.org showed from '22, it's now 27.6%. So, a little increase. But one of the biggest challenges still, and Tracy and I and our other co-host, Hannah, have been talking about this, is attrition. Attrition more than doubled last year. What are some of the things that Boeing is doing on the retention side, because that is so important especially as, you know, there's this pipeline leakage of women leaving technical roles. Tell us about what Boeing's, how they're invested. >> Yeah, sure. We actually have a publicly available Global Diversity Report that anybody can go and look at and see our statistics for our organization. Right now, off the top of my head, I think we're hovering at about 24% in the US for women in our company. It has been a male majority company for many years. We've invested heavily in increasing the number of women in roles. One interesting thing about this year that came out is that even though with the great resignation and those types of things, the attrition level between men and women were actually pretty close to being equal, which is like the first time in our history. Usually it tends on more women leaving. >> Lisa: That's a good sign. >> Right. >> Yes, that's a good sign. >> And we've actually focused on hiring and bringing in more women and diversity in our company. >> Yeah, some of the stats too from anitab.org talked about the increase, and I have to scroll back and find my notes, the increase in 51% more women being hired in 2022 than 2021 for technical roles. So the data, pun intended, is showing us. I mean, the data is there to show the impact that having females in executive leadership positions make from a revenue perspective. >> Tracy: Definitely. >> Companies are more profitable when there's women at the head, or at least in senior leadership roles. But we're seeing some positive trends, especially in terms of representation of women technologists. One of the things though that I found interesting, and I'm curious to get your thoughts on this, Rhonda, is that the representation of women technologists is growing in all areas, except interns. >> Rhonda: Hmm. >> So I think, we've got to go downstream. You teach, I have to go back to my notes on you, did my due diligence, R programming classes through Boeings Ed Wells program, this is for WSU College of Arts and Sciences, talk about what you teach and how do you think that intern kind of glut could be solved? >> Yeah. So, they're actually two separate programs. So I teach a data analytics course at Washington State University as an Adjunct Professor. And then the Ed Wells program is a SPEEA, which is an Aerospace Union, focused on bringing up more technology and skills to the actual workforce itself. So it's kind of a couple different audiences. One is more seasoned employees, right? The other one is our undergraduates. I teach a Capstone class, so it's a great way to introduce students to what it's actually like to work on an industry project. We partner with Google and Microsoft and Boeing on those. The idea is also that maybe those companies have openings for the students when they're done. Since it's Senior Capstone, there's not a lot of opportunities for internships. But the opportunities to actually get hired increase a little bit. In regards to Boeing, we've actually invested a lot in hiring more women interns. I think the number was 40%, but you'd have to double check. >> Lisa: That's great, that's fantastic. >> Tracy: That's way above average, I think. >> That's a good point. Yeah, it is above average. >> Double check on that. That's all from my memory. >> Is this your first WiDS, or have you been before? >> I did virtually last year. >> Okay. One of the things that I love, I love covering this event every year. theCUBE's been covering it since it's inception in 2015. But it's just the inspiration, the vibe here at Stanford is so positive. WiDS is a movement. It's not an initiative, an organization. There are going to be, I think annually this year, there will be 200 different events. Obviously today we're live on International Women's Day. 60 plus countries, 100,000 plus people involved. So, this is such a positive environment for women and men, because we need everybody, underrepresented minorities, to be able to understand the implication that data has across our lives. If we think about stripping away titles in industries, everybody is a consumer, not everybody, most of mobile devices. And we have this expectation, I was in Barcelona last week at a Mobile World Congress, we have this expectation that we're going to be connected 24/7. I can get whatever I want wherever I am in the world, and that's all data driven. And the average person that isn't involved in data science wouldn't understand that. At the same time, they have expectations that depend on organizations like Boeing being data driven so that they can get that experience that they expect in their consumer lives in any aspect of their lives. And that's one of the things I find so interesting and inspiring about data science. What are some of the things that keep you motivated to continue pursuing this? >> Yeah I will say along those lines, I think it's great to invest in K-12 programs for Data Literacy. I know one of my mentors and directors of the Data Analytics program, Dr. Nairanjana Dasgupta, we're really familiar with each other. So, she runs a WSU program for K-12 Data Literacy. It's also something that we strive for at Boeing, and we have an internal Data Literacy program because, believe it or not, most people are in business. And there's a lot of disconnect between interpreting and understanding data. For me, what kind of drives me to continue data science is that connection between people and data and how we use it to improve our world, which is partly why I work at Boeing too 'cause I feel that they produce products that people need like satellites and airplanes, >> Absolutely. >> and everything. >> Well, it's tangible, it's relatable. We can understand it. Can you do me a quick favor and define data literacy for anyone that might not understand what that means? >> Yeah, so it's just being able to understand elements of data, whether that's a bar chart or even in a sentence, like how to read a statistic and interpret a statistic in a sentence, for example. >> Very cool. >> Yeah. And sounds like Boeing's doing a great job in these programs, and also trying to hire more women. So yeah, I wanted to ask, do you think there's something that Boeing needs to work on? Or where do you see yourself working on say the next five years? >> Yeah, I think as a company, we always think that there's always room for improvement. >> It never, never stops. >> Tracy: Definitely. (laughs) >> I know workforce strategy is an area that they're currently really heavily investing in, along with safety. How do we build safer products for people? How do we help inform the public about things like Covid transmission in airports? For example, we had the Confident Traveler Initiative which was a big push that we had, and we had to be able to inform people about data models around Covid, right? So yeah, I would say our future is more about an investment in our people and in our culture from my perspective >> That's so important. One of the hardest things to change especially for a legacy organization like Boeing, is culture. You know, when I talk with CEO's or CIO's or COO's about what's your company's vision, what's your strategy? Especially those companies that are on that digital journey that have no choice these days. Everybody expects to have a digital experience, whether you're transacting an an Uber ride, you're buying groceries, or you're traveling by air. That culture sounds like Boeing is really focused on that. And that's impressive because that's one of the hardest things to morph and mold, but it's so essential. You know, as we look around the room here at WiDS it's obviously mostly females, but we're talking about women, underrepresented minorities. We're talking about men as well who are mentors and sponsors to us. I'd love to get your advice to your younger self. What would you tell yourself in terms of where you are now to become a leader in the technology field? >> Yeah, I mean, it's kind of an interesting question because I always try to think, live with no regrets to an extent. >> Lisa: I like that. >> But, there's lots of failures along the way. (Tracy laughing) I don't know if I would tell myself anything different because honestly, if I did, I wouldn't be where I am. >> Lisa: Good for you. >> I started out in fine arts, and I didn't end up there. >> That's good. >> Such a good point, yeah. >> We've been talking about that and I find that a lot at events like WiDS, is women have these zigzaggy patterns. I studied biology, I have a master's in molecular biology, I'm in media and marketing. We talked about transportable skills. There's a case I made many years ago when I got into tech about, well in science you learn the art of interpreting esoteric data and creating a story from it. And that's a transportable skill. But I always say, you mentioned failure, I always say failure is not a bad F word. It allows us to kind of zig and zag and learn along the way. And I think that really fosters thought diversity. And in data science, that is one of the things we absolutely need to have is that diversity and thought. You know, we talk about AI models being biased, we need the data and we need the diverse brains to help ensure that the biases are identified, extracted, and removed. Speaking of AI, I've been geeking out with ChatGPT. So, I'm on it yesterday and I ask it, "What's hot in data science?" And I was like, is it going to get that? What's hot? And it did it, it came back with trends. I think if I ask anything, "What's hot?", I should be to Paris Hilton, but I didn't. And so I was geeking out. One of the things I learned recently that I thought was so super cool is the CTO of OpenAI is a woman, Mira Murati, which I didn't know until over the weekend. Because I always think if I had to name top females in tech, who would they be? And I always default to Sheryl Sandberg, Carly Fiorina, Susan Wojcicki running YouTube. Who are some of the people in your history, in your current, that are really inspiring to you? Men, women, indifferent. >> Sure. I think Boeing is one of the companies where you actually do see a lot of women in leadership roles. I think we're one of the top companies with a number of women executives, actually. Susan Doniz, who's our Chief Information Officer, I believe she's actually slotted to speak at a WiDS event come fall. >> Lisa: Cool. >> So that will be exciting. Susan's actually relatively newer to Boeing in some ways. A Boeing time skill is like three years is still kind of new. (laughs) But she's been around for a while and she's done a lot of inspiring things, I think, for women in the organization. She does a lot with Latino communities and things like that as well. For me personally, you know, when I started at Boeing Ahmad Yaghoobi was one of my mentors and my Technical Lead. He came from Iran during a lot of hard times in the 1980s. His brother actually wrote a memoir, (laughs) which is just a fun, interesting fact. >> Tracy: Oh my God! >> Lisa: Wow! >> And so, I kind of gravitate to people that I can learn from that's not in my sphere, that might make me uncomfortable. >> And you probably don't even think about how many people you're influencing along the way. >> No. >> We just keep going and learning from our mentors and probably lose sight of, "I wonder how many people actually admire me?" And I'm sure there are many that admire you, Rhonda, for what you've done, going from anthropology to archeology. You mentioned before we went live you were really interested in photography. Keep going and really gathering all that breadth 'cause it's only making you more inspiring to people like us. >> Exactly. >> We thank you so much for joining us on the program and sharing a little bit about you and what brought you to WiDS. Thank you so much, Rhonda. >> Yeah, thank you. >> Tracy: Thank you so much for being here. >> Lisa: Yeah. >> Alright. >> For our guests, and for Tracy Zhang, this is Lisa Martin live at Stanford University covering the eighth Annual Women In Data Science Conference. Stick around. Next guest will be here in just a second. (gentle music)

>>Hello everyone. I'm John furry with the cube. We're here, live on the ground in Seattle, Washington at the Bellevue Hilton for thes marketplace seller conference. It's kind of like the one and a half inaugural event. They have their first event in 2019, and now with the pandemic, they're re rebooting it, but it's really all about AWS's marketplace and partner network coming together, creating an experience for how people will be buying software and how people will be selling through with their ecosystem. I'm Jennifer, the cube we're here with Megan. Fontain, who's the VP of cloud seek. Who's a seller and partner of AWS making great to see you. Thanks for coming on the cube. >>Thank you so much. It's, it's nice to be back in person and it's great to be with you. >>So watching the progression of how Amazon web services is evolving the marketplace and the partner network, you're starting to see some patterns. One is, I'll say they have their own stuff, and they're addressing that in the room, but they're really letting the thousand flowers bloom in the ecosystem. You hear that every year reinvent, even when Andy Jesse who's now the CEO of Amazon would say, no, we want the best of breed. Best product wins. Adam. Celeste's the same view, new leadership here, the combination of APN partner network with the marketplace now partner organization, APO is the big news. They're open. They're building an API service layer between their old marketplace to create this new model here. What's your, what's your, what's your take? What's your seller view? >>Yeah, so our marketplace and APN journey started with AWS about three years ago. And I think something that was the most profound to me out of the keynote this morning was that Chris Gus, who runs the API organization for ISVs talked about marketplace as the automation layer for how AWS will partner going forward. So an independent software vendor likes, we see that as opening up the door for two things. One, we get to leverage the great global scale and platform of AWS, but then secondly, it really brings together this idea that we will sell together to the end customer through the marketplace. And we will also sell as partners through co-sell and APM. >>You know, I love these kind of new, new development models around channel partners, ISVs at the end of the day, buyers are buying software. Yes. And they're cloud they're on a cloud journey. You're the VP of cloud at the company, your company seek take a minute to explain what your company's known for, what you guys do, your relationship with the market. You're an ISV. Yeah. Where are you guys? Cuz you guys ha have a good thing going on here. What do you guys do? What are you known for >>Sure. So seek is market leading software for advanced analytics for the manufacturing industry. So we're squarely in that industry. ISV, we sell SAS solutions to business buyers who want two things. One is they want technology that they can deploy quickly in their organizations drive that great business value ROI that drives the next level of investment in technology seeks unique offering in marketplace is that we've solved a lot of the challenges around that operational data in manufacturing. So manufacturing the industry, it's going through massive transformation, supply chain, disruption, or coming out of that, the globalization of manufacturing. And yet they have data that they've stored for 20, 30 years, that they're still in the first generation of trying to gain insights from. So that's why seek exists. It's really to bring the insights outta that data and then help the manufacturing customers we work with. Get to the cloud. >>What's interesting. I like your perspective and I want to follow up on that because data analytics used to be this thing. Well, I got a database. Yeah. You hosted on some storage and you got structured data, unstructured data. Okay. You got scale. But now you've got data platforms. You've got data mesh. I think Gardner actually has a different term, but gets a whole nother conversation. Data platforms are diverse. Yeah. They're pervasive. They're part of core infrastructure in cloud. It's not like a point solution anymore. It's gotta be integrated and customers are trying to work on, this is one of the hardest problems today. Yeah. In cloud transformation is the data layer, the relationship to other services. Yeah. >>So the Dataverse common data models. How APIs will interact with data. The trend there though is something that it is the ecosystem that will bring value to customers because no database is gonna serve every need. Right. And you think about the data layer. It really has to solve the problems whereby any application, any user, any insight can be generated almost seamlessly. And we're really on the first wave of that journey. But I think a, an element for seek that we certainly understand with our customers is that data alone is not an end objective, right? If it doesn't lead to a decision and an action and a workflow that humans can take to go drive and improvement in their business process, then you haven't tapped into the, you know, value of that technology >>When a buyer comes to the marketplace. Yeah. And they see your listing and solutions. Yes. What are they getting? What are they, what, what are they buying? >>So for seek, we've radically simplified that we, we really embrace this idea of simplification. We just sell, seek. So we have one seat listing in the AWS marketplace, all applications of seek they're all available there. We really leaned into the enterprise procurement models. So private offers are how we do the most of our business on marketplace. And it really went from a stage of experimentation where couple of customers, you know, what is this marketplace? Maybe we'll buy a few of our business applications there all the way through to now we're starting to see the demand side come through for customers where it's not just their security software or their DevOps or infrastructure software. They wanna buy solutions like seek including line of business buyers through a common catalog in the marketplace. >>Great. So I wanna ask you, cuz I want to give you the opportunity to give the pitch, the customer watching right now. Yeah. What's the pitch. Why seek, why this listing? Why should they hit the purchase button? I wish it was that easy. Why should they, why should they what's the pitch? Sure. >>So the first thing is seek through marketplace is a five clicks on three screens procurement experience. So compare that to months and months of back and forth with contracts and purchase orders and vendor set up, this is five less than five minutes, few screens, couple of clicks. And you can buy a multi-year subscription of seek to cover your entire enterprise. The second pitch is that it's a SaaS application that now can be deployed within hours. And then your users, your insights, your value is starting within the first couple hours. This is not a heavy lift it project. That's gonna take months. And then lastly seek specifically. So seek, because we're validated in the marketplace has been well architected for AWS cloud. We have that, you know, stamp of credibility. And we are leading in this space for manufacturing organizations who want cloud native secure software for analytics on their operational data. >>That's awesome. And customers have the challenge when they think about data, the use case security, yes governance, there's a variety of different use cases. What are you seeing as the top three use cases for C? >>So on the there's two lines of that question. The first is really the line of business use cases. And those are all about what outcome are we gonna drive? Are we gonna approve efficiency in your factory? Are we gonna reduce greenhouse gas emissions? Those are the kinds of use cases on the business side that that seek works with our customers on, on the it side. They wanna know that we can access data securely, that we can be part of an ecosystem where they can bring in aerations and algorithms and machine learning and new applications. And they also wanna know that we are sustainable. So meaning that we're driving constant innovation that is easy for them to consume and to gain access, to, to drive the next level of >>Improvement. My final AWS marketplace seller question is, yeah. How does the procurement process through marketplace help you and your customers what's in it for them? What value do the, does the customer get going through AWS procuring? >>So there's really really three. The first is you get a validated set of a catalog of solutions, right? That AWS says, you know, we undergo a rigorous process technically and commercially to be in the marketplace. The second thing for procurement effect of for procurement professionals is that they can leverage their cloud committed spend with AWS. So as they commit more expense and spend with AWS, now these marketplace purchases can be credited to that committed expense. We found that brings it and the business together with procurement to really work more collectively on that. And then the third piece is, imagine buying software where you don't need legal, you know, back and forth, back and forth because we're using a standard doula that thousands of other software companies are using in the marketplace today. >>I thought the keynote had a great line. We are not just a website of a catalog. We are a API service layer. Yes. With automation, more like a C I C D pipe lining. Yes. Of software. Yeah. And we are hearing more and more about software supply chain, more about scaling. This is kind of the future of procurement. Why wouldn't you buy direct, pick a few buttons and assemble your solutions at scale. >>There's some amount of tenant consequences that we've really learned as well. It brings it and the business closer together. So the it person wants to know, well, what is this seek, you know, piece of my AWS invoice. And so they get more engaged earlier in the process with procurement, with the business. And we've actually found that it brings internally for our customers, more people to the seat at the table around what are the applications and how will they govern them across the enterprise. >>Megan, I really appreciate you taking the time to speak with me here at the, at the conference, the seller S marketplace. I have to ask you, we were talking before we came on camera, you made a comment. I'd like you to share this comment with some commentary. You said I'm the VP of cloud transformation. And in the future that might title might not exist. Explain what you mean there, cuz I think this is kind of a telling moment about where we are at this point in the industry. >>Sure. So maybe it's, maybe it's funny to sort of envision a future where your role doesn't exist. But I think, you know, it's a to innovators do that, right? And for us we're a software company. That's going through the transition on-prem to SAS, you know, cloud native sets of applications, but in the pretty near term fore, really the next two years, all of our business will be SaaS and cloud. And so we won't need a separate VP or a separate team or separate function. It will just be how the business operates. >>Megan, thanks for running cue, Meghan bine, who is SI, she's a cloud VP of cloud transformation, VP of cloud, and she's successful. The title will go away and she'll move on to some other great valuable things like running the business. Thanks for coming on. Thank you so much. Okay. This is a cube here in Seattle. We're covering the eights marketplace seller conference. Part of APN merging with Amazon marketplace now called the APO Amazon partner organization. I'm John ER, with the cube. Thanks for watching.

>>Welcome back everyone to the cubes coverage here in Seattle, Washington for AWS's marketplace seller conference. The big news here is that the Amazon partner network and marketplace coming together and reorganizing into one organization, the AIST partner organization, APO bringing together the best of the partnership and the marketplace to sell through. It's a sellers company. This is the second year, but technically with COVID, I call it a year and a half. This is the cube. I'm John for your host. Got a great guest, Leah for sale vice president of business development at four square. Leah, thanks for coming on the cube. Look great. Yeah. >>Hey, thanks. Thanks for having me here. >>So four square, everyone, and that has internet history knows you. You check in you'd become the mayor of a place right back in the day, all fun. It was a great app and I think it was competitor go sold the Facebook, but that was the beginning of location data. Now you got Uber apps, you got all apps, location, everywhere. Data is big here in the marketplace. They sell data, they got a data exchange, Chris head of marketplaces. Like we have all these things we're gonna bring 'em together, make it simpler. So you're on the data side. I'm assuming you're selling data and you're participating at the data exchange. What is Foursquare doing right now? Yeah, >>Exactly. So we are part of the data exchange. And you mentioned checking in. So we, we are really proud of our roots, the, the four square app, and that's kind of the basis still of our business. We have a hundred million data points, which are actually places of interest across the world 200 countries. And we are we're in the business of understanding whereplace are and how people move through those places over time. And >>What's the value proposition for that data. You're selling the data. >>We are selling the data and we're selling it. You can think about use cases. Like how can I improve the engagement with my app through location data? So for example, next door, as a customer of ours, everyone knows next door. When a new business comes online, they wanna make sure that business is a real business. So they use our places to ensure that the address of that business is accurate. >>So how did you, how do you guys get your data? Because if you don't have the first party app, you probably had critical mass of data. Yeah. But then do other people use your data and then re contribute back in kinda like, well, Stripe is for financial. You guys are plugging in yeah. To >>Apps. A great question. So we still do have our consumer apps. We're still proud of those. It's still a basis of our company really. Okay. So, but we take that data. So our first party data, we also, for all the web, we have some partners integrate our SDK. And so we're pulling in all that data from various sources and then scrubbing it and making sure we have the most unique. >>So you guys still have a business where the app's working. Yep. Okay. But also let's just say, I wanna have a cube app. Yeah. And I want to do a check in button. Yep. So rather than build checking in, could I OEM you could four square is that you >>Could, and we could help you understand where people are checking in. So we know someone's here at the Hilton and Bellevue, we know exactly where that place is. You building the Cub app. You could say, I'm gonna check in here and we are verified. We know that that's the >>Right place. So that's a good for developer if they're building an app. >>Absolutely. So we have an SDK that any developer can integrate. >>Great. Okay. So what's the relationship with the marketplace? Take us through how Foursquare works with AWS marketplace. >>Sure. So we are primarily integrated with ADX, which is sort of a piece of marketplace it's for data specifically, we have both of our main products, which are places that POI database and visits, which is how people move through those places over time. So we're able to say these are the top chains in the country. Here's how people move throughout those. And both those products are listed on ADX. >>So if I'm in Palo Alto and I go to Joe in the juice yeah. You know that I kind of hang in one spot or is it privacy there? I mean, how do you know like what goes on? Well, >>We know somebody does that. We don't >>Know that you do that. So >>We ensure, you know, we're very privacy centric and privacy focused. We're not gonna, we don't tell anybody at you >>Yourself it's pattern data. It is. >>Okay. So it's normalized data, right? Over time groups of people, >>How they, how are people using the data to improve processes, user experience? What are some of the use cases? >>So that example, nextdoor, that's really a use case that we see a lot and that's improving their application. So that nextdoor app to ensure that the ACC, the data's accurate and that as you, as a user, you know, that that business is real. Cuz it's verified by four wear. Another one is you can use our data to make business decisions around where you're gonna place your next loca. You know, your next QSR. So young brands is a customer of ours. Those are, those guys are pizza hut KFC. They work with us to figure out where they should put their next KFC. Yeah. >>I mean retail location, location, location. Yeah. >>Right. Yeah. People are still, even though e-commerce right. People still go into stores >>And still are. Yeah. There's, there's, there's probably lot, a lot of math involved in knowing demographics patterns. Volume. >>Yeah. Some of our key customers are really data scientists. Like the think about cus with businesses that have true data science companies. They're really looking at that. >>Yeah. I mean in, and out's on the exit for a reason. Right. They want in and out. Yeah. So they wanna put it inland. >>Right. And we can actually tell you where that customer from in and out where they go next. Right. So then, you know, oh, they go to this park or they go somewhere and we can help you place your next in and out based on that visitation. >>Yeah. And so it's real science involved. So take us through the customers. You said data scientists, >>Mostly data scientists is kind of a key customer data science at a large corporation, like a QSR that's >>Somebody. Okay. So how is the procurement process on the marketplace? What does the buyer get? >>So what we see the real value is, is because they're already a customer of Amazon. That procurement is really easy, right? All the fulfillment goes through Amazon, through ADX. And what you're buying is either at API. So you can, that API can make real time calls or you're buying a flat file, like an actual database of those hundred points of interest. >>And then they integrate into their tool set. Right. They can do it. So it's pretty data friendly in terms of format. >>You can kind of do whatever you want with it. We're gonna give you that as long as you're smart enough to figure out what to do. Do we have a >>Lot of, so what's your experience with AWS marketplace? I mean, obviously we, we see a lot of changes. They had a reorg partner network merging with marketplace. You've been more on the data exchange, Chris kind of called that out. It's yeah. It's kind of a new thing. And, and he was hinting at a lot of confusion, but simplifying things. Yeah. What's your take of the current AWS marketplace >>Religions? I actually think ADX because our experience has primarily been ADX. I think they've done a really good job. They've really focused on the data and they understand how CU, how, you know, people like us sell our data. It hasn't been super confusing. We've had a lot of support. I think that's what Amazon gives you. You have to put a lot of effort into it, but they're also, they also give you a lot of support. >>Yeah. And, and I think data exchange is pretty significant to the strategic. It is >>Mission. It is. We feel that. Yeah. You know, we feel like they really value us as a partner. >>What's the big thing you're seeing out there right now in data, because like you're seeing a lot more data exchanges going on. There's always been data exchange, but you're seeing a lot more exchanges between companies. So let's just take partners. You're seeing a lot more people handle front end of a, a supply chain and you got more data exchanges. What's the future of data exchanges. If you had to kind of, you know, guess given your history in, in the industry. Yeah. What's the next around the corner trend? >>I think. Well, I think there's a, has to be consolidation. I know everyone's building one, but there's probably too many. I know from our experience, we can't support all of them. We're not a huge company. We can't support Amazon and X and Y and Z. Like it's just too many. So we kind of put all of our eggs in a couple baskets. So I think there'll be consolidation. I think there has to be just some innovation on what data products are, you know, for us, we have these two, it's an API and a flat file. I think as exchanges think about, you know, expanding what are the other types of data products that can help us build? >>Yeah. I mean, one of the things that's, you know, we see, we cover a lot of on the cube is edge. You know, you got, yeah. Amazon putting out new products in regions, you got new wavelength out there, you got regions, you got city level connectivity, data coming from cars. So a lot more IOT data. How do you guys see that folding into your vision of data acquisition and data usage, leverage, reuse, durability. These >>Are, yeah. I mean, we're, we are keeping an eye on all of that. You know, I think we haven't quite figured out how we wanna allocate resources against it, but you know, it's definitely, it's a really interesting space to be in. Like, I don't think data's going anywhere and I think it's really just gonna grow and how people use it's >>Gonna expand. Okay. So if I'm a customer, I go to the marketplace, I wanna buy four square data. What's the pitch. >>We can help you improve your business decisions or your applications through location data. We know where places are and how people move through the world over time. So we can tell you we're, we're sure that this is the Hilton in Bellevue. We know that, that we know how many people are moving through here and that's really the pitch. >>And they use that for whatever their needs are, business improvement, user experience. Yeah. >>Those are really the primary. I mean, we also have some financial use cases. So hedge funds, maybe they're thinking about yeah. How they wanna invest their money. They're gonna look at visits over time to understand what people are doing. Right. The pandemic made that super important. >>Yeah. That's awesome. Well, this is great. Great success story. Congratulations. And thanks for sharing on the cube. Really appreciate you coming on. Thank you. My final question is more about kind of the future. I wanna get your thoughts because your season pro, when you have the confluence of physical and digital coming together. Yeah. You know, I was just talking with a friend about FedEx's earnings, comparing that to say, AWS has a fleet of delivery too. Right? Amazon, Amazon nots. So, but physical world only products location matters. But then what about the person when they're walking around the real world? What happens when they get to the metaverses or, you know, they get to digital, they tend an event. Yeah. How do you see that crossroad? Cuz you have foot in both camps. We do, you got the app and you got the physical world it's gonna come together. Is there thoughts around, you can take your course care hat off and put your industry hat on. Yeah. You wanna answer that? Not officially on behalf of Foursquare, but I'm just curious, this is a, this is the confluence of like the blending of physical and digital. >>Yeah. I know. Wow. I admittedly haven't thought a whole lot about that. I think it would be really weird if I could track myself over time and the metaverse I mean, I think, yeah, as you said, it's >>It's, by the way, I'm not Bo on the metaverse when it's blocked diagrams, when you have gaming platforms that are like the best visual experience possible, right? >>Yeah. I mean, I think it, I think we'll see, I don't, I don't know that I have a >>Prediction, well hybrid we've seeing a lot of hybrid events. Like this event is still intimate VIP, but next year I guarantee it's gonna be larger, much larger and it's gonna be physical and face to face, but, but digital right as well. Yeah. Not people experiencing the, both that first party, physical, digital hybrid. Yeah. And it's interesting something that we track a lot >>Of. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I think we'll have a, well, I think we'll, there's something there for us. I think that those there's a play there as we watch kind >>Of things change. All right, Leah, thank you for coming on the Q appreciate so much it all right. With four Graham, John fur a year checking in with four square here on the cube here at the Amazon web services marketplace seller conference. Second year back from the pandemic in person, more coverage after this break.

>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is "Breaking Analysis" with Dave Vellante. >> Snowflake Summit 2022 underscored that the ecosystem excitement which was once forming around Hadoop is being reborn, escalated and coalescing around Snowflake's data cloud. What was once seen as a simpler cloud data warehouse and good marketing with the data cloud is evolving rapidly with new workloads of vertical industry focus, data applications, monetization, and more. The question is, will the promise of data be fulfilled this time around, or is it same wine, new bottle? Hello, and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights powered by ETR. In this "Breaking Analysis," we'll talk about the event, the announcements that Snowflake made that are of greatest interest, the major themes of the show, what was hype and what was real, the competition, and some concerns that remain in many parts of the ecosystem and pockets of customers. First let's look at the overall event. It was held at Caesars Forum. Not my favorite venue, but I'll tell you it was packed. Fire Marshall Full, as we sometimes say. Nearly 10,000 people attended the event. Here's Snowflake's CMO Denise Persson on theCUBE describing how this event has evolved. >> Yeah, two, three years ago, we were about 1800 people at a Hilton in San Francisco. We had about 40 partners attending. This week we're close to 10,000 attendees here. Almost 10,000 people online as well, and over over 200 partners here on the show floor. >> Now, those numbers from 2019 remind me of the early days of Hadoop World, which was put on by Cloudera but then Cloudera handed off the event to O'Reilly as this article that we've inserted, if you bring back that slide would say. The headline it almost got it right. Hadoop World was a failure, but it didn't have to be. Snowflake has filled the void created by O'Reilly when it first killed Hadoop World, and killed the name and then killed Strata. Now, ironically, the momentum and excitement from Hadoop's early days, it probably could have stayed with Cloudera but the beginning of the end was when they gave the conference over to O'Reilly. We can't imagine Frank Slootman handing the keys to the kingdom to a third party. Serious business was done at this event. I'm talking substantive deals. Salespeople from a host sponsor and the ecosystems that support these events, they love physical. They really don't like virtual because physical belly to belly means relationship building, pipeline, and deals. And that was blatantly obvious at this show. And in fairness, all theCUBE events that we've done year but this one was more vibrant because of its attendance and the action in the ecosystem. Ecosystem is a hallmark of a cloud company, and that's what Snowflake is. We asked Frank Slootman on theCUBE, was this ecosystem evolution by design or did Snowflake just kind of stumble into it? Here's what he said. >> Well, when you are a data clouding, you have data, people want to do things with that data. They don't want just run data operations, populate dashboards, run reports. Pretty soon they want to build applications and after they build applications, they want build businesses on it. So it goes on and on and on. So it drives your development to enable more and more functionality on that data cloud. Didn't start out that way, you know, we were very, very much focused on data operations. Then it becomes application development and then it becomes, hey, we're developing whole businesses on this platform. So similar to what happened to Facebook in many ways. >> So it sounds like it was maybe a little bit of both. The Facebook analogy is interesting because Facebook is a walled garden, as is Snowflake, but when you come into that garden, you have assurances that things are going to work in a very specific way because a set of standards and protocols is being enforced by a steward, i.e. Snowflake. This means things run better inside of Snowflake than if you try to do all the integration yourself. Now, maybe over time, an open source version of that will come out but if you wait for that, you're going to be left behind. That said, Snowflake has made moves to make its platform more accommodating to open source tooling in many of its announcements this week. Now, I'm not going to do a deep dive on the announcements. Matt Sulkins from Monte Carlo wrote a decent summary of the keynotes and a number of analysts like Sanjeev Mohan, Tony Bear and others are posting some deeper analysis on these innovations, and so we'll point to those. I'll say a few things though. Unistore extends the type of data that can live in the Snowflake data cloud. It's enabled by a new feature called hybrid tables, a new table type in Snowflake. One of the big knocks against Snowflake was it couldn't handle and transaction data. Several database companies are creating this notion of a hybrid where both analytic and transactional workloads can live in the same data store. Oracle's doing this for example, with MySQL HeatWave and there are many others. We saw Mongo earlier this month add an analytics capability to its transaction system. Mongo also added sequel, which was kind of interesting. Here's what Constellation Research analyst Doug Henschen said about Snowflake's moves into transaction data. Play the clip. >> Well with Unistore, they're reaching out and trying to bring transactional data in. Hey, don't limit this to analytical information and there's other ways to do that like CDC and streaming but they're very closely tying that again to that marketplace, with the idea of bring your data over here and you can monetize it. Don't just leave it in that transactional database. So another reach to a broader play across a big community that they're building. >> And you're also seeing Snowflake expand its workload types in its unique way and through Snowpark and its stream lit acquisition, enabling Python so that native apps can be built in the data cloud and benefit from all that structure and the features that Snowflake is built in. Hence that Facebook analogy, or maybe the App Store, the Apple App Store as I propose as well. Python support also widens the aperture for machine intelligence workloads. We asked Snowflake senior VP of product, Christian Kleinerman which announcements he thought were the most impactful. And despite the who's your favorite child nature of the question, he did answer. Here's what he said. >> I think the native applications is the one that looks like, eh, I don't know about it on the surface but he has the biggest potential to change everything. That's create an entire ecosystem of solutions for within a company or across companies that I don't know that we know what's possible. >> Snowflake also announced support for Apache Iceberg, which is a new open table format standard that's emerging. So you're seeing Snowflake respond to these concerns about its lack of openness, and they're building optionality into their cloud. They also showed some cost op optimization tools both from Snowflake itself and from the ecosystem, notably Capital One which launched a software business on top of Snowflake focused on optimizing cost and eventually the rollout data management capabilities, and all kinds of features that Snowflake announced that the show around governance, cross cloud, what we call super cloud, a new security workload, and they reemphasize their ability to read non-native on-prem data into Snowflake through partnerships with Dell and Pure and a lot more. Let's hear from some of the analysts that came on theCUBE this week at Snowflake Summit to see what they said about the announcements and their takeaways from the event. This is Dave Menninger, Sanjeev Mohan, and Tony Bear, roll the clip. >> Our research shows that the majority of organizations, the majority of people do not have access to analytics. And so a couple of the things they've announced I think address those or help to address those issues very directly. So Snowpark and support for Python and other languages is a way for organizations to embed analytics into different business processes. And so I think that'll be really beneficial to try and get analytics into more people's hands. And I also think that the native applications as part of the marketplace is another way to get applications into people's hands rather than just analytical tools. Because most people in the organization are not analysts. They're doing some line of business function. They're HR managers, they're marketing people, they're sales people, they're finance people, right? They're not sitting there mucking around in the data, they're doing a job and they need analytics in that job. >> Primarily, I think it is to contract this whole notion that once you move data into Snowflake, it's a proprietary format. So I think that's how it started but it's usually beneficial to the customers, to the users because now if you have large amount of data in paket files you can leave it on S3, but then you using the Apache Iceberg table format in Snowflake, you get all the benefits of Snowflake's optimizer. So for example, you get the micro partitioning, you get the metadata. And in a single query, you can join, you can do select from a Snowflake table union and select from an iceberg table and you can do store procedure, user defined function. So I think what they've done is extremely interesting. Iceberg by itself still does not have multi-table transactional capabilities. So if I'm running a workload, I might be touching 10 different tables. So if I use Apache Iceberg in a raw format, they don't have it, but Snowflake does. So the way I see it is Snowflake is adding more and more capabilities right into the database. So for example, they've gone ahead and added security and privacy. So you can now create policies and do even cell level masking, dynamic masking, but most organizations have more than Snowflake. So what we are starting to see all around here is that there's a whole series of data catalog companies, a bunch of companies that are doing dynamic data masking, security and governance, data observability which is not a space Snowflake has gone into. So there's a whole ecosystem of companies that is mushrooming. Although, you know, so they're using the native capabilities of Snowflake but they are at a level higher. So if you have a data lake and a cloud data warehouse and you have other like relational databases, you can run these cross platform capabilities in that layer. So that way, you know, Snowflake's done a great job of enabling that ecosystem. >> I think it's like the last mile, essentially. In other words, it's like, okay, you have folks that are basically that are very comfortable with Tableau but you do have developers who don't want to have to shell out to a separate tool. And so this is where Snowflake is essentially working to address that constituency. To Sanjeev's point, and I think part of it, this kind of plays into it is what makes this different from the Hadoop era is the fact that all these capabilities, you know, a lot of vendors are taking it very seriously to put this native. Now, obviously Snowflake acquired Streamlit. So we can expect that the Streamlit capabilities are going to be native. >> I want to share a little bit about the higher level thinking at Snowflake, here's a chart from Frank Slootman's keynote. It's his version of the modern data stack, if you will. Now, Snowflake of course, was built on the public cloud. If there were no AWS, there would be no Snowflake. Now, they're all about bringing data and live data and expanding the types of data, including structured, we just heard about that, unstructured, geospatial, and the list is going to continue on and on. Eventually I think it's going to bleed into the edge if we can figure out what to do with that edge data. Executing on new workloads is a big deal. They started with data sharing and they recently added security and they've essentially created a PaaS layer. We call it a SuperPaaS layer, if you will, to attract application developers. Snowflake has a developer-focused event coming up in November and they've extended the marketplace with 1300 native apps listings. And at the top, that's the holy grail, monetization. We always talk about building data products and we saw a lot of that at this event, very, very impressive and unique. Now here's the thing. There's a lot of talk in the press, in the Wall Street and the broader community about consumption-based pricing and concerns over Snowflake's visibility and its forecast and how analytics may be discretionary. But if you're a company building apps in Snowflake and monetizing like Capital One intends to do, and you're now selling in the marketplace, that is not discretionary, unless of course your costs are greater than your revenue for that service, in which case is going to fail anyway. But the point is we're entering a new error where data apps and data products are beginning to be built and Snowflake is attempting to make the data cloud the defacto place as to where you're going to build them. In our view they're well ahead in that journey. Okay, let's talk about some of the bigger themes that we heard at the event. Bringing apps to the data instead of moving the data to the apps, this was a constant refrain and one that certainly makes sense from a physics point of view. But having a single source of data that is discoverable, sharable and governed with increasingly robust ecosystem options, it doesn't have to be moved. Sometimes it may have to be moved if you're going across regions, but that's unique and a differentiator for Snowflake in our view. I mean, I'm yet to see a data ecosystem that is as rich and growing as fast as the Snowflake ecosystem. Monetization, we talked about that, industry clouds, financial services, healthcare, retail, and media, all front and center at the event. My understanding is that Frank Slootman was a major force behind this shift, this development and go to market focus on verticals. It's really an attempt, and he talked about this in his keynote to align with the customer mission ultimately align with their objectives which not surprisingly, are increasingly monetizing with data as a differentiating ingredient. We heard a ton about data mesh, there were numerous presentations about the topic. And I'll say this, if you map the seven pillars Snowflake talks about, Benoit Dageville talked about this in his keynote, but if you map those into Zhamak Dehghani's data mesh framework and the four principles, they align better than most of the data mesh washing that I've seen. The seven pillars, all data, all workloads, global architecture, self-managed, programmable, marketplace and governance. Those are the seven pillars that he talked about in his keynote. All data, well, maybe with hybrid tables that becomes more of a reality. Global architecture means the data is globally distributed. It's not necessarily physically in one place. Self-managed is key. Self-service infrastructure is one of Zhamak's four principles. And then inherent governance. Zhamak talks about computational, what I'll call automated governance, built in. And with all the talk about monetization, that aligns with the second principle which is data as product. So while it's not a pure hit and to its credit, by the way, Snowflake doesn't use data mesh in its messaging anymore. But by the way, its customers do, several customers talked about it. Geico, JPMC, and a number of other customers and partners are using the term and using it pretty closely to the concepts put forth by Zhamak Dehghani. But back to the point, they essentially, Snowflake that is, is building a proprietary system that substantially addresses some, if not many of the goals of data mesh. Okay, back to the list, supercloud, that's our term. We saw lots of examples of clouds on top of clouds that are architected to spin multiple clouds, not just run on individual clouds as separate services. And this includes Snowflake's data cloud itself but a number of ecosystem partners that are headed in a very similar direction. Snowflake still talks about data sharing but now it uses the term collaboration in its high level messaging, which is I think smart. Data sharing is kind of a geeky term. And also this is an attempt by Snowflake to differentiate from everyone else that's saying, hey, we do data sharing too. And finally Snowflake doesn't say data marketplace anymore. It's now marketplace, accounting for its application market. Okay, let's take a quick look at the competitive landscape via this ETR X-Y graph. Vertical access remembers net score or spending momentum and the x-axis is penetration, pervasiveness in the data center. That's what ETR calls overlap. Snowflake continues to lead on the vertical axis. They guide it conservatively last quarter, remember, so I wouldn't be surprised if that lofty height, even though it's well down from its earlier levels but I wouldn't be surprised if it ticks down again a bit in the July survey, which will be in the field shortly. Databricks is a key competitor obviously at a strong spending momentum, as you can see. We didn't draw it here but we usually draw that 40% line or red line at 40%, anything above that is considered elevated. So you can see Databricks is quite elevated. But it doesn't have the market presence of Snowflake. It didn't get to IPO during the bubble and it doesn't have nearly as deep and capable go-to market machinery. Now, they're getting better and they're getting some attention in the market, nonetheless. But as a private company, you just naturally, more people are aware of Snowflake. Some analysts, Tony Bear in particular, believe Mongo and Snowflake are on a bit of a collision course long term. I actually can see his point. You know, I mean, they're both platforms, they're both about data. It's long ways off, but you can see them sort of in a similar path. They talk about kind of similar aspirations and visions even though they're quite in different markets today but they're definitely participating in similar tam. The cloud players are probably the biggest or definitely the biggest partners and probably the biggest competitors to Snowflake. And then there's always Oracle. Doesn't have the spending velocity of the others but it's got strong market presence. It owns a cloud and it knows a thing about data and it definitely is a go-to market machine. Okay, we're going to end on some of the things that we heard in the ecosystem. 'Cause look, we've heard before how particular technology, enterprise data warehouse, data hubs, MDM, data lakes, Hadoop, et cetera. We're going to solve all of our data problems and of course they didn't. And in fact, sometimes they create more problems that allow vendors to push more incremental technology to solve the problems that they created. Like tools and platforms to clean up the no schema on right nature of data lakes or data swamps. But here are some of the things that I heard firsthand from some customers and partners. First thing is, they said to me that they're having a hard time keeping up sometimes with the pace of Snowflake. It reminds me of AWS in 2014, 2015 timeframe. You remember that fire hose of announcements which causes increased complexity for customers and partners. I talked to several customers that said, well, yeah this is all well and good but I still need skilled people to understand all these tools that I'm integrated in the ecosystem, the catalogs, the machine learning observability. A number of customers said, I just can't use one governance tool, I need multiple governance tools and a lot of other technologies as well, and they're concerned that that's going to drive up their cost and their complexity. I heard other concerns from the ecosystem that it used to be sort of clear as to where they could add value you know, when Snowflake was just a better data warehouse. But to point number one, they're either concerned that they'll be left behind or they're concerned that they'll be subsumed. Look, I mean, just like we tell AWS customers and partners, you got to move fast, you got to keep innovating. If you don't, you're going to be left. Either if your customer you're going to be left behind your competitor, or if you're a partner, somebody else is going to get there or AWS is going to solve the problem for you. Okay, and there were a number of skeptical practitioners, really thoughtful and experienced data pros that suggested that they've seen this movie before. That's hence the same wine, new bottle. Well, this time around I certainly hope not given all the energy and investment that is going into this ecosystem. And the fact is Snowflake is unquestionably making it easier to put data to work. They built on AWS so you didn't have to worry about provisioning, compute and storage and networking and scaling. Snowflake is optimizing its platform to take advantage of things like Graviton so you don't have to, and they're doing some of their own optimization tools. The ecosystem is building optimization tools so that's all good. And firm belief is the less expensive it is, the more data will get brought into the data cloud. And they're building a data platform on which their ecosystem can build and run data applications, aka data products without having to worry about all the hard work that needs to get done to make data discoverable, shareable, and governed. And unlike the last 10 years, you don't have to be a keeper and integrate all the animals in the Hadoop zoo. Okay, that's it for today, thanks for watching. Thanks to my colleague, Stephanie Chan who helps research "Breaking Analysis" topics. Sometimes Alex Myerson is on production and manages the podcasts. Kristin Martin and Cheryl Knight help get the word out on social and in our newsletters, and Rob Hof is our editor in chief over at Silicon, and Hailey does some wonderful editing, thanks to all. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcasts wherever you listen. All you got to do is search Breaking Analysis Podcasts. I publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com and you can email me at David.Vellante@siliconangle.com or DM me @DVellante. If you got something interesting, I'll respond. If you don't, I'm sorry I won't. Or comment on my LinkedIn post. Please check out etr.ai for the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching, and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>>Hello from the show floor in Las Vegas. This is the snowflake summit 22 at Caesar's forum. We've been live the last day and a half. Lisa Martin here with Dave ante covering a lot of ground. We're so excited to have the chief marketing officer at snowflake. Join us next, Denise Pearson. And welcome back to the cube. >>Thank you so much. So great to be here with you. So great to have you here at SEL meets as well. Thank >>You. That's unreal. Isn't it? Yeah. I mean, everybody's so excited to be face to face and you know, Lisa and I have been doing a few of these shows, but we, we hear the same thing over and over. It's like, oh, so good to be back, right? Yeah. >>Well, even in the keynote yesterday, when we got in, we saw a standing room only there were overflows. People are ready to hear from snowflake in person. And as we were, you were just talking with Frank, I think the 2019 show had less than 2000 people. And now here we are at close to 10,000, this step leap factor in terms of the audience and also the momentum of the company, the capabilities, lot of growth in that timeframe. Yeah, >>No. Yeah. Two, three years ago we were about 1800 people out to Hilton and San Francisco. We had about 40 partners attending this week were close to 10,000 at this year, almost 10,000 people online as well. And over over 200 partners here on the show floor, >>Right? 250 plus sessions, breakouts, keynotes, technical certifications, developer zone, a lot going on here. The buzz has been enormous from yesterday morning. It still is today. Talk about the theme of the event, the world of data collaboration. We've been talking a lot about data collaboration. Yeah. But from Snowflake's perspective, as Dave you've pointed out, that really seems like quite a differentiation of where snowflake is versus the guys in the root view mirror. Yeah. Number >>One of the very unique capabilities with snowflake is that the ability to share data with each other within your ecosystem. So you can both collaborate now on, on with your data, but also collaborate on building in a new business opportunities set together. So I think it's really a message that we, we, we fully fully own. It' really unique differentiator as well. So >>You used to talk about, you still talk about data sharing, but just kind of evolve the messaging to collaboration, explain why and, and how is that a wider scope and more appealing to the ecosystem in your >>Customers? I mean, data sharing is a terminology used for, for years and years, sounds from any data sharing it's about using, you know, FTP or, you know, APIs, those things. And we of course do it in a very, very different way where, where you do it without, you know, APIs so that you can share data with anyone in your ecosystem, without the data actually ever leaving, ever leaving your, your instance. So it's in a very different way. And also the fact that you can, again, you know, build applications together with other companies, you know, in your ecosystem. And it's a, it's a true collaboration around, you know, data in a way we've never seen before >>The other subtle change was data marketplace to marketplace. Why that change explain kind of what's behind that. >>Yeah. One of our big announcements here this week is around building native, you know, data apps and all snowflakes. Now you can both, you know, build the apps and you can distribute them and monetizing them in our marketplace. So in the past, you know, we only really had data sets within our marketplace within the data marketplace at that time. So you could now, you know, we can publish your data, you could monetize your data, but again, now moving forward, you will also be able to again, build apps and distribute them in the marketplace and also monetize them. And for Mon many startups, right? The, the big challenge is just a monetization piece as well. You build your product. You also need to find a way to, to both distribute and, and monetize it, an invoice for that product. And we solve all that for, for our customers. Now, >>A lot of customer growth, I saw Frank's slide yesterday over 5,900. I think you have 500 plus in the Forbes global 2000, a tremendous amount of growth in customers with a million plus ARR. Yes. >>Where >>Are the customers and the ecosystem in terms of that, that what you just described in the, going from the data marketplace to the marketplace are customers and, and the ecosystem influential in saying, Hey, snowflake, we need to go in this direction. >>Yeah. And also one key thing also with larger companies, they have their own marketplaces built, you know, snowflake as well. So you don't have to publish your, your, your data or app on our marketplace. The many of our larger companies, they're building those own marketplaces around themselves, you know, to distribute their data, you know, to their partners. So there are many ways you can, again, distribute and monetize their data. >>What are the marketing challenges? You, you started out kind of better data where simpler data warehouse, cloud data, warehouse, zero to snowflake was kind of the, the messaging and then the rise of the data cloud. And now it's all about applications. You're obviously building on top of that, but how, how have you, how do you think about that sort of messaging architecture going, you know, where you've come from and going forward? >>Yeah. Obviously the capabilities of the data cloud is kind of building and building it every day. And it's also a positioning that we can, you know, grow with as well. The big difference, you know, for us over the past two years is really that we are more and more really talking to the, to the business side, you know, of our, our customers that that's really where the demand is coming from. And we're truly, you know, with the data cloud, we're truly, you know, build bringing the business side and the it side together to solve these, you know, problems. And also, also together with all our partners as well. >>And I was just gonna ask you what, what's the partners role in the data cloud narrative? How do they help accomplish that? >>I would say, I mean, the data cloud is all about the partners it's, and also this event here, this event is not about, you know, snowflake it's about really our partners, you know, and our customers, you know, coming together, the data cloud is really it's. The foundation is of course, you know, the core capabilities, our platform, but then it's also all, all the data that is in there that other companies can access from our customers, but then all the applications and capabilities that are built, you know, by our partners and also our partners like the, you know, or the SI partners that are here, they are the ones, you know, doing the work, you know, with our customers, they are the ones that are, you know, migrating the data to, to snowflake and the data cloud and helping these companies build this new, you know, business model. So snowflake is a very, very partner first company. And the only thing I really care about this week here is that all this, you know, 200 partners here that they're gonna be tremendous successful if they're successful. That means that, you know, all our customers are successful as well. >>So how is your digital strategy evolving and how do you include the partners in that? >>Yeah, I mean, we learned so much over the past, you know, three, three years in regards to that. So, I mean, we all had to just accelerate our, the, the digital growth, you know, of our marketing capabilities and how to do that in a, with our, our partners. So with many of them, you know, we started developing this joint account based digital, you know, marketing program. Some, we just all had to adapt and innovate really fast, and we're gonna continue, of course, a lot of those motions as well. But at the same time, there's nothing like being out and meeting, you know, customers, you know, face to face. And what's also so important is the alignment we have with our local sales organization and our partners as well. So all these marketing programs that we develop in the fields, those are us again, opportunities cannot build those relationships as well. >>Can you talk about the sales marketing alignment at snowflake? I think it seems to be pretty strong, but we've talked a lot in the last day and a half about the retail data cloud healthcare life sciences, media finance. Talk to us about the marketing sales element, how marketing is facilitating, maybe from a campaign perspective, some of those big sales plays in the S yeah, >>Maybe both unique here. Our C Chris Dham, I think has been here early on the show. I mean, we work together for over six years now and we truly work as one, one team. We, we don't really even see the lines between sort of sales and marketings. We truly share exactly, you know, the same objectives every day. We share the same focus on, on putting our customers and our partners, you know, first, every day, his priorities, you know, are my priorities, you know, vice versa. And I think the biggest challenges we see often in some companies between sales and marketing, is that they're just shifting or it's different, you know, priorities. It's so important just to align the priorities and for us to making sure that our teams are all around the world now, or as aligned, you know, as Chris and I are as well, >>Couple other, yeah. Milestones or events come up, you're doing like, you're doing a worldwide tour and you got the dev conference in November, start with the worldwide tour. What's that all about? >>So we get little break near now, here for, for a couple of weeks. And then we're taking all the best of content here for, from, from summits and also all in our partners on a worldwide tour. We're starting in, in Asia, in August, and we're gonna target over 20 cities around the world. So, and again, I think this year, the challenge was many of our European customers and our customers in Asia. They couldn't make it. So we have smaller numbers, you know, coming from those regions. So it's more, more important than ever that we just come out to them, you know, instead, and bring this content in to them. >>Is that all face to face or at Lisa is all face to face. Is there a digital component as well? Yeah, >>It's actually gonna be all face to face and there will be some, some digital components as well. We're ending the tour in San Francisco. And that's also where we go doing all our winter announcements, you know, as well. And also our build our developer conference. That will be all virtual. The big, the global one will be all virtual at the same time, you know, from San Francisco. >>Okay. Am I confusing that with the November developer conference or >>The, that is, that is the conference, but it, that one will be virtual this year. Okay. >>So dev the build is all virtual. >>Yeah. Build be all virtual. And it's just, so we have that opportunity to reach as many people as we possibly can. >>And then is the, is this, is the intent to eventually bring them in to one place? >>Absolutely. I mean, I think the dev conference, the plan is to really take that around the world, you know, as well. We're seeing markets like Israel, for instance, there's a massive developer community that is, that is looking at snowflake right now. Markets like Indonesia, big developer segment as well. So I think it's not about, you know, having people come to us, it's about we, you know, coming out to them. So markets like Israel and Indonesia. And >>Will you also in future summits include a, a development component. You probably have something here. I just haven't seen it yet, but, but like the conference within the conference, or is it more, Hey, we want to cater to the t-shirt crowd, you know, separately, what do you, yeah, >>I think we cater to them separately. And I said again, that we it's really about taking our content, you know, out, out to them. And when we're talking about the developer audience, we're talking about hundreds and thousands of people and they can't physically, you know, come here. So our plan is really to come out and meet them where they are. How >>Did you make the decision to do this summit fourth annual in person? I'm sure the attendance figures are probably blowing your mind, but that's a, that's a big decision and that's a challenging decision to make. How did they go about doing that? >>I think, I think if there was one thing we've learned during the past three years, it's really about that. Adaptability is the new superpower, you know, of bus business. So of course we've had to adapt, you know, you know, every month. And of course, even two months ago, we were not sure, you know, how, how many people that will be able to come here today, but we're incredibly happy. Were they, were they, were they with the number of people that, you know, came here and yeah, we're already storing planning for next year. >>I mean, it definitely must have exceeded your expectations. Is that fair? Or >>We set expectations high. Yeah. Okay. But again, it's that unknown that we all had to deal with, you know, every day. And I think we're gonna continue to have to, to live with that. >>Yeah. Well, this is, yeah, this is one of the largest shows we've done. Yeah. SIM it's a reinvent, obviously different. That was last year, but this year, this is the biggest event I think we've been to, and we've been to some big brand events, so yeah. Yeah. Punching above the weight as usual. >>Yeah. And again, I wanna just give a big shout out to our whole, you know, partner ecosystem, you know, here, because again, this is very much of an ecosystem, you know, partner you in a conference and it's really all our 200 plus partners here making this conference, what it is. I mean, today >>It's remarkable to pace at which you've been able to grow the ecosystem, but why do you think that is? What's the secret there? >>I think we fully understand that we don't solve all the problems ourselves, you know, for, for our customers. It's really an ecosystem of, of products and services that solve those problems and customers. They are looking for vendors that partner well with others. They're looking for vendors that integrate well, you know, with each other. So we always have an outside in view on things and that's something we challenge ourselves every morning. We wake up, how do we put ourselves in the customer's shoes in terms of, of, of their needs and their problems and how to solve those? We don't solve them alone. We, we solve them with these 200 plus in apart. Make >>It sound so simple. >>Speaking of challenges, you have something called the startup challenge. That's in its second annual >>Yes. Tomorrow we're kicking off the, the final of the second annual startup challenge. We have three finalists here, three very different, you know, companies. And we had a couple hundred applications this year and we have everything from a company that makes AI and ML more accessible to a company, focus on, you know, retail, you know, analytics. It's gonna be very exciting tomorrow, big price for the winner. The winner is going to win a million dollar of investment from, from snowflake ventures. So >>Very exciting. It's a nice incentive. It is a nice incentive, >>Very nice incentive. And also all the exposure you will get as well. We will put a lot of our marketing support, you know, behind this companies as well. >>Excellent. >>And now the data driver awards program, we've had a couple of data drivers on the program in the last day >>And a half. Yes. We announced to know those winners as well, you know, early in the week. So a lot of recognition for both our customers, but also we're gonna see, you know, the next interesting companies here to watch tomorrow during the startup challenge, you >>Get a little bit of something for everybody here, right? I mean the, the, the, the partner awards, right? These other little side opportunities for ecosystem to get recognition, sometimes funding it's >>Yeah. Everyone wants to be recognized, you know, for the great work they're doing. So, yeah. Yeah. >>So what's next for marketing, obviously, a break and then you start the, the road show. >>So of course yesterday we made an number of very, very large in announcements. Many of those, you know, we've been working on for years here at snowflake, like Unior, you know, for instance has been probably three years, you know, in the making. So our goal now is to take all those announcements to every customer around the world, both through, you know, local events really starting this week, and then also the world tour this fall. And it's gonna be a big, big focus on the developer segments. Obviously what our most exciting announcements is, the native apps, you know, capabilities. And that finally, you know, we can bring the work, you know, to the data and not again, taking the data to the work. And as you know, our mission has really been around breaking down the data silos. Cause those have been the biggest, you know, challenges companies have faced. That's really, what's been standing in the way for customers to become you a data Rav, and now bringing the work to the data from a developer's standpoint is gonna break down even further, those silos. So, >>Yeah. And it's good physics. >>Yeah. It good physics. Yeah. >>Yeah. Tremendous opportunity. Congratulations on a great successful event. It's not even done yet, but obviously we've seen so much success. Great news coming out. We'll be excited to be hearing some of the outcomes of the road show and the developer conference coming up in the fall. We appreciate your insights, your time and for having the cube here at the summit. >>Thank you for being here. Thank you. Thanks for having >>Me, our pleasure for Denise Pearson and Dave Valante I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cubes coverage of snowflake summit 22 live from Las Vegas, Dave and I will be back after a short break.

(bright upbeat music) >> Hello, welcome to theCUBE, "Unstoppable Domains Showcase." I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE. We got a great discussion here called the influencers around what's going on Web 3.0. And also this new sea change, cultural change around this next generation, internet, web, cloud, all happening, Jeremiah Owyang, Industry Analyst and Founding Part of Kaleido Insights. Jeremiah, great to see you thanks for coming on I appreciate it. Ren Besnard, Vice President of Marketing and Unstoppable Domains in the middle of all the action. Gentlemen, thanks for coming on on theCUBE for this showcase. >> Wow, my pleasure. >> Thanks for having us, John. >> Jeremiah, I want to start with you. You've seen many ways refer in all of your work for over a decade now. You've seen the Web 2.0 wave now the Web 3.0 is here. And it's not, I wouldn't say hyped up it's really just ramping up. And you're seeing real practical examples. You're in the middle of all the action. What is this Web 3.0, can you frame for us? I mean, you've seen many webs. What is Web 3.0 mean, what is it all about? >> Well John, you and I worked in the Web 2.0 space and essentially that enabled peer-to-peer media where people could upload their thoughts and ideas and videos without having to rely on centralized media. Unfortunately, that distributed and decentralized movement actually became centralized on the platform which are the big social networks and big tech companies. And this has caused an uproar because the people who are creating the content did not have control, could not control their identities, and could not really monetize or make decisions. So Web 3.0 which is a moniker of a lot of different trends, including crypto, blockchain and sometimes the metaverse. Is to undo the controlling that has become centralized. And the power is now shifting back into the hands of the participants again. And in this movement, they want to have more control over their identities, their governance, the content that they're creating, how they're actually building it, and then how they're monetizing it. So in many ways it's changing the power and it's a new economic model. So that's Web 3.0. Without really even mentioning the technologies. Is that helpful? >> Yeah, it's great. And Ren, we're talking about on theCUBE many times and one notable stat I don't think it's been reported, but it's been more kind of a rumor. I hear that 30% of the Berkeley computer science students are dropping out and going into to crypto or blockchain or decentralized startups. Which means that there's a big wave coming in of talent. You're seeing startups, you're seeing a lot more formation, you're seeing a lot more, I would say it's kind of ramping up of real people, not just people with dream is actual builders out here doing stuff. What's your take on the Web 3.0 movement with all this kind of change happening from people and also the new ideas being refactored? >> I think that the competition for talent is extremely real. And we start looking at the stats, we see that there is an enormous draft of people that are moving into this space. People that are fascinated by technology and are embracing the ethos of Web 3.0. And at this stage I think it's not only engineers and developers, but we have moved into a second phase where we see that a lot of supporting functions, you know, marketing being one of them, sales, business development are being built up quite rapidly. It's not without actually reminding me of the mid 2000s, you know. When I started working with Google, at that point in time the walled gardens rightly absorbing vast, vast cohorts of young graduates and more experienced professionals that were passionate and moving into the web environment. And I think we are seeing a movement right now, which is not entirely similar except faster. >> Yeah, Jeremiah, you've seen the conversations of the cloud, I call the cloud kind of revolution. You had mobile in 2007. But you got Amazon Web Services changed the application space on how people developed in the cloud. And again, that created a lot of value. Now you're seeing the role of data as a huge part of how people are scaling and the decentralized movements. So you've got cloud which is kind of classic today, state of the art enterprise and or app developers. And you've got now decentralized wave coming, okay. You're seeing apps being developed on that architecture. Data is central in all this, right. So how, how do you view this as someone who's watching the landscape, you know, these walled gardens are hoarding all the data I mean, LinkedIn, Facebook. They're not sharing that data with anyone they're using it for themselves. So as- >> That's right. >> They can control back comes to the forefront. How do you see this market with the applications and what comes out of that? >> So the thing that we seen out of the five things that I had mentioned that are decentralizing. (Jeremiah coughing) Are the ones that have been easier to move across. Have been the ability to monetize and to build. But the data aspect has actually stayed pretty much central, frankly. What has decentralized is that the contracts, the blockchain ledgers, those have decentralized. But the funny thing is often a big portion of these blockchain networks are on Amazon 63 to 70%, same thing with (indistinct). So they're still using the Web 2.0 architectures. However, we're also seeing other forms like IPFS where the data could be spread across a wider range of folks. But right now we're still dependent on what Web 2.0. So the vision and the promise Web 3.0 when it to full decentralization is not here by any means. I'd say we're at a Web 2.25. >> Pre-Web 3.0 no, but actions there. How do you guys see the dangers, 'cause there's a lot of negative press but also there's a lot of positive press. You're seeing a lot of fraud, we've seen a lot of the crypto fraud over the past years. You've seen a lot of now positive. It's almost a self-governance thing and environment, the way the culture is. But what are the dangers, how do you guys educate people, what should people pay attention to, what should people look for to understand, you know, where to position themselves? >> Yes, so we've learned a lot from Web 1.0, Web 2.0, the sharing economy. And we are walking into Web 3.0 with eyes wide open. So people have rightfully put forth a number of challenges, the sustainability issues with excess using of computing and mining the excessive amount of scams that are happening in part due to unknown identities. Also the architecture breaks DAOn in some periods and there's a lack of regulation. This is something different though. In the last periods that we've gone through, we didn't really know what was going to happen. And we walked and think this is going to be great. The sharing economy, the gig economy, the social media's going to change the world around. It's very different now. People are a little bit jaded. So I think that's a change. And so I think we're going to see that sorted out in suss out just like we've seen with other trends. It's still very much in the early years. >> Ren, I got to get your take on this whole should influencers and should people be anonymous or should they be docs out there? You saw the board, eight guys that did that were kind of docs a little bit there. And that went viral. This is an issue, right? Because we just had a problem of fake news, fake people, fake information. And now you have a much more secure environment imutability is a wonderful thing. It's a feature, not a bug, right? So how is this all coming down? And I know you guys are in the middle of it with NFTs as authentication. Take us, what's your take on this because this is a big issue. >> Look, I think first I am extremely optimistic about technology in general. So I'm super, super bullish about this. And yet, you know, I think that while crypto has so many upsides, it's important to be super conscious and aware of the downsides that come with it to, you know. If you think about every Fortune 500 company there is always training required by all employees on internet safety, reporting of potential attacks and so on. In Web 3.0, we don't have that kind of standard reporting mechanisms yet for bad actors in that space. And so when you think about influencers in particular, they do have a responsibility to educate people about the potential, but also the dangers of the technology of Web 3.0 of crypto basically. Whether you're talking about hacks or online safety, the need for hardware, wallet, impersonators on discord, you know, security storing your seed phrase. So every actor influencer or else has got a role to play. I think that in that context to your point, it's very hard to tell whether influencers should be anonymous, oxydemous or fully docked. The decentralized nature of Web 3.0 will probably lead us to see a combination of those anonymity levels so to speak. And the movements that we've seen around some influencers identities become public are particularly interesting. I think there's probably a convergence of Web 2.O and Web 3.0 at play here, you know. Maybe occurring on the notion of 2.5. But for now I think in Web 2.0, all business founders and employees are known and they held accountable for their public comments and their actions. If Web 3.0 enables us to be anonymous, if DAOs have voting control, you know. What happens if people make comments and there is no way to know who they are, basically. What if the DAO doesn't take appropriate action? I think eventually there will be an element of community self-regulation where influencers will be acting in the best interest of their reputation. And I believe that the communities will self-regulate themselves and will create natural boundaries around what can be said or not said. >> I think that's a really good point about influencers and reputation because. Jeremiah, does it matter that you're anonymous have an icon that could be a NFT or a picture. But if I have an ongoing reputation I have trust, to this trust there. It's not like just a bot that was created just to spam someone. You know I'm starting to getting into this new way. >> You're right, and that word you said trust, that's what really this is about. But we've seen that public docs, people with their full identities have made mistakes. They have pulled the hood over people's faces and really scammed them out of a lot of money. We've seen that in the, that doesn't change anything in human behavior. So I think over time that we will see a new form of a reputation system emerge even for pseudonym and perhaps for people that are just anonymous that only show their potential wallet, address a series of numbers and letters. That form might take a new form of a Web 3.0 FICO Score. And you could look at their behaviors. Did they transact, you know, how did they behave? Were they involved in projects that were not healthy? And because all of that information is public on the chain and you can go back in time and see that. We might see a new form of a scoring emerge, of course. Who controls that scoring? That's a whole nother topic gone on controling and trust. So right now, John we do see that there's a number of projects, new NFT projects, where the founders will claim and use this as a point of differentiation that they are fully docs. So you know who they are and in their names. Secondly, we're seeing a number of products or platforms that require KYC, you know, your customers. So that's self-identification often with a government ID or credit card in order to bridge out your coins and turn that into fiat. In some cases that's required in some of these marketplaces. So we're seeing a collision here between our full names and pseudonyms and being anonymous. >> That's awesome. And I think this is the new, again, a whole new form of governance. Ren, you mentioned some comments about DAO. I want to get your thoughts again. You know, Jeremiah we've become historians over the years. We're getting old I'm a little bit older than you. (Jeremiah laughs) But we've seen the- >> You're young men. You know, I remember breaking in the business when the computer standards bodies were built to be more organic and then they became much more of a, kind of an anti-innovation environment where people, the companies would get involved, the standards organization just to slow things DAO and mark things up a little bit. So, you know, you look at DAOs like, hmm, is DAO a good thing or a bad thing. The answer is from people I talk to is, it depends. So I'd love to get your thoughts on getting momentum and becoming defacto with value, a value proposition, vis-a-vis just a DAO for the sake of having a DAO. This has been a conversation that's been kind of in the inside the baseball here, inside the ropes of the industry, but there's trade offs. Can you guys share your thoughts on when to do a DAO and when not to do a DAO and the benefits and trade offs of that? >> Sure, maybe I'll start off with a definition and then we'll go to, Ren. So a DAO, a decentralized autonomous organization, the best way to think about this It's a digital cooperative. and we've heard of worker cooperatives before. The difference is that they're using blockchain technologies in order to do three things, identity, governance, and rewards and mechanisms. They're relying on Web 2.0 tools and technologies like discord and Telegram and social networks to communicate. And as a cooperative they're trying to come up with a common goal. Ren, what's your take, that's the setup. >> So, you know for me when I started my journey into crypto and Web 3.0, I had no idea about what DAO actually meant. And an easy way for me to think of it and to grasp the nature of it was about the comparison between a DAO and perhaps a more traditional company structure, you know. In the traditional company structure, you have (indistinct), the company's led by a CEO and other executives. The DAO is a flat structure, and it's very much led by a group of core contributors. So to Jeremiah's point, you know, you get that notion of a cooperative type of structure. The decision making is very different, you know. We're talking about a super high level of transparency proposals getting submitted and voting systems using (indistinct) as opposed to, you know, management, making decisions behind closed doors. I think that speaks to a totally new form of governance. And I think we have hardly, hardly scratched the surface. We have seen recently very interesting moments in Web 3.0 culture. And we have seen how DAO suddenly have to make certain decisions and come to moments of claiming responsibility in order to police behavior of some of the members. I think that's important. I think it's going to redefine how we're thinking about that particularly new governance models. And I think it's going to pave the way for a lot of super interesting structure in the near future. >> Yeah and that's a great point. >> Go ahead, Jeremiah. >> That's a great point, Ren. Around the transparency for governance. So, John you post the question, does this make things faster or slower? And right now in the most doubts are actually pretty slow because they're set up as a flat organization. So as a response to that they're actually shifting to become representative democracies. Does that sound familiar? Or you can appoint delegates and use tokens to vote for them and they have a decision power. Almost like a committee and they can function. And so we've seen actually there sometimes are hierarchy except the person at the top is voted by those that have the tokens. In some cases, the people at the top had the most tokens. But that's a whole nother topic. So we're seeing a wide variety of governance structures. >> You know, Ren I was talking with Matt G, the Founder of Unstoppable. And I was telling him about the Domain Name System. And one little trivia note that many people don't know about is that the US government 'cause the internet was started by the US. The Department of Commerce kept that on tight leash because the international telecommunications wanted to get their hands on it because of ccTLDs and other things. So at that time, 'cause the innovation yet was isn't yet baked out. It was organically growing the governance, the rules of the road, keeping it very stable versus melding with it. So there's certain technologies that require, Jeremiah that let's keep an eye on as a community let's not formalize anything. Like the government did with the Domain Name System. Let's keep it tight and then finally released it. I think multiple years after 2004, I think it went over to the ITU. But this is a big point. I mean, if you get too structured, organic innovation can't go. What's you guys reaction to that? >> So I think, you know to take the stab at it. We have as a business, you know, thinking of Unstoppable Domains, a strong incentive to innovate. And this is what is going to be determining long-term value growth for the organization, for partners, for users, for customers. So you know the degree of formalization actually gives us a sense of purpose and a sense of action. And if you compare that to DAO, for instance, you can see how some of the upsides and downsides can pan out either way. It's not to say that there is a perfect solution. I think one of the advantages of the DAO is that you can let more people contribute. You can probably remove buyers quite effectively and you can have a high level of participation and involvement in decisions and own the upside in many ways. You know as a company, it's a slightly different setup. We have the opportunity to coordinate a very diverse and part-time workforce in a very you a different way. And we do not have to deal with the inefficiencies that might be inherent to some form of extreme decentralization. So there is a balance from an organizational structure that comes either side. >> Awesome. Jeremiah, I want to get your thoughts on a trend that you've been involved in, we've both been involved in. And you're seeing it now with the kind of social media world, the world of the role of an influencer. It's kind of moved from what was open source and influencer was a connect to someone who shared, created content enabled things to much more of a vanity. You update the photo on Instagram and having a large audience. So is there a new influencer model with Web 3.0 or is it, I control the audience I'm making money that way. Is there a shift in the influencer role or ideas that you see that should be in place for what is the role of an influencer? 'Cause as Web 3.0 comes you're going to see that role become instrumental. We've seen it in open source projects. Influencers, you know, the people who write code or ship code. So what's your take on that? Because this has been a conversation. People have been having the word influencer and redefining and reframing it. >> Sure, the influence model really hasn't changed that much, but the way that they're behaving has when it comes to Web 3.0. In this market, I mean there's a couple of things. Some of the influencers are investors. And so when you see their name on a project or a new startup, that's an indicator there's a higher level of success. You might want to pay more attention to it or not. Secondly, influencers themselves are launching their own NFT projects. So, Gary Vaynerchuk, a number of celebrities, Paris Hilton is involved. They are also doing theirs as well. Steve Aok, famous DJ launched his as well. So they're going head first and participating in building in this model. And their communities are coming around them and they're building economy. Now the difference is it's not I speak as an influencer to the fans. The difference is that the fans are now part of the community and they literally hold and own some of the economic value, whether it's tokens or the NFTs. So it's a collaborative economy, if you will, where they're all benefiting together. And that's a big difference as well. >> Can you see- >> Lastly, there's one little tactic we're seeing where marketers are air dropping NFTs, branded NFTs influencers wallet. So you can see it in there. So there's new tactics that are forming as well. Back to you. >> That's super exciting. Ren, what's your reaction to that? Because he just hit on a whole new way of how engagement's happening, how people are closed looping their votes, their votes of confidence or votes with their wallet. And the brands which are artists now influencers. I mean, this is a whole game changing instrumentation level. >> I think that what we are seeing right now is super reinvigorating as a marketeer who's been around for a few years, basically. I think that the shift in the way brands are going to communicate and engage with their audiences is profound. It's probably as revolutionary and even more revolutionary than the movement for brands in getting into digital. And you have that sentiment of a gold rush right now with a lot of brands that are trying to understand NFTs and how to actually engage with those communities and those audiences. There are many levels in which brands and influencers are going to engage. There are many influencers that actually advance the message and the mission because the explosion of content on Web 3.0 has been crazy. Part of that is due to the network effect nature of crypto. Because as Jaremiah mentioned, people are incentivized to promote projects. Holders of an NFT are also incentivized to promote it. So you end up with a fly wheel which is pretty unique of people that are hyping their project and that are educating other people about it and commenting on the ecosystem with IP right being given to NFT holders. You're going to see people promote brands instead of the brands actually having to. And so the notion of brands are gaining and delivering elements of the value to their fans is something that's super attractive, extremely interesting. And I think again, we have hardly scratched the surface of all that is possible in that particular space. >> That's interesting. You guys are bringing some great insight here. Jeremiah, the old days the word authentic was a kind of a cliche and brands like tried to be authentic. And they didn't really know what to do they called it organic, right? And now you have the trust concept with authenticity and environment like Web 3.0 where you can actually measure it and monetize it and capture it if you're actually authentic and trustworthy. >> That's right, and be because it's on blockchain, you can see how somebody's behaved with their economic behavior in the past. Of course, big corporations aren't going to have that type of trail on blockchain just yet. But individuals and executives who participate in this market might be. And we'll also see new types of affinity. Do executives do they participate in these NFT communities, do they purchase them or numerous brands like Adidas to acquire, you know, different NFT projects to participate. And of course the big brands are grabbing their domains. Of course you could talk to, Ren about that because it's owning your own name is a part of this trust and being found. >> That's awesome. Great insight guys. Closing comments, takeaways for the audience here. Each of you take a minute to share your thoughts on what you think is happening now where it goes, all right, where's it going to go? Jeremiah, we'll start with you. >> Sure, I think the vision of Web 3.0 where full decentralization happens, where the power is completely shifted to the edges. I don't think it's going to happen. I think we will reach Web 2.5. And I've been through so many tech trends where we said that the power's going to shift completely to of the end, it just doesn't. In part there's two reasons. One is the venture capital are the ones who tend to own the programs in the first place. And secondly, the startups themselves end up becoming the one-percenter. We see Airbnb and Uber are one-percenter now. So that trend happens over and over and over. Now with that said, the world will be in a better place. We will have more transparency. We will see economic power shifted to the people, the participants. And so they will have more control over the internet that they are building. >> Awesome, Ren final comments. >> I'm fully aligned with Jeremiah on the notion of control being returned to users, the notion of ownership and the notion of redistribution of the economic value that is created across all the different chains that we are going to see and all those ecosystems. I believe that we are going to witness two parallel movements of expansion. One that is going to be very lateral. When you think of crypto and Web 3.0 essentially you think of a few 100 tribes. And I think that more projects are going to be a more coalitions of individuals and entities, and those are going to exist around those projects. So you're going to see, you know, an increase in the number of tribes that one might join. And I also think that we're going to progress rapidly from the low 100 millions of crypto and NFT holders into the big hands basically. And that's going to be extreme interesting. I think that the next waves of crypto users, NFT fans are going to look very different from the early adopters that we had witnessed in the very early days. So it's not going to be your traditional model of technology adoption curves. I think the demographics are going to shift and the motivations are going to be different as well, which is going to be a wonderful time to educate and engage with new community members. >> All right, Ren and Jeremiah, thank you both for that great insight great segment breaking down Web 3.0 or Web 2.5 as Jeremiah says but we're in a better place. This is a segment with the influencers. As part of theCUBE and the Unstoppable Domain Showcase. I'm John Furrie, your host. Thanks for watching. (bright upbeat music)

>>Hello, and welcome to the cube unstoppable Doneen showcase. I'm John furrier, host of the cube. We got a great discussion here called the influencers around what's going on in web three and also this new sea change cultural change around this next generation, internet web cloud, all happening, Jeremiah yang industry analyst, and founding part of the cleaner insights. Share my great to see you. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. Uh, registered vice-president of marketing at unstoppable domains in the middle of all the actions. Gentlemen, thanks for coming on on the cube for this showcase. >>My pleasure. So I think it was done >>At Jeremy. I want to start with you. You've seen many ways, but fallen all of your work for over a decade now. Um, you've seen the web 2.0 wave. Now the web three's here. Um, and it's not, I wouldn't say hyped up. It's really just ramping up and you're seeing real practical examples. Uh, you're in the middle of all the action. What is this web three? Can you frame for us that mean you've seen many waves? What is web three mean? What is it? What is it all about? >>Well, John, you and I worked in the web to space and essentially that enabled peer to peer media where people could, could upload their thoughts and ideas and videos, um, without having to rely on centralized media. And unfortunately that distributed and decentralized movement actually became centralized on the platforms or the big social networks and big tech companies. And this has caused an uproar because the people who are creating the content did not have control, could not control their identities and could not really monetize or make decisions. So web three is what is, which is a moniker of a lot of different trends, including crypto blockchain. And sometimes the metaverse is to undo the controlling that has become centralized. And the power is now shifting back into the hands of the participants again, and then this movement, they want to have more control over their identities, their governance, the content that they're creating, how they're actually building it and then how they're monetizing it. So in many ways, it's, it's changing the power and it's a new economic model. So that's web three without really even mentioning the technologies. Is that helpful? >>Yeah, that's great. And ran. We were talking about, on the cute many times and one notable stat, I don't think it's been reported, but it's been more kind of a rumor. I hear that 30% of the, um, Berkeley computer science students are dropping out and going into crypto or blockchain or decentralized startups, which means that this there's a big wave coming in of talent. You seeing startups, you're seeing a lot more formation. You're seeing a lot more, I would say, kind of ramping up of real people, not just, you know, people with a dream it's actual builders out here doing stuff. What's your take on the web three, moving with all this kind of change happening, uh, from people and also the new ideas being refactored. >>I think that the competition for talent is extremely real. And we start looking at the stats. We see that there is an draft of people that are moving into this space. People that are fascinated by technology and are embracing the ethos of web three. And at this stage, I think it's not only engineers and developers, but we have moved into a second phase where we see that a lot of supporting functions know marketing, being one of them, sales, business development, uh, are being built up quite rapidly. It's not without actually reminding me of the mid two thousands. You know, when I started, uh, working with Google at that point in time, the walled gardens rightly absorbing vast, vast cohorts of young graduates and more experienced professionals that are passionate and moving into the web environment. And I think we are seeing a movement right now, which is not entirely dissimilar, except >>Yeah, Jeremiah. You've seen the conversations over the cloud. I call the cloud kind of revolution. You had mobile in 2007, but then you got Amazon web services changed the application space on how people developed in the cloud. And again, that created a lot of value. Now you're seeing the role of data as a huge part of how people are scaling and the decentralized movement. So you've got cloud, which is kind of classic today. State-of-the-art, you know, enterprise and or app developers and you've got now decentralized wave coming. Okay. You're seeing apps being developed on that, that architecture data is central in all of this, right. So how do you view this? As, as someone who's watching the landscape, you know, these walled gardens are hoarding all the data. I mean, LinkedIn Facebook, they're not sharing that data with anyone they're using it for themselves. So as they can control back, comes to the forefront, how do you see this market with the applications and what comes out of that? >>So the thing that we've seen and out of the five things that I had mentioned that are decentralizing, the ones that have been easier to move across have been the ability to monetize and to build. But the data aspect has actually stayed pretty much central. Frankly. What has decentralized is that the contracts to block blockchain ledgers to those of decentralized. But the funny thing is often a big portion of these blockchain networks are on Amazon 63 to 70%, same thing with Stelara. So they're still using the web 2.0 architectures. However, we're also seeing other farms like IPFS, where the data could be to spread it across a wider range of folks. But right now we're still dependent on what we're to point out. So the vision and the problem with 3.0, when it comes to full de-centralization is not here by any means. I'd say we're at a web 2.2, five, >>Pre-web 3m, no actions there. What do you guys, how do you guys see the, um, the dangers? Cause there's a lot of negative press, but also is a lot of positive press. You seeing, you know, a lot of fraud, we've seen a lot of the crypto fraud over the past years. You've seen a lot of now positives, it's almost a self-governance thing and environment, the way the culture is, but what are the dangers? How do you guys educate people? What should people pay attention to? What should people look for to understand, you know, where to position themselves? >>Yes. So we've learned a lot from web one, we to the sharing economy and we are walking into two and three with eyes wide open. So people have rightfully put forth a number of challenges, the sustainability issues with excess using of computing and mining, the, um, the excessive amount of scams that are happening in part due to unknown identities. Um, also the architecture breaks down in certain periods and there's a lack of regulation. Um, this, this is something different though in the last, uh, uh, periods that we've gone through, we didn't really know what was gonna happen. And we walked in big, this is going to be great. The sharing economy, the gig economy, the social media is going to change the world. Hurrah is very different. Now people are a little bit jaded. So I think that's the big change. And so I think we're going to see that, uh, you know, soar it out and suss out just like we've seen with other prints. It's still very much in the early years, >>Right. I got to get your take on this whole, uh, should influencers and should people be anonymous or should they be doxed out there? You saw the board eight guys that did, that were kind of docs a little bit there and that went, went viral. Um, this is an issue, right? Because we, we just had a problem of fake news, uh, fake people, fake information, and now you have a much more secure environment. Immutability is a wonderful thing. It's, it's a feature, not a bug, right. So how is this all coming down? And I know you guys are in the middle of it with, uh, NFTs as, as authentication tickets. What's your take on this because this is a big issue. >>Look, I think first I am extremely optimistic about technology in general. Uh, so I'm super, super bullish about this. And yet, you know, I think that while crypto has so many upsides, it's important to be super conscious and aware of the downsides that come with it too. You know, if you think about every fortune 500 company, there is always training required by all employees on internet safety reporting of potential attacks. And so on in web three, we don't have that kind of standard reporting mechanisms yet, uh, for bad actors in that space. And so when you think about influencers in particular, they do have a responsibility to educate people about, uh, the potential, but also the dangers of the technology of web three, uh, of crypto basically, uh, whether you're talking about hacks online safety, the need for hardware impersonators on discord, uh, security, uh, storing your, your seed phrase. >>So every actor in France or ELs has got a role to play. I think that, uh, in that context, to your point, it's very hard to tell whether influencers should be, uh, anonymous, opposite inverse or footy dogs. The decentralized nature of web three will probably lead us to see a combination of those anonymity levels, um, so to speak, um, and the, uh, movements that we've seen around some influencers, identities becoming public are particularly interesting. I think there's probably a convergence of web two and web three at play here. You know, maybe a on the notion of 2.5 for, I think in way to all business founders and employees are known and they're held accountable for their public comments and actions. Um, if web three enables us to be anonymous, if dials have 14 control, you know, what happens if people make comments and there is no way to know who they are basically, uh, what if the dowel doesn't take appropriate action? I think eventually there will be an element of community self-regulation where influencers will be, uh, acting in the best interest of their reputation. And I believe that the communities will self regulate themselves and we'll create natural boundaries around what can be said or not. >>I think that's a really good point about, um, influencers and reputation because Jeremiah doesn't matter that you're anonymous. I have an icon that could be a NFT or a picture, but if I have an ongoing reputation, I have trust there's trust there. It's not like a, you know, just a bot that was created just to spam someone. It was just, you know what I'm saying? They getting into you getting into this new way. >>You're right. And that, that word you said, trust, that's what really, this is about. But we've seen that public docks people with their full identities have made mistakes. They have pulled the hood over people's faces in and really scammed them out of a lot of money. We've seen that in it that doesn't change anything in human behavior. So I think over time that we will see a new form of a reputation system emerged even for pseudonyms and perhaps for people that are just anonymous that only show their a potential, a wallet address, a series of numbers and letters. Um, that form might take a new form of a web 3.0 FICO score, and you can look at their behaviors. Did they transact? You know, how do they behave? Do they, were they involved in projects that were not healthy? And because all of that information is public on the chain and you can go back in time and see that we might see a new form of, of, of a scoring emerge. >>Of course, who controls that scoring that's a whole nother topic, gong on control and trust. So right now, John, we do see that there's a number of projects, new NFG projects, where the founders will claim and use this as a point of differentiation that they are fully docs. So you know who they are and their names. Secondly, we're seeing a number of, um, uh, products or platforms that require KYC, know your customer so that self-identification often with a government ID or a credit card in order to bridge out your, your coins and turn that into a Fiat. In some cases that's required in some of these marketplaces. So we're seeing a coalition here between, uh, full names and pseudonyms and being anonymous. >>That's awesome. And that, and I think this is the new, again, a whole new form of governance ran. You mentioned some comments about Dow. So I want to get your thoughts again, you know, Jeremiah, we become historians over the years. We're getting old, I'm a little bit older than you, but we've seen the movie war. You know, I remember breaking in the business when the computer standards bodies were built to be more organic, and then they became much more of a kind of an anti-innovation environment where people, the companies would get involved the standards organization just to slow things down and muck things up a little bit. Um, so you know, you look at Dallas like, Hmm, is a Dal, a good thing, or a bad thing that the answer is from people I talked to, is it depends. So I'd love to get your thoughts on getting momentum and becoming defacto with value, a value proposition. Vis-a-vis just adapt for the sake of having a doubt. This has been a conversation that's been kind of in the inside the baseball here, inside the ropes of the industry, but there's trade-offs, can you guys share your thoughts on when to do a Dow and when not to do a Dow and the benefits and trade-offs of that? >>Sure. Maybe I'll start off with a definition and then we'll go to rent. So a Dao, a decentralized autonomous organization, the best way to think about this. It's a digital cooperative and we've heard of worker cooperatives before the differences that they're using blockchain technologies in order to do the three things, identity governance, and rewards and mechanisms. They're relying on web 2.0 tools and technologies like discord and telegram and social networks to communicate. And there's a cooperative they're trying to come up with a common goal, um, Ren, but what's your take, that's the setup? >>So, you know, for me, when I started my journey into crypto and web tree, I had no idea about, you know, what that actually meant and, uh, an easy way for me to think of it and to grasp the nature of it was about the comparison between a dowel and perhaps a more traditional company structure. Um, you know, in a traditional company structure, you have a Yorkie, the company is led by a CEO and other executives, uh, that that was a flat structure. And it's very much led by a group of core contributors. So, uh, to Jeremiah's point, you know, you get that notion of a co-operative, uh, type of structure. The decision-making is very different. You know, we're talking about a hot, super high level of transparency proposals getting submitted and, and voting systems, using applications, as opposed to, you know, management, making decisions behind closed doors. >>I think that speaks to a totally new form of governance. And I think we have hardly, hardly scratched the surface. We have seen recently, uh, very interesting moments in web tree culture. And we have seen how that was suddenly have to make certain decisions and then come to moments of claiming responsibility, uh, in order to, uh, put his behavior, uh, of some of the members. I think that's important. I think it's going to redefine how we're thinking about that, particularly new governance models. And I think he's going to pave the way for a lot of super interesting structure in the near future. >>That's a great point, ran around the transparency for governance. So John, you posed the question, does this make things faster or slower? And right now most dowels are actually pretty slow because they're set up as a flat organization. So as a response to that, they're actually shifting to become representative democracies. Does that sound familiar where you can appoint a delegates and use tokens to vote for them? And they have a decision power, almost like a committee and they can function. And so we've seen actually there are some times our hierarchies, except the person at the top is voted by those that have the tokens. In some cases, the people at the top had the most tokens, but that's a whole nother topic. So we're seeing a wide variety of governance structures, >>You know, rent. I was talking with Matt G the founder of, and I was telling him about the domain name system. And one little trivia note that many people don't know about is that the U S government cause unit it was started by the U S the department of commerce kept that on tight leash because the international telecommunications union wanted to get their hands on it because of ccTLDs and other things. So at that time, because the innovation yet wasn't yet baked out. It was organically growing the governance, the rules of the road, keeping it very stable versus meddling with it. So there's certain technologies that require Jeremiah that let's keep an eye on as a community. Let's not formalize anything like the government did with the domain name system. Let's keep it tight. And then finally released it, I think multiple years after 2004, I think it went over to the, to the ITU, but this is a big point. I mean, if you get too structured, organic innovation, can't go, what you guys' reaction to that. >>So I think to take a stab at it, um, we have as a business, you know, thinking of unstoppable domains, a strong incentive to innovate, uh, and this is what is going to be determining longterm value growth for the organization for, uh, partners, for users, for customers. So, you know, that degree of formalization actually gives us a sense of purpose and a sense of action. And if you compare that to Dows, for instance, you can see how some of the upsides and downsides can pan out either way. It's not to say that there is a perfect solution. I think one of the advantages of the Dow is that you can let more people contribute. You can probably remove bias quite effectively, and you can have a high level of participation and involvement in decisions and all the upside in many ways. Um, you know, as a company, it's a slightly different setup. We have the opportunity to coordinate a very, uh, diverse and part-time workforce in a very, uh, you know, different way. Um, and we do not have to deal with the inefficiencies that might be, you never run to some form of extreme decentralization so that those are balanced from an organizational structure, uh, that comes, uh, either side >>Sharon. I want to get your thoughts on, on, on a trend that you've been involved in. We both been involved in, and you're seeing it now with the kind of social media world, the world of a role of an influencer it's kind of moved from what was open source and influencer was a connect to someone who shared graded content, um, enabled things to much more of a vanity that the photo on Instagram and having a large audience. Um, so is there a new influencer model with web three or is it, is it the, I control the audience I'm making money that way. Is there a shift in the influencer role or, or ideas that you see that should be in place for what is the role of an influencer? Because as web three comes, you're going to see that role become instrumental. We've seen it in open source projects, influences, you know, the people who write code or ship code. So what's your take on that because there's been a conversation with people who have been having the word influencer and redefining and reframing it. >>Sure. The influence model really hasn't changed that much, but the way that they're behaving has when it comes to at three, this market, I mean, there's a couple of things. Some of the influencers are in investors. And so when you see their name on a project or a new startup, that's an indicator, there's a higher level of success. You might want to pay more attention to it or not. Secondly, influencers themselves are launching their own NFC projects. Gary Vaynerchuk, a number of celebrities, Paris Hilton is involved and they are also doing this as well. Steve Aoki, a famous DJ launched his as well. So they're going head first and participating in building in this model. And there are communities are coming around them and they're building economies. Now the difference is it's not, I speak as an influencer to the fans. The difference is that the fans are now part of the community and they hold, they literally holding own some of the economic value, whether it's tokens or the NFTs. So it's a collaborative economy, if you will, where they're all benefiting together. And that's a, that's a big difference as well. Lastly, there's, there's one little tactic we're seeing where marketers are airdropping in FTS, branded NFTs influencers with wallet. So you can see it in there. So there's new tactics that are forming as well. Yes. >>Super exciting. Ren, what's your reaction to that? Because he just hit on a whole new way of, of how engagement's happening, how people are closed, looping their, their votes, their, their votes of confidence or votes with their wallet. Um, and some brands which are artists now, influencers. I mean, this is a whole game-changing instrumentation level. >>I think that's what we are seeing right now is super re invigorating as a marketeer who has been around for a few years, basically. Um, I think that the shift in the web brands are going to communicate and engage with our audiences is profound. It's probably as revolutionary and even more revolutionary than the movement for, uh, brands in getting into digital. And you have that sentiment of a gold rush right now with a lot of brands that are trying to understand NFTs and, and how to actually engage with those communities and those audiences, um, dominate levels in which brands and influencers are going to engage. There are many influencers that actually advanced the message and the mission because the explosion of content on web tree has been crazy. Part of that is due to the network effect nature of crypto, because as Jeremiah mentioned, people are incentivized to promote projects, holders of an NFTA, also incentivized to promote it. So you end up with a flywheel, which is pretty unique of people that are hyping the project, and that are educating other people about it and commenting on the ecosystem, uh, with IP rights, being given to NFT holders, you're going to see people pull a brand since then of the brands actually having to. And so the notion of brands, again, judging and delivering, you know, elements of the value to their fans is something that's super attractive, extremely interesting. And I think, again, we've hardly scratched the surface of all that is possible in that. >>It's interesting. You guys are bringing some great insight here, Jeremiah, the old days, the word authentic was a kind of a cliche and brands like tried to be authentic and they didn't really know what to do. They called it organic, right? And now you have the trust concept with aura authenticity and environment like web three, where you can actually measure it and monetize it and capture it if you're actually authentic and trustworthy. >>That's right. And because it's on blockchain, you can see how somebody is behave with their economic behavior. In the past, of course, big corporations. Aren't going to have that type of trail on blockchain just yet. But the individuals and executives who participate in this market might be, and we'll also see a new types of affinity. Do you executives, do they participate in these NFT communities? Do they purchase them? We're seeing numerous brands like Adidas to acquire, uh, you know, different MTV projects to participate. And of course the big brands are grabbing their domains. Of course, you can talk to rant about that because it's owning your own name as a part of this trust and being >>That's awesome. Great insight guys. Closing comments, takeaways for the audience here. Each of you take a minute to give, share your thoughts on what you think is happening now, where it goes. All right, where's it going to go, Jeremy, we'll start with you. >>Sure. Um, I think the vision of web three, where full decentralization happens, where the power is completely shifted to the edges. I don't think it's going to happen. I think we will reach web 2.5 and I've been through so many tech trends where we said that the power is going to shift completely to the end. It just doesn't, there's two reasons. One is the venture capital are the ones who tend to own the pro programs in the first place. And secondly, the, the startups themselves end up becoming the one percenters. We see Airbnb and Uber are one-percenters now. So that trend happens over and over and over. Now with that said, the world will be in a better place. We will have more transparency. We will see economic power shifted to the people, the participants. And so they will have more control over the internet that they are building. >>Right. And final, final comments, >>Um, fully aligned with Jeremiah on the notions of control, being returned to users, the notion of ownership and the notion of redistribution of the economic value that is created across all the different chains, uh, uh, that we are going to see. And, and all those ecosystems. I believe that we are going to witness to palliate movements of expansion, one that is going to be very lateral. When you think of crypto and web three, essentially you think of a few hundred tribes. Uh, and I think that more projects are going to appear more, uh, coalitions of individuals and entities, and those are going to exist around those projects. So you're going to see an increase in the number of tribes that one might join. And I also think that we're going to progress rapidly from the low hundred millions of people and an FTE holders into the billions perfectly. Uh, and that's going to be extremely interesting. I think that the next wave of crypto users and Ft fans are going to look very different from the early adopters that we had witnessed in the very early days. So it's not going to be your traditional model of technology, adoption curves. I think the demographics going to shift and the motivations are going to be different as well, which is going to be a wonderful time to educate and engage with new community members. >>All right, Ron, Jeremy, thank you both for that great insight, great segment, uh, breaking down web three or web 2.5 as Jeremiah says, but we're in a better place. This is a segment with the influencers as part of the cubes and the unstoppable domain showcase. Um, John for your hosts. Thanks for watching.

>> Well, thank you, Gary. Well, you know, reasonable people could debate when the so-called big data era started. But for me it was in the fall of 2010 when I was sleepwalking through this conference in Dallas. And the conference was focused on data being a liability. And the whole conversation was about, how do you mitigate the risks of things like work in process and smoking-gun emails. I got a call from my business partner, John Fard, he said to me, "get to New York and come and see the future of data. We're doing theCUBE at Hadoop World tomorrow." I subsequently I canceled about a dozen meetings that I had scheduled for the week. And with only one exception, every one of the folks I was scheduled to meet said, "what's a Hadoop?" Well, I flew through an ice storm across country. I got to the New York Hilton around 3:00 AM, and I met John in the Dark Bar. If any of you remember that little facility. And I caught a little shut eye. And then the next day I met some of the most interesting people in tech during that time. They were thinking a lot differently than we were used to. They looked at data through a prism of value. And they were finding new ways to do things like deal with fraud, they were building out social networks, they were finding novel marketing vectors and identifying new investment strategies. The other thing they were doing is, they were taking these little tiny bits of code and bring it to really large sets of data. And they were doing things that I hadn't really heard of like no schema-on-write. And they were transforming their organizations by looking at data not as a liability, but as a monetization opportunity. And that opened my eyes and theCUBE, like a lot of others bet its business on data. Now over the past decade, customers have built up infrastructure and have been accommodating a lot of different use cases. Things like offloading ETL, data protection, mining data, analyzing data, visualizing. And as you know, you no doubt realize this was at a time when the cloud was, you know, really kind of nascent. And it was really about startups and experimentation. But today, we've evolved from the wild west of 2010, and many of these customers they're leveraging the cloud for of course, ease of use and flexibility it brings, but also they're finding out it brings complexity and risk. I want to tell you a quick story. Recently it was interviewing a CIO in theCUBE and he said to me, "if you just shove all your workloads into the cloud, you might get some benefit, but you're also going to miss the forest to the trees. You have to change your operating model and expand your mind as to what is cloud and create a cloud light experience that spans your on premises, workloads, multiple public clouds, and even the edge. And you have to re-imagine your business and the possibilities that this new architecture this new platform can bring." So we're going to talk about some of this today in a little bit more detail and specifically how we can better navigate the data storm. And what's the role of hybrid cloud. I'm really excited to have two great guests. Manish Dasaur is the managing director in the North America lead for analytics and artificial intelligence at Accenture. Anupam Singh is the chief customer officer for Cloudera. Gentlemen, welcome to theCUBE, great to see you. >> Hi Dave good to see you again. >> All right, guys, Anupam and Manish, you heard my little monologue upfront Anupam we'll start with you. What would you? Anything you'd add, amend, emphasize? You know, share a quick story. >> Yeah, Dave thank you for that introduction. It takes me back to the days when I was an article employee and went to this 14 people meet up. Just a couple of pizza talking about this thing called Hadoop. And I'm just amazed to see that today we are now at 2000 customers, who are using petabytes of data to make extremely critical decisions. Reminds me of the fact that this week, a lot of our customers are busy thinking about elections and what effect it would have on their data pipeline. Will it be more data? Will it be more stressful? So, totally agree with you. And also agree that cloud, is almost still in early days in times of the culture of IT on how to use the cloud. And I'm sure we'll talk about that today in greater detail. >> Yeah most definitely Manish I wonder if we could get your perspective on this. I mean, back when Anupam was at Oracle you'd shove a bunch of, you know, data, maybe you could attach a big honking disc drive, you'd buy some Oracle licenses, you know, it was a Unix box. Everything went into this, you know, this God box and then things changed quite dramatically, which was awesome, but also complex. And you guys have been there from the beginning. What's your perspective on all this? >> Yeah, it's been fascinating just to watch the market and the technology evolve. And I think the urgency to innovate is really just getting started. We're seeing companies drive growth from 20% in cloud today, to 80% cloud in the next few years. And I think the emergence of capabilities like hybrid cloud, we really get upfront a lot of flexibility for companies who need the ability to keep some data in a private setting, but be able to share the rest of the data in a public setting. I think we're just starting to scratch the surface of it. >> So let's talk a little bit about what is a hybrid cloud Anupam I wonder if you could take this one let's start with you and then Manish we come back to you and to get the customer perspective as well. I mean, it is a lot of things to a lot of people, but what is it? Why do we need it? And you know, what's the value? >> Yeah, I could speak poetic about Kubernetes and containers et cetera. But given that, you know, we talk to customers a lot, all three of us from the customer's perspective, hybrid cloud is a lot about collaboration and ease of procurement. A lot of our customers, whether they're in healthcare, banking or telco, are being asked to make the data available to regulatory authority, to subsidiaries outside of their geography. When you need that data to be available in other settings, taking a from on-prem and making it available in public cloud, enables extreme collaboration, extreme shared data experience if you will, inside the company. So we think about hybrid like that. >> Manish anything you'd add? How are your customers thinking about it? >> I mean, in a very simple way, it's a structure that where we are allowing mixed computing storage and service environments that's made of on-prem structures, private cloud structures, and public cloud structures. We're often calling it multicloud or mixcloud. And I think the really big advantage is, this model of cloud computing is enabling our clients to gain the benefits of public cloud setting, while maintaining your own private cloud for sensitive and mission critical and highly regulated computing services. That's also allowing our clients and organizations to leverage the pay-as-you-go model, which is really quite impressive and attractive to them because then they can scale their investments accordingly. Clients can combine one or more public cloud providers together in a private cloud, multicloud platform. The cloud can operate independently of each other, communicate over an encrypted connection. This dynamic solution offers a lot of flexibility and scalability which I think is really important to our clients. >> So Manish I wonder if we would stay there. How do they, how do your customers decide? How do you help them decide, you know, what the right mix is? What the equilibrium is? How much should it be in on-prem? How much should be in public or across clouds? Or, you know, eventually, well the edge will I guess decide for us. But, how do you go through, what are the decision points there? >> Yeah, I think that's a great question Dave. I would say there's several factors to consider when developing a cloud strategy that's the right strategy for you. Some of the factors that come to my mind when contemplating it, one would be security. Are there data sets that are highly sensitive that you don't want leaving the premise, versus data sets that need to be in a more shareable solution. Another factor I'd consider is speed and flexibility. Is there a need to stand up and stand down capabilities based on the seasonality of the business or some short-term demands? Is there a need to add and remove scale from the infrastructure and that quick pivot and that quick reaction is another factor they should consider. The third one I'd probably put out there is cost. Large data sets and large computing capacities often much more scalable and cost effective than a cloud infrastructure so there's lots of advantages to think through there. And maybe lastly I'd share is the native services. A lot of the cloud providers enable a set of native services for ingestion, for processing, of modeling, for machine learning, that organizations can really take advantage of. I would say if you're contemplating your strategy right now, my coaching would be, get help. It's a team sport. So definitely leverage your partners and think through the pros and cons of the strategy. Establish a primary hyperscaler, I think that's going to be super key and maximize your value through optimizing the workload, the data placement and really scaling the running operations. And lastly, maybe Dave move quickly right? Each day that you wait, you're incurring technical debt in your legacy environment, that's going to increase the cost and barrier to entry when moving to the new cloud hybrid driver. >> Thank you for that. Anupam I wonder if we could talk a little bit about the business impact. I mean, in the early days of big data, yes, it was a heavy lift, but it was really transformative. When you go to hybrid cloud, is it really about governance and compliance and security and getting the right mix in terms of latency? Are there other, you know, business impacts that are potentially as transformative as we saw in the early days? What are your thoughts on that? >> Absolutely. It's the other business impacts that are interesting. And you know, Dave, let's say you're in the line of business and I come to you and say, oh, there's cost, there's all these other security governance benefits. It doesn't ring the bell for you. But if I say, Dave used to wait 32 weeks, 32 weeks to procure hardware and install software, but I can give you the same thing in 30 minutes. It's literally that transformative, right? Even on-prem, if I use cloud native technology, I can give something today within days versus weeks. So we have banks, we have a bank in Ohio that would take 32 weeks to rack up a 42 node server. Yes, it's very powerful, you have 42 nodes on it, 42 things stacked on it, but still it's taking too much time. So when you get cloud native technologies in your data center, you start behaving like the cloud and you're responsive to the business. The responsiveness is very important. >> That's a great point. I mean, in fact, you know, there's always this debate about is the cloud public cloud probably cost more expensive? Is it more expensive to rent than it is to own? And you get debates back and forth based on your perspective. But I think at the end of the day, what, Anupam you just talked about, it may oftentimes could dwarf, you know, any cost factors, if you can actually, you know, move that fast. Now cost is always a consideration. But I want to talk about the migration path if we can Manish. Where do, how should customers think about migrating to the cloud migration's a, an evil word. How should they think about migrating to the cloud? What's the strategy there? Where should they start? >> No I think you should start with kind of a use case in mind. I think you should start with a particular data set in mind as well. I think starting with what you're really seeking to achieve from a business value perspective is always the right lens in my mind. This is the decade of time technology and cloud to the fitness value, right? So if you start with, I'm seeking to make a dramatic upsell or dramatic change to my top line or bottom line, start with the use case in mind and migrate the data sets and elements that are relevant to that use case, relevant to that value, relevant to that unlock that you're trying to create, that I think is the way to prioritize it. Most of our clients are going to have tons and tons of data in their legacy environment. I don't think the right way to start is to start with a strategy that's going to be focused on migrating all of that. I think the strategy is start with the prioritized items that are tied to the specific value or the use case you're seeking to drive and focus your transformation and your migration on that. >> So guys I've been around a long time in this business and been an observer for awhile. And back in the mainframe days, we used to have a joke called CTAM. When we talk about moving data, it was called the Chevy truck access method. So I want to ask you Anupam, how do you move the data? Do you, it's like an Einstein saying, right? Move as much data as you need to, but no more. So what's going on in that front? what's happening with data movement, and, you know, do you have to make changes to the applications when you move data to the cloud? >> So there's two design patterns, but I love your service story because you know, when you have a 30 petabyte system and you tell the customer, hey, just make a copy of the data and everything will be fine. That will take you one and a half years to make the copies aligned with each other. Instead, what we are seeing is the biggest magic is workload analysis. You analyze the workload, you analyze the behavior of the users, and say so let's say Dave runs dashboards that are very complicated and Manish waits for compute when Dave is running his dashboard. If you're able to gather that information, you can actually take some of the noise out of the system. So you take selected sets of hot data, and you move it to public cloud, process it in public cloud maybe even bring it back. Sounds like science fiction, but the good news is you don't need a Chevy to take all that data into public cloud. It's a small amount of data. That's one reason the other pattern that we have seen is, let's say Manish needs something as a data scientist. And he needs some really specific type of GPUs that are only available in the cloud. So you pull the data sets out that Manish needs so that he can get the new silicone, the new library in the cloud. Those are the two patterns that if you have a new type of compute requirement, you go to public cloud, or if you have a really noisy tenant, you take the hot data out into public cloud and process it there. Does that make sense? >> Yeah it does and it sort of sets up this notion I was sort of describing upfront that the cloud is not just, you know, the public cloud, it's the spans on-prem and multicloud and even the edge. And it seems to me that you've got a metadata opportunity I'll call it and a challenge as well. I mean, there's got to be a lot of R and D going on right now. You hear people talking about cloud native and I wonder on Anupam if you could stay on that, I mean, what's your sense as to how, what the journey is going to look like? I mean, we're not going to get there overnight. People have laid out a vision of this sort of expanding cloud and I'm saying it's a metadata opportunity, but I, you know, how do you, the system has to know what workload to put where based on a lot of those factors that you guys were talking about. The governance, the laws of the land, the latency issues, the cost issues is, you know, how is the industry Anupam sort of approaching this problem and solving this problem? >> I think the biggest thing is to reflect all your security governance across every cloud, as well as on-prem. So let's say, you know, a particular user named Manish cannot access financial data, revenue data. It's important that that data as it goes around the cloud, if it gets copied from on-prem to the cloud, it should carry that quality with it. A big danger is you copy it into some optic storage, and you're absolutely right Dave metadata is the goal there. If you copy the data into an object storage and you lose all metadata, you lose all security, you lose all authorization. So we have invested heavily in something called shared data experience. Which reflects policies from on-prem all the way to the cloud and back. We've seen customers needing to invest in that, but some customers went all hog on the cloud and they realize that putting data just in these buckets of optic storage, you lose all the metadata, and then you're exposing yourself to some breach and security issues. >> Manish I wonder if we could talk about, thank you for that Anupam. Manish I wonder if we could talk about, you know, I've imagined a project, okay? Wherever I am in my journey, maybe you can pick your sort of sweet spot in the market today. You know, what's the fat middle if you will. What does a project look like when I'm migrating to the cloud? I mean, what are some of the, who are the stakeholders? What are some of the outer scope maybe expectations that I better be thinking about? What kind of timeframe? How should I tackle this and so it's not like a, you know, a big, giant expensive? Can I take it in pieces? What's the state-of-the-art of a project look like today? >> Yeah, lots of thoughts come to mind, Dave, when you ask that question. So there's lots to pack. As far as who the buyer is or what the project is for, this is out of migration is directly relevant to every officer in the C-suite in my mind. It's very relevant for the CIO and CTO obviously it's going to be their infrastructure of the future, and certainly something that they're going to need to migrate to. It's very important for the CFO as well. These things require a significant migration and a significant investment from enterprises, different kind of position there. And it's very relevant all the way up to the CEO. Because if you get it right, the truly the power it unlocks is illuminates parts of your business that allow you to capture more value, capture a higher share of wallet, allows you to pivot. A lot of our clients right now are making a pivot from going from a products organization to an as a service organization and really using the capabilities of the cloud to make that pivot happen. So it's really relevant kind of across the C-suite. As far as what a typical program looks like, I always coach my clients just like I said, to start with the value case in mind. So typically, what I'll ask them to do is kind of prioritize their top three or five use cases that they really want to drive, and then we'll land a project team that will help them make that migration and really scale out data and analytics on the cloud that are focused on those use cases. >> Great, thank you for that. I'm glad you mentioned the shift in the mindset from product to as a service. We're seeing that across the board now, even infrastructure players are jumping on the bandwagon and borrowing some sort of best practices from the SaaS vendors. And I wanted to ask you guys about, I mean, as you move to the cloud, one of the other things that strikes me is that you actually get greater scale, but there's a broader ecosystem as well. So we're kind of moving from a product centric world and with SaaS we've got this sort of platform centric, and now it seems like ecosystems are really where the innovation is coming from. I wonder if you guys could comment on that, maybe Anupam you could start. >> Yeah, many of our customers as I said right? Are all about sharing data with more and more lines of businesses. So whenever we talk to our CXO partners, our CRO partners, they are being asked to open up the big data system to more tenants. The fear is, of course, if you add more tenants to a system, it could get, you know, the operational actually might get violated. So I think that's a very important part as more and more collaboration across the company, more and more collaboration across industries. So we have customers who create sandboxes. These are healthcare customers who create sandbox environments for other pharma companies to come in and look at clinical trial data. In that case, you need to be able to create these fenced environments that can be run in public cloud, but with the same security that you expect up. >> Yeah thank you. So Manish this is your wheelhouse as Accenture. You guys are one of the top, you know, two or three or four organizations in the world in terms of dealing with complexity, you've got deep industry expertise, and it seems like some of these ecosystems as Anupam was just sort of describing it in a form are around industries, whether it's healthcare, government, financial services and the like. Maybe your thoughts on the power of ecosystems versus the, you know, the power of many versus the resources of one. >> Yeah, listen, I always talk about this is a team sport right? And it's not about doing it alone. It's about developing as ecosystem partners and really leveraging the power of that collective group. And I've been for as my clients to start thinking about, you know, the key thing you want to think about is how you migrate to becoming a data driven enterprise. And in order for you to get there, you're going to need ecosystem partners to go along the journey with you, to help you drive that innovation. You're going to need to adopt a pervasive mindset to data and democratization of that data everywhere in your enterprise. And you're going to need to refocus your decision-making based on that data, right? So I think partner ecosystem partnerships are here to stay. I think what we're going to see Dave is, you know, at the beginning of the maturity cycle, you're going to see the ecosystem expand with lots of different players and technologies kind of focused on industry. And then I think you'll get to a point where it starts to mature and starts to consolidate as ecosystem partners start to join together through acquisitions and mergers and things like that. So I think ecosystem is just starting to change. I think the key message that I would give to our clients is take advantage of that. There's too much complexity for any one person to kind of navigate through on your own. It's a team sport, so take advantage of all the partnerships you can create. >> Well, Manish one of the things you just said that it kind of reminds me, you said data data-driven, you know, organizations and, you know, if you look at the pre-COVID narrative around digital transformation, certainly there was a lot of digital transformation going on, but there was a lot of complacency too. I talked to a lot of folks, companies that say, "you know, we're doing pretty well, our banks kicking butt right now, we're making a ton of money." Or you know, all that stuff that's kind of not on my watch. I'll be retired before then. And then it was the old, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." And then COVID breaks everything. And now if you're not digital, you're out of business. And so Anupam I'll start with you. I mean, to build a data-driven culture, what does that mean? That means putting data at the center of your organization, as opposed to around in stove pipes. And this, again, we talked about this, it sort of started in there before even the early parts of last decade. And so it seems that there's cultural aspects there's obviously technology, but there's skillsets, there's processes, you've got a data lifecycle and a data, what I sometimes call a data pipeline, meaning an end to end cycle. And organizations are having to rethink really putting data at the core. What are you seeing? And specifically as it relates to this notion of data-driven organization and data culture, what's working? >> Yeah three favorite stories, and you're a 100% right. Digital transformation has been hyperaccelerated with COVID right? So our telco customers for example, you know, Manish had some technical problems with bandwidth just 10 minutes ago. Most likely is going to call his ISP. The ISP will most likely load up a dashboard in his zip code and the reason it gives me stress, this entire story is because most likely it's starting on a big data system that has to collect data every 15 minutes, and make it available. Because you'll have a very angry Manish on the other end, if you can't explain when is the internet coming back, right? So, as you said this is accelerated. Our telco providers, our telco customers ability to ingest data, because they have to get it in 15 minute increments, not in 24 hour increments. So that's one. On the banking sector what we have seen is uncertainty has created more needs for data. So next week is going to be very uncertain all of us know elections are upcoming. We have customers who are preparing for that additional variable capacity, elastic capacity, so that if investment bankers start running hundreds and thousands of reports, they better be ready. So it's changing the culture at a very fundamental level, right? And my last story is healthcare. You're running clinical trials, but everybody wants access to the data. Your partners, the government wants access to the data, manufacturers wants access to the data. So again, you have to actualize digital transformation on how do you share very sensitive, private healthcare data without violating any policy. But you have to do it quick. That's what COVID has started. >> Thank you for that. So I want to come back to hybrid cloud. I know a lot of people in the audience are, want to learn more about that. And they have a mandate really to go to cloud generally but hybrid specifically. So Manish I wonder if you could share with us, maybe there's some challenges, I mean what's the dark side of hybrid. What should people be thinking about that they, you know, they don't want to venture into, you know, this way, they want to go that way. What are some of the challenges that you're seeing with customers? And how are they mitigating them? >> Yeah, Dave it's a great question. I think there's a few items that I would coach my clients to prioritize and really get right when thinking about making the migration happen. First of all, I would say integration. Between your private and public components that can be complex, it can be challenging. It can be complicated based on the data itself, the organizational structure of the company, the number of touches and authors we have on that data and several other factors. So I think it's really important to get this integration right, with some clear accountabilities build automation where you can and really establish some consistent governance that allows you to maintain these assets. The second one I would say is security. When it comes to hybrid cloud management, any transfers of data you need to handle the strict policies and procedures, especially in industries where that's really relevant like healthcare and financial services. So using these policies in a way that's consistent across your environment and really well understood with anyone who's touching your environment is really important. And the third I would say is cost management. All the executives that I talk about have to have a cost management angle to it. Cloud migration provides ample opportunities for cost reduction. However many migration projects can go over budget when all the costs aren't factored in, right? So your cloud vendors. You've got to be mindful of kind of the charges on accessing on premise applications and scaling costs that maybe need to be budgeted for and where if possible anticipated and really plan for. >> Excellent. So Anupam I wonder if we could go a little deeper on, we talked a little bit about this, but kind of what you put where, which workloads. What are you seeing? I mean, how are people making the choice? Are they saying, okay, this cloud is good for analytics. This cloud is good. Well, I'm a customer of their software so I'm going to use this cloud or this one is the best infrastructure and they got, you know, the most features. How are people deciding really what to put where? Or is it, "hey, I don't want to be locked in to one cloud. I want to spread my risk around. What are you seeing specifically? >> I think the biggest thing is just to echo what Manish said. Is business comes in and as a complaint. So most projects that we see on digital transformation and on public cloud adoption is because businesses complaining about something. It's not architectural goodness, it is not for just innovation for innovation's sake. So, the biggest thing that we see is what we call noisy neighbors. A lot of dashboards, you know, because business has become so intense, click, click, click, click, you're actually putting a lot of load on the system. So isolating noisy neighbors into a cloud is one of the biggest patterns that you've seen. It takes the noisiest tenant on your cluster, noisiest workload and you take them to public cloud. The other one is data scientists. They want new libraries, they want to work with GPU's. And to your point Dave, that's where you select a particular cloud. Let's say there's a particular type silicone that is available only in that cloud. That GPU is available only in that cloud or that particular artificial intelligence library is available only in a particular cloud. That's when customers say, Hey miss, they decided, why don't you go to this cloud while the main workload might still be running on them, right? That's the two patterns that we are seeing. >> Right thank you. And I wonder if we can end on a little bit of looking to the future. Maybe how this is all going to evolve over the next several years. I mean, I like to look at it at a spectrum at a journey. It's not going to all come at once. I do think the edge is part of that. But it feels like today we've got, you know, multi clouds are loosely coupled and hybrid is also loosely coupled, but we're moving very quickly to a much more integrated, I think we Manish you talked about integration. Where you've got state, you've got the control plane, you've got the data plane. And all this stuff is really becoming native to the respective clouds and even bring that on-prem and you've got now hybrid applications and much much tighter integration and build this, build out of this massively distributed, maybe going from it's a hyper-converged to hyper-distributed again including the edge. So I wonder Manish we could start with you. How are your customers thinking about the future? How are they thinking about, you know, making sure that they're not going down a path where that's going to, they're going to incur a lot of technical debt? I know there's sort of infrastructure is code and containers and that seems it seems necessary, but insufficient there's a lot of talk about, well maybe we start with a functions based or a serverless architecture. There's some bets that have to be made to make sure that you can future proof yourself. What are you recommending there Manish? >> Yeah, I, listen I think we're just getting started in this journey. And like I said, it's really exciting time and I think there's a lot of evolution in front of us that we're going to see. I, you know, I think for example, I think we're going to see hybrid technologies evolve from public and private thinking to dedicated and shared thinking instead. And I think we're going to see advances in capabilities around automation and computer federation and evolution of consumption models of that data. But I think we've got a lot of kind of technology modifications and enhancements ahead of us. As far as companies and how they future proof themselves. I would offer the following. First of all, I think it's a time for action, right? So I would encourage all my class to take action now. Every day spent in legacy adds to the technical debt that you're going to incur, and it increases your barrier to entry. The second one would be move with agility and flexibility. That's the underlying value of hybrid cloud structures. So organizations really need to learn how to operate in that way and take advantage of that agility and that flexibility. We've talked about creating partnerships in ecosystems I think that's going to be really important. Gathering partners and thought leaders to help you navigate through that complexity. And lastly I would say monetizing your data. Making a value led approach to how you viewed your data assets and force a function where each decision in your enterprise is tied to the value that it creates and is backed by the data that supports it. And I think if you get those things right, the technology and the infrastructure will serve. >> Excellent and Anupam why don't you bring us home, I mean you've got a unique combination of technical acumen and business knowledge. How do you see this evolving over the next three to five years? >> Oh, thank you Dave. So technically speaking, adoption of containers is going to steadily make sure that you're not aware even of what cloud you're running on that day. So the multicloud will not be a requirement even, it will just be obviated when you have that abstraction there. Contrarily, it's going to be a bigger challenge. I would echo what Manish said start today, especially on the cultural side. It is great that you don't have to procure hardware anymore, but that also means that many of us don't know what our cloud bill is going to be next month. It is a very scary feeling for your CIO and your CFO that you don't know how much you're going to to spend next month forget next year, right? So you have to be agile in your financial planning as much you have to be agile in your technical planning. And finally I think you hit on it. Ecosystems are what makes data great. And so you have to start from day one that if I am going on this cloud solution, is the data shareable? Am I able to create an ecosystem around that data? Because without that, it's just somebody running a report may or may not have value to the business. >> That's awesome, guys. Thanks so much for a great conversation. We're at a time and I want to wish everybody a terrific event. Let me now hand it back to Vanita. She's going to take you through the rest of the day. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE, thanks. (smooth calm music)

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now, here's your host Stu Miniman. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and welcome to a Cube Conversation here in our Boston area studio. Happy to welcome to our program a first time guest, Larry Biagini, who is the Chief Technology Evangelist at Zscaler. Also had a long career at GE. Your last position there you were the Chief Technology Officer. Larry thanks so much for joining me, pleasure to me you. >> Thanks for having us. All right so you know before we get into some of your background at GE tell us a little bit... Zscaler, we've got some familiarity with the team. We've had some of the executives, many of the customers on our program. Tell us what part you do at Zscaler. >> So when I left GE after about 26 years, I was a Zscaler customer. Very early Zscaler customer at GE. And one of the things that intrigued me about GE and one of the things about Zscaler I learned with working with them is that they're vision for security and my vision for security and agility of organizations going forward were an easy match. That made a transition very simple, I was gone from GE for four weeks, that was my retirement before I got recruited into Zscaler and the reason it was a good match is I had big company experience. I had a very good network of people that are operating in large companies and Zscaler needed those connections. But we also had a product that was mature but we had a message that we had to get across to these folks. So it was a message that was real to me, a message that mattered to what Zscaler need to put out there, and that's why I'm the Chief Technology Evangelist. I spend my time with customers, with prospects. Just understanding what they're going through. Using my experience at GE and my experience with other customers to help them through that, and that's the role that I play. >> Yeah I know my time when I worked on the vendor side working with customers being in briefing centers working with them were some of the most gratifying for me. Cause it was you know helping them through what they were working on. Bring a C.E.O. in -- you no longer work for GE but give us a little bit of the background as to you know what gave you some of the skills and some of the scars to help customers that are now going through these journeys. >> The story really starts when I was asked to become the Chief Risk Officer for IT for GE. I was the CIO of the largest business at the time. But GE was going through a transformation or wanted to go through a transformation. They recognized that digital was an opportunity for them and could also be a threat, but at the same time security was not enabling the organization it was sort of disabling it. It was in the way. Now I had no security background at the time it was mostly in architecture and applications. I'd run the data centers but I was very familiar with security and what it was supposed to do and what it actually was doing. So one of the first things we looked at is why we were doing what we were doing. And the reality is ten years ago it made sense doing what we were doing which was protecting the network because everything was in the network. The users were in the network, the data was in the network, The applications were in the network and if you protect the network by definition or by default you're protecting everything else. But when we started seeing behaviors that's not the way people were acting. There was more and more traffic going directly to internet. Whether it be for personal use or for business use more and more business use. The mobile workforce and I just don't mean mobile devices the workforce itself was mobile, where we were out in the field. That's where you make money, it's when you're with customers, when you're selling. So this notion of protecting the network allows you to protect apps, users, and data actually is a fallacy. But we continue to do it because that was the problem we had to solve ten, fifteen years ago. The problem changed with the introduction of cloud, with the introduction of mobility. With end users getting much much smarter about how they can use technology without actually needing IT. You know we used to say that everybody's their own CIO at this point. They have their own devices they have their own networks, they have their own apps. Our job is still to secure them but not get in the way of them. >> Yeah we know back in the old days it was physical things that I could wrap my arms around and if I could lock a door, or you know build the moat as we talked about in the industry, that was great but the surface area just keeps increasing. Cloud pushed it that way. Edge is pushing it you know order of magnitudes even more. So it's interesting I think you know when we talked about cloud adoption, security was originally "Oh it's a reason why I might not go to the cloud," and then it was like "Wait, its a new opportunity for it." To be honest digital transformations I haven't heard as much discussion about thee challenges and opportunity's of security there so maybe you can help expand on that a bit. >> So I think what Zscaler does and the notion that I had that made it an easy fit was I always believed or not always believed after I took that role I believed that there had to be something between the user and whereever they wanted to go and we had to put as many services as we could in that. Now we originally thought we could build that ourselves. We couldn't. We didn't have the footprint, we didn't have the scale, even though were a large company at the time. But I always thought that tying a user and a application to a location was a big mistake. And so when I think about digital transformation what I'm really thinking about is safely attaining speed in order to do business in today's world. So you talked about devices. I'd argue that even five years ago most larger organizations could not tell the devices on their network yet we were trying to protect that. Right? They knew the ones they knew about but they didn't know the Raspberry Pi that was plugged in by an engineering guy. Or they didn't know that somebody just put a new machine on the factory floor and it happened to have an IP address. So we were actually kidding ourselves into what we were doing. So I think the cloud actually opened up the eyes of not only the business but opened up the eyes of the IT and security folks that the way -- you can't control the network anymore because you don't own the network -- I'd argue that you haven't for a long time -- and because of that things had to change. I also think that it became -- and I've seen this in my four years with Zscaler -- four years ago security was sort of black and white. Now that the dialogue has changed and more about risk what's really important to my company. The fact of matter is have to admit to my board that I can't protect everything. But I need to protect certain things but you have to tell me what those things are. I can mitigate that risk. I can't do everything to everybody and so I think that's the discussion people are having now. And when in five years ago people would say "Oh Amazon, Azure, GCP, I want to see their security practices, this, that, and the other thing." Now they can't stop things from moving there. They're less concerned about the security practices because they get an attestation of those and things like that. They're more concerned about how their organizations are migrating stuff. Are they migrating the right data? Do they have the right controls around it? So I think the mindset of the CISOs has changed a bit I think the roles of CIO, the CTO, and the CISO have changed. Where the CISO is more risk-averse, The CTO is actually learning how to tie things together rather than build them. And the CIO is focused on data and business opportunities. >> Yeah, Larry maybe you can bring us inside one of the customers or you know a sample of what you're hearing from customers because so many of the things you said really resonate absolutely five years ago was like Cloud, let me get your SLA and let me read trough all of it, and hey can you adjust this for me? Amazon says no. Okay wait I need to adjust to this, but the mantra I hear from my friends in security is security is everyone's responsibility and it is a practice and therefore it needs to be embedded in there not some product or thing that gets bolted on at the end. So how are they coming to that? Is it the CISO? Organizationally, where do these conversations start and fit? >> So every organization is different, so what I'll give you is a sort of combined view of a large organization. Probably two or three large organizations. The first step is adopting the internet as your corporate network. Once you come to that realization that the internet is your corporate network and will continue to be so, then the things that you do change dramatically. And the opportunities that you have change dramatically: from a cost perspective, from a service-delivery perspective, and from an end-user satisfaction perspective. >> So let me ask that for a second, because I have you know, some peers and friends that work at big companies and it feels like there's the corporate network and then I've got my device on the other thing that I use, the public network. Is this embracing the just, "it's there," or do I still have those two separate networks? >> I think where it's going and where the more progressive companies that I deal with are, is that rather than having a corporate network supporting everything, the corporate network will actually shrink. The...only supporting what it needs to support, and will become a destination just like an AWS, or an Azure or GCP. So if you have a corporate network today that's big and wide and flat, it has users, apps, data in it, and your data centers, my view and dealing with, again, some more of the progressive companies is that corporate network will shift to just a data-center network. And it will have no users on it but users will be able to get to it. So you turn yourself into an AWS. Some people call that Hybrid Computing. I call it Hybrid Networking. But the reality is most organizations, large organizations are going to have a hard time getting rid of their data centers in the near future. So they're going to have to be part of this game. And rather than try to extend the current model to wrap around AWS and Azure and the cloud providers, why not change your model what you do control to actually act like that. So my world has the internet as a corporate network, the corporate network as a subset of the internet, no users on the corporate network, all users untrusted on the internet. That's where I think this whole thing goes and that's where the customers that I talk to are headed. >> Okay one of the biggest challenges when you talk about this transformation is usually some of the organizational dynamics there. Maybe walk us through...you talked about we understand everyone's different you know we've seen the CISO greatly elevated to where their role fits into it but you know corporate structure and the average sysadmin and the like, what are they getting rid of, what are they learning, or is it new people coming in? >> The cultural -- I don't want to say "push back" -- but the cultural challenges are real. You know if you've been in this industry... ...I've been in this industry for forty years. You gain certain expertise and you like to get promoted on that expertise, get recognized for that expertise and it's comfortable to deal in that area. So just think if you're a network admin. You know Cisco equipment. You know it really well. You know your Cisco rep really well. And all of this stuff is second nature to you. Now you're asked to tie it, put up a connection between yourself and AWS, a VPC because you're going to move applications out there. And really, you're not a network guy anymore. You are a design guy to help move applications to the cloud. And it's an uncomfortable space to be in. So you can sort of, there's a couple options. You could say, this too shall pass. (And it won't.) That's I think, a losing proposition. I think you can move to a network provider and say, "Look, I'm still a network guy I can do networking." Or you're going to have to find a way to take the skills that you have and the mindset that you have and work in this new environment. Now that's not easy to do and one of the things that some of the large organizations I deal with are doing is they're bringing in people who grew up in this area and they're trying to seed the education of their own people. Because they're good people right? They know the culture, they know the business. They just don't have the skills that they need today so going to training's not going to help them. Doing it by example with people who've done it before is very important. >> All right how about outcomes? Is there anything you can share from your GE experiences or some of the customers you're working through as to kind that high level of what this means now you know is there a success finish line? Or is it a continuing journey? >> I think the success finish line is actually doing what you're supposed to do for the organization without actually anybody knowing it. Not being in the way. So from my perspective its end users or be they customers, suppliers, internal people, being able to do their job in a frictionless manner but you being able to do your job and the security side is protecting them and the network side, it's making sure they're getting the best user experience out there. And the CIO side is that they're using the best tools for the job. That's it for me. I'm tired, and I have been tired and I don't think it's right for the people that we provide technology or technology solutions to choose our technology as a last technology of choice. But they'd really like to use something else? We should give them that flexibility if it meets the risk appetite of the organization. So to me it's end user satisfaction is the most important thing because that allows you to do your job. Dissatisfied users will always find a way around whatever you put in their way. And that's not good for them, not good for the organization. So that's it for me. >> Great you've been now with Zscaler for four years, tell what's changed in the landscape. Security? You said to board-level discussion absolutely, something we hear, comment I've made is it went from kind of top of mind, bottom of budget, to, you know, no, this is something that actually you're not going to put it off for another quarter or year, you're going to take care of it now. >> So I actually think it's kind of counter-intuitive, what changed...is that I believe that five years ago, security was top of mind and there was a boatload of money thrown at it and that money got spent but nobody was able to prove that they were any more secure than the next guy. The metrics weren't there. I mean if you can't define what your network is, how can you stand in front of your board and say my network is... And so I think there's been a questioning of, are we spending enough on security but not only enough, are we spending it the right areas? Because what we've been doing sort of doesn't make me feel any better. You know, sure we meet our regulatory requirements but that's compliance, that's not security. So I think people are actually questioning, are we doing the right things for the business that we're in today versus the business that we were in in the past? And do we have the right conversation going with the board? Versus a red-yellow-green chart about here's how we think we're secure. And I think that's made a big difference. And I also think the discussion around where information resides and how important that information is and then ultimately how well you mitigate any risk to it, is the most relevant conversation that happens today. It's not, I'm not going to ignore ransomware and things like that but its not "Oh my God I'm getting attacked a million times a day." It's "Do I have something that's of value to somebody else and it will kill me as an organization or hurt me drastically if I lose it." And if I don't know where it is I'm probably going to lose it. Either deliberately or by mistake. So do I have those right controls in place? >> Yeah I'd love to get your commentary, there are certain companies out there that they have the message, you know, security's broken, we need a do-over, you know, the latest- -and-greatest software-defined cloud-based something or other isn't going to solve it, but you know, you've been in this space for decades, so you know where are we as a industry with security today, you feel that we're making progress? Sounds like it. >> I do feel that we're making progress. I think as an industry we recognize that the problem exists, and the problem that exists today is different from the problem that is existed seven, eight, ten, even fifteen years ago, that's number one. Number two is the competitive landscape of companies out that are huge today versus the companies that were huge ten years ago. It's a much different landscape. And these are all what I would call digital companies. They found a way to use information. You know things like Airbnb. It's an information business is all it is. And it's not a Marriott, it's not a Hilton, but it's a competitor to those guys. And I think that's a realization that business are having and that's filtering down into the IT organizations. You know ,we see a lot of companies -- which I don't necessarily agree with -- hiring Chief Digital Officers in addition to Chief Information Officers. And I see that as a bifurcation of the CIO as a back-room office guy and the CDO now is customer-facing. I think this whole thing has to be customer-facing and take advantage of the tools that are out there whether you provide them or whether you get them from somebody else, in a secure and safe enough manner that your business feels comfortable operating. So that's what's changed, I don't think it's...even the hardcore security guys, you know, we've had a lot of breaches in the past. Every one of those breaches, everyone had a firewall, everyone had a proxy. Everybody had all the tools that everybody else had and nobody could prevent those breaches. I think the fact of the matter is you want to prevent the harm of a breach occurring versus spending all your time making sure your breach doesn't occur. So I think that's a different mindset. >> Larry, I want to give you the final word. We've been going through this series of the digial cloud transformation, give us your final take away. >> So I don't like digital transformation as a word I think it's been overused. I think businesses are changing and adapting to what the opportunities and risks are today. With that, the whole organization has to face into that and say "This is where we can win, this is where we have to be good enough, and this is what's dragging us down." And they have to address all of them. I think in order to do that, one thing that an IT organization has to do is head-on, face its legacy debt. You can't play in this world with legacy debt. And if you don't start now, five years from now you're still going to be complaining about it. It's like that old, you know, Chinese proverb, when was the best time to plant a tree? One hundred years ago. When's the second best time? Today. If you don't address your legacy with your board head-on, your business will lose. That's number one. Number two is, don't go it alone. Get the talent who's done this before. This is not moving from, you know, from Cobalt, to C, to C++. This isn't an incremental change. Fundamentally the way that the cloud works in a way that your corporate network will work once its the internet, is fundamentally different than anything we've done before. Take advantage of people who've done it. Use that to seed your organization's growth. And then finally, there's no stopping this train. There's nothing that's going to happen cataclysmically that's going to stop this. On the other hand don't throw out the baby with the bath water, because most organizations as I said earlier are still going to have legacy applications in their data center. Just make them look as if they're modern applications, and it's a win for everybody. >> Larry Biagini, thank you so much for sharing all of your history and your customers' journeys. >> Thanks for having me. >> All right and thank you as always for watching theCUBE, I'm Stu Miniman. Thanks for watching.

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the queue covering your red. Have some twenty nineteen brought to you by bread. >> Welcome back to the Cube. Continuing coverage here read. Had some twenty nineteen day three of our three days of covering some nine thousand attendees, great keynotes, great educational sessions and a couple of great guests for you to meddle. And John Walls were joined by Marco Bill Peter, who is the senior vice president of customer experience and engagement at Red Hat. Good to see you, Marco. Thanks for having the job on the keynote stage this morning. And Dr Christoph back, who was the head of infrastructure from Hilty and Christof. Thank you for being here is Well, thankyou. Hailing from from election Stein. And we think you're the first guest alum were to check our database, But But we've set a new record today. So thanks for adding to our having. First off, let's talk about Hilty. I'm sure people don't stay healthy. I've seen them, but this building probably wouldn't be here without you. Have imagined half the city wouldn't be here without you. But just tell folks at home a healthy a little bit about where you fit into the construction. >> Lt was founded in the nineteen forties in principality of a Lichtenstein as and is now today leading supplier for the construction industry. We provide tours, consumables, services and software solutions for professional construction companies. Daddy's from hammer drills, two anchors to calculation software and overall complete services for the industry. That's what hell is doing. >> So you did a very good job this morning on the keynote of painting that picture about about the scope of your work and the necessity of your work, the vitality of it. Because construction projects, as we all know, how very strict deadlines. Sometimes they have unique needs. They have immediate needs emergency needs, and you're in the center of all that. And so your technology is central to your general operation. >> Absolutely yes. I mean, with twenty five thousand or twenty nine thousand employees, twenty five thousand users in our system, basically, everybody's using everyday ASAP or the fast majority of users. We have ten thousand concurrent users every day on our system. That deal with customer requests with orders with quotes, but also, of course, with complaints with repair handling and so on. In >> just a few. Yeah, just >> so Marco, I hear ASAP and, you know, bring me back to when? Oh, well, you know, Lennox was that stuff that sat on little sidelines. We're well past that. You've got so many customers that run their business, you know, mission critical around the globe. Just give give, give us a little bit of background on the partnership with Hilty and Red Hat and Solutions like asap. >> Yes, sure. Yeah. The Department of Hilty goes back to, I think, two thousand seven for me. Personally, I started working with Hilton for another company in ninety three. So I know where the hell did Quite well, actually studied in the same town next to Lichtenstein, Son of the mail. And And it's it's amazing to see the journey kind of two thousand nine going all s ap mission critical on rail and now actually moved to Asa P s for Han. And yes, Hill is one ofthe declines. But it kind of talks that we can handle this mission. Critical applications are mission critical customers and built this good relationship to make sure they have these these courage to actually do this Bold jumps limited The last six months. >> Christoph, you know you've got a broad, you know, roll at the at the company way talked to so many companies on becoming a tech company on becoming a software company. Well, software is critical, but at the end of the day, you know, infrastructure and running your business is core. You know, you're not going to become a fully digital software. You have real stuff in the physical world that lots of people and lots of, you know, physical things that need to go to a little bit about that balance. And now the company has been changing over those last ten years. >> I was excited to be open with you. I was really excited when our executive board a couple of years ago, besides tools, consumables and services also added software into a strategic pillar for Hilty. Um, and while I believe that software will be an interesting pillar for us, well will generate additional revenue, will generate additional sales from early. Also in the consumables and tools and services piece software becomes more and more important when you look at the journey off building a building like this. As you mentioned John, I mean it starts with specifying it starts with the planning on CD, and it ends at the end with with Asset Management. Where are the tours and so on. So it's a complete life cycle through out the building off off throughout the construction of ah building. You >> know, Marco had mentioned that you made this decision to migrate Ohana last year right? Twenty eighteen or or where he might be rated last year? Isn't last year's decision made before that? Talk about that a little bit, if you would please and where Red Hat fit into that? Because that that's that's not a small decision, right? I mean, that's a That's a very calculated and I wouldn't not risky, but it's It's just a big move. Yeah, and so the confidence that you had a CZ well, that red hat was your partner to make that happen. >> Absolutely. I mean, the announcement of SAPI to support Hana as thie only database after twenty twenty five voice one off the factors to push us into that direction, that that was then clear for us that we want to go there. And it was also pretty clear for us that in our size it was not that easy to move in twenty twenty three or something like that in that direction, but that we have to be the first movers to be fully supported by ASAP and >> all >> these Parkins because later on, they will be busy with migrating all the big shots. So Wade took the decision to move first and soon, and that allowed us to be in the focus off all thes attached partners ASAP. But also read had also tell emcee for storage and HP for for servers. That meant that we had confidence that we have full attention from all these providers and partners to help us to migrate. On the other hand, it was clear the the the journey we started in two thousand nine has indicated by Marko that we moved to an open software that we move to commodity hardware. Intel based server hardware was a move that had paid off in the past, and we didn't want to go away from that and move again to a proprietary hardware or software solutions. So it was very clear that we want to do that jointly with red hat on commodity and until based service and That's how we went there, Right? >> So, Christophe, big theme, we hear not only at this show, but almost every show we go to is today customers. It's, you know, the hybrid and multi cloud world I see ASAP at all of the Big Cloud shows that that that we cover well, we're just cloud fit into your over discussion, you know, at your company. And then, you know, we can drill down to the specifics of that sapien red hat. But it's what do you have? A cloud strategy, as it were? >> Oh, yes, you know, we moved fairly soon to Amazon with all our customer facing workload. So when you go to hilton dot com or any of our Web pages, you typically land on a ws powered website because that one gave us the flexibility off operating systems off databases of whatever we needed. That was that was available there with our internal workload. However, So all the software we use Internet eternally toe run the company. We have a world that is split between ASAP, which runs entirely on Red hat, um, and the rest of the workload. Witches to a large degree, windows based workload so there. We decided a few years ago to Movinto Microsoft Azure platform to move the internal workload into Azure as it is mainly Windows based. >> So Marco actually want one a depart from healthy for a second. Just give us a little bit of a broad view. You know, we've talked to you many times. You talked about the stage. You know, the customer experiences a critical piece of red hats mission out there When I talk to customers today, One of the biggest changes they've seen the last few years is I'm managing a lot of stuff that's not in my environment. It's the stuff I'm responsible for it and something goes wrong. I'm absolutely getting a call, but you know, it's not my network. It's not my servers. It's not my piece there, but I have to do all of them, you know, got imagine. That's been a transformation for red Hat in the partnerships, and you're everywhere, so it just gets a little context. Yeah, I >> mean, you described it very well, right? I mean, I think the last two years before, I think it was just like some use cases in the public club. But today. The harder cloud is here, right? And everybody does it right. It's not like just one company from a customer experience to stand behind. Like I mentioned it on the state gets harder. Right? And you gonna have these partnerships, right? One partnership, right. We can talk about the azure. We have people in enrichment, right? Think about it today. And then everything changed with start having on stage here. But we have support people in micro for the last two or three years, right? Same diff ASAP as an example, right? We have people. We actually build a fairly large teeming, involved off to be close of us. Time together. I want to do that speed ASAP. A cloud bead on regular bear closes in general. Yes, That challenges. You mentioned networking, right? It gets tricky, right? And he shifted from, but it's unavoidable, right? It shifted from, like, okay, we own and control the stacked kind of too. Yes, you need to know you're open source after and to have really partnerships. Right? And I think the announcement Microsoft, too have this managed services offering that we do joint. It's That's what we're driving so that we can do this better together with partners. >> Marco is great to hear you that but Christoph, he's not listening. Tell us to reality. You've worked with Red Hat for ten years. You're going to cloud how they doing? How's the ecosystem, the vendors in general? They're all up on stage, holding hands. I mean, it's it's seamless and nobody ever point fingers. I'm sure >> to be very, very honest with you. I mean, I appreciate it last year, hearing that redhead will be offered in Azure. I mean, that was not possible to mention those two company names in one sentence in the past, at least for us as customers, and that that was a bold statement last year that those two parties will suddenly join. That fits very well in our strategy, because we believe internal workload for Hilton should run in in In Azure seeing on last Tuesday, Microsoft and Red Hat shaking hands and movie. Even beyond that one was, for me, them almost the most exciting event here, or the most exciting statement that I saw here during these few days because that reemphasized the close relationship that those two have, and that exactly fits our road map. That's exciting. >> And, you know, we heard that, you know, again from from both CEO Saying customers really kind of brought us together. They made this deal work because we kept hearing that they love us and they love you, and they like us together. So So we got that. We understand that. So? So Marco customers drove that to a certain degree. You've got a customer here who made this big Hana jump, which is you say small guy. You know, I would beg to differ little bit that you had him before the big guys did. But what, like an initiative like that? What is that doing for you? What? Red hat. In terms of carrying that over to other customers. Now, you've learned from one you've seen what they've gone through. What kind of confidence does that give you? What kind of interest does it give you about how to approach this game? >> Absolutely. You know what we learned from give you one example right? If you moved his heart ever closer Christopher Hilty uses systems have twelve terabytes memory. Think about it that fairly large systems and that foot train tried to actually test our softer with that footprint and then even think about the next. Next journey is in if you want to do this in the cloud. What does that mean? If you take a twelve terabyte image and running in a double? Yes. And so that is, since my team also does quality assurance and product security. That's for them as well as in. Okay, we've seen what tilted can do work. How do we actually make this more robust? How do we test you are there? And how do we do that in this journey? It's, I think I'm pretty proud of how we actually learn from these instances, and health is not the only one. It's just one the republic. But yet it's every time. I think that's the only survived is into industry. If you really learn continuously and also applied right. I mean our whole setup involved or we shifted completely and not just from the people. They have theirs. So we have people that do open. Chief. There were people do Lennox and performance, but also from structure. I really be sure that they were set up for success and know what the next they have customers is obviously every casting off. A message we will do will go through a journey license over the next ten years. >> Kristoff obviously being on stage, you know it is good for the company, but coming to Red Hat Summit one. Just give our audience that if they hadn't come to it. Some of the value is, too what you place in some, the activities that have excited you most here this week. >> I mean, one thing is, of course, hearing about latest technologies, new releases, off software, off new possibilities and opportunities for us as customers from Red Hat. But also, it's great to see how on the floor out there other partners customers on DH fingers mingle around the ecosystem that created that was created around open software about, ah, not only operating system, but also about containers about all these those different technologies, which I have an important role for all of us in nineteen the future. >> Sure. Well, good week, that's for sure. Very nice job you get on the Kino stage to both of you and good luck with the partnership on down the road. And again, I would make the difference that way. little guys got in early hilt. He's no small fry in inner world, that's for sure. Thanks for the time, Krystof. Marco. Thank you. Thank you very much. Back with more. We're live here in Boston and we're covering the red hat. Summer twenty nineteen on the

[Music] [Applause] I'm Peter verse and welcome to the queue we're having a quick conversation with Megan Eisenberg CMO of MongoDB a leader in the next-generation database market and you're gathering the community in a couple weeks yeah the people who are trying to build these next-generation applications what's going on yes so it's our largest annual user conference it's in New York June 27th and it will be at the Hilton Midtown and we're going to do some major product announcements we talked earlier in the year February about MongoDB 4.0 transactions are coming so we'll have that huge announcement as well as several other products so would love to invite developers in the area to come and learn more so it's a great opportunity for the developer and other communities associated with advanced data management to come together share ideas share stories make progress advance the cause yes yes Megan Eisenberg CMO MongoDB thanks very much for being on the cube thank you [Music] you

from New York it's the cube covering blockchain week now here's John furry hello everyone welcome back to this special cube exclusive on the water coverage of the awesome cryptocurrency event going on this week blockchain week New York City D central Anthony do re oh seven a big special event launching some great killer products me up to cube alumni that we introduced at polycon 2018 Genevieve Dec Monroe and Jeromy Gartner great to see you guys thanks for having us so you guys look fabulous you look beautiful you're smart we're on a boat we're partying it feels like Prague it feels like prom feels like we are at the top of another bubble couldn't feel better five more boat parties and then the bubbles officially at the top but we're only had the first boat party well the real existential question is what do we view next you know we've we've graduated from nightclubs and strip clubs and now two super yachts like do we go on a spaceship neck's or a Boeing Jets yeah I mean the options are somewhat limited in how we scale up the crypto parties I actually heard today one of my clients is launching in space a crypto mining operation that's fueled by solar power so we might be going to space Elon Musk wants to get involved I agree like where are we going you guys are awesome I love the creative so this party to me is really a testament of the community talk about the community I see polycon was great in Puerto Rico they had restart week and that but I heard these guys saying here at the central that the community's fragmented is the community fragmented seems like it's not out there or just only one pocket of the community I think the community so we have 10,000 people at consensus okay so these are 10,000 people that have gone down the rabbit hole and they're all at the Hilton in midtown Manhattan kind of going like how'd you get involved why are you here 10,000 people is a lot but I think that yeah we're we're at the decentral party so some of the yeast communities are being fragmented but I think we're having like infrastructure built to kind of connect the broader world to the things whether it's custodial services whether it's like tonight the jocks 2.0 wallet and you know everything that's getting involved there I don't know Jeremy Jeremy it's like an international traveler so you Carly Jeremy it's 100 percent in an echo chamber more importantly rabbit holes are like dark and confusing places that there are they're winding and a lot of people are here for very different reasons and thus when you have all these new entrants to the industry to this technology here for all these different reasons of course you have some fragmentation you know in many regards the ideological and philosophical roots of Bitcoin and blotchy technology have been lost son on many of the new entrants and and so it takes time to get to the point where we're all winding I think different blockchains and different applications of this technology will have different kind of approaches to how people think about investors always gonna be pragma because this is a massively growing industry that touches upon every kind of business and governmental and non-governmental it's actually fragmentation is a relative chairman is Genevieve you I saw you and you guys are working with things from cannabis coin I think you had to cannabis cabin this week in New Yorker yeah we're doing that tomorrow night actually so crypto and cannabis are two the hottest millennial sectors right and so we kind of like to say Agri capital we like to dance on the edge of chaos I actually found out about a cannabis company in Vancouver so just outside Vancouver that is using a crypto mining operation and all the excess heat that is coming off that to power a grow-op so we're literally at the intersection of crypto and cannabis not just for our handling money but handling energy in a different way which is so fast that's real mission impact investing right there you know using energy to grow weed that's the Seidel impact isn't it good bad I mean even as you look at it you know better cannabis healthy cannabis is a mission people look care about we're helping people's wallets and we're helping people's minds right in like ways that the government banks and pharmaceutical companies are fighting against so you know if you can't beat them join them so I welcome Astra Zeneca and the Bank of Canada to come on board our mission this is specially turning into a cube after dark episode Jeremy I gotta get your thoughts on these industries because look at cannabis we joke about it but that's an example of another market this zilean markets that are coming online that are gonna be impacted so fragmentation is a relative terms but hey look at it I mean energy tech is infrastructure tech and solid that's what I'm concerned about who nails the infrastructure for network effects and what's the instrumentation for that that's the number one question that is essential question for the protocols whether it's Theory amore Bitcoin oreos Definity so forth the protocol that provides the strongest and and most adaptable and infrastructure and foundational technology is going to be one of the main ones are those will be the main winners and so the names I mentioned they're up there they're very competitive but it's anybody's game right now I think any blockchain can come along right now and be the winner a decade from now and for entrepreneurs represents a challenge because you have to figure out what blocks came to go build on this is why I am big on investing in interoperable Ledger's technologies that enable the kind of transfer smart contracts and crypto assets between blockchains it's a great great segue let's just get an update since we last talked what are you working on what are you investing in what's new in your world share the update on strangers so now my fund is officially launched where how much we launched with just over 15 million dollars and amazingly we launched at the perfect time we're already up 55% and we got making an investment for a venture fund we actually did the exact WA T investment which transferred over from my personal investment portfolio but doing great I have really run the gamut in terms of investments we're making on the equity side of things and in crypto assets but what we're seeing is really accomplished entrepreneurs coming to this space continue actually more optimism than I had felt at polygon poly car and I was like this market needs to correct in a real way today I think that Corrections been prolonged if we were gonna feel a lot of pain it was gonna be two months ago but instead I think it's gonna be one to three years before the market goes through the correction that we need to see for the real shakeout to happen because so many of these teams that I think are garbage have so much money yeah and they're just floating around they got has worked their way out it's just like a bad burrito at some point it's got a pass Genevieve what are you working on I'll see you've got grit capital what's the update on your end what's new yeah amazing actually literally tonight probably about 60 minutes ago my business partner and I signed one of the fastest-growing exchanges in Canada called Einstein exchanges of quiet so these guys have only ever raised like one and a half million u.s. and they're the biggest exchange in Canada by sign ups active accounts so they're probably doing like almost a hundred million in top-line transaction volumes and they're probably never going public somebody's probably gonna buy them but we're gonna be marketing them across the country getting customers I mean the tagline is it doesn't take I'm Stein to open an account it shouldn't take n Stein it by Bitcoin you can literally get this account set up in under 60 seconds so they're vampires ease-of-use surety reducing the steps it takes to do it and get it up and running fast absolutely like my dad could do it and like alright so we say now follow you on Instagram and Facebook which is phenomenal by the way I got a great lifestyle what's the coolest thing you've done since we last talked to Polycom Wow polycon was kind of a high really peaked and then everyone got sick like our team got said polymath untraceable cuz everybody just got the flu yeah we were like on adrenaline and we kept going ah what's the coolest thing that we've done since then I think it's signing up like cool companies like Einstein we also signed a big cannabis company in Colombia called Chiron they're about to go public I don't know Cole what do you think I don't know maybe what's the coolest thing you've done travel what's your good so last night Jeremy and I just met we're together on a blockchain Research Institute project that Sonova Financial is backing and meeting him so you guys working together on a special project right now how's that going what's that about JCO which is a new sort of financial services firm they're creating what it could effectively be understood as a compliant coin offering that is available to more than just accredited investors and that's they're making ico something that falls within the pre-existing regulatory framework and also accessible to your average Joe which I think it's really important if we're going to follow the initial vision for both blockchain technology and offerings all right final question I know you guys want to get back to your dancing and schmoozing networking doing big deals having fun what is blockchain New York we call about we could pop chain we here in New York what the hell's happening there's been a lot of events what's your guy's assessment of you observed and saw anything can you share for the people who didn't make it to New York or not online reading all the action what's happened so as someone that did not attend consensus spoke at three other events or speaking at three other events I can say with certainty that the New York box chain week has been about bringing together virtually everyone in the industry to connect and kind of catch up with one another which is really important we we don't have that many events Miami was too short the industry's gotten too big but having a full week of activities in New York City has enabled me to kind of foster relationships are oh I yeah man get a lot of work John well I've gotten so much work done I haven't had to actually be a date conferences to reconnect with just about everyone that I want to industry that's really special Genevieve what is your observation what have you observed share some in anecdote some insight on what happened this week I know fluid he started I saw Bilt's I was just chatting with him about it it was started in over the weekend it's gone up and we're now into Thursday tomorrow coming up well I don't think it's a coincidence that Goldman Sachs came out today and said that they were launching some sort of digital currency marketing yeah exactly using the power of the 10,000 people i consensus but yeah i know i agree with what jeremy says it's not really about being at consensus it's about what happens like behind closed doors it's all these decentralized parties that are happening yeah open doors but like it's you know like we hosted a core capital asset we had a hundred people in a suite at the dream hotel and it was just like you put the biggest CEOs of the mining companies in the world together and like put those with investors in a room it's like you know 100 people and that's where the deals happen it's not like in the big you know huge auditorium where like nobody looks at each other and everyone's on their phone well I gotta tell you how do we know we the Entrepreneurship side is booming so I totally love the entrepreneurial side check check check access to capital new kinds of business model stuff economics so we reported on all that to me the big story is Wall Street in New York City has been kind of stuck the products kind of like our old is antiquated like the financial products and like that's why Goldman's coming out they got nothing what they don't have anything what are they got so you see in a stagnant they got a traditional product approximately nothing really like new fresh so you got in comes crypto just do a crypto washer so I think I see the New York crowd going this is something that is exciting and we could product ties potentially so I don't think they know yet what that is but I think some of the things that are going on you guys I like I like so I my dad's always the kind of barometer to this whole thing and he's like when are they gonna come out with like a Salesforce stock column for the blockchain right like some sort of application that it doesn't matter if you're like illegal if you're like in investment banking like some sort of pervasive application that just goes wild you have that yet what is that happening Jeremy Jeremy did the date was it's the Netscape moment if you will the moment that blotching technology becomes tangible and now and in retrospect a few years out we may decide that's great for all the young browsers is a browser the original browse for the Internet that was that moment may have already happened we don't really know it maybe it been something like a theory a more augered you know something where there's a use case but people haven't wrapped their heads around it yet but if that hasn't happened yet it's coming it's where we're on the cusp of it because people know what bitcoin is they've heard of the blockchain it is part of the zeitgeist now and and that cultural relevance it's so important for having that Netscape moment Jeremy Jeremy thanks so much to spend the time here on the ground on the water for our special cube coverage of blockchain week new york city consensus you had all kinds of different events you had the crypto house where we were at tons of fluidity conference all this stuff going on good to see you guys you look great thanks for sharing the update here and the cube special coverage I'm John Faria thanks for watching Thanks

(exciting music) >> Announcer: From New York it's The Cube. Covering Blockchain Week. Now here's John Furrier. >> Hello everyone, welcome back this is The Cube. I'm John Furrier your co-host here. Host here in New York City for Consensus 2018 part of Blockchain Week, New York And we have Mimi Delam who is also the Co-Founder of the Crypto Rally Project. We just had your partner on welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you so very much for having me here. I'm really grateful. So yeah lovely to see you in New York. >> Great to see you and I love the project we just heard the details about the Crypto Rally. >> That's correct. >> So what's your take on it. I mean it's exciting, what's your role? >> I mean besides being super exciting for us it's a very new way of us making a huge impact and a difference in the Blockchain world for the people who are around here taking it to another level through the media. And the sponsorships. I mean my role personally is that I'm a co-founder from the very nice team of the girls. Gaile, Agne and and me and a couple more people involved. We are very happy to take it to another level. We want people to have just a way of life so we're trying to make it. >> I love the excitement of the project and you guys have a great team but I love the international perspective. You guys were in London. And you came from Lithuania. >> Exactly. >> And London so it's going to start in London or Lithuania? Where's the rally going to start? >> Okay I'll tell you all in the details. So we started, I mean me, myself I lived for many years in London and our founder Agne been living there for many years as well, we started our Crypto Rally in Lithuania in July it's going to take place and then afterwards we're taking it to Dubai. The rest of the world countries who are very happy to take the country, sorry, we're very happy to take the place in the Cryptos and we're going to travel all around the world with this inception. It's like Formula One it starts from one place right now it's all around the world. >> And what's the goal to have fun? Educate people on Crypto? What's the objective? >> Objective is of course to educate the people for them to be a part of the Blockchain and a part of the something which is coming up new. We want to make sure that people are aware of the new world because it's very clear the fourth industrial revolution is coming, 3.0 life is totally different we cannot be living the same way any more. And of course we want to have fun. >> All right now what's it like in Lithuania right now? What's the culture for the Blockchain? Are people, must be exciting, what's the vibe? >> I'll tell you Lithuania is extremely educated and very high tech and fast moving so for us it's very important to make the spirit, the small country but it's very easy to communicate and make everything ready. We are very well known in the blocked in world and we want to take it to another level. Of course as I mentioned we're going to the different countries, we're bringing the concept over there. We're very happy to host in a different places. So that's our aim, just to the spread the world. >> Maybe you can help us bring The Cube to Lithuania? We need some hosts. >> We definitely would love to do that. >> Well you're a natural host and great mission. I love what you're doing. What's it like here in New York for you? What's your observation? What are you seeing? Do you like the content? Have you met some cool people? What's it like explain for people who aren't here? >> Okay. >> What's it like? >> So Consensus itself is one of the most exclusive, unique opportunities to be a part in the event. There are so many fascinating people. Very educated and forward thinkers, like mind blowing ideas just around the places. There are so many people. It's impossible to even get a track of it. I'm very excited to be in New York because to be a part of this event makes a huge difference and I'm just fascinated about every single day what is going on it's a whole week of events, whole week of the communication and meetings non-stop. And then. >> Social too. >> It's very social and people are very happy to hear about Crypto Rally. >> What's your favorite thing here in the event? What's, what do you like the best? What was your number one thing? >> I mean I like to be interviewed by you. (laughs) >> Oh, ticket. >> Bingo there it is, The Cube number one. Thank you for saying that. >> Thank you so much. >> Besides The Cube interview? (laughs) What session? The people, parties, was there any special moment so far that you think is a highlight besides The Cube interview? >> I mean to be honest I really do enjoy the after parties where the people are becoming more open because the first part, bit of the day is a lot of business going on. >> Yep. >> And then afterwards you're going to the more personal relationships and then becoming a little bit of the friendly. And obviously this is exactly what we want to replicate in the Crypto Rally if that makes sense. >> Yeah. >> Because we want to have four days events to start from, meet the people hang out with them, have a good business interaction with them and educate each other. That's what I love about after, afternoon parties over here. >> Yeah it's good. >> Because you know about. >> You want to meet people's soul, get to know who they are. >> Exactly, exactly it's nice to have a good connection and connectivity. >> Yeah. >> People have a great energy here and it's like the brightest minds are meeting here. Which is beautiful. >> Love your energy Mimi, love to have you on. What URL can we get the information at for the Crypto Rally? >> All right so guys right now you have to go to www.Cryptorally2018.com, #CryptoRally2018 or @Cryptorally2018. Please join us and tweet or telegram and all around the social media we're happy to be. >> How can someone get involved? How do sponsors get involved? How do people get involved in the project? >> I mean you have to apply for it. We are taking as well, we are taking it through the application process because we want to build a very community based first Crypto Rally. The, I mean just go on the website, reach us out, we're very happy to talk with everybody right now we want to have a community. We want to bring it to another level and I mean. >> Of course. >> I mean that's how it works right? >> We support you. We'll be a media sponsor, a media supporter. Thank you for coming on. >> Thank you so very much. >> Nice to see you. >> For having me. >> You're very welcome >> Really thank you very much. >> You're welcome, great energy great voice, love the new talent coming into the New York scene, bringing the global perspective here. Really exciting ecosystem that's developing, great tight knit community here in The Cube. Mimi you're part of it, you guys are doing great work. Love your mission. I'm John Furrier on the ground here in the open. Here in New York City at the Hilton in Mid-Town Manhattan for Consensus 2018. More coverage after this break, thanks for watching. (exciting music)

>> Announcer: From New York, it's theCUBE covering Blockchain Week. Now here's John Furrier. >> Hello everyone, welcome back. I'm John Furrier, the host of theCUBE. We're here in New York City for on the ground coverage for three days, wall-to-wall for Blockchain Week, New York's part of Consensus 2018. Sold out show, we're out in the open. Open (mumbles) to all the cons here. Next guest is Alex Mashinsky, Founder and CEO of Celsius. Seasoned entrepreneur, great debater on stage, great brawl recently at the Milk Institute. We'll talk about that. But more importantly, he's got a great project called Celsius, welcome to theCUBE. Thanks. >> Thanks for having us, John. >> So, I love we just chatted before the camera turned on about some of the things you've done. You've gotten into a little bit of a great heated panel discussion. With someone who actually doesn't even hold cryptocurrency. He's saying it's all bullshit. >> Yes >> Right, so tell about the story. It was written up by Bloomberg, what was this famous brawl in the Milk Institute? >> Yeah, so the Milk Institute, they've been having conferences for the last 25 years and they're trying to combine the making money with doing good in the world, right? So, it's doing well and doing good at the same time. And that's what crypto is all about, right? And so, they had a panel about crypto with me and Nouriel Roubini, who's like Doctor Doom who predicted the last 15 recessions. There were only two, but they were predicted all 15 of them. So, I was telling him, even a broken clock is right twice a day, you know? He was going at me, he was going at the community, he was calling it a scam. And when you don't own any coin and you have not come to an event like this and seen 8,000 people celebrate this innovation, power to the people, then what are you talking about? So, I was there to really defend the community. It wasn't about me or him. >> Yeah, you did a good job. Well, thank you for doing that. Also, you're on a great project. I've been talking about a lot of other things I want to get to in the industry that you have a view and opinion on I would like to get. But your project Celsius. Take a minute to explain that, because I think this highlights really what's going on. I chatted earlier today about token economics. This is a new way, a new infrastructure, a new capability, a new mechanism that's really becoming powerful, of a network effect. >> Yes. >> So, the old world was DNS. 30 years-old stack on ecommerce, search engines, they're not accurate for network effects, a new dynamic, new data source is happening and it's creating new value, new data. >> Yes. >> Talk about Celsius the project and your value proposition. >> Right, so Celsius Network is basically trying to create an algorithmic cloud-based solution that does everything in your best interest. So, you have to think of it as a basket of financial services that do simple things like give you a loan or allow you to earn interest, give you access to a lot of great financial products, insurance and other things, that altogether do everything in your best interest. And what we're doing is we're enabling 100 million new people to come into the cryptocommunity and enabling them to benefit from all these things both for the increase in the value of the coins but also allowing their money to earn money for them. And today, if you think about banks, right? They take your money, right? You make a deposit, they take your money, they'll lend it to me on my credit card, they charge me 25%, they give you 1%. So, they take all that margin that you talked about. They squeeze all of that and keep it to themselves. >> And they're representing two people. It's like a realtor, who do you represent, the buyer or the seller? >> They're a toll collector in the middle, exactly. They're not adding any value. >> So, the new shift is on user value-- >> Exactly. >> And you see real-world examples of this. The whole Facebook debacle, who owns your data, and Mark Zuckerberg was testifying in front of the Senate in Congress, saying, "No, we don't sell your data." But they license the data and they use it. >> They extract all the value from it. >> They don't actually sell the data, true. But they license the shit out of it, to target you. >> They squeeze every last penny out of it. >> This is now obvious to people. >> Yes. >> That problem. >> Yes. >> Talk about the cryptobenefits, where is this shift happening, users, the power to the people, I get the phrase, but where is it happening? The token level-- >> So for example, Yeah, let's take an example, so most of the people here on this floor, they take their coins, they put them in exchanges, they celebrate the fact that the coin went up 50, 100% or whatever, but they don't realize that they leaving a lot of money on the table, because these exchanges do shorting, front-running, all kind of other stuff that should be illegal, but they do it, so they announce these amazing earnings, Binance announced amazing earnings and a lot of that earnings comes from the money that should be given back to you and me. So, if you think about the credit card company giving you two percent back, this is kind of the same thing. We are basically taking all of that earnings and giving it back to the coin-holders and we're saying, "Don't keep your money on exchanges, keep your money in a wallet that represents your best interest." It extracts all that value and gives it back to you. >> And so, what's your value proposition? You know what, you should say, "Use our wallet, use our system." >> Right. >> And then you represent their currency? >> So, we huddle together, we create a giant pool of BTC, a giant pool of ETH, or other coins, and we lend against that. So, we can do loans to the community, we charge nine percent for asset-backed loans, basically, so you need a loan against your crypto. This way you don't have to pay taxes, you can defer your tax, you can get liquidity without triggering all the tax that today you have to-- or you can just earn interest. So, without selling the coins, you can basically generate five to nine percent income that's continuous on top of that appreciation, you still get all the appreciation of the coin, but you're also generating income. >> So, you can bring contextual services around the crypto-holder interest. >> Yeah, so we find people willing to pay that. For example, other crypto-holders who want a loan, and they pay us nine percent, we give five percent to the community. Hedge funds who short BTC or ETH, they pay us ten or 15%, we give most of it back to the community. But the beauty is that the coin-holder doesn't have to do anything. They don't have to move from this account to that account. They don't do transactions. All they have to do is decide if Celsius Network is doing everything in their best interest or not. And the point is is that the next 100 million people that are going to join crypto, they're not speculators or anarchists or libertarians like most of the people here on the floor. They're people who kind of look at all this, saying, "It's too complicated, I don't know what to do, I'm not going to get in at the right time, I'm not going to get out at the right time." They don't have anyone they can trust. >> So, I'm going to be able to ask the Average Joe six-pack question, "Hey that's all fine, I love what you're doing. Come on, sign me up. But wait a minute. If you put all this crypto in one spot, the frickin' hackers are going to get it. >> Right. >> Because, how do you protect me against-- I heard, see, Mt. Gox was in the-- and all this stuff's going on, I'm worried that it's going to get hacked. Even wherever I put it." >> Exactly. And then Nouriel basically asked me the same question. So, in 10 years since BitCoin was created, there hasn't been a single instance of anyone cracking the blockchain itself. All the theft, everything that happened was because we gave somebody our private key and we entrusted them with it, and they screwed up. Mt. Gox, it basically broke into the exchange and so on. So, we keep everything in cold storage. And it's not ours, we have a custodian that is a giant company that is willing to accept all that, keep it in cold storage and we lend against it. We lend against the pull. >> So the private key's going in cold storage? >> Everything is staying in cold storage, which is the safest way to keep your crypto. It's much safer than keeping it on an exchange or keeping it in a different place. >> And it's all through--it's encryption, it's never safe to--a private key's a private key. Right, I mean, we've seen this before. >> Exactly. >> It's not rocket science. >> But even if you keep it in your home, in your safe, that's not as safe as putting it in a facility that is resistant to nuclear attack and has four layers of security and no human can get into the last room. It's a physical connection. >> I've heard this problem, just estate planning, someone dies, where's his cryptokey? >> Exactly. >> Unlocking, say 30 to 100 million dollars' worth of crypto. >> Exactly. >> It's not obvious. Well, the guy was smart, he put it in lock boxes all around the country. Wait a minute, no one knows where they are. >> But as a custodian, if you show us that you are the ultimate heir and you have the legal representation, then we can handle it, right? We can transfer that. But really, you're protecting it against a hacker coming in and stealing it from you. All the legal ramifications still apply. >> So, let's talk about the industry. What do you like about the industry right now, and what do you think that needs more work on, faster, or behavior-wise, what's your general temperature-taking of the current community? A lot of back-end work being done. Some complaints I heard about the demos, where some people say the front end was pretty sucky. >> Yes. >> But I think that's because a lot of back end work's being done. >> Well, this reminds me of 95 through 2000, I wrote some of the original Void protocols and everybody told me it's not going to work, the Internet is too slow, you can't scale, it's not safe. >> Yeah. >> I hear the same arguments again and again. >> Exactly. >> Today a billion people use Void every day and they don't even know who created it or how it works. I go in a room, I do speeches, right? And I ask, "Who here knows how Void works?" Not a single hand goes up. So, we need to get to the point where blockchain and crypto works the same way, no one needs to understand how it works, they just need to use it and trust it. So, the biggest thing I think holding us up right now is actually not technical. Because there's over 130 different blockchains. And some of them solves the scalability issues and security issues. The problem is is that we kind of have the early adopter phase, but we cannot leapfrog into the mass adoption phase. Because we're still at the early phase of operation. >> Exactly, is this just evolution or is it something specific? >> Well, the applications that we have today are not things that most of the people on the planet can use. That's what I'm saying, like for example, lending and borrowing is much more attractive than trading coins with each other. >> Yeah, it's like the Web, and Web 1.0, I mean-- >> Exactly. >> Search was the first application, and then everyone went to there, check their stock quotes. >> Looking at travel-- >> Travel, buy your car-- >> Exactly. >> Basic Maslow's hierarchy of needs kind of things. >> Yes. >> So, but that was interesting, because it was a whole new way. And by the way, same arguments I heard in the Web. "It's so slow. A mini-computer's so much faster than this AOL thing at 9600 bot modem." But the apples weren't being compared to other apples. It was replacing direct mail where I used to put stamps on envelopes and mail things. >> That's right, look. The bank gives you one percent. We pay five percent. So, that is a very attractive reason to switch from the bank to Celsius. Also, most people don't realize that the power the bank has is because we make all the deposits there. We stop depositing money there, they will have to pay us five percent, because as the money leaves them, they will have to raise the rates, they're going to have to attract you with more interest. So, it's a win-win, the community wins on the crypto side, and we're forcing the banks to do the right thing. >> Alright, I want to get your opinion, Alex, on ICOs. Did you guys do an ICO? How much did you raise? And what's your general take of the ICO market? I mean, certainly, blockchain, I've said this before, takes inefficiencies and makes them highly efficient, and we know the capital markets are very inefficient, so it's a bubble, okay. I have a choice. Tokens or VC, it's a no-brainer, go tokens. >> So look, I've had coins since 2013, I've invested in over 30 ICOs myself, and then when I couldn't find what Celsius does, I decided to start a new company, this is my eighth company as a founder. And so, I raised a billion dollars on the VC side, I know how that world works, had plenty of exits, and here we went to the community, we excluded all the VCs, we did not take money from a single venture guy because this is all about building the community. So, we just closed our round, about a month ago, we raised $15 million. We had 15,000 people sign up, 95% men. And it just drove me crazy, because half of our company's women, I thought that at least half of the people would be female. And I realized how big the problem is that we do not-- I mean, if you look at the floor here, we do not include the stronger sex. So, she's female, exactly. >> I'm promoting it here. >> I agree, I'm a big supporter too, so, I think when you think about it, if we want to be inclusive and we want this revolution to take hold, we have to solve these problems. What is the killer app, where are the female participants, how do we make it global, how do we make it inclusive, and how do we make the user interface and everything else so simple that you don't have to understand anything to use it every day. >> And what's your vision on how the ICOs are going to trend? >> Right. >> More stability, obviously. It'll level out, the bubble will-- I don't think it'll be a massive pop, I think it's going to be a small squeeze, so I think there's enough community involvement that self-governance will kick, in my opinion, but what's your take on the ICO? >> So, we definitely, this is like a Cambrian explosion. So, we are throwing money at everything. So, we're throwing money at good projects, bad projects, it's like a spray-and-pray mentality of the old days in 95 to 2000, we've seen that before. But from this some great companies are going to be born and I think the winners here are going to be bigger than Google, bigger than Apple, because the market is bigger. Money is the biggest market in the world, right? There's nothing bigger than all the money in the world, by definition. So, it's bigger than advertising, it's bigger than the social networks and it's bigger than Apple and whatever they're making. So, I believe that out of these companies, there are several thousand companies here, 8,000 participants, there were 4,000 ICOs that already took place or that are coming to be and out of that you're going to have your giant winners. And obviously Celsius is hoping to be one of them, but it's whoever builds the biggest community is the one that's going to win. And for us, it's all about giving back everything to the community. >> Your mission is awesome, I love your mission, and I love your expertise, love your experience. I think the community really is great to have you being a champion, being a mentor, I know you're doing a lot of paying it forward, great job. What's your view for the young entrepreneur out there, or someone who's got a growing opportunity that says, "Hey, you know what? I'm actually tailor-made for decentralization, I have a network community, network effect, I have all these great things going on, I want to scale." >> That's a great question because-- >> What's the playbook? >> A lot of people come to me and say, Oh, I'm too late to the game." No one is too late to the game. The experts have a six month experience. So, you talk to most of the people here, this is the first event, this is the first show. So, what I say to a lot of entrepreneurs is that if you pick the right vertical, you can very quickly become the best in the world at it. And I think the first phase of evolution here in the blockchain is all about financial products and financial solutions. I wouldn't go after healthcare, I wouldn't go after-- so like, insurance, or solving financial problems that currently have giant toll collectors who collect all the value, like the banks, or like the financial service providers, the insurance and so on. So, if you can solve those areas, you can scale very quickly, because Interen already has six or seven billion people on it, so now you can just bring them all in and haggle on their behalf in the cryptocommunity. >> I feel like I should lie down on the couch and ask Dr. Alex for some more advice. So, I'm actually going to ask you some specific questions. >> No couch here, man! There's no off switch here. >> I'll pass out, so much action going on. I mean, the vibe here is amazing. So, theCUBE, we're doing an open token model, got a great community, we want to grow and be number one at digital media, covering events with a network effect, video and media. We see token as a great opportunity. What's your advice? You're on our advisory team, what do you tell us to do? >> So, the curation is excellent, I think you guys do a great job at pulling the content. And what's missing in this community is really an automated process that kind of asks the community, "What do you guys believe in?" It's very hard for most people here to figure out which ones of these thousands of projects are trending right now, for example. And we can all vote on our app, for example. If you could create an app that allowed all of us to vote during the show, on what's trending and you had those guys being interviewed instead of me, you would have the killer apps. All of us know what they are and are not, but we should vote on it. >> So, use collective intelligence of the data-- >> Yes. >> And make a content operating system-- >> Exactly, use your metadata that you're already producing to do real-time input and bring those guys here, interview them and ask them about why their projects are hot. Celsius, people ask me all the time, "How do I get involved? How do I get involved? I saw you on Rubena, I saw you on this show." And so, we manage to create a lot of buzz around us and there are a few other projects like that, the community needs to get around the good projects and support them, because when we spend a lot of money on bad projects, we're not giving enough support to the good projects. >> You got to close loop that data, make it a community brand. That's what you're doing, that's what we're trying to do here, covering the events. So, we're going to build a content operating system. >> There we go! >> Run-time assembly, whatever the votes-- >> Let everybody vote in real-time, yes. >> Give me 50 times I see the hashtag-- >> Right, and the size of the name grows based on the adoption. >> You would have to have, like, clips instantly available, you would have to have all the metadata-- >> It's all real-time. >> You'd have to have all that stuff available. >> And the community will post it for you, you just do the final interviews, just bring these guys and say, "Okay, you won number one, number two, number three, and you give them the awards. >> Awesome, I love this conversation, even though we're kind of riffing, having fun. But the point of it is-- >> It's a new start-up let's do an ICO. >> Let's do an ICO, we can (mumbles) with that. No, but this is really fundamental for the entrepreneurs at the tech culture, we're talking about basically dev ops. >> Yes. >> Using cloud computing, we can have unlimited-- >> You can spin it up in a few days. >> You can apply automation, AI, that's your point, trust the software. >> Yes. If you're doing it for the community, they will recognize it and adopt you very quickly. >> They'll apply a human curation layer on top of it. >> With full transparency, you've got to show that you're doing everything for the community, like what we're trying to do, right? We're showing, when we tell you you're going to earn 5.1%, you can dig in and see who's getting paid and why they're getting this much money, what's the allocation, every token that's being given to anyone, all the math behind it is fully transparent, right? >> Final question-- >> Try to ask the bank for that. See what they're saying. >> Transparency? Go find another bank. Final question, your summary of the show. What's your take, was it good? Good vibes? What was the content agenda? What was the most exciting thing you saw, what's your summary of Consensus 2018? >> So, Consensus, when they organized it, they were bragging that 4,000 people are going to show up, and that's why they moved to the Hilton from the Marriott. And then 8,000 people show up, the lines were outside the whole hotel, so it proves that the demand is there. Everybody wants to come and learn about it, they want to know why this is so hot, why this revolution is here to stay, so what I'm taking out of the show is that this innovation is just in its infancy and there's a lot of people who are still yet to join. And the best ideas, the winners, have not yet been decided. So, watch out for all those new ideas that we haven't heard about yet. >> And it's accelerated from other trends. >> Yes, it definitely accelerated. >> Alex Mashinsky, CEO of Celsius, former entrepreneur of multiple startups. See, he knows the old way, he sees the new way, he's been a successful entrepreneur, seasoned community member. Thanks for coming on, we appreciate it. >> Thanks for having us. I appreciate it. >> I'm John Furrier here with theCUBE on the ground out in the open, in the community, CUBE coverage here, Blockchain Week 2018 New York. Thanks for watching. (electronic-based music)