>> From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's Cube Insights, powered by ETR. Today is November 8, 2019 and I'd like to address one of the most important topics in the minds of a lot of executives. I'm talking about CEOs, CIOs, Chief Information Security Officers, Boards of Directors, governments and virtually every business around the world. And that's the topic of cyber security. The state of cyber security has changed really dramatically over the last 10 years. I mean, as a cyber security observer I've always been obsessed with Stuxnet, which the broader community discovered the same year that theCUBE started in 2010. It was that milestone that opened my eyes. Think about this. It's estimated that Stuxnet cost a million dollars to create. That's it. Compare that to an F-35 fighter jet. It costs about $85-$100 million to build one. And that's on top of many billions of dollars in R&D. So Stuxnet, I mean, it hit me like a ton of bricks. That the future of war was all about cyber, not about tanks. And the barriers to entry were very, very low. Here's my point. We've gone from an era where thwarting hacktivists was our biggest cyber challenge to one where we're now fighting nation states and highly skilled organized criminals. And of course, cyber crime and monetary theft is the number one objective behind most of these security breaches that we see in the press everyday. It's estimated that by 2021 cyber crime is going to cost society $6 trillion in theft, lost productivity, recovery costs. I mean, that's just a staggeringly large number. It's even hard to fathom. Now, the other C-change is how organizations have had to respond to the bad guys. It used to be pretty simple. I got a castle and the queen is inside. We need to protect her, so what do we do? We built a mote, put it around the perimeter. Now, think of the queen as data. Well, what's happened? The queen has cloned herself a zillion times. She's left the castle. She's gone up to the sky with the clouds. She's gone to the edge of the kingdom and beyond. She's also making visits to machines and the factories and hanging out with the commoners. She's totally exposed. Listen, by 2020, there's going to be hundreds of billions of IP addresses. These are going to be endpoints and phones, TVs, cameras, tablets, automobiles, factory machines, and all these represent opportunities for the bad guys to infiltrate. This explosion of endpoints that I'm talking about is created massive exposures, and we're seeing it manifest itself in the form of phishing, malware, and of course the weaponization of social media. You know, if you think that 2016 was nuts, wait 'til you see how the 2020 presidential election plays out. And of course, there's always the threat of ransomware. It's on everybody's minds these days. So I want to try to put some of this in context and share with you some insights that we've learned from the experts on theCUBE. And then let's drill into some of the ETR data and assess the state of security, the spending patterns. We're going to try to identify some of those companies with momentum and maybe some of those that are a little bit exposed. Let me start with the macro and the challenged faced by organization and that's complexity. Here's Robert Herjavec on theCUBE. Now, you know him from the Shark Tank, but he's also a security industry executive. Herjavec told me in 2017 at the Splunk.com Conference that he thought the industry was overly complex. Let's take a look and listen. >> I think that the industry continues to be extremely complicated. There's a lot of vendors. There's a lot of products. The average Fortune 500 company has 72 security products. There's a stat that RSA this year, that there's 1500 new security start-ups every year. Every single year. How are they going to survive? And which ones do you have to buy because they're critical and provide valuable insights? And which ones are going to be around for a year or two and you're never going to hear about again? So it's a extremely challenging complex environment. >> So it's that complexity that had led people like Pat Gelsinger to say security is a do-over, and that cyber security is broken. He told me this years ago on theCUBE. And this past VM World we talked to Pat Gelsinger and remember, VMware bought Carbon Black, which is an endpoint security specialist, for $2.1 billion. And he said that he's basically creating a cloud security division to be run by Patrick Morley, who is the Carbon Black CEO. Now, many have sort of questioned and been skeptical about VMware's entrance into the space. But here's a clip that Pat Gelsinger shared with us on theCUBE this past VM World. Let's listen and we'll come back and talk about it. >> And this move in security, I am just passionate about this, and as I've said to my team, if this is the last I do in my career is I want to change security. We just not are satisfying our customers. They shouldn't put more stuff on our platforms. >> National defense issues, huge problems. >> It's just terrible. And I said, if it kills me, right, I'm going to get this done. And they says, "It might kill you, Pat." >> So this brings forth an interesting dynamic in the industry today. Specifically, Steven Smith, the CISO of AWS, at this year's Reinforce, which is their security conference, Amazon's big cloud security conference, said that this narrative that security is broken, it's just not true, he said. It's destructive and it's counterproductive. His and AWS's perspective is that the state of cloud security is actually strong. Kind of reminded me of a heavily messaged State of the Union address by the President of the United States. At the same time, in many ways, AWS is doing security over. It's coming at it from the standpoint of a clean slate called cloud and infrastructure as a surface. Here's my take. The state of security in this union is not good. Every year we spend more, we lose more, and we feel less safe. So why does AWS, the security czar, see if differently? Well, Amazon uses this notion of a shared responsibility security model. In other words, they secure the S3 buckets, maybe the EC2 infrastructure, not maybe, the EC2 infrastructure. But it's up to the customer to make sure that she is enforcing the policies and configuring systems that adhere to the EDIX of the corporation. So I think the shared security model is a bit misunderstood by a lot of people. What do I mean by that? I think sometimes people feel like well, my data's in the cloud, and AWS has better security than I do. Here I go, I'm good. Well, AWS probably does have better security than you do. Here's the problem with that. You still have all these endpoints and databases and file servers that you're managing, and that you have to make sure comply with your security policies. Even if you're all on the cloud, ultimately, you are responsible for securing your data. Let's take a listen to Katie Jenkins, the CISO of Liberty Mutual, on this topic and we'll come back. >> Yeah, so the shared responsibility model is, I think that's an important speaking point to this whole ecosystem. At the end of the day, Liberty Mutual, our duty is to protect policyholder data. It doesn't matter if it's in the cloud, if it's in our data centers, we have that duty to protect. >> It's on you. >> All right, so there you have it from a leading security practitioner. The cloud is not a silver bullet. Bad user behavior is going to trump good security every time. So unfortunately the battle goes on. And here's where it gets tricky. Security practitioners are drowning in a sea of incidents. They have to prioritize and respond to, and as you heard Robert Herjavec say, the average large company has 75 security products installed. Now, we recently talked to another CISO, Brian Lozada, and asked him what's the number one challenge for security pros. Here's what he said. >> Lack of talent. I mean, we're starving for talent. Cyber security's the only field in the world with negative unemployment. We just don't have the actual bodies to actually fill the gaps that we have. And in that lack of talent CISOs are starving. We're looking for the right things or tools to actually patch these holes and we just don't have it. Again, we have to force the industry to patch all of those resource gaps with innovation and automation. I think CISOs really need to start asking for more automation and innovation within their programs. >> So bottom line is we can't keep throwing humans at the problem. Can't keep throwing tools at the problem. Automation is the only way in which we're going to be able to keep up. All right, so let's pivot and dig in to some of the ETR data. First, I want to share with you what ETR is saying overall, what their narrative looks like around spending. So in the overall security space, it's pretty interesting what ETR says, and it dovetails into some of the macro trends that I've just shared with you. Let's talk about CIOs and CISOs. ETR is right on when they tell me that these executives no longer have a blank check to spend on security. They realize they can't keep throwing tools and people at the problem. They don't have the bodies, and as we heard from Brian Lozada. And so what you're seeing is a slowdown in the growth, somewhat of a slowdown, in security spending. It's still a priority. But there's less redundancy. In other words, less experimentation with new vendors and less running systems in parallel with legacy products. So there's a slowdown adoption of new tools and more replacement of legacy stuff is what we're seeing. As a result, ETR has identified this bifurcation between those vendors that are very well positioned and those that are losing wallet share. Let me just mention a few that have the momentum, and we're going to dig into this data in more detail. Palo Alto Networks, CrowdStrike, Okta, which does identity management, Cisco, who's coming at the problem from its networking strength. Microsoft, which recently announced Sentinel for Azure. These are the players, and some of them that are best positioned, I'll mention some others, from the standpoint spending momentum in the ETR dataset. Now, here's a few of those that are losing momentum. Checkpoint, SonicWall, ArcSight, Dell EMC, which is RSA, is kind of mixed. We'll talk about that a little bit. IBM, Symantec, even FireEye is seeing somewhat higher citations of decreased spending in the ETR surveys and dataset. So there's a little bit of a cause for concern. Now, let's remember the methodology here. Every quarter ETR asks are you green, meaning adopting this vendor as new or spending more? Are you neutral, which is gray, are you spending the same? Or are you red, meaning that you're spending less or retiring? You subtract the red from the green and you get what's called a net score. The higher the net score, the better. So here's a chart that shows a ranking of security players and their net scores. The bars show survey data from October '18, July '19, and October '19. In here, you see strength from CrowdStrike, Okta, Twistlock, which was acquired by Palo Alto Networks. You see Elastic, Microsoft, Illumio, the core, Palo Alto Classic, Splunk looking strong, Cisco, Fortinet, Zscaler is starting to show somewhat slowing net score momentum. Look at Carbon Black. Carbon Black is showing a meaningful drop in net score. So VMware has some work to do. But generally, the companies to the left are showing spending momentum in the ETR dataset. And I'll show another view on net score in a moment. But I want to show a chart here that shows replacement spending and decreased spending citations. Notice the yellow. That's the ETR October '19 survey of spending intentions. And the bigger the yellow bar, the more negative. So Sagar, the director of research at ETR, pointed this out to me, that, look at this. There are about a dozen companies where 20%, a fifth of the customer base is decreasing spend or ripping them out heading into the year end. So you can see SonicWall, CA, ArcSight, Symantec, Carbon Black, again, a big negative jump. IBM, same thing. Dell EMC, which is RSA, slight uptick. That's a bit of a concern. So you can see this bifurcation that ETR has been talking about for awhile. Now, here's a really interesting kind of net score. What I'm showing here is the ETR data sorted by net score, again, higher is better, and shared N, which is the number of shared accounts in the survey, essentially the number of mentions in that October survey with 1,336 IT buyers responded. So how many of that 1,300 identified these companies? So essentially it's a proxy for the size of the install base. So showing up on both charts is really good. So look, CrowdStrike has a 62% net score with a 133 shared account. So a fairly sizable install base and a very high net score. Okta, similar. Palo Alto Networks and Splunk, both large, continue to show strength. They got net scores of 44% and 313 shared N. Fortinet shows up in both. Proofpoint. Look at Microsoft and Cisco. With 521 and 385 respectively on the right hand side. So big install bases with very solid net scores. Now look at the flip side. Go down to the bottom right to IBM. 132 shared accounts with a 14.4% net score. That's very low. Check Point similarly. Same with Symantec. Again, bifurcation that ETR has been citing. Really stark in this chart. All right, so I want to wrap. In some respects from a practitioner perspective, the sky erectus is falling. You got increased attack surface. You've got exploding number of IP addresses. You got data distributed all over the place, tool creep. You got sloppy user behavior, overwork security op staff, and a scarcity of skills. And oh, by the way, we're all turning into a digital business, which is all about data. So it's a very, very dangerous time for companies. And it's somewhat chaotic. Now, chaos, of course, can mean cash for cyber security companies and investors. This is still a very vibrant space. So just by the way of comparison and looking at some of the ETR data, check this out. What I'm showing is companies in two sectors, security and storage, which I've said in previous episodes of breaking analysis, storage, and especially traditional storage disk arrays are on the back burner spending wise for many, many shops. This chart shows the number of companies in the ETR dataset with a net score greater than a specific target. So look, security has seven companies with a 49% net score or higher. Storage has one. Security has 18 above 39%. Storage has five. Security has 31 companies in the ETR dataset with a net score higher than 30%. Storage only has nine. And I like to think of 30% as kind of that the point at which you want to be above that 30%. So as you can see, relatively speaking, security is an extremely vibrant space. But in many ways it is broken. Pat Gelsinger called it a do-over and is affecting a strategy to fix it. Personally, I don't think one company can solve this problem. Certainly not VMware, or even AWS, or even Microsoft. It's too complicated, it's moving too fast. It's so lucrative for the bad guys with very low barriers to entry, as I mentioned, and as the saying goes, the good guys have to win every single day. The bad guys, they only have to win once. And those are just impossible odds. So in my view, Brian Lozada, the CISO that we interviewed, nailed it. The focus really has to be on automation. You know, we can't just keep using brute force and throwing tools at the problem. Machine intelligence and analytics are definitely going to be part of the answer. But the reality is AI is still really complicated too. How do you operationalize AI? Talk to companies trying to do that. It's very, very tricky. Talk about lack of skills, that's one area that is a real challenge. So I predict the more things change the more you're going to see this industry remain a game of perpetual whack a mole. There's certainly going to be continued consolidation, and unquestionably M&A is going to be robust in this space. So I would expect to see continued storage in the trade press of breaches. And you're going to hear scare tactics by the vendor community that want to take advantage of the train wrecks. Now, I wish I had better news for practitioners. But frankly, this is great news for investors if they can follow the trends and find the right opportunities. This is Dave Vellante for Cube Insights powered by ETR. Connect with me at David.Vellante@siliconangle.com, or @dvellante on Twitter, or please comment on what you're seeing in the marketplace in my LinkedIn post. Thanks for watching. Thank you for watching this breaking analysis. We'll see you next time. (energetic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering InterConnect 2017. Brought to you by IBM. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. Here live at the Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas for theCUBE's three-day exclusive coverage of IBM InterConnect 2017. I'm John Furrier. My co-host, Dave Vellante. Our next guest here is Greg Pepper, head of cloud security architects at Check Point Software Technologies. >> You got it. Good afternoon, gentlemen. >> Welcome, welcome to theCUBE. So, security obviously is big. You're seeing compel all the networks, every company out there is buying security, so there's been a security sprawl. But now you guys have a stock that's trading at a very high, 52-week high. Congratulations. >> Yeah, thank you. You know, some people forget about us. We've been doing this for 24 years, we've been the leaders in this industry for over two decades, but sometimes, we're the best kept secret in the industry. >> Unleash some of those secrets here. I know you guys probably can't go into too much secret sauce as a public company, but what's the software secret? Obviously, relationship with IBM is part of why you're here, but what's the Check Point secret sauce right now? >> I think first and foremost, we've built upon a legacy for the last 20 years. We didn't just acquire technology through acquisition, duct tape and paper clips and call it an architecture for our customers. We've built upon a consistent common platform building on our core strengths. I think the second thing that really differentiates us from some of the other guys you mentioned is our commitment and focus to security first. We are a security company end to end, and everything we do is built off of those tenets. And especially with the growth in security in the data center, its migration to cloud, the industry has kind of come back around to software, and though for a while we delivered hardware appliance to customers, 'cause it was the preferred consumption model, when customers go to the cloud, whether it's SoftLayer, Azure, Amazon, Google, and others, we don't have hardware to bring with you, so you need a software defined security strategy to play in the cloud today. >> What is that software defined security strategy? What's the hottest product that you guys have that's working best? >> Everything we have built on our core competencies of management and the gateways themselves. But these days, it's not enough to just be a firewall vendor, so advanced threat prevention, the ability to both prevent and detect malware from getting on the network, rather than just alerting you that something bad happened. We're providing additional access controls with data awareness. I don't need to plug into the network to tell you people are going to YouTube, Netflix, but what's the information about your organization that's being posted out there? Those are the interesting things that we can help differentiate and alert customers to what's going on. >> So, the perimeter's, with the cloud, all these APIs, microservices coming down the pike with cloud, that's the challenge. I mean, this whole idea of being data and software focused. How do you guys play in that world, and what's this focus there? >> The biggest change is moving away from the traditional management architecture to one that's driven by code. These days especially in the cloud to be agile with dev-ops, you have to have security be able to be deployed, programmed, managed, and monitored all through an API, and this is something over the last few years we've enhanced our products to enable automatic deployment in the cloud providers, automatic management, and also integration with people like IBM QRadar in a highly automated way. >> The big discussion in the last couple years in security has been, hey, it's not enough just to dig a moat around the castle. The queen wants to leave her castle, so we've got to, security's got to be everywhere, it's got to follow the data, and also response is another major focus of discussion, we've got to shift spending there. How has that impacted, first of all, you buy that, second of all, how has that impacted your business and your strategy? >> We definitely do agree, which is why as part of our end to end security strategy, the laptops, the desktops, the mobile devices is an area of increased focus for us. Where really just having the traditional perimeter alone is not adequate. The second thing we started to talk about is the ability to move into the cloud. A lot of the competitive solutions out there don't play as well in the cloud because they're dependent on proprietary hardware. If you're a vendor that has custom ASICs, well, you don't have those ASICs when you go to the cloud. Whereas for us, our software defined security strategy, when we go to Amazon, Azure, SoftLayer, and other cloud providers, 100% of our core capabilities moves along with us. >> Talk that through the value proposition and the customer impact. So, it's more flexibility. Is it lower cost, is it speed, is it better response? >> I believe the primary driver for cloud adoption is agility, not always cost savings, although in some cases that is the case. However, the ability to grow and shrink on demand. In the past, our traditional enterprise customers would consume technology for their max resources. If I'm a large department store, I need to be able to handle Black Friday. Well, that's one week a year that you need that peak utilization. That ability to scale up and scale down is one of the major things driving people to the cloud. Well, security has to have the same model. We have to be able to automatically deploy, scale up for those large-scale events, but then also come back down to an average run-time use to help customers save money. >> How about analytics? How does that play into the security business? >> Yeah, I mean look, the whole reason we exist is to give interesting information for technology to be able to chew on, and the ability to provide the forensic auditing accounting for access controls and for our threat prevention, whether it's on the perimeter, in the cloud, in the core, on mobile and end-point devices, there's a reason after 20 years we've been the lead in the industry is 'cause we provide the best forensics data and integration with all the major leading SIM vendors out there. >> Yeah, the 20-year stair with Check Point. Obviously, the company's evolved a lot since then. Talk about the relationship with IBM, obviously we're here at IBM InterConnect, what are you guys doing with IBM? >> IBM's one of our best partners for over the last two decades. For over 18 years now, they've been a customer, a reseller, and a managed services security partner, so there's multiple organization within IBM that have relationship with Check Point to help secure the corporate assets, customer projects in our managed data centers, or even just purely security managed services. One of the exciting projects that we've been working on that was demonstrated at the security booth was an automated security deployment for the hybrid cloud, where the IBM team worked with us to help take security, automatically roll it out into Amazon and Azure, but also bring it into their MSS environment, their managed security services with zero touch, and they're able to provision, have it managed, monitored, and ready to rock and roll in less than 30 seconds. >> And they were doing that all in software? >> Greg: 100% in software, 100% in code with no human intervention. >> So take us through some of those use cases going forward. As you go talk to customers with IBM or on your own, you write on a lot of white board, I can imagine, so what are some of the white board conversations you're having, 'cause security architecture's one of these, kind of a moving train right now. What are some of the patterns you're seeing right now? >> First and foremost, there's a lot of cloud novice, this is new for all of us. So in the walk-jog-run mentality, we all need to come up with the basic terminology and fundamentals so we can have a more advanced conversation. Once we provide the basic knowledge transfer, the second step is how can you help me lift this legacy application and move it to a cloud-centric application, yet still give me the same levels of security and visibility, 'cause I can't go to the board and tell 'em, "Oh, we screwed up. "We moved to the cloud, and now our apps are not secure." As a matter of fact, for our largest customers, the most critical applications will not move to the cloud unless they have a clearly defined security strategy in place. >> So you lay out those parameters up front, then you kind of walk through it, I'd say crawl, walk, run, then jog. >> Greg: Absolutely. >> However you had it, but I mean, lot of people are kind of crawling, but now also, multi-cloud's a big theme here. So now, you're looking at multiple clouds, and some workloads might make sense for cloud one, two, or three depending on the workloads, but some stay on prem. >> 100%. >> And now you got the true private cloud trend where I'm going to have a cloud-like environment on prem. That's cool, development environment looks the same as the cloud, but I got multiple clouds. How do you guys deal with the multi-cloud and this idea of being consistent on prem and on cloud? >> First and foremost, being a software defined gateway, we have this unique capabilities that's the same on premise, Amazon, Azure, Google, SoftLayer, and others as well. Since we're not dependent upon hardware, we have consistent capabilities across all the clouds. The second thing I want to add is from a management perspective, we've built, excuse me, tight integrations with all the data center and cloud providers, so we're able to trust Amazon, VMware, Cisco, OpenStack, Google, and others and real-time integrate their applications and objects and metadata into our security policies, further tightening the integration and automation capabilities between those cloud providers. >> So, you're actively working with all the clouds to integrate in tightly to manage the security. You become the Switzerland for-- >> Look, we were the first of the major security vendors to both be in Amazon and Azure. We were the first achieve Amazon security competency. We were the first to support basic things like clustering and scale set support, which has been a very common deployment in the cloud as well. We've been in this cloud game for the last seven or eight years now, or as I like to joke, we've cloud up-times longer than some of my competitors have been in business. >> Microsoft was actually down on the cloud. We published a report today on siliconangle.com. Three cloud vendors down in a week. I'll give Amazon a little week there, but it's still, you're still going to see some these bumps in the road, but security, you can't have bumps, you got to be rock solid. >> The thing with today in cloud, whether it's the application, the servers, the storage and securities, you have to anticipate for that total failure situation. Heaven forbid, what happens if an east region went down? Case in point, when Amazon had their storage outage, Netflix was not interrupted at all. Now, other organizations that were only deployed in a single region, we were impacted. This is where, I think from an application architecture, one, we have to think beyond single region, single cloud provider. We have to anticipate the total catastrophic failure and how does our business continuity and disaster recovery work. And then, security has to be an integral portion of that. We can't bolt it on after the fact, it's got to be part of the foundation. >> Greg, great point. And by having software, gives you so much flexibility, I love that hybrid cloud example, but I want to get your thoughts on what you said earlier about lift and shift. That seems to be the parlance of the generation. It used to be rip and replace on the enterprise side, but that's not as easy as it is. To your point, you can't just throw it to the cloud, you might have some gaps. As people look to lift and shift, which I always say is be careful, you got to have some concerns. How do you advise your customers when you say, "Hey, we're lifting and shifting to the cloud." >> For those people, I say don't bother. Right, if I'm going to move the same applications and same products and processes from my private data center to the cloud, why bother? If we're not taking advantage of the agility, elasticity, automation, and all the benefits that clouds has to offer, companies should be building new cloud-ready applications for the cloud. We should not just be lifting our legacy applications and like for like moving them to the cloud, 'cause we're not going to get the benefit in return on investment. >> And it's risky, too, by the way. I would agree with you. So, net new applications, no brainer. If the cloud's available, why not? >> Absolutely. >> Let's go back to the workload. Some clouds have better, like analytics use case is a great cloud, just throw IOT data into Amazon or Azure or Office 365 is Azure, and Amazon gets Kinesis, good stuff, and you've got Bluemix over here. You're starting to see that swim lanes of the different vendors. How do you view the differentiation between the vendors, and how do you advise customers? "Hey Greg, I don't know which cloud to go to. "What's your advice?" >> First and foremost, there's pros and cons to everyone's offering. >> It's kind of like Red Sox, Yankees, you know. It's like trying to-- >> Well, let's stop right there, Yankees for sure. >> Dave: You think? >> Absolutely. >> Dave: You really think? >> Well, maybe not in 2017, but-- >> Who's the Yankees, Microsoft or AWS? >> Microsoft probably the Yankees right now. Then again, from my perspective as a Red Sox fan, I'd say it's a tough call. >> (muttering) is the Yankee-killer. Anywhere, let's... >> Alright, go back. >> We digress. >> What I was I going to make a comment of is look for the adjunct services behind the basics, beyond the basic storage, compute and networking services that everybody has as kind of table stakes. For example, if you're someone who's a very heavy Microsoft Office 365 SharePoint user, you're using their business application suite, well, probably migration to Azure is a more natural transition, right. People who are similarly in the Google environment and using the Google suite of applications, it's a benefit to moving the applications there. And to be honest, people who are purely just into the raw compute horsepower and probably the most mature and largest cloud platform, well, Amazon has probably got a five-year head start on the rest of the guys. So, we try not to sit here and determine which of the three clouds is better, 'cause for us, we play in all of them, and our security footprint has to be consistent across all of them. I'll share with you an anecdotal use case from one of my retail customers is building a commerce platform in AWS. But all the corporate applications are moving to Azure, and separately now, they're looking at Google for other global applications as well. So for them, they're going to be in all three cloud providers, just with different applications finding more natural homes. >> Justin Youngblood was just on. He said, the IBM data said 70% of all organizations, or 70% of the organizations have three or more clouds, infrastructure clouds, right. >> I would believe that. >> Back to the security, I mean, the market's booming. In a way, it's unfortunate that the market's booming is 'cause it's such a huge problem that doesn't end. It's great for you. Each year, we look back at last year and say, okay, we feel more secure, and we don't. So, what's happening in the market? Are we finally going to get a handle on sort of how to deal with this, or is it just always going to be this good guy, bad guy, leap-frogging sort of endless loop? >> The big change these days are the bad guys are pros. This is their full-time job, they're very well funded, trained, and able. >> Dave: And they only have to succeed once. >> And remember, the cost of defense is exponentially higher than the cost of offense. So what it costs my banks and hospitals to secure their environment is 10 to 100-fold over what it costs the bad guys, either in the U.S. or some other nation-state, to attack those environments. I think the biggest challenge that most of our customers face, to be honest, is technology saturation. They've bought every product known to mankind. As I like to joke, for every threat, there's an app for that, and most of our customers have bought all three of them. But then they struggle operationally with the technology, and this is more of a people and a process issue than it is a product issue. There's a lot of great technology out there, ours and other vendors as well, but if it's not implemented and maintained properly, those potentially represent the weakest links. >> And there's new threats emerging, ransomware, for instance, is to your point they're overmanned, and the cost to even compare, or defend against that, but they're already hacked. They'll pay the ransom in bit coin to get their stuff back. >> And look, it's cheaper, quicker, and faster to maybe just whack the system and try and do some forensics clean-up than deploy a next generation end-point to try and detect and mitigate against ransomware, disk encryption, or other bots that may get on the end-points themselves. >> But I almost feel like the mitigation, I mean, you've got to have perimeter security, obviously, and continue to invest in that, but I feel like you're never going to stop somebody from penetrating your organization. What's the status on average, the company's penetrated for 200 and whatever end days before they know? 220, 250, whatever number you want. There's got to be more investment in remediating, responding, managing that complexity. And so, I guess the answer to my earlier question was, well, not any time soon. We're going to have to continue to invest in new approaches, new methodologies to deal with this inundation of data, which isn't going to subside. >> Well, but part of it too is in the past, most of the security controls that companies invested in, they put at the perimeter. So, they're overprotecting on the perimeter, but now, the attacks are coming in through the side door. Spearfishing attempts >> Dave: Or internally. >> They're coming in from laptops or mobile devices that leave the organization and come back in, and since most customers lack internal segmentation, a very small infection becomes a very big problem very quickly. So, a lot of customers now are trying to figure out how do I take what I've done in the perimeter and treat my data center, my campus as untrusted, segment and silo and create smaller fault-isolation domains so that heaven forbid there is a breach or an outbreak, it's contained to a smaller subzone, rather than, look at the Target situation, which came in from an HVAC vendor, moved into a payment system, and then exfiltrated millions of credit card records. >> And, or, and not or, but, and techniques to allow the response to focus on the things that matter, and like you said, organizations, CCOS, are inundated with technology, and they don't know necessarily which threats to go deal with. They've got so much data, and to the extent that they can narrow down those high value threats, that's going to help solve the problem. That's why I was asking the question about analytics before. >> That's where I think the partnership with IBM is so important for us, right, 'cause both what they do with Watson and big data analytics and QRadar as well, it's one thing to just create a bunch of alerts, but for most customers, that's a lot of noise. Give me the interesting bits of information. I don't care about these 10 million alerts over the last week. What are the most critical things that my team needs to address right now? And those are the things that collectively IBM and Check Point help. >> How about the competitive landscape? And you guys are kickin' butt, you're well over a billion, what, $1.7 billion company, roughly? >> A little more, but yeah. >> A little more than that, almost a $20 billion market cap, which you said earlier, John, stocks almost at an all-time high, so obviously compete with Palo Alto. Do you compete with HPE, with ArcSight a little bit? I mean, that acquistion, they sort of, that's-- >> They jettisoned some of their core products that were competitive, like TippingPoint. They've kept some of their ArcSight and other big data analytics, the drive service and storage and services out there. But they're as much a partner as they are a competitor. >> Dave: They are? Okay. >> I mean, I would say the usual competitive suspects, some of the guys you mentioned, some of the big route switch vendors like a Cisco or a Juniper out there. Actually, we're in the end-point mobile space as well, which brings in the Symantec and McAfee and Kaspersky. >> And so, right, okay, so what's your big differentiation? >> I think first and foremost is that we have an enterprise management solution that goes from the mobile to the end-point to the cloud to the network. We do it all through a singular console. We have the most scalable security platform in the marketplace today, and to be honest, we have the best security solution out there, both in terms of the effectiveness as well as the manageability. >> Dave: And you're profitable and you're growing. I'm going to throw that in. >> Greg: We've been profitable since day one. >> Greg, thanks for coming onto theCUBE. We really appreciate, give you the final word on the segment as the outlook going forward. Obviously, all the cloud vendors, you work with them all, all trying to be enterprise-ready. >> Yes. >> And they're all, we're the enterprise cloud. Amazon's now the enterprise cloud, Google was flaunting it at Google Next, they got some work to do. IBM certainly is in the enterprise, Oracle's in the enterprise, Microsoft's in the enterprise. Enterprise readiness and the next few years as security evolves, what are the key table stakes that the cloud guys need to continue to work on, continue to invest in, continue to innovate? >> I think the first thing, and this is across all technology, not just cloud, is that interoperability is the new best of breed. All of our customers are going to have a couple of trusted partners. No one enterprise is single-vendor end to end. But we have to be able to play nicely in the sandox. So, whether it's working with Cisco or McAfee or Microsoft or Symantec, if I don't work well with the other investments my companies and customers have invested in, they're not going to have me around for very long. >> And that's the truth. And multi-cloud, and workloads will fit best, 'cause the SaaS also defines some of these big cloud vendors as well. Microsoft SaaS is Office 365, if you have Microsoft, that's going to be some things for ya. Greg, thanks so much, appreciate it. Great commentary with Check Point Software Technologies, talking security, head of architecture here. Greg Pepper, thanks for joining us. This is theCUBE, more live coverage here, day three coverage from theCUBE after this short break. (electronic keyboard music)

>> Live from the Walt Disney World Swan and Dolphin Resort in Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE, covering Splunk .conf2016. Brought to you by Splunk. Now, here are your hosts John Furrier and John Walls. >> And welcome back here on theCUBE. The flagship broadcast of SiliconANGLE TV where we extract a signal from the noise. We're live at conf2016 here in Orlando, Florida on the show floor. A lot of activity, a lot of excitement, a lot of buzz and a really good segment coming up for you here. Along with John Furrier, I'm John Walls and we're joined by two gentlemen from the Herjavec Group, Robert Herjavec. Good to see you, sir. >> Greetings. Thank you for having us. >> The CEO, and Atif Ghauri is Senior VP at Herjavec. Good to see you, sir. >> Yes. >> First off, Robert, congratulations. Newly married, your defense was down for a change. Congratulations on that. (laughter) >> Oh thank you. It was wonderful. It was a great wedding, lots of fun but casual and just a big party. >> Yeah, it was. Looked like, pictures were great. (laughter) People obviously know you from Shark Tank. But the Herjavec Group has been, really, laser focused on cyber security for more than a decade now. Tell us a little bit about, if you would, maybe just paint the broad picture of the group, your focus, and why you drilled down on cyber. >> Yeah, I've been in the security business for about 30 years. I actually helped to bring a product called CheckPoint to Canada firewalls, URL filtering, and that kind of stuff. And we started this company 12 years ago, and our vision was to do managed services. That was our vision. No other customer's vision, but our vision. And we thought we'd do $5 million in sales in our first year and we did $400000. The market just wasn't there. SIEM technology, log aggregation isn't what it is today. I mean, I think at the time, it was enVision. What was it called? >> Yeah, enVision. >> enVision. And then RSA bought them. That was really the first go-to-market SIEM. Then you had ArcSight and Q1. So our initial business became around log aggregation, security, writing parsers. And then over time it grew. It took us five years to get to $6 million in sales, and we'll do about $170 million this year. We went from a Canadian company to really a global entity. We do a lot of business in the States, UK, Australia, everywhere. >> But you're certainly a celebrity. We love havin' you on theCUBE, our little Shark Tank in and of itself. But you're also an entrepreneur, right? And you know the business, you've been in software, you've been in the tech business, so you're a tech athlete, as we say. This world's changing right now. And I'm certain you get a lot of pitches as entertainment meets business. But the fact that the entrepreneurial activity, certainly in the bay area and San Francisco, the Silicon Valley, where I live, and all around the world, is really active. Whether you call the programmer or culture or just the fact that the cloud is allowing people to start companies, you're seeing a surge in entrepreneurship in the enterprise. (laughs) Which is like, was boring in the past, you know? You just mentioned CheckPoint in the old days, but now it's surging. Your thoughts on the entrepreneurial climate? >> I dunno if the enterprise entrepreneurship element is surging. By the way, I'm going to say intrepreneur, just the way I say it. Cuban always makes fun of me. (laughter) We don't say it like that in America! I'm like, screw off! (laughter) >> That's how you say it! >> I want to say it the way I want to say it. >> Well, internal entrepreneurs, right? Is that what you mean by intrepreneurship? >> Well, no. I'm just, it's just the way I say it. >> It's a Canadian thing. >> But business to business enterprise, we've always been in the enterprise business. So we're seeing a lot of growth in that area, a lot of VC money's going into that area, because it's more, you know, you can measure that level of return and you can go and get those customers. But on our show, we're a bubble. We don't do a lot of tech deals like we're talking because it's boring TV. Tech people love tech, consumers love the benefit of tech. You know, no consumer opens up their iPhone and says, oh my gosh, I love the technology behind my iPhone. They just love their iPhone. And our show is really a consumer platform that is-- >> It's on cable TV, so it's got a big audience. So you got to hit the wide swath-- >> We're one of the highest-rated shows on network television. Eight years, three Emmys. You know, it's a big show now. And what we've all learned is, because Mark Cuban and I are tech guys, we used to look for stuff we know. We don't invest in stuff we know any more. We invest in slippers, ugly Christmas sweaters, food products, because if you can tap into that consumer base, you're good to go. >> So bottom line, has it been fun for you? I mean, the show has been great. I mean, obviously the awards have been great. Has it been fun for you? What's it been like, what's the personal feeling on being on the Shark Tank. >> You know, filming is fun, and hanging out is fun, and it's fun to be a celebrity at first. Your head gets really big and you get really good tables at restaurants. There's no sporting venue-- >> People recognize you. >> Yeah. >> You get to be on theCUBE. (laughter) >> I get be on theCUBE. >> Doesn't happen every day. >> You get to go everywhere. But after a while it gets pretty dry. But it really helps our brand. We compete, typically, against IBM, Verizon, and you know, the CEO of IBM, you're not going to see him selling his security. >> Well I know they're doin' a lot, spending a lot of cash on Watson, trying to get that to work, but that's a whole 'nother story. But let's get down and dirty on Splunk. You're here because you're doin' a talk. Give a quick take on what you're talking about, why are you here at .conf for Splunk? >> Yeah, we're doing a talk on data transformation. The world today is about data. And the amount of data points and access points and the internet of things, it's just exponential growth. The stat I always love, and Atif's heard it 1000 times is, there's roughly three billion people on the internet today, and there's roughly six billion or seven billion IP addresses. By 2020, according to the IPV Committee, there'll five, six billion people connected. And hundreds of trillions of IP addresses. >> And the IoT is going to add more surface area to security attacks. I mean, it used to be, the old days, in CheckPoint, the moat, the firewall, backdoor, frontdoor. >> The idea of the perimeter is gone now. There is no such thing as a perimeter any more, because everything you can access. So a lot of work in that area. And all of that comes to data and log aggregation. And what we've seen for years is that the SIEM vendors wanted to provide more analytics. But if you really think about it, the ultimate analytics engine is Splunk. And Splunk now, with their ESM module, is moving more into the security world and really taking away market share. So we're very excited by, we have a great relationship with the Splunk guys, we see nothing but future growth. >> And you're using Splunk and working with it with your customers? >> We do, we've been using Splunk for a while. We have a private cloud. Tell us a little bit about that. >> Yeah, so we eat our own dog food. So not only do we sell Splunk, but we also use it in-house. We've been usin' it for over five years, and it powers our analytics platform, which is a fancy way to say, reduces the noise from all the different clutter from all the IoT, from all the different type of alerts that are comin' in. Companies need a way to filter through all that noise. We use Splunk to solve that problem for us internally, and then, of course, we sell it and we manage it for Global 2000 customers, Fortune 100 companies all over the world. >> Tell us what about the role of data, 'cause data transformation has been a big buzzword it's a holistic message around businesses digitizing and getting digital assets in front of their customers. We have a big research division that does all of this stuff. By the end of the day, you know, the digitization business means you're going to have to go digital all the way. And role of data is not the old data warehousing days, where it's fenced away, pull it in, now you need data moving around, you need organic sharing of data, data's driving policies and new pattern recognitions for security. How do you guys see that evolving? How do you talk to your customers, because in a way, the old stuff can work if you use the data differently. We're seeing a pattern, like, hey, that's an algorithm I used 10 years ago. But now, with new data, that might be workable. What are some of the things that you're seeing now that customers are doing that you talk to that are leveraging data, like Splunk, in a new way? >> Well, that's really where Splunk adds so much value, because a friend of mine is the dean of USC. And he has a great saying, more data is not necessarily more information. And so, the mistake that we see customers making a lot is they're collecting the data, but they're not doing the right things with it. And that's really where Splunk and that level of granularity can add tremendous value, not just from logging, but from analytics and going upstream with it. >> Yeah, and also, to that point, it's just automation. There's too much data >> That's a great point. >> And it's only going to get bigger, right, based on that stat Robert rattled off. Now, we need some machine learning analytics to move it further. And all points aside, machine learning isn't where it needs to be right now. Today in the market, it still has a long way to go. I would call it a work in progress. But however, it's the promise, because there's too much data, and to secure it, to automate behavior, is really what what we're looking for. >> The example I saw is the innovation strategy's comin' to take, and they're growin' with mobility, growin' with cloud, increase the surface area, IoT. But the supervised areas of the enterprise were the doors, right? Lock the doors. And perimeter is now dead. So now you have an unsupervised environment and the enterprise at risk. Once the hackers get in, they're havin' their way. >> The internet is, like, a kindergarten playground where there are no rules and the teacher went home at lunch. (laughter) That is the internet. And kids are throwin' crap. >> And high school. I think it would be high school. Kindergarten through high school! >> And you have different-aged kids in there. >> It's chaos, bedlam! >> Very well said. The internet is chaos, but by nature, that's what we want the internet to be. We don't want to control the chaos because we limit our ability to communicate, and that's really the promise of the internet. It's not the responsibility of the internet to police itself, it's the responsibility of each enterprise. >> So what new things are happening? We're seeing successes. Certainly, we're reporting on companies that are being successful are the ones that are doing reverse of what was once done, or said differently, new ways of doing things. Throwin' out kind of tryin' to do a hybrid legacy approach to security, and seeing the new ways, new things, new better cat and mouse games, better honeypots, intelligent fabrics. What do you guys recommend to your customers and what do you see, in your talk, this digital transformation's definitely a real trend, and security is the catastrophic time bomb that's ticking for all customers. So that's, it dwarfs compliance, risk management, current... >> Well, I dunno if that's necessarily true, that it's a time bomb. You know, the number one driver for security, still, is compliance. We sell stuff people don't really want to buy. Nobody wakes up and the morning and says, yeah, I want to go spend another $5 million on security. They do it, frankly, because they have to. If none of their competitors were spending money on security, I don't think most enterprises would. I mean, whenever you have to do something because it's good to do, you have a limited up cycle. When you do something because there's a compliance reason to do it, or bad things happen to you, you're really going to do it. >> So you think there's consumer pressure, then, to have to do this, otherwise-- >> Interesting stat, the Wall Street Journal did a study and asked 1000 people on a street corner in New York if, for a hamburger, they will give away their social insurance number, their home number, and their name. 72% of people gave out that information freely. >> Better be a good hamburger. (laughs) >> Back to your point, though, I want to get a-- >> So I think consumers have an expectation of security, and how they police that is they simply go to somebody else. So if you're my retailer and you get breached, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to go next door. But I think that the average consumer's expectation is, security's your responsibility, not mine. >> Okay, so on the B to B side, let's get that. I wanted to push you on something I thought I kind of disagreed with. If compliance, I agree, compliance has been a big part of data governance and data management. >> Yeah, PCI has been the biggest driver in security in the last five years. >> No doubt. However, companies are now sharing data more with other companies. Financial institutions are sharing core data with other financial institutions, which kind of teases out the trend of, I'll give you some of my data to get, to fight the fraud detection market because it's a $1 trillion problem. So as you start to see points of growth where, okay, you start to see people go outside their comfort zone on compliance to share data. So we're tryin' to rationalize that. Your thoughts? I mean, is that an indicator? Do you see that as a trend, or, I mean, obviously locking down the data would be, you know. >> I think it's challenging. I mean, we were at the president's council on security last year at Stanford. And you know, President Obama got up there, made some passionate speech about sharing data. For the goodness of all of us, we need to share more data and be more secure. I got to tell you, you heard that speech and you're like, yeah baby, I'm going to share my data, we're all going to work together. Right after him, Tim Cook got up there (laughter) and said, I will never share my data with anybody in the government! And you heard him, and you're like, I am never sharing my data with anybody. >> Well there's the tension there, right? >> Well, this is a natural-- >> Natural tension between government and enterprise. >> Well, I think there's also a natural tension between enterprises. There's competitive issues, competitor pressures. >> Apple certainly is a great case. They hoard their data. Well, this is the dilemma, right? You want to have good policy, but innovation comes from experimentation. So it's a balancing act between what do you kind of do? How do you balance-- >> Yeah, it's a great time to be in our space. I mean, look at this floor. How many companies are here? Splunk is growing by 30%, the show itself, 30% per year. They're going to outgrow this venue next year and they're going to go, probably, Vegas or somebody. I think that's exciting. But these are all point products. The fastest-growing segment in the computer business is managed services, because the complexity in that world is overwhelming, and it's extremely fragmented. There's no interlinking. >> Talk about your business in there right now. What are you guys currently selling, how many employees do you have, what's the revenues like, what's the product mix? >> Yeah, so we are a global company. So we have 10 offices worldwide and close to 300 employees. We're one of the fastest-growing companies in North America. We sell, our focus is managed security services. We do consulting as well as incident response remediation, but the day-to-day, we want your logs, we want to do monitoring, we want to help with-- >> So you guys come in and do deployments and integration and then actually manage security for customers? >> We do the sexy of gettin' it in, and then we also do the unsexy of managing it day-to-day. >> Atif, nothing unsexy about our work. (laughter) >> It's all sexy, that's what theCUBE show's about. >> It's all sexy! >> That's why theCUBE's a household name. We have celebrities coming on now. Soon we'll be on cable. >> That's right! This will be a primetime show. (laughter) >> Before we know it! >> That's funny, I got approached by a network, I can't tell you who, big network with a big producer to do a cybersecurity show. And so, they approached me and they said, oh, we think it's going to be so hot. It's such a topical thing. So they spent a day with me and our team to watch what we do. There is no cybersecurity show! (laughter) They're like, do you guys do anything besides sit on the computer? >> You have a meeting and you look at the monitor. It's not much of a show. >> Does anybody have a gun?! (laughter) >> It's not great for network TV, I think. >> Build a wall. >> Someone has to die in the end. That has to be network TV. And yeah, but I mean, there's a problem. There's 1.4 million cyber jobs open right now. And that's not even including any data science statistics. So you know, so we're reporting that-- >> I'm sure it's the same thing in data science. >> Same problem. How do you take a high skill that there's not enough talent for, hopefully, computer science education, all that stuff happens, and automate it. So your point about automation. This is the number one problem. How do you guys advise clients what the hell do they do? >> You know, automation's tough. We just had this meeting before we got on here, because in our managed service, it's people-driven. We want to automate it. But there's only a certain amount of automation you can do. You still need that human element. I mean, if you can automate it, somebody can buy a product and they're secure. >> Machine learning isn't where it's supposed to be. Every vendor aside, machine learning's not where it needs to be, but we're getting there. Having succinct automation helps solve the cybersecurity labor shortage problem, because the skill level that you hire at can go lower. So you reduce the learning curve of who you need to hire, and what they do. >> That's a great point. I think the unsupervised machine learning algorithms are going to become so much smarter with the Splunk data, because they are, that's a tough nut to crack because you need to have some sort of knowledge around how to make that algorithm work. The data coming in from Splunk is so awesome, that turns that into an asset. So this is a moving train. This is the bigtime. Okay, go step back for a second, I want to change gears. Robert, I want to get your thoughts, because since you're here and you do a lot of, you know, picking the stocks, if you will, on Shark Tank, in the tech world, our boring tech world that we love, by the way. >> We love it too. >> How do you, as someone who's got a lot of experience in cycles of innovation, look at the changing digital transformation vendor landscape, Splunk, companies like Oracle tryin' to transform, Dell bought EMC, IBM's pivoting, Amazon is booming. How do you look at the new digital enterprise, and how do you look at that from, if you're a customer, an investor, where's the growth stocks, where's the growth companies, what's the growth parameters, what's your thoughts? >> One of the reasons a lot of our industry, why I got into tech was I had no money, my dad worked in a factory, my mom was a receptionist. And the old adage is, to make money, you need money. To get ahead, it's not what you know, it's who you know. I didn't know anybody. And the value of tech is tech transforms every three years. We follow these cycles where we eat our own young and we throw away stuff that doesn't add value. Tech is the great equalizer, 'cause if you don't add value, nobody cares. And you know, when I'm starting out as a guy with a small company, I love that! We're going to kick ass, we're going to add value. Now that we're a little bigger-- >> Well, when you're a young company you can eat someone's lunch, because if they're not paying attention, you can come in and-- >> For sure. It gets harder as you get bigger because now we're the big guys that somebody in their basement's tryin' to take out. But you know, we see tremendous innovation in security. If you look back three years, who were the leaders in the SIEM space? ArcSight, Q1, Nitro to a lesser degree, and enVision. Today, does RSA have a strategy around a SIEM? They have Netwitness, you know, security analytics, which is kind of a SIEM. Q1 is in the throes of the IBM machine, somewhere in their gut, nobody knows. ArcSight, who buys ArcSight anymore? It's so complicated. Who's the leader? Splunk! >> So back to the old classic team. Obviously, you have good people on the management team. Product matters now, in tech, doesn't it? More than ever. Obviously, balance sheet. Okay, let's get back to the data transformation. So you know, data is so critical now, and again, it's more from that data warehouse, which still is around, but to real-time data having value, moving it into different applications. Question is, how do you value data? I mean, you can't put it on the balance sheet. I mean, people value factories. GE said, we have all this investment in machines and assets. They worry about someone getting their data and doing a judo move on them. So data is truly an asset that's flying out of their network. How does companies value data? Can it ever be on the balance sheet? How do you look at that? >> I don't think data, in of itself, has any value. It's the effect of the data that has the value. And it's a very singular, it's what somebody does to it. Whatever the data is worth to you, from a business perspective, it's worth fundamentally more to an outside bad party because they can package that data and sell it to a competitor, a foreign government, all those kind of places. So it's the collection of raw data and applying it to something that has meaning to a third party. >> So it's like thermodynamics, really. Until it's in motion, it's really not worth anything. I mean, that's what you're saying. Data's data until it's put to work. >> Right, I don't think you're ever going to see it on a balance sheet as a hard, core value, because it has to have a transformative value. You have to do something with it. It's the something. >> So pretend you're in Shark Tank and you're a data guy, and you say, boss, I need more budget to do security, I need more budget to expand our presence. And the guy says sorry, I need to see some ROI on that data. Well, I just have a gut feeling that if we move the data around, it's going to be worth something. Oh, I pass. You can't justify the investment. So a lot of that, I mean, I'm oversimplifying it, but that's kind of like a dialogue that we hear in customers. How do you get that-- >> What I always tell CIOs and CCOs, it's challenging to get budget to do a good thing or the right thing. It's easier to get budget to do the necessary thing. And so, necessary is defined by the nature of your business. So if you make widgets and you want to get more budget to protect the widgets, no one cares. No one's sitting around, and like oh, are my widgets safe? They are, to certain degree, and they'll have limited budget for that. But if you go to them and say, you know what, we have a risk that if somebody can attack our widgets, we're going to be down for three days. And being down for three days or three hours has a dollar cost of $5 million. I need an extra $2.5 million to protect that from happening. As a business guy and a CEO, I understand that. >> That's great advice. >> And that's the biggest challenge, still, with security people is, we're technical people. We're not used to talking to business guys. >> It's like house insurance, in a way, or insurance. You invest this to recover that. >> It's a great analogy. You know, I used to race cars, and I had a life insurance premium for key man insurance. And my insurance agent comes along and says, you should buy a bigger policy. I'm like, I don't need a bigger policy. It's so much money, we're okay. And then he says to me, you know, if you die in a racecar, I'm not sure you're covered. (laughter) But if you pay me another $10000 a year in coverage, you're covered. Did I buy it? Absolutely. And it's the same analogy. >> That's very necessary. Personal question for you. So if you're, your dad had a factory, you mentioned. I saw that you mentioned that earlier. If he had a factory today in a modern era of IoT, and you were going to give him a digital transformation consulting project, how would you advise him? Because a lot of people are taking their analog business and kind of digitizing it. Some already have sensors in there. So you see it in manufacturing, and certainly, the industrial aspect of IoT has been a big deal. How would you advise your dad building a factory today? >> Yeah, so I think there's two aspects to it. One is just, you know, everything we've been talking about, data transformation, data analytics, making things better, none of those things are possible unless you're actually collecting the data. It's like, customers come to us and say, you know what, we don't want you to just manage our logs and tell us what's going on, we want higher-level value. And I'm like, no, I get that, but unless you're actually aggregating the logs, none of the upstream stuff matters. So first thing is, you have collect the data. Whether that's sensors, old devices, mechanical devices, and so on. The second part of it is, the minute you open up your factory and open up the mechanical devices and attach them to a PC or anything that's network-based, you're open for risk. And so, we're seeing that now in utilities, we're seeing that with gas companies, oil companies. You know, up until a few years ago, you couldn't physically change the flow of a pipeline, unless there was a physical connection, a mechanical on-off. It was very binary. Today, all those systems are connected to the internet. And it saves companies a lot of money 'cause they can test them and stuff. But they're also open to hackers. >> Bigtime. >> Well gentlemen, we appreciate the time. >> Thank you. >> And who says tech hasn't got a little pizazz, I mean-- (laughter) >> Come on, I was on Dancing with the Stars, that's a lot of pizazz! >> It's been great! >> You guys are exciting, but you are, no! >> Dancing with the Stars, of course! >> All right. >> Thank you very much. >> Well, thanks for bein' in theCUBE Tank, we appreciate that. >> Thank you. >> Don't call us, we'll call you. (laughter) Gentlemen, thank you very much. >> We're booked, maybe we can get you on next time. >> Okay, we're out. >> .conf2016, CUBE coverage continues live from Orlando. (electronic jingle)

>> Voiceover: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Discover 2016, Las Vegas. Brought to you by Hewlett Packard Enterprise. Now, here are your hosts, John Furrier and Dave Vellante. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. We are here live in Las Vegas for SiliconANGLE Media's theCUBE. It's our flagship program, we go out to the events to extract the signal from the noise, we're your exclusive coverage of HP Enterprise, Discover 2016, I'm John Furrier with my co-host, Dave Vellante, extracting the signals from the noise with two great guests, Dr. Tom Bradicich, VP and General Manager of the servers and IoT systems, and Eric Starkloff, the EVP of Global Sales and Marketing at National Instruments, welcome back to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> John: Welcome for the first time Cube alumni, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> So we are seeing a real interesting historic announcement from HP, because not only is there an IoT announcement this morning that you are the architect of, but the twist that you're taking with IoT, is very cutting edge, kind of like I just had Google IO, and at these big conferences they always have some sort of sexy demo, that's to kind of show the customers the future, like AI, or you know, Oculus Rift goggles as the future of their application, but you actually don't have something that's futuristic, it's reality, you have a new product, around IoT, at the Edge, Edgeline, the announcements are all online. Tom, but you guys did something different. And Eric's here for a reason, we'll get to that in a second, but the announcement represents a significant bet. That you're making, and HP's making, on the future of IoT. Please share the vision, and the importance of this event. >> Well thank you, and it's great to be back here with you guys. We've looked around and we could not find anything that existed today, if you will, to satisfy the needs of this industry and our customers. So we had to create not only a new product, but a new product category. A category of products that didn't exist before, and the new Edgeline1000, and the Edgeline4000 are the first entrance into this new product category. Now, what's a new product category? Well, whoever invented the first automobile, there was not a category of automobiles. When the first automobile was invented, it created a new product category called automobiles, and today everybody has a new entry into that as well. So we're creating a new product category, called converged IoT systems. Converged IoT systems are needed to deliver the real-time insights, real-time response, and advance the business outcomes, or the engineering outcomes, or the scientific outcomes, depending on the situation of our customers. They're needed to do that. Now when you have a name, converged, that means somewhat, a synonym is integration, what did we integrate? Now, I want to tell you the three major things we integrated, one of which comes from Eric, and the fine National Instruments company, that makes this technology that we actually put in, to the single box. And I can't wait to tell you more about it, but that's what we did, a new product category, not just two new products. >> So, you guys are bringing two industries together, again, that's not only just point technologies or platforms, in tooling, you're bringing disparate kind of players together. >> Yes. >> But it's not just a partnership, it's not like shaking hands and doing a strategic partnership, so there's real meat on the bone here. Eric, talk about one, the importance of this integration of two industries, basically, coming together, converged category if you will, or industry, and what specifically is in the box or in the technology. >> Yeah, I think you hit it exactly right. I mean, everyone talks about the convergence of OT, or operational technology, and IT. And we're actually doing it together. I represent the OT side, National Instruments is a global leader. >> John: OT, it means, just for the audience? >> Operational Technology, it's basically industrial equipment, measurement equipment, the thing that is connected to the real world. Taking data and controlling the thing that is in the internet of things, or the industrial internet of things as we play. And we've been doing internet of... >> And IT is Information Technologies, we know what that is, OT is... >> I figured that one you knew, OT is Operational Technology. We've been doing IoT before it was a buzzword. Doing measurement and control systems on industrial equipment. So when we say we're making it real, this Edgeline system actually incorporates in National Instruments technology, on an industry standard called PXI. And it is a measurement and control standard that's ubiquitous in the industry, and it's used to connect to the real world, to connect to sensors, actuators, to take in image data, and temperature data and all of those things, to instrument the world, and take in huge amounts of analog data, and then apply the compute power of an Edgeline system onto that application. >> We don't talk a lot about analog data in the IT world. >> Yeah. >> Why is analog data so important, I mean it's prevalent obviously in your world. Talk a little bit more about that. >> It's the largest source of data in the world, as Tom says it's the oldest as well. Analog, of course if you think about it, the analog world is literally infinite. And it's only limited by how many things we want to measure, and how fast we measure them. And the trend in technology is more measurement points and faster. Let me give you a couple of examples of the world we live in. Our customers have acquired over the years, approximately 22 exabytes of data. We don't deal with exabytes that often, I'll give an analogy. It's streaming high definition video, continuously, for a million years, produces 22 exabytes of data. Customers like CERN, that do the Large Hadron Collider, they're a customer of ours, they take huge amounts of analog data. Every time they do an experiment, it's the equivalent of 14 million images, photographs, that they take per second. They create 25 petabytes of data each year. The importance of this and the importance of Edgeline, and we'll get into this some, is that when you have that quantity of data, you need to push processing, and compute technology, towards the edge. For two main reasons. One, is the quantity of data, doesn't lend itself, or takes up too much bandwidth, to be streaming all of it back to central, to cloud, or centralized storage locations. The other one that's very, very important is latency. In the applications that we serve, you often need to make a decision in microseconds. And that means that the processing needs to be done, literally the speed of light is a limiting factor, the processing must be done on the edge, at the thing itself. >> So basically you need a data center at the edge. >> A great way to say it. >> A great way to say it. And this data, or big analog data as we love to call it, is things like particulates, motion, acceleration, voltage, light, sound, location, such as GPS, as well as many other things like vibration and moisture. That is the data that is pent up in things. In the internet of things. And Eric's company National Instruments, can extract that data, digitize it, make it ones and zeroes, and put it into the IT world where we can compute it and gain these insights and actions. So we really have a seminal moment here. We really have the OT industry represented by Eric, connecting with the IT industry, in the same box, literally in the same product in the box, not just a partnership as you pointed out. In fact it's quite a moment, I think we should have a photo op here, shaking hands, two industries coming together. >> So you talk about this new product category. What are the parameters of a new product category? You gave an example of an automobile, okay, but nobody had ever seen one before, but now you're bringing together sort of two worlds. What defines the parameters of a product category, such that it warrants a new category? >> Well, in general, never been done before, and accomplishes something that's not been done before, so that would be more general. But very specifically, this new product, EL1000 and EL4000, creates a new product category because this is an industry first. Never before have we taken data acquisition and capture technology from National Instruments, and data control technology from National Instruments, put that in the same box as deep compute. Deep x86 compute. What do I mean by deep? 64 xeon cores. As you said, a piece of the data center. But that's not all we converged. We took Enterprise Class systems management, something that HP has done very well for many, many years. We've taken the Hewlett Packard Enterprise iLo lights-out technology, converged that as well. In addition we put storage in there. 10s of terabytes of storage can be at the edge. So by this combination of things, that did exist before, the elements of course, by that combination of things, we've created this new product category. >> And is there a data store out there as well? A database? >> Oh yes, now since we have, this is the profundity of what I said, lies in the fact that because we have so many cores, so close to the acquisition of the data, from National Instruments, we can run virtually any application that runs on an x86 server. So, and I'm not exaggerating, thousands. Thousands of databases. Machine learning. Manageability, insight, visualization of data. Data capture tools, that all run on servers and workstations, now run at the edge. Again, that's never been done before, in the sense that at the edge today, are very weak processing. Very weak, and you can't just run an unmodified app, at that level. >> And in terms of the value chain, National Instruments is a supplier to this new product category? Is that the right way to think about it? >> An ingredient, a solution ingredient but just like we are, number one, but we are both reselling the product together. >> Dave: Okay. >> So we've jointly, collaboratively, developed this together. >> So it's engineers and engineers getting together, building the product. >> Exactly. His engineers, mine, we worked extremely close, and produced this beauty. >> We had a conversation yesterday, argument about the iPhone, I was saying hey, this was a game-changing category, if you will, because it was a computer that had software that could make phone calls. Versus the other guys, who had a phone, that could do text messages and do email. With a browser. >> Tom: With that converged product. >> So this would be similar, if I may, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, I want you to correct me and clarify, what you're saying is, you guys essentially looked at the edge differently, saying let's build the data center, at the edge, in theory or in concept here, in a little concept, but in theory, the power of a data center, that happens to do edge stuff. >> Tom: That's right. >> Is that accurate? >> I think it's very accurate. Let me make a point and let you respond. >> Okay. >> Neapolitan ice cream has three flavors. Chocolate, vanilla, strawberry, all in one box. That's what we did with this Edgeline. What's the value of that? Well, you can carry it, you can store it, you can serve it more conveniently, with everything together. You could have separate boxes, of chocolate, vanilla, and strawberry, that existed, right, but coming together, that convergence is key. We did that with deep compute, with data capture and control, and then systems management and Enterprise class device and systems management. And I'd like to explain why this is a product. Why would you use this product, you know, as well. Before I continue though, I want to get to the seven reasons why you would use this. And we'll go fast. But seven reasons why. But would you like to add anything about the definition of the conversion? >> Yeah, I was going to just give a little perspective, from an OT and an industrial OT kind of perspective. This world has generally lived in a silo away from IT. >> Mm-hmm. >> It's been proprietary networking standards, not been connected to the rest of the enterprise. That's the huge opportunity when we talk about the IoT, or the industrial IT, is connecting that to the rest of the enterprise. Let me give you an example. One of our customers is Duke Energy. They've implemented an online monitoring system for all of their power generation plants. They have 2,000 of our devices called CompactRIO, that connect to 30,000 sensors across all of their generation plants, getting real-time monitoring, predictive analytics, predictive failure, and it needs to have processing close to the edge, that latency issue I mentioned? They need to basically be able to do deep processing and potentially shut down a machine. Immediately if it's an a condition that warrants so. The importance here is that as those things are brought online, into IT infrastructure, the importance of deep compute, and the importance of the security and the capability that HPE has, becomes critical to our customers in the industrial internet of things. >> Well, I want to push back and just kind of play devil's advocate, and kind of poke holes in your thesis, if I can. >> Eric: Sure thing. >> So you got the probes and all the sensors and all the analog stuff that's been going on for you know, years and years, powering and instrumentation. You've got the box. So okay, I'm a customer. I have other stuff I might put in there, so I don't want to just rely on just your two stuff. Your technologies. So how do you deal with the corner case of I might have my own different devices, it's connected through IT, is that just a requirement on your end, or is that... How do you deal with the multi-vendor thing? >> It has to be an open standard. And there's two elements of open standard in this product, I'll let Tom come in on one, but one of them is, the actual IO standard, that connects to the physical world, we said it's something called PXI. National Instruments is a major vendor within this PXI market, but it is an open standard, there are 70 different vendors, thousands of products, so that part of it in connecting to the physical world, is built on an open standard, and the rest of the platform is as well. >> Indeed. Can I go back to your metaphor of the smartphone that you held up? There are times even today, but it's getting less and less, that people still carry around a camera. Or a second phone. Or a music player. Or the Beats headphones, et cetera, right? There's still time for that. So to answer your question, it's not a replacement for everything. But very frankly, the vision is over time, just like the smartphone, and the app store, more and more will get converged into this platform. So it's an introduction of a platform, we've done the inaugural convergence of the aforementioned data capture, high compute, management, storage, and we'll continue to add more and more, again, just like the smartphone analogy. And there will still be peripheral solutions around, to address your point. >> But your multi-vendor strategy if I get this right, doesn't prevent you, doesn't foreclose the customer's benefits in any way, so they connect through IT, they're connected into the box and benefits. You changed, they're just not converged inside the box. >> At this point. But I'm getting calls regularly, and you may too, Eric, of other vendors saying, I want in. I would like to relate that conceptually to the app store. Third party apps are being produced all the time that go onto this platform. And it's pretty exciting. >> And before you get to your seven killer attributes, what's the business model? So you guys have jointly engineered this product, you're jointly selling it through your channels, >> Eric: Yes. >> If you have a large customer like GE for example, who just sort of made the public commitment to HPE infrastructure. How will you guys "split the booty," so to speak? (laughter) >> Well we are actually, as Tom said we are doing reselling, we'll be reselling this through our channel, but I think one of the key things is bringing together our mutual expertise. Because when we talk about convergence of OT and IT, it's also bringing together the engineering expertise of our two companies. We really understand acquiring data from the real world, controlling industrial systems. HPE is the world leader in IT technology. And so, we'll be working together and mutually with customers to bring those two perspectives together, and we see huge opportunity in that. >> Yeah, okay so it's engineering. You guys are primarily a channel company anyway, so. >> Actually, I can make it frankly real simple, knowing that if we go back to the Neapolitan ice cream, and we reference National Instruments as chocolate, they have all the contact with the chocolate vendor, the chocolate customers if you will. We have all the vanilla. So we can go in and then pull each other that way, and then go in and pull this way, right? So that's one way as this market develops. And that's going to very powerful because indeed, the more we talk about when it used to be separated, before today, the more we're expressing that also separate customers. That the other guy does not know. And that's the key here in this relationship. >> So talk about the trend we're hearing here at the show, I mean it's been around in IT for a long time. But more now with the agility, the DevOps and cloud and everything. End to end management. Because that seems to be the table stakes. Do you address any of that in the announcement, is it part, does it fit right in? >> Absolutely, because, when we take, and we shift left, this is one of our monikers, we shift left. The data center and the cloud is on the right, and we're shifting left the data center class capabilities, out to the edge. That's why we call it shift left. And we meet, our partner National Instruments is already there, and an expert and a leader. As we shift left, we're also shifting with it, the manageability capabilities and the software that runs the management. Whether it be infrastructure, I mean I can do virtualization at the edge now, with a very popular virtualization package, I can do remote desktops like the Citrix company, the VMware company, these technologies and databases that come from our own Vertica database, that come from PTC, a great partner, with again, operations technology. Things that were running already in the data center now, get to run there. >> So you bring the benefit to the IT guy, out to the edge, to management, and Eric, you get the benefit of connecting into IT, to bring that data benefits into the business processes. >> Exactly. And as the industrial internet of things scales to billions of machines that have monitoring, and online monitoring capability, that's critical. Right, it has to be manageable. You have to be able to have these IT capabilities in order to manage such a diverse set of assets. >> Well, the big data group can basically validate that, and the whole big data thesis is, moving data where it needs to be, and having data about physical analog stuff, assets, can come in and surface more insight. >> Exactly. The biggest data of all. >> And vice versa. >> Yup. >> All right, we've got to get to the significant seven, we only have a few minutes left. >> All right. Oh yeah. >> Hit us. >> Yeah, yeah. And we're cliffhanging here on that one. But let me go through them real quick. So the question is, why wouldn't I just, you know, rudimentary collect the data, do some rudimentary analytics, send it all up to the cloud. In fact you hear that today a lot, pop-up. Censored cloud, censored cloud. Who doesn't have a cloud today? Every time you turn around, somebody's got a cloud, please send me all your data. We do that, and we do that well. We have Helion, we have the Microsoft Azure IoT cloud, we do that well. But my point is, there's a world out there. And it can be as high as 40 to 50 percent of the market, IDC is quoted as suggesting 40 percent of the data collected at the edge, by for example National Instruments, will be processed at the edge. Not sent, necessarily back to the data center or cloud, okay. With that background, there are seven reasons to not send all the data, back to the cloud. That doesn't mean you can't or you shouldn't, it just means you don't have to. There are seven reasons to compute at the edge. With an Edgeline system. Ready? >> Dave: Ready. >> We're going to go fast. And there'll be a test on this, so. >> I'm writing it down. >> Number one is latency, Eric already talked about that. How fast do you want your turnaround time? How fast would you like to know your asset's going to catch on fire? How fast would you like to know when the future autonomous car, that there's a little girl playing in the road, as opposed to a plastic bag being blown against the road, and are you going to rely on the latency of going all the way to the cloud and back, which by the way may be dropped, it's not only slow, but you ever try to make a phone call recently, and it not work, right? So you get that point. So that's latency one. You need to time to incite, time to response. Number one of seven, I'll go real quick. Number two of seven is bandwidth. If you're going to send all this big analog data, the oldest, the fastest, and the biggest of all big data, all back, you need tremendous bandwidth. And sometimes it doesn't exist, or, as some of our mutual customers tell us, it exists but I don't want to use it all for edge data coming back. That's two of seven. Three of seven is cost. If you're going to use the bandwidth, you've got to pay for it. Even if you have money to pay for it, you might not want to, so again that's three, let's go to four. (coughs) Excuse me. Number four of seven is threats. If you're going to send all the data across sites, you have threats. It doesn't mean we can't handle the threats, in fact we have the best security in the industry, with our Aruba security, ClearPass, we have ArcSight, we have Volt. We have several things. But the point is, again, it just exposes it to more threats. I've had customers say, we don't want it exposed. Anyway, that's four. Let's move on to five, is duplication. If you're going to collect all the data, and then send it all back, you're going to duplicate at the edge, you're going to duplicate not all things, but some things, both. All right, so duplication. And here we're coming up to number six. Number six is corruption. Not hostile corruption, but just package dropped. Data gets corrupt. The longer you have it in motion, e.g. back to the cloud, right, the longer it is as well. So you have corruption, you can avoid. And number three, I'm sorry, number seven, here we go with number seven. Not to send all the data back, is what we call policies and compliance, geo-fencing, I've had a customer say, I am not allowed to send all the data to these data centers or to my data scientists, because I can't leave country borders. I can't go over the ocean, as well. Now again, all these seven, create a market for us, so we can solve these seven, or at least significantly ameliorate the issues by computing at the edge with the Edgeline systems. >> Great. Eric, I want to get your final thoughts here, and as we wind down the segment. You're from the ops side, ops technologies, this is your world, it's not new to you, this edge stuff, it's been there, been there, done that, it is IoT for you, right? So you've seen the evolution of your industry. For the folks that are in IT, that HP is going to be approaching with this new category, and this new shift left, what does it mean? Share your color behind, and reasoning and reality check, on the viability. >> Sure. >> And relevance. >> Yeah, I think that there are some significant things that are driving this change. The rise of software capability, connecting these previously siloed, unconnected assets to the rest of the world, is a fundamental shift. And the cost point of acquisition technology has come down the point where we literally have a better, more compelling economic case to be made, for the online monitoring of more and more machine-type data. That example I gave of Duke Energy? Ten years ago they evaluated online monitoring, and it wasn't economical, to implement that type of a system. Today it is, and it's actually very, very compelling to their business, in terms of scheduled downtime, maintenance cost, it's a compelling value proposition. And the final one is as we deliver more analytics capability to the edge, I believe that's going to create opportunity that we don't even really, completely envision yet. And this deep computing, that the Edgeline systems have, is going to enable us to do an analysis at the edge, that we've previously never done. And I think that's going to create whole new opportunities. >> So based on your expert opinion, talk to the IT guys watching, viability, and ability to do this, what's the... Because some people are a little nervous, will the parachute open? I mean, it's a huge endeavor for an IT company to instrument the edge of their business, it's the cutting, bleeding edge, literally. What's the viability, the outcome, is it possible? >> It's here now. It is here now, I mean this announcement kind of codifies it in a new product category, but it's here now, and it's inevitable. >> Final word, your thoughts. >> Tom: I agree. >> Proud papa, you're like a proud papa now, you got your baby out there. >> It's great. But the more I tell you how wonderful the EL1000, EL4000 is, it's like my mother calling me handsome. Therefore I want to point the audience to Flowserve. F-L-O-W, S-E-R-V-E. They're one of our customers using Edgeline, and National Instruments equipment, so you can find that video online as well. They'll tell us about really the value here, and it's really powerful to hear from a customer. >> John: And availability is... >> Right now we have EL1000s and EL4000s in the hands of our customers, doing evaluations, at the end of the summer... >> John: Pre-announcement, not general availability. >> Right, general availability is not yet, but we'll have that at the end of the summer, and we can do limited availability as we call it, depending on the demand, and how we roll it out, so. >> How big the customer base is, in relevance to the... Now, is this the old boon shot box, just a quick final question. >> Tom: It is not, no. >> Really? >> We are leveraging some high-performance, low-power technology, that Intel has just announced, I'd like to shout out to that partner. They just announced and launched... Diane Bryant did her keynote to launch the new xeon, E3, low-power high-performance xeon, and it was streamed, her keynote, on the Edgeline compute engine. That's actually going into the Edgeline, that compute blade is going into the Edgeline. She streamed with it, we're pretty excited about that as well. >> Tom and Eric, thanks so much for sharing the big news, and of course congratulations, new category. >> Thank you. >> Let's see how this plays out, we'll be watching, got to get the draft picks in for this new sports league, we're calling it, like IoT, the edge, of course we're theCUBE, we're living at the edge, all the time, we're at the edge of HPE Discovery. Have one more day tomorrow, but again, three days of coverage. You're watching theCUBE, I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, we'll be right back. (electronic music)