>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering VMworld 2018. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to VMworld day three, continuing coverage for theCUBE, I'm Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante sporting this fantastic salmon tie, and what you can't see is the matching salmon pants. Dave- >> There ya go. I still have my voice. (laughs) >> The outfit game is on point, Dave. >> Thank you. >> So we've been here, this is our third day, this is a huge event, 25,000 or so people here, lots of great announcements. We're excited to welcome to theCUBE for the first time Mimi Spier the Vice President of the Internet of Things Business at Vmware, Mimi, it's great to have you! >> Thank you! I'm so happy to be here. >> Thanks for comin' on. >> Yeah, it's great. >> So, three action packed days, lot's of announcements, lots of momentum. You lead a team at VMware that launched the VMware IoT business about a year and a half ago, including, launching the product, the GTM strategy, the partner in marketing strategy. In the last year and a half, talk to us about the evolution of VMware IoT, the business challenges that you're helping customers to solve. >> Absolutely, so, this has been a journey for almost a couple years now, and, VMware saw a need to really start to look at what we'll call the edge or IoT use cases. Our customers started coming to us saying "Wait a minute, this is coming, I know my business units are starting to invest in IoT, I have no control over it, I have no exposure to it, what should I do?" And, we are really committed to being an infrastructure company, we knew that when started this journey, and we said "We really want to focus on infrastructure, but we want to help our customers go to the edge, really start to embrace this new opportunity in the industry, to be able to take advantage of this data." We call it, the data is the gold, how do you actually be able to take advantage of it? So, we're really excited, we just started the journey and now we've really this VMworld is where the momentum is starting to take off. >> How do you look at that opportunity? Because it's complicated, especially for a bunch of IT people, right? And now you're entering this world of operations technology. But how do you sort of look at the landscape of the market? >> I'm really glad you asked that, 'cause that's one of my favorite topics, so. I want our customers to think about, first of all, what are the mission critical objectives of their business? They shouldn't do IoT just to do IoT, they need to do what's right for their business; but I also think it's important that they look beyond that. So, if you look at some of the macro trends happening in the world today, there will need to be 70% more food that's created, and there's only 5% more land that it can be built on. There's going to be 300 million connected cars out on the roads There was a statistic that there will be two thirds of energy is consumed by cities, yet we still have very old ways of doing it, but it's in this very consolidated area; why would we not take advantage of that? So I think industries, whether you're in energy or you're in smart cities or you're in automotive, you have to really think about where is your industry going? And even IT people need to think about this, I think, and I'll explain why in a minute but, how can I actually create an industry and a company that can sustain in this future world, and also contribute to the future of what our world's going to be like. So I think, and the technology, and the way we set this up, and the architecture, is really the foundation to do that. So, that's where VMware comes in. >> Okay. And talk a little bit more about VMware's specific strategy as it relates to IoT. I mean I was at the big Dell announcement last fall. Okay, so you've got Dell sort of with existing relationships actually with a lot of the industrial giants. But now enter VMware, what's your strategy? >> So, first I want to say that Dell and VMware have come together into one big business unit to solve IoT and edge. And the beauty of that is we believe that our customers can really have a more simplistic way of achieving this infrastructure foundation, if we can offer these end-to-end solutions together; so I'll talk about how the Dell piece fits into the VMware strategy. But what VMware's trying to do is drastically simplify the complexity of the infrastructure and the foundation you'll need for IoT. So we want to extend what we're doing in the cloud and the multi-cloud, because we fundamentally believe most of our customers are actually in multiple clouds, private, public, multiple public, and actually be able to extend that down to whatever edge they need as well. Because of the amount of data that will be generated at the edge, there's going to be, I don't know, analysts say 50 to 75% of data will be generated at the edges of our business by 2020. And think about it, all of our applications today are in the cloud, so there must be edge computing that is local to be able to process that data. And there also needs to be, there's this heterogeneous set of devices that will need to be managed, monitored, secure, and collect that data; so this requires, it's complex, so we want to drastically simplify that and that's the overarching part of our strategy. But we also want to allow our customers to do it in a way that's secure, that's scalable, and that's manageable over time, so. >> So does that mean putting some, first of all the Dell partnership is interesting, and Alan Cohen one of our guest analysts this week said "Partnerships used to be like tennis, one-on-one, and now partnerships are like soccer." There's just so many parts of the ecosystem so that's sort of one observation, but. Are you sort of bringing VMware to the edge? Is that? >> We are, so we're bringing VMware to the edge, we announced a new portfolio of solutions called VMware Edge it will take advantage of the ability to do the compute edge which is the processing at the edge, and really extending our hyper-converge technology as a service, like we're doing for VMC on AWS, to the edge; and it includes our device edge, and there's a lot of things that is happening on the device edge, which is like gateways and things, that we want to help provide a more software-defined approach, as well as ensure that those can be managed, monitored, secure, across all the diverse set of devices. Now, you can't do that alone. The ecosystem you mentioned, I've never seen any in my history of my career the amount of collaboration that's going on across the ecosystem, because IoT is so hard; so, you really do need to collaborate. And we are collaborating with the IoT platform providers, the gateway and the thing providers, the hardware providers, the system integrators; it requires that to be successful. But what we want to do with Dell is do it in a way that we offer these end-to-end solutions so that it's just more simple, you can go to one place to consume it, to ensure that it gets deployed, and to actually support that solution, but offering it from a multitude of our partners, typically so. >> So let's dig into to simplicity because we hear that, Mimi, all the time, as you do too. Customers want choice, they want simplicity, right Dave? They want flexibility. >> They want it all! >> They want it all! We all want it all. But how is the VMware edge computing strategy, the technology level, actually facilitating simplicity, in what is inherently a complex world of multiple devices, multiple clouds, et cetera? Talk to us about the technology and the actual enablers of that simple approach they need. >> I'm so glad you asked me that! So, we've been saying very consistently, that we want to offer consistent infrastructure, consistent operations, but we want to give you the choice of your application platform or development platform. We're going to do the exact same thing at the edge. So everything that VMware customers experience in their private cloud, their SDDC solution, private cloud, public cloud, we are now going to offer as a service at the edge same infrastructure, same operational model as the HyperCloud model, but at the edge; with the choice of the application development tools that they would like, because, they might want Greengrass from Amazon, they might want the Azure, they might IoT Watson, whatever they want at the edge we want to be able to support that on our infrastructure, but still maintaining that simplicity of a consistent infrastructure no matter where you choose to run your applications. We want to just eliminate the even thought process, run your applications anywhere, on a consistent infrastructure, with the same management, the same operations, and move 'em around as much as you like. >> So is there an abstraction layer almost that this can enable so that that management of all of these different applications and development platforms can be really done seamlessly? >> Yeah, so Project Dimension we announced a tech preview, and, well we'll be launching it later this year, and it will have a management layer that allows you to move your infrastructure and be able to actually, actually it's a VMware managed solution, so we will do it for you, it's even more simple; but be able to choose where you want to run that appliance as a service or infrastructure, whether it be the public cloud, the private cloud or the data center, and the edge. So that is the new what you call extraction, it's almost a new dimension, no pun intended. >> Hence the name. >> Hence the name, of, across all of your different clouds, or edge. >> So the notes I had on dimension, a hybrid cloud control plane, and the end-to-end VMware stack, on-prem cloud at the edge. And I think I heard Lenovo, VMware, and Dell are the initial sort of platform providers. >> That's right, Lenovo, Dell is the hardware. >> And that, what's the consumption model, is that an as a service consumption model? >> So we'll start with as a service, and what that means is VMware will actually manage your hardware, your infrastructure, and your software, we will do it for you. Obviously with the collaboration of when to do it and if everything, because this could be at the edge running mission critical applications. We want to make sure the OT, it's really an opportunity for OT and IT to collaborate and ensure that it's meeting the OT needs as well. >> So it's bringing a cloud-like consumption model to the edge, which of course is huge for VMware, I think probably 10% of your business today is SaaS-based, and the trend is clear; and the trend is your friend as they say, but, it's not easy to necessarily get there. So that's exciting I think that you're delivering as a service. >> I think we got really lucky. We ended up with this hybrid cloud strategy, it was the right thing to do, it's absolutely where the market's gone, and we're now almost at a multi-cloud strategy. And that puts us at the perfect position because we have set up our customers to be flexible and be able to choose whatever cloud or private they want in a cloud, we are very easily able to extend that to the edge, so it puts us in a very good position. >> Talking about the ecosystem again, I mean IoT it's every industry, every sector, every size of company, and I want you to discuss an ISV piece of this it's a very complex situation. >> I would love to talk with ISVs. >> But there's so many ISVs it makes your eyes bleed when you look at the list of ISVs, hard to figure out, okay who's real, who's not, and who to partner with; how are you guys sorting all that out? >> Okay. So, we are the infrastructure, what is beautiful about that is we are not competing with ISVs at all, so they all want to work with us. And the ISVs in the IoT world consist of not only specific application providers, but also IoT platform providers. So it's the SAPs of the world, it's Microsoft, it's also the Bosch, the GE, everybody that wants to do something with that data and build applications it. Most of those are doing industry-specific things, so what we're going to do is take Project Dimension and we're going to offer appliances as a service for industry-specific use cases, and sometimes they're horizontal like building management, but we're going to pick the best ones that we think have the right solution that can scale to the level our customers need in a secure way, and doing the most rich experience with our data. In fact we have 15 different partners in our zone right now really showing what they can do across six different industries, and that's what we're going to do with them. We're also, with Pulse, so I need to talk a little bit about Pulse because it's my baby, we announced Pulse IoT Center 2.0. And what that is, is it's the ability to manage, monitor, and secure things, or IoT gateways. So, one example of that is surveillance, we are partnering with camera companies that also offer analytic applications for visualization and surveillance, and we offering an end-to-end solution. In fact we announced the Dell Technologies surveillance solution partnering with companies like Access Communications owned by Cannon, Pulse runs on the camera to ensure that that camera is working properly, hasn't been hacked into, can get patched, can get isolated, God forbid something happens; and we're doing the same thing across many of the device and thing providers as well, which really falls into that. >> Let's talk about- Sorry Mimi, let's talk about an actual customer. Where do they start in this conversation? Because as you were saying in the beginning, the world is going IoT, there's this proliferation of devices, companies are moving in this direction because they have no choice. We were talking with a school district yesterday and the proliferation of BYOD, all of the things. So where does the conversation start with a customer about VMware edge? Does it start with the business level leadership who need to be able to get a handle on this, and identify new revenue streams, new business models? Does it start with the technology folks who have to have the infrastructure to support it? What is that sort of, I'm a customer, maybe a hospital or what not, where do I start? >> Great question. So, it starts, it depends is the answer, it can start either way, even if it starts on the infrastructure side. What we always tell IT is that you really need to have a reason to do this. You need to work with your business, you need to prioritize, you need to understand the mission critical objectives of your business, the outcome you're trying to achieve; and then let's work together on a use case, and we can help solve it with your business. So, whether we go through IT and we really educate them on the importance of this digital foundation at the edge, and then we work with one of their businesses, maybe in security and surveillance, or maybe it's with a bank, the ATM group; actually there is a group that runs the ATMs and we're working with that group. It might be the bank of the future retail bank, and they're all different organizations with many different use cases, we'll work with all of them. The nice thing about starting with IT is IT understands the challenge that they're faced with, and they really want to have the impact that they've had on the IT organization now on the OT, OT's very siloed. So, anyway, it starts there, but, with our partners, and the beauty about working with partners like ISVs, it will start on the OT side, and it will start with a use case; and then they'll go to the IT side and say "Hey, what about VMware to solve this?" And the IT will say are you serious? That's a dream. So, it absolutely is both, but it has to have a business outcome. >> Mimi, how about the data model? I mean, we know from talking to IT people they understand data, they've lived data their whole lives. A lot of the operations side of the business is analog today, and it's becoming digital. What's the conversation like around data? >> So, okay, so my whole background is data, I started business intelligence and then analytics, and then big data, now IoT. The purpose of the data, so first of all it depends on the use case, so the one thing we like to educate our anyone we're talking to is that you are going to need deep learning, and you're going to need real-time analytics. And each use case will be unique, and depending on the use case, you will need a slightly different architecture. So we'll help support this foundation based on the data, it's always about the data, or actually even more importantly the insights you're trying to get from the data. Once you know your use case, then you can determine where am I getting this data? Although sometimes you already know. And what's the right analytic process? Am I doing machine learning, am I doing AI, am I doing just predictive analytics, do I want to do something quickly at the edge to determine something in real-time and then send it back to make that process smarter, that's actually what I think will ultimately happen, it will be a decision making loop that goes from the edge to the cloud and back. But that's the data conversation we have, and I could talk all day, just in that topic. (laughs) >> And I mean I know we're tight on time but, how prominent is the discussion around data ownership? I mean, does the factory own the data? Does the device manufacturer own the data? I mean yes and yes? I don't know. >> I mean, there is controversy there, but typically, I know the device manufacturers want to own the data, and often times they have access to that data. Every industry's slightly different, but at the end of the day, the customer should own the data, I mean they should at least have access to that data. And we will always say in our situation the customer, the data is yours. And we will work with the both of those organizations 'cause those will be our constituents to a use case, and we will do what's right for that use case, and hopefully everybody wins. It really does depend. If it's car manufacturer, they have to own the data, because they have to make sure that car's safe and secure, but there might need to be level of access that the consumers get as well, so. >> Mimi, thanks so much for stopping by. I can tell by your energy and your genuine passion for this, we're going to hear a lot more, Dave, about what VMware edge is doing and helping customers embrace the superpowers that Pat Gelsinger was talking about on Monday. Great to have you on the show, Mimi. >> Thank you for having me, have a great day. >> Thank you, for Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watch theCUBE, continuing coverage of VMworld 2018, this is our third day, stick around, we'll be right back with our next guest. (bubbly music)

>>Fly from Houston, Texas. It's the cube covering Grace Hopper celebration of women in computing. >>Welcome back to the cubes coverage of the Grace Hopper conference here in Houston, Texas. I am your host, Rebecca Knight. We have a great panel today. Uh, three distinguished guests, Jeanette Epps, an aerospace astronaut. Uh, an engineer at NASA, Mimi Valdez, a executive producer on the film, hidden figures and Christina DOJ who is a, I want to call her a rocket scientist. She will not let me, she's an electrical engineer at, at, at NASA. Thank you so much for joining me. Hey Jeanette. I want to start with you. Um, recently president Obama has said we're gonna put men on Mars, men and women, men and women on Mars. How realistic is that? I mean, it's exciting for the, for the rest of us, non astronauts to hear this is, is it realistic? >>It is realistic. And one of the things I love that he, he did that was that it gives a national initiative to go back to Mars. And so that means that people will get more involved in STEM careers, especially girls will get more involved. And it's kinda like, you know what JFK did back in the 60s to give us that push a goal, an end goal to do something. Great. >>And do you think that, you know, he said by 2030, it's not very long from now. I mean, is it going to happen? I mean, what's, >>well right now a witness is working on is we have the NASA Orion program and it's a, uh, a power light capsule that will be launched off of one of the largest rockets bigger than the Saturn five or as big. And so that the mission of NASA, Orion is to take us beyond low earth orbit and go deeper into space. So we're looking at NASA, Orion, potentially maybe being the ship that will go to Mars and you know, maybe we have more work to do, but all of getting the nation onboard with going to Mars will inspire a new generation to do great things that will help us to get to Mars. Even >>Obama has said he loves science as a kid. That was his favorite subject in school. And do you think that it will have this galvanizing effect of, as you said, making sure more little boys and girls are studying STEM? >>Well, I've seen it already with some of the tweets and different things, questions that kids ask me nowadays. I think every kid has in their heart this goal to go to Mars now. And um, I can't go to a conference or anywhere without, uh, some young child asking about Mars and what, what are, how are we going to get there? When are we going to get there? And you know, I think one of my jobs is to inspire them to get involved in STEM and help us to get to Mars. There's a lot of technology that we need to develop and produce so that we can get astronauts to live longer away from the earth surface. We have the propulsion system that can get them there faster and bring them back home long. Will it take, well, it depends on the propulsion system that we developed. So there's a number of things that we're working on to make sure that what president Obama has said will get us to Mars in the 2030s if it's pushed out to a little later, that's fine. We're working on it and we're, we're going forward with them. >>Mimi, I want to talk to you now about the film hidden figures. Uh, we'll be out in some theaters and Christmas wide release in January. It is the story of black women mathematicians working in the 1960s at NASA. How did you find out about this story? Well, I give credits at Donna gelato, one of the producers on the film who optioned the book when it was a book proposal. So before the book was even written, she optioned this the story, and it's just this amazing story that the world doesn't even know about. We all know about John Glenn's mission. He came back a national hero. It was a moment in history that galvanized the world. You know, America winning the space race. But we don't know the story of all these brilliant mathematicians, all these women who actually will really responsible Katherine Johnson specifically who hand calculated those numbers for his cause. >>Everybody, I mean, I think this is such an amazing thing to do. And, and again, we just don't know her story. And as well as Dorothy Vaughn and Mary Jackson, I mean, so many women that worked at NASA that were just, um, they were hidden. You just don't know their stories. So, so the film tells their story, it tells their, um, it tells what they did, how they helped John Glenn. Did John Glenn appreciate that John Glenn actually would not go into space unless Katherine double checked the numbers. Like he wanted her to actually, you know, he, he, he trusted her because this is when the IBM computers were first coming into NASA. So they had started asserted use that and he was like, Hmm, I, I need Catherine to check the numbers before I go into say they were friends, professional colleagues. I mean he just knew who, you know, obviously she, she was really responsible and sort of that whole mission. >>And, and you know, for him it was just sort of like, eh, these computers thing, this was like a new thing at NASA. He's like, I need a human to make sure that these numbers are right. Right. Yeah. So we're excited about the film. Who's in it? Taraji P Henson plays captain Johnson. Octavia Spencer, please. I'm Dorothy Vaughan and Janell Monae. Um, she's a, uh, a musician. This is sort of her first really big role and she plays Mary Jackson. Kevin Costner is the head of the space station. Um, we have really great actors, but I think what was really important to everyone who participated in the film was everyone understood the importance of the story and wanting to make sure that we got it right. And also, you know, movies are supposed to be entertaining, but when they can be also inspirational and educate in some way, the fact that some young girls somewhere may see this movie and decide to pursue a career in math or science or any of the STEM careers is really gratifying to us because that's what we would love to accomplish. >>You know, Christina, you have been at NASA for nine years. Uh, tell me about your style, how you got, how you got to NASA in the first place. So I've always loved space since I was like a young child. I was in fifth grade when I told my parents that I wanted to work for NASA. So really since that point, like that was, you know, my dream. And so I, you know, pursued the math and science. Those were some of my favorite subjects. Um, luckily I had some supportive parents who really like saw that desire in me and kind of nurtured and encouraged me to, Hey, if that's what you want to do, then you go for it. We'll do whatever we can. Um, and then I came across some NASA opportunities in high school. Um, and one of the programs was the high school aerospace scholars program. >>And in that program I kinda got a glimpse into what it was like to be an engineer, to work at NASA. I got to speak with, you know, fight directors and um, flight controllers. And there's so many people who contribute to the space program. And that experience really solidified my desire to pursue STEM, STEM. Um, so I started to electrical engineering and then from there, um, you know, did the internship at NASA and I've enjoyed my career so far. It's been a, it's been a great experience. And so you work on the jet propulsion system of spaceships. Um, I work Lena. Um, I work on the power systems power systems. So you are, what do you do? So, um, as an electrical engineer on power systems, I work on the design of the power system testing. Um, basically everything on the spacecraft is going to need power. >>So I'm responsible for how I need to provide power, how much, um, when we talk about going to Mars, that's a, that's a long duration mission and power is something that, um, you have to budget for. So we need to advance that technology to support these missions that, um, our administration has said we want to go there. How are y'all going to accomplish this? So there's a lot of um, design hands on work and it's, you know, it's a challenge. But I mean, together as a team, we can, I believe that will, you know, meet that goal and be able to deliver a power system that will take us to Mars. So this is a question for rip for really all of you. You're an astronaut, you were working at NASA, you just made a movie to encourage young women to, to, to, to get into the STEM field. Why is it NASA recruiting here at, at, at Grace Hopper and, and should it be, do not, do you want to take this? >>Well, that's a good question. It's not that I'm mass and I don't, it's not that I don't think NASA has a desire to recruit here. I think there's recruiting times where people come out and do that. But I think I'm, one of the things that we do in the astronaut Corps, we try to go out and attend conferences like that and try to inspire students to be interested in NASA to understand what NASA is doing, to understand, you know, the shuttle retired. But we're still flying. In fact, when I fly to space and hopefully in 2018 I'll fly with the Russians. But in the meantime, NASA's building two shadows that would take astronauts to the international space station and NASA, Orion, that'll take us deeper into space. So we want to try to inspire with our stories and get people interested in science, technology, engineering, mathematics, and now even the arts, the arts play a big part of this. The arts play a big part of the well, yeah, I think I'm as a scientist and looking at patterns and things like that, there's a lot of um, people who, um, begin to work in the arts, even if it's building things with their hands and making, sculpting things, painting things. And so there's a lot of artwork that comes into play in science that is >>really refreshing, exciting, count, counterintuitive. I mean, what would you say are the ways we've talked about getting them, getting them interested through, through film. Um, talking about, uh, Obama making this, this grand announcement and Treme, what are some other ways that we can get the next generation into this field? Well, representation is obviously important. I think when people get to see images in the media of these different fields and all the possibilities, I mean every kid on this planet is obsessed with their phone, maybe not realizing like the importance of these STEM careers that are making these phones even possible or even exist. And I think the more that we can expose these careers and all these possibilities, I think it will just be just more beneficial just for humanity in general. I mean, as we know, nothing in this world can exist without math. >>Nothing. So the more that we can sort of encourage young people to see what an incredible career this is in all the possibilities that go into it, I just think we'll be better off as a nation and as a, you know, just globally as a world. Jeanette, I mean, do you have any thoughts about how, what you would advise someone? I mean you started at NASA nine years ago. So I mean, as an engineer I feel like, I mean I am making some contribution, but really the way I feel like I have more impact is through mentoring and you know, participating in those outreach type of activities for, uh, younger students like K through 12. And then also, um, you know, undergraduate like where they're really like trying to figure out what are the career options and STEM. And so that's how I feel I can have an impact there. >>And these movies help because there's a surge of like, like it's inspirational for young students to see this and be like, Oh, I never knew that that was an option. And so we get outreached to NASA, um, our request to, you know, interact with, uh, local schools and communities and kind of, um, you know, do all my lessons or just teaching with them, just talking about kind of like what the career is like. So, um, I mean I hoping that I can contribute in that way for younger, younger people. Janette are, you are an impressive astronaut, but you are also known as a black woman astronaut. Yeah. D do you do, do you bristle at that or do you embrace it? What, what do you, how, what's the responsibility? >>Oh, I totally embrace it. You know, I'm young ladies always ask me, did you have a problem being a black woman and engineering? And I always tell them that, um, I don't have a problem with being a black woman. And if other people do, then that's their problem. I totally embrace it because I'm, one of the things that I didn't realize was that, um, there's still a need to have positive role models and images of yourself. You know, growing up, my mom never taught my twin sister and I that you couldn't do something because you are a female or Brown. But there are a lot of young ladies that actually do experience that. And so having a positive roam out of it, show them that, Hey look, if I can do this, you can do this too. There's no reason you shouldn't be doing this right now yourself. >>So you are a role model. And how do you then also make sure that it's active role modeling and not just sort of standing on a pedestal of. >>One of the things I like to do is like Catherine Johnson and these great ladies that, you know, without them I, you know, I wouldn't be here is you have to do well and you have to perform well. You have to do the same work that your colleagues are doing and don't do less and don't accept less either. And when it comes to the hard work, put in the time, do the work, complete the tasks and make sure you're, you're representing yourself and your group well and you don't want to be accounted as well. You know, she's the one that we've got to help and we've got to do this, but you want to be a contributing member to every group that you're a part of and completing the tasks, doing the same work if not better. I like to say do better work, but you know, you want to be a part of the. >>Yeah. But that puts so much pressure too because it is, it's, it's be a contributor, but also don't mess up because you are under a microscope to some degree because those are, >>you know, messing up isn't, isn't. Um, failure is never, um, should never be. If it's unintentional, that's okay because you always learn from your mistakes and you have to forgive yourself and keep moving forward. If you stop right there because of a failure, um, you wouldn't go anywhere. We all fell. And it's how you respond to it. That matters. >>Yeah. Every failure is an opportunity to learn. And I think, um, you know, yeah. You can't be scared. I mean, the first and foremost is just doing a good job that, cause once, if you're just dedicated and focused on that, then I think great things can happen. And then failure is really a, a buzzword in Silicon Valley too. Right now. It's a fail fast. Um, and this idea, as you were talking about that it's your response to failure that makes a difference. Yeah. And NASA, I became familiar with this famous phrase of failing forward, meaning that yes, you're going to encounter problems, but if you are learning from the, if you're making improvements, you can design something better. So we call it failing forward. And that concept has, I've embraced that comset and it's, you know, I've encountered many failures. I mean, designing new hardware. It's not gonna, you know, work right off the box. And I'm kind of embracing that idea that it's a learning experience. As long as you don't give up as if you're applying what you learned, then that is not a failure. Christina, this is great. Christina DOJ, Mimi Valdez, Jeanette Epps. Thank you so much for joining us today. This has been such a having to be here. I'm not worthy. Thank you. This has been Rebecca Knight live coverage of the Grace Hopper conference here in Houston, Texas. We'll be back after this break.

>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is theCUBE conversation. >> Hey, welcome back everybody Jeff Frick here with the cube. This is a special week it's Grace Hopper week, and Grace Hopper is the best name in tech conferences. The celebration of women in computing, and we've been going there for years we're not there this year, but one of the themes that comes up over and over at Grace Hopper is women and girls need to see women in positions that they can envision themselves being in someday. That is a really important piece of the whole diversity conversation is can I see people that I can role model after and I just want to bring up something from a couple years back from 2016 when we were there, we were there with Mimi Valdez, Christina Deoja and Dr. Jeanette Epps, Dr. Jeanette Epps is the astronaut on the right. They were there talking about "The Hidden Figures" movie. If you remember it came out 2016, it was about Katherine Johnson and all the black women working at NASA. They got no credit for doing all the math that basically keep all the astronauts safe and they made a terrific movie about it. And Janet is going up on the very first Blue Origin Space Mission Next year. This was announced a couple of months ago, so again, phenomenal leadership, black lady astronaut, going to go into space and really provide a face for a lot of young girls that want to get into that and its clearly a great STEM opportunity. So we're excited to have four terrific women today that well also are the leaders that the younger women can look up to and follow their career. So we're excited to have them so we're just going to go around. We got four terrific guests, our first one is Annabel Chang, She is the Head of State Policy and Government Regulations at Waymo. Annabel great to see you, where are you coming in from today? >> from San Francisco >> Jeff: Awesome. Next up is Inamarie Johnson. She is the Chief People and Diversity Officer for Zendesk Inamarie, great to see you. Where are you calling in from today? >> Great to be here. I am calling in from Palos Verdes the state >> Jeff: awesome >> in Southern California. >> Jeff: Some of the benefits of a virtual sometimes we can, we couldn't do that without the power of the internet. And next up is Jennifer Cabalquinto she is the Chief Financial Officer of the Golden State Warriors. Jennifer, great to see you Where are you coming in from today? >> Well, I wish I was coming in from the Chase Center in San Francisco but I'm actually calling in from Santa Cruz California today. >> Jeff: Right, It's good to see you and you can surf a lot better down there. So that's probably not all bad. And finally to round out our panelists, Kate Hogan, she is the COO of North America for Accenture. Kate, great to see you as well. Where are you coming in from today? >> Well, it's good to see you too. I am coming in from the office actually in San Jose. >> Jeff: From the office in San Jose. All right, So let's get into it . You guys are all very senior, you've been doing this for a long time. We're in a kind of a crazy period of time in terms of diversity with all the kind of social unrest that's happening. So let's talk about some of your first your journeys and I want to start with you Annabel. You're a lawyer you got into lawyering. You did lawyering with Diane Feinstein, kind of some politics, and also the city of San Francisco. And then you made this move over to tech. Talk about that decision and what went into that decision and how did you get into tech? 'cause we know part of the problem with diversity is a pipeline problem. You came over from the law side of the house. >> Yes, and to be honest politics and the law are pretty homogenous. So when I made the move to tech, it was still a lot of the same, but what I knew is that I could be an attorney anywhere from Omaha Nebraska to Miami Florida. But what I couldn't do was work for a disruptive company, potentially a unicorn. And I seized that opportunity and (indistinct) Lyft early on before Ride Hailing and Ride Sharing was even a thing. So it was an exciting opportunity. And I joined right at the exact moment that made myself really meaningful in the organization. And I'm hoping that I'm doing the same thing right now at Waymo. >> Great, Inamarie you've come from one of my favorite stories I like to talk about from the old school Clorox great product management. I always like to joke that Silicon Valley needs a pipeline back to Cincinnati and Proctor and Gamble to get good product managers out here. You were in the classic, right? You were there, you were at Honeywell Plantronics, and then you jumped over to tech. Tell us a little bit about that move. Cause I'm sure selling Clorox is a lot different than selling the terrific service that you guys provide at Zendesk. I'm always happy when I see Zendesk in my customer service return email, I know I'm going to get taken care of. >> Oh wow, that's great. We love customers like you., so thank you for that. My journey is you're right from a fortune 50 sort of more portfolio type company into tech. And I think one of the reasons is because when tech is starting out and that's what Zendesk was a few five years back or so very much an early stage growth company, two things are top of mind, one, how do we become more global? And how do we make sure that we can go up market and attract enterprise grade customers? And so my experience having only been in those types of companies was very interesting for a startup. And what was interesting for me is I got to live in a world where there were great growth targets and numbers, things I had never seen. And the agility, the speed, the head plus heart really resonated with my background. So super glad to be in tech, but you're right. It's a little different than a consumer products. >> Right, and then Jennifer, you're in a completely different world, right? So you worked for the Golden State Warriors, which everybody knows is an NBA team, but I don't know that everyone knows really how progressive the Warriors are beyond just basketball in terms of the new Chase Center, all the different events that you guys put on it. And really the leadership there has decided we really want to be an entertainment company of which the Golden State Warrior basketball team has a very, very important piece, you've come from the entertainment industry. So that's probably how they found you, but you're in the financial role. You've always been in the financial role, not traditionally thought about as a lot of women in terms of a proportion of total people in that. So tell us a little bit about your experience being in finance, in entertainment, and then making this kind of hop over to, I guess Uber entertainment. I don't know even how you would classify the warriors. >> Sports entertainment, live entertainment. Yeah, it's interesting when the Warriors opportunity came up, I naturally said well no, I don't have any sports background. And it's something that we women tend to do, right? We self edit and we want to check every box before we think that we're qualified. And the reality is my background is in entertainment and the Warriors were looking to build their own venue, which has been a very large construction project. I was the CFO at Universal Studios Hollywood. And what do we do there? We build large attractions, which are just large construction projects and we're in the entertainment business. And so that sort of B to C was a natural sort of transition for me going from where I was with Universal Studios over to the Warriors. I think a finance career is such a great career for women. And I think we're finding more and more women entering it. It is one that you sort of understand your hills and valleys, you know when you're going to be busy and so you can kind of schedule around that. I think it's really... it provides that you have a seat at the table. And so I think it's a career choice that I think is becoming more and more available to women certainly more now than it was when I first started. >> Yeah, It's interesting cause I think a lot of people think of women naturally in human resources roles. My wife was a head of human resources back in the day, or a lot of marketing, but not necessarily on the finance side. And then Kate go over to you. You're one of the rare birds you've been at Accenture  for over 20 years. So you must like airplanes and travel to stay there that long. But doing a little homework for this, I saw a really interesting piece of you talking about your boss challenging you to ask for more work, to ask for a new opportunity. And I thought that was really insightful that you, you picked up on that like Oh, I guess it's incumbent on me to ask for more, not necessarily wait for that to be given to me, it sounds like a really seminal moment in your career. >> It was important but before I tell you that story, because it was an important moment of my career and probably something that a lot of the women here on the panel here can relate to as well. You mentioned airplanes and it made me think of my dad. My father was in the air force and I remember him telling stories when I was little about his career change from the air force into a career in telecommunications. So technology for me growing up Jeff was, it was kind of part of the dinner table. I mean it was just a conversation that was constantly ongoing in our house. And I also, as a young girl, I loved playing video games. We had a Tandy computer down in the basement and I remember spending too many hours playing video games down there. And so for me my history and my really at a young age, my experience and curiosity around tech was there. And so maybe that's, what's fueling my inspiration to stay at Accenture for as long as I have. And you're right It's been two decades, which feels tremendous, but I've had the chance to work across a bunch of different industries, but you're right. I mean, during that time and I relate with what Jennifer said in terms of self editing, right? Women do this and I'm no exception, I did this. And I do remember I'm a mentor and a sponsor of mine who called me up when I'm kind of I was at a pivotal moment in my career and he said you know Kate, I've been waiting for you to call me and tell me you want this job. And I never even thought about it. I mean I just never thought that I'd be a candidate for the job and let alone somebody waiting for me to kind of make the phone call. I haven't made that mistake again, (laughing) but I like to believe I learned from it, but it was an important lesson. >> It's such a great lesson and women are often accused of being a little bit too passive and not necessarily looking out for in salary negotiations or looking for that promotion or kind of stepping up to take the crappy job because that's another thing we hear over and over from successful people is that some point in their career, they took that job that nobody else wanted. They took that challenge that really enabled them to take a different path and really a different Ascension. And I'm just curious if there's any stories on that or in terms of a leader or a mentor, whether it was in the career, somebody that you either knew or didn't know that was someone that you got kind of strength from kind of climbing through your own, kind of career progression. Will go to you first Annabel. >> I actually would love to talk about the salary negotiations piece because I have a group of friends about that we've been to meeting together once a month for the last six years now. And one of the things that we committed to being very transparent with each other about was salary negotiations and signing bonuses and all of the hard topics that you kind of don't want to talk about as a manager and the women that I'm in this group with span all types of different industries. And I've learned so much from them, from my different job transitions about understanding the signing bonus, understanding equity, which is totally foreign to me coming from law and politics. And that was one of the most impactful tools that I've ever had was a group of people that I could be open with talking about salary negotiations and talking about how to really manage equity. Those are totally foreign to me up until this group of women really connected me to these topics and gave me some of that expertise. So that is something I strongly encourage is that if you haven't openly talked about salary negotiations before you should begin to do so. >> It begs the question, how was the sensitivity between the person that was making a lot of money and the person that wasn't? And how did you kind of work through that as a group for the greater good of everyone? >> Yeah, I think what's really eye opening is that for example, We had friends who were friends who were on tech, we had friends who were actually the entrepreneurs starting their own businesses or law firm, associates, law firm partners, people in PR, so we understood that there was going to be differences within industry and frankly in scale, but it was understanding even the tools, whether I think the most interesting one would be signing bonus, right? Because up until a few years ago, recruiters could ask you what you made and how do you avoid that question? How do you anchor yourself to a lower salary range or avoid that happening? I didn't know this, I didn't know how to do that. And a couple of women that had been in more senior negotiations shared ways to make sure that I was pinning myself to a higher salary range that I wanted to be in. >> That's great. That's a great story and really important to like say pin. it's a lot of logistical details, right? You just need to learn the techniques like any other skill. Inamarie, I wonder if you've got a story to share here. >> Sure. I just want to say, I love the example that you just gave because it's something I'm super passionate about, which is transparency and trust. Then I think that we're building that every day into all of our people processes. So sure, talk about sign on bonuses, talk about pay parody because that is the landscape. But a quick story for me, I would say is all about stepping into uncertainty. And when I coach younger professionals of course women, I often talk about, don't be afraid to step into the role where all of the answers are not vetted down because at the end of the day, you can influence what those answers are. I still remember when Honeywell asked me to leave the comfort of California and to come to the East coast to New Jersey and bring my family. And I was doing well in my career. I didn't feel like I needed to do that, but I was willing after some coaching to step into that uncertainty. And it was one of the best pivotal moment in my career. I didn't always know who I was going to work with. I didn't know the challenges and scope I would take on, but those were some of the biggest learning experiences and opportunities and it made me a better executive. So that's always my coaching, like go where the answers aren't quite vetted down because you can influence that as a leader. >> That's great, I mean, Beth Comstock former vice chair at GE, one of her keynotes I saw had a great line, get comfortable with being uncomfortable. And I think that its a really good kind of message, especially in the time we're living in with accelerated change. But I'm curious, Inamarie was the person that got you to take that commitment. Would you consider that a sponsor, a mentor, was it a boss? Was it maybe somebody not at work, your spouse or a friend that said go for it. What kind of pushed you over the edge to take that? >> It's a great question. It was actually the boss I was going to work for. He was the CHRO, and he said something that was so important to me that I've often said it to others. And he said trust me, he's like I know you don't have all the answers, I know we don't have this role all figured out, I know you're going to move your family, but if you trust me, there is a ton of learning on the other side of this. And sometimes that's the best thing a boss can do is say we will go on this journey together. I will help you figure it out. So it was a boss, but I think it was that trust and that willingness for him to stand and go alongside of me that made me pick up my family and be willing to move across the country. And we stayed five years and really, I am not the same executive because of that experience. >> Right, that's a great story, Jennifer, I want to go to you, you work for two owners that are so progressive and I remember when Joe Lacob came on the floor a few years back and was booed aggressively coming into a franchise that hadn't seen success in a very long time, making really aggressive moves in terms of personnel, both at the coaches and the players level, the GM level. But he had a vision and he stuck to it. And the net net was tremendous success. I wonder if you can share any of the stories, for you coming into that organization and being able to feel kind of that level of potential success and really kind of the vision and also really a focus on execution to make the vision real cause vision without execution doesn't really mean much. If you could share some stories of working for somebody like Joe Lacob, who's so visionary but also executes so very, very effectively. >> Yeah, Joe is, well I have the honor of working for Joe, for Rick Welts to who's our president. Who's living legend with the NBA with Peter Guber. Our leadership at the Warriors are truly visionary and they set audacious targets. And I would say from a story the most recent is, right now what we're living through today. And I will say Joe will not accept that we are not having games with fans. I agree he is so committed to trying to solve for this and he has really put the organization sort of on his back cause we're all like well, what do we do? And he has just refused to settle and is looking down every path as to how do we ensure the safety of our fans, the safety of our players, but how do we get back to live entertainment? And this is like a daily mantra and now the entire organization is so focused on this and it is because of his vision. And I think you need leaders like that who can set audacious goals, who can think beyond what's happening today and really energize the entire organization. And that's really what he's done. And when I talked to my peers and other teams in there they're talking about trying to close out their season or do these things. And they're like well, we're talking about, how do we open the building? And we're going to have fans, we're going to do this. And they look at me and they're like, what are you talking about? And I said, well we are so fortunate. We have leadership that just is not going to settle. Like they are just always looking to get out of whatever it is that's happening and fix it. So Joe is so committed His background, he's an epidemiologist major I think. Can you imagine how unique a background that is and how timely. And so his knowledge of just around the pandemic and how the virus is spread. And I mean it's phenomenal to watch him work and leverage sort of his business acumen, his science acumen and really think through how do we solve this. Its amazing. >> The other thing thing that you had said before is that you basically intentionally told people that they need to rethink their jobs, right? You didn't necessarily want to give them permission to get you told them we need to rethink their jobs. And it's a really interesting approach when the main business is just not happening, right? There's just no people coming through the door and paying for tickets and buying beers and hotdogs. It's a really interesting talk. And I'm curious, kind of what was the reception from the people like hey, you're the boss, you just figure it out or were they like hey, this is terrific that he pressed me to come up with some good ideas. >> Yeah, I think when all of this happened, we were resolved to make sure that our workforce is safe and that they had the tools that they needed to get through their day. But then we really challenged them with re imagining what the next normal is. Because when we come out of this, we want to be ahead of everybody else. And that comes again from the vision that Joe set, that we're going to use this time to make ourselves better internally because we have the time. I mean, we had been racing towards opening Chase Center and not having time to pause. Now let's use this time to really rethink how we're doing business. What can we do better? And I think it's really reinvigorated teams to really think and innovate in their own areas because you can innovate anything, right?. We're innovating how you pay payables, we're all innovating, we're rethinking the fan experience and queuing and lines and all of these things because now we have the time that it's really something that top down we want to come out of this stronger. >> Right, that's great. Kate I'll go to you, Julie Sweet, I'm a big fan of Julie Sweet. we went to the same school so go go Claremont. But she's been super aggressive lately on a lot of these things, there was a get to... I think it's called Getting to 50 50 by 25 initiative, a formal initiative with very specific goals and objectives. And then there was a recent thing in terms of doing some stuff in New York with retraining. And then as you said, military being close to your heart, a real specific military recruiting process, that's formal and in place. And when you see that type of leadership and formal programs put in place not just words, really encouraging, really inspirational, and that's how you actually get stuff done as you get even the consulting businesses, if you can't measure it, you can't improve it. >> Yeah Jeff, you're exactly right. And as Jennifer was talking, Julie is exactly who I was thinking about in my mind as well, because I think it takes strong leadership and courage to set bold bold goals, right? And you talked about a few of those bold goals and Julie has certainly been at the forefront of that. One of the goals we set in 2018 actually was as you said to achieve essentially a gender balance workforce. So 50% men, 50% women by 2025, I mean, that's ambitious for any company, but for us at the time we were 400,000 people. They were 500, 6,000 globally. So when you set a goal like that, it's a bold goal and it's a bold vision. And we have over 40% today, We're well on our path to get to 50%, I think by 2025. And I was really proud to share that goal in front of a group of 200 clients the day that it came out, it's a proud moment. And I think it takes leaders like Julie and many others by the way that are also setting bold goals, not just in my company to turn the dial here on gender equality in the workforce, but it's not just about gender equality. You mentioned something I think it's probably at as, or more important right now. And that's the fact that at least our leadership has taken a Stand, a pretty bold stand against social injustice and racism, >> Right which is... >> And so through that we've made some very transparent goals in North America in terms of the recruitment and retention of our black African American, Hispanic American, Latinex communities. We've set a goal to increase those populations in our workforce by 60% by 2025. And we're requiring mandatory training for all of our people to be able to identify and speak up against racism. Again, it takes courage and it takes a voice. And I think it takes setting bold goals to make a change and these are changes we're committed to. >> Right, that's terrific. I mean, we started the conversation with Grace Hopper, they put out an index for companies that don't have their own kind of internal measure to do surveys again so you can get kind of longitudinal studies over time and see how you're improving Inamarie, I want to go to you on the social justice thing. I mean, you've talked a lot about values and culture. It's a huge part of what you say. And I think that the quote that you use, if I can steal it is " no culture eats strategy for breakfast" and with the social injustice. I mean, you came out with special values just about what Zendesk is doing on social injustice. And I thought I was actually looking up just your regular core mission and value statement. And this is what came up on my Google search. So I wanted to A, you published this in a blog in June, taking a really proactive stand. And I think you mentioned something before that, but then you're kind of stuck in this role as a mind reader. I wonder if you can share a little bit of your thoughts of taking a proactive stand and what Zendesk is doing both you personally, as well as a company in supporting this. And then what did you say as a binder Cause I think these are difficult kind of uncharted waters on one hand, on the other hand, a lot of people say, hello, this has been going on forever. You guys are just now seeing cellphone footage of madness. >> Yeah Wow, there's a lot in there. Let me go to the mind reader comments, cause people are probably like, what is that about? My point was last December, November timing. I've been the Chief People Officer for about two years And I decided that it really was time with support from my CEO that Zendesk have a Chief Diversity Officer sitting in at the top of the company, really putting a face to a lot of the efforts we were doing. And so the mind reader part comes in little did I know how important that stance would become, in the may June Timing? So I joked that, it almost felt like I could have been a mind reader, but as to what have we done, a couple of things I would call out that I think are really aligned with who we are as a company because our culture is highly threaded with the concept of empathy it's been there from our beginning. We have always tried to be a company that walks in the shoes of our customers. So in may with the death of George Floyd and the world kind of snapping and all of the racial injustice, what we said is we wanted to not stay silent. And so most of my postings and points of view were that as a company, we would take a stand both internally and externally and we would also partner with other companies and organizations that are doing the big work. And I think that is the humble part of it, we can't do it all at Zendesk, we can't write all the wrongs, but we can be in partnership and service with other organizations. So we used funding and we supported those organizations and partnerships. The other thing that I would say we did that was super important along that empathy is that we posted space for our employees to come together and talk about the hurt and the pain and the experiences that were going on during those times and we called those empathy circles. And what I loved is initially, it was through our mosaic community, which is what we call our Brown and black and persons of color employee resource group. But it grew into something bigger. We ended up doing five of these empathy circles around the globe and as leadership, what we were there to do is to listen and stand as an ally and support. And the stories were life changing. And the stories really talked about a number of injustice and racism aspects that are happening around the world. And so we are committed to that journey, we will continue to support our employees, we will continue to partner and we're doing a number of the things that have been mentioned. But those empathy circles, I think were definitely a turning point for us as an organization. >> That's great, and people need it right? They need a place to talk and they also need a place to listen if it's not their experience and to be empathetic, if you just have no data or no knowledge of something, you need to be educated So that is phenomenal. I want to go to you Jennifer. Cause obviously the NBA has been very, very progressive on this topic both as a league, and then of course the Warriors. We were joking before. I mean, I don't think Steph Curry has ever had a verbal misstep in the history of his time in the NBA, the guy so eloquent and so well-spoken, but I wonder if you can share kind of inside the inner circle in terms of the conversations, that the NBA enabled right. For everything from the jerseys and going out on marches and then also from the team level, how did that kind of come down and what's of the perception inside the building? >> Sure, obviously I'm so proud to be part of a league that is as progressive and has given voice and loud, all the teams, all the athletes to express how they feel, The Warriors have always been committed to creating a diverse and equitable workplace and being part of a diverse and equitable community. I mean that's something that we've always said, but I think the situation really allowed us, over the summer to come up with a real formal response, aligning ourselves with the Black Lives Matter movement in a really meaningful way, but also in a way that allows us to iterate because as you say, it's evolving and we're learning. So we created or discussed four pillars that we wanted to work around. And that was really around wallet, heart, beat, and then tongue or voice. And Wallet is really around putting our money where our mouth is, right? And supporting organizations and groups that aligned with the values that we were trying to move forward. Heart is around engaging our employees and our fan base really, right? And so during this time we actually launched our employee resource groups for the first time and really excited and energized about what that's doing for our workforce. This is about promoting real action, civic engagement, advocacy work in the community and what we've always been really focused in a community, but this really hones it around areas that we can all rally around, right? So registration and we're really focused on supporting the election day results in terms of like having our facilities open to all the electorate. So we're going to have our San Francisco arena be a ballot drop off, our Oakland facilities is a polling site, Santa Cruz site is also a polling location, So really promoting sort of that civic engagement and causing people to really take action. heart is all around being inclusive and developing that culture that we think is really reflective of the community. And voice is really amplifying and celebrating one, the ideas, the (indistinct) want to put forth in the community, but really understanding everybody's culture and really just providing and using the platform really to provide a basis in which as our players, like Steph Curry and the rest want to share their own experiences. we have a platform that can't be matched by any pedigree, right? I mean, it's the Warriors. So I think really getting focused and rallying around these pillars, and then we can iterate and continue to grow as we define the things that we want to get involved in. >> That's terrific. So I have like pages and pages and pages of notes and could probably do this for hours and hours, but unfortunately we don't have that much time we have to wrap. So what I want to do is give you each of you the last word again as we know from this problem, right? It's not necessarily a pipeline problem, it's really a retention problem. We hear that all the time from Girls in Code and Girls in Tech. So what I'd like you to do just to wrap is just a couple of two or three sentences to a 25 year old, a young woman sitting across from you having coffee socially distanced about what you would tell her early in the career, not in college but kind of early on, what would the be the two or three sentences that you would share with that person across the table and Annabel, we'll start with you. >> Yeah, I will have to make a pitch for transportation. So in transportation only 15% of the workforce is made up of women. And so my advice would be that there are these fields, there are these opportunities where you can make a massive impact on the future of how people move or how they consume things or how they interact with the world around them. And my hope is that being at Waymo, with our self driving car technology, that we are going to change the world. And I am one of the initial people in this group to help make that happen. And one thing that I would add is women spend almost an hour a day, shuttling their kids around, and we will give you back that time one day with our self driving cars so that I'm a mom. And I know that that is going to be incredibly powerful on our daily lives. >> Jeff: That's great. Kate, I think I might know what you're already going to say, but well maybe you have something else you wanted to say too. >> I don't know, It'll be interesting. Like if I was sitting across the table from a 25 year old right now I would say a couple of things first I'd say look intentionally for a company that has an inclusive culture. Intentionally seek out the company that has an inclusive culture, because we know that companies that have inclusive cultures retain women in tech longer. And the companies that can build inclusive cultures will retain women in tech, double, double the amount that they are today in the next 10 years. That means we could put another 1.4 million women in tech and keep them in tech by 2030. So I'd really encourage them to look for that. I'd encouraged them to look for companies that have support network and reinforcements for their success, and to obviously find a Waymo car so that they can not have to worry where kids are on for an hour when you're parenting in a few years. >> Jeff: I love the intentional, it's such a great word. Inamarie, >> I'd like to imagine that I'm sitting across from a 25 year old woman of color. And what I would say is be authentically you and know that you belong in the organization that you are seeking and you were there because you have a unique perspective and a voice that needs to be heard. And don't try to be anything that you're not, be who you are and bring that voice and that perspective, because the company will be a better company, the management team will be a better management team, the workforce will be a better workforce when you belong, thrive and share that voice. >> I love that, I love that. That's why you're the Chief People Officer and not Human Resources Officer, cause people are not resources like steel and cars and this and that. All right, Jennifer, will go to you for the wrap. >> Oh my gosh, I can't follow that. But yes, I would say advocate for yourself and know your value. I think really understanding what you're worth and being willing to fight for that is critical. And I think it's something that women need to do more. >> Awesome, well again, I wish we could go all day, but I will let you get back to your very, very busy day jobs. Thank you for participating and sharing your insight. I think it's super helpful. And there and as we said at the beginning, there's no better example for young girls and young women than to see people like you in leadership roles and to hear your voices. So thank you for sharing. >> Thank you. >> All right. >> Thank you. >> Okay thank you. >> Thank you >> All right, so that was our diversity panel. I hope you enjoyed it, I sure did. I'm looking forward to chapter two. We'll get it scheduled as soon as we can. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

(exciting music) >> Announcer: From New York it's The Cube. Covering Blockchain Week. Now here's John Furrier. >> Hello everyone, welcome back this is The Cube. I'm John Furrier your co-host here. Host here in New York City for Consensus 2018 part of Blockchain Week, New York And we have Mimi Delam who is also the Co-Founder of the Crypto Rally Project. We just had your partner on welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you so very much for having me here. I'm really grateful. So yeah lovely to see you in New York. >> Great to see you and I love the project we just heard the details about the Crypto Rally. >> That's correct. >> So what's your take on it. I mean it's exciting, what's your role? >> I mean besides being super exciting for us it's a very new way of us making a huge impact and a difference in the Blockchain world for the people who are around here taking it to another level through the media. And the sponsorships. I mean my role personally is that I'm a co-founder from the very nice team of the girls. Gaile, Agne and and me and a couple more people involved. We are very happy to take it to another level. We want people to have just a way of life so we're trying to make it. >> I love the excitement of the project and you guys have a great team but I love the international perspective. You guys were in London. And you came from Lithuania. >> Exactly. >> And London so it's going to start in London or Lithuania? Where's the rally going to start? >> Okay I'll tell you all in the details. So we started, I mean me, myself I lived for many years in London and our founder Agne been living there for many years as well, we started our Crypto Rally in Lithuania in July it's going to take place and then afterwards we're taking it to Dubai. The rest of the world countries who are very happy to take the country, sorry, we're very happy to take the place in the Cryptos and we're going to travel all around the world with this inception. It's like Formula One it starts from one place right now it's all around the world. >> And what's the goal to have fun? Educate people on Crypto? What's the objective? >> Objective is of course to educate the people for them to be a part of the Blockchain and a part of the something which is coming up new. We want to make sure that people are aware of the new world because it's very clear the fourth industrial revolution is coming, 3.0 life is totally different we cannot be living the same way any more. And of course we want to have fun. >> All right now what's it like in Lithuania right now? What's the culture for the Blockchain? Are people, must be exciting, what's the vibe? >> I'll tell you Lithuania is extremely educated and very high tech and fast moving so for us it's very important to make the spirit, the small country but it's very easy to communicate and make everything ready. We are very well known in the blocked in world and we want to take it to another level. Of course as I mentioned we're going to the different countries, we're bringing the concept over there. We're very happy to host in a different places. So that's our aim, just to the spread the world. >> Maybe you can help us bring The Cube to Lithuania? We need some hosts. >> We definitely would love to do that. >> Well you're a natural host and great mission. I love what you're doing. What's it like here in New York for you? What's your observation? What are you seeing? Do you like the content? Have you met some cool people? What's it like explain for people who aren't here? >> Okay. >> What's it like? >> So Consensus itself is one of the most exclusive, unique opportunities to be a part in the event. There are so many fascinating people. Very educated and forward thinkers, like mind blowing ideas just around the places. There are so many people. It's impossible to even get a track of it. I'm very excited to be in New York because to be a part of this event makes a huge difference and I'm just fascinated about every single day what is going on it's a whole week of events, whole week of the communication and meetings non-stop. And then. >> Social too. >> It's very social and people are very happy to hear about Crypto Rally. >> What's your favorite thing here in the event? What's, what do you like the best? What was your number one thing? >> I mean I like to be interviewed by you. (laughs) >> Oh, ticket. >> Bingo there it is, The Cube number one. Thank you for saying that. >> Thank you so much. >> Besides The Cube interview? (laughs) What session? The people, parties, was there any special moment so far that you think is a highlight besides The Cube interview? >> I mean to be honest I really do enjoy the after parties where the people are becoming more open because the first part, bit of the day is a lot of business going on. >> Yep. >> And then afterwards you're going to the more personal relationships and then becoming a little bit of the friendly. And obviously this is exactly what we want to replicate in the Crypto Rally if that makes sense. >> Yeah. >> Because we want to have four days events to start from, meet the people hang out with them, have a good business interaction with them and educate each other. That's what I love about after, afternoon parties over here. >> Yeah it's good. >> Because you know about. >> You want to meet people's soul, get to know who they are. >> Exactly, exactly it's nice to have a good connection and connectivity. >> Yeah. >> People have a great energy here and it's like the brightest minds are meeting here. Which is beautiful. >> Love your energy Mimi, love to have you on. What URL can we get the information at for the Crypto Rally? >> All right so guys right now you have to go to www.Cryptorally2018.com, #CryptoRally2018 or @Cryptorally2018. Please join us and tweet or telegram and all around the social media we're happy to be. >> How can someone get involved? How do sponsors get involved? How do people get involved in the project? >> I mean you have to apply for it. We are taking as well, we are taking it through the application process because we want to build a very community based first Crypto Rally. The, I mean just go on the website, reach us out, we're very happy to talk with everybody right now we want to have a community. We want to bring it to another level and I mean. >> Of course. >> I mean that's how it works right? >> We support you. We'll be a media sponsor, a media supporter. Thank you for coming on. >> Thank you so very much. >> Nice to see you. >> For having me. >> You're very welcome >> Really thank you very much. >> You're welcome, great energy great voice, love the new talent coming into the New York scene, bringing the global perspective here. Really exciting ecosystem that's developing, great tight knit community here in The Cube. Mimi you're part of it, you guys are doing great work. Love your mission. I'm John Furrier on the ground here in the open. Here in New York City at the Hilton in Mid-Town Manhattan for Consensus 2018. More coverage after this break, thanks for watching. (exciting music)

(energetic music) >> Narrator: Live from San Juan, Puerto Rico, it's theCUBE, covering CoinAgenda. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE. >> Hello and welcome to our exclusive Puerto Rico coverage of CoinAgenda, I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. We're here covering all the action at Restart, we've got a ton of events, all the thoughts leaders, influencers, decision makers, you name it, in the industry, pioneers making it happen. My next guest is Toni Lane, who's the founder of CoinGraph. She's a true influencer with a lot of impact in this market. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you for having me. >> We're so glad to have you on. Like the little joke at the beginning about being an influencer, you actually are an influencer. You've done such great work in the industry, well regarded in the community. You have publication and you do a lot of great content. Thanks for coming on. >> Oh, for sure, yeah, thanks for having me. >> So being the influencer, what does that mean these days? Because we were just talking before the camera on, we came on camera, influence changes. You can't be an influencer all the time. You can be super or expert at something, but your expertise could change, you move to a new topic, learn something. And there's a lot of people in the digital marketing world saying I'm an influencer. It's kind of half baked, and really, I mean, it's not about the followers, your thoughts? >> Well, I mean, most of those followers are purchased. So there's a big difference between being an influencer and having actual influence. Because if you're, you know, if you have a million followers on Twitter, that's nice. How much engagement do you have? And that's actually what you look for, it's like when you look at someone's, whether it's, you know, social media, their digital presence, it's not about followers, it's all about engagement. You know, I don't even have that many, like I don't spend a lot of time doing that, at least I haven't so far, it's something I'm getting more into. But I have people that are really engaged, and so I look at people that have 15 million followers and I'm like, you have just as many likes on your things as I do, right. Because these people aren't real people. And it's less about, having influence in general is in many ways about having authenticity. And so influence is your ability to get something done. Being an influencer is your ability to hold someone's attention for a fragment of time. But being an influencer is not the same as having influence. >> And this community here, certainly, with decentralization here, you get the decentralized applications coming up blockchain, you got ICOs booming. It's all about the network effect, if you look at network effect, that is a new concept that ad technology does not know because you can't cookie a network connection. The only way to measure someone's true network is through malware today, and that's not good, no one does that. Well, they do, they're-- >> Toni: Unfortunately, yeah. >> But you can't you do it at business price, not sustainable. So the point is, it's not about how many followers you have. It could be that one follower, maybe 200 or 2,000, that opens up more. This is the network effect. This is what this community is all about, so I want to get your thoughts on this community's vibe. A lot of mission-driven, impact-oriented, merged with tech. So you have a fusion of technology, artistry, craftsmanship and mission-driven societal change in one melting pot. This is your wheelhouse. Share your thoughts on this. >> Well, so all of the different digital currencies have different value systems and they attract a different breed. And there are different incentives for each of these based on how the technology is designed, each protocol, right? So if you look at Bitcoin, in Bitcoin, the incentives are, you know, mining is done by computers, so your only incentive is like having social influence? And this is, I think, why we've seen a lot of kind of I would call it a scarcity mentality in terms of the way, why we see even more trolls in Bitcoin is because social influence is a huge way that success is measured, because as a developer, you can't have, you can't achieve a level of status any other way as a developer or as an influencer in Bitcoin, because the Bitcoin network is so far removed from that. And that's actually a perverse incentive in and of itself, and not only that, but early days in Bitcoin, there were major organizations who would hire people to man 100 Reddit and Twitter accounts and go into the Bitcoin community and actually fragment the public opinion using a technique grassroots psychological insurgency. So buying Reddit accounts that had been active for the last 10 years and going through and, you know, essentially just stabbing at people and creating, even having conversations with themselves to empower the voice of trolls. And what happens is you start bringing out what we call, actually, what the former Assad called, after Henry Kissinger, there was a big move that happened in the Middle East, where Kissinger realized the Middle East was becoming too powerful, and he saw it as a threat to American democracy. And so Kissinger organized a deal that fragmented the Middle East. And Assad said to Kissinger that his actions would be, he played Assad, basically. And Assad said to Kissinger, "Your actions "will bring up demons hidden underneath "the surface of the Arab world." And that strategy is actually something used in the Bitcoin community to leverage the incentives that are created, which is why we have seen previously so much, even from our industry leaders, so much fragmentation and so much tension. But the network is the most secure and the least corruptible, hands down, fundamentally. It's real cryptography. >> But let's talk about that, I love this conversation, because with networks, you have the concept of self-heal, and this gets nerdy on the packets, how packets move, at that level, self-healing networks has been a paradigm that's been proven. So that's out there, that's got to go to a societal level. The other one is the incentive system, if you have an immune system, if you will, in a network, this is a cultural thing. So actions, the Reddit's obvious, right. Weaponizing content has been well-documented, it's coming now mainstream, people are getting it that this outcome was actually manufactured by bad behavior. Now, I argue that there's an exact opposite effect. You can actually weaponize for good, 'cause everything has a polar opposite. So what is your view on that, because this is something that we've been teasing out for the first time. How do you weaponize content for good, (mumbles) not the right word, but look for the opposite value? >> Right, yeah, I mean, it is in so many ways, right. So I think it's about, there's a professor at Stanford whose name is BJ Fogg, and he's a behavioral researcher and he talks about essentially, you know, he writes a lot about habits. But something that's even more interesting about his understanding of propaganda is I studied a lot of Edward Bernays, he's responsible, he created the theory of propaganda, right. And he's the nephew of Sigmund Freud, he's responsible for essentially every consumptive theory in like leading up to the last century, he's actually, I would say he's responsible for the state of advertising and the economy today, almost really single handedly. And what's fascinating about this theory is that you can use propaganda to get women to smoke by unearthing what it is unconsciously in men that makes them not want to smoke. You can also use propaganda to get people to invest in health and wellness. You can also use propaganda to get people to stop their bad habits. So it's understanding that a technique works in a cognitive capacity in a way that affects a large amount of people. And it's really about the intention behind why a person who has influence, as we were saying, is leveraging that relationship. So I would say it's more about-- >> So we have to reimagine influence. Because the signalings that are igniting the cognitive brain can be tweaked. So that's what you're getting at here, right, so that's what we have to do. >> And it's an illusion from almost every angle. It's even the idea that, in the United States, the level of influence the president has and who's running, you know, and who, yeah, and who's at the wheel, right. So it's, we live in a world that is built on manufactured consent, and manufactured consent is enabled through thinkers like Bernays and through what I call the illusion of things like our former construct of even American democracy. That these things we've imagined to be so, the foundation and the structure for the way that we live. All of those things have become so far removed from their theory that they're no longer serving the principles under which they were founded, and that disconnect is actually a huge, it's a gap, it's an inertia gap for exploitation or it's an inertia gap for growth, and usually what happens is you have the exploitation first. Someone says oh, here's a big gap of information asymmetry, so I'm going to exploit the information asymmetry. And then once people start realizing that that information asymmetry is being exploited, you experience a huge inversion of that and you have enough kind of, you have enough inertia behind that slingshot to launch it into something totally different. >> Yeah, this is a great concept, I interviewed the founder of the Halcyon HAL in Washington, DC, and she's an amazing woman. And she had a great conscious about this, and what she postulated was, bubbles that burst, exploitation's always, we've seen it in all trends. The underbelly, 'cause it's motivated, no dogma. They don't care about structural incentives, they just want to make cash. But she had an interesting theory, she was talking about you can let the air out of the bubble with community and data. So all the societal entrepreneurship activities now that are mission-driven, now getting back to mission-driven is interesting. There might be a way to actually avoid the pop. Because, depending upon what the backlash might be on the exploitation side, as we saw in the dotcom bubble, you can actually let the air out a little bit through things like data. I mean, how do you see, in your mind, just thinking out loud, how do you see that playing out, because we have community now. We have access to open data. Blockchain is all about immutability. It's all about power to the user's data. This is a mega trend. Your thoughts? >> So interdependence is huge in the blockchain community, and that's actually to touch back on the incentives in Bitcoin, I think that that's actually one of Bitcoin's, it's not that it's a wrong or a right, it just is, right, like sidechains will be launched eventually, but the idea that Ethereum created something that was adaptable and empowered people to be creative, and yet they're creating incentives for her people to launch products that are, I believe, 'causing, in some ways, could cause some serious harm to the ecosystem once the air is let out of that bubble. >> John: The data. >> The data, so data, yes yes yes. >> How do you let the air out of the bubble, because the pop will be massively implosion, it'll leave a crater. >> So data is a non-scarce resource. This is actually how I describe blockchain to people. And this is actually, I think, one of the, the challenge, if you want to look at it from the perspective of challenge, and then I'll talk about for the benefit, just between Bitcoin and Ethereum, there are obviously other blockchains, EOS is like coming out super soon, Holochain. There are tons, Steem has actually its own infrastructure, tons of other blockchains to speak about. But just to take these two main blockchains, which are not competitors. In Bitcoin, you have, it's really cryptography. Cryptography is not about, you know, like let's do some rapid prototyping, cryptography is about let's like put a lot of thought into this thing and have mathematical certainty that this is not exploitatable. And Ethereum is just kind of like, well, let's build a framework and then let people play as much as they can. And so there are challenges and benefits to both of those models, the challenge of Ethereum being that you've let all of this capital into the industry which is not actually, 46% of ICOs have already failed. Already failed. And then if you look at Bitcoin-- >> And a person with your industry (mumbles) at 1,200, so it's a 50% discount. >> Oh yeah, oh yeah. And then if you do the same thing and you're looking at the Bitcoin blockchain, we've seen that the capacity for innovation, Bitcoin could have done what, they could've been the first to market for what Ethereum is doing. And they chose a different route, and I think there are some pros and cons to both of those things, but I think there is an intentionality behind why the world played out in the way that it did. And I think it's the right strategy for both products. So the way I describe applications using blockchain technology to people and what I call the future of an infinite economy is that, if you think about why are Facebook and Google these multi billion dollars companies, it's really simple. It's because what do they own, right? The data, the data. And they're some of the last companies that are still stewarding these things in a way that is taking vast amount of aggregated ownership over an asset that people are generating every day that's extremely valuable to companies in the private sector. So the way that I describe blockchain is that, if we being to own our self-sovereign identity, then when we're owning our data, that's the foundation for universal basic income. If we take a non-scarce resource like data that's being generated every day, not just from us, right, but the data in the health of the ocean, right. The stewardship of the ocean, the health of the fish, actually saying okay, fish are thriving in this area, and so there's a healthy ecosystem, and so this coin is trading higher because we're stewarding this area of the ocean so we don't overfish. The quality of the air so that, when we're actually de-polluting the air collectively, everyone around us is creating and generating data to say we're making the air better. The air, actually, the health of our bodies, of our Earth, of our minds, of our planet, of even the health of our innovation. Right, what are the incentives behind our innovation, those are all forms of data. And that's a non-scarce resource, so if we take all of these different applications and make many different blockchains. Which I fundamentally believe that there's a powerful theory in having blockchains that are economically scarce, because I believe you're going to empower more diverse spectrums and also have a level of difficulty in creating the coin. You're going to have more innovation. And so-- >> Well, this is a key area. I mean, this is super important. Well, I mean, you step back for a second, you zoom out, you say okay, we have data, data's super valuable, if you take it to the individual's levels, which has not been, quite frankly, the individual's been exploited. Facebooks of the world, these siloed platforms, have been using the data for advertising. That's just what everyone knows, but there's other examples. The point is, when you put the data in the hands of the users, combine that with cloud computing and the Internet of Things when you can have an edge of the network high powered computer, the use cases have never been pushed before. The envelope that we're pushing now has never been in this configuration. You could never have a decentralized network, immutable, storing users' data, you've never had the ability to write the kind of software you can today, you've never had cloud computing, you've never had compute at the edge, which is where the users live, they are the edge. You have the ability where the user's role can enable a new kind of collective intelligence. This is like mind blowing. So I mean, just how would you explain that to a common person? I mean, 'cause this is the challenge, 'cause collective intelligence has been well documented in data science. User generated content is kind of the beginning of what we see in user wearables. But if you can control the data streaming into the network, with all the self-healing and all the geek stuff we're talking about, it's going to change structural things. How do you explain that to a normal person? >> You don't, you don't, right. So you show them. Because I can sit here all day and I can talk to you about, you know, I could talk to you about all of these things, but at the end of the day, with normal people, it's not something you want to explain. You want to show them, because with my, actually, my grandma gets Bitcoin. My grandma hit me up in like 2012 and she was like, "Do you know what that Bitcoin thing is?" I'm like, "Mimi," I'm like, "How do you know "what Bitcoin is, Mimi?" And she's just like, "I don't know, I read." You know, I was like, "This is, so what are you reading? "Like, are you hanging out on like libertarian forums, "like what's up?" And so-- >> What's going on in the club there, I mean, are they playing-- >> Yeah, but she is a really unique lady. So I would say that, for most people, they are not going to, when you explain things to people-- >> What would you show them, I mean, what's an example? >> The way that, so when I was, so I got into Bitcoin in 2011, and the way that I would explain Bitcoin to people is I would just send it to them. I would be like, "Here's Bitcoin, like take this Bitcoin, "here's some Bitcoin for you." And that was, people got it, because they were like, I have five dollars now in my hands that was not there. And this person just sent it to me. And for some people even still, you know, to be honest, even then, I remember how much energy it took for me to do that. Everywhere I go, I'd be like, in cabs, I'd be checking out grocery stores and I would try, I would essentially pitch Bitcoin to every person that I met. >> John: You were evangelizing a lot of it. >> It took so much energy though, and even after that, there was a period-- >> It was hard for people to receive it, they would have to do what at that time? Think about what the process was back then. >> Oh yeah. There were very few people who, even after doing that, really got it. But you know what happened. This is so much perspective for me, I remember doing that in 2013 and I remember, in 2018, actually, I think it was the end of 2017. I went to a gas station, it's the only gas station in San Francisco with a Bitcoin ATM. And I was like, I need to get some cash and I'm running on Bitcoin. >> John: You guys want a mountain view now. >> Yeah, yeah. And so I go in and these guys, I'm like frustrated, I'm like oh, the ATM is like the worst user experience ever, I'm like (groans). That's literally, I'm like, it's just, it was like eyes rolling in the back of my head, like just so frustrated because I'm a super privacy freak. And so it was just a super complex process, but the guys that, the guy's (mumbles) he looks at me and he goes, "Yo." And I was like, "What's up, man?" And he goes, "Are you trying to buy some Bitcoin?" I was like, "I'm trying to sell some Bitcoin right now." (John laughs) >> You're dispensing it, they're like yeah. >> Yeah, he's like, "Oh, word." And he's like, "How much are you trying to sell?" And I'm like, "I don't know, like 2K." And so he goes, "Aight." And he's like, "Let me hit up my friends," he literally calls three of his friends who come down and they just like, they're like, "Do you want to sell more?" They're like, all they just peer to peer. It's like we bypass the ATM and it was actually a peer to peer exchange. And I didn't have to explain anything. You know what made people get it? You showed them the money, you showed them the money. And sometimes people don't, you can explain these concepts that are world-changing, super high level or whatever. People are not actually going to get it until it's useful to them. And that's why a user interface is so important. Like, if you even look at the Internet. Who made the money on the Internet, right, it was the people who understood how to own the user interface. >> I had a conversation with Fred Kruger from WorkCoin, he's been around the block for a long time, great guy. We were riffing on the old days. But we talked about the killer app for the mini computer and the mainframe, the mini computer and then the PC, it was email, for 20 years, the killer app was email. We were like, what's the killer app for blockchain? It's money, the killer app is money. And it's going to be 50 year killer app. Now, the marketplace is certainly maybe tier two killer app, but the killer app is money. >> For sure, that's amazing. >> That's the killer app. Okay, so we're talking about money, let's talk about wallets and whatnot. There's a lot of people that I know personally that had been, wallets had been hacked. Double authentication (mumbles) news articles on this, but even early on, you got to protect yourself. It's something that you're an advocate of, I know recently, you've been sharing some stuff on Telegram. Share your thoughts on newbies coming in, be careful. Your wallet can be hacked, and you got to take care of yourself online. Is there a best practice, can you share some color commentary on when you get into the system, when you get Bitcoin or crypto, what are some of the best practices? >> It's not even, I think you need to remember a key principle of cryptography when you're dealing with digital currency, which was like don't really trust anything unless you call someone, you have like first hand verification from a person that you trust. Because these things are, I mean, I've had, literally last week, I had seven friends contact me, actually more than that once I posted about it, and they were like, "Is this you?" And I was like what, like people would literally just go online, they would scrape my Facebook photo, they'd go on Telegram and they would make, my name is @ToniLaneC, T-O-N-I-L-A-N-E-C, and so is my Twitter, and people would scrape my photos from my Twitter or my Telegram or my Facebook and they would create fake accounts. And they would start messaging people and say "Hey, like "what's up, how are you, that's cool, great, awesome. "So like, I need like 20 BTC for a loan. "Can you help me?" And all my friends were like, "I was just talking to you, is this you?" And I'm like no. And so I think that there's, the other thing you have to, it's not just security in terms of, and this is actually a problem Blockchain has to solve, right. It's not just security in terms of protecting your wallet and, you know, getting like a Ledger or a Trezor and making sure that you're keeping things like in cold storage, that you're going, there are so many, keeping your money in a hard wallet, not keeping your private keys on your computer, like keeping everything, storing your passwords in multiple places that you know are safe. Both handwritten, like in lock boxes, putting it in your safe deposit box or, you know, there are so many different ways that we can get into like the complexities of protecting yourself and security. Not using centralized cell networks is one of the big ways that I do this. Because if you are using two factor-- >> John: What's a centralized cell network? >> AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile. Because you are putting yourself in a situation where, if you're using a centralized system, those centralized systems are really easily exploitable. I know because my mom, when I was a kid one time, she put a password on my account so I couldn't buy games. I was not happy about it, it was my money that I was using, it was my money I was using to buy games, she was like, "You should just spend your money on better things." And so I remember going in when I was a kid, and I was like, this is my money, I totally want to buy this upgrade on this game. And so I went in and I essentially figured out how to hack into my own phone to be able to use my own money to buy the games that I wanted to buy-- >> Highly motivated learning opportunity there (laughs). >> But I realized that, in the same way we were talking about things that can be used for good can be used for bad, in the same way that someone can do something like that, you can also say, well, I'm in a call and say that I'm this person and take their phone and then get their two factor auth. So I don't use centralized cell networks, I don't use cell networks at all. >> John: What do you use? >> So, I mean, I have different kinds of like strategies or different things that mostly-- >> You might not want to say it here, okay, all right. >> Yeah yeah yeah, they're different, I'm happy to talk about those privately. The way that I've kind of handled that situation, and then the other thing that I would say is like, we really need hardcore reputation systems in our industry and for the world. And not social reputation systems like what is happening in China right now, where you can have someone leave you, like let's say I get into an Uber and I'm 30 seconds late. I can end up in a situation where I'm like not able to be admitted into a hospital or I'm not able to take a public train. Because someone rates me lower on this reputation system, I think that's a huge human rights issue. >> John: Yeah, that's a huge problem. >> And so not reputation systems like this, but reputations like the one we're working on at CULTU.RE that are really based more on the idea of restoration and humanization, rather than continued social exploitation to create some kind of collective norm, I think that kind of model is, it's not only a-- >> Well, the network should reject that by-- >> Toni: Exactly, exactly. >> All right, so let's talk about digital nations, we have China, so there's some bad behavior going on there. I mean, some will argue that there's really no R&D over there, and now they're trying to export the R&D that they stole into other countries, again, that's my personal rant. But the innovation there is clear, we chat and other things are happening. They finally turned the corner where they're driving a lot of, you know, mainly because of the mobile. But there's other nations out there that are kind of left behind. The UK just signed this week with Coinbase a pretty instrumental landmark licensing deal, which is a signal, 'cause I know Estonia, Armenia, you name every country wants to, Bahrain's got, you know, Dubai envy. So I mean, every country wants to be the crypto country. Every country wants to be the smart cities digital nation. I know this is something that you liked, and you and I were talking about 'cause we both are interested in. Your reaction, your thoughts on where that's going, I see, it's a good sign. What are the thresholds there, what are some of the keys things that they need to do to be a real digital nation? >> Well, I think it's less about digital nations in terms of like a nation is a series of borders, and more about first nations that we are, this is what we work on at CULTU.RE, that we are actually a nation of people and a lot of those nations have overlap and we should be able to participate in many different nations who have many different economies that are all really cooperating interdependently to create the best possible life for all human good, rather than just saying like I care about me and mine, because that strategy, the way government works now, it's a closed network with low trust that is extremely inefficient in management of resources. And the only way you can really-- >> That's the opposite, by the way, of what this movement's about. >> Yeah, exactly. And the only way you can have influence in government is to go in government and to work through government. All right. So it's the idea that, look at how much food we waste in the United States. If we took the food we wasted in the United States and repurposed it, we could literally cure world hunger. That is how bad it has gotten, right. And there are people starving in the US. There are people on food stamps in the US. >> Well, I mean, every institution, education, healthcare, you name it, it's all, you know, FUBAR, big time. >> Yeah, but we're throwing away tons of lettuce and all of this different kinds of produce because it like looks funky. Like this peach looks a little too much like a bottom. So we're like not able to sell it. >> Or lettuce got a little brown on it, throw the whole thing away. >> Yes, exactly, exactly, and that waste is unacceptable. So what we need to move toward is a model of open networks of governance where we have peer to peer distribution of finance and of resources in a way that allows people to aggregate around the marketplaces that are actually benefiting the way that they believe the world should work. So it's about creating a collective strategy of collective non-violence and eliminating harm, so obviously, you know, having a society that has enough proper incentives so that people are well off and that people are provided for, and I think blockchain will-- >> I noticed you're wearing a United Nations pin. >> Woo-hoo, yeah. And blockchain, I think, will also create this. >> John: I have one too. >> Let's up top. (slap) Yeah, I think blockchain will also help create universal basic income, but in addition to that, it's the idea that, if I'm living next door, I'll give two examples. So one is about the legality of the way that we contribute to the society. So let's say I have a next door neighbor. And let's say that this next door neighbor and I feel literally, we totally get along on everything, there's just one issue we feel we're like, I totally disagree with this, I totally disagree. And that issue is the use of, and I hope this isn't controversial to say, but anyway. So the use of medical marijuana, right. And it shouldn't be, because we can have two different opinions and the world can still work and that's the point. >> Well, in California, it's now legal to own marijuana. >> Yeah, for sure, it's legal here as well. So it's the idea that, if I, so let's say I'm a woman who, you know, I have someone in my life who was injured by a driver who was driving under the influence of marijuana. And so that's all I know about marijuana because I don't really do drugs, I've never been around drugs. So when I hear that word, I immediately think about the person in my life who was harmed because of, yes, and so immediately triggered, and I'm like, I don't want to support anything, I don't want to support anything to do with marijuana, I think marijuana is like the Devil's lettuce. And I have no interest in supporting marijuana. She never has to support marijuana, she doesn't have to. But her next door neighbor is a veteran with Parkinson's disease, her, me, whatever, is a veteran with Parkinson's disease, okay. And the only way that this man can move is, he's literally shaking, but when he smokes medical marijuana, he's actually able to, you watch and literally 30-45 minutes, he's upright, he looks like a normal healthy man. And so he says, "I believe that every, "after I fought in this, I believe every person "should have access to medical marijuana, "because this is the only way I'm able "to even operate my life." >> The different context. >> And I'm so, yes, exactly. And so what culture is really about is about understanding each other's context, that's even how reputation works. It's contextual awareness that provides greater understanding of who we are as individuals and the way we work together to make society work. So maybe they can mutually agree that he is not going to smoke while he's driving and he can pay to support everyone to have access who needs access to medical marijuana. >> Or he could finance Uber rides for them. You know, or whatever, I mean, these are mechanisms. >> Yes, yes, but it's the, yes, exactly, exactly. It's the idea that we are all, we're coming together to share context is a way that's not aggressive and not accusatory, so two people can believe two totally different things and still develop enough mutual respect to live together peacefully in a society. >> You know, the other too I'm riffing on that is that now KYC is a concept (mumbles) kicked around here, know your customer. I've been riffing on the notion of KYC for know your neighbor. And what we're seeing in these communities, even the analog world, people don't know who their neighbors are. Like, they don't actually even like care about them. >> Toni: For sure. >> You know, maybe I grew up in, you know, a different culture where, you know, everyone played freely, the parents were on the porch having their cocktail or socializing and watching the kids from the porch play on the lawn. Now I call that Snapchat, right. So I can see my kids Snapchat, so I'm not involved, but I have peripheral view. >> Toni: For sure. >> But we took care of each other. That doesn't happen much anymore, and I think one of the things that's interesting in some of these community dynamics that's been successful is this empathy about respect. They kind of get to know people in a non-judgmental way. And I think that is something that you see in some of these fragmented communities, where it's just like, if they just did things a little bit different. Do you agree, I see you're shaking your head, your thoughts on this? This super interesting social science thing that's, now you can measure it with digital or you can measure that kind of-- >> We can incentivize it. We can incentivize it. And that's the difference, measurement is one thing. Incentive is a behavior changer. Incentive is a behavior changer. And that is what we actually have to do in the way we think about the foundation of these systems, is it's not incentivizing competitive marketplaces that are like my way of thinking about this is right and your way of thinking about this thing is wrong, and like ah, it's not about that. At the end of the day like, I think we forget or misquote so much of, so many of the great thinkers of the last generation, like if you think about Darwin. What does everyone know about Darwin, right, it's like survival of the fittest. It's not what Darwin said, okay. It's misquoted and it's used, it's like one of those things where people who want to exploit-- >> It's a meme, basically. >> Yeah, people who want to exploit someone else's knowledge for their own ends will use that to, in some way, uplift the kind of like strategy of, you know, incentives of the time. What Darwin actually said was that human beings with the highest capacity for sympathy, qualities we now identify as altruism, compassion, empathy, reciprocity, will be the most likely to survive during hardship. Fundamentally, I mean, look at the state of the world today. It doesn't look good, it's like, you look at the way people interact with each other, it's like a virus that's attacking itself in an ecosystem that is our planet Earth, and we need to be, you know what is the antibody, our own sense of consideration for our fellow man. That is the antibody to violence. And so we can incentivize this, and we're going to have to because we're going to, AI, automation, these will fundamentally transform the way we think about jobs in a way that will liberate us like we've never known before. And once given the freedom, I think that we'll see the world start to change. >> Toni, I really appreciate you spending the time in this thought leadership conversation, riffing back and forth. Feels great and it's a great productive conversation. I got to ask you, how did you get there? I mean, who are you? I mean, you're amazing. Like, how did you get here, you obviously, Coin Telegraph's one of the projects you're running, great content. You're wearing the UN pin, I'm aligning with that. Got a great perspective. What's your story? Where did you come from originally, I mean... How did you get here? >> I think, you know, I don't know. I'm really connected to Saturn, I don't know where my home planet is. >> Which spaceship did you come in on? No, I mean, seriously, what's your background? How did you weave into this? 'Cause you have a holistic view on things, it's impressive. But you also can get down and dirty on the tech, and you have a good, strong network. Did you kind of back into this by accident on purpose, or was it something that you studied? What's the evolution that you have? >> Yeah, you know. I studied performance art and I was an artist all of my life. And I had a really big existential crisis, because I realized, as I was looking around, that technology was replacing every form. I remember the first time I watched an AI generate, this was maybe in like, I don't remember how, this was a long time ago, but I was essentially watching, before like the deep dream stuff, maybe like 2009 or 10. And I remember watching computers generate art. And I just was like, I was like mic drop, I was like anything that could ever be created can and will be created by computers, because these are, you are looking at this data, you can scan every art piece in the world and create an amalgamation of this in a way that extends so far beyond team and capacity that the form that we have used to express artistic integrity, all forms will, in some way, become obsolete as a form of creative expression. And I had this huge existential crisis as a performer, realizing that the value of my work was essentially, like, how long would the value of my work live on if no one is, I am not alive to continue singing the song. You don't remember the people who played Carmen, you remember Bizet who wrote the opera, you remember Carmen the character, but the life of the performer is like that of a butterfly. It's like you emerge from the cocoon, you fly around the world beautifully for a very short amount of time. And then you just, you know, stardust again. And so I had this huge existential moment, and it was a really big awakening call. It was as though the gravity of the universe came into the entire dimension of my being and said these, what you have learned has given you a skill, but this is not your path. So I went okay, I just need some time to like process that and so, 'cause this is my entire life, it's the only thing I ever imagined I would ever do. And so I ended up spending three months in silence meditating. And people are like whoa, like how did you do that? And I don't think people, I don't know, not that people don't understand, but I'm not certain that a lot of people have the level of this kind of existential moment that I experienced. And I couldn't have done anything else, I really just needed to take that time to process that I was actually reformulating every construct at the foundation of my own reality. And that was going to take, that's not something you just do overnight, right, like some people can do it more fluidly, but this was a real shift, a conscious shift. And so I asked myself three questions in that meditation, it was what is my purpose, what is the paradigm shift and where is my love. And so I just meditated on these three questions and started to, I don't know how deeply you've studied lucid dreaming or out of body experiences, but that's another, a conversation we can get into in another time, that was my area of study during that period. And so I ended up leaving the three months in silence and I just kind of, I started following my intuition. So I would just, essentially, sometimes I'd walk into a library and I would just shut my eyes and I would just walk around and I would touch books. And I would just feel what they felt like to me, like the density of their knowledge. And I would just feel something that I felt called to, and I would just pull it out of the shelf and just read it. And I don't know how to explain it-- >> (mumbles) Energy, basically-- >> I was guided, I was guided to this. This was in 2011. And so what I started getting into was propaganda theory, the dissolution of Aristotelian politics as an idea of citizen and state when we're really all consumers in a Keynesian economy structured by Edward Bernays, the inventor of propaganda, who essentially based our entire attitude of economic health on, you know, a dissolving human well being. Like, the evolution of our economic well being and our human well being were fundamentally at odds, and not only was that system non-sustainable, but it was a complete illusion. At every touch, point and turn, that the systems we lived in were illusions. And so is all of the world, right, like this whole world is an illusion, but these illusions in particular have some serious implications in terms of people who don't have the capacity, or not the capacity, everyone has the capacity, but who have not explored that deeply, right, who haven't gone that deep with themselves. >> And one of those books was like a tech book or was like-- >> It was just multiple, no, it was multiple books. And it's not that I would even read all of the books all of the way through. Sometimes I would just pick up a book and I would just open it to a certain page and I would read like a passage or a couple pages, and I'd just feel like that's all I need to read out of that book. It's, you just tune into it. >> When was your first trade on Bitcoin, first buy, 2011? >> You want to know something nuts? People always, people are like, "When did you first buy Bitcoin?" I was not, I didn't. So after I started, once you know, all this knowledge came to me, I just started talking about it, I was like, I've been given some wisdom, I just have to share it. So I started going out into the world and finding podiums and sharing. And that was when someone put a USB full of Bitcoin into my hands. I very rarely, I don't necessarily buy, I've just been gifted a lot. >> Good gifts. >> Toni: They've been great gifts, yeah. >> And then when did you start Coin Telegraph, when did that come online? >> So that was in 2013. I joined, the property had been operable for I think like three or four months. And some guys called me and they said, "We're just really impressed with you "and we want to work with you." And I said, "Well, that's nice," I was like, "But you don't have a business, right?" And they were like, "What do you mean?" And I was like, "Well, you have a blog, right?" And so I went in and I said, essentially like, here's, to scale the property, I was like, "Here's a plan for the next three years. "If we really want to get this property to where "it needs to be." I'm like, "Here are the programs that we need "to institute, here's like this entire, "countries we can be operable in "and then other acquisitions of other properties." I essentially went in and said like, "Here's the business model and the plan at scale," and they were just like, I think they were a little like, the first call that we had, I think they were just like, "We just called you to," it was a bold move, like, "We just called you to offer you something, "and you countered our offer by saying "we don't have a business?" It was one of those things, but they-- >> Well, it was the labor of love for them, right, I mean-- >> Well, for all of us, yeah, for all of us. >> When all you do is you're blogging, you're just sharing. And then you start thinking about, you know, how to grow, and you got to nurture it, you need cash. >> Yes, and so I essentially came in and then started, I was both editor in chief and CEO and co-founder of the property who helped bring in a lot of the network, build the reputation for the brand, create a scaling strategy. A lot of mergers and acquisitions, a lot of franchises and-- >> How many properties did you buy roughly, handful, six, less than six? >> So I would also say that-- >> Little blogs and kind of (mumbles) them together, bring people together, was that the thinking? >> Yeah, you know, what's interesting is media from all shapes and sizes, 15 to 20 offices in 25 different countries. I always say this when I talk about this, a very important lesson that I learned. How do you manage a team of 40 anarchists? You don't, you don't, that's the answer, you don't, you don't even like, you're like oh. I remember when I was like, "We're a team!" And someone was like, "No, we're not, "I don't believe in teams, I work for myself "and I don't need," I was like oh, wow. I was like oh-- >> John: The power of we, no. >> I was just like, all right, but it was a good learning experience, because I was like well, this is the way, these are your needs. So if that's your, I was like, well, let's embrace that, let's embrace the idea-- >> But that's the culture, you can't change it. >> And let's create the economy around that, let's actually do direct incentive for it, if you think that you're, if you want to be in this on your own, then let's say okay, we're going to make this fully free market economics and we're going to have a matter of consensus on whether or not someone who's exploiting the system, you write an article, you send it out, the number of views and shares that it gets from accounts that are, you know, proven verified, that is how much you get out of the bounty that's created from our ad sales, and if the community comes together in a consensus and says that someone wrote an article that was basically exploiting the system, like beer, guns, tits and weed plus Bitcoin and then they just shared it with everyone, then obviously, they would be weighted differently because the community would reach consensus so-- >> Change the incentive system. >> We just, I started, yeah, I started redesigning, essentially, once I had that moment, I was like okay, I was like, well, we really got to change the incentives here then because the incentives are not going to work like that. If that's the, if there's a consensus that that is the way you guys want to do things, then I got to change things around that. All right, cool, and so yeah, it was a really interesting awesome learning experience from like, you know, a team of like, maybe like 20 to 40 into, probably took it up 40, and then with all of the other, you know, companies and franchises, to about 435 people. And then just took the revenue from, yeah, just took, it was like skating revenue and then rocketing revenue. So that was really my role in the growth of the business and we're all, you know, it's amazing to see how these kind of blockchain holacracies work, you know, at a micro scale and at a macro scale. And what it really takes to build a movement, right. And then, in some ways, I guess it'd either become or create a meme. >> Well, I really appreciate the movement you've been supporting, we're here to bring theCUBE to the movement, our second show, third show we've been doing. And getting a lot more this year, as the ecosystem is coming together, the norms are forming, they're storming, they're forming, it's great stuff. You've been a great thought leader, and thanks for sharing the awesome range of topics here for theCUBE. >> For sure. >> Toni Lane here inside theCUBE, I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching our exclusive Puerto Rico coverage of CoinAgenda, we'll be right back. (energetic music)