>>Good morning. Good afternoon. And good evening. I am Kevin Duke with HPE GreenLake cloud services and welcome to the HPE GreenLake per private cloud session. I enjoined today by Raj mystery and Steve show Walter, who will walk us through today's presentation and demonstration. We'd like to keep this session interactive. So please submit your questions in the chat window. We have subject matter experts on the line to answer your questions. So with that, I'll hand over to Raj Kilz. Thanks Kevin. So cloud is now fast becoming a reality. We says HPE and what our customers say to is that it's not an expectation anymore. It's an absolute necessity. So the research and the stats that you see on the screen, just kind of like prove that over the last five to six years, organizations, enterprises are adopting cloud. Be it in the data center with the hyperscalers are a mixture of both. >>But the interesting thing that we see now is a moving investment to basically increase private cloud capability. Uh, and in that vein, what we've done with Greenlight cloud services is create a rich portfolio that delivers that cloud-like experience either at the edge in your data center, co-location the actually matches and actually embraces the work that you do with the hyperscalers. What we're doing here is we're providing self-service capability elasticity in the means and the way that you would use this and the way that you would flex things open down more importantly, all of this is one and operated for you, which comes true to what we say in terms of delivering that cloud experience within those locations, being at the edge, the data center or the Colwell, um, Greenlight for private cloud was initially launched, uh, in summer 2020, it was the first iteration of what we call the Greenlight platforms. >>What we're trying to do with this element of the Greenlight cloud services portfolio is four things which is eliminate the complexity of building things that live, breathe, behave, and act like in a cloud-like manner in the data center, because this is hard. Yeah, the visibility around the way that you would manage and understand and run and operate certain elements of that cloud, uh, the governance and the compliance pace, which is important, especially when it comes to things like applying policies, et cetera, that you would have. And then the skills gap that we do from our managed services perspective, that takes things off. So from an infrastructure standpoint, beginning of the left, well class HPE compute storage networks, which is embracing the virtualization and the software defined networking layer together with a pretty rich cloud automation and orchestration portal all wrapped up for you. Pre-built pre architected, removing complexity, increasing time to value, uh, and, and, uh, the, the actual delivery timescales, if we move to the actual experience, although this is actually, uh, embracing the way that you would access these, uh, solutions. >>So in, through GreenLake central, uh, that's where your other service experience begins with HPE is your entry point into the world of as a service from here on which you would actually access that service. So from a, from a private cloud standpoint, this is where you would initiate the cloud management portal. And then you would begin either working in that and the roles of either administrator, consumer, et cetera. Lastly, you know, pushing buttons and provisioning stuff is really easy, but a lot of our focuses is in the pulse provisioning processes, understanding is it turned on? Is it off? How much is it costing me? Am I getting the most efficiency out of it? Am I running out of capacity to deliver services to my users? All of this is finally wrapped up with the managed platform capability, which means you now have to understand and treat Hewlett-Packard enterprise as an MSP and a cloud provider within our data center. We take care of the infrastructure, the software, and the experience, your entry point is that the cloud management layer, that's how we get you going. >>Hey, Roger, I know we made some announcements earlier today about a new scalable form factor version of private cloud. I was wondering if maybe you could talk about how that extends the value proposition for customers >>Question Steve. Um, so what the scalable form factor is really is it's also looking at market feedback, understanding of what our customers are bringing this as a entry point into the smaller and the more medium enterprise who are looking to deliver private cloud capabilities, you know, making it easier for them to embrace it and then scale. The other differences is the way that we actually have flexibility in the way that that cloud solution now grows. So different options, uh, available to customers in terms of what they want to do. We typically talk as a team and to our customers about different roles. So we have a notion of the cloud administrator or the cloud operator. This is more of your classic kind of like administrative role. So this is where our customers would come in, right at the cloud management layer and begin configuring their EMR environment, networking services, et cetera, from here, onwards is the cloud consumer. >>So applications, line, application, developers, lines of business, et cetera, they're presented with a self-service catalog for them to come and provision stuff. It could be normal VMs. It could be kind of like applications depending on what the administrators or the operators of Charles and to present to them. Lastly, it's around, how do I understand what's going on in the environment? So the focus, as I mentioned beforehand, visibility to them understand what's happening to then optimize later. So addressing the needs of lines of, or it leaders and business leaders within our customer base, although this then begins from our central point of access, which is GreenLake central from here, services and solutions that customers subscribe to are presented, depending on who you are, your privileges, your role within the actual environment, you get different options. So a cloud administrator may see different things in central because they require administrative functions within the cloud environment. I consume it such as me may have limited views in central access a service, but I can basically only read our provision set, things that are done for me from a lines of business or from an it leadership perspective. It's about providing predictive billing visibility into cost, understanding from a planning standpoint and allowing people to optimize it, ease and speed. So central is where your journey begins. And then from within there, you launch the necessary service like you're subscribed to today's focus is the private cloud. >>So who is this a solution built for Raj? Uh, initially we started off at the large enterprise level, Kevin, but what we've done as we did as HPE has listened to our customers. So we've reintroduced on them. We're launching today, the scalable form factor to address the needs of a multitude of clients, both large and small and enable people to have different kind of like deployment types. So remote office branch office for the larger customers, and for those smaller enterprises wanting to begin their private cloud journey, a great way for them to do that with HPE. >>All right. Thank you. >>Um, how does the customer access the private cloud environment, uh, by agreeing like central Kevin? Great question. That's our entry point for any of the services? Uh, easier to see later on in the demo that Steve's going to walk through, uh, it's where customers come in and depending on role access, privilege, rights, et cetera, you are presented with your services. And from within that you access the service depending on the role that's been assigned to you. So state, why don't you show us a little bit about what a cloud administrator or a cloud operator can do within the environment? Sure. Happy to rush. As we talked to these personas are use cases. You know, our experience, as Raj mentioned, will always start in GreenLake central. So the role or persona I'm taking on here is that of an administrator of this private cloud environment. So again, I start off by logging into GreenLake central. Once this stood up, services stood up and available, uh, within my data center, I see the green Lake for private cloud tile, which gives me an overview of services I'm consuming. And some of the things that might be running in that environment, clicking on the tile, takes me to the cloud management platform dashboard. This is where I, as an administrator can configure and control lots of things in the environment on behalf of my end users. So a couple of examples of things I might want to do first off. Uh, there's an important >>Notion of grouping that we use for access control within the environment. So I may want to organize my users into groups to control what they can see, what they can do, what sort of policies I can apply to them next. I probably want to configure the underlying software defined network that Raj talked about. So again, we deliver a software defined networking capability from within the software defined network. This is where I can create things like underlying networks, underlying distributed V switches at an IP address pools. I can also configure and manage software defined routers, firewall rules, and some of those sorts of things within the environment, uh, in the IP address pools I have that I want to make available to some of those underlying networks I could manage from within here as well. We also feature software to find load balancing capabilities. So again, if I expect to my developers or my end users, to be able to provision resources that require some load balancing, I can create those load balancers define the types of load balancing I want to make available to those end users from within here as well. >>Finally, I can manage keys and certificates. So if I have things like key payers or SSL certificates, again, that I want to make available to my end users, um, I could manage all that from within here. And then one of the final things I might want to do is start to manage a, an automation library. So a library of virtual images, I don't want to make available for, for my end users because the private cloud solution is based on VMware. I might want to just pull in some existing VMware images. I have, I might want to create some new custom images, but really I have a central place to be able to manage that library of images and then, you know, decide who has access to which images and how I want to make those available to end users users to be able to provision and lifecycle manage. >>So that's a quick overview of some of the administrative capabilities, uh, Kevin, any questions at this point about that capability? I got one for you customers bring their own tooling to the private cloud. Oh yeah. So that's a great question. So, you know, almost every customer I talk to nowadays has made a large investment, typically in some sort of automation tooling. And one of the things that we want to provide is the ability to surface that tooling and kind of allow customers to be able to reuse that tooling within our private cloud environment. So within the private cloud platform, as an administrator, I can create all sorts of scripts and, you know, maybe some basic capabilities I wanted to find for scripts, but they also have the ability to integrate automation platforms. So we can see in this particular environment, I've, I've onboarded a, uh, a set of Ansible playbooks that exist in a get repo. Uh, I really just point the cloud management platform to that repo it scrapes all the playbooks that it finds there and those become available as tasks and workflows that I can use, uh, after I provisioned BM. So again, I can reuse that investment that I've made in automating things like application provisioning, application configuration for my end users within my environment. >>I've got another one for you. Uh, how do customers improve control and governance of their private cloud? Yeah. So there are a couple of different ways to do that. So, you know, we'll talk specifically. One of the capabilities I have within, uh, the cloud management platform is the ability to create, uh, policies. Policies are really a way I can provide my users with, you know, self-service access to kind of go do the things that they need to do, but provide some control around what they can do. So there's all sorts of policies I can create. So policies around things like if I've got certain group of users that I want to require to get provision approval, anytime they approve provision something, I wanted an administrator to approve it. I can also limit the things that maybe a group of consumers of consumers can consume within my environment. Maybe I want to define a certain host name rule. So rather than create your own host names, I have a rule I want applied. Um, if tagging and showback is important, I might want to force some tags within my environment, say, Hey, anybody who provisioned something needs to provide me a value for this tag. And then I can define how that applies within the environment. So hopefully that answers some questions and gives you a feel of how these cloud administrators would work within the environment, TB to be able to manage the overall environment itself. >>Perfect. Thanks Steve. So what we've just described in seeing is, is the ability for a cloud administrator to a do day one tasks, set things up, set some services off and more importantly, apply some rules, controls, and governance. So it keeps users safe and it keeps it happy. Really. So let's say I'm Raj, I'm the head of applications and I've got a team of developers. So I'm now going to come in as a consumer. Can you show me what I can do as a consumer pleaser? >>Sure. Raj. So again, just like with the administrative use case, we talked about as a, as a cloud consumer, my experience starts in GreenLake central. So once I'm logged into GreenLake central, if I've been provided access to the environment by my administrators, I see the green Lake for private cloud tile, and I click on it to get to the cloud management platform. Just like the administrator you use. Now, I probably see a lot less because I probably have a lot less capabilities here, but one of the first places I'd probably want to go is take a look at what instances have been provisioned and maybe provision an instance on my own. So, you know, instance provisioning is very simple. Really. It's just a few clicks and answer a few questions. Uh, so in this case, if I have access to multiple groups, so kind of that logical separation that I talked about, I'd first pick, you know, which group is this a part of? >>Uh, again, in my particular case, I can provide a freeform name because that's the policy that's been set up for me. Um, I've got a forced tag, right? So I have to provide a tag or a label that tells me what, uh, what, what area this is a part of. And as I continue to drill down, now I get to a point where I can select my image based on the images that have been made, made available to me. Um, I can choose a size of a VM. So we have sort of some pre-provision sizes that might administrators have made available to me. And in some cases I can customize some things within those sizes, or maybe I can't, again, just depending on how this was created, select the network that I want to connect to, uh, and provide a few other options. One, the things I do want to talk about is this notion of tagging tagging is very important from a showback perspective. >>And we'll talk about when we get to cost analysis, how we can use any tags that get applied here to be able to do some show back reporting later. So if I want to provide a tag for an owner to make sure I can always write a report that says, show me everything that Steve has consumed. I've got the ability to provide those tags here. And again, through a policy, I can make those tags required. A couple of other choices. I have any of that available automation that maybe my administrators have made available. I can run here. I can select some scaling of my application, maybe go ahead and auto select the backup schedule, manage some lifecycle actions if maybe this VM only needs to run during weekdays. And I don't need it on the weekends. I can have it automatically shut down and start up. >>And at the end, just click on complete. Uh, and my VM is often being built. And then, you know, once my VMs are up and running, I've got access to be able to manage those VMs on a running basis. So, you know, if I have a VM that's running and I want to be able to manage it very simple again, from within the cloud management platform to go take a look at maybe how this VM is performing, maybe I want to log into the console. Maybe I want to take a look at the log stash that, you know, the log log error messages that this VM has created, or maybe I just want to stop it, start, it can create an image from it, or maybe, you know, after I've provisioned, it runs some of those workflows on it as a, as a end-user, I've got the capability to kind of fully manage and fully control those VMs once I have them up and running. >>So that's a quick overview of that cloud consumer use case. Uh, Kevin, do you have any questions right now about that use case? Yeah, I do, uh, cloud consumers today want more than a VM, so how can a private cloud deliver more value for cloud consumers? Yeah, so that's a great question. So we talked a little bit about the cloud management platforms, ability to integrate with existing automation, for things like, uh, application installation and configuration. Uh, but one thing I didn't talk about is kind of an alternate way. We can use that and that's through this notion of blueprints. So within the cloud management platform, I, as a developer or as an administrator can set up blueprints, which are really, uh, very complex applications. These could be multi-node multi-tiered applications where each tier may have a different application installed. They may be load balanced, all those sorts of things, and I can stitch all those together and make them available as a catalog item. >>It's just kind of one simple catalog item for an end user to consume. So they don't have to understand all the complexity or all the multiple nodes or all the workflows required on the backend to provide that service. I've already done all that hard work. I advertise it to them and they don't have to know, again, in this particular case, I've got a web tier made up of a couple of VMs, a database tier made up of a couple of VMs. Uh, there's some automation running, maybe through those Ansible playbooks, uh, in, in the backend to make all those things happen really, as an end user, I just say, Hey, I want one of these applications. I may need to answer a few questions, uh, depending on how the application or their blueprint is built. And then I could push that out as an application. And again, I don't have to understand all the complexities that make up that multi-node multi-tiered application on in the background >>Stay. That's really cool. So like phase as good as it can be. So, right. So we've pushed some buttons, we've set some stuff up, we've provisioned some stuff. So right at the beginning, you know, we spoke about the post provisioning stuff. So how do we actually manage the costs and also look at their usage within their environment, which is also important to our customers. >>Yeah. So it's a great question, Raj. So, you know, obviously customers want to understand what their overall green link consumption is, what their bill is, how all those things relate together. And then they probably want to do much more detailed cost analysis as well. So the good news here, we provide all this tooling and all this is available right through GreenLake central. So a couple of the tiles that you'll see in GreenLake central tie into the private cloud solution, just like they would any other GreenLake solution. So if I want to see overall what I've consumed, uh, within my private cloud, as a GreenLake resource, I can drill down to understand, Hey, what was actually metered as what I consumed, how did that relate to my GreenLake rate card? You know, how did that, how did that create the number that appeared on my GreenLake bill for this particular service at the end of the month, I've also got the tools to do capacity planning, again, just like every other green Lake environment. >>Uh, we want to be able to show kind of that capacity planning view so customers can understand kind of what they're consuming, uh, what direction that's trending. And when we need to add some, we may need to add some more additional capacity. So again, when a customer needs more, it's already there and ready to go, they just start to consume it and pay for it as a part of their green Lake bill. So Greenlight customers have a dedicated account team that kind of works with them to keep an eye on that capacity. And again, make sure we're working with customers to make the right decisions about when is the right time to add additional capacity to the environment. And then finally, you know, our customers also get access to consumption analytics for much more detailed cost reporting. So within consumption analytics, I can take advantage of those tags that I talked about previously. >>So here's a report I created where I want to see my private cloud consumption and use really broken down by cost center. And by the VMs that my users within each of those cost centers is consuming. So I wrote a report to do some showback costing based on those tags. So in this particular case, I can tell, for example, the colo engineer cost center that Hey you over the last month, you've consumed 32, uh, elements within the private cloud environment. You know, your total cost for that was $860. And I can give them the ability to, you know, if they want drill down on this. So, you know, now they'll see every individual VM that was provisioned, uh, where it ran when it ran. And in this particular case, I've broken down the cost between compute and storage, because I really wanted to see those separately as separate line items, but, you know, really give customers the ability to do whatever showback or chargeback reporting makes sense within their organization, based on the tags. >>They want to apply it and how they want to be able to show and consume those costs. So, Kevin, any questions about, uh, sort of this cost analysis use case? Yep. Is there a way to proactively monitor consumption of the private cloud environment? Yeah, so we actually provide a couple of different ways to do that. Uh, one right within consumption analytics that we talked about, one of the capabilities I have is, is the ability to set a budget. So in this particular case, I've set a budget again, kind of by that cost center that I can take a look at, Hey, you know, what are all these cost centers consuming within this private cloud environment? Uh, and how does that relate to, you know, what maybe, uh, an amount that I've given them to be able to use? So I can take a look at it and see, Hey, in the current period, you know, I've got one, a cost center that's over budget two that are under budget and take a look at their historical use as well. >>Going back to the cloud management platform. I also have more of a hard way to be able to set those consumption boundaries, uh, by using a policy. So again, if I want to create a policy that says, Hey, you know, Steve can only have 20 VMs. Uh, once he's provisioned those 20 VMs, he can't have any more, um, you know, he's got to come back and ask for more. And again, you know, when I create this policy, I could apply it to a group or an individual user just kind of based on how I want to put those guard rails around that environment and then sort of do that around that environment. So there's kind of a way to do this in more of a soft way based on cost to understand budgets and get notifications. When I get close to my budget limits or more of a hard way to actually, you know, be able to limit resources that customers can consume within the environment itself. So with that, Raj, I'll throw it back to you. >>Thanks, Dave, >>Just to wrap up really, you know, Steve and Kevin, thank you for the great demonstration and the chat, really, um, a few things for the audience and our customers, uh, to understand what we're now doing with Greenlight for private cloud and other platform solutions is helping you to get started really, really quickly, allowing you to begin your journey with us at the right level. And then you can scale depending on how you are actually managing your transformation, be it from an infrastructure standpoint application standpoint, or you are looking to basically just modernize the way that you deliver services back out to your internal users. The other side of it is, is the important fact that we now act and behave very much like a cloud. So because we run those environments for you, we eliminate the complexity of feeding them all, Trang, all the infrastructure, the configuration, and the updates of the software layer. It leaves you free to basically deliver the services like Steve has just shown the other side of it. Final point, is this all usage based? Uh, so again, lowering kind of like the initial investment risk for you guys, allowing you to, uh, benefit from the way that we've actually integrated the solutions and technologies. So you can just embrace them and take advantage of. >>Excellent. Thank you, Raj. So I would like to thank you all for today. Thank >>You, Raj and Steve, for a brilliant demonstration. If you would like more information or like to speak to someone directly, then please fill out the poll by clicking on the poll option at the top of the chat box. So in closing, if you are interested in HPE GreenLake for private cloud, then please start a trial. It's easy. Thank you. Thank you all and goodbye for now..

>>From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley. Palo Alto, California myth is a cute conversation. >>Hello and welcome to the cube studios in Palo Alto, California. For another cube conversation. We go in depth with thought leaders driving innovation across the tech industry. I'm your host, Peter Burris. It's a well known fact of life at this point in time. We're going to the cloud in some manner, way, shape or form. Every business that intends to undertake a digital transformation is going to find themselves in a situation where they are using cloud resources to build new classes of applications and accelerate their opportunities to create new markets that are more profitable. What folks haven't fully internalized yet though is what it means to govern those activities. What does it mean to use data that is in the cloud in a compliant and reliable way? What does it mean to allow rapid innovation while at the same time ensuring that our businesses are not compromised by new classes of risk, new classes of compliance issues as a result of making certain liberties, uh, with how we handle governance. So that's what we're going to talk about today and we've got a great conversation for you. Toby Knapp is a co founder and CTO of day two IQ and Charlie Betts is the principal analyst at Forrester. Toby. Charlie, welcome to the cube theater. All right, so Charlie, I'm going to start with you. I kind of outline the overall nature of the problem, but let's get it very specific. What is the problem that enterprises face today as they try to accelerate their use of technology in a way that doesn't compromise the risk and compliance concerns? >>Well, we are hearing the same story over and over again. Peter, uh, companies are starting on the cloud native journey and perhaps a dev ops journey. You know, there's some similarities there. You know, one leads to the other in many cases and they S they do a proof of concept and they do a pilot and they like the results. But both of those efforts had what from monopoly, we would call it a get out of jail free card. You know, they had a pass to bypass certain regulatory or governance or compliance controls. Now they want to scale it. They want to roll it out across the enterprise and you can't give every team a get out of jail free card. >>Well, let me dig into this because is it that the speed with which we're trying to create new things, is that the key issue? Is it that the new technologies like Coobernetti's lend themselves to new style that doesn't necessarily bring good governance along with it? What is, what are those factors that are driving this problem? >>I think the central factor, Peter, is the movement from stage gated governance to governance of continuous flow. We could unpack this in various ways, but really if you look at so many governance models and people ship them to us and we comb through them and it's getting, you know, doing a lot of out lately, what we see is over and over again, this idea that delivery pauses experts come in from their perspective with a checklist they go through, they check the delivery against the checklist, and then the Greenlight is given to move on. And this is how we've run digital systems for a long time now. But now we're moving towards continuous flow, continuous iteration, >>agile, agile, DevOps, >>dev ops, all the rest. And these methods are well suited to be supported by architectures like Coobernetti's. And there are certain things you can do with automation that are very beneficial in cloud native systems, but you're up against, you know, decades of policy that assume this older model is based on older guidance like ITIL and PIM, Bach and, and COBIT and all the rest. COBIT 2019 is still based on a plan build run model, >>which is not, is not necessarily a bad thing in the grand scheme of things, but it doesn't fit into a month long sprint. >>It doesn't fit. And more and more what we're seeing when I say stage Gates are going away, what we're seeing is that the life cycle becomes internalized to the team. You still plan, build, run. But it's not something that you can put controls >>on at the high level. And so the solution seems to be is that we need to be able to foster this kind of speedy acceleration that encourages the use of agile, uh, leads to a dev ops orientation. And somehow fold good solid governance practices right into the mix. What do you think the, let's take a look at 2025, what's it going to look like? And uh, even if we're not ready for it yet? >>Well, I think you were going to govern a lot more at the level of the outcome. You're going to govern what not how as much, but there are a lot of things that still are essential and just basic solid good practice such as not having 15 different ways or a hundred different ways to configure major pieces of infrastructure. You know, there's a, in the, some of the reports, uh, the state of DevOps report that came out, there was a, uh, a note in there or a finding in there that it was best to let the developers have a lot of choice. And I understand that developer autonomy is very important, but every time a development team chooses a new technology or a new way to configure an ex, an existing technology, that's an expansion of attack surface. And I'm very concerned about that, especially as we see things like Equifax with the, uh, the struts exploit, you know, we, we have to keep our environment secure, well patched up to date. And if you only have one or two ways that things are configured, that means your staff are more likely to do the right thing as opposed to, you know, infinite levels of variation, you know, on a hundred different ways of configuring. Coobernetti's >>well, presumably we don't want the infinite levels of variation to be revealed at the business level and not down at the infrastructure level. I think one of the things that folks mean or folks aren't intending or hope to be able to do with digital business you're alluding to this is creating a digital asset, a software based asset because ultimately it's going to be more integratable, but you lose the opportunity to integrate those things if you're increasing the transaction costs by introducing a plethora of discordant governance models. Is that what you're seeing as well, Toby? >>Absolutely. And I think, uh, you know, some aspects of cloud native that make this problem a lot bigger is actually, you know, cloud native encourages sort of a self service model for infrastructure. And also we're seeing our shift, um, off, uh, power and decision making towards developers, right? So you have developers introducing a lot of these new stacks, often in a very, you know, sort of bottoms up, um, organic way. So very quickly and enterprise finds themselves with, you know, 10, 15 different ways to provision infrastructure to provision communities, clusters. Um, and often, you know, the teams that are in charge of governance aren't even aware of these things, right? Yes. So, uh, I think it starts actually with that and you know, how can we find, uh, this balance of giving developers the flexibility they want, uh, you know, having them leverage the benefits of cloud native, but at the same time making the folks that are in charge of governance, uh, aware of what's going on in, in their enterprise, uh, making them aware of the different stacks that are provisioned. Uh, and then finding the right balance between that flexibility and enforcing governance. Uh, there's ways to do that. Um, you know, there what we see a lot is, is, uh, waste, uh, people building one stack on cloud provider, a different stack on cloud provider B, a third stack, you know, at the edge or in their data center. And so when it comes to patching, security issues, upgrading versions, you know, you, you're doing three, five times the, the amount of work. >>Well, let me ask you a question because we can see that the problem is this explosion in innovation at the digital level, uh, that is running into this, uh, the, the stricture of historical practices. And as a result, people are in running governance. What is it, I mean, if I think about this, it sounds to me like the developer tooling is getting better, faster than the governance tooling. Where are we in the marketplace in terms of thinking about technologies that can improve the productivity on the governance side so that we can bring governance models to the developers so they don't have to make decisions at that level? >>Right. I think where we are in the market is, um, so obviously cloud native and Kubernetes specifically has seen rapid adoption Indiana price, right? And I think, um, you know, the governance and tools are just now catching up. Right? Right. Um, so the typical journey we see is, uh, you know, folks try out Kubernetes, they try out cloud native technologies to have a very good first experience. It's easy. And so they kind of, uh, you know, forget some of the best practices that we've learned over the years for how to secure a production stack, how to make it upgradable, maintainable, how to govern workloads and versions, um, because they'll still, schools just simply didn't exist. Uh, so far we're now seeing these tools emerge. Um, and, and really it's the same approaches that have worked for us in the past for, for running these types of infrastructure. It's, um, you're having a central pane of class for visibility. What versions am I running? Uh, you know, first being aware of what's out there and then you'll centralizing management of these, of these stacks. Um, how do I, you know, lifecycle manage my, my Kubernetes clusters and all the related technologies. Those are the tools that are just now showing up in the market, >>but it's also got to be, I presume that, uh, a degree of, uh, presuming that the tooling itself does bring forward good governance practices into a modern world. If I got that right. >>Yeah, absolutely. I think this is one of the key things that the updated INO team, uh, the infrastructure and operations and our, our view is that these become platform teams. So we've maybe relieved the INO term behind we go with the platform teams. This is one thing that they should be doing is creating reference implementations. You know, the, you know, here's your hello world stack and it's perfectly compliant. Go solve your business problem and leave the undifferentiated heavy lifting to us. You know, and this is I think, uh, going should be a welcome message. Uh, assuming that the stack is providing all the services that the developer expects. >>Well it certainly suggests that there is a reasonable and rational separation of duties and function within a business. So the people that are close to the business of building the function that the business needs are out there doing it. Meanwhile, we've got infrastructure developers that are capable of building a platform that serves as multitude of purposes with the specificity required for each workload and in compliance with the overall organization. >>There's a key message that I want to reinforce with the audience as we think about the future of INO. I, we've been thinking a lot about it at Forester. What is the future of the traditional INO organization? If I say infrastructure that implies application and I'm talking about a stack that doesn't go away, you know, there will always be a stack, a layered architecture. What is being challenged is, when I say operations, that implies dev and I'm talking now about a life cycle. That's what's merging together. And so well, the life cycle becomes something that is held internally within your feature or component team and is no longer a suitable topic of governance. Absolutely. In terms of the layered infrastructure, this is where we, it's still a thing, you know, because yes, we will platform teams, component teams, feature teams facing the business or the end user. >>Well, it's all back to the idea that a resource is a reasonably well bound, but nonetheless with the appropriate separation, uh, of, of function that delivers some business outcome. And that's gonna include both infrastructure at a software level, an application at a software level. So look, we, you spent a lot of time talking to customers about these issues when they come back to you. Uh, where are you seeing successes most obviously and why? >>Yeah, so where we see successes is where, um, you know, organizations, um, figure out a way to give developers what they want, which is in the cloud native spaces. Every development team wants to own their own communities cluster. They want to, it is their sandbox. They want to install their own applications on there. They don't want to talk to different team when they install applications. So how can you give them that while at the same time enforcing the standards that you need to, right? How do you make sure those clusters follow a certain blueprint that have the right access control rules? Um, you know, sensitive information like, like credentials are distributed in the right way. The right versions of workloads are available. Organizations that figure out how to do that, uh, they are successful at this. So the government from a central place, they have um, you know, essential pane of glass. >>Um, you know, like our product commander where they essentially set up blueprints for teams. Um, each individual team can have their own cluster. It gets provisioned with this blueprint. And then from the central place I can say, all right, here is what my production clusters should look like. Right? Here are the secrets that should be available. Here are the access control rules that need to be set. And so you find the right balance that way, right? You can enforce your governance standards while at the same time giving developers their individual clusters that development their staging of production clusters. >>And here's the options and what is an edible option and what is not. Right. Yeah. So it seems to me as if I, I mentioned this earlier, if I think about digital business, it's the opportunity to not only turn process, we're increasingly digitized process, but the real promise also is to then find ways of bringing these things together, integrate the business in response to new opportunities or new, uh, competitive factors or regulatory factors, whatever else it might be, and literally reconfigure the business quickly. That has to be more difficult if we have a wide array of, of governance models and operational principles. Trolley is, you think about customer success, uh, what does it mean for the future to be able to foster innovation with governance so that the whole thing can come together when it needs to come together? >>Well, I think that we need to move to governing again, as I said earlier, governing >>what not. How uh, >>I believe that, uh, you know, teams should be, should be making certain promises and there's a whole idea of the theory that's out there. A guy named Mark Burgess who is, you know, well known in certain certain infrastructure as code circles. So what are the promises that the team makes within the larger construct of the team of teams and is that team being accountable to those promises? And I think this is the basis of some of the new operating models we're seeing like Holacracy and teal. I think we're in very early days of looking at this. But you know, yeah, you will be held accountable for you know, objectives and key results. But how you get there, you have more degrees of freedom and yet at an infrastructure level, this is also bounded by the fact that if this is a solved problem, if this is not interesting to the business, you shouldn't be burning brain power on solving it. You know, and maybe it was interesting, you know, a couple of years ago and there was a need to explore new technologies, but really the effort should be spent solving the customer's problems. Charlie Betts, principal analyst at Forrester, Toby not co founder and CTO of D to IQ. Thanks very much for being on the cube. Thank you. Thank you, Peter, and thank you for joining us for another cube conversation. Once again, I'm Peter Burris. See you next time..

>>we're back. >>This is Dave Volante. I'm with Wiki bond dot Oregon. This is Silicon angle's the cube where we extract the signal from the noise. We go into the events, we're bringing you the best guests that we can find. And we're here at the AWS summit. Amazon is taking the cloud world by storm. He was on, invented the cloud in 2006. They've popularized it very popular of course with developers. Everybody knows that story. Uh, Amazon appealing to the web startups, but what's most impressive is the degree to which Amazon is beginning to enter the enterprise markets. I'm here with my cohost Jeff Frick and Jeff, we heard Andy Jassy this morning just laying out the sort of marketing messaging and progress and strategies of AWS. One of the things that was most impressive was the pace at which they put forth innovations. We talked about that earlier, but also the pace at which they proactively reduce prices. Uh, that's different than what you'd see in the normal sort of enterprise space. Talk about that a little bit. >>Yeah. Again, I think it really speaks to their strategy to lock up the customer. It's really a lifetime value of the customer and making sure that they don't have a really an opportunity or a reason to go anywhere else. So as we discussed a little bit earlier, they leverage, you know, kind of the pure hardware economics of, of decreasing a computing power, decreasing storage, decreasing bandwidth, but then they also get all the benefits of scale. And I think what's in one of the interesting things that Andy talked about and kind of his six key messages was that it's actually cheaper to rent from them because of the scale than it is to buy yourself. And I know that's a pretty common knock between kind of a build or buy, um, kind of process you go through and usually you would think renting at some scale becomes less economical than if you just did it yourself. But because their scale is so massive because of the flexibility that you can bring, uh, computing resources to bear based on what you're trying to accomplish really kind of breaks down the, uh, the old age old thought that, you know, at scale we need to do it ourselves. >>Well, and that's the premise. Um, I think, and, uh, let's Brits break down a little bit about that, that analysis and, and Andy's keynote. So he put forth some data from IDC which showed that, uh, the Amazon cloud is cheaper than the, uh, a, a so-called private cloud or an in house on premise installation. You know, I certainly, there's, it's, it's a, it's an, it's depends, right? It really depends on the workload. That's somewhat of an apples to orange is going on here and the types of workloads that are going down in the AWS cloud, granted he's right and that they're running Oracle, they're running SAP, but the real mission critical workloads, what he calls mission critical aren't the same as what, you know, Citi would call mission critical. Right? So to replicate that level of mission criticality, uh, would probably almost most certainly be more expensive rental versus owning the real Achilles heel of, of, of any cloud, not just Amazon. >>Cloud really is getting data out. Um, moving data, right? Amazon's going to charge you not to get data in. They're gonna charge you to store it there to exercise, you know, compute. Uh, and then, but they're also gonna charge it if you wanted to take it out. That's expensive. The bandwidth costs and the extrication costs are expensive. Uh, the other issue with cloud again is data movement. It takes a long time to move a terabyte, let alone multiple terabytes. So those are sort of the two sort of Achilles heels of, of cloud. But that's not specific to Amazon's cloud. That's any cloud. Yeah. So we've got a great lineup today. Um, let's see. We've got Ariel Kelman coming on, uh, and I believe he's in the house. So we're going to take a quick break. Quick break. Right now we right back with Ariel Kelman, who's the head of marketing at AWS. Keep right there. This is the cube right back. >>we lift out all the programs out there and identified a gap in tech news coverage. Those shows are just the tip of the iceberg and we're here for the deep dive, the market beg for our program to fill that void. We're not just touting off headlines. We also want to analyze the big picture and ask the questions that no one else is asking. We work with analysts who know the industry from the inside out. So what do you think was the source of this missing? So you mentioned briefly there are, that's the case then why does the world need another song? We're creating a fundamental change in news coverage, laying the foundation and setting the standard, and this is just the beginning. We looked on all the programs out there and identified a gap in tech news coverage. There are plenty of tech shows that provide new gadgets and talk about the latest in gaming, but those shows aren't just the tip of the iceberg. And we're here for the deep dive. >>Okay, >>Dave Olanta. I'm with Wiki bond.org and this is Silicon angle's the cube where we extract signal from the noise. We bring you the best guest that we can find. We go into events like ESPN goes into sporting events, we go into tech events, we find the tech athletes and bring to you their knowledge and share with you our community. We're here at Moscone in San Francisco at the AWS summit. We're here with Arielle Kellman who's the head of worldwide marketing for AWS. Arielle, welcome to the cube. Thanks for having me, Dave. Yeah, our pleasure. I really appreciate you guys having us here. Great venue. Uh, let's see. What's the numbers? It looks like you know, many, many thousands, well over 5,000 people here by four or 5,000 people here. We're doing a about a dozen of these around the world, one to 4,000 people to help educate our customers about all the new things we're doing, all the new partners that are available to help them thrive in the AWS cloud. >>It's mind boggling the amount of stuff that you guys are doing. We just heard NG Jesse's keynote, for those of you who saw Andy's keynote at reinvent, a lot of similar themes with some, some new stuff in there, but one of the most impressive, he said, he said, other than security, one of the things that we're most proud of is the pace at which we introduce new services. And he talked about this fly wheel effect. Can you talk about that a little bit? Sure. Well, there's kind of two different things going on. The pace of innovation is we're really trying to be nimble and customer centric and ultimately we're trying to give our customers a complete set of services to run virtually any workload in the cloud. So you see us expanding a broader would additional services. And then as we get feedback we add more and more features. >>Yeah. So we're obviously seeing a big enterprise push. Uh, Andy was, was very, I thought, politically correct. He said, look, there's one model which is to keep charging people as much as you possibly can. And then there's our model, which is we proactively cut prices and we passed that on to customers. Um, and, and he also stressed that that's not something that's not a gimmick. It's not a sort of a onetime thing. Can you talk about that in terms of your philosophy and your DNA? It's just our philosophy. It's actually a lot less dramatic than is often portrayed in the press. Just the way we look at things as we're constantly trying to drive efficiencies out of our operations. And as we lower our cost structure, we have a choice. We can either pocket those savings as extra margin or we can pass those savings along to our customers in the form of lower prices. >>And we feel that the ladder is the approach that customers like and we want to make our customers happy. So this event, uh, we were talking off camera, you said you've been doing these now for about two years. You do re-invent once a year. That's your big conference out in Vegas and it's a very, very large event, very well attended. And you do these regionally and in and around the world, right. Talk about that a little bit. We do about a dozen of these a year. Um, we did, uh, New York a couple of weeks ago, London, Australia and Sydney. I'm going to go to India and Tokyo, really about a dozen cities in the world and it's a little tactic. I'm not going to beat all of them, but you know, the focus is to really, uh, deliver educational content. Uh, we'll do about maybe 12 to 16 technical breakout sessions all for free, uh, for, for customers and people who want to learn about AWS for the first time. >>And the, and the audience here is largely practitioners and partners, right? Can it talk about the makeup a little bit? Sure. It's a pretty diverse set of people. Um, we have a technical executives like CEOs and architects and we have lots of developers and then lots of people from our, our partner ecosystem of integrators wanting to, um, you know, brush up on the latest technologies and skills and a lot of people who just want to learn about the cloud and learn about AWS. I think there are a lot of misconceptions about AWS and I'd like to just tackle some of those with you if I may. So let me just sort of, let's list them off and you can respond. Yeah, we'll let our audience to sort of decide. So the first is that AWS has only tested dev workloads. Can you talk about that a little bit? >>Sure. Um, well test and dev local workloads are very popular. We saw, we covered that in the keynote. Um, and it's often a place where it organizations will start out with AWS, but it is by no means the most popular or most dominant workload. We have a lot of people migrating, uh, enterprise apps to the cloud. Um, if you look at, uh, in New York, uh, in our summit we talked about Bristol Myers Squibb, uh, running all of their, um, clinical trial simulations and reducing the amount of time it takes to run a simulation by 98%. Uh, if people are running Oracle, SharePoint, SAP, pretty much any workload in the cloud. And then another popular use is building brand new applications, uh, for the cloud. You can miss, some people call them cloud native applications. A good example is the Washington post who built an app called the social reader that delivers their content to Facebook and now as more people viewing their content, their than with their print magazines and they just couldn't have done that, uh, on premises. >>So, uh, the other one I want to talk about, we're going to do some serious double clicking on security so we don't have to go crazy on it, but, but there's a sort of common perception that the cloud is not secure. What do you guys say about that? Yeah, so, um, really our number one priority is security. You're looking at a security, operational performance, uh, and then our pace of innovation. But with security, um, what we want to do is to give enterprises everything they need to understand how our security works and to evaluate it and how it meets with their requirements for their projects. So it really all starts with our, our physical security, um, our network security, the access of our people. They're all the similar types of technologies that our customers are familiar with. And then they also tend to look at all the certifications and accreditations, SAS 70 type two SOC one SIS trust. >>I ATAR for our government customers. And then I think it was something a lot of people don't understand is how much work we've put into the security features. It's not just is the cloud secure, but can I interact and integrate, uh, your security functionality with all of my existing systems so we can integrate with people's identity and access systems. You could have a private dedicated connection from your enterprise to AWS with direct connect to, I really encourage anyone who has interest in digging into our security features to go to the security center and our website. It's got tons of information. So I'm putting on the spot. Um, what percent of data centers in the world have security that are, that is as good or better than AWS. It'd be an interesting thing for us to do a survey on. But if you think about security at the infrastructure layer down is what we take care of. >>Now when you build your application, you can build a secure app or non-secure app. So the customer has some responsibility there. But in terms of that cloud infrastructure, um, for a vast majority of our customers, they're getting a pretty substantial upgrade in their security. And here's something to think about is that, um, we run a multitenant service, so we have lots and lots of customers sharing that infrastructure and we get feedback from some of the most security conscious companies in the world and government agencies. So when our customers are giving us a enhancement request, and let's say it is, uh, an oil company like shell or financial services company like NASDAQ, and we implement that improvement because there's always new requirements. We implement that all of our hundreds of thousands of customers get those improvements. So it's very hard for a lot of companies to match that internally, to stay up to speed with all the latest, um, requirements that people need. >>Yeah. Okay. So, uh, and you touched on this as well as the compliance piece of it, but when you think of things like, like HIPAA compliance for example, I think a lot of people don't realize that you guys are a lead in that regard. Can you talk about that a little bit more? Yeah. So, uh, we have a lot of customers running HIPAA compliant, uh, workloads. Um, there's, there's one company or the, the Schumacher group, which does emergency room staffing out of Lafayette, Louisiana. And we, companies like that are going through the process. They have to follow their internal compliance guidelines for implementing a HIPAA compliant plan app. It's actually, it's more about how you implement and manage the application than the infrastructure, which is part of it. But we, we satisfy that for our customers. Let's talk a little bit about SLA. That didn't come up at least today in Andy's keynote, but it didn't reinvent and he made a statement at reinvent. >>He said, we've never lost a piece of business because of SLS. And that caught my attention and I said, okay, interesting. Um, talk about, uh, the criticisms of the SLA. So a lot of people say, wow, SLA, not just of Amazon's cloud, but any public cloud. I mean, SLA is a really a, in essence, a, an indication of the risk that you're able to take and willing to take. What are your customers tell you about SLS? The first thing is we don't hear a lot of questions about SLS from our customers. Some customers, it's very important that we have SLA is for most of our services, but what they're usually judging us on is the operational track record that we provide and doing testing and seeing how we operate and how we perform. Uh, and, uh, we had an analyst from IDC recently do a survey of a bunch of our customers and they found that on average the average app that runs on AWS had 80% less downtime than similar apps that are running on premises. >>So we have a lot of anecdotal evidence to suggest that our customers are seeing a reliability improvement by migrating their apps to AWS. You're saying don't judge us on the paper, judge us on our actual activities in production and in the field. Typically what most of our customers are asking for is they want to dig into the actual operational features and, and a track record. Now the other thing I want to address is the so called, you know, uh, uh, exit tax, right? It's no charge to get my data in there. I keep my data in there. You, you, you charged me for storing it for exercise and compute activity, but it's expensive to get it out. Um, how do you address that criticism? Well, our pricing is different for every service and we really model it around our customers to both really to really satisfy a broad set of use cases. >>So one example I think you may be talking about is I would Amazon glacier archive service, which is one penny per gigabyte per month. And for an archive service, we figured that most people want to keep their data in there for a long period of time so that we want to make it as cheap as possible for people to put it in. And if you actually needed to pull it out, the reason is because you may have had some disaster or you accidentally deleted something and that you are going to be, uh, you're going to be retrieving data on a far less frequent basis. So on an overall basis for most customers it makes sense that we could have done is made the retrieval costs lower and then made the storage costs higher. But the feedback we got from customers is, you know, archiving a majority of customers may never even retrieve that data at all. >>So it ended up being cheaper for a vast majority of our customers. I mean that's the point of glacier. If you put it there, you kind of hope you never have to go back and get it. Um, the other thing I wanted to ask you about is some of the innovations that we've seen lately in the industry, like a red shift, right? The data warehouse, you mentioned glacier. It was interesting. Andy said that glacier is the fastest growing service in terms of customers. Red shift was the fastest growing service, I guess overall at NAWS. So Redshift is an interesting move for you guys. Uh, that whole big data and analytics space. What if you could talk about that a little bit? If you talk to it, executives in the enterprise and even startups now, they have to analyze lots of data. Building a big data warehouse is, is one of the best examples of how much the pain of hardware and software infrastructure gets in the way of people. >>And there's also a gatekeeping aspect to it. If you're working in a big company and you want to run, you have a question and a hypothesis, you want to run queries against terabytes and petabytes of data, you pretty often have to go and ask for permission. Can I borrow some time from the data warehouse? No, no, no, no. You're not as important. Well, what are customers going to go, Hey, I'm going to go load the data, load a petabyte of data, run a bunch of analysis, and shut it down and only pay for a few hours. So it's not just about making a cheaper, it's about making use of technology possible where it was just not possible in feasible and cost prohibited before. Yeah, so that's an important point. I mean, it's not, it's not just about sort of moving workloads to the cloud, you know, the old saying a my mess for less. >>It's about enabling new business processes and new procedures and deeper business integration. Um, can you talk about that a little bit more? Add a little color to that notion of adding value beyond just moving workloads out of, you know, on premise into the cloud to cut costs, cut op ex, but enabling new business capabilities. When you remove the infrastructure burden between your ideas and what you want to do, you enable new things to be possible. I think innovation is a big aspect of this where if you think about if you reduce the cost of failure for technology projects so much that approaches zero, you change the whole risk taking culture in a company and more people can try out new ideas and companies can Greenlight more ideas because if they fail it doesn't cost you that much. You haven't built up all this infrastructure. So if you have more ideas that are, that are cultivated, you end up with more innovation. >>Whereas before people are too afraid to try new things. So I'm a reader of of Jeffrey's a annual letters. I mean I think they're great. They're Warren buffet like in that regard. One of the exact emphasizes, you know this year was the customer focus. You guys are a customer focused organization, not a competitive focused organization. And again, you got to recognize that both models can work, right? Can you talk about that a little bit? Just the church of the culture. Yeah, I mean when, you know, starts out with how we build our products. Anyone who has a new idea for a product, first thing they got to do is write the press release. So what our customers are going to see is it valuable to them. And then we get come get products out quickly and then we iterate with customers. We don't spend five years building the first version of something. >>We get it out quickly. Uh, sort of the, the, the lean startup, if you heard of the minimum viable product approach, get it out there and get feedback from customers. Uh, and iterate. We don't spend a lot of time looking at what our competitors are doing cause they're not the ones that pay our bill. They're not the ones that can hire and fire us. It's the customers. So I'm you've seen this thing come, you know, quite a ways. I mean, you were at Salesforce, right? Um, which I guess started at all in 99. You could sell that, look at that as the modern cloud sort of movement was, wasn't called cloud. And then you guys in 2006 actually announced what we now know is, you know, the cloud, where are we in terms of, you know, the cloud, you know, what ending is it? To use the sports analogy, I don't know what ending is it, but you know, it's an amazing time where there's such a massive amount of momentum of adoption of the cloud from every type of company, every type of government agency. >>But yet still, when you look at the percentage of it spend or you go talk to a large company and you say, even with all these projects, what percentage of your total projects, there's still tremendous growth ahead of us. Yeah. So, um, there's always that conversation about the pie charts. 70% of our, our effort is spent on keeping the lights on. 30% is spent on, on innovation. And I don't know where that number came from but, but I think generally anecdotally it feels about right. Um, talk about that shift. Yeah. Well I mean your customer base, you talk to any CIO, they don't like the idea of having 80% of their staff and budget being focused on keeping the lights on and the infrastructure would they like to do is to really shift the mix of what people are working on within their organization. It's not about getting rid of it, it's about giving it tools so that every ounce of effort they're doing is geared towards delivering things to the business. >>And that, that, that's what gets CIO is excited about the cloud is really shifting that and having a majority of their people building and iterating with their end users and with their customers. So we talked about the competition a little bit. I want to ask you a question in general, general terms, you guys have laid out sort of the playbook and there's a lot more coming. We know that, uh, but you know this industry quite well. You know, it's very competitive. People S people see what leaders are doing and they all sort of go after it. Why do you feel confident that AWS will be able to maintain its lead and Kennedy even extend its lead in why? Well, there's a couple things that we sort of suggest for customers to look at. I think first of all is the track record and experience of when you're looking at a cloud provider, have they been in this business for a long time? >>Do they have a services mentality where they've had customers trust them for their, for applications that really they trust their business on? Um, and then I think secondly, is there a commitment to innovation? Is there a pace of new features and new technologies as requirements change? And I think the other, the other piece that our customers really give us a lot of feedback on is that they can count on us Lauren prices, they can count on a real partnership as we get better at this and we're always learning as we get better and we reduce our cost structure, they're going to get to benefit and lower their costs as well. So I think those are kind of big things. The other thing is, is the customer ecosystem I think is a big part of it where, um, you know, this is technology. Uh, people need advice, they need, uh, best practices. >>They often need help. And I'm in a kind of analogy I make is if I have a problem with my phone, with my iPhone, I can probably close my eyes and throw it, I'm going to hit someone who also has an iPhone. I can ask them for help. Well, if you're a startup in San Francisco or London or if you're an enterprise in New York or Sydney, odds are that your colleagues, if they're doing cloud, they're doing it with AWS and you have a lot of people to help you out. A lot of people to share best practices with. And that's a subtle but important point is as, as industry participants begin to aggregate within your cloud, there's a data angle there, right? Because there's data that potentially those organizations could share if they so choose to a, that is a, that is a value. And as you say, the best practice sharing as well. >>I have two last questions for you. Sure. First is, is what gets you excited in this whole field? I think it's like seeing what customers are doing. I mean, that's the cool thing about, uh, offering cloud infrastructure is that anything is possible. Like we met Ryan, uh, who spoke from atomic fiction. These guys are the world's first digital effects agency that's 100% in the cloud. And to see that they made a movie and all the effects like the Robertson mech, his flight film without owning a single server, um, it's just, it's amazing. And to see what these guys can do, how happy they are to have a group of 30, 40 artists that, um, can say yes when the director says I want it to do differently. I want to add, go from 150 to 300 shots and to see how happy and excited they are. >>I mean that, that's what motivates me. Yeah. Okay. And then my last question, Ariel, is, um, you know, what keeps you up at night? What worries you? Well, I think, you know, the most important thing that we can't forget is to really keep our fingers on the pulse of the customers and what they want, and also helping them to figure out what they want next. Because if we don't keep moving, then we're not going to keep pace with what the customers want to use the cloud for. All right, Ariel Kelman thanks very much. Congratulations on the Mason's progress and we'll be watching and, and really appreciate, again, you having us here. Appreciate your time coming on. Good luck with the rest of the tour. I hope you don't have to do every city. It sounds like you don't, but, uh, but if it sounds like you've enjoyed them, so, uh, congratulations again. Great. All right. This is Dave Milan to keep it right there. This is the cube. We'll be back with our next guest right after this word.