>>from around >>The globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of IBM. Think 2021 brought to you by IBM Hello and welcome back everyone to the cubes coverage of IBM Think 2021 virtual. I'm john for your host of the cube. I'm excited to have this next guest cube alumni Casey choi corporate E V P. Executive vice president and general manager at Samsung Mobile, the B to B and B to G team Casey, great to see you how you been >>john it is wonderful to see you and it's been way too long. Great to be back on the cube with you. Looking forward to our conversation and hope you're safe >>and same to you. Great to see you. I'm so excited. One of the things I've really admired about you and our conversations in the past as you've always had your finger on the pulse of the waves and you've always involved with some really great engineering work and I want to dig into this now because um your role is really hitting the industry four dot oh kind of wave, which is the confluence of tech, media, entertainment, every vertical big data IOT and the the with the distributed computing now called the cloud and edge. It really sets the table for what is now going to be the preferred architecture probably for the next 20 plus years. So give us your view on how you see the the changing landscape in the industry. >>Yeah, I think I think you you covered you know, all of the major seismic shifts that are happening here and then, you know, as we've all experienced over the last, you know, over a year with the covid pandemic, that's actually accelerated a lot of the thinking around the edge. We've certainly seen use cases proliferate whether it be in things such as health care, Manufacturing is also taken. I think a real hard look at the applicability of these types of solutions. Uh we've seen things like for example 5G pick up in these sort of industrial applications as um you know as the industrial companies have thought about worker safety as they thought about automation as they thought about, you know, utilize being more protocols as well as you know, bringing these technologies and processes together in a way that will help to kind of reinvent their their particular economic base as well as kind of the learnings that we've seen over the last year coming from these new uh safety protocols as well as the need for now with the economy is picking back up the need for productivity as well as you know, greater efficiencies coming from these types of solutions. So we've seen that confluence happened and then certainly on our end as our network connectivity has become much stronger, lower latency as well as the endpoint capabilities have increased dramatically over the last few years, as S O C. S and others have taken root. We've seen the edge, if you will start to be more extreme in the sense that it's pushing further and further out beyond what we originally envisioned the edge to be. >>And the S O C trend actually highlights that it's not so much about moore's law as it is more about more chips, more more performance if you look at actual performance, David and they just put out a report on this where there's much more performance now than ever before coming in from the combined energy. So uh and combined processing power out there. So it's super, super amazing what you can do at the edge. Before we get into the edge. I want to just Clarify, what is your new role there? I mean Samsung is known for, I'll see the B2C with the phones and everything else, but you have a specific focus uh what is your main focus there? >>Yeah, our missions pretty straightforward and as everyone knows, you know, Samsung is this uh you know, powerhouse uh consumer electronics company we pride ourselves in and obviously uh our our position in that, but um we also have a very significant role really in the business to business and in the government and financial services sector space uh with our mobile devices as well as with our knock security platform solution and device management platform. We actually provide a large portion of the secure devices for governments worldwide, as well as the Knox platform that is built into the majority of our both consumer as well as business devices uh really allows for uh that uh if you will that next protective layer on top of the android. Os that allows for things such as personal and professional profile. So we produce those solutions out of my team um as well as we provide really the the go to market support as well as the R and D support for that platform, including uh an area that's growing rapidly for us, which is in the rugged category, which is, you know, one of the key products that we're using for some of these edge applications that will be talking about. >>Great, let's jump into that. What are you guys doing specifically on the edge computing space? Let's dig into it. >>Yeah, I think, you know, maybe the place to start on that is uh we're really kind of re envisioning what the edges and uh I mentioned a little earlier that uh with what's occurring in the performance profile and really the functional profile, what is being produced at the device level, You know, we're talking about in the last few years, the fidelity and the capabilities are, you know, in, you know, what I would call the the computer class type uh, functions as well as obviously mobile devices have always been um, communication gateways for a number of functions, whether they be, you know, videos or photos, their multi sensory in nature. And as this has become more practical and the connective tissue has gotten there with five G as well as all kinds of other, you know, fast, low latency communications capabilities and wifi six U w b, you know, included within that. What we're finding is that the use case to bring applications, especially cloud, native and container native applications uh, to these devices to be, you know, augmenting the the endpoint user, the frontline worker, uh really the Knowledge Worker and moving that capability further away from if you will and an extension to cloud services as well as the M E C type services. This is where we see it going and really what we're trying to to work on with IBM and with red hat is how do we, you know, continue to fortify this, not only from a actual processing ai Ml capability, but also equipped these devices so that they can fully participate as part of a multi hybrid cloud architecture. Uh the endpoint is really one of the last baskets where we have not uh kind of conquered bringing uh, you know, cloud first container native applications really to that point and we believe the time is right because of the capabilities that are there along with again, uh the connectivity that is becoming much more ubiquitous now to allow for that type of architecture to exist. And uh, we're starting to call this the intelligent human edge as well. We think that the applications that will see for this are you know, ones that will uh, you know, make the, the human operator more productive, safer, uh certainly more efficient and uh we think that this augmentation of that front line workers is an area that we, we are, you know, put put our, our steaks on in terms of pioneering just because of our experience in that mobility space and in the consumer space. >>That's great. You brought up red hat and IBM obviously red hat was bought by IBM Arvin Arvin Ceo. Well I interviewed in 2019 and the cube that red hat summit, ironically a couple months later by the company just smile on his face. He likes clowns. >>You had something to do with that. You know, >>he wanted to, I could see he wanted to say it, but but he loves the cloud. Everyone who knows Arvin knows that he's into the cloud in a new way in this edge piece that you mentioned that you're using red hat and IBM for hybrid. This is what the new operating system is going to look like. It's a completely distributed system and the edge is just part of that operating model. This is what their vision is, which I love by the way, I think that redefines what that is. Are you saying that you guys are working with red hat and IBM for that hybrid edge piece. How does that work? Can you take me through that? >>Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean this is a obviously the ecosystems bigger than that, but IBM and red Hat really bring the expertise really around uh container ecosystems, certainly the work that they have done in terms of multi hybrid cloud, uh certainly the work that open ship has brought forward in terms of, you know, multi platform capability. We really love the concept of developed once run any sort of a construct. And uh when you think about it, the mobile platforms specifically, you know, ours as well as others has really been that last bastion of, of areas where more of the development is on a particular platform, it's more bespoke. We think that by broaching this uh, you know, in conjunction with IBM and Red Hat, um this is going to give us the ability to have these device architecture has become a full voting member if you will of of that hybrid cloud architecture and of that microservices can contain architecture that is becoming much more prevalent. So this is really the work that we're doing. And then obviously we're working at a vertical level to see where are the applicable use cases in places such as the design studio we have in Singapore, where with the Singaporean government, we're looking at really bringing a renaissance to industry ford auto type application, smart factory automation, public safety. These areas where we believe that this type of architecture can be, can be deployed. >>That's awesome. And totally believe that the edge um it's still gonna be pushed further and further out, honestly having that open, open standards of of hybrid. So I gotta ask you on the edge just well I got you here, you know, one of the things that you see clearly as the industrial edge, it's called factories and whatnot. You mentioned some of those and then you got the human piece, which is like people have phones and wearables and other things are gonna be happening. So as you start to have those endpoints which are then gonna be connected into a distributed network, take a hybrid cloud, so to be multiple clouds. But yeah, that's the subsystem within the cloud construct. The complaint has been not complaint, but the observation has been and complain if you look at it that the edges limited by power and connectivity. Okay. These are like key basic concepts, How is the connectivity option? I know five Gs coming, it's here, we're seeing it being deployed, we got people saying, hey, this is our business application, clearly got higher throughput, not as much range, give us your take on this because this becomes important. I'll see powers battery driven, getting better and better and and power is getting uh is not really that much of a problem, but connectivity seems to be what's your vision of this? >>Yeah, and you know, there's a lot of ways to approach that, I will tell you on the industrial side, at least in some of the deployments and pOC is that we've been involved in over the last year to two years, um connectivity is an issue uh and a lot of it has to do with the infrastructure that is available in many of these uh you know, plants or factories or you know, points of distribution. Uh they're not necessarily, you know, leading edge in many cases we're dealing with uh you know what I would call subpar connectivity, it's not like an office complex where You may have, you know, kind of state of the art wifi capability or you know, 10 gig capability or whatever it might be. Um So what we've, what we've found on that is it requires actually quite a bit of work in terms of fine tuning both on the network infrastructure side, whatever that might be. Uh Or we've also found that on the device side, the program ability of the of the device in terms of tuning it for whatever connective environment would be there. And we worked with everything from, you know, bluetooth, you w b uh to wifi six and everything in between and in many cases they're multiple uh you know, protocols or connectivity methods that are there. So, you know, one thing we've learned is that um you can't you can't necessarily assume that in a especially in a factory environment that those conditions are going to allow for um uh you know, consistency, so you have to engineer around that, you know, and some of the things that we've done are really around making sure that we've got uh, you know, deployable program ability at the device as well as, you know, uh more dynamic network tuning capabilities that will allow for, you know, better connectivity and handle things such as consistency. >>All right, Casey, Great to incite final question for you why Samsung and IBM, what's the bottom line? >>Yeah, I think the bottom line is really straightforward. I mean we've had a, you know, 30 year history of working together, uh you know, we've been mutual customers to each other. We do a lot of work for IBM in regards to foundry type services and semiconductor services and then we work very closely with them over many years on applications. So number one, there's been a natural relationship just in the the the services that we provided to each other. But as as we look at really to go to market, I mean, IBM brings so much credibility from a vertical market perspective. Um there's a trusted advisor type status that I think is is very profound and it's been built over many years, you know, delivering on the promises and on our end. I think what we bring is really this uh this uh cycle time that is driven by our passion in the consumer space. And when we start to apply that into more of these vertical industrial, uh you know, vertical sectors, I think that combination is very powerful. Um the services piece obviously comes into play with IBM and then really the red hat piece of this really just puts the icing on the cake with really the market leadership in uh you know, hybrid cloud and in the container native architecture. So it's just a very powerful combo. And um you know, the cooperation there has been strong and we continue to look forward to delivering more through that partnership. >>Casey great to see a great, great thing to hear. You know, you got scalable infrastructure, you get modern applications at the edge, all of hybrid. Great, great partnership. Casey Choi Executive Vice Corporate Executive Vice President and General Manager of Samsung Mobile B two B team. Great to see you and congratulations on your mission. It's exciting project. Thanks for coming on the cube and sharing. >>Great to see you, jOHn take care of yourself and looking forward to seeing you again. >>Okay, this is the cubes coverage. IBM think 2021. I'm john for your host of the cube. Thanks for watching.

>> Live from Toronto, Canada, it's the theCUBE, covering Global Cloud and Blockchain Summit 2018. Brought to you by theCUBE. >> Hey, everyone. Welcome back to CUBE's coverage in Toronto for the Global Cloud and Blockchain Summit, part of the big event also happening for two days, Wednesday and Thursday, the Blockchain Futurist Conference, here in Canada. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante here. Next guest is the founder and CEO of DigitalBits.io as well as Fusechain and serial entrepreneur and also the mastermind behind this inaugural event. First time a cloud blockchain conference has come together, bringing the two communities together. Al, great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming to Toronto, Canada. >> It's our pleasure. Certainly as you know, we love cloud. We cover all the big cloud shows. We're dominating that market in terms of coverage and access. And we just started covering blockchain in 2018 with theCUBE, although on SiliconANGLE since 2011 with the written word in journalism. But this is interesting. You are the brainchild behind this event, and I want you to explain why you came up with this event idea because this is the first time that you got two worlds coming together. You're bringing in the cloud DNA, and that can go back to like, classic networking and think big hosting providers, the Exodus and the Equinox of the world. These guys are the same guys who built YouTube's back end and Facebook. Large scale network guys with this new emerging blockchain world because there's some connections points, and it's super important, and no one's ever done that before. What's the motivation behind a cloud and blockchain summit? >> Well, if you think of the internet, all that data, all that traffic, substantial majority of it is flowing through data centers, infrastructure providers globally. And within many of those data centers you have cloud providers, whether it's cloud computing, SaaS, Software as a Service, cloud providers, you name it. And now we have upon us this emerging blockchain technology. Many are referring to it as Web3.0. And I'm obviously a big believer in that this is the next evolution of the internet. We got Internet1.0 in the 90's. We had Web2.0 with social sharing economy and so forth, and along the way, each step you had your first movers, your willing followers, and then the unwilling followed. It's been that powerful the last two occurrences that we saw with the evolution of the internet. Web3.0 is that next thing. First movers, willing followers, the unwilling. Every time you have this something very innovative, obviously there's a big engineering initially starts amongst, you know, a community of engineers, and then it starts to go mainstream. Obviously a lot happens in between conception and going mainstream. And if we look at the 90's, Linux played a substantial role in the acceleration of innovation. It really extracted, you know, it took a different approach to software, really leading open-source. >> It took down some proprietary incumbents - Unix. >> Absolutely, absolutely. And free and open-source software, but it still needed to be supported. Which version of Linux should enterprises embrace? And at that time, it was very important with what we saw emerge with things like Intel, IBM, Dell, HP, and so forth getting behind organizations like Red Hat and their version of Linux, now known as Red Hat Enterprise Linux. >> IBM put in a billion dollars into it. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Steve Woz, yeah. >> So with regard to that, you know, it was all about the hardware validating, right? These trusted vendors to the enterprise. And them kind of validating a company, or endorsing a company, in effect, like Red Hat, really helped provide a guiding light to the enterprise. Now it's not about hardware, it's about the cloud, right? Cloud computing providers and so forth. And in that ecosystem, it's not just AWS. It's not just Microsoft. There are many data center providers that have built a cloud computing offering that are supporting substantial financial institutions, substantial organizations within healthcare space insurance, and many, many other industries. So they play a very important role in supporting an enterprise, whether implementation, integration, and consumption of technologies, including new and emerging technologies. And so as we have, sort of, before us, this emergence of blockchain, obviously having lived in the cloud and infrastructure community for a number of years with that last company I had founded, know a lot of the key stakeholders. And even though I'm all in on blockchain, you know, I pop in every now and then in that world. What I found was two different extremes. You have CTO's and even CEO's of cloud computing organizations, and others within those organizations, totally high "Get It" factor. And you had the other extreme, multi-billion dollar cloud computing organizations, you know, data center organizations, where again, the leadership is still trying to figure it out, in some respects, not fully paying attention yet. And I saw that this is definitely emerging. Again, you'll have first movers, willing followers, and the unwilling. They're all going to get there. But it hadn't gotten there yet. And so with regards to this event, I saw a huge opportunity to really put something out there, allow it to ultimately take a life of it's own. There's a new organizer that's going to be coming forward and driving the ship with this event. But ultimately, there needed to be a forum, not just here in North America, but in every corner of the world, the Global Cloud and Blockchain Summit, providing this opportunity for that convergence, and for both communities to really share knowledge and accelerate, fill that gap. And I saw it's there. It is there. There's amazing things being spoken on stage as we sort of are sitting here, with leading innovators, and so forth, from both sides. There was an amazing keynote today by Anthony Di Iorio, one of the co-founders of Ethereum and founder and CEO of Decentral and Jaxx, really helping support the event today and making a contribution. His talk was phenomenal. That's kind of the thought behind it, and it's, you know, here we are. >> I want to pick up on something you said, for our audience, you know. I mean, for guys like you, Al, that are deep into it, you understand this very well. But you talked about Linux, and how, essentially, the Web was built on Linux. So if you were a Linux developer back in the day, and you wanted to "invest" in Linux, you didn't have a vehicle to do that. You could put your time in, you know? You could maybe join a company and maybe get some stock. But there was no way to directly invest in Linux. Well today, there is. With blockchain and cryptoeconomics, you actually can, whether it's tokenize your business or participate, you can buy tokens. And so it's a whole different incentive structure. And many in our audience are sort of new to this, kind of the unwilling, if you will. >> Yeah. >> And that's an amazing new way to create capital structures. >> And very powerful. I mean, prior to this tokenized revolution we're seeing here, it was a cool open-source project that as an engineer you wanted to be part of this, contribute your time, and quite often you would ask your employer to permit you to have 10%, 20% of your time to commit to these projects. Maybe you would even ask for that in your job interview. And you'd maybe get the thumbs up, you know? And so, your employer's, in effect, subsidizing your time to really contribute to projects and code that you're very passionate about. But if they got busy, economic cycles and what have you, and it's like, "You know what? We need you at 100% focus on your day job." All of a sudden, that community, that open-source community is losing perhaps a very valuable contributor, right? And there's really no way for that direct incentive from that project. And that's really what that is now. Projects can be created. You think of, you know, some blockchain's like an operating system, you now have an, you know, to use the Linux comparison, now let's say an operating system can have it's own incentive, a reward or compensation structure to really help attract engineers and other valuable contributors to not just give birth to a project, but help make it sustainable. >> Yeah. >> And, you know, eventually maybe you're quitting the day job because it's able to be free, open-source, and providing an enlightening self-interest. >> I'm getting some messages here, direct messages, listening to you talk. So I want to share them with you. One guy says, "Hey, Al. What's the deal with the different blockchains? How do I tell?" So I'm not an unwilling. I'm a wanna-believe. I'm not the front-end, but what do I pay attention to? And there's so many different chains. You got people promoting certain things. I don't know whose stats are real. You got two kids in a garage, >> Yeah. >> who just did an ICS. So the question is essentially what's the difference between all these chains? What do I have to look for? Is it latency? Who's solving these problems? What's the big deal, and how do I determine better chain from another chain? Are they all going to work together? >> Yeah. >> What's your thoughts? >> Things are moving incredibly fast right now. And it is difficult to keep up to speed. You know, maybe it was just bitcoin at one time and one chain to focus on. Then there was Ethereum and all these others. Now there's many, many more. So ultimately, it is about information, staying current with that information, doing your due diligence. But you really need to have a community that you're a part of, that you can, kind of, share in your evaluation and monitoring of what's new and emerging. >> So community's important. >> Very important, very important. Just say trusted advisors, trusted peers, and you kind of take a collective approach at this. Nonetheless, we're in this pioneering era, mass innovation happening. What's winning today, you know, may not necessarily be continuing to win tomorrow. But you really need to maintain a discipline, and take a peer approach to staying current. In terms of public chain, private chain, they're all going to play a role, and they are playing a role, in different use cases. There's clearly a use case for private chain within enterprise, within say, you know, trusted circle of supply chain participants. Maybe you want to bring some efficiencies to all that. >> So use case drives the chain. >> Yeah, absolutely. But public chain is a phenomenal phenomenon. Among other things that we hear a lot about it, it's given birth to the ICO. The new way of capital formation that is unbelievably awesome. The world has never seen anything like this, where. >> Explain that. Capital formation dynamic that you're referring to. >> Yeah, so the traditional way, whether it's in Silicon Valley or any other part of the world, you have an entrepreneur that maybe they haven't had a big exit where they can fund their own next venture on their own. You know. Smart intelligent people with a brilliant idea, and they're doing that friends and family route, right? The due diligence checklist isn't that long. It's like, you know what? Love my son. He's the smartest kid on the planet. You know, you give him a few dollars and a few other friends and family, this new emerging entrepreneur. And if there's evolution there, things are picking up traction and so forth, then maybe you're doing an angel round. And there's this sort of structured process that history's sort of define for us. And then from an angel round, you know, you have this early stage company emerging, and new milestones being reached, and then maybe there's a Series A venture capital round, and what have you. And then you have the, you know, the Series A, Series B, and so forth, right? The typical approach to things. A very regimented Silicon Valley has been a dominating force of the venture capital community, and that form of competition >> But the dynamics are different than the venture capital. >> Yeah, so that's the way that we've always, sort of, known, right? Many early stage companies, the process they go through. Many, many meetings behind closed doors, and so forth. >> Cloak and dagger, black box. >> Yeah, so concept of crowdsourcing, still beholden to the financial systems that're up there. How do you really foster community up there? And raise maybe a few million dollars? >> So what you're saying is is that it's easier to raise money now? Easier? >> It absolutely is. You have this new meeting of exchange where you have cryptocurrencies like Ether. And you're basically sharing your idea with the world, and all of a sudden, saying, "Hey, here's our token economics. We'd like to reach some capital." And then whether it's minutes, hours, or even weeks, you have capital coming to you from different corners of the world, and it's coming to you in seconds. Highly efficient. You have these universal currencies now emerging, and it's an amazing sensation, and it's a new form of capital formation, and with capital formation, you have innovation. So I believe that, you know, we're just going to continue to see an acceleration of innovation, globally happening, and not just in certain pockets of the world now, in many, many corners of the world. I mean what's happening in Asia's absolutely phenomenal in the blockchain space as well. It's not just interesting here in North America. In fact, in some respects even more interesting, depending on how you look at it. >> Describe what's happening in Asia. You guys talked about this last night in the fireside chat. >> Well, I mean some of the publicly available information is that you can just simply see, on many of the cryptocurrency exchanges out there, an insane amount of volume, more so than in any other corner of the world. And so you have a very active investor community up there, a trading community, token-buyer community, what have you. >> And where are the pockets? >> Very healthy. >> So it was China, and then things sort of shifted to Japan. >> Well, >> Where do you see the action? >> maybe where the centralized exchange in happening, but I think it's still a lot of the same people. It's not like it got shut down in a country, and those people just lost their desire. They just found an alternative means to continue to participate. >> Right. >> You know, South Korea, it's phenomenal. You have Hong Kong. You have Japan. You have Singapore, among many of the pockets. But then it's everywhere. I mean, you're meeting people from Vietnam, Thailand, India. They're all very active investor communities and utility token buyer communities. And it's very healthy. Yes, you have, you know, a correction every now and then in this market. But you have that with any sort of new, exciting innovation. But it continues to thrive up there. It's phenomenal. >> Yeah, you're seeing one of the main uses of bitcoin to buy alternative currencies. >> Yep. >> That's sucking huge amounts of volume. >> It's an easier currency. I mean, in a matter of seconds or minutes, you can have a currency go from a bedroom in Florida, you know, here in Toronto, to a project in Singapore, or vice versa, without going through bank. >> So again some more couple questions from the crowd. If you want to reach us, tweet us, either direct message or tweet @Furrier @DVellante. Happy to take your questions for the guest. But one says, "Do we buy now?" >> (laughs) >> Second was, "Do this side step the tariffs of the China, Japan, U.S. thing?" Obviously outside of the United States, we're the world power in the United States. But now that power is shifting. You see China and here in Canada, a lot of crypto-DNA here. So interesting. Your thoughts on buying? (chuckles) On the dip? Or crash? Or however you look at it? And then the international dynamic with China and Japan and others? >> So many are seeing it as a dip. I mean, the reality is, if this is new form of capital formation, it does share similar characteristics, nonetheless still to traditional or early-stage investing and venture capital, in many respects. Not every start-up succeeds. In fact, you know, over 90% traditionally don't make it. Even if they make it to a Series A round, they may not make it to a B round, right? And so, the fact that you have, some people kind of are referring to the Wild Wild West. I don't necessarily see it that way. It's just finding it's way, right? And it's going to get to a mature state. >> Well I think people look at the bubble, and they think Wild Wild West, but the interesting thing about it, you know, we talked about it off camera last night, around international is, and no one really knows what the STEEMs will be. This is going to be a completely different landscape than anything we've seen before, whether it's standards or execution. And I hear the argument all the time of "Oh, it's unregulated!" It's really the United States that's taking a more regulatory approach, you know, the SEC is essentially scaring straight everybody and saying, >> Well they're trying to figure it out. >> Well they're trying to figure it out, but also they've kind of slows things down, the process. But that being said, it might not have to be formally regulated. Because you mentioned Linux. The role of self-governing communities is a very interesting dynamic. No one's actually said and analyzed what a regulatory regime, globally, would look like, if you factor in, kind of, the open source concepts, with self governance because communities are very efficient, and we got money involved. >> Yeah. >> It can be even more efficient. That's called a marketplace. >> You know, people have disposable income, and they decide what they want to do with that disposable income. You go to a restaurant, you go buy some groceries, you invest, you maybe buy some commodities, right? And where we put that money, the value we had that we wish we could exchange for something else, some of it goes into some regulatory worlds and some doesn't. I want to go buy some you commodities at the grocery store. I mean, it's a free and open transaction. There's no KYC or AML per se and that happens. >> But food has to get to the supermart. My point is. >> Marketplaces don't require regulation. >> Exactly my point. That's my point. >> Or additional red tape, right? But where we put other capital deaths. So whether you're buying share certificate, early stage investing. There's SEC filings, perhaps. >> Who regulated Linux? >> Who regulated Linux? I mean-- >> (laughs) >> It was self governing. >> Benevolent dictatorship with Torvalds. >> But the capital formation was different in the Linux industry. >> Yeah. >> It was the more traditional path that you just described, and so those were-- >> But I guess what I'm saying is that, you know, have a token. Some token could represent a commodity. Some token could represent a security. So there needs to be that distinction and a framework of clarity so that we understand what needs to be regulated and going on that path. And so I think that's, kind of, part of finding it's way over the past 12 months or so is this distinction. Some countries were very quick to say, "Here's a framework.", like Switzerland. That clarity here is taking some time here in Canada and the U.S. >> Yeah, and I think they should let things foster and incubate a bit because you don't know the gestation period of real technology, and I think I'm cool with community-oriented governance Because people will lose a boatload of case; some will gain. But that'll all sort itself out. And with good community involvement, it'll happen faster. I just find that a better path. I mean, some people can't stay with that tension. They overreact. Some people can't handle the risk. But you got to see how it plays out at some level. >> You definitely do. But there's also an opportunity for self-governance. You know, you have-- There's the regional internet registries, right? So you have ARIN RIPE in Europe and so forth. You know, if you want an IP address and so forth, there's a self-governing body that defines policy and how these things are going to be deseminated here in North America. The government, kind of, sets off with that. >> The DNS system. >> You know, absolutely. This is valuable-- >> Yeah. You know, you have national security with internet, but how IP's are deseminated, it's self-regulated. So at the end of the day, if the community doesn't decide to say, "Hey, some of these things, well let's define self-governing bodies." And if they can play a great role in it all, fanastic. Otherwise, then maybe the government steps in" If that's the type of country it is where they like to engage. >> Al, everyone's reimagining new opportunities with blockchain and crypto. You've certainly got good venture with DigitalBits. We'll certainly have a conversation later here this week about that. I know you got to get back for a panel that you're going to go on now. So thanks for coming on. And congratulations on the inaugural Global Cloud and Blockchain Summit. Looking forward to talking more about it. So theCUBE live in Toronto for coverage of the Global Blockchain event here with cloud. And then tomorrow kicks off the big show here, the Blockchain Futurist, about 2,000 attendees. That's really going to be connecting the dots of the future. TheCube will be there as well. Stay with us for more live coverage after this break.