>>live from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering AWS executive. Something >>brought to you by Accenture. >>Welcome back, everyone. We are kicking off day two of the cubes. Live coverage of the ex center Executive Summit here at AWS. Reinvent, I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. We have three guests for this panel. We have some bad meta. He is the chief information officer at Putnam based in Boston. Where? Boston People together. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Nitin Gupta. He's the partner and solutions lead. Financial service is at AWS Welcomed and Shale Jane back again for more. Who leads the data business group in North America. Thanks >>so much the last time. >>Yes. We can't get enough of each other. So thank you so much for coming on the show. We're talking about the data data journey and financial service is so I'm gonna start with you, Sam. It tell us. Tell our viewers a little bit about Putnam. That your assets under management. Your employees? >>Sure. So you know, problem is a global firm. We are a leader in mutual funds in the mutual fund business. We're in 84 year old organization. We based in Boston on, and we are known for innovation. We've done a lot of firsts in our industry on our focus has always bean looking after the needs of our shareholders. So even as we launch digital transformation, we launch it with the lens off, making sure we're covering the needs of our shareholders. >>So what was the impetus? What was the driving force to it? To embark on this cloud journey? >>Sure, So you look recovered. The financial markets recover industries. We look at our own industry as well. Things are changing rather rapidly, right, if I may just turn it around a little bit. Last year's letter from our CEO Bob Reynolds, said That problem now has Maur increasingly Maur four and five star funds, according to Morningstar, then we've had it as a percent of total funds ever. Before we had inflows, when the rest of the industry were having outflows, we built a digital platform and we said digital technology at problem is how we gonna view the internal technology department who will help enable our company to go and provide the investment insights directly to our advisors and to our shareholders so that they can benefit from the performance that we're we're delivering, right? We can only do that through a change. What's really going on in our industry is that there's more choice that's now available to shareholders than ever before. So while we talk about where there's outflows in in in our world, there's actually a lot of flow happening, right, So So it's for us to figure out how. How are the tastes changing right? What are people buying would do advisors need? When do they need them and can reposition ourselves to service them at scale, and so that those are the things that are driving our business? For us to continue to serve the shareholders needs. We really need to be in tune with where the market is. So we're helping do that at Putnam through technology, >>so shale in it. And I mean, what he's just described is thin. This enormously changing landscape and financial service is disrupted by a lot of new entrance. A lot of financial text in tak, a lot of different kinds of technologies. A lot of industries are experiencing this rapid pace of change. How do u ex ensure in AWS work with Putnam amidst this tremendous change, and how do you sit down with the client and sort of work out? Where do we go from here? >>So you know, I want to touch upon a couple of things that made you said And Rebecca You said, So no one is the cloud of their journey. It's It's not a destination that you're trying to get to, And then the other thing that you talked about, it's change. So we had in the cycle right now. But there's a lot of change happening at an industry we had in the cycle Where you nothing, that $38 trillion or something, which is a generator, you know, they're just getting transferred from one generation to the other. I'm not getting any off it. Unfortunately, you know >>all of >>this change that is happening in the industry. What is really required is you need something up in terms of technology, a platform that allows you to move quickly on adapt really quickly to this change. And I think that's where cloud comes in when we talk about all the new generation technologies like data machine learning, artificial intelligence, how >>do you >>leverage all of those. How do you fail quickly? How do you test experiment? Run thousands of not millions of experiments and see what will work in what will not work and do that in a very cost effective way and cloud of a very easy. It's an effective way to do it. And the weight of Louis is helping our customers. Obviously. You know, we we announced a bunch of service is yes, today way have the widest and the deepest tack that is dead in the industry today. You know the strength of our partners. Accenture. So you know, Accenture has Bean one of our longest standing partners altar and financial firm on, you know, working with them, working with our partners to enable our customers. But then we're also investing very heavily in building our industry capabilities. Are accounting solution architects? Professional service is security professionals helping our customers answer all the questions that they would need to answer as they go in this journey with us. So it's, you know, we are in this with them for for the long haul on dhe, you know, super excited about parking trip. >>So from our perspective, I think where we view the world as at a point where we're post digital, where digital was to put a front end that made your engagement with the customers much better. But now we're talking about intelligent enterprise, which is to really digitize the company from the inside out. So not only you need cloud for agility and all the other benefits that cloud offers, but you also need to look at data is the vehicle that would actually not only transform the culture of the company but also be able to integrate with your partners. For example, Cement talked about, you know, getting mind share from the advisers. But if you can exchange data, integrate data much better, faster with them and serve data to them in shapes and speeds that they need, they'll be more amenable to put you on their roster as well. So I think we're seeing a change that's mostly driven by the fintech industry disruption. That's that's happening as well. And it is no better time than now with the cloud and data to really help transform companies like >>the's tons of innovation, right, it's We heard Andy Jassy talk about the Let's roll Sweet the Sweets that are available to us. Our job is to learn what they are and how does it apply to our business because at the end of the game you said it's about our shareholders. It's about the value that we can bring. But we want to harness the power off all of the innovation, and we can't even though we've Bean an innovator, we're not going to innovate alone, all right, so it's really helpful to have to surround yourself with partners who have done this before, to be learning from others and bringing in the right tools at the right time, so so we can turn things around quickly, right? This is way are obviously very conservative and risk averse when it comes to managing other people's money. So we have to be very, very careful. Having said that, you know, we want to learn about all the guardrails we can put in place so we can go faster. >>I want to actually do something about what Shayla brought up, and that is the cultural change within the organization, because change is hard and so many people are resistant, particularly when things are going relatively well and they say Why mess that up with the new technology? So how is hard? Maybe >>is the understatement of the week very hard, and as you guys know, you know where it's not. It's not hard because people don't just want changes. They are experts in things that they've been doing for the last 15 years. 20 years. They've bean at our firm for a really long time. They really know how everything works from front to back. What happens, though? Now, when we get a changing need from the market and people want to buy things differently and we want to sell different products and maybe wanna introduce new products to the market, we can create bottlenecks that slow things down if we're not careful. So this is where we want to learn about the two pizza teams and how you can do things faster. How can we apply that to our world? Which means business partners working with technology, co located in small teams, being completely empowered to deliver solutions, right, working with our risk and compliance people, making sure that everyone's doing things that there were supposed to be doing right? How do we put that to work in the financial service is industry. So where we're learning as we go, we're learning to break down the sidles in the organization, and it's hot all the way around because we're experts in our areas. We know what we've done really well. But fortunately we have a leader in our CEO who's basically said that Let's transform problem so that we become leaders in the digital era for financial service is so with his support waken. Get the executive team align, and as the executive team aligns, then you find that people in the organization they want to work in this model, right but way don't know yet what we don't know, right? It's so we know how to do things from yesterday. Now we're learning and working together. So you guys have come in and this is where we've said, Bring in the people who have done this before and let's hold a session with 40 50 people that Putnam and let's just learn about what that transformation looked like at other places, so we don't make the same mistakes. >>Well, that's what Andy Jassy said in his fireside chat this morning. He was talking about how he had surgery recently in the question you need to ask your surgeon is how many times have you done this surgery? Because that is the critical thing. And so having a trusted partner is so important. So how how does it work that we're working together, collaborating on this relationship? How are you ensuring that Putnam doesn't make mistakes and does do the right tool for the right job shell? >>So, um, earlier this year, we actually launched an offering. A devious lighthouse with eight of us and what it is is a is a collection off. All of our assets are thought, leadership and architectures that we have garnered over the years, having worked with plants like Putnam and have them through the journey. So we put them all together and we bring Bring that Fourth Putnam is one of the first clients actually take advantage of it Abuse Data Lighthouse and, for example, we have a methodology that is specially customized for doing data on on eight of us. So things like that is what we bring to the table to help eliminate the risk that they may encounter. >>And data is critical to us, right? It's we manage a set of data assets, and that's the engine off the organization. So when we look at cloud migration way, look at what's our data strategy? How are rebuilding the so called you guys introduce the terminology for confirmed data sets? And then can we gallon eyes the rest of the organization around it, from investment professionals to operational professionals who used that data every day. Manager governent Make sure that it is what it's supposed to be. And to do that in a cloud environment where their user experience becomes a lot simpler, a lot easier almost takes I t a little away from the day to day. We don't have to be in the report writing business because we can make them more self service right that will create efficiencies in our organization. Our clients are asking us to do things at a lower cost than ever before and introduce more products and more tools and more service is right, so >>I would just tie with Samantha, just said with your question about culture. So if you can make it easy for people, for example, making things self service and data that's discovered through a catalog, so you have a place where you can go and find all the data sets it available. What is the quality? What is the veracity of data and then be able to take a piece of that and try some experiments with it? I think that would enable the cultural change much faster >>because they are able to basically do their jobs better. >>Yes, yes, >>it is. A is a more productive implement. Will highly >>engaged employees, right? We don't want to be in a situation where we find a lot of those disengagement moving employees and the mission for company. We want high engagement. We own people committed to what they're doing. We want to remove hurdles, and technology is they can produce great efficiencies, but it's not done right. It can also be a big hurdle. So we want to learn how to deliver the right tools, the right products to make it easier for way like to say, bring delightful experiences for our clients and our employees. >>Delightful. Another were another Jeff Bezos favorite word of his Obviously Putnam is, is a real innovator and really on the vanguard of this new technology. What are you seeing in the greater financial service is landscape. I mean, how how what are the what is the corporate mind set when it comes to this kind of change? >>So you know, when we look across our financial service is customer base across banking, capital markets, insurance pretty much every customer today. The question is not, you know if we should move to the cloud or when should we move to the cloud? But I think every every CEO and see io is asking the question, How do I move too loud? And what applications do I move over? How do I start on this journey of transformation? Whether it's a digital or it's reducing costs are improving my risk. Posher whatever that end goal is on dhe, you know, when we look at use cases across the industry, risk and data is with one of the easiest use cases to get started with, say, on Ben Field. They were looking at Solvent E to calculations for 25 million other policy holders, and they reduce that time from 10 days to 10 minutes. That is a, you know, really good use case off getting moving to the cloud. You know, if Indra is a great example. They're very public customer analyzing 38 building over market records in the stock market and looking in on alive in all of the data. On it up with data and risk is one of the core use cases that companies start with but then >>has to >>get more as they learn more about the cloud. As they get more get a deeper understanding, they start looking at other things, like Transforming Corp core applications. Today we have core creating applications, scored insurance application score, banking applications that are running running on the cloud. And then they start looking and innovation. You know, how do we look at artificial intelligence? How do we look at machine learning? How do we look at the new technologies to really transform our business and one of the great use case? And we thought so. You know, a lot off insurance companies Liberty Mutual using Lexx as part of their there was a conversational agent for their customers. But one of the interesting examples I have is it's ah, it's a reinsurer in Denmark, Italy insurer in Denmark, and what they're doing is they're using image recognition from from Amazon to look at on accident in the field and then analyzing that, using the using our recognition service to see what that that actual damages and what the cost is and feeding that information to the underwriter really compressing the time that it takes two from a clean filing to processing and payment to a matter of a few few few hours on getting that payment to the to the customer. So really creating a very positive customer experience. >>So it speaking of customer experiences, what have you know? You said you thought you were in service to your shareholders. What have been some of the results that you've seen? >>So you have to look across the organization, right? So our advisers served the need on the retail side, so we were like a bee to be business, right? So we have to be cognizant of what's going on in their world. They're sitting down with clients and talking through the choices, and they have certain needs what they need to fulfill their obligations. They need to explain why they're doing what they're doing. If Putnam knows where each of the advisers are at in their journey with their clients, we can be more helpful to them in explaining why our funds are behaving the way they are right, that information can be had at the right time at the right moment when they need it. Need it, And that brings advisers closer to our our teams are retail distribution teams are marketing teams are investment teams are investment professionals, are using data and analytics to get information to. We're using technology to get information to them faster, so companies are doing releases. There's a ton of information out there these days. We're using technology to dig deeper into the press releases as well as the SEC filings, looking at the footnotes, really trying to understand what they're trying to say, what they said before and what are analysts should be focused on. And we can take a 70 page document, condense it to seven pages and pinpoint what the technology tools say's are really insights. And the analysts will take the time and read the whole thing. But they'll also look at the insides and they'll add it into their process. So technology's additive to the investment process and really making a change help and then that's helping Dr performance. So at the end of the day, we're living good performance on our funds through data analytics technology, you know, give you another example. Some off the were were very strong in the in the mortgage analytics business and on the fixed income side. Our team's very well known. They've been together for many, many years now. They're starting to use data at scale, and we found that being able to go to the cloud to do these analytics right in hours instead of days has really made a material difference in the number of iterations we can run. So now the questions are, when we do risk management, can we do that a little differently and run more reiterations and get more accuracy? So we're seeing all of that benefit. That's direct user experience, that people are seeing people seeing how technology is helping them do a better job with their thesis. >>Excellent. Thank you so much for coming on. The Cube seem ed knitting and shale. A pleasure having you on. >>Thank you for being here. >>I'm Rebecca night. Stay tuned for more of the cubes. Live coverage of the Ex Center Executive Summit coming up in just a little bit

(upbeat music) >> Female: From our studios, in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this is a Cube conversation. >> Hey welcome back everybody. Jeffrey here with The Cube. We're in our Palo Alto studios today for a Cube conversation. Again, it's a little bit of a let down in the crazy conference season, so it gives us an opportunity to do more studio work, and check in with some folks. So we're really excited to have our next guest. We'd love to talk to practitioners, people out on the front lines that are really living this digital transformation experience. So we'd like to welcome in, all the way from Toronto, the NBA champion, Toronto, home of the Raptors, he's Phillip Armstrong, global C.I.O., and E.V.P. from Great-West Lifeco. Philip, great to see you. >> Thanks, Jeff, good afternoon. >> And I got to say congrats, you know, you took the title away from us this year, but a job well done, and we all rejoiced in Canada's happy celebration. I'm sure it was a lot of fun. >> Lots of excitement here in Toronto for sure. >> Great, so let's jump into it. A lot of conversations about digital transformations. You're right in the heart of it, you're running a big company that's complicated, it's old. So first off, give us a little bit of a background just for people that aren't familiar with Great-West Lifeco in terms of how long you've been around, the scale and size, and then we can get into some of the challenges and the opportunities that you're facing. >> Sure, I'd love to. Actually, one of probably the world's best kept secrets. So Great-West Lifeco is a holding company, and underneath that company, we have a number of companies. So for example in the U.S., you may have heard of Putnam Mutual Funds out of Boston, or Empower Retirement Services, the second largest pension administration company in the United States out of Denver. We have companies called Canada Life and Irish Life. We operate in Europe, the U.S., and Canada. We were formed in 1847, so we're 170 odd years old. Very old, established company, in fact, the first life insurance company to get its charter in Canada. So we were certainly not born digital, we were not born in the cloud. In fact, we weren't even born analog. I think our history goes back to parchment, green ink, and "I" shares. So this has been quite the digital transformation for our company. >> So when you think about digital transformation, insurance companies are always interesting, right? Because insurance companies, by their very nature, they created actuarials, and you guys have always been doing math, and you've always been forecasting, and building models. What does digital transformation mean for you, and that core business in the way you look at insurance and the products that you offer your customers? >> It's been massive, it's had a massive impact right across our company. We have 30 million customers around the globe. Customers' expectations are rising every single day. They want online access to their information. We're an insurance company, but we're also a wealth management company, so we're open to market timing and exposures to the market. Our pace in our business has accelerated dramatically. So just the expectation, the other companies, digitally-native companies are setting with our customers, has forced us to completely re-examine our traditional business models that have served us so well, almost to the point where you have to take a hand grenade and just blow it up and start again. This is very, very difficult when you've got actuarial tables that are working, that are built on hundreds of years of experience. We're moving into a completely new world now. We've come from a world where security has always been very important to us. We manage 1.4 trillion dollars of other people's money. We have traditional business models and traditional data centers, and we operate at a certain level, a certain pace, and all of that, all of that, now has to change. We have skill sets and people who are very, very technical in nature, in their jobs, and have we got the right skills to take us into the future? Can we future-proof our business? This has been, not just a technology transformation, but a massive cultural transformation for our company. A reinvention of all of our business models, the way we look at our customers. A lot of our business is done through advisors. We have half a million advisors around the world that give financial planning and advice to people, and allow them to have some financial security. Our relationship with them has to change, and their expectations in using technology has to change. So this digital transformation is only a thin sliver of the transformation that our company has been going through globally over the last few years. >> That's interesting, you talked on so many topics there I want to kind of break it down into three. One is the consumerization of IT that we've talked about over and over and over, and people's experience with Yahoo and Amazon, and shopping with Google and Google Maps, really drives their expectations of the way they want to interact with every application on their phone when they want to, how they want to. So that's interesting in terms of your customer engagement. The other piece I want to go in a little bit is your own employees. You've been around since 1847, the expectations of the kids that you're hiring out of college today, and what they expect in their work environment, also driven in a big part by the phones that they carry in their pockets. And then the third leg of the stool are these, I forget the word that you used, but your partners or associates, or these advisors that you are enabling with your technology stack, but they're, I assume, independent folks out there just like you see at the local insurance office, that you need to enable them in a very different way. You're sitting in the middle. How do you break down the problems across those three groups of people, or contingencies, or constituencies? That's the word I'm looking for. >> Let's start with our advisors. We have many relationships with advisors. We have a relationship with an advisory force that is almost like a tied sales force that is positioned just to sell our products. We have advisors who are quite independent, and yet they sell our products. And then we have advisors that occasionally sell our products, and everything in between. Companies that are advisors, sort of managing general agents. We have bank assurance arrangements. We have all kinds of distribution arrangements around the globe, with our company to distribute our products. But the heart of what we do is an advice-based channel with many variants. So what do those advisors want? The want tools, online tools, they want safe connectivity, they want fast access to the internet, they want to be able to pull in advice, they want video conferencing, they want to be able to be reachable by their customers, and really leverage technology to allow them to provide that timely advice and be responsive to market changes. Almost delivering a bespoke service to each individual, in yet a mass way that's simple and timely. When you look at our employees, our employees pretty much want the same thing. They want safe access to the internet, they want safe access to the cloud and our applications. We've had to go through massive amounts of cultural change and training and education to bring our employees into the new world with new skills and equip them, just ways of working. Video, introducing video into our company, upgrading our networks. The change behind all of this different way of working has been phenomenal. I wish you could see the building we're sitting in today, that I'm coming to you from today. It's a stone building that was built in the early 1930s, a prominent landmark here in Toronto. And from the outside, it looks archaic. When you walk into the lobby, it's all art deco and beautiful. They can't make buildings like this today. But in many ways, it epitomizes our company, because then you go up the elevators and walk onto the floors, and it's all open plan, all digitally enabled. We have Microsoft Teams in every meeting room. The floors are all modern and newly decorated and designed to allow us to collaborate and create new solutions for our customers. It's a real juxtaposition . And that, I feel, is a good analogy for our company right now, and what we're going through. >> So let's talk about how it's changed in terms of the infrastructure. Your job is to both provide tools to all these different constituents you talked about as well as protect it. So it's this interesting dynamic where before, you could build a moat, and keep everybody inside the brick building. But you can't do that anymore, and security has changed dramatically both with the cloud as well as all these hybrid business relationships that you described. So how did you address that? How have you seen that evolve over the last several years, and what are some of the top of mind issues that you have when you're thinking about I've got to give access to all these people. They want fast, efficient tools, they want really a great way for them to execute their job. At the same time, I've got to keep that $1.4 trillion and all that that represents secure. Not an easy challenge. >> Not easy at all. A few years ago, it was pretty trendy to say we're going to move everything to the cloud. I think now, especially for large, complex companies like ours, a hybrid cloud is the way to go. I think we're starting to see a lot more CIOs like myself say, yes I'd love to take advantage of the cloud, and I'm certainly moving a lot of my footprint to the cloud. To start with it was because of cost, but now I think it's because of agility and access to new technologies as well. But when you move things to the cloud, you have to be very cautious around how you do that. We have in-house data centers that we have systems, administration systems that are obfuscated from our clients by fancy front ends and easy-to-use experiences. And they're running on pennies on the dollar, and you can't make a business case to move that to the cloud. So a hybrid cloud is the way to go for us. But what we realized very quickly is that we need to push our Cyrus security and defenses out to the intelligent edge, out to the edge of the internet. Stop bad things happening, stop malware, stop infections coming into our organization before they even come into our organization. The cloud has complicated that. We're reducing our surface areas. I heard just the other day a colleague of mine said yeah the cloud is fabulous, it's a faster way to deliver your mistakes to your customers and in many ways, it is, if you're not careful with what you're doing. We've deployed technology like Zscaler and other types of sand-boxing technology. But it's always a cat and mouse game. The bad guys are putting artificial intelligence into their malware. We saw the other day a piece of malware coming into our organization through email, and when it was exploded, the first thing it did was try to check signatures to see if it was in a virtualized environment. And if it was, it just went back to sleep again and didn't activate. The nice thing about Zscaler and some of the technologies that I'm deploying is that they're proprietary. They don't have these signatures. And so we can screen out, we literally get hundreds of thousands, close to millions, of malware attempts coming into our organization on a daily basis. It is a constant fight. What we've also found is that organizations like ours are big targets. What companies are trying to do is not steal our data, because they know that we won't pay ransoms. What we'd like to do is spend that money protecting our customers with credit monitoring, or changing their passwords and helping them deal with if there is a breach. So the bad guys have changed their tactics. Instead of stealing our data, they'd like to try and penetrate our networks and our systems and cripple us. They would really like to bring us down. And that determines a different strategy and protection. >> You touch on so many things there, Philip. We could go for like three hours I think just on follow-ups to that answer. Let me drill in on a couple. One of them, I'm just curious to get your perspective on how you finance insurance. You made an interesting comment, you don't pay ransom, and you have a budget that you spend on security within all the other priorities you have on your plate. But you can't spend everything on insurance, you can't get ultimate 100% protection. So when you think about your trade-offs, when you think about security almost from like an insurance or business mindset, what's the right amount to spend? How do you think about the right amount to spend for security versus everything else that you have to spend on? >> That's a great question, and I've been talking to my peers around what is the right amount of money? You could spend tons and tons of money on Cyber and still be breached. You can do everything right and again, still be breached. You just have to be very pragmatic about where you direct your resources. For us, it was hardening the perimeter was the start. We wanted to stop things getting in as best we could, so we went out to the cloud and put defenses right at the edge, right at the intelligent edge, and extended our network out. Then we went and said, what is our weakest link, and through social engineering and through dropping things onto people's desktops and them trying to breach into our network, we got some pretty sophisticated technology in end point detection. We monitor our devices using our SIM, we have a dedicated monitoring center that is global, that is in-house and staffed. We've built up a lot of capabilities around that. So then it becomes prioritizing your crown jewels, your most sensitive data, trying to put that most sensitive data into protected zones on your network, and clustering even more defenses around that most sensitive data. I'm a big believer in a defense in depth strategy, so I would have multiple layers of cyber security that overlap. So if you can manage to circumvent some, you might get caught by others. And really that's about it. It's been a struggle. We have a lot of people who specialize in risk-management in our company. So everyone's got an opinion, but I think this is a common challenge for global CIOs. >> I'll share you a pro-tip in a couple of the security shows. It seems HVAC systems are ripe for attack, and the funniest one I've every heard was the automated thermometer in a lobby fish tank at a casino that was the access point. So IOT adds a different challenge. >> Or vending machines. >> Yeah, but HVAC came up like five times out of ten, so watch our for those HVAC systems. But, we're here as part of the Zscaler program, and you've already mentioned them before, their name is on this screen. You've talked before about leveraging partners, and Zscaler specifically, but you mentioned a whole host of really the top names in tech. I wonder if you could give us a bit more color on how do you partner? It's a very different way to look at people in a relationship with a company and the reps that you deal with, versus just buying a product and putting in their product. You really talk about partnering with these companies to help you take on this ever-evolving challenge that is security. >> That's a fabulous question. I know that I cannot match the research and development budgets of some of these very large tech companies. And I don't have the expertise. They're specialists, this is what they do. We were the first company I think to install Zscaler in Canada. We have a great relationship with that company, and Jay's onto something here. He's a thought leader in this space. We've been very pleased with our cooperation and support we got from Zscaler in helping us with our perimeter. When we look inside our company, the network played a big part of delivering cyber security and protection for our customers. We placed a phone call over to Cisco and said come on in and help us with this. We need to completely revamp our network, build a leaf and spine architecture, software-defined network, state of the art, we really want the best and the brightest to come in and help us design this network globally for us. So Cisco has been a superb partner. Cisco has one North American lab, where they try out their new technologies and they advance their technologies. It's just down the street here in Toronto, so we've been able to avail ourselves with some pretty decent thought-leadership in the space. And then also FireEye has been absolutely superb working with them, and we developed pretty close relationships with them. We support their activities, they come in and help us with ours. We've used their consulting agency, Mandiant, quite a bit, to give us advice and help us protect our organization. And I think aligning yourself with these quality companies, Microsoft, I have to call out Microsoft, have been superb, starting from the desktop and moving us through, vertically aligned into the cloud, and providing cyber security every step of the way. You can't rely on one vendor, you have to make sure that these suppliers are partners. You turn vendors into partners and you make sure that they play well together, and that they understand what your priorities are and where you want to go. We've been very transparent with them around what we like and what we don't like, and what we think is working well and what isn't working well. We just build this ecosystem that has to work well in this day and age. >> Well Phillip I think that's a great summary, that it's really important to have partners, and really have a deeper business relationship than simply exchanging money for services. The only way, in this really rapidly evolving world, to get by, because nobody can do it by themselves. I think you summarized that very, very well. So final question before I let you go back to the open floor plan, and all the hard working people over there at Great-West Lifeco. What are you priorities for the balance of the year? I can't believe it's July already, this year is just zooming by. What are some of the things, as you look down the road, that you've got your eye on? >> Well we're certainly watching some of the geo-political activities. We have large operations in Europe, from my accent you can probably tell I'm a Brit. So we're watching Brexit and how that plays out. We're certainly trying to develop new and innovative products for our customers, and certain segments are interesting. The millennial segment, the transference of wealth from people in the later generations into earlier generations, passing wealth down to their kids. Retirement is a really big category for us, and making sure that people have good retirement options and retirement products. And of course, we're always kicking tires, and we're looking out for any opportunities in the M&A market as well, as our industry consolidates and costs rise. So that's kind of what's keeping us busy, and of course rolling out really cool technology. >> All right well thanks for taking a few minutes in your very busy day to spend it with us, and give us your story on the global transformation, the digital transformation and Great-West Life Company. >> You're very welcome, Jeff. Nice chatting with you. >> You too, thanks again. So he's Phil, I'm Jeff, you're watching The Cube. Just had a Cube Conversation out of Palo Alto studios. Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the Cube covering A W s reinforce 2019 brought to you by Amazon Web service is and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone to Cubes. Live coverage here in Boston, Massachusetts for eight of us reinforced Amazon Web service is inaugural event around Cloud Security. I'm Jeffrey Day Volante. Two days of coverage. We're winding down Day two. We're excited to have a year in The Cube Special guest, part of Big and that one of the big announcements. Well, I think it's big. Nerdy Announcement is the automated reasoning. Byron Cook, director of the Automated Reasoning Group within AWS. Again, this is part of the team that's gonna help figure out security use automation to augment humans. Great to have you on big part of show here. Thanks very much to explain the automated reasoning group. Verner Vogel had a great block post on All things distributed applies formal verification techniques in an innovative way to cloud security and compliance for our customers. For our own there's developers. What does that mean? Your math? >> Yeah, let me try. I'll give you one explanation, and if I puzzle, you all try to explain a different way. 300 So do you know the Pythagorean Theorem? Yeah, sure, Yeah. So? So that the path I agree in theory is about all triangles that was proved in approximately B. C. It's the proof is a finite description in logic as to why it's true and holds for all possible triangles. So we're basically using This same approach is to prove properties of policies of networks of programs, for example, crypto virtualization, the storage, et cetera. So we write software. This finds proofs in mathematics and this the proofs are the same as what you could found for thuggery and should apply into >> solve problems that become these mundane tasks of checking config files, making sure things are that worries kind of that's I'll give you an example. So so that's two in which is the T. L s implementation used, for example, in history. But the large majority >> of AWS has approximately 12,000 state holding elements, so that with if you include the stack of the heat usage, so the number >> of possible >> states it could reach us to to the 12,000. And if you wanted to show that the T. L s handshake Implementation is correct or the H Mac implementation is correct. Deterministic random bit generator implementation is correct, which is what we do using conventional methods like trying to run tests on it. So you would need, if you have, like, 1,000,000 has, well, microprocessors and you would need many more lifetimes in the sun is gonna admit light at 3.4 $4,000,000,000 a year to test to exhaustively test the system. So what we do is we rather than just running a bunch of inputs on the code, we we represent that as the mathematical system and then we use proof techniques, auto automatically search for a proof and with our tools, we in about 10 minutes or able to prove all those properties of s two in the way of your intimidates. And then we apply that to pieces of s three pieces of easy to virtual ization infrastructure on. Then, uh, what we've done is we've realized that customers had a lot of questions about their networks and their policies. So, for example, they have a complicated network worldwide different different availability zones, different regions on. They want to ask. Hey, does there exist away for this machine to connect to this other machine. Oh, are you know, to do all this all SS H traffic coming in that eventually gets to my Web server, go through a bastion host, which is the best, best practice. And then we can answer that question again, using logic. So we take the representation that semantics of easy to networking the policy, the network from the customer, and then the question we're asking, expressing logic. And we throw a big through their call ifthere improver, get the answer back. And then same for policy. >> So you're analyzing policies, >> policies, networks, programs, >> networks, connections. Yeah, right. And it to the tooling is sell cova. Eso >> eso eso basically way come with We come with an approach and then we have many tools that implement the approach on different, different problems. That's how you apply Volkova all underneath. It's all uses of a kind of tool called SMT inside. So there's a south's over, uh, proves theorems about formula and proposition. A logic and SMT is sat modular theories. Those tools can prove properties of problems expressed in first order logic. And so what we do is we take the, for example, if you have a question about your policies answering, answering semantic level questions about policies is actually a piece space problem. So that's harder than NP complete. We express the question in logic and then call the silvery and they get their answer back on Marshall it back. And that's what Volkova does. So that's calling a tool called CVC four, which is which is an open source. Prove er and we wenzel Koval. We take the policy three question encoded to logic. Call a Silver and Marshall answer back. >> What's the What's the root of this? I mean, presumably there's some academic research that was done. You guys were applying it for your specific use case, But can you share with this kind of He's the origination of this. >> So the first Impey complete problem was discovered by a cook and not not me. Another cook the early seventies on. So he proved that the proposition a ll satisfy ability problem is impeccably and meanwhile, there's been a lot of research from the sixties. So Davis and Putnam, for example, I think a paper from the mid sixties where they were, we're trying to answer the question of can we efficiently solved this NP complete problem proposition will satisfy ability on that. Researchers continue. There have been a bunch of breakthroughs, and so now we're really starting to see very from. There's a big breakthrough in 2001 on, then some and then some further breakthroughs in the 5 4008 range. So what we're seeing is that the solvers air getting better and better. So there's an international competition of Let's Save, usually about 30 silvers. And there's a study recently where they took all of the winners from this competition each year 2001 5 4008 30 2002 to 2011 and compared them on the same bench marks and hardware, and the 2002 silver is able to solve 1/4 of the benchmarks in the 2011 solved practically all of them and then the the 2019 silvers, or even better. Nowadays they can take problems and logic that have many tens of millions of variables and solve them very efficiently. So we're really using the power of those underlying solvers and marshaling the questions to those to those overs, codifying thinking math. And that's the math. The hour is you gave a talk in one sessions around provable security. Kind of the title proves provable. >> What's what is that? What is that? Intel. Can you just explain that concept and sure, in the top surfaces. So, uh, uh, >> so mathematical logic. You know, it's 2000 years old, right? So and has refined Sobule, for example, made logic less of a philosophical thing and more of a mathematical thing. Uh, and and then automated reasoning was sort of developed in the sixties, where you take algorithms and apply algorithms to find proofs and mathematical logic. And then provable security is the application of automated reasoning to questions and security and compliance. So we you wanna prove absence of memory, corruption errors and C code You won't approve termination of of event handling routines that are supposed to handle security events. All of those questions, their properties of your program. And you can use these tools to automatically or uh oh, our find proofs and then check The proofs have been found manually. That's what that's >> where approvable security fix. What was the makeup of the attendee list where people dropping this where people excited was all bunch of math geeks. You have a cross section of great security people here, and they're deep dive conversations Not like reinvent this show. This is really deep security. What was some of the feedback and makeup of the attendees? >> Give you two answers because I actually gave to talks. And the and the answers are a little bit different because the subject of the talk So there was one unprovable security, which was a basically the foundation of logic And how we how Cheers since Volkova and our program, because we also prove correctness of crypto and so on. So those tools and so that was largely a, uh uh, folks who had heard about it. And we're wanting to know more, and we're and we're going to know how we're using it and trying to learn there was a second talk, which was about the application of it to compliance. So that was with Tomic, Andrew, who is the CEO of Coal Fire, one of the third party auditors that AWS uses in a lot of customers used and also Chad Wolf, who's vice president of security, focused on compliance. And so the three of us spoke about how we're using it internally within eight of us to automate, >> uh, >> certification compliance, sort of a commission on. So that crowd was really interesting mixture of people interested in automated reasoning and people interested in compliance, which are two communities you wouldn't think normally hang together. But that's sort of like chocolate and peanut butter. It turns out to be a really great application, >> and they need to work together to, because it is the world. The action is they don't get stuck in the compliance and auditing fools engineering teams emerging with old school compliance nerds. So there's a really interesting, uh, sort of dynamic to proof that has a like the perfect use casing compliance. So the problem of like proving termination of programs is undecided ble proving problems and proposition a logic is np complete as all that sounds very hard, difficult and you use dearest six to solve this problem. But the thing is that once you've found a proof replaying, the proof is linear and size of the proof, so actually you could do extremely efficiently, and that has application and compliance. So one could imagine that you have, for example, PC I hip fed ramp. You have certain controls that you want to prove that the property like, for example, within a W s. We have a control that all data dressed must be encrypted. So we are using program verification tools, too. Show that of the code base. But now, once we've run that tool that constructs a proof like Euclid founded the sectarian serum that you can package up in a file hand to an auditor. And then a very simple, easy to understand third party open source tool could replay that proof. And so that becomes audit evidence. It's a scale of total examples >> wth e engineering problem. You're solving a security at scale. The business problem. You're solving it. Yeah. His customers are struggling. Just implementing There just >> aren't enough security professionals to hire right? So the old day is, the talk explains. It's out there all on YouTube's. The people watching the show can go check it out. But I am by the way I should I should make a plug for if you Google a W s provable security. There's a Web page on eight of us that has papers and videos and lots of information, so you might wanna check that out. I can't remember what I was answering now, but >> it's got links to the academic as >> well. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. That was the point that Tommy Kendra is pointing out, as in the old days, you would do an audit would come in to be a couple minutes box that we win this box. You check a few things to be a little network. Great. But now you have machines across the world, extremely complex networks, interaction between policies, networks, crypto, etcetera. And so there's There's no way a human or even a team of human could come in and have any reasonable chance of actually deeply understanding the system. So they just sort of check some stuff and then they call it success. And these tools really allow you to actually understand the entire system buyer and you guys doing some cutting edge work, >> folks watching and want to know how math translates into the real world with all your high school kids out their parents. This is stuff you learn in school like you could be played great work. I think I think this is cutting edge. I think math and the confidence of math intersects with groups. The compliance example audited example shows that world's gonna come together with math. I think this is a big mega trend. It's gonna not eliminate the human element. It's going augment that so great stuff, its final question just randomly. And while you're here, since your math guru we're always interested, we always covering our favorite topic of Blockchain, huh? We believe that a security conference is gonna soon have a Blockchain component because because of the mutability of it, there's a lot of math behind it. So as that starts to mature certainly Facebook entering him at their own currency. Whole nother conversation you don't want to have here is bring a lot of attention. So we see the intersection of security being a supply chain problem in the future. Your thoughts on that just generally. So So the problem of proving programs is undecided, and that means that you can't build a general solution. What you're gonna have to do is look >> for niche areas like device drivers, networks, policies, AP, I used to dream crypto et cetera, and then make the tools work for that area, and you will have to be comfortable with the idea that occasionally the tools aren't gonna be able to find an answer. And so the Amazon culture of being customer obsessed and working as closely as possible with the customer has been really helpful to my community of of logic, uh, full methods, practitioners, because they were really forced to work with a customer, understand the problem. So what I've been doing is listening to the customer on finding out what the problems with concerns. They are focusing my attention on that. And I haven't yet heard of, uh, of customers asking for mathematical proof on crypto currency Blockchain sorts of stuff. But I'm I I await further and you're intrigued. Yeah, I'm s I always like mathematics, but where we have been hearing customers asked for help is for Temple. We're working on free Our toss s o i o T applications Understand the networks that are connecting up the coyote to the cloud, understanding the correctness of machine learning. So why, why So I reused. I've done some machine learning. I've constructed a model. How do I know what it does? And is it compliant? Does it respect hip fed ramp PC, i et cetera, and some other issues like that. >> There's a lot of talk in the industry about quantum computing and creating nightmares for guys like you. How much thought given that you have any thing that you can share with us? >> Yes. Oh, there's there's work in the AWS crypto team preparing for the post quantum world. So imagine Adversary has quantum computer. And so there are proposals on eight of us has a number of proposals, and we've and those proposals have been implemented. So their standards and we've our team has been doing proof on the correctness of those. So, actually, in the one of my talks, I think the talk not with Chad and Tom. I show a demo of our work to prove the correctness of someplace quantum code. >> So, Byron, thank you for coming on the inside. Congratulations on the automated reason. Good to see it put in the practice and appreciate the commentary. Thank you very much. Thank you. Here for the first inaugural security cloud security event reinforced AWS is putting on cube coverage. I'm John Fairy with Day Volonte. Thanks for watching

>> from Washington, D. C. It's the queue covering science logic. Symposium twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Science Logic >> Hi, I'm student men and this is the Cubes coverage of Science Logic. Symposium twenty nineteen here at the Ritz Carlton in Washington, D. C. First of all, want Welcome back to the program. Roger Putnam, Who's the vice president of Global Solutions? That science logic Thanks for coming back and what with programme A first time Rob Gruner listed is this loosened architect from Telstra. But >> Rob, I actually had >> a chance to talk to some of your co ords there, they said. Arav robs a wizard. He's an engineer that does everything. So you know, solutions. Architect. Of course, we know that they're out there. They do a lot of different things and asleep, leased. Your peers say you're somebody that does quite a lot of different >> things. Did Jack of All trades master of none unfortunate >> way? It's all right, don't you know it is in vogue now to be, you know, a generalist. It's, you know, we've gone from specialties to well, oh no, it's it's platforms and everything's going to be everything, so I have plenty of background with Telstra, but maybe talk a little bit about you know, your role in the organization and what what kind of things you're involved in. Since you know some of those trades that you >> are jack of all, >> probably our spies have come into Telstra's an acquisition. So, you know, working for small company, you tend to do everything on. For some reason, I've been allowed to continue to do that on developing expertise around science logic. And that means I've been involved across a lot of areas of the business as we've been adopting science logic more widely, and it's been quite interesting. Process means eye contact, that expertise and then see how it's applied across the organization. So it's been quite interesting, >> awesome. One of things that's been interested in me and in talking to service Friday is talking to the enterprise customers is two. You know how many tools they had, how many they replaced with science logic, but also what things it's integrating with and working with. It was a big focus on the keynote this morning is, you know, integrations with Sam and you know all these various pieces, so maybe give us a little bit of kind of the scope. You know how long's tells me you've been using science logic, How broads the deployment and you know what? What? What does it do in? What does it tie into >> a tte? The mammoth is more enterprise focused. So on. That's the area. Tell Stur I come from so it's really around delivering services to her customers. Quite recently, we've seen then looking in deploying science logic across their carriage spokes and managing services there. That's quite a large deployment. You know, we're quite happy with that in terms of what is going to be doing for the business on the integrations, their endless. So Telstra, like a lot of large organizations, has a lot of different systems to talk to. A lot of different service dis, depending on the operational areas. So in service now is one of those. But it's a hollow of other stuff on, so that's a very challenging process. And sounds objects being pretty good at, you know, spreading itself around. Those >> give us a little insight as to you know, how fast things are changing. You know, hear Kafka and Streams and, you know, constantly moving I've been looking at the, you know, communities and container stuff that's happening, which is which is fast moving. So >> are definitely say it. And Telstra's trying as hard as akin to move as quickly as the market can allowed. So definitely it's virtual izing. ITT's automating II ops is a big component of what we're doing. It is extremely important for the business. >> Okay, so Alps is something you're doing have to We're not as mature as we'd like to video. I'm not sure if you saw the keynote this morning, but they put out a maturity models So would love for you to, you know, where are you when you look at that? They kind of had the three criterias there is. There's kind of the the machine learning, there's the automation and I'm trying to remember the third piece that was there, but you know where where are you today? You know, how'd you get there? And you know what? What's what's a little bit of the road map going forward? >> I think it might be probably our ambitions to be in that the upper end of the spectrum and into remediation, But that's an ambition and I think we've got a while to go with that. So, uh, more than that, I can't coming off >> its interests. So they have that The keynote tomorrow they're going. Jean Kim speaking on the deaf ops. And, you know, I'm a big fan of the Phoenix project and they talked about, you know, the jack of all trades that does it all. He could sometimes be the bottleneck in the system. Absolutely. Because you can't be up. I need something fixed. Well, we'LL go to Rob Rob all fix it. That's great. That fire floating mode. I know I've done that in my career, and it's one of those things. Oh, jeez, you're never going to move at this job because you're replaceable. It's like that's a dangerous place to be. >> It is s >> o. You know, we talk a little bit about, you know, you said, you know, science logic. You know that they position themselves as this is going to help you move that, you know, machine speed and keep up with that. Give us a little bit the reality of what you're seeing. How what does that impact your job? Your organization? >> Look, I think sounds logic has done a wonderful job within the organization. It's it's the legacy infrastructure within any organization, particularly tells her scale. That's really holding you back on. There's a lot of Well, I think people level with Intel Street. Move as quickly as we can, but we have such a large number of legacy systems to deal with. You know, we're looking at one deployment of Sands object. We were looking at IDing systems to kill, So it's a big task >> the wonderful technical death that we've all inherited. So So you know, Roger, you know, this something we hear from all customers. It'd be lovely if I had the mythical, you know, unicorn that, you know, start from the ground up and you know, he can start afresh. But we always have to have that mix and give it a little bit about what you're seeing. You know, about the Telstra in a little bit broader, You know, >> I think what tell us she has done really well with taking advantage of our technology was they didn't come in with this attitude of would rip out everything that we have and just have a magic easy bun. Software doesn't work that way. I think we've all learned the lessons of tough deployments when you try to stay out of fix everything. So they came in with a really gradual, phased approach of Get a couple pieces done where they had gaps. You start to fill those gaps. What's happening during the last few years as we've seen the shift greater change and they've taken advantage of the platforms, nationalities a hole as they go through their digitization efforts. And so as they digitize, they taking this step by step by step approach to you know what you were saying earlier with Rob does. He doesn't answer the question of being the one man band, but they did was they build it all process wise, using software to drive the automation. So once it's done one time, you're not stuck on the person anymore. And so I think when we look at our most successful customers like Telstra, it's because they've had this gradual, phased approach where they're using software rather than single person bottlenecks. And rather than having these tiger teams to try to solve problems and moving towards a better process to take advantage of the world, we're in today. So how >> do you measure success? You know, what are some of the business outcomes or, you know, k p I's that you understand how you're moving from kind of where you were to where you want to be. >> Uh, that's a difficult one to answer because particularly sounds, logic was used in so many different context. So for a certain part of the business, we might say, Are we monitoring the full stack? I were giving customers real value invisibility through the whole dynamic of the business. And then, in another context, we using sound subject. We were just saying, We just need to deploy its scale. We need two one board as quickly as possible. We need to keep the cost down to a minimum. We need to keep events that's allow as possible. Okay, so it's more about the efficiency argument, so it's really depends and way we're trying to use it and how we're deploying it. So >> how do you have visibility across how everybody is doing and getting trained on the latest things and keeping up to date and sharing best practices? How do you manage that internally, and how do you how do you do you network with your peers on some of that? >> Well, we've tried Teo really within. Tell us we have a concept of centre of excellence. So it's really about, you know, being recognizes the business experts in particular area and allowing the business to understand. That's that. That's where the expertise sits on a certain we've done a very good job with that and then allowing and communicating that after the business as well. So it's a very tough asked. It's a big business. We have thirty thousand people so often one person doesn't know about another person, another floor on the buildings, you know, to try and spread it across the biz, since we have fifty officers worldwide. So it's a process, you >> know? I mean, Roger just want one of things that here is, you know, science logic. It's not a widget, and it's, you know, can fit in a lot of different environments and a lot of different uses. You know, I heard of, you know, strong emphasis in into training had your CEO on where in his wizard tat for for for the that the learning knowledge that was gonna happen. So you know you talk a little bit about how science logic is looking to address this, especially for some you know, large customers like Telstra. >> You know, I think there's a general skills gap in is a whole beyond our technology beyond what's taking place in the world today. And you know, I've been in the business for quite a while, and we've long focused on training the operator on how to utilize the technology to solve their specific problems. And while that those aspects really powerful, some of the things we've done recently to go a step further is when we hear similar questions. We started record all of those so our customers could watch videos of how to solve problems instead of just going onto some form and let me type some question and hope somebody responds to in the future. You have read it for that. So we've got a look at a better mechanism and video based training handheld handling the customers we can build out these use cases drives the platform value, and what Telstra does it's really unique is they use the platform less so from a perspective of can I manage X y Z technology. But what can I build on top of it? How can I break the platform to some extend? And Rob is a mad scientist for us here. I mean, could jump into this more. But they've broken the platform to solve those business needs by addressing them individually. And what we've done is we've taken his best practices, and we rolled them back out to the rest of our customers. So with Robin, tell Hsia and a couple of other really great customers were driving a better community and sense of community so less question, answer form, less traditional support, more video, more community, more share ability. And that's where you're going to get additional quality. Coming out from the products are being delivered. Makes sense to you, Robert. Absolutely. >> Yeah, Rob. I mean, I love any commentary on that. You know, the network effect of software especially would talk about Sasser as a service type things, you know, that's what sales force really came out. It was like a weight one customer. Ask for something and wake everybody. You can take advantage of that or something similar. So are you seeing that kind of dynamics today with science logic and with others >> well, perfectly within the Telstra business. Absolutely so by building a capital into one area, you can share it across. And we found that we've been able to then sell the system internally, your internal stakeholders, so they appreciate the value of it and we can build on that. And then our customers, whilst we don't necessarily lady with the product they can. They see what's going on, and they basically then take it on as a service as well. So it's very, very interesting process. >> So one thing we haven't talked about yet, but you talk about data, you know, what's the role of data in your environment is something that you know key to the platform from science logic. How you leveraging it? How's that changing in your environment? One of the opportunities there. >> It's interesting questions. So as the telco, we collect a lot of data on DA. Obviously we have federal agencies who make that a requirement as well. So we have an existing data like initiative on that's very full of moment, and science logic is where we're looking at how we can add to that the value, valuable information and provides, but like everyone else, is a lot of data to collect, and it's an interesting process to try and make sense out of it and react accordingly. I mean, as a business, we were responding to millions and millions events of a day. So it's, you know, it's a difficult thing. >> Yeah, one of things. When we look at things like you know, anything that requires training like machine learning or the like, There's the balance between I want to learn from everybody. But you know, you're in a competitive marketplace. I don't want my competitors necessarily to get things. So you know the software products usually Well, I can isolate, and it doesn't have specific information. But how do you look at that dynamic of making sure that you gain from what the industry is doing, but that, you know, you could still stay competitive in ahead of your competition? >> Uh, >> no. I don't have a necessary can answer that. I suppose my head's tied into really what I could do with a platform and how I can then bring new technologies into the company's. So that's really are spies remind spaces on, Really, it's what I'm focused on. So you know what we do with the daughter probably is. He's not necessarily big concerns. How >> about that? There was quite a lot of announcements this week. The number of integrations as well as you know, update to the product. Anything specifically that you've been waiting for or that has caught your eye, >> the service now integration. I think it is far more advanced than has been in the past. On we have aspect of the business used thinks over quite heavily. So the fact that that's now matured and much more robust and you know which sort of offering that'LL have a lot of impact on the business. So I definitely mean the machine learning is another great thing on the question of then how that develops over time. So we'LL see how that goes. You >> know, Roger loves you know what? When I've been digging into some is the feedback you've been getting from customers and what's been leading toe, you know, some of the enhancement. So I would love, love your take on what you're saying. >> You know, I think one of the things that tell Sharpe pushed us towards a few years back was we're going to build. We already have a data like we don't need you to function. Is there Data Lake? So its multiple different Veda lakes And this concept of how do I move later From one day to lake to a different data Lake lakes within lakes ponds. Whatever the terminology is today the data ocean, our family perfect. And I'm getting to that data ocean from our lake. We have to go get streaming data. So now I'm going to extremes against really geographic here. But, you know, Rob really pushed us to make sure we could go right to Kaka buses and pushed data out. So what do you do with the data? And so tell Strip has been a, you know, an early adopter of a lot of our technology. And by being an early adopter, they've pushed us in a number of directions. So I think when you see a lot of the functionality that we've released this week and we've announced, it's been because of our customer base because of our partners like Telstra, that need to drive the business for further and forward, especially the industry like Telco World, where everything is mobile everything's moving so fast and aggressively. They're really like a good sounding board for where we need to go and how do we get there and and that drive And that partnership is What I think I'm most excited about working with tell sure is they demand from us to be excellent, and that gets great product coming out. And we see the results this week with all of our customers excitingly looking at stream treating capability that Rob was pushing us for well in advance of anyone else. >> Yeah, Robin, I want to give you the final word. You know, I can't help but notice you actually co branded shirts you've got tell star on your arm wither with science logic there. So, obviously, more than just a vendor relationship there, maybe close us out with you know how important science logic is. Two to your business >> job, Critical part of the business. I mean, particularly where we're looking at the commodity aspect of many services, you know, we can't survive unless we can provide quality, invaluable information where customers and really sounds. Logic has been the key platform for that. So in some respects, we're resting, you know, an aspect of the business entirely and Scientology's hands and we're hoping they'LL deliver >> well, Robin Raj, Thank you so much for joining us. Just sharing all the progress that you've made in. You know where things were going? Thanks so much, thanks to all right. And I'm student men. This is the Cube at Science Logic Symposium twenty nineteen. Thanks for watching.