>> From Cambridge, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Covering MIT Chief Data Officer and Information Quality Symposium 2019. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. (futuristic music) >> Welcome back to Cambridge, Massachusetts everybody. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events and we extract the signal from the noise. This is day two, we're sort of wrapping up the Chief Data Officer event. It's MIT CDOIQ, it started as an information quality event and with the ascendancy of big data the CDO emerged and really took center stage here. And it's interesting to know that it's kind of come full circle back to information quality. People are realizing all this data we have, you know the old saying, garbage in, garbage out. So the information quality worlds and this chief data officer world have really come colliding together. Robert Abate is here, he's the Vice President and CDO of Global IDS and also the co-chair of next year's, the 14th annual MIT CDOIQ. Robert, thanks for coming on. >> Oh, well thank you. >> Now you're a CDO by background, give us a little history of your career. >> Sure, sure. Well I started out with an Electrical Engineering degree and went into applications development. By 2000, I was leading the Ralph Lauren's IT, and I realized when Ralph Lauren hired me, he was getting ready to go public. And his problem was he had hired eight different accounting firms to do eight different divisions. And each of those eight divisions were reporting a number, but the big number didn't add up, so he couldn't go public. So he searched the industry to find somebody who could figure out the problem. Now I was, at the time, working in applications and had built this system called Service Oriented Architectures, a way of integrating applications. And I said, "Well I don't know if I could solve the problem, "but I'll give it a shot." And what I did was, just by taking each silo as it's own problem, which was what EID Accounting Firm had done, I was able to figure out that one of Ralph Lauren's policies was if you buy a garment, you can return it anytime, anywhere, forever, however long you own it. And he didn't think about that, but what that meant is somebody could go to a Bloomingdale's, buy a garment and then go to his outlet store and return it. Well, the cross channels were different systems. So the outlet stores were his own business, retail was a different business, there was a completely different, each one had their own AS/400, their own data. So what I quickly learned was, the problem wasn't the systems, the problem was the data. And it took me about two months to figure it out and he offered me a job, he said well, I was a consultant at the time, he says, "I'm offering you a job, you're going to run my IT." >> Great user experience but hard to count. >> (laughs) Hard to count. So that's when I, probably 1999 was when that happened. I went into data and started researching-- >> Sorry, so how long did it take you to figure that out? You said a couple of months? >> A couple of months, I think it was about two months. >> 'Cause jeez, it took Oracle what, 10 years to build Fusion with SOA? That's pretty good. (laughs) >> This was a little bit of luck. When we started integrating the applications we learned that the messages that we were sending back and forth didn't match, and we said, "Well that's impossible, it can't not match." But what didn't match was it was coming from one channel and being returned in another channel, and the returns showed here didn't balance with the returns on this side. So it was a data problem. >> So a forensics showdown. So what did you do after? >> After that I went into ICICI Bank which was a large bank in India who was trying to integrate their systems, and again, this was a data problem. But they heard me giving a talk at a conference on how SOA had solved the data challenge, and they said, "We're a bank with a wholesale, a retail, "and other divisions, "and we can't integrate the systems, can you?" I said, "Well yeah, I'd build a website "and make them web services and now what'll happen is "each of those'll kind of communicate." And I was at ICICI Bank for about six months in Mumbai, and finished that which was a success, came back and started consulting because now a lot of companies were really interested in this concept of Service Oriented Architectures. Back then when we first published on it, myself, Peter Aiken, and a gentleman named Joseph Burke published on it in 1996. The publisher didn't accept the book, it was a really interesting thing. We wrote the book called, "Services Based Architectures: A Way to Integrate Systems." And the way Wiley & Sons, or most publishers work is, they'll have three industry experts read your book and if they don't think what you're saying has any value, they, forget about it. So one guy said this is brilliant, one guy says, "These guys don't know what they're talking about," and the third guy says, "I don't even think what they're talking about is feasible." So they decided not to publish. Four years later it came back and said, "We want to publish the book," and Peter said, "You know what, they lost their chance." We were ahead of them by four years, they didn't understand the technology. So that was kind of cool. So from there I went into consulting, eventually took a position as the Head of Enterprise and Director of Enterprise Information Architecture with Walmart. And Walmart, as you know, is a huge entity, almost the size of the federal government. So to build an architecture that integrates Walmart would've been a challenge, a behemoth challenge, and I took it on with a phenomenal team. >> And when was this, like what timeframe? >> This was 2010, and by the end of 2010 we had presented an architecture to the CIO and the rest of the organization, and they came back to me about a week later and said, "Look, everybody agrees what you did was brilliant, "but nobody knows how to implement it. "So we're taking you away, "you're no longer Director of Information Architecture, "you're now Director of Enterprise Information Management. "Build it. "Prove that what you say you could do, you could do." So we built something called the Data CAFE, and CAFE was an acronym, it stood for: Collaborative Analytics Facility for the Enterprise. What we did was we took data from one of the divisions, because you didn't want to take on the whole beast, boil the ocean. We picked Sam's Club and we worked with their CFO, and because we had information about customers we were able to build a room with seven 80 inch monitors that surrounded anyone in the room. And in the center was the Cisco telecommunications so you could be a part of a meeting. >> The TelePresence. >> TelePresence. And we built one room in one facility, and one room in another facility, and we labeled the monitors, one red, one blue, one green, and we said, "There's got to be a way where we can build "data science so it's interactive, so somebody, "an executive could walk into the room, "touch the screen, and drill into features. "And in another room "the features would be changing simultaneously." And that's what we built. The room was brought up on Black Friday of 2013, and we were able to see the trends of sales on the East Coast that we quickly, the executives in the room, and these are the CEO of Walmart and the heads of Sam's Club and the like, they were able to change the distribution in the Mountain Time Zone and west time zones because of the sales on the East Coast gave them the idea, well these things are going to sell, and these things aren't. And they saw a tremendous increase in productivity. We received the 2014, my team received the 2014 Walmart Innovation Project of the Year. >> And that's no slouch. Walmart has always been heavily data-oriented. I don't know if it's urban legend or not, but the famous story in the '80s of the beer and the diapers, right? Walmart would position beer next to diapers, why would they do that? Well the father goes in to buy the diapers for the baby, picks up a six pack while he's on the way, so they just move those proximate to each other. (laughs) >> In terms of data, Walmart really learned that there's an advantage to understanding how to place items in places that, a path that you might take in a store, and knowing that path, they actually have a term for it, I believe it's called, I'm sorry, I forgot the name but it's-- >> Selling more stuff. (laughs) >> Yeah, it's selling more stuff. It's the way you position items on a shelf. And Walmart had the brilliance, or at least I thought it was brilliant, that they would make their vendors the data champion. So the vendor, let's say Procter & Gamble's a vendor, and they sell this one product the most. They would then be the champion for that aisle. Oh, it's called planogramming. So the planogramming, the way the shelves were organized, would be set up by Procter & Gamble for that entire area, working with all their other vendors. And so Walmart would give the data to them and say, "You do it." And what I was purporting was, well, we shouldn't just be giving the data away, we should be using that data. And that was the advent of that. From there I moved to Kimberly-Clark, I became Global Director of Enterprise Data Management and Analytics. Their challenge was they had different teams, there were four different instances of SAP around the globe. One for Latin America, one for North America called the Enterprise Edition, one for EMEA, Europe, Middle East, and Africa, and one for Asia-Pacific. Well when you have four different instances of SAP, that means your master data doesn't exist because the same thing that happens in this facility is different here. And every company faces this challenge. If they implement more than one of a system the specialty fields get used by different companies in different ways. >> The gold standard, the gold version. >> The golden version. So I built a team by bringing together all the different international teams, and created one team that was able to integrate best practices and standards around data governance, data quality. Built BI teams for each of the regions, and then a data science and advanced analytics team. >> Wow, so okay, so that makes you uniquely qualified to coach here at the conference. >> Oh, I don't know about that. (laughs) There are some real, there are some geniuses here. >> No but, I say that because these are your peeps. >> Yes, they are, they are. >> And so, you're a practitioner, this conference is all about practitioners talking to practitioners, it's content-heavy, There's not a lot of fluff. Lunches aren't sponsored, there's no lanyard sponsor and it's not like, you know, there's very subtle sponsor desks, you have to have sponsors 'cause otherwise the conference's not enabled, and you've got costs associated with it. But it's a very intimate event and I think you guys want to keep it that way. >> And I really believe you're dead-on. When you go to most industry conferences, the industry conferences, the sponsors, you know, change the format or are heavily into the format. Here you have industry thought leaders from all over the globe. CDOs of major Fortune 500 companies who are working with their peers and exchanging ideas. I've had conversations with a number of CDOs and the thought leadership at this conference, I've never seen this type of thought leadership in any conference. >> Yeah, I mean the percentage of presentations by practitioners, even when there's a vendor name, they have a practitioner, you know, internal practitioner presenting so it's 99.9% which is why people attend. We're moving venues next year, I understand. Just did a little tour of the new venue, so, going to be able to accommodate more attendees, so that's great. >> Yeah it is. >> So what are your objectives in thinking ahead a year from now? >> Well, you know, I'm taking over from my current peer, Dr. Arka Mukherjee, who just did a phenomenal job of finding speakers. People who are in the industry, who are presenting challenges, and allowing others to interact. So I hope could do a similar thing which is, find with my peers people who have real world challenges, bring them to the forum so they can be debated. On top of that, there are some amazing, you know, technology change is just so fast. One of the areas like big data I remember only five years ago the chart of big data vendors maybe had 50 people on it, now you would need the table to put all the vendors. >> Who's not a data vendor, you know? >> Who's not a data vendor? (laughs) So I would think the best thing we could do is, is find, just get all the CDOs and CDO-types into a room, and let us debate and talk about these points and issues. I've seen just some tremendous interactions, great questions, people giving advice to others. I've learned a lot here. >> And how about long term, where do you see this going? How many CDOs are there in the world, do you know? Is that a number that's known? >> That's a really interesting point because, you know, only five years ago there weren't that many CDOs to be called. And then Gartner four years ago or so put out an article saying, "Every company really should have a CDO." Not just for the purpose of advancing your data, and to Doug Laney's point that data is being monetized, there's a need to have someone responsible for information 'cause we're in the Information Age. And a CIO really is focused on infrastructure, making sure I've got my PCs, making sure I've got a LAN, I've got websites. The focus on data has really, because of the Information Age, has turned data into an asset. So organizations realize, if you utilize that asset, let me reverse this, if you don't use data as an asset, you will be out of business. I heard a quote, I don't know if it's true, "Only 10 years ago, 250 of the Fortune 10 no longer exists." >> Yeah, something like that, the turnover's amazing. >> Many of those companies were companies that decided not to make the change to be data-enabled, to make data decision processing. Companies still use data warehouses, they're always going to use them, and a warehouse is a rear-view mirror, it tells you what happened last week, last month, last year. But today's businesses work forward-looking. And just like driving a car, it'd be really hard to drive your car through a rear-view mirror. So what companies are doing today are saying, "Okay, let's start looking at this as forward-looking, "a prescriptive and predictive analytics, "rather than just what happened in the past." I'll give you an example. In a major company that is a supplier of consumer products, they were leading in the industry and their sales started to drop, and they didn't know why. Well, with a data science team, we were able to determine by pulling in data from the CDC, now these are sources that only 20 years ago nobody ever used to bring in data in the enterprise, now 60% of your data is external. So we brought in data from the CDC, we brought in data on maternal births from the national government, we brought in data from the Census Bureau, we brought in data from sources of advertising and targeted marketing towards mothers. Pulled all that data together and said, "Why are diaper sales down?" Well they were targeting the large regions of the country and putting ads in TV stations in New York and California, big population centers. Birth rates in population centers have declined. Birth rates in certain other regions, like the south, and the Bible Belt, if I can call it that, have increased. So by changing the marketing, their product sales went up. >> Advertising to Texas. >> Well, you know, and that brings to one of the points, I heard a lecture today about ethics. We made it a point at Walmart that if you ran a query that reduced a result to less than five people, we wouldn't allow you to see the result. Because, think about it, I could say, "What is my neighbor buying? "What are you buying?" So there's an ethical component to this as well. But that, you know, data is not political. Data is not chauvinistic. It doesn't discriminate, it just gives you facts. It's the interpretation of that that is hard CDOs, because we have to say to someone, "Look, this is the fact, and your 25 years "of experience in the business, "granted, is tremendous and it's needed, "but the facts are saying this, "and that would mean that the business "would have to change its direction." And it's hard for people to do, so it requires that. >> So whether it's called the chief data officer, whatever the data czar rubric is, the head of analytics, there's obviously the data quality component there whatever that is, this is the conference for, as I called them, your peeps, for that role in the organization. People often ask, "Will that role be around?" I think it's clear, it's solidifying. Yes, you see the chief digital officer emerging and there's a lot of tailwinds there, but the information quality component, the data architecture component, it's here to stay. And this is the premiere conference, the premiere event, that I know of anyway. There are a couple of others, perhaps, but it's great to see all the success. When I first came here in 2013 there were probably about 130 folks here. Today, I think there were 500 people registered almost. Next year, I think 600 is kind of the target, and I think it's very reasonable with the new space. So congratulations on all the success, and thank you for stepping up to the co-chair role, I really appreciate it. >> Well, let me tell you I thank you guys. You provide a voice at these IT conferences that we really need, and that is the ability to get the message out. That people do think and care, the industry is not thoughtless and heartless. With all the data breaches and everything going on there's a lot of fear, fear, loathing, and anticipation. But having your voice, kind of like ESPN and a sports show, gives the technology community, which is getting larger and larger by the day, a voice and we need that so, thank you. >> Well thank you, Robert. We appreciate that, it was great to have you on. Appreciate the time. >> Great to be here, thank you. >> All right, and thank you for watching. We'll be right back with out next guest as we wrap up day two of MIT CDOIQ. You're watching theCUBE. (futuristic music)

>> from the Silicon Angle Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts. It's the cue. Here's your host. Still Minutemen. >> Hi, I'm Stew Minutemen. And welcome to a special cute conversation here in our Boston Areas studio where in spring 2019 whole lot of shows where the cubes gonna be on going to lots of events so many different technologies were covering on one of the areas we always love to be able to dig into is what's happening with the users. Many of these shows, we go to our user conferences as well as the community. Really happy to Boca Burger. Believe first time on the program. Steve Methodists famous. Who is the newly elected president of the mug s. So I think most of Ronan should know the V mug organization to the VM where User group. We've done cube events at, you know, the most related events. Absolute talked about the mug we've had, you know, the CEO of the mug on the program. And of course, the VM were Community 2019 will be the 10th year of the Cube at VM World. Still figuring out if we should do a party and stuff like that. We know all the ins and outs of what happened at that show. But you know the V mugs itself? I've attended many. Your Boston V mug is one that I've been, too. But before we get into the mug stuff, Steve could just give us a little bit of your back, because you are. You're practicing your user yourself. >> Yeah, well, first thanks for having me. You know what? I've been watching the cube for years, and it's ah, it's great to be on this side of the of the screen, right? So, yes. So I'm Steve. I think I, you know, show up every day as the associate chief information officer of the University of Massachusetts. Little just for 95 here, and that's my day job. That's my career, right? But what? You know what? I'm excited to be here to talk about what I'm excited in general with the mug is it's a community organization. And so it's a volunteer gig, and that's true of all of our leadership, right? So the from the president of the board of directors to our local leaders around the world, they're all volunteers, and that's I think, what makes it special is We're doing this because we're excited about it. We're passionate about it. >> Yeah, you know the mugs, It's, you know, created by users for user's. You go to them, talk a little bit. It's evolved a lot, you know, It started as just a bunch of independent little events. Is now you know, my Twitter feed. I feel like constantly every day. It's like, Oh, wait, who is at the St Louis? The Wisconsin one? I'll get like ads for like, it's like a weight is the Northeast one. I'm like, Oh, is that here in New England that I don't know about? No, no, no. It's in the UK on things like that. So I get ads and friends around the world and I love seeing the community. So, boy, how do you guys keep it all straight? Man, is that allow both the organic nature as well as some of the coordination and understanding of what's going on. How do you balance that? >> Yeah, that's a great question. And you know, So I was a V mug member for many, many years before I ever got interested in becoming a leader, and you're right it when it started, it was 10 of us would get around with a six pack of beer and a box of pizza, right? And we'd be talking shop and that, you know, that was awesome. And that's what would that was, how it started. But you get to a certain scale when you start talking about having 50,000 now, over 125,000 members around the world. You gotta coordinate that somehow you're right on the money with that. And so that's why you know, we have, you know, a strong, um, coordination effort that is our offices down in Nashville, Tennessee, and their their role is to enable our leaders to give back to their community and take the burden out of running these things. You know, sourcing venues and, you know, working with hotels and stuff. That is effort that not everybody wants to do all the time. And so to do that for them lets them focus on the really cool stuff which is the tech and connecting users. >> Yeah. Can you speak a little bit too? You know what were some of the speeds and feed to the event? How many do you have How much growing, you know, Like I'm signed up. I get the newsletter for activities as well as you know, lots of weapons. I've spoken on some of the webinars too. >> Yeah, well, first thanks for that s o. We have over 30 user cons around the world on three continents. >> In fact, what's the user cough? >> Great questions. So user kind is user conference, you know, consolidated into user Connery. And those are hundreds of end users getting together around the world were on three continents. In fact, I was fortunate enough in March, I went to Australia and I spoke at Sydney and Melbourne on That was awesome, getting to meet users literally, almost a sw far away from Boston. As you can get having the same challenges in the office day today, solving the same business problems with technology. So that was exciting. And so we've got those all over. We also have local meetings which are, you know, smaller in scope and often more focused on content. We've got 235 or Maur local chapters around the world. They're talking about this, and so we're really engaged at multiple levels with this and like you talk about. We have the online events which are global in scope. And we do those, you know, we time so that people in our time zone here in the States could get to them as well as folks in, you know, e m b A and a factory. >> Yeah, and I have to imagine the attendees have to vary. I mean, is it primarily for, you know, Sylvie, um, where admin is the primary title there up to, you know, people that are CEOs or one of the CEOs? >> Yes. So that actually we've seen that change over the past couple years, which is exciting for me being in the role that I'm in is you're right historically was vey Sphere admits, right? And we're all getting together. We're talking about how do we partition our lungs appropriately, right? And now it has switched. We see a lot more architect titles. We Seymour director titles coming in because, you know, I said the other day I was in Charlotte talking and I said, You know, business is being written in code, right? And so there's a lot more emphasis on what it's happening with V m wearing his VM worth portfolio expands. We've got a lot of new type of members coming into the group, which is exciting. >> Yeah, And what about the contents out? How much of it is user generated content versus VM were content and then, you know, I understand sponsorships or part of it vendors. The vendor ecosystem, which vm where has a robust ecosystem? Yes, you know, help make sure that it's financially viable for things to happen and as well as participate in the contest. >> Yes, I feel like I almost planted that question because it's such a good one. So, you know, in 2018 we started putting a strong emphasis on community content because we were, you know, we heard from remembers that awesome VM were content, awesome partner content. But we're starting to miss some of the user to user from the trenches, battle war stories, right? And so we put an emphasis on getting that back in and 2018 we've doubled down in 2019 in a big way, so if you've been to a user kind yet in 2019 but we've limited the number of sponsors sessions that we have, right so that we have more room for community content. We're actually able to get people from around the world to these events. So again, me and a couple folks from the States went toe Australia to share our story and then user story, right? And at the end of the day, we used to have sponsored sessions to sort of close it out. Now we have a community, our right, and Sophie Mug provides food and beverages and a chance to get together a network. And so that is a great community. Our and you know, I was at one recently and I was able to watch Ah, couple folks get to them. We're talking about different problems. They're having this and let me get your card so we can touch base on this later, which at the end of the day, that's what gets me motivated. That's what >> it's about. It's Steve. I won't touch on that for a second. You know what? Get you motivated. You've been doing this for years. You're, you know, putting your time in your president. I know. When I attended your Boston V mark the end of the day, it was a good community member talking about career and got some real good, you know, somebody we both know and it really gets you pumped up in something very, a little bit different from there. So talk a little bit without kind of your goals. For a CZ president of Emma, >> Sure eso I get excited about Vima because it's a community organization, right? And because, you know, I've said this a bunch of times. But for me, what excites me is it's a community of people with similar interests growing together right and reinforcing each other. I know for a fact that I can call ah whole bunch of people around the world and say, Hey, I'm having a problem technically or hey, I'm looking for some career advice or hey, one of my buddies is looking for work. Do you know of any opening somewhere? And that's really powerful, right? Because of the end of the day, I think the mug is about names and people and not logos, right? And so that's what it motivates me is seeing the change and the transformation of people and their career growth that V mug can provide. In fact, I know ah ton of people from Boston. In fact, several of them have. You know, they were administrators at a local organization. Maybe they moved into partners. Maybe they moved into vendors. Maybe they stay where they are, and they kept accelerating their growth. But I've seen tons of career growth and that that gets me excited watching people take the next step to be ableto to build a >> career, I tell you, most conferences, I go to the kind of jobs take boards, especially if you're kind of in the hot, cool new space they're all trying to hire. But especially when you go to a local on the smaller events, it's so much about the networking and the people. When I go to a local user, event it. Hey, what kind of jobs you hiring for who you're looking for and who do I know that's looking for those kind of things and trying to help connect? You know, people in cos cause I mean, you know, we all sometime in our career, you know we'll need help alone those lines that I have, something that's personally that you know, I always love to help >> you. I have a friend who said it. I think best, and I can't take credit for this, right? But it's It can be easy to get dismissed from your day job, right? One errant click could be the career limiting click. It is nigh impossible to be fired from the community, right? And that that, to me, is a powerful differentiator for folks that are plugged into a community versus those that are trying to go it >> alone. Yeah, there are some community guidelines that if you don't follow, you might be checking for sure, but no, if if we're there in good faith and we're doing everything like out, tell me it's speaking. You know, this is such, you know, change. Is this the constant in our world? You know, I've been around in the interview long enough. That's like, you know, I remember what the, um where was this tiny little company that had, you know, once a week, they had a barbecue for everybody in the company because they were, like, 100 of them. And, you know, you know, desktop was what they started working on first. And, you know, we also hear stories about when we first heard about the emotion and the like. But, you know, today you know Veum world is so many different aspects. The community is, you know, in many ways fragmented through so many different pieces. What are some of the hot, interesting things? How does seem a deal with the Oh, hey, I want the Aye Aye or the Dev Ops or the you know where where's the vmc cloud versus all these various flavors? How do you balance all that out? All these different pieces of the community? >> Yeah, it's an interesting question. And to be fair with you, I think that's an area that were still getting better at. And we're still adapting to write. You know, if you look at V mug Five years ago, we were the V's fear, sort of first, last and always right. And now you know, especially is VM. Where's portfolio keeps increasing and they keep moving into new areas. That's new areas for us, too. And so, you know, we've got a big, uh, initiative over the next year to really reach out and and see where we can connect with, you know, the kubernetes environment, right? Cause that the hefty oh acquisition is a really big deal. and I think fundamentally changes or potential community, right? And so you know, we've launched a bunch of special interest groups over the span of the past couple years, and I think that's a big piece of it, which is, if you're really interested in networking and security, here's an area that you can connect in and folks that are like minded. If you're really interested in and user computing, here's what you can connect into. And so I think, you know, as we continue to grow and you know, we're, you know, hundreds of thousands of people now around the world so that you can be a challenge. But I think it's It's also a huge opportunity for us to be ableto keep building that connection with folks and saying, Hey, you know, as you continue to move through your career, it's not always gonna be this. You're right. Change is constant. So hey, what's on the horizon for >> you? When I look at like the field organization for being where boy, I wonder when we're gonna have the sand and NSX user groups just because there's such a strong emphasis on the pieces, the business right now? Yeah, All right, Steve, let's change that for a second. Sure said, You know, you're you got CEO is part of your title, their eyes, what you're doing. Tell me about your life these days and you know the stresses and strains And what what's changing these days and what's exciting? You >> sure? So you know, it's exciting to have moved for my career because I'm an old school admin, right? I mean, that's my background. Uh, so, you know, as I've progressed, you know, I keep getting different things in my portfolio, right? So it started out as I was, you know, I was the admin, and then I was managing the systems engineering team. And then they added desktop support that was out of necessity was like, I'm not really a dustup person, right? So something new you need to learn. But then you start seeing where these synergies are, right? Not to hate, like the words energies. But the reality is that's where we launched our VD. I project at U Mass. Lowell, and that has been transformative for how we deliver education. And it has been a lot of ways. Reduced barriers to students to get access to things they couldn't before. So we had engineering students that would have to go out and finance a 3 $4000 laptop to get the horsepower to do their work. Now, that can use a chromebook, right? They don't have to have that because we do that for them and just they have to have any device t get access via via where horizon. Right, So that happened, and then, you know, then they moved in. Our service is operation, right? So what I'm interested now is how do we deliver applications seamlessly to users to give them the best possible experience without needing to think about it? Because if you and I have been around long enough that it used to be a hassle to figure out okay, I need to get this done. That means they need to get this new applications I have to go to I t there and I have my laptop. Now it's the expectation is just like you and I really want to pull out my phone now and go to the APP store and get it right. So how do we enable that to make it very seamless and remove any friction to people getting their work >> done? Yeah, absolutely. That the enterprise app store is something we've talked about is not just the Amazon marketplace these days. >> In some ways, it is so not all applications rate. Some applications are more specific to platforms. And so that's a challenge, which is, you know, I'm a professor. I really like my iPad. Well, how do I get S P ss on that? Okay, well, let me come up with some solutions. >> Yeah, it's interesting. I'm curious if you have any thoughts just from the education standpoint, how that ties into i t. Personally myself, I think I was in my second job out of school before I realized I was in the i t industry because I studied engineering they didn't teach us about. Oh, well, here's the industry's You're working. I knew tech, and I knew various pieces of it and, you know, was learning networking and all these various pieces there. But, you know, the industry viewpoint as a technology person wasn't something. I spend a lot of time. I was just in a conference this week and they were talking about, you know, some of the machine learning pieces. There was an analyst got up on stage is like here I have a life hack for you, he said. What you need to do is get a summer intern that's been at least a junior in college that studied this stuff, and they can educate you on all these cool new things because those of us have been here a while that there's only tools and they're teaching them at the universities. And therefore that's one of those areas that even if you have years, well, if you need to get that retraining and they can help with that >> no, that's that to me is one of most exciting parts about working in education is that our faculty are constantly pushing us in new directions that we haven't even contemplated yet. So we were buying GPU raise in order to start doing a I. Before I even knew why we were doing and there was like, Hey, I need this and I was like, Are you doing like a quake server? Like they were mining Bitcoins? I don't think so, but it was, you know, that was that was that was an area for us and now we're old. Had it this stuff, right? And so that is a exciting thing to be able to partner with people that are on the bleeding edge of innovation and hear about the work that they're doing and not just in in the tech field, but how technology is enabling Other drew some groundbreaking research in, you know, the life sciences space that the technology is enabling in a way that it wasn't possible before. In fact, I had one faculty member tell me, Geez, maybe six months ago. That said, the laboratory of the past is beakers and Silla scopes, right? The laboratory of the future is how many cores can you get? >> Yeah, all right, So next week is Del Technologies world. So you know the show. The combination of what used to be A M, C World and Del World put together a big show expecting around 15,000 people in Las Vegas to be the 10th year actually of what used to be M. C world. We actually did a bunch of dead worlds together. For me personally, it's like 17 or 18 of the M C world that I've been, too, just because disclaimer former emcee employees. So V mugs there on dhe, Maybe explain. You know, the mugs roll there. What you're looking to accomplish what you get out of a show like that. >> Sure. So V mug is a part of the affiliation of del Technologies user communities. Right? And what I love about user communities is they're not mutually exclusive, right? You absolutely can. Being a converged and Avi mug and a data protection user group. It's all about what fits your needs and what you're doing back in the office. And, you know, we're excited to be there because there's a ton of the move members that are coming to Deltek World, right? And so we're there to support our community and be a resource for them. And that's exciting for us because, you know, Del Del Technologies World is a whole bunch of really cool attack that were that were seeing people run vm were on Ray. We're seeing via more partner with, and so that's exciting for us. >> Yeah, and it's a try. Hadn't realized because, like, I've been to one of the converted user group events before, didn't realize that there was kind of an affiliation between those but makes all the sense in the world. >> Yeah, right. And it's, you know, again, it's an open hand thing, right? Beaten and one being the other. You realize them both. For what? They're what They're great at connecting with people that are doing the same thing. There's a ton of people running VM wear on. Ah, myriad. Like you talked about earlier VM Where's partner? Ecosystem is massive, right? But many, many, many in fact, I would say a huge majority of converged folks are running VM we're >> on it. All right. So, Steve want to give you the final word? What's the call to action? Understand? A lot of people in the community, but always looking from or always, ways for people to get involved. So where do they go? What? What would you recommend? >> Yeah, thanks. So if if you are not plugged into user community now, when you're in the tech field, I would strongly encourage you to do so. Right? V mug, obviously, is the one that's closest to my heart, right? If you're in that space, we'd love to have you as part of our community. And it's really easy. Go to V mug. dot com and sign up and see where the next meet up is and go there, right? If you're not into the VM where space and I know you have lots of folks that air, they're doing different things. Go check out your community, right? But I tell you, the career advantages to being in a user community are immense, and I frankly was able to track my career growth from admin to manager to director to associate CEO, right alongside my community involvement. And so it's something I'm passionate about, and I would encourage everybody to check out. >> Yeah, it's Steve. Thank you so much for joining us. Yeah, I give a personal plug on this. There are a lot of communities out there, the virtual ization community, especially the VM. One specifically is, you know, a little bit special from the rest. You know, I've seen it's not the only one, but is definitely Maur of. It's definitely welcoming. They're always looking for feedback, and it's a good collaborative environment. I've done surveys in the group that you get way better feedback than I do in certain other sectors in just so many people that are looking to get involved. So it's one that you know, I'm not only interviewing, but, you know, I can personally vouch for its steeple. Thank you. Thank you so much. Always a pleasure to see you. >> Thanks for having me. >> Alright. And be sure to check out the cube dot net. Of course, we've got dealt technologies world in the immediate future. Not that long until we get to the end of summer. And vm World 2019 back in San Francisco, the Q will be there. Double set. So for both del world del Technologies world and VM World. So come find us in Las Vegas. If you're Adele or Mosconi West in the lobby is where will be for the emerald 2019 and lots and lots of other shows. So thank you so much for watching. Thank you.

>> Announcer: Live, from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering Informatica World 2018. Brought to you by Informatica. >> Hello welcome back everyone, we're here for exclusive CUBE coverage here at The Venetian in Las Vegas, day one, getting setup for the exclusive pavilion opening kick-off party, we've been here all day, for two days, I'm John Furrier your host of theCUBE, with Peter Burris, analyst at SiliconANGLE, we keep on theCUBE, our next guest, Board Member of Informatica for 10 years now, CUBE alumni Jerry Held, industry legend, veteran, been there done that, seen all the ways of innovation, Jerry great to see you, thanks for coming on! >> Great to be here, nice to see you guys again! >> Ten years at the board for Informatica, a lot, that's like, how many waves can happen in 10 years, what's been the journey, what's been your view? You're in all the board meetings approving all the, all the hires and stock option grants, and all the action, you see in the front row what's happening, what's the story? >> Well, it's been a great ride, it's an interesting company, I've been on a lot of boards, I've lost count of how many, both startups and then big public company boards, but Informatica's been a really fun ride. When I joined, we're goin' through super growth, my really good friend Sohaib Abbasi was running the place, he had a phenomenal 10 year run, I think 36 quarters of record growth in profit, just unbelievable, took it from an ETL company back when it started, to a full data integration company, kind of went from the first phase of data to the second phase where it was more than just moving data to a data warehouse, but all phases of data integration, and that was terrific, and then we got a point where it was time for another phase, and lot of things were happening, not only in terms of where the company was going, but where the industry was going. >> And what year was that, when that happened? >> So that was about two and a half, three years ago, when we decided that the best route was actually to go private, because some of the transitions were going to be pretty profound, for instance, just the model of selling software going from license to subscription, requires a dip in revenue, it requires restructuring your field, a lot of changes. >> John: A lot of product work? >> Yeah, yeah, so, we did go very successfully, we went private, and I don't know for some reason, they asked me to stay on the board through that transition, (John and Peter laughing) >> and it's been interesting being on the private side, now that it's a private company, it's run differently, we have some great private equity firms who are the investors, owners of the company, the board makeup is completely different, and we have a lot of people with a financial look at the company, but they're growth investors, they're some PE firms, that come in, and take a company apart, just try to get the most they can out of it. Luckily the investors that we've found believed in the future of the company, it's a growth company, it just needed to go through some restructuring. We're also really fortunate, when Sohaib decided it's time to retire, to promote Anil to be the CEO, and he's turned out to be fantastic, and we've had a number of changes really bringing in some fresh blood, new people into positions, really strengthen the team, and in the last couple years of Sohaib's tenure, he put a real focus on innovation, because we had gone down a path of requiring a number of pieces, putting them all together, but the innovation had sort of slowed down, well he started the process, and it really picked up speed through this transition, so the company has come out with a series of really new, innovative, products. So now, Informatica's like one of the hottest pre-IPO companies in the industry, if you think about enterprise software companies, >> Yeah, and we talk, I mean we've been here, watchin' from three, four years ago, we talked to Anil before he was the CEO, and he was doing the products, they brought in some product people, and they did the work, they buckled down. Okay, so I got to step back, before we came, before you came on, you and I were talking about waves, and you've seen waves, the relational database wave, and our comment was, people tend to poo-poo them, well that's never going to happen, eh, it's never going to happen. So I got to ask you, take us through what the wave is right now, what're you excited about because certainly, there's no doubt that commerce on this scalable cloud has opened up a new, kind of a new aperture, if you will, of opportunity, and it's impacting everybody, data is not just a category, it's fundamental in the fabric of this next big wave, what is your vision of this wave, what's exciting you? Take us through that. >> Well as we were saying, I've been in this data management business for 50 years now, so I've seen a lot of waves, 'about every 10 years you get a big wave, and I was there back at the birth of the relational database client server, and web, and cloud, and SaaS, and all these, each one, when they start, people poof--ooh, it's very cool, but, never take off, and there's a lot of people who miss great opportunities at the beginning of a wave, now we're clearly well into the cloud wave, as I think most people realize it's for real, and there's a lot happening. The one that I'm most excited about right now is in what I would call, you know we've had DBMS, Database Management Systems, I'll make up a new term right here, I've never used this before, so this is a first on your show >> John: Exclusive. >> Instead of DBMS, how about DAMS, Data Asset Management System? That's what we need. We have got such a proliferation of data, relational databases, no sequel databases, hadoop databases, we've got structured, unstructured, text, image, every kind of data, but it's proliferating at an amazing rate, right, we've got all kinds of types of data, sources of data, users of data, people now want to use data, not just the IT people but end-users, but it's out of control. We have this asset, and everybody talks about it, you can see here at these session, what's going to transform your business? Data, data disruption. But it's out of control. Nobody knows where the data is. Ask the CFO where all the financial assets, they can show you the spreadsheets, they can show you the reports, ask the Chief Information Officer, Chief Data Officer, they can't tell you. So what we need to do is manage the data asset, and how are we going to do that? As far as I'm concerned the single-most exciting thing coming out of Informatica, and there's a lot of exciting things at this conference, far-and-away to me the most exciting thing Enterprise Data Catalog. That is a Data Asset Management System, it allows you to look across every type of data in the enterprise, on-prem, in the cloud, all kinds of data, and get your hands around it, and you need to do it for two big reasons. One: Risk reduction, and two is: Reward enhancement, in other words, you have a way to reduce risk, improve governance, and, where you can just look at the news everyday, Facebook, GDPR, which is coming-- >> Friday. >> this week, this week is very timely, Europe is way ahead of us here, they're forcing companies to get their act together, but how do you do it? You need to get your act together on managing the data asset it's not managing the actual data, it's managing the metadata, where is the data, who has access to it, what's the security, how many copies do you have, how many different views of a customer do you have that are inconsistent? The way you need to do that is through an enterprise data catalog, and Informatica has a super exciting product, the most exciting products in the 10 years I've been on the board, this is the single most exciting product the company's come out with. >> Sounds like your bullish on this one, so we'll put that as a check-mark on that one. Let me ask you a question just to kind of take that to the next level. Jerry, what is this order of magnitude impact, in your opinion, obviously it's a big wave, can you kind of just give us a perspective, waves have multi-year lives, sometimes 10 plus years, Pat Gelsinger, former intel, would always talks about waves, sometimes they're 10, 20 year waves, what is the impact of this one, specifically around the catalog, what's it going to impact, order of magnitude, share your color commentary on how you see it shaping out. >> Well it's going to have these two huge impacts, let's just talk about on the risk reduction side, on the governance side, I mean, think about the potential impact, to Facebook, of losing control of their data, that company could well get split up. I mean there's a lot of talk about splitting up, how big an impact is that? Pretty damn big, right? >> Pretty big, yeah. >> I mean, it's huge. >> Yeah, billions, trillions. >> Yeah, and those kinds of risks are out there, and they've reached a point where the public, the government, is no longer willing to put up with it. Now think about the rewards side of it, the positive side. If you can get control over your data, and now you're doin' all this great analytics, people create data lakes, you know what's in those data lakes? Most of them are data swamps. They put a lot of data in there, but they don't know what's there. If you could take all that data in the data lakes, plus the stuff you have in the cloud, plus stuff you have other places, and now you want to answer that hard question. Get your analysts to be way more productive. How important is it when you get that insight, how do you measure the business value? I'm sure on your show you've had dozens of people give you a specific instance of oh, look what I did with Tableau, great product, I did all this stuff, and I discovered this, and I changed my business, right? You've had that? >> Oh, insights, come out of the woodwork, everywhere. >> Okay, however, ask the question, How many insights didn't come out, because these analysts didn't know where the data is, they didn't have access to all this data? They did find something, but think about what they could have found if they had a complete view of all the enterprise data, and how it related to all the other data coming from social media and everything. So, what's the value of an enterprise data catalog? I think it's enormous, enormous! >> Peter: But Jerry it's, so I think that's an interesting game, thought experiment, but if I were to combine that with another thing that excites me about what I'm hearing this week, the reality is there aren't enough analysts in the world to find it all. When we start applying machine learning to the process of creating, maintaining, sustaining, the understanding of the data assets, reforming, reforging data assets, ensuring that we are, not dependent on a manual processes in a catalog, it's that combination that makes it possible to actually augment the way that human beings look at these things. Ultimately these types of systems are going to provide options to the business. >> Yeah, and you hit it on an absolutely key point, what does it take to have a great data catalog? There are a number of companies that are trying to do data catalogs, some of 'em are doing small pieces, cataloging bits and pieces of the enterprise, interesting, but the word enterprise is key, you need something that spans the entire enterprise. And when you get that complicated, the human brain can't deal with it, so, you've hit on maybe on the most important points, you must have an enterprise data catalog that's based around a AI, machine learning, at least tool assistant. You're going to still have people that are going to be curating, you're going to have people that are going to be adding glossaries and all kinds of things, but at the core, there's so much data that you need to take the machine learning technology that's moving along quite quickly, and try to figure out what are all these relationships? That is at a core component of it. >> So we talked, so I want to throw this at you, you tell me if you agree with me. What that comes down to is, if everybody talks about AI, you talked about it earlier, taking jobs away, doing the work, increasingly I think we're going to look at AI as a technology that provides humans options, better forged, better formulated, well structured options, based on data, and that increasingly the thing about creating data value is, is your system creating new classes of options for pursuing the value of data, and this combination thing, AI, augmenting, by presenting options to human decision makers so that they can look at all that range, all those possible vectors that they could be pursuing, and choose the ones that are most attractive. >> Yeah I think there's two things-- >> Does that make sense? >> So there's two parts to it, one: you're exactly right, you can augment and give choices, but before it does that, it can eliminate a massive amount of just grunge work, most analysts, this is a well documented fact, most analysts spend 80% of their time in data prep, and 20% in analysis, that's pretty well industry standard right now, if you're doin' better than that you're doin' great. And what you can do, if you do the right form of cataloging get the data organized and then you use things like MDM, and data quality to cleanse it. Now you get to the point where the analyst is doing analysis and they're doing things, number one: That are more interesting, number two: That are more productive, and number three: That are going to have a bigger effect on your bottom line. >> Peter: Right, right. >> Let's talk about the role of data when it comes to IOT Edge for instance, in the cloud, okay this is now, 'cause of the scale, you mentioned the scale with AI, that helps with the scale of data coming in, you got that, now a customer's looking at an architectural shift with cloud, multi-cloud, and IOT whether it's Edge, or whatever that's defined as. How does the cataloging and the data vision you put forth, impacted by that, accelerates it, does it change it radically for the buyer, the user, the enterprise, how does that enterprise customer think about--? >> Well, it's another important source, so we have all these different sources of data, and a growing source is going to be IOT data, and if it's streaming in, going in to some repository, it needs to be cataloged, and correlated, with the rest of the data in your enterprise. Right now, a lot of IOT data is just going into some system off to the side, not correlated with the mainstream data. The thing that, I think is the big shift, when you go from DBMS, Database Management System, we're focused typically on a single data, whether it's IOT data, or it could be accounting data, the focus was on just that data, the difference with Data Asset Management System is think about your data as a whole, across your whole enterprise. >> A portfolio. >> The whole, the whole of your data asset, how do you manage that, it's not the bits and bytes, it's the overall thing, it's not the actual data, it's actually the metadata that you're managing. >> Or it's the data as it's being used, and the metadata describes data that's being used, so data, like anything else, you apply it to work, it generates value. Metadata describes how it's being applied, and then the underlying data elements are given context and semantic richness by the metadata. >> Jerry: Exactly, exactly. >> Alright so here, I'll throw out the old, if I'm Joe six-pack out in the street, I hear catalog, I go whoa! >> Yeah, he's talkin' about this stuff all the time! (chuckles) >> I go whoa, catalog? In my mind I get a mental model of a centralized database, I think hacker! 'Cause you know, government and all the hacks goin' on, you know, decentralized data's probably better, distributed data? So I hear catalog, my mind goes centralized, is that the right way to think about it, or obviously, I mean share, because security's critical on this. >> Absolutely, and so as you bring this view of data, just like when you have your financial books, where you have a central view of all your financial assets, there needs to be security, you have to have, allow access for people for the appropriate level of information that they're going to pull out, the data asset is no different. So you want to have a full view of all of your data, and you want to have ways to allow and restrict access to the information, it's not the data, it's just where is the data, and each of the data systems have secondary-- >> So it's not centralized, it's just metadata for visibility and auditing-- >> I think there's an important point, and I want to test this on you, 'cause you're askin' a great question. The information model from IBM, we used to, we've had catalogs with databases, we've had catalogs all over the place, highly stylized processes, stylized data, stuck in a catalog. One of the things that's especially interesting, is not the idea that we're going to start with a whole bunch of designs and put them in the catalog, but we're going to discover stuff about our data, and the catalog will emerge out of the attributes of data, and how it's working and how it's being used. >> If you, let's rewind back-- >> John: So the answer is no not centralized? >> Well, but it's not-- >> Peter: The metadata may be so much centralized, but the data's not. >> It's not a, we're not trying to do a centrally-designed architecture, so let's rewind 50 years, and go back to the beginning of relational databases, we had schemas, and back in the '70s, people were talkin' about, oh, let's come up with the schema for the corporation, we'll have one group go off, and they'll design everything: failed. Then they had data dictionaries where they were going to put it all in place: failed. And all of these things, where there was an attempt to centrally define and control the structure of data around the enterprise: failed. That is not what we're talking about. Data exists in all forms, with all sorts of schemas and definitions, and all types of databases in Oracle and SAP, and everything all we're doing is taking the metadata and relating it-- >> Peter: Allowing it to merge! >> So that we have a view of where everything is, that data's different than this data, it's managed by different software, but we have one view so that now, when an analyst wants to know how do I get the latest information on customer preferences for purchasing this? I can go here, here, and here, and I'll correlate those, and I'll pull 'em together with some tool. >> Final question, final question for you. If you think that to next level, you're implying, or actually saying, that philosophy of a catalog, implies that it's okay to have a zillion databases, I might have a post-risk database on this application, I might have an unstructured database over here, so in the future world, where we're living in a tsunami of data, apps need databases. So the idea of-- >> And they got to be different. >> And they're going to be a zillion, yeah, a lot of different databases proliferating is not a bad thing under your model. >> Absolutely, and we've tried having one answer, it doesn't work. And even if you ever could get a company, a large company you can't do it, but if you get a company that'd get one form, then they do an acquisition, and now they got other forms. That concept just doesn't work, it has to be a heterogeneous world, and you have to have a way to pull the pieces together, and that's why, just as a final point, I think what Informatica has done with this data enterprise data catalog, which is a phenomenal product, still early days, but growing at a phenomenal rate, fastest growth of any product ever. You need a company that's independent, that's not a stack company, it's not an Oracle or an SAP, it's not a cloud company, or an AWS, or an Azure, or Google, it's not a SaaS company, it's somebody who is the Switzerland of data, who can take data from every place, and just collect that metadata, and it has to be a company that understands machine learning and AI, that can use it to pull it together. >> And they got to work with the clouds too, they got to work with all the clouds. >> And it has to be a company that has interfaces to everything, which is what Informatica is, so it's a perfect fit. >> And it's not going to try to then use that to exact significant control over how everything operates. >> Exactly, and it's not trying to sell you an application, or a database, so, you need that Switzerland, and I think that's why, to me, in the 10 years that I've been on the board, I haven't seen a more exciting product, nor have I seen a customer reaction as dramatic as this, every customer's talking about EDC, and if they haven't before this conference, they will after this conference. (laughs) >> And the timing is critical on this too, talk about timing, the tailwinds for this movement right now, more than ever, sometimes timing is-- >> This week is a, I mean GDPR is a big deal, a big deal, >> It's a signal. >> And what's goin' on with Facebook and others is a big deal so, the timing is appropriate, and the product is fantastic, and I think it's going to be, when we look back next year, and we do this show. >> (laughing) That's great, we have nine years of history, you go back and say hey, 'member you said that? Right? Data is the central strategic asset not some corner case, GDPR is a signal, it's a shot across the bow, for all companies to get in the center. We coined the new term Database Asset Management System. >> No Data Asset Management System. >> Data Asset Management System. >> And we actually have research on that from a couple years ago. >> Okay, well we here, exclusive on theCUBE here, Data Asset Management System, asset is data, it's going to be worth money, it's going to be on the balance sheet soon. theCUBE is here, out in the open, Informatica World 2018. Jerry Held, Board Member, bringing his insight, thank you for sharing the data on theCUBE, we'll be back with more, stay with us, after this short break. (bubbly music)

>> Announcer: From New York, it's theCUBE covering Blockchain Week. Now here's John Furrier. >> Hello everyone, welcome back. I'm John Furrier, the host of theCUBE. We're here in New York City for on the ground coverage for three days, wall-to-wall for Blockchain Week, New York's part of Consensus 2018. Sold out show, we're out in the open. Open (mumbles) to all the cons here. Next guest is Alex Mashinsky, Founder and CEO of Celsius. Seasoned entrepreneur, great debater on stage, great brawl recently at the Milk Institute. We'll talk about that. But more importantly, he's got a great project called Celsius, welcome to theCUBE. Thanks. >> Thanks for having us, John. >> So, I love we just chatted before the camera turned on about some of the things you've done. You've gotten into a little bit of a great heated panel discussion. With someone who actually doesn't even hold cryptocurrency. He's saying it's all bullshit. >> Yes >> Right, so tell about the story. It was written up by Bloomberg, what was this famous brawl in the Milk Institute? >> Yeah, so the Milk Institute, they've been having conferences for the last 25 years and they're trying to combine the making money with doing good in the world, right? So, it's doing well and doing good at the same time. And that's what crypto is all about, right? And so, they had a panel about crypto with me and Nouriel Roubini, who's like Doctor Doom who predicted the last 15 recessions. There were only two, but they were predicted all 15 of them. So, I was telling him, even a broken clock is right twice a day, you know? He was going at me, he was going at the community, he was calling it a scam. And when you don't own any coin and you have not come to an event like this and seen 8,000 people celebrate this innovation, power to the people, then what are you talking about? So, I was there to really defend the community. It wasn't about me or him. >> Yeah, you did a good job. Well, thank you for doing that. Also, you're on a great project. I've been talking about a lot of other things I want to get to in the industry that you have a view and opinion on I would like to get. But your project Celsius. Take a minute to explain that, because I think this highlights really what's going on. I chatted earlier today about token economics. This is a new way, a new infrastructure, a new capability, a new mechanism that's really becoming powerful, of a network effect. >> Yes. >> So, the old world was DNS. 30 years-old stack on ecommerce, search engines, they're not accurate for network effects, a new dynamic, new data source is happening and it's creating new value, new data. >> Yes. >> Talk about Celsius the project and your value proposition. >> Right, so Celsius Network is basically trying to create an algorithmic cloud-based solution that does everything in your best interest. So, you have to think of it as a basket of financial services that do simple things like give you a loan or allow you to earn interest, give you access to a lot of great financial products, insurance and other things, that altogether do everything in your best interest. And what we're doing is we're enabling 100 million new people to come into the cryptocommunity and enabling them to benefit from all these things both for the increase in the value of the coins but also allowing their money to earn money for them. And today, if you think about banks, right? They take your money, right? You make a deposit, they take your money, they'll lend it to me on my credit card, they charge me 25%, they give you 1%. So, they take all that margin that you talked about. They squeeze all of that and keep it to themselves. >> And they're representing two people. It's like a realtor, who do you represent, the buyer or the seller? >> They're a toll collector in the middle, exactly. They're not adding any value. >> So, the new shift is on user value-- >> Exactly. >> And you see real-world examples of this. The whole Facebook debacle, who owns your data, and Mark Zuckerberg was testifying in front of the Senate in Congress, saying, "No, we don't sell your data." But they license the data and they use it. >> They extract all the value from it. >> They don't actually sell the data, true. But they license the shit out of it, to target you. >> They squeeze every last penny out of it. >> This is now obvious to people. >> Yes. >> That problem. >> Yes. >> Talk about the cryptobenefits, where is this shift happening, users, the power to the people, I get the phrase, but where is it happening? The token level-- >> So for example, Yeah, let's take an example, so most of the people here on this floor, they take their coins, they put them in exchanges, they celebrate the fact that the coin went up 50, 100% or whatever, but they don't realize that they leaving a lot of money on the table, because these exchanges do shorting, front-running, all kind of other stuff that should be illegal, but they do it, so they announce these amazing earnings, Binance announced amazing earnings and a lot of that earnings comes from the money that should be given back to you and me. So, if you think about the credit card company giving you two percent back, this is kind of the same thing. We are basically taking all of that earnings and giving it back to the coin-holders and we're saying, "Don't keep your money on exchanges, keep your money in a wallet that represents your best interest." It extracts all that value and gives it back to you. >> And so, what's your value proposition? You know what, you should say, "Use our wallet, use our system." >> Right. >> And then you represent their currency? >> So, we huddle together, we create a giant pool of BTC, a giant pool of ETH, or other coins, and we lend against that. So, we can do loans to the community, we charge nine percent for asset-backed loans, basically, so you need a loan against your crypto. This way you don't have to pay taxes, you can defer your tax, you can get liquidity without triggering all the tax that today you have to-- or you can just earn interest. So, without selling the coins, you can basically generate five to nine percent income that's continuous on top of that appreciation, you still get all the appreciation of the coin, but you're also generating income. >> So, you can bring contextual services around the crypto-holder interest. >> Yeah, so we find people willing to pay that. For example, other crypto-holders who want a loan, and they pay us nine percent, we give five percent to the community. Hedge funds who short BTC or ETH, they pay us ten or 15%, we give most of it back to the community. But the beauty is that the coin-holder doesn't have to do anything. They don't have to move from this account to that account. They don't do transactions. All they have to do is decide if Celsius Network is doing everything in their best interest or not. And the point is is that the next 100 million people that are going to join crypto, they're not speculators or anarchists or libertarians like most of the people here on the floor. They're people who kind of look at all this, saying, "It's too complicated, I don't know what to do, I'm not going to get in at the right time, I'm not going to get out at the right time." They don't have anyone they can trust. >> So, I'm going to be able to ask the Average Joe six-pack question, "Hey that's all fine, I love what you're doing. Come on, sign me up. But wait a minute. If you put all this crypto in one spot, the frickin' hackers are going to get it. >> Right. >> Because, how do you protect me against-- I heard, see, Mt. Gox was in the-- and all this stuff's going on, I'm worried that it's going to get hacked. Even wherever I put it." >> Exactly. And then Nouriel basically asked me the same question. So, in 10 years since BitCoin was created, there hasn't been a single instance of anyone cracking the blockchain itself. All the theft, everything that happened was because we gave somebody our private key and we entrusted them with it, and they screwed up. Mt. Gox, it basically broke into the exchange and so on. So, we keep everything in cold storage. And it's not ours, we have a custodian that is a giant company that is willing to accept all that, keep it in cold storage and we lend against it. We lend against the pull. >> So the private key's going in cold storage? >> Everything is staying in cold storage, which is the safest way to keep your crypto. It's much safer than keeping it on an exchange or keeping it in a different place. >> And it's all through--it's encryption, it's never safe to--a private key's a private key. Right, I mean, we've seen this before. >> Exactly. >> It's not rocket science. >> But even if you keep it in your home, in your safe, that's not as safe as putting it in a facility that is resistant to nuclear attack and has four layers of security and no human can get into the last room. It's a physical connection. >> I've heard this problem, just estate planning, someone dies, where's his cryptokey? >> Exactly. >> Unlocking, say 30 to 100 million dollars' worth of crypto. >> Exactly. >> It's not obvious. Well, the guy was smart, he put it in lock boxes all around the country. Wait a minute, no one knows where they are. >> But as a custodian, if you show us that you are the ultimate heir and you have the legal representation, then we can handle it, right? We can transfer that. But really, you're protecting it against a hacker coming in and stealing it from you. All the legal ramifications still apply. >> So, let's talk about the industry. What do you like about the industry right now, and what do you think that needs more work on, faster, or behavior-wise, what's your general temperature-taking of the current community? A lot of back-end work being done. Some complaints I heard about the demos, where some people say the front end was pretty sucky. >> Yes. >> But I think that's because a lot of back end work's being done. >> Well, this reminds me of 95 through 2000, I wrote some of the original Void protocols and everybody told me it's not going to work, the Internet is too slow, you can't scale, it's not safe. >> Yeah. >> I hear the same arguments again and again. >> Exactly. >> Today a billion people use Void every day and they don't even know who created it or how it works. I go in a room, I do speeches, right? And I ask, "Who here knows how Void works?" Not a single hand goes up. So, we need to get to the point where blockchain and crypto works the same way, no one needs to understand how it works, they just need to use it and trust it. So, the biggest thing I think holding us up right now is actually not technical. Because there's over 130 different blockchains. And some of them solves the scalability issues and security issues. The problem is is that we kind of have the early adopter phase, but we cannot leapfrog into the mass adoption phase. Because we're still at the early phase of operation. >> Exactly, is this just evolution or is it something specific? >> Well, the applications that we have today are not things that most of the people on the planet can use. That's what I'm saying, like for example, lending and borrowing is much more attractive than trading coins with each other. >> Yeah, it's like the Web, and Web 1.0, I mean-- >> Exactly. >> Search was the first application, and then everyone went to there, check their stock quotes. >> Looking at travel-- >> Travel, buy your car-- >> Exactly. >> Basic Maslow's hierarchy of needs kind of things. >> Yes. >> So, but that was interesting, because it was a whole new way. And by the way, same arguments I heard in the Web. "It's so slow. A mini-computer's so much faster than this AOL thing at 9600 bot modem." But the apples weren't being compared to other apples. It was replacing direct mail where I used to put stamps on envelopes and mail things. >> That's right, look. The bank gives you one percent. We pay five percent. So, that is a very attractive reason to switch from the bank to Celsius. Also, most people don't realize that the power the bank has is because we make all the deposits there. We stop depositing money there, they will have to pay us five percent, because as the money leaves them, they will have to raise the rates, they're going to have to attract you with more interest. So, it's a win-win, the community wins on the crypto side, and we're forcing the banks to do the right thing. >> Alright, I want to get your opinion, Alex, on ICOs. Did you guys do an ICO? How much did you raise? And what's your general take of the ICO market? I mean, certainly, blockchain, I've said this before, takes inefficiencies and makes them highly efficient, and we know the capital markets are very inefficient, so it's a bubble, okay. I have a choice. Tokens or VC, it's a no-brainer, go tokens. >> So look, I've had coins since 2013, I've invested in over 30 ICOs myself, and then when I couldn't find what Celsius does, I decided to start a new company, this is my eighth company as a founder. And so, I raised a billion dollars on the VC side, I know how that world works, had plenty of exits, and here we went to the community, we excluded all the VCs, we did not take money from a single venture guy because this is all about building the community. So, we just closed our round, about a month ago, we raised $15 million. We had 15,000 people sign up, 95% men. And it just drove me crazy, because half of our company's women, I thought that at least half of the people would be female. And I realized how big the problem is that we do not-- I mean, if you look at the floor here, we do not include the stronger sex. So, she's female, exactly. >> I'm promoting it here. >> I agree, I'm a big supporter too, so, I think when you think about it, if we want to be inclusive and we want this revolution to take hold, we have to solve these problems. What is the killer app, where are the female participants, how do we make it global, how do we make it inclusive, and how do we make the user interface and everything else so simple that you don't have to understand anything to use it every day. >> And what's your vision on how the ICOs are going to trend? >> Right. >> More stability, obviously. It'll level out, the bubble will-- I don't think it'll be a massive pop, I think it's going to be a small squeeze, so I think there's enough community involvement that self-governance will kick, in my opinion, but what's your take on the ICO? >> So, we definitely, this is like a Cambrian explosion. So, we are throwing money at everything. So, we're throwing money at good projects, bad projects, it's like a spray-and-pray mentality of the old days in 95 to 2000, we've seen that before. But from this some great companies are going to be born and I think the winners here are going to be bigger than Google, bigger than Apple, because the market is bigger. Money is the biggest market in the world, right? There's nothing bigger than all the money in the world, by definition. So, it's bigger than advertising, it's bigger than the social networks and it's bigger than Apple and whatever they're making. So, I believe that out of these companies, there are several thousand companies here, 8,000 participants, there were 4,000 ICOs that already took place or that are coming to be and out of that you're going to have your giant winners. And obviously Celsius is hoping to be one of them, but it's whoever builds the biggest community is the one that's going to win. And for us, it's all about giving back everything to the community. >> Your mission is awesome, I love your mission, and I love your expertise, love your experience. I think the community really is great to have you being a champion, being a mentor, I know you're doing a lot of paying it forward, great job. What's your view for the young entrepreneur out there, or someone who's got a growing opportunity that says, "Hey, you know what? I'm actually tailor-made for decentralization, I have a network community, network effect, I have all these great things going on, I want to scale." >> That's a great question because-- >> What's the playbook? >> A lot of people come to me and say, Oh, I'm too late to the game." No one is too late to the game. The experts have a six month experience. So, you talk to most of the people here, this is the first event, this is the first show. So, what I say to a lot of entrepreneurs is that if you pick the right vertical, you can very quickly become the best in the world at it. And I think the first phase of evolution here in the blockchain is all about financial products and financial solutions. I wouldn't go after healthcare, I wouldn't go after-- so like, insurance, or solving financial problems that currently have giant toll collectors who collect all the value, like the banks, or like the financial service providers, the insurance and so on. So, if you can solve those areas, you can scale very quickly, because Interen already has six or seven billion people on it, so now you can just bring them all in and haggle on their behalf in the cryptocommunity. >> I feel like I should lie down on the couch and ask Dr. Alex for some more advice. So, I'm actually going to ask you some specific questions. >> No couch here, man! There's no off switch here. >> I'll pass out, so much action going on. I mean, the vibe here is amazing. So, theCUBE, we're doing an open token model, got a great community, we want to grow and be number one at digital media, covering events with a network effect, video and media. We see token as a great opportunity. What's your advice? You're on our advisory team, what do you tell us to do? >> So, the curation is excellent, I think you guys do a great job at pulling the content. And what's missing in this community is really an automated process that kind of asks the community, "What do you guys believe in?" It's very hard for most people here to figure out which ones of these thousands of projects are trending right now, for example. And we can all vote on our app, for example. If you could create an app that allowed all of us to vote during the show, on what's trending and you had those guys being interviewed instead of me, you would have the killer apps. All of us know what they are and are not, but we should vote on it. >> So, use collective intelligence of the data-- >> Yes. >> And make a content operating system-- >> Exactly, use your metadata that you're already producing to do real-time input and bring those guys here, interview them and ask them about why their projects are hot. Celsius, people ask me all the time, "How do I get involved? How do I get involved? I saw you on Rubena, I saw you on this show." And so, we manage to create a lot of buzz around us and there are a few other projects like that, the community needs to get around the good projects and support them, because when we spend a lot of money on bad projects, we're not giving enough support to the good projects. >> You got to close loop that data, make it a community brand. That's what you're doing, that's what we're trying to do here, covering the events. So, we're going to build a content operating system. >> There we go! >> Run-time assembly, whatever the votes-- >> Let everybody vote in real-time, yes. >> Give me 50 times I see the hashtag-- >> Right, and the size of the name grows based on the adoption. >> You would have to have, like, clips instantly available, you would have to have all the metadata-- >> It's all real-time. >> You'd have to have all that stuff available. >> And the community will post it for you, you just do the final interviews, just bring these guys and say, "Okay, you won number one, number two, number three, and you give them the awards. >> Awesome, I love this conversation, even though we're kind of riffing, having fun. But the point of it is-- >> It's a new start-up let's do an ICO. >> Let's do an ICO, we can (mumbles) with that. No, but this is really fundamental for the entrepreneurs at the tech culture, we're talking about basically dev ops. >> Yes. >> Using cloud computing, we can have unlimited-- >> You can spin it up in a few days. >> You can apply automation, AI, that's your point, trust the software. >> Yes. If you're doing it for the community, they will recognize it and adopt you very quickly. >> They'll apply a human curation layer on top of it. >> With full transparency, you've got to show that you're doing everything for the community, like what we're trying to do, right? We're showing, when we tell you you're going to earn 5.1%, you can dig in and see who's getting paid and why they're getting this much money, what's the allocation, every token that's being given to anyone, all the math behind it is fully transparent, right? >> Final question-- >> Try to ask the bank for that. See what they're saying. >> Transparency? Go find another bank. Final question, your summary of the show. What's your take, was it good? Good vibes? What was the content agenda? What was the most exciting thing you saw, what's your summary of Consensus 2018? >> So, Consensus, when they organized it, they were bragging that 4,000 people are going to show up, and that's why they moved to the Hilton from the Marriott. And then 8,000 people show up, the lines were outside the whole hotel, so it proves that the demand is there. Everybody wants to come and learn about it, they want to know why this is so hot, why this revolution is here to stay, so what I'm taking out of the show is that this innovation is just in its infancy and there's a lot of people who are still yet to join. And the best ideas, the winners, have not yet been decided. So, watch out for all those new ideas that we haven't heard about yet. >> And it's accelerated from other trends. >> Yes, it definitely accelerated. >> Alex Mashinsky, CEO of Celsius, former entrepreneur of multiple startups. See, he knows the old way, he sees the new way, he's been a successful entrepreneur, seasoned community member. Thanks for coming on, we appreciate it. >> Thanks for having us. I appreciate it. >> I'm John Furrier here with theCUBE on the ground out in the open, in the community, CUBE coverage here, Blockchain Week 2018 New York. Thanks for watching. (electronic-based music)

(energetic electronic music) >> Narrator: Live, from Nassau, in the Bahamas it's theCUBE covering POLYCON18. Brought to you by, Polymath. (attendees chatting indistinctly) >> Crew Member: So, go, we're live. >> Okay, we're live, welcome back! This is day two of our exclusive CUBE coverage of the Bahamas' POLYCON18 It's a security token conference. It's where the world of cryptocurrency, Blockchain, Bitcoin and everything comes together around powering a new value economy. A new kind of decentralized internet. This is the biggest wave that I've seen in my lifetime. It's really bigger than all the other waves, combined. I'm here with Dave Vellante. We have two days of wall-to-wall coverage. And the bottom line is, Dave, we are seeing historic, massive, wealth creation. We're seeing crypto-billionaires here. I mean, people are new money, they're old money and a massive new landscape is emerging. And the tell-sign of this is, institutional money is coming in, real professionals are coming in. It's moving from a culture of Burning Man and cult of the personalities to real industry formation. You see that with companies coming out with real commercial opportunities. You're seeing ecosystems developing, and you're starting to see biz dev. And it's been probably at least a couple decades since I've gone to a conference where this kind of computer-industry movement is happening where the players are doing deals in the hallways. You're hearing people having substantive conversations around how they can work together to create tons of value. This is a dynamic that is absolutely happening. And we're seeing a lot of wealth involved, from people who have made tons of money, billions of dollars in Bitcoin, to kind of, new migration coming into the sector from Wall Street, from other global markets. We're seeing a sea change of democratizing, with an open-source ethos. To me, this is something that we've never seen before. It has all the elements of the modernization, business model modernizations, technology modernizations, real, disruptive, enabling, technology at the heart of it. And some people ask questions like, "How do we make money?" Bottom line is, there is money being made. How and with who, is the real question. So Dave, day one's over. We were out 'til one in the morning last night, working the hallways, having great conversations. I probably talked to at least six whales as they're called, billionaires in the business, and the vibe is the same. We're here to play the long game, we love this market. There's a culture of ethos, of partnership, and openness, and unwritten rules, and tons of activity. Sure there's bad actors! But there's a lot of great players here, and they are starting to crack down on behavior that's not right, because this is a funding dynamic. It's a funding growth companies dynamic. It's a liquidity dynamic. All these things, classic, business model modernization, happening with a massive wave, your take. >> So, let's share with our audience. Well, first of all, this is an investor conference. It's the first conference built around the topic of security tokens. And we can, maybe, explain that in a moment. But, I have, John, I have never seen at an investor conference, which I guess this is, but it's more than that, Blockchain, technology, etc. But, I've never seen such diversity. Like you said, there's new money, there's old money. There's tons of millennials. 100% of the people here are doing deals. >> Yeah. >> And the conversations in the hall, it's all about ICO's, security tokens, utility tokens, protocols, white papers, business models. So, a lot of diversity. Some super smart millennials. Developers that really understand this stuff, and a lot of money. >> And, more women in tech here than I had thought. >> Yeah, I think it's slightly higher proportion. But, you're also seeing, just really interesting, you're seeing VC's who aren't going to sit back and wait and get disintermediated. You're seeing developers who have made a ton of dough, that are now sprinkling the wealth. You're seeing private equity, you're seeing hedge funds. You're seeing, like I say, traditional VC's, new types of VC's. And, very importantly, you're seeing a major diversity in cultural impact, nationalities. And this is a heavily Canadian show, because the organizers of POLYCON, the folks who started Ethereum. But, a lot of diversity in terms of where people are coming from. It's not just U.S. based, you know, MBA's-- >> Silicon Valley. >> Yeah. >> I mean, the game's changing. The other thing I observed is, we're seeing validation of my premise, a couple weeks ago when I was in Washington D.C. with Theresa Carlson, the most powerful woman in D.C. She's also the chief, and head of, Amazon Web Services' global public sector. Is that the global national stage, the nation building, the digital nation transformation, is part of it. Two, the validation that societal change and entrepreneurship, that was used to be involved in non-profits that never went anywhere, you know, these philanthropy projects. Social entrepreneurship, or societal entrepreneurship, as I call it, is absolutely real. And, in this culture, you're seeing people with Bitcoin, and crypto-currencies funding mission based activities. Now, the younger demographics, I think, lean towards that. That's pretty clear in our reporting and our data. That the younger generation wants to work for companies and communities that have an ethos of mission base. But, mission base is not about changing the world, it's about saving the world. And, this is real, you're looking at Blockchain ventures that track water supply. You're looking at Blockchain ventures that track, you know, food supply. You're looking at solving world hunger kind of challenges. And I think the tell here is, Blockchain is used to identify markets and incumbents, or opportunities where there's idle resource. So, whether that's using compute in a P2P way or solving the world hunger problem, anywhere there's an opportunity to be efficient, Blockchain is being used to solve those problems. And, the creative talent is the technology providers. This is a completely new dynamic. One that Silicon Valley pays lip service to. 'Cause they don't actually do societal change. They say they do, but, they build apps and platforms. So, I think this is a nuanced, but an important game changer for the industry, and the global economy and global entrepreneurship, because you can do things now that can be global impact based investing, and technology investing, in one shot. So, you get a double down effect for change. This is not just cloud computing, have more power, faster, better apps, more monetization. Sure, but now you have over the top, impact to users. The community dynamic, and the societal change is very, very real. That's a big driver of this ecosystem in terms of market selection, human capital, technology, leverage, and now financial. So, it is pretty intoxicating here. People are geared up, they're energized, and it's just pretty phenomenal. >> So, many people in our audience are still probably saying, I just don't get it. So, let's go back to 2008 when Satoshi, whoever that person was, writes this, I think it was an eight page white paper. And, remember what 2008 was like, banks were blowing up, too big to fail, the economic system was melting down, and guess who paid for it? The taxpayers. So, some libertarian minded people said, screw that, we're going to change the world. We're going to create a virtual currency and we're going to take back what the government is taking from us. Essentially, okay. So, that started people like, what, I don't really get it. That has formed a whole new, and people often say, it's not about Bitcoin, it's about Blockchain. Blockchain is building out this whole new internet. And we've talked about that all week. But, what you're seeing now is this concept of a value store a virtual value store, and people leveraging that in so many different ways to build out this new internet. And, they're building protocols, they're building apps, they're building new capabilities that we haven't seen before. That brings state to the internet, a state of communications. Now, let's talk about the investor profiles that we see here. I want to start with developers. So, developers built the internet, and most of them didn't really get paid huge money. Here, many of the developers are like multi, multi-millionaires flying in on private jets. Okay, so why? Because they've developed a new token that they, basically, invested in with their sweat and their money, and the price has gone through the roof. Bitcoin, Ethereum, etc., VC's. VC's, you know, they elbowed out, well they're elbowing their way back in. Private equity, hedge funds, big money. And there's two paths there, one is, guys that read white papers, real hard core technical guys who say, I'm going to invest in just this infrastructure token, utility token. Other guys who say, You know what, I've got big money, I don't really understand the technology, but, I'm going to sprinkle my money around and try to get a big hit. You got angels, you got entrepreneurs, you got superstars that have become billionaires, that are mission based. All these, and here's the thing John, and I want you to sort of explain this to the audience. You have these investor ecosystems forming. It's like the PayPal Mafia, and they're basically buying up all the tokens early, elbowing other people out. You know, one investor told us, We're fighting steel with steel. Steel beats steel, you have to form, it's like Survivor Baha Mar, right? And they're forming groups, and they're eyeing each other, attacking opportunities, elbowing each out, and it's really interesting. >> I mean, it's happening, big time. And, this is healthy, I think, in my mind. Emerging ecosystems have this behavior. The early days of Silicon Valley was very much the same. And it became very much war, now in Silicon Valley. See, people don't syndicate deals as much as they used to. Some are and some aren't, but the notion of teamwork has always been part of Silicon Valley. The old saying is, venture capital is a team sport. That is very much what's going on here. Now, they team up because they have to, but, steel on steel implies art of war. You know, we're going to take more allocations down. That's because the new pro persona of the investor, Dave, is the billionaire developer who captured value from the technology that they built, not someone else, not some central organization, they're the players. Developers, and or the actors who were making money in the early days of Bitcoin, cryptocurrency and Blockchain actually are also starting funds themselves. So, that is a new dynamic. We've never seen that before, where you see a wealthy developer become rich and then also start investing at the same time. You have a smarter investor there, but they're doing it in packs and herds. You have a tribe mentality and people are starting to recognize that, okay, this group here loves Burning Man, this group here is more commercial oriented, this group here, like Polychain is much more technical, and BlockTower's much more Goldman Sachs like. So, you're starting to see the formation of categorical roles in the ecosystem. This is very healthy. Now, in the short term there's some jockeying, right? So, you're starting to see people syndicate together. You buy my coin, I'll buy your coin. So, there's a healthy, robust equilibrium going on where the market of insiders is very much the story. The insiders of this industry are the players. They are the ones, not just building the technology, they're funding technology, they're also recruiting, the talent issue, human capital role, mission based. These are all new dynamics. This is going to be a hard nut to crack if you're an incumbent, venture capitalist, or hedge fund, trying to walk into this ecosystem, throw your weight around and compete on a frontal basis, money for money, steel on steel, if you don't play by the rules of engagement that's emerging. Such as, open source communities, unwritten rules, certain kinds of syndications, eliminating bad behavior. This is a dynamic that's real, and you'll either win or lose if you're an investor, win or lose if you're an entrepreneur if you don't recognize that, kind of, big picture. So, you get down and dirty, you got to pull back and say, okay, what's going on, how do I engage? This is where the true money making is going on. >> That's great analysis, John. You mentioned the word dynamics several times. The other underpinning dynamic is, we are going to take control of our own destinies. I've heard things all week like, I might move out of the U.S. Ya know. (laughs) Do you have a bank account overseas? (laughs) >> Estonia's looking good right now. >> Right, because I'm going to move to a place that's more friendly to this kind of concept. And the U.S. is anti-competitive. And this is the ethos of this community, We are going to control our own destiny. And we're going to go live in places and work in places that are friendly. >> This, to me, is perfect capitalism at work. You know, some would criticize Barack Obama or other folks that might have more of a socialistic bent around having government do redistribution of wealth. This is actually an example where I see redistribution of wealth going on in a capitalistic way. Where the enabling technology, Blockchain, and or new business models with cryptocurrency, which is money, basically open sourced money, as Miko Matsumura would say, and that is the dynamic. That is actually creating real value and redistribution of wealth. And the premise of Blockchain and cryptocurrency, although Bill Tighe pointed out, investor, and leader in the area, money's a concept, right? A dollar's a dollar, it has money value because it's a concept. But, if you look at things like what we learned in business school, the value chain of a organization, value chain, Blockchain, cryptocurrency money, is that this redistribution of wealth is going on in context to redefining business, redefining how people work. And again, I said earlier, the human capital component is very much a real dynamic, it's not just machines taking over the world. Some poopoo AI, some poopoo all this technology, but, human capital, a big force in this market. And, it is a big issue, and you got to learn protocols. We're all developers. So, again, zoom out, opportunity is right there. I think I'm long on this sector. I'm long on this game because the actors are going to self organize, Steel on steel turns into handshakes, or, steel on steel in the right areas, eliminating bad actors. FCC makes some regulations, that's only in the U.S. What about the opportunities for digital nations to say, hey, we're going to be the Wall Street of crypto. There are country opportunities right now where whoever builds that system, taking in crypto, converting it to fiat, will win everything. It's like, I'm surprised no one's done that yet. >> Yeah >> This is coming. >> I can't tell you what the price of Bitcoin is in August, but I agree with you, longterm, there's no question in my mind that this is going to be a key contributor to the digital economy. The build out of the next internet. Remember the fundamentals, you got Bitcoin, it's essentially, you know, a virtual Fort Knox. You got Ethereum, which is a horizontal infrastructure that's much more easily programmed by developers. And then you've got a zillion other protocols and tokens. I want to talk about risk factors. Like what could blow this up, what have we heard? Tax exposure, all these people, all these Bitcoin millionaires and billionaires that think, I don't have to pay taxes, well, guess what? (laughs) You do have to pay taxes. And so, one theory is that's why the price has moderated lately, 'cause people are saying, Wow, it's like I exercised the option, but I don't have cash to pay my taxes. 'Cause we saw a pullback recently. Regulation's the other one we heard. Too much regulation could put some brakes on the momentum here, your thoughts. >> Talent, talent. >> Yep, skill sets, and developer talent, right? >> Yeah, well, the top talent, in the protocol area is going to be at a premium. This is a global issue, so, you know, the old days when cloud, old days, when cloud computing came around, full stack developers were all the rage. Now protocol developers are all the rage. So, if you're a full stack developer and a protocol developer, you can have a lot of leverage. So, the danger, in my opinion is the job hopping nature of some of these ICO's. Hey, I made a bunch of dough on this ICO, they paid me in Ether and or Bitcoin whatever, I'm off to the next one and make a couple million bucks there, and move on to the next one. And so the job hopping factor for top talent is an issue. We heard that loud and clear. The tax thing, I'm bullish on Bitcoin, post April 16th. I think, buy Bitcoin right now and look for it to pop in April. Because I think people are going to realize, Oh shit, I should have sold some and had a tax carry over. >> Well, be careful, be careful. They might have to sell more to meet their tax bill. They might be holding on for a little bit, but I don't know. >> File the extension. (laughs) But anyway, I love the opportun-- >> No, you owe your taxes on the date. Extension doesn't remove you from paying the taxes. >> Yeah, but the issue Dave, is, that what's a scam and what's not a scam? So, you know, if you ask Joe Six Pack on the street, throw crypto and Bitcoin, it's a scam. There's a lot of stuff going on. This industry is absolutely, acutely aware of that dynamic. The risk on the wealth creation opportunity. They know it, so they're creating mechanisms to kind of weed that out. You're seeing PR firms having internal, called, in baseball and in sports it's like, clubhouse issues. There's a clubhouse issue going on in this industry. And they're going to take it amongst themselves. And I think that is going to be the tell sign if this ecosystem succeeds or not. >> Do you think there's more scams, or less scams going on there? >> There'll be less scams because, obviously there's too much money to be made right now. >> Right, and in terms of the percentage of the activity that's going on, in my opinion, the smallest percentages is the scams. The challenge is, anyone could be a scam so you have to sort that out, you got to do-- >> Due diligence. >> As always, you got to do homework. >> Alright, well, day two Dave, we're going to drill into. We got a great line up of guests. We'll be talking to investors, entrepreneurs, some whales coming on, we're going to get their opinion on the future of this market. What's the liquidity, how do you get paid? Who's making the money? How is the value that's being created ultimately captured? And, who's going to get that value? It's theCUBE coverage, from the Bahamas, exclusive coverage of the cryptocurrency, tokenization, here at POLYCON18. We'll be right back. (electronic music)