>> Hello, wonderful humans and welcome back to theCUBE. We are live from Las Vegas, Nevada, this week at AWS Reinvent. I am joined by analyst and 10 year reinvent veteran John Furrier. John, pleasure to join you today. >> Great to see you, great event. This is 10 years. We've got great guests coming on the Q3 days of after this wall to wall, we'll lose our voice every year, Thursday >> Host: I can feel the energy. Can you feel the volume already? >> Yes. Everyone's getting bigger, stronger, in the marketplace seeing a lot more activity new players coming into the cloud. Ones that have been around for 10 years or growing up and turning into platforms and just the growth of software in the industry is phenomenal. Our next guest is going to be great to chat about. >> I know it's funny you mentioned marketplace. We're going to be talking marketplace, in our next segment. We're bringing back a Cube alumni Chris Casey welcome back to the show. How, how you Feeling today? >> Thank you for having me. Yeah, I mean this week is the most exciting week of the year for us at AWS and you know, it's just a fantastic energy. You mentioned it before, to be here in Las Vegas at Reinvent and thank you very much for having me back. It's great to talk to John last year and lovely to meet you and talk to you this year. >> It is, it is our pleasure. It is definitely the biggest event of the year. It's wild that Amazon would do this on the biggest online shopping day of the year as well. It goes to show about the boldness and the bravery of the team, which is very impressive. So you cover a few different things at AWS So you cover a few different things at AWS you're talking about and across industries as well. Can you talk to me a little bit about why the software alliances and the data exchange are so important to the partner organization at AWS? >> Yeah, it really comes back to the importance to, to the AWS customer. As we've been working with customers over the, you know the past few years especially, and they've been embarking on their enterprise transformation and their digital transformation moving workloads to to the cloud, they've really been asking us for more and more support from the AWS ecosystem, and that includes native AWS services as well as partners to really help them start to solve some of the industry specific use cases and challenges that they're facing and really incorporate those as part of the enterprise transformation journey that they're embarking on with AWS. What, how that translates back to the AWS marketplace and the partner organization is customers have told us they're really looking for us to have the breadth and depth of the ecosystem of partners available to them that have the intellectual property that solves very niche use cases and workloads that they're looking to migrate to the cloud. A lot of the time that furnishes itself as an independent software vendor and they have software that the customer is trying to use to solve, you know an insurance workflow or an analytics workflow for your utility company as well as third party data that they need to feed into that software. And so my team's responsibility is helping work backwards from the customer need there and making sure that we have the partners available to them. Ideally in the AWS marketplace so they can go and procure those products and make them part of solutions that they're trying to build or migrate to AWS. >> A lot of success in marketplace over the past couple years especially during the pandemic people were buying and procuring through the marketplace. You guys have changed some of the operational things, data exchange enterprise sellers or your sales reps can sell in there. The partners have been glowingly saying great things about how it's just raining money for them if they do it right. And some are like, well, I don't get the marketplace. So there's a, there's kind of a new game in town and the marketplace with some of the successes. What, what is this new momentum that's happening? Is it just people are getting more comfortable they're doing it right? How does the marketplace work effectively? >> Yeah, I mean, marketplace has been around for for 10 years as well as the AWS partner organization. >> Host: It's like our coverage. >> Yes, just like. >> Host: What a nice coincidence. Decades all around happy anniversary everyone. >> Yeah, everyone's selling, celebrating the 10 year birthday, but I think to your point, John, you know, we we've continued iterate on features and functionality that have made the partner experience a much more welcoming digital experience for them to go to market with AWS. So that certainly helped and we've seen more and more customers start to adopt marketplace especially for, for some of their larger applications that they're trying to transform on the cloud. And that extends into industry verticals as well as horizontal sort of business applications whether they be ERP systems like Infor the customers are trying to procure through the marketplace. And I think even for our partners, it's customer driven. You know, we, we've, we've heard from our customers that the, the streamlining the payments and procurement process is a really key benefit for them procuring by the marketplace and also the extra governance and control and visibility they get on their third party licensing contracts is a really material benefit for them which is helping our partners lean in to marketplace as a as a digital channel for them to go to market with us. >> And also you guys have this program it's what's it called enterprise buying or something where clients can just take their spend and move it over into other products like MongoDB more Mongo gimme some more Splunk, gimme some more influence. I mean all these things are possible now, right. For some of the partners. Isn't that, that's like that's like found money for the, for the partners. >> Yeah, going back to what I said before about the AWS ecosystem, we're really looking to help customers holistically with regard to that, and certainly when customers are looking to make commitments to AWS and and move a a large swath of workloads to AWS we want to make sure they can benefit from that commitment not only from native AWS services but also third party data and software applications that they might be procuring through the marketplace. So certainly for the procurement teams not only is there technical benefits for them on the marketplace and you know foresters total economic impact study really helped quantify that for us more recently. You know, 66% of time saving for procurement professionals. >> Host: Wow. >> Which is when you calculate that in hours in person weeks or a year, that's a lot of time on undifferentiated heavy lifting that they can now be doing on value added activities. >> Host: That's a massive shift for >> Yeah, massive shift. So that in addition, you know, to, you know, some of the more contractual and commercial benefits is really helping customers look holistically at how AWS is helping them transform with third party applications and data. >> I want to stick on customers for a second 'cause in my show notes are some pretty well known customers and you mentioned in for a moment ago can you tell us a little bit about what's going on with Ferrari? >> Chris: Sure. So in four is one of our horizontal business application partners and sellers in the AWS marketplace and they sell ERP systems so helping enterprises with resource planning and Ferrari is obviously a very well known brand and you know, the oldest and most successful >> May have heard of them. >> Chris: Yes. Right. The most successful formula one racing team and Ferrari, you know a really meaningful customer for AWS from multiple angles whether they're using AWS to enhance their car design, as well as their fan engagement, as well as their actual end car consumer experience. But as it specifically relates to marketplace as part of Ferrari's technical transformation they were looking to upgrade their ERP system. And so they went through a whole swath of vendors that they wanted to assess and they actually chose Infor as their ERP system. And one of the reasons was >> Nice. >> Chris: because Infor actually have an automotive specific instance of their SaaS application. So when we're talking about really solving for some of those niche challenges for customers who operate in an industry, that was one of the key benefits. And then as an added bonus for Ferrari being able to procure that software through the AWS marketplace gave them all the procurement benefits that we just talked about. So it's super exciting that we're able to play a, you know a part in accelerating that digital transformation with Ferrari and also help Infor in terms of getting a really meaningful customer using their software services on AWS. >> Yeah. Putting a new meaning to turn key your push start. (laughing) >> You mentioned horizontal services earlier. What is it all about there? What's new there? We're hearing, I'm expecting to see that in the keynote tomorrow. Horizontal and vertical solutions and let's get the CEOs. What, what's the focus there? What's this horizontal focus for you? >> Yeah, I, I think the, the big thing is is really helping line of business users. So people in operations or marketing functions, that our customers, see the the partners and the solutions that they use on a daily basis today and how they can actually help accelerate their overall enterprise transformation. With those partners, now on AWS. Historically, you know, those line of business users might not have cared where an application historically ran whether it was on-prem or on AWS but now just the depth of those transformation journeys their enterprises are on that's really the next frontier of applications and use cases that many of our customers are saying they want to move to AWS. >> John: And what are some of those horizontal examples that you see emerging? >> So Salesforce is, is probably one, one of the best ones to call out there. And really the two meaningful things Salesforce have done there is a deep integration with our ML and AI services like SageMaker so people can actually perform some of those activities without leaving the Salesforce application. And then AWS and Salesforce have worked on a unified developer experience, which really helps remove friction in terms of data flows for anyone that's trying to build on both of those services. So the partnership with horizontal business applications like Salesforce is much deeper than just to go to market. It's also on the build side to help make it much more seamless for customers as they're trying to migrate to Salesforce on AWS as an example there. >> It's like having too many tabs open at once, everybody wants it all in one place all at one time. >> Chris: Yeah. >> And it makes sense that you're doing so much in, in the partner marketplace. Let's talk a little bit more about the data exchange. How, how is this intertwined with your vertical and horizontal efforts that the team's striving as well as with another big name example that folks know probably only because of the last few, few years, excuse me, with Moderna? Can you tell us a little more about that? >> Sure. I think when we're, when we're talking to customers about their needs when they're operating in a specific industry, but it probably goes for all customers and enterprise customers especially when they're thinking about software. Almost always that software also needs data to actually be analyzed or processed through it for really the end business outcome to be achieved. And so we're really making a conscious effort to really help our partners integrate with solutions that the AWS field teams and business development teams are talking to customers about and help tie those solutions to customer use cases, rather than it being an engagement with a specific customer on a product by product basis. And certainly software and and data going together is a really nice combination that many customers are looking for us to solve for and for looking for us to create pairings based on other customer needs or use cases that we've historically solved for in the past. >> I mean, with over a million customers, it's hard to imagine anyone could have more use cases to pull from when we're talking about these different instances >> Right. The challenge actually is identifying which are the key ones for each of the industries and which are the ones that are going to help move the needle the most for customers in there, it's, it's not an absence of selection in that case. >> Host: Right. (laughter) I can imagine. I can imagine that's actually the challenge. >> Chris: Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But it's really important. And then more specifically on the data exchange, you know I think it goes back to one of the leadership principles that we launched last year. The two new leadership principles, success and scale bring broad responsibility. You know, we take that very seriously at AWS and we think about that in our actions with our native services, but also in terms of, you know, the availability of partner solutions and then ultimately the end customer outcomes that we can help achieve. And I think Moderna's a great example of that. Moderna have been using the mRNA technology and they're using it to develop a a new vaccine for the RSV virus. And they're actually using the data exchange to procure and then analyze real world evidence data. And what that, what that helps them do is identify and and analyze in almost real time using data on Redshift who are the best vaccine candidates for the trials based on geography and demographics. So it's really helping them save costs, but not only cost really help optimize and be much more efficient in terms of how they're going about their trials from time to market.. >> Host: Time to market. >> vaccine perspective. Yeah. And more importantly, getting the analysis and the results back from those trials as fast as they possibly can. >> Yeah. >> And data exchange, great with the trend that we're going to hear and the keynote tomorrow. More data exchanging more data being more fluid addressable shows those advantages. That's a great example. Great call out there. Chris, I got to get your thoughts on the ecosystem. You know, Ruba Borno is the new head of partners, APN, Amazon Partner Network and marketplace comes together. How you guys serve your partners is also growing and evolving. What's the biggest thing going on in the ecosystem that you see from your perspective? You can put your Amazon hat on or take your your Amazon hat off a personal hat on what's going on. There's a real growth, I mean seeing people getting bigger and stronger as partners. There's more learning, there's more platforms developing. It's, it's kind of the next gen wave coming. What's going on there? What's the, what's the keynote going to be like, what's the what's this reinvent going to be for partners? Give us a share your, share your thoughts. >> Yeah, certainly. I, I think, you know, we are really trying to make sure that we're simplifying the partner experience as much as we possibly can to really help our partners become you know, more profitable or the most profitable they can be with AWS. And so, you know, certainly in Ruba's keynote on Wednesday you're going to hear a little bit about what we've done there from a programs perspective, what we're doing there from feature and capability perspectives to help, you know really push the digital custom, the digital partner experience, sorry, I should say as much as possible. And really looking holistically at that partner experience and listening to our partners as much as we possibly can to adapt partner pathways to ultimately simplify how they're going to market with AWS. Not only on the co-sell side of things and how we interact with our field teams and actually interact with the end customer, but also on how we, we build and help coil with them on AWS to make their solutions whether that be software, whether that be machine learning models, whether that be data sets most optimized to operate in the AWS ecosystem. So you're going to hear a lot of that in Ruba's keynote on Wednesday. There's certainly some really fantastic partner stories and partner launches that'll be featured. Also some customer outcomes that have been realized as a result of partners. So make sure you don't miss it >> John: More action than ever before, right now. >> It's jam-packed, certainly and throughout the week you're going to see multiple launches and releases related to what we're doing with partners on marketplace, but also more generally to help achieve those customer outcomes. >> Well said Brian. So your heart take, what is the future of partnerships the future of the cloud, if you want throw it in, what what are you going to be saying to us? Hopefully the next time you get to sit down with John and I here on theCUBE at reinvent next year. >> Chris: Yeah, I think Adam, Adam was quoted today, as you know, saying that the, the partner ecosystem is going to be around and a foundation for decades. I think is a hundred percent right for me in terms of the industry verticals, the partner ecosystem we have and the availability of these niche solutions that really are solving very specific but mission critical use cases for our customers in each of the industries is super important and it's going to be a a foundation for AWS's growth strategy across all the industry segments for many years to come. So we're super excited about the opportunity ahead of us and we're ready to get after it. >> John: If you, if you could do an Instagram reel right now, what would you say is the most important >> The Insta challenge by go >> The Insta challenge, real >> Host: Chris's Insta challenge >> Insta challenge here, what would be the the real you'd say to the audience about why this year's reinvent is so important? >> I think this year's reinvent is going to give you a clear sense of the breadth and depth of partners that are available to you across the AWS ecosystem. And there's really no industry or use case that we can't solve with partners that we have available within the partner organization. >> Anything is possible. What a note to close on. Chris Casey, thank you so much for joining us for the second time here on theCUBE. John >> He nailed Instagram challenge. >> Yeah, he did. Did he pass the John test? >> I'd say, I'd say so. >> I'd say so. And and and he certainly teased us all with the content to come this week. I want to see all the keynotes here about some of those partners. You tease them in the gaming space with us earlier. It's going to be a very exciting week. Thank you John, for your commentary. Thank you Chris, one more time. >> Thanks for having me. >> And thank you all for tuning in here at theCUBE where we are the leader in high tech coverage. My name is Savannah Peterson, joined by John Furrier with Cube Team live from Las Vegas, Nevada. AWS Reinvent will be here all week and we hope you stay tuned.

>>Okay, welcome back everyone to the cubes coverage here at AWS reinvent 2021, our annual conference here with the cube goes out the ground. We're in person live in person, also a hybrid event online as well. A lot of great content flowing day one in the books keynotes out there, big news wall-to-wall coverage I'm shot for a year. Hosts got a great segment here with AWS marketplace and revolution, how customers are buying and deploying their technologies, DB orbit, and GM radio's marketplace and control services. And Chris Casey, worldwide ed, a business development of data exchange for AWS gentlemen, welcome to the cube, John, >>Thanks for having us >>Pleasure to be here. So I'm a huge fan of the marketplace. People know that I believe that ultimately it's going to be automated at anyway, and that procurement and enterprises as they buy and as people work together and the big theme this year is kind of this whole purpose built stack, where SAS is going to be a lot of integrations where people are working together. You see multiple partners plugging in and snapping into AWS. That was a big part of Adam's keynote today. So this really kind of lays a perfect foundation for the path that you guys have been on, which is partnering, go to market buying and consuming technology. So what's the update. Give us a, uh, an overview high level, Steven of marketplace. >>Yeah, John. And again, thanks for having us. It's awesome to be here, meeting with customers and partners again for the first time in a couple of years, great to be meeting in person and interacting. So we're super excited about where we're going with the marketplace, as you all probably know, customers in every industry are really thinking about how they transform their business using modern technology. And it's not just about the technology that they're building themselves. It's also the tools that they want to get from their partners, which we're super excited to be able to offer them on marketplace. We're about to have our ten-year anniversary. We launched the first version of marketplace in April of 2012. And back then, you know, it was a very simple e-commerce website that builders could come and buy Amazon machine instances and pay by the hour running popular, open source package or operating system software, but we've come an awful long way since then and changed the surface area of the business quite a bit, um, from a product type perspective, we now offer, uh, our partners the opportunity to list and meter their SAS solutions. >>Um, adding to the army base, we allow partners to vend their container images, and we have some new updates I'll share with you in just a second on that this year in 2019 customers asked us for the same experience that they have buying software to apply to the way they licensed data. So we launched AWS data exchange in 2019, and then in 2020 last year, we, we, we recognize that customers wanted to be able to bundle professional services offerings and with the software that they buy. So we launched a professional services offering type two. And then when you start to combine that with all of the different procurement motions that we now support, it's no longer just the self-service e-commerce capabilities, but when customers want to privately negotiate deals with their vendors, they can do so with our private offer capability, which we were the first to launch in 2000, which we then complemented in 2018 with the ability for customers to negotiate with the channel partner, reseller a managed service provider of their choice. So when you start to combine all of these different product type offerings and ways, our partners can go to market through marketplace in an automated way with all of these procurement options. We now have 2000 sellers listing more than 12,000 offerings on the marketplace, which more than 325,000 customers around the world buy either directly from the seller or from the channel partner of their choice. And when you add all that up, we've seen this year alone, billions of products and services sold through the market. >>Wow. What a rocket ship from a catalog to a full-blown comprehensive consumption environment, which by the way, the market wants that fast speed, speed, time to market. Okay. So give me the update a year at reinvent. What announcement did you guys just announced that the partner summit this week? What's the, what's the news. Yeah. So there's a couple of, >>Um, we'll talk about one and then I'll hand it over to Chris to talk about the data exchange announcements. But the first announcement we made at the partner keynote yesterday was around our container offering. So in 2018, we launched the ability for partners to list container based offerings. So their software and containers, whether it be net app Druva, um, Palo Alto or others who are having their security or other software and containers that could then be deployed by customers into the AWS managed container environments. So that could be deployed into Amazon EKS, ECS, or AWS far gate, which is great for customers who run their container workloads and our managed services. But we have a lot of customers who run their own Kubernetes environments either on, um, on AWS, on premises or using another one of the, um, Kubernetes platforms that are out there like red hat open shift. >>So we're a lot of customers just said, I also want that third-party software to be easily deployable into my own Kubernetes environment. So we were super happy to announce on Monday what we call now, the AWS marketplace for containers anywhere, which allows our partners like Apollo Alto or a CrowdStrike or a Cisco to list containers on the marketplace that can be deployed into any Kubernetes environment that the customer is running, whether that be on, on AWS, on premises, into VM-ware Tansu red hat, OpenShift, rancher, um, or wherever they, wherever they're running their Kubernetes workloads. So that's super exciting. And then we have a couple of announcements on data exchange, ed that Chris talk about also >>The dictionary. I'm going to come back to the containers with some really important things I want to drill into. Go ahead. >>There's two pretty significant, which we believe at game-changing capabilities that we've recently announced with data exchange. The first one is AWS data exchange for API APIs, and really why this is quite significant is customers had told us that not a lot, not all of their data use cases were really geared towards them consuming full flat files, which is what we launched data exchange with in terms of a delivery capability two years ago. And so with AWS data exchange for APIs, customers can come and procure an API from a third party data provider and only procure the data that they need via an API request response. Um, what, why this is so significant is for data providers, they can bring their API APIs to AWS data exchange, make them really easily available for data subscribers to find and subscribe to. And then for data subscriber, they're interacting with that API in the same way that they're interacting with other AWS APIs and they can enjoy the same governance and control characteristics using services like I am in CloudTrail. >>Um, so that flexibility in a new delivery type is, is, is really meaningful for data subscribers. The second, uh, announcement that we we really went into yesterday was the preview of Amazon data exchange for Amazon Redshift. And this capability gives customers, um, data subscribers, the ability to access data in the data warehouse supported by Amazon Redshift. And the unique aspect about this is the data subscriber. Doesn't actually have to copy the data out of Amazon Redshift if they don't want to, they can query the data directly. And what's really meaningful for them. There is they know that they're actually querying the latest data that the data provider has because they're actually querying the same data warehouse table that the data provider is publishing into data. Providers really love this, especially those ones, those data providers that were already using Amazon Redshift to store their data, because now they don't have to manage the entitlements and subscription aspects of really making their data available to as many of their data consumers as possible. >>So basically what you're saying is it makes it easier for them to keep an update. They don't have to worry about merchandising that service. They just have API APIs rolled in and the other one is for developers to actually integrate new API APIs into their role and whatever services they're building. Is that right? >>Yeah. And it's, it's really the ultimate flexibility for a developer coming to AWS data exchange. If their use case warrants, them consuming a full dataset, you know, maybe they want to look at 10 years of stock history, you know, using file-based data delivery and immutable copies of those files through our S3 object, data sharing capabilities is fit for their use case. Um, but if they want to dynamically interact with data, AWS data exchange for API APIs is a brand new delivery capability that is really unlocking. And we hope we're really excited to see the innovation >>It's like you're bringing the API economy even further to the customer base on the third party. The question I have for both of you guys on the containers and the API is security because, you know, we've seen with containers, approved containers, being vetted, making sure that they're not going to have any malware in there or API is making sure everything's clean and tight. What's the, what are they? What's the security concerns. Can you share how you guys are talking about that? For sure. >>So it's probably comes as no surprise to you or folks who might be listening or tuning in that security has always been AWS is number one priority. We build it into everything we do. This offering is no different. We scan all of the container images that are published to our catalog before they're exposed to customers for any kind of known vulnerabilities. We're monitoring our catalog every single day now against new ones that might come out and customers actually tell us, it's one of the things that they like about buying software on marketplace, better than let's say other third party repositories that don't have the same level of vetting because they can kind of build that constant trust, um, into, >>And trust is a key cause you can get containers anywhere. You don't know where it's from. So you guys are actually vetting the containers, making sure they're certified. So to speak with Amazon's security check. >>We, we, we are indeed. And, uh, we have a number of security ISV who are participating in both our containers in our containers anywhere. It's one of the most high-performing categories for us. As I said before, we have vendors like CrowdStrike and Cisco and Palo Alto who are, you know, um, um, vending, various different endpoint and network security, um, uh, offerings >>It's my catalogs are for, I mean, this is what trust is all about. Making sure that you guys can put your name behind it in the marketplace. Okay. Let's take it through the consumption. What's the current state of the art with the marketplace with enterprises, you guys have a lot of programs. We're constantly hearing great things about the go to market with joint selling on the top tier. Uh, I think there's like the top tier category. And then you've got all kinds of other incentives for companies to deploy the marketplace and sell their stuff, >>Right? So we're, we're really starting to hit our stride with, uh, co-selling with our partners and some of our, um, you know, our top, most performing partners, they into every feature and capability and incentive program that we develop. Um, give us a lot of feedback on it. Just like we work backwards from customer needs to help them transform their procurement. We work backwards from our partner needs to help them optimize their go to market channel. And, uh, you know, we take feedback from our partners, uh, very seriously. And then we build things like private offers when they want to custom negotiate deals with their customers or channel partner, private offers when they want to do that with the channel partner of their choice. And we're just continuing to listen to that feedback and, and helping them grow their business. And, and, and frankly, you know, while a lot of partners love that we're able to help get them new customers. One of their favorite things about co-selling with us is that they're able to close larger contracts faster because they're doing that in concert with the AWS field teams and taking advantage of the fact that the customer's already building on AWS. >>So I know we've got a couple minutes left. I want to get this out there because I heard it I'd have to add him prior to re-invent. And he said, quote, we don't want, cus customers don't want to reinvent the wheel. And they see, that's why this whole purpose built kind of thing is getting traction. What do you guys got in the marketplace? That's what you'd call leveraging stuff has been built. So customers don't have to rebuild things. >>Yeah. I mean, if you just look back to the very beginning of marketplace, when we launched the marketplace of Amazon machine instances, it was basically pre-built armies that customers could deploy into their own accounts already running the third-party software that they wanted. And when I think about where we're going with things like procurement governance, uh, we developed a thing called a private marketplace where customers could curate the various different solutions from our catalog that they want, because they want to be able to control who in their enterprise can buy what, and that's just a whole bunch of manual work that they would have had to do and reinvent the wheel from every customer to every customer. And instead we just delivered them the capability to do that same with our managed entitlements capability, where they can share entitlements across AWS accounts, within their own organizational, without having to manually track who's used how much of what, and report that back to the seller to make sure that they're compliant with the terms and conditions. We handle all that. So our customers don't have to continue to reinvent that. >>Why? Well, because it's like open source concept. It's like you're building on things that are already built. You can build on top of it. As you guys see these recipes get, or workflows get rolled out, you put them back in the microwave. >>That's right. Always learning from customers and partners. And while we've grown quite a bit, 2000 sellers, 325,000 customers and billions of dollars of products and services sold, we still have so much more to go >>Between data exchange and what you guys got going on. It's not, it's not, it's complex as it gets more and more complex. I know you guys are abstracting away the complexity and the heavy lifting for customers. What's on the horizon for you guys. What are you tackling next? What's the next mountain you're going to climb on. >>There's still more automation we can drive into the co-selling motion. And, uh, um, uh, so that's one, there's more procurement and governance, uh, capabilities that we think we're going to be able to add to customers. Basically what they're telling us is are the chief procurement officers that we face off with. They want to be able to get the best deal at the lowest price, uh, with the best and most favorable terms and conditions. So we're trying to work backwards from that need to make sure we have the right category selection, wherever they might want it, whether it be an infrastructure provider or a line of business, um, uh, a line of business solution and make sure they're able to get exactly that >>Chris, back to you for your vision. I honestly, analytics is a big part of SAS and platform billing and metering and where the data is. Data exchange. Almost imagine that's going to have a nice headroom to it in terms of what you can do with data exchange. Yeah. >>If you look at the announcements we've recently made and sort of our vision for data exchanges to help any AWS customer find subscribe to and use third party data in the cloud. And these two recent announcements really help on that use portion where someone can actually create, you know, shorten the time to value for them using some of our analytics services like Amazon Redshift. So we'll continue to innovate there and listen to customers in terms of their feedback and how we can help them really integrate their data pipelines with the rest of the AWS ecosystem. But we're also continuing to invest in the find and subscribe to portion. Steven talked about some of the automation and we've built data exchange on top of the lot of the plumbing and building blocks that AWS marketplace already had, which was a pretty significant leg up for us, but certainly the way in which people discover and find new datasets that might help them in an analytics problem is certainly an area that, you know, we're going to continue to lean into. >>And exchange has been around for a long, long time. Now it's in the cloud generation and I think you guys have such a great job in the marketplace and this next gen has more and more platform. Specific products are coming out. Partners are snapping together, a lot more integration. So a lot more action coming on integration I can imagine. Right. That's right. Definitely. Right. Thanks for coming on the cube. Really appreciate it, Steve. A great to see you. >>Appreciate it. Thanks for having us always a pleasure. >>Great to have all the action from Amazon here, marketplace continuing to be the preferred way to consume and deploy technology, and soon to be an integration hub for this next generation cloud. I'm Jeff, where to keep your watching the queue of the leader in worldwide tech coverage. Be right back.

>>We're here at the Data cloud Summer 2020. Tracking the rise of the data cloud. We're talking about the ecosystem powering the next generation of innovation in cloud. You know, for decades, the technology industry has been powered by great products. Well, the cloud introduced a new type of platform that transcended point products. And the next generation of cloud platforms is unlocking data centric ecosystems where access to data is that the core of innovation tapping the resource is of many versus the capabilities of one. Casey McGee is here. He's the vice president of Global I S V. Sales at Microsoft in He's joined by Colleen Capsule, who is the VP of partnerships and global alliances that snowflake folks, welcome to the Cube. It's great to see you. Thanks. >>Very good to see you. Thank you. >>You're >>very welcome. So, Casey, let me start with you, please. Microsoft's get a long heritage. Of course, working with partners renowned in that regard built a unbelievable ecosystem, the envy of many in the industry. So if you think about as enterprises, they're speeding up their cloud adoption. What are you seeing is the role and the importance of ecosystem the i s v ecosystem specifically in helping make customers outcomes successful. >>Yeah, let me start by saying, we have, ah, 45 year history of partnerships. So from our very beginning as a company, we invested to build these partnerships. And so let me start by saying from day one we looked at a diverse ecosystem as one of the most important strategies for us, uh, both to bring innovation to customers and also to drive growth. And so we're looking to build that environment even today. So 45 years later, focused on how do we zero in on the business outcomes that matter most to >>customers usually >>identified by the industry that they're serving and so really building an ecosystem that helps us serve >>both the >>customers and the business outcomes They're looking to drive. And so we're building that ecosystem of SVs on the Microsoft cloud and focused on bringing that innovation as a platform provider through those companies. >>Okay, so let's let's stay on that for a moment if we can. I mean, you work with a lot of I s V s and you got a big portfolio of your own solutions. Now, sometimes they overlap with the I S V offerings of your partners. How do you balance the focus on, you know, First Party Solutions and third party I E S p Partner Solutions? >>Yeah, First and foremost, we're a platform company. So our whole intent is to bring value to that partner ecosystem. While sometimes that means we may have offers in market day that may complement one another. Our focus is really on serving the customer. So anytime we see that we're looking at what is the most desired outcome for a customer driving innovation into that into that specific business requirements? So for us, it's always focusing on the customer and really zeroing in on making sure that we're solving their business problems. Sometimes we do that together with partners like snowflakes. Sometimes that means we do that on our own. But the key for us is really deeply understanding what's important customer and then bringing the best of the Microsoft and Snowflakes scenarios to bear. >>You know, Casey, I appreciate that a lot of times people say Dave, don't Don't ask me that question. It's kind of uncomfortable. So, Colleen, I wanna bring you into the discussion. How does snowflake view this dynamic? Where you simultaneously partnering and competing sometimes with some of the big cloud companies on the planet? >>Yeah, Dave, I think it's a great question. And really, in this era of innovation, so many large companies, like Microsoft are so diverse in their products, said it's almost impossible for them to not have some overlap with most of their ecosystem. But I think Casey said it really well to long as we stay laser focused on the customer. Um, and there are a lot of very happy snowflake customers and happy as your customers, we really win together. And I think we're finding ways in which we're working better and better together, uh, from a technology standpoint and from a field standpoint. And customers want to see us come together and bring best of breed solution. So, um, I think we're doing a lot better, and I'm looking forward to our future to >>So Casey Snowflake, you know, they're really growing. They got a pretty large footprint on on Azure because they're gonna hundreds of customers here, you know, that are active on that platform. I >>wonder if you >>could talk about the product integration points that you kind of completed initially on then kind of what's on the horizon that you see is particularly important for your joint customers. >>You have to say so. One of the things that I love about this partnership is that while we start with what the customer wants, we bring that back into the engineering level relationship that we have between the two companies. And so that's produced some pretty, incredibly rich functionality together. So let me start by saying, You know, we've got eight azure regions today, with nine coming on soon on. So we have a geographic diversity that is important for many of our customers. We've also got a Siris of engineering level integrations that we've already built. So that's functionality for Azure privately because well, as integration between power bi I, Azure data factory and Azure data, like all of this back again to serve the business outcomes that are required for our customers. So it's this level of integration that I think really speaks to the power of the partnership, so were intently focused on the democratization of data. So we know that snowflake is the premier partner to help us do that so getting that right >>is >>key to enabling high concurrency use cases with large numbers of businesses, users coming together and getting the performance they expect. >>I appreciate that case because a lot of times, you know, look at the press release. Sometimes we laugh. We call them Barney deals. You know I love you, You love me. But I listened for, you know, the word engineering and integration. Those air sort of important triggers Colleen or Casey, too. But I want to start with Colleen. Anything you would add to that. Are there things that you guys have worked on together that you're particularly proud of, or maybe that have push the envelope and enabled new capabilities for customers Would have given you great feedback Any any examples you can share >>Great question on beer, definitely focusing on making sure stability is a core value for both of us, and so that what we offer that our customers can trust eyes going to work well and be dependable. So that's a key focus for us. Um, we're also looking at How can we advance into the future? What can we do around machine learning? It's a an area that's really exciting for a lot of the sea XO level leadership at our customers. So we're certainly focused on that. Um, and also looking at power bi I and the visualization of how do we bring these solutions together as well? I'd also say, at the same time, we're trying to make the buying experience frictionless for our customers. So we're also leveraging and innovating with azure is market place so that our customers can easily acquire Snowflake together with azure. And even that is being helpful for our customers. Casey, what are your thoughts too? Let me add to >>that. I think the work that we've done with power bi I is >>pretty >>pretty powerful. I mean, ultimately, we've got customers out there that are looking to better visualize the data better informed decisions that they're making so as much as a i n m l. And the inherent power of the data that's being stored within snowflake, um is important in and of itself. How r b I really unlocks that and helps drive better decisions, better visualization. Onda helped drive to decision outcomes that are important to the customer. So I love the work that we're doing on power by on stuff >>like, Yeah, >>you guys both mentioned, you know, machine learning. I mean, there really are an ecosystem of tools. And the thing to me about azure, it's It's all about Optionality you mentioned earlier case. You guys are a platform. So, you know, customer A may want to use power. Bi I. Another custom might want to use another visualization tool. Find from a platform perspective. You really don't care, do you? So I wonder, Colleen, if we could and again maybe case you can chime in afterwards. You guys, obviously everybody these days, but you particularly focused on customer outcomes. That's the sort of starting point and snowflake for sure, is built pretty significant experience Working with large enterprises and working along the side alongside of Microsoft. You get other partners in your experience what a customer is really looking for out of the two joint companies when they engage with Snowflake and Microsoft, so that one plus one is, you know, much bigger than 2 may be calling. You could start. >>Yeah, I definitely think that what our customers are looking for is both trust and seamlessness. They just want the technology to work. The beauty of snowflake is our ease of use. Um, so many customers have questions about their business. More so now in this guy, um, you know, pandemic world than ever before. So the seamlessness, the ease of use, um, the frictionless. All of these things really matter to our joint customers and seeing our teams come together to in the field to show. Here's how Snowflake and Azure are better together, um, in your local area and having examples of customers where we've had wind winds, which I'd say, Casey, we're getting more and more of those every day, frankly, so pretty exciting times Onda having our sales teams work as a partnership. Even though we compete, we know where we play well together on guy. See us doing that over and over again, more and more around the world to which is really important as snowflake pushes forward, you know, beyond the North America, geography ease into stronger and stronger in the global, um, regions where frankly, Microsoft had a long, storied history at, so that's very exciting, especially in Europe and Asia. >>Okay, so anything you would add to that >>Yeah, >>calling it's well said, I think it ultimately, what customers are looking for is that when our two companies come together, we bring new innovation, new ideas, new ways to solve old problems. And so I think what I love about this partnership is ultimately when we come together, whether it's engineering teams coming together to build new product, whether it's our sales and marketing teams out in front of the customers across that spectrum, I think customers looking for US toe help bring new ideas. And I love the fact that we've engineered this partnership to do to do just that. But ultimately we're focused on how do we come together and build something new and different? And I think we can solve some of the most challenging problems with the power of the data on the innovation that we're bringing to the table. >>I mean, you know, Casey, I mean, everybody is really quite an odd and amazed that Microsoft's transformation, um and really openness and willingness to really, really change and lean into some of the big waves. I >>wonder if you >>could talk about your multi platform strategy and what problems that you're solving in conjunction with snowflake. >>Yeah, let me start by saying, You know, I think as much as we appreciate that that feedback on on the progress that we've been striving for. I mean, we're still learning every day, looking for new opportunities to learn from customers from partners. And so, ah, lot of what you see on the outside is the result of a really focused culture really focusing on what's important to our customers focusing on how do we build diversity and inclusion to everything we do, whether that's within Microsoft with our partners or customers on. Ultimately, how do we show up? Aziz? One Microsoft. I call one Microsoft kind of the partners gift. It's ultimately how do our companies show up together? So I think if you look multi platform, we have the same concept, right? We have the Microsoft cloud that we're offering out in the marketplace. The Microsoft Cloud consists of what we're serving up. A Sfar is the platform consists what we're serving up for data and AI modern workplace on business applications. And so this multi cloud strategy for us is really focused on how do we bring innovation across each of the solution areas that matter most to customers And so I see, Really, the power of the snowflake partnership playing in there. >>Awesome calling. Are there any examples you can share Where, you know, maybe this partnership is unlocked. The customer opportunity or unique value? >>Yeah. I can't speak about the customer specific, but what I can do and say is, um you know, Casey and I play very corporate roles in terms of we're thinking about the long term partnership. We're driving the strategy. Um, hey, look, we'll get called in. We're working a deal right now. It's almost close of, uh, of the quarter for us who are literally working on an opportunity right now. How can we win together? How can we be competitive? The customers? The CEO has asked us to come together to work out that solution. Um, very large, well known brand and were able to get up to the very senior levels of our customer era companies very quickly to make decisions on what do we need to do to be better and stronger together? And, uh um, that's really what a partnership is about. You could do the long term plans in the strategic, and you can have great products But when you're executives, come pick up the phone and call each other toe work on a particular deal for particular customers need, uh, I think that's where the power of the partnership really comes together. And that's where we're at. And that's been a growth opportunity for us. This year's wasn't necessarily where we were at. And I really have to thank Casey for that. He's done a ton, Um, you know, getting us the right glue between our executives, making sure the relationships air there and making sure the trust is there. So when our customers needs to come together, that dialogue and the that shared addiction of putting customers first is there between both companies. So thank you, Casey. >>No, thanks. Coming. Feeling's mutual. >>Well, I think this is key because as a cent upfront, we've gone from sort of very product focused the platform focus. And now we're tapping the power of the ecosystem. That's not always easy to get all the parts moving together. But we live in this. A P I economy you could say is, Hey, I'm I'm a company. Everything is gonna be homogeneous. Everything is gonna be my stack and maybe That's one way to solve the problem. But really, that's not how customers want to solve the problem. Okay, so I'll give you last word. >>Yeah, let me just end by saying, You know, first off, the cultures between our two companies couldn't be more well aligned. So I think ultimately, when you ask yourself the question, what do we do? The best show up in front of our customers. It is focused on there. This is outcomes focused on the things that matter most to them. And this partnership will show up well, I think ultimately our greatest opportunity eyes to tap into that need that interest on. I couldn't be happier about the partnership on the fact that we are so well aligned. So thank you for that. >>Well, guys, thanks very much for coming in the Cube and unpacking some of the really critical aspects of the ecosystem was really a pleasure having you. >>Thank you so much for having us. Alright, >>Keep it right there. Everybody, this is Dave Volonte for the Cube were powering on with data Cloud Summit 2020. Keep it right there.

>>from around the globe. It's the queue with digital coverage of AWS Public sector online brought to you by Amazon Web services. >>Hi, I'm stupid man. And this is the Cube's coverage of AWS Public Sectors Summit Online. We've done this show for many years. Of course, this this time it's online rather than in person in the District of Washington D. C Happy to welcome to the program First time guest. Very good partner of Aws is from Salesforce is Casey Coleman. She is the senior vice president of Global Government Solutions, together with sales work. Casey, thanks so much for joining us. >>Thank you. Glad to be here. >>All right. So first of all, maybe if you could give us a little bit of level set your role at Salesforce and obviously, you know, a long partnership with Amazon. Tell us a little bit about that. >>Yes. My role at Salesforce is to work with our customers in the public sector globally and really help them map out their digital transformation. You know, it's an ongoing journey and we help them understand how to how to break that down into actionable steps and really transformed what they're doing to serve their constituents and citizens better. >>Excellent. So it of course said that the public sector show a lot about the leverage of govcloud and the other services. All the compliance that goes into that ahead of this event you had Ah, new update at Salesforce in partnership with AWS. Talk to us about it's the government cloud plus s o. You know what's entailed there? Uh, and, uh, tell us how AWS and Salesforce work together to launch this solution. >>Yeah, thanks Do. We are so excited to announce the launch of govcloud Plus, which is sales force is a customer 3 60 crm platform that runs on Amazon Web services in the govcloud in their govcloud environment. And we've just received a provisional 80 0 provisional authority to operate from the FEDRAMP program office at the high security level. So we are announcing govcloud Plus is fed ramp. I'm ready to go generally available and ready for customers. >>Excellent. Maybe bring us inside. You know what's different about how government agencies leverage sales force most companies out there, You know, Salesforce is a critical piece off how they manage, you know, number one, they're salesforce marketing and lots of other pieces, anything specific that we should understand about the public sector. >>Yeah, it's a great question because even our name Salesforce sounds like a commercial kind of thing to do. Governments don't think of themselves as selling, but if you break down to a level of detail about what governments actually do, it is the same kind of functions case management, its benefits delivery. It's communications and outreach. It's all the same kind of function that are necessary for commercial organizations to drive. And so that's what we do. We translate that into government ready terms so that they can serve child welfare, health information delivery record, former information, all kinds of services for the constituents of the public sector. And they might call them customers. They might call them citizens, residents constituent. But it's those they >>Yeah, well, what one of the things about Salesforce is, as you said, it's not just, you know, a sales tool. There's so much you've got a very broad and deep ecosystem. Their asses Well, as you know, people that know how to use it, they get underneath the covers. You know, when I think of not only a sales force. You know, the first company that I probably thought of and heard about that it was SAS. But if you talk about the AP economy, if you talk about how things integrate, Salesforce does a lot for developers. So I know one of the other pieces you had. There's everybody knows Dream Force. Maybe not as many people know, that trailhead DX show that that that Salesforce has had for developers. So bring us a little bit inside. What would Salesforce is doing for developers? And, of course, the government angle along those lines, too? >>Yeah, there's a lot going on in the developer world. We were glad to be able to host a virtual version of our trailhead developer conference and announced a lot of exciting new developments, including salesforce anywhere, which is really bringing an immersive voice, video and chat environment to collaborate in the developer environment and into the delivery environment. And you bring that into the public sector. And the benefits are amazing because one of the key challenges with government is keeping up with the pace of the public expectations. In a pace of change in the commercial world, all of the shop and bank and live on our mobile devices. And governments are being faced with the same expectations from the public to do any time anywhere personalized delivery as the code rapid development environments that force offers give public sector I t team the ability to quickly and respond to changing conditions like the code 19 pandemic and roll out applications that are not only fast to develop into boy but they also benefit from being in the govcloud environment. And so the compliance is party built in and that's another key challenges. Often it rises. The public sector is not almost building new applications and making sure they're secure with Salesforce all built in >>Yeah, sounds sounds a lot of sis similarity to what we hear in the private sector, of course, that the balance between what it is doing and how we enable developers, of course security, you mentioned super important anything specifically from the government sector that you'd say, Well, that might be different from what we see in the general enterprise world. >>You know, the but security is top of mind for the public sector, always because they're dealing with the most sensitive data they're dealing with the public trust and trust is really the currency of government. They're not dealing in profit and market share, but they are dealing in a public trust and protecting information like financial data, health data, personal data. And so it's essential that the government had the best in class commercial tools to make sure they are providing world class security for for their their constituents in their mission. And that's one reason we're so excited to be partnering with AWS on Golf Club was because Amazon AWS has already deployed the Fed Ramp I version of their infrastructures of service. And so, by riding on top of that, we inherit all of those existing controls at our own Fed ramp controls. And our customers benefit from the best in class security from two of the most trusted name in public Cloud >>Great. You know, absolutely. Govcloud has been a real boon for the entire industry. When it talks about how government agencies they're leveraging cloud, you talked about sitting on top of ah govcloud the government cloud plus, you know, leverages some of the certifications and like, can you bring us inside a little bit? How long did this effort take? to get anything specific in the integrations were, you know, functionality that that you might be able to highlight about this joint effort. >>Yeah, we've been working on for some time now because it's it's essential to really think from the ground up. And this is not just re platform ing our cloud solutions on AWS. It is rethinking the whole architecture so that we really are organically taking advantage of infrastructure services that AWS provides. So it is a really deep integration. And it's not only a technical tech, integration is the strategic partnership, and you're going to see a lot more now that's coming from both of us about the integration capabilities we're bringing together and a lot of the work we're going to be doing to continue to bring innovation to our joint customers. >>Excellent. You made reference to the pandemic. Uh, what are you hearing from your customers? How does this new offering impact them and support them both? Today is they're reacting to what happens as well as you know, going forward as we progress. >>Yes. Do you know the coveted 19 pandemic really exposed fault line in government programs that weren't scale to meet this demand. We saw website crashing when people were going to them and just overwhelming them with questions about the health situation. We saw benefits programs that only works where people could come in and sign up in a fly in person and obviously with government offices shut down, that wasn't an option. And a lot of government workers were sent home to tell a work without much notice, and their infrastructure just couldn't support it. And so just in general, there are a lot of breakdown along the way. But the good news is that a lot of public sector organizations and programs making that pivot quickly. For example, we worked with one state agency that experienced a 400% spikes in demand for applications for unemployment benefits. It makes sense people are out of work. They need unemployment benefit. But they just couldn't respond to that kind of surging demand. So we worked with them along with AWS and in less than a week stood up a virtual contact center with chatbots so that could meet the demand and provide those vital services to their residents at a time of real needs. So there's a lot to the optimistic about in the middle of this crisis, there is a lot of transformation happening. This kind of forcing function is producing a lot of innovation, transformation. And I think it's really going to make a fundamental shift in how we re imagined government in the future. >>Yeah. Okay, so you're absolutely right that this pandemic has shown a real spotlight on where you know what works and what doesn't, Um, and I think about not only government, but you know, a lot of how finances were often times you have your plans in place, you have your budgets in place. You have, you know, funding cycles. So you know what? What our sales force and Amazon doing to help those you talk about. They have to ramp things up a weight where they financially ready for this. Some companies Oh, wait. I have to temporarily dial things down. That's not in my 12 month or 36 month plan. So are there things that you're doing to help customers, you know, short term in and long term? Are you seeing some? Some change in how people think about their planning and how they could be ready for what change happens out there. >>Yeah, you know, one of the big findings from this whole experience, not just in the public sector but across every industry has been that digital transformation may in the past has been viewed as a nice to have. It is now really the only way to connect and serve both customers and employees, and so digital First, digital transformation is rapidly becoming an urgent imperative because this situation is is not going away overnight. And even when we get back to some state of normal, it's going to be different. It's a digital first and being able to move quickly to roll out services rapidly, to be able to start small and then scale rapidly. These are things that benefit any organization, whether it's government or commercial. >>Excellent. Okay, so I'll let you have the final word. What people want. What you want people to have is their take away of salesforce is participation in the AWS public sector online event. >>We are just so excited to be here with AWS to jointly come to our customers with govcloud plus the fed ramp. I authorized environment for the best in class theory, M and customer and employee services. Our partnership with AWS is one that we're excited about. You're going to see a lot more announcements coming to. It's not only a technology integration, it's also a strategic partnership. And we think our customers jointly. Just going to be really excited about the development. So thank you for the time and glad to be here. >>All right, well, thank you so much. Casey. Congratulations on the government cloud plus launch. And absolutely look forward to hearing more about it. >>Thank you. >>Alright. Be sure to stay tuned. Lots more coverage of the Cube at AWS Public Sector Summit online. I'm Stew Minimum. And thank you for watching the Cube. >>Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of AWS Public Sector Online. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and this is theCUBE's coverage of AWS Public Sector's Summit Online. We've done this show for many years, of course, this time it's online rather than in person in the District of Washington, D.C. Happy to welcome to the program first time guest, a very good partner of AWS's, from Salesforce, it's Casey Coleman. She is the Senior Vice President of Global Government Solutions, once again, with Salesforce. Casey, thanks so much for joining us. >> Stu, thank you, glad to be here. >> All right, so first of all maybe, if you could, give us a little bit of level set, your role at Salesforce and obviously a long partnership with Amazon. Tell us a little bit about that. >> Yes, my role at Salesforce is to work with our customers in the public sector, globally, and really help them map out their digital transformation. You know, it's an ongoing journey and we help them understand how to break that down into actionable steps and really transform what they're doing to server their constituents and citizens better. >> Excellent, so of course, at the Public Sector Show a lot about leverage of GovCloud and the other services, all of the compliance that goes into that. Ahead of this event, you had a new update at Salesforce in partnership with AWS. Talk to us about it's the Government Cloud Plus. So what's entailed there? And tell us how AWS and Salesforce work together to launch this solution. >> Yeah, thanks Stu. We are so excited to announce the launch of GovCloud Plus which is Salesforce's Customer 360 CRM platform that runs on Amazon Web Services in the GovCloud in their GovCloud environment and we've just received a provisional APO provisional authority to operate from the FedRAMP Program office at the high security level. So we are announcing GovCloud Plus is FedRamp High, ready to go, generally available and ready for customers. >> Excellent, maybe bring us inside. What's different about how government agencies leverage Salesforce. For most companies out there, Salesforce is a critical piece of how they manage not only their sales force but marketing and lots of other pieces, anything specific that we should understand about the public sector. >> Yeah, it's a great question because even our name, Salesforce, sounds like a commercial kind of thing to do. Governments don't think of themselves as selling, but if you break down to a level of detail about what governments actually do, it is the same kind of functions. It's case management, it's benefits delivery, it's communications and outreach, it's all the same kind of functions that are necessary for commercial organizations to thrive. And so that's what we do, we translate that into government-ready terms so that they can serve child welfare, health information delivery, patient records, farmer information, all kinds of services for constituents of the public sector. And they might call them customers, they might call them citizens, residents, constituents, but it's those they serve. >> Yeah, well one of the things about Salesforce is, as you said, it's not just a sales tool, there's so much. You've got a very broad and deep ecosystem there as well as people that know how to use it. They get underneath the covers. When I think of not only is Salesforce the first company that I probably thought of and heard about that it was SaaS, but if you talk about the API economy, if you talk about how things integrate, Salesforce does a lot for developers. So I know one of the other pieces you had that everybody knows Dreamforce, maybe not as many people know the TrailheaDX Show that Salesforce just had for developers, so bring us a little bit inside what Salesforce is doing for developers and of course, the government angle along those lines, too. >> Yeah, there's a lot going on in the developer world. We were glad to be able to host a virtual version of our Trailhead Developer Conference and announce a lot of exciting, new developments, including Salesforce Anywhere which his really bringing an immersive voice, video, and chat environment to collaborate in the developer environment and in the delivery environment. And you bring that into the public sector and the benefits are amazing because one of the key challenges with government is keeping up with the pace of the public expectations at a pace of change in the commercial world. All of us shop and bank, and live on our mobile devices, and governments are being faced with the same expectations from the public to do anytime, anywhere, personalized service delivery. It's the (audio distortion) rapid development environment that Salesforce offers gives the public sector IT teams the ability to quickly respond to changing conditions like the COVID-19 pandemic, and rollout applications that are not only fast to develop and deploy, but they also benefit from being in the GovCloud environment, and so the compliance is already built in. And that's another key challenge that often arises, the public sector (audio distortion) is not only fielding new applications but making sure they're secure, and so with Salesforce, it's all built in. >> Yeah, it sounds a lot of system similarity to what we hear in the private sector. Of course, the balance between what IT is doing and how we enable developers. Of course, security, you mentioned, is super important. Anything, specifically, from the government sector that you'd say might be different from what we see in the general enterprise world? >> You know, the security is top of mind for the public sector, always, because they're dealing with the most sensitive data. They're dealing with the public trust. And trust is really the currency of government. They're not dealing in profit and market share, but they are dealing in a public trust and protecting information like financial data, health data, personal data, and so it's essential that the government has the best in class commercial tools to make sure they are providing world class security for their constituents and their mission. And that's one reason we're so excited to be partnering with AWS on GovCloud Plus because Amazon AWS has already deployed the FedRAMP High version of their infrastructures and service, and so by riding on top of that, we inherit all of those existing controls, add our own FedRAMP High controls, and our customers benefit from the best in class security from two of the most trusted names in the Public Cloud. >> Great, you know, absolutely, GovCloud has been a real boon for the entire industry when it talks about how government agencies are leveraging Cloud. You talked about sitting on top of GovCloud, the Government Cloud Plus leverages some of the certifications and the like. Can you bring us inside a little bit? How long did this effort take to get? Anything specific in the integrations or functionality that you might be able to highlight about this joint effort? >> Yeah we've been working on it for some time now, because it's essential to really think from the ground, up. And this is really not just re-platforming our Cloud solutions on AWS, it is rethinking the whole architecture so that we really are organically taking advantage of infrastructure services that AWS provides. So it is a really deep integration. And it's not only a tech integration, it's a strategic partnership too, and you're going to see a lot more announcements coming from both of us about the integration, the capabilities we're bringing together. And a lot of the work we're going to be doing continue to bring innovation to our joint customers. >> Excellent. You made reference to the pandemic. What are you hearing from your customers? How does this new offering impact them and support them both, today, as they're reacting to what happens as well as going forward, as we progress? >> Yeah, Stu, you know, the COVID-19 pandemic really exposed a fault line in government programs that weren't scaled to meet this demand. We saw Websites crashing when people were going to them, and just overwhelming them with questions about the health situation. We saw benefits programs that only worked when people could come in and sign up and apply in person, and obviously, with government offices shut down, that wasn't an option. And a lot of government workers were sent home to tele-work without much notice, and their infrastructure just couldn't support it. And so just in general, there was a lot of breakdowns along the way. But the good news is that a lot of public sector organizations and programs are making that pivot quickly. For example, we worked with one state agency that experienced a 400% spike in demand for applications for unemployment benefits. It makes sense. People are out of work, they need unemployment benefits, but they just couldn't respond to that kind of surge in demand. So we worked with them along with AWS and in less than a week, stood up a virtual contact center with chatbot so they could meet the demand and provide those vital services for their residents at a time of real need. So there's a lot to be optimistic about in the middle of this crisis; there is a lot of transformation happening. This kind of forcing function is producing a lot of innovation and transformation and I think it's really going to make a fundamental shift in how we reimagine government in the future. >> Yeah, Casey, you're absolutely right. This pandemic has shown a real spotlight on what works and what doesn't. And I think about not only government, but a lot of how finances work. Oftentimes, you have your plans in place, you have your budgets in place, you have funding cycles, so what are Salesforce and Amazon doing to help those customers? You talk about they have to ramp things up. Oh wait, were they financially ready for this? Some companies, "Oh wait, I have to temporarily "dial things down that's not in my 12-month "or 36-month plan." So are there things that you're doing to help customers short-term and long-term? Are you seeing some change in how people think about their planning and how they can be ready for what change happens out there? >> Yeah, one of the big findings from this while experience, not just in the public sector, but across every industry, has been that digital transformation may, in the past, have been viewed as a nice-to-have. It is now really the only way to connect and serve both the customers and employees, and so digital first, digital transformation is rapidly becoming an urgent imperative because this situation is not going away overnight. And even when we get back to some state of normal, it's going to be different. And so digital first and being able to move quickly to rollout services rapidly, to be able to start small and then scale rapidly, these are things that benefit any organization, whether it's government or commercial. >> Excellent, well Casey, I'll let you have the final word what you want people to have as their takeaway of Salesforce's participation in the AWS Private Sector Online Event. >> We are just so excited to be here with AWS to jointly come to our customers with GovCloud Plus, the FedRAMP High authorized environment for the best in class CRM, and customer and employee services. Our partnership with AWS is one that we're excited about. You're going to see a lot more announcements coming soon. It's not only a technology integration, it's also a strategic partnership, and we think our customers are, jointly, just going to be really excited about the development. So thank you for the time and glad to be here. >> All right, well thank you so much, Casey. Congratulations on the Government Cloud Plus launch and absolutely look forward to hearing more about it in the future. >> Thank you, Stu. >> All right, be sure to stay tuned. Lots more coverage of theCUBE at AWS Public Sector Summit Online. I'm Stu Miniman and thank you for watching theCUBE. (soft electronic music)

>> from San Matteo. It's the Cube covering scaler. Innovation Day. Brought to You by Scaler >> Ron Jon Furry with the Cube. We're here for an innovation day at Scale ER's headquarters in San Mateo, California Profile in the hot startups, technology leaders and also value problems. Our next guest is Casey Clark, whose chief customer officer for scale of great to See You See >> you as well. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thanks for coming in. >> So what does it talk about the customer value proposition? Let's get right to it. Who are your customers? Who you guys targeting give some examples of what they're what they're doing with >> you. We sell primarily to engineering driven companies. So you know, the top dog is that the CTO you know, their pride born in the cloud or moving heavily towards the cloud they're using, you know, things like micro services communities may be starting to look at that server list. So really kind of forward thinking, engineering driven businesses or where we start with, you know, some of the companies that we work with, you know, CareerBuilder, scripts, networks, Discovery networks, a lot of kind of modern e commerce media B to B B to C types of sass businesses as well. >> I want it. I want to drill down that little bit later. But, you know, basically born the cloud that seems to be That's a big cloud. Native. Absolutely. All right, So you guys are startup. Siri's a funded, which is, you know, Silicon Valley terms. You guys were right out of the gate. Talk about the status of the product. Evolution of the value proposition stages. You guys are in market selling two customers actively. What's the status of the products? Where Where is it from a customer's standpoint? >> Sure, Yeah, we've got, you know, over 300 customers and so fairly mature in terms of, you know, product market status. We were very fortunate to land some very large customers that pushed us when we were, you know, seven. So on employees, maybe three or four years ago, and so that that four system mature very quickly. Large enterprises that had anyway, this one customers alando in Germany. They're one of the largest commerce businesses in Europe and they have 23 1,000 engineers. He's in the product on the way basis, and we landed them when it was seven employees, you know, three or four years ago. And so that four system insurance it was very easy for us to go to other enterprises and say, Yeah, we can work with you And here's the proof points on how we've helped >> this business >> mature, how they've improved kind of their their speed to truth there. Time to answer whenever they have issues. >> And so the so. The kind of back up the playbook was early on, when had seven folks and growing beta status was that kind of commercially available? When did it? When was the tipping point for commercially available wanted that >> that probably tipped. When I joined about a little under four years ago, I had to convince Steve that he was ready to sell this product, right, as you'd expect with a kind of technical founder. He never thought the product was ready to go, but already had maybe a dozen or so kind of friends and family customers on DH. So I kind of came in and went on my network and started trying to figure out who are the right fit for this. Andi, we immediately found Eun attraction, the product just stood up and we started pushing. And so >> and you guys were tracking some good talent. Just looking. Valley Tech leaders are joining you guys, which is great sign when you got talent coming in on the customer side. Lots changed in four years. I'll see the edge of the network on digital transformation has been a punchline been kind of a cliche, but now I think it's more real. As people see the power of scale to cloud on premises. Seeing hybrid multi cloud is being validated. What is the current customer profile when you look at pure cloud versus on premise, You guys seeing different traction points? Can you share a little bit of color on that? >> Yeah, So I talked a little bit about our ideal customer profile being, you know, if he's kind of four categories e commerce, media BTB, sas B to see sass. You know, most of these companies are running. Some production were close in the cloud and probably majority or in the cloud. When we started this thing and it was only eight of us and Jesus has your were never talked about. We're seeing significant traction with azure and then specific regions. Southeast Asia G C. P. Is very hot. Sourcing a high demand there and then with the proliferation of micro services communities has absolutely taken off. I mean, I'll raise my hand and say I wasn't sure if it was going to communities and bases two years ago. I was say, I think Mason's going to want to bet the company on. Thank God we didn't do that. We want with communities on DH, you know? So we're seeing a lot more of kind of these distributed workloads. Distributed team development. >> Yeah, that's got a lot of head room now. The Cube Khan was just last week, so it's interesting kind of growth of that whole. Yet service measures right around the corner. Yeah, Micro Service is going to >> be a >> serviceman or data. >> Yeah, for sure it's been, and that's one of the big problems that we run in with logs that people just say that they're too voluminous. It's either too hard to search through it. It's too expensive. We don't know what to deal with it. And so they're trying to find other ways to kind of get observe ability and so you see, kind of a growth of some of the metrics companies like data dog infrastructure monitoring, phenomenal infrastructure, modern company. You've got lots of tracing companies come out and and really, they're coming out because there's just so many logs that's either too expensive, too hard, too slow to search through all that data. That's where your answers live on DH there, just extracting, summarizing value to try to kind of minimize the amount of search. You have to >> talk about the competition because you mentioned a few of them splunk ce out there as well, and there public a couple years ago and this different price point they get that. But what's why can't they scale to the level of you guys have because and how do you compare to them? Because, I mean, I know that is getting larger, but what's different about you guys visited the competition? >> Absolutely. This is one of the reasons why I joined the company. What excites me the most is I got to go talk to engineers and I could just talk shop. I don't really talk about the business value quite as much. We get there at some point, obviously, but we made some very key decisions early on in the company's history. I mean, really, before the company started to kind of main back and architectural decisions. One we don't use elastics search losing any sort of Cuban indexing, which is what you know. Almost every single logging tool use is on the back end. Keyword indexes. Elastic search are great for human legible words. Relatively stale lists where you're not looking through, you know, infinite numbers of high carnality kind of machine data. So we made an optimized decision to use no sequel databases Proprietary column in our database. So that's one aspect of things. How we process in store. The data is highly efficient. The other pieces is worse, asked business, But we're true. SAS were true multi tenant. And so when you put a query into the scaler, every CP corn every server is executing on just that quarry is very similar way. Google Search works. So not only do we get better performance, we get better costume better scalability across all of our customers, >> and you guys do sail to engineering led buyer, and you mentioned that a lot of sass companies that are a lot of time trying to come in and sell that market bump into people who want to build their own. Yeah, I don't need your help. I think I might get fired or it might make me look good. That seems to be a go to market dynamic or and or consumption peace. What's your response to that? How does that does that fared for you guys? >> Engineers want to engineer whether it's the right thing or not, right? And so that is always hard. And I can't come in and tell your baby's ugly right because your baby is beautiful in your eyes and so that is a hard conversation have. But that's why I kind of go back to what I was saying. If we just talk shop, we talk about, you know, the the engineering decisions around, you know, is that the right database? Is this the right architecture? And they think that they started nodding and nodding, nodding, And then we say, And the values are going to be X y and Z cost performance scale ability on dso when you kind of get them to understand that like Elastics, which is great for a lot of things. Product search Web search. Phenomenal, but log management, high card. Now that machine did. It's not what it's designed for. Okay. Okay, okay. And then we start to get them to come around and say, Not only can you reallocate I mean, we talked about how getting talent is. It's hard. Well, let's put them back on mission critical business, You know, ensuring objectives. And we get, you know, service that this is all we do. Like you gonna have a couple people in there part time managing a long service. This is all we do. And so you get things like like tracing that were rolling out this quarter, you know, better cost optimization, better scalability. Things you would never get with an >> open. So the initial reaction might be to go in and sell on hey, cheaper solution. And is an economic buyer. Not really for these kinds of products, because you're dealing with engineers. Yeah. They want to talk shop first. That seems to be the playbook. >> Are artists is getting that first meeting and the 1st 1 is hard because that, you know, they're busy. Everybody's busy, They just wave you off. They ignore the email, the calls in and we get that. But once we get in, we have kind of this consultation, you know, conversation around. Why, why we made these technology decisions. They get it. >> Let's do a first meeting right now. People watching this video, What's the architectural advantages? Let's talk shop. Yeah, why, you guys? >> Yeah, absolutely so kind of too technical differentiators. And then three sort of benefits that come from those two technical choices. One is what I mentioned this proprietary, you know, columnar. No sequel database specifically designed for kind of high card in ality machine, right? There is no indexes that need to be backed up or tuned. You know, it's it's It's a massively parallel grab t its simplest form. So one pieces that database. The other piece is that architecture where we get, you know, one performance benefits of throwing every CP corn every several unjust trickery. Very someone way. Google Search works If I go say, How do I make a pizza and Google? It's not like it goes like Casey server in a data center in Alaska and runs for a bit. They're throwing a tonic and pure power every query. So there's the performance piece. There is the scale, ability piece. We have one huge massive pool of shared compute resource is And so you're logged, William. Khun, Spike. But relative to the capacity we have, it means nothing. Right? But all these other services, they're single tenant, you know, hosted services. You know, there's a capacity limit. And you a single customer. If you're going, you know, doubles. Well, it wasn't designed to handle that log falling, doubling. And then, you know, the last piece is the cost. There is a huge economies of scale shared services. We we run the system at a significantly lower cost than what anybody else can. And so you get, you know, cost, benefits, performance by defense and scale, ability >> and the life of the engineer. The buyer here. What if some of the day in the life use case pain in the butt so they have a mean its challenges. There's a dead Bob's is basically usually the people who do Dev ups are pretty hard core, and they they love it and they tend to love the engineering side of it. But what of the hassles with them? >> Yeah, Yeah, >> but you saw >> So you know, kind of going back to what we're all about were all about speed to truth, right? In kind of a modern environment where you're deploying everyday multiple times per day. Ah, lot of times there's no que es your point directly to the production, right? And you're kind of but is on the line. When that code goes live, you need to be able to kind of get speed to truth as quickly as possible, right? You need to be able to identify one of problem went wrong when something went wrong immediately, and they needed to be able to come up with a resolution. Right? There's always two things that we always talk about. Meantime, to restore it meantime, to resolution right there is. You know, maybe the saris are responsible for me. Time to restore. So they're in scaler. They get alert there, immediately diving through the logs to regret. Okay, it's this service. Either we need to restart it. Or how do we kind of just put a Band Aid on top? It's to make sure customers don't see it right. And then it gets kicked over to developer who wrote the code and say, Okay, now. Meantime, the resolution, How long until we figure out what went wrong and how do we fix it to make sure it doesn't happen again? And that's where we help. >> You know, It's interesting case he mentioned the resolution piece. A lot of engineers that become operationalized prove your service, not operations. People just being called Deb ops is that they have to actually do this as an SL a basis when they do a lot of AP AP and only gets more complicated with service meshes right now with these micro services framework, because now you have service is being stood up and torn down and literally, without it, human intervention. So this notion of having a path of validation working with other services could be a pain in the butt time. >> Yeah, I mean, it's very difficult. We've, you know, with some of the large organizations we work with you worked with. They've tried to build their own service, mashes and they, you know, got into a massive conference room and try to write out a letter from services that are out there in the realities they can't figure out. There's no good way for them to map out like, who talks toe what? When and know each little service knows, like Okay, well, here's the downstream effects, and they kind of know what's next to them. They know their Jason sees, but they don't really know much further than that on the nice thing about, you know, logs and all kind of the voluminous data that is in there, which makes it very difficult to manage. But the answers are are in there, right? And so we provide a lot of value by giving you one place to look through all of >> that cube con. This has been a big topic because a lot of times just to be more hard core is that there could be downtime on the services They don't even know about >> it. Yeah. Yeah, That's exactly >> what discovering and visualizing that are surfacing is huge. Okay, what's the one thing that people should know about scaler that haven't talked you guys or know about? You guys should know about you guys Consider. >> Yeah. I mean, I think the reality is everybody's trying to move as quickly as possible. And there is a better way, you know, observe, ability, telemetry, monitoring, whatever you call your team Is court of the business right? Its core to moving faster, its core to providing a better user experience. And we have, you know, spent a significant amount of time building. You need technology to support your business is growth. Andi, I think you know you can look at the benefits I've talked about them cost performance, scalability. Right? But these airline well, with whatever you're looking at it, it's PML. If it's, you know, service up time. That's exactly what we provide. Is is a tool to help you give a better experience to your own customers. >> Casey. Thanks for spend the time. Is sharing that insight? Of course. We'd love speed the truth. It's our model to Cuba. Go to the events and try to get the data out there. We're here. The innovation dates scales Headquarters. I'm John for you. Thanks for watching

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube. Covering ServiceNow Knowledge 2018. Brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome to day three of Knowledge18. You're watching the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. Day three is when ServiceNow brings together its audience and talks about its platform, the creators, the developers, the doers get together in the room. Jeff Frick and I, my co-host, we've seen this show now, Jeff, for many, many years. I joked on Twitter today, it's not often you see a full room and this room was packed on day three. Unless Larry Ellison is speaking. Well, Larry Ellison is not here, but Pat Casey is. He's the Senior Vice President of DevOps at ServiceNow and a Cube alum, Pat, great to see you again. >> Absolutely, just glad to be back. >> So, my head is exploding. With all the innovation that's comin' out. I feel like I'm at a AWS re:Invent with Andy Jassy up on stage with all these features that are coming out. But wow, you guys are on it. And part of that is because of the platform. You're able to put out new features, but how's the week going? >> So far it's been great. But you're sort of right, we are super proud of this year. I think there's more new stuff that's valuable for our customers coming out this year than probably the three years prior to this. I mean you got the chat bot designer, and you got some great application innovation, you got Flow Designer, you've got the entire integration suite coming online, and then in addition to that you've got a whole new mobile experience coming out. Just all stuff that our customers can touch. You can go downstairs and see all that and they can get their hands on it. Super exciting. >> So consistent too with the messaging. We've been coming here, I this is our sixth year, with kind of the low-code and no-code vision that Fred had way at the beginning. To let lots of people build great workflows and then to start taking some of these crazy new applications like chat bots and integration platform, pretty innovative. >> Yeah, I think it's a mindset when you get down to it. I mean we, the weird failure mode of technology is technology tends to get built by by technologists. And I do this for a living. There's a failure mode where you design the tool you want to use. And those tend to be programmer tools 'cause they tend to get designed by programmers. It does take an extra mental shift to say no, my user is not me. My user is a different person. I want to build the tool that they want to use. And that sort of user empathy, you know Fred had that in spades. That was his huge, huge, huge strength. Among other things. One of his huge strengths. It's something that we're really trying to keep foreground in the company. And you see that in some of the new products we released as well. It's really aimed at our customers not at our developers. >> The other thing I think that's been consistent in all the interviews we've done, and John talked on the day one keynote one of his kind of three keys to success was try to stay with out of the box as much as you can as a rule, and we've had all the GMs of the various application stacks that you guys have, they've all talked consistently we really try to drive, even as a group our specific requests back into development on the platform level so we can all leverage it. So even though then the vertical applications you guys are building, it's still this drive towards leverage the common platform. >> Yeah, absolutely. And there is, what's the word I'm looking for? There's a lot of value in using the product the way it was shipped. For easiest thing is when it advances or when we ship you new features you can just turn 'em on, and it doesn't conflict with anything else you got going in there. There's always an element of, you know, this is enterprise software. Every customer's a little bit different. GE does not work the same way as Bank of America. So you probably never get away entirely from configuring, but doing the minimum that you can get away with, the minimum that'll let you put your business-specific needs in there, and being really sure of it, you need to do it, it's the right approach to take. The failure mode of technologists, the other one, is we like writing technology. So give me a platform and I'm going to just write stuff. Applying that only when it makes sense to the business is where you really need to be. Especially in this day and age. >> Well I wanted to ask you about that 'cause you guys talk about many applications one platform. But you used to be one platform one app. >> Pat: Yep. >> So as you have more, and more, and more apps, how are you finding it regarding prioritization of features, and capabilities? I imagine the GMs like any company are saying, hey, this is a priority. >> Sure. >> And because you have a platform there's I'm sure a lot more overlap than if you're a stovepipe development organization. But nonetheless you still got to prioritize. Maybe talk about that a little bit. >> Sure, you end up with two different levels of it though. At one level, you tend to want to pick businesses to go into, which you're aligned with the technology stack you have. I don't think we're going to go into video streaming business. It's a good business, but it's not our business. >> Too bad, we could use some of that actually. >> Well, maybe next year. (laughs) But when you get down to it we mostly write enterprise business apps. So HR is an enterprise business app, CSM, SecOps, ITSM, they're all kind of the same general application area. So we don't tend to have something which is totally out to lunch. But you're right in the sense that A, what's important to CSM might be less important to ITSM. And so we do prioritize. And we prioritize partly based on what the perceived benefit across the product line is. If something that a particular BU wants that five other BUs are going to benefit from that's pretty valuable. If only them, not so much. And part of it too is based on how big the BUs are. You know if you're an emerging product line you probably get few less features than like Feryl Huff. Like she has a very big product line. Or Pabla, he has a very big product line. But there's also an over-investment in the emerging stuff. Because you have to invest to build the product lines out. >> The other thing I think is you guys have been such a great opportunity is I just go back to those early Fred interviews with the copy room and the color paper 'cause nobody knows what that is anymore. >> Pat: Yep. >> But workflow just by its very nature lends itself so much to leveraging, AI, and ML, so you've already kind of approached it while trying to make work easier with these great workflow tools, but what an opportunity now to apply AI and machine learning to those things over time. So I don't even have to write the rules and even a big chunk of that workflow that I built will eventually go away for me actually having to interact with it. >> Yeah, there's a second layer to it too, which I'll call out. The workflows between businesses are different. But we have the advantage that we have the data for each of the businesses. So we can train AI on this is the way this particular workflow works at General Electric and use that bot at GE and train a different bot at maybe at Siemens. You know it's still a big industrial firm. It's a different way of doing it. That gives us a really big advantage over people who commingle the data together. Because of our architecture, we can treat every customer uniquely and we can train the automation for the unique workflows for that particular customer. It gives a much more accurate result. >> So thinking about, staying on the theme of machine intelligence for a moment, you're not a household name in the world of AI, so you've done some acquisitions and-- >> Pat: Yep. >> But it's really becoming a fundamental part of your next wave of innovation. As a technologist, and you look out at the landscape, you obviously you see Google, Apple, Facebook, IBM, with Watson, et cetera, et cetera, as sort of the perceived leaders, do you guys aspire to be at that level? Do you need to be? What's the philosophy and strategy with regard to implementing AI in the road map? >> Well if you cast your eyes forward to where we think the future's going to be, I do think there are going to be certain core AI services that they're going to call their volume plays. You need a lot of engineers, a lot of resources, a lot of time to execute them. Really good voice-to-text is an example. And that's getting pretty good. It's almost solved at this point. A general case conversational agent, not solved yet. Even the stuff you see at Google I/O, it's very specialized. It does one thing really well and it's a great demo, but ask it about Russian history, no idea what to talk about. Whereas, maybe you don't know a lot about Russian history, you as a human would at least have something interesting to say. We expect that we will be leveraging other people's core AI services for a lot of stuff out there. Voice-to-text is a good example. There may well be some language parsing that we can do out there. There may be other things we never even thought of. Maybe stuff that'll read text for you and give you back summaries. Those are the kinds of things that we probably won't implement internally. Where you never know, but that's my guess, where you look at where we think we need to write our own code or own our own IP, it's where the domain is specific to our customers. So when I talked about General Electric having a specific workflow, I need to be able to train something specific for that. And if you look at some other things like language processing, there's a grammar problem. Which is a fancy way of saying that the words that you use describing a Cube show are different than the words that I would use describing a trade show. So if I teach a bot to talk about the Cube, it can't talk about trade shows. If you're Amazon, you train your bot to talk in generic language. When you want to actually speak in domain-specific language, it gets a lot harder. It's not good at talking about your show. We think we're going to have value to provide domain-specific language for our customers' individualized domains. I think that's a big investment. >> But you don't have to do it all as well. We saw two actually interesting use cases talking to some of your customers this week. One was the hospital in Australia, I don't know if you're familiar with this, where they're using Alexa as the interface, and everything goes into the ServiceNow platform for the nurses. >> Yep. >> And so that's not really your AI, it's kind of Amazon's AI, that's fine. And the other was Siemens taking some of your data and then doing some stuff in Azure and Watson, although the Watson piece was, my take away was it was kind of a fail, so there's some work to be done there, but customers are going to use different technologies. >> Pat: Oh, they will. >> You have to pick your spots. >> You know we're, as a vendor, we're pretty customer-centric. We love it when you use our technology and we think it's awesome, otherwise we wouldn't sell it. But fundamentally we don't expect to be the only person in the universe. And we're also not, like you've seen us with our chat bot, our chat bot, you can use somebody else's chat client. You can use Slack, you can use Teams, you can use our client, we can use Jabber. It's great. If you were a customer and want to use it, use it. Same thing on the AI front. Even if you look at our chat bot right now, there's the ability to plug in third-party AIs for certain things even today. You can plug it in for language processing. I think out of box is configured for Google, but you can use Amazon, you can use Microsoft if you want to. And it'll parse your language for you at certain steps in there. We're pretty open to partnering on that stuff. >> But you're also adding value on top of those platforms, and that's the key point, right? >> The operating model we have is we want it to be transparent to our customers as to what's going on in the back end. We will make their life easy. And if we're going to make their life easy by behind the scenes, integrating somebody else's technology in there, that's what we're going to do. And for things like language processing, our customers never need to know about that. We know. And the customers might care if they asked because we're not hiding it. But we're not going to make them do that integration. We're going to do it for them, and just they click to turn it on. >> Pat, I want to shift gears a little bit in terms of the human factors point of all this. I laugh, I have an Alexa at home, I have a Google at home, and they send me emails suggesting ways that I should interact with these things that I've never thought of. So as you see kind of an increase in chat bots and you see it increase in things like voice-to-text and these kind of automated systems in the background, how are you finding people's adoption of it? Do they get it? Do the younger folks just get it automatically? Are you able to bury it such where it's just served up without much thought in their proc, 'cause it's really the behavior thing I think's probably a bigger challenge than the technology. >> It is and frankly it's varied by domain. If you look at something like Voice that's getting pretty ubiquitous in the home, it's not that common in a business world. And partly there frankly is just you've got a background noise problem. Engineering-wise, crowded office, someone's going to say Alexa and like nobody even knows what they're talking about. >> Jeff: And then 50 of 'em all-- >> Exactly. There's ways to solve that, but this is actual challenge. >> Right. >> If you look at how people like to interact with technologies, I would argue we've already gone through a paradigm shift that's generational. My generation by default is I get out a laptop. If you're a millennial your default is you get out your phone. You will go to a laptop and the same says I will go to a phone, but that's your default. You see the same thing with how you want to interact. Chat is a very natural thing on the phone. It's something you might do on a full screen, but it's a less common. So you're definitely seeing people shifting over to chat as their preferred interaction paradigm especially as they move onto the phones. Nobody wants to fill out a form on a phone. It's miserable. >> Jeff: Right. >> I wonder if we could, so when Jeff and I have Fred on, we always ask him to break out his telescope. So as the resident technologist, we're going to ask you. And I'm going to ask a bunch of open-ended questions and you can pick whatever ones you want to answer, so the questions are, how far can we take machine intelligence and how far should we take machine intelligence? What are the things that machines can do that humans really can't and vice versa? How will humans and machines come together in the future? >> That's a broad question. I'll say right now that AI is probably a little over-marketed. In that you can build really awesome demos that make it seem like it's thinking. But we're a lot further away from an actual thinking machine, which is aware of itself than I think it would seem from the demos. My kids think Alexa's alive, but my son's nine, right? There's no actual Alexa at the end of it. I doubt that one's going to get solved in my lifetime. I think what we're going to get is a lot better at faking it. So there's the classical the Turing test. The Turing test doesn't require that you be self-aware. The Turing test says that my AI passes the Turing test if you can't tell the difference. And you can do that by faking it really well. So I do think there's going to be a big push there. First level you're seeing it is really in the voice-to-text and the voice assistance. And you're seeing it move from the Alexas into the call centers into the customer service into a lot of those rote interactions. When it's positive it's usually replacing one of those horrible telephone mazes that everybody hates. It gets replaced by a voice assist, and as a customer you're like that is better. My life is better. When it's negative, it might replace a human with a not-so-good chat. The good news on that front is our society seems to have a pretty good immune system on that. When companies have tried to roll out less good experiences that are based on less good AI, we tend to rebel, and go no, no, we don't want that. And so I haven't seen that been all that successful. You could imagine a model where people were like, I'm going to roll out something that's worse but cheaper. And I haven't seen that happening. Usually when the AI rolls out it's doing it to be better at something for the consumer perspective. >> That's great. I mean we were talking earlier, it's very hard to predict. >> Pat: Of course. >> I mean who would have predicted that Alexa would have emerged as a leader in NLP or that, and we said this yesterday, that the images of cats on the internet would lead to facial recognition. >> I think Alexa is one example though. The thing I think's even more amazing is the Comcast Voice Remote. Because I used to be in that business. I'm like, how could you ever have a voice remote while you're watching a TV and watching a movie with the sound interaction? And the fact that now they've got the integration as a real nice consumer experience with YouTube and Netflix, if I want to watch a show, and I don't know where it is, HBO, Netflix, Comcast, YouTube, I just tell that Comcast remote find me Chris Rock the Tamborine man was his latest one, and boom there it comes. >> There's a school of thought out there, which is actually pretty widespread that feels like the voice technologies have actually been a bit of a fail from a pure technologies standpoint. In that for all the energy that we've spent on them, they're sort of stuck as a niche application. There's like Alexa, my kids talk to Alexa at home, you can talk to Siri, but when these technologies were coming online, I think we thought that they would replace hard keyboard interactions to a greater degree than they have. I think there's actually a bit of a learning in there that people are not as, we don't mandatorily, I'm not sure if that's a real word, but we don't need to go oral. There's actually a need for non-oral interfaces. And I do think that's a big learning for a lot of the technology is that there's a variety of interface paradigms that actual humans want to use, and forcing people into any one of them is just not the right approach. You have to, right now I want to talk, tomorrow I want to text, I might want to make hand gestures another time. You're mostly a visual media, obviously there's talking too, but it's not radio, right? >> You're absolutely right. That's a great point because when you're on a plane, you don't want to be interacting in a voice. And other times that there's background noise that will screw up the voice reactions, but clearly there's been a lot of work in Silicon Valley and other places on a different interface and it needs to be there. I don't know if neural will happen in our lifetime. I wanted to give you some props on the DevOps announcement that you sort of pre-announced. >> We did. >> It's, you know CJ looked like he was a little upset there. Was that supposed to be his announcement? >> In my version of the script, I announced it and he commented on my announcement. >> It's your baby, come on. So I love the way you kind of laid out the DevOps and kind of DevOps 101 for the audience. Bringing together the plan, dev, test, deploy, and operate. And explaining the DevOps problem. You really didn't go into the dev versus the ops, throwing it over the wall, but people I think generally understand that. But you announced solving a different problem. 500 DevOps tools out there and it gets confusing. We've talked to a bunch of customers about that. They're super excited to get that capability. >> Well, we're super, it's one of those cases where you have an epiphany, 'cause we solved it internally. >> Dave: Right. >> And we just ran it for like three years, and we kept hearing customers say, hey, what are you guys going to do about DevOps? And we're never like quite sure what they mean, 'cause you're like, well what do you mean? Do you want like a planning tool? And then probably about a year ago we sort of had this epiphany of, oh, our customers have exactly the same problem we do. Duh. And so from that it kind of led us to go down the product road of how can we build this kind of management layer? But if you look across our customer base and the industry, DevOps is almost a rebellion. It's a rebellion against the waterfall development model which has dominated things. It's a rebellion against that centralized control. And in a sense it's good because there's a lot of silliness that comes out of those formal development methodologies. Slow everybody down, stupid bureaucracy in there. But when you apply it in an enterprise, okay some of the stuff in there, you actually did need that. And you kind of throw the baby out with the bathwater. So adding that kind of enterprise DevOps layer back in, you still do get that speed. Your developers get to iterate, you get the automated tests, you get the operating model, but you still don't lose those kind of key things you need at the top enterprise levels. >> And most of the customers we've talked to this week have straight up said, look, we do waterfall for certain things, and we're not going to stop doing waterfall, but some of the new cool stuff, you know. (laughs) >> Well if you look at us, it's at the, if you take the microscope far enough away from ServiceNow, we're waterfall in that every six months we release. >> Dave: Yeah, right. >> But if you're an engineer, we're iterating in 24-hour cycles for you. 24-hour cycles, two-week sprints. It's a very different model when you're in the trenches than from the customer perspective. >> And then I think that's the more important part of the DevOps story. Again, there's the technology and the execution detail which you outlined, but it's really more the attitudinal way that you approach problems. We don't try to solve the big problems. We try to keep moving down the road, moving down the road. We have a vision of where we want to get, but let's just keep moving down the road, moving down the road. So it's a very, like you said, cumbersome MRD and PRD and all those kind of classic things that were just too slow for 2018. >> Nobody goes into technology to do paperwork. You go into technology to build things to create, it's a creative outlet. So the more time you can spend doing that, and the less time you're spending on overhead, the happier you're going to be. And if you fundamentally like doing administration, you should move into management. That's great. That's the right job for you. But if you're a hands on the keyboard engineer, you probably want to have your hands on the keyboard, engineering. That's what you do. >> Let's leave on a last thought around the platform. I mentioned Andy Jassy before and AWS. He talks about the flywheel effect. Clearly we're seeing the power of the platform and it feels like there's the developer analog to operating leverage. And that flywheel effect going from your perspective. What can we expect going forward? >> Well, I mean for us there's two parallel big investment vectors. One is clearly we want to make the platform better for our apps. And you asked earlier about how do we prioritize from our various BUs, and that is driving platform enhancements. But the second layer is, this is the platform our customers are using to automate their entire workflow across their whole organization. So there's a series of stuff we're doing there to make that easier for them. In a lot of cases, less about new capabilities. You look at a lot of our investments, it's more about taking something that previously was hard, but possible, and making it easier and still possible. And in doing that, that's been my experience, is Fred Luddy's experience, the easier you can make something, the more successful people will be with it. And Fred had an insight that you could almost over-simplify it sometimes. You could take something which had 10 features and was hard to use, and replace with something that had seven features and was easy to use, everyone would be super happy. At some level, that's the iPhone story, right? I could do more on my Blackberry, it just took me an hour of reading the documentation to figure out how. >> Both: Right, right. >> But I still miss the little side wheel. (laughs) >> Love that side wheel. All right, Pat, listen thanks very much for coming. We are humbled by your humility. You are like a rock star in this community, and congratulations on all this success and really thanks for coming back on the Cube. >> Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure meeting you guys again. >> All right, great. Okay, keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest. You're watching the Cube live from ServiceNow Knowledge K18, #know18. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas it's The Cube covering Interconnect 2017. Brought to you by IBM. >> Okay welcome back everyone. We are live at the Mandalay Bay for IBM Interconnect 2017, The Cube's exclusive coverage. I'm John Frower, Dave Vellante, my co-host. Our next guest is Jim Casey and Michael Gilfix. Michael's the VP of process transformation and Jim is offering manager at IBM. Guys, welcome back to The Cube. >> Both: Thank you. >> So you guys had a big announcement on Monday, the digital assistant, so I've been craving a digital assistant since the little Microsoft little, you know, icon would pop up. >> Michael: You're talking about Clip, aren't you? >> The clip man. >> Don't talk about that. >> We don't like that. >> To me that was once called the digital assistant. It was a help button, but this is now, digital assistant is real automation, and you guys got a whole other take on this. It's totally cloud, cloud first. What's the digital assistant product that you announced? Take us through that. >> So here was our vision. What we found was in the modern, digital workplace, everyone is struggling to just keep up pace. Too many sources of information, and the information is buried everywhere. It's buried in emails, in spreadsheets, in documents. Many corporations have undertaken a BI project. In fact, there's an explosion of all these different dashboards that has all kinds of business data that they could go and see, so no one has the time to read all these things. Meanwhile, everyone in the modern world is trying to do 50 things at once and it's hard to figure out what is the best time to progress something and make progress? Our vision, so what we thought is wouldn't it be great if I could program this assistant, programmable by everyday business users, to watch for the things that matter to me and figure out when I should take action or take automated action on my behalf to save me time. >> So it's an interface, so it's software interface, cloud-based SAS, and the back end, does the user have to, what's the persona of the user that's using your product? >> Well, we want them to be used by non-developers, non-technical users, and so we thought really carefully about how you can teach your assistant these notions of skills, really point to tasks that can really make your life easier on a daily basis and they can pick anything that they like working with, that they can connect to, get the information from, and effectively assemble into these point-to tasks. >> Host: And the data sources are whatever I want them to be, explain how that works? >> Yeah, it can connect to common SAS applications. Those could be things like productivity suites, like G-Suite, they can be things like CRM systems, like Sales Force, campaign management systems like Marketo, and that's just in the beta that we just launched. And of course in the future, they'll be able to connect into their on-premise systems as well. >> So is it to replace the dashboards and all the wrangling that goes on? Most business users will have either a department that does all the data science or data prep for them, wrangling data sets, and then they get reports or spreadsheets or some BI dashboard. >> Yeah, we wanted the assistant to push the work to the user instead of the user having to go and spend time watching all these dashboards that really, they just didn't have time to do. And so the assistant takes all the heavy lifting of watching the data for you, figures out when action is needed, and then taps you on the shoulder. >> So Ginny Ramete was talking about that your customers want to own the data. So that's a great purpose, we buy into that mission, but a lot of the data is spread all over the place, so one of the problems that we're seeing in the big data world, now IOT complicates even further, is that data's everywhere, scattered, and the tools might have stacks and data wrangling within tools so you have complexity out there just on the scaffolding of how the data's managed. Is that part of the problem that you guys help solve? Because that seems to be a pain point. >> Yeah, and I think the amount of time that people spend just searching and aggregating and gathering information so they can figure out what to do, it's staggering. And when you think about the, it takes about two the three hours often for people to gather all the information that they need in order to make a real significant decision, every day, daily, you know operations. You're spending time in your email, you're building spreadsheets. Think of all the time you spend building a spreadsheet, wrangling data, you know. It's a productivity killer, and so a lot of the use cases that we look for, we'll ask our clients show me the ugliest spreadsheet that you use on a day-to-day basis for business operations. That's usually a starting point, or show me how many dashboards are you looking at and what are the decision you make off that? That's the stuff that we want to collapse into what the assistant can provide. >> So I got a use case for you, I'm a walking, I'm like everybody, right, so I've got my email, I've got five or six spreadsheets, Google Docs that I'm in every day all day, maybe there's a base camp, maybe there's a slack. I'm in Sales Force, all right, and then I got my social. >> Tool overdose. >> You just described the typical modern environment. All fragmented tools. >> And I'm in there and I'm like which browser is it, oh is it in Firefox, I'll put my Safari stuff I'll put over here, and I'll put my email in Mozilla, okay. It is just awful, it's a bloody nightmare, I get lost. I got to back up, hit the escape key, and go, okay, where am I, how do I find it again? >> Jim: It's connecting the dots. >> Okay, explain now how you can help me. >> So think of the things that you're looking for in all those different data sources. We're seeing the trend now. It's not about how can I just connect with things, it's how can I connect the dots? It's the actual business data inside of there, and how do I put that in a context that's relevant to you, what you're trying to do? You know, and a great example, we're working with one client who, they're moving, and a lot of people are doing this, they're moving from a point in time sale to being as a service, and in that kind of scenario, relationships with your clients really matter. And preventing customer churn is really important. So they have people who are responsible for making sure that people are not going to churn. That's a lot of dots to connect, right? So with the Digital Business Assistant, what we do is we look for those patterns that are really common that predict churn, but those things are scattered across your sales systems, your marketing systems, the website traffic, social media even, and we're able to combine all those things into a really consumable component called a skill. And then that individual person that's responsible for this set of customers can tailor it to their needs. So it's kind of like how you would buy a suit. When you go in and buy a suit, you don't get just the fabric laid out on a table and they cut it, right? You, most people don't anyway. (they laugh) >> I buy what's on the rack. I say "I want that one." >> Yeah, you walk in and you say that. >> I want what that is. >> 42 long, right? And they make a couple adjustments and then it's yours. >> All right, I'll take that suit up there, what's on the mannequin. >> They make a few adjustments and it's yours. Software should be the same way. You should be able to configure software in a few clicks. >> That's the whole thing, I mean, I joke about the mannequin but that's really kind of what hangs the perfect use case so that would be an automated example of an assistant model for you guys. Sometimes you just want everything to hang together for you, and sometimes you might want to go in and go look at the data. >> Yeah, and we see this across a lot of different industries, so things like customer service and sales and marketing, but we also see it in, let's say I'm a field technician, right? And I got to go out to an oil field. How do I know all the different patterns of information that might predict whether or not I need to, what I need to do when I'm out there. >> So you monitor my patterns, my behavior, and then ultimately train the model, or? >> Well you program it. You tell it what to watch for for you. So to give you an example of the kind of use case, to pick a specific use case, and we shared this again in sort of our unveiling on Monday. We shared the idea of a sales rep who is pursuing a given opportunity, and thinking about all the factors that went into their success and, you know, that sales rep has several different things they need to use to really maximize their chance of closing that deal. So one is they need to be responsive do their customer, and you know, like many different corporations out there who sell many different products and services, while you're busy working on the new opportunity, you've got to service the old. So when some issue comes up, you have to be responsive to it. Well, it's really hard while you're busy working on all these opportunities, to make sure that the issue's being resolved, that you're being responsive to your customer. Meanwhile, everybody in the corporation is coming up with new opportunities, new marketing brochures, new values in the product. And so is your rep knowledgeable about the latest and greatest products? So we imagine that you could teach your assistant how to watch some of this stuff for you and really help you to close your opportunity. And a very pointed example of the kinds of things that it should watch for you, I should be able to say something like hey, if I can have an active opportunity and then my customer goes and opens a service support ticket and that service support ticket hasn't been resolved in a week and meanwhile, I got a bunch of email coming from that client, of tone angry, notice the cognitive part there, about this particular product, and meanwhile I'm on the road and I'm not checking my email. Well, I have a catastrophe waiting to happen. So I can program my assistant to watch for these kinds of things. >> Does it do push notifications? >> Exactly, so you can then have it push to you, look, here's all the information about the active service thing, here's how long it was sitting there waiting for resolution, this is what's happened since, and you can immediately take action. >> So you're orchestrating basically signals that the user connects, like a Google alert on search is a trivial example, right? Someone types, a result comes on Google, you get an email. Here, you're kind of doing that-- >> But it's proactive. You tell your assistant to proactively watch it for you, and that's a unique technology that we developed in-house. Because it's watching all these events happening in the enterprise and figuring out when that thing becomes actionable. >> And the user would know where to look, because like Dave's spreadsheet might say "hey, cash balance" or you know, sales trend, this rep and then something happens, and he can get that pushed to him from three different disparate side-load apps, that's pretty much what it is. >> That's right. >> Okay, so give us the status on the beta right now. It's a beta, so it's sign-up required. Okay, and the requirements to implement it, if you get through the beta, is just log in to a portal? It's a SAS model and then do the connectors? >> So the first thing you do, you go to IBM.com/assistant. You can sign up to. >> That, by the way, might be the easiest URL I think we ever came up with. I'm pretty sure that one's going to be memorable. >> Yeah, so you just go to that site, you sign up, you give us a little bit of information, your email, how to contact you and we'll put you on the waiting list, and what we're going to be doing is opening up more seats as we go through over the next couple weeks, and then we plan in the near term here to make it available as an open beta that you could see, and you'll see that inside of Bloomix as a tile inside of Bloomix. >> And here's the thing, we're doing something really different in the marketplace. This is a very different kind of offering, really targeting, again, non-technical people, this proactive situational awareness that your assistant can do, uses your data, built-in intelligence, intelligence that can customize to the way you work, guide you to the next best action. We have an incredible vision for this. The idea behind the beta is to start getting feedback. We worked very closely with early customers in the initial design and development. We want to open that up and get even more feedback and ideas on this kind of technology. >> So how is this different from Watson's discovery services that they have? I can imagine that you're building on Watson. Is it the cognitive piece within IBM, or is this kind of, I mean how would a customer figure that out, or just more of a-- >> Yeah, so I can give you an example. So we have one of our prototypes that we're actually taking some of the components of Watson discovery service and we package that up as a skill inside of your assistant, and it's a specific implementation, so what it allows you to do in this case is it'll look at your email and it'll look for specific entities, like a customer that matters to you, and if I get three emails of negative sentiment from a customer where I also have an open opportunity in the last week, that's a pattern I want to know about, right? Or we can start to correlate with all sorts of different things, so I think what you're going to see is these skills that we make available with the digital business assistant really up, take consumability of these really, really powerful technologies around cognitive and cloud. We take that to the next level. >> That's the key, how do we make Watson tailorable and put in the hands of every knowledge worker in every company? >> Host: So I presume you guys are dog fooding this personally, is that right? >> We have plans to do that, yes. >> Host: Oh, you haven't started yet? >> Sampling our own champagne. >> But we are, yes. >> He always gets called on that. >> We will be using it, yes. >> We created that champagne. >> We're beer drinkers, that's it, beer. >> We're going back to dog food, we eat beer, we should drink our own beer now. We created that with all our boost men, remember? (laughs) >> So get back to the status of the product. So it's got some Watson capability, but this is for the user to use. I don't have to get IT involved? >> Jim: That's right. >> This is where the user takes a personal productivity approach, and you bring in some Watson-- >> A user may not even know that they're using some of these Watson capabilities. To the end user, what do you want it to do for me? Well, I want it to tell me if, uh, if I think a customer might be upset with me. Well, that might be a combination of a lot of different things, but it just makes it really consumable and easy for people. >> So where do you guys sit within IBM? Because now there's like, because this is a really cool user tool, so is this part of Watson? >> Jim: We think so. >> Is it part of the Watson team? >> Well, honestly our organization doesn't really matter, I mean, we're working with teams across IBM as a whole. It's a great opportunity to take this technology and really reach a whole set of new use cases, I think, across the company, and we want to integrate Watson technology to, like we were saying, really make it easy for the end-user to go and access it. >> Any plans around developer outreach? >> Well, we will, I think, later this year, one of the things we envisioned really early on is that people are going to want to have pre-built skill sets, and that's a great opportunity to build an incredibly powerful ecosystem and we've been in discussion with a lot of our partners about how to do that. >> Well you guys are API based, so this is a beautiful thing, right? >> Well we're going to start to open up some SDKs to our partners, to others, and that's going to allow them to extend the assistant and really create even more powerful industry content. >> You know, the business model of reducing the steps it takes to do something and saving people time, making it easy to use is a magical formula of success. >> And not even just less steps, it's less time reading things, less time sifting through information so you can spend time on stuff that matters. >> Just email by itself, I mean, Dave, your example was the best, because I know, we live that. But we have a multitude of tools and sometimes it just organically goes, because the one guy like, you know, this tool set, or now I got-- >> So do you want to do the deal now or? >> Right, that's what I'm saying, they should be signing up. >> So do we get paid? (they laugh) >> We're already both signed up. We have a testimonial. >> If you can't get it, how can we get it? >> We'll kick the tires on it, and uh, but the thing that gets my excitement is potential for API integration. Because if I know I can the automation to a whole other level and the use cases start to patternize in the enterprise, then it can get interesting. All right guys, thanks so much. What's going on here with the show, what else is happening for you guys? Share some stories for the folks that aren't here, that are watching on IBM Go right now. What's the vibe at the show this week? >> Well, it's been a great vibe. We've had a chance to share some incredible success stories, so in addition to the unveiling of this particular product, on Monday we had a chance for one of our marquee clients to share their story, and I'll tell you a little bit about what they did. It was at the National Health Service of the UK. Part of their blood and transplant, and we were fortunate enough to have Aaron Powell, who's the chief digital officer there, share their story of using process technology to improve the speed at which they get organs in the hands of recipients, and they did it on the cloud. And the results they obtained were unbelievable. So the before and after, they had staff at 2am, writing lists of high-risk patients and how to map their donors and he kidded us not, that when someone's priority changes, they would wipe the board and reset things. And these are people's lives that are at stake in the matching process. >> And they're tired, human error is huge. >> Human error, absolutely, and by the way, when you look at the end-to-end process, there was something like 90 steps if I remember, 96 steps I think end-to-end. All of which were very manual and error-prone, and error-prone means risk. And they were able to improve organ allocation by 3x, so 3x faster, they automated something like 58% of the steps, reducing propensity for manual error, and what he shared in his story is, they successfully a few months ago did the first heart transplant on the cloud. >> Host: Wow, that's amazing. >> So it's an amazing, amazing story. >> That's a great story, yeah. Did he say that in the session? >> He did, actually, he said that. >> That's actually a good thing to chase down for a great blog post, that would be phenomenal. It would have been covered yet on the news? >> So we're going to post actually the video of it online so people can also see him live presenting his story, it was unbelievable. >> Make sure you send me the link. The other thing that they could apply there is two-block chain, I mean some of the block chain stuff coming out is going to be really interesting. >> Absolutely, and we're working very closely with that team to really leverage this kind of process technology, take people's business operations and connect that in to this feature network that's going to power businesses. >> CRM is the human supply chain, I mean, but now extend it out to the internet of things. I mean, it's interesting how this could play out. Guys, thanks so much for coming on The Cube. Thanks for sharing the insight, congratulations on the launch. I just signed up for the beta while we were talking. >> Dave: Me too, so let us cut the line. >> Done. >> We need it. Perfect use case, we need help. It's The Cube, of course, no help here, great guests here on The Cube. I'm John Frower, Dave Vellante, more great coverage, stay with us. Day three of Interconnect 2017, we'll be right back. (techno music)

(soft click) >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at downtown San Francisco, at Twitter's World Headquarters. It's a beautiful building. Find a reason to get up here and check it out. But they have Data Privacy Day here today. It's an all day seminar session, series of conversations about data privacy. And even though Scott McNealy said, "Data privacy is dead, get over it." Everyone here would beg to differ. So we're excited to have our next guest Eva Velasquez. Shes' the President and CEO of ITRC, welcome. >> Thank you, thank you for having me and for covering this important topic. >> Absolutely, so what is ITRC? >> We are the Identity Theft Resource Center. And the name, exactly what it is. We're a resource for the public when they have identity theft or fraud, privacy data breach issues, and need help. >> So this begs an interesting question. How do people usually find out that their identity has been compromised? And what is usually the first step they do take? And maybe what's the first step they should take? >> Well, it's interesting because there isn't one universal pathway that people discover it. It's usually a roadblock. So, they're trying to move forward in their lives in some manner. Maybe trying to rent an apartment, get a new job, buy a car or a house. And during that process they find out that there's something amiss. Either in a background check or a credit report. And at that point it creates a sense of urgency because they must resolve this issue. And prove to whoever they're trying to deal with that actually wasn't me, somebody used my identity. And that's how they find out, generally speaking. >> So, you didn't ask their credit scores. Something in a way that they had no idea, this is how they. What usually triggers it? >> Right, right, or a background check. You know, appearing in a database. It's just, when we think about how pervasive our identity is out there in the world now. And how it's being used by a wide swath of different companies. To do these kind of background checks and see who we are. That's where that damage comes in. >> Talking about security and security breaches at a lot of shows, you know. It's many hundred of days usually before companies know that they've been breached. Or a particular breach, I think now we just assume they're breached all the time. And hopefully they'd minimize damage. But an identity theft, what do you find is kind of the average duration between the time something was compromised before somebody actually figures it out? Is there kind of an industry mean? >> It's really wildly inconsistent from what we see. Because sometimes if there is an issue. Let's say that a wallet is stolen and they're on high alert, they can often discover it within a week or 10 days. Because they are looking for those things. But sometimes if it's a data breach that they were unaware of or have no idea how their information was compromised. And especially in the case of child identity theft, it can go on for years and years before they find out that something's amiss. >> Child identity theft? >> Mhmm. >> And what's going with? I've never heard of child identity theft. They usually don't have credit cards. What's kind of the story on child identity cut theft? Which is their PayPal account or their Snapchat account (laughs). >> Well, you're right, children don't have a credit file or a credit history. But they do have a social security number. And that is being issued within the first year of their life because their parents need to use it on their tax returns and other government documents. Well, because the Social Security Administration and the credit reporting agencies, they don't interface. So, if a thief gets ahold of that social security number. That first record that's created is what the credit bureaus will use. So they don't even need a legitimate name or date of birth. Obviously, the legitimate date of birth isn't going to go through those filters because it is for someone who's under 18. So, kid goes all through life, maybe all through school. And as they get out and start doing things like applying for student loans. Which is one of the really common ways we see it in our call center. Then they come to find out, I have this whole credit history. And guess what? It's a terrible credit history. And they have to clean that up before they can even begin to launch into adulthood. >> (chuckles) Okay, so, when people find out. What should they do? What's the right thing to do? I just get rejected on a credit application. Some weird thing gets flagged. What should people do first? >> There's a couple things and the first one is don't panic. Because we do have resources out there to help folks. One of them is the Identity Theft Resource Center. All of our services are completely free to the public. We're a charity, non-profit, funded by grants, donations, and sponsorships. They should also look into what they might have in their back pocket already. There are a lot of insurance policy writers for things like your home owners insurance, sometimes even your renters insurance. So, you might already have a benefit that you pay for in another way. There are a lot of plans within employee benefit packages. So, if you work for a company that has a reasonable robust package, you might have that help there as well. And then the other thing is if you really feel like you're overwhelmed and you don't have the time. You can always look into hiring a service provider and that's legitimate thing to do as long as you know who you're doing business with. And realize you're going to be paying for that convenience. But there are plenty of free resources out there. And then the last one is the Federal Trade Commission. They have some wonderful remediation plans online. That you can just plug in right there. >> And which is a great segway, 'cause you're doing a panel later today, you mentioned, with the FTC. Around data privacy and identity theft. You know, what role does the federal government have? And what is cleaning up my identity theft? What actually happens? >> Well, the federal government is one of the many stakeholders in this process. And we really believe that everybody has to be involved. So, that includes our government, that includes industry, and the individual consumers or victims themselves. So, on the government end, things like frameworks for how we need to treat data, have resources available to folks, build an understanding in a culture in our country that really understands the convenience versus security conundrum. Of course industry needs to protect and safeguard that data. And be good stewards of it, when people give it to them. And then individual consumers really need to pay attention and understand what choice they're making. It's their choice to make but it should be an educated one. >> Right, right. And it just, the whole social security card thing, is just, I find fascinating. It's always referenced as kind of the anchor data point of your identity. At the same time, you know, it's a paper card that comes after your born. And people ask for the paper card. I mean, I got a chip on my ATM card. It just seems so archaic, the amount of times it's asked in kind of common everyday, kind of customer service engagements with your bank or whatever. Just seems almost humorous in the fact that this is supposed to be such an anchor point of security. Why? You know, when is the Social Security Administration or that record, either going to come up to speed or do you see is there a different identity thing? With biometrics or a credit card? Or your fingerprint or your retina scan? I mean, I have clear, your Portican, look at my... Is that ever going to change or is it just always? It's such a legacy that's so embedded in who we are that it's just not going to change? It just seems so bizarre to me. >> Well, it's a classic case of we invented a tool for one purpose. And then industry decided to repurpose it. So the social security number was simply to entitle you to social security benefits. That was the only thing it was created for. Then, as we started building the credit and credit file industry, we needed an initial authenticator. And hey, look at this great thing. This is a number, it's issued to one individual. We know that there's some litmus test that they have to pass in order to get one. There's a great tool, let's use it. But nobody started talking about that. And now that we're looking at things like other type, government benefits being offered. And now, you know, credit is issued based on this number. It really kind of got away from everybody. And think about it, it used to be your military ID. And you would have your social security number painted on your rucksack, there for the world to see. It's still on our Medicare cards. It used to be on our checks. Lot of that has changed. >> That's right it was on our checks. >> It was, it was. So, we have started shifting into this. At least the thought process of, "If we're going to use something as an initial authenticator, we probably should not be displaying it, ready for anyone to see." And the big conversation, you know, you were talking about biometrics and other ways to authenticate people. That's one of the big conversations we're having right now is, "What is the solution?" Is it a repurposing of the social security number? Is it more sharing within government agencies and industry of that data, so we can authenticate people through that? Is it a combination of things? And that's what we're trying to wrestle with and work out. But it is moving forward, I'll be it, very very slowly. >> Yeah, they two factor authentication seems to have really taken off recently. >> Thankfully. >> You get the text and here's your secret code and you know, at least it's another step that's relatively simple to execute. >> Something you are, something you have, something you know. >> There you go. >> That's kind of the standard we're really trying to push. >> So, on the identity theft bad guys, how is their behavior changed since you've been in this business? Has it changed dramatically? Is the patterns of theft pretty similar? You know, how's that world evolving? 'Cause generally these things are little bit of an arm race, you know. And often times the bad guys are one step ahead of the good guys. 'Cause the good guys are reacting to the last thing that the bad guys do. How do you see that world kind of changing? >> Well, I've been in the fraud space for over 20 years. Which I hate to admit but it's the truth. >> Jeff: Ooh, well, tell me about it. >> And we do look at it sort of like a treadmill and I think that's just the nature of the beast. When you think about the fact that the thieves are they're, you know, they're doing penetration testing. And we, as the good guys, trying to prevent it. Have to be right a hundred percent of the time. The thieves only have to be right once, they know it. They also spend an extraordinary amount of time being creative about how they're going to monetize our information. The last big wave on new types of identity theft, was tax identity theft. And the federal government never really thought that that would be a thing. So when we went to online filing, there really weren't any fraud analytics. There wasn't any verification of it. So, that first filing was the one that was processed. Well, fast forward to now, we've started to address that it's still a huge problem and the number one type of identity theft. But if you had asked me ten years ago, if that would be something, I don't think I would have said yes. It seems, you know, so, you know. How do you create money out of something like that? And so, to me, what is moving forward is that I think we just have to be really vigilant for when we leave that door unlocked, the thieves are going to push it open and burst through. And we just have to make sure we notice when it's cracked. So that we can push it closed. Because that's really I think the only way we're going to be able to address this. Is just to be able to detect and react much more quickly than we do now. >> Right, right, 'cause going to come through, right? >> Exactly they are. >> There's no wall thick enough, right? Right and like you said they only have to be right once. >> Nothings impenetrable. >> Right, crazy. Alright Eva, we're going to leave it there and let you go off to your session. Have fun at your session and thanks for spending a few minutes with us. >> Thank you. >> Alright, she's Eva Velasquez, President and CEO of the ITRC. I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching theCUBE. Catch you next time. (upbeat electronic music)

live from Las Vegas Nevada it's the kue covering knowledge 15 brought to you by service now okay welcome back everyone you are watching SiliconANGLE weak bonds to cube our flagship program I go out for the events and extract the signal-to-noise i'm john furrier my coach dave vellante with Wikibon Darden we're pleased to have Pat Casey VP general manager of create now platform development early employee of service now great perspective we're gonna get geeky here but talk about some of the high-level stuff welcome back to the cube thank you very much so you've seen the evolution of service now from early days to public company scaling very cloud I mean it's inside the tornado to use that metaphor it's been so successful what do you feel what is what you're feeling right now and how much more work do you see on the horizon well I think probably the first thing I feel is shocked the things they honest answer this company was founded we didn't have office space so we borrowed office space in the basement of our vc and it had no windows so we're in this little tomb of a room and there were five people there one table we got from Ikea so to look out now we've got nine thousand customers who paid money to attend an event about this it's just it's shocking it's also humbling and it's also to be honest it's scary people are here because they are dependent on technology that we wrote and one of the things that just been always been sunk into my head and I believe this forum is I do not want to let anybody here who has put their faith in service now down so in terms of where the work is we've only just gotten started I get up every day and I am just I fundamentally want to make sure that this is the best product it can be that our customers get the basic question to me that's the startup cash but you guys know and starve your big company but you got some good things going on to get some wind at your back to use the French lupine sailing analogy the market is exploding with innovation so that's a challenge but it's also could be an upgrade opportunity so what's your take on it I mean you got the agile you got native we're hearing terms like microservices being kicked around in this native cloudapp swirl you guys better platform share with your take on some of those buzzwords of some of the big mega trends I think if you when this company was founded this was actually founded as a platform company which I think most people don't realize but when Fred sat down to design this his cocktail napkin design and there was actually no cocktail napkin but imagine there was it was we're gonna run enterprise business apps in the cloud that was the idea and the first few sales calls though selling a platform were kind of miserable because we'd go to the customers and we'd say hey we're here to see show you service now and they say well what does it do and we'd say well whatever you want it to do and they kind of cock their head and say what's your sales call guys you've got to talk to us so we built out a suite of applications on top of the platform so we'd have something concrete to sell and that's what the company sold for probably about eight years it was our itsm sweet incident management problem management change management that's what most of our customer base uses we're sort of pivoting back to focusing on the platform again though partly by building other apps we've got HR we've got facilities we've got legal we've got GRC but it's also about trying to get people just onto the platform itself and in terms of really big mega trends that is one of the mega trends we're seeing it's that people are not building everything from scratch anymore it's just not an efficient way to build things in the market anymore and people are also moving to more and more specialized pieces of tooling you don't start with a C compiler anymore you start with a higher-level language you start with Ruby on Rails you start with j2ee if your enterprise developer you pick a tool that's appropriate for the problem you want to solve and service now is a great tool for solving a lot of enterprise business application let's talk about developers because one of the things that I hear all the time is oh I built this on node i got this an angular get this in java there's love different stacks kind of being built but cobble together can you know i guess i'll put them in a container whatever they say these days there's a lot of cool stuff happening on the developer front open sources we're doing great what are you guys looking at in terms of leverage and oh by the way that enables non-programmers to do stuff that looks program to ethic so the innovation opportunity for create is huge so what's what's going on with you guys nice front we actually view the developer world is kind of being in three different groups you've got it's a Gartner term but I think it's a good term you've got locoed developers and that's someone they can make a form they can make a list they can potentiate a little bit of light scripting it's your kind of traditional system administrator archetype and that's who we founded the company to address that was the business idea we could enable loko developers we get enable administrators to build really meaningful business apps and that's really been the secret to our success we're really good at it because they're closer to the action but don't have to go in and just go out of bat and if you will the kind of develop requirements I think most people do their best work when they're scratching their own itch so if you're close to the problem you're like man I can solve this for myself and we've been very empowering to let administrators and loko developers do that but that's not the totality of people out there there's also people who can't even do that there are no code developers there my mother she can use Excel really well but she can't write code and my mom is a very bright woman she's a healthcare consultant but she's a no code developer but she can put a spreadsheet out there with column heading she can make forms using our no code tool she can actually put a business service out on the web with approval workflows notifications dynamic that's fever put out a HR appt in one day when he started playing with express absolutely that's the trend right it's that is definitely one of the futures you see is this democratization of access to development tools it used to be when I started in this industry you pretty much had to be an educated professional to build anything meaningful that's no longer the case you get kids today building great applications with real business value real value and that's the value of the modern era the barrier to entry has just declined and declines and declined because the tools have gotten so much better and so much more specialized the combination of the two is just incredibly empowering so what if we could talk about architecture maybe I don't know inside baseball or maybe maybe plumbing I don't know what you said in your keynote multi-tenant is the TV dinner of cloud vendor deployments what did you mean let's talk about multi-tenant versus multi-instance sure so traditionally in the in the SAS space there's really two different architectures people deploy the most common is something called multi tenant and multi tenant if you imagine a big old apartment building where there's one big construct is one big database some software on top of it and each individual customer is a separate software construct your sharing hardware you're sharing software you're sharing memory you're sharing an apartment in an apartment building it's really sort of efficient for the vendor it's certainly convenient for the vendor because they've got one thing to manage it you think about it though there's downsides though where if the water main breaks you have the entire apartment building or every customer in this case they don't have water so the failure modes tend to be really extreme with multi tenant environments and you can't do things like let people paint their apartment any color they want to or expand their apartment or cook foods that are really smelly you have to have apartment rules in place and you see the same thing with multi tenant architectures where in order to make it work you have to restrict what people can do within your platform you get licensing restrictions you get technical restrictions you get wrapped up in quotas that's part and parcel for multi-tenancy your service now is not multi-tenant we're multi-instance so every time a customer joins us they get a unique instance of service now it's just for them it's your own house and because of that we don't have to go in and tell you what you can do with your house there's no HOA you can paint it green you can paint it pink you can do whatever you want to because it's yours and that's the big freedom that we can do for the enterprise customer base for big customers and multi-tenancy does have its use case I don't want to oversell it if you're selling largely into kind of the SMB space for example it's a really good architecture but up at the enterprise level it's really not the multi-instance architecture we use is fundamentally I think superior okay so what what point did you make the decision to go to multi-instance obviously early on you were there early on and and why did you make that decision I think it's not as clear-cut as it is in history always look back and say well we had this great design system we set out knowing we wanted to address the enterprise space and we eventually figured out that in order to do this we couldn't do it with multi-tenancy but we sort of talked ourselves into kind of our own little version I know if you are watch south park but the underpants gnomes dilemma and if you remember that episode Cartman I think butters they decide they're going to stake out the underpants gnomes who sneak into your house and they steal your underwear and they follow them they watch them steal some underwear and they followed them down to their underground lair and they accost them and they say why have you been stealing everybody's underwear and so the gnomes take them to a small room and they show them powerpoints and the PowerPoint has three parts in part one the gnomes steal underpants and in part three the gnomes profit and then they skip back to part two and is a big question mark so we had the same problem we knew we wanted to go with multi-instance and we knew it was going to be great in the market we had no idea how to do it so we probably spent about three years of engineering effort figuring out how to make a multi instance architecture work well at scale because doing it once it's really easy we have 18,000 instances in the platform right now that's a lot things have to work with automation they have to work cleanly and they have to work all the time so it wasn't a matter of convenience for you just the opposite oh absolutely it's a terrible Jam it was a challenge we had to overcome I think it was necessary for our target audience and if you're listening to this and you're actually looking to start your own SAS company figure out who your SAS audiences if it's small business if it's medium business multi-tenancy may be absolutely the right answer okay in the trade-off is cost efficiency I mean it's more expensive right so not necessarily I think there's this myth that you know it's more expensive it's not convenient you did two more engineering work but in terms of what we actually spend on hardware and power and cooling the data center Computers Computers compute if I have to buy a lot of servers and plug them into one database or I have a lot of servers plugged into a lot of databases it generally equates to roughly the same hardware costs so it doesn't generally drive capex but what it does drive is you've got to put that engineering effort in its work up front and you're not a data intensive you have a lot of data and service now but if I remember my numbers rate were about 5 petabytes of storage so that's not how we are not saying Netflix you know we are not box you know we're not storage centric its transactions so it wasn't authorized for transaction absolutely but the the implication that you've made is that many of the clouds that are out there are fine for SMB maybe yeah if you're an SMB that is okay with that but many are not suitable for the enterprise absolutely and I think that's the big change we're seeing in the cloud space using different analogy but a hundred years ago just under half of all the cars on the road where one model is the ford model t say forty-eight percent and the best-selling car was actually a truck in 2014 was a Ford f-150 was two-point-three percent of the market the day when one car could dominate the market like that has long since passed but in the early days of the cloud there were only a few vendors so they were trying to address as much of the market as they possibly could so they built very general case solutions well time has changed people are getting much more specialized so if you wanted to surveys you probably use survey monkey they're really flip and good at surveys they're not claiming to do anything else the same thing is true with the cloud platforms the people who built general case platforms are generally getting kind of pushed a little aside by more specialized offerings that are addressing narrower market segments better how important is this issue of multi-tenant versus multi-instance you obviously feel it's important I mean you guys are talking about it now let me put you in a hypothetical situation you may or may not want to answer let's say you're a CIO you're bigger Oracle customer most your CIOs here I guarantee you're using Oracle in some way shape or form Oracle's making a big push to the cloud 12 cc4 cloud see four containers I don't know pick your poison but Oracle's generally considered a pretty you know reliable company sure um recovery is you know name of the game for them and you know they do a good job should I be concerned if they're going in a multi-tenant direction or is Oracle sort of an outlier in the cloud you honestly I'm not sure if they're an outlier but I would say that if I were hired by Oracle to run their our cloud I would not do that given their customer base I do think there's a case where the early cloud companies use sales forces with example we're a multi-tenant there multi-tenant because it was convenient there multi-tenant because that was their target audience and so they were pitching hey look the cloud and that message ultimately got tangled up with their deployment architecture so it's stuck in people's head that the cloud equals multi-tenant and it really does it SMB cloud multi-tenant is probably exactly what you want to do departmentally focus is probably right at the enterprise level it's not the right design decision them talk about what's new in the platform let's get into the platform what's happening give us the update give us the highlight reel real quick and then talk about what it's exciting you about the next evolution of the platform sure so a couple of different things I'll talk a little about what we're doing for developers historically i mentioned i talked about loko developers talks about no code developers there are also professionals I'm a professional developer i did this for 20 years of my life I lived in an IDE I started writing code I wrote C code I wrote 370 assembler I've done a lot of terrible horrifying stuff back in my day terrible is probably long school with no natural there you go that's where to put it here it was really hard you know I was being shot at but no the trick to that though is that if you were a professional and you wanted to use service now the tools were not familiar there was no IDE or single place you go to see your whole app so we built one the Geneva release the product actually has an in-browser IDE as code search it as editing it has code management you see your whole app in one place it's great and actually our teams use it to build itself it's a little bit self eating watermelon but the team working on the IDE actually programs in the IDE so they prefer that to programming and eclipse for example we're biased we like our IDE but it's actually very valuable that's for the developer side there's also a new developer program and go to developers service now calm join the program you don't need to be a customer just have an email address you can get a hold of a free instance you can get access to technology you can actually join the forums long as you use it it's yours it's really aimed everybody if you want to learn service now go to the developer program join it there's no requirements other than a willingness to learn on your part technology wise though talk about something else we live in a post Edward Snowden world and I don't really like Edward Snowden because it made my work harder but one of the things he's done is make the concept of data sovereignty and data privacy a foreground concern for a lot of people especially outside the US people don't want to put data in the cloud if there's fear of it a us-based vendor or us-based firms can potentially see it we're set aside the u.s. if it's just private information they don't want to put it in the cloud if anybody can see it one of the ways to solve that and we're addressing this is to allow the data to get encrypted before it comes to us so we're putting an encryption proxy inside the customers network along with its keys and data will pass through the proxy certain fields get encrypted and we see only ciphertext we literally can't read it so encryptions your solution there it is absolutely our solution side the international lies you go to create a replica have a cloud-based system potentially or do you can you store in the US oh it's stored in the US because the data is ciphertext we literally can't read it and that's their side effects there that are actually kind of cool in that because we can't read it you also can't use it in back-end workflows so you've got to design your wrap around the encryption but that is a hard guarantee of it is we don't have the keys it is not possible for service now to get your data back and the government subpoena you can't give it okay given really know either know that you have to supreme the cup of the company in question who had the keys and up to their legal department as to what they wanted to do with it okay so can I ask you kind of as we wrap up here a lot of great stuff containers are all the rage I think doc I just got another 95 million dollars 95 million they've raised so much funding over the years containers but promises interoperability I bring that up only as a way to tease out this notion of interoperability sure how does that how do you guys view that trend in the cloud is that something that's you change I've been around for a while sure you know programming but Dockers got the traction than you seeing security it was like lumio make it a lot of hype I think there's two different parts to bet you no one is there definitely is a push to keep applications from messing each other up and impact each other in bad ways either from a security standpoint or just from a architecture overload and you see that on back-end technologies you'll contain docker is a good example of that you know vmware's a little more mature technology doing something very similar then you know choose your virtualization layer in the more application space where service now fits we have the same problem in that we don't want a service now application to impact a different service now application so we actually invested very heavily in fuji something called scoping it allows for applications to be managed individually to be deployed individually and to be interact with each other only through defined api's and that means that you can actually deploy an application with a high degree of confidence it's not going to impact any of the other for lack of a better word innocent applications inside your system it's a very big improvement and one of the things actually allowed us to do the service now store how does open source evolution if you will you know we always talked about this but you know be me being computer science degree back in the 80s we lived in the same generations we're open source was new second classes and now its first classes and now you have beyond that now it's proven it's working is there new business models you're seeing kind of like pure pure red hat and you seeing you know open platforms like data platforms so what's the next evolution open source on how do you guys going to tap into that and what's the most relevant thing to for the folks to be looking at I think first what we're very big users of open source especially in our back-end I mean we're sent OS we're a little bit of red hat where or you know f5s we've got pixie we've got we got Python we got puppet we've got lots of open source environment and the product as well we're huge fans we think it really has brought a lot of really good technology out it's very accessible to the engineering community so we use a lot of it we even contribute back to some of them case maybe I think if you look at business models i'll be honest i have not seen a lot of open source companies do really well in the environment they built a lot of great technology and i think it's been very empowering for the developer community but even red hat has not really you know they're not huge it's not a 20 billion dollar company the case may be so I don't expect to see people flocking to the open source world to make money I see people flocking to the open source world for the same reason engineers have always built cool stuff it's that joy of creation that power of building to be of value creation and contribution it's absolute like a love innovation and it's not i think no one objects to money and that's why they call it money but the open source world from what I've seen it's not being driven by financials it's being driven by engineers wanting to solve problems it's kind of creativity brick it's also a great way to play ball and get a job and show you what you're worth it's like you know I'm sorry just like playing ball in the yard Sandlot baseball then you go pro right so it's a way for recruiting and also to meet people absolutely and we're actually as I said we're big users and we love a lot of its at knowledge we use my sequel community users as well so okay probably gonna get the hook here but I want to view the final word the future give us your take of the preferred future technology wise and just next five years ten years what's good what's the world going to be like I think five years out it's going to look fairly similar to it does today you're definitely going to see a push to drive the information you need to you without you having to go and look for it you're already seeing this you know Twitter pops when something happens data comes to you you don't have to go here hit refresh periodically that's going to drive itself into more and more parts of the world your iPhone dings when something comes up that's going to seep out away from the phone away from specialty platforms like Twitter and other applications and you're going to get more and more used to seeing things come to you other than you having to go out and look for information mission that's relevant it's going to be kind of a service-oriented internet it's going to kind of push stuff out to you ten years out I suspect there'll be more dramatic changes the big thing actually seen this is a little bit of inside baseball but operational architectures are getting much more standardized so I do suspect that the amount of compute people can throw at problems is going to continue to go up astronomically so right now big data solutions are generally applicable to fairly narrow companies who can apply a lot of data to it like a netflix can afford to optimize for recommendations for you that computes going to get cheaper and cheaper and more and more accessible and you will see that sort of solution get applied to more and more specialized problems so I think you're going to find that information is going to come to you and it's going to be more and more germane to you asynchronous definitely absolutely the value and the goodness of more and more cheap compute will create faster faster personalization faster personalization and it'll be it'll be real time there's no need for you to pull on it asynchronous it'll come to you and it'll be the information you're not near real-time real-time self-driving cars don't do very well in your that's how I okay thanks so much for sharing your time and insights here inside the Cuban my pleasure get the insight from the early days to what's going on now appreciate it this is the cube or live in Las Vegas for three days for no 15 I'm John for Dave vellante we right back with more cube signal from the noise after this short break you

(calm music) >> Okay, welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage here on the floor at Moscone south in San Francisco California for AWS summit, 2022. This is part of their summit conferences, not re:Invent it's kind of like becoming like regional satellite, mini re:Invents, but it's all part of education developers. Of course theCUBE's here. We're going to be at the AWS summit in New York city, only two this year. And this summer check us out. Of course, re:MARS is another event we're going to be going to so check us out there as well. And of course re:Invent at the end of the year and re:Inforce the security conference in Boston. So, Sarbjeet Johal, our next guest here. CUBE alumni, CUBE influencer, influencer in the cloud industry. Sarbjeet great to see you. Thanks for coming on. Oh, by the way, we'll be at Boston re:Inforce, re:Invent in December, re:MARS which is the robotics AI show, and of course the summit here in San Francisco and New York city, the hot areas. >> That's cool. >> Great to see you. >> Good to see you too. >> Okay. I got a lot of data to report. You've been on the floor talking to people. What are you finding out? What's the report? >> The report is actually, I spoke to three people from AWS earlier. As said one higher up guy from the doctor, Casey Tan. He works on French SaaS chips and he gave me a low down on how that thing works. And there's a systolic arrays TPUs, and like a lot of insider stuff >> Like deep Silicon chip stuff. >> Yes. And that they're doing some great stuff there. And of course that works for us at scale and for cloud guys it's all about scale. If you're saving pennies at that scale, you're saving millions and maybe hundreds of millions at some point. Right? So that was one. And I also spoke to the analytics guys and they gave me some low-down on the Glue announcements. How the big data processing is happening at AWS and how they are now giving you the ability where your infrastructure hugs your demand. So you're not wasting any sources. So that was a number one complaint with the Glue from AWS. So that was one. And then I did the DeepRacing race and my timings were like number 78. So. >> You got some work to do. You download your machine learning module. >> No, I will do that and then play with it. Yes. I will train one. >> You like a simulation too? >> Yeah. Yeah. I will do that simulation, yes. >> What else? Anything jump off the page for you. What's the highlight if you could point at something? Did anything pop up at you in this event with AWS? Was there any aha moment or something that just jumps off the page? >> I think it was mainly sort of incremental to be honest with you. And the one thing-- >> Nothing earth shattering >> Nothing earth shattering and that at the summit it's like that, you know, like it but they are doing new announcements of like almost every day with new services. So I would go home and read on that but there are some patterns that we are seeing emerging and there are some folks very active on Twitter. Mark in recent just did very controversial kind of tweet couple of days back. That was, that was hard. >> Was he shit posting again? >> Shit posting. Yeah. He was shit posting actually, according to actually I saw Corey as well on the floor, Corey and Rodrigo. And, and-- >> Did you see Corey's interview with me? We were talking about shit posting 'cause he wrote in this newsletter. Mark and recently Elon Musk, they're all kind of like they're really kind of active on Twitter with a lot of highly intelligent snarkiness. >> They're super intelligent and they know the patterns, they know the economics and technology. Super smart guys and yeah. Who is in control, there was a move from the middle seat and social media kind of side of things where people are controlling the narratives and who controls the narrative. Is it billionaires? Is it government? We see that. >> Well I mean, it's interesting seeing the power. I mean, I call it the revenge of the nerds. You got the billionaires who are looking at the political screw-ups that Facebook and others have done. And by not being clear and it's hard, it's a hard problem to solve. I don't really want to be in their seat. Even Andy Jassy is the CEO of AWS. What is he? I mean, he's dealing with problems that for some people would be their worst part of like they could ever dream of scenario. He's dealing with that at breakfast. And then throughout his day, he's got all kinds of Amazon's so big and Apple and you got Google and you got the fan companies. So, you know, at some point tech is now so part of society, it's not just the nerds from California. It's tech is in everything now. So it's a societal impact. And so there's consequences for stuff. And so you're starting to see this force for good that's come from the sustainability angle. You're going to start to see force for good with technology as it relates to people's lives. And we had Mapbox on the CUBE and they provide all this navigation and Gareth the guy who runs that division, he talks about dark kitchens, dark stores. So just they're re-engineering the supply chain of delivery. So we all been to restaurants and seen people there from picking up food delivery. Why are they going to the retail? So dark kitchens are just basically depots for supplying the 10 menus that everyone orders from. That's a change of a structural change in the industry. So that's jumped out at me, Matt Wood spoke to me about serverless impact to the analytics team. And again, structural changes, technical and culture. Right? So, so you're starting to see to me more and more of the two themes of some technology change, architectural change, system change and culture thinking. And you know, we had a 20 year old guest on here who was first worked at Amazon web services when he was 16. >> Wow. >> Graduated high school early and went into Amazon. He's like, I love tools. So people love tools. Hardware is coming back. Right? So I mean Sarbjeet this is crazy. >> It's crazy. >> What's going on. >> It's crazy actually. Remember the nine year old kid at re:Invent 2019. Karthick was the name if I remember, but I spoke to him and he was crazy. He was AWS certified and kids are playing with this technology in their high schools. >> It's awesome. >> And even in their elementary schools now. >> They can get their hands on it quicker. They don't need to go in full class for a year. They can self-teach, they can do side projects they can launch a side hustle, they can stand up a headless retail outlet, who knows what they can do if you got the Lego blocks. This is what I love about the cloud, you can really show something fast and then abandon it. >> Actually, I think it is all enabled through cloud. Like the accessibility of technology has gone like exponentially, like wildfire. Like once you have access to the cloud just all you need is connection to the internet. After that you have the VMs. and you have the serverless, there's zero cost to you. And things are thrown at you. Somebody who was saying that earlier here like we have said that many times it's like that's how the drug dealer, you know, sell the drug. Like sniff it, it's free, >> First is free. >> So they're doing it. Yes. >> We say that about theCUBE. >> And from the, I see cloud from two different angles, like we all do. And like, I try to sort of force myself to look at it from the both angles. There's the supplier side and the buyer side or the consumer side on the other side. Right? So from the supplier side, it's a race for talent to build it, number one, then number two is race for talent to train them. So we saw the numbers and millions being shown today at the keynote again. And Google is showing those numbers as well. Like how many millions they are training like 25 to 30 million people within next two, three years. It's crazy numbers. >> Sarbjeet I got to say so if I have to look at what jumped off the page for me on this event, was couple things and this is kind of weird nuanced stuff but I'll just try to explain it as best I can. Number one, we're going to see more managed services like DevOps managed services. As DevOps teams grow, talent is a problem. And Kubernetes obviously is growing and got to get that right. It's not easy to be a Kubernetes, you know slinging clusters around with Kubernetes. It's hard. I think that's got to get easier. So I think the path to easy is going to be some sort of abstraction service layer. And I think the smart people are going to have this layer will manage it and then provide that as a service, number one. Number two is this notion of a systems design thinking around elements, whether it's storage or maps for like Mapbox and around these elements they have to have a systematic effect of other things. You can't just, if it changes, it's going to have consequences that's what systems do. So, tooling being built around these elements and they have to have hardened APIs that is clear. People who are trying to be "cloud native" need to get this right. And you have to have the tooling in and around the the element and then have APIs to connect and then glue up. So it's interesting. Clearly those things are happening and multiple conversations, people were teasing that out. And then obviously the super cloud was coming in. >> Is there. >> Mapbox is basically a super cloud. They're like what snowflake is for data analytics. They are for-- >> MongoDB is another one. >> MongoDB's got Atlas. I mean, MongoDB was criticized for years. Doesn't scale. Remember the old lamp stack days, they were preferred. They're document, they nailed it with document. The document aspects of data, but they were always getting criticized. They can't scale. And they just keep scaling. But now with Atlas, they're on AWS. It's just, auto scale. So that's killer for MongoDB. So I think their stock price is undervalued my opinion but you know, I don't give legal advice. >> I think that the whole notion of-- >> Or financial advice. >> The multicloud, right? So for a multicloud to kill that complexity of multicloud, we have to go to the what Dave Vellante and you guys say super cloud, right? Another level of abstraction on top of infrastructure provider by AWS, Google cloud, Azure. So that's where we're going. >> Well, Dave and I debate this right, he bundles multi-cloud in there and most people think that's what he's saying but I'm saying multi-cloud is a reality. I mean, multi-cloud means you're going to have multiple clouds. They're just not you're not sharing workloads across those clouds. It's like not the same workload. That's not going to yet happen. I run Azure because I have 365, that's it. I run Amazon for everything else. That's kind of the use case. But to me, super cloud is building on top of AWS or Azure where you leverage their CapEx and create differentiated value. It's your own cloud without all the CapEx but it's got to be like super integrated and the benefit's got to be so good that it seems like pennies to your point earlier. >> Yeah. >> And the economics to the applications in it are just so obvious and they got to be they got to be so big for the application developer. So that's to me is super cloud. And then of course having the connected tissue to manage the transit around multiple clouds. >> Yeah. I think they have it too. I totally agree with you. But another thing is from having the developer background I think the backward compatibility is a huge issue in cloud. >> Yeah. I agree. >> It's a lot of technical debt being built and I hear that, I'm hearing that more and more. I think that we have to solve as industry as like these three main players have to solve that problem. So that's one big thing, actually. I'm very like after, you know, like to talk about it and all that stuff. So yeah. It's another thing is another pattern actually to all the cloud naysayers out there, right? Is that those are the people who come from the hardware background. So I've seen another pattern out there. So I'm trying to synthesize, who are these people who bash cloud all the time? I'm pro-cloud of course everybody knows that. >> We know you're pro, we're all pro cloud. We're totally biased. We love cloud >> Actually. No, I've seen both sides. I've seen both sides. I've worked at EMC, VMware, I worked at Oracle cloud as well. And then, and before that I have written a lot of software. A software developer is pro-cloud. A typical hardware ops guy or girl, they are pro on-prem or pro hybrid and all that. Like they try to keep it there. >> I think first of all, I have opinion on this. I think, I think you're right. But how hardware is coming back, if you look at how cloud is enabling hardware, it's retro, it's designed for the cloud. So hardware's going to offload, either accelerate stuff and offload stuff from the software guide. So look at DeepRacer it's hardware. Now it's a car. You've got the silicon and the chips. So the chips you're talking about. Those aren't chips for service and the data center. They're just chips to make the software in the cloud run better. >> Sarbjeet: Well scale. >> So scaling. And so I think we're going to see a Renaissance in hardware. It's going to look different. It's going to act different. So we're watching this. I mean, you brought up the idea of having a CUBE hardware box. >> Yeah. It's a great idea. >> It's a good idea. DM me and tell me it's a bad idea or good idea. I'll blame Sarbjeet for that. But what else have you learned? >> What else have learnt actually it's basically boils down to economics at the end of the day. It's about moving fast. It's about having developer productivity, again going back the cloud naysayers. It's like, why did you build a bike? Remember Steve Job used to say that, "computer is the bicycle for the human minds." >> Yes. >> Right. So cloud is the bicycle for the enterprises. They makes them move faster. 'So I think that's-- >> All right. We're closing down. We're going to hold on until they pull the plug on theCUBE literally. Sarbjeet great to see you on there. Check 'em out on Twitter. Great event. Good to see you, great report. Thank for sharing. Sarbjeet Johal here on theCUBE, taking over our community site I hear, right? Now you going to work-- >> I'm there. I'm always there. >> Great to have you on. I'm going to work on some new things with theCUBE. Really appreciate working with us. Thanks a lot. >> I really appreciate you guys giving me this platform. It's an amazing platform. Thank you very much. >> That's all right. We'll be back. That's it for our coverage of AWS summit 2020 here live on the floor. Events are back. Hybrid's back. We get theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston. Re:invent at the end of the year but we're going to the summit in New York city. In the summer, we got re:Inforce in Boston the security conference. Re:MARS which is the robotics IML conference. And of course the big summit New York and San Francisco we're there of course. Share thecube.net for all the action. I'm John for your host with Sarbjeet here. Closing out the show. Thanks for watching. (Calm music)

(upbeat music) >> Good afternoon from Las Vegas. Lisa Martin, at The Cosmopolitan, here on day two of theCUBE's coverage of Coupa Inspire 2022. I'm excited to be joined by one of Coupa's many successful customers, Jaime Robles joins me, the chief procurement officer at Casey's General Stores. You're going to be talking about building a technology hub with source-to-pay and interconnecting ecosystem platforms. Welcome, Jaime. >> Thank you, Lisa. It's a pleasure to be here today in this week, hearing about Coupa and all the fabulous things that we can do around technology. >> Coupa is amazing, and in terms of their innovation, I don't know if you had a chance to see the Keynote this morning, but the slides that Raja showed with just the arrow going up and to the right. Talk to us a little bit about Casey's General Stores. This is the U.S's fourth largest convenience store retailer. But just for the audience who may not know, give us a background. >> So, just a little bit about Casey's. So, Casey's is, as you said, one of the largest convenience store chains out there. We got more than 2,500 locations in 16 states in the Midwest in the U.S. And just out of curiosity, we are the fifth largest pizza company as well. >> Lisa: Is that right? >> We make a great pizza and our guests love it. So, we are in three businesses. We are in convenience store, we are in fuel, and also we are in the food business, because we got a kitchen inside every single store that we got out there. So, for us it's been a fabulous journey with procurement, because we came to the company, joined the company two years ago in the middle of pandemic, and the whole idea was to build the procurement function from the ground up. Casey's didn't have a formal procurement function. So, pretty much, all the spend was done by the functions, by themselves, but no formal process, no technology, no platforms, nothing; very old school. And we came here to build a foundation and build, as I call it, a procurement tech house. >> A procurement tech house. So, talk to me, so I know that Casey's dates back to 1959, and what you described sounds like a lot of paper-based, manual processes; technology really wasn't in the mix. Is that what attracted you to take the role going, "I want to bring technology and build this powerhouse"? >> Yes, that was amazing. So, over my career, I've been doing this for several companies, such as in the past, in Phillips, G, and recently, with Walmart. And then, what attracted me for this opportunity was, well, everything is paper. Everything is manual. There's nothing digital in this company. There's no team, there's no sourcing, no process, no policies. It's like building everything from the ground up. So, it was very attractive. It's huge opportunities for the company, and we were going through this massive transformation to digitize the company all across the operations. So, procurement wasn't the core of those strategies for the CEO of the company, and that's what the opportunity lies. He was like, "How do we move from manual transactions to all this digital world?" and where, now everything is frictionless, that we move from 80%, 85%, that it was all manual. Now we are plus 65%, everything is digital now in the company, and just within one year of moving all over. So, the savings, the cost, the, the leakage, all the waste on the processes that we have, is just amazing, after one year. >> Sounds like the company had a cloud, a digitization strategy, brought you on board to help make that a reality for procurement. So, the appetite was there at Casey's from a cultural perspective, it wasn't battling uphill to get folks to go, "Let go of the paper. Let's go to Coupa." >> Yeah, that's the truth. So, it was the whole digital transformation for the company, not only on the procurement, spend side, but all the process in the company. So, as COVID hit our stores and the whole world, right? So, we had to move into more digital ordering, into more digital transaction, into more how my guests can interact with my stores without going to the stores, how they can order from the app, how they can get their food directly to their house, and all this stuff. And procurement was right there, hand to hand, as part of those strategies from the very beginning. And we were, I will say, very lucky to be on time to make all those digital transformations for the company, so when the COVID really hit, we were ready and prepared to take over. >> That's good, being ready and prepared. Oh my gosh. But some of the few people I've talked to. Talk to me about the core technology requirements that you had for the right BSM solution, and why Coupa ticked all those boxes. >> Yeah. So for us, it was one of the most important ones is as I said, bring the digital across the whole source to pay. Another big element for us, it was, how do we bring transparency into the process? How do we bring transparency on how much we pay, how do we spend our money, Which areas, which categories? We built a model in cases that are called, it's a self-service model. And this self service model is, I put the technology in its core, which is Coupa, and I give my users and my internal stakeholders all the power to take those decisions. So, now they can see how much they spend in different categories, with different suppliers, for the preferred vendors, what type of contracts do we have? And how do we manage that spend, versus the budget, as well? They have all that ability to take those decisions, and they don't need a procurement team. As I like to call, in my couple of speaker notes during this week, we like to make procurement invisible. We are in the back, they don't see us. And they got all the power to use the technology out there to do the job for us. >> Transparent, but empowered at the same time. >> Exactly, exactly. That's what we want, moving forward for this company. And I believe that is the vision that we got in the procurement 2.0. >> Procurement 2.0. Talk to me about some of the solutions that you implemented. You talked about source-to-pay, but give us kind of an idea if you double click on that, and then we'll kind of unpack ` what you talked about on your sessions. >> Yeah, pretty much, for Coupa, we implemented the whole source to pay. So, from sourcing, procurement, invoicing and payment. So, we implement all that at the core of the Coupa. I believe in an ecosystem of procurement technologies that are interconnected with Coupa, to interact for other needs, like contract lifecycle management, tail spend management, TNE, and some others that we're going after. Like, now for us, is going after supplier data hub, which for us is very important also to get it right. And that procurement ecosystem of different technologies connected is going to give us the ability to move faster, to be more lean and to have better data and technology accessible for the team that is in charge of procurement, to operate under that environment. >> You mentioned a few minutes ago that, when the pandemic hit, Casey's was ready, from a digital perspective. I imagine that was a huge advantage, going into such unknown times that we're still kind of in. >> Well, when I say ready, it's like, we were ready to go, and we were on the fly, implementing everything, and what the pandemic did is to accelerate all this. So, as many companies did, we were already in the process of going this direction, and when the pandemic start hitting, we accelerate everything, and we made it happen. So, we went live in three, four months, and a year later, we were completely live since we joined the company, and we were start seeing all this paying coming to ours. So, 18 months later, we are pretty much hitting best in class levels in terms of transactional, operational, tactical, savings, visibility, spend, transparency, risk management. Now we're going to take it to the next level of the maturity. It's like, how do we go for ESG? How do we go for supplier diversity? How do we manage risk management? Right? And all those things. >> You had a couple of presentations here at Inspire, talk to me about those, and some of the top takeaways that the audience gleaned from you. >> Yeah, one of the most important ones yesterday was about how to build a procurement organization from the ground up, or how to go through a digital transformation in procurement. That is something that has been on the topic on the procurement community for years now. Everybody talks about procurement transformation, et cetera. And I just showed to them, my journey in the companies that I've been doing this for the last two decades, across the world, in many different countries, and the things that work and the and the things that doesn't work, really. And how they need to build, for the future of procurement, a technology procurement house on the core. And that's how you operate day to day. And for us, organization was Coupa. And then on top of that, you need to build a procurement ops model, right? How you want to operate your procurement operating model. So, it's centralized, decentralized, a hybrid model. And it all depends about the type of company, the type of industry you are, how material is your organization, et cetera. And another big, big element in all your strategy is, how you're going to serve your customers, right? What type of service model do you have in place? If you're going to be like a full service mode, or you going to be in a strategic direction, or you going to be a self-service mode. And pretty much, what we have chosen as the best way to move forward in the future is, let's put the technology in the middle. Let's give the support our users need, but let them be self-service, and let's make our job invisible in the back, where we have all these sourcing events, all these beautiful negotiations, all these great deals, contracts, et cetera. So, by the time they use the technology, they know where to buy, how to buy, what's the right level, how to make it happen, and they don't need us. They can do it by their own. >> And they've got that visibility, that before, it sounds like they didn't have it at all. >> Exactly, so now we know how much we spend, where do we spend, and where are the opportunities? Where are some gaps that we can go after, as well? And I think one of the most important aspects in these transformations that many of my colleagues are going through is, then you have a model that you can repeat year over year and evolve with the company, so it's agile and it's flexible. Because companies keep evolving. You buy business, you sell business, you acquire, you expand, you grow, and how that model is going to shape around. So, by the time you're done, it's not obsolete again. So, technology is going to keep evolving with your model, and that for me, is the key part in all this. >> Do you feel like, this is a marketing term; future-proof, and it always is one of those things that, well what does that actually really mean? Do you feel though that, what you've put in place is future-proof? That it's going to be able to grow and scale as the company changes? >> Jaime: Totally, totally. Because as I said before, we put the technology on the core. And for us, having that technology on the core, and plugging different technologies around that and sourcing around that with our amazing sourcing team, is going to evolve whatever the company needs. If we expand into different regions, we're ready. If we expand into different business types, we're ready. I believe what we need to keep evolving, as well, is, there will be new emerging technologies. There's going to be way more AI. There's going to be way more machine learning. There's going to be more predictive analytic sourcing stuff. How do we keep pulling those technologies into our platforms to keep giving us that advantage and that edge to the market? I think we have the model, and I think it's one of the most advanced procurement functions that I've seen in the industries around. >> And it sounds like you designed and deployed it really quickly, >> We did. >> especially during a global crisis. >> Yeah, we are disruptors by nature. We love change. We love speed. And that is, I will say my procurement brand. We make it happen and we make it fast. That's how we do it. We keep momentum. >> That's incredibly important. I mean, one of the things that we've learned, many things the last two years, a couple things. Access to realtime data is no longer a "nice to have." It's absolutely business critical. The patience of many people, including myself, was quite thin, the last two years. But also, every company has to be a data company. Casey's has to be a data company. If I have the ability to order from my app, or order things, I want them to know when I'm here for, what I ordered before; make my visit personalized, efficient, easy. So, that data strategy, having that data at the core, is nowadays, you have to have it. >> It is essential. We're building a data hub for the company, completely showing us all that information. As you can imagine, being in those three business, on the food industry, on the retail convenience store, and in the fuel, so data for us is our living breath every single day. And not only having the data now, it's like, what type of decisions we're taking with all this data? And how fast we are adapting to all that, in pricing, in cost, in margin and availability and inventory and logistics and transportation, and in your whole supply chain. So, that is extremely important for us. Not only having the data, but what kind of decisions we're taking with the data, and everything starts with the transparency right? Whenever you see it, you act. >> You should be able to act, but to your point, you have to have that visibility. You have to be able to see it and act on it. Talk to me about what it's like being a Coupa customer. I know how I've been to many Inspires, and I always love seeing all the customer success stories everywhere across industries. What's it like being a Coupa customer, in terms of having the ability to influence, say, the roadmap? Is that something that you're able to work on in partnership with Raj's team? >> Yeah, that's great. So, Coupa has been a great company to work with, and I know them for some years now, and not only they been able to support our vision of what we're trying to build, but at the same time they're taking many of our feedback to make Coupa better, in many of the different models. Listen, Coupa's not perfect, right? And I don't think any tool out there is going to be perfect. But being in so many different industries and with so many opportunities in different areas, they've been able to take our feedback and make those improvements for ourselves. We have so many conversations with the Coupa product development team when we were going through a transformation, asking them for things that we thought it was very valuable to have on the tool, that was in our, in our eyes, no brainer, and they were very, very fast to react and make the change. And we are, I think, one of the most lousy customers, guilty as charged about that, but we just wanted to make it better because it's a benefit of the whole community. Everything that we've been talking this week about community AI, it's amazing. All the things that we're sharing during this week, all the ideas that we are getting about things that we can do. That's amazing. That's the value. >> It's huge value. And that's that sort of flywheel of the community and the power and the insights. Last question for you. If you talk to peers, or when you talk to peers who are maybe starting their procurement digitization journey, what advice do you give them? >> Don't take a no as an answer. Make it happen. Own it. Own it. I think you need to have a vision. You need to put in strategy in place. You need to build a business case. You need to earn your seat at the table at the C-suite. But you need to own it. You cannot let the IT, function, finance community too long, and decide how you want to operate and how you want to move your function as procurement, or build how you operate. You need to own it, and you need to build a business case and you need to make it happen. You need to, yeah. To struggle with that. But if you are a hustler, as we are in cases, we are disruptors. And if you don't disrupt, it's not going to happen. >> I completely agree. Own it, make it happen. Jaime, great to have you on the program. >> Jaime: Thanks so much. >> Thanks for hearing what Casey's is doing, how you're really leading the charge, and how you owned it and made it happen. That's awesome. >> Thank you, Lisa. Thank you for being here. >> Thanks. For Jaime Robles, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE's coverage day two, Coupa Inspire 22, from Las Vegas. Join me with my next guest, coming up shortly. (lighthearted upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hello, and welcome back to AWS Startup Showcase, I'm John Furrier, your host. This is the Hero panel, the AWS Heroes. These are folks that have a lot of experience in Open Source, having fun building great projects and commercializing the value and best practices of Open Source innovation. We've got some great guests here. Liz Rice, Chief Open Source Officer, Isovalent. CUBE alumni, great to see you. Brian LeRoux, who is the Co-founder and CTO of begin.com. Erica Windisch who's an Architect for Developer Experience. AWS Hero, also CUBE alumni. Casey Lee, CTO Gaggle. Doing some great stuff in ed tech. Great collection of experts and experienced folks doing some fun stuff, welcome to this conversation this CUBE panel. >> Hi. >> Thanks for having us. >> Hello. >> Let's go down the line. >> I don't normally do this, but since we're remote and we have such great guests, go down the line and talk about why Open Source is important to you guys. What projects are you currently working on? And what's the coolest thing going on there? Liz we'll start with you. >> Okay, so I am very involved in the world of Cloud Native. I'm the chair of the technical oversight committee for the Cloud Native Computing Foundation. So that means I get to see a lot of what's going on across a very broad range of Cloud Native projects. More specifically, Isovalent. I focus on Cilium, which is it's based on a technology called EBPF. That is to me, probably the most exciting technology right now. And then finally, I'm also involved in an organization called OpenUK, which is really pushing for more use of open technologies here in the United Kingdom. So spread around lots of different projects. And I'm in a really fortunate position, I think, to see what's happening with lots of projects and also the commercialization of lots of projects. >> Awesome, Brian what project are you working on? >> Working project these days called Architect. It's a Open Source project built on top of AWSM. It adds a lot of sugar and terseness to the SM experience and just makes it a lot easier to work with and get started. AWS can be a little bit intimidating to people at times. And the Open Source community is stepping up to make some of that bond ramp a little bit easier. And I'm also an Apache member. And so I keep a hairy eyeball on what's going on in that reality all the time. And I've been doing this open-source thing for quite a while, and yeah, I love it. It's a great thing. It's real science. We get to verify each other's work and we get to expand and build on human knowledge. So that's a huge honor to just even be able to do that and I feel stoked to be here so thanks for having me. >> Awesome, yeah, and totally great. Erica, what's your current situation going on here? What's happening? >> Sure, so I am currently working on developer experience of a number of Open Source STKS and CLI components from my current employer. And previously, recently I left New Relic where I was working on integrating with OpenTelemetry, as well as a number of other things. Before that I was a maintainer of Docker and of OpenStack. So I've been in this game for a while as well. And I tend to just put my fingers in a lot of little pies anywhere from DVD players 20 years ago to a lot of this open telemetry and monitoring and various STKs and developer tools is where like Docker and OpenStack and the STKs that I work on now, all very much focusing on developer as the user. >> Yeah, you're always on the wave, Erica great stuff. Casey, what's going on? Do you got some great ed techs happening? What's happening with you? >> Yeah, sure. The primary Open Source project that I'm contributing to right now is ACT. This is a tool I created a couple of years back when GitHub Actions first came out, and my motivation there was I'm just impatient. And that whole commit, push, wait time where you're testing out your pipelines is painful. And so I wanted to build a tool that allowed developers to test out their GitHub Actions workflows locally. And so this tool uses Docker containers to emulate, to get up action environment and gives you fast feedback on those workflows that you're building. Lot of innovation happening at GitHub. And so we're just trying to keep up and continue to replicate those new features functionalities in the local runner. And the biggest challenge I've had with this project is just keeping up with the community. We just passed 20,000 stars, and it'd be it's a normal week to get like 10 PRs. So super excited to announce just yesterday, actually I invited four of the most active contributors to help me with maintaining the project. And so this is like a big deal for me, letting the project go and bringing other people in to help lead it. So, yeah, huge shout out to those folks that have been helping with driving that project. So looking forward to what's next for it. >> Great, we'll make sure the SiliconANGLE riders catch that quote there. Great call out. Let's start, Brian, you made me realize when you mentioned Apache and then you've been watching all the stuff going on, it brings up the question of the evolution of Open Source, and the commercialization trends have been very interesting these days. You're seeing CloudScale really impact also with the growth of code. And Liz, if you remember, the Linux Foundation keeps making projections and they keep blowing past them every year on more and more code and more and more entrance coming in, not just individuals, corporations. So you starting to see Netflix donates something, you got Lyft donate some stuff, becomes a project company forms around it. There's a lot of entrepreneurial activity that's creating this new abstraction layers, new platforms, not just tools. So you start to see a new kickup trajectory with Open Source. You guys want to comment on this because this is going to impact how fast the enterprise will see value here. >> I think a really great example of that is a project called Backstage that's just come out of Spotify. And it's going through the incubation process at the CNCF. And that's why it's front of mind for me right now, 'cause I've been working on the due diligence for that. And the reason why I thought it was interesting in relation to your question is it's spun out of Spotify. It's fully Open Source. They have a ton of different enterprises using it as this developer portal, but they're starting to see some startups emerging offering like a hosted managed version of Backstage or offering services around Backstage or offering commercial plugins into Backstage. And I think it's really fascinating to see those ecosystems building up around a project and different ways that people can. I'm a big believer. You cannot sell the Open Source code, but you can sell other things that create value around Open Source projects. So that's really exciting to see. >> Great point. Anyone else want to weigh in and react to that? Because it's the new model. It's not the old way. I mean, I remember when I was in college, we had the Pirate software. Open Source wasn't around. So you had to deal under the table. Now it's free. But I mean the old way was you had to convince the enterprise, like you've got a hard knit, it builds the community and the community manage the quality of the code. And then you had to build the company to make sure they could support it. Now the companies are actually involved in it, right? And then new startups are forming faster. And the proof points are shorter and highly accelerated for that. I mean, it's a whole new- >> It's a Cambrian explosion, and it's great. It's one of those things that it's challenging for the new developers because they come in and they're like, "Whoa, what is all this stuff that I'm supposed to figure out?" And there's no right answer and there's no wrong answer. There's just tons of it. And I think that there's a desire for us to have one sort of well-known trot and happy path, that audience we're a lot better with a more diverse community, with lots of options, with lots of ways to approach these problems. And I think it's just great. A challenge that we have with all these options and all these Cambrian explosion of projects and all these competing ideas, right now, the sustainability, it's a bit of a tricky question to answer. We know that there's a commercialization aspect that helps us fund these projects, but how we compose the open versus the commercial source is still a bit of a tricky question and a tough one for a lot of folks. >> Erica, would you chime in on that for a second. I want to get your angle on that, this experience and all this code, and I'm a new person, I'm an existing person. Do I get like a blue check mark and verify? I mean, these are questions like, well, how do you navigate? >> Yeah, I think this has been something happening for a while. I mean, back in the early OpenStack days, 2010, for instance, Rackspace Open Sourcing, OpenStack and ANSU Labs and so forth, and then trying, having all these companies forming in creating startups around this. I started at a company called Cloudccaling back in late 2010, and we had some competitors such as Piston and so forth where a lot of the ANSUL Labs people went. But then, the real winners, I think from OpenStack ended up being the enterprises that jumped in. We had Red Hat in particular, as well as HP and IBM jumping in and investing in OpenStack, and really proving out a lot of... not that it was the first time, but this is when we started seeing billions of dollars pouring into Open Source projects and Open Source Foundations, such as the OpenStack Foundation, which proceeded a lot of the things that we now see with the Linux Foundation, which was then created a little bit later. And at the same time, I'm also reflecting a little bit what Brian said because there are projects that don't get funded, that don't get the same attention, but they're also getting used quite significantly. Things like Log4j really bringing this to the spotlight in terms of projects that are used everywhere by everything with significant outsized impacts on the industry that are not getting funded, that aren't flashy enough, that aren't exciting enough because it's just logging, but a vulnerability in it brings every everything and everybody down and has possibly billions of dollars of impact to our industry because nobody wanted to fund this project. >> I think that brings up the commercialization point about maybe bringing a venture capital model in saying, "Hey, that boring little logging thing could be a key ingredient for say solving some observability problems so I think let's put some cash." Again then we'd never seen that before. Now you're starting to see that kind of a real smart investment thesis going into Open Source projects. I mean, Promethease, Crafter, these are projects that turned off companies. This is turning up companies. >> A decade ago, there was no money in Dev tools that I think that's been fully debunked now. They used to be a concept that the venture community believed, but there's just too much evidence to the contrary, the companies like Cash Court, Datadog, the list goes on and on. I think the challenge for the Open Source (indistinct) comes back to foundations and working (indistinct) these developers make this code safe and secure. >> Casey, what's your reaction to all of this? You've got, so a project has gained some traction, got some momentum. There's a lot of mission critical. I won't say white spaces, but the opportunities in the big cloud game happening. And there's a lot of, I won't say too many entrepreneurial, but there's a lot of community action happening that's precommercialization that's getting traction. How does this all develop naturally and then vector in quickly when it hits? >> Yeah, I want to go back to the Log4j topic real quick. I think that it's a great example of an area that we need to do better at. And there was a cool article that Rob Pike wrote describing how to quantify the criticality. I think that's sort of quantifying criticality was the article he wrote on how to use metrics, to determine how valuable, how important a piece of Open Source is to the community. And we really need to highlight that more. We need a way to make it more clear how important this software is, how many people depend on it and how many people are contributing to it. And because right now we all do that. Like if I'm going to evaluate an Open Source software, sure, I'll look at how many stars it has and how many contributors it has. But I got to go through and do all that work myself and come up with. It would be really great if we had an agreed upon method for ranking the criticality of software, but then also the risk, hey, that this is used by a ton of people, but nobody's contributing to it anymore. That's a concern. And that would be great to potential users of that to signal whether or not it makes sense. The Open Source Security Foundation, just getting off the ground, they're doing some work in this space, and I'm really excited to see where they go with that looking at ways to stop score critically. >> Well, this brings up a good point while we've got everyone here, let's take a plug and plug a project you think that's not getting the visibility it needs. Let's go through each of you, point out a project that you think people should be looking at and talking about that might get some free visibility here. Anyone want to highlight projects they think should be focused more on, or that needs a little bit of love? >> I think, I mean, particularly if we're talking about these sort of vulnerability issues, there's a ton of work going on, like in the Secure Software Foundation, other foundations, I think there's work going on in Apache somewhere as well around the bill of material, the software bill of materials, the Secure Software supply chain security, even enumerating your dependencies is not trivial today. So I think there's going to be a ton of people doing really good work on that, as well as the criticality aspect. It's all like that. There's a really great xkcd cartoon with your software project and some really big monolithic lumps. And then, this tiny little piece in a very important point that's maintained by somebody in his bedroom in Montana or something and if you called it out. >> Yeah, you just opened where the next lightening and a bottle comes from. And this is I think the beauty of Open Source is that you get a little collaboration, you get three feet in a cloud of dust going and you get some momentum, and if it's relevant, it rises to the top. I think that's the collective intelligence of Open Source. The question I want to ask that the panel here is when you go into an enterprise, and now that the game is changing with a much more collaborative and involved, what's the story if they say, hey, what's in it for me, how do I manage the Open Source? What's the current best practice? Because there's no doubt I can't ignore it. It's in everything we do. How do I organize around it? How do I build around it to be more efficient and more productive and reduce the risk on vulnerabilities to managing staff, making sure the right teams in place, the right agility and all those things? >> You called it, they got to get skin in the game. They need to be active and involved and donating to a sustainable Open Source project is a great way to start. But if you really want to be active, then you should be committing. You should have a goal for your organization to be contributing back to that project. Maybe not committing code, it could be committing resources into the darks or in the tests, or even tweeting about an Open Source project is contributing to it. And I think a lot of these enterprises could benefit a lot from getting more active with the Open Source Foundations that are out there. >> Liz, you've been actively involved. I know we've talked personally when the CNCF started, which had a great commercial uptake from companies. What do you think the current state-of-the-art kind of equation is has it changed a little bit? Or is it the game still the same? >> Yeah, and in the early days of the CNCF, it was very much dominated by vendors behind the project. And now we're seeing more and more membership from end-user companies, the kind of enterprises that are building their businesses on Cloud Native, but their business is not in itself. That's not there. The infrastructure is not their business. And I think seeing those companies, putting money in, putting time in, as Brian says contributing resources quite often, there's enough money, but finding the talent to do the work and finding people who are prepared to actually chop the wood and carry the water, >> Exactly. >> that it's hard. >> And if enterprises can find peoples to spend time on Open Source projects, help with those chores, it's hugely valuable. And it's one of those the rising tide floats all the boats. We can raise security, we can reduce the amount of dependency on maintain projects collectively. >> I think the business models there, I think one of the things I'll react to and then get your guys' comments is remember which CubeCon it was, it was one of the early ones. And I remember seeing Apple having a booth, but nobody was manning. It was just an Apple booth. They weren't doing anything, but they were recruiting. And I think you saw the transition of a business model where the worry about a big vendor taking over a project and having undue influence over it goes away because I think this idea of participation is also talent, but also committing that talent back into the communities as a model, as a business model, like, okay, hire some great people, but listen, don't screw up the Open Source piece of it 'cause that's a critical. >> Also hire a channel, right? They can use those contributions to source that talent and build the reputation in the communities that they depend on. And so there's really a lot of benefit to the larger organizations that can do this. They'll have a huge pipeline of really qualified engineers right out the gate without having to resort to cheesy whiteboard interviews, which is pretty great. >> Yeah, I agree with a lot of this. One of my concerns is that a lot of these corporations tend to focus very narrowly on certain projects, which they feel that they depend greatly, they'll invest in OpenStack, they'll invest in Docker, they'll invest in some of the CNCF projects. And then these other projects get ignored. Something that I've been a proponent of for a little bit for a while is observability of your dependencies. And I don't think there's quite enough projects and solutions to this. And it sounds maybe from lists, there are some projects that I don't know about, but I also know that there's some startups like Snyk and so forth that help with a little bit of this problem, but I think we need more focus on some of these edges. And I think companies need to do better, both in providing, having some sort of solution for observability of the dependencies, as well as understanding those dependencies and managing them. I've seen companies for instance, depending on software that they actively don't want to use based on a certain criteria that they already set projects, like they'll set a requirement that any project that they use has a code of conduct, but they'll then use projects that don't have codes of conduct. And if they don't have a code of conduct, then employees are prohibited from working on those projects. So you've locked yourself into a place where you're depending on software that you have instructed, your employees are not allowed to contribute to, for certain legal and other reasons. So you need to draw a line in the sand and then recognize that those projects are ones that you don't want to consume, and then not use them, and have observability around these things. >> That's a great point. I think we have 10 minutes left. I want to just shift to a topic that I think is relevant. And that is as Open Source software, software, people develop software, you see under the hood kind of software, SREs developing very quickly in the CloudScale, but also you've got your classic software developers who were writing code. So you have supply chain, software supply chain challenges. You mentioned developer experience around how to code. You have now automation in place. So you've got the development of all these things that are happening. Like I just want to write software. Some people want to get and do infrastructure as code so DevSecOps is here. So how does that look like going forward? How has the future of Open Source going to make the developers just want to code quickly? And the folks who want to tweak the infrastructure a bit more efficient, any views on that? >> At Gaggle, we're using AWS' CDK, exclusively for our infrastructure as code. And it's a great transition for developers instead of writing Yammel or Jason, or even HCL for their infrastructure code, now they're writing code in the language that they're used to Python or JavaScript, and what that's providing is an easier transition for developers into that Infrastructure as code at Gaggle here, but it's also providing an opportunity to provide reusable constructs that some Devs can build on. So if we've got a very opinionated way to deploy a serverless app in a database and do auto-scaling behind and all stuff, we can present that to a developer as a library, and they can just consume it as it is. Maybe that's as deep as they want to go and they're happy with that. But then they want to go deeper into it, they can either use some of the lower level constructs or create PRs to the platform team to have those constructs changed to fit their needs. So it provides a nice on-ramp developers to use the tools and languages they're used to, and then also go deeper as they need. >> That's awesome. Does that mean they're not full stack developers anymore that they're half stack developers they're taking care of for them? >> I don't know either. >> We'll in. >> No, only kidding. Anyway, any other reactions to this whole? I just want to code, make it easy for me, and some people want to get down and dirty under the hood. >> So I think that for me, Docker was always a key part of this. I don't know when DevSecOps was coined exactly, but I was talking with people about it back in 2012. And when I joined Docker, it was a part of that vision for me, was that Docker was applying these security principles by default for your application. It wasn't, I mean, yes, everybody adopted because of the portability and the acceleration of development, but it was for me, the fact that it was limiting what you could do from a security angle by default, and then giving you these tuna balls that you can control it further. You asked about a project that may not get enough recognition is something called DockerSlim, which is designed to optimize your containers and will make them smaller, but it also constraints the security footprint, and we'll remove capabilities from the container. It will help you build security profiles for app armor and the Red Hat one. SELinux. >> SELinux. >> Yeah, and this is something that I think a lot of developers, it's kind of outside of the realm of things that they're really thinking about. So the more that we can automate those processes and make it easier out of the box for users or for... when I say users, I mean, developers, so that it's straightforward and automatic and also giving them the capability of refining it and tuning it as needed, or simply choosing platforms like serverless offerings, which have these security constraints built in out of the box and sometimes maybe less tuneable, but very strong by default. And I think that's a good place for us to be is where we just enforced these things and make you do things in a secure way. >> Yeah, I'm a huge fan of Kubernetes, but it's not the right hammer for every nail. And there are absolutely tons of applications that are better served by something like Lambda where a lot more of that security surface is taken care of for the developer. And I think we will see better tooling around security profiling and making it easier to shrink wrap your applications that there are plenty of products out there that can help you with this in a cloud native environment. But I think for the smaller developer let's say, or an earlier stage company, yeah, it needs to be so much more straightforward. Really does. >> Really an interesting time, 10 years ago, when I was working at Adobe, we used to requisition all these analysts to tell us how many developers there were for the market. And we thought there was about 20 million developers. If GitHub's to be believed, we think there is now around 80 million developers. So both these groups are probably wrong in their numbers, but the takeaway here for me is that we've got a lot of new developers and a lot of these new developers are really struck by a paradox of choice. And they're typically starting on the front end. And so there's a lot of movement in the stack moved towards the front end. We saw that at re:Invent when Amazon was really pushing Amplify 'cause they're seeing this too. It's interesting because this is where folks start. And so a lot of the obstructions are moving in that direction, but maybe not always necessarily totally appropriate. And so finding the right balance for folks is still a work in progress. Like Lambda is a great example. It lets me focus totally on just business logic. I don't have to think about infrastructure pretty much at all. And if I'm newer to the industry, that makes a lot of sense to me. As use cases expand, all of a sudden, reality intervenes, and it might not be appropriate for everything. And so figuring out what those edges are, is still the challenge, I think. >> All right, thank you very much for coming on the CUBE here panel. AWS Heroes, thanks everyone for coming. I really appreciate it, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Thanks for having me. >> Okay, that's a wrap here back to the program and the awesome startups. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>you welcome to the cubes, continuing coverage of Splunk dot com. 21 I'm lisa martin of a couple guests here with me. Next talking about Splunk H P E N. Deloitte, please welcome Casey Clark, Managing Director and chief architect at Deloitte and Elias Alanya Master Technologists Office of the North American C T O at H P E. Guys welcome to the program. Great to have you. >>Thank you lisa. It's great to be here. >>Thanks lisa >>Here we still are in this virtual world the last 18 months, so many challenges, some opportunities, some silver linings but some of the big challenges that organizations are facing this rapid shift to remote work. The rapid acceleration In digital transformation ran somewhere up nearly 11 x in the first half of this year alone. Solar winds talk to me about some of the challenges that organizations are facing and how you're helping them deal with that Casey >>we'll start with you So most of our clients as we move to virtual um have accelerated their adoption of multiple cloud platforms. You know, moving into a W S into Azure into google. And one of the biggest challenges is in this distributed environment, they still have significant workloads on prem Part of the workloads are in office 3 65. Part of them are in salesforce part of them they're moving into AWS or big data workloads into google. How do you make this all manageable from both. A security point of view and accelerating threats. Uh make that much worse but also from an operational point of view, you know, how do I do application performance management when I have workloads in the cloud calling. Api is back on prem into the mainframe. How do I make an operationally when I have tons of containers and virtual machines operating out there? So the importance of Splunk and good log management observe ability along with all the security management and the security logs and being able to monitor for your environment in this complex distributed environment is absolutely critical and it's just going to get more complex as we get more distributed. >>How can companies given the complexity? How can companies with these complicated I. T. Landscapes get ahead of some of these issues? >>One of the things that we really focused on making sure that you're getting ahead of those and you know we work with organizations like Splunk and Deloitte is how do we how do we collect all of the data? Not just a little bit of it, you know Splunk, help and Deloitte are helping us look across all of those places. We want to make sure that we can can really ingest everything that's out there and then let the tools like Splunk then use all of that data. We found a lot of organizations really struggle with that and with the retention of that data it's been a challenge. So those are things that we really worked hard on figuring out with organizations out there um how to how to ingest retain and then modernize how they do those things at the same time. >>I was reading the Splunk state of Security report which they surveyed over 500 security leaders I think it was over nine um global economies and they said 78% of security and I. T. Leaders worry 78% that they're going to be hit by something like solar winds. Um That style of attack Splunk saying security is a data problem but also looking at all this talk about being on the defensive and preventing attacks the threat landscape escaping companies also have to plan for growth. They have to plan for agility. How do you both help them accomplished? Both at the same time Casey will start with you. >>Well fundamentally on the security front you start with security by design. You're designing the logging the monitoring the defenses into the systems as they are being designed up front as opposed to adding them when you get to Um you know you 80 or production environment. So security by design much like devops and Fc cops is pushing that attitude towards security back earlier in the process so that each of the systems as we're developing them um have the defenses that are needed and have the logging that are embedded in them and the standards for logging so that you don't just get a lot of different kinds of data you get the data you actually need coming into the system and then setting up the correlation of that data so you can identify those threats early through a i through predictive analytics, you get to identify things more quickly. You know, it's all about reducing cycle times and getting better information by designing it in from the beginning, >>standing in from the beginning that shifting left Elias. What are your thoughts about this, enabling that defense, designing an upfront and also enabling organizations to have the agility to grow and expand? >>Yes, sort of reminded of something our friends with the Blue oval used to say in manufacturing quality isn't inspected, it's built in right and and two cases point you have to build it in. We've we've definitely worked with delight to do that and we've set up systems so that they have true agility. We've done things like container ice block with kubernetes uh you know, work with object storage. A lot of the new modern technologies that maybe organizations aren't quite accustomed to yet are still getting on board with. And so we wrap those up in our HP Green Lake managed services so that we can provide those things to organizations that aren't maybe aren't ready for them yet. But the threat landscape is such that you have to be able to do those things if you're not orchestrating these thousands and thousands of containers with something like kubernetes, it's just it becomes such a manual labor intensive process. And so that that labor intensive, non automated process. That's the thing that we're trying to remove. >>Well that's an inhibitor to growth, right number one there, let's go ahead and dig into the HP. Deloitte Splunk solution case. I'm going to go back over to, you talk to me about kind of the catalyst for developing the solution and then we'll dig into it in terms of what it's delivering. >>So Deloitte has had long term partnerships with both H B E and Splunk and we're very excited about working together with them on this solution. Um the HP Green Light, which is hardware by subscription, the flexibility of that platform, you know, the cost effectiveness of the platform. Be able to run workloads like Splunk on it that are constantly changing. You have peaks and valleys depending on, you know, how much work you're doing, how many logs are coming in and so being able to expand that environment quickly through containerized architecture, Oz Funk, which is what we worked on, um you know, with the HP Green Light team uh and and also with spunk so that we can Federated the workloads and everything that's going on on prem with workloads that are in the cloud and doing it very flexibly with the HP on prim platform as well as, you know, Splunk on google and Azure and Splunk cloud um and then having one pane of glass that goes across all of it has been very exciting. You know, we were getting lots of interest in the demo of what we've done on the Green light platform and the partnership has been going great, uh >>that single pane of glass is so critical. We talked about cloud complexity a few minutes ago, customers are dealing with so many different applications there now in this hybrid multi cloud world, it's probably only going to proliferate, Let's talk to me about H P. S perspective and how you're going to help reduce the cloud complexity that customers in every industry are facing. >>Yeah, so within the HP Green Lake umbrella of portfolio, we have set up our uh admiral container platform, for example, are Green Lake management services. We bring all these things together in a way that that really can accelerate applications uh that can make the magic that Deloitte does work underneath. And so when, when our friends at Deloitte go and build something, someone has to, has to bring that to life, has to run it for for our customers. And so that's what Hb Green Lake does, then we do that in a way that fundamentally aligns to the business cycles that go on. And so, uh you know, we think of cloud as an operating model, not necessarily just a physical destination. And so we work on prem Coehlo public hybrid Green Lake spans across all of those and can bring together in a way that really helps customers. We've seen so many times, they have these silos and islands of data. Um you know, you've got uh data being generated in the cloud. Well, you need Splunk in the cloud, you've got the energy generated in uh, Amelia, Well you've got spunk into me and so so Deloitte's really done some great things to help us put that together and then we, we underpin that with the, with the green like uh management services with our software and our infrastructure to make it all >>work. Yeah, Elias, one of the areas that you just mentioned is is one of the hottest trends that we've noticed out there. A lot of clients, you know, with the competition for skilled resources out there on the engineering side and operations are looking at managed services as an option to building, you know, their own technology, you know, hiring their own team, running it themselves and the work that we do with both on the security side as well as operations to provide managed services for our clients in collaboration with companies like HP E and running of the Green Lake platform platforms as well as one cloud, those combined services together and delivered as a managed service uh to our clients is an exciting trend out there that um, is increasingly seen as very cost effective for our clients >>saving cost is key case. I want to get your perspective on what you think differentiates this, this solution, the technology alliance, what are the differentiators in this from Deloitte's lens. >>So bringing the expertise of a company like HP and the flexibility and expand ability of the Green lake platform and the container ization that they've done with Israel, you know, it's, it's bringing that cloud like automation and virtual and flexibility to on uh, the on prem and the hybrid cloud solution combined with Splunk who is rapidly expanding not only what they do in the security space where the constantly changing security landscape out there, but also in observe ability application, performance management, um, Ai ops, um, you know, fully automated and integrated response to operational events that are out there. So HP is doing what they do really well and adapting to this new world. Splunk is constantly changing their products to make it easier for us to go after those operational issues. And Deloitte is coming in with both the industry and the technical experience to bring it all together, you know, how do you log the right things, you know, how do you identify, you know, the real signal versus the noise out there? You know, when you're collecting massive amounts of log data, you know, how do you make it actionable? How can you automate those actions? So by bringing together all three of these berms together, uh we can bring a much better, much, much more effective solutions to our clients in much shorter time frames, >>Shorter time frames are key given that one of the things we've learned in the last 18 months, is that real time is really business critical for companies in every industry unless I want to get your perspective from a technology lens, talk to me about the differentiators here, what this solution is three way alliance brings to your customers. >>Yeah, sure thing. We've done a lot of work with Deloitte and with Intel also on performance optimization, which is, is key for any application and that gets to what I mentioned earlier of bringing more data in some of the work that we've done with until we've able been able to accelerate Are the ingest rate of Splunk by about 17 times, which is pretty incredible. Uh, and that allows us to do more or do more with less and that can help reduce the cost. Also done a lot of work on the, on the setup side. So there's a lot of complexities in running a big enterprise application like Splunk. Um, it does a lot of great things but with that comes some complications for sure. And so, uh, a lot of the work that we've done is to help really make this production ready at scale disaster tolerance and bring all of those things together. And that >>requires a fair amount of >>work on the back end to make sure that we can, we can do that at scale and, and to be a, you know, to run, you know, in a way that businesses of significant size can take advantage of these things without having to worry about what happens if I lose a data center or what happens if I lose a region. Um And and to do those things with absolute assurance >>That's critical case you have a question for you. How will this solution help facilitate one of the positives that we've seen during the last 18 months and that is the strengthening of the IT security relationship. What are your thoughts there? >>I think one of the important things here is that the standardization and automation of what we're what we're bringing together you know so that security can monitor all the different things that are being configured because I can go in and look at the automation that it's creating them. So we have a very dynamic environment now with the new cloud based and virtualized environment so going in and manually configuring anything anymore. It's just not possible. Not when you're managing tens of thousands of servers out there. So security working together very closely with operations and collaborating on that automation so that the managed services are are configured right from the beginning as we talked about security about design. Operations by design in the beginning it's that early collaboration and that shift left that is giving us the very close collaboration that results in good telemetry, good visibility you know good reaction times on the other end. >>That collaboration is something that we've also seen is really a key theme that's emerged I think from all of us in every industry in the last 18 months. And I want to punt the last question to you and that's where can customers go to learn more information? How do they get started with this solution? >>A great way to get started is to reach out to our partners like Deloitte, they can help you on that journey. Hp. Es there, of course. Hp dot com. We have a number of white papers, collateral presentations, reference architecture is you name it, it's out there. But really every organization is unique. Every every challenge that we come up with always requires a little bit of hard thinking and and so that's why we have the partnership >>to be able to work with customers and collaborate. I'll say to really identify what their challenges are, how they help them in this very dynamic. No doubt continuing to be dynamic market. Thank you both so much for joining me talking to me about what Deloitte Splunk NHP are doing, how you're helping customers address that cloud complexity from the security lens, the operations lens. We appreciate your time. >>Thanks lisa. Thank you lisa tonight >>For my guests. I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching the cubes coverage of splunk.com 21. Yeah. Mhm

(upbeat music) >> Okay, I'm back. I'm John Furrier with theCube. We're here in the middle of the action at Mobile World Congress at Cloud City is where the action is. Danielle Royston and Telco DR. Digital disruption here happening. This next interview I did with Casey Choi, the Executive Vice President at Samsung. I did this remotely. He couldn't be here in person. We wanted to bring him in for a conversation. I had a chance to record this with him. He talks about the intelligent Human Edge or Industry 4.0. It was about Edge computing, Samsung as a leader. Obviously we know what they do. They're part of this IOT revolution, Casey Choi, brilliant executive I really enjoyed my conversation. Take a listen. (upbeat music) Welcome to theCube's coverage of Mobile World Congress, 2021. I'm John Furrier host of theCube. We're here with Cube alumni, Casey Choi's Executive Vice President and GM of the Global Mobile B2B Team, Communications Team at Samsung. Casey, great to see you. Thank you for coming off for the special Remote Mobile World Congress. We're here in person, but also hybrid event. We got a lot of remote interviews. Thank you for taking the time to speak with me. >> John. Great to see you. Great as always to be with you and great to be at least here, virtually with the team and in Barcelona from WC. >> You know, in Samsung, we think about the edge. You are leading a team that's driving this innovation. We've talked in the past about Industry 4.0, but the innovation at the intelligent edge, human edge is a big part of it, with 5G. It's just another G, but it's not just another G you got to have a backbone. You got to have a back haul. You got to have an interconnection. You have commercial, not just consumer technology. So the edge is becoming both this human and device commercial environment. So the industry is quickly moving to this. You call it the 4.0 trend. What do you see happening? This is a clear change over the Telco is not what it used to be. Change is coming fast. A lot of disruption, what's your view? >> Yeah, I think we see a number of things done. And certainly from our perspective, which is, I think we've got somewhat of a unique view on this because of our huge focus really in consumer use and attitudes. And certainly it's been informed by what we've seen, what we've all collectively seen over the last year and a half or so, and are still seeing today. And I think one of the things that we're certainly experiencing is I think the edge is it's expanding further out. I think it's also getting more tightly coupled in many respects to the human factor. And it's not just a set of billions of discrete sensors anymore. And I think the evolution of our thinking around this has changed quite a bit from the IOT Version One variant of this. We put more of what I would call billions of these things, communicating all kinds of information, either to the cloud or the data centers and doing it in a very voluminous way. And what we're saying is with the advent of more the human to machine interface, and certainly the capabilities that we're saying both on the network and the device side, it's really redefining how we're thinking about edge. And certainly here at Samsung and with some of our partners, and we're starting to call this more of the intelligent human edge, where the human factor really begins to play a big role in how we're defining the Internet Of Things. And those things include really people. And this is how we're looking at it. >> I love the theme, the human edge, I think that's very relevant. I want to get a human aspect of here tied into the industry side, because as we emerge from the pandemic and move to a broader economic recovery, you see the psychology of the industry where cloud is one of the shining examples of what the pandemic highlighted cloud speed, cloud agility. And now you're seeing with openness in the Teleco industry, that cloud is coming in, open cloud interoperability. So coming out of the pandemic, cloud is the theme is driving an economic recovery, which is driving the psychology of we're back to real life, we're back to business, but it's not business as usual. The fashion is changing. The attitudes are changing. You mentioned that, and now the disruption of how cloud will be implemented. And it seems to be Telco is where these edge and cloud are just completely radically changing, what was once a kind of a slow moving Telco space. So how do you see the partnerships and coming out of the pandemic, some of the response of cloud impact, cloud technology, public cloud impact on this new Telcom? >> Yeah. Let me try to unpack that a little bit. I think we see two dimensions on this, certainly on the carrier side, the operator's side of the equation, we're certainly partnered with everybody across the globe on that. Certainly there's been a definitive impact around software defined everything, right? So, and this has been accelerated really by the standards that have started to develop around 5G. And even now there's a lot of discussion and I'm sure there'll be a lot of it around WMC about 6G and what is happening there. But I think with the advent of things like O-RAN for example, and some of the activity that we're seeing really around NEC type solutions and opportunities, the traditional role of the carrier and the operator is evolving and has to evolve, right? It is now much more aligned with the provision of these types of services that are very different from the type of data or voice services that we've seen in the past. So certainly we're seeing that transition. The second big transition is really around the notion of hybridity. Now we've been talking about this now in the industry for a while, but I think it's really starting to take firm root the idea of not only multiple clouds, but clouds that are deployed either on prem or certainly, available as a service in its various forms. So I think that combination along with the advances that we're seeing in the technology, and this was both on the connectivity side. So certainly around the ultra reliable, low latency communications, what we're seeing with things like slicing, for example, starting to take root as well as frankly, the devices themselves are getting that much more powerful and compact. This is what we're saying with SOC technologies is what we're seeing with the functions being moved more and more to on device capability. So I think about hybrid, I mean, in my past to think about it more as a small data center. How do you compact it, move it out to somewhere else. Now we're thinking about it more in terms of the type of processing capability that you can put really in the hands of the human or hands of the device. And at that point, you really start to get different use cases, start to emerge from that. So this is how we're thinking about this extension and what I'm talking about more as, an expansion on the edge, further out. >> I love is it splicing or slicing, what's the term? Slicing is the technology? >> Slicing, network slicing. >> Slicing, not splicing cable. >> Yeah. >> Slicing. >> Not splicing cable, no. >> Okay so this come up a lot, so splicing kind of points to this end to end, workflows. You look at some of the modern development, the frameworks of successful, you're seeing these multifunctional teams kind of having an end to end visibility into the modern application workflow from CIC pipeline, whatever. Now, if you take the concept of O-RAN you mentioned Open Radio Access Networks, this kind of brings up this idea of interoperability, because if you're going to have end to end and you add edge to it, you have to have the ability to watch something go end to end, but it's never been like that in the past because you had to traverse multiple networks. So this becomes kind of this hybrid a little bit deeper. Can you share how you see that and how Samsung's working with folks and how you guys are addressing this because you can be at the edge, but ultimately you've got to integrate. So you've got openness, you've got the idea of interoperability issues, and you ultimately have to move around and work with other networks, other clouds and other systems. This is not, it's not always like that. So can you share how this is evolving and how real this is and what is your view on it. >> Yeah, our thinking on this. I mean, let me start by maybe tackling this in a little bit of a different angle. One of the things that we see as one of the barriers around interoperability has really been more on the application side of the equation. And this is actually the third component in making all of this work. And let me just be very clear in what I'm saying here, I think in terms of mobile architectures and really Edge architectures, it has been one of the last bastions, if you will of closed architectures, there've been very much what I would call purpose-built architectures at the edge. Certainly that's been driven by things like the industrial side coming together with more of the commercial side of the equation, but we think it's time really to extend the interoperability of what we are seeing really on the IT side of the equation and really driven by cloud native. This was really in the area of containers. It's in the area of microservices, it's in the area of cloud native development. And if we're really talking about this, we really need to extend that interoperability from the application point of view on the data point of view, really to the end point. And this is where some of the work that we're doing, and we really embarked on in earnest last year with Red Hat and IBM, and with VMware for example, in really opening up that edge architecture to really the open source community, as well as really to the microservices architectures that we have now seen propagate down from the cloud into hybrid architecture. So this has been really one of the key focus areas for us. The network interoperability has really been driven by the standards that we've seen and that have been really adopted by the industry. And when it comes to, for example 5G standards. what we've been more focused on quite honestly, is the interoperability on the application and data side. And we think that by extending, if you will, that write once run many type concepts down into the edge and into the device, that this is going to open up really a wealth of opportunity for us on the application and on the data side. >> That's awesome, I love the openness, love the innovation you guys are doing. I think that's where the action is and that's where the growth is going to be. I do have to ask you how you see edge computing in the IOT era in terms of security. Are we more vulnerable because of it now? And how are you guys addressing the issue of security and data privacy at the edge? What's your opinion on that? What's Samsung doing? >> I mean, we just have to look at the news today, it's obvious that we are more vulnerable, right? There's no doubt that points of vulnerability are being exposed and they're probably being exposed in now industrial areas, right? Certainly with what we've seen, just even recently with some of the attacks that, that have occurred. So a couple of things there, number one, we are relying very heavily on our long history around establishing root of trust in kind of zero trust environments. We've had our Knox platform as an example, we just celebrated, in fact, our 10th year of the product. In fact, it was announced at MWC back about 10 years ago. So this is something that, that we're celebrating, it's an anniversary. Our belief on this is that we really need to ensure that we maintain a hardware-based route across when it comes to the edge. We can't only rely upon software protection at that layer. We can't naturally rely upon some of the network protections that are there. So, we've shipped about 3 billion devices with our Knox Security Suite over the last 10 years. And this is something that we're relying very heavily on. Not only for again, that hardware based root of process. So one of the key solutions, there's our Knox Vault product, which we just released a few months back. This is really a safe within a safe concept, really ensuring that the biometric password and other user data is protected. It's really what drives some of our strategy around making sure that we rely upon something that protects all of the back doors that are resident, not only at the software layer, but at the hardware layer as well. And then management is the other key piece of this, security without the ability of managing these thousands to millions of devices is really somewhat compromised. So we've extended a lot of our Knox management capability at our device level really to address some of those particular attributes, as well as these fleets become more prominent. And they start to take on workloads that are more critical to IOT type workloads. >> Casey, great to have you on. Your insight's awesome. Love what you're doing at Samsung. And again, you're a leader, you've been there, you've seen those cycles of innovation. I have to ask you my final question for you is a personal one and a professional one. The last Mobile World Congress was 2019. In person, last year was canceled a lot's happened in the industry since 20 something months ago. Now we're going to be in person, a lot of hybrid still remotely, but there'll be people in person. The world's changed. What is the big change in the Telco, Telco Cloud, Telco Edge, what's happened in these 20 plus months since the last Mobile World Congress that people should pay attention to? What's the most important thing in your mind? >> Most important? Thank God John. You're putting me on the spot here, right? I think it's wisdom to be quite honest with you. I mean, we've certainly all collectively learned a lot in terms of user patterns and what people need and want. And I hope to think that collective wisdom is going to be a key part of how we drive this going forward. And then if I can just pick one more, I would say re-invention, I think what we're starting to see is that coming out of, again from 2019 to what we're seeing now, we do see this opportunity reinventing and rethinking. And I think that's the difference. And the pace of that is going to really dictate how we look at this and how we collectively solve these challenges. So I hope to think we're wiser and that we're more imaginative coming out of this. And again after being in this industry for 30 years, we've not seen the types of things that we've seen over the last couple. So I hope to think that this is a pivot point for all of us. >> Well, Samsung is certainly a leader in many areas and great to see you on theCube here and the theme in your talks around intelligence, human edge innovation, open. This is a force that's happening. And I think the big change, as you said, the wisdom combined with a reinvention is happening and it's going to be very interesting ride, should be fun to work on. >> It will be John and I thank you for our friendship and our relationship over the years. It's always great to see you and to be with you. And again, we're very optimistic as we always have, coming out of this And again, thanks for the time and have a great MWC. >> You too, Casey Choi, Executive Vice President General Manager of the Global Mobile Business to Business Unit Commercial Unit at Samsung. This is theCube's coverage of Mobile World Congress. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. Okay. We're back here. That was Casey Choi. Talk about wisdom, collective wisdom coming out of the pandemic. Great friend of theCube, great friend of the industry doing great work there. Casey Choi. Like we are doing here on the ground at Mobile World Congress in Cloud City, as well as Adam and the team in the studio. So back to you, Adam and team.