>> Hello everyone. Welcome to theCUBE's coverage of International Women's Day. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE been profiling the leaders in the technology world, women in technology from developers to the boardroom, everything in between. We have two great guests promoting in from Malaysia. Nancy Wang is the general manager, also CUBE alumni from AWS Data Protection, and founder and board chair of Advancing Women in Tech, awit.org. And of course Kate Watts who's the executive director of Advancing Women in Tech.org. So it's awit.org. Nancy, Kate, thanks for coming all the way across remotely from Malaysia. >> Of course, we're coming to you as fast as our internet bandwidth will allow us. And you know, I'm just thrilled today that you get to see a whole nother aspect of my life, right? Because typically we talk about AWS, and here we're talking about a topic near and dear to my heart. >> Well, Nancy, I love the fact that you're spending a lot of time taking the empowerment to go out and help the industries and helping with the advancement of women in tech. Kate, the executive director it's a 501C3, it's nonprofit, dedicating to accelerating the careers of women in groups in tech. Can you talk about the organization? >> Yes, I can. So Advancing Women in Tech was founded in 2017 in order to fix some of the pathway problems that we're seeing on the rise to leadership in the industry. And so we specifically focus on supporting mid-level women in technical roles, get into higher positions. We do that in a few different ways through mentorship programs through building technical skills and by connecting people to a supportive community. So you have your peer network and then a vertical sort of relationships to help you navigate the next steps in your career. So to date we've served about 40,000 individuals globally and we're just looking to expand our reach and impact and be able to better support women in the industry. >> Nancy, talk about the creation, the origination story. How'd this all come together? Obviously the momentum, everyone in the industry's been focused on this for a long time. Where did AWIT come from? Advancing Women in Technology, that's the acronym. Advancing Women in Technology.org, where'd it come from? What's the origination story? >> Yeah, so AWIT really originated from this desire that I had, to Kate's point around, well if you look around right and you know, don't take my word for it, right? Look at stats, look at news reports, or just frankly go on your LinkedIn and see how many women in underrepresented groups are in senior technical leadership roles right out in the companies whose names we all know. And so that was my case back in 2016. And so when I first got the idea and back then I was actually at Google, just another large tech company in the valley, right? It was about how do we get more role models, how we get more, for example, women into leadership roles so they can bring up the next generation, right? And so this is actually part of a longer speech that I'm about to give on Wednesday and part of the US State Department speaker program. In fact, that's why Kate and I are here in Malaysia right now is working with over 200 women entrepreneurs from all over in Southeast Asia, including Malaysia Philippines, Vietnam, Borneo, you know, so many countries where having more women entrepreneurs can help raise the GDP right, and that fits within our overall mission of getting more women into top leadership roles in tech. >> You know, I was talking about Teresa Carlson she came on the program as well for this year this next season we're going to do. And she mentioned the decision between the US progress and international. And she's saying as much as it's still bad numbers, it's worse than outside the United States and needs to get better. Can you comment on the global aspect? You brought that up. I think it's super important to highlight that it's just not one area, it's a global evolution. >> Absolutely, so let me start, and I'd love to actually have Kate talk about our current programs and all of the international groups that we're working with. So as Teresa aptly mentioned there is so much work to be done not just outside the US and North Americas where typically tech nonprofits will focus, but rather if you think about the one to end model, right? For example when I was doing the product market fit workshop for the US State Department I had women dialing in from rice fields, right? So let me just pause there for a moment. They were holding their cell phones up near towers near trees just so that they can get a few minutes of time with me to do a workshop and how to accelerate their business. So if you don't call that the desire to propel oneself or accelerate oneself, not sure what is, right. And so it's really that passion that drove me to spend the next week and a half here working with local entrepreneurs working with policy makers so we can take advantage and really leverage that passion that people have, right? To accelerate more business globally. And so that's why, you know Kate will be leading our contingent with the United Nations Women Group, right? That is focused on women's economic empowerment because that's super important, right? One aspect can be sure, getting more directors, you know vice presidents into companies like Google and Amazon. But another is also how do you encourage more women around the world to start businesses, right? To reach economic and freedom independence, right? To overcome some of the maybe social barriers to becoming a leader in their own country. >> Yes, and if I think about our own programs and our model of being very intentional about supporting the learning development and skills of women and members of underrepresented groups we focused very much on providing global access to a number of our programs. For instance, our product management certification on Coursera or engineering management our upcoming women founders accelerator. We provide both access that you can get from anywhere. And then also very intentional programming that connects people into the networks to be able to further their networks and what they've learned through the skills online, so. >> Yeah, and something Kate just told me recently is these courses that Kate's mentioning, right? She was instrumental in working with the American Council on Education and so that our learners can actually get up to six college credits for taking these courses on product management engineering management, on cloud product management. And most recently we had our first organic one of our very first organic testimonials was from a woman's tech bootcamp in Nigeria, right? So if you think about the worldwide impact of these upskilling courses where frankly in the US we might take for granted right around the world as I mentioned, there are women dialing in from rice patties from other, you know, for example, outside the, you know corporate buildings in order to access this content. >> Can you think about the idea of, oh sorry, go ahead. >> Go ahead, no, go ahead Kate. >> I was going to say, if you can't see it, you can't become it. And so we are very intentional about ensuring that we have we're spotlighting the expertise of women and we are broadcasting that everywhere so that anybody coming up can gain the skills and the networks to be able to succeed in this industry. >> We'll make sure we get those links so we can promote them. Obviously we feel the same way getting the word out. I think a couple things I'd like to ask you guys cause I think you hit a great point. One is the economic advantage the numbers prove that diverse teams perform better number one, that's clear. So good point there. But I want to get your thoughts on the entrepreneurial equation. You mentioned founders and startups and there's also different makeups in different countries. It's not like the big corporations sometimes it's smaller business in certain areas the different cultures have different business sizes and business types. How do you guys see that factoring in outside the United States, say the big tech companies? Okay, yeah. The easy lower the access to get in education than stay with them, in other countries is it the same or is it more diverse in terms of business? >> So what really actually got us started with the US State Department was around our work with women founders. And I love for Kate to actually share her experience working with AWS startups in that capacity. But frankly, you know, we looked at the content and the mentor programs that were providing women who wanted to be executives, you know, quickly realize a lot of those same skills such as finding customers, right? Scaling your product and building channels can also apply to women founders, not just executives. And so early supporters of our efforts from firms such as Moderna up in Seattle, Emergence Ventures, Decibel Ventures in, you know, the Bay Area and a few others that we're working with right now. Right, they believed in the mission and really helped us scale out what is now our existing platform and offerings for women founders. >> Those are great firms by the way. And they also are very founder friendly and also understand the global workforce. I mean, that's a whole nother dimension. Okay, what's your reaction to all that? >> Yes, we have been very intentional about taking the product expertise and the learnings of women and in our network, we first worked with AWS startups to support the development of the curriculum for the recent accelerator for women founders that was held last spring. And so we're able to support 25 founders and also brought in the expertise of about 20 or 30 women from Advancing Women in Tech to be able to be the lead instructors and mentors for that. And so we have really realized that with this network and this individual sort of focus on product expertise building strong teams, we can take that information and bring it to folks everywhere. And so there is very much the intentionality of allowing founders allowing individuals to take the lessons and bring it to their individual circumstances and the cultures in which they are operating. But the product sense is a skill that we can support the development of and we're proud to do so. >> That's awesome. Nancy, I want to ask you some never really talk about data storage and AWS cloud greatness and goodness, here's different and you also work full-time at AWS and you're the founder or the chairman of this great organization. How do you balance both and do you get, they're getting behind you on this, Amazon is getting behind you on this. >> Well, as I say it's always easier to negotiate on the way in. But jokes aside, I have to say the leadership has been tremendously supportive. If you think about, for example, my leaders Wayne Duso who's also been on the show multiple times, Bill Vaas who's also been on the show multiple times, you know they're both founders and also operators entrepreneurs at heart. So they understand that it is important, right? For all of us, it's really incumbent on all of us who are in positions to do so, to create a pathway for more people to be in leadership roles for more people to be successful entrepreneurs. So, no, I mean if you just looked at LinkedIn they're always uploading my vote so they reach to more audiences. And frankly they're rooting for us back home in the US while we're in Malaysia this week. >> That's awesome. And I think that's a good culture to have that empowerment and I think that's very healthy. What's next for you guys? What's on the agenda? Take us through the activities. I know that you got a ton of things happening. You got your event out there, which is why you're out there. There's a bunch of other activities. I think you guys call it the Advancing Women in Tech week. >> Yes, this week we are having a week of programming that you can check out at Advancing Women in Tech.org. That is spotlighting the expertise of a number of women in our space. So it is three days of programming Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday if you are in the US so the seventh through the ninth, but available globally. We are also going to be in New York next week for the event at the UN and are looking to continue to support our mentorship programs and also our work supporting women founders throughout the year. >> All right. I have to ask you guys if you don't mind get a little market data so you can share with us here at theCUBE. What are you hearing this year that's different in the conversation space around the topics, the interests? Obviously I've seen massive amounts of global acceleration around conversations, more video, things like this more stories are scaling, a lot more LinkedIn activity. It just seems like it's a lot different this year. Can you guys share any kind of current trends you're seeing relative to the conversations and topics being discussed across the the community? >> Well, I think from a needle moving perspective, right? I think due to the efforts of wonderful organizations including the Q for spotlighting all of these awesome women, right? Trailblazing women and the nonprofits the government entities that we work with there's definitely more emphasis on creating access and creating pathways. So that's probably one thing that you're seeing is more women, more investors posting about their activities. Number two, from a global trend perspective, right? The rise of women in security. I noticed that on your agenda today, you had Lena Smart who's a good friend of mine chief information security officer at MongoDB, right? She and I are actually quite involved in helping founders especially early stage founders in the security space. And so globally from a pure technical perspective, right? There's right more increasing regulations around data privacy, data sovereignty, right? For example, India's in a few weeks about to get their first data protection regulation there locally. So all of that is giving rise to yet another wave of opportunity and we want women founders uniquely positioned to take advantage of that opportunity. >> I love it. Kate, reaction to that? I mean founders, more pathways it sounds like a neural network, it sounds like AI enabled. >> Yes, and speaking of AI, with the rise of that we are also hearing from many community members the importance of continuing to build their skills upskill learn to be able to keep up with the latest trends. There's a lot of people wondering what does this mean for my own career? And so they're turning to organizations like Advancing Women in Tech to find communities to both learn the latest information, but also build their networks so that they are able to move forward regardless of what the industry does. >> I love the work you guys are doing. It's so impressive. I think the economic angle is new it's more amplified this year. It's always kind of been there and continues to be. What do you guys hope for by next year this time what do you hope to see different from a needle moving perspective, to use your word Nancy, for next year? What's the visual output in your mind? >> I want to see real effort made towards 50-50 representation in all tech leadership roles. And I'd like to see that happen by 2050. >> Kate, anything on your end? >> I love that. I'm going to go a little bit more touchy-feely. I want everybody in our space to understand that the skills that they build and that the networks they have carry with them regardless of wherever they go. And so to be able to really lean in and learn and continue to develop the career that you want to have. So whether that be at a large organization or within your own business, that you've got the potential to move forward on that within you. >> Nancy, Kate, thank you so much for your contribution. I'll give you the final word. Put a plug in for the organization. What are you guys looking for? Any kind of PSA you want to share with the folks watching? >> Absolutely, so if you're in a position to be a mentor, join as a mentor, right? Help elevate and accelerate the next generation of women leaders. If you're an investor help us invest in more women started companies, right? Women founded startups and lastly, if you are women looking to accelerate your career, come join our community. We have resources, we have mentors and who we have investors who are willing to come in on the ground floor and help you accelerate your business. >> Great work. Thank you so much for participating in our International Women's Day 23 program and we'd look to keep this going quarterly. We'll see you next year, next time. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. >> Thanks so much John. >> Thank you. >> Okay, women leaders here. >> Nancy: Thanks for having us >> All over the world, coming together for a great celebration but really highlighting the accomplishments, the pathways the investment, the mentoring, everything in between. It's theCUBE. Bring as much as we can. I'm John Furrier, your host. Thanks for watching.

>>Okay, we're back. My name is Dave Valante and this is the Cube's coverage of AWS storage day. You know, coming off of reinforc I wrote the, the cloud was a new layer of defense. In fact, the first line of defense in a cyber security strategy. And that brings new thinking and models for protecting data, data protection, specifically, traditionally thought of as backup and recovery, it's become a critical adjacency to security and a component of a comprehensive cybersecurity strategy. We're here in our studios outside of Boston with two cube alums, and we're gonna discuss this in other topics. Wayne do so is the vice president for AWS storage edge and data services, and Nancy Wong as general manager of AWS backup and data protection services, guys. Welcome. Great to see you again. Thanks for coming on. Of >>Course, always a pleasure, Dave. Good to >>See you, Dave. All right. So Wayne, let's talk about how organizations should be thinking about this term data protection. It's an expanding definition, isn't >>It? It is an expanding definition. They, last year we talked about data and the importance of data to companies. Every company is becoming a data company, you know, da the amount of data they generate, the amount of data they can use to create models, to do predictive analytics. And frankly, to find ways of innovating is, is grown rapidly. And, you know, there's this tension between access to all that data, right? Getting the value out of that data. And how do you secure that data? And so this is something we think about with customers all the time. So data durability, data protection, data resiliency, and, you know, trust in their data. If you think about running your organization on your data, trust in your data is so important. So, you know, you gotta trust where you're putting your data. You know, people who are putting their data on a platform need to trust that platform will in fact, ensure it's durability, security, resiliency. >>And, you know, we see ourselves AWS as a partner in securing their data, making their data dur durable, making their data resilient, right? So some of that responsibility is on us. Some of that is on so shared responsibility around data protection, data resiliency. And, you know, we think about forever, you know, the notion of, you know, compromise of your infrastructure, but more and more people think about the compromise of their data as data becomes more valuable. And in fact, data is a company's most valuable asset. We've talked about this before. Only second to their people. You know, the people that are most valuable asset, but right next to that is their data. So really important stuff. >>So Nancy, you talked to a lot of customers, but by the way, it always comes back to the data. We've saying this for years, haven't we? So you've got this expanding definition of data protection, you know, governance is in there. You, you think about access cetera. When you talk to customers, what are you hearing from them? How are they thinking about data protection? >>Yeah. So a lot of the customers that Wayne and I have spoken to often come to us seeking thought leadership about, you know, how do I solve this data challenge? How do I solve this data sprawl challenge, but also more importantly, tying it back to data protection and data resiliency is how do I make sure that data is secure, that it's protected against, let's say ransomware events, right. And continuously protected. So there's a lot of mental frameworks that come to mind and a very popular one that comes up in quite a few conversations is this cybersecurity framework, right? And from a data protection perspective is just as important to protect and recover your data as it is to be able to detect different events or be able to respond to those events. Right? So recently I was just having a conversation with a regulatory body of financial institutions in Europe, where we're designing a architecture that could help them make their data immutable, but also continuously protected. So taking a step back, that's really where I see AWS's role in that we provide a wide breadth of primitives to help customers build secure platforms and scaffolding so that they can focus on building the data protection, the data governance controls, and guardrails on top of that platform. >>And, and that's always been AWS's philosophy, you know, make sure that developers have access to those primitives and APIs so that they can move fast and, and essentially build their own if that that's in fact what they wanna do. And as you're saying, when data protection is now this adjacency to cyber security, but there's disaster recoveries in there, business continuance, cyber resilience, et cetera. So, so maybe you could pick up on that and sort of extend how you see AWS, helping customers build out those resilient services. >>Yeah. So, you know, two core pillars to a data protection strategy is around their data durability, which is really an infrastructure element. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's by and large the responsibility of the provider of that infrastructure to make sure that data's durable, cuz if it's not durable, everything else doesn't matter. And then the second pillar is really about data resiliency. So in terms of security, controls and governance, like these are really important, but these are shared responsibility. Like the customers working with us with the services that we provide are there to architect the design, it's really human factors and design factors that get them resiliency, >>Nancy, anything you would add to what Wayne just said. >>Yeah, absolutely. So customers tell us that they want always on data resiliency and data durability, right? So oftentimes in those conversations, three common themes come up, which is they want a centralized solution. They want to be able to transcribe their intent into what they end up doing with their data. And number three, they want something that's policy driven because once you centralize your policies, it's much better and easier to establish control and governance at an organizational level. So keeping that in mind with policy as our interface, there's two managed AWS solutions that I recommend you all check out in terms of data resiliency and data durability. Those are AWS backup, which is our centralized solution for managing protection recovery, and also provides an audit audit capability of how you protect your data across 15 different AWS services, as well as on-premises VMware and for customers whose mission critical data is contained entirely on disk. We also offer AWS elastic disaster recovery services, especially for customers who want to fail over their workloads from on premises to the cloud. >>So you can essentially centralize as a quick follow up, centralize the policy. And like I said, the intent, but you can support a federated data model cuz you're building out this massive, you know, global system, but you can take that policy and essentially bring it anywhere on the AWS cloud. Is that >>Right? Exactly. And actually one powerful integration I want to touch upon is that AWS backup is natively integrated with AWS organizations, which is our defacto multi account federated organization model for how AWS services work with customers, both in the cloud, on the edge, at the edge and on premises. >>So that's really important because as, as we talk about all the time on the cube, this notion of a, a decentralized data architecture data mesh, but the problem is how do you ensure governance and a federated model? So we're clearly moving in that direction. Wayne, I want to ask you about cyber as a board level discussion years ago, I interviewed Dr. Robert Gates, you know, former defense secretary and he sat on a number of boards and I asked him, you know, how important and prominent is security at the board level? Is it really a board level discussion? He said, absolutely. Every time we meet, we talk about cyber security, but not every company at the time, this was kind of early last decade was doing that. That's changed now. Ransomware is front and center. Hear about it all the time. What's AWS. What's your thinking on cyber as a board level discussion and specifically what are you guys doing around ran ransomware? >>Yeah. So, you know, malware in general, ransomware being a particular type of malware. Sure. It's a hot topic and it continues to be a hot topic. And whether at the board level, the C-suite level, I had a chance to listen to Dr. Gates a couple months ago and super motivational, but we think about ransomware and the same way that our customers do. Right? Cause all of us are subject to an incident. Nobody is immune to a ransomware incident. So we think very much the same way. And you, as Nancy said, along the lines of the, this framework, we really think about, you know, how do customers identify their critical access? How do they plan for protecting those assets, right? How do they make sure that they are in fact protected? And if they do detect the ransomware event and ransomware events come from a lot of different places, like there's not one signature, there's not one thumbprint, if you would for ransomware. >>So it's, it's, there's really a lot of vigilance that needs to be put in place, but a lot of planning that needs to be put in place. And once that's detected and a, a, we have to recover, you know, we know that we have to take an action and recover having that plan in place, making sure that your assets are fully protected and can be restored. As you know, ransomware is a insidious type of malware. You know, it sits in your system for a long time. It figures out what's going on, including your backup policies, your protection policies, and figures out how to get around those with some of the things that Nancy talked about in terms of air gaping, your capabilities, being able to, if you would scan your secondary, your backup storage for malware, knowing that it's a good copy. And then being able to restore from that known good copy in the event of an incident is critical. So we think about this for ourselves and the same way that we think about these for our customers. You gotta have a great plan. You gotta have great protection and you gotta be ready to restore in the case of an incident. And we wanna make sure we provide all the capabilities to do >>That. Yeah. So I'll glad you mentioned air gaping. So at the recent re reinforce, I think it was Kurt kufeld was speaking about ransomware and he didn't specifically mention air gaping. I had to leave. So I might have, I might have missed it cause I was doing the cube, but that's a, that's a key aspect. I'm sure there were, were things on the, on the deep dives that addressed air gaping, but Nancy look, AWS has the skills. It has the resources, you know, necessary to apply all these best practices and, you know, share those with customers. But, but what specific investments is AWS making to make the CISO's life easier? Maybe you could talk about that. >>Sure. So following on to your point about the reinforced keynote, Dave, right? CJ Boes talked about how the events of a ransomware, for example, incident or event can take place right on stage where you go from detect to respond and to recover. And specifically on the recovery piece, you mentioned AWS backup, the managed service that protects across 15 different AWS services, as well as on-premises VMware as automated recovery. And that's in part why we've decided to continue that investment and deliver AWS backup audit manager, which helps customers actually prove their posture against how their protection policies are actually mapping back to their organizational controls based on, for example, how they TA tag their data for mission criticality or how sensitive that data is. Right. And so turning to best practices, especially for ransomware events. Since this is very top of mind for a lot of customers these days is I will, will always try to encourage customers to go through game day simulations, for example, identifying which are those most critical applications in their environment that they need up and running for their business to function properly, for example, and actually going through the recovery plan and making sure that their staff is well trained or that they're able to go through, for example, a security orchestration automation, recovery solution, to make sure that all of their mission critical applications are back up and running in case of a ransomware event. >>Yeah. So I love the game day thing. I mean, we know, well just the, in the history of it, you couldn't even test things like disaster recovery, right? Because it was too dangerous with the cloud. You can test these things safely and actually plan out, develop a blueprint, test your blueprint. I love the, the, the game day >>Analogy. Yeah. And actually one thing I'd love to add is, you know, we talked about air gaping. I just wanna kind of tie up that statement is, you know, one thing that's really interesting about the way that the AWS cloud is architected is the identity access and management platform actually allows us to create identity constructs, that air gap, your data perimeter. So that way, when attackers, for example, are able to gain a foothold in your environment, you're still able to air gap your most mission critical and also crown jewels from being infiltrated. >>Mm that's key. Yeah. We've learned, you know, when paying the ransom is not a good strategy, right? Cuz most of the time, many times you don't even get your data back. Okay. So we, we're kind of data geeks here. We love data and we're passionate about it on the cube AWS and you guys specifically are passionate about it. So what excites you, Wayne, you start and then Nancy, you bring us home. What excites you about data and data protection and why? >>You know, we are data nerds. So at the end of the day, you know, there's this expressions we use all the time, but data is such a rich asset for all of us. And some of the greatest innovations that come out of AWS comes out of our analysis of our own data. Like we collect a lot of data on our operations and some of our most critical features for our customers come out of our analysis, that data. So we are data nerds and we understand how businesses view their data cuz we view our data the same way. So, you know, Dave security really started in the data center. It started with the enterprises. And if we think about security, often we talk about securing compute and securing network. And you know, if you, if you secured your compute, you secured your data generally, but we've separated data from compute so that people can get the value from their data no matter how they want to use it. And in doing that, we have to make sure that their data is durable and it's resilient to any sort of incident and event. So this is really, really important to us. And what do I get excited about? You know, again, thinking back to this framework, I know that we as thought leaders alongside our customers who also thought leaders in their space can provide them with the capabilities. They need to protect their data, to secure their data, to make sure it's compliant and always, always, always durable. >>You know, it's funny, you'd say funny it's it's serious actually. Steven Schmidt at reinforc he's the, the, the chief security officer at Amazon used to be the C C ISO of AWS. He said that Amazon sees quadrillions of data points a month. That's 15 zeros. Okay. So that's a lot of data. Nancy bring us home. What's what excites you about data and data protection? >>Yeah, so specifically, and this is actually drawing from conversations that I had with multiple ISV partners at AWS reinforc is the ability to derive value from secondary data, right? Because traditionally organizations have really seen that as a call center, right? You're producing secondary data because most likely you're creating backups of your mission critical workloads. But what if you're able to run analytics and insights and derive insights from that, that secondary data, right? Then you're actually able to let AWS do the undifferentiated heavy lifting of analyzing that secondary data state. So that way us customers or ISV partners can build value on the security layers above. And that is how we see turning cost into value. >>I love it. As you're taking the original premise of the cloud, taking away the under heavy lifting for, you know, D deploying, compute, storage, and networking now bringing up to the data level, the analytics level. So it continues. The cloud continues to expand. Thank you for watching the cubes coverage of AWS storage day 2022.

[Music] okay we're back my name is dave vellante and this is thecube's coverage of aws storage day you know coming off of reinforce i wrote that the cloud was a new layer of defense in fact the first line of defense in a cyber security strategy that brings new thinking and models for protecting data data protection specifically traditionally thought of as backup and recovery it's become a critical adjacency to security and a component of a comprehensive cyber security strategy we're here in our studios outside of boston with two cube alums and we're going to discuss this and other topics wayne dusso is the vice president for aws storage edge and data services and nancy wong as general manager of aws backup and data protection services guys welcome great to see you again thanks for coming on of course always a pleasure dave good to see you dave all right so wayne let's talk about how organizations should be thinking about this term data protection it's an expanding definition isn't it it is an expanded definition dave last year we talked about uh data and the importance of data to companies every company um is becoming a data company uh you know the amount of data they generate uh the amount of data they can use to uh create models to do predictive analytics and frankly uh to find ways of innovating uh is is growing uh rapidly and you know there's this tension between access to all that data right getting the value out of that data and how do you secure that data and so this is something we think about with customers all the time so data durability data protection data resiliency and you know trust in their data if you think about running your organization on your data trust in your data is so important so you know you got to trust where you're putting your data you know people who are putting their data on a platform need to trust that platform will in fact ensure its durability security resiliency and you know we see ourselves uh aws as a partner uh in securing their data making their data they're built durable making their data resilient all right so some of that responsibility is on us some of that is on amazon responsibility around data protection data resiliency and you know um we think about forever you know the notion of um you know compromise of your infrastructure but more and more people think about the compromise of their data as data becomes more valuable in fact data is a company's most valuable asset we've talked about this before only second to their people you know the people who are the most valuable asset but right next to that is their data so really important stuff so nancy you talk to a lot of customers but by the way it always comes back to the data we've been saying this for years haven't we so you've got this expanding definition of data protection you know governance is in there you think about access etc when you talk to customers what are you hearing from them how are they thinking about data protection yeah so a lot of the customers that wayne and i have spoken to often come to us seeking thought leadership about you know how do i solve this data challenge how do i solve this data sprawl challenge but also more importantly tying it back to data protection and data resiliency is how do i make sure that data is secure that it's protected against let's say ransomware events right and continuously protected so there's a lot of mental frameworks that come to mind and a very popular one that comes up in quite a few conversations is in this cyber security framework right and from a data protection perspective it's just as important to protect and recover your data as it is to be able to detect different events or be able to respond to those events right so recently i was just having a conversation with a regulatory body of financial institutions in europe where we're designing a architecture that could help them make their data immutable but also continuously protected so taking a step back that's really where i see aws's role in that we provide a wide breadth of primitives to help customers build secure platforms and scaffolding so that they can focus on building the data protection the data governance controls and guardrails on top of that platform and that's always been aws philosophy make sure that developers have access to those primitives and apis so that they can move fast and essentially build their own if that that's in fact what they want to do and as you're saying when data protection is now this adjacency to cyber security but there's disaster recoveries in there business continuance cyber resilience etc so so maybe you could pick up on that and sort of extend how you see aws helping customers build out those resilient services yeah so you know two uh core pillars to a data protection strategy is around their data durability which is really an infrastructural element you know it's it's it's by and large the responsibility of the provided that infrastructure to make sure that data is durable because if it's not durable and everything else doesn't matter um and the second pillar is really about data resiliency so in terms of security controls and governance like these are really important but these are a shared responsibility like the customers working with us with the services that we provide are there to architect the design it's really human factors and design factors that get them resiliency nancy anything you would add to what wayne just said yeah absolutely so customers tell us that they want always on data resiliency and data durability right so oftentimes in those conversations three common themes come up which is they want a centralized solution they want to be able to transcribe their intent into what they end up doing with their data and number three they want something that's policy driven because once you centralize your policies it's much better and easier to establish control and governance at an organizational level so keeping that in mind with policy as our interface there's two managed aws solutions that i recommend you all check out in terms of data resiliency and data durability those are aws backup which is our centralized solution for managing protection recovery and also provides an audit audit capability of how you protect your data across 15 different aws services as well as on-premises vmware and for customers whose mission-critical data is contained entirely on disk we also offer aws elastic disaster recovery services especially for customers who want to fail over their workloads from on-premises to the cloud so you can essentially centralize as a quick follow-up centralize the policy and as you said the intent but you can support a federated data model because you're building out this massive you know global system but you can take that policy and essentially bring it anywhere on the aws cloud is that right exactly and actually one powerful integration i want to touch upon is that aws backup is natively integrated with aws organizations which is our de facto multi-account federated organization model for how aws services work with customers both in the cloud on the edge at the edge and on premises so that's really important because as we talk about all the time on the cube this notion of a decentralized data architecture data mesh but the problem is how do you ensure governance in a federated model so we're clearly moving in that direction when i want to ask you about cyber as a board level discussion years ago i interviewed dr robert gates you know former defense secretary and he sat on a number of boards and i asked him you know how important and prominent is security at the board level is it really a board level discussion he said absolutely every time we meet we talk about cyber security but not every company at the time this was kind of early last decade was doing that that's changed um now ransomware is front and center hear about it all the time what's aws what's your thinking on cyber as a board level discussion and specifically what are you guys doing around ransomware yeah so you know malware in general ransomware being a particular type of malware um it's a hot topic and it continues to be a hot topic and whether at the board level the c-suite level um i had a chance to listen to uh dr gates a couple months ago and uh it was super motivational um but we think about ransomware in the same way that our customers do right because all of us are subject to an incident nobody is uh uh immune to a ransomware incident so we think very much the same way and as nancy said along the lines of the nist framework we really think about you know how do customers identify their critical access how do they plan for protecting those assets right how do they make sure that they are in fact protected and if they do detect a ransomware event and ransomware events come from a lot of different places like there's not one signature there's not one thumb print if you would for ransomware so it's it's there's really a lot of vigilance uh that needs to be put in place but a lot of planning that needs to be put in place and once that's detected and a we have to recover you know we know that we have to take an action and recover having that plan in place making sure that your assets are fully protected and can be restored as you know ransomware is a insidious uh type of malware you know it sits in your system for a long time it figures out what's going on including your backup policies your protection policies and figures out how to get around those with some of the things that nancy talked about in terms of air gapping your capabilities being able to if you would scan your secondary your backup storage for malware knowing that it's a good copy and then being able to restore from that known good copy in the event of an incident is critical so we think about this for ourselves in the same way that we think about these for our customers you've got to have a great plan you've got to have great protection and you've got to be ready to restore in the case of an incident and we want to make sure we provide all the capabilities to do that yeah so i'm glad you mentioned air gapping so at the recent reinforce i think it was kurt kufeld was speaking about ransomware and he didn't specifically mention air gapping i had to leave so i might i might have missed it because i'm doing the cube but that's a that's a key aspect i'm sure there were things in the on the deep dives that addressed air gapping but nancy look aws has the skills it has the resources you know necessary to apply all these best practices and you know share those as customers but but what specific investments is aws making to make the cso's life easier maybe you could talk about that sure so following on to your point about the reinforced keynote dave right cj moses talked about how the events of a ransomware for example incident or event can take place right on stage where you go from detect to respond and to recover and specifically on the recover piece he mentioned aws backup the managed service that protects across 15 different aws services as well as on-premises vmware as automated recovery and that's in part why we've decided to continue that investment and deliver aws backup audit manager which helps customers actually prove their posture against how their protection policies are actually mapping back to their organizational controls based on for example how they tag their data for mission criticality or how sensitive that data is right and so turning to best practices especially for ransomware events since this is very top of mind for a lot of customers these days is i will always try to encourage customers to go through game day simulations for example identifying which are those most critical applications in their environment that they need up and running for their business to function properly for example and actually going through the recovery plan and making sure that their staff is well trained or that they're able to go through for example a security orchestration automation recovery solution to make sure that all of their mission critical applications are back up and running in case of a ransomware event yeah so i love the game date thing i mean we know well just in the history of it you couldn't even test things like disaster recovery be right because it was too dangerous with the cloud you can test these things safely and actually plan out develop a blueprint test your blueprint i love the the game day analogy yeah and actually one thing i love to add is you know we talked about air gapping i just want to kind of tie up that statement is you know one thing that's really interesting about the way that the aws cloud is architected is the identity access and management platform actually allows us to create identity constructs that air gap your data perimeter so that way when attackers for example are able to gain a foothold in your environment you're still able to air gap your most mission critical and also crown jewels from being infiltrated that's key yeah we've learned you know when paying the ransom is not a good strategy right because most of the time many times you don't even get your data back okay so we we're kind of data geeks here we love data um and we're passionate about it on the cube aws and you guys specifically are passionate about it so what excites you wayne you start and then nancy you bring us home what excites you about data and data protection and why you know we are data nerds uh so at the end of the day um you know there's there's expressions we use all the time but data is such a rich asset for all of us some of the greatest innovations that come out of aws comes out of our analysis of our own data like we collect a lot of data on our operations and some of our most critical features for our customers come out of our analysis that data so we are data nerds and we understand how businesses uh view their data because we view our data the same way so you know dave security really started in the data center it started with the enterprises and if we think about security often we talk about securing compute and securing network and you know if you if you secured your compute you secured your data generally but we've separated data from compute so that people can get the value from their data no matter how they want to use it and in doing that we have to make sure that their data is durable and it's resilient to any sort of incident event so this is really really important to us and what do i get excited about um you know again thinking back to this framework i know that we as thought leaders alongside our customers who also thought leaders in their space can provide them with the capabilities they need to protect their data to secure their data to make sure it's compliant and always always always durable you know it's funny you'd say it's not funny it's serious actually steven schmidt uh at reinforce he's the the chief security officer at amazon used to be the c c iso of aws he said that amazon sees quadrillions of data points a month that's 15 zeros okay so that's a lot of data nancy bring us home what's what excites you about data and data protection yeah so specifically and this is actually drawing from conversations that i had with multiple isv partners at aws reinforce is the ability to derive value from secondary data right because traditionally organizations have really seen that as a cost center right you're producing secondary data because most likely you're creating backups of your mission critical workloads but what if you're able to run analytics and insights and derive insights from that secondary data right then you're actually able to let aws do the undifferentiated heavy lifting of analyzing that secondary data as state so that way you as customers or isv partners can build value on the security layers above and that is how we see turning cost into value i love it you're taking the original premise of the cloud taking away the undifferentiated heavy lifting for you know deploying compute storage and networking now bringing up to the data level the analytics level so it continues the cloud continues to expand thank you for watching thecube's coverage of aws storage day 2022

(upbeat music) >> Hey, everyone. Welcome to theCUBE's coverage of the International Women's Showcase for 2022. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. I'm pleased to welcome Nancy Wong, the general manager of Data Protection and Governance at AWS to the program. Nancy, it's great to have you. >> Thanks so much for having me Lisa, and you know, I really hope that this is hopefully the last year that we'll be celebrating International Women's Day all virtually. >> I agree. I agree. Well, we're going in that right direction globally. So let's cross our fingers. Talk to me a little bit about your role at AWS and what you do there. >> Sure. So as a GM of AWS Data Protection and Governance, a lot of, we tackle quite a few problems that our biggest customers face, right? When they think about, "How do I manage my data?" Right. Especially in this digital world. And speaking of the pandemic, how much data has been generated by consumers, by devices, by systems, by servers? How do you protect all of that data? Right. Especially we hear about cyber crime, cyber attacks. Right. Data breaches. It's really important to make sure that all of our customers have a coherent strategy around not just management, right, but also protection and really how you govern your data. Right. And there's just so many awesome conversations that my team and I have had lately with CSOs or chief technology officers on this topic, as it evolves. >> Data protection is so critical. It's one of my favorite topics to talk about, cybersecurity as well. Talk to me about what it means though if we keep this at a bit of a different level to be an operator within the the big ecosystem that is AWS. >> Yeah. And that's actually one of the the favorite aspects of my role. Right. Which is, you know, I get to innovate every day on behalf of my customers. For example, I love having one-on-one dialogues. I love having architecture conversations where we brainstorm. Right. And so those type of conversations help inform how we deliver and develop products. And so in an operator role, right, for the the women in the audience today, is it really gives you that perspective into not just how, what type of products do you want to build that delight your customers but also from an engineering. Right. And a bottom line perspective of, well how do you make this happen? Right. How do you fund this? And how do you plan out your development milestones? >> What are, tell me a little bit about your background and then what makes women in technology such an important initiative for you to stand behind? >> Absolutely. So I'm so proud today to see that the number of women or the percentage of women enrolled at engineering curriculums just continue to rise. Right. And especially as someone who went through an engineering degree in her undergraduate studies, that was not always the case. Right. So oftentimes, you know, I would look around the classroom and be the only woman on the lab bench or only woman in a CS classroom. And so when you have roles in tech, specifically, that require an undergraduate degree in computer science or a degree in engineering, that helps to, or that only serves to really reduce the population of eligible candidates. Right. Who then, if you look at that pool of eligible candidates who then you can invest and accelerate through the career ladder to become leaders in tech, well that's where you may end up with a representation issue. Right. And that's why we have, for example, so few women leaders in tech that we can look up to as role models. And that's really the problem or the gap that I'm very passionate about solving. And also, Lisa, I'm really excited to tell you a little bit more about advancing women in tech, which is a 501c3 nonprofit organization that I started to tackle this exact problem. >> Talk to me about that, cause it's one of the things that you bring up is, you know, we always say when we're having conversations like this, we can't be what we can't see. We need to be able to see those female leaders. To your point, there aren't a ton in comparison to the male leaders. So talk to me about advancing women in technology, why you founded this, and what you guys are accomplishing. >> Absolutely. So it's been such a personal journey as well. Just starting this organization called Advancing Women In Tech because I started it in 2017. Right. So when I really was, you know, just starting out as a product manager, I was at another big tech company at the time. And what I really realized, right, is looking around you know, I had so many, for example, bosses, managers, peer leaders, who were really invested in growing me as a product manager and growing my tech and career. And this is right after I'd made the transition from the federal government into big tech. What that said though, looking around, there weren't that many women tech leaders that I could look up to, or get coffee, or just have a mentoring conversation. And quickly I realized, well, it's not so much that women can't do it. Right. It's the fact that we're not advancing enough women into leadership roles. And so really we have to look at why that is. Right. And we, you know, from a personal perspective, one contribution towards that angle is upskilling. Right. So if you think about what skills one needs as one climbs a career ladder, whether that's your first people management role, or your first manager manager's role, or obviously for bigger leaders when they start managing thousands, tens of thousands of individuals, well all of that requires different skills. And so learning those skills about how to manage people, how to motivate your teams effectively, super, super important. And of course on the other side, and one that I'm, you know, near to dear to me is that of mentorship and executive sponsorship because you can have all the skills in the world, right. And especially with digital learning and AWIT is very involved with Coursera and AWS in producing and making those resources readily available and accessible. Well, if you don't have those opportunities, if you don't have mentors and sponsors who are well to push you or give you a step ladder to those roles, well you're still not going to get there. Right. And so, that's why actually, if you look at the AWIT mission, it's really those two pillars working very closely together to help advance women into leadership roles. >> The idea of mentorship and sponsorship is so critical. And I think a lot of people don't understand the difference between a mentor and a sponsor. How do you define that difference and how do you bring them into the organization so that they can be mentors and sponsors? >> Yeah, absolutely. And there's, you know, these two terms are often used today so interchangeably that I do get a lot of questions around, well, what is the difference? Right. And how does, let's say a mentor become a sponsor? So, maybe just taking a few steps back, right. When you have let's say questions around compensation or, "Hey I have some job offers, which ones do I consider?" And you ask someone a question or advice, well that person's likely your mentor. Right? And typically a mentor is someone who you can ask those questions on a repeated basis. Who's very accessible to you. Well, a sponsor takes that a few steps forward in the sense that they are sponsoring you into a role or into a project or initiative that you on your own may not be able to achieve. And by doing so, I think what really differentiates a sponsor from a mentor is that the sponsor will actually put their own reputation on the line. Right. They're using their own political capital in order to make sure that you get into that role, you get into that room. Right. And that's why it's so key, for example, especially if you have that relationship already with a person who's your mentor, you're able to ask questions or advice from, to convert them into a sponsor so that you can accelerate your career. >> Great definition, description, and great recommendations for converting mentors to sponsors. You know, I only learned the difference about a mentor and a sponsor a few years ago at another women in tech event that I was hosting. And I thought, "It's brilliant. It makes perfect sense." We need more people to understand the difference, the synergies, and how to promote mentors to sponsors. Talk to me now about advancing women in tech plus the power of AWS. How are they helping this nonprofit to really accelerate? >> Sure. So from an organization perspective, right, there's many women, for example, across the the tech companies who are part of Advancing Women In Tech, obviously Amazon of course as an employee has a very large community within who's part of AWIT. But we also have members across the tech industry from startups to VC firms to of course, Google, Microsoft, and Netflix. You name it. With that said, you know, what AWS has done with AWIT is actually very special in the sense that if you go to the Coursera platform, coursera.org/awit you can see our two Coursera specializations. Four courses each that go through the real world product management fundamentals. Or the business side, the technical skills, and even interviewing for mid-career product management roles. And the second specialization, which I'm super excited to share today, is actually geared towards getting folks ramped up and prepared to successfully pass the Cloud Practitioner's Exam, which is one of the industry recognized standards about understanding the AWS Cloud and being functional in the AWS Cloud. This summer, of course, and I'm sharing kind of a sneak peek announcement that I'll be making tomorrow with the University of Pennsylvania, is that we're kicking off a program for the masters of CIS program, or the Computer Information Systems Master students, to actually go through this Coursera specialization, which is produced by AWIT, sponsored by AWS, and AWS Training and Certifications has so generously donated exam vouchers for these students so that they can then go on and be certified in the AWS Cloud. So that's one just really cool collaboration that we are doing between AWS and AWIT to get more qualified folks in the door in tech jobs, and hopefully at jobs in AWS. >> That's a great collaboration. What are some of the goals in terms of metrics, the number of women that you want to get into the program and complete the program? What are some of those on your radar? >> Absolutely. So one of the reasons, of course, that the Master's of CIS Program, the University of Pennsylvania caught my eye, not withstanding, I graduated from there, but also that just the statistics of women enrolled. Right. So what's really notable about this program is it's entirely online, which as a university creating a Master's degree fully online, well, it takes a ton of resources from the university, from the faculty. And what's really special about these students is that they're already full-time adult professionals, which means that they're working a full-time job, they might be taking care of family obligations, and they're still finding time to advance themselves, to acquire a Master's degree in CS. And best of all, 42% of these students are women. Right. And so that's a number that is multiples of what we're finding in engineering curriculums today. And so my theory is, well if you go to a student population that is over 40%, 42 to be exact percent women, and enable these women to be certified in AWS Cloud, to have direct interview prep and mentorship from AWS software development leaders, well, that greatly increases their chances of getting a full-time role, right, at AWS. Right. At which then we can help them advance their careers to further and further roles in software development. >> So is this curriculum also open to women who aren't currently in tech to be able to open the door for them to get into tech and STEM fields? >> Absolutely. And so in my bad and remiss in mentioning, which is students of this Master's in CS Program are actually students not from tech already. So they're not in a tech field. And they did not have a degree in CS or even engineering as part of their undergraduate studies. So it's truly folks who are outside of tech, that are 42% women, that we're getting into the tech industry with this collaboration between AWS, AWIT, and the University of Pennsylvania. >> That's outstanding to get them in from completely different fields into tech. >> Absolutely. >> How do you help women have the confidence to say, "I want to try this." Cause if we think about every company today is a tech company. It's a data company. It has to be to be competitive. You know, the pandemic taught us that everything we're able to do online and digitally, for example, but how do you help women get the confidence to say, "Okay, I'm going to go from a completely different field into tech." >> Absolutely. So if we, you know, define tech of course as big tech or, you know, now the main companies, right, I myself made that transition, which is why it is a topic near and dear to me because I can personally speak to my journey because I didn't start my career out in tech. Right. Yes. I studied engineering. But with that said, my first full-time job out of college was with the federal government because I wanted to go and build healthdata.gov, right, which gave folks a lot of access to the healthcare data, roles, right, that existed within the U.S. government and the CMS, NIH, you know, CDC, so on and so forth. But that was quite a big change from then taking a product management job at Google. Right. And so how did I make that change? Well, a lot of it came from, you know, the mentors that I had. Right. What I call my personal board of directors who gave me that confidence. And sure, I mean even today, I still have imposter syndrome where, you know, I think, "Am I good enough." Right. "Should I be leading this organization," right, "of data protection and governance." But I think what it boils down to is, you know, inner confidence. Right. And goes back to those two pillars of having the right skills and also the right mentors and sponsors who are willing to help sponsor you into those opportunities and help sponsor you to success. >> Absolutely. Great advice and recommendations. Thanks for sharing your background, Nancy, it's outstanding to see where you started to where you are now and also to what you're enabling for so many other females to get into tech with the AWIT program combined with AWS and UPenn. Exciting stuff. Can't wait to talk to you next year to see where you guys go from here. >> Absolutely Lisa. And what I'm really looking forward to sharing with you next year is the personal testimonials of other women who have gone through the AWIT, the AWS, the UPenn Program and have gotten their tech jobs and also promotions. >> That sounds like a great thing to look forward to. I'm looking forward to that. Nancy, thanks so much for your time and the insight that you shared. >> Thanks so much for having me, Lisa. >> My pleasure. For Nancy Wong, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE's coverage of the International Women's Showcase 2022. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hi everybody, we're here in downtown Seattle covering AWS storage day. My name is Dave Vellante with the Cube, and we're really excited. We're going to talk about rethinking data protection in the 2020s. I'm here with Nancy Wong, who is the general manager of AWS backup, and Satish Lakshmanan, the director of storage business development at AWS. Folks, welcome. Good to see you again. So let's talk about the evolution of data protection. You've got three major disruptors going on. There's obviously the data explosion. We talk about that all the time, but there's cloud has changed the way people are thinking about data protection and now you've got cyber. What's AWS's point of view on all this. >> Great question, Dave. You know, in my role as the global head of storage business development and solution architecture for storage, I have the privilege of working with customers all around the globe, in every geography and every segment. And we recently talked to thousands of customers and we did a survey for about 5,000 customers. And many of them told us that they expect to see a ransomware attack once every 11 seconds. So it's top of mind for almost every customer so much so that if you remember earlier this year, the white house issued an executive order, you know, making the nation aware of across public and private sector about cybersecurity and the need for, for, for us to be prepared. Customers as a result, largely think of not only ransomware protection, but also recovery. And they have largely allocated budgets across every geography to make sure that they're well protected. And in the, in the event of an attack, they can recover from it. That's where Nancy's, you know, data protection services and backup services come into play. And maybe she'll add a few comments about how she approaches it from a technology perspective. >> Yeah, sure. Thanks, Satish yeah, as a general manager of AWS backup and our data protection services, it's really my team and my charter to help our customers centralize, automate, and also protect themselves from attacks like ransomware. Right? And so for example, you know, across our many services today we offer AWS backup as a secondary data collection and management across our many AWS regions and also across the aid of many AWS accounts that a single customer must manage, right. And if you recall having multiple copies of your data exist in backups is a core part of any customers ransomware protection strategy. And lastly, I just want to say something that we just launched recently called AWS backup audit manager also helps you operationalize and monitor your backups against any ransomware attack. >> So, the adversary, obviously, as we know, was well-equipped and they're quite sophisticated. And anybody who has inside access can become a ransomware attacker because of things like ransomware as a service. So, what are you specifically doing to address ransomware? >> Yeah. So, in talking to several thousand of our customers, what we have learned is customers are typically vulnerable in one or more of three scenarios, right? The first scenario is when they're not technically ready. What that means is either their software patches are not up to date, or they have too many manual processes that really prevent them from being prepared for defending against an attack. The second is typically around a lack of awareness. These are situations where IT administrators leveraging cloud-based services are recognizing that, or not recognizing per se, that they're easy to instances, Lambda instances have public access and same applies to S3 buckets. And the third is lack of governance and governance based practices. The way we are educating our customers training in enabling them and empowering them, because it's a shared security model, is really through our well-architected framework. That's the way we shared best practices that we have learned across all our customers, across our industries. And we enable it and empower them to not only identify areas of vulnerability, but also be able to recover in the event of an attack. Nancy. >> Yeah, and to add to that right, our team, and now my team and I, for example, watch every ransomware incident and because it really informs the way that we plan our product roadmap and deliver features that help our customers protect, detect, and also recover from ransomware. So there's an ebook out there, suggest you go check it out, of securing your cloud environment against ransomware attacks. And aside from the technical maintenance suggestions that Satish provided, as well as the security awareness suggestions, there's really two things that I usually tell customers who come to me with ransomware questions. Which is one, right, don't rely on the good will of your ransomware attacker to restore your data. Because I mean, just studies show over 90% of ransom payers actually don't successfully recover all of their data because, hey, what if they don't give you the full decryption utility? Or what if your backups are not restorable? Right? So, rather than relying on that good will, make sure that you have a plan in place where you can recover from backups in case you get ransomed. Right? And two, is make sure that in addition to just taking backups, which obviously, you know, as a GM of AWS backup, I would highly recommend you do, right. Is make sure that those backups are actually restorable, right? Do game day testing, make sure that it's configured properly because you'd be surprised at the, just the number and the sheer percentage of customers who when, let's say the attack happens, actually find that they don't have a good set of data to recover their businesses from. >> I believe it. Backup is, one thing as they say, recovery is everything. So you've got the AWS well-architected framework. How does that fit in, along with the AWS data protection services into this whole ransomware discussion? >> Yeah, absolutely. You know, the AWS wall architected framework actually has four design approaches that I usually share with customers that are very relevant to the ransomware conversation. And one is, you know, anticipate where that ransomware attack may come from. Right? And two, make sure that you write down your approaches whereby you can solve for that ransomware attack, right? Three, just like I advocate my teams and customers to do, right. Then look back on what you've written down as your approach and reflect back on what are the best practices or lessons learned that you can gain from that exercise. And make sure as part four, is you consistently plan game days where you can go through these various scenario tests or ransomware game day attacks. And lastly, just as a best practice is ransomware recovery and protection isn't just the role of IT Professionals like us, right. It's really important to also include HR, professional, legal professionals. Frankly, anyone in a business who might come and be compromised by ransomware attack, and make sure that they're involved in your response. And so Satish, I'd love to hear as well, how you communicate to customers and what best practices you offer them. >> Yeah, thanks Nancy. I think in addition to the fantastic points you made, Nancy, Dave, the well architected framework has been built on eight to 10 years worth of customer engagements across all segments and verticals. And essentially it's a set of shared best practices, tools, training, and methodology that we, you know, exchange with customers in order to help them be more prepared to fight ransomware attacks and be able to recover from them. Recently, there've been some enhancements made where we have put industry or use case specific lenses to the well architected framework. For example, for customers looking to build IOT applications, customers who are trying to use server less and Lambda functions, customers who may be within the financial services or healthcare life sciences, where to go, looking to understand best practices from other people who've implemented, you know, some of the technologies that Nancy talked about. In addition, as I talked about earlier, training and enablement is extremely critical to make sure that if companies don't have the skillset, we are basically giving them the skillset to be able to defend. So we do a lot of hands-on labs. Lastly, the well architected framework tool has been integrated into the console, and it gives customers who are essentially managing the workloads, the ability to look at access permissions, ability to look at what risks they have through malware and ransomware detection techniques. Machine learning capability is built into all the services that are native to AWS that allow them to then react to them. If companies don't have the skills, we have a vast network of partners who can help them basically implement the right technologies. And they can always reach out to our technical account manager for additional information as well. >> I love the best practice discussion. For customers, it's a journey. I mean, CSOs tell us their one problem is lack of talent and so they need help. So, last question is what can people expect from AWS? You're the experts. In particular, how you can help them recover from ransomware? >> Yeah, and that conversation is ever evolving, right? As hackers get more sophisticated then clearly we have to get more sophisticated as well. And so one of our mental models that we often share with customers is defense in depth, right? So if you consider all of the layers, including all of the constructs that exist natively on AWS, right? The first layer is through identity access management constructs. So building a trust radius around your workloads, around your applications, whereby you can deny permissions or access permissions to individuals who are not authorized to access your mission critical applications, right. Then beyond that first layer of defense, the second layer should be automated monitoring or observability. For example, if individuals were to penetrate within your security perimeter, and often times I, you know, that could be done through a delayed response where it gives your CSO or your security operations team, the ability to react to such a unauthorized access, for example. And so the third line of defense is if someone were to penetrate both first layer, as well as the second layer, is actually through backups. And this is where it goes back to what I was mentioning earlier is make sure that your backups are ready and able to be restored and have the RTO and SLA guarantees that help your business remain functional even after an attack. >> Excellent. Guys, we got to go. I love that, zero trust layer defenses, got to have the observability in the analytics and then the last resort RTO, and of course, RPO. Guys, thanks so much, really appreciate your insights. >> Good to see you. >> Thank you for watching. Keep it right there for more great content from AWS storage day. (upbeat music)

>>From San Francisco. It's the cube covering PagerDuty summit 2019 brought to you by PagerDuty. >>Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff, Rick here with the cube. We're in downtown San Francisco at PagerDuty summit, the fourth year, the show third year. The cube being here. I think they finally outgrown the Western st Francis. We've got to have a better, a bigger venue but we're really excited to have our next guest doing super, super important work. We learned about this company a couple of weeks back at AWS. Imagine non profit, the Polaris company and we are happy to have Nancy Maguire. She's the CEO. >>Oh Nancy, great to see you Jeff. It's fantastic to be here. Thanks so much for having me and it's great to be back at the PagerDuty summit a second year in a row. Last year I was here last year. I'm on the big stage, is it? I've grown the venue. Are we ready to move to a larger, possibly a larger venue next year? They're doing incredible work. So really a really fortunate to interview Brad a couple of weeks ago. So for people that didn't see that, don't know players. Give us kind of the overview about what you guys are up to. What's your mission? Absolutely. So Polaris is an organization dedicated to ending human trafficking and restoring freedom to survivors. So for those that may not know what we're talking about when we talk about human trafficking is three main categories. Anybody who is forced to work against their will by means of force, fraud or coercion. >>Any adult in the commercial sex trade by means of force, fraud or coercion, and any minor, anyone 17 or younger in the commercial sex trade. And the way we think about this issue is in two halves that are complimentary. One is on the response side, we've got 25 million people around the world who fit that definition that I just described. And so it's about individual case management and helping to get them out of those situations. The way Polaris works on the response side of the issue is by operating to U S national human trafficking hotline. This is the nerve center for the anti-trafficking movement in the United States where we work 24 seven to connect to victims and survivors to the services they need to get help, stay safe, and began to rebuild their lives. So that's half of the story. The other half of the story is we recognize that the response side, while absolutely invaluable, doesn't get at solutions to the problems. >>So we work on longer term solutions to the issue of human trafficking. And the way we do that is through data and technology. So we haven't asked one of the largest data sets on human trafficking in the U S and we've mined that data for insight about how trafficking works. So we've learned there are 25 distinct types in the U S alone. We've then dug deeper to understand what are the legitimate businesses and industries that traffickers are using for their crimes. And those include social media, hotels, motels, transportation, financial services among others. And then we take those insights. We work with private sector companies, public sector, and law enforcement to get to upstream strategies to prevent and disrupt this issue at scale. So, unfortunately we don't have three days to dig through the that good list. But let's, let's unpack some of it cause it's super, super important on the, uh, on the data side, cause we're here at PG. >>So what are the types of data that you guys are looking at? The buildings mall and it was fascinating, Brad's conversation about the multiple kind of business models that you guys have have defined as was, was it lightning for sure. So what types of data are you looking at? Where are you getting the data? What are you doing with it? Yeah, absolutely. So I think the first thing to know is that this is a clandestine issue. And for so long the field has been data poor and it's been really hard to unpack what we mean by sex trafficking and labor trafficking to wrap our arms around the problem. And so we've had these really significant breakthroughs just in the last few years with a, by understanding that there are these 25 types. And that was through mining over 35,000 cases that we worked on on the national hotline over the years. >>And that our second major research initiative was to augment that with surveys and focus groups with survivors. So those with lived experience have now informed the data set and some examples of what we've learned, how our traffickers using hotels and motels for their operations, how do they use credit cards, how do they use buses and planes and trains and rideshares and how are victims recruited on social media. And conversely, how can they reach out for help, including through our hotline. Um, and so we're starting to really get granular about the nature of this problem. And then where are those key intersection points? Where do we have leverage? And a big part of the answer is, is the private sector, right? Right. So, uh, you know, the kind of the intersection from the clandestine in the dark and secret, you know, to, to the public, as you said, were things like credit cards or they need to get on planes. >>So they need hotels. It's a pretty interesting way to address the problem because there are these little, little, little points where they pop up into the light. Absolutely. So when you're doing that in your building, the longer term strategy one, it's to get the other, the people out of there. But are you trying to change the business models? I mean, how, what are some of these kind of longer term reservoirs? Absolutely. So right now the equation that traffickers perceive is this is the financial crime, right? It's not just a human rights abuse, right? Right. The equation they perceive is that this is high profit, low risk. We've flipped that equation. For instance, when financial institutions are tuned into, I have the built in red flag indicators for all the different types of trafficking that they might see. So it makes it simply too difficult for, or too risky for traffickers to bank and move their money. >>So that's one example. Another is in the realm of social media. So we've understood how traffickers are exploiting victims on social media. It can look like anything from grooming and recruitment on in sex trafficking to um, fake, uh, job ads on social media as well. So as we can help to inform social media companies, again working in tandem with victims and survivors to put those lived experiences into and leverage those insights into solutions, we can make change that equation for traffickers to it is simply too difficult and too risky to recruit online and push them to sort of more old school systems of recruitment that those are the sorts of upstream things that we believe are really going to change. Change the game, right? So it's recruiting, it's taking their money away, it's making it expensive for them to operate a lot of those types of, exactly. >>And the real focus is on these six systems and industries that we've identified. And tech is really a crucial, obviously social media companies, hotels, motels, transportation. Um, and for instance, one of the, one of our partners is Delta airlines and so they have been, I think one of the exemplars and really looking at this issue holistically and being all in from the CEO on down and leveraging again, why we think the private sector is so crucial is they've got the resources, the customer base, the engaged employees. Um, they've got the brand. And so for instance, what Delta does is they've trained all 60 plus thousand employees on how to, how to spot and detect human trafficking and what to do. They engage their customer base through PSA is and people can donate miles including that ended up, um, helping victims and survivors on our hotline to get flights to get out of their situations, um, and resources to, to support the hotline to scale. >>Um, and so it really takes that, we think the private sector is a huge piece of, of the puzzle and sort of bringing it back to the tech industry. The tech industry is uniquely position again with the tools, the resources that know how to actually supercharge this movement because it's going to be data in technology that's going to get us to scale. Right? Yeah. The, the Delta story is amazing. If for people that haven't seen it, um, you know, the CEO got completely behind this, basically train the entire company and other passengers to look for these anomalies. And, and what came up, some of the conversations in Seattle is it's really not that hard because you've got your business travelers and you got your families and you got these things that don't really fit. And that's, I don't know what percentage of the total flights, but it's a lot. >>So these things, if you're paying attention, it should be a lot easier to identify. So PagerDuty specifically, what are you guys doing with PagerDuty? Absolutely. Polaris and the broader anti-trafficking movement is engaged in a digital transformation. And so for us, that's on the response side, both on our hotline and on our data side so we can supercharge that learning and insight development. PagerDuty is central to our ability to, um, increase our efficiency on the hotline. It's, it's uh, uh, the hotline itself is composed of a number of different technologies. We cannot have any of those technologies go down because minutes and seconds matter on a crisis hotline. So PagerDuty helps us be as efficient as we can be in escalating urgent issues so they can immediately begin being worked on by our technical team. We don't lose those seconds and minutes and hours, um, as in sort of the, the old school model. >>So it's, it's part of our broader strategy and we've already been able to identify significant efficiency gains as a result when, when it's a response situation that someone's, someone got the number, they've got it, they got an opportunity to try to get out. What's the total time? Usually between they pick, picking up the phone and you giving them some action, which I don't know what the action is, runaway or somebody coming to get you or you know, it really depends on the situation. Um, of course if we're talking about a minor or a situation with imminent harm, um, but we can be talking about something, you know, an extraction or somebody getting to help within a matter of minutes. In other instances, safety planning at the victim and survivors wishes takes place over a period of calls over a period of contact. Sometimes it takes, it can take months or years to work up the courage to get to that point. >>So we do have ongoing communications with victims and survivors over time to support them, uh, to, to leave when they're, when they're ready. Right. Well, Nancy, it's such, it's such important, important work, not necessarily the most positive thing, but I'm sure there's a lot of great positive stories when you're helping these, these people get out of these crazy stories. Well, absolutely. And I think, you know, there was so much reason to be optimistic. This is a really unique moment in time and it's part of why I joined Polaris and joined this anti-trafficking movement is we're seeing, we're seeing unprecedented engagement from the private sector that I mentioned I think is absolutely critical to solving this issue when we've had real breakthroughs with the data so that we can get so much more granular and understanding how it works. So there's now really, as the time, I mean as, as as Jennifer said, she talking about digital transformation this morning, being a team sport, we think the anti-trafficking movement needs to be a team sport, right? >>We want to draw that circle a much bigger stick. Who's in that? Then we invite private sector technology companies and all of you out there to join us. Good. Well, hopefully we're helping get the word out and um, and again, you know, thank you for, for, for what you're doing. It's super important and it's much more pervasive and broad than, than I had ever imagined, perhaps some of these conversations. So thanks a lot. Thank you so much. All right. She's Nancy. I'm Jeff. You're watching the cube. We're a PagerDuty summit in downtown San Francisco. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>> from Burlingame, California It's the Cube covering Suma logic Illuminate 2019. Brought to You by Sumer Logic. >> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeffrey here with the Cube worth, assume a logic illuminate 2019 of it. It's at the Hyatt Regency San Francisco airport. About 809 100 people are second year. It's a 30 year of the event, excited to be here and watch it grow. We've seen a bunch of these things grow from little to bigger over a number of years, and it's always funded kind of beer for the zenith. We're excited to do it by our next guest. She's an analyst. It's Nancy Goering, senior analyst for 4 51 research. Nancy, great to see you. >> Thank you for having me. >> Absolutely so first off, Just kind of impressions of the event here. >> Yeah, good stuff. You know, like he's definitely trying to, you know, get on top of some of the big trends. You know, The big news here was their new Cooper nineties monitoring, also obviously kind of staying on the the leading edge of the cloud. Native Technologies. >> It's it's amazing how fast it's growing, you know, doing some research for this. Then I found some of your stuff out on the Internet and just one quote. I think it's from years ago, but just for people to kind of understand the scale, I think, he said, Google was launching four billion containers a week. Twitter had 12,000. Service is uber 4000. Micro service is Yelp and Justin 25 million data points per minute. I think this is like a two or three year old presentation. I mean, the scale in which the data is moving is astronomical. >> Yeah, well, I mean, if you think of Google launching four billion containers every week, they're collecting a number of different data points about a container spinning up about the operation of that container while it's alive about the container spinning down. So it's not even just four billion pieces of data. It's, you know, multiply that by 10 20 or many more. So, yeah, So the volume of operations dated that people are faced with is just, you know, out of this world, and some of that is beginning to get abstracted away, terms of what you need to look at. So, you know, Kubernetes is an orchestration engine so that's helping move things around. You still need to collect that data to inform automation tools, right? So even if you was, even if humans aren't really looking at it, it's being used to drive automation, right? It still has to be collected, >> right, And they're still configurations and settings and and dials. And it seems like a lot of the breaches that we hear about today are people just miss configuring something on us. It's human error. And so how do we kind of square the circle? Because the date is only growing. The quantity sources, the complexity, Yeah, the lack of structure. And that's before we had a I ot And now we got edge devices and they're all reporting in from from home. Yeah, crazy problem. It's >> really, I think, driving a lot of the investments in the focus and more sophisticated analytics, right? So that's why you're hearing a lot more about machine learning. And a I in this space is because humans can't just look at that huge volume >> of data and >> figure out what it means. So the development of machine learning tools, for instance, is gonna pull out a piece of data that's important. Here is the anomaly. This is the thing you should be paying attention to. Andi, obviously getting increasingly sophisticated, right? In terms of correlating data from different parts of your infrastructure in order to yet make sense of it, >> right? And then, Oh, by the way, they're all made up of micro service is a literal interconnected in AP eyes. The third party providers. Yeah. I mean, the complexity is ridicu >> and then, you know, and I've been actually thinking and talking a lot recently about organizational issues within companies that exacerbate some of these challenges. So you mentioned Micro Service is so ah, lot of times, you know, you've got Dev ops groups and an individual Dev Ops group is responsible for a or multiple. Micro service is right. They're all running, sort of autonomous. They're doing their own thing, right? So they could move quickly. But is there anybody overseeing the application that's made up of maybe 1000 Micro Service's? And in some cases, the answer is no. And so it may look like all the Micro Service's are operating well, but the user experience actually is not good, and no one really notices until the user starts complaining. So it's like things start. You know, you have to think about organizational things. Who's responsible for that, right? You know, if you're on a Dev ops team and your job has been to support the certain service's and not the whole, like who's responsible for the whole application and that's it's a challenge, it's something. Actually, in our surveys, we're hearing from people that they're looking for people that skill set, someone who understands how to look at Micro Service's as they work together to deliver a service, right? It's it's a It's a pain point. Shouldn't >> the project the product manager for that application would hopefully have some instances abilities to kind of what they're trying to optimize for? >> In some cases, they're not technical enough, right? A product manager doesn't necessarily have the depth to know that, or they're not used to using the types of tools that the Dev Ops team or the operations team would use to track the performance of an application. So sometimes it's just a matter of having the right tooling in front of them, >> and then even the performance I was like What do you optimizing four you optimized for security up the mind thing for speed are optimizing for yeah, you can optimize for everything if you got a stack rank order at some point in time. So that would also then drive in a different prioritization or the way that you look at those doctorsservices performance. Yeah, interesting. It's another big topic that comes up often is the vision of a single pane of glass in You know, I can't help but think is in my work day. You know how often I'm tabbing between, you know, sales force and email and slack and asana and, um, a couple of browsers air open. I mean, it's it's it's bananas, you know, it's no longer just that that email is the only thing that's open on my desk all day and only imagine the Dev Ops world. No, we saw just crazy complexity around again, managing all the micro service's of the AP eyes. So what's kind of the story? What are you seeing in kind of the development of that? And there's so many vendors now, and so many service is yeah, it's not just we're just gonna put in HB open view, and that's the standard, and that's what we're all right on. >> So if you're looking at it from the lens of of monitoring or observe ability or performance. Traditionally, you had different tools that looked at, say, different layers of a service, so you had a tool that was looking at infrastructure. Was your infrastructure monitoring tool. You had an application performance monitoring tool. You might have a network performance monitoring tool. You might have point tools that are looking just at the data base layer. But as things get more complicated, Azadliq ations are getting much more complex. Looking at that data in a silo tool tends to obscure the bigger picture. You don't understand when you're looking at the's separate tools how some piece of infrastructure might be impacting the application, for instance. And so the idea is to bring all of that operations data about the performance of an application in tow. One spot where you can run again, these more sophisticated analytics so that you can understand the relationship between the different layers of the application stack also horizontally, right? So how micro service's that are dependent on each other? How one micro service might be impacting the performance of another. So that's conceptually the idea behind having a single pane of glass. Now the execution can happen in a bunch of different ways, so you can have one vendor. There are vendors that are growing horizontally, so they're collecting data across the stack. And there's other vendors that are positioning themselves as that sort of central data repositories, so they may not directly collect all of that data. But they might in just some data that another monitoring vendor has collected. So there's an end. You know, there's there's always going to be good arguments for best of breed tools, right? So, you know, in most cases, businesses are not going to settle on just one monitoring tool that does it all. But that's conceptually the reason, right, and you want to bring all of this data together. However you get it, however, it's being collected so that you can analyze it and understand that big picture performance of a complicated application, >> right? But then, even then, as you said, you don't even want, you're not really monitoring the application performance per se. You're just waiting for the you're waiting for some of those needles to fall out of the haystack because you just you just can't get that much stuff. And you know, it's where do you focus your priority? You know what's most critical? What needs attention now. And if without a machine to help kind of point you in the right direction, you're gonna have a hard time finding that needle. >> And there's a lot of different approaches that are beginning to develop. So one is this idea of SL owes or service level objectives. And so, for instance, a really common service level objective that teams are looking at is Leighton. See, So this Leighton see of the service should never drop under whatever ah 100 milliseconds. And and if it does, I want to be alerted. And also if it drops below that objective for a certain amount of time, that can actually help you as a team. Allocate, resource is so if you're not living up to that service level objective, maybe you should shift some people's time toe working on improving the application instead of developing a new feature, right? So it can really help you prioritize your time because you know what? There was a time when people in operations teams or Dev. Ops teams had a really hard time, and they still d'oh figuring out which problems are important because you've always people always have a lot of performance problems going on. So which do you focus your time on? And it's been pretty opaque. It's hard to see. Is this performance impacting the bottom line of my business? Is this impacting? You know, my customers? Are we losing business over this? Like that's That's a really common question that people I can't answer, right? So there you people are beginning to develop these approaches to try to figure out how to prioritize work on performance problems. It's >> interesting because the other one that and some of you mentioned before is kind of this post incident review instead of a post boredom. And, you know, you talked about culture and words matter, and I think that's a really interesting take because it's it's it implies we're gonna learn, and we're gonna go forward. It's dead. Um, yeah, you know, we're gonna yell at each other and someone's gonna get blamed. That's exactly it. And we're going to move on. So, you know, how is that kind of evolved in. And how does that really help organizations do a better job? >> There's, I mean, there's there's much more of a focus on setting aside time to do that kind of analysis, right? So look at how we're performing as a team. Look at how we responded to an incident so that you can find ways that you can do better next time and some of that Israel tactical right? It's tweaking alerts. Did we not get an alert? You know, did we not even know this problem was happening? So maybe you build new alerts or sport get rid of a bunch of alerts that did nothing. You know, there's there's a lot you can learn on again to To your point, I think part of the reason people have started calling in a post Incident review instead of a postmortem is because yet you don't want that to be a session where people are feeling like Blaine. You know, this is my fault. I screwed up. I spent way too long on this, so I >> had to >> set things out properly. It's it's meant to be productive. Let's find the weak points and fill them right. Fill those gaps. >> It's funny you had another. There's another thing I found where you were talking about not not necessarily the Post Borden, but you know, people, people being much more proactive, much more, you know, thoughtful as to how they are going to take care of these things. And it is really more of a social cultural change unnecessarily. The technical piece that culture pieces. So so >> it is and especially, you know, right now there's a lot of focus on on tooling and that can cause some, you know, interesting issues. So, you know, especially in an organization that has really adopted Dev ops practices like the idea of a Dev Ops team is that it's very autonomous. They do what they do, what they need to do right to move fast and to get the job done. And that often includes choosing your own tools, but that that has created a number of problems, especially in monitoring. So if you have 100 Dev ops teams and they all have chosen their own, monitoring tools like this is not efficient, so it's not. It's not a good idea because those tools aren't talking to each other, even though they're micro service's that are dependent on each other. It's inefficient. From a business perspective. You've got all these relationships with vendors, and in some cases, with a single vendor, you might have 50 instances of the same monitoring tool that you know you have 50 accounts with them, like that's just totally inefficient. And then you've got people on a Dev ops, an individual, all the all the individual Dev ops teams have a person who's supposed to be the resident expert in these tools, like maybe you should share that knowledge across. But my point is, you get into the situation where you have hundreds of monitoring tools, sometimes 40 50 monitoring tools. You realize that's a problem. How do you address that problem? Because you're gonna have to go out and tell people you can't use this tool that you love. That helps you do your job that you chose. And so again, this whole cultural question comes out like, How do you manage that transition in a way that's gonna be productive? >> Thea other one that you brought up that was interesting is where the the sport team basically tells the business team you only have X number of incidents. We're gonna give you a budget. Yeah, exceed the budget. We're not going to help you. It's a really different way to think about prioritization. I >> don't necessarily think that's a great approach, but I mean, there was somebody who did that, but I think it's kind of it's kind of >> an interesting thing. And you talked about it in that. I think it was one of your presentations or speeches where, you know, it makes you kind of rethink. You know, why do we have so many incidents? Yeah, and there shouldn't be that many incidents, and maybe some of the responsibility should be shifted to think about why in the how and is more of a systemic problem than a feature problem or a bug, right? It's a broken code. So again, I think there's so many kind of cultural opportunities to rethink this. In a world of continuous development, continuous publishing and continuous pushing out of new code. Yeah, yeah, sure. All right. Nancy will. Thanks for taking a few minutes, and it's really great to talk to you. Thanks >> for having me. >> Alright. She's Nancy. I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube where it's Uma Logic illuminate 2019. Thanks for watching. We'll see next time

>> Narrator: From Burlingame, California, it's theCUBE, covering Sumo Logic Illuminate 2019! Brought to you by Sumo Logic. >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at the Sumo Logic Illuminate 2019 event. It's at the Hyatt Regency San Francisco Airport, about eight hundred, nine hundred people, our second year. It's the third year of the event. Excited to be here and watch it grow. We've seen a bunch of these things grow from little to big over a number of years and it's always fun to kind of be here for the zenith. We're excited to be joined by our next guest, she's an analyst. It's Nancy Gohring, Senior Analyst for 451 Research. Nancy, great to see you. >> Thank you, thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. So first off, just kind of impressions of the event here. >> Yeah, good stuff, you know? Definitely trying to, you know, get on top of some of the big trends, you know, the big news here was their new Kubernetes monitoring tool. So obviously kind of staying on the leading edge of the cloud-native technologies. >> It's amazing how fast it's growing, you know. Doing some research for this event, I found some of your stuff out on the internet, and just one quote, I think it's from years ago, but just for people to kind of understand the scale, I think you said Google was launching four billion containers a week, Twitter had twelve thousand services, Uber four thousand microservices, Yelp ingesting twenty-five million data points per minute, and I think this is a two or three year old presentation, I mean, the scale in which the data is moving is astronomical. >> Yeah, well if you think of Google launching four billion containers every week, they're collecting a number of different data points about a container spinning up, about the operation of that container while it's alive, about the container spinning down. So it's not even just four billion pieces of data, it's, you know, multiply that by ten or twenty or many more. So yeah, so the volume of operations data that people are faced with, is just, you know out of this world. And some of that is beginning to get abstracted away in terms of what you need to look at so you know Kubernetes is an orchestration engine so that's helping move thing around. You still need to collect that data to inform automation tools, right, so even humans aren't really looking at it, it's being used to drive automation. >> Right. >> It still has to be collected. >> Right. And there's still configurations and settings and dials and it seems like a lot of the breaches that we hear about today are just people misconfiguring something on AWS >> Yeah, it's human error. >> It's human error. And so how do we kind of square the circle cause the data's only growing the quantity, the sources, the complexity, the lack of structure and that's before we add IOT and now we have edge devices and they're all reporting in from home. >> Yeah >> Crazy problems. >> It's really, I think, driving a lot of the investments and the focus in more sophisticated analytics, right, so that's why you're hearing a lot more about machine learning and AI in this space. It's because humans can't just look at that huge volume of data and figure out what it means. So, the development of machine learning tools, for instance, is going to pull out a piece of data that's important. Like, here's the anomaly, this is the thing you should be paying attention to. And then obviously getting increasingly sophisticated, right, in terms of correlating data from different parts of your infrastructure in order to make sense of it. >> Right. And then, oh, by the way, they're all made up of microservices that are all interconnected and API is the third party providers >> Yeah. >> I mean the complexity is ridiculous. >> Yeah, and then, you know, and I've been actually thinking and talking a lot recently about organizational issues within companies that exacerbates some of these challenges. So you mentioned microservices. So, a lot of times, you know, you've got DevOps groups and an individual DevOps group is responsible for a, or multiple, microservices, right. They're all running sort of autonomous. They're doing their own thing, right, so that they can move quickly. But is there anybody overseeing the application that's made up of maybe a thousand microservices? And in some cases the answer is "no". And so it may look like all the microservices are operating well, but the user experience actually is not good. And no one really notices until the user starts complaining. So, it's like things start, you know you have to think about organizational things. Who's responsible for that, right? If you're on a DevOps team and your job as been to support these certain services and not the whole, like, who's responsible for the whole application? >> Right. >> And that's, it's a challenge. It's something, actually, in our surveys, we're hearing from people that they're looking for people, that skill set, someone who understands how to look at microservices as they work together to deliver a service, right, it's a pain point. >> Shouldn't the project, or the product manager for that application would hopefully have some visibilities to kind of what they're trying to optimize for. >> In some cases they're not technical enough, right, a product manager doesn't necessarily have the depth to know that. Or they're not used to using tools that the DevOps team or the operations team would use to track the performance of an application. >> Right. >> So sometimes it's just a matter of having the right tooling in front of them >> And then even the performance. It's like, what are you optimizing for? Are you optimizing for security? Are you optimizing for speed? Are you optimizing for... >> Experience... >> You can't optimize for everything. You've got to stack rank order at some point in time, so that would also then drive in a different prioritization or the way that you look at those microservices' performance. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Interesting. So another big topic that comes up often is the vision of a single pane of glass. And, you know, I can't help but think as in my work day how often I'm tabbing between you know, sales force, and email, and slack, and Asana, and a couple of browsers are open. I mean, it's bananas, you know. It's no longer just that email is the only thing that's open on my desk all day. >> Yeah. >> And then you can only imagine the DevOps world that we saw just crazy complexity around, again, managing all the microservices, the APIs, so what kinds of, sort of, what are you seeing in kind of the development of that? And there's so many vendors now, and so many services. >> Yeah. >> It's not just, we're just going to put in HP open view and that's the standard and that's what we're all on. >> So if you're looking at it from the lens of monitoring or observability or performance, traditionally you had different tools that looked at, say, different layers of a service. So you had a tool that was looking at infrastructure - it was your infrastructure monitoring tool. You had an application performance monitoring tool. You might have a network performance monitoring tool. You might have point tools that are looking just at the data base layer. But as things get more complicated, as applications are getting much more complex, looking at that data in a silo tool tends to obscure the bigger picture. You don't understand when you're looking at the separate tools how some piece of infrastructure might be impacting the application, for instance. And so, the idea is to bring all of that operations data about the performance of an application into one spot where you can run, again, these more sophisticated analytics so that you can understand the relationship between the different layers of the application stack, also horizontally, right, so, how microservices that are dependent on eachother how one microservice might be impacting the performance of another, so that's conceptually the idea behind having a single pane of glass. Now the execution can happen in a bunch of different ways. So you can have one vendor, there are vendors that are growing horizontally, so they're collecting data across the stack. There's other vendors that are positioning themselves as that sort of central data repository. So they may not directly collect all of that data, but they might ingest some data that another monitoring vendor has collected. So, there's, and, you know, there's always going to be good arguments for best of breed tools right, so, you know, in most cases, businesses are not going to settle on just one monitoring tool that does it all. But that's conceptually the reason, right, is you want to bring all of this data together however you get it, however it's being collected, so that you can analyze it and understand that "big picture" performance of a complicated application. >> Right. But then, even then, as you said, you don't even want to, you're not really monitoring the application performance per se, you're just waiting for the, you're waiting for some of those needles to fall out of the haystack, cause you just, you just can. There's so much stuff. And you know, it's where do you focus your priority. You know, what's most critical, what needs attention now. >> (Nancy) Yeah. >> And if, without a machine to help kind of, point you in the right direction, you're going to have a hard time finding that needle. >> Yeah, and there's a lot of different approaches that are beginning to develop. And one is this idea of SLO's, or Service Level Objectives. And so, for instance a really common Service Level Objective that teams are looking at is latency. So, the latency of the service should never drop under whatever- a hundred milliseconds, and if it does, I want to be alerted. And also, if it drops below that objective for a certain amount of time that can actually help you as a team allocate resources. So, if you're not living up to that Service Level Objective, maybe you should shift some people's time to working on improving the application instead of developing a new feature. Right? >> (Jeff) Right. >> So it can really help you prioritize your time because you know what? There was a time, people in operations teams, or DevOps teams, had a really hard time, and they still do, figuring out which problems are important. 'Cause you've always, people always have a lot of performance problems going on. So which do you focus your time on? And it's been pretty opaque. It's hard to see, is this performance impacting the bottom line in my business? Is this impacting, you know, my customers? Are we losing business over this? Like, that's, that's a really common question that people can't answer. >> Right. >> So, yeah, people are beginning to develop these approaches to try to figure out how to prioritize work on performance problems. >> It's interesting 'cause the other one that you've mentioned before, kind of this post incident review instead of a post mortem and you know, you talked about culture, and "words matter" >> (Nancy) Yeah. >> And I think that's a really interesting take because it's, it implies, we're going to learn, and we're going to go forward as opposed to "it's dead". >> (Linda) Yeah. >> And, you know, we're going to yell at eachother, and someone's going to get blamed... >> (Linda) That's exactly it... >> And we're going to move on. So, you know, how has that kind of evolved and how does that really help organizations do a better job? >> There's, I mean, there's much more of a focus on setting aside time to do that kind of analysis, right? So look at how we're performing as a team. Look at how we responded to an incident so that you can find ways that you can do better next time. And some of that is real tactical, right, it's tweaking alerts. Did we not get an alert? You know, did we not even know this problem was happening? So maybe you build new alerts or get rid of a bunch of alerts that did nothing. You know, there's a lot you can learn and again, to your point, I think part of the reason people have started calling it a post incident review instead of a post mortem is because, yeah, you don't want that to be as session where people are feeling like blame, you know, this is my fault, I screwed up, I spent way too long on this, or I hadn't set things up properly. It's meant to be productive. >> Right. >> Let's find the weak points and fill them. Right? Fill those gaps. >> It's funny you had another, there was another thing I found, you were talking about not, not necessarily the post mortem but, you know, people being much more pro-active, much more, you know, thoughtful as to how they are going to take care of these things. And it is really more of a social, cultural change than necessarily the technical piece. That culture piece is so, so important. >> It is, and especially, you know, right now there's a lot of focus on tooling and that can cause some, you know, interesting issues. So you know, especially in an organization that has really adopted DevOps practices like, the idea of a DevOps team is that it's very autonomous. They do what they need to do, right, to move fast and to get the job done and that often includes choosing your own tools. But that has created a number of problems especially in monitoring. So if you have a hundred DevOps teams and they all have chosen their own monitoring tools, like, this is not efficient. So it's not a good idea because those tools aren't talking to each other, even though they're microservices that are dependent on each other. It's inefficient from a business perspective. You've got all these relationships with vendors and in some cases with a single vendor. You might have fifty instances of the same monitoring tool that, you know, you have fifty accounts with them. Like that's just totally inefficient. And then you've got people on a DevOps and individual, all the individual DevOps teams have a person who's supposed to be the resident expert in these tools, like, maybe you should share that knowledge across... But my point is you get into this situation where you have hundreds of monitoring tools. Sometimes forty, fifty monitoring tools. You realize that's a problem. How do you address that problem? 'Cause you're going to have to go out and tell people you can't use this tool that you love, that helps you do your job, that you chose. So again this whole cultural question comes up. Like, how do you manage that transition in a way that's going to be productive? >> The other one that you brought up that was interesting was where the support team basically tells the business team you only have X-number of incidents, we're going to give you a budget. (laughs) >> Yeah. >> If you exceed the budget we're not going to help you. It's a really different way to think about prioritization... >> Yeah, I don't necessarily think that's a great approach. I mean there was somebody who did that but like... >> But I think its kind of, it's kind of an interesting thing. And you talked about it in that I think it was one of your presentations or speeches where, you know, it makes you kind of re-think, you know, why do we have so many incidents? >> Yeah. >> And there shouldn't be that many incidents. And maybe some of the responsibility should be shifted to think about why, and the how, and is it more of a systemic problem than a feature problem, or a bug, or... >> Right >> A piece of broken code, so again I think there's so many, kind of, cultural opportunities to re-think this, in this world of continuous development, continuous publishing, continuous pushing out of new code. >> Yeah, yeah. For sure. (laughs) >> Alright Nancy, well thanks for taking a few minutes and it was really great to talk to you. >> Thanks for having me. >> Alright, she's Nancy, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE, where it's Sumo Logic Illuminate 2019. Thanks for watching We'll see you next time (electonic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering NetApp Insight 2018, brought to you by NetApp. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. I'm Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman, live in Las Vegas at Mandalay Bay at NetApp Insight 2018, the third annual with customers, partners, endless press, NetAppians. We're excited to welcome two alumni back to theCUBE. We have Nancy Hart, Head of Marketing for Cloud Infrastructure at NetApp, and Dale Degen, Cloud Infrastructure Business Director. Guys, welcome back to theCUBE. >> Thank you so much. It's so great to see you guys again. >> Likewise. So we got back from a standing room only keynote, thousands of people here, and one of the interesting things, Nancy, that Stu and I both observed were today no product announcements. It was really about concepts. The first time we heard anything architecture related was really the Data Fabric, but George Kurian, the CEO of NetApp, talked about the four principles of digital transformation. >> Nancy: Right >> I wonder if we can unpack those with you guys. >> Nancy: Yes >> The first one talking about digital transformation requires IT transformation. >> Nancy: Yes >> Talk to us about that speed as the new scale. What does that mean for NetAPP as a company that needs transformed... >> Nancy: Right >> and to your customers? >> So it means for our customers the idea is that speed is the new scale, right. That to create new businesses, to create new opportunities, to create new revenues, there has to be a lot more agile and agilent on their ITs. Right. So, NetApp will really focus on doing is how to break down the barriers between Dev and Ops. The days of silos, months of provisioning all of that is now gone. Because companies need to now help their teams build faster, build better, and that's really what George was talking about, in this idea that the speed is the new scale. And if our customers are not driving IT agile... Agile IT operations on their own data centers, their competitors certainly are. >> How does... NetApp talks a lot about being driven, the data authority and hybrid cloud. George also said hybrid clouds do in multi-cloud or the defacto architecture. >> Yes >> When you talk with customers, how do they digest "NetApp's going to help "me be data driven?" >> Nancy: Right >> What's that conversation like? >> So, looks like a lot these days, we have our customers, they have their own users, their own internal DevOps team who have gotten very used to taking their Corporate AMEX and running up the Amazon, setting up a new compute shape or storage. The thing is we see customers are trying to rebalance where they put their data cap with data, where they put their applications. Do somethings being, belong in public cloud? Absolutely, but there is also this natural rebalance, that not every application should be in the cloud. For reasons of data governance, perhaps cost, whatever it is, when they build that next new application, it may be in the data center. So, to make that work is the idea of a hybrid multi-cloud experience, and the key part of that is the experience. It's not a management experience. It's a consumption experience. It's a very seamless, simple consumption experience if you've got up in the public cloud, but in a private cloud in your data center. >> Stu: Nancy, I like that. We've always, we've been saying on theCUBE for a couple of years now, cloud is not a destination, it's an operating model. >> Yes It's the way we need to think things, but Dale, when I talk to customers, we talk about their cloud strategy, we talk about what they want, every single one of them, totally different. How much they're doing SaaS , versus how many mulvic public lines they're doing, and of course, they're still figuring out what they've got in their traditional data centers. And its that certain companies have been selling them multiple products, they've got their data all spread out, so, are we getting away from silos, how architecturally do we build this? There's so much differentiation out in the marketplace today. It'd be lovely to have a magic wand and say "Oh, everything's, "you know, simple." But that really hasn't been the case in an enterprise IT. >> Dale: I think you nailed it the way you described it right there You have an enterprises that have built up a collection of applications, some of them have been given a cloud mandate. And so, that means something different to everyone. Sometimes they're going out all SaaS, sometimes they're saying, "I want to put everything, "all my storage in the cloud." We're seeing an interesting moment in time where, there's almost a reaction to that, and finding out maybe there's silos within different public cloud service providers, maybe the monthly cost is a little bit larger than what people might have expected on that. At NetApp, we've been working with our customers, I kind of love being here because the last couple years has just been this huge transformation of the company around that, taking a lot of our customers have viewed us as number one in storage the trusted provider on that. I really, expanding out to a more data driven solution on there. And things we've done internally to address side is really focused on different business imperatives there. Because I think each of our customers has their data center that they need their rock solid applications on. They're thinking about this journey to the cloud. They're trying to innovate with acceleration in the cloud with different services with the cloud public... the biggest public clouds and along the way they're also saying "I need some of that agility internally." And so we've, we've really built that, to build out your kind of a hybrid multi cloud experience. And the company strategy is coming together. We're seeing investments, we're seeing growth and announcements and all of those. >> So one of the interesting things that I observed in the keynote this morning was NetApp being 26 year old, 26 years young company, right? Massive install base. You've got a lot of customers who were not born in the digital age and George Kurian your CEO seems to kind of address them almost right out of the gate. >> Nancy: Yes. >> So let's talk about the data fabric a little bit more. Let's unpack that because some of the messaging seems to be reflecting that, that, and I think Anthony liked talked about this a little bit this morning in the keynote as well. It, it's, it's transforming from a vision to an architecture for your customers, your incumbent enterprise customers who were not born in the cloud, what does being data driven mean to them? How are they embracing this architecture idea of the data fabric and using it to use their data to identify new customer touchpoints, deliver new services, increased revenue? >> Dale: So we're seeing a lot of our customers really transform their business to take advantage of these new services in the cloud. The value that a lot of them are bringing to us is they have a massive amount of institutional data that maybe was in different silos. May be they had different as a service offerings touching it. We're able to bring it together with the data fabric. So now they can consolidate this into a large amount of tangible data. You can have multiple as a service solutions and services coming from public cloud service providers to do analytics on data. For example, we have energy companies that have seismic data from 50 years ago that is sitting on tapes. It's better than anything they could even get today. They bring it all together and now they're doing data analytics on this and they're finding new ways to really take advantage of that. So we're seeing that across the board and we're, Our goal is to try to move them along that journey. >> Nancy: Yes >> Stu: Nancy, could you give us a little insight as to who you're selling to? >> Yes Where is NetApp getting involved in kind of those strategic discussions? As I said, >> Great >> you know everybody's got a cloud strategy, but I said usually the external still drawing and it's something you need to revisit often so you know where is NetApp seat at that table? You've got a lot of partners here >> Nancy: Yes >> and how are things changing? >> Nancy: So, a lot of things are changing a lot of ways for Netapp and the companies that we're selling to and who we're selling to at those companies. We certainly see a lot of new buyers and it's interesting to see now that the decision making, the who's sitting at the decision table when they make that decision of what kind of infrastructure to purchase, is it getting larger and larger group and now we're really seeing the Dev teams, their internal Dev ops teams have a seat at that table who are and they're having significant influence on the infrastructure and operations teams on what kind of investments that companies should be making. Right, so, working with partners, going to market through the largest public hyper scalers and reaching these new buyers and new and existing accounts as well. So even if there is a traditional part of the data center, I guarantee you somewhere in every company there's a new Dev team working on new business models. And so we want to attend (mumbles) >> Lisa: Does the conversation Nancy, start at the business outcomes level? >> Nancy: Absolutely. >> And, and your perspective, how are you seeing some of the more technical folks in an organization participating in a business outcomes driven conversation where it's more about these are the things we need to do to, to compete to increase our revenue. What, how is that persona based conversation changing? So actually I have a story from a customer meeting earlier this week, right? And so we were talking with the customer about data fabric and what we can do and how we can deliver a seamless experience between public and private clouds. And we walked out of their room and the gentleman from the customer who's I walked in that room as a storage admin and I walked out as a data fabric architect. Right. >> Lisa: It's pretty good validation >> It's pretty good validation. It's happening right now like the personas, even personas that we've traditionally known are certainly changing. What do yo say? >> So that point we're seeing some of the attributes that service providers are offering. We're seeing enterprises at the same time trying to build those up scale. And it's really been amazing as we're seeing you, you spoke about speed is the new agility on here and it's really the agility to be kind of build those infrastructures quickly and take advantage of that at a business advantage level. And a lot of the most technical customers of ours are saying now they're kind of at a, they have a seat at the table to kind of inspire some of those business innovations. They, they see how they could make the company more efficient and all of a sudden they're getting a lot more attention at the C level. >> Stu: Alright. So a few years ago there was the wave of big data, you know, it was really what I summed it up. One of the key findings was it was that bit flip of saying, oh my gosh, I have so much data to, Oh yes, yes, I've got so much data and I can take advantage of it. What I want you to help connect us is when you talk about being data driven, NetApp at its core is you know, there's storage, there's infrastructure, there's software. How do I then get the insights and the value out of the data, the data that I've helped my customers get to? >> Nancy: So let me give you an example of what NetApp is doing around this very issue, right? So we have a very large install base like you talked about. We have a new product called the active IQ. And what it does is based on community wisdom pulled from 30,000 or more installed systems across our entire customer base. And what we do is we use AI ML to extract value and intelligent insights and then actionable plans for our customers. So even if a customer doesn't have 30,000 units installed, they can take advantage of all of that knowledge themselves. So we drink our own champagne and we apply the things that we learned, but we can also help customers do the same thing in their own business as an extract value from their own data. >> Lisa: I'm curious too, from a company as as history does NetApp, formerly network appliance, how is NetApp drinking our own champagne example? How does that influence customers perspective on NetApp's transformation and convince a customer to trust NetApp and go, "yes, this is a partner "that I want to work with "to help us be able "to just do point, "not just a mass, "a tonne of data "and the silo, "but extract insights that are "essential to try this, this change." >> Dale: So we actually have some breakout sessions here where NetApp IT is speaking to that a talking about how we have NetApp on NetApp. You know we've got the active IQ data coming in, so an all flash fas tier being teared down through east series to object storage to a giant data lake of active IQ doing analytics on that. And so that's a great reference for us. We're able to have them speak to our customers directly, eye to eye in our executive briefing center, and oftentimes that pushes them over the edge on that one. >> Nancy: Because we're living the dream and we're making our own mistakes along the way and so when we have folks from our NetApp's own IT department come speak with customers, it's very credible about we did this at work, we did this. It didn't work so much. Right? But we're in that same transformation journey as our customers as well. >> Well, the failure I always say is my, It's not a bad word. It's part of that journey. >> Nancy: Yes. Well, finishing up Nancy with you. Talk to us about the media customer example that really articulates the value that NetApp is delivering as an enabler of the data driven company. >> So one of my favorites these days as we work with a company called Children's Mercy Hospital, Kansas City, right? And they brought us new Ciox and he was really interested in transforming the IT experience for his clinicians. Right. These are the people that work with kids in the hospital, sick kids, they're stressed out families. And I love this story because it's very easy for me to imagine if my child was in the hospital, how stressed out I would be to have a clinician walk in fast, easy access, the latest data about my child, a happy clinician. That would be such an impact to me. And so to see what our customers are doing at children's mercy and they'll also multi cloud they've got their own private clouds are accelerating their VDI, they're working with public clouds all through NetApp product in the end to help those kids and to help maybe some moms on wherever you are, just a smidge less. >> Lisa: Are you helping them to use some of the emerging technologies, IoT AI to drive faster, better outcomes and decision making for these in these critical literally life and death situations? >> So the first project we're working on them as about accelerating their VDI. How does he get a virtual desktop to all his clinician? So whatever room that clinician is in, he has access. So she has access to the latest data about that child. Right. And to make the overall just a better experience so that the new ciox is very keen on just delivering a better experience, not better technology, but a better experience for his clinicians and for his patients. >> Nancy, Dale, thanks so much for stopping by on day one of insight. We appreciate your time. Got to give you some cubes stickers because you're doubling the alumni now. Real. Exactly. We want to thank you. I'm Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman for watching the cube. Again, we're live all day at NetApp Insight 2018. Stick around. Stu and I will be right back with our next guest.

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering VMworld 2018. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome to theCUBE. I'm Lisa Martin with Justin Warren on day one of VMworld 2018. This is the twentieth anniversary of VMware. Lots of momentum this morning kicking things off. Justin and I are happy to be joined by some folks from NetApp. We have Nancy Hart, the Head of Marketing for Cloud Infrastructure. >> Good afternoon. >> Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you Julie, it's so great to be here. And an alumni, Gabe Chapman. I love your Twitter handle @bacon_is_king. Senior Manager of NetApp HCI. Hey, Gabe. >> Hi, how are you doing? >> Good. Guys, lots of momentum. Pat Gelsinger was probably one of my favorite keynotes cause he's really energetic. He even went full-in with his faux tap this morning. I was impressed. >> Impressive. >> You guys have some news. >> Yes. >> Tell us about what's new with NetApp and VMware today. >> Fantastic, exciting times at NetApp these days. NetApp is really focused on becoming the data authority for hybrid cloud. Part of that is what we're excited to announce today here at VMworld, is a NetApp-verified architecture for VMware private cloud for HCI. What you heard today in Pat's keynote was a lot about connection on-premises private clouds with hyperscalers public clouds. That's what we're doing in our partnership with VMware here and this validated architecture for private clouds. Exciting news for us. In addition, we're also really be thrilled to be announcing new storage nodes for our NetApp HCI product and SolidFire product, as well. Lots going on today. >> Wow, that's really cool. >> Gabe, you've been in the field a lot. What are some of the things that you're hearing? Some of the signage around here is about VMware's making things possible, making momentum possible. What are some of the things that you're seeing in the field in terms of customer's momentum? Leveraging HCI from NetApp to drive new business models, new revenue streams. >> I think one of the things I see commonly is that the hyperconverge as a platform has been around for about six, seven years now. Customers are seeing that some of the first generational approaches have got them to a certain level in terms of addressing simplicity and kind of that turnkey infrastructure stack, but where they would like to go next is more cloud integrated, more scalability, more enterprise class or enterprise scale technology. Therefore, they're kind of looking at the NetApp HCI product and the architecture that we've brought to market, and seeing the potential to not only do things on-premise that they'd normally do in terms of a infrastructure platform but also move in to new services. How do we integrate with existing investments that they've had? How do we become connected into the hybrid cloud model with the hyperscalers themselves and really push towards a all-encompassing cloud infrastructure platform other than just a box. >> Yeah, one of the things I noticed in the keynote today that, I think, relates to that, and I'm interested to hear, Nancy and Gabe, a little bit more about what customers are doing here, because it seems that the idea of it must be all cloud or all on-site, that's gone away now. It's very much hybrid cloud world, multi cloud world, where customers have choice. Are you hearing that from customers? Clearly, there seems to be some demand here because we've seen the change in messaging. >> Absolutely, and I think what you're seeing is customers want the option to take advantage of all the resources. Regardless if those resources are on-premises or in public clouds, and that's what we're doing here at NetApp with our own HCI solution. As the market evolves under our feet, Gabe talked about those first generation vendors weren't quite enough, that our customers are choosing NetApp cause they want more then what they can get from those first generation vendors. What you really want to see is that convergence continues to march on and that there is more to collapse into this stack, particularly that connection up into the public cloud. Customers are definitely looking today, they're making buying decisions today based on that option. >> Right, and clearly, there's lots of customers who have substantial investment already in NetApp so being able to use what've you already got and extend it with a vendor that you're already familiar with and you know how it works. There's a lot of value there. >> We're a trusted vendor. NetApp is a trusted enterprise vendor with the reliability and customers can come to us with confidence and choose NetApp with confidence. >> We were with you guys at SAP just a couple months ago at the beginning of the summer and #datadriven was everywhere, I'm seeing it in Twitter. We often hear many things about data is power, data is currency, data is fuel. Data is all of those things if it can be harnessed and acted upon in real time. How does NetApp HCI, what are some of the differentiators? Obviously, we talked about the trusted partnership, but how does NetApp help customers actually live a data-driven life within their organization? >> I think a lot of times it starts with understanding where your data lives. How you manage it, manipulate it, and secure it. We have things like GPDR that comes (mumbles). All the sudden, everybody's scrambling to come up with a solution or a reference architecture or some way that integrates with it. I think, naturally, NetApp being the product technology company that it's been and it's lived and breathed data all its life. We understand our customer's unique requirements around governance, around security, around mobility, and we've built technologies that don't lock you into any one mode of consumption. If you bought a filer, if you bought an HCI system, if you bought an object store platform, the data fabric piece is the glue that binds and allows data mobility and portability across multiple platforms. Not only from the edge to the core, but also to the cloud and kind of gives you that larger, bigger picture. We believe that as we start to see this transition, especially edge computing, especially as we look at things like NVMe over fabrics and getting in to new levels and also services that we are delivering across the hyperscalers. A cohesive picture and story around where your data lives, how you manage it, and who can access it is empowering customers to make their transition into the multi cloud space. >> Right, clearly that transition, I think, is what people weren't really understanding three or four years ago. It was like enterprises aren't going to be there in one spot. You can't just turn it on in five seconds, these things take time. >> (mumbles) flipped, yeah. >> With our data fabric we're able to cover the entire NetApp portfolio from edge to core to cloud. As you say, enterprises and different departments in those enterprises will make their own transition and go down their own journey of digital transformation in their own time. NetApp can really be that trusted partner for all these enterprises. >> With so much choice comes, I think, inherently a lot of complexity. I thought they did a great job this morning in the keynote, Pat Gelsinger and team, of really talking about their announcements, what VMware has done in their history pretty clearly. I can imagine from a customer's perspective, if it's an enterprise organization who doesn't want to get Uber-ized, they probably don't know where to start. Talk to us about sort of the business-level conversations that NetApp has with not just your existing customers who know they can come to NetApp to trust you but also some of those maybe newer businesses or newer enterprise businesses to NetApp. How can they come to you and say help us understand? We probably have, what did they say this morning? The average customer's eight clouds. How do you help them to sort of digest that, embrace it, and be able to maximize it so that their data can be available as soon as they need it? >> What it is is data's at the heart of the enterprise and how people help customers change their world with data, but there has to be a direct business outcome for that. When enterprise customers learn to mine the value of their data they can really build new revenue streams, they can create new touchpoints with their own customers to drive their businesses. For example, one of our early NetApp HCI customers was down in Australia. A company called Consatel, a service provider down in Australia. They were really struggling to set up new businesses and new services to their own customer base. When the conversation, when they worked with NetApp what they were able to do was deploy new services three times faster over their last vendor. Think about what that did for their top line. If this company Consatel could deploy new services, new revenue opportunities three times faster. >> Blowing their competitors out of the water. >> Blowing their competitors out of the water. That's a business-level conversation. This is not a conversation about technology. Yes, under the covers, there's some amazing, fantastic technology, but it has to serve the business. Consatel has now been so successful with NetApp HCI that they now are expanding into brand new geo and geo regions and bringing new services to a whole new set of customers and a whole new customer base working with us. >> That's what I'm hearing in the conversations that I have with customers. I'm interested to hear from yourself and Gabe as to whether you're hearing this across the board. You've got one example here of customers who are concerned more with additional revenues. New revenue streams, new ways of making money top line and not so much about cost savings. That was something that was being, we were concentrating on that maybe three or four years ago. That seems to have been de-emphasized now and people are much more interested in seeking out new ways to use things. New sources of revenue and focusing on top line. Is that something that you're seeing across the board or is that only leading edge companies that are looking at that? >> We see it across the board, I think, with a lot of customers across many different verticals. For instance, Children's Mercy Hospital bought our NetApp HCI product for a virtual desktop implementation and they did so for a lot of reasons. One of them being the traditional TCO/ROI discussion. But also allows them to provide a platform that isn't just a silo of resources because of the unique aspects and differentiation that we have on our platform. We're able to go and do mixed workloads and do consolidation so they're realizing savings and gains across collapsing silos, bringing multiple applications on the same, common infrastructure. The same way they would've gone and swiped their credit card at Amazon. When you do that, you don't care if you're putting a SQL database, an Oracle or what not. They're going to give you the resource that you need. We want to mimic that locally on-prem for customers. Then, also have that integration with cloud services. If we're building a cloud service that runs on Amazon or Google, or if we're integrating with VMware as it runs on AWS or whatever, we want to be able to extend those services from local on-premises environments into the cloud and back based on that. I think that's really where the value is. There's no turnkey public cloud in a hybrid cloud integration piece. It's a journey and you have to analyze all the applications and the way you've done business. NetApp, having been working in the enterprise space as a trusted advisor for such a long time, we understand the customer's needs. We've been in the cloud space for a number of years already and we kind of understand that space. We're bridging the gap at the data level and helping to expand that more at the infrastructure level as well and as we branch into new services as time goes on. >> You've got that challenge of every customer being different but there's also trends that are common across the industry and NetApp being the size and having the history that it does, you've seen all of these things before and you know that yes, this is unique to you as a customer, but also we've seen this in other customers. This would be of value to you and you can bring that to those customers. >> Not only that, we have this product called Active IQ and it tends to be a service and support and monitoring application but, like you said, we have a very large customer base and using features and functionalities in AI we're able to use the data that we get from Active IQ as a community wisdom in effect and then make suggestions to those users as well. NetApp does have a very large install base. What can we learn from that install base, how can we help existing customers run their operations better with that community wisdom? >> We've always referred to it as actionable intelligence for your data. We've all played Tetris as a kid, it's playing Tetris with your data, Tetris with your workloads, and making sure that they all line up so that you get all four blocks break at the same time and get the high score. It's really taking and really, truly mining your infrastructure, mining your workloads and your information, and making sure that you're getting the most effective resource utilization that you possibly can. Across not just virtual machine workloads but also data workloads and understanding what you have on the floor versus what you need six months from now to one year from now. That Active IQ platform is really an integral part to really understanding customer's data resource utilization, etc. >> As someone who has played storage Tetris, any help that you can do is very, very welcome. >> I got to bring that back. That's the second reference I've heard to that in the last couple days. One of the things that Pat Gelsinger and team talked about this morning during the general session was superpowers and the need to enable enterprises to be able to harness their superpowers and maximize AI, machine learning, IoT, the edge. How was NetApp and VMware uniquely positioned to help your customers be able to take that actionable intelligence, Gabe, that you mentioned on that data to drive the new business models and revenue streams? >> I think our superpower would be, information is power, so that's our superpower is being data-driven and understanding how we take the customer's data, leverage it to its most effective use, and allocate it and protect it properly. There's a whole bunch of different areas around what we're doing there. Ours would be understanding data, understanding how customers want to use it, and what kind of information they want to extract from it. I'll have to come up with a fancy term for, maybe data thrivers is my superpower. That could be definitely one part of it. >> You could make a logo out of that. >> That sounds pretty good. >> The Thriver. >> The Thriver, I like it. >> We're data thrivers. >> I like it. >> I think so. >> NetApp has been a partner of VMware's for a very long time. You have a large ecosystem of partners, as well. What you guys announced today, talk to us about some of the benefits or really the opportunities that's going to give to NetApp's channel partners. >> There's a lot of opportunity here for our channel partners. As our customers take this journey, they're going to turn to their trusted advisors, their partners, to help them take that journey as well. What we've done here with what we announced with the VMware private cloud for HCI, this is a significant opportunity for our channel partners to work with their customers and take them down that path to be that data thriver. To harness that superpower. New opportunities for all. Customers need someone to help them show the way and channel partners are really the community to do that. >> For those channel partners who are keen to go and do this, how should they engage with you? How should they start talking to NetApp about helping their customers to go down this journey? >> Honestly, we're making the announcement this week. That's the first step is come by our booths. >> It's a thing, yeah. >> If they're here, obviously. We have a very large channel organization. We have outreach, we'll have training, we'll have, the path to hybrid clouds starts with turnKey private cloud and that's kind of what we've done here. We're working on that turnkey private cloud with our partner VMware and NetApp together to kind of facilitate that first step. Then we go out and work with our channel partner organizations to find the customers that want to go down that path. Then they can bring their additional add-on to it. There's a lot of opportunity to go out and really push and help customers make this transition between the two different worlds and obviously we can go to netapp.com and come and take a look. We have plenty of information there, too. >> Just as we wrap up here, I'm curious, Nancy, to get your perspective, from a cloud infrastructure perspective or vision, the announcements that VMware made today. Big news with AWS. Launched that last year. Talked about a lot of expansion going to apache. A lot of work in Australia. >> Yep. >> What does that as well as some other product enhancements they announced today, what does that mean to NetApp? >> I think for NetApp and for our customers, cause really let's stay focused on NetApp's customers, some of the announcements you saw Pat make today provides new options, new opportunities for NetApp's customers globally. As there's these new features, new functionalities to that turnkey solution for private cloud, what you saw is VMware expanding that relationship with AWS just gives new options and new opportunities. >> Hopefully, people can go and maybe by tomorrow get a data thriver pin or sticker. >> Going to have to run out to Kinko's real quick and make some stickers. >> Maybe print it on some bacon. >> Actually, I think we have pretzel necklaces in our booth to go for the beer crawl. >> Oh wow. What time is that? >> Soon, not soon enough. >> Nancy and Gabe, thanks so much for stopping by theCUBE and chatting with Justin and me. Very exciting to hear NetApp's continued transformation and what you're helping customers achieve. >> Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> We want to thank you for watching theCUBE. For Justin Warren, I'm Lisa Martin. We're at VMworld, day one, stick around we'll be right back. (electronic tones)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's The CUBE . Covering IBM Think 2018. Brought to you by IBM. >> Hello, and welcome to The CUBE . Here we are at IBM Think 2018. I'm John Furrier, your host. We are here for a feature one-on-one CUBE interview with Nancy Hensley, the Chief Digital Officer of the Analytics group. IBM has a new position rolling out across the company called the Chief Digital Offices. So there's a chief-Chief Digital Officer, and that's Bob Lord. But each business unit's taking digital seriously as a way to engage and provide services and value to customers and anyone who's interested. Nancy, great to see you. CUBE alumni. >> Thank you, thank you. Glad to be here. Always happy to be back. >> Thanks for stopping by. So, I'm really interested in this Chief Digital Officer role that you're in. >> Yeah. >> You know we love digital, you know we're progressive, we love to try new things. >> Nancy: Absolutely. >> IBM, big infrastructure on digital. What's your new role? Take a minute to explain what you're working on in this analytics group. So you're in this analytics division. >> Nancy: Yes. >> So you're in the business unit? Take a minute. >> I haven't left all of my love for data and analytics. I'm still here, but now what I'm doing is making these products much more consumable and accessible. The challenge we had, and I think a big change that's happening in the industry, is that best of breed isn't good enough anymore. You have to make these products much more accessible because the power shifting to that one digital consumer, who's going to search for some sort of capability >> John: Yeah. >> And wherever they find it is where they're going to start to engage, right? And that's where we have to be. >> Yeah. I mean, to me, remember the old days? CRM. Customer Relationship Management software. >> Yeah. >> I mean, right now, software is in a relationship, still. >> Nancy: Absolutely. >> So, talk about the relationship because digitally it's different. >> Nancy: It is. >> It's not a catalog for learning. >> Right. >> It's not waterfall, it's more agile, it's more personal. >> Right. >> But it can't be intrusive, because people don't want to be sold to, they're worried about their data. >> Nancy: Right. >> Re-targeting. >> Nancy: Yep. >> How are you guys changing the game? >> So, we used to develop products. Now we develop experiences. The product is the experience, and the experience is the product, and that starts from, how easy is it to find? When I search for a capability like text analytics or content analytics, do I find what I'm looking for? How easy is it to get my hands on it and try it? How easy is it to have that aha moment of 'oh, I get how this product can help me,' right? How easy is it to engage with my peers in a community? How easy it is to get support, right? All of that is part of the experience. And what we're doing now, is wrapping that all together around the product. >> Talk about specifically, some of the things you're working on, I'd like to get.. >> Sure. >> I know you were talking before we came on camera about some of the programs, but at the end of the day, people want to get the job done, right? >> Nancy: Right. >> They need, they have a job to do, a mission, and they want to feel like they got instant value. >> Nancy: M-hmm. >> Maybe kick the tires, do a little deep dive. >> Nancy: Yup. >> Jump around, not feel like they're, you know, getting in a headlock on the IBM dot com site. >> (laughing) Well, let's talk about one of the products that we started with, which was SPSS Statistics. So, do you know Statistics actually turns 50 this year? 50! That's amazing, right? So, Statistics is primarily students in academia. So the average profile of a Statistics buyer is normally under 25. How do you think those buyers want to buy? It's probably not through a face-to-face IBM sales relationship, right? So we started off with that product because it was the most B to C product that we had, and we knew that the buyer gave us some very clear signals about, I want to buy digitally, I want to be able to easily try it, download it, and subscription-based pricing, which is including support and a good community go-to. So, when we started off the digital transformation a year ago on Statistics, it was very difficult to find, it was very difficult to try. We didn't have a very good NPS score for support. And so we transformed the whole experience, and you literally can get on, it's easy to find, it comes up top of the search. You download it, you swipe your credit card. It's a very sleek experience and you are up and running in like, 15 minutes. >> You know, one of the thing's that's interesting, people just want a relationship with that experience. And as you guys rethink this, if you think about it, analytics, the younger buyers.. >> Nancy: Yeah! >> They don't actually even use email. They have mobile email accounts. >> Nancy: Right. >> They're on Snapchat, they're on Instagram, and they have multiple channels open, and so you have to be smarter about how to engage in the preferred method that the users want. How is that translated within IBM? Share some inside baseball about some of the conversations inside IBM as you guys try to make that happen. Because I know, certainly, that you're talking about it, you guys are doing stuff. What's the conversations like inside IBM? >> (laughing) I think we want to be able to do more to engage with the client in-product. Everything from making it easier for them to find support to even booking time with an expert. And the more we can push that into the product so they never have to leave that original experience, I think it's better for them, right? I mean, in the past IBM would have one site for developer works, right? One site that had support information, one site that had product information, one site that had, like, learn and discover assets and another site that you would try and buy. And that was just too much work for the consumer to try and get to that point where they were very comfortable and confident, they could find their peers, right? So consolidating that all, that is the big challenge now. Because we're, you know, we're not a young company So we have a lot of information that's digitized out there. >> And you have some older buyers, I mean, but that's the trade-off. I have this conversation all the time with folks, that new solutions aren't mutually exclusive to the old way. >> Nancy: Right. >> There are a lot of people that still use email >> Nancy: Yeah. >> As a preferred method. It's been the killer app for 30 years. >> Nancy: Absolutely. >> Okay, but now the new users, you've got to bolt on new programs, so how's that ... How are you guys thinking about that? Is there any technology decisions that you guys made? Jeannie mentioned you guys are using your own tools and technology, love her story. A.I. ... >> So, one of the cool things- >> Blockchain, data. >> Absolutely, absolutely. So, one of the cool things we're doing is using chat bots to optimize the time of our digital sales reps. So if you go on SPSS Statistics right now, you can have a conversation with a chat bot, and what it's done is, it's actually helped us optimize. So, when you actually talk to a really good rep that you want to get deeper in conversation on, you've already gotten a lot of your questions answered. We've improved their time, they optimized their time by 76%. Overall, what digital's done for us in a product like Statistics, is it's reduced the amount of time it's taken us to acquire new clients. So, for every 100 new clients that we acquire new, brand new to IBM, it's been reduced by 70%. So we can truly accelerate how many more clients we can onboard in digital than we ever could before. >> So here's a trick question for you. It's kind of a hard question, but it's kind of a trick question because it's hard to answer. At least I think it's hard, maybe you'll think it's easier. Inefficiencies always come in new technologies, but whenever you have new technologies, you can create new efficiencies. >> Nancy: M-hmm. >> What if, because you mentioned some great stats, you guys are shortening the cycle down to acquire new customers. >> Provide value, faster time to value. Have you seen any new blockers come in front of you or have you seen any new things that you guys have disrupted a way in terms of making it more efficient? Because there's always an opportunity to reduce the steps it takes to do something. >> Nancy: Right. >> Or make it easier to use and more simpler. >> Well, it is a huge mindset shift for us, because this is not how we've engaged with the client. So first, it's important for clients to understand that there are two routes to market with us now. One is through a face-to-face, traditional sales method, and some clients will continue to engage on that through many of our products. There's our partners. Actually, it's more than two. And now there's digital, and that's brand new, right? Truly digital self-service commerce, and with that we're doing more focus around how do we grow adoption around those products faster than we ever can before? So we're using new growth hacking techniques and that is, again, it is very disruptive to the mindset that we came from, but, you know, I always say, IBM, we continue to reinvent ourselves so we're reinventing a new experience. >> Well, I've got to just say growth hacking techniques has been a big debate in Silicon Valley. Gamification, growth hacks is kind of passé in terms of wording. There's nuance, but I want to share that with you. There were companies that did growth hacking at the expense of the users. >> Nancy: Right. >> But there's actually growth hacking that creates a good user experience >> Nancy: Absolutely. >> That's kind of being replaced with gamification and this is becoming a very critical part of digital. >> Nancy: Absolutely. >> 'Gamifiying' on behalf of user experience, >> Nancy: Yep. >> which Jeannie was saying that's the focus, is really the short cut. >> Nancy: Absolutely. >> So to me, the shortcut is, how do I get to what I want to find ... ? That's gamification. It's an algorithm, it's software. >> Right, right. And how do you amplify on what's working and what's not working? So we're literally running weekly experiments. We get the teams together, we have squads that get together it's everybody from design to development, and we just do a big drain dump of here's the things we should try. And then we just try and we start to double down where it's working, and we learn a lot from the things that aren't working, and not everything works in digital is what we're finding. >> The best thing about it is that you can always re-start and re-try because it's easy to work with. >> Right. >> So I want to talk about the role of community. IBM has always had a strong community mindset. >> Nancy: Absolutely. >> The ethos going back to Open Source days, it's been a leader in Linux, and continued to have an open source presence. We've been following the Hyper ledger project in the Linux foundation, I've been covering some of the IBM work there with Blockchain. But more and more open source and community. How do you guys take digital to communities? >> So, in the past, the digital experience wasn't really all-inclusive around the product, so you would have to go to a different place to connect with community. And now what we're doing is bringing that all into, we call it a hub-like experience in the marketplace so it's all there. Because part of your decision process is, I want to go connect with people like me, right? I want to connect with my peers. So we're making it easier to do that. So now that it's all interconnected in the marketplace, making it easier for people to find, because ... You know, what do you do when you buy something, right? You read reviews, you see how other people have used it. >> Check the ratings. >> Community's critical to that, right? Exactly. So we've connected all that too, including a support experience as well. All of that revolves around the product digitally. >> All right. I've got to ask the final question. I asked Janine Sneed who's the CDO for Hybrid Cloud the same question, what's on your to-do list? New job, congratulations. >> (laughing) Thank you! >> An important one, we think it's super critical. What's your priorities, what are you going to work on? What's the to-do list look like? What are some of the things you want to accomplish over the next year, be it putting stakes in the ground, new programs ... What's the priorities? Share some insight into what you're thinking. >> I would like get as much self-service capability across the products that we are determining to be digital, is probably my number one priority. But the number two is, to create a great onboarding experience, right? And that's different than selling. When you're selling, you're convincing somebody. When you're onboarding a client, you're kind of showing them the way, and so I want to create that great onboarding experience in every single product so that our products are easy to adapt, they're easy to use, and they, you know, that's how we grow. >> You've got to earn their trust in that onboarding process. >> Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, in the digital space it's everything. >> Yeah. >> It's everything. >> Digital trust. Nancy Hensley, Chief data ... Data ... >> (laughing) >> Chief Digital Officer. See, CDO means multiple things. Chief Data Officer, but you're Chief Digital Officer for the Analytics team, and CUBE alumni. sharing her thoughts on her new opportunity within IBM and also an important one, as digital is the fabric, digital's transformation is changing experiences and outcomes, of course creating value. I'm John Furrier here in the CUBE studios at IBM Think. We'll be back with more after this short break. (electronic music)

>> Narrator: From the SiliconANGLE Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now, here's your host, Stu Miniman. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman, and this is theCUBE's Boston area studio. Happy to welcome back to the program a guest we've had on a number of times but first time in the role, Nancy Pearson, now the CMO of Openlink. Nancy, thanks for joining us here in the office, and great to see you. >> Great to see you, Stu. >> Alright, so we've had you on in your previous role at a number of big events. Tell us, what led you to Openlink? >> Well, I was really attracted to Openlink because of the position that they hold in the market in terms of being the leader of trading treasury and risk management across multiple industries. And I also took a look at their clients, and they have a pretty impressive client roster, companies and businesses that are really instrumental to the industry, and I wanted to have an impact in that kind of environment, so that's why I looked at Openlink. >> Yeah, Nancy, your whole career, you've been looking at, there's so much change happening in the industry. Digital is more than just a buzzword. What are you seeing today in your clients here at Openlink? >> Yeah, what I see, and going from a large enterprise environment where people jumped on the digital bandwagon fairly early, in many other industries, it's been a little bit of a struggle to understand, what does that really mean for our business? And one of the first things I noticed about coming to Openlink is they really weren't on the digital network. They were doing events, very heavily into email, et cetera, that type of marketing, but it was really important to get them on the digital platform. So that's digital advertising, and to really think about a digital first data driven campaign type approach for demand generation as well. >> And what does digital mean for your customers? >> Well it's really important to them as well. They're modernizing their business. Digital is disrupting their business. So on the side of their health, they have to actually embrace it and understand, what does that mean for my business? What do I need to put in place to be more visible? To understand the new game of engaging the clients in a digital format? I mean, 70% of clients and prospects actually do the investigatory work to actually understand which vendors they're going to be partnering with before they ever actually reach out to that client. So it's really important that you have a very strong website, and that was one of the first things that we started with at Openlink. >> What kind of things do you change to the website to make it more modern, more digital? >> Well we completely redesigned the website from the bottom up. So a new content management system, a totally new designed website with engagement, everything from thought leadership down to rethinking how we actually presented our products, as well as adding personalization. So you're able to really find what you want by your role, by industry, and by even deeper subject matter expertise and areas of focus. >> What's the mindset of your customers? I think a couple years it ago, it was like, "Oh my gosh, I'm going to get Netflixed. "I'm going to get disrupted by digital." Is this now a weapon or an opportunity for them, or is it still a mix? >> No, it's definitely an opportunity, because digital levels the playing field for companies. So, it doesn't matter the size of the business, the complexity of the business. The winner is the person that at the end of the day can engage clients through their digital website, and also through Google, through LinkedIn, through all the different mechanisms today where you can engage with personalization. You can see and understand what your clients' needs are, and whoever serves that best is going to be the winner at the end of the day, which is why I say digital really helps create a level playing field. But you have to know how to use the tools. >> Love to hear more about what are your customers doing? How's Openlink helped them? >> So for example, one of the big questions right up front is usually, "How important is digital and social media?" And a lot of large enterprise clients struggle with that. The ones that have learned to use it as a tool really well and targeted can extend their reach triple-fold out in the market, and really get their story out in a way they couldn't previously. So digital and social media is one thing related to awareness and your share voice in the market. But your website, how you design that website through a client journey is really what makes all the difference. It turns opportunity into demand and leads and helps clients take action along the way. So a combination of being on the digital network, having a very strong website, and then modernizing the rest of your marketing tools for personalization. >> Any examples you can give kind of anonymized from your clients? I think most people know the big consumer brand, retail, how they interact. I know I travel a lot and see how the airlines are super responsive, but you've got some pretty specific industries. >> It's true, and we do some very highly targeted marketing. So, for example, knowing where our clients go to get their information. Knowing how to mirror that type of content through even third-party and how we build content on our own website to attract them and have them coming back for more is really the intricacies of how you actually build engagement and how you convert that engagement to leads, annuity. And then client references, story telling. So we really turned our content from pushing out content to telling stories. You'll see that everywhere. You'll see a lot of the very sophisticated players using storytelling. A lot of commercials today are storytelling mode, but we can do that within business, and it's the most powerful marketing you can create. >> Yeah, we in theCUBE, we always talk about extracting the signal from the noise, and you've got to be more personalized. You've got to tell those stories. Otherwise it just becomes noise, and it's tough for people to find something that captures them, and that they're going to want to glom on to. >> And learn from, frankly. >> That's great. Nancy, CMO role, have to imagine it's gone through a lot of changes recently. What are you seeing? Is there various types of roles as CMO? What are you seeing as some of the major changes there? >> I think the CMO role's changed a lot in the last five to seven years. And in particular, it's no longer a push mechanism of your message out into the market. It's establishing that relationship with clients, doing it through your website, doing it where they go on digital and social media. And the message is really important. What is your specific differentiation, and how does that help clients solve their business problems? So for Openlink, we did an effort right up front that really talked about understanding the purpose that we have within our client environments, defining three core messages, that we help clients establish and create a single source of the truth. For risk, and in their business for trading treasury and risk. We also help them solve complex business problems, and we bring expertise that they really can't get otherwise, because Openlink is a very unique solution. It's the leader. A platform that's really extensible across their enterprise for medium-sized businesses to large-sized businesses. So getting that message out and being very specific about it with detail is an important part of getting the value to your clients. >> There's a tough dynamic of, we have the data, but how do I make sure I'm securing that data? The governance risk. A lot of shows this year, GDPR's been a topic that's been popping to make sure that if I've got that data, I need to make sure, oh, if a customer comes to me I can make sure that that's being used in the right ways, not being used into. How's the changing landscape affecting your customers? >> Well, I think data is the new commodity, right. A new economy is being built from data and how you utilize it. So for Openlink, we have a platform that for, whether it's energy companies, airlines, these large enterprises that are data-rich, data-intensive environments, we have a huge opportunity to help them get more value from their data, and creating a single view of that data across the silos of their business gives them the visibility and insight to be able to innovate. And innovation is the name of the game for our clients. Things like getting into cloud, monetizing data and creating new services for different revenue streams. There's a tremendous amount of opportunity, and that's really in the sweet spot of this business. >> Openlink cloud is a new announcement that you had out. >> Nancy: It is. >> How does that impact how you reach your customers, how you market to your customers? >> Well, first of all, we've had a tremendous amount of uptake from the cork lines that we have to move to cloud, and so it's created a lot of opportunity for us. Everyone is needing to modernize and reduce their reliance on cost related to infrastructure, and cloud is in innovation platform. So in our business, this is our innovation platform, and they can build on top of that once they move to that type of an environment and realize some of those cost benefits. The future is innovation as it relates to our Openlink cloud, and we're really excited and really positive about the interest from our clients. And everyone needs to innovate today. Your point up front about disruption, you're either being disrupted or you're disrupting your industry. Those are the choices you have to make today. >> Yeah, right. Do you want to set the menu or be on the menu? (laughter) >> Nancy: Exactly. >> Nancy, you talked about the website. What other changes have you been making to Openlink so far? And love to hear what's on your plate for the next six to 12 months. >> Well, right up front the objective was to make marketing a strategic partner to the CEO and to the leadership. And so we're continuing on that journey. So we rebranded the business and really modernized our logo; as I mentioned, grounded back our message around differentiators from a client perspective, and really being in touch with that; created a foundational website that's best of breed and leading edge; and now what I want to do going into 2018 is really just build on top of that. So how do we create demand? How do we provide more thought leadership and build content in a way that's meaningful to the industry and to our clients to help them increase their own proficiency in the spaces that we serve? And be able to help make them successful as well. >> All right, talk about leveling the playing field, whether you're a hundred year old company, a 25 year old company or a six month old company, what does it mean in today's market? >> It means that you can compete. It means that you can have the same voice, and you don't have to have the same budget. You don't have to have the same sized business. But if you know how to use the tools today, and you know how to create incredible content, you can have an equal voice. >> Nancy Pearson, CMO of Openlink. Great to catch up with you. Thanks so much for sharing with us all the updates. We look forward to tracking the progress of you and Openlink. Thanks so much for watching. I'm Stu Miniman. You're watching theCUBE. (electronic music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting Cuban cloud brought to you by silicon angle, everybody to Cuban cloud. My name is Dave Volonte, and I'll be here throughout the day with my co host, John Ferrier, who was quarantined in an undisclosed location in California. He's all good. Don't worry. Just precautionary. John, how are you doing? >>Hey, great to see you. John. Quarantine. My youngest daughter had covitz, so contact tracing. I was negative in quarantine at a friend's location. All good. >>Well, we wish you the best. Yeah, well, right. I mean, you know what's it like, John? I mean, you're away from your family. Your basically shut in, right? I mean, you go out for a walk, but you're really not in any contact with anybody. >>Correct? Yeah. I mean, basically just isolation, Um, pretty much what everyone's been kind of living on, kind of suffering through, but hopefully the vaccines are being distributed. You know, one of the things we talked about it reinvent the Amazon's cloud conference. Was the vaccine on, but just the whole workflow around that it's gonna get better. It's kind of really sucky. Here in the California area, they haven't done a good job, a lot of criticism around, how that's rolling out. And, you know, Amazon is now offering to help now that there's a new regime in the U. S. Government S o. You know, something to talk about, But certainly this has been a terrible time for Cove it and everyone in the deaths involved. But it's it's essentially pulled back the covers, if you will, on technology and you're seeing everything. Society. In fact, um, well, that's big tech MIT disinformation campaigns. All these vulnerabilities and cyber, um, accelerated digital transformation. We'll talk about a lot today, but yeah, it's totally changed the world. And I think we're in a new generation. I think this is a real inflection point, Dave. You know, modern society and the geo political impact of this is significant. You know, one of the benefits of being quarantined you'd be hanging out on these clubhouse APS, uh, late at night, listening to experts talk about what's going on, and it's interesting what's happening with with things like water and, you know, the island of Taiwan and China and U. S. Sovereignty, data, sovereignty, misinformation. So much going on to talk about. And, uh, meanwhile, companies like Mark injuries in BC firm starting a media company. What's going on? Hell freezing over. So >>we're gonna be talking about a lot of that stuff today. I mean, Cuba on cloud. It's our very first virtual editorial event we're trying to do is bring together our community. It's a it's an open forum and we're we're running the day on our 3 65 software platform. So we got a great lineup. We got CEO Seo's data Practitioners. We got a hard core technologies coming in, cloud experts, investors. We got some analysts coming in and we're creating this day long Siri's. And we've got a number of sessions that we've developed and we're gonna unpack. The future of Cloud computing in the coming decade is, John said, we're gonna talk about some of the public policy new administration. What does that mean for tech and for big tech in General? John, what can you add to that? >>Well, I think one of the things that we talked about Cove in this personal impact to me but other people as well. One of the things that people are craving right now is information factual information, truth texture that we call it. But hear this event for us, Davis, our first inaugural editorial event. Robbo, Kristen, Nicole, the entire Cube team Silicon angle, really trying to put together Morva cadence we're gonna doom or of these events where we can put out feature the best people in our community that have great fresh voices. You know, we do interview the big names Andy Jassy, Michael Dell, the billionaires with people making things happen. But it's often the people under there that are the rial newsmakers amid savory, for instance, that Google one of the most impressive technical people, he's gotta talk. He's gonna present democratization of software development in many Mawr riel people making things happen. And I think there's a communal element. We're going to do more of these. Obviously, we have, uh, no events to go to with the Cube. So we have the cube virtual software that we have been building and over years and now perfecting and we're gonna introduce that we're gonna put it to work, their dog footing it. We're gonna put that software toe work. We're gonna do a lot mawr virtual events like this Cuban cloud Cuban startup Cuban raising money. Cuban healthcare, Cuban venture capital. Always think we could do anything. Question is, what's the right story? What's the most important stories? Who's telling it and increase the aperture of the lens of the industry that we have and and expose that and fastest possible. That's what this software, you'll see more of it. So it's super exciting. We're gonna add new features like pulling people up on stage, Um, kind of bring on the clubhouse vibe and more of a community interaction with people to meet each other, and we'll roll those out. But the goal here is to just showcase it's cloud story in a way from people that are living it and providing value. So enjoy the day is gonna be chock full of presentations. We're gonna have moderated chat in these sessions, so it's an all day event so people can come in, drop out, and also that's everything's on demand immediately after the time slot. But you >>want to >>participate, come into the time slot into the cube room or breakout session. Whatever you wanna call it, it's a cube room, and the people in there chatting and having a watch party. So >>when you're in that home page when you're watching, there's a hero video there. Beneath that, there's a calendar, and you'll see that red line is that red horizontal line of vertical line is rather, it's a linear clock that will show you where we are in the day. If you click on any one of those sessions that will take you into the chat, we'll take you through those in a moment and share with you some of the guests that we have upcoming and and take you through the day what I wanted to do. John is trying to set the stage for the conversations that folks are gonna here today. And to do that, I wanna ask the guys to bring up a graphic. And I want to talk to you, John, about the progression of cloud over time and maybe go back to the beginning and review the evolution of cloud and then really talk a little bit about where we think it Z headed. So, guys, if you bring up that graphic when a W S announced s three, it was March of 2000 and six. And as you recall, John you know, nobody really. In the vendor and user community. They didn't really pay too much attention to that. And then later that year, in August, it announced E C two people really started. They started to think about a new model of computing, but they were largely, you know, chicken tires. And it was kind of bleeding edge developers that really leaned in. Um what? What were you thinking at the time? When when you saw, uh, s three e c to this retail company coming into the tech world? >>I mean, I thought it was totally crap. I'm like, this is terrible. But then at that time, I was thinking working on I was in between kind of start ups and I didn't have a lot of seed funding. And then I realized the C two was freaking awesome. But I'm like, Holy shit, this is really great because I don't need to pay a lot of cash, the Provisional Data center, or get a server. Or, you know, at that time, state of the art startup move was to buy a super micro box or some sort of power server. Um, it was well past the whole proprietary thing. But you have to assemble probably anyone with 5 to 8 grand box and go in, and we'll put a couple ghetto rack, which is basically, uh, you know, you put it into some coasting location. It's like with everybody else in the tech ghetto of hosting, still paying monthly fees and then maintaining it and provisioning that's just to get started. And then Amazon was just really easy. And then from there you just It was just awesome. I just knew Amazon would be great. They had a lot of things that they had to fix. You know, custom domains and user interface Council got better and better, but it was awesome. >>Well, what we really saw the cloud take hold from my perspective anyway, was the financial crisis in, you know, 709 It put cloud on the radar of a number of CFOs and, of course, shadow I T departments. They wanted to get stuff done and and take I t in in in, ah, pecs, bite sized chunks. So it really was. There's cloud awakening and we came out of that financial crisis, and this we're now in this 10 year plus boom um, you know, notwithstanding obviously the economic crisis with cove it. But much of it was powered by the cloud in the decade. I would say it was really about I t transformation. And it kind of ironic, if you will, because the pandemic it hits at the beginning of this decade, >>and it >>creates this mandate to go digital. So you've you've said a lot. John has pulled forward. It's accelerated this industry transformation. Everybody talks about that, but and we've highlighted it here in this graphic. It probably would have taken several more years to mature. But overnight you had this forced march to digital. And if you weren't a digital business, you were kind of out of business. And and so it's sort of here to stay. How do you see >>You >>know what this evolution and what we can expect in the coming decades? E think it's safe to say the last 10 years defined by you know, I t transformation. That's not gonna be the same in the coming years. How do you see it? >>It's interesting. I think the big tech companies are on, but I think this past election, the United States shows um, the power that technology has. And if you look at some of the main trends in the enterprise specifically around what clouds accelerating, I call the second wave of innovations coming where, um, it's different. It's not what people expect. Its edge edge computing, for instance, has talked about a lot. But industrial i o t. Is really where we've had a lot of problems lately in terms of hacks and malware and just just overall vulnerabilities, whether it's supply chain vulnerabilities, toe actual disinformation, you know, you know, vulnerabilities inside these networks s I think this network effects, it's gonna be a huge thing. I think the impact that tech will have on society and global society geopolitical things gonna be also another one. Um, I think the modern application development of how applications were written with data, you know, we always been saying this day from the beginning of the Cube data is his integral part of the development process. And I think more than ever, when you think about cloud and edge and this distributed computing paradigm, that cloud is now going next level with is the software and how it's written will be different. You gotta handle things like, where's the compute component? Is it gonna be at the edge with all the server chips, innovations that Amazon apple intel of doing, you're gonna have compute right at the edge, industrial and kind of human edge. How does that work? What's Leighton see to that? It's it really is an edge game. So to me, software has to be written holistically in a system's impact on the way. Now that's not necessarily nude in the computer science and in the tech field, it's just gonna be deployed differently. So that's a complete rewrite, in my opinion of the software applications. Which is why you're seeing Amazon Google VM Ware really pushing Cooper Netease and these service messes in the micro Services because super critical of this technology become smarter, automated, autonomous. And that's completely different paradigm in the old full stack developer, you know, kind of model. You know, the full stack developer, his ancient. There's no such thing as a full stack developer anymore, in my opinion, because it's a half a stack because the cloud takes up the other half. But no one wants to be called the half stack developer because it doesn't sound as good as Full Stack, but really Cloud has eliminated the technology complexity of what a full stack developer used to dio. Now you can manage it and do things with it, so you know, there's some work to done, but the heavy lifting but taking care of it's the top of the stack that I think is gonna be a really critical component. >>Yeah, and that that sort of automation and machine intelligence layer is really at the top of the stack. This this thing becomes ubiquitous, and we now start to build businesses and new processes on top of it. I wanna I wanna take a look at the Big Three and guys, Can we bring up the other The next graphic, which is an estimate of what the revenue looks like for the for the Big three. And John, this is I asked and past spend for the Big Three Cloud players. And it's It's an estimate that we're gonna update after earning seasons, and I wanna point a couple things out here. First is if you look at the combined revenue production of the Big Three last year, it's almost 80 billion in infrastructure spend. I mean, think about that. That Z was that incremental spend? No. It really has caused a lot of consolidation in the on Prem data center business for guys like Dell. And, you know, um, see, now, part of the LHP split up IBM Oracle. I mean, it's etcetera. They've all felt this sea change, and they had to respond to it. I think the second thing is you can see on this data. Um, it's true that azure and G C P they seem to be growing faster than a W s. We don't know the exact numbers >>because >>A W S is the only company that really provides a clean view of i s and pass. Whereas Microsoft and Google, they kind of hide the ball in their numbers. I mean, I don't blame them because they're behind, but they do leave breadcrumbs and clues about growth rates and so forth. And so we have other means of estimating, but it's it's undeniable that azure is catching up. I mean, it's still quite distance the third thing, and before I want to get your input here, John is this is nuanced. But despite the fact that Azure and Google the growing faster than a W s. You can see those growth rates. A W s I'll call this out is the only company by our estimates that grew its business sequentially last quarter. Now, in and of itself, that's not significant. But what is significant is because AWS is so large there $45 billion last year, even if the slower growth rates it's able to grow mawr and absolute terms than its competitors, who are basically flat to down sequentially by our estimates. Eso So that's something that I think is important to point out. Everybody focuses on the growth rates, but it's you gotta look at also the absolute dollars and, well, nonetheless, Microsoft in particular, they're they're closing the gap steadily, and and we should talk more about the competitive dynamics. But I'd love to get your take on on all this, John. >>Well, I mean, the clouds are gonna win right now. Big time with the one the political climate is gonna be favoring Big check. But more importantly, with just talking about covert impact and celebrating the digital transformation is gonna create a massive rising tide. It's already happening. It's happening it's happening. And again, this shift in programming, uh, models are gonna really kinda accelerating, create new great growth. So there's no doubt in my mind of all three you're gonna win big, uh, in the future, they're just different, You know, the way they're going to market position themselves, they have to be. Google has to be a little bit different than Amazon because they're smaller and they also have different capabilities, then trying to catch up. So if you're Google or Microsoft, you have to have a competitive strategy to decide. How do I wanna ride the tide If you will put the rising tide? Well, if I'm Amazon, I mean, if I'm Microsoft and Google, I'm not going to try to go frontal and try to copy Amazon because Amazon is just pounding lead of features and scale and they're different. They were, I would say, take advantage of the first mover of pure public cloud. They really awesome. It passed and I, as they've integrated in Gardner, now reports and integrated I as and passed components. So Gardner finally got their act together and said, Hey, this is really one thing. SAS is completely different animal now Microsoft Super Smart because they I think they played the right card. They have a huge installed base converted to keep office 3 65 and move sequel server and all their core jewels into the cloud as fast as possible, clarified while filling in the gaps on the product side to be cloud. So you know, as you're doing trends job, they're just it's just pedal as fast as you can. But Microsoft is really in. The strategy is just go faster trying. Keep pedaling fast, get the features, feature velocity and try to make it high quality. Google is a little bit different. They have a little power base in terms of their network of strong, and they have a lot of other big data capabilities, so they have to use those to their advantage. So there is. There is there is competitive strategy game application happening with these companies. It's not like apples, the apples, In my opinion, it never has been, and I think that's funny that people talk about it that way. >>Well, you're bringing up some great points. I want guys bring up the next graphic because a lot of things that John just said are really relevant here. And what we're showing is that's a survey. Data from E. T. R R Data partners, like 1400 plus CEOs and I T buyers and on the vertical axis is this thing called Net score, which is a measure of spending momentum. And the horizontal axis is is what's called market share. It's a measure of the pervasiveness or, you know, number of mentions in the data set. There's a couple of key points I wanna I wanna pick up on relative to what John just said. So you see A W S and Microsoft? They stand alone. I mean, they're the hyper scale er's. They're far ahead of the pack and frankly, they have fall down, toe, lose their lead. They spend a lot on Capex. They got the flywheel effects going. They got both spending velocity and large market shares, and so, but they're taking a different approach. John, you're right there living off of their SAS, the state, their software state, Andi, they're they're building that in to their cloud. So they got their sort of a captive base of Microsoft customers. So they've got that advantage. They also as we'll hear from from Microsoft today. They they're building mawr abstraction layers. Andy Jassy has said We don't wanna be in that abstraction layer business. We wanna have access to those, you know, fine grain primitives and eso at an AP level. So so we can move fast with the market. But but But so those air sort of different philosophies, John? >>Yeah. I mean, you know, people who know me know that I love Amazon. I think their product is superior at many levels on in its way that that has advantages again. They have a great sass and ecosystem. They don't really have their own SAS play, although they're trying to add some stuff on. I've been kind of critical of Microsoft in the past, but one thing I'm not critical of Microsoft, and people can get this wrong in the marketplace. Actually, in the journalism world and also in just some other analysts, Microsoft has always had large scale eso to say that Microsoft never had scale on that Amazon owned the monopoly on our franchise on scales wrong. Microsoft had scale from day one. Their business was always large scale global. They've always had infrastructure with MSN and their search and the distributive how they distribute browsers and multiple countries. Remember they had the lock on the operating system and the browser for until the government stepped in in 1997. And since 1997 Microsoft never ever not invested in infrastructure and scale. So that whole premise that they don't compete well there is wrong. And I think that chart demonstrates that there, in there in the hyper scale leadership category, hands down the question that I have. Is that there not as good and making that scale integrate in because they have that legacy cards. This is the classic innovator's dilemma. Clay Christensen, right? So I think they're doing a good job. I think their strategy sound. They're moving as fast as they can. But then you know they're not gonna come out and say We don't have the best cloud. Um, that's not a marketing strategy. Have to kind of hide in this and get better and then double down on where they're winning, which is. Clients are converting from their legacy at the speed of Microsoft, and they have a huge client base, So that's why they're stopping so high That's why they're so good. >>Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna give you a little preview. I talked to gear up your f Who's gonna come on today and you'll see I I asked him because the criticism of Microsoft is they're, you know, they're just good enough. And so I asked him, Are you better than good enough? You know, those are fighting words if you're inside of Microsoft, but so you'll you'll have to wait to see his answer. Now, if you guys, if you could bring that that graphic back up I wanted to get into the hybrid zone. You know where the field is. Always got >>some questions coming in on chat, Dave. So we'll get to those >>great Awesome. So just just real quick Here you see this hybrid zone, this the field is bunched up, and the other companies who have a large on Prem presence and have been forced to initiate some kind of coherent cloud strategy included. There is Michael Michael, multi Cloud, and Google's there, too, because they're far behind and they got to take a different approach than a W s. But as you can see, so there's some real progress here. VM ware cloud on AWS stands out, as does red hat open shift. You got VM Ware Cloud, which is a VCF Cloud Foundation, even Dell's cloud. And you'd expect HP with Green Lake to be picking up momentum in the future quarters. And you've got IBM and Oracle, which there you go with the innovator's dilemma. But there, at least in the cloud game, and we can talk about that. But so, John, you know, to your point, you've gotta have different strategies. You're you're not going to take out the big too. So you gotta play, connect your print your on Prem to your cloud, your hybrid multi cloud and try to create new opportunities and new value there. >>Yeah, I mean, I think we'll get to the question, but just that point. I think this Zeri Chen's come on the Cube many times. We're trying to get him to come on lunch today with Features startup, but he's always said on the Q B is a V C at Greylock great firm. Jerry's Cloud genius. He's been there, but he made a point many, many years ago. It's not a winner. Take all the winner. Take most, and the Big Three maybe put four or five in there. We'll take most of the markets here. But I think one of the things that people are missing and aren't talking about Dave is that there's going to be a second tier cloud, large scale model. I don't want to say tear to cloud. It's coming to sound like a sub sub cloud, but a new category of cloud on cloud, right? So meaning if you get a snowflake, did I think this is a tale? Sign to what's coming. VM Ware Cloud is a native has had huge success, mainly because Amazon is essentially enabling them to be successful. So I think is going to be a wave of a more of a channel model of indirect cloud build out where companies like the Cube, potentially for media or others, will build clouds on top of the cloud. So if Google, Microsoft and Amazon, whoever is the first one to really enable that okay, we'll do extremely well because that means you can compete with their scale and create differentiation on top. So what snowflake did is all on Amazon now. They kind of should go to azure because it's, you know, politically correct that have multiple clouds and distribution and business model shifts. But to get that kind of performance they just wrote on Amazon. So there's nothing wrong with that. Because you're getting paid is variable. It's cap ex op X nice categorization. So I think that's the way that we're watching. I think it's super valuable, I think will create some surprises in terms of who might come out of the woodwork on be a leader in a category. Well, >>your timing is perfect, John and we do have some questions in the chat. But before we get to that, I want to bring in Sargi Joe Hall, who's a contributor to to our community. Sargi. Can you hear us? All right, so we got, uh, while >>bringing in Sarpy. Let's go down from the questions. So the first question, Um, we'll still we'll get the student second. The first question. But Ronald ask, Can a vendor in 2021 exist without a hybrid cloud story? Well, story and capabilities. Yes, they could live with. They have to have a story. >>Well, And if they don't own a public cloud? No. No, they absolutely cannot. Uh hey, Sergey. How you doing, man? Good to see you. So, folks, let me let me bring in Sergeant Kohala. He's a He's a cloud architect. He's a practitioner, He's worked in as a technologist. And there's a frequent guest on on the Cube. Good to see you, my friend. Thanks for taking the time with us. >>And good to see you guys to >>us. So we were kind of riffing on the competitive landscape we got. We got so much to talk about this, like, it's a number of questions coming in. Um, but Sargi we wanna talk about you know, what's happening here in Cloud Land? Let's get right into it. I mean, what do you guys see? I mean, we got yesterday. New regime, new inaug inauguration. Do you do you expect public policy? You'll start with you Sargi to have What kind of effect do you think public policy will have on, you know, cloud generally specifically, the big tech companies, the tech lash. Is it gonna be more of the same? Or do you see a big difference coming? >>I think that there will be some changing narrative. I believe on that. is mainly, um, from the regulators side. A lot has happened in one month, right? So people, I think are losing faith in high tech in a certain way. I mean, it doesn't, uh, e think it matters with camp. You belong to left or right kind of thing. Right? But parlor getting booted out from Italy s. I think that was huge. Um, like, how do you know that if a cloud provider will not boot you out? Um, like, what is that line where you draw the line? What are the rules? I think that discussion has to take place. Another thing which has happened in the last 23 months is is the solar winds hack, right? So not us not sort acknowledging that I was Russia and then wish you watching it now, new administration might have a different sort of Boston on that. I think that's huge. I think public public private partnership in security arena will emerge this year. We have to address that. Yeah, I think it's not changing. Uh, >>economics economy >>will change gradually. You know, we're coming out off pandemic. The money is still cheap on debt will not be cheap. for long. I think m and a activity really will pick up. So those are my sort of high level, Uh, >>thank you. I wanna come back to them. And because there's a question that chat about him in a But, John, how do you see it? Do you think Amazon and Google on a slippery slope booting parlor off? I mean, how do they adjudicate between? Well, what's happening in parlor? Uh, anything could happen on clubhouse. Who knows? I mean, can you use a I to find that stuff? >>Well, that's I mean, the Amazons, right? Hiding right there bunkered in right now from that bad, bad situation. Because again, like people we said Amazon, these all three cloud players win in the current environment. Okay, Who wins with the U. S. With the way we are China, Russia, cloud players. Okay, let's face it, that's the reality. So if I wanted to reset the world stage, you know what better way than the, you know, change over the United States economy, put people out of work, make people scared, and then reset the entire global landscape and control all with cash? That's, you know, conspiracy theory. >>So you see the riches, you see the riches, get the rich, get richer. >>Yeah, well, that's well, that's that. That's kind of what's happening, right? So if you start getting into this idea that you can't actually have an app on site because the reason now I'm not gonna I don't know the particular parlor, but apparently there was a reason. But this is dangerous, right? So what? What that's gonna do is and whether it's right or wrong or not, whether political opinion is it means that they were essentially taken offline by people that weren't voted for that. Weren't that when people didn't vote for So that's not a democracy, right? So that's that's a different kind of regime. What it's also going to do is you also have this groundswell of decentralized thinking, right. So you have a whole wave of crypto and decentralized, um, cyber punks out there who want to decentralize it. So all of this stuff in January has created a huge counterculture, and I had predicted this so many times in the Cube. David counterculture is coming and and you already have this kind of counterculture between centralized and decentralized thinking and so I think the Amazon's move is dangerous at a fundamental level. Because if you can't get it, if you can't get buy domain names and you're completely blackballed by by organized players, that's a Mafia, in my opinion. So, uh, and that and it's also fuels the decentralized move because people say, Hey, if that could be done to them, it could be done to me. Just the fact that it could be done will promote a swing in the other direction. I >>mean, independent of of, you know, again, somebody said your political views. I mean Parlor would say, Hey, we're trying to clean this stuff up now. Maybe they didn't do it fast enough, but you think about how new parlor is. You think about the early days of Twitter and Facebook, so they were sort of at a disadvantage. Trying to >>have it was it was partly was what it was. It was a right wing stand up job of standing up something quick. Their security was terrible. If you look at me and Cory Quinn on be great to have him, and he did a great analysis on this, because if you look the lawsuit was just terrible. Security was just a half, asshole. >>Well, and the experience was horrible. I mean, it's not It was not a great app, but But, like you said, it was a quick stew. Hand up, you know, for an agenda. But nonetheless, you know, to start, get to your point earlier. It's like, you know, Are they gonna, you know, shut me down? If I say something that's, you know, out of line, or how do I control that? >>Yeah, I remember, like, 2019, we involved closing sort of remarks. I was there. I was saying that these companies are gonna be too big to fail. And also, they're too big for other nations to do business with. In a way, I think MNCs are running the show worldwide. They're running the government's. They are way. Have seen the proof of that in us this year. Late last year and this year, um, Twitter last night blocked Chinese Ambassador E in us. Um, from there, you know, platform last night and I was like, What? What's going on? So, like, we used to we used to say, like the Chinese company, tech companies are in bed with the Chinese government. Right. Remember that? And now and now, Actually, I think Chinese people can say the same thing about us companies. Uh, it's not a good thing. >>Well, let's >>get some question. >>Let's get some questions from the chat. Yeah. Thank you. One is on M and a subject you mentioned them in a Who do you see is possible emanate targets. I mean, I could throw a couple out there. Um, you know, some of the cdn players, maybe aka my You know, I like I like Hashi Corp. I think they're doing some really interesting things. What do you see? >>Nothing. Hashi Corp. And anybody who's doing things in the periphery is a candidate for many by the big guys, you know, by the hyper scholars and number two tier two or five hyper scholars. Right. Uh, that's why sales forces of the world and stuff like that. Um, some some companies, which I thought there will be a target, Sort of. I mean, they target they're getting too big, because off their evaluations, I think how she Corpuz one, um, >>and >>their bunch in the networking space. Uh, well, Tara, if I say the right that was acquired by at five this week, this week or last week, Actually, last week for $500 million. Um, I know they're founder. So, like I found that, Yeah, there's a lot going on on the on the network side on the anything to do with data. Uh, that those air too hard areas in the cloud arena >>data, data protection, John, any any anything you could adhere. >>And I think I mean, I think ej ej is gonna be where the gaps are. And I think m and a activity is gonna be where again, the bigger too big to fail would agree with you on that one. But we're gonna look at white Spaces and say a white space for Amazon is like a monster space for a start up. Right? So you're gonna have these huge white spaces opportunities, and I think it's gonna be an M and a opportunity big time start ups to get bought in. Given the speed on, I think you're gonna see it around databases and around some of these new service meshes and micro services. I mean, >>they there's a There's a question here, somebody's that dons asking why is Google who has the most pervasive tech infrastructure on the planet. Not at the same level of other to hyper scale is I'll give you my two cents is because it took him a long time to get their heads out of their ads. I wrote a piece of around that a while ago on they just they figured out how to learn the enterprise. I mean, John, you've made this point a number of times, but they just and I got a late start. >>Yeah, they're adding a lot of people. If you look at their who their hiring on the Google Cloud, they're adding a lot of enterprise chops in there. They realized this years ago, and we've talked to many of the top leaders, although Curry and hasn't yet sit down with us. Um, don't know what he's hiding or waiting for, but they're clearly not geared up to chicken Pete. You can see it with some some of the things that they're doing, but I mean competed the level of Amazon, but they have strength and they're playing their strength, but they definitely recognize that they didn't have the enterprise motions and people in the DNA and that David takes time people in the enterprise. It's not for the faint of heart. It's unique details that are different. You can't just, you know, swing the Google playbook and saying We're gonna home The enterprises are text grade. They knew that years ago. So I think you're going to see a good year for Google. I think you'll see a lot of change. Um, they got great people in there. On the product marketing side is Dev Solution Architects, and then the SRE model that they have perfected has been strong. And I think security is an area that they could really had a lot of value it. So, um always been a big fan of their huge network and all the intelligence they have that they could bring to bear on security. >>Yeah, I think Google's problem main problem that to actually there many, but one is that they don't They don't have the boots on the ground as compared to um, Microsoft, especially an Amazon actually had a similar problem, but they had a wide breath off their product portfolio. I always talk about feature proximity in cloud context, like if you're doing one thing. You wanna do another thing? And how do you go get that feature? Do you go to another cloud writer or it's right there where you are. So I think Amazon has the feature proximity and they also have, uh, aske Compared to Google, there's skills gravity. Larger people are trained on AWS. I think Google is trying there. So second problem Google is having is that that they're they're more focused on, I believe, um, on the data science part on their sort of skipping the cool components sort of off the cloud, if you will. The where the workloads needs, you know, basic stuff, right? That's like your compute storage and network. And that has to be well, talk through e think e think they will do good. >>Well, so later today, Paul Dillon sits down with Mids Avery of Google used to be in Oracle. He's with Google now, and he's gonna push him on on the numbers. You know, you're a distant third. Does that matter? And of course, you know, you're just a preview of it's gonna say, Well, no, we don't really pay attention to that stuff. But, John, you said something earlier that. I think Jerry Chen made this comment that, you know, Is it a winner? Take all? No, but it's a winner. Take a lot. You know the number two is going to get a big chunk of the pie. It appears that the markets big enough for three. But do you? Does Google have to really dramatically close the gap on be a much, much closer, you know, to the to the leaders in orderto to compete in this race? Or can they just kind of continue to bump along, siphon off the ad revenue? Put it out there? I mean, I >>definitely can compete. I think that's like Google's in it. Then it they're not. They're not caving, right? >>So But But I wrote I wrote recently that I thought they should even even put mawr oven emphasis on the cloud. I mean, maybe maybe they're already, you know, doubling down triple down. I just I think that is a multi trillion dollar, you know, future for the industry. And, you know, I think Google, believe it or not, could even do more. Now. Maybe there's just so much you could dio. >>There's a lot of challenges with these company, especially Google. They're in Silicon Valley. We have a big Social Justice warrior mentality. Um, there's a big debate going on the in the back channels of the tech scene here, and that is that if you want to be successful in cloud, you have to have a good edge strategy, and that involves surveillance, use of data and pushing the privacy limits. Right? So you know, Google has people within the country that will protest contract because AI is being used for war. Yet we have the most unstable geopolitical seen that I've ever witnessed in my lifetime going on right now. So, um, don't >>you think that's what happened with parlor? I mean, Rob Hope said, Hey, bar is pretty high to kick somebody off your platform. The parlor went over the line, but I would also think that a lot of the employees, whether it's Google AWS as well, said, Hey, why are we supporting you know this and so to your point about social justice, I mean, that's not something. That >>parlor was not just social justice. They were trying to throw the government. That's Rob e. I think they were in there to get selfies and being protesters. But apparently there was evidence from what I heard in some of these clubhouse, uh, private chats. Waas. There was overwhelming evidence on parlor. >>Yeah, but my point is that the employee backlash was also a factor. That's that's all I'm saying. >>Well, we have Google is your Google and you have employees to say we will boycott and walk out if you bid on that jet I contract for instance, right, But Microsoft one from maybe >>so. I mean, that's well, >>I think I think Tom Poole's making a really good point here, which is a Google is an alternative. Thio aws. The last Google cloud next that we were asked at they had is all virtual issue. But I saw a lot of I T practitioners in the audience looking around for an alternative to a W s just seeing, though, we could talk about Mano Cloud or Multi Cloud, and Andy Jassy has his his narrative around, and he's true when somebody goes multiple clouds, they put you know most of their eggs in one basket. Nonetheless, I think you know, Google's got a lot of people interested in, particularly in the analytic side, um, in in an alternative, hedging their bets eso and particularly use cases, so they should be able to do so. I guess my the bottom line here is the markets big enough to have Really? You don't have to be the Jack Welch. I gotta be number one and number two in the market. Is that the conclusion here? >>I think so. But the data gravity and the skills gravity are playing against them. Another problem, which I didn't want a couple of earlier was Google Eyes is that they have to boot out AWS wherever they go. Right? That is a huge challenge. Um, most off the most off the Fortune 2000 companies are already using AWS in one way or another. Right? So they are the multi cloud kind of player. Another one, you know, and just pure purely somebody going 200% Google Cloud. Uh, those cases are kind of pure, if you will. >>I think it's gonna be absolutely multi cloud. I think it's gonna be a time where you looked at the marketplace and you're gonna think in terms of disaster recovery, model of cloud or just fault tolerant capabilities or, you know, look at the parlor, the next parlor. Or what if Amazon wakes up one day and said, Hey, I don't like the cubes commentary on their virtual events, so shut them down. We should have a fail over to Google Cloud should Microsoft and Option. And one of people in Microsoft ecosystem wants to buy services from us. We have toe kind of co locate there. So these are all open questions that are gonna be the that will become certain pretty quickly, which is, you know, can a company diversify their computing An i t. In a way that works. And I think the momentum around Cooper Netease you're seeing as a great connective tissue between, you know, having applications work between clouds. Right? Well, directionally correct, in my opinion, because if I'm a company, why wouldn't I wanna have choice? So >>let's talk about this. The data is mixed on that. I'll share some data, meaty our data with you. About half the companies will say Yeah, we're spreading the wealth around to multiple clouds. Okay, That's one thing will come back to that. About the other half were saying, Yeah, we're predominantly mono cloud we didn't have. The resource is. But what I think going forward is that that what multi cloud really becomes. And I think John, you mentioned Snowflake before. I think that's an indicator of what what true multi cloud is going to look like. And what Snowflake is doing is they're building abstraction, layer across clouds. Ed Walsh would say, I'm standing on the shoulders of Giants, so they're basically following points of presence around the globe and building their own cloud. They call it a data cloud with a global mesh. We'll hear more about that later today, but you sign on to that cloud. So they're saying, Hey, we're gonna build value because so many of Amazon's not gonna build that abstraction layer across multi clouds, at least not in the near term. So that's a really opportunity for >>people. I mean, I don't want to sound like I'm dating myself, but you know the date ourselves, David. I remember back in the eighties, when you had open systems movement, right? The part of the whole Revolution OS I open systems interconnect model. At that time, the networking stacks for S N A. For IBM, decadent for deck we all know that was a proprietary stack and then incomes TCP I p Now os I never really happened on all seven layers, but the bottom layers standardized. Okay, that was huge. So I think if you look at a W s or some of the comments in the chat AWS is could be the s n a. Depends how you're looking at it, right? And you could say they're open. But in a way, they want more Amazon. So Amazon's not out there saying we love multi cloud. Why would they promote multi cloud? They are a one of the clouds they want. >>That's interesting, John. And then subject is a cloud architect. I mean, it's it is not trivial to make You're a data cloud. If you're snowflake, work on AWS work on Google. Work on Azure. Be seamless. I mean, certainly the marketing says that, but technically, that's not trivial. You know, there are latent see issues. Uh, you know, So that's gonna take a while to develop. What? Do your thoughts there? >>I think that multi cloud for for same workload and multi cloud for different workloads are two different things. Like we usually put multiple er in one bucket, right? So I think you're right. If you're trying to do multi cloud for the same workload, that's it. That's Ah, complex, uh, problem to solve architecturally, right. You have to have a common ap ice and common, you know, control playing, if you will. And we don't have that yet, and then we will not have that for a for at least one other couple of years. So, uh, if you if you want to do that, then you have to go to the lower, lowest common denominator in technical sort of stock, if you will. And then you're not leveraging the best of the breed technology off their from different vendors, right? I believe that's a hard problem to solve. And in another thing, is that that that I always say this? I'm always on the death side, you know, developer side, I think, uh, two deaths. Public cloud is a proxy for innovative culture. Right. So there's a catch phrase I have come up with today during shower eso. I think that is true. And then people who are companies who use the best of the breed technologies, they can attract the these developers and developers are the Mazen's off This digital sort of empires, amazingly, is happening there. Right there they are the Mazen's right. They head on the bricks. I think if you don't appeal to developers, if you don't but extensive for, like, force behind educating the market, you can't you can't >>put off. It's the same game Stepping story was seeing some check comments. Uh, guard. She's, uh, linked in friend of mine. She said, Microsoft, If you go back and look at the Microsoft early days to the developer Point they were, they made their phones with developers. They were a software company s Oh, hey, >>forget developers, developers, developers. >>You were if you were in the developer ecosystem, you were treated his gold. You were part of the family. If you were outside that world, you were competitors, and that was ruthless times back then. But they again they had. That was where it was today. Look at where the software defined businesses and starve it, saying it's all about being developer lead in this new way to program, right? So the cloud next Gen Cloud is going to look a lot like next Gen Developer and all the different tools and techniques they're gonna change. So I think, yes, this kind of developer ecosystem will be harnessed, and that's the power source. It's just gonna look different. So, >>Justin, Justin in the chat has a comment. I just want to answer the question about elastic thoughts on elastic. Um, I tell you, elastic has momentum uh, doing doing very well in the market place. Thea Elk Stack is a great alternative that people are looking thio relative to Splunk. Who people complain about the pricing. Of course it's plunks got the easy button, but it is getting increasingly expensive. The problem with elk stack is you know, it's open source. It gets complicated. You got a shard, the databases you gotta manage. It s Oh, that's what Ed Walsh's company chaos searches is all about. But elastic has some riel mo mentum in the marketplace right now. >>Yeah, you know, other things that coming on the chat understands what I was saying about the open systems is kubernetes. I always felt was that is a bad metaphor. But they're with me. That was the TCP I peep In this modern era, C t c p I p created that that the disruptor to the S N A s and the network protocols that were proprietary. So what KUBERNETES is doing is creating a connective tissue between clouds and letting the open source community fill in the gaps in the middle, where kind of way kind of probably a bad analogy. But that's where the disruption is. And if you look at what's happened since Kubernetes was put out there, what it's become kind of de facto and standard in the sense that everyone's rallying around it. Same exact thing happened with TCP was people were trashing it. It is terrible, you know it's not. Of course they were trashed because it was open. So I find that to be very interesting. >>Yeah, that's a good >>analogy. E. Thinks the R C a cable. I used the R C. A cable analogy like the VCRs. When they started, they, every VC had had their own cable, and they will work on Lee with that sort of plan of TV and the R C. A cable came and then now you can put any TV with any VCR, and the VCR industry took off. There's so many examples out there around, uh, standards And how standards can, you know, flair that fire, if you will, on dio for an industry to go sort of wild. And another trend guys I'm seeing is that from the consumer side. And let's talk a little bit on the consuming side. Um, is that the The difference wouldn't be to B and B to C is blood blurred because even the physical products are connected to the end user Like my door lock, the August door lock I didn't just put got get the door lock and forget about that. Like I I value the expedience it gives me or problems that gives me on daily basis. So I'm close to that vendor, right? So So the middle men, uh, middle people are getting removed from from the producer off the technology or the product to the consumer. Even even the sort of big grocery players they have their APs now, uh, how do you buy stuff and how it's delivered and all that stuff that experience matters in that context, I think, um, having, uh, to be able to sell to thes enterprises from the Cloud writer Breuder's. They have to have these case studies or all these sample sort off reference architectures and stuff like that. I think whoever has that mawr pushed that way, they are doing better like that. Amazon is Amazon. Because of that reason, I think they have lot off sort off use cases about on top of them. And they themselves do retail like crazy. Right? So and other things at all s. So I think that's a big trend. >>Great. Great points are being one of things. There's a question in there about from, uh, Yaden. Who says, uh, I like the developer Lead cloud movement, But what is the criticality of the executive audience when educating the marketplace? Um, this comes up a lot in some of my conversations around automation. So automation has been a big wave to automate this automate everything. And then everything is a service has become kind of kind of the the executive suite. Kind of like conversation we need to make everything is a service in our business. You seeing people move to that cloud model. Okay, so the executives think everything is a services business strategy, which it is on some level, but then, when they say Take that hill, do it. Developers. It's not that easy. And this is where a lot of our cube conversations over the past few months have been, especially during the cova with cute virtual. This has come up a lot, Dave this idea, and start being around. It's easy to say everything is a service but will implement it. It's really hard, and I think that's where the developer lead Connection is where the executive have to understand that in order to just say it and do it are two different things. That digital transformation. That's a big part of it. So I think that you're gonna see a lot of education this year around what it means to actually do that and how to implement it. >>I'd like to comment on the as a service and subject. Get your take on it. I mean, I think you're seeing, for instance, with HP Green Lake, Dell's come out with Apex. You know IBM as its utility model. These companies were basically taking a page out of what I what I would call a flawed SAS model. If you look at the SAS players, whether it's salesforce or workday, service now s a P oracle. These models are They're really They're not cloud pricing models. They're they're basically you got to commit to a term one year, two year, three year. We'll give you a discount if you commit to the longer term. But you're locked in on you. You probably pay upfront. Or maybe you pay quarterly. That's not a cloud pricing model. And that's why I mean, they're flawed. You're seeing companies like Data Dog, for example. Snowflake is another one, and they're beginning to price on a consumption basis. And that is, I think, one of the big changes that we're going to see this decade is that true cloud? You know, pay by the drink pricing model and to your point, john toe, actually implement. That is, you're gonna need a whole new layer across your company on it is quite complicated it not even to mention how you compensate salespeople, etcetera. The a p. I s of your product. I mean, it is that, but that is a big sea change that I see coming. Subject your >>thoughts. Yeah, I think like you couldn't see it. And like some things for this big tech exacts are hidden in the plain >>sight, right? >>They don't see it. They they have blind spots, like Look at that. Look at Amazon. They went from Melissa and 200 millisecond building on several s, Right, Right. And then here you are, like you're saying, pay us for the whole year. If you don't use the cloud, you lose it or will pay by month. Poor user and all that stuff like that that those a role models, I think these players will be forced to use that term pricing like poor minute or for a second, poor user. That way, I think the Salesforce moral is hybrid. They're struggling in a way. I think they're trying to bring the platform by doing, you know, acquisition after acquisition to be a platform for other people to build on top off. But they're having a little trouble there because because off there, such pricing and little closeness, if you will. And, uh, again, I'm coming, going, going back to developers like, if you are not appealing to developers who are writing the latest and greatest code and it is open enough, by the way open and open source are two different things that we all know that. So if your platform is not open enough, you will have you know, some problems in closing the deals. >>E. I want to just bring up a question on chat around from Justin didn't fitness. Who says can you touch on the vertical clouds? Has your offering this and great question Great CP announcing Retail cloud inventions IBM Athena Okay, I'm a huge on this point because I think this I'm not saying this for years. Cloud computing is about horizontal scalability and vertical specialization, and that's absolutely clear, and you see all the clouds doing it. The vertical rollouts is where the high fidelity data is, and with machine learning and AI efforts coming out, that's accelerated benefits. There you have tow, have the vertical focus. I think it's super smart that clouds will have some sort of vertical engine, if you will in the clouds and build on top of a control playing. Whether that's data or whatever, this is clearly the winning formula. If you look at all the successful kind of ai implementations, the ones that have access to the most data will get the most value. So, um if you're gonna have a data driven cloud you have tow, have this vertical feeling, Um, in terms of verticals, the data on DSO I think that's super important again, just generally is a strategy. I think Google doing a retail about a super smart because their whole pitches were not Amazon on. Some people say we're not Google, depending on where you look at. So every of these big players, they have dominance in the areas, and that's scarce. Companies and some companies will never go to Amazon for that reason. Or some people never go to Google for other reasons. I know people who are in the ad tech. This is a black and we're not. We're not going to Google. So again, it is what it is. But this idea of vertical specialization relevant in super >>forts, I want to bring to point out to sessions that are going on today on great points. I'm glad you asked that question. One is Alan. As he kicks off at 1 p.m. Eastern time in the transformation track, he's gonna talk a lot about the coming power of ecosystems and and we've talked about this a lot. That that that to compete with Amazon, Google Azure, you've gotta have some kind of specialization and vertical specialization is a good one. But of course, you see in the big Big three also get into that. But so he's talking at one o'clock and then it at 3 36 PM You know this times are strange, but e can explain that later Hillary Hunter is talking about she's the CTO IBM I B M's ah Financial Cloud, which is another really good example of specifying vertical requirements and serving. You know, an audience subject. I think you have some thoughts on this. >>Actually, I lost my thought. E >>think the other piece of that is data. I mean, to the extent that you could build an ecosystem coming back to Alan Nancy's premise around data that >>billions of dollars in >>their day there's billions of dollars and that's the title of the session. But we did the trillion dollar baby post with Jazzy and said Cloud is gonna be a trillion dollars right? >>And and the point of Alan Answer session is he's thinking from an individual firm. Forget the millions that you're gonna save shifting to the cloud on cost. There's billions in ecosystems and operating models. That's >>absolutely the business value. Now going back to my half stack full stack developer, is the business value. I've been talking about this on the clubhouses a lot this past month is for the entrepreneurs out there the the activity in the business value. That's the new the new intellectual property is the business logic, right? So if you could see innovations in how work streams and workflow is gonna be a configured differently, you have now large scale cloud specialization with data, you can move quickly and take territory. That's much different scenario than a decade ago, >>at the point I was trying to make earlier was which I know I remember, is that that having the horizontal sort of features is very important, as compared to having vertical focus. You know, you're you're more healthcare focused like you. You have that sort of needs, if you will, and you and our auto or financials and stuff like that. What Google is trying to do, I think that's it. That's a good thing. Do cook up the reference architectures, but it's a bad thing in a way that you drive drive away some developers who are most of the developers at 80 plus percent, developers are horizontal like you. Look at the look into the psyche of a developer like you move from company to company. And only few developers will say I will stay only in health care, right? So I will only stay in order or something of that, right? So they you have to have these horizontal capabilities which can be applied anywhere on then. On top >>of that, I think that's true. Sorry, but I'll take a little bit different. Take on that. I would say yes, that's true. But remember, remember the old school application developer Someone was just called in Application developer. All they did was develop applications, right? They pick the framework, they did it right? So I think we're going to see more of that is just now mawr of Under the Covers developers. You've got mawr suffer defined networking and software, defined storage servers and cloud kubernetes. And it's kind of like under the hood. But you got your, you know, classic application developer. I think you're gonna see him. A lot of that come back in a way that's like I don't care about anything else. And that's the promise of cloud infrastructure is code. So I think this both. >>Hey, I worked. >>I worked at people solved and and I still today I say into into this context, I say E r P s are the ultimate low code. No code sort of thing is right. And what the problem is, they couldn't evolve. They couldn't make it. Lightweight, right? Eso um I used to write applications with drag and drop, you know, stuff. Right? But But I was miserable as a developer. I didn't Didn't want to be in the applications division off PeopleSoft. I wanted to be on the tools division. There were two divisions in most of these big companies ASAP. Oracle. Uh, like companies that divisions right? One is the cooking up the tools. One is cooking up the applications. The basketball was always gonna go to the tooling. Hey, >>guys, I'm sorry. We're almost out of time. I always wanted to t some of the sections of the day. First of all, we got Holder Mueller coming on at lunch for a power half hour. Um, you'll you'll notice when you go back to the home page. You'll notice that calendar, that linear clock that we talked about that start times are kind of weird like, for instance, an appendix coming on at 1 24. And that's because these air prerecorded assets and rather than having a bunch of dead air, we're just streaming one to the other. So so she's gonna talk about people, process and technology. We got Kathy Southwick, whose uh, Silicon Valley CEO Dan Sheehan was the CEO of Dunkin Brands and and he was actually the c 00 So it's C A CEO connecting the dots to the business. Daniel Dienes is the CEO of you I path. He's coming on a 2:47 p.m. East Coast time one of the hottest companies, probably the fastest growing software company in history. We got a guy from Bain coming on Dave Humphrey, who invested $750 million in Nutanix. He'll explain why and then, ironically, Dheeraj Pandey stew, Minuteman. Our friend interviewed him. That's 3 35. 1 of the sessions are most excited about today is John McD agony at 403 p. M. East Coast time, she's gonna talk about how to fix broken data architectures, really forward thinking stuff. And then that's the So that's the transformation track on the future of cloud track. We start off with the Big Three Milan Thompson Bukovec. At one oclock, she runs a W s storage business. Then I mentioned gig therapy wrath at 1. 30. He runs Azure is analytics. Business is awesome. Paul Dillon then talks about, um, IDs Avery at 1 59. And then our friends to, um, talks about interview Simon Crosby. I think I think that's it. I think we're going on to our next session. All right, so keep it right there. Thanks for watching the Cuban cloud. Uh huh.

from around the globe it's thecube with coverage of kubecon and cloudnativecon north america 2020 virtual brought to you by red hat the cloud native computing foundation and ecosystem partners hey welcome back everybody jeff frick here with thecube coming to you from our palo alto studios for the continuing coverage of kubecon cloud native con 2020 north america there was the european version earlier in the summer it's all virtual uh so the good news is we don't have to get on planes and we can get guests from all over the world and we're excited to welcome back for his return to the cube ricardo rocha he is a staff member and computing engineer at cern ricardo great to see you hello thanks for having me absolutely and you're coming in from uh from geneva so you're you already had a good thursday i bet yeah we're just finishing right now yeah right so in in getting ready for this um interview i was looking at the interview that you did i think it was two cube cons ago uh in may of 2019 and it just strikes me a lot of people know what cern is but a lot of people don't know what's cern in so i wonder if you can just give you know kind of the 101 of what cern's mission is and what is some of the work that you guys do there yeah sure uh so cern is the european organization for uh nuclear research we are the largest particle physics laboratory in the world and our main mission is uh fundamental research so we try to answer big questions about why don't we see antimatter what is dark matter or dark energy other questions about the origin of the universe and to answer these questions we build very large machines particle accelerators where we try to recreate some of [Music] the moments just after the universe was created the big bang to try to understand better what was the state of the matter at that time the result of all of this is very often a lot of data that has to be analyzed and that's why we traditionally have had a huge requirements for computing resources during the the start of cern we always had this this large large requirements right and so you have this large particle accelerators as you said large machines the one that you've got now the the latest one how long has that one been operational yeah so it started uh like maybe around 10 years ago the first launch was a bit before that uh and it's uh it's a very large uh it's the largest one ever built so it's 27 kilometers in perimeter we inject protons into different uh directions and then we we make them collide where we build these huge detectors that can can see what's happening in these collisions uh the the main the main particle accelerator is this one we do have other experiments we have a nancy meta factory that is just uh down from my office and we have other types of experiments as well going right 27 kilometers that's a big that's a big number and then and then again just so people get some type of sense of scale so then you you you speed up the particles you smash them together you see what happens they collect all the data what types of data sets are generated off off just a one you know kind of event and i don't even know if that's a relative you know if that's a valid measure how do how do you measure kind of quantities of data around event just you know kind of for orders of magnitude right so uh the way it works is as you said we accelerate the particles to very close to the speed of light and we increase the energy by by having the beams well controlled and then at specific points we make them collide we have this gigantic detectors underground all of this is 100 meters in the ground and these detectors are pretty much a very large camera that would take something like 40 million pictures a second and the result of this is a huge amount of data each of these detectors can generate up to one petabyte of second this is not something we can record so what we do is we have hardware filters that will bring this down to something we can manage which is in the order of a few tens of gigabytes per second wow so you've been you've got a very serious computing challenge ahead of you because you're the one that's on the hook for for grabbing the data recording the data making the data available for for people to use um on their experiments um so we're here at kubecon cloud native con where did containers come into the story uh and and kubernetes specifically what was the real uh challenge that you're trying to overcome yeah so uh this is a a long story of uh using distributed computing at cern and other types of computing so as i mentioned we generate a lot of data we generate something like 7 but of 70 petabytes of data every year and we accumulated something over one half an exabyte of data by now so uh traditionally we've had to build this software ourselves um which was uh because there was not so many people around that would have this kind of needs but this revolution with containers and the clouds appearing kind of allowed us to to join other other communities and benefit also from their work and not have to do everything ourselves so this is the main probe for us to start doing this the other point is more containerization we traditionally are very we have a lot of needs to share information but also share resources between physicists and engineers so this idea of containerizing the work including all the code all the data and then sharing this with our colleagues is very appealing the fact that we can also take this unit of work and just deploy it in any infrastructure that has a standardized api like kubernetes and scale that monitoring the same way it's also very appealing so all of these things kind of connect with our way of working our natural way of working i would say right so you've talked about the this upgrade is coming um to the particle accelerator in a couple four or five years whatever that timeline is relatively soon um this as you've said before is a huge step function in the data that's that that's going to come off these experiments i mean how are you keeping up on the compute side with the fundamental shift in on kind of the physics side and the data that's going to be generated to make sure that you can keep up and i think you said it in a prior interview somewhere along the way that you know you don't want to be the bottleneck when there's all this great work being done but if it's not captured and made available for people to do stuff with the data then you know it's not uh it's not the greatest experiment so how are you keeping up and and what's the relative scale to have what you got to do on the compute side to keep up with the the guys on the physics side yeah so the the the idea well we what we will have to deal with is an increase of 10 times of more data than we have today we already have a lot and very soon we'll have a lot more but this is not i would say this is not the first time this kind of uh step happens uh in our computing we always kind of found a new technology or a new way to do things that would improve in in this case uh what we do is we do what we always do which is we try to look for all sorts of new technologies or all sorts of new resources that we could make use of in this case a lot is involving improving our own software to replace what we currently use with hardware triggers to replace that with software-based using accelerators gpus and other types of accelerators this will play a big role and also making our software more efficient in this way the second thing that we are doing is trying to make our infrastructure more agile and this is where cloud native kubernetes plays a huge role so that we can benefit from external resources uh we we can always think of like expanding our in on-premises resources but it's also very good to be able to just go and fish around if there's something available externally kubernetes plays a very big role in that respect as well yeah i'd love to dig into that a little deeper because the cloud native foundation is a super active foundation obviously a ton of activity around kubernetes so what does that mean to you as an infrastructure provider you know to your own company being on the hook to have now you know kind of an open source community that's supporting you indirectly via ongoing developments and ongoing projects and having as you said kind of this broader group of brain power to pull from to help you move your own infrastructure along yeah i think this this is great we've had really good experiences in the past we've been uh heavy users of uh linux from from from for a very long time we've used openstack for our private cloud and we've been heavily involved in that community as well we not only uh contribute as end users but we also uh offer some some manpower for development and helping with the community and we are doing the same with kubernetes uh and this is uh this is really we we end up getting a lot more than we we are putting in the community we are quite involved but uh it's so large and and and with such big players that have very similar needs to ours that uh we end up having a lot a lot more back than we are putting in we try to help as much as possible but uh yeah we have limited resources as well now open source is an amazing it's just an amazing innovation uh machine and and obviously it's proved as its value over a lot of things from linux to kubernetes being one of the most recent i want to shift gears a little bit right and ask you just your your take on public cloud right one of the huge benefits of public cloud is is the flexibility to add capacity shrink capacity as you need it and you talked again in a prior thing i was looking at you know that you definitely have spikes uh in demand spikes whether there's a high frequency of experiments i don't know how frequently you run those things versus maybe a conference or something where you said people you know want to get access to the data run experiments prior to your conference do you where does public cloud play in your thoughts and maybe you're there today maybe you're not how do you think about you know kind of public cloud generically but more specifically you know that ability to add a little bit more flex in your compute horsepower or are you just going up into the right up into the right and not really flexing down very much yeah so this is this is something we've been working on for a few years now uh we it's uh it's uh it's i would say it's an ongoing work it's a situation that will will not uh be very clear for the for the next few years but again what what we try to do is just to explore as much as possible all kinds of resources that can help us what we did in the kubecon last year was this demonstration that we can actually scale we can scale out and burst for for this uh spiky workloads we have we can burst to the to the public cloud quite easily using this kind of cloud native technologies that we have today and this is extremely important because it kind of changes our mindset instead of having to to think only on investing on premises we can think that maybe we can cover for the majority of use cases but then explore and burst to the public cloud this has to be easy in terms of infrastructure and that we are at that point right now with kubernetes we also have kind of workload that is maybe easier to do these things than than a traditional i.t where services are very interconnected in our case we are more thinking of batch workloads where we can just submit jobs uh and then fetch the data back right this also has a few challenges but but it's i would say it's it's easier than the traditional ite service deployments the other aspect where the public cloud is also very interesting is uh for resources that we don't have in large quantities so we have a very large farm for with cpus we have some gpus and it's very good to be able to explore this new accelerator technologies and maybe expand our available pool of accelerators by going to the public cloud maybe to use them but also to validate to see which ones are best for our use cases and explore that option as well it's not only general capacity it's really like dedicated um hardware that we might not even have ever like we think of tpus or ipu's it's something that is very interesting that we can scale and just go go use them in the public cloud yeah that's a really interesting point because because the cloud providers are big enough now right that they're building all kind of specialized specialized server specialized uh cpu specialized gpus dpus is a new one i've heard a data processing unit as you said there's fpgas and all kinds of accelerators so it is a really rich environment for as you said to do your experiments and find what the optimal solution is for whatever that particular workload is but ricardo i want to shift gears a little bit as we come to the end of 2020 thankfully for a whole bunch of reasons as you look forward to 2021 i mean clearly anticipating and starting to plan to get ready for your upgrade as a priority i'm just curious what are your other priorities and how does you know kind of the compute infrastructure in terms of an investment within cern you know kind of rank with the investment around the physical things that you're building the big machines because without the compute those other things really don't provide much data and i know those are we always talked about how expensive the particle accelerators is it's an interesting number and it's big but you guys are a big piece of that as well so what are your priorities looking forward to 2021 yeah from from the compute side i think we are keeping the the priorities in similar to what we've been doing the last few years which is to make sure that we improve all our automation to improve efficiency as well to prepare for these upgrades we have but also there's a lot of activity in this new uh area with machine learning popping up we have a ton of services appearing where people want to to start doing machine learning in many many use cases in some cases they want to do the filtering in the detectors in other cases they want to generate simulation data a lot faster using machine learning as well so i think this will be something that will be a huge topic for next year even for the next couple of years which is to see how we can offer our users and physicists the best service so that they don't have to care about the infrastructure they don't have to know about the details of how they scale their their model training their serving of their models all of this i think this will be a very big topic um it's something that it's becoming really a big part of of the world computing for high energy physics and for cern as well that's great we see that a lot you know just applied machine learning to very specific problems you talked about you still can't even record all that information that comes off those things you have to do some compression technology and other things so real opportunities barely scratched on the surface of machine learning and ai but i'm sure you're going to be using it a ton well ricardo give you give you the last word um we're in at cncf's uh kubecon cloud native con you know what do you get out of these types of shows and why is this such again kind of why is it such an important piece of your way you get your job done yeah honestly uh with all this uh situation right now i kind of really miss this kind of conferences in person uh it's really a huge opportunity to connect with uh with the other end users but also with with the community and to talk to the developers discuss things over uh coffee beer this is something that is really something that is really useful to to have this kind of meetings every year uh i think what what uh i always try to say is uh this this wall infrastructure is is truly making a big impact in the way we do things so we can only thank the community uh it's it allows us to to kind of shift to focusing on a higher level to focus more on our use cases instead of having to focus so much on the infrastructure we kind of start giving it as a given that the infrastructure scales and we can just use it and focus on optimizing our own software so this is a huge contribution we can only thank the cncf projects and everyone involved great well thank you for that uh that summary and that that's a terrific summary so ricardo thank you so much for all your hard work answering really big helping answer really big questions and uh and for joining us today and sharing your insight thank you very much all right he's ricardo i'm jeff you're watching the cube from our palo alto studios for continuing coverage of kubecon cloud nativecon 2020. thanks for watching see you next time [Music] you

>> Host: From around the globe, it's theCUBE, with coverage of KubeCon and CloudNativeCon North America 2020 virtual brought to you by Red Hat, the cloud native computing foundation and ecosystem partners. >> Hi everyone, I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. We are here covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon North America 2020, November 17th to the 20th, a virtual event. Normally we're there in person, but again, 2020 has been a crazy year, we're not going to be able to be there in person, but we're here remotely. We have two great guests, the co-chairs of KubeCon and CloudNativeCon Stephen Augustus senior, open source engineer VMware KubeCon CloudNativeCon chair and Constance Caramanolis principal software here at Splunk and you guys are co-chairs of KubeCon. Big responsibility, thank you for coming on. >> Thank you. Thank you for having us. >> Thank you for having us. >> Okay so we, the number one question every year is before it gets started is, how did you make the selections for the talks, what's the hottest thing going on, what's the focus for this KubeCon? >> Well, so actually we use a Ouija board to choose the talks. (laughing) No, I'm joking it doesn't happen that way. >> Yeah, yeah, it's pretty much all out of a hat, but seriously, we spent a lot of time with talks that showed, I guess diversity and integration in the community. So, what projects are starting to pick up steam? What projects are starting to integrate more deeply with other ones? So you'll see lots of commentary around, multi cluster items within cloud native technologies, as well as, lots of content on security, which I'm excited about. >> Yeah, and also things are like, there's a little bit like, kind of to your point about like things layered on, like we're starting to get to the point where people are talking about like hey, I deployed Kubernetes and Envoy and something else. And like, these are starting to be a lot more of these kind of joint talks there that actually even make it harder for us to place. Like, does it belong in networking? Does it belong in application development? Like there've been some really good challenges trying to figure out where things are slotted and what's right- >> You know one of the things I love about KubeCon besides being fun to go to while it's face to face is even with the virtual, it's still a great community. The talks are awesome, people are submitting talks. But you got the sixth year, I think it's a six year or fifth year. We've been there for all years. I think this is the sixth year for us, the maturation, the growth and of Kubernetes now it's pretty clear. This glue layer, is gluing things together the API is extending to service and more services. Can you guys comment on what you guys are seeing in terms of some of the practical projects and how they're playing out for developers? Because you're starting to see you know, more clusters you've got cloud you've got multi-cloud around the horizon. So you've got more of these conversations where you have more capabilities but the focus on the modern application building is the number one business focus. So, you know, the developers are trying to build out under the covers and say, how do I scale this? So, this seems to be the kind of a growth year and inflection point for that next level. It seems like next level. Steven, what's your thoughts and reactions to that? >> Yeah absolutely. So, as a former, I've been out a few cloud native companies at this point so more or less from Red Hat before heading over to VMware. And as a former field engineer and solutions architects at some of these places, we spent a lot of time thinking through what is the days, zero day one story, right? And it's very clear that as a community, we've gotten to the point where like that is officially the boring stuff, right? Seeing a lot of the features within projects like (indistinct) and Cluster API come to maturation. We start to focus a lot more on that developer story, right? And ultimately that's what we care about, right? Businesses are not necessarily looking for a new tool to play around with, right? There are business goals that are tied to the new technologies, right? So the velocity in which you deploy your applications, the feedback loop in terms of understanding, you know, what ties into your application, where things are going wrong and, you know, Constance can definitely speak to the, the observability layer for all of these cloud native applications that are out there. >> Constance, observability I hear is really hot right now, what's your take on it, I mean is observability everywhere? New startup comes out and you work at Splunk, they're the King King of observability, they started out with very small observation space now it's a full platform. You have to look at the observation space to get the data that's the internet. >> You do. >> That's semi application. What's hot in observability? Take us through your thoughts. >> I think what's also starting to like, so you're still like, there's some, I can think of like one talk right now, it's a little bit talking about like, you know, observability at scale in a sense of just like now we have these massive applications and saying we globally and to observe and monitor observe right now, I'm not going to use a tourism changeable. I know that's a total different debate the available topic, but for now, just keep it at that. But it's also now, I think one thing as observability space and maturing is we're not talking only about like, hey, I instrument my like application with metrics, logs, traces, or some other thing there. It's now being a little bit more critical about how, if I'm using all three of these are all different telemetries, like how to be smart about it. Like, okay, I'll need to use traces for some things and let me use logs for something else. And like kind of getting to reach a part of like, now that we have that data let's actually think about better ways to use that data. So we don't, you know, collect everything cause you can't collect everything as much as we want to. >> Well, I mean this is something that I want to get your both thoughts on because one of the conversations we're hearing from developers and we hear it from them on the business size everything is a service, that's like the ivory tower you know, the CXOs, everything is as a service and then it down into the developers in the engineering community and they're like, well, it's not that easy 'cause you got tools for every platform, right? And that's a problem because these siloed tools are tools that were built for a certain products. And then you've got the systems thinking you guys talk about this integration is a key area. So making everything is as a service, just isn't that easy, right? So the goal is to make it easy, right? So this is the systems conversation. How do you guys look at that from a KubeCon, CloudNativeCon because cloud native does enable a lot of, good things. It's horizontally scalable cloud from a resource standpoint, you've got programmability. You can look at it as a system but people are stuck with these tools for the platform. I mean, you have tools for this, tools for that and five different tools, how do you make observability work? How do you make security work? These are tough questions. What's your reaction to that? >> I think that a lot of it comes down to, from a building perspective and, you know, taking the builder perspective and then also taking the consumer perspective. For builders, and I actually spent some time with, at some developer heads in New York, we sat down for a dinner and kind of talked, talked through some of the problems in the space. And I think what it really comes down to is when we build tools we need to think about who we're building the tools for, right? There are multiple personas that you might look at in the cloud native space. And, you know, one might be the persona of that systems integrator, of the classic Opsy, DevOps SRE role, right? Then you've got someone who may be building tools on top of one of those Ops platforms, right? And then you've got the consumers that may be in your company maybe they're external, right? That's for their experience, they're really only interested in how do I ship my app, right? So whether we're talking about building out Kubernetes or whether we're talking about a server less platform, right? So sort of Alyssa and the cloud, right? You often hear the, it runs on, it's running on someone else's machine, right? You know, it's not really, so I think in that space you have to consider a developer experience, right? So I think one of the overarching themes that you'll see throughout this KubeCon is, how do we talk about the developer experience? Who are we building these tools for? How can we actually get outcomes that end users are looking for? Right, cause it's not, again, it's not about the tools it's about the outcomes for the respective businesses. >> Constance what's your reaction to this trend of tools. >> I think. >> Edge computing, 'cause you you don't want to have to build security for everything, single thing. I've got an edge device, I want to have that'd be software operated, right? It makes total sense. But making that happen is hard. >> Yeah, I think this is something that as a community like we're really, I guess like kind of how I use example like end user docs versus restaurants documentation. I think that we've been, done a really good job at creating these really powerful tools but like in terms of, we still need to simplify them for anyone who doesn't want to learn, like say Kubernetes or Envoy or open telemetry, like the back of their hand. And I think that's where we're starting to finally start to close that gap. And as I think also why KubeCon is getting a lot more popular is like now things are a little bit more accessible to those who don't have, you know, either don't have the bandwidth or it just it isn't in their interest to learn all these things in details. And so we're slowly going from those who want to be deep, deep experts into, yeah I kind of want to play around with it and make it more manageable. And, I do think we still have quite a bit of ways to go. Like I think, you know, what's been helpful like at least like our end user stories that we get and like the application development track, especially that one, like the case studies that there's no longer track but it is highlighted as like these talks and case studies. I think that shows it's kind of giving people more like, hey, these are stories of how I can take these tools and start making them more digestible in my own way. 'Cause going from like, oh, this feature does XYZ to, this is a whole story that you can do around it. It's been a little very gap, we're closing. >> Yeah, and I think one of the things about you kind of being shy there, I'll say, KubeCon, CloudNativeCon, CNCF in general has been very successful because of the end user focus I will say that. But also the ecosystem of the vendors that are there. So you have kind of the best of both worlds and they'll want to get better, right? So, but they al have to make money at the same time. So you have this balance, is open source, is what it is, it's out in the open. Can you guys comment on how the community is thriving and surviving? We're in a tough time with the pandemic. It's been a big challenge honestly, we're not in person we're remote. How is everything going with the community? Because it's such a great end user vendor community working together out in the open shipping code, trying to make things better. What's the state of the community? >> Yeah, so I would say that honestly, what it comes down to is that word community, we're all friends, right? There are people who, you know, as the, as we moved towards is kind of like cloud native consolidation of companies. A lot of us have worked together before, right? A lot of us are active in multiple communities and what comes out of that is really open and honest collaboration as a result. You know, even today there's a Twitter thread going, you know, I started talking about the Kubernetes release cadence, right? And if, and how it should change. Given 2020, we had an extended release cycle for 119, right? And questions became, what do we do? Like, do we continue with three releases a year? Do we try for, to do the switch back to four? Like, what does that look like? Right. And reaching out across the Kubernetes community across the CNCFC, the contributor strategy saying in CNCF and getting feedback from all of these people who depend on the products that we build day to day is huge. So I think what it comes down to really is, is open and honest collaboration. I think, you know, when you were strained I know that everyone has a lot going on in life right now. What's great about it is being forthcoming with that, right? We have all of these teams that are, that are built to support the people that are around them. So, if anything, I, you know, I'd love to see all of the collaboration and feedback coming from everyone who works on these projects day to day. >> Yeah. >> Constance what's your reaction? I mean when, I've talked of some developer friends of mine, they're like, hey, this is great, I can work virtually, I've been doing it for years anyway. So no big deal. It's not like the people who have to go to the office every day. So they're used to virtual format. The other comment was, I get more time to do some gaming too. Trying to make light out of the bad situation, but you know, it is serious. What's your reaction to the survival and the thriving continue thriving of the community? >> Yeah, I also want to eventually go back to cause you're making a comment about vendors and now this is my first time as vendor. I have interesting, I like, it's a really interesting perspective to come from, but let's talk about the community. I think like, you know, it's like one of the things that like I think actually has been one of the highlights of this year for me, for 2020, it like to be co-chair but it's also just to like be able to work with Stephen and Nancy and the rest of the CNCF community. And also like any attendees, like has actually even though this is a big year of change and it's, you know, it was a change that no one was planning. It has definitely been like really nice to just get like Kube, I guess would say as an example, the story like for KubeCon you, like I was surprised at how many people were engaged in the Slack channel and asking questions and like Priyanka has set up these happy hours and people are just joining and we're starting to talk and so it wasn't quite hallway track but we still had that connection. And there was definitely, there are people who are attending from all parts of the world. And I thought that was really nice. Like, we think CNCF has made it, like they have made the statement before that there will always be a virtual component to it to address the fact that, you know, our community we're so used to being in person, but that does, you know it does reduce accessibility to those who can't travel or for whatever reason they can't be there in person. So now it is becoming more open. And, I know, I mean kind of turning back a little bit a little bit derail, I'm a little bit derailing but to your point about like also like the vendors. And so this is my first time being a part of a vendor. And I think what's really interesting is like, there's this natural like, you know, tension between like, oh, some were like, oh, I don't want to do it from the vendors, or like, I only want things from end users. But I think the thing that I've kind of forget is that both of them are like active, you know, they're active in the community, both in either contributing or enabling others to be successful using CNCF projects. And so we all have, you know, valid points and perspectives on it really. You can maybe sometimes argue that sometimes being a vendor is almost a bonus because you get to talk to maybe more people who are trying to adopt the technology and you get to see trends. And then after as an end user, you could say like, hey, I have this really unique problem here and this is how I try to solve it and share that story with other people, so. >> Yeah, I mean, I think you're right. I mean, there's checks and balance I've observed over my years in open source you've seen certain things thrive certain ways. And I think that balance and, but having the mission and kind of a rules of engagement if always seen well, good, worked well for CNCF they embraced the vendors really well, but they're, I mean I will say paranoid cause that's my word. But like they're paranoid of the vendors I would be too, like, you know, only to get their fingers in the pie, but they're also contributing. So there's always been that checks and balance and that's, what's been magical I think about it is that they fostered the community, they fostered the engagement and they fostered that balance. And I think that's where the give and get comes in. And I think that's a healthy community and I just love to see and love to be involved with. So, it's super, super good approach. Now, putting back the vendor hat on, if I'm a vendor, I want a competitive advantage. So yeah, this brings us to the next gen conversation open source goes and going next gen, you're seeing a big focus on AI, you're seeing a big focus on, you know, edge computing which is going to be software operated, software defined, which cloud native will lead. I got to get your perspective on something. Steven said at the top was security. Every conversation for the past five months with Dave has been shift left. So, okay. Where are we going left? We're shifting left. This is about security. How do you build security in? This has been a big conversation. It's not easy problem. I know it's a top focus. I want to get your reactions Steve and we'll start with you then Constance I would like you to weigh in too. >> Yeah sure, so, security, security is already strict, right? And I think that people start to put the focus on security when it's a little too late, right? The move is always preventative as opposed to reactive, right? And security is an onion, right? So it's not enough to just think about security on one axis, right? It's, you know, how is this affecting, you know, how is this affecting my application, the systems that I build, the physical, you know, the physical restraints of the, you know, of the area, right? Infrastructure, the cloud providers that I'm running on, right? Are they a certain level of compliant, right? Especially when that comes up for federal customers, right? On the application side, right? You know, if you think of, you know, if you think of all the, the different ways that you can break an application that hurts security now with the cloud native space container security, right? Am I building a safe Docker files or build packs or what have you, however you package your application. And ultimately you have to, you know and then there's also the supply chain, right? Am I getting, how am I moving that stuff from some physical infrastructure or some cloud infrastructure into the hands of the developers, into the hands of the customers? How do I react to changes once those applications have actually been deployed? Right? So like all of these things to consider and when you look at that space, these are multiple teams, right? These are dozens and dozens of teams across, you know, multiple companies, right? You may not have, you may not have full control of your security story, right? So I think that, what, you know what you need to do is start the conversation internally about how we can build security at multiple layers, right? So some of the things that are kind of interesting to see pop up during this KubeCon and some of, you know, and some of the last ones, the continued work that's happening on OPA and Gatekeeper spiffy and Spire, right? And, you know, all of these, all these frameworks for authentication and authorization that are kind of cropping up, right? I think, you know, Spiffy and Spire really interesting story because, you know, the first thing that you think is I have these cloud native applications that I'm building and I also have these legacy applications, right? How can I build a bridge between the two? Right? And then you've also got things like, you know, service mesh, right? And you start to talk about service mesh and, you know, the security within applications that live inside a cluster or across cluster, right? And how you negotiate that. So tons of things to think about, and, you know, it's honestly going to it's honestly going to depend on where you are in your journey but I think that, you know, good security is only built by having the conversation and having the conversation across all teams and doing it before you get into trouble. >> Do it before you get in trouble have it baked in from the beginning, brush your teeth make sure you're all healthy. Constance your reaction, (laughing) your reaction. >> So I will say like, I am unfortunately one of those people that like security, well security is just not something that I guess going to say I find super exciting. And it mostly just because I, I really love observability and like service mesh and so I usually defer to the experts on that, but I do want to like, I guess plus when some of what Steven said, obviously using git hub, you know, terminology for plus and what you know, enhancing things like definitely started early and it, but I think, you know, start early, start a conversation. But I think we also need just be cognizant of like for any of the technologies, like if it's security say networking whatever, all of these things are behavior changes and just bucket more time than you think you're going to need. There's going to be so many roadblocks and especially when it comes like, especially when it comes to behavior changes. Like, if you're and behavior, but not like necessarily like a personal, but like, you know, technology behavior like you're used to sending things without MTLS, right? Or, you know, with our backs, things are going to fail and, you know, there's going to be that initial friction and so definitely trying to make this smooth as possible. >> Yeah, I mean, I think that's the focus I like to see more of which is having it be built in. So if you're really not into it, but you don't want to screw it up either so you want to be on top of it without doing it, right? That's the end game, right? That's what DevOps is about. So if you don't have programming infrastructure write code. So all these things, this is the trend this is the trend that we're seeing in cloud native. Can you guys share your thoughts this year on, on the most important stories that you think people should think about or lean into or at least look at for KubeCon? What are some of the things that attendees or people watching remotely or participating virtually or in the Slack channels, what should they pay attention to? >> So starting with, I think even with the last KubeCon and some of the products that have recently come out from certain vendors, we're starting to look a lot more at the, what is that conversion story for someone who is a classic CIS admin, right? Who may be learning all about cloud native technology for the first time, or how do we, you know, how do we welcome a new KubeCon attendee to the community? So I think one of the best things that we did was instantiate that's a one-on-one track, right? So with the one-on-one track, I think we got a bunch of great feedback. So we work to make sure that they were actually, we eliminated I believe we fully eliminated the lightning talks and work to include more one-on-one content as well as tutorials within this program. >> Constance, your reaction, Constance your reaction to thoughts on the most important story to pay attention to? >> I think it's more, right, cause, okay, I know this is like a common line that we say at KubeCon and like, you know, depends what group your on. But since so many more of our talks we're now talking about intersections between like, you know, using X and Y try to build Z, Zed. Oh my goodness I'm trying, I'm losing my Zeds. I think trying to like, you know looking for those talks that at least somewhat resonated like, hey, I've already talked to communities, let me see how I add Envoy. Like, trying to find those there because there's a lot more of that content now, right? Cause maybe you know, about like to even last KubeCon or like last KubeCon North America, a lot of the things were more focused on like one project, maybe a hint or you're just going to see more of these combinations. And so there are a lot more, there's a lot more of that content available for you to find. I'm doing two, three, maybe four, It's a lot of projects at once, adoptions and seeing how that works too. Oh yeah, one-on-one track has definitely been definitely like a great hit. I'm going to say, right? The first time it was launched and we got so many CFPs for one-on-one it was just amazing to see all these ways that people wanted to make KubeCon more accessible to everyone else who hasn't been a part of, you know. >> It's every year, it's every year the onboarding of new members of the community would be impressive. And having that tracker laddering or different ways to work as a community to help people along has been another thing I noticed you guys do really well on. There's a real camaraderie amongst the community. So a hat tip for you guys on that. Final question for you guys is more about the format. Obviously it's virtual this year the game is still the same. There's talks, there's people, there's hallways, but they're virtual, I guess you're virtually walking through Slack and discord or Twitter, whatever. What's the learnings from last event, as we're going into virtual, how does an attendee maximize their time, their engagement there's times to lean in and be present, attending a talk, you mentioned Slack Constance. What's some of the learnings that you guys have learned from virtual? And what can people think about and prepare for, for KubeCon virtual this year? >> Yeah, I think one way you start it. So, there's actually a resource, this came from our debrief for me, it was like there's a resource like, hey, let me help get the day off. And like, we even provided template to like provide to your, you know, direct to your managers. Say like can I please get this day off so I could focus on it? And I think that's one thing that and I think we'd all probably seen on Twitter and blogs is that even though it is virtual it is still a brain drain, well it's still, you know, you have to engage with a topic so set aside time. I would probably even say attend fewer talks, than you would normally do in person there is zoom fatigue, I guess it's been from on screen fatigue. So just give yourself a lot more space to consume the information and just debrief and also join the activities, right? Like ask questions in Slack. There's a lot of the virtual events like there's bingo there's even an escape room, which sounds like a lot of fun, all these different activities too that you can do with everyone. So like definitely enjoy that part, right? 'Cause you still get a little bit off until you just say like hey, you mentioned this project, let's chat offline. And then, you know, a few weeks later you may be on a four hour long Zoom meeting talking about some project. And so, yeah >> Yeah, I noticed the hang space kind of mindset of virtual was pretty cool. Be mindful to introduce yourself and either do a sidebar or jump on some back channel. I mean, there's plenty of tools, developers know what they are, so pretty good point I want to call that out. Good, good point Constance. Steven, your thoughts on learnings from the virtual format and then things this year people should pay attention to and jump in and use the site for. >> Yeah, so I would say if anything the previous attendees gave lots of thoughtful feedback about how to improve the overall program. One of my favorite parts of any conference and it's the part that I prioritize more than anything else in the conference even the talks, right? Is the hallway track, right? It's one of the few times, you know, especially with KubeCon and the various contributors across the cloud native space that's the, you know, the one time every quarter or so that I get an opportunity to see these people face to face, right? So, you know, we wanted to do our best to bring in experience that felt, you know, it's not the, you know, it's not the same as the physical hug, right? Or the, you know, or going out for, you know, going out for dinner after a long day. But we tried and we laughed through lots of crazy ideas that the event team, to see what they would come up with for me as a New York resident and having a conference that is any virtual but would have been in Boston, I thought it was important thinking about screen fatigue, as well as just the physicality of where people would have been at the time, is the start time of the conference, right? So as Constance was mentioning screen fatigue it's, I think with all of the virtual conferences going on, it's very hard to have that time during the day, right? So this KubeCon for folks on the East coast it starts basically at your lunchtime. So the idea is, hopefully you get some, you get some of your meetings in for the day, grab a bite to eat and then you sit down for lunch and you, and you dig into some KubeCon, so. >> Yeah, and you can have any lunch you want and then later of you will be able to eat lunch from the conference. That's awesome. The other thing I love about the, what you guys said is the hallway tracks. And I think one of the things I've noticed going to a lot of virtual events and doing them is, Constance you're right, it's mentally draining to lean into a talk because you're present, even though you're virtual. So taking time to get involved in the fun activities or just, you know, wandering Slack or doing a sidebar with the hallways is kind of a have some time off like the time to regroup and not be so, you know, leaned into a session, I find that to help on the fatigue side for sure. The other one is viewing parties. We popped into some, you know, Zooms together and we watched each other watch the session, right? So viewing parties has been one trick I've seen work well, other ones I've seen people toast beer at a certain time. The Germans obviously do at first, cause they're on the time zone, but you start to see these playful things. You know, people can share their kind of position where they are. So it's fun. We'll look forward to seeing that. Okay, final comments, Steven, Constance. What's the bumper sticker this year for KubeCon? >> Ooh, have we decided yet Constance? (laughing) >> Velvet jackets are required for entry. (laughing) I'll make word sense after you see a special message from us. (laughing) >> It's a lot of fashion on stage, on stage, right? >> All right we stumped the co-chairs. (laughing) We stumped the, well, I want to say thank you very much for coming on and sharing little color commentary on KubeCon around the program, some of the things when the virtual event too some of the talks, really appreciate it and we really appreciate what you do, the community does. It's been a hard year. We're not going to be there in person. We'll continue to ride the wave in to back to the normal. So thanks for doing what you doing and thank you for coming on. >> Thank you so much for having us. >> Yeah, thank you. >> Okay. This is theCUBE, virtual coverage of KubeCon CloudNativeCon virtual November 17th to the 20th. I'm John Furrier, your host for theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>from New York. It's the Q covering Escape. 19. >>Welcome back to the Cube coverage here in New York City for the first inaugural multi cloud conference called Escape, where in New York City was staying in New York, were not escaping from New York were in New York. It's all about multi Cloud, and we're here. Lisa Marie Nancy, developer advocate for Port Works, and Eric Conn, vice president of Products Works. Welcome back. Q. >>Thank you, John. Good to see >>you guys. So, um, whenever the first inaugural of anything, we want to get into it and find out why. Multi clouds certainly been kicked around. People have multiple clouds, but is there really multi clouding going on? So this seems to be the theme here about setting the foundation, architecture and data of the two kind of consistent themes. What shared guys take Eric, What's your take on this multi cloud trend? Yeah, >>I think it's something we've all been actively watching for a couple years, and suddenly it is becoming the thing right? So every we just had ah, customer event back in Europe last week, and every customer there is already running multi cloud. It's always something on their consideration. So there's definitely it's not just a discussion topic. It's now becoming a practical reality. So this event's been perfect because it's both the sense of what are people doing, What are they trying to achieve and also the business sense. So it's definitely something that is not necessarily mainstream, but it's becoming much more how they're thinking about building all their applications. Going forward, >>you know, you have almost two camps in the world. Want to get your thoughts on this guy's Because, like you have cloud native and people that are cloud native, they love it. They born the cloud that get it. Everything's cracking along. The developers air on Micro Service's They're agile train with their own micro service's. Then you got the hybrid I t. Trying to be hybrid developer, right? So you kind of have to markets coming together. So to me, I see multi cloud as kind of a combination of old legacy Data center types of I t with cloud native, not just ops and dead. But how about like trying to build developer teams inside enterprises? This seems to be a big trend, and multi club fits into that because now the reality is that I got azure. I got Amazon. Well, let's take a step back and think about the architecture. What's the foundation? So that to me, is more my opinion. But I want to get your thoughts and reactions that because if it's true, that means some new thinking has to come around around. What's the architecture? What are you trying to do? What's the workloads behavior outcome look like? What's the work flows? So there's a whole nother set of conversations that happened. >>I agree. I think the thing that the fight out there right now that we want to make mainstream is that it's a platform choice, and that's the best way to go forward. So it's still an active debate. But the idea could be I want to do multi club, but I'm gonna lock myself into the Cloud Service is if that's the intent or that's the design architecture pattern. You're really not gonna achieve the goals we all set out to do right, So in some ways we have to design ourselves or have the architecture that will let us achieve the business schools that were really going for and that really means from our perspective or from a port works perspective. There's a platform team. That platform team should run all the applications and do so in a multi cloud first design pattern. And so from that perspective, that's what we're doing from a data plan perspective. And that's what we do with Kubernetes etcetera. So from that idea going forward, what we're seeing is that customers do want to build a platform team, have that as the architecture pattern, and that's what we think is going to be the winning strategy. >>Thank you. Also, when you have the definition of cod you have to incorporate, just like with hybrid I t the legacy applications. And we saw that you throughout the years those crucial applications, as we call them People don't always want them to refer to his legacy. But those are crucial applications, and our customers were definitely thinking about how we're gonna run those and where is the right places it on Prem. We're seeing that a lot too. So I think when we talk about multi cloud, we also talk about what What is in your legacy? What is it? Yeah, I >>like I mean I use legacy. I think it's a great word because I think it really puts nail in the coffin of that old way because remember, if you think about some of the large enterprises, these legacy applications, they've been optimized for hardware and optimize their full stack. They've been build up from the ground up, so they're cool. They're running stuff, but it doesn't always translate to see a new platform designed point. So how do you mean Containers is great fit for their Cooper names. Obviously, you know is the answer. We you guys see that as well, but okay, I can keep that and still get this design point. So I guess what I want to ask you guys, as you guys are digging into some of the customer facing conversations, what are they talking about? The day talking about? The platform? Specifically? Certainly, on the security side, we're seeing everyone running away from buying tools to thinking about platforms. What's the conversation like on the cloud side >>way? Did a talk are multiplied for real talk at Barcelona? Q. Khan put your X three on Sudden. Andrew named it for reals of Izzy, but we really wanted to talk about multiplied in the real world. And when we said show of hands in Barcelona, who's running multi cloud? It was very, very few. And this was in, what, five months? Four months ago? Whereas maybe our customers are just really super advanced because of our 100 plus customers. At four words, we Eric is right. A lot of them are already running multi cloud or if not their plan, in the planning stage right now. So even in the last +56 months, this has become a reality. And we're big fans of communities. I don't know if you know Eric was the first product manager for Pernetti. Hey, he's too shy to say it on Dhe. So yeah, and we think, you know, and criminal justice to be the answer to making all They caught a reality right now. >>Well, I want to get back into G, K, E and Cooper. Very notable historic moment. So congratulations, But to your point about multi cloud, it's interesting because, you know, having multiple clouds means things, right? So, for instance, if I upgrade to office 3 65 and I kill my exchange server, I'm essentially running azure by their definition. If I'm building it, stack on AWS. I'm a native, this customer. Let's just say I want to do some tensorflow or play with big table or spanner on Google. Now >>we have three >>clouds now they're not. So they have work clothes, specific objectives. I am totally no problem. I see that like for the progressive customers, some legacy be to be people who like maybe they put their toe in the cloud. But anyone doing meaningful cloud probably has multiple clouds. But that's workload driven when you get into tying them together and is interesting. And I think that's where I think you guys have a great opportunity in this community because if open source convene the gateway to minimize the lock in and when I say lock and I mean like locking them propriety respect if his value their great use it. But if I want to move my data out of the Amazon, >>you brought up so many good points. So let me go through a few and Lisa jumping. I feel like locking. People don't wanna be locked >>in at the infrastructure level. So, like you said, if >>there's value at the higher levels of Stack, and it helps me do my business faster. That's an okay thing to exchange, but it is just locked in and it's not doing anything. They're that's not equal exchange, right, So there's definitely a move from infrastructure up the platform. So locking in >>infrastructure is what people are trying to move away from. >>From what we see from the perspective of legacy, there is a lot of things happening in industry that's pretty exciting of how legacy will also start to running containers. And I'm sure you've seen that. But containers being the basis you could run a BM as well. And so that will mean a lot for in terms of how V EMS can start >>to be matched by orchestrators like kubernetes. So that is another movement for legacy, and I wanted to acknowledge that point >>now, in terms of the patterns, there are definitely applications, like a hybrid pattern where connect the car has to upload all its data once it docks into its location and move it to the data center. So there are patterns where the workflow does move the ups are the application data between on Prem into a public cloud, for instance, and then coming back from that your trip with Lisa. There is also examples where regulations require companies to enterprise is to be able to move to another cloud in a reasonable time frame. So there's definitely a notion of Multi Cloud is both an architectural design pattern. But it's also a sourcing strategy, and that sourcing strategy is more regulation type o. R. In terms of not being locked in. And that's where I'm saying it's all those things. I'd >>love to get your thoughts on this because I like where you're going with this because it kind of takes it to a level of okay, standardization, kubernetes nights, containers, everyone knows what that is. But then you start talking about a P I gateways, for instance, right? So if I'm a car and I have five different gateways on my device, I ot devices or I have multiple vendors dealing with control playing data that could be problematic. I gotta do something like that. So I'm starting. Envision them? I just made that news case up, but my point is is that you need some standards. So on the a p I side was seeing some trends there. One saying, Okay, here's my stuff. I'll just pass parameters with FBI State and stateless are two dynamics. What do you make of that? What, What? What has to happen next to get to that next level of happiness and goodness? Because Bernays, who's got it, got it there, >>right? I feel that next level. I feel like in Lisa, Please jump. And I feel like from automation perspective, Kubernetes has done that from a P I gateway. And what has to happen next. There's still a lot of easy use that isn't solved right. There's probably tons of opportunities out there to build a much better user experience, both from the operations point of view and from what I'm trying to do is an intense because what people aren't gonna automate right now is the intent. They automate a lot of the infrastructure manual tasks, and that's goodness. But from how I docked my application, how the application did it gets moved. We're still at the point of making policy driven, easy to use, and I think there's a lot of opportunities for everyone to get better there. That's like low priority loving fruitcake manual stuff >>and communities was really good at the local food. That's a really use case that you brought up. Really. People were looking at the data now and when you're talking about persistent mean kun is his great for stateless, but for state full really crucial data. So that's where we really come in. And a number of other companies in the cloud native storage ecosystem come in and have really fought through this problem and that data management problem. That's where this platform that Aaron was talking to that >>state problem. Talk about your company. I want to go back to to, um, Google Days. Um, many war stories around kubernetes will have the same fate as map reduce. Yeah, the debates internally at Google. What do we do with it? You guys made the good call. Congratulations on doing that. What was it like to be early on? Because you already had large scale. You were already had. Borg already had all these things in place. Um, it wasn't like there was what was, >>Well, a few things l say one is It was intense, right? It was intense in the sense that amazing amount of intelligence amazing amount of intent, and right back then a lot of things were still undecided, right? We're still looking at how containers or package we're still looking at how infrastructure kit run and a lot of service is were still being rolled out. So what it really meant is howto build something that people want to build, something that people want to run with you and how to build an ecosystem community. A lot of that the community got was done very well, right? You have to give credit to things like the Sig. A lot of things like how people like advocates like Lisa had gone out and made it part of what they're doing. And that's important, right? Every ecosystem needs to have those advocates, and that's what's going well, a cz ah flip side. I think there's a lot of things where way always look back, in which we could have done a few things differently. But that's a different story for different. Today >>I will come back in the studio Palop of that. I gotta ask you now that you're outside. Google was a culture shock. Oh my God! People actually provisioning software provisioning data center culture shock when there's a little >>bit of culture shock. One thing is, and the funny thing is coming full circle in communities now, is that the idea of an application? Right? The idea of what is an application eyes, something that feels very comfortable to a lot of legacy traditional. I wanna use traditional applications, but the moment you're you've spent so much time incriminates and you say, What's the application? It became a very hard thing, and I used to have a lot of academic debates. Where is saying there is no application? It's It's a soup of resources and such. So that was a hard thing. But funny thing is covered, as is now coming out with definitions around application, and Microsoft announced a few things in that area to so there are things that are coming full circle, but that just shows how the movement has changed and how things are becoming in some ways meeting each other halfway. >>Talk about the company, what you guys are doing. Take a moment. Explain in context to multi cloud. We're here. Port works. What's the platform? It's a product. What's the value proposition? What's the state of the company. >>So the companies? Uh well, well, it's grown from early days when Lisa and I joined where we're probably a handful now. We're in four or five cities. Geography ease over 100 people over 150 customers and there. It's been a lot of enterprises that are saying, like, How do I take this pattern of doing containers and micro service is And how do I run it with my mission? Critical business crinkle workloads. And at that point, there is no mission critical business critical workload that isn't stable so suddenly they're trying to say, How do I run These applications and containers and data have different life cycles. So what they're really looking for is a data plane that works with the control planes and how controlled planes are changing the behavior. So a lot of our technology and a lot of our product innovation has been around both the data plane but a storage control plane that integrates with a computer controlled plane. So I know we like to talk about one control plane. There's actually multiple control planes, and you mentioned security, right? If I look at how applications are running way after now securely access for applications, and it's no longer have access to the data. Before I get to use it, you have to now start to do things like J W. T. Or much higher level bearer tokens to say, I know how to access this application for this life cycle for this use case and get that kind of resiliency. So it's really around having that storage. More complexity absolutely need abstraction >>layers, and you got compute. Look, leading work there. But you gotta have >>software to do it from a poor works perspective. Our products entirely software right down loans and runs using kubernetes. And so the point here is we make remarries able to run all the staple workloads out of the box using the same comment control plane, which is communities. So that's the experiences that we really want to make it so that Dev Ops teams can run anywhere close. And that's that's in some ways been part of the mix. Lisa, >>we've been covering Dev up, going back to 2010. Remember when I first was hanging around San Francisco 2008 joint was coming out the woodwork and all that early days and you look at the journey of how infrastructures code We talked about that in 2008 and now we'll get 11 years later. Look at the advancements you've been through this now The tipping point. It's just seems like this wave is big and people are on it. The developers air getting it. It's a modern renaissance of application developers, and the enterprises it's happening in the enterprise is not just like the nerds Tier one, the Alfa Geeks or >>the Cloud native. It's happening in the >>everyone's on board this time, and you and I have been in the trenches in the early stages of many open source projects. And I think with with kubernetes Arab reference of community earlier, I'm super proud to be running the world's largest CNC F for user group. And it's a great community, a diverse community, super smart people. One of my favorite things about working for works is we have some really smart engineers that have figured out what companies want, how to solve problems, and then we'll go creative. It'll open source projects. We created a project called autopilot, really largely because one of our customers, every who's in the G s space and who's running just incredible application. You can google it and see what the work they're doing. It's all there publicly, Onda We built, you know, we built an open source project for them to help them get the most out of kubernetes. We can say so. There's a lot of people in the community system doing that. How can we make communities better halfway make commitments, enterprise grade and not take years to do that? Like some of the other open source projects that we worked on, it took. So it's a super exciting time to be here, >>and open source is growing so fast now. I mean, just think about how these projects being structured. Maur and Maur projects are coming online and user price, but a lot more vendor driven projects to use be mostly and used, but now you have a lot of vendors who are users. So the line is blurring between Bender User in Open source is really fascinating. >>Well, you look at the look of the landscape on the C N. C f. You know the website. I mean, it's what 400 that are already on board. It's really important. >>They don't have enough speaking slasher with >>right. I know, and it's just it. It is users and vendors. Everybody's in this community together. It's one of things that makes it super exciting. And it it's how we know this is This was the right choice for us to base this on communities because that's what everybody, you guys >>are practically neighbors. So we're looking for seeing the studio. Palo Alto Eric, I want to ask you one final question on the product side. Road map. What you guys thinking As Kubernetes goes, the next level state, a lot of micro service is observe abilities becoming a key part of it, Obviously, automation, configuration management things are developing fast. State. What's the What's the road map for you guys? >>For us, it's been always about howto handle the mission critical and make that application run seamlessly. And then now we've done a lot of portability. So disaster recovery has been one of the biggest things for us is that customers are saying, How do I do a hybrid pattern back to your earlier question of running on Prem and in Public Cloud and do a d. R. Pale over into some of the things at least, is pointing out that we're announcing soon is non series autopilot in the idea, automatically managing applications scale from a volume capacity. And then we're actually going to start moving a lot more into some of the what you do with data after the life cycle in terms of backup and retention. So those are the things that everyone's been pushing us and the customers are all asking for. You >>know, I think data they were back in recovery is interesting. I think that's going to change radically. And I think we look at the trend of how yeah, data backup and recovery was built. It was built because of disruption of business, floods, our gains, data center failure. But I think the biggest disruptions ransomware that malware. So security is now a active disruptor. So it's not like it after the hey, if we ever have, ah, fire, we can always roll back. So you're infected and you're just rolling back infected code. That's a ransomware dream. That's what's going on. So I think data protection it needs to be >>redefined. What do you think? Absolutely. I think there's a notion of How do I get last week's data last month? And then oftentimes customers will say, If I have a piece of data volume and I suddenly have to delete it, I still need to have some record of that action for a long time, right? So those are the kinds of things that are happening and his crew bearnaise and everything. It gets changed. Suddenly. The important part is not what was just that one pot it becomes. How do I reconstruct everything? What action is not one thing. It's everywhere. That's right and protected all through the platform. If it was a platform decision, it's not some the cattlemen on the side. You can't be a single lap. It has to be entire solution. And it has to handle things like, Where do you come from? Where is it allowed to go? And you guys have that philosophy. We absolutely, and it's based on the enterprises that are adopting port works and saying, Hey, this is my romance. I'm basing it on Kubernetes. You're my date a partner. We make it happen. >>This speaks to your point of why the enterprise is in. The vendors jumped in this is what people care about Security. How do you solve this last mile problem? Storage. Networking. How do you plug those holes in Kubernetes? Because that is crucial to our >>personal private moment. Victory moment for me personally, was been a big fan of Cuban is absolutely, you know, for years. Then there were created, talked about one. The moments that got me that was really kind of a personal, heartfelt moment was enterprise buyer. And, you know, the whole mindset in the Enterprise has always been You gotta kill the old to bring in the new. And so there's always been that tension of a you know, the shiny new toy from Silicon Valley or whatever. You know, I'm not gonna just trash this and have a migration za paying that. But for I t, they don't want that to do that. They hate doing migrations, but with containers and kubernetes that could actually they don't to end of life to bring in the new project. They can do it on their own timetable or keep it around. So that took a lot of air out of the tension in on the I t. Side because they say great I can deal with the lifecycle management, my app on my own terms and go play with Cloud native and said to me, that's like that was to be like, Okay, there it is. That was validation. That means this Israel because now they can innovate without compromising. >>I think so. And I think some of that has been how the ecosystems embrace it, right. So now it's becoming all the vendors are saying my internal stack is also based on community. So even if you as an application owner or not realizing it, you're gonna take a B M next year and you're gonna run it and it's gonna be back by something like awesome. Lisa >>Marie Nappy Eric on Thank you for coming on Port Works Hot start of multiple cities Kubernetes big developer Project Open Source. Talking about multi cloud here at the inaugural Multi cloud conference in New York City. It's the Cube Courage of escape. 2019. I'm John Period. Thanks for watching