(Upbeat intro music) >> Thanks guys. Hi everybody. Welcome back to The Spheres. My name is Dave Vellante and you're watching theCubes continuous coverage of AWS storage day. I'm really excited to bring on Wayne Duso. Wayne is the vice-president of AWS Storage Edge and Data Governance Services. Wayne, two Boston boys got to come to Seattle to see each other. You know. Good to see you, man. >> Good to see you too. >> I mean, I'm not really from Boston. The guys from East Boston give me crap for saying that. [Wayne laughs] That my city, right? You're a city too. >> It's my city as well I'm from Charlestown so right across the ocean. >> Charlestown is actually legit Boston, you know I grew up in a town outside, but that's my city. So all the sports fan. So, hey great keynote today. We're going to unpack the keynote and, and really try to dig into it a little bit. You know, last 18 months has been a pretty bizarre, you know, who could have predicted this. We were just talking to my line about, you know, some of the permanent changes and, and even now it's like day to day, you're trying to figure out, okay, you know, what's next, you know, our business, your business. But, but clearly this has been an interesting time to say the least and the tailwind for the Cloud, but let's face it. How are customers responding? How are they changing their strategies as a result? >> Yeah. Well, first off, let me say it's good to see you. It's been years since we've been in chairs across from one another. >> Yeah. A couple of years ago in Boston, >> A couple of years ago in Boston. I'm glad to see you're doing well. >> Yeah. Thanks. You too. >> You look great. (Wayne Laughs) >> We get the Sox going. >> We'll be all set. >> Mm Dave you know, the last 18 months have been challenging. There's been a lot of change, but it's also been inspiring. What we've seen is our customers engaging the agility of the Cloud and appreciating the cost benefits of the Cloud. You know, during this time we've had to be there for our partners, our clients, our customers, and our people, whether it's work from home, whether it's expanding your capability, because it's surging say a company like zoom, where they're surging and they need more capability. Our cloud capabilities have allowed them to function, grow and thrive. In these challenging times. It's really a privilege that we have the services and we have the capability to enable people to behave and, execute and operate as normally as you possibly can in something that's never happened before in our lifetimes. It's unprecedented. It's a privilege. >> Yeah. I mean, I agree. You think about it. There's a lot of negative narrative, in the press about, about big tech and, and, and, you know, the reality is, is big tech has, has stood and small tech has stepped up big time and we were really think about it, Wayne, where would we be without, without tech? And I know it sounds bizarre, but we're kind of lucky. This pandemic actually occurred when it did, because had it occurred, you know, 10 years ago it would have been a lot tougher. I mean, who knows the state of vaccines, but certainly from a tech standpoint, the Cloud has been a savior. You've mentioned Zoom. I mean, you know, we, productivity continues. So that's been, been pretty key. I want to ask you, in you keynote, you talked about two paths to, to move to the Cloud, you know, Vector one was go and kind of lift and shift if I got it right. And then vector two was modernized first and then go, first of all, did I get that right? And >> Super close and >> So help me course correct. And what are those, what are those two paths mean for customers? How should we think about that? >> Yeah. So we want to make sure that customers can appreciate the value of the Cloud as quickly as they need to. And so there's, there's two paths and with not launches and, we'll talk about them in a minute, like our FSX for NetApp ONTAP, it allows customers to quickly move from like to like, so they can move from on-prem and what they're using in terms of the storage services, the processes they use to administer the data and manage the data straight onto AWS, without any conversion, without any change to their application. So I don't change to anything. So storage administrators can be really confident that they can move. Application Administrators know it will work as well, if not better with the Cloud. So moving onto AWS quickly to value that's one path. Now, once they move on to AWS, some customers will choose to modernize. So they will, they will modernize by containerizing their applications, or they will modernize by moving to server-less using Lambda, right? So that gives them the opportunity at the pace they want as quickly or as cautiously as they need to modernize their application, because they're already executing, they're already operating already getting value. Now within that context, then they can continue that modernization process by integrating with even more capabilities, whether it's ML capabilities or IOT capabilities, depending on their needs. So it's really about speed agility, the ability to innovate, and then the ability to get that flywheel going with cost optimization, feed those savings back into betterment for their customers. >> So how did the launches that you guys have made today and even, even previously, do they map into those two paths? >> Yeah, they do very well. >> How so? Help us understand that. >> So if we look, let's just run down through some of the launches today, >> Great. >> And we can, we can map those two, those two paths. So like we talked about FSX for NetApp ONTAP, or we just like to say FSX for ONTAP because it's so much easier to say. [Dave laughs] >> So FSX for ONTAP is a clear case of move. >> Right >> EBS io2 Block Express for Sand, a clear case of move. It allows customers to quickly move their sand workloads to AWS, with the launch of EBS direct API, supporting 64 terabyte volumes. Now you can snapshot your 64 terabyte volumes on-prem to already be in AWS, and you can restore them to an EBS io2 Block Express volume, allowing you to quickly move an ERP application or an Oracle application. Some enterprise application that requires the speed, the durability and the capability of VBS super quickly. So that's, those are good examples of, of that. In terms of the modernization path, our launch of AWS transfer managed workflows is a good example of that. Manage workflows have been around forever. >> Dave: Yeah. >> And, and customers rely on those workflows to run their business, but they really want to be able to take advantage of cloud capabilities. They want to be able to, for instance, apply ML to those workflows because it really kind of makes sense that their workloads are people related. You can apply artificial intelligence to them, >> Right >> This is an example of a service that allows them to modify those workflows, to modernize them and to build additional value into them. >> Well. I like that example. I got a couple of followup questions, if I may. Sticking on the machine learning and machine intelligence for a minute. That to me is a big one because when I was talking to my line about this is this, it's not just you sticking storage in a bucket anymore, right? You're invoking other services: machine intelligence, machine learning, might be database services, whatever it is, you know, streaming services. And it's a service, you know, there it is. It's not a real complicated integration. So that to me is big. I want to ask you about the block side of things >> Wayne: Sure >> You built in your day, a lot of boxes. >> Wayne: I've built a lot of boxes. >> And you know, the Sand space really well. >> Yeah. >> And you know, a lot of people probably more than I do storage admins that say you're not touching my Sand, right? And they just build a brick wall around it. Okay. And now eventually it ages out. And I think, you know, that whole cumbersome model it's understood, but nonetheless, their workloads and our apps are running on that. How do you see that movement from those and they're the toughest ones to move. The Oracle, the SAP they're really, you know, mission critical Microsoft apps, the database apps, hardcore stuff. How do you see that moving into the Cloud? Give us a sense as to what customers are telling you. >> Storage administrators have a hard job >> Dave: Yeah >> And trying to navigate how they move from on-prem to in Cloud is challenging. So we listened to the storage administrators, even when they tell us, No. we want to understand why no. And when you look at EBS io2 Block Express, this is in part our initial response to moving their saying into the Cloud super easily. Right? Because what do they need? They need performance. They need their ability. They need availability. They need the services to be able to snap and to be able to replicate their Capa- their storage. They need to know that they can move their applications without having to redo all they know to re-plan all they work on each and every day. They want to be able to move quickly and confidently. EBS io2 Block Express is the beginning of that. They can move confidently to sand in the Cloud using EBS. >> Well, so why do they say 'no'? Is it just like the inherent fear? Like a lawyer would say, don't do that, you know, don't or is it just, is it, is it a technical issue? Is it a cultural issue? And what are you seeing there? >> It's a cultural issue. It's a mindset issue, but it's a responsibility. I mean, these folks are responsible for the, one of the most important assets that you have. Most important asset for any company is people. Second most important asset is data. These folks are responsible for a very important asset. And if they don't get it right, if they don't get security, right. They don't get performance right. They don't get durability right. They don't get availability right. It's on them. So it's on us to make sure they're okay. >> Do you see it similar to the security discussion? Because early on, I was just talking to Sandy Carter about this and we were saying, you remember the CIA deal? Right? So I remember talking to the financial services people said, we'll never put any data in the Cloud. Okay they got to be one of your biggest industries, if not your biggest, you know customer base today. But there was fear and, and the CIA deal changed that. They're like, wow CIA is going to the Cloud They're really security conscious. And that was an example of maybe public sector informing commercial. Do you see it as similar? I mean there's obviously differences, but is it a sort of similar dynamic? >> I do. I do. You know, all of these ilities right. Whether it's, you know, durability, availability, security, we'll put ility at the end of that somehow. All of these are not jargon words. They mean something to each persona, to each customer. So we have to make sure that we address each of them. So like security. And we've been addressing the security concern since the beginning of AWS, because security is job number one. And operational excellence job number two. So, a lot of things we're talking about here is operational excellence, durability, availability, likeness are all operational concerns. And we have to make sure we deliver against those for our customers. >> I get it. I mean, the storage admins job is thankless, but the same time, you know, if your main expertise is managing LUNs, your growth path is limited. So they, they want to transform. They want to modernize their own careers. >> I love that. >> It's true. Right? I mean it's- >> Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, if you're a storage administrator today, understanding the storage portfolio that AWS delivers will allow you, and it will enable you empower you to be a cloud storage administrator. So you have no worry because you're, let's take FSX for ONTAP. You will take the skills that you've developed and honed over years and directly apply them to the workloads that you will bring to the Cloud. Using the same CLIs, The same APIs, the same consoles, the same capabilities. >> Plus you mentioned you guys announced, you talked about AWS backup services today, announced some stuff there. I see security governance, backup, identity access management, and governance. These are all adjacency. So if you're a, if you're a cloud storage administrator, you now are going to expand your scope of operations. You, you know, you're not going to be a security, Wiz overnight by any means, but you're now part of that, that rubric. And you're going to participate in that opportunity and learn some things and advance your career. I want to ask you, before we run out of time, you talked about agility and cost optimization, and it's kind of the yin and the yang of Cloud, if you will. But how are these seemingly conflicting forces in sync in your view. >> Like many things in life, right? [Wayne Laughs] >> We're going to get a little spiritually. >> We might get a little philosophical here. [Dave Laughs] >> You know, cloud announced, we've talked about two paths and in part of the two paths is enabling you to move quickly and be agile in how you move to the Cloud. Once you are on the Cloud, we have the ability through all of the service integrations that we have. In your ability to see exactly what's happening at every moment, to then cost optimize, to modernize, to cost optimize, to improve on the applications and workloads and data sets that you've brought. So this becomes a flywheel cost optimization allows you to reinvest, reinvest, be more agile, more innovative, which again, returns a value to your business and value to your customers. It's a flywheel effect. >> Yeah. It's kind of that gain sharing. Right? >> It is. >> And, you know, it's harder to do that in a, in an on-prem world, which everything is kind of, okay, it's working. Now boom, make it static. Oh, I want to bring in this capability or this, you know, AI. And then there's an integration challenge >> That's true. >> Going on. Not, not that there's, you know, there's differences in, APIs. But that's, to me is the opportunity to build on top of it. I just, again, talking to my line, I remember Andy Jassy saying, Hey, we purposefully have created our services at a really atomic level so that we can get down to the primitives and change as the market changes. To me, that's an opportunity for builders to create abstraction layers on top of that, you know, you've kind of, Amazon has kind of resisted that over the years, but, but almost on purpose. There's some of that now going on specialization and maybe certain industry solutions, but in general, your philosophy is to maintain that agility at the really granular level. >> It is, you know, we go back a long way. And as you said, I've built a lot of boxes and I'm proud of a lot of the boxes I've built, but a box is still a box, right? You have constraints. And when you innovate and build on the Cloud, when you move to the Cloud, you do not have those constraints, right? You have the agility, you can stand up a file system in three seconds, you can grow it and shrink it whenever you want. And you can delete it, get rid of it whenever you want back it up and then delete it. You don't have to worry about your infrastructure. You don't have to worry about is it going to be there in three months? It will be there in three seconds. So the agility of each of these services, the unique elements of all of these services allow you to capitalize on their value, use what you need and stop using it when you don't, and you don't have the same capabilities when you use more traditional products. >> So when you're designing a box, how is your mindset different than when you're designing a service? >> Well. You have physical constraints. You have to worry about the physical resources on that device for the life of that device, which is years. Think about what changes in three or five years. Think about the last two years alone and what's changed. Can you imagine having been constrained by only having boxes available to you during this last two years versus having the Cloud and being able to expand or contract based on your business needs, that would be really tough, right? And it has been tough. And that's why we've seen customers for every industry accelerate their use of the Cloud during these last two years. >> So I get that. So what's your mindset when you're building storage services and data services. >> So. Each of the surfaces that we have in object block file, movement services, data services, each of them provides very specific customer value and each are deeply integrated with the rest of AWS, so that when you need object services, you start using them. The integrations come along with you. When, if you're using traditional block, we talked about EBS io2 Block Express. When you're using file, just the example alone today with ONTAP, you know, you get to use what you need when you need it, and the way that you're used to using it without any concerns. >> (Dave mumbles) So your mindset is how do I exploit all these other services? You're like the chef and these are ingredients that you can tap and give a path to your customers to explore it over time. >> Yeah. Traditionally, for instance, if you were to have a filer, you would run multiple applications on that filer you're worried about. Cause you should, as a storage administrator, will each of those applications have the right amount of resources to run at peak. When you're on the Cloud, each of those applications will just spin up in seconds, their own file system. And those file systems can grow and shrink at whatever, however they need to do so. And you don't have to worry about one application interfering with the other application. It's not your concern anymore. And it's not really that fun to do. Anyway. It's kind of the hard work that nobody really you know, really wants to reward you for. So you can take your time and apply it to more business generate, you know, value for your business. >> That's great. Thank you for that. Okay. I'll I'll give you the last word. Give us the bumper sticker on AWS Storage day. Exciting day. The third AWS storage day. You guys keep getting bigger, raising the bar. >> And we're happy to keep doing it with you. >> Awesome. >> So thank you for flying out from Boston to see me. >> Pleasure, >> As they say. >> So, you know, this is a great opportunity for us to talk to customers, to thank them. It's a privilege to build what we build for customers. You know, our customers are leaders in their organizations and their businesses for their customers. And what we want to do is help them continue to be leaders and help them to continue to build and deliver we're here for them. >> Wayne. It's great to see you again. Thanks so much. >> Thanks. >> Maybe see you back at home. >> All right. Go Sox. All right. Yeah, go Sox. [Wayne Laughs] All right. Thank you for watching everybody. Back to Jenna Canal and Darko in the studio. Its Dave Volante. You're watching theCube. [Outro Music]

(upbeat music) Developers have become the new king makers in the world of digital and cloud. The rise of containers and microservices has accelerated the transition to cloud native applications. A lot of people will talk about application architecture and the related paradigms and the benefits they bring for the process of writing and delivering new apps. But a major challenge continues to be, the how and the what when it comes to accessing, processing and getting insights from the massive amounts of data that we have to deal with in today's world. And with me are two experts from the data management world who will share with us how they think about the best techniques and practices based on what they see at large organizations who are working with data and developing so-called data-driven apps. Please welcome Maria Colgan and Gerald Venzl, two distinguish product managers from Oracle. Folks, welcome, thanks so much for coming on. >> Thanks for having us Dave. >> Thank you very much for having us. >> Okay, Maria let's start with you. So, we throw around this term data-driven, data-driven applications. What are we really talking about there? >> So data-driven applications are applications that work on a diverse set of data. So anything from spatial to sensor data, document data as well as your usual transaction processing data. And what they're going to do is they'll generate value from that data in very different ways to a traditional application. So for example, they may use machine learning, they are able to do product recommendations in the middle of a transaction. Or we could use graph to be able to identify an influencer within the community so we can target them with a specific promotion. It could also use spatial data to be able to help find the nearest stores to a particular customer. And because these apps are deployed on multiple platforms, everything from mobile devices as well as standard browsers, they need a data platform that's going to be both secure, reliable and scalable. >> Well, so when you think about how the workloads are shifting I mean, we're not talking about, you know it's not anymore a world of just your ERP or your HCM or your CRM, you know kind of the traditional operational systems. You really are seeing an explosion of these new data oriented apps. You're seeing, you know, modeling in the cloud, you are going to see more and more inferencing, inferencing at the edge. But Maria maybe you could talk a little bit about sort of the benefits that customers are seeing from developing these types of applications. I mean, why should people care about data-driven apps? >> Oh, for sure, there's massive benefits to them. I mean, probably the most obvious one for any business regardless of the industry, is that they not only allow you to understand what your customers are up to, but they allow you to be able to anticipate those customer's needs. So that helps businesses maintain that competitive edge and retain their customers. But it also helps them make data-driven decisions in real time based on actual data rather than on somebody's gut feeling or basing those decisions on historical data. So for example, you can do real-time price adjustments on products based on demand and so forth, that kind of thing. So it really changes the way people do business today. >> So Gerald, you think about the narrative in the industry everybody wants to be a platform player all your customers they are becoming software companies, they are becoming platform players. Everybody wants to be like, you know name a company that is huge trillion dollar market cap or whatever, and those are data-driven companies. And so it would seem to me that data-driven applications, there's nobody, no company really shouldn't be data-driven. Do you buy that? >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, data-driven, and that naturally the whole industry is data-driven, right? It's like we all have information technologies about processing data and deriving information out of it. But when it comes to app development I think there is a big push to kind of like we have to do machine learning in our applications, we have to get insights from data. And when you actually look back a bit and take a step back, you see that there's of course many different kinds of applications out there as well that's not to be forgotten, right? So there is a usual front end user interfaces where really the application all it does is just entering some piece of information that's stored somewhere or perhaps a microservice that's not attached to a data to you at all but just receives or asks calls (indistinct). So I think it's not necessarily so important for every developer to kind of go on a bandwagon that they have to be data-driven. But I think it's equally important for those applications and those developers that build applications, that drive the business, that make business critical decisions as Maria mentioned before. Those guys should take really a close look into what data-driven apps means and what the data to you can actually give to them. Because what we see also happening a lot is that a lot of the things that are well known and out there just ready to use are being reimplemented in the applications. And for those applications, they essentially just ended up spending more time writing codes that will be already there and then have to maintain and debug the code as well rather than just going to market faster. >> Gerald can you talk to the prevailing approaches that developers take to build data-driven applications? What are the ones that you see? Let's dig into that a little bit more and maybe differentiate the different approaches and talk about that? >> Yeah, absolutely. I think right now the industry is like in two camps, it's like sort of a religious war going on that you'll see often happening with different architectures and so forth going on. So we have single purpose databases or data management technologies. Which are technologies that are as the name suggests build around a single purpose. So it's like, you know a typical example would be your ordinary key-value store. And a key-value store all it does is it allows you to store and retrieve a piece of data whatever that may be really, really fast but it doesn't really go beyond that. And then the other side of the house or the other camp would be multimodal databases, multimodal data management technologies. Those are technologies that allow you to store different types of data, different formats of data in the same technology in the same system alongside. And, you know, when you look at the geographics out there of what we have from technology, is pretty much any relational database or any database really has evolved into such a multimodal database. Whether that's MySQL that allows you to store or chase them alongside relational or even a MongoDB that allows you to do or gives you native graph support since (mumbles) and as well alongside the adjacent support. >> Well, it's clearly a trend in the industry. We've talked about this a lot in The Cube. We know where Oracle stands on this. I mean, you just mentioned MySQL but I mean, Oracle Databases you've been extending, you've mentioned JSON, we've got blockchain now in there you're infusing, you know ML and AI into the database, graph database capabilities, you know on and on and on. We talked a lot about we compared that to Amazon which is kind of the right tool, the right job approach. So maybe you could talk about, you know, your point of view, the benefits for developers of using that converged database if I can use that word approach being able to store multiple data formats? Why do you feel like that's a better approach? >> Yeah, I think on a high level it comes down to complexity. You are actually avoiding additional complexity, right? So not every use case that you have necessarily warrants to have yet another data management technology or yet the special build technology for managing that data, right? It's like many use cases that we see out there happily want to just store a piece of a chase and document, a piece of chase in a database and then perhaps retrieve it again afterwards so write some simple queries over it. And you really don't have to get a new database technology or a NoSQL database into the mix if you already have some to just fulfill that exact use case. You could just happily store that information as well in the database you already have. And what it really comes down to is the learning curve for developers, right? So it's like, as you use the same technology to store other types of data, you don't have to learn a new technology, you don't have to associate yourself with new and learn new drivers. You don't have to find new frameworks and you don't have to know how to necessarily operate or best model your data for that database. You can essentially just reuse your knowledge of the technology as well as the libraries and code you have already built in house perhaps in another application, perhaps, you know framework that you used against the same technology because it is still the same technology. So, kind of all comes down again to avoiding complexity rather than not fragmenting you know, the many different technologies we have. If you were to look at the different data formats that are out there today it's like, you know, you would end up with many different databases just to store them if you were to fully religiously follow the single purpose best built technology for every use case paradigm, right? And then you would just end up having to manage many different databases more than actually focusing on your app and getting value to your business or to your user. >> Okay, so I get that and I buy that by the way. I mean, especially if you're a larger organization and you've got all these projects going on but before we go back to Maria, Gerald, I want to just, I want to push on that a little bit. Because the counter to that argument would be in the analogy. And I wonder if you, I'd love for you to, you know knock this analogy off the blocks. The counter would be okay, Oracle is the Swiss Army knife and it's got, you know, all in one. But sometimes I need that specialized long screwdriver and I go into my toolbox and I grab that. It's better than the screwdriver in my Swiss Army knife. Why, are you the Swiss Army knife of databases? Or are you the all-in-one have that best of breed screwdriver for me? How do you think about that? >> Yeah, that's a fantastic question, right? And I think it's first of all, you have to separate between Oracle the company that has actually multiple data management technologies and databases out there as you said before, right? And Oracle Database. And I think Oracle Database is definitely a Swiss Army knife has many capabilities of since the last 40 years, you know that we've seen object support coming that's still in the Oracle Database today. We have seen XML coming, it's still in the Oracle Database, graph, spatial, et cetera. And so you have many different ways of managing your data and then on top of that going into the converge, not only do we allow you to store the different data model in there but we actually allow you also to, you apply all the security policies and so forth on top of it something Maria can talk more about the mission around converged database. I would also argue though that for some aspects, we do actually have to or add a screwdriver that you talked about as well. So especially in the relational world people get very quickly hung up on this idea that, oh, if you only do rows and columns, well, that's kind of what you put down on disk. And that was never true, it's the relational model is actually a logical model. What's probably being put down on disk is blocks that align themselves nice with block storage and always has been. So that allows you to actually model and process the data sort of differently. And one common example or one good example that we have that we introduced a couple of years ago was when, column and databases were very strong and you know, the competition came it's like, yeah, we have In-Memory column that stores now they're so much better. And we were like, well, orienting the data role-based or column-based really doesn't matter in the sense that we store them as blocks on disks. And so we introduced the in memory technology which gives you an In-Memory column, a representation of your data as well alongside your relational. So there is an example where you go like, well, actually you know, if you have this use case of the column or analytics all In-Memory, I would argue Oracle Database is also that screwdriver you want to go down to and gives you that capability. Because not only gives you representation in columnar, but also which many people then forget all the analytic power on top of SQL. It's one thing to store your data columnar, it's a completely different story to actually be able to run analytics on top of that and having all the built-in functionalities and stuff that you want to do with the data on top of it as you analyze it. >> You know, that's a great example, the kilometer 'cause I remember there was like a lot of hype around it. Oh, it's the Oracle killer, you know, at Vertica. Vertica is still around but, you know it never really hit escape velocity. But you know, good product, good company, whatever. Natezza, it kind of got buried inside of IBM. ParXL kind of became, you know, red shift with that deal so that kind of went away. Teradata bought a company, I forget which company it bought but. So that hype kind of disapated and now it's like, oh yeah, columnar. It's kind of like In-Memory, we've had a In-Memory databases ever since we've had databases you know, it's a kind of a feature not a sector. But anyway, Maria, let's come back to you. You've got a lot of customer experience. And you speak with a lot of companies, you know during your time at Oracle. What else are you seeing in terms of the benefits to this approach that might not be so intuitive and obvious right away? >> I think one of the biggest benefits to having a multimodel multiworkload or as we call it a converged database, is the fact that you can get greater data synergy from it. In other words, you can utilize all these different techniques and data models to get better value out of that data. So things like being able to do real-time machine learning, fraud detection inside a transaction or being able to do a product recommendation by accessing three different data models. So for example, if I'm trying to recommend a product for you Dave, I might use graph analytics to be able to figure out your community. Not just your friends, but other people on our system who look and behave just like you. Once I know that community then I can go over and see what products they bought by looking up our product catalog which may be stored as JSON. And then on top of that I can then see using the key-value what products inside that catalog those community members gave a five star rating to. So that way I can really pinpoint the right product for you. And I can do all of that in one transaction inside the database without having to transform that data into different models or God forbid, access different systems to be able to get all of that information. So it really simplifies how we can generate that value from the data. And of course, the other thing our customers love is when it comes to deploying data-driven apps, when you do it on a converged database it's much simpler because it is that standard data platform. So you're not having to manage multiple independent single purpose databases. You're not having to implement the security and the high availability policies, you know across a bunch of different diverse platforms. All of that can be done much simpler with a converged database 'cause the DBA team of course, is going to just use that standard set of tools to manage, monitor and secure those systems. >> Thank you for that. And you know, it's interesting, you talk about simplification and you are in Juan's organization so you've big focus on mission critical. And so one of the things that I think is often overlooked well, we talk about all the time is recovery. And if things are simpler, recovery is faster and easier. And so it's kind of the hallmark of Oracle is like the gold standard of the toughest apps, the most mission critical apps. But I wanted to get to the cloud Maria. So because everything is going to the cloud, right? Not all workloads are going to the cloud but everybody is talking about the cloud. Everybody has cloud first mentality and so yes, it's a hybrid world. But the natural next question is how do you think the cloud fits into this world of data-driven apps? >> I think just like any app that you're developing, the cloud helps to accelerate that development. And of course the deployment of these data-driven applications. 'Cause if you think about it, the developer is instantly able to provision a converged database that Oracle will automatically manage and look after for them. But what's great about doing something like that if you use like our autonomous database service is that it comes in different flavors. So you can get autonomous transaction processing, data warehousing or autonomous JSON so that the developer is going to get a database that's been optimized for their specific use case, whatever they are trying to solve. And it's also going to contain all of that great functionality and capabilities that we've been talking about. So what that really means to the developer though is as the project evolves and inevitably the business needs change a little, there's no need to panic when one of those changes comes in because your converged database or your autonomous database has all of those additional capabilities. So you can simply utilize those to able to address those evolving changes in the project. 'Cause let's face it, none of us normally know exactly what we need to build right at the very beginning. And on top of that they also kind of get a built-in buddy in the cloud, especially in the autonomous database. And that buddy comes in the form of built-in workload optimizations. So with the autonomous database we do things like automatic indexing where we're using machine learning to be that buddy for the developer. So what it'll do is it'll monitor the workload and see what kind of queries are being run on that system. And then it will actually determine if there are indexes that should be built to help improve the performance of that application. And not only does it bill those indexes but it verifies that they help improve the performance before publishing it to the application. So by the time the developer is finished with that app and it's ready to be deployed, it's actually also been optimized by the developers buddy, the Oracle autonomous database. So, you know, it's a really nice helping hand for developers when they're building any app especially data-driven apps. >> I like how you sort of gave us, you know the truth here is you don't always know where you're going when you're building an app. It's like it goes from you are trying to build it and they will come to start building it and we'll figure out where it's going to go. With Agile that's kind of how it works. But so I wonder, can you give some examples of maybe customers or maybe genericize them if you need to. Data-driven apps in the cloud where customers were able to drive more efficiency, where the cloud buddy allowed the customers to do more with less? >> No, we have tons of these but I'll try and keep it to just a couple. One that comes to mind straight away is retrace. These folks built a blockchain app in the Oracle Cloud that allows manufacturers to actually share the supply chain with the consumer. So the consumer can see exactly, who made their product? Using what raw materials? Where they were sourced from? How it was done? All of that is visible to the consumer. And in order to be able to share that they had to work on a very diverse set of data. So they had everything from JSON documents to images as well as your traditional transactions in there. And they store all of that information inside the Oracle autonomous database, they were able to build their app and deploy it on the cloud. And they were able to do all of that very, very quickly. So, you know, that ability to work on multiple different data types in a single database really helped them build that product and get it to market in a very short amount of time. Another customer that's doing something really, really interesting is MindSense. So these guys operate the largest mines in Canada, Chile, and Peru. But what they do is they put these x-ray devices on the massive mechanical shovels that are at the cove or at the mine face. And what that does is it senses the contents of the buckets inside these mining machines. And it's looking to see at that content, to see how it can optimize the processing of the ore inside in that bucket. So they're looking to minimize the amount of power and water that it's going to take to process that. And also of course, minimize the amount of waste that's going to come out of that project. So all of that sensor data is sent into an autonomous database where it's going to be processed by a whole host of different users. So everything from the mine engineers to the geo scientists, to even their own data scientists utilize that data to drive their business forward. And what I love about these guys is they're not happy with building just one app. MindSense actually use our built-in low core development environment, APEX that comes as part of the autonomous database and they actually produce applications constantly for different aspects of their business using that technology. And it's actually able to accelerate those new apps to the business. It takes them now just a couple of days or weeks to produce an app instead of months or years to build those new apps. >> Great, thank you for that Maria. Gerald, I'm going to push you again. So, I said upfront and talked about microservices and the cloud and containers and you know, anybody in the developer space follows that very closely. But some of the things that we've been talking about here people might look at that and say, well, they're kind of antithetical to microservices. This is our Oracles monolithic approach. But when you think about the benefits of microservices, people want freedom of choice, technology choice, seen as a big advantage of microservices and containers. How do you address such an argument? >> Yeah, that's an excellent question and I get that quite often. The microservices architecture in general as I said before had architectures, Linux distributions, et cetera. It's kind of always a bit of like there's an academic approach and there's a pragmatic approach. And when you look at the microservices the original definitions that came out at the early 2010s. They actually never said that each microservice has to have a database. And they also never said that if a microservice has a database, you have to use a different technology for each microservice. Just like they never said, you have to write a microservice in a different programming language, right? So where I'm going with this is like, yes you know, sometimes when you look at some vendors out there, some niche players, they push this message or they jump on this academic approach of like each microservice has the best tool at hand or I'd use a different database for your purpose, et cetera. Which almost often comes across like us. You know, we want to stay part of the conversation. Nothing stops a developer from, you know using a multimodal database for the microservice and just using that as a document store, right? Or just using that as a relational database. And, you know, sometimes I mean, it was actually something that happened that was really interesting yesterday I don't know whether you follow Dave or not. But Facebook had an outage yesterday, right? And Facebook is one of those companies that are seen as the Silicon Valley, you know know how to do microservices companies. And when you add through the outage, well, what happened, right? Some unfortunate logical error with configuration as a force that took a database cluster down. So, you know, there you have it where you go like, well, maybe not every microservice is actually in fact talking to its own database or its own special purpose database. I think there, you know, well, what we should, the industry should be focusing much more on this argument of which technology to use? What's the right tool for a job? Is more to ask themselves, what business problem actually are we trying to solve? And therefore what's the right approach and the right technology for this. And so therefore, just as I said before, you know multimodal databases they do have strong benefits. They have many built-in functionalities that are already there and they allow you to reduce this complexity of having to know many different technologies, right? And so it's not only to store different data models either you know, treat a multimodal database as a chasing documents store or a relational database but most databases are multimodal since 20 plus years. But it's also actually being able to perhaps if you store that data together, you can perhaps actually derive additional value for somebody else but perhaps not for your application. But like for example, if you were to use Oracle Database you can actually write queries on top of all of that data. It doesn't really matter for our query engine whether it's the data is format that then chase or the data is formatted in rows and columns you can just rather than query over it. And that's actually very powerful for those guys that have to, you know get the reporting done the end of the day, the end of the week. And for those guys that are the data scientists that they want to figure out, you know which product performed really well or can we tweak something here and there. When you look into that space you still see a huge divergence between the guys to put data in kind of the altarpiece style and guys that try to derive new insights. And there's still a lot of ETL going around and, you know we have big data technologies that some of them come and went and some of them came in that are still around like Apache Spark which is still like a SQL engine on top of any of your data kind of going back to the same concept. And so I will say that, you know, for developers when we look at microservices it's like, first of all, is the argument you were making because the vendor or the technology you want to use tells you this argument or, you know, you kind of want to have an argument to use a specific technology? Or is it really more because it is the best technology, to best use for this given use case for this given application that you have? And if so there's of course, also nothing wrong to use a single purpose technology either, right? >> Yeah, I mean, whenever I talk about Oracle I always come back to the most important applications, the mission critical. It's very difficult to architect databases with microservices and containers. You have to be really, really careful. And so and again, it comes back to what we were talking before about with Maria that the complexity and the recovery. But Gerald I want to stay with you for a minute. So there's other data management technologies popping out there. I mean, I've seen some people saying, okay just leave the data in an S3 bucket. We can query that, then we've got some magic sauce to do that. And so why are you optimistic about you know, traditional database technology going forward? >> I would say because of the history of databases. So one thing that once struck me when I came to Oracle and then got to meet great people like Juan Luis and Andy Mendelsohn who had been here for a long, long time. I come to realization that relational databases are around for about 45 years now. And, you know, I was like, I'm too young to have been around then, right? So I was like, what else was around 45 years? It's like just the tech stack that we have today. It's like, how does this look like? Well, Linux only came out in 93. Well, databases pre-date Linux a lot rather than as I started digging I saw a lot of technologies come and go, right? And you mentioned before like the technologies that data management systems that we had that came and went like the columnar databases or XML databases, object databases. And even before relational databases before Cot gave us the relational model there were apparently these networks stores network databases which to some extent look very similar to adjacent documents. There wasn't a harder storing data and a hierarchy to format. And, you know when you then start actually reading the Cot paper and diving a little bit more into the relation model, that's I think one important crux in there that most of the industry keeps forgetting or it hasn't been around to even know. And that is that when Cot created the relational model, he actually focused not so much on the application putting the data in, but on future users and applications still being able to making sense out of the data, right? And that's kind of like I said before we had those network models, we had XML databases you have adjacent documents stores. And the one thing that they all have along with it is like the application that puts the data in decides the structure of the data. And that's all well and good if you had an application of the developer writing an application. It can become really tricky when 10 years later you still want to look at that data and the application that the developer is no longer around then you go like, what does this all mean? Where is the structure defined? What is this attribute? What does it mean? How does it correlate to others? And the one thing that people tend to forget is that it's actually the data that's here to stay not someone who does the applications where it is. Ideally, every company wants to store every single byte of data that they have because there might be future value in it. Economically may not make sense that's now much more feasible than just years ago. But if you could, why wouldn't you want to store all your data, right? And sometimes you actually have to store the data for seven years or whatever because the laws require you to. And so coming back then and you know, like 10 years from now and looking at the data and going like making sense of that data can actually become a lot more difficult and a lot more challenging than having to first figure out and how we store this data for general use. And that kind of was what the relational model was all about. We decompose the data structures into tables and columns with relationships amongst each other so therefore between each other. So that therefore if somebody wants to, you know typical example would be well you store some purchases from your web store, right? There's a customer attribute in it. There's some credit card payment information in it, just some product information on what the customer bought. Well, in the relational model if you just want to figure out which products were sold on a given day or week, you just would query the payment and products table to get the sense out of it. You don't need to touch the customer and so forth. And with the hierarchical model you have to first sit down and understand how is the structure, what is the customer? Where is the payment? You know, does the document start with the payment or does it start with the customer? Where do I find this information? And then in the very early days those databases even struggled to then not having to scan all the documents to get the data out. So coming back to your question a bit, I apologize for going on here. But you know, it's like relational databases have been around for 45 years. I actually argue it's one of the most successful software technologies that we have out there when you look in the overall industry, right? 45 years is like, in IT terms it's like from a star being the ones who are going supernova. You have said it before that many technologies coming and went, right? And just want to add a more really interesting example by the way is Hadoop and HDFS, right? They kind of gave us this additional promise of like, you know, the 2010s like 2012, 2013 the hype of Hadoop and so forth and (mumbles) and HDFS. And people are just like, just put everything into HDFS and worry about the data later, right? And we can query it and map reduce it and whatever. And we had customers actually coming to us they were like, great we have half a petabyte of data on an HDFS cluster and we have no clue what's stored in there. How do we figure this out? What are we going to do now? Now you had a big data cleansing problem. And so I think that is why databases and also data modeling is something that will not go away anytime soon. And I think databases and database technologies are here for quite a while to stay. Because many of those are people they don't think about what's happening to the data five years from now. And many of the niche players also and also frankly even Amazon you know, following with this single purpose thing is like, just use the right tool for the job for your application, right? Just pull in the data there the way you wanted. And it's like, okay, so you use technologies all over the place and then five years from now you have your data fragmented everywhere in different formats and, you know inconsistencies, and, and, and. And those are usually when you come back to this data-driven business critical business decision applications the worst case scenario you can have, right? Because now you need an army of people to actually do data cleansing. And there's not a coincidence that data science has become very, very popular the last recent years as we kind of went on with this proliferation of different database or data management technologies some of those are not even database. But I think I leave it at that. >> It's an interesting talk track because you're right. I mean, no schema on right was alluring, but it definitely created some problems. It also created an entire, you know you referenced the hyper specialized roles and did the data cleansing component. I mean, maybe technology will eventually solve that problem but it hasn't up at least up tonight. Okay, last question, Maria maybe you could start off and Gerald if you want to chime in as well it'd be great. I mean, it's interesting to watch this industry when Oracle sort of won the top database mantle. I mean, I watched it, I saw it. It was, remember it was Informix and it was (indistinct) too and of course, Microsoft you got to give them credit with SQL server, but Oracle won the database wars. And then everything got kind of quiet for awhile database was sort of boring. And then it exploded, you know, all the, you know not only SQL and the key-value stores and the cloud databases and this is really a hot area now. And when we looked at Oracle we said, okay, Oracle it's all about Oracle Database, but we've seen the kind of resurgence in MySQL which everybody thought, you know once Oracle bought Sun they were going to kill MySQL. But now we see you investing in HeatWave, TimesTen, we talked about In-Memory databases before. So where do those fit in Maria in the grand scheme? How should we think about Oracle's database portfolio? >> So there's lots of places where you'd use those different things. 'Cause just like any other industry there are going to be new and boutique use cases that are going to benefit from a more specialized product or single purpose product. So good examples off the top of my head of the kind of systems that would benefit from that would be things like a stock exchange system or a telephone exchange system. Both of those are latency critical transaction processing applications where they need microsecond response times. And that's going to exceed perhaps what you might normally get or deploy with a converged database. And so Oracle's TimesTen database our In-Memory database is perfect for those kinds of applications. But there's also a host of MySQL applications out there today and you said it yourself there Dave, HeatWave is a great place to provision and deploy those kinds of applications because it's going to run 100 times faster than AWS (mumbles). So, you know, there really is a place in the market and in our customer's systems and the needs they have for all of these different members of our database family here at Oracle. >> Yeah, well, the internet is basically running in the lamp stack so I see MySQL going away. All right Gerald, will give you the final word, bring us home. >> Oh, thank you very much. Yeah, I mean, as Maria said, I think it comes back to what we discussed before. There is obviously still needs for special technologies or different technologies than a relational database or multimodal database. Oracle has actually many more databases that people may first think of. Not only the three that we have already mentioned but there's even SP so the Oracle's NoSQL database. And, you know, on a high level Oracle is a data management company, right? And we want to give our customers the best tools and the best technology to manage all of their data. Rather than therefore there has to be a need or there should be a part of the business that also focuses on this highly specialized systems and this highly specialized technologies that address those use cases. And I think it makes perfect sense. It's like, you know, when the customer comes to Oracle they're not only getting this, take this one product you know, and if you don't like it your problem but actually you have choice, right? And choice allows you to make a decision based on what's best for you and not necessarily best for the vendor you're talking to. >> Well guys, really appreciate your time today and your insights. Maria, Gerald, thanks so much for coming on The Cube. >> Thank you very much for having us. >> And thanks for watching this Cube conversation this is Dave Vellante and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> It'll be five, four, three and then silent two, one, and then you guys just follow my lead. We're just making some last minute adjustments. Like I said, we're down two hands today. So, you good Alex? Okay, are you guys ready? >> I'm ready. >> Ready. >> I got to get get one note here. >> So I noticed Maria you stopped anyway, so I have time. >> Just so they know Dave and the Boston Studio, are they both kind of concurrently be on film even when they're not speaking or will only the speaker be on film for like if Gerald's drawing while Maria is talking about-- >> Sorry but then I missed one part of my onboarding spiel. There should be, if you go into gallery there should be a label. There should be something labeled Boston live switch feed. If you pin that gallery view you'll see what our program currently being recorded is. So any time you don't see yourself on that feed is an excellent time to take a drink of water, scratch your nose, check your notes. Do whatever you got to do off screen. >> Can you give us a three shot, Alex? >> Yes, there it is. >> And then go to me, just give me a one-shot to Dave. So when I'm here you guys can take a drink or whatever >> That makes sense? >> Yeah. >> Excellent, I will get my recordings restarted and we'll open up when Dave's ready. >> All right, you guys ready? >> Ready. >> All right Steve, you go on mute. >> Okay, on me in 5, 4, 3. Developers have become the new king makers in the world of digital and cloud. The rise of containers and microservices has accelerated the transition to cloud native applications. A lot of people will talk about application architecture and the related paradigms and the benefits they bring for the process of writing and delivering new apps. But a major challenge continues to be, the how and the what when it comes to accessing, processing and getting insights from the massive amounts of data that we have to deal with in today's world. And with me are two experts from the data management world who will share with us how they think about the best techniques and practices based on what they see at large organizations who are working with data and developing so-called data-driven apps. Please welcome Maria Colgan and Gerald Venzl, two distinguish product managers from Oracle. Folks, welcome, thanks so much for coming on. >> Thanks for having us Dave. >> Thank you very much for having us. >> Okay, Maria let's start with you. So, we throw around this term data-driven, data-driven applications. What are we really talking about there? >> So data-driven applications are applications that work on a diverse set of data. So anything from spatial to sensor data, document data as well as your usual transaction processing data. And what they're going to do is they'll generate value from that data in very different ways to a traditional application. So for example, they may use machine learning, they are able to do product recommendations in the middle of a transaction. Or we could use graph to be able to identify an influencer within the community so we can target them with a specific promotion. It could also use spatial data to be able to help find the nearest stores to a particular customer. And because these apps are deployed on multiple platforms, everything from mobile devices as well as standard browsers, they need a data platform that's going to be both secure, reliable and scalable. >> Well, so when you think about how the workloads are shifting I mean, we're not talking about, you know it's not anymore a world of just your ERP or your HCM or your CRM, you know kind of the traditional operational systems. You really are seeing an explosion of these new data oriented apps. You're seeing, you know, modeling in the cloud, you are going to see more and more inferencing, inferencing at the edge. But Maria maybe you could talk a little bit about sort of the benefits that customers are seeing from developing these types of applications. I mean, why should people care about data-driven apps? >> Oh, for sure, there's massive benefits to them. I mean, probably the most obvious one for any business regardless of the industry, is that they not only allow you to understand what your customers are up to, but they allow you to be able to anticipate those customer's needs. So that helps businesses maintain that competitive edge and retain their customers. But it also helps them make data-driven decisions in real time based on actual data rather than on somebody's gut feeling or basing those decisions on historical data. So for example, you can do real-time price adjustments on products based on demand and so forth, that kind of thing. So it really changes the way people do business today. >> So Gerald, you think about the narrative in the industry everybody wants to be a platform player all your customers they are becoming software companies, they are becoming platform players. Everybody wants to be like, you know name a company that is huge trillion dollar market cap or whatever, and those are data-driven companies. And so it would seem to me that data-driven applications, there's nobody, no company really shouldn't be data-driven. Do you buy that? >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, data-driven, and that naturally the whole industry is data-driven, right? It's like we all have information technologies about processing data and deriving information out of it. But when it comes to app development I think there is a big push to kind of like we have to do machine learning in our applications, we have to get insights from data. And when you actually look back a bit and take a step back, you see that there's of course many different kinds of applications out there as well that's not to be forgotten, right? So there is a usual front end user interfaces where really the application all it does is just entering some piece of information that's stored somewhere or perhaps a microservice that's not attached to a data to you at all but just receives or asks calls (indistinct). So I think it's not necessarily so important for every developer to kind of go on a bandwagon that they have to be data-driven. But I think it's equally important for those applications and those developers that build applications, that drive the business, that make business critical decisions as Maria mentioned before. Those guys should take really a close look into what data-driven apps means and what the data to you can actually give to them. Because what we see also happening a lot is that a lot of the things that are well known and out there just ready to use are being reimplemented in the applications. And for those applications, they essentially just ended up spending more time writing codes that will be already there and then have to maintain and debug the code as well rather than just going to market faster. >> Gerald can you talk to the prevailing approaches that developers take to build data-driven applications? What are the ones that you see? Let's dig into that a little bit more and maybe differentiate the different approaches and talk about that? >> Yeah, absolutely. I think right now the industry is like in two camps, it's like sort of a religious war going on that you'll see often happening with different architectures and so forth going on. So we have single purpose databases or data management technologies. Which are technologies that are as the name suggests build around a single purpose. So it's like, you know a typical example would be your ordinary key-value store. And a key-value store all it does is it allows you to store and retrieve a piece of data whatever that may be really, really fast but it doesn't really go beyond that. And then the other side of the house or the other camp would be multimodal databases, multimodal data management technologies. Those are technologies that allow you to store different types of data, different formats of data in the same technology in the same system alongside. And, you know, when you look at the geographics out there of what we have from technology, is pretty much any relational database or any database really has evolved into such a multimodal database. Whether that's MySQL that allows you to store or chase them alongside relational or even a MongoDB that allows you to do or gives you native graph support since (mumbles) and as well alongside the adjacent support. >> Well, it's clearly a trend in the industry. We've talked about this a lot in The Cube. We know where Oracle stands on this. I mean, you just mentioned MySQL but I mean, Oracle Databases you've been extending, you've mentioned JSON, we've got blockchain now in there you're infusing, you know ML and AI into the database, graph database capabilities, you know on and on and on. We talked a lot about we compared that to Amazon which is kind of the right tool, the right job approach. So maybe you could talk about, you know, your point of view, the benefits for developers of using that converged database if I can use that word approach being able to store multiple data formats? Why do you feel like that's a better approach? >> Yeah, I think on a high level it comes down to complexity. You are actually avoiding additional complexity, right? So not every use case that you have necessarily warrants to have yet another data management technology or yet the special build technology for managing that data, right? It's like many use cases that we see out there happily want to just store a piece of a chase and document, a piece of chase in a database and then perhaps retrieve it again afterwards so write some simple queries over it. And you really don't have to get a new database technology or a NoSQL database into the mix if you already have some to just fulfill that exact use case. You could just happily store that information as well in the database you already have. And what it really comes down to is the learning curve for developers, right? So it's like, as you use the same technology to store other types of data, you don't have to learn a new technology, you don't have to associate yourself with new and learn new drivers. You don't have to find new frameworks and you don't have to know how to necessarily operate or best model your data for that database. You can essentially just reuse your knowledge of the technology as well as the libraries and code you have already built in house perhaps in another application, perhaps, you know framework that you used against the same technology because it is still the same technology. So, kind of all comes down again to avoiding complexity rather than not fragmenting you know, the many different technologies we have. If you were to look at the different data formats that are out there today it's like, you know, you would end up with many different databases just to store them if you were to fully religiously follow the single purpose best built technology for every use case paradigm, right? And then you would just end up having to manage many different databases more than actually focusing on your app and getting value to your business or to your user. >> Okay, so I get that and I buy that by the way. I mean, especially if you're a larger organization and you've got all these projects going on but before we go back to Maria, Gerald, I want to just, I want to push on that a little bit. Because the counter to that argument would be in the analogy. And I wonder if you, I'd love for you to, you know knock this analogy off the blocks. The counter would be okay, Oracle is the Swiss Army knife and it's got, you know, all in one. But sometimes I need that specialized long screwdriver and I go into my toolbox and I grab that. It's better than the screwdriver in my Swiss Army knife. Why, are you the Swiss Army knife of databases? Or are you the all-in-one have that best of breed screwdriver for me? How do you think about that? >> Yeah, that's a fantastic question, right? And I think it's first of all, you have to separate between Oracle the company that has actually multiple data management technologies and databases out there as you said before, right? And Oracle Database. And I think Oracle Database is definitely a Swiss Army knife has many capabilities of since the last 40 years, you know that we've seen object support coming that's still in the Oracle Database today. We have seen XML coming, it's still in the Oracle Database, graph, spatial, et cetera. And so you have many different ways of managing your data and then on top of that going into the converge, not only do we allow you to store the different data model in there but we actually allow you also to, you apply all the security policies and so forth on top of it something Maria can talk more about the mission around converged database. I would also argue though that for some aspects, we do actually have to or add a screwdriver that you talked about as well. So especially in the relational world people get very quickly hung up on this idea that, oh, if you only do rows and columns, well, that's kind of what you put down on disk. And that was never true, it's the relational model is actually a logical model. What's probably being put down on disk is blocks that align themselves nice with block storage and always has been. So that allows you to actually model and process the data sort of differently. And one common example or one good example that we have that we introduced a couple of years ago was when, column and databases were very strong and you know, the competition came it's like, yeah, we have In-Memory column that stores now they're so much better. And we were like, well, orienting the data role-based or column-based really doesn't matter in the sense that we store them as blocks on disks. And so we introduced the in memory technology which gives you an In-Memory column, a representation of your data as well alongside your relational. So there is an example where you go like, well, actually you know, if you have this use case of the column or analytics all In-Memory, I would argue Oracle Database is also that screwdriver you want to go down to and gives you that capability. Because not only gives you representation in columnar, but also which many people then forget all the analytic power on top of SQL. It's one thing to store your data columnar, it's a completely different story to actually be able to run analytics on top of that and having all the built-in functionalities and stuff that you want to do with the data on top of it as you analyze it. >> You know, that's a great example, the kilometer 'cause I remember there was like a lot of hype around it. Oh, it's the Oracle killer, you know, at Vertica. Vertica is still around but, you know it never really hit escape velocity. But you know, good product, good company, whatever. Natezza, it kind of got buried inside of IBM. ParXL kind of became, you know, red shift with that deal so that kind of went away. Teradata bought a company, I forget which company it bought but. So that hype kind of disapated and now it's like, oh yeah, columnar. It's kind of like In-Memory, we've had a In-Memory databases ever since we've had databases you know, it's a kind of a feature not a sector. But anyway, Maria, let's come back to you. You've got a lot of customer experience. And you speak with a lot of companies, you know during your time at Oracle. What else are you seeing in terms of the benefits to this approach that might not be so intuitive and obvious right away? >> I think one of the biggest benefits to having a multimodel multiworkload or as we call it a converged database, is the fact that you can get greater data synergy from it. In other words, you can utilize all these different techniques and data models to get better value out of that data. So things like being able to do real-time machine learning, fraud detection inside a transaction or being able to do a product recommendation by accessing three different data models. So for example, if I'm trying to recommend a product for you Dave, I might use graph analytics to be able to figure out your community. Not just your friends, but other people on our system who look and behave just like you. Once I know that community then I can go over and see what products they bought by looking up our product catalog which may be stored as JSON. And then on top of that I can then see using the key-value what products inside that catalog those community members gave a five star rating to. So that way I can really pinpoint the right product for you. And I can do all of that in one transaction inside the database without having to transform that data into different models or God forbid, access different systems to be able to get all of that information. So it really simplifies how we can generate that value from the data. And of course, the other thing our customers love is when it comes to deploying data-driven apps, when you do it on a converged database it's much simpler because it is that standard data platform. So you're not having to manage multiple independent single purpose databases. You're not having to implement the security and the high availability policies, you know across a bunch of different diverse platforms. All of that can be done much simpler with a converged database 'cause the DBA team of course, is going to just use that standard set of tools to manage, monitor and secure those systems. >> Thank you for that. And you know, it's interesting, you talk about simplification and you are in Juan's organization so you've big focus on mission critical. And so one of the things that I think is often overlooked well, we talk about all the time is recovery. And if things are simpler, recovery is faster and easier. And so it's kind of the hallmark of Oracle is like the gold standard of the toughest apps, the most mission critical apps. But I wanted to get to the cloud Maria. So because everything is going to the cloud, right? Not all workloads are going to the cloud but everybody is talking about the cloud. Everybody has cloud first mentality and so yes, it's a hybrid world. But the natural next question is how do you think the cloud fits into this world of data-driven apps? >> I think just like any app that you're developing, the cloud helps to accelerate that development. And of course the deployment of these data-driven applications. 'Cause if you think about it, the developer is instantly able to provision a converged database that Oracle will automatically manage and look after for them. But what's great about doing something like that if you use like our autonomous database service is that it comes in different flavors. So you can get autonomous transaction processing, data warehousing or autonomous JSON so that the developer is going to get a database that's been optimized for their specific use case, whatever they are trying to solve. And it's also going to contain all of that great functionality and capabilities that we've been talking about. So what that really means to the developer though is as the project evolves and inevitably the business needs change a little, there's no need to panic when one of those changes comes in because your converged database or your autonomous database has all of those additional capabilities. So you can simply utilize those to able to address those evolving changes in the project. 'Cause let's face it, none of us normally know exactly what we need to build right at the very beginning. And on top of that they also kind of get a built-in buddy in the cloud, especially in the autonomous database. And that buddy comes in the form of built-in workload optimizations. So with the autonomous database we do things like automatic indexing where we're using machine learning to be that buddy for the developer. So what it'll do is it'll monitor the workload and see what kind of queries are being run on that system. And then it will actually determine if there are indexes that should be built to help improve the performance of that application. And not only does it bill those indexes but it verifies that they help improve the performance before publishing it to the application. So by the time the developer is finished with that app and it's ready to be deployed, it's actually also been optimized by the developers buddy, the Oracle autonomous database. So, you know, it's a really nice helping hand for developers when they're building any app especially data-driven apps. >> I like how you sort of gave us, you know the truth here is you don't always know where you're going when you're building an app. It's like it goes from you are trying to build it and they will come to start building it and we'll figure out where it's going to go. With Agile that's kind of how it works. But so I wonder, can you give some examples of maybe customers or maybe genericize them if you need to. Data-driven apps in the cloud where customers were able to drive more efficiency, where the cloud buddy allowed the customers to do more with less? >> No, we have tons of these but I'll try and keep it to just a couple. One that comes to mind straight away is retrace. These folks built a blockchain app in the Oracle Cloud that allows manufacturers to actually share the supply chain with the consumer. So the consumer can see exactly, who made their product? Using what raw materials? Where they were sourced from? How it was done? All of that is visible to the consumer. And in order to be able to share that they had to work on a very diverse set of data. So they had everything from JSON documents to images as well as your traditional transactions in there. And they store all of that information inside the Oracle autonomous database, they were able to build their app and deploy it on the cloud. And they were able to do all of that very, very quickly. So, you know, that ability to work on multiple different data types in a single database really helped them build that product and get it to market in a very short amount of time. Another customer that's doing something really, really interesting is MindSense. So these guys operate the largest mines in Canada, Chile, and Peru. But what they do is they put these x-ray devices on the massive mechanical shovels that are at the cove or at the mine face. And what that does is it senses the contents of the buckets inside these mining machines. And it's looking to see at that content, to see how it can optimize the processing of the ore inside in that bucket. So they're looking to minimize the amount of power and water that it's going to take to process that. And also of course, minimize the amount of waste that's going to come out of that project. So all of that sensor data is sent into an autonomous database where it's going to be processed by a whole host of different users. So everything from the mine engineers to the geo scientists, to even their own data scientists utilize that data to drive their business forward. And what I love about these guys is they're not happy with building just one app. MindSense actually use our built-in low core development environment, APEX that comes as part of the autonomous database and they actually produce applications constantly for different aspects of their business using that technology. And it's actually able to accelerate those new apps to the business. It takes them now just a couple of days or weeks to produce an app instead of months or years to build those new apps. >> Great, thank you for that Maria. Gerald, I'm going to push you again. So, I said upfront and talked about microservices and the cloud and containers and you know, anybody in the developer space follows that very closely. But some of the things that we've been talking about here people might look at that and say, well, they're kind of antithetical to microservices. This is our Oracles monolithic approach. But when you think about the benefits of microservices, people want freedom of choice, technology choice, seen as a big advantage of microservices and containers. How do you address such an argument? >> Yeah, that's an excellent question and I get that quite often. The microservices architecture in general as I said before had architectures, Linux distributions, et cetera. It's kind of always a bit of like there's an academic approach and there's a pragmatic approach. And when you look at the microservices the original definitions that came out at the early 2010s. They actually never said that each microservice has to have a database. And they also never said that if a microservice has a database, you have to use a different technology for each microservice. Just like they never said, you have to write a microservice in a different programming language, right? So where I'm going with this is like, yes you know, sometimes when you look at some vendors out there, some niche players, they push this message or they jump on this academic approach of like each microservice has the best tool at hand or I'd use a different database for your purpose, et cetera. Which almost often comes across like us. You know, we want to stay part of the conversation. Nothing stops a developer from, you know using a multimodal database for the microservice and just using that as a document store, right? Or just using that as a relational database. And, you know, sometimes I mean, it was actually something that happened that was really interesting yesterday I don't know whether you follow Dave or not. But Facebook had an outage yesterday, right? And Facebook is one of those companies that are seen as the Silicon Valley, you know know how to do microservices companies. And when you add through the outage, well, what happened, right? Some unfortunate logical error with configuration as a force that took a database cluster down. So, you know, there you have it where you go like, well, maybe not every microservice is actually in fact talking to its own database or its own special purpose database. I think there, you know, well, what we should, the industry should be focusing much more on this argument of which technology to use? What's the right tool for a job? Is more to ask themselves, what business problem actually are we trying to solve? And therefore what's the right approach and the right technology for this. And so therefore, just as I said before, you know multimodal databases they do have strong benefits. They have many built-in functionalities that are already there and they allow you to reduce this complexity of having to know many different technologies, right? And so it's not only to store different data models either you know, treat a multimodal database as a chasing documents store or a relational database but most databases are multimodal since 20 plus years. But it's also actually being able to perhaps if you store that data together, you can perhaps actually derive additional value for somebody else but perhaps not for your application. But like for example, if you were to use Oracle Database you can actually write queries on top of all of that data. It doesn't really matter for our query engine whether it's the data is format that then chase or the data is formatted in rows and columns you can just rather than query over it. And that's actually very powerful for those guys that have to, you know get the reporting done the end of the day, the end of the week. And for those guys that are the data scientists that they want to figure out, you know which product performed really well or can we tweak something here and there. When you look into that space you still see a huge divergence between the guys to put data in kind of the altarpiece style and guys that try to derive new insights. And there's still a lot of ETL going around and, you know we have big data technologies that some of them come and went and some of them came in that are still around like Apache Spark which is still like a SQL engine on top of any of your data kind of going back to the same concept. And so I will say that, you know, for developers when we look at microservices it's like, first of all, is the argument you were making because the vendor or the technology you want to use tells you this argument or, you know, you kind of want to have an argument to use a specific technology? Or is it really more because it is the best technology, to best use for this given use case for this given application that you have? And if so there's of course, also nothing wrong to use a single purpose technology either, right? >> Yeah, I mean, whenever I talk about Oracle I always come back to the most important applications, the mission critical. It's very difficult to architect databases with microservices and containers. You have to be really, really careful. And so and again, it comes back to what we were talking before about with Maria that the complexity and the recovery. But Gerald I want to stay with you for a minute. So there's other data management technologies popping out there. I mean, I've seen some people saying, okay just leave the data in an S3 bucket. We can query that, then we've got some magic sauce to do that. And so why are you optimistic about you know, traditional database technology going forward? >> I would say because of the history of databases. So one thing that once struck me when I came to Oracle and then got to meet great people like Juan Luis and Andy Mendelsohn who had been here for a long, long time. I come to realization that relational databases are around for about 45 years now. And, you know, I was like, I'm too young to have been around then, right? So I was like, what else was around 45 years? It's like just the tech stack that we have today. It's like, how does this look like? Well, Linux only came out in 93. Well, databases pre-date Linux a lot rather than as I started digging I saw a lot of technologies come and go, right? And you mentioned before like the technologies that data management systems that we had that came and went like the columnar databases or XML databases, object databases. And even before relational databases before Cot gave us the relational model there were apparently these networks stores network databases which to some extent look very similar to adjacent documents. There wasn't a harder storing data and a hierarchy to format. And, you know when you then start actually reading the Cot paper and diving a little bit more into the relation model, that's I think one important crux in there that most of the industry keeps forgetting or it hasn't been around to even know. And that is that when Cot created the relational model, he actually focused not so much on the application putting the data in, but on future users and applications still being able to making sense out of the data, right? And that's kind of like I said before we had those network models, we had XML databases you have adjacent documents stores. And the one thing that they all have along with it is like the application that puts the data in decides the structure of the data. And that's all well and good if you had an application of the developer writing an application. It can become really tricky when 10 years later you still want to look at that data and the application that the developer is no longer around then you go like, what does this all mean? Where is the structure defined? What is this attribute? What does it mean? How does it correlate to others? And the one thing that people tend to forget is that it's actually the data that's here to stay not someone who does the applications where it is. Ideally, every company wants to store every single byte of data that they have because there might be future value in it. Economically may not make sense that's now much more feasible than just years ago. But if you could, why wouldn't you want to store all your data, right? And sometimes you actually have to store the data for seven years or whatever because the laws require you to. And so coming back then and you know, like 10 years from now and looking at the data and going like making sense of that data can actually become a lot more difficult and a lot more challenging than having to first figure out and how we store this data for general use. And that kind of was what the relational model was all about. We decompose the data structures into tables and columns with relationships amongst each other so therefore between each other. So that therefore if somebody wants to, you know typical example would be well you store some purchases from your web store, right? There's a customer attribute in it. There's some credit card payment information in it, just some product information on what the customer bought. Well, in the relational model if you just want to figure out which products were sold on a given day or week, you just would query the payment and products table to get the sense out of it. You don't need to touch the customer and so forth. And with the hierarchical model you have to first sit down and understand how is the structure, what is the customer? Where is the payment? You know, does the document start with the payment or does it start with the customer? Where do I find this information? And then in the very early days those databases even struggled to then not having to scan all the documents to get the data out. So coming back to your question a bit, I apologize for going on here. But you know, it's like relational databases have been around for 45 years. I actually argue it's one of the most successful software technologies that we have out there when you look in the overall industry, right? 45 years is like, in IT terms it's like from a star being the ones who are going supernova. You have said it before that many technologies coming and went, right? And just want to add a more really interesting example by the way is Hadoop and HDFS, right? They kind of gave us this additional promise of like, you know, the 2010s like 2012, 2013 the hype of Hadoop and so forth and (mumbles) and HDFS. And people are just like, just put everything into HDFS and worry about the data later, right? And we can query it and map reduce it and whatever. And we had customers actually coming to us they were like, great we have half a petabyte of data on an HDFS cluster and we have no clue what's stored in there. How do we figure this out? What are we going to do now? Now you had a big data cleansing problem. And so I think that is why databases and also data modeling is something that will not go away anytime soon. And I think databases and database technologies are here for quite a while to stay. Because many of those are people they don't think about what's happening to the data five years from now. And many of the niche players also and also frankly even Amazon you know, following with this single purpose thing is like, just use the right tool for the job for your application, right? Just pull in the data there the way you wanted. And it's like, okay, so you use technologies all over the place and then five years from now you have your data fragmented everywhere in different formats and, you know inconsistencies, and, and, and. And those are usually when you come back to this data-driven business critical business decision applications the worst case scenario you can have, right? Because now you need an army of people to actually do data cleansing. And there's not a coincidence that data science has become very, very popular the last recent years as we kind of went on with this proliferation of different database or data management technologies some of those are not even database. But I think I leave it at that. >> It's an interesting talk track because you're right. I mean, no schema on right was alluring, but it definitely created some problems. It also created an entire, you know you referenced the hyper specialized roles and did the data cleansing component. I mean, maybe technology will eventually solve that problem but it hasn't up at least up tonight. Okay, last question, Maria maybe you could start off and Gerald if you want to chime in as well it'd be great. I mean, it's interesting to watch this industry when Oracle sort of won the top database mantle. I mean, I watched it, I saw it. It was, remember it was Informix and it was (indistinct) too and of course, Microsoft you got to give them credit with SQL server, but Oracle won the database wars. And then everything got kind of quiet for awhile database was sort of boring. And then it exploded, you know, all the, you know not only SQL and the key-value stores and the cloud databases and this is really a hot area now. And when we looked at Oracle we said, okay, Oracle it's all about Oracle Database, but we've seen the kind of resurgence in MySQL which everybody thought, you know once Oracle bought Sun they were going to kill MySQL. But now we see you investing in HeatWave, TimesTen, we talked about In-Memory databases before. So where do those fit in Maria in the grand scheme? How should we think about Oracle's database portfolio? >> So there's lots of places where you'd use those different things. 'Cause just like any other industry there are going to be new and boutique use cases that are going to benefit from a more specialized product or single purpose product. So good examples off the top of my head of the kind of systems that would benefit from that would be things like a stock exchange system or a telephone exchange system. Both of those are latency critical transaction processing applications where they need microsecond response times. And that's going to exceed perhaps what you might normally get or deploy with a converged database. And so Oracle's TimesTen database our In-Memory database is perfect for those kinds of applications. But there's also a host of MySQL applications out there today and you said it yourself there Dave, HeatWave is a great place to provision and deploy those kinds of applications because it's going to run 100 times faster than AWS (mumbles). So, you know, there really is a place in the market and in our customer's systems and the needs they have for all of these different members of our database family here at Oracle. >> Yeah, well, the internet is basically running in the lamp stack so I see MySQL going away. All right Gerald, will give you the final word, bring us home. >> Oh, thank you very much. Yeah, I mean, as Maria said, I think it comes back to what we discussed before. There is obviously still needs for special technologies or different technologies than a relational database or multimodal database. Oracle has actually many more databases that people may first think of. Not only the three that we have already mentioned but there's even SP so the Oracle's NoSQL database. And, you know, on a high level Oracle is a data management company, right? And we want to give our customers the best tools and the best technology to manage all of their data. Rather than therefore there has to be a need or there should be a part of the business that also focuses on this highly specialized systems and this highly specialized technologies that address those use cases. And I think it makes perfect sense. It's like, you know, when the customer comes to Oracle they're not only getting this, take this one product you know, and if you don't like it your problem but actually you have choice, right? And choice allows you to make a decision based on what's best for you and not necessarily best for the vendor you're talking to. >> Well guys, really appreciate your time today and your insights. Maria, Gerald, thanks so much for coming on The Cube. >> Thank you very much for having us. >> And thanks for watching this Cube conversation this is Dave Vellante and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome to this special cloud virtual event, theCUBE on cloud. This is our continuing editorial series of the most important stories in cloud. We're going to explore the cutting edge most relevant technologies and companies that will impact business and society. We have special guests from Jeff Barr, Michael Liebow, Jerry Chen, Ben Haynes, Michael skulk, Mike Feinstein from AWS all today are presenting the top startups in the AWS ecosystem. This is the AWS showcase of startups. I'm showing with Dave Vellante. Dave great to see you. >> Hey John. Great to be here. Thanks for having me. >> So awesome day today. We're going to feature a 10 grade companies amplitude, auto grid, big ID, cordial Dremio Kong, multicloud, Reltio stardog wire wheel, companies that we've talked to. We've researched. And they're going to present today from 10 for the rest of the day. What's your thoughts? >> Well, John, a lot of these companies were just sort of last decade, they really, were keyer kicker mode, experimentation mode. Now they're well on their way to hitting escape velocity which is very exciting. And they're hitting tens of millions dollars of ARR, many are planning IPO's and it's just it's really great to see what the cloud has enabled and we're going to dig into that very deeply today. So I'm super excited. >> Before we jump into the keynote (mumbles) our non Huff from AWS up on stage Jeremy is the brains behind this program that we're doing. We're going to do this quarterly. Jeremy great to see you, you're in the global startups program at AWS. Your job is to keep the crops growing, keep the startups going and keep the flow of innovation. Thanks for joining us. >> Yeah. Made it to startup showcase day. I'm super excited. And as you mentioned my team the global startup program team, we kind of provide white glove service for VC backed startups and help them with go to market activities. Co-selling with AWS and we've been looking for ways to highlight all the great work they're doing and partnering with you guys has been tremendous. You guys really know how to bring their stories to life. So super excited about all the partner sessions today. >> Well, I really appreciate the vision and working with Amazon this is like truly a bar raiser from theCUBE virtual perspective, using the virtual we can get more content, more flow and great to have you on and bring that the top hot startups around data, data ops. Certainly the most important story in tech is cloud scale with data. You you can't look around and seeing more innovation happening. So I really appreciate the work. Thanks for coming on. >> Yeah, and don't forget, we're making this a quarterly series. So the next one we've already been working on it. The next one is Wednesday, June 16th. So mark your calendars, but super excited to continue doing these showcases with you guys in the future. >> Thanks for coming on Jeremy. I really appreciate it,. Dave so I want to just quick quickly before we get Jeff up here, Jeff Barr who's a luminary guests for us this week who has been in the industry has been there from the beginning of AWS the role of data, and what's happened in cloud. And we've been watching the evolution of Amazon web services from the beginning, from the startup market to dominate in the enterprise. If you look at the top 10 enterprise companies Amazon wasn't on that list in 2010 they weren't even bringing the top 10 Andy Jassy's keynote at reinvent this past year. Highlighted that fact, I think they were number five or four as vendor in just AWS. So interesting to see that you've been reporting and doing a lot of analysis on the role of data. What's your analysis for these startups and as businesses need to embrace the new technologies and be on the right side of history not part of that old guard, incumbent failed model. >> Well, I think again, if you look back on the early days of cloud, it was really about storage and networking and compute infrastructure. And then we collected all this data and now you're seeing the next generation of innovation and value. We're going to talk to Michael Liebow about this is really if you look at all the value points in the leavers, it's all around data and data is going through a massive change in the way that we think about it, that we talk about it. And you hear that a lot. Obviously you talk about the volumes, the giant volumes but there's something else going on as AWS brings the cloud to the edge. And of course it looks at the data centers, just another edge device, data is getting highly decentralized. And what we're seeing is data getting into the hands of business owners and data product builders. I think we're going to see a new parlance emerge and that's where you're seeing the competitive advantage. And if you look at all the real winners these days in the marketplace especially in the digital with COVID, it all comes back to the data. And we're going to talk about that a lot today. >> One of the things that's coming up in all of our cube interviews, certainly we've seen, I mean we've had a great observation space across all the ecosystems, but the clear thing that's coming out of COVID is speed, agility, scale, and data. If you don't have that data you are going to be a non-player. And I think I heard some industry people talking about the future of how the stock market's going to work and that if you're not truly in market with an AI or machine learning data value play you probably will be shorted on the stock market or delisted. I think people are looking at that as a table stakes competitive advantage item, where if you don't have some sort of data competitive strategy you're going to be either delisted or sold short. And that's, I don't think delisted but the point is this table-stakes Dave. >> Well, I think too, I think the whole language the lingua franca of data is changing. We talk about data as an asset all the time, but you think about it now, what do we do with assets? We protect it, we hide it. And we kind of we don't share it. But then on the other hand, everybody talks about sharing the data and that is a huge trend in the marketplace. And so I think that everybody is really starting to rethink the whole concept of data, what it is, its value and how we think about it, talk about it, share it make it accessible, and at the same time, protect it and make it governed. And I think you're seeing, computational governance and automation really hidden. Couldn't do this without the cloud. I mean, that's the bottom line. >> Well, I'm super excited to have Jeff Barr here from AWS as our special keynote guests. I've been following Jeff's career for a long, long time. He's a luminaries, he's a technical, he's in the industry. He's part of the community, he's been there from the beginning AWS just celebrate its 15th birthday as he was blogging hard. He's been a hardcore blogger. I think Jeff, you had one of the original ping service. If I remember correctly, you were part of the web services foundational kind of present at creation. No better guests to have you Jeff thanks for coming up on our stage. >> John and Dave really happy to be here. >> So I got to ask you, you've been blogging hard for the past decade or so, going hard and your job has evolved from blogging about what's new with Amazon. A couple of building blocks a few services to last reinvent them. You must have put out I don't know how many blog posts did you put out last year at every event? I mean, it must have been a zillion. >> Not quite a zillion. I think I personally wrote somewhere between 20 and 25 including quite a few that I did in the month or so run up to reinvent and it's always intense, but it's always really, really fun. >> So I've got to ask you in the past couple of years, I mean I quoted Andy Jassy's keynote where we highlight in 2010 Amazon wasn't even on the top 10 enterprise players. Now in the top five, you've seen the evolution. What is the big takeaway from your standpoint as you look at the enterprise going from Amazon really dominating the start of a year startups today, you're in the cloud, you're born in the cloud. There's advantage to that. Now enterprises are kind of being reborn in the cloud at the same time, they're building these new use cases rejuvenating themselves and having innovation strategy. What's your takeaway? >> So I love to work with our customers and one of the things that I hear over and over again and especially the last year or two is really the value that they're placing on building a workforce that has really strong cloud skills. They're investing in education. They're focusing on this neat phrase that I learned in Australia called upskilling and saying let's take our set of employees and improve their skill base. I hear companies really saying we're going to go cloud first. We're going to be cloud native. We're going to really embrace it, adopt the full set of cloud services and APIs. And I also see that they're really looking at cloud as part of often a bigger picture. They often use the phrase digital transformation, in Amazon terms we'd say they're thinking big. They're really looking beyond where they are and who they are to what they could be and what they could grow into. Really putting a lot of energy and creativity into thinking forward in that way. >> I wonder Jeff, if you could talk about sort of how people are thinking about the future of cloud if you look at where the spending action is obviously you see it in cloud computing. We've seen that as the move to digital, serverless Lambda is huge. If you look at the data it's off the charts, machine learning and AI also up there containers and of course, automation, AWS leads in all of those. And they portend a different sort of programming model a different way of thinking about how to deploy workloads and applications maybe different than the early days of cloud. What's driving that generally and I'm interested in serverless specifically. And how do you see the next several years folding out? >> Well, they always say that the future is the hardest thing to predict but when I talked to our enterprise customers the two really big things that I see is there's this focus that says we need to really, we're not simply like hosting the website or running the MRP. I'm working with one customer in particular where they say, well, we're going to start on the factory floor all the way up to the boardroom effectively from IOT and sensors on the factory floor to feed all the data into machine learning. So they understand that the factory is running really well to actually doing planning and inventory maintenance to putting it on the website to drive the analytics, to then saying, okay, well how do we know that we're building the right product mix? How do we know that we're getting it out through the right channels? How are our customers doing? So they're really saying there's so many different services available to us in the cloud and they're relatively easy and straightforward to deploy. They really don't think in the old days as we talked about earlier that the old days where these multi-year planning and deployment cycles, now it's much more straightforward. It's like let's see what we can do today. And this week and this month, and from idea to some initial results is a much, much shorter turnaround. So they can iterate a lot more quickly which is just always known to produce better results. >> Well, Jeff and the spirit of the 15th birthday of AWS a lot of services have been built from the original three. I believe it was the core building blocks and there's been a lot of history and it's kind of like there was a key decoupling of compute from storage, those innovations what's the most important architectural change if any has happened or built upon those building blocks with AWS that you could share with companies out there as many people are coming into the cloud not just lifting and shifting and having that innovation but really building cloud native and now hybrid full cloud operations, day two operations. However you want to look at it. That's a big thing. What architecturally has changed that's been innovative from those original building blocks? >> Well, I think that the basic architecture has proven to be very, very resilient. When I wrote about the 15 year birthday of Amazon S3 a couple of weeks ago one thing that I thought was really incredible was the fact that the same APIs that you could have used 15 years ago they all still work. The put, the get, the list, the delete, the permissions management, every last one of those were chosen with extreme care. And so they all still work. So one of the things you think about when you put APIs out there is in Amazon terms we always talk about going through a one-way door and a one way door says, once you do it you're committed for the indefinite future. And so you we're very happy to do that but we take those steps with extreme care. And so those basic building blocks so the original S3 APIs, the original EC2 APIs and the model, all those things really worked. But now they're running at this just insane scale. One thing that blows me away I routinely hear my colleagues talking about petabytes and exabytes, and we throw around trillions and quadrillions like they're pennies. It's kind of amazing. Sometimes when you hear the scale of requests per day or request per month, and the orders of magnitude are you can't map them back to reality anymore. They're simply like literally astronomical. >> If I can just jump in real quick Dave before you ask Jeff, I was watching the Jeff Bezos interview in 1999 that's been going around on LinkedIn in a 60 minutes interview. The interviewer says you are reporting that you can store a gigabyte of customer data from all their purchases. What are you going to do with that? He basically nailed the answer. This is in 99. We're going to use that data to create, that was only a gig. >> Well one of the things that is interesting to me guys, is if you look at again, the early days of cloud, of course I always talked about that in small companies like ours John could have now access to information technology that only big companies could get access to. And now you've seen we just going to talk about it today. All these startups rise up and reach viability. But at the same time, Jeff you've seen big companies get the aha moment on cloud and competition drives urgency and that drives innovation. And so now you see everybody is doing cloud, it's a mandate. And so the expectation is a lot more innovation, experimentation and speed from all ends. It's really exciting to see. >> I know this sounds hackneyed and overused but it really, really still feels just like day one. We're 15 plus years into this. I still wake up every morning, like, wow what is the coolest thing that I'm going to get to learn about and write about today? We have the most amazing customers, one of the things that is great when you're so well connected to your customers, they keep telling you about their dreams, their aspirations, their use cases. And we can just take that and say we can actually build awesome things to help you address those use cases from the ground on up, from building custom hardware things like the nitro system, the graviton to the machine learning inferencing and training chips where we have such insight into customer use cases because we have these awesome customers that we can make these incredible pieces of hardware and software to really address those use cases. >> I'm glad you brought that up. This is another big change, right? You're getting the early days of cloud like, oh, Amazon they're just using off the shelf components. They're not buying these big refrigerator sized disc drives. And now you're developing all this custom Silicon and vertical integration in certain aspects of your business. And that's because workload is demanding. You've got to get more specialized in a lot of cases. >> Indeed they do. And if you watch Peter DeSantis' keynote at re-invent he talked about the fact that we're researching ways to make better cement that actually produces less carbon dioxide. So we're now literally at the from the ground on up level of construction. >> Jeff, I want to get a question from the crowd here. We got, (mumbles) who's a good friend of theCUBE cloud Arate from the beginning. He asked you, he wants to know if you'd like to share Amazon's edge aspirations. He says, he goes, I mean, roadmaps. I go, first of all, he's not going to talk about the roadmaps, but what can you share? I mean, obviously the edge is key. Outpost has been all in the news. You obviously at CloudOps is not a boundary. It's a distributed network. What's your response to-- >> Well, the funny thing is we don't generally have technology roadmaps inside the company. The roadmap is always listen really well to customers not just where they are, but the customers are just so great at saying, this is where we'd like to go. And when we hear edge, the customers don't generally come to us and say edge, they say we need as low latency as possible between where the action happens within our factory floors and our own offices and where we might be able to compute, analyze, store make decisions. And so that's resulted in things like outposts where we can put outposts in their own data center or their own field office, wavelength, where we're working with 5G telecom providers to put computing storage in the carrier hubs of the various 5G providers. Again, with reducing latency, we've been doing things like local zones, where we put zones in an increasing number of cities across the country with the goal of just reducing the average latency between the vast majority of customers and AWS resources. So instead of thinking edge, we really think in terms of how do we make sure that our customers can realize their dreams. >> Staying on the flywheel that AWS has built on ship stuff faster, make things faster, smaller, cheaper, great mission. I want to ask you about the working backwards document. I know it's been getting a lot of public awareness. I've been, that's all I've learned in interviewing Amazon folks. They always work backwards. I always mentioned the customer and all the interviews. So you've got a couple of customer references in there check the box there for you. But working backwards has become kind of a guiding principles, almost like a Harvard Business School case study approach to management. As you guys look at this working backwards and ex Amazonians have written books about it now so people can go look at, it's a really good methodology. Take us back to how you guys work back from the customers because here we're featuring 10 startups. So companies that are out there and Andy has been preaching this to customers. You should think about working backwards because it's so fast. These companies are going into this enterprise market your ecosystem of startups to provide value. What things are you seeing that customers need to think about to work backwards from their customer? How do you see that? 'Cause you've been on the community side, you see the tech side customers have to move fast and work backwards. What are the things that they need to focus on? What's your observation? >> So there's actually a brand new book called "Working Backwards," which I actually learned a lot about our own company from simply reading the book. And I think to me, a principal part of learning backward it's really about humility and being able to be a great listener. So you don't walk into a customer meeting ready to just broadcast the latest and greatest that we've been working on. You walk in and say, I'm here from AWS and I simply want to learn more about who you are, what you're doing. And most importantly, what do you want to do that we're not able to help you with right now? And then once we hear those kinds of things we don't simply write down kind of a bullet item of AWS needs to improve. It's this very active listening process. Tell me a little bit more about this challenge and if we solve it in this way or this way which one's a better fit for your needs. And then a typical AWS launch, we might talk to between 50 and 100 customers in depth to make sure that we have that detailed understanding of what they would like to do. We can't always meet all the needs of these customers but the idea is let's see what is the common base that we can address first. And then once we get that first iteration out there, let's keep listening, let's keep making it better and better and better as quickly. >> A lot of people might poopoo that John but I got to tell you, John, you will remember this the first time we ever met Andy Jassy face-to-face. I was in the room, you were on the speaker phone. We were building an app on AWS at the time. And he was asking you John, for feedback. And he was probing and he pulled out his notebook. He was writing down and he wasn't just superficial questions. He was like, well, why'd you do it that way? And he really wanted to dig. So this is cultural. >> Yeah. I mean, that's the classic Amazon. And that's the best thing about it is that you can go from zero startups zero stage startup to traction. And that was the premise of the cloud. Jeff, I want to get your thoughts and commentary on this love to get your opinion. You've seen this grow from the beginning. And I remember 'cause I've been playing with AWS since the beginning as well. And it says as an entrepreneur I remember my first EC2 instance that didn't even have custom domain support. It was the long URL. You seen the startups and now that we've been 15 years in, you see Dropbox was it just a startup back in the day. I remember these startups that when they were coming they were all born on Amazon, right? These big now unicorns, you were there when these guys were just developers and these gals. So what's it like, I mean, you see just the growth like here's a couple of people with them ideas rubbing nickels together, making magic happen who knows what's going to turn into, you've been there. What's it been like? >> It's been a really unique journey. And to me like the privilege of a lifetime, honestly I've like, you always want to be part of something amazing and you aspire to it and you study hard and you work hard and you always think, okay, somewhere in this universe something really cool is about to happen. And if you're really, really lucky and just a million great pieces of luck like lineup in series, sometimes it actually all works out and you get to be part of something like this when it does you don't always fully appreciate just how awesome it is from the inside, because you're just there just like feeding the machine and you are just doing your job just as fast as you possibly can. And in my case, it was listening to teams and writing blog posts about their launches and sharing them on social media, going out and speaking, you do it, you do it as quickly as possible. You're kind of running your whole life as you're doing that as well. And suddenly you just take a little step back and say, wow we did this kind of amazing thing, but we don't tend to like relax and say, okay, we've done it at Amazon. We get to a certain point. We recognize it. And five minutes later, we're like, okay, let's do the next amazingly good thing. But it's been this just unique privilege and something that I never thought I'd be fortunate enough to be a part of. >> Well, then the last few minutes we have Jeff I really appreciate you taking the time to spend with us for this inaugural launch of theCUBE on cloud startup showcase. We are showcasing 10 startups here from your ecosystem. And a lot of people who know AWS for the folks that don't you guys pride yourself on community and ecosystem the global startups program that Jeremy and his team are running. You guys nurture these startups. You want them to be successful. They're vectoring out into the marketplace with growth strategy, helping customers. What's your take on this ecosystem? As customers are out there listening to this what's your advice to them? How should they engage? Why is these sets of start-ups so important? >> Well, I totally love startups and I've spent time in several startups. I've spent other time consulting with them. And I think we're in this incredible time now wheres, it's so easy and straightforward to get those basic resources, to get your compute, to get your storage, to get your databases, to get your machine learning and to take that and to really focus on your customers and to build what you want. And we see this actual exponential growth. And we see these startups that find something to do. They listen to one of their customers, they build that solution. And they're just that feedback cycle gets started. It's really incredible. And I love to see the energy of these startups. I love to hear from them. And at any point if we've got an AWS powered startup and they build something awesome and want to share it with me, I'm all ears. I love to hear about them. Emails, Twitter mentions, whatever I'll just love to hear about all this energy all those great success with our startups. >> Jeff Barr, thank you for coming on. And congratulations, please pass on to Andy Jassy who's going to take over for Jeff Bezos and I saw the big news that he's picking a successor an Amazonian coming back into the fold, Adam. So congratulations on that. >> I will definitely pass on your congratulations to Andy and I worked with Adam in the past when AWS was just getting started and really looking forward to seeing him again, welcoming back and working with him. >> All right, Jeff Barr with AWS guys check out his Twitter and all the social coordinates. He is pumping out all the resources you need to know about if you're a developer or you're an enterprise looking to go to the next level, next generation, modern infrastructure. Thanks Jeff for coming on. Really appreciate it. Our next guests want to bring up stage Michael Liebow from McKinsey cube alumni, who is a great guest who is very timely in his McKinsey role with a paper he and his colleagues put out called cloud's trillion dollar prize up for grabs. Michael, thank you for coming up on stage with Dave and I. >> Hey, great to be here, John. Thank you. >> One of the things I loved about this and why I wanted you to come on was not only is the report awesome. And Dave has got a zillion questions, he want us to drill into. But in 2015, we wrote a story called Andy Jassy trillion dollar baby on Forbes, and then on medium and silken angle where we were the first ones to profile Andy Jassy and talk about this trillion dollar term. And Dave came up with the calculation and people thought we were crazy. What are you talking about trillion dollar opportunity. That was in 2015. You guys have put this together with a serious research report with methodology and you left a lot on the table. I noticed in the report you didn't even have a whole section quantified. So I think just scratching the surface trillion. I'd be a little light, Dave, so let's dig into it, Michael thanks for coming on. >> Well, and I got to say, Michael that John's a trillion dollar baby was revenue. Yours is EBITDA. So we're talking about seven to X, seven to eight X. What we were talking back then, but great job on the report. Fantastic work. >> Thank you. >> So tell us about the report gives a quick lowdown. I got some questions. You guys are unlocking the value drivers but give us a quick overview of this report that people can get for free. So everyone who's registered will get a copy but give us a quick rundown. >> Great. Well the question I think that has bothered all of us for a long time is what's the business value of cloud and how do you quantify it? How do you specify it? Because a lot of people talk around the infrastructure or technical value of cloud but that actually is a big problem because it just scratches the surface of the potential of what cloud can mean. And we focus around the fortune 500. So we had to box us in somewhat. And so focusing on the fortune 500 and fast forwarding to 2030, we put out this number that there's over a trillion dollars worth of value. And we did a lot of analysis using research from a variety of partners, using third-party research, primary research in order to come up with this view. So the business value is two X the technical value of cloud. And as you just pointed out, there is a whole unlock of additional value where organizations can pioneer on some of the newest technologies. And so AWS and others are creating platforms in order to do not just machine learning and analytics and IOT, but also for quantum or mixed reality for blockchain. And so organizations specific around the fortune 500 that aren't leveraging these capabilities today are going to get left behind. And that's the message we were trying to deliver that if you're not doing this and doing this with purpose and with great execution, that others, whether it's others in your industry or upstarts who were motioning into your industry, because as you say cloud democratizes compute, it provides these capabilities and small companies with talent. And that's what the skills can leverage these capabilities ahead of slow moving incumbents. And I think that was the critical component. So that gives you the framework. We can deep dive based on your questions. >> Well before we get into the deep dive, I want to ask you we have startups being showcased here as part of the, it will showcase, they're coming out of the ecosystem. They have a lot of certification from Amazon and they're secure, which is a big issue. Enterprises that you guys talk to McKinsey speaks directly to I call the boardroom CXOs, the top executives. Are they realizing that the scale and timing of this agility window? I mean, you want to go through these key areas that you would break out but as startups become more relevant the boardrooms that are making these big decisions realize that their businesses are up for grabs. Do they realize that all this wealth is shifting? And do they see the role of startups helping them? How did you guys come out of them and report on that piece? >> Well in terms of the whole notion, we came up with this framework which looked at the opportunity. We talked about it in terms of three dimensions, rejuvenate, innovate and pioneer. And so from the standpoint of a board they're more than focused on not just efficiency and cost reduction basically tied to nation, but innovation tied to analytics tied to machine learning, tied to IOT, tied to two key attributes of cloud speed and scale. And one of the things that we did in the paper was leverage case examples from across industry, across-region there's 17 different case examples. My three favorite is one is Moderna. So software for life couldn't have delivered the vaccine as fast as they did without cloud. My second example was Goldman Sachs got into consumer banking is the platform behind the Apple card couldn't have done it without leveraging cloud. And the third example, particularly in early days of the pandemic was Zoom that added five to 6,000 servers a night in order to scale to meet the demand. And so all three of those examples, plus the other 14 just indicate in business terms what the potential is and to convince boards and the C-suite that if you're not doing this, and we have some recommendations in terms of what CEOs should do in order to leverage this but to really take advantage of those capabilities. >> Michael, I think it's important to point out the approach at sometimes it gets a little wonky on the methodology but having done a lot of these types of studies and observed there's a lot of superficial studies out there, a lot of times people will do, they'll go I'll talk to a customer. What kind of ROI did you get? And boom, that's the value study. You took a different approach. You have benchmark data, you talked to a lot of companies. You obviously have a lot of financial data. You use some third-party data, you built models, you bounded it. And ultimately when you do these things you have to ascribe a value contribution to the cloud component because fortunate 500 companies are going to grow even if there were no cloud. And the way you did that is again, you talk to people you model things, and it's a very detailed study. And I think it's worth pointing out that this was not just hey what'd you get from going to cloud before and after. This was a very detailed deep dive with really a lot of good background work going into it. >> Yeah, we're very fortunate to have the McKinsey Global Institute which has done extensive studies in these areas. So there was a base of knowledge that we could leverage. In fact, we looked at over 700 use cases across 19 industries in order to unpack the value that cloud contributed to those use cases. And so getting down to that level of specificity really, I think helps build it from the bottom up and then using cloud measures or KPIs that indicate the value like how much faster you can deploy, how much faster you can develop. So these are things that help to kind of inform the overall model. >> Yeah. Again, having done hundreds, if not thousands of these types of things, when you start talking to people the patterns emerge, I want to ask you there's an exhibit tool in here, which is right on those use cases, retail, healthcare, high-tech oil and gas banking, and a lot of examples. And I went through them all and virtually every single one of them from a value contribution standpoint the unlocking value came down to data large data sets, document analysis, converting sentiment analysis, analytics. I mean, it really does come down to the data. And I wonder if you could comment on that and why is it that cloud is enabled that? >> Well, it goes back to scale. And I think the word that I would use would be data gravity because we're talking about massive amounts of data. So as you go through those kind of three dimensions in terms of rejuvenation one of the things you can do as you optimize and clarify and build better resiliency the thing that comes into play I think is to have clean data and data that's available in multiple places that you can create an underlying platform in order to leverage the services, the capabilities around, building out that structure. >> And then if I may, so you had this again I want to stress as EBITDA. It's not a revenue and it's the EBITDA potential as a result of leveraging cloud. And you listed a number of industries. And I wonder if you could comment on the patterns that you saw. I mean, it doesn't seem to be as simple as Negroponte bits versus Adam's in terms of your ability to unlock value. What are the patterns that you saw there and why are the ones that have so much potential why are they at the top of the list? >> Well, I mean, they're ranked based on impact. So the five greatest industries and again, aligned by the fortune 500. So it's interesting when you start to unpack it that way high-tech oil, gas, retail, healthcare, insurance and banking, right? Top. And so we did look at the different solutions that were in that, tried to decipher what was fully unlocked by cloud, what was accelerated by cloud and what was perhaps in this timeframe remaining on premise. And so we kind of step by step, expert by expert, use case by use case deciphered of the 700, how that applied. >> So how should practitioners within organizations business but how should they use this data? What would you recommend, in terms of how they think about it, how they apply it to their business, how they communicate? >> Well, I think clearly what came out was a set of best practices for what organizations that were leveraging cloud and getting the kind of business return, three things stood out, execution, experience and excellence. And so for under execution it's not just the transaction, you're not just buying cloud you're changing their operating model. And so if the organization isn't kind of retooling the model, the processes, the workflows in order to support creating the roles then they aren't going to be able, they aren't going to be successful. In terms of experience, that's all about hands-on. And so you have to dive in, you have to start you have to apply yourself, you have to gain that applied knowledge. And so if you're not gaining that experience, you're not going to move forward. And then in terms of excellence, and it was mentioned earlier by Jeff re-skilling, up-skilling, if you're not committed to your workforce and pushing certification, pushing training in order to really evolve your workforce or your ways of working you're not going to leverage cloud. So those three best practices really came up on top in terms of what a mature cloud adopter looks like. >> That's awesome. Michael, thank you for coming on. Really appreciate it. Last question I have for you as we wrap up this trillion dollar segment upon intended is the cloud mindset. You mentioned partnering and scaling up. The role of the enterprise and business is to partner with the technologists, not just the technologies but the companies talk about this cloud native mindset because it's not just lift and shift and run apps. And I have an IT optimization issue. It's about innovating next gen solutions and you're seeing it in public sector. You're seeing it in the commercial sector, all areas where the relationship with partners and companies and startups in particular, this is the startup showcase. These are startups are more relevant than ever as the tide is shifting to a new generation of companies. >> Yeah, so a lot of think about an engine. A lot of things have to work in order to produce the kind of results that we're talking about. Brad, you're more than fair share or unfair share of trillion dollars. And so CEOs need to lead this in bold fashion. Number one, they need to craft the moonshot or the Marshot. They have to set that goal, that aspiration. And it has to be a stretch goal for the organization because cloud is the only way to enable that achievement of that aspiration that's number one, number two, they really need a hardheaded economic case. It has to be defined in terms of what the expectation is going to be. So it's not loose. It's very, very well and defined. And in some respects time box what can we do here? I would say the cloud data, your organization has to move in an agile fashion training DevOps, and the fourth thing, and this is where the startups come in is the cloud platform. There has to be an underlying platform that supports those aspirations. It's an art, it's not just an architecture. It's a living, breathing live service with integrations, with standardization, with self service that enables this whole program. >> Awesome, Michael, thank you for coming on and sharing the McKinsey perspective. The report, the clouds trillion dollar prize is up for grabs. Everyone who's registered for this event will get a copy. We will appreciate it's also on the website. We'll make sure everyone gets a copy. Thanks for coming, I appreciate it. Thank you. >> Thanks, Michael. >> Okay, Dave, big discussion there. Trillion dollar baby. That's the cloud. That's Jassy. Now he's going to be the CEO of AWS. They have a new CEO they announced. So that's going to be good for Amazon's kind of got clarity on the succession to Jassy, trusted soldier. The ecosystem is big for Amazon. Unlike Microsoft, they have the different view, right? They have some apps, but they're cultivating as many startups and enterprises as possible in the cloud. And no better reason to change gears here and get a venture capitalist in here. And a friend of theCUBE, Jerry Chen let's bring them up on stage. Jerry Chen, great to see you partner at Greylock making all the big investments. Good to see you >> John hey, Dave it's great to be here with you guys. Happy marks.Can you see that? >> Hey Jerry, good to see you man >> So Jerry, our first inaugural AWS startup showcase we'll be doing these quarterly and we're going to be featuring the best of the best, you're investing in all the hot startups. We've been tracking your careers from the beginning. You're a good friend of theCUBE. Always got great commentary. Why are startups more important than ever before? Because in the old days we've talked about theCUBE before startups had to go through certain certifications and you've got tire kicking, you got to go through IT. It's like going through security at the airport, take your shoes off, put your belt on thing. I mean, all kinds of things now different. The world has changed. What's your take? >> I think startups have always been a great way for experimentation, right? It's either new technologies, new business models, new markets they can move faster, the experiment, and a lot of startups don't work, unfortunately, but a lot of them turned to be multi-billion dollar companies. I thing startup is more important because as we come out COVID and economy is recovery is a great way for individuals, engineers, for companies for different markets to try different things out. And I think startups are running multiple experiments at the same time across the globe trying to figure how to do things better, faster, cheaper. >> And McKinsey points out this use case of rejuvenate, which is essentially retool pivot essentially get your costs down or and the next innovation here where there's Tam there's trillion dollars on unlock value and where the bulk of it is is the innovation, the new use cases and existing new use cases. This is where the enterprises really have an opportunity. Could you share your thoughts as you invest in the startups to attack these new waves these new areas where it may not look the same as before, what's your assessment of this kind of innovation, these new use cases? >> I think we talked last time about kind of changing the COVID the past year and there's been acceleration of things like how we work, education, medicine all these things are going online. So I think that's very clear. The first wave of innovation is like, hey things we didn't think we could be possible, like working remotely, e-commerce everywhere, telemedicine, tele-education, that's happening. I think the second order of fact now is okay as enterprises realize that this is the new reality everything is digital, everything is in the cloud and everything's going to be more kind of electronic relation with the customers. I think that we're rethinking what does it mean to be a business? What does it mean to be a bank? What does it mean to be a car company or an energy company? What does it mean to be a retailer? Right? So I think the rethinking that brands are now global, brands are all online. And they now have relationships with the customers directly. So I think if you are a business now, you have to re experiment or rethink about your business model. If you thought you were a Nike selling shoes to the retailers, like half of Nike's revenue is now digital right all online. So instead of selling sneakers through stores they're now a direct to consumer brand. And so I think every business is going to rethink about what the AR. Airbnb is like are they in the travel business or the experience business, right? Airlines, what business are they in? >> Yeah, theCUBE we're direct to consumer virtual totally opened up our business model. Dave, the cloud premise is interesting now. I mean, let's reset this where we are, right? Andy Jassy always talks about the old guard, new guard. Okay we've been there done that, even though they still have a lot of Oracle inside AWS which we were joking the other day, but this new modern era coming out of COVID Jerry brings this up. These startups are going to be relevant take territory down in the enterprises as new things develop. What's your premise of the cloud and AWS prospect? >> Well, so Jerry, I want to to ask you. >> Jerry: Yeah. >> The other night, last Thursday, I think we were in Clubhouse. Ben Horowitz was on and Martine Casado was laying out this sort of premise about cloud startups saying basically at some point they're going to have to repatriate because of the Amazon VIG. I mean, I'm paraphrasing and I guess the premise was that there's this variable cost that grows as you scale but I kind of shook my head and I went back. You saw, I put it out on Twitter a clip that we had the a couple of years ago and I don't think, I certainly didn't see it that way. Maybe I'm getting it wrong but what's your take on that? I just don't see a snowflake ever saying, okay we're going to go build our own data center or we're going to repatriate 'cause they're going to end up like service now and have this high cost infrastructure. What do you think? >> Yeah, look, I think Martin is an old friend from VMware and he's brilliant. He has placed a lot of insights. There is some insights around, at some point a scale, use of startup can probably run things more cost-effectively in your own data center, right? But I think that's fewer companies more the vast majority, right? At some point, but number two, to your point, Dave going on premise versus your own data center are two different things. So on premise in a customer's environment versus your own data center are two different worlds. So at some point some scale, a lot of the large SaaS companies run their own data centers that makes sense, Facebook and Google they're at scale, they run their own data centers, going on premise or customer's environment like a fortune 100 bank or something like that. That's a different story. There are reasons to do that around compliance or data gravity, Dave, but Amazon's costs, I don't think is a legitimate reason. Like if price is an issue that could be solved much faster than architectural decisions or tech stacks, right? Once you're on the cloud I think the thesis, the conversation we had like a year ago was the way you build apps are very different in the cloud and the way built apps on premise, right? You have assume storage, networking and compute elasticity that's independent each other. You don't really get that in a customer's data center or their own environment even with all the new technologies. So you can't really go from cloud back to on-premise because the way you build your apps look very, very different. So I would say for sure at some scale run your own data center that's why the hyperscale guys do that. On-premise for customers, data gravity, compliance governance, great reasons to go on premise but for vast majority of startups and vast majority of customers, the network effects you get for being in the cloud, the network effects you get from having everything in this alas cloud service I think outweighs any of the costs. >> I couldn't agree more and that's where the data is, at the way I look at it is your technology spend is going to be some percentage of revenue and it's going to be generally flat over time and you're going to have to manage it whether it's in the cloud or it's on prem John. >> Yeah, we had a quote on theCUBE on the conscious that had Jerry I want to get your reaction to this. The executive said, if you don't have an AI strategy built into your value proposition you will be shorted as a stock on wall street. And I even went further. So you'll probably be delisted cause you won't be performing with a tongue in cheek comment. But the reality is that that's indicating that everyone has to have AI in their thing. Mainly as a reality, what's your take on that? I know you've got a lot of investments in this area as AI becomes beyond fashion and becomes table stakes. Where are we on that spectrum? And how does that impact business and society as that becomes a key part of the stack and application stack? >> Yeah, I think John you've seen AI machine learning turn out to be some kind of novelty thing that a bunch of CS professors working on years ago to a funnel piece of every application. So I would say the statement of the sentiment's directionally correct that 20 years ago if you didn't have a web strategy or a website as a company, your company be sure it, right? If you didn't have kind of a internet website, you weren't real company. Likewise, if you don't use AI now to power your applications or machine learning in some form or fashion for sure you'd be at a competitive disadvantage to everyone else. And just like if you're not using software intelligently or the cloud intelligently your stock as a company is going to underperform the rest of the market. And the cloud guys on the startups that we're backing are making AI so accessible and so easy for developers today that it's really easy to use some level of machine learning, any applications, if you're not doing that it's like not having a website in 1999. >> Yeah. So let's get into that whole operation side. So what would you be your advice to the enterprises that are watching and people who are making decisions on architecture and how they roll out their business model or value proposition? How should they look at AI and operations? I mean big theme is day two operations. You've got IT service management, all these things are being disrupted. What's the operational impact to this? What's your view on that? >> So I think two things, one thing that you and Dave both talked about operation is the key, I mean, operations is not just the guts of the business but the actual people running the business, right? And so we forget that one of the values are going to cloud, one of the values of giving these services is you not only have a different technology stack, all the bits, you have a different human stack meaning the people running your cloud, running your data center are now effectively outsource to Amazon, Google or Azure, right? Which I think a big part of the Amazon VIG as Dave said, is so eloquently on Twitter per se, right? You're really paying for those folks like carry pagers. Now take that to the next level. Operations is human beings, people intelligently trying to figure out how my business can run better, right? And that's either accelerate revenue or decrease costs, improve my margin. So if you want to use machine learning, I would say there's two areas to think about. One is how I think about customers, right? So we both talked about the amount of data being generated around enterprise individuals. So intelligently use machine learning how to serve my customers better, then number two AI and machine learning internally how to run my business better, right? Can I take cost out? Can I optimize supply chain? Can I use my warehouses more efficiently my logistics more efficiently? So one is how do I use AI learning to be a more familiar more customer oriented and number two, how can I take cost out be more efficient as a company, by writing AI internally from finance ops, et cetera. >> So, Jerry, I wonder if I could ask you a little different subject but a question on tactical valuations how coupled or decoupled are private company valuations from the public markets. You're seeing the public markets everybody's freaking out 'cause interest rates are going to go up. So the future value of cash flows are lower. Does that trickle in quickly into the private markets? Or is it a whole different dynamic? >> If I could weigh in poly for some private markets Dave I would have a different job than I do today. I think the reality is in the long run it doesn't matter as much as long as you're investing early. Now that's an easy answer say, boats have to fall away. Yes, interest rates will probably go up because they're hard to go lower, right? They're effectively almost zero to negative right now in most of the developed world, but at the end of the day, I'm not going to trade my Twilio shares or Salesforce shares for like a 1% yield bond, right? I'm going to hold the high growth tech stocks because regardless of what interest rates you're giving me 1%, 2%, 3%, I'm still going to beat that with a top tech performers, Snowflake, Twilio Hashi Corp, bunch of the private companies out there I think are elastic. They're going to have a great 10, 15 year run. And in the Greylock portfolio like the things we're investing in, I'm super bullish on from Roxanne to Kronos fear, to true era in the AI space. I think in the long run, next 10 years these things will outperform the market that said, right valuation prices have gone up and down and they will in our careers, they have. In the careers we've been covering tech. So I do believe that they're high now they'll come down for sure. Will they go back up again? Definitely, right? But as long as you're betting these macro waves I think we're all be good. >> Great answer as usual. Would you trade them for NFTs Jerry? >> That $69 million people piece of artwork look, I mean, I'm a longterm believer in kind of IP and property rights in the blockchain, right? And I'm waiting for theCUBE to mint this video as the NFT, when we do this guys, we'll mint this video's NFT and see how much people pay for the original Dave, John, Jerry (mumbles). >> Hey, you know what? We can probably get some good bang for that. Hey it's all about this next Jerry. Jerry, great to have you on, final question as we got this one minute left what's your advice to the people out there that either engaging with these innovative startups, we're going to feature startups every quarter from the in the Amazon ecosystem, they are going to be adding value. What's the advice to the enterprises that are engaging startups, the approach, posture, what's your advice. >> Yeah, when I talk to CIOs and large enterprises, they often are wary like, hey, when do I engage a startup? How, what businesses, and is it risky or low risk? Now I say, just like any career managing, just like any investment you're making in a big, small company you should have a budget or set of projects. And then I want to say to a CIO, Hey, every priority on your wish list, go use the startup, right? I mean, that would be 10 for 10 projects, 10 startups. Probably too much risk for a lot of tech companies. But we would say to most CIOs and executives, look, there are strategic initiatives in your business that you want to accelerate. And I would take the time to invest in one or two startups each quarter selectively, right? Use the time, focus on fewer startups, go deep with them because we can actually be game changers in terms of inflecting your business. And what I mean by that is don't pick too many startups because you can't devote the time, but don't pick zero startups because you're going to be left behind, right? It'd be shorted as a stock by the John, Dave and Jerry hedge fund apparently but pick a handful of startups in your strategic areas, in your top tier three things. These really, these could be accelerators for your career. >> I have to ask you real quick while you're here. We've got a couple minutes left on startups that are building apps. I've seen DevOps and the infrastructure as code movement has gone full mainstream. That's really what we're living right now. That kind of first-generation commercialization of DevOps. Now DevSecOps, what are the trends that you've seen that's different from say a couple of years ago now that we're in COVID around how apps are being built? Is it security? Is it the data integration? What can you share as a key app stack impact (mumbles)? >> Yeah, I think there're two things one is security is always been a top priority. I think that was the only going forward period, right? Security for sure. That's why you said that DevOps, DevSecOps like security is often overlooked but I think increasingly could be more important. The second thing is I think we talked about Dave mentioned earlier just the data around customers, the data on premise or the cloud, and there's a ton of data out there. We keep saying this over and over again like data's new oil, et cetera. It's evolving and not changing because the way we're using data finding data is changing in terms of sources of data we're using and discovering and also speed of data, right? In terms of going from Basser real-time is changing. The speed of business has changed to go faster. So I think these are all things that we're thinking about. So both security and how you use your data faster and better. >> Yeah you were in theCUBE a number of years ago and I remember either John or I asked you about you think Amazon is going to go up the stack and start developing applications and your answer was you know what I think no, I think they're going to enable a new set of disruptors to come in and disrupt the SaaS world. And I think that's largely playing out. And one of the interesting things about Adam Selipsky appointment to the CEO, he comes from Tableau. He really helped Tableau go from that sort of old guard model to an ARR model obviously executed a great exit to Salesforce. And now I see companies like Salesforce and service now and Workday is potential for your scenario to really play out. They've got in my view anyway, outdated pricing models. You look at what's how Snowflake's pricing and the consumption basis, same with Datadog same with Stripe and new startups seem to really be a leading into the consumption-based pricing model. So how do you, what are your thoughts on that? And maybe thoughts on Adam and thoughts on SaaS disruption? >> I think my thesis still holds that. I don't think Selipsky Adam is going to go into the app space aggressively. I think Amazon wants to enable next generation apps and seeing some of the new service that they're doing is they're kind of deconstructing apps, right? They're deconstructing the parts of CRM or e-commerce and they're offering them as services. So I think you're going to see Amazon continue to say, hey we're the core parts of an app like payments or custom prediction or some machine learning things around applications you want to buy bacon, they're going to turn those things to the API and sell those services, right? So you look at things like Stripe, Twilio which are two of the biggest companies out there. They're not apps themselves, they're the components of the app, right? Either e-commerce or messaging communications. So I can see Amazon going down that path. I think Adam is a great choice, right? He was a longterm early AWS exact from the early days latent to your point Dave really helped take Tableau into kind of a cloud business acquired by Salesforce work there for a few years under Benioff the guy who created quote unquote cloud and now him coming home again and back to Amazon. So I think it'll be exciting to see how Adam runs the business. >> And John I think he's the perfect choice because he's got operations chops and he knows how to... He can help the startups disrupt. >> Yeah, and he's been a trusted soldier of Jassy from the beginning, he knows the DNA. He's got some CEO outside experience. I think that was the key he knows. And he's not going to give up Amazon speed, but this is baby, right? So he's got him in charge and he's a trusted lieutenant. >> You think. Yeah, you think he's going to hold the mic? >> Yeah. We got to go. Jerry Chen thank you very much for coming on. Really appreciate it. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on our inaugural cube on cloud AWS startup event. Now for the 10 startups, enjoy the sessions at 12:30 Pacific, we're going to have the closing keynote. I'm John Ferry for Dave Vellante and our special guests, thanks for watching and enjoy the rest of the day and the 10 startups. (upbeat music)

>> Male's Voice: From around the globe, its theCUBE. With digital coverage of a special announcement, brought to you by Nutanix. (soft music) >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman. And welcome to this special announcement for Nutanix, about some new product releases in the public cloud. To help us kick this off for the Asia Pacific and Japan region. Happy to welcome to the program Jordan Reizes, who's the vice president of marketing, for APJ and Nutanix. Jordan, help us introduce it. Thanks Stu. So today we're really pleased to announce Nutanix Clusters, availability in Asia Pacific and Japan, at the same time as the rest of the world. And we think this technology is really important to our geographically dispersed customers, all across the region, in terms of helping them, On-Ramp to the cloud. So, we're really excited about this launch today. And Stu, I can't wait to see the rest of the program. And make sure you stay tuned at the end, for our interview with our CTO, Justin Hurst. Who's going to be answering a bunch of questions that are really specific to the APJ region. >> All right, thank you so much Jordan, for helping us kick this off. We're now going to cut over to my interview with Monica and Tarkan, with the news. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman. And I want to welcome you to this special event that we are doing with Nutanix. Of course, in 2020 many things have changed. And that has changed some of the priorities, for many companies out there. Acceleration of cloud adoption, absolutely have been there. I've talked to many companies that were dipping their toe, or thinking about, where they were going to cloud. And of course it's rapidly moved to accelerate to be able to leverage work from home, remote contact centers, and the like. So, we have to think about how we can accelerate what's happening, and make sure that our workforce, and our customers are all taken care of. So, one of the front seats of this, is of course, companies working to help modernize customers out there. And, Nutanix is part of that discussion. So, I want to welcome to join us for this special discussion of cloud and Nutanix. I have two of our CUBE alumnus. First of all, we have Monica Kumar. She's the senior vice president of product, with Nutanix. And Tarkan Maner, who's a relative newcomer. Second time on theCUBE, in his new role many time guests. Previously, Tarkan is the chief commercial officer with Nutanix. Monica and Tarkan, thank you so much for joining us. >> Thank you so much. So happy to be back on theCUBE. >> Yeah, thank you. >> All right. So, Tarkan as I was teeing up, we know that, IT staffs in general, CIO specifically, and companies overall, are under a lot of pressure in general. But in 2020, there are new pressures on them. So, why don't you explain to us, the special cloud announcement. Tell us, what's Nutanix launching, and why it's so important today. >> So, Stu first of all, thank you. And glad to be here with Monica. And basically you and I, spend some time with a few customers in the past few weeks and months. I'll tell you, the things in our industry are changing at a pace that we never seen before. Especially with this pandemic backdrop, as we're going through. And obviously, all the economic challenges that creates beyond the obviously, health challenges and across the world, all the pain it creates. But also it creates some opportunities for our customers and partners to deliver solutions to our enterprise customers, and commercial customers, and in a public sector customers, in multiple industries. From healthcare, obviously very importantly, to manufacturing, to supply chains, and to all the other industries, including financial services and public sector again. So in that context, Monica knows as well as she's our leader. You know, our strategy, we're putting lots of effort in this new multi-class strategy as a company. As you know, is too well, Nutanix wrote the book, in digital infrastructures with its own private, (mumbles) infrastructure story. Now they're taking that next level, via our data center solutions, via DevOps solutions, and end user computer solutions. Now, the multicloud fashion, working with partners like AWS. So, in this launch, we have our new, hybrid cloud infrastructure, Nutanix Clusters product now available in the AWS. We are super excited. We have more than 20 tech firms, and customers, and partners at sealable executive level support in this big launch. Timing is usually important, because of this pandemic backdrop. And the goal is obviously to help our customers save money, focus what's important for them, save money for them, and making sure they streamlined their IT operation. So it's a huge launch for us. And we're super excited about it. >> Yeah. And the one thing I would add too, what Tarkan said too is, look, we talk to a lot of customers, and obviously cloud is the constant, in terms of enabling innovation. But I think more with COVID, what's on top of mind is also how do we use cloud for innovation? But really be intelligent about cost optimization. So with this new announcement, what we are excited about is we're bringing, making really a hybrid cloud reality, across public and private cloud. But also making sure customers, get the cost efficiency they need, when they're deploying the solution. So we are super excited to bring true hybrid cloud offering with AWS to the market today. >> Well, I can tell you Nutanix cluster is absolutely one of the exciting technologies I've enjoyed, watching and getting ready for. And of course, a partnership with the largest public cloud player out there AWS, is really important. When I think about Nutanix from the earliest days, the word that we always used for the HI Space and Nutanix specifically, was simplicity. Anybody in the tech space know that, true simplicity is really hard to do. When I think about cloud, when I think about multicloud, simplicity is not the first thing that I think of. So, Tarkan has helped us connect, how is Nutanix going to extend the simplicity that it's done, for so long now in the data center, into places like AWS with this solution? >> So, Stu you're spot on. Look, Monica and I spend a lot of time with our customers. One thing about Nutanix executive team, you're very customer-driven. And I'm not just saying this to make a point. We really spent tons of time with them because our solutions are basically so critical for them to run their businesses. So, just recently I was with a senior executive, C level executive of an airline. Right before that, Monica and I spent actually with one of the largest banks in the world in France, in Paris. Right before the pandemic, we were actually traveling. Talking to, not all the CIO, the chief operating officer on one of these huge banks. And the biggest issue was, how these companies are trying to basically adjust their plans, business plans. I'm not talking about tech plans, IT plans, the business plans around this backdrop with the economic stress. And obviously, now pandemic is in a big way. One of the CIOs told me, he was an airline executive. "Look Tarkan, in the next four months, my business might be half of what it is today. And I need to do more with less, in so many different ways, while I'm cutting costs." So it's a tough time. So, in that context is to... Your actually right. Multicloud is in a difficult proposition, but it's critical, for these companies to manage their cost structures across multiple operating models. Cloud to us, is not a destination, it's a means to an ends. It is an operating model. At the end of the day, the differentiation is still the software. The unique software that we provide from digital infrastructures, to deliver, end to end discreet data center solutions, DevOps solutions for developers, as well as for end user computing individuals, to making sure to take advantage of, these VDI decibels service topic capability. So in that context, what we are providing now to this CIOs who are going through, this difficult time is, a platform, in which they can move their workloads from cloud to cloud, based on their needs, with freedom of choice. Look, one of these big banks that Monica and I visited in France, huge global bank. They have a workloads on AWS, they have workload on Azure, they have workloads on Google, workloads on (indistinct), the local XP, they have workloads in Germany. They have workloads providers in Asia, in Taiwan, and other locations. On top of that, they're also using Nutanix on-prem as well as Nutanix cloud, our own cloud services for VR. And then, this is not just in this nation. This is an operating model. So the biggest request from them is, look, can you guys make this cost effective? Can we use, all these operating models and move our data, and applications from cloud to cloud? In simple terms, can we get, some kind of a flexibility with commits as well as we pay credits they paid for so far? And, those are things we're working on. And I'm sure Monica is going to get a little bit more into detail, as we talk to this. You are super excited, to start this journey with AWS, with this launch, but you're not going to stop there. Our goal is, we just kind of discussed with Monica earlier, provide freedom of choice across multiple clouds, both on-prem and off-prem, for our customers to cut costs, and to focus on what's important for them. >> Yeah, and I would just add, to sum it up, we are really simplifying the multicloud complexity for our customers. And I can go into more detail, but that's really the gist of it. Is what Nutanix is doing with this announcement, and more coming up in the future. >> Well, Monica, when I think about customers, and how do they decide, what stays in their data center, what goes into the public cloud? It's really their application portfolio. I need to look at my workloads, I need to look at my skillset. So, when I look at the cluster solution, what are some of the key use cases? What workloads are going to be the first ones that you expect, or you're having customers use with it today? >> Sure. And as we talk to customers too, this clearly few key use cases that they've been trying to, build a hybrid strategy around. The first few ones are bursting into cloud, right? In case of, a demand of sudden demand, how do I burst and scale my, let's say a VDI environment. or database environment into the cloud? So that's clearly one that many of our customers want to be able to do simply, and without having to incur this extreme complexity of managing these environments. Number two, it's about DR, and we saw with COVID, right? Business continuity became a big deal for many organizations. They weren't prepared for it. So the ability to actually spin up your applications and data in the cloud seamlessly, in case of a disaster, that's another big use case. The third one, of which many customers talk about is, can I lift and shift my applications as is, into the cloud? Without having to rewrite a single line of code, or without having to rewrite all of it, right? That's another one. And last but not least, the one that we're also hearing a lot about is, how do I extend my current applications by using cloud native services, that's available on public cloud? So those are four, there's many more, of course. But in terms of workloads, I mentioned two examples, right? VDI, which is Virtual Desktop Infrastructure, and is a computing, and also databases. More and more of our customers, don't want to invest in again having, on-premises data center assets sitting there idly. And, wait for when the capacity surges, the demand for capacity surges, they want to be able to do that in the cloud. So I'd say those are the few use cases and workloads. One thing I want to go back to what Tarkan was talking about, really their three key reasons, why the current hybrid cloud solutions, haven't really panned out for customers. Number one, it's having a unified management environment across public and private cloud. There's a few solutions out there, but none of them have proved to be simple enough, to actually put into real execution. You know, with Nutanix, the one thing you can do is literally build a hybrid cloud within, under an hour. Under an hour, you can spin up Nutanix Clusters, which you have on-premises, the same exact cluster in Amazon, under one hour. There you go. And you have the same exact management plan, that we offer on-prem, that now can manage your AWS Nutanix Clusters. It's that easy, right? And then, you can easily move your data and applications across, if you choose to. You want to move and burst into public cloud? Do it. You want to keep some stuff on-prem? Do it. If you're going to develop in the cloud, do it. Want to keep production on-prem, do it. Single management plan, seamless mobility. And the third point is about cost. Simplicity of managing the costs, making sure you know, how you're going to incur costs. How about, if you can hibernate your AWS cluster when you're not using it? We allow the... We have the capability now in our software to do that. How about knowing, where to place which workload. Which workload goes into public cloud, which stays on-premises. We have an amazing tool called beam, that gives the customers that ability to assess, which is the right cloud for the right workload. So I can go on and on about this. You know, we've talked to so many customers, but this is in a nutshell. You know, the use cases and workloads that we are delivering to customers right out the gate. >> Well, Monica, I'd love to hear a little bit about the customers that have had early access to this. What customer stories can you share? Understand of course? You're probably going to need to anonymize. But, I'd like to understand, how they've been leveraging clusters, the value that they're getting from it. >> Absolutely. We've been working with a number of customers. And I'll give you a few examples. There's a customer in Australia, I'll start with that. And they basically run a big event that happens every five years for them. And that they have to scale something to 24 million people. Now imagine, if they have to keep capacity on site, anticipating the needs for five years in a row, well, they can't do that. And the big event is going to happen next year for them. So they are getting ready with now clusters, to really expand the VDI environments into the cloud, in a big way with AWS. So from Nutanix on-prem to AWS, and expand VDI and burst into the cloud. So that's one example. That's obviously when you have an event-driven capacity bursting into the cloud. Another customer, who is in the insurance business. For them, DR is of course very important. I mean, DR is important for every industry in every business. But for them, they realize that they need to be able to, transparently run the applications in the case of a disaster on the cloud. So they've been using non Nutanix Clusters with AWS to do that. Another customer is looking at lifting and shifting some of the database applications into, AWS with Nutanix, for example. And then we have yet another customer who's looking at retiring, their a part of the data center estate, and moving that completely to AWS, with Nutanix as a backbone, Nutanix Clusters as a backbone. I mean, and we have tons of examples of customers who during COVID, for example, were able to burst capacity, and spin up hundreds and thousands of remote employees, using clusters into AWS cloud. Using Citrix also by the way, as the desktop provider. So again, I can go on, we have tons of customers. There's obviously a big demand for the solution. Because now it's so easy to use. We have customers, really surprised going, "Wait, I now have built a whole hybrid card within an hour. And I was able to scale from, six nodes, to 60 nodes, just like that, on AWS cloud from on-prem six nodes, to 16 in AWS cloud. Our customers are really, really pleasantly surprised with the ease of use, and how quickly they can scale, using clusters in AWS. >> Yeah. Tarkan I have to imagine that, this is a real change for the conversation you have with customers. I mean, Nutanix has been partner with AWS for a number of years. I remember the first time that I saw Nutanix, at the reinvent show. But, cloud is definitely front and center, in a lot of your customer's conversations. So, with your partners, with your customers, has to be just a whole different aspect, to the conversations that you can have. >> Actually Stu, as you heard from Monica too. As I mentioned earlier, this is not just a destination for the customers, right? I know you using these buzzwords, at the end of day, there's an open end model. If it's an open end model they want to take advantage of, to cut costs and do more with less. So in that context, as you heard, even in this conversation, there is many pinpoint in this. Like again, being able to move the workloads from location to location, cost optimize those things, provide a streamlined operations. Again, as Monica suggested, making the apps, and the data relating those apps mobile, and obviously provide built-in networking capabilities. All those capabilities make it easier for them to cut costs. So we're hearing constantly, from the enterprises is small and large, private sector and public sector, nothing different. Clearly they have options. They want to have the freedom of choice. Some of these workloads are going to run on-prem, some of them off prem. And off prem is going to have, tons of different radiations. So in that context, as I mentioned earlier, we have our own cloud as well. We provide 20 plus skews to 17,000 customers around the world. It's a $2 billion software business run rate is as you know. And, a lot of those questions on-prem customers now, also coming to our own cloud services. With cloud partners, we have our own cloud services, with our own billing, payments, logistics, and service capabilities. With a credit card, you can actually, you can do DR. (mumbles) a service to Nutanix itself. But some of these customers also want to go be able to go to AWS, or Azure, or to a local service provider. Sometimes it's US companies, we think US only. But think about this, this is a global phenomenon. I have customers in India. We have customers in Australia as Monica talked about. In China, in Japan, in Germany. And some of these enterprise customers, public sector customers, they want to DR, Disaster Recovery as a service to a local service provider, within the country. Because of the new data governance, laws and security concerns, they don't want the data and us, to go outside of the boundaries of the country. In some cases, in the same continent, if you're in Switzerland, not even forget about the country, the same city. So we want to make sure, we give capabilities for customers, use the cloud as an operating model the way they want. And as part of this, just you know Stu, you're not alone in this, we can not do this alone. We have, tremendous level of partner support as you're going to see in the new announcements. From HP as one of our key partners, Lenovo, AMD, Intel, Fujitsu, Citrix for end user computing. You're partnering with Palo Alto networks for security, Azure partners, as you know we support (indistinct). We have partners like Red Hat, whose in tons of work in the Linux front. We partnered with IBM, we partner with Dell. So, the ecosystem makes it so much easier for our customers, especially with this pandemic backdrop. And I think what you're going to see from Nutanix, more partners, more customer proof points, to help the customers innovate the cut costs, in this difficult backdrop. Especially for the next 24 months, I think what you're going to see is, tremendous so to speak adoption, of this multicloud approach that you're focusing on right now. >> Yeah, and let me add, I know our partner list is long. So Tarkan also, we have the global size, of course. The WebPros, and HCL, and TCS, and Capgemini, and Zensar, you name it all. We're working with all of them to bring clusters based solutions to market. And, for the entire Nutanix stack, also partners like Equinix and Yoda. So it's a long list of partnerships. The one thing I did want to bring up Stu, which I forgot to mention earlier, and Tarkan reminded me is a superior architecture. So why is it that Nutanix can deliver this now to customers, right? I mean, our customers have been trying to build hybrid cloud for a little while now, and work across multiple clouds. And, we know it's been complex. The reason why we are able to deliver this in the way we are, is because of our architecture. The way we've architected clusters with AWS is, it's built in native network integration. And what that means is, if your customer and end user who's a practitioner, you can literally see the Nutanix VMs, in the same space as Amazon VMs. So for a customer, it's in the exact same space, it's really easy to then use other AWS services. And we bypass any, complex and latency issues with networking, because we are exactly part of AWS VPC for the customer. And also, the customers can use by the way, the Amazon credits, with the way we've architected this. And we allow for bringing your own license, by the way. That's the other true part about simplicity is, same license that our customers use on-premises today for Nutanix, can be brought exactly the same way to AWS, if they choose to. And now of course, we do also offer other licensing models that are cloud only. But I want to point out that DVIOL is something that we are very proud of. It's truly enabling, bring your own license to AWS cloud in this case. >> Well, it's interesting, Monica. Of course, one of the things everybody's watched of Nutanix over the last few years is that move, from an appliance primarily to a software model. And, as an industry as a whole, it's much more moving to the cloud model for pricing. And it sounds like, that's the primary model with some flexibility and options that you have, when you're talking about the cluster solution here, is that correct? >> Yeah, we also offer the pay as you go model of course, and cloud as popular. So, customers can decide they just want to pay for the amount they use, that's fine. Or they can bring their existing on-prem license, to AWS. Or we also have a commit model, where they commit for a certain capacity for the year, and they go with that. So we have two or three different kinds of models. Again, going with the freedom of choice for our customers. We offer them different models they can choose from. But to me, the best part is to bring your own license model. That's again, a true hybrid pricing model here. They can choose to use Nutanix where they want to. >> Yeah. Well, and Monica, I'm glad you brought up some of the architectural pieces here. 'Cause you talked about all the partners that you have out there. If I'm sitting in the partner world, I've been heard nothing over the last few years, but I've been inundated by all of the hybrid solutions. So, every public cloud provider, including AWS now, is talking about hybrid solutions. You've got virtualization players, infrastructure players, all talking out there. So, architecture you talked a bit about. Anything else, key differentiators that you want people to understand, as what sets Nutanix apart from the crowd, when it comes to hybrid cloud. >> Well, like I said, it's because of our architecture, you can build a hybrid cloud in under an hour. I mean, prove to me if you can do with other providers. And again, I don't mean that, having that ego. But really, I mean, honestly for our customers, it's all about how can we, speed up a customer's experience to cloud. So, building a cloud under an hour, being able to truly manage it with a single plan, being able to move apps and data, with one click in many cases. And last but not least, the license portability. All of that together. I think the way, (indistinct) I've talked about this as, we may not have been the first to market, but we believe they are the best to market in this space today. That's what I would say. >> Tarkan and I'd love to hear a little bit of the vision. So, with Monica kind of alluded to, anybody that kind of digs underneath the covers is, it's bare metal offerings from the cloud providers that are enabling this technology. There was a certain partnership that AWS had, that enabled this, and now you're taking advantage of it. What do you feel when you look at clusters going forward, give us a little bit what should we be looking for, when it comes to AWS and maybe even beyond. >> Thank you Stu. Actually, is spot on question. Most companies in the space, they follow these buzzwords, right? (indistinct) multicloud. And when you killed on, you and you find out, okay, you support two cloud services, and you actually own some kind of a marketplace. And you're one of the 19,000 services. We don't see this as a multicloud. Our view is, complete freedom of choice. So our vision includes a couple of our private clouds, government clouds success with our customers. We've got enterprise commercial and public sector customers. Also delivered to them choice, with Nutanix is own cloud as I mentioned earlier. With our own billing payment, we're just as capable starting with DR as a service, Disaster Recovery as a service. But take that to next level, the database as a service, with VDI based up as a service, and other services that we deliver. But on top of that also, as Monica talked about earlier, partnerships we have, with service providers, like Yoda in India, a lot going on with SoftBank in Japan, Brooklyn going on with OBH in France. And multiple countries that we are building this XSP (indistinct) telco relationships, give those international customers, choice within that own local region, in their own country, in some cases in their city, where they are, making sure the network latency is not an issue. Security, data governance, is not an issue. And obviously, third leg of this multilayer stool is, hyperscalers themselves like AWS. AWS has been a phenomenal partner, working with Doug (indistinct), Matt Garmin, the executive team under Andy Jassy and Jeff Bezos, biggest super partners. Obviously, that bare metal service capability, is huge differentiator. And with the typical AWS simplicity. And obviously, with Nutanix simplicity coming together. But given choice to our customers as we move forward obviously, our customer set a multicloud strategy. So I'm reading an amazing book called Silk Roads. It's an amazing book. I strongly suggest you all read it. It's all talking about partnerships. Throughout the history, those empires, those countries who have been successful, partnered well, connect the dots well. So that's what we're trying to learn from our own history. Connecting dots with the customers and partners as we talked about earlier. Working with companies that with Wipro. And we over deliver to the end user computer service called, best of a service door to desk. Database as a service, digital data services get that VA to other new services started in HCL and others. So all these things come together as a complete end to end strategy with our partners. So we want to make sure, as we move forward in upcoming weeks and months, you're going to see, these announcements coming up, one partner at a time. And obviously we are going to measure success, one customer at a time as we more forward with the strategy. >> All right. So Monica, you mentioned that if you were an existing Nutanix customer, you can spin up in the public cloud, in under an hour. I guess final question I have for you is, number one, if I'm not yet a Nutanix customer, is this something I could start in the public cloud. and leverage some capabilities? And, whether I'm an existing customer or a prospect, how do I get started with Nutanix Clusters? >> Absolutely. We are all about making it easy for our customers to get started. So in fact, I know seeing is believing. So if you go to nutanix.com today, you'll see we have a link there for something called a test drive. So we are giving our prospects, and customers the ability to go try this out. Either just take a tour, or even do a 30 day free trial today. So they can try it out. They can just get spun up in the cloud completely, and then connect to on-premises if they choose to. Or just, if they choose to stay in public cloud only with Nutanix, that's absolutely the customer choice. And I would say this is really, only the beginning for us as Tarkan was saying. I mean, I'm just really super excited about our future, and how we are going to enable customers, to use cloud for innovation going forward. In a really simple, manner that's cost efficient for our customers. >> All right. Well, Monica and Tarkan, thank you so much for sharing the updates. Congratulations to the team on bringing this solution out. And as you said, just the beginning. So, we look forward to, talking to you, your partners, and your customers going forward. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you Stu. Thank you, Monica. >> Hi, and welcome back. We've just heard Nutanix's announcement about Nutanix Clusters on AWS, from Monica and Tarkan, And, to help understand some of the specific implications for the Asia Pacific and Japan region. Happy to welcome Justin Hurst, who is the CTO, for APJ with Nutanix. Justin, thanks for joining us. >> Well, thanks Stu. Thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. So, we know Justin of course, 2020, has had a lot of changes, for everyone globally. Heard some exciting news from your team. And, wondering if you can bring us inside the APJ region. And what will the impact specifically be for your customers in your region? >> Yeah, let's say, that's a great question. And, it has been a tremendously unusual year, of course, for everyone. We're all trying, to figure out how we can adapt. And how we can take this opportunity, to not only respond to the situation, but actually build our businesses in a way, that we can be more agile going forward. So, we're very excited about this announcement. And, the new capabilities it's going to bring to our customers in the region. >> Justin, one of the things we talk about is, right now, there's actually been an acceleration of how customers are looking to On-Ramp to the cloud. So when you look at the solution, what's the operational impact of Nutanix Clusters? And that acceleration to the cloud? >> Well, sure. And I think that, is really what we're trying to accomplish here, with this new technology is to take away a lot of the pain, in onboarding to the public cloud. For many customers I talk to, the cloud is aspirational at this point. They may be experimenting. They may have a few applications they've, spun up in the cloud or using a SaaS service. But really getting those core applications, into the public cloud, has been something they've struggled with. And so, by harmonizing the control plan and the data plan, between on-premises and the public cloud, we just completely remove that barrier, and allow that mobility, that's been, something people have really been looking forward to. >> All right, well, Justin, of course, the announcement being with AWS, is the global leader in public cloud. But we've seen the cluster solution, when has been discussed in earlier days, isn't necessarily only for AWS. So, what can you tell us about your customer's adoption with AWS, and maybe what we should look at down the road for clusters with other solutions? >> Yeah, for sure. Now of course, AWS is the global market leader, which is why we're so happy to have this launch event today of clusters on AWS. But with many of our customers, depending on their region, or their regulatory requirements, they may want to work as well, with other providers. And so when we built the Nutanix cluster solution, we were careful not to lock in, to any specific provider. Which gives us options going forward, to meet our customer demands, wherever they might be. >> All right. Well, when we look at cloud, of course, the implications are one of the things we need to think about. We've seen a number of hybrid solutions out there, that haven't necessarily been the most economical. So, what are the financial considerations, when we look at this solution? >> Yeah, definitely. I think when we look at using the public cloud, it's important not to bring along, the same operational mindset, as traditional on-premise infrastructure. And that's the power of the cloud, is the elasticity. And the ability to burst workloads, to grow and to shrink as needed. And so, to really help contain those costs, we've built in this amazing ability, to hibernate workloads. So that customers can run them, when they need them. Whether it's a seasonal business, whether it's something in education, where students are coming and going, for different terms. We've built this functionality, that allows you to take traditional applications that would normally run on-premises 24/7. And give them that elasticity of the public cloud, really combining the best of both worlds. And then, building tooling and automation around that. So it's not just guesswork. We can actually tell you, when to spin up a workload, or where to place a workload, to get the best financial impact. >> All right, Justin, final question for you is, this has been the works on Nutanix working on the cluster solution world for a bit now. What's exciting you, that you're going to be able to bring this to your customers? >> Yeah. There's a lot of new capabilities, that get unlocked by this new technology. I think about a customer I was talking to recently, that's expanding their business geographically. And, what they didn't want to do, was invest capital in building up a new data center, in a new region. Because here in APJ, the region is geographically vast, and connectivity can vary tremendously. And so for this company, to be able to spin up, a new data center effectively, in any AWS region around the world, really enables them to bring the data and the applications, to where they're expanding their business, without that capital outlay. And so, that's just one capability, that we're really excited about. And we think we'll have a big impact, in how people do business. And keeping those applications and data, close to where they're doing that business. >> All right. Well, Justin, thank you so much for giving us a look inside the APJ region. And congratulations to you and the team, on the Nutanix Clusters announcement. >> Thanks so much for having me Stu. >> All right. And thank you for watching I'm Stu Miniman. Thank you for watching theCUBE. (soft music)

(upbeat music) >> From the Cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is the CUBE Conversation. >> Hey everybody this is Dave Vellante and welcome to the special CUBE Conversation. I'm really excited to have Keith Bradley here he's the Vice President of IT at Nature Fresh Farms. Keith good to see you. >> Hey, good to see you too there Dave. >> All right, first of all I got to thank you for sending me these awesome veggies. I got these wonderful peppers. I got red, orange. I got the yellow. I got to tell you Keith these tomatoes almost didn't make it. It's my last one on the vine. >> (Laughs) >> These guys are like candy. It's amazing. >> Yap. They are the tasty thing. >> Wonderful. >> You know what, I'll probably just join you right here now too. I'll have one right here right now and I'll join you right now. >> My kids love these but I'm not bringing them home. And then I got these other grape tomatoes and then I've got these mini pepper poppers that are so sweet. You know which one I'm talking about here. And then we've got the tomatoes on the vine. I mean, it's just unbelievable that you guys are able to do this in a greenhouse. Big cukes, little cukes. Wow. Thank you so much for sending these. Delicious. Really appreciate it. >> Yeah. Well thank you for having them. It's a great little tree and it's something that I know you're going to enjoy. And I love for everybody to have it and there's not a person I haven't seen that hasn't enjoyed our tomatoes and peppers. >> Now tell me more about Nature Fresh Farms. Let's talk about your business I want to spend some time on that. We've got IoT, we got a data lifecycle. All kinds of cool stuff, scanners. Paint a picture for us. >> I like to even go... If you don't mind. I like to even go back to where our roots actually came from. So Peter Quiring, our owner actually was a builder by nature and he was actually back in the year 2000 really wanted to get into the greenhouse because he was a manufacturer. And he built our phase one facility back in 2000 under the concept that he said, "there's computers out there." And Peter will be the first one to say, "I don't know how to use them, "but I know that it can do a lot for us." So even back in 2000, we were starting to experiment with using the computers back then to control the greenhouse, to do much of the functionality. Then he bought it under the concept as our sister company, South Essex Fabricating that he would sell the greenhouse turnkey to somebody else. Well, talking to him and I've been around since about phase two. He basically said, "when I built phase three, "which is our first 32 acre range, I realized that is actually in the pepper business now," and he realized he was a grower and then he fell in love with the industry. And again, kept pushing how we can do things automated? How do we can do things? How do we get more yield, more everything out of what we do? And as a lover of technology he made it a great environment for everybody including the growers to work in and to just do something new. >> Well, I mean the thing that we know that as populations grow we're not getting more land. Okay (laughs). So, you have to get better yield and the answer is not to just pound vegetables with pesticides. So maybe talk about how you guys are different from sort of a conventional farming approach, just in terms of maybe your yield, how you treat the plants, how you're able to pick throughout the year, give us some insight there. >> So basically I'll start with through the lifecycle of a pepper. So it's basically planted at a propagator and then it comes to our facility and it comes in the little white boxes here behind me. And they actually are usually about that tall. They're about a foot tall. Maybe a little more when they come to us. And right from that point in time, we start keeping track of everything. How much we put water, how much water it doesn't take, what nutrients it takes, how much it weighs. We actually weigh the vines to know how much they are in real time. We do everything top to bottom. So we actually control the life cycle of the plant. On top of that, we also look and have a whole bio scout division. So it's a group of people that are starting to use AI to actually look at how the bugs are attacking the plants. And then at the same time, we release a good bug that will eventually die off to kill the bugs that are starting to harm the plant. So it basically allows us to basically do as close to natural way of growing a plant as possible without spraying or doing anything like that at night. It's actually funny 'cause there's a lot pictures out there and you think that a greenhouse, it's going to be wet in here. And actually for the most part, it is dry all the time. Like I'm very hot, it's very dry and it's just how we work. We don't let anything inside. We control everything in that plant's life. And now with our newest range, we even control how much light it gets. So we basically give it light all night too. And even some nights when it's a little days out, not like today, but when it's a little dark out and the sun's not up there, we'll actually make sure it gets more light to get that more yield out of it. So we can grow 24/7 12 months a year. >> Okay Keith. So it sounds like you're using data and AI to really inform you as to nature's best formula for the good bugs, the bad bugs, the lighting to really drive yields and quality. >> Yeah, we analyze, like I said, everything from the edge that we collect, like I said, we have over 2000 sensors out in the greenhouse and we keep expanding it more and more every year to collect everything from the length of the vine, the weight of the vine in real time. And we basically collect it from the day the plant is born to the day that we actually take it all out to be composted. We know how much light it got. Does it need to get light that day? We analyze everything in general and it allows us to take that data back in real time to make it better and to look at the past data to do better again. Like you hear, some times we have actually have a cart going by here now. That data from that cart, we'll go back to our growers and they will know how much weight they got out of that row in the next 15 to 20 minutes. So they can actually look, okay, how did that plant react to the sun, how's tomorrow? Does it need more nutrients? Does it need a little less? They take all that data from the core and make sure it's all accurate and as up to date as possible. >> So Keith, and maybe even you can give us approximations, but so how much acreage do you have? And how much acreage would you need with conventional farming techniques to get the kind of yields and quality that you guys are able to achieve? >> So we own 160 acres of greenhouse that's actually under glass. It's actually 200 acres total of land but what's 160 acres approximately of greenhouse that's actually under glass. 'A' we're always constantly growing. Our demand is up that that's why we grow so fast. Usually you're looking at both 12 to one. So for every foot squared of space, you're looking for equivalent is about 12 feet squared for a conventional farm. That's the general average. Mostly because we can harvest year round, we can continually harvest. We maximize the harvest amount and everything total. >> I'm also interested in your regime, your team. So obviously you're supporting from an IT perspective, but you've got all this AI going on. You've got this data life cycle. So what does the data team look like? >> We're actually... I always laugh though. I like to call our growers are basically data analysts. They're not really part of my IT team, but they basically have learned the role of how to analyze data. So we'll have basically one or two junior growers, per range. So probably about, I'd say about, we have about 10 to 12 junior growers and then one senior grower per whole farm. So probably about three or four senior growers at any one time. But my IT staff is actually about a team of four, five, including myself. And we are always constantly looking at how to improve data and how to automate the process. That's what drives us to do more. And that's where the robots even come in is every time we look at something, it's not even from an IT perspective, but even just from a picking perspective, how do we automate this? How do we do a better tomorrow? How do we continually clean this up? And it just never ends. And every year we look back, okay, it cost us a dollar per meter squared or per foot square for the people down South in America there now. We look at that and how do we do that better next year? How do we do better the next day? And it's a constant looking and it's something we look at refining and now that's why we're going so much into AI 'cause we want to not look at the data and decide what to do. We want the data to tell us what to do. >> You guys are on the cutting edge. I mean this is the future of farming. I wonder if we could talk about the IT, what does the IT group look like in the future of farming? I mean you guys, what's your infrastructure look like? Are you all in the cloud or you can't be in the cloud because this is really an extent of an IoT or an edge use case. Paint a picture of the IT infrastructure for us if you would. >> So the IT infrastructure it's a very large amount at the edge. We take a lot of the information from the edge and we bring it back to our core to do our analyzing. But for the most part, we don't really leverage the cloud much yet and most of it is on-prem. We are starting to experiment with moving out to the cloud. And a lot of it is, you'll laugh though, is because the farming and agriculture industry really was stagnant for a long time and not really stagnant, but just didn't really progress as fast as the rest of the world. So now they're just starting to catch up and realizing, wow, this is a growing industry. We can do a lot of cool things with technology in this range. And now it's just exploded. So I'm going to say in the next five to 10 years, you're going to see a lot more private clouds and things like that happening with us. I know we're right now starting to just look at creating with the VxRail, a private cloud, and a concept like that to start to test that water again of how to analyze and how to do more things onsite and in the cloud and leverage everything top to bottom. >> So you've got your own servers at the edge... So Intel based servers, what's your storage infrastructure look like? Maybe describe the network a little bit. >> Yap. Okay. So we are basically, I'll admit here, we are a Dell factory. We're basically everything top to bottom. Right now we're on an FX2, Dell FX2 platform. It's basically our core platform we've been using for the last five years. It does all of our analitics and stuff like that. And we have just transformed our unstructured data to Isilon. It's been one of the best things for us to clean that up and make things move forward. It was actually one of those things that management actually looked at me and kind of looked at me and said, "what are you nuts?" Because we basically bought our first Isilon and then four months later, I said, "I love this. I got to have more," because everybody loved it so much in the way of store things. So we actually doubled the size of it within four months, which was a great... It was actually very seamless to do, but we're now also in a position where the FX2 in that stage type of situation didn't quite work for us to expand it. It wasn't as easy to expand. So we wanted to get away that we could expand at a moment's notice. We can change, we can scale out much faster and do things easier. So that's why we're transforming to a VxRail to basically clean that up and allow us to expand as we grow. >> So you're essentially trying to replicate the agility and speed of the cloud but like you say, you're an edge use case. So you can't do everything in cloud. Is that the right way to think about it? You mentioned private cloud but just sort of cloud experience, but at the edge. >> Yeah. We try to keep everything at the edge. It just makes it a lot easier to control. Because we're so big. Think about it like you are bringing all this information back from everywhere. It's a lot of data to come back to one spot. So we're trying to push that more, to keep it at the edge so that we can analyze it right there in the moment instead of having to come back and do it but yeah. And I think you'll see in the next few years, a lot of change to the cloud, I think it'll start to be there, but again, like I said, the private cloud will probably be the way most will go. >> Okay. So I got to ask you then, I mean, you've really tested that agility over the last 60 days with this COVID pandemic. How were you able to respond? What role did data play? You had supply chain considerations. Obviously, you got a lot of online ordering going on. You got to get produce out. You've got social distancing. How were you able to handle that crisis? >> Well it was a really great thing for our team. Our team really came together in a great way. We had a lot of people that did have to go home and we started because we had so many ranges all over, already about a year and a half ago we started implementing an SD-WAN solution to allow us to connect to different areas and to do all kinds of stuff. So it was actually very quick for us to be able to send the others home. We used our VeloCloud SD-WAN to expand it. It was very seamless and we just started sending people home left, right and center. The staff that had to stay here, like the workers out in the greenhouse here now are offshore labor as we call it. They work great. They worked with at every moment of the day and they dug right in. We haven't lost heartbeat. Like actually our orders have gone up in the last... Through this COVID experience more than anything else. And it's really learned... It really helped from an IT perspective and I laugh about this and it's one of the greatest things about what I do, I love this moment, is where sometimes we were very hesitant to jump on this video collaboration. I said, "hey, that's a great way of doing this." But sometimes people they're very stuck in their ways and they love it and they're like, "I don't know about this whole team Zoom "and all that fun stuff," but because of this, they've now embraced it and it's actually really changed the way even they've worked. So in a way, it kind of sped up the processes of us becoming more agile that way in a way that would've taken a long time. They now love teams. They love being able to communicate that way. They love being able to just do a quick call. All that functionality has changed and even made us more efficient that way. (mumbles) >> How does this all affect your IT budget allocation? Did you get more budget? Was it flat budget? Did you have to shift budget to sort of work from home and securing the remote workers? Can you sort of describe that dynamic? >> So it did, I'll be true, there's no way around it to not up my budge. They basically said, "yep, "you have to do what you have to do. "We have to continue to function, "we cannot let our greenhouse go down "and what do you need to do to make it happen?" So I quickly contacted Dell and got things coming and improve our infrastructure as much as we could to get ready. I contacted (mumbles). I basically made it so that my team can support every single part of our facet from home if they actually had to go home. So for example, if I had to get stuck at home, I could do every single part of my job from home, including the growers as much as possible. So say our senior grower had to get home. I locked him up. He has to be able to see everything and do everything. So we actually expanded that very quickly and it was a cost to us. But again, there's no technology we didn't implement that we hadn't talked about before. We just hadn't said, "you know what? It's just not the right time to try that." And now we just went ahead and we just said, we got to do it now. And there's not one part of our aspect that we don't reuse. >> Was Dell able to deliver? Did they have supply constraint issues? I mean, I know there's been huge demand for that whole remote worker. Were able to get what you needed in time? >> Yeah. You know what, I think that we hit it a little ahead of the scope of when things started to go bad, our senior management, our president and all that. He basically said, "you know Keith, "we got to get ready on this. "We got to get some stuff coming." We never ran out of some things. The quirkiest thing and it is just a reality, the biggest thing was webcams was to kind of trying to get webcams. Other than that, there was issues with UPS and Purolator and FedEx because they were just inundated too. But for the most part, we kept everything moving. There wasn't a time that I was actually really waiting on something that we had to have. One of the other great things of our senior team that's here is they've really given me the latitude to say, "what do you need and how do you need to do it?" And so I have my own basically storage area of stuff everywhere. And my team does laugh at me 'cause they call me a hoarder and I basically have too much. And we were able to use either some older stuff or some newer stuff and combine it and we got everything running. There was only a little hiccups here and there but nothing ever is going to go perfect. >> Yeah. But it's enabling business results. We've asked a lot of it pros like yourself like what do you expect the shape of the recovery? And obviously our hearts go out to those small businesses that have been decimated. You're clearly seeing industries like airlines and hospitality and restaurants are obviously in rough shape, but there is a bifurcated story here. Some businesses and it sounds like in this camp where the pandemic was actually a tailwind, your online demand is up, food, vegetables, people... There were a lot of meat shortages. So people really turn to vegetables, is that right? Is that the shape of the recovery actually, is maybe not even V-shape, it's been a tailwind for Nature Fresh Farms. >> Yeah. You know what? It has been a tailwind and that's the right way to say it. We've just increased our yieldage. We've increased that, it's not unnew for us, that's been the biggest driving force for us is basically the demand for our product and building fast enough to keep up to that demand. Like we continually build and expand. We've got more ranges being built in the coming years like looking towards the 21, 22, 23 year. It's just going to just continue to expand and that is purely because of demand. And this COVID just again, escalated that little bit 'cause everybody's like, I really want the peppers and like you learned, we actually do have some tasty peppers and tomatoes. So it does make it a nice little treat to have at home for the kids. >> Well, it's an amazing story of tech meets farming. And as you said for years your industry kind of became quiet when it came to tech, but this is the future of farming, in my opinion. And Keith, thanks so much for coming on the CUBE and sharing the story of Nature Fresh Farms. >> Well, thank you for having me. It's been a great pleasure. >> Alright. Thank you for watching everybody this is Dave Vellante for the CUBE and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> From the Cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is the CUBE Conversation. >> Hey everybody this is Dave Vellante and welcome to the special CUBE Conversation. I'm really excited to have Keith Bradley here he's the Vice President of IT at Nature Fresh Farms. Keith good to see you. >> Hey, good to see you too there Dave. >> All right, first of all I got to thank you for sending me these awesome veggies. I got these wonderful peppers. I got red, orange. I got the yellow. I got to tell you Keith these tomatoes almost didn't make it. It's my last one on the vine. >> (Laughs) >> These guys are like candy. It's amazing. >> Yap. They are the tasty thing. >> Wonderful. >> You know what, I'll probably just join you right here now too. I'll have one right here right now and I'll join you right now. >> My kids love these but I'm not bringing them home. And then I got these other grape tomatoes and then I've got these mini pepper poppers that are so sweet. You know which one I'm talking about here. And then we've got the tomatoes on the vine. I mean, it's just unbelievable that you guys are able to do this in a greenhouse. Big cukes, little cukes. Wow. Thank you so much for sending these. Delicious. Really appreciate it. >> Yeah. Well thank you for having them. It's a great little tree and it's something that I know you're going to enjoy. And I love for everybody to have it and there's not a person I haven't seen that hasn't enjoyed our tomatoes and peppers. >> Now tell me more about Nature Fresh Farms. Let's talk about your business I want to spend some time on that. We've got IoT, we got a data lifecycle. All kinds of cool stuff, scanners. Paint a picture for us. >> I like to even go... If you don't mind. I like to even go back to where our roots actually came from. So Peter Quiring, our owner actually was a builder by nature and he was actually back in the year 2000 really wanted to get into the greenhouse because he was a manufacturer. And he built our phase one facility back in 2000 under the concept that he said, "there's computers out there." And Peter will be the first one to say, "I don't know how to use them, "but I know that it can do a lot for us." So even back in 2000, we were starting to experiment with using the computers back then to control the greenhouse, to do much of the functionality. Then he bought it under the concept as our sister company, South Essex Fabricating that he would sell the greenhouse turnkey to somebody else. Well, talking to him and I've been around since about phase two. He basically said, "when I built phase three, "which is our first 32 acre range, I realized that is actually in the pepper business now," and he realized he was a grower and then he fell in love with the industry. And again, kept pushing how we can do things automated? How do we can do things? How do we get more yield, more everything out of what we do? And as a lover of technology he made it a great environment for everybody including the growers to work in and to just do something new. >> Well, I mean the thing that we know that as populations grow we're not getting more land. Okay (laughs). So, you have to get better yield and the answer is not to just pound vegetables with pesticides. So maybe talk about how you guys are different from sort of a conventional farming approach, just in terms of maybe your yield, how you treat the plants, how you're able to pick throughout the year, give us some insight there. >> So basically I'll start with through the lifecycle of a pepper. So it's basically planted at a propagator and then it comes to our facility and it comes in the little white boxes here behind me. And they actually are usually about that tall. They're about a foot tall. Maybe a little more when they come to us. And right from that point in time, we start keeping track of everything. How much we put water, how much water it doesn't take, what nutrients it takes, how much it weighs. We actually weigh the vines to know how much they are in real time. We do everything top to bottom. So we actually control the life cycle of the plant. On top of that, we also look and have a whole bio scout division. So it's a group of people that are starting to use AI to actually look at how the bugs are attacking the plants. And then at the same time, we release a good bug that will eventually die off to kill the bugs that are starting to harm the plant. So it basically allows us to basically do as close to natural way of growing a plant as possible without spraying or doing anything like that at night. It's actually funny 'cause there's a lot pictures out there and you think that a greenhouse, it's going to be wet in here. And actually for the most part, it is dry all the time. Like I'm very hot, it's very dry and it's just how we work. We don't let anything inside. We control everything in that plant's life. And now with our newest range, we even control how much light it gets. So we basically give it light all night too. And even some nights when it's a little days out, not like today, but when it's a little dark out and the sun's not up there, we'll actually make sure it gets more light to get that more yield out of it. So we can grow 24/7 12 months a year. >> Okay Keith. So it sounds like you're using data and AI to really inform you as to nature's best formula for the good bugs, the bad bugs, the lighting to really drive yields and quality. >> Yeah, we analyze, like I said, everything from the edge that we collect, like I said, we have over 2000 sensors out in the greenhouse and we keep expanding it more and more every year to collect everything from the length of the vine, the weight of the vine in real time. And we basically collect it from the day the plant is born to the day that we actually take it all out to be composted. We know how much light it got. Does it need to get light that day? We analyze everything in general and it allows us to take that data back in real time to make it better and to look at the past data to do better again. Like you hear, some times we have actually have a cart going by here now. That data from that cart, we'll go back to our growers and they will know how much weight they got out of that row in the next 15 to 20 minutes. So they can actually look, okay, how did that plant react to the sun, how's tomorrow? Does it need more nutrients? Does it need a little less? They take all that data from the core and make sure it's all accurate and as up to date as possible. >> So Keith, and maybe even you can give us approximations, but so how much acreage do you have? And how much acreage would you need with conventional farming techniques to get the kind of yields and quality that you guys are able to achieve? >> So we own 160 acres of greenhouse that's actually under glass. It's actually 200 acres total of land but what's 160 acres approximately of greenhouse that's actually under glass. 'A' we're always constantly growing. Our demand is up that that's why we grow so fast. Usually you're looking at both 12 to one. So for every foot squared of space, you're looking for equivalent is about 12 feet squared for a conventional farm. That's the general average. Mostly because we can harvest year round, we can continually harvest. We maximize the harvest amount and everything total. >> I'm also interested in your regime, your team. So obviously you're supporting from an IT perspective, but you've got all this AI going on. You've got this data life cycle. So what does the data team look like? >> We're actually... I always laugh though. I like to call our growers are basically data analysts. They're not really part of my IT team, but they basically have learned the role of how to analyze data. So we'll have basically one or two junior growers, per range. So probably about, I'd say about, we have about 10 to 12 junior growers and then one senior grower per whole farm. So probably about three or four senior growers at any one time. But my IT staff is actually about a team of four, five, including myself. And we are always constantly looking at how to improve data and how to automate the process. That's what drives us to do more. And that's where the robots even come in is every time we look at something, it's not even from an IT perspective, but even just from a picking perspective, how do we automate this? How do we do a better tomorrow? How do we continually clean this up? And it just never ends. And every year we look back, okay, it cost us a dollar per meter squared or per foot square for the people down South in America there now. We look at that and how do we do that better next year? How do we do better the next day? And it's a constant looking and it's something we look at refining and now that's why we're going so much into AI 'cause we want to not look at the data and decide what to do. We want the data to tell us what to do. >> You guys are on the cutting edge. I mean this is the future of farming. I wonder if we could talk about the IT, what does the IT group look like in the future of farming? I mean you guys, what's your infrastructure look like? Are you all in the cloud or you can't be in the cloud because this is really an extent of an IoT or an edge use case. Paint a picture of the IT infrastructure for us if you would. >> So the IT infrastructure it's a very large amount at the edge. We take a lot of the information from the edge and we bring it back to our core to do our analyzing. But for the most part, we don't really leverage the cloud much yet and most of it is on-prem. We are starting to experiment with moving out to the cloud. And a lot of it is, you'll laugh though, is because the farming and agriculture industry really was stagnant for a long time and not really stagnant, but just didn't really progress as fast as the rest of the world. So now they're just starting to catch up and realizing, wow, this is a growing industry. We can do a lot of cool things with technology in this range. And now it's just exploded. So I'm going to say in the next five to 10 years, you're going to see a lot more private clouds and things like that happening with us. I know we're right now starting to just look at creating with the VxRail, a private cloud, and a concept like that to start to test that water again of how to analyze and how to do more things onsite and in the cloud and leverage everything top to bottom. >> So you've got your own servers at the edge... So Intel based servers, what's your storage infrastructure look like? Maybe describe the network a little bit. >> Yap. Okay. So we are basically, I'll admit here, we are a Dell factory. We're basically everything top to bottom. Right now we're on an FX2, Dell FX2 platform. It's basically our core platform we've been using for the last five years. It does all of our analitics and stuff like that. And we have just transformed our unstructured data to Isilon. It's been one of the best things for us to clean that up and make things move forward. It was actually one of those things that management actually looked at me and kind of looked at me and said, "what are you nuts?" Because we basically bought our first Isilon and then four months later, I said, "I love this. I got to have more," because everybody loved it so much in the way of store things. So we actually doubled the size of it within four months, which was a great... It was actually very seamless to do, but we're now also in a position where the FX2 in that stage type of situation didn't quite work for us to expand it. It wasn't as easy to expand. So we wanted to get away that we could expand at a moment's notice. We can change, we can scale out much faster and do things easier. So that's why we're transforming to a VxRail to basically clean that up and allow us to expand as we grow. >> So you're essentially trying to replicate the agility and speed of the cloud but like you say, you're an edge use case. So you can't do everything in cloud. Is that the right way to think about it? You mentioned private cloud but just sort of cloud experience, but at the edge. >> Yeah. We try to keep everything at the edge. It just makes it a lot easier to control. Because we're so big. Think about it like you are bringing all this information back from everywhere. It's a lot of data to come back to one spot. So we're trying to push that more, to keep it at the edge so that we can analyze it right there in the moment instead of having to come back and do it but yeah. And I think you'll see in the next few years, a lot of change to the cloud, I think it'll start to be there, but again, like I said, the private cloud will probably be the way most will go. >> Okay. So I got to ask you then, I mean, you've really tested that agility over the last 60 days with this COVID pandemic. How were you able to respond? What role did data play? You had supply chain considerations. Obviously, you got a lot of online ordering going on. You got to get produce out. You've got social distancing. How were you able to handle that crisis? >> Well it was a really great thing for our team. Our team really came together in a great way. We had a lot of people that did have to go home and we started because we had so many ranges all over, already about a year and a half ago we started implementing an SD-WAN solution to allow us to connect to different areas and to do all kinds of stuff. So it was actually very quick for us to be able to send the others home. We used our VeloCloud SD-WAN to expand it. It was very seamless and we just started sending people home left, right and center. The staff that had to stay here, like the workers out in the greenhouse here now are offshore labor as we call it. They work great. They worked with at every moment of the day and they dug right in. We haven't lost heartbeat. Like actually our orders have gone up in the last... Through this COVID experience more than anything else. And it's really learned... It really helped from an IT perspective and I laugh about this and it's one of the greatest things about what I do, I love this moment, is where sometimes we were very hesitant to jump on this video collaboration. I said, "hey, that's a great way of doing this." But sometimes people they're very stuck in their ways and they love it and they're like, "I don't know about this whole team Zoom "and all that fun stuff," but because of this, they've now embraced it and it's actually really changed the way even they've worked. So in a way, it kind of sped up the processes of us becoming more agile that way in a way that would've taken a long time. They now love teams. They love being able to communicate that way. They love being able to just do a quick call. All that functionality has changed and even made us more efficient that way. (mumbles) >> How does this all affect your IT budget allocation? Did you get more budget? Was it flat budget? Did you have to shift budget to sort of work from home and securing the remote workers? Can you sort of describe that dynamic? >> So it did, I'll be true, there's no way around it to not up my budge. They basically said, "yep, "you have to do what you have to do. "We have to continue to function, "we cannot let our greenhouse go down "and what do you need to do to make it happen?" So I quickly contacted Dell and got things coming and improve our infrastructure as much as we could to get ready. I contacted (mumbles). I basically made it so that my team can support every single part of our facet from home if they actually had to go home. So for example, if I had to get stuck at home, I could do every single part of my job from home, including the growers as much as possible. So say our senior grower had to get home. I locked him up. He has to be able to see everything and do everything. So we actually expanded that very quickly and it was a cost to us. But again, there's no technology we didn't implement that we hadn't talked about before. We just hadn't said, "you know what? It's just not the right time to try that." And now we just went ahead and we just said, we got to do it now. And there's not one part of our aspect that we don't reuse. >> Was Dell able to deliver? Did they have supply constraint issues? I mean, I know there's been huge demand for that whole remote worker. Were able to get what you needed in time? >> Yeah. You know what, I think that we hit it a little ahead of the scope of when things started to go bad, our senior management, our president and all that. He basically said, "you know Keith, "we got to get ready on this. "We got to get some stuff coming." We never ran out of some things. The quirkiest thing and it is just a reality, the biggest thing was webcams was to kind of trying to get webcams. Other than that, there was issues with UPS and Purolator and FedEx because they were just inundated too. But for the most part, we kept everything moving. There wasn't a time that I was actually really waiting on something that we had to have. One of the other great things of our senior team that's here is they've really given me the latitude to say, "what do you need and how do you need to do it?" And so I have my own basically storage area of stuff everywhere. And my team does laugh at me 'cause they call me a hoarder and I basically have too much. And we were able to use either some older stuff or some newer stuff and combine it and we got everything running. There was only a little hiccups here and there but nothing ever is going to go perfect. >> Yeah. But it's enabling business results. We've asked a lot of it pros like yourself like what do you expect the shape of the recovery? And obviously our hearts go out to those small businesses that have been decimated. You're clearly seeing industries like airlines and hospitality and restaurants are obviously in rough shape, but there is a bifurcated story here. Some businesses and it sounds like in this camp where the pandemic was actually a tailwind, your online demand is up, food, vegetables, people... There were a lot of meat shortages. So people really turn to vegetables, is that right? Is that the shape of the recovery actually, is maybe not even V-shape, it's been a tailwind for Nature Fresh Farms. >> Yeah. You know what? It has been a tailwind and that's the right way to say it. We've just increased our yieldage. We've increased that, it's not unnew for us, that's been the biggest driving force for us is basically the demand for our product and building fast enough to keep up to that demand. Like we continually build and expand. We've got more ranges being built in the coming years like looking towards the 21, 22, 23 year. It's just going to just continue to expand and that is purely because of demand. And this COVID just again, escalated that little bit 'cause everybody's like, I really want the peppers and like you learned, we actually do have some tasty peppers and tomatoes. So it does make it a nice little treat to have at home for the kids. >> Well, it's an amazing story of tech meets farming. And as you said for years your industry kind of became quiet when it came to tech, but this is the future of farming, in my opinion. And Keith, thanks so much for coming on the CUBE and sharing the story of Nature Fresh Farms. >> Well, thank you for having me. It's been a great pleasure. >> Alright. Thank you for watching everybody this is Dave Vellante for the CUBE and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of Women Transforming Technology. Brought to you by VMware. >> Welcome to theCUBE, I'm Lisa Martin covering the fifth annual Women Transforming Technology. The first year that this event has gone completely digital. We're very pleased to welcome back to theCUBE one of our favorite alumni, the Chief People Officer of VMware, Betsy Sutter. Betsy, welcome back! >> Oh, thank you, Lisa. It's great to see you and it's great to be back. Love this time of year. >> Likewise, me too. And you know, I've had the great opportunity and pleasure of covering WT2 for theCUBE the last few years so I know walking into that courtyard area in Palo Alto, VMware's headquarters, you feel the energy and the excitement, and it's really genuine. And so, knowing that you had to pivot a couple you know, eight weeks or so ago or more, to convert what is such an engaging in-person experience to digital, hard decision, the right decision, but huge in terms of the number of attendees. Tell us a little bit about that process of taking We Rise digital. >> Yeah, you know, it was a pretty quick decision. At VMWare, we were starting to virtualize some other events, and so in realtime, we said, "let's go ahead "and virtualize Women Transforming Technology 2020." And so, when we immediate, flipped to that mode, things started to really open up. The possibilities became pretty interesting. And so honestly, we did not imagine you know, the people attending would grow from roughly thousands to over 5,000. And that's what digitalizing the event, virtualizing the event did. And it was super fun to use technology to make it so much more inclusive and accessible for people around the world. I'm sure you've heard that we had over 5,000 people from over 500 companies represented from 30 different countries. So that was amazing in its own right. >> One of the things that I think was a great advantage knowing that this was the fifth one, but that you had the opportunity to build the community, and such a strong, tight-knight community over the last few years, I think was probably a great facilitator of the event being so much bigger digitally. But when I spoke with a number of your speakers, everybody said, and I saw the Twitter stream, that the engagement, it wasn't like they were watching a video. It was really interactive, and that is hard to achieve with digital. >> Yeah, you know, what I love about the technology was that there were chat rooms, and there were Q&A rooms. And so, there was a lot of back and forth in realtime, even while the speakers were talking. You could sort of multitask, and the speakers were really, really fun to interact with that way as well. And it's super fun to see people in their home environments. You know, it's a just a little bit more information about them, and they seem a little bit more relaxed too, so it was tremendous. Watching Laura Dern, who is an activist and an obviously a very famous actress, in her own home talking to us about the issues she's faced as a woman in her industry, and then moving to another woman named Kathryn Finney, who is the CEO of digitalundivided, in her home with all the activity, she had a four-year old sort of in the background, was super fun and really landed their conversations with us even more solidly. It was a great day. >> I heard that throughout Twitter that people really felt that there was a personal connection. Lot of people talking about, I'm sitting here zooming with Laura Dern, what are you doing today? And some of the things that she said about, you know, you don't have to stay in your own swimlane. That resonated with me and I think with your community very well. >> You know,the diversity, the eclecticness of the women that were able to join from around the world and from many different industries, but you know, technical women, women in tech, was, it just up-leveled everything and it fit into the theme of the conference which was "We Rise", because you know, you're trying to rise as an individual, but there we were rising as a collective for a full day, and the workshops were super fun. I mean I participated in a number of 'em, and I literally went through a workshop with I don't know how many women, but you know, I was drawing on paper then engaging on the screen, then chatting, using the Q&A feature. It was a really dynamic day. I'm wondering now if we'll ever go back, honestly. >> Right, well I was already thinking, "Wow, you can take WT to global and do original events." And there's so much opportunity right now. Tremendous amount of challenge but on the same time, there is a lot of opportunity. In fact, when I was speaking with Sharmain (mumbles) yesterday, it was amazing that she was talking about, you know, right now, like the percentage increase, in people actually reading email because they have more time to, the commute time is gone. And so her advice to be really vivid, in making yourself visual, in terms of how you communicate, and evaluate your role and how you can add new value during this challenging time and I thought that was such a powerful message because we do need to look at what opportunities are we going to be able to uncover? There will be certain things that will go away, to your point, maybe we do digital because we can engage, we can interact and we can reach a bigger audience and learn from more people. >> Yeah, I think that's spot on. I couldn't have said that better. And you could really feel it that day and then the response from both the attendees, but even the keynote speakers, both Laura and Kathryn reaching back to us and talking about the experience they had. It was a pretty uplifting day, I'm still flying pretty high from it. And it was Cinco de Mayo so there had to have been at least margaritas, skinny margaritas, maybe, you know, virgin margaritas. But something there to celebrate an accomplishment of doing something in a short period of undertaking that community and being able to push the energy through the screen is awesome. I'd love to understand, you've been the Chief People Officer at the VMware for a while, the COVID crisis is so challenging in every aspect of life. We often talk about disruption, you know, in technology, a technology disruptor, you know, video streaming was a technology disruptor and Uber was a disruptor to transportation and the taxi service, but now the disruption is an unseen, scary thing and so the emotional impact, people are talking and a number of your folks I spoke to as well said it's hard to be motivated but it's important to acknowledge that I don't feel so motivated today for managers to be able to have that check-in with our employees and our teams. Tell me a little bit about the culture of VMware and how maybe the "We Rise" theme is really kind of, pervasive across VMware right now. >> Yeah, you know, one of the things that I believe and that I've seen in the people business is that more and more people join communities, they join companies but they join communities and communities come together based on you know, their actions, their ideas, their behaviors and what I've seen in terms of VMware's response to COVID-19 has been pretty remarkable. I think at first, you know, we were in crisis mode, sort of going in triage mode about what we do to keep our people feeling safe and healthy. But now we're sort of in a mode of "okay, there's a lot of opportunity that this presents." Now, we are very very fortunate, very blessed to be in the industry that we're in, and a lot of what we do and build and provide for our customers and partners fits into this new business model of working distributedly, so there's been some highs and some lows as we've navigated. First and foremost, we've just put our employees first and their health and safety, making sure that they're comfortable is just been top of mind for us. We just did a small sentiment survey, six questions. Because about two weeks ago, I realized, "I wonder if we really know how people are feeling about this?" And one of the things that came through, I'll say this, out of 32,000 people within 24 hours, over 10,000 people responded to this six question survey, they wanted to tell us how they were doing. But over 70% said they felt, if not the same amount of connection but more connection with each other working in a distributed fashion. And I think COVID-19's brought that alive. That we're going to work in a new way, it's a new business model and so we're doing it at VMware and then we're really pleased that we can offer that to our customers and partners around the globe. >> You know, I'm glad that you talked about the employee experience because obviously, with any business, customers are critical to the life, blood of that business. But equally important, if not sometimes more impactful to the revenue of an organization is the employee experience and being productive day in and day out. And that, if the employee experience is, I think, I don't know, you can't have a good customer experience without a good employee experience. And to (mumbles) that focus is key. So it must have been really nice for the VMware employees to go, "they're wanting to know how I feel right now." That's huge for people to know, the executive team genuinely cares. >> Yeah, you know, Lisa, we have really amped up our communications. We have done more town halls, whether it's to our management community our leadership and executive community or to the whole company. Yesterday alone, I think I did six town halls and two ask-me-anythings just to make sure we know it's on top of people's minds, what's important to them and that's kind of the new normal. And it's so much easier, right? I'm not trying to get to places, I'm just kind of clicking on a button and I'm all of a sudden talking to the employees in India. And you know, when I talk to my colleagues in other industries, like, Beth Axelrod or Tracey Ballow, that are in the you know, the Marriott and the Air BnB industries, their challaneges are so different. And what they're facing in this short-term, in the medium term. VMware is in a position where we can really help these businesses and at the core of that is really, how well our employees are doing and so that's been our focus. >> One of the things that I also talked about yesterday with Jo Miller, the CEO of Be Leaderly, was the difference between a mentor and a sponsor. And I had never even understood that they were two different things until WT2. And so, I thought, you know, we all know about mentors, we talk about that all the time. But I, she was really, I think it's an important message for your audience and ours to understand the difference and she said, "people are often over-mentored and under-sponsored." And so I thought, well, "I want to understand VMware's culture of sponsorship." Tell me what's going on in that respect. >> Yeah, we're, well, I agree with everything that you said on the mentorship side and so what we've instituted on the mentorship side at VMware's reverse mentorship. So every executive at VMware has a reverse mentor, so that they can learn something that they might not be thinking about. And whether it's a reverse mentor who happens to be, if you're a man, who happens to be a woman, or if you want to engage with the under-represented minority, or if you just want to learn about the different aspect of the business, we're big on reverse mentoring. On the sponsorship side, we do do that. And that's a really important aspect to any company's culture if you're trying to cultivate talent. And sponsorship is really championship, right? And I know I champion a lot of people, a lot of the talent around the company and it's very different than maybe coaching, advicing, and interacting in that venue. It's more about, what's the right opportunity for this person? When I'm in the board room, or when I'm in the executive staff meeting, actually advocating for that person, and I'm fierce about that. Especially for women right now at VMware, and it's just important. And a lot of people are starting to adopt that mindset because there's a lot more power and influence in having sponsorship behind you than having mentorship. >> I completely agree. Are you saying that, you know, we often talk about the hard skills and then the soft skills. And I always think soft is the wrong word but I keep forgetting to look it up on the thesaurus to get a better word. Because right now, I think, more important than ever, looking at someone who might have all of the hard skills to be on this the track to the c-suite,  but the importance of authenticity and empathy, I think now are under a microscope. We talked a lot about that too with some of your guests, tell me little bit about those kinds of conversations, that came up during the interactive sessions with WT2. >> Yeah, well, you know, this is one of the blessings that's come out of COVID-19, and this pandemic is that people are starting to see, because everyone's impacted by this and not just in one way, but in multiple ways. So, there's really this once in a lifetime opportunity, at least as far as what I've seen in my lifetime, to seize this heightened level of compassion and empathy for all the people around you in terms of what we're doing. At WT2, I saw it a lot in terms of the quality of the conversations that were happening virtually and sometimes with the key notes and the guest speakers, with the audience, there was always a lead-in with compassion and empathy in terms of all of us. All of us, no matter where you are in the world, or no matter what you're doing, adjusting to what we're calling this new normal. And there's a new business normal but the new normal on the personal side I think is going to take a little bit longer, right? In terms of what people are managing. But in the business world, I think you know, people are starting to re-bound and rebuild, they're honing those skills, and they're going to be wiser and better because of it. But at the heart of it all is, as you said, a lot more compassion and empathy 'cause never before, have we all kind of gone through something quite so traumatic as COVID-19. >> Traumatic and surreal. And you know, we are all in this same storm and I think there's a level of comfort there, that I know I feel with knowing, okay, everyone is going to be feeling this rollercoaster at some point. Some days you're here, some days you're here. But we're all in this, whether you're, you know, in your role, or Pat Gelsinger or an individual contributor role, we're all in the same sea. Betsy, congratulations on a successful fifth WT2, first digital. I'm so glad the theCUBE and myself was able to participate digitally. It's always one of my favorite events every year and I look forward to seeing you again soon, which I soon will be digitally, but I look forward to it. >> Lisa, thank you so much and thanks for all of your sponsorship and mentorship with WT2 over the years too. Thank you. >> All right, you too. That was Betsy Sutter, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE's coverage of Women Transforming Technology 2. Thanks for watching, see you next time. (soft music)

>> From around the globe, it's the CUBE with digital coverage of Red Hat Summit 2020 brought to you by Red Hat. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman, and this is the CUBE's coverage of a Red Hat Summit 2020 happening digitally. We're connecting with Red Hat executives, thought leaders, practitioners, wherever they are around the globe, bringing them remotely into this online event. Happy to welcome back to the program, Joe Fernandez, who's the Vice President and General Manager, of Core Cloud Platforms with Red Hat. Joe, thanks so much for joining us. >> Yeah, thanks for having me. Glad to be here. >> All right, so, Joe, you know, Cloud, of course, has been a conversation we've been having for a lot of years. When I went to Red Hat Summit last year, when I went to IBM, I think last year, there was discussion of moving from kind of chapter one, if you will, to chapter two. Some of the labels that we put on things back in the early days, like Hybrid Cloud and Multicloud, they're coming into a little bit clearer picture. So, let's just give a high level, what you're seeing from your customers when they talk about Hybrid and Multicloud environment? What does that mean to your customers? And therefore, how is Red Hat meeting them where they are? >> Yeah, sure. So, Red Hat obviously, serves an enterprise customer base. And what we've seen in that customer base, really since the start and it's really informed our strategy, is the fact that all their applications aren't going to run in one place, right? So they're really employing a hybrid class strategy, a Hybrid and Multicloud strategy, that spans from their data centers out to a public cloud, typically then out to multiple public clouds as their cloud investments grow, as they move more applications. And now, even out to the edge for many of those customers. So that's the newest footprint that we're getting asked about. So really we think of that as the open hybrid cloud. And you know, our goal is really to provide a consistent platform for applications regardless of where they run across all those environments. >> Yeah. Let's get down a second on that because we've had consistency for quite a while. You look at the largest cloud provider out there, they said, hybrid environment, will give you the exact same hardware that we're running in the public cloud of your bet. You know, that in your environment. Of course, Red Hat's a software company. You've lived across lots of platforms. We're going to Red Hat's entire existence. So, you know, where is that consistency needed? How do you, well, think about how Red Hat does things? Maybe the same and a little different than some of the other players that are then, positioning and even repositioning their hybrid story over the last year or so. >> Yeah. So, we're really excited to see a lot of folks in the industry, including all the major public cloud providers are now talking about Hybrid and talking about these types of initiatives that we've been talking about for quite some time. But yeah, it's a little bit different when we talk about Hybrid Cloud, when we talk about Multicloud, we're talking about being able to run not just in one public cloud and then in a non-premise clients that mirrors that cloud. We're really talking about being able to run across multiple clouds. So having that consistency across, running in, say Amazon to Azure to Google, and then carrying that into your on-premise environments, whether that's on Bare Metal, on VMware, on OpenStack, and then, like I said, out out to the edge, right? So that consistency is important for people who are concerned about how their applications are going to operate in these different environments. Because otherwise, they'd have to manage those differences themselves. I'm speaking as part of Red Hat, right? This is what the company was built on, right? In 20 years ago, it was all about Linux bringing consistency for enterprise applications running across x86 hardware, right? So regardless of who your OEM vendor was, as long as you're building to the x86 standard and leveraging Linux as a base, Red Hat Enterprise Linux became that same consistent operating environment for applications, which is important for our software vendors, but also more importantly for customers themselves as they yep those apps into production. >> Yeah, I guess, you know, last question I have for kind of just the landscape out there. We've been talking for a number of years. When you talk to practitioners, they don't get caught up in the labels that we use in the industry. Do they have a cloud strategy? Yes, most companies have a cloud strategy, and if you ask them is their cloud strategy same today, as it was a quarter ago or a year ago, they say, of course not. Everything's changed. We know in today's day and age, what I was doing a month ago is probably very different from what I am doing today. So, I know you've got a survey that was done of enterprise users. I saw it when it came out a month ago. And, you know, some good data in there. So, you know, where are we? And what data do you have to share with us on kind of the customer adoption with (mumbles). >> Yeah, so I think, you know, we put out a survey not too long ago and we started as, I think, over 60% of customers were adopting a hybrid cloud strategy exactly as I described. Thinking about their applications in terms of, in an environment that spans multiple cloud infrastructures, as well as on-premise footprints. And then, you know, going beyond that, we think that number will grow based on what we saw in that survey. That just mirrors the conversations that I've had with customers, that many of us here at Red Hat have been having with those same customers over the years. Because everybody's in a different spot in terms of their transformation efforts, in terms of their adoption of cloud technologies and what it means for their business. So we need to meet customers where they're at, understand that everybody's at a different spot and then make sure that we can help them make that transition. And it's really an evolution, as opposed to , I think, some people in the past might've thought of as a revolution where all the data centers are going to shut down and everything's going to move all at once. And so helping customers evolve. And that transition is really what Red Hat is all about. >> Yeah. And, so often, Joe, when I talk to some of the vendors out there, when you talk about Hybrid, you talk about Multicloud, it's talking about something you mentioned, it's a box, it's a place, it's, you know, the infrastructure discussion. But when I've been having conversations with a lot of your peers of these interviews for Red Hat Summit. We know that, it's the organization and it's the applications that are hugely important as these changes go and happen. So talk a little bit about that. What's happening to the organization? How are you helping the infrastructure team keep up and the app dev team move forward? >> Yeah, so first, I'll start with, that on the technology side, right? One of the things that that has enabled this type of consistency and portability has been sort of the advent of Linux containers as a standard packaging format that can span across all these different (mumbles), right? So we know that Linux runs in all these different footprints and Linux containers, as a portable packaging format, enables that. And then Kubernetes enables customers to orchestrate containers at scale. So that's really what OpenShift is focused on, is delivering an enterprise Kubernetes platform. Again, spanning all these environments that leverages container-based packaging, provides enterprise Kubernetes orchestration and management, to manage in all those environments. What that then also does on the people front is bring infrastructure and operations teams together, right? Because Kubernetes containers represents the agility for both sides, right? Or application developers, it represents the ability to pay their application and all their dependencies. And know that when they run it in one environment, it will be consistent with how it runs in other environments. So eliminating that problem of, works on my machine, but it doesn't work, you know, in prod or what have you. So it brings consistency for developers. Infrastructure teams, it gives them the ability to basically make decisions around where the best places to run these applications without having to think about that from a technology perspective, but really from things that should matter more, like cost and convenience to customers and performance and so forth. So, I think we see those teams coming together. That being said, it is an evolution in people and process and culture. So we've done a lot of work. We launched a global transformation office. We had previously launched a Red Hat open innovation labs and have done a lot of work with our consulting services and our partners as well, to help with, sort of, people in process evolutions that need to occur to adopt these types of technologies as well as, to move towards a more cloud native approach. >> All right. So Joe, what one of the announcements that made it the show, it is talking about how OpenShift is working with virtualization. So, I think back to the earliest container days, there was a discussion of, "oh, you know, Docker and containers, "it kills VM." Or you know, Cloud of course. Some Cloud services run on VMs, other run on containers, they're serverless. So there's a lot of confusion out there as to. >> Yep. >> What happened, we know in IT, no technology ever dies, everything's always additive. It's figuring out the right solutions and the right bet. So, help us understand what Red Hat is doing when it comes to virtualization in OpenShift and Kubernetes and, how is your approach different than some of what we've already seen in the marketplace? >> Yeah, so definitely we've seen just explosive adoption of containers technology, right? Which has driven the OpenShift business and Red Hat's business overall. So, we expect that to continue, right? More applications moving towards that container-based, packaging and deployment model and leveraging Kubernetes and OpenShift to manage those environments. That being said, as you mentioned, virtualization has been around for a really long time, right? And, predominantly, most applications, today, are running virtualized. And so some of them have made the transition to containers or were built a container native from the start. But many more are still running in VM based environments and may never make that switch. So, what we were looking at is, how do we manage this sort of hybrid environment from the application perspective where you have some applications running in containers, other applications running in VMs? We have platforms like Red Hat, OpenStack, Red Hat Virtualization that leveraged the KVM hypervisor and Red Hat Enterprise Linux to serve apps running in a VM based environment. What we did with Kubernetes is, instead, how could we innovate to have convergence on the orchestration and management fund? And we leveraged the fact that, KVM, you know, a chosen hypervisor, is actually a Linux process that can itself be containerized. And so by running the hypervisor in a container, we can then span VMs that could be managed on that same platform as the containers run. So what you have in OpenShift Virtualization is the ability to use Kubernetes to manage containerized workloads, as well as, standard VM based workloads. And these are full VMs. These aren't micro VMs or, you know, things like Firecracker Kata Container. These are standard VMs that could be, well, Windows guests or Linux guests, running inside those VMs. And so it helps you basically, manage that type of environment where you may be moving to containers and more cloud native approach, but those containers need to interact or work with applications that are still in a VM based deployment environment. And we think it's really exciting, we've demoed it at the last Red Hat Summit. We're going to talk about it even more here, in terms of how we're going to bring those products to market and enable customers. >> Okay, yeah, Joe, let me make sure I understand this because as you said, it is a different approach. So, number one, if I'm moving towards a (mumbles) management solution, this is going to fit natively into what I'm doing. It's not taking some of my traditional management tools and saying, "oh, I also get some visibility containers." There's more, you know, here's my Kubernetes solution. And just some of those containers happen to be virtualized. Did I get that piece right? >> Yeah, I think it's more like... so we know that Kubernetes is going to be in in the environment because we know that, yeah, people are moving application workloads to standard Linux containers. But we also know that virtual machines are going to still exist in that environment. So you can think about it as, how would we enable Kubernetes to manage a virtual machine in the same way that it manages a Linux container? And, what we do there, is we actually, put the VM inside the container, right? So because the VM, specifically with (mumbles) is just a Linux process, and that's what a Linux container is. It's a Linux process, right? So you can run the hypervisor, span the virtual machines, inside of containers. But those virtual machines, are just like any other VM that would run in OpenStack or Red Hat Virtualization or what have you. And you could, vSphere for example. So those are traditional virtual machines, that are now being managed in a Kubernetes environment. And what we're seeing is sort of, this evolution of Kubernetes to take on these new types of workloads. VMs is just one example, of something that you can now manage with Kubernetes. >> Okay. And, help me understand what this means to really the app dev in my application portfolio. Because you know, the original promise of virtualization was, I can just stick my application in a VM and I never need to think about it ever again. And well, that was super helpful when windows NT was going end of life. In 2020, we do find that most companies do want to update their applications, and they are talking about, do I refactor them? Do I make them microservices architecture? I don't want to have that iceberg of an application that I'm just dragging along slowly into the new world. So. >> Yeah. >> What is this virtualization integration with Kubernetes? You mean for the AppDev and the applications? >> Yeah, sure, so what we see customers doing, what we see the application development team is doing is modernizing a lot of their existing applications, right? So they're taking traditional monolithic applications or end tier, like the applications that may run in a VM based environment and they're moving them towards more of a distributed architecture leveraging microservices based approach. But that doesn't happen all at once either, right? So, oftentimes what you see is your microservices, are still connected to VM based applications. Or maybe you're breaking down a monolithic application. The core is still running in a VM, but some of those business functions have now been carved out and containerized. So, you're going to end up in a hybrid environment from the application perspective in terms of how these applications are packaged, and deployed. The question is, what does that mean for your deployment architecture? Does it mean you always have to run a virtualization platform and a container platform together? That's how it's done today, right? OpenShift and Kubernetes run on top of vSphere, they run on top of Amazon and Azure and Google bands, and on top of OpenStack. But what if you could actually just run Kubernetes directly on Bare Metal and manage those types of workloads? That's really sort of the idea. A whole bunch of virtualization solution was based on is, let's just merge VMs natively with Kubernetes in the same way that we manage containers. And then, it can facilitate for the application developer. This evolution of apps that are running in one environment towards apps that are running essentially, in a hybrid environment from how they're packaged and deployed. >> Yeah, absolutely, something I've been hearing for the last year or so, that hybrid deployment, pulling apart application, sometimes it's even, the core piece as you said, is on premises and then I might have some of the more transactional pieces happening in the public cloud. So really interesting. So, how long has Red Hat been working on this? My (mumbles), something, you know, I'm familiar with in the CNCF. I believe it has been around for a couple of years. >> Yeah. >> So talk to us about just kind of how long it took to get here and, fully support stateful applications now. What's the overall roadmap look like? >> Yeah, so, so (mumbles) as a open source project was launched more than two years ago now. As you know, Red Hat really drives all of our development upstream in the open source community. So we launched (mumbles) project. We've been collaborating with other vendors and even customers on that. But then, you know, over time we then decided, how do we bring these technologies to market, which technologies make sense to bring the market? So, (mumbles) is the open source project. OpenShift and OpenShift Virtualization, which is what this feature is referred to commercially, is the product that then we would ship and support for running this in production environments. The capabilities, right. So, I think, those have been evolving as well. So, virtual machines have a specific requirements in terms of not only how they're deployed and managed, but how they connect to storage, how they connect networking, how do you do things like fencing and all sorts of live migration and that type of thing. We've been building out those types of capabilities. They're certainly still more to do there. But it's something that we're really excited about, not just from the perspective of running VMs, but just even more broadly from the perspective of how Kubernetes is expanding to take on new workloads, right? Because Kubernetes has moved far beyond just running, cloud native applications, today, you can run stateful services in containers. You can run things like AI and machine learning and analytics and IoT type services. But it hasn't come for free, right? This has come through a lot of hard work in the Kubernetes community, in the various associated communities, the container communities, communities like (mumbles). But it's all kind of trying to leverage that same automation, that same platform to just do more things. The cool thing is, it'll not just be Red Hat talking about it, but you'll see that from a lot of customers that are doing sessions at our summit this year and beyond. Talking about how, what it means to them. >> Yeah, that's great. Always love hearing the practitioner viewpoint. All right, Joe, I want to give you the final word when it comes to this whole space things kind of move pretty fast, but also we remember it when we first saw it. So, tell us what the customers who were kind of walking away from Red Hat Summit 2020 should be looking at and understanding that they might not have thought about if they were looking at Kubernetes, a year or two ago? >> Yeah, I think a couple of things. One is, yeah, Kubernetes and this whole container ecosystem is continuing to evolve, continuing to add capabilities and continue to expand the types of workloads, that it can run. Red Hat is right in the center of it. It's all happening in open source. Red Hat as a leading contributor to Kubernetes and open source in general, is driving a lot of this innovation. We're working with some great customers and partners, other vendors, who are working side by side with us as well. And I think the most important thing is we understand that it's an evolution for customers, right? So this evolution towards moving applications to the public cloud, adopting a hybrid cloud approach. This evolution in terms of expanding the types of workloads, and how you run and manage them. And that approach is something that we've always helped customers do and we're doing that today as they move out towards embracing a cloud native. >> All right, well, Joe Fernandez, thank you so much for the updates. Congratulations on the launch of OpenShift Virtualization. I definitely look forward to talking to some the customers in finding out that helping them along their hybrid cloud journey. All right. Lots more coverage from the CUBE at Red Hat Summit. I'm Stu Miniman ,and thank you for watching the CUBE.

>> From the Silicon Angle Media Office in Boston Massachusetts, it's "The Cube." (groovy techno music) Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hello, everyone. The rise of open source is really powering the digital economy. And in a world where every company is essentially under pressure to become a software firm, open source software really becomes the linchpin of digital services for both incumbents and, of course, digital natives. Here's the challenge, is when developers tap and apply open source, they're often bringing in hundreds, or even thousands of lines of code that reside in open sourced packages and libraries. And these code bases, they have dependencies, and essentially hidden traps. Now typically, security vulnerabilities in code, they're attacked after the software's developed. Or maybe thrown over the fence to the sec-ops team and SNYK is a company that set out to solve this problem within the application development life cycle, not after the fact as a built-on. Now, with us to talk about this mega-trend is Peter McKay, a friend of The Cube and CEO of SNYK. Peter, great to see you again. >> Good to see you, dude. >> So I got to start with the name. SNYK, what does it mean? >> SNYK, So Now You Know. You know, people it's sneakers sneak. And they tend to use the snick. So it's SNYK or snick. But it is SNYK and it stands for So Now You Know. Kind of a security, so now you know a lot more about your applications than you ever did before. So it's kind of a fitting name. >> So you heard my narrative upfront. Maybe you can add a little color to that and provide some additional background. >> Yeah, I mean, it's a, you know, when you think of the larger trends that are going on in the market, you know, every company is going through this digital transformation. You know, and every CEO, it's the number one priority. We've got to change our business from, you know, financial services, healthcare, insurance company, whatever, are all switching to digital, you know, more of a software company. And with that, more software equals more software risk and cybersecurity continues to be, you know, a major. I think 72% of CEOs worry about cybersecurity as a top issue in protecting companies' data. And so for us, we've been in the software in the security space for the four and a half years. I've been in the security space since, you know, Watchfire 20 years ago. And right now, with more and more, as you said, open source and containers, the challenge of being able to address the cybersecurity issues that have never been more challenging. And so especially when you add the gap between the need for security professionals and what they have. I think it's four million open positions for security people. So you know, with all this added risk, more and more open source, more and more digitization, it's created this opportunity in the market where you're traditional approaches to addressing security don't work today, you know? Like you said, throwing it over the fence and having someone in security, you know, check and make sure and finding all these vulnerabilities, and throw it back to developers to fix is very slow and something at this point is not driving to success. >> So talk a little bit more about what attracted you to SNYK early. I mean, you've been with the company, you're at least involved in the company for a couple years now. What were the trends that you saw, and what was it about SNYK that, you know, led you to become an investor and ultimately, CEO? >> Yeah, so four years involved in the business. So you know, I've always loved the security space. I've been in it for a number, almost 20 years. So I enjoy the space. You know, I've watched it. The founder, Guy Podjarny, one of the founders of SNYK, has been a friend of mine for 16 years from back in the Watchfire days. So we've always stayed connected. I've always worked well together with him. And so when you started, and I was on the board, the first board member of the company, so I could see what was going on, and it was this, you know, changing, kind of the right place at the right time in terms of developer first security. Really taking all the things that are going on in the security space that impacts a developer or can be addressed by the developer, and embedding it into the software into that developer community, in a way that developers use, the tools that they use. So it's a developer-first mindset with security expertise built-in. And so when you look at the market, the number of open source container evolution, you know, it's a huge market opportunity. Then you look at the business momentum, just took off over the past, you know, four years. That it was something that I was getting more and more involved in. And then when Guy asked me to join as the CEO, it was like, "Sure, what took you so long?" (Dave laughing) >> We had Guy on at Node JS Summit. I want to say it was a couple years ago now. And what he was describing is when you package, take the example of Node. When you package code in Node, you bring in all these dependencies, kind of what I was talking about there, but the challenge that he sort of described was really making it seamless as part of the development workflow. It seems like that's unique to SNYK. Maybe you could talk about-- >> Yeah, it is. And you know, we've built it from the ground up. You know, it's very difficult. If it was a security tool for security people, and then say, "Oh, let's adapt it for the developer," that is almost impossible. Why I think we've been so successful from the 400,000 developers in the community using Freemium to paid, was we built it from the ground up for developer, embedded into the application-development life cycle. Into their process, the look and feel, easy for them to use, easy for them to try it, and then we focused on just developer adoption. A great experience, developers will continue to use it and expand with it. And most of our opportunities that we've been successful at, the customers, we have over 400 customers. That had been this try, you know, start it with the community. They used the Freemium, they tried it for their new application, then they tried it for all their new, and then they go back and replace the old. So it was kind of this Freemium, land and expand has been a great way for developers to try it, use it. Does it work, yes, buy more. And that's the way we work. >> We're really happy, Peter, that you came on because you've got some news today that you're choosing to share with us in our Cube community. So it's around financing, bring us up to date. What's the news? >> Yeah so you know, I'd say four months ago, five months ago, we raised a $70 million round from great investors. And that was really led by one of our existing investors, who kind of knew us the best and it was you know, Excel Venture, and then Excel Growth came in and led the $70 million round. And part of that was a few new investors that came in and Stripes, which is you know a very large growth equity investor were part of that $70 million round said you know, preempted it and said, "Look it, we know you don't need the money, but we want to," you know, "We want to preempt. We believe your customer momentum," here we did, you know, five or six really large deals. You know, one, 700, seven million, 7.4 million, one's 3.5 million. So we started getting these bigger deals and we doubled since the $70 million round. And so we said, "Okay, we want to make money not the issue." So they led the next round, which is $150 million round, at a valuation of over a billion. That really allows us now to, with the number of other really top tier, (mumbles) and Tiger and Trend and others, who have been part of watching the space and understand the market. And are really helping us grow this business internationally. So it's an exciting time. So you know, again, we weren't looking to raise. This was something that kind of came to us and you know, when people are that excited about it like we are and they know us the best because they've been part of our board of directors since their round, it allows us to do the things that we want to do faster. >> So $150 million raise this round, brings you up to the 250, is that correct? >> Yes, 250. >> And obviously, an up-round. So congratulations, that's great. >> Yeah, you know, I think a big part of that is you know, we're not, I mean, we've always been very fiscally responsible. I mean, yes we have the money and most of it's still in the bank. We're growing at the pace that we think is right for us and right for the market. You know, we continue to invest product, product, product, is making sure we continue our product-led organization. You know, from that bottoms up, which is something we continue to do. This allows us to accelerate that more aggressively, but also the community, which is a big part of what makes that, you know, when you have a bottoms up, you need to have that community. And we've grown that and we're going to continue to invest aggressively and build in that community. And lastly, go to market. Not only invest, invest aggressively in the North America, but also Europe and APJ, which, you know, a lot of the things we've learned from my Veeam experience, you know how to grow fast, go big or go home. You know, are things that we're going to do but we're going to do it in the right way. >> So the Golden Rule is product and sales, right? >> Yes, you're either building it or selling it. >> Right, that's kind of where you're going to put your money. You know, you talk a lot about people, companies will do IPOs to get seen, but companies today, I mean, even software companies, which is a capital-efficient industry, they raise a lot of dough and they put it towards promotion to compete. What are your thoughts on that? >> You know, we've had, the model is very straightforward. It's bottoms up, you know? Developers, you know, there's 28 million developers in the world, you know? What we want is every one of those 28 million to be using our product. Whether it's free or paid, I want SNYK used in every application-development life cycle. If you're one developer, or you're a sales force with standardized on 12,000 developers, we want them using SNYK. So for us, it's get it in the hands. And that, you know, it's not like-- developers aren't going to look at Super Bowl ads, they're not going to be looking. It's you know, it's finding the ways, like the conference. We bought the DevSecCon, you know, the conference for developer security. Another way to promote kind of our, you know, security for developers and grow that developer community. That's not to say that there isn't a security part. Because, you know, what we do is help security organizations with visibility and finding a much more scalable way that gets them out of the, you know, the slows-down, the speed bump to the moving apps more aggressively into production. And so this is very much about helping security people. A lot of times the budgets do come from security or dev-ops. But it's because of our focus on the developer and the success of fixing, finding, fixing, and auto-remediating that developer environment is what makes us special. >> And it's sounds like a key to your success is you're not asking developer to context switch into a new environment, right? It's part of their existing workflow. >> It has to be, right? Don't change how they do their job, right? I mean, their job is to develop incredible applications that are better than the competitors, get them to market faster than they can, than they've ever been able to do before and faster than the competitor, but do it securely. Our goal is to do the third, but not sacrifice on one and two, right? Help you drive it, help you get your applications to market, help you beat your competition, but do it in a secure fashion. So don't slow them down. >> Well, the other thing I like about you guys is the emphasis is on fixing. It's not just alerting people that there's a problem. I mean, for instance, a company like Red Hat, is that they're going to put a lot of fixes in. But you, of course, have to go implement them. What you're doing is saying, "Hey, we're going to do that for you. Push the button and then we'll do it," right? So that, to me, that's important because it enables automation, it enables scale. >> Exactly, and I think this has been one of the challenges for kind of more of the traditional legacy, is they find a whole bunch of vulnerabilities, right? And we feel as though just that alone, we're the best in the world at. Finding vulnerabilities in applications in open source container. And so the other part of it is, okay, you find all them, but prioritizing what it is that I should fix first? And that's become really big issue because the vulnerabilities, as you can imagine, continue to grow. But focusing on hey, fix this top 10%, then the next, and to the extent you can, auto-fix. Auto-remediate those problems, that's ultimately, we're measured by how many vulnerabilities do we fix, right? I mean, finding them, that's one thing. But fixing them is how we judge a successful customer. And now it's possible. Before, it was like, "Oh, okay, you're just going to show me more things." No, when you talk about Google and Salesforce and Intuit, and all of our customers, they're actually getting far better. They're seeing what they have in terms of their exposure, and they're fixing the problems. And that's ultimately what we're focused on. >> So some of those big whales that you just mentioned, it seems to me that the value proposition for those guys, Peter, is the quality of the code that they can develop and obviously, the time that it takes to do that. But if you think about it more of a traditional enterprise, which I'm sure is part of your (mumbles), they'll tell you, the (mumbles) will tell you our biggest problem is we don't have enough people with the skills. Does this help? >> It absolutely-- >> And how so? >> Yeah, I mean, there's a massive gap in security expertise. And the current approach, the tools, are, you know, like you said at the very beginning, it's I'm doing too late in the process. I need to do it upstream. So you've got to leverage the 28 million developers that are developing the applications. It's the only way to solve the problem of, you know, this application security challenge. We call it Cloud Dative Application Security, which all these applications usually are new apps that they're moving into the Cloud. And so to really fix it, to solve the problem, you got to embed it, make it really easy for developers to leverage SNYK in their whole, we call it, you know, it's that concept of shift left, you know? Our view is that it needs to be embedded within the development process. And that's how you fix the problem. >> And talk about the business model again. You said it's Freemium model, you just talked about a big seven figure deals that you're doing and that starts with a Freemium, and then what? I upgrade to a subscription and then it's a land and expand? Describe that. >> Yeah we call it, it's you know, it's the community. Let's get every developer in a community. 28 million, we want to get into our community. From there, you know, leverage our Freemium, use it. You know, we encourage you to use it. Everybody to use our Freemium. And it's full functionality. It's not restricted in anyway. You can use it. And there's a subset of those that are ready to say, "Look it, I want to use the paid version," which allows me to get more visibility across more developers. So as you get larger organization, you want to leverage the power of kind of a bigger, managing multiple developers, like a lot of, in different teams. And so that kind of gets that shift to that paid. Then it goes into that Freemium, land, expand, we call it explode. Sales force, kind of explode. And then renew. That's been our model. Get in the door, get them using Freemium, we have a great experience, go to paid. And that's usually for an application, then it goes to 10 applications, and then 300 developers and then the way we price is by developer. So the more developers who use, the better your developer adoption, the bigger the ultimate opportunity is for us. >> There's a subscription service right? >> All subscription. >> Okay and then you guys have experts that are identifying vulnerabilities, right? You put them into a database, presumably, and then you sort of operationalize that into your software and your service. >> Yeah, we have 15 people in our security team that do nothing everyday but looking for the next vulnerability. That's our vulnerability database, in a large case, is a lot of our big companies start with the database. Because you think of like Netflix and you think of Facebook, all of these companies have large security organizations that are looking for issues, looking for vulnerabilities. And they're saying, "Well okay, if I can get that feed from you, why do I have my own?" And so a lot of companies start just with the database feed and say, "Look, I'll get rid of mine, and use yours." And then eventually, we'll use this scanning and we'll evolve down the process. But there's no doubt in the market people who use our solution or other solution will say our known the database of known vulnerabilities, is far better than anybody else in the market. >> And who do you sell to, again? Who are the constituencies? Is it sec-ops, is it, you know, software engineering? Is it developers, dev-ops? >> Users are always developers. In some cases dev-ops, or dev-sec. Apps-sec, you're starting to see kind of the world, the developer security becoming bigger. You know, as you get larger, you're definitely security becomes a bigger part of the journey and some of the budget comes from the security teams. Or the risk or dev-ops. But I think if we were to, you know, with the user and some of the influencers from developers, dev-ops, and security are kind of the key people in the equation. >> Is your, you have a lot of experience in the enterprise. How do you see your go to market in this world different, given that it's really a developer constituency that you're targeting? I mean, normally, you'd go out, hire a bunch of expensive sales guys, go to market, is that the model or is it a little different here because of the target? >> Yeah, you know, to be honest, a lot of the momentum that we've had at this point has been inbound. Like most of the opportunities that come in, come to us from the community, from this ground up. And so we have a very large inside sales team that just kind of follows up on the inbound interest. And that's still, you know, 65, 70% of the opportunities that come to us both here and Europe and APJ, are coming from the community inbound. Okay, I'm using 10 licenses of SNYK, you know, I want to get the enterprise version of it. And so that's been how we've grown. Very much of a very cost-effective inside sales. Now, when you get to the Googles and Salesforces and Nordstroms of the world, and they have already 500 licenses us, either paid or free, then we usually have more of a, you know, senior sales person that will be involved in those deals. >> To sort of mine those accounts. But it's really all about driving the efficiency of that inbound, and then at some point driving more inbound and sort of getting that flywheel effect. >> Developer adoption, developer adoption. That's the number one driver for everybody in our company. We have a customer success team, developer adoption. You know, just make the developer successful and good things happen to all the other parts of the organization. >> Okay, so that's a key performance indicator. What are the, let's wrap kind of the milestones and the things that you want to accomplish in the next, let's call it 12 months, 18 months? What should we be watching? >> Yeah, so I mean it continues to be the community, right? The community, recruiting more developers around the globe. We're expanding, you know, APJ's becoming a bigger part. And a lot of it is through just our efforts and just building out this community. We now have 20 people, their sole job is to build out, is to continue to build our developer community. Which is, you know, content, you know, information, how to learn, you know, webinars, all these things that are very separate and apart from the commercial side of the business and the community side of the business. So community adoption is a critical measurement for us, you know, yeah, you look at Freemium adoption. And then, you know, new customers. How are we adding new customers and retaining our existing customers? And you know, we have a 95% retention rate. So it's very sticky because you're getting the data feed, is a daily data feed. So it's like, you know, it's not one that you're going to hook on and then stop at any time soon. So you know, those are the measurements. You look at your community, you look at your Freemium, you look at your customer growth, your retention rates, those are all the things that we measure our business by. >> And your big pockets of brain power here, obviously in Boston, kind of CEO's prerogative, you got a big presence in London, right? And also in Israel, is that correct? >> Yeah, I would say we have four hubs and then we have a lot of remote employees. So, you know, Tel Aviv, where a lot of our security expertise is, in London, a lot of engineering. So between London and Tel Aviv is kind of the security teams, the developers are all in the community is kind of there. You know, Boston, is kind of more go to market side of things, and then we have Ottawa, which is kind of where Watchfire started, so a lot of good security experience there. And then, you know, we've, like a lot of modern companies, we hired the best people wherever we can find them. You know, we have some in Sydney, we've got some all around the world. Especially security, where finding really good security talent is a challenge. And so we're always looking for the best and brightest wherever they are. >> Well, Peter, congratulations on the raise, the new role, really, thank you for coming in and sharing with The Cube community. Really appreciate it. >> Well, it's great to be here. Always enjoy the conversations, especially the Patriots, Red Sox, kind of banter back and forth. It's always good. >> Well, how do you feel about that? >> Which one? >> Well, the Patriots, you know, sort of strange that they're not deep into the playoffs, I mean, for us. But how about the Red Sox now? Is it a team of shame? All my friends who were sort of jealous of Boston sports are saying you should be embarrassed, what are your thoughts? >> It's all about Houston, you know? Alex Cora, was one of the assistant coaches at Houston where all the issues are, I'm not sure those issues apply to Boston, but we'll see, TBD. TBD, I am optimistic as usual. I'm a Boston fan making sure that there isn't any spillover from the Houston world. >> Well we just got our Sox tickets, so you know, hopefully, they'll recover quickly, you know, from this. >> They will, they got to get a coach first. >> Yeah, they got to get a coach first. >> We need something to distract us from the Patriots. >> So you're not ready to attach an asterisk yet to 2018? >> No, no. No, no, no. >> All right, I like the optimism. Maybe you made the right call on Tom Brady. >> Did I? >> Yeah a couple years ago. >> Still since we talked what, two in one. And they won one. >> So they were in two, won one, and he threw for what, 600 yards in the first one so you can't, it wasn't his fault. >> And they'll sign him again, he'll be back. >> Is that your prediction? I hope so. >> I do, I do. >> All right, Peter. Always a pleasure, man. >> Great to see you. >> Thank you so much, and thank you for watching everybody, we'll see you next time. (groovy techno music)

>> Announcer: From Miami Beach, Florida, it's theCUBE. Covering Acronis Global Cyber Summit 2019. Brought to you by Acronis. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage here in Miami Beach, Florida at the Fontainebleau Hotel for the Acronis Global Cyber Summit 2019, where cyber protection is becoming an emerging trend. And we see these once in a while, when you have these big waves, you know, some unique trends. Observability and cloud computing, automation and cloud computing came out of nowhere from these white spaces. Now you're seeing the confluence of data protection and cyber security coming together to the platform. That's what they're talking about here. And my next guest, to break it all down, is an analyst from Forrester Research, Naveen Chhabra. Thanks for joining us today. >> Thank you for having me here. >> So Miami Beach, not a bad venue is it? >> Oh yeah, absolutely. (laughing) >> Get a dip in the ocean there, the water's warm. I got to ask you this, break down this market. Acronis is on here earlier. They've got a story to tell, and their story is not something that's obvious. It's kind of a new category, I guess, emerging, not really a traditional category from a research standpoint. But cyber protection by combining traditional thinking about data protection and cyber security software, bringing them together into one thinking, wholistic data model, with a platform that can enable services. I mean, this is a classic platform. This is what these guys have. What's your take on the industry? Is the industry ready for this? Is this a real trend? >> The industry certainly needs the technology, and I'll give you some examples as to why. So if you think upon the ransomware attacks that have happened in the past, the ransomware attacks would cripple any organization, right? And the best defense that an organization has to recover from, backups. Now, what that means is, okay, I can certainly recover from a backup which was taken last hour, last yesterday or a few days back, a few weeks back. But the most important question is how do I find out that the last copy or the last snapshot is a clean, uninfected copy? Because that's important, right? So if you recover from an infected copy, you're going to be hit again. And you don't want that, right? So, the million dollar question there is how do I get back to the copy which is clean and uninfected? Right? And you cannot do that traditionally the way organizations have been structured. You have infrastructure and operations guys, those who are responsible for operations, you know, keeping copies in their place, wherever required, and then you have the second group, which is security and risk, which is responsible for identifying all things security, right? But, ransomware is one thing in the industry which is pulling these two teams together. But the organizations are not ready yet. In one of the surveys that I did, I asked the respondents, "Do you have these two teams working together "to solve this problem?" And the answer was abysmally low. You know, no they don't work with each other. >> You point at a great point. I think one of the things you highlight there that I think is really critical is backup and recovery was because of some operational disruption. >> Naveen: Yes. >> Outage, flood, so rollback. The disruption wasn't a hack, so to that point, all those mechanisms around, generations of backup and recovery didn't actually take into account security. >> Exactly. >> Meaning the malware or the infection, the disruption is coming from a secure breach, not some electrical outage or some sort of other disruption. And they used to call that non-disruptive operations. I remember all the stories when we just talked about that. >> Right. >> Now it's not that anymore. The disruption is coming from security, so how do you bake security in from day one? That's the million dollar question that I always hear. What's your answer to that? What's the industry doing to get security baked in? What are some of the mechanisms you've seen successful for a large enterprise to adopt a plan that way? >> So I, specifically from a technology standpoint, I see very little efforts. The technology vendors are doing their own efforts, but you know, my guidance to clients is to be proactive in terms of your using the right storage for that matter. Let's say, if you have a WORM storage which can not be encrypted. Written once, cannot be changed, right? Use that model which will ensure that whatever you backed up yesterday, one, the backup is not infected, right? Or even from your core business application standpoint, you know, you want to schedule the data to be kept at a particular point in time to that WORM storage, for example, right? I don't see much of an effort from the organizations because, again, inner security is a domain which is handled by security, backup has not looked at using WORM as a potential storage target. >> WORM being "Write Once Read Many" for the folks-- >> Yes. >> at home tracking this. >> Right, and not that they do not know the technology. They know the technology. It's also about thinking out of the box and applying what's available to another-- >> To a known problem, right? >> Yes. >> And ransomware is so bad, it's such a hard problem to solve. I've heard (mumbles) has been in solution, WORM's a good one. That's the first time I heard that. That's awesome. It makes sense. >> Absolutely. >> But how do you deploy that to scale throughout the enterprise where you had these traditional work stream workflows that-- >> That becomes a problem. >> A people problem. You've been doin' a lot of work around the people equation. People process technology, everyone says it's digital transformation. But the people equation is a hard nut to crack. What's your take on the people situation? >> It certainly is a hard nut to crack because security would not trust more infrastructure in place that our guys would be doing. They've been told to operate in that model and now comes a situation, ransomware situation, where they're asked to trust each other and work with each other. Boy, that's not happening, is it? (chuckles) >> Yeah, they hate each other before, now they have to like each other. I mean, that's been a 20 year, 10 year, 5 year you've seen it evolve over time. Dev Ops is certainly with the cloud enforced a lot of that. That's kind of what brought people together under the Dev Ops infrastructure's code. But we're talkin' about application development that's growing like crazy. (mumbles) C.s want to build in-house stacks and communicate via A.P.I.s and, or some data-sharing with vendors. So this idea of a lot of this there's a restructuring that's going on at least from a architectural, technically, and staffing. What's some of the best practices that you've seen? What is some of the customer environments out there that you can talk to to show and point at a success story? >> I think some of the examples I've seen organizationally addressing this problem, wholistically, is to start from the top. I came out with this report a couple of years back titled Ransomware is a Business Continuity Issue. So don't approach it with a technology solution. Eventually, you will end up in adopting that same technology but I didn't define why do you need to use that technology so that it ties up your business requirements. So start from identifying that as a business risk which I see very little organizations do that today. Cyber risks are not identified as vulnerable as important a risk as they should be. So start off from that and trickle down into the next sub-steps that you must be taking, going eventually to the same technology. >> You know, one of the things I want to get your thoughts on is that obviously the digital threats are the industrialization of automating attacks. You're seeing Zero-day, you're seeing all this malware out there. You got surface errors with I.O.T.s increasing. So, the threats are coming. They're not going away. In fact, they're going to be increasing over time. Maybe get, you might not see it like D-DOS kind of been distracted away. But now the complexity is a huge issue because the costs will kick off of the complexity, this is something that Acronis is talking about and this is what I want to get your thoughts on. Complexity is one of those things that if you don't solve it and you look the other way, it gets more expensive to solve over time. So as complexity piles up, it's like climate change or cleaning up the Boston harbor. The longer you wait the more expensive it's going to be. >> Exactly. >> So that's startin' be be realized in some people's minds. They call it re-platforming, digital transmission, there's just buzz words for that. But I think this is a reality that people like, "Oh, I got to get... "I got to take care of business." I got I.O.T., I got complete industrial I.O.T., N.I.O.C. I got all those data centers movin' to the cloud. I got to clean up the complexity problem. What's the answer? How do you, What's the research tell you? >> Unfortunately, there's no easy answer because all the tools, technologies the organizations are using, they're using it for a purpose. So silos is a challenge, increasing silos is a challenge. So, I would highly recommend organizations start to think about reducing the silos, not be reducing the tools, but by potentially looking at cross-liberating by integrating, right? And one of the examples here is very important around recovery from ransomware attacks. So, going back to the point that, "Okay, how do you identify where is the right, "clean copy of the backup?" So these two teams would have to work together. Now the teams would work right out of their heads. They got to depend on technology, right? So that's where the requirement of the tools, themselves, working with each other, security to identifying, "Okay, when to do the forensics tracing "you know where the ransomware part "would identify when did the ransomware get in? "When did the malware get in? "Which systems did it infect?" And then, the backup tools correspondingly acting on those backup instances which have been identified as clean and uninfected. Easier said than done, but that's a part forward. >> And the other thing to make that more complex is that you said business continuity before, that's a people issue, as well. Not just technical process. >> Absolutely. >> Okay, so the two has to have a plan. Like, "What's the plan?" Do they actually huddle and do dry runs? Do they have fire drills? I mean, these are the things that most cyber groups do. They tend to have, you know, very structured approaches to either incidents, response,... So as these worlds come together, what does your research tell you around (chuckles) the questions of working together, proactively, show you? >> Interestingly, enough. I, a couple of years back, I did a survey asking those organizations who have been hit by ransomware attack and have lost data. I asked them, "How many of you have these two teams "working together?" Apparently, you know, some thirty-odd percent responded and said, "Yes, we have these two teams working together." But among, you know, asking final questions, qualifying questions about, "Yes, these two teams "work together," but do they effectively and eventually get to where they should be. Like, have a common plan, right? I think three, four, five percent of the respondents would say, "Yes, we do have a common operating, "understood plan "between the two teams." But largely, all I can say almost all organizations do not have that plan, unfortunately. >> You're, I think, one of the first ransomware experts I've had on theCUBE that's done a lot of research in the area, directly. So I got to ask you on ransomware, first of all it's really bad news and it comes from multiple actors. People lookin' for cash and also state-sponsored, which I believe is goin' on a lot, but no one's reporting on it, but, you know, still that's not proofed yet, but I still get a feeling it's done. On ransomware, do you have any data or insights around if the people clean up their act and get fixed, because I see a lot of ransomware coming back to the same places where they hit once, solve it, pay some bit-coin or whatever their extortion currency is, and then they get hit again. And hit again. Because (clap) there's cash there. Do you see that as a trend? What's the data? Is there any anecdotal insight or are people gettin' hit twice? Three times? >> There are incidents, and I was speaking on, you know, on a panel like half an hour back, and I gave this example. There was a hotel chain in central Europe which was attacked. And the key management system, like if you're one of the guests of that you would not be able to get in, into our rooms. And while they paid a ransom for to release that key management application, they didn't secure that infrastructure and applications further, which was required. And three months later, they were attacked once again. So such incidents are happening. And that's where, you know, guidance from Forrester where we have published a paper about when to consider to pay ransom. Because, you would not be sure that you get the keys. You get the keys for all the data? You don't get any traces of malware left behind or a new malware coming in. You never know, right? >> Of course, yes. >> While this is an untrusted world, but you got to trust if you're paying. (chuckles) >> Yeah, well I think I would bet that the criminals would come back for, you know, new shoes, new coat, new car... They need new things. They need cash (clap), they're going to come back to the bank. >> Absolutely! And they're coming back to basic prey. >> Naveen, thanks for comin' on. I want to get your thoughts on the industry as we wrap up this segment on the trends around cyber protection, data protection, platform. You know, really we're living in a cyber data-driven world. And data is a key part of it. What's the most important trend or story that you think needs to be told or is being told today, in terms of customers to pay attention to? What's, is it ransomware? What's, in your mind, are the top three things that are the most important stories that must be covered or need to be covered, or aren't covered? >> So I think it's not just my story, it's about the state of affairs at an industrial level, globally. I was referring to the World Economic Forum where all the global risks that economies face. It could be famine. It could be a country going bankrupt, right? It could be any other risk that the industry faces. We have seen that, to that starting the World Economic Forum did, in the last 10 years, cyber risk has started to appear on the list of top four, top five risks for the last three years. >> In the world? >> Globally. >> Global issues? >> Global issues, yes. And one of our research also tells us that the number of ransomware incidents have grown 500% in the preceding last 12 months. And the impact, intensity, and frequency of a ransomware attack is simply great. Many organizations are actually shutting down operations. Medical practice in mid-west, called upon the practice and said, "Oh, they are closing operations?" And in fact, it's in public domain. "We're closing operations, you can come back to us "for whatever data we currently have on you." But, I mean I think that from a regulation standpoint, people (mumbles) so that you have to keep control of the data and also be able to provide. But guess what? In this case, the medical practice doesn't have data. If you were their client, if you were a patient they don't have any data on you. Guess what? If it was there for years, you've lost years of your medical data. >> So global issues, ransomware's real and cyber attacks are happening at high frequency. >> Absolutely. >> Naveen, thanks for comin' on. Naveen Chhabra, senior analyst at Forrester Research here inside theCUBE. We are at the Acronis Global Cyber Summit 2019. I'm John Furrier. Back with more coverage for two days here, in Miami Beach, after this short break. Stay with us. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Francisco, it's the Cube, covering Google Cloud Next '19. Brought to you by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back everyone live here in San Francisco at Moscone, this is the Cube's live coverage of Google Next 2019, #googlenext19. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman, as well as David Vellante, who has been co-host, he's out there getting stories and getting all the scoop. We are here with two great guests, Cube alumni's, Aparna Sinha, the Group Product Manager at Google, and Chen Goldberg, director of Engineering, Google. Both the architects of the big wave that we're riding. Containers, kubernetes, and anthos. Guys, great to see you, thanks for coming on again. >> Aparna: Thanks for having us, great to be here. >> Chen: Thank you. >> So, you were smirking last night when we saw each other at the press gathering, knowing what was coming. I watched the keynote, it was awesome. I didn't get a chance to see the spotlight session you guys just had, but Anthos, obviously the rebranding and the additional integration points for making things run end to end, this is our dream come true, Devops Infrastructure as Code is happening, we've been talking about this for a while, you guys are behind it all, give us the update. >> So we've been hard at work over the last eight months since our last Next. Can you believe that it's only been eight months? Last year we were here announcing GK On Prem. This year we've rebranded CSP to Anthos and enlarged it and we've moved it to GA. So that's the big announcement. In our spotlight we actually walked through all the pieces and gave three live demos, as well as had two customers on stage and really the big difference in the eight months is while we're moving to GA now we've been working throughout this time with a set of customers. We saw unprecedented demand for what we announced last year and we've had that privilege of working with customers to build the product, which is what's unique really. So we had two of those folks up on stage talking about the transformation that Anthos is creating in their companies. >> I want to get to the customer focus a little bit later, but I want to just get it out on the record while you're here, because there's not a lot of time on stage other than the great demo Jennifer Lynn did. What actually is the difference, what's the new things, because obviously its a rebrand, some people might say, "Oh, they're just rebranding the announcement from last year", what were the new things, what are the new elements of Anthos, why is it important, what does it mean, what's under the covers, tell us what's new. >> Chen: So, first of all lets talk about, "What is Anthos?" Anthos is a Google opinionated solution that lets you right once, deploy anywhere. Really, the key thing about Anthos is choice. What we've been hearing from our customers, how much they appreciate choice in their journey to the cloud and modernization in general. The main thing that we have announced is that everything we have announced last year is GA. So talking about GKE On Prem, Anthos config management and our marketplace and the control plane from managing multiple classes, all of that has moved to GA. when thinking about choice, we've added new capabilities and one choice that customers are thinking about, "Do I need to choose a single cloud provider?" I had a discussion just yesterday with one of the customers and they said that when they exclude a cloud provider from their strategy, they're actually blocking their own innovation and that might get even a bigger risk for them. So we know that customers are adopting a multi cloud strategy. The big announcement here is that we are moving towards, or maybe we are even leaning more into multi cloud, we already had other solutions that we were talking about and definitely with Kubernetes and Istio talking about open API's, but we are leaning in towards multi cloud strategy, so that would be one. The second thing that talks about choice, is "How do we start?" One thing we are hearing from our customers is the importance that they want to innovate with what they have. So Anthos migrate, lets them take their existing applications, package applications that are running today on VM's and onboard to Anthos automatically and see value. So those are the top two announcements and I think the third one would be around all the partnerships, which is part of the people we've been working with in eight months. >> That's awesome. >> Stu: I'm sorry, the migrate piece, that's not GA yet, am I understanding? >> No, it's moving to beta. >> So Stu, you and I have been talking about applications, Renaissance, multi cloud, obviously is a reality for enterprises. Now you've got the hybrid model, this is kind of in the main themes of what this all means with anthem. So its holistically looking at the cloud, as you said, not just Google Cloud. This is a key nuance, its kind of embedded in the announcement, but its not just Google Cloud. >> That's right and I think in that sense, Anthos is a game changer, its not just an incremental improvement to something that's existing for customers. Its not like its just something faster or cheaper or adds more features, its actually something that allows them to do something they couldn't do before, which is, have a consistent platform that they can use to write once and deploy their workloads anywhere, On Prem, in GCP and that we had, but expanding that to any cloud, not just Google Cloud. >> I want to get your guys' thoughts here because you've got the brain and trust inside Google Cloud, because I've been talking on the cube about this and publicly. There seems to be confusion around what multi cloud means, and a company is an enterprise, there's a lot of things going on in the enterprise, so certainly the enterprise will have multiple workloads. There's certain situations that some people say, "Hey, this workload would be great on this cloud, this workload would be great on that cloud." So its not about having a cloud for cloud's sake. "We have to standardize on Google, we have to standardize on Amazon." Instead, what I hear, and I want to get your thoughts and reaction to is, I'd like to have a workload that has data, highly addressable, really low latency for this workload, and a cloud for this workload, but together its multi cloud, this seems to be a trend, do you guys agree with that? Is that something that you're seeing, is that the main message here? It's not so much standardized on the cloud, but have multiple clouds, pick the right cloud for the job, kind of philosophy. What's your thoughts, this is kind of a philosophical question. >> So this is exactly what we are hearing from our customers about their multicloud strategy and exactly what you are saying. This is actually for most of them is a reality, either because they have been organically building things in the cloud or they want to get to multiple geographies, and it's not only a cloud vendor, we need to remember that On Prem is where most of their workloads are still running and where they still need to innovate or when you talk about retail or banks, they have their branches and their stores where they need to have compute at. Really, services are spread all over. Now the question is, this kind of situation creates a lot of risk for our customers. Security risk and talent fragmentation, which are related, so how can I manage all of those environments? >> The risk is multi cloud, or one cloud? >> So multi cloud actually increases the risk even further, so they already have a multicloud reality. That's their strategy forward, but how can they mitigate risk with that reality? We are talking about kubernetes gave you portability of workloads, but how can you do portability of skills and making sure that your talent can really focus where it matters and not be spread too thin, so this is one example that I think Anthos is really unique about using it from our hosted control plane on GCP. >> So let the workloads decide what's best for the workloads and let the clouds naturally use kubernetes. >> Yeah, I mean one thing I've seen in our customer base is, you know the line of business wants to innovate and they want to use the best service for whatever it is that they're doing and the different clouds have different types of services, they have different strengths. So, you don't want centralized IT to say, "Hey, no actually you can't do that, you have to follow this policy." We've seen many examples where centralized IT is taking months to approve cloud services and they've got a backlong of hundreds of services that they need to approve. That's really slowing down innovation, and, "why is that happening?" Because you don't have a consistent platform that you can run and use across clouds. Like you said, kubernetes actually solves that and so that's why were introducing Anthos based on kubernetes, so that you don't have that risk, you don't have that fragmentation and you can innovate faster. >> Lets do one more question and with compounds to complexity is old procurement rules might slow it down. I've got to buy this. So the old baggage on procurement standards, Its kind of a moving train. >> Yeah, I mean enterprise has its policies, we've been talking to some of they largest banks, we had HSBC on stage with us, we had (mumbles), which is one of the largest grocers, we have kohls, these companies have policies and they have compliance requirements and these are very valid compliance requirements and they need to be adhered to. Its just, how can you speed that process up, and if you have a platform that actually spans environments, it doesn't look different in each environment, you can imagine that simplifies the process, it simplifies the approval process because the platform's already pre-approved and then new services as they come online, if they follow a certain pattern, they're kubernetes approved services, then it's much easier to approve them and it's much easier to unlock that productivity without increasing risk. >> If I could poke on that just a little bit (mumbles) approved services isn't a term I've heard yet. There are dozens of providers that have kubernetes, Anthos I know is different but if I go out there and use kubernetes from a different cloud provider or a different service provider. Kubernetes is not a magic layer, everybody builds lots of stuff on top of that and a concern is if I just have a platform that spans all of these environments. There's skillset challenges and do I also get a least common denominator. Cloud is not a utility, GCP is very different from the other clouds, how do I balance that and how do I make sure that I'm actually being able to get the most out of why I choose a specific platform or cloud. >> That's where Anthos is that layer that actually is more than kubernetes. We have, in Anthos, an opinionated platform from google that utilizes kubernetes but it isn't just pure kubernetes, as you would experience it from the open source with the fragmentation, we're working with certified kubernetes distributions and we've got this marketplace where the applications that are in the marketplace have been tested and certified and are supported by a set of partners as well as by Google Cloud to run on these different distributions that you connect and register with Anthos. >> To give maybe another perspective of that, what we have seen with kubernetes is that customers do appreciate that consistency. They have been demanding, for example, that all kubernetes distribution will be conformed. We had that announcement when we were on stage today about consistency and how we can integrate PKS into Anthos. I think what customers are telling us, they don't want us to innovate in that layer. So they appreciate us using open API's and using sensibility which is predefined and actually allows that interoperability of services and this is something that is really in the foundation of Anthos. >> Well you guys have done a great job, we've been following the progress from day one and watching the foundation of Google Enterprise. You guys have been big contributors, congratulations to your work, it's great to see the progress and it seems to be, the train's moving faster on the tracks, so congratulations. I guess my final question for you guys is, boil down Anthos. To the folks watching that are in IT, they're trying to solve some problems, a lot of people realize and wake up, "wow I've got multiple clouds." That's not (mumbles), that's reality. They see billing statements from multiple vendors how they still want maybe hybrid, what does Anthos mean to those people? What is it about, what is it? I'm trying to get bumper sticker. What's the bottom line, what is Anthos? >> So Anthos gives you a choice without the risk. That means that they can choose an existing service or a new green field service to use, On Prem or in the cloud. Containerized or uncontainerized, and they can build on top of that at their own pace. So that's the choice and they can mitigate risk by giving those tools to manage that consistently. The other thing I would say for something that we are not talking a lot about because we are focusing about technology and requirements and constraints is what we hear about our customers that Anthos is good for the engineering teams, and what we hear our customers say, that because they are choosing this technology, their talent is appreciating that they can use the best and latest technology and their skills are portable to other areas as well and they can attract the best talent. That to me is a very big value for us that are looking to do digital transformation. >> I'll take a crack at it as well, so Anthos is Google's opinionated solution for hybrid and multi cloud and it is like Chen said, something that mitigates risk and gives users choice so that they're not locked in to a particular cloud and instead, they can build once and deploy anywhere. From a technical standpoint, it's three things. There's a multi cluster, multi cloud, management plane, that's hosted in Google Cloud. Number two, there's a service management layer which actually bridges your monolithic, migrated services with your green field services that are containerized and treats them all as services that you can secure, manage, and control, and then number three, we have an awesome marketplace from which you can deploy Google Services, you can also deploy partner services, and you can deploy them into anywhere that Anthos is registered and can run. >> So Anthos embraces the cloud, all clouds, all services. >> Anthos embraces the user and it puts the user first. >> Does this benefits, good choice, lock in options, negotiating contracts, developers love it, ... Guys congratulations, thanks for the insight, love the explanation of Anthos, thanks for sharing, appreciate it. (mumbles) Thanks for coming on, cube coverage here live in San Fransisco, we're breaking it down, Google Next 19, day one of three days, there'll be live cube coverage. We have all the leaders, google executives, all the engineers, coming on to explain to us what's happening, thanks for watching, stay with us for more after this short break. (funky music)

(upbeat music) >> Live from San Francisco it's theCUBE. Covering IBM Think 2019. Brought to you by IBM >> Welcome back to theCUBE. I'm Lisa Martin with John Furrier and we are on a rainy San Francisco day. Day three of theCUBE's coverage of IBM Think 2019 here to talk shopping. One of my favorite topics. We have Katie Dunlap VP of Global Unified rather Commerce and Marketing for Bluewolf part of IBM. Katie welcome to theCUBE. >> Welcome, thank you. >> And from Salesforce we have Ben Cesare Senior Director of Global Industry Retail Solutions. Ben it's great to have you on our program. >> How are you? >> Excellent. >> Good. >> Even though we are at the rejuvenated Moscone Center which is fantastic and I think all of the hybrid multi cloud have opened upon San Francisco. >> Right. >> It's a very soggy day. So Katie IBM announced a partnership with Salesforce a couple of years ago. >> Right. >> Just yesterday John and I were chatting. We heard Ginni Rometty your CEO talk about IBM is number one implementer of Salesforce. Talk to us a little bit about the partnership before we get into some specific examples with that. >> So we know that part of that partnership it's really to leverage the best of the technology from Salesforce as well as IBM and ways that we together married together create opportunities for the industry and specifically here today we're talking about retail. >> So on the retail side Salesforce as a great SAS company they keep on blowing the records on the numbers performance wise. SAS business has proven it's a cloud business but retails is a data business. >> Yes. >> So how does IBM look at that? What's the relationship with retail? What's the solution? >> Yeah. >> And what are people looking at Salesforce for retail. >> Yeah, I think it's really important to understand where our strengths are and I think when you talk about Salesforce you talk about Marketing Cloud and Commerce Cloud, Service Cloud. We call that the engagement layer. That's how we can really interact with our consumers with our shoppers. But at the same time to really have a great connection with consumers you need to have great data. You need have great insights. You need to understand what's happening with all the information that drives choices for retailers and that's why the relationship with IBM is absolutely so strong and it is a data driven relationship. Together I guess you can see the customers in the middle. So we have our engagement layer and a data layer. Together we satisfy the customer. >> Lisa what's the solution specifically because obviously you guys going to market together to explain the tactical relationship. You guys join sale, is it an integration? >> Sure. So what we have done given the disruption that's happening right now in the retail space and with the customer at the center of that conversation we've been looking at ways that what the native functionality for Salesforce is Einstein as an intelligent layer and for IBM it's Watson. So where do they complement one another? And so looking at retail with commerce and marketing and service as the center of that conversation and engagement layer. How are we activating and working with a customer from a collection of data information standpoint and activating that data all through supply chain. So the experience is not just the front experience that you and I have when we go to a site it's actually how and when is that delivered to me. If I have an issue how am I going to return that. So we've looked at the entire customer journey and looked at ways that we can support and engage along the way. So for us, we're looking at as you see retail and the way it's evolving is that we're no longer just talking about that one experience where you're actually adding to your cart and your buying. It goes all the way through servicing that customer returning and making sure that information that's specific to me. And if I can choose how I'm going to have that inventory sent to me and those products sent to me. That's exactly what we're looking to do. >> So then the retailer like a big clothing store is much more empowered than they've ever been. Probably really demanded by us consumers who want to be able to do any transaction anywhere started on my phone finish on a tablet, etc. So I can imagine maybe Ben is this like a Watson and Einstein working together to say take external data. Maybe it's weather data for example and combine those external data sources with what a retailer has within their customer database and Salesforce to create very personalized experiences for us shoppers as consumers. >> Right, and where retailers really can grow in terms of the future is really accessing all that data. I think if you look at some of the statistics retailers have up to 29 different systems of records and that's why some of our experiences are very good some of our experiences are not very good. So together if we can collapse that data in a uniform way that really drives personalization, contextual selling so you can actually see what you're buying why you're buying it, why it's just for me. That's the next level and I must say with all the changes in the industry there's some things that will never change and that is consumers want the right product, the right price, the right place and the right time. All enveloped in a great customer experience. That will never change but today we have data that can inform that strategy and when I was a senior merchant at Macy's years ago, I had no data. I had to do a lot of guessing and when mistakes are made that's when retailers have a problem. So if retailers are using data to it's benefit it just make sure that the customer experiences exceptional. And that's what we strive to do together. >> And I can build on that if we're thinking like specifically how we're engaged from a technology perspective. If I'm a merchandiser and I decide I want to run a promotion for New York and I want to make sure before I run that promotion that I have the right inventory and that I not only I'm I creating the right message but I have the information that I need in order to make that successful. One of the things that we partner with Salesforce on is the engagement layer being Salesforce. But in the back end we have access to something called Watson Embedded Business Agent and that business agent actually goes out and talks to all the disparate systems. So it doesn't have to be solutions that are necessarily a homegrown by IBM or Salesforce Watson could actually integrate directly with them and sits on top. So as a merchandiser I can ask the question and receive information back from supply chain. Yes there's enough product in New York for you to run this promotion. It can go out and check to see if there's any disruption that's expected and check in with weather so that as on the back end from an operation standpoint I'm empowered or the right data in order to run those promotions and be successful. >> It's interesting one of the things that comes up with her this expression from IBM. There's no AI without IA information architecture. You talk about systems of record all this silo databases. There's low latency you need to be real time in retail. So this is a data problem, right? So this is where AI really could fit in. I see that happening. The question that I have as a consumer is what's in it for me? Right? So Ben, tell us about the changes in retail because certainly online buying mobile is happening. But what are some of the new experiences that end users and consumers are seeing that are becoming new expectations? What's the big trend in retail? >> Well there's two paths they're your expectations as a consumer, then there's the retailer path and how they can meet your expectations. So let's talk about you first. So what you always want is a great customer experience. That's what you want. And what defines that is are they serving me the products I want when I want them? Are they delivering them on time? Do the products work? If I have a problem, how am I treated? How am I served? And these are all the things that we address with the Salesforce solutions. Now let's talk about the retailer. What's important to the retailer is next retailer myself. It was important that I understood what is my right assortment? And that's hard because you have a broad audience of consumers, you have regional or local requirements. So you want to understand what's the right assortment and working with IBM with their (mumbles) optimizer that helps us out in terms how we promote through our engagement later. That's number one. Number two, how about managing markdowns. This year there were over $300 billion in markdown through retailers. Half of those markdowns 150 billion were unplanned markdowns and that goes right to your P&L. So we want to make sure that the things we do satisfy the consumer but not at the expense of the retailer. The retailer has to succeed. So by using IBM supply chain data information we can properly service you. >> It's interesting we see the trend in retail I mean financial services for early on. >> Yeah. >> High-frequency trading, use of data. That kind of mindset is coming to retail where if you're not a data driven or data architecturally thinking about it. >> Yeah. >> The profit will drop. >> Yeah. >> Unplanned markdowns and other things and inventory variety of things. This is a critical new way to really reimagine retail. >> Yeah retail has become such a ubiquitous term there's retail banking, there's retail in every parts of our life. It's not just the store or online but it's retail everywhere and someone is selling their services to you. So I think the holy grail is really understanding you specifically. And it's not just about historical transact which you bought but behavioral data. What interests you. What are the trends and data has become a much broader term. It's just not numbers. Data is what are your trends? What are you saying on social media? What are you tweeting out? What are you reading.? What videos are you viewing? All that together really gives a retailer information to better serve you. So data is really become exponential in it's use and in it's form. >> So I'm curious what you guys see this retails it's very robust retail use case as driving in the future. We just heard yesterday one of the announcements Watson anywhere. I'm curious leveraging retail as an example and the consumerization of almost any industry because we expect to have things so readily and as you both point out data is commerce. Where do you think this will go from here with Watson Einstein and some of the other technologies? What's the next prime industry that really can benefit from what you're doing in retail? >> I think that I'll start and probably you can add that in as well. But I think that it's going to bleed into everything. So health and life sciences, consumer goods, product goods. We've talked about retail being all different kinds of things right now. Well CPG organizations are actually looking at ways to engage the customer directly and so having access utilizing Watson as a way of engaging and activating data to create insights that you've never thought of before. And so being able to stay a step ahead anticipate the needs stay on the bleeding edge of that interaction so that you're engaging customers in a whole new way is what we see and it's going to be proliferated into all kinds of different industries. >> Yes, every merchant every buyer wants to be able to predict. I mean won't that be incredible be able to see around the corner a bit and and while technologies don't give you the entire answer they can sure get you along the way to make better decisions. And I think with Watson and Einstein it does exactly that. It allows you to really predict what the customers want and that's very powerful. >> I want to get you guys perspective on some trend that we're seeing. We hear Ginni Rometty talk about chapter two of the cloud, you almost say there's a chapter two in retail, if you look at the certainly progressive way out front, doing all the new things. People doing the basics, getting an online presence, doing some basic things with mobile kind of setting the table a foundations, but they stare at the data problem. They almost like so it's a big problem. I know all this systems of record. How do I integrate it all in? So take us through a use case of how someone would attack that problem. Talking about an example a customer or a situation or use case that says okay guys help me. I'm staring at this data problem, I got the foundation set, I want to be a retail have to be efficient and innovative in retail, what do I do? Do I call IBM up, do I call Salesforce? How does that work? Take us through an example. >> So I think the first example that comes to mind is I think about Sally Beauty and how they're trying to approach the market and looking at who they are and many retailers right now because there's such a desire to understand data. Make sure that your cap. Everyone has enough data. But what is the right data to activate and use in that experience. So they came to us to kind of look at are we in the right space because right now everyone's trying to be everything to all people. So how do I pick the right place that I should be and am I in the right place with hair care and hair color? And the answer came back yes. You are in the right space. You need to just dive deeper into that and make sure that that experience online so they used a lot of information from their research on users to understand who their customers are, what they're expecting. And since they sell haircare product that is professional grade. How do I make sure that the customers are getting using it in the proper way. So they've actually created an entire infused way of deciding what exactly hair color you need and for me as a consumer, am I actually buying the right grade level from me and am I using that appropriately. And that data all came from doing the research because they are about to expand out and add in all kinds of things like (mumbles) where you're going into the makeup area but really helping them stay laser focused on what they need to do in order to be successful. >> Because you guys come and do like an audit engage with them on a professional service level. >> Yes, we went end-to-end >> And the buying SAS AI and then they plug in Salesforce. >> Yes, so they actually already had Salesforce. So they had the commerce solution marketing and service. They were fairly siloed so we go back to that whole conversation around data being held individually but not leveraging that as a unit in order to activate that experience for the consumer. What they have decided as a result of our work with them. So we came in and did a digital strategy. We're been involved as an agency of record to support them and how that entire brand strategy should be from an omnichannel perspective in the store, as well as that digital experience and then they actually just decided to go with IBM (mumbles) and use that as a way of activating from an omnichannel order orchestration standpoint. So all the way through that lifecycle we've been engaging them and supporting them and Watson obviously native to Salesforce's Einstein and they're leveraging that but they will be infusing Watson as part of their experience. >> So another benefit that Sally Beauty and imagine other retailers and other companies and other industries, we get is optimizing the use of Salesforce. It's a very ubiquitous tool but you mentioned, I think you mentioned Ben that in the previous days of many, many, many systems of records. So I imagine for Sally Beauty also not just to be able to deliver that personalized customer experience, track inventory but it's also optimizing their internal workforce productivity. But I'm curious-- >> Yes. >> For an organization of that size. What's the time to impact? They come in you guys do the joint implementation, go to market, the consulting, identify the phases of the project, how quickly did Sally Beauty start to see a positive impact on their business? >> I think they... Well there's immediate benefits, right? Because they are already Salesforce clients and so our team our IBM team was able to come in and infuse some best practices and their current existing site. So they've been able to leverage that and see that benefit through all the way through Black Friday and last holiday season. And now what they're seeing is they're on the verge of launching and relaunching their site in the next month and then implementing (mumbles) is a part of that. So they're still on the path in the journey to that success but they've already seen success based on the support that we've provided them. >> And what are some of the learnings you guys have seen with this? Obviously you got existing accounts. They take advantage of this, what are some of the learnings around this new engagement layer and with the data intelligence around AI? What's the learnings have you guys seen? >> Yeah I think the leading thing that I've learned is the power of personalization. It's incredibly powerful. And a good example is one of my favorite grocers and that's Kroger. If we really understand what Kroger has done, I'll talk about their business a bit. I'll talk about what they've been able to do. If you look at someone's shopper basket there's an amazing amount of things you can learn about that. You can learn if they're trying to be fit if they're on a diet. You can learn if their birthdays coming. You can learn if they just had a baby. You can learn so many different things. So with shopper basket analysis, you can understand exactly what coupons you send them. So when I get coupons digital or in my home they're all exactly what I buy. But to do that for 25-30 million top customers is a very difficult thing to do. So the ability to analyze the data, segment it and personalize it to you is extremely powerful and I think that's something that retailers and CPG organizations how they continue to try to do. We're not all the way there. Were probably 30% there I would say but personalization it's going to drive customer for life. That's what it's going to do and that's a massive learning for us. >> And the other thing too Ginni mentioned it in her keynote is the reasoning around the data. So it's knowing that the interest and around the personas, etc. But it's also those surprises. Knowing kind of in advance, maybe what someone might like given their situation-- >> Anticipating. >> And we were talking about this morning. Actually, we're talking about behavioral data and data has taken a different term. >> Data is again what are you doing online what are you talking about, what did you view. What video did you look at. For organizations that have access to that data tells me so much more about your interest right now today. And it's not just about a product but it's about a lifestyle. And if retails could understand your lifestyle that opens the door to so many products and services. So I think that's really what retailers are really into. >> My final question for you guys both of you get the answer. Answer will be great is what's the biggest thing that is going to happen in retail that people may not see coming that's going to be empowering and changing people's lives? What do you guys see as a trend that's knocking on the door or soon to be here and changing lives and empowering people and making them better in life. >> Yeah, I'll jump in on one real quick and I think it's already started but it's really phenomenon of commerce anywhere. Commerce used to be a very linear thing. You'd see an ad some would reach out to you and you buy something. The commerce now is happening wherever you are. You could be tweeting something on Instagram, you could be walking in an airport. You could be anywhere and you can actually execute a transaction. So I think the distance between media and commerce has totally collapsed. It's become real time and traditional media TV, print and radio is still a big part of media. A big part but there's distance. So I think it's the immediacy of media and a transaction. That's really going to take retailers and CPG customers by surprise. >> It changes the direct-to-consumer equation. >> It changes it. It does. >> And I think I would just build on that to say that people have relationships with their brands and the way that you can extend that in this and commerce anywhere is that people don't necessarily need to know they're in that commerce experience. They're actually having a relationship with that individual brand. They're seen for who they are as an individual not a segment. I don't fall into a segment that I'm kind of like this but I'm actually who I am and they're engaging. So the way that I think we're going to see things go as people thinking at more and more out of the box about how to make it more convenient for me and to not hide that it's a commerce experience but to make that more of an engagement conversation that-- >> People centric not person in a database. >> Exactly. >> That's right. >> Moving away from marketing from segmentation and more to individual conversations. >> Yeah I think you said it Ben it's the power of personalization. >> Power of personalization. >> Katie, Ben thanks so much for joining. >> Thank you. >> Talking about what you guys IBM and Salesforce are doing together and we're excited to see where that continues to go. >> Great. >> Thanks so much. >> Our pleasure, thank you. >> We want to thank you for watching theCUBE live from IBM Think 19 I'm Lisa Martin for John Furrier stick around on Express. We'll be joining us shortly. (upbeat music)

(energetic music) >> Live from Miami Beach, Florida. It's theCUBE covering UiPathForward Americas. Brought to you by UiPath. >> Welcome to Miami everybody. This is theCUBE the leader in live tech coverage. We're here covering the UiPathForward Americas conference. UiPath is a company that has come out of nowhere, really. And, is a leader in robotic process automation, RPA. It really is about software robots. I am Dave Vellante and I am here with Stu Miniman. We have one day of coverage, Stu. We are all over the place this weekend. Aren't we? Stu and I were in Orlando earlier. Flew down. Quick flight to Miami and we're getting the Kool-Aid injection from the RPA crowd. We're at the Fontainebleau in Miami. Kind of cool hotel. Stu you might remember, I am sure, you do, several years ago we did the very first .NEXT tour. .NEXT from Nutanix at this event. About this same size, maybe a little smaller. This is a little bigger. >> Dave, this is probably twice the size, about 1,500 people here. I remember about a year ago you were, started buzzing about RPA. Big growth in the market, you know really enjoyed getting into the keynote here. You know, you said we were at splunk and data was at the center of everything, and the CEO here for (mumbles), it's automation first. We talked about mobile first, cloud first, automation first. I know we got a lot of things we want to talk about because you know, I think back through my career, and I know you do too, automation is something we've been talking about for years. We struggle with it. There's challenges there, but there's a lot of things coming together and that's why we have this new era that RPA is striking at to really explode this market. >> Yeah, so I made a little prediction that I put out on Twitter, I'll share with folks. I said there's a wide and a gap between the number of jobs available worldwide and the number for people to fill them. That's something that we know. And there's a productivity gap. And the numbers aren't showing up. We're not seeing bump-ups in productivity even though spending on technology is kind of through the roof. Robotic Process Automation is going to become a fundamental component of closing that gap because companies, as part of the digital process transformation, they want to automate. The market today is around a billion. We see it growing 10 x over the next five to seven years. We're going to have some analysts on today from Forester, we'll dig into that a little bit, they cover this market really, really closely. So, we're hearing a lot more about RPA. We heard it last week at Infor, Charles Phillips was a big proponent of this. UiPath has been in this business now for a few years. It came out of Romania. Daniel Dines, former Microsoft executive, very interesting fellow. First time I've seen him speak. We're going to meet him today. He is a techy. Comes on stage with a T-shirt, you know. He's very sort of thoughtful, he's talking about open, about culture, about having fun. Really dedicated to listening to customers and growing this business. He said, he gave us a data point that they went from nothing, just a couple of million dollars, two years ago. They'll do 140 million. They're doing 140 million now in annual reccurring revenue. On their way to 200. I would estimate, they'll probably get there. If not by the end of year, probably by the first quarter next year. So let's take look at some of the things that we heard in the keynote. We heard from customers. A lot of partners here. Seen a lot of the big SIs diving in. That's always a sign of big markets. What did you learn today at the keynotes? >> Yeah, Dave, first thing there is definitely, one of the push backs about automation is, "Oh wait what is that "going to do for jobs?" You touched on it. There's a lot of staff they threw out. They said that RPA can really bring, you know, 75% productivity improvement because we know productivity improvement kind of stalled out over all in the market. And, what we want to do is get rid of mundane tasks. Dave, I spent a long time of my career helping to get, you know, how to we get infrastructure simpler? How do we get rid of those routine things? The storage robe they said if you were configuring LUNs, you need to go find other jobs. If you were networking certain basic things, we're going to automate that with software. But there are things that the automation are going to be able to do, so that you can be more creative. You can spend more time doing some higher level functions. And that's where we have a skills gap. I'm excited we're going to have Tom Clancy, who you and I know. I've got his book on the shelf and not Tom Clancy the fiction author, but you know the Tom Clancy who has done certifications and education through storage and cloud and now how do we get people ready for this next wave of how you can do people and machines. One of my favorite events, Dave, that we ever did was the Second Machine Age with MIT in London. Talking about it's really people plus machines, is really where you're going to get that boom. You've interviewed Garry Kasparov on this topic and it's just fascinating and it really excites me as someone, I mean, I've lived with my computers all my life and just as a technologist, I'm optimistic at how, you know, the two sides together can be much more powerful than either alone. >> Well, it's an important topic Stu. A lot of the shows that we go to, the vendors don't want to talk about that. "Oh, we don't want to talk about displacing humans." UiPath's perspective on that, and we'll poke them a little on that is, "That's old news. "People are happy because they're replacing their 'mundane tasks.'" And while that's true, there's some action on Twitter. (mumbles name) just tweeted out, replying to some of the stuff that we were talking about here, in the hashtag, which is UiPathForward, #UiPathForward, "Automation displaces unskilled workers, "that's the crux of the problem. "We need best algorithms to automate re-training and "re-skilling of workers. "That's what we need the most for best socio-economic "outcomes, in parallel to automation through "algorithm driven machines," he's right. That gap, and we talked about this at 2MA, is it going to be a creativity gap? It's an education issue, it's an education challenge. 'Cause you just don't want to displace, unskilled workers, we want to re-train people. >> Right, absolutely. You could have this hollowing out of the market place otherwise, where you have really low paid workers on the one end, and you have really high-end creative workers but the middle, you know, the middle class workers could be displaced if they are not re-trained, they're not put forward. The World Economic Forum actually said that this automation is going to create 60-million net new jobs. Now, 60-million, it sounds like a big number, but it is a large global workforce. And, actually Dave, one of the things that really struck me is, not only do you have a Romanian founder but up on stage we had, a Japanese customer giving a video in Japanese with the subtitles in English. Not something that you typically see at a U.S. show. Very global, in their reach. You talked about the community and very open source focus of something we've seen. This is how software grows very fast as you get those people working. It's something I want to understand. They've got, the UiPath that's 2,000 customers but they've got 114,000 certified RPA developers. So, I'm like, okay, wait. Those numbers don't make sense to me yet, but I'm sure our guests are going to be able to explain them. >> And, so you're right about the need for education. I was impressed that UiPath is actually spending some of it the money that it's raised. This company, just did a monster raise, 225-million. We had Carl Ashenbach on in theCUBE studio to talk about that. Jeff Freck interviewed him last week. You can find that interview on our YouTube play list and I think on out website as well. But they invested, I think it was 10-million dollars with the goal of training a million students in the next three years. They've hired Tom Clancy, who we know from the old EMC education world. EMC training and education world. So they got a pro in here who knows to scale training. So that's huge. They've also started a 20-million investment fund investing in start ups and eco-system companies, so they're putting their money where their mouth is. The company has raised over 400-million dollars to date. They've got a 3-billion dollar evaluation. Some of the other things we've heard from the keynote today, um, they've got about 1,400 employees which is way up. They were just 270, I believe, last year. And they're claiming, and I think it's probably true, they're the fastest growing enterprise software company in history, which is kind of astounding. Like you said, given that they came out of Romania, this global company maybe that's part of the reason why. >> I mean, Dave, they said his goal is they're going to have 4,000 employees by 2019. Wait, there are a software company and they raised huge amounts of money. AS you said, they are a triple unicorn with a three billion dollar valuation. Why does a software company need so many employees? And 3,000, at least 3,000 of those are going to be technical because this is intricate. This is not push button simplicity. There's training that needs to happen. How much do they need to engage? How much of this is vertical knowledge that they need to get? I was at Microsoft Ignite two weeks ago. Microsoft is going really deep vertically because AI requires specialized knowledge in each verticals. How much of that is needed from RPA? You've got a little booklet that they have of some basic 101 of the RPA skills. >> I don't know if you can see this, but... Is that the right camera? So, it's this kind of robot pack. It's kind of fun. Kind of go through, it says, you got to reliable friend you can automate, you know, sending them a little birthday wish. They got QR codes in the back you can download it. You know, waiters so you can order online food. There's something called Tackle, for you fantasy football players who help you sort of automate your fantasy football picks. Which is kind of cool. So, that's fun. There's fun culture here, but really it's about digital transformation and driving it to the heart of process automation. Daniel Dines, talked about taking things from hours to minutes, from sort of accurate to perfectly accurate. You know, slow to fast. From very time consuming to automated. So, he puts forth this vision of automation first. He talked about the waves, main frames, you know the traditional waves client server, internet, etc. And then, you know I really want to poke at this and dig into it a little bit. He talked about a computer vision and that seemed to be a technical enabler. So, I'm envisioning this sort of computer vision, this visual, this ability to visualize a robot, to visualize what's happening on the screen, and then a studio to be able to program these things. I think those are a couple of the components I discerned. But, it's really about a cultural shift, a mind shift, is what Daniel talked about, towards an automation first opportunity. >> And Dave, one of the things you said right there... Three things, the convergence of computer vision, the Summer of AI, and what he meant by that is that we've lived through a bunch of winters. And we've been talking about this. And, then the business.. >> Ice age of a, uh... >> Business, process, automation together, those put together and we can create that automation first era. And, he talked about... We've been talking about automation since the creation of the first computer. So, it's not a new idea. Just like, you know we've been talking on theCUBE for years. You know, data science isn't a new thing. We sometimes give these things new terms like RPA. But, I love digging into why these are real, and just as we've seen these are real indicators, you know, intelligence with like, whether you call it AI or ML, are doing things in various environments that we could not do in the past. Just borders of magnitude, more processing, data is more important. We could do more there. You know, are we on the cusp of really automation. being able to deliver on the things that we've been trying to talk about a couple of generations? >> So a couple of other stats that I thought were interesting. Daniel put forth a vision of one robot for every person to use. A computer for every person. A chicken for every pot, kind of thing (laughs) So, that was kind of cool. >> "PC for every person," Bill Gates. >> Right, an open and free mind set, so he talked a about, Daniel talked about of an era of openness. And UiPath has a market place where all the automations. you can put automations in there, they're all free to use. So, they're making money on the software and not on the automation. So, they really have this... He said, "We're making our competitors better. "They're copying what we're doing, "and we think that's a good thing. "Because it's going to help change the world." It's about affecting society, so the rising tides lift all boats. >> Yeah Dave, it reminds me a lot of, you know, you look at GitHub, you look at Docker Hub. There's lots of places. This is where code lives in these open market places. You know, not quite like the AWS or IBM market places where you can you can just buy software, but the question is how many developers get in there. They say they got 250,000 community members already there. So, and already what do they have? I think hundreds of processes that are built in there, so that will be a good metric we can see to how fast that scales. >> We had heard from a couple of customers, and Wells Fargo was up there, and United Health. Mr. Yamomoto from SNBC, they have 1,000 robots. So, they are really completely transforming their organization. We heard from a partner, Data Robot, Jeremy Atchins, somebody who's been on theCUBE before, Data Robot. They showed an automated loan processing where you could go in, talk to a chat bot and within minutes get qualified for a loan. I don't know if you noticed the loan amount was $7,000 and the interest rate was 13.6% so the applicant, really, must not of had great credit history. Cause that's kind of loan shark rates, but anyway, it was kind of a cool demo with the back end data robot munging all the data, doing whatever they had to do, transferring through a CSV into the software robot and then making that decision. So, that was kind of cool, those integrations seemed to be pretty key. I want to learn more about that. >> I mean it reminds me of chat box have been hot in a lot of areas lately, as how we can improve customer support and automate things on infrastructure in the likes of, we'll see how those intersections meet. >> Yeah, so we're going to be covering this all day. We got technologists coming on, customers, partners. Stu and I will be jamming. He's @Stu and I'm @Dvellante. Shoot us any questions, comments. Thanks for the ones we've had so far. We're here at the Fontainebleau in Miami Beach. Pretty crazy hotel. A lot of history here. A lot of pictures of Frank Sinatra on the wall. Keep it right there, buddy. You're watching theCUBE. We'll be right back after this short break. (energetic music)

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Google Cloud Next 2018, brought to you by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. (electronic music) >> Hello, everyone, welcome to theCUBE, here, live in San Francisco at Masconi South. We're here with Google Cloud Next Conference. It's Google Next 2018. It's theCUBE's exclusive three days of wall-to-wall coverage. I'm John Furrier, and I'm joined with my co-host Dave Vallente. Jeff Rick's here, the whole team is here. This is a big break out moment for Google Cloud and we're going to break it down for you. Going to have interviews with Diane Green coming in today, Google Executives, Google's top women in the Cloud, top customers, and top people within the ecosystem. Google Cloud is really going to the next level. This show is really about coming out party for two years of work that Diane Green and her team have been doing, transforming Google from the largest Cloud for their own business, to making Google Cloud consumable and easy to use with the technology for large enterprise customers as well as developers around the world, global platform. Dave, we had the keynote here. I'd say Google we're seeing, introduce their Google Cloud service platform GCP certifying partners, Cisco announced on stage they are re-selling Google Cloud, which takes a big objection off the table around not having a quote, "Enterprise ready sales force". Google is in every large enterprise, Google's Cloud is morphing into a large scale technology driven Cloud. The number one advantage they have is their technology, their OpenSource, and now a partnership with Cisco, and all the machine learning and all the infrastructure that they have are bringing out a new look. This is Google's coming out party. This is really two years of hard work, that Diane Green and the team have accomplished. Working, bringing on new people, bringing on a whole new set of capabilities. Checking the boxes for the table stakes, trying to get it to pull position, for the Cloud game, obviously Amazon is significantly ahead of everybody. Microsoft making great progress, their stock is up. Microsoft, although leveraging their core confidency, the enterprise and the office, and all the existing business that they do. Again a B to B, Google bringing in end-user centric view with all the automation. Big announcements. Google Cloud services platform, Histeo is now shipping in production, doubling down on Kubernetes, this is Google looking at new abstraction layers for developers and businesses. Diane Green, not the most elegant in her keynotes, but really hitting all her marks that she needed to hit. Big customer references, and really showcasing their competitive advantage, what they want to do, the posture of Google Cloud is clear, next is the execution. >> So here at Google Next 25,000 registered people, so big crowd. Diane Green said on stage 3000 engineers here, we want to talk to you. The Cisco announcements, classic case of a company without a Cloud, wanting to partner up with somebody that has a Cloud, Google, and Google, without a big enterprise sales presence. Obviously Cisco brings that. So kind of match made in heaven. Obviously, Cisco's got relationships with other Cloud providers, particularly Microsoft but, to me this makes a lot of sense. It's going GA in August, you also saw underneath that, GKE, Google Kubernetes Engine, now it's on prem, so you're seeing recognition of hybrid. We heard Diane Green talk about two years ago when she started John, she got a lot of heat from the analysts. You're not really an enterprise company, you got a long way to go, it's going to take you a decade. She basically laid down the gun and said, we are there. We'll talk about that. We'll talk about what leadership means. You just made a comment that Amazon is obviously in the lead. What is leadership? How does Google define leadership? Clearly they're leading in aspects of the Cloud. Scale, automation, OpenSource, contributing a lot, it makes me wonder, does this hundred plus billion dollar company with a hundred billion dollars in the bank, do they really care about how much money they make in the enterprise? Or are they trying to sort of change the way in which people do development, do programming, that's maybe a form of leadership that we really haven't often seen in the industry. I mean I go back, I harken back, not that it's an exact comparison, but you think about Xerox park and all the contributions they made to the industry, think about the contributions that Google's making with TensorFlow, with Kubernetes, with Istio, a lot of OpenSource chops giving to the community. And taking their time about monetizing it, not that a couple billion dollars or billion dollars a quarter is not monetization, but compared to 25 billion of Amazon, and what Microsoft's doing it's much smaller market share. >> I mean that's a great point about the monet, all the analysts and all the Wall Street guys are going to go to try to figure out, squint through the numbers try to figure out how you make money on this. We've been talking to a lot of the Google Executives and a lot of the engineers leading up to Google Next, we've had great relationship, some of their inside people. The common theme Dave that I'm hearing is absolutely they're playing the long game, but if Google's smart, they will leverage their retail business, ads and other things, and not focus on the short-term monetization, and that's pretty clear, some of the posture. That they're looking at this as an engineering culture, engineering DNA, OpenSource DNA, and they're about speed. When I press Google people and say, "What is the DNA of Google Cloud?". It all comes back down to the same thing, inclusive, open, speed. They're going to focus on how to make things faster, that has always been the culture at Google, make page loads faster, make things go faster. Amazon has the notion of, ship things as fast as possible at lower prices. Amazon is make stuff go faster and make it easy to use from a consumer standpoint so, easy of use has always been a consumer DNA of Google, and now with Cloud, if they don't focus on the short-term, they continue to march the cadence of open, speed, ease of use, and take that user-centric view, to make things easier that's key. I'm really impressed with the announcement, one little kind of technical kind of nuance is this Istio. Istio is an extension of Kubernetes, and this is where you're starting to see some signals from Google on where they're going to be scanning through with (mumbles). And that is as Kubernetes builds on top of containers, and as Kubernetes starts to be more of an orchestration layer, the services that are deployed in the Cloud are going to have more and more functionality. This is classic moving up the stack. This is an only an opportunity to build abstraction layers, that make things really easy to consume, and make things faster. If they can get that position, that beach head, they will enable developer greatness, and that'll maybe hopefully change the game a little bit, and sling shot them into a position that's different than what Amazon, I mean, what Microsoft's doing. Microsoft's just brute force, throwing everything at Cloud. The numbers look good on paper, but will that truly translate to ease of use, large scale, global deployment, managing data at scale. I mean Google's great some technology, and that is their number one thing that they have a their disposal. >> Well Istio, the classic case of dog fooding, right John? I mean there's Google, using tons and tons of micro services for its own purposes, enter gate, how do we simplify this? How do we automate this? And how do we pay it forward? And that's what they do, that's their culture. This is a company that's, again, talk about leadership, they spent well over $10 billion a year on Capex, you can argue easily they got the biggest Cloud in the world, certainly they got more underwater cable, the biggest network in the world, so these are forms of leadership. Diane Green talked about information technology powering every aspect of the business. I mean we've heard that since Nick Carr said IT doesn't matter, but now it seems like more than ever, it's more important. She also said CIO's realized they're not in the data center business, but yet they only have a small fraction of their workloads in the Cloud. This is why she said Google is seeing, and others I'm sure, seeing such big growth in the Cloud. But then she underscored, but we're modern Cloud. We're not lift and shift Cloud. We're not doing what Oracle's doing and sticking the existing apps in the Cloud. We're doing things differently. You talk about this a lot John, you talked to a couple of really high level women in Google, about the new development model, the new programming model, they're really changing the way in which people think about software development. >> Yeah I mean I think one of the things that's clear is that, the modern era can hear around software development. Software development life cycle, certainly we hear, Agile have been going on for the DevOps movement and that's kind of been out there, but what's changing now is that software engineering, or software development, isn't just computer science. You don't need three computer science degrees to do Cloud and do development. The aperture is widening on what computer science is, that's opening up more women in tech, and as Diane Green pointed out on her keynote, there's a re-engineering of business going on, there's new discoveries happening, and half the population is women, and so women should be part of making the products consumed by women and other people. So there's a huge opportunity to fill the gender diversity gap, but more importantly I think what's interesting about Google Cloud in particular is that they kind of figured out something, and it might have been a pop to their arrogance balloon but it used to be, "Oh, everyone wants to be like Google, 'cause we're so huge and we're great". 'Cause they are. Their technology is phenomenal, you look at what Google's built and Urs has been on stage, they have built probably the best most complex system to power their business, and all of a sudden that's come out from map produced paper, Kubernetes, which they're now doubling down on, Google has done amazing. They're about 10 to 15 years ahead of the market in terms of technology by my estimate. The problem that they've had when they first started doing Cloud was, oh just, you want to be like Google. No people don't want to be like Google, people can't be like Google, what they now understand is that people want what Google has, and that's ease of use, DevOps, fully com instead of libraries, com instead of interfaces, really ease of rolling out at scale applications. That's different. People want the benefits of what Google has for their business, not, they don't want to be like Google. I think that was the, I think that Diane Green two years ago, came in and reset. They've hired great enterprise people, and the question is can they catch up? How fast can they catch up? They're checking the boxes, they're doing the table stakes, and can they harvest the best that they're making? Auto ML is a great example. IT operations is going to be decimated as an industry sector. All the industry analysts and the financial analysts have not yet observed this but, anyone who's in the business of IT operations is going to get decimated. Automation's going to take that away and make it a service, it's going to be a human component, but the value is going to shift up the stack. This is something that we're seeing as to look at value of start ups, IT operations, AI operations, this is a new category of the industry, and Google is betting on that. That to me is a big tell sign. >> And we've been talking about the economics of that for years, but I want to come back to something you said. Google clearly was late to the enterprise party, and I think part of the reason you were touching on this is I think they underestimated the degree to which organizations, enterprise in particular, have all this technical debt built up. You can't just rip out and replace, these companies are making money with their existing Oracle databases, with their existing outdated processes, but they're making money, they're meeting Wall Street expectations, they're making their big bonuses so they can't just stop doing that. It'd be like Google to your point, but Google is playing the long game, they are doing something differently, and they're trying to help people get to this new era of software development, so I think that's a very very important point. >> Melody Meckfessel, one of the VP of Engineering, she is going to announce a survey that she did. It's interesting, they pulled the human aspect of development, and they asked the question, "What do you care about?". And developers care about generally the enterprise and kind of Cloud native developers, really two things. Technical debt, and time to push code. If technical debt accumulates, that's a huge problem, makes them unhappy, makes them kind of, not happy with how things are going, and then also speed. If you're shipping code it takes more than a few minutes to get back the commits that it hit. That's a problem. This is a huge issue. You said technical debt. Enterprise IT has been accumulating decades of technical debt, that's now running the company. So as re-engineering the business theme that Diane Green points out, really is spot on, people are going to stop buying IT and be deploying services more in the future, and using those services to drive business value. This to me is a big shift, this is what's going to hurt in (mumbles) and enterprises that, no one's buying IT. They're building platforms, the product is the platform, and the sense of services will enable applications to sit on top of them. This is an absolute mindset shift, and that impacts every vertical that we cover. You've covered IOT and everything else. The way CIOs think about this is they think about a portfolio, and it's just to simplify it. It's like run the business, grow the business, transform the business. And by far, the biggest investments are in run the business, and they can't stop running the business, they can't stop investing in running that business. What they can do is say, okay we can grow the business with these new projects and these new initiatives, and we can transform the business with new models of software development, as we transform into a digital company as a software company. So that it increasingly going to be pouring investments there, and it's slowly sunset, the run the business apps. It happens over decades. It doesn't happen over night. >> Well that's actually the number one point I think that didn't come out in the keynote but Earl's talked about it, where he said the old model is lift and shift. When we covered at the Linux foundation, and the CNC app, and the other shows that we go to is that what containers and Kubernetes are bringing to the market, the real value of that, is that existing IT CIOs don't have to rip and replace old apps, and that's a lot of pressure, the engineering requirements, there's personnel requirements, there's migration, so with Kubernetes and containers, containers and Kubernetes, you can essentially keep them around for as long as they need to be around. So you can sunset the applications and let the apps take its natural life cycle course, while bringing in new functionality. So if you want to be Cloud native right out of the gate, with Google Cloud, and some of these great services, like AI and machine learning that's going on, you can actually bring it in natively, containerize and with Kubernetes and now Istio, build a set of services to connect existing applications, and not feel the pressure and the heat, the budget for it, the engineer for it, to actually hire against it, to manage the existing life cycle. This is a huge accelerant for Cloud native. The rip and replace doesn't have to happen. You can certainly sunset applications at will, but you need to kill the old, to bring in the new. This is a very very important point. >> Yeah so a couple things that Diane Green hit on that I just want to go quickly through her keynote. She talked about, like you say, a small fraction of workloads are actually in the Cloud, but she asked the question, why Google? She said "Look, we're an enterprise company, but we're a modern enterprise company. We take all the information from that Cloud, we organize it, we allow you to put it back intelligently. We've got a global Cloud and it's unbelievably complex. We've got 20 years of scaling and optimizing, with that elite team. We've the most advanced Cloud in the world". She said, she didn't give the number, but many many football size, football stadium size data centers around the world that are carbon neutral with tons of fiber under the ocean, specialized processors, talked about Spanner, which is this amazing distributed, globally distributed consistent transactional database, big query, and she also talked about a consistency with a common core set of primitives. Now I want to ask her about that, 'cause I think she was taking a shot at Amazon, but I'm not sure, if they have a, to make a similar statement, so we're going to ask her about that when she comes on. She also said, the last thing I'll share with you is, "AI and security are basically hand in hand". She said security is what everybody's worried about, AI is the big opportunity, those are the two areas where Google is putting some of its greatest resources. >> That was my favorite sound bite by the way, she said, "Security's the number one worry, and AI is the number one opportunity". Really kind of points to it. On the primitive things, I don't think that's so much a shot at Amazon, as in it's more of multi Cloud. We've been kind of seeing multi Cloud vapor ware for months, past year, 'cause it kind of is. What we were seeing with Cloud native community and OpenSource is multi Cloud can only happen if you can run the same map across multiple Clouds with common interfaces, and that ultimately is I think what they're trying to solve. My favorite sound bites from her keynote is, she said, quote, "We've got 20 years scaling Google Cloud", it's obviously very large, number one Cloud, if you want to put Clouds in benchmarks and without (mumbles) of the enterprise number one, in terms of tech and scale. But she says, "My main job at Google two years ago was surfacing the great technologies and services, and make it easy to use. We have a technical infrastructure, TI, that has big query, Spanner, and then consistencies across all primitives", and she said on top of the technical infrastructure they got Gmail, Gsuite, maps, et cetera et cetera, powering at large scale, dealing with all the threat intelligence, and a ton of body of technology around II. And then to cap it all off, leader in OpenSource. To me this is where Google's betting big, with security as the number one worry, which is a major check box with AI kind of the catnip for developers. And they got security features. If you compare Amazon to Google Cloud, Amazon wins on sense of services in terms of number of features, but the question is, does Google have the right features? These are the questions we're going to have. And the dig at Amazon was Reed Hastings, Netflix CEO, friend of Diane Green, I've seen them both speak at Stanford, so she bumped into, what she said, "Reed Hastings is a power user of Google Chrome and Gsuite", and kind of said how great it is, but that's not Netflix. Now Netflix is an Amazon customer, so interesting jab there was about Reed Hastings personally but not about Netflix being a customer of Google Cloud. The question is, can Diane Green convince Reed Hastings to move Netflix from Amazon to Google Cloud? That's the question I'm going to ask her. >> The other piece of the keynote that I thought was quite interesting was Urs Holzle, who's the Senior Vice President of Technology Infrastructure who was doing Cloud before anybody talked about Cloud, he said, "Cloud's a fundamental shift in computing. GCP gives you access to unlimited computing on the world's largest network". Talked about Spanner, the globally consistent distributed database, ML APIs for doing speech and natural language recognition. Big query, the big data warehouse, basically a silo buster, but he said what's still missing, is essentially that hybrid (mumbles) all the Cloud's are different. I interpreted that meaning closed. So he said, "Things like setting up a network, provisioning a virtual machine, are all different". And basically to your point John, that stuff is going to get automated away. So Istio, they talked about Apogee, visibility, orchestration, serverless, they talked about GKE on prem, which is Google Kubernetes Engine on prem, and then Cisco came out on stage. The big partnership, the big news from the keynote. >> Lets talk about what we're going to look for this week in Google Cloud, and also within the industry. Dave I'll start. I'm looking for Google's technology architecture map, which I love, I think they've got a great solution, does that translate to the enterprise? In other words, can they take what Google has and make it usable and consumable for enterprises without having the be like Google strategy, use what Google has benefited from, in a way that enterprises can consume. I'm going to look for that, see how the technology can fit in there. And then I think the most important thing that I'm going to swing through all the hype here and the comment and the news and Kool Aid that they're spreading around, is how are they making the ecosystem money? Because if Google Cloud wants to take the long game, they got to secure the beach head of the viable, large scale Cloud which I think they're doing extremely well. Can they translate that into a ecosystem flourishing market? Does that make money for developers? They talk about going into verticals as a core strategy and healthcare being one. Can they go in there, in financial services, manufacturing, transportation, gaming and media, and attract the kind of partners and business customers that allow them to do better business? Does it translate the distribution for developers? Do businesses make more money with Google? That to me is the ultimate tell sign with how Google Cloud translates to the market place. Ecosystem, benchmark, and value to customers in terms of money making, utility of the users, and their customers' customers. >> So two things for me John. One is the same as yours is ecosystem. I learned from the SiliconANGLE editorial team, by the way, go to siliconangle.com, there's some great editorial to drop this week in support of just what's going on in Cloud and Google Next, but I learned from reading that stuff, Google late to the party. Only 13,000 partners. Amazon's got 100,000 Cloud partners. (mumbles) has 70,000 Cloud partners. Where, what's the ecosystem strategy, how are they going to grow? How are they going to help make money? The second thing is, basic question, I want to understand what Google wants in the Cloud. What's their objective? I know Amazon wants to dominate infrastructures of services, and be the leader there. I know that Microsoft wants to take its existing software state, bring it to the Cloud. I'm not really clear on what exactly Google's objectives are. So I want to get clarity on that. >> I think it's going to be developers, and one of the things we're going to dig into as the OpenSource. theCUBE coverage here in San Francisco, live coverage of three days wall-to-wall, (mumbles) Dave Vallante, stay with us. thecube.net is where you can find the live feed if you're watching this on SiliconANGLE or around the web, or with Syndicate. Go to thecube.net to get all the content, and siliconangle.com has a Cloud special this week. The team is putting out a ton of content. Covering the news, critical analysis, and what it means and the impact of Google Cloud into the industry and to their customers. So I'm John Furrier, Dave Vallante, stay with us, live coverage here, be right back. (electronic music)

>> From Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE. Covering SAP SAPPHIRE NOW 2018 Brought to you by NetApp. >> Welcome to theCUBE, I'm Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend and we are in Orlando at SAP SAPPHIRE 2018. This is an enormous event, 16 football fields. American football fields is the size of this space. Incredible, we're welcoming back to theCUBE, one of our distinguished alumni. >> Thank you. >> Uddhav Gupta you are the global vice-president and GM of the SAP App Center, welcome back to theCUBE. >> Yes, thank you so much, thank you for having me. And isn't this a lovely event? >> It's amazing. >> It is. >> So much energy and excitement yesterday during Bill McDermott's keynote. He talked about SAP, 46 years old now, has 398,000 customers and is responsible for 77% you said of the world's transactions. >> Yes, yes. >> Unreal. >> And you know the best part about this is we got 77% of the transactions, and if you walk around and ask people about SAP, they don't even know SAP, right? It's funny, I'm from the Bay Area and the first time people started taking SAP and acknowledging the brand of SAP was when they start to see SAP Center. Because that's home. >> The shark tank. >> To the Sharks. >> Yup. >> And they're like, oh, that was the first time. And then the second time we put a building out. We bought SuccessFactors and we got a SuccessFactors building by the airport and then, "Oh yeah we know SAP from the building next to the airport." But now people are starting to becoming really serious of associating themselves with the brand because now they started understanding what a crucial role SAP plays in their lives, right? If SAP doesn't do what it does, the entire supply chain for many large enterprises stops, right? Which means, your beverages don't come, and your food doesn't come in, nothing, right? Your lines are stopped. >> Yeah, we're with you. Your medicine doesn't come. >> Right. >> It is just. >> Yes. >> Well you guys have had Bill McDermott has talked about for a while about, we wanna become one of the world's top 10 most valuable brands but for invisible software you know you talk about, you want to be up there with the Apples and we can engage and touch with so many of these brands, and people probably don't know, a lot of people. >> Yes. >> That they are using SAP that's driving so many businesses, industries, and you guys have done a very good job of articulating your brand value through the voices of your customers who are transforming industries, they're saving lives, and also your partner ecosystem. So talk to us about the partner ecosystem and how they're really enabling partners like NetApp. What you're doing with the App Center to really enable SAP's growth and transformation through your partner ecosystem. >> Absolutely, so one of the good things is, if you look at the different transformations that the software industry has gone and cloud is one big one, right? And right now, with the cloud that one day we've regarded is the Cloud is a completely different dynamics of software. It's a very closed environment, the software itself so not everybody can actually basically just go ahead and deploy anything within the software itself, right? So that's created a huge economy of ecosystem for us where we've got partners that are building Sas Solutions, that extend our core business products. We got partners that are building content services that can actually be consumed within our business products. Similarly, SAP has made this transition from being more of a software applications company to actually being a platform company and now taking it into the cloud. So we've got a whole new generation of partners that we kind of started working with that provide technology services into the platform, right? And that's why we work with partners like NetApp. We work with partners like (mumbles). We works with partners, even SIs. They're starting to build a whole bunch of repeatable solutions, right? So in order to bring all these innovations that are happening around the SAP ecosystem, in the hands of our customers, like NetApp is a customer of SAP, too. How do we bring that easily into their hands so they can discover these products? They can try the products, they can buy these products. And then they can manage these products. And that's the whole idea of the App Center. >> And this has only been around for a year. In fact, you just celebrated your first birthday. >> Exactly. >> But a tremendous volume of apps that are already available. >> Yes, it's amazing. >> For try and buy. >> The ecosystem has really embraced us, they put their hands open, right? So within a year we've got 1100 partners that are on the App Center. We've got 1500 solutions that are on the App Center. And we are growing like crazy, right? We've got amazing endorsements from partners and donor. We've got amazing endorsement from customers. Some customers have come and done repeated purchases on the App Center within a month, right? The number of trials we're executing for partners is huge. On the whole, it's doing really well. >> So let's talk about the range of applications. I know when I think of App Center I think of App Center on my phone. >> Yes. >> And I can go and get something as silly as a flashlight or, in my case, as life-changing as my running app that keeps track of my fitness over the course of several years and I have great data to mine from that. What types of applications and industries, what industries do they serve in the App Center? >> So the App Center is really made for businesses. >> Right. >> So definitely we don't have Candy Crush there, right? (everyone laughs) >> Don't ask them. >> I don't know if that's a good thing. >> Oh, that's good, right, but you have a bunch of fun application for enterprises, right? Which allow them to get a better insight in how the company is operating. And then we have, to give you analogy to your fitness application that gives you a better idea of how your body works. We've got application that basically do the same thing for enterprises, right? So let me give you an example. We've got a major SI that actually has built an audit and compliance application for HR, right? So I can actually tell you, within your organizations what's your diversity ratio, what's your compliance ratio, how are people being paid, gender equality and gender pay, equal pay is a big topic that many CIOs are looking at. It kind of helps on those kinds of areas, right? Then we've got apps or solutions in there that basically deal with helping customers do better sales, right? We have apps in there that basically help provide you tools that can better monitor your platforms, right? Tools that help you migrate. All these things are available on the App Center. >> I'm curious from a differentiation standpoint, SAP has been very vocal about wanting, challenging the old legacy CRM. >> Yes. >> And wanting to be number one. Against their, you know, the (mumbles) competitors. How does the App Center and how you've enabled it so quickly and with such diversity of apps, how does this differentiate SAP? >> Absolutely, so we've owned the back office for a very long time now, right? So now it's time for us to basically get in front of the end users and get into the daily work that they do. It's very important for us to also own different offers. That's a whole big initiative, you heard with C4, right? To enable that, we've got cloud platform, right? And that's the other biggest piece of the puzzle, right? Now when you add these two things up, you don't basically, when you look at customers, the biggest thing for them is time to value, right? The whole concept of the bill versus buy is kind of starting to fade and the customer like, "Here's my problem, is there a solution out of the box "that can actually solve my problem?" If he gets a 100%, great, if he gets 90%, okay. If he gets 80%, I'll take it and then I'll improvise on it. And that's exactly what the App Center does. It gives you an out of the box solution from our ecosystem. So you can get started with it, and then you can collaborate with the ecosystem, to either improvise on it or take a step back and say, "Okay, now we've plugged the hole, now let's find "a more detailed solution to actually build "a more scalable outcome out of it." >> So let's talk about licensing flexibility from apps and App Center. One how do customers pay for. >> Yes. >> Their apps in the App Center? And then two, what are the licensing options for both partners and customers, for those individual apps? >> So the beauty of the apps and then the way we started up is the transaction is directly happening between the partners and the customers. So the partners can actually price their applications the way they wanted, right? So some partners that are basically doing content services are doing it by based on utilization, right? So you actually use this many number of API calls, that's how it's priced. Some of the others are doing SAS applications and they are pricing it by users. So the partners have complete flexibility of pricing and packaging the way they want. Also because we're actually using the App Center to sell to enterprises, it's very unlikely that somebody's gonna go ahead and say, "Oh, he has a gold, bronze, and silver package, "I'm just gonna pick one of them." On the App Center you can actually go ahead and custom package or create custom packages with tailored customs and conditions that are specific to that customer. And the customer can then buy it, right? So we've kind of thought of this from an enterprise standpoint. And that's the beauty, right? When you work with partners like NetApp, that is important for them, right? NetApp is a partner that basically goes ahead and works with some of the largest businesses, right? It's important for them to have the flexibility to go ahead and do the business with them digitally. >> So I'm curious. At every event we talk about digital transformation, right? It's table stakes these days. But at SAPPHIRE 2018 there's been a lot of discussion around the intelligent enterprise. >> Yes. >> I'm curious how this one year old App Center that SAP has built and that you're managing, how are you using the data that you're getting about the types of apps that are being developed and consumed, how are you utilizing that data to transform SAP? >> Absolutely, if you think of the intelligent enterprise, we're doing everything that we can from the platform side. But what's the point of being intelligent if you don't apply your intelligence somewhere, right? And that's exactly. >> You're like my mother. >> (laughs) And that's what we're trying to do with their apps, right? So while the platform is intelligent. It can do a lot of stuff. The apps are the one that will help you derive the value from the platform. And that's where the App Center is super important and the apps that are on the App Center support the product. That's the role within the apps in the place for the intelligent enterprise. >> So Bill McDermott also talked about trust and the trust is the new currency. When you put forth something like the SAP App Center, you're kind of co-signing that, you know what, these apps, these are partners, and this is a partner exchange. Can you talk to the value to the enterprise of wanting to something like a App Center to purchase applications? >> Oh, trust is a big thing, right? These days, I mean, you. Enterprises come to SAP because they know SAP is such a trusted brand. So when we did the App Center we also made sure that every app that goes on the App Center is actually totally validated by an integration and certification center team, right? So you don't find anything on the App Center that has not gone through a vetting process. The second thing you don't know show that on the app center you find apps that are relevant to your SAP landscape and that's not a Shopify, right? You're not going and selling something that has no relevance to the enterprise. The third thing that we've done, and very important for customers is we've actually built workflows that allows them to still have the same comfort of procuring a software but only doing it digitally. So, for example, a customer may say, "Look, not every user "in my company is allowed to buy apps." But if a user is interested in buying an app, he should be able to request purchase, and then somebody who's entitled in the company to go through contracts and negotiate on behalf of the company can actually negotiate it, and then the purchase happens. So we will employ trust at every level of the App Center. >> Security is such a hot topic these days, right? I mean, there's been so many public breaches of corporate data, there's just one again the other day with, I think it was MyDNA or MyHeritage. >> Yes. >> And that kind of opportunity for people to submit a cheek sample and get their DNA is so popular. That's a lot of personal information. So the security woven into the fabric of that is all key. >> Absolutely. >> So you mentioned the number of partners and the number of apps. I think you said thousand partners. >> A thousand partners and 1500 apps. >> 1500 apps in the first year. >> In the first year. >> What are you excited about for the next year? What do you think we're gonna be talking about next SAPPHIRE? >> I think the growth in the number of apps and partners that are gonna come over, it's gonna be a hockey stick event we're completely looking forward to that. But what's gonna be interesting is, as these apps come by, and you've pointed it out, security is one topic, but GDPR compliance is another big one. So one of the things that we've been working with a lot of these partners is to basically become more and more GDPR compliant. Because some of these apps are dealing with HR data. Some of these apps are gonna start dealing with customer data and they have to be GDPR compliant. So that's what we're working on with them and we'll see more and more of those kind of things happen. But the second big thing that we're looking forward is going beyond the apps, right? We call it the App Center, we could call it Solution Center, we could call it anything. But the idea is you gonna have apps, but you're also gonna have vendors like NetApp being able to digitally sell the products to our end customers, right? Somebody bought HANA, they need a HANA appliance, with an adapt storage, that's possible on the App Center. Or some other tools, somebody's existing NetApp customer managing really large SAP landscapes. And they can buy tools that will basically help them manage the NetApp landscape, right? Or SAP landscape running a NetApp gear. So those are kinds of things that I'm looking forward to actually coming into the App Center. The third thing is sensors. People are building IoT Scenarios and we are having tons of partners basically certify sensors against our IoT technology. How about we bring those into the App Center, right? So it's gonna be a huge and beautiful portfolio of solutions. >> Practical question before we let you go is. Simple concept 'cause my mind is working and I come from a traditional SAP shop. So I'm thinking, what interesting things have you seen customers do with SRM and the App Center. I mean, it seems like, App Center, another supplier for SRM should be some integrations? Am I making an assumption? What are some of, as we look at, or even App Center and someone that has SAP core products, what are some of the integration for them? >> Oh, you hit the nail, right? What some of the customers are coming back to us and asking is, can you actually do an App Center specifically for my enterprise, right? Where I as a user can basically go, curate a whole bunch of apps that I've kind of looked at the terms and conditions or have met certain standards, etcetera. And accept the terms of conditions for those products right? Accept those products, negotiate the price, or whatever they do. And then make that open to all of my users of their ecosystem, right? So that way, anybody in that scenario can actually go purchase an app and start using it in production. >> And then I have all of my work full from SRM to approve the purchase of the app. >> Exactly, so it kind of ties in very neatly into that. >> So your 18th SAPPHIRE. >> Yes. >> What are some of the key takeaways that you're gonna go back to the Bay Area with? >> You know, the beauty is every SAPPHIRE keeps growing bigger and bigger and the questions every three, four year we've done a new transformation, right? Last year when I come to this conference, people were still kind of unaware and not really ready to embrace the cloud in an enterprise base. This year, I didn't hear one customer say, "Should we go to the cloud?" Everybody like, "We are on the cloud, how can you help us?" How can SAP and customers and partners like NetApp actually help us get there? And that's a refreshing feel, right? Because now we can talk to them about all the grand plans that we have for them. Prior we were basically still selling them on the concept. Now we're actually walking them and talking to them about how they embrace the cool stuff that we're doing. >> Awesome. >> So it's refreshing. >> It is cool stuff. >> It is. >> Uddhav, thanks so much for stopping by theCUBE. >> Thank you so much for having me. >> Talking with Keith and me about what you guys are doing with the App Center and happy first birthday again. >> Thank you, thank you. >> Thank you for watching theCUBE. Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend at SAP SAPPHIRE 2018. Thanks for watching.