(funky music) >> Hi, and welcome to this CUBE conversation from theCUBE Studios in Paulo Alto, California. I'm your host, Sonia Tagare, and today we're joined by Leigh Phillips, president and CEO of SaverLife. Leigh, welcome to theCUBE. >> Hi, thanks so much for having me. >> Absolutely. So, tell us more about SaverLife and how it works. >> So, SaverLife is a non-profit organization. We work nationally, but we're based here in San Francisco, and our mission is to help working American families to save money, and to invest in themselves and their futures. So, we do that by making it engaging, rewarding, and fun for people to start saving, and leveraging financial technology to achieve scale. >> And you were previously known as EARN, so what spurred this change in branding? >> Well, it was more than a change in branding. It was actually a big shift towards technology. So, EARN, or, now known as SaverLife, has actually been around since 2001. So, we are not new, we're not a starter, we've been helping low to moderate income working families to save money for a long time. But what we've realized in recent years is that the size of the problem is really quite significant. So, about half of American families don't have $400. So they couldn't cover a $400 expense without having to borrow the money. As EARN, we were helping a lot of families here in the Bay Area, but maybe, you know, a thousand families a year at our peak, and when you have half of America that's financially insecure, we knew that the solution that we had wasn't big enough. So, a couple of years ago, the organization decided to make a pivot, and to make a pivot towards technology. I came onboard about four and a half years ago to lead that transition, and we launched SaverLife as a product, and we reached a quarter of a million people in a couple years, and decided that the people know best, and that we would rebrand the whole organization as SaverLife. So that's kind of how that came about. >> That's awesome. >> Yeah. >> So who is SaverLife specifically targeting, and are there any specific challenges with this target group? >> So, SaverLife is specifically targeting working American families, mostly low income families, so as I mentioned, financial insecurity is a really big problem here in the US, and so we hear about that a lot in the news, about income inequality, wealth inequality, but one of the most troubling statistics came out from the Federal Reserve Bank, they found that about 42% of American families couldn't cover a $400 expense without going into debt. And that's an issue that affects lots of people in different ways. So, SaverLife is really targeting low income people who are struggling to save money, and need a little help getting started with that. So, most of our clients are women, they're all across the United States and on average make about 25 thousand dollars a year or less. >> So let's talk about the current savings crisis in America. According to Bankry, 20% of Americans don't have emergency savings, and only 18% of Americans can live off their savings for only six months. So, tell us more about this crisis, and what do you think the underlying issue is? >> Yeah, it's a great question, and there are many issues that play into that, and most of them are systemic, you know. The way that people are making money and the gap between income and expenses. So, what we see is that larger numbers of people don't have basic emergency savings, and what that means is that you can't get through a financial emergency, right? And so that can have a real downward spiral effect on your life. So imagine a scenario where you have to miss a day or two of work because your child is sick, and you don't have sick leave, like a lot of people don't. And so you miss a couple days of income. Or, you get a flat tire, or a parking ticket. Those are the types of things that can really spiral out of control, so then you lose income, then you can't pay your rent, you're at risk of eviction, and all of these other problems. So what we know is that having relatively small amount of money, so even just 250 to $750 in savings is found to reduce those risks of things like eviction, or falling behind on bills or utilities really significantly. So, we're focused on getting people to that point, so that they can get through challenges. So one of the big things that we see in our population, isn't just that wages are low, which remains a really big problem in the US right now, but that income is really inconsistent. So if you're making an hourly wage job, or maybe you work in retail, or you work in a warehouse, or something like that, and you drive for Uber, whatever the case may be, your money that's coming in, you're not getting the same amount of money in your paycheck every two weeks, right? Like many of us do. And in fact, for SaverLife clients, we're seeing these swings of income of around a thousand dollars a month, month over month. So sometimes you earn more and sometimes you earn less. So in that scenario, it's really hard to stay on track towards saving, because you don't know how much money's coming in, and then you're getting hit with all these increasing expenses at the same time. >> Right. And, can you tell us a little bit about how people can save their way to financial independence, is it viable, and how have challenges changed since the disappearance of defined-benefit retirement packages? >> Yeah, so, it is possible, but it's challenging, and, you know, I do think that we need to be aware of those kind of bigger issues, right? And to focus on helping people have more consistency in their income, and reducing some of those large expenses, whether or not in, the very obviously, the cost of housing, medical care, child care, transportation, all of these things that are really holding families back. But, you know, the good news is that people are remarkable. People are resilient, and people are remarkable. And I can share a couple of stories with you about that. So, at SaverLife we encourage people to save with prizes and cash rewards, right? So we make it really easy for people to get started. We also have a really supportive online community, so this is an issue that affects half of us, right? It's not something that people should be ashamed of. This is a really big and endemic issue here in the US. So we don't judge people, you know, it's all about starting small and starting today. So what we do at SaverLife is encourage people to save what they can when they can, and then we use behavioral economics to design programmatic interventions, so features on the website, that encourage people to save. So you can save five bucks a week if that's what works for you, and then you have the chance to win prizes. We also do a tax time quest, so that's happening right now. So, tax season is one of the times when people will get a larger infusion of cash, right? Particularly low income people, who maybe are qualified for tax credits and other benefits. So, what we do is encourage people to save a portion of that refund. So we ask people to start thinking about it before they get the refund, right? That's really clear, cause once the money is in, it's usually already spent. So we start talking to people in December, why don't you pledge to save your refund? You can win prizes just for pledging. And what we've found is that getting people to think about and commit to savings resulted, last year, in 80% of those people actually putting money into savings, and saving on average 16 hundred dollars from their tax refunds. >> Sonia: Wow. That's incredible. I love how you're incentivizing this whole savings thing, because, like, that essentially just makes people want to do it more. >> Leigh: Yeah. >> So, how should people bucket their savings? Should they have an emergency fund, a college fund, a retirement fund, how should they do that? >> So what we find at SaverLife is, or what we promote, is the idea that your money should really align with your values. And what's important to you, and what you want to achieve for yourself and for your family. So we don't tell people what to save for, and we don't tell them what to spend their money on, right? So, the biggest thing that people save for with the program is emergencies. So, really having that financial cushion, so, your car breaks down, or whatever the case may be, you can take care of it without going into debt, right? 'Cause that's the cycle that we want to avoid. But then we also see people really staying on track to save for big goals. And unsurprisingly, those are still the kind of goals that we talk about a lot in this country. So, an education, for yourself or for your children, and home ownership. Those remain, kind of the most popular things that people are focused on. >> So when it comes to prioritizing how you should save, like especially for someone who's just coming off that one paycheck away from the street, kind of space, how would you recommend prioritizing your savings? >> Leigh: So, we focus on building a savings habit. That's kind of the number one thing that we want people to really think about. So, putting money away as consistently as you can. It's really the behavior change that we're looking to see. And that's why we encourage people to make those small, incremental steps. But we also know that life has a lot of ups and downs, right? Particularly for people who are, as you say, living paycheck to paycheck. And so, what we see in our data is that families are often making two deposits in one withdrawal. So they're putting money away, and then they're using that money when they need it to get through emergencies. So that's kind of the first thing that we really look to do is, once you have that savings habit, and we know it's hard, you know, to do that, especially if you're not making a lot of money at this moment. But that's really, whatever you can save to get into that habit of putting it away. >> And do you think people are more at risk of being one paycheck away from being on the street, or one big bill away from being on the street? >> Leigh: Yeah, absolutely, many people are, you know? And especially here in the Bay Area, right? When life is extremely expensive, the cost of housing is out of control, and those other expenses that people have to deal with. And if you layer on top of that, that inconsistency in people's income, not making a regular amount of money, we're putting a lot of people in a very, very perilous situation. >> Sonia: Right. So let's talk about financial empowerment. You were leading the office of financial empowerment in the city and county of San Francisco. So, tell us more about financial empowerment and why it's important for people to have it. So, you know, I started out working for the city over there for about 11 years, before there was a thing called financial empowerment. And we started working on a range of programs. I worked for the San Francisco treasurer, and what we're really looking to do is use the influence of the city, and the municipal government to try to make a more fair and equitable financial system for people in San Francisco. So we started with programs like Bank On San Francisco, which was access to banking for everybody. So the idea that everyone should be able to have a safe and affordable place to keep their money, and to save their money. So that was a program we worked on there. And then we went on to launch the country's first universal children's savings program. So today, every single kindergartner, actually, today, every single elementary school student in San Francisco has a savings account open for them by the city and county, to encourage families to save early and often, for college. So when we think about financial empowerment, and how local government plays a role, we're really looking at a couple of things. So, do you have the ability to have a safe place to keep your money, and deposit your paycheck, pay your bills, in a way that's affordable, that doesn't have high fees, and is transparent, so that's the first thing. Do you have access to financial education and coaching if you need it? So the city now has quite a robust individual financial coaching and counseling program that they run. Are you able to save and invest in your future? So, save for college, save for home ownership, save for those big things, be a small business owner. And then the fourth thing is, are your assets protected? So are we protecting you from predatory practices that can deplete your wealth? >> And why did you decide to go from the city, from a public organization to a more private organization, like SaverLife? >> Leigh: You know, it was a interesting story. So we had worked with SaverLife when it was known as EARN, at the city. So the organization was actually really closely partnered with us, so I knew them and I knew their work. So there was a couple of reasons. I became really intrigued by this idea that being here in Silicon Valley, we really should start putting the types of technology that are so transformative, really putting that to work for everybody, right? And I had been an advisor, on an advisory board to for-profit fintech starter. And I thought, "Oh, if we could take that type of tech, "and use it to help low income people "build wealth in the US, "that could be really transformative." So that was the first reason. The second reason was really thinking about the scope of this problem, and when you work for the local government, you see that trajectory, that, you know, the traffic ticket that turned into a lost drivers license that turned into a lost job, that turned into an eviction, right? Like, you see those types of issues play out, over and over in people's lives. So the idea that half of America doesn't have four or five hundred bucks, and we could actually do something about that, was really impactful to me. And then the third reason was, you know, I loved working for the San Francisco treasurer, who is amazing, but I kind of felt, as a woman, that I wanted to lead an organization in my own right. And that I had challenged myself that, I had a personal goal that if the opportunity came up, to be that leader that I was going to challenge myself to take it. And so when the opportunity came up, I just went for it. >> And what challenges did you face to become the CEO? >> I think, you know, a lot of the challenges first were within myself, you know? Like, there's a lot that goes into being a non-profit CEO, you know? You have, obviously, you're working on some of the biggest problems that are out there, and you're doing it with so few resources, you know? And so, is that kind of, you know that saying about Ginger Rogers doing everything that Fred Astaire did but backwards and in heels, it's kind of like that, right? You're trying to solve really, really, really big problems that are deeply entrenched, like half of America doesn't have $400. There's a lot of reasons for that, right? And then you're trying to do it by cobbling together philanthropic resources to make that happen. So, I think that was a challenge, like would it be a success? And then at the time, this organization was making in the midst of this massive transformation, you know? So going from seeing clients one on one in the office, to launching and building a scalable tech platform. And I don't have a tech background, you know? I can sometimes use my phone, you know? Like, that's, it's not my thing. But I was able to understand the potential. And so that was what really drew me there to challenge myself to be like, okay, well, there's a lot of people around here that have managed to figure this out, maybe I can figure it out, too. >> Sonia: Yeah, absolutely. So when we talk about people being unbanked, can you tell us more about what unbanked means and what it means for today? >> Leigh: Yeah, so when we talk about access to banking, and mainstream financial services, we usually separate that into two buckets, right? So you have unbanked, which means, people who have no formal relationship with a bank or credit union. So, you don't have a checking account, you don't have a savings account, you're going to a check cashing place, you're paying a fee, quite high fee, to turn your paycheck or whatever into cash, you're paying your bills with money orders, you know, that kind of thing. Then there's a larger category of people that are called underbanked. And so, those are people who may have that checking account relationship with a bank or a credit union, but they're still using these types of alternative services. So that could be money orders, it could be high cost predatory pay day lending, auto title lending, like these, kind of, systems that are outside of mainstream finance. And that actually affects quite a lot of people here in the US. About, I think, 7 to 8% of people are completely unbanked, but a much more significant portion are considered underbanked. And I think there are a lot of reasons for that, it's usually split about 50-50 between people who have never had an account before. So those may be people who don't think banks are for them, don't feel welcome in that environment, don't trust banks, you know, so those are some of the reasons. But then the other half of people who are unbanked is because they've had bad or negative experiences with banking, and they've made a decision that banking didn't work for them. It was too costly, often that's the reason, hidden fees, overdraft fees, those types of penalties, and just decided that, you know what, it was better for me to manage my money in a different way. >> And how has SaverLife helped these people feel more secure in their financial investments? >> Leigh: So when we first launched SaverLife, it's gone through so many, so much. So much transformation and change over the years, as we've been, really adopting some of those tech based practices around iteration, and being user driven, and really trying to deliver something that will work for people. So what we heard when we first launched, was, you know, I know that saving is something I need to do for myself and my family, I think pretty much everybody knows and understands that, but it's too hard for me right now, you know? Either I've lost my job, I've been, I've had an illness, or a family member's had an illness, a lot of real reasons why people are unable to do that. And so people would say, "But I really want to get there, "so what can you do to help me?" So, at SaverLife specifically, we work with large numbers of people, we have about a quarter of a million people who've signed up for SaverLife in the last three years, which is really cool. We went from serving ten thousand people in a decade, actually six thousand people in a decade, to 250 thousand people in three years, which is pretty cool. So that shows us that there's a big need and interest for this. So anyone that goes to saverlife.org and signs up is going to get weekly financial coaching content from a certified financial coach who specializes in helping people with lower incomes to build wealth. If you link your account to our platform, you're going to qualify to win prizes for saving your own money. So it's kind of like this no-lose lottery in a way, like, you gain 'cause you're saving, and you have the opportunity to win money, and it's completely free. So, there's a lot of real benefits that we have on the platform that are designed specifically to help people who are struggling financially. >> Well, that's awesome. Leigh, thank you so much for being on theCUBE and thank you for your insight. >> Thanks so much for having me. >> Absolutely. >> I enjoyed speaking with you. >> I'm Sonia Tagare, thank you for watching this CUBE conversation. See you next time. (funky music)

(funky music) >> Hi, and welcome to this CUBE conversation from theCUBE Studios in Paulo Alto, California. I'm your host, Sonia Tagare, and today we're joined by Leigh Phillips, president and CEO of SaverLife. Leigh, welcome to theCUBE. >> Hi, thanks so much for having me. >> Absolutely. So, tell us more about SaverLife and how it works. >> So, SaverLife is a non-profit organization. We work nationally, but we're based here in San Francisco, and our mission is to help working American families to save money, and to invest in themselves and their futures. So, we do that by making it engaging, rewarding, and fun for people to start saving, and leveraging financial technology to achieve scale. >> And you were previously known as EARN, so what spurred this change in branding? >> Well, it was more than a change in branding. It was actually a big shift towards technology. So, EARN, or, now known as SaverLife, has actually been around since 2001. So, we are not new, we're not a starter, we've been helping low to moderate income working families to save money for a long time. But what we've realized in recent years is that the size of the problem is really quite significant. So, about half of American families don't have $400. So they couldn't cover a $400 expense without having to borrow the money. As EARN, we were helping a lot of families here in the Bay Area, but maybe, you know, a thousand families a year at our peak, and when you have half of America that's financially insecure, we knew that the solution that we had wasn't big enough. So, a couple of years ago, the organization decided to make a pivot, and to make a pivot towards technology. I came onboard about four and a half years ago to lead that transition, and we launched SaverLife as a product, and we reached a quarter of a million people in a couple years, and decided that the people know best, and that we would rebrand the whole organization as SaverLife. So that's kind of how that came about. >> That's awesome. >> Yeah. >> So who is SaverLife specifically targeting, and are there any specific challenges with this target group? >> So, SaverLife is specifically targeting working American families, mostly low income families, so as I mentioned, financial insecurity is a really big problem here in the US, and so we hear about that a lot in the news, about income inequality, wealth inequality, but one of the most troubling statistics came out from the Federal Reserve Bank, they found that about 42% of American families couldn't cover a $400 expense without going into debt. And that's an issue that affects lots of people in different ways. So, SaverLife is really targeting low income people who are struggling to save money, and need a little help getting started with that. So, most of our clients are women, they're all across the United States and on average make about 25 thousand dollars a year or less. >> So let's talk about the current savings crisis in America. According to Bankry, 20% of Americans don't have emergency savings, and only 18% of Americans can live off their savings for only six months. So, tell us more about this crisis, and what do you think the underlying issue is? >> Yeah, it's a great question, and there are many issues that play into that, and most of them are systemic, you know. The way that people are making money and the gap between income and expenses. So, what we see is that larger numbers of people don't have basic emergency savings, and what that means is that you can't get through a financial emergency, right? And so that can have a real downward spiral effect on your life. So imagine a scenario where you have to miss a day or two of work because your child is sick, and you don't have sick leave, like a lot of people don't. And so you miss a couple days of income. Or, you get a flat tire, or a parking ticket. Those are the types of things that can really spiral out of control, so then you lose income, then you can't pay your rent, you're at risk of eviction, and all of these other problems. So what we know is that having relatively small amount of money, so even just 250 to $750 in savings is found to reduce those risks of things like eviction, or falling behind on bills or utilities really significantly. So, we're focused on getting people to that point, so that they can get through challenges. So one of the big things that we see in our population, isn't just that wages are low, which remains a really big problem in the US right now, but that income is really inconsistent. So if you're making an hourly wage job, or maybe you work in retail, or you work in a warehouse, or something like that, and you drive for Uber, whatever the case may be, your money that's coming in, you're not getting the same amount of money in your paycheck every two weeks, right? Like many of us do. And in fact, for SaverLife clients, we're seeing these swings of income of around a thousand dollars a month, month over month. So sometimes you earn more and sometimes you earn less. So in that scenario, it's really hard to stay on track towards saving, because you don't know how much money's coming in, and then you're getting hit with all these increasing expenses at the same time. >> Right. And, can you tell us a little bit about how people can save their way to financial independence, is it viable, and how have challenges changed since the disappearance of defined-benefit retirement packages? >> Yeah, so, it is possible, but it's challenging, and, you know, I do think that we need to be aware of those kind of bigger issues, right? And to focus on helping people have more consistency in their income, and reducing some of those large expenses, whether or not in the Bay Area obviously, the cost of housing, medical care, child care, transportation, all of these things that are really holding families back. But, you know, the good news is that people are remarkable. People are resilient, and people are remarkable. And I can share a couple of stories with you about that. So, at SaverLife we encourage people to save with prizes and cash rewards, right? So we make it really easy for people to get started. We also have a really supportive online community, so this is an issue that affects half of us, right? It's not something that people should be ashamed of. This is a really big and endemic issue here in the US. So we don't judge people, you know, it's all about starting small and starting today. So what we do at SaverLife is encourage people to save what they can when they can, and then we use behavioral economics to design programmatic interventions, so features on the website, that encourage people to save. So you can save five bucks a week if that's what works for you, and then you have the chance to win prizes. We also do a tax time quest, so that's happening right now. So, tax season is one of the times when people will get a larger infusion of cash, right? Particularly low income people, who maybe are qualified for tax credits and other benefits. So, what we do is encourage people to save a portion of that refund. So we ask people to start thinking about it before they get the refund, right? That's really clear, cause once the money is in, it's usually already spent. So we start talking to people in December, why don't you pledge to save your refund? You can win prizes just for pledging. And what we've found is that getting people to think about and commit to savings resulted, last year, in 80% of those people actually putting money into savings, and saving on average 16 hundred dollars from their tax refunds. >> Sonia: Wow. That's incredible. I love how you're incentivizing this whole savings thing, because, like, that essentially just makes people want to do it more. >> Leigh: Yeah. >> So, how should people bucket their savings? Should they have an emergency fund, a college fund, a retirement fund, how should they do that? >> So what we find at SaverLife is, or what we promote, is the idea that your money should really align with your values. And what's important to you, and what you want to achieve for yourself and for your family. So we don't tell people what to save for, and we don't tell them what to spend their money on, right? So, the biggest thing that people save for with the program is emergencies. So, really having that financial cushion, so, your car breaks down, or whatever the case may be, you can take care of it without going into debt, right? 'Cause that's the cycle that we want to avoid. But then we also see people really staying on track to save for big goals. And unsurprisingly, those are still the kind of goals that we talk about a lot in this country. So, an education, for yourself or for your children, and home ownership. Those remain, kind of the most popular things that people are focused on. >> So when it comes to prioritizing how you should save, like especially for someone who's just coming off that one paycheck away from the street, kind of space, how would you recommend prioritizing your savings? >> Leigh: So, we focus on building a savings habit. That's kind of the number one thing that we want people to really think about. So, putting money away as consistently as you can. It's really the behavior change that we're looking to see. And that's why we encourage people to make those small, incremental steps. But we also know that life has a lot of ups and downs, right? Particularly for people who are, as you say, living paycheck to paycheck. And so, what we see in our data is that families are often making two deposits in one withdrawal. So they're putting money away, and then they're using that money when they need it to get through emergencies. So that's kind of the first thing that we really look to do is, once you have that savings habit, and we know it's hard, you know, to do that, especially if you're not making a lot of money at this moment. But that's really, whatever you can save to get into that habit of putting it away. >> And do you think people are more at risk of being one paycheck away from being on the street, or one big bill away from being on the street? >> Leigh: Yeah, absolutely, many people are, you know? And especially here in the Bay Area, right? When life is extremely expensive, the cost of housing is out of control, and those other expenses that people have to deal with. And if you layer on top of that, that inconsistency in people's income, not making a regular amount of money, we're putting a lot of people in a very, very perilous situation. >> Sonia: Right. So let's talk about financial empowerment. You were leading the office of financial empowerment in the city and county of San Francisco. So, tell us more about financial empowerment and why it's important for people to have it. So, you know, I started out working for the city over there for about 11 years, before there was a thing called financial empowerment. And we started working on a range of programs. I worked for the San Francisco treasurer, and what we're really looking to do is use the influence of the city, and the municipal government to try to make a more fair and equitable financial system for people in San Francisco. So we started with programs like Bank On San Francisco, which was access to banking for everybody. So the idea that everyone should be able to have a safe and affordable place to keep their money, and to save their money. So that was a program we worked on there. And then we went on to launch the country's first universal children's savings program. So today, every single kindergartner, actually, today, every single elementary school student in San Francisco has a savings account open for them by the city and county, to encourage families to save early and often, for college. So when we think about financial empowerment, and how local government plays a role, we're really looking at a couple of things. So, do you have the ability to have a safe place to keep your money, and deposit your paycheck, pay your bills, in a way that's affordable, that doesn't have high fees, and is transparent, so that's the first thing. Do you have access to financial education and coaching if you need it? So the city now has quite a robust individual financial coaching and counseling program that they run. Are you able to save and invest in your future? So, save for college, save for home ownership, save for those big things, be a small business owner. And then the fourth thing is, are your assets protected? So are we protecting you from predatory practices that can deplete your wealth? >> And why did you decide to go from the city, from a public organization to a more private organization, like SaverLife? >> Leigh: You know, it was a interesting story. So we had worked with SaverLife when it was known as EARN, at the city. So the organization was actually really closely partnered with us, so I knew them and I knew their work. So there was a couple of reasons. I became really intrigued by this idea that being here in Silicon Valley, we really should start putting the types of technology that are so transformative, really putting that to work for everybody, right? And I had been an advisor, on an advisory board to for-profit fintech starter. And I thought, "Oh, if we could take that type of tech, "and use it to help low income people "build wealth in the US, "that could be really transformative." So that was the first reason. The second reason was really thinking about the scope of this problem, and when you work for the local government, you see that trajectory, that, you know, the traffic ticket that turned into a lost drivers license that turned into a lost job, that turned into an eviction, right? Like, you see those types of issues play out, over and over in people's lives. So the idea that half of America doesn't have four or five hundred bucks, and we could actually do something about that, was really impactful to me. And then the third reason was, you know, I loved working for the San Francisco treasurer, who is amazing, but I kind of felt, as a woman, that I wanted to lead an organization in my own right. And that I had challenged myself that, I had a personal goal that if the opportunity came up, to be that leader that I was going to challenge myself to take it. And so when the opportunity came up, I just went for it. >> And what challenges did you face to become the CEO? >> I think, you know, a lot of the challenges first were within myself, you know? Like, there's a lot that goes into being a non-profit CEO, you know? You have, obviously, you're working on some of the biggest problems that are out there, and you're doing it with so few resources, you know? And so, is that kind of, you know that saying about Ginger Rogers doing everything that Fred Astaire did but backwards and in heels, it's kind of like that, right? You're trying to solve really, really, really big problems that are deeply entrenched, like half of America doesn't have $400. There's a lot of reasons for that, right? And then you're trying to do it by cobbling together philanthropic resources to make that happen. So, I think that was a challenge, like would it be a success? And then at the time, this organization was making in the midst of this massive transformation, you know? So going from seeing clients one on one in the office, to launching and building a scalable tech platform. And I don't have a tech background, you know? I can sometimes use my phone, you know? Like, that's, it's not my thing. But I was able to understand the potential. And so that was what really drew me there to challenge myself to be like, okay, well, there's a lot of people around here that have managed to figure this out, maybe I can figure it out, too. >> Sonia: Yeah, absolutely. So when we talk about people being unbanked, can you tell us more about what unbanked means and what it means for today? >> Leigh: Yeah, so when we talk about access to banking, and mainstream financial services, we usually separate that into two buckets, right? So you have unbanked, which means, people who have no formal relationship with a bank or credit union. So, you don't have a checking account, you don't have a savings account, you're going to a check cashing place, you're paying a fee, quite high fee, to turn your paycheck or whatever into cash, you're paying your bills with money orders, you know, that kind of thing. Then there's a larger category of people that are called underbanked. And so, those are people who may have that checking account relationship with a bank or a credit union, but they're still using these types of alternative services. So that could be money orders, it could be high cost predatory pay day lending, auto title lending, like these, kind of, systems that are outside of mainstream finance. And that actually affects quite a lot of people here in the US. About, I think, 7 to 8% of people are completely unbanked, but a much more significant portion are considered underbanked. And I think there are a lot of reasons for that, it's usually split about 50-50 between people who have never had an account before. So those may be people who don't think banks are for them, don't feel welcome in that environment, don't trust banks, you know, so those are some of the reasons. But then the other half of people who are unbanked is because they've had bad or negative experiences with banking, and they've made a decision that banking didn't work for them. It was too costly, often that's the reason, hidden fees, overdraft fees, those types of penalties, and just decided that, you know what, it was better for me to manage my money in a different way. >> And how has SaverLife helped these people feel more secure in their financial investments? >> Leigh: So when we first launched SaverLife, it's gone through so many, so much. So much transformation and change over the years, as we've been, really adopting some of those tech based practices around iteration, and being user driven, and really trying to deliver something that will work for people. So what we heard when we first launched, was, you know, I know that saving is something I need to do for myself and my family, I think pretty much everybody knows and understands that, but it's too hard for me right now, you know? Either I've lost my job, I've been, I've had an illness, or a family member's had an illness, a lot of real reasons why people are unable to do that. And so people would say, "But I really want to get there, "so what can you do to help me?" So, at SaverLife specifically, we work with large numbers of people, we have about a quarter of a million people who've signed up for SaverLife in the last three years, which is really cool. We went from serving ten thousand people in a decade, actually six thousand people in a decade, to 250 thousand people in three years, which is pretty cool. So that shows us that there's a big need and interest for this. So anyone that goes to saverlife.org and signs up is going to get weekly financial coaching content from a certified financial coach who specializes in helping people with lower incomes to build wealth. If you link your account to our platform, you're going to qualify to win prizes for saving your own money. So it's kind of like this no-lose lottery in a way, like, you gain 'cause you're saving, and you have the opportunity to win money, and it's completely free. So, there's a lot of real benefits that we have on the platform that are designed specifically to help people who are struggling financially. >> Well, that's awesome. Leigh, thank you so much for being on theCUBE and thank you for your insight. >> Thanks so much for having me. >> Absolutely. >> I enjoyed speaking with you. >> I'm Sonia Tagare, thank you for watching this CUBE conversation. See you next time. (funky music)

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the queue covering your red hat. Some twenty nineteen. You buy bread. >> Oh, good afternoon. And welcome back as the Cube continues our live coverage. Exclusive coverage of Redhead Summit twenty nineteen here in Boston. Some nine thousand strong attendees here. Key notes have been jam packed, but we just finished our afternoon session not too long ago again. Very well attended. Dynamic speakers stew Minimum. John Walls. We're joined now by Lee Dae. Who's the Vice president of Marketing Communications? That Red Hatley. Good to see you. I see you and Michael brats, who was a teacher of English as a second language of Franklin Middle School in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Mr B. Good to see you, sir. And that's what your your students call you, Mr B. Is that right? What they do, we saw that way. Might just follow through on that tradition right now. All right, let's talk about why the two of you are here together. And I know you're Michael School has an interesting history that they've been kind of following somewhat independently, you know, in terms of open source and work. And only you found them through your marketing work some really very interesting. Two avenues that you have on your platform. So tell me a little bit about how how you got here. And then we'LL get into it after that. >> Okay, Great. So Red Hat has a program called co lab and this sir program where we go into schools and we teach kids how to code. So we do things like circuit boards and programming on raspberry pies. Kids have program raspberry pies into cameras to go around cities and take pictures. And we have had collapse in many cities, and we hadn't hit the Midwest. And we chose Minneapolis. And we found, fortunately, Franklin Middle School in that great group of girls and two awesome teachers that are very inspirational on, So the relationship didn't stop it. That week of coal lab, we have stayed in touch, and here at the summit, we've showcased the work in the police ship that we have together. Yeah, >> and I know a lot of the focus that the program is toward, uh, appealing to younger ladies. You know, young girls trying to get them or involved in stem education. We just had the two award winners for the women and open source with us just a few moments ago. So this is Ahh, a company wide. Durant wants a directive initiative that you said, Okay, we we have a responsibility, and we think we have a role here to play >> absolutely well. It's important to us to see the next generation of technologists. And when you feel like women, especially young women sometimes feel like technology is inaccessible to them, and they're not often in technology programs and university. So it's our initiative. Teo help young people feel comfortable and good about technology and that they can actually code. And they can actually do things that they didn't think were possible to them previously. >> So, Mr B. Help us understand how this fixing curriculum and give us a little bit of the story of how it went down. >> Well, it's funny asset. I mean, this opportunity for us is a home run out the part because we're a steam school science, technology, engineering, arts in math. So today, not only did our students perform on the main stage a song that we were able to collaborate right and go through a >> whole production process >> with music were also able to on there right now as we speak down running a booth, building circuits, presenting those circuits, presenting those circuit boards, and collaborating altogether down there with attendees of this conference right now. So, I mean, we're covering every one of those steam components, basically, in one project, one large scale technology project. So this opportunity homeland out the >> part. >> I love that because that was the first thing I went to mind. I heard photography involved. You say steam and so much, you know, we can't just have tech for Tex take. You know, I worried I studied engineering and, like, things like design and those kind of things right weren't in the curriculum. But you know what? I went to school. Creative side. Yeah. How important is that? You kind of get especially think young people get the enthusiasm going. That creative side would, you know, get them deeper into it. >> Well, you know, I always look att, individual students. Everybody has their individual gifts and talents, and it's about, you know, finding those leadership skills within each one of those gifts. And so within this, you're able to find someone that might be more creative in one area, maybe more technical and more, you know, logic orientated in other areas. So with that, you're able to just have Mohr a broader spectrum to be ableto find people's individual gives in towns and for them to in the collaboration also contribute their gifts and talents in different avenues instead of it just being one lane like just this part of technology or just this part of production and just this part of design were able to kind of integrate all of that into one thing and to take it one step further. After we did the, um So Cola came out with their mobile container to US Bank Stadium in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and it was right downtown, right outside of where our football team players brand new stadium Super Bowl is is there two years ago now And, um, so with our students being there after we got done with that, that cold lamb, when they were asking us, you know, to take it a step further in the classroom are students actually designed with our future boys Lo Bill Future Girls logo a card and then presented it to Red hat and they ended up printing off the cars and they were able to use it to build the circuit. So we weren't just using the coal lab cars. But we also got to design our own, too. >> So, you know, you said future boy's feet. So that's that's a new organization, the club that you formed the school Future Boys and Girls Club for the express purpose of what? >> Well, so we actually tie in all different content areas into assault. Obviously, this is just the future girls that are here in Boston and did the technology side with us and that parts of Spain the cold because it's an initiative for girls in technology but of the future boys and girls, uh, overall program. We encompass a lot of different continent as we integrate performing arts with academics and all the components of esteem school, um, into learning. And we do interest based learning. We do project based learning, and basically, you know, kids are learning a lot without realizing how much they're really learning, you know, and we make it fun and relevant. But we also teach the leadership skills in the hard work that goes in with it. And I mean, even just coming out here to Boston for this, uh, for this opportunity here in this summit, I mean, the amount of work that it took for the students to get here and the process, the ups and downs, especially with middle school students. You know, the marathon, not a sprint mentality, you know, has been absolutely amazing. >> Good luck with that eye. Well, >> I always say I >> haven't had a bad day yet. Just an overstimulating one. >> So lately, you know, we love having stories on the Cube and especially tech for good is something that we always get a good dose here at Red had some it. You know what else can share some of the open tour stories that were going on around the event? >> We're really thrilled. Today. We're launching our newest open source story, which is about agriculture and which we choose topics with open source stories that are important every everyone so medicine, helping to find cures for cancer, even our government and artificial intelligence. And today it's about open hardware and open agriculture. And we're launching a new film this afternoon. >> It's all future farming, right? Right. That that's the viewing today. >> Yes, and we had someone showing their their farming computer on our stage, and it's actually done in Summit >> Show for today. So you've got the open studio, you know, working and you have a number of projects. I assume this fell into one of those slots right where you were Using one of those platforms to feature great work of future farming is another example of this, But But you have some, I think, pretty neat things that you've created some slots that give you a chance to promote open source in a very practical and very relatable way. >> Yes, exactly. So our Opens our open studio is our internal creative community agency. But we do get ideas from everyone around, you know, around the world. So wait, get ideas about open agriculture, eh? I, uh, what we can do with kids and programming with kids. And then we take those ideas into the open studio and it is a meritocracy. So the best ideas when and that's what we choose to bring to life. And we have designers and writers and filmmakers and strategist and a whole group of people that make up the open studio inside a red hat >> And you've done a new feature, Frank. >> Yes. So, yeah. We work together to create the container that doctor be mentioned and to create the container. And then we work. When >> you have you >> have. You know, one of the girls Taylor actually taught me just now I am not technical. I will just give that caveat. But they they make, they made circuit boards, and they're making circuit boards here. Some issue and mine doesn't work. So don't That's okay. Just, basically were you can see here we have different designs that are attendees can choose from, and then we have electrical tape that you are sorry, competent and an led light. And so the idea is to toe form a circuit and to have led light item the card. That's great. So one of the one of the girls actually taught me how to make it, but I think I didn't follow >> her. Instructed you to go back to school. Wouldn't be the first time that I would have fallen apart either on that. So where Michael, Where would you be now without red hat? Or, you know, you were doing your own thing right independently. But now you've received some unexpected support. Where would you be? You think was out that help. And how much of a difference have they made >> you? Well, let me tell you. I mean, you know, when we look at it being an after school program, the amount of enrichment and opportunities that redhead has created for us has been, honestly, just unbelievable. It's been first class, and we're so appreciative. I mean, even even in our meeting with the future girls last night, we just talked about gratitude and how grateful we are for it. I mean, when you look at this circuit, this is an abbreviated version of what the students actually participate in. This is, you know, just a one one, uh, one led light and a small formation our students were doing. I think there were seven or eight on ours. And so the amount of learning in the modern opportunity that this presented to him not only have they learned how to do the technical piece of it, they've learned howto present. They've learned howto speak and present. They've learned howto call lab, collaborate, work together on huge levels, and I mean, they learned what they can take on an airplane, you know, coming out here. So I mean, the amount of things that through the learning process of, like, eye color, large scale technology project that we've been participating since October since they brought the mobile lab out to Minneapolis. I called a large scale tech, you know, technology project, and going through that whole process has been huge. And let me tell you this as a teacher and those that are parents you're competing was so much in this day and age to keep kids attention, right? I mean, everything is swiped the phone every which way and everything. So instant gratification. So for students to actually engage in this cola program for to be set up so well from Red Hat and to actually stick with it and stay engaged with it really speaks volumes denying the program. But also, you know, our students staying engaged with it, but they've they've stuck with it, they've been engaged, and it's very interest based, the project I've seen it through. But then also the renewed opportunities and being ableto one of the things on our rubric as the teacher is toe expand and extend the learning I don't mean to be long winded, but we wanted, you know, expand on the learning that's already taken place and being out here, it's just it's just a continuous continuation of the learning, you know, not just one level going to next level going on next long light, next level. And that's that, honestly, is where the real learning really takes place. >> So, Michael, you know, from its very nature being an open source company, you know, Red Hat talks a lot about it. Ecosystem in community. If I five red right in the notes, they're you know, your student really getting the value and understanding of community. There's something about they wrote a song. Talk >> about that. We become stronger. Yeah, that's the name of the song is we become stronger And you know what the idea was. We were looking at the power point for this summer and for this summit, and in that there was, uh there was a phrase that said ideas become stronger and that's the collaboration. And so we started tossed around ideas and things like that were like, Well, we liked the idea of stronger, and then we're like, Well, this is more of the coal lab experience, not just the ideas of the technical side. And that's why we become stronger. And yet we developed a song specifically for this summit. I think you go top for, you know. >> Yeah, the performance was amazing. >> Yeah, you don't want >> one top forty, to be honest with you, but no. I mean, uh, you know, and that was another whole another phase, you know, like, I talked about the steam side of the school. Um uh, integrating the arts in and the whole production side of that, you know, it was a lot of work and another project, but it was another area of content that we're able to integrate into this project, and, uh, and we're able to perform it on stage. So, like I said, they literally just got off stage performing. We become stronger singing the whole production of song a dance routine choreography and then went straight to the boot to now present circuits and teach attendees here at the summit howto build a circuit. I don't know how much better can get in that. >> That is so cool. That's great. Now is this the song that you recorded in the same studio. Lenny Kravitz. Atlantis More. Tell me you didn't like that, huh? >> I mean, you know, it's all right. >> That's good. That's great. Congratulations, Roy. On this collaboration, it's really it is exciting to see what they're doing to inspire young people on Michael. I can tell you like your job. Don't you love it? I love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, keep up the great work. And we appreciate the time here. And I look forward to hearing that song. Maybe if it hits, you know, the ice store. You know, Apple Store, maybe, You know, maybe good things will happen, right? Hey, you never know. She's Vice president marketing. We're gonna figure this. I'm checking out. I tio go by weight, become stronger. Thanks, Michael. We appreciate Lee. Thank you for having me back with more. Here on the Cube. You're watching our coverage, right? Had some twenty nineteen, but

>> Live from Washington, D.C., it's theCUBE! Covering Inforum D.C. 2018. Brought to you by Infor. >> Well, welcome back to Washington, D.C., We are alive here at the Convention Center at Inforum 18, along with Dave Vellante, I'm John Walls. It's a pleasure now, welcome to theCUBE, Leigh Martin, who is the Senior Director of the Dynamic Science Labs at Infor, and good afternoon to you Leigh! >> Good afternoon, thank you for having me. >> Thanks for comin' on. >> Thank you for being here. Alright, well tell us about the Labs first off, obviously, data science is a big push at Infor. What do you do there, and then why is data science such a big deal? >> So Dynamic Science Labs is based in Cambridge, Massachusetts, we have about 20 scientists with backgrounds in math and science areas, so typically PhDs in Statistics and Operations Research, and those types of areas. And, we've really been working over the last several years to build solutions for Infor customers that are Math and Science based. So, we work directly with customers, typically through proof of concept, so we'll work directly with customers, we'll bring in their data, and we will build a solution around it. We like to see them implement it, and make sure we understand that they're getting the value back that we expect them to have. Once we prove out that piece of it, then we look for ways to deliver it to the larger group of Infor customers, typically through one of the Cloud Suites, perhaps functionality, that's built into a Cloud Suite, or something like that. >> Well, give me an example, I mean it's so, as you think-- you're saying that you're using data that's math and science based, but, for application development or solution development if you will. How? >> So, I'll give you an example, so we have a solution called Inventory Intelligence for Healthcare, it's moving towards a more generalized name of Inventory Intelligence, because we're going to move it out of the healthcare space and into other industries, but this is a product that we built over the last couple of years. We worked with a couple of customers, we brought in their loss and data, so their loss in customers, we bring the data into an area where we can work on it, we have a scientist in our team, actually, she's one of the Senior Directors in the team, Dawn Rose, who led the effort to design and build this, design and build the algorithm underlying the product; and what it essentially does is, it allows hospitals to find the right level of inventory. Most hospitals are overstocked, so this gives them an opportunity to bring down their inventory levels, to a manageable place without increasing stockouts, so obviously, it's very important in healthcare, that you're not having a lot of stockouts. And so, we spent a lot of time working with these customers, really understanding what the data was like that they were giving to us, and then Dawn and her team built the algorithm that essentially says, here's what you've done historically, right? So it's based on historic data, at the item level, at the location level. What've you done historically, and how can we project out the levels you should have going forward, so that they're at the right level where you're saving money, but again, you're not increasing stockouts, so. So, it's a lot of time and effort to bring those pieces together and build that algorithm, and then test it out with the customers, try it out a couple of times, you make some tweaks based on their business process and exactly how it works. And then, like I said, we've now built that out into originally a stand-alone application, and in about a month, we're going to go live in Cloud Suite Financials, so it's going to be a piece of functionality inside of Cloud Suite Financials. >> So, John, if I may, >> Please. >> I'm going to digress for a moment here because the first data scientist that I ever interviewed was the famous Hilary Mason, who's of course now at Cloudera, but, and she told me at the time that the data scientist is a part mathematician, part scientist, part statistician, part data hacker, part developer, and part artist. >> Right. (laughs) >> So, you know it's an amazing field that Hal Varian, who is the Google Economist said, "It's going to be the hottest field, in the next 10 years." And this is sort of proven true, but Leigh, my question is, so you guys are practitioners of data science, and then you bring that into your product, and what we hear from a lot of data scientists, other than that sort of, you know, panoply of skill sets, is, they spend more time wrangling data, and the tooling isn't there for collaboration. How are you guys dealing with that? How has that changed inside of Infor? >> It is true. And we actually really focus on first making sure we understand the data and the context of the data, so it's really important if you want to solve a particular business problem that a customer has, to make sure you understand exactly what is the definition of each and every piece of data that's in all of those fields that they sent over to you, before you try to put 'em inside an algorithm and make them do something for you. So it is very true that we spend a lot of time cleaning and understanding data before we ever dive into the problem solving aspect of it. And to your point, there is a whole list of other things that we do after we get through that phase, but it's still something we spend a lot of time on today, and that has been the case for, a long time now. We, wherever we can, we apply new tools and new techniques, but actually just the simple act of going in there and saying, "What am I looking at, how does it relate?" Let me ask the customer to clarify this to make sure I understand exactly what it means. That part doesn't go away, because we're really focused on solving the customer solution and then making sure that we can apply that to other customers, so really knowing what the data is that we're working with is key. So I don't think that part has actually changed too much, there are certainly tools that you can look at. People talk a lot about visualization, so you can start thinking, "Okay, how can I use some visualization to help me understand the data better?" But, just that, that whole act of understanding data is key and core to what we do, because, we want to build the solution that really answers the answers the business problem. >> The other thing that we hear a lot from data scientists is that, they help you figure out what questions you actually have to ask. So, it sort of starts with the data, they analyze the data, maybe you visualize the data, as you just pointed out, and all these questions pop out. So what is the process that you guys use? You have the data, you've got the data scientist, you're looking at the data, you're probably asking all these questions. You get, of course, get questions from your customers as well. You're building models maybe to address those questions, training the models to get better and better and better, and then you infuse that into your software. So, maybe, is that the process? Is it a little more complicated than that? Maybe you could fill in the gaps. >> Yeah, so, I, my personal opinion, and I think many of my colleagues would agree with me on this is, starting with the business problem, for us, is really the key. There are ways to go about looking at the data and then pulling out the questions from the data, but generally, that is a long and involved process. Because, it takes a lot of time to really get that deep into the data. So when we work, we really start with, what's the business problem that the customer's trying to solve? And then, what's the data that needs to be available for us to be able to solve that? And then, build the algorithm around that. So for us, it's really starting with the business problem. >> Okay, so what are some of the big problems? We heard this morning, that there's a problem in that, there's more job openings than there are candidates, and productivity, business productivity is not being impacted. So there are two big chewy problems that data scientists could maybe attack, and you guys seem to be passionate about those, so. How does data science help solve those problems? >> So, I think that, at Infor, I'll start off by saying at Infor there's actually, I talked about the folks that are in our office in Cambridge, but there's quite a bit of data science going on outside of our team, and we are the data science team, but there are lots of places inside of Infor where this is happening. Either in products that contains some sort of algorithmic approach, the HCM team for sure, the talent science team which works on HCM, that's a team that's led by Jill Strange, and we work with them on certain projects in certain areas. They are very focused on solving some of those people-related problems. For us, we work a little bit more on the, some of the other areas we work on is sort of the manufacturing and distribution areas, we work with the healthcare side of things, >> So supply chain, healthcare? >> Exactly. So some of the other areas, because they are, like I said, there are some strong teams out there that do data science, it's just, it's also incorporated with other things, like the talent science team. So, there's lots of examples of it out there. In terms of how we go about building it, so we, like I was saying, we work on answering the business, the business question upfront, understanding the data, and then, really sitting with the customer and building that out, and, so the problems that come to us are often through customers who have particular things that they want to answer. So, a lot of it is driven by customer questions, and particular problems that they're facing. Some of it is driven by us. We have some ideas about things that we think, would be really useful to customers. Either way, it ends up being a customer collaboration with us, with the product team, that eventually we'll want to roll it out too, to make sure that we're answering the problem in the way that the product team really feels it can be rolled out to customers, and better used, and more easily used by them. >> I presume it's a non-linear process, it's not like, that somebody comes to you with a problem, and it's okay, we're going to go look at that. Okay now, we got an answer, I mean it's-- Are you more embedded into the development process than that? Can you just explain that? >> So, we do have, we have a development team in Prague that does work with us, and it's depending on whether we think we're going to actually build a more-- a product with aspects to it like a UI, versus just a back end solution. Depends on how we've decided we want to proceed with it. so, for example, I was talking about Inventory Intelligence for Healthcare, we also have Pricing Science for Distribution, both of those were built initially with UIs on them, and customers could buy those separately. Now that we're in the Cloud Suites, that those are both being incorporated into the Cloud Suite. So, we have, going back to where I was talking about our team in Prague, we sometimes build product, sort of a fully encased product, working with them, and sometimes we work very closely with the development teams from the various Cloud Suites. And the product management team is always there to help us, to figure out sort of the long term plan and how the different pieces fit together. >> You know, kind of big picture, you've got AI right, and then machine learning, pumping all kinds of data your way. So, in a historical time frame, this is all pretty new, this confluence right? And in terms of development, but, where do you see it like 10 years from now, 20 years from now? What potential is there, we've talked about human potential, unlocking human potential, we'll unlock it with that kind of technology, what are we looking at, do you think? >> You know, I think that's such a fascinating area, and area of discussion, and sort of thinking, forward thinking. I do believe in sort of this idea of augmented intelligence, and I think Charles was talking a little bit about, about that this morning, although not in those particular terms; but this idea that computers and machines and technology will actually help us do better, and be better, and being more productive. So this idea of doing sort of the rote everyday tasks, that we no longer have to spend time doing, that'll free us up to think about the bigger problems, and hopefully, and my best self wants to say we'll work on famine, and poverty, and all those problems in the world that, really need our brains to focus on, and work. And the other interesting part of it is, if you think about, sort of the concept of singularity, and are computers ever going to actually be able to think for themselves? That's sort of another interesting piece when you talk about what's going to happen down the line. Maybe it won't happen in 10 years, maybe it will never happen, but there's definitely a lot of people out there, who are well known in sort of tech and science who talk about that, and talk about the fears related to that. That's a whole other piece, but it's fascinating to think about 10 years, 20 years from now, where we are going to be on that spectrum? >> How do you guys think about bias in AI and data science, because, humans express bias, tribalism, that's inherent in human nature. If machines are sort of mimicking humans, how do you deal with that and adjudicate? >> Yeah, and it's definitely a concern, it's another, there's a lot of writings out there and articles out there right now about bias in machine learning and in AI, and it's definitely a concern. I actually read, so, just being aware of it, I think is the first step, right? Because, as scientists and developers develop these algorithms, going into it consciously knowing that this is something they have to protect against, I think is the first step, for sure. And then, I was just reading an article just recently about another company (laughs) who is building sort of a, a bias tracker, so, a way to actually monitor your algorithm and identify places where there is perhaps bias coming in. So, I do think we'll see, we'll start to see more of those things, it gets very complicated, because when you start talking about deep learning and networks and AI, it's very difficult to actually understand what's going on under the covers, right? It's really hard to get in and say this is the reason why, your AI told you this, that's very hard to do. So, it's not going to be an easy process but, I think that we're going to start to see that kind of technology come. >> Well, we heard this morning about some sort of systems that could help, my interpretation, automate, speed up, and minimize the hassle of performance reviews. >> Yes. (laughs) >> And that's the classic example of, an assertive woman is called abrasive or aggressive, an assertive man is called a great leader, so it's just a classic example of bias. I mentioned Hilary Mason, rock star data scientist happens to be a woman, you happen to be a woman. Your thoughts as a woman in tech, and maybe, can AI help resolve some of those biases? >> Yeah. Well, first of all I want to say, I'm very pleased to work in an organization where we have some very strong leaders, who happen to be women, so I mentioned Dawn Rose, who designed our IIH solution, I mentioned Jill Strange, who runs the talent science organization. Half of my team is women, so, particularly inside of sort of the science area inside of Infor, I've been very pleased with the way we've built out some of that skill set. And, I'm also an active member of WIN, so the Women's Infor Network is something I'm very involved with, so, I meet a lot of people across our organization, a lot of women across our organization who have, are just really strong technology supporters, really intelligent, sort of go-getter type of people, and it's great to see that inside of Infor. I think there's a lot of work to be done, for sure. And you can always find stories, from other, whether it's coming out of Silicon Valley, or other places where you hear some, really sort of arcane sounding things that are still happening in the industry, and so, some of those things it's, it's disappointing, certainly to hear that. But I think, Van Jones said something this morning about how, and I liked the way he said it, and I'm not going to be able say it exactly, but he said something along the lines of, "The ground is there, the formation is starting, to get us moving in the right direction." and I think, I'm hopeful for the future, that we're heading in that way, and I think, you know, again, he sort of said something like, "Once the ground swell starts going in that direction, people will really jump in, and will see the benefits of being more diverse." Whether it's across, having more women, or having more people of color, however things expand, and that's just going to make us all better, and more efficient, and more productive, and I think that's a great thing. >> Well, and I think there's a spectrum, right? And on one side of the spectrum, there's intolerable and unacceptable behavior, which is just, should be zero tolerance in my opinion, and the passion of ours in theCUBE. The other side of that spectrum is inclusion, and it's a challenge that we have as a small company, and I remember having a conversation, earlier this year with an individual. And we talk about quotas, and I don't think that's the answer. Her comment was, "No, that's not the answer, you have to endeavor to reach deeper beyond your existing network." Which is hard sometimes for us, 'cause you're so busy, you're running around, it's like okay it's the convenient thing to do. But you got to peel the onion on that network, and actually take the extra time and make it a priority. I mean, your thoughts on that? >> No, I think that's a good point, I mean, if I think about who my circle is, right? And the people that I know and I interact with. If I only reach out to the smallest group of people, I'm not getting really out beyond my initial circle. So I think that's a very good point, and I think that that's-- we have to find ways to be more interactive, and pull from different areas. And I think it's interesting, so coming back to data science for a minute, if you sort of think about the evolution of where we got to, how we got to today where, now we're really pulling people from science areas, and math areas, and technology areas, and data scientists are coming from lots of places, right? And you don't always have to have a PhD, right? You don't necessary have to come up through that system to be a good data scientist, and I think, to see more of that, and really people going beyond, beyond just sort of the traditional circles and the traditional paths to really find people that you wouldn't normally identify, to bring into that, that path, is going to help us, just in general, be more diverse in our approach. >> Well it certainly it seems like it's embedded in the company culture. I think the great reason for you to be so optimistic going forward, not only about your job, but about the way companies going into that doing your job. >> What would you advise, young people generally, who want to crack into the data science field, but specifically, women, who have clearly, are underrepresented in technology? >> Yeah, so, I think the, I think we're starting to see more and more women enter the field, again it's one of those, people know it, and so there's less of a-- because people are aware of it, there's more tendency to be more inclusive. But I definitely think, just go for it, right? I mean if it's something you're interested in, and you want to try it out, go to a coding camp, and take a science class, and there's so many online resources now, I mean there's, the massive online courses that you can take. So, even if you're hesitant about it, there are ways you can kind of be at home, and try it out, and see if that's the right thing for you. >> Just dip your toe in the water. >> Yes, exactly, exactly! Try it out and see, and then just decide if that's the right thing for you, but I think there's a lot of different ways to sort of check it out. Again, you can take a course, you can actually get a degree, there's a wide range of things that you can do to kind of experiment with it, and then find out if that's right for you. >> And if you're not happy with the hiring opportunities out there, just start a company, that's my advice. >> That's right. (laughing together) >> Agreed, I definitely agree! >> We thank you-- we appreciate the time, and great advice, too. >> Thank you so much. >> Leigh Martin joining us here at Inforum 18, we are live in Washington, D.C., you're watching the exclusive coverage, right here, on theCUBE. (bubbly music)

(upbeat electronic music) >> Announcer: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Red Hat Summit 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. This is theCUBE, we're live in San Francisco, California, here at Moscone West, Red Hat Summit 2018. I'm John Furrier, the co-host of theCUBE. We've got three great guests, exciting segment. Really looking at the future of computer programming, the youth in our generation, the young minds, and the award winners here at Red Hat Summit. Our three guests are Leigh Day, Vice Present of Marketing and Communications at Red Hat. Ellie Galloway with Jewelbots, and Sara Chipps, CTO at Jewelbots Thanks for spending the time and coming on. I really appreciate it. Love this story because I always, as a computer person, I always love getting nerdy, but now nerd is the new cool. So starting young and coding is not just for guys anymore, it's for everybody. So congratulations on your success. Take a minute to explain what's happened here, because the folks watching don't know what happened yesterday. You guys were featured at part of Open Source Stars. Leigh, talk about the story. >> So about three years ago, the Red Hat Marketing Communications Group decided that they needed a passion project, something that would make them feel more energized about coming to work and not just selling products, but telling genuine stories about people. We started our Open Source Stories films series, and that has turned into Open Source Stories Live as well. So yesterday we brought awesome stories, like Jewelbots to our stage to tell the story of children and others getting involved in coding. And Ellie and Femmie on our stage, talking about how people should code for good and we really love that message and applaud that. >> And coding is so social because it's fun. So talk about Jewelbots and what's happening here? So how did this get started? And then I'll go into some specific questions for the young future star here. (laughter) Sara, how did it all get started? >> Yeah, so Jewelbots got started out of a desire to make a product for young girls, to get them excited about coding. So we talked to about 200 girls and we asked them what was interesting to them, and over and over from them we heard that their friendships are really important to them. And so when we were talking to them about a bracelet that lights up when your friends are nearby and you can use it to send secret messages, they got really excited. And so that's what we built and we made it open source so they would code it as well. >> How did it all get started? What was the motivation, what motivated you to take on this project? >> Good question. So I've been a software developer for seventeen years, I was five years into my career before I worked with another woman and it was another five years after that, before I worked with another one. So I really, you know, I love this career and I wanted to figure out a way to get more women excited about doing it. So, talking to my male peers, I heard from them that they started about middle school age, and so I wanted to find something for girls that would also inspire them in that way. >> That's awesome, thank you so much for doing that. I love the story, it's super important. Now, how did you get involved? You just loved programming? You wake up one day and say, hey, I love programming? How did you get involved? >> Well first, me and my dad, my dad works for Microsoft, he helped me code a game in Unity and so I love coding games so much that later he showed me Minecraft min code. And so I got involved in that, by then I kind of knew how to code and everything, so I only asked my dad for help if I absolutely needed it. And then, since my dad new Sara Chipps from Microsoft, he showed me Jewelbot one day when I got home from school and I've been on my own programming since then. >> John: You having fun? >> I am. >> What's the favorite thing about coding that you like? >> I love solving problems, and so solving problems is probably my favorite part in coding. I solve a lot of problems and inventions, tiny ones and just kind of figuring things out. >> Did you get all your friends involved? Did you spread it around to your friend group? >> I am getting some friends involved. In my YouTube channel I have someone I shared Jewel a lot with and showed how to code, and yeah. And at school, at my next school, I am going to create a Jewelbots club, and I'm hoping I can get a lot of people to join. >> So is it fun, is Jewelbot fun? I mean, how does it work, how does he Jewelbot work? So I wear a bracelet and then it lights up? So how does the code work? Is it an io sensor in the front end? How does it work? >> It works by Bluetooth. Do you mean friendship coding mode, or? >> Friendship coding mode. >> Okay, friendship coding mode. Yeah, you use Bluetooth for friendship coding mode. You pair Jewelbots together and it's pretty simple. You don't need a program, you can start right away without any program and it already has a default on it, so yeah. >> Do you have an agreement with Snapchat yet? Because that would be a great geofence feature, if I had like a Jewelbot with Snapchat integration. >> You can communicate by vibrates but there's not a Snapchat picture. >> Not yet, we'll make sure that we get that back and I'll get my daughter involved to jump in. How about the community aspect? I love the story, because what it does, it makes it fun. You don't want coding to be like eating spinach or, you know, taking out the trash or sweeping, you know, the floor up, you want to make it fun. Kids want to make it fun and gaming is key. When did it start clicking with you, Sara? You know, when did it start getting momentum? >> Yeah, well I think one thing that we realized, is that coding doesn't have to be a lonely activity, it doesn't have to be just one person sitting in a basement coding, it could be really anyone, and it's such a social thing, you know? All coders are self-taught and we all learn from each other, so having the ability to have a community that you can reach out to that are excited to help you and that kind of thing was a really important part of what we were building. >> So you guys were on stage... So tell about what happened here, 'cause folks didn't get to see and they can see it online after on a replay, you guys are out on stage, did you do like a demo? Tell us what happened on stage. >> We had a whole afternoon session that was focused on showcasing collaboration, young people coding, STEM. We had a group from our co-op, alumni come to the stage and talk about their experiences with Co.Lab, programming Raspberry Pis to take pictures. These are middle school girls, we've done programs with them all over the east coast. Then we had our CMO talk about his open-source experience. We had Women Open Source Awards, and then Sara and Ellie came out and told the audience about Jewelbots and it was just an opportunity to shine a light on their awesome project and to showcase young women doing great things. And showing women that they should have the confidence to code alongside men. >> Yeah, great program, how does someone get involved? How can someone get involved with Red Hat's Open Stories and your communities with Jewelbots. What can you guys share? Is there locations or a web app? Is there something you can get involved in? How does someone get involved? >> Well, Red Hat, we have seven Open Source Stories films, that people can go online and watch. But then yet, there's 90 of them for an open-source story, OpenSourceStories@RedHat.com is a way to contribute to that. But we're always thinking about new ideas, taking contributions and love to hear about these stories. >> Sara, how do I get involved in the Jewelbots? For anyone else watching who might be inspired by this awesomeness you guys have going on here. Great practice, I love how you're doing this. How do they get involved with what you're doing? >> So, if you have young girls in your life Jewelbots.com, Amazon.com, Target.com is all where you can get Jewelbots. If you don't and you know some people that do, a lot of people have started hosting events around Jewelbots, so if people in your office might have daughters and they might be interested in something like that, that's something that we help people do, as well. >> That's great. Ellie, what's your thoughts on all this? This celebrity status you have? Your YouTube followers are going to go through the roof now. >> Yeah, since yesterday I've had over 75 new followers. >> John: Wow. >> So yeah, it's amazing. >> Can she say the name of her YouTube channel? >> Of course. >> EllieGJewelbots. >> EllieGJewelbots, we're going to promote it, make sure it's on the screen, guys, great program. I'm so excited for you, that's amazing, don't stop. It gets better, more fun every time. When you build cool stuff it's magical. And tell all your friends. Great stuff, thanks so much for doing this. Great program, thanks for coming on. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thanks for having us. It's theCUBE, live here. A really inspirational inspirational moment here, getting everyone started at the young age really kind of opens the aperture of all people, all diversity, inclusion and diversity, really critical part of the community paying it forward. Of course, theCUBE's doing our part here, be back with more live coverage after this short break. 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>>from around the globe. It's >>the Cube with digital coverage of Dev >>Ops Virtual Forum Brought to You by Broadcom. Welcome to Broadcom, Step Ups, Virtual Forum I and Lisa Martin and I'm joined by another Martin very socially. Distance from me all the way. Coming from Birmingham, England, is Glynn Martin, head of Q. A transformation at BT Glenn. It's great to have you on the program. >>Thank you, Lisa. I'm looking forward, Toa. >>As we said before, we went live to Martin's for the price of one in one segment. So this is gonna be an interesting segment, Guesses. What we're gonna do is Glen's gonna give us a really kind of deep inside out view of Dev ops. From an evolution perspective, Soglo's Let's start transformation is at the heart of what you dio. It's obviously been a very transformative year. How have the events of this year affected the transformation that you are so responsible for driving? >>Yeah. Thank you, Leigh. So I mean, yeah, it has been a difficult year Bond, although working for BT, which is ah, global telecommunications company. Relatively resilient, I suppose, as an industry through covert, it obviously still has been affected and has got its challenges on bond. If anything is actually caused us to accelerate of our transformation journey, you know, we had to do some great things during this time around. You know, in the UK for our emergency and health workers give them unlimited data and for vulnerable people to support them and that spent that we've had to deliver changes quickly. Um, but what? We want to be able to do it, deliver those kind of changes quickly, but sustainably for everything that we do, not just because there's an emergency eso we were already on the kind of journey to by John, but ever so ever more important now that we are what we're able to do, those that kind of work, do it more quickly on. But it works because the implications of it not working is could be terrible in terms of, you know, we've been supporting testing centers, new hospitals to treat covert patients, so we need to get it right and therefore the coverage of what we do, the quality of what we do and how quickly we do. It really has taken on a new scowling what was already a very competitive market within the telco industry within the UK. Um, you know, what I would say is that you know, we are under pressure to deliver more value, but we have small cost challenges. We have to obviously deal with the fact that you know, Cove in 19 has hit most industries kind of revenues and profits. So we've got this kind of paradox between having less cost, but they're having to deliver more value quicker on bond, you know, to higher quality. So, yeah, certainly the finances is on our minds. And that's why we need flexible models, cost models that allow us to kind of do growth. But we get that growth by showing that we're delivering value, especially in, you know, these times when there are financial challenges on companies. >>So one of the things that I want to ask you about again looking at, develops from the inside out on the evolution that you've seen you talked about the speed of things really accelerating in this last nine months or so. When we think Dev ops, we think speed. But one of the things I love to get your perspective on we've talked about in a number of the segments that we've done for this event is cultural change. What are some of the things that scene there as as needing to get, as you said, get things right but done so quickly to support essential businesses, essential workers? How have you seen that cultural shift? >>Yeah, I think you know, before, you know, test test team saw themselves of this part of the software delivery cycle. Andi, actually, now, really, our customers were expecting their quality and to deliver for our customers what they want. Quality has to be ingrained throughout the life cycle. Obviously that you know, there's lots of buzzwords like shift left. How do you do? Shift left testing. But for me, that's really instilling quality and given capabilities shared capabilities throughout the life cycle. That Dr you know, Dr Automation drive improvements. I always say that you know, you're only as good as your lowest common denominator on one thing that we're finding on our Dev Ops Journey Waas that we were you know, we would be trying thio do certain things quicker and had automated build automated tests. But if we were taking weeks to create test scripts or we were taking weeks to manly craft data, and even then when we had taken so long to do it that the coverage was quite poor and that led to lots of defects later in the lifecycle or even in in our production environment, we just couldn't afford to do that. And actually, you know, focusing on continuous testing over the last 9 to 12 months has really given us the ability Thio delivered quickly across the the whole life cycle and therefore actually go from doing a kind of semi agile kind of thing where we did you use the stories we did a few of the kind of, you know, as our ceremonies. But we weren't really deploying any quicker into production because, you know, our stakeholders were scared that we didn't have the same control that we had when we had more water for releases. And, you know, when way didn't think ourselves. So we've done a lot of work on every aspect, especially from a testing point of view, every aspect of every activity, rather than just looking at automated test, you know, whether it is actually creating the test in the first place, Whether it's doing security testing earlier in the light and performance testing. Learn the life cycle, etcetera. So, yeah, it Z It's been a riel key thing that for for C T for us to drive, develops, >>talk to me a little bit about your team. What are some of the shifts in terms of expectations that you're experiencing and how your team interacts with the internal folks from pipeline through life cycle? >>Yeah, we've done a lot of work on this, you know, there's a thing. I think people were pretty quiet. Customer experience. Gap. It reminds me of a cart, a Gilbert cartoon where, you know, we start with the requirements here on Do you know, we almost like a Chinese whisper effects and what we deliver eyes completely, completely different. So we think the testing team or the the delivery team, you know, you know, you think they've done a great job. This is what it said in the acceptance criteria, but then our customers the same Well, actually, that's not working. This isn't working, you know, on there's this kind of gap Way had a great launched this year of actual Requirement Society, one of the board common tools Onda that for the first time in in since I remember actually working within B. T, I had customers saying to may, Wow, you know, we want more of this. We want more projects, um, to have a actual requirements design on it because it allowed us to actually work with the business collaboratively. I mean, we talk about collaboration, but how do you actually, you know, do that have something that both the business on technical people can understand? And we've actually been working with the business using at our requirement. Designer Thio, you know, really look about what the requirements are. Tease out requirements to the hadn't even thought off and making sure that we've got high levels of test coverage. And so what we actually deliver at the end of it, not only have you been able Thio generate test more quickly, but we've got much higher test coverage and also can more smartly, you're using the kind of AI within the tour and with some of the other kind of pipeline tools actually deliver to choose the right tests on the bar, still actually doing a risk based testing approach. So that's been a great launched this year, but just the start of many kind of things that we're >>doing. But what I hear in that Glenn is a lot of positives that have come out of a very challenging situation. Uh, talk to me about it and I like that perspective. This is a very challenging time for everybody in the world, but it sounds like from a collaboration, perspective is you're right. We talk about that a lot critical with Dev Ops. But those challenges there you guys were able to overcome those pretty quickly. What other challenges did you face and figure out quickly enough to be able to pit it so fast? >>I mean, you talked about culture. I mean, you know, Bt is like most come countries companies. So, um, is very siloed. You know, we're still trying to work to become closer as a company. So I think there's a lot of challenges around. How do you integrate with other tools? How do you integrate with you know, the various different technologies and bt we have 58 different whitey stacks? That's not systems that stacks all of those stacks of can have, you know, hundreds of systems on we're trying to. We're gonna drive at the moment a simplified program where we're trying Thio, you know, reduce that number 2 14 stacks. And even then they'll be complexity behind the scenes that that we will be challenged. Maurin Mawr As we go forward, how do you actually hired that to our users on as an I T organization? How do we make ourselves Lena so that even when we you know, we've still got some of that legacy and we'll never fully get rid of it on that's the kind of trade off that we have to make. How do we actually deal with that and and hide that for my users a say and and and drive those programs so we can actually accelerate change. So we take, you know, reduce that kind of waste, and that kind of legacy costs out of our business. You know, the other thing is, well, beating. And I'm sure you know telecoms probably no difference to insurance or finance we've got You know, when you take the number of products that we do and then you combine them, the permutations are tens and hundreds of thousands of products. So we as a business to trying to simplify. We are trying Thio do that in a natural way and haven't trying to do agile in the proper way, you know, and really actually work it paste really deliver value. So I think what we're looking Maura, Maura, at the moment is actually, um is more value focus? Before we used to deliver changes, sometimes into production, someone had a great idea or it was a great idea nine months ago or 12 months ago. But actually, then we end up deploying it. And then we look at the the the users, you know, the usage of that product of that application or whatever it is on. It's not being used for six months, so we're getting much we haven't got, you know, because of the last 12 months, we certainly haven't got room for that kind of waste and you know, the for not really understanding the value of changes that we we are doing. So I think that's the most important thing at the moment is really taken that waste out. You know, there's lots of focus on things like flow management. What bits of the our process are actually taking too long, and we've We've started on that journey, but we've got a hell of a long way to go, you know, But that that involves looking every aspect off the kind of software delivery cycle. >>What are some? Because that that going from, what, 58 i t stocks down to 14 or whatever it's going to be go simplifying is sounds magical. Took everybody. It's a big challenge. What are some of the core technology capabilities that you see really as kind of essential for enabling that with this new way that you're working? >>Yeah. I mean, I think we've started on a continuous testing journey, and I think that's just the start. I mean, that's really, as I say, looking at every aspect off, you know, from a Q, a point of view. It's every aspect of what we dio. But it's also looking at, you know, we're starting to branch into more like a AI ops and, you know, really, the full life cycle on. But, you know, that's just a stepping stone onto, you know, I think oughta Nomics is the way forward, right? You know all of this kind of stuff that happens um, you know, monitoring, you know, monitoring systems, what's happening in production had to be feed that back. How do you get to a point where actually we think about a change on then suddenly it's in production safely. Or if it's not going to safety, it's automatically backing out. So, you know, it's a very, very long journey. But if we want Thio, you know, in a world where the pace is ever increasing the demands of the team and you know, with the pressures on at the moment where with we're being asked to do things, you know more efficiently Ondas leaving as possible. We need to be, you know, thinking about every part of the process. And how do we put the kind of stepping stones in players to lead us to a more automated kind of, you know, their future? >>Do you feel that that plant outcomes are starting to align with what's delivered? Given this massive shift that you're experiencing, >>I think it's starting to, and I think you know, Azzawi. Look at more of a value based approach on. Do you know a Zeiss? A princess was a kind of flight management. I think that's that will become ever evermore important. So I think it's starting to people. Certainly realized that, you know, people teams need to work together. You know, the kind of the cousin between business and ICT, especially as we go Teoh Mawr kind of sad space solutions, low cold solutions. You know there's not such a gap anymore. Actually, some of our business partners expects to be much more tech savvy. Eso I think you know, this is what we have to kind of appreciate. What is I ts role? How do we give the capabilities become more for centers of excellence rather than actually doing Mount amount of work And for May and from a testing point of view, you know, amount, amount of testing, actually, how do we automate that? How do we actually generate that instead of created? I think that's the kind of challenge going forward. >>What are some? As we look forward, what are some of the things that you would like to see implemented or deployed in the next say, 6 to 12 months as we hopefully round a corner with this pandemic? >>Yeah, I think you know, certainly for for where we are as a company from a Q A perspective. We are. Yeah, there's certain bits that we do Well, you know, we've started creating continuous delivery. A day evokes pipelines. Um, there's still manual aspects of that. So, you know, certainly for May I I've challenged my team with saying, How do we do an automated journey? So if I, you know, I put a requirement injera or value whoever it is, that's why. Then click a button on bond, you know, with either zero touch of one touch, then put that into production and have confidence that that has been done safely on that it works. And what happens if it doesn't work? So you know, that's that's the next in the next few months, that's what our concentration is about. But it's also about decision making, you know, how do we actually understand those value judgements? And I think there's lots of the things Dev ops, ai ops, kind of always that aspects of business operations. I think it's about having the information in one place to make those kind of decisions. How does it all tied together, as I say, even still with kind of Dev ops, we've still got elements within my company where we've got lots of different organizations doing some doing similar kind of things but the walking of working in silos Still. So I think, having a eye ops Aziz becomes more and more to the fore as we go to the cloud. And that's what we need to. You know, we're still very early on in our cloud journey, you know. So we need to make sure the technologies work with Cloud as well as you kind of legacy systems. But it's about bringing that all together and having a full visible pipeline. Everybody can see and make decisions against >>you said the word confidence, which jumped out at me right away. Because absolutely, you've gotta have be able to have confidence in what your team is delivering and how it's impacting the business and those customers. Last question for you is how would you advise your peers in a similar situation to leverage technology automation, for example, dev ops to be able to gain the confidence that they're making the right decisions for their business? >>Yeah, I mean, I think the the approach that we've taken actually is not started with technology we've actually taken human centered design a za core principle of what we dio within the i t part of BT. So by using humans tend to design. That means we talked to our customers. We understand their pain points, we map out their current processes on. But when we mapped out, those processes also understand their aspirations as well, you know, Where do they want to be in six months? You know, Do they want to be more agile and you know, or do they want Teoh? Is this apart their business that they want thio run better? We have to Then look at why that's not running well and then see what solutions are out there. We've been lucky that, you know, with our partnership with Broadcom within the P l. A. A lot of the tortures and the P l. A have directly answered some of the businesses problems. But I think by having those conversations and actually engaging with the business, um, you know, especially if the business hold the purse strings, which is you know, in some companies, including as they do there is that kind of, you know, almost by understanding their their pain points and then saying This is how we can solve your problem We've tended to be much more successful than trying Thio impose something and say We're here to technology that they don't quite understand doesn't really understand how it could have resonate with their problems. So I think that's the heart of it is really about, you know, getting looking at the data, looking at the processes, looking at where the kind of waste is on. Then actually then looking at the right solutions. And as I say, continuous testing is a massive for us. We've also got a good relationship with capitals looking at visual ai on. Actually, there's a common theme through that, and I mean, AI is becoming more and more prevalent, and I know yeah, sometimes what is A I and people have kind of the semantics of it. Is it true, ai or not? But yes, certainly, you know, AI and machine learning is becoming more and more prevalent in the way that we work, and it's allowing us to be much more effective, the quicker and what we do on being more accurate. You know, whether it's finding defects, running the right tests or, you know, being able to anticipate problems before they're happening in a production environment. >>Welcome. Thank you so much for giving us this sort of insight. Outlook at Dev Ops, sharing the successes that you're having taking those challenges, converting them toe opportunities and forgiving folks who might be in your shoes or maybe slightly behind advice. I'm sure they appreciate it. We appreciate your time. >>It's been an absolute pleasure, Really. Thank you for inviting me of Extremely enjoyed it. So thank you ever so much. >>Excellent. Me too. I've learned a lot for Glynn Martin and Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube?

>> Welcome to this Special Cube conversation. We're here in Mountain View, California. Pure storages headquarters on cash for street were here in the arcade of the main building, one of six buildings here in downtown where Pure has their contingent of offices. On joint cab itself was a C i o a pure formerly many, many years of it and running T operations and right of other work clothes. Great to see you. Thanks for From the time >> Great. Thanks for having me. So we're in the >> arcade here. All the old school stand up video games, but our generation, when we have to play videogames standing up but kind of speaks to the culture of pure What's your role of pure What do you do and how long you've been here? >> Okay, so I've been here appear for just about five months and and it's been great. I came on board is the CEO and, as you know, all companies air facing their challenges, going forward, way have ours for scaling is this Business continues to grow so super excited to be here and spent a lot of fun so far. >> So about your career before pure, where were you and how long you worked there. >> I you know, I spent a better part of my current ATT and T Amazing Company and was there for over twenty one years. Had a variety of rules, primarily always in the technology sides. So everything from the from application side two operations infrastructure, Teo, Project Management, Teo Technology, Innovation And then the last few years was was spent working on a lot of our network strategy. So what are we doing as a, um, as a business to kind of transform a teen tea service provider network? And how does that a line from a cloud and a technology for what we have been doing some cases on on the side >> and you've been on both side of the table. You you were a customer of pure. Now you work. If you were running well, I t Here's a CEO. Try and try and keep this transformation going. What's your take on the industry right now? Because it's interesting times as you know it is transforming. You got security front center roles were changing. Got skills, gaps. You get the cloud with scale, a lot of change, >> you know, and it's interesting. That happens that both big companies and smaller companies, so the transition had eighty having those same challenges. They look different here, appear because we are a little over nine year old company, and as you start to look at, we have the real benefit of being a little bit younger on the tech front and being so close to, you know, obviously, being in Silicon Valley, you're so close to all the VCs and the startups. You get to have a little bit of different flavor, but, you know, it's a huge transition. I think that all of us in the industry are really faced with the challenges of not just trying to transform your teams and the work and what they're doing, but then also enable technology that's going to bridges from what we have to do with today, and where do we think we're going to go? So I don't think that is any different on any of the companies. I think we're all in that same boat of saying, How do you make sure I have technology that's gonna live longer than you know, a year, three years? And then how do we have a workforce that can continue to grow and develop because, you know, we want to be able to have our talent stay with us and make those journeys with us >> and one things we to a lot of Cuban Aries over the past ten years. Certainly in it changes been constant theme. But what's interesting is his economic changed and look of skill gas. But economics have changed, and then the time to value the big long projects used to take months and months years right now, shorten those solo cycles have been accelerated down two months and days. Sometimes Frank, can you come and reactive economics and then time to value. >> You know, I think economics are. They're always in the forefront of every company, especially publicly traded companies that, you know you want to make sure we're turning the right value to our shareholders, and that's an important aspect. But I think the more the more important part of it is just trying to make sure that you can make decisions that can outlive kind of a shorter economic window they maybe had would have done in the past. So I think that's where all of us in in the space of CIA rolls or trying to really evaluate. How do you do that? How do you make sure that you could make those transitions and not have next year on Leigh Foundation, But be part of it to help you make some of that shift >> and the evidence on workload. I've heard the word workload was a tag cloud. I'd probably say workload would be the biggest font because, you know, workloads would you mean applications that have been around for a while? But more and more applications are coming. The migrating workload. So the cloud on premise So a lot of emphasis on workloads these days >> is that putting >> pressure on it is putting pressure on the operations. How do you see that? That whole workload thing evolving? >> Yeah, you know, I definitely do. So, you know, one of the one of big initiatives I ran eighteen t was migrating a thousand of our strategic applications onto ah nonprime private cloud. And it was all about not just the economics, but also the efficiency and the enablement for the business to move faster, you know, at a lower cost point. So that always tends to be your kind of bottom line part, but I think is I've come into pure and has You're trying to figure out how do you evolve our workloads of very different. We are very in our applications, like very different. So companies have different profiles of whether it's an application or workload. I think the other is It's a hyper focused around the user experience with, you know, so not just the end customer, but also the employees experience and what happens So, you know, when you talk about workloads, it's not just applications that heir business functions. They're also about. How do you make sure that our employees are having that great experience because you want to have that so that they can help to, you know, grow us as well and be productive in their roles? >> I wantto askyou one of the talk tracks I have on my notes here about pure specifically. But more generically, workloads are dominating conversation, but also technology selection and personnel selection are also tied to workloads, and some have said to me pick the right cloud for the right work. We'LL pick the right tool for the job. You hear that a lot. >> You did. What's your >> thoughts on that? Because this seems a kind of model of wars. Little bit, because the old school was Here's my suppliers. You pick them, they're all stand in the hall, come in with this general purpose. But now, with customization mohr agility, it seems to be that workloads and selection of tech and people are tied together. So >> yeah, no, I think you're right. I think that, um you know, part of our challenge is figuring out and this is me, her. A lot of us don't get yourself locked in And to that old notion of, you know, what you would have seen, you know, back in the day is you Did you pick a vendor and you kind of right that through whatever the challenge he had, I think the vendor community has also recognized that's not really the model they want to be in either. They really want to be a partner. So now what's about figuring out what I consider enablement? So can I use you to work on or to be optimized for a certain type of function? But can I put my work load somewhere else on DH? Do it So that's when one of things I've been surprised, that's probably more rapid shift is it's not just about Can I do it all myself or on Prem or with these set of vendors? It's to say I want to be able to actually move across. So can I have the flexibility and being realistic? But she can't have you? No total flexibility, everything. But you can't start to be prescriptive about certain areas and saying these type of applications are these functions or these workloads. I could get the largest amount of flexibility, but the's I'm actually okay saying most optimized should go here, whether it's on Prem off Prem hybrid. I think that's what we'LL start to see. A lot of >> we see that the cloud conversation. We're going to talk with him, your folks, about this. But no one cloud could be great for a workload for another cloud for another workload. And that's multi cloud because you have a couple clouds, right? And that's the train that we're seeing. You dude >> absolutely saw it at a T. Same thing here, a pure we do some on Prem and we do some hybrid. We also do some hosted where we have our SAS provider host are the applications well and that actually then starts to get you into some other challenges that we have a night that you start to say. So what happens with my data, and what does that look like? Where is it going? How is it secure all those things that are so important as a business to make sure your customer in your employee's data is, you know, corn centric to >> final question for going to the talk trash. I've gotta ask you, being a veteran in the business. What is it, crazier now, then it wass ten, fifteen years ago in terms of work operations. Is it faster? What's your take on it if you look back the old way into the new ways that you know more of the same but just different kind of product and technologies, which you're >> probably in the unique role because I think it's super fun, I think that Theobald litt e to be able to transform your business and have the flexibility. I'm certainly being here in in this roll and, you know, nine half year old company. There's lots of opportunity to be completely flexible, and I think that part is really fun. I think that the challenge for some larger you know, companies who've been around hundred plus year old companies as those companies you know, have a challenge with saying I've got such a large embedded base and trying to be, you know, interoperable around, what what exists and where they want to go. I think a lot of us that were, you know, in these companies that are, like, pure we have, Ah, you know, kind of. I think it is a gift to be able to say Hey, this is really something we should be able to do How do we go do it and have the support to actually do it? So it's Ah, I think it probably depends on the part of the industry that you're in. There's definitely some challenges, and I think privacy is definitely, you know, kind of a backdrop. But I think is you think about that. There's workable solutions for as all cos they're trying to go through. I think it's just a matter of making it. You know, that commitment to say you know you can can be flexible and you can make the progress you're looking for. >> It seems to be more of a builder culture as well as your operational calls. That's right. You can build and operate, build, operate kind of a new kind of flywheel. >> Yeah, I think that's the That's the exciting part for it is, I think we've we have transitioned or we're in that mode that time period where, instead of just being a pure enablement for the business, it's really turning into How do you become a strategic partner? How how do you have that seat at the table where you're helping to say, How do we help your business? It's not just about paying out these applications. Here's our availability hears. I mean those air, what I consider table stakes. You gotta be able to do those things. Now it's about how can we help you? Actually, you know, improve what? Your trying Teo, you know, in the business side of it. So that's the That's the part I think is unique and different is that focus on helping Teo and you're not just enabled, but be that strategic partner to help. He had changed business. >> That's awesome. Couple talk trash. I want to get your thoughts on one is accelerating Conference, which is pure We've been following. The company was founded. Scott Deaton. First interview, I think, was the way he found company Washington success. Now they have a big customer conference. We have the sixteenth in September sixteen September that week. Check it out your first conference, you guys, we're introducing some new things. What's the buzz? What are you planning on for the conference >> yet? So you know, it's interesting cause such as someone who's coming out of, you know, the industry side of it. The thing that's hard is as the CIA or was trying figure out what's going to be the biggest bank for my my time, cause I can't can't go to everything. So I'm super excited. Babel Teo to attend the event. I think the uniqueness is it's focused on the customers so existing customers, but also prospects customers who are considering pure thie. Other unique thing that's happening this year is there is a very specific track around the executive side so that having the sea level conversations, you know, with some of our key leaders in our business and innovative thinkers and so It's kind of running the spectrum of be able to say, If you're coming on and you should all come if you're coming, you're going to be able to have the conversations that you're expecting out of sea level. That might look a little different than maybe someone who's trying to do innovation and in your team and what they're looking for. So whether it's you know, demos or workshops and thinks that you get your hands, you know, hands dirty on, I think that that's the you know, the excitement of all of it is it's it's kind of a multifaceted and it's, ah, it's a great opportunity connects with your peers and with other companies, be able to say, What are you doing? How do we learn from you? We do a lot of those kinds of things, I think in general, but I think when you can get focused and have a peer group that's in, ah, you know smaller type of venue where and it's not thousands at a you know, major major conference that's existing somewhere in the in the U. S. Or u know worldwide, then you can actually have those meaningful conversations with your peers to say, Here's the things I'm working on. How ve you done it? What are you doing so well, I think we're gonna enable all those type of conversations to take place. So I'm excited to be a lot of fuss. >> The objective of the sea level trackers. It's just CEOs, is it? See? So says that CX ohs. What's the focus? What's the objective? >> It is all of that. One of its so interesting is my CEO is actually going to be quizzing me and talking to me about what is they actually expected of a CEO? Because I think that as a zany sea level position, your you know, we have expectations of you know what we need to deliver. But there's also how you contribute to the business. So it's kind of all all facets of it. It's everything from, you know, understanding what the expectations are to Some also thought leadership around where technology's going trends, those type of conversations and being would have some round table conversations. Maybe industry peers, eso all those kind of aspect. So but all all those areas they're covered >> should be great event. Looking forward to it. >> Yeah, a lot of fine >> Cuban be there. Of course we'LL check us out We'Ll be broadcasting live. Okay, Second talk track Women Tech You're a woman Takes years and years in the business in a big focus over the past years, Accused men have a lot of interviews with the great women in tech. >> Where do you >> see this state of the sticks? The needles doesn't seem to be moving on the percentages, but there seems to be great mo mentum in real pros. Lot of mentoring, a lot of networking. You seeing women, VC firms evolving very rapidly seeing cohorts together. What's your take on women in Tech, where we are, What challenges was opportunities? >> Yeah, you know, So we actually, in the Silicon Valley we actually have. There's several forms that go on for women CEOs and events that were to be able to have some of those conversations. And what do we do? And I think it starts with all of us, you know, individually and a in our organization, so organically is to figure out, you know, how do you make sure everyone feels that they belong, whether it's, you know, women or it's any other diverse group of employees. We have to figure out how to make people feel connected and part of the team, and I think it starts with that. And that's for kind of every discipline. And you know that you can think of in a business in text. Specifically, I think the challenge for women is you tend to not want to be identified. As, you know, a woman in Tech. It's like I want to be evaluated for my compensate what I bring to the table, my thought leadership, my perspective on and I don't think that's you mean to women. I think that's just unique to people that we all want to be valued for what we contribute. I definitely think that is a, um, a general kind of population and technology. I have seen where it used to be that I was the only female for many, many years and meetings, whether it was that fender briefings or it was in different company forms. Uh, I've had some unique opportunity. Eighteen t was hugely focused on women in tech women and engineering all those disciplines coming to pure, super exciting that we're we also so small of a company relatively sized eighteen t We have, you know, women heir Geez, employee resource groups. We have women in engineering. We have limited night. So we have kind of the ability to get that mentoring in that coaching the support within the company. And I think that's really valuable. But to your point, I think we have to still do Mohr of connecting outside of our company, figuring out whether that's through, you know, the different universities to make sure that we're getting the pipeline coming in and then retaining. I think that's the other challenges. The number's probably won't change much because we still see a significant amount of women leaving the workforce at a certain point. Er there were staging their career, and we need to figure out, you know what? What's that draw? Why is that happening? So >> what's the technology impact? Because as technology becomes consumer, I just seeing Data Analytics to arm or big a range of topics and confidence is not just computer science or probably or whatever Lim Maura broader perspective that helping at all do you see that evolving, that getting any lift, increasing the population and competency levels, >> you know it's a great question. I think we've had a pretty strong I'LL say, run at women. Being in computer science, we haven't seen enough women going into leadership positions. I think this just kind of industry, you know, generic kind of comment. I think it definitely helps. The more that you have a broader range of skills and capabilities. I think it's what is more fascinating is we need more women in those roles because as you think about the problems that all of our businesses air trying to solve their, it's not one dimension. So if we only have attack our problems with one dimension, one skill set, we just start going to be prepared to be, Oh, it's gonna take us longer And are all of us want to be able to quickly solve the issues that are >> of a personal question put you on the spot? What's the big learnings for you? Looking back now that you've seen that you can share as a woman attack and you put your twenty three year old hat on, what would you do differently? If anything, if you're living in today's world, >> you know eso it's interesting at has asked this question before actually came to pure as I talked to a number of companies in the Valley and it was like, What would you tell your younger self? And I said one of them is not to be afraid, and I think that's so so many of us. Whether you know, male or female. Sometimes you get into a routine and you don't necessarily break out of it or change. And so you tend to maybe take a safer path or a safer direction. And I think if I was to think back you No one is. Don't be afraid and the other, I think, is I probably would have. I was probably naive Tio not realize that I was sometimes the only female, and so I just kind of worked as I didn't think that was a different shade IRT it mattered. And when I think about it now, I probably should have done more to do some of the networking that we're doing today. That might have helped. You know, we talk a lot about the difference between mentoring and sponsoring, and it really gets into that. There needs to be enough, you know, sponsors both male and and female who can help to, you know, not just developed but have the conversations, you know, Make sure that people are included. Those kind of having a voice at the table. And I was very fortunate. I worked under some amazing leaders, both male and female, who who made sure that I had a voice. But I you know, I'm not a timid flower anyway, So I wouldn't have you know, I'm not going to sit there and to sit back and not do it and not to speak up. But I think that's something that not everyone is this comfortable was speaking up and being okay. That maybe I'm not right or so I think that I would tell my younger son Don't be afraid. And the second is to doom or Teo help get other others who maybe don't feel as if they belonged much. Teo, be able to have that. That same voice >> possible. Congratulations. You're awesome. And I'm excited for the event with you, >> you have to be a lot of fun. >> Okay, Next talk track. You were a customer of pure before you joined the company. Yes, you're t you were You know you have the keys to the kingdom. All the vendors pitching you You have big infrastructure, run tons and tons of work loads on DH. This is what, six, seven years ago here was in the growth phase. Now they're public company and much larger experience. But back then you took a risk on a technology. Tell us about that story because you made a big bet. Did it? Work actually worked out. You're here. I'm sure that he still has pure detail. The story? >> Yes. So first it starts with, You know, I had amazing team at a great team of folks who didn't want to accept the status quo, what was happening in the stores storage industry. And so as a CZ, we were hearing, you know, like you said, the pitches about what's due. What's different? Um, they were willing to stand up and say, Hey, you know what I think we need to look at this company, and, you know, it is hard when you are, you know, kind of that time I would say Pierre was somewhat of a unicorn in the sense that you try to have a somebody who's that small, non private, probably health company toe work with a big behemoth like tea. There's a lot of different things, whether it's contractual, you know, the legal, that decency is all that's having put aside the, you know, all of the technology. It's all of that That's really hard for companies to navigate. Pure had an amazing technology, and what happened is they came in and they said, Hey, this is what we can do. We can transform your business is not just about the economics will prove you that part, but we can actually help you to deliver faster for your application teams. We can help you with all these areas and and we could do it all within like two weeks. So the key was being able to stand up and say I'm going to do this and then prove it in this very small window because when you're in a large enterprise, you often you don't have unlimited resource is very constrained of. It's not a different that it started, but you're very limited. Resource is welcome to try to run big scale and so they were able to prove out everything they said, and then plus more. It was things like we started seeing efficiencies in the data center. We started to see that things like that where we thought we're going to have to expand and buy, you know, additional ports. We were able to not have to do it. So there was a lot of these, like side benefits that we weren't expecting. We all those Plus we asked for. So we did. We took a bet on Pure. They were a great, innovative team to work with. And, you know, he's had it, you know, their legacy is ah, very much innovation. And so it kind of was that match to say we need to re and companies who can help us to continue to innovate. >> We little skeptical at first, but we can do in two weeks. >> Yes. So it's almost like a bet. You go. All right, let's get you to do it. We'Ll see how it works in two weeks. So and that's s o they came in. It was all proved out. So we way actually, you know, move forward And you know, today a t and T is you know, hundreds of race, which is, you know, a very large footprint for any company to have with size. And it spans, you know, production application, Tier one applications to things that are specific use cases. So it kind of spans a large. >> Not a lot of war stories around. Critical failures, either. You said you had some successes with them before you came on camera. Yeah. Share that story is the storage. Is one those things where he was going to have something that might go down? The question is, how severe is the problem? What was some of the experiences you have? >> Yeah. You know, I can say that. You know, I left a team t last last summer. So up through that point, we had not had any several announces. So when you think of a large company, it's not unusual to have incidents outages. I mean, that that tends to happen just with the size of your footprint. Um, t was very successful, working with pure on, having essentially having a product that had big stability. And we didn't see those outages and not just on running it, but actually doing the non disruptive upgrades. So the ability to actually take the technology, do the next generation and not have any outages. That's pretty unusual for for any company tau experience. And so I looked at us from a scale highly unusual, but that's that was success. >> Great success. Okay, finally, you're here pure now, your CEO not as big as a T and T was still public company and they have a lot of employees. They're maturing as a company. You're running pure at your house. You can't unless you're doing a bake off internal assessment. How using pure. Now, how's it going? What's the share? Some of the architectural details without giving away any secrets. What's it like? And what you guys doing this innovative. >> So, you know, we are. We are much smaller organization, obviously. Then you know where I live just left. But it's really important for us to have that same innovation and capabilities we actually use pure we. But we use both flash array. We use flash blades of both of our you know, I'll say premiere products. We also use pure one, which is kind of the the telemetry visibility allows you to do what if analysis looked to see how you're doing for capacity perspective. So we actually use, um are you know, three of our primary products to actually run our daily our data warehouse, and then we are doing some of it just to be able to do some of our security. So we actually run a splunk in tableaux and using those type of tools, those capabilities, we run them on our environments and were able to do a lot of things that the feedback that we're getting is like, Oh, my gosh, we can't believe that you guys were able to do this. We have a very, very lean ight organization. So to do some of the things we're doing from a security analytics and, you know, threat, detections and all that, those are things that aren't very common for a lot of companies are we're all trying to be better on it and were able to use our own technology to kind of help substantiate what we're trying to solve for that's so super exciting. >> That's awesome. Final point on the CEO perspective. Great to have you and get the CEO perspective again. Bullets a customer and then working up your CEO is out there right now are challenged with transformation. Digital transmissions like buzz word that's been kicked around for years. But now you starting to see the robber hitting the road. Really? Development pressure, modernisation, run app, development. See, I see the pipe lining to multi cloud hybrid cloud. All this is now pretty much got some visibility into architectural decisions. What do you think is the bigger It's callous facing CEOs today in terms of, you know, thinking about the holistic, you know, five ten year horizon as they start to make investments and think about either aging out or contain arising preexisting workloads to cloud native APS and on premise giving me all your thoughts. >> Yeah. You know, I think that the kind of boils down to a couple aspects. One of them is, you know, module ization of your applications. That's why containers ations become such a big deal. Being able to do things like, you know, have your data separate from your application and not have everything so integrated at that level where you then are getting somewhat confined. You have issues with in I have to have this application running in this location. I also need to have the data has to be, you know, coexisting with it and so you run with all these constraints. So I think that for depending on the age of your organisation, that the first challenge is trying to figure out how do I start, Tio, you almost break apart my application of iron, my infrastructure. So I have more ability to have more modularity between what needs to happen and where it needs to happen. So I think to me, that's the That's one of the biggest aspects were, you know, super fortunate, because because we're a big sash shot. Most of our applications were dependent on our venders for the US Ask providers to have kind of worked through some of those issues, but that's that's one aspect. I think the second is the ability to navigate between, you know, on permanent prints. So the hybrids solution is really I don't see that going away. I think that all of us are struggling with the whole notion of whether it's the economics. It's the ability to like you, said move workload to the right location for the right optimization, the right tooley, et cetera. And so I think it's that flexibility. You can't get any of that if you don't have the first part done. And then when you start talking about your like your digital strategy, none of that works when you start wanting to get into, like, a A and m o until you have some of those things done and you put that data strategy in place. So you then have that ability have the threat across your whole, you know, ecosystem. And I think that's what our challenge, >> an automation, is key. But you gotta automate manual test. You have people to do it. Then you got a strange way to make that. So the skill gap stills always gonna be there. Right? Kathy, Thanks for Spend the time sharing your insight here on the cube conversation. Really appreciated. Absolutely. Thank you for >> having me >> here. Cube culture here. Pure storages headquarters in Mountain View, California. John Korea. Thanks for watching