>>Hello, everyone. Welcome to the cubes presentation of the AWS partner showcase. This is season one, episode two. I'm your host, John furry with the cube. I'm joined by two cube alumni as Andy Langston, SVP and GM at Veem and Sabina Joseph, the general manager of technology partners at AWS. We're here talking about speeding the innovation with AWS. Welcome to the show. >>Ready to meet you >>And good to see you, Andy again. >>Great to have you guys back on. I hope you guys are doing well. Great to see both of you Veem. Obviously we've been covering you guys for a long time. You got your VIMANA event coming up in person, which is great. Congrats on the continued success of the company and the product you guys have always been all in on AWS. We've been covering for many, many years. Andy, what's the innovation going on now at Veem? Lots of lots happening, lots going on. What's the new innovation. >>Well, I think, you know, clearly people are in, you know, when we talk to people they're interested in, in ransomware, so ransomware protection, we they're interested in a hybrid cloud hybrid. Um, you know, AWS in particular, we get a lot of interest there. Um, clearly modern data protection, uh, what we're doing in office 365, people are looking at all those things >>And what's the, the platform, uh, approach that you guys have with AWS. You guys have a broad range. It's not just the classic. I call it the green classic solution. That's also a good product. What's some of the new platform advantages you guys got going on with the cloud native with AWS. >>Well, you know, look we are, our strategy is to protect as many AWS services as possible, you know, and, and, you know, from the ECE to EBS, S3, RDS, uh, VMC, and many of the services that they're coming out with. And in many times they come to us and say, Hey, you know, these are important to us. We'd like you to, to support these. So clearly we're, um, we're focused on those, uh, Kubernetes workloads is, is a newer set of workloads on AWS. That we're a very interested, we made an acquisition and have a product called, uh, Kasten that we've been investing in and working with AWS with their, uh, uh, EKS anywhere. So very excited. >>Great. So being on the partnership, you guys, it's growing a lot's going on. Can you tell us more about how Veeam and abs AWS are jointly helping customers? >>Yeah. As, um, as both of, you know, right. Data is exploding. And, uh, that means, you know, we have to keep backing up this data and finding new ways to back up this data because people are stepping away from the traditional backup methods, tape libraries, secondary storage sites and things like that. And they're backing up data into the cloud. And we AWS offers a number of different storage services, data transfer methods and networking solutions, which provide unmatched your ability, reliability, security. And of course, uh, AWS and Veem have been partnering together enough for quite a number of years and the cost effective. And so you mentioned that Veem has on AWS really enables customers to have offsite storage solutions, providing that physical separation between their on premises, primary data, and also utilizing the pay as you go cloud economics. So we have a great collaboration and, you know, beam has a great solution on AWS and they're constantly innovating and providing capabilities for our customers. Just like Andy said, providing as many capabilities for our services to back up, >>Andy, the volume of data I'll say is always the story. Every year, the volume is tsunami of data. It's getting worse it's every day. Um, and as you got more cloud scale, you guys have been doing a lot integration. You guys always have, you have demanding customers, you have a lot of customers actually. So as you leverage Amazon for data protection, the security conversation is front and center these days. Can you give us an update on how you guys are doing, uh, the data protection security in the cloud with AWS? That's, that's, um, that's hot with your customers, >>You know, it's a great, it's a great comment. You know, you've talked about a lot of customers. Veem has over 400,000 customers now it's, it's truly extraordinary when you think about the size and scope and scale. And if you think, uh, my belief is a majority, almost all of them will tear up two and move their data up into the cloud at some point in our, in the next few years. And so we've just, I think we've described the surface and we're moving hack, you know, hundreds of petabytes or more per year up to the cloud at the same time when I make customer executive calls. It's kind of interesting. A lot of times you think they're going to want to talk about backup and disaster recovery. They want to talk about security. And when this first started happening, I thought, Hey, why don't you talk to your security vendor now? >>And what I realized was that data protection is front and center because of the, we just, we just published a study where a number jumped out at me, 71% of the thousands of people that responded said that they had already been a victim of, or had had a ransomware attack. It's a staggering number. And, um, so, you know, when we look at our relationship with Amazon and we look at the integration we've done around what we call cloud during that's moving, are moving data up to object storage. AWS has a capability called immutable data sets. And so that allows you affords you some great protection against ransomware as an example. And that's one of the areas that we're investing in very heavily. And by the way, our mutual customers are backing up and restoring with Veem and we're doing it on AWS and, and, uh, the data volumes are exploding, I think, because of that. Yeah. >>You know, it's interesting. And you made me have a throwback for, you know, 10 years ago, we used to talk about backup and recovery. And you know, the big thing back then was, was the conversation was don't think of backup as a, as a last minute thing, think of it at the front end, it was always kind of an afterthought and a, of the it decision makers. And you mentioned that security comment about call your security vendor. It's almost the scripts has flipped backup and recovery is the security solution. And so it's not, it's not an afterthought. This is 10 years ago. It was the primary message. It's the primary thought. So when you talk about automated tiering, that's kind of a networking thing. It's like, policy-based hearing. I mean, I mean, if you go back 10 years and we're talking, policy-based hearing, you were like, what? So this is a really different dynamic. And I want you guys to comment because this is the, this is the market right now. This is with the flip, the script has flipped. >>Yeah. Sabina. What do you, what, what do you from y'all's perspective kind of in, in your technology, partnerships, storage vendors, Veem security, what, what do you w what do you see? >>Well, I think that there is an interplay here because I think customers are looking at various ways, right? When I look at those five cybersecurity framework, right? First is identifying what you need to protect, protecting it. And then that's a very important step of, out of those five steps is recovery, right? How do you get your business back to normal? But you cannot do that if you are not protecting and backing up your data. And that's where our partnership comes in. Right? So I believe that all of those five stages in the NIST cybersecurity framework kind of go together and be in place nicely into the very critical phase of recovery. Would you agree, Andy? >>I would. You know, and, and I look at, um, you know, when you're doing a recovery and your gut, your secure backups and AWS, it's, it's like your last line of defense, you know, beam and AWS deliver a mutable backups and has three tiers through S3 object lock integration. And I think that's, that's pretty much, you know, even if a ransomware attack is successful, we can, we can ensure that the backup data hadn't been changed and encrypted or deleted. And, uh, that's pretty exciting, you know, for customers and prospects, they're really worried about this. And I think the teamwork and the, the, the partnership between the two companies to build a solution like this is pretty awesome. >>Yeah. Let me, let me just double, double click on that for a second. You mentioned it got a lot of customers. Ransomware does not discriminate with the size of the company. It could be, it could be a hospital school. It could be a big company. Ransomware is bad, and we see that, and it's a great conversation. And how do you take that solution out to the customers? You got hundreds of thousands of customers. So Sabine, I guess the question is, how is this 80 of us in Veem work together? There's this channel first concept you guys are talking about, tell us about how you guys work together, because there's millions of customers who want this, and you guys actually have hundreds of thousands of customers that Veem, how do you get the customers to leverage that, the relationship and what can you bring to them? >>Yeah, I'll give you like four numbers, right? So AWS has millions of customers and we have, um, hundred thousand partners across 150 countries. Now Veem has, as Andy mentioned, right, has over 400,000 customers and 35,000 partners worldwide. So somewhere in these four numbers, we all intersect both of us intersect both on those customers and also on those partners. And one of the initiatives that my team is heavily focused on is triangulating between the partners that Veeam has. We have, and also our technology partnership. And how can we provide value to our customers by bringing together these partners together with AWS Veeam and Veeam is a V it's a hundred percent channel driven business, and they know how to do this. That is why we are heavily partnered with them to see what we can do for our customers through our mutual partner. >>And he wants you to weigh in here, you know, the channel business, it's gotta be easy, it's got to add value. And I got to wrap services around it. That's what partners love. Well, how does this work? How does that work? >>Well, I, I think to extend beyond what, what did take, what Sabina had said is, you know, we have kind of been subsetted. Our partners are the ones that, that do business with AWS and, and which is a exploding number of partners. And so they have a relationship database. We have a relationship at S and we have this solution set that have, are of interest to our customers through these partners. And AWS has customers through these partners. And so a lot of times we'll share, um, information and customers, uh, information on, around, um, how we can kind of go to these customers who are both AWS customers and Veem customers and market, this joint solution protect them from ransomware. >>And how's it been going so far? What's your, what's your assessment? >>It's been fantastic. I think the, I think one of the, the, the real proof points is that we've moved, uh, over a half a petabyte of data, you know, uh, recently up into their cloud. And, uh, you know, that says that people not only are using the solution, but they're, uh, they're actually delivering on it. >>Well, why got you here, Andy, I want to ask you for the, all the people watching the customers, what's the biggest change that's happening in this market right now. Again, I love this shift that we're seeing backup and recovery. Isn't a point solution anymore. It's the solution it's baked in, and everyone's talking about this, it's integrated in, it's not, it's, it's totally front and center. What's the big change that customers should be thinking about now as they move forward. And, uh, obviously ransomware is still front and center. That's not going away anytime soon. What's the big thing to focus on for customers? >>Well, I think, you know, I always say, you know, listen to the customer and focus on what their specific needs are, right? You can assume, obviously in the business war and everybody, everybody has a backup solution. And, uh, so you're not trying to create a market there, but like I said, you know, people are very focused on security. They're focused on cost, they're focus on skillset or lack of skill sets, right? I mean, we have a shortage of skills in the industry. So we try to make our products easy to use. We try to work with our partners, putting AWS to deliver the best solution we can for our customers. And, uh, you know, I think we have the broadest invest, you know, ransomware protection, uh, and recovery in the storage space. And so we're very focused on that, leveraging all of our technologies across the platforms, physical, virtual Kubernetes, uh, type environments. >>And you have this and you get the beam on event coming up and that's going to be good in person. Right. That's a confirmed, >>It's a, it's a, it's a hybrid yet. In-person and virtual. >>Awesome. Great to see you guys in person. So being a, for the folks, watching the Amazon partnerships, as you guys scale up these, these partnerships and take it the next level, what's your, what's your closing comment. Yes. >>Yeah. I also want to say, write something that I should mention, right. We miss also invested in AWS marketplace. So it's not just the direct consulting partners and the partners that I mentioned, the a hundred thousand and 35,000, right. They, customers can also purchase beam on AWS marketplace through consulting partner, private offers. And that's why Viva's embraced many of these aspects to try to help our customers and continue to grow that 400,000 customer base, which is a pretty phenomenal number. >>Yeah. I've always been impressed with beam's customer base and they've got a very loyal base as well. I point that out and give props to the VM team. Andy closing comments for you, the V natives relationship, how would you summarize that? >>I'd say it's fantastic. You know, years ago it started as just a normal technology partnership. You know, now we're an advanced technology partner with storage competency, numerous programs like APN, uh, customer engagement. We're a marketplace seller. And I would say that it's not only that, but, but customers can take advantages of their, um, EDP with AWS to purchase on the marketplace and get credits against that. And our partners can as well. That's a, that's a very important thing because we're seeing more and more interest in that today. Uh, we're a public sector partner with them. We're an ISV accelerate SAS revenue recognition program. We're, we're, uh, I think we're checking a lot of boxes, but really taking advantage of it. The last thing I would say is, uh, I've known Sabina for quite a few years now. And I think it's the people relationships in the two companies that make this work. >>We have a lot of people, a lot smarter than me on the, on the speeds and feeds here. But at the end of the day, um, Sabina has a team of people that work with us on a, on a, almost a daily basis to solve customer problems. Right. We get people calling in all the time. How do I make Veem work on AWS? How do I get AWS solutions to work with theme? And our job is to make it as easy as possible because we both believe, uh, that customers, they say customer first. I always say, customer always are always right, but, but, but, but you know, at the end of the day, that's what makes this >>Yeah. Customer is always right. Customer obsession, working backwards from the customer fucking customer first Sabina. This is really interesting. This is a good point. I just come quick, go back to you real quick. This integration of relationships and also cloud technology integration is a big theme this year, post re-invent. Your thoughts >>Absolutely means, um, uh, to be candid. Uh, one of the goals that me and my team take is how do we bring technology partners together to add more value to our customers in end to end solutions, along with technology partners and consulting partners. So that is a huge focus for us because we need to do that in order to scale, not just for each other, but also for our customers and bring that, bring together meaningful, comprehensive end to end solutions. >>That's awesome. Andy, great to see you. We'll see at Veem on as well, coming up for the Veem show and your conference. You've been conference hybrid conference in person and virtual and digital to be in a great to see you again. Thanks for sharing all the great updates. And this is the season two. It's all about the data and the innovations with AWS. I'm John for your host of the cube season one episode, two of the AWS partner showcase. Thanks for watching.

>>Earlier this week, Oracle announced the new X nine M generation of exit data platforms for its cloud at customer and legacy on prem deployments. And the company made some enhancements to its zero data loss, recovery appliance. CLRA something we've covered quite often since its announcement. We had a video exclusive with one Louisa who was the executive vice president of mission critical database technologies. At Oracle. We did that on the day of the announcement who got his take on it. And I asked Oracle, Hey, can we get some subject matter experts, some technical gurus to dig deeper and get more details on the architecture because we want to better understand some of the performance claims that Oracle is making. And with me today is Susan. Who's the vice president of product management for exit data database machine. Bob tome is the vice president of product management for exit data cloud at customer. And Tim chin is the senior director of product management for DRA folks. Welcome to this power panel and welcome to the cube. >>Thank you, Dave. >>Can we start with you? Um, Juan and I, we talked about the X nine M a that Oracle just launched a couple of days ago. Maybe you could give us a recap, some of the, what do we need to know? The, especially I'm interested in the big numbers once more so we can just understand the claims you're making around this announcement. We can dig into that. >>Absolutely. They've very excited to do that. In a nutshell, we have the world's fastest database machine for both LTP and analytics, and we made that even faster, not just simply faster, but for all LPP we made it 70% faster and we took the oil PPV ops all the way up to 27.6 million read IOPS and mind you, this is being measured at the sequel layer for analytics. We did pretty much the same thing, an 87% increase in analytics. And we broke through that one terabyte per second barrier, absolutely phenomenal stuff. Now, while all those numbers by themselves are fascinating, here's something that's even more fascinating in my mind, 80% of the product development work for extra data, X nine M was done during COVID, which means all of us were remote. And what that meant was extreme levels of teamwork between the development teams, manufacturing teams, procurement teams, software teams, the works. I mean, everybody coming together as one to deliver this product, I think it's kudos to everybody who touched this product in one way or the other extremely proud of it. >>Thank you for making that point. And I'm laughing because it's like you the same bolt of a mission-critical OLT T O LTP performance. You had the world record, and now you're saying, adding on top of that. Um, but, okay. But, so there are customers that still, you know, build the builder and they're trying to build their own exit data. What they do is they buy their own servers and storage and networking components. And I do that when I talk to them, they'll say, look, they want to maintain their independence. They don't want to get locked in Oracle, or maybe they believe it's cheaper. You know, maybe they're sort of focused on the, the, the CapEx the CFO has him in the headlock, or they might, sometimes they talk about, they want a platform that can support, you know, horizontal, uh, apps, maybe not Oracle stuff, or, or maybe they're just trying to preserve their job. I don't know, but why shouldn't these customers roll their own and why can't they get similar results just using standard off the shelf technologies? >>Great question. It's going to require a little involved answer, but let's just look at the statistics to begin with. Oracle's exit data was first productized in Delaware to the market in 2008. And at that point in time itself, we had industry leadership across a number of metrics. Today, we are at the 11th generation of exit data, and we are way far ahead than the competition, like 50 X, faster hundred X faster, right? I mean, we are talking orders of magnitude faster. How did we achieve this? And I think the answer to your question is going to lie in what are we doing at the engineering level to make these magical numbers come to, uh, for right first, it starts with the hardware. Oracle has its own hardware server design team, where we are embedding in capabilities towards increasing performance, reliability, security, and scalability down at the hardware level, the database, which is a user level process talks to the hardware directly. >>The only reason we can do this is because we own the source code for pretty much everything in between, starting with the database, going into the operating system, the hypervisor. And as I, as I just mentioned the hardware, and then we also worked with the former elements on this entire thing, the key to making extra data, the best Oracle database machine lies in that engineering, where we take the operating system, make it fit like tongue and groove into, uh, a bit with the opera, with the hardware, and then do the same with the database. And because we have got this deep insight into what are the workloads that are, that are running at any given point in time on the compute side of extra data, we can then do micromanagement at the software layers of how traffic flows are flowing through the entire system and do things like, you know, prioritize all PP transactions on a very specific, uh, you know, queue on the RDMA. >>We'll converse Ethan at be able to do smart scan, use the compute elements in the storage tier to be able to offload SQL processing. They call them the longer I used formats of data, extend them into flash, just a whole bunch of things that we've been doing over the last 12 years, because we have this deep engineering, you can try to cobble a system together, which sort of looks like an extra data. It's got a network and it's got storage, tiering compute here, but you're not going to be able to achieve anything close to what we are doing. The biggest deal in my mind, apart from the performance and the high availability is the security, because we are testing the stack top to bottom. When you're trying to build your own best of breed kind of stuff. You're not going to be able to do that because it depended on the server that had to do something and HP to do something else or Dell to do something else and a Brocade switch to do something it's not possible. We can do this, we've done it. We've proven it. We've delivered it for over a decade. End of story. For as far as I'm concerned, >>I mean, you know, at this fine, remember when Oracle purchased Sohn and I know a big part of that purchase was to get Java, but I remember saying at the time it was a brilliant acquisition. I was looking at it from a financial standpoint. I think you paid seven and a half billion for it. And it automatically, when you're, when Safra was able to get back to sort of pre acquisition margins, you got the Oracle uplift in terms of revenue multiples. So then that standpoint, it was a no brainer, but the other thing is back in the Unix days, it was like HP. Oracle was the standard. And, and in terms of all the benchmarks and performance, but even then, I'm sure you work closely with HP, but it was like to get the stuff to work together, you know, make sure that it was going to be able to recover according to your standards, but you couldn't actually do that deep engineering that you just described now earlier, Subin you, you, you, you stated that the X sign now in M you get, oh, LTP IO, IOP reads at 27 million IOPS. Uh, you got 19 microseconds latency, so pretty impressive stuff, impressive numbers. And you kind of just went there. Um, but how are you measuring these numbers versus other performance claims from your competitors? What what's, you know, are you, are you stacking the deck? Can you give you share with us there? >>Sure. So Shada incidents, we are mentioning it at the sequel layer. This is not some kind of an ion meter or a micro benchmark. That's looking at just a flash subsystem or just a persistent memory subsystem. This is measured at the compute, not doing an entire set of transactions. And how many times can you finish that? Right? So that's how it's being measured. Now. Most people cannot measure it like that because of the disparity and the number of vendors that are involved in that particular solution, right? You've got servers from vendor a and storage from vendor B, the storage network from vendor C, the operating system from vendor D. How do you tune all of these things on your own? You cannot write. I mean, there's only certain bells and whistles and knobs that are available for you to tune, but so that's how we are measuring the 19 microseconds is at the sequel layer. >>What that means is this a real world customer running a real world. Workload is guaranteed to get that kind of a latency. None of the other suppliers can make that claim. This is the real world capability. Now let's take a look at that 19 microseconds we boast and we say, Hey, we had an order of magnitude two orders of magnitude faster than everybody else. When it comes down to latency. And one things that this is we'll do our magic while it is magical. The magic is really grounded in deep engineering and deep physics and science. The way we implement this is we, first of all, put the persistent memory tier in the storage. And that way it's shared across all of the database instances that are running on the compute tier. Then we have this ultra fast hundred gigabit ethernet RDMA over converged ethernet fabric. >>With this, what we have been able to do is at the hardware level between two network interface guides that are resident on that fabric, we create paths that enable high priority low-latency communication between any two end points on that fabric. And then given the fact that we implemented persistent memory in the storage tier, what that means is with that persistent memory, sitting on the memory bus of the processor in the storage tier, we can perform it remote direct memory access operation from the compute tier to memory address spaces in the persistent memory of the storage tier, without the involvement of the operating system on either end, no context, switches, knowing processing latencies and all of that. So it's hardware to hardware, communication with security built in, which is immutable, right? So all of this is built into the hardware itself. So there's no software involved. You perform a read, the data comes back 19 microseconds, boom. End of story. >>Yeah. So that's key to my next topic, which is security because if you're not getting the OSTP involved and that's, you know, very oftentimes if I can get access to the OSTP, I get privileged. Like I can really take advantage of that as a hacker. But so, but, but before I go there, like Oracle talks about, it's got a huge percentage of the Gayety 7% of the fortune 100 companies run their mission, critical workloads on exit data. But so that's not only important to the companies, but they're serving consumer me, right. I'm going to my ATM or I'm swiping my credit card. And Juan mentioned that you use a layered security model. I just sort of inferred anyway, that, that having this stuff in hardware and not have to involve access to the OS actually contributes to better security. But can you describe this in a bit more detail? >>So yeah, what Brian was talking about was this layered security set differently. It is defense in depth, and that's been our mantra and philosophy for several years now. So what does that entail? As I mentioned earlier, we designed our own servers. We do this for performance. We also do it for security. We've got a number of features that are built into the hardware that make sure that we've got immutable areas of form where we, for instance, let me give you this example. If you take an article x86 server, just a standard x86 server, not even express in the form of an extra data system, even if you had super user privileges sitting on top of an operating system, you cannot modify the bias as a user, as a super user that has to be done through the system management network. So we put gates and protection modes, et cetera, right in the hardware itself. >>Now, of course the security of that hardware goes all the way back to the fact that we own the design. We've got a global supply chain, but we are making sure that our supply chain is protected monitored. And, uh, we also protect the last mile of the supply chain, which is we can detect if there's been any tampering of form where that's been, uh, that's occurred in the hardware while the hardware shipped from our factory to the customers, uh, docks. Right? So we, we know that something's been tampered with the moment it comes back up on the customer. So that's on the hardware. Let's take a look at the operating system, Oracle Linux, we own article the next, the entire source code. And what shipping on exit data is the unbreakable enterprise Connell, the carnal and the operating system itself have been reduced in terms of eliminating all unnecessary packages from that operating system bundle. >>When we deliver it in the form of the data, let's put some real numbers on that. A standard Oracle Linux or a standard Linux distribution has got about 5,000 plus packages. These things include like print servers, web servers, a whole bunch of stuff that you're not absolutely going to use at all on exit data. Why ship those? Because the moment you ship more stuff than you need, you are increasing the, uh, the target, uh, that attackers can get to. So on AXA data, there are only 701 packages. So compare this 5,413 packages on a standard Linux, 701 and exit data. So we reduced the attack surface another aspect on this, when we, we do our own STIG, uh, ASCAP benchmarking. If you take a standard Linux and you run that ASCAP benchmark, you'll get about a 30% pass score on exit data. It's 90 plus percent. >>So which means we are doing the heavy lifting of doing the security checks on the operating system before it even goes out to the factory. And then you layer on Oracle database, transparent data encryption. We've got all kinds of protection capabilities, data reduction, being able to do an authentication on a user ID basis, being able to log it, being able to track it, being able to determine who access the system when and log back. So it's basically defend at every single layer. And then of course the customer's responsibility. It doesn't just stop by getting this high secure, uh, environment. They have to do their own job of them securing their network perimeters, securing who has physical access to the system and everything else. So it's a giant responsibility. And as you mentioned, you know, you as a consumer going to an ATM machine and withdrawing money, you would do 200. You don't want to see 5,000 deducted from your account. And so all of this is made possible with exited and the amount of security focus that we have on the system >>And the bank doesn't want to see it the other way. So I'm geeking out here in the cube, but I got one more question for you. Juan talked about X nine M best system for database consolidation. So I, I kinda, you know, it was built to handle all LTP analytics, et cetera. So I want to push you a little bit on this because I can make an argument that, that this is kind of a Swiss army knife versus the best screwdriver or the best knife. How do you respond to that concern and how, how do you respond to the concern that you're putting too many eggs in one basket? Like, what do you tell people to fear you're consolidating workloads to save money, but you're also narrowing the blast radius. Isn't that a problem? >>Very good question there. So, yes. So this is an interesting problem, and it is a balancing act. As you correctly pointed out, you want to have the economies of scale that you get when you consolidate more and more databases, but at the same time, when something happens when hardware fails or there's an attack, you want to make sure that you have business continuity. So what we are doing on exit data, first of all, as I mentioned, we are designing our own hardware and a building in reliability into the system and at the hardware layer, that means having redundancy, redundancy for fans, power supplies. We even have the ability to isolate faulty cores on the processor. And we've got this a tremendous amount of sweeping that's going on by the system management stack, looking for problem areas and trying to contain them as much as possible within the hardware itself. >>Then you take it up to the software layer. We used our reliability to then build high availability. What that implies is, and that's fundamental to the exited architecture is this entire scale out model, our based system, you cannot go smaller than having two database nodes and three storage cells. Why is that? That's because you want to have high availability of your database instances. So if something happens to one server hardware, software, whatever you got another server that's ready to take on that load. And then with real application clusters, you can then switch over between these two, why three storage cells. We want to make sure that when you have got duplicate copies of data, because you at least want to have one additional copy of your data in case something happens to the disc that has got that only that one copy, right? So the reason we have got three is because then you can Stripe data across these three different servers and deliver high availability. >>Now you take that up to the rack level. A lot of things happen. Now, when you're really talking about the blast radius, you want to make sure that if something physically happens to this data center, that you have infrastructure that's available for it to function for business continuity, we maintain, which is why we have the maximum availability architecture. So with components like golden gate and active data guard, and other ways by which we can keep to this distant systems in sync is extremely critical for us to deliver these high availability paths that make, uh, the whole equation about how many eggs in one basket versus containing the containment of the blast radius. A lot easier to grapple with because business continuity is something which is paramount to us. I mean, Oracle, the enterprise is running on Xcel data. Our high value cloud customers are running on extra data. And I'm sure Bob's going to talk a lot more about the cloud piece of it. So I think we have all the tools in place to, to go after that optimization on how many eggs in one basket was his blast radius. It's a question of working through the solution and the criticalities of that particular instance. >>Okay, great. Thank you for that detailed soup. We're going to give you a break. You go take a breath, get a, get a drink of water. Maybe we'll come back to you. If we have time, let's go to Bob, Bob, Bob tome, X data cloud at customer X nine M earlier this week, Juan said kinda, kinda cocky. What we're bothering, comparing exit data against your cloud, a customer against outpost or Azure stack. Can you elaborate on, on why that is? >>Sure. Or you, you know, first of all, I want to say, I love, I love baby. We go south posts. You know why it affirms everything that we've been doing for the past four and a half years with clouded customer. It affirms that cloud is running that running cloud services in customers' data center is a large and important market, large and important enough that AWS felt that the need provide these, um, you know, these customers with an AWS option, even if it only supports a sliver of the functionality that they provide in the public cloud. And that's what they're doing. They're giving it a sliver and they're not exactly leading with the best they could offer. So for that reason, you know, that reason alone, there's really nothing to compare. And so we, we give them the benefit of the doubt and we actually are using their public cloud solutions. >>Another point most customers are looking to deploy to Oracle cloud, a customer they're looking for a per performance, scalable, secure, and highly available platform to deploy. What's offered their most critical databases. Most often they are Oracle databases does outposts for an Oracle database. No. Does outpost run a comparable database? Not really does outposts run Amazon's top OTP and analytics database services, the ones that are top in their cloud public cloud. No, that we couldn't find anything that runs outposts that's worth comparing against X data clouded customer, which is why the comparisons are against their public cloud products. And even with that still we're looking at numbers like 50 times a hundred times slower, right? So then there's the Azure stack. One of the key benefits to, um, you know, that customers love about the cloud that I think is really under, appreciated it under appreciated is really that it's a single vendor solution, right? You have a problem with cloud service could be I as pass SAS doesn't matter. And there's a single vendor responsible for fixing your issue as your stack is missing big here, because they're a multi-vendor cloud solution like AWS outposts. Also, they don't exactly offer the same services in the cloud that they offer on prem. And from what I hear, it can be a management nightmare requiring specialized administrators to keep that beast running. >>Okay. So, well, thanks for that. I'll I'll grant you that, first of all, granted that Oracle was the first with that same, same vision. I always tell people that, you know, if they say, well, we were first I'm like, well, actually, no, Oracle's first having said that, Bob and I hear you that, that right now, outpost is a one Datto version. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles, but neither did your cloud when you first launched your cloud. So let's, let's let it bake for a while and we'll come back in a couple of years and see how things compare. So if you're up for it. Yeah. >>Just remember that we're still in the oven too. Right. >>Okay. All right. Good. I love it. I love the, the chutzpah. One also talked about Deutsche bank. Um, and that, I, I mean, I saw that Deutsche bank announcement, how they're working with Oracle, they're modernizing their infrastructure around database. They're building other services around that and kind of building their own sort of version of a cloud for their customers. How does exit data cloud a customer fit in to that whole Deutsche bank deal? Is, is this solution unique to Deutsche bank? Do you see other organizations adopting clouded customer for similar reasons and use cases? >>Yeah, I'll start with that. First. I want to say that I don't think Georgia bank is unique. They want what all customers want. They want to be able to run their most important workloads. The ones today running their data center on exit eight as a non other high-end systems in a cloud environment where they can benefit from things like cloud economics, cloud operations, cloud automations, but they can't move to public cloud. They need to maintain the service levels, the performance, the scalability of the security and the availability that their business has. It has come to depend on most clouds can't provide that. Although actually Oracle's cloud can our public cloud Ken, because our public cloud does run exit data, but still even with that, they can't do it because as a bank, they're subject to lots of rules and regulations, they cannot move their 40 petabytes of data to a point outside the control of their data center. >>They have thousands of interconnected databases, right? And applications. It's like a rat's nest, right? And this is similar many large customers have this problem. How do you move that to the cloud? You can move it piecemeal. Uh, I'm going to move these apps and, you know, not move those apps. Um, but suddenly ended up with these things where some pieces are up here. Some pieces are down here. The thing just dies because of the long latency over a land connection, it just doesn't work. Right. So you can also shut it down. Let's shut it down on, on Friday and move everything all at once. Unfortunately, when you're looking at it, a state decides that most customers have, you're not going to be able to, you're going to be down for a month, right? Who can, who can tolerate that? So it's a big challenge and exited cloud a customer let's then move to the cloud without losing control of their data. >>And without unhappy having to untangle that thousands of interconnected databases. So, you know, that's why these customers are choosing X data, clouded customer. More importantly, it sets them up for the future with exited cloud at customer, they can run not just in their data center, but they could also run in public cloud, adjacent sites, giving them a path to moving some work out of the data center and ultimately into the public cloud. You know, as I said, they're not unique. Other banks are watching and some are acting and it's not just banks. Just last week. Telefonica telco in Spain announced their intent to migrate the bulk of their Oracle databases to excavate a cloud at customer. This will be the key cloud platform running. They're running in their data center to support both new services, as well as mission critical and operational systems. And one last important point exited cloud a customer can also run autonomous database. Even if customers aren't today ready to adopt this. A lot of them are interested in it. They see it as a key piece of the puzzle moving forward in the future and customers know that they can easily start to migrate to autonomous in the future as they're ready. And this of course is going to drive additional efficiencies and additional cost savings. >>So, Bob, I got a question for you because you know, Oracle's playing both sides, right? You've got a cloud, you know, you've got a true public cloud now. And, and obviously you have a huge on-premise state. When I talk to companies that don't own a cloud, uh, whether it's Dell or HPE, Cisco, et cetera, they have made, they make the point. And I agree with them by the way that the world is hybrid, not everything's going into the, to the cloud. However, I had a lot of respect for folks at Amazon as well. And they believed long-term, they'll say this, they've got them on record of saying this, that they believe long-term ultimately all workloads are going to be running in the cloud. Now, I guess it depends on how you define the cloud. The cloud is expanding and all that other stuff. But my question to you, because again, you kind of on both sides, here are our hybrid solutions like cloud at customer. Do you see them as a stepping stone to the cloud, or is cloud in your data center, sort of a continuous sort of permanent, you know, essential play >>That. That's a great question. As I recall, people debated this a few years back when we first introduced clouded customer. And at that point, some people I'm talking about even internal Oracle, right? Some people saw this as a stop gap measure to let people leverage cloud benefits until they're really ready for the public cloud. But I think over the past four and a half years, the changing the thinking has changed a little bit on this. And everyone kind of agrees that clouded customer may be a stepping stone for some customers, but others see that as the end game, right? Not every workload can run in the public cloud, not at least not given the, um, you know, today's regulations and the issues that are faced by many of these regulated industries. These industries move very, very slowly and customers are content to, and in many cases required to retain complete control of their data and they will be running under their control. They'll be running with that data under their control and the data center for the foreseeable future. >>Oh, I got another question for kind of just, if I could take a little tangent, cause the other thing I hear from the, on the, the, the on-prem don't own, the cloud folks is it's actually cheaper to run in on-prem, uh, because they're getting better at automation, et cetera. When you get the exact opposite from the cloud guys, they roll their eyes. Are you kidding me? It's way cheaper to run it in the cloud, which is more cost-effective is it one of those? It depends, Bob. >>Um, you know, the great thing about numbers is you can make, you can, you can kind of twist them to show anything that you want, right? That's a have spreadsheet. Can I, can, I can sell you on anything? Um, I think that there's, there's customers who look at it and they say, oh, on-premise sheet is cheaper. And there's customers who look at it and say, the cloud is cheaper. If you, um, you know, there's a lot of ways that you may incur savings in the cloud. A lot of it has to do with the cloud economics, the ability to pay for what you're using and only what you're using. If you were to kind of, you know, if you, if you size something for your peak workload and then, you know, on prem, you probably put a little bit of a buffer in it, right? >>If you size everything for that, you're gonna find that you're paying, you know, this much, right? All the time you're paying for peak workload all the time with the cloud, of course, we support scaling up, scaling down. We supply, we support you're paying for what you use and you can scale up and scale down. That's where the big savings is now. There's also additional savings associated with you. Don't have the cloud vendors like work. Well, we manage that infrastructure for you. You no longer have to worry about it. Um, we have a lot of automation, things that you use to either, you know, probably what used to happen is you used to have to spend hours and hours or years or whatever, scripting these things yourselves. We now have this automation to do it. We have, um, you eyes that make things ad hoc things, as simple as point and click and, uh, you know, that eliminates errors. And, and it's often difficult to put a cost on those things. And I think the more enlightened customers can put a cost on all of those. So the people that were saying it's cheaper to run on prem, uh, they, they either, you know, have a very stable workload that never changes and their environment never changes, um, or more likely. They just really haven't thought through the, all the hidden costs out there. >>All right, you got some new features. Thank you for that. By the way, you got some new features in, in cloud, a customer, a what are those? Do I have to upgrade to X nine M to, to get >>All right. So, you know, we're always introducing new features for clouded customer, but two significant things that we've rolled out recently are operator access control and elastic storage expansion. As we discussed, many organizations are using Axeda cloud a customer they're attracting the cloud economics, the operational benefits, but they're required by regulations to retain control and visibility of their data, as well as any infrastructure that sits inside their data center with operator access control, enabled cloud operations, staff members must request access to a customer system, a customer, it team grants, a designated person, specific access to a specific component for a specific period of time with specific privileges, they can then kind of view audit controls in real time. And if they see something they don't like, you know, Hey, what's this guy doing? It looks like he's, he's stealing my data or doing something I don't like, boom. >>They can kill that operators, access the session, the connections, everything right away. And this gives everyone, especially customers that need to, you know, regulate remote access to their infrastructure. It gives them the confidence that they need to use exit data cloud, uh, conduct, customer service. And, and the other thing that's new is, um, elastic storage expansion. Customers could out add additional service to their system either at initial deployment or after the fact. And this really provides two important benefits. The first is that they can right size their configuration if they need only the minimum compute capacity, but they don't need the maximum number of storage servers to get that capacity. They don't need to subscribe to kind of a fixed shape. We used to have fixed shapes, I guess, with hundreds of unnecessary database cores, just to get the storage capacity, they can select a smaller system. >>And then incrementally add on that storage. The second benefit is the, is kind of key for many customers. You are at a storage, guess what you can add more. And that way, when you're out of storage, that's really important. Now they'll get to your last part of that question. Do you need a deck, a new, uh, exit aquatic customer XIM system to get these features? No they're available for all gen two exited clouded customer systems. That's really one of the best things about cloud. The service you subscribed to today just keeps getting better and better. And unless there's some technical limitation that, you know, we, and it, which is rare, most new features are available even for the oldest cloud customer systems. >>Cool. And you can bring that in on from my, my last question for you, Bob is a, another one on security. Obviously, again, we talked to Susan about this. It's a big deal. How can customer data be secure if it's in the cloud, if somebody, other than the, their own vetted employees are managing the underlying infrastructure, is is that a concern you hear a lot and how do you handle that? >>You know, it's, it's only something because a lot of these customers, they have big, you know, security people and it's their job to be concerned about that kind of stuff. And security. However, is one of the biggest, but least appreciate appreciated benefits of cloud cloud vendors, such as Oracle hire the best and brightest security experts to ensure that their clouds are secure. Something that only the largest customers can afford to do. You're a small, small shop. You're not going to be able to, you know, hire some of this expertise. So you're better off being in the cloud. Customers who are running in the Oracle cloud can also use articles, data, safe tool, which we provide, which basically lets you inspect your databases, insurance. Sure that everything is locked down and secure and your data is secure. But your question is actually a little bit different. >>It was about potential internal threats to company's data. Given the cloud vendor, not the customer's employees have access to the infrastructure that sits beneath the databases and really the first and most important thing we do to protect customers' data is we encrypt that database by default. Actually Subin listed a whole laundry list of things, but that's the one thing I want to point out. We encrypt your database. It's, you know, it's, it's encrypted. Yes. It sits on our infrastructure. Yes. Our operations persons can actually see those data files sitting on the infrastructure, but guess what? They can't see the data. The data is encrypted. All they see as kind of a big encrypted blob. Um, so they can't access the data themselves. And you know, as you'd expect, we have very tight controls over operations access to the infrastructure. They need to securely log in using mechanisms by stuff to present, prevent unauthorized access. >>And then all access is logged and suspicious. Activities are investigated, but that still may not be enough for some customers, especially the ones I mentioned earlier, the regulated industries. And that's why we offer app operator access control. As I mentioned, that gives customers complete control over the access to the infrastructure. The, when the, what ops can do, how long can they do it? Customers can monitor in real time. And if they see something they don't like they stop it immediately. Lastly, I just want to mention Oracle's data ball feature. This prevents administrators from accessing data, protecting data from road operators, robot, world operations, whether they be from Oracle or from the customer's own it staff, this database option. A lot of ball is sorry. Database ball data vault is included when running a license included service on exited clouded customer. So basically to get it with the service. Got it. >>Hi Tom. Thank you so much. It's unbelievable, Bob. I mean, we've got a lot to unpack there, but uh, we're going to give you a break now and go to Tim, Tim chin, zero data loss, recovery appliance. We always love that name. The big guy we think named it, but nobody will tell us, but we've been talking about security. There's been a lot of news around ransomware attacks. Every industry around the globe, any knucklehead with, uh, with a high school diploma could become a ransomware attack or go in the dark web, get, get ransomware as a service stick, a, put a stick in and take a piece of the VIG and hopefully get arrested. Um, with, when you think about database, how do you deal with the ransomware challenge? >>Yeah, Dave, um, that's an extremely important and timely question. Um, we are hearing this from our customers. We just talk about ha and backup strategies and ransomware, um, has been coming up more and more. Um, and the unfortunate thing that these ransoms are actually paid, um, uh, in the hope of the re you know, the, uh, the ability to access the data again. So what that means it tells me is that today's recovery solutions and processes are not sufficient to get these systems back in a reliable and timely manner. Um, and so you have to pay the ransom, right, to get, uh, to get the, even a hope of getting the data back now for databases. This can have a huge impact because we're talking about transactional workloads. And so even a compromise of just a few minutes, a blip, um, can affect hundreds or even thousands of transactions. This can literally represent hundreds of lost orders, right? If you're a big manufacturing company or even like millions of dollars worth of, uh, financial transactions in a bank. Right. Um, and that's why protecting databases at a transaction level is especially critical, um, for ransomware. And that's a huge contrast to traditional backup approaches. Okay. >>So how do you approach that? What do you, what do you do specifically for ransomware protection for the database? >>Yeah, so we have the zero data loss recovery appliance, which we announced the X nine M generation. Um, it is really the only solution in the market, which offers that transaction level of protection, which allows all transactions to be recovered with zero RPO, zero again, and this is only possible because Oracle has very innovative and unique technology called real-time redo, which captures all the transactional changes from the databases by the appliance, and then stored as well by the appliance, moreover, the appliance validates all these backups and reading. So you want to make sure that you can recover them after you've sent them, right? So it's not just a file level integrity check on a file system. That's actual database level of validation that the Oracle blocks and the redo that I mentioned can be restored and recovered as a usable database, any kind of, um, malicious attack or modification of that backup data and transmit that, or if it's even stored on the appliance and it was compromised would be immediately detected and reported by that validation. >>So this allows administrators to take action. This is removing that system from the network. And so it's a huge leap in terms of what customers can get today. The last thing I just want to point out is we call our cyber vault deployment, right? Um, a lot of customers in the industry are creating what we call air gapped environments, where they have a separate location where their backup copies are stored physically network separated from the production systems. And so this prevents ransomware for possibly infiltrating that last good copy of backups. So you can deploy recovery appliance in a cyber vault and have it synchronized at random times when the network's available, uh, to, to keep it in sync. Right. Um, so that combined with our transaction level zero data loss validation, it's a nice package and really a game changer in protecting and recovering your databases from modern day cyber threats. >>Okay, great. Thank you for clarifying that air gap piece. Cause I, there was some confusion about that. Every data protection and backup company that I know as a ransomware solution, it's like the hottest topic going, you got newer players in, in, in recovery and backup like rubric Cohesity. They raised a ton of dough. Dell has got solutions, HPE just acquired Zerto to deal with this problem. And other things IBM has got stuff. Veem seems to be doing pretty well. Veritas got a range of, of recovery solutions. They're sort of all out there. What's your take on these and their strategy and how do you differentiate? >>Yeah, it's a pretty crowded market, like you said. Um, I think the first thing you really have to keep in mind and understand that these vendors, these new and up and coming, um, uh, uh, vendors start in the copy data management, we call CDN space and they're not traditional backup recovery designed are purpose built for the purpose of CDM products is to provide these fast point in time copies for test dev non-production use, and that's a viable problem and it needs a solution. So you create these one time copy and then you create snapshots. Um, after you apply these incremental changes to that copy, and then the snapshot can be quickly restored and presented as like it's a fully populated, uh, file. And this is all done through the underlying storage of block pointers. So all of this kind of sounds really cool and modern, right? It's like new and upcoming and lots of people in the market doing this. Well, it's really not that modern because we've, we know storage, snapshot technologies has been around for years. Right. Um, what these new vendors have been doing is essentially repackaging the old technology for backup and recovery use cases and having sort of an easier to use automation interface wrapped around it. >>Yeah. So you mentioned a copy data management, uh, last year, active FIO. Uh, they started that whole space from what I recall at one point there, they value more than a billion dollars. They were acquired by Google. Uh, and as I say, they kind of created that, that category. So fast forward a little bit, nine months a year, whatever it's been, do you see that Google active FIO offer in, in, in customer engagements? Is that something that you run into? >>We really don't. Um, yeah, it was really popular and known some years ago, but we really don't hear about it anymore. Um, after the acquisition, you look at all the collateral and the marketing, they are really a CDM and backup solution exclusively for Google cloud use cases. And they're not being positioned as for on premises or any other use cases outside of Google cloud. That's what, 90, 90 plus percent of your market there that isn't addressable now by Activia. So really we don't see them in any of our engagements at this time. >>I want to come back and push it a little bit, uh, on some of the tech that you said, it's kind of really not that modern. Uh, I mean it's, if they certainly position it as modern, a lot of the engineers who are building there's new sort of backup and recovery capabilities came from the hyperscalers, whether it's copy data management, you know, the bot mock quote, unquote modern backup recovery, it's kind of a data management, sort of this nice all in one solution seems pretty compelling. How does recovery clients specifically stack up? You know, a lot of people think it's a niche product for, for really high end use cases. Is that fair? How do you see a town? >>Yeah. Yeah. So it's, I think it's so important to just, you know, understand, again, the fundamental use of this technology is to create data copies for test W's right. Um, and that's really different than operational backup recovery in which you must have this ability to do full and point in time recoverability in any production outage or Dr. Situation. Um, and then more importantly, after you recover and your applications are back in business, that performance must continue to meet servers levels as before. And when you look at a CDM product, um, and you restore a snapshot and you say with that product and the application is brought up on that restored snapshot, what happens or your production application is now running on actual read rideable snapshots on backup storage. Remember they don't restore all the data back to the production, uh, level stores. They're restoring it as a snapshot okay. >>Onto their storage. And so you have a huge difference in performance. Now running these applications where they instantly recovered, if you will database. So to meet these true operational requirements, you have to fully restore the files to production storage period. And so recovery appliance was first and foremost designed to accomplish this. It's an operational recovery solution, right? We accomplish that. Like I mentioned, with this real-time transaction protection, we have incremental forever backup strategies. So that you're just taking just the changes every day. And you, you can create these virtual full backups that are quickly restored, fully restored, if you will, at 24 terabytes an hour. And we validate and document that performance very clearly in our website. And of course we provide that continuous recovery validation for all the backups that are stored on the system. So it's, um, it's a very nice, complete solution. >>It scales to meet your demands, hundreds of thousands of databases, you know, it's, um, you know, these CDM products might seem great and they work well for a few databases, but then you put a real enterprise load and these hundreds of databases, and we've seen a lot of times where it just buckles, you know, it can't handle that kind of load in that, uh, in that scale. Uh, and, and this is important because customers read their marketing and read the collateral like, Hey, instant recovery. Why wouldn't I want that? Well, it's, you know, nicer than it looks, you know, it always sounds better. Right. Um, and so we have to educate them and about exactly what that means for the database, especially backup recovery use cases. And they're not really handled well, um, with their products. >>I know I'm like way over. I had a lot of questions on this announcement and I was gonna, I was gonna let you go, Tim, but you just mentioned something that, that gave me one more question if I may. So you talked about, uh, supporting hundreds of thousands of databases. You petabytes, you have real world use cases that, that actually leverage the, the appliance in these types of environments. Where does it really shine? >>Yeah. Let me just give you just two real quick ones. You know, we have a company energy transfer, the major natural gas and pipeline operator in the U S so they are a big part of our country's critical infrastructure services. We know ransomware, and these kinds of threats are, you know, are very much viable. We saw the colonial pipeline incident that happened, right? And so the attack, right, critical services while energy transfer was running, lots of databases and their legacy backup environments just couldn't keep up with their enterprise needs. They had backups taking like, well, over a day, they had restores taking several hours. Um, and so they had problems and they couldn't meet their SLS. They moved to the recovery appliance and now they're seeing backwards complete with that incremental forever in just 15 minutes. So that's like a 48 times improvement in backup time. >>And they're also seeing restores completing in about 30 minutes, right. Versus several hours. So it's a, it's a huge difference for them. And they also get that nice recovery validation and monitoring by the system. They know the health of their enterprise at their fingertips. The second quick one is just a global financial services customer. Um, and they have like over 10,000 databases globally and they, they really couldn't find a solution other than throw more hardware kind of approach to, uh, to fix their backups. Well, this, uh, not that the failures and not as the issues. So they moved to recovery appliance and they saw their failed backup rates go down for Matta plea. They saw four times better backup and restore performance. Um, and they have also a very nice centralized way to monitor and manage the system. Uh, real-time view if you will, that data protection health for their entire environment. Uh, and they can show this to the executive management and auditing teams. This is great for compliance reporting. Um, and so they finally done that. They have north of 50 plus, um, recovery appliances a day across that on global enterprise. >>Love it. Thank you for that. Um, uh, guys, great power panel. We have a lot of Oracle customers in our community and the best way to, to help them is to, I get to ask you a bunch of questions and get the experts to answer. So I wonder if you could bring us home, maybe you could just sort of give us the, the top takeaways that you want to your customers to remember in our audience to remember from this announcement. >>Sure, sorry. Uh, I want to actually pick up from where Tim left off and talk about a real customer use case. This is hot off the press. One of the largest banks in the United States, they decided to, that they needed to update. So performance software update on 3000 of their database instances, which are spanning 68, exited a clusters, massive undertaking, correct. They finished the entire task in three hours, three hours to update 3000 databases and 68 exited a clusters. Talk about availability, try doing this on any other infrastructure, no way anyone's going to be able to achieve this. So that's on terms of the availability, right? We are engineering in all of the aspects of database management, performance, security availability, being able to provide redundancy at every single level is all part of the design philosophy and how we are engineering this product. And as far as we are concerned, the, the goal is for forever. >>We are just going to continue to go down this path of increasing performance, increasing the security aspect of the, uh, of the infrastructure, as well as our Oracle database and keep going on this. You know, this, while these have been great results that we've delivered with extra data X nine M the, the journey is on and to our customers. The biggest advantage that you're going to get from the kind of performance metrics that we are driving with extra data is consolidation consolidate more, move, more database instances onto the extended platform, gain the benefits from that consolidation, reduce your operational expenses, reduce your capital expenses. They use your management expenses, all of those, bring it down to accelerator. Your total cost of ownership is guaranteed to go down. Those are my key takeaways, Dave >>Guys, you've been really generous with your time. Uh Subin uh, uh, uh, Bob, Tim, I appreciate you taking my questions and we'll willingness to go toe to toe, really? Thanks for your time. >>You're welcome, David. Thank you. Thank you. >>And thank you for watching this video exclusive from the cube. This is Dave Volante, and we'll see you next time. Be well.

>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is braking analysis with Dave Vellante. >> Techniques to protect sensitive data have evolved over thousands of years, literally. The pace of modern data protection is rapidly accelerating and presents both opportunities and threats for organizations. In particular, the amount of data stored in the cloud combined with hybrid work models, the clear and present threat of cyber crime, regulatory edicts, and the ever expanding edge and associated use cases should put CXOs on notice that the time is now to rethink your data protection strategies. Hello, and welcome to this week's Wikibon Cube Insights powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis, we're going to explore the evolving world of data protection and share some information on how we see the market changing in the competitive landscape for some of the top players. Steve Kenniston, AKA the Storage Alchemist, shared a story with me, and it was pretty clever. Way back in 4000 BC, the Sumerians invented the first system of writing. Now, they used clay tokens to represent transactions at that time. Now, to prevent messing with these tokens, they sealed them in clay jars to ensure that the tokens, i.e the data, would remain secure with an accurate record that was, let's call it quasi, immutable, and lived in a clay vault. And since that time, we've seen quite an evolution of data protection. Tape, of course, was the main means of protecting data and backing data up during most of the mainframe era. And that carried into client server computing, which really accentuated and underscored the issues around backup windows and challenges with RTO, recovery time objective and RPO recovery point objective. And just overall recovery nightmares. Then in the 2000's data reduction made disk-based backup more popular and pushed tape into an archive last resort media. Data Domain, then EMC, now Dell still sell many purpose-built backup appliances as do others as a primary backup target disc-based. The rise of virtualization brought more changes in backup and recovery strategies, as a reduction in physical resources squeezed the one application that wasn't under utilizing compute, i.e, backup. And we saw the rise of Veem, the cleverly-named company that became synonymous with data protection for virtual machines. Now, the cloud has created new challenges related to data sovereignty, governance, latency, copy creep, expense, et cetera. But more recently, cyber threats have elevated data protection to become a critical adjacency to information security. Cyber resilience to specifically protect against attacks is the new trend being pushed by the vendor community as organizations are urgently looking for help with this insidious threat. Okay, so there are two major disruptors that we're going to talk about today, the cloud and cyber crime, especially around ransoming your data. Every customer is using the cloud in some way, shape, or form. Around 76% are using multiple clouds, that's according to a recent study by Hashi Corp. We've talked extensively about skill shortages on theCUBE, and data protection and security concerns are really key challenges to address, given that skill shortage is a real talent gap in terms of being able to throw people at solving this problem. So what customers are doing, they're either building out or they're buying really mostly building abstraction layers to hide the underlying cloud complexity. So what this does... The good news is it's simplifies provisioning and management, but it creates problems around opacity. In other words, you can't see sometimes what's going on with the data. These challenges fundamentally become data problems, in our view. Things like fast, accurate, and complete backup recovery, compliance, data sovereignty, data sharing. I mentioned copy creep, cyber resiliency, privacy protections. These are all challenges brought to fore by the cloud, the advantages, the pros, and the cons. Now, remote workers are especially vulnerable. And as clouds span rapidly, data protection technologies are struggling to keep pace. So let's talk briefly about the rapidly-expanding public cloud. This chart shows worldwide revenue for the big four hyperscalers. As you can see, we projected that they're going to surpass $115 billion in revenue in 2021. That's up from 86 billion last year. So it's a huge market, it's growing in the 35% range. The interesting thing is last year, 80-plus billion dollars in revenue, but 100 billion dollars was spent last year by these firms in cap ex. So they're building out infrastructure for the industry. This is a gift to the balance of the industry. Now to date, legacy vendors and the surrounding community have been pretty defensive around the cloud. Oh, not everything's going to move to the cloud. It's not a zero sum game we hear. And while that's all true, the narrative was really kind of a defensive posture, and that's starting to change as large tech companies like Dell, IBM, Cisco, HPE, and others see opportunities to build on top of this infrastructure. You certainly see that with Arvind Krishna comments at IBM, Cisco obviously leaning in from a networking and security perspective, HPE using language that is very much cloud-like with its GreenLake strategy. And of course, Dell is all over this. Let's listen to how Michael Dell is thinking about this opportunity when he was questioned on the queue by John Furrier about the cloud. Play the clip. So in my view, Michael nailed it. The cloud is everywhere. You have to make it easy. And you have to admire the scope of his comments. We know this guy, he thinks big. He said, "Enables everything." He's basically saying is that technology is at the point where it has the potential to touch virtually every industry, every person, every problem, everything. So let's talk about how this informs the changing world of data protection. Now, we all know, we've seen with the pandemic, there's an acceleration in toward digital, and that has caused an escalation, if you will, in the data protection mandate. So essentially what we're talking about here is the application of Michael Dell's cloud everywhere comments. You've got on-prem, private clouds, hybrid clouds. You've got public clouds across AWS, Azure, Google, Alibaba. Really those are the big four hyperscalers. You got many clouds that are popping up all their place. But multi-cloud, to that Hashi Corp data point, 75, 70 6%. And then you now see the cloud expanding out to the edge, programmable infrastructure heading out to the edge. So the opportunity here to build the data protection cloud is to have the same experiences across all these estates with automation and orchestration in that cloud, that data protection cloud, if you will. So think of it as an abstraction layer that hides that underlying complexity, you log into that data protection cloud, it's the same experience. So you've got backup, you've got recovery, you can handle bare metal. You can do virtualized backups and recoveries, any cloud, any OS, out to the edge, Kubernetes and container use cases, which is an emerging data protection requirement. And you've got analytics, perhaps you've got PII, personally identifiable information protection in there. So the attributes of this data protection cloud, again, abstracts the underlying cloud primitives, takes care of that. It also explodes cloud native technologies. In other words, it takes advantage of whether it's machine learning, which all the big cloud players have expertise in, new processor models, things like graviton, and other services that are in the cloud natively. It doesn't just wrap it's on-prem stack in a container and shove it into the cloud, no. It actually re architects or architects around those cloud native services. And it's got distributed metadata to track files and volumes and any organizational data irrespective of location. And it enables sets of services to intelligently govern in a federated governance manner while ensuring data integrity. And all this is automated and an orchestrated to help with the skills gap. Now, as it relates to cyber recovery, air-gap solutions must be part of the portfolio, but managed outside of that data protection cloud that we just briefly described. The orchestration and the management must also be gaped, if you will. Otherwise, (laughs) you don't have an air gap. So all of this is really a cohort to cyber security or your cybersecurity strategy and posture, but you have to be careful here because your data protection strategy could get lost in this mess. So you want to think about the data protection cloud as again, an adjacency or maybe an overlay to your cybersecurity approach. Not a bolt on, it's got to be fundamentally architectured from the bottom up. And yes, this is going to maybe create some overheads and some integration challenges, but this is the way in which we think you should think about it. So you'll likely need a partner to do this. Again, we come back to the skill skills gap if we're seeing the rise of MSPs, managed service providers and specialist service providers. Not public cloud providers. People are concerned about lock-in, and that's really not their role. They're not high-touch services company. Probably not your technology arms dealer, (clear throat) excuse me, they're selling technology to these MSPs. So the MSPs, they have intimate relationships with their customers. They understand their business and specialize in architecting solutions to handle these difficult challenges. So let's take a look at some of the risk factors here, dig a little bit into the cyber threat that organizations face. This is a slide that, again, the Storage Alchemists, Steve Kenniston, shared with me. It's based on a study that IBM funds with the Panmore Institute, which is a firm that studies these things like cost of breaches and has for many, many, many years. The slide shows the total cost of a typical breach within each dot and on the Y axis and the frequency in percentage terms on the horizontal axis. Now, it's interesting. The top two compromise credentials and phishing, which once again proves that bad user behavior trumps good security every time. But the point here is that the adversary's attack vectors are many. And specific companies often specialize in solving these problems often with point products, which is why the slide that we showed from Optiv earlier, that messy slide, looks so cluttered. So there's a huge challenge for companies. And that's why we've seen the emergence of cyber recovery solutions from virtually all the major players. Ransomware and the solar winds hack have made trust the number one issue for CIOs and CISOs and boards of directors. Shifting CISO spending patterns are clear. They're shifting largely because they're catalyzed by the work from home. But outside of the moat to endpoint security, identity and access management, cloud security, the horizontal network security. So security priorities and spending are changing. And that's why you see the emergence of disruptors like we've covered extensively, Okta, CrowdStrike, Zscaler. And cyber resilience is top of mind, and robust solutions are required. And that's why companies are building cyber recovery solutions that are most often focused on the backup corpus because that's a target for the bad guys. So there is an opportunity, however, to expand from just the backup corpus to all data and protect this kind of 3, 2, 1, or maybe it's 3, 2, 1, 1, three copies, two backups, a backup in the cloud and one that's air gaped. So this can be extended to primary storage, copies, snaps, containers, data in motion, et cetera, to have a comprehensive data protection strategy. And customers, as I said earlier, are increasingly looking to manage service providers and specialists because of that skills gap. And that's a big reason why automation is so important in orchestration. And automation and orchestration, I'll emphasize, on the air gap solutions should be separated physically and logically. All right, now let's take a look at some of the ETR data and some of the players. This is a chart that we like to show often. It's a X-Y axis. And the Y axis is net score, which is a measure of spending momentum. And the horizontal axis is market share. Now, market share is an indicator of pervasiveness in the survey. It's not spending market share, it's not market share of the overall market, it's a term that ETR uses. It's essentially market share of the responses within the survey set. Think of it as mind share. Okay, you've got the pure plays here on this slide, in the storage category. There is no data protection or backup category. So what we've done is we've isolated the pure plays or close to pure plays in backup and data protection. Now notice that red line, that red is kind of our subjective view of anything that's over that 40% line is elevated. And you can see only Rubrik, and the July survey is over that 40% line. I'll show you the ends in a moment. Smaller ends, but still, Rubrik is the only one. Now, look at Cohesity and Rubrik in the January 2020. So last year, pre-pandemic, Cohesity and Rubrik, they've come well off their peak for net score. Look at Veeam. Veeam, having studied this data for the last say 24 hours months, Veeam has been steady Eddy. It is really always in the mid to high 30s, always shows a large shared end, so it's coming up in the survey. Customers are mentioning Veeam. And it's got a very solid net score. It's not above that 40% line, but it's hovering just below consistently. That's very impressive. Commvault has steadily been moving up. Sanjay Mirchandani has made some acquisitions. He did the Hedvig acquisition. They launched Metallic, that's driving cloud affinity within Commvault's large customer base. So it's good example of a legacy player pivoting and evolving and transforming itself. Veritas, it continues to under perform in the ETR surveys relative to the other players. Now, for context, let's add IBM and Dell to the chart. Now just note, this is IBM and Dell's full storage portfolio. The category in the taxonomy at ETR is all storage. Just previous slide, I isolated on the pure plays. But this now adds in IBM and Dell. It probably representative of where they would be. Probably Dell larger on the horizontal axis than IBM, of course. And you could see the spending momentum accordingly. So you can see that in the data chart that we've inserted. So some smaller ends for Rubrik and Cohesity. But still enough to pay attention, it's not like one or two. When you're 20-plus, 15-plus 25-plus, you can start to pay attention to trends. Veeam, again, is very impressive. It's net score is solid, it's got a consistent presence in the dataset, it's clear leader here. SimpliVity is small, but it's improving relative to last several surveys. And we talked about Convolt. Now, I want to emphasize something that we've been hitting on for quite some time now. And that's the Renaissance that's coming in compute. Now, we all know about Moore's Law, the doubling of transistor density every two years, 18 to 24 months. And that leads to a doubling of performance in that timeframe. X86, that x86 curve is in the blue. And if you do the math, this is expressed in trillions of operations per second. The orange line is representative of Apples A series, culminating in the A15, most recently. The A series is what Apple is now... Well, it's the technology basis for what's inside M1, the new Apple laptops, which is replacing Intel. That's that that orange line there, we'll come back to that. So go back to the blue line for a minute. If you do the math on doubling performance every 24 months, it comes out to roughly 40% annual improvement in processing power per year. That's now moderated. So Moore's Law is waning in one sense, so we wrote a piece Moore's Law is not dead. So I'm sort of contradicting myself there. But the traditional Moore's Law curve on x86 is waning. It's probably now down to around 30%, low 30s. But look at the orange line. Again, using the A series as an indicator, if you combine then the CPU, the NPU, which neuro processing unit, XPU, pick whatever PU you want, the accelerators, the DSPs, that line is growing at 100% plus per year. It's probably more accurately around 110% a year. So there's a new industry curve occurring, and it's being led by the Arm ecosystem. The other key factor there, and you're seeing this in a lot of use cases, a lot of consumer use cases, Apple is an example, but you're also seeing it in things like Tesla, Amazon with AWS graviton, the Annapurna acquisition, building out graviton and nitro, that's based on Arm. You can get from design to tape out in less than two years. Whereas the Intel cycles, we know, they've been running it four to five years now. Maybe Pat Gelsinger is compressing those. But Intel is behind. So organizations that are on that orange curve are going to see faster acceleration, lower cost, lower power, et cetera. All right, so what's the tie to data protection. I'm going to leave you with this chart. Arm has introduced it's confidential, compute architecture and is ushering in a new era of security and data protection. Zero trust is the new mandate. And what Arm has it's done with what they call realms is create physical separation of the vulnerable components by creating essentially physical buckets to put code in and to put data in, separate from the OS. Remember, the OS is the most valuable entry point for hackers or one of them because it contains privileged access, and it's a weak link because of things like memory leakages and vulnerabilities. And malicious code can be placed by bad guys within data in the OS and appear benign, even though it's anything but. So in this, all the OS does is create API calls to the realm controller. That's the only interaction. So it makes it much harder for bad actors to get access to the code and the data. And importantly, very importantly, it's an end-to-end architecture. So there's protection throughout. If you're pulling data from the edge and bringing it back to the on-prem or the cloud, you've got that end to end architecture and protection throughout. So the link to data protection is that backup software vendors need to be the most trusted of applications. Backup software needs to be the most trusted of applications because it's one of the most targeted areas in a cyber attack. Realms provide an end-to-end separation of data and code from the OS and it's a better architectural construct to support zero trust and confidential computing and critical use cases like data protection/backup and other digital business apps. So our call to action is backup software vendors, you can lead the charge. Arm is several years ahead at the moment, ahead of Intel, in our view. So you've got to pay attention to that, research that. We're not saying over rotate, but go investigate that. And use your relationships with Intel to accelerate its version of this architecture. Or ideally, the industry should agree on common standards and solve this problem together. Pat Gelsinger told us in theCUBE that if it's the last thing he's going to do in his industry life, he's going to solve this security problem. That's when he was at VMware. Well, Pat, you're even in a better place to do it now. You don't have to solve it yourself, you can't, and you know that. So while you're going about your business saving Intel, look to partner with Arm. I know it sounds crazy to use these published APIs and push to collaborate on an open source architecture that addresses the cyber problem. If anyone can do it, you can. Okay, that's it for today. Remember, these episodes are all available as podcasts. All you got to do is search Braking Analysis Podcast. I publish weekly on wikibond.com and siliconangle.com. Or you can reach me @dvellante on Twitter, email me at david.vellante@siliconangle.com. And don't forget to check out etr.plus for all the survey and data action. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights, powered by ETR. Thanks for watching, everybody. Be well, and we'll see you next time. (gentle music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE. With coverage of KubeCon and CloudNativeCon North America 2020, virtual. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and ecosystem partners. >> Hi, I'm Joep Piscaer. Welcome to theCUBEs coverage of KubeCon, CloudNativeCon 2020. So I'm joined today by Matt Kixmoeller, he's VP of strategy at Pure Storage, as well as Michael Ferranti, he's the senior director of product marketing at Portworx now acquired by Pure Storage. Fellows, welcome to the show. >> Thanks here. >> I want to start out with you know , how about the lay of the land of storage in the Cloud Native space in the Kubernetes space. You know, what's hard? what's happening? What are the trends that you see going on? Matt, if you could shed some light on that for me? >> Yeah, I think you know, from a Pure point of view obviously we just told customers will they maturing their comprehensive deployments and particularly leaning towards persistant, you know applications and so you know we noticed within our customer base that there was quite a lot of deployments of a Portworx on Pure Storage. And that inspired us to start talking to one another you know, almost six plus months ago that eventually ended in us bringing the two companies together. So it's been a great journey from the Pure point of view, bringing Portworx into the Pure family. And, you know, we're working through now with our joint customers, integration strategies and how to really broaden the use of the technology. So that's quite exciting times for us. >> And of course, it's good to hear that the match goes beyond just the marketing color, like the brand color. >> Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, the fact that both companies were orange and you know, their logo looked like kind of a folded up version of ours, just started things off on the right foot >> A match made in heaven, right? So I want to talk a little bit about you know, the acquisition, what's happened there and especially, you know looking at Portworx as a company, and as a product set, it's fairly popular in the cloud community. A lot of traction with customers. So I want to zoom in on the acquisition itself and kind of the roadmap going forward merging the two companies and adding Portworx to that Pure portfolio. Matt, if you could shed some light on that as well. >> Yeah. Why don't I start and then Michael can jump in as well? So, you know, we at Pure had been really working for years now to outfit our all flash storage arrays for the container use case and shipped a piece of software that we call PSO. That was really a super CSI driver that allowed us to do intelligent placement of you know, persistent volumes on Pure arrays. But the more time we spent in the market, the more we just started to engage with customers and realized that there were a whole number of use cases that didn't really want a hardware based solution, you know. They either wanted to run completely in the cloud, hybrid between on-prem and cloud and leverage bare metal hardware. And so you know, we came to the conclusion that you know, first off, although positioning arrays for the market was the right thing to do, we wouldn't really be able to serve the broader needs restoratively for containers, if you did that. And then, you know, the second thing I think was that we heard from customers that they wanted a much richer data management stack. You know, it's not just about providing the business versus the volume for the container, but you know, all the capabilities around snapshoting and replication and mobilization and mobility between on-prem and cloud were necessary. And so, you know, Portworx we bought to bear not only a software based solution into our portfolio, but really that full data management stack platform in addition to just storage. And so as we look to integrate our product lines you know, we're looking to deliver a consistent experience for data management, for Kubernetes whatever infrastructure customer would like to, whether they want to run on all flash arrays, white box servers, bare metal, VMs or on cloud storage as well. You know, all of that can have a consistent experience with the Portworx platform. >> Yeah, and because you know, data management especially in this world of containers is you know, it's a little more difficult it's definitely more fragmented across you know, multiple clouds, multiple cloud vendors, multiple cloud services, multiple instances of a service. So the fragmentation has you know, given IT departments quite the headache in operationally managing all that. So Michael you know, what's kind of the use case for Portworx in this fragmented cloud storage space. >> Yeah. It's a great question. You know, the used cases are many and varied, you know to put it in a little bit of historical perspective you know, I've been attending coupons either (indistinct) for about five or six years now, kind of losing count. And we really started seeing Kubernetes as kind of an agile way to run CI/CD environments and other test dev environments. And there were just a handful of customers that were really running production workloads at the very, very beginning. If you fast forward to today, Kubernetes is being used to tackle some of the biggest central board level problems that enterprises face, because they need that scale and they need that agility. So you know, COVID's accelerated that. So we see customers say in the retail space, who are having to cope with a massive increase in traffic on their website. People searching for kind of you know, the products that they can't find anywhere else. Are they available? Can I buy them online? And so they're re-architecting those web services to use often open source databases in this case Elasticsearch, in order to create a great user experiences. And they're managing that across clouds and across environments using Kubernetes. Another customer that I would say kind of a very different use case but also one that matches that scale would be Esri which unfortunately the circumstances of becoming a household name are a lot of the covert tracking ArcGIS system to keep track of, tracing and outbreaks. They're running that service in the cloud using Portworx. And again, it's all about how do we reliably and agilely deploy applications that are always available and create that experience that our customers need. And so we see kind of you know, financial services doing similar things healthcare, pharmaceutical, doing similar things. Again, the theme is it's the biggest business problems that we're using now, not just the kind of the low hanging fruit as we used to talk about. >> Yeah exactly. Because you know storage, is it a lot of the times it's kind of a boiler plate functionality you know, it's there it works. And if it doesn't, you know, the problem with storage in a cloud data space is that fragmentation right? Is that enormous you know, on the one hand that you don't have a scale on the other hand, the tons of different services that can hold data that need protecting as well as data management. So I want to zoom in on a recent development in the Portworx portfolio where the PX backup product has spun out its own little product. You know, what's the strategy there, Michael? >> Yeah, so I think, you know fundamentally data protection needs to change in a Kubernetes context. The way in which we protected applications in the past was very closely related to the way in which we protected servers. Because we would run one app per server. So if we protected the server our application was protected. Kubernetes breaks that model now an individual application is made up of dozens or hundreds of components that are spread across multiple servers. And you have container images, you have configuration I mean you have data, and it's very difficult for any one person to understand where any of that is in the cluster at any given moment. And so you need to leverage automation and the ability for Kubernetes to understand where a particular set of components is deployed and use that Kubernetes native functionality to take what we call application aware backups. So what PX backup provides is data protection engineered from the ground up for this new application delivery model that we see within Kubernetes. So unlike traditional backup and recovery solutions that were very machine focused, we can allow a team to back up a single application within their Kubernetes cluster, all of the applications in a namespace or the entire cluster all at once, and do so in a self-service manner where integrated with your corporate identity systems individuals can be responsible for protecting their own applications. So we marry kind of a couple of really important concepts. One is kind of the application specific nature of Kubernetes the self service desire of DevOps teams, as well as with the page you go model, where you can have this flexible consumption model, where as you grow, you can pay more. You don't have to do an upfront payment in order to protect your Kubernetes applications. >> Yeah. I think one key thing that Michael hit on was just how this obligation is designed to fit like a glove with the Kubernetes admin. I see a lot of parallels to what happened over a decade ago in the VMware space when you know, VMware came about they needed to be backed up differently. And a little company called Veem built a tool that was purpose-built for it. And it just had a really warm embrace by the VMware community because it really felt like it was built for them, not some legacy enterprise backup application that was forced to fit into this new use case. And you know, we think that the opportunity is very similar on Kubernetes backup and perhaps the difference of the environment is even more profound than on the VMware side where you know, the Kubernetes admin really wants something that fits in their operational model, deploys within the cluster itself, backs up to object storage. Is just perfect purpose-built for this use case. And so we see a huge opportunity for that, and we believe that for a lot of customers, this might be the easiest place for them to start trying to Portworx portfolio. You know, you've got an existing competitors cluster download this, give it a shot, it'll work on any instructions you've got going with Kubernetes today. >> And especially because, you know, looking at the kind of breakdown of Kubernetes in a way data is, you know, infrastructure is provisioned. Data is placing in cloud services. It's no longer the cluster admin necessarily, that gets to decide where data goes, what application has access to it, you know, that's in the hands of the developers. And that's a pretty big shift you know, it used to be the VI admin the virtualization admin that did that, had control over where data was living, where data was accessed out, how it was accessed. But now we see developers kind of taking control over their infrastructure resources. They get to decide where it runs, how it runs what services to use, what applications to tie it into. So I'm curious, you know, how our Portworx and PX backup kind of help the developer stay in control and still have that freedom of choice. >> Yeah, we think of it in terms of data services. So I have a database and I needed to be highly available. I needed to be encrypted, backed up. I might need a DR. An off site DR schedule. And with Portworx, you can think about adding these services HA, security, backup, capacity management as really just I want to check a box and now I have this service available. My database is now highly available. It's backed up, it's encrypted. I can migrate it. I can attach a backup schedule to it. So 'cause within a Kubernetes cluster some apps are going to need that entire menu of services. And some apps might not need any of those services because we're only in Testa phage, everything is multiplexed into a single cluster. And so being able to turn off and turn on these various data services is how we empower a developer, a DevOps team to take an application all the way from test dev, into production, without having to really change anything about their Kubernetes deployments besides, you know, a flag within their YAML file. It makes it really, really easy to get the performance and the security and the availability that we were used to with VM based applications via that admin now within Kubernetes. >> So Matt, I want to spend the last couple of minutes talking about the bigger picture, right? We've talked about Portworx, PX backup. I want to take a look at the broader storage picture of cloud native and kind of look at the Pure angle on the trends on what you see happening in this space. >> Yeah absolutely. You know, a couple of high-level things I would, you know, kind of talk about, you know, the first buzz that I think, you know hybrid cloud deployments are the de facto now. And so when people are picking storage, whether they be you know, a storage for a traditional database application or next gen application, cloud native application, the thought from the beginning is how do I architect for hybrid? And so you know, within the Pure portfolio, we've really thought about how we build solutions that work with cloud native apps like Portworx, but also traditional applications. And our cloud block store allows you know, those to be mobilized to the cloud without, with minimal re-architecture. Another big trend that we see is the growth of object storage. And, you know if you look at the first generation of object storage, object storage is what? 15 plus years old and many of the first deployments were characterized by really low costs low performance, kind of the last retention layer if you will, for unimportant content. But then this web application thing happens and people started to build web apps that used object storage as their primary storage. And so now, as people try to bring those cloud native applications on-prem and build them in a multicloud way there's a real growth in the need for you know, high-performance kind of applications object storage. And so we see this real change to the needs and requirements on the object storage landscape. And it's one that in particular, we're trying to serve with our FlashBlade product that provides a unified file and object access, because many of those applications are kind of graduating from file or moving towards object, but they can't do that overnight. And so being able to provide a high-performance way to deliver unstructured data (indistinct) object files solve is very strategic right now. >> Well, that's insightful. Thanks. So I want to thank you both for being here. And, you know, I look forward to hearing about Portworx and Pure in the future as is acquisition. You know, it integrates and new products and new developments come out from the Pure side. So thanks both for being here and thank you at home for watching. I'm Joep Piscaer, thanks for watching the theCUBE's coverage of KubeCon CloudNativeCon 2020. Thanks. >> Yeah. Thanks too. >> Yeah. Thank you. (gentle music)

>> Announcer: From around the globe it's theCUBE with digital coverage of Commvault Future Ready 2020 brought to you by Commvault. >> Hi and welcome to theCUBE's coverage of Commvault Future Ready. I'm Stu Miniman and I'm joined by David Vellante here. Of course, we just had the keynote for Commvault Future Ready, Sanjay Mirchandani, CEO. Dave, he's been there a little bit over a year. We've been watching the transformation of Commvault as they are trying to go much deeper in the cloud. Of course, the space, data protection overall, backup and recovery, been a super hot one. Especially, if you talk about everybody accelerating what they're doing with the cloud, Dave, from an end user standpoint, as well as for Commvault. So why don't we start with the company first, as I said, the move to subscription, the move to cloud, a lot of change needed, and that's one of the reasons they brought Sanjay into the company. Of course, he'd been at Puppet before that, he was the CIO of EMC before that. So Dave, tell us your thoughts lately on Commvault. >> Okay, so Commvault, obviously Stu, has been around for a long, long time, and it's kind of a diversified player in the data protection space. I've always felt like they've had a more diversified sort of vision and portfolio. Sanjay took over, what was it February last year, right? So he kind of came in and inherited a company in transition. And transitioning from what has largely been a legacy sort of on-prem, perpetual software licensed business to now one that's transferring into a subscription based model, obviously a large maintenance base. I think about 60% of their revenues comes from services, and most of that is maintenance, okay? So he's inherited that, and then they're going into a subscription model. So that's going to hit the income statement, and then boom COVID hits. So Sanjay is getting it all from all sides, but Commvault is a 670, roughly, million dollar company on a trailing 12 month basis. And the market cap's in the 1.7, 1.8 range, so they trade at about 2.7 times revenue. So that's much better than a hardware company, but it should be better than that as a software company. So the challenge that he has is, okay, how do we get the company growing again? How do we transition to that subscription based model? The good news on Commvault is their balance sheet is tremendous. I mean, they have no debt, no debt. I mean, several hundred million dollars in cash, over 300 million and zero debt, which kind of interesting to me, Stu. Because many companies during this COVID pandemic have tapped the credit markets, Commvault has chosen not to. Maybe they should right now with such low interest rates, and maybe that can help get the growth engine going. But I think they're very conservative in that standpoint and obviously very proud of their balance sheet, but with the likes of Cohesity and Rubrik, and I know we're going to talk about that pouring money into the market, trying to attack them, and we'll talk more about their position relative to those guys, you might like to see 'em raise a little bit of money or take on some debt and really go after some of those opportunities that you referred to upfront, it is a hot market. >> Yeah, well, Dave, you talk about some of the newer entrants raised just insane amounts of money when you talk about that space. Not only Cohesity and Rubrik, but also talked about Veem. Of course, we've watched Veem go from a change in ownership and how much money they have. And from a revenue standpoint, Veem actually might be bigger than Commvault at this point, I believe, right? >> Yeah, I think so. I mean, they're billion dollar bookings, they say. I mean, I believe it, but they're a privately held company. Commvault, we can tell actually what their numbers are. Guaranteed Cohesity and Rubrik are losing money. So their cost of acquiring a customer is huge. Commvault is, let's face it, it's servicing its install base, and it's mining that. And that's why it's, it's cashflow positive. I mean, it's a very healthy company financially. The challenge that, again, Sanjay has is how do you get growth? They're a company, as I said earlier, in transition. Let me share with you, if I may, some data from our friends at ETR. What we're showing here is the fundamental methodology of ETR, which is that net score, Stu. We talk about that all the time, ETR is, as I say, our data partner, Enterprise Technology Research. Every quarter, they go out and they say, "Based for each company and their various segments, "are you adopting new?" That's the lime green, that's the 2%. "Are you increasing spending?" That's the 30%, and this is from the July survey so this is relative to the first half. "Are you flat?" You can see that fat middle 56%, and then you can see decrease is 7% and that's in the pink, and then 5% replacing. So good news here is more people are spending more, more customers spending more, than are spending less. Net score's the red subtracted from the green, so it comes out at roughly 20%, which is that's certainly not terrible. It's a legacy company that's been around a long time. So you would see a company that's a newbie, that's hot. We'd always talked about UI path automation anywhere, Snowflake, they're in the 70% range, but they're much, much smaller companies but they're growing very, very rapidly. So this is respectable and very common for a company that has been around as long as Commvault. >> Yeah, thanks so much for sharing that data, Dave. Of course, as you said, huge customer base, they've been around for awhile. I remember when we first did Commvault GO two years ago, very excited, very engaged user base. There was a good strategy discussion and an understanding for what Commvault needed to do to get to the cloud, but there was an understanding that they couldn't keep doing with the same team what had brought them to the place before. You always say, Dave, what got you to where you were isn't going to get you to where you need to go. Talk a little bit about the keynote. Last year at Commvault there were a couple of big pieces. Number one, is they really had their first SaaS offering with Metallic. And what the momentum has been on Metallic is, first of all, they made a big partnership announcement with Microsoft ahead of this event. Multi-year, Metallic has a few different solutions. One of them, of course, is to work on Office 365, so when we go to SaaS and we go to the cloud, we understand that data protection isn't something that just comes inherently. Some people thought, "Oh hey, I did it "in my own data center, but once I go to the cloud, well, "I'm sure it just takes care of things "like data protection and security." The answer is I still need to think about it, and the ecosystem has helped filling that gap. So Metallic was the first step and what we saw, Dave, really looks like a holistic refresh of the product line. Commvault back in recovery, Commvault disaster recovery, Commvault complete data protection, all aligning themselves to be more to what you were talking about, going to that full ratable model, and the other piece was Hedvig. So Hedvig software company, helping them to be in more cloud-native environments. And they launched a Hedvig X, so it's the full integration of that solution. Less than a year from the acquisition to fully integrating it and making it an offering that's ready for what they're doing. >> Is that they're cloud play? Actually Hedvig is sort of in that space, right? As with cloud you think subscription, but also Commvault is basically putting its stack in the cloud, right? And taking advantage of cloud services, right? >> Yeah, absolutely, Dave. Metallic, specifically is built for the cloud. >> So let's talk a little bit about cloud, I have some other data here. And the cloud, if you pull up that next slide, the cloud has been eating away at on-prem vendors. We know it's been growing at 2000, 3000 basis points higher than the on-prem business. But what this slide shows is that same net score methodology that we talked about before, but it's filtering, you can see in the left hand side here, it's filtering on AWS, Google and Microsoft. So there's 585, AWS, Google and Microsoft customers in the ETR dataset. There's like about 1200 in the overall survey this quarter. And this shows the over time the net score of Commvault in those accounts, so you can see, as I was saying, go back to 2018, you can see prior to Sanjay taking over this thing was dipping and dipping, losing momentum coming into kind of the April survey and then July survey of 2019, and it's kind of bouncing off the bottom now. So it seems like they're making some progress there, and what we want to see is that momentum continue to grow. Again, net score is a measure of spending velocity. So what you want to see is as that transition occurs more sort of a net score increases over each quarter. >> Yeah, well, Dave as you mentioned earlier, there absolutely are some headwinds potentially there, but it looks like Sanjay, at least, has stopped some of the bleeding on this and, stated goal of course, to return to growth. And so we would want to see that go from just up one or 2% to be able to track with the cloud. Probably a good time for us to talk a little bit about the competition, Dave, because if you talk just in cloud markets, are you tracking along with the cloud? So the hyperscales themselves, of course, growing at very huge percent. A company that's been around as long as Veritas isn't necessarily going to be doing 35 to 70% growth as you would see from AWS or Azure. But what do you see out there for some of the competition in general, who were some of the key players that we need to look at? >> Yeah, so I mean, think about the backup guys. I mean, the traditional space, you've mentioned Veritas. Veritas, by the way, in the ETR survey data is not playing well, they're in the red. They've been losing share, the share donors, as they say, you've got some big players, Dell EMC, obviously, kind of living off the data domain base. Remember Dell EMC fell behind, prior to the Dell acquisition, they weren't investing heavily in the data protection business. They were kind of living milking off that data domain base. Back when you were there, they had the networker and they had Avamar, and so there was a bifurcated thing. Frank Slootman came and he tried to clean some of that up, but then he was onto his next big thing, of course, it was ServiceNow. And so, you know, Dell is a big footprint, obviously, but they're very hardware centric, as you know, so they have a big hardware agenda. IBM with Spectrum Protect, Veem was hurting them. They did the deal with Catalogic to kind of stop the bleeding, he kind of did. Again, big install base, and then you got the sort of newcomers. Veem is not really a newcomer anymore. I think they've been around for 15 years, big acquisition. Decent momentum in the market, especially started the Microsoft base, and they're kind of everywhere, so you see them. And of course you see Cohesity and Rubrik spend a lot of money, as you said. And it's interesting, let me pull up this next data point. In the ETR data set this past quarter you saw Cohesity actually overtake Rubrik. Rubrik was very, very strong earlier on. They're kind of neck and neck in this chart, what this chart shows is not net score, it's now market share. Now market shares, not real market shares, Stu. I have to be cautious here because it's not like IDC tracks market share. What it is is pervasiveness in the dataset. So in other words, within this segment, the number of mentions of the vendor divided by the total mentions in the segment, okay? So it's really pervasiveness or presence in the data set. And what this shows is you can see we've got 65 Commvault customers in the survey, and it shows the impact of Veem, Rubrik and Cohesity in the Commvault base. And you can see up through, let's see, that's the recent surveys is you see the increases up to the increasing red line is Veem, and then you got the Rubrik line and then the Cohesity line, but they're all recently, since the October 19th survey, down, trending down. So that says to me that Commvault is holding serve within its own base and actually doing better as these guys are declining in this base. You can see the comment that ETR made, "Rubrik, Cohesity and Veeam are all seeing "market share declines in shared accounts with Commvault," so that's good news. I think this is very important, Stu, and here's why. Is Commvault has got to hunker down and maintain those customers. It does not want to be a share donor much in the same way that Veritas has been. So that's a quick scan of the competitive marketplace. And again, from my standpoint, I'd like to see Sanjay maybe get a little bit more aggressive. I liked the acquisitions. Hedvig, it's great, deal with actually some more subscription, but I'd like to see them go hard after a cloud native. I have to dig into that, maybe you can comment, but really cloud native and multicloud across clouds being able to have that same experience on-prem as I do in the clouds at very high performance, very low latency. >> Yeah. Well, Dave, first of all, one thing, talk about the competitive win rate. That's something you always look at is how are you doing against the competitors? Not only did Sanjay come in, but you saw changes along how the channel chief, I believe, and the salespeople. So definitely reinvigorating that piece of it, as well as, Dave we saw, in the keynote. So the portfolio is updated, an aggressive engineering investment, some through acquisition, some through changing the code and moving in these environments, leveraging partnerships, great to see the Microsoft one, love to see something along the lines of Google. We understand Amazon, you play in that ecosystem, it is challenging to necessarily partner deeply with AWS, unless you're one of a few strong players in the marketplace, but working closer in cloud. And Dave, one thing I'd point out, last year, one of the things that really impressed me at Commvault GO is they did have some good developer actions. So when you talk about cloud native, of course, enabling developers is one of the key things. Like many companies out there, inside the company you've got developers, so how are you unleashing that? So Hedvig, a good acquisition along those lines, but you know, in the middle of the show floor, they had people that you set up with whiteboards and just go at it. So, you know, reminds me of days past when you used to have these engineering-driven shows where you could go in and really understand that. So helping to developers, enable them, backup and recovery just needs to tie into all my DevOps and IT Ops and all my other environments to make things just more automated because also you talk cloud native, Dave, automation has to be a big piece of it. And to your point, we actually have really good guests coming on the program. Not only will we have Sanjay, relatively fresh off the keynote, I've got a panel with the product people to really dig in and understand that. We'll poke and prod at some of the cloud native pieces and understand where that's going, got their head of strategy also on the program. >> Yes, I think you're making a great point about automation. Just speaking about M&A for a moment, I like M&A, I like growth through M&A, I'm comfortable with that as long as it fits into the portfolio. Your point about automation, I see opportunities there for M&A, things like visibility, observability, obviously hot analytics, automated operations, IT Ops, anything that sort of removes labor and complexity and gives me visibility across clouds. That I think is something that could be interesting, again, as long as it fits into the portfolio. I'll say this, I mean, Sanjay was at EMC and knows M&A because I've no doubt they were bringing all their M&A candidates to Sanjay and saying, "Okay, what do you think of this tech, do you use it?" Probably kick the tires a little bit, so he, I'm sure, was a part of those. I'm sure he saw the good, the bad, and the ugly. You were there, EMC was pretty good at acquisitions, but then it got a little out of control. >> And Dave, talk automation, Sanjay came from Puppet. Puppet was one of the early companies along helping people move along from those manual tasks to how can we automate those? So, absolutely, Sanjay now a little over a year in there, starting to see from the product standpoint, and expect to see some of the trailing results as to how that moves forward. >> And then again, blending that, if it's a tuck in or whatever, maybe there's some big chess move out there. I would just suspect given Commvault's conservative nature you wouldn't see that. Although, they could do it. I mean, at their revenue level, their balance sheet would allow them to raise some debt, if they wanted to do that now would be the time to do it. But it's interesting, everybody's doing it and they're not. So I kind of liked the contrarian play. Given the opportunity in the market, given the TAM expansion through, beyond backup into data management, and it's a cloud and multicloud, I do think there's maybe an opportunity for them to be a little bit more aggressive. >> All right, well, Dave, thanks so much for helping us dig in and kick off our coverage. >> You're welcome, Stu. >> All right, stay with us. We have a bunch of interviews here for Commvault Future Ready. I'm Stu Miniman, and thank you for watching theCUBE. (gentle music)

>>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of Veem on 2020 brought to you by beam. >>Hi buddy. Welcome back to Veem on 2020. My name is Dave Vellante and you're watching the cubes coverage of EMR. This is the first time we've done it. Virtual VIMANA. We've got the, the Veem power panel, bill large and CEO, Jim Kruger, the CMO, Danny Allen. Who's the CTO and senior vice president product strategy. All I have been on earlier guys. Great to see you. Thanks for coming back. digging out of the power panel. Appreciate it. Good. Thank you. Okay. I want to start off a bill. you're going to get a business update, you know we've so I talk a lot about COVID. We can go back to that, but you guys, Mmm. You know, as a private company, you divulge more information. Yeah. Then most private companies. And we appreciate that as an independent guys, if you would bring up that, that one slide, you know, you shared this publicly well earlier. >>I mean, you guys are in a, okay. Billion in revenue now, 21% annual recurring revenue growth. We're going to 75,000 customers, 97% year on year increase in your universal, uh, license bookings. Mmm. Everything seems to be happening. Bill. What, uh, what can you tell us? Well, we had eight. Yeah. We had a great first quarter also that we kicked off where we had, or a transaction with, um, insight venture partners, which, and written the middle of a right in the middle of that quarter. At the end of it, we had that activity that went on, I think would have disrupted, did the business. It didn't land for Q1, really excited about that. We announced our growth, so that here recently, uh, pumped into our row pumped into our second quarter. We, we managed to transition everybody out of offices. We probably add seven per cent of our work for 75% of our work course. >>It needs to move. Yeah, they did that. We had a fantastic April. We're having a very good may. So it's just a great start, uh, with a great customer base. So I'm really excited about it. Okay. You mentioned insight. We obviously covered that. Mmm. Boarded on that. Okay. Insight. They like growth, you know, not like the old school, private equity, you know, suck money out. They want growth options down the road, personality. Maybe it's a rule of 40 rule, you know, the type of company. So that's gotta be exciting, uh, for you guys and your employees. Yeah. I think it's pretty exciting. We've been around a few of us. Who've been around the insight team since 2002. So, uh, a very well known a group of individuals to us. Yeah. Uh, they are focused in the software space and know the infrastructure space really well. >>Uh, my triple that hour, um, our lead on the insight team and his, um, his staff is that's move into, as we move into it, stepping up and moving into our Andrew very revenue focus versus part of a total contract. Bye. Nice. A nice resource to have for things that we might want to do in the future related acquisitions. So we're really excited about it. I mean, if I'm in VC right now, I'm looking at SAS, I'm looking and the software I'm looking for companies that have a, uh, an annual recurring revenue model I'm looking for adoption then. Okay. Okay. And those kinds of cases. Yeah. Do you guys fit that bill? Yeah. There may be a larger size and obviously the early stage startup, but that's kind of the profile of the the company that you want to invest in, in the 2020s, isn't it? >>Absolutely. And I'd also say it's the kind of company we want to invest in, in the future as we go forward to bring in new technologies and expand markets, addressable market, uh, back to comments, we had discussions owner, what's it look like in 2030? And it's like, yeah. Places we're heading. Yeah. Okay. So Danny, Pat Gelsinger is famous on the cube for saying that, look, if you don't ride the waves, can it be yup. Driftwood. So what are the mega trends that you guys are riding, uh, today and that you're seeing in the future? Good. We'll keep you ahead of the pack. Well, we clearly talk a lot about cloud data management. So act two for us is not just moving from perpetual licensing to subscription and evolving with American at a business level. It's also at a technical level. And so we invested heavily, as you know, we demoed earlier today, Veeam backup for office three six, five version. >>Hi, an important point act two for us is not just product. There's also product delivery. That's version, hi of a relief of a product to chemo three years ago. So the backup profits, three 65, we showed you Veem backup for AWS. And you saw from Anton as well, uh, supporting Google cloud storage and supporting all of the major, um, providers. So for us to not just ride the wave, but actually be ahead of everyone else it's to embrace cloud data management and give the customers what they really need. Well, I think you guys are in a unique position too. I mean, you know, if you're, if you, you guys obviously sell on prem, but if you're, there are not prem infrastructure, the company that really living on box margins, um, you know, you can talk the cloud talk, but it's not necessarily a tailwind. Where are you guys? >>So Danny, how is cloud, wait, how cloud is it tailwind of, you know, versus some of the other legacy players? Well, Veem has always been, we always highlight simple, flexible, reliable, but one of the, the parts of flexible of course, is being software defined. And we've been software defined from the very beginning. And if you're in a world where you have to go take a box, plug it into the data center and rack and stack it and do hi, okay. Be there physically. You're not going to survive in this type of environment. So being software defined help desk, not only when the data center, but to help our customers as they go through that evolution. Okay. On prem too, maybe just storing backups in the cloud to actually running their workloads in the cloud. >>Well, so Jim, I want to, I want to turn it to you sort of, I'm thinking about the Veeam brand. Uh, I, we talked earlier about how you guys have always punched above your weight, famous parties and sofa, but now billion dollars now entering a new era. Oh, wait. Yeah. It's ironic that we're now doing virtual events. Okay. No big giant party this year, but I feel like, I mean, you guys are what 14 year old company now. Okay. Kind of growing up your three and your colleagues are bringing, you know, lots of adult supervision. How should we think about, okay. Okay. The or V brand going forward. Yeah, no, I think the, the beam brand is critically important because, uh, there's just a, such a strong affinity and connection with customers. And I think one of the challenges as you get larger and go from 1 billion to 2 billion, a lot of companies miss the beat relative to staying connected to their customers. >>And that's something that we're putting a tremendous amount of focused on that first slide that you see, you flashed up no 91% customer satisfaction, the 75 net promoter score, which is three and a half times industry average. I think our key to success is, is not only bringing great products, the market, but looking at the holistic picture relative to supporting customers and customer satisfaction, which is a key driver of the company. Uh, well, it will help us to continue to build on the brands and, and have, you know, the, the best brand in the market. Well, I w I want to come back to, is the good, the marketing was in the, the panel. I mean, you think about digital. We feel like the war is going to be one in digital in the next a decade. I take the, you pick the GNC example and you think about just even the term, like customer relationship management, you know, we all use CRM systems. >>Yeah. I'm not sure I want to a relationship. Okay. GNC, but I do know this, I want a good deal. Right. If they're going to make me an offer, I'm going to, I'm going to look at that. And, Oh, these other brands, uh, that's digital that is having infrastructure and data, that's obviously protected to be able to offer that at the right time. Awesome. Versus if they can take advantage of it and have the candles. I wonder if you could talk about it, what you see as a, a marketing pro just in terms of digital and, and that customer intimacy. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I think it it's a multifaceted, I think one of the key things that, that, again, Veeam does, that's different than other, uh, companies is that we, we have a direct connection with our customers. So yeah, in our head of product management sends out an update every Sunday, and it goes into quite a bit of detail around sort of how to deploy this, how to deploy that. >>Oh, really? Yeah. Creating a digital journey for the customer from a marketing perspective, because yeah. Like within any situation, no, you, you don't want to talk to a salesperson right off the bat because you know, they're going to try to sell you. Uh, so you want to do something investigation, you need the, the contents and information to help you move along that journey until you get to the point where, okay, now it's time, I've kind of narrowed it down and I need to talk to someone to give me some more information. So I look at, you know, one of the key differentiators of Veem is, is that digital promise, uh, which I think from the founding of the company that rattler put into place, uh, here it is as forward. And when we continue to put a lot of focus on that digital experience, which I think gives us definitely a leg up on the competition. >>So bill, you got to place bets as the CEO. I'm interested in where you're placing bets. I mean, you've yeah. Okay. Some pretty substantial investments in the, your partner, a network. Oh, you've got some big names partners that are okay, you're moving a lot of products, you know, through those guys, obviously your heritage as a company is, is okay. Technical development. Uh, you, you are very successful sales organization, but where are you placing your chips on the table these days? And maybe especially in the context of, of this pandemic, if anything changed in your thinking. Yeah. Well, the vets will always be placed on the product side of it. Yeah. That's a, that's a big products. You go partners and you go our employees and those are the big bets that will make, what are we doing on the partner side work, continuing yeah. Pretty aggressive activity and making sure these partners have a simpler place as I've discussed. >>Yeah. Before to do business with them. It's more challenging the larger unit. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, we'll keep that focus on it. The product offering has been, again, always go back to any of our taglines. It just works, but it's in the lab, we're going to win. We're going to win that technical decision a process. And then we're putting it up pretty big bets on our employee base. We're all over the world. 4,300. Yeah. The, uh, I think the decisions we have, like a lot of companies have moving forward are going to be, where are you going to work from? You're going to work from that home office. Are you're going to combine it back into the office or are you going to not, you're just going to do, you know, you're going to go back the way things are. I don't think that's going to happen at all. >>So, so best will always be on bringing good product to market technical decisions. So let's, let's talk to Andy about the product. Um, I mean, you've, by saying you've grown up, you've gone from yeah. Relatively narrow yup. Portfolio to now expanding a lot of different use cases, many, many, you know, several different clouds on prem hybrid. Yeah. Et cetera. Mmm. How do you ensure it, Danny, from, uh, from, uh, product stamp, right. That you don't just get a, a collection of point product that you actually have yep. Platform that even, you know, for instance, your licensing model very easily bored. Yeah. That notion, um, how, how do you ensure that you're more of a platform if you will, than just that a bunch of selection of product, the answer to that would be focused maniacal focus. So it's interesting that you brought up licensing. So one of the things that we're very focused on is making that licensing can move across all these different types of infrastructure. >>So no, the universal license allows you to do that. You can move a workload from physical to virtual, to cloud, to back, um, the application services call with, uh, with his hang the license. But we also do that product level too. One of the interesting things that we've been focused on is it's something internally, we call it the Veeam integration platform that enables you to have a central common control playing across the entire organization. But yet you can deploy in the need of environments that make the most sense. So if you think about what we showed you earlier today with beam backup rate Ws, you're running on a, an interface that you deploy out of the AWS marketplace, but that product actually integrate back into Veem availability suite. So that's true of being backup for AWS, Roger being backup from Nutanix. Every time we, we add a new one capability platform, whether it's fast or virtual or wow, we make sure that it's still cause that central connection to the main control plane. >>And that's why we call this five data management, because it gives you that data management cross all of these different infrastructures. Okay. It's clearly not easy to do, but the focus that we have put on this result, then our customers, the class. Okay. Ultimately, so I want to ask you guys about culture, Jim, a start with you. I mean, a lot of people obviously, sorry, averted or asking, I'm still going to have parties. Uh, you got your two founders and sort of, you know, set good, you know, rat mirror would always be right there in the mix lap. Last one to leave, uh, you know, very hard charging and that's kind of steep. the Veem culture, but I'm interested in, and if, if there's been any sort of discernible change, as you get bigger and bigger, how you're able to maintain that culture, you know, w what are some of the things that you want to, I want to keep, and maybe some of the things that you want to evolve. >>Yeah, no great question. And I think culture is, um, I'm a big believer. Yeah. That culture can really differentiate a company in the marketplace. And I think themes culture, uh, in the past has really done that effectively. And I think that's, you know, it shows in the success of the company. So I definitely see it as, you know, as my job, along with the rest of the executive team continued to, to carry that torch forward. Uh, one of the things that I learned coming to beam was, was really winning the hearts and minds of, of the, the, you know, the customers that you're serving. And so that, that can be anything from a party, uh, being totally open to your customers, listening to your customers. I've given them different channels to give you a feedback and just being a company that's easy to do business with. I think it's critically important. And those are some of the key things from a cultural perspective. Uh, that's how we want to carry forward. You mentioned car charging, absolutely being, being aggressive in the marketplace, uh, but bringing solutions to market that really hit the sweet spot. Oh. Relative to customer need, I think is again, one of the, the cultural pieces and that maniacal focus on customer satisfaction, which is absolutely key. >>So, uh, well, I, I wonder bill, if you could comment, maybe in this context, you know, part of your job of course, is Tam expansion traditionally been a, a European based company moving. So the U S I'm curious as to what effect that will have both culturally, you know, and on Tam as well. You're extremely successful, uh, in, in overseas. Oh, of course. So there's maybe even more penetration within the U S and obviously, you know, throughout the call, we've certainly talked a lot about cloud, but maybe your thoughts on it. Okay. Yeah, no, thanks very much. Hopefully you see no impact on culture, in the sense of our move from a European headquarters to a U S headquarters. We definitely felt it important to bring it and U S headquarters in place. We now have moved all us shareholders. Uh, so it's really our culture, but built on yeah. >>Core values back in 2012, that really the everything else branches off of innovate and iterate it's about everybody sells. We clearly add that yeah. A goal for everyone in the company and yeah. And the fact that we also want to win. So we'll fight hard to win bringing it to the U S okay. A lot of our competitors are based in the U S we think we can put up, uh, even though we've got great numbers against all our competitors, we'll even bring the fight much harder. Now that we're in the United States as a headquarter place, change nothing else internationally, globally. So Danny, every I'll five or seven years or so, you know, Gartner or IDC or whomever, but the service is that we just did a survey. Yeah. X percent of the customers are going to rethink their backup. That is in the next 24 months. >>You see that literally every half a decade. Um, so w w what's what's the driving that now, I mean, certainly cloud is a, is it which factor? Sure. Edge. We're going to be talking about the edge for the next many, many years. And then, and it's really going to start to drive revenue at some point kind of like the cloud was 10 years ago. Uh, but so talk about how you guys sort of stay relevant in that conversation and what customers should be about in terms of those transitions. Well, you know, every customer says I'm going to reevaluate my backup solution five or seven years, but the reality is what's happened. Yeah. Industry itself goes through transition. So we go from physical to virtual and as they go to virtual, for example, they say, Hey, I can't use my legacy providers. So I'm going to choose a new one. >>They choose Veeam. And then of course, we go to cloud and we're going to go to containers and we're going to go to edge. And every time he goes through those iterations, there is an opportunity four, the next generation of wow. Form, uh, to emerge. And so beam's focus here is to make sure that we're ahead of those trends to make sure we're thinking ahead of our customers. So right now, for example, you know, I, I spent an hour in order to, in the amount of time thinking about cloud and containers so that when the customer gets there, when they get the edge, when they get through all of these things, but they have a data management platform that protects them. And step one is always going to be the same. I always say the step one for, for every iteration of infrastructure is just ingest the data because you need to protect it. >>It's only after you protected and begin to manage it, be integrated into the business. Can you be into unleashed, but we go through this cycle over and over again. And ultimately it's the, it's the, the vendor, it's the partner that is most trusted, that wins as Jim alluded to our NPS scores for themselves, our customer base. Great, sorry, uh, self our, our intimacy with the customers. Great. Awesome. So, yeah, as long as we keep that close connection, then we think we're well positioned to the lead as we go through the next iteration of infrastructure. Okay. Let's talk about the competition, Danny. Let's stay with you. Okay. Okay. You've got some, well-funded not even startups anymore. Know the companies that are kind of going after the base. You've got a huge install base okay. Of legacy companies. I mean, I think it's easier for, for some of those guys to attack, you know, sort of a box space, the solution, you guys are more software, but I'm sort of interested in, in your take Danny on the shiny new toys and that have obviously have momentum in the marketplace. >>Yeah. You know, the, the shiny new toys, they come out with a solution that is very packaged up and black box. You can't actually, uh, customize it very much for the user need. And that's, we don't believe that that's going to work in the longterm. And the reason I say that, okay, the pandemic we're in, if you can't go into the data center to rack and stack a box, if you can't actually working with the infrastructure that's already in place, then you're not positioned to work well in the longterm. And, and so we have this unfair advantage we've been around for over a decade. We integrate with over 45 different it's storage vendors. That's not including the wild vendors, you know, all of our partners. And so we do have an unfair advantage with a history of all of these integrations, but, but that flexibility is really what our customers need. >>They don't want to be law into the data center. They don't know two, three years from now, their strategy might change. They might say, take the workload, moving to the cloud. And so if your whole focus is on selling your customers, something that I used them to their data center, that in itself is a challenge. And being software defined we're, we're well positioned to make future for any evolutions that happen in the market. Okay. So we're in a good place. I'm, you know, well, knock on wood, but I think we're going to keep going. Yeah. That's an interesting answer. Not one that I expected. Okay. Got it. Makes sense. In the context. Good QA we had with Andy Jassy a while ago. Yeah. Kind of pushing them on, you know, the zillion API APIs. And he basically had a similar answer. Obviously cloud services is different, but essentially saying, we don't know where the market's going. >>So we want to have very granular roll. Yeah. You're kind of a primitive level, uh, so that we have that flexibility and maybe there's trade off, you know, sometimes just in terms of what you called out of the box, but it's a very handy Jessie like answer, it sort of strikes me. Hm. Well, it's certainly true that the, you know, customers don't know a year from now, uh, they've been using that hardware, but a year from now two years from now, we run into another market impediment. They might want that money back. They might want, you might want flexibility to expand into it, different geography or take advantage of it, the advantage of the elasticity of the cloud and buying a piece of hardware. Just the very fact that you buy hardware that essentially ties you into that hardware, at least three years, probably being software defined. >>You can continue to reuse and leverage all the assets that you've already had committing to a lock-in okay. Period of time. So, so from a, from a marketing standpoint, Jim strategy, brand customer intimacy, what sure you're ready. Well, Dan, you already talked a little bit about it in terms of, uh, you know, kind of the, the three cornerstones of, of, of how we think our simplicity, flexibility and reliability. And, you know, as bill talked about, you know, when, when we get into now into a customer, and if they're testing us out trial in us out nine times out of 10, we're going to win, uh, because they see, they see those three key things and those three key things, uh, we hear on a daily basis from our customers and how important that is. So we continue to build out on each of those, uh, the challenges, keeping it simple. >>And that's an area that we have to continue to focus on. Uh, but I think those are the key differentiators for us going forward. I think the flexibility piece as the integration with all the storage, our ecosystem of partners, well, we have, I think, close to 40 partners that are sponsoring, uh, the on here. Uh, so that's a, that that's a key differentiator because we, we work with basically everybody we're agnostic, uh, and again, just easy to do business with an, a true partner. Okay. I got it. I got one more question for Danny and then I want to, I want to ask, well, it was, but okay. Guys, feel free to chime in on this one as well. But some of the things we haven't talked about, well, Danny, uh, containers protecting containers, uh, the edge, you know, these are all sort of emerging opportunities. >>I know you've got some, yes. You know, on the container side, the edge is early days. There's, you know, whole new models of, you know, potentially a lot of data going to be, we created unclear how much it's going to have to be persisted, but certainly would that much data, you know, the IDC forecasts, a lot of it's going to have to be. So your thoughts on some of those other emerging trends that we haven't talked. Okay. Well, the key to this segment of America are our partners. Trust us. We're thinking about this ahead of when they will actually need it. And you're right. I think we're early days in containers. I think we're early days in edge. We don't know, you know, we have a partner ducks unlimited where they're storing data for 60 years, use it from IOT sensors and they keep it for 60 years because they don't know in the future, if that data is going to be relevant. >>And so our focus is to make sure that we're ahead of our customer base in terms of thinking of it. And then yeah, making sure that our platform supports what they need as they need it. You want to be careful about going too far in advance sometimes in the industry to hear about, you know, people who are talking about magic 60 Dustin's solving, okay. Crazy problems that our customers don't actually have. We're very pragmatic. We want to make sure that problems that we're addressing that are platform fundamentally addresses where they are today. And then also be in those discussions with them about where they're going to be tomorrow. Well, maybe some of that magic pixie dust go, go into the COVID vaccine. That would be good. >>They'll bring us home. So, you know, the virtual forklifts are breaking down, came on 2220. What are the big takeaways from Europe? Your first Vivaan as CEO, we've been to many, um, you know, I know, but w what are the big takeaways as the, as the virtual trucks are pulling away? Yeah. Thanks very much for asking that question. We, uh, you know, we did do our first VM on, in 2014, and I can still remember when rat came, I mean said, let's, let's do this. And it's like, Oh, you've got it. Excuse me. This is going to cost a fortune. Why would we ever end? And then he's obviously right. It continues to be right. So, Hey, the story about Veem is gross. And when you're growing, you got funds available. People interested you to innovate. You mentioned containers. Danny did also at Kubernetes and, you know, we've got our forensic cast and that are here with us. >>And yeah, those are all important relationships and will continue to develop relationships. Yes. Cool., uh, we've supported, we've got great customers. we have a gross engine. We're going to continue that we don't plan on being comfortable with where we are. We'll continue to enter it in, go after it. Mmm. Additional Tam, but we'll also take care of that core base we came from. So I'm really excited about yeah. And a lot of great breakout sessions. Uh, I keep, um, right. Yeah. Coobernetti's was on, there was a lot of great ones. I did like the one though. And it was like, fall in love with tape all over again. So when I first saw that they brought it, I went running from my age, correct dates and my John Fogarty NCCR, I found one. Uh, so, uh, had to get readjusted to not. So in any event, I do think we like to have a lot of fun. >>You'll see that we get back. Yeah. Yeah. See where we go. As far as the virtual versus it, an onsite. Yeah. A in the future, we landing on site when, and if so, you'll and you're there. You'll cool. We'll be at the party. Yeah, indeed. And I, but I do think there's going to be some learnings that we carry forward and, you know, I think for awhile and maybe even perfect quite a long time, there'll be some kind of hybrid going on with the same deliver, delivering a hybrid world. Guys. Thanks so much for coming to the cube, making this a successful power panel. It was really a pleasure having you. Great. Thanks for having me. Thanks. Thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Volante for the cube. Keep it right. There are tenuous coverage, the mom, 2024, right back.

>>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of Veem on 2020 brought to you by beam. >>Hi buddy. Welcome back to the cubes. Ongoing coverage of Veem on 2020s Veem online 2020 I'm Dave Volante and Rick van overs here as a senior director of product strategy at Veem. Rick, it's always a great pleasure to see you. I wish we could see each other face to face. >>Yeah. You know, it's different this year, but, uh, yeah, it is always great to be on the cube. I think, uh, uh, in 2018 had an eight year gap and it's a N a couple of times we've been back since and yeah, happy to be back on the cube. >>So how's it going with you guys with the online format? I mean, breakouts are big for you cause you're, you're profiling some new products that we're going to get into, how's it all working for you? >>Well, it's been different. It's a good way to explain it in one word different, but the reality is I have a, uh, pardon, the language, a side hustle here, where at Veeam, I've worked with the event team to kind of bring the best content. And for the breakouts, that's an area that I've been working a lot with our speakers and our, some of our partners, external experts, users, and people who have, you know, beaten ransomware and stuff like that. But I've worked really hard to aggregate the content and get the best blend of content. And we kind of have taken an interesting approach where the breakouts are that library of content that we think organizations and the people who attend the event really take away the most. So we've got this full spectrum from R and D deep level stuff to just getting started type of stuff, and really all types of levels in between. And yeah, we want the breakouts to focus on generally available products, right? So I've worked pretty diligently to bring a good spread across the, uh, different products. And then a little secret trick we're doing is that into the summer, we're going to open up new content. So there's this broadcast agenda that we've got publicized, but then beyond that, we're going to sneak in some new content into the summer. >>Well, I'm glad you're thinking that way, because you know, a lot of what a lot of people are doing. There's a church trying to take their physical events and mirror it to the, to the digital or the virtual. And I think so often with physical events, people forget about the afterglow. And so I'm glad you guys are thinking about it upfront. >>Yeah. It has to be a mechanism that we've used it a couple of different ways, one to match how things are going to be released. Right? Cause being, we're always releasing products across the different set. I mean, we have one flagship product, but then the other products have their own cycles. So if something works well for that, we'll put it into the summer library. And then it's also a great opportunity for us to reach deep and get some content from people that we might not have been able to get before. In fact, we had one of our engineers who's based in Australia and great resource, great region, strong market for us, but I can't w if we were to have the in person event, I can't bring somebody from Australia for one session, but this was a great way to bring her expertise to the event without, you know, having the travel burden and different variety of speakers and different varieties of content. So there's ways that we've been able to build on it. But again, the top level word is definitely different, but I feel like it's working for sure. >>So Rick, give us the helicopter view of some of the product areas that we should be really be aware of as it relates to what you guys are doing at Veem on 2020. And then we'll, we'll drill in give us the high level though. >>Yeah. So for people attending the event and online, my advice really is that we're spread across about 75 to 80% of the content is for technical people. 20% of the content in the breakouts is going to be for decision makers or executives, that type. And then within that, the context of the technical content, we want to have probably 10 to 15% being like presenters from our R and D group. So very technical, uh, low level type discussions, highest level architect type stuff, kind of after that generic use cases, a nice and in the middle area, because we have a lot of people that are getting started with our products, like maybe they're new to the office three 65 backup, or they're new to backing up natively in the cloud. We have a lot of contexts around the virtual machine backup and storage integration, all those other great things, but the platform is kind of spread out at Veeam. There's a lot to take in. So the thought is wherever anyone is on their journey with any of the products and not some, that's a hard task to do with a certain number of slots. We want to provide something for everyone at every level. So that's the, that's the helicopter view. >>So let me ask you a couple of follow ups on that. So let's start with office three 65. Now you guys have shared data at this event, uh, talking about that most customers just say, Oh yeah, well, I trust Microsoft to do my backup. Well, of course, as we, well, well know it, backup is one thing, but recovery is everything. And so explain why, uh, what will explain the value that you guys bring? Why can't I just rely on the SAS vendor, uh, to, to do my backup and recovery? >>Well, there's a lot to that question, Dave, the number one thing I'll say is that at Veeam, we have partnerships with Microsoft. You have where HPE, all the household brands of it. And in many of these situations, we've always come into the market with the platform itself, providing a basic backup. I'll give windows, for example, anti backup, right? Yeah. Those, you know, it's there, but there's always a market for more capabilities, more functionality, more portability. So we've taken office three 65 is a different angle for backup. And we lead with the shared responsibility model, Microsoft as well as the other clouds, make it very clear that data classification and that responsibility of data that actually sits 100% with the customer. And so, yes, you can add things to the platform, but if we have organizations where we have things like I need to retain my content forever, or I need a discovery use case. >>And then if you think about broader use cases like one drive for business data, especially with the rapid shift of work from home organizations may not be not so much using the file server, but using things like one drive for business, for file exchanges, right? So having a control plane over that data is, is very important. So we really base it on the shared responsibility and Microsoft is one of our strongest partners. So they are very keen for us to provide solutions that are going to consume and move data around to, to meet customer needs in the cloud and in the SAS environment. For sure. So, you know, it's been a very easy conversation for our customers and it's our fastest growing product as well. So, uh, this, this product is doing great. Uh, I don't have the quarterly numbers, but we just released the mid part of Q4. We just released the newest release, which implemented object storage support. So that's been the big ask for our customers, right? So it's a, it's that product's doing great. >>Yeah. So, you know, that notion of shared responsibility, you hear that a lot in cloud security, you're applying it to cloud data protection, which, you know, security and data protection are now, you know, there's a lot of gray area between them now. Uh, and I think it's, you know, security is a, or data protection is a fundamental part of your security strategy, but that notion of shared responsibility is very important. And one that's oftentimes misunderstood because people hear, Oh, it's in the cloud. Okay. My cloud vendor has got to cover it, but what does, what does that shared responsibility mean? Ultimately, isn't it up to the customer to own the end end result. >>It is. And I look at, especially Microsoft, they classify their software for different ways on prem software, uh, software as a service, the infrastructure as a service. Uh, I forget what the third one is, but they have so many different ways that you can package their software, but in all of them, they put the data classification for the customer and it same for other clouds as well. And when, if I'm an organization today, if I'm running data in a SAS platform, if I am running systems in iOS platforms, in the hyperscale public clouds, that is an opportunity for me to really think about that control plane of the data and the backup and restore responsibility, because it has to be easy to use. It has to be very consumable so that customers can avoid that data loss or be in a situation where the complexity to do a restore is so miserable that they may not even want to go do it. I've actually had conversations with organizations as they come to Veeam. That was their alternative. Oh, it's just too painful to do. Like, why would you even do that? You know, so that, that shared responsibility model across the different data types in the cloud and on-premise well, and SAS models, that's really where we find the conversations go pretty nicely. >>Right. And if it's too complicated, you won't even bother testing it. So I want to ask you something about cloud native. You mentioned cloud native, your cloud native capabilities, um, and I'm, I'm inferring from that, that you basically are not just taking your on prem stack and shoving it into the cloud. You're actually taking advantage of the native cloud services. Can you, can you explain what's going on there and maybe some product specifics? >>Sure. So, you know, Veeam has this reputation of number one, VM backup, you know, here in my office, I have posters from all over the years and somewhere down here is number one, VM backup. And that's where we cut our teeth and got our name out there. But now if you're an Azure, if you're an Amazon, we have cloud native backup products available. In fact, the last time you and I spoke was that an Amazon reinvent where we launched the Amazon product. And then last month we launched the Azure product, which provides cloud native backup for Azure. And so now we have this cloud feature parody and those products are going to move very quickly as well. We've had the software as a service product for office three 65, where we keep adding services. And we saw in the general session, we're going to add protection for a new service in office three 65. >>So we're going to continue to innovate around these different areas. And there's also another cloud that we announced a capability for as well. So, you know, the platform at Veem it's growing, and it's amazing to see this happen cause you know, customers are making cloud investments and there's no cloud for all right. So some organizations like this cloud that cloud are a little bit of these two clouds combined. So we have to really go into the cloud with customer needs in mind because there's no one size fits all approach to the cloud, but their data, everybody knows how important that is. >>So to that end though, each, each cloud is going to have a set of native services and you've got to develop specific to that cloud, right? So that you can have the most, the lowest, highest performance, the most efficient, the lowest cost data protection solution backup and recovery possible is that, I mean, taking advantage of those native cloud services is going to be unique for each cloud, right? Because AWS has cloud and Azure cloud. Those are, those are different, you know, technically underneath, is that, is that right? >>You're absolutely right. And the cost models, they have different behaviors across the clouds. In fact, the breakout that I did here at the event with Melissa Palmer, those who are interested in the economics of the cloud should check that out because the cloud is all about consuming those resources. When I look at backup, I don't want backup to be a cost prohibitive insurance policy. Basically I want backup to be a cost effective yet resilient technology that when we're using the cloud, we can kind of balance all these needs. And one of the ways that beam's done that is we've put in cost estimators, which it's not that big of a like flashy part of the user interface, but it's so powerful to customers. The thought is if I want to consume infrastructure as a service in the cloud, and I want to back up via API calls, snapshots to ECE, two instances only nice and high performance, nice and fast. >>But the cost profile of that if I kept them for a year is completely different than if I used object storage. And what we're doing with the Veeam backup for Azure and Amazon products is we're putting those numbers right there in the wizard. So you could say, Hey, I want to keep two years of data. And I have snapshots and I have object storage, totally different cost profiles. And I'll put those costs testaments in there. And you can make egregious examples where it'll be like 10 and 20 X the price, but it really allows customers to get it fast, to get it cost efficient. And more importantly, at the end of the day, have that protection that they need. And that's, you know, that's something that I've been trying to evangelize at this cost. Estimator is a really big deal. >>Yeah. Provides transparency so that you can let the business, you know, drive sort of what the, what the data protection level is as opposed to sort of either, whether it's a one size fit all or you're under protected or overprotected and spending too much, I asked Anton is going to kind of, how do you prioritize it? Because basically his answer was we look at the economics and then ultimately you're giving tools to allow the customer to decide, >>Yeah, you don't want to have that surprise cloud bill at the end of the month. You don't want to have, um, you know, waste in the cloud and Anton's right. The economics are very important. The modeling process that we use is interesting. I had a chat with one of the product managers who is basically in charge of our cloud economic modeling and to the organizations out there. This is a really practical bit is, think about modeling, think about cloud economics, because here's the very important part. If you've already implemented something it's too late and what I mean by that, the economics, if they're not right when you implement it, so you're not modeling ahead of time. Once you implement, you can monitor it all you want, but you're just going to monitor it off the model. So the thought is, this is all a backwards process. You have to go backwards with the economics, with the modeling, and that will lead you to no surprises down the road. For sure. >>I want to ask you about the COVID impact generally, but specifically as it relates to ransomware, I mean, we've had a lot more inquiries regarding ransomware. There's certainly a lot more talk about it in the press. What have you seen, uh, specifically with respect to ransomware since the pandemic and since the lockdown. >>So that's something that's near and dear to my heart on the technology team here at product strategy, everyone has like a little specialization industry specialization. Ransomware's mine. So good ask. So the one thing that sticks out to me a lot is identifying where ransomware comes in and around. I have one data point that indicated around 58 or so percent of ransomware comes in through remote desktop. And the thought here is if we have shifted to remote access and new working models, what really worries me, Dave is when people hustle, when people hurry and the thought here is you can have it right. Or you can have it right now in mid March, we needed to make a move right now. So I worry about UN UN incomplete security models, right? People hurrying to, um, implement and maybe not taking their security, right. Especially when you think about most ransomware can come in through remote desktop. >>I thought fish attacks were the main attack vector, but I had some data points that told me this. So I have been, and I just completed a great white paper that those watching this can go to dot com and download. But the thought here is I just completed a great white paper on tips to beat ransomware and yes, Veeam has capabilities, but here's the logic. Dave. I like to explain it this way, beating ransomware. And we had a breakout that I recorded here at the event, encourage everyone to watch that I had two users share their story of how they beat ransomware with Veem. Two very different ways too. Any product is, or is not necessarily ransomware resilient. It's like going through an audit. And what I mean by that is people ask me all the time is being compliant to this standard or that standard it's 100% dictated how the product's implemented, how the product's audited, same with ransomware. >>It's 100% dictated on how Veem is implemented. And then what's the nature of the exploit. And so I break it down to three simple things. We have to educate. We have to know what threats are out there. We have to know who is accessing, what data. And then the big part of it is the implementation. How have we implemented Veeam? Are we keeping data in immutable buckets in the cloud? Are we keeping data with an air gap? And then three, the remediation when something does happen, how do we go about solving that problem? I talked to our tech support team who deals with it every day and they have very good insights, very good feedback on this phenomena. And that they've helped me shape some of the recommendations I put in the paper. But, uh, yeah, it's a 30 page paper. I don't know if I can summarize it here. That's a long one for me, but, uh, the threats real, and this is something we'll never be done with. Right. I have, I've done two other papers on it and I'm going to have another one soon after that, but we're building stuff into the product. We're educating the market. And, um, you know, we're winning, we're seeing like I had the two customers, um, beat ransomware, great stories. I think I learned so much hearing from someone who's gone through it and that you can find that in the, in the Vermont broadcast for those attending here. >>Well, you've touched on a couple of having them take advantage of the cloud guys who have these immutable mutable buckets that you can, you can leverage. Um, a lot of people don't even don't even know about that. Um, and then, like you say, create an air gap and presumably there's best practice around how often you write to that bucket and how often you create, you know, that air gap you may be, you may be change up the patterns. I don't know other, other thoughts on that. >>Well, I collectively put, I've created a term and uh, nobody's questioning me on it yet, so that's good, but I'm calling it ultra resilient storage. And what I'm referring to is that immutable backup in the cloud. And if we, it becomes a math calculation, you know, if you have one data point in there, that's good. But if you had a week's worth of data points, that's better. If you had a month's worth of data points, that's even better. But of course those cost profiles are going to change. Same thing with tape tapes, a an air gap, removable media, and I go back and forth on this, but some of the more resilient storage snapshot engines can do ultra resilient techniques as well, such as like, uh, pure storage, safe mode and NetApp snap fall. And then the last thing is actually a Veeam technology. It's been out for three, four years now, insider protection. >>It's a completely out of band copy of backup data that that Veeam cloud connect offers. So my thought here is that these ultra resilient types, those are best defense in these situations. And, you know, it's, it's a, it becomes a calculated risk of how much of it do I want to keep, because I want to have the most restore options available. I want to have no data loss, but I also don't want it old. Right. You know, there's a huge decline in value taking your business back a year ago, because that's the last tape you had, for example, I want today's or yesterday's backup if I'm in that type of situation. So I go through a lot of those points in my paper, but I hope that, um, those out there fighting the war on ransomware have the tools. I know they have the tools to win with them. >>Well, it's like we were talking about before and ransomware is a really good example of the, the blurring lines between security and backup and recovery. Of course. Uh, what role do analytics play in terms of providing transparency and identifying anomalous behavior in the whole ransomware equation? >>Well, the analytics are very important and I have to be really kind of be transparent, you know, VMs, backup company, right? We're not a security tool, but this is it's getting awfully close. And the, I don't want to say the long form historical definition of it. Security was something around this thing called a CIA triad, maintaining confidentiality, integrity, and availability of data. So security tools are really big on the confidentiality and integrity side of it. But on the availability side, that's ravine can come in. So the analytics come in to our play pretty naturally, right? We have, the Veem has had for years now, uh, an alarm that detects abnormal behavior in regards to CPU rights or CPU usage and disk, right IO. Like if there's both of those or abnormally high, that this is what we call possible ransomware activity. Or if we have a incremental backup, that is like 100% change rate, that's a bad sign, right. >>Things like that. And then the other angle is even on PCs desktops like this computer, I'm talking to you now on w we have just simple logic of, once you take a backup eject the drive. So it's offline, right? So analyzing where the threats come from, what kind of behavior they're going to have when we apply it to backup. Veem can have these built in analytic engines that are just transparently there for our customers. There's no deep reeducation necessary to use these, but the thought is we want a very flexible model. That's going to just provide simple ease of use, and then allow that protection with the threatscape to help it help the customers where we can, because no two ransomware threats are the same. That's the other thing. They are so varied in what they do everything from application specific to files. And now there's these new ones that upload data. The ransom is actually a data leak. They're not encrypting the data. They're just the ransom is to take down potentially huge amounts of data leakage, right? So, um, all kinds of threat actors out there for sure. >>You know, it's a last kind of line of questioning here. Rick is, as I've said, a number of times, it's just, it's ironic that we're entering this new decade in this pandemic hits. And everybody talks about the acceleration of certain trends. But if you think about the trends, you know, last decade, it's always performance and costs. We talked a lot about granularity. We talked about, you know, simplicity, you guys expanded your number of use cases. Uh, the, the support, the compatibility matrix, if you will, all those things are sort of things that you've executed on. As you look forward to this coming decade, we talked about cloud. I mean, we were talking about cloud, you know, back in the, in 2008, 2009 time frame, but it was a relatively small portion of the business. Now everybody's talking cloud. So cloud cloud, native DePaul discussion on ransomware and maybe even broader business resiliency, digital transformation, we've been, we've been given lip service in a lot of cases to digital transformation. All of a sudden that's changed. So as you put on, you pull out the telescope and look forward to the trends that are going to drive your thinking in themes, decision making. What do you look toward? >>Well, I think that laser focused on four things, backup solutions for cloud workloads, and there's incredible opportunity there, right? So yes, we have a great Azure story, great Amazon story. And in the keynote, we indicated the next cloud capability, but there's still more, there's more services in the cloud that we need to go after. There's also the sass pocket. We have a great office, three 65 story, but there's other SAS products that we could provide a story for. And then the physical and virtual platforms. I mean, I feel really confident there we've got really good capabilities, but there's always the 1%. And you know, what's in the corner. What's the 1% of the 1%, right? And those are workloads we can continue to go after. But my thought is, as long as we attack those four areas, we're going to be on a good trajectory to deliver on that promise of being that most trusted provider of cloud data management for backup solutions. >>So my thought here is that we're going to just keep adding products. And it's very important to make it sometimes a new product. We don't want to just bolt it on to backup and replication via 11 or be 10 for that, for that matter, because it'll slow it down, right? The cloud native products are going to have to have their own cadence, their own independent, um, development cycles. And they're going to move faster, right? Because they'll need to, so you'll, you'll see us continuing to add new products, new capabilities, and sometimes it'll, it'll intermix, you know, and that's, that's, that's the whole definition of a platform when one product is talking to another, from a management side, a control plane, given customer portability, all that stuff. So we're going to just go after a cloud, virtual, physical SAS, and new products and new capabilities to do it. >>Well, Rick, it's always a pleasure talking to you. Your home studio looks great. You look good. And, but, but nonetheless, hopefully we'll be able to see each other face to face here shortly. Thanks for coming on. >>Thank you, Dave. >>All right. And thank you for watching. Everybody's Dave Vellante and our continuous coverage of the Mon 2020, the online version of right back, right after this short break.

>>From around the globe with digital coverage of 2020 brought to you by beam. Welcome back. I'm assuming a man, and this is the cubes coverage of Veem on 2020 online. I'm really happy to welcome to the program. We had done the Milan many years, first time doing it online and we have two first time guests. the center square. We have Daniel freed. He is the GM and senior vice president of AMEA and the head of worldwide sitting on the other side of the screen. Is it David Harvey? He's the vice president of Dietrich alliances. Both of them, of course, with beam. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. >>Thank you. >>All right, Daniel, maybe start with you, uh, you know, the online event, obviously, uh, you know, it gives us, you know, there's some allergens, but there's also some opportunities rather than, you know, thousands of us gathering in Las Vegas where right. There's a diversity of locations because if you look up and down the street, the strip, um, and instead we really have a global event in an operation, unity, I'm speaking to you where you are in Asia right now. What, what is, you know, the online event mean? And you know, how you can relate to, you know, how many countries do you have a attending the event. Okay. Yeah. >>Okay. So, so the good, the good thing about, about being online is, as you mentioned, as you said, is, is we can have all, all people from all countries, all around the world present. Of course we are surely, uh, now with my responsibility, my worldwide responsibility for the channels, uh, all countries in the world, we have partners of all in all countries in the world, which means that all our teams, as well as all our butlers are virtual things or the kid limits, uh, of, of joining that, that event today. But that's, that's why I'm very, very happy to have these virtual events, which is much easier. And they're heading all people try flying in from all the different parts of the world, do they guess? Right. And, and, and David, you know, also with alliances standpoint, I assume since, you know, they don't actually have to fly to Vegas. We've got the special guest appearances by Satya Nadella, uh, you know, Arvin, Krishna, you know, all of the, you know, Andy Jassy, you know, everyone's coming in, but no, and also seriousness from an Alliance standpoint, uh, you know, we'd love to hear how you're, you're working with them., uh, for, for the global event. >>Yeah, no, absolutely. And security is having a tough time keeping them at Bay right now. I mean, the online thing is handy because we can just cut them off, but, uh, yeah. Uh, but you're exactly right. It, the support of the alliances has been fantastic. Uh, everyone was trying to adjust to this new world we're in, but what you're seeing this week, um, he's a fantastic mom's body alliances. So once in Mike, all items should really work and we're doing the same for their events. And it's just a really nice >>If >>Camaraderie is coming together. And so, um, they've been great in supporting us as you've as seen through the week. Um, and we're excited about know whole vibe that getting in a commitment >>That, that we're getting from the customers I'm from the alliances, which is really, really good. Excellent. Well, we know that, you know, Veeam is a hundred percent partner focus, Daniel, maybe let's start with you, uh, you know, what, what's new kind of in the last year. So since we were together, last year, so on the new, on the new things that we have been doing for the last year, it's actually continuing first to move with our hundred percent, uh, since the beginning of, of, of Veem and all the way to the fully do squatters, that's more important even that is definitely the move that we see, uh, with working with your answers, uh, and their partners, as well as working much more with the Saudis providers, meaning the cloud service providers, where are there is a big, big trend now in the market with customers requesting more and more rather than, than I would say, technologies and products on premise. >>Uh, so we see that everywhere around the world. It is actually writing now again with the nutrition that we see, well, why, because of these, Nope, this is about situation, uh, where virtual is a big move that we, uh, we, we can see from customers and the partners that we have, the ecosystem that we've built, um, all around the world, he's helping very much in this move. Excellent. And David would love to hear the, the, the progress that, uh, your group with some of the parts. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's been a, it's been a really exciting ride, uh, year over year growth rates with the alliances, continue to shoot out, which we're really excited about. Um, the VTN launch was fantastic for us for most of our major strategic alliances. So we're really pleased about that. And a lot of our technical alliances as well, they really benefited from some of the new capability coming out there. >>So what we're seeing is not only are we seeing our go to market, be enriched more and have a lot of success with the strategic alliances, the technology Alliance is a really starting to benefit from some of that new innovation that just came out and funny as well. So that global systems integrators, we've seen a massive uptick in that interest in the last, in the last couple of quarters. And that's really helping too Alison tonight. Oh, I spy. So yeah, it's been a really exciting year. And certainly when you do these types of events virtually yeah. LinkedIn, your, I am, and text messages go through the roof, which is a nice way to, to keep communication with the alliances. Yeah, I did. David, I'd like to just drill in a little bit on some of the pieces that you're talking about there, uh, you know, I really feel in the last year, yeah. We saw a real maturation in what we do talk about. Yeah. Hybrid cloud and multicloud. Um, I, I know one of the, you know, key strategic Alliance is actually from day one for Veem. Yeah. And you know, every time I saw an announcement of some of the VMware Bob pieces, I usually felt like there was soon after a Veem piece of it. Uh, could you bring us inside a little bit, especially some of the cloud pieces and maybe how beam differentiate, uh, from, from some of the competition out there, you know, both VMware, >>You know, Amazon, Microsoft and that whole ecosystem. >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, as you touched on, uh, VMware and ops have been very close, Brown is process, and we're really excited about, uh, some of the recent work has been going on with them as well. Um, we're also have tremendous steps fools with Amazon that continues to be a strong area. And the Microsoft is a cloud in the way that we continue during the harms, the way we work with their solution. Um, it's really providing right strides forwards, especially for the enterprise customers. Uh, we also were excited about the recent announcement related to Google cloud as well. So that's another big area for us. Um, and so that was another thing that continues to differentiate us. And what I would say overall though, is it's about having that philosophy as customers continue to have there philosophical view related to on premise cloud on off premise cloud. >>What we're showing is whether it's through the hardware partners, whether it's through the application partners well through the cloud is we're enabling you to decide your workflows. And I think that's the bit it's a little bit different than, and some of the others that are out there taking that heritage, should we put into the virtual world and that mentality, there's certain it departments have. It enables us to really synergize with those different partners as they go through their evolution and a certain customers move more towards the public cloud. And then you might be look towards some workplace back to the private that synergy between all of those areas is hugely important. And even for the hardware partners that we have, do you have cloud plays, mentioning some of their value solutions as well. So it's a really sort of, um, heterogeneous world that it we're really pleased on the way that the market is accepting it. Yeah. And Daniel that this, this move and a maturation of what's happened in the cloud is a significant impact on the channel. I'd love to hear, you know, anything specifically, you know, with your, uh, your viewpoint on the channel as to, you know, how your partners are now adjusting to that, you know, VMware, Microsoft, uh, some of the other pieces is that how they are now ready, uh, to help customers, uh, through these transitions. >>Yeah. And, and let me, let me make one run back, which is very important. First of all, VIM is not Mmm. The cloud provider and will not be accepted, right. Or in other words, the idea is that we will never compete with our brothers, never. Uh, so we provide technology, which is used by our partners and a number of them. I just think that technology to provide services, a number of them are using this technology to resell, uh, or to implement some additional services for the customers. And this is a key, key element. We're not there to do anything and competition. We are here to compliment and to use it, to leverage as much as possible, all our partners, as much as we can, uh, they know very good the market, they know very good at how things are moving. They know very good where they can do they know very good where they cannot do and what their customers want or, or, Oh,. >>Um, so the big, big move that we see in the market is how everyone is moving more and more to, again, there's said initially, uh, to the cloud, um, I mean, providing cloud services, whether it's multicloud hybrid cloud, as you mentioned it, as you listed them, we have all different types of scenarios. And this is a very interesting thing, is us helping them, educating them on how to use our technology, to be able to verify we be provide services and capabilities to their end customers. So we have a big, big investments in this enablement in what we call sales acceleration software, because it's all about businesses, uh, and helping our partners to get there and to move them as fast as placebo. Again, there is a big, a big need, a big request from the end customers and the role of the partners. I understand that and have to move very quickly to this new world of services. >>And we are there to help and support because we strategically no, that this is a way not only for him, but for the entire market. Yeah. And Danielle, you know, an important point. I think anybody that thinks that, okay, editor, uh, you know, to the channel or things, you know, probably doesn't matter. Okay. Or value proposition, a Veeam. What I'm curious from your standpoint is what was the impact of know wire now? You know, obviously some management changes there. Uh, I'm, I'm curious what feedback you've gotten and how that impact, uh, you know, the channel first. Yeah. I mean, let's be open as you know, it's one of, I hope one of our qualities, that theme is the transparency and the way we communicate again with the world, with our, especially with our partners. So initially the feedback that I had and with a number of partners and partners, well, a little bit of, okay, Nope, no worries. >>Uh, no, no. What is going to happen? What is next? Are we going to, to lose the DVM culture? Are we going to, are we going to go through a number of changes eventually in the strategy of him? And actually I have to say, and I'm extremely comfortable, uh, in my, let's say regular communications and connections with, with the insight partners, we have quiet team software because they think that the strategy that we had and the strategy that we have now is the strategy they want just to keep on doing, because it is a successful strategy. And by the way, when we do get the data, uh, that we got from the market from, uh, from, from some, from IDC that that was out lately, we see that Veeam is the number one in both, all around the world, compared to all the other vendors, doing the same kind of technology. >>That means that each is a successful strategy going with the partners and through the partners, he's a very successful strategy. And there is no reason that that yeah, and insight partners understands that extremely good. And I feel very comfortable with it. Yeah. With our future. That would mean more to us, but that's okay. We'll see. In the coming quarters. Well, I, I think, uh, you know, we, we, we do need to have, make sure that VMs has a little bit more focused on getting some green in your home environments there. Um, cause normally if I'm doing an interview with green, I'm expecting with BMI Mexican and a little bit more of the, of the breaker in there, David, you know, obviously, you know, the strategic alliances, uh, you know, some of those executive relationships, good morning, bring us in a little bit, as you know, Daniel was saying there's a little bit yeah. >>Of trepidation at the bit. And they've worked ruin, uh, from the Alliance standpoint, uh, you know, what is this, uh, what what's, what's transpired. Yes, true. It's, it's one of those things. It's a really unexciting answer because they aren't similar, simple answers calmness. Um, I often 24 hours, once we announced it, my call sheet was pretty, pretty empty for the simple reason being that, uh, we've spoken to everybody very quickly and the resonant feedback was that's great news. We know insight. We trust insight. We're glad it is say a growth play. Uh, also it clears up the future. And obviously, yeah, when you have strategic alliances is always in the back of their mind, wondering when is one of our competitors going to come in and Acqua you guys Mmm. Your article feedback was, this is fantastic. This is exactly what we wanted to see. >>Um, you provide clarity to our partnership. You can continue to invest in grow, which you've demonstrated for years, and you can move that forward for the next few years. Um, but also more importantly, this enables us to feel even better doubling down on veins. And so frankly, while we haven't had any issues and I'm sure a lot of the viewers out there have been through events seeing sometimes that can be crazy. It's a Daniel was pointing the strategy. Hasn't changed, we're executing, we've got the support. And the strategic Alliance is probably for the executive level and also the day to day level on leaning in more and more of them please that we're executing on our strategy, focusing in the U S with a big push. Okay. Bringing the investment, moving forward, stabilizing the leadership team. It's just been overall. It's been fantastic. So yeah. >>Yeah. It's, it's a really unexciting new soundbite answer, but that's a, how long has inclarity clarity has been a real takeaway? Excellent. Well, one of the, the key messages in the keynote, of course talking about a digital transformation, we'd love to hear, uh, for, from both of you, uh, you know, what you're seeing and hearing how beam's message is a, you know, engaging with both partners and ultimately the, the end user itself, uh, Daniel, maybe we'll start with you on that. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for asking. It's usually always comes from the end customers and their needs, and we all know that the need for data uh he's he's getting exponential. Uh, so that is why we can't do things manually anymore. So it has to be digitalized everywhere. Yeah. The very interesting thing is that not only something that express with the end customers, but we see more and more because it's an absolute need. Uh, when partners are providing, uh, services or providing all night, chubby she's out services or providing even, even products, they have digitalize also themselves. They are doing it at very, very high speed. But I know I'm mentioning that because I'm extremely pleased with the ecosystems of partners that we have >>Because they understand it's very good, how the market is, is evolving. I'm still only about the customers, but it's also about themselves. Yeah. That they are evolving 21st. And did you digitalization of all the processors? Well, the way they work with their customers, it's definitely one of the key elements, uh, which is going to be extremely good for the future. That's why, because of all this moves in a very positive dynamic way, there is no reasons why we should change our strategies and no remaining said our rights, uh, lions first, whatever it is, uh, continue driving the ecosystem, building the ecosystems, organizing the acquisition. And he's absolutely key for the success of everyone, including people, Brittany and David, please from the Alliance side. Yeah, it's do, I'm sure you'll notice, but in anybody and, uh, we're in a fortunate situation that we probably both get to sit through, uh, all of the strategies that a lot of the Titans of industry are all focused on right now and, and, and having ecosystem we do in your line side, that rich tapestry from the very large to very small is focused on that digital transformation. >>And I think that the good news from my point of view, and I'm going to touch on one of the points Daniel mentioned before was we don't eat with them. And so, yeah, he volunteers, we've got his work hogging, a piece of that, the strategy that they're looking for, the criticality of data three is transformation is huge as everybody knows. Um, and what we're finding right now is that the approach that we take yep. Approach to focus on doing what we do extremely well is synergizing with the evolution of the customer is seeing as they go through that transformation and transformation, sometimes a scary transformation sometimes brings nervousness and they want to do it with a lot of their thought leaders. They working with the VM-ware has the Microsoft, the HBS, and then apps, et cetera. And so from that point of view, the fact that we can providing them with that peace of mind for the complete solution, it's been fantastic. >>So, you know, when you look at a 75 plus partners, there's always going to be one way you need to thread the needle. Shall we say on exactly where intellectual property provides that value to them? But the good news is we don't have to spend a lot of time on that because we're clear, we're concise. Uh, and a lot of times they've been involved in a lot of our strategy sessions. So they're on board with us. And I think the Daniels area as well with the channel, the channel sees that as well. And that's why, whether it's through the alliances channel or with us directly to the resellers, uh, we're finding that, uh, that harmony is bringing a lot of peace of mind. So you can focus on the pains of the customer. I'm not worried about your technology partners fighting with themselves. And that's really where we are, right. Uh, the overall ethic of the company. All right. Well, the final item I have for, for both of you is, you know, normally, you know, but we have a certain understanding of where we are and what the roadmap is. Look, of course, we're dealing with a global pandemic, right? So >>As we look forward to the outlook, uh, I'd love to be able to hear a little bit about, you know, what you're hearing from your partners, how that is coloring, you know, decisions that are made really for the rest of kind of the next 12 months or so. Um, and you know, okay. Any other data points that you have, uh, from your broad perspectives as to how people think the recovery is going to be know, obviously we understand there's a lot of inserts. Nope. Daniel, you've got a, uh, great global viewpoint. We understand, uh, you know, what, what is happening impacts differently locally quite a bit, but, um, what are you seeing going forward and do you know the impact? Bye bye. Yeah. So I couldn't say the contrary. Yeah. So they correct. And we see it in our numbers that the countries, which are the most impacted, I would buy the QVC. >>I would have been more difficulties than the others, uh, to move, to move forward for a business standpoint, uh, which everybody understands, but we've received in the numbers. No, the thing. And this is what I liked very much about, but our ecosystem and where is we had a plan, uh, that we said that we said in 2019 before we knew anything about curvy a con for 2020, and you know what, uh, we are now in no, in, in, in our, the second part of the month of the year, you too, and are going to make our numbers. We are going to make our plans and why are we going to make it? That's the only because, you know, it's just been because perfect, but he's very, very much because of all our partners who, despite all the issues that are, they are in country because of coverage are just getting there, biking, helping themselves, helping us, and altogether as, as a big business machine, as big business system, we all just making success. >>And this will only show extremely good at the end of the year. When we look at the market share, Jamie's going to gain again, uh, with all our butters, it will be the, the results of the success. So good results. Very good results. No. And, and do you mean just continuing to move with these, he's a network of fathers and David, obviously we've seen, you know, you know, many of the big partners, you know, uh, you know, very circumstance and their response, you know, nobody wants, are you seen as, uh, you know, doing something that is untoward towards customers taking care of business. Okay. So, you know, how how's this impacting, you know, what you're doing with your partners? And it gives a little bit of the outlook going forward. Yeah. I mean, why not use for this as energy? Mmm. Some of these headlines that you see, of course, they're not going to get picked up with the impact related to it on a day to day basis, through the discussions with the executives are in the field level, we're seeing the energy with same people want to make sure on what is a tricky situation was a very impactful situation. >>Um, but what, we're not seeing people Mmm. He was onto it. We're seeing people really want to, um, make sure that they are also relating to the needs of their customers today, whether it's more and point whether it's moving towards the user experience, but also taking this time to keep building the foundation for a lot of that infrastructure related to data protection, data availability, um, that we've enjoyed for a long period of time. So yeah, you know, you, you have a degree of disruption, but the objective that I'm seeing from all the major guys that are out there is let's make sure we drive hard. Let's not take the pedal off the metal. Let's not use this as an excuse. Let's keep moving. What, uh, I mean, I sh I would say our engagement with them has increased in sort of happened. Um, and so I don't think we ever expected to be running into tempo. >>We're running bean does it as standard, but we don't normally I have that same temperature. Okay. From some of the, uh, some of the alliances we're really pushing hard with him. So, yeah, we're excited. And we continue to evolve rudeness how, in a situation, everyone's going to be employees with a lot of aggression, a lot of desire to keep capitalizing on the work we've done together. The key solving the customer demands that are going to come over the next 18 to 24 months, um, and reading, make sure that, uh, this is really okay. Yeah. It's impactful just to be clear, but, but not one that we're going to let define our future. I'm looking into that together. So I think from us, um, we're excited about not only as Daniel said, beam success. Well, what, we're starting to see us really good attitudes, uh, from all of our lines bombs, which we love. Yeah. All right. Well, Daniel and David, thank you so much for the update. Great. Yep. Okay. Thank you. Thanks. All right. Lots more covered from Veeam on 2020 online. I'm assuming a minute. Thank you. Oh, wow. The cube.

>>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of Veem on 2020 brought to you by beam >>Hybrid. This is Dave alotta and you're watching the cube tenuous coverage of on 20 it's the Veem online version. One of them course, we've had a pivot, the virtual, the large industry here. He's the CEO of IEM and Jim Kruger is the please marketing officer guys. I wish we were face to face. Okay. You know, this'll do so. Thanks for coming on. Yeah. Thanks. Thank you, Dave. Yeah. Thank you Dave. Glad to be here. Well, first of all, bill, I got to congratulate you it the first time. Really? We awesome. The okay. Blockbuster. So acquisition inside capital growth minded, awesome. Private equity. So congratulations on the new role and you know, best of luck. Hey, well, thanks. Very much greatly appreciated. Yeah. I've been with the team since founding in 2006. So it's a, well, it's a new role. It's, it's a good old, it's a good older team that we're very experienced with it. >>Uh, did you, you, you, you know, the, the good, the bad and the ugly and you know, where the skeletons are buried, you know where to go, okay. The ship. So we wish you the best. And then, you know, in the gym, I gotta ask you, I mean, everybody says, okay, it was really hard decision go to it. The virtual, he actually had no choice, but maybe the harder decision was, can we postpone or do we go forward? You guys chose to go forward. Uh, which I think is the right call. And I'd also think, it seems like you're taking the approach of, you know, we're not just going to try to plug the physical into the virtual. We're going to, I think about the halo effect. Yes. Discussion going, but maybe your thoughts on that pivot. Good. The virtual. Yeah. Yeah. It didn't take us too long to decide. >>And we, we felt, uh, rather than postponing it and, and trying to do a, a large event before the end of the year, which not really, really realistic. Uh, we decided to, uh, to go with the virtual and actually for just a month after, for the most part after, uh, um, what the real event was supposed to happen in Las Vegas. And, uh, yeah, we're really looking at it from, okay. Yeah. Keeping the discussion, going with our customers, keeping them updated. We're going to be highlighting some of the new releases that are going to be coming out, making some key announcements. Right. And it actually gives us an opportunity to draw in more of the crowd from around the entire globe. I think we have 148 different, uh, countries that are represented. Uh, so, um, Oh yeah, it's right. It's a, uh, I think a new platform and, uh, I think it's working very well so far. >>So bill, I, you know, you came into this, this role and immediately, okay. You have dealt with it pandemic I want to talk a little bit about, you know, how you're dealing with that. Um, and we'll get into maybe what you're seeing in your business, you know, the, in, in a way there's a silver lining here. Okay. Okay. It really kind of forces change. You said in your keynote, constant. Uh, but you know, you might have, you know, the business obviously very well and you might've had some gut feels as to where you want it, take it, but change is hard. Boy, everybody has. Okay. Now, so in a way that's sort of a, an accelerant change, your thoughts, what was your first move? Hello, coming into this pandemic. Yeah. Coming into the pandemic. It was one of making sure we understood. Well, what the issues were, getting people home and, and safe working environments. >>So big move was, was that some of our team had a desktop, so they did not have laptops. It made it a little more cumbersome multi-screen so it's really physical activity will move these people. So we moved our whole team, 4,300, about 1300 or so of those people were already, uh, our employees were already working out of their house. Uh, so the big move was let's get them home. Let's make sure they're efficient, good connectivity. And, uh, and with that, we were off and running. I don't believe we missed, uh, much of a beat at all. Considering we started this mid March, we were finishing our a first quarter, which came out right about on plan, which we were really excited about. Okay. It was a, that was the first move I would say. We make a few more to go, okay. The big first move I want to get. >>So I'm going to share some data with you guys. If you bring up the first slide, this is data from our data partner quarter, we go out and we talk customers. And this is a survey of over 1200 of practitioners, buyers, and they're about 120 or so Veeam was in there. And what I'm showing here is data though, the gray bar is data from a year ago, April 19 in survey, the blue bar is January, 2020. And the yellow bar is the April 19, uh, April 20 survey. It was taken right at the height of the lockdown. And, and what this is showing is yep. Customers that are spending more by the percentage of those customers that are doing business with them, the theme, and you can see it, the gray was 50%. It dropped slightly to January nods back up within the height of the lockdown. >>And so what you saw is that new adoptions and people spending more, I E more than 6% is actually, Oh, since, uh, the, the pandemic. Yeah. do you have a w or a bill rather? I'd like to start with you. I wonder if this is what you're seeing, kind of in your businesses, a little bit of an uptick, not all businesses, obviously we're seeing that the, it seems like yours is yeah. Our April was, uh, wow. Mmm. Just amazingly. So, and I think it allowed us to get transition out of the way at the end of March. Well, also closing the quarter, but yeah, we had a, um, we had a double digit gain in it. Hold on. It was extremely a nice way to start that the first month is second quarter. So that's exactly what we're seeing very positive and, you know, Mmm. >>I think that if we talk about Jim, some of the data that you showed in your keynote, you talked about some of the challenges that your, your data showed you guys. Yeah. This new survey. And we'll, we'll talk about that. The data protection. Okay. What stood out was cyber threats. The number one challenge came up and, and I often say that the lines, Queens security, cyber cyberspace, security, and data. Okay, good. And backup and recovery are really starting to blur you guys, aren't known as a cyber company, but increasingly people are thinking about data protection and backup recovery as part of their overall cyber strategy. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And, and I think, um, you know, from, from our most recent release version 10, we built in some new capabilities around a ransomware protection and cybersecurity. So yeah, I would say those lines are blurring, but we're definitely not a security company. >>Uh, although as you mentioned, a backup definitely provides us security and customers want to be able to do yeah. Prior to putting things into production. And that's some of the, some of the new capabilities that we've provided our latest version. Well, I mean, and, and cyber obviously is, is expensive to become a board level topic as you well know, it has been here's the later on we're interviewing Gill Vega, who's your, your newly minted CSO. And you're, you're seeing that, that role, you know, expand, it's not just sort of off on the corner. Okay. It's its problem. Or it's this, the security sec ops teams problem. It really is. Yeah. Is it tongue in cheek is it's a team sport, but yeah. You really have to take a broader view of okay. Of cyber don't you and especially bill given something that you shared in your, a keynote talk, you shared some IDC data, you know, a five X increase in zettabytes over a seven year period. >>I think 33 and 2018 up to one 75, 25 and uptake in bets that IDC is probably low and that number. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Probably low. Well, that's what we're saying. You know, you brought up a good point. It's a evolution into a much larger entity in protecting, I think, many more customers, well, over 375,000 customers, and that's bringing a vague on, or a CSO and a major step for us focus on external and internal. Okay. The threats that exist out there. So a major activity for us and bringing, 'em bringing Gil on. So you're right. Our gross, we think that's where it goes for growth continues to evolve. Uh, we have our customers, um, and what we're trying to make sure we do is we protect. Yeah. Talk about security. That's a little bit, little bit of that protect. Awesome. And then make sure they have access to their data and same with our employee count. >>What are we trying to do? Yeah. COVID-19 is that, we're trying to make sure we can your employees as well as make them yeah. Yup. In this whole process. Yeah. The cyber threats playing into the security. Well, bill staying on, on, on the, COVID a discussion for a minute, you talked in your, you know, what about, there were three things. Okay. the resource management security and governance and, and digital transformation all very relevant in the context of this. Yeah. My question is, can you add some color as to beam's role in those areas? Yeah. Well, clearly in the governance each have, that's built in our product. There's an orchestration on all the products, the offerings that we have, I think, right. Our primary concern, those does go back to go back protecting data and making it accessible. So, I mean, I think that's where it's most common place for us to see our focus has been, has been not security as Jim said, we're not a security. >>Yep. It's really availability data availability and its data availability. Wow. Okay. Uh, back to the hybrid class loud conversation that we, uh, we talked about is that, is that we want to be yeah. Yep. That make data available over hydro hybrid cloud. I think with the COVID-19 it's showing that the cloud base activities are going to be more critical. Cool. Uh, versus, um, in addition to right. Okay. Okay. So an answer that one. So Jim, I want to ask you about something you talked about in the keynote, which is the data protection report. I referenced it earlier. Tell us a little bit more about this, the study you guys. Yeah. You guys are like, I am, you love data. Okay. W what was that study all about and what were some of the key takeaways? Yeah. So just, just a few months back. So it's a fresh off the presses. >>Uh, we, um, I surveyed about 1500, uh, uh, it pros across the world and one to just get a good feel for where their head is, uh, what are some of the key concerns they have? Uh, and so we kind of bucket it into three, three key areas. Uh, one was around downtime threats. Uh, what you talked about, the, the security, uh, in ransomware threats is definitely top of mind, uh, for customers. Uh, we also, um, drill down a little bit into the move to the cloud and then also digital transformation. Uh, and what's clear is that, you know, I think in the past, you know, people thought that, um, you know, their most important data was the only data that needed active. And we're seeing, uh, some compression there relative to, uh, you know, customers thinking they need to do okay. It basically yeah. >>Protect all data. Uh, so, um, the, the difference between sort are the critical data and just normal data is really blending together. Uh, and so they're looking to, to drive efficiencies from that perspective. Uh, and, uh, and I think about 49% of the customers are backing up the cloud today. Uh, so a pretty good number. Uh, but that jumps to, I think, around 76. Yeah. Right. In two years, uh, of customers who believe that they'll be using the cloud as a, um, for backup and then on the digital transformation side of things. No, I don't think there's a company out there who doesn't have some sort of digital transformation initiative. Uh, but they are struggling a little bit, they're struggling, uh, with, um, uh, with, uh, the resources that they have that they have, and, and, uh, those resources being competent to, to really take the company's in a new direction because of a lot of those resources are focused on existing projects and keeping the business up and running. >>Uh, so that's a key area that we're, that they're looking to like free up resources, it's focused on digital transformation. And then we get into some of the benefits that they're seeing from that, uh, and so forth. So, yeah, it's a good all around report to really understand the state of the market. I want to stay on the survey for a minute if I can, and then have that bill tied into the property strategy. Mmm. W w one of the other things, the things that stood out was one of the, the blockers you will, uh, the customer sided, they said lack of skills. So, you know, right. A legacy it, or maybe that's technical debt yeah. As well, uh, and then budget constraints. And so, I mean, yeah. Kind, those are good blockers for you guys. You, you, you simplify, you know, the old yeah. Yes. Works. Mmm. You know, you've been amazing that maintaining relevance or whatever, 10 plus year old company. Yeah. You're right there with all the upstarts and the big portfolio companies. And then of course, budget constraints. I was talking to Anton earlier really focused on the economics. Okay. Protecting data, but maybe you could add some color. So those sorts of sure. Customers referenced. Okay. Because there challenges to moving forward. >>Yeah. Yeah. So, um, you mentioned one big one, which is skills. Uh, so I think, uh, training and education, it is definitely, certainly one of them. Uh, I think from, from beam's perspective, we, we definitely help in all of those areas because, uh, our, our solution is easy to use, uh, easy to manage, easy to deploy. Uh, and so when you look at the resources, Harrison does some of the legacy solutions that our customers have. They're typically able to save a significant amount on the budget side, insignificant amounts on the resources. They just don't simply don't need as many people, uh, to, uh, to operate a beam backup solution. So they can redeploy some of those resources into other areas, uh, which, uh, which has been definitely an attraction to them. You mentioned the IDC data and that bill talked about, but that's one of the reasons if you look back in the second half of 2019, we actually grew three times as fast as the market average. >>Uh, I think mainly because of that, and a lot of people are switching from their legacy over to, uh, to Vien because, because of those reasons. Yeah. So, well, bill, I want to tie that into it. The company's strategy you guys have been okay. I'm unapologetic about the core of which is backup. That was kind of, you know, obviously recovery is part of that. Okay. But, you know, there's a lot of discussion about data management trying to sort of, you know, expand the notion of the Tam and you guys obviously dissipate as well. Well, it's sort of three things yeah. Manage and transform. Well, some of the things that you guys talked about in, you know, but the core is protected. You're all about backup recovery, data protection. Okay. You know, the examples of that at GNC, for example, and some of the others do, you know, uh, discussions were all about protecting some of that for data, but then you get into management is that's sort of Tam expansion, if you will. >>And then the transform, you know, I think we, we, I think we get the, the protector pretty well. It's the managing transform that sometimes there's a little bit, yeah, horrible. Hey, the people, but I wonder if you could sort of add some, some texture to that. Yeah. Well, we've always had a very, yeah. Our focus has been on the protect side and the managed, transform is key pieces that we've added on, uh, over the time period. So playing that bigger Tamar, bigger markets. Yeah. A cloud data management market, it's his 30 plus billion dollar marketplace. So I think you'll see. Um, and that's where, we've where we've expanded. It was three 60. Bye. Alright. Protect category. So it is one of 'em moving on up into that, but we will stay. Huh? Okay. Yeah. Core piece of our business tech side, it's extremely important to us. >>We stay focused, it's allowed our development team just stay focused and bring forth Hmm. We believe peer to any of our competitors and, uh, yeah. Okay. Continue to move that way. So bill, I mean, Veem has always been known for punching above its wait glass. I mean, the, you know, the, the very clever naming of the company are you pronounced parties, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But now they a top dog now. So, uh, maybe the strategy is to continue to punch above the weight class. Yeah. Which would be a great thing. Although you're now a mainstream, you mean 375,000 customers. You're adding in a very, very rapidly pace. You're a big dog now. W what can we expect going forward from being well? Well, you know, a big piece of our change was our universal licensing. So we want to make sure, yeah. >>Those licensed portable, take them with you, be able to use them in a different way, uh, in different settings. So I think we'll work on, uh, always punching above our weight that was really started with our founders. Uh and Andre Bernoff. We, uh, clearly we're number one. People might not have believed that in the beginning, but yeah. We rate to it. So I think you'll see us with more products. Yeah. Innovation in that space. And, um, uh, and, and working very aggressively, too, take command to the multicloud environment. Well, you know, your business practices have always been pretty meeting edge and forward thinking. You mentioned the flexibility and from licensing, you know, that's something that, you know, you're, you're known for even partners when I talk to your partners. They, so yeah. You know, Veeam has made it very simple for us new business. I'm not sure worrying about, so much about who gets to paid, where they've sort of made that transparency. >>You get very high marks for that. And so there's a, yeah. You're known for your tech, you're known for that products. Yeah. But there's also some innovation on the, on the business model side as well. Isn't there. Yep. Absolutely. Our partners, the significant number of partners from what's this a long time. Uh, we do like to make sure that everybody in that the distribution channel and we are two tier distribution. Mmm profitability. Yeah. Keeping it simple, becomes more challenging. I think the larger you get yeah. Uh, very hard making it simple. And it takes some time, a little bit of, um, iteration for us. One of our core values, innovate, iterate to make it simple, to keep it that way. We want our partners to be, be comfortable working with us and making good economics and knowing that we're going to bring, we're going to bring that roadmap products, uh, and to them when we get our products ready and they are the products in the market place, that situation in the lab. >>Yep. We're going to work the first time we're going to work well for me. Sure. Well, Jim, I wanted to ask you about some of the customers that you referenced. Okay. I mentioned G GNC, you guys showed a video of that. That was pretty cool. Okay. It was interesting hero motor Corp. Oh. They don't call themselves a motorcycle company, but that's essentially what they are. And then, and then IBM cloud was really interesting to see them in there partner. There, there are customer, I guess. Hm, yup. Editor or one side of the house. So that was kind of an interesting example. Some of the customer takeaways I can share. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, when you look at GNC, uh, you know, some of the things that they referenced was, uh, you know, a, a six figure ROI over, over a three year period. Uh, and again, that was one of the key drivers as to why they went, went with him again, just more efficient. >>Um, and, uh, yeah, Hiro, motor Corp, very interesting. They're the world's largest a manufacturer of two wheel to wheel vehicles and they do produce the, and motorcycle every two seconds. Oh. And they produced over 90 million. So yeah, they're a large organization. I think they have closed. Okay. 10,000 employees, uh, and, um, VJ set the, who is, who is their CIO among other things that their company, um, yeah. Yay. Yeah. As, as you heard, he talks a lot about, uh, how they're managing through COVID-19 and he really is a big believer that number one, you got to take care of your people and make sure that they're safe and make sure that they're set up so that they can work from home and so forth. Uh, but then also really planning for not just managing through the crisis, but also recovery, uh, which, uh, which is really important. >>That was some of the advice that huh, that he gave of course, to a, to the attendees of been, which I think is really good advice. And then IBM cloud has been, yeah, been a great partner, uh, and the customer for, for quite some time, we're working very closely with them backup as a service they're leveraging kind of the full suite of products and getting great traction. And as, as we saw from some of the data, the backup as a service is going to continue to grow. Yeah. That'd be a great opportunity for both IBM and being more contained. Well, it's guys exciting time for you. I mean like many people, I, I bumped into Veeam at a V mug. Ooh, wow. That was, you know, years and years and years ago. And to watch your ascendancy, it has been a pretty astounding products, a very well run company, a good vision, uh, just awesome customer. >>So, so bill, you know, you're on deck, when we get to 2030. Yeah. What do you want this to look like? Uh, well, multi multibillion by 2030, that's a long way out. It'll be interesting in the transformation that is made and we'll see what happens really globally with, um, the whole work from home, how moves, how office space plays into it, product innovation and delivery. We think we're at the forefront back. It started in the virtualization space back in Oh six and, uh, for some really creative projects products, I think we'll continue to S it's extended to see that what's 2030 bring yeah. Multi-billion and we're going to continue to add employees throughout the world. We've got over 4,300 employees, right. You mentioned keynote, uh, that are in them, you know, a multitude of countries. And, uh, it's just an absolute, I'm thrilled to be part of M and M and, uh, help us work as a, uh, a family organization products. Well, we really had a great deal of okay. Following Veem and participating in the beam on, and I really appreciate you guys having us here at the, uh, the, the digital event, but thanks guys for coming on. Yeah. And sharing your insights. Great. Yeah. Thanks very much. Thanks. Thank you for watching the cubes. Continuous coverage of Veem on 2020, the virtual digital version. Keep it right there, right back. Great. The short break.

from the silicon angle media office in Boston Massachusetts it's the queue now here's your host David on tape hi everybody welcome to this breaking analysis in this cube insights powered by ETR I'm Dave Volante and this episode is about data protection you might be saying Dave why are you gonna bore us with the conversation about backup well it's interesting the market is actually quite hot you know over the last 18 to 24 months there's been well over a billion dollars probably 1.3 1.4 billion dollars raised just from companies like rubric Kohi City Dhruva certo and a number of other startups like clew mio is a name you might not have heard of and I'm gonna mention a couple of others so you have the situation where these upstarts particularly rubric and cohesive er really challenging the install based players and they're spending a lot of money on marketing engineering and sales and they're going to market and they're really shaking things up and I want to talk about that dynamic share with you some ETR data and talk about some of the other players like veem who was you know a rocket ship because of the virtualization trend how are they faring in this kind of new market and why is this market gaining so much attention today and what does this mean for incumbents what does it mean for customers who can achieve escape velocity and what are some of the likely outcomes that we see the market is very confused right now if you look at the Gartner Magic Quadrant the and compare that to for instance the Forrester wave del EMC is not even in the Forrester wave the Gartner Magic Quadrant has rubric you know not as a leader and and it's just all over the place and so what I want to do is use some ETR data and some context from the cube to share with you our audience what we are seeing in the marketplace and kind of what it all means so let's get into it Alex if you bring up the first slide I first want to make a statement about the overall storage market the the ETR data set which is incredible doesn't drill down into backup although it does have pure play backup vendors in the data set so I want to start with storage because it's a it's the superset of the data protection market so what this chart shows is the all the sectors and it shows the net scores remember net score is they they ask every every quarter are you spending more you're spending less so he's spending the same they subtract the less from the more and that gives you net score so this is the net score for the three periods of October 18 survey July 19 survey in the October 19 survey and you can see the red line shows you know storage is kind of on the back burner yeah it's up ticking a little bit from previous surveys but it's got a next score of 18 that's crappy I mean it's not really a hot market and I've talked in previous episodes and breaking analysis as to why I really two main factors that I cited cloud guys eating away at the traditional storage array business and flash injected so much capacity and performance into the equation that data center managers are saying hey I don't really need any more storage right now so storage is kind of on the back burner you can see I blew it up here and you can see sort of how it's playing you see the hot sectors are analytics cloud computing container platforms data warehousing is is making a comeback I've talked about snowflake on previous breaking analyses machine learning and AI and new workloads robotic process automation even virtualization these are the hot sectors that are that are driving spending but I will tell you storage ultimately is going to be there it won't be down forever because people are always going to need storage these new workloads are gonna require new storage and obviously backup if you go to the next slide Alex you can see some of the vendors here so we've sort of established ok storage is is right now it's down it's not one of the hottest sectors but you can see there's some companies in here that are pretty hot rubric leads the list with a net score of 53 percent now the shared end might be a little hard for you to read here but the shared end out of the last survey 1,300 respondents from the ETR survey answered what there's you know spending intentions were and then the individuals mentioning specific companies in this case rubric 55 so it's kind of a small shared in you can see pure storage a company that we've talked about previously you know continues to to show strength you know 48.1% down slightly from you know the previous quarters but still really the only clear share gainer in the overall a primary storage market again rubric you can see Nutanix is up on the list veeam is actually quite impressive I'm going to show you some data in a minute that I think will impress you in terms of Eames continued staying power you see vcn on there sis goes on the list God knows why sis goes on the list their storage is not you know perceived as as leading but they do have offerings and Cisco so big people just kind of yeah we're buying from Cisco you see cookie City their little dip this past survey but still very strong again I'll show you some other data there you know etc so you can see that the point is even though storage is down there are a couple of shining stars like rubric like Nutanix pure storage veem Kohi City etc so let's let's dig into that a little bit before I do that I just want to share with you some trends on this slide with regard to the the backup market you know i underscore backup because it's no longer just the backup market its evolving so there's pressure on the overall storage market but but the data protection is actually really hot right now it's it's it's captured a lot of venture capital startups are moving in I'll mention a few that you might not have heard of why well several reasons one is the data explosion continues it's it's it's growing at an exponential rate and it's kind of nonlinear digital transformations are all about how you leverage data and so if you're making your business a data business in a digital business well you better have a way to protect it so things like ransomware are coming into play and people are really concerned obviously about ransomware so so data protection of evolves and expands sort of transcends back up into business continuity cloud and hybrid cloud are some other trends that I'll talk about in more detail that are driving opportunities for what we're traditionally known as backup and really now evolving into sort of these new areas last decade it was about moving from from tape to disc you know tape sucks that was kind of the data domain mantra and they were the hot company of last decade they got you know they did an IPO they reached escape velocity they sold for 2.5 billion you know but today you know the data domain platform that EMC bought and and now is Dell EMC is kind of old school right it's these new guys that are coming after that so so well well data domain pioneer data deduplication and higher performance back up moving to storage today it's a whole new conversation and people have come to the realization that the primary and active storage is only about 20% of the stored data all the all the less hot data I don't want to say inactive stuff it's not cold storage but it's files and objects and copies and replicas and and backups that's 80% of the marketplace today it's in terms of the volume of data not necessarily the spend you know OLTP stuff primary storage is expensive flash arrays expensive but huge opportunity especially in terms of data growth that's where all the data growth is happening all that unstructured data so today the conversation is evolving to data protection data management data assurance particularly with containers so you think about spinning up containers spinning down containers you know dozens hundreds thousands of containers how do you keep track of that stuff how do you protect that how do you assure that your data is not leaking that you're not exposed and so that's a really hot area that you're seeing a number of startups focus on so real focus on recovery becomes much more important for a digital business how fast can I recover security compliance this notion of data sharing CDM on this slide which is stands for copy data management a practice that was really popularized by actifi Oh DevOps really supporting DevOps through a data management platform being able to give live copies or near live copies of data so that you know tests can be tested on you know much more fresh data in that in compressing that cycle time analytics becomes more important I talked about ransomware before well you can look at the the backup corpus and do analytics on that to see if there are anomalies in anomalous behavior just in terms of bad actors coming in so all this stuff joined with cloud and hybrid cloud and is put a bridging the legacy business and it's bringing out a lot of new challengers to the incumbents so let's take a look at some of that data from ETR Alex if you go to the next slide this is the ETR data set on backup vendors so what I've done here is it is pulled out of storage the pure-play data protection folks so I can you know call in backup vendors they hate when they call them backup know we're much more than backup it's where data management now data management means a lot of things to a lot of people but but nonetheless they are expanding and transcending pure backup so so credit to them this is the net score timeline from January 2017 to the latest October survey from enterprise technology research and you can see here I've pulled our rubric cohesively veem CommVault and Veritas and rubric leads as they say with 53% net score followed by Veen 44% so you can see Veeam really hanging tough though he said he just relat relat of lis new to the survey jumped up jumped down a little bit in in this quarter you'll see that you'll see that in the et our data anyone get too freaked out about it I think he said he still got some some tailwind and cementum momentum as does rubric but look at Veen Dean's ascendancy came from really VMware they were the VMware specialists and they were all virtualized and now you know they do bare metal they're doing cloud and multi cloud and and and they backup you know office 365 and and and so that's the SAS platform but look at how well they've held up quite impressive there with Veen made have made a major push into the enterprise kind of pivoted back to SMB but still does a lot of business in the enterprise and you can see them showing up here what's relevant to me is that the the shared end in other words out of the 1,300 and the total survey how many are responding to these vendors rubric 55 relatively small veeam 155 much larger so a bigger install base cohesive 42 kind of just getting started in the ETA dataset CommVault 105 so carve-outs a 700 million dollar company and revenues on a trailing 12-month basis they get about a 2.2 billion dollar market cap they just bought hedvig they're moving toward a SAS model they launched a product called metallic they get a very very large install base you can see their net scores yeah we're there holding relatively well they're smaller obviously they're lower than those top three and then you can see Veritas Veritas is the big whale in the business they kind of mostly almost a pure play software company they do have an appliance but they really are the the leader a leader here and have had a big market they went private they got bought by semantics semantics didn't know what to do with them they fumbled around with it they did a private equity deal you know that was going okay but they had some management turnover a private equity you know squeeze them a little bit even though they made some investments in the platform and so Veritas has you know some challenges they have to serve the install base but at the same time they got to compete with the new guys and all the new guys cohesively and rubric in particular are attacking you know the veritas install base you know certainly CommVault and as well Dell and EMC you can't have a discussion really around leadership and backup and data protection without talking about Delhi and C they're so large so Alex if you go to the next slide you can see the net score for Dell EMC the N here is 348 much much larger than some of the other guys that I just mentioned I'm actually look at Veritas 97 even though I have a large install base so Dell EMC but here's the caveat this is all of Delhi MC storage so not just the pure play back up the previous slide I was showing you pure play data protection vendors this is all of Dell EMC so it includes all their primary stuff all their flash storage all their storage not the other parts of their business not the compute and analytics and other stuff just storage so I'm using this as a proxy okay so this is not Dells data protection business only and so what let me make some comments there and I'll comment on Dell data protection business you can see it came out of the downturn on the past 2009 big optic and Joe toots used to say we're gonna come out stronger we're gonna invest through the downturn we got the cash we're gonna come out stronger that's exactly what happened they came out very strong but then you know cash flow started to get squeezed they expanded their product portfolio it was like product du jour all these mega launches and it just got too confusing for customers Salesforce got confused they got less productive and any an Adele or EMC at the time was really relying on VMware it's the value in Dell and I'm sorry I keep saying Dell value in EMC at the time was really in VMware and you could see that kind of steady decline in the net score and that's what happened to Elliott management came in they squeezed EMC kind of forced him forced her hand and then Dell ended up taking in private let me make some comments about the Dell acquisition and specifically Dell emcs data protection business Dell MC took its eye off the ball in storage generally but specifically in the data protection business it fell behind it wasn't investing fast enough it had some management changes that put Beth Phelan in charge a couple years ago now and her task was okay sure she was tasked with shoring up this business so but they had to get some new products out they had to focus on you know some of the the lower end of the market and then have to refocus on the higher end of the market so they've really begun to get their act together again in in data protection and really refreshing the data domain piece of the portfolio bringing Alomar and data domain to get and becoming much more competitive having said that they lost some ground okay so they've got that same challenge challenges Veritas they've not only got the new guys coming at them with this modern you know data platform they've got to service the existing install basin it's going to manage that cash flow they're now a public company again so a lot of pressure on those guys I want to go back to the to the previous chart Alex if you will and then is the one that shows you know rubric cohesive veem CommVault and and Veritas the the pure plays there's some other dynamics that I want to talk to talk about here HPE exited the software business it's it's its course offer a business it's sold off the Micro Focus and as part of that it's sold off data protector when it did that it opened up a whole new partnership opportunity for these emerging companies particular cohesive and veeam are actually reselling through HPE HP he's got a massive channel and those two companies are doing very well there I said you can't talk about data protection without talking about Dell EMC same thing for IBM you got to talk about IBM IBM is a huge install base and IBM free but Tivoli years ago Frank Moss's company and then they served mainframes and it was this big complicated platform kind of still is and so IBM had to make a move so it it it was getting killed in the marketplace by Veeam in particular so it created spectrum protect Plus and an IBM is really gone after software-defined it's it's it's it's begun to modernize its platform going after containers as I mentioned is a hot area but it's still got that same problem it's got to service the install base and so they're sort of doing that balancing act but it definitely had to you know refresh the portfolio and it's done a good job there with spectrum protect plus a couple of the companies that I haven't mentioned Dhruva is getting into that whole data management space so cohesively and rubric kind of redefining back up into data management theme goes back to the basics really talks about backup in data protection data management as being the future so it's kind of Dee trying to deep position rubric and cohesive as as you know much more in the future and not here today and so they're sort of playing that marketing game and very effectively as you can see by its net scores again Dhruva hopping on the the data management day bandwagon certo kind of a dr replication expert Klum you know is calling BS and all these guys is saying we're going pure sass model and and Klum you know does a sass for pure sass pure software for just AWS small company but it's raised a bunch of dough it's raised about 50 million dollars I think but here's some other names you might not have heard of caste ni o Valero trillion ease guys are going hard after containers and what I referred to earlier as data assurance so the big question is who's going to be able to achieve escape velocity for the for the upstarts who's going to be able to hold serve for the the incumbents let me make a couple of comments on that I think storage eventually is going to bounce back as I say some of those hot emerging workload areas like AI they they're gonna need storage you know analytics is gonna be driving you know the need for these types of things security data surance data protection service storage will theirs don't bet against the data so storage will I think eventually you know bounce back and unlike compute where Intel makes all the margin storage is more like networking where you get really good margins it's a you know 60 Plus percent gross margin business pure storage has almost 70 percent gross margins cloud is the wild card here I predict you're gonna see the cloud vendors begin to dramatically expand you know their their portfolios and you know use beyond just gonna s3 simple object storage okay yeah we got elastic you know a block store EBS from Amazon you know Microsoft has you know the you know similar store just as Google they are gonna double down on storage they're gonna they're gonna look at storage as a bigger opportunity and that is a wild card it could you know continue to pressure the traditional storage guys but look let's face it it's a hybrid world still ton of stuff going on Prem so I think that that the the overall market will bounce back I think data protection as a subset and data management is going to grow faster it has some tailwind I think it's got an expanding Tam and those tail winds are digital data digital business security data assurance this new management capability that I talked about DevOps and contain a protection container platforms as I showed you earlier and the ETR data is one of the hottest areas going and I think you're gonna see some consolidation you saw CommVault bought Hedvig you're gonna see some exits veeam is now talking about doing an IPO it just took in a half a billion dollars in investment so its investors are gonna want an exit so are cohesive ease and rubrics which together have raised almost a billion dollars so you're gonna see some some M&A I think specialists like zero and and Dhruva are probably gonna be B targets I think you're still gonna see Dell become much much more aggressive kind of getting their act together the big incumbents IBM you know Veritas refreshing their portfolio again their challenge is the innovators dilemma so I do think you're gonna see some at least one maybe two the the favorites there would be cohesive near rubric is achieve escape velocity I don't think there's enough room for three to be like blockbuster IPOs that that that can survive long term but I think this data management thing has legs and we're gonna continue to watch it here thanks to you for watching thanks to our friends at ETR for sharing this data is Dave Volante for cube insights powered by ETR we'll see you next time

>>Live from Copenhagen, Denmark. It's the covering Nutanix dot. Next 2019 you by Nutanix. Hello everybody and welcome back to the cubes live coverage of Nutanix dot. Next here in Copenhagen, Denmark. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, co-hosting alongside Stu Miniman. We're joined by Ken ring doll. He is the vice president global Alliance architecture at V. thank you so much for coming on the cube. It is your sixth time on the cube. So you are an illustrious I know. And then a ring and then a ring for is 10. We've got some sticks. Yeah, here you go. So you're here to talk about the partnership with Nutanix and, and uh, and, and mine. So why don't you tell us a little bit about this partnership and the mine ecosystem and, and how would what you see for the future? >>Yeah, absolutely. So a, you know, Nutanix is a really strategic partner for us. Uh, you know, I'd say we've been partners for quite awhile, probably five, six years. But I would say the, the real sort of tipping point for our partnership was when we committed to go integrate with HV. You know, we had supported vSphere from the beginning. That's, that's what VM was founded on. That's where the foundation of our success, we went and did hyper V and 2011 and we didn't do another hypervisor. We still haven't even done KVM yet, but we saw the value in the Nutanix partnership and we committed to doing HV and delivered that, you know, middle of last year. And we've seen, you know, good pickup on that. But that was really the tipping point when we sort of came in and sort of wrapped our arms around the Nutanix ecosystem. And really, you know, if you want to embrace Nutanix, you're in praise HV cause that's the core, right? That's, that's where they're going. That's their differentiation. Um, and so that was, that was sort of the tipping point. And of course, you know, we can certainly get into mine and everything else we're doing. >>That was, well Ken, first of all, it definitely was, you know, very much noticed in the industry. Uh, you know, Veeam, I remember back when hyper V support was announced and kind of a ripple went through the virtualization, uh, industry on that and Veem stepping forward and supporting HV was a, a real, uh, you know, speaking to not only the partnership but to the maturity of where Nutanix sits out there. Um, we know that the data protection space is quite hot and a question people have had from day one was, well, we'll Nutanix address that directly themselves. Uh, they had Veem rubrics here, you know, other partners are here. So it's how they are addressing that space and mine, uh, that, that is pretty interesting in different from, uh, you know, much of what we see out there. So, uh, bring us inside mine and you know, uh, Nutanix, it wants optionality to be there. So Veem is one of the partners, but also the, you know, uh, likely the most important first one. Uh, there. >>Yeah. So you know, this, there's a lot of similarities between Nutanix and Veem, especially when it comes to the general approach to partners. You know, where we're a software defined, uh, data protection platform. Nutanix, you're right hat an option, Hey, maybe we go build this ourself or we acquire and try to get that revenue, maybe the data protection revenue. And they've decided to partner just like we've decided to partner, you know, for secondary storage and everything else. And that, that really does lead us to mind because you know, a lot of our competitors do ship their software on white box hardware. Uh, some of the emerging startups are doing that and even some of the legacy players are all, you know, whether it's a Supermicro box and Intel box, we've taken a different approach and said, Hey look, you know, we, we, we know what we're good at and we know we want customer choice. >>And even, you know, Dheeraj and others at the keynote today talked about no vendor lock in. We're where we are. We have very similar approaches. And so, you know, we got together over a year ago, year and a half ago and said, Hey, look, you know, as Veem in a, we, we see some customers that are now asking for their data protection. You know, VM was founded on being simple and easy and there's even ways to take that to another level like mine, which is, Hey look, we want to now even simplify the day zero one the zero experience that even into the day one day two ops in terms of an integrated UI and other ways to to bring, you know, the infrastructure together with your data protection. And so it made perfect sense. We got together and it was like boom, a light bulb went off. We got on a whiteboard and we're like, yeah, we can do this. >>Like, you know, it's going to require joint development. And we've sort of made those commitments on both sides and it's been well received now. It's not in the market yet. It will be soon. Um, but the customer feedback has been incredible. We've done this very successful beta, we've got lots and lots of pent up customer demand. So it's like the sales teams are now saying, Hey, when can we, have you been talking about it for a while? When can we have this? Because we have customers ready to buy. So where we're there now that we're ready to bring this to market and excited about the opportunity together. >>So talk a little bit about the, the ins of that partnership. And you were just describing your ethos, which is making everything simple and easy, which is what we're hearing a lot here today. A. Dot. Next. So does that just mean that you attract the same kinds of employees, so then therefore they work well together in the sandbox? I mean, how would you describe the, the cultures coming together in this joint development process? >>Yeah, I think we're, we're similar companies, right? We're a similar size. We're a similar age. We're similar, you know, just, just all around, you know, our, our culture of innovation. So, you know, when we got together it was, it was pretty simple. Now, now doing development as two companies together is always hard. It's never easy. It's even hard to do it when it's one company on your own, right. And get a, get a product to market. Um, so I'd be lying if I said that weren't bumps along the way. There always are. Uh, but you know, we've, we've, we've worked through and we've, you know, we're, we're now, like I said at that point, and I think our, our, just our similarities and our cultures and really we have alignment at the executive level. And that's important, right. To, to get things done because, you know, well, well, you know, all of us that are sort of working on this thing, maybe a level or two, but when executive leadership is aligned, that's when things get done. And we have that between Nutanix and beam. >>Yeah. And Ken did the messaging that I'm hearing from Nutanix now reminds me of what I was hearing a couple of years ago from Veem specifically when you talk to cloud, uh, so a couple of years ago very much, I saw Microsoft up on stage, you know, living with AWS. What are you hearing from your customers and you know, do you see those parallel journeys or will the AHV integration mean that as Nutanix goes along that journey that Newtanics offerings will be able to live in these multiple cloud environments sometime too? >>Yeah. So I think a little bit of both, right? I think, I think the definitely be able to live out there. I mean, you know, you see VM-ware now wrapping their arms around all the hyperscale public cloud vendors. I mean, we heard about XY clusters and that was announced in Anaheim and we saw a demo of it today. And, and, and, you know, our goal is to support those workloads wherever they are. You know, we've, as I said before, we, we sorta made, made our hay and we were founded on attaching the vSphere then hyper V than HV and now AWS and Azure and all these other environments. And really, you know, the roots of it, we, we follow our customers along their journey, right? So, you know, this customers today that, that, you know, maybe smaller, newer companies that go straight to AWS, straight to Azure, they're born in the cloud and they're cloud only. >>You know, they may not be the best fit for Vien maybe a couple of years from now. Uh, they, they may just buy point solutions for the customers, the larger customers that have hybrid environments. That's what we're looking to attack. And you know, whether that's with Nutanix and VMware and those workloads that go, we, we want to make sure we attach here and give our customers the best experience and the ability to burst to the cloud and move around and workload portability, you know, we built features into the product. We've changed our, revolutionized our licensing to make that easier. So, so that's what we're after is is those hybrid customers solving those problems and those challenges they haven't building on our strength, which starts on prem but has moved into the cloud and, and, and spread quite a bit. Yeah. >>What do you see as some of the trends on the horizon? I mean, as you said, you just described your dream customer, which there, there's, there's a few of them out there so you'll be okay. So talk about some of the, the problems that you, that are keeping them up at night and how your solution solves them. >>You know, when it comes to data protection it, you know, everyone can say, Hey, my backups, they were 100% successful. It comes down to restore and reliability. And security, right? And we, you know, we've, we've built a lot into our product to give customers the peace of mind that, Hey, you know, when that call comes at at 11 o'clock at night and I need to recover assistant cause it's down, you know, we need to have hundred percent confidence that that will be there. And oftentimes when, you know, when we're converting customers over from maybe a competitor's product, that's what we hear the most is, is Hey, you know, it's the reliability and the confidence in the infrastructure and that's what we focus on most. And so, you know, we hear that a lot from customers and, and that's really where our focus is. We've got feet, as I said, features built into the product. >>You know, that, that that goes straight after that can, we've watched Newtanics really increased the breadth of what they're offering through through their software. Uh, they've been talking a lot. Files is one of the, you know, strong growth areas. There. Objects is another one that I, I expect would have some interaction with your environment. What are you hearing from customers? Where is Veeam moving with the HP support for some of these other solutions that Nutanix has? Yeah, so, so we've got a very big release coming, you know, in the next call it few months, quarter or so. Um, that is called V 10. You know, and if you guys read Vema on a couple of years ago, we've talked about V 10 and that was a number of features in there. NAS is a big one for us. Um, and it's one that that is probably the most asked for feature that we currently don't have. >>And so having support for files and we've already tested with the beta, you know, we know when we come out with that in a GA form that we're going to be successful with, with files. Uh, object storage is another one that was also part of the V tenet umbrella when we announced it, you know, while ago. Um, and it's been hugely successful for us. It's revolutionized, kind of the way that our customers look at longterm storage is, is, Hey, I can, I can move that to AWSs three or Azure blob or, you know, cloudy in or Swift stack or something else on pram or Nutanix objects. Um, you know, because again, customer choice, but, but we've, you know, we've embraced that because that's where customers are going. She asks, you know, what a customer that, that's, that's where, that's where they're going. They, they, they say, Hey, I want, you know, a lot of them want to get rid of tape, you know, and, and what's the best way to get in this is features of tape in object storage, right? There's object lock and ways to do, you know, uh, write once, read, read many times. So we're, you know, we look at object storage a little bit as, as the next generation of tape. Now it's, you know, it's not exactly that. There's lots of different use cases, but, but for us and for our customers, they're looking, they're looking to, to do the next generation data center. And that includes having object storage is a longterm tier. Uh, you know, for cost reasons, for manageability reasons, you know, of the light. >>Can you talk a little bit about the partner ecosystem and the evolution of it and particularly because the technology industry is, is changing so fast and you, you, you started this conversation by talking about how much your culture is aligned with Nutanix culture. How do you see, with, with these fast changing companies, fast changing technologies, how do you see five, 10 years from now, what will the technology landscape look like? >>Yeah, certainly. I mean obviously the, the push to cloud, that's big, right? Where we're making a lot of, a lot of changes on our site, where, where we're bringing out new products or bringing out new features that specifically take you to cloud. Um, you know, we, we were on with you guys at, at world and, and you know, there was, you know, project Tansu and all this other stuff about Cuba and it was, it was, that was the Coobernetti's conference. Right. And, and, uh, you know, I said earlier, you know, we want to move along at the pace that our customers want to go. So, you know, those, those sort of born in the cloud companies are going straight to Kubernetes, but we're moving along with our customers when it comes to Kubernetes and containers. So, so yeah, we're, we're paying attention to it. Do we have a product that can support every bit of, you know, Kubernetes and containers yet? >>No, but, but we're, you know, there's these things that we're working on and you know, in, in the way that Veem usually develops software, we're not usually first, but we usually come out with something that is rock solid, ready to go, customer ready. We have 355,000 customers we can't afford to and, and, and we're the stewards of their data. Uh, so when we come out with something yet, we may take slightly longer to do it, but you can be sure that it's rock solid, stable, robust, and that's, you know, that's our general approach. And so when you ask, you know, where our customers going, you know, they're definitely going to the cloud, they're going to Kubernetes, they're, you know, all these, all these new technologies, and, and, and, and we sort of like step back and we ask our customers, Hey, are you doing this? You know, what's your plan for this? Is it two years? Is it one year? Is it five years? Um, and we adjust accordingly. >>Yeah. Uh, can anything particular for your European customers that, that, that you can share? >>Yeah, I think, you know, when you think European customers and uniqueness from the rest of the world, I mean, you start with GDPR, right? That that was, you know, a huge thing that went into effect a year ago. Um, and we've, you know, we've, we've done things there, but they're, they're, they're very sensitive to, you know, that and, and being able to, you know, provide that capability for their customers. So, so I'd, I'd put that at the top of the list. I mean, cloud is a big one. You know, I think as we look at the hyperscalers in particular, AWS and Azure, you know, the U S is a big country. You don't need a lot of data centers to cover the country. But now you look at GDPR and some things need to stay in the, in the envelope of a, of a country. And Hey, this, you know, lots of countries in Europe and, and, and so more and more data centers. So the support of those public cloud vendors and the, the sprawl of, of the date and the sprawl of the data centers is, is really important. So having that coverage and being able to provide customer choice is incredibly important to European customers. >>Well, Ken, thank you so much for coming back on the cube. We always have a fun time talking to you. Right. Thank you. Next time I'll be here. Seventh, I'm Rebecca night for Stu Miniman. Stay tuned for more of the cubes live coverage of Nutanix. Dot. Next.

you live from Miami Beach Florida 2019 brought to you by V we're back this is the cube the leader in live tech coverage we're here in Miami this is a wrap of v-mon 2019 two days of coverage I'm Dave Volante with my co-host Peterborough's our third year covering v-mon we started in New Orleans we've seen you know veeam go from what they called at this show act one to act two and we talked two years ago about you know to the our first V Mon about the ascendancy of Veeam being so tightly tied to the rise of virtualization and now we heard this year act to being cloud multi cloud and we heard a number of announcements that are in support of that we're going to talk about that but Peter there were three key announcements this week one was the the billion dollar you know milestone they actually you know they finally hit a billion dollars I've been talking about it for a while it's now official billion dollars on a trailing 12-month basis they're a profitable company veem and a focused billion dollar yeah I think that's really a very focused I mean they do some M&A but not a lot of M&A and that's because of NIH I mean you know these guys they trust themselves to write code it's also it's also sustained that simple value proposition right and that's a in a fundamental Dogma I think I think it's fair to say we we heard the announcement of the the the with Veeam a API infrastructure which which is key we're going to talk about that we I think there were two companies they announced partnerships with Nutanix with mine and exa grid both taking advantage of that there will be others can ring doll just told us you know maybe 10 to 12 it's not going to be an enormous number at least for secondary storage yeah but and but that'll knock down a large portion of the infrastructure market and then a Veeam availability Orchestrator version 2 which allows you to do if fast backups recover from from backups without having to go to a replicated you know off-site and some other capabilities they call the dynamic documentation and automating testing and some DevOps capabilities so you know the people seem pretty excited about that it wasn't a sea of announcements like you see it some of these things which I think Peter talks to the degree of focus that you were just mentioning you know they're not about your bragging rights and the number of announcements that they can make you know it's really all about extending that platform a lot of incremental announcements ratmir told us not a big roadmap company even though he did show a roadmap today but the roadmap he showed was a lot of near-term functional improvement so very function rich you know the the tagline of it just works but um let's see I think there's the first time you and I have done v-mon together I've been here your impressions look I love wandering the halls and talked into the actual attendees and seeing what they have to say so I spent about an hour hour and a half just doing some work in one of the hallways here and one of the reasons I do that is because it's an opportunity here with the attendees and the customers are talking about and what's important to them you've got a lot of these shows and everybody's buzzing about one or another product announcement you go here and everybody's talking about the problems that they're solving and I think that one of the reasons why we didn't have this frenzy of product announcements like we have in so many other places because the focus is though because a lot of companies want the focus to be on them I think what we heard here or what I heard here somewhat different was again customers trying to solve the problems and Veeam creating an opportunity for them to talk in terms of some of the new directions and some of the new products that being are being introduced but the focus stayed on the customer and the problems of trying to solve and that's that's what to my mind that's what successful companies focus on yeah and I come back to this notion of the with Veeam the whole API integration cloud hybrid cloud the edge V wants to be and they've laid they laid this vision out you know certainly last year and even started the year before of of essentially being that that that backup capability data protection capability across wherever your data lives you know on from in cloud now they really are focused on on backup and data protection they even say backups where it starts a lot of other companies like don't even use the term backup no it's not about backup it's about data management and data protection so it's interesting that veem is really focused on on backup and when you do what you did and talk to the customers what do you use the V for backup backup backup backup and so so they're not over rotating to that vision now they're many of their competitors are going hard after that and doing some great great marketing so the competitive dynamics are very interesting now you got cohesive e you got rubric doing really well with positioning as a modern architecture in veeam definitely not a legacy company their business is growing you've got you've got CommVault you've got Dell EMC Veritas IBM you know trying to hit single-digit growth trying not to decline I mean IBM in particular declined and then and really had to do a deal with CAD illogic to stop veem from eating its market share that's really what that deal was all about you saw Dell EMC kind of take its eye off the ball when it merged with with Dell EMC you know it was the leader in in purpose-built backup appliances it's made some announcements recently to try to get you know it's got some really good start back in the game right so you know you don't ever count those guys out Comicon vaults approached it differently they've got a large install base you know Veritas went through private equity and so they had some some other challenges but again they're investing and so it's a big market you know people are gonna go fight hard for it and then and then with with the outside funding that's come in it's really up the game now a lot of that funding is gonna go to promotion which again comes back to your point about focused R&D really really important to focus R&D on things that customers want that you're gonna solve a business problem so if you go back and just just to take your segmentation and we can kind of look at it in a couple of perhaps simple ways you've got you've got you've got veem and companies like beam who saw the hole virtualization and the need to do a better job of supporting and protecting and and replicating and backing up virtualized resources all hitting the market pretty hard and then you have the Delhi MCS and a lot of the other companies that you mentioned trying to sustain or keep pace with those guys and then you have the new guys the Dhruv is and what not are we talking about just cross cloud multi cloud backup on top of that you have and something we talked about with a couple of guests the security guys are looking at this and saying wait a minute you know data is data and protection and security are going to be increasingly difficult to separate because data is going to move and I have to be able to move security with the data it's going to be an inevitability it's we're talking about a cloud that allows us to more do more distribution of data because we're gonna do more distribution of work and the security is gonna have to move for the data so the security guys are gonna get in this the networking guys are gonna be asked some questions about the opportunity you got the old guard who is more focused on devices and managing and backing up devices trying to get back in you got the new guys you're saying let's let's lead the the the act to before you know the veins get there it's gonna be an extremely complex market but all of its gonna boil down to this simple fact I'm gonna distribute data in response to the work that needs to be performed and how am I going to manage the digital assets that I have to make that easy so that it doesn't explode and all of these companies at some point kind of the next phase of this is going to be on protecting data but can I turn it into a digital asset so here's what I saw I saw them talking about the idea of you know what we're gonna protect locally I'll suggest it over the course the next couple of years it's going to be we're gonna do you know data asset management with protection with where the actual act of protecting it is similar to the act of defining it as an asset so being able to you know use a a snapshot for a lot of different uses already happening now but adding services you know a consistent set of services on top of that through with veem and other resources allow them to do that and then move more of that what's today regarded as replication function into that protection side of things a lot more support for locally because that's where the services are going to become having the services are not having the services it's really going to be an essential question because we're gonna move more of this data out to where the work is going to be profound we often talk about customers having to place bets but but the the the vendors are having to place bets as well they're obviously betting on multi-cloud but but juxtapose for example what themes doing it was interesting to hear ken ring doll he answered your question about whether it was em through M&A and he answered in an M&A context but or maybe organic development around more security functions and he kind of said Never Say Never but really focused the team the engineering team is really focused on backup and data protection and what they call data management juxtapose that now with way say for instance what a daydream is doing X data domain guys built their own file system trying to bring both primary and secondary stores together yeah and which I like and I think it's really powerful themes taking a different approach they're saying and with with VM api's we're gonna partner with pure we're gonna partner with with Cisco we're gonna partner with Nutanix so different approach and they're gonna obviously you know claim the same capability hey we can do that too you know date tree I'm saying well we can do that too with just one mousetrap you know the integration points etc so it's gonna really be interesting to see how that all shakes out that that word seamless you know I said it sometimes triggers me if it really is seamless you know theme has a go to market advantage relative to you know the the Swiss Army knife approach if it's not seamless then you know ad atrium approach will have an event it's from a product standpoint you and I both know there's so much more to success than just having a great product absolutely you know and mentioned it but but here's you know it's interesting one of the thought about what will the roadmap the practical roadmap because FEMA's altered its roadmap in response to customer demand quite frankly very successfully and and and and you know you got to applaud him for doing so but one of the things we heard was it look we don't want we don't want to over promise on the engineering front because you've got a certain number of Engineers and a certain engineering capacity focus them on things that are creating value to the problems you're trying to solve the same things true within a lot of user shops you don't want to throw a whole bunch of new function to new requirements and a bunch of guys who are still themselves trying to evolve from backing up devices to now actually protecting data and and so there's a there's a natural evolution that's going to take place and I and I think veeam that's done a pretty good job of keeping their finger on what that pulse is it's it's what can be invented but also what can be innovated if we think of innovation as the customer adopting and applying it and betting it and changing their activities around it and I think themes done a pretty good job of navigating you know that what can customers really do right now not getting too far ahead so a lot of these guys that the natural tendency that you come from a product perspective and you say put more into the product and you know get the better check marks and you know have the better it's better statute is better factsheet and I think Veeam is taking a simpler approach almost an apple like approach is an enterprise sense and saying look give them what they can a candle give them what they can use give them what's going to generate value and as they master that give them a little bit more it reminds me of is you said Apple it reminds me of early EMC days when EMC brought out you know it's symmetric it was it would connect you know AIX solaris unisys obviously the IBM mainframe it had all the optionality all the connectivity and that's kind of what would be and then the features that it announced were really practical they clearly solved the problem now since then you know MCS evolved into the checkbox so we have more features than anybody that's what happens when you everybody wants right you have the customer base everybody wants and they say check we have that thin provisioning we have that too and you know we're gonna freeze the market that's the you know much more mature company in their defense it's also in response to an increasingly specialized and complex customer base they're trying to cover all the base and you know competitive guys eating that they're absolutely absolutely and the sales guys saying hey we need something and they've done a great job of doing that but but Veeam is very very focused on the optionality in four years they they wouldn't talk about bare metal and a couple of years ago would beam on the big thing was hey we said for years that were only virtualization well guess what now we do bare metal that was sort of the one the big announcement one year so they're they're very judicious about how they allocate their R&D you know capital and in you're seeing that you know translate into function that actually gets used actually give yeah I think it's a key point I think your analogy with EMC is actually really good Dave because if you go back thirty years when the EMC first started getting going what was the problem controllers on mainframes and mini-computers were getting incredibly complex it's you know the Daddy controllers and the amount of processing that was being put into that in the microcode was just overwhelming most people's ability to deal with it and so MC came along and said well if that's the problem can we fix it we put cash in that'll just make this whole system simpler and then they stayed true to that for a number of years and they turn into a beer mark and it's interesting I think it is a good analogy because what is the problem the problem is data's going to be more distributed it's going to be more central to a company's mission it's gonna be used by more functions and repurposed into more applications that have a greater diversity of RTO and RPO and as a consequence they're saying they seem to be saying we're going to do our best to pose much function to that protect side of things local as we possibly can so that people who aren't PhDs in computer science to perform a real business service by making all that stuff work and then will at the same time work very closely with third parties who can bring specialization of that secondary storage to bear as the specialization increases because it's going to increase and the other the other you know China MB a case study example that I would point to is the early days of Veritas when Jim when Jeremy Burton was running Merrick marketing it Veritas II sort of coined the language Jeremy calling the no hardware agenda a pure software a lot of function and they you know rose to a couple of billion dollar you know in revenue you know very very successful now have the big install base that everybody wants to eat it's just again reminiscent the pure software company they're not shipping boxes they're not shipping appliances they're they're not selling direct their pure channel play there's a big tamp to just continue to do virtualization like the big question is are they going to will their focus on what they're currently doing translate into focus on multi cloud and here at this conference they're claiming yes we've heard nothing that suggests that they won't be able to but there's a lot of new players out there who are looking at that space and saying you know what I can do that too and there's gonna be a lot of invention a lot of investment and you know there's good reasons to suspect it beans gonna be able to evolve successfully but there are a few areas where I think they're gonna have to focus more time in the big part of a CEOs job is Tam expansion and you know right now there are you know a billion out of fifteen let's call it so there's a long way to go but as you point out that multi-cloud appears like it's gonna be lucrative and there's a lot of different companies coming at it from from different angles you guys tell me we look at it is this big blob yeah this is gonna be incredibly specialized very fragmented I mean you got Cisco coming at it from a networking perspective RedHat coming from a past perspective Google you know partnering everybody Amazon right now ignoring it but you guarantee they're gonna be awesome and Microsoft has to be in it because of the huge estate of on-prem you know software and there's a dozen security guys are gonna be looking at this and saying oh look data in motion that's my service now is going to get its pieces so very interesting how that's all gonna shake out it's okay so wrap it up Peter you know kind of summarize your thoughts on the space v-mon so first beam on for me a lot of customers that we're talking about solving complex problems during their digital business transformation that's always good to hear got to a billion dollars that's a great milestone for any software company good reasons is the fact that beam is going to evolve into a company like Veritas like one of the big guys this is a company that's got legs and I think that the final one that I'd say not got legs but that they've got what it takes to be able to affect this transition they probably got the execution chops look we had a user on here who effectively said if you're not using if you're CIO and you're not using veem you're not competent and you know he said that that's not that's not a bad testimonial when you come down to it yeah and then the one thing that we have not talked about which is it shines through is culture yeah you know this company has a culture that is a winning culture it's a fun culture there's an accountability associated with it and and very customer orientation solutely up so that's the winning formulas have been fun sort of watching these guys grow and interacting with a number of their customers and you saw you saw a couple years ago Veeam saying okay we're going Enterprise so I ain't so easy there's just say we're going enterprise but in interestingly even though they've somewhat retrenched from that messaging they're having success in the enterprise clearly with their partnerships with guys like HPE at Cisco and NetApp and and others and so they're just gonna let it bake a little bit and go from there position of strength which is that you know kind of s in an MB do more simply with your protection environment is not a bad story a company of any size right right and okay Peter hey you spent great working with you thank you and thank you for watching guys great job awesome go to Silicon angle comm you'll see all the news the cube net is where we host all these videos and you'll see wiki bond comm has all the research Peter recently wrote a great piece on on data protection and how that markets involving check out our Twitter at the cube and at the cube 365 Twitter handles you'll see all kinds of clips coming out of this show and other shows let's see where we got a lot coming up good for you and what do you think so I think you're seeing as I said before a very practical approach to gaining foothold and in maintaining and growing in a market I like the business model this this company has been somewhat opaque you know european-based you know the Russian founders but and and most of us businesses outside of the US and and I think they're really coming into the mainstream now and Cube helps make it more transparent yeah absolutely and right because you can ask the questions of people and you know you get you get all kinds of different answers so and we're able to have you know independence on you know guys like Justin the firm's like the four five one guys that you know Gartner coming on and and it's fun to have those guys so so it's been great thank you for watching the cube go to the cube dotnet check out the events that are coming up we got a huge huge season May and June or our busiest months take a slight break in July although you know we'll be cranking this summer as well so thank you for watching everybody we're out Dave a lot day for Peterborough's we'll see you next time

live from Miami Beach Florida it's the queue covering beam on 2019 brought to you by V hello everyone welcome back to Miami this is the cubed a leader and live tech covers is day two of our coverage of v-mon 2019 at the Fontainebleau Hotel in sunny Miami Dave Volante with Peter Burroughs Trevor stars is here is the director of systems engineering for pure storage Trevor great to see you again yeah thanks for having me yeah well we've been following pure since the did the early days I remember interviewing Scott Dietzen it's a snw way back when and seeing the ascendency and the rise fewer hits escape velocity he goes public just been an awesome ride you guys have really kind of transformed the industry started out as you know the flash play but now really getting much deeper into sort of data and data strategies and data protection is one of those so we're here at v-mon what are your impressions so far this week the conference has been great a lot of great interactions theme has been an incredibly strong alliance partner for us the synergies are just incredible because you know as we've evolved as you mentioned from a singular product in all flash array and disrupting the market there back in the early 2010's evolving into more of a data platform company and data protections actually turned out to be a great business for us it's growing incredibly fast and you know like I said a lot of great synergies with beam so the systems engineering role has always been a critical part of the the sales process right this right the SC's is like I need an se you know and then you guys will go in help the sales team really understand what the customer needs you'll help solve problems but how was that roll it to find a pure and how was it evolving in the industry yeah absolutely and I think similar to our products in the early days we we hired a lot of folks who were storage specialists and and we've evolved into having to go far beyond that right into the different realms around things like AI machine learning data protection you know virtualization containers and so it it's definitely evolving it's challenge to us as a company and we're certainly trying to not maintain a status quo we want to continue to disrupt and do that in adjacent markets so how do you work with veem just in terms of taking your platform and their software and making a solution that's kind of simple for customers it's not you know stove-piped you know single throat to choke describe that whole process yeah yeah so we recently earlier this year maybe it was late last year we we developed some integration with beam to where we we actually integrate with their universal storage API so beam can control pure storage snapshots which you're which are probably familiar with pure snapshots on flash are incredibly powerful it's a it's a very powerful metadata engine in purity and which means we can take thousands of snapshots with no performance impact in their near instantaneous with veeam we can instantly integrate that into Veen backup and data protection workflows and vm can completely control pure storage snapshots both honoré and offer a which we'll talk about without having to have a storage administrator log into pure at all okay and so talk more about how the system plays with your customers I mean when you're when you're in with the customer and you're sort of scoping it out how is that conversation changing is just in terms of as you say you went from okay here's an array and flash now there's all the spectrum of other things that you're doing that's what's the data protection conversation like how does it relate to their digital transformation their digital business where do you guys fit there well operationally we've seen a huge trend from customers that a decade or so ago you saw the trend of going from disk to disk to tape tape for long term archive what we're actually here at the conference really promoting is this idea of the next big wave of evolution there which is we see customers going from flash to flash for the first step in backup and then instead of off-site tape going to the cloud so that's been an incredibly successful message for us early on and so that actually started with you know I mentioned the pure flash or a snapshot integration but actually moving those snapshots off of flash array to our second product which is flash blade flash blades a really unique product it was originally designed with the next big wave of innovation in mind around things like containers and deep learning where high amounts of bandwidth and parallelism are just absolutely critical billions of small files it just so happens that actually caters really well to backup performant and restore performance so backing up to disk was a big success for a lot of customers but what they're seeing now and what we're seeing as workloads continue to get more diverse is that there's a restore challenge so we have customers that are backing up to disk but they're seeing massive challenges around getting their data back and getting back online the recovery time objective pressures from the business are becoming more and more important this actually started for us in the SAS industry where one of the world's largest SAS providers out in Silicon Valley had to do an increasing amount of restore and they've they actually started using flash blade as what we call a rapid restore platform so they're able to nearly instantaneously restore these databases and what we found is nearly across the board and in all other industries that there's a large number of customers that have that challenge more so then we find you know going to market with flash played for like AI for example there's not as many people doing that quite yet we've been successful in the ones that are but across the board healthcare legal high-tech you name it it there's a restore problem and with flash played we've seen people go you know for example one of our really other customers outside of the SAS world is in the healthcare space the industry's number one cancer center in the in the world is actually leveraging it for rapid restore for databases but they're also doing some other neat things because flash blades not a purpose-built backup appliance it can be used for other things anything file an object works great so what you can do is you can combine the use cases and that's been really powerful from a TCO perspective you might say customers might say well you know flash is too expensive but if there's a restore problem that may not matter and then if you combine it with other use cases we call that our data hub story it's even more powerful in the TCO becomes you know really attractive so the healthcare using it for PACs and rapid restore you know there's other industries like you know my gaming industry like I mentioned high tech so that data hub message has been really powerful that's return on asset and asset leverage oh absolutely and and and one of the things I'd like to talk about Trevor is relating to that is there are a lot of ways of describing some of those fundamentals some of those really contingent and essential changes that are taking place in the industry today but one of them clearly is flash allows us to move from a data storage orientation of record and you know save the data to one of deliver the data to new applications pure has been at the vanguard of that and has seen a lot of these new use cases as we think about no return on data assets and whatnot how is your visibility into those new use cases changing Pure's perspective and pure customers perspective on data protection because it seems like the notion of data protection which has been around for a long time is starting to fray as these new use cases say it's not just protecting about what's happened it's setting me up for doing new types of work in the future so how is that how is pure seeing that how does that conversation about data protection changing because of some of the drive that purus got in them in the marketplace yeah and I think the first step is hey I can backup my data but if I can't use it it's kind of worthless right so being able to use that data and much much more rapidly but also repurposing that this idea of data silos has been around IT for years and with flash blade and that data hub story we're really breaking down those silos to be able to say hey the same the same platform that you're storing your data protection data as well as other data it's the same platform that I might be able to spin that data up so beams got a great story with data labs where you can actually spin up these virtual environments and run and on a purposeful backup device you know you it's it's questionable if that actually works right and having to pull that back over the network to another silo with Flash blade and the data hub it makes that realistic and and getting so much more out of the data delivering that back to the business and actually be able to deliver these key insights into what my data is actually doing and be able to make better business decisions as what the output you see kind of an analogy of a relationship between previous to now where storage was about persisting data and therefore was about protecting what has happened to flash being about delivering data to new applications and therefore there's some new concept our customers pushing you guys towards something that goes that's bigger than data protection I mean it's something that we're struggling with and one of the customers we have is struggling with how do I talk about what these services are when I'm spitting up kubernetes clusters like that that's right so is it is there some new conversation that you're starting to see you guys are one of the first to have a conversation about data you know flash data for AI are you starting to have conversations about you know deliver data something more than protection yeah near real-time ability to spin up development environments see ICD pipelines all of those things we actually have a product that as a pure customer you get as inclusive of maintenance contract called pure source service Orchestrator which can actually help provision end-to-end container environments and being able to repurpose that data for like I said test dev development pipelines and those kind of things and we're also as you've probably heard we're tying that into a cloud strategy as well so there's there's products we've announced cloud block storage side as well as object engine which is a product we haven't talked about yet which enables customers to truly see the benefit of a hybrid cloud scenario so they may be developing an application on Prem and pushing the cloud or vice versa and we're actually going to give them that back capability to do that talk more about object engines specifically what it is that means been inferring object yes store and object engine you know you hear the name it could mean a number of things but clearly it has to do with object storage so object engine was actually a technology that was born in the cloud so it was a cloud native application that was really designed around data reduction for cloud workloads what we've done as part of that product it folded into peers we've actually ironically it is not what we used it for first we'd developed an appliance and we call that our object engine appliance that's just phase one so what object engine delivers is a highly scalable highly performant data reduction platform we're starting with backup and data protection workloads so vemma obviously does their in-line data reduction technology if the customer finds that they need something more scalable they can actually leverage object engine to do that and then flash blade on the back end as the initial tier and then the future vision for object engine is that it's going to give you the cloud connectivity to be able to say okay I want to automatically push my backup workloads from an archive perspective out to the cloud we're starting in AWS we're gonna do Azure and others as well so the next big wave of that that you'll see is actually running object engine in the cloud in a hybrid scenario and be able to move those work clothes back and forth so kind of envision you know the the near-term backup and restore most of the resource happen within a week or two on Prem and then 100% also stored in the cloud for more long-term archives so that really it really completes the flash to flash the cloud story but we're not gonna stop with backup workloads either and where's your sort of value added in that equation and where's VM and how do you sort of what's the connection points there good question good question so I you know I think again I mentioned via obviously has their in line data reduction technology where we insert object engine is really one of two reasons one if if our data reduction offsets the cost of the whole solution without using it with just using beams data reduction because it is it's a hardware offload essentially and then the second one is if you need a you know a large amount of data that you want to push out to the cloud as our kind of phase two of that product right okay I want to ask you about the partnership from the terms from the standpoint of values sure the values of pure are you guys are fun company I love orange you go to pure accelerate everybody's wearing orange to come here everybody's wearing green so these seem to be kind of birds of a feather but but we just talked about value add what about the values of your company and sort of how you guys getting along yeah we're getting along great I like I said there's a lot of synergies from a solution standpoint but just from a go-to market standpoint trying to be you know a disruptive company it just technology disruptive solutions what is that next thing right not being a me-too player in the market and so I think we share a lot of those those same values but also customer success we really focus on the outcomes and a happiness of the customer and that that's down in the core of our engineering same thing with beam where I think we can really help each other is Veeam has a big push right now to move up market into the enterprise and we feel like we can help beam in that respect we've been very successful in enterprise and likewise veem obviously has a major presence in amia and that's a market that is is is growing for us substantially but we've got a lot of upside so we really think we can help each other there and I actually failed to mention the very first object engine flash Blade sale we did was with him so you know it was it was it was just natural in that perspective and I think pre object engine and before this whole idea of rapid restore really took off with flash blade it was it was just the flashier a protection and even that's still pretty new but now it's much more comprehensive so we've got common common competitors as well and pure accelerates coming up in September it's in Austin you're your hometown I'm town in Austin Texas so yeah we'll be there September 15th to 18th and we're going to be talking about a ton of stuff obviously flash to flash the cloud but well beyond storage as well so even if you know don't think of it as just a storage conference it's always fun event we've covered now I think twice this will be our third year so in Austin is a great great town and looking forward to that Trevor thanks so much for coming on the cube love that loved it thanks for having me feel very welcome all right keep it right to everybody we'll be back with our next guest right after this short break I'm Dave Volante with Peterborough's v-mon 28 2019 from Miami right back

live from Miami Beach Florida Biman 2019 brought to you by beam welcome back to sunny Miami everybody you're watching the cube the leader in live tech coverage we like to go out to the events extract the signal from the noise and we're here at Vemma on 2019 I'm Dave Volante with my co-host this is day 2 Peter Burris and I have been covering wall-to-wall coverage with the cube folks from net APIs are here Jeff McCullough who's the vice president of Americas partner sales for net app and our good friend Keith Norby who runs alliances for net up guys great to see you thanks for coming on thanks for having us so Keith let's start with you V has been a partner of yours for a while now you guys go to market together year you have always been very partner friendly particularly when it comes to data protection but what's the state of the partnership today yeah this is something that we'd looked at a couple years ago and got into a very much more strategic relationship with veem over a year ago kind of work through a lot of ways to reconnect and establish a better together and this is something that we think is a strategic opportunity is kind of backed by a lot of the data you see at this show talking about you know organizations are gonna change roughly 60% of the organization is going to change their platform because of cost complexity reasons and together we've been working with Veeam to figure out how to deliver data protection for a data fabric and and IDC validates that in a number of ways that we can unpack here on this on the show or in the conversations with customers and and we've gotten great reaction to it and Jeff you lead America's partner sales from North America South America the whole kit and kaboodle talk more about your role sure well my responsibility is net at partners I am I'm successful when our partners successful are successful so everything I do is all around putting our partners in the position of you know executing being successful within that brand certainly being profitable right having profitable strong businesses and and growing right growing and taking taking market share and and helping them expand and grow their respective business law you guys have dramatically increased the percentage of your sales that come through the channel over the last you know 10 10 12 years yes pretty significantly and there's a fundamental part of your strategy stager at this executive level so yeah for sure you know channel is its core to what we do you know when we go to market you know with developing our products or executing our marketing plans it's all around how do we go execute with partners right whether it's the tools the partners need the pricings the programs to help them go engage in the market that leads to man generation and we're at various stages in all these but you know what I think you'll see consistently from the partners that you know certainly will talk and talk about their net businesses we generally lead in profitability across our partner base and we absolutely lead in terms of total profitability when you include things like services attached and how we go and execute on us partner delivered services strategy so you know from I always say NetApp is it's not just a product category it's a whole economy for our channel and it puts people to work it allows them to expand and grow their teams and it's it's a critical part of many many of the partners that are here today at veeneman certain v-mon and and certainly in the marketplace and your partner friendly and assess that you don't have a huge services organization that's competing with your channel i mean that's a jerk yeah we put partner services in the forefront of everything we do Keith you talked about better together yeah what does that mean just in terms of engineering integration go to market I mean how did you sort over the last two years you know get better together what specific actions were you guys taking I think you got to look at it first from kind of the customer in the markets in and you got a look at what's the dynamic that requires change right that sort of shapes what your PRD and your Mardis are to make a product in this case you know we've got platforms that have incredible snapshot technologies so to me it really starts there with simplifying the way that you get the first copy of data and then simply working with the strengths that veem has and their platforms and making sure that we have great option ality between our replication and other snapshot technologies their replication tech to be able to give a level of flexibility for this data fabric to come to life you know no matter if you've got the traditional data center that's got these enterprise apps like at sa P Hana or others or you built the next generation data center like on that FH CI and you're building up scale out via more private cloud or you've got the hyper scalar cloud you know with our cloud volumes you know we have options on how we get data throughout the copy process of primary to secondary to you know cloud and tertiary data so you know to us it was about really making that as simple and as pre-wired as possible via the api's and then really making that easy for partners to go and grab on to to make it easy for someone to buy us because you always want to build something that people want to buy no one wants to be sold any of this stuff and so building the right thing that people want to buy the next step then with Jeff and reason why is so critical to this is getting that ready for the partners be able to have an easy process with their customers that frankly they love people hate to be sold they love to buy yeah let's talk about they love to buy one of the challenges that the entire industry has is we move through the significant transformation is customers user organizations or themselves in the midst of huge transformations institutional transformations technology transformations relationship with their business transformation mission transformation just starting with this whole role that the channel is has been playing it's going to play how will the channel be an increasing source of value add in the deal yeah how's that playing out to help these customers you know smooth their changes yeah and I think you know I was just watching the news this morning right target announced their earnings and a big part of their earnings announcement was the improvement they made in customer interaction through digital platforms right the ability to order online pick up in the store or order online and have it delivered same-day right and these are and it's just you know one example you can go down the list of customers that have really used transformation to change their business right and you know Chipotle who's trans you know they've transformed burritos now and a lot of their successes come through digital transformation platforms so you know the evidence is overwhelming that digital transformation drives better results and we've done a lot of study at this right we we have lots of detail around customers that know how to use data and you know that the basic fact is one out of ten customers is in a position to actually leverage data effectively right this is all of the research we've done along you know with partners with with other companies the other nine need help and this is where channel partners come in this is what I tell partners all the time is this digital transformation wave is real the results are real and the customers need to move is is real and so they play a role in can play a role in helping customers accelerate that digital transformation and so our portfolio is all around accelerating customers and their ability to leverage data to transform their business and partners through both of the portfolio that they sell but then the partner driven services that we promote and drive you know really stand out in the forefront of being able to help a customer execute these these really tough strategies and in you know the thing that reason why customers love partners is partners bring choices right and you know for us as vendors we have to deal with the other side of that which is partners have choices and who they sell so we represent a portfolio that is forward thinking it aligns to where the market is going the lines to the tough problems that customers have and it's you know in its a position that allows partners to be profitable and and make money helping customers transform and deliver their own success but it's got to be more than just partners cat create choices and here's one explain what I mean by that it's increasingly your typical CIO medium-sized company large size company which is where we spend most of our time is thinking in terms of what is going to bring me value today and also generate a stream of value for me in the future so I need choice now but options for the future that are relevant and meaningful and so partners increasingly have to be part of that options equation how are they going to create options for customers and you know one of the nice things about the relationship that you have the theme is that you are a partner to veem and presumably you're going to help Veen customers create additional types of options through this expanding folio of value that you guys have so so talk about that dynamic because it really requires an even greater dependency on that customer partner engagement including you know the dependency the beam has on on you guys yeah doing it maybe start with just the veem partnership partnership yeah I think you know which we create the conditions with which I think a partner comes to life with what we've tried to do in in the product building solutions and then trying to develop the go-to-market around the partners ability to go meet the market and what the market is asking for in such you know the partners have natural services on the front side of the assessments a bit like trying to help you plan your 401 K they help you like see what kind of data you don't even see we have a wealth of partners that just have incredible skills there and then as they take that through our solution we do everything we can to make that process easy to match our technology to that design requirement and then afterwards the partners always have these these great capabilities for things like you know a one call or a managed service to help take even more complexity off the table for people to just live with the ability to have data protected across all spectrums of where they have data live so the partner equation is definitely getting more complicated right if you dial back you know half a decade decade you had guys who sold hardware boxes they livox sellers we love them but and they moved a lot of a lot of product and they worked with you okay now the cloud comes in you guys they're going you know software-defined so you can run your services in the cloud you know or you run it on Prem you've got hybrid so it's a complicated equation much more so than it was in the past so how are you seeing the partners evolve and transform you know beyond the sort of box selling mentality of course you know VMware specialists you get those guys at sa P maybe Oracle but yeah but it's even more than that now with cloud isn't it oh yeah yeah you know cloud is you know kind of the third big disruptive wave in the channel right if you think of kind of client-server is the big first disruptive way of virtualization the second disruptive way to now cloud just purely from a channel perspective the third big one and maybe the biggest right because it is completely changing the dynamics and the economics of how partners operate and you know and we've been looking at this for you know for a long time and certainly as we move our portfolio as we transition our portfolio to be cloud enabled and native to the cloud it creates options but but you know the market is moving from you know deal based revenue to reoccurring revenue and what I see partners moving to is various various degrees of reoccurring revenue strategies whether they're setting up their own MSP business and they're opening up shop and they're doing data protection on demand or they are doing managed services on premise and they're charging customer or they're buying out the infrastructure I'm charging a customer once a month or they're selling services in the cloud and in what I think is also interesting and you can see the kind of the direction where the industry of a channel is going is when you look at the acquisitions that partners are making not only of each other but of software development right IP there are going out and buying software development because the the the long term opportunity is not just selling the infrastructure it's selling a solution solving a big problem right which could be this digital transformation opportunity but it's it's more than just sure I can I can upgrade your servers it's their digital transformation right it is you know you know kind of clouds not really a destination right everybody thinks clouds the destination I got to get to you know it's not a destination it's a tool in the bag that you know customer is going to use and certainly a partner is going to leverage cloud to create a money stream write a business model that is sustainable and can grow but it's super dynamically different than what we do you know what they're doing today so you guys talk about profitability before you had a point go ahead and I say balance all that against I think we're the volume the mass of the volume is even though the hyper scalars have a tremendous amount of growth it is still VM based it is still kind of on-prem based and so there's still in this two-year window of change the vast majority of the opportunity is going to be on Prem but you also have to factor in how you involve the cloud and that strategy as what ratmir would called second wave right of beams strategy and we're right in the heart of that I mean there isn't any greater strength than what we're doing as a company with NetApp than what we're doing with cloud and it's just a natural way for us to extend you know a partner's capability a customer's ability to buy what they what you'd want to get from NetApp and beam together well and what the hyper scales have done is they've changed the way in which people consume technology absolutely understand and NetApp is a great case study of a company that's moving through that process from a product orientation to a services orientation the key I want to come back to this notion of how the NetApp relationship with Veen creates new classes of options for Ravine customers as they thought try to think about data protection differently because precisely because it's Dave said you have expanded your portfolio you are going to market with a different value proposition than a couple years ago how is that playing out in your conversations with customers as they think about moving from a data protection that's focused on devices to a data protection that's focused on delivery of digital services yeah well it's not a great topic to talk about where do you start with that organically I think you look at the way people try to operate and deal with the operations of data protection you know it really starts there because you know cloud is really about IT operations what we've done is really try to simplify that stack to get beyond it being one single endpoint of technology so it's not just about how we take data sets you know from say a net F as or a net of HCI and bring it through Veeam to another thousand or eseries and then off to the cloud you know it's beyond just the basic technology it's much more operational and it's in its nature so if you look at all the stuff they're talking about here with VOA and all the discovery elements that they're doing to help make it easier one of the one of the areas that IDC caught particularly in one of our benefit statements on taking complexity off the table is our ability to have autodiscover of yemm's you know it's it's ways that you could make much more autonomy and orchestration of operations kind of come to life as a way of you doing this technology together that's only just one of the example points that we have on this better together with veem taking the heart of their core technology and where they're being you know pervade of in in not just a VM centric crowd but also hyper-v and some of the other things they talked about that's kind of the top of their rationalize stack and then bringing that down through the heart of our data fabric portfolio and saying you know any one point at which you're at we were able to put these things together at the heart of the first step and we kind of mapped this customer journey out in our presentation to the attendees here was this customer journey from the current form of complexities you have you know and moving that all the way through to snapshot integration platform selection of which ones would make sense for what scenario how we work through veem x' data replication and management technologies our data replication our data fabric technologies to get from one endpoint to the other so and then ultimately you gotta be able talk about the ability to restore or you really shouldn't be talking about backup all right we got a wrap but I'm gonna ask you guys each question Jeff from trip reports so from your standpoint you talkin sales momentum with partners what are you gonna tell your colleagues and Keith obviously the partnership with Veen what what are you gonna tell your colleagues when you get back home yeah so so for me it's you know this is we've talked about transformation this you know I think our relationship with Veeam and the strategies that we're executing is all around transforming data protection right and it's really around this concept of simplification and I think as we were chatting before before we started taping the you know simple simple matters right simplification or simple is really attractive feature and you know our ability to simplify data protection for customers in partnership with Veeam deliver solution that's you know clearly world-class and you know NetApp bringing world-class technology to the table it's a great partnership it creates an opportunity for us to go and have conversations with customers that made me never thought of NetApp before and and it's you know an opportunity for us to open a lot of doors and certainly for me what I care about it's an opportunity for our partners to open a lot of doors yeah I would just say listen we worked from our joint CEOs together so George and ratmir starting this like joint bond of alignment all the way down through product solutions feel Geo's channels we're gonna have explosive growth together you know we're gonna go address this market that is looking to change we've got something we're bringing together and it's absolutely better together great power players aligning at the top all the way down through the channel to the partners into the cloud bringing you all the data here the cube Jeff and Keith thanks very much for coming on the cube keep it right to everybody Peter Burris and I will be back with our next guest right after this short break we're live from Miami at Vemma in 2019 over a pack