>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is "Breaking Analysis" with Dave Vellante. >> Recent conversations with IT decision makers show a stark contrast between exiting 2023 versus the mindset when we were leaving 2022. CIOs are generally funding new initiatives by pushing off or cutting lower priority items, while security efforts are still being funded. Those that enable business initiatives that generate revenue or taking priority over cleaning up legacy technical debt. The bottom line is, for the moment, at least, the mindset is not cut everything, rather, it's put a pause on cleaning up legacy hairballs and fund monetization. Hello, and welcome to this week's Wikibon Cube Insights powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis, we tap recent discussions from two primary sources, year-end ETR roundtables with IT decision makers, and CUBE conversations with data, cloud, and IT architecture practitioners. The sources of data for this breaking analysis come from the following areas. Eric Bradley's recent ETR year end panel featured a financial services DevOps and SRE manager, a CSO in a large hospitality firm, a director of IT for a big tech company, the head of IT infrastructure for a financial firm, and a CTO for global travel enterprise, and for our upcoming Supercloud2 conference on January 17th, which you can register free by the way, at supercloud.world, we've had CUBE conversations with data and cloud practitioners, specifically, heads of data in retail and financial services, a cloud architect and a biotech firm, the director of cloud and data at a large media firm, and the director of engineering at a financial services company. Now we've curated commentary from these sources and now we share them with you today as anecdotal evidence supporting what we've been reporting on in the marketplace for these last couple of quarters. On this program, we've likened the economy to the slingshot effect when you're driving, when you're cruising along at full speed on the highway, and suddenly you see red brake lights up ahead, so, you tap your own brakes and then you speed up again, and traffic is moving along at full speed, so, you think nothing of it, and then, all of a sudden, the same thing happens. You slow down to a crawl and you start wondering, "What the heck is happening?" And you become a lot more cautious about the rate of acceleration when you start moving again. Well, that's the trend in IT spend right now. Back in June, we reported that despite the macro headwinds, CIOs were still expecting 6% to 7% spending growth for 2022. Now that was down from 8%, which we reported at the beginning of 2022. That was before Ukraine, and Fed tightening, but given those two factors, you know that that seemed pretty robust, but throughout the fall, we began reporting consistently declining expectations where CIOs are now saying Q4 will come in at around 3% growth relative to last year, and they're expecting, or should we say hoping that it pops back up in 2023 to 4% to 5%. The recent ETR panelists, when they heard this, are saying based on their businesses and discussions with their peers, they could see low single digit growth for 2023, so, 1%, 2%, 3%, so, this sort of slingshotting, or sometimes we call it a seesaw economy, has caught everyone off guard. Amazon is a good example of this, and there are others, but Amazon entered the pandemic with around 800,000 employees. It doubled that workforce during the pandemic. Now, right before Thanksgiving in 2022, Amazon announced that it was laying off 10,000 employees, and, Jassy, the CEO of Amazon, just last week announced that number is now going to grow to 18,000. Now look, this is a rounding error at Amazon from a headcount standpoint and their headcount remains far above 2019 levels. Its stock price, however, does not and it's back down to 2019 levels. The point is that visibility is very poor right now and it's reflected in that uncertainty. We've seen a lot of layoffs, obviously, the stock market's choppy, et cetera. Now importantly, not everything is on hold, and this downturn is different from previous tech pullbacks in that the speed at which new initiatives can be rolled out is much greater thanks to the cloud, and if you can show a fast return, you're going to get funding. Organizations are pausing on the cleanup of technical debt, unless it's driving fast business value. They're holding off on modernization projects. Those business enablement initiatives are still getting funded. CIOs are finding the money by consolidating redundant vendors, and they're stealing from other pockets of budget, so, it's not surprising that cybersecurity remains the number one technology priority in 2023. We've been reporting that for quite some time now. It's specifically cloud, cloud native security container and API security. That's where all the action is, because there's still holes to plug from that forced march to digital that occurred during COVID. Cloud migration, kind of showing here on number two on this chart, still a high priority, while optimizing cloud spend is definitely a strategy that organizations are taking to cut costs. It's behind consolidating redundant vendors by a long shot. There's very little evidence that cloud repatriation, i.e., moving workloads back on prem is a major cost cutting trend. The data just doesn't show it. What is a trend is getting more real time with analytics, so, companies can do faster and more accurate customer targeting, and they're really prioritizing that, obviously, in this down economy. Real time, we sometimes lose it, what's real time? Real time, we sometimes define as before you lose the customer. Now in the hiring front, customers tell us they're still having a hard time finding qualified site reliability engineers, SREs, Kubernetes expertise, and deep analytics pros. These job markets remain very tight. Let's stay with security for just a moment. We said many times that, prior to COVID, zero trust was this undefined buzzword, and the joke, of course, is, if you ask three people, "What is zero trust?" You're going to get three different answers, but the truth is that virtually every security company that was resisting taking a position on zero trust in an attempt to avoid... They didn't want to get caught up in the buzzword vortex, but they're now really being forced to go there by CISOs, so, there are some good quotes here on cyber that we want to share that came out of the recent conversations that we cited up front. The first one, "Zero trust is the highest ROI, because it enables business transformation." In other words, if I can have good security, I can move fast, it's not a blocker anymore. Second quote here, "ZTA," zero trust architecture, "Is more than securing the perimeter. It encompasses strong authentication and multiple identity layers. It requires taking a software approach to security instead of a hardware focus." The next one, "I'd love to have a security data lake that I could apply to asset management, vulnerability management, incident management, incident response, and all aspects for my security team. I see huge promise in that space," and the last one, I see NLP, natural language processing, as the foundation for email security, so, instead of searching for IP addresses, you can now read emails at light speed and identify phishing threats, so, look at, this is a small snapshot of the mindset around security, but I'll add, when you talk to the likes of CrowdStrike, and Zscaler, and Okta, and Palo Alto Networks, and many other security firms, they're listening to these narratives around zero trust. I'm confident they're working hard on skating to this puck, if you will. A good example is this idea of a security data lake and using analytics to improve security. We're hearing a lot about that. We're hearing architectures, there's acquisitions in that regard, and so, that's becoming real, and there are many other examples, because data is at the heart of digital business. This is the next area that we want to talk about. It's obvious that data, as a topic, gets a lot of mind share amongst practitioners, but getting data right is still really hard. It's a challenge for most organizations to get ROI and expected return out of data. Most companies still put data at the periphery of their businesses. It's not at the core. Data lives within silos or different business units, different clouds, it's on-prem, and increasingly it's at the edge, and it seems like the problem is getting worse before it gets better, so, here are some instructive comments from our recent conversations. The first one, "We're publishing events onto Kafka, having those events be processed by Dataproc." Dataproc is a Google managed service to run Hadoop, and Spark, and Flank, and Presto, and a bunch of other open source tools. We're putting them into the appropriate storage models within Google, and then normalize the data into BigQuery, and only then can you take advantage of tools like ThoughtSpot, so, here's a company like ThoughtSpot, and they're all about simplifying data, democratizing data, but to get there, you have to go through some pretty complex processes, so, this is a good example. All right, another comment. "In order to use Google's AI tools, we have to put the data into BigQuery. They haven't integrated in the way AWS and Snowflake have with SageMaker. Moving the data is too expensive, time consuming, and risky," so, I'll just say this, sharing data is a killer super cloud use case, and firms like Snowflake are on top of it, but it's still not pretty across clouds, and Google's posture seems to be, "We're going to let our database product competitiveness drive the strategy first, and the ecosystem is going to take a backseat." Now, in a way, I get it, owning the database is critical, and Google doesn't want to capitulate on that front. Look, BigQuery is really good and competitive, but you can't help but roll your eyes when a CEO stands up, and look, I'm not calling out Thomas Kurian, every CEO does this, and talks about how important their customers are, and they'll do whatever is right by the customer, so, look, I'm telling you, I'm rolling my eyes on that. Now let me also comment, AWS has figured this out. They're killing it in database. If you take Redshift for example, it's still growing, as is Aurora, really fast growing services and other data stores, but AWS realizes it can make more money in the long-term partnering with the Snowflakes and Databricks of the world, and other ecosystem vendors versus sub optimizing their relationships with partners and customers in order to sell more of their own homegrown tools. I get it. It's hard not to feature your own product. IBM chose OS/2 over Windows, and tried for years to popularize it. It failed. Lotus, go back way back to Lotus 1, 2, and 3, they refused to run on Windows when it first came out. They were running on DEC VAX. Many of you young people in the United States have never even heard of DEC VAX. IBM wanted to run every everything only in its cloud, the same with Oracle, originally. VMware, as you might recall, tried to build its own cloud, but, eventually, when the market speaks and reveals what seems to be obvious to analysts, years before, the vendors come around, they face reality, and they stop wasting money, fighting a losing battle. "The trend is your friend," as the saying goes. All right, last pull quote on data, "The hardest part is transformations, moving traditional Informatica, Teradata, or Oracle infrastructure to something more modern and real time, and that's why people still run apps in COBOL. In IT, we rarely get rid of stuff, rather we add on another coat of paint until the wood rots out or the roof is going to cave in. All right, the last key finding we want to highlight is going to bring us back to the cloud repatriation myth. Followers of this program know it's a real sore spot with us. We've heard the stories about repatriation, we've read the thoughtful articles from VCs on the subject, we've been whispered to by vendors that you should investigate this trend. It's really happening, but the data simply doesn't support it. Here's the question that was posed to these practitioners. If you had unlimited budget and the economy miraculously flipped, what initiatives would you tackle first? Where would you really lean into? The first answer, "I'd rip out legacy on-prem infrastructure and move to the cloud even faster," so, the thing here is, look, maybe renting infrastructure is more expensive than owning, maybe, but if I can optimize my rental with better utilization, turn off compute, use things like serverless, get on a steeper and higher performance over time, and lower cost Silicon curve with things like Graviton, tap best of breed tools in AI, and other areas that make my business more competitive. Move faster, fail faster, experiment more quickly, and cheaply, what's that worth? Even the most hard-o CFOs understand the business benefits far outweigh the possible added cost per gigabyte, and, again, I stress "possible." Okay, other interesting comments from practitioners. "I'd hire 50 more data engineers and accelerate our real-time data capabilities to better target customers." Real-time is becoming a thing. AI is being injected into data and apps to make faster decisions, perhaps, with less or even no human involvement. That's on the rise. Next quote, "I'd like to focus on resolving the concerns around cloud data compliance," so, again, despite the risks of data being spread out in different clouds, organizations realize cloud is a given, and they want to find ways to make it work better, not move away from it. The same thing in the next one, "I would automate the data analytics pipeline and focus on a safer way to share data across the states without moving it," and, finally, "The way I'm addressing complexity is to standardize on a single cloud." MonoCloud is actually a thing. We're hearing this more and more. Yes, my company has multiple clouds, but in my group, we've standardized on a single cloud to simplify things, and this is a somewhat dangerous trend, because it's creating even more silos and it's an opportunity that needs to be addressed, and that's why we've been talking so much about supercloud is a cross-cloud, unifying, architectural framework, or, perhaps, it's a platform. In fact, that's a question that we will be exploring later this month at Supercloud2 live from our Palo Alto Studios. Is supercloud an architecture or is it a platform? And in this program, we're featuring technologists, analysts, practitioners to explore the intersection between data and cloud and the future of cloud computing, so, you don't want to miss this opportunity. Go to supercloud.world. You can register for free and participate in the event directly. All right, thanks for listening. That's a wrap. I'd like to thank Alex Myerson, who's on production and manages our podcast, Ken Schiffman as well, Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight, they helped get the word out on social media, and in our newsletters, and Rob Hof is our editor-in-chief over at siliconangle.com. He does some great editing. Thank you, all. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcasts wherever you listen. All you've got to do is search "breaking analysis podcasts." I publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com where you can email me directly at david.vellante@siliconangle.com or DM me, @Dante, or comment on our LinkedIn posts. By all means, check out etr.ai. They get the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. We'll be doing our annual predictions post in a few weeks, once the data comes out from the January survey. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching, everybody, and we'll see you next time on "Breaking Analysis." (upbeat music)

>>Good morning fellow nerds and welcome back to AWS Reinvent. We are live from the show floor here in Las Vegas, Nevada. My name is Savannah Peterson, joined with my fabulous co-host John Furrier. Day two keynotes are rolling. >>Yeah. What do you thinking this? This is the day where everything comes, so the core gets popped off the bottle, all the announcements start flowing out tomorrow. You hear machine learning from swee lot more in depth around AI probably. And then developers with Verner Vos, the CTO who wrote the seminal paper in in early two thousands around web service that becames. So again, just another great year of next level cloud. Big discussion of data in the keynote bulk of the time was talking about data and business intelligence, business transformation easier. Is that what people want? They want the easy button and we're gonna talk a lot about that in this segment. I'm really looking forward to this interview. >>Easy button. We all want the >>Easy, we want the easy button. >>I love that you brought up champagne. It really feels like a champagne moment for the AWS community as a whole. Being here on the floor feels a bit like the before times. I don't want to jinx it. Our next guest, Scott Castle, from Si Sense. Thank you so much for joining us. How are you feeling? How's the show for you going so far? Oh, >>This is exciting. It's really great to see the changes that are coming in aws. It's great to see the, the excitement and the activity around how we can do so much more with data, with compute, with visualization, with reporting. It's fun. >>It is very fun. I just got a note. I think you have the coolest last name of anyone we've had on the show so far, castle. Oh, thank you. I'm here for it. I'm sure no one's ever said that before, but I'm so just in case our audience isn't familiar, tell us about >>Soy Sense is an embedded analytics platform. So we're used to take the queries and the analysis that you can power off of Aurora and Redshift and everything else and bring it to the end user in the applications they already know how to use. So it's all about embedding insights into tools. >>Embedded has been a, a real theme. Nobody wants to, it's I, I keep using the analogy of multiple tabs. Nobody wants to have to leave where they are. They want it all to come in there. Yep. Now this space is older than I think everyone at this table bis been around since 1958. Yep. How do you see Siente playing a role in the evolution there of we're in a different generation of analytics? >>Yeah, I mean, BI started, as you said, 58 with Peter Lu's paper that he wrote for IBM kind of get became popular in the late eighties and early nineties. And that was Gen one bi, that was Cognos and Business Objects and Lotus 1 23 think like green and black screen days. And the way things worked back then is if you ran a business and you wanted to get insights about that business, you went to it with a big check in your hand and said, Hey, can I have a report? And they'd come back and here's a report. And it wasn't quite right. You'd go back and cycle, cycle, cycle and eventually you'd get something. And it wasn't great. It wasn't all that accurate, but it's what we had. And then that whole thing changed in about two, 2004 when self-service BI became a thing. And the whole idea was instead of going to it with a big check in your hand, how about you make your own charts? >>And that was totally transformative. Everybody started doing this and it was great. And it was all built on semantic modeling and having very fast databases and data warehouses. Here's the problem, the tools to get to those insights needed to serve both business users like you and me and also power users who could do a lot more complex analysis and transformation. And as the tools got more complicated, the barrier to entry for everyday users got higher and higher and higher to the point where now you look, look at Gartner and Forester and IDC this year. They're all reporting in the same statistic. Between 10 and 20% of knowledge workers have learned business intelligence and everybody else is just waiting in line for a data analyst or a BI analyst to get a report for them. And that's why the focus on embedded is suddenly showing up so strong because little startups have been putting analytics into their products. People are seeing, oh my, this doesn't have to be hard. It can be easy, it can be intuitive, it can be native. Well why don't I have that for my whole business? So suddenly there's a lot of focus on how do we embed analytics seamlessly? How do we embed the investments people make in machine learning in data science? How do we bring those back to the users who can actually operationalize that? Yeah. And that's what Tysons does. Yeah. >>Yeah. It's interesting. Savannah, you know, data processing used to be what the IT department used to be called back in the day data processing. Now data processing is what everyone wants to do. There's a ton of data we got, we saw the keynote this morning at Adam Lesky. There was almost a standing of vision, big applause for his announcement around ML powered forecasting with Quick Site Cube. My point is people want automation. They want to have this embedded semantic layer in where they are not having all the process of ETL or all the muck that goes on with aligning the data. All this like a lot of stuff that goes on. How do you make it easier? >>Well, to be honest, I, I would argue that they don't want that. I think they, they think they want that, cuz that feels easier. But what users actually want is they want the insight, right? When they are about to make a decision. If you have a, you have an ML powered forecast, Andy Sense has had that built in for years, now you have an ML powered forecast. You don't need it two weeks before or a week after in a report somewhere. You need it when you're about to decide do I hire more salespeople or do I put a hundred grand into a marketing program? It's putting that insight at the point of decision that's important. And you don't wanna be waiting to dig through a lot of infrastructure to find it. You just want it when you need it. What's >>The alternative from a time standpoint? So real time insight, which is what you're saying. Yep. What's the alternative? If they don't have that, what's >>The alternative? Is what we are currently seeing in the market. You hire a bunch of BI analysts and data analysts to do the work for you and you hire enough that your business users can ask questions and get answers in a timely fashion. And by the way, if you're paying attention, there's not enough data analysts in the whole world to do that. Good luck. I am >>Time to get it. I really empathize with when I, I used to work for a 3D printing startup and I can, I have just, I mean, I would call it PTSD flashbacks of standing behind our BI guy with my list of queries and things that I wanted to learn more about our e-commerce platform in our, in our marketplace and community. And it would take weeks and I mean this was only in 2012. We're not talking 1958 here. We're talking, we're talking, well, a decade in, in startup years is, is a hundred years in the rest of the world life. But I think it's really interesting. So talk to us a little bit about infused and composable analytics. Sure. And how does this relate to embedded? Yeah. >>So embedded analytics for a long time was I want to take a dashboard I built in a BI environment. I wanna lift it and shift it into some other application so it's close to the user and that is the right direction to go. But going back to that statistic about how, hey, 10 to 20% of users know how to do something with that dashboard. Well how do you reach the rest of users? Yeah. When you think about breaking that up and making it more personalized so that instead of getting a dashboard embedded in a tool, you get individual insights, you get data visualizations, you get controls, maybe it's not even actually a visualization at all. Maybe it's just a query result that influences the ordering of a list. So like if you're a csm, you have a list of accounts in your book of business, you wanna rank those by who's priorities the most likely to churn. >>Yeah. You get that. How do you get that most likely to churn? You get it from your BI system. So how, but then the question is, how do I insert that back into the application that CSM is using? So that's what we talk about when we talk about Infusion. And SI started the infusion term about two years ago and now it's being used everywhere. We see it in marketing from Click and Tableau and from Looker just recently did a whole launch on infusion. The idea is you break this up into very small digestible pieces. You put those pieces into user experiences where they're relevant and when you need them. And to do that, you need a set of APIs, SDKs, to program it. But you also need a lot of very solid building blocks so that you're not building this from scratch, you're, you're assembling it from big pieces. >>And so what we do aty sense is we've got machine learning built in. We have an LQ built in. We have a whole bunch of AI powered features, including a knowledge graph that helps users find what else they need to know. And we, we provide those to our customers as building blocks so that they can put those into their own products, make them look and feel native and get that experience. In fact, one of the things that was most interesting this last couple of couple of quarters is that we built a technology demo. We integrated SI sensee with Office 365 with Google apps for business with Slack and MS teams. We literally just threw an Nlq box into Excel and now users can go in and say, Hey, which of my sales people in the northwest region are on track to meet their quota? And they just get the table back in Excel. They can build charts of it and PowerPoint. And then when they go to their q do their QBR next week or week after that, they just hit refresh to get live data. It makes it so much more digestible. And that's the whole point of infusion. It's bigger than just, yeah. The iframe based embedding or the JavaScript embedding we used to talk about four or five years >>Ago. APIs are very key. You brought that up. That's gonna be more of the integration piece. How does embedable and composable work as more people start getting on board? It's kind of like a Yeah. A flywheel. Yes. What, how do you guys see that progression? Cause everyone's copying you. We see that, but this is a, this means it's standard. People want this. Yeah. What's next? What's the, what's that next flywheel benefit that you guys coming out with >>Composability, fundamentally, if you read the Gartner analysis, right, they, when they talk about composable, they're talking about building pre-built analytics pieces in different business units for, for different purposes. And being able to plug those together. Think of like containers and services that can, that can talk to each other. You have a composition platform that can pull it into a presentation layer. Well, the presentation layer is where I focus. And so the, so for us, composable means I'm gonna have formulas and queries and widgets and charts and everything else that my, that my end users are gonna wanna say almost minority report style. If I'm not dating myself with that, I can put this card here, I can put that chart here. I can set these filters here and I get my own personalized view. But based on all the investments my organization's made in data and governance and quality so that all that infrastructure is supporting me without me worrying much about it. >>Well that's productivity on the user side. Talk about the software angle development. Yeah. Is your low code, no code? Is there coding involved? APIs are certainly the connective tissue. What's the impact to Yeah, the >>Developer. Oh. So if you were working on a traditional legacy BI platform, it's virtually impossible because this is an architectural thing that you have to be able to do. Every single tool that can make a chart has an API to embed that chart somewhere. But that's not the point. You need the life cycle automation to create models, to modify models, to create new dashboards and charts and queries on the fly. And be able to manage the whole life cycle of that. So that in your composable application, when you say, well I want chart and I want it to go here and I want it to do this and I want it to be filtered this way you can interact with the underlying platform. And most importantly, when you want to use big pieces like, Hey, I wanna forecast revenue for the next six months. You don't want it popping down into Python and writing that yourself. >>You wanna be able to say, okay, here's my forecasting algorithm. Here are the inputs, here's the dimensions, and then go and just put it somewhere for me. And so that's what you get withy sense. And there aren't any other analytics platforms that were built to do that. We were built that way because of our architecture. We're an API first product. But more importantly, most of the legacy BI tools are legacy. They're coming from that desktop single user, self-service, BI environment. And it's a small use case for them to go embedding. And so composable is kind of out of reach without a complete rebuild. Right? But with SI senses, because our bread and butter has always been embedding, it's all architected to be API first. It's integrated for software developers with gi, but it also has all those low code and no code capabilities for business users to do the minority report style thing. And it's assemble endless components into a workable digital workspace application. >>Talk about the strategy with aws. You're here at the ecosystem, you're in the ecosystem, you're leading product and they have a strategy. We know their strategy, they have some stuff, but then the ecosystem goes faster and ends up making a better product in most of the cases. If you compare, I know they'll take me to school on that, but I, that's pretty much what we report on. Mongo's doing a great job. They have databases. So you kind of see this balance. How are you guys playing in the ecosystem? What's the, what's the feedback? What's it like? What's going on? >>AWS is actually really our best partner. And the reason why is because AWS has been clear for many, many years. They build componentry, they build services, they build infrastructure, they build Redshift, they build all these different things, but they need, they need vendors to pull it all together into something usable. And fundamentally, that's what Cient does. I mean, we didn't invent sequel, right? We didn't invent jackal or dle. These are not, these are underlying analytics technologies, but we're taking the bricks out of the briefcase. We're assembling it into something that users can actually deploy for their use cases. And so for us, AWS is perfect because they focus on the hard bits. The the underlying technologies we assemble those make them usable for customers. And we get the distribution. And of course AWS loves that. Cause it drives more compute and it drives more, more consumption. >>How much do they pay you to say that >>Keynote, >>That was a wonderful pitch. That's >>Absolutely, we always say, hey, they got a lot of, they got a lot of great goodness in the cloud, but they're not always the best at the solutions and that they're trying to bring out, and you guys are making these solutions for customers. Yeah. That resonates with what they got with Amazon. For >>Example, we, last year we did a, a technology demo with Comprehend where we put comprehend inside of a semantic model and we would compile it and then send it back to Redshift. And it takes comprehend, which is a very cool service, but you kind of gotta be a coder to use it. >>I've been hear a lot of hype about the semantic layer. What is, what is going on with that >>Semantec layer is what connects the actual data, the tables in your database with how they're connected and what they mean so that a user like you or me who's saying I wanna bar chart with revenue over time can just work with revenue and time. And the semantic layer translates between what we did and what the database knows >>About. So it speaks English and then they converts it to data language. It's >>Exactly >>Right. >>Yeah. It's facilitating the exchange of information. And, and I love this. So I like that you actually talked about it in the beginning, the knowledge map and helping people figure out what they might not know. Yeah. I, I am not a bi analyst by trade and I, I don't always know what's possible to know. Yeah. And I think it's really great that you're doing that education piece. I'm sure, especially working with AWS companies, depending on their scale, that's gotta be a big part of it. How much is the community play a role in your product development? >>It's huge because I'll tell you, one of the challenges in embedding is someone who sees an amazing experience in outreach or in seismic. And to say, I want that. And I want it to be exactly the way my product is built, but I don't wanna learn a lot. And so you, what you want do is you want to have a community of people who have already built things who can help lead the way. And our community, we launched a new version of the SES community in early 2022 and we've seen a 450% growth in the c in that community. And we've gone from an average of one response, >>450%. I just wanna put a little exclamation point on that. Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. We, >>We've tripled our organic activity. So now if you post this Tysons community, it used to be, you'd get one response maybe from us, maybe from from a customer. Now it's up to three. And it's continuing to trend up. So we're, it's >>Amazing how much people are willing to help each other. If you just get in the platform, >>Do it. It's great. I mean, business is so >>Competitive. I think it's time for the, it's time. I think it's time. Instagram challenge. The reels on John. So we have a new thing. We're gonna run by you. Okay. We just call it the bumper sticker for reinvent. Instead of calling it the Instagram reels. If we're gonna do an Instagram reel for 30 seconds, what would be your take on what's going on this year at Reinvent? What you guys are doing? What's the most important story that you would share with folks on Instagram? >>You know, I think it's really what, what's been interesting to me is the, the story with Redshift composable, sorry. No, composable, Redshift Serverless. Yeah. One of the things I've been >>Seeing, we know you're thinking about composable a lot. Yes. Right? It's, it's just, it's in there, it's in your mouth. Yeah. >>So the fact that Redshift Serverless is now kind becoming the defacto standard, it changes something for, for my customers. Cuz one of the challenges with Redshift that I've seen in, in production is if as people use it more, you gotta get more boxes. You have to manage that. The fact that serverless is now available, it's, it's the default means it now people are just seeing Redshift as a very fast, very responsive repository. And that plays right into the story I'm telling cuz I'm telling them it's not that hard to put some analysis on top of things. So for me it's, it's a, maybe it's a narrow Instagram reel, but it's an >>Important one. Yeah. And that makes it better for you because you get to embed that. Yeah. And you get access to better data. Faster data. Yeah. Higher quality, relevant, updated. >>Yep. Awesome. As it goes into that 80% of knowledge workers, they have a consumer great expectation of experience. They're expecting that five ms response time. They're not waiting 2, 3, 4, 5, 10 seconds. They're not trained on theola expectations. And so it's, it matters a lot. >>Final question for you. Five years out from now, if things progress the way they're going with more innovation around data, this front end being very usable, semantic layer kicks in, you got the Lambda and you got serverless kind of coming in, helping out along the way. What's the experience gonna look like for a user? What's it in your mind's eye? What's that user look like? What's their experience? >>I, I think it shifts almost every role in a business towards being a quantitative one. Talking about, Hey, this is what I saw. This is my hypothesis and this is what came out of it. So here's what we should do next. I, I'm really excited to see that sort of scientific method move into more functions in the business. Cuz for decades it's been the domain of a few people like me doing strategy, but now I'm seeing it in CSMs, in support people and sales engineers and line engineers. That's gonna be a big shift. Awesome. >>Thank >>You Scott. Thank you so much. This has been a fantastic session. We wish you the best at si sense. John, always pleasure to share the, the stage with you. Thank you to everybody who's attuning in, tell us your thoughts. We're always eager to hear what, what features have got you most excited. And as you know, we will be live here from Las Vegas at reinvent from the show floor 10 to six all week except for Friday. We'll give you Friday off with John Furrier. My name's Savannah Peterson. We're the cube, the the, the leader in high tech coverage.

from the cube studios in palo alto in boston bringing you data-driven insights from the cube and etr this is breaking analysis with dave vellante you know we've often said that the next 10 years in cloud computing won't be like the last ten cloud has firmly planted its footprint on the other side of the chasm with the momentum of the entire multi-trillion dollar tech business behind it both sellers and buyers are leaning in by adopting cloud technologies and many are building their own value layers on top of cloud in the coming years we expect innovation will continue to coalesce around the three big u.s clouds plus alibaba in apac with the ecosystem building value on top of the hardware saw tooling provided by the hyperscalers now importantly we don't see this as a race to the bottom rather our expectation is that the large public cloud players will continue to take cost out of their platforms through innovation automation and integration while other cloud providers and the ecosystem including traditional companies that buy it mine opportunities in their respective markets as matt baker of dell is fond of saying this is not a zero sum game welcome to this week's wikibon cube insights powered by etr in this breaking analysis we'll update you on our latest projections in the cloud market we'll share some new etr survey data with some surprising nuggets and drill into this the important cloud database landscape first we want to take a look at what people are talking about in cloud and what's been in the recent news with the exception of alibaba all the large cloud players have reported earnings google continues to focus on growth at the expense of its profitability google reported that it's cloud business which includes applications like google workspace grew 45 percent to five and a half billion dollars but it had an operating loss of 890 billion now since thomas curion joined google to run its cloud business google has increased head count in its cloud business from 25 000 25 000 people now it's up to 40 000 in an effort to catch up to the two leaders but playing catch up is expensive now to put this into perspective let's go back to aws's revenue in q1 2018 when the company did 5.4 billion so almost exactly the same size as google's current total cloud business and aws is growing faster at the time at 49 don't forget google includes in its cloud numbers a big chunk of high margin software aws at the time had an operating profit of 1.4 billion that quarter around 26 of its revenues so it was a highly profitable business about as profitable as cisco's overall business which again is a great business this is what happens when you're number three and didn't get your head out of your ads fast enough now in fairness google still gets high marks on the quality of its technology according to corey quinn of the duck bill group amazon and google cloud are what he called neck and neck with regard to reliability with microsoft azure trailing because of significant disruptions in the past these comments were made last week in a bloomberg article despite some recent high-profile outages on aws not surprisingly a microsoft spokesperson said that the company's cloud offers industry-leading reliability and that gives customers payment credits after some outages thank you turning to microsoft and cloud news microsoft's overall cloud business surpassed 22 billion in the december quarter up 32 percent year on year like google microsoft includes application software and sas offerings in its cloud numbers and gives little nuggets of guidance on its azure infrastructure as a service business by the way we estimate that azure comprises about 45 percent of microsoft's overall cloud business which we think hit a 40 billion run rate last quarter microsoft guided in its earning call that recent declines in the azure growth rates will reverse in q1 and that implies sequential growth for azure and finally it was announced that the ftc not the doj will review microsoft's announced 75 billion acquisition of activision blizzard it appears ftc chair lena khan wants to take this one on herself she of course has been very outspoken about the power of big tech companies and in recent a recent cnbc interview suggested that the u.s government's actions were a meaningful contributor back then to curbing microsoft's power in the 90s i personally found that dubious just ask netscape wordperfect novell lotus and spc the maker of harvard presentation graphics how effective the government was in curbing microsoft power generally my take is that the u s government has had a dismal record regulating tech companies most notably ibm and microsoft and it was market forces company hubris complacency and self-inflicted wounds not government intervention these were far more effective than the government now of course if companies are breaking the law they should be punished but the u.s government hasn't been very productive in its actions and the unintended consequences of regulation could be detrimental to the u.s competitiveness in the race with china but i digress lastly in the news amazon announced earnings thursday and the company's value increased by 191 billion dollars on friday that's a record valuation gain for u.s stocks aws amazon's profit engine grew 40 percent year on year for the quarter it closed the year at 62 billion dollars in revenue and at a 71 billion dollar revenue run rate aws is now larger than ibm which without kindrel is at a 67 billion dollar run rate just for context ibm's revenue in 2011 was 107 billion dollars now there's a conversation going on in the media and social that in order to continue this growth and compete with microsoft that aws has to get into the sas business and offer applications we don't think that's the right strategy for amp from for amazon in the near future rather we see them enabling developers to compete in that business finally amazon disclosed that 48 of its top 50 customers are using graviton 2 instances why is this important because aws is well ahead of the competition in custom silicon chips is and is on a price performance curve that is far better than alternatives especially those based on x86 this is one of the reasons why we think this business is not a race to the bottom aws is being followed by google microsoft and alibaba in terms of developing custom silicon and will continue to drive down their internal cost structures and deliver price performance equal to or better than the historical moore's law curves so that's the recent news for the big u.s cloud providers let's now take a look at how the year ended for the big four hyperscalers and look ahead to next year here's a table we've shown this view before it shows the revenue estimates for worldwide is and paths generated by aws microsoft alibaba and google now remember amazon and alibaba they share clean eye ass figures whereas microsoft and alphabet only give us these nuggets that we have to interpret and we correlate those tidbits with other data that we gather we're one of the few outlets that actually attempts to make these apples to apples comparisons there's a company called synergy research there's another firm that does this but i really can't map to their numbers their gcp figures look far too high and azure appears somewhat overestimated and they do include other stuff like hosted private cloud services but it's another data point that you can use okay back to the table we've slightly adjusted our gcp figures down based on interpreting some of alphabet's statements and other survey data only alibaba has yet to announce earnings so we'll stick to a 2021 market size of about 120 billion dollars that's a 41 growth rate relative to 2020 and we expect that figure to increase by 38 percent to 166 billion in 2022 now we'll discuss this a bit later but these four companies have created an opportunity for the ecosystem to build what we're calling super clouds on top of this infrastructure and we're seeing it happen it was increasingly obvious at aws re invent last year and we feel it will pick up momentum in the coming months and years a little bit more on that later now here's a graphical view of the quarterly revenue shares for these four companies notice that aws has reversed its share erosion and is trending up slightly aws has accelerated its growth rate four quarters in a row now it accounted for 52 percent of the big four hyperscaler revenue last year and that figure was nearly 54 in the fourth quarter azure finished the year with 32 percent of the hyper scale revenue in 2021 which dropped to 30 percent in q4 and you can see gcp and alibaba they're neck and neck fighting for the bronze medal by the way in our recent 2022 predictions post we said google cloud platform would surpass alibaba this year but given the recent trimming of our numbers google's got some work to do for that prediction to be correct okay just to put a bow on the wikibon market data let's look at the quarterly growth rates and you'll see the compression trends there this data tracks quarterly revenue growth rates back to 20 q1 2019 and you can see the steady downward trajectory and the reversal that aws experienced in q1 of last year now remember microsoft guided for sequential growth and azure so that orange line should trend back up and given gcp's much smaller and big go to market investments that we talked about we'd like to see an acceleration there as well the thing about aws is just remarkable that it's able to accelerate growth at a 71 billion run rate business and alibaba you know is a bit more opaque and likely still reeling from the crackdown of the chinese government we're admittedly not as close to the china market but we'll continue to watch from afar as that steep decline in growth rate is somewhat of a concern okay let's get into the survey data from etr and to do so we're going to take some time series views on some of the select cloud platforms that are showing spending momentum in the etr data set you know etr uses a metric we talked about this a lot called net score to measure that spending velocity of products and services netscore basically asks customers are you spending more less or the same on a platform and a vendor and then it subtracts the lesses from the moors and that yields a net score this chart shows net score for five cloud platforms going back to january 2020. note in the table that the table we've inserted inside that chart shows the net score and shared n the latter metric indicates the number of mentions in the data set and all the platforms we've listed here show strong presence in the survey that red dotted line at 40 percent that indicates spending is at an elevated level and you can see azure and aws and vmware cloud on aws as well as gcp are all nicely elevated and bounding off their october figures indicating continued cloud momentum overall but the big surprise in these figures is the steady climb and the steep bounce up from oracle which came in just under the 40 mark now one quarter is not necessarily a trend but going back to january 2020 the oracle peaks keep getting higher and higher so we definitely want to keep watching this now here's a look at some of the other cloud platforms in the etr survey the chart here shows the same time series and we've now brought in some of the big hybrid players notably vmware cloud which is vcf and other on-prem solutions red hat openstack which as we've reported in the past is still popular in telcos who want to build their own cloud we're also starting to see hpe with green lake and dell with apex show up more and ibm which years ago acquired soft layer which was really essentially a bare metal hosting company and over the years ibm cobbled together its own public cloud ibm is now racing after hybrid cloud using red hat openshift as the linchpin to that strategy now what this data tells us first of all these platforms they don't have the same presence in the data set as do the previous players vmware is the one possible exception but other than vmware these players don't have the spending velocity shown in the previous chart and most are below the red line hpe and dell are interesting and notable in that they're transitioning their early private cloud businesses to dell gr sorry hpe green lake and dell apex respectively and finally after years of kind of staring at their respective navels in in cloud and milking their legacy on-prem models they're finally building out cloud-like infrastructure for their customers they're leaning into cloud and marketing it in a more sensible and attractive fashion for customers so we would expect these figures are going to bounce around for a little while for those two as they settle into a groove and we'll watch that closely now ibm is in the process of a complete do-over arvin krishna inherited three generations of leadership with a professional services mindset now in the post gerschner gerstner era both sam palmisano and ginny rometty held on far too long to ibm's service heritage and protected the past from the future they missed the cloud opportunity and they forced the acquisition of red hat to position the company for the hybrid cloud remedy tried to shrink to grow but never got there krishna is moving faster and with the kindred spin is promising mid-single-digit growth which would be a welcome change ibm is a lot of work to do and we would expect its net score figures as well to bounce around as customers transition to the future all right let's take a look at all these different players in context these are all the clouds that we just talked about in a two-dimensional view the vertical axis is net score or spending momentum and the horizontal axis is market share or presence or pervasiveness in the data set a couple of call-outs that we'd like to make here first the data confirms what we've been saying what everybody's been saying aws and microsoft stand alone with a huge presence many tens of billions of dollars in revenue yet they are both well above the 40 line and show spending momentum and they're well ahead of gcp on both dimensions second vmware while much smaller is showing legitimate momentum which correlates to its public statements alibaba the alibaba in this survey really doesn't have enough sample to make hardcore conclusions um you can see hpe and dell and ibm you know similarly they got a little bit more presence in the data set but they clearly have some work to do what you're seeing there is their transitioning their legacy install bases oracle's the big surprise look what oracle was in the january survey and how they've shot up recently now we'll see if this this holds up let's posit some possibilities as to why it really starts with the fact that oracle is the king of mission critical apps now if you haven't seen video on twitter you have to check it out it's it's hilarious we're not going to run the video here but the link will be in our post but i'll give you the short version some really creative person they overlaid a data migration narrative on top of this one tooth guy who speaks in spanish gibberish but the setup is he's a pm he's a he's a a project manager at a bank and aws came into the bank this of course all hypothetical and said we can move all your apps to the cloud in 12 months and the guy says but wait we're running mission critical apps on exadata and aws says there's nothing special about exadata and he starts howling and slapping his knee and laughing and giggling and talking about the 23 year old senior engineer who says we're going to do this with microservices and he could tell he was he was 23 because he was wearing expensive sneakers and what a nightmare they encountered migrating their environment very very very funny video and anyone who's ever gone through a major migration of mission critical systems this is gonna hit home it's funny not funny the point is it's really painful to move off of oracle and oracle for all its haters and its faults is really the best environment for mission critical systems and customers know it so what's happening is oracle's building out the best cloud for oracle database and it has a lot of really profitable customers running on-prem that the company is migrating to oracle cloud infrastructure oci it's a safer bet than ripping it and putting it into somebody else's cloud that doesn't have all the specialized hardware and oracle knowledge because you can get the same integrated exadata hardware and software to run your database in the oracle cloud it's frankly an easier and much more logical migration path for a lot of customers and that's possibly what's happening here not to mention oracle jacks up the license price nearly doubles the license price if you run on other clouds so not only is oracle investing to optimize its cloud infrastructure it spends money on r d we've always talked about that really focused on mission critical applications but it's making it more cost effective by penalizing customers that run oracle elsewhere so this possibly explains why when the gartner magic quadrant for cloud databases comes out it's got oracle so well positioned you can see it there for yourself oracle's position is right there with aws and microsoft and ahead of google on the right-hand side is gartner's critical capabilities ratings for dbms and oracle leads in virtually all of the categories gartner track this is for operational dvms so it's kind of a narrow view it's like the red stack sweet spot now this graph it shows traditional transactions but gartner has oracle ahead of all vendors in stream processing operational intelligence real-time augmented transactions now you know gartner they're like old name framers and i say that lovingly so maybe they're a bit biased and they might be missing some of the emerging opportunities that for example like snowflake is pioneering but it's hard to deny that oracle for its business is making the right moves in cloud by optimizing for the red stack there's little question in our view when it comes to mission critical we think gartner's analysis is correct however there's this other really exciting landscape emerging in cloud data and we don't want it to be a blind spot snowflake calls it the data cloud jamactagani calls it data mesh others are using the term data fabric databricks calls it data lake house so so does oracle by the way and look the terminology is going to evolve and most of the action action that's happening is in the cloud quite frankly and this chart shows a select group of database and data warehouse companies and we've filtered the data for aws azure and gcp customers accounts so how are these accounts or companies that were showing how these vendors were showing doing in aws azure and gcp accounts and to make the cut you had to have a minimum of 50 mentions in the etr survey so unfortunately data bricks didn't make it just not enough presence in the data set quite quite yet but just to give you a sense snowflake is represented in this cut with 131 accounts aws 240 google 108 microsoft 407 huge [ __ ] 117 cloudera 52 just made the cut ibm 92 and oracle 208. again these are shared accounts filtered by customers running aws azure or gcp the chart shows a net score lime green is new ads forest green is spending more gray is flat spending the pink is spending less and the bright red is defection again you subtract the red from the green and you get net score and you can see that snowflake as we reported last week is tops in the data set with a net score in the 80s and virtually no red and even by the way single digit flat spend aws google and microsoft are all prominent in the data set as is [ __ ] and snowflake as i just mentioned and they're all elevated over the 40 mark cloudera yeah what can we say once they were a high flyer they're really not in the news anymore with anything compelling other than they just you know took the company private so maybe they can re-emerge at some point with a stronger story i hope so because as you can see they actually have some new additions and spending momentum in the green just a lot of customers holding steady and a bit too much red but they're in the positive territory at least with uh plus 17 percent unlike ibm and oracle and this is the flip side of the coin ibm they're knee-deep really chest deep in the middle of a major transformation we've said before arvind krishna's strategy and vision is at least achievable prune the portfolio i.e spin out kindrel sell watson health hold serve with the mainframe and deal with those product cycles shift the mix to software and use red hat to win the day in hybrid red hat is working for ibm's growing well into the double digits unfortunately it's not showing up in this chart with little database momentum in aws azure and gcp accounts zero new ads not enough acceleration and spending a big gray middle in nearly a quarter of the base in the red ibm's data and ai business only grew three percent this last quarter and the word database wasn't even mentioned once on ibm's earnings call this has to be a concern as you can see how important database is to aws microsoft google and the momentum it's giving companies like snowflake and [ __ ] and others which brings us to oracle with a net score of minus 12. so how do you square the momentum in oracle cloud spending and the strong ratings and databases from gartner with this picture good question and i would say the following first look at the profile people aren't adding oracle new a large portion of the base 25 is reducing spend by 6 or worse and there's a decent percentage of the base migrating off oracle with a big fat middle that's flat and this accounts for the poor net score overall but what etr doesn't track is how much is being spent rather it's an account based model and oracle is heavily weighted toward big spenders running mission critical applications and databases oracle's non-gaap operating margins are comparable to ibm's gross margins on a percentage basis so a very profitable company with a big license and maintenance in stall basin oracle has focused its r d investments into cloud erp database automation they've got vertical sas and they've got this integrated hardware and software story and this drives differentiation for the company but as you can see in this chart it has a legacy install base that is constantly trying to minimize its license costs okay here's a little bit of different view on the same data we expand the picture with the two dimensions of net score on the y-axis and market share or pervasiveness on the horizontal axis and the table insert is how the data gets plotted y and x respectively not much to add here other than to say the picture continues to look strong for those companies above the 40 line that are focused and their focus and have figured out a clear cloud strategy and aren't necessarily dealing with a big install base the exception of course is is microsoft and the ones below the line definitely have parts of their portfolio which have solid momentum but they're fighting the inertia of a large install base that moves very slowly again microsoft had the advantage of really azure and migrating those customers very quickly okay so let's wrap it up starting with the big three cloud players aws is accelerating and innovating great example is custom silicon with nitro and graviton and other chips that will help the company address concerns related to the race to the bottom it's not a race to zero aws we believe will let its developers go after the sas business and for the most part aws will offer solutions that address large vertical markets think call centers the edge remains a wild card for aws and all the cloud players really aws believes that in the fullness of time all workloads will run in the public cloud now it's hard for us to imagine the tesla autonomous vehicles running in the public cloud but maybe aws will redefine what it means by its cloud microsoft well they're everywhere and they're expanding further now into gaming and the metaverse when he became ceo in 2014 many people said that satya should ditch xbox just as an aside the joke among many oracle employees at the time was that safra katz would buy her kids and her nieces and her nephews and her kids friends everybody xbox game consoles for the holidays because microsoft lost money for everyone that they shipped well nadella has stuck with it and he sees an opportunity to expand through online gaming communities one of his first deals as ceo was minecraft now the acquisition of activision will make microsoft the world's number three gaming company by revenue behind only 10 cent and sony all this will be powered by azure and drive more compute storage ai and tooling now google for its part is battling to stay relevant in the conversation luckily it can afford the massive losses it endures in cloud because the company's advertising business is so profitable don't expect as many have speculated that google is going to bail on cloud that would be a huge mistake as the market is more than large enough for three players which brings us to the rest of the pack cloud ecosystems generally and aws specifically are exploding the idea of super cloud that is a layer of value that spans multiple clouds hides the underlying complexity and brings new value that the cloud players aren't delivering that's starting to bubble to the top and legacy players are staying close to their customers and fighting to keep them spending and it's working dell hpe cisco and smaller predominantly on-plan prem players like pure storage they continue to do pretty well they're just not as sexy as the big cloud players the real interesting activity it's really happening in the ecosystem of companies and firms within industries that are transforming to create their own digital businesses virtually all of them are running a portion of their offerings on the public cloud but often connecting to on-premises workloads and data think goldman sachs making that work and creating a great experience across all environments is a big opportunity and we're seeing it form right before our eyes don't miss it okay that's it for now thanks to my colleague stephanie chan who helped research this week's topics remember these episodes are all available as podcasts wherever you listen just search breaking analysis podcast check out etr's website at etr dot ai and also we publish a full report every week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com you can get in touch with me email me at david.velante siliconangle.com you can dm me at divalante or comment on my linkedin post this is dave vellante for the cube insights powered by etr have a great week stay safe be well and we'll see you next time [Music] you

from the cube studios in palo alto in boston bringing you data driven insights from the cube and etr this is breaking analysis with dave vellante five publicly traded u.s based companies have market valuations over or just near a trillion dollars as of october 29th apple and microsoft topped the list each with 2.5 trillion followed by alphabet at 2 trillion amazon at 1.7 and facebook now meta at just under a trillion off from a tie of 1.1 trillion prior to its recent troubles these companies have reached extraordinary levels of success and power what if anything could disrupt their market dominance in his book seeing digital author david micheller made three key points that i want to call out first in the technology industry disruptions of the norm the waves of mainframes minis pcs mobile and the internet all saw new companies emerge and power structures that dwarfed previous eras of innovation is that dynamic changing second every industry has a disruption scenario not just the technology industry and third silicon valley broadly defined to include seattle or at least amazon has a dual disruption agenda the first being horizontally disrupting the technology industry and the second as digital disruptors in virtually any industry how relevant is that to the future power structure of the digital industry generally in amazon specifically hello and welcome to this week's wikibon cube insights powered by etr in this breaking analysis we welcome in author speaker researcher and thought leader david michela to assess what could possibly disrupt today's trillionaire companies and we're going to start with amazon dave good to see you welcome thanks dave good to see you yeah so dave approached us about a month or so ago he was working on these disruption scenarios and we agreed to make this a community research project where we're going to tap the knowledge of the cube crowd and its adjacent communities and to that end we're initiating a community survey that asks folks to rate the likelihood of seven plus one disruption scenarios so we have a slide here that sort of shows what that survey structure is going to look like and so as i say there's seven plus another one which is kind of an open open-ended and we're going to start with amazon as the disruptee so dave you've been writing about the technology industry for decades and digital disruption and china and automation and hundreds of other topics what prompted you to start this project yeah it's a great question you know as you said that the whole history of our business has been you know every decade or so you have a new set of leaders ibm digital microsoft the internet companies etc but when i started looking at it you know that seems in some ways to have actually stopped that you know microsoft is now 40 years old amazon is what 1995 is getting towards 30. you know google's been a dominant company for 20 years and you know apple of course and facebook more recently so so whatever reason this sort of longevity of these firms has been longer than we've seen in the past so i sort of say well is there anything that's going to change that so part of it and we'll get into it is what could happen to disrupt those big five but then the sort of second question was well maybe the uh disruptive energies of the of the tech business have moved elsewhere they've moved to crypto currencies or they've moved to tesla and so you start to sort of broaden your sense of disruption and when you talked about that dual disruption agenda that whole ability of tech to disrupt other sectors banking health care insurance automobiles whatever is sort of a second wave of disruption so uh we started coming out all right what sort of scenarios are we really looking at over say for the 2020s what might shake up the big five as we know them and how might disruption spread to sort of more industry specific parts of the world and that was really the the genesis of the project and really just my own thinking of all right what scenarios can i come up with and then reaching out to companies like yourselves to figure out okay how can we get more input on that how can we crowdsource it how can we get a sense of of what the community thinks of all this it's great love it and as you know we're very open to do that so we're going to crowdsource this we're going to open it up to virtually anyone and use multiple channels so let's go through some of the scenarios all of them actually and explain the reasoning behind their inclusion the first one the govern government mandated separation divestment and or limits on amazon's cloud computing retail media credit card and or in-house product groups it probably no coincidence that this was the first one you chose today but why start here well i think the government interest in doing something to get back at big tech is is pretty clear and probably one of the few things that has bipartisan support in washington these days and also government interventions have always been an enormous part of the tech industry's history the the antitrust efforts against ibm and att in particular and more recently microsoft a smaller one but it's it's always been there there's a vibe to do it now and when you look at all the big ones but particularly amazon you can see that potential divestments and breakups are sitting there right in front of you the separation of retail and aws uh perhaps breaking out credit card or music or media businesses these sorts of things are all on the surface at least relatively clean things to do and i think when you look at the formation of an alphabet or a meta those companies themselves are starting to see their own businesses as consisting of multiple firms yeah so i just want to kind of drill into the cloud piece just to emphasize the importance of aws in the context of amazon amazon announced earnings thursday night after the close aws is now a 64 billion revenue run rate company and they're growing at 39 percent year over year that's actually an accelerated growth rate from q3 2020 when the company was grew at 29 it's astounding think about a company this size moreover aws accounted for more than actually but 100 of amazon's operating profit last quarter so the aws cloud is obviously crucial as a funding vehicle and ecosystem accelerant for amazon and i just wanted to share some data points dave before we move on to these other scenarios yeah and just on that uh i think that is the fundamental point it's very easy to see aws on its own as a powerhouse but i think you know if you figure how much freedom aws money has given the retail business or the credit card business or the music businesses to launch themselves and to essentially make no money for very long periods of time uh you see that you know if you're a walmart trying to compete with amazon as a retailer well that money from aws is is an awful big problem and and so when they look at separation that's the sort of stuff people talk about right so i just want to i want to put that into context just in in terms of the the cloud business so this chart is one from our etr surveys that isolates the four hyperscale cloud providers and adds in oracle and ibm we both own public clouds but don't you know don't have nearly the the scale we don't have apple or facebook they have clouds as well and we can talk about that in a moment but the chart shows net score or spending momentum on the vertical axis and market share or pervasiveness in the survey on the horizontal axis it's it's really mentioned share not dollar market share but it's an indicator and the red line is an indicator of elevated spending momentum and you can see azure and aws they're up and to the right i mean amazon is 64 billion you know uh azure will claim larger because they're including their application business but just their their their i asked business obviously smaller than amazon's but you can see in the survey the respondents define cloud they include that sas business so they they both impressively have this high spending momentum on the vertical axis well above that 40 line despite their size google obviously well behind those to the left and then alibaba which has a small sample in the etr survey it's you know it's not as prominent in china but even though it's ias cloud businesses larger than google's by probably a couple billion dollars now the point is these four hyperscalers and there really are only four in my view anyway they have a presence that allows them to build new businesses and disrupt ecosystems and enact that dual disruption agenda should they choose to do so at least in the case of amazon oracle and ibm are not in a position to do that it's not part of their agenda they don't they don't have that scale but dave can you talk about your dual disruption scenario very clearly amazon fits in there and i would think alibaba as well but what about microsoft facebook apple google yeah i mean you know people often say what's the biggest difference between microsoft and amazon from from a cloud point of view and the answer is pretty clear that microsoft goes out of its way to assure its customers that it really doesn't have any interest in competing directly about them so you don't see microsoft going into the retail business or the banking business or the healthcare business all that seriously in contrast that's really what amazon is all about is taking its capabilities to essentially any industry it likes and therefore as one is as great as the service aws provides it's often being provided to people who amazon is actually competing with at least some degree or another and you know that's a huge part of microsoft's sales pitch and it's certainly a potential vulnerability down the road uh it's very hard in the end to be an essential supplier and a direct competitor at the same time but so far they've managed to do that yeah so we put together just another sort of aside here this little thought experiment to see what aws would look like as a separate entity and so it's a chart that looks at a number of tech companies and lays out their revenue run rate the growth rates gross margin probably should have done operating margin might have been more relevant but market cap and revenue multiple again given the size of aws at 64 billion run rate and accelerating growth trajectory it's just it's remarkable and so we we figured this out based on industry norms and today's valuations it's not inconceivable that aws could be you know in the trillionaire club or close to it so based on that discussion we had earlier amazon amazon's dual disruption agenda being funded by empowered by aws as we just discussed dave yeah and just keep in mind nothing that you or i are saying are predictions or saying that anything is going to happen they are possible scenarios of what might happen that seem to make some plausible sense so that when amazon is making the sort of profits that it's making aws naturally that's going to attract other companies because there's margin to to be had there and similarly you know look at uh you look at microsoft for all those years the profits it made in windows or in office software allowed it to do all kinds of other things and essentially that's what amazon is doing today but if a google or a microsoft could cut into those profits through some sort of aggressive pricing and perhaps we'll talk about that you know that would have a lot of impact on amazon as a whole all right so let's quickly go through the other description scenarios and maybe make some comments the next one sort of major companies increasingly choose to do their own cloud computing and or sell their products directly for competitive cost security or other reasons so dave i saw this and look at a company like walmart and others no way they're going to run their business on aws walmart as we know is building out its own cloud and maybe it doesn't have the size of a hyperscaler but it's very large it's got the technical chops it can most likely do it a lot cheaper than renting cloud space what was your thinking in this scenario yeah the broader thing here is essentially one of that computing paradigms have been proven to go in cycles you know a long time ago people shared computers and called timeshare and then people ran their own and now they're sharing again through the cloud and who knows it's possible that the cycle could shift again through some innovation and you know a lot of companies today look at the bills they're getting for cloud or for various sas services and some of them are pretty high and a lot of them will look at and say hey maybe we actually can do some of this stuff cheaper so the scenario is that essentially the the cycle shifts once again uh and it makes more sense to do stuff in-house again that's not a prediction but uh certainly something that's happened before and couldn't plausibly happen again yeah there's a lot of discussion about that in the industry of martine casado and sarah wong wrote that piece about the you know the trillion dollar basically sucking sound basically saying the the scenario was the the the premise rather was the that that sas companies their cost of goods sold are increasingly going to be you know chewed up by cloud costs and then of course mark andreessen says every company is going to be a sas company so as the sassification of business occurs that's something to consider okay next scenario is environmental policies raise costs change packaging delivery recycling rules and or consumer preferences can you comment dave on your thinking on this scenario yeah first i'll just back up a bit we're used to thinking of technology is the great disrupter and clearly that's still important but there are now other forces out there china which will talk about uh the environment uh various cultural forces and and here with the environment you see all kinds of things that could change that you know if you look at amazon and its model of very high levels of packaging lots of delivery vehicles and all the things it is doing are those necessarily the best environmentally and will there potentially be various taxes carbon metrics or things that might work against that model and tend to favor more traditional stores where people go to pick them up that seems to be a plausible scenario and i think everybody here knows that desire to do something in the in the climate environmental spaces is pretty strong and you know if you look at you know just throws aside the recycling industry itself has arguably been quite a failure in that much of what is so-called recycled is basically put in tankers and shipped to the third world which no longer wants it uh and so the backlog of packaging and concerns about packaging and uh what to do with all that you know those those issues are rising and and will be real and i i don't know whether amazon has a good answer to that they're you know they obviously are very aware of it they're working very hard to do everything they can in that space but their fundamental model of essentially packaging every good in its own little box or envelope or whatever is arguably not the greenest way of doing business got it thank you so okay so the next one is price in slash trade wars with the u.s and or china cloud and e-commerce giant so protectionism favors national players so we talking here about for example google bombing prices or alibaba or trade policy making it difficult for amazon to do business in certain parts of the world can you add some color on this one yeah all those things and i would just start with with china itself you know you could argue that covet has been the biggest disruptor of the last couple years but if you look out the next five or eight you had to look at all these things you'd probably say china the size of the chinese market the power of its vendors players like alibaba clearly can rival amazon in many different ways uh you know it's no secret that it'd be hard for amazon to they're not going to be a big success in china uh but you can see it in harder ways that you imagine across asia or other markets where alibaba is strong and you're in today's sort of environment where there's scarce goods and maybe certain products well maybe they go chinese may probably go to alibaba first and you want to buy that product well amazon doesn't have it but alibaba has it you know those sort of scenarios if you get into a sharp trade war with china or even if the current tensions continue it's quite easy to see how that could uh play some havoc with amazon's supply chains in many ways the whole amazon retail model is based on a steady flow of goods manufactured in china and that clearly is not as stable as it was right got it the next one actually caught my attention and this is a big part of the reason why we want to survey the community to see how plausible folks think this is in its its technology related scenario so that would potentially disrupt aws and by fault by default hit amazon so that's major computing innovations such as quantum edge machine machine would obsolete today's cloud architectures okay so so here what you're thinking just as aws changed the game in i.t some future innovations or new business models that we haven't conceived yet could disrupt the prevailing cloud computing model right yeah absolutely i mean you know again we'll go back to where we started that new technologies have always been the main disruptors and here we're looking at some potentially very powerful uh new technologies you know your guess is good in mind about what's gonna happen with quantum is clearly a very different way of computing quite possibly led by other vendors possibly even led by china which would be a huge issue you look at the cloud well cloud's not very good at sort of edge stuff or machine to a machine stuff or sort of near field things out cars in the highway talking to each other uh you know again amazon's totally aware of these things and they are working on it but they have a huge investment in other ways of doing things and historically that inertia that need to protect existing bases of activity and practices has made it difficult for a lot of companies to adjust to new things and so that could happen again uh and there's certainly a puzzle but yeah in all these cases so far amazon has been aware of it is trying to do it but you can still see the scenario playing out and in a truly disruptive technology it's not always possible for the incumbent to effectively cope with it okay the next scenario speaks to i think some of the work that you've done in automation and related areas software replaces centralized warehouses as delivery services are directly connected to suppliers and factories so dave this is like cut out the middle man right software and automation changes the nature of the route absolutely i mean you know in a world of ubiquitous delivery services and product standardization metrics and products being built and shipped from all over the world the concept of running them all through a centralized warehouse is at least at a minimum uh seems like something that might be uh obsoleted and replaced and you know imagine if google built a significant taxonomy of of core products that could be traced directly to where they are either manufactured supplied or brought into the country from whatever company that tries to sell them and the delivery service connected directly to that uh and so that model has always been out there i think at various times people have looked at it it hasn't happened so far and i think amazon itself is is is looking at this particularly as it gets more into food that the idea of shipping all fresh food any sort of centralized warehouse is a pretty bad idea uh and so you know that model of software essentially replacing giant automated warehouses uh is out there and and seems to me uh likely and i just say that you know alibaba for the record doesn't really use that warehouse model it uses a network of suppliers and does it that way and and there do seem to be uh some efficiencies that would likely come with that the next one is was really interesting from a historian's perspective and it's the penultimate uh scenario and that's the proverbial self-inflicted wound and you and i certainly remember ibm's you know fateful decision to outsource the microprocessor and operating system to intel and and and and and microsoft sorry ibm's decision to do that lotus you might recall it refused to allow 123 to run on windows back in the day novell buying word perfect jim barksdale a lot of young people the audience won't of course remember this but jim barksdale poo-pooing microsoft's decision to bundle internet explorer into the operating system all those were kind of self-inflicted or blind spots so this one is complacency arrogance blindness abuse of power loss of trust so much more than the examples i gave consumer and or employee backlash you're seeing some of that at facebook now and i guess this is taking their eye off the customer ball losing the day zero in amazon's case forgetting that customer obsession formula they're working backwards culture and i think this is a big reason why andy jassy was put in charge so this wouldn't happen but we've seen time and time again as the examples i just gave blind spots have absolutely killed companies haven't they dave absolutely he listed many of the most famous but perhaps my favorite of all was kennels and the founder of digital equipment corporation one of the great tech visionaries of his time who stated over and over again why would anybody want a home computer or eunuch's snake oil was his other beautiful all of those things and and so there's the blindness uh there's the area ibm who just came to the view that they and att both came to the view that they were invincible and nothing could ever crack their control of their customer base so we've seen all that i think uh more recently i think some of these things can actually go from the bottom up and you know what's happening to facebook today well they're being hurt by former employees speaking out uh you know this never really happened too much to in the ibm and t days but people calling into question amazon's work labor practices and such things is certainly a possible scenario and the whole sort of you know in the end you know people talk about a cultural backlash against technology i'm not sure i believe it'll happen but it certainly is possible that people will start to rebel against these firms you see it more likely with facebook is fairly well along there uh amazon's still popular but you know in the end and as you i think you said the the core thing that companies routinely fail on is they lose their customer focus and they get caught up in other things their financial numbers their their power inside their position of their company but they they lose track of staying close to the customer has need and terrific job of staying close to the customers over the years uh so if anyone you know was maybe less vulnerable that they they would be well along that that line but it can happen to anyone and new management is often you know one of the real tests and there's many examples of that through history when a new executive comes in will they have that same focus that same thing particularly you know as the first generation's employees get wealthy and retired in a new set of people come in you know you look at microsoft the new people who came in well they're not going to be multi-millionaires they may have missed the great runs they're there to work and and the culture of companies changes when you get to that state the m is not that there yet but you can envision that comings soon enough so you know cultural issues have always been a factor and it's hard to imagine there won't be some sort of factor going forward well and you know you talk about that the the succession of founders and ceos i mean that's what to me makes microsoft so astounding because during the bomber years it was unclear that they were ever going to become relevant again and so nadella has done a masterful job but of course they had the margins from the pc software business that allowed them to buy that time but look at intel and the troubles it's going through uh and so many other examples of companies that just sort of said all right well we're going to pack it in and either sell the company or which is again what i think makes think companies like oracle and dell which you know founder-led ceos not ceo in the case of oracle but still running the business uh so quite uh significant yeah yeah and you know we've talked a lot about things that might hurt answers but you gotta recognize how in many ways how amazing they are and most tech companies a lot of them anyways have essentially been one trick ponies i mean google still makes overwhelming amount of its money selling ads and the things it's tried to do in cars and healthcare and various things you know they've often struggled you know apple still makes the core of its money around it's it's cell phone platform amazon's one of the few that continually generates entirely new huge businesses and and you have to give them an enormous amount of credit for that you know microsoft uh was a they failed repeatedly over and over again with internet stuff and phone stuff and all these things and it really wasn't until you know satya came in and really focused on their customers and their need for enterprise services that he that he really got the company on the right track so you know amazon has always been good listeners customers and if they continue to do so it bodes well but history says other stuff comes along okay and the last scenario is open-ended dave included uh you know what did we miss is there another scenario that we haven't put forth that you could feel it could be disruptive to amazon right i mean you've got to have the at least what'd we miss yeah i mean you know these are things that me and you and i just sort of made up the top of our head these are things we see that that might happen but you know in your huge audience of people in this community every day i'm sure there are other people out there who have thoughts of what might shake things up or even doing things that might shake things up already uh and you know one of the things you do for you guys is get this sort of material out there and and see what ideas surface so hopefully people will uh participate in this and we'll see what comes out of it all right so what happens from here is we're going to publish the the link to the survey in this video description and in our posts we ask you to take the survey please tell your friends we're going to publish the results as always we do in an open and free david michelle thanks so much for putting your brain power on this and collaborating with us i'm really excited to see the results and and and run through the other giants with you as well once we see what this survey says yeah thanks david great and yeah if we can make this one work be fun to do it for for google and microsoft and facebook and apple and see where it all goes thanks a lot all right okay that's it for today remember these episodes are all available as podcasts wherever you listen just search breaking analysis podcast i publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com etr.plus is where all the cool survey data lives they just dropped their october survey with some great findings so do check that out you can reach me on twitter at d velante he's at d michelle or comment on my linkedin post or email me at david.vellante at siliconangle.com this is dave vellante for dave michelle thanks for watching thecube insights powered by etr be well and we'll see you next time

>>From the Bellagio hotel in Las Vegas, it's the cube covering UI path forward for brought to you by UI path. >>It's the Q we are live in Las Vegas at the Bellagio. Lisa Martin, with Dave Volante, we're covering UI path forward for this is our second day of coverage. We've had a lot of great conversations with customers at UI path partners, their senior leaders. And next up, we're going to be talking to, I'm going to say the queen of citizen developer nests. We're not just going to create that title for you. Sydney, Madison Prescott. She's the global head of intelligent automation at Spotify Sydney. Welcome to the program. I >>Am so excited >>To be here. We're excited to have you. So one of my, as we were talking before we went live, we both are big fans of Spotify. I don't know what we would do without it in our personal lives. But talk to me a little bit about Spotify automation, UI path. And I don't want to get into you your book, what you've done for citizen developers. >>Perfect. So Spotify is on a very interesting journey. Uh, we began the journey during the pandemic and we were speaking about this a little bit earlier. And so our journey began with trying to understand how we would tackle, uh, still wanting to upskill our employees, despite the fact that we were in the middle of this kind of global crisis. And so through that endeavor, we decided to actually split out our different, uh, automation capabilities into citizen developer and unattended automation. And we did all of this through a center of excellence. So a centralized, uh, COE, which would facilitate the growth of the automations, uh, whether on the citizen developer side or the unattended side. And through this programs, we set up, uh, several different trainings where we could facilitate the growth of the citizen developer community through five day, what we call bot boot camps and the bot boot camp is in essence, um, five day training, about four and a half, five hours a day, where we take anyone at Spotify who would like to upskill in this type of automation. And we teach them everything from the basics of robotic process automation, all the way to, you know, what are all of the Spotify specific things that you have to do in order to maintain a robust, uh, citizen developer footprint within your team. And so through that, uh, that entire journey, it's been quite amazing. We started with a very small footprint in our accounting team, and we have scaled now to over 100 citizen developers, uh, in a variety of functions within Spotify. >>And what was the role that you came to Spotify to do? Cause you came there, went there right before the everything happened. >>Yes. So I was actually, uh, brought into Spotify to stand up and scale out our intelligent automation center of excellence. >>So the center of excellence is, is sort of the main spring of knowledge, training innovation. And then the, the citizen developer piece, it sounds like you're pushing out distributing that knowledge. Right. And so I'm interested in that sort of architecture of automation is that you've got a combination of centralized expertise and decentralized innovation. Can you talk about that a little bit? >>Yeah. So it's very interesting actually. So we facilitate the citizen developer program through the center of excellence. So you can think of the center of excellence as the foundation of that knowledge. And our goal is to democratize that knowledge throughout the enterprise. And the way we do that is through the training. Uh, we facilitate the governance of the program. So making sure that all of the infrastructure is properly set up, uh, enabling the citizens, if they need support, just talking about ideation, uh, even so far as up-skilling as well. So upskilling all the way to a power user, uh, whereby those users could become true innovators and facilitate a wide variety of automations within their teams. And was it >>The events of the last 18 months? It really catalyzed this and kind of led you to really become a big advocate for citizen led development. >>It did. So we initially were starting with just the center of excellence and an unintended footprint, and we quickly pivoted and realized that we needed to in order to scale, uh, significantly given the, the situation working virtually, uh, we are a distributed team around the world that it was critical for our success that we could, uh, really distribute to this workout. And we felt that the best way to do that was through standing up a citizen developer program. >>The things that I'm trying to understand is the relationship between automation and data. And I look at Spotify in many respects is a data company, at least a company who really understands data. And I see you building all these awesome data products. I'm a subscriber as well, but you know, you've added podcasts, you've got contributors to those podcasts. You've obviously got artists and you know, these people obviously have to be paid. You have this sort of interesting ecosystem and these are all data products, if you will, that you guys build. And it's very cool sort of business model. What's the relationship between data and automation? >>Well, it is a big relationship. I would actually say it is probably the pivotal relationship because in order to tell that compelling story of digital transformation, we have to understand the data behind all of the automations that we're generating. Um, and this is whether it says in developer or COE built. Um, and so for us, it's, it's a critical component of our success that we can pinpoint those key metrics that we are looking at and tracking, you know, what does success mean for our center of excellence? What does it mean for our citizen led program? And this is everything from, you know, increased data quality to risk mitigation of different internal regulatory risk. Uh, it could be something as simple as our saved on automation. So it's, uh, a wide variety of attributes that we're looking at to really pinpoint where the successes are coming from and where we can improve maybe where we need to improve our automation footprint in a given business. >>Why did you write this book? >>Great question. So I believe in citizen development, I think it is a very unique approach to spreading out the way that you can transform your business. And so I saw a lot of struggles as I've gone through I'm in the industry with understanding citizen development, uh, the premise of it, and also understanding the technology behind it. Um, I am a big fan of studio X. And so the book specifically focuses on studio X. Um, it really introducing users to what is studio X and how really teaching individuals, how to upskill themselves, um, just through the use of the book, very intuitive and hopefully taking away some of the fear that the users may have about walking through a platform like studio S >>So what do I have to know to actually, can I read your book and then start coding? Is it by >>That is the goal. Yes. So the goal for the book is very hands-on. So it is, it is a book for, um, the novice business user, uh, someone who is not familiar with RPA, someone who may not even be familiar with UI path, they would be able to pick up this book, go through the set of exercises. It's very robust out over 400 pages. So it really packed a lot of knowledge in there, but the goal would be by the time you walk through every single exercise and complete the book, you would not only understand RPA. You would also understand UI path as a, as a service provider platform. You'd also understand the nuances of studio X. >>So in theory, someone like myself could get your book, download the community edition, start building automations, right? >>Yes, exactly. Exactly. >>You have to Google a few things, but yeah. >>Yes. And it comes with a very robust code code set up. They're able to actually look at the code and review, uh, examples of the code, uh, in a source code repository. So again, it's very novice users it's meant for, to help facilitate just the learning of someone who is maybe curious about RPA, curious about UI path, or just curious about studio app. >>I already have the use case. >>You do have these guys I'm interested in doing it too. I mean, I can tell that it's a passion project of yours that you fundamentally believe in. You know, we saw this morning data from IDC and we've seen lots of different data sources that talk about, oh, automation taking jobs, people being fearful, organizations, not being ready at the same time. We've had such a tumultuous last 18 months that organizations that weren't digital are probably gone and organizations that aren't, how did there was this massive uptake in automation because suddenly you couldn't get bodies into buildings. So tell me about how this book is a facility, first of all, tell us the name of it. And then as a facilitator of those employees who might be worried about their jobs being taken by bots, >>That is a great question. So the, the name of the book is robotic process automation, a citizen developers guide to hyper automation using UI path studio X. And I would say I've heard a lot of the conversation surrounding the loss of jobs, the potential fear, uh, we all we know as humans, we are generally unfortunately, a little resistant to change and, you know, the, I'll say the digital revolution that we're going through, uh, within the workforce, whether it is hybrid work, whether it is completely virtual work, it is a bit daunting. And I understand that fear, I think in alignment with the conversation that we had heard about earlier at forward there, RPA has the ability to generate a massive amount of not only improvements within different industries, but jobs as well. Right? And for someone who is looking at this kind of ever changing landscape, and they're wondering, where do I fit in? >>Am I going to get pushed out of a, of a general, you know, uh, industry? I would say that that fear turned that into power, turned that into ambition. Um, the level of upskilling that you can do on your own, whether it's using UiPath academy, whether it's reaching out to your center of excellence, it's incredible. Um, there's a wide variety of different ways that you can upskill yourself. And in essence, you become, um, a powerful player in your environment because not only do you have the business acumen, you now have the technical acumen, and that is everything. I mean, when we talk about transformation, we talk about where our industry's going. Um, there's a saying that, you know, every company now must be a technology company, right? And so this is the key, even as workers, even as employees, we all must be technologists. And so the real question is, think of yourself and think of this concept. I like to call human augmentation. How can you augment yourself through UI path, through the use of RPA to become that up-skilled worker, that next level worker who will be integral to the success of any company moving from, >>We talk a lot about upscaling. Now, of course, part of that upskilling I presume is learning how to use robotic process automation and the tooling, but it seems that there's more to it than that. And, and you just strike me as a person that's creative, you have a power persona. So what are these sort of intangible skills that, that I need to succeed in this new world? And can I learn them? >>That's a great question. I think one of the biggest skills, being able to think outside of the box, that is huge. Uh, and again, this goes back to at least question about what does it take and what should you, you should really think outside of the box about your own career, about your team, about your company, um, how you can improve upon what is already there, um, or how can you build something completely new that has never been thought of before. And so I think that's the biggest skill. The ability to, um, innovate, think, think innovatively and think outside of the box. Um, I believe it's, it's something that is maybe a little intuitive to some individuals, but you can also learn, you can learn to, um, get out of your own way, so to speak, uh, so that you can actually start to come up with these really creative ways to address, uh, whether it's complex business problems, uh, whether it's at an industry level or even just within your internal enterprise. >>And creativity is actually one of the attributes. And I guess it might not be in your DNA, but if you, you know, it's like humor, humor, right? If you hang out with funny people, you know, if you hang out with creative people, you can, you can learn about apply. >>That's right. That's right. But in the beginning of the pandemic, you know, one of the things that I think we all want, you seem to have a ton of motivation and ambition as Dave was saying. And, and I'm someone that normally has that too, but in the first year of pandemic, that was hard. It's hard to get motivated. It was hard to know where do I fit in? How do you advise? And now of course, when you publish the book six months ago, we're about a year into the pandemic. Things are looking better because here we are in Las Vegas at an in-person event with humans. But how do you, how do you see, how do you recommend to folks that are, that don't have technology backgrounds like you don't, I don't to motivate themselves to go, you can take the control, take it. And everybody don't, we all want control as people and take control of your career path. There are a lot of opportunities out there. How do you advise people navigating this challenging sort of mental state with there's so many opportunities sitting right here? Yes >>That's so I think it, it goes back to the getting out of your own way. It also goes back to really taking a look at assess assessing your own skillset, um, assessing your own personal drivers. What motivates you, uh, whether that is in your personal life, whether that is in your professional life, and then taking a look also at those motivators, how can I look at those and what use can I get out of those to help me to transform my own personal skill set and really grow out, uh, my, my capabilities, right, as a professional it's, it's all about really thinking through, uh, your, I'll say your professional background or role as ever-changing ever-growing. And as long as you approach it with a mindset of constantly growing constantly upskilling, I mean, honestly, the sky is truly the limit. >>I a weird question. If, if, if, if mastering word is a one and let's say learning, um, learning how to use Excel, macros is let's call it a three. Uh, all in the spectrum goes out to a, be a building, a complex, uh, you know, uh, AI model, data science kind of ML model. If that's a 10, where does learning how to code RPA as a citizen developer fit on that spectrum? Good question. >>Oh, that's a great question. I would say somewhere between, Hmm. I would say somewhere between maybe three and four around there, because you there. So again, we, we have so many tools that we can use to help upscale the set of sense at this point that we can really walk them through the nuances, uh, at a pace that is conducive to really retaining the knowledge. So I don't think it's, it's definitely not the level of, let's say, building out a complex, like machine learning model or something of that nature. It may be a little bit more in alignment with, um, if someone is up-skilled and macros, or you may be up-skilled in some other type of scripting, uh, language similar to that, I might even say sometimes a little bit, maybe a little bit less difficult than that, uh, depending on what you're trying to automate, right. The process you're trying to automate the company, >>But inside of a day, I can do something fairly simple, right? Yeah. >>Yes. So we actually, the, the training that we have at Spotify, we train our users from novice. Absolutely no understanding, no knowledge of RPA to building able, being able to build a bot in five days. And those are five half days sessions that the citizen developers attend. And by the morning of the fifth day, they actually have built a bot. And so it's, and it's very powerful, uh, being able to, to upskill someone and show them, I can take you from, you know, absolutely no understanding of RPA to actually having something, a bot that you can showcase that you can run within as little as five half days. I mean, it's very compelling to any business user, right? >>The business impact. Soon as you guys are too young to remember, but there's this thing called Lotus 1, 2, 3, we used to have to go to Lotus class slash file retrieve for you folks who remember this was all keyboard based, but it was game changing in terms of your personal productivity. And it sounds like there's a similar but much, much larger impact with RPA >>Impact. Talk to me about the impact of the program, especially in the last, this year, here we are in October, you mentioned started small, and now there's about a hundred folks. Talk to me about the appetite of that as we've seen this massive acceleration and the need to automate for everyday things that we expect as consumers, whether we're ordering food or buying something online. >>Hmm. So it really is a different mindset in terms of thinking through the way that we work differently. And so we really approached it with, if you're an accountant, think of what is the future role and responsibility of an accountant in this new digital, uh, I'll say environment. And through that, we have been able to really push this idea or this concept of up-skilling as a key element of personal professional success and also team success. Um, and that has been a game changer. So there's a lot of value that comes out of the cohesiveness between the personal desire to upskill and continue to, uh, be a, you know, a consummate professional in whatever role you're in, but also to help your team right, to be, to be, you know, a standout, uh, team player in terms of the skills that you're bringing to the table as both an accountant and someone that has now the power of automation within your skillset. Okay. >>And ask you one more question. And that is something that Dave brought up yesterday as we were, he was sitting on a panel with, and he was the only male, which is not common in our industry. How have you seen the role of females in technology changing? And I'm imagine you do work in stem. Imagine you're a motivational speaker you should be if you're not. Um, but how have you seen the role of females in technology changing in since there's so much opportunity there? >>Yes. That is a great question. I believe that RPA specifically, uh, is an incredible driver of women and influencing more women to enter into stem fields, primarily because it is such an innovative technology. There are so many roles he said that are open, just opening up. Uh, probably I've heard different numbers in terms of acceleration of growth over the next five to 10 years. So we're looking at a plethora of opportunities and these are brand new roles that women who are curious about stem, curious about being a technologist can dive right into from wherever they are. So whether they are a tax professional today, whether they are working within, you know, uh, counting, whether they're working with an internal audit, they have the opportunity now to test the waters. Um, and quite often it is such a, it's such a fascinating field. And as I said, there's so much potential around it and for growth and just for changing, uh, different industries, that it's a great driver for women to actually enter into, uh, stem technology, uh, and really drive change, facilitate change, and have more women at the table, so to speak. Okay. >>And you didn't, you didn't start in tech, in stem, right? I did not. Do you have a law degree or no, you have a Ms. >>So yes, little studies and then I actually, I'm a philosopher. So I started by my degree is in philosophy. I love >>This logic. Yes. I love how you've applied that to >>Yeah. Yes. I was not initially in stem and it was actually through an internship at a technology firm, uh, while I was in college that I don't first open to technology. And it just immediately captivated me just in terms of working, you know, that the speed, the pace, uh, just being able to solve these complex business problems at scale around the world. It was absolutely fascinating to me, obviously still is, but I think testing the waters in that way, um, as I was just talking before, it helped me to understand, I had never envisioned a career in technology, but having an opportunity to test the waters really enabled me to see that, wow, this is something where I have a skillset and it brings out a passion within me that I didn't know that I had. So it was a, it was a win-win. >>That's awesome. No worries. Last question. Where can folks go to get your book? >>Yes. So anywhere books are sold, uh, definitely on Amazon. Uh, we, if you are here at forward, we also are, have a book signing, so you can come find me. I'll be on the patio signing books and, uh, yeah, it's, it's everywhere. And I would love to hear feedback. And we're thinking about a second one. So please let us know how you like the, uh, the activities that are in there. >>Thank you. Congratulations. And Dave's going to pick one up so he can start. >>Yeah. The use case. I'm dying to dig >>In, do a breathing analysis on it, and he was great to have you on the program. Your energy is fantastic. You really open up opportunities for people. I hope that more people will watch this and understand that while the really the sky is really the limit. And, uh, thank you for your time. Absolutely. >>Thank you. It's a pleasure >>For Dave Volante. I'm Lisa Martin. We are live in Vegas at the Bellagio UI path forward for you right back with our next guest.

>> From the CUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from the CUBE in ETR. This is breaking analysis with Dave Vellante. >> Earlier these week, the U S department of justice, along with attorneys general from 11 States filed a long expected antitrust lawsuit, accusing Google of being a monopoly gatekeeper for the internet. The suit draws on section two of the Sherman antitrust act, which makes it illegal to monopolize trade or commerce. Of course, Google is going to fight the lawsuit, but in our view, the company has to make bigger moves to diversify its business and the answer we think lies in the cloud and at the edge. Hello everyone. This is Dave Vellante and welcome to this week's Wiki Bond Cube insights powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis, we want to do two things. First we're going to review a little bit of history, according to Dave Vollante of the monopolistic power in the computer industry. And then next, we're going to look into the latest ETR data. And we're going to make the case that Google's response to the DOJ suit should be to double or triple its focus on cloud and edge computing, which we think is a multi-trillion dollar opportunity. So let's start by looking at the history of monopolies in technology. We start with IBM. In 1969 the U S government filed an antitrust lawsuit against Big Blue. At the height of its power. IBM generated about 50% of the revenue and two thirds of the profits for the entire computer industry, think about that. IBM has monopoly on a relative basis, far exceeded that of the virtual Wintel monopoly that defined the 1990s. IBM had 90% of the mainframe market and controlled the protocols to a highly vertically integrated mainframe stack, comprising semiconductors, operating systems, tools, and compatible peripherals like terminal storage and printers. Now the government's lawsuit dragged on for 13 years before it was withdrawn in 1982, IBM at one point had 200 lawyers on the case and it really took a toll on IBM and to placate the government during this time and someone after IBM made concessions such as allowing mainframe plug compatible competitors to access its code, limiting the bundling of application software in fear of more government pressure. Now the biggest mistake IBM made when it came out of antitrust was holding on to its mainframe past. And we saw this in the way it tried to recover from the mistake of handing its monopoly over to Microsoft and Intel. The virtual monopoly. What it did was you may not remember this, but it had OS/2 and Windows and it said to Microsoft, we'll keep OS/2 you take Windows. And the mistake IBM was making with sticking to the PC could be vertically integrated, like the main frame. Now let's fast forward to Microsoft. Microsoft monopoly power was earned in the 1980s and carried into the 1990s. And in 1998 the DOJ filed the lawsuit against Microsoft alleging that the company was illegally thwarting competition, which I argued at the time was the case. Now, ironically, this is the same year that Google was started in a garage. And I'll come back to that in a minute. Now, in the early days of the PC, Microsoft they were not a dominant player in desktop software, you had Lotus 1-2-3, WordPerfect. You had this company called Harvard Presentation Graphics. These were discreet products that competed very effectively in the market. Now in 1987, Microsoft paid $14 million for PowerPoint. And then in 1990 launched Office, which bundled Spreadsheets, Word Processing, and presentations into a single suite. And it was priced far more attractively than the some of the alternative point products. Now in 1995, Microsoft launched Internet Explorer, and began bundling its browser into windows for free. Windows had a 90% market share. Netscape was the browser leader and a high flying tech company at the time. And the company's management who pooed Microsoft bundling of IE saying, they really weren't concerned because they were moving up the stack into business software, now they later changed that position after realizing the damage that Microsoft bundling would do to its business, but it was too late. So in similar moves of ineptness, Lotus refuse to support Windows at its launch. And instead it wrote software to support the (indistinct). A mini computer that you probably have never even heard of. Novell was a leader in networking software at the time. Anyone remember NetWare. So they responded to Microsoft's move to bundle network services into its operating systems by going on a disastrous buying spree they acquired WordPerfect, Quattro Pro, which was a Spreadsheet and a Unix OS to try to compete with Microsoft, but Microsoft turned the volume and kill them. Now the difference between Microsoft and IBM is that Microsoft didn't build PC hardware rather it partnered with Intel to create a virtual monopoly and the similarities between IBM and Microsoft, however, were that it fought the DOJ hard, Okay, of course. But it made similar mistakes to IBM by hugging on to its PC software legacy. Until the company finally pivoted to the cloud under the leadership of Satya Nadella, that brings us to Google. Google has a 90% share of the internet search market. There's that magic number again. Now IBM couldn't argue that consumers weren't hurt by its tactics. Cause they were IBM was gouging mainframe customers because it could on pricing. Microsoft on the other hand could argue that consumers were actually benefiting from lower prices. Google attorneys are doing what often happens in these cases. First they're arguing that the government's case is deeply flawed. Second, they're saying the government's actions will cause higher prices because they'll have to raise prices on mobile software and hardware, Hmm. Sounds like a little bit of a threat. And of course, it's making the case that many of its services are free. Now what's different from Microsoft is Microsoft was bundling IE, that was a product which was largely considered to be crap, when it first came out, it was inferior. But because of the convenience, most users didn't bother switching. Google on the other hand has a far superior search engine and earned its rightful place at the top by having a far better product than Yahoo or Excite or Infoseek or even Alta Vista, they all wanted to build portals versus having a clean user experience with some non-intrusive of ads on the side. Hmm boy, is that part changed, regardless? What's similar in this case with, as in the case with Microsoft is the DOJ is arguing that Google and Apple are teaming up with each other to dominate the market and create a monopoly. Estimates are that Google pays Apple between eight and $11 billion annually to have its search engine embedded like a tick into Safari and Siri. That's about one third of Google's profits go into Apple. And it's obviously worth it because according to the government's lawsuit, Apple originated search accounts for 50% of Google search volume, that's incredible. Now, does the government have a case here? I don't know. I'm not qualified to give a firm opinion on this and I haven't done enough research yet, but I will say this, even in the case of IBM where the DOJ eventually dropped the lawsuit, if the U S government wants to get you, they usually take more than a pound of flesh, but the DOJ did not suggest any remedies. And the Sherman act is open to wide interpretation so we'll see. What I am suggesting is that Google should not hang too tightly on to it's search and advertising past. Yes, Google gives us amazing free services, but it has every incentive to appropriate our data. And there are innovators out there right now, trying to develop answers to that problem, where the use of blockchain and other technologies can give power back to us users. So if I'm arguing that Google shouldn't like the other great tech monopolies, hang its hat too tightly on the past, what should Google do? Well, the answer is obvious, isn't it? It's cloud and edge computing. Now let me first say that Google understandably promotes G Suite quite heavily as part of its cloud computing story, I get that. But it's time to move on and aggressively push into the areas that matters in cloud core infrastructure, database, machine intelligence containers and of course the edge. Not to say that Google isn't doing this, but there are areas of greatest growth potential that they should focus on. And the ETR data shows it. But let me start with one of our favorite graphics, which shows the breakdown of survey respondents used to derive net score. Net score remembers ETR's quarterly measurement of spending velocity. And here we show the breakdown for Google cloud. The lime green is new adoptions. The forest green is the percentage of customers increasing spending more than 5%. The gray is flat and the pinkish is decreased by 6% or more. And the bright red is we're replacing or swapping out the platform. You subtract the reds from the greens and you get a net score at 43%, which is not off the charts, but it's pretty good. And compares quite favorably to most companies, but not so favorite with AWS, which is at 51% and Microsoft which is at 49%, both AWS and Microsoft red scores are in the single digits. Whereas Google's is at 10%, look all three are down since January, thanks to COVID, but AWS and Microsoft are much larger than Google. And we'd like to see stronger across the board scores from Google. But there's good news in the numbers for Google. Take a look at this chart. It's a breakdown of Google's net scores over three survey snapshots. Now we skip January in this view and we do that to provide a year of a year context for October. But look at the all important database category. We've been watching this very closely, particularly with the snowflake momentum because big query generally is considered the other true cloud native database. And we have a lot of respect for what Google is doing in this area. Look at the areas of strength highlighted in the green. You've got machine intelligence where Google is a leader AI you've got containers. Kubernetes was an open source gift to the industry, and linchpin of Google's cloud and multi-cloud strategy. Google cloud is strong overall. We were surprised to see some deceleration in Google cloud functions at 51% net scores to be on honest with you, because if you look at AWS Lambda and Microsoft Azure functions, they're showing net scores in the mid to high 60s. But we're still elevated for Google. Now. I'm not that worried about steep declines, and Apogee and Looker because after an acquisitions things kind of get spread out around the ETR taxonomy so don't be too concerned about that. But as I said earlier, G Suite may just not that compelling relative to the opportunity in other areas. Now I won't show the data, but Google cloud is showing good momentum across almost all interest industries and sectors with the exception of consulting and small business, which is understandable, but notable deceleration in healthcare, which is a bit of a concern. Now I want to share some customer anecdotes about Google. These comments come from an ETR Venn round table. The first comment comes from an architect who says that "it's an advantage that Google is "not entrenched in the enterprise." Hmm. I'm not sure I agree with that, but anyway, I do take stock in what this person is saying about Microsoft trying to lure people away from AWS. And this person is right that Google essentially is exposed its internal cloud to the world and has ways to go, which is why I don't agree with the first statement. I think Google still has to figure out the enterprise. Now the second comment here underscores a point that we made earlier about big query customers really like the out of the box machine learning capabilities, it's quite compelling. Okay. Let's look at some of the data that we shared previously, we'll update this chart once the company's all report earnings, but here's our most recent take on the big three cloud vendors market performance. The key point here is that our data and the ETR data reflects Google's commentary in its earning statements. And the GCP is growing much faster than its overall cloud business, which includes things that are not apples to apples with AWS the same thing is true with Azure. Remember AWS is the only company that provides clear data on its cloud business. Whereas the others will make comments, but not share the data explicitly. So these are estimates based on those comments. And we also use, as I say, the ETR survey data and our own intelligence. Now, as one of the practitioners said, Google has a long ways to go as buddy an eighth of the size of AWS and about a fifth of the size of Azure. And although it's growing faster at this size, we feel that its growth should be even higher, but COVID is clear a factor here so we have to take that into consideration. Now I want to close by coming back to antitrust. Google spends a lot on R&D, these are quick estimates but let me give you some context. Google shells out about $26 billion annually on research and development. That's about 16% of revenue. Apple spends less about 16 billion, which is about 6% of revenue, Amazon 23 billion about 8% of the top line, Microsoft 19 billion or 13% of revenue and Facebook 14 billion or 20% of revenue, wow. So Google for sure spends on innovation. And I'm not even including CapEx in any of these numbers and the hype guys as you know, spend tons on CapEx building data centers. So I'm not saying Google cheaping out, they're not. And I got plenty of cash in there balance sheet. They got to run 120 billion. So I can't criticize they're roughly $9 billion in stock buybacks the way I often point fingers at what I consider IBM's overly wall street friendly use of cash, but I will say this and it was Jeff Hammerbacher, who I spoke with on the Cube in the early part of last decade at a dupe world, who said "the best minds of my generation are spending there time, "trying to figure out how to get people to click on ads." And frankly, that's where much of Google's R&D budget goes. And again, I'm not saying Google doesn't spend on cloud computing. It does, but I'm going to make a prediction. The post cookie apocalypse is coming soon, it may be here. iOS 14 makes you opt in to find out everything about you. This is why it's such a threat to Google. The days when Google was able to be the keeper of all of our data and to house it and to do whatever it likes with that data that ended with GDPR. And that was just the beginning of the end. This decade is going to see massive changes in public policy that will directly affect Google and other consumer facing technology companies. So my premise is that Google needs to step up its game and enterprise cloud and the edge much more than it's doing today. And I like what Thomas Kurian is doing, but Google's undervalued relative to some of the other big tech names. And I think it should tell wall street that our future is in enterprise cloud and edge computing. And we're going to take a hit to our profitability and go big in those areas. And I would suggest a few things, first ramp up R&D spending and acquisitions even more. Go on a mission to create cloud native fabric across all on-prem and the edge multicloud. Yes, I know this is your strategy, but step it up even more forget satisfying investors. You're getting dinged in the market anyway. So now's the time the moon wall street and attack the opportunity unless you don't see it, but it's staring you right in the face. Second, get way more cozy with the enterprise players that are scared to death of the cloud generally. And they're afraid of AWS in particular, spend the cash and go way, way deeper with the big tech players who have built the past IBM, Dell, HPE, Cisco, Oracle, SAP, and all the others. Those companies that have the go to market shops to help you win the day in enterprise cloud. Now, I know you partner with these companies already, but partner deeper identify game-changing innovations that you can co-create with these companies and fund it with your cash hoard. I'm essentially saying, do what you do with Apple. And instead of sucking up all our data and getting us to click on ads, solve really deep problems in the enterprise and the edge. It's all about actually building an on-prem to cloud across cloud, to the edge fabric and really making that a unified experience. And there's a data angle too, which I'll talk about now, the data collection methods that you've used on consumers, it's incredibly powerful if applied responsibly and correctly for IOT and edge computing. And I don't mean to trivialize the complexity at the edge. There really isn't one edge it's Telcos and factories and banks and cars. And I know you're in all these places Google because of Android, but there's a new wave of data coming from machines and cars. And it's going to dwarf people's clicks and believe me, Tesla wants to own its own data and Google needs to put forth a strategy that's a win-win. And so far you haven't done that because your head is an advertising. Get your heads out of your ads and cut partners in on the deal. Next, double down on your open source commitment. Kubernetes showed the power that you have in the industry. Ecosystems are going to be the linchpin of innovation over the next decade and transcend products and platforms use your money, your technology, and your position in the marketplace to create the next generation of technology leveraging the power of the ecosystem. Now I know Google is going to say, we agree, this is exactly what we're doing, but I'm skeptical. Now I think you see either the cloud is a tiny little piece of your business. You have to do with Satya Nadella did and completely pivot to the new opportunity, make cloud and the edge your mission bite the bullet with wall street and go dominate a multi-trillion dollar industry. Okay, well there you have it. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcasts, so please subscribe wherever you listen. I publish weekly on Wikibond.com and Siliconangle.com and I post on LinkedIn each week as well. So please comment or DM me @DVollante, or you can email me @David.Vollante @Siliconangle.com. And don't forget to check out etr.plus that's where all the survey action is. This is Dave Vollante for the Cube Insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching everybody be well. And we'll see you next. (upbeat instrumental)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube covering HP Discover virtual experience brought to you by HP. >>Welcome to the Cube's coverage of HP Discover 2020. This is the virtual experience. I'm Lisa Martin with the Cube, and I'm joined by a couple of guys who were gonna talk through one of HPC ease. Longest partnerships. We've got shells. No Ryan and the Senior director Ecosystem Sales or North America at HP And Dr Rajesh, It's really a Boston. The global head of sales and solutions for the TCS. Gentlemen, welcome to the Cube. >>Yeah, Thank you. >>So, first question for you is I mentioned HP and TCS have been partners for over 30 years. Talk to our audience about the partnership and how it has evolved to where it is today. >>Yeah. Thank you, Lisa. Firstly, you know, I'm pretty excited to be part of this Cube interview with garages. You know, I know him personally for over five years through various interactions globally and this new role for North America. This is our strategy and global system integrator partner. And this is a longstanding partnership between HP and this years has grown multi falls over the last 30 years. Ah, we you know, pretty much enjoyed every single I would say transactions or the business engagements, what we've had so far. And we liberate each other for our internal I T requirements and also to drive joint, go to market initiatives across the world. That's making this a truly 3 60 degree partnership. There is a lot of heritage, a mutual trust and respect between both organizations at all levels and the complimentary offerings. You know what you will hear a lot more in the next couple of questions. Uh, we bring to the table together are very unique and very differentiating to the clients which are >>excellent. Dr. Rajesh, walk us through some of those joint offerings that TCS cloud in h e or delivering. >>Yeah, so far. So far. Thanks. I just want to thank the HP team for giving me the opportunity to up to a larger audience. Andi, This new normal. This is the first time I'm doing an interview like this. Thanks for that experience. Actually, as Jules mentioned, this relationship goes a long way. I am talking about the larger PCs were a long relationship, Andi, specifically on the easiest load we started this journey in a very, very practical way. Five years back it was it was started in a very, very small trial and error basis. We started this relationship RPC explode. But at this point in time after So yes, we have taken this into ah, new norm, actually. So I'll give you a couple of examples. One of the examples We have a very major retailer in Germany, which we work so that it was a $1,000,000 deals. Our busiest on GHB. Yes, you wanna unique offering to the customer s AP and a space on that is really growing a lot. And that's the one offering I would like to tell the audience that really has picked up and spent on the relationship in the German region. Right now we are trying to take that up, offering across on other other regions also, so that is one of the key offerings that we are doing it. The other offerings are multiple offerings we are doing. But again, I want to highlight the storage as a service offering. Great. It's everybody in the industry today, Andi, we are experimenting that in the initial stages in Australia we started in Australia a small offering. And now we are expanding it in the US geography in a big way. And this year we are going to make that as a unique offering. And we're going to offer they're all over cloud customers as a storage as a service offering. Also multiple other offering, Lisa. But I just thought that I like this tool which are making our business. We're making a lot of business together with these two offerings >>is the, uh, s AP opportunity that you mentioned is that the Hana as a service that TCS is delivered? >>That's correct. So it's ah, it's a service. But the uniqueness of that particular offering is we jointly created the architecture so that the customer can use that, like a database as a service model. Right? So it was It was not available that time in the industry so easily like what we offered at that point in time to do enough years back. We offer that particular said we spoke a summer and interestingly, that particular offering the customer was using s AP themselves as a service initially, and they migrated their to us actually from Maybe that's a reason they bought HP and TCS. There is like a summer on this API and a platform. So that's the That's the interesting story under, >>if we didn't do that just a little bit further, I wanted the audience to understand the impact that this partnership has H p E and TCS delivering Hana as a service or your customers. What are the benefits there than what the customer, as you said was doing previously? >>Yeah, yeah, I think I just want to highlight the three or four points that make that this offering very unique, and that helps the customer number one is associated with model. So the customer has got the complete flexibility off going up and down like a true cloud model, right? And so it is a really a unique proposition at that point in time, where the customer not a story about using less for some time and then using more sometimes so it's kind of a complete, flexible model that we offered at the time. Number two is, it's a complete customization is possible. It is not like a fixed architecture. The architecture is so flexible so that the customer business needs can be met through the architectural changes. So it's not like normally people think that lotus highly standardized architecture, right? So that has gone out, and we were given a flexible architecture for the customer. That is the number two number three, obviously the cost end of the day. There's a business case which we need to make it work right for the customer. So obviously, with the PCs and HP coming together, we were able to do the costarred, want age with a customer that is the third advantage of that. The last, but not the least, is the quality of service it is it is all about. I always used to tell my partners that selling is easy. Delivering it is what it's important it is, which will make the customer to stick with you, right? The were given and delivery quality experience who our customer s so that I think that makes a very unique proposition from a technology perspective from a pricing. But but from an architecture and also from the delivery perspective. So those are the few few things I just thought that I violated. >>Excellent. So a couple of words that you mentioned popped into my mind as really even more well, have a different meeting as we're in summer 2020 flexibility and unique offering chills back to you from a go to market perspective. How is that relationship with HP? And he says, changing in the Koven era. >>Yeah, it's pretty interesting, and I would like to call it an example off. You know, what we see is is that you themselves during the corporate times, you know, it also came in the in the pets close to 90% of the workforce. We're 100% productive. Uh, and, uh, they have a plan to go 75% of the employees, you know, go being remote by 2025. Right? So that's the journey they're taking on. And another thing that you notice there's a lot of the, you know, During the corporate times, many of the customers were looking for solutions like virtual desktop infrastructure. So they wanted their employees to be productive, bi directional and in the other area of focus was like a TCP, you know, how do I kind of make sure on the applications are available to you? The customers and also do their internal organizations. So we've seen a lot off. I would say engagement with that is I could picture team and also the solution team toe address This requirements off the market joint >>when we look at certain things that now might even be more important with this new normal, if you will, that the fact that most companies are still in phase one of this work, everyone works from home trying to get to a phase to that might see some some maybe by function groups coming back to the office and then getting to this third. Maybe it's the new nirvana of some hybrid workforce, where there's gonna be some that come back permanently, and some that Don't and Tony Unirea chose, I saw was quoted last month as saying he thinks that 50% of the workforce will only 50% will come back. So in this new not only hybrid I T environment in which your customers love it now, this new pending hybrid workforce environment how are you addressing some of the concerns together with respect to the network connectivity security, >>I will just take the cost anything. It's a very, very interesting at least when we all ended up in this pandemic in March. We really very, very nervous, actually, because everyone has to operate remotely on we are. We are dealing with the customer data. It's ah, it's very, very important that we have a secure environment to access the information and at the same time maintain the integrity of the data and also the quality off the plate. Those other two primary objective for us. We don't want to compromise on quality. We don't want to compromise on security from a cloud perspective. So the solution we have put in really, I just give you one example there was on the airline Ah, UK based the airline industry airline company which they need that workforce overnight. They want everybody to go remote because you know you cape on. They just put up condition that nobody can work from the office overnight and then terror ports as toe work from home purchases, implement the solution for them on our clothes overnight and make that 1000 employees store from home the next day morning. All of them started working with full quality of services and also with a full security aspect of it, has been taken care ornate on the solution. We are deployed. Very interesting case study on The important thing we have done is use the technology to the port. Use all kinds of technology to make sure that the employees that work from home we took care of the network connectivity. We took our eye off the security aspects off the data from security aspects. We've implemented all the security functions from really APIs. But people, Children stop perspective. Andi, make the workforce enable that. But now you are talking about millions off millions of workers going to work from home. Right? Because it is one example for one company we have done that now the easiest themselves has got more than 400 1000 employees. And we are talking about millions off our pores, going to work from home on going forward. So that is I'm seeing this as a big opportunity. It's not that everybody has are just this at this point in time, I'm seeing this as an opportunity where on the cloud easiest cloud kind off. The solution is going to help them to achieve this. And this is a great opportunity for not only for PCs, but also for HP because the solution we're putting together with the HP is more on the digital or course how we can enable the people to work from home, not compromising on as I mentioned from a security you're in from millions perspective. So I'm seeing this as an opportunity for both the organization, and it's a long way to go is we need to work on this. It's not. We don't have a magic want to make the millions off workers to work from home, but it is going to have all soon and probably in the next step. Yeah, so we may achieve this, impair people off. The workforce is going to go remotely on this list. So that's that. And my take on this >>is so the impact that HP and TCS Herb being able to make for customers who have had to massively transform their entire workforce overnight, as he said, to work from home to talk about some of the new maybe new solutions or new business opportunities that HPC is partnering with TCS shells, we'll start with you in this new era, >>Yeah, so if you look at it, I just taking it again on extension off of the projects. What he just mentioned about the percentage of employees going remote Lisa across industries today. I would say less than 20% of the employees are actually working remote or they have the ability. But the organizations have the ability to support the employees going, and if you have to take it to 50% so you can look at the kind of opportunity we have both as HP and as PCs. So we bring in a lot of best in breed infrastructure from for enabling the employee workforce to know where it is. I would say capacity off workloads and it's all workload specific. And what business does this or when people Pretty easy as we kind of bundle that creating a reference architecture or a giant architect picture addressing the customers by industry word. So because one what suits for one vertical may not be really suiting well for a different world, right? For example, if you take a banking sector are playing, a workstation solution would look very different from somebody's doing remote work in retail, so we kind of continuously engage with the PCs, and that's where both of us have joint lab as well, where our technologies and pieces technologies come together, working on joint solutions and assisting the market in terms of the opportunity lights. And we offer this as part of A C is our digital workplace offerings. >>Are your conversations Dr Additional go to you or your conversations when you're jointly selling, changing in terms of who your audience is? Is this now a C level conversation? Since these leaders and we've heard leaders of Google and Facebook already last month saying Work from home extended still 2021. Is this now at the C suite level, where you guys are helping them really understand how to completely change and digitize their entire way of doing business? >>Absolutely. I think it's a great question, and it's actually the opportunity goes beyond the work from home solution. As you rightly I want to know that it is. It is all about digitization. It is all about digitizing their whole business process. It is not anymore infrastructure. Our application solution. It is more about really finding that business process be defending. The way the business is going to operate in future is the discussion we are having so a lot of these discussions are happening at a very, very high level and with the business team also directly so earlier, you used to interact with the technology partners off our organization. But now we are interacting directly with the head of business are the C level except of the company. And that is the reason the exact reason is Ah, you. If you want your ports to be productive remotely, you can't just offer them on network on. You can't offer them just a solution to work from home. But you need to really find your whole business process you need. You need to digitize your infrastructure. You need to digitize your application. You need to rethink your whole process off. You're operating on it, so that's what I'm seeing. It's not only an opportunity for our players like a business cloud, but it is the opportunity for a bigger opportunity for PCs. And it should be not only in terms off on infrastructure in our cloud business, it goes beyond that. So that is that is the kind of an opportunity we're seeing, especially in the in the sectors of healthcare you're seeing major reforms are happening in the healthcare industry as we speak, and obviously manufacturing is going to go through a lot of changes. Also from that. And retail obviously has gone through a lot of changes already in terms of online, uh, stuff, but know that also going to go through changes in this new era? Yes, >>I have to ask you shelled, talking about redefining? That's a word that we've seen so many years in a row at tech conferences, right, this technology redefining this business or that industry. And now, of course, we're being redefined by an invisible virus. But how? How is the sales process being redefined? Is it a lot more accelerated because businesses have to put together new plans to continue operations? >>Yeah, again, a great question. Is this how you have? You know, I would say it's divided by industry body. It's not a uniform thing by, as not British was saying, every industry has got its own, its own set of challenges and its own set of opportunities, and some of them are really actually doing well even in times like and some of them have seen, Really. I mean, like, travel our transportation or you know some of those industries are, and even hospitality that's kind of affected big time. So our view of you know, the entire sales engagement of the processes we're spending more time on there. We really need to focus and which can help improve the businesses. Right? So the conversation's ready from How do I take the cost out in terms of how can I make a little more investment to get greater returns from the business? So it's like it's completely, I would say, an interesting pain and engaging compositions and decisions are happening. So we, if you look at us from an automatic perspective, the Internet to the sales team is armed with various virtual tools like we know you zoom views Skype using SMS teens. So all the tools available to make sure that we're able to connect with all our partners and customers on do enable joint business together. >>I just want oh, I add to it, Lisa, 111 point. I want bad, Really interesting change I'm seeing on the sales is normally we respond to it. I asked from a customer that is a sales happens. I want this many days. Do it and then what you can do with a solution that is a normal sales process. What I have seen that has changed completely. Yes, we go and tell the customer, Is this what you need Actually, to make you yourself your business? Better? This is the new offerings I'm having good. And this offering is going to help you to solve the problem what you are having today. So we are engaging a different level off sales conversation today with our customers. We know the problem of the customer because we are working with them for many years and we know exactly what they're going through. And we also know what new offerings we are having in this. So we are engaging the discussion with the customer doing that. This is my new offering. This is going to help you to solve this problem. But that is a different angle of sales we have seen nowadays they spend on it. >>The last question shells to you. We started our interview today talking about the HP TCS relationship. You talked about how it's evolved. Last question. You talked to me about H B's strategy. How does it match TCS Alfa Cloud offering. >>Yeah, so again, a great question, Lisa, if you look at our strategy, is to accelerate the enterprises with it. Centric and cloud enable solutions which are workload up, optimized and delivered everything as a service. And whatever you heard from Dr Rogers through this entire conversation was about how do we give as a service model you gave an example of honor. You gave an example off, you know, going how optimizing workloads for video and getting employees to be able to be productive remotely and all of that kind of extremely resonate well with, you know, what we see is confined to price. Cloud offering is bringing to the table for the customer and the underlying platform. You know, we kind of elaborate extensively and closely with the easiest architecture. Seem to have the HP portfolio off. You know, the compute and storage portfolio integrated as part of their offering, and we go together to market, you know, and addressing and kind of an ask service model. 1,000,000,000. >>Excellent. Well, shells Dr. Rajesh, pleasure talking with you both today about what UCS and H e are doing together and some of the ways that you're really helping businesses move forward in these uncertain times, we appreciate your time. >>Thank you. Thank you for represents. Thanks. Thank >>you. Dr Rajesh. >>My guest. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube's coverage of HP Discover 2020. The virtual experience. Thanks for watching. >>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube covering HP Discover virtual experience brought to you by HP. >>Welcome to the Cube's coverage of HP Discover 2020. This is the virtual experience. I'm Lisa Martin with the Cube, and I'm joined by a couple of guys who were gonna talk through one of HPC ease. Longest partnerships. We've got shells. No Ryan and the senior director Ecosystem sales for North America at HP and Dr Rajesh Boston, the global head of sales and solutions for the TCS. Wow. Gentlemen, welcome to the Cube. >>Thank you. >>So, first question for you, as I mentioned, HP and TCS have been partners for over 30 years. Talk to our audience about the partnership and how it has evolved to where it is today. >>Yeah. Thank you, Lisa. Firstly, you know, I'm pretty excited to be part of this Cube interview with garages. I know. I know him personally for over five years through various interactions globally and this new role for North America. This is our strategy and global system integrator partner. And this is a longstanding partnership between HP and this years has grown multi falls over the last 30 years. We you know, pretty much enjoyed every single I would say transactions or the business engagements, what we've had so far. And we liberate each other for our internal I T requirements and also to drive joint, go to market initiatives across the world. That's making this a truly a 3 60 degree partnership. There is a lot of heritage, a mutual trust and respect between both organizations at all levels and the complimentary offerings. You know what you will hear a lot more in the next couple of questions we bring to the table together are very unique and very differentiating to the clients, which are >>excellent. Dr. Rajesh walk us through some of those joint offerings that TCS cloud in h e or delivering. >>Yeah, so far so far. Thanks. I just want to thank the HP team for giving me the opportunity to off to a larger audience. Andi, This new normal. This is the first time I'm doing an interview like this. Thanks for that experience. Actually, as James mentioned, this relationship goes a long way. I am talking about the larger PCs were a long relationship. Andi, specifically on the easiest flowed. We started this journey in a very, very practical way. Five years back it was it was started in a very, very small trial and error basis. We started this relationship RPC explode. But at this point in time after So yes, we have taken this into, ah, new norm, actually. So I'll give you a couple of examples. One of the examples We have a very major retailer in Germany, which we work so that it was a multi $1,000,000 deals, our busiest on GHB. He has been a unique offering to the customer s AP, and a space on that is really growing a lot. And that's the one offering I would like to tell the audience that really has picked up and spent on the relationship in the German region. Right now we are trying to take that up, offering across on other other regions also, so that is one of the key offerings that we are doing it. The other offerings are multiple offerings we are doing, but again, I want to highlight the storage as a service offering. Great. It's everybody in the industry today, Andi, we are experimenting that in the initial stages in Australia, we started in Australia a small offering. And now we are expanding it in the US geography in a big way. And this year we are going to make that as a unique offering. And we're going to offer they're all over cloud customers as a storage as a service offering. Also, multiple other offering. Lisa. But I just thought that I like this tool which are making our business. We're making a lot of business together with these two offerings >>is the, uh, s AP opportunity that you mentioned is that the Hana as a service that TCS is delivered? >>That's correct. So it's ah, it's a service. But the uniqueness of that particular offering is be jointly created the architecture so that the customer can use that, like a database as a service model. Right? So it was It was not available that time in the industry so easily like what we offered at that point in time to do enough years back. We offer that particular said we spoke a summer and interestingly, that particular offering the customer was using s AP themselves as a service initially, and they migrated their to us actually from Maybe that's a reason they bought HP and PCs. That is like a summer on this API and a platform. So that's the That's the interesting story under, >>if we didn't do that just a little bit further, I wanted the audience to understand the impact that this partnership has H p E and TCS delivering Hana as a service for your customers. What are the benefits there than what the customer, as you said was doing previously? >>Yeah, yeah, I think I just want to relay the three or four points that make that this offering very unique, and that helps the customer number one is associated with model. So the customer has got the complete flexibility off going up and down like a true cloud model, right? And so it is a really a unique proposition at that point in time, where the customer not a story about using less for some time and then using more sometimes. So it's kind of a complete, flexible model that we offered at the time. Number two is, it's a complete customization is possible. It is not like a fixed architecture. The architecture is so flexible so that the customer business needs can be met through the architectural changes. So it's not like normally people think that lotus highly standardized architecture, right? So that has gone out, and we were given a flexible architecture for the customer. That is the number two number three, obviously the cost end of the day. There's a business case which we need to make it work right for the customer. So obviously, with the PCs and HP coming together, we were able to do the costarred, want age with a customer that is the third advantage of that. The last, but not the least, is the quality of service it is it is all about. I always used to tell my partners that selling is easy. Delivering it is what it's important it is, which will make the customer to stick with you, right? The were given and delivery quality experience who our customer s so that I think that makes a very unique proposition from a technology perspective from a pricing, but from an architecture and also from the delivery perspective. So those are the few few things I just thought that I violated. >>Excellent. So a couple of words that you mentioned popped into my mind as really even more well have a different meeting as we're in summer 2020 flexibility and unique. Offering chills back to you from a go to market perspective. How is that relationship with HP? And he says, changing in the Koven era. >>Yeah, it's pretty interesting, and I would like to call it an example off. You know, what we see is is that you themselves during the corporate times, you know, it also came in the pets close to 90% of the workforce. We're 100% productive. Uh, and, uh, they have a plan to go 75% of the employees, you know, but go being remote by 2025. So that's the journey they're taking on. And another thing that you notice there's a lot of the, you know, During the corporate times, many of the customers were looking for solutions like virtual desktop infrastructure. So they wanted their employees to be productive, bi directional and in the other area of focus was like a TCP, you know, how do I kind of make sure on the applications are available to you, the customers and also do their internal organizations? So we've seen a lot off. I would say engagement with that is I could picture team and also the solution team toe address This requirements off the market jointly >>when we look at certain things that now might even be more important with this new normal, if you will, that the fact that most companies are still in phase one of this work, everyone works from home trying to get to a face to that might see some some maybe by function groups coming back to the office and then getting to this third. Maybe it's the new nirvana of some hybrid workforce, where there's gonna be some that come back permanently, and some that Don't and Tony Unirea chose, I saw was quoted last month as saying, I think that 50% of the workforce will only 50% will come back. So in this new not only hybrid I T environment in which your customers love, but now this new pending hybrid workforce environment, how are you addressing some of the concerns together with respect to the network connectivity security, >>I I'll just take the cost anything. It's a very, very interesting at least when we all ended up in this pandemic in March. We really very, very nervous, actually, because everyone has to operate remotely on we are. We are dealing with the customer data. It's ah, it's very, very important that we have a secure environment to access the information and at the same time maintain the integrity of the data and also the quality off the plate. Those other two primary objective for us. We don't want to compromise on quality. We don't want to compromise on security from a cloud perspective. So the solution we have put in really I just give you one example there was on the airline Ah, UK basically are living in the spirit of the company which they need that workforce overnight. They want everybody to go remote because you know you cape on. They just put up a condition that nobody can work from the office overnight on the entire or ports as toe work from home, PTC is implemented the solution for them on our clothes overnight and make that 1000 employees store from home the next day morning all of them started working with the full quality of services and also with a full security aspect of it has been taken care or made on the solution. We are deployed. Very interesting case study on The important thing we have done is use the technology to the poor. Use all kinds of technology to make sure that the employees that work from home we took care of the network connectivity. We took our eye off the security aspects off the data from security aspects. We've implemented all the security functions from a media perspective. Actually stop perspective, Andi. Make the workforce enable that. But now you are talking about millions off millions of workers going to work from home. Right, Because it is one example for one company we have done that note easiest themselves has got more than 400 1000 employees, and we are talking about millions off work force going to work from home on going forward. So that is, I'm seeing this as a big opportunity. It's not that everybody has are just this. At this point in time, I'm seeing this as an opportunity where on the cloud easiest cloud kind off. The solution is going to help them to achieve this, and this is a great opportunity for not only for PCs but also for HP because the solution we're putting together with the HP is more on the digital or course how we can enable the people to work from home, not compromising on as I mentioned from a security you're in from millions perspective. So I'm seeing this as an opportunity for both the organization, and it's a long way to go is we need to work on this. It's not. We don't have a magic want to make the millions off workers to work from home, but it is going to have all soon and probably in the next step. Yeah, so we may achieve this. Impair people's off. The workforce is going to go remotely on this list. So that's that. And my take on this >>is so the impact that HP and TCS herb being able to make for customers who have had to massively transform their entire workforce overnight, as he said, to work from home to talk about some of the new maybe new solutions or new business opportunities that HPC is partnering with TCS shells, we'll start with you in this new era, >>Yeah, so if you look at it, I just taking it again on extension, offered up by just what you just mentioned about the percentage of employees going Lisa across industries today. I would say less than 20% of the employees are actually working remote or they have the ability. But the organizations have the ability to support the employees going, and if you have to take it to 50% so you can look at the kind of opportunity we have both as HP and as PCs. So we bring in a lot of best in breed infrastructure from for enabling the employee workforce to know where it is. I would say capacity off workloads and it's all workload specific. And what business does is over when people pretty easy as we kind of bundle that creating a reference architecture or a giant architect architecture addressing the customers by industry body. So because one what suits for one vertical may not be really suiting well for a different world, right? For example, if you take a banking sector, our traded workstation solution would look very different from somebody's doing remote in a retail. So we kind of continuously engage with the PCs, and that's where both of us have joint lab as well, where our technologies and pieces technologies come together, working on joint solutions and assisting the market in terms of the opportunity lights. And we offer this as part of A C is our digital workplace offerings. >>Are your conversations Dr Additional go to you or your conversations when you're jointly selling, changing in terms of who your audience is? Is this now a C level conversation? Since these leaders and we've heard leaders of Google and Facebook already last month saying Work from home extended still 2021. Is this now at the C suite level, where you guys are helping them really understand how to completely change and digitize their entire way of doing business? >>Absolutely. I think it's a great question, and it's actually the opportunity goes beyond the work from home solution. As you rightly I want to know that it is. It is all about digitization. It is all about digitizing their whole business process. It is not anymore infrastructure. Our application solution. It is more about really finding that business process be defending. The way the business is going to operate in future is the discussion we are having so a lot of these discussions are happening at a very, very high level on with the business team. Also directly, so earlier you used to interact with the technology partners off our organization. But now we are interacting directly with the head of business are the C level except of the company. And that is the reason the exact reason is Ah, you. If you want your ports to be productive remotely, you can't just offer them on network on. You can't offer them just a solution to work from home, But you need to really find your whole business process you need. You need to digitize your infrastructure. You need to digitize your application. You need to rethink your whole process off. You're operating on it, so that's what I'm seeing. It's not only an opportunity for our players like PCs cloud, but it is the opportunity for a bigger opportunity for PCs and be not only in terms off on infrastructure in our cloud business, it goes beyond that. So that is that is the kind of an opportunity we're seeing, especially in the in the sectors of healthcare you're seeing major reforms are happening in the healthcare industry as we speak on, obviously, manufacturing is going to go through a lot of changes. Also from that. And retail obviously has gone through a lot of changes already in terms of online, uh, stuff, but know that also going to goto changes in this new era? Yes, >>I have to ask you shelled talking about redefining? That's a word that we've seen so many years in a row at tech conferences, right, this technology redefining this business or that industry. And now, of course, we're being redefined by an invisible virus. But how is how is the sales process being redefined? Is it a lot more accelerated because businesses have to put together new plans to continue operations? >>Yeah, again, a great question. Is this how you have? You know, I would say it's divided by industry body. It's not a uniform thing. By, as the British was saying, every industry has got its own, its own set of challenges and its own set of opportunities, and some of them are really actually doing well even in times like and some of them have seen, Really. I mean, like, travel our transportation or, you know, some of those industries are and even hospitality that's kind of affected big time. So our view of you know, the entire sales engagement of the processes we're spending more time on there. We really need to focus and which can help improve the businesses. Right? So the conversation's ready from How do I take the cost out in terms of how can I make a little more investment to get greater returns from the business? So it's like it's a completely I would say, an interesting pain and engaging compositions and decisions are happening. So we, if you look at us from an automatic perspective, the sales team is armed with various virtual tools, like We know you zoom views Skype using SMS teens. So all the tools available to make sure that we're able to connect with all our partners and customers on do enable joint business together. >>I just want oh, I add to it, Lisa, 111 point. I want to ride Really interesting change I'm seeing on the sales is normally we respond to ask from a customer that is a sales happens. I want this many days do it and then what you can do with a solution That is the normal sales process. What I have seen that has changed completely. Yes, we go and tell the customer, Is this what you need Actually, to make you yourself your business? Better? This is the new offerings I'm having good. And this offering is going to help you to solve the problem what you are having today. So we are engaging a different level off sales conversation today with our customers. We know the problem of the customer because we are working with them for many years and we know exactly what they're going through. And we also know what new offerings we are having in this. So we are engaging the discussion with the customer doing that. This is my new offering. This is going to help you to solve this problem. But that is a different angle of sales we have seen nowadays in this. A friend of it, >>the last question shells to you. We started our interview today talking about the HP TCS relationship. You talked about how it's evolved. Last question. You talked to me about H B's strategy. How does it match TCS Alfa Cloud offering? >>Yeah, so again, a great question, Lisa, if you look at our strategy is to accelerate the enterprises with it. Centric and cloud enable solutions which are workload optimized and delivered everything as a service. And whatever you heard from Dr Rogers through this entire conversation was about how do we give as a service model you gave an example of Hana? You give an example off, you know, going optimizing workloads for VD I and getting employees to be able to be productive remotely and all of that kind of extremely resonate well with you know, what pieces are defined to. Price cloud offering is bringing to the table for the customer and the underlying platform. You know, we can have yeah, extensively and closely with the easiest architecture being tohave the HP portfolio off. You know, the compute and storage portfolio integrated as part of their offering, and we go together to market, you know, addressing and kind of an ask service model. 1,000,000,000. >>Excellent. Well, shells Dr Rajesh, pleasure talking with you both today about what UCS and H e are doing together in some of the ways that you're really helping businesses move forward in these uncertain times, we appreciate your time. >>Thank you. Thank you. For instance. Thanks. >>Thank you. Dr Rajesh. >>My guest. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube's coverage of HP Discover 2020. The virtual experience. Thanks for watching. >>Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>>live from San Francisco. It's the queue covering our essay conference 2020 San Francisco Brought to you by Silicon Angle Media >>Hey, welcome back here. Ready? Jeff Frick here with the Cube. We're in our 2020 the biggest security conference in the country, if not the world. I guess there's got to be 50,000 people. We'll get the official word tomorrow. It's our sixth year here and we're excited to be back. I'm not sure why. It's 2020. We're supposed to know everything at this point in time with the benefit on inside. We got two people that do. You know a lot. We're excited to have him. My left is Chris Bets is the SVP and chief security officer for Centurylink. Chris, Great to see you. And to his left is Chris Smith, VP Global security Services for Centurylink. Welcome. >>Thank you for having me. >>Absolutely. You guys just flew into town >>just for the conference's great To be here is always a really exciting space with just a ton of new technology coming out. >>So let's just jump into it. What I think is the most interesting and challenging part of this particular show we go to a lot of shows you 100 shows a year. I don't know that there's one that's got kind of the breadth and depth of vendors from the really, really big the really, really small that you have here. And, you know, with the expansion of Moscone, either even packing more women underneath Howard Street, what advice do you give to people who are coming here for the first time? Especially on more than the buyer side as to how do you navigate this place >>when I when I come here and see So I'm always looking at what the new technologies are. But honestly, having a new technology is not good enough. Attackers are coming up with new attacks all the time. The big trick for me is understanding how they integrate into my other solutions. So I'm not so I'm not just focused on the technology. I'm focused on how they all fit together. And so the vendors that have solutions that fit together that really makes a difference in my book. So I'm looking for for products that are designed to work with each other, not just separate >>from a practice standpoint. The theme of IRA say this year is the human element, and for us, if you look at this floor, it's overwhelming. And if you're a CSO of an average enterprise, it's hard to figure out what you need to buy and how to build a practice with all of the emerging tools. So for us core to our practice, I think any mature, 30 security practices having a pro services capability and consulting capability that can be solved this all together, that helps you understand what to buy, what things to piece together and how to make it all work >>right. And it's funny, the human element that is the kind of the global theme. And what's funny is for all the technology it sounds like. Still, the easiest way in is through the person, whether it's a phishing attack or there's a myriad of ways that people are getting him to the human. So that's kind of a special challenge or trying to use technology to help people do a better job. At the end of the day, sometimes you're squishy ISS or easier access point is not a piece of technology, but it's actually a person. It's >>often because We asked people to do the wrong things. We're having them. Focus on security steps. Use email. Security is an easy to grasp example way all go through training every year to teach folks how to make sure that they avoid clicking on the wrong emails for us more often than a year. So the downside of that is arresting people to take a step away from their job and try to figure out how to protect themselves. And is this a bad emails that are really focusing on the job? So that's why it's so important to me to make sure that we've got solutions that help make the human better and frankly, even worse in security. We don't have the staff that we need. And so how do we help Make sure that the right tools are there, that they work together. They automate because asking everybody to take those steps, it's just it's a recipe for disaster because people are going to make mistakes >>right? Let's go a little deeper into the email thing. A friend of mines and commercial real estate, and he was describing an email that he got from his banker describing a wire transfer from one of his suppliers that he has a regular, ongoing making relationship with. You know, it's not the bad pronunciation and bad grammar and kind of the things that used to jump out is an obvious. But he said it was super good to the point where thankfully, you know, it was just this time. But, you know, he called the banker like, did you just send me this thing? So you know where this as the sophistication of the bad guys goes up specifically targeting people, how do you try to keep up with how do you give them the tools to know Woe versus being efficient? I'm trying to get my job done. >>Yeah, for me, it starts with technology. That takes a look. We've only got so many security practitioners in the company. Actually. Defend your email example. We've got to defend every user from those kinds of problems. And so how do I find technology solutions that help take the load off security practitioners so they can focus on the niche examples that really, really well crafted emails and help take that load off user? Because users just not gonna be able to handle that right? It's not fair to ask them. And like you said, it was just poorly time that helped attack. So how do we help? Make sure that we're taking that technology load off, identify the threats in advance and protect them. And so I think one of the biggest things that Chris and I talk a lot about is how to our solutions help make it easier for people to secure themselves instead of just providing only technology technology advantage, >>our strategy for the portfolio and it sort of tied to the complexity. CN This floor is simplicity. So from our perspective, our goal is a network service provider is to deliver threat free traffic to our customers even before it gets to the human being. And we've got an announcement that we launched just a week ago in advance of the show called Rapid Threat Defense. And the idea is to take our mature threat Intel practice that Chris has a team of folks focused on that. We branded black Lotus labs and Way built a machine learning practice that takes all the bad things that we see out in the network and protects customers before it gets to their people. >>So that's an interesting take. You have the benefit of seeing a lot of network traffic from a lot of customers and not just the stuff that's coming into my building. So you get a much more aggregated approach, so tell us a little bit more about that. And what is the Black Lotus Labs doing? And I'm also curious from an industry point of view, you know, it's just a collaboration with the industry cause you guys are doing a lot of traffic. There's other big network providers carrying a lot of traffic. How well do you kind of work together when you identify some nasty new things that you're doing the horizon? And where do you draw the line between better together versus still independent environment? >>When we're talking about making the Internet safer, it's not really to me a lot about competitive environment. It's really about better together. That's one of things I love about the security community. I'm sure you see it every year when you're here. You're talking security practitioners how across every industry security folks work together to accomplish something that's meaningful. So as the largest world's largest global I P we get to see a ton of traffic, and it's really, really interesting we'll be able to put together, you know, at any given point in time. We're watching many tens of thousands of probable malware networks. We're protecting our customers from that. But we're also able to ourselves take down nearly 65 now where networks every month just knock them off the Internet. So identify the command and control, and we take it off the Internet. We work with our partners. We go talk to hosting providers, maybe competitors of ours. And we say, Hey, here's a bad, bad actors bad server that's being used to control now where? Going shut it down. And so the result of that is not only protecting our customers, but more importantly, protecting tens of thousands of customers every month. By removing now where networks that were attacking, that really makes a difference. To me, that's the biggest impact we bring. And so it really is a better together. It's a collaboration story and, of course, for said, we get the benefit of that information as we're developing it as we're building it, we can protect our customers right away while we're building the confidence necessary to take something as dramatic and action as shutting down on our network. Right. Unilaterally, >>Citrix. I was gonna ask you kind of the impact of I o t. Right in this in this crazy expansion of the tax services, when you hear about all the time with my favorite example, somebody told the story of attacking a casino through the connected thermometer in the fish tank in the lobby, which may or may not be true, is still a great story. Great story. But I'm curious, you know, looking at the network, feeding versus the devices connecting that's really in an interesting way to attack this proliferation of attack services. You're getting it before it necessarily gets to all these new points of presence doing it based on the source. For >>us, that's the only way to make it scalable. It is true that automation blocking it before it gets to the azure to a device. It is what will create simplicity and value for our customers. >>Right on the other piece of the automation. Of course, that we hear about all the time is there just aren't enough security professionals, period. So if you don't have the automation. You don't have the machine learning, as you said, to filter low hanging fruit and the focus your resource. If they need to be, you're not going to do it. The bad news is the bad guys, similar tools. So as you look at kind of the increase in speed of automation, the increase in automated connectivity between these devices making decisions amongst each other, how do you see that kind of evolving? But you're kind of role and making sure you stay a step ahead of the bad guys. For >>me, it's not about just automation. It's about allowing smart people to put their brains against hard problems, hard impactful problems and so on. So simply automating is not enough. It's making sure that automation is reducing the the load on people so that they're able to focus on those hard, unique problems really solve all those solutions and, yes, Attackers, Attackers build automation as well. And so if we're not building faster and better than we're falling behind, so like every other part of this race, it's about getting better, faster and why it's so important that technology work together because we're constantly throwing out more tools and if they don't work better together, even if we got incremental automation, these place way still miss overall because it's end to end that we need to defend ourselves and our customers >>layered on what he said. For the foreseeable future, you're gonna need smart security people that help protect your practice. Our goal in automation is take the road tasks out of out of the gate. They live so they can focus on the things that provide the most value protecting their enterprise. >>Right when you're looking, you talked about making sure things work together, for you talked about making sure things work together. How do you decide what's kind of on the top of the top of the stack, where everybody wants to own the single pane of glass? Everybody wants to be the control plane. Everybody wants to be that thing that's on your computer all the time, which is how you work your day to day. How do you kind of dictate what are the top level tools while still going out? And, he said, exploring some of these really cutting edge things out around the fringe, which don't necessarily have a full stack solution that you're going to rely on but might have some cool kind of point solutions if you will, or point products to help you plug some new and emerging holes. Yeah, >>yeah. So for us, yeah, we take security capabilities and we build them into the other things that we sell. So it's not a bolt on. So when you buy things from us, whether whether it's bandwidth or whether its SD wan and security comes baked in, so it's not something you have to worry about integrating later. It's an ingredient of the things that we sell in all of the automation that we build is built into our practice, So it's simple for our customers to understand, like, simple and then layered. On top of that, we've got a couple different ways that we bring pro services and consulting to our practice. So we've got a smart group of folks that could lean into staff, augment and sit on site, do just about anything to help customers build a practice from day zero to something more mature. But now we're toying with taking those folks in building them into products and services that we sell for 10 or 20 hours a month as an ingredient. So you get that consulting wrapper on top of the portfolio that we sell as a service provider. >>Get your take on kind of budgets and how people should think about their budgets. And when I think of security, I can't help but think of like insurance because you can't spend all your money on security. But you want to spend the right amount on security. But at the end of the day, you can't be 100% secure, right? So it's kind of kind of working the margins game, and you have to make trade offs in marketing, wants their money and product development, wants their money and sales, wants their money. So what people are trying to assess kind of the risk in their investment trade offs. What are some of the things they should be thinking about to determine what is the proper investment on security? Because it can't just be, you know, locker being 100% it's not realistic, and then all the money they help people frame that. >>Usually when companies come to us in, Centurylink plays in every different segment, all the way down to, you know, five people company all the way to the biggest multinationals on the planet. So that question is, in the budget is a little bit different, depending on the type of customer, the maturity and the lens are looking at it. So, typically, way have a group of folks that we call security account managers those our consultants and we bring them in either in a dedicated or a shared way. Help companies that's us, wear their practices today in what tool sets for use again things that they need to purchase and integrate to get to where they need to be >>really kind of a needs analysis based on gaps as much as anything else. >>That's part of the reason why we try to build prisons earlier, so many of the technologies into our solution so that so that you buy, you know, SD wan from us, and you get a security story is part of it is that that allows you to use the customer to save money and really have one seamless solution that provides that secure experience. We've been building firewalls and doing network based security for going on two decades now, in different places. So at this point, that is a good place that way, understand? Well, we can apply automation against it. We can dump, tail it into existing services and then allow focused on other areas of security. So it helps. From a financial standpoint, it also helps customers understand from where they put their talent. Because, as you talked about, it's all about talents even more so than money. Yes, we need to watch our budgets. But if you buy these tools, how do you know about the talent to deploy them? And easier You could make it to do that simpler. I think the better off right >>typical way had the most success selling security practices when somebody is either under attacker compromised right, then the budget opens right up, and it's not a problem anymore. So we thought about how to solve that commercially, and I'll just use Vitas is an example. We have a big D dos global DDOS practice that's designed to protect customers that have applications out on the Internet that are business critical, and if they go down, whether it's an e commerce or a trading site losing millions of dollars a day, and some companies have the money to buy that up front and just have it as a service. And some companies don't purchase it from us until they're under attack. And the legacy telco way of deploying that service was an order and a quote. You know, some days later, we turned it up. So we've invested with Christine the whole orchestration layer to turn it up in minutes and that months so you can go to our portal. You can enter a few simple commercial terms and turn it on when you need it. >>That's interesting. I was gonna ask you kind of how has cloud kind of changed the whole go to market and the way people think about it. And even then you hear people have stuff that's secure in the cloud, but they mis configured a switch left something open. But you're saying, too it enables you to deploy in a very, very different matter based on you know, kind of business conditions and not have that old, you know, get a requisite get a p o requisition order, install config. Take on another kind of crazy stuff. Okay, so before I let you go, last question. What are your kind of priorities for this show for Centurylink when it's top of mind, Obviously, you have the report and the Black Lotus. What do you guys really prioritizing for this next week? Here for Cisco. >>We're here to help customers. We have a number of customers, a lot of learning about our solutions, and that's always my priority. And I mentioned earlier we just put out a press release for rapid threat defense. So we're here to talk about that, and I think the industry and what we're doing this little bit differently. >>I get to work with Chris Motions Week with customers, which is kind of fun. The other part that I'm really excited about, things we spent a bunch of time with partners and potential partners. We're always looking at how we bring more, better together. So one of the things that we're both focused on is making sure that we're able to provide more solutions. So the trick is finding the right partners who are ready to do a P I level integration. The other things that Chris was talking about that really make this a seamless and experience, and I think we've got a set of them that are really, really interested in that. And so those conversations this week will be exceptionally well, I think that's gonna help build better technology for our customers even six months. >>Alright, great. Well, thanks for kicking off your week with the Cube and have a terrific week. Alright. He's Chris. He's Chris. I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube. Where? The RSA Conference in downtown San Francisco. Thanks for watching. See you next time. >>Yeah, yeah.

>>live from Miami, Florida It's the Q covering IBM is data in a I forum brought to you by IBM. >>We're back in Miami and you're watching the cubes coverage of the IBM data and a I forum. Tony hi. Amiss here is a distinguished engineer for Ditch the Digital and Cloud Business Analytics at IBM. Tony, first of all, congratulations on being a distinguished engineer. That doesn't happen often. Thank you for coming on the Cube. Thank you. So your area focus is on the B I and the Enterprise performance management space. >>Um, and >>if I understand it correctly, a big mission of yours is to try to modernize those make himself service, making cloud ready. How's that going? >>It's going really well. I mean, you know, we use things like B. I and enterprise performance management. When you really boil it down, there's that's analysis of data on what do we do with the data this useful that makes a difference in the world, and then this planning and forecasting and budgeting, which everyone has to do whether you are, you know, a single household or whether you're an Amazon or Boeing, which are also some of our clients. So it's interesting that we're going from really enterprise use cases, democratizing it all the way down to single user on the cloud credit card swipe 70 bucks a month >>so that was used to be used to work for Lotus. But Cognos is one of IBM's largest acquisitions in the software space ever. Steve Mills on his team architected complete transformation of IBM is business and really got heavily into it. I think I think it was a $5 billion acquisition. Don't hold me to that, but massive one of the time and it's really paid dividends now when all this sort of 2000 ten's came in and said, Oh, how Duke's gonna kill all the traditional b I traditional btw that didn't happen, that these traditional platforms were a fundamental component of people's data strategies, so that created the imperative to modernize and made sure that there could be things like self service and cloud ready, didn't it? >>Yeah, that's absolutely true. I mean, the work clothes that we run a really sticky were close right when you're doing your reporting, your consolidation or you're planning of your yearly cycle, your budget cycle on these technologies, you don't rip them out so easily. So yes, of course, there's competitive disruption in the space. And of course, cloud creates on opportunity for work loads to be wrong, Cheaper without your own I t people. And, of course, the era of digital software. I find it myself. I tried myself by it without ever talking to a sales person creates a democratization process for these really powerful tools that's never been invented before in that space. >>Now, when I started in the business a long, long time ago, it was called GSS decision support systems, and they at the time they promised a 360 degree view with business That never really happened. You saw a whole new raft of players come in, and then the whole B I and Enterprise Data Warehouse was gonna deliver on that promise. That kind of didn't happen, either. Sarbanes Oxley brought a big wave of of imperative around these systems because compliance became huge. So that was a real tailwind for it. Then her duke was gonna solve all these problems that really didn't happen. And now you've got a I, and it feels like the combination of those systems of record those data warehouse systems, the traditional business intelligence systems and all this new emerging tech together are actually going to be a game changer. I wonder if you could comment on >>well so they can be a game changer, but you're touching on a couple of subjects here that are connected. Right? Number one is obviously the mass of data, right? Cause data has accelerated at a phenomenal pace on then you're talking about how do I then visualize or use that data in a useful manner? And that really drives the use case for a I right? Because A I in and of itself, for augmented intelligence as we as we talk about, is only useful almost when it's invisible to the user cause the user needs to feel like it's doing something for them that super intuitive, a bit like the sort of transition between the electric car on the normal car. That only really happens when the electric car can do what the normal car can do. So with things like Imagine, you bring a you know, how do cluster into a B. I solution and you're looking at that data Well. If I can correlate, for example, time profit cost. Then I can create KP eyes automatically. I can create visualizations. I know which ones you like to see from that. Or I could give you related ones that I can even automatically create dashboards. I've got the intelligence about the data and the knowledge to know what? How you might what? Visualize adversity. You have to manually construct everything >>and a I is also going to when you when you spring. These disparage data sets together, isn't a I also going to give you an indication of the confidence level in those various data set. So, for example, you know, you're you're B I data set might be part of the General ledger. You know of the income statement and and be corporate fact very high confidence level. More sometimes you mention to do some of the unstructured data. Maybe not as high a confidence level. How our customers dealing with that and applying that first of all, is that a sort of accurate premise? And how is that manifesting itself in terms of business? Oh, >>yeah. So it is an accurate premise because in the world in the world of data. There's the known knowns on the unknown knowns, right? No, no's are what you know about your data. What's interesting about really good B I solutions and planning solutions, especially when they're brought together, right, Because planning and analysis naturally go hand in hand from, you know, one user 70 bucks a month to the Enterprise client. So it's things like, What are your key drivers? So this is gonna be the drivers that you know what drives your profit. But when you've got massive amounts of data and you got a I around that, especially if it's a I that's gone ontology around your particular industry, it can start telling you about drivers that you don't know about. And that's really the next step is tell me what are the drivers around things that I don't know. So when I'm exploring the data, I'd like to see a key driver that I never even knew existed. >>So when I talk to customers, I'm doing this for a while. One of the concerns they had a criticisms they had of the traditional systems was just the process is too hard. I got to go toe like a few guys I could go to I gotta line up, you know, submit a request. By the time I get it back, I'm on to something else. I want self serve beyond just reporting. Um, how is a I and IBM changing that dynamic? Can you put thes tools in the hands of users? >>Right. So this is about democratizing the cleverness, right? So if you're a big, broad organization, you can afford to hire a bunch of people to do that stuff. But if you're a startup or an SNB, and that's where the big market opportunity is for us, you know, abilities like and this it would be we're building this into the software already today is I'll bring a spreadsheet. Long spreadsheets. By definition, they're not rows and columns, right? Anyone could take a Roan Collin spreadsheet and turn into a set of data because it looks like a database. But when you've got different tabs on different sets of data that may or may not be obviously relatable to each other, that ai ai ability to be on introspect a spreadsheet and turn into from a planning point of view, cubes, dimensions and rules which turn your spreadsheet now to a three dimensional in memory cube or a planning application. You know, the our ability to go way, way further than you could ever do with that planning process over thousands of people is all possible now because we don't have taken all the hard work, all the lifting workout, >>so that three dimensional in memory Cuba like the sound of that. So there's a performance implication. Absolutely. On end is what else? Accessibility Maw wraps more users. Is that >>well, it's the ability to be out of process water. What if things on huge amounts of data? Imagine you're bowing, right? Howdy, pastors. Boeing How? I don't know. Three trillion. I'm just guessing, right? If you've got three trillion and you need to figure out based on the lady's hurricane report how many parts you need to go ship toe? Where that hurricane reports report is you need to do a water scenario on massive amounts of data in a second or two. So you know that capability requires an old lap solution. However, the rest of the planet other than old people bless him who are very special. People don't know what a laugh is from a pop tart, so democratizing it right to the person who says, I've got a set of data on as I still need to do what if analysis on things and probably at large data cause even if you're a small company with massive amounts of data coming through, people click. String me through your website just for example. You know what if I What if analysis on putting a 5% discount on this product based on previous sales have that going to affect me from a future sales again? I think it's the democratizing as the well is the ability to hit scale. >>You talk about Cloud and analytics, how they've they've come together, what specifically IBM has done to modernize that platform. And I'm interested in what customers are saying. What's the adoption like? >>So So I manage the Global Cloud team. We have night on 1000 clients that are using cloud the cloud implementations of our software growing actually so actually Maur on two and 1/2 1000. If you include the multi tenant version, there's two steps in this process, right when you've got an enterprise software solution, your clients have a certain expectation that your software runs on cloud just the way as it does on premise, which means in practical terms, you have to build a single tenant will manage cloud instance. And that's just the first step, right? Because getting clients to see the value of running the workload on cloud where they don't need people to install it, configure it, update it, troubleshoot it on all that other sort of I t. Stuff that subtracts you from doing running your business value. We duel that for you. But the future really is in multi tenant on how we can get vast, vast scale and also greatly lower costs. But the adoptions been great. Clients love >>it. Can you share any kind of indication? Or is that all confidential or what kind of metrics do you look at it? >>So obviously we look, we look a growth. We look a user adoption, and we look at how busy the service. I mean, let me give you the best way I can give you is a is a number of servers, volume numbers, right. So we have 8000 virtual machines running on soft layer or IBM cloud for our clients business Analytics is actually the largest client for IBM Cloud running those workloads for our clients. So it's, you know, that the adoption has been really super hard on the growth continues. Interestingly enough, I'll give you another factoid. So we just launched last October. Cognos Alex. Multi tenant. So it is truly multi infrastructure. You try, you buy, you give you credit card and away you go. And you would think, because we don't have software sellers out there selling it per se that it might not adopt as much as people are out there selling software. Okay, well, in one year, it's growing 10% month on month cigarette Ally's 10% month on month, and we're nearly 1400 users now without huge amounts of effort on our part. So clearly this market interest in running those softwares and then they're not want Tuesdays easer. Six people pretending some of people have 150 people pretending on a multi tenant software. So I believe that the future is dedicated is the first step to grow confidence that my own premise investments will lift and shift the cloud, but multi tenant will take us a lot >>for him. So that's a proof point of existing customer saying okay, I want to modernize. I'm buying in. Take 1/2 step of the man dedicated. And then obviously multi tenant for scale. And just way more cost efficient. Yes, very much. All right. Um, last question. Show us a little leg. What? What can you tell us about the road map? What gets you excited about the future? >>So I think the future historically, Planning Analytics and Carlos analytics have been separate products, right? And when they came together under the B I logo in about about a year ago, we've been spending a lot of our time bringing them together because, you know, you can fight in the B I space and you can fight in the planning space. And there's a lot of competitors here, not so many here. But when you bring the two things together, the connected value chain is where we really gonna win. But it's not only just doing is the connected value chain it and it could be being being vice because I'm the the former Lotus guy who believes in democratization of technology. Right? But the market showing us when we create a piece of software that starts at 15 bucks for a single user. For the same power mind you write little less less of the capabilities and 70 bucks for a single user. For all of it, people buy it. So I'm in. >>Tony, thanks so much for coming on. The kid was great to have you. Brilliant. Thank you. Keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest. You watching the Cube live from the IBM data and a I form in Miami. We'll be right back.

>> Announcer: Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCube. Covering IFS World Conference 2019. Brought to you by IFS. >> Welcome back to Boston everybody you're watching theCube, the leader in live tech coverage. This is day one of the IFS World Conference. I'm Dave Vallante with my co-host Paul Gillen. Melissa Di Donato is here, she's the CEO of SUSE and Jon Roskill is the CEO of Acumatica. Folks, welcome to theCube. >> Thank you so much. >> So you guys had the power panel today? Talking about digital transformation. I got a question for all of you. What's the difference between a business and a digital business? Melissa, I'll give you first crack. >> Before a regular old business and a digital business? Everyone's digital these days, aren't they? I was interviewing the, one of the leaders in Expedia and I said, "Are you a travel company "or are you a digital company? "Like where do you lead with?" And she said to me, "No no, we're a travel company "but we use digital." So it seems like the more and more we think about what the future means how we service our customers, customers being at the core everyone's a digital business. The way you service, the way you communicate the way you support. So whether you're a business or none you're always got to be a digital business. >> You better be a digital business and so-- >> I'm going to take a slightly different tact on that which is, we talk about digital and analog businesses and analog businesses are ones that are data silos they have a lot of systems, so they think they're digital but they're disconnected. And, you know, part of a transformation is connecting all the systems together and getting them to work like one. >> But I think the confict other common thread is data, right? A digital business maybe puts data at the core and that's how they get competitive advantage but, I want to ask you guys about your respective businesses. So SUSE, obviously you compete with the big whale RedHat, you know, the big news last year IBM $34 billion. How did that or will that in your view affect your business? >> It's already affecting our business. We've seen a big big uptake in interest in SUSE and what we're doing. You know, they say that a big part of the install based customers that RedHat and IBM currently have are unhappy about the decision to be acquired by IBM. Whether they're in conflict because we're a very big heavily channel business, right? So a lot of the channel partners are not quite happy about having one of their closest competitors now be, you know, part of the inner circle if you will. And other customers are just not happy. I mean, RedHat had fast innovation, fast pace and thought leadership and now all of a sudden they're going to be buried inside of a large conglomerate and they're not happy about that. So when we look at what's been happening for us particularly since March, we became an independent company now one of the world's largest independent open source company in the world. Since IBM has been taking over from RedHat. And, you know, big big uptake. Since March we became independent we've been getting a lot of questioning. "Where are we, where are we going, what are we doing?" And, " Hey, you know, I haven't heard about SUSE a while "what are you doing now?" So it's been really good news for us really, really good news. >> I mean, we're huge fans of RedHat. We do a lot of their events and-- >> Melissa: I'm a huge fan myself. >> But I tell you, I mean, we know from first hand IBM has this nasty habit of buying companies tripling the price. Now they say they're going to leave RedHat alone, we'll see. >> Yeah, like they said they'd leave Lotus alone and all the others. >> SPSS, you saw that, Ustream, you know one of our platforms. >> What's your view, how do you think it's going to go? >> I don't think it's about cloud I think it's about services and I think that's the piece that we don't really have great visibility on. Can IBM kind of jam OpenShift into its customers you know, businesses without them even really knowing it and that's the near-term cash flow play that they're trying to, you know, effect. >> Yeah, but it's not working for them, isn't though? Because when you look at the install base 90% of their business it's been Linux open source environment and OpenShift is a tag-along. I don't know if that's a real enabler for the future rather than, you know, an afterthought from the past. >> Well, for $34 billion it better be. >> I want to ask you about the cost of shifting because historically, you know if you were IBM, you were stuck with IBM forever. What is involved in customers moving from RedHat to SUSE presumably you're doing some of those migrations style. >> We are, we are doing them more and more in fact, we're even offering migration services ourself in some applications. It depends on the application layer. >> How simple is that? >> It depends on the application. So, we've got some telco companies is very very complex 24/7, you know, high pays, big fat enterprise applications around billing, for example. They're harder to move. >> A lot of custom code. >> A lot of custom code, really deep, really rich they need, you know, constant operation because it's billing, right? Big, fat transactions, those are a little bit more complex than say, the other applications are. Nonetheless, there is a migration path and in fact, we're one of the only open source companies in the world that provides support for not just SUSE, but actually for RedHat. So, if you're a RedHat, for or a well customer that want to get off an unsupported version of RedHat you can come over to SUSE. We'll not just support your RedHat system but actually come up with a migration plan to get you into a supported version of SUSE. >> If it's a package set of apps and you have to freeze the code it's actually not that bad-- >> It's not that bad, no. >> To migrate. All right, Jon I got to ask you, so help us understand Acumatica and IFS and the relationship you're like sister companies, you both the ERP providers. How do you work together or? >> Yeah, so we're both owned by a private equity firm called EQT. IFS is generally focused on $500 million and above company so more enterprise and we're focused on core mid-market. So say, $20 million to $500 million. And so very complementary in that way. IFS is largely direct selling we're a 100% through channels. IFS is stronger in Europe, we're stronger in North America and so they see these as very complementary assets and rather than to, perhaps what's going on with the IBM, RedHat discussion here. Slam these big things together and screw them up they're trying to actually keep us independent. So they put us in a holding company but we're trying to leverage much of each other's goodness as we can. >> Is there a migration path? I mean, for customers who reach the top end of your market can they smoothly get to IFS? >> Yeah, it's not going to be like a smooth you know, turn a switch and go. But it absolutely is a migration option for customers and we do have a set of customers that are outgrowing us you know, we have a number of customers now over a billion dollars running on Acumatica and you know, for a company, we've got one that we're actually talking to about this right now operating in 41 countries global, they need 24/7 support we're not the right company to be running their ERP system. >> On your panel today guys you were talking about, a lot about digital transformations kind of lessons learned. What are the big mistakes you see companies making and kind of what's your roadmap for success? >> I think doing too much too fast. Everyone talks about the digital innovation digital transformation. It's really a business transformation with digital being the underpinning the push forward that carries the business forward, right? And I think that we make too many mistakes with regards to doing too much, too fast, too soon, that's one. Doing and adopting technology for technology's sake. "Oh, it's ML, it's AI." And everyone loves these big buzz words, right? All the code words for what technology is? So they tend to bring it on but they don't really know the outcome. Really really important at SUSE were absolutely obsessed with our customers and during a digital transformation if you remain absolutely sick of anything about your customer at the core of every decision you make and everything you do. Particularly with regards to digital transformation you want to make sure that business outcome is focused on them. Having a clear roadmap with milestones along the journey is really important and ensuring it's really collaborative. We talked this morning about digital natives you know, we're all young, aren't we? Me in particular, but, you know I think the younger generation of digital natives think a little bit differently perhaps than we were originally thinking when we were their age. You know, I depend on that thinking I depend on that integration of that thought leadership infused into companies to help really reach customers in different ways. Our customers are buying differently our customers have different expectations they have different deliverables they require and they expect to be supported in different way. And those digital natives, that young talent can really aid in that delivery of good thought leadership for our businesses. >> So Jon, we're seeing IT spending at the macro slow down a little bit. You know, a lot of different factors going on it's not a disaster, it's not falling off the cliff but definitely pre-2018 levels and one of the theories is that you had this kind of spray-and-pray kind of like Melissa was say, deal was going too fast trying everything and now we're seeing more of a narrow focus on things that are going to give a return. Do you see that happening out there? >> Yeah, definitely some, I mean people are looking for returns even in what's been a really vibrant economy but, you know, I agree with Melissa's point there's a lot of ready, shoot, aim projects out there and, you know, the biggest thing I see is the ones that aren't, the fail that aren't the ones that aren't led by the leadership. They're sort of given off to some side team often the IT team and said, "Go lead digital transformation of the company." And digital transformation you know, Melissa said this morning it's business transformation. You've got to bring the business part of it to the table and you've got to think about, it's got to be led by the CEO or the entire senior leadership team has to be on board and if not, it's not going to be successful. >> So, pragmatism would say, okay, you get some quick hits get some wins and then you got kind of the, you know, Bezos, Michael Dell mindset go big or go home, so what's your philosophy? Moonshots or, you know, quick hits? >> I always think starting you know, you've got to understand your team's capabilities. So starting is something that you can get a gauge of that you know, particularly if you're new and you're walking into an organization, you know. Melissa, I don't know how long you've been in your role now? >> Melissa: 65 days. >> Right, so there you go. So it's probably a good person to ask what, you know, what you're finding out there but I think, you know, getting a gauge of what your resources are. I mean, one of the things you see around here is there are, you know, dozens of partner firms that are, or can be brought into, you know supplement the resources you have in your own team. So being thoughtful in that is part of the approach. And then having a roadmap for what you're trying to do. Like we talked this morning about a customer that Linda had been talking about. Have been working on for six or seven years, right? And you're saying, for an enterprise a very large enterprise company taking six or seven years to turn the battleship maybe isn't that long. >> Okay, so you got the sister company going on. Do you have a commercial relationship with IFS or you just here as kind of an outside speaker and a thought leader? >> I'm here as an outside speaker thought leader. There is talk that perhaps we can you know, work together in the future we're trying to work that out right now. >> I want to ask you about open source business models. We still see companies sort of struggling to come up with, not profitable but, you know, insanely profitable business models based on open source software. What do you see coming out of all this? Is there a model that you think is going to work in the long term? >> I think the future is open source for sure and this is coming from a person who spent 25 years in proprietary software having worked for the larger piece here in vendors. 100% of my life has been dedicated to proprietary software. So whilst that's true I came at SUSE and the open source environment in a very different way as a customer running my proprietary applications on open source Linux based systems. So I come with a little bit different of a, you know, of an approach I would say. The future's open source for sure the way that we collaborate, the innovation the borderless means of which we deliver you know, leadership within our business is much much different than proprietary software. You would think as well that, you know the wall that we hide behind an open source being able to access software anywhere in a community and be able to provide thought leadership masks and hides who the developers and engineers are and instead exacerbates the thought leadership that comes out of them. So it provides for a naturally inclusive and diverse environment which leads to really good business results. We all know the importance of diversity and inclusion. I think there is definitely a place for open source in the world it's a matter providing it in such a way that creates business value that does enable and foster that growth of the community because nothing is better than having two or three or four or five million developers hacking away at my software to deliver better business value to my customers. The commercial side is going to be around the support, right? The enterprise customers would want to know that when bump goes in the night I've got someone I can pay to support my systems. And that's really what SUSE is about protecting our install base. Ensuring that we get them live, all the time every day and keep them running frictionlessly across their IT department. >> Now there's another model, the so-called open core model that holds that, the future is actually proprietary on top of an open base. So are you saying that you don't think that's a good model? >> I don't know, jury's out. Next time that you come to our event which is going to be in March, in Dublin. We're doing our SUSECON conference. Leave that question for me and I'll have an answer for you. I'm pontificating. >> Well I did and-- >> It's a date. The 12th of March. >> It's certainly working for Amazon. I mean, you know, Amazon's criticized for bogarting open source but Redshift is built on open source I think Aurora is built on open source. They're obviously making a lot of money. Your open core model failed for cloud era. Hortonworks was pure, Hortonworks had a model like, you know, you guys and RedHat and that didn't work and now that was kind of profitless prosperity of Hadoop and maybe that was sort of an over head-- >> I think our model, the future's open-source no question. It's just what level of open source within the sack do we keep proprietary or not, it's the case maybe, right? Do we allow open source in the bottom or the top or do we put some proprietary components on top to preserve and protect like an umbrella the core of which is open source. I don't know, we're thinking about that right now. We're trynna think what our future looks like. What the model should look like in the future for the industry. How can we service our customers best. At the end of the day, it's satisfying customer needs and solving business problems. If that's going to be, pure open source or open source with a little bit of proprietary to service the customer best that's what we're all going to be after, aren't we? >> So, there's no question that the innovation model is open source. I mean, I don't think that's a debate, the hard part is. Okay, how do you make money? A bit of open source for you guys. I mean, are you using open source technologies presumable you are, everybody is but-- >> So we're very open API's, who joined three years ago. We joined openapi.org. And so we've been one of the the leading ERP companies in the industry on publishing open API's and then we do a lot of customization work with our community and all of that's going on in GitHub. And so it's all open source, it's all out there for people who want it. Not everybody wants to be messing around in the core of a transaction engine and that's where you get into you know, the sort of the core argument of, you know which pieces should be people modifying? Do you want people in the kernel? Maybe, maybe not. And, you know, this is not my area of expertise so I'll defer to Melissa. Having people would be able to extend things in an open source model. Having people be able to find a library of customizations and components that can extend Acumatica, that's obviously a good thing. >> I mean, I think you hit on it with developers. I mean, that to me is the key lever. I mean, if I were a VM where I'd hire you know, 1000, 2000 open source software developers and say, "Go build next-generation apps and tools "and give it away." And then I'd say, "Okay, Michael Dell make you a hardware "run better in our software." That's a business model, you can make a lot of money-- >> 100% and we're, you know, we're going to be very acquisitive right now, we're looking for our future, right? We're looking to make a mark right now and where do we go next? How can we help predict the outcome next step in the marketplace when it pertains to, you know, the core of applications and the delivery mechanism in which we want to offer. The ease of being able to get thousands of mainframe customers with complex enterprise applications. Let's say, for example to the cloud. And a part of that is going to be the developer network. I mean, that's a really really big important segment for us and we're looking at companies. Who can we acquire? What's the business outcome? And what the developer networks look like. >> So Cloud and Edge, here got to be two huge opportunities for you, right? Again, it's all about developers. I think that's the right strategy at the Edge. You see a lot of Edge activity where somebody trying to throw a box at the Edge with the top down, in a traditional IT model. It's really the devs up, where I think-- >> It is, it is the dev ups, you're exactly right. Exactly right. >> Yeah, I mean, Edge is fascinating. That's going to be amazing what happens in the next 10 years and we don't even know, but we ship a construction edition we've got a customer that we're working with that's instrumenting all of their construction machinery on something like a thousand construction sites and feeding the sensor data into a Acumatica and so it's a way to keep track of all the machines and what's going on with them. You know, obviously shipping logistics the opportunity to start putting things like, you know, RFID tags on everything an instrument to all of that, out at the Edge. And then the issue is you get this huge amount of data and how do you process that and get the intelligence out of it and make the right decisions. >> Well, how do you? When data is plentiful, insights, you know, aren't is-- >> Yeah, well I think that's where the machine learning breakthroughs are going to happen. I mean, we've built out a team in the last three years on machine learning, all the guys who've been talking about Amazon, Microsoft, Google are all putting out machine learning engines that companies can pick up and start building models around. So we're doing one's around, you know inventory, logistics, shipping. We just release one on expense reports. You know, that really is where the innovation is happening right now. >> Okay, so you're not an inventor of AI you're going to take those technologies apply 'em to your business. >> Yeah, we don't want to be the engine builder we want to be the guys that are building the models and putting the insight for the industry on top that's our job. >> All right Melissa, we'll give you the final word and IFS World 2019, I think, is this your first one? >> It's my first one, yeah-- >> We say bumper sticker say when your truck's are pulling away or-- (laughs) >> A bumper sticker would say, "When you think about the future of open source "think about SUSE." (laughing) >> Dave: I love it. >> I'd say in the event, I mean, I'm super-impressed I think it's the group that's here is great the customers are really enthused and you know, I have zero bias so I'm just giving you my perspective. >> Yeah, I mean the ecosystem is robust here, I have to say. I think they said 400 partners and I was pleasantly surprised when I was walking around last-- >> This is your second one, isn't it? >> It's theCubes second one, my first. >> Oh your first, all right, well done. And so what do you think? Coming back? >> I would love to come back. Especially overseas, I know you guys do a bunch of stuff over seas. >> There you go, he wants to travel. >> Dublin in March? >> March the 12th. >> Dublin is a good place for sure so you're doing at the big conference? >> Yep, the big conference center and it's-- >> That is a great venue. >> And not just because the green thing but it's actually because (laughs). >> No, that's a really nice venue, it's modern It's got, I think three or four floors. >> It does, yeah yeah, we're looking forward to it. >> And then evening events at the, you know, the Guinness Storehouse. >> There you go. >> Exactly right. So we'll look forward to hosting you there. >> All right, great, see you there. >> We'll come with our tough questions for you. (laughing) >> Thanks you guys, I really appreciate your time. >> Thanks very much. >> Thank you for watching but right back, right after this short break you're watching theCube from IFS World in Boston be right back. (upbeat music)

>> Live from San Francisco, California, it's theCUBE covering the IBM Chief Data Officer Summit. Brought to you by IBM. >> Hi everybody, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of the IBM Chief Data Officer Event. We're here at Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco at the Centric Hyatt Hotel. This is the 10th anniversary of IBM's Chief Data Officer Summits. In the recent years, anyway, they do one in San Francisco and one in Boston each year, and theCUBE has covered a number of them. I think this is our eighth CDO conference. I'm Dave Vellante, and theCUBE, we like to go out, especially to events like this that are intimate, there's about 140 chief data officers here. We've had the chief data officer from AstraZeneca on, even though he doesn't take that title. We've got a panel coming up later on in the day. And I want to talk about the evolution of that role. The chief data officer emerged out of kind of a wonky, back-office role. It was all about 10, 12 years ago, data quality, master data management, governance, compliance. And as the whole big data meme came into focus and people were realizing that data is the new source of competitive advantage, that data was going to be a source of innovation, what happened was that role emerged, that CDO, chief data officer role, emerged out of the back office and came right to the front and center. And the chief data officer really started to better understand and help companies understand how to monetize the data. Now monetization of data could mean more revenue. It could mean cutting costs. It could mean lowering risk. It could mean, in a hospital situation, saving lives, sort of broad definition of monetization. But it was really understanding how data contributed to value, and then finding ways to operationalize that to speed up time to value, to lower cost, to lower risk. And that required a lot of things. It required new skill sets, new training. It required a partnership with the lines of business. It required new technologies like artificial intelligence, which have just only recently come into a point where it's gone mainstream. Of course, when I started in the business several years ago, AI was the hot topic, but you didn't have the compute power. You didn't have the data, you didn't have the cloud. So we see the new innovation engine, not as Moore's Law, the doubling of transistors every 18 months, doubling of performance. Really no, we see the new innovation cocktail as data as the substrate, applying machine intelligence to that data, and then scaling it with the cloud. And through that cloud model, being able to attract startups and innovation. I come back to the chief data officer here, and IBM Chief Data Officer Summit, that's really where the chief data officer comes in. Now, the role in the organization is fuzzy. If you ask people what's a chief data officer, you'll get 20 different answers. Many answers are focused on compliance, particularly in what emerged, again, in those regulated industries: financial service, healthcare, and government. Those are the first to have chief data officers. But now CDOs have gone mainstream. So what we're seeing here from IBM is the broadening of that role and that definition and those responsibilities. Confusing things is the chief digital officer or the chief analytics officer. Those are roles that have also emerged, so there's a lot of overlap and a lot of fuzziness. To whom should the chief data officer report? Many say it should not be the CIO. Many say they should be peers. Many say the CIO's responsibility is similar to the chief data officer, getting value out of data, although I would argue that's never really been the case. The role of the CIO has largely been to make sure that the technology infrastructure works and that applications are delivered with high availability, with great performance, and are able to be developed in an agile manner. That's sort of a more recent sort of phenomenon that's come forth. And the chief digital officer is really around the company's face. What does that company's brand look like? What does that company's go-to-market look like? What does the customer see? Whereas the chief data officer's really been around the data strategy, what the sort of framework should be around compliance and governance, and, again, monetization. Not that they're responsible for the monetization, but they responsible for setting that framework and then communicating it across the company, accelerating the skill sets and the training of existing staff and complementing with new staff and really driving that framework throughout the organization in partnership with the chief digital officer, the chief analytics officer, and the chief information officer. That's how I see it anyway. Martin Schroeder, the senior vice president of IBM, came on today with Inderpal Bhandari, who is the chief data officer of IBM, the global chief data officer. Martin Schroeder used to be the CFO at IBM. He talked a lot, kind of borrowing from Ginni Rometty's themes in previous conferences, chapter one of digital which he called random acts of digital, and chapter two is how to take this mainstream. IBM makes a big deal out of the fact that it doesn't appropriate your data, particularly your personal data, to sell ads. IBM's obviously in the B2B business, so that's IBM's little back-ended shot at Google and Facebook and Amazon who obviously appropriate our data to sell ads or sell goods. IBM doesn't do that. I'm interested in IBM's opinion on big tech. There's a lot of conversations now. Elizabeth Warren wants to break up big tech. IBM was under the watchful eye of the DOJ 25 years ago, 30 years ago. IBM essentially had a monopoly in the business, and the DOJ wanted to make sure that IBM wasn't using that monopoly to hurt consumers and competitors. Now what IBM did, the DOJ ruled that IBM had to separate its applications business, actually couldn't be in the applications business. Another ruling was that they had to publish the interfaces to IBM mainframes so that competitors could actually build plug-compatible products. That was the world back then. It was all about peripherals plugging into mainframes and sort of applications being developed. So the DOJ took away IBM's power. Fast forward 30 years, now we're hearing Google, Amazon, and Facebook coming under fire from politicians. Should they break up those companies? Now those companies are probably the three leaders in AI. IBM might debate that. I think generally, at theCUBE and SiliconANGLE, we believe that those three companies are leading the charge in AI, along with China Inc: Alibaba, Tencent, Baidu, et cetera, and the Chinese government. So here's the question. What would happen if you broke up big tech? I would surmise that if you break up big tech, those little techs that you break up, Amazon Web Services, WhatsApp, Instagram, those little techs would get bigger. Now, however, the government is implying that it wants to break those up because those entities have access to our data. Google's got access to all the search data. If you start splitting them up, that'll make it harder for them to leverage that data. I would argue those small techs would get bigger, number one. Number two, I would argue if you're worried about China, which clearly you're seeing President Trump is worried about China, placing tariffs on China, playing hardball with China, which is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, I think it's a good thing because China has been accused, and we all know, of taking IP, stealing IP essentially, and really not putting in those IP protections. So, okay, playing hardball to try to get a quid pro quo on IP protections is a good thing. Not good for trade long term. I'd like to see those trade barriers go away, but if it's a negotiation tactic, okay. I can live with it. However, going after the three AI leaders, Amazon, Facebook, and Google, and trying to take them down or break them up, actually, if you're a nationalist, could be a bad thing. Why would you want to handcuff the AI leaders? Third point is unless they're breaking the law. So I think that should be the decision point. Are those three companies, and others, using monopoly power to thwart competition? I would argue that Microsoft actually did use its monopoly power back in the '80s and '90s, in particular in the '90s, when it put Netscape out of business, it put Lotus out of business, it put WordPerfect out of business, it put Novell out of the business. Now, maybe those are strong words, but in fact, Microsoft's bundling, its pricing practices, caught those companies off guard. Remember, Jim Barksdale, the CEO of Netscape, said we don't need the browser. He was wrong. Microsoft killed Netscape by bundling Internet Explorer into its operating system. So the DOJ stepped in, some would argue too late, and put handcuffs on Microsoft so they couldn't use that monopoly power. And I would argue that you saw from that two things. One, granted, Microsoft was overly focused on Windows. That was kind of their raison d'etre, and they missed a lot of other opportunities. But the DOJ definitely slowed them down, and I think appropriately. And if out of that myopic focus on Windows, and to a certain extent, the Department of Justice and the government, the FTC as well, you saw the emergence of internet companies. Now, Microsoft did a major pivot to the internet. They didn't do a major pivot to the cloud until Satya Nadella came in, and now Microsoft is one of those other big tech companies that is under the watchful eye. But I think Microsoft went through that and perhaps learned its lesson. We'll see what happens with Facebook, Google, and Amazon. Facebook, in particular, seems to be conflicted right now. Should we take down a video that has somewhat fake news implications or is a deep hack? Or should we just dial down? We saw this recently with Facebook. They dialed down the promotion. So you almost see Facebook trying to have its cake and eat it too, which personally, I don't think that's the right approach. I think Facebook either has to say damn the torpedoes. It's open content, we're going to promote it. Or do the right thing and take those videos down, those fake news videos. It can't have it both ways. So Facebook seems to be somewhat conflicted. They are probably under the most scrutiny now, as well as Google, who's being accused, anyway, certainly we've seen this in the EU, of promoting its own ads over its competitors' ads. So people are going to be watching that. And, of course, Amazon just having too much power. Having too much power is not necessarily an indication of abusing monopoly power, but you know the government is watching. So that bears watching. theCUBE is going to be covering that. We'll be here all day, covering the IBM CDO event. I'm Dave Vallente, you're watching theCUBE. #IBMCDO, DM us or Tweet us @theCUBE. I'm @Dvallente, keep it right there. We'll be right back right after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> From Boston, Massachusets, it's The Cube. Covering Actifio 2019: Data Driven, Brought to you by Actifio. >> Welcome back to Boston, everybody. We're here at the Intercontinental Hotel at Actifio's Data Driven conference, day one. You're watching The Cube. The leader in on-the-ground tech coverage. My name is is Dave Valante, Stu Minamin is here, so is John Ferrer, my friend Frank Gens is here, he's the Senior Vice President and Chief Analyst at IDC and Head Dot Connector. Frank, welcome to The Cube. >> Well thank you Dave. >> First time. >> First time. >> Newbie. >> Yep. >> You're going to crush it, I know. >> Be gentle. >> You know, you're awesome, I've watched you over the many years, of course, you know, you seem to get competitive, and it's like who gets the best rating? Frank always had the best ratings at the Directions conference. He's blushing but I could- >> I don't know if that's true but I'll accept it. >> I could never beat him, no matter how hard I tried. But you are a phenomenal speaker, you gave a great conversation this morning. I'm sure you drew a lot from your Directions talk, but every year you lay down this, you know, sort of, mini manifesto. You describe it as, you connect the dots, IDC, thousands of analysts. And it's your job to say okay, what does this all mean? Not in the micro, let's up-level a little bit. So, what's happening? You talked today, You know you gave your version of the wave slides. So, where are we in the waves? We are exiting the experimentation phase, and coming in to a new phase that multiplied innovation. I saw AI on there, block-chain, some other technologies. Where are we today? >> Yeah, well I think having mental models of the6 industry or any complex system is pretty important. I mean I've made a career dumbing-down a complex industry into something simple enough that I can understand, so we've done it again now with what we call the third platform. So, ten years ago seeing the whole raft of new technologies at the time were coming in that would become the foundation for the next thirty years of tech, so, that's an old story now. Cloud, mobile, social, big data, obviously IOT technologies coming in, block-chain, and so forth. So we call this general era the third platform, but we noticed a few years ago, well, we're at the threshold of kind of a major scale-up of innovation in this third platform that's very different from the last ten or twelve years, which we called the experimentation stage. Where people were using this stuff, using the cloud, using mobile, big data, to create cool things, but they were doing it in kind of a isolated way. Kind of the traditional, well I'm going to invent something and I may have a few friends help me, whereas, the promise of the cloud has been , well, if you have a lot of developers out on the cloud, that form a community, an ecosystem, think of GitHub, you know, any of the big code repositories, or the ability to have shared service as often Amazon, Cloud, or IBM, or Google, or Microsoft, the promise is there to actually bring to life what Bill Joy said, you know, in the nineties. Which was no matter how smart you are, most of the smart people in the world work for someone else. So the questions always been, well, how do I tap into all those other smart people who don't work for me? So we can feel that where we are in the industry right now is the business model of multiplied innovation or if you prefer, a network of collaborative innovation, being able to build something interesting quickly, using a lot of innovation from other people, and then adding your special sauce. But that's going to take the scale of innovation just up a couple of orders of magnitude. And the pace, of course, that goes with that, is people are innovating much more rapid clip now. So really, the full promise of a cloud-native innovation model, so we kind of feel like we're right here, which means there's lots of big changes around the technologies, around kind of the world of developers and apps, AI is changing, and of course, the industry structure itself. You know the power positions, you know, a lot of vendors have spent a lot of energy trying to protect the power positions of the last thirty years. >> Yeah so we're getting into some of that. So, but you know, everybody talks about digital transformation, and they kind of roll their eyes, like it's a big buzzword, but it's real. It's dataware at a data-driven conference. And data, you know, being at the heart of businesses means that you're seeing businesses transition industries, or traverse industries, you know, Amazon getting into groceries, Apple getting into content, Amazon as well, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, so, my question is, what's a tech company? I mean, you know, Bennyhoff says that, you know, every company's a sass company, and you're certainly seeing that, and it's got to be great for your business. >> Yeah, yeah absolutely >> Quantifying all those markets, but I mean, the market that you quantify is just it's every company now. Banks, insurance companies, grocers, you know? Everybody is a tech company. >> I think, yeah, that's a hundred percent right. It is that this is the biggest revolution in the economy, you know, for many many decades. Or you might say centuries even. Is yeah, whoever put it, was it Mark Andreson or whoever used to talk about software leading the world, we're in the middle of that. Only, software now is being delivered in the form of digital or cloud services so, you know, every company is a tech company. And of course it really raises the question, well what are tech companies? You know, they need to kind of think back about where does our value add? But it is great. It's when we look at the world of clouds, one of the first things we observed in 2007, 2008 was, well, clouds wasn't just about S3 storage clouds, or salesforce.com's softwares and service. It's a model that can be applied to any industry, any company, any offering. And of course we've seen all these startups whether it's Uber or Netflix or whoever it is, basically digital innovation in every single industry, transforming that industry. So, to me that's the exciting part is if that model of transforming industries through the use of software, through digital technology. In that kind of experimentation stage it was mainly a startup story. All those unicorns. To me the multiplied innovation chapter, it's about- (audio cuts out) finally, you know, the cities, the Procter & Gambles, the Walmarts, the John Deere's, they're finally saying hey, this cloud platform and digital innovation, if we can do that in our industry. >> Yeah, so intrapreneurship is actually, you know, starting to- >> Yeah. >> So you and I have seen a lot of psychos, we watched the you know, the mainframe wave get crushed by the micro-processor based revolution, IDC at the time spent a lot of time looking at that. >> Vacuum tubes. >> Water coolant is back. So but the industry has marched to the cadence of Moore's Law forever. Even Thomas Friedman when he talks about, you know, his stuff and he throws in Moore's Law. But no longer Moore's Law the sort of engine of innovation. There's other factors. So what's the innovation cocktail looking forward over the next ten years? You've talked about cloud, you know, we've talked about AI, what's that, you know, sandwich, the innovation sandwich look like? >> Yeah so to me I think it is the harnessing of all this flood of technologies, again, that are mainly coming off the cloud, and that parade is not stopping. Quantum, you know, lots of other technologies are coming down the pipe. But to me, you know, it is the mixture of number one the cloud, public cloud stacks being able to travel anywhere in the world. So take the cloud on the road. So it's even, I would say, not even just scale, I think of, that's almost like a mount of compute power. Which could happen inside multiple hyperscale data centers. I'm also thinking about scale in terms of the horizontal. >> Bringing that model anywhere. >> Take me out to the edge. >> Wherever your data lives. >> Take me to a Carnival cruise ship, you know, take me to, you know, an apple-powered autonomous car, or take me to a hospital or a retail store. So the public cloud stacks where all the innovation is basically happening in the industry. Jail-breaking that out so it can come, you know it's through Amazon, AWS Outpost, or Ajerstack, or Google Anthos, this movement of the cloud guys, to say we'll take public cloud innovation wherever you need it. That to me is a big part of the cocktail because that's you know, basically the public clouds have been the epicenter of most tech innovation the last three or four years, so, that's very important. I think, you know just quickly, the other piece of the puzzle is the revolution that's happening in the modularity of apps. So the micro services revolution. So, the building of new apps and the refactoring of old apps using containers, using servos technologies, you know, API lifecycle management technologies, and of course, agile development methods. Kind of getting to this kind of iterative sped up deployment model, where people might've deployed new code four times a year, they're now deploying it four times a minute. >> Yeah right. >> So to me that's- and kind of aligned with that is what I was mentioning before, that if you can apply that, kind of, rapid scale, massive volume innovation model and bring others into the party, so now you're part of a cloud-connected community of innovators. And again, that could be around a Github, or could be around a Google or Amazon, or it could be around, you know, Walmart. In a retail world. Or an Amazon in retail. Or it could be around a Proctor & Gamble, or around a Disney, digital entertainment, you know, where they're creating ecosystems of innovators, and so to me, bringing people, you know, so it's not just these technologies that enable rapid, high-volume modular innovation, but it's saying okay now plugging lots of people's brains together is just going to, I think that, here's the- >> And all the data that throws off obviously. >> Throws a ton of data, but, to me the number we use it kind of is the punchline for, well where does multiplied innovation lead? A distributed cloud, this revolution in distributing modular massive scale development, that we think the next five years, we'll see as many new apps developed and deploye6d as we saw developed and deployed in the last forty years. So five years, the next five years, versus the last forty years, and so to me that's, that is the revolution. Because, you know, when that happens that means we're going to start seeing that long tail of used cases that people could never get to, you know, all the highly verticalized used cases are going to be filled, you know we're going to finally a lot of white space has been white for decades, is going to start getting a lot of cool colors and a lot of solutions delivered to them. >> Let's talk about some of the macro stuff, I don't know the exact numbers, but it's probably three trillion, maybe it's four trillion now, big market. You talked today about the market's going two x GDP. >> Yeah. >> For the tech market, that is. Why is it that the tech market is able to grow at a rate faster than GDP? And is there a relationship between GDP and tech growth? >> Yeah, well, I think, we are still, while, you know, we've been in tech, talk about those apps developed the last forty years, we've both been there, so- >> And that includes the iPhone apps, too, so that's actually a pretty impressive number when you think about the last ten years being included in that number. >> Absolutely, but if you think about it, we are still kind of teenagers when you think about that Andreson idea of software eating the world. You know, we're just kind of on the early appetizer, you know, the sorbet is coming to clear our palates before we go to the next course. But we're not even close to the main course. And so I think when you look at the kind of, the percentage of companies and industry process that is digital, that has been highly digitized. We're still early days, so to me, I think that's why. That the kind of the steady state of how much of an industry is kind of process and data flow is based on software. I'll just make up a number, you know, we may be a third of the way to whatever the steady state is. We've got two-thirds of the way to go. So to me, that supports growth of IT investment rising at double the rate of overall. Because it's sucking in and absorbing and transforming big pieces of the existing economy, >> So given the size of the market, given that all companies are tech companies. What are your thoughts on the narrative right now? You're hearing a lot of pressure from, you know, public policy to break up big tech. And we saw, you know you and I were there when Microsoft, and I would argue, they were, you know, breaking the law. Okay, the Department of Justice did the right thing, and they put handcuffs on them. >> Yeah. >> But they never really, you know, went after the whole breakup scenario, and you hear a lot of that, a lot of the vitriol. Do you think that makes sense? To break up big tech and what would the result be? >> You don't think I'm going to step on those land mines, do you? >> Okay well I've got an opinion. >> Alright I'll give you mine then. Alright, since- >> I mean, I'll lay it out there, I just think if you break up big tech the little techs are going to get bigger. It's going to be like AT&T all over again. The other thing I would add is if you want to go after China for, you know, IP theft, okay fine, but why would you attack the AI leaders? Now, if they're breaking the law, that should not be allowed. I'm not for you know, monopolistic, you know, illegal behavior. What are your thoughts? >> Alright, you've convinced me to answer this question. >> We're having a conversation- >> Nothing like a little competitive juice going. You're totally wrong. >> Lay it out for me. >> No, I think, but this has been a recurring pattern, as you were saying, it even goes back further to you know, AT&T and people wanting to connect other people to the chiraphone, and it goes IBM mainframes, opening up to peripherals. Right, it goes back to it. Exactly. It goes back to the wheel. But it's yeah, to me it's a valid question to ask. And I think, you know, part of the story I was telling, that multiplied innovation story, and Bill Joy, Joy's Law is really about platform. Right? And so when you get aggregated portfolio of technical capabilities that allow innovation to happen. Right, so the great thing is, you know, you typically see concentration, consolidation around those platforms. But of course they give life to a lot of competition and growth on top of them. So that to me is the, that's the conundrum, because if you attack the platform, you may send us back into this kind of disaggregated, less creative- so that's the art, is to take the scalpel and figure out well, where are the appropriate boundaries for, you know, putting those walls, where if you're in this part of the industry, you can't be in this. So, to me I think one, at least reasonable way to think about it is, so for example, if you are a major cloud platform player, right, you're providing all of the AI services, the cloud services, the compute services, the block-chain services, that a lot of the sass world is using. That, somebody could argue, well, if you get too strong in the sass world, you then could be in a position to give yourself favorable position from the platform. Because everyone in the sass world is depending on the platform. So somebody might say you can't be in. You know, if you're in the sass position you'll have to separate that from the platform business. But I think to me, so that's a logical way to do it, but I think you also have to ask, well, are people actually abusing? Right, so I- >> I think it's a really good question. >> I don't think it's fair to just say well, theoretically it could be abused. If the abuse is not happening, I don't think you, it's appropriate to prophylactically, it's like go after a crime before it's committed. So I think, the other thing that is happening is, often these monopolies or power positions have been about economic power, pricing power, I think there's another dynamic happening because consumer date, people's data, the Facebook phenomenon, the Twitter and the rest, there's a lot of stuff that's not necessarily about pricing, but that's about kind of social norms and privacy that I think are at work and that we haven't really seen as big a factor, I mean obviously we've had privacy regulation is Europe with GDPR and the rest, obviously in check, but part of that's because of the social platforms, so that's another vector that is coming in. >> Well, you would like to see the government actually say okay, this is the framework, or this is what we think the law should be. I mean, part of it is okay, Facebook they have incentive to appropriate our data and they get, okay, and maybe they're not taking enough responsibility for. But I to date have not seen the evidence as we did with, you know, Microsoft wiping out, you know, Lotus, and Novel, and Word Perfect through bundling and what it did to Netscape with bundling the browser and the price practices that- I don't see that, today, maybe I'm just missing it, but- >> Yeah I think that's going to be all around, you know, online advertising, and all that, to me that's kind of the market- >> Yeah, so Google, some of the Google stuff, that's probably legit, and that's fine, they should stop that. >> But to me the bigger issue is more around privacy.6 You know, it's a social norm, it's societal, it's not an economic factor I think around Facebook and the social platforms, and I think, I don't know what the right answer is, but I think certainly government it's legitimate for those questions to be asked. >> Well maybe GDPR becomes that framework, so, they're trying to give us the hook but, I'm having too much fun. So we're going to- I don't know how closely you follow Facebook, I mean they're obviously big tech, so Facebook has this whole crypto-play, seems like they're using it for driving an ecosystem and making money. As opposed to dealing with the privacy issue. I'd like to see more on the latter than the former, perhaps, but, any thoughts on Facebook and what's going on there with their crypto-play? >> Yeah I don't study them all that much so, I am fascinated when Mark Zuckerberg was saying well now our key business now is about privacy, which I find interesting. It doesn't feel that way necessarily, as a consumer and an observer, but- >> Well you're on Facebook, I'm on Facebook, >> Yeah yeah. >> Okay so how about big IPOs, we're in the tenth year now of this huge, you know, tail-wind for tech. Obviously you have guys like Uber, Lyft going IPO,6 losing tons of money. Stocks actually haven't done that well which is kind of interesting. You saw Zoom, you know, go public, doing very well. Slack is about to go public. So there's really a rush to IPO. Your thoughts on that? Is this sustainable? Or are we kind of coming to the end here? >> Yeah so, I think in part, you know, predicting the stock market waves is a very tough thing to do, but I think one kind of secular trend is going to be relevant for these tech IPOs is what I was mentioning earlier, is that we've now had a ten, twelve year run of basically startups coming in and reinventing industries while the incumbents in the industries are basically sitting on their hands, or sleeping. So to me the next ten years, those startups are going to, not that, I mean we've seen that large companies waking up doesn't necessarily always lead to success but it feels to me like it's going to be a more competitive environment for all those startups Because the incumbents, not all of them, and maybe not even most of them, but some decent portion of them are going to wind up becoming digital giants in their own industry. So to me I think that's a different world the next ten years than the last ten. I do think one important thing, and I think around acquisitions MNA, and we saw it just the last few weeks with Google Looker and we saw Tab Low with Salesforce, is if that, the mega-cloud world of Microsoft, Ajer, and Amazon, Google. That world is clearly consolidating. There's room for three or four global players and that game is almost over. But there's another power position on top of that, which is around where did all the app, business app guys, all the suite guys, SAP, Oracle, Salesforce, Adobe, Microsoft, you name it. Where did they go? And so we see, we think- >> Service Now, now kind of getting big. >> Absolutely, so we're entering a intensive period, and I think again, the Tab Low and Looker is just an example where those companies are all stepping on the gas to become better platforms. So apps as platforms, or app portfolio as platforms, so, much more of a data play, analytics play, buying other pieces of the app portfolio, that they may not have. And basically scaling up to become the business process platforms and ecosystems there. So I think we are just at the beginning of that, so look for a lot of sass companies. >> And I wonder if Amazon could become a platform for developers to actually disrupt those traditional sass guys. It's not obvious to me how those guys get disrupted, and I'm thinking, everybody says oh is Amazon going to get into the app space? Maybe some day if they happen to do a cam expans6ion, But it seems to me that they become a platform fo6r new apps you know, your apps explosion.6 At the edge, obviously, you know, local. >> Well there's no question. I think those appcentric apps is what I'd call that competition up there and versus kind of a mega cloud. There's no question the mega cloud guys. They've already started launching like call center, contact center software, they're creeping up into that world of business apps so I don't think they're going to stop and so I think that that is a reasonable place to look is will they just start trying to create and effect suites and platforms around sass of their own. >> Startups, ecosystems like you were saying. Alright, I got to give you some rapid fire questions here, so, when do you think, or do you think, no, I'm going to say when you think, that owning and driving your own car will become the exception, rather than the norm? Buy into the autonomous vehicles hype? Or- >> I think, to me, that's a ten-year type of horizon. >> Okay, ten plus, alright. When will machines be able to make better diagnosis than than doctors? >> Well, you could argue that in some fields we're almost there, or we're there. So it's all about the scope of issue, right? So if it's reading a radiology, you know, film or image, to look for something right there, we're almost there. But for complex cancers or whatever that's going to take- >> One more dot connecting question. >> Yeah yeah. >> So do you think large retail stores will essentially disappear? >> Oh boy that's a- they certainly won't disappear, but I think they can so witness Apple and Amazon even trying to come in, so it feels that the mix is certainly shifting, right? So it feels to me that the model of retail presence, I think that will still be important. Touch, feel, look, socialize. But it feels like the days of, you know, ten thousand or five thousand store chains, it feels like that's declining in a big way. >> How about big banks? You think they'll lose control of the payment systems? >> I think they're already starting to, yeah, so, I would say that is, and they're trying to get in to compete, so I think that is on its way, no question. I think that horse is out of the barn. >> So cloud, AI, new apps, new innovation cocktails, software eating the world, everybody is a tech company. Frank Gens, great to have you. >> Dave, always great to see you. >> Alright, keep it right there buddy. You're watching The Cube, from Actifio: Data Driven nineteen. We'll be right back right after this short break. (bouncy electronic music)

>> Live from New York, It's theCUBE! Covering theCUBE New York City 2018. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello and welcome back to theCUBE live in New York City, here for CUBE NYC. In conjunct with Strata Conference, Strata Data, Strata Hadoop This is our ninth year covering the big data ecosystem which has evolved into machine learning, A.I., data science, cloud, a lot of great things happening all things data, impacting all businesses I'm John Furrier, your host with Dave Vellante and Peter Burris, Peter is filling in for Dave Vellante. Next guest, Stephanie McReynolds who is the CMO, VP of Marketing for Alation, thanks for joining us. >> Thanks for having me. >> Good to see you. So you guys have a pretty spectacular exhibit here in New York. I want to get to that right away, top story is Attack of the Bots. And you're showing a great demo. Explain what you guys are doing in the show. >> Yah, well it's robot fighting time in our booth, so we brought a little fun to the show floor my kids are.. >> You mean big data is not fun enough? >> Well big data is pretty fun but occasionally you got to get your geek battle on there so we're having fun with robots but I think the real story in the Alation booth is about the product and how machine learning data catalogs are helping a whole variety of users in the organization everything from improving analyst productivity and even some business user productivity of data to then really supporting data scientists in their work by helping them to distribute their data products through a data catalog. >> You guys are one of the new guard companies that are doing things that make it really easy for people who want to use data, practitioners that the average data citizen has been called, or people who want productivity. Not necessarily the hardcore, setting up clusters, really kind of like the big data user. What's that market look like right now, has it met your expectations, how's business, what's the update? >> Yah, I think we have a strong perspective that for us to close the final mile and get to real value out of the data, it's a human challenge, there's a trust gap with managers. Today on stage over at STRATA it was interesting because Google had a speaker and it wasn't their chief data officer it was their chief decision scientist and I think that reflects what that final mile is is that making decisions and it's the trust gap that managers have with data because they don't know how the insides are coming to them, what are all the details underneath. In order to be able to trust decisions you have to understand who processed the data, what decision making criteria did they use, was this data governed well, are we introducing some bias into our algorithms, and can that be controlled? And so Alation becomes a platform for supporting getting answers to those issues. And then there's plenty of other companies that are optimizing the performance of those QUERYS and the storage of that data, but we're trying to really to close that trust gap. >> It's very interesting because from a management standpoint we're trying to do more evidence based management. So there's a major trend in board rooms, and executive offices to try to find ways to acculturate the executive team to using data, evidence based management healthcare now being applied to a lot of other domains. We've also historically had a situation where the people who focused or worked with the data was a relatively small coterie of individuals that crave these crazy systems to try to bring those two together. It sounds like what you're doing, and I really like the idea of the data scientists, being able to create data products that then can be distributed. It sounds like you're trying to look at data as an asset to be created, to be distributed so they can be more easily used by more people in your organization, have we got that right? >> Absolutely. So we're now seeing we're in just over a hundred production implementations of Alation, at large enterprises, and we're now seeing those production implementations get into the thousands of users. So this is going beyond those data specialists. Beyond the unicorn data scientists that understand the systems and math and technology. >> And business. >> And business, right. In business. So what we're seeing now is that a data catalog can be a point of collaboration across those different audiences in an enterprise. So whereas three years ago some of our initial customers kept the data catalog implementations small, right. They were getting access to the specialists to this catalog and asked them to certify data assets for others, what were starting to see is a proliferation of creation of self service data assets, a certification process that now is enterprise-wide, and thousands of users in these organizations. So Ebay has over a thousand weekly logins, Munich Reinsurance was on stage yesterday, their head of data engineering said they have 2,000 users on Alation at this point on their data lake, Fiserv is going to speak on Thursday and they're getting up to those numbers as well, so we see some really solid organizations that are solving medical, pharmaceutical issues, right, the largest re insurer in the world leading tech companies, starting to adopt a data catalog as a foundation for how their going to make those data driven decisions in the organization. >> Talk about how the product works because essentially you're bringing kind of the decision scientists, for lack of a better word, and productivity worker, almost like a business office suite concept, as a SAS, so you got a SAS model that says "Hey you want to play with data, use it but you have to do some front end work." Take us through how you guys roll out the platform, how are your customers consuming the service, take us through the engagement with customers. >> I think for customers, the most interesting part of this product is that it displays itself as an application that anyone can use, right? So there's a super familiar search interface that, rather than bringing back webpages, allows you to search for data assets in your organization. If you want more information on that data asset you click on those search results and you can see all of the information of how that data has been used in the organization, as well as the technical details and the technical metadata. And I think what's even more powerful is we actually have a recommendation engine that recommends data assets to the user. And that can be plugged into Tablo and Salesworth, Einstein Analytics, and a whole variety of other data science tools like Data Haiku that you might be using in your organization. So this looks like a very easy to use application that folks are familiar with that you just need a web browser to access, but on the backend, the hard work that's happening is the automation that we do with the platform. So by going out and crawling these source systems and looking at not just the technical descriptions of data, the metadata that exists, but then being able to understand by parsing the sequel weblogs, how that data is actually being used in the organization. We call it behavior I.O. by looking at the behaviors of how that data's being used, from those logs, we can actually give you a really good sense of how that data should be used in the future or where you might have gaps in governing that data or how you might want to reorient your storage or compute infrastructure to support the type of analytics that are actually being executed by real humans in your organization. And that's eye opening to a lot of I.T. sources. >> So you're providing insights to the data usage so that the business could get optimized for whether it's I.T. footprint component, or kinds of use cases, is that kind of how it's working? >> So what's interesting is the optimization actually happens in a pretty automated way, because we can make recommendations to those consumers of data of how they want to navigate the system. Kind of like Google makes recommendations as you browse the web, right? >> If you misspell something, "Oh did you mean this", kind of thing? >> "Did you mean this, might you also be interested in this", right? It's kind of a cross between Google and Amazon. Others like you may have used these other data assets in the past to determine revenue for that particular region, have you thought about using this filter, have you thought about using this join, did you know that you're trying to do analysis that maybe the sales ops guy has already done, and here's the certified report, why don't you just start with that? We're seeing a lot of reuse in organizations, wherein the past I think as an industry when Tablo and Click and all these B.I tools that were very self service oriented started to take off it was all about democratizing visualization by letting every user do their own thing and now we're realizing to get speed and accuracy and efficiency and effectiveness maybe there's more reuse of the work we've already done in existing data assets and by recommending those and expanding the data literacy around the interpretation of those, you might actually close this trust gap with the data. >> But there's one really important point that you raised, and I want to come back to it, and that is this notion of bias. So you know, Alation knows something about the data, knows a lot about the metadata, so therefore, I don't want to say understands, but it's capable of categorizing data in that way. And you're also able to look at the usage of that data by parsing some of sequel statements and then making a determination of the data as it's identified is appropriately being used based on how people are actually applying it so you can identify potential bias or potential misuse or whatever else it might be. That is an incredibly important thing. As you know John, we had an event last night and one of the things that popped up is how do you deal with emergence in data science in A.I, etc. And what methods do you put in place to actually ensure that the governance model can be extended to understand how those things are potentially in a very soft way, corrupting the use of the data. So could you spend a little bit more time talking about that because it's something a lot of people are interested in, quite frankly we don't know about a lot of tools that are doing that kind of work right now. It's an important point. >> I think the traditional viewpoint was if we just can manage the data we will be able to have a govern system. So if we control the inputs then well have a safe environment, and that was kind of like the classic single source of truth, data warehouse type model. >> Stewards of the data. >> What we're seeing is with the proliferation of sources of data and how quickly with IOT and new modern sources, data is getting created, you're not able to manage data at that point of that entry point. And it's not just about systems, it's about individuals that go on the web and find a dataset and then load it into a corporate database, right? Or you merge an Excel file with something that in a database. And so I think what we see happening, not only when you look at bias but if you look at some of the new regulations like [Inaudible] >> Sure. Ownership, [Inaudible] >> The logic that you're using to process that data, the algorithm itself can be biased, if you have a biased training data site that you feed it into a machine learning algorithm, the algorithm itself is going to be biased. And so the control point in this world where data is proliferating and we're not sure we can control that entirely, becomes the logic embedded in the algorithm. Even if that's a simple sequel statement that's feeding a report. And so Alation is able to introspect that sequel and highlight that maybe there is bias at work and how this algorithm is composed. So with GDPR the consumer owns their own data, if they want to pull it out from a training data set, you got to rerun that algorithm without that consumer data and that's your control point then going forward for the organization on different governance issues that pop up. >> Talk about the psychology of the user base because one of the things that shifted in the data world is a few stewards of data managed everything, now you've got a model where literally thousands of people of an organization could be users, productivity users, so you get a social component in here that people know who's doing data work, which in a way, creates a new persona or class of worker. A non techy worker. >> Yeah. It's interesting if you think about moving access to the data and moving the individuals that are creating algorithms out to a broader user group, what's important, you have to make sure that you're educating and training and sharing knowledge with that democratized audience, right? And to be able to do that you kind of want to work with human psychology, right? You want to be able to give people guidance in the course of their work rather than have them memorize a set of rules and try to remember to apply those. If you had a specialist group you can kind of control and force them to memorize and then apply, the more modern approach is to say "look, with some of these machine learning techniques that we have, why don't we make a recommendation." What you're going to do is introduce bias into that calculation. >> And we're capturing that information as you use the data. >> Well were also making a recommendation to say "Hey do you know you're doing this? Maybe you don't want to do that." Most people are using the data are not bad actors. They just can't remember all the rule sets to apply. So what were trying to do is cut someone behaviorally in the act before they make that mistake and say hey just a bit of a reminder, a bit of a coaching moment, did you know what you're doing? Maybe you can think of another approach to this. And we've found that many organizations that changes the discussion around data governance. It's no longer this top down constraint to finding insight, which frustrates an audience, is trying to use that data. It's more like a coach helping you improve and then social aspect of wanting to contribute to the system comes into play and people start communicating, collaborating, the platform and curating information a little bit. >> I remember when Microsoft Excel came out, the spreadsheet, or Lotus 123, oh my God, people are going to use these amazing things with spreadsheets, they did. You're taking a similar approach with analytics, much bigger surface area of work to kind of attack from a data perspective, but in a way kind of the same kind of concept, put the hands of the users, have the data in their hands so to speak. >> Yeah, enable everyone to make data driven decisions. But make sure that they're interpreting that data in the right way, right? Give them enough guidance, don't let them just kind of attack the wild west and fair it out. >> Well looking back at the Microsoft Excel spreadsheet example, I remember when a finance department would send a formatted spreadsheet with all the rules for how to use it out of 50 different groups around the world, and everyone figured out that you can go in and manipulate the macros and deliver any results they want. And so it's that same notion, you have to know something about that, but this site, in many respects Stephanie you're describing a data governance model that really is more truly governance, that if we think about a data asset it's how do we mediate a lot of different claims against that set of data so that its used appropriately, so its not corrupted, so that it doesn't effect other people, but very importantly so that the out6comes are easier to agree upon because there's some trust and there's some valid behaviors and there's some verification in the flow of the data utilization. >> And where we give voice to a number of different constituencies. Because business opinions from different departments can run slightly counter to one another. There can be friction in how to use particular data assets in the business depending on the lens that you have in that business and so what were trying to do is surface those different perspectives, give them voice, allow those constituencies to work that out in a platform that captures that debate, captures that knowledge, makes that debate a knowledge of foundation to build upon so in many ways its kind of like the scientific method, right? As a scientist I publish a paper. >> Get peer reviewed. >> Get peer reviewed, let other people weigh in. >> And it becomes part of the canon of knowledge. >> And it becomes part of the canon. And in the scientific community over the last several years you see that folks are publishing their data sets out publicly, why can't an enterprise do the same thing internally for different business groups internally. Take the same approach. Allow others to weigh in. It gets them better insights and it gets them more trust in that foundation. >> You get collective intelligence from the user base to help come in and make the data smarter and sharper. >> Yeah and have reusable assets that you can then build upon to find the higher level insights. Don't run the same report that a hundred people in the organization have already run. >> So the final question for you. As you guys are emerging, starting to do really well, you have a unique approach, honestly we think it fits in kind of the new guard of analytics, a productivity worker with data, which is we think is going to be a huge persona, where are you guys winning, and why are you winning with your customer base? What are some things that are resonating as you go in and engage with prospects and customers and existing customers? What are they attracted to, what are they like, and why are you beating the competition in your sales and opportunities? >> I think this concept of a more agile, grassroots approach to data governance is a breath of fresh air for anyone who spend their career in the data space. Were at a turning point in industry where you're now seeing chief decision scientists, chief data officers, chief analytic officers take a leadership role in organizations. Munich Reinsurance is using their data team to actually invest and hold new arms of their business. That's how they're pushing the envelope on leadership in the insurance space and were seeing that across our install base. Alation becomes this knowledge repository for all of those mines in the organization, and encourages a community to be built around data and insightful questions of data. And in that way the whole organization raises to the next level and I think its that vision of what can be created internally, how we can move away from just claiming that were a big data organization and really starting to see the impact of how new business models can be creative in these data assets, that's exciting to our customer base. >> Well congratulations. A hot start up. Alation here on theCUBE in New York City for cubeNYC. Changing the game on analytics, bringing a breath of fresh air to hands of the users. A new persona developing. Congratulations, great to have you. Stephanie McReynolds. Its the cube. Stay with us for more live coverage, day one of two days live in New York City. We'll be right back.

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Google Cloud Next 2018. Brought to you by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone, welcome back. It's theCUBE here in San Francisco, live coverage of Google Cloud Next 2018. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, our next guest is Ben Evans, who is the director of strategic alliances at Cisco, and Connie Tang, director of product management at Cisco here to talk about the alliance with Google Cloud and the relevance of the partnership around the collab. Welcome to theCUBE, thanks for joining us. >> My pleasure to be here. >> So, we've been covering Cisco for a long time, most recently with theCUBE in Orlando, and DevNet creates huge surge of developer action going on across the Cisco ecosystem, not just network engineering stuff, the normal Cisco greatness, but up the stack with the collaboration side just cloud natives attracting and really giving a lot of energy to the developers and customers at Cisco. So, the partnership with Google is interesting. So, can you guys just share the big news, the Cisco news and how that relates to the Google Cloud. >> Yeah, absolutely, so firstly, Connie and myself have been working on this partnership for quite a while. And, as you'd said, there's multi, kind of, facets to this. There's the developer piece, so the SDKs are announcing around Android and the way that developers can now imbed calling and meeting and messaging inside their specific applications, their vertical applications. And, then there's also native integrations we're getting into around scheduling meetings from calenderings. I can go in and schedule a Webex meeting very easily. It was talked about on stage, 74 percent of, sort of, document collaboration involves some sort of co-collaboration, so it's a very kind of peanut butter and chocolate as you think about Cisco's portfolio of real time communications and meetings and how this is evolving into the team collaboration experience. Together with Google's portfolio in terms of AI and how that fits in to ultimate these work flows and make life easier for users. And, also just how this comes together in a very seamless way to enable this kind of real time collaboration and creation of documents. >> So, take us inside the partnership. How did it start? I mean, it seems like a match made in heaven. You guys aren't trying to create your own infrastructures of service. Google needs an enterprise presence, so obviously Cisco has a huge enterprise presence. But, how did it start and where did it start? >> We actually started engaging with Cisco over a year ago, and different groups start engaging because there's actually customer demand from our corporate enterprise customers wanting better integration of a collab portfolio into various aspects of G Suite. So, we worked with the calendering team because they're coming up with a brand new architecture, and so we're actually one of four front partners who work directly with them providing them feedback in what enterprises what, and then integrating our scheduling capabilities of Webex meetings directly into Google Calender. So that's one piece, and then we also work with the Chromebook group because more and more customers are starting to use and deploy Chromebook, and so they want to have an ability to start Webex meetings and be able to share content and actually join Webex meetings directly on Chromebook. So, there's another effort that went on separately. And then there's a third effort that goes on with the Chrome group where we're leveraging the WebRTC within Chrome, so that people can join Webex meeting directly without having to do download any client. So, they just open the web browser. They can have audio. They can have HD video. They can see the share. They can share content just on Chrome. >> When? >> This is what we've been waiting for with cloud. This is really, I want to expand on this notion of services. >> Yes. >> And service centric view because it has to be clean whether it's an EPI, a message que, or an event. The user experience's got to be integrated very cleanly. >> Yes. >> This is really kind of, the ah-ha moment of when people taste the Cloud, and that's the benefit. Can, because this is really interesting. You've got Webex, you've got G Suite. Two different applications. >> Very different, yes. >> This is the benefit of the services. Can you just explain the importance and why IT and why enterprises want this. >> Enterprises want ease of use. Ease of use, ease of access, and ease of deployment. So, Chrome solves that problem. There's no deployment required, right? It's already there, it's available on every desktop. And, the one simple click to join and schedule a meeting makes it easy to use, so with that combination, end use is adopted really, really quickly. So, we're seeing some of the fastest adoption of web clients based on those kind of ease of use and ease of joining. >> How has the product uptake been? Because if you have a seamless user experience, you're probably getting more customers coming in, integrating in... >> Yes. >> From G Suite and vice versa. They're getting lift. How is that partnership working? Can you share some color around that? >> Yes, as Connie said, we've really seen it's accelerating. One stat I'll share is during March, we were adding around 11 hundred new G Cal integrations every day, so we were seeing customers that were using Webex meeting, they were using G cal, and they wanted those things to work better together. So, integrating those calendars to make it easier to schedule and join meetings. So, yeah, that's 11 hundred a day. It's pretty good uptake considering we weren't really promoting it. It was just there and available to that existing customer base, so. >> What can you guys share to enterprise IT, application developers, or managers who have traditionally lived in a stone pipe world of like, let's build an app, and we'll distribute the app, and you log in, you do all the things, monolithic app. To a world that's services lead are service centric where you still do an app, but you got to think differently around some of the design criteria around integrating in with other apps. What's some of the best practices that you guys have found? Because you've seen the network all the way up to the application stack issues. You've got Kubernetes and all these new things. What are some of the best practices that companies should be developing around? >> So, what I've seen companies most concerned about is applications affecting other applications on the desktop, and hence, breaking some of their services. The web services kind of completely remove that. Because there's a web browser, they don't have to worry about it impacting any of their installed applications. And so, what we find out as IT looks into this mode of deployment, it's not really a deployment, it's an enablement. They actually really advertise it to their end users. They actually rather end users use the web client than to have to install, and they have to test and slow the roll out. >> What do you guys see as, I mean, I'm old enough to remember when Lotus Notes was the state of the art collaboration. (laughs) >> That's real old. Man, that's old. >> I was digging myself. So, now you're talking a lot about integration, simplifying the experience, obviously video has come into play. >> Yes. What do you guys see as the mega trends and maybe give us a little glimpse of the road map as to what we can expect going forward whether it's AI or other data? Where does that all fit in? >> Yeah, I think you nailed it. So, there's this kind of better together, easy join, it's just table stakes right now. The ability for me to easily join a meeting, but where that's really rapidly going is the AI space. So, how can I augment that meeting? Before I join, how do I know about you as individuals, what you care about, what's happening with your company? So, a company acquisition we did recently, you know, fits into that in terms of how do we start surfacing information about the people. If I'm in the meeting, if I want to be able to click on someone and get more context about them. What happened in my previous engagements, what have we previously talked about? How do we surface that up in a timely fashion? And, when again you think about Google Calender and the information it knows about you as an individual, Cisco with the kind of matrix of who you're calling and what meetings have taken place, there's kind of a tantalizing thing there about how you blend that together. So, you surface the information, you automate this kind of, the repetitive, more mundane tasks, and free the people up to focus more on innovation and collaboration relationships. >> And the analytics opportunity is pretty big. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> I mean Diane Green said in her keynote, security is the number one worry, AI is the number one opportunity. By freeing up the mundane tasks, automating that away, the value will shift to up the stack. We were using a metaphor with Jennifer Lynd from Google. You know, when the horse and buggy was, you know, killed by the car, those jobs went away. There was no need for stuff, you know, the horse, the hay, and all that stuff. IT, same thing. Things are shifting, operations are changing. >> Yeah. >> This is fundamental. >> Context is a great example of that. You know, if you look at what's happening in that market, you know, the predictions that they're call flows are going to decrease isn't really happening. What's happening is you're going to multi-channel, and people are doing the more basic stuff online, just fixing issues, but when it becomes complex, when it becomes relationship, it becomes high enough value, then you want the personal interaction, so I think the way personally I look at AI is it will free up computers. They're doing this kind of more repetitive finding patterns, but when it comes to talking to the doctor about, you know, your condition or you're trying to build relationships, there's things that people just naturally do very well. And, plowing through lots of data to find patterns, we don't do great, so. >> It's actually quite amazing when you look at the trends over the last decade or so in terms of collaboration. I mean, it used to be, I was joking about Lotus Notes, but it used to be you'd request people to show up 15 minutes early so you could sort out all the problems. And now today, if you're like a minute late, people are like texting you, "Where are you? Let's go." So, we become so much more productive, and the protocol has changed. So, when you think about how machine intelligence is going to affect productivity going forward, it's potentially massive. >> Yeah, we see massive opportunities. As you know, to really get the benefit from AI, you need some pretty big data sets, so again, just thinking about Webex for a second, six billion minutes a month in meetings. I'm not saying we're going to push all that straight into Google, but when you think about what's tied up in those six billion minutes. >> A lot of video. >> What's been discussed, how easily can I unlock that? How do I get insights from it? How do I train models? It's like, again, the combination of huge data sets. >> AI would be just amazing. You just go, "Hey, I missed that Webex. Give me the highlight reel." >> Yes. >> Exactly. >> That would be great. >> Not only that, but how do you customize that for the individuals? >> Or if I missed the first ten minutes, can I go scroll back? Can I actually review, get the transcription? And, if I need some additional information, can I just pull it up and it shows up, you know, for me within the meeting, right? So, there's just massive opportunities that we're looking at. >> And, the user expectations, the new experience, that's what people are really designing around, what they're expectations should be. >> Yes. >> And they're making that user... Okay, Connie and Ben, I want to get one last question in before we break. Two parts, for each of you. What's the most important story from your perspective here at the show this week that you're talking about and sharing, and what's next for you guys? Ben, we'll start with you. >> So, yeah, my two answers are firstly, the initial kind of integrations we're putting together. People should go check that out because, you know, there's some very compelling use cases that we're fixing there. But, the big item is Cisco and Google working together to really tackle this kind of future of work, and the combination of those two portfolios is going to unlock some really interesting opportunities, and that's what the teams are kind of getting together, working on, defining, and stay tuned to kind of see those phase two, phase three deliverables. >> Future words. Great, Connie, from a product perspective, what's the hottest things that you've been talking about here, most important, and then what's next. >> Yeah, for us, it's really the Google and Cisco coming together in a collaboration space, working together to make it much easier and simpler for customers to deploy and use the products. And, also to explore new opportunities in transcription and AI, leveraging Google Assist right to, and just make it even better in the future. >> Scale up the experience. >> Yes. >> Probably expect some great developer opportunities going on. >> Yes. >> Exploring and reinventing the enterprise. That was Diane Green's theme. She'll be here on theCUBE breaking it down. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Live coverage, here we have Cisco collaboration inside theCUBE, big relationship, expansion with Google. New product integrations, the value of the services within the cloud. The new model for development and user experience. theCUBE bringing you all the content here on the floor. Stay with us for more live coverage after the short break. (upbeat music)