from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley Palo Alto California this is a cute conversation hi and welcome to the cube Studios for another cube conversation where we go in-depth with thought leaders driving innovation across the tech industry I'm your host Peter Burris if there's one thing we know about cloud it's that it's going to drive new data and a lot of it and that places a lot of load on storage technologies who have to be able to capture persist and ultimately deliver that data to new classes of applications in support of whatever the digital business is trying to do so how is the whole storage industry and the relationship between data and storage going to evolve I can't think of a better person to have that conversation with in stanley's a phos senior vice president product marketing infinite dad Stan welcome to the cube thank you for it's my pleasure to be here and I'm flattered with that introduction well hold on look you and I have known each other for a long time we have been walking into user presentations and you've been walking out until recently though you were generally regarded as the thought leader when it came to user side concerns about storage what is that problem that users are fundamentally focused on as they think about their data data management and storage requirements fundamental problems and this afflicts all classes of users whether in a financial institution at university government small business medium-sized businesses is that they're coping with the number of primal forces that don't change and the first is that the environment is becoming ever more competitive and with the environment being ever more competitive that means that they're always under budget constraints they're usually suffering from skill shortages especially now when we see so many new technologies and the realization that we can coax value out of the information that we capture and store creating new demands elsewhere within the IT organization so what we see historically is that uses understand that there you have an insatiable demand for capacity they have finite budgets they have limited skills and they realize that recovering from a loss of data integrity is a far more painful process than recovering from an application blowing up or a networking issue and they got to do it faster and they have to do it faster so what we see in some ways is in effect the perfect storm and this is part of the reason that we've seen a number of the technical evolutions that we've witnessed over the past decade or two decades or however long we'd like to admit we've been tracking this industry occurring and growing in importance what we've also seen is that many of the technologies that are useful in helping to deliver usable availability to the application are in some ways becoming more commoditized so when we look across these industries some of the things that we're looking for is cost efficiency we're looking at increasing levels of automation we're looking of increases in data mobility with the ultimate objective being of course to allow data to reside where it naturally belongs and we're trying to deliver these new capabilities at scale in infrastructures that were built with storage arrays that would design for a terabyte world instead of a petabyte world and it won't be too long before we start talking about exabytes as we're already seeing so to be able to satisfy new scale problems with traditional and well understood issues is there are three basic types of storage companies that are targeting this problem the first of the established storage companies the incumbents the incumbents and the incumbents I really don't envy them because they have to maintain backwards compatibility which limits their ability to innovate at the same time they're competing against privately held newer companies that aren't constrained by the need for backwards compatibility and therefore able to take better advantage of the technology improvements that we're seeing to live it and when I say technology improvements not just in hardware but also in terms of software also in terms of management and government and governing philosophies so beginning with the point that all companies large small have some basic problems that are similar what we then see is there are three types of storage companies addressing them one of the in established and common vendors the other and they've gotten a lot of press or the companies that realize that flash media very media that delivers one to two orders of magnitude improvements in terms of performance in terms of bandwidth in terms of environmental x' that they could create storage solutions that address real pain points within a data center within an organization but at a very high price point and then it was the third approach and this is the approach that infinite I chose to take and that is to define the customer problem to find the customer market and then create an architecture which is underpinned by brilliant software to solve these problems in a way that is both cost-effective and extensible and of course meeting all of the critical capabilities that users are looking for so we've got the situation where we've got the incumbents who have install bases and are trying to bring their customers forward but right I have to do so within the constraints of past technology choices we've got the new folks who are basically technology first and saying jump to a new innovation curve and we've got other companies that are trying to bring the best of the technology to the best of the customer reality and marry it and you're asserting that's what infinite at ease and then it's precisely what we've done so let's talk about why did you then come to infinite at what is it about infinite act that gets you excited well one of the things that got well your number of things that got me excited about it so the first is that when I look at this and I approach these things as an engineer who's steeped in aerospace and weapon systems design so you look at the problem you superimpose capabilities there and then you blow it up and then if well we do blow it up but we blow it up using economics we blow it up using superior post-sale support effectiveness we blow it up with a fundamentally different approach to how we give our install base access to new capabilities so we're established storage companies and to some extent media based storage companies of forcing upgrades to avoid architectural obsolescence that is to gain access to new features and functions that can improve their staff productivity or deliver new capabilities to support new applications and workloads we're not forcing a cadence of infrastructure refreshes to gain access to that so if you take a look at our history our past behavior we allow today we're allowing current software to run on n minus 2 generation hardware so that now when you're doing a refresh on your hardware you're doing a refresh on the hardware because you've outgrown it because it's so old that it's moved past its useful service life which hasn't happened to us yet because that's usually on the order of about eight years and sometimes longer if it's kept in a clean data center and we have a steady cadence of product announcements and we understood some underlying economics so whether I talk to banking institutions colleges manufacturing companies telcos service providers everybody's in general agreement that roughly two-thirds of the data that they have online and accessible is stale data meaning that it hasn't been accessed in 60 to 90 days and then when I take a look at industry forecasts in terms of dollar per terabyte pricing for HD DS for disk drives and I look at dollar per terabyte forecast for flash technologies there's an order of magnitude difference in meaning 10x and even if you want to be a pessimist call it only 5x what you see is that we have a built-in advantage for storing 60% of the data that's already up and spinning and there are those questions of whether or not the availability of flash is going to come under pressure over the next few years as because we're not expanding another fabs out there they're generating flash so let me come back right it's kind of core points out there so we have quality yeah the right now you guys are trying to bring the economics of HDD to the challenges are faster more reliable more scalable data delivery right so that you can think about not only persisting your data from transactional applications but also delivering that data to the new uses new requirements new applications new business needs so you've made you know infinite out has made some choices about how to bring technology together that are some somewhat that are unique first thing is the team that did this tell us a little bit about the team and then let's talk about some of those torches so one of the draws for me personally is that we have a development team that has had the unique possibly the unique experience of having done three not one not two but three clean sheet designs of storage arrays now if you believe that practice makes perfect and you're starting off with very bright people that experience before they designed a storage array when we look at the InfiniBand when we look at in Finnegan what we see is the benefit of three clean sheet designs and what does that design look like what is it how did you guys bring these different senses of technology together to improve the notion of it all right so what we looked at we looked at trends instead of being married to a technology or married to an architecture we were we define the users problem we understood that they have an insatiable need for data we can argue whether they're growing at fifteen percent 30 percent or 100 percent per year but data growth is insatiable stale data being a constant megive n' and of course now with digital business initiatives and moving the infrastructure to the edge where we could capture ever more data if anything the amount of stale data that was storing is likely to increase so we've all seen survey after survey that 80% of all the data created is unstructured data meaning we're collecting it we know that may be a value at some point but we're not quite sure when so this is not data that you want to store in the most expensive media that we know how to manufacture or sell right not happening so we have a built-in economic advantage for this at least 60% of the data that users want to keep online we understand that if you implement an archiving solution that archive data still has to be stored somewhere and for practical purposes that's either disk or tape and we're not here to talk about the fact that I can take tape and store in a bunker for years but if I want to recover something if I have to answer a problem I want it on disk so the economic gap the price Delta between an archive storage solution per se and our approach is much narrower because we're using a common technology and when Seagate or West and digital a Toshiba cell and HDD they're not asking you where you're putting it they're saying you want this capacity this rpm this mean time between face its this is how much it's going to cost so when we take a look at a lot of the innovation and go to market models what they really are or revenue protection schemes for the existing established vendors and for the emerging companies the difference is there are in the problems that they're solving am i creating a backup restore solution the backup and restore is always a high impact pain point am i creating a backup restore solution am i building a system for primary storage a my targeting virtualized environments my targeting VDI now our install base the bulk of our install base I'm not sure we actually we should share percentages but it's well north of 50 and if you take a look at some virtualized estimates probably 80% of workloads today are virtualized we understood that to satisfy this environment and to have a built-in advantage that's memorable after the marketing presentations are done in other words treating these things as black boxes so if we take a look at my high-level description of an infinite box array installed at a customer site consistent sub-millisecond response times and we're able to do that because we service over 80% of all iOS out of DRAM which is probably about four orders of magnitude faster than NAND flash and then we have a large read cache to increase our cache hit ratio even further and when I say large we're not talking about single digits of terabytes we're talking about 20 plus terabytes and that can grow as necessary so that when we're done we're achieving cache hit ratios that are typically in excess of 90% now if I'm servicing iOS out of cache do I really care what's on the back end the answer is no but what I do care about for certain analytics applications is I want lots of bandwidth and I want and if I have workloads with high right content I don't want to be spending a lot of time paying my raid right penalty so what we've done is to take the obvious solution and coalesce rights so that instead of doing partial stripe rights we're always doing full stripe rights so we have double bit protection on data stored on HD DS which means that the world is likely to come to an end before we lose this slight exaggeration I think we're expecting the world to come to an end in 14 billion years yeah yeah let's do so so if I'm wrong get back to me in a Bay and it's a little bit less than that but it doesn't matter yeah okay high on that all so we've got a so we've got a built in economic advantage we've got a built in performance advantage because when I'm servicing most iOS out of DRAM which is for does magnitude faster than NAND flash I've got a lot of room to do a lot of very clever things in terms of metadata and still be faster so and you got a team that's done it before and we've got a team that's done it before and experimented because remember this is a team that has experience with scale-up architectures as in symmetric s-- they have experience with scale-out architectures which is XIV which was very disruptive to the market well so was it symmetric spec and now of course we've got this third bite at the Apple with infinite at where they also understood that the rate of microprocessor performance improvement was going up a lot faster than than our ability to transfer data on and off of HD DS or SSDs so what they realized is that they could change the ratio they can have a much lower microprocessor or controller to back-end storage ratio and still be able to deliver this tremendous performance and now if you have fewer parts and you're not affecting the ID MTBF by driving more iOS through I've lowered my overall cost of goods so now I've got an advantage in back-end media I have a bag I have an advantage in terms of the number of controllers I need to deliver sub sillas eken response time I have an advantage in terms of delivering usable availability so I'm now in a position to be able to unashamedly compete on price unashamedly compete on performance unashamedly compete on a better post sale support experience because remember if there's less stuff they had a break we're taking less calls and because of the way we're organized our support generally goes to what other vendors might think of it's third level support because of a guided answer answers the phone from us doesn't solve the problem he's calling development so if you take a look at gotten apear insights we're off the scale in terms of having great reviews and when you have I think it's 99% I may be off by a percent ninety eight to a hundred percent of our customers saying they'd recommend our kit to their to their peers that's a pretty positive endorsement yeah so let me let me break in and and kind of wrap up a little bit let me make this quick observation because the other thing that you guys have done is you've demonstrated that you're not bound to a single technology so smart people with a great architecture that's capable of utilizing any technology to serve a customer problem at a price point that reflects the value of the problem that's being solved right and in fact we it's very insightful observation because when you recognize that we've built a multimedia integrated architecture that makes our that makes very easy for us to include storage class memory and because of the way we've done our drivers we're also going to be nvme over if ready when that starts to gain traction as well excellent Stanley Zappos senior vice president product management Infini debt thanks very much for being in the cube we'll have you back oh it's my pleasure there's been a blast and once again I want to thank you for joining us for another cube conversation on Peterborough's see you next time [Music]

you live from Miami Beach Florida 2019 brought to you by V we're back this is the cube the leader in live tech coverage we're here in Miami this is a wrap of v-mon 2019 two days of coverage I'm Dave Volante with my co-host Peterborough's our third year covering v-mon we started in New Orleans we've seen you know veeam go from what they called at this show act one to act two and we talked two years ago about you know to the our first V Mon about the ascendancy of Veeam being so tightly tied to the rise of virtualization and now we heard this year act to being cloud multi cloud and we heard a number of announcements that are in support of that we're going to talk about that but Peter there were three key announcements this week one was the the billion dollar you know milestone they actually you know they finally hit a billion dollars I've been talking about it for a while it's now official billion dollars on a trailing 12-month basis they're a profitable company veem and a focused billion dollar yeah I think that's really a very focused I mean they do some M&A but not a lot of M&A and that's because of NIH I mean you know these guys they trust themselves to write code it's also it's also sustained that simple value proposition right and that's a in a fundamental Dogma I think I think it's fair to say we we heard the announcement of the the the with Veeam a API infrastructure which which is key we're going to talk about that we I think there were two companies they announced partnerships with Nutanix with mine and exa grid both taking advantage of that there will be others can ring doll just told us you know maybe 10 to 12 it's not going to be an enormous number at least for secondary storage yeah but and but that'll knock down a large portion of the infrastructure market and then a Veeam availability Orchestrator version 2 which allows you to do if fast backups recover from from backups without having to go to a replicated you know off-site and some other capabilities they call the dynamic documentation and automating testing and some DevOps capabilities so you know the people seem pretty excited about that it wasn't a sea of announcements like you see it some of these things which I think Peter talks to the degree of focus that you were just mentioning you know they're not about your bragging rights and the number of announcements that they can make you know it's really all about extending that platform a lot of incremental announcements ratmir told us not a big roadmap company even though he did show a roadmap today but the roadmap he showed was a lot of near-term functional improvement so very function rich you know the the tagline of it just works but um let's see I think there's the first time you and I have done v-mon together I've been here your impressions look I love wandering the halls and talked into the actual attendees and seeing what they have to say so I spent about an hour hour and a half just doing some work in one of the hallways here and one of the reasons I do that is because it's an opportunity here with the attendees and the customers are talking about and what's important to them you've got a lot of these shows and everybody's buzzing about one or another product announcement you go here and everybody's talking about the problems that they're solving and I think that one of the reasons why we didn't have this frenzy of product announcements like we have in so many other places because the focus is though because a lot of companies want the focus to be on them I think what we heard here or what I heard here somewhat different was again customers trying to solve the problems and Veeam creating an opportunity for them to talk in terms of some of the new directions and some of the new products that being are being introduced but the focus stayed on the customer and the problems of trying to solve and that's that's what to my mind that's what successful companies focus on yeah and I come back to this notion of the with Veeam the whole API integration cloud hybrid cloud the edge V wants to be and they've laid they laid this vision out you know certainly last year and even started the year before of of essentially being that that that backup capability data protection capability across wherever your data lives you know on from in cloud now they really are focused on on backup and data protection they even say backups where it starts a lot of other companies like don't even use the term backup no it's not about backup it's about data management and data protection so it's interesting that veem is really focused on on backup and when you do what you did and talk to the customers what do you use the V for backup backup backup backup and so so they're not over rotating to that vision now they're many of their competitors are going hard after that and doing some great great marketing so the competitive dynamics are very interesting now you got cohesive e you got rubric doing really well with positioning as a modern architecture in veeam definitely not a legacy company their business is growing you've got you've got CommVault you've got Dell EMC Veritas IBM you know trying to hit single-digit growth trying not to decline I mean IBM in particular declined and then and really had to do a deal with CAD illogic to stop veem from eating its market share that's really what that deal was all about you saw Dell EMC kind of take its eye off the ball when it merged with with Dell EMC you know it was the leader in in purpose-built backup appliances it's made some announcements recently to try to get you know it's got some really good start back in the game right so you know you don't ever count those guys out Comicon vaults approached it differently they've got a large install base you know Veritas went through private equity and so they had some some other challenges but again they're investing and so it's a big market you know people are gonna go fight hard for it and then and then with with the outside funding that's come in it's really up the game now a lot of that funding is gonna go to promotion which again comes back to your point about focused R&D really really important to focus R&D on things that customers want that you're gonna solve a business problem so if you go back and just just to take your segmentation and we can kind of look at it in a couple of perhaps simple ways you've got you've got you've got veem and companies like beam who saw the hole virtualization and the need to do a better job of supporting and protecting and and replicating and backing up virtualized resources all hitting the market pretty hard and then you have the Delhi MCS and a lot of the other companies that you mentioned trying to sustain or keep pace with those guys and then you have the new guys the Dhruv is and what not are we talking about just cross cloud multi cloud backup on top of that you have and something we talked about with a couple of guests the security guys are looking at this and saying wait a minute you know data is data and protection and security are going to be increasingly difficult to separate because data is going to move and I have to be able to move security with the data it's going to be an inevitability it's we're talking about a cloud that allows us to more do more distribution of data because we're gonna do more distribution of work and the security is gonna have to move for the data so the security guys are gonna get in this the networking guys are gonna be asked some questions about the opportunity you got the old guard who is more focused on devices and managing and backing up devices trying to get back in you got the new guys you're saying let's let's lead the the the act to before you know the veins get there it's gonna be an extremely complex market but all of its gonna boil down to this simple fact I'm gonna distribute data in response to the work that needs to be performed and how am I going to manage the digital assets that I have to make that easy so that it doesn't explode and all of these companies at some point kind of the next phase of this is going to be on protecting data but can I turn it into a digital asset so here's what I saw I saw them talking about the idea of you know what we're gonna protect locally I'll suggest it over the course the next couple of years it's going to be we're gonna do you know data asset management with protection with where the actual act of protecting it is similar to the act of defining it as an asset so being able to you know use a a snapshot for a lot of different uses already happening now but adding services you know a consistent set of services on top of that through with veem and other resources allow them to do that and then move more of that what's today regarded as replication function into that protection side of things a lot more support for locally because that's where the services are going to become having the services are not having the services it's really going to be an essential question because we're gonna move more of this data out to where the work is going to be profound we often talk about customers having to place bets but but the the the vendors are having to place bets as well they're obviously betting on multi-cloud but but juxtapose for example what themes doing it was interesting to hear ken ring doll he answered your question about whether it was em through M&A and he answered in an M&A context but or maybe organic development around more security functions and he kind of said Never Say Never but really focused the team the engineering team is really focused on backup and data protection and what they call data management juxtapose that now with way say for instance what a daydream is doing X data domain guys built their own file system trying to bring both primary and secondary stores together yeah and which I like and I think it's really powerful themes taking a different approach they're saying and with with VM api's we're gonna partner with pure we're gonna partner with with Cisco we're gonna partner with Nutanix so different approach and they're gonna obviously you know claim the same capability hey we can do that too you know date tree I'm saying well we can do that too with just one mousetrap you know the integration points etc so it's gonna really be interesting to see how that all shakes out that that word seamless you know I said it sometimes triggers me if it really is seamless you know theme has a go to market advantage relative to you know the the Swiss Army knife approach if it's not seamless then you know ad atrium approach will have an event it's from a product standpoint you and I both know there's so much more to success than just having a great product absolutely you know and mentioned it but but here's you know it's interesting one of the thought about what will the roadmap the practical roadmap because FEMA's altered its roadmap in response to customer demand quite frankly very successfully and and and and you know you got to applaud him for doing so but one of the things we heard was it look we don't want we don't want to over promise on the engineering front because you've got a certain number of Engineers and a certain engineering capacity focus them on things that are creating value to the problems you're trying to solve the same things true within a lot of user shops you don't want to throw a whole bunch of new function to new requirements and a bunch of guys who are still themselves trying to evolve from backing up devices to now actually protecting data and and so there's a there's a natural evolution that's going to take place and I and I think veeam that's done a pretty good job of keeping their finger on what that pulse is it's it's what can be invented but also what can be innovated if we think of innovation as the customer adopting and applying it and betting it and changing their activities around it and I think themes done a pretty good job of navigating you know that what can customers really do right now not getting too far ahead so a lot of these guys that the natural tendency that you come from a product perspective and you say put more into the product and you know get the better check marks and you know have the better it's better statute is better factsheet and I think Veeam is taking a simpler approach almost an apple like approach is an enterprise sense and saying look give them what they can a candle give them what they can use give them what's going to generate value and as they master that give them a little bit more it reminds me of is you said Apple it reminds me of early EMC days when EMC brought out you know it's symmetric it was it would connect you know AIX solaris unisys obviously the IBM mainframe it had all the optionality all the connectivity and that's kind of what would be and then the features that it announced were really practical they clearly solved the problem now since then you know MCS evolved into the checkbox so we have more features than anybody that's what happens when you everybody wants right you have the customer base everybody wants and they say check we have that thin provisioning we have that too and you know we're gonna freeze the market that's the you know much more mature company in their defense it's also in response to an increasingly specialized and complex customer base they're trying to cover all the base and you know competitive guys eating that they're absolutely absolutely and the sales guys saying hey we need something and they've done a great job of doing that but but Veeam is very very focused on the optionality in four years they they wouldn't talk about bare metal and a couple of years ago would beam on the big thing was hey we said for years that were only virtualization well guess what now we do bare metal that was sort of the one the big announcement one year so they're they're very judicious about how they allocate their R&D you know capital and in you're seeing that you know translate into function that actually gets used actually give yeah I think it's a key point I think your analogy with EMC is actually really good Dave because if you go back thirty years when the EMC first started getting going what was the problem controllers on mainframes and mini-computers were getting incredibly complex it's you know the Daddy controllers and the amount of processing that was being put into that in the microcode was just overwhelming most people's ability to deal with it and so MC came along and said well if that's the problem can we fix it we put cash in that'll just make this whole system simpler and then they stayed true to that for a number of years and they turn into a beer mark and it's interesting I think it is a good analogy because what is the problem the problem is data's going to be more distributed it's going to be more central to a company's mission it's gonna be used by more functions and repurposed into more applications that have a greater diversity of RTO and RPO and as a consequence they're saying they seem to be saying we're going to do our best to pose much function to that protect side of things local as we possibly can so that people who aren't PhDs in computer science to perform a real business service by making all that stuff work and then will at the same time work very closely with third parties who can bring specialization of that secondary storage to bear as the specialization increases because it's going to increase and the other the other you know China MB a case study example that I would point to is the early days of Veritas when Jim when Jeremy Burton was running Merrick marketing it Veritas II sort of coined the language Jeremy calling the no hardware agenda a pure software a lot of function and they you know rose to a couple of billion dollar you know in revenue you know very very successful now have the big install base that everybody wants to eat it's just again reminiscent the pure software company they're not shipping boxes they're not shipping appliances they're they're not selling direct their pure channel play there's a big tamp to just continue to do virtualization like the big question is are they going to will their focus on what they're currently doing translate into focus on multi cloud and here at this conference they're claiming yes we've heard nothing that suggests that they won't be able to but there's a lot of new players out there who are looking at that space and saying you know what I can do that too and there's gonna be a lot of invention a lot of investment and you know there's good reasons to suspect it beans gonna be able to evolve successfully but there are a few areas where I think they're gonna have to focus more time in the big part of a CEOs job is Tam expansion and you know right now there are you know a billion out of fifteen let's call it so there's a long way to go but as you point out that multi-cloud appears like it's gonna be lucrative and there's a lot of different companies coming at it from from different angles you guys tell me we look at it is this big blob yeah this is gonna be incredibly specialized very fragmented I mean you got Cisco coming at it from a networking perspective RedHat coming from a past perspective Google you know partnering everybody Amazon right now ignoring it but you guarantee they're gonna be awesome and Microsoft has to be in it because of the huge estate of on-prem you know software and there's a dozen security guys are gonna be looking at this and saying oh look data in motion that's my service now is going to get its pieces so very interesting how that's all gonna shake out it's okay so wrap it up Peter you know kind of summarize your thoughts on the space v-mon so first beam on for me a lot of customers that we're talking about solving complex problems during their digital business transformation that's always good to hear got to a billion dollars that's a great milestone for any software company good reasons is the fact that beam is going to evolve into a company like Veritas like one of the big guys this is a company that's got legs and I think that the final one that I'd say not got legs but that they've got what it takes to be able to affect this transition they probably got the execution chops look we had a user on here who effectively said if you're not using if you're CIO and you're not using veem you're not competent and you know he said that that's not that's not a bad testimonial when you come down to it yeah and then the one thing that we have not talked about which is it shines through is culture yeah you know this company has a culture that is a winning culture it's a fun culture there's an accountability associated with it and and very customer orientation solutely up so that's the winning formulas have been fun sort of watching these guys grow and interacting with a number of their customers and you saw you saw a couple years ago Veeam saying okay we're going Enterprise so I ain't so easy there's just say we're going enterprise but in interestingly even though they've somewhat retrenched from that messaging they're having success in the enterprise clearly with their partnerships with guys like HPE at Cisco and NetApp and and others and so they're just gonna let it bake a little bit and go from there position of strength which is that you know kind of s in an MB do more simply with your protection environment is not a bad story a company of any size right right and okay Peter hey you spent great working with you thank you and thank you for watching guys great job awesome go to Silicon angle comm you'll see all the news the cube net is where we host all these videos and you'll see wiki bond comm has all the research Peter recently wrote a great piece on on data protection and how that markets involving check out our Twitter at the cube and at the cube 365 Twitter handles you'll see all kinds of clips coming out of this show and other shows let's see where we got a lot coming up good for you and what do you think so I think you're seeing as I said before a very practical approach to gaining foothold and in maintaining and growing in a market I like the business model this this company has been somewhat opaque you know european-based you know the Russian founders but and and most of us businesses outside of the US and and I think they're really coming into the mainstream now and Cube helps make it more transparent yeah absolutely and right because you can ask the questions of people and you know you get you get all kinds of different answers so and we're able to have you know independence on you know guys like Justin the firm's like the four five one guys that you know Gartner coming on and and it's fun to have those guys so so it's been great thank you for watching the cube go to the cube dotnet check out the events that are coming up we got a huge huge season May and June or our busiest months take a slight break in July although you know we'll be cranking this summer as well so thank you for watching everybody we're out Dave a lot day for Peterborough's we'll see you next time

live from Miami Beach Florida it's the queue covering beam on 2019 brought to you by V hello everyone welcome back to Miami this is the cubed a leader and live tech covers is day two of our coverage of v-mon 2019 at the Fontainebleau Hotel in sunny Miami Dave Volante with Peter Burroughs Trevor stars is here is the director of systems engineering for pure storage Trevor great to see you again yeah thanks for having me yeah well we've been following pure since the did the early days I remember interviewing Scott Dietzen it's a snw way back when and seeing the ascendency and the rise fewer hits escape velocity he goes public just been an awesome ride you guys have really kind of transformed the industry started out as you know the flash play but now really getting much deeper into sort of data and data strategies and data protection is one of those so we're here at v-mon what are your impressions so far this week the conference has been great a lot of great interactions theme has been an incredibly strong alliance partner for us the synergies are just incredible because you know as we've evolved as you mentioned from a singular product in all flash array and disrupting the market there back in the early 2010's evolving into more of a data platform company and data protections actually turned out to be a great business for us it's growing incredibly fast and you know like I said a lot of great synergies with beam so the systems engineering role has always been a critical part of the the sales process right this right the SC's is like I need an se you know and then you guys will go in help the sales team really understand what the customer needs you'll help solve problems but how was that roll it to find a pure and how was it evolving in the industry yeah absolutely and I think similar to our products in the early days we we hired a lot of folks who were storage specialists and and we've evolved into having to go far beyond that right into the different realms around things like AI machine learning data protection you know virtualization containers and so it it's definitely evolving it's challenge to us as a company and we're certainly trying to not maintain a status quo we want to continue to disrupt and do that in adjacent markets so how do you work with veem just in terms of taking your platform and their software and making a solution that's kind of simple for customers it's not you know stove-piped you know single throat to choke describe that whole process yeah yeah so we recently earlier this year maybe it was late last year we we developed some integration with beam to where we we actually integrate with their universal storage API so beam can control pure storage snapshots which you're which are probably familiar with pure snapshots on flash are incredibly powerful it's a it's a very powerful metadata engine in purity and which means we can take thousands of snapshots with no performance impact in their near instantaneous with veeam we can instantly integrate that into Veen backup and data protection workflows and vm can completely control pure storage snapshots both honoré and offer a which we'll talk about without having to have a storage administrator log into pure at all okay and so talk more about how the system plays with your customers I mean when you're when you're in with the customer and you're sort of scoping it out how is that conversation changing is just in terms of as you say you went from okay here's an array and flash now there's all the spectrum of other things that you're doing that's what's the data protection conversation like how does it relate to their digital transformation their digital business where do you guys fit there well operationally we've seen a huge trend from customers that a decade or so ago you saw the trend of going from disk to disk to tape tape for long term archive what we're actually here at the conference really promoting is this idea of the next big wave of evolution there which is we see customers going from flash to flash for the first step in backup and then instead of off-site tape going to the cloud so that's been an incredibly successful message for us early on and so that actually started with you know I mentioned the pure flash or a snapshot integration but actually moving those snapshots off of flash array to our second product which is flash blade flash blades a really unique product it was originally designed with the next big wave of innovation in mind around things like containers and deep learning where high amounts of bandwidth and parallelism are just absolutely critical billions of small files it just so happens that actually caters really well to backup performant and restore performance so backing up to disk was a big success for a lot of customers but what they're seeing now and what we're seeing as workloads continue to get more diverse is that there's a restore challenge so we have customers that are backing up to disk but they're seeing massive challenges around getting their data back and getting back online the recovery time objective pressures from the business are becoming more and more important this actually started for us in the SAS industry where one of the world's largest SAS providers out in Silicon Valley had to do an increasing amount of restore and they've they actually started using flash blade as what we call a rapid restore platform so they're able to nearly instantaneously restore these databases and what we found is nearly across the board and in all other industries that there's a large number of customers that have that challenge more so then we find you know going to market with flash played for like AI for example there's not as many people doing that quite yet we've been successful in the ones that are but across the board healthcare legal high-tech you name it it there's a restore problem and with flash played we've seen people go you know for example one of our really other customers outside of the SAS world is in the healthcare space the industry's number one cancer center in the in the world is actually leveraging it for rapid restore for databases but they're also doing some other neat things because flash blades not a purpose-built backup appliance it can be used for other things anything file an object works great so what you can do is you can combine the use cases and that's been really powerful from a TCO perspective you might say customers might say well you know flash is too expensive but if there's a restore problem that may not matter and then if you combine it with other use cases we call that our data hub story it's even more powerful in the TCO becomes you know really attractive so the healthcare using it for PACs and rapid restore you know there's other industries like you know my gaming industry like I mentioned high tech so that data hub message has been really powerful that's return on asset and asset leverage oh absolutely and and and one of the things I'd like to talk about Trevor is relating to that is there are a lot of ways of describing some of those fundamentals some of those really contingent and essential changes that are taking place in the industry today but one of them clearly is flash allows us to move from a data storage orientation of record and you know save the data to one of deliver the data to new applications pure has been at the vanguard of that and has seen a lot of these new use cases as we think about no return on data assets and whatnot how is your visibility into those new use cases changing Pure's perspective and pure customers perspective on data protection because it seems like the notion of data protection which has been around for a long time is starting to fray as these new use cases say it's not just protecting about what's happened it's setting me up for doing new types of work in the future so how is that how is pure seeing that how does that conversation about data protection changing because of some of the drive that purus got in them in the marketplace yeah and I think the first step is hey I can backup my data but if I can't use it it's kind of worthless right so being able to use that data and much much more rapidly but also repurposing that this idea of data silos has been around IT for years and with flash blade and that data hub story we're really breaking down those silos to be able to say hey the same the same platform that you're storing your data protection data as well as other data it's the same platform that I might be able to spin that data up so beams got a great story with data labs where you can actually spin up these virtual environments and run and on a purposeful backup device you know you it's it's questionable if that actually works right and having to pull that back over the network to another silo with Flash blade and the data hub it makes that realistic and and getting so much more out of the data delivering that back to the business and actually be able to deliver these key insights into what my data is actually doing and be able to make better business decisions as what the output you see kind of an analogy of a relationship between previous to now where storage was about persisting data and therefore was about protecting what has happened to flash being about delivering data to new applications and therefore there's some new concept our customers pushing you guys towards something that goes that's bigger than data protection I mean it's something that we're struggling with and one of the customers we have is struggling with how do I talk about what these services are when I'm spitting up kubernetes clusters like that that's right so is it is there some new conversation that you're starting to see you guys are one of the first to have a conversation about data you know flash data for AI are you starting to have conversations about you know deliver data something more than protection yeah near real-time ability to spin up development environments see ICD pipelines all of those things we actually have a product that as a pure customer you get as inclusive of maintenance contract called pure source service Orchestrator which can actually help provision end-to-end container environments and being able to repurpose that data for like I said test dev development pipelines and those kind of things and we're also as you've probably heard we're tying that into a cloud strategy as well so there's there's products we've announced cloud block storage side as well as object engine which is a product we haven't talked about yet which enables customers to truly see the benefit of a hybrid cloud scenario so they may be developing an application on Prem and pushing the cloud or vice versa and we're actually going to give them that back capability to do that talk more about object engines specifically what it is that means been inferring object yes store and object engine you know you hear the name it could mean a number of things but clearly it has to do with object storage so object engine was actually a technology that was born in the cloud so it was a cloud native application that was really designed around data reduction for cloud workloads what we've done as part of that product it folded into peers we've actually ironically it is not what we used it for first we'd developed an appliance and we call that our object engine appliance that's just phase one so what object engine delivers is a highly scalable highly performant data reduction platform we're starting with backup and data protection workloads so vemma obviously does their in-line data reduction technology if the customer finds that they need something more scalable they can actually leverage object engine to do that and then flash blade on the back end as the initial tier and then the future vision for object engine is that it's going to give you the cloud connectivity to be able to say okay I want to automatically push my backup workloads from an archive perspective out to the cloud we're starting in AWS we're gonna do Azure and others as well so the next big wave of that that you'll see is actually running object engine in the cloud in a hybrid scenario and be able to move those work clothes back and forth so kind of envision you know the the near-term backup and restore most of the resource happen within a week or two on Prem and then 100% also stored in the cloud for more long-term archives so that really it really completes the flash to flash the cloud story but we're not gonna stop with backup workloads either and where's your sort of value added in that equation and where's VM and how do you sort of what's the connection points there good question good question so I you know I think again I mentioned via obviously has their in line data reduction technology where we insert object engine is really one of two reasons one if if our data reduction offsets the cost of the whole solution without using it with just using beams data reduction because it is it's a hardware offload essentially and then the second one is if you need a you know a large amount of data that you want to push out to the cloud as our kind of phase two of that product right okay I want to ask you about the partnership from the terms from the standpoint of values sure the values of pure are you guys are fun company I love orange you go to pure accelerate everybody's wearing orange to come here everybody's wearing green so these seem to be kind of birds of a feather but but we just talked about value add what about the values of your company and sort of how you guys getting along yeah we're getting along great I like I said there's a lot of synergies from a solution standpoint but just from a go-to market standpoint trying to be you know a disruptive company it just technology disruptive solutions what is that next thing right not being a me-too player in the market and so I think we share a lot of those those same values but also customer success we really focus on the outcomes and a happiness of the customer and that that's down in the core of our engineering same thing with beam where I think we can really help each other is Veeam has a big push right now to move up market into the enterprise and we feel like we can help beam in that respect we've been very successful in enterprise and likewise veem obviously has a major presence in amia and that's a market that is is is growing for us substantially but we've got a lot of upside so we really think we can help each other there and I actually failed to mention the very first object engine flash Blade sale we did was with him so you know it was it was it was just natural in that perspective and I think pre object engine and before this whole idea of rapid restore really took off with flash blade it was it was just the flashier a protection and even that's still pretty new but now it's much more comprehensive so we've got common common competitors as well and pure accelerates coming up in September it's in Austin you're your hometown I'm town in Austin Texas so yeah we'll be there September 15th to 18th and we're going to be talking about a ton of stuff obviously flash to flash the cloud but well beyond storage as well so even if you know don't think of it as just a storage conference it's always fun event we've covered now I think twice this will be our third year so in Austin is a great great town and looking forward to that Trevor thanks so much for coming on the cube love that loved it thanks for having me feel very welcome all right keep it right to everybody we'll be back with our next guest right after this short break I'm Dave Volante with Peterborough's v-mon 28 2019 from Miami right back

>> Hi, I'm Peter Burroughs. And welcome to another cube conversation. This one is part of a very, very special digital community event sponsored by day trip. What we're going to be talking about today. Well, date comes here with a special product announcement that's intended to help customers do a better job of matching their technology needs with the speed and opportunities to use their data differently within their business. This is a problem that every single customer faces every single enterprise faces, and it's one that's become especially acute as those digital natives increasingly hunt down and take out some of those traditional businesses that are trying to better understand how to use their data. Now, as we have with all digital community events at the end of this one, we're gonna be running a crowd chat, so stay with us, will go through a couple of day trim and datum customer conversations, and then it'LL be your turn toe. Weigh in on what you think is important. Ask the questions of Data Room and others in the community that you think need to be addressed. Let's hear what you have to say about this increasingly special relationship between data technology and storage services. So without further ado, let's get it kicked off. Tim Page is the CEO of Datum. Tim, Welcome to the Cube. Thank you, Peter. So data give us a quick take on where you guys are. >> Yeah, Day tree ums formulated as a software to find converged infrastructure company that takes that converges to the next level. And the purpose of us is to give the user the same experience, whether you're working on Prem or across multi cloud. >> Great. So let's start by saying, that's the vision, but you've been talking a lot of customers. What's the problem that you keep hearing over and over that you're pointing towards? >> Yeah, it's funny. So it's so meet with the number CEOs over the years and specifically is related to a tree, and they'LL tell you they were on an on demand economy that expects instant outcomes, which means you have to digitally transform. And to do that, you've got to transform it, which means it's got to be easy. It's got to be consistent. You've got to get rid of a lot of the management issues, and it's got a feel and take advantage of the services that cloud has to offer. >> All right, so that's the nature of the problem. You've also done a fair amount of research looking into the specifics of what they're asking for. Give us some insight into what day terms discovering as you talk to customers about what the solutions are going to look like. >> It's interesting. So if you look at how to resolve that, you've got to conf urged to transform in some form or fashion. If you look at the first level of convergence a lot of people have done, it's been directly as relates the hardware architecture. We've taken that to a whole new level until Point were saying, How do you actually automate those mundane task that take multiple groups to solve specifically primary backup disaster recovery? All the policies involved in that is a lot of work that goes into that across multiple groups, and we set out to solve those issues, >> so there's still a need for performance. There's still the need for capacity to reduce management time and overhead etcetera. But Tim, as we move forward, how our customers responding this you're getting some sense of what percentage of them are going, Teo say Yeah, that's it >> s so interesting. So we could start a survey and got over five hundred people leaders to respond to it. It's interesting is they talk about performance management security, but they're also talking about consistency of that experience. And specifically, we asked how many of you is important to have your platform have built in backup and policy services with encryption built in et cetera. We got a seventy percent rate of those applicants of those those people interviewed saying is really important for that to be part of a plan. >> So it sounds like you're really talking about something Mohr than just a couple of products. You really talking about forcing customers or you're not forcing. Customers are starting the process of rethinking your data infrastructure, and I got that right. >> That's right. If you look at how infrastructure is grown in the last twenty years, right? Twenty years ago, san technology was related, and every time you throw open app, you had to put different policies that Apple put different one tight management to how much of my resources and go to certain things. We set out to actually automate that which is why it took us four years. To build this platform with a hundred programmers is, Well, how do we actually make you not think about how you're going to back up? How do you set a policy and no disaster recovery is going to run? And to do that, you've gotta have it one code base and we know we're on to something, even based on our survey, because the old array vendors are all buying Bolton's because they know users want an experience. But you can't have that experience with the ball time. You have to have it your fundamental platform. >> Well, let me let me step in here. So I've been around for a long time him and heard a lot of people talk about platforms. And if I have kind of one rule companies and introduce platforms that just expand, typically failed companies that bring an opinion and converge more things so it's simpler tend to be more successful. Which direction's date >> going? So we definitely That's why we took time, right? If you want to be an enterprise class company, you can't build a cheap platform in eighteen months and hit the market because were you, architect, you stay. So our purpose from the beginning was purposefully to spend four years building an enterprise clap platform that did away with a lot of the mundane task seeing management That's twenty years old. Technology right? One management. So if you're buying your multi cloud type technology experience in cages, you're just buying old stuff. We took an approach saying, We want that consistent approach that whether you're running your services on from or in any type of cloud, you could instantly take advantage of that, and it feels the same. That's a big task because you're looking to run the speed of storage with the resiliency of backup right, which is a whole different type of technology. Which is how our founders, who have built the first words in this went to the second, almost third version of that type of oven. Stan she ation of a platform. >> All right, so we know what the solution is going to look like. It's going to look like a data platform that's rethought to support the needs of data assets and introduces a set of converge services that really focus the value proposition to what the enterprise needs So what do you guys announcing? >> That's exactly right. So we've finalized what we call our auto matrix platform. So auto matrix in inherently In it we'LL have primary backup Disaster recovery D Our solution All the policies within that an encryption built in from the very beginning. Soto have those five things we believe toe actually have on the next generation experience across true multi cloud. You're not bolting on hardware technologies. You're bolting on software technologies that operate in the same manner. Those five things have to be an errand or you're a bolt on type company. >> So you're not building a platform out by acquisition. You build a platform out by architecture and development. >> That's right. And we took four years to do it with one hundred guys building this thing out. It's released, it's out and it's ready to go. So our first we're announcing is that first in Stan she ation of that as a product we're calling control shift, which is really a data mobility orchestrator. True sas based you could orchestrate from the prime from the cloud cloud to cloud, and our first generation of that is disaster recovery so truly to be able to set up your policies, check those policies and make sure you're going to have true disaster recovery with an Rto zero. It's a tough thing we've done it. >> That's upstanding. Great to hear Tim Page, CEO Data Room, talking about some of the announcement that were here more about in the second. Let's now turn our attention, Teo. A short video. Let's hear more about it. >> The bank is focused on small businesses and helping them achieve their success. We want to redesign the customer engagement in defining the bank of the future. This office is our first implementation of that concept, as you can see is a much more open floor plan design that increases the interaction between our lead bank associates and our clients with day tree and split provisioning. Oliver Data is now on the host, so we have seen eighty times lower application. Leighton. See, this gives our associates instant responses to their queries so they can answer client questions in real time. That time is always expensive in our business. In the past we had a forty eight hour recovery plan, but with the atrium we were able to far exceed that plan we've been able to recover systems in minutes now instead of backing at once per day with that backup time taking eighteen hours. Now we're doing full system snapshots our league, and we're replicating those offsite stay trim is the only vendor I know of that could provide this end to end encryption. So any cyber attacks that get into our system are neutralized with the data absolution. We don't have to have storage consultants anymore. We don't have to be stored. Experts were able to manage everything from a storage perceptive through the center, obviously spending less time and money on infrastructure. We continue to leverage new technologies to improve application performance and lower costs. We also want to animate RDR fail over. So we're looking forward to implementing daydreams. Product deloused orchestrate an automaton. RDR fell over process. >> It is always great to hear from a customer. Want to get on Peterborough's? This's a Cube conversation, part of a digital community event sponsored by Data Room. We were talking about how the relationship between the new digital business outcomes highly dependent upon data and the mismatch of technology to be able to support those new classes of outcomes is causing problems in so many different enterprises. So let's dig a little bit more deeply into someone. Tatum's announcements to try to find ways to close those gaps. We've got his already who's the CTO of data on with today, says all are welcome to the Cube, >> that being a good to see you again. >> So automate tricks give us a little bit more toe tail and how it's creating value for customers. >> So if you go to any data center today, you notice that for the amount of data they have their five different vendors and five different parts to manage the data. There is the primary storage. There is the backup on DH. There is the D R. And then there's mobility. And then there is the security or think about so this five different products, our kind of causing friction for you if you want to move, if you want to be in the undermanned economy and move fast in your business, these things are causing friction. You cannot move that fast. And so what we have done is that we took. We took a step back and built this automatics platform. It's provides this data services. We shall kind of quality that autonomous data services. The idea is that you don't have to really do much for it by converging all this functions into one simple platform that we let him with all the friction you need to manage all your data. And that's kind of what we call auto metrics that >> platform. So as a consequence, I gotta believe, Then your customers are discovering that not only is it simpler, easy to use perhaps a little bit less expertise required, but they also are more likely to be operationally successful with some of the core functions like D are that they have to work with. >> Yeah, So the other thing about these five five grandpre functions and products you need is that if you want to imagine a future, where you going, you know, leverage the cloud For a simple thing like the R, for example, the thing is that if you want to move this data to a different place with five different products, how does it move? Because, you know, all these five products must move together to some of the place. That's not how it's gonna operate for you. So by having these five different functions converge into one platform is that when the data moves between the other place, the functions move with it giving the same exist same exact, consistent view for your data. That's kind of what we were built. And on top of all the stuff is something we have this global data management applications to control the all the data you have your enterprise. >> So how are customers responding to this new architecture of autumn matrix converge services and a platform for building data applications? >> Yeah, so our customers consistently Teyla's one simple thing is that it's the most easiest platform there ever used in their entire enterprise life. So that's what we do aimed for simplicity for the customer experience. Autonomous data services give you exactly that experience. So as an example, last quarter we had about forty proof of concept sort in the field out of them, about thirty of adopted already, and we're waiting for the ten of the results to come out this quarter. So generally we found that a proof of concept don't come back because once you touch it, experience simplicity offered and how how do you get all this service is simple, then people don't tend to descend it back. They like to keep it and could have operated that way. >> So you mentioned earlier, and I kind of summarizing notion of applications, Data services, applications tell us a little bit about those and how they really toward a matrix. >> Right? So once you have data in multiple places, people have not up not a cloud. And we're going to also being all these different clouds and report that uniform experience you need this date. You need this global data management applications to extract value out off your data. And that's kind of the reason why we built some global data management applications. I SAS products, I think, install nothing to manage them. Then they sit outside and then they help you manage globally. All the data you have. >> So as a result, the I and O people, the destruction operations administrators, I can think of terms of automata whose platform the rest of the business could look at in terms of services and applications that through using and support, >> that's exactly right. So you get the single dashboard to manage all the data. You have an enterprise >> now I know you're introducing some of these applications today. Can you give us a little peek into? Yeah. >> Firstly, our automatics platform is a soft is available on prime as a software defined converge infrastructure, and you can get that we call it D V X. And then we also offer in the cloud our services. It's called Cloud Devi Ex. You could get these and we're also about kind off announcing the release ofthe control shift. It's over for one of our first date. Imagine applications, which kind of helps you manage data in a two different locations. >> So go over more specific and detail in the control shift. Specifically is which of those five data services you talk about is control shift most clearly associating with >> right. So if you go toe again back to this question about like five different services, if you have to think about B r o D. R. Is a necessity for every business, it's official protection. You need it. But the challenge is that you know that three four challenges you gently round into the most common people talk about is that one is that you have a plan. You'LL have a proper plan. It's challenging to plan something, and then you think about the fire drill. We have to run when there's a problem. And then last leaving actually pushed the button. Tofail over doesn't really work for you. Like how fast is it going to come up? So those three problems we can have one to solve really like really solidly So we call our service is a dear services fail proof tr that's actually takes a little courage to say fail proof. So control shift is our service, which actually does this. The orchestration does mobility across the two different places from could be on prime time on Prem on prompted the cloud. And because we have this into end data services ourselves, the it's easy to then to compliance checks all the time so we could do compliance checks every few minutes. So what that gives you that? Is that the confidence that that your dear plan's going to work for you when you need it? And then secondly, when you push the button because you also prime restoration back up, it's then easy to bring upon your services at once like that, and the last one is that because we are able to then work across the clouds and pride, the seamless experience. So when you move the data to the cloud, have some backups there. When you push a button to fail over, we'LL bring up your services in via MacLeod so that the idea is that it look exactly the same no matter where you are in the D. R or North India and then, you know, you watch the video, watch the demos. I think they look and see that you can tell the difference. >> Well, that's great. So give us a little bit of visibility into how day Truman intends to extend these capabilities, which give us a little visibility in the road map. Next. >> So we are already on Amazon with the cloud. The next time you're gonna be delivering his azure, that's the next step. But But if I step back a little bit and how do we think about our ourselves? Like if you look at his example Google, Google, you know, fairies, all the data and Internet data and prizes that instant search for that instant like an access to all the data you know, at your finger finger tips. So we wanted something similar for enterprise data. How do we Federated? How do we aggregate data and the property? The customer, the instant management they can get from all the data. They have already extract value from the data. So those things are set off application We're building towards organic scum. Examples are we're building, like, deep search. How do you find the things you want to find? You know, I've been a very nice into to weigh. And how do you do Compliance? GPR. And also, how do you think about you know, some dependent addicts on the data? And so we also extend our control shift not to just manage the data on all platforms. Brawls hardly manage data across different platforms. So those kind of things they're thinking about as a future >> excellent stuff is already CTO daydream. Thanks very much for talking to us about auto matrix control shift and the direction that you're taking with this very, very extreme new vision about data on business come more easily be bought together. So, you know, I'll tell you what. Let's take a look at a demo >> in today's enterprise data centers. You want a simple way to deal with your data, whether in the private or public cloud, and ensure that dealing with disaster recovery is easy to set up. Always complied and in sync with the sites they address and ready to run as the situations require built on consistent backups, allowing you to leverage any current or previous recovery point in time with near zero rto as the data does not have to be moved in order to use it. Automated orchestration lets you easily test or execute recovery plans you have constructed with greater confidence, all while monitoring actions and progress from essential resource. This, along with maintaining comprehensive run books of these actions, automatically from the orchestration framework. Managing your Systems Day Tree in autumn matrix provides this solution. Run on local host flash and get the benefits of better performance and lower. Leighton sees back up and protect your data on the same converged platform without extracting it to another system while securing the data in your enterprise with end and encryption automating salas desired for your business needs with policy driven methods. The capture the what, when and where aspects of protecting your data, keeping copies locally or at other sites efficiently Move the data from one location to another weather in your private or public cloud. This is the power of the software defined converged infrastructure with cloudy are from day tree, um, that we call Oughta Matrix. >> Hi. And welcome back to another cube conversation once again on Peter Births. And one of the biggest challenges that every user faces is How did they get Mohr out of their technology suppliers, especially during periods of significant transformation? Soto have that conversation. We've got Brian Bond, who's the director of infrastructure? The meter A seaman's business. Brian, welcome to the Cube. >> Thanks for having me. >> So tell us a little about the meteor and what you do there. >> So E Meter is a developer and supplier of smart grid infrastructure software for enterprise level clients. Utilities, water, power, energy and, ah, my team was charged with managing infrastructure for that entire business units. Everything from Deb Test Q and sales. >> Well, the you know, the intelligent infrastructure as it pertains to electronica rid. That's not a small set of applications of small city use cases. What kinds of pressure is that putting on your infrastructure >> A lot of it is the typical pressures that you would see with do more with less doom or faster. But a lot of it is wrapped around our customers and our our other end users in needing more storage, needing Mohr at performance and needing things delivered faster on a daily basis. Things change, and keeping up with the Joneses gets harder and harder to do as time moves on. >> So as you think about day trims Auto Matrix. How is it creating value for you today? Give us kind of, Ah, peek into what it's doing to alleviate some of these scaling and older and researcher pressures, >> So the first thing it does is it does allow us to do a lot more with less. We get two times the performance five times the capacity, and we spend zero time managing our storage infrastructure. And when I say zero time I mean zero time, we do not manage storage anymore. With the data in product, we can deploy thanks faster. We can recover things faster are Rto and R R P. O matrix is down two seconds instead of minutes or hours, and those types of things really allow us to provide, Ah much better level of service to our customers. >> And it's especially critical. Infrastructure like electronic grid is good to hear. That the Rto Harpo is getting is close to zero as possible. But that's the baseline today. Look out and is you and vision where the needs of these technologies are going for improving protection, consolidating converging gated services and overall, providing a better experience from a business uses data. How do you anticipate that you're goingto evolve your use of autumn matrix and related data from technologies? >> Well, we fully intend to to expand our use of the existing piece that we have. But then this new autumn matrix piece is going to help us, not witches deployments. But it's also going to help us with compliance testing, data recovery, disaster recovery, um, and also being able to deploy into any type of cloud or any type of location without having to change what we do in the back in being able to use one tool across the entire set of the infrastructure they were using. >> So what about the tool set? You're using the whole thing consistently, but what about the tool set when in easiest for you within your shop, >> installing the infrastructure pieces themselves in its entirety. We're very, very easy. So putting that into what we had already and where we were headed was very, very simple. We were able to do that on the fly in production and not have to do a whole lot of changes with the environments that were doing at the time. The the operational pieces within the D. V X, which is this the storage part of the platform were seamless as far as V Center and other tools that we're using went and allowed us to just extend what we were doing already and be able to just apply that as we went forward. And we immediately found that again, we just didn't manage storage anymore. And that wasn't something we were intending and that made our r I just go through the roof. >> So it sounds like time to value for the platform was reserved for quick and also it fit into your overall operational practices. So you have to do a whole bunch of unnatural acts to get >> right. We did not have to change a lot of policies. We didn't have to change a lot of procedures, a lot of sounds. We just shortened. We took a few steps out on a lot of cases. >> So how is it changing being able to do things like that, changing your conversation with your communities that you're serving a CZ? They asked for more stores where they ask for more capabilities. >> First off, it's making me say no, a lot less, and that makes them very, very happy. The answer usually is less. And then the answer to the question of how long will it take changes from? Oh, we can get that done in a couple of days or, oh, we can get that done in a couple hours to I did that while I was sitting here in the meeting with you, and it's it's been handled and you're off to the races. >> So it sounds like you're police in a pretty big bed and a true, uh, what's it like? Working with them is a company. >> It's been a great experience from from the start, in the initial piece of talking to them and going through the POC process. They were very helpful, very knowledgeable SCS on DH, and since then They've been very, very helpful in allowing us to tell them what our needs are, rather than them telling us what our needs are and going through and working through the new processes and the and the new procedures within our environments. They've been very instrumental and performance testing and deployment testing with things, uh, that a lot of other storage providers didn't have any interest in talking with us about so they've been very, very helpful with that and very, very knowledgeable people that air there are actually really smart, which is not surprising. But the fact that they can relay that into solutions to what my actual problems are and give me something that I can push forward on to my business and have ah, positive impact from Day one has been absolutely, without question, one of the better things. >> Well, it's always one of the big, biggest challenge when working with a company that just getting going is how do you get the smarts of that organization into the business outcomes that really succeeded? Sounds like it's working well. Absolutely. All right. Brian Bond, director Vital infrastructure demeanor, Seaman's business Thanks again for being on the Cube >> has been great >> on. Once again, this has been a cube conversation, and now what we'd like to do is don't forget this is your opportunity to participate in the crowd. Chat immediately after this video ends and let's hear your thoughts. What's important in your world is you think about new classes of data platforms, new rules of data, new approaches to taking great advantage of the data assets that air differentiating your business. Have those conversations make those comments? Asked those questions. We're here to help. Once again, Peter Bourjos, Let's go out yet.

from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley Palo Alto California this is a cute conversation welcome to the cube studios for another cube conversation where we go in-depth with thought leaders driving business outcomes with technology I'm your host Peter Burris every Enterprise wants the modern wireless experience and by now most should know that that's going to be a combination of 5g and Wi-Fi six it's not either/or it's how do we apply both of them to achieve the technological outcomes that we want within our business but it requires new thinking because there are a lot of new technologies here that are going to be applied to make that modern wireless experience happen what will be those new technologies how hard will they be to adopt and what kinds of new use cases will be will be utilized well to have that conversation we're here with Eric McLaughlin who's the GM of the wireless solutions group at Intel and Matt fierson who's the CTO of Cisco wireless Eric Matt welcome to the cube Thanks beer to hear all right so you know what let's start with you Matt when we think about this notion of the modern wireless experience I've assert it's going to be both but there's a lot of new technology behind these things give us some insight into what are some of those new technologies that folks are gonna have to start worrying about yeah you know when we're looking at something like a next generation technology there's certain areas that you expect right you expect it to be a little bit faster you expect it to connect to maybe a broader set of devices but what's interesting I think about Wi-Fi six versus previous generations is really there's new technology enhancements that really broaden the set of use cases that that technology can be applied to for example in the old days which actually isn't that long ago I think today you might even say today right um what you would do is when you go to implement a wireless technology at an enterprise what you're doing is you're trying to control a collision domain so that you get it known experience right and what you would tend to do is you tend to over provision the work and hope that it was undersubscribed and there was a lot of Technology a lot of best practices in order to do that a lot of administrative overhead politics associated exactly right and you're doing these RF walks and all these things right with something like Wi-Fi sex and the ability to schedule the air interface this becomes much much simpler you can get it more deterministic result you can map applications that might be mission-critical to lower delay characteristics and this is something that the protocol accommodates right so I think that's in the net and that is even though the technology is more sophisticated it's actually going to be easier for IT administrators to get to where they need to be for the applications they need to serve so I'm gonna dig into that in a second but let's start with you know Eric what are some of the underlying new technologies is this a big leap is that a small leap is it you know we've always talked about how you know some new thing was going to be bigger than you know best thing since sliced bread and where is this on that spectrum well from our perspective we from our perspective we see this as a significant leap in technology some of the underlying things that are coming as Matt mentioned moving from contention based to a scheduled network enables a much more efficient network from a client perspective which is where I spend my time you can you can deliver data over the network faster due to OFDM a implementation which allows huge amounts of throughput you've got larger channelization coming along with this and the combination of those things is going to to allow use cases lower power and things that we haven't been able to do with Wi-Fi in the past or at least not at the user experience level that that everybody needs in laws so to get to that user experience level it means that someone's gonna have to make some adjustments to how networks work network administrator's from practices evolve that always scares CIOs that always scares Network people Matt is this going to be one of those cases where a large leap in technology translates into you know and even bigger leap and the adoption practices some processes to actually exploit it yeah I think it's one of the things that you know a company like Cisco we pay a lot of attention to because we do see that the technologies can become more complex and if the individual IT department or the systems integrator is responsible for that complexity what happens is they actually implement less and less features so that they can get to the result with less guessing on whether or not things are actually going to work or how one feature impacts another what we're doing at Cisco within ten pages intent-based networking is basically we're pushing this policy down into the network through an abstraction that allows you to push that policy in such a way that the network then figures out how to accommodate what you're asking for and then in the reverse you're reading these analytics back that tells the administrator whether or not that experience is actually achieved so the technology is more capable for sure but it's actually going to be easier to use deploy and apply the policies that you need so one of the first place is where we really exploit the new technology is in the discovery metrics etc associated administration so it's easier to adopt it for everybody else exactly and that'll accelerate the curve so we got we got a significant advance in the quality of the technology a modest advance in the adoption characteristics or you know limited barriers and leaps we have to take here that suggests that there's going to be an explosion in the number of use cases Eric what do you think yeah we definitely see that you know today when you think of Wi-Fi in an enterprise you essentially think of access getting your device your client connected into the network so that you can have access to the data that you need and share the data that you have with others what we see and and and we kind of coined this term internally of office of the future we see Wi-Fi being used in a variety of ways to deliver experiences that a user needs and wants but doesn't know how to get today things like where are you located where are you at within an office you go to a new office you're in a new location you're able to pull up maps and see what's happening where's the conference room that you want to go to what cubes are open and those kinds of things we also see other cases where you can use Wi-Fi for sensing what's happening in the room around you what's what's happening in the environment that you're in and how does the user and the device that you're using react to those new environmental characteristics and how do you make sure that you're delivering the best possible bandwidth the best possible experience so that new things can happen connecting devices in a different way and getting to your data and they're much more seamless and easy fashion so one of the things that everybody talks about is security hmm and it's becoming increasingly difficult to differentiate security from networking in fact we're seeing in a lot of enterprises I'm sure you guys are too the NOC and the Sox start to slowly merge together into a secure infrastructure that's capable of moving data around how does security play into some of these new use cases I think it's a key question I mean when you when you look at security and you know even when you look at some of the new devices like IOT some of those devices can be sophisticated some of them not so much and so one of the things that you want to do with security is be able to differentiate that different use cases or maybe even the different equipment onto different segments of the network so how do you isolate some of these use cases from each other I mean especially around technologies like IOT which could be every light bulb in your building right somebody hacks into that light bulb and next thing you know it's spreading across and you know it could take down the whole network right so the fact that you have OFDM a and you can schedule the air interface means you can segment it if you can segment it you can secure it right so this becomes a fundamental function of the underlying technology in the case of Wi-Fi six so if I've got the opportunity to secure things better and I can support greater densities with greater performance and lower latencies that suggests that the devices themselves can get born numerous and more interesting very IOT so talk a bit about some of these use cases Matt about related to IOT and and how that's how these technologies are going to liberate some new capabilities within organizations yeah you know in in organizations today you got this IT administrator and what is he doing he's he's dealing with less staff right and oftentimes less funding yet he has to address more and more devices and sometimes users on that network well we know that IOT is going to drive this to the next order of magnitude right so we have to implement easy simple ways to push the policy into the network and you know what it might not be done by the IT administrator it might be done by the OT department and so when we look at these types of the operational segments that but not exactly exactly so you might want the operational department to have the capability to onboard these IOT devices but they have to onboard them within the policy of the IT department so that the network remains secure again the OT department right you have to onboard them in the policy of the OT Department well both both because I t's also fundamentally responsible for securing the network right right right here so as we think about the new IOT use use cases we think about greater security is there a particular area or class of application you mentioned the office of the future is there another one that we think about when you talk to customers that is likely to catalyze a lot of the excitement yeah I can give you a couple of examples when we talk to our customers especially in enterprise you can ask a very simple question do you have mission-critical applications and you know every enterprise believes it has mission-critical applications now depending on who you're talking to if it's if you're in a manufacturing plant and you're moving robot arm that's pretty mission-critical right you don't want to stop the assembly line but you know you're going to something like healthcare right you have a heart monitor or you have a palm or yes that's pretty mission-critical to but even when you go into carpeted space you know if you're over it at Cisco for example we live and breathe WebEx collaboration tools and we want to be able to prayer our prioritize that experience and make sure that we're giving our not only our customers but our employees the experience they need so that they're not focused on the function of the network but they're focused on their business right they're focused on what they're trying to do but I want to take this example of mission critical and and and see if I can wrap this up and I'll use a healthcare example so healthcare is provisioned inside a hospital or inside a doctor's office but as we think about IOT with greater densities more performance more reliability more security I can actually think about utilizing some of these technologies Wireless to provision health care to where the person is now you know I got my little apple watch that's got to be a first that's a first step but it's pedestrian compared to where we're going to be in the future talk about that for a second is it possible that we will see a business be able to extend itself and the services that provide using these technologies all the way out to their customer and so that they so anybody anywhere at anytime can have that engaging experience if it's required is that really where we're going with these technology I think it's an i man it's a spot-on question I mean if you look at what's happening in the industry services are moving into the cloud that's clear we've all seen it the numbers are there right well we want the cloud to move to where the service exactly so you say you have these services moving in the cloud mate and maybe that cloud is distributed right so there's all sorts of technologies around that right and the users are definitely going mobile right so what happens is in the IT department is what what they used to have completely contained they have their computer room and they have their network and they have their access is now actually spread out into this these mobile environments much more much more distributed and when in the example that you were talking about with IOT you give it an example of your watch but I wonder when all these things that we're wearing start to become more and more intelligent I think what's going to happen is that there's going to be services that come from the cloud that extend into that access network that's managed by an entity that's different than the cloud service but will be able to produce a predictable experience because of the ability to segment and to apply equality a service and to have predictable delay all those types of characteristics right so this technology is really preparing you for these types of shifts that we're seeing in in the users use case and in the industry Eric Matt great conversation thank you thanks very much for being on commit thank you to be here thank you for joining us for another cube conversation on Peterborough's see you next time [Music]

>> Hi, I'm Peter Birds. And welcome to another Cube conversation from the Cube studios here in Beautiful >> Powell to California. >> Today, we're going to talk about network assurance that problem that's becoming increasingly important to large organizations as they envisioned greater distribution of their digital capabilities and have that conversation you've got. David Ericsson is the CEO and co founder of Forward Networks David. Welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you. Pleasure to be here. >> So let's start by getting a sense of what forward networks is. Tell us a little bit about four networks, and then we'll jump into it. >> Yeah, four networks is ah, startup company here in Silicon Valley. Were based out of Palo Alto. Been in business for about five years now. Our background was four of us is co founders were in the networking group at Stanford under Nick McEwen. We graduated with PhDs in computer science and working in twenty thirteen, saw major problem and network operations and in the network Assurance space, and decided to go after it. Big hairy problem which will dig into. But it's been about two years since we've been in market. And >> all right, so let's talk about the big hairy problem. Aiken. Remember the days when network administration and operations was about finding a device plugging something into it, making sure that you had electrical circuit in place and then going back and telling everybody you've done your job? That was Those were very simple network, so it took a long time. Some of them are pretty complex as we move to increasingly complex physical networks, but even more complex software to find networks that assurance that that certainty that we have the network that we think we have kind of has gone away. So talk a little bit about this notion of network assurance. What is thie enterprise problem that we're trying to solve? >> Yeah, I mean, you're you're dead on If you look at the history of networking, we started very simple. We could manage this with humans. We only had so many changes we had to make on a day to day week. Do we basis but over time were now operating networks with thousands, even tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of network devices in them. And that's as you indicated on ly growing with software to find. Networking is we're bringing and dropping software elements. They're also doing forwarding to bear on this, but unfortunately, well at the same time, we also had a huge increase in applications and mission critical day today, business operations and infrastructure that depend on this network to stay up and working. But if you look at what actually has done to ensure they're working properly and what the change process looks like, it's it's somewhat depressing. To be completely honest, we make an awful lot of changes in production with minimal, if any, pre testing. Our post testing is, you know, our customers calling us or our internal customers calling us, telling us it works or not if they're not, you know, maybe we'll do a couple of peeing and simple trace route tests and and and move on. And of course, this is tremendously risky to the business, let alone security, which is a whole nother topic we can dig into. But we need to bring in. And this is what part of what for Knox has focused on is helping our customers understand and ensure that their network is always up in stable, achieving what they want to achieve that they've changed what they wanted to change and that it's as secure as they expect it to be. >> Now let me let me let me build on this notion over network assurance because we could think about it. Don't just say three levels right now. There's a lot of folks who do some sort of network device assurance. Have you updated that device? Have you updated that software construct? We got answer, but we've got a number of other tools. You could do some of those things. We also have tooling that Khun tell you. Generally speaking, you know, in a knock whether or not the network is up available, but I think what you're talking about is something that's in between where we're talking about the network being, ah, logical organization of resources that communicate with each other and assuring that as we make changes that context, that notion of things in a relationship working together is not lost. If I got that right, >> perfectly right. So today it's reasonably straightforward to with answerable or N S o R T a laugh. You know, whatever. Like some some system today to go out, make a change to the network, and then you come along behind and maybe with some other scripts ensure that that actually went out. But what's really hard is to paint the holistic picture that even though I made these changes, all of my critical applications are actually still functioning. And so this is what we would bucket in a higher level term called intent based networking. This is a reason, you know, reasonably recent entrant into how we think about networking. But it's very simple. From a high level, it's I need to. I need to holistically paint a picture for what my network should deliver to me on an end in basis. And I need to assure that this is always happening. And this Khun B from a connectivity perspective. You know, imagine, imagine I'm ah Web company that has a bunch of customers that need to come in from the Internet and hit my critical application. That's that's underpinning everything my business does, right? So I need to know that my network has paths in it that are enabling that to occur one hundred percent of the time. And so that's that's kind of the crux of of intent based networking. Butt's thinking in high level Indian actions as opposed to the very nitty gritty nuances of what's going on in any of these guys, >> actually give you know, the use case. So I can imagine a Tell Cohen operator that used to have physical devices and cordon off some of those physical devices by customers to provide their network. But as they try to, you know, gain flexibility, gain speed, game profitability. They're using a software based network approached to do a better job of ministering changes and management of those resources. It's whether customers so they want to be able to assure a customer that the network that the customer thinks it has in the context of the telcos overall network is assured it's there. The customer can weaken, validate for the customer that even though he made a change, their network is still in place, right? >> Absolutely. Multi tendency is a great use case for this, where you've got a bunch of different, even isolated networks that maybe sharing underlying physical infrastructure that are also being spun up with software software elements that are really, you know, sucking the software out of existing hardware but making it more flexible on demand. All of those capabilities, and we see that for sure, in telcos and and in that space. But we also see it in the cloud is people are moving applications up to the cloud. The same type of software elements are being controlled and set up there and have all the same pain and suffering that you see on premise. And I think you know, there's certainly not enough people that have set those up that understand that today. But as soon as they dive in and and realize all of the configuration permutations that exist in cloud networking, they can pattern majin sale. This is the same difficulty that I've had for years in my own Prem environment. >> Well, let's talk a bit about that security thing because we can dive into it because there is a close relationship between being able to say being able state categorically that this network contractually is in place on assured and that we now have an understanding of what security is required on that set of resources. How does network assurance, intent based network and security come together? Especially for you guys? >> Absolutely. So I think this to talk about this is good to talk a little bit about how the software works. So underneath the covers, we go and collect all of the data from the individual network elements without agents without actually needing packets. We build a digital twin or a model of the underlying network in software, and then we run analytics that air, based on research that came out of years and years of phD study by one of my colleagues, plus US production izing that as an organization that using an actual mathematical model we can trace where every packet could ever go in that entire environment and why this is important is to be able to prove security properties of a network. You have to know where everything could ever go to conclusively prove it right. And more often than not today we're using very small sampling methods to try toe, prove properties with humans and doing port scans and things of that nature that just aren't comprehensive. And so this is This is part of our core technology that we bring to bear on. This problem is knowing everything the network is capable of and then being able to mathematically prove security problems to your to your previous case. Imagine you've got a service provider that's offering and a network to two competitors, right? You want to make sure that those networks air actually completely isolated and that there's no possible cross talk that could occur between there. So with our software, we can analyze that we can prove the disc, you know that they're completely disconnected. And in the event that there not show you exactly why they're not when it began occurring and then quickly help you get that corrected and prove that you fixed it. >> You know it's interesting because increasingly digital business is going to mean that very, very complex partnerships are engaged through digital mechanisms. And in the world of contracting, there's a notion of a secured facility where I put something in there and you can take it out. You can look at it, but you can't take it out. And I could imagine you're your tool could also be used to set up those kinds of, you know, we used to come to Militarize owns all these types of things, but at a business level, a facility where we can assure that we know who gets in when they get in and how to get in and when they don't >> absolutely on obvious use case that occurs all the time is guest WiFi. Every company on this planet has no right. You want to make sure, though, that when people are coming and consuming your guest WiFi that they're not able to get back into your database and cause you a privacy or security incident, And this is this is something we can assist with. >> So we're talking about moving from a probabilistic approach to assurance to a categorical mathematical approach to insurance and being able to start to layer on some of those intent based networking things. Let's talk about how the prom is going to get worse. Five. G for folks who might be saying, Oh, yeah, well, I got this issue. It's going to get even richer and more complex as we put out networks out there that can have greater densities of devices within them. Higher band with, you know, even less time to assure that the networks behaving the way we expect it to. How is that going to fold into this whole story? >> Yeah, absolutely. In almost every dimension, networking is growing in complexity every single year five g is a perfect example. We talked about cloud earlier U. C S D When is another one is we kind of shift from MP lest overlays over the Internet? Um, and in the pace, the pace of that is just increasing. So if we don't, if we don't catch up to that from an operational capabilities perspective, it was going to lose control of it, frankly, and the amount of outages, security incidents, time to deliver product internally in my business. If that all continues to increase, we're going to be in a really bad place. And so that's why four networks has focused on trying to solve that and to bring up the capabilities of the operational teams to match that growing complexity and tow. Level it out, frankly, and so that it becomes something that we can consistently bring into our environmental want to transform our networks to bring in these technologies. But if we can't get ahead of the operational aspect of it, we can't do it >> way failed to adopt them. So you know, you raise something interesting, so just really quickly. How does network assurance tooling like what four Network provides change the mindset of the network administrator from I used to do it this way. And now I'm going to do it that way. >> Yeah, we think of it, Really, as Net Dev ops. It's bringing the devil ops mindset that we have in software development of all the way to test driven development where you write the test, then you write your code and then when the test passes, you know that you did what you need to do. You push that into production, you tested again and you just continue. You know, the continuous integration cadenas deployment cycle, that is the type. And we've refined that over thirty to forty years in software development. That's what enables us to have all the amazing services that we get on the broader Internet today. We believe that that same sort of mentality and the characteristics of that pipeline need to be brought to networking, to be able to give us confidence before we make changes. What the outcome of that's going to be into my network as we deploy them out to the network, that it's doing exactly what we expected to dio and then to continue to monitor that because networks are living, breathing things that have humans that are out there on keyboards, touching and changing things. If you don't keep an eye on it, it can run away from your really quickly. And so >> which one is one makes a knox such an exciting place your hand out of your All right. So very quickly. Last couple minutes here, uh, where do you see four networks going with the tooling? What's next? >> Yeah, we think that we think of it very holistically, as we would like for networks to be the single source of truth for everything about your networking environment today. This is, you know, layer two through layer for switching, routing, load balancers, firewalls, allowing you to get the visibility that you've craved across all of that to get that across the cloud, to get that across all of the leading technologies, from the various vendors and and toe layer in additional data over time. But ultimately, it's to help you have up time confidence in what you're doing to be ableto speed through the roadblocks and hurdles that you deal with internally and delivering product, delivering network applications into your network, and then just evolving that into the future. I think that this is the enabling technology to get us to the place that we have scalable five G services that we have. You know, these planet wide networks that are being put into space shortly, right, Tio, help reach every corner of the planet. And to enable the next generation of overlay services that change our lives, we need the network needs to be as reliable as power delivery and deliver the bandwidth and all of these things that we need. But to do that, we have to have scaleable network operations. Otherwise, the companies that deliver the services to us can't pay for it. >> Yeah, so it's it's Ah, it's a major challenge for and I digital business Transformation on DH. Quite frankly. Good guys versus bad guys. Yeah, Alright. David Erickson, CEO and co founder of Forward Networks. Thanks for B again for being on the Cube. Thank you very much. And I'm Peterborough's. Thanks for listening about talking about network assurance. So until next time

[Music] hi I'm Peter Burris and welcome to another Cube conversation from our outstanding studios in Palo Alto California got a great conversation today we're gonna be talking about some of the challenges and changes taking place in the MSP the managed service provider part of the marketplace made possible by software to find when SD Wang technologies and to do that we've got Alastair Johnson as a principal architect at nuage Networks here with us on the cube today Alastair welcome to the cube Thank You Peter it's great to be here so let's start corporate update nuage Networks what's going on well we've had a pretty good year so far a number of customers that we'll be announcing over the next few months that we've established this year in addition to the the major wins that I'm sure most of the markets familiar with over the last few years we're really seeing that in the managed services space that Sdn is gaining a lot of traction we're finding that particularly outside of North America but with increasing North American interest that enterprises are looking towards a managed SD wine service as opposed to doing it themselves going down the path of having a carrier come in and provide them with both connectivity and the service layer or looking at taking the service layer from a managed services provider and sourcing the connectivity themselves so this is an area that's especially fruitful and open for some significant innovation and innovation that's going to have enormous impact in how the market pays so let me let me run something by you so here's the observation I've made over the years that servers Moore's law meant that there was this kind of smooth growth and performance and even in software it would kind of followed Moore's law but network because of its because of the degree of interplay and natural integration amongst the components there was always this kind of weird step function where every four or five years the big telecommunications companies our managed service providers would make major investments in their networks and you got this very rough course odd step function and that sometimes scared some of these companies away from participating in all the innovation of the cloud have I got that right absolutely I mean the tradition of having both your service layer and your transport layer being coupled you know an IP Network is offering both the IP transport but also the services like MPLS VPNs or layer 2 VPNs has meant that you know the tech lifecycle became relatively long the process to qualify deploy managed and then eventually automate services and the delivery of those services took a long time Sdn has presented a really interesting opportunity for the carrier's as long along with the broader audience in the industry to really leverage software and the frequency of updates the software can give you without needing to make those hardware changes at the same time so you can still do the hardware changes but you get a smoother upward innovation curve absolutely so the underlying transport platforms the routers the DWDM systems etc those can be changed as needed to buy capacity demands or vendor changes or new technology that comes out in those spaces but we can use Sdn or in this case st wan to smooth out the service offering on the top and as it becomes a software delivered function we can upgrade that much faster and we can roll it out much more like we update our you know cell phones our tablets etc and introduce new functionality into the service layer much faster than we were able to do in the past where we had a very much a hardware coupled service offering now I made a comment that in many respects some of the big telecommunications companies some of the beginner Spees have not participated in this explosive innovation that's associated with the cloud and part of the reason is because when you think about cloud someone can say I can think of a new service and then they can create it and deploy because it's largely in software whereas a lot of the telecommunications MSP type companies go I get to give a new service but then they look around and they say oh the hardware's not ready and I don't wait for the hardware to be ready how does this notion of SD win and this software to find service layers start to alter the way that some of these big companies think about their underlying infrastructure cost structures how they think about automation how they go about competing for new services well well it's it becomes a very big competitive differentiator because you know I can be a carrier and I can offer new services much faster a we touched on I'm getting a benefit of automation very quickly because Sdn was heavily around automating the configuration in the service elements and I can become a lot more cost-effective with that you know customers are looking for more self control more self management information Diagnostics tooling etc but without the overheads of running very large IT and network specialized personnel so the carrier's get that advantage the enterprise's get that advantage everyone is getting you know effectively a much more modern service experience we saw that with the cloud I guess revolution if you want to put it that way that you know I no longer needed to order a server put it in a rack deploy an operating system put my application on it take six months that changed with the cloud everyone understands that the network layer did not change it's fast and that's where we saw Sdn and the data centers come along to address that problem that's what we're solving with sd1 as well so when we think about the relationship between big cloud players and some of these nm msps it is that we've got the big cloud pairs that are virtualizing everything the msps are still kind of physically stuck but still have the vast majority of those last miles that are so crucial to having that end and productivity and compatibility absolutely does that start to change as we start to think about new wireless technologies how does SD LAN improve the MS Pease ability to both bring new automation and bri new but also introduced some of these new technologies that will bring make it easier to think cloud last-mile in the same breath well it's an interesting point I mean you could look at an MSP that has no lost mile infrastructure at all.they or maybe reselling a carriers infrastructure or procuring a full their enterprise customers now they have the ability to actually manage the service layer and they could be using carrier a today to reach the customers location but they strike a new deal tomorrow with carry a B and they can swap that customer over effectively changing the engines on the airplane in flight the customer experience doesn't change for the enterprise they're still getting the same Sdn service but maybe they swapped from DSL to cable as a transport or they've added an MPLS service to a new site as well for greater reliability so this allows the msps and the carriers to you know get services out to the customers faster decoupling it from whatever the last mile technology may be and this where there's opportunities for wireless you know we're seeing a lot of interest from enterprises to augment with LTE and in the future 5g as a backup connectivity to their sites particularly in retail I mean I'm sure in Silicon Valley you've seen everyone here is swiping your card on a tablet well you know you don't want that tablet to be offline it needs connectivity or they're not making money so making sure you have reliable connectivity with the same experience is a big deal for these enterprises and and they're msps but it's not becomes part of a coherent solution as opposed to I'm gonna do my cloud thing and I'm gonna do my MSP thing absolutely and so that's another area where we're seeing a lot of interest I mean even if I look at what our internal IT is doing which is you know we need to make sure that the cloud is part of our LAN and we need to make sure that we can you know drop an application in our private data center but have resources in our public infrastructure also using that and the experience for me sitting at my desk down the street from here is the same regardless of where that application is being accessed from all right the last thing I want to talk to you about Alastair is this this notion I have I'm going to test something by you and see if I if I got it right and if I can if I'm anticipating some of the changes over in C so a lot of people presume that the cloud was a one-way ticket to something centralized and big and that had an enormous impact on how people think about the cloud we actually think about the cloud as a strategy in the technology for more easily and coherently distributing data and distributing function to where it needs to be on location basis and in certain respects I can look at the cloud kind of as a network programming model where the some of those hybrid cloud services are they're being introduced by some of the big cloud players now are really almost a layer 7 they're providing some structure to the developer about how to think about building hybrid distributed applications now I want to test that does that resonate with you from a networking standpoint absolutely and again that's something we see a lot of interest in a reasonable amount of demand as enterprises and their internal developers are getting their heads around that concept that the application can live anywhere whether it be on premises at the branch data center or in the cloud and that cloud as you point out can be rightly geographically distributed and being able to be the network glue that binds all of those locations together allows the developer and the IT organization supporting that developer to have you know if the effect of a single fabric regardless of where the application or the user is seamlessly connecting them and so it also suggestions there's nothing on a test with you that that that we are it makes it possible to imagine greater specialization in what those distributed services look like especially from a networking perspective which means that if MSPs and big teller codes do successfully incorporate some of these technologies improve their automate ability their ability to think about the service and then deliver the service very rapidly then we could see them actually being able to pick up a sizeable piece of this cloud business because they can introduce services that are specialized with a network strong network affinity that have that build on that heritage of distribution of function absolutely and you see that today you know the carriers are already providing a valuable service connecting the enterprises to the cloud but that goes beyond in you know an SDN 2.0 model I need to move certain applications to the branch there's some things that always need to live there and as an IT manager I need to manage that networking effectively but I have applications that I want to have that are running you know in a very public cloud you know SAS applications etc and I want to give my users the most efficient path to them but I also have my private applications that it may be running in a public environment but I want to carry that as if it was part of my internal corporate one and being able to get that the from an enterprise you know services perspective from an MSP from a carrier that can bundle all of this together that's a huge advantage and a time-saving for me yeah the one other thing I'd say is that we're actually talking some very large enterprises right now that are discovering that their customers there their customers are demanding very concrete strict and well-documented notions of the capabilities that they provide and this idea of SD wine is making it easier for them to sell services in to companies that want that digital interface that highly competent working digital interface absolutely so it's what last thing is we think about where this is going is there any technology on the horizon that you think Sdn is going to make easier to deploy or that's gonna make SD went that much more important oh that's an interesting question and I think as you know the ongoing digital transformation of business happens you know we're connectivity is more important than ever making sure it's reliable and available and that the user experience regardless of what type of site I'm visiting as a you know an enterprise employee making sure that you know my telephony works that my can access my documents that my R&D teams can span the globe that is a key requirement of today's enterprise at Nokia that's how we need to work internally and that's how we do work I travel around the world visit our offices my experience is seamless in the same and that I think is where Sdn is bringing a huge amount of automation value security in many cases and tell you some great anecdotes that we found in the Sdn world there and just the management and control layer well let's save another cube conversation to talk about those security antidotes well but this is Peterborough's we've been talking to Alastair Johnson who's a principal architect at nuage networks about the potential for SD when to increase the relevance of MSPs telecom providers in a marketplace that is being dominated by the cloud experience and how greater automation leads to improve service opportunities for a lot of customers and a lot of cloud related service providers Alastair thanks very much for being on the cube thanks Peter and once again on Peter Burris and you've been watching another cube conversation until next time [Music] you

from Las Vegas it's the queue covering VMworld 2018 brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners and we're back here at the Mandalay Bay in somewhat beautiful Las Vegas where we're doing third day of VMworld on the cube and on Peterborough and I'm joined by my two lead analysts here at Ricky bond with me Jim Camilo's who's looking at a lot of the software stuff David floor who's helping to drive a lot of our hardware's research guys you've spent an enormous amount of time talking to an enormous number of customers a lot of partners and we all participated in the Analyst Day on Monday let me give you my first impressions and I want to ask you guys some questions here you thought so I have it this is you know my third I guess VMworld in or in a row and and my impression is that this has been the most coherent of the VM worlds I've seen you can tell when a company's going through a transition because they're reaching to try to bring a story together and that sets the tone but this one hot calendar did a phenomenal job of setting up the story it makes sense it's coherent possibly because it aligns so well with what we think is going to happen in the industry so I want to ask you guys based on three days of one around and talking to customers David foyer what's been the high point what have you found is the most interesting thing well I think the most interesting thing is the excitement that there is over VMware if you if you contrast that with a two three years ago the degree of commitment of customers to viennois the degree of integration they're wanting to make the degree rate of change and ideas that have come out of VMware it's like two different companies totally different companies some of the highlights for me were the RDS the bringing from AWS to on site as well as on the AWS cloud RDS capabilities I think that's a very very interesting thing that's the relational database is services the Maria DB and all the other services that's a very exciting thing to me and a hint to me that AWS is going to have to get serious about well Moore's gone out I think it's a really interesting point that after a lot of conversations with a lot of folks saying all AWS it's all going to go up to the cloud and wondering whether that also is a one-way street for VMware Casta Moore's right but now we're seeing it's much more of a bilateral relationship it's a moving it to the right place and that's the second thing the embracing of multi-cloud by everybody one cloud is not going to do everything they're going to be SAS clouds they're going to be multiple places where people are gonna put certain workloads because that's the best strategic fit for it and the acceptance in the marketplace that that is where it's going to go I think that again is a major change so hybrid cloud and multi cloud environments and then the third thing is I think the richness of the ecosystem is amazing the the going on the floor and the number of people that have come to talk to us with new ideas really fascinating ideas is something I haven't seen at all for the last last three four years and so I'm gonna come back to you on that but it goes back to the first point that you make that yeah there is a palpable excitement here about VMware that two-three years ago the conversation was how much longer is the franchise gonna be around Jim but now it's clear yeah it's gonna be around Jim how about you yeah actually I'm like you guys I'm a newbie to VM world this is my very first remember I'm a big data analyst I'm a data science an AI guy but obviously I've been aware of VMware and I've had many contacts with them over the years my take away my prime and I like Pat Gail singers I agree with you Peter they're really coherent take and I like that phrase even though it sounds clucking impact kind of apologize they are the dial tone to the multi-cloud if the surgery really gives you a strong sense or who else can you character is in this whole market space cloud computing has essentially a multi cloud provider who provide the unifying virtualization glue to help their custom to help customers who are investing in an AWS and maybe in a bit of you know you're adopting Google and Microsoft Azure and so forth providing a virtualization layer that's the above server virtualization network virtualization VDI all the way to the edge nobody can put it all is putting it all together and quite the way that VMware is one of the my chief takeaways is similar to David's which is that in terms of the notion of a hybrid cloud VMware with its whole what's it's doing with RDS but also projects like this project dimension which is in project in progress taking essentially the entire VMware virtualization stack and putting it onto an appliance for deployment on the edges and then for them to manage it VMware of this their plans as an end-to-end managed edge cloud service and so forth Wow the blurring of public and private cloud I don't even think the term hybrid cloud applies it's just a blurry the common cloud yeah it's moving to the workload the clouds moving to the data which is exactly what we say they are halfway there in terms of that vision halfway in a sense that RDS has been announced the you know on the VMware and this project dimension they're well along with that if there was a briefings for the analyst space I'm really impressed for how they're architecting this I think they've got a shot to really dominate well I'll tell you so I would agree with you just to maybe provide a slightly different version of one of the things you said I definitely agree I think what's VMware hopes to do and I think they're not alone is to have AWS look like an appliance to their console to have as you look like an appliance of their Khan so through free em where you can get access to whatever services you need including your VMware machines your VMs inside those clouds but that increasingly their their goal is to be that control point that management point for all of these different resources that are building and it is very compelling I think that there's one area that I still think we need more from as analysts and we always got to look through no and what's yeah what was more required and I hear what you say about project dimension but I think that the edge story still requires a fair amount of work oh yeah it's a project in place but that's going to be an increasingly important locus of how architectures get laid out how people think about applications in the future how design happens how methodologies for building software work David what do you think what when you look out what what is what what is more is needed for you so really I think there are two things that give me a small concern the the edge that's a long term view so they got time to get that right but the edge view is very much an IT view top-down and they are looking to put in place everything that they think the OT people should fit in with I think that is personally not going to be a winning strategy you you have to take it from the bottom up the world is going to go towards devices very rich devices and sensors lots of software right on that device the inference work on those devices and the job of IT will be to integrate those devices it won't be those devices taking on the standards of IT it'll be IT that has to shape itself to look after all those devices there so that's a that's the main viewpoint I think that needs adjustment and it will come I'm sure over time but as you said there's a lot of computer science it's going to be an enormous amount of new partnerships are gonna be fabricate exactly to make this happen Jim what do you think yeah I agree terms of partnerships one big gap from both VMware and Dell technologies partnerships and romance and technology proposes AI now they have a project VMware call from another project called project Magna which is really AI ops in fact I published a wiki about reports this week on AI ops AI to drive IT Service Management and to and they're doing some stuff they're working on that project it's just you know the beginning stages I think what's going to happen is that vmware dell technologies they're gonna have to make strategic acquisitions of AI solution providers to build up that capability because that's going to be fundamental to their ability to manage this complex multi called fabric from end to end continuously they need that competency internally that can't be simply a partner providing that that's got to be their core competencies so you know I'm gonna push it I'll give you the contrarian point of view okay we actually had Khamsin VMware we've had a lot of conversations about this does that is that a reflection of David's point about top-down buying things and pushing it down as opposed to other conversations we've had about how the edge is going to evolve where a lot of OT guys are going to combine with business expertise and technology expertise to create specialized solutions and is and then VMware is gonna have to reach out to them and make VMware relevant to them do you think it's going to be VMware buying a bunch of stuff or an a-grade no solution or is it going to be the solutions coming from elsewhere and VM at VMware I just becoming more relevant to them now you can still be buying a bunch of stuff to get that horizontal in place but which way you think it's going to go I think it's gonna be the top-down they're gonna buy stuff because if I talk to the channel one of the channel people this morning about well you know but they've got an IOT connected bundle and so forth they announced this show you know I think they agree with me that the core AI technology needs to be built into the fundamentals like the IOT stack bundle that they then provide to the channel partners for with you know with channel specific content that they can then tweak and customize to their specific needs but you know the core requirements for a I are horizontal you know it's the ability to run neural networks to do predictive analysis anomaly detection and so forth this is all cross-cutting across all domains it has to be in the core application stack they can't be simply something they source for particular channel opportunities it has to be leveraged across you know the same core tensorflow models for anomaly detection for manufacturing for logistics for you know customer relationship management whatever it's or are you saying essentially that then VMware becomes that horizontal play even though even if the solution providers are increasingly close to the actual action where the edges III I'm gonna disagree we can gently on that but we'd still be friends [Music] no it's you know I'm I'm an OT guy of hearth I suppose and I think that that is going to be a stronger force in terms of VMware but there will be some places where you it will be top-down but other places that where it's going to be need needed to adjust but I think there's one other there very interesting area I'd like to bring up in terms of of this question of acquisition what what we heard about beforehand was excellent results and VMware has been adding a you know a billion dollars a year in terms of free cash there and they have thirteen billion in short term cash there and the the refinancing from Dell is gonna take eleven of that thirteen and put it towards the towards the the company now you can work towards deltek yes well just Dell Dell as a hold and and silver later towards those partners I I personally believe that there is such a lot of opportunity that's going to be out there if you take NSX for example it has the potential to do things in new areas they're gonna need to provide solutions in those new areas and aggressively go after those new areas and that's going to mean big investments and many other areas where I think they are going to need acquisitions to strengthen the whole story they have the whole multi-cloud story about this real-time operating system in a sexy has a network routing virtualization backplane I mean it needs to go real-time so sensitive guaranteed ladies if they need that big investments guarantee yeah they need to go there yeah so what we're agreeing on that and I get concerned that it's not going to be given the right resources you know to be able to actually go after the opportunities that they have genuinely created it's gonna mean from you see how that plays out so I think all drugs in the future I think saying though is that there is going to be a solution a set of solution players that VMware is going to have to make significant moves to make them relevant and then the question is where it's the values story what's the value proposition it's probably gonna be like all partnerships yeah some are gonna claim that they are doing it also some are gonna DM where it's gonna claim that they do more of it but at the end of the day VMware has to make themself relevant to the edge however that happens I want to pick up on NSX because I'm a pretty big believer that NSX may be the very special crown jewel and a lot of the stuff this notion of hybrid cloud whatever we call it let's just call it extended cloud let me talk of a better word like it is predicated on the idea that I also have a network that can naturally and easily not just bridge but truly multi network interoperate internet work with a lot of different cloud sources but also all different cloud locations and there's not a lot of technologies out there that are great candidates to do that and it's and I look at NSX and I'm wondering is that gonna be kind of a I want to take the metaphor too far but is that gonna be kind of a new tcp/ip for the cloud in the sense that you're still gonna run over tcp/ip and you're still gonna run over the Internet but now we're gonna get greater visibility into jobs into workloads into management infrastructures into data locations and data placement predictive movement and NSX is going to be the at the vanguard of showing how that's gonna work and the security side of that especially to be able to know what is connected to what and what shouldn't be connected to what and to be able to have that yeah they need stateful structured streaming others Kafka flink whatever they need that to be baked into the whole nsx virtualization layer that much more programmable and that provides that much better a target for applications all right last question then we got a wrap guys David as you walk out the door get in the plane what are you taking away what's your last impression my last impression is one of genuine excitement wanting to work wanting to follow up with so many of the smaller organizations the partners that have been here and who are genuinely providing in this ecosystem a very rich tapestry of of capability that's great Jim my takeaway is I want to see their roadmap for kubernetes and serverless there wasn't a hole last year they made an announcement of a serverless project I forgot what the code name is didn't hear a whole lot about it this year but they're going up the app stack they got a coop you know distribution you know they're if they need a developer story I mean developers are building functional apps and so forth you know you can and they're also containerized they need they need a developer story and they need a server list story and they need to you need to bring us up to speed on where they're going in that regard because AWS their predominant partner I mean they got lambda functions and all that stuff you know that's that's the development platform of the present and future and I'm not hearing an intersection of that story with VMware's a story yeah my last thing that I'll say is that I think that for the next five years VMware is gonna be one of the companies that shapes the future of the cloud and I don't think we would have said that a couple of names no they wouldn't I agree with you so you said yes all right so this has been the wiki bond research leadership team talking about what we've heard at VMware this year VMworld this year a lot of great conversation feel free to reach out to us and if you want to spend more time with rookie bond love to have you once again Peter burrows for David floor and Jim Kabila's thank you very much for watching the cube we'll talk to you again [Music]

why from Las Vegas it's the cube covering implementing a world 2018 machito by informatica okay welcome back everyone's the cube live here in Las Vegas at the Venetian ballroom is the cubes exclusive coverage of informatica world 2018 I'm John for your host in analyst here with Peter Baris host and analyst here for two days of coverage our next two guests are jitesh guy who's the senior vice president general manager data quality security and governance for informatica and barry green the chief data officer for bank of ireland great to see you attached great to have you on the cube and great to be here so love having two to smart people talking about data GPRS right around the corner and friday you're at the bank of ireland so in the middle of it while you're in you're in this in the territory you're in the heart get any sleep what talk about your role at the bank what are you guys doing I want to get into the GDP RS right on our doorstep it's going to major implications for data as a strategic asset talk about what you do so for me we've created a daily management framework frameworks pretty simple map process get context for data put it into the business data model or sign ownership put data quality over it and then maintain it using a risk model operational risk model now it doesn't matter with GDP our or becbs whatever it is it's about adding value to data understanding day they're using it for them and making sure you've got better customer experience all the good things you know GDP are is important but it's not the only thing you guys are new to managing data and certainly complies your financials bank so it's not a new thing what is how is GDP are being rolled out how is it impacting you guys what are you paying attention to what's the impact so the big thing about GDP are is we're having to understand where our key customer data's sits in the physical systems we're looking at mapping key processes something to see and what it's used for we're assigning ownership to people who own data so we can basically make decisions about it in the future GDP ours a bit like becbs that's going to evolve right you're not going to be GDP are compliant on May 25th you're gonna have to put in place the infrastructure the tooling the governance the management to make sure that as an organization you know you were using data the way it's supposed to be if you want to be a digital organization you have to manage data this is just pushing along they had evolution of data being important to an organization but just as y2k wasn't about making the world safe for mainframes in the year 2000 it forced a separation and understanding of the separation that's required between applications and data so gdpr is another one of those events it's forcing a separation in this case between data and the notion of data assets great so take us through how the thought process of gdpr has catalyzed new thinking within the bank about how we think about data differently as a consequence I think what it's done so we've developed the framework so we can apply it to any problem right I think what it's done is it's raised up data's the risk of data more generally so people talk about data as an asset I've talked about data as a liability right so it's a contingent liability if you think about gdpr it's raise that awareness up that we can't continue to operate and tricked out of the way we have in the past so there's a whole cultural change going on around how we treat data and there's a big understanding training going on about everyone knowing why they use data making sure that they don't use it for the purpose it's not used for and generally it's a big education cultural change very how would you describe the mindset for this new thinking it certainly I agree with you it's at the strategic nature center the center of the center of the value proposition right now on all aspects not just some department what's the mindset that people should be thinking about when they think of data okay should I have access to this data but do I need it for the role I'm undertaking and if it was my data would I be treating it you know how would I shred it how would I want it to be treated even if you're the subject yeah exactly it's almost like you know if I had my data being used for certain thing context is that the way I'd want my data treated there's almost in the old adage you know do unto others as you would have you done to you yeah ethics is important yeah to church talk about the informatics opportunity because you guys really timings pretty awesome for informatica with the catalog you guys have an interesting opportunity right now to come in and do a lot of good things for clients that's that's exactly right we've we've been working very hard with our clients over the last 18 months to help them on this gdpr journey what we you know think of as supporting their privacy and protection and and you mentioned catalog you know our we have our enterprise data catalog powered by Claire our AI machine learning capabilities and metadata and that helps you get an organized view of all your data assets within the enterprise leveraging that same technology we have a security source offering which is effectively a data subject catalog to help our customers understand where exactly is the data subject sensitive data not where the organization's data is but the data subject sensitive data within the organization where their national identifiers information is how where their personal home address email phone etc is and how many occurrences and what systems why so that our customers can take that information and more effectively respond to the data subject if the data subject wants to invoke you know the right to be forgotten or right for data portability etc as well as take that same information and demonstrate to the regulator that they are processing this sensitive data with the appropriate with the appropriate consent from the data subject as well as have the systems I presume to then be able to expose to the subject the reasons why the data may in fact still be part of the asset of the bank correct so I I hadn't heard that before we've had other company cells that they're going to help companies find subject data but you guys are taping us taking a step further and allowing the bank for in this case do we have to look at that data from the subjects perspective exactly right because it's not just with some regulations financial regulations you need to demonstrate the quality and trustworthiness of the data here at to the regulator here it's demonstrating to the data subject themselves the individual themselves how you're processing how you're treating their data how protected or unprotected it is and and how you're using it to market to them how you using to become part of the metadata that's exactly right it's using the same metadata foundation too but focused on the data subject specifically interesting interpret ection aspect of it if I say I want my right to be forgotten and you can hold data for something mean where's the where's the protection aspect for the business and the user is there conflict there how do you guys handle that yes that's interesting there is a conflict so there's a conflict already with an existing regulation so you know um the thing that a lot of people aren't talking about is you can hold data so if someone can't just delete data if you want to hold an account or you know these reasons for using it you got a legitimate use for using it you can still hold it you have to tell a customer why you're using it so there's a lot of context here which they didn't have before so it's giving the customer the power to understand what the data is being used for the context is being used for and so they know it's not gonna be used for sort of spiritless marketing campaigns it's being used for you know the reason that does that extra work for you guys is that automated this is where we start to get into the question next yeah which is a context the context is the metadata and you're going to be able to capture that context explicitly as these data elements have this context in metadata allows you to do that with some degree of certainty and you know relatively low cost I assume it's all about reuse right so a lot of what we've done in the past and on its way at the bank um to me everyone's done in the past is they've understood something and then thrown it away so with Exxon you can record it you know record it then with the metadata you can join the metadata in Exxon so you can do in a high level process understand what data is used at the context is used for who owns that quality all these kind of business relevant things then you put the metadata out and you've got a system view it's very very powerful so the technology is starting to allow us to automate but it's all about gathering it reusing it and making sure you understand it right that's for you know from a from a data subject catalog standpoint you get the technical metadata it tells you across your data landscape where all the sensitive information is for Barry green you marry that up with the business metadata of how is that sensitive information being used in every step of let's say customer onboarding your mission critical business processes within the organization and that's what you demonstrate to a data subject or a regulator if this is how I'm processing it based on this consent now if they invoke the right to be forgotten there's various things you can do there because there's conflicts you can just mask the data using our masking capabilities and then it's true forgotten or you can archive the data and remove it from a particular business process that is marketing or selling to them if that's so yeah choice is it some flexibility correct or or slight maybe slightly differently Mystere forgot that's right you can get work out of that data in an appropriate way so the customer can be forgotten so that this this kind of work now that you cannot apply that data to marketing whatever else it might be for when it comes to understanding better products or building better products whatever else through masking you can apply the data still to that work because it's a legitimate use under the law exactly also think about the fact you've mask key critical data right so the thing about data privacy in general was you know if you can't understand a data subject so if you can hide certain pieces of data and you can't identify them you didn't aggregate it you can it's not personal data anymore so you know there's this some real nuance there's a lot of people aren't talking about these things but these new icers will be surfaced yeah yeah because certainly it's a it's the beginning of a generational shift there gonna be some pain points coming online I mean we're hearing some people complaining here and there you guys are you know used to this some industries are like used to dealing with Brad you know compliance like no big deal some people are fast and loose with their data like wait a minute I said you can't be a digital wanker we can't be a head of digital propositions you don't understand your data you know you and you don't understand it and manage it so this is an opportunity to do this across the enterprise it exposes companies that have not planned for an architected data whether that's investment in data engineering or have staff this is a huge issue and pools and tools that can't support that process I mean if you got a I mean people are looking in their organization going oh man we've really don't have it or they're ready the exciting part is you know organizations have focused on quality and trustworthiness of their data we're now taking that same data and focusing on the privacy and protection and the ethical treatment of it and leveraging the appropriate technologies which happen to be very similar fundamentally for quality and Trust and privacy and protection and and in the absence of a global standard for GDP our we're we're seeing organizations without GDP our as a de facto standard in fact Facebook just announced that they're treating all users data you know that was one of our research predict yes yeah very obvious I mean we'll see how eleven have any teeth or anything but you know Facebook's got their own challenge but it's an opportunity for a clean sheet of paper Friday May 27 I'm sure there's gonna be a ton of class-action lawsuits against Facebook jitesh Barry thanks for coming on great to see you thanks for everything in Ireland we're here on the open and informatica world right and written the solutions expose the cue bringing you all the data right here in the catalog you got the cube dotnet check it out I'm people John free with Peterborough's stay with us for more day to coverage at different Matic world after this short break

why from Las Vegas it's the cube covering informatica world 2018 bacio by inform Attica hey welcome back it runs the cubes exclusive coverage of informatica world 2018 we're here at the Venetian in Las Vegas live I'm John for your co-host with Peterborough's coasting and head of analyst said we keep on insulating all the cube our next guest is jammed the dalla who's the enterprise analytics architecture engineer sire pharmaceutical and some named director of the enterprise analytic solutions lead at sire as well great to have you guys thanks for joining us thank you so love getting the practitioner view of kind of the reality right of what's going on off see dramatic has their show you guys are a customer you're looking at some of their products take a minute first to talk about what you guys do first see Pharma got some stuff going on Davies involved privacy's involves you're in Europe in the u.s. GDP ours here think I'm gonna talk about what you guys do sure so char Pharmaceuticals is a global leader in rare diseases so there's about 350 million patients who are effective remedies is today and so art group with NIT enterprise analytics so we're focused on making sure we bring the right technologies and capabilities around bi and analytics to the organization so we look at products tools figure out how they fit into our our ecosystem of bi stack of tools and make that available to our RIT colleagues as well as our business colleagues so rare disease can you just explain kind of categorically what that is cuz I'm assuming this fits rare is not a lot of data on it or there's data you got to figure out what is that how do you guys categorize that so rare disease you know majority the rare disease affected by affected children so that's a kind of a critical aspect of what we do you know rare disease could be in immunology it could be in oncology GI I mean there's very disease typically you know people who are affected affected probably less than a thousand or 2,000 I think one of our drugs the population is around 5,000 people and these are chronic diseases typically their chronic diseases so they're they're they're diseases that affect the quality of life of an individual so what you guys are doing is identifying what is it about the genealogy etc the genome associated with the disease but then providing treatments that will allow especially kids an opportunity to have live a better life over extensive time yeah and what do you guys do there in terms the data side can you explain what your roles are yeah so like I said we're you're in the enterprise analytics so we're focused on bringing technologies and capabilities around bi and analytics spaces so how do we bring data in and ingest it how do we curate the data how do we do if data visualizations how do we do data discovery advanced analytics so all of those kind of capabilities and we're responsible for so what's your architecture today you have some on premises their cloud involved you just kind of lay out kind of the environment as much as you can share I know maybe some confidential information but for the most part what's the current landscape internally for you guys what are you dealing with the data sure so we fill out a new a new next generation analytics we called it our marketplace or the analytics marketplace we're leveraging both on Prem as well as cloud technologies so we're leveraging Microsoft Azure hdinsight for Hadoop the Big Data technologies as well as informatica for data ingestion and bringing data and transform or transforming yet but there are many tools involved in that one so it's like the whole ecosystem we call does marketplace which is backbone for shared enterprise analytics strategy and future you guys put a policy around what tools people can bring to work so to speak and we're seeing a proliferation of tools there's a tool vendor everywhere we look around the big data it's right I got a tool for this I got a tool for wrangling I've seen everything how do you guys deal with that onslaught of tools coming in do you guys look at it more from a platform respective how are you guys handling that right so look at a platform perspective and we try to bring tools in and make that a standard within the organization we look at you know the security is it enterprise grade technology and yeah it's a challenge I mean they're basically certified you kick the tires give it a pace test through its paces and then we have our own operations team so we can support that that tool set the platform itself so and what are your customers do with the data they doing self service or they data scientists are they like just business analysts what's the profile of the users of your customers of your we have all set of users they have like a technical folks which they want to use the data like traditional ETL reality so there are folks from the business they want to do like self-serve and unless they want to do analysis on the data so we have all the capabilities in our marketplace so some tools enable those guys to get the data for the selves or like the tools we have and dalibor does their own stuff like the eld talk a little bit about the one of the key challenges associated with pharmaceuticals especially in the types of rare disease chronic young people types of things that you guys are mainly focused on a big challenge has always been that people when they start taking a drug that can significantly improve their lives they start to feel better and when they start to feel better they stop taking it so how are you using big data to or using analytics to identify people help describe potential treatments for them help keep them on the regimen how do you do are you first of all are you doing those things and as you do it how are you ensuring that you are compliant with basic ethical and privacy laws and what types of tools are you using to do that it's a big question yeah yeah so we are doing some of that you know we have looked at things around persistence and adherence and understanding kind of you know what what combination of drugs may work best for certain individuals or groups of people yeah and definitely you know some compliance is a big factor in that so when I'm working close with a compliance group understanding how we're allowed to use that data in between which parts of the organization do you anticipate that you'll have a direct relationship as some of these customers or is there an optimist in other words does analytics provide you an opportunity to start to alter the way that you engage the core users of your products and services like I believe so you know I think one thing that we're looking at which strategic standpoint is um how do we diagnose people sooner a lot of these chronic diseases you know they go through 2-3 years of undiagnosed so they'll jump around from you know doctor a doctor if I understand what you know what the issue is so I think one thing we're looking at is how do we use data and AI to to more quickly be able to diagnose patients has a 360 view helped you guys of data you guys have a 360 view how do you cuz we'll look at that in terms of a channel selling a product and serving because we have a different perspective what's the 360 view benefit that you guys are getting yeah so we have a kind of a customer care model which is kind of a 360 for our customer so understanding you know around just drug manufacturing to making sure they have the right you know they have the right supply to understand is it working for the patient's so we've always been talking about the role a big day you mentioned had to do that Hadoop supposed to be this whole industry now it's a feature of data right so there's a variety of you know infrastructure as a service platform as a service some say I pass and Big Data how are you guys looking at that as as as builders of IT next-generation IT the role of I pass and Big Data we see it as a role in a blur you know I think what cloud brings us in the past type solutions is agility you know we as the market is so evolving so quickly and there's new versions of new software coming out so quickly that you wanna be able to embrace that and leverage that give it benefit of like give it some sort of a comparison old way versus a cloud like is there been some immediate benefits that just pop out yeah that a lot more benefits with doing the world way and the cloud way because with the cloud that brings a lot more scalability in in all India's to get like 10 servers you need to work with the infrastructure team I get it like it takes three months or two months again it with the cloud based one you've worked out you can scale up or scale down so that's one thing because it's so you're talking about Big Data yeah you're getting the volume of data you're getting you need to scale up your storage or your any compute you either JMS and compute bring data to the table and then you gotta have the custom tooling for the visualization yeah how that kind of together right you talk about them from your perspective the balance that you have to have guys have to deal with every day like you got to deal with the current situation NIT you got cloud you got an electrical customers personas of people using the product but you got to stay in the cutting edge it's like what's next cuz we going down the cloud road you're looking at containers kubernetes service meshes you need a lot more stuff coming down the pike if you will coming down the road for you guys how are you guys looking at that and how are you managing it you have some greenfield projects do you do a little you know Rd you integrated in how are you dealing with this new cloud native set of technologies yeah definitely a balancing act you know I think we do a lot of pocs and we actually work with our business and IT counterparts to see hey if there's a new use case that is coming down you know how do we solve that use case with some of the newer technologies and we try a POC may bring in a product to just see if it works and then see how do we then do we then take that to the enterprise so I got one final question for you guys and maybe you do as well John but but in life and death businesses like pharmaceuticals is a life and death business the quality of the data is really really important getting it wrong has major implications the fidelity of the system is really crucial you say using informatica for for example ingest and other types of services how has that choice made the business feel more certain about the quality of their data that you're using in your analytic systems into standardization so you know if between MDM round mastering our data - ingesting data transforming our data just having that data lineage having that standard around how that data gets transformed is that fundamentally a feature of the services that you're providing is you not only were you you know the ability to do visualization on data but actually providing your scientists and your businesspeople and your legal staff explicit knowledge about where this data came from and how trustworthy it is and whether they should be making these kind of free complex very real hardcore human level decisions on is that is that all helping yes because it seems like it would be a really crucial determination of what tools you guys would use right it is yeah and absolutely I think also as we move more towards self-service and having these people having data scientists do their things on their own being able to have the tools that can do that kind of audit and data lineage is crucial great to have you guys on we had a wrap I want to ask one more question here you guys were an innovation award e informática congratulations any advice for your peers out there want to unleash the power data and be on the cutting edge and potentially be an honoree yeah I would say just definitely think outside the box seem to try new things try puce you know do POCs is there so much new technologies coming down so quickly that it's hard to keep up Jam cuz it's like a moving target you need to chase your movie target and based on B was it that gets you like what you want it to do you know siding yeah get out front don't keep your eye on the prize yeah focus on task at hand bring in the new technologies guys thanks so much for coming on great to hear the practitioners reality from the trenches certainly front lines you know life-or-death situations of quality of the data matter scaling is important cloud era of data I'm John for a Peterborough's more live coverage after the short break

>> Welcome back to the Cuban Peterborough's chief research officer of Silicon Angle and general manager of Wicked Bond. We're as part of our continuing coverage of the arse a show. We have a great guest Z scaler amid sin. Ha! Welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you for having me here. It's a pleasure to be here. >> So, um, it what exactly does Z scaler? D'oh >> Z's killer is in the business of providing the entire security stack as a service for large enterprises. We sit in between enterprise users and the Internet and various destinations they want to goto, and we want to make sure that they have a fast, nimble Internet experience without compromising any security. >> So if I can interpret what that means, that means that as Maur companies are trying to serve their employees that Air Mobile or customers who aren't part of their corporate network they're moving more. That communication in the Cloud Z scale is making it possible for them to get the same quality of security on that communication in the cloud is he would get on premise. >> Absolutely. If you look at some of the big business transformations that are happening, work lords for enterprises are moving to the cloud. For example, enterprises are adopting Office 3 65 instead, off traditional exchange based email and on your desktop applications. They might be adopting sales force for CR M Net suite for finance box for storage. So as these workloads are moving to the cloud and employees are becoming more and more mobile, you know they might be at a coffee shop. They might be on an iPad. Um, and they might be anywhere in the world. That begs the basic security question. Where should that enterprise DMC the security stack be sitting back in the day? Enterprises had a hub and spokes model, right? They might have 50 branch offices across the world. A few mobile workers, all of them, came back over private networks to a central hub, and that hub was where racks and racks of security appliances were deployed. Maybe they started off with a firewall. Later on, they added a proxy. You are l filtering some d e l P er down the road. People realized that you need to inspect us to sell. So they added some SSL offload devices. Someone said, Hey, we need to do some sand boxing for behavioral analysis. People started adding sandboxes. And so, over time the D. M. Z got cluttered and complicated and fast forward to Today. Users have become mobile. Workloads have moved to the cloud. So if I'm sitting in a San Francisco office on my laptop trying to do my regular work, my email is in the cloud. My my court applications are sitting in the cloud. Why should I have to vpn back to my headquarters in Cincinnati over a private network, you know, incurring all the Leighton see and the delays just so that I can get inspected by some legacy appliances that are sitting in that DMC, right? So we looked at that network transformation on We started this journey at Ze scale or eight years ago, and we said, Look, if users are going to be mobile and workloads are going to be in the cloud, the entire security stack should be as close as possible to where the users are. In that example, I described, I'm sitting here. I'm going to Salesforce. We're probably going to the same data center in San Francisco. Shouldn't my entire security stag be available right where I am, um, and my administrators should have full visibility, full control from a single pane of glass. I get a fast, nimble user experience. The enterprise doesn't have to compromise in any security, and that's sort of the vision that we have executing towards. >> But it's not just for some of the newer applications or some of the newer were close. We're also seeing businesses acknowledge that the least secure member of their community has an impact on overall security. So the whole concept of even the legacy has to become increasingly a part of this broad story. So if anybody accesses anything from anywhere through the cloud that those other workloads increasing, they're gonna have to come under the scrutiny of a cloud based security option. >> Absolutely. I mean, that's a brilliant point, Peter. >> I >> think of >> it this way. Despite all those security appliances that have been deployed over time, they're still security breach is happening. And why is that? That is because users are the weakest link, right? If I'm a mobile work user, I'm sitting in a branch office. It's just painful for me to go back to those headquarter facilities just for additional scanning so two things happen either I have a painful user experience. What? I bypassed security, right? Um, and more and more of the attacks that we see leverage the user as the weakest link. I send you a phishing email. It looks like it came from HR. It has a excel sheet attached to it to update some information. But, you know, inside is lurking a macro, right? You open it. It is from a squatter domain that looks very similar to the company you work for. You click on it and your machine is infected. And then that leads to further malware being downloaded, data being expatriated out. So the Z scaler solution is very, very simple. Conceptually, we want to sit between users and the destinations they goto all across the world. And we built this network of 100 data centers. Why? Because you cannot travel faster than the speed of light. So if you're in San Francisco, you better go through our San Francisco facility. All your policies will show up here. All the latest and greatest security protections will be available. We serve 5000 large enterprises. So if we discover a new security threat because of an employee from, let's say, a General Electric. Then someone from United Airlines automatically gets protection simply because the cloud is live all the time. You're not waiting for your security boxes to get, you know, the weekly patch updates for new malware indicators and so on. Right, So, um, you get your stack right where you are. It's always up to date. User experience is not compromised. Your security administrators get a global view off things. And one >> of the >> things that that I that we haven't talked about here it is the dramatic cost savings that this sort of network transformation brings for enterprises. To put that in perspective, let's say you're a Fortune 100 organization with 100,000 employees worldwide in that, huh? Been spoke model. You are forcing all those workloads to come toe a few choke points, right? That is coming over. Very expensive. NPLs circuits private circuits from service providers. You're double trombone in traffic, back and forth. You know, you and I are in a branch. We might be on. Ah, Skype session. Ah, Google Hangout session. All our traffic goes to H Q. Goes to the cloud comeback comes back to h. Q comes back to you, there's this is too much back and forth, and you're paying for those expensive circuits and getting a poor user experience. Wouldn't it be great if you and I could go straight to the Internet? And that can only be enabled if we can provide that pervasive security stack wherever you are? And for that, we built this network of 100 data centers worldwide. Always live, always up to date you. You get routed to the closest the scaler facility. All your policy show up. They're automatically and you get the latest and greatest protection. >> So it seems as though you end up with three basic benefits. One is you get the cost benefit of being able to, uh, have being able to leverage a broader network of talent, skills and resources You reduce. Your risk is not the least of which is that the cost and the challenges configuring a whole bunch of appliances has not gotten any easier over the last. No, it hasn't cheaters. And so not only do you have user error, but you also Administrator Erin, absolutely benign, but nonetheless it's there, and then finally and this is what I want to talk about. Increasingly, the clot is acknowledged as the way that companies are going to improve their portfolio through digital assets. Absolutely. Which means new opportunities, new competition, new ways of improving customer experience. But security has become the function of no within a lot of organizations. Absolutely. So How does how does AE scaler facilitate the introduction of new business capabilities that can attack these opportunities in a much more timely way by reducing doesn't reduce some of those some of those traditional security constraints. >> Absolutely right, and we call it the Department of No right. We've talked to most people in the industry. They view their I t folks there, security forces, the department of Know Why? Because there's this big push from users to adopt newer, nimble, faster cloud based ah solutions that that improved productivity. But often I t comes in the way. No, If you look at what Izzy's killer is doing, it's trying to transform the adoption of these Cloud service. Is that do improve business productivity? In fact, there is no debate now because there are many, many industries that ever doubt adopted a cloud first strategy. Well, that means is, as they think of the network and their security, they want to make sure that cloud is front and center. Words E scaler does is it enables that cloud for a strategy without any security compromise. I'll give you some specific examples. Eight out of 10 c I ose that we talk to our thinking about office 3 65 or they have already deployed it right. One of the first challenge is that happens when you try to adopt office. 3 65 is that your legacy network and security infrastructure starts to come crumble. Very simple things happen. You have your laptop. Suddenly, that laptop has many, many persistent SSL connections to the clothes. Because exchange is moved to the cloudy directory, service is are moving to the cloud. If you have a small branch office with 2000 users, each of them having 30 40 persistent connections to the cloud will your edge firewall chokes. Why? Because it cannot maintain so many active ports at the same time, we talked about the double trombone ing of traffic back and forth. If you try to not go direct to the Internet but force everyone to go through a couple of hubs. So you pay for all the excessive band with your traditional network infrastructure, and your security infrastructure might need a forklift upgrades. So a cloud transformation project quickly becomes a network in a security transformation project. And this is where you nosy scaler helps tremendously because we were born and bred in the cloud. Many of these traditional limitations that you have with appliance based security or networking, you know, in the traditional sense don't exist for the scaler, right? We can enable your branch officers to go directly to the cloud. In fact, we've started doing some very clever things. For example, we peer with Microsoft in about 20 sites worldwide. So what that means is, when you come to the scaler for security, there's a very high likelihood that Microsoft has a presence in the same data center. We might be one or two or three millisecond hops away because we're in the same equinox facility in New York or San Jose. And so not only are you getting your full security stack where you are, you're getting the superfast peered connections to the end Cloud service is that you want to goto. You don't have to work. Worry about you know your edge Firewalls not keeping up. You don't have to worry about a massive 30 40% increase in back hole costs because you were now shipping all this extra traffic to those couple of hubs. And more importantly, you know, you've adopted these transformative technologies on your users don't have to complain about how slow they are because you know, most of the millennials hitting the workforce. I used to a very fast, nimble experience on their mobile phones with consumer APS. And then they come into the enterprise and they quickly realize that, well, this is all cumbersome and old and legacy stuff >> in me s. So let's talk a little bit about Let's talk a bit about this notion of security being everywhere and increasingly is removed to a digital business or digital orientation. With digital assets being the basis for the value proposition, which is certainly happening on a broad scale right now, it means it's security going back to the idea of security being department. No security has to move from an orientation of limiting access to appropriately sharing. Security becomes the basis for defining the digital brand. So talk to us a little bit about how the how you look out, how you see the world, that you think security's gonna be playing in ultimately defining this notion of digital brand digital perimeters from a not a iittie standpoint. But from a business value standpoint, >> absolutely. I would love to talk about that. So Izzy's killer Our cloud today sees about 30,000,000,000 transactions a day from about 5000 enterprises. So we have a very, very good pulse on what is happening in large enterprises, from from a cloud at perspective or just what users are doing on the Internet. So here are some of the things that we see. Number one. We see that about 50 60% of the threats are coming inside SSL, so it's very important to inspect SSL. The second thing that we observe is without visibility. It is very different, very difficult for your security guys to come up with a Chris policy, right? If you cannot see what is happening inside an SSL connection, how are you going to have a date? A leakage policy, right? Maybe your policy is no P I information should leak out. No source code should leak out. How can you make sure that an engineer is not dropping something in this folder, which is sinking to Google Drive or drop box in an in an SSL tano, Right. How do you prioritize mission Critical business applications like office 3 65 over streaming media, Right. So for step two, crafting good policy is 100% real time visibility. And that's what happens when you adopt the Siskel a network. You can see what any user is doing anywhere in the world within seconds. And once you have that kind of visibility, you can start formulating policies, both security and otherwise that strike a good balance between business productivity that you want to achieve without compromising security. >> That's the policy's been 10 more net. You can also end that decisions. >> Yes, right. So, for example, you can you can have a more relaxed social media policy, right? You can say Well, you know, everyone is allowed access, but they can. Maybe streaming media is restricted to one hour a day. You know, after hours, or you can say, I want to adopt um, storage applications in the clothes here are some sanctioned APS These other raps were not going to allow right. You can do policies by users, by locations by departments, right? And once you have the visibility, you can. You can be very, very precise and say, Well, boxes, my sanction story, Jap other APS are not allowed right and hear other things that a particular group of users can do on box. Or they cannot do because we were seeing every transaction between the user on going to the destination and as a result, begin, you know, we can enable the enterprise administrator to come up with very, very specific policies that are tailored for that. >> You said something really interesting. I'm gonna ask you one more question, but I'm gonna make a common here. And that common is that the power of digital technology is that it can be configured and copied and changed, and it's very mutable. It's very plastic, but at the end of the day it has to be precise, and I've never heard anybody talk about the idea of precise and security, and I think it's a very, very powerful concept. But what are what's What's the scale are talking about in our say this year. >> Well, we're going to talk about a bunch of very interesting things. First, we'll talk about the scale of private access. This is a new offering on the scale of platform. We believe that VP ends have become irrelevant because of all the discussions we just had, um, Enterprises are treating their Internet as though it was the Internet, right? You know, sort of a zero trust model. They're moving the crown jewel applications to either private cloud offerings are, you know, sort of restricting that in a very micro segmented way. And the question is, how do you access those applications? Right? And the sea skill immortal is very straightforward. You have a pervasive cloud users authenticate to the cloud and based on policies, we can allow them to go to the Internet to sites that have been sanctioned and allowed. We make sure nothing good is leaking out. Nothing bad is coming in, and that same cloud model can be leveraged for private access to crown jewel applications that traditionally would have required a full blown vpn right. And the difference between a VPN and the skill of private access is VP ends basically give you full network access keys to the kingdom, right? Whether it's a contractor with, it's an employee just so that you could access, you know, Internet application. You allow full network access, and we're just gonna getting rid of that whole notion. That's one thing we're gonna stroke ISS lots of cloud white analytics, As I mentioned, you know, we process 30,000,000,000 transactions a day. To put that in perspective, Salesforce reports about four and 1 30,000,000,000 4 1/2 to 5,000,000,000 transactions. They're about three and 1/2 1,000,000,000 Google searches done daily, right? So it is truly a tin Internet scale. We're blocking over 100,000,000 threats every day for, ah, for all our enterprise user. So we have a very good pulse on you know what's what's an average enterprise user doing? And you're going to see some interesting cloud? Wait, Analytics. Just where we talk about a one of the top prevalent Claude APs, what are the top threats? You know, by vertical buy by geography, ese? And then, you know, we as a platform has emerged. We started off as a as a sort of a proxy in the cloud, and we've added sand boxing capabilities. Firewall capabilities, you know, in our overall vision, as I said, is to be that entire security stack that sits in your inbound and outbound gateway in that DMC as a pure service. So everything from firewall at layer three to a proxy at Layer seven, everything from inline navy scanning right to full sand. Boxing everything from DLP to cloud application control. Right? And all of that is possible because, you know, we have this very scalable architecture that allows you to to do sort of single scan multiple action right in that appliance model that I describe. What ends up happening is that you have many bumps in the wire. One of the examples we use is if you wanted to build a utility company, you don't start off with small portable generators and stack them in a warehouse, right? That's inefficient. It requires individual maintenance. It doesn't scale properly. Imagine if you build a turbine and ah, and then started your utility company. You can scale better. You can do things that traditional appliance vendors cannot think about. So we build this scalable, elastic security platform, and on that platform it's very easy for us to add. You know, here's a firewall. Here's a sandbox. And what does it mean for end users? You know, you don't need to deploy new boxes. You just go and say, I want to add sand boxing capabilities or I want to add private access or I want to add DLP. And it is as simple as enabling askew, which is what a cloud service offering should be. >> Right. So we're >> hardly know software. >> So we're talking about we're talking about lower cost, less likelihood of human error, which improves the quality, security, greater plasticity and ultimately, better experience, especially for your non employees. Absolutely. All right, so we are closing up this particular moment I want Thank you very much for coming down to our Pallotta studio is part of our coverage on Peter Boris. And we've been talking to the scanner amidst, huh? Thank you very much. And back to Dio Cube.