>>Good morning friends. Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube Day four of our coverage of AWS. Reinvent continues. Lisa Martin here with Dave Valante. You >>Can tell it's day four. Yeah. >>You can tell, you >>Get punchy. >>Did you? Yes. Did you know that the Vegas rodeo is coming into town? I'm kind of bummed down, leaving tonight. >>Really? You rodeo >>Fan this weekend? No, but to see a bunch of cowboys in Vegas, >>I'd like to see the Raiders. I'd like to see the Raiders get tickets. >>Yeah. And the hockey team. Yeah. We have had an amazing event, Dave. The cubes. 10th year covering reinvent 11th. Reinvent >>Our 10th year here. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I mean we covered remotely in during Covid, but >>Yes, yes, yes. Awesome content. Anything jump out at you that we really, we, we love talking to aws, the ecosystem. We got a customer next. Anything jump out at you that's really a kind of a key takeaway? >>Big story. The majority of aws, you know, I mean people ask me what's different under a Adam than under Andy. And I'm like, really? It's the maturity of AWS is what's different, you know, ecosystem, connecting the dots, moving towards solutions, you know, that's, that's the big thing. And it's, you know, in a way it's kind of boring relative to other reinvents, which are like, oh wow, oh my god, they announced outposts. So you don't see anything like that. It's more taking the platform to the next level, which is a good >>Thing. The next level it is a good thing. Speaking of next level, we have a couple of next level guests from T-Mobile joining us. We're gonna be talking through their customers story, their business transformation with aws. Glenn Curing joins us, the director product and technology. And Nick Chris, senior manager, product and technology guys. Welcome. Great to have you on brand. You're on T-Mobile brand. I love it. >>Yeah, >>I mean we are always T-Mobile. >>I love it. So, so everyone knows T-Mobile Blend, you guys are in the digital commerce domain. Talk to us about what that is, what functions that delivers for T-Mobile. Yeah, >>So the digital commerce domain operates and runs a platform called the Digital commerce platform. What this essentially does, it's a set of APIs that are headless that power the shopping experiences. When you talk about shopping experiences at T-Mobile, a customer comes to either a T-Mobile website or goes to a store. And what they do is they start with the discovery process of a phone. They take it through the process, they decide to purchase the phone day at, at the phone to cart, and then eventually they decide to, you know, basically pull the trigger and, and buy the phone at, at which point they submit the order. So that whole experience, essentially from start to finish is powered by the digital commerce platform. Just this year we have processed well over three and a half million orders amounting to a billion and a half dollars worth of business for T-Mobile. >>Wow. Big outcomes. Nick, talk about the before stage, obviously the, the customer experience is absolutely critical because if, if it goes awry, people churn. We know that and nobody wants, you know, brand reputation is is at stake. Yep. Talk about some of the challenges before that you guys faced and how did you work with AWS and part its partner ecosystem to address those challenges? >>Sure. Yeah. So actually before I started working with Glen on the commerce domain, I was part of T-Mobile's cloud team. So we were the team that kind of brought in AWS and commerce platform was really the first tier one system to go a hundred percent cloud native. And so for us it was very much a learning experience and a journey to learn how to operate on the cloud and which was fundamentally different from how we were doing things in the old on-prem days. When >>You talk about headless APIs, you talk, I dunno if you saw Warren a Vogel's keynote this morning, but you're talking about loosely coupled, a loosely coupled system that you can evolve without ripping out the whole system or without bringing the whole system down. Can you explain that in a little bit more >>Detail? Absolutely. So the concept of headless API exactly opens up that possibility. What it allows us to do is to build and operator platform that runs sort of loosely coupled from the user experiences. So when you think about this from a simplistic standpoint, you have a set of APIs that are headless and you've got the website that connects to it, the retail store applications that connect to it, as well as the customer care applications that connect to it. And essentially what that does is it allows us to basically operate all these platforms without being sort of tightly coupled to >>Each other. Yeah, he was talking about this morning when, when AWS announced s3, you know, there was just a handful of services maybe at just two or three. I think now there's 200 and you know, it's never gone down, it's never been, you know, replaced essentially. And so, you know, the whole thing was it's an asynchronous system that's loosely coupled and then you create that illusion of synchronicity for the customer. >>Exactly. >>Which was, I thought, you know, really well described, but maybe you guys could talk about what the genesis was for this system. Take us kind of to the, from the before or after, you know, the classic as as was and the, and as is. Did you talk about that? >>Yeah, I can start and then hand it off to Nick for some more details. So we started this journey back in 2016 and at that point T-Mobile had seven or eight different commerce platforms. Obviously you can think about the complexity involved in running and operating platforms. We've all talked about T-Mobile being the uncarrier. It's a brand that we have basically popularized in the telco industry. We would come out with these massive uncarrier moves and every time that announcement was made, teams have to scramble because you've got seven systems, seven teams, every single system needs to be updated, right? So that's where we started when we kicked off this transformational journey over time, essentially we have brought it down to one platform that supports all these experiences and what that allows us to do is not only time to market gets reduced immensely, but it also allows us to basically reduce our operational cost. Cuz we don't have to have teams running seven, eight systems. It's just one system with one team that can focus on making it a world class, you know, platform. >>Yeah, I think one of the strategies that definitely paid off for us, cuz going all the way back to the beginning, our little platform was powering just a tiny little corner of the, of the webspace, right? But even in those days we approached it from we're gonna build functions in a way that is sort of agnostic to what the experience is gonna be. So over time as we would build a capability that one particular channel needed primary, we were still thinking about all the other channels that needed it. So now over a few years that investment pays off and you have basically the same capabilities working in the same way across all the channels. >>When did the journey start? >>2016. >>2016, yeah. It's been, it's been six years. >>What are some of the game changers in, in this business transformation that you would say these are some of the things that really ignited our transformation? >>Yeah, there's particularly one thing that we feel pretty proud about, which is the fact that we now operate what we call active active stacks. And what that means is you've got a single stack of the eCommerce platform start to finish that can run in an independent manner, but we can also start adding additional stacks that are basically loosely coupled from each other but can, but can run to support the business. What that basically enables is it allows us to run in active active mode, which itself is a big deal from a system uptime perspective. It really changes the game. It allows us to push releases without worrying about any kind of downtime. We've done canary releases, we are in the middle of retail season and we can introduce changes without worrying about it. And more importantly, I think what it has also allowed us to do is essentially practice disaster recovery while doing a release. Cuz that's exactly what we do is every time we do a release we are switching between these separate stacks and essentially are practicing our DR strategy. >>So you do this, it's, it's you separate across regions I presume? Yes. Is that right? Yes. This was really interesting conversation because as you well know in the on-prem world, you never tested that disaster recovery was too risky because you're afraid you're gonna take your whole business down and you're essentially saying that the testing is fundamental to the implementation. >>Absolutely. >>It, it is the thing that you do for every release. So you know, at least every week or so you are doing this and you know, in the old world, the active passive world on paper you had a bunch of capabilities and in in incidents that are even less than say a full disaster recovery scenario, you would end up making the choice not to use that capability because there was too much complexity or risk or problem. When we put this in place. Now if I, I tell people everything we do got easier after that. >>Is it a challenge for you or how do you deal with the challenge? Correct me if it's not a, a challenge that sometimes Amazon services are not available in both regions. I think for instance, the observability thing that they just announced this week is it's not cross region or maybe I'm getting that wrong, but there are services where, you know, you might not be able to do data sharing across region. How do you manage that? Or maybe there's different, you know, levels of certifications. How do you manage that discontinuity or is that not an issue for you? >>Yeah, I mean it, it is certainly a concern and so the stacks, like Glen said, they are largely decoupled and that what that means is practically every component and there's a lot of lot of components in there. I have redundancy from an availability zone point of view. But then where the real magic happens is when you come in as a user to the stack, we're gonna initially kind of lock you on one stack. And then the key thing that we do is we, we understand the difference between what, what we would call the critical data. So think of like your shopping carts and then contextual data that we can relatively easily reload if we need to. And so that critical data is constantly in an async fashion. So it's not interrupting your performance, being broadcast out to a place where we can recover it if we need to, if we need to send you to another stack and then we call that dehydration. And if you end up getting bumped to a new stack, we rehydrate you on that stack and reload that, that contextual data. So to make that whole thing happen, we rely on something we call the global cart store and that's basically powered by Dynamo. So Dynamo is highly, highly reliable and multi >>Reason. So, and, and presume you're doing some form of server list for the stateless stuff and, and maybe taking control of the run time for the stateful things you, are you leaning into to servers and lambda or Not yet cuz you want control over the, the, the EC two and the memory configs. What, what's, I mean, I know we're going inside the plumbing a little bit, but it's kind of fun. >>That's always fun. You >>Went Yeah, and, and it has been a journey. Back in 2016 when we started, we were all on EC twos and across, you know, over the last three or four years we have kind of gone through that journey where we went from easy two to, to containers and we are at some point we'll get to where we will be serverless, we've got a few functions running. But you know, in that journey, I think when you look at the full end of the spectrum, we are somewhere towards the, the process of sort of going from, you know, containers to, to serverless. >>Yeah. So today your team is setting up the containers, they're fencing 'em off, fencing off the app and doing all that sort of sort of semi heavy lifting. Yeah. How do you deal with the, you know, this is one of the things Lisa, you and I were talking about is the skill sets. We always talk about this. What's that? What's your team look like and what are the skill sets that you've got that you're deploying? >>Yeah, I mean, as you can imagine, it's a challenge and it's a, a highly specialized skill set that you need. And you talk about cloud, you know, I, I tell developers when we bring new folks in, in the old days, you could just be like really good at Java and study that for and be good at that for decades. But in the cloud world, you have to be wide in, in your breadth. And so you have to understand those 200 services, right? And so one of the things that really has helped us is we've had a partner. So UST Global is a digital services company and they've really kind of been on the journey up the same timeline that we were. And I had worked with them on the cloud team, you know, before I came to commerce. And when I came to, to the commerce team, we were really struggling, especially from that operational perspective. >>The, the team was just not adapting to that new cloud reality. They were used to the on-prem world, but we brought these folks in because not only were they really able to understand the stuff, but they had built a lot of the platforms that we were gonna be leveraging for commerce with us on the cloud team. So for example, we have built, T-Mobile operates our own customized Kubernetes platform. We've done some stuff for serverless development, C I C D, cloud security. And so not only did these folks have the right skill sets, but they knew how we were approaching it from a T-mobile cloud perspective. And so it's kind of kind of fun to see, you know, when they came on board with this journey with us, we were both, both companies were relatively new and, and learning. Now I look and, you know, I I think that they're like a, a platinum sponsor these days here of aws and so it's kind of cool to see how we've all grown together, >>A lot of evolution, a lot of maturation. Glen, I wanna know from you when we're almost out of time here, but tell me the what the digital commerce domain, you kind of talked about this in the beginning, but I wanna know what's the value in it for me as a customer? All of this under the hood plumbing? Yeah, the maturation, the transformation. How does it benefit mean? >>Great question. So as a customer, all they care about is coming into, going to the website, walking into a store, and without spending too much time completed that transaction and walkout, they don't care about what's under the hood, right? So this transformational journey from, you know, like I talked about, we started with easy twos back in the day. It was what we call the wild west in the, on a cloud native platform to where we have reached today. You know, the journey we have collectively traversed with the USD has allowed us to basically build a system that allows a customer to walk into a store and not spend a whole hour dealing with a sales rep that's trying to sell them things. They can walk in and out quickly, they go to the website, literally within a couple minutes they can complete the transaction and leave. That's what customers want. It is. And that has really sort of helped us when you think about T-Mobile and the fact that we are now poised to be a leader in the US in telco at this whole concept of systems that really empower the customers to quickly complete their transaction has been one of the key components of allowing us to kind of make that growth. Right. So >>Right. And a big driver of revenue. >>Exactly. >>I have one final question for each of you. We're making a Instagram reel, so think about if you had 30 seconds to describe T-Mobile as a technology company that sells phones or a technology company that delights people, what, what would you say if you had a billboard, what would it say about that? Glen, what do you think? >>So T-Mobile, from a technology company perspective, the, the whole purpose of setting up T-mobile's, you know, shopping experience is about bringing customers in, surprising and delighting them with the frictionless shopping experiences that basically allow them to come in and complete the transaction and move on with their lives. It's not about keeping them in the store for too long when they don't want to do it. And essentially the idea is to just basically surprise and delight our customers. >>Perfect. Nick, what would you say, what's your billboard about T-Mobile as a technology company that's delivering great services to its customers? >>Yeah, I think, you know, Glen really covered it well. What I would just add to that is I think the way that we are approaching it these days, really starting from that 2016 period is we like to say we don't think of ourselves as a telco company anymore. We think of ourselves as a technology company that happens to do telco among other things, right? And so we've approached this from a point of view of we're here to provide the best possible experience we can to our customers and we take it personally when, when we don't reach that high bar. And so what we've done in the last few years as a transformation is really given us the toolbox that we need to be able to meet that promise. >>Awesome. Guys, it's been a pleasure having you on the program, talking about the transformation of T-Mobile. Great to hear what you're doing with aws, the maturation, and we look forward to having you back on to see what's next. Thank you. >>Awesome. Thank you so much. >>All right, for our guests and Dave Ante, I'm Lisa Martin, you watching The Cube, the leader in live enterprise and emerging tech coverage.

(upbeat music) >> Hello, beautiful cloud community, and welcome back to AWS reInvent. It is day four here in fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada. My voice can feel it, clearly. I'm Savannah Peterson with my co-host Paul Gillin. Paul, how you doing? >> Doing fine, Savannah. >> Are your feet about where my voice is? >> Well, getting little rest here as we have back to back segments. >> Yeah, yeah, we'll keep you off those. Very excited about this next segment. We get to have a chat with one of our very favorite analysts, Keith Townsend. Welcome back to theCUBE. >> Savannah Page. I'm going to use your south names, Savannah Page. Thank you for having me, Paul. Good to see you again. It's been been too long since CubeCon Valencia. >> Valencia. >> Valencia. >> Well at that beautiful lisp, love that. Keith, how's the show been for you so far? >> It has been great. I tweeted it a couple of days ago. Amazon reInvent is back. >> Savannah: Whoo! Love that. >> 50, 60 thousand people, you know? After 40 thousand, I stop countin'. It has been an amazing show. I don't know if it's just the assignment of returning, but easily the best reInvent of the four that I've attended. >> Savannah: Love that. >> Paul: I love that we have you here because, you know, we tend to get anchored to these desks, and we don't really get a sense of what's going on out there. You've been spending the last four days traversing the floor and talking to people. What are you hearing? Are there any mega themes that are emerging? >> Keith: So, a couple of mega themes is... We were in the Allen session with Adam, and Adam bought up the idea of hybrid cloud. At the 2019 show, that would be unheard of. There's only one cloud, and that's the AWS cloud, when you're at the Amazon show. Booths, folks, I was at the VMware booth and there's a hybrid cloud sign session. People are talking about multicloud. Yes, we're at the AWS show, but the reality that most customers' environments are complex. Adam mentioned that it's hybrid today and more than likely to be hybrid in the future in Amazon, and the ecosystem has adjusted to that reality. >> Paul: Now, is that because they want sell more outposts? >> You know, outpost is definitely a part of the story, but it's a tactile realization that outposts alone won't get it. So, you know, from Todd Consulting, to Capgemini, to PWC, to many of the integrations on the show floor... I even saw company that's doing HP-UX in the cloud or on-prem. The reality is these, well, we've deemed these legacy systems aren't going anywhere. AWS announced the mainframe service last year for converting mainframe code into cloud workloads, and it's just not taking on the, I think, the way that the Amazon would like, and that's a reality that is too complex for all of it to run in the cloud. >> Paul: So it sounds like the strategy is to envelop and consume then if you have mainframe conversion services and HP-UX in the cloud, I mean, you're talking about serious legacy stuff there. >> Keith: You're talking about serious legacy stuff. They haven't de-emphasized their relationship with VMware. You know, hybrid is not a place, it is a operating model. So VMware cloud on AWS allows you to do both models concurrently if you have those applications that need layer two. You have these workloads that just don't... SAP just doesn't... Sorry, AWS, SAP in the cloud and EC2 just doesn't make financial sense. It's a reality. It's accepting of that and meeting customers where they're at. >> And all the collaboration, I mean, you've mentioned so many companies in that answer, and I think it's very interesting to see how much we're all going to have to work together to make the cloud its own operating system. Cloud as an OS came up on our last conversation here and I think it's absolutely fascinating. >> Keith: Yeah, cloud is the OS I think is a thing. This idea that I'm going to use the cloud as my base layer of abstraction. I've talked to a really interesting startup... Well actually it's a open source project cross plane of where they're taking that cloud model and now I can put my VMware vsphere, my AWS, GCP, et cetera, behind that and use that operating model to manage my overall infrastructure. So, the maturity of the market has fascinated me over the past year, year and a half. >> It really feels like we're at a new inflection point. I totally agree. I want to talk about something completely different. >> Keith: Okay. >> Because I know that we both did this challenge. So one of the things that's really inspiring quite frankly about being here at AWS reInvent, and I know you all at home don't have an opportunity to walk the floor and get the experience and get as many steps as Paul gets in, but there's a real emphasis on giving back. This community cares about giving back and AWS is doing a variety of different activations to donate to a variety of different charities. And there's a DJ booth. I've been joking. It kind of feels like you're arriving at a rave when you get to reInvent. And right next to that, there is a hydrate and help station with these reusable water bottles. This is actually firm. It's not one of those plastic ones that's going to end up in the recycled bin or the landfill. And every single time that you fill up your water bottle, AWS will donate $3 to help women in Kenya get access to water. One of the things that I found really fascinating about the activation is women in sub-Saharan Africa spend 16 million hours carrying water a day, which is a wild concept to think about, and water is heavy. Keith, my man, I know that you did the activation. They had you carrying two 20 pound jugs of water. >> Keith: For about 15 feet. It's not the... >> (laughs) >> 20 pound jugs of water, 20 gallons, whatever the amount is. It was extremely heavy. I'm a fairly sizeable guy. Six four, six five. >> You're in good shape, yeah. >> Keith: Couple of a hundred pounds. >> Yeah. >> Keith: And I could not imagine spending that many hours simply getting fresh water. We take it for granted. Every time I run the water in the sink, my family gets on me because I get on them when they leave the sink water. It's like my dad's left the light on. If you leave the water on in my house, you are going to hear it from me because, you know, things like this tickle in my mind like, wow, people walk that far. >> Savannah: That's your whole day. >> Just water, and that's probably not even enough water for the day. >> Paul: Yeah. We think of that as being, like, an 18th century phenomenon, but it's very much today in parts of Sub-Saharan Africa. >> I know, and we're so privileged. For me, it was just, we work in technology. Everyone here is pretty blessed, and to do that activation really got my head in the right space to think, wow I'm so lucky. The team here, the fabulous production team, can go refill my water bottle. I mean, so simple. They've also got a fitness activation going on. You can jump on a bike, a treadmill, and if you work out for five minutes, they donate $5 to Fred Hutch up in Seattle. And that was nice. I did a little cross-training in between segments yesterday and I just, I really love seeing that emphasis. None of this matters if we're not taking care of community. >> Yeah, I'm going to go out and google Fred Hutch, and just donate the five bucks. 'Cause I'm not, I'm not. >> (laughs) >> I'll run forever, but I'm not getting on a bike. >> This from a guy who did 100 5Ks in a row last year. >> Yeah. I did 100 5Ks in a row, and I'm not doing five minutes on a bike. That's it. That's crazy, right? >> I mean there is a treadmill And they have the little hands workout thing too if you want. >> About five minutes though. >> Savannah: I know. >> Like five minutes is way longer than what you think it is. >> I mean, it's true. I was up there in a dress in sequence. Hopefully, I didn't scar any anyone on the show floor yesterday. It's still toss up. >> I'm going to take us back to back. >> Take us back Paul. >> Back to what we were talking about. I want to know what you're hearing. So we've had a lot of people on this show, a lot of vendors on the show who have said AWS is our most important cloud partner, which would imply that AWS's lead is solidifying its lead and pulling away from the pack as the number one. Do you hear that as well? Or is that lip service? >> Keith: So I always think about AWS reInvent as the Amazon victory lap. This is where they come and just thumb their noses at all the other cloud providers and just show how far ahead they're are. Werner Vogels, CTO at Amazon's keynotes, so I hadn't watched it yet, but at that keynote, this is where they literally take the victory lap and say that we're going to expose what we did four or five years ago on stage, and what we did four or five years ago is ahead of every cloud provider with maybe the exception of GCP and they're maybe three years behind. So customers are overwhelmingly choosing Amazon for these reasons. Don't get me wrong, Corey Quinn, Gardner folks, really went at Adam yesterday about Amazon had three majors outages in December last year. AWS has way too many services that are disconnected, but from the pure capability, I talked to a born in the cloud data protection company who could repatriate their data protection and storage on-prem private data center, save money. Instead, they double down on Amazon. They're using, they modernize their application and they're reduced their cost by 60 to 70%. >> Massive. >> This is massive. AWS is keeping up with customers no matter where they're at on the spectrum. >> Savannah: I love that you use the term victory lap. We've had a lot of folks from AWS here up on the show this week, and a couple of them have said they live for this. I mean, and it's got to be pretty cool. You've got 70 thousand plus people obsessed with your product and so many different partners doing so many different things from the edge to hospital to the largest companies on earth to the Israeli Ministry of Defense we were just talking about earlier, so everybody needs the cloud. I feel like that's where we're at. >> Keith: Yeah, and the next step, I think the next level opportunity for AWS is to get to that analyst or that citizen developer, being able to enable the end user to use a lambda, use these data services to create new applications, and the meanwhile, there's folks on the show floor filling that gap that enable develop... the piece of owner, the piece of parlor owner, to create a web portal that compares his prices and solutions to other vendors in his area and adjust dynamically. You go into a restaurant now and there is no price menu. There's a QR code that Amazon is powering much of that dynamic relationship between the restaurateur, the customer, and even the menu and availability. It's just a wonderful time. >> I always ask for the print menu. I'm sorry. >> Yeah. You want the printed menu. >> Look down, my phone doesn't work. >> Gimme something I could shine my light on. >> I know you didn't have have a chance to look at Vogel's keynote yet, but I mean you mentioned citizen developer. One of the things they announced this morning was essentially a low code lambda interface. So you can plug, take your lamb dysfunctions and do drag and drop a connection between them. So they are going after that market. >> Keith: So I guess I'll take my victory lap because that was my prediction. That's where Amazon's next... >> Well done, Keith. >> Because Lambda is that thing when you look at what server list was and the name of the concept of being, not having to have to worry about servers in your application development, the logical next step, I won't take too much of a leap. That logical first step is, well, code less code. This is something that Kelsey Hightower has talked about a lot. Low code, no code, the ability to empower people without having these artificial barriers, learning how to code in a different language. This is the time where I can go to Valencia, it's pronounced, where I can go to Valencia and not speak Spanish and just have my phone. Why can't we do, at business value, for people who have amazing ideas and enable those amazing ideas before I have to stick a developer in between them and the system. >> Paul: Low-code market is growing 35% a year. It's not surprising, given the potential that's out there. >> And as a non-technical person, who works in technology, I've been waiting for this moment. So keep predicting this kind of thing, Keith. 'Cause hopefully it'll keep happening. Keith, I'm going to give you the challenge we've been giving all of our guests this week. >> Keith: Okay. >> And I know you're going to absolutely crush this. So we are looking for your 32nd Instagram real, sizzle hot take, biggest takeaway from this year's show. >> So 32nd Instagram, I'll even put it on TikTok. >> Savannah: Heck yeah. >> Hybrid cloud, hybrid infrastructure. This is way bigger than Amazon. Whether we're talking about Amazon, AWS, I mean AWS's solutions, Google Cloud, Azure, OCI, on-prem. Customers want it all. They want a way to manage it all, and they need the skill and tools to enable their not-so-growing work force to do it. That is, that's AWS reInvent 2019 to 2022. >> Absolutely nailed it. Keith Townsend, it is always such a joy to have you here on theCUBE. Thank you for joining us >> Savannah Page. Great to have you. Paul, you too. You're always a great co-host. >> (laughs) We co-hosted for three days. >> We've got a lot of love for each other here. And we have even more love for all of you tuning into our fabulous livestream from AWS reInvent Las Vegas, Nevada, with Paul Gillin. I'm Savannah Peterson. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in high tech coverage. (upbeat music)

>>And welcome to this special cube conversation. I'm John for a, your host of the cube. We're here in Palo Alto, California, and I'm here with a very special guest coming down from Seattle remotely into the cube studios is the leader at AWS Amazon web services, the vice president of database analytics and machine learning Swami. Great to see you cube alumni recently taking over the database business at AWS as a leader. Congratulations. And thanks for coming on the cube. >>Hey, my pleasure to be here, John, very excited to talk to you. >>Yeah. We've had many conversations on the cube and also in person and also online around all the major mega trends. You've had your hand in all the action, going back to your days when you were in school learning and, and writing papers. And 10 years ago, Amazon web services launched AWS dynamo, DB, fast, flexible, no SQL database that everyone loves today, which has inspired a generation of what I would call database distributing cloud scale, single digit millisecond performance at scale. And again, the key scale. And again, this is 10 years ago, so it seems like yesterday, but you guys are celebrating and your name was on the original paper with CTO Verner. Vogel's your celebrity. Congratulations. >>Thank you. Not sure about the celebrating part, but I'm very excited. At least I played a hand in building such an amazing technology that has enabled so many amazing customers along the way as well. So >>Trivia on the, on the paper as you were an intern at AWS, so you're getting your PhD. And then since, since rising through the ranks and involved in a lot of products over the years, and then leading the machine learning and AI, which is now changing the game at the industry level, but I got to ask you getting back to the story here. A lot of customers have built amazing things on top of dynamo DB, not to mention lots of other AWS and Amazon tech riding on it. Can you share some of the highlights that came out of the original paper? And so with some examples, because I think this is a point in time, 10 years ago, where you start to, so the KickUp of cloud scale, not just, just for developers and building startups, you're really starting to see the scale rise. >>Yeah, I actually, I mean, as you probably know, based on what he read to explain the Genesis of dynamo DB itself had to explain the Genesis of how Amazon got into building the original dynamo, right? And this was during the time when miner, I joined Ron esteem as an intern and, and Amazon was one of the pioneers in pushing the boundary of scale. And a year over year, our Q4 holiday season tends to be really, really bad for all the right reasons. We all want our holiday shopping done during that time. And you want to be able to scale your website, arters fulfillment centers, all of them at that time. And those are the times around 2005. And the answer is when people think our database, they think of a single database server that actually runs on a box and has a certain characteristics and does a scale and availability and whatnot. >>And it's usually relational. And then when we had a major disruption during Q4 that's when yeah, ask ourselves the question, why are we actually using a relational database for some of these things when they really didn't need the data model complexity of relational database. And normally I would say most companies where to actually ask an intern or a few engineers who are early in the career saying like, what the hell are you suggesting? Just go away. But Amazon being enabling Buddhists to build what they want. And they actually let us start reimagining what a database or our scale could look like. And that led to dynamo. And since she unstained mine, then we migrated from an traditional relational database stair this one for some of the amazon.com services. And then I moved on to actually start building some butts off our storage service and then our managed relational database service, I explicitly remember. >>And one of our customer advisory board, we're just the set off some of our leading customers who actually give us feedback on roadmap. Another son, Don, who's the CEO and chief geek of spunk bargain faker. And him actually looking at the Trinity me, I was starting in the corner and saying like you all, both tomorrow and why do I need to keep shotting my, my sequel database and reshooting assigned scaling. And this is the time when the state of the art in most databases were around. Like, you start sharding your relational database and constantly reshaping. And this is when most websites are starting to experience the kind of scale which we consider a normal month. During those times it was mostly, most companies used to have a single relational database backend and start scaling that way. And that conversation led entirely under duress, unaided read, lot of AWS leaders and myself saying like, Hey, what is a cloud database reimagined without the hampering SQL look like? And that led us to start building dynamo DB, but just a key value database at that time. Now we support document might've too, but that single digit millisecond latency at any scale imagine. So >>I think about that time at that time, 10 years ago, when you were having this conversation and I know the smug mug and I, he said, he's in totally geek and he's, he's good to point that out. You also have Netflix as customers too. I'd like to hear how that's evolved, but, but I think back at the time, if you look back then I got to ask you most people we've talked about this before. No one database rules, a world that's now standard people now don't see one database back then it was a one database kind of mindset back then. Yeah. And then you had that big data movement happening with Hadoop. You had the object store developing. So you're in you're you're circling around that area. What was it like then? I mean, take, take us through that because there was obvious visibility that, Hey, let's just store this. Now you see data lakes and that's all happening. But back then object store was kind of new. Yeah. >>Ah, it's a great question. Now, one of the things I realized early on, especially when I was working with binary, when you're saying amazon.com itself as an example, that the access patterns for various applications and Amazon, but let alone AWS customers tend to be very, very, very, some of them really just needed an object store. Some of them needed a relational database. Some of them really wanted a key value store within a fast latency. Some of them really needed a durable cash. And, but it so happens when you have a giant hammer. You use that for everything looks like a map, which is essentially the story at that time. And so everyone kept using the same database, irrespective of what the problem was because nobody else, I mean, thought about like, what else can we build that is better? So this let us do, literally I remember writing a paper with Bernard internally that is widely used in Amazon explaining what are all the menu of booklets that access. >>And then how do we go about actually solving for each of these things so that they can actually grow and innovate faster. And, and this was led to actually the Genesis of not only building IDs and so forth, but also dynamo and various other non-relational data. There's a still let alone not so storage access patterns and what not. So, and this was one of the big revelations he had just that there is not a single database that is going to meet the customer, needs us. The diversity of workloads in the internet is growing. And this was a key pivotal moment because with cloud now applications can scale very more instantly than before now. Building an application for Superbowl is very easier than before. That means that on, I mean, everybody is pushing the boundaries of what scale means, and they are expecting more from their obligations. That's when you need technologies like dynamo, DB, and that's exactly what dynamo already be set out to do. And since then, we are continuing to innovate on behalf of our customers and the purpose of the database story as well. And this concept has resonated well across the board. If you see that the database industry has also embraced this method, >>It's natural that you obviously evolved into the machine learning side of it because that's data is big part of that. And you see back then you, you bringing up kind of like flashes for me where it's like those, the data conversations back then and the data movement was just beginning. So the idea that you can have diversity in access methods of the kind of databases was a use case driven by the application, not so much database saying, this is how you have to work, that the script was flipped. It it's changed from infrastructure dictating to the applications, what to do. Now, the applications are going to the infrastructure and saying, give me what I want. I want to access something here in an office store, something here in no SQL that became the Genesis of infrastructure as code at a, at a global level. And so your paper kind of set the, the, the wave, the influence for this, no SQL did big data movement. It's created tons of value, maybe a third Mongo might've been influenced by this other people have been influenced. Can you share some stories of how people adopted the concept of dynamo DB and how that's changed in the industry and how has that helped the industry evolve? >>I mean, plus file data. Most share our experience of building and dynamo style data store. Very, it is a non-relational API and showing what are some of the experiences that the Venter in building such an paper and these set out early on itself, that it is should not be just a design paper, but it should be something that we shared our experiences. So even now, when I talked to my friends and colleagues and various other companies, one thing they always tell me is they appreciated the openness with which we were sharing. Some of the examples and learnings that we learned to not optimizing for percentile latencies, and what are some of the scalability challenges, how we solved and some of the techniques around things like sloppy Cora or various other stuff. We invented a lot of towns along the way too, but people really appreciated several of some of our findings and as talking about it. >>And since then I met so many other innovations are happening in the industry and the AWS, but also across the entire academia and industry in this space, the databases I've been going through what I call as a period of Renaissance, where one of the things, if you see our own arc, when Roger and I started on the database, front Disney started over the promo saying like, if you were to build a database where cloud is the new normal, this is again in 2008, we asked ourselves that question and what the belt that led us to start building things like dynamo, DB, RDS star. I know that alone, we reimagined data viruses with Redshift and several, and then several other databases like time stream for time series workloads started running Neptune for graph and whatnot. But at the moment we started actually asking that question and working backwards from customers. Then you will start being able to innovate accordingly. And this has worked really well. Then more than a hundred thousand AWS customers have chosen dynamo DB for mobile gaming tech IOT. Many of these are fast growing businesses, such as ledge, Darryl BNB, red fan, as soon as enterprises like Samsung Toyota, capital one and so far. So these are like really some meaningful clouds, let alone amazon.com. I run this. >>We have an internal customer is always good to have that entire inside customer. You know, I really find this a really profound use case because you're just talking, you know, in Amazonian terms, I'll just translate for the audience working backwards from the customer, which is the customer obsession you guys have. So here's, what's going on off the way I see it. You got dynamo, DB, paper, you and Verner, and the team Paul was a great as a great video on your blog posts that goes into the, to the talk he gave at around that time, which is fun to watch if you look back, but you have a radical enabler here, that's disrupting and changing S3 RDS, Aurora. These are game-changing concepts inside the, the landscape of AWS at the same time, you're working backwards from the customer. So the question I have for you as a leader and as a builder, how did you balance the working backwards from the customer while bringing something brand new and radical at that time to the market? >>Yeah, this is one of the S I mean hardest things to be, as leaders need to balance on. If you see many times, then we actually worked backwards from customers. The literal later translated this, literally do what customers are asking for, which is true nine out of 10 times, but there is one or a 10 times, you got to read between the lines on what they are asking. Because many times customers when are articulate that they need to go fast. If in the right way, they might say, Hey, I wish my heart storage goes faster, but they're not going to tell you they need a car, but you need to know and be able to translate and read between the lines we call it under the bucket of innovate on behalf of customers. And that is exactly the kind of a mantra we had when we were thinking about concepts like dynamo DB, because essentially at that time, almost everybody would, if I asked, they would just say, I wish a relational database could actually be able to scale from not just like a hundred gigabyte to one terabyte are, it can take up to like 2 million transactions, a second and so forth and still be cheap and made in reality as relational databases, the way they were engineered at that time, those are not going to meet the scale needs. >>So this is fair. We hunted read between the lines on what are some of the key Mustang needs from customers and then work backwards and then innovate on behalf of these workloads, be enabled by the sun oh four, which are some of the reasons that led to us launching some of the initial sets on dynamo on a single digit millisecond latency and seamless scale. At that time, databases didn't have the elasticity to go from like 10 requests, a second to like a hundred thousand or 1 million requests a second, and then scaled right back in an hour. So that was not possible. And we kind of enabled that. And that was an, a pretty big game changer that showed the elasticity of the cloud to a database. Well, >>Yeah, I think also just to, not to nerd out on this, but it enables a lot of other kind of cool scaled concepts, like queuing storage. It's all kind of together. This database piece of that you guys are solving. And again, props to you guys on the team. Congratulations. I have to ask, you know, more generally, how has your thinking changed since the paper? I'll see, you've got more experience under your belt. You don't yet have the gray hairs yet, but we'll see those soon come in, but you know, you're, you got a lot more experience. You're running teams, you're launching a lot of products. How has your thinking changed in the industry since the paper what's happening now? What's the big evolution. What are those new things now that are in the innovate on behalf of the customer? What's between the lines now, how do you see this happening? >>I mean, now since wanting dynamo via a victim, I had the opportunity to work on various problems in the big data space. There we've worked on some are fire things that you might be aware of in the analytics all the way from Redshift to quick side, too. Then I moved on to start some of our efforts, having built systems that enabled customer to store process and credit, and then analyze them. One of the realizations, I had this, the in around 2015 or 2016, I kinda had that machine learning was hitting a critical point where now it is ready for being scaled at option. Their cloud has basically enabled limitless compute and limitless storage, which are the factors that are holding back machine learning technology. Then I realized that now we have a unique opportunity to bring machine learning BI to everybody, not just folks with PhD in machine learning. >>And that's when I moved on from database and analytics areas, they started machine learning. We're just a descent area because machine learning is powered by data and then started building capabilities like SageMaker, which is our end to end ML platform to build, train and deploy them on models. And this, what does the leading enterprise platform by several gaggled users and then also a bunch of our AI services since then, I view the reason I'm giving all this historical context is one of the biggest realization I had early on itself. And 2016 as first machine learning is one of the most disruptive technologies. She will then country in our generation. This is right after cloud. I think these still are the most amazing combination that is going to revolutionize how we build applications and how we actually reason about that. Now, the second thing is that at the end of the day, when you look at the ANC and journey, it is not just about one database or one data Varroa. >>So one data lake product, or even 1:00 AM out platform. It is about the end to end journey where a customer is storing their order database. And then they are actually building a data lake that test customer history and order history. And they want to be able to personalize. And for their viewer experience are actually forecast what products to staff in their fulfillment center, but then all these things need to work and to handle. And that view is one of the big things that struck me for the past five years. And I've been on this journey in addition to building this Emma building blocks to connect the dots so that customers can go on this modern end to end data strategy as I call it, right. It goes beyond a single database technology or data technology, but putting now all of these end to end together so that customers don't end up spending six months connecting the dots, which has been the state of the down for the last couple of years. And we are bringing it down to matter of the Sundays. Now >>He's incredible Swami. Thank you so much for spending the time with us here in the, >>Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks again, Sean. Thanks for having me.

>>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS, and our community partners. >>Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the cubes. Live coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 I'm John Farrow, your hosts. We've got the cube virtual. We're not there in person with remote this year, and we're excited to cover three weeks of wall-to-wall coverage. It's virtual events, so they don't over three weeks. We're in week three, day two. Um, and if you're watching this live on the platform tomorrow, Thursday at two o'clock Andy Jassy, we'll be live here on the cube with one-on-one with me to address all the hard questions, but here we're doing a day two of week three analysis with Jeremy Burton industry legend entrepreneur. Now the CEO of observe Inc, um, formerly the CMO of Dell technologies before that EMC has done a variety of ventures, seeing many ways of innovation, friend of the cube. Jeremy, thank you for coming on. >>Yeah, my pleasure. Great. Always great to be on the cube. >>Uh, great to have you on in particularly because, um, yesterday Verner, Vogel's talked a lot about observability and I noticed you got your observed shirt on, uh, observe Inc is your company's name, which is one of the many, uh, hot startups around observability, where you're making a business out of basically what he talked about yesterday. Um, and today's keynote. You had the extended cloud, uh, edge applications. You had bill Vass who leads up both edge and quantum. And then you had Rudy Valdez who, who talked a lot about, uh, evolution of cloud architecture. And of course you finally had, um, David Richardson, who is the VP of serverless. So you got edge. Quantum serverless architecture speaks to the sea change, Jeremy, and you have a good read on these big waves. When you look at serverless and then quantum, you look at, uh, edge, which is data, and you look at, um, all this coming together and on their architecture, Verner's keynote yesterday kind of makes sense. It's a systems architecture and this new observability trend, isn't like a point product. It's a broader concepts. You have a complete rethinking of distributed computing in the cloud. This is kinda what this Amazon feels like. What's your, what's your take? >>Yeah, it's a, it's a good observation. You know, the, the, the, the sort of punchline is, is that people are building applications differently. Um, so the, the, the, the, the technologies that people are using to build apps are different, um, the way in which they build applications is different. Um, the way folks released codes into production is different, and it stands to reason. Therefore, you're going to need a different approach, uh, when you want to troubleshoot these applications. So, uh, when you find, uh, you know, w w what is show when you want to find out what issues customers are having? So what, what we fell a couple of three years ago when we started to observe was that, um, uh, a new approach was required, what you're going to need to monitor your application. And, you know, 2020 is not the same as what you needed in 2015 or 2010. >>And we felt very strongly that this new wave was, was going to be called observability. It, it brings a tear to my eye to hear a Verner, talk about it, because as much as we observe, you know, believe that we can do big things in future. It's the big vendors today that can move markets. And so the Amazon and vulnerable particular talk about observability, I think it lends more credence to the topic. Um, we think that organizations should have observability teams. We think there should be a head of observability. And again, you know, Amazon and Dawson this, uh, I think means that there's a much stronger chance that that's going to happen. And they're going to start, start to shine a light on, I think, a topic that almost everybody needs to pay attention to as they build their next generation of applications. >>When you guys, I know you guys are launched and you have couple of campaign customers now and growing rapidly, um, well-funded, um, uh, get some great investors have found that the investors of snowflake also, um, invested in you guys. So they see this cloud trend LC snowflake when public, and I know you're on the board of snowflake as well. So, uh, you, you, you know, a little bit about what's going on with Amazon and the opportunity when you look at observability, okay, you're building a business around it. And again, you think about head of observability. That's not like a small thing when you make, put someone in charge of something. So why do you say that? I mean, what, I mean, you know, some would say, you know, Hey, it's a feature, not a company. I mean, this is two mindsets that are different. How do you address that? >>Yeah, the, the, the, the thing I'd say is, look, the number one job in America is, um, is a software engineer is writing code. The number two job is fixing it. And so, you know, th th the job think about that for a second. The job of fixing our applications is almost as big as the job of creating our applications. Uh, something has to change, right? I know the job of fixing cars is not as big as the auto industry. Why, because over time that industry has matured and there are better tools to diagnose cars. Uh, and so they're, they, they become easy to fix over time. We've, we've not made that leap with our applications. Um, the tools that the engineering team use to debug and troubleshoot their application are often still very different to what the dev ops team is using, um, which is very different to what maybe the SRE team is using. >>And so it's a huge problem in our industry. Um, really not being able to diagnose troubleshoot issues when they arise. It, it costs the industry, a fortune, it costs, you know, sort of in indirect wasted productivity of development teams, but it also costs in terms of customer experience. Um, I mean, you know, you and I both know is, look, if we're, if we're having a bad experience with maybe a new service that we're trying out online, w w we're probably going to go somewhere else. And so the there's never been like a more important time for people to invest in observing the entire environment, the entire customer experience, not only will you have happier customers, you might actually reduce the costs and improve the productivity in your engineering team as well. So I feel like the opportunity there is, is, is, is, is vast. Um, I also think longer term, um, it doesn't just apply to troubleshooting distributed applications. >>Um, I think the security systems are very related to the way we build software. Um, I mean, I think in, in, in the news in recent days, we've, we've come attuned, uh, uh, to, to software defects, um, or malware in software causing breaches and government agencies. Um, Hey, that, that could be anybody's software right there. Yeah. And so security has got a role to play in observability and the customer experience. It doesn't stop when they have a bad experience on the website. What if they complain? You know, what if a help desk ticket get, how do you track that? >>Yeah, I'm going to, I have a lot of questions for chassis tomorrow. One of them I'm going to ask him, and I want to get your thoughts on it. Cause you brought that up. And I think it's a key point, you know, building applications and supporting them and fixing them. It kind of reminds me of the old adage of, um, you know, you know, you gotta run it running the operation, 70% of the budget using to running it. If you look at what's happening and if you talk to customers and this is what I'm going to ask chassis tomorrow, Verner actually talked about, I on day two operations in his keynote. Yeah. I mean, this is Amazon they're, they're targeting builders. And so I talked to, um, a few other entrepreneurs, um, who were growing companies and some CIA CIOs and CEOs and the basic enterprises. >>They don't want to be building things like they, that's not their DNA. They don't build things like, that's not what they do. I mean, first of all, I love the builder mentality and with Amazon. Um, but they might be at a time where there might not be enough builders, Jeremy right out there. So you've got skill shortages and then ultimately are enterprises really builders. Yeah. They'll build something, but then they just run it it's. So, so at what point do they stop building or they build their own thing in the cloud and then they got to run it. So I think Amazon is going to shift quickly to day two operations, get bill, bill, bill run, run, run. >>Yeah. That's a great topic of conversation. I think what you sort of poking out is, is sort of the maturation of this digital age in the state that we're at. Um, I mean, if you, if you go back, you, you know, to, you know, 10, 10, 20 years, um, I mean, look at the mid nineties, um, there were a lot of people building custom applications, right? I mean, you know, it was innovation, it was all about building custom apps. And I think that golden era of application development whack that now, um, and, and customers in order to get competitive advantage, they are building their own applications. When you talk about digital transformation, what does that mean? Well, it means, you know, often a traditional company building a new digital experience for services that they've potentially offered in a physical way, uh, in the past. So make no mistake, P people are builders or they are writing code, they are becoming digital. >>I think what you'll find at some point as the industry's mature, some of these digital experience is become packaged. And so you can buy those off the shelf. And so there's less building required. But I think as we sit today, um, that there's probably more code been written in anger by more organizations that at any point in the last 30 years. And, and I think this is another reason why observability is so important, um, as you're building that code and as you're developing that customer experience, you want to be able to understand, um, where the issues are and, and, um, uh, like along the way, you don't want to wait until there's a, a big customer disaster on the day of you roll that, something to production before you start investigate. And you want to do that as you go. >>Yeah. And I think that's a kill. I do agree with you, by the way. I think the, there is a builder mentality, but it's probably right. But remember those days back in it, if you want to put our, our time machine hat on and go through the time machine is, you know, that was during the mainframe client server transition. And it was called spaghetti code. You know, it's like the monoliths were built and then it had to be supported and that became legacy. So I kind of see that happening today, where, um, people are moving to the cloud, they are building, but at some point you got to build your thing in the cloud. If I'm a company. And again, this isn't some dots trying to connect in real time. I got serverless, which is totally cool. I'm gonna have quantum has headroom for compute. >>I'm going to have, um, kind of a S a SOA service oriented architecture with web services, with observability. I'm gonna have all these modern apps great that, or run them. And I'm now I'm gonna shift them. Multiple clouds is so, you know, maybe the private cloud waves coming back, you're seeing telco clouds. You start to see these new tier. I won't say tier two clouds, but I mean, people will build their own cloud environment. There's no doubt as going to the cloud. And Steve Malania, Aviatrix kind of made this point yesterday in his analysis where he's like, he thinks private cloud will be back. I was just, it'll just be public cloud. People will build their own clouds and run them. >>Yeah. I feel well, what happens over time is, is the, the sort of line above which you would add value rises. So I kind of feel like, look, cloud is just going to the infrastructure. We can debate, you know, private cloud, public cloud. Is it a public cloud, or is it a private cloud served up by a public cloud provider? My view is, is look, all of that is, is, um, just going to be commodity, right? Um, it's going to be served up for an ever decreasing cost. And so then it's incumbent on organizations to innovate above that line. And, you know, 20 years ago, you know, we, we built our own data centers. Um, and now increasingly that, that seeming like a crazy idea. Um, and you know, now you can get almost all of your infrastructure from the cloud. The great thing is, I mean, look at observe. >>We have no people running data center operations, none, right? We have no people building a database, non, you know, we use snowflake in the cloud. It runs on AWS. We have, we have one dev ops, uh, engineer. And so all the people in the company right now, we're focused on adding value, helping people understand and analyze data, uh, above that line. And we just pay for a service level and, and look, uh, as time goes by, there's going to be more and more services and that line's going to rise. And so, you know, what, what I care about and what I think a lot of CEOs care about is are most of my resources innovating above that sort of value creation line, um, because that's what people are going to pay for in our business. And I think that's, what's going to represent you, you know, sort of value add for you, you know, organizations big and small. >>Yeah. That's a good point. I want to shift to the next topic and then we'll get into some observability questions I have for you and update on your company. Um, complexity has been a big theme. That's come out of all the conversations with analysts that have come on the cube, as you hear it with Amazon, a lot of undifferentiated, heavy lifting, being extracted away to your point about value layers and competing on value. Amazon continues to do that all great stuff, but some are saying, and we had said on the cube, yes, two days ago you put them complexity behind the curtain. It's still complexity, right? So, so complexity with the edge is highlighted. Uh, even though they got green, uh, I, um, edge core Greengrass, which has core thing, IOT core, a lot of cool things happening, but it's still not yet super easy. So complexity tends to slow things down became striction, what's your view on this? Because taming, the complexity seems to be a post COVID pandemic mandate for cloud journeys. What's your thing. >>Yeah, I totally agree. I think, I think in certainly you look organizations that have been in existence, but you know, 30, 40 years, or maybe even 10 years look at there's an amount of technical debt and complexity that you build up over time. Um, but even newer companies, um, the way that people are building modern distributed applications and in some respects is, is more complex than in days gone by, you know, microservices. Um, some of which maybe you own some of which maybe you don't, and what you've gotta be able to do is, is see the big picture, you know, w w when, when there's something in my code, but then when am I making a call out to maybe a third party microservice and, and that microservices bailing out on me, like people have got to see the big picture. And I think what hasn't been available as people have changed the architecture and their applications, there hasn't been an equivalent set of innovation or evolution in the tools that they use to manage that environment. And so you, you, you, you've got this sort of dichotomy of, uh, a better way for software developers to write code and deploy it into production microservices. But at the same time, you don't have good information and good tools to make sense of that complexity. >>That's great stuff. Jeremy Burton is here. He's the CEO of observe Inc cube, alumni, VIP cube alumni, by the way, has been on the cube every year, since the Q has been around 2010, when he took the new job as the CMO of EMC prior to being bought by Dell, Jeremy, you're a legend in the industry, certainly on as an executive and a marketer. And as an entrepreneur, um, I gotta ask you observe Inc, your company now, um, you're right in the middle of all this, you, you got a big bet going on. Could you share, in your opinion, your words, what is the big bet that you're making with observing? Uh, what are you betting on? How do you see the preferred future unfolding and where are you guys going to capture that value? >>Yes, I I'll big bat. Hey, uh, really is to take a new approach, um, in, in, in, in terms of enabling people to observe their systems, that the term observability actually goes back, uh, to a guy in control systems theory in the sixties. And then it's got quite a simple definition, which is, you know, being able to determine the, uh, I've been able to diagnose a system by the telemetry data that it emits. So let's look at the external outputs. And then based on that, can I determine the internal state of the application? And so from the get-go, we felt like observability was not about building another tool, right? We're not, you know, it's not about building another monitoring tool, a logging tool. Um, it's about analyzing data. And I, I was struck many years ago. Uh, I spent a bit of time with, with Andy McAfee, uh, from the sea sail lab at MIT. >>And he made a statement that I thought at the time was quite profound, which he said, look, everything's a matter of data. If you have enough data, you can solve any problem. And that stuck with me for a long time. And, um, you know, observe really what we do is we ingest vast quantities of telemetry data. We treat everything as events and we try and make sense of it. And the economics of the infrastructure now is such, that is you truly can ingest all the Alltel telemetry data and it's affordable, right? I mean, one of the wonderful things that Amazon has done is they've brought you, you know, very cheap, affordable storage. You can ingest all your data and keep it forever. Um, but, but now can you make sense of it? Well, you know, compute is pretty cheap these days and you've got amazing processing engines like snowflake. >>And so I was sense was that if we could allow folks to ingest all of this telemetry data process, that data and help people easily analyze that data, then they could find almost any problem that existed, uh, in their applications or in their infrastructure. So we really set out to create a data company, which I think is fundamentally different to, to really what everybody else is doing. And today we're troubleshooting distributed applications, but I think in future, we, my hope is that we can, we can help people analyze almost anything around their applications or infrastructure. >>And what's the use case problem statement that you're entering the market on? Is it just making sure microservices can be deployed as a Kubernetes? Is it managing containers? Is there a specific, um, customer adoption use case that you're focused on right now? >>Yeah, we've tried to target our ideal customer if you like has been the three or 4,000, uh, uh, SAS companies. Uh, we're, we're really focused on the U S right now, but three to 5,000 SAS companies, um, predominantly, uh, obviously running on AWS often, uh, Kubernetes infrastructure, but, you know, people who, uh, having a hard time, uh, understanding the complexity of the application that they've created, and they're having a hard time understanding, uh, the experience that their customers are having and tracking that back to root cause. So, you know, really helping those SAS companies troubleshoot their applications and having a better customer experience that's where the early customers are. And if we can do a good job in that area, I think we can, you know, over time, you know, start to take on some of the bigger companies and maybe some of the more established companies that are moving in this, this digital direction. >>Jeremy, thanks for sharing that. And I got one last set of questions for you around the industry, but before I get there, give a quick plug for observe. What are you guys looking to do hire, I mean, give a quick, uh, a PSA on what's going on with observed. >>Yeah, so we're, uh, the company is now what a rough and tough. About three years old, we got about 40 people. Uh we're well-funded by sort of Hill ventures. Uh, they were the original investors in, in snowflake. Um, and, um, yeah, I mean, we we've, we've well, more than doubled in size since the COVID lockdown began. We had about 15 people when that began. We've got almost 40 now. Um, and I would anticipate in the next year we're, we're probably going to double in size again, but, um, yeah, really the core focus in the company is, is understanding and analyzing vast quantities of data. And so anybody who is interested in, uh, that space look us up >>Mainly any areas, obviously engineering and the other areas okay. >>Near in all over. I mean, we, you know, w w w as you'll see, if you go to observing.com, we've got a pretty slick front end. Uh, we invested very early on in design and UX design. So we believe that you are, can be a differentiator. So we've got some amazing engineers on the front end. Uh, so going to can always do with the help there, but obviously, um, you know, there's a data processing platform here as well. Um, we, uh, we do run on top of snowflake. We, we do have a number of folks here who are very familiar, uh, you know, with the snowflake database and, and how to write efficiency equals. So, so front and backend. Um, we very soon, I think we'll be starting to expand the sales team. Um, we're really starting to get our initial set of customers and the feedback loop rule in rolling into engineering. And my hope would be, you know, probably early part of next year, we re we really start to nail the product market fit. Um, and we've got a huge release coming in the early part of next year where that the metrics and alerting functionality will be in the product. So, yeah, it's, it's sort of all systems go right now. >>Congratulations. Love to see the entrepreneurial journey. We'll keep an eye out for you and you're in a hot space. So we'll be riding, you'll be riding that wave, uh, question for you on the, um, just kind of the industry, uh, you're in the heart of Silicon Valley. Like I am honestly, I'm fellow Alto, you're up in the Hillsborough area. Um, I think you're in Hillsborough, right? That's where you, where you live. Um, San Francisco, the Valley, the pandemic pretty hard hit right now. People are sheltering in place, but still a lot of activity. Um, what are you hearing in, um, in, in the VC circles, startup circles, as everyone looks at coming out of the pandemic and you look at Amazon and you look at what snowflake has done. I mean, snowflake was built on top of Amazon competing against Redshift. Um, okay. They were hugely successful at doing that. So there's kind of this new playbook emerging. What are, what are people talking about? What's the scuttlebutt. >>Yeah. I mean, clearly TAC has done very well throughout what has been, you know, like just a terrible environment. Um, I think both kind of socially and economically, and I think what's going on in the stock market right now is probably not reflective of the, of the economic situation. And I think a lot of the indices are dominated by tech companies. So you, if you're not careful, you can get a little bit of a false read. Um, but look, what is undisputed is, is that the world is going to become more digital, more tech centric than, than less. Um, so I think there is a very, very bright future, you know, for tech, um, that there is certainly plenty of VC money, um, available. Um, you know, that is not really changed materially in the last year. Um, so if you have a good idea, if you're on one of these major trends, I think that there is a very good chance that you can get the company funded. >>Um, and you know, our, our expectation is that, you know, next year, obviously industries are going to return to work that have been dominant maybe for the last six, nine months. And so some parts of the economy should pick up again, but I would also tell you, I think certain, uh, sort of habits are not going to die. I mean, I think more things are going to be done online and we've gotten used to that way of working and, and you know, what, not, some of it is measurable. I don't know about cocktails over zoom, but working with customers, um, in some respects is easier because they're not traveling, we're not traveling. So we both have more time. Uh, it's sometimes easy to get meetings with people that you would never get. Now. Now, can you do an efficient sales process, education proof of concept? You know, those processes maybe have to grow up a little bit to be taken online, but I think the certain parts of the last, maybe six to nine months that we don't want to throw away and go back to the way we were doing it, because I think, you know, maybe this way of doing it is, is more efficient. >>What do you think about the, uh, entrepreneurial journeys out there? Obviously, um, Amazon we're here covering re-invent is really kind of, you know, building a massive compute engine. They've got higher level services and, you know, I've been speculating for years. I think snowflake is the first kind of big sign. That points to kind of what I said five years ago, which is there's going to be an opportunity for these other clouds as specialty clouds. I called them might be the wrong word, but snowflake basically built on top of Amazon, you know, most valuable company ever on wall street, uh, IPO on someone else's cloud. So is that a playbook? I mean, is that a move? I mean, this is kind of like a new thing. >>Yeah. I mean, that's, I mean, I, I feel like on databases, I've got a lot of history on management, Oracle almost 10 years. And you know, what snowflake does they did was they, they rearchitected the database explicitly for the cloud. I mean, you can run Oracle on the cloud, but, but it, but it doesn't do things the way that snowflake does it. Right. I mean, snowflake uses commodity storage. It uses S3 it's elastic. And so when you're not using it, you're not paying it. And these things sound very simple and very obvious now, which is I think what, what, what the genius of the founders, you know, Ben Warren and Tre, uh, work, and, and I think there will be other costs, you know, categories of infrastructure that will get rearchitected and reinvented for the cloud. And, you know, I've got equally big opportunities. Um, and so, yeah, I mean, I think the model, I believe firmly that the model is if you're a startup, you don't need to waste a lot of time, like reinventing the wheel on data center, infrastructure and databases, and a lot of the services that you would use to construct an application. >>You, you, you can start, you know, if, if the building that you're trying to build is like 12 floors, you can start at the eighth or ninth floor. Um, you know, I've, I've got like what three or 400 quality engineers at snowflake that are building our database. I don't, I don't need to do that. I can just piggyback on top of what they've done and add value. And, you know, the, the, the beautiful thing, you know, now, if you're a business out there thinking of, of, of, of becoming digital and reinventing yourself, or you're a startup just getting going, there's a lot of stuff you just don't have to build anymore. You just don't even have to think about it. >>Yeah. This is the new program of bull internet. It's internet, truly 2.0 or 3.0, whatever 4.0, a complete reset of online. And I think the pandemic, as you pointed out on many cube interviews and Andy Jassy send his keynote is on full display right now. And I think the smart money and smart entrepreneurs are going to see the opportunities. Okay. >>Yeah. It comes back to ideas and a great, I mean, I've always been a product person. Um, but look at great idea, a great product idea and a great product idea that, that capitalizes on the big trends in the industry. I think there's always going to be funding for those kinds of things. I don't know a lot about the consumer world I've always worked in, in B2B, but, um, you know, the kind of things that you're going to be able to do in future. I mean, think about it. If storage is essentially free and compute is essentially free. Just imagine what you could do, right. Jeremy, >>This is the new consumer. Get out. Let's understand that. Finally, B2B is the new consumer enterprise is hot. I was, again, it was riffing on this all week. All the things going on in enterprise is complex is now the new consumers now all connected. It's all one thing. The consumerization of it, the condition of computing has happened. It's going on. So you're a leader. Thank you for coming on. Great to see you as always, um, say hi to your family and stay safe. >>Yeah, you too. Thanks for the invite. Always, always a pleasure. >>Jeremy Burton breaking down the analysis of day two of week three of re-invent coverage. I'm John furry with the cube virtual. We're not in person anymore. Virtualization has allowed us to do more interviews over 110 interviews so far for re-invent and tomorrow, Thursday at two o'clock, Andy Jassy will spend 30 minutes with me here on the cube, looking back at re-invent the highs, the lows, and what's next for Amazon web services. I'm chef Aria. Thanks for watching.

>>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS, and our community partners. >>Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the cubes. Virtual coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 it's virtual this year because of the pandemic. We're not there in person and in real life, we're remote. I'm John for a year hosting the cube or the cube virtual. Um, as we continue to cover the three weeks of AWS reinvent and analyze the keynotes, we bring it in, uh, from our Cuban alumni, uh, network experts. And we have here great guest, Steve Malaney, CEO of Ava Trex, industry executive legend, former entrepreneur had done startups, um, been very, very successful with luminary and Silicon Valley, um, Palo Alto networks and the Sierra Cisco, I me, all the companies you've worked for. Um, Steve, great to see you again. >>Oh yeah. Hey awesome. Even if it's just virtual, John's great to be back in the cube. >>Okay, Steve, what's up? Am I muted? I got you. Okay. >>Gotcha. Oh, okay. I just said it's great. They're great to be back in the cube. >>I had to shut up my volume, got to love live cube TV. Um, I wanted to bring you on, because one, we've been talking with you guys and your company that you're now heading. You came off the board to take the helm of Ava tricks. You really saw the vision early on before the pandemic. We were actually, we did a hybrid event with you guys, a digital hybrid and your vision of multi-cloud and hybrid was pretty much in line with what Andy Jassy. And Amazon's now rolling out, except they're not calling it. Multi-cloud, they're just saying hybrid. But when you factor in the edge, the complexity there, you're really talking multiple environments. So I want to get your take, as you look at what Amazon has done in their announcements, they're continuing to power long. What's your analysis. What's your industry take? >>Yeah, I, I think it's, uh, you know, I think it's great. I think, you know, when we were a year ago, it was just a little over a year ago, we were at a multi-cloud conference and I think people kind of thought, wow, is multicloud something that the vendors are wanting to happen because they don't want to be killed by AWS. And you know, I mean, I saw this two years ago, I call it the Cambridge and explosion to cloud where every enterprise to we are now going to move to cloud. And they had been talking about it for six or seven years, but they didn't really mean it. And two years ago I saw they meant it and I knew what was going to happen. It was going to go multi-cloud they we're going to care about day two operations, visibility, control, security, all the things that enterprises care about. And I think, um, you know, what we've seen really over the last year is AWS and all the other cloud providers recognizing this, that the world is going multicloud. Um, and day two operations matter. You've gotta be able to operationalize this and enterprises. Can't just, it's not just about wiring it and building it up. You got do, you can operate it. And so that's, I think the thing that's really interesting is the maturity of the messaging. I would say from AWS to recognize, um, where enterprises are in their journey. >>You know, Steve, I want to just reflect on something. When I was 19 years old in my first job, uh, in New York, it was on a prime mini computer, my first exposure to the enterprise office and then went and worked for IBM and HP and others. I've been in the, around the enterprise. Let me just go back 10 years in Silicon Valley, you could literally count on one or two hands. The number of enterprise experts out there that you knew of that were out circulating that weren't retired. Um, because it went through this kind of commodity stage of outsource everything kind of down to the bone, you know, just keeping the lights on there. Wasn't really a lot of innovation in the enterprise. Now it's the hottest thing in the world. And you, and you look at what's happening with cloud. They're redefining the enterprise in Andy Jassy said to me, and I'm going to interview him, uh, later this week. And you know, he said, we're done with eyes and pads. We checked that's anything. I say anyone, but he's kind of implying that we did. I, as in pass, we're targeting global it. >>Yeah. Well, you know, >>Now enterprise is super hot and you know, it's, it's a whole nother ball game to restructuring on G >>Yeah, I mean, so I, uh, the AWS is marketing slogan, Mark. My words I'll bet you a hundred bucks within the next year is going to change. They are not going to say go build anymore. Right? Because that's what they're going to say. Go consume because no enterprise wants to build and Oh, by the way, here's the other thing that they're now also figuring out. Cause I know Andy Jassy analysis, there's a skills shortage of cloud, so they don't have the skills at the aptitude, but there's also a people shortage. It's not just the skills, it's the amount of people. They don't have the ability to go deploy this. And they're going to, you're going to need solutions like ABA tricks, abstract the way a lot of the complexities of the underlying clouds and deliver this architecture for people to be able to actually deploy. >>Where is the skill gaps in your opinion, where do you see them? >>You know, I was just talking to a customer yesterday and he said most of my, most of my team are CLI jockeys. And so for networking, that means the CLI the command line interface that a human manipulates to control the Cisco router. That's the old operational model. The model of this, these days are Terraform. You're going to infrastructure is code everything. You need scriptures. You need, you need developers that are going to be driving your infrastructure. And, and, but I can't, I can't fire all these people that I've had in my enterprise for the last 30 years. I got to bring them along. I got to bring them along and the tools and the platforms to be able to go, to go do that. >>Andy's argument and Amazon's position is we eliminate the undifferentiated heavy lifting and we have all this training and content to bring everyone along. Okay. By that. >>Well, I mean, here's, here's the thing that I think AWS and all the, all the cloud providers are figuring out is the enterprise is a different beast. You know, when you go to a company as AWS and say, Hey, you can get it as long as it's any color you want, as long as it's black. And so guess what, I'm a service. And the beautiful thing is you don't need to know anything about how we do anything and just trust me, it's all going to work that does not go over well with an enterprise because they say, I'm the guy that needs to know I will get fired. If this infrastructure goes down, you know, you saw us East one go down two weeks ago, Google had a outage to two days ago or whatever it was, shit happens. I don't know if I can say that on the cube. >>We're not going to actually see regulated at this point, but who's going to know. >>Um, and you know what? I've got to have that visibility in controls and enterprise, and I need the granular controls and the visibility to troubleshoot and the security controls and the performance controls that I used to have on prem, because I'm a regulated enterprise. I need that visibility and control. And the cloud providers just say, look, I deliver a service and I deliver it to everybody. And it's the same service. And you don't need to know that does not fly with the >>Well, certainly you're seeing more regulated industries. It used to be just public sector. I just talked with Teresa Carlson. She now took over all the industries. So FinTech is regulated. Energy is regulated. Telecom's regulated. The only thing that's not regulated is a VC and startup sectors, right? So there's a >>Well, and, and, and every, every good CIO of an enterprise knows nothing good comes from your, from your infrastructure that gets outsourced. We tried that it doesn't work. Now, maybe in 20 years, I can outsource my infrastructure if I'm the CIO of a major enterprise corporation. But right now I am not outsourcing that I have to have control. Now, am I going to leverage services and basic infrastructure from the cloud providers? Absolutely. I'm not going to build it on my own data centers. That world is over, but what I'm going to maintain is the visibility and control. >>Yeah. And that's what we heard from Verner. Vogel's around observability systems, thinking control versus observability, um, evolvable systems, things like reasoning, um, you know, these are, these are innovations, right? So, so let's get back to that builders thing, because you mentioned that earlier, I think there might be an opportunity. And I think this is where I think Jassy will either look brilliant or it might not pan out. So go big or go home moment. Can Amazon create a market for companies to say, instead of bringing along everybody, I'm going to bring along some people and hire more builders because there's rewards as spoils to be had for those builders. At this point in time, given the pandemic, it's kind of put everything on full display in terms of what to do. What's your thoughts on that? >>I think, I think outside in meaning I, I look at the customer and I, and I sit at the same side of the table as a customer. I think, what did they want? And every enterprise customer right now is building out their PRI it's just like in 1992, when they built out their private infrastructures, global infrastructure, and they did it with on-prem and data centers. I bought my stories, my compute, my networking, my MPLS, and I built my infrastructure. And it was my infrastructure. They're doing the same thing. It's just, they're architecting on top of cloud and they're doing it in a multi-cloud world because they're not going to be locked in to just one cloud. And they're going to have some applications that run better on GCP. Some have better in AWS and some on Oracle, and all of our customers are doing this. And what they want though, is a common infrastructure. That's their architecture and their infrastructure, not an AWS architecture and a Google architecture and an Azure architecture. What architecture, abstracted away above the clouds. That's my architecture. And it's common for my global network that that's what enterprises want to do. And I think each of the individual clouds are going to have to understand that they are a piece of the puzzle. They are not the puzzle. And I think you're going to have to come to that realization. >>I appreciate your expertise and insight into the commentary real quick, last 30 seconds, give a quick plug for Ava tricks. What are you guys doing? What's new cause the quick update. >>I mean, it's, it's, it's crazy just since, uh, I've been the CEO for two years and you know, the, the logos of large enterprise that we're getting right now. My, my Cambrian explosion that I saw two years ago is real, um, more executing on that strategy. It's a, who's who of logos right now. We've got 450 customers now we're, uh, exploding and more importantly, enterprises are now getting that deployment phase. They have, they're done with the architecture phase of, Hey, let me check this whole thing out in cloud. And now they're pushing the button and they're, they're accelerating, which my guess is it's not a coincidence that AWS is now talking about operations. And what Aviatrix does is, is, is, does gives that visibility and control cloud networking, but in a very cloud native way with Terraform simplicity, agility, because agility is part of mission critical infrastructure. Now can't be like it was in 1994 with a Cisco infrastructure where it said, what year do you want your, your, your infrastructure, Mr. Customer? >>Great. And the biggest thing people should pay attention to this year, uh, for around the enterprise dynamics with cloud and scale what's what should people be watching >>In your opinion? Just the continued movement of big enterprises, uh, all into cloud. The center of gravity is now into cloud and, uh, they're going to be completely running away from everything on prem. >>All right. Steven Landy, CEO of VBA tricks, a proven success entrepreneur CEO, back in the two years of the helm, the VBA tricks. Great to see you. I wish we were in person. One of our last events was your altitude event. It's on YouTube. If anyone was interested in watching, we had a great time. Steve, thank you so much for your candid commentary. Yeah. Thanks, John. Okay. I'm Jennifer with the cube. You're watching the cube virtual here on the cube. Thanks for watching..

>>LA from Las Vegas. It's the cube covering AWS reinvent 2019 brought to you by Amazon web services and along with its ecosystem partners. >>Hello everyone. Welcome back to the cubes. Day three coverage of ADAS reinvent in Las Vegas. It's the cubes coverage. Want to thank Intel for being the headline sponsor for the cube two sets. Without Intel, we wouldn't make it happen. We're here extracting the signal from the noise as usual. Wall-to-wall SiliconANGLE the cube coverage. I'm John Feria with student men and men doing a keynote analysis from Verner Vogel. Stu, you know Vernor's, they always, they always got the disc, the format jazzy kicks it off. You get the partner thing on day two and then they say Verner flask could nerd out on all the good stuff. Uh, containers. Coobernetti's all under the hood stuff. So let's jump in a keynote analysis. What's your take? What's Verner's posture this year? What's the vibe? What's the overall theme of the keynote? >>Well, well, first of all, John, to answer the question that everybody asks when Werner takes the stage, this year's t-shirt was posse. So Verner usually either has a Seattle band or it's usually a Dutch DJ, something like that. So he always delivers it. The geek crowd there. And really after seeing it of sitting through Werner's keynote, I think everybody walks out with AWS certification because architecturally we dig into all these environments. So right. You mentioned they started out with the master class on how Amazon built their hypervisor. Super important. Nitro underneath is the secret sauce. When they bought Annapurna labs, we knew that those chips would be super important going forward. But this is what is going to be the driver for outposts. It is the outpost is the building block for many of the other services announced this week. And absolutely the number one thing I'm hearing in the ecosystems around outpost but far gate and firecracker micro databases and managing containers. >>Um, they had some enterprises up on stage talking about transformation, picking up on the themes that Andy started with his three hour keynote just yesterday. But um, it's a lighter on the news. One of the bigger things out there is we will poke Amazon about how open and transparent they are. About what they're doing. And one of the things they announced was the Amazon builders library. So it's not just getting up on stage and saying, Hey, we've got really smart people and we architected these things and you need to use all of our tools, but Hey, this is how we do things. Reminded me a little bit of a, you know, just echoes of what I heard from get lab, who of course is fully open source, fully transparent, but you know, Amazon making progress. It's Adrian Cockcroft and that team has moved on open source, the container group. >>I had a great interview yesterday with Deepak saying, and Abby fuller, the container group actually has a roadmap up on containers. They're so sharing a lot of deep knowledge and good customers talk about how they're taking advantage, transforming their business. In serverless, I mean, John, coming out of Andy's keynote, I was like, there wasn't a lot of security and there wasn't a lot of serverless. And while serverless has been something that we know is transforming Amazon underneath the covers, we finally got to hear a little bit more about not just Lambda but yes, Lambda, but the rest of it as to how serverless is transforming underneath. >>You know ain't Jessie's got along three hour keynote, 30 announcements, so he has to cut save some minutes there. So for Verner we were expecting to go in a little bit more deeper dive on this transformational architecture. What did you learn about what they're proposing, what they're saying or continuing to say around how enterprises should be reborn in the cloud? Because that's the conversation here and again, we are, the memes that are developing are take the T out of cloud native. It's cloud naive. If you're not doing it right, you're going to be pretty naive. And then reborn in the cloud is the theme. So cloud native, born in the cloud, that's proven. Reborn in the cloud is kind of the theme we're hearing. Did he show anything? Did he talk about what that architecture is for transformation? Right. >>Did actually, it was funny. I'm in a watching the social stream. While things are going on. There was actually a cube alumni that I follow that we've interviewed at this show and he's like, if we've heard one of these journeys to you know, transformation, haven't we heard them all and I said, you know, while the high level message may be similar is I'm going to transfer math transform, I'm going to use data. When you looked at what they were doing, and this is a significant, you know, Vanguard, you know the financial institutions, Dave Volante commenting that you know the big banks, John, we know Goldman Sachs, we know JP Morgan, these banks that they have huge it budgets and very smart staffs there. They years ago would have said, Oh we don't need to use those services. We'll do what ourselves. Well Vanguard talking about how they're transforming rearchitecting my trip services. >>I love your term being reborn cloud native because that is the architecture. Are you cloud native or I used to call it you've kind of cloud native or kinda you know a little bit fo a cloud. Naive is a great term too. So been digging in and it is resonating is to look, transformation is art. This is not trying to move the organizational faster than it will naturally happen is painful. There's skillsets, there's those organizational pieces. There are politics inside the company that can slow you down in the enterprise is not known for speed. The enterprises that will continue to exist going forward better have taken this methodology. They need to be more agile and move. >>Well the thing about the cloud net naive thing that I like and first of all I agree with reborn in the cloud. We coined the term in the queue but um, that's kinda got this born again kind of vibe to it, which I think is what they're trying to say. But the cloud naive is, is some of the conversations we're hearing in the community and the customer base of these clouds, which is there are, and Jesse said it is Kino. There are now two types of developers and customers, the ones that want the low level building blocks and ones who want a more custom or solution oriented packages. So if you look at Microsoft Azure and Oracle of the clouds, they're trying to appeal to the folks that are classic it. Some are saying that that's a naive approach because it's a false sense of cloud, false sense of security. >>They got a little cloud. Is it really true? Cloud is, it's really true. Cloud native. So it's an interesting confluence between what true cloud is from a cloud native standpoint and yet all the big success stories are transformations not transitions. And so to me, I'm watching this it market, which is going to have trillions of dollars in, are they just transitioning? I old it with a new coat of paint or is it truly a skill, a truly an architectural transformation and does it impact the business model? That to me is the question. What's your reaction to that? >>Yeah, so John, I think actually the best example of that cloud native architecture is the thing we're actually all talking about this week, but is misunderstood. AWS outpost was announced last year. It is GA with the AWS native services this year. First, the VMware version is going to come out early in 2020 but here's why I think it is super exciting but misunderstood. When Microsoft did Azure stack, they said, we're going to give you an availability zone basically in your data center. It wasn't giving you, it was trying to extend the operational model, but it was a different stack. It was different hardware. They had to put these things together and really it's been a failure. The architectural design point of outpost is different. It is the same stack. It is an extension of your availability zone, so don't think of it of I've got the cloud in my data center. >>It's no, no, no. What I need for low latency and locality, it's here, but starting off there is no S3 in it because we were like, wait, what do you mean there's no S3 in it? I want to do all these services and everything. Oh yeah. Your S three bucket is in your local AC, so why would you say it's sharing? If you are creating data and doing data, of course I want it in my S three bucket. You know that, that that makes that no, they're going to add us three next year, but they are going to be very careful about what surfaces do and don't go on. This is not, Oh Amazon announces lots of things. Of course it's on outpost. It has the security, it has the operational model. It fits into the whole framework. It can be disconnected song, but it is very different. >>I actually think it's a little bit of a disservice. You can actually go see the rack. I took a selfie with it and put it out on Twitter and it's cool gear. We all love to, you know, see the rack and see the cables and things like that. But you know, my recommendation to Amazon would be just put a black curtain around it because pay no attention to what's here. Amazon manages it for you and yes, it's Amazon gear with the nitro chip underneath there. So customers should not have to think about it. It's just when they're doing that architecture, which from an application standpoint, it's a hybrid architecture. John, some services stay more local because of latency, but others it's that transformation. And it's moving the cloud, the edge, my data center things are much more mobile. Can you to change and move over? >>Well this spring you mentioned hybrid. I think to me the outpost announcement in terms of unpacking that is all about validation of hybrid. You know, VMware's got a smile on their face. Sanjay Poonen came in because you know Gelson you're kind of was pitching hybrid, you know, we were challenging him and then, but truly this means cloud operations has come. This is now very clear. There's no debate and this is what multi-cloud ultimately will look like. But hybrid cloud and public cloud is now the architecture of the of it. There's no debate because outpost is absolute verification that the cloud operating model with the cloud as a center of gravity for all the reasons scale, lower costs management, but moving the cloud operations on premises or the edge proves hybrid is here to stay. And that's where the money is. >>So John, there's a small nuance I'll say there because hybrid, we often think of public and private as equal. The Amazon positioning is it's outpost. It's an extension of what we're doing. The public cloud is the main piece, the edge and the outposts are just extensions where we're reaching out as opposed to if I look at, you know what VMware's doing, I've got my data center footprint. You look at the HCI solution out there. Outpost is not an HCI competitor and people looking at this misunderstand the fundamental architecture in there. Absolutely. Hybrid is real. Edge is important. Amazon is extending their reach, but all I'm saying is that nuance is still, Amazon has matured their thinking on hybrid or even multi-cloud. When you talk to Andy, he actually would talk about multi-cloud, but still at the center of gravity is the public cloud and the Amazon services. It's not saying that, Oh yeah, like you know, let's wrap arounds around all of your existing, >>well, the reason why I liked the cloud naive, take the T out of cloud native and cloud naive is because there is a lot of negativity around what cloud actually is about. I forget outpost cloud itself, and if you look at like Microsoft for instance, love Microsoft, I think they do an amazing work. They're catching up as fast as they can, but, and they play the car. Well we are large scale too, but the difference between Amazon and Microsoft Azure is very clear. Microsoft's had these data centers for MSN, I. E. browsers, global infrastructure around the world for themselves and literally overnight they have to serve other people. And if you look at Gardner's results, their downtime has been pretty much at an all time high. So what you're seeing is the inefficiencies and the district is a scale for Microsoft trying to copy Amazon because they now have to serve millions of customers anywhere. This is what Jessie was telling me in my one-on-one, which is there's no compression algorithm for experience. What he's basically saying is when you try to take shortcuts, there's diseconomies of scale. Amazon's got years of economies of scale, they're launching new services. So Jesse's bet is to make the capabilities. The problem is Microsoft Salesforce do is out there and Amos can't compete with, they're not present and they're going into their customers think we got you covered. And frankly that's working like real well. >>Yeah. So, so, so John, we had the cube at Microsoft ignite. I've done that show for the last few years. And my takeaway at Microsoft this year was they build bridges. If you are, you know, mostly legacy, you know, everything in my data center versus cloud native, I'm going to build your bridge. They have five different developer groups to work with you where you are and they'll go there. Amazon is a little bit more aggressive with cloud native transformation, you know, you need to change your mindset. So Microsoft's a little bit more moderate and it is safer for companies to just say, well, I trust Microsoft and I've worked with Microsoft and I've got an enterprise license agreement, so I'll slowly make change. But here's the challenge, Don. We know if you really want to change your business, you can't get there incrementally. Transformation's important for innovation. So the battle is amazing. You can't be wrong for betting on either Microsoft or Amazon these days. Architecturally, I think Amazon has clear the broadest and deepest out there. They keep proving some of their environments and it has, >>well the economies of scale versus diseconomies scale discussion is huge because ultimately if Microsoft stays on that path of just, you know, we got a two and they continue down that path, they could be on the wrong side of the history. And I'll tell you why I see that and why I'm evaluating Microsoft one, they have the data center. So can they reach tool fast enough? Can they, can they eliminate that technical debt because ultimately they're, they're making a bet. And the true bet is if they become just an it transition, they in my opinion, will, will lose in the long run. Microsoft's going all in on, Nope, we're not the old guard. We're the new guard. So there's an interesting line being formed too. And if Microsoft doesn't get cloud native and doesn't bring true scale, true reliability at the capabilities of Amazon, then they're just going to be just another it solution. And they could, that could fall right on there, right on their face on that. >>And John, when we first came to this show in 2013 it was very developer centric and could Amazon be successful in wooing the enterprise? You look around this show, the answer was a resounding yes. Amazon is there. They have not lost the developers. They're doing the enterprise. When you talk to Andy, you talked about the bottoms up and the top down leadership and working there and across the board as opposed to Google. Google has been trying and not making great progress moving to the enterprise and that has been challenging. >>Oh, I've got to tell you this too. Last night I was out and I got some really good information on jet eye and I was networking around and kind of going in Cognito mode and doing the normal and I found someone who was sharing some really critical information around Jedi. Here's what I learned around this is around Microsoft, Microsoft, one that Jed ideal without the capabilities to deliver on the contract. This was a direct quote from someone inside the DOD and inside the intelligence community who I got some clear information and I said to him, I go, how's that possible? He says, Microsoft one on the fact that they say they could do it. They have not yet proven any capabilities for Jedi. And he even said quote, they don't even have the data centers to support the deal. So here you have the dynamic we save, we can do it. Amazon is doing it. This is ultimately the true test of cloud naive versus cloud native. Ask the clouds, show me the proof, John, you could do it and I'll go with, >>you've done great reporting on the jet. I, it has been a bit of a train wreck to watch what's going on in the industry with that because we know, uh, Microsoft needs to get a certain certification. They've got less than a year. The clock is ticking to be able to support some of those environments. Amazon could support that today. So we knew when this started, this was Amazon's business and that there was the executive office going in and basically making sure that Amazon did not win it. So we said there's a lot of business out there. We know Amazon doing well, and the government deals Gelsinger was on record from VMware talking about lots of, >>well here's, here's, here's the thing. I also talked to someone inside the CIA community who will tell me that the spending in the CIA is flat. Okay. And the, the flatness of the, of the spending is flat, but the demand for mission support is going exponential. So the cloud fits that bill. On the Jedi side, what we're hearing is the DOD folks love this architecture. It was not jury rig for Amazon's jury rig for the workload, so that they're all worried that it's going to get scuttled and they don't want that project to fail. There's huge support and I think the Jedi supports the workload transformational thinking because it's completely different. And that's why everyone was running scared because the old guard was getting, getting crushed by it. But no one wants that deal to fail. They want it to go forward. So it's gonna be very interesting dynamics do if Microsoft can't deliver the goods, Amazon's back in the driver's seat >>deal. And John, I guess you know my final takeaway, we talked a bunch about outpost but that is a building block, 80 West local zones starting first in LA for the telco media group, AWS wavelength working with the five G providers. We had Verizon on the program here. Amazon is becoming the everywhere cloud and they really, as Dave said in your opening keynote there, shock and awe, Amazon delivers mere after a year >>maybe this logo should be everything everywhere cause they've got a lot of capabilities that you said the everything cloud, they've got everything in the store do great stuff. Great on the keynote from Verner Vogel's again, more technology. I'm super excited around the momentum around Coobernetti's you know we love that they think cloud native is going to be absolutely legit and continue to be on a tear in 2020 and beyond. I think the five G wavelength is going to change the network constructs because that's going to introduce new levels of kinds of policy. Managing data and compute at the edge will create new opportunities at the networking layer, which for us, you know, we love that. So I think the IOT edge is going to be a super, super valuable. We even had Blackberry on their, their car group talking about the software inside the car. I mean that's a moving mobile device of, of of industrial strength is industrial IOT. So industrial IOT, IOT, edge outpost, hybrid dude, we called this what year? Yeah, we call that 2013. >>And John, it's great to help our audience get a little bit more cloud native on their education and uh, you know, make sure that we're not as naive anymore. >>Still you're not naive. You're certainly cloud native, born in the clouds do, it's us born here. Our seventh year here at Amazon web services. Want to thank Intel for being our headline sponsor. Without Intel support, we would not have the two stages and bringing all the wall to wall coverage. Thanks for supporting our mission. Intel. We really appreciate it. Give them a shout out. We've got Andy Jassy coming on for exclusive at three o'clock day three stay with us for more coverage. Live in Vegas for reinvent 2019 be right back.

>>long from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering a ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners. >>Welcome back here in the Cube, we continue our coverage here Day one, a day Ws re invent 2019 were on the show floor You could probably see behind the city's packed is exciting. Great exhibits, great keynotes this morning, Dan. A lot from Andy Jassy, Justin Warren. John Walls were joined by Jasper Singh, who is the founder and CEO of DRUVA. Good to have you here on the Cube. Thank you very much. And I say a whiner whose principal technologist at a. W s and I say it Good to see you this morning. Thanks very much. Thanks for being here. First off, tell me a little bit about drove up for folks at home. Might not be familiar. And then we're gonna get into your relationship with a W s. And why the two of you are sitting in first. Just a little thumbnail about druva. >>Sure, as we all know, data is growing by leaps and bounds on dhe. Data management prediction has been a big challenge for all enterprises driven the SAS platform very long. AWS, which helps him manage to get up and do it from the center to deal in the cloud toe at the educations, simply console to manage protection governance management on a single pane of glass. All >>right, so the two of you together we were talking before the interview a little bit about maybe some of these common attributes or shared values which make your partnership. I wouldn't say unique, but certainly make it work. So go over that a little bit about maybe we're that synergy exists where you see that overlap in your mission and why you think it's working so well for you to reveal your partnership. Once you're Jeffrey, why don't you jump on that? Isaiah? I >>think we saw a big chain in the enterprise landscape Hunter team and I made personally met Fiona Vogel back then and understood that big change and enterprise buying when it comes to a public cloud, data belongs to public cloud, the weeds growing and eventually manage on rebuild the entire rocket picture around the whole notion off a centralized sort of a data lake to predict it manageable on Arab us. We thought about eight of us in public cloud of completely different operating system. It's not just not about our technology team kicked out of the business changes with people want to buy an S L. A. Across the global consistent price point so delivered already have toe, understand how they built differently, operate differently security point of view cost part of you and also sell differently. You're gonna market partnerships you're setting motion procurement. All changes to be redesigned, reactivated entire drove our experience around Public Cloud And Amazon is in a great partner all throughout to build a story on top of the platform not just to based technology on, but are breeding a printing model on selling motion on and course introduced to customer benefits on. >>So one of the things that customers tell us is that when they come to the cloud, they want less stuff to manage. And it can be difficult sometimes to deal the new set of primitives. You know, the way things worked in your data center understanding locality, these sorts of things. A lot of this stuff gets abstracted in the cloud, and so druva help sort of take away all of that and create a simple solution for customers. They've been doing this for a long time, actually, you know, offering full SAS solution to customers not only who want to protect data in the cloud, but also on Prem to the cloud. And the way that eight of us goes about an Amazon in general goes about creating things for customers is way. Have what we call a working backwards process. And it all ties back to our first of 14 leaders, principles, customer obsession. And so one of the things that's really nice about working with druva is that they also have a working backwards process. And so we get to do a lot of that stuff together there, also a customer. So, you know, it's not just a partnership there. Also a customer, because they operate this SAS platform. And so, for quite a long time, for example, they've been one of the larger dynamodb customers. They've developed tight relationships with our service teams way our field knows them, you know, if you ask the field, you know, name a backup provider, you know chances are pretty good. They're gonna know Drew right, so and because they're all in on eight of us, it gives us an opportunity to launch things together. So when we have new storage classes in the past and new devices, new offerings Drew has been a launch partner on multiple occasions. I >>was gonna ask about that. A lien on AWS, like as a customer if I'm buying some clouds. So it's like I want to buy an S l A a cz you mentioned. Just do it. Do it. Really care which cloud you you picked as a customer >>customer. You really cared about an SL for for data recovery, which you need a guarantee across the group. That's a simplest part. So in that context, they don't care. But it goes beyond that. Data and infrastructure is very connected to shoot for the enterprise they wanted, you know, just to be recovered. But integrated with other service is, for example, Panis is are they have other value. Our service is you want to be part of the whole story from that perspective because there is so integral to their lesson strategy. They do care about where we're building this new every center from my data management, but they are getting more and more fragmented in both centralized way to manage. The more centralized way happens to be on the best known of embroidery, which happens to have all the service is to surround it of it. You do start to care about you know how they're holding me may transform the journey of data for the customer >>Ueno from the Kino this morning that I think it's only about 3% of total spend is on clouds, and there is room for a cloud to grow here. But that also means that there's a lot of data that sitting out there that isn't actually in the cloud. So a cloud based backup service like how the customers who already have existing onsite data, How should they think about this? You mentioned that they need to think about it in a different way and change the way that you experienced backup. So how how the customers start to understand what they should be doing differently and how they should think about their data in a different way. To start looking at something like the river >>Absolutely reversal. Ashley's got people, plus one that typically customers have 3.1 bucket solutions in their in their environment. They don't accept it, but they do have multiple softness. They always are the new one to replace an old one, but it still keep their legacy on what they need to do. What I do when I was to look for meditators before driven were tons and tons of legacy being managing very cars. And then I was always very, very hard. You have to spend a lot of time to manage all throughout, withdrew. Our philosophy is that your next generation of workloads, your next edition of evolution towards loud used to happen in river for a legacy. You could still keep the legacy software's IBM better cars. Let's keep on doing what you do with them. You're next. Attrition off architecture refresh, Refresh should happen in >>a zone old back of admin Who's gone through that process multiple times. Managing tape is a nightmare. Yes, I can. I can absolutely attest that that is the process. That enterprise tends to go through it like you want to pick something that you want to put all the new stuff on. Do you? Do you see anyone actually bringing data from their old system that they migrated across. So they just go, You know what? We'll just wait for it to die. >>I think a lot of people do a mix of both right today. They may have a cold data with a more humanity move toe deep archive a glacier from active data management part if you want to see how do it, how do they change processes to impact date evolution From now on 1st 1st 1st and foremost before they started, Look at old arcade media could be born on a CZ. Well, I think with evolution of deep archive, evolution off other service is much cheaper than tapes. It's about time that people start now, look at older technology that how do you know Maybe encompasses? Well, >>yeah, To me, this stuff is kind of hard. All right, on down might be oversimplifying, but you've got your warm data. You got stuff, it's cold. That might sit there for years. And we're gonna work, you know, we're never gonna worry about it again. But I have to decide what's warmer. What's cold. If I've got legacy and I've got new, I've got to decide what I want to bring over what I don't and then I've got the edge. I've got a i ot I've got all this stuff. No exponential growth data scale. So to me, it's it's It's a confounding problem of I'm in enterprise. It's already got my stuff going, as opposed to. If I'm totally born on the cloud, right, that's a how do you deal with? It's easy to do it from scratch. It's a lot harder to do it when I've got I'm bringing all his baggage with me and why do I want to bring on that headache? >>So I want you to think about it, says that you know, where would you want to innovate and start their first like a zombie? This is said that this morning in Kenya, or that whenever someone tells you you have one tool for it all, they probably wrong about it. Right? You. It's all for the best tool for the best problems. So you look at the way you really wouldn't want it any way you start there first to bring in the cloud first, then it slowly insanity. Start to lower your workload by getting rid of legacy or by re factoring in overtime. >>You've been doing this for a little while, So I assume that this isn't This isn't something that only just a couple of people of dipping their toe in the water and trying out. You told us before they actually had quite a bit of success with this. >>I think whenever there's an interesting problem, this competition. So we do have some new age companies coming to tow. What we do for a living drama is heading scale we announced this morning. We're $100 revenue run rate of business. So you just thought about building it right? But as I mentioned, it's about operating unit scale will be run about six million back after a week, with more than with better than 0.1% efficiency. It successfully the amount of paranoia going into security cost optimization Dev Ops Mount Off Hardware goes into building a good market motion to buy from marketplace by consumption models is very different from from legacy. Technology for side is only the first body, but Amazon has done for industry, which we're leading with cheerleading and we're falling. Example off is how you transform the buying baby of customer was something radically simple than ever before. >>You know, as a that's been been really a topic, and he's talked about it a lot. This transformation versus transition. It's kind of like being a little bit pregnant, you know, you have to transform yourself right and maybe it's not dipping the toe, but it's diving in that deep end. So from the AWS perspective and from what we've been hearing, just free talk about put it in that in that context, if you will, about people who are, I guess, willing to make a full fledged commitment and jump in and go is supposed to dabble in a little bit and maybe being a little bit pregnant, >>I mean something you mentioned earlier about two people. Just let let stuff rot. Yes, there is some of that like, don't get me wrong. I talked with customers all the time and they have three different backup providers. But the fact is, is that when they go to the cloud they look at okay, where can I cut and run, you know, And when they look at their the things that not only matter in order for them to transition their operations into the cloud. But then they look at, like, the new rate of data creation that they've got going on in the cloud. They sort of a lot of customers. They look at the old models of of enterprise, back of sweets and they say, Okay, I know how to operate this, But do I want to? Or they look at it, You know, some of the finer things. Like, you know, am I doing all the right things from a security perspective? In all of the right connection points across all of the right pieces of software, the answer may not be yes. Or maybe the answer is yes. And they look at other things, like, you know, what is my r p o gonna be? What is my rto gonna be? Can I abandon my eight of us account because of about actor scenario and go to another account and do a restore without having to have infrastructure in there? First you can if it's in somebody else's infrastructure in this case druva right. So, like there's there's a hard way to do things in an easy way to do things and drew has done things. Arguably, I would say they've done things the hard way so that customers can do things the easy way. It's probably a good way to characterize it. Early on, Druva decided that they didn't want to be in the infrastructure business, so they built something on top of a platform that would allow them to stop having to worry about that stuff. And if you're trying to on board a lot of customers concurrently than that, something that you want to scale automatically right, you know these kinds of things. When we talk to customers and customers ask us questions like You know what? Our customers using toe back up in eight of us. They often ask qualifying questions like I'm in a certain region or I'm in govcloud or I have too much data on prim for my bandwidth capabilities. And I don't really want to get into a new three year contract because I want to shut down this data center in October and it's, you know, maybe it's September, you know, maybe I don't have a lot of runway on, so they're looking for things like support for Snowball Edge. They're looking for things like not having Thio worry about. Do I have to modify all of my traditional applications to take advantage of other storage tears or my cold data? How do I get it into something like Amazon has three glacier deep archives without having to really know how that works on DSO. When these folks look at the clouds, they think aws because of all of the things that AWS enables them to do without them having to have, ah, a massive learning curve. When it comes to data protection in the cloud, Dhruv is doing the same thing. >>Well, the good news for Justin and me and Isaiah's, Jasper said. You hit 100 million. So dinner's on you tonight. This is great. I look, congratulations. Thank you. That is a big number and congratulate great success. Wish you all the best down the road and thank you both for being with us here on the Q. We appreciate that. Thanks very much. Back with more live here in Las Vegas. You're watching the Cuban eight of us. Raven 2019

>> live from New York. It's the Q covering AWS Global Summit 2019 brought to you by Amazon Web service, is >> welcome back here in New York City on stew Minimum. My co host is Corey Quinn. In the keynote this morning, Warner Vogel's made some new announcements what they're doing and also brought out a couple of customers who are local and really thrilled and excited to have on the program the C i O and E V P from Finn Ra here in New York City. Steve Randall, thanks so much for joining us. You're welcome. Thank you. All right, so, you know, quite impressive. You know when when I say one of those misunderstood words out there to talk about scale and you talk about speed and you know, you were you know, I'm taking so many notes in your keynote this 1 500,000 compute note. Seven terabytes worth of new data daily with half a trillion validation checks per day, some pretty impressive scale, and therefore, you know, it's I t is not the organ that kind of sits in the basement, and the business doesn't think about it business and I t need to be in lobster. So, you know, I think most people are familiar with in Rome. But maybe give us the kind of bumper sticker as Thio What dinner is today and you know, the >> the organization. Yeah, I started it Fender and 2013. I thought I was gonna come into a typical regulator, which is, as you alluded to technologies, kind of in the basement. Not very important, not strategic. And I realized very quickly two things. Number one, The team was absolutely talented. A lot of the people that we've got on her team came from start ups and other technology companies. Atypical financial service is and the second thing is we had a major big data challenge on our hands. And so the decision to go to the cloud S I started in March 2013. By July of that year, I was already having dialogue with our board of directors about having to go to the cloud in orderto handle the data. >> Yeah, so you know, big data was supposed to be that bit flip that turned that. Oh, my God. I have so much data to Oh, yea, I can monetize and do things with their data. So give us a little bit of that, That data journey And what? That that you talk about the flywheel? The fact that you've got inside Finneran. >> Yeah. So we knew that we needed the way were running at that time on data warehouse appliances from E, M. C. And IBM. And which a data warehouse appliance. You go back 10 15 years. That was where big data was running. But those machines are vertically scalable, and when you hit the top of the scale, then you've got to buy another bigger one, which might not be available. So public cloud computing is all about horizontal scale at commodity prices to things that those those data data warehouse appliance didn't have. They were vertical and proprietary, inexpensive. And so the key thing was to come up to select the cloud vendor between Google, IBM, You know, the usual suspects and architect our applications properly so that we wouldn't be overly vendor dependent on the cloud provider and locked in if you will, and that we could have flexibility to use commodity software. So we standardized in conjunction with our move to the public cloud on open source software, which we continue today. So no proprietary software for the most part running in the cloud. And we were just very smart about architect ing our systems at that point in time to make sure that those opportunities prevailed. And the other thing I would say, this kind of the secret of our success Is it because we were such early adopters we were in the financial service industry and a regulator toe boots that we had engineering access to the cloud providers and the big, big date open source software vendors. So we actually had the engineers from eight of us and other firms coming in to help us learn how to do it, to do it right. And that's been part of our culture ever since. >> One thing that was, I guess a very welcome surprise is normally these keynotes tend to fall into almost reductive tropes where first, we're gonna have some Twitter for pet style start up talking about all the higher level stuff they're doing, and then we're gonna have a large, more serious company. Come in and talk about how we moved of'em from our data center into the cloud gay Everyone clap instead, there was it was very clear. You're using higher level, much higher level service is on top of the cloud provider. It's not just running the M somewhere else in the same way you would on premise. Was that a transitional step that you went through or did you effectively when you went all in, start leveraging those higher service is >> okay. It's a great question. And ah, differentiator for us versus a lot. A lot of the large organizations with a legacy footprint that would not be practical to rewrite. We had outsourced I t entirely in the nineties E T s and it was brought back in source in in house early in this decade. And so we had kind of a fresh, fresh environment. Fresh people, no legacy, really other than the data warehouse appliances. So we had a spring a springboard to rewrite our abs in an agile way to be fully cloud enabled. So we work with eight of us. We work with Cloudera. We work with port works with all the key vendors at that time and space to figure out how to write Ah wraps so they could take most advantage of what the cloud was offering at that time. And that continues to prevail today. >> That that's a great point because, you know so often it's that journey to cloud. But it's that application modernization, that journey. Right. So bring us in little inside there is. You know how it is. You know, what expertise did Finn Ra have there? I mean, you don't want to be building applications. It is the open stuff source. The things wasn't mature enough. How much did they have toe help work, you know, Would you call it? You know, collaboration? >> Yeah. The first year was hard because I would have, you know, every high performance database vendor, and I see a number of them here today. I'm sure they're paddling their AWS version now, but they had a a private, proprietary database version. They're saying if you want to handle the volumes that you're seeing and predicting you really need a proprietary, they wouldn't call it proprietary. But it was essentially ah, very unique solution point solution that would cause vendor dependency. And so and then and then my architects internally, we're saying, No way, Wanna go open source because that's where the innovation and evolution is gonna be fastest. And we're not gonna have vendor Lock in that decision that that took about a year to solidify. But once we went that way, we never looked back. So from that standpoint, that was a good bad, and it made sense. The other element of your question is, how How much of this did we do on our own, rely on vendors again? The kind of dirty little secret of our beginnings here is that we ll average the engineer, you know, So typically a firm would get the sales staff, right. We got the engineers we insisted on in orderto have them teach our engineers how to do these re architectures to do it right. Um and we use that because we're in the financial service industry as a regulator, right? So they viewed us as a reference herbal account that would be very valuable in their portfolio. So in many regards, that was way scratch each other's back. But ultimately, the point isn't that their engineers trained our engineers who trained other engineers. And so when I when I did the, uh um keynote at the reinvented 2016 sixteen one of my pillars of our success was way didn't rely overly on vendors. In the end, we trained 2016 1 5 to 600 of our own staff on how to do cloud architectures correctly. >> I think at this point it's very clear that you're something of an extreme outlier in that you integrate by the nature of what you do with very large financial institutions. And these historically have not been firms that have embraced the cloud with speed and enthusiasm that Fenner has. Have you found yourself as you're going in this all in on the cloud approach that you're having trouble getting some of those other larger financial firms to meet you there, or is that not really been a concern based upon fenders position with an ecosystem? >> Um, I would say that five years ago, very rare, I would say, You know, we've had a I made a conscious effort to be very loud in the process of conferences about our journey because it has helped us track talent. People are coming to work for us as a senior financial service. The regulator that wouldn't have considered it five years ago, and they're doing it because they want to be part of this experience that we're having, but it's a byproduct of being loud, and the press means that a lot of firms are saying, Well, look what Fender is doing in the cloud Let's go talk to them So we've had probably at this 50.200 firms that have come defender toe learn from our experience. We've got this two hour presentation that kind of goes through all the aspects of how to do it right, what, what to avoid, etcetera, etcetera. And, um, you know, I would say now the company's air coming into us almost universally believe it's the right direction. They're having trouble, whether it's political issues, technology dat, you name it for making the mo mentum that we've made. But unlike 45 years ago, all of them recognize that it's it's the direction to go. That's almost undisputed at this point. And you're opening comment. Yeah, we're very much an outlier. We've moved 97 plus percent of our APS 99 plus percent of our data. We are I mean, the only thing that hasn't really been moved to the cloud at this point our conscious decisions, because those applications that are gonna die on the vine in the data center or they don't make sense to move to the cloud for whatever reason. >> Okay, You've got almost all your data in the cloud and you're using open source technology. Is Cory said if I was listening to a traditional financial service company, you know, they're telling me all the reasons that for governance and compliance that they're not going to do it. So you know, why do you feel safe putting your your data in the cloud? >> Uh, well, we've looked at it. So, um, I spent my first year of Finn run 2013 early, 2014 but mostly 2013. Convincing our board of directors that moving our most critical applications to the public cloud was going to be no worse from the information security standpoint than what we're doing in our private data centers. That presentation ultimately made it to other regulators, major firms on the street industry, lobbyist groups like sifma nephi. AP got a lot of air time, and it basically made the point using logic and reasoning, that going to the cloud and doing it right not doing it wrong, but doing it right is at least is secure from a physical logical standpoint is what we were previously doing. And then we went down that route. I got the board approval in 2015. We started looking at it and realizing, Wait a minute, what we're doing here encrypting everything, using micro segmentation, we would never. And I aren't doing this in our private data center. It's more secure. And at that point in time, a lot of the analysts in our industry, like Gardner Forrester, started coming out with papers that basically said, Hey, wait a minute, this perception the cloud is not as safe is on Prem. That's wrong. And now we look at it like I can't imagine doing what we're doing now in a private data center. There's no scale. It's not a secure, etcetera, etcetera. >> And to some extent, when you're dealing with banks and start a perspective now and they say, Oh, we don't necessarily trust the cloud. Well, that's interesting. Your regulator does. In other cases, some tax authorities do. You provided tremendous value just by being as public as you have been that really starts taking the wind out of the sails of the old fear uncertainty and doubt. Arguments around cloud. >> Yeah, I mean, doubts around. It's not secure. I don't have control over it. If you do it right, those are those are manageable risks, I would argue. In some cases, you've got more risk not doing it. But I will caution everything needs to be on the condition that you've got to do it right. Sloppy migration in the cloud could make you less secure. So there there are principles that need to be followed as part of >> this. So Steve doing it right. You haven't been sitting still. One of the things that really caught my attention in the keynote was you said the last four years you've done three re architectures and what I want. Understand? You said each time you got a better price performance, you know, you do think so. How do you make sure you do it right? Yet have flexibility both in an architect standpoint, and, you know, don't you have to do a three year reserves intense for some of these? How do you make sure you have the flexibility to be able to take advantage of you? Said the innovation in automation. >> Yeah. Keep moving forward with. That's Ah, that's a deep technical question. So I'm gonna answer it simply and say that we've architected the software and hardware stack such. There's not a lot of co dependency between them, and that's natural. I t. One on one principle, but it's easier to do in the cloud, particularly within AWS, who kind of covers the whole stacks. You're not going to different vendors that aren't integrated. That helps a lot. But you also have architect it, right? And then once you do that and then you automate your software development life cycle process, it makes switching out anyone component of that stack pretty easy to do and highly automated, in some cases completely automated. And so when new service is our new versions of products, new classes of machines become available. We just slip him in, and the term I use this morning mark to market with Moore's Law. That's what we aspire to do to have the highest levels of price performance achievable at the time that it's made available. That wasn't possible previously because you would go by ah hardware kit and then you'd appreciate it for five years on your books at the end of those five years, it would get kind of have scale and reliability problems. And then you go spend tens of millions of dollars on a new kit and the whole cycle would start over again. That's not the case here. >> Machine learning something you've been dipping into. Tell us the impact, what that has and what you see. Going forward. >> It's early, but we're big believers in machine learning. And there's a lot of applications for at Venera in our various investigatory and regulatory functions. Um, again, it's early, but I'm a big believer that the that the computer stored scale, commodity costs in the public cloud could be tapped into and lever it to make Aye aye and machine learning. Achieve what everybody has been talking about it, hoping to achieve the last several decades. We're using it specifically right now in our surveillance is for market manipulation and fraud. So fraudsters coming in and manipulating prices in the stock market to take advantage of trading early days but very promising in terms of what it's delivered so far. >> Steve want to give you the final word. You know, your thank you. First of all for being vocal on this. It sounds like there's a lot of ways for people to understand and see. You know what Fenner has done and really be a you know, an early indicator. So, you know, give us a little bit. Look forward, you know what more? Where's Finn Ra going next on their journey. And what do you want to see more from, You know, Amazon and the ecosystem around them to make your life in life, your peers better. >> Yes. So some of the kind of challenges that Amazon is working with us and partnering Assan is getting Ah Maur, automated into regional fell over our our industries a little bit queasy about having everything run with a relatively tight proximity in the East Coast region. And while we replicate our data to the to the other East region, we think AIM or co production environment, like we have across the availability zones within the East, would be looked upon with Maur advocacy of that architecture. From a regulatory standpoint, that would be one another. One would be, um, one of the big objections to moving to a public cloud vendor like Amazon is the vendor dependency and so making sure that we're not overly technically dependent on them is something that I think is a shared responsibility. The view that you could go and run a single application across multiple cloud vendors. I don't think anybody has been able to successfully do that because of the differences between providers. You could run one application in one vendor and another application in another vendor. That's fine, but that doesn't really achieve the vendor dependency question and then going forward for Finn or I mean, riel beauty is if you architected your applications right without really doing any work at all, you're going to continuously get the benefits of price performance as they go forward. You're not kind of locked into a status quo, So even without doing much of any new work on our applications, we're gonna continue to get the benefits. That's probably outside of the elastic, massive scale that we take advantage of. That's probably the biggest benefit of this whole journey. >> Well, Steve Randall really appreciate >> it. >> Thank you so much for sharing the journey of All right for Cory cleanups to minimum back with lots more here from eight Summit in New York City. Thanks for watching the cue

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the Cube covering A W s reinforce 2019 brought to you by Amazon Web service is and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone to Cubes. Live coverage here in Boston, Massachusetts for eight of us reinforced Amazon Web service is inaugural event around Cloud Security. I'm Jeffrey Day Volante. Two days of coverage. We're winding down Day two. We're excited to have a year in The Cube Special guest, part of Big and that one of the big announcements. Well, I think it's big. Nerdy Announcement is the automated reasoning. Byron Cook, director of the Automated Reasoning Group within AWS. Again, this is part of the team that's gonna help figure out security use automation to augment humans. Great to have you on big part of show here. Thanks very much to explain the automated reasoning group. Verner Vogel had a great block post on All things distributed applies formal verification techniques in an innovative way to cloud security and compliance for our customers. For our own there's developers. What does that mean? Your math? >> Yeah, let me try. I'll give you one explanation, and if I puzzle, you all try to explain a different way. 300 So do you know the Pythagorean Theorem? Yeah, sure, Yeah. So? So that the path I agree in theory is about all triangles that was proved in approximately B. C. It's the proof is a finite description in logic as to why it's true and holds for all possible triangles. So we're basically using This same approach is to prove properties of policies of networks of programs, for example, crypto virtualization, the storage, et cetera. So we write software. This finds proofs in mathematics and this the proofs are the same as what you could found for thuggery and should apply into >> solve problems that become these mundane tasks of checking config files, making sure things are that worries kind of that's I'll give you an example. So so that's two in which is the T. L s implementation used, for example, in history. But the large majority >> of AWS has approximately 12,000 state holding elements, so that with if you include the stack of the heat usage, so the number >> of possible >> states it could reach us to to the 12,000. And if you wanted to show that the T. L s handshake Implementation is correct or the H Mac implementation is correct. Deterministic random bit generator implementation is correct, which is what we do using conventional methods like trying to run tests on it. So you would need, if you have, like, 1,000,000 has, well, microprocessors and you would need many more lifetimes in the sun is gonna admit light at 3.4 $4,000,000,000 a year to test to exhaustively test the system. So what we do is we rather than just running a bunch of inputs on the code, we we represent that as the mathematical system and then we use proof techniques, auto automatically search for a proof and with our tools, we in about 10 minutes or able to prove all those properties of s two in the way of your intimidates. And then we apply that to pieces of s three pieces of easy to virtual ization infrastructure on. Then, uh, what we've done is we've realized that customers had a lot of questions about their networks and their policies. So, for example, they have a complicated network worldwide different different availability zones, different regions on. They want to ask. Hey, does there exist away for this machine to connect to this other machine. Oh, are you know, to do all this all SS H traffic coming in that eventually gets to my Web server, go through a bastion host, which is the best, best practice. And then we can answer that question again, using logic. So we take the representation that semantics of easy to networking the policy, the network from the customer, and then the question we're asking, expressing logic. And we throw a big through their call ifthere improver, get the answer back. And then same for policy. >> So you're analyzing policies, >> policies, networks, programs, >> networks, connections. Yeah, right. And it to the tooling is sell cova. Eso >> eso eso basically way come with We come with an approach and then we have many tools that implement the approach on different, different problems. That's how you apply Volkova all underneath. It's all uses of a kind of tool called SMT inside. So there's a south's over, uh, proves theorems about formula and proposition. A logic and SMT is sat modular theories. Those tools can prove properties of problems expressed in first order logic. And so what we do is we take the, for example, if you have a question about your policies answering, answering semantic level questions about policies is actually a piece space problem. So that's harder than NP complete. We express the question in logic and then call the silvery and they get their answer back on Marshall it back. And that's what Volkova does. So that's calling a tool called CVC four, which is which is an open source. Prove er and we wenzel Koval. We take the policy three question encoded to logic. Call a Silver and Marshall answer back. >> What's the What's the root of this? I mean, presumably there's some academic research that was done. You guys were applying it for your specific use case, But can you share with this kind of He's the origination of this. >> So the first Impey complete problem was discovered by a cook and not not me. Another cook the early seventies on. So he proved that the proposition a ll satisfy ability problem is impeccably and meanwhile, there's been a lot of research from the sixties. So Davis and Putnam, for example, I think a paper from the mid sixties where they were, we're trying to answer the question of can we efficiently solved this NP complete problem proposition will satisfy ability on that. Researchers continue. There have been a bunch of breakthroughs, and so now we're really starting to see very from. There's a big breakthrough in 2001 on, then some and then some further breakthroughs in the 5 4008 range. So what we're seeing is that the solvers air getting better and better. So there's an international competition of Let's Save, usually about 30 silvers. And there's a study recently where they took all of the winners from this competition each year 2001 5 4008 30 2002 to 2011 and compared them on the same bench marks and hardware, and the 2002 silver is able to solve 1/4 of the benchmarks in the 2011 solved practically all of them and then the the 2019 silvers, or even better. Nowadays they can take problems and logic that have many tens of millions of variables and solve them very efficiently. So we're really using the power of those underlying solvers and marshaling the questions to those to those overs, codifying thinking math. And that's the math. The hour is you gave a talk in one sessions around provable security. Kind of the title proves provable. >> What's what is that? What is that? Intel. Can you just explain that concept and sure, in the top surfaces. So, uh, uh, >> so mathematical logic. You know, it's 2000 years old, right? So and has refined Sobule, for example, made logic less of a philosophical thing and more of a mathematical thing. Uh, and and then automated reasoning was sort of developed in the sixties, where you take algorithms and apply algorithms to find proofs and mathematical logic. And then provable security is the application of automated reasoning to questions and security and compliance. So we you wanna prove absence of memory, corruption errors and C code You won't approve termination of of event handling routines that are supposed to handle security events. All of those questions, their properties of your program. And you can use these tools to automatically or uh oh, our find proofs and then check The proofs have been found manually. That's what that's >> where approvable security fix. What was the makeup of the attendee list where people dropping this where people excited was all bunch of math geeks. You have a cross section of great security people here, and they're deep dive conversations Not like reinvent this show. This is really deep security. What was some of the feedback and makeup of the attendees? >> Give you two answers because I actually gave to talks. And the and the answers are a little bit different because the subject of the talk So there was one unprovable security, which was a basically the foundation of logic And how we how Cheers since Volkova and our program, because we also prove correctness of crypto and so on. So those tools and so that was largely a, uh uh, folks who had heard about it. And we're wanting to know more, and we're and we're going to know how we're using it and trying to learn there was a second talk, which was about the application of it to compliance. So that was with Tomic, Andrew, who is the CEO of Coal Fire, one of the third party auditors that AWS uses in a lot of customers used and also Chad Wolf, who's vice president of security, focused on compliance. And so the three of us spoke about how we're using it internally within eight of us to automate, >> uh, >> certification compliance, sort of a commission on. So that crowd was really interesting mixture of people interested in automated reasoning and people interested in compliance, which are two communities you wouldn't think normally hang together. But that's sort of like chocolate and peanut butter. It turns out to be a really great application, >> and they need to work together to, because it is the world. The action is they don't get stuck in the compliance and auditing fools engineering teams emerging with old school compliance nerds. So there's a really interesting, uh, sort of dynamic to proof that has a like the perfect use casing compliance. So the problem of like proving termination of programs is undecided ble proving problems and proposition a logic is np complete as all that sounds very hard, difficult and you use dearest six to solve this problem. But the thing is that once you've found a proof replaying, the proof is linear and size of the proof, so actually you could do extremely efficiently, and that has application and compliance. So one could imagine that you have, for example, PC I hip fed ramp. You have certain controls that you want to prove that the property like, for example, within a W s. We have a control that all data dressed must be encrypted. So we are using program verification tools, too. Show that of the code base. But now, once we've run that tool that constructs a proof like Euclid founded the sectarian serum that you can package up in a file hand to an auditor. And then a very simple, easy to understand third party open source tool could replay that proof. And so that becomes audit evidence. It's a scale of total examples >> wth e engineering problem. You're solving a security at scale. The business problem. You're solving it. Yeah. His customers are struggling. Just implementing There just >> aren't enough security professionals to hire right? So the old day is, the talk explains. It's out there all on YouTube's. The people watching the show can go check it out. But I am by the way I should I should make a plug for if you Google a W s provable security. There's a Web page on eight of us that has papers and videos and lots of information, so you might wanna check that out. I can't remember what I was answering now, but >> it's got links to the academic as >> well. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. That was the point that Tommy Kendra is pointing out, as in the old days, you would do an audit would come in to be a couple minutes box that we win this box. You check a few things to be a little network. Great. But now you have machines across the world, extremely complex networks, interaction between policies, networks, crypto, etcetera. And so there's There's no way a human or even a team of human could come in and have any reasonable chance of actually deeply understanding the system. So they just sort of check some stuff and then they call it success. And these tools really allow you to actually understand the entire system buyer and you guys doing some cutting edge work, >> folks watching and want to know how math translates into the real world with all your high school kids out their parents. This is stuff you learn in school like you could be played great work. I think I think this is cutting edge. I think math and the confidence of math intersects with groups. The compliance example audited example shows that world's gonna come together with math. I think this is a big mega trend. It's gonna not eliminate the human element. It's going augment that so great stuff, its final question just randomly. And while you're here, since your math guru we're always interested, we always covering our favorite topic of Blockchain, huh? We believe that a security conference is gonna soon have a Blockchain component because because of the mutability of it, there's a lot of math behind it. So as that starts to mature certainly Facebook entering him at their own currency. Whole nother conversation you don't want to have here is bring a lot of attention. So we see the intersection of security being a supply chain problem in the future. Your thoughts on that just generally. So So the problem of proving programs is undecided, and that means that you can't build a general solution. What you're gonna have to do is look >> for niche areas like device drivers, networks, policies, AP, I used to dream crypto et cetera, and then make the tools work for that area, and you will have to be comfortable with the idea that occasionally the tools aren't gonna be able to find an answer. And so the Amazon culture of being customer obsessed and working as closely as possible with the customer has been really helpful to my community of of logic, uh, full methods, practitioners, because they were really forced to work with a customer, understand the problem. So what I've been doing is listening to the customer on finding out what the problems with concerns. They are focusing my attention on that. And I haven't yet heard of, uh, of customers asking for mathematical proof on crypto currency Blockchain sorts of stuff. But I'm I I await further and you're intrigued. Yeah, I'm s I always like mathematics, but where we have been hearing customers asked for help is for Temple. We're working on free Our toss s o i o T applications Understand the networks that are connecting up the coyote to the cloud, understanding the correctness of machine learning. So why, why So I reused. I've done some machine learning. I've constructed a model. How do I know what it does? And is it compliant? Does it respect hip fed ramp PC, i et cetera, and some other issues like that. >> There's a lot of talk in the industry about quantum computing and creating nightmares for guys like you. How much thought given that you have any thing that you can share with us? >> Yes. Oh, there's there's work in the AWS crypto team preparing for the post quantum world. So imagine Adversary has quantum computer. And so there are proposals on eight of us has a number of proposals, and we've and those proposals have been implemented. So their standards and we've our team has been doing proof on the correctness of those. So, actually, in the one of my talks, I think the talk not with Chad and Tom. I show a demo of our work to prove the correctness of someplace quantum code. >> So, Byron, thank you for coming on the inside. Congratulations on the automated reason. Good to see it put in the practice and appreciate the commentary. Thank you very much. Thank you. Here for the first inaugural security cloud security event reinforced AWS is putting on cube coverage. I'm John Fairy with Day Volonte. Thanks for watching

live from Las Vegas it's the cube covering AWS reinvent 2018 brought to you by Amazon Web Services Intel and their ecosystem partners okay welcome back and we're live here in Las Vegas day three last interview of the day three days of wall-to-wall coverage two sets here at AWS reinvent 2018 our sixth year we've been at every reinvent except for the first one and it's been great to watch the rise I'm Jeff we're with Dean Volante we're here with Andy Jesse the CEO of AWS started this as it working backwards document years ago twelve years ago 12 half year zine years ago was when the document was written and we've launched 12 and a half years ago great to see you thanks for spending time I know you're super busy congratulations we met last week you couldn't really talk about it but boy there was so much more payload in the announcements than they were before are you happy with the results certainly three our keynote was taxing what's good impression when the keynote was over but ya know we're thrilled with it and most importantly the reason we're thrilled is because our customers are thrilled I think they just couldn't believe how much we delivered this week you know well over 100 capabilities and they were super excited about you know the storage announced was the thing is when you have millions of customers any announcement you make is going to be popular with thousands of customers so some people walked up to me and said oh I know it's not sexy but I love the storage announcements I needed the file systems I wanted that glacier deep archive some customers love the database releases with lots of customers that were excited about the machine learning piece and you know the another unsexy one where the enterprise abstractions just to make it so much easier for that type of builder who wants more prescriptive guidance to be able to get started quicker and then you know people are pretty excited that outpost too so it has you a question I'll talk Amazon speak now what what areas of the show do you feel you raise the bar this year on what was that what would you point to bar raising moments announcements well you know I think each year one of the things I like about reinvent and that we work hard on is we'd like to have we don't really want it to be a corporate event we wanted to be quirky and we want it to be authentic and we want you know we want our community to fit to have fun here while they also learn so you know Midnight Madness is for instance something we do every you know we've done the last couple years and we try radically different things and so I thought that Tatanka eating contest raised the bar is again this year was the second year in a row that we said again as political World Records and you know I thought I really liked Peter De Santis --is and Myrna Vogel's keynotes on Monday and today respectively I thought they both were fantastic and you know keep raising the bar are you over a year and you know so they're you know we're hoping I too will be something that people feel like raise the bar year over year what the house band synchronicity was quite good too you know yeah I tell you that that fan is terrific and you know and I think that again all those things I mentioned are part of what we you know think makes the event fun and quirky and different but the most important thing by far is the learning of the education and then our customers excited about not just the platform but we launched so many things do they feel like it helps them do their job better well while we're on the raising bar we've got a prop here this is the the deep racer deep the deep racer machine learning it's a toy for testing and the question comes up how old do you have to be to use this and I said hey if your kid can code machine learning good for them but talk about this because this is kind of interesting because it's fun but where'd this come from you know it came from last year when we release sage maker and we were making machine learning so much easier for everyday developers of scientists we said what can we do to give people hands-on experience because you learn things better if you actually try it and so we tried to help developers get more experience to computer vision by having a deep lens you know video camera and that was wildly popular and so as we were thinking about this year making reinforcement learning available as easily as we are in sage maker which we think is a huge potential game-changer grant Forsman learning the team kept thinking about it's great but nobody knows enforcement learning and nobody has experienced with it how can we give them experience what are ways they can get hands-on experience and that's how the deep racer car came up which is really making it simple where they can just give us a reward function with a line of Python strip and then Sage Maker will automatically train an RL algorithm and then they get to play it to the car and then race against one another and when we watched how competitive it was getting inside our own house on these RL infused cars racing each other we figured other people might find a compelling as well and I couldn't believe how many people participate yesterday yeah and then I don't know if you saw it three burners right before burners keynote the finals were really exciting to like the fact that there were some imperfections were actually made it more compelling to watch and so we had a racer Cup coming up - I met play 19 competitive yes that's going to happen yeah today was the accelerated version of the first ever deep racer League championship Cup but next year will be a full season at our 20 AWS summits the top winners in the in the deep racers you see bracer League races at each of those summits plus the top 10 vote getters in points from those summits will come here and compete for the championship Cup now you and I talked about a new persona last week when we met but now the announcements pretty clear now why this points to a whole new persona developer you got eSports on the twitch side booming heat sports is changing the game and in the whole digital sports category robotics space you got a satellite announcement this is a genre changed in digital culture and you see the AI stuff and machine learning how does the web services stack play in this new world where AI is now a service it's a whole nother paradigm shift what's your thoughts on all that well you know I mean all those areas that were continuing to expand into our areas that our customers are asking us to help them with and where there are huge opportunities for customers but where it's hard I mean if you look at space as an example if you've to interact with a satellite it's it's expensive to have to have all those satellites set up you know and those drown ground antennas set up and then you have to program them and then and you actually have to pay this fixed price instead of on-demand customers so why can't you give us access those satellites the way we consume AWS and then if you can have the ground antennas where when the data comes down from the satellite it's basically on the same premises as your AWS region so we can store the data and process the data analyze it and take action that is very compelling so that that just felt like a natural fit you know and the same thing with robotics I think that robotics is one of the most underrated areas of Technology I think robots will do all kinds of things for us at work and in a home and the tools out there to make it easy to build robotic applications and to do the simulation to deploy them and then have them work with the rest of your applications and infrastructure have been pretty primitive and so robot maker is I agree with you I think you look at the younger generation too even at the high school elementary level people are gravitating towards robotics robotics clubs are booming that maker culture goes through a whole nother level with robotic congratulation you know it's funny we had the youngest person to ever pass the AWS certification exam is a kid named Karthik nine years old passed and he was here this week actually and I got a chance to meet with him today and I said well after the certification what are you doing he said well I'm building a robot you know I'm feeling Ruben he said now with your launch of deep racer I want to try and find a way to to have the deep racer car be the eyes and the camera and the reinforcement learning for my robot nine years old yes it's gonna be a different generation with what they build John and I were talking this morning Andy at our open about you're making it harder for the critics used to be self-service only it criticized your open source contributions the hybrid strategy your turn a tick in the box is on all those outpost was I think surprised a lot of people it didn't so much surprise us that you were moving in that direction but I wonder if you could sort of talk about some of those key initiatives I know it's customer driven but wow the the TAM expansion the the customer value that you're bringing it's like a whole new era that you're entering yeah you know everything we build is you guys know we talk about all the time it's just it's driven by what customers want and so we just started over the last six months you know and really by virtue of having this partnership with VMware where we have a lot of enterprise engagement as they're moving to the cloud using VMware cloud and AWS we had a bunch of customers say it's really great I'm moving most my application of the cloud but there's some that aren't moving for a while because they got to be close to selling on-premises and I want to use AWS for this I don't want a different environment can you just find a way to put some services like compute and storage on-premises and hardware but I want to actually use the same control plan I'm going to use for the rest of AWS and I wanted to easily connect with the rest of my applications in AWS and we had you know we didn't like as you and I talked about a week or two ago we just have not like the model that's been out there so far to do this because it's you know the control plane is different the api's are different the tools are different the hardware is different the functionality is different and customers don't like it's why it's not getting much traction and we didn't want to pursue it if we didn't think it was going to be useful but we had this concept we were working on with a couple customers where they wanted compute and storage on-premises but they wanted to have that connect with all the other applications in the AWS cloud and so we have this idea that maybe this local set of compute and storage would be like a far zone from an availability zone they were using and we started thinking about that and we thought there was much more generalized idea which became outposts and so the thing that I think people are gonna love about that is for the applications that can't move easily because they need to be close slang on-premises you get AWS like real AWS compute real AWS Storage Analytics database sage maker will be in there as well but it's the same api's same control playing the same tools the same hardware we use in our data centers and it will easily connect through the same control plane to the rest of AWS the rest of the services and the rest of their applications there so and it provides a platform for a whole host of new services down I mean every customer meeting I've had in the last we made the announcement people are excited about I want to ask you guys are talking about all the innovation and new areas and we're seeing an expansion of the AWS distinct brand and things like TV advertising statcast I wonder what's behind that can you address that yeah it's a good question I mean there's kind of two different types of I'll call it TV advert Swartz we're doing one is straight-up advertising one is less so which is you know the one that less so is that a number of the sports leagues are really interested in and actually pretty sophisticated in using cloud computing and analytics and machine learning if you look at Major League Baseball now NFL and Formula One and they want to make the user experience and the viewer experience so much better and so they're building on top of AWS and then we like the ability of helping them showcase the capabilities that they're you know both the customer experience and the ml and AI capabilities then there's just a straight-up advertising them that we've been trying we tried a little bit of it last q4 and you know it's always very difficult to quantitatively measure tvf but we have a lot of ways that we try to triangulate that and we were really surprised and what looked like the positive numbers we saw for both TV as well as the outdoor media and things like in the airports and things like that and so we decided we would try it again this q4 and you know I think I would call us right now still experimenting yeah and it's very much kind of what Amazon does which is we try different things to see what resonates the see Whitefield says so so far so good and we expect to keep experimenting I I think that's a good call because the brand lift is probably there I'll see impressions get reach vehicle but you guys are in a rising tide market we're hearing co-creation VMware co-creating deep meaningful partnerships you always talk about that so it's kind of this success model of innovation to reimagine the satellite Lockheed Martin a partnership this seems to be a new way to do business in this rising tide how are you guys getting the word out education people want to know more this is a big kind of movement yeah well you know I think that if you looked at the first several years of AWS I was always surprised when I would go see enterprises and they would have no idea that Amazon was doing anything in the cloud even though we had the only cloud offering at the time so I think if you compare where we were a few years ago to today there's you know gigantic awareness relatively speaking but I still think that there are so many majority of workloads still live on premises I mean we have a twenty seven billion dollar revenue run rate business it's growing forty six percent year-over-year and yet we're still at the early stages of the meet of enterprise of public sector adoption in the u.s. you go outside the US where there twelve to thirty six months behind depending on the country in the industry and sometimes it feels like you know like Groundhog's Day well you guys are doing regions out there Italy as was announced yeah you're expanding very fast globally can you talk about that real quick yeah it's it's a you know we've had customers from 192 countries using AWS for many many years but they've been using AWS in regions outside of their country usually because there are a lot of workloads that could stand that latency and where the data doesn't have to be on natural soil but increasingly if you want to help customers get done what they want to and serve the broader array of their applications you have to have regions in their country both so that they have lower latency to their end users and because the data sovereignty laws which are getting really more rigid rather than more flexible let me ask you a question about competition you you said I can't members on the cube or in person there's no compression reach out gorilla for experience and time elastic economies with scale when you have copycat people trying to copy Amazon how do you talk about some of those things that are those diseconomies of scale what are the points that customers should look at when they say okay I got someone else is talking cloud Amazon's got years of experience ahead of the competition more services what do you talk about what do you point to you it's not about slimming the competition but what is the diseconomy of scale to try to match the trajectory of Amazon yeah it's it's a bunch of things you know first of all it's operational performance you know a lot of the hardest lessons you learn and operating of scale only happen when you get to that level of scale and you know there's some events that we see sometimes elsewhere we look at that and then we read the post-mortem we say oh yeah 2011 you know we remember they went through that I don't wish it on anybody but when you have a business at several times larger than the next or providers combined you just said a different level of scale and you've learned lessons earlier I also think that the reason that we continue to have both so much more functionality and innovate at a faster clip and seem to get capabilities that customers want is because we have so many more customers than anybody else you know a lot of times and this is happening all week to where customers will say to me I can't believe that you knew that I wanted that and I always say it's because you told us yeah it's not like we're Nostradamus you've told us that and so when you have so many more customers and when they feel free to give you feedback and when you've built good mechanisms like we have to get that feedback from the field to the product builders it means there's this real flywheel of getting you know getting more customers leads to more feedback leads to more features leads to better functionality where there's a network effect from being on the platform with all those other customers and all those industries I wonder if you could add some color to a premise that we've put forth on your edge strategy so what you guys you know we do a lot of these shows and a lot of the IOT and edge strategies that we've seen from traditional IT players what you call the old guard have fallen flat in our opinion because it's a top-down approach it reminds us of the Windows Phone it just didn't work and it's not going to work as their operations technologies people we see what you've announced here as a Bottoms Up approach you developing an application platform to build secure and manage apps for those folks right at the edge I wonder if you could add some color to that and some thoughts on your edge strategy yeah I mean again for us if we don't have some top-down strategy that you know that I think is grandiose it's just what customers want and so we have so many customers who have all these devices at the edge and all these assets at the edge and they said to us well the first problem I have I want to get this data into the cloud and then I want to do analytics item we say ok well how can we help they say well the first thing is I don't even know how to translate this data from the device protocol to just being able to operate in the cloud so that's the first problem we go solve well then people say ok now I can get it in but I actually I need security like you know if you look at the amount of security options for these edge devices it's a new field you know let that dine attack that took a lot of the internet down a couple years ago came from you know a device on the edge and so that's why you know we built you know a security capability and people say well okay now you've made it so I can run devices but if I'm gonna run thousands of devices I need a way to manage all those devices of scale and we build telling to manage two devices and people say well ok it's great that I can do it and device is big enough that have a CPU but what about when they don't have a CPU you know they have just a microcontroller and that's why we built the our toss piece and you know the list kind of keeps going people so this is great now that I get all this data in the cloud I can take all these analytics actions but on my device sometimes I don't want to make the round trip to the cloud so can you give me a way to use the same programming model and and pick which triggers I want to take action with cloud versus those that want to take on the device itself which was what green grass was so all of those pieces is not some kind of top-down master plan as much as we know that customers have all these devices the edge that they want to use that data analyze that data take action on that data and send it back in multiple ways and you have you have the cloud platform to give them the services to make the tools the right tools for the right job yeah that's the main team yeah so I got to ask you about one of the big controversies that we don't think that's that controversial but the chips that you announced new Amazon Web Services front microprocessors the chips yeah do two of them talk about them and Intel's also a partner a lot of people are talking about this in the press yeah Intel Amazon chips well that annapurna acquisition is Norton they bear fruit was 2015 I think yeah early it really the annapurna team is fantastic and they've added a huge amount of value to AWS and Amazon as a whole you know the first thing I would say is that Intel is a very deep partner of AWS and will be for a long time I mean that that's not changing and we've been a long thought that they were gonna be lots of different processors out there and and different ones that did different things at different price points and so like a lot of other companies we've been interested in arm for a long time and for a while it wasn't mature enough and the technology is matured and we found a way in in building our own ARM chip with graviton where we think we can allow customers to run a lot of their scale out generalize were close but up to 45 percent less expensively and so when you find a value proposition that compelling for customers you need to do it and you know as I mentioned in the keynote yesterday when we were talking about inference we feel like a lot of the world has been solvent for training and not solvent as much for inference yet and we've made training so much easier with the things that we've built in AWS over the last couple years but inferences where most of the cost is gonna be and so elastic inference we think it you know will allow people to be much more efficient in how they use them for use and how they spend money but when you've got the type of workloads at scale and productions that use whole GPUs or that need that low latency where you need it on the hardware of a chip that's optimized for inference they is faster that's more cost effective that's high throughput we can get hundreds of tops on it and thousands to you ban them together he's gonna totally change the game for imprison and so that was something that wasn't easy for us to find elsewhere and when we have team fortunately they could build it and it's the combination of the elastic service of inference with the chip that makes the difference it specialism there so it's not like I mean you can use each on their own and we expect they'll be a bunch of customers who will use each on their own but there will be an opportunity to use those in combination that will be very powerful it comes down to really deeply understanding the customer problem again at night training versus inference and everybody talks about the training right the the technical challenge you got a child is the internet and tells gonna make a lot of money as it stands expanding market banding so they'll get their share the chips get taped out their con a couple year to three year life cycles and everything starts anew every time somebody's building a new chip so I think it's actually great for customers of all sorts that there's multiple processors that are possible but we will have a deep relationship with Intel forever I think so I want to talk about one of the cool demos you did on stage not a lot you did customer did f1 that was a super cool I love that imagery because it said an analogy of high performance competitive racing that can be applied to this play sports anything and the level of accuracy that they need in the real time time series kind of encapsulates a lot of the cloud value talk about the f1 analytic thing are you guys gonna sponsor these events there's a relationship there give us what the picture of what's going on there you have a deep relationship with Formula One where they're using our platform to to do their all their digital properties as well as their analytics and machine learning and it was super cool to see Ross demo the way that they're changing the user experience for for viewers and you know it's it's it's an amazing sport you know it's not watched as much maybe in the US but outside the US that is the motorsport and the way that they're changing the experience the way that they're able to assess what's happening with drivers and with cars and then predict what's actually happening and make the viewer feel like they're actually either in the cockpit or actually in the pit itself with it with the crew is it's really exciting and it's non err to be a partner so you do some events they'll get the cube they're these these big time again there's a tech angle now and everything it's a plug for you to be at the they have one event cloud demócrata you're hitting now new industries I mean this is the thing right I mean it's disrupting every industry I mean what aren't you disrupting I mean what areas do you see that yet aren't coming online to the cloud I don't see industry segments at this point that aren't moving to the cloud I would have told you 18 to 24 months ago that I felt like financial services was moving a lot more slowly than then I thought they should or you know probably healthcare also was a little bit slower but both of those industry segments are moving very aggressively well it's taking longer they're high-risk industries and the digital transformation has it occurred fast enough but it's coming and there's regulatory pieces that they legitimately have to sort through and you know we have just if you look at financial services as an example we have a pretty significant team that does nothing but work with our partners to help them with the regulatory bodies because what we find is when we go with a customer to a regulator and show them a real use case and then how it will be done in a DOP is the regulator says oh well that's more secure that you do on-premises and so it's just an education process and you know I think that's been helpful in it and I'll get final questions for you what have you observed here at reinvent Houston glad people talking so you get a lot of feedback actually to clopped two-part question because I was asked the final final question so I'll just get it out front what are people missing of all the announcements you've had a lot of signal in there a lot of a lot of announcements what are what is something that you've observed that you think should be amplified that people might have not overlooked but like you feel like it's more important to sign the light on we'll start with that one well you know it's a little hard for me to tell this moment just because there have been so many in such a short amount of time and and if we just look a little bit at the coverage it seems and if I take just as inputs they comments and and the questions from customers it's been pretty broadly understood and people are pretty excited and as I said different segments have kind of their favorite areas but I feel like people are pretty excited by the breadth of capabilities you know I think that if I pick two in particular I would say that people are still in the machine learning space people are blown away by how much we provided are all three layers of the stack I think people are still getting their heads around which layer of the stack am I gonna participate at you know I mean the one that probably has the most potential for most companies is that middle layer because most companies have gobs of data and there are jewels in that data and if you can enable their developers their everyday developers to be able to build models and get at the predictive value and add value that has huge impact for companies moving forward but most modern companies with technology functions will use all three layers of the stack and so just getting their arms around which layers of the stack they should take advantage of first and having the personnel to be able to do it and we're making that much easier with things like sage maker and then you know I think if you look at the blockchain space I think that that is just one of those spaces that has a huge amount of buzz people talk a lot about it exactly sure sometimes what they're gonna do but but I also think that a lot of people said to us that breaking those into those two real customer jobs to be done and then having a great solution that does each of those jobs really well is not only something that AWS does all the time that makes it easier for them but it also made it easier for a lot of them to understand that a lot of customers said to us you know that qld be that ledger database with a single trust of central authority for my supply chain that's what I need for my supply chain I don't need all the complexity of a blockchain framework and then there were a lot of other people said oh yeah that is what I want I wanted to decentralize trust between peers but I just needed a way easier way to manage hyper ledger fabric and etherium so I think those are two that people like are so interested and still figuring out how to use as expansively as I think they hope they will Andy thanks so much for your time and I want to just say watching you guys in the past six years has been a fun journey together but watching the execution you guys have done an amazing job of keeping your eye on the ball and being humble but being proud and loud at the same time so congratulations and you know guns blaring in 2019 what's your top pray all right besides listening to the customers what's your top 20 19 we know you listen to cut oh my gosh we have so many things that we're doing in 2019 but you know we have a lot of delivery in front and in front of us I mean as much as we launched 140 unique things over the last six to eight business days and yet I tell you to stay tuned the rest of 2018 we have more coming and then in nineteen you'll you should expect to see more few capabilities more database capabilities more machine learning capabilities more analytics capability look a lot I could spend all night John we don't need it we don't need a post reinvent post you know traumatic announcements syndrome because just to digest it all yeah it's a lot of work looking forward to seeing how enterprises continue to make to to kind of manage their hybrid approach as they're as they're making this trend transition from on-premises to the cloud how many continue to jump on to VMware cloud an AWS how many jump onto outpost so I think that that transition and helping customers do that easily is something on here of course we'll be commentating and pontificating on that for the next year thanks for your time I really should have me and I appreciate that you guys come at regular pay our pleasure okay winding down that's the last interview here wall to wall covers two cents 110 interviews in the books we'll have 500 video assets total blog post on Sylvia angle calm that's reinvent closing down 2018 thanks for watching [Music]

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS re:Invent 2017. Presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Hello and welcome to day three of exclusive CUBE coverage here at Las Vegas for live coverage of AWS re:Invent 2017. This is theCUBE's fifth year covering AWS re:Invent, and what a transformation it's been. Rocket ship growth. They got the tiger by the tail Full speed ahead. They're not looking in the rearview mirror. This is the mojo of Amazon Web Services. They're kicking ass and taking names, as we say here in theCUBE. But really, they're changing the game. A lot of game changing announcements, architectural rehab for engineering. Reimagining the future is really what they want, and they're trying to be everything to everyone. And, of course, that's always hard to do. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman on our kick off of day three. Breaking down Werner Vogel's keynote as well as kind of a review of what's been going on for the past few days. There is a lot of signal here. There's almost a noise around the signal meaning there is so much good content that it's really hard to get a hold of Stu. Great to kick it off day three. Rested. Didn't go out late last night. Went to bed by 10. I know you stayed out to three in the morning, but... >> Hoping my voice can hold out for another day in Vegas. John, good to see you, and I'm really excited. 3,951 announcements since the first re:Invent. We're going to go through every one of them. No, no, no. Werner Vogel. It was interesting because he's like, Oh, we've been told ahead of time, it's not going to be announcement heavy. Of course, there's some really awesome announcements. I hate we sound like fanboys sometimes, but you know, Alexa for business, the serverless marketplace. Some really good segments from Netflix, they were just talking about iRobot. Somebody who I had on theCUBE earlier this year. But Werner really kind of stepping back. Some people are like, what is this, a kinda computer science 101? But no, here's how you architect the future. Here's how Amazon's going to fit everything from how voice is going to be a major interface to a theme that I've really liked we've been covering for a number of years. The digital future is not robots taking over the world, but how do I take people and technology, put them together to really create that explosive future? 'Cause even the things like machine learning, the things that I've been talking to the people who are really in this environment is how are we going to train the people that are gonna put these things together? It's not just something that runs off by itself. >> And we had Sanjay Poonen who is the CEO, COO of VM Ware. Not CEO, that's Pat Gelsinger. But he kind of pointed out something that I wanna bring up here, which is Andy Jassy and the team at Amazon are highly competent, and they're executing. But, Stu, they're not just executing on the technical prowess, they're kicking ass on the technology. Certainly, I want to have a longer conversation with you about that. But they're really hitting some real high notes on societal change. So, if you look at what Amazon enables both at the startup level and the business transformation, even in the public sector with Teresa Carlson, who we'll have on later, they're enabling a new way to reimagine how to solve problems that never could be solved before. Two, they're kind of on the right vectors, and it's causing some competitive ripples. Just today in the news, you can see stories out there in the Wall Street Journal and other places where Apple is part of Stamford University to solve heart disease with the iWatch. Google's folding nest back into the hardware division as pressure because their playbook's not working because Amazon's kicking their ass on Alexa and you got Siri. So, Google's fumbling on that point. They're trying to figure it out. So, you're seeing the forces start to line up in this new era of competing on value, competing on software, competing on community and open source. Amazon has the right formula. If they keep this up, Microsoft and Google will not be able to catch them. And that is so obvious. So, until Amazon makes a misfire, which they have not yet, they experiment, but their solid track record, we're gonna call it as we see it. But calling balls and strikes right now on the cloud game, there is not even a close second place. >> Yes, so John, I've been searching for a word. We used to talk about a platform that you built or the marketplace or the ecosystem that we have around here. Amazon is enabling new things. The new AWS marketplace enabling anyone really to go in there, really could do for cloud and technology what Amazon.com helped do for retail and business. You know, I say, look, not every single one of the features that Amazon had is leaps and bounds ahead of what a Google or Microsoft has. I know you've done lots of reporting on the machine learning and everything happening, even Facebook and the like, going in there. But Amazon absolutely is in a class by itself and it's still, in our fifth year coming here, they impress and they continue to keep us-- >> Stu, let's dissect the competition. Let's lay it all out. To me, the top three are no doubt Amazon and then, way distance second place, Microsoft, and then, third on technology and then kind of, clustered like a bunch of Nascar clusters all trying to figure out what to do, is Oracle, IBM, and everybody else. >> Hold on, you didn't mention Google. You didn't mention Alibaba. >> I mean, sorry, Google would be third, Alibaba would be fourth. But their US presence, they're number four by sheer China volume, but Amazon's business in China's growing. They just cut a deal with China so we're gonna see that play out, we'll see. But Alibaba is a force to be reckoned with, as well as Tencent and Baidu and all those other platforms. But here's the deal, you can't be a pure play anymore. Look at Google, the search engine business, they're milking that cow dry, but the thing is that the business is shifting. So, I think Google, of all the competitors, probably has the best chance to accelerate because I think innovation has to be at the heart of that accelerated leadership position. Two, culture. The culture of solving not just tech problems, Stu. And this is where Amazon, no one's really unpacked this, is that if you look at Intel, for instance, they always have great tech, and they always do good things. Amazon is kind of doing the same thing. They're solving societal problems, but they're kicking ass on the business front. Google has that DNA. It's just not organized into the machinery. >> Yeah, I mean, John, we know Google has amazing technology, really good talent. We think Google spanner, oh my God, that's amazing. The thing we say is there's things that Google comes out with, and it's like, Wow, this is really cool. I really need to think about a while how can I do it. As opposed to most of the announcements you hear. In the sessions, people are like, Oh my God, I can't believe Amazon did this. I can immediately take this. I can change the way I'm doing something. I can increase my Codility. I can make my, how I just do my entire business different, better. >> Yeah, and so, Stu, I bring up the Alibaba comment. I wanna bring that back in because one of the things that Amazon's doing that Alibaba is kinda copying, I won't say copying, but emulating, is this notion of craftsmanship. If you look at the past 10 years the programmer culture, the Y Combinator, the Agile, lean, start-up kind of mindset, you look at a loss in craft in software development. Software development used to be a craft. You build software. We had to keep alumni benched from Apple, I talked about, you build a shrink-wrapped product, you ship it, you QA it, you ship it, but you don't know it's going to run. But in the Agile, you're shipping, you're shipping, and shipping, it kind of takes the craft and the artisan out of it. Yeah, US could be cool. But I think now you're going to start to see a swing-back, and whoever, whichever cloud can bring that artisan kind of craft, and blend the open source kind of community model, to me, will be the winning formula. Because that will change the game on these new use cases, the new user expectations, the new user experiences. >> And John, that's exactly what Werner was talking about in his keynote, is this is how we're architecting into the future, you know, everybody needs to be thinking about security. One of the critiques I saw is like, oh, well, you need to think about, you know, everything up and down the stack. It's like, you know, everybody needs to be the unicorn full-stack developer, you know, understand security, be on top of serverless, do all this, well, look, that's asking a lot as to, you know, not everybody's going to be able to do everything. Amazon might be everything is everything, but, you know, we need to be able to understand, you know, how do we take the vast majority of enterprises out there and move them along? I love, Keith Townsend and I did an interview with Chris Wolf from VMware, here at the show, and Keith said, you know, VMware used to move, you know, the speed of the CIO. Amazon's moving way faster than the CIO, you know, how do we help the enterprises move faster, and it's tough. I've talked, every customer I talk to is -- >> Well, we heard, we heard, we heard Intel saying they're moving faster than Intel. So, I mean, Intel has to get in these reference architectures, so, with FPGNAs and these new technologies, they have to accelerate and keep pace. But I think the Werner Vogels keynote here is kind of historic, and you brought this up before we came on, was that he was not going to do a lot of announcements. Although he did launch Alexa for business, and the Lambda Service is all in on that area, he kind of did a throwback to five years ago, or six years ago when he did his first keynote here, when he talked about the new architecture and reimagining it. But he took a modern version of what he was talking about then, and I think that highlights the Amazon greatness, but also their challenge. The one thing I'd be critical of Amazon is, well, two things, one is, I mentioned yesterday, Andy Jassy shouldn't be putting Gardener slides in a new guard presentation, because they're old guard. But that's one thing. What they're doing with the sales motion, it's hard. They have to convince customers and show them the new way. So what Werner painted the picture of is this is how we're thinking. This is how you should be thinking with customers. You have to reimagine what was traditional architecture, and think about it in a completely different way, which will change ultimately software methodologies, the life cycle of Agile, and hopefully bring in some, you know, value-oriented craftsmanship and artisan. >> Yeah, John, you know, this reminds me of many of the waves that we've seen throughout our careers. The customers, when they get in this ecosystem and they really start using it, they get religion. And, you know, number one advice I hear from a lot of the companies I talk to say, talking to your peers, what would you say? Say, get on it faster, and really just dive in. It's like, yeah, yeah, you start with one application. But get off the old stuff as fast as you can. Get on this, because there's, when you have access to all of these services, it just transforms your business. You can get, you know, these changes in these services, into more pieces of the organization, you know, John, we haven't brought up, you know, does IT matter? What's the role of IT in this versus the business lines and the developers? IT radically changing. Amazon looking to change that model. >> They are. I mean, there's no doubt. This show is kind of the final exclamation point on the fact that not only was it a collision course, it has absolutely happened. IT and Amazon have come together in a massive collision, and there's going to be carnage, too. There's going to be people, Lying on the side of the road. >> So, question for you. I've heard there's some people that like, this is the industry's biggest infrastructure show. And I'm an infrastructure guy by background, but I take, I don't think, this is not an infrastructure show. This is, you know, really about business. You know, absolutely, there's technology. Somebody I love, they said, you know, CES, this is now EES. This is the enterprise version of what's happening in technology. >> Well, I mean, we're going to have Teresa Carlson on. It's, you know, it's all digital, right, I mean, it's a digital culture, because their public sector business is booming. It's not just the enterprise. They nailed the start-up. They nailed the ElastiCLOUD, check. Tom Siebel pointed it out yesterday. And what they're nailing now with IT is they're becoming the lever, the catalyst for IT transformation at price points and functionality never seen before, and it's mind-boggling. Google's gotta re-organize, because they can't compete with Alexa. Alright, so things of that nature. So then you have the public sector, your government, and then global, regional, China, Europe, huge issues. So they're winning. And to me, this is a huge new thing. And why rant on the Gardener slide that Jessy puts up is, Amazon is the new guard, and they're putting up old guard metrics. So Stu, this is not an infrastructure as a service magic quadrant, so, the question we share, is what are the new guard metrics? My opinion, no one's developed it yet. So how would you define a modern metric for who's winning and who's losing? Because if you say number of customers, Oracle has a lot of customers, IBM's got a lot of customers. >> So John, Amazon's leading the vanguard in helping customers through digital transformation. I don't know how to measure that yet, but absolutely they're the ones that are doing this. It's not a product-centric. It's about the mindset and how we build things. I've really loved this week talking about, you know, how real is serverless? And like, well, really, Lambda's getting embedded everywhere. It's not about, you know, a product, and oh, hey, you're only going to pay for it by the microsecond, and it's 90% cheaper, no, no, no. It's about the triggers and the APIs and just integrating into the way I can build things faster, you know, yes, I can really get benefit out of microservices. That serverless application repository that Werner talked about, I mean, it's, we got really excited when we got for containers, like the Docker Hub, we had in virtualization, we had the same way, we could get kind of standard images out there. Serverless application repository's going to do the same thing for serverless. You know, is there a lock-in from AWS Lambda, how much is there going to be standards that come in? The CNCF next week is going to be digging into those. >> Is there a cost reduction? Or is it a cost increase? These are questions. >> Yeah. >> Alright, so final question for you. I know we've gotta move on to our full day here, but Stu, you, you know, you study it, you do the hallway conversations, you're at all the influencer events, how do you connect the dots between Andy Jassy's keynote and Werner's, where is the dots connecting? What is jumping out at you? Obviously Lambda, but what are the highlights, from your perspective, that you see just jumping out that Amazon's connecting and trying to present? >> Yeah, so, we always used to say it was like, you know, okay, is day one developer and day two enterprise? We're starting to see those lines blur. As the enterprise, we are still early in kind of the massive adoption there, but that's where it's coming together. There's, you know, lots of excitement, but, you know, as we talked about the continuum, now we had bare metal, we have instances, we have containers, we have serverless. And the enterprise is starting throughout that. I know there's a Sumo Logic report you've been quoting, and we've been-- >> And it came on yesterday. >> Absolutely. So good data there. New Relic had some good reports digging into this. So the wave, change is happening faster than ever. And, you know, Amazon is the lead horse driving this change throughout the industry. >> And don't forget Intel. Intel's just minding their business just watching all these compute requests come in. I mean, as more compute comes out, Intel just is a rising tide, and you know, they're a big boat in the harbor there. >> Absolutely. >> Alright, I'm John Furrier and Stu Miniman breaking down day three of theCUBE, day three here we've actually started on Sunday night at midnight. A lot of great action, a lot of great analysis, of course, check out our new Twitch channel, so, twitch.tv/siliconangle, twitch.tv/thecube, two new channels, or one rebooted channel, one new channel. And of course thecube.net. We're on Ustream, we're on YouTube. But check out our Twitch and join our community if you're a gamer. Back with more live coverage here, live in Las Vegas, for AWS re:Invent after the short break.

>> Announcer: Live from Washington D.C., it's theCUBE covering AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and its partner, Ecosystem. >> Welcome back to our nation's capitol where we continue our coverage here on theCUBE of the AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. Some 10,000 strong in attendance this week here in the Walter Washington Convention Center. It's just about a mile from the U.S. Capitol. John Walsh, this is John Furrier. John, do you feel the energy of the centerpiece of the political universe. >> It's hot here in D.C. >> It is hot. >> It's a pressure cooker, the humidity. >> But, it's not global warming we know that because, ya know, climate change is >> Climate change is not real. That's from what I heard. >> That's what we've been told. >> The problem with D.C. is it's a data lake that's turned into a data swamp. So, someone really needs to drain that data swamp. >> Well, ya know, to help us do that. You know who's going to help us do that? >> Amazon Web Services. >> Marlin McFate's going to help us do that. He is the technical leader of the Advanced Technology Group in the office of the CTO and Riverbed. And Marlin, thank you for being with us here on theCUBE. Your first time, I believe. >> Yes, it is my first time on theCUBE. >> So, you're a Cube rookie? >> Yes, Cube rookie. >> Good to have you aboard. >> I appreciate it, thanks. >> Tell us a little bit first about Riverbed, about what you do there specifically, what you do there and what the company's mission is overall. >> Absolutely, so I work for the Advanced Technology Group, the Advanced Technology Group works underneath the office of the CTO. There's actually two groups that work under the office of the CTO, my group, the Advanced Technology Group and another one called the Strategic Technology Group. The ATT Group, the one that I belong to, we focus on being the subject matter experts of our products. I think there's about nine of us now and we all focus on different products. Riverbed's grown from a company of being just the WAN Optimization Company to really being the performance company, right, whether that be visibility, whether it be optimization, whether it be network optimization. Each one of us focuses on a different piece. I, predominantly focus on our WAN optimization, our SteelConnect product and at times our SteelFusion project, which is the combined Edge product. >> SteelConnect, yeah, tell us what that's all about. >> SteelConnect, SteelConnect is not actually our most recent product to come to market. We have a couple of visibility products that have come out recently, but SteelConnect addresses the idea that we have been doing networking for the same way say, you know, 1993 beyond, right. We are still doing it the same way. Everything within our industry, whether you take a look at virtualization, whether you take a look at Cloud, whether or not you take a look at storage, everything has changed substantially in how we do it and this brings that change to networking. The idea is that when you think about servers you say, I no longer want to think about you know, hardware. I never want to think about that. I never want to think about resources. Maybe I don't even want to worry about operating systems. I only want to worry about containers, right. Now, when it comes to networking I don't necessarily want to have to worry about each individual piece within my network. I want it to be orchestrated and controlled centrally and what I tell it to do, I want it to do. I shouldn't have to do that. >> You missed a challenged. We heard Vernon Vogel on stage here at Amazon a couple of seconds ago say, I'm here in D.C. say hey, it's a new normal. We had another entrepreneur on just before you from FUGE who said, hey, it's inevitably the world of the future and it's inherently different, or intrinsically different in Cloud than it is on premise with enterprises, so the question for you is, what is the use case that you guys are winning at because the Cloud is impacting federal government and public sector, but a lot of times they have old, antiquated systems like back in 1993, '94. So, they're moving fast to commercialize, to modernize, that's the focus. How do you guys help them? What's the big lynch pen for you guys and that goal mission to the customer? >> Alright, so you're absolutely right. The government has been here, or the government or public sector as a whole has been moving to the Cloud quite quickly here recently, right. We've seen this move more on the commercial side first, obviously, and now in the public sector. One of the very large use cases that we address is the ability to provision for your applications, right. Some of the characteristics that you find in commercial world, such as, I want to use internet as transport. You don't see as much in public sector. But, you do see, I can spin up an application in the Cloud. If you go to your Cloud person and say, how would it take me to get application B, they could possibly come back to you and say, well, would this afternoon be okay, right. Can you provision in hours like that? Can you get the policy in place for users? Could you get the connectivity? Could you get any of that in place in the same amount of time? That is a use case that SD WAN addresses without having to rip up, take out the network that you already have, which is the physical network, or what we refer to as the underlay. Being able to give you that flexibility on top of that network. >> The big thing that customers have a challenge on is that other focus it's DebOps trend programmable infrastructure is another one, so that they want to make it programmable. >> Right. >> So, how do you guys fit into that? Because one of the things that we hear is, could I have develop 'cause all I want to do is have infrastructure just works as code. That's all I need for whatever use case. >> Yeah, we usually see that DebOps is actually one that'll probably be the first movers to the Cloud for the public sector, right. With our, really it's every single one of our products, whether or not we're talking about SteelConnect, SteelHead, SteelEssential, any one of them, there's a RESTful API for every single one of them. So, you can actually go in and utilizing a very easy scripting a RESTful API directly itself and spin up whole environments and then spin them down if you wanted to do that. So, it fits very, very nicely into that DebOps world. >> Do you have SteelEdge yet? >> SteelEdge? >> Copyright on theCUBE. >> It might be a razor company that might have that. I don't know. >> Well, the Edge in the network is huge and this is where we're talking about as you guys do it, you know SD WAN, I mean, come on, why the area networks? You don't beat, you can't get any more edgier than that. You guys have a core competency in this. How do you guys look at the Edge and IOT and all these use cases popping around? >> Well, we do actually have a product that has Edge in it, it was SteelFusion Edge. We could address that in a couple of different ways. I want to make sure that I understood your question, though. Your question was around IOT, specifically? >> Well, how do you guys look at the Edge? The trends right now are super hyped up right now, Intelligent Edge is a big message we're hearing from others. IOT is an Edge application with its Industrial Edge with Genery Censor networks, help with safety, surveillance, all this is Edge devices. >> It still ends up in the end being you know, and that has, we've heard the change from people calling it Branch to calling it Edge, which is probably pretty appropo, right. But, really in the end, what it comes down to is connectivity, right. So, if I have IOT sensors in a warehouse, whether or not I have an application, whether or not I have a group of users, whether or not I have mobile users, in the end what it really comes down to is connectivity. And, we all especially with our cell phones, right, we have come pretty much to the point where we expect our data and our connectivity to be there at all times, right. That's one of the things SD WAN addresses. Whether it be our direct, our SD WAN products, SteelConnect, or whether or not it has works with some of the pieces that move further into the LAN architectural, like our wireless access points, our switching, right. So, you can imagine here, right, I can provide policy for my IOT devices. I can provide that policy one time at an organizational or agency level. I can have that policy filter down, all the way down to the axis point and now the axis point might be my axis point to my IOT or to my user. So, in the end, it still comes to connectivity. >> Marlin, what's some of the use cases or scenarios you've been involved with customers where it's been super exciting from an architectural standpoint, where you guys are doing some cutting edge things. Like, is it more the network size? Is it software? Is it Edge. I mean, I'm tryin' to get a sense of, could you share a personal perspective? >> Absolutely so. One of the ones that we're working on right now I think is probably the most exciting. It is combining some aspects, you could call it an FE. You could call it SD WAN. You could call it Grey Box. What I like to call it is just a combined Edge piece, right, which encompasses both the SteelConnect piece which handles your firewall characteristics, your identity management characteristics, built into that some switching, virtualization, so you can run other products on there. What the customer really wanted to end up doing was they had school systems that, a school system that was in a very far away place and that school system, they were putting in a router, a switch, an access point, you know, all these different little pieces and devices, right. What we did was we were able to take that design and crunch it down into basically one box, right. They have enough switchboards. They have the ability to run virtual machines 'cause they said that they had a server here or there. They have their virtualized SteelConnect gateway which gives them the firewall capability, gives them the routing capability and this is all combined in a box that already has the WAN Optimization built in. So, they get everything that they would have had onsite in one box. >> Is there something to working, you bring up education as an example, but in that space overall in the .gov, the .edu space that's separate and aside from commercial partners or commercial relationships like different concerns, different priorities and yet they're using the same technologies. >> Most certainly. The only thing that I could really say from a using technology, right, I mean there are some pockets where different technology, far off weird technologies is utilized. But, I would say that they are the public sector, schools, federal government, intel, they're all using a lot of the same technology, right. It's when they adopt it. When did they bring it into their environment? And then, what are the special characteristics of their environment? So for example, what I said earlier, right, your commercial customers are looking at utilizing SD WAN to move maybe completely off of MPLS. It's probably not something that we're going to see within the public sector, right. They're want to still use some sort of private networking. I do have some customers that are utilizing public internet, but then, they are tunneling an overlay back to an MPLS entry point to get back into their Cloud. We just have interesting requirements. Whether that be a trusted internet connection, whether or not that'd be JRSS, we have different security requirements in the public sector. >> Well, I love some of what you're doin'. Did you get all of that MPLS stuff there? >> Yeah, I got the first four. >> I want to jump in and double down on that. This is interesting conversation because the whole trend right now is hybrid Cloud on the Enterprise side which is a leading indicator to the government, a little bit lagging on that, so whatever that translates to in terms of Hybrid or Legacy, it's going to be somewhat similar, I believe. But, really multi-Cloud is a trend that people are talking about. It's super hyped up but it's not yet real. The thing that's holding multi-Cloud back not multi-Cloud in the sense I got to workload over hear and a workload over there, I'm talking about moving resources around the network, data, compute, what not, is latency, huge problem. You mentioned MPLS and all this tunneling, there's still the latency problem of how do you get the laws of physics down to the point where you can actually have those kinds of latencies? What is Riverbed doing? Can you share some insights to that direction 'cause that's the holy grail right now. That's the last hurdle. Then, well getting all the silicons is still the final hurdle, but latency's critical. >> So, problem number one there, right. Even if it is Cloud to Cloud in that example, right, is first how do I get a WAN Optimization device, something that can optimize that traffic for me. Something that can affect my latency for me into that environment. Riverbed has worked tirelessly to get that in there right. But, to your point, you can't change how an electron flies, right. The speed of light is the speed of light. You're not going to get an electron to move any faster. So, what Riverbed developed that's still very relevant today is the ability to, instead of change your latency, mitigate the negative affects of your latency, right. So, if I. >> Or work around it. >> Absolutely, and you can do that at the application level, absolutely, program around it, but there are a lot of protocols out there that aren't necessarily optimized for that longer latency environment, right. So, what we do is, or the adage is, the trip never taken, right, the shortest trip. So, if I have to, not to get into the weeds or anything like that, but if I have to make a thousand round trips to accomplish something, right, and I could put something in there that understands what I was getting, right, that data that I was getting each one of those times and I can take less trips, well then, that just made that faster. So, if I have a thousand round trips and it takes a minute to do, and now I can do ten round trips and it only took ten seconds, or six seconds if we're doing the math right. >> It's kind of like here in D.C., you're local. I noticed that coming from Dulles Airport they have Sirius pricing on the toll roads. That's basically private networking right there. >> That's right. >> These cost path routing opposed to the other side. I was in the, you know. >> Marlin was more describing my trips to the hardware store on the weekends, a thousand round trips, be a lot more economical. But you're right, it is private networking. >> If you're off the road, you're off the packets aren't on the network it saves some room for someone else. >> More traffic, you hear more traffic at the higher speeds. >> You actually could. So, you get two benefits. One is the increase of speed, but the other is the perceived capacity increase of your network. And, we accomplish these things through compression which is really, really simple. I think compression is a must, right. But, through our data duplication. Data duplication is I've seen these patterns before and it's a byte level. We're not talking about an object. I haven't seen a file. No, I've seen these byte level patterns before, I don't need to resend them. And, in traditional network or traditional applications you see pretty much in any organization, right, you typically can get somewhere between 50 and 80, if not sometimes 90% reduction total in traffic. >> My final question before we wrap up this segment here is, Share with the folks, take a minute to talk to the audience about what you're doing with Riverbed at the show and what they should know about the current Riverbed. I know you've guys trying a transformation of yourselves, give a quick plug. Go ahead. >> Absolutely. So, what we're specifically doing here or one of the pieces that is a differentiator for us and our SD WAN is, we went ahead and we thought why couldn't we make that an AWSPPC or a Cloud instance one of my Edge sites, right, connecting into the Cloud, there's many different ways to do it, but why couldn't we make a very simple way of doing that? Why couldn't I take the technology that I'm already putting in place at my data centers, I'm already putting in place at my branch offices, why can't I utilize that to create a secure connection into my BBCs. And, to your point, actually earlier one of the things that's also interesting was Cloud to Cloud. Why couldn't I take that same technology and connect multiple Clouds? Whether they be private Cloud or two public Clouds or connect them all together and take the best of all worlds, right, the best from each and make the best infrastructure that I possibly can. So, what we're showing off here from a SteelConnect perspective is our ability to do that. I can take an AWSVPC, actually I can take all, I think there's 16 regions within AWS and I can interconnect them in less than 10 minutes with the click of a button. And, then back into my infrastructure. So, that and then we also have brought Eternity, which is one of our visibility products that is basically rounded out on our visibility play within the market. We have the network. We have the app. We have the database. Now, we have the end users computer. >> Alright, well, if you could interconnect me to my home in 10 minutes I'm a client. I'd be sold, I'd be all over it. >> I'm going to be in the same traffic as you later. >> I'm not that far from here, but it might as well be another day. Marlin, thanks for the time. >> Absolutely, my pleasure. >> Good to have you on theCUBE, alright. >> Thanks, hope we get to do it again. >> Riverbed has joined us here on theCUBE. We'll be live with more from Washington D.C. right after this.

why from Las Vegas Nevada it's the queue covers AWS reinvent 2016 brought to you by AWS and its ecosystem partners now here your host John Fourier and Stu Mittleman he welcome back everyone we are here live in Las Vegas for Amazon Web Services AWS reinvent 2016 their annual user developer conference I'm John furry with silicon angle Joe and Mike Coast give me a minute with boogie bond it's the cube our flagship program when we go out to the events and extract the signal noise and right now we have some really hot signal it's Andy jassie CEO of Amazon Web Services welcome back to the cube great to see you cube alumni three years in a row now you've been on the cube great to have you back keep the tradition going thanks for coming on it's great to be here and I wanted to congratulate you on your 29th birthday today I wish I'm eighteen actually you're gonna go that way I'll never get over eighteen okay appreciate that appreciate the merry Cammarata bringing the cake out for the team but what a birthday present for us to be at the cube this year because you guys have celebrate your 10 year birthday a little bit younger than I am but the world has changed in the past five years we sat down at your house and in your sports bar talked about the future and that's all on Silk'n angle comm and Forbes magazine calm but you guys have to set the agenda and 32,000 people up from 19,000 it's a significant uptick in attendance the enterprise cloud market is changing you guys are disrupting yeah your thoughts and on what's happened since Tuesday night with James Hamilton laying up a secret sauce of silicon brows back it's not being touched by anybody else efficiencies scale yeah well you know for us it's it's unbelievable to see how many people are here a reinvent I as I said in the keynote yesterday we weren't sure the first year that we could get 4,000 people to come so to have 32,000 people here and 50,000 more on our live streams for the keynotes it's just it's really inspiring and you know our teams spend most their time thinking about new new customer experiences new features new capabilities that enable our customers to build more for their customers and then operating the services and for our team to have a chance to be here with all of our customers for a week and just see how excited people are about what we're doing the platform I mean you really feel it when you're here it's a movement and it's a movement because it allows builders to build customer experiences much quicker than ever before and change their businesses you guys got a spy nose juice got some specific questions on some specific points but I want to get your thoughts on the Amazon what I call spring in your step for the first time at reinvent have seen some bravado but more you know confidence around thinking a position Vernor Vogel said a Mediate that sometimes doesn't understand things or hey why do I want to get a lower price by doubling upfront enough seeing the sales guy you mentioning a little bit of Oracle and but mainly it's the themes around the old garden and a new way so I want you to take a minute to explain your view on this new way this new environment because you're comparing interesting old ways of doing things how people buy from IP suppliers how technology is coded deployed and this new way where the game is all new ballgame everywhere scale changes in how people buy our changing it can you share your thoughts on this new way yeah well that's a I mean there's so much that we could share in that area but I you know I think that if you think about what's different about a company like Amazon and a business like AWS relative to the companies who've been providing infrastructure for the last few decades there are a lot of differences but I'll list a few you know the first is I think many companies talk about being customer focused very few walk and I think Amazon in every business including AWS is extraordinarily customer focused everything we do starts with the customer moves backwards from there 90% of our roadmap but what we build is driven by what customers tell us matters and the other 10% we try to listen to a customer's of trying to articulate and then read in between the lines and invent on their behalf I'd say most of the big technology companies the old guard our competitor focused and that could be a successful strategy they can wait and see what others are gonna do and then try to one-up them it's just not ours we tend to be customer focused second thing is we are pioneers you know we we hire builders who look at customer experiences and see what's wrong with them and then figure out how to reinvent them most of the old guard technology companies have lost their will and their DNA to invent and so they acquire most their innovation and that can work too but I think in a space as dynamic as the cloud which is the biggest technology shift in our lifetime you are much better off with the partner that has the most functionality that's iterating the fastest the most amount of customers the biggest ecosystem who's had the vision for how these things fit together from the start and then the third thing I'd say is that we are unusually long-term oriented you know I think one of the standard old guard tactics is that when a deal is to be done at the end of the quarter or the end of the year they show up at your doorstep and they harass you till you sign a deal only to be heard from again a few years from now well you actually need to sign a new deal that is not the way that we pursue our business we're trying to build a business and instead of customer relationships that lasts all of us and so we operate we treat customers we think long term and we iterate in a different way than you see the old guard do and you wrote the business case for creating AWS I think if somebody you know wrote the case study today they you talk about the flywheel you talk about the effect that scale has on your business I think many look at it is your scale and that flywheel allowed you to kind of compress margins in the industry overall well you know you know right the next business case that was scale let's kind of say if margin and you know you talked about how the race to zero wasn't it beyond kind of ancho piece of scale what is the advantage that you have with the experience and the scale and you know is there a new flywheel that goes beyond what we've been talking about well you know I think that there will be multiple successful players in this space because the market segments is something like AWS addresses are trillions of dollars worldwide but there are gonna be 30 it's gonna be a small handful and it's in part because scale really matters and in part because the amount of functionality that you need for people to choose you as their primary infrastructure technology platform is massive and we have a lot more functionality by a large amount than anybody else now I think that if you look at a couple of the key criteria and reasons that we've been successful one of them is that we just have iterated so quickly I mean I think that the rate at which we deliver new capabilities for customers is pretty unusual I mean every day on average customers wake up and they have three new capabilities they can take advantage of just by virtue of being on the platform but we're also on top of just delivering quickly we're innovating at a really rapid rate I mean look at what we did in building the no sequel database DynamoDB they would build look at what we did in building our own database engineer Aurora which is the fastest growing service in the history of AWS we just made Postgres compatible yesterday look at what we announced on the IOT side yesterday with green grass and with snowball edge look at what we did even with snowmobile where it's been impossible for companies to move large amounts of data look at how many instances we have and then look at us bringing FPGA instances to the client the pace of raw innovation on the AWS platform is very unusual and I think what that does that creates its own flywheel where because you don't have to spend a hundred million dollars upfront to buy an infrastructure platform you only pay for what you use when you make the choice of who you're gonna partner with is your primary infrastructure platform you want the platform the the most capability because it allows you not just to move your existing apps but to be able to launch new ones and any any imaginable business idea you have so one of the advantages Amazon has had both on that the dot-com side and now in the it beside it your data you've got a lot of information I think about what actually said that's part of a new flywheel that you're gonna be doing how much of that data is just what Amazon's gonna be able to drive and how much will that kind of spread to the ecosystem and your customers is there data exchanges or how do you look at data well we certainly have a lot of data and a lot of models and a lot of deep learning capabilities and we expose several of those to the AI services we housed yesterday but I think one of the significant flywheels you'll see over times that so many customers are storing their data inside of AWS because they love our storage services and our data stores that they're gonna want to use that data and they're gonna want to layer on top of it all kinds of analytics services whether it's batch whether it's you know various hadoop applications whether it's real-time processing of streaming data they're gonna want to run their data warehouse off of it and they're gonna want to run machine learning models as well as their AI models on top of it and even though I think loads and loads of companies will use the AI services that we've released yesterday I think a lot of the biggest machine learning that's gonna happen is company's own data companies have huge amounts of data that they want to get better signal from and a lot of that data lives on AWS and they're gonna use a lot of the analytics and machine learning tools that we have to get more value from it and you want to ask you specifically around the cloud competition we've said on the queue I think for you so at the first main event that we were here it's not a winner-take-all to winner take most the multi cloud conversations been going around and that's been kind of confusing people as well one of my goals this year at the reinvent was to look at the VCS dig deep once all the parties talk to entrepreneurs I wanted to find out from the canary in the coalmine the startups the developers what their their sense was they all love AWS because you you had a great service for them but now as the competition comes in Microsoft in particular spending a lot of dough trying to lure them in through their ecosystem Google mean they just have some tech not a lot of Salesforce these terms want to build their own sales forces and might not want to compete with Oracle or or Microsoft together monsters Salesforce massive commission incentives all kinds of mechanics that they're doing in the day and that product may or may not be as strong as you guys what's your message to that group of people that want to win with you what do you say to those guys on how do you look at that and what are the how do you respond to their feedback and what's the outlook for them because that's a big question of people's mind is I love Amazon I want to win with them but I might be lured by well you know I think if you look at the startup market segment the vast majority of startups continue you choose AWS as their provider and in fact you could argue an even larger share than before and the reasons are a few fold number one at the end of the day what startups want is they're trying to build incredible businesses and they're often trying to build businesses where the idea never existed before and to do that well you need the broadest functionality you can get Native US has much broader functionality with anybody else there's also a much larger ecosystem around our platform so if you actually want to use other software in your business you want to be able to use it on the infrastructure technology platform that you choose and again many more info system providers in the ad avails platform but they also are building applications where even though they're startups these security and the availability those applications are a big deal and there's just a lot more maturity in the AWS platform because we've been at it a lot longer you can't learn some of those lessons until you get two different elbows of the curve and as Gardner has said because AWS has several times the aggregate size so the next 14 providers combined we just have a different scale on a different set of lessons now we also help our startups and we go to market with our startups and we have get in front of our customers we have a lot of enterprise customers on the platform we're super interested in the new technology and the new offerings that our startups have and we continue to put them in front of saying at obviously Google obviously that's on the cube actually this morning Google doesn't really have a sales force now not known for customer engagement they're known for technology and I kind of hinted that Amazon doesn't have many sales guys but you do apparently a lot of simple you talk about the number how many sales people what's the field organization look like and he clarified that potential misconception that Amazon is just a self-service cloud well when we launched AWS in 2006 we had two sales people and in fact one of the first calls our first sales person made was to Tom McCaskill is the CEO SmugMug who has been just an incredible customer of AWS and provided so much valuable feedback and the ten and a half years we've been to the market but since then we have a very large field team I mean this is this is not a small team it's a very large field team with a lot of sellers and a lot of solutions architects and a large process yeah I mean it's it's it's you know we don't disclose the exact number but it's thousands it's it's a significant team sellers solutions architects professional services training certification it's a big team and we're continuing to grow at a very rapid rate yeah Andy you know that rapid rate is amazing to watch because you know you've spoken to us before about you look for builders you look for people that you know want challenges and keep learning I've talked to you know a few friends this week that have joined Amazon and they said the culture is different in a good way and I want you to talk about kind of that Amazon ethos there's you know a lot of companies have like mission statements you guys have leadership principles that are up on your website I hear they are you know quoted quite regularly you know in in daily life and it's you know very different can maybe there's a little bit of insight on that well 14 leadership principles and I think they've been the single most important reason that we have been able to scale as fast as we have and scale across the world the way we have without losing our culture and you know there are so many of the leadership principles that I think are really interesting you know one of them has to do with hiring and developing the best and we are really vigilant about not lowering the bar when you're trying to hire as many people as we are at Amazon and AW is a big temptation is just a lower the bar to allow you to move quickly and that's always a mistake when you're trying to build great products for customers I like you know I'll give you a couple the leadership principles I like one is the leadership principle that's being right a lot and when we first started when we rolled out the leadership principles people thought being right a lot meant that it had to be their idea they had at the start that she went with the people would get dug in and argue for their idea but being a leader and being write a lot means that you get to the right answer regardless of whose idea was at the beginning and regardless of how many times you change your mind along the way great leaders change their minds when they get new information so I really like that leadership principle I also really like have backbone disagreeing commit and so what that leadership principle is about is we don't just make it an option we expect employees if they disagree with the direction we're headed regardless of seniority of anybody in the room that they speak up and say we're going the wrong direction we're doing the wrong thing for customers even if we end up making the same decision we're gonna make before we end up with more rigor and the decision and people can argue too you know as long as they want as respectfully as they as they can in making the point and we're at the end of the day a truth-seeking culture so you know that old adage about two people look at a ceiling and one says it's ten feet and the other says it's 14 feet and they say okay let's compromise it's 12 feet what's very rarely twelve feet and so when you have a truth-seeking culture like we have it encourages people to disagree and debate with one but then once we make a decision yeah the disagreeing commit means that even if it's not the direction you were advocating everybody has to get him seeking argument you could say well if the customers not involve which version of the truth the customer has to calibrate that right I mean from here Stanfill ultimately the cut I mean we try to get customers involved the decisions we're making and we we speak to cus for input from customers yeah and we get input all the time but there are also times when you're making these decisions where you can't perfectly know we're trying to make what we think is the right decision for customers we get it right a lot of the time and sometimes we don't and if we don't then we'll learn from it sign here I gotta get this in but I gotta ask you a personal question do you get worried that you guys might get too cocky I mean right now you're on a great run rate the traction is amazing for me personally see it it's pretty stuff you know proud about you guys do this I'm a big fan as you know we're customer but you do a great work how do you guys not get too cocky what's that ethos what do you guys what do you say the customers would say it a little too big for your britches and Ian team how do you calibrate that I think that a lot of that has to do with the culture of the team and I think if you look at the culture of this team it is not a cocky team it's not an arrogant team it's a customer focused team and we I mean I think we're pretty thrilled with how things have gone the first 10 and a half years I don't think any of us would have had the audacity to predict yeah that would be where we are but I think we all know that the next 10 years are gonna have even more innovation and changed in the first 10 years so that's what we're really focused on and you know one another one of our leadership principles says that you know great leaders don't believe that their body odor doesn't stink you know and that's really intended to say that we recognize that there's all kinds of things that we can be doing better yeah and we have to be a constantly learning organization and that's the way we think about our business we have a lot of management style content on silca Daniel my third part of my three-part series with Andy final question I want you to summarize your you know really well done you had some nice clever confident in there the whole superpowers a bombastic claim with some that validated with some meat good very clever I like how you did that how would you summarize the keynote did the boy look down to what you were trying to accomplish what were you trying to convey what was the core theme of your keynote yesterday morning yeah the core theme really is that with the cloud with AWS builders have capabilities that were never before available to them on premises or elsewhere and with those capabilities or superpowers it allows them really to take on any technical challenge that they're facing and to build and implement any idea they can dream up and you know that was really the theme and then you know sprinkled in there we had a few announcements the 14 to be precise yesterday and then some customers who I think you know I think are really vivid illustrations of really reinventing their businesses and building customer experiences that weren't easily possible before doing it on top of AWS well congratulations on all your success I know it's still early I know I know you don't get to coffee knowing knowing you firstly after after the little sitting down with you and reinventing is about pioneering so you got to be humble and congratulations Andy Jesse the CEO of Amazon Web Services here in the cube I'm Sean for Ace to many are you watching Silicon angles the cube we right back with more live coverage of ABS 2016 reinvent after this short break