>>We're back with Jerome West, product management security lead at for HCI at Dell Technologies Hyper-converged infrastructure. Jerome, welcome. >>Thank you, David. >>Hey, Jerome, In this series, A blueprint for trusted infrastructure, we've been digging into the different parts of the infrastructure stack, including storage, servers and networking, and now we want to cover hyperconverged infrastructure. So my first question is, what's unique about HCI that presents specific security challenges? What do we need to know? >>So what's unique about Hyperconverge infrastructure is the breadth of the security challenge. We can't simply focus on a single type of IT system, so like a server or a storage system or a virtualization piece of software. I mean, HCI is all of those things. So luckily we have excellent partners like VMware, Microsoft, and internal partners like the Dell Power Edge team, the Dell storage team, the Dell networking team, and on and on. These partnerships, in these collaborations are what make us successful from a security standpoint. So let me give you an example to illustrate. In the recent past, we're seeing growing scope and sophistication in supply chain attacks. This mean an attacker is going to attack your software supply chain upstream so that hopefully a piece of code, malicious code that wasn't identified early in the software supply chain is distributed like a large player, like a VMware or Microsoft or a Dell. So to confront this kind of sophisticated hard to defeat problem, we need short term solutions and we need long term solutions as well. >>So for the short term solution, the obvious thing to do is to patch the vulnerability. The complexity is for our HCI portfolio. We build our software on VMware, so we would have to consume a patch that VMware would produce and provide it to our customers in a timely manner. Luckily, VX Rail's engineering team has co engineered a release process with VMware that significantly shortens our development life cycle so that VMware will produce a patch and within 14 days we will integrate our own code. With the VMware release, we will have tested and validated the update and we will give an update to our customers within 14 days of that VMware release. That as a result of this kind of rapid development process, Vxl had over 40 releases of software updates last year for a longer term solution. We're partnering with VMware and others to develop a software bill of materials. We work with VMware to consume their software manifest, including their upstream vendors and their open source providers to have a comprehensive list of software components. Then we aren't caught off guard by an unforeseen vulnerability and we're more able to easily detect where the software problem lies so that we can quickly address it. So these are the kind of relationships and solutions that we can co engineer with effective collaborations with our, with our partners. >>Great, Thank you for that. That description. So if I had to define what cybersecurity resilience means to HCI or converged infrastructure, and to me my takeaway was you gotta have a short term instant patch solution and then you gotta do an integration in a very short time, you know, two weeks to then have that integration done. And then longer term you have to have a software bill of materials so that you can ensure the providence of all the components help us. Is that a right way to think about cybersecurity resilience? Do you have, you know, a additives to that definition? >>I do. I really think that site cybersecurity and resilience for hci, because like I said, it has sort of unprecedented breadth across our portfolio. It's not a single thing, it's a bit of everything. So really the strength or the secret sauce is to combine all the solutions that our partner develops while integrating them with our own layer. So let me, let me give you an example. So hci, it's a, basically taking a software abstraction of hardware functionality and implementing it into something called the virtualized layer. It's basically the virtual virtualizing hardware functionality, like say a storage controller, you could implement it in a hardware, but for hci, for example, in our VX rail portfolio, we, or our vxl product, we integrate it into a product called vsan, which is provided by our partner VMware. So that portfolio strength is still, you know, through our, through our partnerships. >>So what we do, we integrate these, these security functionality and features in into our product. So our partnership grows to our ecosystem through products like VMware, products like nsx, Verizon, Carbon Black and Bsphere. All of them integrate seamlessly with VMware. And we also leverage VMware's software, par software partnerships on top of that. So for example, VX supports multifactor authentication through bsphere integration with something called Active Directory Federation services for adfs. So there is a lot of providers that support adfs, including Microsoft Azure. So now we can support a wide array of identity providers such as Off Zero or I mentioned Azure or Active Directory through that partnership. So we can leverage all of our partners partnerships as well. So there's sort of a second layer. So being able to secure all of that, that provides a lot of options and flexibility for our customers. So basically to summarize my my answer, we consume all of the security advantages of our partners, but we also expand on that to make a product that is comprehensively secured at multiple layers from the hardware layer that's provided by Dell through Power Edge to the hyper-converged software that we build ourselves to the virtualization layer that we get through our partnerships with Microsoft and VMware. >>Great. I mean that's super helpful. You've mentioned nsx, Horizon, Carbon Black, all the, you know, the VMware component OTH zero, which the developers are gonna love. You got Azure identity, so it's really an ecosystem. So you may have actually answered my next question, but I'm gonna ask it anyway cuz you've got this software defined environment and you're managing servers and networking and storage with this software led approach, how do you ensure that the entire system is secure end to end? >>That's a really great question. So the, the answer is we do testing and validation as part of the engineering process. It's not just bolted on at the end. So when we do, for example, the xra is the market's only co engineered solution with VMware, other vendors sell VMware as a hyperconverged solution, but we actually include security as part of the co-engineering process with VMware. So it's considered when VMware builds their code and their process dovetails with ours because we have a secure development life cycle, which other products might talk about in their discussions with you that we integrate into our engineering life cycle. So because we follow the same framework, all of the, all of the codes should interoperate from a security standpoint. And so when we do our final validation testing when we do a software release, we're already halfway there in ensuring that all these features will give the customers what we promised. >>That's great. All right, let's, let's close pitch me, what would you say is the strong suit summarize the, the strengths of the Dell hyperconverged infrastructure and converged infrastructure portfolio specifically from a security perspective? Jerome? >>So I talked about how hyper hyper-converged infrastructure simplifies security management because basically you're gonna take all of these features that are abstracted in in hardware, they're now abstracted in the virtualization layer. Now you can manage them from a single point of view, whether it would be, say, you know, in for VX rail would be b be center, for example. So by abstracting all this, you make it very easy to manage security and highly flexible because now you don't have limitations around a single vendor. You have a multiple array of choices and partnerships to select. So I would say that is the, the key to making it to hci. Now, what makes Dell the market leader in HCI is not only do we have that functionality, but we also make it exceptionally useful to you because it's co engineered, it's not bolted on. So I gave the example of, I gave the example of how we, we modify our software release process with VMware to make it very responsive. >>A couple of other features that we have specific just to HCI are digitally signed LCM updates. This is an example of a feature that we have that's only exclusive to Dell that's not done through a partnership. So we digitally sign our software updates so you, the user can be sure that the, the update that they're installing into their system is an authentic and unmodified product. So we give it a Dell signature that's invalidated prior to installation. So not only do we consume the features that others develop in a seamless and fully validated way, but we also bolt on our own specific HCI security features that work with all the other partnerships and give the user an exceptional security experience. So for, for example, the benefit to the customer is you don't have to create a complicated security framework that's hard for your users to use and it's hard for your system administrators to manage. It all comes in a package. So it, it can be all managed through vCenter, for example, or, and then the specific hyper, hyper-converged functions can be managed through VxRail manager or through STDC manager. So there's very few pains of glass that the, the administrator or user ever has to worry about. It's all self contained and manageable. >>That makes a lot of sense. So you got your own infrastructure, you're applying your best practices to that, like the digital signatures, you've got your ecosystem, you're doing co-engineering with the ecosystems, delivering security in a package, minimizing the complexity at the infrastructure level. The reason Jerome, this is so important is because SecOps teams, you know, they gotta deal with cloud security, they gotta deal with multiple clouds. Now they have their shared responsibility model going across multiple, They got all this other stuff that they have to worry, they gotta secure containers and the run time and, and, and, and, and the platform and so forth. So they're being asked to do other things. If they have to worry about all the things that you just mentioned, they'll never get, you know, the, the securities is gonna get worse. So what my takeaway is, you're removing that infrastructure piece and saying, Okay guys, you now can focus on those other things that is not necessarily Dell's, you know, domain, but you, you know, you can work with other partners to, and your own teams to really nail that. Is that a fair summary? >>I think that is a fair summary because absolutely the worst thing you can do from a security perspective is provide a feature that's so unusable that the administrator disables it or other key security features. So when I work with my partners to define, to define and develop a new security feature, the thing I keep foremost in mind is, will this be something our users want to use in our administrators want to administer? Because if it's not, if it's something that's too difficult or onerous or complex, then I try to find ways to make it more user friendly and practical. And this is a challenge sometimes because we are, our products operate in highly regulated environments and sometimes they have to have certain rules and certain configurations that aren't the most user friendly or management friendly. So I, I put a lot of effort into thinking about how can we make this feature useful while still complying with all the regulations that we have to comply with. And by the way, we're very successful in a highly regulated space. We sell a lot of VxRail, for example, into the Department of Defense and banks and, and other highly regulated environments, and we're very successful >>There. Excellent. Okay, Jerome, thanks. We're gonna leave it there for now. I'd love to have you back to talk about the progress that you're making down the road. Things always, you know, advance in the tech industry and so would appreciate that. >>I would look forward to it. Thank you very much, Dave. >>You're really welcome. In a moment I'll be back to summarize the program and offer some resources that can help you on your journey to secure your enterprise infrastructure. I wanna thank our guests for their contributions and helping us understand how investments by a company like Dell can both reduce the need for dev sec up teams to worry about some of the more fundamental security issues around infrastructure and have greater confidence in the quality providence and data protection designed in to core infrastructure like servers, storage, networking, and hyper-converged systems. You know, at the end of the day, whether your workloads are in the cloud, OnPrem or at the edge, you are responsible for your own security. But vendor r and d and vendor process must play an important role in easing the burden faced by security devs and operation teams. And on behalf of the cube production content and social teams as well as Dell Technologies, we want to thank you for watching a blueprint for trusted infrastructure. Remember part one of this series as well as all the videos associated with this program, and of course, today's program are available on demand@thecube.net with additional coverage@siliconangle.com. And you can go to dell.com/security solutions dell.com/security solutions to learn more about Dell's approach to securing infrastructure. And there's tons of additional resources that can help you on your journey. This is Dave Valante for the Cube, your leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage. We'll see you next time.

(upbeat music) >> We're back with Jerome West, the Product Management Security Lead for HCI at Dell Technologies Hyper-Converged Infrastructure. Jerome, welcome. >> Thank you, Dave. >> Hey, Jerome, in this series "A Blueprint for Trusted Infrastructure," we've been digging into the different parts of the infrastructure stack, including storage servers and networking, and now we want to cover hyper-converged infrastructure. So my first question is what's unique about HCI that presents specific security challenges? What do we need to know? >> So what's unique about hyper-converged infrastructure is the breadth of the security challenge. We can't simply focus on a single type of IT system, so like a server or a storage system or a virtualization piece of software. I mean, HCI is all of those things. So luckily we have excellent partners like VMware, Microsoft and internal partners, like the Dell Power Edge Team, the Dell Storage Team, the Dell Networking Team, and on and on. These partnerships and these collaborations are what make us successful from a security standpoint. So let me give you an example to illustrate. In the recent past, we're seeing growing scope and sophistication in supply chain attacks. This means an attacker is going to attack your software supply chain upstream, so that hopefully a piece of code, malicious code that wasn't identified early in the software supply chain is distributed like a large player, like a VMware or a Microsoft or a Dell. So to confront this kind of sophisticated hard to defeat problem, we need short-term solutions and we need long-term solutions as well. So for the short-term solution, the obvious thing to do is to patch the vulnerability. The complexity is for our HCI portfolio, we build our software on VMware. So we would have to consume a patch that VMware would produce and provide it to our customers in a timely manner. Luckily, VxRail's engineering team has co engineered a release process with VMware that significantly shortens our development life cycle, so that VMware will produce a patch, and within 14 days we will integrate our own code with the VMware release. We will have tested and validated the update, and we will give an update to our customers within 14 days of that VMware release. That as a result of this kind of rapid development process, VxRail had over 40 releases of software updates last year. For a longer term solution, we're partnering with VMware and others to develop a software bill of materials. We work with VMware to consume their software manifest including their upstream vendors and their open source providers to have a comprehensive list of software components. Then we aren't caught off guard by an unforeseen vulnerability, and we're more able to easily detect where the software problem lies so that we can quickly address it. So these are the kind of relationships and solutions that we can co-engineer with effective collaborations with our partners. >> Great, thank you for that description. So if I had to define what cybersecurity resilience means to HCI or converged infrastructure, to me, my takeaway was you got to have a short-term instant patch solution and then you got to do an integration in a very short time, you know, two weeks to then have that integration done. And then longer-term, you have to have a software bill of materials so that you can ensure the provenance of all the components. Help us, is that a right way to think about cybersecurity resilience? Do you have, you know, additives to that definition? >> I do. I really think that cybersecurity and resilience for HCI, because like I said it has sort of unprecedented breadth across our portfolio. It's not a single thing. It's a bit of everything. So really the strength or the secret sauce is to combine all the solutions that our partner develops while integrating them with our own layer. So let me give you an example. So HCI, it's a basically taking a software abstraction of hardware functionality and implementing it into something called the virtualized layer. It's basically the virtualizing hardware functionality, like say a storage controller. You could implement it in the hardware, but for HCI, for example, in our VxRail portfolio, our VxRail product, we integrated it into a product called vSan which is provided by our partner VMware. So that portfolio strength is still, you know, through our partnerships. So what we do, we integrate these security functionality and features into our product. So our partnership grows through our ecosystem through products like VMware products, like NSX, Horizon, Carbon Black and vSphere. All of them integrate seamlessly with VMware. And we also leverage VMware's software partnerships on top of that. So for example, VxRail supports multifactor authentication through vSphere's integration with something called Active Directory Federation Services or ADFS. So there is a lot of providers that support ADFS, including Microsoft Azure. So now we can support a wide array of identity providers such as Auth0, or I mentioned Azure or Active Directory through that partnership. So we can leverage all of our partners' partnerships as well. So there's sort of a second layer. So being able to secure all of that, that provides a lot of options and flexibility for our customers. So basically to summarize my answer, we consume all of the security advantages of our partners, but we also expand on them to make a product that is comprehensively secured at multiple layers from the hardware layer that's provided by Dell through Power Edge to the hyper-converged software that we build ourselves to the virtualization layer that we get through our partnerships with Microsoft and VMware. >> Great, I mean, that's super helpful. You've mentioned NSX, Horizon, Carbon Black, all the you know, the VMware component, Auth0, which the developers are going to love. You got Azure Identity. So it's really an ecosystem. So you may have actually answered my next question, but I'm going to ask it anyway cause you've got this software-defined environment, and you're managing servers and networking and storage with this software-led approach. How do you ensure that the entire system is secure end to end? >> That's a really great question. So the answer is we do testing and validation as part of the engineering process. It's not just bolted on at the end. So when we do, for example VxRail is the market's only co-engineered solution with VMware. Other vendors sell VMware as a hyper-converged solution, but we actually include security as part of the co-engineering process with VMware. So it's considered when VMware builds their code, and their process dovetails with ours because we have a secure development lifecycle which other products might talk about in their discussions with you, that we integrate into our engineering lifecycle. So because we follow the same framework, all of the code should inter-operate from a security standpoint. And so when we do our final validation testing, when we do a software release, we're already halfway there in ensuring that all these features will give the customers what we promised. >> That's great. All right, let's close. Pitch me. What would you say is the strong suit, summarize the the strengths of the Dell hyper-converged infrastructure and converged infrastructure portfolio, specifically from a security perspective, Jerome? >> So I talked about how hyper-converged infrastructure simplifies security management because basically you're going to take all of these features that are abstracted in hardware. They're not abstracted in the virtualization layer. Now you can manage them from a single point of view, whether it would be say, you know, for VxRail it would be vCenter, for example. So by abstracting all this, you make it very easy to manage security and highly flexible because now you don't have limitations around a single vendor. You have a multiple array of choices and partnerships to select. So I would say that is the key to making, to HCI. Now what makes Dell the market leader in HCI is not only do we have that functionality, but we also make it exceptionally useful to you because it's co-engineered. It's not bolted on. So I gave the example of SBOM. I gave the example of how we modify our software release process with VMware to make it very responsive. A couple of other features that we have specific just to HCI are digitally signed LCM updates. This is an example of a feature that we have that's only exclusive to Dell. It's not done through a partnership. So we digitally sign our software updates. So the user can be sure that the update that they're installing into their system is an authentic and unmodified product. So we give it a Dell signature that's invalidated prior to installation. So not only do we consume the features that others develop in a seamless and fully validated way, but we also bolt on our own specific HCI security features that work with all the other partnerships and give the user an exceptional security experience. So for example, the benefit to the customer is you don't have to create a complicated security framework. That's hard for your users to use, and it's hard for your system administrators to manage. It all comes in a package, so it can be all managed through vCenter, for example. And then the specific hyper-converged functions can be managed through VxRail manager or through STDC manager. So there's very few panes of glass that the administrator or user ever has to worry about. It's all self-contained and manageable. >> That makes a lot of sense. So you've got your own infrastructure. You're applying your best practices to that like the digital signatures. You've got your ecosystem. You're doing co-engineering with the ecosystems, delivering security in a package, minimizing the complexity at the infrastructure level. The reason, Jerome, this is so important is because SecOps teams, you know, they got to deal with Cloud security. They got to deal with multiple Clouds. Now they have their shared responsibility model going across multiple. They got all this other stuff that they have to worry. They got to secure the containers and the run time and the platform and so forth. So they're being asked to do other things. If they have to worry about all the things that you just mentioned, they'll never get, you know, the security is just going to get worse. So my takeaway is you're removing that infrastructure piece and saying, okay, guys, you now can focus on those other things that is not necessarily Dell's, you know, domain, but you, you know, you can work with other partners and your own teams to really nail that. Is that a fair summary? >> I think that is a fair summary because absolutely the worst thing you can do from a security perspective is provide a feature that's so unusable that the administrator disables it or other key security features. So when I work with my partners to define and develop a new security feature, the thing I keep foremost in mind is will this be something our users want to use and our administrators want to administer? Because if it's not, if it's something that's too difficult or onerous or complex, then I try to find ways to make it more user-friendly and practical. And this is a challenge sometimes because our products operate in highly regulated environments, and sometimes they have to have certain rules and certain configurations that aren't the most user friendly or management friendly. So I put a lot of effort into thinking about how can we make this feature useful while still complying with all the regulations that we have to comply with. And by the way, we're very successful in a highly regulated space. We sell a lot of VxRail, for example, into the Department of Defense and banks and other highly regulated environments. And we're very successful there. >> Excellent, okay, Jerome, thanks. We're going to leave it there for now. I'd love to have you back to talk about the progress that you're making down the road. Things always, you know, advance in the tech industry, and so would appreciate that >> I would look forward to it. Thank you very much, Dave. >> You're really welcome. In a moment, I'll be back to summarize the program and offer some resources that can help you on your journey to secure your enterprise infrastructure. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome to the BizOps Manifesto Power panel talking about, "Embracing Agility Across the Business." I'm Lisa Martin, there are three guests here with me today, to break down this topic. Pierre Viljoen, CTO at Global Head of Enterprise Technology and Governance at HTL Enterprise Studio. Hey Pierre, welcome. >> Thank you >> Lisa: Dave West is also here, the CEO of Scrum.org. Hey Dave, good to have you with us. >> Hi Lisa, hi everybody. >> Lisa: And Serge Lucio is here as well, the general manager of Broadcom's Enterprise Software Division. Hey Serge, good to have you on the program. >> Thank you, good to be here. >> So we're going to be talking about the people and the process and technology requirements that businesses need to adopt to be able to embrace agility across the business. We're going to also be talking a lot about this inaugural BizOps industry research survey, on the state of digital business. A lot of very interesting findings that we're going to go through in the next 20 minutes or so. So the first question guys is, the BizOps survey found that over 519 individuals over five countries business and technology executives. This survey found, most organizations still expect this year to be as challenging as last year. I want you to kind of walk us through why that is, and how is that going to impact digital transformation initiatives? Pierre, we'll start with you, then Dave, then Serge. >> Sure, thank you Lisa. So, I think these days, disruption is no longer an exception. It's kind of become the norm or the rule, in terms of how we operate. And as executives in companies have learned over the last year, with everything that's happened is that, you can only modernize to a point, and then you need to do a little bit more. And what really is needed is for us to understand, going forward, how we're actually going to remodel our business by harnessing the resources that we have in a much more agile way, in a more fluent way, from an organizational perspective. And I think our current midterm goal, probably, is that we're capable of remodeling how we can remove roadblocks. These kinds of roadblocks in the future, and get us in a better position where we are. I don't expect things to change dramatically over the next year. More in line with us making sure that we're more future proof in the way in which we're working. >> We still have remote workers, global uncertainty, the vaccine. Dave, what are your thoughts on the impact of this year on digital transformation initiatives? >> Yeah, it's funny. When I think of, sort of uncertainty and chaos, I think that COVID really started it rolling down a hill, but unfortunately it's literally like rolling down a hill, these chaos and complexity. It's getting faster and faster and harder and harder. We're talking about the new norm, right? What is the new normal? We just don't know. And I think the reality is that most organizations were surprised by the impact of COVID-19 and because of that, they responded very quickly. Many of them, people were working at home, they're looking at their supply chain, looking at localization, all sorts of really important things happen, but very quickly, not very strategically. I think the next few years we're going to see, hopefully, some of that realizing into strategy and actually starting to fundamentally change how the business is looking at the world. We've sort of entered the digital age, Lisa, this next age of innovation, we have moved out of mass production and the age of oil, into something very, very different. And I think those organizations, every organization out there is going to have to get a handle on that and COVID was the wake up, right? And I think the next five years are going to be very interesting. >> I agree with you that that accelerant was, I didn't think of it before as a big ball rolling downhill. And now I don't think I'm going to be able to get that out of my head. But Serge, talk to us about your thoughts, the impacts to digital transformation initiatives. >> Yeah, I think back to what Dave was describing. The big challenge is the uncertainty. Many organizations are faced with, currently, a lot of unknowns about, if and when things will go back to, quote unquote, some kind of normality. And with that kind of uncertainty, there's a lot of challenges to the planning from an investment point of view. So, Dave was talking about a short-term versus long-term Like, a lot of these organizations are basically focused on just getting by over the next 12 months and trying to figure out what needs to happen over the next 12 months. At the same time, there's a lot of challenges with respect to readiness and uncertainty. And so, in that context, you got kind of this tension between, "How much do I invest short term "on basically tactical initiatives, "How do I care about teams? "How do I enable these teams "to deliver in weeks as opposed to months? "And then at the same time, "how do I continue to invest "to fundamentally change my operating model?" And that tension is very real. Within many of the organizations we serve. >> One of the things that the survey found was that most of the respondents were very willing to embrace being more agile in order to be able to better respond to rapidly changing market conditions. But I want to get your opinion on what that actually really means, that willingness to embrace being agile. What does it really mean? And what do organize organizations have to do differently? Pierre, I'll start with you. >> Sure, I think we had a discussion a while back and Dave actually got into something interesting where he said, without quoting a famous sneaker brand, just go out and do it. I think that's probably the most important part of this. Most organizations are struggling to figure out, "How should we embrace Agile? "Should we jump in at full scale now? "Should we be looking Scrum? "Should we be doing Scrum-Falls? "Should we be falling over our own feet?" Nobody knows exactly, what might be the right sector? I think the most important part is to pick up a pair of solid principles that you're going to embrace, start executing on them, start learning as you go, and basically improve as you move forward. Over the last year, we've embraced digital product management quite a lot on our side. And it's had tremendous benefits without us, per se, aiming for those benefits at the end of the day. And these are things that you learn as you go. And if you're going to wait around, analysis paralysis is going to be the killer of Agile at the end of day >> "Just do it," I like that. Good advice. Dave, what are your thoughts? >> Yeah, so, I think that what's really interesting is, Agile has been around for 20 years. The manifesto was signed 20 years ago. Scrum came into the world 25 years ago. All of these sort of Agile approaches, but they were predominantly focused on technology. And I think that one thing that I've noticed, over and over again, is that the realization by C-level executives, level sevens, or whatever they're called, they've realized that it's not about technology. (chuckles) It's great, the technologies. I guess the technology's always worked in this complex world because customers never knew what they wanted. We didn't know how are we going to do it. We'd never worked together before. We didn't know how much it was going to cost. So, because of that (chuckles) we had to work in an agile way in technology. But ultimately, I think, one of the big differences going forward, is going to be that, there I say that intersection of business and technology, that BizOps kind of model that we talked about in the manifesto, and what the survey was really trying to tease out. I think that's really, really going to be interesting. And I don't know what that actually means, in terms of the execution. I hope it means that we're going to see teams better aligned to business outcomes. I hope it means that we're going to actually allow those teams that are actually know what they're approaching to make decisions. I hope it means that planning is going to be more directional rather than task level. I hope it means that we're going to start measuring the success in terms of business outcomes, not in terms of the work that we do. I hope it means all of these things. But we will wait and see, because experience would indicate that after a big disaster, lots of people tend to go back to exactly how they worked before, with that sort of emus kind of mentality or ostrich or whatever things sticks its head in the ground. I don't know. >> Sometimes we just want to go back to when things were safe and normal. But in terms of kind of following on, Dave, what you said, 94%, in this survey, 94% of respondents said we should adopt BizOps to increase competitiveness. So, that willingness is there in a vast majority of the respondents. So, I'd like to get your thoughts on what that willingness actually means and what they need to do differently. >> Yes. The problem is that, I think everybody understand that you have to be agile, right? You need to be able to respond quickly to your customer needs. You need to put the customer at the center of everything you do, right? So, conceptually, everybody understands that. The problem is really the operating model that many of these large organizations are dealing with to this day, right? So, you have these sort of Berkeley, kind of organized organization, with functional roles, specialized roles. And when you think about kind of generally, well, one of the big challenges is that you need to start to think horizontally, right? You need to start to start to think about what kind of value streams and what part of the cross functional teams that need to be organized and integrated to deliver on specific business outcomes. You need to start shifting from the traditional contract-based model that(indistinct) to a model which is much more based on trust, right? And we need to move away from vanity measurements and KPIs that many of the organizations typically lead by, to really focus on one thing and one thing only, which is that business value has been delivered. So, fundamentally, I think it requires a bit of a redesign of the operating model in these organizations. And one where, especially when you have a risk adversed kind of organizations, you need to start to be more accepting of risk, fundamentally. >> More accepting of risk. You brought something up there starts that I want to tackle in the next question with respect to culture. But one of the things that the survey uncovered was an interesting kind of seeming contradiction. The majority of respondents said, "We agreed, digital transformation "is about business outcomes "more than it is about technology." But 62% said, "We're still adopting technology for technology's sake." What does that actually mean? And what's the kind of cultural impact there for organizations to really get that more aligned on the digital transformation and the technology and the business outcomes? Pierre, we'll start with you. >> Sure. So, I think there were a number of reports this year talking about what's happened, what's not happened, and the majority of them focused on the fact that, as tech leaders, for years we've been praying to the gods to get budget approved to do all kinds of modernization activities to our infrastructure, our IT, tools, et cetera. And, lo and behold, the ball comes rolling down the hill, smashes a few things and we basically get some blank checks. So, we run around and we buy a whole bunch of stuff to modernize and to embrace this ability to do things differently. And in that whole process, what we basically did was buy more tools and buy more technology. And in that whole process, we didn't really embrace what it is that we're trying to achieve. So, basically aligning the technology to the actual business requirements getting closer to the customer, being able to understand where our market's moving, how we're capable of reducing the journey, if I can put it that way, and make sure that we're more aligned to where we need to be. So, although a lot of CIOs and CTOs got away with doing a lot of great stuff over the last year and users like me are like, "Ooh! I don't have to worry "about stupid VPNs and things anymore." That all went away. But in the same instance, I didn't really get anything that changed the organizational dynamic, which is a challenge. We still have the fundamental problems we have because the business leaders are not yet embracing the deep monitor of the processes that are supported by the technology. And then driving that in such a way that we can gain more business value which is important. To Serge's previous point, we're doing all these great things but we're not focusing on the incremental value that we're supposed to be getting. >> Dave, did it surprise you that there was this seemingly contradictory response? Yes, it's more about business outcomes and technology, but we're still adopting technology for technology's sake. What are your thoughts on that? And how can organizations actually start to move the needle on that? >> E-comm by cultural change, right? But you do know that your board and your leadership want you to do something, and the easiest thing you can do is buy something. I'm a sort of now an American, so, that's kind of my mantra in life, right? "When in doubt go shopping." Which is fantastic, just for the record. (Lisa laughs) But so, you've got to be seen to be doing something, whether it's replacing a VPN, which is always a fun thing to do, or whether it's getting on Slack. Everyone's going to be on Slack. that's going to help. But actually the core is that, exactly what Serge and Pierre have been saying all along, it's that, "Okay. So what is our business all about? "What are our customers? "what did they actually need? "What do our employees need? "How do we build a better value stream "from customer to the organization? "How do we align our teams to that? "How do we incentivize correctly "both the employees that are working "and our partners that are providing things "in this supply chain. How do we do all of those things?" Ultimately though, that means that we have to take a step back which is a very frustrating thing at the moment. And actually look at what is our business all about? What is the mission of it? Who are the customers? Take a moment to find what those are. And then, soon as we have that, and we don't have to do it. As Pierre said, we don't have to do it completely. We can do it incrementally. Organizations are very inward looking. That is the industrial mindset. That is that paradigm. It's looking, as Serge talked about, silos, "optimizing my department," "optimizing my budget, optimizing my kingdom." And what we're talking about is something that cross cuts all of that. So, the decision making is going to change around where the investments go and that's going to be really, really challenging. So, I'm not surprised, I'm not at all surprised that everybody says we should be doing this. And it's like classic. Everybody says we need to be fitter, but we're still all not fit. (Serge laughs) It's sort of, that's just the reality of the world that we live in, right? But we have to start making a stand. And the place we begin is customers. That's the place. And as soon as we start doing that, then everything else just becomes quite easy, actually. >> I like that. Focus on customers and it becomes easy. Serve, I'm kidding. What are your thoughts on this? >> Yeah, I think Dave summarized it well. It's very easy to just buy a tool or buy something, right? Fundamentally changing kind of an operating model is very difficult, but you need to fundamentally rethink for instance, all the responding initiatives. So, something as mundane as, You know, as a leader in my organization I have a budget, right? What's my incentive of collaborating with my peers in terms of delivering credible analysis form. And so, that to me kind of a fundamental shift that we need to operate, and that's probably one of the reasons why many of our largest organizations that we're serving are starting to introduce some new roles like a Chief Digital Officer, as kind of a way to kind of bring kind of a slightly different organization design. The challenge, though, is that, well, all of these teams are still kind of integrated with this fabric of these large systems which exist. So when we look at these value streams, in fact they're not independent from one another. You have a bunch of interdependencies. You are looking at kind of networks of these value streams. But the fundamental shift that we need to see is what we want these organizations to think about, ultimately with the part of the products or services that need to be focused on, all of these become kind of the primary things that we measure from point of view, and how do we align teams and projects and funding along these kinds of outcomes? >> So being customer focused, also being more broadly focused you mentioned the Chief Digital Officer role, which has an interesting role. It's supposed to look more, holistically, internally and externally. And we know that these organizations know we need to be better at this. like Dave's joke about we know we need to be more fit. But what's it going to take to actually create that collaboration, so that IT and business leaders are really working in lockstep and doing so in a timely fashion, so, that they're able to stay competitive. I do want to know from each of you, are you seeing examples of this already in progress? Pierre, let's start with you. >> I can only give you another example and say, one of the interesting things that we did was we try to embrace the delivery of services at HR in kind of a different frame this year, and kind of productize the services that we deliver. Now, if you're most people, you're trying to think about, "How do I set up things like communities "of practice and collaboration between people so "that they can work together on developing new services "new features, new products, et cetera." And we set out with creating this agile way of working. What we didn't anticipate, which was a very nice side effect, is that, because of COVID, because of the catalyst that it provided us, the remote working, people sense of ownership is inherently there. Meaning that self-organization of teams started happening. Nobody needed to crack a whip to get a bunch of guys to talk together with one another to figure out how to get stuff done. It's not like you could walk over to the water cooler and have a chat to Bob. Bob is a thousand miles away, or Bobby's sitting in another State. So, all of a sudden, all dynamic changed. And I have to say, people are a lot more resilient than what they're being given credit for. And if, as organizations, we embrace the culture in such a way and harness it in a positive way, we can actually get this movement to happen. And we actually can make the sum of the parts to be more than the whole. And this year we've seen that happen. And by no means, are we done 'cause we still have a lot of work to do, like Serge said, we have budgets, and budgets give you finite amount of movement left or right. Then you have to do what's best and possible within the frame that you're given. But I think embracing the cultural change and helping people to really excel at that and empowering them makes a huge difference in the way that you can get stuff done. >> Absolutely. Dave, what are your thoughts on this? >> I'm going to say something a little bit controversial, I think. I'm not a big fan of Chief Digital Officers. It just seems like we've got a problem. And some would argue that, "Well, if you've got a problem with somebody "you should get a coach" and all this stuff "and you get it sorted." And that's probably a good thing. But most digital officers, they're going to build a long-term career and create yet another stove pipe and that stove pipe's responsible for bringing all the other stove pipes together. It sounds a bit odd. If a digital officer is really there as a short term enabler, 'cause you asked IT and business leaders, trying to get them to work together better. The best business leaders (bell dings) know about IT, right? The best business leaders are IT sanctuary. Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos are great business leaders, but they know about technology, right? That's what brings them together. Technology is an asset and they may not be the most biggest expert in it, but they care deeply about learning about that stuff. So, I think the next few years we're going to see a lot of C-level and leaders in organizations become a lot more tech savvy, and maybe hire coaches to help them navigate. And the Chief Digital Officer will become more of a coach rather than a person that rolls out Slack or something, you know? (Pierre laughs) So, I think that is going to be the next big jump, really, when we realize that you don't get an additional thing. It's just part of what you do. >> Serge, agree, disagree? >> I agree. The reality is that it is happening, right? Don't get me wrong. We see that every day that so many States are highly integrated, organizations and teams are measuring business value, business outcomes. The problem is that it's oftentimes a very small subset of what these organizations are doing. And so, it's almost like the CEO is coming as kind of these new kind of, as Dave described. And it's got this new style organization which is really there to kind of scale what has been working with these organizations, but we're kind of creating this kind of almost shadow organization, as opposed to fundamentally rethinking and redesigning the organization and redesigning kind of the operating model. And so, we're kind of layering new stuff as opposed to fundamentally transforming. So, as long as it is just kind of just a step towards kind of a true transformation, I think that's fine. The challenge is to, again, create kind of a new set of silos, which are now called value streams, as opposed to young functional silos that we have today. >> So a lot of opportunities identified in this survey but there are still a lot of challenges there. So, I'd love to get you guys and our final question here in this panel to help us understand, from the BizOps coalition's perspective, how are you helping organizations to navigate these challenges, so, they can become successful, transform and actually become agile to respond to rapidly changing market conditions? Pierre, kick us off. >> Sure, from a coalition perspective, we're just trying to make sure that there's a set of sensible principles. That people can look at, can adopt that I think Dave mentioned it in another discussion, that give you that clarity of thought and mind in terms of what should you be thinking? How should you be thinking about it? What are the various aspects you need to consider? And then from that perspective, how do you implement these things in a sensible way for your organization? By no means is this this like, "Here are the 10 steps, you do them, and you're done." You'll be rich beyond your wildest dreams. It's not how it work. You're still going to have to work at it. You're still going to have to figure some stuff out. You're going to have to deep in yourself in your organizational policies, procedures, understand how the organization is actually working. You can't strap a V8 to Mini Cooper and expect to break the land speed record, without the wheels falling off, or something going wrong. So, you really need to harness that in a more sensible manner to move forward. And I think the coalition is on the right path to help organizations realize, "what is the sensible way to go?" "What are principles we can adopt "that we can abide by that will help us drive business "in a different way and close this chasm of disparity "between business and IT?" >> And Dave, your perspective on the BizOps coalition, helping organizations to sort through these challenges. >> Yeah. I'm going to share a little bit of a personal story. So, I must admit that I wasn't keen on the whole idea, and Serge sent me some stuff and he's like, "Could you just provide some feedback." And I did, and then there was a press release with my name on it. I saw, I was like, "Oh my God! "I better get involved because I don't want to "have my name associated "with something that doesn't make sense" But I've actually been surprisingly, I've actually found it a lot more positive than I thought because of exactly what Pierre's saying. So, basically, the coalition is a group of vendors, a bucolic of consultants, some pseudo thought leaders that think they are very thoughtful and maybe they're not, people like me. (Pierre laughs) And what we're doing though, is actually trying to get some clarity of terminology, get some clarity of, what are the principles? What are those key principles? How do they relate to each other? Get some, some synergy to allow, 'cause there's so much noise out there. And hopefully, this is going to say, "Okay, this is what BizOps is. "This is why it's important. "These are some simple things." And then hopefully, because of the breadth that Serge and others have managed to get in terms of membership, we're going to get all of those organizations to be consistently talking about these things, which will then create pressure on the market to actually start adopting these things in the way that we're proposing, or challenge those ideas and then make them better. So, I'm kind of excited about it, surprisingly, 'cause the last thing we need is yet another manifesto and group of people that spend their whole time talking about things and never getting anything done. But actually I think there might be some valuable stuff that comes out here and we're going to inspect and adapt to make sure it is valuable. And if it isn't, we will stop. (chuckles) (Lisa laughs) >> And Serge, strap us up with your thoughts and extending that value. >> Look, we started the BizOps manifesto really with kind of a very simple observation. Everybody's talking about the same stuff, right? But you have a value stream management church, the digital product management's church, the DevOps church, with Scrum church, the safe church. Right? But we're all saying the same thing. But we create so much confusion with our large enterprise customers, but it's just not a grain on a set of principles. And just saying like, look, fundamentally, we're all talking about the same thing. And there are process aspects, there are cultural aspects. There is what you measure. But fundamentally we agree on the same core set of principles. And so for me, the BizOps manifesto, first and foremost is to get the stakeholders from these different communities together, and recognize that, at the end of the day, we share the same values and create some clarity to the market as to how these pieces fit to one another. The second aspect, which is more from our point of view, as one of the vendors of tools, right? There's tons of tools out there. We talk a lot about kind of measuring business outcomes as a primary way to actually align to everybody in our organization. Well, today if you look at any of these organizations, on average, they use about 40 different tools on one of these value streams. None of that stuff integrates with one another. It's extremely difficult for an organization to be able to trace from an investment, all the way to stuff that delivers value and production to a customer. And so, one of my hopes for the coalition is that we start to actually provide some platform, data models, ontologies, to start to integrate those different tools to facilitate that kind of integration. So, those are kind of the two things which I think we can really help kind of develop and and improve on. >> Well, we know that there's a tremendous amount of folks out there that are wanting to embrace agility across the business, identifying areas where they need to do work. So, great advice from the three of you. Thank you so much for joining me on this power panel today and sharing what organizations can do to really embrace that agility across the organization. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Pierre Viljoen, Dave West and Serge Lucio. I'm Lisa Martin. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of AWS reInvent Executive Summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >> Welcome everyone to theCUBE's coverage of Accenture Executive Summit here at AWS reInvent. I'm your host Rebecca Knight. For this segment we have two guests. First we have Helen Davis. She is the Senior Director of Cloud Platform Services, Assistant Director for IT and Digital for the West Midlands Police. Thanks so much for coming on the show, Helen. >> Welcome. >> And we also have Matthew Pound. He is Accenture Health and Public Service Associate Director and West Midlands Police Account Lead. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Matthew. >> Thank you for having me. >> So we are going to be talking about delivering data-driven insights to the West Midlands Police force. Helen, I want to start with you. Can you tell us a little bit about the West Midlands Police force? How big is the force and also what were some of the challenges that you were grappling with prior to this initiative? >> Yes, certainly. So West Midlands Police is the second largest police force in the UK, outside of the Metropolitan Police in London. We have an excessive 11,000 people work at West Midlands Police serving communities through and across the Midlands region. So geographically we're quite a big area as well as being population density having that at a high level. So the reason we sort of embarked on the data-driven insights platform and which was a huge change for us was for a number of reasons. Namely we had a lot of disparate data which was spread across a range of legacy systems that were many, many years old with some duplication of what was being captured and no single view for offices or support staff. Some of the access was limited. You have to be in an actual police building on a desktop computer to access it. Other information could only reach offices on the front line through a telephone call back to one of our enabling services where they would do a manual checkup look at the information, then call the offices back and tell them what they needed to know. So it was a very long laborious process not very efficient. And we certainly weren't exploiting the data that we had in a very productive way. >> So it sounds like as you're describing an old clunky system that needed a technological reimagination, so what was the main motivation for making this shift? >> It was really about making us more efficient and more effective in how we do business. So certainly as an IT leader and some of my operational colleagues, we recognize the benefits that data analytics could bring in a policing environment, not something that was really done in the UK at the time. We have a lot of data, so we're very data rich in the information that we have, but we needed to turn it into information that was actionable. So that's where we started looking for technology partners and suppliers to help us and sort of help us really with what's the art of the possible, this hasn't been done before so what could we do in this space that's appropriate for policing. >> Helen I love that idea. What is the art of the possible, can you tell us a little bit about why you chose AWS? >> I think really as with all things, when we're procuring apartment in the public sector, there are many rules and regulations quite rightly because you would expect that to be because we're spending public money so we have to be very, very careful and it's a long process and we have to be open to public scrutiny. So we sort of look to everything, everything that was available as part of that process, but we recognize the benefits that Cloud would provide in this space because we like moving to a Cloud environment. We would literally be replacing something that was legacy with something that was a bit more modern. That's not what we wanted to do. Our ambition was far greater than that. So I think in terms of AWS, really, it was around the scalability, interoperability, just things like the disaster recovery service, the fact that we can scale up and down quickly, we call it dialing up and dialing back. It's page go. So it just sort of ticked all the boxes for us. And then we went through the full procurement process, fortunately it came out on top for us. So we were able to move forward, but it just sort of had everything that we were looking for in that space. >> Matthew, I want to bring you into the conversation a little bit here. How are you working with the West Midlands Police, sorry, and helping them implement this Cloud-first journey? >> I guess by January the West Midlands Police started paver five years ago now. So we set up a partnership with the force I wanted to operate in a way that was very different to a traditional supplier relationship. Security that the data difference insights program is one of many that we've been working with West Midlands over the last five years. As having said already Cloud gave a number of advantages certainly from big data perspective and the things that that enabled us today from an Accenture to that allowed us to bring in a number of the different teams that we have say Cloud teams, security teams, interacted from a design perspective, as well as more traditional services that people would associate with the country. >> I mean, so much of this is about embracing comprehensive change to experiment, and innovate, and try different things. Matthew, how do you help an entity like West Midlands Police think differently when there are these ways of doing things that people are used to, how do you help them think about what is the art of the possible, as Helen said? >> There's a few things to that, what is critical is trying to co-create solutions together. Yeah, there's no point just turning up with what we think is the right answer, trying to collectively work through the issues that the force are saying and the outcomes they're looking to achieve rather than simply focusing on a long list of requirements I think was critical and then being really open to working together to create the right solution rather than just trying to pick something off the shelf that maybe doesn't fit the full set of requirements in the way that it should do. >> Right, it's not always a one size fits all. >> Absolutely not. What we believe is critical is making sure that we're creating something that met the forces needs in terms of the outcomes they're looking to achieve the financial envelopes that were available and how we can deliver those in a iterative agile way rather than spending years and years working towards an outcome that is going outdate before you even get that. >> So Helen, how are things different? What kinds of business functions and processes have been re-imagined in light of this change and this shift? >> It's actually unrecognizable now in certain areas of the business as it was before. So to give you a little bit of context, when we started working with Accenture and AWS on need data driven insights program, it was very much around providing what was called locally, a wizzy tool for our intelligence analyst to interrogate data, look at data, decide whether they could do anything predictive with it. And it was very much sort of a back office function to sort of tidy things up for us and make us a bit better in that area or a lot better in that area. And it was rolled out to a number of offices, a small number on the front line. Really it was in line with the mobility strategy that we had where officers were getting new smartphones for the first time to do sort of a lot of things on policing apps and things like that to again, to avoid them having to keep driving back to police stations, et cetera. And the pilot was so successful. Every officer now has access to this data on their mobile devices. So it literally went from a handful of people in an office somewhere using it to do sort of clever whizzbang things to every officer in the force being able to access that level of data at their fingertips literally. So what they would touch we've done before is if they needed to check an address or check details of an individual just as one example, they would either have to, in many cases, go back to a police station to look it up themselves on a desktop computer while they would have to make a call back to a centralized function and speak to an operator, relay the questions either wait for the answer or wait for a call back with the answer when those people are doing the data interrogation manually. So the biggest change for us is the self-service nature of the data we now have available. So officers can do it themselves on their phone, wherever they might be. So the efficiency savings from that point of view are immense. And I think just parallel to that is the quality of our data because we had a lot of data, but just because you've got a lot of data and a lot of information doesn't mean it's big data and it's valuable necessarily. So again, it was having the single source of truth as we call it. So you know that when you are completing those safe searches and getting the responses back, that it is the most accurate information we hold. And also you get an it back within minutes as opposed to half an hour, an hour or a drive back to a station. So it's making officers more efficient and it's also making them safer. The more efficient they are, the more time they have to spend out with the public doing what we all should be doing. >> Have you seen that kind of return on investment because what you were just describing with all the steps that we'd needed to be taken in prior to this to verify and address say, and those are precious seconds when someone's life is on the line in sort of in the course of everyday police work. >> Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It's difficult to put a price on it. It's difficult to quantify. But all the minutes here and that certainly add up to a significant amount of efficiency savings, and we've certainly been able to demonstrate the officers are spending less time at police stations as a result and more time out on the frontline. Also they're safer because they can get information about what may or may not be and address what may or may not have occurred in an area before very, very quickly without having to wait. >> Matthew, I want to hear your observations of working so closely with this West Midlands Police. Have you noticed anything about changes in its culture? In its operating model in how police officers interact with one another? Have you seen any changes since this technology change? >> What's unique about the West Midlands Police is the buy-in from the top and the chief and his exact team and Helen is the leader from an IT perspective. The entire force is bought in so what is a significant change break ground. And that trickles through everyone in the organization change is difficult and there's a lot of time effort. There's been person to bake the technical delivery and the business change and adoption aspects around each of the projects. But you can see the step change that is making in each aspect to the organization and where that's putting West Midlands Police as a leader in by technology on policing in the UK and I think globally. >> And this is a question for both of you because Matthew, as you said, change is difficult and there is always a certain intransigence in workplaces about this is just the way we've always done things and we're used to this and don't try to get us to do anything new here, it works. How do you get the buy-in that you need to do this kind of digital transformation? >> I think it would be wrong to say it was easy. We also have to bear in mind that this was one program in a five-year program. So there was a lot of change going on both internally for some of our back office functions, as well as frontline officers. So with DDI in particular, I think that the step change occurred when people could see what it could do for them. We had lots of workshops and seminars where we all talk about big data and it's going to be great and it's data analytics and it's transformational, and quite rightly people that are very busy doing a day job that not necessarily technologists in the main and I'm particularly interested quite rightly so in what we are not dealing with the Cloud, and it was like, yeah, okay it's one more thing. And then when they started to see on their phones and what teams could do, that's when it started to sell itself. And I think that's when we started to see the stack change, and if we have any issues now it's literally our help desks in meltdown 'cause everyone's like, we can't manage without this anymore. And I think that speaks for itself. So it doesn't happen overnight. It sort of incremental changes and then that's a step change in attitude. And when they see it working and they see the benefits, they want to use it more. And that's how it's become fundamental to our policing by itself really without much selling. >> Matthew, Helen just made a compelling case for how to get buy-in. Have you discovered any other best practices when you are trying to get everyone on board for this kind of thing? >> We've used a lot of the traditional techniques, things around comms and engagement. We've also used things like 30-day challenge and nudge theory around how can we gradually encourage people to use things. I think there's a point with all of this around, how do we just keep it simple and keep it user centric from an end user perspective? I think DDI is a great example of where the technology is incredibly complex. The solution itself is extremely large and it's been very difficult to get to live it, but at the heart of it is a very simple front end for the user to encourage it and take that complexity away from them. I think that's been critical through the whole piece of DDI. >> One final word from Helen. I want to hear where do you go from here? What is the longterm vision? I know that this has made productivity savings equivalent to 154 full-time officers. What's next? >> I think really it's around exploiting what we've got. And I use the phrase quite a lot, dialing it up, which drives my technical architects crazy, but because it's apparently not that simple, but we've been through significant change in the last five years and we are still continuing to batch all of those changes into day operational policing. But what we need to see now is we need to exploit and build on the investments that we've made in terms of data and claims specifically, the next step really is about expanding our pool of data and all functions. So that we keep getting better and better at this. The more we do, the more data we have, the more refined we can be, the more precise we are with all of our actions. We're always being expected to, again, look after the public purse and do more for flavs. And I think this is certainly an applied journey and cloud-first by design, which is where we are now is helping us to be future-proofed. So for us, it's very much an investment. And I see now that we have good at embedded in operational policing for me, this is the start of our journey, not the end. So it's really exciting to see where we can go from here. >> Exciting times indeed. Thank you so much Helen and Matthew for joining us. I really appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> And you are watching theCUBE stay tuned for more of theCUBE's coverage of the AWS reInvent Accenture Executive Summit. I'm Rebecca Knight. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of AWS Public Sector Online brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hi and welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of AWS Summit Online. I'm Stu Miniman your host for this segment. Always love when we get to talk to the practitioners in this space and of course at AWS Public Sector, broad diversity of backgrounds and areas, everything from government to education and the like, so really happy they were able to bring us Joshua Spence, he is the Chief Technology Officer, from West Virginia in the Office of Technology. Josh, thank you so much for joining us. >> I appreciate the invitation to be here. >> All right so, technology for an entire state, quite a broad mandate, when you talk about that, maybe give our audience a little bit of your background and the role of your organization for West Virginia. >> Yeah, absolutely so in the public sector space, especially at state government, we're involved in a myriad of services for government to the citizens and from a central IT perspective, we're seeking to provide those enterprise services and support structures to keep those costs controlled and efficient and be able to enable these agencies to service the citizens of the state. >> Excellent, maybe just to talk about the role of the state versus more local, from a technology standpoint, how many applications do you manage? How many people do you have? Is everything that you do in the Cloud, or do you also have some data centers? just give us a little thumbnail sketch if you would, of what what's under that umbrella. >> Sure, absolutely I think you'll see at the state level we have... We typically administer a lot of the federal programs that come down through funding, ranging from health and human resources to environmental protection, to public safety you've got, just a broad spectrum of services that are being provided at the state level and so the central office, the Office of Technology, Services approximately 22,000 state employees and their ability to carry out those services to the citizens. And then of course you have like local government, like in State of West Virginia with 55 counties, and then you're following municipalities. The interesting thing though in public sector is from the citizen's perspective, government is government, whether it's local, state or federal. >> Yeah, that's such a good point and right now of course there's a strain on everything. With the global pandemic, services from the public sector are needed more than ever, maybe help us understand a little bit things like work from home and unemployment, I expect, may require a shift and some reaction from your office. So tell us what's been happening in your space the last few months. >> Yeah absolutely, well, the first part you get the work from home piece rate, West Virginia, although the last state to have a confirmed test positive of COVID-19, we were in a little bit of in a position of advantage as we were watching what was happening across the world, across the country and so we didn't hesitate to react in West Virginia and through great leadership here, we shut down the state quickly, we put protections in place to help, show up and prevent the spread of COVID. And to do that though with the government facilities, government services, we had to be able to enable a remote workforce and do so very quickly, at a scale that no one ever anticipated having to do. Coop plans for the most part rejected just picking up from the location you're working at to go work at another centralized location. No one really ever thought, "Well, we wouldn't be able to all congregate to work." So that created our first challenge that we had to respond to. The second challenge was then how do we adjust government services to interface with citizens from a remote perspective and in addition to that a surge of need. And when you look at unemployment all across the country, the demand became exponentially larger than what was ever experienced. The systems were not equipped to take on that type of load. And we had to leverage technology to very quickly adapt to the situation. >> Yeah, I'd love you to drill in a little bit on that technology piece. Obviously you think about certain services, if I had them, just in a data center and I needed it all of a sudden ramp up, do I run into capacity issues? Can I actually get to that environment? How do I scale that up fast? The promise of Cloud always has been well, I should be able to react immediately, I have in theory infinite scale. So what has been your experience, are there certain services that you say, "Oh boy, I'm so glad I have them in the Cloud." and has there been any struggles with being able to react to what you're dealing with. >> Well yeah the struggles have absolutely been there and it's been a combination of not just on-premise infrastructure, but then legacy infrastructure. And that's what we saw when we were dealing with the unemployment surge here in West Virginia, just from a citizen contact perspective, being able to answer the phone calls that were coming in, it was overwhelming and what we found is we unfortunately had a number of phone systems all supporting whether it's the central office or the regional office, they were all disparate, some of which were legacy. We therefore had no visibility on the metrics, we didn't even know how many calls were actually coming in a day. When you compound that the citizen's just trying to find answers, well, they're not going to just call the numbers you provide, they're going to call any numbers. So then they're now also calling other agencies seeking assistance just 'cause they're wanting help and that's understandable. So we needed to make a change, we need to make change very quickly. And that's when we looked to see if a solution in the Cloud might be a better option. And would it enable us to not only correct the situation, get visibility and scale, what could we do so extremely quick because the time to value was what was real important. >> Excellent, so my understanding that you were not using any cloud-based contact center before this hit. >> We were in only... There were some other agencies that had some hosted contact center capabilities, but on a small scale. This was the first large project around a Cloud Contact Center, and needed to run the project from Go Live or decision to go forward on a Friday at one o'clock and to roll over the first call center on the following Monday at 6:00 p.m. was a speed that we had never seen before. >> Oh boy yeah, I think back, I worked in telecom back in the 90s and you talk about a typical deployment you used to measure months and you're talking more like hours for getting something up and running and there's not only the technology, there's the people, the training, all these sorts of things there, so, yeah tell us, how did you come to such a fast decision and deployment? So you walk us through a little bit of that. >> Sure, so we went out to the market and asked several providers to give us their solution proposals and to do so very quickly 'cause we knew we had to move quickly and then when upon evaluation of the options before us, we made our selection and indicate that selection and started working with both the Cloud provider and the integrator, to build out a phased approach deployment of the technology. Phase one was, hey, let's get everybody calling the same 800 number as best as we can. And then where we can't get the 800 number be that focal point, let's forward all other phone numbers to the same call center. Because before we were able to bring the technology and our only solution was to put more people on the phones and we had physical limitations there. So we went after, the Amazon contact center or our integrator a Smartronix and we were able to do so very quickly and get that phase one change in place, which then allowed us to decide what was phase two and what was going to be phase three. >> Josh, you've got some background in cybersecurity, I guess in general, there's been a raised awareness and need for security with the pandemic going on, bad actors are still going in there. I've talked to some when they're rolling out their call centers, they need to worry about... Sounds like you've got everything in your municipality. So might not need to worry about, government per se but, I guess if you could touch on security right now for what's happening in general and anything specific about the contact center that you need to make sure that people working from home were following policy, procedure, not breaking any regulation and guidelines. >> Yeah, absolutely I think the most important piece of the puzzle when you're looking at security is understanding, so it's always a question of risk, right? If you're seeking first and foremost, to put in security with the understanding that now, hey we've put it in we don't have to think about it anymore. That's not the answer 'cause you're not going to stop all risk, right? You have to weigh it and understand which risks you need to address so that's really important piece. The second part that we've looked at in the current situation with the response to COVID is not only do we see threat actors trying to take advantage of the circumstances, right? Because more people are working from home, there are less computers on the hard network, right? They're now either VPN-ing in or they are just simply outside the network and there may be limited visibility that central agency or the central entity has on those devices. So what do you do? We got to extend that protection out to the account and to the devices itself and not worry so much about the boundary, right? 'cause the boundary now is a lot in all and since it purposes the accounts, but then I think an additional piece of the puzzle right now is to look at how important technology is to your organization, look at the role it's performing in enabling your ability to continue to function remotely (indistinct) the risk associated with those devices becoming compromised or unavailable. So, we see that the most important aspects of our security changes were to extend that protection as best we could to push out education to the users on the changing threats that might be coming their way. >> Yeah, it's fascinating to think if this pandemic had hit 10 years ago, you wouldn't have the capability of this. I'm thinking back to like, well, we could forward numbers to a certain place and do some cascading, but the Cloud Contact Center, absolutely wasn't available. Have you had a chance to think about now that you have this capability, what this means as we progress down the road, do you think you'll be keeping a hybrid model or stay fully Cloud once people are moving back to the offices? >> Well, I definitely think that the near future is a hybrid model and we'll see where it goes from there. There's workloads without a doubt that are better served, putting them in the Cloud, giving you that on demand scalability. I mean, if we look at what a project like this would have required, had we had to procure equipment, install equipment, there was just no time to do that. So having the services, the capability, whether it's microservices or VMS or whatever, all available, just don't need be turned on and configure to be used, it's just there's a lot of power there. And as government seeks to develop digital government, right? How do we transition from providing services where citizens stand in line to doing it online? I think Cloud's going to continue to play a key piece in that. >> Yeah I'm wondering if you could speak a little bit to the financial impact of this. So typically you think about, I roll out a project, it's budgeted, we write it off over a certain number of years, Cloud of course by its nature is there's flexibility and I'm paying for what I'm using, but this was something that was unexpected. So how were you... Did you have oversight on this? Was there additional funding put out? How was that financial discussion happening? >> Yeah, so that's a big piece of the puzzle when a government entity like a state is under a state of emergency, the good thing is there's processes and procedures that we leverage regularly to understand how we're going to fund those response activities. And then the Federal Government plays a role also in responding to states of emergency that enable the state and local government to have additional funding to cover during the state of emergency. So that makes things a little easier to start in a sense, I think the bigger challenge is going to be what comes from the following years after COVID, because obviously tax revenues are going to take a hit across the board. And what does that mean to government budgets that then in turn are going to have to be adjusted? So the advantage of Cloud services and other type technology services where they're sold under that OPEX model, do give states flexibility in ways to scale services, scale solutions as needed and give us a little bit more flexibility in adjusting for budget challenges. >> Yeah, it's been fascinating to watch, we know how the speed of adoption in technology, tends to run at a certain pace. The last three months, there are definitely certain technologies that there's been massive acceleration like you've discussed. So, I'm wondering that you've had the modernization, things like the unemployment claims was the immediate requirement that you needed, but have there been other pieces, other use cases and applications that this modernization, leverage of cloud technologies is impacting you today or other things that you see a little bit down the path. >> Yeah, I think it's... We're going to see a modernization of government applications designed to interface directly with the citizen, right? So we're going to want to be able to give the citizen opportunity, whether it's on a smartphone, a tablet, or a computer to interface with government, whether it's communications to inquire about a service, or to get support around a service or to file paperwork around a service. We want to enable that digital interface and so that's going to be a big push, and it's going to be amplified. There was already a look towards that, right? With the smart cities, smart states and some of the initiatives there, but what's happened with COVID basically it's forced the issue of not being able to be physically together, well, how do you do it using technology? So if there was a silver lining in an awful situation that we have with COVID, one might be that, we've been able to stretch our use of technology to better serve the citizens. >> Well, great, really really impressive story. Josh, I want to give you the final word. Just what advice would you give your peers kind of dealing with things in a crisis, and any other advice you'd have in general about managing and leveraging the Cloud? >> I think in a closing comment, I think one of the most important aspects that can be considered is having that translation capability of talking to the business element, the government service component and understand what they're trying to achieve, what their purpose or their mission is and then being able to tie it back to the technology in a way to where all parties, all stakeholders understand their roles and responsibilities, to make that happen. Unfortunately I think what happens too often is on the business side or the non-technical side of the equation, they see the end state, but they don't truly understand their responsibilities to get to the end state. And it's definitely a partnership and the better that partnership's understood at the start, the more successful the project's going to have to get there under budget and on time. >> Well, thank you so much for joining us, best of luck with the project and please stay safe. >> Thank you for having me. >> All right, stay tuned for more coverage from AWS Public Sector Online. I'm Stu Miniman and thank you for watching theCUBE. (soft music)

(upbeat music) >> Female: From our studios, in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this is a Cube conversation. >> Hey welcome back everybody. Jeffrey here with The Cube. We're in our Palo Alto studios today for a Cube conversation. Again, it's a little bit of a let down in the crazy conference season, so it gives us an opportunity to do more studio work, and check in with some folks. So we're really excited to have our next guest. We'd love to talk to practitioners, people out on the front lines that are really living this digital transformation experience. So we'd like to welcome in, all the way from Toronto, the NBA champion, Toronto, home of the Raptors, he's Phillip Armstrong, global C.I.O., and E.V.P. from Great-West Lifeco. Philip, great to see you. >> Thanks, Jeff, good afternoon. >> And I got to say congrats, you know, you took the title away from us this year, but a job well done, and we all rejoiced in Canada's happy celebration. I'm sure it was a lot of fun. >> Lots of excitement here in Toronto for sure. >> Great, so let's jump into it. A lot of conversations about digital transformations. You're right in the heart of it, you're running a big company that's complicated, it's old. So first off, give us a little bit of a background just for people that aren't familiar with Great-West Lifeco in terms of how long you've been around, the scale and size, and then we can get into some of the challenges and the opportunities that you're facing. >> Sure, I'd love to. Actually, one of probably the world's best kept secrets. So Great-West Lifeco is a holding company, and underneath that company, we have a number of companies. So for example in the U.S., you may have heard of Putnam Mutual Funds out of Boston, or Empower Retirement Services, the second largest pension administration company in the United States out of Denver. We have companies called Canada Life and Irish Life. We operate in Europe, the U.S., and Canada. We were formed in 1847, so we're 170 odd years old. Very old, established company, in fact, the first life insurance company to get its charter in Canada. So we were certainly not born digital, we were not born in the cloud. In fact, we weren't even born analog. I think our history goes back to parchment, green ink, and "I" shares. So this has been quite the digital transformation for our company. >> So when you think about digital transformation, insurance companies are always interesting, right? Because insurance companies, by their very nature, they created actuarials, and you guys have always been doing math, and you've always been forecasting, and building models. What does digital transformation mean for you, and that core business in the way you look at insurance and the products that you offer your customers? >> It's been massive, it's had a massive impact right across our company. We have 30 million customers around the globe. Customers' expectations are rising every single day. They want online access to their information. We're an insurance company, but we're also a wealth management company, so we're open to market timing and exposures to the market. Our pace in our business has accelerated dramatically. So just the expectation, the other companies, digitally-native companies are setting with our customers, has forced us to completely re-examine our traditional business models that have served us so well, almost to the point where you have to take a hand grenade and just blow it up and start again. This is very, very difficult when you've got actuarial tables that are working, that are built on hundreds of years of experience. We're moving into a completely new world now. We've come from a world where security has always been very important to us. We manage 1.4 trillion dollars of other people's money. We have traditional business models and traditional data centers, and we operate at a certain level, a certain pace, and all of that, all of that, now has to change. We have skill sets and people who are very, very technical in nature, in their jobs, and have we got the right skills to take us into the future? Can we future-proof our business? This has been, not just a technology transformation, but a massive cultural transformation for our company. A reinvention of all of our business models, the way we look at our customers. A lot of our business is done through advisors. We have half a million advisors around the world that give financial planning and advice to people, and allow them to have some financial security. Our relationship with them has to change, and their expectations in using technology has to change. So this digital transformation is only a thin sliver of the transformation that our company has been going through globally over the last few years. >> That's interesting, you talked on so many topics there I want to kind of break it down into three. One is the consumerization of IT that we've talked about over and over and over, and people's experience with Yahoo and Amazon, and shopping with Google and Google Maps, really drives their expectations of the way they want to interact with every application on their phone when they want to, how they want to. So that's interesting in terms of your customer engagement. The other piece I want to go in a little bit is your own employees. You've been around since 1847, the expectations of the kids that you're hiring out of college today, and what they expect in their work environment, also driven in a big part by the phones that they carry in their pockets. And then the third leg of the stool are these, I forget the word that you used, but your partners or associates, or these advisors that you are enabling with your technology stack, but they're, I assume, independent folks out there just like you see at the local insurance office, that you need to enable them in a very different way. You're sitting in the middle. How do you break down the problems across those three groups of people, or contingencies, or constituencies? That's the word I'm looking for. >> Let's start with our advisors. We have many relationships with advisors. We have a relationship with an advisory force that is almost like a tied sales force that is positioned just to sell our products. We have advisors who are quite independent, and yet they sell our products. And then we have advisors that occasionally sell our products, and everything in between. Companies that are advisors, sort of managing general agents. We have bank assurance arrangements. We have all kinds of distribution arrangements around the globe, with our company to distribute our products. But the heart of what we do is an advice-based channel with many variants. So what do those advisors want? The want tools, online tools, they want safe connectivity, they want fast access to the internet, they want to be able to pull in advice, they want video conferencing, they want to be able to be reachable by their customers, and really leverage technology to allow them to provide that timely advice and be responsive to market changes. Almost delivering a bespoke service to each individual, in yet a mass way that's simple and timely. When you look at our employees, our employees pretty much want the same thing. They want safe access to the internet, they want safe access to the cloud and our applications. We've had to go through massive amounts of cultural change and training and education to bring our employees into the new world with new skills and equip them, just ways of working. Video, introducing video into our company, upgrading our networks. The change behind all of this different way of working has been phenomenal. I wish you could see the building we're sitting in today, that I'm coming to you from today. It's a stone building that was built in the early 1930s, a prominent landmark here in Toronto. And from the outside, it looks archaic. When you walk into the lobby, it's all art deco and beautiful. They can't make buildings like this today. But in many ways, it epitomizes our company, because then you go up the elevators and walk onto the floors, and it's all open plan, all digitally enabled. We have Microsoft Teams in every meeting room. The floors are all modern and newly decorated and designed to allow us to collaborate and create new solutions for our customers. It's a real juxtaposition . And that, I feel, is a good analogy for our company right now, and what we're going through. >> So let's talk about how it's changed in terms of the infrastructure. Your job is to both provide tools to all these different constituents you talked about as well as protect it. So it's this interesting dynamic where before, you could build a moat, and keep everybody inside the brick building. But you can't do that anymore, and security has changed dramatically both with the cloud as well as all these hybrid business relationships that you described. So how did you address that? How have you seen that evolve over the last several years, and what are some of the top of mind issues that you have when you're thinking about I've got to give access to all these people. They want fast, efficient tools, they want really a great way for them to execute their job. At the same time, I've got to keep that $1.4 trillion and all that that represents secure. Not an easy challenge. >> Not easy at all. A few years ago, it was pretty trendy to say we're going to move everything to the cloud. I think now, especially for large, complex companies like ours, a hybrid cloud is the way to go. I think we're starting to see a lot more CIOs like myself say, yes I'd love to take advantage of the cloud, and I'm certainly moving a lot of my footprint to the cloud. To start with it was because of cost, but now I think it's because of agility and access to new technologies as well. But when you move things to the cloud, you have to be very cautious around how you do that. We have in-house data centers that we have systems, administration systems that are obfuscated from our clients by fancy front ends and easy-to-use experiences. And they're running on pennies on the dollar, and you can't make a business case to move that to the cloud. So a hybrid cloud is the way to go for us. But what we realized very quickly is that we need to push our Cyrus security and defenses out to the intelligent edge, out to the edge of the internet. Stop bad things happening, stop malware, stop infections coming into our organization before they even come into our organization. The cloud has complicated that. We're reducing our surface areas. I heard just the other day a colleague of mine said yeah the cloud is fabulous, it's a faster way to deliver your mistakes to your customers and in many ways, it is, if you're not careful with what you're doing. We've deployed technology like Zscaler and other types of sand-boxing technology. But it's always a cat and mouse game. The bad guys are putting artificial intelligence into their malware. We saw the other day a piece of malware coming into our organization through email, and when it was exploded, the first thing it did was try to check signatures to see if it was in a virtualized environment. And if it was, it just went back to sleep again and didn't activate. The nice thing about Zscaler and some of the technologies that I'm deploying is that they're proprietary. They don't have these signatures. And so we can screen out, we literally get hundreds of thousands, close to millions, of malware attempts coming into our organization on a daily basis. It is a constant fight. What we've also found is that organizations like ours are big targets. What companies are trying to do is not steal our data, because they know that we won't pay ransoms. What we'd like to do is spend that money protecting our customers with credit monitoring, or changing their passwords and helping them deal with if there is a breach. So the bad guys have changed their tactics. Instead of stealing our data, they'd like to try and penetrate our networks and our systems and cripple us. They would really like to bring us down. And that determines a different strategy and protection. >> You touch on so many things there, Philip. We could go for like three hours I think just on follow-ups to that answer. Let me drill in on a couple. One of them, I'm just curious to get your perspective on how you finance insurance. You made an interesting comment, you don't pay ransom, and you have a budget that you spend on security within all the other priorities you have on your plate. But you can't spend everything on insurance, you can't get ultimate 100% protection. So when you think about your trade-offs, when you think about security almost from like an insurance or business mindset, what's the right amount to spend? How do you think about the right amount to spend for security versus everything else that you have to spend on? >> That's a great question, and I've been talking to my peers around what is the right amount of money? You could spend tons and tons of money on Cyber and still be breached. You can do everything right and again, still be breached. You just have to be very pragmatic about where you direct your resources. For us, it was hardening the perimeter was the start. We wanted to stop things getting in as best we could, so we went out to the cloud and put defenses right at the edge, right at the intelligent edge, and extended our network out. Then we went and said, what is our weakest link, and through social engineering and through dropping things onto people's desktops and them trying to breach into our network, we got some pretty sophisticated technology in end point detection. We monitor our devices using our SIM, we have a dedicated monitoring center that is global, that is in-house and staffed. We've built up a lot of capabilities around that. So then it becomes prioritizing your crown jewels, your most sensitive data, trying to put that most sensitive data into protected zones on your network, and clustering even more defenses around that most sensitive data. I'm a big believer in a defense in depth strategy, so I would have multiple layers of cyber security that overlap. So if you can manage to circumvent some, you might get caught by others. And really that's about it. It's been a struggle. We have a lot of people who specialize in risk-management in our company. So everyone's got an opinion, but I think this is a common challenge for global CIOs. >> I'll share you a pro-tip in a couple of the security shows. It seems HVAC systems are ripe for attack, and the funniest one I've every heard was the automated thermometer in a lobby fish tank at a casino that was the access point. So IOT adds a different challenge. >> Or vending machines. >> Yeah, but HVAC came up like five times out of ten, so watch our for those HVAC systems. But, we're here as part of the Zscaler program, and you've already mentioned them before, their name is on this screen. You've talked before about leveraging partners, and Zscaler specifically, but you mentioned a whole host of really the top names in tech. I wonder if you could give us a bit more color on how do you partner? It's a very different way to look at people in a relationship with a company and the reps that you deal with, versus just buying a product and putting in their product. You really talk about partnering with these companies to help you take on this ever-evolving challenge that is security. >> That's a fabulous question. I know that I cannot match the research and development budgets of some of these very large tech companies. And I don't have the expertise. They're specialists, this is what they do. We were the first company I think to install Zscaler in Canada. We have a great relationship with that company, and Jay's onto something here. He's a thought leader in this space. We've been very pleased with our cooperation and support we got from Zscaler in helping us with our perimeter. When we look inside our company, the network played a big part of delivering cyber security and protection for our customers. We placed a phone call over to Cisco and said come on in and help us with this. We need to completely revamp our network, build a leaf and spine architecture, software-defined network, state of the art, we really want the best and the brightest to come in and help us design this network globally for us. So Cisco has been a superb partner. Cisco has one North American lab, where they try out their new technologies and they advance their technologies. It's just down the street here in Toronto, so we've been able to avail ourselves with some pretty decent thought-leadership in the space. And then also FireEye has been absolutely superb working with them, and we developed pretty close relationships with them. We support their activities, they come in and help us with ours. We've used their consulting agency, Mandiant, quite a bit, to give us advice and help us protect our organization. And I think aligning yourself with these quality companies, Microsoft, I have to call out Microsoft, have been superb, starting from the desktop and moving us through, vertically aligned into the cloud, and providing cyber security every step of the way. You can't rely on one vendor, you have to make sure that these suppliers are partners. You turn vendors into partners and you make sure that they play well together, and that they understand what your priorities are and where you want to go. We've been very transparent with them around what we like and what we don't like, and what we think is working well and what isn't working well. We just build this ecosystem that has to work well in this day and age. >> Well Phillip I think that's a great summary, that it's really important to have partners, and really have a deeper business relationship than simply exchanging money for services. The only way, in this really rapidly evolving world, to get by, because nobody can do it by themselves. I think you summarized that very, very well. So final question before I let you go back to the open floor plan, and all the hard working people over there at Great-West Lifeco. What are you priorities for the balance of the year? I can't believe it's July already, this year is just zooming by. What are some of the things, as you look down the road, that you've got your eye on? >> Well we're certainly watching some of the geo-political activities. We have large operations in Europe, from my accent you can probably tell I'm a Brit. So we're watching Brexit and how that plays out. We're certainly trying to develop new and innovative products for our customers, and certain segments are interesting. The millennial segment, the transference of wealth from people in the later generations into earlier generations, passing wealth down to their kids. Retirement is a really big category for us, and making sure that people have good retirement options and retirement products. And of course, we're always kicking tires, and we're looking out for any opportunities in the M&A market as well, as our industry consolidates and costs rise. So that's kind of what's keeping us busy, and of course rolling out really cool technology. >> All right well thanks for taking a few minutes in your very busy day to spend it with us, and give us your story on the global transformation, the digital transformation and Great-West Life Company. >> You're very welcome, Jeff. Nice chatting with you. >> You too, thanks again. So he's Phil, I'm Jeff, you're watching The Cube. Just had a Cube Conversation out of Palo Alto studios. Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> From San Francisco it's theCUBE. Covering Conga Connect West 2018. Brought to you by Conga. >> Hey welcome back, everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE We are winding things down, or winding things up I'm not quite sure here at the Conga Connect West event 3,000, all dancing with their headphones on silent disco. We're excited to have the launch of a brand new magazine SF Society magazine. The managing director, Nadio Granata. Nadio, congratulations you just launched this today. >> We did yes, thank you, Jeff, yeah. >> So what is the objective, what is this all about? SF Society >> SF Society. It's about raising the profile of the partners in the SalesForce, I can see these guys, >> Like these guys, their profile is raised, so, so what was missing, what motivated, it's a lot of work to do a magazine. >> Okay, it is, it is. It's been a labor of love, I got to tell you that, but, SalesForce is a fantastic job, for SalesForce for its employees, within SalesForce but the partners, we want to raise an independent voice of the partners. And we talk about success, we talk about philanthropy, we talk about all the great things that going on, and most importantly the community. So that's what the magazine is about. >> There's just one problem though, Nadio. How many of these did you print? (laughing) >> Well, you know, I've got to be cautious, I had to be cautious, but we've printed, we've printed 5,000 for today, it's online and we expect to generate about 100,000 readership very, very quickly. >> Okay good, but I got good news and bad news. >> Go on. >> Did you hear the keynote? >> Yes I did. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> How many people are here? >> Oh I know there's a lot of people here. >> 171,000. So you, 5 plus 100, you got to go back to the printer. >> We're cautious, we're cautious. >> Alright, alright good. >> Thank you. >> So who's supporting this? Are you getting advertising to support it, how's it being supported? >> Yes, it's sponsored by advertisers, so Conga of course a great advertiser in there, we've got NataBox in there, we've got New Voice Media, we've got FRG, we've got loads of companies >> Have you got more magazines? >> Very positive, very positive >> Get those out of here. >> So, sponsored by advertising and that's the way forward. >> And how often does it come out? >> Quarterly. It's a quarterly magazine. >> A quarterly magazine. >> Ya it's global, we've got content from all over the world and we're looking to grow, it's a 48 page production, we're looking to grow that as we go forward. >> Kay, what's the online address, for people who need more information. >> Okay www.sfsocietymagazine.com >> Sfsocietymagazine.com check it out >> Yeah, that's not easy to say >> Quick, there's only 4,999 of em left and you're competing with 170,000 people. Alright. >> But get it online, guys, get it online. >> Get it online. Alright, Nadio thanks for taking a few minutes and nothing but best of luck on this thing. >> Thanks, Jeff. >> Alright, he's Nadio, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE we're at Conga, Connect West and SalesForce downtown San Francisco, come on down the party's just beginning. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> From San Francisco, it's The Cube, covering Conga Connect West 2018. Brought to you by Conga. >> Hey welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with the Cube. We're coming to the end of a long day here at the Conga Connect West Event. It's at The Thirsty Bear, just a couple doors down from Moscone South. And as you can see behind me, the silent disco has begun. You can't hear it, but they're all dancing. So, we're excited to have our next guest. He's Steve DeMarco, the chief revenue officer of Conga. Steve, great to see you. >> Great to be here, Jeff, thanks. >> So how about, your first week on the job you get to come on The Cube. Not a bad deal. (Jeff laughing lightly) >> It's fantastic. I'm a big fan of you guys, and it's great to be here. >> Thank you, and they're spending all your money on this big, expensive party. >> I know, I better go sell something. >> You better sell something. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> So, you just started. I'm teasing you, but what attracted you? You've been in the valley for a long time, you see a lot of opportunities. What attracted you to Conga? >> Well, I've known these guys for a while. I've known Matt Shultz, our CEO, and Bob DeSantis. Those guys are veterans. I've known them for a while. I've known of Conga for a while. I know what they do, I know how they help customers. And when the opportunity came up to join them, I jumped at it. It's kind of my dream job, to be honest with you. >> Oh that's awesome. >> What they sell, helping customers be more productive, they have a great customer base, fantastic products, great reputation. I mean, I don't want to oversell it, but it was an easy decision for me. >> Yeah well there's a lot of good stuff going on, like you said. >> Yeah. >> They're attached to this rocket ship. Got a 65-story building just down the street. >> That's right. >> That's a good one to attach to. >> That's right. >> And really playing in a good space. >> Yeah that's it, I've been in the Salesforce ecosystem with one company or another, for about 13 years now and so, I'm really familiar with Salesforce, and the partner opportunities here. So it was a perfect fit for me. >> Good, so I wanted to take it up a notch and talk about something I think is pretty special and under-reported and that's really when, you've got an ongoing relationship and a SAS relationship-- >> Yeah. >> When you're paying monthly, or annually, or whatever your payment rate is, it's a very different conversation. Customer, vendor relationship, than if I send you some software. I send it off and then I'll see you in 12 months for the 15 percent. >> Right. >> It's a fundamentally different way of being associated with a customer. >> Yeah, and me, like a lot of veterans in technology, started out selling software products as a perpetual license, right? And we would go and try to get a big check up front and then, whether the customer used the software or not, we didn't care. We got our money up front. Salesforce was one of the pioneers of the cloud solution, or delivering it as a SAS solution. And SAS really puts the power in the customer's hands, because you don't get all that money up front, they pay for it as a subscription. And as such, they can shut you off if they're not happy. >> Right. >> That's a very powerful concept. So vendors like Conga have to continuously improve our product and make our customers happy, period after period after period, in order to keep them renewing. >> Right. >> So it's a great concept, puts the power in the customer's hands, and it really pushes us to be better for our customers. >> You know, we heard this story earlier today with one of your customers, was talking about a successful implementation they had on the document creation system, but then they wanted to get into a new product, which I guess the contract system was so early, hadn't even delivered it. But she said to her boss, "Hey listen, I trust these guys, "they're not going to let me hang." >> That's right. >> "So I'm willing to take that bet. "We need this, and this is a partner "that that I feel comfortable "in making this investment." >> That's right, I mean Jeff, that's just a testament to Conga's place in the market. They've geen doing this for many years. They have thousands and thousands of extremely happy customers. Customers trust us. Customers trust Conga. That was another attraction to me. And for a customer to be able to take that kind of leap with a vendor, it's a very special thing. Conga's reputation proceeds itself, and that's how our customers feel about us. >> Right, and also Salesforce knew you were coming. So they baked a couple of your core products into their core products. >> Right. >> That worked out pretty well. >> That's huge. Salesforce now, I've known them for 12, 15 years, they don't do that. They do not do that very often. I mean, you can count on one hand how many partners they've actually baked into their product set. And so it's a special relationship we have with Salesforce. We're proud of it. But it's going to be a really good thing for them and their customers, working with Conga in that capacity. >> So last question, I think you've been here a week, you said? You're just getting going. So what are some of your priorities? You're coming in, fresh breath of air, a lot of enthusiasm, as you look forward, what is some of the stuff you're itching to get to work on? >> Well we're going to expand our partnerships, our SI partners, our systems integrated partners. We're going to continue to work really closely with Salesforce. It's all about growth. Grow, grow, grow. We have a great sales team today. We're going to really attack the market. We've got some great competition out there, so we're going to face them, and it's going to be a lot of fun. >> Alright well Steve, thanks for taking a few minutes of your time. I'll let you get back to the customers, the party. Get some headphones on and start dancing. >> Alright, thank you. >> He's Steve, I'm Jeff, and you're watching The Cube, we're at Conga Connect West at Salesforce. Thanks for watching, see you next time. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> From San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering Conga Connect West 2018. Brought to you by Conga. >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here at theCUBE, we're wrapping up a long day at Conga Connect West. The silent disco has started. If you've never done one of these, it's totally fun. You put it on, you can listen to the red, the green and the blue. >> We got three channels, that's right. >> Wow, great day today. >> Three DJs, three channels, I think you've got oldies, I've got top 40. >> I think I went EDM, I think I'm green. >> You got EDM, okay. >> I think, I know. >> I think red is oldies. >> Alright. >> So come on down to, well, it's probably too late, but-- >> Probably too late tonight. >> We're filling up the space here. >> Two more days at the Thirsty Bear. What do you have going on tomorrow entertainment-wise? >> Tomorrow, whole day of circus entertainment in the tent out back. Tomorrow night, Beats Antique which is a edgy, I think they played at Burning Man. >> Burning man. >> That's right. >> So they've got to have something going on. >> They're going to have something crazy going on. So we've got a circus tent out back, performances all day long. Open bar. >> Open bar. >> For everyone who's at Dreamforce. >> Open food. >> Food all day and by the way, we did not run out of food today. Unfortunately I heard Moscone did. (Jeff laughs) So, if you're hungry, come on down. Demo stations, solution stations. We've actually got a fire marshal in the house, so we're legal. >> Oh, did the fire marshal come on down? >> And we've got dancers right here. >> We got dancers. >> Dancers right here, he's on the red channel. >> You get the vibe. >> So the silent disco's pretty amazing 'cause you put the headphones on, only you can hear the music and you get to dance to your own beat. >> Except for your friends that have the same color. >> So you're green, I'm blue, We're all on our own. >> So we're on different beats. You get the message, it's Conga Connect West, Thirsty Bear. Free food, free drink, free entertainment and silent disco. Come on down. >> Come on down. >> Bob, great day. >> Thanks for being here. Great day today. >> Alright. Thanks for watching. >> Cheers. >> We're checking out, time to go dance, bye. (upbeat jingle)

>> From San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering Conga Connect West 2018. Brought to you by Conga. >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Rick here with theCube. The Mark Benny office finished this portion of the keynote, so we can get back to business here. Special event outside of sales force, the 171,000 people over watching Mark and the keynote. We're here at a special Conga event, it's called Conga Connect West. It's about 3,000 people they said they had last year, 3 days of taking over the thirsty bear, they've got free food, free drink, free entertainment, lot of demos, come on over. The invitation is open. Just make sure you come early because the line is really long, but we're excited to get into it with a practitioner, we love to talk to customers. So, really excited to have our next guest, Susan O'Leary, she's a continuous improvement leader 6and program manager for Abiomed. Great to see you. >> Hey Jeff, thank you so much for that introduction. I'm so excited to be here. >> Excellent, and with her is Will Spindla, the VP of marketing from Conga. Will, great to see you. Warming up before your panel tomorrow. >> Exactly. (laughs) >> So, first off, impressions of this show, it never fails to amaze me when we come to Dreamforce, what happens to downtown San Francisco. >> It's insane, isn't it? >> It is crazy. It never disappoints, there is so much going on at every moment, and especially right here at Connect West. >> Right. So, what is Abiomed, for folks that aren't familiar with the company? >> So, Abiomed, we're a class-3 medical device company. We make the world's smallest heart pump and our corporate mission is to recover hearts and save lives. And more recently, we have some commercials for our flagship product, the Impella product, on T.V. So I feel like we've really arrived at some point in the company's maturity that we have television commercials. >> Right, so what does class-3 mean? >> So, it's a certain level of classification within the FDA, and class-3 means essentially, in the simplest way, that it goes inside the body. >> Okay. >> So, the rigor at which it's controlled, and how products are introduced into market, have a very rigorous path for patient quality and compliance and safety, it's a pretty exciting space to be, but it's not easy to bring a product to market. >> And you've got hardware, I imagine you've got all kinds of crazy software, you probably have all types of continuous monitoring, not a simple device. >> No. >> And a very important one. >> A very important one. That's right. >> So we're here at Conga, Connect West, what do you guys do with Conga, where does Conga play in your world? >> So Conga has enabled Abiomed to do amazing things. We're here at Dreamforce, obviously as Salesforce customers, and we began our journey with Salesforce back in 2009, and we discovered that we had some business processes that still resided outside of Salesforce, that people were struggling with these PowerPoint presentations and putting together their sales forecast, and all the data that would really drive that lives in the Salesforce orb. A tour on the app exchange back probably 2010 I would say, Will, and Jeff, I found the composer product, and it was a pretty easy sell to our VP of sales, a quick proof of concept, taking certain data that people were manually manipulating and with the click of a button, here is your forecast blown up in all kinds of colors and charts and graphs, it was a game changer. >> All right, so that's early intro, right, 'cause the biggest knock on Salesforce, always, is getting sales people to use it, right, and changing behavior is much harder than writing software or developing software. So, did you find that that app was the killer app to get the sales team to actually use the tool? >> Well, so they were using- >> 'Cause everybody's got the same story, right, everyone's got PowerPoint, and a lot of times people use Salesforce for reporting, not actually working, and now it's double data entry, I can't stand it, but it sounds like this composer was really a game-changer for you. >> Well, it brought the best of both worlds together because our field organization was using Salesforce, they're doing their work in that application, and yet the model that leadership wanted for delivering their weekly forecast in their update was very, very specific, and you couldn't do that in any Salesforce report. You can do it in Excel. >> So the forecast model was outside of Salesforce driven by the executive leadership, even though the day-to-day work was happening inside of Salesforce? >> You're right, you're right. >> And this was like, "Oh, it happens over and over again?" >> (laughs) It was the visualization that was impossible in standard Salesforce reports, but you could build it in Excel, and then merge the data with the composer product, so that was our first use case, and we have invented so many more, but that got us in the door, so to speak. >> So, Will, have you ever heard that story before? >> Well, what I was going to say, I think it's interesting because I worked at Salesforce for about six years before I came to Conga, and one of the things that we often saw was that sales people sometimes put their data in Salesforce, unless they're coaxed very greatly, but what they actually don't do a lot of the time is leverage the data that's inside there once it's there. And so the nice part about having a tool like Conga is that you can make it so the sales people don't have to do anything with the data, right? You can automate- >> Exactly. >> Creation of reports and charts and PowerPoint presentations, so that the sales reps, they don't have to do anything. >> They just click a button. >> Click a button. >> They click a button, they have the relationships with their customers, they know how to win the deals, they know how to take all those conversations to the next level, and why do we want them crunching numbers and doing that? We don't want them doing that. There's no value in that. So, you find great tools that take the data and put it in a button, and game changed. >> Yeah, and then you can ensure that whatever process or policy your company, like Abiomed has, every single sales rep is within that guideline, so they're not making their own decisions, they're doing what the organization wants them to. >> That's right, they're following a tested and validated model that delivers what leadership wants. And I'm probably not joking if I say half a day on Friday, if you were a cardiology account manager, you would be trying to cobble this together in a PowerPoint and then turn it in to the office. Half a day. >> So the office is asking for a PowerPoint presentation on the updated status of your pipeline, basically? >> This very specific visualization model. And, with Composer, with how people are with data, they think that this is all they really need, but once they saw what we could put in that output document from Composer, it has grown to be an enormous analytic tool set for the field team that drives their forecast. >> I'm just curious in terms of the scale and the size of team, don't tell me anything out of school but, are you talking tens of reps, hundreds of reps? >> Hundreds of reps. >> Hundreds of reps. >> Globally, we have over 100 sales territories, and so we have easily 450 feet on the street. And certain people have different roles, right, so the cardiology account manager role is that forecasting leader in the company, that person is really clicking that button to generate that document, and there's well over 100 in our organization. >> So, Will, you hear these stories all the time, I'm sure, is Composer the killer app to get people to start to embrace this tool? Do you see that time and time again? >> Yeah, I think one of the nice parts about Composer is that you can, in some respects, direct your entire sales or organization on the way the company wants to showcase themselves, whether it's in reporting, whether it's highly branded and pixel-perfect documents, what we've seen a lot of people do is you may have a monthly or a quarterly business review. >> Oh, we do that! We have Composer for that. We have this beautifully crafted merge template that delivers a business review to our customers. Yeah, that was the second thing we did with Composer. >> That's right. >> Where we first did the forecast then we did the business review. >> Business review. >> Wow! >> And you can do that in Excel, or in PowerPoint, or in Word, or even in HTML, it just gives you the ability to take data, that sits inside Salesforce, and push it out in any format you want. And the nice part, too, is you can pull data from other systems. >> Right. >> So it can be in your ERP or your accounting system and brings it all into one spot. >> I just can't help but think of the poor guy on the receiving end of the 450 PowerPoint decks on Friday afternoon, I mean how did that get rolled up? >> Yeah, we had another process for that. >> I don't want to hear that one, that one sounds scary. >> There's the regional, there's a country base- >> Too much. >> And it's all Composer. It's all Composer. >> Last question for you, Susan. So, have you been able to leverage the success of Composer to basically expand into more applications in the Salesforce suite with Conga or other, to actually get your adoption up, and now start to add more and more applications? >> Yeah, that's a great question, Jeff, and certainly Composer was that early-adoption product that was such an easy sell, it had win-win written over it in capital letters, everybody really got it right away. "We're buying this, we're doing this." And then over the years, Conga in its development life cycle put out a couple other game-changing products that we also have, we have their Action Grid product, and their contract solution. >> Was that as easy of a sell? >> Yes. >> Okay. (laughs) >> Well, it wasn't IT organizations selling solution on business, business is saying, "We want a quoting platform, and we need something better than standard Salesforce." So, we started looking at what is now CPQ, but it was called Steelwork at the time, and then we needed to solve for the contract life cycle management part of that, and a contract product didn't even exist at the time. And we were looking at other solutions, and we were trying to make something work, and we learned about the contract product through a Connect event that a colleague of mine attended, and came back from that event, and just said "Sue, you've got to stop everything you're doing, you've got to go talk to Pete Castro at Conga, and you have to see this contract tool. Because I know we're almost at the end of this project, but literally you're going to rip out everything that we did before and you're going to want to do this." So guess what we did? We did it! >> Will, you can't let this one off your hip, I'm telling you. She's awesome. >> It was a tough timeline and that was part of the promise that we needed to hear back when we went to the table, was we can't miss our launch. >> Yeah, yeah. >> To do this pivot and switch and can we do it? >> But that's easy compared to getting sales people to change behavior, timelines are one thing, but if you got people to actually use the tool the way the tool is supposed to be used, then the ancillary benefits are tremendous. Thank you for sharing that story with us, Sue. >> You're very welcome, Jeff. We do have the Action Grid product, but I'm not the expert in that space, but I've seen some amazing things. >> You've got the sales people using Salesforce on a weekly basis, plant the flag and call it enough. Come on now! All right, so thanks again. He's Will, she's Sue, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCube for Conga Connect West at Salesforce Dreamforce in San Francisco, thanks for watching. (electronic music)

>> From San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering Conga Connect West 2018. Brought to you by Conga. >> Hey welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are winding down a very busy day here at the Conga Connect West. We're here at Salesforce. Benioff confirmed it. In the keynote 171,000 registered people. Hard to believe. We got about 3,000 of 'em here, hosted by Conga. Free drinks, free food, a lot of entertainment. Come on down. Are open for three days and the invitation is open. We're really happy, have two very special guests here as we wrap up today. We have Matt Schulz. He's the CEO of Conga. Matt, great to see you. >> Great to be here. >> And with him as Ryan Westwood, the CEO and co founder of Simplus. Ryan great to see you. >> Thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. So first off, Matt great event. You said you guys did this last year. >> Yep. >> Super way to get the community together, your customers together, your people together. Big investment. >> It's a big investment, but it's you know celebration of our customers and we have the most amazing loyal customers that I've ever seen. So we like to get together at least once a year. So this is not only our dream for celebration, but this is our Conga Connect user group here as well. >> Right. >> So now we're excited. >> So, It's interesting, right. We do a ton of shows and everybody wants to get customers on we loved to have customers on. Their hard to get on, either because they can't speak or it's your strategic advantage or, the whole bunch of reasons. I think we've only done about six or seven eight interviews here today and we had three customers on. So you know nice testament to what you guys are doing. >> Yeah. >> And Ryan. Tell us about Simplus. We've been hearing about Congo all day. Tell us about-- >> (laughs) Exactly, exactly. >> Thank you for the opportunity. Simplus started out as a Salesforce partner specifically to SteelBrick. So SteelBrick was an independent software vendor like like Conga, that was built on Salesforce and Salesforce acquired SteelBrick a few years ago. And we started out implementing SteelBrick and then when they were acquired by Salesforce, we took an investment from Salesforce and really have scaled alongside of Salesforce CPQ. But we kind of saw the emergence of CLM like we did CPQ, where we felt like this is this is the future. There is a big opportunity. There's a lot of wide space. And so when we met with Conga and the team, we were just even more excited. We knew that the technology in the market had a big opportunity, but then to have the experience of Matt and Bob and his team combined. We were excited to partner and go to market with Conga, just like we did with SteelBrick. So we've really made our brand on being kind of ahead of the market and, and really seeing what's happening and implementing the technologies that are the cutting edge of the Salesforce ecosystem. >> Yeah, and a big ecosystem it is, with the 170,000 people. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> And Matt you've got this crew together. We've heard time and time again today, a lot of people that have worked with you in the past. So you've got a pretty good formula, pretty good team of folks, that you've executed with. What about the importance of that, where, you know you've got trusted lieutenants, people you've kind of done this before with to be able to bring together coalesce relatively new team to take this thing to the next level. >> Yeah, we were talking a little bit off the air that you Ryan runs a services company. So everyone believes that the people business. Right? And then they meet me, I get it in social situations, what do you do? I'm CEO of a software company. They're like, oh, wow, it'd be great to have a technology like that. I'm like, wait a second, it's a people business. We don't have, I tell our employees that every time we get together, we don't have a factory that stamping out widgets. Like this is a people business. It's an interconnect with people business, actually. So I tell people, marketing sneezes, and, sales catches a cold, >> Right. >> We are all just completely joined at the hip. So for me to have the honor of working with people, second, third, fourth time and some of these companies, it's pretty incredible, very blessed, and it doesn't hurt that they're really good at what they do. >> Yeah, well, absolutely. And Ryan, you've got an interesting take too. Your, your kind of a leadership study, or you like to interview people. You've written lot of blog posts. So what is it about, kind of the leadership study that helps keep you going. Makes you tick. >> I think, I think as an entrepreneur, you realize over time how much you don't know. And it's amazing to surround yourself with other entrepreneurs or CEOs that have experienced things you haven't. And so through those platforms, Wall Street Journal, or Forbes, the writing I've done has been amazing for education. So I think I've interviewed 60 plus tech CEOs. public, private, all kinds of different different sizes of companies and I have learned so much. It's been a it's a really fun journey. The time I've spent with Matt and Bob and some entrepreneurs are CEOs like, like they are, there's just so much to learn. So I I've enjoyed sharing my journey with other people and writing about it, through the Forbes platform for the last four or five years. >> Such a great such a great lesson. I'm reading I pulled it up. I'm reading Sapiens right now. I don't know if you've read that book. Great book by Yuval Harari. Just come out with a new called the 21st Century. He's a historian, greatest historian. And he talks about one of the big changes to go to a scientific based world was when people decided they didn't know everything, and embrace the fact that we didn't know everything. And let's ask questions. Why does the sun come up over there? Why does the moon, and where before it was, kind of a deity from on high and everything is fine. And we'll just keep it though. So I think it's a really, smart, smart strategy to say; I love to learn from the people. So what I love about this job and get to talk to smart guys like you. Let's talk about kind about kind where Conga is going. You've got all these connected parts, talk to a bunch of people, you've got brought in through acquisitions, and you've got this thread that seems to weed through all the applications, workflow leaves to the applications. You got document creation, that ties back to managing your contracts. Interesting, how those things tie together. And now AI. You're going to have this kind of AI infusion. As we talked to people all the time, no one can go buy a pocket of AI. what I want is AI infuse, in all the applications that I interface to make them work better. So that's what's coming down. You got to be excited about that. >> Oh. it's incredible. I mean, the opportunity in front of us is amazing. This is the third company. I'm old, this is the third company I've been CEO of in the electronic documents space. So I've been in this space for 20 years now. And to see where we've come in 20 years. It's inspiring. It's amazing. If you look at just the sheer numbers and size of market. Congo really started in my mind, in our mind, and our team's mind back when we were all at DocuSign. As you know, I was CEO of DocuSign. Joined the company in January 2007. And we really put the team back together. They've built the early days of that company. But we had a vision back then around digital document transformation, and it included electronic signing, but electronic signing was a small part of that. And so we've been working really hard as you mentioned, building products. We've made some key acquisitions, and we built out the first digital document transformation suite in the industry. It's all the way from collaborating, creating documents to managing those documents and negotiating them to full contract Lifecycle Management with electronic signing a state of the art orchestration layer to build those productively for customers with a AI platform Conga AI supporting the entire platform. This product groups like a dream come true for us. It's 20 years in the making. And we're so excited. We've now released with the market. Companies growing like crazy. We've been named the fastest growing ISV in the entire Salesforce ecosystem. We have the highest volume downloaded app in the entire app exchange. And we've been rated the top from a customer satisfaction standpoint, the number one ISV in the entire Salesforce ecosystem. So either a blind squirrel found a nut or we were onto something there. this is a hot market. Customers like what we're doing. We're just going to keep growing and doing more. Yeah. >> And we heard the announcement earlier today about that Salesforce, actually integrating some of your product functionality directly into some of their offerings. Which is a great validation. >> Pretty excited and proud of that. Salesforce does not, I mean, with very few exceptions, like count them on three fingers kind of exceptions that I know of ever resells anyone else's product. Let alone resell it with their co branding. And so Salesforce announced here at dream force that they're reselling Conga's products now. Conga core generation is being co branded with Salesforce in Seoul along with invoice generation. I'm stumbling over the words because it's stunning that it's been a few years in the making, but we have a really strong relationship with Salesforce. We publicly announced they're an investor in the company, we're one of their top global ISV partners. So it was it was in some regards, a very natural thing for them to say, if we're going to build our document generation around our strongest partner. >> Right. Well, it's always good to hook your wagon to a rocket ship. And as evidenced by the very large building just outside these doors. >> Yeah. >> I think you picked a good one. >> Amazing I mean we are an amazing company, so my time with them dates back to when I was CEO DocuSign. So we did when I was there we did the first ISV deal of its kind with Salesforce. This was in 2009, and then brought them in as an equity investor in the company. So I've always Salesforce have been and always near and dear to my heart and a really amazing partner. This is my I think my 10th or 11th dream force. And so I'm all in. Like, well, the company's all in this is we're all all on the Salesforce bandwagon definitely. >> It looks like the bet's paying off. So congratulations to you and the team. >> Thanks, thanks. We got a lot of work to do, but it's going well. >> All right. Well thanks for taking a few minute. Ryan, Matt, and again, congratulations on a really great event. I think that things are turning people away the door. It's like, two people out two people in. (laughs) And thanks for having us. >> Like I said, it's nice to throw a party and have somebody show up. >> Absolutely. Thank you. >> Thanks for your time. >> All right. He's Matt, he's Ryan I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. Where it's at Conga Connect West, at Salesforce dream force in San Francisco. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> From San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Conga Connect West 2018. Brought to you by Conga. >> Welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here at theCUBE. We're at the Conga Connect West event at the Thirsty Bear. It's Salesforce Dreamforce downtown San Francisco. Marc Benioff, he said it, 171,000 people. I don't know where they all fit. Please don't bring your car, but we're here, Thirsty Bear is a place to hang. There's no lines at the bar, no lines at the food, this a the place to be. So we're happy to be here. Have our next guest from Conga. We've got Sawyer Martin, he's the Director of Product Management from Conga. >> Sayer Martin. >> Sayer, I'm sorry. Sayer good to see you. Also Mason White, the Director of Product Strategy. Mason great to see you. >> Nice to meet you Jeff. >> Absolutely. So Sayer, you came in on an acquisition we're looking at almost exactly six months ago. >> That's right. >> Orchestrate. So what is Orchestrate, and how's it been so far? >> Yeah, it's been really good. So Orchestrate started as really a wealth management tool for process orchestration, so inside of Salesforce. So managing end to end processes for wealth management firms inside of Salesforce. That's the combination of human and automated work that are happening, tasks being generated-- >> So I was going to say, what type of tasks and stuff? What is it? >> So tasks to tell someone, so a tasks in Salesforce is essentially an instruction to have someone do something. >> Right, but I'm curious because you said very specifically it was for financial management. >> Yeah, so financial management, there's moving money, generating investment policies statements for clients, all kinds of different things that you might do, review meetings for clients. >> And how did you pick that vertical to get started? >> Well we came out up, so the company was actually spun out of a wealth management firm, and that wealth management firm was on Salesforce, couldn't find a way to automate their business basically. Wanted to take those processes that they were living everyday or that were in someone's head and put it down in a system that they could then use to train people as they grew. And so it was born out of that wealth management firm, and knowing that industry we thought, as a small company, let's establish a beachhead in that market and then move elsewhere. The tool's built generically so it applies to any industry really, but we knew that industry the best. So that we focused there. >> So did you spin out of, oh no you were, you spin out of the wealth management company or did those people who founded it left and figured if these guys need it there's probably few more that do as well. >> Yep, so it was the former. Spun out of the wealth management firm, and then took it as this independent entity, not doing wealth management at all, but doing technology exclusively. >> Right, and doing process flow and task management and those types of things. >> That's right. >> Alright, so Mason how does this fit in your portfolio strategy? >> That's a great question, and actually Sayer and I met at Dreamforce '17 last year. In terms of Orchestrate what we've done is really, certainly we are keeping the existing customer base, but we're bringing that type of work flow capability into other areas of Conga. So as you look at the Conga suite of products, that work flow and approval processes is really something that is vital for things like contract life cycle management. Who needs to be involved in reviewing and approving a contract depends greatly on the size of the contract, the level of complexity, the types of changes that are being asked for. So we're in the process of bringing Orchestrate capabilities into various of our product lines. First one we're showing to customers is how we've brought it into Conga contracts through Salesforce, and we'll be bringing it into other elements really through a suite type of play. We're calling it a platform internally, and as we mature that it will become available to other members of The Conga Product Suite. >> Right, so you guys have this interesting collection of products that I assume all started as silos, but they've all got this kind of interplay between the process flow, with the contracts, the document creation, the contract kind of management, they're all very very, you know, kind of different tranches of the same tree. >> Yeah very much so. In fact I'd throw in our recent acquisition of Counselytics with the artificial intelligence and machine learning capabilities related to contract analysis. There's a fairly consistent thesis in a lot of our recent, whether it's been product launches or product acquisitions around building out capabilities related to contract life cycle management. It's not the only place where those things come into play, but it's certainly the one that is exciting people as we go to market. >> Right, right, so Sayer you've been with him for six months now, how's been the absorption? >> It's been really good. We didn't fully understand when we were acquired that, sort of what the plan was, and we didn't get a lot of direction when we first came aboard, but we knew that contract life cycle management is a powerful piece of the business. It's a growing piece and it's one that's is increasingly important to customers. And so we looked at that from a process perspective, and we've really been focused on finding the gaps there and taking what was as you said, a silo, going from the contract management piece, generating the documents, doing the negotiations, and ultimately signing the documents, and tying it all together with the process engine we'd already built. >> Right, so is Orchestrate's go to market today still as a single product, or are you just getting completely embedded in the other ones? >> I think to Mason's point it becomes obvious to use more than one Conga product. When you buy one at least one other one will make sense for you, and Orchestrate included. >> Right, because Orchestrate is kind of like AI And I'm sure where and how you guys are going to apply AI in all these various applications. And I don't want to buy a bucket of AI, I want all of my applications to work better, work faster, auto-fill, auto-select, you know, take more and more of those manual steps out of the process. >> That's right, augment the human mind in many ways. Right? Come in at those points in the process where it can add value or give you insights that you wouldn't have otherwise had. >> Right, right. So Mason I'm just curious from a product strategy point of view, you've guys have made a lot of acquisitions, got some new money in the war chest, and you know, a really solid team of senior execs that have worked together a lot. The band is back together is a big theme that I've seen all day today. So when you are looking at kind of buy versus build decisions what are some of the things you're thinking about as you kind of continue to build out this suite of kind of cross-functional capability? >> We're always looking at things whether in buy, build, or license. So there are things that as we're looking at them right now, and I'm not going to mention them, the decision is between buy, build, or license in certain types of capabilities. Really depends on what's the maturity of the technology out there, is it something that we need that others have right now and they've got strong, could be a strong OEM business model, or could be something that is a rapidly growing area that we need to get in on. Own it and tune it for our needs specifically. >> Right, well great story and I'm sure you're going to see that Orchestrate stuff all over the place. >> That's what we hope! >> That's what we're working towards. >> Alright, so Sayer, Mason, thanks for taking a few minutes to tell your story, and inviting us here to Conga Connect West. >> Great, thanks Jeff. >> It's nice to talk to you Jeff, thanks. >> Oh my pleasure. Alright, you're watching theCUBE, like I said we're at Conga Connect West at Salesforce Dreamforce. Thanks for watching, see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Conga Connect West 2018 brought to you by Conga. >> Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are at the Thirsty Bear at Salesforce Dreamforce, 170,000 people, we're in a small side of it put on by Conga, it's called Conga Connect West, think they had 3000 people last year. if you can see behind us the Thirsty Bear is packed to the gills, they're here for three days with free food, free drink, theCUBE and some entertainment. But as you know, we like to get the smartest people we can, get the knowledge from them and we're really excited to have a super smart person from 451, she's Sheryl Kingstone, the VP of Research for Customer Experience and Commerce at 451 Sheryl, great to see you. >> Nice to see you, too and thanks for inviting me. >> Oh absolutely, so you've been coming to this thing you said for a number of years. Every time I come to Dreamforce, it's like oh my goodness, how can it get any bigger? >> So, I can think back to the year 2000 when I did roadshows with Salesforce and we couldn't even get 40 people in the room. >> Oh my goodness. >> And now we have what, 170,000? >> That was kind of the dark, the dark and... >> That was when we were convincing people >> The dark days. >> That SaaS was the way to go and everyone was like wait, what? >> Right. >> Saas? >> When ASP was not Average Selling Price >> Oh god. >> But Application Service Provider. >> Absolutely, absolutely. >> Very good. So let's jump into it. So now it's 2018, time flies. Digital transformation is all the rage and I know you do a lot of work on digital transformation. So where do people get started, what is digital transformation? >> Yeah, yeah >> So how do you help people kind of, you know, I got to do it, the boss wants me to do it, my competitors are doing it. >> Yeah >> Where do they go? >> And here's the thing, you could say digital transformation has been pretty much evolving for two decades, it really is leveraging software. But what's really changed is digital transformation is more than just an IT strategy, right? So digital transformation is a business strategy. It's a culture, it's understanding how to leverage these new, more modern technologies so that we're reducing customer friction points, or empowering employees, or helping our partners sell more. So it's really more of an overarching strategy instead of independent, I'm going to go out and get software A versus software B. >> Right, and there's so many components of it, in not only the technology piece, but as we always see at shows, also the people and the process. The technology by itself is just another tool. >> Yeah, and we've been also talking in decades about people, process and technology, and one of the things I've said for a long time is what's missing in that, is the overlying or underlying data element of it. And that's another thing that's changed, is what are we doing to harness the power of the data that we get through these digital transformation processes that were undertaken? >> Right. >> And data's absolutely critical. >> But data by itself's just data, right? And to turn it in for information you got to have context. >> Yeah. >> You got to have the right data to the right person at the right time make the right decision. >> Yeah, but I've said all along, it's not about he who holds the right data, most data, it's really who has the right data. >> Right. >> So absolutely. >> Right. So as you look at some of the significant kind of glacial shifts in terms of infrastructure, in terms of CPU, in speed of CPUs compared again to 2000, you know, compared to the data that we have, the storage economics, and obviously Cloud. Now, finally, it seems like we're getting to the tipping point, where you've got enough horsepower, you've got enough storage, you Compute, and networking that you can start to implement some of these things that were just a pipe dream when you couldn't get 40 people, >> Yeah, well, >> In a room. >> So Compute has definitely changed and it's one of the things that's changed with respect to machine learning. The storage, because if you really think about intelligence, it's all about making sure you have all of that data. So yes, absolutely, that's changed. But one of the things that we really have to understand, and at 451 we just launched a lot of research around Foresight, right, and it's so about, hindsight is 20/20 and Foresight is 451, right? So it is all about looking more forward. >> Right, right. >> And one of the things that we talk about is just that. What are we doing with invisible infrastructure? Because no one really cares about what the infrastructure it is today, it's what's the intelligence that's coming out of it? So our four themes are around invisible infrastructure, pervasive intelligence, contextual experiences and then the ability to deal with the risk. So those four themes come together to create Foresight, and we actually launched that this week at our own conference, HCTS. >> I used to joke, we used to operate on a sample of historic data, right? Take a little bit of something that already happened. As opposed to now, you actually have the opportunity to get all the data and you have the opportunity to get it in real-time and have that feed your decision making processes. >> Well, what's really changed is we're no longer working from just operational data, we're bringing a lot more of that behavioral data that has to be streamed in real-time, and that's the architectural changes that have shift. >> Right. >> And the other thing you have to do with the infrastructure changes, if you're really making a decision, you have to make that decision on the edge. (announcements in background) >> So I think Marc Benioff is going to start speaking. >> Yeah, that's what we're going to have to adjust, to cut this off. >> So Sheryl, it's great to catch up and we'll see you next time. >> Not a problem, thank you. >> Marc Benioff's coming on. Thanks for watching theCube. (announcements in background) (upbeat music)

>> Live from San Francisco, it's the Cube covering Conga, Connect West 2018 Brought to you by Conga. >> Hey, welcome back everybody Jeff Frick with the Cube, we're at Salesforce Dreamforce in downtown, San Francisco, 170,000 people. As I said before please take public transit, take a scooter, take a bird, but do not get on the roads. We're excited to be here. We have our first guest from Salesforce. We're so excited. It's Greg Gsell, he's the VP of Product Marketing, Salesforce CPQ and billing. Greg, great to see you. >> Really happy to be here. >> Along with him is Ken Cavallon the EDP of Conga. Great to see you. >> Nice to meet you as well, thanks for having us here. >> Oh, for sure. So first off, Greg, you've been with, said almost your 13th anniversary with Salesforce. >> That's correct, my 13th, been with the company for 12 years. First band I saw was Train and there was about 5000 people at the conference. >> I was going to say, I want to get your perspective. There was 5000 people at the conference. >> Yeah, maybe a little bit more than that, but it was right around there, so it was much smaller. We only had one of the Moscone buildings. We were still growing as fast as we could back then. >> Did they bring this cruise ship in this year? I can't remember. I remember Lynn Vojvodich brought the cruise ship in a couple of years ago for a room. >> The dream boat has not come back. It made one appearance and I have not been back for the conference yet. >> Okay, so a lot of stuff going on, obviously you guys work very close together, but today some big product announcements, over the last couple of days, what if you can kind of run through those for us? >> Yeah, it's been super exciting. So we've been working with Conga for a long time. They've been a great Salesforce partner since 2006, I think. Now we just announced a brand new product Conga quote generation for Salesforce CPQ and Conga invoice generation for Salesforce billing, which is a purpose filled application that allows our CPQ and billing customers to build pixel perfect quotes using Conga right inside a Salesforce CPQ. It's a great product announcement. >> So you've integrated the Conga functionality into the Salesforce application around that specific >> Exactly right. >> Application. >> Exactly right. >> So why did you go that way? Why didn't you just build it yourself? >> We do configure pricing quotes, you're generating a quote and a quote's not good unless it gets signed by a customer. So generating the documents is such an integral part of that process. Conga's one of the leaders so we decided to make this partnership to bring it all together. >> That's great. So Ken, you got to be pretty excited. You got to like that, huh? >> I'm extremely excited about this opportunity, I've been working with Salesforce for the last ten years, in many other capacities as a partner on the outside looking in. This has been an amazing experience, having Salesforce bring a partner to the inside saying help us solve these customers' problems. I mean Salesforce is all about customer success and helping customers be more successful. It was phenomenal to see an ecosystem owner like Salesforce realize that they could use a partner to actually drive more success for their customers. As the leader in document generation, on the Salesforce platform, we help make those pixel perfect format-friendly documents out of the customer's data in Salesforce applying their rules and their templates to their format, the way they want it. The CPQ team, the CPQ and billing team came to us and said as the best in doc gen we want you guys to produce the quotes that come out of our quoting system. The Salesforce CPQ system is amazing. We're also a customer. We use the technology, not just the Salesforce platform, but Salesforce CPQ as well. We know what it's like to actually need to satisfy a customer in getting that sale through the funnel faster. Being able to tie these two technologies together and allow the Salesforce themselves to take this to the customer, they now have one point of contact where they can get all of CPQ in the way they want it. >> It's really interesting as people think about the generation, kind of the mechanics of working through the configuration and all the options, that's a really simple thing to generate a document that somebody can actually sign. Pretty important step that a lot of people don't tie the whole bow back together. >> That's right, that's right. >> So now we've got the best of breed in both solutions coming together and being able to take to market by the Salesforce team. I actually am not really familiar with another opportunity where there's been a partner that can actually support Salesforce in that way. Generally Salesforce takes Salesforce products to market and then to have the us take to market on their price book and in their quotes to their customers is a great privilege. We treat it that way, working with Greg and his team on the product marketing side, with Dan and his team on the technology side, to build a new product on Lightning, as a Lightning component to take it to market. Great experience. >> So Greg, I'm just curious, that's a super development, you've been working on the CPQ and the billing for a while. What are some of the things on your road map, what are some of the priorities that you got as you look forward? >> Sure, on CPQ and billing we just launched billing about three weeks ago, so billing completes the last mile of the sales cycle, so it's where we've really been focused. Billing allows all of our customers to generate invoices to collect payment, to automate their renewals, it really transforms a new business model. Still enabling our customers to take advantage of the subscription based or recurring revenue based business model that we hear so much about in our consumer life. We're really bringing those business models into new companies and enabling them to launch new products. That's where our head's at, we've been really focused on billing, we're really excited to bring that to market here at Dreamforce. >> So I wonder if you can unpack some of the complexity around subscriptions and some of these new kind of business relationships between vendors and customers. Because it's not just the I buy it, get an invoice, and we can finish the transaction, but there's all these new variances. The subscription thing is huge and a growing piece of the economy. >> Subscriptions are nothing new, right, newspaper subscriptions have been around for hundreds of years. So it's not a new concept, but taking that and applying it in a B to B setting is actually is really new because it gets really complex. The devil is in the details here. A traditional back end systems, your ERP, were built to quote a widget, sell a widget, and bill for a widget, then you collect your money and you move on. It's not that recurring relationship. With billing, it was subscription based products and recurring relationships, now midway through that contract, you could upgrade, you could swap out a product, you could renew early. There's so many different variations that you could do and you actually have to go in and amend that contract. In the past, all of our customers had their contract, it's a piece of paper with an actual signature on it, long before Conga Sign, that sat in someone's folder, in a drawer in the basement. It's very, very difficult to actually go back in and amend that contract in your ERP system. So we see lots of challenges with scale, manual processes, manually updating data, that physically prevented companies from moving into this subscription model. But now with Salesforce billing, bill right on the Salesforce platform, we are able to unlock that, enable all these new dramatic changes. >> Then we talked earlier, Ken, with some other people from Conga about the contract management piece of that too that's got to dovetail in with the billing and everything else because the T's and C's depending on what you buy, how much you buy, and when you buy could be very, very different, right? >> It can govern the next sell. As Greg was talking about transforming that configure pricing quote process to modernize business, to allow for these new business models, Conga wraps around Salesforce CPQ and billing to help digially transform the sales business process. Better presentations, built out of data that are customized to a specific customer engagement, better proposals that can lead to the quoting process so that you can make sure that the customer really knows what they're buying and then is able to get a quote. Better set of reports that come afterwards to show that consumption and visualize for the customer and help them understand what to buy next. Then Conga invoice generation for Salesforce billing generates that actual invoice document for them. This entire sales business process digitally transformation journey, a lot of customers are in that journey today and they just really don't know how to do it and they can unlock the power of Salesforce and all that technology they've got with the custom master records so they can move that throughout the entire sales process. That's what Conga's here to do and we're here to do in partnership with Salesforce CPQ and billing. >> Just curious, how much of the push to these types of development to the application are driven by the customer request like hey, we want to do some of these new things, can you please put it in, or is it more, hey, now you have this, classic chicken and egg, now you can start to explore some of these transformative ways of doing business? What do you kind of see in the field, is it more of we want it, or here you have it, now we can do it? >> Different customers are at different points in their journey in that digital transformation. This is the fourth industrial revolution where we're going from where we were in the past of that transactional business where it starts and stops and you have to restart it again to a constant flow of business that they have with their customers. Depending upon where they are in that journey, depends on whether or not they're pulling us along, saying I've got to innovate further, or we have to go explore with them what's possible, the art of possible. I have to give Marc and the Salesforce team a lot of credit. Salesforce over the last 20 years has done such an amazing job at helping business figure out how to unlock that potential that they've got, and this platform has allowed Conga to thrive. Conga was born on the AppExchange a little more than 10 years ago, we've grown with the AppExchange ever since and as you can see from this great event we've got going on here today, we're able to solve a lot of customers' problems. To answer your question directly, it's where they are in that journey depends on whether or not they need a little push, or they're going to pull us. >> Right, so Greg, a little shifting gears. I'm just curious from a product marketing, product development point of view, when you operate with such a robust ecosystem and you're making decisions as to what do we buy, what do we partner, what do we integrate, of the 100,000 plus whatever people here, a whole lot of them are partners. It's a super robust ecosystem, so as you look at that, how do you prioritize or you kind of looking for partners for new things or you looking for them to fill holes, how do you fit that portfolio into what you're trying to build natively in the product? >> Sure I mean it always just comes back to customer success. We listen to our customers and we see what is available out there and we look to partners like Conga and the rest of the three, four thousand plus applications, I think on the AppExchange to make sure that we're filling all of our customers' needs. It's always about what is going to help our customers be the most successful in the fourth industrial revolution like Ken was saying. >> Ken, Greg, congrats on the announcement, on the integration. I'm sure it will have tremendous success for both of you. >> Thank you very much. >> He's Ken, he's Greg, I'm Jeff, you're watching the Cube. We're at Conga Connect West at Dreamforce at the Thirsty Bear, come on down, free food, free drink, and free I think entertainment. Thanks for watching.

>> From San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Conga Connect West 2018, brought to you by Conga. >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in downtown San Francisco at Salesforce Dreamforce, they're saying it's 170,000 people. Take public transit, do not bring your car, do not take Uber, grab a line, grab a BART, whatever you need. So we're excited to have a practitioner. We love to get customers on, we love to talk to people that are out here actually using all these tools, and our next guest, we're excited to have Becky Bastien. She's a senior force.com developer for BD, which is Becton Dicksinson-- >> Dickinson. >> Becky, welcome. >> Thank you. >> So, what type of products do you work on? >> So, I mean primarily we're a Salesforce.com platform, right? And we have a lot of add-ons with Conga, DocuSign, you name it, we're doing it. Apttus CLM, and we also use Oracle CPQ. Anything that connects to the Salesforce.com platform, you can imagine we probably use it. >> And you've been developing on Salesforce for a number of years, looking at your LinkedIn history, so you've got a lot of experience with the platform. Just a little bit of perspective, how this conference has changed, how Salesforce is a platform from just a pure play kind of Salesforce management system, which is what it started at CRM, to what kind of it is today? >> Yeah, I mean the conference has changed astronomically obviously over the years. What you said, it was 170 thousand, right? It's crazy. >> That's crazy. >> Logistically, it's a little tough to get around but it's so much fun and there's so much that you can learn here. It's just increased over the years. The content has gotten better, there's more focused areas, which I really like. I'm a developer at heart so I really focus on that. But as far as the platform itself, it's really grown. You can do anything with it. At BD, we even have done things that are completely custom, like our entire implementation team for one of our business units runs out of Salesforce.com as a project management application. We don't just use it for sales, right? >> Right. >> Or marketing, even. We use it across the board for implementation and now we're getting into the service aspect as well. >> Right, we're here at the Conga event and we talked before we turned the cameras on, you're using the Conga tool set in kind of a unique and slightly different way than some of the applications we've heard. I wonder if you could share some of the applications that you use and how you use them? >> Sure, so one of our primary uses of Conga is actually generating documents that are customer facing, that really educate our clients, our end clients and then also helps us with some of the data that we're gathering for our product development. But what we do is we go out to the client's site and we're actually sometimes in an operating room, or at a catheter injection or a blood draw, multiple things that we actually gather data on via another application called Fulcrum. We pull all that data back into Salesforce and then we use Conga to generate the documents that are customer facing. With that, it really empowers our business as well because they have full control over that Conga document, so they can make the changes that they need to, without involving IT, and we just kind of hook it all up in the back end for them. >> Right, right. It's really a new kind of world in terms of the opportunity to go gather data on your products, whether it's connected via an application or different things, as opposed to back in the old day, you made it, you shipped it, you sent it out through your distributor and you had no idea how end users are using it, how the doctors are using it in this case. >> Yeah. >> But now, you've got this opportunity to do more of a closed loop feedback, back into the product development. >> Yeah and it's not only a product development, but we're actually educating the hospitals on, are you using the product to what we actually manufactured it for? Are you using it for something entirely different? Are you using it the wrong way? It's actually an education tool back to our end customer and saying, "Hey, this is where you can improve "operating procedures," basically. >> Another hot topic that we hear about all the time, we go to all these conferences, is bots. You talked about, you guys are doing something interesting with bots, again, leveraging the Conga application probably not necessarily the way that's it's, I didn't see Bots on their product sheet. >> Yeah. >> Tell us a little bit about that application? >> Yeah, We have a bot where our sales reps can basically enter some information into an Excel spreadsheet. It's for a quick quote for a customer, and the bot will crawl that spreadsheet and feed it back into SAP. What we've found is that our sales reps are having a hard time getting the right customer number, getting the right contact information and things like that, where the Bot would fail if they didn't have the right information. What we've done with Conga is we generate that Excel spreadsheet from Salesforce.com so the sales rep is on an opportunity, and they generate the bot, they generate the spreadsheet, they fill out the rest of the information and then it gets sent along its way and it creates the order and SAP eventually. It's really cutting out some human error. >> Right, so does the Bot fill in the missing data? Or it just flags that you've got some incomplete stuff you have to fill in? >> Yeah so, we're passing it as much as we can for the rep. They're having to manually enter some things like what product, what quantity, and things like that, and then the bot crawls it and throws it into SAP. It's just an easier way for a rep when they're sitting out on-site with a client. They can actually put it in an Excel spreadsheet, which they love. >> Right. Of course we're trying to get 'em away from Excel spreadsheets anyway, but let's go ahead and automate some of it for them so it cuts out that error. >> It's a really interesting story because it's often a battle to get the sales people to work in Salesforce. >> Yeah. >> As opposed to report in Salesforce. >> Right. >> You're really kind of bridging that gap, letting 'em work in Excel, which isn't necessarily their preferred solution but if that's what they're doing and then integrating that back into the automated system. >> It's hard to change that behavior, for sure. >> Yes it is. >> But yeah, by giving them the bot, we're actually making them go into Salesforce. It gets them more comfortable with it and a way to drive user adoption. >> Right and I'm sure you can see a future where AI is going to enable more and more automation of all the little bits and pieces of that process going forward. >> Yeah, absolutely. I think, too, what we talked about with gathering all that data, that's one of the things with Einstein that we're really interested in, especially at Dreamforce this year, is learning more about Einstein and what we can do on the platform with all the data that we have gathered. >> Right, right. The other thing you mentioned before we turn on the cameras, it's again, kind of a new technology, is voice. Obviously with the proliferation of Alexa and Google Home and OK Siri, and all these things, voice is going to be an increasingly important way that people interact with applications. As you look forward, down the road, what are some of the opportunities you see there, where you can start to integrate more potential voice control into the applications? >> I think it kind of goes back to our sales reps, again. Where they're on on-site. If they can talk into their phone really quickly and say, "Update this opportunity amount." I mean, that's great. It gets them, again, into Salesforce, it's going to drive that user adoption. I saw a session on it earlier today and I thought it was pretty cool. I think they'll be excited about that. We're also implementing field service for Lightning. We have our actual texts that get dispatched out on-site, so I can really see them using that on the mobile experience as well. >> The dispatch is going out through Lightning and then the management of the service call is also happening inside of Lightning? >> Yeah, we're implementing Service Cloud right now. The next phase will be implementing field service for Lightning. We're now dispatching out of SAP, but we're looking to move it entirely to Salesforce. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Okay, if Marc Benioff came in and sat down, there was a guy that looked just like his brother here earlier, what would you ask him? What kind of magic wand you've been developing in this thing for a number of years, would you say, Marc, love it, love it, but could you just give me a little of this and and a little of that? >> I'd say, show me the road map and no safe harbor, tell me it's actually going to happen. No, I think mobile is where we're always really trying to figure out where Salesforce is going, and I think they've really improved. But I offline capability is something that has struggled with Salesforce. We have to rely on other apps that write back into Salesforce. >> Right. >> It'd be nice to eliminate those other offline applications and just use Salesforce.com for that offline power train. Because a lot of times we're at the hospital, and there's no wifi, there's no connection. >> Right, right. >> So we have to have that offline capability. >> Still kind of the soft underbelly of cloud-based things but 5G is coming, we were just at the AT&T show and we'll have 5G 10x the speed, 100x the speed. >> Bring it on, yeah. >> So good stuff. Alright, Becky, thanks for taking a few minutes. >> Absolutely. >> And keep coding away. >> Thank you. >> Alright. >> She's Becky, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. We're at the Conga Connect West at Salesforce Dreamforce at the Thirsty Bear, downtown San Francisco, come on by. (upbeat techno music)

>> From San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Conga Connect West 2018. Brought to you by Conga. >> Hey, welcome back. Get ready, Jeff Frick with theCUBE. We're in downtown San Francisco. It's Salesforce, Dreamforce. They're telling me it's 170,000 people which I find hard to believe but I'm not out there walking around in the traffic or stuck in an Uber. Hopefully you aren't either. We're excited, we're at the Conga Connect West of it. Here at the Thirsty Bear, they're giving out free drinks, free entertainment, free food. Stop on by, just a couple steps over from Moscone South and they'll be here for all three days. So we're excited to be here, too. First Salesforce, we've got some great guests lined up for you today. Talk about the whole life cycle of this cash-to-quote, or quote-to-cash, excuse me. To Sharmon Moss first, she is the Practice Lead at ATG for CLM. Sharmon, great to see you. >> It's great to be with you, Jeff. >> Absolutely, and with her is Bob Grewal. He is VP of Enterprise Contract Sales for Conga. Bob, great to see you. >> You as well. Glad that we are here. >> So, what an event. Just before we jump into it, you guys said you did this last year, you had such a great turnout, you had kind of up the investment. >> Yeah, so last year, we did a phenomenal amount of events, we wanted to provide our customers opportunity to come in and have a place where they can meet with us, socialize, meet our technical folks but at the same time, enjoy themselves and find a place to relax and work. We do a disco party, a silent disco party last year, that was phenomenal and over-subscribed so this year we ended up having to put a tent in the back and maybe even a bigger investment so our people and partners can come in here and have a great place work, meet and greet, and learn. >> Great. So Sharmon here, she is a Practice Lead out in the field with all the customers. >> It's true. >> So we talk a lot, we go to a lot of tech events at theCUBE and we always talk about people processing tech. And more often than not, the tech is the easiest part. >> It's true. >> To really make this stuff work, so give us kind of what you see in the field, kind of the state of the market in contract management. >> So what we're seeing at ATG, we are a technology management consulting firm and what we've seen recently is, you know, we had the whole optimization of CPQ over the last four or five years and right now, we're really seeing the digitalization of contract management really take a front place in what companies are trying to automate. And that's why we're so excited to work with the team at Conga because our synergies and the way we work together and our cultures are so similar that we're really able to provide just a great compliment to our customers. >> So when you say automating contract management, the first thing the probably goes into most people's heads, at least the first time I heard it, was no way, there's so much nuance, there's so much you know, legalese and maybe negotiated terms and settlements in a contract. How do you possibly automate that beyond, which is state-of-the-art ten years ago, where is it and when is it due? So what are some of the things that people, you know, what can you do today, what does the future hold, what is the state-of-the-art in contract management? >> Well, I think you nailed it on both points. So it's not just about the technology and us as the technology provider would probably argue it's not the easiest part of the solution. But I think it's the combination and the reason why ATG partnership with Conga makes so much sense for us, is that, to capture the digital transformation, or the contract automation value, we really got to do two things. One, you got to get the right technology which Conga provides today. And then you got to have the partner to work with you where we've partnered with ATG to really look at your business processes and as you do that, this is a great opportunity to review how you're doing it today, optimize that, because it's not just about going digital with it, it's really about making sure that we have the right approval process. And then you say, what's possible today? Well, today, CLM has been around for a long time, right, and we think that it's hit a tipping point where it's not just about creating workflows and approval processes. In fact, in many cases, those are table stakes. We seem to do it better, we've designed it so it's easier to use, easier to manage, but the piece that we're seeing as really a focus on the datasite. How do we make that data that lives in those contracts valuable to the organization? So when you're engaging with your customers, now you have a better engagement strategy based on real data, what's changes, what being utilized in your contract. So for us, a big part of it is that we can do the workloads, we can do the approval processes, but where we're really going to differentiate ourselves is that data and making sure that we can make that work, to optimize revenue, to mitigate risk but most importantly, to be able to understand what's happening in the contract world, what you're negotiating so we can make your engagements in the future easier and faster. >> Right, right. So just curious, Sharmon, because you negotiate the contract, you go through all the pain, you know, and you finally get it signed but then generally it would just go in a drawer, or somebody's hard drive on a laptop and let's just hope they're working for us in a year from now, we didn't give them the laptop. But how does that get baked A, into making sure, there was an example earlier, that the right payment terms get into the ERP system and then also, going forward, how does that not just become a stale document that's just sitting in a repository but how do we extract the value to your point to get more benefit from that tough negotiated piece of paper that we worked so hard on. >> Right, and I think that's where we're seeing the change now. Because, historically, it was our legal teams that wanted to automate things, to make their lives simpler, and now we're seeing we need not just to support the legal teams with this information, we need to support reporting, we need to support renewals, we need to support amendments and we need those data elements that are associated. So like you said, the payment terms or the length of the term of a specific service, we needed to datatize that, put that in a system where people can search for it, discover it. So many cases, even like companies with MNA, do due diligence based on this content, right? It can't just be a piece of paper in a box somewhere anymore. It needs to be out there and that's what the future of contract management offers. We are, at this point, in the emergence of this technology where customers are starting to realize the value in that digitalization. >> Go ahead. >> If that helps. >> I was just going to say that the other thing is happening too, is the nature of business relationships is changing so much with new revenue models, right. Subscription models, you know, and kind of prorated and how do you work in your discount structure. It's so much more complicated and so much variety in the ways people are engaging with their customers. I would imagine most of the time that just kind of happens in that contract is still in that guy's laptop that we don't know where it is and we just kind of execute those things. So how is that getting surfaced and kind of bait back so that it's more of a closed loop process? >> Yeah, so a couple of things and we can talk about the processes as Sharmon walking us through kind of hey, we can automate this, we can do this. There's a couple of things in the technology side that Conga's really done and when we think about that, one is a True-up. So when we built this on the Salesforce platform, one of the things that we really did was how do we take what's been in that contract, so simple thing like the terms for payment change from 30 days to 45. Well today or traditionally, people would go and have to update that manually. Well we created a technology called True-up where you're able identify all those key factors, these key data points, and automatically have that update within your Salesforce instance. A challenge for one of our customers is renewals, right? Often we have standard policies of we're going to have to notice customers 60 days in advance of their renewal. Well sometimes we have to negotiate that and sometimes it's 90 days or six months. We've made that really easy when those terms change, we have the ability to true those up and that actually will be reflected in Salesforce automatically. So without any human intervention, outside of approving the term that you've accepted it, it automatically uploads into Salesforce. >> So Truing-up, just to repeat what you said to make sure I understand, so it's basically taking a negotiated terms and the contract and making sure it's getting into the system of records, system of engagement. >> Exactly. >> So it's implemented. >> Yup. >> It's true and another factor within the integration of the Salesforce, is that you can make some of that negotiation happen upfront. So, if you're using CPQ solution for instance, you may negotiate the quote before it even gets to the contract and that can limit the amount of Truing-up we even have to do at the end. >> Right, right. >> And that's the other piece is that one of the things we've done is when it comes to just a cash to quote, we've built a product specifically designed for the cash-to-quote. We call it Conga Contracts Negotiator Edition. And what that really is designed of is, for those customers that have quotes that are going out, that are getting quantities in negotiated, maybe a price propose change, maybe a different terms that are already listed on that quote, we've provided a technology that basically can support that so when the customer comes back with those changes, it also can be Trued-up with Salesforce without having to go in and go back and rework the quote and redo all those quantities. We've made that sync in that True-up capability available even for that quote thing. So very complimentary to the CPQ practice that ATG has today. >> Right. Just curious, Sharmon, from some of your experience with customers. What is the hardest thing that people think is going to be easy and then what's the low-hanging fruit that people go "oh my goodness, this is phenomenal," that maybe is not that hard but the value delivery is consistently over the top for people that are kind of in this journey? >> The thing that I think companies often struggle to do implement into their vision here, is that when you are buying a piece of technology to solve a problem, is that, that piece of technology on its own is not going to solve your problem. You have to take a look at the processes that you use and figure out how to optimize those along with the tools, these awesome tools, that you get with the technology and not pave your cart path. So don't keep doing the same things you've been doing for 20 years and just make them automated. Take advantage of this tool that you have. I think what people underestimate how easy it is, is all the things that they have available to them with this automation. The approval process that can be automated. I don't have to email four people and get their responses back to say "yeah, those changes are OK". That I can build that approval process, that I can build in the acceptance of changes to clauses. My legal department can say "I'll accept this as governing law or that as governing law" and give my salespeople the opportunity to do that without involving legal. And people often don't understand how easy that can be. >> Right. Fewer emails? That's got to be an easy case. >> Yeah, I wish it was just that simple but absolutely right, we're eliminating everything that lives outside of it and getting control. I mean, I couldn't agree more. Customers sometimes think the technology is going to solve the problem and it's really not just the technology when it comes to CLM. It's about the technology and the process and I think with the processes we've done and the practices we've developed, that's really helping customers get greater at adoption, greater rate of ROI, really optimize that so that they're getting a higher value. And time to evaluate what the process we use when they're looking at CLM. >> It's almost a waste of money if you don't go the extra mile for the people in the process, to really take advantage of the investment. Well Bob, Sharmon, thanks for taking a few minutes of your day and Bob, specifically, congrats on this great event and thank you for having us. >> Yeah, thank you for joining us as well and thank you for the time. >> Thank you. >> All right, he's Bob, she's Sharmon, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. We're at Conga Connect West at the Thirsty Bear at Dreamforce, San Francisco. Thanks for watching.

>> From San Francisco, it's The Cube Covering Conga Connect West 2018. Brought to you by Conga. Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with The Cube. We are at Salesforce Dreamforce, they say a hundred and seventy thousand people have descended into downtown San Francisco, it's absolutely bananas. We found a little respite, a little oasis if you will. Couple doors down to the Thirsty Bear's, the Conga Connect West event, come on down they've rented out The Thirsty Bear for three days of, I just was told, free food, free drink and a lot of entertainment, also a lot of great Conga people as well, and The Cube's here, so come on by. We're excited to have, for our next segment, people that are really getting close to the customer because at the end of the day, it's really about the customer. So we've got Natasha Reid, she is the senior product management for Conga, good to see you. And also Justin Mongroo, the VP of sales excellence from Conga, also great to see you. >> Thanks. Before we get in I got to ask you, Justin, that is a great title, VP of sales excellence. I mean there really, it says something about what you think is important which is being good at selling, not a used car sales approach at all. How did you come up with that title and what does that personify for your team? >> Yeah, well I didn't come up the title but I think for us, Conga, what it means, sales excellence is about selling with integrity, our product provides real benefits to customers and so unlike a lot of products where they can't talk about the full set, sales excellence to us is being able really let the product shine and identify how it's going to help the businesses we work with. >> Right, and Natasha that's what I hear you spend a lot of your time with customers on. You know, you're product management, but you're using a lot of customer input to drive what you prioritize how you're kind of setting out your road map, what you're working on. >> Yes, absolutely. So, from a customer perspective, we really pride ourselves on customer interviews. There's really nothing that helps you understand what customers are doing and using with your products than watching them firsthand in their own environment, and it really just provides invaluable feedback to help drive where we take our products in the future. >> It's funny, we did the Intuit Quickbooks Connect show a couple years ago, we had Scott Cook on, and he used to talk about it at Intuit, they would just go, like you said, and sit and watch people engage with the application, not even surveys but actually see how users use it and it's interesting even if you watch someone else just use Excel, we all use it in a very different way, so that must be incredibly valuable feedback. >> Yes, I mean you really see the good parts of the application, you see the parts that maybe need improvement as well, but it's feedback that you really can't gather in any way except watching somebody. >> Right, I think it also is the philosophy that's very very different than kind of looking at the competitors all the time, if you listen to Andy Jassy or Jeff Bezos at Amazon who are just kicking tail and taking names, they're maniacally focused on what the customer wants. They don't really look at the competition, they don't really talk about the competition, they're always looking at that customer. What do they need, what do they need next, and you guys continuing to evolve your product line to kind of continue to go down that path. >> Well, and the reality is is the customer defines the product in a lot of cases, right? What better way to understand your market than to talk to the people who are already working with you and finding out what they want to buy next? >> Right, right. So you guys have some exciting announcements here at Salesforce this year, Salesforce is now integrating some of the Conga functionality inside of some of their core applications if you could give us a little bit more color on that. >> Sure, so we just launched Conga invoice generation for Salesforce billing, and Conga quote generation for Salesforce CPQ. So, these two products are taking the power of the flagship document generation product Conga Composer, and we're leveraging that functionality for very purpose-specific built document generation with Salesforce CPQ and Salesforce billing. >> That's pretty awesome. >> Yes, that is pretty awesome. >> So why did pick you guys? What were some of the feature sets, or working with Conga that helped Salesforce come to this decision? >> Sure, so Conga Composer, well known for best in class document generation, pixel perfect documents, so when you need to get your formatting just right, when you need very sharp, clean lines, et cetera, leveraging things like the ability to provide more information or merge more product line items into your documents, as well as supporting the formats that people want, things like Word and PDF. >> Yeah, and I would say in addition to the functionality, Salesforce also is able to trust just by seeing our customer experience through our net promoter score and our reviews online knowing that they could partner with us and that we would take care of our joint customers they way they want them to be. >> That's a pretty significant move by them to adopt your guys' technology as part of the core within some of their offerings >> It is, it's not something that Salesforce does often, so we're very proud and we're very grateful that they looked to us to help provide these solutions. I think another component of this is just ease of use. So very easy to install, Lightning-ready, very forward thinking in that capacity. >> Yeah, the Lightning thing is interesting, you get used to the old, "Who moved my cheese?" I was the old school front end on Salesforce and they finally made me jump over to Lightning, but I'm sure that opened up all types of new opportunities for you to deliver new functionality in that. >> It does, and I'll empathize with that sentiment. I think change is always hard, right? People always struggle a little bit when they're used to doing something one way and Lightning is a very different look and feel from Salesforce Classic. I will say though that once you move to Lightning, Salesforce has done a really great job of, Lightning is more than just a CRM, It helps you do your job better. It makes suggestions, they put a lot of work into UI, user interface and user experience, you don't have to think about how to do your job better, it actually just helps you do your job better. >> Right. >> So being able to build and develop on the Lightning framework is actually a tremendous benefit. >> It has been, and in the last piece you guys are sitting on a bunch of different pieces in this document life cycle, if you will. You don't call it that, but you're into the contracts, you're into the document generation, you're into the life cycle management, so all these things too, I imagine now are coming together in a more kind of synchronized, cohesive way. >> Well I mean it's really if you think about the customer's story they need a generated document to communicate with their customers before they are a customer, and then they need to do a quote to show them how much it's going to cost, and they may or may not need to negotiate that and then they need to sign it, and every business has this sort of interaction with their customers, from, "Here's what we do." to "Do you like it "enough to buy it from us?" To, "Here's how we make it legally binding". I mean that's business, and Conga has met our customers along every stage of that journey that they go through in making a customer a customer, and doing that in a visually stimulating, professional way. >> So, fun fact about Conga Sign, our e-signature product we launched in February of this year. E-signature was the #1 feature request, or problem to solve that the conga customer base has provided in the last couple of years. So, everybody wanted e-signature. We listened, we heard, and we built you e-signature. >> So how long did it take you to get it out, from the time you decided, okay we'll go ahead? >> Well, as the original product manager I can actually answer that very specifically. So, we started building in July of last year and we launched on February thirteenth of this year. >> So, less than a year? >> Yes. >> Definitely less than a year. >> Okay, great. And just final thoughts on this event? Dreamforce, obviously a huge event for you guys, big investment in this Thirsty Bear celebration at Connect West. What do you hope to get out of this week, what are you excited to see from both the Salesforce folks across the street, as well as this kind of gathering with all your customers? >> You know, for me I hope to learn. I want to learn what our customers are interested in, I want to learn what our reps are seeing in the market as they walk around, and what other businesses are doing, and then learn from the ecosystem and what tools are available that we can use ourselves to better help our customer which is our employees. >> My favorite part of Dreamforce is actually the Conga booth at the Moscone main hall. So we actually get lots of our customers who come to find us, who come to find specific people. They'll come and ask for, "Hey, this support person "helped us", and they'll actually identify that person by name, or "Hey, this professional "service person helped us, can I meet them? "Are they here?" And it's just incredibly gratifying, like it's very difficult to describe. You have literally hundreds of people coming to find you to just say, "Thank you, we love your products, "it makes my life so much easier, "what else are you guys doing?" >> That's great, and it's always so gratifying to know that there's always someone on the other side that appreciates the work and it's always fun when you get some kind of an electronic relationship, to cement that with a face and a voice and a name and a handshake. Well, thanks again for stopping by and congratulations on the big announcement. >> [Natasha And Justin] Thank you. >> Alright, he's Justin, she's Natasha, I'm Jeff, you're watching The Cube. We're here at Conga Connect West at Salesforce at Thirsty bear, see you next time.

(exciting electronic music) >> From San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Conga Connect West 2018. Brought to you by Conga. >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in downtown San Francisco at the Thirsty Bear. We're at Dreamforce. I can't get an official number, I keep asking, but the number they're throwing around is 170,000 people, so if you're coming, do not bring your car. It will take you four days to get here from AT&T and I think the Giants have a home game today, too, which just makes things even more interesting. But we're at a special side event, it's the Conga Connect West event here at the Thirsty Bear, three doors down from Moscone South, so we're excited to be here. It's our first time at Salesforce, and to kick things off, we've got Bob DeSantis, the chief operating officer of Conga, and with him, Jason Gabbard, the head of AI strategy. So gentlemen, welcome. >> Thank you. >> Good morning, great to be here with you. >> So what a cool event. You guys have this thing rented out for three days. >> Yep. You've got entertainment, you've got the silent disco. I think tomorrow night, some crazy bands. >> Yeah, we've got an open bar, food going all day and all night, actually we did this last year, and we were so crowded that this year we rented the parking lot behind and we built two circus tents so we actually extend all the way out to the next block. We have multiple sponsors here helping us to bring their customers and their partners in. So, open bar, open food, meeting rooms, demo stations, a place to come and relax and kick back a little bit from the chaos of those 170,000 people just a block away. >> It's just crazy, so come on down and meet the Conga crew and all the people, you have a good time. Let's jump into it. The topic at hand is AI. We are all the buzz about AI, AI, AI, machine learning, artificial intelligence, and what we hear time and time again is no one, I just need to go buy some AI. Really that's not the way the implementation is going to work, but where we see it in a great example I like to use a lot that people are familiar with is Gmail, those little tiny automated responses back to that email, there's actually a ton of AI behind those setting context and voice, and this that and the other. How are you guys leveraging AI in your solutions? You've been at this for a while. AI represents a great new opportunity. >> Yeah, it really is, Jason do you want to? >> Yeah, sure, you may not be aware, but Conga has actually been developing AI inside of the contract management system for a few years now, and I came over to Conga in connection with the acquisition of a company I founded focused on AI, and so obviously, things are getting a lot more interesting, technology is getting a lot more robust. You know, I think you made a great analogy to Gmail. Inside of the Conga CLM, Conga Contracts, you'll actually see that we're starting to make suggestions around contracts, so you may load a document in and you might see a popup over in the margin that says, "Hey, is this a limitation of liability clause?" So that's one example of AI working in the background of CLM. >> Well, I was going to say, what are some of the things you look for? I had a friend years ago, he had a contract management company, and I was like, "How?" And this was before OCR, and it was not good. "How? How are you doing this?" He goes, "No, if we just tell them where's the document and when does it expire, huge value there." He sold the company, he made a ton of money. But obviously, time has moved along. A lot of different opportunities now, so what are some of the things you do in contract lifecycle management? >> Think of that example as phase one of contract lifecycle management. Just get all my contracts into a common repository, give me some key metadata, like what's the value, who are the counterparties, and what's the expiration date? That's huge. So, ten years ago, 15 years ago, that was the cutting edge of CLM, contract lifecycle management, now the evolution has continued, we're in what we think of as sort of the third phase of CLM. So now, how do we actually pull actionable data out of contracts? So having the contract, you mentioned OCR, having machine readable data in a repository is great, but what's actually in the contract? What did we negotiate six months ago that now could have an impact on our business if we knew it? If we could act on it? And so with Conga AI, and the machine learning technology that Jason's company developed, and that we've now embedded in our CLM products, we can unlock the data that's hidden in documents, and make it actionable for our customers. >> So one of the things that you used to trigger that action, because the other thing about contracts we always think about, right, is you negotiate them, it's a pain in the butt, you sign them, then you put them in the file cabinet, nobody thinks about it again. So in terms of making that more of a living document beyond it's just simply time to renew, what are some of the things that you look for using the AI? Are you flagging bad things, are you looking for good things, are you seeing deltas? What are you looking for? >> I'll give you a really concrete example. We recently had a customer that negotiated a payment term to their benefit with one of their suppliers, but that payment term was embedded in the document, and their payables team was paying on net 30 when their negotiators had negotiated net 90. That data was locked in the contract. With Conga AI, we can pull that data out, update the system of record, in that case, it would have been SAP, and now the payables team can take advantage of those hard fought wins in that contract negotiation. That's just one example. >> Yeah, so two obvious use cases we're seeing day in and day out right now, number one, I'll call an on ramp to the CLM, so that's likely a new customer or relatively new customer at Conga that says, "Hey, I have 50,000 contracts." I was on the phone this morning with this precise use case. "I have 50,000 contracts, really happy to be part of the Conga family, get my CLM up and running, but now I got to get those 50,000 contracts into the system, so how do we do that?" Well, there's one way to do that, get a bunch of people together and work for a couple years and we'll have it done. The other way is to use AI to accelerate some of that. Classic misconception is that the AI is going to do all of the work, that's just not the case. At Conga, we tend to take more of a human computer symbiosis sort of working side by side, and the AI can really do the first pass. You might be able to automate something like 75% of the fields, so you can take your reduced team of people then and get the rest of the information into the system and verified, but we may be able to cut that down from a couple years to 30, 60 days, something like that, so that's one obvious use case for the technology, and then I think the second is more of a stare and compare exercise. Historically, you would see companies come in and say, "If I'm going to sign an NDA, it's got to have the following ten features, and I'll never accept x, y, and z." So we can sort of key to that with our AI, and take the first pass of a document and really do the triage, and so again, while it may not be 100%, we'll get to 80-90% and say, "Here are the three or four areas where you need to let your knowledge workers focus." >> And are there some really discrete data points that you call out in a defined field for every single contract because there always are payment terms, I imagine, obviously dates and signatures, so some of those things that are pretty consistent across the board versus, I would imagine, all of the crazy, esoteric-y stuff, which is probably their corner cases that people focus too much on relative to the value that you can get across that entire pop, 50,000 contracts is a lot of contracts. >> I don't know what your view is, but for me, I think it's follow the money. Everyone always cares about dollars, when I'm getting my dollars, and the other is follow very high risk stuff. Like indemnities, limitations and liability, occasionally you're seeing people interested in change in control, what happens if I sell my company or take on a bunch of financing, does that trigger anything? >> What's interesting about contracts is there are hundreds if not thousands of different potential clauses that could live in a contract, but in general, sort of the 90-10 rule is that there's about 40 clauses that you find in most commercial agreements, most business to business, or even business to consumer commercial agreements, so with Conga Machine Learning, we train based on the sort of use cases that extend that for a specific domain. So for example, we've done a lot of work in commercial real estate, right? So those commercial real estate agreements have that core base, but then they have unique attributes that are unique to commercial real estate, so Conga Machine Learning, as part of the Conga AI suite, can be trained to learn so that we can reduce that cycle time. You know, when we go into our tenth commercial real estate use case, it's going to be a lot more efficient, a lot faster, and a lot higher initial hit than we start training it at the beginning. For us, it's about helping customers consume the documents that make sense for their business. And machine learning is intuitively about learning, so there is this process that has to take place, but it's amazing how quickly it can learn. You use the google example, I like to think of the Amazon.com suggestion service example. They literally know what I'm going to buy before I'm going to buy it. >> Right, right. >> That didn't just happen yesterday, they've been learning that from me for the last 20 years or 15 years. We're at sort of the beginning of that phase right now in terms of B to B CLM, but it's amazing how quickly it's moving, and how quickly it's having an impact on our customers businesses. >> Yeah, I was going to ask, so where are we on the lifecycle of the opportunity of using AI in these contracts beyond just the signature date and the renewal date for some of these things? And also I would imagine, you guys can tie some of that back into your document creation process >> That's right. >> So that you again remove a lot of anomalies, and get more of a standardized process >> Yeah, so Conga provides a full digital document transformation suite, and that includes, as you mentioned, document generation capabilities, contract management, Conga AI >> Signature, the whole thing, right? >> Conga sign. So we're not here yet, but imagine if through Conga AI, we're able to learn what type of clause structure actually has a higher close rate, or a faster cycle time, or a higher dollar value for a given book of business, so customer x is selling their products to consumers or other businesses, and if we can learn, we can, how their contracts streamline and improve their effectiveness, then we can feed that right back into the creation side of their business. So that's just over the horizon. >> And then the other thing, I would imagine, is that you can get the best practices both inter-department, inter-company, and then I don't know where the legal limits are in terms of using it anonymized and the best practice data to publish benchmarks and stuff, which we're seeing more and more because people want to know the benefits of using so many of these things. You know, what's next? And then do you see triggers? Will some day it will be a trigger mechanism or is it really more a kind of an audit and adjust going forward? >> From my perspective, I think the some day is more, we're extremely focused on the analytics and the kind of discovery of documents right now, but I think looking out over the one year horizon, it's less about triggers and more about more touchpoints in the work close, and so really optimizing the contracting process, so being able to walk into a company and say, "Hey, I know you would like for this to be in all your contracts, but as a matter of practice, it's not, so maybe we need to abandon that policy, and get to a signed document faster. So more of that type of exercise with AI, and also integrating with sibling systems and testing what you expected to happen in the document versus what actually happened. That may be vis-à-vis an integration with ERP or something like that. >> It's pretty amazing, because as we know, the stuff learns fast. >> It does. >> From watching that happen with the chess and the go and everything else, and you read some of the books about exponential curves, you'll get down that path probably faster than we think. >> Yes. >> Well, Bob, Jason, thanks for taking a few minutes, and again thanks for inviting us to this cool event, and everybody come on down, there's lots of free food and drinks. >> Come down to the Thirsty Bear. >> Thanks so much. >> Alright, he's Bob, he's Jason, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. We're at the Conga Connect West event at Dreamforce at the Thirsty Bear, come on down and see us. Thanks for watching. (energetic electronic music)