>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel and AWS. Yeah, husband. Welcome back to the cubes. Live coverage of AWS reinvent 2020. We're not in person this year. We're virtual This is the Cube Virtual. I'm John for your host of the Cube. Roger Barker, the General Manager AWS Robotics and Autonomous Service. And a lot of other cool stuff was on last year. Always. Speed Racer. You got the machines. Now you have real time Robotics hitting, hitting seen Andy Jassy laid out a huge vision and and data points and announcements around Industrial this I o t it's kind of coming together. Roger, great to see you. And thanks for coming on. I want to dig in and get your perspective. Thanks for joining the Cube. >>Good to be here with you again today. >>Alright, so give us your take on the announcements yesterday and how that relates to the work that you're doing on the robotic side at a w s. And where where does this go from? You know, fun to real world to societal impact. Take us through. What? You how you see that vision? >>Yeah, sure. So we continue to see the story of how processing is moving to the edge and cloud services, or augmenting that processing at the edge with unique and new services. And he talked about five new industrial machine learning services yesterday, which are very relevant to exactly what we're trying to do with AWS robot maker. Um, a couple of them monitor on, which is for equipment monitoring for anomalies. And it's a whole solution, from an edge device to a gateway to a service. But we also heard about look out for equipment, which is if a customer already has their own censors. It's a service that can actually back up that that sensor on their on the device to actually get identify anomalies or potential failures. And we saw look out for video, which allows customers to actually use their camera and and build a service to detect anomalies and potential failures. When A. W s robot maker, we have Ross Cloud Service extensions, which allow developers to connect their robot to these services and so increasingly, that combination of being able to put sensors and processing at the edge, connecting it back with the cloud where you could do intelligent processing and understand what's going on out in the environment. So those were exciting announcements. And that story is going to continue to unfold with new services. New sensors we can put on our robots to again intelligently process the data and control these robots and industrial settings. >>You know, this brings up a great point. And, you know, I wasn't kidding. Was saying fun to real world. I mean, this is what's happening. Um, the use cases air different. You look at you mentioned, um, you know, monitor on lookout. But those depend Panorama appliance. You had computer vision, machine learning. I mean, these are all new, cool, relevant use cases, but they're not like static. It's not like you're going to see them. Just one thing is like the edge has very diverse and sometimes mostly purpose built for the edge piece. So it's not like you could build a product. Okay, fits everywhere. Talk about that dynamic and why the robotics piece has to be agile. And what do you guys doing to make that workable? Because, you know, you want purpose built. The purpose built implies supply chain years. in advance. It implies slow and you know, how do you get the trust? How do you get the security? Take us through that, please. >>So to your point, um, no single service is going to solve all problems, which is why AWS has has released a number of just primitives. Just think about Kinesis video or Aiken. Stream my raw video from an edge device and build my own machine learning model in the cloud with sage maker that will process that. Or I could use recognition. So we give customers these basic building blocks. But we also think about working customer backward. What is the finished solution that we could give a customer that just works out of the box? And the new services we heard about we heard about yesterday were exactly in that latter category. Their purpose built. They're ready to be used or trained for developers to use and and with very little customization that necessary. Um, but the point is, is that is that these customers that are working these environments, the business questions change all the time, and so they need actually re program a robot on the fly, for example, with a new mission to address the new business need that just arose is a dynamic, which we've been very tuned into since we first started with a device robo maker. We have a feature for a fleet management, which allows a developer to choose any robot that's out in their fleet and take the software stack a new software stack tested in simulation and then redeploy it to that robot so it changes its mission. And this is a This is a dialogue we've been seeing coming up over the last year, where roboticists are starting to educate their company that a robot is a device that could be dynamically program. At any point in time, they contest their application and simulation while the robots out in the field verify it's gonna work correctly and simulation and then change the mission for that robot. Dynamically. One of my customers they're working with Woods Hole Institute is sending autonomous underwater robots out into the ocean to monitor wind farms, and they realized the mission may change may change based on what they find out. If the wind farm with the equipment with their autonomous robot, the robot itself may encounter an issue and that ability because they do have connective ity to change the mission dynamically. First Testament, of course, in simulation is completely changing the game for how they think about robots no longer a static program at once, and have to bring it back in the shop to re program it. It's now just this dynamic entity that could test and modify it any time. >>You know, I'm old enough to know how hard that really is to pull off. And this highlights really kind of how exciting this is, E. I mean, just think about the idea of hardware being dynamically updated with software in real time and or near real time with new stacks. I mean, just that's just unheard of, you know, because purpose built has always been kind of you. Lock it in, you deploy it. You send the tech out there this kind of break fixed kind of mindset. Let's changes everything, whether it's space or underwater. You've been seeing everything. It's software defined, software operated model, so I have to ask you First of all, that's super awesome. Anyway, what's this like for the new generation? Because Andy talked on stage and in in my one On one way I had with him. He talked about, um, and referring to land in some of these new things. There's a new generation of developer. So you gotta look at these young kids coming out of school to them. They don't understand what how hard this is. They just look at it as lingua frank with software defined stuff. So can you share some of the cutting edge things that are coming out of these new new the new talent or the new developers? Uh, I'm sure the creativity is off the charts. Can you share some cool, um, use cases? Share your perspective? >>Absolutely. I think there's a couple of interesting cases to look at. One is, you know, roboticists historically have thought about all the processing on the robot. And if you say cloud and cloud service, they just couldn't fathom that reality that all the processing has cannot has to be, you know, could be moved off of the robot. Now you're seeing developers who are looking at the cloud services that we're launching and our cloud service extensions, which give you a secure connection to the cloud from your robot. They're starting to realize they can actually move some of that processing off the robot that could lower the bomb or the building materials, the cost of the robot. And they can have this dynamic programming surface in the cloud that they can program and change the behavior of the robot. So that's a dialogue we've seen coming over the last couple years, that rethinking of where the software should live. What makes sense to run on the robot? And what should we push out to the cloud? Let alone the fact that if you're aggregating information from hundreds of robots, you can actually build machine learning models that actually identify mistakes a single robot might make across the fleet and actually use that insight to actually retrain the models. Push new applications down, pushing machine learning models down. That is a completely different mindset. It's almost like introducing distributed computing to roboticists that you actually think this fabric of robots and another, more recent trend we're seeing that were listening very closely to customers is the ability to use simulation and machine learning, specifically reinforcement. Learning for a robot actually try different tasks up because simulations have gotten so realistic with the physics engines and the rendering quality that is almost nearly realistic for a camera. The physics are actually real world physics, so that you can put a simulation of your robot into a three D simulated world and allow it to bumble around and make mistakes while trying to perform the task that you frankly don't know how to write the code for it so complex and through reinforcement, learning, giving rewards signals if it does something right or punishment or negative rewards signals. If it does something wrong, the machine learning algorithm will learn to perform navigation and manipulation tasks, which again the programmer simply didn't have to write a line of code for other than creating the right simulation in the right set of trials >>so that it's like reversing the debugging protocol. It's like, Hey, do the simulations. The code writes itself. Debug it on the front end. It rights itself rather than writing code, compiling it, debugging it, working through the use cases. I mean, it's pretty different. >>It is. It's really a new persona. When we started out, not only are you taking that roboticist persona and again introduced him to the cloud services and distributed computing what you're seeing machine learning scientists with robotics experience is actually rising. Is a new developer persona that we have to pay attention to him. We're talking to right now about what they what they need from our service. >>Well, Roger, I get I'm getting tight on time here. I want one final question before we break. How does someone get involved with Amazon? And I'll see you know, whether it's robotics and new areas like space, which is verging, there's a lot of action, a lot of interest. Um, how does someone engaged with Amazon to get involved, Whether I'm a student or whether I'm a professional, I want a code. What's what's the absolutely, >>absolutely, so certainly reinvent. We have several sessions that reinvent on AWS robo maker. Our team is there, presenting and talking about our road map and how people can get engaged. There is, of course, the remarks conference, which will be happening next year, hopefully to get engaged. Our team is active in the Ross Open Source Community and Ross Industrial, which is happening in Europe later in December but also happens in the Americas, where were present giving demos and getting hands on tutorials. We're also very active in the academic research in education arena. In fact, we just released open source curriculum that any developer could get access to on Get Hub for Robotics and Ross, as well as how to use robo maker that's freely available. Eso There's a number of touch points and, of course, I'd be welcome to a field. Any request for people to learn more or just engage with our team? >>Arthur Parker, general manager. It is robotics and also the Autonomous Systems Group at AWS Amazon Web services. Great stuff, and this is really awesome insight. Also, you know it za candy For the developers, it's the new generation of people who are going to get put their teeth into some new science and some new problems to solve. With software again, distributed computing meets robotics and hardware, and it's an opportunity to change the world literally. >>It is an exciting space. It's still Day one and robotics, and we look forward to seeing the car customers do with our service. >>Great stuff, of course. The Cube loves this country. Love robots. We love autonomous. We love space programming all this stuff, totally cutting edge cloud computing, changing the game at many levels with the digital transformation just a cube. Thanks for watching

>> Instructor: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of AWS Public Sector Partner Awards brought to you by, Amazon Web Services. >> Hello everyone, welcome to the special CUBE program. We are here with the Amazon Web Services public sector, partner awards program. It's a celebration of AWS, public sectors, partners and their end user customers, where there's been innovation. And we're pleased to have on the show here, the award winner for the most innovative AI, and ML artificial intelligence and machine learning solution. Axial3D is the newest partner and the end user is Belfast hospital. We got Roger Johnson, the CEO of Axial3D, and Dr. Tim Brown consulted transplant surgeon, at Belfast hospital, who has been doing amazing things, not only on the as an innovative partner, but really during COVID, making things happen, by solving the problem of the surgical gap and the number of surgeries that you're doing. Really high performance saving lives, congratulations. First of all, congratulations Roger and Dr.Tim Brown, thanks for joining me. >> We're pleasure. >> Okay, let's get into it. First of all, Dr. Tim Brown, I really want to commend you on the amazing work, that you're doing. Before we get, into some of the partnership awards conversations. You have been at the front lines solving a lot of problems around the gap, between the number of surgeries, that could take place with COVID. Tell that story real quick. I really think it's super important. Take a minute to explain. >> Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. And it's been an incredible roller coaster, for the last three months. And pretty much all of the transplant programs, across the world who have been affected, by COVID have shut down. But with some pretty innovative and real leadership and team working advances, we've managed to open a program up again and in Belfast, we have about 50 deceased donor transplants a year. Over the last three months, we've just done 90 kidney transplants and pretty much we've cleared, the whole waiting list in Northern Ireland pretty much, for people waiting for a kidney transplant in this time. And it's been a remarkable few weeks. But really is a testament to the critical care community, the people that work in intensive care, as to how much they support organ donation. And of course, our donors who have given so selflessly, at such a tragic time for them. So I'd like to pay tribute to all of our donors, and to the amazing amount of people, who have been involved in the teamwork and Belfast at this time. >> That's super amazing. Can you just I just want to pause for a minute just capture, the number of orders of magnitude, you said it was six to 10 a year and you did nine zero, 90? >> Yeah, so we have done two years work in six weeks, all in the middle of the night as well. So it's been it's been a hard work, so you can see the screen (mumbles). I'm trying to catch up with a minute. But it's been really, really satisfying, and an incredible outcome for our patients. The legacy of this program, is going to last at Belfast for 40 years. >> Brown I want to say congratulations, I'll give you my CUBE award for not changing the world, but saving the world, one person at a time. 90 interviews in six weeks. That's amazing. That's like clearing the waiting list. You're really changing lives there, congratulations. >> That's great, thank you very much. >> Roger, what a great partner and customer you have here. Talk about this award that you guys have, talk about the company. What is this all about? Why you guys in this position? Why are you winning? >> So I think our motivation for our company, is driven by our partners such as Tim, what they're doing transforms care, and even in these horrific situation are scenarios, we have the moment with COVID think you're hearing the start of an amazing story. Our job is to give surgeons like Tim, the best possible insight that he can have going into his surgeries. For the last 20 years, surgeons have relied largely on 2D imaging, so CT and MRI scans for being able to plan their surgeries, when in fact modern technology, should apply them much greater insight, before they actually perform their surgery. So we've created a technology, that platforms on AWS that allows us, to turn those traditional, hard to understand 2D images, into micromillimeter precise models of the patient's exact anatomy. The value hopefully to amazing colleagues like Tim, is that instead of trying to interpret what a 2D image CT or MRI scan might mean, he can actually see for the first time before, he opens the patient up exactly what he's going, to find when he starts the surgery, So he can really start planning, and complete that planning before, the surgery actually takes place. So hopefully, that allows a number of benefits result, whether that be shorter operations time, less surgical equipment needing to be brought, into the surgery, hopefully faster surgeries means less risk of infection, for patients means shorter time, means better outcomes the healthcare system but most importantly the patient. >> Awesome, Dr. Brown, I want to get your take on this. Can you describe the impact on your side because, you know, the future of work, which is everyone's been talking about, in the tech industry for many years. Now with COVID we were just talking about the successes, you're having and changing lives and saving lives. The notion of work workplace, workforces, work loads, work flows are all changing. Certainly the workplace people aren't as on site as they used to be. The workforce has to be protected. How does the AI and how does the Axial3D help you, in your workflows? Are you getting more done? Can you can you give specifics, around the impact to your job? >> Yeah, it's been a fantastic journey to date. And we're still learning our way. It's a journey. And we're trying to work out exactly where this lies. And the fact that COVID has not come along, which has changed our working practices means that, we have to look for different solutions. And this I think, is a very handy solution, to where it's come into my practice over the last three years has been, in terms of complex renal surgery and oncological surgery, where we have for example, a tumor in a kidney where we think my goodness, we're I have to take this kidney out and throw it in the bin because it's very badly diseased. So the index case that we were involved with, was involving a chap who wanted, to donate his kidney to his daughter. But when we worked him up, we find a tumor in his kidney, which ordinarily would have to be discarded. And but thanks to the imaging that Axial was able, to produce for us, we were able to plan well choose well cut well, and as a result, we took the kidney if we were able to plan, a removal of the tumor from the kidney itself, we were able to repair the kidney and then transplant into his daughter. So with the technology that was available, we were able to save two lives in one particular case. And it's really grown from there. And we've now been involved, in five or six different real complex cases, where the imaging has changed the outcomes for patients, who ordinarily wouldn't have been able to achieve them, as they comes, I think, the AI interface and the AI solution that we've, we've developed in our partnership with Axial. As I said, it's a journey, and we're still finding our way. But the two insights that I've really got are. The first is that what we want to do is reduce variability. And not just in our, in our observers from the way that we interpret imaging. Traditionally, as Roger said, we look at 2D images, we're now able to sit and look at this imaging in a three dimensional space on our desk. Rather than trying to reconstruct these things in our head. We can look at them and discuss the different images, with our colleagues in real time. As well as that, which I think is probably the most important thing, is that we're not able to engage our patients, in a partnership, before we've had a bit of an unfair advantage, that we're able to interpret these images. Because we've been trying to get 30 years of getting used, to doing this as professionals, and but the patients are presented, with some incredibly difficult decisions, to make by their own health. And with very little understanding, but my I can hand them a model of their own disease, they're able to understand. And that gives my patient the autonomy, to make the decisions about their own bodies back again, I think that's a hugely powerful, powerful tool for these guys to have, but potential decisions that they have, to make that will affect them for the rest of their lives. >> So the problem you were solving was one, of the technical problems, so you're trying to figure out manually get more insight, into the imaging and to the customer, or the patient in this case, customer the patient can make a better decision. Those are two problem statements. That seemed to be the big ones. Did I miss anything? >> Absolutely, no, he got one, yeah, absolutely. >> Okay, so Axial3D. You guys have a great solution. How did you get here? Tell us about your story. What's the big trajectory for you guys, in terms of this value proposition just seems to be amazing. And again highlights the advantages, how technology really solves a problem, but the outcome on the patient side is pretty phenomenal. >> So the chance for us is there, or the moment that we have made the leap we have made, is to be able to automatically turn these 2D images into 3D models. So we take each of the slices off of a MRI, or CT scan, using AWS machine learning, we construct 3D, micromillimeter precise representation of an anatomy. That's only possible, first of all, we train the algorithms that we created on the Amazon platform, using over a million pre labeled CT scans. So our system automatically detects a pixel level. What is bone, what is ligament, what is an artery or blood vessel? And with the training that we're able to perform, we've been able to with these million images, we've been able to, in effect train our system, to automatically detect the different parts of them, through this micro precise level, that hasn't been previously possible. And this technology, or the ability to create 3D models has existed for maybe 10, or 15 years. But it's needed experts like Tim to during effect, manually code, the 2D image at a pixel level and codify it so some software to turn that into 3D image, typically to either an RS of an expert like Tim to do, and the problem is Tim could only do one at a time. We estimate there are about three million, of these complex surgeries each year in the world, that need benefit greatly from this Enhanced Imaging. And we couldn't get three million months, he's selected that. So we have this process. Now on AWS platform, we have these models in parallel. And each model will take maybe a few minutes, to turn from the CT into the 3D representation. So through the power of the Amazon public cloud, we've been able to provide this powerful machine learning, automated solution that can actually scale, to the demand that we hope to see in the world. >> Dr. Tim Brown talked about the impact because I mean, Andy Jassy, the CEO of AWS always talks about this, when I interview him, he says, you know, we're here to help do the heavy lifting. This sounds like some pretty heavy lifting. What was just talked about? I mean, the manual work involved, you essentially have collective intelligence and supercomputer power with AWS. What's your take on this as this evolves? Why isn't everyone doing this? >> Yeah, well, I don't know why everyone is doing it. That's the key question it really is. From my perspective, there is no heavy lifting at all. And what I do is I push a couple of buttons, I input a bit of data and I send it off. And from my perspective, it is about as easy as it gets, it's probably as easy as sending an email, which we do hundreds of times a day. And so from my perspective, I'm delighted to say that there's no heavy lifting at all. I get a patient's data, I send the data through to Axial who will then fool me and say, listen, Tim, what is it exactly that you want? There's a great personal service from Axial, and a couple of days later, there's a delivery of a beautiful life size, 3D representation model, which I can then take to plan and treat a patient with. So the heavy lifting really has all been done. As Roger alluded to, in the past, it was hugely time consuming at work, that required a huge amount of training. But now basically, that's been replaced with pushing the button and these supercomputers taken all of my heavy lifting away. And I think this is one of the true representations, of high technology really, really advances, real world solutions. And my patients are the benefactors from this. >> Roger, Dr. Brown lay out the architecture, because first of all, pretend I want to take this every single friend, that I have here in California and around the world. I want to just deploy this what's the architecture and what's needed on the deployment side, say to Belfast as you deploy this, what's kind of involved, can you just take us through high level, I'm actually cloud scale is amazing. No doubt about it. We just talked about that but, what's involved in the architecture side, am I standing up on EC2 is there SageMaker involved me? What's the architecture and then deployment, What does that look like? >> Sure, so can you slide slight step back, one of the challenges when we as the med tech community try and introduce innovation into healthcare into hospitals, the hospitals IT infrastructure network definition, is often pretty locked down. So we're trying to bring new software and load it and install it into the hospital data system is a huge, often lengthy process that has, to jump through lots of hoops, in terms of a key network compliance, lots of different steps along the journey. And that often was for very good reasons, is a significant barrier, to the timely adoption of innovative technologies like ours. What platforming activity on AWS allies, were just another website. As Dr. Tim has said, his own though his only existence, with Axial3D in terms of interface, is dragging and dropping, the CT scan into our website, into our portal exists locally on the AWS instance, in whichever region we are working with, for example, in the US never leaves the US, we use the public cloud version. In US East, we take advantage of many features within AWS. But SageMaker is probably a core of what we do. It's not innovation that AWS introduced, you know, several years ago, that is the lightest to produce this, this machine learning trained set of algorithms, that allow us to give this disruption. >> And it sounds like the more you use it, the more get smarter is that as well. >> Absolutely, so our journey as Tim said, we're in a journey not only in terms of the technology, and you're very perceptive in terms of, yes, the more we train it, the more we train it, on specific anatomy types or pathology types or trauma types, the better our system gets, at recognizing the specific characteristics of those. But more importantly, this is about journey pipe. Having made this disruption we make the change and transformation of new standards of care pathways, Nazi innovation that we just enable. It's amazing surgical teams like Tim's, that make transformation. >> Dr. Brown now on your side you're sitting there I got a big problem trying to solve these problems. I got patients one but one better outcomes, they want to live. I don't want to throw away kidneys. I don't have to you just solve that problem. Now when they bring that over, what was it like over on your side of the house as a practitioner deploying it? You got two jobs going on. You're kind of doing IT integration on one hand and you're a surgeon on the other trying to make things happen. You know, what I see this is not a lot of it here. What's the deployment look like? >> Deployment to me is I don't know why ever as doing it, it's such a straightforward, easy situation. And it's, it's remarkable, really. It's such a good solution. I think, part of any sort of change management program, and this, again, is change management. It's challenging the way we think about things. That's challenging people's comfort zones. And anytime we need to change, we've got this anatomy of change. You've got innovators, we've got early adopters, we've got late adopters. And I think what we're going to see over the next five to 10 years is people recognizing that this technology, is a game changer, possibly being driven by their patients who say, I want a 3D model. And I want to see what this actually looks like. Because basically, that black and white picture you're showing me, doesn't make any sense to me. And I think there's going to be the two drivers is that the first is that we want to have consistency of care and the lack of variation in our care across all services. But as well as that the patience, I think, are going to drive this as well. So once once we get the innovators and the early adopters of this technology on board, then we'll see a tipping point. And that's, that's when it becomes an acceptable and normal thing for people, to do when they come into hospital. There'll be shown printout of their 3D printed model of their of their pathology, and that will be used to inform their decision making, for the treatment processes. And that's a true collaboration between doctor or surgeon and the patient. And that's, that's where we need to be in 21st century it's got to be a collaborative decision making process. And you talked about patient journeys, and, this is a really integral part. This is the roadmap of your journey to a large extent. So I think this I can see this, that's being rolled out worldwide, being driven by patients by correction and variability of health care provision. >> Its a great example, of an innovative award winner for the most innovative use of artificial intelligence and machine learning 3D images saving lives. Congratulations, Tim, Roger, it's phenomenal. Final question as we end this out. What's the scar tissue, pun intended? Well, what did you learn? What are some of the things that you could share with folks, as people look at this and say, this is an example of cloud scale and technology for good? What lessons have you learned? What can you share for folks, take a minute to explain each. But Roger, we'll start with you. >> Yeah, sure. So I think a number of lessons for us on this journey. As Tim says, this is a we're at the start of a journey, of understanding the power of what 3D imaging can bring to providing a consistent or less variable care, but also, as Tim also alluded to, in terms of the patient understanding, I think that patient understanding, is one of the huge leap forwards, that we didn't set out initially thinking, we're going to be able to help educate and better inform patients. But that was one of the derive benefits suddenly became apparent. So that was a great lesson. I think that incredible levels of adoption, that we're starting to see across the US across Europe. Because it's so easy to adopt, compared to traditional IT methods. Surgeons just register for a website, and they can start transacting and getting service from us, as opposed to having to have these huge IT programs. So I think we're now starting to really scratch the surface and start seeing the benefits of this isn't an administrative system. It's not the HR system. It's not a finance system, or maybe healthcare was comfortable in using public cloud. This is core hardcore clinical service, clinical diagnosis, clinical education, and the Amazon cloud is enabling that, just wouldn't be possible with this technology, (mumbles) the lessons we're learning are just (mumbles). >> Dr. Tim Brown and take us home and the segment, with your take, lessons learned and advice to others. >> I think the lesson learned are that doctors and healthcare providers are all extremely wary of change of new innovations. Because they feel that already, they're overburdened, and probably my colleagues in the States and across Europe feel like, we're a bit overburdened by all the things that we have to do. And this may potentially have been a more difficult or odds to your workload and actually fact, this makes your workload a lot easier and convincing people and getting people to understand that, this really does make your life a lot easier. It actually removes all the scar tissue it removes the difficulties that have been put in place by organizations. And once people realize that, that's what there is no heavy lifting. And this will make a huge difference to your practice and your patients understanding of your practice. And once that, once up, people really realize that, then the tipping point will be achieved. I'm looking forward to that date because this is going to be the new normal in the next five to 10 years. >> While the performance that you're putting up the numbers of 90 transplants successfully over six weeks, dwarfs the full year last year, really kind of shows the outcome is a game changer. And again, congratulations on your success. Roger, thank thank you for coming on. Congratulations on being the award winner, a diverse partner for the most innovative AI and machine learning solutions. Thanks for taking the time for part of this AWS partner awards program. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay, I'm John Furrier, we're covering the AWS public sector partner awards, program put on by the CUBE and AWS public sector partners. Thanks for watching. (bright upbeat music)

>>from the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a cube conversation. Welcome to the >>Special Cube program. We are here with the Amazon Web Services Public Sector Partner Awards program. It's a celebration of AWS public sectors partners and their end user customers where there's been innovation and we're pleased to have on this show here, the award winner for the most innovative AI and ML Artificial intelligence and machine learning solution. Axial three D is the partner, and the end user is Belfast Hospital. He got Roger Johnson, the CEO of actual three D, and Dr Tim Brown consulted transplant surgeon at Belfast Hospital, who has been doing amazing things not only on the as an innovative partner, but really during Covic making things happen by solving the problem of the surgical gap in the number of surgeries that you're doing really high performance saving lives. Congratulations. First of all, congratulations. Roger. Dr Kimberly. Thanks for joining me. >>Re pleasure. >>Okay, let's get into it. First of all, Dr Tim Brown, I really want to commend you on the amazing work that you're doing before we get into some of the partnership awards conversations. You have been at the front lines solving a lot of problems around the gap between the number of surgeries that could take place with Cove. It, um, tell that story real quick. I really think it's super important. Take a minute to >>explain. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. And it's been an incredible rollercoaster for the last three months, pretty much all of the transplant programs across the world who have been affected by Coupet of shut down but with some pretty innovative on the grill leadership team Working advances with managed to open a program up again. And and Belfast, we have a bytes and 50 to 50 disease donor transplants year over the last three months, with just a 90 90 kidney transplants. Pretty much we've cleared the whole waiting list in Northern Ireland, pretty much for people waiting for a kidney transplant at this time. And it's been a remarkable few weeks, but it really is a testament to the critical care community. People that work in intensive care is the high marks, a support organ donation. Of course, our donors who have given so selflessly at such a tragic time for them. So I'd like to pay tribute to all of our donors into the amazing people who have been involved in the team. Mark belt faster this time. >>That's super amazing. Can you just I just want to pause from and just captured the number of order of magnitude. You said it was 6 to 10 year and you didn't 90 90. >>Yeah, so six weeks basically Teoh, two years work in six weeks old in the middle of the night as well. So it's been It's been hard of hard work, so you can see the sleeplessness. I'm trying to catch up with a minute, but it's been really, really satisfying. An incredible I come for patients and legacy of this of this, the program is gonna last about faster. 40 years. >>Well, I want to say congratulations. I'll give you my Cube Award for not changing the world but saving the world. One person at a time. 90 interviews and six weeks. That's amazing. That's like thinking clearing the waiting list. You really changing lives there. Congratulations. >>That's very kind of you. Thank you very much. >>Roger. Good. A great partner and customer. You have here. Talk about this award. You guys have talked about the company? What is this all about? Why you guys in this position? Why are you winning? >>Yes, So I think our motivation for our company is driven by our partners, such such as? In what they're doing transforms care And even in these horrific situation, our scenarios. We have the moment with Kobe. Think you're hearing the start of the amazing story our job is to give Surgeons liked him the best possible insight that he can have going into his surgeries For the last 20 years, surgeons of relied largely on two D imaging, so C, t and memory scans or for being able to plan their surgeries when it's murdered, technology should apply them much greater insight or they actually perform the surgery. So we've created a technology that platforms on AWS that allows us to turn those traditional hard to understand to the images into micro millimeter precise models off the patients exact anatomy. The value hopefully, two amazing colleagues like Tim is that instead of trying to interpret what a two D image CD or memory scan might mean he can actually see for the first time before he opens the patient up exactly what he's going to find when when he when he starts the surgery. So he immediately start to complete that planning before the surgery actually takes. So hopefully that analyze a number of benefits to results without the shorter operations. Find less surgical meeting we brought into the surgery. Hopefully, faster Surgeries names last risk of infection For patients being shorter Time means most >>awesome. Dr. Brian, I want to get your take on this. Can you describe the impact on your side because you know the future of work, which is everyone's been talking about in the tech industry for many years now, with code we were just talking about. The success is you're having and changing lives and saving lives. The notion of work workplace work, forces, work loads, work flows are all changing. Certainly the workplace people aren't as on site as they used to be. The workforce has to be protected. How does the AI and how does the actual three D help you and your work flows? Are you getting more done? Can you give specifics around the impact to your job? >>Yeah, it's a bit It's been a fantastic journey to date. We're still learning away. It's a journey. We're trying to work out exactly where this lies in. The fact that Kubla does not come along, which has changed, or working practices, that means that we have to look for different solutions on this, I think, is very 100 solution to amend. My practice over the last three years has been in terms of complex and real surgery on oncological surgery, where we have, for example, a tumor and kidney where we think, my goodness, we're gonna have to take this kidney I and throw it in the bin because it's very badly disease. So the index case that we were involved with that was building a child who wanted to donate his kidney to his daughter. But when we worked him up, we find a tumor in his kidney, which ordinarily would have to be discarded. But thanks to the imaging that Excel was able to produce for us, we were able to plan Well, geez, well cut well and as a result of kidney, I really plan a removal of the tumor from the kidney itself. We really repair kidney and then transplant it into his daughter. So with the technology that was available, we were able to save two lives on one particular case on, and it's really grown from there on. We've been involved in five or six different, really complex cases where the imaging has changed the outcomes for our patients who ordinarily wouldn't have been able to. Chief insight comes, I think, the AI interface on the AI solution we've developed in our partnership with the Excel. As I said, it's a journey and we're still finding our way. But to insights that I've really got our the first is that what we want to do is reduce variability, not just in our in our observers, from the way that we interpret imaging tradition is what you're saying is, look a two D images. We're now able to sit and look at this, emerging in a three dimensional space on our desk. Rather than trying to reconstruct these things in your head, we can look at them and discuss the different images with our colleagues in real time, a zealous that which I think is probably the most important thing, is that we're not able to engage our patients and a partnership. Before we had a bit of an unfair advantage that we're able to interpret these images because 20 or 30 years of getting used to doing this as professionals. But the patients are presented with some incredibly difficult decisions to make by their own health and with very little understanding that. But now I can handle the model of their own disease very easy to understand, and that gives my patient autonomy to make the decisions about their own bodies back again. And I think that's a hugely powerful, powerful tool for these guys have about potential decisions that they have to make that more effective for the rest of their lives. >>So the problem you're solving was one of the technical problem. So you're trying to figure out manually, get more insight into the the imaging and to the customer or the patient. This case customer, the patient. I can make a better decision. Those are two problems, statements that seem to be the big ones that I missed. Anything? >>Absolutely, absolutely. >>Okay, so actual three d you guys have a great solution? How >>did you >>get here? Tell us about your story. What's what's What's the big trajectory for you guys? In terms of the value proposition, it seems to be amazing and again highlights. The advantages of technology really solves the problem. But the outcome on the patient side is pretty phenomenal. >>Yes, so the chance for us is there or the development that we have made. The lately, we admit, is to be able to automatically turn these two D images into three D models. So we take each of the slices off of memory or cities. Using AWS is machine learning. We construct three D macro millimeter precise representation of For me. That's only possible. First of all, we treat the algorithms that we created on Amazon platform using over a 1,000,000 pre labeled CDs. Consume our system automatically detect. Yeah, it's a level. What is bone? What is ligament? What is on our earlier vessel? With the training that we're able to perform, we've been able to with with these 1,000,000 images we've been able to in effect, tree and our system automatically detect the parts of me with this micro service level that hasn't been previously possible. This technology, or the ability to create three D models, has existed for maybe 10 or 15 years, but it's it's needed. Experts like him who were, in effect manually code the two D image pixel level and could affect so some software and turn it into a three D image. Typically, too, it's in ours, often expert like them to do. And the problem is, Tim could only do one of the time. We estimate there about three million of these complex surgeries each year in the world that need open effort from greatly from this enhanced imaging. And we couldn't get 33 million under these, especially. And that. So we have this process no on the AWS platform, with dozens of these models in parallel, and each more will take maybe a few minutes to turn from the CD into the into the three D representation. So through the park off the Amazon Public cloud, we've been able to provide this this powerful machine learning automated solution that can actually scale toe man >>Dr Brian talk about the impact because, I mean Andy Jassy, the CEO of AWS, always talks about this. When I interviewed him, he says, you know, we're here to help do the heavy lifting this sounds like some pretty heavy lifting. What was just talked about? I mean, the manual work involved. You essentially have a collective intelligence and supercomputer power with AWS. What's your take on this as this evolves? Why isn't everyone doing this? >>Yeah, well, I don't know why. Every minute. That's that's That's the key question. It really is. From my perspective, there is no heavy lifting at all, and what I do is I push a couple buttons. I put a bit of data, and I send it off. From my perspective, it is about as easy as it gets is probably a ZTE sending email, which we do hundreds of times a day. And so, from from my perspective, I'm delighted to say there's no heavy lifting until I get a patient's data. I send data through to excel, who will then fool me and say, Listen to what is it exactly that we want to have a personal service from actual on? A couple days later, there's a delivery of a beautiful life size three D representation model, will check and then take to plan on and treat a patient with. So the heavy lifting really has all been done. A Z Roger alluded to in the past. It was hugely time consuming work that required a huge amount of training. But basically that's being replaced with a push of a button on. These supercomputers have taken all of my heavy lifting away on, and I think this is one of the true representation. Zoff technology really, really advances real world solutions and my patients are benefactors. From this >>Roger Dr Brown. Lay out the architecture because, first of all, pretend I want to take this every single friend that I have here in California and around the world. I want to just deploy this. What's the architecture and what's needed on the deployment side? Say it to Belfast as you deploy this. What's kind of involved in you? Just take us through high level. I must be cloud scales. Amazing, No doubt about it. We just talked about that. But what's involved in the architecture side of my standing? A bunch PC two's Is there sage maker involvement? What's the architecture and then deployment? What does that look like? >>Sure, So again, a slight step back. One of the challenges when, when we is the MedTech community try and introduce innovation into health and hospitals that the hospitals i t. Infrastructure network definition is often very locked on. So we're trying to bring new software and load it and install it in the hospital data system. That is a huge, often lengthy process that has to be done through lots of hoops in terms off Hey, network a compliance. Lots of different steps along the journey and that often wants from a good reasons, is a significant barrier to the timely adoption off innovative technologies in the cars. What a what a platform a selfie on AWS allies were just another website, as Tennis said, is, uh, only that, though his only existence with actual three D in terms of the interface is dragging and dropping the CT scan into our website into a portal portal exists quickly on the AWS instance. In one of our region, we are working with a little in the US. Never leave the US We use the the public client version in US East. We take advantage of many features within AWS, but a sage maker is probably a core of what we do. It's not innovation that AWS introduced know several years ago that was like juice this this machine learning trained set of algorithms that allow us to give this disruption. >>And it sounds like the more you use it, the more get smarter. Or is that as well? >>Absolutely. So our journey is, As Tim said, we're on a journey not only in terms off the technology and you're very receptive. In terms of yes, the more we train it, the more we treated on specific anatomy types or pathology types or trouble types, the better our system gets recognizing the specific characteristics of those. More importantly, this is about a journey I having made this disruption, we make the change and transformation off new standards of care pathways. That's the innovation that we just enable. It's amazing. Surgical teams like hymns. Let me transformation >>Dr Brown on your side. You're sitting there. I got a big problem trying to solve these problems. I got patients one but one better outcomes. They want to live. I don't want to throw away kitty, so I don't have to you to solve that problem that when when they bring that over, what was it like over on your side of the house is a practitioner. Deploying it. You've got you've got two jobs going. You're kind of doing I t integration on one hand and you're a surgeon on the other, trying to make things happen. You know what I see? This is not a lot of I t here. What's the deployment? Looks like. >>Yeah, deployment means I don't know. Why ever announces doing that. Such a straightforward, easy situation. It's that's remarkable. Ready? It's such a good solution, and I think part of any sort of change management program, and this again is change management. It's challenging the way we think about things. It's challenging people's comfort zones on any time we need to do change. We've got this anatomy of change. You've got innovators go early, adopters will lead the doctors, and I think what we're going to see over the next 5 to 10 years is people are recognizing that this technology is a game changer, possibly being driven by their patients who say I'm on the three D model and I want to see what this actually looks like because basically not black and white picture you're showing me doesn't make any sense to me and I think there's going to be the two drivers is that the first is that we want to have a consistency of care on the lack of variation in our care across across old old services. But as well is that patients? I think we're gonna drive this as well. So once once we get the innovators and the early adopters of this technology on board, then we'll see a tipping point. And that's that's when it becomes an acceptable normal thing for people to do. When they come in the hospital, they'll be sure print tight off their three d printed like moral off their pathology. I'm not a huge demand for their decision making for treatment processes, and that's a true collaboration between doctor or surgeon on the patient. That's that's where we need to be in the 21st century. It's it's going to be a collaborative decision making process. You talked about the pressures, journeys and this This is a really integral part. This is the roadmap of your journey to a large extent. So I think this I can see this being rolled out worldwide, being driven by patients buying a correction and variability of healthcare provision. >>That's a great example is an innovative award winner for the most innovative use of artificial intelligence and machine learning. Three D images saving lives Congratulations, Tim Rogers. Phenomenal Final question As we end this out, what's the scar tissue pun intended? You know, What did you learn? What was some of the things that you could share with folks as people look at this and say This is an example of cloud scale and the technology for good. What lessons have you learned? What can you share for folks? Take a minute to explain the split. Roger. We'll start with you. >>Yeah, sure. So I think a number off lessons for us on this journey Assistances, This is Ah, we're at the start of a journey of understanding the power off the what three d imaging can bring just to providing a consistent use variable care, but also as a stem also alluded to in terms of off the patient understanding, I think that patient understanding is one of the huge leap forwards that way. Didn't set out initially thinking we're going to be able to help educate on better inform patients. But that was one of the derive benefits suddenly part. So that was a great lesson. I think there is incredible levels of adoption that we're starting to see across the US across Europe because it's so easy to adopt. Compared to traditional methods, surgeons registered for Canadian start transacting and instead of us almost as opposed to having to have these huge I t programs. So I think we're now starting to really scratch the surface and start seeing the benefits of this isn't an administrative system. It's not me. HR system. It's not a finance system. Or maybe a healthcare was comfortable. And using public like this is core hard core clinical services, clinical diagnosis. Clinical education on the Amazon cloud is enabling that it just wouldn't be possible with this technology we started. Actually, the lessons were learning or just just >>Dr Tim Brown and take us home and the segment with your take lessons learned and advice to others. >>I think the lessons learned are the doctors and health care providers are all extremely wary off change of new innovations because they feel that already they're overburdened. Probably my colleagues in the states and across Europe perfectly like they were a bit over, burdened by all the things that we have to do, and this may potentially have been more difficult or wants to your workloads. And actually, let's make your workload along each year convincing people and getting people to understand that this really does make your life a lot easier. It actually removes all the scar tissue, removes the difficulties that have been put in place by by organizations on once. People realize that, that's what that there is no heavy lifting. And this will make a huge difference to your practices, your patients understanding of your practice, and we'll stop so people really realize that the tipping point will be achieved. I'm looking forward to that day because this this is going to be the new normal in the next 5 to 10 years. >>While the performance that you're putting up the numbers of 90 transplant successfully over six weeks dwarfs the full year, last year really kind of shows the outcome is a game changer. And again, congratulations on your success. Roger think Thank you for coming on Corrections on being the award winner. Eight of his partner for the most innovative AI and machine learning solutions. Thanks for taking the time for this 80 s partner awards program. Thank you. >>Thank you. >>Okay, I'm John Furrier. We're covering the AWS Public Sector Partner Awards program put on by the Cube and AWS Public Sector Partners. Thanks for watching. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Instructor: From the Cube Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE conversation. >> Over welcome to the special CUBE program. We are here with the Amazon Web Services public sector, partner awards program. It's a celebration of AWS, public sectors, partners and their end user customers, where there's been innovation. And we're pleased to have on the show here, the award winner for the most innovative AI, and ML artificial intelligence and machine learning solution. Axial3D is the newest partner and the end user is Belfast hospital. We got Roger Johnson, the CEO of Axial3D, and Dr. Tim Brown consulted transplant surgeon, at Belfast hospital, who has been doing amazing things, not only on the as an innovative partner, but really during COVID, making things happen, by solving the problem of the surgical gap and the number of surgeries that you're doing. Really high performance saving lives, congratulations. First of all, congratulations Roger and Dr.Tim Brown, thanks for joining me. >> We're pleasure. >> Okay, let's get into it. First of all, Dr. Tim Brown, I really want to commend you on the amazing work, that you're doing. Before we get, into some of the partnership awards conversations. You have been at the front lines solving a lot of problems around the gap, between the number of surgeries, that could take place with COVID. Tell that story real quick. I really think it's super important. Take a minute to explain. >> Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. And it's been an incredible roller coaster, for the last three months. And pretty much all of the transplant programs, across the world who have been affected, by COVID have shut down. But with some pretty innovative and real leadership and team working advances, we've managed to open a program up again and in Belfast, we have about 50 deceased donor transplants a year. Over the last three months, we've just done 90 kidney transplants and pretty much with with care, the whole wedding list in Northern Ireland pretty much, for people waiting for kidney transplant in this time. And it's been a remarkable few weeks. But really is a testament to the critical care community, the people that work in intensive care, as to how much they support organ donation. And of course, our donors who have given so selflessly, at such a tragic time for them. So I'd like to pay tribute to all of our donors, and to the amazing amount of people, who have been involved in the team mark and Belfast at this time. >> That's super amazing. Can you just I just want to pause for a minute just capture, the number of orders of magnitude, you said it was six to 10 a year and you did nine zero, 90? >> Yeah, so we have done two years work in six weeks, all in the middle of the night as well. So it's been it's been a hard work, so you can see the screen (mumbles). I'm trying to catch up with a minute. But it's been really, really satisfying, and an incredible outcome for our patients. The legacy of this program, is going to last at Belfast for 40 years. >> Brown I want to say congratulations, I'll give you my CUBE award for not changing the world, but saving the world, one person at a time. 90 interviews in six weeks. That's amazing. That's like clearing the waiting list. You're really changing lives there, congratulations. >> That's great, thank you very much. >> Roger, what a great partner and customer you have here. Talk about this award that you guys have, talk about the company. What is this all about? Why you guys in this position? Why are you winning? >> So I think our motivation for our company, is driven by our partners such as Tim, what they're doing transforms care, and even in these horrific situation are scenarios, we have the moment with COVID think you're hearing the start of an amazing story. Our job is to give surgeons like Tim, the best possible insight that he can have going into his surgeries. For the last 20 years, surgeons have relied largely on 2D imaging, so CT and MRI scans for being able to plan their surgeries, when in fact modern technology, should apply them much greater insight, before they actually perform their surgery. So we've created a technology, that platforms on AWS that allows us, to turn those traditional, hard to understand 2D images, into micromillimeter precise models of the patient's exact anatomy. The value hopefully to amazing colleagues like Tim, is that instead of trying to interpret what a 2D image CT or MRI scan might mean, he can actually see for the first time before, he opens the patient up exactly what he's going, to find when he starts the surgery, So he can really start planning, and complete that planning before, the surgery actually takes place. So hopefully, that allows a number of benefits result, whether that be shorter operations time, less surgical equipment meeting we brought, into the surgery, hopefully faster. surgeries means less risk of infection, for patients means shorter time, means the healthcare system (mumbles). >> Awesome, Dr. Brown, I want to get your take on this. Can you describe the impact on your side because, you know, the future of work, which is everyone's been talking about, in the tech industry for many years. Now with COVID we were just talking about the successes, you're having and changing lives and saving lives. The notion of work workplace, workforces, work loads, work flows are all changing. Certainly the workplace people aren't as on site as they used to be. The workforce has to be protected. How does the AI and how does the Axial3D help you, in your workflows? Are you getting more done? Can you can you give specifics, around the impact to your job? >> Yeah, it's been a fantastic journey to date. And we're still learning our way. It's a journey. And we're trying to work out exactly where this lies. And the fact that COVID has not come along, which has changed our working practices means that, we have to look for different solutions. And this I think, is a very handy solution, to where it's come into my practice over the last three years has been, in terms of complex renal surgery and oncological surgery, where we have for example, a tumor in a kidney where we think my goodness, we're I have to take this kidney out and throw it in the bin because it's very badly diseased. So the index case that we were involved with, was involving a chap who wanted, to donate his kidney to his daughter. But when we worked him up, we find a tumor in his kidney, which ordinarily would have to be discarded. And but thanks to the imaging that Axial was able, to produce for us, we were able to plan well choose well cut well, and as a result, we took the kidney if we were able to plan, a removal of the tumor from the kidney itself, we were able to repair the kidney and then transplant into his daughter. So with the technology that was available, we were able to save two lives in one particular case. And it's really grown from there. And we've now been involved, in five or six different real complex cases, where the imaging has changed the outcomes for patients, who ordinarily wouldn't have been able to achieve them, as they comes, I think, the AI interface and the AI solution that we've, we've developed in our partnership with Axial. As I said, it's a journey, and we're still finding our way. But the two insights that I've really got are. The first is that what we want to do is reduce variability. And not just in our, in our observers from the way that we interpret imaging. Traditionally, as Roger said, we look at 2D images, we're now able to sit and look at this imaging in a three dimensional space on our desk. Rather than trying to reconstruct these things in our head. We can look at them and discuss the different images, with our colleagues in real time. As well as that, which I think is probably the most important thing, is that we're not able to engage our patients, in a partnership, before we've had a bit of an unfair advantage, that we're able to interpret these images. Because we've been trying to get 30 years of getting used, to doing this as professionals, and but the patients are presented, with some incredibly difficult decisions, to make by their own health. And with very little understanding, but my I can hand them a model of their own disease, they're able to understand. And that gives my patient the autonomy, to make the decisions about their own bodies back again, I think that's a hugely powerful, powerful tool for these guys to have, but potential decisions that they have, to make that will affect them for the rest of their lives. >> So the problem you were solving was one, of the technical problems, so you're trying to figure out manually get more insight, into the imaging and to the customer, or the patient in this case, customer the patient can make a better decision. Those are two problem statements. That seemed to be the big ones. Did I miss anything? >> Absolutely, no, he got one, yeah, absolutely. >> Okay, so Axial3D. You guys have a great solution. How did you get here? Tell us about your story. What's the big trajectory for you guys, in terms of this value proposition just seems to be amazing. And again highlights the advantages, how technology really solves a problem, but the outcome on the patient side is pretty phenomenal. >> So the chance for us is there, or the moment that we have made the leap we have made, is to be able to automatically turn these 2D images into 3D models. So we take each of the slices off of a MRI, or CT scan, using AWS machine learning, we construct 3D, micromillimeter precise representation of an anatomy. That's only possible, first of all, we train the algorithms that we created on the Amazon platform, using over a million pre labeled CT scans. So our system automatically detects a pixel level. What is bone, what is ligament, what is an artery or blood vessel? And with the training that we're able to perform, we've been able to with these million images, we've been able to, in effect train our system, to automatically detect the different parts of them, through this micro precise level, that hasn't been previously possible. And this technology, or the ability to create 3D models has existed for maybe 10, or 15 years. But it's needed experts like Tim to during effect, manually code, the 2D image at a pixel level and codify it so some software to turn that into 3D image, typically to either an RS of an expert like Tim to do, and the problem is Tim could only do one at a time. We estimate there are about three million, of these complex surgeries each year in the world, that need benefit greatly from this Enhanced Imaging. And we couldn't get three million months, he's selected that. So we have this process. Now on AWS platform, we have these models in parallel. And each model will take maybe a few minutes, to turn from the CT into the 3D representation. So through the power of the Amazon public cloud, we've been able to provide this powerful machine learning, automated solution that can actually scale, to the demand that we hope to see in the world. >> Dr. Tim Brown talked about the impact because I mean, Andy Jassy, the CEO of AWS always talks about this, when I interview him, he says, you know, we're here to help do the heavy lifting. This sounds like some pretty heavy lifting. What was just talked about? I mean, the manual work involved, you essentially have collective intelligence and supercomputer power with AWS. What's your take on this as this evolves? Why isn't everyone doing this? >> Yeah, well, I don't know why everyone is doing it. That's the key question it really is. From my perspective, there is no heavy lifting at all. And what I do is I push a couple of buttons, I input a bit of data and I send it off. And from my perspective, it is about as easy as it gets, it's probably as easy as sending an email, which we do hundreds of times a day. And so from my perspective, I'm delighted to say that there's no heavy lifting at all. I get a patient's data, I send the data through to Axial who will then fool me and say, listen, Tim, what is it exactly that you want? There's a great personal service from Axial, and a couple of days later, there's a delivery of a beautiful life size, 3D representation model, which I can then take to plan and treat a patient with. So the heavy lifting really has all been done. As Roger alluded to, in the past, it was hugely time consuming at work, that required a huge amount of training. But now basically, that's been replaced with pushing the button and these supercomputers taken all of my heavy lifting away. And I think this is one of the true representations, of high technology really, really advances, real world solutions. And my patients are the benefactors from this. >> Roger, Dr. Brown lay out the architecture, because first of all, pretend I want to take this every single friend, that I have here in California and around the world. I want to just deploy this what's the architecture and what's needed on the deployment side, say to Belfast as you deploy this, what's kind of involved, can you just take us through high level, I'm actually cloud scale is amazing. No doubt about it. We just talked about that but, what's involved in the architecture side, am I standing up on EC2 is there SageMaker involved me? What's the architecture and then deployment, What does that look like? >> Sure, so can you slide slight step back, one of the challenges when we as the med tech community try and introduce innovation into healthcare into hospitals, the hospitals IT infrastructure network definition, is often pretty locked down. So we're trying to bring new software and load it and install it into the hospital data system is a huge, often lengthy process that has, to jump through lots of hoops, in terms of a key network compliance, lots of different steps along the journey. And that often was for very good reasons, is a significant barrier, to the timely adoption of innovative technologies like ours. What platforming activity on AWS allies, were just another website. As Dr. Tim has said, his own though his only existence, with Axial3D in terms of interface, is dragging and dropping, the CT scan into our website, into our portal exists locally on the AWS instance, in whichever region we are working with, for example, in the US never leaves the US, we use the public cloud version. In US East, we take advantage of many features within AWS. But SageMaker is probably a core of what we do. It's not innovation that AWS introduced, you know, several years ago, that is the lightest to produce this, this machine learning trained set of algorithms, that allow us to give this disruption. >> And it sounds like the more you use it, the more get smarter is that as well. >> Absolutely, so our journey as Tim said, we're in a journey not only in terms of the technology, and you're very perceptive in terms of, yes, the more we train it, the more we train it, on specific anatomy types or pathology types or trauma types, the better our system gets, at recognizing the specific characteristics of those. But more importantly, this is about journey pipe. Having made this disruption we make the change and transformation of new standards of care pathways, Nazi innovation that we just enable. It's amazing surgical teams like Tim's, that make transformation. >> Dr. Brown now on your side you're sitting there I got a big problem trying to solve these problems. I got patients one but one better outcomes, they want to live. I don't want to throw away kidneys. I don't have to you just solve that problem. Now when they bring that over, what was it like over on your side of the house as a practitioner deploying it? You got two jobs going on. You're kind of doing IT integration on one hand and you're a surgeon on the other trying to make things happen. You know, what I see this is not a lot of it here. What's the deployment look like? >> Deployment to me is I don't know why ever as doing it, it's such a straightforward, easy situation. And it's, it's remarkable, really. It's such a good solution. I think, part of any sort of change management program, and this, again, is change management. It's challenging the way we think about things. That's challenging people's comfort zones. And anytime we need to change, we've got this anatomy of change. You've got innovators, we've got early adopters, we've got late adopters. And I think what we're going to see over the next five to 10 years is people recognizing that this technology, is a game changer, possibly being driven by their patients who say, I want a 3D model. And I want to see what this actually looks like. Because basically, that black and white picture you're showing me, doesn't make any sense to me. And I think there's going to be the two drivers is that the first is that we want to have consistency of care and the lack of variation in our care across all services. But as well as that the patience, I think, are going to drive this as well. So once once we get the innovators and the early adopters of this technology on board, then we'll see a tipping point. And that's, that's when it becomes an acceptable and normal thing for people, to do when they come into hospital. There'll be shown printout of their 3D printed model of their of their pathology, and that will be used to inform their decision making, for the treatment processes. And that's a true collaboration between doctor or surgeon and the patient. And that's, that's where we need to be in 21st century it's got to be a collaborative decision making process. And you talked about patient journeys, and, this is a really integral part. This is the roadmap of your journey to a large extent. So I think this I can see this, that's being rolled out worldwide, being driven by patients by correction and variability of health care provision. >> Its a great example, of an innovative award winner for the most innovative use of artificial intelligence and machine learning 3D images saving lives. Congratulations, Tim, Roger, it's phenomenal. Final question as we end this out. What's the scar tissue, pun intended? Well, what did you learn? What are some of the things that you could share with folks, as people look at this and say, this is an example of cloud scale and technology for good? What lessons have you learned? What can you share for folks, take a minute to explain each. But Roger, we'll start with you. >> Yeah, sure. So I think a number of lessons for us on this journey. As Tim says, this is a we're at the start of a journey, of understanding the power of what 3D imaging can bring to providing a consistent or less variable care, but also, as Tim also alluded to, in terms of the patient understanding, I think that patient understanding, is one of the huge leap forwards, that we didn't set out initially thinking, we're going to be able to help educate and better inform patients. But that was one of the derive benefits suddenly became apparent. So that was a great lesson. I think that incredible levels of adoption, that we're starting to see across the US across Europe. Because it's so easy to adopt, compared to traditional IT methods. Surgeons just register for a website, and they can start transacting and getting service from us, as opposed to having to have these huge IT programs. So I think we're now starting to really scratch the surface and start seeing the benefits of this isn't an administrative system. It's not the HR system. It's not a finance system, or maybe healthcare was comfortable in using public cloud. This is core hardcore clinical service, clinical diagnosis, clinical education, and the Amazon cloud is enabling that, just wouldn't be possible with this technology, (mumbles) the lessons we're learning are just (mumbles). >> Dr. Tim Brown and take us home and the segment, with your take, lessons learned and advice to others. >> I think the lesson learned are that doctors and healthcare providers are all extremely wary of change of new innovations. Because they feel that already, they're overburdened, and probably my colleagues in the States and across Europe feel like, we're a bit overburdened by all the things that we have to do. And this may potentially have been a more difficult or odds to your workload and actually fact, this makes your workload a lot easier and convincing people and getting people to understand that, this really does make your life a lot easier. It actually removes all the scar tissue it removes the difficulties that have been put in place by organizations. And once people realize that, that's what there is no heavy lifting. And this will make a huge difference to your practice and your patients understanding of your practice. And once that, once up, people really realize that, then the tipping point will be achieved. I'm looking forward to that date because this is going to be the new normal in the next five to 10 years. >> While the performance that you're putting up the numbers of 90 transplants successfully over six weeks, dwarfs the full year last year, really kind of shows the outcome is a game changer. And again, congratulations on your success. Roger, thank thank you for coming on. Congratulations on being the award winner, a diverse partner for the most innovative AI and machine learning solutions. Thanks for taking the time for part of this AWS partner awards program. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay, I'm John Furrier, we're covering the AWS public sector partner awards, program put on by the CUBE and AWS public sector partners. Thanks for watching. (bright upbeat music)

>> Narrator: From New York City It's theCUBE covering New Relic FutureStack 2019. Brought to you by New Relic. >> Hi, I'm Stu Minimen and we're here at New Relic's FutureStack 2019 at the Grand Hyatt, next to Grand Central Station, here in New York City. Happy to welcome to the program a first time guest, Roger Scott who's the Chief Customer Officer at New Relic. Roger, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks, Stu. Thanks for having me on. Good to be here. >> Alright so, I love this morning actually in addition to hearing all of the announcements, my first hand full of guests on theCUBE were customers. So I got to hear from them and we know your team is always excited about the announcements, but definitely enthusiasm from the customers, things in the keynote that got people. >> Fired up! Yeah. >> Clapping, and fired up. >> Great to see. >> Things like, oh wait! 10 terabytes of data, pressure thing, refresh for like a second, and >>oh my gosh! There's results. Yeah >> Pretty impressive so maybe give us a little bit of insight into customer engagement and how it's let to the bevy of announcements here at the show. >> Oh it's a great question actually and I think in my capacity as Chief Customer Officer and the functions I'm responsible for, we're continually engaging with customers as you can imagine. And one of the things we take a lot of pride in is being a proxy for the voice of the customer back into the organization. So we have a pretty rigid process. Not rigid, a pretty discipline process, I would argue, that allows us to get feedback from the field, listen to our customers, understand what's important to them, and reflect that in our product roadmap. And I'll let you know that's on a weekly cadence we do that. Now we're not doing that in a reactive fashion such that our roadmap diverts every single week in there, but we hear that constant feedback from the field as to what our customers are lacking. So lot of what you hear today, in terms of those six great announcements that we have were a combination of feedback that we've had over the last couple of years, I would argue. Because it's a dramatic shift to go from what we were previously, which was essentially six individual products that work really well together. But through the release of New Relic 1 in May earlier this year and what we announced today has truly developed us in to a observability platform. So monitoring with six different products to a true observably platform that's open, connected and programmable is a dramatic shift. And that's a combination of a bunch of feedback from our customers over the years. >> Yeah. I'm sure it's pretty much feedback from all customers. They're not asking for more tools and more interfaces and more things that they need to learn. >> Roger: Not at all, right. >> In many ways software can be a unifying feature especially that term platform who spend a bunch of time emphasizing what's needed from platform. >> Maybe, what were your costumers struggling with that kind of New Relic 1 in general is looking to solve as well as the observability piece? What went into that launch that was costumer pinpoints and things that they'd been asking for. >> Yeah maybe to stand back a little bit and understand some of the challenges that costumers had and then why they were asking for different solutions or evolution of our solution. If you think about today's world, there's this rapid development an deployment of software, so it's almost got to the point of continuous software deployment. And so your speed of needing to be able to react to problems in your environment, your costumer experience are degrading, ect. Being able to respond to that really quickly is essential, understanding the costumer experience is essential. You talked about operational efficiency of reducing the number of tooling sets or data sets that I'm looking at continually. So anything that we could provide to our costumers that allowed them to get to answers quicker, understand the why, and then be able to remediate that really easily so that the costumers have a greater experience. And at the same time reduces this friction that's unnecessarily introduced when you're going from one product to another, one tool to another and you're spending too much time rationalizing data sets across those tool sets. So consolidation is a big theme, ability to get to your answers really quickly is a big theme and that's really been the genesis of being able to create a platform. But not just a platform for consolidation, for better visibility, and observability but we believe it's not truly a platform until you can develop on it. If you think back in technology history of all the different peradams we've had throughout the history of technology, those who've won the platform wars over the years have been really good at being able to provide tools and ease of adoption of the platform by virtue of being able to build things on top of it. The ability to give people tools that allow them to build technology is really a therasense of the platform as well. >> You know, Roger, there's a certain trust level that costumers have to have if they're going to be building on top of your platform. >> When I've talked to costumers in New Relic they do talk about a partnership >> and the good back and forth but there's definitely a certain amount of stickiness once they've built something on your platform. >> Roger: Right, yeah. >> Any concerns from them as to, you know there's that term lock in out there as to the how do I know that this is going to work for me, and that I'm not going to have my pricing kind of crank up over time and be like oh my gosh, a year or two later, what did I get myself into? >> Right. It's a really important point that I'd like to start off by actually reemphasizing the point you made. I think we pride ourselves on the relationship we have with our costumers. It truly is the heart of everything at my organization does. We have this saying that we are because they are. In the realization that if we don't serve our costumers really well they have choices frequently, we're a saas vendor, the contracts come up for renewal frequently. And if you're unable to deliver on the promises that you made in the sales process, once they implement your solutions and try to use those in production, environments and everyday work if you can't deliver on those promises then you're going to breakdown that level of trust. And trust is at the center of all relationships as you know. Whether it's a personal relationship, you're playing on a sports team, whether you're working with your costumers. And so we want to make sure that we can deliver on those promises once we've sold them the product. So I haven't heard any specific concerns about lock in or anything, I think what they regularly come to us though with is they want us to have a really strong point of view, want us to be opinionated, tell them how this should work effectively together, what does best practice look like, what's the gold standard, what are some of the artifacts, tools, frameworks, reusable templates that we can share with them that accelerates their time to value. So I think the value significantly outweighs the concerns around lock in or reduction of the number of vendors that they're working with. >> If I look at really the enterprise space, you've got costumers working through their application modernization. They've got their modelist their going after micro services. I heard a stat that only about five to ten percent of apps are monitored at the app level today. >> Yeah, pretty scary, isn't it? >> Yeah, how many of your costumers are dealing with the installed state versus new deployments and what are some of the challenges you're hearing from costumers there? >> Yeah and I think it's important to pause that number because I think it's five to ten percent or growing to twenty percent as I think got indicated. If you look at those organizations Born In The Cloud or Born Digital it's significantly higher percentage of that which is possibly an indictment of the low level of instrumentation we see in a lot of legacy software technology stacks. And so I think in today's world we're tryna get that level of instrumentation observability up as much as possible. But maybe to link back to your previous question as well I think there's an important aspect here of when we move to a platform. When you're a product company your differentiation comes through product, comes through the capability of that product features and functions and we've certainly found ourselves in a significant number of those battles against competition where it's feature and function based. That's not a great comfort for the costumer. I think when you move to a platform it's very much around the networks differentiation. When I say network differentiation I think it's about getting the users of your service access to third party applications to third party data sources be they open source data emitters, opentelementry, open sensors, Zipkin any of those data sets that we are now in support for today. Giving them access to those data sets and being able to enrich the experience that we provide them that network effects and that's really where we see the opportunity to deliver significantly more value to our costumers with the ability to then build your own applications on top of the platform. That's second to none in the industry in my opinion. >> Roger, what's New Relic's role in helping costumers as really they're modernizing their work force? When I talk to so many companies it's like they need to retrain and they have to have new skill sets they need to make sure as certain cloud in automation changes where they focus on things and embrace devops and new ways of doing things. There are a lot of challenges there. Where does New Relic play in that modernization for costumers? >> You know what I think it's in a couple ways. The ways that we, my organization, can help the costumer in terms of just sheer understanding of the capability of the platform, what are best practices, how we can drive better accountability as you move to these new technology stacks and new ways of working much more agile environments. And so I think we can do a combination of that just sheer skills development, working really tightly with the likes of AWS you would've heard Dave McCann this morning talking about how when costumers migrate the application work goes to the AWS cloud environment. Hopefully they're not just doing that by way of compute lift and shift but they were actually looking at modernizing and refactoring those applications and when they do that, you heard Dave talk through a number of assets and frameworks and models and reusable best practices that we're trying to work with them on that we can give to our costumers that accelerate their journey 'cause it's not easy. We were talking to Chris Dillon this morning from Cox Automotive and when you think of an organization like that that's forty, fifty years old and has had to transform itself in terms of digital experience for it's costumer base, it's a significant cultural adjustment quite often to get teams to work in fundamentally different ways. So it's not an insignificant challenge but that's partly why we've invested so heavily in costumer success. Taking the costumers on the journey, thinking about their maturity over time, and constantly look for them to get better value from the platform. >> Roger, there are a number of things that have jumped out at me. Things like oh hey, we can save you potentially millions of dollars on your AWS cloud bill. You've already got costumers building on top of the platform, you had the future Haka event just a couple of weeks ago. Any other kind of interesting or exemplary costumer outcomes that you might be able to share? Either doesn't have to be about the new stuff but just that you've recently with your costumers. >> You know, one of the things that's most gratifying for me when talking to costumers is when we've been able to see when you work with older, more traditional companies that are undergoing some form of digital transformation and they're trying to shift a lot of the applications into a more modern stack and environment, become more agile, etc. they frequently sort of peel off part of the business and will have a digital division that will build some innovative, typically mobile based, apps. We've seen a number of different retailers that we've worked with. Number of different travel organizations where we've started out intrumenting the mobile application because they've built a new application to give their consumers or costumers access through to their services, and at some point that application is going to merge into the backend and have to connect back into older technology. And it's been the beauty of being able to connect those two different environments together. Not starting off at what we would've got as slightly easier place to start which was the more modern application environment where we are really well suited to. But then seeing the full value of being able to instrument the front end all the way through to the backend, link that back to the costumer's experience and to the impact on the business in terms of funnel analysis from number of people using the mobile application to actually ordering something to once they've ordered it, feeling satisfied in actually receiving the goods that they ordered. Being able to instrument all of that and understand the impact of performance and availability on the overall business arcam, that's when it's been truly transformational in working with costumers and that's certainly where we'd love to help more of our costumers in that fashion. >> Alright, Roger, want to give you the final word. Of course you bring together a number of costumers here at FutureStack in the U.S as well there's a few of those run in other geographical areas but throughout the year, any other key things you want to highlight as to how costumers can get engaged even more. >> Yeah, I mean, we've got a sort of what I would argue is a tiered approach to costumer success. At the very high end of our engagement model we have a significant number of resources. Solution architects, costumer success managers that we can deploy directly with our costumers. We typically do that in conjunction with them, build out success plans, etc. What we looking at investing Heavily at the moment is also having a good understanding of what the ideal costumer journey is like. Realizing that a costumer can come to an event like this and learn about our product but the best way for them to experience that is in the course of using the product. So heavy focus on product lead growth and how we actually deliver better value through the product itself, remove friction and adoption and getting to better value. We want to automate some of that costumer journey so that we know that if you've just signed up and, for instance, you've configured you're agent and you've done your learning policy but you haven't yet configured a custom apdex on that application or you haven't understood what your key transactions are, we've got all that data in the backend. So we're working really hard to understand how we get that information back out to costumers and go hey we know you haven't necessarily done this yet, here's some access to great assets. A short video clip, a self paced learn guide that somebody can get on demand from an LMS system. So trying to use a combination of direct resource investment, events like this where it's great to make announcements like we did about the six grade innovations and then increasingly using digital through the products but also through just the general costumer journey to say hey this is really important content and information, you should look at this now 'cause it's going to add value in what you're doing today. >> Alright, well Roger Scott, Chief Customer Officer at New Relic, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks so much, it's been great talking to you. >> All right. I'm Stu Minimen back with lots more here at New Relic FutureStack 2019 in New York City. Thanks for watching theCUBE. (outro music)

>>From Las Vegas, it's the cube covering AWS reinvent 2018 brought to you by Amazon web services entails their ecosystem partners. >>Okay. Welcome back everybody to the cube live in Las Vegas for AWS Amazon web services reinvent 2018 upshot four with David, Dave, our sixth year covering AWS reinvent. We EV except for the first year we weren't there, but certainly it's been fun to watch the massive, massive rive of the wave of the cloud and Amazon's discipline and execution. Our next guest is Roger Barga, general manager, robotics and autonomous services for Amazon web services. Great to have you thank you for joining us. It's great to be here today. So a lot of stuff to talk about this, Amazon's got like this cult personality, or they do cool things. Uh, they innovate as well as they take care of the basic cloud needs more compute, better networking, more storage, or the core engine, uh, robotics, autonomous, you think of cars, you think of future flying drones, maybe in the future. >>What's going on? What are you, what are you working on? I think it mentioned explain what your job is and what you're doing at Amazon. I think it's super important. We actually look at robots as being anything that census computes and acts, and that opens up such a wide range of the definition of robot from a washing machine to escape the system to the robots. We think of actually that's the full spectrum is what we're trying to address. And we've announced a new service called AWS robo maker. It is designed to support the end to end application development life cycle for building intelligent robot, deploying it to one 10 hundreds, thousands of robots out in the field, monitoring them. We are really addressing the developer need on how to build and scale and run a robotics business. You know, what really resonates with me and, uh, with you guys at Andy's keynote this morning was he used the word builder a lot of times, um, tool for the right job. >>I think that really connects with the culture that we're seeing in the world today. Maker fair started it out. Robotics clubs in high schools were probably at an all time high in terms of interests. It's not just a nerdy geek thing. It's actually kind of mainstream. People are attracted to rabbis. People have wearables. So you're seeing a world where technology and robotics are colliding. So this kind of falls into the new kind of persona developers that's out there. Who's building a robotic stuff. It used to be some like special group of people. Not anymore. Explain how you guys are going after the developers with this. Okay. So it is very focused on the developer. And we started talking to our internal customers who are building robots. We started talking to external customers, building robots to really understand the struggles that they had and have to face. >>And you actually realized that the roboticists tend to actually are deepened hardware, drivers, actuators, sensors, and they are forced to be software engineers at the same time, because there's just not ready-made software and they have to go roll their own tooling. So we're actually providing them with the tools so they can actually focus on the hardware and the innovation that goes on there, or adding the intelligence to the robot to carry out the more meaningful task. And again, we've had conversations with companies that are, that are building small appliances that basically they think of as a robot, a dishwasher that has sensors, they've actually sense how the water flow is going the temperature and then take action all the way to our group. That's actually putting a robot in the space station to take photographs all over underwater robots, air robots, and the drones. So those deed came in robotic competitions, right? >>You're familiar with those, right? It was all high school kids. And there's always a hardware team, which is kind of clear. And then the software team, which always struggled. So I'm envisioning these guys are now going to be using robo maker as part of that team. So if I understand it, the mission is kind of develop secure, deploy, and manage robotic apps. That's really what you guys are a little bit more also, please. So we've actually bundled in our cloud service for machine learning, for analytics and for monitoring. And so now with Amazon Polly and Amazon Lex integration, you can talk to your robot, your robot can respond to you. We can stream the video off the robot through Kinesis, video streams and send it to recognition. So the robot can actually see, you'll be able to see what your robot is seeing, run it through recognition. >>You can identify what it's, what it's seeing and be able to tell it, go to the refrigerator. And it knows where the refrigerator is something else we have done. I think it's interesting to share with you is that we've actually working with something called the robot operating system, which is the most commonly used open source software framework for robotics ROS. Um, we have contributed all of our cloud extensions as open source to the community. And we're also technical steering committee members for Ross two, which is the next generation of Ross. We like to think of it as a commercial grade version of Ross, the Linux for robots. And we're also contributing open source to that as well, because what you'll find is this is what developers are using and reusing. So if you have a sensor or an actuator for a robot you'd like to use, you're probably going to find ross' package already out there to actually drive that sensor or drive that actuator that you can use. >>And now you see new ones for our cloud services that you can turn monitoring on machine learning services on as well. So you contribute to open source community you're so that's going to accelerate the adoption. So you're also making it easier. I want you to explain how you guys are working to do that because if this kind of continues on this track is going to remove some of the blockers or the barriers to get into this and that's to get the applications up and running, which should have a impact on like fleet management to, you know, anything. I mean, that's really the problem statement here. Isn't it, it really isn't, it's really what our mission is. We're always looking at developers and how we can accelerate them and make them more productive. Let's say the three of us wanted to go off and build a robotics application. >>We'd have to make sure that the environment and all of our machines are the same, because you might have a DLL, a different DLL or a different package, which means when we deploy to the robot, we're breaking it. We're not consistent. We actually offer a cloud development environment for robotics. With one click off the AWS management console. You can choose the operating system that you'd like to deploy to your robot. It'll download it. It'll configure that for you. It'll create scalable storage to store the artifacts. As we build our robot and try different algorithms out it'll provision compute for, to compile our, our robot application. We even have pre-built applications to get you started and you have access to all the ROS packages. And so within minutes we could it be up and working together, writing a robotics application. That's just part of it though. >>So again, I talked about the cloud service extensions, but simulation is such a huge thing because we may not even have a robot bill yet. And we want to simulate our robot. We offer pre-built worlds like a room in a house or a retail store or a racetrack for the race car that you heard about today. And you can drop your robot in these environments and test it. You can turn a physics model on and say, my robots carrying 500 pounds simulate. When you're happy with it, then you can deploy that over the air to your actual robot and the simulation. You can actually run hundreds of them in parallel, faster than wall clock time. So it's literally, we could actually do a thousand simulation hours, probably in 15 or 20 minutes to test our robot and all this compute, you spin up a supercomputer, basically bring it all together. >>You mentioned the formula. One thing, that's interesting. What insights can come into this. And I want to get down to the intelligence piece because when I met Andy, I just wrote an article yesterday on Forbes with my, on my interview with him, he made a comment. I want to add to the conversation. He said, the clouds are the brains on premise as their environment. So robots will deep rains. So talk about the connection to the AWS. Yes. So that's a key part, right? It connects to the, they got a lot of brains. So you got a lot of opportunities to connect services. What kinds of services do you envision connecting to the robots? Okay. So what was announced today with the race car it's at that car is actually trained in robo maker through simulation, through reinforcement learning. And so hundreds of simulations of the car, trying to go around the track, all that information is being fed to SageMaker, which is using its reinforcement learning to actually build an algorithm, a better algorithm, and then pulling it back to the car and trying it over and over again. >>That's how you actually train the car and you see that beautiful partitioning with the cloud, big compute, reinforcement learning, large datasets. The car wants you to deploy the machine learning model to the car. It can actually continue to set up signals for more information. So as the car is being used for racing, you're still learning. It's still updating the model. So again, this beautiful part, how's that how's that data flow. So you have data coming off the car, you send it back up to the cloud, you then that's where the heavy modeling occurs. And then you push it back down. The small machine learning model, back down, we have Kinesis data streams. We also have IOT MQTT messages. We can send back up to the cloud and you really start to see the role of the cloud. When we have hundreds of devices out, each one might make a mistake every once in a while, but collectively you're getting a large training set for returning a model and pushing it back down. >>It's where deep learning really adds value, too. It really is. And you mentioned adding more personality to it before we came on camera robot, you saw, this is really kind of where it's going to really kind of make it personalized. It, it is. And in fact, Leah, it's this it's a robot that's made by by robot care systems, excuse me, robot care services. And Leah is an intelligent robotic Walker. Absolutely brilliant. The elderly and disabled canal live more independent, more agile lives. Um, it has 72 sensors since compute act. It figures out what the user is trying to do. The user now can actually interact with it with voice through our Amazon Polly and Amazon's Lex integrations. So with the walkers across the room, the user can say, Leah, come to me and Leah will actually motor over to the user user can get on. >>Leah will sense that it's carrying load and it can say, Leah, let's go to the front door and Leah will start moving our way to the front door. That's just so natural. And that's the impact of real life impact of that. People who live alone, could it be diabetes or maybe something as they get sick robot could be tied into a health meter. I mean, this is kind of real world scenarios that aren't far away. No they're happening now. It's happening right now. And again, you're starting to see the value that robots are going to bring to our lives. And again, robotics has to have such hard problems to solve with the hardware and that algorithm, the writing. We really don't want the other work to have to be a burden for them. We really want to simplify that. So I'll talk about the CHAM, the total market adjustability here, because the F the formula one, the developers, I get that Jennifer's I get the formula one. Is there a market for robots? Who's doing it. Where is it? Is, is it embryonic and early? Is it, how's this forming you in your mind? Um, marketplace, as we've looked at this, we have been amazed at all the places we're finding robots. Again, we see robots underwater. We see drones in the air. We see robotic arms and factories. We see them in education. I have yet to see an area where a robot can assist or carry out tasks to help humans. How about doing interviews? >>Yeah. We're not gonna be replaced yet. Although we have >>Robot on the cube one, despite the fact that we'd like to think how advanced robots are, you can't replace humans, not the NR, the mobility, our intelligence or personality. So if the number of things robots could do keeps getting, >>Yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't that long ago, robots couldn't climb stairs. >>That's right. That's right. Amazing. Let's talk about your goals for the year. What are you trying to do with the, with the service? Um, and what can people expect to see coming from AWS? We're definitely going to be listening to our customers now that we've launched and we're working backwards to actually add features that they tell us. They'd like to see. We're really pleased that we've got a partnership with first robotics. We want to work with with first, actually bring our service to allow students and learners of all ages to learn robotics. We have an education and research program with about 25 universities with more signing on as well. They're very interested in using the service for teaching robotics and for education and research as well. So I really want to, we really want to push hard there's because we think robotics has a great future. >>It's going to help our lives. And we think robo makers, the way that they're going to do, I can tell you from my four living in Palo Alto, which is again, a different zip code than middle America, robotics is hot. People like robotics. They like to play with the robotics. And it has now it's software democratization tools and frameworks. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to code sheet language. Yeah. Yeah. That's I think the power of our service is that basically the developers no longer limited to the code. They write in the software. They can hardware that can put on their robot that can take advantage of cloud services, glue them together and start building a robot. Well, we are very interested in covering, uh, what goes on with your area and certainly want to know more about how the community's developing. Certainly the open source I think, is going to be a very big part of your plan. We agree. We're committed. Roger. Thanks for coming on. Great insight, robo maker. One of the top announcements is a great demo on the keynote, uh, from, uh, the formula one, uh, spokesperson. I think the executive great demo that I think is worth watching. Congratulations on the success or cube coverage here. No robots here. We're live coverage. Re-invent 2018. We right back.

>> Announcer: From Chicago, it's theCUBE. Covering Veritas Vision Solution Day 2018. Brought to you by Veritas. >> Welcome back to Chicago, everybody. We're here covering the Veritas Solution Days. Veritas used to have a big tent event last year. This year they're going out to, I think, seven cities around the globe. Probably touching more people than they would've with the single event, but they're road warriors, and we're here with them. theCUBE is the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante, Roger Dombrowski is here. He's a data protection specialist at dcVAST, one of Veritas' big solution partners based here in Chicago. Roger, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks for having me, Dave. >> You're very welcome. So, data protection specialist, so you're into it. Data protection is changing quite dramatically. There's cloud, there's the edge... We just talked to Jyothi about AI, and so lots is changing. From your prospective, how are customers responding to those change? What are some of the key drivers? >> A lot of the key drivers... You used to be able to differentiate with backups and things like that. Now it's table stakes, it's an insurance policy. And that's kind of the old classic way of looking at it, but I think with today what we're finding, and I think Veritas is doing such a great job of, is mining value out of stuff that's even been around a while. So while the workloads have changed, our best practices haven't changed, our strategies haven't changed. It's where things are going, but it's also mining that metadata to get more value out of the backups than to just be a insurance policy. >> So I mean one of the obvious things is, I've talked about, is DR, but DR is still insurance. It's just more insurance and maybe you're killing two birds with one stone, but when you talk about mining data and analytics, and getting more out of the metadata, give us some other examples of how customers are exploiting and leveraging that investment in what used to be just backup pure insurance. >> Yeah, and in fact it's kind of interesting 'cause Info Map's been out for a little while, and I think we've been going around to the customer base with a slide stack, maybe a couple of slides, and really underselling the value. And what I've had a great opportunity to do with a couple of customers here very recently, is get into some deep use cases, and it's been an eye opening experience. And what's so amazing is the date we're and the information we're gathering has been in their backups for years, right? It's like the data has been there. It's been on tap, we're tapping that with Info Map. Finding stale data, ransomware, age data, all kinds of better ways to tier. You know some of the discussions were around cloud. And hey do you really want put cat videos in the cloud? Well, we can find those things with the backups. And we've been looking a that data for years. We're finally now pulling the value out of that data. >> And one of those speakers earlier today talked about, he took us all the way back to the federal rules of civil procedure, and bringing together IT and legal. So those discussions now with GDPR, et cetera, coming back to the fore. And it's important you don't want data that could be a legal risk hanging around. Everybody says, oh big data, keep all the data. And General Council's go I don't want to keep all the data. So the backup corpus is a way you're saying to investigate that and reduce risks, and also potentially identify diamonds in the rough. That you can-- >> Absolutely. >> You can mine. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. Let's talk about. I want to ask you about, there was a little company called Network Appliance, I think they were founded back in the '80s, they changed their name in the 2000s to NetApp, got out of that appliance, but appliances are still strong in the marketplace. Everybody's talking about software-defined. I think even Veritas uses it as part of its description of who they are and yet they continue to announce appliances as do others. Why appliances, from your practitioner perspective, what's going on there? >> Well, actually there's a customer whose actually here at the even today, and one of the things that really sold them on that whole form factor was the larger the company gets the more siloed, different aspects of business are. If you know if you wanted to make a change or implement something, you'd have the network team, you'd have change control, you'd have the OS team, the application teams. The appliance form factor's allowing the backup admins to wrangle in a lot of that crazy, hey, I've got to have 20 groups involved in something. Purpose built and performance tuned. I mean see it all the time. Customers, they still look at us and go, well, I think I can do it cheaper, and I've seen them try to do it, and maybe they'll save a few bucks, but the soft cost in terms of headaches, and problems, and tuning, and just limitations of building your own versus the appliance form factor. >> It's still going to run on hardware? So you're saying let the vendor do the integration and that's sort of the appeal of the appliance. There are use cases for PureSoftware based solutions, but if you just want to set it and (laughs) forget it. >> Roger: It really is that yeah. >> The appliance comes to play. What are some of the other big things and trends that you see, but let's talk cloud. You know the whole, I've often said renting is always more expensive than owning. You don't necessarily want, if you want to rent a car for a day, well go for it but if you want to drive at 100,000 miles, it probably make sense to buy it or even lease it. We heard today about cloud repatriation, I mean that's certainly a narrative that a lot of the on-prem guys want to talk about. What are you seeing in the marketplace? >> I'm seeing, I mean even before. I mean, we'll go back four or five years. Everyone's asking me, Roger, I want to get off of tape. Let's go to the cloud. What's been so interesting is to do those calculations, and I think that some people fly over that 100 miles an hour, and Veritas was one of the first ones to actually preserve deduplication all the way through the process. So it really changed, I call it that cost versus rent, or own versus rent ratio where depending on how long you're keeping data, how well the data dedupes, things like that, that's going to affect your cost model. And that's really, in my role at dcVAST, that's a big part of what I do, is to take the feature sets that Veritas brings to the table and apply them, and say, hey, does this make sense to put this in the cloud? Should this be on prem? And the great thing again is Veritas isn't. This isn't your dad's backup anymore. I mean the Access Appliance, the Flex Appliance, some of these things we're bringing to the table, Info Map, these other tools, we're not just doing backups, we're doing ancillary things to all that. >> Just geeking it out a little bit. You just talking about dedupe through the whole process. You mean without having to rehydrate the data. >> Roger: Exactly, exactly. >> Which is just a time consuming and complicated process. >> Roger: Absolutely. >> That's a technology they're pretty proud of, they talk about it a lot. >> Very, very, very much so. And I mean, if you look it, we've always been able to do it but it's the cost, right? If I have to virtualize an appliance in the cloud, it's a very expensive proposition, but if I can dedupe and all I'm doing is storing small fragments in a cheap storage target in the cloud, that's all better for the economics for the customer. >> All right, Roger, I'll give you the last word. Takeaways from today, and any other thoughts? >> Oh, I loved hearing about the telemetry. There's some new features coming in. I've heard some of this material before, but again, to hear the different perspectives, customers talking about the technology and where we're going, I'm glad we got to go and participate. >> All right Roger Dombrowski. Thanks very much for sharing your perspective. >> Thanks a lot, Dave. >> Great to see you. >> Take care. >> All right, keep it right there everybody, theCUBE. We'll be back at Veritas Vision in Chicago right after this short break, I'm Dave Vellante. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Live from New York City, It's theCUBE! Covering Levnovo Transform 2.0. Brought to you by Lenovo. (techno music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of Lenovo Transform here in New York City. I'm your host Rebecca Knight along with my co-host Stu Miniman. We're joined by Rod Lappin. He is the senior vice president in marketing here at Lenovo. And Roger Cox, the research vice president at Gartner. Thank you much, gentlemen for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks for having us! Excited. >> So the big news for the day, NetApp, Lenvovo Two global powerhouses joining forces I want to hear Rod, the Lenovo speil, and then I want to hear your analysis of the deal and what you make of it. So why don't you go ahead. >> Yes, so obviously we're really really excited, Rebecca. It's a great day for us. I think it's something that we've been really planning with NetApp for obviously a long time, and to actually have it come to fruition is really exciting for all of us, right. So as you would have known, probably, our storage offering in market has been quite small up until now. We're addressing about 15% of the market. With this new deal with NetApp we're sort of in the TAM the target market. We can after up to about 92%. We've been quite good at storage. We've been growing about 2X the market average in Flash, over 100% year on year, but we haven't really had the full product range that we've needed to really address out customers' needs, and so, now having this, having this deal now with NetApp means we can go after our customers and really bring value to them the way that we have wanted and definitely the way our customers are asking us to. >> And so that's my question. Was it customer driven? Was it them saying: We just need you to able to do more or what? >> I think if you look at our core business last quarter, Gartner, obviously, ranked us as the fastest growing server business globally. We grew 68% year on year on our revenue last quarter. And so, with the momentum we've got now as a business, we're seeing our customers want us to do more. We're number one in customer satisfaction, number one in reliability, so they see value in us generally but we had sort of what I would classify as a subsegment of the storage market that we want to address. And of course our customers are saying to us: Hey, we want you to do more for us because we like the way you've performed. So it's been good for us. We're excited >> Yeah. >> So, Rodger you know a thing or two about the storage industry and NetApp specifically. So give us the customer viewpoint. You talked to a lot of them. >> Well, first of all let's say this is one of the better kept secrets because it never leaked out. So really haven't been getting customer calls on this event yet but I'm sure we will starting today be getting a lot >> Yeah, they brought a few analysts down to RTP in July and I remember, Rodger you said: What do I do when the customers call? and they're like, shh, shh. Customers aren't going to call. We're going to keep it under wraps. >> And they did a good job of it. But anyways, what it means, I think, to Lenovo is it really elevates Lenovo's standing as a provider of IT technology for the data center. So they now have, not only a very competitive server offering, which Rod's talked about quite a bit, they have what many believe to be one of the best storage offerings in the business. And now they can go compete head to head against Dell EMC, as well as with HPE, which would be the two larger competitors that they have to deal with. So it's going to be very good in terms of providing an alternative to clients for data center technology-involved storage. Good thing. We like competition. >> Absolutely, and we want to be part of it. I think up until now we probably haven't been able to. So when you look at how we're going to market, my field sales team has been planning with the NetApp field's also. We've been basically coordinating how we go to market where do we attack together, where do we have conflict, where do we not. So we actually go in and really focus in on those core competitors that Roger's just described which is where we want to go. >> In the keynote this morning it said from a channel standpoint, there's not a lot of overlap which, on the one hand, I'm saying: Well, sounds like we'll need a lot of training then. But how do you hit the ground running fast? >> So we are already ready to go. We start shipping tomorrow, so that's the good thing about this announcement. Like Roger said, we kept it under wraps, but we are ready to manufacture and go. So, I think it's a really exciting spot for us. From a go-to-market perspective in the channel, NetApp has traditionally been very much about engaging end users, fulfilling through the channel, but engaging end users. Where Lenovo's got a much stronger forte around mid-market and SMB. And we've got a much stronger forte in emerging market, so if you actually start to split geographically the world up a little bit and then you can start to split how we got to market a little you can actually find some really big parts of the market that we don't conflict at all that we can go after. >> But you see, from my point of view, the bigger challenge they have is to go to market. Now they could say there's not much overlap, but you know there's always overlap. There's going to be certain accounts where Lenovo already has a position, and maybe NetApp has a position, too. Then, who's going to do what given a time? So, the biggest challenge that Lenovo has here is also a challenge for NetApp is how they manage together the go to market motion, as well as the service and support because Lenovo's going to have level one, level two support responsibility. They're going to have that revenue to go for support. We'll see how that works out over time. >> I want to ask you what your advice would be to Lenovo leadership in terms of, this deal enables it to go after bigger players and to take over more of the market. But when it's now going head to head with Dell EMC , what do you think it should focus on? >> I think it should focus more on marketing. The products speak for themselves. The competency of these products are well-known. Besides this, it gives Lenovo the opportunity to become more cloud-friendly, too. Because they also have access to all of the software out of NetApp's cloud data services organization. So my main advice would be to Rod, because he's responsible for this, (Rod and Rebecca laugh) is put more wood behind arrow. Get Huawei to put up more money to accentuates the marketing of the product. Create more enthusiasm about the fact that you're now up at another level in terms of being an IT provider to the data center. >> It's a well kept secret as you started out by saying >> Yeah! >> That's right so we've got a business case that we've put together that's starting today obviously. Which involves us getting out and starting to hit the ground running with a lot of media. There's a lot of social media noise today on it obviously. Thanks very much to people like yourselves which is great. And I think we're going to see a lot more marketing-based initiative that run both through the channel as well as to the end users across our, what I classify as our T-1 countries to start with. To Roger's point, though, when we look at the go-to-market, we basically categorize in all the accounts into four boxes. Those accounts where NetApp's very strong and Lenovo's very strong which means Lenovo's strong from the server perspective. NetApp's very strong from the storage perspective. >> FAP would be one of those. >> That's right. That's a very good example. And in that environment, we're going to collaborate and show them we're communicating with each other and ultimately, not fight with each other. We're going to recognize that we want to continue to protect our server business. They're protecting their storage business. We don't want to touch that. In a place where Lenovo, for example, may be weak and NetApp very strong, so they're got a very good storage relationship, we want them to bring our servers into that space. Because obviously if they don't bring us in, then one of our key competitors that is also competitive in NetApp is going to have a foot in the door there somewhere. So, we're going to drive a little bit of a different strategy in that environment. Then, we've got obviously the third environment where Lenovo's very strong from a server perspective and NetApp's nowhere. In that environment, it's free fields for Lenovo to go after that with our new storage array. And then obviously, where we're both neither engaging those customers, it's in acquisition for both. We're going to play and ultimately go after them. There's some really great things that we've been able to put together with this relationship. Like for example, comp neutrality. So, the NetApp teams when we go into that third and fourth box I was just talking about, the NetApp sales force is going to paid the same whether it goes on a Lenovo hardware or goes on the NetApp hardware. So, we've got some pieces that sort of ensure that we don't have conflicts and we're all aligned to ultimately grow and compete with Dell EMC and HPE. >> So, Roger There have been some interesting server and storage partnerships. I think back a decade ago, Dell and EMC did billions of dollars together. It eventually broke up, and then what do you know, it went back together. I think five years ago, NetApp had pretty strong server partnership there. The storage market has changed a lot in the five to ten years. Tell our audience a little bit how NetApp's different, how the storage market's different, and how customers should be thinking about an arrangement like this. >> Well, the storage market's different because there's more alternatives for storage. There's the Cloud: AWS, Azure, even Google Cloud. You get over to Asia, Alibaba over in Asia and so forth. So that's had a very large impact on on-premises storage. The other one is hyper converged. Lenovo's very much a hyper converged business. They have relationships with Nutanix. They've got them with VMware. They have them with Pivot3 and some others. And so, all of these things come together to create a different alternative to the classical three-tier infrastructure: server, networking, and storage. So, all those things are going to exist. And, the upright storage market, while it may be a declining market from a revenue perspective, has a long payoff. It's going to be like mainframe, so it'll be here forever. Like Tate, here forever. It's like me. I'll be here forever. (Rod and Rebecca laugh) So right now, Stu, we're seeing a little bit of a bubble. So we are getting a bubble interns of, this is a good time by the way for Lenovo to have this partnership because there is more likelihood of increase spending for IT. Good economy in the States, good economy over in Europe. Good economy around the world for that matter. I think it's going to last another couple years. 2018, 2019, maybe in the 20's before it starts tailing off again. So the way people are talking to me now, it's kind of like a flush. Hey, we got all this money. We're going to go spend it. Refresh everything. Get more over into Flash. I think they will sell a lot of Flash, even with the entry product, what they call a DE. I think they'll sell a lot of Flash there. And of course up in the DM series, which is the equivalent of NetApp's A200, A300 which are top tier products. They'll sell a lot of Flash there, too. >> I would say as what you just mentioned, the traditional storage market is reducing, but Flash is obviously growing. NetApp last quarter was the number one Flash company in the world. 27.6% market share-- >> Where do I check that out? (Rebecca laughs) That comes from another source >> That comes from another source, yeah sorry. But they hit number one last quarter according to an unknown source. But I think that's really encouraging, right? And at that part of the market Flash is about 30-40% of the overall storage market right now and easily the fastest growing. So this product range really drives an all-Flash array type solution that we can actually take advantage of. >> Rod, we want to get your perspective China, too. That's a big piece of this announcement. Maybe you an talk a little bit about that. I think Roger's got some comments on it. >> Well, think this is a good deal for NetApp. This is the reason why I think maybe the channel conflict won't be as bad as it was for the Dell EMC guys. This is the way for NetApp. NetApp wants to go more and more towards the Cloud. You look at their strategy. It's going more and more towards the Cloud with all of the Cloud data services software that they're developing. And so they're putting more and more emphasis on that. At the same time, the relationship they have with Lenovo gives them the opportunity to get really a creative revenue that otherwise would not get. Allows them maybe to reduce the burden that they would have under manufacturing SGNE expenses and stuff like that. But the big benefit is China. They JB in China is going to give NetApp a entry into China that otherwise would not be able to get because of the laws that the People's Republic of China have. It's a big deal. >> I think we're really excited about China. Obviously that's one of the cornerstones of the deal. So it's an independent organization that's going to be set up. Lenovo will have 51% ownership. NetApp will have 49. Seven board members. Four of them will be Lenovo. Three of them will be NetApp. And ultimately we are going to have that organization just purely specializing on the Lenovo product that is designed by NetApp originally. And it's going to be doing joint IP. We'll have joint developers in there. We'll be able to leverage my existing sales force in China, that's our traditional sales force, to go and drive for everything from a tier one city all the way down to a tier six, tier seven city in PRC. But, that joint venture itself will just be a specialist organization specifically on storage. It's really exciting. >> The thing about the JB it's very very important. Whatever is developed by the JB has to stay in China. That software cannot be taken outside of China because of all the geopolitical issues that you have around the world. Big point. >> Yeah, and a challenge. >> Absolutely It's a challenge that both NetApp and Lenovo have to manage with respect to each other. >> Just for the record, I'm not totally sure. If we develop something in the joint venture, I'm not totally sure that we have to keep that in China. >> I'm not saying that legally you have to. I'm saying emotionally you should. >> Emotional we should. >> Ahhh... >> I was going to say... >> There might be some government concerns on some of that. >> I think it's always going to depend on the government. And we don't want to get into a geopolitical conversation. I think Europe for example will be a lot more liberally open to that sort of stuff >> Speak a little bit about the cultures coming together. NetApp. You've been working on this deal together. sometimes that can be the strength or the challenge. >> I think company cultures are always challenging. And when you get two companies that are, especially right now, as we've heard this morning in some of the sessions, turning the corner. They're both growing. They're both doing very well at the moment. So, there's always a level of confidence, shall we say, in both those situations that you've just got to break down. And I think what we've done very successfully this time is Wei Wei, and George and Kirk, and George and Henri Ricard and myself and Brad Anderson, you saw today who was actually up on stage with us today as well working with us as the executive sponsor on that side. We're lining up our executives globally. All of the field team for Henri Ricard's team and my field team globally have all been interlocking with each other. They're account planning. They're territory planning. We're really trying to break down any of the walls the way may have from a cultural perspective. And really drive a much more open conversation, so we don't get caught out early in the deal. There's a escalation process in the deal. So it goes to a geo level up and then ends up with Henri and myself to actually manage worldwide if something was to get really out of control. But, at the moment, day one, don't see any issues. Seems to be going okay, touch wood. >> They both, Brad and Kirk, said they're complementary companies. Is that your perspective, too? Would you agree with that? >> Well, I think they gave complementary purposes. The interesting thing here is this thing's coming together when both companies are on the uptick. It's not because, go back three years ago and look at where NetApp was three years ago versus where they are today. So it's coming together when both companies, and matter of fact, go back to look at Lenovo two years ago as well >> Absolutely. >> So it's been an uptick that happened here over the last three years, so this thing's coming together when both companies are doing quite well in that respect. >> So-- >> By the way I want to mention Gartner will be publishing a report in September on this transaction from NetApp's point of view. And we'll be publishing a report on in November on this transaction from Lenovo's point of view. >> Great, so one of the things people like Roger and I have to do is, we look at how we would say whether something's successful or not. So I want to get your point first too and then when you look out six, 12, 18 months from now, whether it is successful and the thing I have to say is Kirk and Brad said, well, our goal is to number three in China, and I said isn't that a low bar? Aren't you practically on day one? I mean you're two joint companies. It's going to be there? >> I can't count on my boss to be honest with you. >> You've got the sales team. I know you can do that. >> I would love to. I think at the moment let's just talk about the joint venture for a second. I think the point is at the moment we are only 15% addressable market with our existing range. And so at the moment, we're saying, hey we can address 15% of the market. That puts us way outside of the number 10 slot in PRC. So, to say we want to be number three, is quite ambitious. Especially because we want to try to do it in the next couple of years. So, I actually feel like he's being quite aggressive from a growth perspective, so I think that's quite balanced. Outside of that, I really want to measure us on profitable growth. We really want to diversify our share of wallet and our customer base. We've got a great customer base now from a server perspective. We need to really expand that to ensure that we're taking advantage of the customer feedback we've had. So, I think that's a pretty good spot. >> At the end of the day, the success of non-success of this program is in Rod's hands. (laughing) On the one hand, >> I love the pressure you're putting me under >> And then Laura, on the services support side. People will support this program if they get good quality service and support. So, you have to keep that up for this program. >> Absolutely, and at the moment, the services model is level one and level two is run by Lenovo internally and then level three escalation runs into the NetApp program. We believe we've got a model that runs well. >> A good note to end on. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE Rod and Roger. >> Thank you very much. >> Thanks for having us I appreciate it very much. It's my inaugural time here. >> First of many. I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman. We will have more from theCUBE at Lenovo Transform just in a little bit. (techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from Washington D.C., it's theCUBE covering .conf2017 Brought to you by Splunk. (techno music) >> Well, welcome back to Washington D.C. We're at the Walter Washington Convention Center as we wrap up our coverage here of .conf2017. As Dave Vellante joins me, I'm John Walls here at theCUBE, coming to you live from our nation's capital. Joined by Team AWS here. With us we have rather, Ray Zhu rather, who is a senior product manager at AWS. And Roger Barga, who is the general manager of Amazon Kinesis Services. So gentlemen, thanks for being with us, we appreciate the time. >> Absolutely, thank you for the invitation. >> Dave: Oh, you're welcome. >> You bet. Alright, so let's just jump in. The streaming data thing, right? It's just blowing up. What's inspiring that popularity of the Cloud? What's kind of lit that fire and what's going to keep it burning? >> Yeah, I think over time, I think customers really do realize the value that you can get out of by collecting, analyzing, and reacting to data in real time. Cause that really provides a very differentiated experience to their customers, you know, for example you're able to analyze your user behavior data in real time, provide them with a much more engaging experience, much more relevant content. You're able to diagnosis your service, understand your law of data issues in real time, so that when you have an issue, you can fix that right away. So that really provides a very different customer experience. So I think our customers are realizing the value of real time processing, which is why we think streaming data is gaining more and more popularity. And this is why Cloud is all the good stuff that Cloud can offer and tell the customers. It's highly scalable, so you don't need to worry about if it's going to scale later on when I scale my business. It's a matter of sort of like click of a button. We scale the infrastructure for you and we got all the resource ready for you to go on streaming data. We got super, it's very cost effective, right? So that cause we price at very low. As we keep improving the efficiency of running the service, we reduce our cost structure, we return that back to our customers as a price cut. The third thing which I think is super important is agility, right cause you don't need to set up an infrastructure, install any software, make all the configurations. Starting up a Kinesis Stream is like 15 seconds on the average console, you're done. And it really allows the developers, the customers, to move fast and purely focus their resources and effort on the things that really differentiate their customer experience. >> So very AWS like, we love AWS, we're a customer, it's our favorite Cloud. We'll go on record of saying that, you know? (laughs) We're loyal to you guys. Crowd, our Crowd Chat App runs on it, basically run our whole company on Amazon, where we can. >> Roger: Great. >> In 2013, we got the preview of Kinesis. It was a lot of buzz. It was kind of before the whole streaming meme took over. We were talkin' about real time at the time, but so maybe you can take us through the evolution of Kinesis and where we are today. >> I'd be happy to. You know, when we first built Kinesis Stream, what the company was trying to do, is we had all of the AWS billing and metering records coming from all of our services, our EC2 incidences. This was a lot of data that had to be captured. And the way we were doing it was in batch. We were storing this data in S3 buckets. We were starting large EMR jobs up at the end of day actually to aggregate them by the customer account. So say this was your bill for the end of the day. But we had customers that said actually I'd like to know what I'm spending every hour, every few minutes. And frankly that batch processing wasn't scaling. So we had to innovate and create Kinesis Streams as a real time system that was constantly aggregating all of the billing and metering records that were coming in from our customer's accounts. Totalling them in near real time and we presented our customers with a new experience of billing and insights into their billing and even forecasts of what they were spending at any given time. But we had other teams that immediately looked at Kinesis and said hey, we're dealing with real time streaming data and our customers want it delivered and aggregated and provided, so Cloud watch logs and Cloud watch metrics built on top of us. And this was the start of something which continues to this day. Other services are looking at, and even customers, are looking at a Kinesis Stream and saying, that's a really useful abstraction that we can build a new service, a new experience for our customers. And today we have over a dozen AWS and Amazon retail services that build on top of Kinesis Streams as a fundamental abstraction to offer new experiences and new insights as three events. Cloud watch events, there's a host of services, which underneath Kinesis is running, but they're offering unique value building on top of it. Which is why Kinesis today is considered a foundational service and we can't build an AWS region without Kinesis being there for all these other services to build on top of. So that's been exciting to see that kind of adoption, different uses for this fundamental abstraction called a Kinesis Stream. And you know, it's also, and we can talk later about how it's transforming analytics, which is really exciting as well. >> Well, that's a great topic. I mean, why don't we talk about that. And one of the things that we've noted about AWS, and other Cloud providers, is obviously simplicity and delivering as a service is critical. We all know about the complexity of, for instance, the Hadoop Ecosystem And the challenges that a lot of customers have. Delivering that as a service has dramatically simplified their lives. That's why you see so many people going to the Cloud. We've always predicted that is what happened. Maybe talk about that a little bit. And then we can get into the analytics discussion. >> Yeah, so again, customers are always looking at ways to actually get insights into their data to better support their customers, to better understand what's going on in their business. And of course, Hadoop had managed EMR, had been a great benefit, cause customers could move their developers into the analytics that they want to do and not worry about this undifferentiated heavy lifting of operating these services. And the same is true for Kinesis Streams. But we're seeing customers, and if you stop for a moment and think about this, data never loses it's value. It always has it's historical value for machine learning, for understanding trends over time, but the insights that data has are actually very, very perishable and they can actually turn to zero within an hour if you can't extract those insights. That's the unique area where Kinesis Streams has kept adding value to our customers. Giving 'em the ability to get instant insights into what's going on in their business, their customers, their business processes, so they can take action and improve a customer experience, or capitalize on an opportunity. So what we're seeing and the role, I believe, that streaming data, at large, plays is about giving customers real time insights and then business opportunity to improve how they run their business. >> So. >> Go ahead, please. So who's using it? I mean or what's the if there's a sweet spot or a sweet spot for an industry or vertical to use that, I mean, in terms of whether it's in a minute, an hour, or whatever, what would that be? >> Yeah, so today, I'm really pleased to see, because we have watched this evolution since 2014, but today in virtually every market segment, where data is being continuously generated, we have customers that are actually taking advantage of the real time insights that they can get out of that data virtually every market segment. I'll pick a couple of examples which are kind of fun. One is Amazon Game Studios, near and dear to our heart. Now typically games are written, they're completely developed end to end. They're shipped in a box, made available to customers, and they hope that game and the engagement has the outcome that they want. Amazon Games Studios is actually writing that game in near real time ahead of their customers, so they release a new level of the game. They will actually watch the engagement. They'll look at how customers are dying, surviving, how long they're playing. And is it traveling in the direction they want? They stream all of the multi, all of the game data from their players in real time. And they build dashboards so they can see exactly how game play is going. And if they don't like it or they think they can make an improvement, they'll get right online, change the game itself, and re-deploy the game, so the customer experience is actually, within minutes it's being evolved. Another customer I like to talk about is Hertz Publishing. We all like to read. When Hertz started making the transition of their magazines, Cosmopolitan, Car and Driver, from print to digital form, they instrumented it so they could actually watch how long was a customer reading an article, how were their comments trending in Twitter and in Facebook. So they could actually get a sense of engagement with an article. Whether the article should be rebroadcast to other digital channels, other magazines. Should they change the article? Double down and write a new one. So again, they're engagement and then the business metrics by which they measure engagement and readers, readership have all increased because they have that intimate understanding of what's happening in real time. So again, every market segment, where there's data continuously generated, customers are using this to provide a better experience. >> That phrase undifferentiated heavy lifting we first heard it widely in the tech community in 2012 in Andy Jassy's keynote at Reinvent and it's become sort of a mantra. It probably was one well before that inside of AWS. And often times AWS doesn't talk about TCL but it's not the main reason why people go to the Cloud. You emphasized that a lot. And there's all this debate. Oh a cheaper on prem, oh no, Cloud is cheaper. But this idea of essentially eliminating labor that is doing that non-differentiated heavy lifting is something that you guys have really lived and popularized. We see that labor cost shifting from provisioning luns into other areas, up the stack, if you will. Application, digital business, analytics, et cetera. What are you guys seeing, in terms of how organizations, I mean, there's two types of organizations, right, the Cloud native guys who obviously didn't have the resources, but then enterprises that are bringing their business to the Cloud. Where are they shifting that undifferentiated heavy lifting labor towards? >> To. And they are in fact moving it up stream. We think about it very abstractly. You know, operating servers doesn't really bring any special IP that that company possesses to bear. It is about, you know, just managing servers, managing the software on it, figuring our how to scale. These are problems which we are able to take away. And we've often worked with customers and showed them the value of moving to our managed servers. And the excitement from the leadership, from their customers, is like wonderful. That project we couldn't, we aren't able to fund, if we can just onboard here, onto Kinesis for example, or any one of our managed services, then we can immediately move and get that fund project that we really wanted to fund, it would actually be unique value as move them over to that. So they're actually moving upstream as you said. And they're actually leveraging their unique understanding of their industry, their customer, to go ahead and add value there. So it is a distribution and I think in a very productive way. >> I want to ask about the data pipeline. So one of the values that AWS brings is simplification. When I look, however, at the data pipeline, it's very rich. If I look at the number of data services, Kinesis, Aurora, DYNAMO dv, EBS, S3, Glacier, each of these has a programming interface that is, I use the word primitive not in pejorative way but >> Roger: Yes, yes. >> But a deep level, low level. And so the data pipeline gets increasingly complex. There's probably a benefit of that, because I get access to the primitives, but it increases complexity. First of all, is that a fair assertion on my part? And how are your customers dealing with that? >> Be happy to take that one, yeah? >> Sure. >> Okay. >> Yep, so I think from our perspective all these different capabilities and technologies by customer choice. We build these services because our customers ask for them. And we order a wide variety so that people can choose for the developers who want to have full control over the entire staff, they have access to these lower level services. You know as you mentioned a few, DYNAMO dv, Kinesis Stream, S3, but we also build an abstraction layer on top of these different services. We also have a different set of customers asking for simplicity, just doing a specific type of things. I want you guys to take care of all the complexities, I just want that functionality. The example would be services like Kinesis Files, Kinesis Analytics, which is the abstraction layer we put on top. So for customers who are looking for simplicity, we also have these kind of capability for them. So I think at the end of the day, it's customer choice and demand. That's why we have this rich functionality and capabilities at AWS. >> So you guys have already solved that problem essentially, the one that I was sort of putting forth. >> So I won't say, I like Ray's answer. It's about listening to the customer. Cause in many cases if we would have, if we said, hey, we're going to go build a monolithic service that simplifies this, we would potentially disappoint many other customers. Say actually I really do want to have that low level control. >> Right. >> I'm used to having that. But when we hear customers asking for something which we can then translate to a service, we'll build a new service. And we will actually up level it and actually build a simpler abstraction for a targeted audience. So for us it's all about listening to the customers, build what they want, and if it means that we're going to actually bring two or three of our services together to work in concert for our customer, we'd do that in a heartbeat. >> Yeah that low level control also allows you to be presumably maybe not more agile but more responsive to the market demand. Because if you did build that monolithic service, you would essentially be locking yourselves in to a fossilized set of functions and services that you can't easily respond to market conditions. Is that a fair way to think about it? >> That is a fair statement, because basically our customers can look at these API's and together for these various services, realize how to use these API's in concert to get an end and done. And should we have precise feedback on a specific service, we can add a new API or tailor it over time. So it does give us a great deal of agility in working on these individual services. >> So Ray, you're a product guy and you're talking about listening to customers, right? And coming up with products, it's what you do. What are you hearing now? Where do people want to go now? Because I assume you've been in the market place for four years now with this, evolution is (clears throat), excuse me, perpetual, constant, so where do you want to take it? What's the next level or what's percolating in the back of your mind right now? >> Yeah, I think people always looking for different type of tools that they're familiar with or they want to use to analyze these data in real time and provide a differentiated customer experience. A concrete example I want to give is actually why we're here. At the Splunk Conference is at Kinesis we have a service called Kinesis Firehose. Based on customer demand when we launched Kinesis Streams, customers wanted to make sure they had access to data sooner than they used to do, but they want to use the tools they're familiar with. And apparently there's a diverse set of tools different customers want to use. We started with S3 for data lay, kind of storage, we used Reshift as a data warehouse. And overtime we heard from customers say, hey, we want you to use Splunk analyze the data. But we would like to use Kinesis Firehose and suggest a solution. Can you guys do something about it? So actually the two teams got together. We thought it's a strong customer value proposition, great capability for other customers. So we start this partnership. We're here actually earlier this day, today, we made the announcement actually, Kinesis Firehose is going to support Splunk as data of redestinations. And this integration is not in beta program. It's open for public sign up. Just go to the Kinesis Files website. You can sign up, get early access. So basically from today, you can use Kinesis Firehose in real time streaming (mumbles) service to get real data into your Splunk cluster. We're super excited about it. >> And okay, and I can access those Splunk services through the market place or what's the way in which I bring Splunk to? >> Good question. For this integration actually we're just a different version of Splunk. You can run Splunk on AWS using ECT extensions. You can access through the market place. You can have your, you can use native Splunk Cloud, which manage all the servers for you. You can also use Splunk on print in that regard. >> Okay. What have you guys learned since the orig, the first reinvent? I mean, I think, and again, I don't mean this as a pejorative but AWS is pretty dogmatic in its view of the world as you you are very strict (laughs) about your philosophy. But at the same time, as you learn about the enterprise, you've evolved. What have you learned about enterprise customers in that five, seven year journey of really getting intense with the enterprise? >> Yeah, that's a good question. But again, we're dogmatic about we always listen to our customers. We will never deviate from that. It's part of our culture. And the customers need to tell us where they want to go. And I'll tell you when we first started with Kinesis, just to answer your question, it was about low latency. We want to get that answer really fast, cause our ad tech customers are some of our very early customers, so it really was about that that extremely low latency response. As even our customers have started to look at Kinesis as a fundamental abstraction on which to put all of their business data in and now they're telling their customers well you should, if their IT customers within their company, if you want any business data, attach to the stream and pull it out. So now we're seeing less emphasis on low latency and to end processing, but increase request I want to be able to attach a dozen consumers, because this stream is actually supporting my entire enterprise. I want to have security. So we recently released encryption at rest. Our customers are asking for support for a VPC flow logs, which we hope to be talking with you about very soon. So now it's becoming actually very mainstream to actually, for the enterprise, and they want all the enterprise ready features, all the certifications, Fed Rep, Hippa, et cetera. So now we're actually seeing the Kinesis Stream itself being put into the enterprise as a fundamental building block for how they're going to run their business and how they're going to build their applications within the business. >> So that philosophy, I mean, you are customer driven first and there's a lot a, Andy Jassy says, there's a lot of ways to compete. You can be competitive oriented, but we're customer oriented. And I, it's clear, you guys do that. At the same time, customers sometimes don't know what they want, so you have to be good at decoding. >> Roger: Yes. >> If you listen to all your customers, you know, five years ago, they say, well we're not going to put any data in there. Sensitive data in the Cloud. Now everybody has sort of gotten over that. You said, alright, well we have to make it more secure. We have to get, you know, whatever certified, et cetera, et cetera. There's an art to this, listening to customers, isn't there? >> It gets back to one of our leadership principles of we always work customer backwards. We need to understand what they want, what experience they'd like to have. We have to anchor everything on that. But there is this element of invent and simplify. Because our customers may guess at what a solution is, but let's make sure we really understand what they want, what they need, the constraints under which that solution must offer. Then we go back to our engineering teams and other teams and we invent and simplify on their behalf. And we're not done there. We actually then bring these back to customers and in fact, why we're here today, we've spent two days talking to customers but even before this collaboration with Splunk began, we actually brought customers in and it turned out, their customers were often our customers. So we started talking, what is the problem? And we started with the very clear problem stain. And once both of our teams, we've loved working with Splunk, they work very customer backwards, like we do. And together once we understood this is the problem we are trying to address, and we had no preconception about how we're going to do it, but we worked backwards on what it would take to actually get that experience for our customers. And we're actually here beta testing it. And we're going to have a very aggressive two or three month beta test with customers, did we get it right? And we'll refine as well before we actually release it to the customer. So again, that working with the customer, work customer backwards. But invent and simplify on their behalf. Because many Splunk customers weren't aware of Firehose until we explained it to them as a potential solution. They're like ah, that will do it, thank you. >> So very outcome driven. I mean, I know you guys write press releases before you sometimes launch products. Sort of as you say, that's what you mean by working backwards, right? >> Roger: Yes, yes it is. It really is. >> Ray: You're good listeners. >> So far it's worked. (laughter) >> It's always fun at the company, when somebody says I have a customer, the entire room gets quiet and we all start listening. It's actually fun to see that, because that's the magic word. I have a customer and we all want to listen. What do they want? What are they challenged with? Cause that's where the innovation starts from which is exciting to be part of that. >> It's been a great formula, no doubt about that. >> It has, it has. >> Thank you both for being here. Didn't realize it was a big day. So congratulations >> Thank you. >> on your announcement as well. >> Absolutely. >> Ray, Roger, good to see you. >> It's great talking with you. >> Alright, you're watching theCUBE live here from Washington D.C. .conf2017. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering The VMworld 2017, brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partner. (techno music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE, we are live in Las Vegas, day three of VMworld 2017. We also have our voices, which is pretty good. I'm Lisa Martin, my co-host for this segment is Peter Burris. Peter and I are joined by a couple of guests. We have Geoff Waters, Vice President of Global Cloud Sales from VMware, first time on theCUBE? >> Yes, yes. >> Good to have you here. >> You know, I'm a big fan, first time here, I'm excited to be here, guys. Thanks for having me. >> Awesome. >> And we have Cube alumni, Roger Frey, VP of Alliances and Business Development from Skytap, welcome back. >> Thank you very much, great to be here. >> So day three, both of you still smiling, that's good, you know, we're kind of close to that happy hour time, almost. So, Geoff, you've been with VMworld 11 years. What is your takeaway from the announcements that VMworld made at the show this year, and what you're hearing from your partners and your customers. >> So, I mean clearly, there's a buzz, there's a buzz again, right? I saw some articles saying there was a lacking of a buzz, but it is here, it's strong. Clearly, Pat knocked it out of the park on the opening keynote, great to see all the logos, customers, and I think our overall cloud strategy. I think it's really come on, and I think it's resonating with customers and partners. >> So, tell us how VMware works with Skytap, Roger, I guess I'll throw that to you. What are you guys doing together, and what's the story there? >> So, Skytap, we're a public cloud provider, and we're focused on enterprise applications, and basically, what we do, is we enable customers to take their on-prem legacy applications, move them to the cloud, modernize them, do parallel processing, add value-added service to them in the cloud, and for us to do that, we rely on VMware technologies that underpin our solutions. >> And what are the key things, just really quickly, that you're hearing from your customers who are using VMware in terms of the value that they're getting from this collaboration? >> I think the biggest thing that we hear from customers is that they need to be more agile, they need to be faster, they need to get to market more quickly. With the framework of VMware and using VMware underneath us, people are comfortable with our solution, they understand how we're going to interact with their application stacks, and it provides for a better solution for our customers. >> Roger, the statement that we are a public cloud provider for traditional applications-- >> Roger: Yes. >> Is a huge statement, there's a lot of implications. Take us through a little bit, how does a customer think through this process, working with you, and then we'll get to the technology choices that make it easier or more difficult? >> Sure. >> So, how does this process work? >> That's a great question, so, when we talk to customers, we're really leading with a business discussion, talking about how are we going to make them more effective? How are we going to make them more agile? How are we going to help them drive revenue or reduce cost? And typically, what we'll see with a customer, is we'll do an inventory of their application environment, so with Skytap, basically, we'll look at your customer's entire application environment from the applications all the way down to the networking, and they'll say, you know what? "Based on our understanding, these are the applications we think that we can migrate to the Cloud, these other applications we think we have to keep on-prem. And we actually come in and say, you know what? These legacy applications that you have that may have been written five, 10, 15 years ago based on networking requirements or hardware requirements. We can actually take that, we can lift it, put it into the Skytap cloud, so we can bring a more complete vision to our customers on their cloud journey, so things that they thought were going to have to stay on-prem, they can actually now take to the cloud and enjoy those efficiencies. >> So identify, do some pattern recognition for us, so identify what are those attributes when you look at a couple of applications, or a set of workloads. What are some of the characteristics that determine whether it's ready for public cloud, or whether it should stay where it is? >> That's a great question, so most public clouds today, they're really geared for net new development, born in the cloud applications, mobile, things like that that we're all very familiar with. Again, if you're a bank, or an insurance company, or a hospital, you've written applications that maybe at one time were specifically dependent on physical MAC addresses, maybe you're putting multiple IP Addresses on physical NICs, maybe you're doing some interesting VPN or tunneling things that you had to develop five, 10, 15 years ago because that's what you had to do, then. A lot of our customers have applications that they don't want to touch, they're running, they're mission critical, and they're absolutely scared to break it, so with Skytap, basically, we can draw a circle around their complete application stack, down to the level two networking layer, take that, put it into a public cloud, and enable those developers to self-service, to make clones, to self-provision, to do whatever work that they need, and then, if they want, integrate that back into their on-prem production environment, or take it to a cloud-based production environment, as well. >> So it sounds as though, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds as though, in many respects, the first thing you're looking at is, okay, you've got these workloads working really well, but you've done things at various hardware levels that could benefit from virtualization. >> Absolutely. >> So in many respects, the first thing you're doing is identifying what about these workloads can be virtualized, and that's part of the lift, which is where VMware comes in, have I got that right? >> Exactly, and that's why VMware is such a great partner of ours, because again, most enterprises today, virtually all enterprises today use VMware, so they're very comfortable with the solution, they understand how we're leveraging the technology, and we can focus on the business discussion, versus spending a lot of time in the technical discussions, trying to see if this is going to work or not. And that's really where we want to focus our energies. >> From a VMware perspective, there's hundreds of thousands of customers out there that have invested in, and everything from vSphere, NSX, vSAN, giving them the opportunity for another incredible cloud partner, you know, it was fantastic for us. We're seeing things like burstability, I mean, our hearts and thoughts are in Houston, with the big storm, but things like that will have a big impact on companies, on insurance companies, for instance, there's going to be a huge burst. So things like that, data center extensibility, consolidation, DR, these are the sort of things that they want to be able to tap into their VMware invest. >> Or emergency services is getting a whole bunch of work right now. One of the nice things is it sounds as though a lot of that infrastructure hasn't gone down despite the flooding and I've got to believe there's a whole bunch of IT guys that are doing a lot of God's work right now, to try to make sure that people stay alive. >> Yep. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> So talk to us about the innovation in terms of how VMware and Skytap are sort of working together. Did you see customers bringing you guys together, wanting more flexibility, wanting more advice and guidance on what should we move, what should we virtualize, what should we keep, or what should we move. How have your customers facilitated the innovations that you're achieving together? >> Yeah, maybe, I'll take a first shot at it, and then give it to Roger. So first of all, Skytap's a premier partner of ours in the VMware Cloud Provider Program. So, we're really excited about that, we just announced that today. >> Congratulations. >> Thank you. >> And on-- >> Like getting a scholarship on a football team. (laughing) >> Oh, I thought we said we weren't going to talk sports. >> Peter: Oh, that's right. >> No sports, right. >> No sports. >> Go Patriots. Anyway, you know what this does it allows us from a field level, it allows us to collaborate deeper from a partnership with our core sales team working with Skytap's. The second thing is around joint go-to-market, and messaging, it allows us to do a lot more in the market together. And then thirdly, around innovation, it's not just about the VMware install base, but it's also working with them on different cloud tools, leveraging that, integrated it in all the different technologies across the board. So, that's sort of a three-prong approach when you are one of our top premier partners. >> That's exactly right, it's a technology, it's a marketing, and it's a go-to-market and sales partnership that we have, so we're very happy with it. We're excited about being a premier partner. We've really boned up on our own technical capabilities within Skytap, to be more expert in VMware technologies, and now we want to be able to roll that out into the field with our joint customers. And getting back to your question, from a joint sales perspective, a joint go-to-market perspective, VMware is doing a great job of motivating its own sales force to become more cloud-ready and cloud-friendly, and it's a great fit for what we do. Their sales reps get compensated on Skytap, so it makes for a very good and smooth motion out in the field, which is where we're really all, it's where it matters. >> So Roger, I'm going to admit that I'm a little bit on edge about the word innovation. I've always believed that there's a difference between inventing something, which is an engineering act, and innovating, which is a social act, getting people to do things differently. And partnerships have always been a crucial feature of the computing industry in that innovation front, how you go to market, and especially, how you get businesses to adopt new things faster, more completely, so that they can be more successful. And as we go through this significant transformation, partners have to play another role, and that is they have to feed back to some core technology companies what they're hearing, what is working, what isn't working. How is that part of the relationship working? You as an advocate for customers as VMware evolves its platforms? >> That's a great question. Again, our customers, when we talk to them, they're really looking to get more agile, to be more innovative, to get to revenue sooner. And the things they they're asking from us as a public Cloud provider is self-service, is the ability to set up resources of their own without having to wait for central IT. They're looking to enable their team members across the globe. With Skytap and using VMware technology, we can clone images of our customers' environments, we can ship them globally. So, you may have a team in San Francisco, you may have a team in Seattle, you may have a team in Tokyo. With Skytap, you can send these images or these clones all over. They can be shared, they can be put back together, and a lot of that capability was feedback directly, that we see from our own customers. So, that's how we keep that feedback loop going, and that's the feedback that we give back to VMware. >> Yeah. If I could add to that, VMware is an incredible enterprise software company, we all know that. The last few years, we've been pivoting to develop a products and services for service providers. Part of being in our premier program as a VMware Cloud provider is you're getting access into some of those feedbacks and loops, and giving direct feedback and things, whether it's DR, us productizing products just for these guys for DR, or replication, like VCD. There's other multi-tenant, self-service portals that we're working in collaboration with our top partners. So, those are some of the other sorts of innovation that we're trying to also, beyond just the enterprise, in a service way where they can service the enterprise in the commercial space. >> Excellent, well guys, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE today, and talking with Peter and me about what's going on with VMware and Skytap together. We wish you continued success in your partnership. >> Great, thanks for being here, Lisa. >> Thank you so much. >> Appreciate it, thank you. >> Alright, for Geoff, and Roger, and my co-host Peter Burris, I am Lisa Martin, you've been watching theCUBE, we are again live at Vmworld 2017, continuing coverage day three. Stick around, we'll be right back. (techno music)

>> Narrator: Live, from Las Vegas. It's the Cube! Covering NAB 2017, brought to you by HGST. (electronic music) >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCube. We're here at NAB 2017 in Las Vegas Convention Center, 100,000 people, place has got a buzz, last year was all about AR and VR, this year it's all about machine learning and AI, platforms and storage and cloud, kind of sounds familiar with most of the other events that we go to. So we're really excited to have industry veteran, Roger Sherwood, he is the global strategy media and entertainment lead at Cisco, welcome Roger. >> Thank you very much. >> So first off, you've been coming to this show for a little while, first impressions? >> This is my seventh year, we've been super relevant for the last two or three years, we used to be buried away in the hole, in a dirty corner. Yeah, what a fantastic show! I think it's bigger than ever. More exhibitors than ever. Which amazes me in this space, but it's pretty fascinating to see what's going on right now. >> Now, you guys are doing big things, you basically took over cisco.com. >> Yes, we have. We get to do that for two weeks a year. >> For two weeks, so tell us about what's going on with Cisco and media. >> Well, for the show itself, NAB has become one of our major events. We used to do INTX and SCT and very cable, you know, Telco, and all that shows. Strong recognition within the company that a lot is changing on the content side, the production side. And we've had these customers for many, many years, very much selling into the IT side of these places, and two years ago, we really took an approach of, we're really becoming quite relevant on the broadcast side. The technology has changed, the technology has moved frpm from very traditional SDI technology, to IP. And that's Cisco's wheelhouse. Virtualization, UCS, orchestration, security. For the first time, we're very, very relevant on the content acquisition, distribution, production side. So yeah, we get to take over the Cisco homepage, because for the next two weeks, a lot of people want to talk about media and entertainment. Brand new website, brand new customer testimonials and everything else. It's nice to get that recognition from the company that this is a big thing. >> Right. And there's a solution behind the takeover, right, it's not just for publicity. >> Oh, no, no, no. It's all real. We're absolutely doing things. The big thing for us is this transition to IP. We're an IP company, 30-35 years ago, the company was founded on the premise of IP. This industry is one of the last ones to go from a legacy protocol. I mean, broadcast has been broadcast, it's been the same for 30-35 years. >> It's your classic kind of opportunity meets capability. >> It is in transition. And Cisco loves to go into transition, and what Cisco also loves to do, is take out legacy network protocols. So, SDIs, are exactly that. IP is here, I will say that only in 12, 18 months however, have we actually had the compute capacity, the bandwidth capacity, to take what is essentially, you know, I'm being filmed in uncompressed video right now. >> Right. >> You know, the routers and switchers that we sell, have not been able to process that amount of information. The last 12, 18 months, Moore's Law on everything else, and some software optimizations. Uncompressed video is flowing at high speed, across data networks, that Cisco provides. That's a great place to be, as this industry recognizes. >> It's funny, the Moore's Law thing, because people like to poo-poo on it, you know, but no, Moore's Law is an attitude. >> Roger: It absolutely is. >> It's a way to attack problems, with just massive increases in capability, whether it's networking, storage, or compute, and the combination of the three together, it's crazy. >> And that's exactly where we found ourselves two years ago, and so, we have very good timing. But we are a company that likes to step into those, you know, and say, "We've got this!" We understand, we've seen so many transitions in other industries, from legacy to IP. And hey, this one is just high cashe for the company, I mean the brands, and the names, and the companies that we get to work with right now, from Disney to NBC, to the BBC, these are fabulous companies that have global recognition. Like Cisco. >> Right. And it's interesting with the UCS comparison, not so much that it's Apple's origins, but the fact that Cisco is taking more of a solutions approach, and not just for the routers and the switchers, you know, kind of the IP backbone, but an integrated solution, where you can pull and compute, and you can pull and store, and oh by the way, it also has the networking stuff, so now you're offering customers a really interesting package. A cloud-based application solution, if you will, and then, as you mentioned, still partnering with best of breed applications across the country. >> And that's been key. This industry demands, in some cases, immediate solutions, I have a problem, I need to solve it. And I'm not so interested in an architecture, in a road map, and tell me where you're going over the next 12, 18 months. I need something now. So yeah, we absolutely have been very focused on, I mean everything on our booth is available to buy. Sometimes we show up to shows, and it's all futuristic stuff that maybe we don't even develop at some point. It's all in our price list. The partner side of this, is absolutely key. So we would not be here without Grass Valley, without Everts, Sony, Evias, big, big, traditional broadcaster vendors that have validated our solution, and turned around to the industry and said, "These guys get it." >> The other interesting part is that you guys are doing so much in the space, you've got the solutions base, and that you are doing the partnering, and that it's a great move for Cisco, right? You've got so much better-- >> I mean, it's really very few companies that can do the IP side of things. When you add in security, compute, orchestration, professional services, training. Like, just training broadcast engineers that have been so steeped in high-quality video, and they've known SDI, and they're now coming to us and saying, "Help me get trained in IP, "I recognize this transition is coming, "but I've got a legacy skillset, help me transition." There aren't many companies that can offer that range of solutions and services. And we're doing this with-- >> Real security, over and over again. The last couple of days, I mean, it's a huge to-do. >> So I try to move that from the last thing we talk about, to the first thing that we talk about. You move to an IP network, you can add an IP network to a data center, that center is connected to the internet, and these guys would actually be free. >> But the other cool thing for you guys, is that the primary distribution method, the SDI, or some of these other old-school broadcast methods are now no longer an important piece of the puzzle. But there's now all this stuff that's going out on all different types of applications, and all that stuff's IP at the core, right? Those are all IP applications at the core. Whether it's Snapchat, Instagram, Youtube, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Those were never going to broadcast medium. >> And you know, 2009, 2010, this industry was saying, "We're going to go IP," but it was always, "Well, you know, it's out there in the future." You're exactly right. The ability to now, the barrier to entry, to get this type of content onto an IP network, and down to every single device on the internet, It's never been so low. And so that's where you're seeing this high-value, premium content creation, acquisition, editing process. It's been recognized that they've got to move as well, they've got to move to a far more flexible infrastructure, automation, machine-learning of how things work, analytics, you know, the whole caboodle. And we're right there to support this industry to do that. >> And it's such an easy fit, right, because this industry is built on temporary projects, and the temporary assembly of a team, and they come, and they produce, and they create, and then there's a lot of derivative assets-- >> And tear the whole thing down. >> It's perfect for-- >> Absolutely. We've been talking about that with some of the Hollywood clients, and that's exactly what, they stand on a massive amount of infrastructure, for the latest Avatar movie, for instance. And then they tear it all down, and it's all written off, and then they go build a new one somewhere else. We think the industry can be a lot smarter about that. There is a way to truly repurpose. Hey, what you just built? You no longer need to throw it all away. >> So I want to shift gears a little bit, we have a lot of opensource shows, opensource is big, and you're part of the Alliance for IP Media Solutions, so there's always this question between now, the kind of opensource deriving standards in adoption, versus the old-school, standard's body. What role has AIMS played, give us a little bit more color, as to their role, and how that's kind of shaping things. >> So I say the old-school standards are absolutely alive and kicking. SIM, TVSF, Amwar, these guys have been around for years. What they are very focused on, however, is really making sure there is technical, inter-operability between ourselves, and all the vendors in this industry, as this move to IP takes place. So, we want a utopia where you can plug in a Cisco infrastructure, or a Reaster, or an Everts, and it's all going to work. That's what those standard bodies do for the industry. AIMS has basically said, "That's great, but it's a very, very technical thing." And there's some very, very technical people, that like to talk technical things To truly drive an industry forward, we've got to sort of go up the stack, and become much more relevant from a marketing perspective. And AIMS has basically said, "Look, we support all the adoption of IP, "but let's actually go push out news cases, "let's push out public references of customers "that are doing this today." We need to drive the industry forward at that level. So, very much rather the promotion of open standards, inter-operability, but really looking at how we market that, and foster the adoption of these standards. >> Okay, so last question before I let you go, priorities for 2017, it's hard to believe we're a third of the way through the year, but I'm still asking the question, because we still have a ways to go. What's kind of your top of mind awareness, what are you working on, obviously a big launch here for the next couple weeks, but looking down a little bit further down the road, what's your top of mind? >> Virtualization. We've been looking at virtualization, we've been telling the industry that they need to move to virtualization, that all these applications that are currently hardware, software, a lot today, that hardware piece is going to disappear, and we're all going to move into software. It's all going to move into VM ware, you need an IP foundation before you can do that, and that's what we're seeing take place right now. 12 months from now, the main headline for Cisco is going to be how we're helping every application vendor, and our customers move truly into a virtualized data center model. And then again, back to our little thing about Avatar and the tear down, that just becomes a thing of the past. Now it's about reusing all of that data center, over, and over, and over again. For all of the other Avatar sequels. >> It's so funny right, it's a recurring theme we see all over the place. It's just a little bit late here in the ME space. Alright, well Roger, thanks again for taking a few minutes of your day. And I'll see you around, and go Warriors. >> Absolutely. >> Alright, that's Roger Sherwood, I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching theCube from NAB 2017. We'll be right back after this short break, thanks for watching. (electronic music)

>> Voiceover: The Cube, covering SAPPHIRE NOW. Headlines sponsored by SAP HANA Cloud, the leader in platform as a service. With support from Console, Inc., the cloud internet company. Now, here are your hosts, John Furrier and Peter Burris. >> Okay, welcome back. We are here live in Orlando winding down day two of three days of wall-to-wall coverage, of live coverage of SAPPHIRE NOW. This is The Cube, SiliconANGLE's flagship program. We go out to the events and extract and sift through the noise. I want to give a shout-out to our sponsors who allow us to get here and do all this massive programming, SAP HANA Cloud platform, Console, Inc., Capgemini, and EMC. Thanks to our sponsors, we really appreciate it. Our next guest is Roger Quinlan, Senior Vice-President, global head of the partner-managed cloud at SAP Thanks for joining us, welcome to The Cube. >> Thanks for having me, this is great. >> We love it, so explain what is the partner, partner managed cloud, just to kind of make sure we get the definition out there because you get the partner ecosystem, but this is the managed cloud, the partner managed cloud. >> Right. >> John: Explain what that is. >> So basically it allows, it allows our partners to create cloud offerings, private cloud offerings that they can offer to their clients as software as a service. And obviously SAP technology enables the inside of that, the guts of it. And we typically structure the agreements in, you know, anywhere from two to seven year. Most of them are five year agreements so it's a long-term agreement, good for the partners, helps our clients get into the cloud quickly and easily. >> Explain who those partners are and give an example of how that works because SAP, you had partners, many, many years delivering the apps. But now this platform game with the cloud changes the business models. Who are some of the people that are implementing this? >> Yes, so Capgemini is a great example of one, NTT, Accenture, you know the players that you might think of right there. And there's even some smaller ones, some smaller SIs that are maybe not household names but are doing very good work. >> Specialty boutique kind of, domain expertise. >> Yeah, and even some that are fairly large but are not maybe household names in the US but are big names in Europe, like T-Systems as an example. >> Great, and the vision around this was just to get simplified on the delivery cycle, so with cloud, the goodness of SAP now can be tailored for the end client 'cause these guys are smart, they have data scientists, they have a lot of programming capabilities, they have a cloud knowledge. But they have to deliver a solution to the customers 'cause they are a trusted advisor to your customers. Is that the main reason? What's the push behind all this? >> Yeah, their main reason for us is really to allow us to get into market niches that we don't serve today. So if you think, I'll give you a great example. There was a niche with hospitals, smaller hospitals in southern Africa. And they needed infrastructure to manage the operations of a hospital. They wanted to modernize. They wanted to do the digital transformation, to use the modern buzz-word. And so one of our partners had a very good relationship with a couple of these hospitals and went out and said, hey, you know, if we built a solution, would you use it? And they said sure, so they went out and built it, and you know they started off with one, two, by the time they had it all built they had three. Quickly, they had seven. They're now up to 16 hospitals. It allows us to provide great technology to these hospitals. They can provide better healthcare to their constituents in a market that we otherwise would not be able to serve. So that's one good example of accessing a market that maybe SAP would not have access to. But the integrator, which was T-Systems in this case, that, you know, has great relationships in that community, so it really is leveraging a relationship they already have. >> So I can see the benefits to the customers and the partners 'cause it's clear. Partners can make more money, can have great differentiation to their customers. What's the impact of the SAP sales force? Do they get comped on it? Is there a channel conflict? Because that's going to probably come up. >> It's funny, so you know our market space well enough to know if that's an issue now, right? And it always is, right? So what we've decided to do is, basically the sales organization that has the end customer, they get, basically they get compensated on it. >> So they're incented to play ball. >> Absolutely, there's no disincentive. It's kind of the same if they sold it directly themselves. >> How does the partner managed cloud support the new S/4HANA 'cause that's the big story here. You're talking about ERP, modernized up. It's a big, all the discussions around that, everyone's jazzed up about it. All the hardcore SAP customers are all like, okay, wow. How does that impact this? >> Yeah, so S/4 becomes the technology that most of our partner-managed cloud offerings are utilizing. So what we find a lot is customers out there want, they want to do something new. Maybe they're a Hybris customer today, or they're an Ariba customer today, but now they need to modernize their core. They need to do an ERP. Maybe they didn't have one, or maybe they had an old one and they want to modernize it. S/4 is a perfect way to go deliver that in the cloud to the end client. And so I would say you know maybe a third or 40% of the transactions that we're doin' in the partner-managed cloud space are S/4. >> A lot of your partners, especially some of these big guys, are trying to evolve their business models away from ours-- >> Roger: Yes. >> To IP, so I presume a big part of this is to try to get them to build that IP, proximate to the SAP platform. >> Roger: Yes >> How are you encouraging them to do that? Are you underwriting? Are you financing it in any way? Are you sharing it? How are you getting them, other than just the raw business opportunity, what kind of new business models are you putting in place so the value accretes to your platform from these guys faster? >> Yeah, we're really focusing on verticals and on geographies, so that we don't have overlap. That way it creates a unique differentiator for that particular systems integrator. I talked about the example in southern Africa, but another example would be in Japan in the real estate market. We did a similar thing with a totally different systems integrator, and that allows them to have a unique approach to the real estate market inside of, primarily inside of Tokyo. So what we try and do is try and make sure that we don't have a lot of overlap in geographies and overlap in solution areas, so they get some sort of a competitive advantage and get some runway to run with this for awhile. >> And at what point in time do you find yourself, John asked the question about at least channel conflict with your sales guys but the goal is to have the entire ecosystem work really well together without being encumbered with enormous transaction costs of how these different parts come together. At what point in time does SAP start to have a direct relationship with some of these folks? For example, are you taking responsibility for sending down updates? Are you working to bring new extended or extending the ecosystem into a customer? Or is all that going through the partners that you're working with. >> So I'll answer that in a couple of different ways. So first of all the primary relationship is really between the partner and the end-client. It is their kind of SaaS offering to the client. We provide the technology underneath. So that's one way we do it. The other part of it that kind of keeps this close to SAP is the backend, the maintenance and support. Level one, Level two is still handled by the partner, but we handle level three. So there's still a relationship, when they get stuck and things go wrong or something needs to be fixed, we end up getting involved. But the primary support happens between, with the partner and most of them are very well skilled at being able to handle that level of support. >> But are you also then bringing your ecosystem and your set of partners to them as well? >> Absolutely, yeah, so it's not just the SI world right? So some of these partners really want to be in this game, but they don't have hosting capabilities so we'll do Azure or we'll bring in AWS, and that's a mechanism that's already in a good place for us. >> Well and also, they have a multi-vendor view anyways so they're going to broker the different clouds and intercloud them together. I think, to your point there, I think it's worth double-down on because that was important. Virtustream came out of that concept, so when Virtustream was sold to EMC for billions of dollars, a billion dollars, that ultimately filled the same gap that you guys are doing with this program. They essentially did SAP Cloud and did some tooling up. Now, you're offering, essentially, SAP tech to everybody. Okay, that's cool, so that's just for the folks out there just want to make sure they catch it 'cause that's how big it is in my opinion. >> Can I follow up with one quick point though, John? So let's say the extension, the partner extension programs that you guys have that allow your sales force to sell third-party software from the SAP ecosystem into customers. If a large customer, or if a large partner is a partner of yours and you're standing them up, are they also able to piggyback in those arrangements and start bringing, or do they all have to have separate business arrangements with everybody in the ecosystem, or is there kind of a master agreement that you're bringing to bear so that everybody plays better together because you're kind of overriding the whole thing? >> Yeah, so we like to make this as easy as possible, so we take into the 4,000 items or whatever on our price list, we enable that through this partner managed cloud, that way they don't have to go get individual agreements if they want to, maybe they want to do OpenText or something like that. >> So you're bringing the whole portfolio to their cloud? >> Roger: Yes. >> Tell how the IoT, how this plays in 'cause that's a real sexy market everybody's going after. We heard that's going to be on the second-half of the year. You mentioned some things around that. That's a big focus and a lot of people are using the, I say hype cycle now, which it's legitimate hype, but the apps are coming on a couple of years down the road so the architecture's going on now so people are setting the table for IoT today. Does that fit into this? >> Absolutely, it does, and you heard a little bit about when you talked to Mark right before I came on. He talked a lot about the platform, on a cloud platform that his group is responsible for and really that becomes a leverage point. So on a cloud platform can be a part of this, and oftentimes they want to do the enablement on top of that kind of cloud platform because they want to be able to extend. The great part about S/4 is that it's standard, and it's industry specific, and it's simple to operate. But that also means that some companies have a lot of customizations that need to be part of their solution to their end-clients. And so how do you do that? You do that with HANA cloud platform, and sometimes that becomes an IoT play as well. >> Yeah, that enable them to at least have some headroom. >> Yes. >> (laughs) Future proofing, whatever term they want to use. Okay, tell about the vision of digital transformation because this really becomes an interesting business model question. How does a digital transformation vision that SAP as a company is going down relate specifically to your area, and how does that relate to the business model of the customers? What are you guys doing? Is there any kind of new things? Is it an incentive comp, obviously the sales gets comped but options to the customer? Where's the margins? Is it a discounted sliding scale? All of these are the questions that are popping through my head right now. I'm the partner, what's in it for me? I got to make some cash so-- >> Yeah, so what's in it for the partner is they get a long-term relationship with the end-client, and oftentimes they bring a relationship with that client already, and now they're extending it, and it's a very sticky relationship because when you start on an SAP program, that's not something you switch in and out every couple of years. So that's one of the benefits to the partner. And I will say the part about digital transformation, everyone wants to transform their business. Not everyone is able to, but most companies want to do that. This becomes the digital core, right? You use S/4 as the digital core, and you can get into it quickly. And if it's an industry based solution that this partner is now providing to multiple clients, they can implement it quicker. >> They can standardize on it. >> Yeah, they can standardize on it, and then they can do hospital one, hospital two, all the way to hospital 16 a lot quicker, right? One or two maybe take you some time, but by the time you get to the 16th or 17th, it's going really fast, so it enables a faster time to market for the end-client, and you know that digital is all about speed. >> Yeah, if they're building Lego blocks, and they build their own, they cast it out and they build more of them and just ship them out. >> You mentioned another item. You know there are some customers that have been using SAP Solutions for a long time, and maybe they're not using all of them any more or maybe they've gone off maintenance, that's a topic. We've been able to use this tool as a way to bring the customers back. So maybe they ran ERP way back when it was release four or 4.5 back, you know, back in the 90's. They got away from it for whatever reason, but now they're really excited about S/4 and they want to come back. This is a mechanism to allow us to do it and do it quickly. >> And also they get basically rebooted or reset on the new platform. >> Yep. >> But also you get net new customers out of this. >> Absolutely. >> So it's not like you're recycling the same SAP customers, certainly the churn might be helped a little bit. Now, that's the thing that I'm going to look at is those new customers, and I think they're going to be attracted to things like the Apple announcements. How does that impact you? Are you affected by that? Certainly the glowing afterglow of the announcement will be good. >> It's pretty cool, isn't it? >> John: But does it directly affect your business? >> It will absolutely affect it because the whole concept about that agreement is to develop applications that enhance the user experience and to the extent that we can leverage all of that better user experience, in a faster time to market, get to the cloud quicker, that's all good news for the end client. >> We're finally going to have a remote desktop on the phones that actually works, seamlessly. >> Yeah, real rendering, as opposed to shadow rendering. >> All right, final question, what's your take on SAP this year, thoughts share with the audience who couldn't make it. They might be watching this live or on-demand. What's 2016 SAPPHIRE NOW all about? >> Well 2016 SAPPHIRE NOW, in a lot of the keynotes, was really about kind of exposing a more, you know, a more honest, a more upfront conversation. We saw it in they keynotes. You know, Bill McDermott, our CEO, put his e-mail address out on a keynote with 30,000 people in the crowd and then you know a 100,000 or so watching, right? That's a pretty bold thing to do. And so I think you're trying to see, you're seeing SAP trying to become more human, trying to have more empathy. You know, we're a big company. We do some very cool things. We run a serious business, right? But being able to do that in a very human way is what I'm seeing here on the show floor. >> Final question, final, final question 'cause that was the second final question, what KPIs are you going to look at on the scoreboard to benchmark your success where you say, hey, we hit a grand slam? You know, is it the number of partners? What are the simple metrics that give you an indicator that you're winning, you're achieving your objectives? What are some of the things you look at to kind of get a feel for if it's working or not? >> Yeah, I want to see multi-client agreements that we put together where they have more than one client, where we've established what the multi-client agreement is going to be and we actually are executing against that. That's one. Two, I want to see customers going live and getting productive results out of it. And revenue growth is obviously always something we watch, but that's kind of tertiary to the first two. And if we do the first two, the partners are going to be successful. They'll get sticky with their clients. The clients will be happy because they get a faster time to market and that's how this grows. >> So it's really who stands up what solutions is really going to be the benchmark. >> And focus on, it is all new markets for us I think. >> John: Roger Quinlan, thanks so much for coming on The Cube. Really appreciate the insight. You got a big job, exciting. I think it's going to be a greenfield opportunity with your existing clients in a new way, a new business model innovation, congratulations. >> Great, thanks for having me. >> Okay, we're in The Cube here. You're watching day two coverage of SiliconANGLE Media's The Cube. I'm John Furrie with Peter Burris. Thanks for watching. >> Voiceover: They'll be millions of people in the near future that want to be involved in their own personal well-being and wellness. Nobody wants to age in a way that we're bound to a chair or a bed.

>>And welcome to this special cube conversation. I'm John for a, your host of the cube. We're here in Palo Alto, California, and I'm here with a very special guest coming down from Seattle remotely into the cube studios is the leader at AWS Amazon web services, the vice president of database analytics and machine learning Swami. Great to see you cube alumni recently taking over the database business at AWS as a leader. Congratulations. And thanks for coming on the cube. >>Hey, my pleasure to be here, John, very excited to talk to you. >>Yeah. We've had many conversations on the cube and also in person and also online around all the major mega trends. You've had your hand in all the action, going back to your days when you were in school learning and, and writing papers. And 10 years ago, Amazon web services launched AWS dynamo, DB, fast, flexible, no SQL database that everyone loves today, which has inspired a generation of what I would call database distributing cloud scale, single digit millisecond performance at scale. And again, the key scale. And again, this is 10 years ago, so it seems like yesterday, but you guys are celebrating and your name was on the original paper with CTO Verner. Vogel's your celebrity. Congratulations. >>Thank you. Not sure about the celebrating part, but I'm very excited. At least I played a hand in building such an amazing technology that has enabled so many amazing customers along the way as well. So >>Trivia on the, on the paper as you were an intern at AWS, so you're getting your PhD. And then since, since rising through the ranks and involved in a lot of products over the years, and then leading the machine learning and AI, which is now changing the game at the industry level, but I got to ask you getting back to the story here. A lot of customers have built amazing things on top of dynamo DB, not to mention lots of other AWS and Amazon tech riding on it. Can you share some of the highlights that came out of the original paper? And so with some examples, because I think this is a point in time, 10 years ago, where you start to, so the KickUp of cloud scale, not just, just for developers and building startups, you're really starting to see the scale rise. >>Yeah, I actually, I mean, as you probably know, based on what he read to explain the Genesis of dynamo DB itself had to explain the Genesis of how Amazon got into building the original dynamo, right? And this was during the time when miner, I joined Ron esteem as an intern and, and Amazon was one of the pioneers in pushing the boundary of scale. And a year over year, our Q4 holiday season tends to be really, really bad for all the right reasons. We all want our holiday shopping done during that time. And you want to be able to scale your website, arters fulfillment centers, all of them at that time. And those are the times around 2005. And the answer is when people think our database, they think of a single database server that actually runs on a box and has a certain characteristics and does a scale and availability and whatnot. >>And it's usually relational. And then when we had a major disruption during Q4 that's when yeah, ask ourselves the question, why are we actually using a relational database for some of these things when they really didn't need the data model complexity of relational database. And normally I would say most companies where to actually ask an intern or a few engineers who are early in the career saying like, what the hell are you suggesting? Just go away. But Amazon being enabling Buddhists to build what they want. And they actually let us start reimagining what a database or our scale could look like. And that led to dynamo. And since she unstained mine, then we migrated from an traditional relational database stair this one for some of the amazon.com services. And then I moved on to actually start building some butts off our storage service and then our managed relational database service, I explicitly remember. >>And one of our customer advisory board, we're just the set off some of our leading customers who actually give us feedback on roadmap. Another son, Don, who's the CEO and chief geek of spunk bargain faker. And him actually looking at the Trinity me, I was starting in the corner and saying like you all, both tomorrow and why do I need to keep shotting my, my sequel database and reshooting assigned scaling. And this is the time when the state of the art in most databases were around. Like, you start sharding your relational database and constantly reshaping. And this is when most websites are starting to experience the kind of scale which we consider a normal month. During those times it was mostly, most companies used to have a single relational database backend and start scaling that way. And that conversation led entirely under duress, unaided read, lot of AWS leaders and myself saying like, Hey, what is a cloud database reimagined without the hampering SQL look like? And that led us to start building dynamo DB, but just a key value database at that time. Now we support document might've too, but that single digit millisecond latency at any scale imagine. So >>I think about that time at that time, 10 years ago, when you were having this conversation and I know the smug mug and I, he said, he's in totally geek and he's, he's good to point that out. You also have Netflix as customers too. I'd like to hear how that's evolved, but, but I think back at the time, if you look back then I got to ask you most people we've talked about this before. No one database rules, a world that's now standard people now don't see one database back then it was a one database kind of mindset back then. Yeah. And then you had that big data movement happening with Hadoop. You had the object store developing. So you're in you're you're circling around that area. What was it like then? I mean, take, take us through that because there was obvious visibility that, Hey, let's just store this. Now you see data lakes and that's all happening. But back then object store was kind of new. Yeah. >>Ah, it's a great question. Now, one of the things I realized early on, especially when I was working with binary, when you're saying amazon.com itself as an example, that the access patterns for various applications and Amazon, but let alone AWS customers tend to be very, very, very, some of them really just needed an object store. Some of them needed a relational database. Some of them really wanted a key value store within a fast latency. Some of them really needed a durable cash. And, but it so happens when you have a giant hammer. You use that for everything looks like a map, which is essentially the story at that time. And so everyone kept using the same database, irrespective of what the problem was because nobody else, I mean, thought about like, what else can we build that is better? So this let us do, literally I remember writing a paper with Bernard internally that is widely used in Amazon explaining what are all the menu of booklets that access. >>And then how do we go about actually solving for each of these things so that they can actually grow and innovate faster. And, and this was led to actually the Genesis of not only building IDs and so forth, but also dynamo and various other non-relational data. There's a still let alone not so storage access patterns and what not. So, and this was one of the big revelations he had just that there is not a single database that is going to meet the customer, needs us. The diversity of workloads in the internet is growing. And this was a key pivotal moment because with cloud now applications can scale very more instantly than before now. Building an application for Superbowl is very easier than before. That means that on, I mean, everybody is pushing the boundaries of what scale means, and they are expecting more from their obligations. That's when you need technologies like dynamo, DB, and that's exactly what dynamo already be set out to do. And since then, we are continuing to innovate on behalf of our customers and the purpose of the database story as well. And this concept has resonated well across the board. If you see that the database industry has also embraced this method, >>It's natural that you obviously evolved into the machine learning side of it because that's data is big part of that. And you see back then you, you bringing up kind of like flashes for me where it's like those, the data conversations back then and the data movement was just beginning. So the idea that you can have diversity in access methods of the kind of databases was a use case driven by the application, not so much database saying, this is how you have to work, that the script was flipped. It it's changed from infrastructure dictating to the applications, what to do. Now, the applications are going to the infrastructure and saying, give me what I want. I want to access something here in an office store, something here in no SQL that became the Genesis of infrastructure as code at a, at a global level. And so your paper kind of set the, the, the wave, the influence for this, no SQL did big data movement. It's created tons of value, maybe a third Mongo might've been influenced by this other people have been influenced. Can you share some stories of how people adopted the concept of dynamo DB and how that's changed in the industry and how has that helped the industry evolve? >>I mean, plus file data. Most share our experience of building and dynamo style data store. Very, it is a non-relational API and showing what are some of the experiences that the Venter in building such an paper and these set out early on itself, that it is should not be just a design paper, but it should be something that we shared our experiences. So even now, when I talked to my friends and colleagues and various other companies, one thing they always tell me is they appreciated the openness with which we were sharing. Some of the examples and learnings that we learned to not optimizing for percentile latencies, and what are some of the scalability challenges, how we solved and some of the techniques around things like sloppy Cora or various other stuff. We invented a lot of towns along the way too, but people really appreciated several of some of our findings and as talking about it. >>And since then I met so many other innovations are happening in the industry and the AWS, but also across the entire academia and industry in this space, the databases I've been going through what I call as a period of Renaissance, where one of the things, if you see our own arc, when Roger and I started on the database, front Disney started over the promo saying like, if you were to build a database where cloud is the new normal, this is again in 2008, we asked ourselves that question and what the belt that led us to start building things like dynamo, DB, RDS star. I know that alone, we reimagined data viruses with Redshift and several, and then several other databases like time stream for time series workloads started running Neptune for graph and whatnot. But at the moment we started actually asking that question and working backwards from customers. Then you will start being able to innovate accordingly. And this has worked really well. Then more than a hundred thousand AWS customers have chosen dynamo DB for mobile gaming tech IOT. Many of these are fast growing businesses, such as ledge, Darryl BNB, red fan, as soon as enterprises like Samsung Toyota, capital one and so far. So these are like really some meaningful clouds, let alone amazon.com. I run this. >>We have an internal customer is always good to have that entire inside customer. You know, I really find this a really profound use case because you're just talking, you know, in Amazonian terms, I'll just translate for the audience working backwards from the customer, which is the customer obsession you guys have. So here's, what's going on off the way I see it. You got dynamo, DB, paper, you and Verner, and the team Paul was a great as a great video on your blog posts that goes into the, to the talk he gave at around that time, which is fun to watch if you look back, but you have a radical enabler here, that's disrupting and changing S3 RDS, Aurora. These are game-changing concepts inside the, the landscape of AWS at the same time, you're working backwards from the customer. So the question I have for you as a leader and as a builder, how did you balance the working backwards from the customer while bringing something brand new and radical at that time to the market? >>Yeah, this is one of the S I mean hardest things to be, as leaders need to balance on. If you see many times, then we actually worked backwards from customers. The literal later translated this, literally do what customers are asking for, which is true nine out of 10 times, but there is one or a 10 times, you got to read between the lines on what they are asking. Because many times customers when are articulate that they need to go fast. If in the right way, they might say, Hey, I wish my heart storage goes faster, but they're not going to tell you they need a car, but you need to know and be able to translate and read between the lines we call it under the bucket of innovate on behalf of customers. And that is exactly the kind of a mantra we had when we were thinking about concepts like dynamo DB, because essentially at that time, almost everybody would, if I asked, they would just say, I wish a relational database could actually be able to scale from not just like a hundred gigabyte to one terabyte are, it can take up to like 2 million transactions, a second and so forth and still be cheap and made in reality as relational databases, the way they were engineered at that time, those are not going to meet the scale needs. >>So this is fair. We hunted read between the lines on what are some of the key Mustang needs from customers and then work backwards and then innovate on behalf of these workloads, be enabled by the sun oh four, which are some of the reasons that led to us launching some of the initial sets on dynamo on a single digit millisecond latency and seamless scale. At that time, databases didn't have the elasticity to go from like 10 requests, a second to like a hundred thousand or 1 million requests a second, and then scaled right back in an hour. So that was not possible. And we kind of enabled that. And that was an, a pretty big game changer that showed the elasticity of the cloud to a database. Well, >>Yeah, I think also just to, not to nerd out on this, but it enables a lot of other kind of cool scaled concepts, like queuing storage. It's all kind of together. This database piece of that you guys are solving. And again, props to you guys on the team. Congratulations. I have to ask, you know, more generally, how has your thinking changed since the paper? I'll see, you've got more experience under your belt. You don't yet have the gray hairs yet, but we'll see those soon come in, but you know, you're, you got a lot more experience. You're running teams, you're launching a lot of products. How has your thinking changed in the industry since the paper what's happening now? What's the big evolution. What are those new things now that are in the innovate on behalf of the customer? What's between the lines now, how do you see this happening? >>I mean, now since wanting dynamo via a victim, I had the opportunity to work on various problems in the big data space. There we've worked on some are fire things that you might be aware of in the analytics all the way from Redshift to quick side, too. Then I moved on to start some of our efforts, having built systems that enabled customer to store process and credit, and then analyze them. One of the realizations, I had this, the in around 2015 or 2016, I kinda had that machine learning was hitting a critical point where now it is ready for being scaled at option. Their cloud has basically enabled limitless compute and limitless storage, which are the factors that are holding back machine learning technology. Then I realized that now we have a unique opportunity to bring machine learning BI to everybody, not just folks with PhD in machine learning. >>And that's when I moved on from database and analytics areas, they started machine learning. We're just a descent area because machine learning is powered by data and then started building capabilities like SageMaker, which is our end to end ML platform to build, train and deploy them on models. And this, what does the leading enterprise platform by several gaggled users and then also a bunch of our AI services since then, I view the reason I'm giving all this historical context is one of the biggest realization I had early on itself. And 2016 as first machine learning is one of the most disruptive technologies. She will then country in our generation. This is right after cloud. I think these still are the most amazing combination that is going to revolutionize how we build applications and how we actually reason about that. Now, the second thing is that at the end of the day, when you look at the ANC and journey, it is not just about one database or one data Varroa. >>So one data lake product, or even 1:00 AM out platform. It is about the end to end journey where a customer is storing their order database. And then they are actually building a data lake that test customer history and order history. And they want to be able to personalize. And for their viewer experience are actually forecast what products to staff in their fulfillment center, but then all these things need to work and to handle. And that view is one of the big things that struck me for the past five years. And I've been on this journey in addition to building this Emma building blocks to connect the dots so that customers can go on this modern end to end data strategy as I call it, right. It goes beyond a single database technology or data technology, but putting now all of these end to end together so that customers don't end up spending six months connecting the dots, which has been the state of the down for the last couple of years. And we are bringing it down to matter of the Sundays. Now >>He's incredible Swami. Thank you so much for spending the time with us here in the, >>Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks again, Sean. Thanks for having me.

>>Mhm Hello, I'm jennifer with the cube. We're here at Rogers vice president of EC two Product Manager, NWS raj. Thanks for coming off its quick cube conversation. Um Congratulations on your 15th birthday of E C two. You get the keys to the kingdom of one of the hottest products. The most important product you look at. I look at our billets. Ec two is the highest, it's always the best everyone focuses on. It's the compute a lot of other goodness with amazon cloud. Thanks for coming on. >>Thank you. Thanks for having me. >>So, can you break down the graviton two processor overview? Why is custom Silicon important and why should architects and developers understand the opportunity with graviton to these are the other opportunities within 80 bucks. What's the, what's the magic do it we should that they think about as the architect their cloud. >>Yeah. So, I mean, I think why it's important is what you said like so much uh the workloads that they're running at the end of the day is running on EC two, whether it's running on Ec two directly or running on one of the other AWS services that's built on a C two and when you have, when you're able to, when we're able to innovate and deliver a very significant price performance advantage, not just lowers their costs. So like there, It's hardly a day of industry where you're able to go and do a pretty simple migration and get a 40% price performance improvement and that's huge and I think that's why this is, you know, raising a lot of interest. Is that um, customers, I found it relatively easy to go and do this migration and get that benefit. >>That's awesome mirage. I gotta ask you ec two offers more than 400 instant types with different combinations of compute memory, networking and storage, which is obviously the backbone of the cloud. A lot of people that are coming in learning about clouds, what does it mean that there's all these instances that because it's just more combinations, different workloads, why 400 instance types? What does that mean for someone learning about clouds? Does it mean anything to you actually? Would you explain the difference of instance types of 400 of them? >>Yeah. So, I mean when you think about an instance type, it's essentially configuration of a virtual machine, there's a certain amount of memory, there's a certain amount of processing power. Uh there could be a certain amount of disk and workloads, uh, the different ratios of these uh, dimensions, these characteristics. So by offering selection across a wide variety of instances were really able to optimize the compute that particular workload needs. The customers could essentially uh, increase their performance and have a more optimized price for what they want to get done. So ultimately, that's what that's what it's about having the right form factor for a given workload and the more configurations that we have, the more we're able to tune for those workloads. >>It's like having a driver riding a car you want the driver type to match the road, match the engine. So the instance has to match the profile of the app, the workload and kind of, and is that kind of where you're getting at getting met? You can do that. >>Yeah. And you know, and one of the things that we're also investing in at the same time as tools to enable customers to realize and learn what the right instance is. So, you know, we launched about a year ago uh capability called compute optimizer that lets customers look at their workloads, you know, in flight essentially and make recommendations saying, hey, instead of this instance, you know, you could Move to um this other instance type and save 50% or you know, as an example. So, um, you know, part of it, creating the selection and the other part of it is creating the tools. So customers, do you know what the right fit is for them so that they can really optimize their thin >>Well Roger, I really preach this is going to ask me anything guru question, but here's the simple one. What is gravitas to, at the end of the day when someone asks you what is graviton too? >>Yeah. So I mean grandma can do is a processor, it's a chip, it's a CPU um and so what that means essentially is and it's an arm. Basic. So um, you know, with, with are just like you have intel and AMG processors, these are the, the circuitry and the computer that does the work. Right. And um with, with Gravitas on we support arm which is a different architecture set but one that has been around long enough and it's pretty ubiquitous across mobile devices and servers now. So the operating systems that you know, you know all the Linux operating system, the tools that you know, they all work and are able to run on Graviton too. So this means that when you have applications, you can very easily take it from the same AMG or intel X 86 platform and move it over and just get the efficiencies that gravity to offers with lower power envelope and higher performance >>there it is many master class here at raj. Pie Vice President Ec two product management laying down the graviton to knowledge and for folks learning about cloud and architects really want to know the difference. It's a 40% performance improvement, lower power envelope, 20% less than cost. I believe something those range about right about in the same territory there. So basically high performance, lower costs, better power. So for workloads that demanded you got the option raj. Thank you for sharing. Thank you. All right. I'm john for, with the cube Thanks for watching. Mhm mm

>>Mhm Yes. Hello and welcome back to the cubes coverage of red hat summit 2021 virtual. I'm john for your host of the cube we're here with Hillary Hunter, the VP and CTO and IBM fellow of IBM cloud at IBM. Hillary, Great to see you welcome back, You're no stranger to us in the cube your dentist few times. Thanks for coming on. >>Thanks so much for having me back. Great to talk more today >>I believe I B M is the premier sponsor for red hat summit this year. No, I mean I think they're somewhat interested in what's happening. >>Yeah, you know, somebody is such a great event for us because it brings together clients that, you know, we work together with red head on and gives us a chance to really talk about that overall journey to cloud and everything that we offer around cloud and cloud adoption um, and around redheads capabilities as well. So we look forward to the summit every year for sure. >>You know, the new IBM red hat relationship obviously pretty tight and successful seeing the early formations and customer attraction and just kind of the momentum, I'll never forget that Red hat something was in SAN Francisco. I sat down with Arvin at that time, uh, Red hat was not part of IBM and it was interesting. He was so tied into cloud native. It was almost as if he was dry running the acquisition, which he announced just moments later after that. But you can see the balance. The Ceo at IBM really totally sees the cloud. He sees that experience. He sees the customer impact. This has been an interesting year, especially with Covid and with the combination of red hat and IBM, this cloud priority for IT leaders is more important than ever before. What's your, what's your take on this? Because clearly you guys are all in on cloud, but not what people think, what's your, what's your view on this? >>Yeah. You know, from, from the perspective of those that are kind of data oriented IBM Institute for Business Value, did lots of studies over the last year, you know, saying that over 60% of leaders feel, you know, increased urgency to get to the cloud, um they're intending to accelerate their program to the cloud, but I think, you know, just even as consumers where each very conscious that our digital behaviors have changed a lot in the last year and we see that in our enterprise client base where um everything from, you know, a bank, we work that that that had to stand up their countries equivalent of the payroll protection program in a matter of weeks, which is just kind of unheard of to do something that robust that quickly or um, you know, retail obviously dealing with major changes, manufacturing, dealing with major changes and all consumers wanting to consume things on an app basis and such, not going into brick and mortar stores and such. And so everything has changed and months, I would say have sort of timeframes of months have been the norm instead of years for um, taking applications forward and modernizing them. And so this journey to cloud has compressed, It's accelerated. And as one client I spoke with said, uh, in the midst of last year, you know, it is existential that I get to cloud with urgency and I think That's been that has been the theme of 2020 and now also 2021. And so it is, it is the core technology for moving faster and dealing with all the change that we're all experiencing. >>That's just so right on point. But I got I want to ask you because this is the key trend enterprises are now realizing that cloud native architecture is based on open source specifically is a key architectural first principle now. >>Yeah. >>What's your, what, what would you say to the folks out there who were listening to this and watching this video, Who were out in the enterprise going, hey, that's a good call. I'm glad I did it. So I don't have any cognitive dissidence or I better get there faster. >>Yeah. You know, open source is such an important part of this conversation because I always say that open source moves at the rate and pays a global innovation, which is kind of a cute phrase that I really don't mean it in anyways, cute. It really is the case that the purpose of open sources for people globally to be contributing. And there's been innovation on everything from climate change to you know, musical applications to um things that are the fundamentals of major enterprise mission critical workloads that have happened is everyone is adopting cloud and open source faster. And so I think that, you know this choice to be on open source is a choice really, you know, to move at the pace of global innovation. It's a choice too um leverage capabilities that are portable and it's a choice to have flexibility in deployment because where everyone's I. T is deployed has also changed. And the balance of sort of where people need the cloud to kind of come to life and be has also changed as everyone's going through this period of significant change. >>That's awesome. IBM like Red has been a long supporter and has a history of supporting open source projects from Lenox to kubernetes. You guys, I think put a billion dollars in Lenox way back when it first started. Really power that movement. That's going back into the history books there. So how are you guys all collaborating today to advance the open source solutions for clients? >>Yeah, we remain very heavily invested in open source communities and invested in work jointly with Red Hat. Um you know, we enabled the technology known as um uh Rackham the short name for the Red Hat advanced cluster management software, um you know, in this last year, um and so, you know, provided that capability um to to become the basis of that that product. So we continue to, you know, move major projects into open source and we continue to encourage external innovators as well to create new capabilities. And open source are called for code initiatives for developers as an example, um have had specific programs around um uh social justice and racial issues. Um we have a new call for code out encouraging open source projects around climate change and sustainable agriculture and all those kind of topics and so everything from you know, topics with developers to core product portfolio for us. Um We have a very uh very firm commitment in an ongoing sustained contribution on an open source basis. >>I think that's important. Just to call out just to kind of take a little sidebar here. Um you guys really have a strong mission driven culture at IBM want to give you props for that. Just take a minute to say, Congratulations call for code incredible initiative. You guys do a great job. So congratulations on that. Appreciate. >>Thank you. Thank you. >>Um as a sponsor of Red Hat Summit this year, I am sponsoring the zone Read at um you have you have two sessions that you're hosting, Could you talk about what's going on? >>Yeah, the the two sessions, so one that I'm hosting is around um getting what we call 2.5 x value out of your cloud journey. Um and really looking at kind of how we're working with clients from the start of the journey of considering cloud through to actually deploying and managing environments and operating model on the cloud um and where we can extract greater value and then another session um that I'm doing with Roger Primo, our senior vice President for strategy at IBM We're talking about lessons and clouded option from the Fortune 500, so we're talking there about coca cola european bottling partners, about lumen technologies um and um also about wonderman Thompson, um and what they're doing with us with clouds, so kind of two sessions, kind of one talking a sort of a chalkboard style um A little bit of an informal conversation about what is value meaning cloud or what are we trying to get out of it together? Um And then a session with roger really kind of focused on enterprise use cases and real stories of cloud adoption. >>Alright so bottom line what's going to be in the sessions, why should I attend? What's the yeah >>so you know honest honestly I think that there's kind of this um there's this great hunger I would say in the industry right now to ascertain value um and in all I. T. Decision making, that's the key question right? Um not just go to the cloud because everyone's going to the cloud or not just adopt you know open source technologies because it's you know something that someone said to do, but what value are we going to get out of it? And then how do we have an intentional conversation about cloud architecture? How do we think about managing across environments in a consistent way? Um how do we think about extracting value in that journey of application, modernization, um and how do we structure and plan that in a way? Um that results in value to the business at the end of the day, because this notion of digital transformation is really what's underlying it. You want a different business outcome at the end of the day and the decisions that you take in your cloud journey picking. Um and open hybrid, multi cloud architecture leveraging technologies like IBM cloud satellite to have a consistent control plan across your environments, um leveraging particular programs that we have around security and compliance to accelerate the journey for regulated industries etcetera. Taking intentional decisions that are relevant to your industry that enable future flexibility and then enable a broad ecosystem of content, for example, through red hat marketplace, all the capabilities and content that deploy onto open shift, et cetera. Those are core foundational decisions that then unlock that value in the cloud journey and really result in a successful cloud experience and not just I kind of tried it and I did or didn't get out of it what I was expecting. So that's really what, you know, we talk about in these in these two sessions, um and walk through um in the second session than, you know, some client use cases of, of different levels and stages in that cloud journey, some really core enterprise capabilities and then Greenfield whitespace completely new capabilities and cloud can address that full spectrum. >>That's exciting not to get all nerdy for a second here, But you know, you bring up cloud architecture, hybrid cloud architecture and correct me if I'm wrong if you're going to address it because I think this is what I'm reporting and hearing in the industry against the killer problem everyone's trying to solve is you mentioned, um, data, you mentioned control playing for data, you mentioned security. These are like horizontally scalable operating model concepts. So if you think about an operating system, this is this is the architecture that becomes the cloud model hybrid model because it's not just public cloud cloud native or being born in the cloud. Like a startup. The integration of operating at scale is a distributed computing model. So you have an operating system concept with some systems engineering. Yeah, it sounds like a computer to me, right. It sounds like a mainframe. Sounds like something like that where you're thinking about not just software but operating model is, am I getting that right? Because this is like fundamental. >>Yeah, it's so fundamental. And I think it's a great analogy, right? I think it's um you know, everyone has kind of, their different description of what cloud is, what constitutes cloud and all that kind of thing, but I think it's great to think of it as a system, it's a system for computing and what we're trying to do with cloud, what we're trying to do with kubernetes is to orchestrate a bunch of, you know, computing in a consistent way, as, you know, other functions within a single server do. Um What we're trying to do with open shift is, you know, to enable um clients to consume things in a consistent way across many different environments. Again, that's the same sort of function um conceptually as, you know, an operating system or something like that is supposed to provide is to have a platform fundamentally, I think the word platform is important, right? Have a platform that's consistent across many environments and enables people to be productive in all those environments where they need to be doing their computing. >>We were talking before we came on camera about cloud history and we were kind of riffing back and forth around, oh yeah, five years ago or six years ago was all the conversations go to the cloud now, it's like serious conscience around the maturity of cloud and how to operate that scale in the cloud, which is complex, it's complex system and you have complexity around system complexity and novelty complexity, so you have kind of all these new things happening. So I want to ask you because you're an IBM fellow and you're on the cloud side at IBM with all this red hat goodness you've got going on, Can you give us a preview of the maturity model that you see the IBM season, that red hats doing so that these architectures can be consistent across the platforms, because you've got def sec ops, you've got all these new things, you've got security and data at scale, it's not that obviously it's not easy, but it has to be easier. What's what's the preview of the maturity model? >>Yeah, you know, it really is about kind of a one plus one equals three conversation because red hats approach to provide a consistent platform across different environments in terms of Lennox and Kubernetes and the open shift platform um enables that first conversation about consistency and maturity um in many cases comes from consistency, being able to have standards and consistency and deployment across different environments leads to efficiency. Um But then IBM odds on that, you know, a set of conversations also around data governance, um consistency of data, cataloguing data management across environments, machine learning and ai right bringing in A. I. For I. T. Operations, helping you be more efficient to diagnose problems in the IT environment, other things like that. And then, you know, in addition, you know, automation ultimately right when we're talking about F. R. I. T. Ops, but also automation which begins down at the open shift level, you know with use of answerable and other things like that and extends them up into automation and monitoring of the environment and the workloads and other things like that. And so it really is a set of unlocking value through increasing amounts of insight, consistency across environments, layering that up into the data layer. Um And then overall being able to do that, you know efficiently um and and in a consistent way across the different environments, you know, where cloud needs to be deployed in order to be most effective, >>You know, David Hunt and I always talk about IBM and all the years we've been covering with the Cube, I mean we've pretty much been to every IBM events since the Cube was founded and we're on our 11th year now watching the progression, you guys have so much expertise in so many different verticals, just a history and the expertise and the knowledge and the people. They're so smart. Um I have to ask you how you evolved your portfolio with the cloud now um as it's gone through, as we are in the 2021 having these mature conversations around, you know, full integration, large scale enterprise deployments, Critical Mission Mission Critical Applications, critical infrastructure, data, cybersecurity, global scale. How are you evolve your portfolio to better support your clients in this new environment? >>Yeah, there's a lot in there and you hit a lot of the keywords already. Thank you. But but I think that you know um we have oriented our portfolio is such that all of our systems support Red hat um and open shift, um our cloud, we have redhead open shift as a managed service and kubernetes is at the core of what we're doing as a cloud provider and achieving our own operational efficiencies um from the perspective of our software portfolio, our core products are delivered in the form of what we refer to as cloud packs on open shift and therefore deploy across all these different environments where open shift is supported, um products available through Red hat marketplace, you know, which facilitates the billing and purchasing an acquisition and installation of anything within the red hat ecosystem. And I think, you know, for us this is also then become also a journey about operational efficiency. We're working with many of our clients is we're kind of chatting about before about their cloud operating model, about their transformation um and ultimately in many cases about consumption of cloud as a service. Um and so um as we, you know, extend our own cloud capabilities, you know, out into other environment through distributed cloud program, what we refer to as as IBM cloud satellite, you know, that enables consistent and secure deployment of cloud um into any environment um where someone needs, you know, cloud to be operated. Um And that operating model conversation with our clients, you know, has to do with their own open shift environments that has to do with their software from IBM, it has to do their cloud services. And we're really ultimately looking to partner with clients to find efficiency in each stage of that journey and application modernization in deployment and then in getting consistency across all their environments, leveraging everything from uh the red hat, you know, ACM capabilities for cluster management up through a i for beauty shops and automation and use of a common console across services. And so it's an exciting time because we've been able to align our portfolio, get consistency and delivery of the red half capabilities across our full portfolio and then enable clients to progress to really efficient consumption of cloud. >>That's awesome. Great stuff there. I got to ask you the question that's on probably your customers minds. They say, okay, Hillary, you got me sold me on this. I get what's going on, I just gotta go faster. How do I advance my hybrid cloud model faster? What are you gonna do for me? What do you have within the red hat world and IBM world? How are you gonna make me go faster? That's in high quality way? >>Yeah. You know, we often like to start with an assessment of the application landscape because you move faster by moving strategically, right? So assessing applications and the opportunity to move most quickly into a cloud model, um, what to containerized first, what to invest in lift and shift perspective, etcetera. So we we help people look at um what is strategic to move and where the return on investment will be the greatest. We help them also with migrations, Right? So we can help jump in with additional skills and establish a cloud center of competency and other things like that. That can help them move faster as well as move faster with us. And I think ultimately choosing the right portfolio for what is defined as cloud is so important, having uh, an open based architecture and cloud deployment choice is so important so that you don't get stuck in where you made some of your initial decisions. And so I think those are kind of the three core components to how we're helping our clients move as quickly as possible and at the rate and pace that the current climate frankly demands of everyone. >>You know, I was joking with a friend the other night about databases and how generations you have an argument about what is it database, what's it used for. And then when you kind of get to that argument, all agree. Then a new database comes along and then it's for different functions. Just the growth in the internet and computing. Same with cloud, you kind of see a parallel thing where it's like debate, what is cloud? Why does he even exist? People have different definitions. That was, you know, I mean a decade or so ago. And then now we're at almost another point where it's again another read definition of, okay, what's next for cloud? It's almost like an inflection point here again. So with that I got to ask you as a fellow and IBM VP and Cto, what is the IBM cloud because if I'm going to have a discussion with IBM at the center of it, what does it mean to me? That's what people would like to know. How do you respond to that? >>Yeah. You know, I think two things I think number one to the, to the question of accelerating people's journeys to the cloud, we are very focused within the IBM cloud business um on our industry specific programs on our work with our traditional enterprise client base and regulated industries, things like what we're doing in cloud for financial services, where we're taking cloud, um and not just doing some sort of marketing but doing technology, which contextualize is cloud to tackle the difficult problems of those industries. So financial services, telco uh et cetera. And so I think that's really about next generation cloud, right? Not cloud, just for oh, I'm consuming some sauce, and so it's going to be in the cloud. Um but SAS and I SV capabilities and an organization's own capabilities delivered in a way appropriate to their industry in in a way that enables them to consume cloud faster. And I think along those lines then kind of second thing of, you know, whereas cloud headed the conversation in the industry around confidential computing, I think is increasingly important. Um It's an area that we've invested now for several generations of technology capability, confidential computing means being able to operate even in a cloud environment where there are others around um but still have complete privacy and authority over what you're doing. And that extra degree of protection is so important right now. It's such a critical conversation um with all of our clients. Obviously those in things like, you know, digital assets, custody or healthcare records or other things like that are very concerned and focused about data privacy and protection. And these technologies are obvious to them in many cases that yes, they should take that extra step and leverage confidential computing and additional data protection. But really confidential computing we're seeing growing as a topic zero trust other models like that because everyone wants to know that not only are they moving faster because they're moving to cloud, but they're doing so in a way that is without any compromise in their total security, um and their data protection on behalf of their clients. So it's exciting times. >>So it's so exciting just to think about the possibilities because trust more than ever now, we're on a global society, whether it's cyber security or personal interactions to data signing off on code, what's the mutability of it? I mean, it's a complete interplay of all the fun things of uh of the technology kind of coming together. >>Absolutely, yeah. There is so much coming together and confidential computing and realizing it has been a decade long journey for us. Right? We brought our first products actually into cloud in 2019, but its hardware, it's software, it services. It's a lot of different things coming together. Um but we've been able to bring them together, bring them together at enterprise scale able to run entire databases and large workloads and you know um pharmaceutical record system for Germany and customer records for daimler and um you know what we're doing with banks globally etcetera and so you know it's it's wonderful to see all of that work from our research division and our developers and our cloud teams kind of come together and come to fruition and and really be real and be product sizable. So it's it's very exciting times and it's it's a conversation that I think I encourage everyone to learn a little bit more about confidential computing. >>Hillary hunter. Thank you for coming on the cube. Vice President CTO and IBM fellow which is a big distinction at IBM. Congratulations and thanks for coming on the Cuban sharing your insight. Always a pleasure to have you on an expert always. Great conversation. Thanks for coming on. >>Thanks so much for having me. It was a pleasure. >>Okay, so cubes coverage of red Hat Summit 21 of course, IBM think is right around the corner as well. So that's gonna be another great event as well. I'm john Feehery, a host of the cube bringing all the action. Thanks for watching. Yeah.

>>Good morning. Good afternoon. And good evening. I am Kevin Duke with HPE GreenLake cloud services and welcome to the HPE GreenLake per private cloud session. I enjoined today by Raj mystery and Steve show Walter, who will walk us through today's presentation and demonstration. We'd like to keep this session interactive. So please submit your questions in the chat window. We have subject matter experts on the line to answer your questions. So with that, I'll hand over to Raj Kilz. Thanks Kevin. So cloud is now fast becoming a reality. We says HPE and what our customers say to is that it's not an expectation anymore. It's an absolute necessity. So the research and the stats that you see on the screen, just kind of like prove that over the last five to six years, organizations, enterprises are adopting cloud. Be it in the data center with the hyperscalers are a mixture of both. >>But the interesting thing that we see now is a moving investment to basically increase private cloud capability. Uh, and in that vein, what we've done with Greenlight cloud services is create a rich portfolio that delivers that cloud-like experience either at the edge in your data center, co-location the actually matches and actually embraces the work that you do with the hyperscalers. What we're doing here is we're providing self-service capability elasticity in the means and the way that you would use this and the way that you would flex things open down more importantly, all of this is one and operated for you, which comes true to what we say in terms of delivering that cloud experience within those locations, being at the edge, the data center or the Colwell, um, Greenlight for private cloud was initially launched, uh, in summer 2020, it was the first iteration of what we call the Greenlight platforms. >>What we're trying to do with this element of the Greenlight cloud services portfolio is four things which is eliminate the complexity of building things that live, breathe, behave, and act like in a cloud-like manner in the data center, because this is hard. Yeah, the visibility around the way that you would manage and understand and run and operate certain elements of that cloud, uh, the governance and the compliance pace, which is important, especially when it comes to things like applying policies, et cetera, that you would have. And then the skills gap that we do from our managed services perspective, that takes things off. So from an infrastructure standpoint, beginning of the left, well class HPE compute storage networks, which is embracing the virtualization and the software defined networking layer together with a pretty rich cloud automation and orchestration portal all wrapped up for you. Pre-built pre architected, removing complexity, increasing time to value, uh, and, and, uh, the, the actual delivery timescales, if we move to the actual experience, although this is actually, uh, embracing the way that you would access these, uh, solutions. >>So in, through GreenLake central, uh, that's where your other service experience begins with HPE is your entry point into the world of as a service from here on which you would actually access that service. So from a, from a private cloud standpoint, this is where you would initiate the cloud management portal. And then you would begin either working in that and the roles of either administrator, consumer, et cetera. Lastly, you know, pushing buttons and provisioning stuff is really easy, but a lot of our focuses is in the pulse provisioning processes, understanding is it turned on? Is it off? How much is it costing me? Am I getting the most efficiency out of it? Am I running out of capacity to deliver services to my users? All of this is finally wrapped up with the managed platform capability, which means you now have to understand and treat Hewlett-Packard enterprise as an MSP and a cloud provider within our data center. We take care of the infrastructure, the software, and the experience, your entry point is that the cloud management layer, that's how we get you going. >>Hey, Roger, I know we made some announcements earlier today about a new scalable form factor version of private cloud. I was wondering if maybe you could talk about how that extends the value proposition for customers >>Question Steve. Um, so what the scalable form factor is really is it's also looking at market feedback, understanding of what our customers are bringing this as a entry point into the smaller and the more medium enterprise who are looking to deliver private cloud capabilities, you know, making it easier for them to embrace it and then scale. The other differences is the way that we actually have flexibility in the way that that cloud solution now grows. So different options, uh, available to customers in terms of what they want to do. We typically talk as a team and to our customers about different roles. So we have a notion of the cloud administrator or the cloud operator. This is more of your classic kind of like administrative role. So this is where our customers would come in, right at the cloud management layer and begin configuring their EMR environment, networking services, et cetera, from here, onwards is the cloud consumer. >>So applications, line, application, developers, lines of business, et cetera, they're presented with a self-service catalog for them to come and provision stuff. It could be normal VMs. It could be kind of like applications depending on what the administrators or the operators of Charles and to present to them. Lastly, it's around, how do I understand what's going on in the environment? So the focus, as I mentioned beforehand, visibility to them understand what's happening to then optimize later. So addressing the needs of lines of, or it leaders and business leaders within our customer base, although this then begins from our central point of access, which is GreenLake central from here, services and solutions that customers subscribe to are presented, depending on who you are, your privileges, your role within the actual environment, you get different options. So a cloud administrator may see different things in central because they require administrative functions within the cloud environment. I consume it such as me may have limited views in central access a service, but I can basically only read our provision set, things that are done for me from a lines of business or from an it leadership perspective. It's about providing predictive billing visibility into cost, understanding from a planning standpoint and allowing people to optimize it, ease and speed. So central is where your journey begins. And then from within there, you launch the necessary service like you're subscribed to today's focus is the private cloud. >>So who is this a solution built for Raj? Uh, initially we started off at the large enterprise level, Kevin, but what we've done as we did as HPE has listened to our customers. So we've reintroduced on them. We're launching today, the scalable form factor to address the needs of a multitude of clients, both large and small and enable people to have different kind of like deployment types. So remote office branch office for the larger customers, and for those smaller enterprises wanting to begin their private cloud journey, a great way for them to do that with HPE. >>All right. Thank you. >>Um, how does the customer access the private cloud environment, uh, by agreeing like central Kevin? Great question. That's our entry point for any of the services? Uh, easier to see later on in the demo that Steve's going to walk through, uh, it's where customers come in and depending on role access, privilege, rights, et cetera, you are presented with your services. And from within that you access the service depending on the role that's been assigned to you. So state, why don't you show us a little bit about what a cloud administrator or a cloud operator can do within the environment? Sure. Happy to rush. As we talked to these personas are use cases. You know, our experience, as Raj mentioned, will always start in GreenLake central. So the role or persona I'm taking on here is that of an administrator of this private cloud environment. So again, I start off by logging into GreenLake central. Once this stood up, services stood up and available, uh, within my data center, I see the green Lake for private cloud tile, which gives me an overview of services I'm consuming. And some of the things that might be running in that environment, clicking on the tile, takes me to the cloud management platform dashboard. This is where I, as an administrator can configure and control lots of things in the environment on behalf of my end users. So a couple of examples of things I might want to do first off. Uh, there's an important >>Notion of grouping that we use for access control within the environment. So I may want to organize my users into groups to control what they can see, what they can do, what sort of policies I can apply to them next. I probably want to configure the underlying software defined network that Raj talked about. So again, we deliver a software defined networking capability from within the software defined network. This is where I can create things like underlying networks, underlying distributed V switches at an IP address pools. I can also configure and manage software defined routers, firewall rules, and some of those sorts of things within the environment, uh, in the IP address pools I have that I want to make available to some of those underlying networks I could manage from within here as well. We also feature software to find load balancing capabilities. So again, if I expect to my developers or my end users, to be able to provision resources that require some load balancing, I can create those load balancers define the types of load balancing I want to make available to those end users from within here as well. >>Finally, I can manage keys and certificates. So if I have things like key payers or SSL certificates, again, that I want to make available to my end users, um, I could manage all that from within here. And then one of the final things I might want to do is start to manage a, an automation library. So a library of virtual images, I don't want to make available for, for my end users because the private cloud solution is based on VMware. I might want to just pull in some existing VMware images. I have, I might want to create some new custom images, but really I have a central place to be able to manage that library of images and then, you know, decide who has access to which images and how I want to make those available to end users users to be able to provision and lifecycle manage. >>So that's a quick overview of some of the administrative capabilities, uh, Kevin, any questions at this point about that capability? I got one for you customers bring their own tooling to the private cloud. Oh yeah. So that's a great question. So, you know, almost every customer I talk to nowadays has made a large investment, typically in some sort of automation tooling. And one of the things that we want to provide is the ability to surface that tooling and kind of allow customers to be able to reuse that tooling within our private cloud environment. So within the private cloud platform, as an administrator, I can create all sorts of scripts and, you know, maybe some basic capabilities I wanted to find for scripts, but they also have the ability to integrate automation platforms. So we can see in this particular environment, I've, I've onboarded a, uh, a set of Ansible playbooks that exist in a get repo. Uh, I really just point the cloud management platform to that repo it scrapes all the playbooks that it finds there and those become available as tasks and workflows that I can use, uh, after I provisioned BM. So again, I can reuse that investment that I've made in automating things like application provisioning, application configuration for my end users within my environment. >>I've got another one for you. Uh, how do customers improve control and governance of their private cloud? Yeah. So there are a couple of different ways to do that. So, you know, we'll talk specifically. One of the capabilities I have within, uh, the cloud management platform is the ability to create, uh, policies. Policies are really a way I can provide my users with, you know, self-service access to kind of go do the things that they need to do, but provide some control around what they can do. So there's all sorts of policies I can create. So policies around things like if I've got certain group of users that I want to require to get provision approval, anytime they approve provision something, I wanted an administrator to approve it. I can also limit the things that maybe a group of consumers of consumers can consume within my environment. Maybe I want to define a certain host name rule. So rather than create your own host names, I have a rule I want applied. Um, if tagging and showback is important, I might want to force some tags within my environment, say, Hey, anybody who provisioned something needs to provide me a value for this tag. And then I can define how that applies within the environment. So hopefully that answers some questions and gives you a feel of how these cloud administrators would work within the environment, TB to be able to manage the overall environment itself. >>Perfect. Thanks Steve. So what we've just described in seeing is, is the ability for a cloud administrator to a do day one tasks, set things up, set some services off and more importantly, apply some rules, controls, and governance. So it keeps users safe and it keeps it happy. Really. So let's say I'm Raj, I'm the head of applications and I've got a team of developers. So I'm now going to come in as a consumer. Can you show me what I can do as a consumer pleaser? >>Sure. Raj. So again, just like with the administrative use case, we talked about as a, as a cloud consumer, my experience starts in GreenLake central. So once I'm logged into GreenLake central, if I've been provided access to the environment by my administrators, I see the green Lake for private cloud tile, and I click on it to get to the cloud management platform. Just like the administrator you use. Now, I probably see a lot less because I probably have a lot less capabilities here, but one of the first places I'd probably want to go is take a look at what instances have been provisioned and maybe provision an instance on my own. So, you know, instance provisioning is very simple. Really. It's just a few clicks and answer a few questions. Uh, so in this case, if I have access to multiple groups, so kind of that logical separation that I talked about, I'd first pick, you know, which group is this a part of? >>Uh, again, in my particular case, I can provide a freeform name because that's the policy that's been set up for me. Um, I've got a forced tag, right? So I have to provide a tag or a label that tells me what, uh, what, what area this is a part of. And as I continue to drill down, now I get to a point where I can select my image based on the images that have been made, made available to me. Um, I can choose a size of a VM. So we have sort of some pre-provision sizes that might administrators have made available to me. And in some cases I can customize some things within those sizes, or maybe I can't, again, just depending on how this was created, select the network that I want to connect to, uh, and provide a few other options. One, the things I do want to talk about is this notion of tagging tagging is very important from a showback perspective. >>And we'll talk about when we get to cost analysis, how we can use any tags that get applied here to be able to do some show back reporting later. So if I want to provide a tag for an owner to make sure I can always write a report that says, show me everything that Steve has consumed. I've got the ability to provide those tags here. And again, through a policy, I can make those tags required. A couple of other choices. I have any of that available automation that maybe my administrators have made available. I can run here. I can select some scaling of my application, maybe go ahead and auto select the backup schedule, manage some lifecycle actions if maybe this VM only needs to run during weekdays. And I don't need it on the weekends. I can have it automatically shut down and start up. >>And at the end, just click on complete. Uh, and my VM is often being built. And then, you know, once my VMs are up and running, I've got access to be able to manage those VMs on a running basis. So, you know, if I have a VM that's running and I want to be able to manage it very simple again, from within the cloud management platform to go take a look at maybe how this VM is performing, maybe I want to log into the console. Maybe I want to take a look at the log stash that, you know, the log log error messages that this VM has created, or maybe I just want to stop it, start, it can create an image from it, or maybe, you know, after I've provisioned, it runs some of those workflows on it as a, as a end-user, I've got the capability to kind of fully manage and fully control those VMs once I have them up and running. >>So that's a quick overview of that cloud consumer use case. Uh, Kevin, do you have any questions right now about that use case? Yeah, I do, uh, cloud consumers today want more than a VM, so how can a private cloud deliver more value for cloud consumers? Yeah, so that's a great question. So we talked a little bit about the cloud management platforms, ability to integrate with existing automation, for things like, uh, application installation and configuration. Uh, but one thing I didn't talk about is kind of an alternate way. We can use that and that's through this notion of blueprints. So within the cloud management platform, I, as a developer or as an administrator can set up blueprints, which are really, uh, very complex applications. These could be multi-node multi-tiered applications where each tier may have a different application installed. They may be load balanced, all those sorts of things, and I can stitch all those together and make them available as a catalog item. >>It's just kind of one simple catalog item for an end user to consume. So they don't have to understand all the complexity or all the multiple nodes or all the workflows required on the backend to provide that service. I've already done all that hard work. I advertise it to them and they don't have to know, again, in this particular case, I've got a web tier made up of a couple of VMs, a database tier made up of a couple of VMs. Uh, there's some automation running, maybe through those Ansible playbooks, uh, in, in the backend to make all those things happen really, as an end user, I just say, Hey, I want one of these applications. I may need to answer a few questions, uh, depending on how the application or their blueprint is built. And then I could push that out as an application. And again, I don't have to understand all the complexities that make up that multi-node multi-tiered application on in the background >>Stay. That's really cool. So like phase as good as it can be. So, right. So we've pushed some buttons, we've set some stuff up, we've provisioned some stuff. So right at the beginning, you know, we spoke about the post provisioning stuff. So how do we actually manage the costs and also look at their usage within their environment, which is also important to our customers. >>Yeah. So it's a great question, Raj. So, you know, obviously customers want to understand what their overall green link consumption is, what their bill is, how all those things relate together. And then they probably want to do much more detailed cost analysis as well. So the good news here, we provide all this tooling and all this is available right through GreenLake central. So a couple of the tiles that you'll see in GreenLake central tie into the private cloud solution, just like they would any other GreenLake solution. So if I want to see overall what I've consumed, uh, within my private cloud, as a GreenLake resource, I can drill down to understand, Hey, what was actually metered as what I consumed, how did that relate to my GreenLake rate card? You know, how did that, how did that create the number that appeared on my GreenLake bill for this particular service at the end of the month, I've also got the tools to do capacity planning, again, just like every other green Lake environment. >>Uh, we want to be able to show kind of that capacity planning view so customers can understand kind of what they're consuming, uh, what direction that's trending. And when we need to add some, we may need to add some more additional capacity. So again, when a customer needs more, it's already there and ready to go, they just start to consume it and pay for it as a part of their green Lake bill. So Greenlight customers have a dedicated account team that kind of works with them to keep an eye on that capacity. And again, make sure we're working with customers to make the right decisions about when is the right time to add additional capacity to the environment. And then finally, you know, our customers also get access to consumption analytics for much more detailed cost reporting. So within consumption analytics, I can take advantage of those tags that I talked about previously. >>So here's a report I created where I want to see my private cloud consumption and use really broken down by cost center. And by the VMs that my users within each of those cost centers is consuming. So I wrote a report to do some showback costing based on those tags. So in this particular case, I can tell, for example, the colo engineer cost center that Hey you over the last month, you've consumed 32, uh, elements within the private cloud environment. You know, your total cost for that was $860. And I can give them the ability to, you know, if they want drill down on this. So, you know, now they'll see every individual VM that was provisioned, uh, where it ran when it ran. And in this particular case, I've broken down the cost between compute and storage, because I really wanted to see those separately as separate line items, but, you know, really give customers the ability to do whatever showback or chargeback reporting makes sense within their organization, based on the tags. >>They want to apply it and how they want to be able to show and consume those costs. So, Kevin, any questions about, uh, sort of this cost analysis use case? Yep. Is there a way to proactively monitor consumption of the private cloud environment? Yeah, so we actually provide a couple of different ways to do that. Uh, one right within consumption analytics that we talked about, one of the capabilities I have is, is the ability to set a budget. So in this particular case, I've set a budget again, kind of by that cost center that I can take a look at, Hey, you know, what are all these cost centers consuming within this private cloud environment? Uh, and how does that relate to, you know, what maybe, uh, an amount that I've given them to be able to use? So I can take a look at it and see, Hey, in the current period, you know, I've got one, a cost center that's over budget two that are under budget and take a look at their historical use as well. >>Going back to the cloud management platform. I also have more of a hard way to be able to set those consumption boundaries, uh, by using a policy. So again, if I want to create a policy that says, Hey, you know, Steve can only have 20 VMs. Uh, once he's provisioned those 20 VMs, he can't have any more, um, you know, he's got to come back and ask for more. And again, you know, when I create this policy, I could apply it to a group or an individual user just kind of based on how I want to put those guard rails around that environment and then sort of do that around that environment. So there's kind of a way to do this in more of a soft way based on cost to understand budgets and get notifications. When I get close to my budget limits or more of a hard way to actually, you know, be able to limit resources that customers can consume within the environment itself. So with that, Raj, I'll throw it back to you. >>Thanks, Dave, >>Just to wrap up really, you know, Steve and Kevin, thank you for the great demonstration and the chat, really, um, a few things for the audience and our customers, uh, to understand what we're now doing with Greenlight for private cloud and other platform solutions is helping you to get started really, really quickly, allowing you to begin your journey with us at the right level. And then you can scale depending on how you are actually managing your transformation, be it from an infrastructure standpoint application standpoint, or you are looking to basically just modernize the way that you deliver services back out to your internal users. The other side of it is, is the important fact that we now act and behave very much like a cloud. So because we run those environments for you, we eliminate the complexity of feeding them all, Trang, all the infrastructure, the configuration, and the updates of the software layer. It leaves you free to basically deliver the services like Steve has just shown the other side of it. Final point, is this all usage based? Uh, so again, lowering kind of like the initial investment risk for you guys, allowing you to, uh, benefit from the way that we've actually integrated the solutions and technologies. So you can just embrace them and take advantage of. >>Excellent. Thank you, Raj. So I would like to thank you all for today. Thank >>You, Raj and Steve, for a brilliant demonstration. If you would like more information or like to speak to someone directly, then please fill out the poll by clicking on the poll option at the top of the chat box. So in closing, if you are interested in HPE GreenLake for private cloud, then please start a trial. It's easy. Thank you. Thank you all and goodbye for now..