>>Welcome back to the big apple, everybody. The Cube's continuous coverage here of MongoDB world 2022. We're at the new Javet center. It's it's quite nice. It was built during the pandemic. I believe on top of a former bus terminal. I'm told by our next guest Tony bear, who's the principal at DB insight of data and database expert, longtime analyst, Tony. Good to see you. Thanks for coming >>On. Thanks >>For having us. You face to face >>And welcome to New York. >>Yeah. Right. >>New York is open for business. >>So, yeah. And actually, you know, it's interesting. We've been doing a lot of these events lately and, and especially the ones in Vegas, it's the first time everybody's been out, you know, face to face, not so much here, you know, people have been out and about a lot of masks >>In, >>In New York city, but, but it's good. And, and this new venue is fantastic >>Much nicer than the old Javits. >>Yeah. And I would say maybe 3000 people here. >>Yeah. Probably, but I think like most conferences right now are kind of, they're going through like a slow ramp up. And like for instance, you know, sapphires had maybe about one third, their normal turnout. So I think that you're saying like one third to one half seems to be the norm right now are still figuring out how we're, how and where we're gonna get back together. Yeah. >>I think that's about right. And, and I, but I do think that that in most of the cases that we've seen, it's exceeded people's expectations at tenants, but anyway sure. Let's talk about Mongo, very interesting company. You know, we've been kind of been watching their progression from just sort of document database and all the features and functions they're adding, you just published a piece this morning in venture beat is time for Mongo to get into analytics. Yes. You know? Yes. One of your favorite topics. Well, can they expand analytics? They seem to be doing that. Let's dig into it. Well, >>They're taking, they've been taking slow. They've been taking baby steps and there's good reason for that because first thing is an operational database. The last thing you wanna do is slow it down with very complex analytics. On the other hand, there's huge value to be had if you would, if you could, you know, turn, let's say a smart, if you can turn, let's say an operational database or a transaction database into a smart transaction database. In other words, for instance, you know, let's say if you're, you're, you're doing, you know, an eCommerce site and a customer has made an order, that's basically been out of the norm. Whether it be like, you know, good or bad, it would be nice. Basically, if at that point you could then have a next best action, which is where analytics comes in. But it's a very lightweight form of analytics. It's not gonna, it's actually, I think probably the best metaphor for this is real time credit scoring. It's not that they're doing your scoring you in real time. It's that the model has been computed offline so that when you come on in real time, it can make a smart decision. >>Got it. Okay. So, and I think it was your article where I, I wrote down some examples. Sure. Operational, you know, use cases, patient data. There's certainly retail. We had Forbes on earlier, right? Obviously, so very wide range of, of use cases for operational will, will Mongo, essentially, in your view, is it positioned to replace traditional R D BMS? >>Well, okay. That's a long that's, that's much, it's >>Sort of a loaded question, but >>That's, that's a very loaded question. I think that for certain cases, I think it will replace R D BMS, but I still, I mean, where I, where I depart from Mongo is I do not believe that they're going to replace all R D D BMSs. I think, for instance, like when you're doing financial transactions, you know, the world has been used to table, you know, you know, columns and rows and tables. That's, it's a natural form for something that's very structured like that. On the other hand, when you take a look, let's say OT data, or you're taking a look at home listings that tends to more naturally represent itself as documents. And so there's a, so it's kind of like documents are the way that let's say you normally see the world. Relational is the way that you would structure the world. >>Okay. Well, I like that. So, but I mean, in the early days, obviously, and even to this day, it's like the target for Mongo has been Oracle. Yeah. Right, right. And so, and then, you know, you talk to a lot of Oracle customers as do I sure. And they are running the most mission, critical applications in the world, and it's like banking and financial and so many. And, and, and, you know, they've kind of carved out that space, but are we, should we be rethinking the definition of, of mission critical? Is that changing? >>Well, number one, I think what we've traditionally associated mission critical systems with is our financial transaction systems and to a less, and also let's say systems that schedule operations. But the fact is there are many forms of operations where for instance, let's say you're in a social network, do you need to have that very latest update? Or, you know, basically, can you go off, let's say like, you know, a server that's eventually consistent. In other words, the, do you absolutely have, you know, it's just like when you go on Twitter, do you naturally see all the latest tweets? It's not the system's not gonna crash for that reason. Whereas let's say if you're doing it, you know, let's say an ATM banking ATM system, that system better be current. So I think there's a delineation. The fact is, is that in a social network, arguably that operational system is mission critical, but it's mission critical in a different way from a, you know, from, let's say a banking system. >>So coming back to this idea of, of this hybrid, I think, you know, I think Gartner calls it H tab hybrid, transactional analytics >>Is changed by >>The minute, right. I mean, you mentioned that in, in your article, but basically it's bringing analytics to transactions bringing those, those roles together. Right. Right. And you're saying with Mongo, it's, it's lightweight now take, you use two other examples in your article, my SQL heat wave. Right. I think you had a Google example as well, DB, those are, you're saying much, much heavier analytics, is that correct? Or >>I we'll put it this way. I think they're because they're coming from a relational background. And because they also are coming from companies that already have, you know, analytic database or data warehouses, if you will, that their analytic, you know, capabilities are gonna be much more fully rounded than what Mongo has at this point. It's not a criticism of a Mongo MongoDB per >>Per, is that by design though? Or ne not necessarily. Is that a function of maturity? >>I think it's function of maturity. Oh, okay. I mean, look, to a certain extent, it's also a function of design in terms of that the document model is a little, it's not impossible to basically model it for analytics, but it takes more, you know, transformation to, to decide which, you know, let's say field in that document is gonna be a column. >>Now, the big thing about some of these other, these hybrid systems is, is eliminating the need for two databases, right? Eliminating the need for, you know, complex ETL. Is, is that a value proposition that will emerge with, with Mongo in your view? >>You know, I, I mean, put it this way. I think that if you take a look at how they've, how Mongo is basically has added more function to its operations, someone talking about analytics here, for instance, adding streaming, you know, adding, adding, search, adding time series, that's a matter of like where they've eliminated the need to do, you know, transformation ETL, but that's not for analytics per se for analytics. I think through, you know, I mean through replication, there's still gonna be some transformation in terms of turning, let's say data, that's, that's formed in a document into something that's represented by columns. There is a form of transformation, you know, so that said, and Mongo is already, you know, it has some NA you know, nascent capability there, but it's all, but this is still like at a rev 1.0 level, you know, I expect a lot more >>Of so refin you, how Amazon says in the fullness of time, all workloads will be in the cloud. And we could certainly debate that. What do we mean by cloud? So, but there's a sort of analog for Mongo that I'll ask you in the fullness of time, will Mongo be in a position to replace data warehouses or data lakes? No. Or, or, or, and we know the answer is no. So that's of course, yeah. But are these two worlds on a quasi collision course? I think they >>More on a convergence course or the collision course, because number one is I said, the first principle and operational database is the last thing you wanna do is slow it down. And to do all this complex modeling that let's say that you would do in a data bricks, or very complex analytics that you would do in a snowflake that is going to get, you know, you know, no matter how much you partition the load, you know, in Atlas, and yes, you can have separate nodes. The fact is you really do not wanna burden the operational database with that. And that's not what it's meant for, but what it is meant for is, you know, can I make a smart decision on the spot? In other words, kinda like close the loop on that. And so therefore there's a, a form of lightweight analytic that you can perform in there. And actually that's also the same principle, you know, on which let's say for instance, you know, my SQL heat wave and Allo DBR based on, they're not, they're predicated on, they're not meant to replace, you know, whether it be exit data or big query, the idea there is to do more of the lightweight stuff, you know, and keep the database, you know, keep the operations, you know, >>Operating. And, but from a practitioner's standpoint, I, I, I can and should isolate you're saying that node, right. That's what they'll do. Sure. How does that affect cuz my understanding is that that the Mon Mongo specifically, but I think document databases generally will have a primary node. Right? And then you can set up secondary nodes, which then you have to think about availability, but, but would that analytic node be sort of fenced off? Is that part of the >>Well, that's actually what they're, they've already, I mean, they already laid the groundwork for it last year, by saying that you can set up separate nodes and dedicate them to analytics and what they've >>As, as a primary, >>Right? Yes, yes. For analytics and what they've added, what they're a, what they are adding this year is the fact to say like that separate node does not have to be the same instance class, you know, as, as, as, as the, >>What, what does that mean? Explain >>That in other words, it's a, you know, you could have BA you know, for instance, you could have a node for operations, that's basically very eye ops intensive, whereas you could have a node let's say for analytics that might be more compute intensive or, or more he, or, or more heavily, you know, configured with, with memory per se. And so the idea here is you can tailor in a node to the workload. So that's, you know what they're saying with, you know, and I forget what they're calling it, but the idea that you can have a different type, you can specify a different type of node, a different type of instance for the analytic node, I think is, you know, is a major step forward >>And that, and that that's enabled by the cloud and architecture. >>Of course. Yes. I mean, we're separating, compute from data is, is, is the starter. And so yeah. Then at that point you can then start to, you know, you know, to go less vanilla. I think, you know, the re you know, the, you know, the, I guess the fruition of this is going to be when they say, okay, you can run your, let's say your operational nodes, you know, dedicated, but we'll let you run your analytic nodes serverless. Can't do it yet, but I've gotta believe that's on the roadmap. >>Yeah. So seq brings a lot of overhead. So you get MQL, but now square this circle for me, cuz now you got Mago talking sequel. >>They had to start doing that some time. I mean, and I it's been a court take I've had from them from the, from the get go, which I said, I understand that you're looking at this as an alternative to SQL and that's perfectly valid, but don't deny the validity of SQL or the reason why we, you know, we need it. The fact is that you have, okay, the number, you know, according to Ty index, JavaScript is the seventh, most popular language. Most SQL follows closely behind at the ninth, most popular language you don't want to cl. And the fact is those people exist in the enterprise and they're, and they're disproportionately concentrated in analytics. I mean, you know, it's getting a little less, so now we're seeing like, you know, basically, you know, Python, the programmatic, but still, you know, a lot of sequel expertise there. It does not make, it makes no sense for Mongo to, to, to ignore or to overlook that audience. I think now they're, you know, you know, they're taking baby steps to start, you know, reaching out to them. >>It's interesting. You see it going both ways. See Oracle announces a Mongo, DB, Mongo. I mean, it's just convergence. You called it not, I love collisions, you know, >>I know it's like, because you thrive on drama and I thrive on can't. We all love each other, but you know, act. But the thing is actually, I've been, I wrote about this. I forget when I think it was like 2014 or 2016. It's when we, I was noticed I was noting basically the, you know, the rise of all these specialized databases and probably Amazon, you know, AWS is probably the best exemplar of that. I've got 15 or 16 or however, number of databases and they're all dedicated purpose. Right. But I also was, you know, basically saw that inevitably there was gonna be some overlap. It's not that all databases were gonna become one and the same we're gonna be, we're gonna become back into like the, you know, into a pan G continent or something like that. But that you're gonna have a relational database that can do JSON and, and a, and a document database that can do relational. I mean, you know, it's, to me, that's a no brainer. >>So I asked Andy Ja one time, I'd love to get your take on this, about those, you know, multiple data stores at the time. They probably had a thousand. I think they're probably up to 15 now, right? Different APIs, different S et cetera. And his response. I said, why don't you make it easier for, for customers and maybe build an abstraction or converge these? And he said, well, it's by design. What if you buy this? And, and what your thoughts are, cuz I, you know, he's a pretty straight shooter. Yeah. It's by design because it allows us as the market moves, we can move with it. And if we, if we give developers access to those low level primitives and APIs, then they can move with, with at market speed. Right. And so that again, by design, now we heard certainly Mongo poo pooing that today they didn't mention, they didn't call out Amazon. Yeah. Oracle has no compunction about specifically calling out Amazon. They do it all the time. What do you make of that? Can't Amazon have its cake and eat it too. In other words, extend some of the functionality of those specific databases without going to the Swiss army. >>I I'll put it this way. You, you kind of tapped in you're, you're sort of like, you know, killing me softly with your song there, which is that, you know, I was actually kind of went on a rant about this, actually know in, you know, come, you know, you know, my year ahead sort of out predictions. And I said, look, cloud folks, it's great that you're making individual SAS, you know, products easy to use. But now that I have to mix and match SAS products, you know, the burden of integration is on my shoulders. Start making my life easier. I think a good, you know, a good example of this would be, you know, for instance, you could take something like, you know, let's say like a Google big query. There's no reason why I can't have a piece of that that might, you know, might be paired, say, you know, say with span or something like that. >>The idea being is that if we're all working off a common, you know, common storage, we, you know, it's in cloud native, we can separate the computer engines. It means that we can use the right engine for the right part of the task. And the thing is that maybe, you know, myself as a consumer, I should not have to be choosing between big query and span. But the thing is, I should be able to say, look, I want to, you know, globally distribute database, but I also wanna do some analytics and therefore behind the scenes, you know, new microservices, it could connect the two wouldn't >>Microsoft synapse be an example of doing that. >>It should be an example. I wish I, I would love to hear more from Microsoft about this. They've been radio silent for about the past two or three years in data. You hardly hear about it, but synapse is actually those actually one of the ideas I had in mind now keep in mind that with synapse, you're not talking about, let's say, you know, I mean, it's, it's obviously a sequel data warehouse. It's not pure spark. It's basically their, it was their curated version of spark, but that's fine. But again, I would love to hear Microsoft talk more about that. They've been very quiet. >>Yeah. You, you, the intent is there to >>Simplify >>It exactly. And create an abstraction. Exactly. Yeah. They have been quiet about it. Yeah. Yeah. You would expect that, that maybe they're still trying to figure it out. So what's your prognosis from Mongo? I mean, since this company IP, you know, usually I, I tell and I tell everybody this, especially my kids, like don't buy a stock at IPO. You'll always get a better chance at a cheaper price to buy it. Yeah. And even though that was true with Mongo, you didn't have a big window. No. Like you did, for instance, with, with Facebook, certainly that's been the case with snowflake and sure. Alibaba, I mean, I name a zillion style was almost universal. Yeah. But, but since that, that, that first, you know, few months, period, this, this company has been on a roll. Right. And it, it obviously has been some volatility, but the execution has been outstanding. >>No question about that. I mean, the thing is, look what I, what I, and I'm just gonna talk on the product side on the sales side. Yeah. But on the product side, from the get go, they made a product that was easy for developers. Whereas let's say someone's giving an example, for instance, Cosmo CB, where to do certain operations. They had to go through multiple services in, you know, including Azure portal with Atlas, it's all within Atlas. So they've really, it's been kinda like design thinking from the start initially with, with the core Mongo DB, you know, you, the on premise, both this predates Atlas, I mean, part of it was that they were coming with a language that developers knew was just Javas script. The construct that they knew, which was JS on. So they started with that home core advantage, but they weren't the only ones doing that. But they did it with tooling that was very intuitive to developers that met developers, where they lived and what I give them, you know, then additional credit for is that when they went to the cloud and it wasn't an immediate thing, Atlas was not an overnight success, but they employed that same design thinking to Atlas, they made Atlas a good cloud experience. They didn't just do a lift and shift the cloud. And so that's why today basically like five or six years later, Atlas's most of their business. >>Yeah. It's what, 60% of the business now. Yeah. And then Dave, on the, on the earning scholar, maybe it wasn't Dave and somebody else in response to question said, yeah, ultimately this is the future will be be 90% of the business. I'm not gonna predict when. So my, my question is, okay, so let's call that the midterm midterm ATLA is gonna be 90% of the business with some exceptions that people just won't move to the cloud. What's next is the edge. A new opportunity is Mongo architecturally suited for the, I mean, it's certainly suited for the right, the home Depot store. Sure. You know, at the edge. Yeah. If you, if you consider that edge, which I guess it is form of edge, but how about the far edge EVs cell towers, you know, far side, real time, AI inferencing, what's the requirement there, can Mongo fit there? Any thoughts >>On that? I think the AI and the inferencing stuff is interesting. It's something which really Mongo has not tackled yet. I think we take the same principle, which is the lightweight stuff. In other words, you'll say, do let's say a classification or a prediction or some sort of prescriptive action in other words, where you're not doing some convolution, neural networking and trying to do like, you know, text, text to voice or, or, or vice versa. Well, you're not trying to do all that really fancy stuff. I think that's, you know, if you're keeping it SIM you know, kinda like the kiss principle, I think that's very much within Mongo's future. I think with the realm they have, they basically have the infrastructure to go out to the edge. I think with the fact that they've embraced GraphQL has also made them a lot more extensible. So I think they certainly do have, you know, I, I do see the edge as being, you know, you know, in, in, you know, in their, in their pathway. I do see basically lightweight analytics and lightweight, let's say machine learning definitely in their >>Future. And, but, and they would, would you agree that they're in a better position to tap that opportunity than say a snowflake or an Oracle now maybe M and a can change that. R D can maybe change that, but fundamentally from an architectural standpoint yeah. Are they in a better position? >>Good question. I think that that Mongo snowflake by virtual fact, I mean that they've been all, you know, all cloud start off with, I think makes it more difficult, not impossible to move out to the edge, but it means that, and I, and know, and I, and I said, they're really starting to making some tentative moves in that direction. I'm looking forward to next week to, you know, seeing what, you know, hearing what we're gonna, what they're gonna be saying about that. But I do think, right. You know, you know, to answer your question directly, I'd say like right now, I'd say Mongo probably has a, you know, has a head start there. >>I'm losing track of time. I could go forever with you. Tony bear DB insight with tons of insights. Thanks so much for coming back with. >>It's only one insight insight, Dave. Good to see you again. All >>Right. Good to see you. Thank you. Okay. Keep it right there. Right back at the Java center, Mongo DB world 2022, you're watching the cube.

>>Hello and welcome today's cube presentation of eight of us startup showcase. I'm john for your host highlighting the hottest companies and devops data analytics and cloud management lisa martin and David want are here to kick it off. We've got a great program for you again. This is our, our new community event model where we're doing every quarter, we have every new episode, this is quarter three this year or episode three, season one of the hottest cloud startups and we're gonna be featured. Then we're gonna do a keynote package and then 15 countries will present their story, Go check them out and then have a closing keynote with a practitioner and we've got some great lineups, lisa Dave, great to see you. Thanks for joining me. >>Hey guys, >>great to be here. So David got to ask you, you know, back in events last night we're at the 14 it's event where they had the golf PGA championship with the cube Now we got the hybrid model, This is the new normal. We're in, we got these great companies were showcasing them. What's your take? >>Well, you're right. I mean, I think there's a combination of things. We're seeing some live shows. We saw what we did with at mobile world Congress. We did the show with AWS storage day where it was, we were at the spheres, there was no, there was a live audience, but they weren't there physically. It was just virtual and yeah, so, and I just got pained about reinvent. Hey Dave, you gotta make your flights. So I'm making my flights >>were gonna be at the amazon web services, public sector summit next week. At least a lot, a lot of cloud convergence going on here. We got many companies being featured here that we spoke with the Ceo and their top people cloud management, devops data, nelson security. Really cutting edge companies, >>yes, cutting edge companies who are all focused on acceleration. We've talked about the acceleration of digital transformation the last 18 months and we've seen a tremendous amount of acceleration in innovation with what these startups are doing. We've talked to like you said, there's, there's C suite, we've also talked to their customers about how they are innovating so quickly with this hybrid environment, this remote work and we've talked a lot about security in the last week or so. You mentioned that we were at Fortinet cybersecurity skills gap. What some of these companies are doing with automation for example, to help shorten that gap, which is a big opportunity >>for the job market. Great stuff. Dave so the format of this event, you're going to have a fireside chat with the practitioner, we'd like to end these programs with a great experienced practitioner cutting edge in data february. The beginning lisa are gonna be kicking off with of course Jeff bar to give us the update on what's going on AWS and then a special presentation from Emily Freeman who is the author of devops for dummies, she's introducing new content. The revolution in devops devops two point oh and of course jerry Chen from Greylock cube alumni is going to come on and talk about his new thesis castles in the cloud creating moats at cloud scale. We've got a great lineup of people and so the front ends can be great. Dave give us a little preview of what people can expect at the end of the fireside chat. >>Well at the highest level john I've always said we're entering that sort of third great wave of cloud. First wave was experimentation. The second big wave was migration. The third wave of integration, Deep business integration and what you're >>going to hear from >>Hello Fresh today is how they like many companies that started early last decade. They started with an on prem Hadoop system and then of course we all know what happened is S three essentially took the knees out from, from the on prem Hadoop market lowered costs, brought things into the cloud and what Hello Fresh is doing is they're transforming from that legacy Hadoop system into its running on AWS but into a data mess, you know, it's a passionate topic of mine. Hello Fresh was scaling they realized that they couldn't keep up so they had to rethink their entire data architecture and they built it around data mesh Clements key and christoph Soewandi gonna explain how they actually did that are on a journey or decentralized data >>measure it and your posts have been awesome on data measure. We get a lot of traction. Certainly you're breaking analysis for the folks watching check out David Landes, Breaking analysis every week, highlighting the cutting edge trends in tech Dave. We're gonna see you later, lisa and I are gonna be here in the morning talking about with Emily. We got Jeff Barr teed up. Dave. Thanks for coming on. Looking forward to fireside chat lisa. We'll see you when Emily comes back on. But we're gonna go to Jeff bar right now for Dave and I are gonna interview Jeff. Mm >>Hey Jeff, >>here he is. Hey, how are you? How's it going really well. So I gotta ask you, the reinvent is on, everyone wants to know that's happening right. We're good with Reinvent. >>Reinvent is happening. I've got my hotel and actually listening today, if I just remembered, I still need to actually book my flights. I've got my to do list on my desk and I do need to get my >>flights. Uh, >>really looking forward >>to it. I can't wait to see the all the announcements and blog posts. We're gonna, we're gonna hear from jerry Chen later. I love the after on our next event. Get your reaction to this castle and castles in the cloud where competitive advantages can be built in the cloud. We're seeing examples of that. But first I gotta ask you give us an update of what's going on. The ap and ecosystem has been an incredible uh, celebration these past couple weeks, >>so, so a lot of different things happening and the interesting thing to me is that as part of my job, I often think that I'm effectively living in the future because I get to see all this really cool stuff that we're building just a little bit before our customers get to, and so I'm always thinking okay, here I am now, and what's the world going to be like in a couple of weeks to a month or two when these launches? I'm working on actually get out the door and that, that's always really, really fun, just kind of getting that, that little edge into where we're going, but this year was a little interesting because we had to really significant birthdays, we had the 15 year anniversary of both EC two and S three and we're so focused on innovating and moving forward, that it's actually pretty rare for us at Aws to look back and say, wow, we've actually done all these amazing things in in the last 15 years, >>you know, it's kind of cool Jeff, if I may is is, you know, of course in the early days everybody said, well, a place for startup is a W. S and now the great thing about the startup showcases, we're seeing the startups that >>are >>very near, or some of them have even reached escape velocity, so they're not, they're not tiny little companies anymore, they're in their transforming their respective industries, >>they really are and I think that as they start ups grow, they really start to lean into the power of the cloud. They as they start to think, okay, we've we've got our basic infrastructure in place, we've got, we were serving data, we're serving up a few customers, everything is actually working pretty well for us. We've got our fundamental model proven out now, we can invest in publicity and marketing and scaling and but they don't have to think about what's happening behind the scenes. They just if they've got their auto scaling or if they're survivalists, the infrastructure simply grows to meet their demand and it's it's just a lot less things that they have to worry about. They can focus on the fun part of their business which is actually listening to customers and building up an awesome business >>Jeff as you guys are putting together all the big pre reinvented, knows a lot of stuff that goes on prior as well and they say all the big good stuff to reinvent. But you start to see some themes emerged this year. One of them is modernization of applications, the speed of application development in the cloud with the cloud scale devops personas, whatever persona you want to talk about but basically speed the speed of of the app developers where other departments have been slowing things down, I won't say name names, but security group and I t I mean I shouldn't have said that but only kidding but no but seriously people want in minutes and seconds now not days or weeks. You know whether it's policy. What are some of the trends that you're seeing around this this year as we get into some of the new stuff coming out >>So Dave customers really do want speed and for we've actually encapsulate this for a long time in amazon in what we call the bias for action leadership principle >>where >>we just need to jump in and move forward and and make things happen. A lot of customers look at that and they say yes this is great. We need to have the same bias fraction. Some do. Some are still trying to figure out exactly how to put it into play. And they absolutely for sure need to pay attention to security. They need to respect the past and make sure that whatever they're doing is in line with I. T. But they do want to move forward. And the interesting thing that I see time and time again is it's not simply about let's adopt a new technology. It's how do we >>how do we keep our workforce >>engaged? How do we make sure that they've got the right training? How do we bring our our I. T. Team along for this. Hopefully new and fun and exciting journey where they get to learn some interesting new technologies they've got all this very much accumulated business knowledge they still want to put to use, maybe they're a little bit apprehensive about something brand new and they hear about the cloud, but there by and large, they really want to move forward. They just need a little bit of >>help to make it happen >>real good guys. One of the things you're gonna hear today, we're talking about speed traditionally going fast. Oftentimes you meant you have to sacrifice some things on quality and what you're going to hear from some of the startups today is how they're addressing that to automation and modern devoPS technologies and sort of rethinking that whole application development approach. That's something I'm really excited to see organization is beginning to adopt so they don't have to make that tradeoff anymore. >>Yeah, I would >>never want to see someone >>sacrifice quality, >>but I do think that iterating very quickly and using the best of devoPS principles to be able to iterate incredibly quickly and get that first launch out there and then listen with both ears just >>as much >>as you can, Everything. You hear iterate really quickly to meet those needs in, in hours and days, not months, quarters or years. >>Great stuff. Chef and a lot of the companies were featuring here in the startup showcase represent that new kind of thinking, um, systems thinking as well as you know, the cloud scale and again and it's finally here, the revolution of deVOps is going to the next generation and uh, we're excited to have Emily Freeman who's going to come on and give a little preview for her new talk on this revolution. So Jeff, thank you for coming on, appreciate you sharing the update here on the cube. Happy >>to be. I'm actually really looking forward to hearing from Emily. >>Yeah, it's great. Great. Looking forward to the talk. Brand new Premier, Okay, uh, lisa martin, Emily Freeman is here. She's ready to come in and we're going to preview her lightning talk Emily. Um, thanks for coming on, we really appreciate you coming on really, this is about to talk around deVOPS next gen and I think lisa this is one of those things we've been, we've been discussing with all the companies. It's a new kind of thinking it's a revolution, it's a systems mindset, you're starting to see the connections there she is. Emily, Thanks for coming. I appreciate it. >>Thank you for having me. So your teaser video >>was amazing. Um, you know, that little secret radical idea, something completely different. Um, you gotta talk coming up, what's the premise behind this revolution, you know, these tying together architecture, development, automation deployment, operating altogether. >>Yes, well, we have traditionally always used the sclc, which is the software delivery life cycle. Um, and it is a straight linear process that has actually been around since the sixties, which is wild to me um, and really originated in manufacturing. Um, and as much as I love the Toyota production system and how much it has shown up in devops as a sort of inspiration on how to run things better. We are not making cars, we are making software and I think we have to use different approaches and create a sort of model that better reflects our modern software development process. >>It's a bold idea and looking forward to the talk and as motivation. I went into my basement and dusted off all my books from college in the 80s and the sea estimates it was waterfall. It was software development life cycle. They trained us to think this way and it came from the mainframe people. It was like, it's old school, like really, really old and it really hasn't been updated. Where's the motivation? I actually cloud is kind of converging everything together. We see that, but you kind of hit on this persona thing. Where did that come from this persona? Because you know, people want to put people in buckets release engineer. I mean, where's that motivation coming from? >>Yes, you're absolutely right that it came from the mainframes. I think, you know, waterfall is necessary when you're using a punch card or mag tape to load things onto a mainframe, but we don't exist in that world anymore. Thank goodness. And um, yes, so we, we use personas all the time in tech, you know, even to register, well not actually to register for this event, but a lot events. A lot of events, you have to click that drop down. Right. Are you a developer? Are you a manager, whatever? And the thing is personas are immutable in my opinion. I was a developer. I will always identify as a developer despite playing a lot of different roles and doing a lot of different jobs. Uh, and this can vary throughout the day. Right. You might have someone who has a title of software architect who ends up helping someone pair program or develop or test or deploy. Um, and so we wear a lot of hats day to day and I think our discussions around roles would be a better, um, certainly a better approach than personas >>lease. And I've been discussing with many of these companies around the roles and we're hearing from them directly and they're finding out that people have, they're mixing and matching on teams. So you're, you're an S R E on one team and you're doing something on another team where the workflows and the workloads defined the team formation. So this is a cultural discussion. >>It absolutely is. Yes. I think it is a cultural discussion and it really comes to the heart of devops, right? It's people process. And then tools deVOps has always been about culture and making sure that developers have all the tools they need to be productive and honestly happy. What good is all of this? If developing software isn't a joyful experience. Well, >>I got to ask you, I got you here obviously with server list and functions just starting to see this kind of this next gen. And we're gonna hear from jerry Chen, who's a Greylock VC who's going to talk about castles in the clouds, where he's discussing the moats that could be created with a competitive advantage in cloud scale. And I think he points to the snowflakes of the world. You're starting to see this new thing happening. This is devops 2.0, this is the revolution. Is this kind of where you see the same vision of your talk? >>Yes, so DeVOps created 2000 and 8, 2000 and nine, totally different ecosystem in the world we were living in, you know, we didn't have things like surveillance and containers, we didn't have this sort of default distributed nature, certainly not the cloud. Uh and so I'm very excited for jerry's talk. I'm curious to hear more about these moz. I think it's fascinating. Um but yeah, you're seeing different companies use different tools and processes to accelerate their delivery and that is the competitive advantage. How can we figure out how to utilize these tools in the most efficient way possible. >>Thank you for coming and giving us a preview. Let's now go to your lightning keynote talk. Fresh content. Premier of this revolution in Devops and the Freemans Talk, we'll go there now. >>Hi, I'm Emily Freeman, I'm the author of devops for dummies and the curator of 97 things every cloud engineer should know. I am thrilled to be here with you all today. I am really excited to share with you a kind of a wild idea, a complete re imagining of the S DLC and I want to be clear, I need your feedback. I want to know what you think of this. You can always find me on twitter at editing. Emily, most of my work centers around deVOps and I really can't overstate what an impact the concept of deVOPS has had on this industry in many ways it built on the foundation of Agile to become a default a standard we all reach for in our everyday work. When devops surfaced as an idea in 2008, the tech industry was in a vastly different space. AWS was an infancy offering only a handful of services. Azure and G C P didn't exist yet. The majority's majority of companies maintained their own infrastructure. Developers wrote code and relied on sys admins to deploy new code at scheduled intervals. Sometimes months apart, container technology hadn't been invented applications adhered to a monolithic architecture, databases were almost exclusively relational and serverless wasn't even a concept. Everything from the application to the engineers was centralized. Our current ecosystem couldn't be more different. Software is still hard, don't get me wrong, but we continue to find novel solutions to consistently difficult, persistent problems. Now, some of these end up being a sort of rebranding of old ideas, but others are a unique and clever take to abstracting complexity or automating toil or perhaps most important, rethinking challenging the very premises we have accepted as Cannon for years, if not decades. In the years since deVOps attempted to answer the critical conflict between developers and operations, engineers, deVOps has become a catch all term and there have been a number of derivative works. Devops has come to mean 5000 different things to 5000 different people. For some, it can be distilled to continuous integration and continuous delivery or C I C D. For others, it's simply deploying code more frequently, perhaps adding a smattering of tests for others. Still, its organizational, they've added a platform team, perhaps even a questionably named DEVOPS team or have created an engineering structure that focuses on a separation of concerns. Leaving feature teams to manage the development, deployment, security and maintenance of their siloed services, say, whatever the interpretation, what's important is that there isn't a universally accepted standard. Well, what deVOPS is or what it looks like an execution, it's a philosophy more than anything else. A framework people can utilize to configure and customize their specific circumstances to modern development practices. The characteristic of deVOPS that I think we can all agree on though, is that an attempted to capture the challenges of the entire software development process. It's that broad umbrella, that holistic view that I think we need to breathe life into again, The challenge we face is that DeVOps isn't increasingly outmoded solution to a previous problem developers now face. Cultural and technical challenge is far greater than how to more quickly deploy a monolithic application. Cloud native is the future the next collection of default development decisions and one the deVOPS story can't absorb in its current form. I believe the era of deVOPS is waning and in this moment as the sun sets on deVOPS, we have a unique opportunity to rethink rebuild free platform. Even now, I don't have a crystal ball. That would be very handy. I'm not completely certain with the next decade of tech looks like and I can't write this story alone. I need you but I have some ideas that can get the conversation started, I believe to build on what was we have to throw away assumptions that we've taken for granted all this time in order to move forward. We must first step back. Mhm. The software or systems development life cycle, what we call the S. D. L. C. has been in use since the 1960s and it's remained more or less the same since before color television and the touch tone phone. Over the last 60 or so odd years we've made tweaks, slight adjustments, massaged it. The stages or steps are always a little different with agile and deVOps we sort of looped it into a circle and then an infinity loop we've added pretty colors. But the sclc is more or less the same and it has become an assumption. We don't even think about it anymore, universally adopted constructs like the sclc have an unspoken permanence. They feel as if they have always been and always will be. I think the impact of that is even more potent. If you were born after a construct was popularized. Nearly everything around us is a construct, a model, an artifact of a human idea. The chair you're sitting in the desk, you work at the mug from which you drink coffee or sometimes wine, buildings, toilets, plumbing, roads, cars, art, computers, everything. The sclc is a remnant an artifact of a previous era and I think we should throw it away or perhaps more accurately replace it, replace it with something that better reflects the actual nature of our work. A linear, single threaded model designed for the manufacturer of material goods cannot possibly capture the distributed complexity of modern socio technical systems. It just can't. Mhm. And these two ideas aren't mutually exclusive that the sclc was industry changing, valuable and extraordinarily impactful and that it's time for something new. I believe we are strong enough to hold these two ideas at the same time, showing respect for the past while envisioning the future. Now, I don't know about you, I've never had a software project goes smoothly in one go. No matter how small. Even if I'm the only person working on it and committing directly to master software development is chaos. It's a study and entropy and it is not getting any more simple. The model with which we think and talk about software development must capture the multithreaded, non sequential nature of our work. It should embody the roles engineers take on and the considerations they make along the way. It should build on the foundations of agile and devops and represent the iterative nature of continuous innovation. Now, when I was thinking about this, I was inspired by ideas like extreme programming and the spiral model. I I wanted something that would have layers, threads, even a way of visually representing multiple processes happening in parallel. And what I settled on is the revolution model. I believe the visualization of revolution is capable of capturing the pivotal moments of any software scenario. And I'm going to dive into all the discrete elements. But I want to give you a moment to have a first impression, to absorb my idea. I call it revolution because well for one it revolves, it's circular shape reflects the continuous and iterative nature of our work, but also because it is revolutionary. I am challenging a 60 year old model that is embedded into our daily language. I don't expect Gartner to build a magic quadrant around this tomorrow, but that would be super cool. And you should call me my mission with. This is to challenge the status quo to create a model that I think more accurately reflects the complexity of modern cloud native software development. The revolution model is constructed of five concentric circles describing the critical roles of software development architect. Ng development, automating, deploying and operating intersecting each loop are six spokes that describe the production considerations every engineer has to consider throughout any engineering work and that's test, ability, secure ability, reliability, observe ability, flexibility and scalability. The considerations listed are not all encompassing. There are of course things not explicitly included. I figured if I put 20 spokes, some of us, including myself, might feel a little overwhelmed. So let's dive into each element in this model. We have long used personas as the default way to do divide audiences and tailor messages to group people. Every company in the world right now is repeating the mantra of developers, developers, developers but personas have always bugged me a bit because this approach typically either oversimplifies someone's career are needlessly complicated. Few people fit cleanly and completely into persona based buckets like developers and operations anymore. The lines have gotten fuzzy on the other hand, I don't think we need to specifically tailor messages as to call out the difference between a devops engineer and a release engineer or a security administrator versus a security engineer but perhaps most critically, I believe personas are immutable. A persona is wholly dependent on how someone identifies themselves. It's intrinsic not extrinsic. Their titles may change their jobs may differ, but they're probably still selecting the same persona on that ubiquitous drop down. We all have to choose from when registering for an event. Probably this one too. I I was a developer and I will always identify as a developer despite doing a ton of work in areas like devops and Ai Ops and Deverell in my heart. I'm a developer I think about problems from that perspective. First it influences my thinking and my approach roles are very different. Roles are temporary, inconsistent, constantly fluctuating. If I were an actress, the parts I would play would be lengthy and varied, but the persona I would identify as would remain an actress and artist lesbian. Your work isn't confined to a single set of skills. It may have been a decade ago, but it is not today in any given week or sprint, you may play the role of an architect. Thinking about how to design a feature or service, developer building out code or fixing a bug and on automation engineer, looking at how to improve manual processes. We often refer to as soil release engineer, deploying code to different environments or releasing it to customers or in operations. Engineer ensuring an application functions inconsistent expected ways and no matter what role we play. We have to consider a number of issues. The first is test ability. All software systems require testing to assure architects that designs work developers, the code works operators, that infrastructure is running as expected and engineers of all disciplines that code changes won't bring down the whole system testing in its many forms is what enables systems to be durable and have longevity. It's what reassures engineers that changes won't impact current functionality. A system without tests is a disaster waiting to happen, which is why test ability is first among equals at this particular roundtable. Security is everyone's responsibility. But if you understand how to design and execute secure systems, I struggle with this security incidents for the most part are high impact, low probability events. The really big disasters, the one that the ones that end up on the news and get us all free credit reporting for a year. They don't happen super frequently and then goodness because you know that there are endless small vulnerabilities lurking in our systems. Security is something we all know we should dedicate time to but often don't make time for. And let's be honest, it's hard and complicated and a little scary def sec apps. The first derivative of deVOPS asked engineers to move security left this approach. Mint security was a consideration early in the process, not something that would block release at the last moment. This is also the consideration under which I'm putting compliance and governance well not perfectly aligned. I figure all the things you have to call lawyers for should just live together. I'm kidding. But in all seriousness, these three concepts are really about risk management, identity, data, authorization. It doesn't really matter what specific issue you're speaking about, the question is who has access to what win and how and that is everyone's responsibility at every stage site reliability engineering or sorry, is a discipline job and approach for good reason. It is absolutely critical that applications and services work as expected. Most of the time. That said, availability is often mistakenly treated as a synonym for reliability. Instead, it's a single aspect of the concept if a system is available but customer data is inaccurate or out of sync. The system is not reliable, reliability has five key components, availability, latency, throughput. Fidelity and durability, reliability is the end result. But resiliency for me is the journey the action engineers can take to improve reliability, observe ability is the ability to have insight into an application or system. It's the combination of telemetry and monitoring and alerting available to engineers and leadership. There's an aspect of observe ability that overlaps with reliability, but the purpose of observe ability isn't just to maintain a reliable system though, that is of course important. It is the capacity for engineers working on a system to have visibility into the inner workings of that system. The concept of observe ability actually originates and linear dynamic systems. It's defined as how well internal states of a system can be understood based on information about its external outputs. If it is critical when companies move systems to the cloud or utilize managed services that they don't lose visibility and confidence in their systems. The shared responsibility model of cloud storage compute and managed services require that engineering teams be able to quickly be alerted to identify and remediate issues as they arise. Flexible systems are capable of adapting to meet the ever changing needs of the customer and the market segment, flexible code bases absorb new code smoothly. Embody a clean separation of concerns. Are partitioned into small components or classes and architected to enable the now as well as the next inflexible systems. Change dependencies are reduced or eliminated. Database schemas accommodate change well components, communicate via a standardized and well documented A. P. I. The only thing constant in our industry is change and every role we play, creating flexibility and solutions that can be flexible that will grow as the applications grow is absolutely critical. Finally, scalability scalability refers to more than a system's ability to scale for additional load. It implies growth scalability and the revolution model carries the continuous innovation of a team and the byproducts of that growth within a system. For me, scalability is the most human of the considerations. It requires each of us in our various roles to consider everyone around us, our customers who use the system or rely on its services, our colleagues current and future with whom we collaborate and even our future selves. Mhm. Software development isn't a straight line, nor is it a perfect loop. It is an ever changing complex dance. There are twirls and pivots and difficult spins forward and backward. Engineers move in parallel, creating truly magnificent pieces of art. We need a modern model for this modern era and I believe this is just the revolution to get us started. Thank you so much for having me. >>Hey, we're back here. Live in the keynote studio. I'm john for your host here with lisa martin. David lot is getting ready for the fireside chat ending keynote with the practitioner. Hello! Fresh without data mesh lisa Emily is amazing. The funky artwork there. She's amazing with the talk. I was mesmerized. It was impressive. >>The revolution of devops and the creative element was a really nice surprise there. But I love what she's doing. She's challenging the status quo. If we've learned nothing in the last year and a half, We need to challenge the status quo. A model from the 1960s that is no longer linear. What she's doing is revolutionary. >>And we hear this all the time. All the cube interviews we do is that you're seeing the leaders, the SVP's of engineering or these departments where there's new new people coming in that are engineering or developers, they're playing multiple roles. It's almost a multidisciplinary aspect where you know, it's like going into in and out burger in the fryer later and then you're doing the grill, you're doing the cashier, people are changing roles or an architect, their test release all in one no longer departmental, slow siloed groups. >>She brought up a great point about persona is that we no longer fit into these buckets. That the changing roles. It's really the driver of how we should be looking at this. >>I think I'm really impressed, really bold idea, no brainer as far as I'm concerned, I think one of the things and then the comments were off the charts in a lot of young people come from discord servers. We had a good traction over there but they're all like learning. Then you have the experience, people saying this is definitely has happened and happening. The dominoes are falling and they're falling in the direction of modernization. That's the key trend speed. >>Absolutely with speed. But the way that Emily is presenting it is not in a brash bold, but it's in a way that makes great sense. The way that she creatively visually lined out what she was talking about Is amenable to the folks that have been doing this for since the 60s and the new folks now to really look at this from a different >>lens and I think she's a great setup on that lightning top of the 15 companies we got because you think about sis dig harness. I white sourced flamingo hacker one send out, I oh, okay. Thought spot rock set Sarah Ops ramp and Ops Monte cloud apps, sani all are doing modern stuff and we talked to them and they're all on this new wave, this monster wave coming. What's your observation when you talk to these companies? >>They are, it was great. I got to talk with eight of the 15 and the amount of acceleration of innovation that they've done in the last 18 months is phenomenal obviously with the power and the fuel and the brand reputation of aws but really what they're all facilitating cultural shift when we think of devoPS and the security folks. Um, there's a lot of work going on with ai to an automation to really kind of enabled to develop the develops folks to be in control of the process and not have to be security experts but ensuring that the security is baked in shifting >>left. We saw that the chat room was really active on the security side and one of the things I noticed was not just shift left but the other groups, the security groups and the theme of cultural, I won't say war but collision cultural shift that's happening between the groups is interesting because you have this new devops persona has been around Emily put it out for a while. But now it's going to the next level. There's new revolutions about a mindset, a systems mindset. It's a thinking and you start to see the new young companies coming out being funded by the gray locks of the world who are now like not going to be given the we lost the top three clouds one, everything. there's new business models and new technical architecture in the cloud and that's gonna be jerry Chen talk coming up next is going to be castles in the clouds because jerry chant always talked about moats, competitive advantage and how moats are key to success to guard the castle. And then we always joke, there's no more moz because the cloud has killed all the boats. But now the motor in the cloud, the castles are in the cloud, not on the ground. So very interesting thought provoking. But he's got data and if you look at the successful companies like the snowflakes of the world, you're starting to see these new formations of this new layer of innovation where companies are growing rapidly, 98 unicorns now in the cloud. Unbelievable, >>wow, that's a lot. One of the things you mentioned, there's competitive advantage and these startups are all fueled by that they know that there are other companies in the rear view mirror right behind them. If they're not able to work as quickly and as flexibly as a competitor, they have to have that speed that time to market that time to value. It was absolutely critical. And that's one of the things I think thematically that I saw along the eighth sort of that I talked to is that time to value is absolutely table stakes. >>Well, I'm looking forward to talking to jerry chan because we've talked on the queue before about this whole idea of What happens when winner takes most would mean the top 3, 4 cloud players. What happens? And we were talking about that and saying, if you have a model where an ecosystem can develop, what does that look like and back in 2013, 2014, 2015, no one really had an answer. Jerry was the only BC. He really nailed it with this castles in the cloud. He nailed the idea that this is going to happen. And so I think, you know, we'll look back at the tape or the videos from the cube, we'll find those cuts. But we were talking about this then we were pontificating and riffing on the fact that there's going to be new winners and they're gonna look different as Andy Jassy always says in the cube you have to be misunderstood if you're really going to make something happen. Most of the most successful companies are misunderstood. Not anymore. The cloud scales there. And that's what's exciting about all this. >>It is exciting that the scale is there, the appetite is there the appetite to challenge the status quo, which is right now in this economic and dynamic market that we're living in is there's nothing better. >>One of the things that's come up and and that's just real quick before we bring jerry in is automation has been insecurity, absolutely security's been in every conversation, but automation is now so hot in the sense of it's real and it's becoming part of all the design decisions. How can we automate can we automate faster where the keys to automation? Is that having the right data, What data is available? So I think the idea of automation and Ai are driving all the change and that's to me is what these new companies represent this modern error where AI is built into the outcome and the apps and all that infrastructure. So it's super exciting. Um, let's check in, we got jerry Chen line at least a great. We're gonna come back after jerry and then kick off the day. Let's bring in jerry Chen from Greylock is he here? Let's bring him in there. He is. >>Hey john good to see you. >>Hey, congratulations on an amazing talk and thesis on the castles on the cloud. Thanks for coming on. >>All right, Well thanks for reading it. Um, always were being put a piece of workout out either. Not sure what the responses, but it seemed to resonate with a bunch of developers, founders, investors and folks like yourself. So smart people seem to gravitate to us. So thank you very much. >>Well, one of the benefits of doing the Cube for 11 years, Jerry's we have videotape of many, many people talking about what the future will hold. You kind of are on this early, it wasn't called castles in the cloud, but you were all I was, we had many conversations were kind of connecting the dots in real time. But you've been on this for a while. It's great to see the work. I really think you nailed this. I think you're absolutely on point here. So let's get into it. What is castles in the cloud? New research to come out from Greylock that you spearheaded? It's collaborative effort, but you've got data behind it. Give a quick overview of what is castle the cloud, the new modes of competitive advantage for companies. >>Yeah, it's as a group project that our team put together but basically john the question is, how do you win in the cloud? Remember the conversation we had eight years ago when amazon re event was holy cow, Like can you compete with them? Like is it a winner? Take all? Winner take most And if it is winner take most, where are the white spaces for Some starts to to emerge and clearly the past eight years in the cloud this journey, we've seen big companies, data breaks, snowflakes, elastic Mongo data robot. And so um they spotted the question is, you know, why are the castles in the cloud? The big three cloud providers, Amazon google and Azure winning. You know, what advantage do they have? And then given their modes of scale network effects, how can you as a startup win? And so look, there are 500 plus services between all three cloud vendors, but there are like 500 plus um startups competing gets a cloud vendors and there's like almost 100 unicorn of private companies competing successfully against the cloud vendors, including public companies. So like Alaska, Mongo Snowflake. No data breaks. Not public yet. Hashtag or not public yet. These are some examples of the names that I think are winning and watch this space because you see more of these guys storm the castle if you will. >>Yeah. And you know one of the things that's a funny metaphor because it has many different implications. One, as we talk about security, the perimeter of the gates, the moats being on land. But now you're in the cloud, you have also different security paradigm. You have a different um, new kinds of services that are coming on board faster than ever before. Not just from the cloud players but From companies contributing into the ecosystem. So the combination of the big three making the market the main markets you, I think you call 31 markets that we know of that probably maybe more. And then you have this notion of a sub market, which means that there's like we used to call it white space back in the day, remember how many whites? Where's the white space? I mean if you're in the cloud, there's like a zillion white spaces. So talk about this sub market dynamic between markets and that are being enabled by the cloud players and how these sub markets play into it. >>Sure. So first, the first problem was what we did. We downloaded all the services for the big three clowns. Right? And you know what as recalls a database or database service like a document DB and amazon is like Cosmo dB and Azure. So first thing first is we had to like look at all three cloud providers and you? Re categorize all the services almost 500 Apples, Apples, Apples # one number two is you look at all these markets or sub markets and said, okay, how can we cluster these services into things that you know you and I can rock right. That's what amazon Azure and google think about. It is very different and the beauty of the cloud is this kind of fat long tail of services for developers. So instead of like oracle is a single database for all your needs. They're like 20 or 30 different databases from time series um analytics, databases. We're talking rocks at later today. Right. Um uh, document databases like Mongo search database like elastic. And so what happens is there's not one giant market like databases, there's a database market And 30, 40 sub markets that serve the needs developers. So the Great News is cloud has reduced the cost and create something that new for developers. Um also the good news is for a start up you can find plenty of white speeds solving a pain point, very specific to a different type of problem >>and you can sequence up to power law to this. I love the power of a metaphor, you know, used to be a very thin neck note no torso and then a long tail. But now as you're pointing out this expansion of the fat tail of services, but also there's big tam's and markets available at the top of the power law where you see coming like snowflake essentially take on the data warehousing market by basically sitting on amazon re factoring with new services and then getting a flywheel completely changing the economic unit economics completely changing the consumption model completely changing the value proposition >>literally you >>get Snowflake has created like a storm, create a hole, that mode or that castle wall against red shift. Then companies like rock set do your real time analytics is Russian right behind snowflakes saying, hey snowflake is great for data warehouse but it's not fast enough for real time analytics. Let me give you something new to your, to your parallel argument. Even the big optic snowflake have created kind of a wake behind them that created even more white space for Gaza rock set. So that's exciting for guys like me and >>you. And then also as we were talking about our last episode two or quarter two of our showcase. Um, from a VC came on, it's like the old shelf where you didn't know if a company's successful until they had to return the inventory now with cloud you if you're not successful, you know it right away. It's like there's no debate. Like, I mean you're either winning or not. This is like that's so instrumented so a company can have a good better mousetrap and win and fill the white space and then move up. >>It goes both ways. The cloud vendor, the big three amazon google and Azure for sure. They instrument their own class. They know john which ecosystem partners doing well in which ecosystems doing poorly and they hear from the customers exactly what they want. So it goes both ways they can weaponize that. And just as well as you started to weaponize that info >>and that's the big argument of do that snowflake still pays the amazon bills. They're still there. So again, repatriation comes back, That's a big conversation that's come up. What's your quick take on that? Because if you're gonna have a castle in the cloud, then you're gonna bring it back to land. I mean, what's that dynamic? Where do you see that compete? Because on one hand is innovation. The other ones maybe cost efficiency. Is that a growth indicator slow down? What's your view on the movement from and to the cloud? >>I think there's probably three forces you're finding here. One is the cost advantage in the scale advantage of cloud so that I think has been going for the past eight years, there's a repatriation movement for a certain subset of customers, I think for cost purposes makes sense. I think that's a tiny handful that believe they can actually run things better than a cloud. The third thing we're seeing around repatriation is not necessary against cloud, but you're gonna see more decentralized clouds and things pushed to the edge. Right? So you look at companies like Cloudflare Fastly or a company that we're investing in Cato networks. All ideas focus on secure access at the edge. And so I think that's not the repatriation of my own data center, which is kind of a disaggregated of cloud from one giant monolithic cloud, like AWS east or like a google region in europe to multiple smaller clouds for governance purposes, security purposes or legacy purposes. >>So I'm looking at my notes here, looking down on the screen here for this to read this because it's uh to cut and paste from your thesis on the cloud. The excellent cloud. The of the $38 billion invested this quarter. Um Ai and ml number one, um analytics. Number two, security number three. Actually, security number one. But you can see the bubbles here. So all those are data problems I need to ask you. I see data is hot data as intellectual property. How do you look at that? Because we've been reporting on this and we just started the cube conversation around workflows as intellectual property. If you have scale and your motives in the cloud. You could argue that data and the workflows around those data streams is intellectual property. It's a protocol >>I believe both are. And they just kind of go hand in hand like peanut butter and jelly. Right? So data for sure. I. P. So if you know people talk about days in the oil, the new resource. That's largely true because of powers a bunch. But the workflow to your point john is sticky because every company is a unique snowflake right? Like the process used to run the cube and your business different how we run our business. So if you can build a workflow that leverages the data, that's super sticky. So in terms of switching costs, if my work is very bespoke to your business, then I think that's competitive advantage. >>Well certainly your workflow is a lot different than the cube. You guys just a lot of billions of dollars in capital. We're talking to all the people out here jerry. Great to have you on final thought on your thesis. Where does it go from here? What's been the reaction? Uh No, you put it out there. Great love the restart. Think you're on point on this one. Where did we go from here? >>We have to follow pieces um in the near term one around, you know, deep diver on open source. So look out for that pretty soon and how that's been a powerful strategy a second. Is this kind of just aggregation of the cloud be a Blockchain and you know, decentralized apps, be edge applications. So that's in the near term two more pieces of, of deep dive we're doing. And then the goal here is to update this on a quarterly and annual basis. So we're getting submissions from founders that wanted to say, hey, you missed us or he screwed up here. We got the big cloud vendors saying, Hey jerry, we just lost his new things. So our goal here is to update this every single year and then probably do look back saying, okay, uh, where were we wrong? We're right. And then let's say the castle clouds 2022. We'll see the difference were the more unicorns were there more services were the IPO's happening. So look for some short term work from us on analytics, like around open source and clouds. And then next year we hope that all of this forward saying, Hey, you have two year, what's happening? What's changing? >>Great stuff and, and congratulations on the southern news. You guys put another half a billion dollars into early, early stage, which is your roots. Are you still doing a lot of great investments in a lot of unicorns. Congratulations that. Great luck on the team. Thanks for coming on and congratulations you nailed this one. I think I'm gonna look back and say that this is a pretty seminal piece of work here. Thanks for sharing. >>Thanks john thanks for having us. >>Okay. Okay. This is the cube here and 81 startup showcase. We're about to get going in on all the hot companies closing out the kino lisa uh, see jerry Chen cube alumni. He was right from day one. We've been riffing on this, but he nails it here. I think Greylock is lucky to have him as a general partner. He's done great deals, but I think he's hitting the next wave big. This is, this is huge. >>I was listening to you guys talking thinking if if you had a crystal ball back in 2013, some of the things Jerry saying now his narrative now, what did he have a crystal >>ball? He did. I mean he could be a cuBA host and I could be a venture capital. We were both right. I think so. We could have been, you know, doing that together now and all serious now. He was right. I mean, we talked off camera about who's the next amazon who's going to challenge amazon and Andy Jassy was quoted many times in the queue by saying, you know, he was surprised that it took so long for people to figure out what they were doing. Okay, jerry was that VM where he had visibility into the cloud. He saw amazon right away like we did like this is a winning formula and so he was really out front on this one. >>Well in the investments that they're making in these unicorns is exciting. They have this, this lens that they're able to see the opportunities there almost before anybody else can. And finding more white space where we didn't even know there was any. >>Yeah. And what's interesting about the report I'm gonna dig into and I want to get to him while he's on camera because it's a great report, but He says it's like 500 services I think Amazon has 5000. So how you define services as an interesting thing and a lot of amazon services that they have as your doesn't have and vice versa, they do call that out. So I find the report interesting. It's gonna be a feature game in the future between clouds the big three. They're gonna say we do this, you're starting to see the formation, Google's much more developer oriented. Amazon is much more stronger in the governance area with data obviously as he pointed out, they have such experience Microsoft, not so much their developer cloud and more office, not so much on the government's side. So that that's an indicator of my, my opinion of kind of where they rank. So including the number one is still amazon web services as your long second place, way behind google, right behind Azure. So we'll see how the horses come in, >>right. And it's also kind of speaks to the hybrid world in which we're living the hybrid multi cloud world in which many companies are living as companies to not just survive in the last year and a half, but to thrive and really have to become data companies and leverage that data as a competitive advantage to be able to unlock the value of it. And a lot of these startups that we talked to in the showcase are talking about how they're helping organizations unlock that data value. As jerry said, it is the new oil, it's the new gold. Not unless you can unlock that value faster than your competition. >>Yeah, well, I'm just super excited. We got a great day ahead of us with with all the cots startups. And then at the end day, Volonte is gonna interview, hello, fresh practitioners, We're gonna close it out every episode now, we're going to do with the closing practitioner. We try to get jpmorgan chase data measures. The hottest area right now in the enterprise data is new competitive advantage. We know that data workflows are now intellectual property. You're starting to see data really factoring into these applications now as a key aspect of the competitive advantage and the value creation. So companies that are smart are investing heavily in that and the ones that are kind of slow on the uptake are lagging the market and just trying to figure it out. So you start to see that transition and you're starting to see people fall away now from the fact that they're not gonna make it right, You're starting to, you know, you can look at look at any happens saying how much ai is really in there. Real ai what's their data strategy and you almost squint through that and go, okay, that's gonna be losing application. >>Well the winners are making it a board level conversation >>And security isn't built in. Great to have you on this morning kicking it off. Thanks John Okay, we're going to go into the next set of the program at 10:00 we're going to move into the breakouts. Check out the companies is three tracks in there. We have an awesome track on devops pure devops. We've got the data and analytics and we got the cloud management and just to run down real quick check out the sis dig harness. Io system is doing great, securing devops harness. IO modern software delivery platform, White Source. They're preventing and remediating the rest of the internet for them for the company's that's a really interesting and lumbago, effortless acres land and monitoring functions, server list super hot. And of course hacker one is always great doing a lot of great missions and and bounties you see those success continue to send i O there in Palo alto changing the game on data engineering and data pipe lining. Okay. Data driven another new platform, horizontally scalable and of course thought spot ai driven kind of a search paradigm and of course rock set jerry Chen's companies here and press are all doing great in the analytics and then the cloud management cost side 80 operations day to operate. Ops ramps and ops multi cloud are all there and sunny, all all going to present. So check them out. This is the Cubes Adria's startup showcase episode three.

>>let's bring in jerry Chen from Greylock is he here? Let's bring him in there? He is. >>Hey john good to see you. >>Hey congratulations on an amazing talk and thesis on the castles on the cloud. Thanks for coming on. >>All right, well thanks for reading it. Um, always were being put a piece of work out out of the ether, not sure what the responses, but it seemed to resonate with a bunch of developers, founders, investors and folks like yourself. So smart people seem to gravitate to us. So thank you very much. >>Well, one of the benefits of doing the Cube for 11 years, Jerry's, we have videotape of many, many people talking about what the future will hold. You kind of are on this early, it wasn't called castles in the cloud, but you were all, I was, we had many conversations were kind of connecting the dots in real time, but you've been on this for a while it's great to see the work. I really think you nailed this. I think you're absolutely on point here. So let's get into it. What is castles in the cloud? New research come out from Greylock that you spearheaded? It's collaborative effort, but you've got data behind it. Give a quick overview of what is castle the cloud, The new modes of competitive advantage for companies. >>Yeah, it's as a group project that our team put together but basically john the question is how do you win in the cloud? Remember the conversation we had eight years ago when amazon re event was holy cow like can you compete with them? Like is it a winner? Take all, Winner take most. And if it is winner take most. Where are the white spaces for some starts to to emerge clearly the past eight years in the cloud this journey we've seen big companies data breaks, snowflakes, elastic mongo data robot. And so um they spotted the question is you know, why are the castles in the cloud? The big three cloud providers amazon google and as you're winning, you know, what advantage do they have? And then given their modes of scale network effects, how can you as a startup win? And so look, there are 500 plus services between all three cloud vendors but there are like 500 plus um startups, competing gets a cloud vendors and there's like almost 100 unicorn of private companies competing successfully against the cloud vendors, including public companies. So like Alaska Mongo snowflake, No data breaks. Not public yet. Hashtag or not public yet. These are some examples of the names that I think are winning and watch this space because you see more of these guys storm the castle if you will. >>Yeah. And you know one of the things that's a funny metaphor because it has many different implications. One, as we talk about security, the perimeter of the gates, the most being on land, but now you're in the cloud, you have also different security paradigm. You have a different um new kinds of services that are coming on board faster than ever before, not just from the cloud players, but from companies contributing into the ecosystem. So the combination of the big three making the market the main markets, you, I think you call it 31 markets that we know of that probably maybe more. And then you have this notion of sub market, which means that there's like, we used to call it white space back in the day. Remember how many whites? Where's the white space? I mean if you're in the cloud there's like a zillion white spaces. So talk about this sub market dynamic between markets and that are being enabled by the cloud players and how these sub markets play into it. >>Sure. So first, the first problem was what we did, we downloaded all the services for the big three clowns. Right. And you know what as recalls a database or database service, like a document dB and amazon is like Cosmo, dB and Azure. So first thing first is we had to like look at all three cloud providers and you? Re categorize all the services almost 500 Apples, Apples, Apples, # one. Number two, is you look at all these markets or sub markets and said, okay, how can we cluster these services into things that you know, you and I can rock. Right, That's what amazon as well. And google think about it is very different. And the beauty of the cloud is this kind of fat long tail of services for developers. So instead of like oracle as a single database for all your needs, they're like 20 or 30 different databases from time series um, analytics, databases we're talking rocks at later today, right? Um uh, document databases like mongo search database like elastic and so what happens is there's not one giant market like databases, there's a database market and 30 40 sub markets that serve the needs developers. So the Great News is cloud has reduced the cost and create something that new for developers. Um also the good uses for a start up, you can find plenty of white speech solving a pain point very specific to a different type of problem >>and you can sequence up the power law to this. I love the power of a metaphor, you know, used to be a very thin neck note no torso and then a long tail. But now as you're pointing out this expansion of the fat tail of services but also this big tam's and markets available at the top of the power law where you see coming like snowflake essentially take on the data warehousing market by basically sitting on amazon and re factoring with new services and then getting a flywheel completely changing the economic unit economics completely changing the consumption model completely changing the value proposition literally >>you snowflake has created like storm create a hole that mode or that castle wall against red shift. Then companies like rock set real time analytics, It's Russian right behind snowflakes saying, hey snowflake is great for data warehouse, but it's not fast enough for real time analytics. Let me give you something new to your, your parallel argument. Even the big optics snowflake have created kind of a wake behind them that created even more white space for Gaza rock set. So that's exciting for guys like media. >>And then also as we were talking about our last episode two or quarter two of our showcase, um, from a VC came on, it's like the old shelf where you didn't know if a company's successful until they had to return the inventory now with cloud. If you're not successful, you know it right away. It's like, it's like there's no debate. Like, I mean you're either winning or not. This is like that's so instrumented. So a company can have a good better mousetrap and win and fill the white space and then move up. >>It goes both ways. The cloud vendor, the big three amazon google and Azure for sure. They instrument their own class. They know john which ecosystem partners doing well in which ecosystems doing poorly and they hear from the customers exactly what they want. So it goes both ways they can weaponize that just as well as you started to weaponize that info >>and that's the big argument of do that snowflake still pays the amazon bills, they're still there. So again, repatriation comes back. That's a big conversation that's come up. Um, what's your quick take on that? Because if you're gonna have a castle in the cloud, then you're gonna bring it back to land. I mean, what's that dynamic? Where do you see that compete? Because on one hand is innovation, the other ones maybe cost efficiency. Is that a growth indicator? Slow down? What's your view on the movement from and to the cloud? >>I think there's probably three forces you're finding here. One is the cost advantage in the scale advantage of cloud. So that I think has been going for the past eight years. There's a repatriation movement for a certain subset of customers, I think for cost purposes makes sense. I think that's a tiny handful that believe they can actually run things better than a cloud. The third thing we're seeing around repatriation is not necessary against cloud, but you're gonna see more decentralized clouds and things pushed to the edge. Right? So you look at companies like Cloudflare Fastly or a company that we're investing in Cato networks. All ideas focus on secure access at the edge. And so I think that's not repatriation of my own data center, but it's kind of a disaggregated of cloud from one giant monolithic cloud, like AWS East or like a google region in europe to multiple smaller clouds for governance purposes, security purposes or legacy purposes. >>So I'm looking at my notes here, looking down on the screen here for this to read this because it's uh to cut and paste from your thesis on the cloud, the cloud. The of the $38 billion invested uh this quarter. Um uh Ai and ml number one um analytics number two, security number three. Actually security number one. But you can see the bubbles here. So all those are data problems I need to ask you. I see data is hot data as intellectual property. How do you look at that? Because we've been reporting on this and we just started the cube conversation around workflows as intellectual property. If you have scale and your motives in the cloud, you could argue that data and the workflows around those data streams is intellectual property, it's a protocol. >>I believe both are. And they just kind of go hand in hand like peanut butter and jelly. Right? So data for sure. I p So if you know people talk about days in the oil, the new resource. That's largely true because the powers a bunch. But the workflow to your point john is sticky because every company is a unique snowflake, right? Like the process used to run the cube and your business different how we run our business. So if you can build a workflow that leverages the data that's super sticky. So in terms of switching costs, if my work is very bespoke to your business then I think that's competitive advantage. >>Well certainly your workflow is a lot different than the cube. You guys. Just a lot of billions of dollars in capital. Uh, we're talking to all the people out here jerry. Great to have you on final thought on your thesis. Where does it go from here? What's been the reaction? Uh, no, you put it out there. Great, love the research. I think you're on point on this one. Where did, where's it go from here? >>We have to follow pieces. Um, in the near term one around, you know, deep diver on open source. So look out for that pretty soon. And how that's been a powerful strategy a second is this kind of disaggregated of the cloud be a Blockchain and you know, decentralized apps, be edge applications. So that's in the near term two more pieces of, of deep dive we're doing. And then the goal here is to update this on a quarterly and annual basis. So we're getting submissions from founders that wanted to say, hey, you missed us Or he screwed up here. We got the big cloud vendors saying, Hey jerry, we just lost his new things. So our goal here is to update this every single year and then probably do look back saying, okay, uh, were we wrong? We're right. And then let's say the castle clouds 2022 we'll see the difference were the more unicorns, were there more services were the IPO's happening. So look for some short term work from us on analytics, like around open source and clouds. And then next year we hope that all this forward saying, Hey, you have two year, what's happening? What's changing? >>Great stuff And, and congratulations on the Southern news. You guys put another half a billion dollars into early, early stage, which is your roots. Are you still doing a lot of great investments in a lot of unicorns? Congratulations that great luck on the team. Thanks for coming on And congratulations. You nailed this one. I think I'm gonna look back and say that this is a pretty seminal piece of work here. Thanks for for sharing. >>Thanks john, Thanks for having me as >>always.

>> live from Orlando, Florida It's the que covering Accelerate nineteen. Brought to you by Ford. >> Welcome back to the Q. We air live in Orlando, Florida At Fortinet Accelerate twenty nineteen Lisa Martin with Peter Burst. Pleased to welcome back one of our alumni on ly the CEO and founder of Fortinet. Kensi. Ken, thank you so much for joining Peter and me on the Cuban. Thanks for having the Cube back at accelerate. >> Yeah, I love to be here again. Yeah, Thank you. >> So, so quick by the numbers Can Kino. This morning was awesome. Loved the music and all the lights to start four thousand attendees from forty countries. You guys now have about three hundred eighty five thousand customers globally. Your revenue and F eighteen was up twenty percent year on year. I could go on and on. Lots of partners, lots of academies, tremendous growth. Talk to us about in the evolution of security. Where are we today and why is supporting that so well positioned to help customers dramatically transform security >> First world happy to see all the partner of the cosmos were come here. And also we keep him like every year we in this program also is a great program on another side. Like I say, securities of wherever dynamic space you need to keep in landing on We see more and more people come here s o that's we'LL be happy to discuss in the new technology the new market opportunity and also the new trend on DH Also What we see is a the space is so old and I'm making Also we see a lot of people keeping come here for the training for other sins And also I love the music make make us feel young again So But I >> think one of the reasons why security is so dynamic it is you don't for example, in the server world you don't have, you know you know gangs of bad guys running around with baseball bats trying to eat your servers. In the security world, you have people trying to enable the business to be able to do more, but also people constantly trying to tear the business down. And that tension drives a lot of invention and requires a lot of innovation. How is that changing? We're driving some of the key trends and networks and network security >> Yeah, that's where like I presented this morning. Wait, You see, with more device connected, Actually motive, I Some people being connect today and eventually in few years we'LL be calm. Motive eyes on people. There also is all the five G or icy went technology you can make is connected faster, more broadly reached. And then there's a more application More data also come to the Internet. So that's all you quist tax servants. There's all additional risk We'LL have all this connection. We have all these data transfer to all these different diversity on people. So that's all security business, right? Because secure to have the address where they now walking cannot really are dresses above the connection above the speed. So we have our dressing a content layered application layer the device user layer all regionally or country lier s O. That's making the security always keeping foreign faster than the night walk in the night. He spending on the study become the biggest sector United ninety idea spending environment. That's also one time we just feel security also need a study merger convert together is not working because no longer oh now will get only kind of the speed I can activities secure, canniness and bob. They had to be working together to smart rain route. In a data, put a low risk area tow without a polluted like transfer. All this conscience on that way, see, is the two industries that emerged together. That's where Koda security driven that walk are the arson about how this kind of we see today the mobile on cloud started replacing the traditional PC, right? So about going forward, the wearable divine's all the glass and we award study replaced the mobile. You don't have the whole mobile phone the season, while they're probably in your eyes on the same piled. A smart car that's my home, the wise every single connecting way Are you walking? Like if I walking here our sins related my information on power for me so I don't have to carry innocents, so that's going for you. A few years we'LL be happy. First, security will be part of this space. How this will be going forward contrato today The mobile the cloud way also have some discussion about that one. So we need to prepare for all this because that's how fortunate being founded. That's how our culture about generation, about long career advancement. So that's where we want to make sure the technology the part already for this chance. That's what gave the use of the past benefit of leverage of connection. Same time, lower the risk >> organ has taken an approach in the marketplace of Let Me Step Back. Put it this way. We all talk about software to find everything in virtual ization, and that's clearly an important technology and important trend. Ford has taken advantage of that as well, but the stuff doesn't run. All that's offered stuff doesn't run on hamsters. It runs in hardware. Unfortunate has made taking a strategic position, and it's been a feature of your nearly twenty year history to continuously invest in hardware and open up the performance aperture. Increase the size of the bucket of that hardware. How is that? Both altered your ability to add additional functionality, get ahead of the curve relative to competition, but also enabled your ecosystem to do a lot of new and interesting things that we're not seeing on other another network security companies? >> Yeah, that's why I totally agree with you. Israeli howto unable the past ecosystem for everybody playing a space for the partners of his provider, carrier enterprise, on the photo leverage technology benefit. More broadly, Cosmo base is very important. That's where we feel like a sulfur cloud. They do study in kind of a change, a lot of sense. But you also need a balance among clothes. Suffers were important, but also the hardwork also very important. All right, so that's the hybrid. More post the power on the sulfur. Both the cloud at age both have equal equal weight. Equally important, going forward How to leverage all this post is also also kind of very important for the future growth of future trend Another So you also can see like a mission. Uh, will you have the immersive device? We'LL have some, like security applied in tow Storage in that work in small Sadie, you also need a bad lie. Security be part of it. No, just security. I don't cop as a cost of additional Whatever process are all since, But you know, once you make it secure to be part ofthe like we mentioned a security for even that Working security driven like a future like a wearable device or the other since without it will be huge ecosystem going forward. That's where is the chip technology you can. Bad. We just saw Fervor is also additional servants. We can all walk in together. So that's where we want to look at the whole spectrum. There, make sure different part all can walk in together on also different technology. No, just limiting some part of it. I make sure the faux technologists face hole. Attack service can be a poor tag. And also we can leverage for the security of the high table addition. Opinions? You know, this conducted a war. >> This is what you're calling the third generation of Security? >> Yes, there's more. You for structure security. That's the whole security compared tto first dinners and second generation is our security just secured himself right. So you don't involve with other night walking star recharge the infrastructure? No, because Because they view everything you inside the companies secure You only need a guard at the door This Hey, who has come here? Anything inside I'll find But with today all the mobile pouring on Devise all the data everywhere Go outside the company you need to make sure security for all of the data. So that's the new trend. So now the border disappeared. So it doesn't matter. You said the company or not, is no longer secure anymore because you can use the mobile, the access rights o outside. All people can also come here with data also go out. So that's where the infrastructure security neither give or imposing their work inside on points. I under the cloud of the age and all this a different device on the diversity. Why? So you're even your mobile phone? Hi! Still working together. So it's a much bigger before structure. Much bigger are traceable space. Now that's making secure, more exciting. >> Well, we have gotten used over the past twenty years of building applications that operate on somebody else's device, typically a PC or mobile phone. And we've learned how to deal with that. You're suggesting that we're actually going to be integrating our systems with somebody else's systems at their edge or our edge on a deeply intimate level and life and death level. Sometimes on that, obviously, place is a real premium on security and networking whatnot. So how does the edge and the cloud together informed changes and how we think about security, how we think about networking, >> That's where, like I think age and a cloud they each complaint. Different role, because architecture. So the cloud has a good C all the bigger picture. They're very good on the provisioning. There could archiving cloud, also relatively slow, and also you can see most of data generated and age. That's where, whether you're immersive device, all your mobile, whatever ages were we called a digital made physical, and that's all the people in Device Connect. So that's where, like a seven eighty percent data, Carrion a probably never traveled to the club. They need a processed locally. They also need have the privacy and autonomy locally and also even interactive with other eighty vice locally there. So that's what we see is very important. Both the cloud on age security can be addressed together and also celebrity of architecture, that I say the cloud is good for detection so you can see a something wrong. You can cry the information, but the age new market on the provisions, because prevention need to be really time needed back, moreover, quickly because a lot of application they cannot afford a late Nancy like where do the V I. R. Even you slow down in a microsecond. Pickle feet is the famous signals. You also see the also drive a car. If you react too slow, you may hear something right the same scene for a lot of harder. Even you. Commerce, whatever. If you not response picking out within a half second, people may drop the connection. The memos are married, so that's what the late and see the speed on DH that's making the club play there at all into all this management on their age, playing hero in a really kind on Barlow. Ladies, you're really kind reaction there. So what? That's where we see the both side need to play their role on important transposed market. You said that just a one cloud, which I feel a little bit too hard right now. Try to cool down a little bit of our same age. Also, we see a very important even going forward what I been a bad security in age >> with this massive evolution that you've witnessed for a very long time. As the head of forty nine last nearly twenty years EJ cloud. How how dramatically technology changes in such a short period of time. I'm curious. Can How has your customer conversations evolved in terms of, you know, ten years ago were you talk ng more to security professionals? And now are you talking more to the C suite? As security is fundamental? Teo Digital transformation and unlocking tremendous value in both dollars in society impact has that conversation elevated as security has changed in the threat landscape has changed. >> Yeah, they do go to the board level, the CEO level now compared to like a ten, twenty years ago. Probably gaiety people maybe see so level, because security become probably the most important part of it. Now they keep you got a high high percentage that ikey spending there because when we connect everything together, we can make all the people all this business together to be on the connection. That's where security handled up, right? So that's where we see security studying kind of more. You hope me more important now. But another side, also the space also changing over quick. So that's where we always have to learn it. Woman engaged with Cosmo partner here. That's where this event is about way keeping less into what's the issue they have, how we can help the dress. All these security really the usual. Some even be honest security. Go to like a connection you for structure, some other, like architectural design, whatever their penis model there. So that's all we're very important on. Like I said, security space we need to keep in Lenny every day. Even I spent a few hours a day to Lenny. I You don't feel ready? Can K child? Oh, they >> said, It's a very dynamic world security world. >> You have our dynamic, the knowledge base, the technology refreshed quickly. Way always had to be Len have training. That's where he also see Try to position forty Niners lending company. So that's where we all for the because training program and all the train is afraid for partner for customers. All this kind is really it's a big investment. That's where a lot of people say, Oh, how can you? You've asked more in the training. You said of all come better. You must move your marketing. I say journeys of over a long term benefit. When people get trained, they also see Hey, what's the pants technology? So that's where a lot of organization, a lot of investment, really looking for. How five years here come benefit of space can benefit. The car's my partner, so that's all we see. Training's far long time measurement see modern technology. >> So can you've talked in the keynote? You've talked in the Cube about how networking security come together on how, as they move forward, they're going in form. Or they'LL have an impact on business and have an impact and other technologies. There's a lot of technology change when you talk to network in professional or even your own employees. What technologies out there do you think are going to start impacting how security works? Micro services containers? Are there any technologies that Ford that's looking at and saying, We gotta watch that really closely and that networking professionals have to pay more attention to. I >> have to say pretty much all of them, right? So all these Michael, all this contender technology, micro segmentation, according computing, the immersion lending all this is all very important because security has deal with all this different new technology application on like it was all this a huge, competent power raised on the cost lower ball corner computer. And maybe some of the old technology may not really work any more for some additional risks. Like where the equipment can be break by cute from the computing or some moderate eventually can also kind of take over. All this country is always we tryto tryto learn, tryto tried. Okay, chop every day. Hey, that that's what I say is that's so exciting. Keep you wake up, Keep your Lenny everyday, which I enjoy. But at the same time, there's a lot of young people they probably even even better than us to catch the new technology. >> Oh, no. Oh, no, no, no. >> Yeah. Somehow, my kids can play the fool much greater than mere. That's always the way >> we want to thank you so much for joining Peter and me on the kid this afternoon for having the Cube back at forty nine. Accelerate and really kind of talking about how you guys are leading in the space and we're gonna be having more guests on from Fortinet. And your partner's talking about educate ecosystems and technology that you talked about in your keynote. So we thank you again for your time. And we look forward to a very successful day here. >> Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. You enjoy all this programme for many years. Thank you. >> Excellent. We love to hear that. We want to thank you for watching the Cube for Peter Burress. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube. >> Thank you.

(funky music) >> Live from San Francisco, it's theCube, covering RSA Conference 2019 brought to you by Forescout. >> Hey welcome back everybody Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at the RSA Conference at downtown San Francisco Moscone Center, they finally finished the remodel. We're excited to be in the Forescout booth, we've never been in the Forescout booth before, psyched that they invited us in. But we've got an old time CUBE alumni and a special company in my heart, was my very first CUBE event ever was Splunk.conf 2012. >> I did not know that Jeff. >> Yeah so we're live. We have Doug Merritt on he's a CEO of Splunk. Doug great to see you. >> Thanks Jeff, good to see you again also. >> Yeah so we've been doing Splunk.conf since 2012. >> The early days. The Cosmo Hotel and it was pouring rain that week. >> That was the third year. >> Probably the third year? >> Second year, yeah long time ago, it's grown. >> 2012 wasn't that big but this is a crazy show. You've been coming here for a while. Security is such an important part of the Splunk value proposition, just general impressions of RSA as you've been here for a couple of days. >> Yeah, it's amazing to see how the show has grown over the years, security's gone from this, kind of backwater thing that a few weird people did in the corner, that only understood the cyber landscape, to something that boards care about now. And that, obviously has helped with this show, I don't know what the attendee numbers are like, but tens of thousands of people. >> Oh yeah. >> You can't walk down a hallway without bumping into 10 brand new companies that were launched in the past year, and the security space and make the biggest challenge people that I have, and I think that other people have is, how do you tell different, where's the wheat from the chaff? What is really important in security and how do you tell different companies and different trends apart, so you can actually focus on what matters? >> Right, I just feel for the seed-sows, right, I mean, you guys have a big ecosystem at .conf, but those are all kind of complimentary things around the core Splunk solution. This is, you've got co-opetition, competition, how does somebody navigate so many options? 'Cause at the end of the day you don't have unlimited resources, you don't have unlimited people to try to figure all these pieces of the puzzle out. >> Yeah, and the CSOs have got a really tough job, the average CSO has got well over a hundred different vendors you're dealing with, and with Splunk what we're very focused on, and where I think we add value is that we become, if done right, we become the abstraction layer that creates a brain and nervous system that allows all those different products, and all of them have got unique capabilities. When you think about the complexity of all the networking, all the compute, all the storage, all the end point landscapes that's only getting worse for the cloud, because now there's more services with more varieties across more cloud vendors. How do you get visibility on that? >> Right, right. >> And you need products at those different junctures, 'cause protect and prevent and defend is still an important function for CSOs, but when we know that you can't prevent everything. >> Right. >> And things will go wrong, how do you know that, that is actually occurring? And what the splunk value prop is, we are the, we don't have as much of a point of view on any one product, we aggregate data from all the products, which is why so many people are partners, and then help companies with both raw investigations, given that if something goes wrong with our schema less data structure, but then also with effective monitoring and analytics that's correlating data across those tens, hundreds or thousands of different technologies. So you can get a better feel for what are the patterns that make sense to pay attention to. >> I think you just gave me like 10 questions to ask just in that answer, you covered it all. 'Cause the other thing, you know, there's also IoT now and OT and all these connected devices so, you know the end points, the surface area, the throughput is only going up by orders of magnitude. >> Without a doubt. >> It's crazy. >> I saw some stats the other day that, globally at this point there's, I may get these off by one digit, but lets say there's 80,000 servers that are the backbone of the entire internet. There's already over 11 billion connected devices, going back to that IoT theme. So the ramifications at the edge and what that means are so profound and companies like Forescout, as a key partner of Splunk's, help make sure that you're aware of; what are all the different elements that are ever hitting my network in a way. And what do they look like and what, what should I be doing, as different things pop on and pop off and, again, we're trying to be the interpretation and brain layer for that, so that they are more and more intelligent to the actions they're taking, given their depth of domain, their deep knowledge of what a camera should look like, or what a windows PC should look like or what a firewall should look like given the configurations that are important to that company. >> Before we turned on the cameras you made an interesting comment. We used to talk about schema on read versus schema on write, that was the big, kind of big data theme, and you guys are sitting on a huge data flow, but you had a really kind of different take, because you never really know, even with schema on read it seems you know what the schema is but in today's changing environment you're not really sure what it is you're going to be looking for next right? And that can evolve and change over time, so you guys have kind of modified that approach a little bit. >> Yeah, I think we are this year you'll see us really reemphasizing that core of Splunk. That the reason you'd have an investigative lake, and I don't think most people know what a schema is period, much less read or write so my new terminology is hey you need a very thorough investigative lake. Going back to the discussion we were having, with so much surface area, so many network devices, so many servers, so many end points, what tool do you have that's reading in data from all of those, and they all are going to have crazy formats. The logs around those are not manageable. To say you can manage logs and centralize. Centralized logs I get, manage those words don't work together. >> Right. Logs are chaotic by nature, you're not going to manage them, you're not going to force every developer and every device to adhere to a certain data structure so it can neatly fit into your structured database. >> Right. >> It is too chaotic, but more importantly, even if you could you're going to miss a point, which is, once you structure data, you're limited with the types of questions you can ask, which means you had to visualize what the questions would be in the first place. In this chaotic environment you don't know what the questions going to be. The dynamics are changing way to quickly, so the investigative lake is truly, our index is not schematized in any way, so you can ask a million questions once versus a schematized data store where it is; I ask one question >> A million times. a million times. And that's super efficient for that, but, the uniqueness of Splunk is, the investigative lake is the fabric of what we do, and where I think our customers, almost have forgotten about Splunk is, read all that data in. I know we've got a volume based licensing model that we're working on customers, were working to solve that for you, that's not the, I'm not trying to get data in so that we can charge more, I'm trying to get data in so that everybody has got the capacity to investigate, 'cause we cannot fail in answering what, why, when, where, how, and stuff'll go wrong, if you can't answer that, man you're in big trouble. And then on top of that let's make sure you've got right monitoring capability, the right predictive analytics capability; and now with tools like Phantom, and we bought a company called victorOps, which is a beautiful collaboration tool, let's make sure you've got the right automation and action frameworks so that you can actually leverage peoples skills across the investigative, monitoring and analytical data stores that at Splunk we help with all four of those. >> Right, right, again, you touch on a lot of good stuff. We could go for hours but we don't have you all day. But I want to follow up on a couple of things, because one of the things that we hear over and over and over is the time to even know that you've been breached. The time to know that you have a problem, and again, by having all that data there you can now start adjusting your questions based on that way you now know. But I think what's even more kind of intriguing to me is, as nation states have become more active, as we've seen the politicalization of a lot of things, you know, what is valuable today is a much varied, much more varied answer than just tapping into a bank account or trying to steal credit card numbers. So it really supports, kind of this notion that you're saying, which you don't have a clue what the question is that you're going to need to ask tomorrow. So how do you make sure you're in a position, when you find out what the question is, that you can ask it? >> And that's the design architecture I like about splunk as a company is that our orientation is, if you're dealing with a world of chaos, allow that chaos to exist and then find the needles in the haystack, the meaning from that chaos, and then when you find the meaning, now you know that a monitor is worthwhile, because you've validated root cause and it exists. And when your monitor is kicked a few times, and you know it's legit, build a predictive routine, because you now know it's worth trying to predict, because you've seen this thing trip a number of times, which inverts the way that most people, that all of us were taught. Which is start with the end in mind, because garbage in equals garbage out, so be really thoughtful in what you want and then you can structure everything, it's like well, that's not the way the world works. What if the question we asked 15 years ago was, what if you couldn't start with the end in mind, what would you have to do? Well you'd have to have a schema less storage vehicle and a language that allows you to ask any question you want and get structure on the question, but then you still need a structure. So you're going to structure them one way or the other, how do you make sure you've got high quality structure, and in our dynamic landscape that's always going to change. >> Right, well the good news is 2020 next year so we'll all know everything right? >> Yeah, exactly. >> We'll have the hindsight. So the last thing before I let you go is really to talk about automation, and just the quantity and volume and throughput of these systems. Again, one, escalating, just 'cause it's always escalating, but two, now adding this whole connected devices and IoT, and this whole world of operational technology devices, you just, you can't buy your way out of it, you can't hire your way out of it, you have to have an increasing level of automation. So how are you kind of seeing that future evolve over the next couple of years? >> I've been meeting with a lot of customers obviously this week, and one of them said, the interesting part about where we are now is, you can't unsee what you've seen. And where we were five years ago, as most people in security and IT; which are natively digitized, they still didn't know how to wrap there arms around the data. So they just didn't see it, they were like the ostrich. Now with tools like Splunk they can actually see the data, but now, what do I do with it? When I've got a billion potential events per day, how do I deal with that? And even if I could find enough manpower, the skills are going to be changing at such a constant basis, so I think this security, orchestration, automation, response; SOAR, area and we were fortunate enough to form a great relationship with phantom a couple of years ago and add them to the Splunk fold, exactly a year ago, as, I think, the best of the SOAR vendors, but it's a brand new category. Because companies have not yet had that unseeing moment of, holy cow, what do I do, how do I even deal with this amount of information? And adding in automation, intelligent automation, dynamic automation, with the right orchestration layer is an absolute imperative for these shops going forward, and when I look at a combination of phantom and their competitors there's still less then a thousand companies in a sea of a million plus corporate entities, globally, that have licensed these products. So we're at the very beginning of this portion of the wave. But there's no way that companies will be able to be successful without beginning to understand what that means, and wrapping their minds around how to use it. What we're so excited about with Splunk, is traversing investigate, monitor, analyze and automate up and down continuously, we think is the key to getting the best value from this really, really diverse and chaotic landscape and then having phantom as part of the fold helps a lot, because you can get signal on, did I do the right automation? Did It actually achieve the goal that my brain told me to do, or not? And if not, what do I adjust in the brain? Do I go after different data, do I structure the data a different way? But that up and down the chain of check and balance, am I doing the right stuff is something that-- >> And do it continuously. >> It's got to be continuous. >> It's got to be continuous. So we're sitting in the Forescout booth, so talk about how Forescout plays. I mean you guys have been sitting on those (mumbles), really fundamental core date, they're really kind of been opening up a whole different set of data, so how is that kind of working out? >> Yeah, so I'm really thankful for the relationship, mostly because they're a great company and I love their CEO, but mostly, if you go customer back, it's a very important relationship. Which is the proliferation of devices, developments continues to grow, and most companies aren't even aware of the number of devices that exist in their sphere, much less how they should look, and then what vulnerabilities might exist because of changes in those devices. So the information flow of, here's what's in the eco-sphere of a customer into Splunk is really helpful, and then the correlation that Splunk drives, so that Forescout gets even more intelligent on what corrective actions to what type of actions period do I take across this sea of devices is a really important and beneficial relationship for our customers. >> Excellent, so I'll give you the last word, little plug for Splunk.conf coming up in October. >> Yeah, I'm really excited about conf, excited to have you guys there again. We've been on a really intense innovation march for the past few years. This last conf we introduced 20 products at conf, which was a record. We're trying to keep the same pace for conf 2019 and I hope that everyone gets a chance to come, because we're going to both be, moving forward those products that we talked about, but, I think really surprising people, with some of the directions that were taking, the investigate, monitor, analyze and act capabilities both as a platform and for security IT and our other key buy-in centers. >> Alright, well we'll see you there Doug, thanks for stopping by. >> Thank you, Jeff. >> Great seeing you. >> He's Doug, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE, we're in the Forescout booth at RSA Conference 2019, thanks for watching we'll see ya next time. >> Thank you. (electronic music)

>> From Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Open Systems. The future is crystal clear with security and SD-WAN. Brought to you by Open Systems. >> Okay, welcome back, CUBE coverage here in Las Vegas. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We are here at the Chandelier Bar at the Cosmopolitan Hotel, also known as Cosmo. We're here as part of Open Systems exclusive, expert, influencer and customer party. As part of the overall week going on, Gartner's big event going on. A lot of action. We're here and our next guest is Moritz Mann. He's Chief Product Officer, CPO of Open Systems. Welcome to theCUBE. Thanks a lot. >> Yeah, good evening. >> So you got the keys to the kingdom, the product, the chief product officer has to run all the products. >> Yes, of course. You're in high demand from engineering to marketing. >> And sales of course and the customers. >> Sales, where's the product? Sales blames product, product blames sales. You know, you got to have that relationship if it's harmonious. >> Of course. >> It'll work. >> You guys are successful so it's working. >> Yeah it is and actually I think the most important part in the equation are the customers. I see more of the sales and especially customer success as kind of the gateway towards the customer to actually figure out where can we solve more problems for our customers and then create value. >> Can you step back and explain the value preposition for your product? First, describe the product or products >> Yeah. >> or core products, and the main value preposition. >> Open Systems was founded to, actually solve the key issue of a modern enterprise, which is, helping enterprises to actually master the digital transformation. And digital transformation is like a big, one of those big words, and in action it means that you have enterprises adopting multi cloud environments, connecting different locations cost efficiently, but also securing they keep business processes at the same time, so our solution comes in as a platform approach and would solve these issues by connecting, actually the end users, the business processes with the cloud and the applications and the customers. >> So operations is a big part of your success. >> Yeah, so-- >> Operating, helping operators. >> Exactly, so despite being just another yet appliance vendor, or a product vendor, or infrastructure vendor, we offer our services as a true service solution, which is-- >> Service or server? >> Service, so it's a managed service that you subscribe as a service, you consume as a service, you pay by per user, you don't have to worry about hard work, appliance costs, and actually scaling of these costs and suffer-- >> Yeah, so classic asses model. What problem are you solving for the customer? What's the way you guys are winning, why are they using you guys, why are they buying you? >> Yeah, I think one of the key, what we bring, keys that we bring is alternate key solution that comes with the operation's excellence included and manage operation's part. And one of the key differentiators is that we have an extraordinary security stack, in this SD-WAN platform, so we're not only providing and delivering applications for the users and customers but we are also protecting those applications from threats like ransomware attacks, red actors inside the network, and in the cloud environments. >> Explain the security stack piece, that's build into the SD-WAN product? >> Yeah. >> And that's a glued software you guys wrote? >> Yeah, so we have an OAM, it's like a highly scalable platform that consist of open source components with OM premium components, to do, like a DPI application detection and security threat detection, and these security functions can be enabled by use case, so for instance we have a piece that just, primarily they are to detect any lateral movement to prevent another ransomware attack like Maersk got into. >> So I'm going to ask you a question, I'll put you on the spot. So, I'm a customer. >> Yeah. >> And sometimes, I don't know, I have a problem, I'm a frog in bowling water, whatever the metaphor is, and I got issues. When do I know when to call you? What's happening around me, as a customer, to call up Open Systems to solve my problem? What are some of the symptoms I might see? What does it look like? Is it security sprawl? Are there solutions? Is it just not enough staff? What are some of these symptoms that make me want to dial you guys up? >> Great question. So one of those symptoms is that you notice that your end users are complaining so they have spotty internet, they have slow internet access, or you have SAP applications honors, for instance, that are very unsatisfied about the application's performance inside de WAN, or to the cloud. And you will notice that that's when we will get called and we will help you to actually maximize your network so you can actually focus on your core business, and not about where do I have to scare the infrastructure. >> So, performance is number one. >> It's performance. >> So basic performance stuff, what else? >> It's all about also visualizing and telling where actually do the customers have a good, or end users have a good performance of the network, and where do I have to actually expand and invest in the network and the cloud environment to actually improve customer's performance. >> Okay so here's another one: Hey, Moritz! I already got security covered. Why do I need more security, when? What gives? >> Yeah, I mean, security, you can spend endless money in security and yet have another appliance, and have another product to patch, like a Tect O problem, but you will end up in a growing stack of complexity. We'll provide you with a very strategic solution, that will help you to cover to 80% of your problems and in the end you have a budget of solutions that prevents the most of your threats to your network and to your applications. >> Okay, cool. Thanks for sharing that insight. This is like the customer dynamic. Now I want to get to the innovation piece, so as to when there used to be a bunch of network guys managing QoS, mostly packed stuff, all that good stuff, we kind of knew all that, but as the cloud comes in and as cloud operations and IT operations start to see things, like automation, AI, machine learning, data and all that stuff plays a new role, they're rethinking their architecture, so what innovations are in the horizon that you see coming? That will change the landscape of, as what SD-WAN is, and what it will become. What are the innovation areas to watch in? >> We are working already in the next generation for next year, which will enable our customers to identify any application inside of the network independent where that application is. So, it will be crucial to not think anymore in networks and how many appliances do I have where, but how fast can I get an application up and running in a new cloud. And this is where we are investing a lot, into cloud delivery, cloud integration, especially also with the partnership with Microsoft, we have a API integration to build, and actually launch new applications directly from the cloud but integrated into the SD-WAN, and including also all the security parameters that you need to secure in order to actually have a, not only application running and integrated in the network which is called Intent-Based Networking on the Gartner terms, but also have that secured in terms of business risk protection. >> What's the biggest feature request that you get asked for? Cause you're managing the product team, you're in roadmaps, you're here planning, you're marketing in sales teams, you're listening to customers, what are they asking for, what's your priorities? >> So priorities, foremost is automation and simplification, this are our core aspects in order to keep up with the, actually the new complexity that derives also in the cloud sprawl that's happening. So customers are not launching, one cloud, not two but multiple clouds in parallel, which they ask for, actually orchestration through the network and through integrated through into the cloud orchestration. And secondly, it's the whole Shadow IT, so, where do I have SAS applications I never knew about? How can we protect those applications well, and the data that we upload later too. >> Security surface area is huge. Final question for you, for people that are learning about who you guys are, Open Systems, it's expanding in the US, you're already successful you guys, great revenue, great success in the product side, so congratulations, but for the people that are learning about you, what's the culture like, and what one thing should they know about Open System, that they should know about? >> I think one cultural element that we really bring to the table is, we are unconventional in the way that how we solve customers' problems, and the amount of dedication and passion that we put into delivering the solution. So one of our core pillars is the defaults model, so that means that the engineers that are building that platform, are also at the same time your first year contacts when it comes to service management and support. That truly makes a difference in the customer experience. >> Programmable internet, programmable software, programmable deBAR as well, infrastructure as code, so you guys are like SD-WAN as code. (laughs) >> Exactly, it's similar to that. >> It's a new trend, it's like Blockchain (laughs) >> Exactly. >> You say Blockchain and anything is popular. >> We try to be as simple as that, that's true. >> Moritz, thanks for coming on theCUBE, late night here, this is theCUBE after draw, we are here, this Chandelier launch at the Cosmo, The Cosmopolitan Hotel for CUBE coverage at Open Systems' event for influencers, executives, experts and customers, of course, influencing theCUBE. We'll be back with more after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> From Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering Open Systems. The future is crystal clear with security and SD-Wan. Brought to you by Open Systems. >> Hello everyone, I'm John Furrier here in Las Vegas for special CUBE presentation. We're at the Chandelier Bar at the Cosmopolitan Hotel, the Cosmo, on the Las Vegas strip. Part of a series of a lot of events going on. Gartner's got two events happening, But we're here as part of Open Systems. You got exclusive get-together of influencers, customers, all talking about the impact the Cloud, Secure, SD-Wan, a variety of other things. Open Systems, a very successful, Switzerland-based company expanding rapidly in the United States, a global platform and we're here with the CTO, Stefan Keller, thanks for joining me. >> Thank you for having me. >> You guys have been very successful in this, I will say, changing SD-Wan, a completely new re-imagined SD-Wan market because with the internet and Cloud, people don't want to connect to the internet anymore, they want either direct connection, they want high-secure, wide-area network connections. They want secure connections. More important than ever when you have Internet of Things, a lot of surface area, nevermind multiple headquarters or branch offices, so SD-Wan has gone from a connection, connectivity, move packets from A to B, to a fully-integrated, secure architecture that's easy to use, that can deal with mobile embedded. You guys have been successful, with almost no marketing, all word of mouth, successful product, tell us, Stefan, as the CTO, what is the most compelling thing about the technology that's been resonating with customers? >> Well, as I said, the last couple of years there was a lot of change, technology change. The requirements of our customers changed as well. With Cloud, you'll all of a sudden have traffic pattern that you didn't have before. Before, everything was static. You had just your band connectivity to the data center and there is left, towards the internet. But with SD-Wan, you now have the capability to have very complex traffic flow at the branch office, itself. So, you have a lot of logic that you put to the branch office and the challenge is now, how can you actually control all that traffic flow in a central way? Because in the end, all our customers or companies, what they want, they want to have the flexibility to use all those new technologies, be it Cloud, be it IOT, whatever. But still have the security in mind in the sense, they want to be protected, they want to be protected. You now have the branch office with a lot of new traffic patterns. How do you control that? And that's where our integrated approach of SD-Wan and security is the perfect fit. So you really have a global policy that you assign locally. >> One of the big trends that's happening now obviously, is the Cloud has grown so big and popular that the economics, you cannot ignore the economics and the value in the cloud for what you're paying. Agility, etc., we've heard that. However, validated even more than ever is on-premises. People are going to have an on-premises and Cloud or Hybrid Cloud solution. Now, IT departments and these people managing CSOS, managing all these people have to deal with the distributed, in some cases decentralized operations. The problem is there's so many vendors. They don't have the expertise so they need things as a managed service, sometimes they want to maybe choose something on premise that's deployed. So you need a diversity of choices without compromising ease of use. So the question for you is: How do you guys make that happen because this is something that you've heard people like about your product, complex, I hate the word single-pane of glass but that's been an IT term, that's essentially dashboard, central teams can use telemetry... and data but get the benefits of.. variety of environments. Why is it so successful, what is the choices for customer? Is it managed service, is that the direction? Or and odd PRAM, what's your thoughts? >> Yeah, that's a good point. In the end it's a combination because we are a managed service because, as you said, things get more complex and the talent market is challenging so it's difficult to find the right talents that can manage it. So that's where we come in as a strategic partner. We are not only in the SD-Wan market, we are also in the security market as well. So we combine security and the SD-Wan. That's what you see with all the SD-Wan vendors out there and they're very strong with SD-Wan capabilities but in order to provide security functionality they start to partner, be it with a firewall vendor, with a proxy vendor what so on. So, in the end, you as a customer, you don't deal just with one partner, all of a sudden you have four, five, or even six such partners you have to deal with. And if a managed service provider can provide a holistic approach of security and SD-Wan you have one partner you can deal with so it makes, for you, very easy. >> So a lot of peoples have say, "oh" they've been trying security, a variety, "we've seen every scheme in the book." And the easiest one was, oh, network traffic. Pack an inspection, kind of not very good. But you want to watch the bad guys move. When things are moving around, that's when you get the pattern recognition. Is there software that you guys write? How do you get that security edge? Is it watching the movement patterns, not just the packets but who has what systems, is it a variety of things? What's the underlying secret sauce for Open Systems? >> The secret sauce, well let's say, is that we are flexible to take out whatever is state of the art and put it together to a managed service in a standardized way for our customers If you look as today's companies they want to do it on their own. They may have to deal with 30, 40 different kind of vendors and components and put it together. We do that for our customers. We take state of the art technology, put it together, and make all the service of it. And the advantage is, because we have that high level of integration, we can all of a sudden, use one component for different kind of services we provide. That's the difference when you have an ecosystem like SD-Wan where you have three, four components, they don't really talk with each other, they do not have a common language. We bring that common language so that the consistent view and the consistent logic over the entire band of our customers. >> So you're the glue layer. Between all the different components. >> Right. >> Okay, so I got to ask you a question. If someone says to you "hey Stefan, this other vendor promised me all this stuff over here, some other person. I got to get current on SD-Wan." What do you think people don't know about SD, whether they should know, that might be a surprise or things that you've observed with your successful customer deployments that's a lot harder than it looks. Cause a lot of people say "oh we got that!" And it doesn't really work very well. Or is a blind spot for the CSOS team, security team, around capabilities. So you can be aspirational but you got to have the capability what are some areas that you've seen that are important for buyers to consider when architecting and then deploying and executing an SD-Wan strategy? >> I mean, When you see all those SD-Wan vendors what they say, "hey it's easy to deploy, it's zero-touch deployment." Can't be true but in the end, you have a global network you want to deploy a global policy and somehow, you have to manage that. And this is something that most of them just underestimate. You only need, really, a strategic partner who knows how to deal with it, who has the capabilities, the experience, and the know-how to deploy it easily and manage it for you So then you don't have the pain. >> Give me an example of a customer, you don't have to say their name, where the old way they did something and then the Open Systems side of it, they did it your way and watch changed, what was the impact? Did they have more efficiency with the people? Did they save time, what was some of the consequences of doing the old way versus the new way? >> The old way also then involved some kind of an MPLS network, or course, if we go with the SD-Wan approach, the really good ones convince a customer, "hey, you don't need MPLS for the application you need." For the SLA you want to have. Internet connectivity if fine and just have two or three such internet connection per location. So in the end, it was cost-saving, it was a full put agreement. Performance all of a sudden was very great and in the end they liked us because of our operational efficiency so our operations model is very efficient and helps our customers so that they can focus on their core business. >> So the applications get smarter, and then you actually saved money because, remember, it still costs a lot of money to send traffic over the network, in some cases. Okay, final question. There's a big trend towards direct connections, where do you see that going, how does that impact SD-Wan? >> I would say that's again on the security side because with SD-Wan, you have a lot of flexibility we just didn't have in the past. This means you have traffic flow all of a sudden which is not expected by many people. If you go to a single branch office, a small one, all of a sudden they have local exits, they do internet surfing, youtube video-ing, they have connections to their private data center, to their public Cloud environment, everything. So different kind of traffic pattern. And here we have just the single way, a unique approach, about a global Zone-Based Firewall. So this makes your traffic pattern all of a sudden very transparent and simple again, this helps you to control the traffic flow and to avoid any kind of leak. >> As we always say, don't send those cat videos. It still costs money to share the cat videos around. Super Content is a big part of this too, you've got all kinds of new SAS applications, talking to each other, this is another layer of abstraction that needs to be managed. That's an area you guys do? API's and applications? >> We're going in that direction, I would say we're not that far yet. We can do much more but this is the direction we have to go to. >> Final question: you come to the U.S. A lot of people are learning about you guys, If we're at a cocktail party, which we are at now, and I say "hey Stefan, bottom line me, what's the one thing about Open Systems that makes you guys great?" >> Then I'll still go back to our operational excellence. We really have a way to operate thousands of devices in a way that is so efficient and scaled very well for a huge customer base. >> Alright Stefan, thanks for coming on. Stefan Keller, CTO of Open Systems, hot start-up out of Zurich, Switzerland. A very successful company, really now exploding in the United States, expanding to Silicon Valley. We are here in Las Vegas, theCUBE coverage. Bringing all the action down here at the Open Systems influencer, expert cocktail party, here at the Chandelier Bar at the Cosmo hotel. Part of a lot of events around Gartner's events are here. Covering it all, stay with us for more after this short break. (chill electronic beats)

>> From Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Open Systems. The future is crystal clear with security in SD-WAN. Brought to you by Open Systems. >> Welcome back to Las Vegas everybody, my name is Dave Valanti and you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise. We are covering the Open Systems networking event. They're here as part of the two Gartner events here this week. On the heels of AWS Reinvent, a lot of action going on in Las Vegas. Steve Garson is here, he's the president and founder of SD-WAN experts consultancy in this space. Steve, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Glad to be here. >> So tell us a little bit more about your background. >> Okay. I've been in the networking space since about 2007. Initially, my company was called MPLS Experts, when companies were migrating to MPLS and not understanding, well, what carriers should I use. I helped companies re-engineer their WAN back then. As that developed, the WAN optimization came into the scene and I helped companies evaluate the right WAN optimization solution. Then I had the foresight to see the potential of SD-WAN. I pivoted the business, called it SD-WAN Experts and started writing for network world and blogging on my own sites and with a number of other websites. I've been helping enterprises worldwide re-engineer their network, make a WAN transformation that's secure and supports easy management and save a lot of money. >> So, awesome. So you have a practitioners background, right? >> Exactly. >> That's fair to say. So you know your stuff, let's get into it. So let's talk trends, I mean. At a high level we always talk at theCUBE about the cloud and how that's affecting network traffic. Going from North South to East West has a major impact on security and performance. What are the big trends in the market space that you see, that are relevant? >> Well, we see consolidation obviously. (coughs) Obviously moving to the cloud is a big driver. The WAN has been designed for a data center with an MPLS network. That's a hub and spoke architecture that really doesn't make sense anymore. Companies are moving to Office 365, they're using Salesforce.com, they're using all kinds of softwares and service. That just doesn't work with a data center. So what companies have traditionally done is they have regional secure gateways and they're sending the traffic from an office to a secure gateway and now they're going through the internet. It just is convoluted, the traffic is tromboned and the latency is higher than it has to be. They're spending more money for these expensive circuits that, ultimately, they're going to the internet anyways. >> So, there's a lot of technical debt out there. How does a company go from point A to point B without spending a zillion dollars or bringing in, you know, a huge SI to re-architect everything. Is there a path that you can advise customers, or is it just every situation is a snowflake? >> You could probably define a half-dozen different basic situations that are snowflakes. Essentially you're moving to, you know, if you have an MPLS network companies typically will need more bandwidth and instead of getting more MPLS bandwidth they'll add internet connectivity. Using SD-WAN they'll root traffic over the internet that's supposed to go to the internet. The things that are still required on their MPLS network will stay in play. When those MPLS contracts expire, then there's a question of, do I need MPLS? That's a complicated question to answer. I will not say that you can eliminate MPLS, I'll always say it depends. It depends on the latency between paths on your network. I presented a paper at O-NUG a few weeks ago in New York, in which I analyzed with a lot of empirical data. Latency, packet-loss, and standard deviation of that latency between paths like from Tokyo to New York. You might a have 200 millisecond latency. But your standard deviation over the internet might be 200 milliseconds. So that means, potentially, if you're using only the internet, you might have 400 milliseconds latency. Can your application work appropriately? >> If you need 200 guaranteed, you've got a problem. Right? >> Right, exactly. In a situation like that, you might want to use MPLS or there's a new category of connectivity called SDCore which is an MPLS network in the Cloud that you access through an IPSec VPN to pops that are typically within 20 milliseconds. So you get that stability, but you cut the cost dramatically. >> Now the Edge just confuses us even further, right? IOT, The Edge, I mean certainly a trend everybody's talking about. From your standpoint, how real is it? Is it here today? Is it coming? What is the effect going to be on all these trends? >> You mean, the Edge? >> Yeah, the Edge, IOT. >> I mean it's a complicated thing. I mean the Edge. >> The industrial internet. >> Yeah, I mean, when people talk about the Edge today the Edge used to be their router and SD-WAN devices are supplanting the router. Gartner has indicated that by 2023 nobody is going to be buying routers. Everybody is going to be using an SD-WAN device which will route. >> Amazon, we were at Reinvent last week, they might even look at the data center as the Edge. But, I digress. Let's talk about the horses on the track. Lay out the competitive environment right now. We're here at the Open Systems event. Where do they fit in the market landscape? >> Open Systems is a very unique company where people will say, who's Open Systems competitor. They really don't have a competitor because they're unique. Open Systems is a company that has a secure SD-WAN which means there's a full security stack with SD-WAN. So you have the benefits of SD-WAN, but instead of having to deal with all these different security applications like HASBY, Data-loss Prevention, and IPSIDS, authentication, VPN integration with active directory. They do all of that and it's all managed. It's a very unique offering. >> So the competition is Do-It-Yourself, right? >> The competition is Do-It-Yourself or use a managed service provider who probably doesn't have all the pieces that work together. Open Systems has been doing this for 25 years. They have developed what the customers want. I went to one of their global customer meetings. They called a cap meeting last year. Each year they get input from the customers as far as what kind of enhancements they want to see. They actually take that input and the following year the customers, I was amazed, the customers just are thrilled that the company listens and the company implements what they ask. >> Again, I've mentioned there's a couple of Gartner shows going on this week. Sounds like Open Systems wouldn't really fit cleanly into a magic quadrant. >> They don't. They don't because they're not an Edge device. They're a complete Edge security solution that's managed. >> We talked about this at theCUBE, John Ferrs has brought up several times that the magic quadrants will have to evolve as these managed services, the Cloud certainly affects that. As more and more things get co-opted by the services, you know, economy. But, your thoughts on magic quadrants, how customers are using them. My understanding is, today, you heard a talk from a Gartner analyst that was helping people understand the do's and don'ts of a magic quadrant. Your thoughts? >> Yeah, well what Gartner was talking about today is how many people use the magic quadrant inappropriately. They think this tells us which companies we should look at and really what it's telling you is how that customer's strategy fits in with the market place. But you really have to look at what your requirements are. You can't just say, okay I'm going to look at quote the top three SD-WAN vendors. What are your requirements? That's what my firm does as a consultant is we help companies figure out what their requirements are to find out what's the right solution. A story I love to tell is a company that spent a year evaluating SD-WANs. They were about to make a decision and the CIO basically told the committee after a year of evaluations hey before we sign a contract, let's get an independent sanity check that we've made the right decision. I met with the company, spent a couple weeks assessing their requirements, and I know all of the major technologies and I knew that what they had selected wasn't correct. But you can't tell a client that they've made a mistake. So we set up a meeting with the vendor, which was a carrier, and their technology provider and the committee and I asked the hard questions that the vendor couldn't answer. Which made it really clear to the client that this is the wrong solution. They went a completely different direction. >> Saved them a lot of money. I love those stories. What's your website? >> SD-WAN-experts.com >> Alright, Steve thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. Sharing your knowledge. >> Thank you. >> Awesome stuff. Really appreciate it. >> Pleasure. >> Keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back from Las Vegas Cosmo hotel. Open Systems networking event. You're watching theCUBE. (techno music)

(upbeat instrumental music) >> From Las Vegas it's the CUBE. Covering Open Systems, the future is crystal clear with security and SD-WAN. Brought to you by Open Systems. >> Hello everyone and welcome back to the CUBE. We are here in Las Vegas in the Cosmo hotel in the Chandelier bar. Part of Open Systems get together, kind of session of smart people gathered. All part of big week here in Vegas. Garden is having a big event, a lot of things happening. We have Martin Bosshardt who is the CEO of Open Systems who's hosting the event. Thanks for coming on the CUBE. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for joining me. Okay so, I got to get this out there. You guys are in Switzerland headquarters. You've just established big presence in Silicon Valley. >> Right. >> And you've expanding rapidly in Silicon Valley, congratulations. >> Thank you. >> Explain what you guys do, how you started, where you come from and what's the story of Open Systems? >> Well, originally we started as managed security service provider and I managed security infrastructure. We learned, especially if you are doing financial services, security infrastructure, if you try to update you need to go into those data centers. And that is harder to get in there, it's like entering North Korea. So we learned to operate that stuff remotely and that really brought us in more than 180 countries, especially with industry companies. Industry they manufacturing, they started to globalize their value chains, and that really helped us to globalize our foot print. And obviously to do that we used SD-WAN. So we definitely came from the security space, but today we are the largest SD-WAN, standardize SD-WAN platform we a fully integrated security staff. >> So how big is the company roughly people-wise? What's a... >> We are 200 plus people currently, and a 50 plus million revenue this year. >> How big, sounds like the customers are really large complex data centers with a lot of offices and facilities. Is that your makeup of your customer base right now? >> Our customer base really is, I think, I mean obviously financial services that's always if you start in Switzerland a company, the financial services is very important. But then also, industry, manufacturing is especially companies with globalized value chains are very interested in our services. Because you have serious complexity from regulatory point of view, but also from operational point of view to operate SD-WAN in a secured way. So this is really our sweet spot. >> So explain the difference between SD-WAN old way and the new way, because SD-WAN was simply connecting branch offices together, basic networking stuff. Mean its like connectivity. So today is much more complex. What's the difference between the SD-WAN environment thing, because there is a resurgence with SD-WAN. With cloud computing, with the internet, obviously with secure issues, it's a whole different ball game. Explain the difference between the old way and the new way. >> Well the old way was it just connected occasions and then you piped traffic through a VPN, right. And I think we learned a lot about what SD-WAN is really capable to do when we start to work for the NGO Space, when you use a lot of satellite traffic. It's very expensive to pipe everything through the satellites, so you need to slice the traffic into important stuff, less important stuff and then you decide what are you going to route through the satellite and what you going to route terrestric. And this is really where the whole magic of SD-WAN comes from. You certainly have to, the freedom to route traffic application based in a very different way. So, you're not bound to protocols anymore, so you really can route your Office 365 traffic different than your Facebook traffic. You can route, you can priortize. >> So you can differentiate between the traffic types first. That was a first, discovery. >> That was important for us, because we managed infrastructure and obviously you don't want to create congestion by managing infrastructure. So, it is really about, what traffic is important? What traffic is time critical? >> Yeah. >> And route, depending on the application needs, traffic differently. >> Yes, cost is always a big motivator. But for innovation. >> Cost performance. It's always cost performance, right? >> So, I get that's awesome and by the way that's how startups figure out innovations that don't have a lot of capital. They figure it out by being effective and making things work. When did the security piece click in for you guys? When you guys saw SD-WAN, when was the moment you said, "Okay we are going to do all these things to save costs and do this kind of routings and these kinds of policy based". I'm over simplifying, but you know what I'm saying. When did security become important? Was it from the beginning? Was it a discovery? Was it something that was a, you just caught the wave? Explain how you guys became so prolific in your product with security. >> We definitely, we came sort of from the security space and the SD-WAN was something we used to operate security infrastructure. So it's maybe, we looked at it a little bit different, but at the end of the day, SD-WAN creates so much opportunities for companies. And I believe the whole cloud movement is creating so many opportunities for companies to move fast, to create growth. Also, if you think IoT, it creates whole different business models for almost all enterprise organizations. >> Talk about the business model, that's important, because go ahead finish your thoughts. >> And now the question is, How can you embrace all that growth and managing the risks? And that's what's happening right now. We help customers to combine the security. >> So one of the things we were here last week for Amazon re:Invent big event for Amazon web services and they announce a non-premise product. No one thought they were ever going to do that. So I asked the CEO there why they were doing that, essentially he said, "latency kills". Certain latency is now the new problem. You learned that from the satellite situation where cost and latency are really important factors in determining how you architect things. But then you realize that the business models are shifting. So, I ask you, as you have need for security and low latency, people are looking for direct connections. They don't want to route traffic through internet. Who knows where it's going to go though, China? It's all these hidden problems. >> Yeah, and you know I agree basically. Latency kills, but I also disagree, because there are applications where latency is not an issue, like email. I mean you couldn't care less about latency in email. >> In fact don't deliver it. (laughs) >> But at the same time it's really important that a network understands not only how it routes, it also understands what it routes. And that is the power of SD-WAN, so you really can route different applications in different routes. >> Right time, right place kind of thing. >> Exactly and then it depends where it's consumed, where it's delivered and where do you route those >> Talk about your business model now, you got a U.S. Why the U.S. expansion? Is it right for growth? Is it a natural progression? What's the strategy, Why U.S. expansion? >> Actually, what we see the U.S. is moving very fast to the cloud right now and this is an opportunity for us to really support that, I would call it transformation. It's really an industry transformation is happening right now and we just in Europe maybe to bring down the cost of connectivity. That's still more of a business driver, and obviously, that's always exciting to bring down costs. But if you move to cloud, you really have to rethink your network structure and also you have to rethink your security posture. So this is just a way of opportunity. >> Martin, I got to ask you honestly, I've been kind of checking around Silicon Valley and you guys have a good vibe and good buzz. Certainly great reputation in Switzerland, great product, great work, but you are attracting kind of new talent from the Bay area, Cisco in particular. A lot of these high-powered people. Networking guys, developers. Who are you guys looking to attract into your office as you expand, I know you got a lot of openings. It's not a recruiting plug, but I mean as you look to put the team together, What are you guys looking for? What's the kind of individual? What's the culture of your company? What's the kind of things people can expect if they work there? >> I mean we are focused on, we just want to create the most amazing networks in a secured way. And I believe this is very attractive, what we've created the last couple of years. And that is also attractive for talent in Silicon Valley. But obviously, it's a competitive market. But it's all over the world, it's competitive market. And I believe, especially going to the market and understanding what the world needs. That's very powerful in Silicon Valley. The eco-system is very powerful, so for us is clear. We want to be there, we want to play a role. >> That's awesome, we look forward to doing more content. Final question for you, If you could have to nail down the core problem that you guys are trying to solve. As the world evolves, the landscape continues, the world gone global. You're seeing all kinds of needs, all kinds of intelligence. What have the top problems that your team is working on, to continue to iterate and solve, What are the big things you are trying to nail down? >> We want to make it for a customer very easy to consume a secure SD-WAN. And that sounds maybe simple, but it's not. To operate an SD-WAN in a secure way is really challenge. So most companies operate like 40, 50 different products to achieve that. >> Yeah. >> And we us it's like subscribing a service. >> Quick plug last minute, What's your product? 'Cause you have a deal with multiple vendors. Is this a SAS product, on-premise, cloud? >> It's a SAS, on prem available and it's availa6ble in all major cloud (mumbles), like Azuren and Amazon. So it's in all clouds premises working. >> You're literally Switzerland, for the cloud. (laughs) >> Yeah. >> They use that expression in the United States a lot. >> Yeah. >> We're Switzerland, we're neutral. >> Yeah, we're Switzerland, we're neutral. We're actually very neutral and also... >> But seriously, you can work with, if I'm the customer >> Right. >> I have multiple clouds, I have multiple vendors. I have a ton of security products. Can I use you guys? >> Right, yeah it's simple. I mean we are already a platform so we use many security products and orchestrate so they work together. >> What are the common things you get from customers that have been successful with you. And I don't want to say single (mumbles) lessons that is an old IT expression, but the world has to be smarter, faster, dashboard oriented, AP harden, APIs, a lot of data traversal. What's the ideal end state for your customers, when you guys are successful? >> You have to repeat that question. >> From a customer, what's the value purchase to me? Am I saving time? Am I integrating multiple devices? >> You save a lot of time, you save a lot of money. And I believe the most important thing is, we see ourself as weapon in a war for talent. It's just impossible for our customers to find the talents to really operate that stuff in a good way. And we make that much easier. So obviously, you cannot outsource security, but you can make security easy, manageable and that's where we... >> And operational, make it work. >> And operational, make it work, and that's I believe the key already. >> Well Martin, congratulations on the expansion strategy. Real quick, What's going on in Vegas for you guys here? What are you guys here talking about? What's the big story here for you guys? >> Well basically, obviously, we grow very fast so we also use this to bring together people. But then also, everybody is here right now. It's great to see winners, it's great to see partners. It's great to see competitors, so it's just important to understand the market. It's also, there are worst place in the world to be. >> Yeah. >> In Las Vegas. >> Build those relationships, thanks so much for coming on the CUBE, really appreciate it. >> Thank you so much. >> I'm here with the CEO of Open Systems from John Furrier the CUBE, we are here at the Chandelier bar at the Cosmo. We are just getting started, we got a couple bunch more interviews still to come. We just had the FBI on, really importa6nt conversations around security, cybersecurity, enterprise security, and how to make SD-WAN work. We'll be right back with more. Stay with us after this short break. (techno music)

>> Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE, covering Microsoft Ignite. Brought to you by Cohesity and theCUBE's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE'S coverage of Microsoft Ignite 2018 here in Orlando. I'm Stu Miniman, and happy to welcome back to the program John Mracek who's the CEO of a Imanis Data. It's our first time at the show, but not your first time on theCube. Thanks so much for joining us and tell us we caught up with you in New York City talking about kind of the AI, analytics, all those things there. what what what brings a Imanis to Microsoft Ignite? >> So this has been a great show for us. And what I really see happening here is there's a vibrancy that probably didn't exist in Microsoft events, maybe four or five years ago. Because Microsoft really getting their act together on the whole how you migrate and bring people to the Azure. Right, because that's their agenda. And so where we fit in there is in our data management platform. We help customers migrate to a Azure. So whether it's moving your Hadoop workloads to Azure, or one of the products that's been featured here that we've gotten a lot of Microsoft support on is our migration tool to move from MongoDB to Cosmo DB. So we play really well into the migration story and it really leverages our platform. >> Yeah, one of the questions we talk about all the time is customers trying to figure out where things live and, well, it's like your cloud strategy. Things are changing over time. Customers have really multi-cloud environments, which really means they're doing a lot of different things and a lot of times they need to move them and sort those out. So what are the challenges you're seeing? How do you help those businesses make decisions today and be able to move things as needed in the future? >> Yeah, what we see and what we're playing into is really this evolution. You know, solutions really drive technologies. So in a large enterprise, you might have a division or a particular group that says, I need this BI or analytics tool and I need a big data platform to do it. So they build this. They build on top of some either NoSQL or Hadoop and then they've got this great solution. Well, that happens four or five times across the enterprise, and at some point in the enterprise, the CIO or somebody says, "you know, "we kind of got all these distributed data systems, "and like, who's managing them? "How is that data being moved "to your point about cloud migration? "Well, these are on-prem, these are in the cloud. "We want to put them all in the cloud, how do we do that?" And so that's where we're seeing as kind of the call for our product, which is, okay, I need a central way to manage and manipulate this data, as a fundamental problem. >> Yeah, so we all know that data is fundamental to a business. It's one of the most important things. We can use all the tropes of, it's the new oil or anything like that. But when you dig down, it's a lot of complexity into how, how do I get data? How do I manage data? How do I share data? We're sitting here in Cohesity, is the where we are in the booth. Can you help us understand, what are the solutions that you complement in the data space? What are the solutions that you replace? or a modern version or compete against in this space? >> So the way to look at us, we're at our most general, we're a platform for moving data from one platform to another. Okay, and that has many different use cases. But where we're getting a lot of customer uptake is on the backup recovery. It's like, I've got it here, I want to make a backup. We also see a lot in terms of migration, whether it's the Mongo to DB or I want to move from on-prem to cloud or cloud to cloud. And where we fit is if you look there's a legacy providers who don't traditionally go after the NoSQL and Hadoop space. And so where were a perfect complement to either those companies or folks like Cohesity. We have partnerships with Cohesity, Veem and others where they get in RFP or they're talking to a customer and the customer has a specific request for data management solution for NoSQL or Hadoop platforms. And that's where we come in. Because that's what we focused on exclusively from day one. >> Yeah, well, being at a Microsoft show, I mean, applications are central to so much and Microsoft does. Everything from Office, but on the data side, we spend a lot of time this week talking about SQL. Talking about Cosmos DB and cool new things they're doing. And of course, Microsoft's playing in a lot of the modern areas. We see them, big developers base here, even more of it at the Microsoft Build show, what do you see in the Microsoft space on the application modernization? Sounds like that would tie in quite a bit to what you're helping customers with. >> Yeah, so we have customers across all the cloud providers. But what we see in the Microsoft case is really people looking for maybe global easy deployment, customer facing as typical examples. So people who are really pushing the envelope, frankly. And there's almost like a bi-modal distribution. There's kind of some folks who are still trying to retrofit the old world and then others who are really embracing some of the new platforms. >> I'm not sure if you were at the keynote on Monday, Satya Nadella unveiled the Open Data Initiative. We've got Adobe and SAP and Microsoft there. I was talking to one analyst and reading some reports, and I'm like, well, it's not a coincidence that this was launched the week of Salesforce. Salesforce has a lot of data. Maybe that's a little bit of an attack there. But data across these big providers is important. I want to be able to share and leverage my data. You're in the data business. But what viewpoint you have of some of these really big providers of the application as they're going through their digital transformation, and making how do customers get the best value out of their data? >> So, my background, most recent background, I was in an ad tech company, where we're all big data. And the whole play there, is how do you manage your audiences, right? How do you have a unifying way to look at audiences? And so this is what's playing out on a more higher level, a more general level of how do I normalize and create a unified view of the customer and consistent data so that I can then manage it. And so that's an essential requirement to get the maximum value at out of that. Once you have that and you're in your data repositories, it's incredibly critical to protect them, to be able to orchestrate and move around. Where we fit in and how we see it is, these things are data, to reuse the term is the new oil and the new gold. And companies are realizing that it's really time to protect this data. I put all this investment into getting unified view of data. Wow, what are we doing about how do we back it up, restore it and move it? >> It's interesting, I've watched the space long enough. You go back kind of BI and DW days, go through big data. Now, we talk about a lot more of the analytics in the intelligence there. Help us as to, what are we actually realizing today that we were been talking about for years, and what what are still some of the stumbling blocks as to what we need to mature as an industry to really help unlock data. >> So, I mean, there's clearly the, what's driven a lot of the machine learning AI is the availability of data. It wasn't so much algorithms change dramatically, it was, we have a, so all the machine learning applications are really benefiting from this. But what we see as you know, some of the immediate things with our customers, is they're using big data as they create their front ends, engage with their customers. So how do they have the most up to date, real-time information to whether it's present an offer to a customer, provide customer service. So a lot of the use case we see is in that really bread and butter customer-level interactions and having an appropriate database to front end that process. >> Alright, so one of the biggest challenges of our time is really talking about distributed architecture. When I talk to companies scale comes on a lot, but it means very different things to different people. Can maybe talk about what you're hearing from customers, and how your solution helps customers for a variety of implementations. >> Yeah, so, we typically are targeting and working with customers in the 10s to 100s of terabytes. Up to, and our system handles up into into the petabytes. Typically, what we see is an evolution is, as I said earlier, somebody will develop a solution in a particular division, and then realize we've got this asset to protect. And then so IT starts to get involved and basically look at it holistically. So, we had one of our prospects, we went in and pitched at an SVP level and said, "what are the problems you're facing?" and it was basically this, I have all these silos of data. To get the maximum value out of them, and have a uniform look, whether it's look at our customers, the market, I need a uniform view to do my BI and AI. And so they brought us in and said, "Okay, paint a picture of how I can continue to have "these groups run autonomously and run their solutions, "yet at the same time, give me a unified view "and make me feel comfortable "that I've been able to protect the data, "move the data, massage the data." >> Great. Talk to me, when I look at this show, I see a lot of customers are still doing things, I'm trying to think how to say it nicely. Kind of the old way, it's like, if you look at them five years ago, is like, okay, Windows 2019's there great. I'll get there in five years, you play with a lot of more modern applications. What do you hear from customers? What, what is the profile of a customer that is, taking advantage and being competitive in the world? And what do you advise companies that maybe are a little bit behind the eight ball. >> So, you're right, and there's a really big spectrum of where people are in the adoption curve. And the way we look at it, if people were waiting for it, you know, when somebody goes, "Yeah, we're looking at setting up a big data system", it's like, okay, we'll talk to you in a year once you get the basics set up. But I see kind of two types of things. There's, say, the smaller, more aggressive companies, who are willing to move forward and say, "I just got to create a product, I don't care how I do it, "I don't have legacy issues." And they've moved ahead, and they're starting to get to the point where they're like, "Okay, we're mature enough where we actually need to spend on data management." The more typical case though is, as I said earlier. It's like these these new apps, that larger companies might have bleeding edge groups. So it's not being driven centrally. And so my, you asked about advice, right? So if you're sitting in the top of large enterprise and say, "Well, how do we get there. "There's kind of the tops down, "I need somebody to help me figure out." But there's also, let 1,000 flowers and let there be some kind of anarchy, if you will. Breaking the model, breaking the mold. Let people go build stuff and then over time start to figure out how to assimilate. So that'd be the biggest single biggest advice is, Yeah, you want to do the top down, but you really want to do the bottoms up. Because those people really know how to use the technology to provide a solution. >> Yeah, absolutely. Guy Kawasaki let 1,000 flowers bloom out there and everything. All right. Help bring this in. What kind of customer conversations are you having this week? We talked to the top about, there's real good energy to this show. Definitely, I felt that. What would you share with your peers that haven't been at the show? >> So the topics here are typically around the migration. Whether it's like to like, moving an existing workload into Azure, or the transformation. We also announced the show cooperation with Microsoft on moving any of your NoSQL workloads to Cosmos DB. So most of the conversations here have been related to migration. Either of, if you will, within the same Hadoop family, or, you know, like to unlike. Going from something to Cosmos DB. And that goes back to your earlier point about people trying to figure out what to do. They know there's this imperative to move to the cloud, and they're trying to figure out how they do it in bite-sized chunks. Right and protect their business at the same time. >> Yeah, so you mentioned Cosmos DB. We had an interview earlier this week about Cosmos DB. I definitely heard some good buzz at the show, What is it about that is drawing customers to it and what's that enable for them? >> Two things that I'm aware of, that I've seen is, again, the global nature and the ability to just kind of deploy anywhere. But also, I've seen a little bit around the dynamic schemas and the ability to map between them as a very quick way to ingest data. So you can get up and running quickly, instead of doing a lot of manual work to start using it. So those are things that are going to win developers 'cause it makes their life easier. >> Alright, John I want to give you the final word. What should we look to see from Imanis over the next six to 12 months. >> So we're going to continue to push forward with our platform around data management. You've seen in some recent announcements that, where leveraging machine learning in a very concrete way to do anomaly detection around ransomware. And also for administrators to be able to basically set rules or set goals and have the software do it. And that really steams from the fact that we're using a big data platform and machine learning to solve the problem of well, if you're running a big data platform, how do you manage the data? So the whole DNA of the company is built around that, and from a go-to-market standpoint, you know, partnering with folks like Cohesity and others where you've already got people in market selling a broad solution but they're missing a piece. So the other thing you'll see from us, is more partner announcements as we go forward. Alright, well, John Mracek really appreciate all the updates on a Imanis Data. Congrats on the progress so far. And look forward to catching with you up at future show. >> Great, thank you. >> Alright, we'll be back with more coverage here. Day three of three days live coverage. Microsoft Ignite here in Orlando. I'm Stu Miniman and thanks for watching theCUBE.

[Music] [Applause] welcome back everybody traffic here with the cube we're in our Palo Alto studios having a cube conversation the madness of the fall conference season is just over the horizon but hasn't it yet so we're excited we get some time to bring people into the studio and we're excited to have a mini time cube alone but he's never been to the studio before it's Franco farm the CMOS Blanc Brian great to see you great to be here this is amazing I could say how you like the day love it it's awesome it's nice you don't have to set up the lights every time like we do it at all the various shows so what's going on it's Blanc give us give us an update just had the quarterly or the quarterly announcement came out a month or so ago I wasn't into that before you came in another rock and roll revenue growth you guys just seemed to be hitting it time and time and time again on fire things are going great it's Blanc we just you know huge rounds of customer success lots of new products and technology I think it's been a big focus for us how do we continue to drive the innovation engine for security and for IT and really transform how you know as the leader in Big Data how we help our customers right super fun and from the marketing side you know we're driving an enormous amount of transformation I think you see this happening for CMOS everywhere their businesses are changing you know I fundamentally believe that the marketing department is the market department going through the most transformation right now Ramos or under the most pressure to change and so there's so much going on and how we're thinking about digital first how we're thinking about being data-driven Splunk on Splunk in many ways how we're using our own technology by our business and community which I know you guys are super passionate about here right who ended no a community but your kind of reputation when you came in is you're a data guy you like to measure the data you like to you know see how things are working not like you're your dad's old marketing department where you just kind of throw it up and write 50 percent of that budget is wasted we're just not sure which 50 percent yeah that was a great excuse for a long time you know I we talk about kind of hashtag math camp is one of the things we talk about a lot how do we think about leveraging data in everything that we do how do we get data-driven insights how do we have data-driven instrumentation and ultimately how are we using that to drive the marketing department I think what we're seeing so many places is first the accountability required and marketing is changing right you can no longer say if a 50-percent works I don't know what half its what's working right now for our customers and I you know we see the need to leverage data and digitization across businesses being a key part of that but we also can't lose sight in many ways of the need for community and the emotional connection that brands have with customers and I think one of the things no see the t-shirt that's right energy like one of the things we're doing really uniquely beyond being amazing at delivering big data solutions for our customers is creating that community in that connection building that emotion and doing that in a way where we can connect the dots from you know the relationship that we're building customer success and ultimately you know super happy and satisfied right customers and we've seen that we've been going to sponge-like compact who is my first cube gig in 2012 oh my god back at the Aria knows that the cosmos is the Cosmo so you guys have you know a super vibrant community really passionate and engaged and I don't know if it's by smart planning or circumstance or you know a little bit of both but you know kind of your play in the security market as the security market has just exploded yeah and using machine data which oh by the way has something to do with IOT and IOT so you know you guys are really well positioned sitting on all that machine generator you think about the roots around IT first right how do we help IT professionals find out what's going wrong with their systems and fix them as fast as possible they can really focus on customer outcomes taking those same patterns to security which you rightly acknowledge on fire super important board level issues and now we think about businesses going through digital evolution but they're iteratively trying to add more and more digital components you see it in the marketing department right we have better access to data so we can become more digital and as we see our customers evolve the patterns that were successful in IT and security now work in other parts of the business a great example this is a customer sample Yelp wait in Bay Area I don't know if for you if it's not on Yelp and I'm not looking at a review I can't eat there because it's too much risk but the they they were working through how did they improve the quality of the experiences customers have a food delivery it's not a mighty thing this so it's not security but it's how do you take their data and begin to investigate the root causes of issues right how do you then monitor and detect changes in those patterns and how do you automate and analyze the resolution with the end goal of very clearly having bet warmer food for customers right so it's been an amazing experience for them and if amazing outcomes and all of that is as more and more data explodes across the business you see Splunk adding value in every department so I'd love to get your take something we talk a lot about on the cube and you've been in the business for a long time before spunk as well and that's you know before data was really a liability it was expensive to gather it was expensive to store you had to buy a bunch of boxes and stick it in a data center and usually bought like 75% more than you needed in case you had a bump so it was really kind of a liability now obviously as you said data is a huge asset some would say the oil etc it's an asset but it's not measured on the balance sheet it's still not measuring on the balance sheet today so when you see some crazy valuations for a lot of companies say at Facebook or Google it's really a reflection of a multiple of the value of their data not necessarily just a multiple of the value their revenue or their earnings so as you work with your customers and as you measure kind of ROI on return of an investment say the Yelp investment it's a very different measure of ROI if the date if the investment on the data side is to drive better outcomes it's to drive more revenue is to drive maybe new product development innovation and yet again it's not really measured as an asset so how does that kind of play into how people decide to do projects how they measure the success of projects when it's it's not the cost center of it and that's the transformation that's happening right right digital is happening everywhere which really means data is happening everywhere and it's not just the structured data that we're used to it's all the unstructured data though data that people were unaware necessarily had enormous amounts of value certainly not balance sheet value but any value right right I think the world has realized in every department that that data has value and so those decisions on where to have projects if you will stems from that understanding and then the best way to evaluate it is what our customers doing right we're working with dahmer automotive company and their challenges were how do they secure you know their automotive systems their their plant systems and they had out there in the old world that was disconnected it was offline and as more and more of that becomes digital it's way easier to sort of take advantage of software like Splunk and apply it to those use cases and start to realize the value and the value at the end of the day comes from I'm solving a set of problems I'm more secure I'm happier customers I'm delivering better process I have faster time to resolution with my systems recovery and in marketing if you think about it from the CMO lens which could be you know it's really important we can start to tune you know our investments and the campaigns that we're running and the messages that we're using for the audience and it's particularly important in b2b marketing where you have a lot of data I put its longer sales cycles and I don't know you know I believe it's the CMO in many ways and the marketing department works for sales but it's our responsibility to drive the demand to help our business right but at the same time it's critical that we don't lose sight of that creates having that community that is so important to the loyalty that happens over time with brick right and that's another just such an interesting point right is back in the day you know the brand's controlled the messaging the brands controlled the information the brand's controlled the content that's no longer the case anymore by the time somebody inquires to you or participates in a campaign or shows a better spunk event or or goes to the website they've probably done some homework they've probably talked to their peers they've probably done some investigation on online and I know and I go online to investigate stuff I'm looking at the other people talking about the products that I'm interested not necessarily the company's product so it's a really different challenge from a CMO perspective to engage enable and help those people be your advocates while at the same time you don't really have this quite as control the message as you used to have back well hey that's actually I think a great thing right most customers are doing more due diligence on their own and I think there's there's research you can see research from others that say something to the effect of 60 or 70 percent of the decision-making process is occurring before they even engage the brand right and so once you recognize that how you tie all these things together becomes super important so I'll go back to community I don't want to over harp on it but that's the only way that you can effectively manage the unknown unknowns in that first 70% how do you get your customer advocates to tell their stories the value they're getting how do you make sure that the content that you think is relevant to the industry is out there you're contributing to it how do you in your just think about what you guys are doing right how do you distribute the value chain of content creation to more valuable individuals that then can tie back to organizations and how do you tie it the stories that we tell right right so I want to I want to test another hypothesis bite because again you're smart guys and we talk about a lot here which is really kind of classic old-school have a big number with some small conversion rate and that's your yield yep versus having a relatively small but targeted number with a much higher conversion rate because these are actually the people that care versus more of a kind of broadcasting yeah strategy are you seeing some of that are you trying to execute I think that's critical in the future of all marketing right the broad reach stuff is expensive it's really hard to measure the impact and yeah if you can do 10 million here and 50 basis points you'll get to some outcome but the world is pivoting to vary outcome driven right how many transactions that I Drive what's the value of those transactions or more importantly how successful were my customers that we care at Splunk deeply about getting the software adopting the software getting value from the software and so that has nothing to do with big broad you know hit a hundred million people right it's hit the right ten thousand people right pull them through a customer journey that starts with their research phase ultimately puts them through the adoption phase an incredibly successful way and that Tunes everything you're in best your philosophy what you reward because they think in the the older school model there was this belief that more is better right just do more what you're a successful company so what are you gonna do just do more more and more and more and more and more and you get these linear growth patterns on more and eventually that stops working because something else breaks and you realize that more wasn't actually doing anything it just felt good in the moment it was just more it was just more and it kept people busy and it was great it was great in those sense and so that's why measurement that's why being able to take your data and get value from your data and listen to your data is so critical in every department and marketing more than anyone else now has that data so you can be targeted I mean if I can tell you if I only touched five people and those five people became incredibly successful customers that's an amazing marketing campaign right with huge success yeah versus I ran a commercial during the Super Bowl and I touched you know 240 million people but no one bought any software you might feel good about that right but it isn't necessary driving the outcomes and the results and then b2b that's so critical yeah and obviously we're huge believers of that and also on the community side as well because you know we want to get peers you know your buyers peers talking about their experience with the product is very very different than reading your marketing brochure or those types of things so it's such a critical component I mean just with the Yelp example that's a pure concept that applies exactly the same to enterprise software community like community is critically but digital is the trend that's driving all the change right that gives you access to data which forces accountability into new parts of the organization that never really had it before no more excuses and now you have this incredibly new community driven model which never used to be important but actually to me is the lifeblood of the long-term investment that marketers are making right right the other thing that you guys have done a good job kind of growing with the times if you will and that's customers want choice and they want buying choice right so you guys have obviously adopted cloud you have more subscription type of opportunity so what if you could speak to you know from a marketer point of view you have to kind of repackage things you've got to look for funny arbitrage opportunity I kind of screwed things up in the market your channel partner conflict you have to kind of manage all these things but but the reality is people want to buy the way they want to buy and you have to give them the options that they expect to be there and I think that's really the big change is the expectation is there that you have those different types no one's successful in isolation any more any belief that one vendor and one product is the solution to all ills is policy and so you know there's two views there one is what are you doing from a technology innovation perspective and that's for us very clearly focused on making sure Splunk and all the software you already have work better together the sum of the parts should be greater right right and then from a marketing perspective it's recognizing you know how you can go to market how you can sell with all the partner in the ecosystem right this isn't a competitive conversation it's how do we make customers successful and so Splunk and salesforce is better because I can look at my Salesforce data I can use Splunk I can drive my organization that's what we're doing inside the house and we see customers starting to do it right Splunk in Hadoop it's not about the Hadoop ecosystem per se being separate those that that data Lake coupled with our software is a better solution and so it's Punk with all these different technologies together being more effective is critical right and it's exactly what you said customers have what they have they've made the investments that they've made they have great reasons for all those things and I want to augment their success with ourself right right it's such an exciting time to be to be in marketing especially in the movie space so give the last word Brian for we cut out here Spong kampf 2019 is good what are you just knock off 18 18 is coming up so what can we expect how many people what what should people be making sure they get registered and get them glad it's not 2019 yet yes I have like 15 months and so we're not starting the planning on that we are calm 18 it's our amazing user conference you are there in 2012 we're gonna have almost 10,000 people there it's in Orlando Florida October 1st to October 4th it's it's really it's an amazing experience it really focused on celebrating our amazing user community now demonstrating all the way innovations and then bringing them together to share share ideas which i think is really for me as someone who's only been a spunk for almost two years so exciting every one of our customers is using our software at Splunk in innovative ways and what we're seeing more and more is it's expanding outside of just IT insecurity and so as our customers talk to each other share ideas share use cases we see the lightbulb moments the aha moments if you will going off and that part is incredible right well we'll be there again so yeah we're looking forward to it all right Brian well thanks for taking a few minutes out of your day on a Friday to it to stop by thanks for having me it's awesome a pleasure he's brian i'm jeff you're watching the cube we're in palo alto studios thanks for watching see you next time [Music] you

(upbeat music) >> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Fortinet Accelerate 18. Brought to you by Fortinet. >> Welcome back to theCUBEs continuing coverage of Fortinet Accelerate 2018. I'm Lisa Martin here in Las Vegas with my co-host Peter Burris and we're excited to welcome a Cuba alumni back to theCUBE, please welcome Eric Kohl, the VP of Advanced Solutions from Ingram Micro. Welcome back! >> Thank you, thanks for having me back. Excited to be here. >> Yes, we're very excited. So tell us, what's new? We talked to you last year at this event, what's new and Ingram? Tell us about your role there and the things that are all exciting Ingram Micro. >> Yeah, brand-new for me. I'm in my 20th year at Ingram Micro. I lead our security practice for Ingram Micro U.S. and I have responsibility for sales, vendor management, strategy and execution on behalf of our manufacturer partners. It's a ever evolving space. It's such a great space to be in, I love watching the news every day. You know there's going to be some big logo but just as much fun as I have watching those, that's some of these small breaches that you don't hear about and it's just fascinating. So much more exciting than virtualization. (laughs) >> Some might argue with that. So tell us about the partnership that you guys have with Fortinet. How has that evolved over your time there? >> Yeah so been at Ingram for 10 and I've been working with Fortinet for, I'm sorry I've been at Ingram for 20 and been with Fortinet for over 10, back to when we signed the contract together. Just a very great partnership. They're our security partner of the year, last year. Good friends, excited to see John Bove back leading channels back to Fortinet and you know, we both invest in each other's success and so I think that's pretty unique. Huge investment for them here, having an event like this. Not every company does it but to bring everybody together where you can have security conversations get on the same page, it's extremely valuable, huge investment, and we're proud to be a sponsor. >> I'd love to chat about a little bit of the evolution that you've seen at Fortinet in the last 10 years as we look at, you mentioned breaches. I mean, there were some very notable things that happened in 2017. How have you seen the evolution from them on a security transformation standpoint as it relates to your customers and digital transformation. >> Yeah, so I mean it's something that we see every day from you know, as you know we sell to and through partners but you know, one thing obviously is their breath of solutions has expanded. But you know, also things that partners are asking us today is how is this technology being consumed? And in the face of digital transformation, that's a huge value point because ultimately we want to help our partners to architect, recommend the right technology to solve that business problem and then how do you want to consume it? How does your want to your client want to consume that? So I think that's one of the biggest kind of trends that we're seeing right now. >> So as you think about where you've come from to where you are and we'll talk a little bit about where you think might go, what were the stories you told about security 10 years ago? And how are they different from the stories you're telling about security today? >> I would say it's changed from my perspective because at Ingram, we have never ever been a services company like we are today. And so what I mean by that is, we wrap our services, partner services around the Fortinet solution to make it stronger. 10 years ago I would say we are living more in the traditional distribution role of hey, how do we get a box from here to there? Certainly channel enablement, we've been doing that for a long time but our offering of services to help drive demand is incredibly strong. You know, we work with Fortinet for example, on their threat assessment program and we have an engineer that can go and help. Our partners understand to do that, it's a huge partner ecosystem and so we've got to help them with all those channel enablement efforts. >> What are some of the biggest security challenges that you're hearing, say in the last year or so through the channel, that your partnership with Fortinet can help address? >> You know, it's all around complexity and that as you have likely heard that the shortage of folks that can get out and do some of these services have limitations. There's incredibly high demand for services, you know we're serving a channel ecosystem of roughly 12,000 companies that are buying security technology from us, all with varying degrees of capability and so we've really got to help them understand, hey, how can we help you deploy these services, etc. >> So as you imagine then the steps associated with helping the customer, the roles and relationships between Fortinet, Ingram, and your partners also must be evolving. So how is, as a person responsible for ensuring that that stays bound together in a coherent way for customers, how are you seeing that changing? >> Well you know, look it's a three-legged stool. (laughs) It's us, it's Fortinet and that's our partner community and we're reliant on each other to go and be successful in the market. Look, we couldn't be as great as we are working with our Fortinet channel ecosystem if we didn't have the support of Fortinet, the investments they make, the team that they have wrapped around our business, the team we've put in place wrapped around their business so that's kind of what I'm seeing there. >> They shared a lot of momentum not only in the keynotes this morning but also a number of the guests that we've had on the show today in terms of what Fortinet achieved last year. 1.8 billion in billing, nearly 18 thousand new customers acquired, a lot of momentum, a lot of numbers, I love that theme of the event today. So if we look at some of the things that were shared by Kenzie this morning for example, like I mentioned that the customer numbers and even talking about what they're doing to protect 90% of customers in the global S&P 100 and showed some some big brands there. Tell us a little bit about the partnership and how you're leveraging the momentum of what Fortinet is able to do in terms of capturing customers. How does that momentum translate and really kind of maybe fuel Ingram and what you're able to do? >> Well look, I mean there's incredible demand in security today. There was a slide that they showed this morning and I think it was the perfect storm. I like to call the security space a beautiful disaster. It's a mess, it's complicated, it's scary, the threat attacks are you know new and different and they're never going to stop but it again comes back to hey, how do we work together to kind of harness this? How do we go and there's a great partner community here, lots of our friends are here but they can't all be here. So we want to be able to help take that message out to our channel partners that were not here. Things like that. >> What are some of, oh sorry, go ahead Peter. >> I was going to say so Ingram, Ingram itself has changed. You said you've now, are now introducing security or you're introducing more services. So how is that.. How is security leading that charge to move from a more of a product and a distributor to now services? Is security one of the reasons why Ingram is going in that direction? >> It's one of them. I joked on virtualization but there's a lot of services that we can wrap around and I think, obviously there's a high demand of services and we will lead with Fortinet services and solutions where we can. We want our partners to lead with theirs but really we've hired people to go out do assessments. We have a partner ecosystem where, hey I can't get down to New Mexico to do an install. We have a partner network where they can tap into that and make sure that everything is installed correctly, all the features are turned on. You think about all these breaches that happen in the news, it's not that they didn't have the technology, they missed an alert or they didn't have it all deployed. We want to be able to help our partners solve for that. >> Along the partnership front, what are some of the things that excite you about the Fabric-Ready Partner Program and the announcements they've made today? >> Yeah, love it. Look Fortinet has built comprehensive end-to-end solutions within their Fortinet, I'm sorry, for their Fabric ecosystem but they've also recognized that they can't do it all alone and so they've introduced a lot of partners into that. And so what's exciting for me, leading our security category is, hey how do we bring new partners into our ecosystem too? Because it is a differentiator for Ingram to be able to provide multi-vendor solutions. To have somebody you can go to to say, how does SentinelOne work with for Fortinet Fabric? Those types of things, those conversations are happening all the time. >> Another thing that was announced today was what they're doing with with AI. Tell us a little bit about that and how are you seeing what they're going to be able to do with AI as an advantage for your partners and customers. >> Again the artificial intelligence, machine learning, it all goes back to making the technology easier to use. I still think, you think intelligence and I think back to the human factor. Some of these big breaches, look the threat actors are going to get in but how you recover from a breach, I think if we could inject some artificial intelligence into some of these companies that haven't figured out how to successfully pivot. You know paying your hacker a hundred thousand dollars to keep quiet is not the answer but I think that some of these machine learning things are going to make it easier. It's going to be easier to manage the alerts that are happening every day. So anything that helps eliminate, as they said today, the enemy of security is complexity. Things that help to discover these threats and remediate against them, all good stuff for our partners. >> On the enablement side, when we were talking with the channel chief, John Bove, earlier today and talking about sort of this long history of partner focused culture at Fortinet. Tell us about that in terms of the enablement that you're able to glean from them and then pass on to your channels in terms of selling strategies, marketing to, marketing through. What are some of the things that-- >> Look, we have an amazing team. John Bove, Curt Stratton, the folks that really spent so much time working with Ingram and then we've built an amazing team. I think we have 12 people from our company here at this event to make sure we're making the most out of it but you know. If you heard, we're at The Cosmo. They have Secret Pizza, have you been there? Have you heard about it? >> Lisa: No, Secret Pizza? >> Yeah, it's amazing, it's pretty good, okay. (laughs) >> You didn't bring any, I noticed that but continue. >> I didn't but it's secret not-so-secret pizza but we have some secret not so secret weapons. Jenna Tombolesi an NSE 7. She's one of the highest certified engineers on the planet and she works for Ingram Micro helping to technically enable some of our partners. We've got a guy by the name of Will The Thrill Sharland and The Thrill is out talking to partners every single day, helping them to be more profitable, trusted security advisors helping them through anything you can imagine from a channel enablement perspective. And then just huge teams of people that we go to serve this big market together. >> Are you seeing any vertical specificities? When Ken was sharing some slides this morning, they were talking about, they showed some verticals from a kind of market share perspective but I'm curious some of the verticals that kind of come to mind where security is concerned that maybe are a little bit more elevated than some of the others in terms of risk or health care education and financial services. Maybe Fed, SLED, are you seeing any verticals in particular, maybe those that are really going to be kind of having to be leading-edge, where security transformation is concerned? >> They have to be. Think about health care and when they're big ransomware attack hit last year. There's guys on CNN saying, they had to postpone my surgery because ransomware head. I mean that's life-and-death stuff there but I don't think there's any vertical that's immune to what's going on today. So I think you know regardless of your vertical, you have to be prepared, you have to choose the right technology, and choose the right partner to help you implement it. >> If you imagine where Ingram's going to go with this relationship, what kinds of things are you looking to be able to do as a consequence of great strong partnership with Fortinet. >> Look, the way that companies want to consume technology is changing in the space of digital transformation. Once we work with Fortinet and the partner to recommend the right technology and I mentioned this, like how do you want to consume it? Is it public cloud, is it AWS, or Azure? We have an answer for that today is that hey, it's on premise but I need some creative financing to help close this deal to solve a budget constraint. We have an answer for that. There's several variations of that but however that technology wants to be consumed, we have an answer together. So I think that's a testament to the strength of our relationship. >> And I think one of the words that I saw in, at least one of the press releases, was adaptability. Adaptability of some of the technologies and even John Madison was kind of talking about how customers can go, I've got 20-plus security products, how do I start this Fabric? And that word adaptability kind of jumped out at me as how do you enable adaptability when your customers, through the channel, have so many technologies in place and how does Fortinet help that adaptation? >> I would say they're placing bets like we are on top partners that are going to lead with that technology. They've got to go be the experts in that field and really start driving that. Events like this help get everybody on the same page, understand the new offerings. I mentioned Jenna, she was locked in a room all day yesterday all excited about all these things. She's been running around all day but look we've just got to help the channel understand what the new technologies are, what are the new offerings, and hey, how do we go solve that customer problem together. >> So are there any particular new approaches or tactics or techniques that you're using to get the channels to understand better? >> I don't think that there's anything necessarily new. We're all driving towards the same common goal. Having a security conversation today is easier than ever before so you know, I think we're we're going to continue doing what we've been doing. It's been very successful for us but that's, you know. >> What are some of the things, kind of wrapping up here, that you're looking forward to throughout the rest of 2018? We're kind of still in the first quarter calendar, some big announcements from your partner here today. What are some of the things that excite you at Ingram about the year of 2018? >> Look, it's a market that's that's really ripe right now and I think that when you talk about their new technologies, when you talk about the machine learning, there's a lot of these things happening out there. It's just look, we've got a huge market. The potential is unlimited and I think one area where we're really going to drill down this year is down market, down SMB in mid market because they need enterprise grade technology and Fortinet delivers that and has a history of delivering that. So I think we're going to double click down there together this year and John and his team have been great around putting some programs together for us to go and tackle that together. >> Excellent, well we thank you so much Eric for stopping by theCUBE again. >> Yes and I'll bring pizza next time. >> Please do. >> All right. >> Yes and maybe some beverages so we don't have dry throats. >> Of course, yes. >> So we wish you and Ingram the best of luck in this next year and we look forward to talking to you next year, if not sooner. >> Sounds good. Great, thank you. >> We want to thank you for watching theCUBE's continuing coverage of Fortinet Accelerate 2018. For Peter Burris, I'm Lisa Martin, after the short break we'll be right back. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live, from Manhattan. It's theCUBE! Covering AWS Summit New York City 2017. Brought to you by Amazon web services. >> And welcome back here on theCUBE. The flagship broadcast of SiliconANGLE TV where our colleague John Furrier likes to say we extract the signal from the noise. Doing that here at AWS Summit here in midtown along with Stu Miniman. I'm John Walls and we're joined now by Ben Newton who's the analytics lead at Sumo Logic. And I said Ben, what is an analytics lead? If you were to give me the elevator speech on that? You said you're the geek who stays up all night and fiddles with stuff. >> That's why I joined Sumo Logic. I love finding the things that other people didn't find. And when I first joined, I was staying up until 2:00 a.m. every night playing around with the data. My wife started getting worried about me. (laughter) But that was the path that I set on. >> You're the guy that looks at the clouds and sees the man's nose, right? >> Yeah exactly, exactly. >> It's just it's in data that's all. >> Yeah, yeah. >> So I hear this concept. But we'll jump in here about continuous intelligence, right? >> Ben: Yeah. >> It's machine data and there's just this constant stream. I mean, how do you see that? How do you define that? And how does that play with how you, what you do? >> Yeah, no absolutely. So, I've been around a little while. And when I started out, there was a particular set of problems we were trying to solve. You know, we had the $100,000 Sun Microsystem servers. You drop 'em on the floor, somebody gets fired. But it was a very particular problem set. What's happened now is that the market is really changing. And so, the amount of data is just growing exponentially. So I kind of have my own conjoined triangle slide that I like to show people. But basically, things are getting smaller and smaller and smaller. We're going from these monolithic services to microservices, IOT. And the scale is just getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And what that means is that the amount of data being produced is it's bigger than anyone ever imagined. I was just looking up some numbers that Barkley says it's going to be 16 zettabytes. I had to look that up. That's a billion terabytes by 2020. That's like watching the whole Netflix catalog 30 million times. (laughter) That's the amount of data that customers are dealing with and that's what's exciting about this space I think. >> So, I remember at Re:Invent. You see Sumo's like the booth when you walk in. They actually had sumo wrestlers one year. (laughter) Remind me, just wrestling. I've got all that data. How do I take advantage of that? How do I democratize the analytics on data? What are the big challenges? You said customers used to be dropping a server on the floor. How are they getting their arms around this? How are they really leveraging their data? And leveraging analytics more? >> Yeah, I got to wrestle one of those sumos. (laughter) He let me win a little bit. (laughter) And then it was over. >> Did you have to wear the outfit? >> Luckily no. That was good for everybody. Yeah, you know, I think ... A few years ago, it was all about big data. And it was all about how much data they could get in. And I think you saw some announcements from AWS today. Really people are getting their hands around it. Now it's all about fast data. Like what can I do in real time? And that's what people are struggling with. They have this massive amount of data that's just sitting there unused. And people weren't actually getting value out of to drive the business. And that's really the next goal I think over the next few years is how can our customers and these companies get more value out of data they have without having to invest in all this costly infrastructure to do it? >> I think a few years ago, it was big data. I'm going to take the compute and I'm going to move it to the data. >> Yeah. >> Now, last year at Re:Invent, talked to a lot of the companies. They're working with Hadoop and the like, and they said the data lakes are now in the public cloud. >> Ben: Yes. >> But now I've got edge computing. I kind of have the data side, the public cloud, and the edge. And I'm never going to get all my data in the same place so how am I managing all of those various pools of data? >> Ben: Yeah. >> How do I make sure I get the right data in the right place so I can make the decisions that I need to when I need to? >> Yeah, it's a good question. So, a lot of what we're trying to do now is trying to help customers get the data in the way they want it. Just like you said. So, before, it might have been about here's our standard way. And here's our agent. You go install that. Now we're trying to provide ways for them to get the data in they want. We're providing APIs and basically trying to move towards becoming more of a platform. So the customers are sending us with third party tools they like. Because I was talking to one of my developers. And I asked him, if somebody came and said to you, you need to change the way you produce your data to use this product, what is he going to say? And he used a four letter word I can't repeat. That's how they think about it. They don't want to have to change the way they do things. So what we do is we provide lots of different ways of getting from multiple clouds from multiple tools. Open source tools. We don't care. Making it as easy as possible to get the data in. >> You know, if Stu and I were different clients of yours. What matters to Stu is much different that what matters to me, right? So how do you go about helping determine access to data in a context that I want it, >> Ben: Yeah. as opposed to the data that Stu wants at the time that he wants it? Cause it's just not about finding real time stuff, right? It's about also finding value at it. >> Ben: Yeah. >> And helping me put action to it. >> You know absolutely John. So I think there's a couple different ways. One is making it easy to get the data in like we just talked about. Another way is actually building a COSMO that matches how you use the data. The typical way that analytics tools have done it in the past, including us before, was kind of a one size fits all model. So last year we announced our unified logs and metric product which was trying to appeal to long term trending. And so now, what we're moving towards as well is providing a model that allows our customers, we call it cloud flex. It allows them to organize their data in the way that makes the most sense. So, maybe you want to keep your security data for a year. But you want to keep your operational data for seven days. That's fine. But organizing the way that makes most sense to you and match your cost to your data. I mean, this is the path that I think AWS has really set. That we're basically meeting customers where they're at. Allowing them to use it. And the second thing is also making easy for their customers to get to that data. And use it in the way they like. So you can make it easy to get in, cost efficient model, and then make it really easy for the user to get to that data. >> Ben, who are you working with the most? Maybe you're working across all these but Amazon was talking a lot about the data scientist this morning. All the ETL challenges >> Yeah. >> that are happening. I know there's a big boost for developers. I expect there's probably something with Lambda >> Yeah. >> that you're involved in. But what are some of those hot button issues that you're seeing across some of the customer roles? >> Sure, sure. I think one thing where you say that with data scientist. I mean we all know that there's a data scientist shortage. We have data scientists at Sumo Logic. They're hard to find. And so part of this is making it, one of the hot button issues is can I get people that don't have that background access to the data? And so, I may want to geek out and write inquiries and staying up to 2:00 a.m. writing that. Most people don't. That's (mumble), right? Not surprising. >> Stu: Right. >> So, a lot of that is how can you make it easier for our developers for example that have another job to do. This is not their main job. To get access to that data and use it. And so for example, one of the things we've done for customers we did for ourselves at Sumo is even making that data accessible to other parts of the business. So for example, our sales reps at Sumo Logic actually use that data to drive the customer interactions. So they can go to a customer and say, hey, we're seeing how you're using a tool. We think you could get value out of these other five things. And work with them in a constructive way. For example, a couple of other clients I've worked with. They're actually using the data in their marketing departments and their sales departments and putting this up on the wall so that other parts of the business are getting access to it beyond dev ops and IT ops, which is huge value to them, right? >> Sumo, I'm just curious. Sumo Logic, umm, where from the name? What's the genesis of that? >> Well the official story is that it's about Sumo, big data. The real story is that our founder Christian loves dogs. And he has a dog named Sumo. And so, it really fit well. It fit the name cause of big data but it also it fit it because he had a >> Alright. >> he had a dog named Sumo. >> I'll buy that. Just curious. Ben, thanks for being with us. We appreciate the time here on theCUBE and you could have taken him I know, if you really wanted to. >> I appreciate that. >> You could have, no doubt. (laughter) Ben Newton. Analytics lead at Sumo Logic joining us here on theCUBE. Back with more from AWS Summit in New York right after this break. (upbeat techno music)