(electronic music) >> Presenter: Live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's theCUBE! Covering Red Hat Summit 2019, brought to you by Red Hat (electronic music) >> Welcome back here on The Cube, continuing our live coverage at Red Hat Summit 2019 as we come to a near conclusion of our three days of wall to wall coverage for you here. All the keynotes, it's been and the guests we've had just a lot of fun and certainly an educational opportunity for Stu Menimen and myself and we're looking forward to our next couple of guests here. We have Khurshid Sohail, an application developer at UPS and Nish Jani, a senior application development manager at UPS. Gentlemen, thank you for joining us. We appreciate the time. [Developers] Thanks for having us. >> Presenter: Thank you. And so you have representation on the keynote stage of this morning. UPS did, talking about some of the changes underway there and your Red Hat relationship for those at home who work privy to that. Just to set the stage for in terms of what you're doing with Red Hat and what you're gonna be doing with them as they came up with a couple of releases this week. Nish, if you would? >> Sure. So as you know, UPS is delivering products and services to over 200 countries and from a scalability perspective, we deliver over 21,000,000 packages per day and during our peak season, it grows to over 30,000,000 packages a day, and last year we averaged 200,000,000 tracks a day on our tracking system and last peak we went to 335,000,000 tracks in a single day and that was all built on a new open-shift platform that we developed. >> Just a little bit of data. >> Yeah. >> All right. >> Yeah, you know I love when you talk to, you know, so many customers today who scale and it's like "oh, okay. How many transactions we have." It's like "oh, you talk logistics", you're like oh, okay. You talked a lot of numbers there but when you talk about the driver and how many officers they have and the amount of data that goes in. It's like, okay, how many supercomputers do you have? And you know, hundreds of PhDs solving this. Maybe we're just a little bit in tide, you know, the logistical pieces that go there and how, you know, I mean this is not, you know, a just "Okay, go do your route" as we have in the past. >> Yeah, so from a driver perspective, we've offered services to the drivers that take out the human search for needing to deliver packages. We have an orion system which tells the driver exactly where to go and where to deliver the packages and optimize the routes for them from a visibility perspective which is the products and services Khurshid and I support. The driver is able to do their jobs and deliver their status and deliver packages on time so for our customers, they see an updated status in real time. From a VI perspective, which is our visibility information business engine which was our new platform that we built last year, it was a long journey into the process, part of our digital transformation. We got into the transformation as a need for customers who wanted more out of their products and services that we offered today, and as far as being able to do faster market and provide visibility in a real-time sense. >> Presenter: Yeah. >> We always love when you hear some of these digital transformations. Like okay, you know, I think if UPS does logistics, those were pretty complicated before. >> Absolutely. So, like you needed a digital transformation. Maybe we could start with, you know, what were some of the objectives, what were we, you know, what was holding you back or limited before and you know, let's go to the after when you get through there. >> Sure. So before we were on a monolithic system, a legacy system and the costs per track were very expensive and your to drive new need we needed to redevelop ourselves and redesign ourselves and the way we did that was we transformed by moving away from our traditional waterfall models which typically took six months to deploy new services and we went to within weeks, and the way we did that was to develop agile methodologies and using open-shift we were able to develop and deploy applications more quickly and Khurshid can talk a little bit more about VI application and how it works. >> So pretty much what our goal was to get the old track system off the legacy model off into a containerized, on premise, cloud-based platform. So we successfully accomplished that, essentially 20 years worth of data we did in a year, so we're pretty proud of that, not to toot our own horn, but yeah. We got everything going with open-shift, and a couple of other Red Hat products like AMQ, JBoss, Fuse for AMQ and we also worked like Nish mentioned with the agile methodologies and principles so we were successfully able to create a type of environment for other applications that UPS see as a, you know, kind of a look up to so other applications can see what we've did and they can get themselves over in the same direction. >> Yeah, so can you bring us inside a little bit the organization. Was this a new team that came in? Was there a combination of the new and old? You know, the retraining. >> Yeah, so the team was formed out of some of the old members of the team that knew visibility inside and out. My team done the front-end of UPS.com's tracking application and we've brought in team members that were new and were able to develop the application in a short amount of time. So we've nearly formed a team, we've put together a parallel path from the old system to the new system then we transitioned over and it was seamless to the custom. >> You were talking about customer choice, we were speaking earlier before just about competition, so you have to be extremely responsive to customer needs and my choice is something that comes to my mind that you offer that gives great flexibility to a customer but tremendous complexity I would think to you because you have kind of like an X and a Y, you have a package, you've got a delivery point and now you throw the Z in with a time of day change or location change and to coordinate that so your efficiencies, your fuel efficiencies and route efficiencies are still maintained. And how do you do that in your environment? And whether that's something that Red Hat, is that something that is enabled by the technology that you're deploying of theirs? >> Sure, from a visibility perspective my choice product? have been very successful. We're able to deliver B to C packages to our individual customers or our consignees which help them choose where and when they want their package and also be able to see a delivery time. From a complexity perspective, sure. It adds a ton of complexity because we need to know what addresses to go to and what changes are done to the packages prior to them being delivered. From an open-shift perspective, that's partly going to be our digital transformation to transform that visibility and provide that information and bringing more products and services to those customers and lower latency of time. >> Okay, so containerization is something that's relatively prevalent for the audience here, but it's still relatively young in maturity. Just wondering as you rolled out the solutions, any learnings you had or any, you know, I don't want to say stumbling blocks, but you know, things that you learned along the way that maybe your peers should, could learn for. >> Yeah, I mean, I think you should say stumbling blocks 'cus as anybody knows, whenever you go through anything new there's opportunities to learn and there's monumental opportunities of failure and I think UPS knows and we've pride ourselves in failing fast, learning from our mistakes and getting to the next level. So like you mentioned with containerization and open-shift, the ability for us when we used to deploy every six months, now we get to deploy in two weeks to production and before that we could deploy in a matter of minutes so we could test all these tools and everything that open-shift offers gives us the ability to serve our business and give the most information to our customers. So open-shift and Red Hat have done a great job in helping us reach our maximum potential and we look to continue that partnership. >> Yeah, so was there anything, you know, in that speed to delivery and being more agile that, you know, "Oh jeez, security, "we should have pulled them in sooner." Or you know, so and so should have, but we forgot to include them in the original discussions. >> No, when we went through the transformation of moving the tracking application, we went through all the options and open-shift was just a natural partner, a natural fit. At the time we were going through a proof of concept with the product with another team and as the VI project came along it was just a natural fit to use containerization and use the speed of deployment, automated testing and pipelines in order to deploy this new application. (coughing) >> You used an interesting phrase there, for shit about failing fast and we've heard that a couple of times this week in different flavors. What about the lack of fear and failure and almost like that failure is not always a bad thing because it leads to improvement. But you have to have a certain amount of confidence underpinning that. So talk, I'm just curious from a company culture standpoint, what kind of confidence is there about that failing fast and how technology allows you to make up the ground that you might have lost by failure, especially in today's world, there's so much more capability and so much more at your disposal. >> Yeah, so I may, I think that benefits us and allows us to fail fast is management like Nish and our upper level management, they give us the opportunity to make these mistakes because they know we're going to learn from them and just talking about open-shift and like you said, when we fail, we have to make up that ground. When we make those mistakes the platform that we're on allows us to pivot from that and make it a success story right away. So we noticed that we were able to learn from mistakes quickly and with the help and support of management we were able to implement real-time solutions and deploy them right away. >> Yeah, in addition to that we're able to deploy in a short period of time so we know we're at a minimum two weeks away from the next deployment. So we could quickly restore functionality within minutes or within days if necessary. So, you know, previously we weren't able to do that, so fail fast didn't quite work in the waterfall method. >> So Nish, you know, the VI project has rolled out. What does that mean to your relationship to the business? And also ultimately, how has it impacted your ultimate customers? >> Sure, so from an external customer perspective, obviously we're able to, speed to market products and services faster to our customers and provide better visibility to the customers. From internally in the organization, we've significantly reduced our cost to serve and as we continue to transform on the VI platform using open-shift and partnering with Red Hat, we'll be able to transform other visibility products in the future and going forward we're able to take folks like Khurshid and develop them further and use our skill sets that we've learned and develop our people faster. >> So where do you want to jump in next? I mean, in your world Krashid, I would think that's probably one of the more exciting questions is, you know, what now? What next? Where are we going with this? In terms of your core business, you know, where's the efficiency gain that you'd like to see? Where's the customer service you'd like to improve? >> Yeah I mean, from a business perspective we're always looking to serve our business and bring products to platform that are gonna be useful to the customers. So what we currently have in VI today, we're looking to create more visibility products for our customers and from a technical standpoint, and we were at Red Hat Summit 2019, they've announced some crazy cool things. >> What's the craziest cool thing you've heard this week? >> We're looking forward to open-shift 4, we're looking forward to Cofcus Dreams, and Corcus which is really cool, and just operators, the list goes on and on. I could talk to you about it for days and days. We were here for three days, you got three more days ready? >> Sure. (laughing) Tape is cheap. (laughing) >> Yeah, we're looking forward to a lot of cool things that Red Hat's going to provide and we're gonna run with it. >> Yeah. We're looking forward to continued relationship with Red Hat and offering new products and services that can make our businesses run better. >> Like for example, if you could, if I were to say, a military build a rocket ship right now, you know, what's it gonna look like? What area of your business would you like to literally dabble in and say "Okay, I think this will work." It might right now, look to be a little bit futuristic or down the road, what scenario could you paint possibly to give us an idea about what you're thinking? >> So our next focus to business is to serve up the small and medium business, right? So we've been talking about the modulus product and serving residential addresses and serving residential folks but we want to start focusing on the small and medium businesses and offering the same services and capabilities so our next plateau, our next capability is to provide those services to the small and medium businesses so they can grow and partner with UPS. >> And I think, as Nish mentioned, with the utilizations from Cofcun actually bringing some of these technologies into our containers, bringing more security layers like there's a lot of great vendors here and partnering with them and bringing them into our services, it will open the doors for us a lot, and like Nish mentioned with my choice and small business, I think will allow them a better customer experience with partnering up with some of these new people. >> Presenter: You bet. Well thank you both. Thanks for being here and sharing your time, good to see you. Good keynote this morning as well, so please be sure to pass that along and we look forward to seeing you down the road. >> Developers: Thank you. >> Thank you both. Back with more coverage from Red Hat Summit 2019, you are watching theCUBE live from Boston. (electronic music)

>>Good morning, welcome to the cubes coverage of Qube con and cloud native con 21 live from Los Angeles. Lisa Martin, here with Dave Nicholson. David's great to be in person with other humans at this conference. Finally, I can't believe >>You're arms length away. It's unreal. >>I know, and they checked backs cards. So everybody's here is nice and safe. We're excited to welcome kingdom Barrett to the program, flux, maintainer and open source support engineer at we works. He came to him. Welcome to the program. >>Oh, thank you for having me on today. >>So let's talk about flux. This is a CNCF incubating project. I saw catalyze as adopt talk to us about flux and its evolution. >>Uh, so flex is, uh, uh, just got into its second version a while ago. We've been, uh, working on, um, uh, we're an incubating project and we're going towards graduation at this point. Um, flex has seen a great deal of adoption from, uh, infant cloud infrastructure vendors in particular, uh, like Microsoft and Amazon and VMware, all building products on, um, flux, uh, the latest version of flux. And, uh, we've heard, uh, from companies like Alibaba and state farm. We had a, uh, uh, conference, uh, at a co-hosted event earlier on Tuesday called get-ups con, uh, where we presented all about get ops, which is the technology, uh, guiding, uh, set of principles that underlies flux. And, uh, there are new adopters, um, all, all every day, including, uh, the department of defense, uh, who has a hundred thousand developers. Um, it's, it's, it's very successful project at this point, who are the >>Key users of flux flux? >>Excuse me. The key users of flux are, uh, probably, uh, application developers and infrastructure engineers, and platform support folks. So a pretty broad spectrum of people. >>And you've got some news at the event. >>Yeah, we actually, uh, we have a, uh, ecosystem event that's coming up, um, on October 20th, uh, it's free virtual event. Uh, folks can join us to hear from these companies. We have people from high level, uh, CTOs and GMs, uh, from companies like Microsoft, Amazon VMware, uh, we've worked D two IQ, um, that are, uh, going to be speaking, uh, about their, uh, products that you can buy from their cloud vendor, uh, that, uh, are based on flux. Uh, so, so that's a milestone for us. That's a major milestone. These are large vendors, um, major cloud vendors that have decided that they trust, uh, flux with their customers workloads. And it's, it's the way that they want to push get ups. Great >>Validation. Yeah. >>So give us an example, just digging in a little bit on flux and get ops. What are some of the things that flux either enforces or enables or validates? What, how would you describe the flux get ops relationship? >>So the first to get ops principles is declarative infrastructure and that's, uh, that's something that people who are using Kubernetes are already very familiar with. Um, flux has a basic itself, or, or I guess spawned, uh, maybe is a better way to say it. Uh, this, um, uh, whole get ops working group, that's just defined the principles. There's four of them in the formal definition. That's just been promoted to a 1.0 and, uh, the get ups working group, publish, publish this at, uh, open get-ups dot dev where you can read all four. And, um, it's great copy site. If you're not really familiar with get ops, you can, you can read all four, but, uh, the other, uh, the second one I would have mentioned is, uh, version storage is, is, uh, it's called get ups and get as a version store. So it's a good for, um, disaster recovery. >>Uh, and, uh, if you have an issue with a new release, if you're, uh, pushing changes frequently, that's, you know, more than likely you will have issues from time to time. Uh, you can roll back with, get ups because everything is version. Um, and, uh, you can do those releases rapidly because the deployment is automatic, um, and it's continuously reconciling. So those are the four principles of get ups. Uh, and they're, they're not exactly prescriptive. You don't have to adopt them all at once. You can pick and choose where you want to get started. Um, but that's what, uh, is underneath flux. >>How do you help customers pick and choose based on what are some of the key criteria that you would advise them on? >>We would advise them to try to follow all of those principles, because that's what you get out of the box with fluxes is a solution that does those things. But if there is one of those things that gets in a way, um, there's also the concept of a closed loop that is, um, sometimes debated as whether it should be part of the get ops principles or not. Um, that just means that, uh, when you use get-ups the only changes that go to your infrastructure are coming through get-ups. Uh, so you don't have someone coming in and using the back door. Um, it all goes through get, uh, w when you want to make a change to your cluster or your application, you push it to get the automation takes over from there and, um, and makes, uh, developers and platform engineers jobs a lot easier. And it makes it easier for them to collaborate with each other, >>Of course, productivity. You mentioned AWS, Microsoft, VMware, uh, all working with you to deliver, get ups to enterprise customers. Talk to me about some of the benefits in it for these big guys. I mean, that's great validation, but what's in it for AWS and VMware and Microsoft, for example, business outcome wise. >>Well, uh, one of the things that we've been promoting and since June is a flex has been, uh, uh, there's an API underneath, that's called the get ops toolkit. This is, uh, if you're building a platform for platforms like these cloud vendors are, um, we announced that fluxes APRs are officially stable. So that means that it's safe for them to build on top of, and they can, uh, go ahead and build things and not worry that we're going to pull the rug out from under them. So that's one of the major vendors, uh, one of the major, uh, uh, vendor benefits and, um, uh, we've, we've also added a recent improvement, uh, uh, called service side apply that, uh, will improve performance. Uh, we reduced the number of, um, API calls, but also for, for, uh, users, it makes things a lot easier because they don't have to write explicitly health checks on everything. Uh, it's possible for them to say, we'd like to see everything is healthy, and it's a one-line addition, that's it? >>So, you know, there's been a lot of discussion from a lot of different angles of the subject of security, uh, in this space. Um, how does this, how does this dovetail with that? A lot of discussion specifically about software supply chain security. Now this is more in the operations space. How do, how do those come together? Do you have any thoughts on security? >>Well, flux is built for security first. Um, there are a lot of products out there that, uh, will shell out to other tools and, and that's a potential vulnerability and flux does not do that. Uh, we've recently undergone a security audit, which we're waiting for the results and the report over, but this is part of our progress towards the CNCF graduated status. Um, and, uh, we've, we've liked what we've seen and preliminary results. Uh, we've, we've prepared for the security audit on knowing that it was coming and, uh, uh, flexes, uh, uh, designed for security first. Uh, you're able to verify that the commits that you're applying to your cluster are signed and actually come from a valid author who is, uh, permitted to make changes to the cluster and, uh, get ops itself is, is this, uh, model of operations by poll requests. So, um, you, you have an opportunity to make sure that your changes are, uh, appropriately reviewed before they get applied. >>Got it. So you had a session at coupon this week. Talk to me a little bit about that. What were like the top three takeaways, and maybe even share with us some of the feedback that you got from the audience? >>Um, so, uh, the session was about Jenkins and get ups or Jenkins and flux. And the, um, the main idea is that when you use flux, flux is a tool for delivery. So you've heard maybe of CIC, D C I N C D are separate influx. We consider these as two separate jobs that should not cross over. And, uh, when, when, uh, you do that. So the talk is about Jenkins and flux. Jenkins is a very popular CII solution and the messages, uh, you don't have to abandon, if you've made a large infrastructure investment in a CII solution, you don't have to abandon your Jenkins or your GitHub actions or, or whatever other CII solution you're using to build and test images. Uh, you can take it with you and adopt get ups. >>Um, so there's compatibility there and, and usability familiarity for the audience, the users. Yeah. What was some of the feedback that they provided to you? Um, were they surprised by that? Happy about that? >>Well, and talk to us a little bit fast paced. Uh, we'll put it in the advanced CIC D track. I covered a lot of ground in that talk, and I hope to go back and cover things in a little bit smaller steps. Um, I tried to show as many of the features of Fluxus as I could. Uh, and, and so one of the feedback that I got was actually, it was a little bit difficult to follow up as, so I'm a new presenter. Um, this is my first year we've worked. I've never presented at CubeCon before. Um, I'm really glad I got the opportunity to be here. This is a great, uh, opportunity to collaborate with other open source teams. And, um, that's, that's, uh, that's the takeaway from me? No. >>So you've got to give a shout out to, uh, to weave works. Absolutely. You know, any, any organization that realizes the benefit of having its folks participating in the community, realizing that it, it helps the community, it helps you, it helps them, you know, that's, that's what we love about, about all of this. >>Yeah. We're, uh, we're really excited to grow adoption for, um, Kubernetes and get ops together. So, >>So I've asked a few people this over the last couple of days, where do you think we are in the peak Kubernetes curve? Are we still just at the very beginning stages of this, of this as a, as a movement? >>Um, certainly we're, um, it's, it's, uh, for, for people who are here at CubeCon, I think we see that, you know, uh, a lot of companies are very successful with Kubernetes, but, um, I come from a university, it, uh, background and I haven't seen a lot of adoption, uh, in, in large enterprise, um, more conservative enterprises, at least in, in my personal experience. And I think that, uh, there is a lot for those places to gain, um, through, through, uh, adopting Kubernetes and get ups together. I think get ops is, uh, we'll provide them with the opportunity to, uh, experience Kubernetes in the best way possible. >>We've seen such acceleration in the last 18, 19 months of digital transformation for companies to survive, to pivot during COVID to survive, doubt to thrive. Do you see that influencing the adoption of Kubernetes and maybe different industries getting more comfortable with leveraging it as a platform? >>Sure. Um, a lot of companies see it as a cost center. And so if you can make it easier or possible to do, uh, operations with fewer people in the loop, um, that, that makes it a cost benefit for a lot of people, but also you need to keep people in the loop. You need to keep the people that you have included and, and be transparent about what infrastructure choices and changes you're making. So, uh, that's one of the things that get ups really helps with >>At transparency is key. One more question for you. Can you share a little bit before we wrap here about the project roadmap and some of the things that are coming down the pike? Yeah. >>So I mentioned a graduation. That's the immediate goal that we're working towards? Uh, most directly, uh, we have, um, grown our, uh, number of integrations pretty significantly. We have an operator how entry in red hat, open shift there's operator hub, where you can go and click to install flux. And that's great. Um, and, uh, we looked forward to, uh, making flux more compatible with more of the tools that you find in the CNCF umbrella. Um, that's, that's what our roadmap is for >>Increasing that compatibility. And one more time mentioned the event, October 20th, I believe he said, let folks know where they can go and find it on the web. Yeah. >>If you're interested in the get ups days.com, it's the get-ups one-stop shop and it's, uh, vendors like AWS and Microsoft and VMware detour IQ. And we've worked, we've all built a flux based solutions, um, for, uh, that are available for sale right now. So if you're, uh, trying to use get-ups and you have one of these vendors as your cloud vendor, um, it seems like a natural fit to try the solution that's out of the box. Uh, but if you need convincing, you get Upstate's dot com, you can go find out more about the event and, uh, we'll hope to see you there. >>I get upstairs.com kingdom. Thank you. You're joining Dave and me on the program, talking to us about flux. Congratulations on its evolution. We look forward to hearing more great things as the years unfold. >>Thank you so much for having me on our pleasure >>For Dave Nicholson. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the kid live from Los Angeles at CubeCon cloud native con 21 stick around Dave and I, and we'll be right back with our next guest.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting Cuban cloud brought to you by silicon angle. Welcome to the cubes event. Virtual event. Cuban Cloud. I'm John for your host. We're here talking to all the thought leaders getting all the stories around Cloud What's going on this year and next today, Tomorrow and the future. We gotta featured startup here. Jonah Clipper, who is the CEO and founder of Stack Hawks. Developing security software for developers to have them put security baked in from the beginning. Johnny, thanks for coming on and being featured. Start up here is part of our Cuban cloud. Thanks for joining. >>Thanks so much for having me, John. >>So one of our themes this year is obviously Cloud natives gone mainstream. The pandemic has shown that. You know, a lot of things have to be modern. Modern applications, the emerald all they talked about modern applications. Infrastructure is code. Reinvent, um is here. They're talking about the next gen enterprise. Their public cloud. Now you've got hybrid cloud. Now you've got multi cloud. But for developers, you just wanna be building security baked in and they don't care where the infrastructure is. So this is the big trend. Like to get your thoughts on that. But before we jump in, tell us about Stack Hawk What you guys do your founded in 2019. Tell us about your company and what Your mission is >>Awesome. Yeah, our mission is to put application security in the hands of software developers so that they can find and fix upset books before they deployed a production. And we do that through a dynamic application scanning capability. Uh, that's deployable via docker, so engineers can run it locally. They can run it in C I C. D. On every single PR or merge and find bugs in the process of delivering software rather than after it's been production. >>So everyone's talking about shift left, shift left for >>security. What does >>that mean? Uh, these days. And what if some of the hurdles that people are struggling with because all I hear is shift left shift left from, like I mean, what does What does that actually mean? Now, Can you take us through your >>view? Yes, and we use the phrase a lot, and I and I know it can feel a little confusing or overused. Probably. Um, When I think of shift left, I think of that Mobius that we all look at all of the time, Um, and how we deliver and, like, plan, write code, deliver software and then manage it. Monitor it right like that entire Dev ops workflow. And today, when we think about where security lives, it either is a blocker to deploying production. Or most commonly, it lives long after code has been deployed to production. And there's a security team constantly playing catch up, trying to ensure that the development team whose job is to deliver value to their customers quickly, right, deploy as fast as we can, as many great customer facing features, um there, then, looking at it months after software has been deployed and then hurrying and trying to assess where the bugs are. And, um, trying to get that information back to software developers so that they can fix those issues. Shifting left to me means software engineers are finding those bugs as their writing code or in the CIA CD pipeline long before code has been deployed to production. >>And so you guys attack that problem right there so they don't have to ship the code and then come back and fix it again. Or where we forgot what the hell is going on. That point in time some Q 18 gets it. Is that the kind of problem that that's out there? Is that the main pain point? >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean a lot of the way software, specifically software like ours and dynamic applications scanning works is a security team or a pen tester. Maybe, is assessing applications for security vulnerability these, um, veteran prod that's normally where these tools are run and they throw them back over the wall, you know, interrupting sprints and interrupting the developer workflow. So there's a ton of context switching, which is super expensive, and it's very disruptive to the business to not know about those issues before they're in prod. And they're also higher risk issues because they're in fraud s. So you have to be able to see a >>wrong flywheel. Basically, it's like you have a penetration test is okay. I want to do ship this app. Pen test comes back, okay? We gotta fix the bug, interrupts the cycle. They're not coding there in fire drill mode. And then it's a chaotic death spiral at that point, >>right? Or nothing gets done. God, how did >>you What was the vision? How did you get here? What? How did you start? The company's woke up one morning. Seven started a security company. And how did what was the journey? What got you here? >>Sure. Thanks. I've been building software for software engineers since 2010. So the first startup I worked for was very much about making it easy for software engineers to deploy and manage applications super efficiently on any cloud provider. And we did programmatic updates to those applications and could even move them from cloud to cloud. And so that was sort of cutting my teeth and technology and really understanding the developer experience. Then I was a VP of product at a company called Victor Ops. We were purchased by spunk in 2018. But that product was really about empowering software engineers to manage their own code in production. So instead of having a network operations center right who sat in front of screens and was waiting for something to go wrong and would then just end up dialing there, you know, just this middle man trying to dial to find the person who wrote the software so that they can fix it. We made that way more efficient and could just route issues to software engineers. And so that was a very dev ops focused company in terms of, um, improving meantime to know and meantime to resolve by putting up time in the hands of software engineers where it didn't used to live there before it lived in a more traditional operations type of role. But we deploy software way too quickly and way too frequently to production to assume that another human can just sit there and know how to fix it, because the problems aren't repeatable, right? So So I've been living in the space for a long time, and I would go to conferences and people would say, Well, I love for, you know, we have these digital transformation initiatives and I'm in the security team and I don't feel like I'm part of this. I don't know. I don't know how to insert myself in this process. And so I started doing a lot of research about, um, how we can shift this left. And I was actually doing some research about penetration testing at the time, Um, and found just a ton of opportunity, a ton of problems, right that exist with security and how we do it today. So I really think of this company as a Dev Ops first Company, and it just so happens to be that we're taking security, and we're making it, um, just part of the the application testing framework, right? We're testing for security bugs, just like we would test for any other kind of bucks. >>That's an awesome vision of other great great history there. And thanks for sharing that. I think one of the things that I think this ties into that we have been reporting aggressively on is the movement to Dev Stack Up, Dev, Ops Dev SEC Ops. And you know, just doing an interview with the guy who stood up space force and big space conversation and were essentially riffing on the idea that they have to get modern. It's government, but they got to do more commercial. They're using open source. But the key thing was everything. Software defined. And so, as you move into suffer defined, then they say we want security baked in from the beginning and This is the big kind of like sea level conversation. Bake it in from the beginning, but it's not that easy. And this is where I think it's interesting where you start to think, uh, Dev ops for security because security is broken. So this is a huge trend. It sounds easy to say it baked security in whether it's an i o T edge or multi cloud. There's >>a lot >>of work there. What should people understand when they hear that kind of platitude of? I just baked security and it's really easy. It's not. It's not trivial. What's your thoughts on >>that? It isn't trivial. And in my opinion, there aren't a lot of tools on the market that actually make that very easy. You know, there are some you've had sneak on this program and they're doing an excellent job, really speaking to the developer and being part of that modern software delivery workflow. Um, but because a lot of tools were built to run in production, it makes it really difficult to bake them in from the beginning. And so, you know, I think there are several goals here. One is you make the tooling work so that it works for the software engineer and their workflow. And and there's some different values that we have to consider when its foreign engineer versus when it's for a security person, right? Limit the noise, make it as easy as possible. Um, make sure that we only show the most critical things that are worth an engineer. Stopping what they're doing in terms of building business value and going back and fixing that bugs and then create a way to discuss in triage other issues later outside of the development. Workflow. So you really have to have a lot of empathy and understanding for how software is built and how software engineers behave, I think, in order to get this right. So it's not easy. Um, but we're here and other tools air here. Thio support companies in doing that. >>What's the competitive strategy for you guys going forward? Because there's a big sea change. Now I see an inflection point. Obviously, Cove it highlights. It's not the main reason, but Cloud native has proven it's now gone mainstream kubernetes. You're seeing the big movement there. You're seeing scale be a huge issue. Software defined operations are now being discussed. So I think it's It's a simple moment for this kind of solution. How are you guys going to compete? What's what's the winning strategy? How are you guys gonna compete to win? >>Yeah, so there's two pieces to that one is getting the technology right and making sure that it is a product that developers love. And we put a ton of effort into that because when a software engineer says, Hey, I'd love to use the security product, right? CSOs around the world are going to be like, Yes, please. Did a software engineer just ask me, You have the security product. Thank you, Right. We're here to make it so easy for them and get the tech right. And then the other piece, in terms of being competitive, is the business model. There were something like, I don't You would know better than me, but I think the data point I last saw was like 1300 venture backed security companies since 2012 focused on selling to see SOS and Fortune 2000 companies. It is a mess. It's so noisy, nobody can figure out what anybody actually does. What we have done is said no, we're going to take a modern business model approach to security. So you know, it's a SAS platform that makes it super easy for a software engineer or anybody on the team to try and buy the software. So 14 day trial. You don't have to talk to anybody if you don't want Thio Awesome support to make sure that people can get on boarded and with our on boarding flow, we've seen that our customers go from signing up to first successful scan of their platform or whatever app they chose to scan in a knave ridge of about 10 minutes. The fastest is eight, right? So it's about delivering value to our customers really quickly. And there aren't many companies insecurity on the market today. That do that? >>You know, you mentioned pen test earlier. I I hear that word. Nice shit. And, like, pen test penetration test, as it's called, um, Sock reports. I mean, these are things that are kind of like I got to do that again. I know these people are doing things that are gonna be automated, but one of the things that cloud native has proven as be killer app is integrations because when you build a modern app, it has to integrate with someone else. So there you need these kind of pen tests. You gotta have this kind of code review. And as code, um, is part of, say, a purpose built device where it's an I o T. Edge updates have toe happen. So you need mawr automation. You need more scale around both updating software to, ah, purpose built device or for integration. What's your thoughts in reaction to that? Because this is a riel software challenge from a customer standpoint, because there are too many tools out there and every see so that I talk to says, I just want to get rid of half the tools consolidate down around my clouds that I'm working through my environment and b'more developer oriented, not just purchasing stuff. So you have all this going on? What's your reaction to that? You got the you know, the integration and you've got the software updates on purpose built devices. >>Yeah, I mean, we I make a joke a little bit. That security land is like, you know, acronyms. Dio there are so many types of security that you could choose to implement. And they all have a home and different use cases that are certainly valuable toe organizations. Um, what we like to focus on and what we think is interesting and dynamic application scanning is because it's been hard toe automate dynamic application for especially for modern applications. I think a lot of companies have ignored theon pertuan ity Thio really invest in this capability and what's cool about dynamic. And you were mentioning pen testing. Is that because it's actively attacking your app? It when you get a successful test, it's like a It's like a successful negative test. It's that the test executed, which means that bug is present in your code. And so there's a lot less false positives than in other types of scanning or assessment technologies. Not to say there isn't a home for them. There's a lot of we could we could spend a whole hour kind of breaking down all the different types of bugs that the different tools confined. Um, but we think that if you want to get started developer first, you know there's a lot of great technologies. Pick a couple or one right pick stack hawk pick, sneak and just get started and put it in your developer workflow. So integrations are super important. Um, we have integrations with every C I C. D provider, making it easy to scan your code on every merge or release. And then we also have workflow integrations for software engineers associated with where they want to be doing work and how they want to be interrupted or told about an issue. So, you know, we're very early to market, but right out of the gate, we made sure that we had a slack integration so that scans are running. Or as we're finding new things, it's populating in a specific slack channel for those engineers who work on that part of the app and you're a integration right. If we find issues, we can quickly make tickets and route them and make sure that the right people are working on those issues. Eso That's how I think about sort of the integration piece and just getting started. It's like you can't tackle the whole like every accurate, um, at once like pick something that helps you get started and then continue to build out your program, as you have success. >>A lot of these tools can they get in the hands of developers, and then you kind of win their trust by having functionality. Uh, certainly a winning strategy we've seen. You know, Splunk, you mentioned where you worked for Data Dog and very other tools out there just get started easily. If it's good, it will be used. So I love that strategy. Question. I wanna ask you mentioned Dr earlier. Um, they got a real popular environment, but that speaks to the open source area. How do you see the role of open source playing with you guys? Is that gonna be part of your community outreach? Does the feed into the product? Could you share your vision on how stack hawks engaging and playing an open source? >>Yeah, absolutely. Um So when we started this company, my co founders and I, we sat down and said here, What are the problems? Okay, the world doesn't need a better scanner, right? If you walk the floor of, ah, security, uh, conference. It's like our tool finds a million things and someone else is. My tool finds a million and five things. Right, And that's how they're competing on value. It's really about making it easy to use and put in the pipeline. So we decided not to roll. Our own scanner were based on an open source capability called Zap the Set Attack Proxy. Uh, it is the most the world's most downloaded application scanner. And, uh, actually we just hired the founder of Zap to join the Stack Hawk team, and we're really excited to continue to invest in the open source community. There is a ton of opportunity to grow and sort of galvanize that community. And then the work that we do with our customers and the feedback that we get about the bugs we find if there, ah, false positive or this one's commonly risk accepted, we can go back to the community, which were already doing and saying, Hey, ditch this rule, Nobody likes it or we need to improve this test. Um, so it's a really nice relationship that we have, and we are looking forward to continuing to grow that >>great stuff. You guys are hot. Start of love. The software on security angle again def sec. Cox is gonna be It's gonna be really popular. Can you talk about some of the customer success is What's the What's the feedback from customers? Can you share some of the use cases that you guys are participating in where you're winning? You mentioned developers love it and try It can just give us a couple of use cases and examples. >>Yeah. Ah, few things. Um ah, lot of our customers are already selling on the notion. Like before we even went to G A right. They told all of their customers that they scan for security bugs with every single release. So in really critical, uh, industry is like fintech, right. It's really important that their customers trust that they're taking security seriously, which everybody says they dio. But they show it to their customers by saying here, every single deploy I can show you if there were any new security bugs released with that deploy. So that's really awesome. Other things We've heard our, uh, people being able to deploy really quickly thio the Salesforce marketplace, right? Like if they have toe have a scan to prove that that they can sell on Salesforce, they do that really rapidly. Eso all of that's going really well with our customers. >>How would I wanna How would I be a customer if I was interested in, um, using Stack Hawks say we have some software we wanna stand up, and, uh, it's super grade. And so Amazon Microsoft Marketplace Stairs Force They'll have requirements or say I want to do a deal with an integration they don't want. They want to make sure there's no nothing wrong with the code. This seems to be a common use case. How doe I if I was a customer, get involved or just download software? Um, what's the What's the procurement? What's the consumption side of it looked like, >>Yeah, you just go to Stockholm dot com and you create an account. If you'd like to get started that way so you can have a 14 day free trial. We have extremely extensive documentation, so it's really easy to get set up that way. You should have some familiarity. Or grab a software engineer who has familiarity with a couple of things. So one is how to use Docker, right? So Docker is, ah, deployment mechanism for the scanner. We do that so you can run it anywhere that you would like to, and we don't have to do things like pierce firewalls or other protective measures that you've instrumented on your production environment. You just run it, um, wherever you like in your system. So locally, C I c d So docker is an important thing to understand the way we configure our scanner is through a, um, a file. So if you are getting a scan today, either your security team is doing it or you have a pen tester doing it. Um, the whole like getting ready for that engagement takes a lot of time because the people who are running the tests don't know how the software was built. So the way we think about this is, just ask them. So you just fill out a Yamil file with parameters that tell the scanner what to dio tell it how to authenticate and not log out. Um, feed us an A p. I speak if you want, so weaken super efficiently, scan your app and you can be up and running really quickly, and then that's it. You can work with our team at any time if you need help, and then we have a really efficient procurement process >>in my experience some of the pen tests of firms out there, is it? It's like the house keeping seal of approval. You get it once and then you gotta go back again. Software change, new things come in. And it's like, Wait a minute, what's the new pen test? And then you to write a check or engaged to have enough meeting? I mean, this is the problem. I mean, too many meetings. Do you >>guys solve that problem? Do >>you solve that problem? >>We solve a piece of that problem. So I think you know, part of how I talk about our company is this idea that we live in a world where we deploy software every single day. Yet it seems reasonable that once a year or twice a year, we go get a pen test where human runs readily available, open source software on our product and gives us a like, quite literal. Pdf of issues on. It's like this is so intellectually dishonest, like we deploy all of the time. So here's the thing. Pen tests are important and everybody should do them. But that should not be the introduction to these issues that are also easy to automate and find in your system. So the way we think about how we work with pen testers is, um, run, stack hawk or zapped right in an automated fashion on your system, and then give that, give the configuration and give the most recent results to your pen tester and say, Go find the hard stuff. You shouldn't be cutting checks for $30,000 to a pen tester or something that you could easily meet in your flare up. Klein. You could write the checks for finding finding the hard stuff that's much more difficult to automate. >>I totally agree. Final question. Business model Once I get in, is it a service software and services? A monthly fee? How do you guys make money? >>Yep, it is software as a service, it is. A monthly fee were early to market. So I'm not going to pretend that we have perfectly cracked the pricing. Um, but the way that we think about this is this is a team product for software engineers and for, you know, informed constituents, right? You want a product person in the product. You want a security person in the product? Um, and we also want to incent you to scan your APS And the most modern fashion, which is scanning the smallest amount of http that lives in your app, like in a micro services architecture because it makes a lot easier, is easy to isolate the problems where they live and to fix those issues really quickly. So we bundle team and for a UPS and then we scale within, uh, companies as they add more team. So pen users. 10 APS is 3 99 a month. And as you add software engineers and more applications, we scale within your company that way. >>Awesome. So if you're successful, you pay more, but doesn't matter. You already succeeded, and that's the benefit of by As you go Great stuff. Final question. One more thing. Your vision of the future. What are the biggest challenges you see in the next 24 months? Plus beyond, um, that you're trying to attack? That's a preferred future that you see evolving. What's the vision? >>Yeah, you've touched on this a couple of times in this interview with uh being remote, and the way that we need to build software already has been modernizing, and I feel like every company has a digital transformation initiative, but it has toe happen faster. And along with that, we have to figure out how Thio protect and secure these Moderna Gail. The most important thing that we do the hearts and minds of our support engineers and make it really easy for them to use security capabilities and then continue to growth in the organization. And that's not an easy thing tied off. It's easy change, a different way of being security. But I think we have to get their, uh, in order to prepare the security, uh, in these rapidly deployed and developed applications that our customers expect. >>Awesome. Jodi Clippers, CEO and founder of Stack Hawk. Thank you for coming on. I really appreciate it. Thanks for spending the time featured Startup is part of our Cuban cloud. I'm Sean for your host with silicon angle to Cube. Thanks for watching

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel AWS and our community partners >>Telephone. Welcome back to the cubes. Virtual coverage of AWS reinvent 2020. We got the cube virtual because we're not in person. Got a great remote interview. Slummy Mannheim. Who's the CEO? Co founder, uh, exciting company. Drake J Frog. We went public this year. Congratulations, Cube alumni. Really a successor of White. The cloud exists in all the greatness and goodness of technology. It's not great to see you. Thanks for coming off of the special reinvent segment. >>Thank you. Thank you for having me, John. Great to see you again. >>So you guys have your mission continues. You're growing. We're here at reinvent. What's the story? Give us the quick news. Visa vee. Reinvent N A W s. >>Well, we had Ah, wonderful, uh, wonderful. Two months. Uh, since we went public on September 16, um, the company actually going past and they have UPS. Industry is going along us along. Excite us. So we're very excited about it. Um, great. Here. Great journey. You guys met us two years ago. So So you know the swamp. Well, then we're very excited being reinvent again, although virtually defined. >>You know, when you get a tailwind and you have a trend that your friend you guys had certainly had that with the developer first. That's the mantra. Everyone's talking about that now. You guys saw it early. The future of binary lifecycle management Dev Ops was the lifeblood of Dev ops. Now more is happening. You got automation. You got everything as a service which makes the developer equation even more powerful. Abstracting away complexities is even more needed. What's your vision on this? How do you guys continue the momentum in this now Highly accelerated cove it and soon to be post covert environment. >>Yeah. You know, John co vid actually accelerated what we already so years ago. And, uh, what we've seen is that the war demands a better way to update software. Look at us. Even this interview is being powered by software, right? I'm staring at the camera. I e used to sit in your studio and everything we do we all the food by by software. Our kids are at home learning with software. So obviously the demand for most software and most software updates is there, and Dev Ops is just the vehicle now. Once you understand that, you have to ask yourself, what is the primary asset that we really need to automate in order to become faster and secure and to provide a seamless software really slow? And what we identify 12 years ago is that it's the software packages, the binaries azi. We were named by the community, the binary people. >>Yeah, and and this is cool because not only it's just not a tool, it's a platform. You guys don't have a platform view. We talked about this in 2017. I remember The conversation like this is pretty compelling. This is Ah, go big or go home. You guys went big, for sure and successful. How do you take that platform approach to Dev Ops, where you have to enable success, you gotta have the enterprise features you got now hybrid multiple environment with the edge and other clouds air happening. How are you looking at this? >>Yes, So today it's it's quite clear in the in the enterprise falls zero. Everybody understand. Developers are the rainmakers. The communities is what powers innovation and what makes changes Look a talker. Look at problematic. Look at cloud native. It didn't started the enterprise. It starts with the developer. The developer mind this is, I think, the biggest democracy. And when we realized that 10 years ago, our philosophy was very, very clear, we would like the developers to have the freedom of choice. We want them to have ah, universal solution that supports all technologies, all software packages. Then we want them to have a hybrid solution. They prefer to one in the cloud also fostered. We will be, um, completely for it. And then not just in the cloud, but also multi cloud. So the full the full freedom of choice coined by the community, the Switzerland of develops. And, uh, starting as you mentioned, we started without a factory housing factories. The database of them are posting all of your software packages, all type of software packages. Then J. Fogg, X ray, our security vulnerability and license compliance tool that natively integrate without the factory. Then J Fogg distribution that push your software packages to the edge. We acquired two companies cloud much for the dashboard, did oversee all the pipeline and ship a bell, which is today, Jeff Pipelines, Our C I c d. And then we did you know, it was a long journey, but very food food for us, and we are very proud to build it together with the community. >>Well, not only did you guys succeed execution wise, the vision was phenomenal. The execution with the acquisitions, you really knocked down some great accomplishments. Eso Congratulations. You just laid that out, you know? Good call out there. I do want to ask you about this liquid software narrative. Can you take a minute toe? Unpack that a little bit? Because this is new. It seems to be something that is about the collective vision. How does this come together? Because you gotta do act to now. Act one is over. You went public. You did all the work. You built the company. You got a durable business. Got great customers. Happy community. What's this liquid software thing? >>Well, think about it. Liquid software might be our vision J. Fogg vision, but it's the world's mission. Now we want to have Netflix podcasting to our home without any software update disturbing us. We want to have our iPhone being updated automatically and seamlessly without a reboot. We want our Tesla, uh, to be updated without shutting down the model and schedule and update. And this is our mission. This is the big picture. How can we make sure that software is running smoothly from the developers Single tips all the way to the edge, no matter what the edges. Now, in order to achieve that, you have to be fast. You have to be automated, you have to be secure. And you have to be focused on the assets that moved from the developer, the hands off from the developers to the op that goes all the way to the devices, the machines or whatever edge. And these are the binaries. So the vision of flick with software is a software updates slowing, uh, into your pipe seamlessly all the way from from the creator to the consumer. >>You know, that's the Holy Grail. That's the Nirvana. That's the dream of edge. You know, if you think about the old days, I'm old enough to remember back in the eighties, when we used to build purpose, built everything full stack developer hardware, ground up everything supply chain hardware, software done. Now you got an edge that still needs to be purpose built at the same time, you have a half of a software operating model. This to me, seems to be a great liquid software moment where I need to have special is, um, at the device. But I need a root of trust. I need quality. I need to have software operations, but I can't go down, whether it's in space or in the data center. What's your reaction to that? >>I think that, you know, liquid software is already happening. Um, if I would ask you what's version off Facebook are using, I bet you don't know what both version of Zuma we currently using, uh, for this interview. We don't know because it's happening behind the scene. Liquid software is happening and and you're right. It was It was the one big back that we had to take care of everything. And now it's a different way. But still developers are taking care of all the gates, all the stages. Think about all the, um, all the gates that kind of shifted left like security. Now it's in the hands of the developers, test automation developers automation in order to be fast and to scale fast developers and the option the and the depth kind of come together. This is already a cliche, so I don't need to again talk about Deva. But if you do it right from the moment you build and secure your software, then you will be faster than your competitors and organization realized that if you are not fastened secure, you will fall behind and you will lose your competitive advantage. So what we see now is the liquid doctor already happened and there is much more responsibility and much more expectations from the development organization. >>Yeah, it's awesome. You want to security Big 10. By the way, I'm running 10 15.7 uh, Catalina And when you run your >>you have to go liquid. >>When you when you go liquid, can you just make sure that always lands on a odd number? We know the even numbers are unlucky, so don't give me the, you know, make it work for me. Keep it liquid. Um, you >>know, one. I'm sorry. One of the biggest campaign we ever had was a big sign that says, imagine there's no version. Imagine There's no version. Imagine that you don't care what the version is because actually the consumer. My mother, she doesn't want to know what zoom version she used when she picked with me. >>Hey, we got server list. I could go version list, too. I mean, who doesn't want a version of this system? Look, this is critical. I love the hands on Hands off mindset. This is about non disruptive operations. You're starting to get into that kind of liquidity. What's next? What do you guys hearing at reinvent this year? Obviously, is virtual. So there's a lot of different touch points of over this three weeks. We got a lot of cube coverage. We're hearing speed, agility, agility has been around for a while. We're hearing speed is critical right now. It's the number one thing we're hearing across environments. That's the number one feature that we're hearing. What are you hearing? >>Yeah, well, John first, you know, I'm grateful as the CEO to have ah team off almost 700 employees worldwide doing this with the community, by the community and for the community. And we are very, very honored to have, um, over 6000 customers the majority. The vast majority of the Fortune 100 already powered by J Foe, the biggest bank, the biggest retail, the biggest tech company and what we hear from them. And I think that you know, a mental that stay humbled and listen to the community learns a lot. And the wisdom of the community is telling us the following number one double down on security because we still in the process in the transition of moving the responsibility to the developers. Even the system off the organization is still freaking out from from releases seven times a day. The second thing that we hear is that if software packages are the primary asset, then we want to have the freedom of choice. We want to integrate with whatever ecosystems I want to use Docker and dotnet and Java and pipe I and N P m. At the same time in the same resource. So consolidate consolidate this all for me And the last thing we hear is we We are also best of breed, But some some packages must come together and this is where the end to end solution coming from J. Prague is vital for the organization. You get the repository, the security, the distribution and the C I c d from the same vandal. Now take this and push the pedal even more, Uh, toe to the end. And you will see that the deployment environment that also got a bit more complex requires hybrid solution and multi cloud solution. There is no Fortune 100 company. It will just go with one cloud or with one solution. And when you come with unauthentic hybrid solution, multi cloud, that's a real This is a fanatic freedom of choice and the fanatic democracy that we give to developers. >>That's a great mission. Freedom of choice. No lock in lock ins. The new the new lock in his choice. New lock in his performance and scale. Slow me. Thank you for coming on The Cube behind CEO and co founder of Jay Frog. Mad props and congratulations to you and your team and swamp for great success having the right product at the right time. Developer first. Great stuff. Congratulations. Thanks for coming. >>Thank you very much and made the frog be with us and made this pandemic Thanks. Thank you very >>much. I want to get back to real life. I miss life. Thank you for coming. I miss it. This is the Cube. Virtual. We are cute. Virtual. Thanks for watching reinvent coverage. 2020. I'm John for your host. Yeah.

>>from around the globe. It's >>the Cube with digital coverage of Dev >>Ops Virtual Forum Brought to You by Broadcom. Welcome to Broadcom, Step Ups, Virtual Forum I and Lisa Martin and I'm joined by another Martin very socially. Distance from me all the way. Coming from Birmingham, England, is Glynn Martin, head of Q. A transformation at BT Glenn. It's great to have you on the program. >>Thank you, Lisa. I'm looking forward, Toa. >>As we said before, we went live to Martin's for the price of one in one segment. So this is gonna be an interesting segment, Guesses. What we're gonna do is Glen's gonna give us a really kind of deep inside out view of Dev ops. From an evolution perspective, Soglo's Let's start transformation is at the heart of what you dio. It's obviously been a very transformative year. How have the events of this year affected the transformation that you are so responsible for driving? >>Yeah. Thank you, Leigh. So I mean, yeah, it has been a difficult year Bond, although working for BT, which is ah, global telecommunications company. Relatively resilient, I suppose, as an industry through covert, it obviously still has been affected and has got its challenges on bond. If anything is actually caused us to accelerate of our transformation journey, you know, we had to do some great things during this time around. You know, in the UK for our emergency and health workers give them unlimited data and for vulnerable people to support them and that spent that we've had to deliver changes quickly. Um, but what? We want to be able to do it, deliver those kind of changes quickly, but sustainably for everything that we do, not just because there's an emergency eso we were already on the kind of journey to by John, but ever so ever more important now that we are what we're able to do, those that kind of work, do it more quickly on. But it works because the implications of it not working is could be terrible in terms of, you know, we've been supporting testing centers, new hospitals to treat covert patients, so we need to get it right and therefore the coverage of what we do, the quality of what we do and how quickly we do. It really has taken on a new scowling what was already a very competitive market within the telco industry within the UK. Um, you know, what I would say is that you know, we are under pressure to deliver more value, but we have small cost challenges. We have to obviously deal with the fact that you know, Cove in 19 has hit most industries kind of revenues and profits. So we've got this kind of paradox between having less cost, but they're having to deliver more value quicker on bond, you know, to higher quality. So, yeah, certainly the finances is on our minds. And that's why we need flexible models, cost models that allow us to kind of do growth. But we get that growth by showing that we're delivering value, especially in, you know, these times when there are financial challenges on companies. >>So one of the things that I want to ask you about again looking at, develops from the inside out on the evolution that you've seen you talked about the speed of things really accelerating in this last nine months or so. When we think Dev ops, we think speed. But one of the things I love to get your perspective on we've talked about in a number of the segments that we've done for this event is cultural change. What are some of the things that scene there as as needing to get, as you said, get things right but done so quickly to support essential businesses, essential workers? How have you seen that cultural shift? >>Yeah, I think you know, before, you know, test test team saw themselves of this part of the software delivery cycle. Andi, actually, now, really, our customers were expecting their quality and to deliver for our customers what they want. Quality has to be ingrained throughout the life cycle. Obviously that you know, there's lots of buzzwords like shift left. How do you do? Shift left testing. But for me, that's really instilling quality and given capabilities shared capabilities throughout the life cycle. That Dr you know, Dr Automation drive improvements. I always say that you know, you're only as good as your lowest common denominator on one thing that we're finding on our Dev Ops Journey Waas that we were you know, we would be trying thio do certain things quicker and had automated build automated tests. But if we were taking weeks to create test scripts or we were taking weeks to manly craft data, and even then when we had taken so long to do it that the coverage was quite poor and that led to lots of defects later in the lifecycle or even in in our production environment, we just couldn't afford to do that. And actually, you know, focusing on continuous testing over the last 9 to 12 months has really given us the ability Thio delivered quickly across the the whole life cycle and therefore actually go from doing a kind of semi agile kind of thing where we did you use the stories we did a few of the kind of, you know, as our ceremonies. But we weren't really deploying any quicker into production because, you know, our stakeholders were scared that we didn't have the same control that we had when we had more water for releases. And, you know, when way didn't think ourselves. So we've done a lot of work on every aspect, especially from a testing point of view, every aspect of every activity, rather than just looking at automated test, you know, whether it is actually creating the test in the first place, Whether it's doing security testing earlier in the light and performance testing. Learn the life cycle, etcetera. So, yeah, it Z It's been a riel key thing that for for C T for us to drive, develops, >>talk to me a little bit about your team. What are some of the shifts in terms of expectations that you're experiencing and how your team interacts with the internal folks from pipeline through life cycle? >>Yeah, we've done a lot of work on this, you know, there's a thing. I think people were pretty quiet. Customer experience. Gap. It reminds me of a cart, a Gilbert cartoon where, you know, we start with the requirements here on Do you know, we almost like a Chinese whisper effects and what we deliver eyes completely, completely different. So we think the testing team or the the delivery team, you know, you know, you think they've done a great job. This is what it said in the acceptance criteria, but then our customers the same Well, actually, that's not working. This isn't working, you know, on there's this kind of gap Way had a great launched this year of actual Requirement Society, one of the board common tools Onda that for the first time in in since I remember actually working within B. T, I had customers saying to may, Wow, you know, we want more of this. We want more projects, um, to have a actual requirements design on it because it allowed us to actually work with the business collaboratively. I mean, we talk about collaboration, but how do you actually, you know, do that have something that both the business on technical people can understand? And we've actually been working with the business using at our requirement. Designer Thio, you know, really look about what the requirements are. Tease out requirements to the hadn't even thought off and making sure that we've got high levels of test coverage. And so what we actually deliver at the end of it, not only have you been able Thio generate test more quickly, but we've got much higher test coverage and also can more smartly, you're using the kind of AI within the tour and with some of the other kind of pipeline tools actually deliver to choose the right tests on the bar, still actually doing a risk based testing approach. So that's been a great launched this year, but just the start of many kind of things that we're >>doing. But what I hear in that Glenn is a lot of positives that have come out of a very challenging situation. Uh, talk to me about it and I like that perspective. This is a very challenging time for everybody in the world, but it sounds like from a collaboration, perspective is you're right. We talk about that a lot critical with Dev Ops. But those challenges there you guys were able to overcome those pretty quickly. What other challenges did you face and figure out quickly enough to be able to pit it so fast? >>I mean, you talked about culture. I mean, you know, Bt is like most come countries companies. So, um, is very siloed. You know, we're still trying to work to become closer as a company. So I think there's a lot of challenges around. How do you integrate with other tools? How do you integrate with you know, the various different technologies and bt we have 58 different whitey stacks? That's not systems that stacks all of those stacks of can have, you know, hundreds of systems on we're trying to. We're gonna drive at the moment a simplified program where we're trying Thio, you know, reduce that number 2 14 stacks. And even then they'll be complexity behind the scenes that that we will be challenged. Maurin Mawr As we go forward, how do you actually hired that to our users on as an I T organization? How do we make ourselves Lena so that even when we you know, we've still got some of that legacy and we'll never fully get rid of it on that's the kind of trade off that we have to make. How do we actually deal with that and and hide that for my users a say and and and drive those programs so we can actually accelerate change. So we take, you know, reduce that kind of waste, and that kind of legacy costs out of our business. You know, the other thing is, well, beating. And I'm sure you know telecoms probably no difference to insurance or finance we've got You know, when you take the number of products that we do and then you combine them, the permutations are tens and hundreds of thousands of products. So we as a business to trying to simplify. We are trying Thio do that in a natural way and haven't trying to do agile in the proper way, you know, and really actually work it paste really deliver value. So I think what we're looking Maura, Maura, at the moment is actually, um is more value focus? Before we used to deliver changes, sometimes into production, someone had a great idea or it was a great idea nine months ago or 12 months ago. But actually, then we end up deploying it. And then we look at the the the users, you know, the usage of that product of that application or whatever it is on. It's not being used for six months, so we're getting much we haven't got, you know, because of the last 12 months, we certainly haven't got room for that kind of waste and you know, the for not really understanding the value of changes that we we are doing. So I think that's the most important thing at the moment is really taken that waste out. You know, there's lots of focus on things like flow management. What bits of the our process are actually taking too long, and we've We've started on that journey, but we've got a hell of a long way to go, you know, But that that involves looking every aspect off the kind of software delivery cycle. >>What are some? Because that that going from, what, 58 i t stocks down to 14 or whatever it's going to be go simplifying is sounds magical. Took everybody. It's a big challenge. What are some of the core technology capabilities that you see really as kind of essential for enabling that with this new way that you're working? >>Yeah. I mean, I think we've started on a continuous testing journey, and I think that's just the start. I mean, that's really, as I say, looking at every aspect off, you know, from a Q, a point of view. It's every aspect of what we dio. But it's also looking at, you know, we're starting to branch into more like a AI ops and, you know, really, the full life cycle on. But, you know, that's just a stepping stone onto, you know, I think oughta Nomics is the way forward, right? You know all of this kind of stuff that happens um, you know, monitoring, you know, monitoring systems, what's happening in production had to be feed that back. How do you get to a point where actually we think about a change on then suddenly it's in production safely. Or if it's not going to safety, it's automatically backing out. So, you know, it's a very, very long journey. But if we want Thio, you know, in a world where the pace is ever increasing the demands of the team and you know, with the pressures on at the moment where with we're being asked to do things, you know more efficiently Ondas leaving as possible. We need to be, you know, thinking about every part of the process. And how do we put the kind of stepping stones in players to lead us to a more automated kind of, you know, their future? >>Do you feel that that plant outcomes are starting to align with what's delivered? Given this massive shift that you're experiencing, >>I think it's starting to, and I think you know, Azzawi. Look at more of a value based approach on. Do you know a Zeiss? A princess was a kind of flight management. I think that's that will become ever evermore important. So I think it's starting to people. Certainly realized that, you know, people teams need to work together. You know, the kind of the cousin between business and ICT, especially as we go Teoh Mawr kind of sad space solutions, low cold solutions. You know there's not such a gap anymore. Actually, some of our business partners expects to be much more tech savvy. Eso I think you know, this is what we have to kind of appreciate. What is I ts role? How do we give the capabilities become more for centers of excellence rather than actually doing Mount amount of work And for May and from a testing point of view, you know, amount, amount of testing, actually, how do we automate that? How do we actually generate that instead of created? I think that's the kind of challenge going forward. >>What are some? As we look forward, what are some of the things that you would like to see implemented or deployed in the next say, 6 to 12 months as we hopefully round a corner with this pandemic? >>Yeah, I think you know, certainly for for where we are as a company from a Q A perspective. We are. Yeah, there's certain bits that we do Well, you know, we've started creating continuous delivery. A day evokes pipelines. Um, there's still manual aspects of that. So, you know, certainly for May I I've challenged my team with saying, How do we do an automated journey? So if I, you know, I put a requirement injera or value whoever it is, that's why. Then click a button on bond, you know, with either zero touch of one touch, then put that into production and have confidence that that has been done safely on that it works. And what happens if it doesn't work? So you know, that's that's the next in the next few months, that's what our concentration is about. But it's also about decision making, you know, how do we actually understand those value judgements? And I think there's lots of the things Dev ops, ai ops, kind of always that aspects of business operations. I think it's about having the information in one place to make those kind of decisions. How does it all tied together, as I say, even still with kind of Dev ops, we've still got elements within my company where we've got lots of different organizations doing some doing similar kind of things but the walking of working in silos Still. So I think, having a eye ops Aziz becomes more and more to the fore as we go to the cloud. And that's what we need to. You know, we're still very early on in our cloud journey, you know. So we need to make sure the technologies work with Cloud as well as you kind of legacy systems. But it's about bringing that all together and having a full visible pipeline. Everybody can see and make decisions against >>you said the word confidence, which jumped out at me right away. Because absolutely, you've gotta have be able to have confidence in what your team is delivering and how it's impacting the business and those customers. Last question for you is how would you advise your peers in a similar situation to leverage technology automation, for example, dev ops to be able to gain the confidence that they're making the right decisions for their business? >>Yeah, I mean, I think the the approach that we've taken actually is not started with technology we've actually taken human centered design a za core principle of what we dio within the i t part of BT. So by using humans tend to design. That means we talked to our customers. We understand their pain points, we map out their current processes on. But when we mapped out, those processes also understand their aspirations as well, you know, Where do they want to be in six months? You know, Do they want to be more agile and you know, or do they want Teoh? Is this apart their business that they want thio run better? We have to Then look at why that's not running well and then see what solutions are out there. We've been lucky that, you know, with our partnership with Broadcom within the P l. A. A lot of the tortures and the P l. A have directly answered some of the businesses problems. But I think by having those conversations and actually engaging with the business, um, you know, especially if the business hold the purse strings, which is you know, in some companies, including as they do there is that kind of, you know, almost by understanding their their pain points and then saying This is how we can solve your problem We've tended to be much more successful than trying Thio impose something and say We're here to technology that they don't quite understand doesn't really understand how it could have resonate with their problems. So I think that's the heart of it is really about, you know, getting looking at the data, looking at the processes, looking at where the kind of waste is on. Then actually then looking at the right solutions. And as I say, continuous testing is a massive for us. We've also got a good relationship with capitals looking at visual ai on. Actually, there's a common theme through that, and I mean, AI is becoming more and more prevalent, and I know yeah, sometimes what is A I and people have kind of the semantics of it. Is it true, ai or not? But yes, certainly, you know, AI and machine learning is becoming more and more prevalent in the way that we work, and it's allowing us to be much more effective, the quicker and what we do on being more accurate. You know, whether it's finding defects, running the right tests or, you know, being able to anticipate problems before they're happening in a production environment. >>Welcome. Thank you so much for giving us this sort of insight. Outlook at Dev Ops, sharing the successes that you're having taking those challenges, converting them toe opportunities and forgiving folks who might be in your shoes or maybe slightly behind advice. I'm sure they appreciate it. We appreciate your time. >>It's been an absolute pleasure, Really. Thank you for inviting me of Extremely enjoyed it. So thank you ever so much. >>Excellent. Me too. I've learned a lot for Glynn Martin and Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube?

(gentle music) >> From the cube studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a Cube conversation. >> With Snowflake's, enormously successful IPO, it's clear that data warehousing in the cloud has come of age and a few companies know more about data and analytics than Google. Hi, I'm Paul Gillen. This is a cube conversation. And today we're going to talk about data warehousing and data analytics in the cloud. Google BigQuery, of course, is a popular, fully managed server less data warehouse that enables rapid SQL queries and interactive analysis of massive data sets. This summer, Google previewed BigQuery Omni, which essentially brings the capabilities of BigQuery to additional platforms including Amazon web services and soon Microsoft Azure. It's all part of Google's multicloud strategy. No one knows more about this strategy than Debanjan Saha, General Manager and Vice President of engineering for data analytics and Google cloud. And he joins me today. Debanjan, thanks so much for joining me. >> Paul, nice to meet you and thank you for having me today. >> So it's clear the data warehousing is now part of many enterprise data strategies. How has the rise of cloud change the way organizations are using data science in your view? >> Well, I mean, you know, the cloud definitely is a big enabler of data warehousing and data science, as you mentioned. I mean, it has enabled things that people couldn't do on-prem, for example, if you think about data science, the key ingredient of data science, before you can start anything is access to data and you need massive amount of data in order to build the right model that you want to use. And this was a big problem on-prem because people are always thinking about what data to keep, what to discard. That's not an issue in cloud. You can keep as much of data as you want, and that has been a big boon for data science. And it's not only your data, you can also have access to other data your, for example, your partner's data, public data sets and many other things that people have access to right? That's number one, number two of course, it's a very compute intensive operation and you know, large enterprises of course can afford them build a large data center and bring in lots of tens of thousands of CPU codes, GPU codes, TPU codes whatever have you, but it is difficult especially for smaller enterprises to have access to that amount of computing power which is very very important for data science. Cloud makes it easy. I mean, you know, it has in many ways democratize the use of data science and not only the big enterprises everyone can take advantage of the power of the computing power that various different cloud vendors make it available on their platform. And the third, not to overlook that, cloud also makes it available to customers and users, lots of various different data science platform, for example, Google's own TensorFlow and you have many other platforms Spark being one example of that, right? Both a cloud native platform as well as open source platforms, which is very very useful for people using data science and managed to open source, Spark also makes it very very affordable. And all of these things have contributed to massive boon in data science in the cloud and from my perspective. >> Now, of course we've seen over the last seven months a rush to the cloud triggered by the COVID-19 pandemic. How has that played out in the analytics field? Do you see any longterm changes to, to the landscape? The way customers are using analytics as a result of what's happened these last seven months? >> You know, I think as you know about kind of a digitization of our business is happening over a long period of time, right? And people are using AIML analytics in increasing numbers. What I've seen because of COVID-19 that trend has accelerated both in terms of people moving to cloud, and in terms of they're using advanced analytics and AIML and they have to do that, right? Pretty much every business is kind of leaning heavily on their data infrastructure in order to gain insight of what's coming next. A lot of the models that people are used to, is no longer valid things are changing very very rapidly right? So in order to survive and thrive people have to lean on data, lean on analytics to figure out what's coming around the corner. And that trend in my view is only going to accelerate. It's not going to go the other way round. >> One of the problems with cloud databases, We often hear complaints about is that there's so many of them. Do you see any resolution to that proliferation? >> Well, you know, I do think a one size does not fit all right. So it is important to have choice. It's important to have specialization. And that's why you see a lot of cloud databases. I don't think the number of cloud databases is going to go down. What I do expect to happen. People are going to use interoperable data formats. They are going to use open API so that it's very, very portable as people want to move from one database to another. The way I think the convergence is going to come is two ways, One, you know, a lot of databases, for example, use Federation. If you look at BigQuery, for example, you can start with BigQuery, but with BigQuery, you can have also access to data in other databases, not only in GCP or Google cloud but also in AWS with BigQuery Omni, for example, right? So that provides a layer of Federation, which kind of create convergence with respect, to weighing various different data assets people may have. I have also seen with, for example, with Looker, you know creation of enterprise wide data models and data API is gives people a platform so that they can build their custom data app and data solutions on top up and even from data API. Those I believe are going to be the points of convergence. I think data is probably going to be in different databases because different databases do different things well, that does not mean people wouldn't have access to all their data through one API or one set of models. >> Well, since we're on the subject of BigQuery. Now this summer, you introduced BigQuery Omni which is a database data warehouse, essentially a version of BigQuery that can query data in other cloud platforms, what, what is the strategy there? And what is the customer reaction been so far? >> Well, I mean, you know as you probably have seen talking to customers more than 80% of the customers that we talk to use multiple clouds and that trend is probably not going to change. I mean, it happens for various different reasons sometime because of compliance sometimes because they want to have different tools and different platform sometime because of M and a, we are a big believer of multi-cloud strategy and that's what we are trying to do with BigQuery Omni. We do realize people have choices. Customers will have their data in various different places and we will take our analytics wherever the data is. So customers won't have to worry about moving data from one place to another., and that's what we are trying to do with BigQuery Omni you know, going to see, you know for example, with Anthos, we have created a platform over which you can build this video as different data stacks and applications, which spans multiple clouds. I believe we are going to see more of that. And BigQuery Omni is just the beginning. >> And how have your customers reacted to that announcement. >> Oh deep! They reacted very, very positively. This is the first time they have a major cloud vendor offering a fully managed server less data warehouse platform on multiple clouds. And as I mentioned, I mean we have many customers who have some of their data assets for example, in GCP, they really love BigQuery. And they also have for example, applications running on AWS and Azure. And today the only option they have is to essentially shuttle their data between various different clouds in order to gain insight across the collective pool of data sets that they have, with BigQuery, Omni, they all tended to do that. They can keep their data wherever it is. They can still join across that data and get insights irrespective of which cloud their data is. >> You recently wrote on Forbes about the shortage of data scientists and the need to make data analytics more accessible to the average business user. What is Google doing in that respect? >> So we strongly, I mean, you know one of our goals is to make the data and insight from data available to everybody in the business right? That is the way you can democratize the use of analytics and AIML. And you know, one way to do that is to teach everybody R or Python or some specific tools but that's going to take a long time. So our approach is make the power of data analytics and AI AML available to our users, no matter what tools they're comfortable with. So for example, if you look at a B Q ML BigQuery ML, we have made it possible for our users who like SQL very much to use the power of ML without having to learn anything else or without having to move their data anywhere else. We have a lot of business users for example, who prefer X prefer spreadsheets and, you know, we've connected sheets. We have made the spreadsheet interface available on top of BigQuery, and they can use the power of BigQuery without having to learn anything else. Better yet we recently launched a BigQuery Q and A. And what Q and A allows you to do is to use natural language on top of big query data, right? So the goal, I mean, if you can do that that I think is the Nevada where people, anyone for example, somebody working in a call center talking to a customer can use a simple query to figure out what's going on with the bill, for example, right? And we believe that if we can democratize the use of data, insight and analytics that not only going to accelerate the digital transformation of the businesses, it's also going to grow consumption. And that's good for both the users, as well as business. >> Now you bought Looker last year, what would you say is different about the way Google is coming out the data analytics market from the way other cloud vendors are doing it. >> So Looker is a great addition to already strong portfolio of products that we have but you know, a lot of people think about Looker as a business intelligence platform. It's actually much more than that. What is unique about Looker is the semantic model that Looker can build on top of data assets, govern semantic model Looker can build on top of data assets, which may be in BigQuery maybe in cloud SQL maybe, you know, in other cloud for example, in Redshift or SQL data warehouse. And once you have the data model, you can create a data API and essentially an ID or integrated development environment on top of which you can build your custom workflows. You can build your custom dashboard you can build your custom data application. And that is, I think, where we are moving. I don't think people want the old dashboards anymore. They want their data experience to be immersive within the workflow and within the context in which they are using the data. And that's where I see Lot of customers are now using the power of Looker and BigQuery and other platform that we have and building this custom data apps. And what again, like BigQuery, Looker is also multi-platform it supports multiple data warehouses and databases and that kind of aligns very well with our philosophy of having an open platform that is multicloud as well as hybrid. >> Certainly, with Anthos and with BigQuery Omni, you demonstrated your commitment on P cloud, but not all cloud vendors have an interest in being multicloud. Do you see any, any change that standoff and are you really in a position to influence it? >> Absolutely. I think more than us it's a customer who is going to influence that, right? And almost every customer I talk to, they don't want to be in a walled garden. They want to be an open platform where they have the choice they have the flexibility and I believe these customers are going to push essentially the adoption of platforms, which are open and multicloud. And, you know, I believe over time the successful platforms have to be open platform. And the closed platform if you look at history has never been very successful, right? And you know, I sincerely think that we are on the right path and we are on the side of customers in this philosophy. >> Final question. What's your most important priority right now? >> You know, I wake up everyday thinking about how can you make our customer successful? And the best way to make our customer successful is to make sure that they can get business outcome out of the data that they have. And that's what we are trying to do. We want to accelerate time to value to data, you know, so that people can keep their data in a governed way. They can gain insight by using the tools that we can provide them. A lot of them, we have used internally for many years and those tools are now available to our customers. We also believe we need to democratize the use of analytics and AIML. And that's why we are trying to give customers tools where they don't have to learn a lot of new things and new skills in order to use them. And if we can do them successfully I think we are going to help our customers get more value out of their data and create businesses which can use that value. I'll give you a couple of quick examples. I mean, for example, if you look at Home Depot, they use our platform to improve the predictability of the inventory by two X. If you look at, for example HSBC, they have been able to use our platform to detect financial fraud 10 X faster. If you look at, for example Juan Perez, who's the CIO of UPS, they have used our AIML and analytics to do better logistics and route planning. And they have been able to save 10 million gallons of fuel every year which amounts to 400 million in cost savings. Those are the kind of business outcome we would like to drive with the power of our platform. >> Powerful stuff, democratize data multicloud data in any cloud who can argue with that. Debanjan Saha, General Manager and Vice President of engineering for data analytics at Google cloud. Thanks so much for joining me today. >> Paul, thank you thank you for inviting me. >> I'm Paul Gillen. This has been a cube conversation. >> Debanjan: Thank you. (soft music)

(upbeat music) >> From the Cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is the CUBE Conversation. >> Hey everybody this is Dave Vellante and welcome to the special CUBE Conversation. I'm really excited to have Keith Bradley here he's the Vice President of IT at Nature Fresh Farms. Keith good to see you. >> Hey, good to see you too there Dave. >> All right, first of all I got to thank you for sending me these awesome veggies. I got these wonderful peppers. I got red, orange. I got the yellow. I got to tell you Keith these tomatoes almost didn't make it. It's my last one on the vine. >> (Laughs) >> These guys are like candy. It's amazing. >> Yap. They are the tasty thing. >> Wonderful. >> You know what, I'll probably just join you right here now too. I'll have one right here right now and I'll join you right now. >> My kids love these but I'm not bringing them home. And then I got these other grape tomatoes and then I've got these mini pepper poppers that are so sweet. You know which one I'm talking about here. And then we've got the tomatoes on the vine. I mean, it's just unbelievable that you guys are able to do this in a greenhouse. Big cukes, little cukes. Wow. Thank you so much for sending these. Delicious. Really appreciate it. >> Yeah. Well thank you for having them. It's a great little tree and it's something that I know you're going to enjoy. And I love for everybody to have it and there's not a person I haven't seen that hasn't enjoyed our tomatoes and peppers. >> Now tell me more about Nature Fresh Farms. Let's talk about your business I want to spend some time on that. We've got IoT, we got a data lifecycle. All kinds of cool stuff, scanners. Paint a picture for us. >> I like to even go... If you don't mind. I like to even go back to where our roots actually came from. So Peter Quiring, our owner actually was a builder by nature and he was actually back in the year 2000 really wanted to get into the greenhouse because he was a manufacturer. And he built our phase one facility back in 2000 under the concept that he said, "there's computers out there." And Peter will be the first one to say, "I don't know how to use them, "but I know that it can do a lot for us." So even back in 2000, we were starting to experiment with using the computers back then to control the greenhouse, to do much of the functionality. Then he bought it under the concept as our sister company, South Essex Fabricating that he would sell the greenhouse turnkey to somebody else. Well, talking to him and I've been around since about phase two. He basically said, "when I built phase three, "which is our first 32 acre range, I realized that is actually in the pepper business now," and he realized he was a grower and then he fell in love with the industry. And again, kept pushing how we can do things automated? How do we can do things? How do we get more yield, more everything out of what we do? And as a lover of technology he made it a great environment for everybody including the growers to work in and to just do something new. >> Well, I mean the thing that we know that as populations grow we're not getting more land. Okay (laughs). So, you have to get better yield and the answer is not to just pound vegetables with pesticides. So maybe talk about how you guys are different from sort of a conventional farming approach, just in terms of maybe your yield, how you treat the plants, how you're able to pick throughout the year, give us some insight there. >> So basically I'll start with through the lifecycle of a pepper. So it's basically planted at a propagator and then it comes to our facility and it comes in the little white boxes here behind me. And they actually are usually about that tall. They're about a foot tall. Maybe a little more when they come to us. And right from that point in time, we start keeping track of everything. How much we put water, how much water it doesn't take, what nutrients it takes, how much it weighs. We actually weigh the vines to know how much they are in real time. We do everything top to bottom. So we actually control the life cycle of the plant. On top of that, we also look and have a whole bio scout division. So it's a group of people that are starting to use AI to actually look at how the bugs are attacking the plants. And then at the same time, we release a good bug that will eventually die off to kill the bugs that are starting to harm the plant. So it basically allows us to basically do as close to natural way of growing a plant as possible without spraying or doing anything like that at night. It's actually funny 'cause there's a lot pictures out there and you think that a greenhouse, it's going to be wet in here. And actually for the most part, it is dry all the time. Like I'm very hot, it's very dry and it's just how we work. We don't let anything inside. We control everything in that plant's life. And now with our newest range, we even control how much light it gets. So we basically give it light all night too. And even some nights when it's a little days out, not like today, but when it's a little dark out and the sun's not up there, we'll actually make sure it gets more light to get that more yield out of it. So we can grow 24/7 12 months a year. >> Okay Keith. So it sounds like you're using data and AI to really inform you as to nature's best formula for the good bugs, the bad bugs, the lighting to really drive yields and quality. >> Yeah, we analyze, like I said, everything from the edge that we collect, like I said, we have over 2000 sensors out in the greenhouse and we keep expanding it more and more every year to collect everything from the length of the vine, the weight of the vine in real time. And we basically collect it from the day the plant is born to the day that we actually take it all out to be composted. We know how much light it got. Does it need to get light that day? We analyze everything in general and it allows us to take that data back in real time to make it better and to look at the past data to do better again. Like you hear, some times we have actually have a cart going by here now. That data from that cart, we'll go back to our growers and they will know how much weight they got out of that row in the next 15 to 20 minutes. So they can actually look, okay, how did that plant react to the sun, how's tomorrow? Does it need more nutrients? Does it need a little less? They take all that data from the core and make sure it's all accurate and as up to date as possible. >> So Keith, and maybe even you can give us approximations, but so how much acreage do you have? And how much acreage would you need with conventional farming techniques to get the kind of yields and quality that you guys are able to achieve? >> So we own 160 acres of greenhouse that's actually under glass. It's actually 200 acres total of land but what's 160 acres approximately of greenhouse that's actually under glass. 'A' we're always constantly growing. Our demand is up that that's why we grow so fast. Usually you're looking at both 12 to one. So for every foot squared of space, you're looking for equivalent is about 12 feet squared for a conventional farm. That's the general average. Mostly because we can harvest year round, we can continually harvest. We maximize the harvest amount and everything total. >> I'm also interested in your regime, your team. So obviously you're supporting from an IT perspective, but you've got all this AI going on. You've got this data life cycle. So what does the data team look like? >> We're actually... I always laugh though. I like to call our growers are basically data analysts. They're not really part of my IT team, but they basically have learned the role of how to analyze data. So we'll have basically one or two junior growers, per range. So probably about, I'd say about, we have about 10 to 12 junior growers and then one senior grower per whole farm. So probably about three or four senior growers at any one time. But my IT staff is actually about a team of four, five, including myself. And we are always constantly looking at how to improve data and how to automate the process. That's what drives us to do more. And that's where the robots even come in is every time we look at something, it's not even from an IT perspective, but even just from a picking perspective, how do we automate this? How do we do a better tomorrow? How do we continually clean this up? And it just never ends. And every year we look back, okay, it cost us a dollar per meter squared or per foot square for the people down South in America there now. We look at that and how do we do that better next year? How do we do better the next day? And it's a constant looking and it's something we look at refining and now that's why we're going so much into AI 'cause we want to not look at the data and decide what to do. We want the data to tell us what to do. >> You guys are on the cutting edge. I mean this is the future of farming. I wonder if we could talk about the IT, what does the IT group look like in the future of farming? I mean you guys, what's your infrastructure look like? Are you all in the cloud or you can't be in the cloud because this is really an extent of an IoT or an edge use case. Paint a picture of the IT infrastructure for us if you would. >> So the IT infrastructure it's a very large amount at the edge. We take a lot of the information from the edge and we bring it back to our core to do our analyzing. But for the most part, we don't really leverage the cloud much yet and most of it is on-prem. We are starting to experiment with moving out to the cloud. And a lot of it is, you'll laugh though, is because the farming and agriculture industry really was stagnant for a long time and not really stagnant, but just didn't really progress as fast as the rest of the world. So now they're just starting to catch up and realizing, wow, this is a growing industry. We can do a lot of cool things with technology in this range. And now it's just exploded. So I'm going to say in the next five to 10 years, you're going to see a lot more private clouds and things like that happening with us. I know we're right now starting to just look at creating with the VxRail, a private cloud, and a concept like that to start to test that water again of how to analyze and how to do more things onsite and in the cloud and leverage everything top to bottom. >> So you've got your own servers at the edge... So Intel based servers, what's your storage infrastructure look like? Maybe describe the network a little bit. >> Yap. Okay. So we are basically, I'll admit here, we are a Dell factory. We're basically everything top to bottom. Right now we're on an FX2, Dell FX2 platform. It's basically our core platform we've been using for the last five years. It does all of our analitics and stuff like that. And we have just transformed our unstructured data to Isilon. It's been one of the best things for us to clean that up and make things move forward. It was actually one of those things that management actually looked at me and kind of looked at me and said, "what are you nuts?" Because we basically bought our first Isilon and then four months later, I said, "I love this. I got to have more," because everybody loved it so much in the way of store things. So we actually doubled the size of it within four months, which was a great... It was actually very seamless to do, but we're now also in a position where the FX2 in that stage type of situation didn't quite work for us to expand it. It wasn't as easy to expand. So we wanted to get away that we could expand at a moment's notice. We can change, we can scale out much faster and do things easier. So that's why we're transforming to a VxRail to basically clean that up and allow us to expand as we grow. >> So you're essentially trying to replicate the agility and speed of the cloud but like you say, you're an edge use case. So you can't do everything in cloud. Is that the right way to think about it? You mentioned private cloud but just sort of cloud experience, but at the edge. >> Yeah. We try to keep everything at the edge. It just makes it a lot easier to control. Because we're so big. Think about it like you are bringing all this information back from everywhere. It's a lot of data to come back to one spot. So we're trying to push that more, to keep it at the edge so that we can analyze it right there in the moment instead of having to come back and do it but yeah. And I think you'll see in the next few years, a lot of change to the cloud, I think it'll start to be there, but again, like I said, the private cloud will probably be the way most will go. >> Okay. So I got to ask you then, I mean, you've really tested that agility over the last 60 days with this COVID pandemic. How were you able to respond? What role did data play? You had supply chain considerations. Obviously, you got a lot of online ordering going on. You got to get produce out. You've got social distancing. How were you able to handle that crisis? >> Well it was a really great thing for our team. Our team really came together in a great way. We had a lot of people that did have to go home and we started because we had so many ranges all over, already about a year and a half ago we started implementing an SD-WAN solution to allow us to connect to different areas and to do all kinds of stuff. So it was actually very quick for us to be able to send the others home. We used our VeloCloud SD-WAN to expand it. It was very seamless and we just started sending people home left, right and center. The staff that had to stay here, like the workers out in the greenhouse here now are offshore labor as we call it. They work great. They worked with at every moment of the day and they dug right in. We haven't lost heartbeat. Like actually our orders have gone up in the last... Through this COVID experience more than anything else. And it's really learned... It really helped from an IT perspective and I laugh about this and it's one of the greatest things about what I do, I love this moment, is where sometimes we were very hesitant to jump on this video collaboration. I said, "hey, that's a great way of doing this." But sometimes people they're very stuck in their ways and they love it and they're like, "I don't know about this whole team Zoom "and all that fun stuff," but because of this, they've now embraced it and it's actually really changed the way even they've worked. So in a way, it kind of sped up the processes of us becoming more agile that way in a way that would've taken a long time. They now love teams. They love being able to communicate that way. They love being able to just do a quick call. All that functionality has changed and even made us more efficient that way. (mumbles) >> How does this all affect your IT budget allocation? Did you get more budget? Was it flat budget? Did you have to shift budget to sort of work from home and securing the remote workers? Can you sort of describe that dynamic? >> So it did, I'll be true, there's no way around it to not up my budge. They basically said, "yep, "you have to do what you have to do. "We have to continue to function, "we cannot let our greenhouse go down "and what do you need to do to make it happen?" So I quickly contacted Dell and got things coming and improve our infrastructure as much as we could to get ready. I contacted (mumbles). I basically made it so that my team can support every single part of our facet from home if they actually had to go home. So for example, if I had to get stuck at home, I could do every single part of my job from home, including the growers as much as possible. So say our senior grower had to get home. I locked him up. He has to be able to see everything and do everything. So we actually expanded that very quickly and it was a cost to us. But again, there's no technology we didn't implement that we hadn't talked about before. We just hadn't said, "you know what? It's just not the right time to try that." And now we just went ahead and we just said, we got to do it now. And there's not one part of our aspect that we don't reuse. >> Was Dell able to deliver? Did they have supply constraint issues? I mean, I know there's been huge demand for that whole remote worker. Were able to get what you needed in time? >> Yeah. You know what, I think that we hit it a little ahead of the scope of when things started to go bad, our senior management, our president and all that. He basically said, "you know Keith, "we got to get ready on this. "We got to get some stuff coming." We never ran out of some things. The quirkiest thing and it is just a reality, the biggest thing was webcams was to kind of trying to get webcams. Other than that, there was issues with UPS and Purolator and FedEx because they were just inundated too. But for the most part, we kept everything moving. There wasn't a time that I was actually really waiting on something that we had to have. One of the other great things of our senior team that's here is they've really given me the latitude to say, "what do you need and how do you need to do it?" And so I have my own basically storage area of stuff everywhere. And my team does laugh at me 'cause they call me a hoarder and I basically have too much. And we were able to use either some older stuff or some newer stuff and combine it and we got everything running. There was only a little hiccups here and there but nothing ever is going to go perfect. >> Yeah. But it's enabling business results. We've asked a lot of it pros like yourself like what do you expect the shape of the recovery? And obviously our hearts go out to those small businesses that have been decimated. You're clearly seeing industries like airlines and hospitality and restaurants are obviously in rough shape, but there is a bifurcated story here. Some businesses and it sounds like in this camp where the pandemic was actually a tailwind, your online demand is up, food, vegetables, people... There were a lot of meat shortages. So people really turn to vegetables, is that right? Is that the shape of the recovery actually, is maybe not even V-shape, it's been a tailwind for Nature Fresh Farms. >> Yeah. You know what? It has been a tailwind and that's the right way to say it. We've just increased our yieldage. We've increased that, it's not unnew for us, that's been the biggest driving force for us is basically the demand for our product and building fast enough to keep up to that demand. Like we continually build and expand. We've got more ranges being built in the coming years like looking towards the 21, 22, 23 year. It's just going to just continue to expand and that is purely because of demand. And this COVID just again, escalated that little bit 'cause everybody's like, I really want the peppers and like you learned, we actually do have some tasty peppers and tomatoes. So it does make it a nice little treat to have at home for the kids. >> Well, it's an amazing story of tech meets farming. And as you said for years your industry kind of became quiet when it came to tech, but this is the future of farming, in my opinion. And Keith, thanks so much for coming on the CUBE and sharing the story of Nature Fresh Farms. >> Well, thank you for having me. It's been a great pleasure. >> Alright. Thank you for watching everybody this is Dave Vellante for the CUBE and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> From the Cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is the CUBE Conversation. >> Hey everybody this is Dave Vellante and welcome to the special CUBE Conversation. I'm really excited to have Keith Bradley here he's the Vice President of IT at Nature Fresh Farms. Keith good to see you. >> Hey, good to see you too there Dave. >> All right, first of all I got to thank you for sending me these awesome veggies. I got these wonderful peppers. I got red, orange. I got the yellow. I got to tell you Keith these tomatoes almost didn't make it. It's my last one on the vine. >> (Laughs) >> These guys are like candy. It's amazing. >> Yap. They are the tasty thing. >> Wonderful. >> You know what, I'll probably just join you right here now too. I'll have one right here right now and I'll join you right now. >> My kids love these but I'm not bringing them home. And then I got these other grape tomatoes and then I've got these mini pepper poppers that are so sweet. You know which one I'm talking about here. And then we've got the tomatoes on the vine. I mean, it's just unbelievable that you guys are able to do this in a greenhouse. Big cukes, little cukes. Wow. Thank you so much for sending these. Delicious. Really appreciate it. >> Yeah. Well thank you for having them. It's a great little tree and it's something that I know you're going to enjoy. And I love for everybody to have it and there's not a person I haven't seen that hasn't enjoyed our tomatoes and peppers. >> Now tell me more about Nature Fresh Farms. Let's talk about your business I want to spend some time on that. We've got IoT, we got a data lifecycle. All kinds of cool stuff, scanners. Paint a picture for us. >> I like to even go... If you don't mind. I like to even go back to where our roots actually came from. So Peter Quiring, our owner actually was a builder by nature and he was actually back in the year 2000 really wanted to get into the greenhouse because he was a manufacturer. And he built our phase one facility back in 2000 under the concept that he said, "there's computers out there." And Peter will be the first one to say, "I don't know how to use them, "but I know that it can do a lot for us." So even back in 2000, we were starting to experiment with using the computers back then to control the greenhouse, to do much of the functionality. Then he bought it under the concept as our sister company, South Essex Fabricating that he would sell the greenhouse turnkey to somebody else. Well, talking to him and I've been around since about phase two. He basically said, "when I built phase three, "which is our first 32 acre range, I realized that is actually in the pepper business now," and he realized he was a grower and then he fell in love with the industry. And again, kept pushing how we can do things automated? How do we can do things? How do we get more yield, more everything out of what we do? And as a lover of technology he made it a great environment for everybody including the growers to work in and to just do something new. >> Well, I mean the thing that we know that as populations grow we're not getting more land. Okay (laughs). So, you have to get better yield and the answer is not to just pound vegetables with pesticides. So maybe talk about how you guys are different from sort of a conventional farming approach, just in terms of maybe your yield, how you treat the plants, how you're able to pick throughout the year, give us some insight there. >> So basically I'll start with through the lifecycle of a pepper. So it's basically planted at a propagator and then it comes to our facility and it comes in the little white boxes here behind me. And they actually are usually about that tall. They're about a foot tall. Maybe a little more when they come to us. And right from that point in time, we start keeping track of everything. How much we put water, how much water it doesn't take, what nutrients it takes, how much it weighs. We actually weigh the vines to know how much they are in real time. We do everything top to bottom. So we actually control the life cycle of the plant. On top of that, we also look and have a whole bio scout division. So it's a group of people that are starting to use AI to actually look at how the bugs are attacking the plants. And then at the same time, we release a good bug that will eventually die off to kill the bugs that are starting to harm the plant. So it basically allows us to basically do as close to natural way of growing a plant as possible without spraying or doing anything like that at night. It's actually funny 'cause there's a lot pictures out there and you think that a greenhouse, it's going to be wet in here. And actually for the most part, it is dry all the time. Like I'm very hot, it's very dry and it's just how we work. We don't let anything inside. We control everything in that plant's life. And now with our newest range, we even control how much light it gets. So we basically give it light all night too. And even some nights when it's a little days out, not like today, but when it's a little dark out and the sun's not up there, we'll actually make sure it gets more light to get that more yield out of it. So we can grow 24/7 12 months a year. >> Okay Keith. So it sounds like you're using data and AI to really inform you as to nature's best formula for the good bugs, the bad bugs, the lighting to really drive yields and quality. >> Yeah, we analyze, like I said, everything from the edge that we collect, like I said, we have over 2000 sensors out in the greenhouse and we keep expanding it more and more every year to collect everything from the length of the vine, the weight of the vine in real time. And we basically collect it from the day the plant is born to the day that we actually take it all out to be composted. We know how much light it got. Does it need to get light that day? We analyze everything in general and it allows us to take that data back in real time to make it better and to look at the past data to do better again. Like you hear, some times we have actually have a cart going by here now. That data from that cart, we'll go back to our growers and they will know how much weight they got out of that row in the next 15 to 20 minutes. So they can actually look, okay, how did that plant react to the sun, how's tomorrow? Does it need more nutrients? Does it need a little less? They take all that data from the core and make sure it's all accurate and as up to date as possible. >> So Keith, and maybe even you can give us approximations, but so how much acreage do you have? And how much acreage would you need with conventional farming techniques to get the kind of yields and quality that you guys are able to achieve? >> So we own 160 acres of greenhouse that's actually under glass. It's actually 200 acres total of land but what's 160 acres approximately of greenhouse that's actually under glass. 'A' we're always constantly growing. Our demand is up that that's why we grow so fast. Usually you're looking at both 12 to one. So for every foot squared of space, you're looking for equivalent is about 12 feet squared for a conventional farm. That's the general average. Mostly because we can harvest year round, we can continually harvest. We maximize the harvest amount and everything total. >> I'm also interested in your regime, your team. So obviously you're supporting from an IT perspective, but you've got all this AI going on. You've got this data life cycle. So what does the data team look like? >> We're actually... I always laugh though. I like to call our growers are basically data analysts. They're not really part of my IT team, but they basically have learned the role of how to analyze data. So we'll have basically one or two junior growers, per range. So probably about, I'd say about, we have about 10 to 12 junior growers and then one senior grower per whole farm. So probably about three or four senior growers at any one time. But my IT staff is actually about a team of four, five, including myself. And we are always constantly looking at how to improve data and how to automate the process. That's what drives us to do more. And that's where the robots even come in is every time we look at something, it's not even from an IT perspective, but even just from a picking perspective, how do we automate this? How do we do a better tomorrow? How do we continually clean this up? And it just never ends. And every year we look back, okay, it cost us a dollar per meter squared or per foot square for the people down South in America there now. We look at that and how do we do that better next year? How do we do better the next day? And it's a constant looking and it's something we look at refining and now that's why we're going so much into AI 'cause we want to not look at the data and decide what to do. We want the data to tell us what to do. >> You guys are on the cutting edge. I mean this is the future of farming. I wonder if we could talk about the IT, what does the IT group look like in the future of farming? I mean you guys, what's your infrastructure look like? Are you all in the cloud or you can't be in the cloud because this is really an extent of an IoT or an edge use case. Paint a picture of the IT infrastructure for us if you would. >> So the IT infrastructure it's a very large amount at the edge. We take a lot of the information from the edge and we bring it back to our core to do our analyzing. But for the most part, we don't really leverage the cloud much yet and most of it is on-prem. We are starting to experiment with moving out to the cloud. And a lot of it is, you'll laugh though, is because the farming and agriculture industry really was stagnant for a long time and not really stagnant, but just didn't really progress as fast as the rest of the world. So now they're just starting to catch up and realizing, wow, this is a growing industry. We can do a lot of cool things with technology in this range. And now it's just exploded. So I'm going to say in the next five to 10 years, you're going to see a lot more private clouds and things like that happening with us. I know we're right now starting to just look at creating with the VxRail, a private cloud, and a concept like that to start to test that water again of how to analyze and how to do more things onsite and in the cloud and leverage everything top to bottom. >> So you've got your own servers at the edge... So Intel based servers, what's your storage infrastructure look like? Maybe describe the network a little bit. >> Yap. Okay. So we are basically, I'll admit here, we are a Dell factory. We're basically everything top to bottom. Right now we're on an FX2, Dell FX2 platform. It's basically our core platform we've been using for the last five years. It does all of our analitics and stuff like that. And we have just transformed our unstructured data to Isilon. It's been one of the best things for us to clean that up and make things move forward. It was actually one of those things that management actually looked at me and kind of looked at me and said, "what are you nuts?" Because we basically bought our first Isilon and then four months later, I said, "I love this. I got to have more," because everybody loved it so much in the way of store things. So we actually doubled the size of it within four months, which was a great... It was actually very seamless to do, but we're now also in a position where the FX2 in that stage type of situation didn't quite work for us to expand it. It wasn't as easy to expand. So we wanted to get away that we could expand at a moment's notice. We can change, we can scale out much faster and do things easier. So that's why we're transforming to a VxRail to basically clean that up and allow us to expand as we grow. >> So you're essentially trying to replicate the agility and speed of the cloud but like you say, you're an edge use case. So you can't do everything in cloud. Is that the right way to think about it? You mentioned private cloud but just sort of cloud experience, but at the edge. >> Yeah. We try to keep everything at the edge. It just makes it a lot easier to control. Because we're so big. Think about it like you are bringing all this information back from everywhere. It's a lot of data to come back to one spot. So we're trying to push that more, to keep it at the edge so that we can analyze it right there in the moment instead of having to come back and do it but yeah. And I think you'll see in the next few years, a lot of change to the cloud, I think it'll start to be there, but again, like I said, the private cloud will probably be the way most will go. >> Okay. So I got to ask you then, I mean, you've really tested that agility over the last 60 days with this COVID pandemic. How were you able to respond? What role did data play? You had supply chain considerations. Obviously, you got a lot of online ordering going on. You got to get produce out. You've got social distancing. How were you able to handle that crisis? >> Well it was a really great thing for our team. Our team really came together in a great way. We had a lot of people that did have to go home and we started because we had so many ranges all over, already about a year and a half ago we started implementing an SD-WAN solution to allow us to connect to different areas and to do all kinds of stuff. So it was actually very quick for us to be able to send the others home. We used our VeloCloud SD-WAN to expand it. It was very seamless and we just started sending people home left, right and center. The staff that had to stay here, like the workers out in the greenhouse here now are offshore labor as we call it. They work great. They worked with at every moment of the day and they dug right in. We haven't lost heartbeat. Like actually our orders have gone up in the last... Through this COVID experience more than anything else. And it's really learned... It really helped from an IT perspective and I laugh about this and it's one of the greatest things about what I do, I love this moment, is where sometimes we were very hesitant to jump on this video collaboration. I said, "hey, that's a great way of doing this." But sometimes people they're very stuck in their ways and they love it and they're like, "I don't know about this whole team Zoom "and all that fun stuff," but because of this, they've now embraced it and it's actually really changed the way even they've worked. So in a way, it kind of sped up the processes of us becoming more agile that way in a way that would've taken a long time. They now love teams. They love being able to communicate that way. They love being able to just do a quick call. All that functionality has changed and even made us more efficient that way. (mumbles) >> How does this all affect your IT budget allocation? Did you get more budget? Was it flat budget? Did you have to shift budget to sort of work from home and securing the remote workers? Can you sort of describe that dynamic? >> So it did, I'll be true, there's no way around it to not up my budge. They basically said, "yep, "you have to do what you have to do. "We have to continue to function, "we cannot let our greenhouse go down "and what do you need to do to make it happen?" So I quickly contacted Dell and got things coming and improve our infrastructure as much as we could to get ready. I contacted (mumbles). I basically made it so that my team can support every single part of our facet from home if they actually had to go home. So for example, if I had to get stuck at home, I could do every single part of my job from home, including the growers as much as possible. So say our senior grower had to get home. I locked him up. He has to be able to see everything and do everything. So we actually expanded that very quickly and it was a cost to us. But again, there's no technology we didn't implement that we hadn't talked about before. We just hadn't said, "you know what? It's just not the right time to try that." And now we just went ahead and we just said, we got to do it now. And there's not one part of our aspect that we don't reuse. >> Was Dell able to deliver? Did they have supply constraint issues? I mean, I know there's been huge demand for that whole remote worker. Were able to get what you needed in time? >> Yeah. You know what, I think that we hit it a little ahead of the scope of when things started to go bad, our senior management, our president and all that. He basically said, "you know Keith, "we got to get ready on this. "We got to get some stuff coming." We never ran out of some things. The quirkiest thing and it is just a reality, the biggest thing was webcams was to kind of trying to get webcams. Other than that, there was issues with UPS and Purolator and FedEx because they were just inundated too. But for the most part, we kept everything moving. There wasn't a time that I was actually really waiting on something that we had to have. One of the other great things of our senior team that's here is they've really given me the latitude to say, "what do you need and how do you need to do it?" And so I have my own basically storage area of stuff everywhere. And my team does laugh at me 'cause they call me a hoarder and I basically have too much. And we were able to use either some older stuff or some newer stuff and combine it and we got everything running. There was only a little hiccups here and there but nothing ever is going to go perfect. >> Yeah. But it's enabling business results. We've asked a lot of it pros like yourself like what do you expect the shape of the recovery? And obviously our hearts go out to those small businesses that have been decimated. You're clearly seeing industries like airlines and hospitality and restaurants are obviously in rough shape, but there is a bifurcated story here. Some businesses and it sounds like in this camp where the pandemic was actually a tailwind, your online demand is up, food, vegetables, people... There were a lot of meat shortages. So people really turn to vegetables, is that right? Is that the shape of the recovery actually, is maybe not even V-shape, it's been a tailwind for Nature Fresh Farms. >> Yeah. You know what? It has been a tailwind and that's the right way to say it. We've just increased our yieldage. We've increased that, it's not unnew for us, that's been the biggest driving force for us is basically the demand for our product and building fast enough to keep up to that demand. Like we continually build and expand. We've got more ranges being built in the coming years like looking towards the 21, 22, 23 year. It's just going to just continue to expand and that is purely because of demand. And this COVID just again, escalated that little bit 'cause everybody's like, I really want the peppers and like you learned, we actually do have some tasty peppers and tomatoes. So it does make it a nice little treat to have at home for the kids. >> Well, it's an amazing story of tech meets farming. And as you said for years your industry kind of became quiet when it came to tech, but this is the future of farming, in my opinion. And Keith, thanks so much for coming on the CUBE and sharing the story of Nature Fresh Farms. >> Well, thank you for having me. It's been a great pleasure. >> Alright. Thank you for watching everybody this is Dave Vellante for the CUBE and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

from the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world this is a cube conversation hey welcome back to ready Jeff Rick here with the cube we're on Apollo Alto studios today for a cute conversation with some of our friends from VMware big announcement today and we're excited to have a kick Kolbert come on he is the VP at CTO of cloud platform business unit kid great to see you again I'm gonna be here absolutely so big announcement it's the second generation of the VMware cloud on Dell EMC now you guys just brought this to market barely a year ago tell us about about the new announcement and some of the excitement around the changes that you guys put in place yeah absolutely yeah so this has been a project that's been in the making for a few years now we first announced the product version of this in April of last year and then we announced the general availability of it in August at our VMworld conference and so as we've been engaging with customers since we went GA what we've seen and heard from them was that you know they're looking for more data center style options traditionally when we first started this project you may remember it was called project dimension before in the product of VMware Colin Dell AMC beccarose project dimension we had more of an edge computing focus we were focused on how can we get compute in our VMware infrastructure out to factories and retail settings and so on and so forth and so we designed the system for those types of environments a half rack configuration smaller number of servers things like a power supply and UPS built in but as we heard back from customers what they said was hey this is great but we have a lot of needs in our data center today and so the idea there was let's rethink this offering for the data center and actually produced the types of rack architectures and server types that customers are looking for just goes to show you try to give them yin and they want yang right it's yeah so so it's a very different kind of challenge than going into the data center environment and you know one of the promises of cloud is is obviously provisioning right and spinning things up so that's a really important piece of the puzzle how are you guys addressing you know letting people add capacity and kind of changes configuration if it's actually you know in my data center yeah yeah so you seen a number of different things that we're doing here really yeah enhancing the maturity across the board of this offering so it's important to realize that this is a cloud service yes even though the physical servers in the rack reside on premises for a customer again in their data center at a retail location it is a cloud service and that we are running this and managing this like cloud service and so like any good cloud service merge have to interact with any human being right they can just call any guy and indeed that's the way it works either through an API or through our UI workflow today a customer can come on and order a new esidisi rack for their environment and that initial provisioning you know we fully automated that we had a dell service technician coming out you know actually figure the hardware on on-site but then after that and you know we didn't have many options for customers let's say that they started out with maybe four nodes on-site but then they realize Oh Ashley needs six or eight nodes right they're getting more applications on there greater usage and they just need more capacity and so what we support now is this ability to actually again use an API using the UI request additional servers or their existing racks and this is again something very simple to do in just a few weeks that those things will arrive the the service ignition will be there to install them and get that customer up right so I was gonna say you know typically it's order and then you got you got to put the stuff in and deploy it right and then support it so you just touched a little bit on the deployment did you basically take that order and then just with your existing process get into the data center and and light up that additional hardware yeah so we're doing a lot to really automate this whole process and the powerful thing here is that you know this partnership that we have between VMware and difficult runs really deep so we've actually engaged and integrated into their manufacturing process so that as we get that order through the API through the UI from a user we can ship that over to Dell tell them specifics of what that customer ordered and Dell can get started manufacturing that we actually again as for that manufacturing process integration we can get the latest version of our cloud software onto those servers we can install unique cryptographic keys on those servers so we can identify them and then we work with the Dell shipping and the Dell service technicians to actually meet those physical servers when they arrive and properly set them up and configure them taking the customer it's a completely hands-off experience I think that's a really powerful they're not you know they don't need to give the nitty-gritty of hardware configuration and installing our software and managing the lifecycle of it it's much much simpler than that and so you know I think we've really taken that and extended it here both with the additional rack type scene we have for a full rack now for the data center new host types a new host type that's much beefier better for datacenter workloads and finally for that expanded capacity that we just talked about as well right and then on the support side I assume you know even though it's it's VMware cloud on Dell EMC that probably the first line of support is still VMware it's still the software on top of the infrastructure yeah that's a good question and yeah you're right it is it's a VMware on VMware operated service and absolutely VMware provides that first line of support so it's not one of these situations where you've got two different vendors pointing the finger at each other and the customer has to figure all that out now it's on VMware and we need to figure it out we obviously work with Dell on the backend we've also integrated with their telemetry systems so we can pull all the different sort of hardware telemetry monitoring data that they that they're getting so we can understand the health of those servers that are running and when we detect a problem is that something that we can fix remotely by just accessing it with our engineers or do we need a service technician to actually go out there and it's this whole issue right right so it's just interesting you guys launched this really thinking more edge and you're getting drawn into more of a data center so why are you getting drawn in what are some of the advantages you know that the sky O's and the CTOs are seeing with this type of a deployment yeah so the data center part is really interesting and again sir processing they thought we thought there would be more need at the edge initially just because hey these edge environments are really difficult to manage and they're kind of distributed and people don't have IT staff there but we're surprised to hear about is the very urgent need customers have their data centers now again they have servers in the data centers that they're running these things today but what they find is that it just doesn't work that well and that they're spending a lot of time and resources on just keeping the lights on and it's you know these things don't differentiate them as a business you know one of things I talk to customers a lot about is that no customer has ever differentiated itself by how well they run VMware infrastructure and that might sound kind of crazy at first right but yeah it's true I can differentiate themselves negatively by how poorly and they run an infrastructure and then you know their apps don't work very well but some degrees have been working VMware infrastructure is just table sticks right and then what they do in an app level is what differentiates them and so this idea that we can come in with VMware cloud on Dell EMC just take care of all of that operational overhead is really really powerful and so as you see folks and customers and companies going through these digital transformation cycles modernizing their applications they're like oh man I need to actually modernize my infrastructure as well and so that's a compelling event that we say it's like oh there's gonna be think this right as are we thinking that they're like well why am i doing all this work in the first place let's actually rethink the whole thing and take them better fundamentally better approach ie a cloud approach and so that's where VM were caught in delians he comes in again I think that's why we're seeing so much interest from customers and again we're CIA knows and CTOs can really see a lot of benefits right I'm just curious you're taking from kind of a product development a product release point of view right is this kind of a typical VMware you know kind of speed and pacing or is this really you know getting to the second gen and this shift you know kind of in your data market has really more of a response to the market because again as as I was preparing and looking up when the initial launch was it really wasn't that long ago - so - to kind of pivot and call it second gen and include features and functions that are coming back from the market would you say that's kind of typical or you guys get it a little bit more agile in your own you know kind of product development cycle and getting away from those massive PR d's and mr d's and actually you know trying to respond more quickly to the to the pace of the marketplace yeah that's a great point and yeah you're right we are going through our own digital transformation here at VMware all right now we are shifting from a company that primarily sold shrink-wrapped software to a company that sells all services and so you know as you look at that it actually changes a lot of what we can do we can respond much much more quickly much quicker to this sort of customer feedback now we can ship new updates much more frequently and so you know if you look at our traditional vSphere release cycles those were what every 12 months 18 months may be at most but what we can do now with our con releases is actually update and do major updates every three months and so we call this kind of the second you know major advance of VMware kondalian see but in reality it's our third our fourth actual release of our underlying software and so we're actually doing these underlying releases much much quicker I think the reason that we're focusing on this launch in particular is because of the fact that again customers have been asking for this data center level support and really optimizing this solution for the data center and so now we've gone and done that and again I think we're gonna see a lot more interest from the customers on the data center side because of it great well okay thanks for giving us the quick update congratulations on the release and just keep rolling it let's listen to those customers and they'll tell you what they want definitely yeah we're excited - thank you alright kit thanks again he's kid I'm Jeff you're watching the cube thanks for watching we'll see you next time you [Music]

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a Cube conversation. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman, and I'm talking to you out of our Boston area studio, and we have been doing a CXO leadership series, talking with leaders across the IT industry about how they're managing during this global pandemic. I'm really happy to welcome back to the program, he's a Cube alumni. He was a Racker, and he is now with Stacker. We'll get into the company in a bit, but Prashanth Chandrasekar, the CEO of Stack Overflows, thanks so much for joining. >> Thank you for having me again Stu. Really a pleasure, and always a fan of the Cube, so great to be here. >> Alright, and we note that you sporting the quarantine, you know beard, you know, grown since the last time we had you on the program. Prasthanth, you were named CEO of Stack Overflow at the end of 2019. Obviously, certain plans that you have you're a Harvard Business School alum, you've worked in, you know, the enterprise and cloud communities for a while. Take us back to, you know, what your team has been doing, really to react and lead in this global pandemic. >> Ya, no happy to, Stu, and obviously this is a very, you know, trying time for, you know, just the world in general right. So, companies small and large are having to kind of grapple with the reality, but I would say in general, I started October 1st, 2019 at, you know, at this amazing company, and it's just, been a real joy to see us really adapt very quickly based on just you know, just kind of challenging environment that we're in, and primarily if you think about Stack Overflow, you know, we were blessed that our, you know, our company has an ethos, an ethos perspective. We've been you know, highly remote in nature for years, for over a decade so you know, 80% of our team, product engineering team has been remote. 60% of our marketing team was remote, and then 40% of our company was remote all around the world. So, moving from that 40% to 100%, which we did very proactively in March, early March of 2020, has been a huge boon for our company in just our Stackers as you pointed out, they've just been very, I would say grateful that we've done that very, very quickly. Secondly, I would say the just the notion of, you know, being able to think about our business, and you know, our community, and how do we help each other. We've done a lot, you know, we meet with you know, we come together as a team, you know, three times a week, and we've already had sort of this Covid stand up as a leadership team, as a newly formed leadership team mind you, which I've just helped form over the past six months, and we've all really gone, you know, really to the extremes to make sure that our Stackers are their health and safety are taken care of. How do we serve our community in this environment? How do we make sure our customers are being, you know, really are getting the maximum value of our products, which are all focused on collaboration, so very relevant in this remote world. So, it's really been, I would say, all around, people have really rallied we had sort of a, I would say, somewhat of an advantage just having you know, adopting remote work at this point. >> But Prasthanth, maybe it makes sense if actually step back for a second. I'm sure most people are familiar with Stack Overflow, but give us, the kind of, the high level view of, you know, what the company is, and what drew you into the leadership role there. >> Yeah, no absolutely. You know I think Stack Overflow extremely well known obviously, with every developer and technologist in the world. So, in a nutshell, you know, we are the world's most trusted and largest community for developers and technologists. We have something like 120 million unique visitors that come to our websites every month, and talking 180,000 sign ups on a monthly basis. So, just say we do say a dramatic amount of impact to help ultimately, these folks solve their most complex problems on a variety of topics, whether that is cloud related topics, security related topics, full stack engineering related topics like Python or Rust, or you name it. All those, you know, those areas are covered in very much and very a lot of detail for our community we effectively share. Solutions to common questions, and code, and really be able to accelerate the development of software around the world. So, ultimately, it comes down to our mission, which our mission what we like to say is we help write the script of the future by serving developers and technologists, and so, that's our company in a nutshell. On top of that, ecosystem of communities that we've built. We have a great set of products, SaaS products that we've also built to help with real time collaboration within companies in a very, very similar format to our public community format. So, that's been very compelling. So, the two reasons why I joined the company beyond obviously the mission, number 1 is just the global impact, you know, there are only a few companies that have the level of impact that this company has around the world and helping everybody sort of accelerate their software development. Whatever apps you're building, and obviously we know, that we're sort of in this beautiful, Goldilocks zone of digital transformation, where everything is accelerating, even given the current environment. That's the first reason, just given the vast reach of this company, and then secondly, you know, is the fact that we are really trying to transform the company and accelerate the transformation into a SaaS company. So, our Stack Overflow for teams product, which is again the knowledge sharing SaaS squad that we have internally, is really a phenomenal way to share evergreen knowledge, and non-ephemeral type information within companies so that your most important questions are answered. They're answered once, and your not, you know, constantly having to, you know, tap people on the shoulder to answer a common question. So, those are the two primary reasons. One is the impact to the community, and secondly acceleration of our SaaS business. >> Excellent, Prasthanth. So wonder if you could help us drill in, and understand the business little bit. There's private repository, there's teams there. You know, it's interesting, if you look on the outside you say wait, is this kind of like a Reddit? Or when I hear you describe it, sure reminds me a little bit of say GitHub, who obviously got taken off the table for a rather large number so, I'll let you bring us inside a little bit of you know, how does the company you know, make money, and what are the plans that both, you know, support, you know, those broad communities and diverse things, but also, you know built that business. >> Ya, no absolutely, you know I think for us you know, we really believe it's a common, our mission statement like I mentioned is really our core driver for us, and so the ecosystem of communities that we've built for developers, as well as technologists, again just a very, very vast number, and we create developers right, on a daily basis through our community. So, it's very powerful in that people are learning about new technologies, or frameworks, or you know, cloud technologies through our websites, and so they are you know, that's a bit of a huge accelerant to this creation of jobs, and you know, people's capabilities. On the foundation of that, which is obviously, you know, accessible to everybody, and you know, it's free in fact, we had this ecosystem of products, and the first one in the primary Saas product is Stack Overflow for teams, which is this knowledge sharing and collaboration product that allows companies within, or teams within companies to use the same format that they absolutely love in the public community that they use to, you know, learn up on those subjects that I mentioned, but now share internal priority information to accelerate their development internally. To breakdown walls between teams, like product, and engineering, and developers, and operations, and also go to market teams, like product marketing teams, and sales teams, and so we have you know, a tremendous number of enterprises that have joined our program, over the past several quarters including Microsoft, who is a very happy customer that uses, you know, they have something like 70,000 developers and technologists, and go to market folks within Microsoft that are using our product platform to breakdown walls, and to be able to move very quickly with launching their products, and staying collaborative internally. In addition to that, we have what we call our Reach and Relevance business which is all around helping, just based on the fact that we have such massive reach in 120 million people from around the world showing up on our websites. Being able to help companies you know, showcase their capabilities and products in our platform, and also engage with the community, and for obviously the community to then learn about many of the latest and greatest of what's being launched by these phenomenal companies that are innovating very rapidly. >> Ya, so Prasthanth, we started off the conversation, you talked a little bit about the impact of the global pandemic. I'm curious, are you seeing any, you know, changes in trends? Are there new things that are trending on your site? Are there things that are either on the website, or they're coming to your team to learn more about? >> Ya, no definitely I think there are two places that I can point to. One would be on the community side we've definitely seen a spike in traffic in places like our meta-academia website, you know, as an example. Online learning became a huge topic of interest when people went remote, and obviously, you have families around the world that are trying to figure out not only how to school their kids but we have teachers all around in schools trying to figure out what are the best set of resources. So, we have, you know, all sorts of, like I said, about 40 million questions and answers across all sorts of topics, including you know, next generation E-learning sort of capabilities in our communities, and so, we've seen a spike in traffic in places like that. We've seen a spike in our medical communities, and our biology communities obviously, because of you know, people's curiosity, and these are, you know fairly advanced, you know academics, and people who are in the scientific community that spend a lot of time thinking about, you know the what's really behind Covid-19. What are the details of, you know, if you think about all sorts of topics around genetics, and obviously, the pharmaceutical implications so, we've seen a tremendous uptake in those sites, and in addition of course, overall to our overall websites, because people are spending time, you know, just at home. In addition, we've seen a very material uptake in our Stack Overflow for teams product where we know we just closed, you know our company's like largest deal in our company's history this past week for about 30,000 seats, you know, at a very large financial services institution, a global services financial institution. There's more and more companies that are thinking about business continuity. They're thinking about how do they stay, how do they collaborate across their distributed teams, their remote teams, and we have, obviously a very significant solution in that space. >> Excellent, well congratulations on that deal. It brings up, I guess, what are some of the key KPI's that you're tracking for to really assure the growth and the health of your business. >> Ya, I think both in terms of, you know , if you think about two sides of the coin right. From the community standpoint, obviously we care about our active users, and our engaged users, and the number of sign-ups, and on that front, that first part of that, you know, we've seen just a dramatic increase, you know, in all those stats, including, you know this year, just as a result of Covid, on average last year, in 2019, you know, the number of sign-ups per month was something like, 150,000 sign-ups per month, unique sign ups from around the world. People signing up for Stack Overflow accounts. This year, on average, it's gone up, and March was our highest sign-up month ever with 180,000 sign-ups for the month. So, we're seeing so that's important. In addition to sign-ups of course, when they come on to our websites we want them to get the answers to their most pressing questions, to be able to engage them with content that is useful to them. So, engagement, you know in terms of monthly engaged users very important, monthly active users is very important for us, and obviously our sign-up numbers. So, those are kind of the community oriented stats that we'd, and KPI's that we'd really track, and those look, you know look very promising, and then, finally on the business side, which is the other side of the coin, in our teams business primarily, and our Reach and Relevance business. Our teams business is all about our customers getting value from the collaboration SaaS platform that we have that they've signed up for right. So, are they using the various features? We've integrated that teams product with all the other popular tools that people use for things like real time collaborations. We integrate with Slack. We integrate with Microsoft Teams. We've integrated with, you know Okta. We've integrated with, you know Okta. We've integrated even with Enterprise, because really the idea is to be a part of that developer and technologist workflow so, folks can really look to Stackflow for Teams as the place where they get common answers, get great answers to their common questions that are constantly being asked within companies, but it's not very effective to ask the same questions again and again. So, the idea is to integrate with these tools to make sure that you are able to have an evergreen place where you can keep that knowledge. So, that's, you know we track usage of those integrations. We talk about how many of those questions and answers are being, you know, being exchanged within companies, and how much ultimately the outcome of saving time and money for our clients so that they are being very effective in their product development cycles, and people are not being tapped on the shoulder for every single item that might comes across for an individual company. So, that's really, there's an economic study that we performed with Forrester that captures a lot of this. So that's, you know, that's and then region relevance is all around engagement on our websites. Some people already looking and seeing, finding value in the content that our companies are posting, and force companies to be effectively translating their knowledge to the audience. >> Awesome. Well, Prasthanth congratulations on the progress, and definitely look forward to cracking the how the Stack Overflow Team is doing going forward. >> Thanks so much Stu, really appreciate the chat, and great to see you again as usual. >> Alright, make sure to check out theCUBE.net for all the coverage. I'm Stu Miniman. Thank you for watching. (gentle music) (gentle music) (gentle music) (gentle music) (gentle music) (gentle music)

>> (vocalizing) >> Narrator: From theCube studios in Palo Alto and Boston, it's theCube. Covering IBM Think, brought to you by IBM. >> Hi everybody, this is Dave Vallante and this is our continuing coverage of Think 2020, the digital event experience. This is the post-thing, the sort of halo effect, the afterthoughts, and joining me is Rob Thomas, he's back. The Senior Vice president of Cloud and Data Platform. Rob, thanks for taking some time to debrief on Think. >> Absolutely Dave, great to be here, good to see you again. >> Yeah, so you have a great event, you guys put it together in record time. I want to talk about sort of your innovation agenda. I mean, you are at the heart of innovation. You're talking cloud, data, AI, really the pillars of innovation, I could probably add in edge to extend the cloud. But I wonder if you could talk about your vision for the innovation agenda and how you're bringing that to customers. I mean, we heard from PayPal, you talked about Royal Bank of Scotland, Credit Mutual, a number of customer examples. How are you bringing innovation forward with the customer? >> I wouldn't describe innovation, maybe I'd give it two different categories. One is, I think the classic term would be consumerization, and you're innovating by making interiorized technology really easy to use. That's why we built out a huge design capability, it's why we've been able to get products like Watson Assistant to get companies live in 24 hours. That's the consumerization aspect, just making enterprise products really easy to use. The second aspect is even harder, which is, how do you tap into an institution like IBM Research, where we're doing fundamental invention. So, one of our now strengths in the last couple of months was around taking technology out of IBM Debater, project Debater, the AI system that could debate humans and then putting that into enterprised products. And, you saw companies like PayPal that are using Watson Assistant and now they have access to that kind of language capability. There's only two aspects here, there's the consumerization and then there's about fundamental technology that really changes how businesses can operate. >> I mean, the point you made about speed and implementation in your key note was critical, I mean really, within 24 hours, very important during this pandemic. Talk about automation, you know, you would think by now right, everything's automation. But, now you're seeing a real boom in automation and it really is driven by AI, all this data, so there's seems to be a next wave, almost a renaissance, if you will, in automation. >> There is and I think automation, when people hear first of the term, it's sometimes a scary term. Because people are like hey, is this going to take my job? Gain a lot of momentum for automation is a difficult, repetitive tasks that nobody really wanted to do in the first place. Whether it's things like data matching, containerizing an application. All these are really hard things and the output's great, but nobody really wants to do that work, they just want the outcome. And, as we've started to demonstrate different use cases for automation that are in that realm, a lot of momentum has taken off, that we're seeing. >> I want to come back to this idea of consumerization and simplification. I mean, when you think about what's been happening over the last several years. And, you and I have talked about this a lot, AI for consumer versus AI for business and enterprise. And really, one of the challenges for the encumbrance, if you will, is to really become data driven, put data at the core and apply machine intelligence to that, just to that data. Now the good news is, they don't have to invent all this stuff, because guys like you are doing that and talk about how you're making that simple. I mean, cloud packs is an example of that, simplification, but talk about how customers are going to be able to tap into AI without having to be AI inventors. >> Well, the classic AI problem actually is a data problem, and the classic data problem is data slide over, which is a company has got a lot of data but it's spread across a hundred or a thousand or tens of thousands different repositories or locations. Our strategy when we say a hybrid cloud is about how do we unify those data storage. So, it's called PaaS, on red hat open shift. We do a lot of things like data virtualization, really high performance. So, we take what is thousands of different data sources and we have that packed like a single fluid item. So then, when you're training models, you can train your models in one place and connect to all your data. That is the big change that's happening and that's how you take something like hybrid cloud, and it actually starts to impact your data architecture. And once you're doing that, then AI becomes a lot easier, because the biggest AI challenge that I described is, where's the data? Is the data in a usable form? >> A lot of times in this industry, you know, we go whale hunting, there are a lot of big companies out there, a lot of times they take priority. You know, at the same time though, a lot of the innovations are coming from companies, you know, we've never even heard of that could be multi-billion dollar companies by the end of the decade. So, how can, you know, small companies and mid-sized companies tap into this trend? Is it just for the big whales or could the small guys participate? >> The thing that's pretty amazing about modern cloud and data technology, I'll call it, is it's accessible to companies of any size. When we talked about, you know, the hundred or so clients that have adopted Watson Assistant since COVID-19 started, many of those are very small institutions with no IT staff or very limited IT staff. Though, we're making this technology very accessible. when you look at something like data, now a small company may not have a hundred different repositories, which is fine, but what they do have is they do want to make better predictions, they do want to automate, they do want to optimize the business processes that they're running in their business. And, the way that we've transformed our model consumption base starting small, it's really making technology available to, you know, from anywhere from the local deli to the Fortune 50 Company. >> So, last question is, What are your big takeaways from Think? I would ask that question normally when we're in a live event. It's a little different with the digital event, but there are still takeaways. What was your reaction and what do to leave people with? >> Even as we get back to doing physical events, which I'm positive will happen at some point. What we learned is there is something great about an immersive digital experience. So, I think the future of events is probably higher than this. Meaning, a big digital experience, to complement the physical experience. That's one big takeaway because the reaction was so positive to the content and how people could access it. Second one is the, all the labs that we did. So, for developers, builders, those were at capacity, meaning we didn't even take any more. So, there's definitively a thirst in the market for developing new applications, developing new data products, developing new security products. That's clear just by the attendance that we saw, that's exciting. Now, I'd say third, that is that AI is now moving into the mainstream, that was clear from the customer examples, whether it was with Tansa or UPS or PayPal that I mentioned before, that was talking with me. AI is becoming accessible to every company, that's pretty exciting. >> Well, the world is hybrid, oh you know the lab, the point you're making about labs is really important. I've talked to a number of individuals saying, "Hey I'm using this time to update my skills. I'm working longer hours, maybe different times of the day, but I'm going to skill up." And you know, the point about AI, 37 years ago, when I started in this business AI was all the buzz and it didn't happen. It's real this time and I'm really excited Rob, that you're at the heart of all this innovation, so really, I appreciate you taking the time. And, best of luck, stay safe, and hopefully we'll see you face to face. >> Offscreen Man: Sure. >> Thanks Dave, same to you and the whole team at theCube, take care. >> Thank you Rob, and thank you for watching everybody, this is Dave Vellante for theCube and our coverage of IBM Think 2020, the digital event experience and the post-event. We'll see you next time. (music)

>>from the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a cube conversation. Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's Cuban sites, powered by ET are in this breaking analysis, we want to accomplish three things. First thing I'll do is we'll recap the current spending outlook. Next, we want to share some of the priorities and sentiments and the outlook that we're hearing from leading tech execs that we've been interviewing in the past couple of weeks on the remote cube. And finally, we'll take a look at really what's going on in the market place, a little bit of a look forward and what we expect in the coming weeks and months ahead. Now, as you know, E. T. R was really the first to quantify with real survey data the impact of covert 19 on I t spend. So I just want to review that for a moment. This CTR graphic right here shows that results from more than 1200 CIOs and I T practitioners. That shows that they expect their I t spending how they're they're spending on the change in 2020 now, look at the gray bar shows a very large number of organizations that they're plowing ahead without any change. In overall, I spend about 35% now shown in the green bars before 21% of respondents are actually increase their budgets this year. And the red bars, of course, they show the carnage. Really, 28% of customers are expecting a decrease of more than 10% year on year. Now, as we've reported, the picture would look a lot worse were it not for the work from home infrastructure, offset by E spending on collaboration tools and related networking security. VPN, VD I interest infrastructure, etcetera. Now remember each year launched this survey on March 11th and ran it through early April. So it caught the change in sentiment literally in real time on a daily basis. And that's what I'm showing here in this graphic. What it does is it overlays key events that occurred during that time frame and what E. T. R did was they modeled and rear end the data excluding the responses prior to each event. So, of course, the forecast got progressively worse over time. But as you can see on the Purple Line. There was a little bit of an uptick in sentiment from the stimulus package, and it looked like, you know, there's another. It looks like there's another economic cash injection coming soon. Now, as we've reported, the card forecast calls for around 4% decline in I t spend from 2020. That's down from plus 4% prior to Corona virus. It's ER has now entered its self imposed quiet period for two weeks. But what we're doing here is showing some of the sectors that we're watching closely for big changes. We're gonna drill into these over the next several weeks. Now, of course, is we've reported we're seeing a substantial cut in I t spend across the board. Capex will be down. We would expect sectors like I t consulting and outsourcing to be way, way down as organizations put a lot of projects on the back burner. But there are bright spots is shown here in the green. One that we really haven't highlighted to date is cloud really haven't dug into that and also data center related services around Cloud Cloud, we think, is definitely going to remain strong and these related services to get connect clouds via Coehlo services and really reducing latency across clouds and on Prem, we think will remain strong. Now I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about some of the learnings and takeaways from our conversations with CSOs over the past couple of weeks. One of the great things about the Cube is we get to build relationships with many, many people. Over the past 10 years, I've probably personally interviewed close to 5000 people, so we've reached out to a number of those execs over the last couple of weeks to really try and understand how they're managing through this cove in 19 Crisis. So let me summarize just some of the things that we heard. And then I'll let the execs speak to you directly first, of course, like tech execs, are there half full people perpetual optimist, if you will. It was interesting to hear how many of the people that I spoke with, that they actually had early visibility on this crisis. Why? Because a lot of our operations, we're actually in China and other parts of Asia, so they saw this coming to an extent, and they saw it coming to the U. S. And so you know, there were somewhat ready and you're here. They all had on air of confidence about their long term viability and putting their put their employees ahead of profits. But the same time, once they see that their employees are okay, they want to get them focused and productive. Now what they've also done is they've increased the cadence and the frequency of their communications. Yeah, and most, if not all, are trying to get back with a free no strings attached software and other similar programs. But the bottom line is, they really don't know what's coming. They don't know when this thing will end. They don't know what a recovery really is gonna look like when people are going to feel safe traveling again what the overall economic impact is gonna be. So I think it's best summarized to say they're hoping for the best, but planning for the worst. But let's listen to this highlight clip that we put together of five execs that I talked to along with John Furrier Melissa DiDonato of Susa. Frank Sluman, who had snowflake and he's formerly the chairman and CEO of service. Now Jeremy Burton is the CEO of a company called Observe. He used to be the CMO of Dell and EMC. Before that, brand products Sanjay Poonam as the CEO of VM Ware and ST ST Vossen heads up Cisco's collaboration business. Roll the clip. >>What keeps me up at night now and how I wake up every morning is wondering about the health of my employees, that a couple of employees, one that was quite ill in Italy. We were phoning him and calling and emailing him from his hospital bed. And that's what's really keeping me going. What's inspiring me to leave this incredible company is the people and the culture that they built that I'm honoring and taking forward as part of the open source value system. My first movers, Let's not overreact. Take a deep breath. Let's really examine what we know. Let's not jump to conclusions. Let's not try to project things that were not capable of projecting death hard because, you know, we tend to have sort of levels off certainty about what's gonna happen in the next week in the next month, and so on. All of a sudden that's out of the window creates enormous anxiety with people. So, in other words, you've got a sort of a reset to Okay, what do we know? What can we do? What we control, Um, and and not let our minds sort of, you know, go out of control. So I talk to are people time of maintain a sense of normalcy focused on the work. Stay in the state in the moment. And ah, I don't turn the news feed off. Right, Because the hysteria you get through that through the media really not helpful. Just haven't been through, you know, a couple of recessions where, you know, we all went through 9 11 You know, the world just turn around and you come out the other side. And so the key thing is, you said it very much is a cliche, but you gotta live in the moment. What can I do right now? What can I affect right now? How can I make sure that you know what I'm working on is a value for when we come out the other side. And when you know more code balls come along. I think you'd better reason about that with the best information you have at the time. I always tell people the profits of VM Ware wheat. If you are not well, if your loved ones not well, if you take a picture of that first, we will be fine. You know this to show fast, but if you're healthy, let's turn our attention because we're not going to just sit in a little mini games. We're gonna so, customers, How do we do that? A lot of our customers are adjusting to this pool, and as a result they have to, you know, either order devices, but the laptop screens things were the kinds to allow work for your environment to be as close to productive as they're working today. I do see some, some things coming. Problem right? Do I expect the volumes off collaboration to go down? You know, it's never going to go back to the same level. The world as we know it is going to change forever. We are going to have a post code area, and that's going to be changed for the better. There's a number of employees who have been skeptical, reticent, working from home were suddenly going to say just work from home. Thing is not so bad after all. >>So you can hear from the execs who all either currently or one point of lead large companies in large teams. They're pretty optimistic now. The other thing that's Lukman told me, by the way, is he approves investments in engineering with no qualms because that's the future of the company. But he's much more circumspect with regard to go to market investments because he wants to see a high probability of yield from the sales teams before making investments there. I also want to share some perspectives that I've learned from small early stage companies, and we've all seen the Sequoia Black Swan memo and you might remember there onerous rest in peace, good times the alert that they put out in 2008. It basically they're essentially advising companies to stop spending on non essential items. By the way, another slew of society also somewhat scoffed at this advice, and he told me on the Cube, you should always stop spending money on non essential items. At any rate, I've talked to a number of early stage investors and portfolio companies, and I'll share a little bit of their play Bach playbook that they're using during this crisis, and it might have some value to the cut, cut cut narrative that you're hearing out there. I think the summary for these early stage startups is first focus on those customers that got you to where you are today. In other words, don't lose sight of your core. The second thing is, try to hone your go to market and align it with current conditions. In other words, paint a picture of the ideal customer and the value proposition that you deliver specifically in the context of the current market. The third thing is, they're updating their forecast more frequently and running sensitivity analysis much more often so that they can better predict outcomes. I e. Reset. You're likely best case and worst case models. The third is essentially reset your near term and midterm plans and those goals and re balance your expense portfolio to reflect these new targets. And this is important by the way, to communicate to your investors. When I've seen is those companies with annual recurring revenue there actually in pretty good shape, believe it or not, in almost all cases, I've seen targets lowered. But there are some examples of startups that are actually increasing their outlook. Think, Zoom, even those who is not a startup anymore. But generally I've seen resets of between 5 to 10% downward, which you know what often is in pretty much in line with the board level goals. And I've seen more drastic reductions as well of up to 50% now. So we've heard some pretty good stories from larger tech companies and some of these VC funded startups. Now I want to talk about small business broadly and what we're hearing from small business owners and also the banks that serve them. Look, I'm not going to sugar coat this many small businesses, as you well know, in deep trouble. They're gonna go out of business. They're laying off people on. There are a number of unemployed the aid package that the government's putting forth the small businesses. It's not working its way through the banking system. Not nearly fast enough, despite the Treasury secretaries efforts, The bottom line is banks don't want to make these loans to small businesses. Right now, there's too much that they don't understand. They're making no money on these loans they're being overwhelmed with. Volume will give you some examples. Bank of America, when the small business payroll program first hit signal that would Onley help companies with both ah banking relationship and an existing lending relationship with the bank UPS is another example said it was only gonna directly help companies with over 500 employees. And for small businesses, it was outsourcing that relationship to another firm, which, of course, meant you had to go through a new rectal exam, if you will, with that new firm. In a way, you can't blame the banks. They're being asked to execute on these programs without clear guidance on how they're supposed to enforce guidelines. And what happens if they make a mistake? Is the federal government gonna pull their guaranteed backing? What are those guidelines? They seem to be changing all the time. And what's the banks, liability and authority to enforce them? Why don't I spend time talking about this? Well, nearly half of US employees work for small businesses, and nearly 17 million workers as of this date have filed for unemployment, and I'll say the banks got bailed out in the financial crisis of 2008 and they need to step up, period, and the government needs to help them, all right. The other buzz kill data that I want to bring up is our national debt. Now many have invoked that there's no such thing as a free lunch, including the famous Milton Friedman, the Economist who I'm gonna credit. Others have said it, but I'll give it to him. Why? Because he espoused controlling the money supply and letting the market's fix themselves bailouts. The banks, airlines, Boeing, automakers, etcetera, those air antithetical to his underlying philosophy. Currently, the U. S national debt is $24 trillion. That's $194,000. Protects player Americans. Personal debt is now 20 trillion. Our unfunded liabilities, like Social Security, Medicare, etcetera now stands at a whopping 139 trillion. And that equates to about 422,000 per citizen. Think about this. The average liquid savings for US family is 15 K, and the U. S debt is now 111% of GDP. So we've been applying Kenzie and Economics for a while now. I'm gonna say it seems to have been working. Think about the predictions of inflation after the 8 4000 and nine crisis. They proved to be wrong. But my concern is I don't see how we grow our way out of this debt, and I worry about that. I've worried about this for a long time, but look, we're knee deep into it and it looks like there's no turning back so well, I'll try to keep my rhetoric to a minimum and stay positive here because I think there is light at the end of the tunnel. We're starting to see some some good opportunities emerging here just in terms of flattening the curve and the like. One of the things that pretty positive about is there gonna be some permanent changes from Cove it. It's kind of ironic that this thing hit as we're entering a new decade decade and as I said before, I expect digital transformations to be accelerated because of this crisis and the many companies that have talked digital from the corner office. But I haven't necessarily really walked the walk, I think will now I think is going to be more cloud more subscription less wasted labor, more automation, more work from home unless big physical events, at least in the next couple of years. So that's kind of the new expectation. As always, we're going to continue to report from our studios in Palo Alto and Boston, and we really welcome and appreciate your feedback. Remember, these segments are all available as podcasts, and we're publishing regularly on silicon angle dot com and on wiki bond dot com. Check out ctr dot plus for all the spending action, and you can feel free to comment on my LinkedIn post or DME at development or email me at David Volante Wiki. Sorry, David Vellante is silicon angle dot com. This is Dave Volante for the Cube Insights powered by CTR. Thanks for watching everyone. We'll see you next time. >>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with our leaders all around the world, this is theCUBE Conversation. >> Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's Wiki Bond CUBE Insights powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis, we're changing the format a little bit, we're going right to the new data from ETR. You might recall that last week, ETR received survey results from over 1000 CIOs and IT practitioners. And they made a call at that time, which said that actually surprisingly, a large number of respondents about 40% said they didn't expect a change in their 2020 IT spending. At the same time about 20% of the survey said they're going to spend more largely related to Work From Home infrastructure. ETR was really the first to report on this. And it wasn't just collaboration tool like zoom and video conferencing. It was infrastructure around that security, network bandwidth and other types of infrastructure to support Work From Home like desktop virtualization. ETR made the call at that time, that it looked like budgets, were going to be flat for 2020. Now, you also might recall consensus estimates for 2020 came into the year at about 4%, slightly ahead of GDP. Obviously, that's all is changed. Last week, ETR took the forecast down, and we're going to update you today. We're now gone slightly negative. And with me to talk about that again, is Sagar Kadakia, who's the Director of Research at ETR. Sagar, great to see you again, thank you for coming on. >> Thanks for having me again David, really appreciate it. >> Let's get right into it. I mean, if you look at the time series chart that we showed last week, you can see how sentiment changed over time. That blue line was basically people who responded to the survey starting at 3/11. Now you've updated that, that forecast, really tracking after the COVID-19 really kicked in. Can you explain what we're seeing here in this chart? >> Yeah, no problem. The last time we spoke, we were around an N or sample size of about 1000. And we were right around that zero percent growth rate. One of the unique things that we've done is we've left this survey open. And so what that allows us to do is really track the impact on annual IP growth, essentially daily. And so as things have progressed, as you look at that blue line, you can really see the growth rate has continued to trend downwards. And as of just a day or two ago, we're now below zero. And so I think because of what's occurring right now, the overall current climate continues to slightly deteriorate. You're seeing that in a lot of the CIOs responses. >> If you bring that slide back up Andrew, I want to just sort of stay on this for a second. What I really like about what you guys are doing is you're essentially bringing event analysis in this. So if you see that blue line, you see on 3/13, a national emergency was declared and that's really when the blue line started to decline. What ETR has done is kind of reset that, reset the data since 3/13. Because it's now a more accurate reflection of what's actually happening happening in the market. Notice in the upper right, it says the US approved... The Senate last night approved a stimulus package. Actually, they're calling it an Aid Package. It's really not a stimulus package. It's an aid package that they're injecting to help. A number of our workers actually sounds like existing workers and small businesses and even large businesses like Boeing. Boeing was up significantly yesterday powering the Dow and potentially airlines. As you can see ETR is going to continue to monitor the impact, and roll this out. Really ETR is the only company that I know of anyway, that can track this stuff on a daily basis. So Sagar, that event analysis is really key, and you're going to be watching the impact of this stimulus slash aid packet. >> Yeah, so here's what we're doing on that chart. If you look at that yellow line again, effectively what you're seeing is, if we remove the first I think six or seven 100 respondents that took the survey and start tracking how budgets are changing as a 3/13, that's when the US declared a national emergency. We can recalculate the growth rate. And we can see it's around... It's almost negative one and a half. And so the beauty of doing this, really polling daily, is it allows us to be just as dynamic, as a lot of these organizations are. I think one of the things we talked about the last time was some of these budget changes are going to be temporary. And organizations are figuring out what they're doing day by day. And a lot of that is dictated based on government actions. And so uniquely here, what we're able to do is kind of give people a range and also say, "based on these events, "this is how things are changing."" And so I think we think the first biggest event was on 3/13, where the US effectively declared a national emergency over COVID-19. And now what we're going to start tracking between today and over the weekend, and Monday is: Are people getting more positive? Is there no change? Or is there further deterioration because of this aid package that got passed this morning? >> Now I want to share with our audience. I've been down to ETR's headquarters in New York, it's staffed with a number of data scientists and statistical experts. The ends here are well over 1000. I think we're over 1100 now, is that correct? What is the end that we're at today? >> That's right. Yeah, we're we're pushing right over 1200. And we're going to expect a few more hundred respondents. The good thing is it's balanced, which is important. All these events that are occurring, we want to make sure that we have at least a few hundred more CIOs and IT executives answering. And so every week as we kind of continue to do some of these breaking analysis, there are going to be a few more hundred CIOs. And we'll really be able to zero in or hone in on what they're saying. The growth rate on the IT side, it's going to continue to fluctuate. It's going to continue to be dynamic over the next few weeks, but right now versus (murmurs). We are in negative territory now. >> I want to also explain I mean, the end is important. But in and of itself, it's not the be all end all, what's important about the end, the larger it is, the more cuts you can make. And I want to share... You guys have been doing this for the better part of a decade. And so you have firm level data. And you've got indicators and markers that you've tracked over the years. For example, one of the things that ETR tracks is Giant Public and Private GDP we call it. And that's for example, I'm not saying that, that Mars is one of the companies but Mars is a huge private company, UPS before they went public, huge private company. ETR tracks firm level data, they of course anonymize that, but they can see markers and trackers and trends, and probably have, I don't know dozens of those types of segments. So the bigger the end is, the more... The higher the end within those buckets, and the better the confidence interval. And you guys are experts at really digging into that in trying to understand and read the tea leaves. >> That's right. The key to this survey is, it's not anonymous, we know who is taking the survey. Now to your point, we do anonymize and aggregate it when we display those results. But one of the unique capabilities is we're able to see all of these trend lines. The entire drill down survey that we did on COVID-19 through the lenses of different verticals so we can take a look at industrials materials manufacturing, healthcare, pharma, airlines, delivery services, health, and all these other verticals and get a feel for which ones are deteriorating the most, which ones look stable. And, we talked about last week and it continues to remain true this week. And again, the ends have gone up on all these verticals on the supply chain side. Industrials, materials manufacturing, healthcare, pharma, they continue and they also anticipate to see these things in the next few months, broken supply chains and on the demand side, it's really retail consumer airlines delivery services. That's coming down quite substantial. And I think, based on what United and some of these other airlines have done these last few days in terms of cutting capacity, that's just a reflection of what we're seeing. >> Let's dig into the data a little bit more and bring up the next chart. Last week, we're about 40% actually, exactly 40% where that gray line that said: CIOs and IT practitioners said, "no change." They're like the budget of the green. The green was actually at about 20 21%. So it's slightly up now at 22%. And you can see, most of the the green is in that one to 10% range. And you can see in the left hand side, it's obviously changing. Now we're at 37% in the gray line, slightly up in the green, and a little bit more down and in the red. So take us through what's changed Sagar. >> Yeah, to reiterate what we were talking about last week, and then I'll kind of talk about some of the change is, I think the market and a lot of our clients, they were expecting the growth rate to be more negative. Last week when we talked about zero percent. The reason that, it wasn't more negative is because we saw all these organizations accelerating spend because they had to keep employees productive. They don't want to catastrophe in productivity. And so you saw this acceleration, as you mentioned earlier in the interview around Work From Home tools, like collaboration tools, increasing bandwidth on the VPN networking side, laptops, MDM, so forth and so on. That continues to hold true today. Again, if we use the same example that we talked about last week, (mumbles) organizations, they have 40 50 60,000 employees or more working from home. You have to be able to support these individuals and that's why we're actually seeing some organizations accelerate spend and the majority organizations even though they are declining spend, some of that is still being offset by having to spend more on what we're calling kind of this Work From Home infrastructure. But I will say this: you are seeing more organizations versus last week, which is why the growth rate has come down, moving more and more towards the negative buckets. Again, there is some offset there. But the offset we talked about last week, Work From Home infrastructure is not a one-for-one when it comes to taking down your IT budget, and that continues to hold true. >> Let's talk a little bit about some of the industries retail, airlines, industrials, pharma, healthcare, what are you seeing in terms of the industry impact, particularly when it relates to supply chains, but other industry data that went through? >> I think the biggest takeaway is that healthcare pharma, industry materials, manufacturing organizations, they've indicated the highest levels of broken supply chains today. And they think in three months from now, it's actually going to get worse. And so we spoke about this last time, I don't think this is going to be a V shaped recovery from the standpoint of things are going to get better in the next few weeks or the next month or two. CIOs are indicating that they expect conditions to worsen over the next three months on the supply chain side and even demand the ones that are getting hit the hardest on the retail consumer side airlines, delivery services, they are again indicating that they anticipate demand to be worse three months from now. The goal is to continue serving and pulling these individuals over the next few weeks and months and to see if we can get a better timeline as we get into two edge but for the next few months, conditions look like they're going to get worse. >> I want to highlight some of the industries and let's make some comments here. Retail... You guys called out retail airlines, delivery services, industrials, materials, manufacturing, pharma and healthcare, there's some of the highest impact. I'll just make a few comments here. I think retail really, this accelerates the whole digital transformation. We already saw this starting, I think you'll see further consolidation and some permanence in the way in which companies are pivoting to digital. Obviously, the big guys like Walmart and the like are competing very effectively with Amazon. But, there's going to be some more consolidation there. I would say potentially the same thing in airlines that really are closely watching what the government is going to do. But, do we need this this many airlines? Do we need all this capacity? Maybe yes, maybe no. So watching that. And of course, healthcare right now, as I said last week in the braking analysis, they're just too distracted right now to buy anything. And they're overwhelmed. Now, of course, pharma, they're manufacturing, so they've got disruptions in supply chain and obviously the business. But there could be an upside down the road as COVID-19 vaccines come to the market. >> On the upside, I think you kind of hit it, right on the nail. When you get these type of events that occur. Sometimes it speeds up digital transformation. one of the things that the team and I have been talking about internally is: this is not your father's Keep The Lights On strategy so to speak. Organizations are very focused on maintaining productivity versus significantly cutting costs. What does that mean? Maybe three to five years ago, if this had occurred, you would have seen a lot of infrastructure as a service platform, as a service... A lot of these cloud providers, you'd have seen those projects decline as organization spent more on on plan. And we're not seeing that. We're seeing continued elevated budgets on the Cloud side and Micron just reported this morning and again, cited strong demand on the Cloud and data center side. That just goes to show that organizations are trying to maintain productivity. They want to continue these IT roadmaps and they're going to cut budgets where they can, but it's not going to be on the Cloud side. >> You know what, that's a really important point. This is not post Y2K, not 2008, 2007, 2008, 2009 because we've, pretended but a 10 year bull market, companies are doing pretty well, balance sheets are generally strong. They somewhat in whether, it was used to stronger companies, whether they're so they're not focused right now anyway, on cut cut cut as it was in the last few downturns. Let's go into some of the vendor data and some of the sector data, Andrew if you'd bring up the next chart. What we're showing here is really comparing the the blue is the January survey to the current survey in the yellow, and you're seeing some of the sectors that are up taking. You've identified mobile device management, big data and Cloud, some of the productivity, you mentioned DocuSign, Adobe zoom, Citrix, even VMware with the desktop virtualization. We've talked about security, you've got marketing and LinkedIn, my LinkedIn inbound is going through the roof as people are probably signing up for a LinkedIn premium. Let's talk about this a little bit. What you're seeing... Help us interpret this data. >> Yeah, sure. One of the things that everybody wants to know is, okay, so Work From Home infrastructures getting more spend for the vendors that are benefiting the most. One of the unique things that we can do is because we're kind of collecting all the DNA, from a tech stack aside from these organizations, we can overlap, how they're spending on these vendors. And also with the data that they provide in terms of whether they are increasing or decelerating their IT budgets because of COVID-19. What you're looking at here, is we isolated to all of those organizations and customers that indicated that they're increasing their budgets because of COVID-19. Because of the Work From Home infrastructure. And what we're doing is we're then isolating to vendors that are getting the most upticks in spend. This actually really nicely aligns with a lot of the themes that we were talking about collaboration tools. You see that VMware, they're all right on the virtualization side, MDM with Microsoft. And you're seeing a lot of other vendors with Citrix and Zoom and Adobe. These are the ones that we think are going to benefit from this kind of Work From home infrastructure movement. And again, it's all very... It's not just the qualitative and the commentary. This is all analytics, we really went in and analyzed every single one of these organizations that were increasing their budgets and tried to pinpoint using different data analysis techniques, and to see which vendors were really getting the majority or the largest, pie of that span. >> We had Sanjay Poonen, who's the CEO of VMware on yesterday and he was very sensitive but not trying to hear as your ambulance chasing because obviously they do desktop virtualization and VDI big workload. At the same time. I think he was also being cautious because there's probably portions of their business that are going to get hit, Michael Dell similarly, I think he was quoted in CRN as saying, "hey, are we seeing momentum in our laptop "business in our mobile business?" But as you guys pointed out, the flip side of that is their on prem business is probably going to suffer somewhat. It's a kind of like the Work From Home is a partial offset, but it's not a total offset. You're seeing that with a lot of these companies. Obviously, Microsoft, AWS, a lot of the cloud companies are very well positioned, how about some of the guys that are going to get impacted? Obviously, as I said that the on-prem folks, you guys talked about earlier it's not your father's Keep Your Lights On strategy. Okay but this... You asked the question, is this a reprieve for the legacy guys? Not quite, was your conclusion. What did you mean by that? >> I think a lot of times when you have these sub-events, the clients a lot of the market think okay, "some of the legacy vendors are going to do well "because, we're in malicious times, "and we don't want to keep on this kind "of next generation strategy." We're not seeing that and to the point that you highlighted earlier. There are... Even though these companies like Dell, like Cisco, where they're seeing some products accelerate, there are products to your point that are not doing as well The desktops, right? As an example for Dell or the storage. On the negative side or the legacy side where we're just not seeing any traction, the IBM's the Oracle on-prem, Symantec, which got acquired by Broadcom, checkpoint MicroStrategy. And there's another half dozen other vendors that we're seeing where they are not capitalizing. There is no reprieve for these legacy names. And we don't anticipate them getting additional spend, because of this Work From Home infrastructure kind of movement. >> Let's unpack that a little bit. It's interesting Symantec and checkpoint in security, security you think would get an uplift there, but what you're seeing here is... Let me just tell the audience who you called out. Symantec Teradata MicroStrategy, NET app Checkpoint Oracle and IBM, and I know there are others. But I would say this: These are companies that are getting impacted in a big way by the Cloud. Particularly like Symantec and checkpoint. That's a Cloud security companies are actually probably still doing pretty well. You take Teradata, their data is getting impact by the Cloud from folks like Snowflake and Redshift, MicroStrategy a lot of modern BI coming out. NetApp here's a company that's embraced the Cloud, but the vast majority of the business changess to be on-prem. I think IBM and Oracle are interesting. They're somewhat different. Actually a lot different IBM has services exposure, and you guys call that out, particularly around outsourcing. At the same time, it's going to be interesting to see IBM is going to get a lot of resources. Going to be interesting to see if they start coming out with corona virus related services. So watching for that, and then Oracle, their whole story is, "okay, we got Gen 2 Cloud and Mission Critical in the Cloud, but they're on-prem businesses, I think clearly going to be affected here is kind of what you guys pointed out, and I would agree with your thoughts. >> I think what we're seeing is organizations they had a Cloud roadmap, and that roadmap is continuing. The one thing that is changing in some of that roadmap is we need to be able to support employees as they work from home as we achieve this roadmap. And so that's why we're not seeing a reprieve on the legacy side. But we are seeing upticks and spin where we just wouldn't anticipate them right on maybe on Citrix, on Dell laptops, Adobe and a few other areas. Now, in terms of security side, some of the next gen security vendors like CrowdStrike APi, which is an MFA, those vendors are doing well. It makes sense, where you have more people working from home, you have more devices that are connecting to data applications. Just a component itself. And so you would expect spend to continue going up as you need more authentication, more Endpoint Protection. Cisco Meraki they do Cloud Networking. That piece is looking very good, even though Hardware networking is not looking very good at all. The Cloud Networking is looking good, which again makes sense, as you're increasing bandwidth on that side. >> Definitely stories of two sides of that coin. >> That's right >> I want to... Andrew, if you want to... If you wouldn't mind bringing up the next job, we're going to go back to the first one that we showed you with the time series. This is a very important point. Again, we can't stress it enough. We want to understand the impact of the stimulus or aid package. And ETR is going to continue to track that. What can we expect from you guys over the next week or so? >> The goal is to determine whether or not the stimulus is having an impact on how people are responding to our survey as a relates to how they're changing their budgets. The next four or five days, if we start seeing an uptick in this yellow and blue lines here, I think that's a positive. I think that shows that people are kind of wrapping their heads around, great government is taking action here. There is a roadmap in place to help us get out of this. But if the line continues coming down, it just may be that the last few weeks or the last month or so, there was just so much damage. There's not really... There's no coming back from this at least in the near term. So we are kind of watching out for that. >> Well, the Fed is definitely active. >> They're doing right what they can, they're pushing liquidity into the marketplace. People think out of bullets. I don't agree with the Fed. Fed has a quite a bit of of headroom and some dry powder, (murmurs) which is awesome. But the Fed itself, can't do it. You needed to have this fiscal stimulus. So we're excited to see that come to market. I think what I would say to our audiences, my concern is uncertainty. The markets don't like uncertainty and right now there's a lot of uncertainty. If you saw the piece on medium of The Hammer And The Dance it lays out some scenarios about what could happen to the healthcare system. You see people who say, "hey, we should shut down for 10 weeks." The president saying, "hey, we want "to get back to work by by April." The big concern that I have is: okay, maybe we can stamp it out in the near term and get back to work by late April, early May. But then what happens? Are people going to start traveling again? Are people going to start holding events again? And I think there's going to be some real question marks around that. That uncertainty I think, is something that we obviously have to watch. I think there is light at the end of the tunnel, when you look at China and some of the other things that are happening around the world, but we still don't know how long that tunnel is. I'll give you final thoughts before we wrap. >> I think and that's the biggest thing here is the uncertainty, which is why we're doing a lot of this event analysis. We're trying to figure out: after each one of these big events, is there more certainty in people's responses? And just we were talking about, sectors and verticals and vendors that are not doing well. Because the uncertainty we're seeing a lot of down ticks and spend amongst outsource IT and IT consulting vendors. And as long as the uncertainty continues, you're going to see more and more IT projects frozen, less and less spend on those outsource IT and IT consulting vendors and others. And until there's something really in place here where people feel comfortable, you're going to probably see budgets remain where they are, which right now they're negative. >> Folks as we said last week, Sagar and I, ETR is committed, theCUBE is committed to keep you updated on a regular basis. Right now on a weekly cadence. As we have new information, we will bring it to you. Sagar, thanks so much for coming on and supporting us. >> You're welcome and thanks for having me again. >> You're welcome. Thank you for watching this CUBE Insights powered by ETR. And remember all these breaking analysis available on podcast, go to etr.plus that's where all the action is in terms of the survey work. siliconangle.comm covers these breaking analysis and I published weekly on wikibond.com. Thanks for watching everybody. Stay safe. And we'll see you next time.