>>Hey, welcome to the cubes coverage of splunk.com 21. I'm licensed Lisa Martin here. I've got some in Demis with me, a VP in APAC at Splunk Simon. Welcome to the program. >>So here we are, unfortunately at another virtual conference, but there has been a tremendous amount of there's an understatement, right? That we've seen in the last 18 months. We've seen this massive distribution of the workforce. We've seen huge increases in the threat landscape. We've seen things like solar winds, ransomware, increasing significantly acceleration and digital transformation. As companies tried to do whatever they could to enable digital workspaces. I wanted to unpack with you, uh, this 20, 21 state of security report that Splunk has. What are some of the key findings? And then we'll dig into some of the things that you're seeing in the APAC region. >>Yeah, look, we're excited about the report. It really highlighted, I think what a lot of organizations are going through. Um, one of the statistics that stood out for me was, um, 75% of infrastructure users are multi-cloud, but expecting to get that these expecting to increase to 87% of customers will be using multicloud environments. So the reason why that's important is the complexity that creates, uh, for cyber professionals in terms of trying to protect and defend, um, becomes exponentially harder with every new iteration or generation of infrastructure that companies consume. Um, most interesting. Um, we actually saw about a third of users or already using three cloud providers, but that is going to grow to 50% of, of customers will grow to being using three cloud providers or more within the next two years. So again, just that, that trend is going to continue. Uh, the leveraging of cloud infrastructures is a core way of businesses digitizing and modernizing. Um, and as cyber professionals, we have to think about how we're going to address that. >>Definitely. One of the things that I've been seeing and hearing in the last 18 months from a security perspective is that organizations say, you know, it's, it's really not a matter of if we get hit with ransomware, it's when, and I was really surprised to see the, that the state of security report found that 70% of security and it leaders worry they're going to be hit by a solar winds style attack. So the security landscape changing dramatically in the last 18 months. >>Yeah, absolutely. I think the, the, the research is feeding back what we were already hearing from the customers, um, around how this is a critical, uh, motion. And I think the one thing that we've seen as well as the board level agenda now, the risk and cyber has, and, uh, an organization's ability to react or recover. Um, when you have an, an event, um, is now becoming a high priority for organizations, we're seeing a lot of increased spending in cybersecurity as this becomes more and more, um, pretty for organizations for breasts. So yeah, the, the, on the ground experiences certainly matching what we're seeing in the research there. Um, and all of that is a data problem, right? Security is a data problem when something happens, how do I, how do I know? Where, how do I know when, how do I know what, and then how do I know what actions to take based upon the data that we need to get? >>So security being a data problem talked about the complexity of the multi-cloud environments, that percentages of organizations that are adopting that now what that trend is moving towards. Also complexity, I can imagine with data volumes only increasing, what are some of the key challenges that APAC organizations specifically are seeing as they are accelerating digital transformation and doing what they can to enable this distributed workforce? >>Yeah. So, so the hybrid multicloud environment you use, I guess, an indicator of increased complexity, I think we often overlook the fact that I think the hybrid world is here to stay as well. So nobody is a hundred percent cloud and nobody's a hundred percent on prem anymore. It's very much an environment now where I need to, um, I need to protect and defend across that entire surface area and increasingly with edge computing. Um, and as we're looking at, uh, organizations pushing, processing out to the edge of their, um, their operations and whether that's a distributed workforce or sensor-based environments, um, that becomes critical as well. We've got organizations like Intel, uh, that use us to basically monitor not only the cyber infrastructure, but the entire customer infrastructure that they're providing the fabric by census of course, environments, where you can imagine that the security becomes even more important. >>So I think that complexity and the data sources that are now being generated and the explosion of that is, is kind of critical. Um, for apex specifically, we saw some interesting trends we saw about 37% of organizations are using data to now support the compliance environments. Um, about 36% are bringing in non-security data. Um, and about 36%, it really started to use AI or machine learning tools to help them in that, that large scale data volume processing, um, that they weren't able to do before. And then lastly, security analytics really is starting to become, uh, a critical tool in the arsenal of cyber professionals with 34% of organizations saying they're already using some form of security analytics to help them address the threat actors. >>Is there a silver lining in terms of the it folks and the security folks becoming better collaborating better? Anything that you've seen in this report? >>Uh, well in the report, but also in the way that we're seeing SOC organizations use tools. Um, so, uh, the orchestration remediation and automation is a big industry trend, particularly when you look at things like implementing zero trust and how you would use that for, um, putting that additional layer of protection around an organization. Um, and that's where the ability to identify using machine learning or AI, uh, trends or events, understand the actions that need to be taken, understand the data sources that help address and remediate those and be able to automate that frees up the time and cyber security professionals. Um, and that's a critical step we're seeing because there's a shortage of skills and that's been an ongoing challenge, not only in Asia Pacific, but I think worldwide, >>Right. It has been a challenge worldwide. I was actually doing some cyber security work in the last month or so. And I read that this is the fifth consecutive year of that cybersecurity skills gap. So definitely a challenge there, but also if you flip the coin and opportunity. So in terms of some of those challenges that you mentioned, what are some of the key things that organizations and APAC can do to confront and combat those security challenges that are no doubt just only going to grow? >>Yeah, so I think, I think it's about, um, visibility, uh, and getting control, uh, and that's where again, data becomes key to that. So making sure you're capturing the right data, making sure that data is available, um, to your professionals, or if you're using a service provider, making sure that data is captured and available to the service providers, because that is increasingly what we see as the critical step to be able to, when something happens, how do you recover what your meantime to remediation, um, as, as the kind of critical motion. And so that's, again, what we could coming back to is security is a data problem. >>Security is a data problem. Got it. I do want to, uh, unpack a little bit some of the visibility challenges. That is one of the things that was identified. You mentioned that with so much complexity, multi-cloud being, uh, as, as hybrid work, something that's going to stay, what are some of the things that organizations can do and how can Splunk help to remove and mitigate those visibility challenges? >>So we've we just another interesting piece of research, um, it's called the state of data innovation report. Um, that really looked at the way organizations that categorize that data and organizations that actually build a data strategy, um, are actually much more prepared to react, uh, to engage and then to leverage that data for competitive differentiation in their markets. Um, and interestingly 33% of APAC organizations particularly rated their usage of data as better, uh, than, um, the industry average. Um, and 54% of APAC organizations already said they're using technologies like observability, which really helps them innovate around the data. Thinking about that next generation of service they're trying to provide. >>Did you see those are great numbers? It's about a third, um, are, are working on implementing technologies 54% were focused on that observability. Did you see any industries in particular that really leading edge there? Of course, every industry being affected by the pandemic, but I'm just curious if there were any, any ones that stood out >>So many great customer examples that we've got, uh, where we see organizations thinking differently about the way they engage their customers as a result of the digital transformation. Um, for me, one of the ones that stands out is Lenovo, um, you know, 50 billion plus multinational company servicing 180 markets around the world, um, when they looked at their observability approach and tried to understand how they were going to approach troubleshooting, um, when they had issues, if you think about the e-commerce experience for their consumers, um, they were able to reduce the, uh, reduce the downtime, um, and improve, um, the remediation time when there were incidents, uh, even though they had a 300% increase in traffic. And so for the ability for an organization to handle that kind of surge in digital, uh, interactions with their customers and do that to have clear visibility, using metrics, traces, and logs, to understanding exactly what's going on across complex, siloed multi, uh, services, uh, environments was, was critical to the Novo success. And, um, you know, not only from a cybersecurity point of view, but also having real time visibility into their infrastructure became critical as they service their customers. >>Right? One of the things I think we learned Simon during the pandemic, one of the many things is that access to real-time data real-time visibility real time, rather than visibility is no longer a nice to have it's. It was something that in the beginning was sort of organizations needing it to survive. Now organizations needing it to thrive it's that, that real-time visibility is really table stakes for organizations in any industry. >>W we, we kind of saw organizations go through three phases. There was the react phase. Then there was the adapt phase. So, you know, reacting was, first of all, kind of keep my people safe. The adapt phase was how am I going to work? And now we're seeing that next generation, which is really the evolve phase, right? Given the pandemic is still well COVID is still with us. Um, whether it's your, most of the countries, which are treating it more as an endemic or whether you're on the number of the countries still on that journey. And you're in Asia Pacific, we see different levels of, of vaccination status, different levels of, uh, companies starting to open up or countries starting to open up their borders and, um, life getting back to the, what is the new normal, um, all of that is still gonna evolve with a different way of working, moving forward, a different way of engaging our customers and our, our, uh, constituents, if you're a public sector, organization and data is underlying all of that. And for that, where we're kind of excited to be helping some of the largest organizations with that across, across the region, >>Did it is absolutely critical. You know, one of the things that we've also, I think observed in the last year and a half is the, the patients or the fuses of people getting smaller and smaller. So for organizations to have that visibility into data so that they can service their customers, whether it be healthcare or financial services or the tech sector for, for example, the access to that data is critical for brand reputation, reducing churn. And of course, ensuring that the customers are getting what they need to from that data. >>Yeah. A hundred percent. Um, gosh, so many examples across the region. One of the ones that jumps to mind is Flinders university, right? When, when they had to go remote, they had to go virtual, um, 25,000 students overnight, um, suddenly needing to be interacting by digital channels. How do you keep them secure? How do you keep them safe? How do you get insights, uh, in terms of the services that they need to, to protect that student population? >>So if you, if you kind of distill this down into data opportunities for organizations, we'll start with APAC, what do you think the top three data opportunities are of security as a data problem? What are the opportunities to combat that for an organization to be really successful? >>So I think, I think visibility is the first one. So making sure we're capturing the data, making sure we're capturing the right data. Um, and so the ability, uh, not only to capture the data, but to time sequence the data so I can actually understand what's happened. And when, um, the second then is, is, uh, control. Um, so ensuring that the right people have access to the right data, but we, we control that in a way that is specific to our organization. Um, and then lastly compliance. Um, and I think we're seeing a lot of new legislation starts coming around critical infrastructure, um, recognizing the importance of the digital infrastructure to the broader economy, um, and making sure that you're compliant with that critical infrastructure kind of requirements and environments as well as then the traditional regulated industries such as healthcare and financial services, um, become critical in that approach. So thinking about those three elements, and then thinking about how do I then use tools like automation and security analytics to really accelerate, um, the capabilities that we have as an organization. >>So observability control compliance, give me the 32nd pitch of how Splunk can help organizations achieve all three of those. >>So observability really is about getting insights into all of your environments. So, uh, it's all about metrics, traces and logs, which is about understanding exactly what's going on with every experience of every digital interaction I have with every customer and the ability to Splunk through that with zero, uh, zero sampling or full fidelity of that data is something we see our customers, particularly Navy, um, security, uh, look for me to it's all about orchestration and analytics. So how do I, how do I get that understanding that, that user behavior understanding the analytics around that, and then how machine learning becomes a critical part of that to help me scale my cyber infrastructure and defend. And then lastly resilience is really the core for all it systems in a digital world. Um, and being able to not only harden deliver resilient services like going over, I was able to do the 300% increase in their web traffic. Um, but also when something does go wrong and be able to remediate quickly become critical as well. >>Right? That quick remediation is because, like I was saying earlier, it's no longer a, if we get hit it's when organizations need to have that resilience baked in. Well, Simon, thank you for joining me, breaking down. Some of those reports what's going on in APAC, some of the trends and also some of the opportunities, security being a data problem, um, and organizations, what they can do to remediate that we appreciate your time. Thanks for having my pleasure for Simon Davies and Lisa Martin. You're watching the cubes coverage of splunk.com 21.

why from Las Vegas it's the cube covering informatica world 2018 bacio by inform Attica hey welcome back it runs the cubes exclusive coverage of informatica world 2018 we're here at the Venetian in Las Vegas live I'm John for your co-host with Peterborough's coasting and head of analyst said we keep on insulating all the cube our next guest is jammed the dalla who's the enterprise analytics architecture engineer sire pharmaceutical and some named director of the enterprise analytic solutions lead at sire as well great to have you guys thanks for joining us thank you so love getting the practitioner view of kind of the reality right of what's going on off see dramatic has their show you guys are a customer you're looking at some of their products take a minute first to talk about what you guys do first see Pharma got some stuff going on Davies involved privacy's involves you're in Europe in the u.s. GDP ours here think I'm gonna talk about what you guys do sure so char Pharmaceuticals is a global leader in rare diseases so there's about 350 million patients who are effective remedies is today and so art group with NIT enterprise analytics so we're focused on making sure we bring the right technologies and capabilities around bi and analytics to the organization so we look at products tools figure out how they fit into our our ecosystem of bi stack of tools and make that available to our RIT colleagues as well as our business colleagues so rare disease can you just explain kind of categorically what that is cuz I'm assuming this fits rare is not a lot of data on it or there's data you got to figure out what is that how do you guys categorize that so rare disease you know majority the rare disease affected by affected children so that's a kind of a critical aspect of what we do you know rare disease could be in immunology it could be in oncology GI I mean there's very disease typically you know people who are affected affected probably less than a thousand or 2,000 I think one of our drugs the population is around 5,000 people and these are chronic diseases typically their chronic diseases so they're they're they're diseases that affect the quality of life of an individual so what you guys are doing is identifying what is it about the genealogy etc the genome associated with the disease but then providing treatments that will allow especially kids an opportunity to have live a better life over extensive time yeah and what do you guys do there in terms the data side can you explain what your roles are yeah so like I said we're you're in the enterprise analytics so we're focused on bringing technologies and capabilities around bi and analytics spaces so how do we bring data in and ingest it how do we curate the data how do we do if data visualizations how do we do data discovery advanced analytics so all of those kind of capabilities and we're responsible for so what's your architecture today you have some on premises their cloud involved you just kind of lay out kind of the environment as much as you can share I know maybe some confidential information but for the most part what's the current landscape internally for you guys what are you dealing with the data sure so we fill out a new a new next generation analytics we called it our marketplace or the analytics marketplace we're leveraging both on Prem as well as cloud technologies so we're leveraging Microsoft Azure hdinsight for Hadoop the Big Data technologies as well as informatica for data ingestion and bringing data and transform or transforming yet but there are many tools involved in that one so it's like the whole ecosystem we call does marketplace which is backbone for shared enterprise analytics strategy and future you guys put a policy around what tools people can bring to work so to speak and we're seeing a proliferation of tools there's a tool vendor everywhere we look around the big data it's right I got a tool for this I got a tool for wrangling I've seen everything how do you guys deal with that onslaught of tools coming in do you guys look at it more from a platform respective how are you guys handling that right so look at a platform perspective and we try to bring tools in and make that a standard within the organization we look at you know the security is it enterprise grade technology and yeah it's a challenge I mean they're basically certified you kick the tires give it a pace test through its paces and then we have our own operations team so we can support that that tool set the platform itself so and what are your customers do with the data they doing self service or they data scientists are they like just business analysts what's the profile of the users of your customers of your we have all set of users they have like a technical folks which they want to use the data like traditional ETL reality so there are folks from the business they want to do like self-serve and unless they want to do analysis on the data so we have all the capabilities in our marketplace so some tools enable those guys to get the data for the selves or like the tools we have and dalibor does their own stuff like the eld talk a little bit about the one of the key challenges associated with pharmaceuticals especially in the types of rare disease chronic young people types of things that you guys are mainly focused on a big challenge has always been that people when they start taking a drug that can significantly improve their lives they start to feel better and when they start to feel better they stop taking it so how are you using big data to or using analytics to identify people help describe potential treatments for them help keep them on the regimen how do you do are you first of all are you doing those things and as you do it how are you ensuring that you are compliant with basic ethical and privacy laws and what types of tools are you using to do that it's a big question yeah yeah so we are doing some of that you know we have looked at things around persistence and adherence and understanding kind of you know what what combination of drugs may work best for certain individuals or groups of people yeah and definitely you know some compliance is a big factor in that so when I'm working close with a compliance group understanding how we're allowed to use that data in between which parts of the organization do you anticipate that you'll have a direct relationship as some of these customers or is there an optimist in other words does analytics provide you an opportunity to start to alter the way that you engage the core users of your products and services like I believe so you know I think one thing that we're looking at which strategic standpoint is um how do we diagnose people sooner a lot of these chronic diseases you know they go through 2-3 years of undiagnosed so they'll jump around from you know doctor a doctor if I understand what you know what the issue is so I think one thing we're looking at is how do we use data and AI to to more quickly be able to diagnose patients has a 360 view helped you guys of data you guys have a 360 view how do you cuz we'll look at that in terms of a channel selling a product and serving because we have a different perspective what's the 360 view benefit that you guys are getting yeah so we have a kind of a customer care model which is kind of a 360 for our customer so understanding you know around just drug manufacturing to making sure they have the right you know they have the right supply to understand is it working for the patient's so we've always been talking about the role a big day you mentioned had to do that Hadoop supposed to be this whole industry now it's a feature of data right so there's a variety of you know infrastructure as a service platform as a service some say I pass and Big Data how are you guys looking at that as as as builders of IT next-generation IT the role of I pass and Big Data we see it as a role in a blur you know I think what cloud brings us in the past type solutions is agility you know we as the market is so evolving so quickly and there's new versions of new software coming out so quickly that you wanna be able to embrace that and leverage that give it benefit of like give it some sort of a comparison old way versus a cloud like is there been some immediate benefits that just pop out yeah that a lot more benefits with doing the world way and the cloud way because with the cloud that brings a lot more scalability in in all India's to get like 10 servers you need to work with the infrastructure team I get it like it takes three months or two months again it with the cloud based one you've worked out you can scale up or scale down so that's one thing because it's so you're talking about Big Data yeah you're getting the volume of data you're getting you need to scale up your storage or your any compute you either JMS and compute bring data to the table and then you gotta have the custom tooling for the visualization yeah how that kind of together right you talk about them from your perspective the balance that you have to have guys have to deal with every day like you got to deal with the current situation NIT you got cloud you got an electrical customers personas of people using the product but you got to stay in the cutting edge it's like what's next cuz we going down the cloud road you're looking at containers kubernetes service meshes you need a lot more stuff coming down the pike if you will coming down the road for you guys how are you guys looking at that and how are you managing it you have some greenfield projects do you do a little you know Rd you integrated in how are you dealing with this new cloud native set of technologies yeah definitely a balancing act you know I think we do a lot of pocs and we actually work with our business and IT counterparts to see hey if there's a new use case that is coming down you know how do we solve that use case with some of the newer technologies and we try a POC may bring in a product to just see if it works and then see how do we then do we then take that to the enterprise so I got one final question for you guys and maybe you do as well John but but in life and death businesses like pharmaceuticals is a life and death business the quality of the data is really really important getting it wrong has major implications the fidelity of the system is really crucial you say using informatica for for example ingest and other types of services how has that choice made the business feel more certain about the quality of their data that you're using in your analytic systems into standardization so you know if between MDM round mastering our data - ingesting data transforming our data just having that data lineage having that standard around how that data gets transformed is that fundamentally a feature of the services that you're providing is you not only were you you know the ability to do visualization on data but actually providing your scientists and your businesspeople and your legal staff explicit knowledge about where this data came from and how trustworthy it is and whether they should be making these kind of free complex very real hardcore human level decisions on is that is that all helping yes because it seems like it would be a really crucial determination of what tools you guys would use right it is yeah and absolutely I think also as we move more towards self-service and having these people having data scientists do their things on their own being able to have the tools that can do that kind of audit and data lineage is crucial great to have you guys on we had a wrap I want to ask one more question here you guys were an innovation award e informática congratulations any advice for your peers out there want to unleash the power data and be on the cutting edge and potentially be an honoree yeah I would say just definitely think outside the box seem to try new things try puce you know do POCs is there so much new technologies coming down so quickly that it's hard to keep up Jam cuz it's like a moving target you need to chase your movie target and based on B was it that gets you like what you want it to do you know siding yeah get out front don't keep your eye on the prize yeah focus on task at hand bring in the new technologies guys thanks so much for coming on great to hear the practitioners reality from the trenches certainly front lines you know life-or-death situations of quality of the data matter scaling is important cloud era of data I'm John for a Peterborough's more live coverage after the short break

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live from Barcelona, Spain. it's The Cube covering Cisco Live 2018. Brought to you by Cisco, Veeam, and The Cube's Ecosystem Partner. (upbeat music) (people chatting in background) >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. This is The Cube exclusive coverage live in Barcelona, Spain, for Cisco Live 2018 in Europe. I'm John Furrier, the co-founder and co-host of The Cube here all week, two days of live wall-to-wall coverage in the DevNet Zone where all the action's at. It's the biggest story at Cisco Live is the impact of the DevNet and the developer network that's been growing leaps and bounds. Of course, we covered DevNet Create earlier last year, which is a Cloud Native event. Kind of bring in two communities together from Cisco and of course, we can't talk about developers without talking about experiences that developers need and want and expect and also, you know, how to operate in those environments. We have two great guests. Mandy Whaley's been on before, The Cube Alumni Director of Developer Experiences at Cisco, and Tom Davies, who's the Senior Manager of the DevNet Sandbox. Welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Good to see you again. >> Excited to be here. Yeah, good to see you, too. >> So congratulations. >> DevNet is again booming. It's the hot part of the show. It's one of the top stories here in Barcelona. >> Yes. >> It's been great. Our workshops, where we're doing the hands-on coding, have been extremely full even early in the morning and late into the evening, and it's great to see people really diving in, laptops open, getting their hands on, and doing some coding. >> That's great stuff, congratulations. And, you know, the Sandbox is interesting because now you guys are completely open. Love the motto: learn, code, inspire, and connect. That's the motto here. You got to have a place for people to do this. >> You do. >> What is this Sandbox thing that you guys are rollin' out? It's pretty interesting. >> Yeah, so the Sandbox is completely open to everyone, and the idea behind it is if you like, if you can go to developer.cisco.com/sandbox, you can hit our catalog and start playing with our technology within minutes by just clicking on the technology you want to cover. We'll spin you up that environment, and you can start playing it as a developer really quite quickly. >> Alright, take me through a progression example, because let's just say I hit that website, developer.cisco.com/sandbox, >> Yeah. what do I do? I mean, what are people doing? Is it like, you know, Hello World or what are they coding? What are they learning? I mean, what's goin' on there? >> It just depends on the technology that they choose. So we go to developer.cisco.com/sandbox, hit Catalog, it comes out with a bunch of titles, and in that catalog, you can choose Networking, you could choose Security, you could choose Data Center, Cloud, Open Source, any different technology that that developer might be interested in or want to integrate into, and then from there they click on that title and say, "Right, I want to reserve say APIC-EM. "I'm interested in Networking and control of Networking." From there, we spin that environment up for them, completely secure, send them the details of how it's connect, they connect to it, and then they are free to start coding within minutes on, say, a APIC-EM controller solution, figure out what the latest release provides them, >> Yeah. how they integrate into it, and how they can start innovatin' in a really easy way over the top. >> So they can, it's a playground. They can do mash-ups. >> It's a playground, yeah. >> It is. >> I can sling API's around, test stuff, break stuff. >> If they're breaking somethin', they're probably doin' something right so we encourage it. >> Yeah (laughs) >> Yeah. >> It's brilliant. >> Yeah. >> The other thing that's really cool about the Sandbox is that Tom takes a lot of time and care to make sure we put together fully, you know, environments where you can actually build things with the Cisco gear plus open source projects that are relevant to those pieces of the Cisco technology portfolio, so it's not just the environment. It's sample code, it's open source you can use, it's traffic generations, it's really a full working environment. >> Yeah, that brings up a good point I wanted to ask you, as we had some other guests on. We couldn't get to it. You're startin' to see with Kubernetes and well, first docker containers and now all containers. Really interesting. I mean, Red Hat just bought CoreOS yesterday. >> Yeah, yeah. >> It's big news. >> They did, they did. >> Big news, yeah. >> In Europe, you miss all the action. The State of the Union. (Tom laughs). >> I know. >> It was a big story on the New York Times on Sunday. I'm like, "Ah, I'm missin' all the late news." But that's a signal. Containers are commoditized. You're seeing that be the now abstraction layer for moving work loads around and program around it. >> We do. >> Kubernetes gives an orchestration opportunity that now allows you to bring this service mesh concept to the table. >> It does. >> This is becoming a really interesting developer dream, because now I could provision >> Yes. microservices and start doing network services with those microservice at the app layer. >> Yeah. >> This to me is a really, really big trend. I know you guys have kind of quietly put it out there, a term called "Net DevOps," >> Yes. which I think will be a very big thing. >> Yep. (Mandy laughs) >> Because it's DevOps the whole stack. >> It is. >> That's right, yeah. >> But really usin' the network more, so for the people who are power users of network services, this could become a very big DevOps movement. >> Yes, yes. >> Can you explain this concept of the Net DevOps, and does that relate to like SDO and some of the service mesh stuff out there? What's your-- >> Yeah, do you want to start with service mesh and then I'll dive into the lower parts or, yeah? >> We can do that. >> Go for it. >> Jump right in. >> Yeah. >> Share the information. >> Yeah, sure. >> The term service mesh is actually fairly new, and it's common because as people use microservices more, their understandin' that they just perforate like crazy, and it's actually really quite hard to understand which microservices talk to which microservices, are they doin' it securely? Are they within policy? Are they talkin' to the right thing? And that's where SDO comes in. It's really providin' a proxy for that traffic so you can easily talk between microservice A and microservice B, understand it, see observability between that traffic, and then control that traffic, and SDO is takin' really the abstraction away, takin' the pain away from that huge service. >> Just talk about the quantify that time savings, because this is like, I think this really kind of was the minds get blown. That example you just laid out, without that, what would you have to do? I have to build a proxy, I have to test it. >> You do. >> I mean, just take me through it. >> Yeah. The comparisons A to B. >> Well, normally when you have >> Real quick. a microservice, you probably have about 15 other services around them all. Like if you had a ton of microservices, you probably have 15 different subserving services around it. With SDO, it takes 15 away so you don't have to manage or operate all those, and it brings you down to one, and that's really super key, 'cause it makes it so much easier to deal with microservices >> Yeah. then to bail them out. >> And then I boil it down, and then I tell people when Amazon launched Lambda, which essentially the serverless trend, 'cause they're always >> Yeah. just services. Never really serverless. (Mandy laughs) I know the Cisco people debate this all the time, and now there's, it's true. This server's behind it. >> Of course. They just take this abstraction away. They're really enabling this notion of a mindset for the developer where this gets into the user experience, user expectation. >> Right. >> Yes. >> If I want infrastructure as a code and I don't want to dive into the network services, I want the one not the 15 to deal with. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> I'm essentially programming the infrastructure at that point, so this is a big, effin' deal. >> This is a big deal, >> It is. and then even what we're seeing is that the expectations are set by DevOps practices, and now that our network devices are opening up APIs, and we have the really strong assurance and analytics pieces that we saw in the Cisco keynotes, we can extend those DevOps concepts to managing network devices. So something very traditional, networking task, like out of VLAN. Let's say you want to do that, but you want to do that in a network as code manner. So you want to take that through a build pipeline, something that would be familiar to a developer or somebody who manages their infrastructure in a DevOps way, but now you can do it for a networking device. And you can take it through build and test just like you would code, and all of your network configurations are source controlled so you have your version control around it, and that's a big mind shift for the network developers. But in DevNet, we have the application developers, the ops engineers, and the net workers, and then what we're tryin' to do is share those practices across because that's the only way we'll get to the scale, the consistency, the level of automation that we need. >> Alright, so here's a question for you guys. Put you on the spot. DevOps has been great. It's going mainstream. Some are called CloudOps, whatever, but DevOps is great, great movement. >> Yes. >> That's been goin' on for a while, you know. Hey. >> Yeah. You know, pat each other on the back. (Mandy laughs) But DevOps means automation. >> Yes, yes. >> Right? >> And the old rule is you got to do it twice automated. This scares people. So what is being automated away in the Net DevOps model? >> So I wouldn't know that it's being automated away, but the idea is that is if we're managing infrastructure, traditionally you would do it in a sequential and manual way, right? But we need to do it in a parallel and automated way. So moving towards that automation helps us do that. I think we see some network engineers who think, "I have to learn a lot of new skills to do this." >> Mm-hmm. >> And that is true, but you don't have to be the level of an application developer who's writing applications to do some automation and scripting, and DevNet's really working to put the tools out there to lead them down that path and get them moving in that direction. It's also a little bit more, I mean, DevOps is definitely the automation in the tools. There's also the culture of bringing Dev and Ops together. So the same thing happens there as well. >> Totally agree, and also the process as well, repeatability in what we're doin'. So once you've done one >> Yes. and that process works for you, you can repeat that process for the next set of configuration you're deploying. >> Yeah, definitely. >> What's interesting. >> Super slick. >> Rowan showed on stage the future titles of what it'll be like in 2030 or 2050. I forget which year it was. >> Yes, yes. I joked, it says the LinkedIn on that. Might not even be around, might be around then, either. (Mandy laughs) This is a new field, right? >> Yes. >> And successful companies, the ethos was hire the smartest person because the jobs that are coming haven't been invented yet, so there's no right experience there. So this kind of reminds me of what's going on with DevOps where, you know, Network guys, they're not dumb. I mean, they're smart, right? >> Super smart. >> You know? >> Yeah. >> And it used to be that you were the rock star if you ran the network. >> That's right, that's right. >> Okay, now the rock stars are more the app developers and the developers on the Dev Op side. So these would be easy, and we're seeing that it's easy for those guys to jump in to some of these coding and/or agile mindsets. >> Yes. >> 'Cause they are gunslingers, they are rock stars. >> They are, it's incredible how fast they're picking it up. I mean, they are, just from the ones that we met from last year to this year who were here came to like their first coding class. This year they're here, and they're like, "Oh yeah, I totally get this build pipeline. "I'm doing this in my organization." We're seeing 'em pick it up incredibly fast. >> And so they obviously see a path to other jobs. What patterns are you guys seeing in terms of things that they're doing on the Sandbox and/or some of the user expectations that they have as they're now fresh, young, or/and middle age >> Yeah. or old students >> Right? in the new world. What are some of the patterns? >> Yeah. >> What are they kickin' tires on? What's the, what are they gravitating towards? >> Everythin', but they yeah, literally everythin', but they're always like quite interested in containers and what's happenin' in the container world and how that applies >> Yes. to networkin', especially because as we touched on it earlier, there's a lot of networkin' to be had in the container world, and it's not just one layer of (mumbles) of the service mesh. There's also virtualization layers, there's like abstracted policy layers. There's a good few layers of networkin' that you need to know and really understand to be able to get into, so that's one real trend that the network guys >> Yes. really are jumpin' on, and so they should, because they're great at it. >> Yeah, I would add to that. Like I've been seeing, you know, in different conversations I have with people who are coming from the appDev side or the Op side and saying, "Wow, I'm really good at containers. "I can build apps and containers all day." And then they get into it, and they're like, "The networking part of containers is hard. "There's a lot to learn." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so I definitely see a lot of activity around both sides coming together around, "How do we really make that work?" >> And the bottom line is is that this whole "Your job's going away" is ridiculous because this really proves that there is so much job security in DevOps it's ridiculous. >> There's more devices per engineer to be managed then ever before, so it's really just you have to have the automation to even keep up, right? >> Yeah, it's quite funny, actually, because I come from a very much a software centered background, and networkin' to me was black magic. You had to know so much stuff in the networking order, it used to scare the hell out of me, but I had to go down into the network layer to start understandin' it to do a better job of software >> Well, you was locked down. and I'm seein' the reverse. >> I mean, you had perimeter-base security, (Tom laughs) and you had very inflexible configuration management things. You were just >> Yeah. really locked down. >> That's right. Now agile and dyanmic >> And then we're seein'. adaptive, and these are the words that are described. And now add IoT to the mix. You guys had the Black Hat, you know, IoT booth here, >> Yes. which is phenomenal. >> Yes. It's only going to increase the edge of the network, which is not new to Cisco. >> Definitely. Cisco knows the edge. >> That's right. So it's going to be interesting to see that going forward. >> Yeah. >> Definitely. >> And that's one of our sandboxes. We have a sandbox where developers can practice taking docker containers and deploying them into Edge Compute in our routers, and that's one that's really popular and gets a lot of-- >> It's incredibly popular. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Mandy and Tom, thanks for comin' on The Cube. Really appreciate, great to see you again. >> Yeah, thank you so much. >> Congratulations on all your success. Go kick on the tires of the Sandbox. >> It's all down to Mandy. >> Yeah. >> You guys did a great job. >> DevNet developer network for Cisco here, and of course DevNet created in separate small, boutique-event small, for the Cloud Native World. You want to check that out. Well, the Cube will be there this year. This is The Cube live coverage. I'm John Furrier, stay tuned for more of day 2, exclusive Cisco Live 2018 in Europe. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)