>> Announcer: Live from Madrid, Spain. It's theCube covering HPE Discover Madrid 2017. Brought to you by Hewlett-Packard Enterprise. >> And we're back at HPE Discover Madrid 2018. This is theCube, the leader in live tech coverage. I'm Dave Vellante, with my co-host Peter Burris. This is day two of the event. Johannes Koch is here, he's the Vice President and Managing Director of Central Eastern Europe, Middle East and Africa for Hewlett-Packard Enterprise, and he's joined by Ali Saleh, he's the Senior Vice President and Chief Commercial Officer at GE Digital for Middle East and Africa. Gentlemen, thanks so much for coming to theCube. >> Appreciate it. Thank you. >> Thank you for having us. >> Johannes, let's start off with you. GE, HPE, what are you guys all about, what are you doing together? Talk about the partnership and the alliance. >> So, you know, it started actually one month ago, I suppose and it was meetings that we had with General Electric to understand the customer requirements in cybersecurity, and what we figured is in this world of IoT, Internet of Things there is an increased requirement for security. And there was, from our perspective, lots of solutions out there but it's quite difficult for customers to understand the landscape and who to turn to. And we also figured that in this world, nobody can serve every requirement of a customer, so this is how we figured out with GED that we have a joint interest here, to serve in the Central/Eastern European and then mainly in the Middle East and Africa part our customer base. And this is how it started and I think what I can say is it has accelerated incredibly during the last two months since we signed the joint agreement. We've been building a channel, we've been having lots of meetings with customers and built a really nice pipeline in the meantime, also I think here the show reflects an incredible interest by our customers. So I think we are in a very good state at the moment having a lot of interest, probably all the key customers in our region having this on their agenda. >> Ali, maybe you could just describe the situation, the industrial expansion if you will in Middle East and Africa, what you guys are seeing in terms of the big trends, and what the opportunity looks like. >> Well thank you. You know, GE has been in the Middle East, Africa, for over 80 years in some countries, and we have deep relationships on industrial side, whether it's power, oil and gas, aviation, healthcare and others. And our customers are thinking a lot about cost, quality, and access, and productivity is top of mind, and they've discovered that their industrial assets are smart and capable but the data are not being collected. So when we collaborate with ecosystem of partners, and we fetch the data and get connected, and get insights from the machine to make them able to make the right decision at the right time and then it drives optimization. This is top of mind. They want to see how they can do better for less. >> Okay, so the customers at GE Digital, the customers are going digital, they have all these devices, instruments, machines, and they're moving in a new direction you guys are trying to lead in. What are the challenges that they're facing, what are they asking your help on, what are the big problems that they're trying to solve? >> So, everyone wants to talk about productivity and calls out. The challenge is that not everyone is ready for digital transformation. Some do not feel there is a burning platform, and those that are ready when they feel there is a burning platform, they don't have a plan, they don't have a playbook. So it's important that we collaborate and help our partners and customers understand their current state and heat map and desired state and pinpoint to quick wins so that they get it and they see incremental improvement. And asset performance management has been an easy way for us to say, "Your asset is underutilized "compared to your industrial entitlement "you can do 10x better," and this gets their attention, and this is where we see the power of one in the industrial age is relevant, one percent. In our market, in the world free market, when we talk to them about one or two percent productivity they laugh at us. They say, "Talk to us about ten or twenty." Because there has been a lot of gap in productivity and efficiency. >> Are you able to, I mean, it's only been nine months, but are you able to start to see any kind of customer results at this point? Do you have some examples even early wins with customers? >> So to be exact, the start of the relationship in a formal way-- >> Was it, what'd you say? >> --is two months. >> I thought I heard nine months. >> No, no, we started our first conversations and until it was over, it came to the agreement-- >> So it was brand new, in terms of... >> It is really brand new and I think what we can say is, I think we have 180 partners already engaged. We have probably more than 500 customer contacts in the region already so with large accounts. And we have a pipeline that is multi-million dollar in size. So we're expecting the first close within our first quarter, which ends at January 2018. I think there's no question that there is a big market opportunity out there, right? And I think the show here, I think for me, even accelerated things, because I think in the past, digital transformation was sort of limited to a few industries, we always give travel industry, we take banking sometimes but here, I think what became transparent to many of the customers that we had here, that there is no industry that is sort of immune against what is happening out there and specifically also that the sensors and the devices out there require special attention. And I think with the, specifically on the OT side, we have a solution now with GED that we can basically roll out across our territory. >> So I wanna talk about three things very quickly, I'm gonna lay this out and ask you if in fact this is going to catalyze that much more attention. Number one is a lot of the industry in the Middle East and Africa are natural resource industries, where the historical ways of doing things have been relatively inefficient. So there's a lot of opportunity to use IoT and related things to bring more efficiency, better practices, overall resource management. Number two is, that the technology's now capable of doing that in places where you don't necessarily have the best infrastructure. Aruba technology, for wireless, some of the other things are now possible, that adds to it. And number three, we've seen some recent steps in liberalizing some of the countries that have the most opportunity to do some things differently. You know, Robert Mugabe, no longer in Zimbabwe, the new prince in Saudi Arabia talking about liberalizing things. Are you seeing these come together in a way that would encourage people to think new ways, do new things, use information perhaps differently than it did before? What do you think, is this a confluence, is this a moment? >> Well I agree with you, and absolutely. Today, our customers and partners in region are more ready than before, and they're pulling hard. And when we put our act together as an ecosystem of partners we make it easier on them to make the right decision. When we talk productivity, productivity comes from people, from process operation, from industrial entitlement. And when we talk about the digital thread that brings it all together whether we look at the culture and vision and mission and people utilization, look at the process defined or not, and how we can optimize it, look at the industrial entitlement, and tell them, "Compared to your peers, "this is where you can be." We have their attention. And with the push from the government for productivity and utilization and do more for less, this is becoming top of mind, everyone is talking about it. So, when we partner together and we say, "This is the playbook, this is how you can start, "and this is the edge to cloud solution in a secure way." And we link it to the industrial entitlement, and let's underline industrial, because when we speak the healthcare language and the power language and the oil and gas language we get their attention. >> Excellent, so there's an increasing interest, and you anticipate that there's going to be new action with their pocketbooks. >> Johannes: Yes. And I would add, I think we, this is not an easy marketplace but you can have some outstanding projects. And we have, in the region, you may have heard about, there was in the private investment fund, when the crown prince did announce the NEOM project. Or, we have in Dubai Smart City as a project, with the city of Dubai which are all projects that probably would not happen in Western Europe. So there is potential, there are bigger things happening, and I think there is also an understanding that this is a way how to leapfrog, to your point, to leapfrog technology. And I think that is what can happen. What we need to be careful of is where to invest, because there are lots of ideas out there, and to understand what are the real things, and what are the things that we need to make happen. This is, I think, the challenge. >> And they wouldn't happen in Western Europe because, what? The maturity of the infrastructure, the space limitations, the appetite? >> Johannes: I think, to give the example of Smart City. >> Dave: Yeah. >> So I think we have a lot of, in my remit we have lots of discussion on Smart City. But it's usually you have to find the city that is willing to pay a POC. >> Pete: 12 layers of bureaucracy. >> And exactly. And you need to talk to each and every city individually, whereas here, if you have a decision maker to say, "Yes, we do this." >> Pete: Yep. >> Dave: Right. >> And then we do it. >> Dave: You cut the line. >> And the answer is about readiness. When you go to a large enterprise that's very successful, you meet the CEO and you quickly conclude whether they're ready for digital transformation or not, are they gonna make this top of mind for them? Are they gonna give you time? Are they gonna talk about productivity? Or is this going to be an IT discussion, and they're gonna treat you as a supplier? Those that are ready, we roll up our sleeves, and we put in our dedicated resources to help them look at the transformation. When the government official is pushing and mandating for calls out, then obviously everyone wants to copy and talk about it. And this makes it easier for us to execute. >> You're talking, again, big numbers. Not one percent, ten percent, so that's the nirvana. How confident are you that you can actually have that type of impact? >> So we've got data points, right? If you look at healthcare in the Saudi Ministry of Health, we've been collaborating on looking at operating room optimization or emergency room optimization, without touching digitization. Looking at the process and utilization of appointments, no-show, and the way the clinical governance is taking place, we're showing 40 percent improvement. If you look at, the factory of the future with Obeikan in Saudi Arabia, we've got asset performance improvement project, and they already yielded a 12 percent improvement, and the entitlement is up to 20, that we're working on. When you transform something, it's iterative, right? When you transform something that you have not pushed for efficiency before it's easy for the first iteration to show an incremental change. >> Pete: Yup. >> That challenge will be for the change to last. And this is where digitization makes it last and makes it impactful. And when we look at the HPE relationship with the MOH on the electronic medical record, we've got right now two active projects with two hospitals, and it's all powered by Predix, and HP peripherals are being deployed to the site. And if we go to the Saudi Electricity Company, we've got a project now on asset performance management across all their assets and again HPE peripherals are also deployed and it's all about GE ecosystem of Predix-enabled solutions. >> So I've had the pleasure and honor of speaking in front of a relatively large group of CIOs a couple times in Africa in the past few years. And I always was surprised by the degree to which they suggested that the necessity of change in this region, and the fact that a little bit of technology can have an enormous impact, the degree to which we might actually see some leadership technology come out of this region. What do you think, are the types of issues, the types of problems that could be solved with this technology in Africa, the types of problems that solving them there could actually start driving the industry in different directions? Solving new classes, whole new classes of problems. Do you think that this type of technology can have a transformative effect, not only in Africa but more broadly? >> Absolutely, this is a way for systems to leapfrog. If you look at Kenya right now, they've got a transformation project for 98 hospitals. And they've got massive shortage of radiologists. So right now, we're replacing equipment in 98 hospitals but tele-radiology is the answer for the shortage of radiologists. If you look to South African Discovery, what Discovery is doing is best in class, and I haven't seen any other insurance company looking at the ecosystem the way they do it. So, absolutely, we're seeing pockets of excellence in Africa, and this can be a way to leapfrog. >> You said you started the conversations around security. >> Johannes: Cybersecurity. >> What was that conversation like? Why was that the starting point? I mean, obviously it's important, but why? >> To be honest, I would have to leave this to you, but I think it was because mainly there was we saw the customer interest. >> Yeah. >> And I would say, probably a year or two years ago, you would have not seen this as a very typical HPE alliance. We were technology people. We were software or hardware people. What you see in, and I mentioned in the beginning, in the world of IoT, things are blurring a bit. What is happening on the edge is very much in the business of General Electric. So I think this builds automatically the new ecosystem. When you look here at Discovery, the alliance has become more and more industrial companies. It's linked to industrial 4.0, car industries and all that. Everywhere where data is being created, we need to have the partnership because and that is because the data that is being created at the edge also needs to be computed at the edge. If we want to be successful, we gotta say, "We cannot limit ourselves to the "data centers the rest is the others." And this is where I think we find the very good connection point because now we have software that actually can operate at the edge. I think you have good examples on that. >> Yeah absolutely, if you look at the pain point in Middle East, Africa, majority of our partners and customers are government entities and for them top of mind securing their large industrial assets is important. And in the operations space there hasn't been much done on security, where you can go into a hospital and simulate light flickering with a voltmeter. And you can take over the temperature and play with it. Today there's a lot of smart sensors out there, but we're securing the IT firewall, but within the hospital, or within the plant, we can do a lot of crazy stuff. And we owe it to our partners to show our capability. That's what we do within our factories, and our platform is designed around security for operations. So the easier interlock with HPE is our ability to get closer to the edge and peripherals, and ensure the operation is secure and that's the first experiment but then, obviously, we're expanding beyond that to other opportunities. >> Dave: Excellent. Alright, gentlemen, we have to leave it there. Thanks so much for coming to theCube. >> Johannes: Thank you very much. >> Sharing your story, good luck with the partnership. >> Thank you. >> Dave: Hope you can come back, maybe in Las Vegas or maybe next year at this event, give us the update. >> For sure. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Appreciate it. >> Dave: Okay. Keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest. Dave Vellante, Peter Burris, this is theCube live from Madrid HPE Discover 2017. (upbeat music)

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR, this is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> The pandemic has changed the way we think about and predict the future. As we enter the third year of a global pandemic, we see the significant impact that it's had on technology strategy, spending patterns, and company fortunes Much has changed. And while many of these changes were forced reactions to a new abnormal, the trends that we've seen over the past 24 months have become more entrenched, and point to the way that's coming ahead in the technology business. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis, we welcome our partner and colleague and business friend, Erik Porter Bradley, as we deliver what's becoming an annual tradition for Erik and me, our predictions for Enterprise Technology in 2022 and beyond Erik, welcome. Thanks for taking some time out. >> Thank you, Dave. Luckily we did pretty well last year, so we were able to do this again. So hopefully we can keep that momentum going. >> Yeah, you know, I want to mention that, you know, we get a lot of inbound predictions from companies and PR firms that help shape our thinking. But one of the main objectives that we have is we try to make predictions that can be measured. That's why we use a lot of data. Now not all will necessarily fit that parameter, but if you've seen the grading of our 2021 predictions that Erik and I did, you'll see we do a pretty good job of trying to put forth prognostications that can be declared correct or not, you know, as black and white as possible. Now let's get right into it. Our first prediction, we're going to go run into spending, something that ETR surveys for quarterly. And we've reported extensively on this. We're calling for tech spending to increase somewhere around 8% in 2022, we can see there on the slide, Erik, we predicted spending last year would increase by 4% IDC. Last check was came in at five and a half percent. Gardner was somewhat higher, but in general, you know, not too bad, but looking ahead, we're seeing an acceleration from the ETR September surveys, as you can see in the yellow versus the blue bar in this chart, many of the SMBs that were hard hit by the pandemic are picking up spending again. And the ETR data is showing acceleration above the mean for industries like energy, utilities, retail, and services, and also, notably, in the Forbes largest 225 private companies. These are companies like Mars or Koch industries. They're predicting well above average spending for 2022. So Erik, please weigh in here. >> Yeah, a lot to bring up on this one, I'm going to be quick. So 1200 respondents on this, over a third of which were at the C-suite level. So really good data that we brought in, the usual bucket of, you know, fortune 500, global 2000 make up the meat of that median, but it's 8.3% and rising with momentum as we see. What's really interesting right now is that energy and utilities. This is usually like, you know, an orphan stock dividend type of play. You don't see them at the highest point of tech spending. And the reason why right now is really because this state of tech infrastructure in our energy infrastructure needs help. And it's obvious, remember the Florida municipality break reach last year? When they took over the water systems or they had the ability to? And this is a real issue, you know, there's bad nation state actors out there, and I'm no alarmist, but the energy and utility has to spend this money to keep up. It's really important. And then you also hit on the retail consumer. Obviously what's happened, the work from home shift created a shop from home shift, and the trends that are happening right now in retail. If you don't spend and keep up, you're not going to be around much longer. So I think the really two interesting things here to call out are energy utilities, usually a laggard in IT spend and it's leading, and also retail consumer, a lot of changes happening. >> Yeah. Great stuff. I mean, I recall when we entered the pandemic, really ETR was the first to emphasize the impact that work from home was going to have, so I really put a lot of weight on this data. Okay. Our next prediction is we're going to get into security, it's one of our favorite topics. And that is that the number one priority that needs to be addressed by organizations in 2022 is security and you can see, in this slide, the degree to which security is top of mind, relative to some other pretty important areas like cloud, productivity, data, and automation, and some others. Now people may say, "Oh, this is obvious." But I'm going to add some context here, Erik, and then bring you in. First, organizations, they don't have unlimited budgets. And there are a lot of competing priorities for dollars, especially with the digital transformation mandate. And depending on the size of the company, this data will vary. For example, while security is still number one at the largest public companies, and those are of course of the biggest spenders, it's not nearly as pronounced as it is on average, or in, for example, mid-sized companies and government agencies. And this is because midsized companies or smaller companies, they don't have the resources that larger companies do. Larger companies have done a better job of securing their infrastructure. So these mid-size firms are playing catch up and the data suggests cyber is even a bigger priority there, gaps that they have to fill, you know, going forward. And that's why we think there's going to be more demand for MSSPs, managed security service providers. And we may even see some IPO action there. And then of course, Erik, you and I have talked about events like the SolarWinds Hack, there's more ransomware attacks, other vulnerabilities. Just recently, like Log4j in December. All of this has heightened concerns. Now I want to talk a little bit more about how we measure this, you know, relatively, okay, it's an obvious prediction, but let's stick our necks out a little bit. And so in addition to the rise of managed security services, we're calling for M&A and/or IPOs, we've specified some names here on this chart, and we're also pointing to the digital supply chain as an area of emphasis. Again, Log4j really shone that under a light. And this is going to help the likes of Auth0, which is now Okta, SailPoint, which is called out on this chart, and some others. We're calling some winners in end point security. Erik, you're going to talk about sort of that lifecycle, that transformation that we're seeing, that migration to new endpoint technologies that are going to benefit from this reset refresh cycle. So Erik, weigh in here, let's talk about some of the elements of this prediction and some of the names on that chart. >> Yeah, certainly. I'm going to start right with Log4j top of mind. And the reason why is because we're seeing a real paradigm shift here where things are no longer being attacked at the network layer, they're being attacked at the application layer, and in the application stack itself. And that is a huge shift left. And that's taking in DevSecOps now as a real priority in 2022. That's a real paradigm shift over the last 20 years. That's not where attacks used to come from. And this is going to have a lot of changes. You called out a bunch of names in there that are, they're either going to work. I would add to that list Wiz. I would add Orca Security. Two names in our emerging technology study, in addition to the ones you added that are involved in cloud security and container security. These names are either going to get gobbled up. So the traditional legacy names are going to have to start writing checks and, you know, legacy is not fair, but they're in the data center, right? They're, on-prem, they're not cloud native. So these are the names that money is going to be flowing to. So they're either going to get gobbled up, or we're going to see some IPO's. And on the other thing I want to talk about too, is what you mentioned. We have CrowdStrike on that list, We have SentinalOne on the list. Everyone knows them. Our data was so strong on Tanium that we actually went positive for the first time just today, just this morning, where that was released. The trifecta of these are so important because of what you mentioned, under resourcing. We can't have security just tell us when something happens, it has to automate, and it has to respond. So in this next generation of EDR and XDR, an automated response has to happen because people are under-resourced, salaries are really high, there's a skill shortage out there. Security has to become responsive. It can't just monitor anymore. >> Yeah. Great. And we should call out too. So we named some names, Snyk, Aqua, Arctic Wolf, Lacework, Netskope, Illumio. These are all sort of IPO, or possibly even M&A candidates. All right. Our next prediction goes right to the way we work. Again, something that ETR has been on for awhile. We're calling for a major rethink in remote work for 2022. We had predicted last year that by the end of 2021, there'd be a larger return to the office with the norm being around a third of workers permanently remote. And of course the variants changed that equation and, you know, gave more time for people to think about this idea of hybrid work and that's really come in to focus. So we're predicting that is going to overtake fully remote as the dominant work model with only about a third of the workers back in the office full-time. And Erik, we expect a somewhat lower percentage to be fully remote. It's now sort of dipped under 30%, at around 29%, but it's still significantly higher than the historical average of around 15 to 16%. So still a major change, but this idea of hybrid and getting hybrid right, has really come into focus. Hasn't it? >> Yeah. It's here to stay. There's no doubt about it. We started this in March of 2020, as soon as the virus hit. This is the 10th iteration of the survey. No one, no one ever thought we'd see a number where only 34% of people were going to be in office permanently. That's a permanent number. They're expecting only a third of the workers to ever come back fully in office. And against that, there's 63% that are saying their permanent workforce is going to be either fully remote or hybrid. And this, I can't really explain how big of a paradigm shift this is. Since the start of the industrial revolution, people leave their house and go to work. Now they're saying that's not going to happen. The economic impact here is so broad, on so many different areas And, you know, the reason is like, why not? Right? The productivity increase is real. We're seeing the productivity increase. Enterprises are spending on collaboration tools, productivity tools, We're seeing an increased perception in productivity of their workforce. And the CFOs can cut down an expense item. I just don't see a reason why this would end, you know, I think it's going to continue. And I also want to point out these results, as high as they are, were before the Omicron wave hit us. I can only imagine what these results would have been if we had sent the survey out just two or three weeks later. >> Yeah. That's a great point. Okay. Next prediction, we're going to look at the supply chain, specifically in how it's affecting some of the hardware spending and cloud strategies in the future. So in this chart, ETRS buyers, have you experienced problems procuring hardware as a result of supply chain issues? And, you know, despite the fact that some companies are, you know, I would call out Dell, for example, doing really well in terms of delivering, you can see that in the numbers, it's pretty clear, there's been an impact. And that's not not an across the board, you know, thing where vendors are able to deliver, especially acute in PCs, but also pronounced in networking, also in firewall servers and storage. And what's interesting is how companies are responding and reacting. So first, you know, I'm going to call the laptop and PC demand staying well above pre-COVID norms. It had peaked in 2012. Pre-pandemic it kept dropping and dropping and dropping, in terms of, you know, unit volume, where the market was contracting. And we think can continue to grow this year in double digits in 2022. But what's interesting, Erik, is when you survey customers, is despite the difficulty they're having in procuring network hardware, there's as much of a migration away from existing networks to the cloud. You could probably comment on that. Their networks are more fossilized, but when it comes to firewalls and servers and storage, there's a much higher propensity to move to the cloud. 30% of customers that ETR surveyed will replace security appliances with cloud services and 41% and 34% respectively will move to cloud compute and storage in 2022. So cloud's relentless march on traditional on-prem models continues. Erik, what do you make of this data? Please weigh in on this prediction. >> As if we needed another reason to go to the cloud. Right here, here it is yet again. So this was added to the survey by client demand. They were asking about the procurement difficulties, the supply chain issues, and how it was impacting our community. So this is the first time we ran it. And it really was interesting to see, you know, the move there. And storage particularly I found interesting because it correlated with a huge jump that we saw on one of our vendor names, which was Rubrik, had the highest net score that it's ever had. So clearly we're seeing some correlation with some of these names that are there, you know, really well positioned to take storage, to take data into the cloud. So again, you didn't need another reason to, you know, hasten this digital transformation, but here we are, we have it yet again, and I don't see it slowing down anytime soon. >> You know, that's a really good point. I mean, it's not necessarily bad news for the... I mean, obviously you wish that it had no change, would be great, but things, you know, always going to change. So we'll talk about this a little bit later when we get into the Supercloud conversation, but this is an opportunity for people who embrace the cloud. So we'll come back to that. And I want to hang on cloud a bit and share some recent projections that we've made. The next prediction is the big four cloud players are going to surpass 167 billion, an IaaS and PaaS revenue in 2022. We track this. Observers of this program know that we try to create an apples to apples comparison between AWS, Azure, GCP and Alibaba in IaaS and PaaS. So we're calling for 38% revenue growth in 2022, which is astounding for such a massive market. You know, AWS is probably not going to hit a hundred billion dollar run rate, but they're going to be close this year. And we're going to get there by 2023, you know they're going to surpass that. Azure continues to close the gap. Now they're about two thirds of the size of AWS and Google, we think is going to surpass Alibaba and take the number three spot. Erik, anything you'd like to add here? >> Yeah, first of all, just on a sector level, we saw our sector, new survey net score on cloud jumped another 10%. It was already really high at 48. Went up to 53. This train is not slowing down anytime soon. And we even added an edge compute type of player, like CloudFlare into our cloud bucket this year. And it debuted with a net score of almost 60. So this is really an area that's expanding, not just the big three, but everywhere. We even saw Oracle and IBM jump up. So even they're having success, taking some of their on-prem customers and then selling them to their cloud services. This is a massive opportunity and it's not changing anytime soon, it's going to continue. >> And I think the operative word there is opportunity. So, you know, the next prediction is something that we've been having fun with and that's this Supercloud becomes a thing. Now, the reason I say we've been having fun is we put this concept of Supercloud out and it's become a bit of a controversy. First, you know, what the heck's the Supercloud right? It's sort of a buzz-wordy term, but there really is, we believe, a thing here. We think there needs to be a rethinking or at least an evolution of the term multi-cloud. And what we mean is that in our view, you know, multicloud from a vendor perspective was really cloud compatibility. It wasn't marketed that way, but that's what it was. Either a vendor would containerize its legacy stack, shove it into the cloud, or a company, you know, they'd do the work, they'd build a cloud native service on one of the big clouds and they did do it for AWS, and then Azure, and then Google. But there really wasn't much, if any, leverage across clouds. Now from a buyer perspective, we've always said multicloud was a symptom of multi-vendor, meaning I got different workloads, running in different clouds, or I bought a company and they run on Azure, and I do a lot of work on AWS, but generally it wasn't necessarily a prescribed strategy to build value on top of hyperscale infrastructure. There certainly was somewhat of a, you know, reducing lock-in and hedging the risk. But we're talking about something more here. We're talking about building value on top of the hyperscale gift of hundreds of billions of dollars in CapEx. So in addition, we're not just talking about transforming IT, which is what the last 10 years of cloud have been like. And, you know, doing work in the cloud because it's cheaper or simpler or more agile, all of those things. So that's beginning to change. And this chart shows some of the technology vendors that are leaning toward this Supercloud vision, in our view, building on top of the hyperscalers that are highlighted in red. Now, Jerry Chan at Greylock, they wrote a piece called Castles in the Cloud. It got our thinking going, and he and the team at Greylock, they're building out a database of all the cloud services and all the sub-markets in cloud. And that got us thinking that there's a higher level of abstraction coalescing in the market, where there's tight integration of services across clouds, but the underlying complexity is hidden, and there's an identical experience across clouds, and even, in my dreams, on-prem for some platforms, so what's new or new-ish and evolving are things like location independence, you've got to include the edge on that, metadata services to optimize locality of reference and data source awareness, governance, privacy, you know, application independent and dependent, actually, recovery across clouds. So we're seeing this evolve. And in our view, the two biggest things that are new are the technology is evolving, where you're seeing services truly integrate cross-cloud. And the other big change is digital transformation, where there's this new innovation curve developing, and it's not just about making your IT better. It's about SaaS-ifying and automating your entire company workflows. So Supercloud, it's not just a vendor thing to us. It's the evolution of, you know, the, the Marc Andreessen quote, "Every company will be a SaaS company." Every company will deliver capabilities that can be consumed as cloud services. So Erik, the chart shows spending momentum on the y-axis and net score, or presence in the ETR data center, or market share on the x-axis. We've talked about snowflake as the poster child for this concept where the vision is you're in their cloud and sharing data in that safe place. Maybe you could make some comments, you know, what do you think of this Supercloud concept and this change that we're sensing in the market? >> Well, I think you did a great job describing the concept. So maybe I'll support it a little bit on the vendor level and then kind of give examples of the ones that are doing it. You stole the lead there with Snowflake, right? There is no better example than what we've seen with what Snowflake can do. Cross-portability in the cloud, the ability to be able to be, you know, completely agnostic, but then build those services on top. They're better than anything they could offer. And it's not just there. I mean, you mentioned edge compute, that's a whole nother layer where this is coming in. And CloudFlare, the momentum there is out of control. I mean, this is a company that started off just doing CDN and trying to compete with Okta Mite. And now they're giving you a full soup to nuts with security and actual edge compute layer, but it's a fantastic company. What they're doing, it's another great example of what you're seeing here. I'm going to call out HashiCorp as well. They're more of an infrastructure services, a little bit more of an open-source freemium model, but what they're doing as well is completely cloud agnostic. It's dynamic. It doesn't care if you're in a container, it doesn't matter where you are. They recently IPO'd and they're down 25%, but their data looks so good across both of our emerging technology and TISA survey. It's certainly another name that's playing on this. And another one that we mentioned as well is Rubrik. If you need storage, compute, and in the cloud layer and you need to be agnostic to it, they're another one that's really playing in this space. So I think it's a great concept you're bringing up. I think it's one that's here to stay and there's certainly a lot of vendors that fit into what you're describing. >> Excellent. Thank you. All right, let's shift to data. The next prediction, it might be a little tough to measure. Before I said we're trying to be a little black and white here, but it relates to Data Mesh, which is, the ideas behind that term were created by Zhamak Dehghani of ThoughtWorks. And we see Data Mesh is really gaining momentum in 2022, but it's largely going to be, we think, confined to a more narrow scope. Now, the impetus for change in data architecture in many companies really stems from the fact that their Hadoop infrastructure really didn't solve their data problems and they struggle to get more value out of their data investments. Data Mesh prescribes a shift to a decentralized architecture in domain ownership of data and a shift to data product thinking, beyond data for analytics, but data products and services that can be monetized. Now this a very powerful in our view, but they're difficult for organizations to get their heads around and further decentralization creates the need for a self-service platform and federated data governance that can be automated. And not a lot of standards around this. So it's going to take some time. At our power panel a couple of weeks ago on data management, Tony Baer predicted a backlash on Data Mesh. And I don't think it's going to be so much of a backlash, but rather the adoption will be more limited. Most implementations we think are going to use a starting point of AWS and they'll enable domains to access and control their own data lakes. And while that is a very small slice of the Data Mesh vision, I think it's going to be a starting point. And the last thing I'll say is, this is going to take a decade to evolve, but I think it's the right direction. And whether it's a data lake or a data warehouse or a data hub or an S3 bucket, these are really, the concept is, they'll eventually just become nodes on the data mesh that are discoverable and access is governed. And so the idea is that the stranglehold that the data pipeline and process and hyper-specialized roles that they have on data agility is going to evolve. And decentralized architectures and the democratization of data will eventually become a norm for a lot of different use cases. And Erik, I wonder if you'd add anything to this. >> Yeah. There's a lot to add there. The first thing that jumped out to me was that that mention of the word backlash you said, and you said it's not really a backlash, but what it could be is these are new words trying to solve an old problem. And I do think sometimes the industry will notice that right away and maybe that'll be a little pushback. And the problems are what you already mentioned, right? We're trying to get to an area where we can have more assets in our data site, more deliverable, and more usable and relevant to the business. And you mentioned that as self-service with governance laid on top. And that's really what we're trying to get to. Now, there's a lot of ways you can get there. Data fabric is really the technical aspect and data mesh is really more about the people, the process, and the governance, but the two of those need to meet, in order to make that happen. And as far as tools, you know, there's even cataloging names like Informatica that play in this, right? Istio plays in this, Snowflake plays in this. So there's a lot of different tools that will support it. But I think you're right in calling out AWS, right? They have AWS Lake, they have AWS Glue. They have so much that's trying to drive this. But I think the really important thing to keep here is what you said. It's going to be a decade long journey. And by the way, we're on the shoulders of giants a decade ago that have even gotten us to this point to talk about these new words because this has been an ongoing type of issue, but ultimately, no matter which vendors you use, this is going to come down to your data governance plan and the data literacy in your business. This is really about workflows and people as much as it is tools. So, you know, the new term of data mesh is wonderful, but you still have to have the people and the governance and the processes in place to get there. >> Great, thank you for that, Erik. Some great points. All right, for the next prediction, we're going to shine the spotlight on two of our favorite topics, Snowflake and Databricks, and the prediction here is that, of course, Databricks is going to IPO this year, as expected. Everybody sort of expects that. And while, but the prediction really is, well, while these two companies are facing off already in the market, they're also going to compete with each other for M&A, especially as Databricks, you know, after the IPO, you're going to have, you know, more prominence and a war chest. So first, these companies, they're both looking pretty good, the same XY graph with spending velocity and presence and market share on the horizontal axis. And both Snowflake and Databricks are well above that magic 40% red dotted line, the elevated line, to us. And for context, we've included a few other firms. So you can see kind of what a good position these two companies are really in, especially, I mean, Snowflake, wow, it just keeps moving to the right on this horizontal picture, but maintaining the next net score in the Y axis. Amazing. So, but here's the thing, Databricks is using the term Lakehouse implying that it has the best of data lakes and data warehouses. And Snowflake has the vision of the data cloud and data sharing. And Snowflake, they've nailed analytics, and now they're moving into data science in the domain of Databricks. Databricks, on the other hand, has nailed data science and is moving into the domain of Snowflake, in the data warehouse and analytics space. But to really make this seamless, there has to be a semantic layer between these two worlds and they're either going to build it or buy it or both. And there are other areas like data clean rooms and privacy and data prep and governance and machine learning tooling and AI, all that stuff. So the prediction is they'll not only compete in the market, but they'll step up and in their competition for M&A, especially after the Databricks IPO. We've listed some target names here, like Atscale, you know, Iguazio, Infosum, Habu, Immuta, and I'm sure there are many, many others. Erik, you care to comment? >> Yeah. I remember a year ago when we were talking Snowflake when they first came out and you, and I said, "I'm shocked if they don't use this war chest of money" "and start going after more" "because we know Slootman, we have so much respect for him." "We've seen his playbook." And I'm actually a little bit surprised that here we are, at 12 months later, and he hasn't spent that money yet. So I think this prediction's just spot on. To talk a little bit about the data side, Snowflake is in rarefied air. It's all by itself. It is the number one net score in our entire TISA universe. It is absolutely incredible. There's almost no negative intentions. Global 2000 organizations are increasing their spend on it. We maintain our positive outlook. It's really just, you know, stands alone. Databricks, however, also has one of the highest overall net sentiments in the entire universe, not just its area. And this is the first time we're coming up positive on this name as well. It looks like it's not slowing down. Really interesting comment you made though that we normally hear from our end-user commentary in our panels and our interviews. Databricks is really more used for the data science side. The MLAI is where it's best positioned in our survey. So it might still have some catching up to do to really have that caliber of usability that you know Snowflake is seeing right now. That's snowflake having its own marketplace. There's just a lot more to Snowflake right now than there is Databricks. But I do think you're right. These two massive vendors are sort of heading towards a collision course, and it'll be very interesting to see how they deploy their cash. I think Snowflake, with their incredible management and leadership, probably will make the first move. >> Well, I think you're right on that. And by the way, I'll just add, you know, Databricks has basically said, hey, it's going to be easier for us to come from data lakes into data warehouse. I'm not sure I buy that. I think, again, that semantic layer is a missing ingredient. So it's going to be really interesting to see how this plays out. And to your point, you know, Snowflake's got the war chest, they got the momentum, they've got the public presence now since November, 2020. And so, you know, they're probably going to start making some aggressive moves. Anyway, next prediction is something, Erik, that you and I have talked about many, many times, and that is observability. I know it's one of your favorite topics. And we see this world screaming for more consolidation it's going all in on cloud native. These legacy stacks, they're fighting to stay relevant, but the direction is pretty clear. And the same XY graph lays out the players in the field, with some of the new entrants that we've also highlighted, like Observe and Honeycomb and ChaosSearch that we've talked about. Erik, we put a big red target around Splunk because everyone wants their gold. So please give us your thoughts. >> Oh man, I feel like I've been saying negative things about Splunk for too long. I've got a bad rap on this name. The Splunk shareholders come after me all the time. Listen, it really comes down to this. They're a fantastic company that was designed to do logging and monitoring and had some great tool sets around what you could do with it. But they were designed for the data center. They were designed for prem. The world we're in now is so dynamic. Everything I hear from our end user community is that all net new workloads will be going to cloud native players. It's that simple. So Splunk has entrenched. It's going to continue doing what it's doing and it does it really, really well. But if you're doing something new, the new workloads are going to be in a dynamic environment and that's going to go to the cloud native players. And in our data, it is extremely clear that that means Datadog and Elastic. They are by far number one and two in net score, increase rates, adoption rates. It's not even close. Even New Relic actually is starting to, you know, entrench itself really well. We saw New Relic's adoption's going up, which is super important because they went to that freemium model, you know, to try to get their little bit of an entrenched customer base and that's working as well. And then you made a great list here, of all the new entrants, but it goes beyond this. There's so many more. In our emerging technology survey, we're seeing Century, Catchpoint, Securonix, Lucid Works. There are so many options in this space. And let's not forget, the biggest data that we're seeing is with Grafana. And Grafana labs as yet to turn on their enterprise. Elastic did it, why can't Grafana labs do it? They have an enterprise stack. So when you look at how crowded this space is, there has to be consolidation. I recently hosted a panel and every single guy on that panel said, "Please give me a consolidation." Because they're the end users trying to actually deploy these and it's getting a little bit confusing. >> Great. Thank you for that. Okay. Last prediction. Erik, might be a little out of your wheelhouse, but you know, you might have some thoughts on it. And that's a hybrid events become the new digital model and a new category in 2022. You got these pure play digital or virtual events. They're going to take a back seat to in-person hybrids. The virtual experience will eventually give way to metaverse experiences and that's going to take some time, but the physical hybrid is going to drive it. And metaverse is ultimately going to define the virtual experience because the virtual experience today is not great. Nobody likes virtual. And hybrid is going to become the business model. Today's pure virtual experience has to evolve, you know, theCUBE first delivered hybrid mid last decade, but nobody really wanted it. We did Mobile World Congress last summer in Barcelona in an amazing hybrid model, which we're showing in some of the pictures here. Alex, if you don't mind bringing that back up. And every physical event that we're we're doing now has a hybrid and virtual component, including the pre-records. You can see in our studios, you see that the green screen. I don't know. Erik, what do you think about, you know, the Zoom fatigue and all this. I know you host regular events with your round tables, but what are your thoughts? >> Well, first of all, I think you and your company here have just done an amazing job on this. So that's really your expertise. I spent 20 years of my career hosting intimate wall street idea dinners. So I'm better at navigating a wine list than I am navigating a conference floor. But I will say that, you know, the trend just goes along with what we saw. If 35% are going to be fully remote. If 70% are going to be hybrid, then our events are going to be as well. I used to host round table dinners on, you know, one or two nights a week. Now those have gone virtual. They're now panels. They're now one-on-one interviews. You know, we do chats. We do submitted questions. We do what we can, but there's no reason that this is going to change anytime soon. I think you're spot on here. >> Yeah. Great. All right. So there you have it, Erik and I, Listen, we always love the feedback. Love to know what you think. Thank you, Erik, for your partnership, your collaboration, and love doing these predictions with you. >> Yeah. I always enjoy them too. And I'm actually happy. Last year you made us do a baker's dozen, so thanks for keeping it to 10 this year. >> (laughs) We've got a lot to say. I know, you know, we cut out. We didn't do much on crypto. We didn't really talk about SaaS. I mean, I got some thoughts there. We didn't really do much on containers and AI. >> You want to keep going? I've got another 10 for you. >> RPA...All right, we'll have you back and then let's do that. All right. All right. Don't forget, these episodes are all available as podcasts, wherever you listen, all you can do is search Breaking Analysis podcast. Check out ETR's website at etr.plus, they've got a new website out. It's the best data in the industry, and we publish a full report every week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. You can always reach out on email, David.Vellante@siliconangle.com I'm @DVellante on Twitter. Comment on our LinkedIn posts. This is Dave Vellante for the Cube Insights powered by ETR. Have a great week, stay safe, be well. And we'll see you next time. (mellow music)

>>From the Bellagio hotel in Las Vegas. It's the cube covering UI path forward for brought to you by UI path. >>Hey, welcome back to Las Vegas. Lisa Martin, with Dave Volante, the cube is here, live at UI path forward for very excited to be here in person. Next topic, the smart factory, a couple of guests here to unpack that for us, Jason Brixton joins us the smart factory lead at Deloitte and Thomas Hanson, the CRO of UI path gentlemen, and welcome to the program. Thank you. Thank you for having us great to have you great to be in person. Let's talk about smart track factory factory Ford auto. What is it from Deloitte perspective and then UI path. >>So if you think about smart factory, it's really that transition from the old kind of analog manufacturing environment to the digital, digital operating type environment that we see today. So technology has really changed in the last three or four years. And as a result of that elevation of technology, we're able to do a lot more on the manufacturing floor than we ever could. So what used to be more analog or hybrid with a little bit of technology is now starting to shift really to end to end integrated manufacturing operations that are based on digital platforms and we're loving it. It's a great place to be >>Great. Tell us what's your perspective? >>Well, first of all, it's great to be here. Thank you for the invite. It's so nice to be away from soon calls or, or other type of, uh, of calls, right. And be in person. Uh, look, we have an amazing partnership with the lights. Um, we have worked together for years. We've done more than 400 joint engagements with the large companies across the world. And in that process, we've really gone deeper from a vertical and industry perspective and smart factory is really the starting point of going super specific and figuring out what does automation or how does automation rather play into, um, to a, to a smart factory, like a beautiful trombone, that music from a beautiful trombone. >>So years ago, we wrote a piece talking about the cloud as an opportunity and how to take advantage of it. And one of the, the premise of the piece was you've got to build ecosystems and maybe it's within an industry or within a practice and build data in different disciplines because the power of many versus the capabilities of one, this smart factory initiative that you guys have going, it feels like an ecosystem play. Can you describe that ecosystem? Who's involved? I know SAP in for AWS, but, but tell us more about the ECOS. >>Yeah, sure. So your, your hunch, there is a great one, right? We, we learned early on that trying to do this as Deloitte or Deloitte plus one just, wasn't going to get it done, right? You really needed to harness the power of the many. And so at the, at the core of what we're doing at the smart factory at Wichita, that you alluded to is about bringing an ecosystem to life. So we have 21 partners that are going to be participating out of the gate with the smart factory. Wichitan the intent is to show a seamless solution and actual end-to-end production facility that showcases 21 amazing technologies and partners. And we're just really thrilled about what we're able to show our clients. So, >>Yep. So Koch industries owns Inforce. So obviously that's the Wichita connection, is that right? So they got to be involved in this. I mean, they were amazing company, but what can you tell us about, uh, their, their involvement? >>Yep. So Coke, obviously the in for connection, uh, Dragos, which is another in four company as a founder within, uh, within the ecosystem, which is fantastic. There they play at the core. They're also an incredibly important client, right? So the Coke business on the whole is critical to how we think about manufacturing across a whole range of industries from discreet production to scale process. Um, they're fantastic partners and we've had a great time working with them. And you guys are just, >>It's about to launch through soft launch. Can you tell us more where you are in the progression? >>Sure. So soft launch started two days ago. Oh wow. So the building, we have the keys, uh, we are doing some visits with a handful of friends and family, that ecosystem partners that you mentioned, there'll be coming out, uh, to see it and to provide some feedback. And then we go live in earnest in January >>At Thomas where's UI path fit. >>Well, we fit in essay as a key part in this initiative. Um, look, we, as a company, we are part the preferred partner. First, we do all our business together with partners and we have right about almost 5,000 partners now, globally. And then there's a few, then there's a few in that 5,000 that are unique that really stand out. And Deloitte of course is one of those very, very special partners that we work with globally, but also locally here in the us, across all the states across all the industries. So we're thrilled to be part of this automation plays a key key part of smart factory. When you think about it, the evolution of work there's so much boring, mundane work on there. Humankind is better served, spending their time and effort on the non mundane on the innovative on the creative. And that's what we try to ensure that the humans in the loop so to speak are focused on the innovative work, the graded work, and we have software robots, RPA automation handle all that boring and mundane work, >>Right? Letting the folks focus on the value, add to themselves a value add to the organization, more strategic investments. Thomas question for you is in terms of you talked about this being horizontal across industries, but I'm curious about what some of the feedback is from some of your customers, 8,000 customers. Now you've got a very large what, 726 million ARR, huge lot of customers over a hundred million ARR. What's been the feedback from some of those guys. >>Well, so first of all, uh, personally, I I've been in enterprise software for more than 20 years. And what I've experienced over the years are most large scale enterprise software projects tends to be multi-year in nature, be rather complex. And the failure rate can be rather high. Then in comes RPA and automation, which is a complete different kettle of fish in the sense that from conceptualization of identifying a process, to getting it built, getting it tested, getting it into production, you're talking days and weeks only. So the path to seeing value is so fast. What I've learned yesterday and today from the 1516 customer meetings I've had so far is the same unique trend or learning across all industries and also from various parts of the world. And that is very fast realization of value, perhaps starting initially with 5, 10 20 processes and then scaling super fast because the find that return on investment incredibly quickly with our solution. So that's what unifies it across geographies and across industries. >>What'd you think about the smart factory? And one of the things we've learned during COVID is there's so much unknown. So sometimes these processes aren't linear like a trombone, you know, going back and forth in and out, but is there unknown in the smart factory processes or is it pretty well known? And you can do the process mining on that known base. What's the dynamic >>Back there. So there's a few different dimensions to it. So yes, it is well known because it's a controlled environment, but one of the things that we're doing is we're actually actively introducing a lot of unknown factors to try to let the bots and the process mining kick into effect. Right? So we're artificially, let's just say injecting opportunity for us to do that. The other thing that we're doing is, and what's really unique about the smart factory at Wichita is it's one of four across the globe for Deloitte. And so we're bringing data in from the other three sites, which is data, that'll be less controlled. We're going to do process mining on that. Just try to take advantage of some of the, some of the capabilities associated with the solutions. >>Okay. So, so w when you think about process mining, do you start there, or do you start with, I sometimes call it paving the cow path, you know, taking what you've known, that linear process that, that hit that as the quick win, and then worry about the process money, or do you step back and say, wait a minute, we have to rethink the entire factory experience. Where do you start? >>I think it depends in the case of the smart factory with that, we've got a few different places, so we're using it to do ingestion of orders. So that's obviously a very controlled environment. We're then using it to do a lot of work around inventory management and optimization as well as month end close plays, which will be a lot more we're learning as we go. Right. So I think on the spectrum, it could be on either end my personal belief. If you look at it more long-term or actually out in the real world is that this is all about learning new things. It's about generating insights from data that frankly, you don't want human beings to have to go do that. And so having the ability to take advantage of an intelligent automation solution, as powerful as UI path is really a great advantage. >>One of the things that's misunderstood, I think about UI path is they look at what happened post let's say 2015, 2016, and say, oh, just like, just like every other Silicon valley company, double, double, triple, triple. And that's not how you guys started. You sort of let things bake for the better part of a decade and then got product market fit and then exploded. Um, and so that's, that to me was a key to your success in scaling this. I feel like you guys are building a new offering here. This is not just doing a one-off the product market fit. It's not like a point product. It's a, it's a big thing. So can you talk about the go to market, your product market fit? You're testing it out now, your goals, are you trying to scale this up? What, what are some of the things that you can share about your aspirations? So >>The partnership from a UI path perspective to Deloitte is a critical partnership. One of the select few on a global level, uh, we have enjoyed tremendous, uh, amount of engagements together. I mentioned early on 400, and I believe we, we now have together right about 1000 developers trained within your organization on your iPod, right? That's right. Yep. So we have a strong base that, of course we want to build full and hopefully put a syrup behind the thousand to 10,000. And over time, we want to make sure that it's globally inclusive, that we can serve all the marketers across the world where we have giant presence. And there's a select number of verticals and industries where we really have had success together that we of course want to go and specifically shoe in on what would have caused now be manufacturing together. And of course, a classic vertical we've been very strong in together as BFSI bank and financial services industry. So those are good areas. >>Well, Jason, you're building a business out of this, right? I mean, you've got a business plan around it and you're going to scale this thing. >>Oh, absolutely. Yeah. That's 100% the case. So we have smart factory at Wichita. That is part of our positioning in the marketplace. What we found is that telling people about tech and about solutions is one thing, showing it to them in a production environment is altogether different, right? Giving clients the opportunity to explore the art of the possible in a real setting like that is incredibly impactful. And so you talked about go to market, we see this relationship with the ecosystem and what we're trying to do in Wichita, that's sort of the epicenter of building an entire business, which ultimately will have huge global potential. >>We talk about speed for a minute. And the growth trajectory that UI path Thomas has been on for the last five years or so. I think I was reading, I think it was analysis that Dave wrote that in 2016 revenue was 1,000,020, 20, 15, 20, 20 600 million. So massive growth very quickly. My question, Jason is for you in terms of the speed. Ha how quickly are you looking to see the smart factory for Dato really impacting organizations around the globe because these guys are on a fast bulleted. >>Yeah. So I wish we had those growth rates. I will say though, selling and delivering these solutions holistically to manufacturers takes more time. So we think of our cycle as be measured, certainly in many months, certainly not years. We are starting to see an acceleration of that entire sales cycle and delivery cycle, just because of things like the pandemic driving organizations to just need to move faster. Frankly, if you're not moving towards digital manufacturing operations right now, you're probably behind. And so we're seeing that urgency from the market start to pick up, but we don't have that kind of growth rate, unfortunately. >>Well, what's it. What's interesting about Deloitte to me is you guys here, I think of you as a virtual company. I mean, I know you got a lot of bodies out there, but it's not like you've got a lot of physical locations. Right. And so now, but now you're just, you're investing in a physical plant essentially, >>Which is extremely exciting. We, we keep telling ourselves when we talk to folks, they own lots of buildings. So just because we're excited about our building doesn't mean they are, but you're exactly right, right. We're obviously a global services and products company. So this is one of a handful of buildings that are going to start to represent us as an organization. And we're really excited about what should we watch? >>It's kind of milestones for progress success. What are the markers that we should be paying attention to is independence. >>I think specifically on this, um, rapid experiment together, I think one of the key learnings we can take away that we can apply to other companies in the manufacturing industry specifically look from a UI perspective. We work with many large scale manufacturers around the world, but we've seen amazing fast progress with Bridgestone. For example, we implemented a smaller set of, uh, uh, bots that help them reduce their paperwork by 85% onto their branches with a Turkish e-commerce retailer called Archer. Lik I think I get the pronunciation correctly. They put 85 processes in place with our bots and are now to date transacting or running. I think it's 3 million e-commerce transactions with our processes. So the impact we can have in manufacturing together with the learnings from this, my factory, I think is just so exciting. Really? >>Yeah. The impact, the potential there is, is unlimited. Guys. Thank you for joining David, me talking to us about smart factory Ford auto, what it means for both businesses, how the partnership is evolving. It sounds like music from a beautiful trombone. Thank you so much for joining Dave and me today. Thank you For Dave Volante. I'm Lisa Martin. The Cubas live in Las Vegas at the Bellagio at UI path forward for we'll be right back.

>>From the Bellagio hotel in Las Vegas, it's the cube covering UI path forward for brought to you by >>Welcome to the cubes coverage of UI path forward for live from Las Vegas. We're here at the Bellagio. Lisa Martin, with Dave a long time, very excited to have in-person events back ish. I'll say we're going to be talking about automation as a boardroom imperative. We have two guests joining us here, James Matras here consulting principal. America's intelligent automation leader at UI and Irv. Dennis retired EA partner, and former CFO of HUD gentlemen. Welcome to the program. Exciting topic automation as a boardroom imperative, James says COO and start with you. How do you discuss the value of automation as being a key component and driver of transformation? >>That's a great question. I think what we've seen in the last couple of years is the evolution of what automation used to be. Two is going nine. And we've seen the shift from what we call generation one, which is very RPA centric type automation to more generation two, which is the combined integration of multiple technologies. It can target an intern process and it's quite important that you understand the pivotal shift because it's not enabling us to move from a task micro top agenda to a macro agenda actually impacts an organization at a strategic level. The ability to be able to look at processes more deeply to automate them in an end to end process collectively and use these different technologies in a synergistic manner truly becomes powerful because it shifts the narrative from a micro process agenda into more systemic area. >>So gen zero is an Emmanuel gen one is RPA point tools that individual maybe getting their personal productivity out. And then now you're saying gen three is across the enterprise. Where are we in terms of, you know, take your experience from your practical experience? Where do you think the world is? It's like probably between zero and one still. Right. But the advanced folks of thinking about gen three, w what's your, >>Yeah, it's a great question. And, um, when you and I, I can do the comparison being private and public sector on this because I was 37 years with E Y then went into retirement and CFL at HUD CFO. Ed was, was a HUD was nowhere. They had to just do all the intelligence digitalization, um, throughout, uh, from scratch. The private sector is probably five or six years ahead of them. But when you think about James talks about the gen one, two and three, the private sector is probably somewhere between two and three. And I know we're talking about the board in this conversation. Um, boards probably have one and two on their radar. Some boards may have three, some may not, but that's where the real strategic focus for boards needs to be is looking forward and, and getting ahead. But I think from a public sector standpoint, lot to go private sector, more to go as well. But, uh, there's a, there's a bit of a gap, but the public sector is probably only about three or four years behind the private sector >>To be okay. Let's look at the numbers, look at, look at the progress for the quarter. And now it's like discussion on cyber discussion on digital discussion on automated issue. It really changed the narrative over the last decade. >>Yeah, I think when you think of boards today, the lots of conversation on cyber that that conversation has been around for a while. A lot of conversation on ESG today, that conversation is getting, getting very popular. But I think when you think of next three, a Jen talks that bear James talks about, um, that's got to start elevating itself if it's not within the boardroom right now, because that will be the future of the company. And the way I think of it from a board's conversation is if a company doesn't think of themselves as a technology company in all aspects, no matter what you do, you are a technology company or you need to be. And if you're not thinking along that way, you're gonna, you're gonna lose market share and you're going to start falling behind your competitors. >>Well, and how much acceleration did the pandemic bring to just that organizations that weren't digital forward last year are probably gone? >>I think it certainly has shifted quite a lot. There's been a drive, the relevance of technology and hard plays for us in the modern workforce in the modern workplace has fundamentally changed the pandemic. We reimagine how we do things. Technology has progressed in itself significantly, and that made a big difference for, for all the environments as a result of that. So certainly is one of the byproducts of the pandemic has been certainly a good thing for everybody. >>Where does automation fit in the board? Virginia? You've got compensation committee. You've probably, I mean, there's somebody in charge of cyber. You got ESG now there's automation part of a broader digital agenda. Where's what's the right word. >>You know, I, I would personally put it in a enterprise risk management from a standpoint that if you're not focused on it, it's going to be a risk to the enterprise. And, um, when you think of automation and intelligent automation and RPA, uh, I think boards have a pretty good sense of how you interface with your customers and your vendors. I think a big push ought to be looking internally at your own infrastructure. You know, what are you, what are you doing in the HR space? What are you doing in a financial statement, close process? What are you doing your procurement process? I suspect there's still a lot of very routine transactions and processing within those, that infrastructure that if you just apply some RPA artificial intelligence, that data extraction techniques, you can probably eliminate a lot of man hours from the routine stuff. And, and the many man hours is probably not the right way to think of it. You could elevate people's work from being pushing numbers around to being data analyzers. And that's where the excitement is for people to see. >>It's not how it's viewed at organizations. We're not eliminating hours. Well focusing folks on much more strategic down at a test. >>Yes. I would say that that's exactly right now in the private sector, you're always going to have the efficiency play and profitability. So there will be an element of that. I know when at HUD we're, we're focused, we were not focused on eliminating hours because we needed people and we focused on creating efficiencies within the space and having people convert from, again, being Trent routine transactions, to being data analyzers and made the jobs, I'm sure. Fund for them as well. I mean, this is a lot of fun stuff. And, and if, uh, uh, companies need to be pushing this down through their entire infrastructure, not just dealing with our customers and the third parties that they deal with >>Catalyst or have been public sector. So you mentioned they may be five or six years behind, but I've seen certain public sector organizations really lean in, they learn from, from the private sector. And then even when you think about some of the military, how advanced they are absolutely. You know, the private could learn from them and if they could open it up. But >>So, yeah, I think that's, that's well said I was in this, you know, the that's the civilian part with, with the housing and urban development. I think the catalyst is, uh, bringing the expertise in, uh, I know when I, when I came, I went to HUD to elevate their financial infrastructure. It was, it was probably the worst of the cabinet agency. The financials were a mess. There was no, there was a, uh, there was not a clean audit opinion for eight years. And I was there to fix that and we fixed it through digitalization and digital transformation, as well as a financial transformation. The catalyst is just creating the education, letting people know what is, what, what technology can do. You don't have to be a programmer, but it's like driving a car. Anybody can drive a car, but we can't mechanic, you know, work as a mechanic on it. >>So I think it's creating education, letting people know what it can do. And at HUD, for example, we did a very simple, I was telling James earlier, we did a very simple RPA project on an, an, a financial statement, close process. It was 2,600 hours, six months. Once we implemented the RPA, brought that down to 70 hours, two weeks, people's eyes exploded with it. And then all of a sudden, I said, I want everyone to go back and come back with, with any manual process, any routine process that can convert to an RPA. And I got a list of a hundred, then it came then became trying to slow everything down. We're not going to do it overnight. Yeah, exactly. >>So, but it was self-funding. It was >>Self-funded. Yes. >>And, and how do you take that message to customers that it could be self-funding how how's that resonating >>Very well. And I think it was important. I always like to say, it's a point of differentiation because you look at, uh, mentioned earlier that organizations are basically technology companies. That's what they are. But now if you look across that we no longer compete at the ERP level without got SAP, Oracle, it's not a point of differentiation. We don't compete the application layer where they've got service. Now, black line, how we use them is helpful. We competed the digital layer and with automation is a major component of that. That's where your differentiation takes place. Now, if you have a point of differentiation, that is self-funding, it fundamentally changes the game. And that's why it's so important for boards to understand this, because that risk management, if you've not doing it, somebody is getting ahead of the game much faster than you are. >>Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned ERP and it, and it triggered something in my mind. Cause I, I said this 10 years ago about data. If in the nineties, you, you couldn't have picked SAP necessarily as the winner of ERP. But if you could have picked the companies that were using ERP could have made a lot of money in the stock market because they outperform their peers. And the same thing was true with data. And I think the same thing is going to be true with automation in the coming decade. >>Couldn't agree more. And I think that's exactly the point that differential acceleration happening this. And it's harder because of the Europeans. Once you knew what it was, you can put the boundaries on it. Digital, the options are infinite. It's just continuous progress as are from there. >>I've got a question for you. You talked about some great stats about how dramatically faster things were took far less time. How does that help from an adoption perspective? I know how much cultural change is very difficult for folks in any organization, but that sort of self-serving how does that help fuel adoption? >>Well, it's interesting. Um, it's, it is a, we're actually going to talk about this tomorrow. It is a framework and it's got to start at the leadership has got to start with governance. It's got to start with a detailed plan. That's executable. And it's got to start with getting buy-in from not only your, the, the organization, but the people you're dealing with outside the organization. Um, it's, it's, uh, I think that's absolutely critical. And when you bring this back to the boardroom, they are the leaders of the companies. And, and I, James, I talked about this as we're getting ready for tomorrow's session. I think the number one thing a board can do today is an own personal self assessment. Do they understand automation? Do they understand what next generation three is? Do they understand what the different components can do? And do they understand how the companies are implementing it? And if I was a board member, uh, on our boards, I say, we need to understand that or else this is nothing's going to happen. We're going to be here at the reliance of the CEO and the CFO strategy, which may or may not include or be thinking about this next three. So leadership at the top is going to drive this. And it's so critical. >>We were talking about catalyst before. And you mentioned education and expertise. I'm always curious as to what drew you to public sector because it's, yeah, I mean, very successful, you know, you're, you're with one of the global SIS directly, you can make a lot more money and that side. So what was it did, was it a desire to it's a great country? Was it >>Take one for the team and I'm going to do a selfish plug here. I just actually wrote a book in this whole thing called transforming a federal agency. What's the name of the book transforming and federal agency. And it's, uh, I spent my time at E Y for 37 years, fully retired. I wanted to give back and do meaningful work. And we lived in Columbus, Ohio, as I was talking about earlier, I was going to go teach and I got a call from the president's personnel office to see if I wanted to come. And these, the CFO at HUD with secretary Carson and change turn the agency around, uh, that took me a little while to say yes, because I wasn't sure I wanted something full time. It was a, it was in DC. So I'd be in a commuting role back and forth. My family's in Columbus. >>Um, but it was, uh, I did it and I loved it. It was, uh, I would pray, I would ask anyone that's has the ability to go into public service at any point in their career to do it. It's it was very rewarding. It was one of my favorite three years of life. And to your point, I didn't have to do it, but, uh, if I wanted to do something and give back and that met the criteria and we were very successful in turning it around with the digital transformation and a lot of stuff that we're talking about today gave me the ability to talk about it because I helped lead it >>For sharing that and did it. So did it start with the CFO's office? Because the first time I ever even heard about our RPO RPA was at a CFO conference and I started talking to him like, oh, this is going to be game changing. Is that where it started? Is that where it lands today? >>From an infrastructure standpoint, the CFO has the wonderful ability to see most processes within a company and its entire lifestyle from beginning to end. So CFO has that visibility to understand where efficiencies can happen in the process. And so the CFO plays a dramatically important role in this. And you think about a CFO's role today versus 20 years ago, it's no longer this, the bean counter rolling up numbers that become a business advisors to the board, to the CEO and to the executive suite. Um, so the CFO, I think has probably the best visibility of all the processes on a global basis. And they can see where the, the efficiencies and the implementation of automation can happen. >>So they can be catalysts and really fueling the actual >>Redesign of work. Yes, they, they, they probably need to be the catalyst. And as a board member, you want to be asking what is the CFO's strategic imperative for the next year? And if it doesn't include this, it's just got to get on the agenda. >>Well, curve ball here is his CFO question and you know, three years or two years ago, you wouldn't have even thought, I mean, let me set it up better. One of the industries that is highly automated is crypto. Yeah. You wouldn't even thought about crypto in your balance sheet a couple of years ago, but I'm not sure it's a widespread board level discussion, but as a CFO, what do you make of the trend to put Bitcoin on balance sheets? >>Yeah, I'm probably not the right person to ask because I'm a conservative guy. >>If somebody supported me and he said, Hey, why don't we put crypto on the balance sheet? >>I would get much more educated. I wouldn't shut it down. I would put it into, let's get more educated. Let's get the experts in here. Let's understand what's really happening with it. Let's understand what the risks are, what the rewards are. And can we absorb any sort of risk or reward with it? And when you say put it on the balance sheet, you can put it on in a small way to test it out. I wouldn't put the whole, I wouldn't make the whole balance sheet for Dell on day one. So that's why I would think about it. Just tell, tell me more, get me educated. How did you think about it? How can it help our business? How can I help our shareholders? How does it grow the bottom line? And then, then you start making decisions. >>Cause CFOs, let me find nature often conservative and most CFOs that I talked to just say no way, not a chance, but you're, maybe you're not as conservative as you think. Well, >>No, but I will never say go away on anything. I mean, cause I want to learn. I want to know. I mean, um, if you like all this stuff, that's new, it's easy to say go away, right? Yeah. But all of a sudden, three years later, the go away, all your competitors are doing it at a competitive advantage. So never say go away, get yourself educated before you jump into it. >>That's good advice. Yeah. In any walk of life question for you, or have you talked about the education aspect there? I'm curious from a risk mitigation perspective, especially given the last 18, 19 months, so tumultuous, so scary for all those organizations that were very digital, they're either gone or they accelerated very quickly. How much of an education do you have to provide certain industries? And are you seeing certain industries? I think healthcare manufacturing, financial services as being leaders in the uptake? >>Well, I think the financial service industries, for sure, they, they, they get this and then they need to, uh, cause they, you know, they're, they're a transaction and based, uh, industry. Uh, so they get it completely. Um, you know, I think maybe some manufacturing distribution, some of the old line businesses are, you know, they may not be thinking of this as progressively as they should. Um, but they'll get there. They're going to have to get there eventually. Um, you know, when you think about the education, my, I thought you were gonna ask a question about the education of the workforce. And I think as a board member, I would be really focused on, uh, how am I educating my workforce of the future? And do I have the workforce of the future today? Do I have to educate them to have to bring in hiring for it? Do I have to bring third-party service providers to get us there? So as a board member really focus on, do I have the right workforce to get us to this next stage? And if not, what do I need to do to get there? Because >>We'll allocate a percentage of their budgets to training and education. And the question is where do they put it >>In? Is it the right training and education, right? >>Where do they focus though? Right now we hear you iPad talking about they're a horizontal play, but James, when you and Lisa, we were asking about industry, when you go to market, are you, are you more focused on verticals? Are you thinking, >>No, it's on two things. So which often find is regardless of the sector with some nuanced variation, the back office functions are regionally the procure to pay process as the same fundamentals, regardless of the sector where the differentiation comes in at a sector of service is when you start going to the middle of the front office, I mean a mining has only one customer. They sold their product to image the retailer has an endless number of them. So when you get to the middle and front office and really start engaging with a customer and external vendors, then a differentiation is very unique and you'd have a lot of sort of customers having sector specific nuances and variations in how you use the platform. And that's where the shift now is happening as well is the back office functions that are largely driven by the CFO. If now getting good, robust value out of it, there's pivot to make it a differentiator in the market, comes in the front and middle office. And that's where we starting to say, sector specific genres solutions, nuances really come to the fall >>Deep industry expertise. Do you think digital at all changes that the reason I ask it because I see Amazon as a retail and then they're in cloud and they're in grocery other in content Apple's in, in financial services and you're seeing these internet giants with a dual agenda, they're disrupting horizontal technology and then there's disruptive industries. And my premise is it's because of data and digital. Do you ever see that industry specialization changing that value chain >>Without a doubt? And I think it's happens initially. It starts off. When people have started looking at the process, they realize there's such key dependencies on the upstream and downstream components of the value chain that they want to control it. So they actually start bridging out of what the core practices or the core business to own a broader agenda. And with digital, you can do it. You can actively interact more systemically that installs triggering, well, maybe I have a different product offering. Maybe I can own this. Could I monetize the information I had at my disposal today in a completely new line. And that really what gets truly innovative and starts creating a revenue increase as opposed as the cost saving. And that's what they're really going after. It's how do I, >>The vertical integration is not new. The plenty of ended up Koch industries, Tyson foods, but now it's digital. So presumably you can do it faster with greater greater scale >>Without a doubt. And you don't have to move your big ERP and things like that. Cause that's the only way it takes five years to move my technology backbone with digital. I can do the interaction tomorrow and we can build up enough to be able to sustain that in the short term. >>Right. And speaking of speed, unfortunately, guys, we are out of time, but thank you. Fantastic conversation automation as a board imperative guys, that's been great James or >>Thank you for your time. Thank you so much >>For Dave a long day. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the queue. We are live in Las Vegas at the Bellagio at UI path forward for stick around Dave and I will be right back. Okay.

from the cube studios in palo alto in boston bringing you data-driven insights from the cube and etr this is breaking analysis with dave vellante cios in the most recent september etr spending survey tell us that they expect a slight sequential improvement in q4 spending relative to q3 but still down four percent from q4 2019 so this picture is still not pretty but it's not bleak either to whit firms are adjusting to the new abnormal and are taking positive actions that can be described as a slow thawing of the deep freeze hello everyone this is dave vellante and welcome to this week's wikibon cube insights powered by etr in this breaking analysis we're going to review fresh survey data from etr and provide our outlook for both q4 of 2020 and into 2021. now we're still holding at our four to five percent decline in tech spending for 2020 but we do see light at the end of the tunnel with some cautions specifically more than a thousand cios and it buyers have we've surveyed expect tech spending to show a slight upward trend of roughly two percent in 2021. this is off of a q4 decline of 4 relative to q4 2019 but i would put it this way a slightly less worse decline sequentially from q3 last quarter we saw a 5 decline in spending okay so generally more of the same but things seem to be improving again with caveats now in particular we'll show data that suggests technology project freezes are slowly coming back and we see remote workers returning at a fairly significant rate however executives expect nearly double the percentage of employees working remotely in the midterm and even long term than they did pre-covert that suggests that the work from home trend is not cyclical but showing signs of permanence and why not cios report that on balance productivity has been maintained or even improved during covit now of course this all has to be framed in the context of the unknowns like the fall and even winter surge what about fiscal policy there's uncertainty in the election social unrest all right so let's dig into some of the specifics of the etr data now i mentioned uh the number of respondents at over a thousand i have to say this was predominantly a us-based survey so it's it's 80 sort of bias to the u.s and but it's also weighted to the big spenders in larger organizations with a nice representation across industries so it's good data here now you can see here the slow progression of improvement relative to q3 which as i said was down five percent year-on-year with the four percent decline expected in q4 now etr is calling for a roughly four percent decline for the year you know i've been consistently in the four to five percent decline range and agree with that outlook and you can see cios are planning for a two percent uptick in 2021 as we said at the open now in our view this represents some prudent caution and i think there's probably some upside but it's a good planning assumption for the market overall in my view now let's look at some of the actions that organizations are taking and how that's changed over time you can see here that organizations they're slowly releasing that grip on tech spending overall you know still no material change in employees working from home or traveling we can see that hiring freezes are down that's that's positive in the green as our new i.t deployment freezes and a slight uptick in acceleration of new deployments now as well you see fewer companies are planning layoffs and while small the percent of companies adding head count has doubled from last quarter's you know minimal number all right so this is based on survey data at the end of the summer so it reflects that end of summer sentiment so we got to be a little bit cautious here and i think cios are you know by nature cautious on their projections of two percent up in 2021. now importantly remember this does not get us back to 20 20 19 spending levels so we may be seeing a kind of a long slow climb out of this you know tepid market maybe 2022 gets back over 2019 before we start to see sustained growth again and remember these recoveries are rarely smooth they're not straight lines so you got to expect some choppiness with you know some pockets of opportunity which we'll discuss here in this slide we're showing the top areas that respondents cited as spending priorities for q4 and into 2021 so the chart shows the ratings based on a seven-point scale and these are the top spending initiatives heading into the year end now as we've been saying for the better part of a decade cyber security is a do-over and i've joked you know if it ain't broke don't fix it well coven broke everything and cyber is an area that's seeing long-term change in my opinion endpoint security identity access management cloud security security as a service these are all trends that we're seeing as really major waves as a result of covid now it's coming at the expense of large install bases of things like traditional hardware-based firewalls and we've talked about this a lot in previous segments cloud migration is interesting and i really think it needs some interpretation i mean nobody likes to do migrations so i would suggest this includes things like i have a bunch of people answering phones and offices or i had and then overnight boom the offices are closed so i needed a cloud-based solution i didn't just lift and ship my shift my entire phone routing system you know from the office into the cloud but i probably pivoted to a cloud solution to support those work from home employees now my guess is i think that would be included in these responses i mean i do know an example of an insurance company that did migrate its claims application to the cloud during coven but this was something that they were you know planning to do pre-covered and i guess the point here is twofold again like i said migrations are hairy nobody wants to do them and i think this category really means i'm increasing my use of the cloud so i'm kind of migrating my my operations over time to the cloud all right look at collaboration no shocker here we've pounded you know zoom and webex to death analytics is really interesting we have talked extensively uh and have been covering snowflake and we pointed out that there's a new workload that has emerged in the cloud it's not just snowflake you know there are others aws redshift google with bigquery and and others but snowflake is the off the charts you know hot ipo and so we we talk a lot about it but it relates to this easy setup and access to a data layer with having you know requisite security and governance and this market is exploding adding ai on top and really doing this in the cloud so you can scale it up or down and really only pay for what you need that's a real benefit to people compare that to the traditional edw snake swallowing a basketball i got to get every new intel chip you're not dialing up down down you're over provisioning and half the time you're not using you know half most of the time you're not utilizing what you've paid for all right look at networking you know traffic patterns changed overnight with covet ddos attacks are up 25 to 40 percent uh since coven cyber attacks overall are up 400 percent this year so these all have impacts on the network machine learning and ai i talked about a little bit earlier about that but organizations are realizing that infusing ai into the application portfolio it's becoming really an imperative much more important as the automation mandate that we've talked about becomes more acute people you can't scale humans at this at the pace of technology so automation becomes much more important that of course leads us to rpa now you might think rpa should be a higher priority but i think what's happening here is i t organizations they were scrambling to plug holes in the dike rpa is somewhat more strategic and planful our data suggests that rpa remains one of the most elevated spending categories in terms of net score etr's measure of spending momentum so this means way more people are spending more than spending less in the rpa category so it really has a lot of legs in fact with the exception of container orchestration i think rpa is a sector that has the highest net score i think you'll see that in the upcoming surveys it's as high or even higher than ai i think it's higher than cloud it's just that it remember this is an it survey and a lot of the rpa stuff is going on at the business level but it had to keep the ship afloat when coveted hit which somewhat shifted priorities but but rpa remains strong now let's go back uh to the work from home trend for a moment i know it's been been played out and kind of beat on really heavily covered but i got to tell you etr was the very first on this trend it was way back in march and the data here is instructive it shows that the percentage of employees working from home prior to cor covid currently working from home the percent expected in six months and then those expected essentially permanently and this is primarily work from home versus yeah i don't work a day or two per week it's really the the five day a week i i work remotely as you can see only 16 percent of employees were working from home pre pandemic whereas more than 70 percent are at home today and cios they actually see a meaningful decline in that number over the next six months you know we'll see based on how covid comes back and you know this fall and winter surge and how will that will affect these plans but look what it does long term it settles in at like 34 percent that's double pre-covet so really a meaningful and permanent impact is expected from the isolation economy that we're in today and again why not look at this data it shows the distribution of productivity improvements so that while 23 of respondents said work from home productivity impacts were neutral nearly half i think it was 48 if you add up those bars on the right nearly half are seeing productivity improvements well less than 30 percent see a decline in productivity and you can see the etr quants they peg the average gain at between three and five percent that's pretty significant now of course not everyone can work from home if you're working at a restaurant you really you know unless you're in finance you really can't work from home but we're seeing in this digital economy with cloud and other technologies that we actually can work from pretty much anywhere in the world and many employees are going to look at work from home options as a benefit you know it was just a couple years ago remember that we were talking about companies like ibm and yahoo who mandated coming into the office i mean that was like 2017 2018 time frame well that trend is over now let me give you a quick preview of some of the other things that we're seeing and what the etr data shows now let me also say i'm just scratching the surface here etr has deep deep data cuts they have the sas platform allows you to look at the data all different ways and if you're not working with them you should be because the data gets updated so frequently every quarter there's new data there's drill down surveys and it's forward-looking so you know a lot of the survey data or a lot of the data that we use market share data and other data are sort of looking back you know you use your sales data your sales forecast that's obviously forward-looking but but the etr survey data can actually give an observation space outside of your sales force and no i'm not getting paid by etr but but it's been such a valuable resource i want to make it available and make the community aware of it all right so let's do a little speed round on on some of the the vendors of interest that we've talked about in the last several segments last couple years actually many years decade anyway start with aws aws continues to be strong but they they have less momentum than microsoft this is sort of a recurring pattern here but aws churn is low low low not a lot of people leaving the aws platform despite what we hear about this repatriation trend data warehousing is a little bit soft whereas we see snowflake very very strong but aws share is really strong inside of large companies so cloud and teams and security are strong from microsoft whereas data warehouse and ai aren't as robust as we've seen before but but microsoft azure cloud continues to see a little bit more momentum than aws so we'll watch that next quarter for aws earnings call now google has good momentum and they're steady especially in cloud database ai and analytics we've talked a lot about how google's behind the big two but nonetheless they're showing good good momentum servicenow very low churn but they're kind of hitting the law of large numbers still super strong in large accounts but not the same red hot hat red hot momentum as we've seen in the past octa is showing continued momentum they're holding you know close to number one or that top spot in security that we talked about last time no surprise given the increased importance of identity access management that we've been talking about so much crowdstrike last survey in july they showed some softness despite a good quarter and and we we're seeing continued to sell it to deceleration in the survey now that's from extremely elevated levels but it's significantly down from where crowdstrike was at the height of the lockdown i mean we like the sector of endpoint security and crowdstrike is definitely a leader there and you know well-managed company company but you know maybe they got hit with uh with you know a quick covet injection with with a step up function that's maybe moderating somewhat you know maybe there's some competition you know vmware freezing the market with carbon black i i really don't see that i think it's it's it's you know maybe there's some survey data isn't reflective of of what what crowdstrike is seeing we're going to see in the upcoming earnings release but it's something that we're watching very closely you know two survey snapshots with crowdstrike being a little bit softer it doesn't make a sustained trend but we would have liked to seen you know a little bit stronger this this quarter the data's still coming in so we'll see sale point is one we focused on recently and we see very little negative in their numbers so they're holding solid z scalar showing pretty strong momentum and while there was some concern last survey within large organizations it seemed that might have been a survey anomaly because z scalar they had a strong quarter a good outlook and we're seeing a strong recovery in the most recent data so it also looks like z z scaler is pressuring some of palo alto network's dominance and momentum heading into the quarter so we'll pay close attention to that we've said we like palo alto networks but they're so big uh they've got some exposures but they can offset those you know and they're doing a better job in cloud with their pricing models and sort of leaning into some of the the market waves uh sale point appears to be holding serve you know heading into the fourth quarter snowflake i mean what can we say it continues to show some of the strongest spending momentum going into q4 and into 2021 no signs of slowing down they're going to have their first earnings reports coming up you know in a few months so i i got to believe they got it together and and they're going to be strong reports uipath and momentum is is slowing down a bit but existing customers keep spending with ui path and there's very few defections so it looks like their land and expand is working pretty well automation anywhere continues to be strong despite comments about the sector earlier which showed you know maybe it wasn't as high a priority some other sectors but as i said you know it's still really really strong strong in terms of momentum and automation anywhere in uipath they continue to battle it out for the the top spot within the data set within the automation data set well i should say within rpa i mean companies like pega systems have a broader automation agenda and we really like their strategy and their execution databricks you know hot company once a hot company and still hot but we're seeing a little bit of a deceleration in the survey even though new customer acquisition is quite strong put it this way databricks is strong but not the off the chart outperformer that it used to be this is how etr frame that their analysis so i want to obviously credit that to them datadog showing the most strength in the application performance management or monitoring sector whichever you prefer but generally the the net scores in that sector as we talked about last week they're not great as a sector when you compare it to other leading sectors like cloud or automation rpa as an example container orchestration you know apm is kind of you know significantly lower it's not it's not as low as some of the on-prem on-prem infrastructure or some of the on-prem software but you know given datadog's high valuation it's somewhat of a concern so keep an eye on that mongodb you know they got virtually no customer churn but they're losing some momentum in terms of net score in the survey which is something we're keeping an eye on and a big downtick in in large organization acquisitions within the data so in other words they had a lot of new acquisitions within large companies but that's down now again that could be anomalies in the data i don't want to you know go to the bank on that necessarily but that's something to watch zoom they keep growing but etr data cites a churn of actually up to seven percent due to some security concerns so that was widely reported in the press and somewhere slower velocity for zoom overall due to possible competition from microsoft teams but i tell you it has an amazing stat that etr threw out pre-cove at zoom penetration in the education vertical was 15 today it's over 80 percent wowza cisco cisco's core is weak as we've said you've seen that in their earnings numbers it's it's there's softness there but security meraki those are two areas that remain strong same kind of similar story to last quarter survey pure storage you know they're the the high flyer they're like the one-eyed man in the land of the the storage blind so storage you know not a great market we've talked about that we've seen some softness in the the data set from uh in pure storage and really often sympathy with the generally back burner storage market you know again they they still outperforming their peers but we've seen slower growth rates there in the in in the survey and that's been reflected in their earnings uh so we've been talking about that for a while really keeping an eye on on on pure they made some acquisitions trying to expand their market enough said about that rubric rubric's interesting they kind of were off the charts in a couple surveys ago and they really come off of those highs you know anecdotally we're hearing some concerns in in the market it's hard to tell the private company cohesity has overtaken rubric and spending momentum now for the second quarter in a row you know they're still not as prevalent in the data set we'd like to see more ends from cohesity remember this is sort of a random sample across multiple industries we let the or etr lets the the respondents tell them what they're buying and what they're spending on you know but because cohesity has the highest net score relative to to compares like rubric like veeam you know i even threw in when i looked at nutanix pure dell emcs vxrail those are not direct competitors but they're you know kind of quasi compares if you will new relic they're showing some concerning trends on churn and the company is way off its 2018 momentum highs in the survey and we talked about this last week some of the challenges new relic is facing but we like their tech the nrdb is purpose-built for monitoring and performance management and we feel like you know they can retain their leadership if they can can pull it together we talked about elliott management being in there so that's something that we're watching red hat is showing strength in open shift really really strong ibm you know services exposure uh it's it's not the greatest business in the world right now at the same time there's there's crosswinds there at the same time people you know need some services and they need some help there but the certainly the outsourcing business so there's you know countervailing you know crosswinds uh within ibm but openshift bright spot i i think you know when i look at at the the red hat acquisition yeah 34 billion but but it's it's pretty obvious why ibm made that move um but anyway ibm's core business continues to be under under pressure that's why red hat is such an important component which brings me to vmware vmware has been an execution machine they had vmworld this past week uh we talked last month about the strength of vmware cloud on aws and it's still strong and and vmware cloud portfolio with vmware cloud foundation and other offerings but other than tanzu vmware is in this october survey of the first first look shows some deceleration really across the board you know one potential saving grace etr shared with me is that the fortune 500 spending for vmware is stronger so maybe on a spend basis when i say stronger stronger stronger than the mean so maybe on a spend basis vmware is okay but there seems to be some potential exposure there you know we won't know for sure until late next year uh how the dell reshuffle is going to affect them but it's going to be interesting to see how dell restructures vmware's balance sheet to get its own house in order and remember dell wants to get to investment grade for its own balance sheet yet at the same time it wants to keep vmware at investment grade but the interesting thing to watch is what impact that's going to have on vmware's ability to fund its future and we're not going to know that for a long long time but you know we'll keep an eye on on those developments now dell for its part showing strength and work from home and also strengthen giant public and privates which is a bellwether in the etr data set uh you know these are huge private companies for example uh koch industries would be one you know massive private companies mars would be another example not necessarily that they're the ones responding although my guess is they are it's it's anonymous but actually etr actually knows and they can identify who those bell weathers are and it's been a it's been a predictor of performance for the last you know better part of a decade so we'll see vxrail is strong um you know servers and storage they're they're still muted relative to last year but not really down from july so you know holding on dell holding on to it to to a tepid spending outlook they got such huge exposure on-prem you know so on balance i wouldn't expect you know a barn burner out of dell you know but they got a big portfolio and they've got a lot of a lot of options there and remember they still have the the still have they have a pc uh business unlike hpe which i'll talk about in in in a moment talk about now aruba is the bright spot for hpe but servers and storage those seem to be off you know similar to dell uh but but but maybe even down further i think you know dell is kind of holding relative to last quarter survey you know down from earlier this year and certainly down from from last year uh but hpe seems to be on a steeper downward trajectory uh in storage and service from the survey you know we'll see again you know one one snapshot quarter this is not a trend to make uh but again storage looks particularly soft which is a bit of a concern and we saw that you know in hpe's numbers you know last quarter um customer acquisition is strong for nutanix but overall spending is decelerating versus a year ago levels uh we know about the 750 million dollar injection uh from from bain capital basically you know in talking to bain what essentially they're doing is they they're betting on upside in the hyper-converged marketplace it's true that from a penetration standpoint there's a long long way to go and it's also true that nutanix is shifting from a you know perpetual model you know boom by the the capex to a in an annual occurring revenue model and they kind of need a bridge of cash to sort of soften that blow we've seen companies like tableau make that transition adobe successfully made that transition splunk is in that transition now and it's you know kind of funky for them but at any rate you know within that infrastructure software and virtualization sectors you know nutanix is showing some softness but in things like storage actually nutanix looking pretty strong very strong actually so again this theme of of these crosswinds uh supporting some companies whereas they're exposed in other areas you certainly see that with large companies and and nutanix looks like it's got some momentum in some areas and you know challenges in in others okay so that's just a quick speed dating round with some of the vendor previews for the upcoming survey so i just want to summarize now and we'll wrap so we see overall tech spending off four to five percent in 2020 with a slightly less bad slightly less bad q4 sequentially relative to q3 all this is relative to last year so we see continued headwinds coming into 2021 expect low single-digit spending growth next year let's call it two percent and there are some clear pockets of growth taking advantage of what we see is a more secular work from home trend particularly in security although we're watching some of the leaders shift positions cloud despite the commentary earlier remains very very strong aws azure google red hat open shift serverless kubernetes analytic cloud databases all very very strong automation also stands out as as a a priority in what we think is the coming decade with an automation mandate and some of the themes we've talked about for a long time particularly the impact of cloud relative to on-prem you know we don't see this so-called repatriation as much of a trend as it is a bunch of fun from on-prem vendors that don't own a public cloud so just you just don't see it i mean i'm sure there are examples of oh we did something in the cloud we lifted and shifted it didn't work out we didn't change our operating model okay but the the number of successes in cloud is like many orders of magnitude you know greater than the numbers of failures on the plus side however the for the on-prem guys the hybrid and multi-cloud spaces are increasingly becoming strategic for customers so that's something that i've said for a long time particularly with multi-cloud we've kind of been waiting it's been a lot of vendor power points but that really we talked to customers now they're hedging their bets in cloud they're they're putting horses for courses in terms of workloads they're they're they're not betting their business necessarily on a single cloud and as a result they need security and governance and performance and management across clouds that's consistent so that's actually a a really reasonable and significant opportunity for a lot of the on-prem vendors and as we've said before they're probably not necessarily going to trust the cloud players the public cloud players to deliver that they're going to want somebody that's cloud agnostic okay that's it for this week remember all these episodes are available as podcasts wherever you listen so please subscribe i publish weekly on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com and don't forget to check out etr.plus for all the survey action and the analytics these guys are amazing i always appreciate the comments on my linkedin posts thank you very much you can dm me at d vallante or email me at david.volante at siliconangle.com and this is dave vellante thanks for watching this episode of cube insights powered by etr be well and we'll see you next time you

>> Live from Washington, D.C., it's theCUBE! Covering Inforum D.C. 2018. Brought to you by Infor. >> Good afternoon, and welcome back to the Walter Washington Convention Center, we're at Inforum 2018, here live on theCUBE, John Walls with Dave Vellante, and it's a pleasure now to welcome the CEO of Infor, Charles Phillips with us. Charles, good to see ya! >> Good to see you guys again, another year. It's great, it's great. >> Yeah, I tell ya, you are a man of demand aren't you? I mean, tell me about the week so far for you, how it's gone, and just your overall thoughts about the show? >> Yeah, it's been a fun Inforum for 2018 here. Great attendance, and a lot of energy level, and the common feedback we get is you guys just keep innovating and bringing new things, this is great, and that's why they come, they want to see what we're working on and kind of dream the art of the possible. We know what you, what we think you get a couple years ago, but if we don't have someone pushing us and painting a picture of what we could be doing, and we just think we might be missing it, so we want to hear it first hand. So that's what the conference is about, and hopefully they got that. >> Well, certainly thematically, human potential, you talk about that, you see that on the keynote stage, that's been a very consistent theme with our guests here, we've heard that a lot, you hear it down on the show floor. Talk about the theme if you would, a little bit, in terms of it's development, where that came from, and in how you think that's being expressed here this week. >> Well, we're one of the few companies that build mission critical operational systems, be it manufacturing or hospital operations, but we're also in HCM in a big way. And so we were talking to kind of both sides of the house, for some applications you're talking to the line of business manager, but for HCM you're talking to the CHRO, and rarely were those two people talking, and we saw obvious synergies. Don't you want to know how your people are doing, how to allocate people, and how they're performing, how they're changing the outcomes on a manufacturing floor or in a hospital, and a lot of HR directors weren't thinking like that because they think of HR, and they have their own world, they go to HR conferences and that's it. And the manufacturing guys are the same thing, and so we're trying to bring these two worlds together and say "Actually, you're in the same business, it's the same goals, and you actually could help each other a lot." And so by focusing on putting the employee at the center of all these applications and mapping all these operational processes to HR data, it's a different way of thinking about the role of HR. They can actually help drive the business, not just be an administrative function, and so it's resonating with a lot of the CHROs we met with, 'cause they want a seat at the table, they want to be more strategic, and this is a way for them to do that and at the same time the operational people want to know how their people are doing, want to develop talent, and want to know what are the tools out there I could be doing differently, and how am I doing, and which employees are working the best So, I think we can bring both sides together. >> So I first met Infor through AWS, at re:Invent, Pam Murphy came on, and we were like Infor? Back then it was like 2012, 2013 was kind of Infor who? And then we were invited to New Orleans, and then started to learn more about your micro-vertical strategy and a little bit about the platform, it was somewhat opaque to me. And now, fast forward last year and this year it's really starting to come in to view. The OS, the platform vision, the Birst acquisition, and of course Coleman, and I'm a sucker for platform plays especially when there's real R&D behind it that's actually having a business impact. So I wonder if you could talk about that piece of the strategy, I love the stack, was that sort of always your vision and now you're getting aggressive in it, did it sort of come together serendipitously, how'd we get here? >> Having our own stack and a platform was always the vision, but it's a lot harder to do than it sounds like, and it takes time. And so, when we arrived almost eight years ago, there were different applications, all had their own separate stacks and would say "This is not going to work." So, we need, just to be able to scale, to be able to serve multiple industries with different products, we can't have every development organization building their stack as well. So we set about taking that away from the development groups we're going to do this as a shared service, but it takes time, and as we build it you will adopt components of it. So what's changed is we've built out the entire stack, so, starting with ION, with integration, then we added document management, workflow, analytics, now AI and a lot of other services, Mongoose, platform as a service, on and on and on, in collaboration, those things took time, they're all on a single platform, federated security, single siloed across it all, and now it makes the developers job who's developing apps so much simpler. So they have Infor OS for the immediate platform, for cloud services they have AWS, I don't have to worry about any of those things anymore, just go and develop industry functionality. So, it's come together nicely, but the fact that we had the time to do it and the money to do it, and we weren't public, and we told our investors "This is the only way this is going to scale, this is the future, and it'll pay out later, you just got to trust us." And now that we've gotten there, they're seeing the synergy and go "Okay, now we see why you did that." >> So, Michael Dell's been on theCUBE many times, he used to talk about the 90 day shot clock, we obviously see what he's done in terms of transforming; but I want to talk about your business a little bit, because you've had that patient capital, I mean you're a quasi-public company in the sense that you do report so we can see the numbers on the income statement, but the income statement doesn't really tell the whole story It's about three billion in revenue, several hundred billion dollars on the balance sheet, but if you look at the SaaS component of it it looks rather small, maybe about 25% of the business, but from a booking standpoint I'm sure it's much, much larger than that. So how should we interpret the income statement in terms of the momentum in your business, where is all the action? >> So as a percentage of our sales, it's the highest of any of our competitors, so, about 70% of our new sales are on SaaS, we have about a $700 million SaaS business, so it's growing. There's nothing we can do about the maintenance piece of it, if it's related to perpetual, so if you take that out, it's a big percentage of our business. And over time the maintenance will turn into SaaS, so that's one of our big opportunities to look at that maintenance space and say "Move those over to cloud customers." and that's usually a financially lucrative thing for us to do, because we do even more for them, because they usually add on four or five other products when they move, they replace these third party products and so we get a bigger suite of products if they decide to move to the cloud. So that's part of the strategy, that's what UpgradeX is, let's move you from on-premise, so that maintenance revenue will turn into SaaS revenue, but bigger SaaS revenue over time. >> So let me make sure I understand, so it's not the classic case where you see a lot of software companies that are going from a perpetual model to a ratable model, you're goin' from a maintenance model which is ratable to a ratable model which is SaaS, but there's cohorts sales which increase the top line, is that correct? >> Exactly. So usually, because of what we do, we're doing something mission critical. So if you're going to take that, then you should do ACM financials, all the other things around it. So why would I move to core and leave the edge on-premise? So, almost by definition we have to do the whole suite. So when we do that it expands the deal, 'cause on-premise we may have been one vendor with 30 other ones existing, but the whole reason they want to get out of all of that is to move to the cloud and simplify. So we can't take all that with us, so we have to have the full suites, we've built that now. So now we can move them, but, it expands the size of the deal because we're replacing all these other products. >> Okay, and then some of the stats, just correct me if I don't get this right. Your SaaS business grown 50% faster than Oracle's, growing at a rate, I'd say 2X SAP's and a rate comparable to Workday, are those correct figures? >> Those are correct, and profitable. >> Oh, and profitable. >> Throw that in. (all laugh) >> Right, so okay. And then last year Koch Industries invested, so you kind of recap the company, you've made a big deal about that. One of the things that we've noted is you're seeing a tailwind there in terms of guys like Accenture and Capgemini, we've asked them "Do you guys service Koch Industries?" they said "Yep!" they helped us see the opportunity, and they said "Look, look for something substantive, we're not going to try to force you to do something, but we want you to take a look." So that's been helpful. Talk about that and maybe other things Koch has brought to the table? >> It's a, the relationship with the integrators is evolving, it probably was not a plus for us in the first four, five years. More recent years we've won enough deals where they had to say "Okay, we can't keep losin' these deals." And where they wanted to get engaged. Koch helped, because they had relationships and they wanted to run that business, that's why they're implementing our products globally, and so, they're a large customer for all of these guys, and one of the largest for Deloitte for instance, but what's really more-- that helped, but it was more the, what was happening in the market, the fact that we're in a Liberty Steel and replace SAP, or that we're in a Travis Perkins interview with SAP and Microsoft, so, if you're on the wrong side of those deals enough times your manager starts to ask you what's goin' on, and you got all these people on the bench here, okay, we train them for Infor if they're winning in that region, or in that industry. So, we just had to earn our way into it, our initial strategy was not one that, at least on the surface, looked like it was integrator-friendly because we were trying to take all those mods they like to do and put 'em in the product, and that's the whole thesis, let's the take the vertical industry features and let's put it in there once, I don't want everybody customizing my apps, we do that. And so now they've had to move up, okay we can do other things, configuration, changed management, there's AI, there's other things you can do, but you're not going to do that. So now that they've accepted that, there's a basis for us to work together, and, it just had to take time to get there. >> What can you tell us about where you want to go with this? I mean you've presided over public companies before, you know that business well, you were a rockstar analyst, is there an advantage to being a public company, is that something that you eventually want to do? >> I would say there are pluses and minuses, our board is evaluating that, that's going to be their call. The upside is, it would solve probably our biggest challenge which is brand recognition, almost instantly, because would be a top 10 tech IPO. It makes it a little easier to hire people because they can see public currency, they can value more quickly, and it gives you some acquisition currency; so those are the positives. But then you're on the 90 day cycle, and we're kind of on that anyway, 'cause we report publicly and we have publicly traded bonds. So for us it's, in some sense we have the worst of all worlds, right? We have the discipline of being a public company, and the scrutiny, without the capital, (laughs) and the branding, so. I think that's what everybody's evaluating. Every bank on Wall Street's visiting us telling us to go now, the window's great, you have the numbers. >> Oh, of course. (Dave and John laugh) >> And so, so we could do it, I just don't know what their decision's going to be. The advantages to being private as well, you have a little more flexibility obviously, and, we don't need the capital, we have plenty of capital coming from Koch and others who want to invest. >> Well, the flip side of that too, is you get to write your own narrative, right? >> Yeah. >> I mean, we're talkin' about the nuances of the income statement, the Street is obviously right now hooked on growth heroin, and if you got the transition in the base it doesn't become a tailwind, so, no rush from that standpoint. I want to pivot to the theme of this event, which is the human potential. My understanding is you sort of were instrumental in coming up with that. HCM this year got a big play on stage, where's that come from? >> Yeah, just as I talk to CEOs who are struggling to find talent, like I mentioned on stage 6.7 million jobs that are unfulfilled. It's not like we don't have people here, we have people here with their own skills, so, you're not going to fill those jobs any other way, we're not doing immigration to any degree and scaling more, that's been shut down. We have an aging population with the baby boomers, so the most logical thing that you would do is train people who are already here who want to work. And, let's take people who have jobs that they probably aren't thrilled about, and give them different skills so they can fill these 6.7 million jobs. So to do that, you have to make these applications easier to use, and I felt like we're probably in the best position to do it because we actually know what they do for a living, 'cause we wrote all those last features in those industries, we understand what they do. And if you're just doin' HR replication or financials, you actually have no idea what they do. So, we had to learn those jobs to automate those jobs, so we can find ways to use our HCM applications to better train people, professional development, coaching, take all these HR skills, and put them as part of the applications in the context of while you're working. >> We had Anne Benedict on just a little bit ago talking about really a test case that you can be for yourself. So how are you putting these things to practice yourself, and how are you working out maybe some kinks before you take them out to somebody else? And so, you can leverage your own success for your own success, and also learn from mistakes too I would think. >> We do. So we have this program called Infor at Infor, where everything we do, we want it to be on an Infor product, which was not the case when we arrived. Like a lot of companies, a mish mash of different things, and so we've implemented not only HR Financials of course, Birst, but the big innovation has really been talent science, that every employee we hire has to take that test, and all the executives have taken it as well. And what we've discovered is, is that, when people hire and go against the talent science recommendation, 68% of the time they end up being wrong. So it's better at judging people than people are sometimes, and you can't use it exclusively, but it'll tell you these are the things you should look into, some questions you might want to ask, here's how they rate on certain skillsets, they're very well meshed for this job, they look like they'd see their best performance in this area, but ask these questions. And so people don't know how to interview and how to think about this, and so, having a guide to go into an interview is actually pretty helpful. We hire much better people now by using that. >> So it's like StrengthsFinder in a way? >> No, it's different from that, this is AI, it's kind of Moneyball for business people. >> Well you're talking about that today, almost there. >> Yeah so it's 39 personality attributes, behavioral attributes we call them, so, empathy, resistance to authority, do you have the ambition or not, and depending on the job, you think all those things are good, depends on the job, so. For some jobs, it's actually better to have low ambition because, a lot of our customers who have low wage, fast food service jobs, people who have ambition are going to leave in four months, right? They're not going to stay, so, okay we're not going to be here long, at least know that going in, and know who wants to get promoted, and other people are fine with it. And so it depends on the mix of skills, just like I said, 39 attributes, and for that job role, you tune it to the people who like that job, they look like this. And, we've also found that it's 60% more diverse when you hire using science, because you don't know that when you're looking at the data, what they look like. >> It must've been super interesting getting those reports. You took it, obviously right? >> Yeah I took it. >> How'd you do? (laughs) >> Uhhh, nobody really likes their profile. (all laugh) >> I was going to say, I imagine I would be really defensive about this, oh I don't know. >> This can't be right! >> That is not me! I am not like that! (all laughing) >> Every person on our executive team said the same thing so. That's what it's for is to, you have certain perceptions even about yourself, and it calls it out, right? And there's no gaming the system because the questions have no right or wrong answer, it just puts you in scenarios that you answer what would you do, how do you feel about this? You're not clear what they're trying to get at, and you only have 27 minutes or 22 minutes to do the test. >> So you can't game it? >> You can't game it. >> Data doesn't lie! >> And we built the science, we know when someones trying to game it, they're taking to long on multiples, and changing their answers too much, so it's-- And we've now, I think we've tested some 200 million people over time, over years, so we have 20 years of data about people. >> That's, I mean, sounds unique, certainly unique of being infused into enterprise software, I've not seen anything like this from another enterprise software company. Can you confirm that, or? >> Yeah, so, we're the only ones that do this at scale, there's a few startups trying to do it, but they're trying to do it all facial recognition which is, we think pretty ridiculous, we're trying to get away from physical attributes not use that. So there's a company out there doing that, depending on your facial movements, but this is, we're eliciting responses about your personality in response to situations that we give you, and have a bunch of scientists that crunch the data and they basically shape it to the job role. And they test your best performance, and you get a DNA profile for your best performance for that job role, and then, that's what you're matching, and it's highly accurate. So we had a company on the Las Vegas Strip use it, because they have to hire in volume a lot, and essentially what they wanted to do was get better blackjack dealers. You need somebody that's good at math, good under pressure, not too emotive, don't give away anything; and so we did that, fine tuned the test, they call us back nine months later and said "We need you to change the test." We said "We did exactly what you wanted, what happened?" He said well, the winnings went up 30%, but everybody's leaving the hotel in 24 hours 'cause they lost all their money, so we don't need them to be that good. (all laugh) >> Dial it down a little bit. >> Which we did. And so that's part of the service is we fine tune it, you tell us what your goals are, and we'll tune to that. >> That's a great story. The other surprise for me this week has been the emphasis on robotic process automation, it's a space that we've kina looked at. And a lot of people are scared about software robots replacing humans, but if you talk to people who are using RPA, they love it. It's taking away these mundane tasks, I didn't realize that you guys had such capabilities there? >> Yeah, so we built that as part of a Coleman RPA platform, and not only can we automate and use RPA for ourselves, but we've built a whole development environment for our customers to build their own, 'cause we can't think of every process that they might want to automate, and we gave that platform to our partners as well, so. We don't want them doing database schema work anymore, and they used to get paid for that, there's other things you can do up the stack in AI, here's what we want you to focus on. So we had that meeting on Monday with the partners, and they all agreed that's what we're going to do. But there's tons of mundane things that people shouldn't be spending time on, and they can be much more productive, it makes them more loyal to the company, they're enjoying their job more, and they're thinking and innovating more. So I don't see it as replacing people, as making people better. And giving that engagement that I talked about during the keynote, they're engaged now, because they can do things that are more value adding now. >> So, back to New Orleans next year? That's the first Inforum that theCUBE was ever at was in N'Orleans, and, jazz, you like jazz, obviously, right? >> I like jazz, I met with the mayor when I was down there, Mitch Landrieu at the time, and he became a customer after that meeting, so the city of New Orleans runs on Infor software, it's another reason to go there; so thank you. >> You've get--nice. >> Yeah, thank you Mitch, so that worked well. And so as a thank you we're going back down there, they're a big customer now, and it's always fun, you know what I mean, you know. >> That's great. >> Just, before you go, you mention, I watched in the keynote this morning, Brooks Koepka. >> Yes. So you're working with him. I do a little bit of work on the golf side as well, so I was just intrigued because, he's not the, well he's not Tiger, right? >> Yeah. >> U.S. Open Champion, twice over. What was the attraction to him, and then can you play in the golf world a little bit, and with those brands, and is that an entry into that world? >> Well, we always like to bet on the scrappy guy, the next up and coming generation guy, and that's kind of our brand that's what we are, the Brooklyn Nets, someone who's not quite there yet, but they're moving up, that's kind of our scrappiness, that's why we like the whole Brooklyn image as well. And we started talkin' to him, like I said, before he won the U.S. Open, because he was ranking pretty high, moving up, but wasn't well known. A quite guy, very personable when you meet him, we thought he'd be good in front of clients, let's bet on his career, and we're going to work with him; and literally three weeks later he wins the U.S. Open, we go "Okay." (all laugh) >> Good grab! >> We'll take it! (laughs) So, we didn't even think it'd happen that quickly, and now he's a rockstar so. We were planning on hosting a CX event with him, and, we're not sure how many people are going to come, but when that happened, now, everybody RSVP'd right away of course. So now it's doing exactly what we wanted. >> Do you play golf? >> I don't play golf, I just started playing, 'cause we were doing these golf tournaments with customers over the last year, but I haven't had enough time to get out there yet. >> I'll bet Brooks would give you a lesson or two. (laughs) >> Yeah, he, a lot of people want to lesson from him. >> Charles thank you >> Alright, thank you guys, >> for the time, great show. >> Good to see ya again. See ya in New Orleans. >> Thank you, yeah. >> Congratulations. >> Alright guys, see ya. >> Wonderful week here in Washington, D.C. Back with more live on theCUBE here from D.C. right after this. (bubbly music)

live from Washington DC if the queue covering in forum DC 2018 brought to you by in for and welcome back here on the cube inform 2018 we're live in Washington DC continuing our day to coverage here on the cube along with de Ville on tape I'm John Wallace it's now a pleasure as well to welcome Eric Noren to the cube is the managing director of the CFO and enterprise value consulting at Accenture good morning Eric Harry a good morning to see you guys glad to have you with us we appreciate the time yeah let's talk about first the relationship assurance your and in for I know you've had you've been elsewhere right doing some other things with other folks and have kind of migrated back into the in four fold what led to that and what kind of successes are you having well so we're very excited about the partnership with with in for this is kind of like the really the second year for us right now as we go into the second year the first year was really driven from the partnership and the work that we do at Koch Industries and that that client experience kind of led us into a variety of different paths of partnership with with in for we've been doing work with with in for products for many years but we just our alliances just kind of blossomed in this past year into a variety of different areas focusing on the cloud suite financials focusing on GT Nexus in the supply chain space and now we're getting more and more excited about bursts and we're also getting very excited about the the whole the way the infor OS platform is just blossoming and and being tailored to a variety different industries and you've got you've got three offerings right if I remember right that you're taking out that you're taking to your client base as we speak once you give us a rundown of what you're up to well in our practice we have in our CFO and enterprise value practice we have an offering that's all around digital finance that's one of our biggest areas and that's really all just about the intersection of platform technology and how it enables the next generation of the finance function for the CFO so that we cloud that could also include things like you know automation and artificial intelligence applied to the finance function we see in our recent research here that CFO role as pivoting really not to be not really as focused on the books and records and being the controllers right but the CFOs role is now becoming more focused on being the digital steward the value architect of the enterprise and so the core of Finance is being digitized so that the transaction handling can be done more in an automated and efficient way and then freeing up the talent to focus on analytics and value-add and that really allows the CFO to focus more on driving insights into the business driving growth and what we call enterprise value so I totally agree the role of the CFO is transforming quite dramatically you know long gone in my view anyway are the days of CFO equals bean-counter this is a little there's a controller for that and no bean counter by the way is not a pejorative I run a business and I'm happy when people are counting those beans but it's not the CFO's role they're really transforming you see some Rockstar CFOs certainly in the tech industry like Scarpelli Tom sweet to just name a couple right reporting still matters compliance still matters but the CFO is taking a much more strategic role I'm really interested in this this this digitization of finance double-click on that yeah what does that specifically mean maybe you could give us some examples well I think that a couple things one is cloud right also I would say one thing is how transaction handling is moving from paper into all aspects of touchless transaction handling one is that harnessing the data to for transaction so it's touchless between vendors and customers and how that just flows through the system in a more digital way less paper more digital more touchless integration more automation right and then with that platform enabling things like artificial intelligence or machine learning being applied to these patterns of transaction handling so it can do the compliance checking in the reconciliation and so that the accountants right are enabling these algorithms to check things and don't have to do it themselves right but then there's also this whole context of of digital sort of process automation that that yields new ways of working you know new ways of looking at efficiency in terms of how and where the work is done right there was a view of like shared services and how we enable a digital operating model where there is there's work that can be done you know in with business unit intimacy and then there's work that can be done from other locations but then enabled by digital technology that's common and standardized right in a common platform that's also scalable and flexible and so putting all those things together is what we call digital finance I love this conversation and Accenture is like the best of the best you guys gets deep industry expertise and domain expertise I'm interested in Eric and in what the organizational structure looks like because when we talk about digital you're talking about data yeah and when you talking about data you're talking about monetization in some way shape or form not people I think got confused in the early days of big data so we can sell our data and more importantly as how data contributes to the monetization of the company sure and and how you can harness that and invest in that and that's really where the CFO comes in but he or she is not an expert at at digital not an X not a chief data officer or chief digital officer but they are an enabler they got to understand the strategy they got to pay for the strategy and maybe help course-correct it so what are you seeing is the right organizational regime to take advantage of digital well I think it first off it's integrated and it's and it's and it's focused on integration and collaboration for sure I think that there's a role where finance has the the business acumen and the insights to find out where the the story of enterprise value where it is now where it could be relative to the drivers of the business and but what's going on in the industry or the adjacent industries they can take advantage of so it's really all about you know a partnership between you know let's say finance right and let's say bringing in new talent and skills like data scientists and all those kind of you know digital skills and integrating it into finance so that it could be more accessible and then and then translate it into opportunities for for the business units so so a couple examples could be just one just getting a when we say monetization I think there's two things one is cost reduction where could you just use data to just understand the business in all aspects of where costs and how they're behaving and just being farm Warp know precise about where there are opportunities to reduce costs increase your bottom line right and that that in of those is value then there's the other side on you know revenue up left where there could be optimization of pricing optimization of your discounting strategy all those things that get into maintaining and improving your revenue without any additional cost of goods sold correct cost of sales right exactly that's a great example rights right your your operating structures it stays the same they're getting more leverage out of that that's writing and then there's other things where there's adjacent opportunities in to just gain market share right just to say well where there's opportunities with and really what we want to say is that by applying all this intelligence it's focused on really the theme is focused on customer experiences like what are the customer experiences that could be enabled with digital digital technologies in a seamless touchless way that are just differentiating the company you know in the market customers are and I think the world is changing its disrupting so the ways in which customers are interacting with businesses are expecting these kind of digital experiences very much inspired by a lot of the digital native companies they're out there in the market so the traditional companies that don't have those experience need to catch up and invest in these kind of customer experiences give me an example I mean how about expectations and and so let's say for example if you're a telco alright and you've got experiences that are about paying your bill or experiences have to do with services that you need by going to a call center all right now maybe you can have you know the traditional route of talking to someone or maybe there's a way you can go between the information and the channels that you have between your telephone your the mobile app between the website being able to talk to someone and having chat bots and the mix and how you coordinate all those different experiences so that that the customer can come in and get their questions answered in a very efficient way in some cases the the chat BOTS and the kind of sophistication that they can have to to to address the customers question right on the spot in a very timely way helps them just say I got my question solved and I'm happy with that experience right same thing with having information about I'm getting a you know service supply to my home how do I know that I'm having that same certainty of the service supply to the home much like the certainty that consumers are experiencing kind of like when they get an uber and they're like hey I know that the car is only five minutes away and it's coming and I have that certainty of an experience now that's being applied to other kind of customer experience it's a lot of situation I'm there at three things so first was saved money you know example RP a jerk something to help you drop money to the bottom line just cutting out mundane tasks yeah the top the top line operating leverage and that's around analytics may be optimizing pricing was the example you gave now the third I'll call Tam expansion which is which is really gaining share you leveraging your digital strategy to maybe try to be an incumbent disruptor just disrupt before you get disrupted now that last one has more risk associated with it because there are there are additional cost you've got other cost of goods sold you go to market cost but the reward could be you know huge these are the conversations is a great great proxy for the conversations that are going on with your clients yeah absolutely and I think that look you know there's the the market is going through changes constant disruption is coming in different forms whether it be through technology or other kind of industry integrations and you know they're different in the different we I specialize and more the communications me in technology industry alright and so those those are where I spend most of my time and and what's going on in communications right now and what's going on with communications and media is a quite interesting time on how content and distribution of content is changing and the way that the next generation of consumers are going to think about you know consuming media and how advertising is distributed we're going through a tremendous transformation in that space and all the companies are kind of racing to to be have that advantage of how they connect with the consumers at scale in a seamless connected way so that they have that that that ability to continue to serve them in new and innovative ways so let's talk about them so you said comms and media are we talking telecoms yeah okay and then tech industry is in IT technical yeah I mean tech suppliers tech suppliers yes girls just go and and companies like novo those kind of companies that are in that those guys are pretty forward-thinking in terms of technology adoption oh absolutely okay the telco business is really interesting right now though absolutely hardened infrastructures they get over the top suppliers coming in the cost per per bit is going down but they can't charge more you know this you know very well yeah they're going through some really radical transformation at the same time they have a huge opportunity with content yes you see and people make some moves yes absolutely about what's going on in that business a little bit more well you know there was the recent you know Comcast just an acquisition of sky is quite Norway we got 18 t going through the Time Warner thing and then you have so that's a Content play that I think is just frees up some opportunities for for companies like Comcast and AT&T you know to start really servicing their customers and a new profound way you know to be able to say it could be you know content that is suited to different demographics and to get those consumers at scale not only to keep them you know comfortable with the and and very delighted if you will with the kind of wireless service and flexibility they have with that but then to be able to see all the range of content that it could be consuming all of which is coming back to those companies as data as the consumers are watching all this content and having better control visibility of all the different patterns that they're seeing in the use of this content so they can then in turn shape different kinds of programming and shape different kinds of advertising programs that are tailored to those demographics and there's an it there's an underlying infrastructure transformation that's going on so it's something as basic as you know things like network function virtualization not to get too geeky out here but I'm trying to to make their their infrastructure more agile so they can compete with the OTT suppliers and they're trying to vertically integrate as content yes Rogers absolutely in this whole next wave of 5g is is a huge thing that's gonna come to us and that's that's a big disruption that's just starting and will happen in the next three to five years that will level be coming due so everybody's trying to get digital right yeah yeah yo that you talk to but do you do you when you go beneath that to the organization it's harder to get people you know to actually move do you get do you see a sense of complacency of people saying well you know not we're doing pretty well in our industry or I'll be retired before this all happens I mean how do you compel well I think that I mean that does exist in certain industries and certain types of companies you know I think that's the whole point about talent right and I think when we come back and look at talent is really when we think about change not only is the technology changing but the the talent that's available not only in the finance function but in all parts of an enterprise the the the the next generation of folks that are going into the workforce are just coming from a different place in terms of how they use technology in their lifestyle but how they want to apply to their as a customer but then how they want to do it as an employee and so for when we have that conversation about well what is the future going to look like a lot of it will come down to well what does digital mean as an experience for your consumer and your customer but also what does it mean for the talent and and we believe that look talent is a critical asset in every and every company it's the biggest asset that we have in a center right so how do we inspire and have folks have been enabled to use digital technologies to have that entrepreneurial you know sort of platform to use these digitally native tools that's really the key and I think that any kind of you know CFO that's like thinking about betting on the future that talent is very much a part of that stories it's definitely about technology is very important it's an enabler it's a platform however it's the talent that will be using the platform to take those info sites and drive growth in the wild card is data all right that's the new oh yeah absolutely I mean when a variable in the equation yeah this data putting data at the sort of score of your organization and having the talent that knows how they'll exploit your day that's right and I think it's like when I think about talent there's I mean there's different specializations right but I think the talent is really about the collaboration you see people who are able to work with other different cross functions and say well how do we how do we build and find this together how do we discover where the opportunity the insight is together right and you know there's you know there's differences between you know stuff which I said like the you know things that are known and we just optimized what we have and then there's going into the new areas right that I haven't been discovered yet and I think that the thing about the the the talent that's curious you know we like the way to think about like okay curious about what could be or what's out there and using data not as a as a hurdle but harnessing the power of data to go into these areas and start exploring and using all those different tools to explore where could we go and one of the things it's doing is it's not about you know we talked about analytics and some of the tools that are out there it's not about necessarily precision in this moment it's about direction of where you can go and exploring and continuing to find the facts that support investment it's your point I mean the the tools and the tech aren't the hard part it's the it's the unknown it's the people right you know the processes around that right getting everybody on the same page to collaborate it's like old dogs new tricks I mean I mean so yeah never simplifying but you you are trying to bring new tricks yeah to folks and there's a generational awareness that you're the difference between the people they have coming up and where they said that's right and we think that look you know by bringing the fresh new talent in to the organization that and of itself has has the team operating and working differently because not only they have new tools but there's new a new way of talent being integrated you know new talent and experienced talent you know seeing how these things come together to wither with a mandate again on superior business outcomes like let's go after these prizes it's worth it to get this right to make these investments because if we get it right there's an opportunity to grow revenue to grow to grow profitably to gain market share right so there's a there's a it's hard okay there's culture change and change this is normal okay digital transformation is not an easy thing to do all companies go through you know different things but it's worth it in the end yeah and it enforced talked a lot at this show about new new ways to work what I call new ways to and I think there's some substance there yeah absolutely Eric thank you and for the record we are always open to new tricks we do like new tricks okay good it'd be good to have you with us okay my pleasure guys Norman ceinture back with more on the key we're live here in Washington DC [Music]

>> Live, from Washington D., it's the Cube. Covering Inforum DC 2018. Brought to you by Infor. >> And welcome back to Inforum '18. We're live here in Washington DC as Inforum has brought its show to our nation's capital. I'm John Walls along with Dave Vellante. It's now a pleasure to welcome Vice President of corporate communications Dan Barnhardt. >> Thank you. >> Hey Dan, good morning to you. >> Good morning to you. Good to see you again. >> We were kidding before we got started about why you're here in Washington. We think it's for the weather, right, because it's so nice. >> It's gorgeous. >> But there is a reason. I mean, you've released a federal product today, have an announcement we'll get to in just a moment. But about coming to Washington. You've been in New York before, you've been in New Orleans. Why DC, why now? >> Well, it's important for us to make sure that our customers can access the event. We've got more customers that came this year than came previous years, certainly, than last year. And it's important to be in a city where it's accessible for our customers not just in the US, but also from Europe and Asia Pacific, Latin America and Washington DC's very accessible. We also are one of the largest suppliers to public sector organizations. That's, uh, local, state, and federal government. We've got a particular focus on federal government and fed ramp compliance this year, which we achieved. And, so, we're here so that we can show off some of that new technology that you just mentioned. >> Yeah, what about the significance of that? Of reaching the compliance goal. And what does that mean to the business going forward? >> Well, it's yet another example of the benefits of our cloud strategy and working with the AWS beginning in 2014. Infor was the first large ISV to embrace a public cloud. And Amazon and Amazon web services in particular has been very helpful in achieving fed ramp. They have a lot of federal customers. They've got a very large federal agency with three initials that is a customer and they require compliance with all of the federal regulations that continually change and the utmost security for customers and we're able to offer that to our customers as well. >> Yeah, we were talking on the kick off about that - how you guys can draft the AWS innovations and things like fed ramp and other compliance. They were first, they were way ahead of anybody. You as an ISV, you don't have to worry about all that stuff. I mean, you've still got to connect to it, but they do a lot of the heavy lifting, so that's cool. You got some other hard news. >> Well we also are able to focus on our products by doing that. We don't have to invest in proprietary cloud infrastructure or data centers or databases. We can focus on delivering innovation in our products and functionality that makes a difference for our customers. Their business is not - their customers don't care what infrastructure they're running on, they care how they're able to provide goods and services. So Infor focuses just on delivering better goods and services for our customers. >> What Charles said at the keynote this morning - our strategy, we didn't want to compete with Google and Amazon and Microsoft for scale of cloud. That made no sense. It also made the point that when we were an on prem - exclusively on prem software company, we didn't go out and manage servers for our clients. So we don't want to do that. So, big differentiator for sure, from some of the other SAS players. >> And it's paying off now in a way that our competitors are starting to come after us when they used to not want to acknowledge us. One of our larger competitors - on premise legacy vendor - had an anti-Infor ad on their homepage. They've got cabs outside of here. >> We're talking about- - Yeah >> And then Charles said, ya know if you're - we're welcome the competition here if you'd like to see innovation in enterprise software, this is the place to be. >> Well, congratulations, right, 'cause, well, you know, when Oracle's coming at you, it means you succeeded - that's good. Um, other hard news that you guys had this week - you got true cost accounting in healthcare and some other things, take us through those. >> Well health care has been a major focus industry for us, just along with government, which we mentioned. Um, seventy plus percent of large hospitals in the United States are automated using an Infor software. And healthcare has been an industry that's undergone a lot of disruption, obviously, for the last ten, twelve years, with the Affordable Care Act and others. And we're trying to figure out - we as a society are trying to figure out - how to deliver better care to patients, that's the goal for healthcare organizations. And to do that, they need to better understand what's the cost of care. So the Infor true cost, which we announced in January and have now delivered and have customers implementing, will help our customers understand better what is the cost of the care that they're giving so that they can give better care to their patients and allocate their resources in a way that will help more people heal better and feel better. >> We heard on the intro to the keynotes today, Turing, Edison, and Coleman. It sounded like it was Charles' voiceover. I don't know if it was or not, but >> It was. >> It was. He's got the smooth, mellifluous voice. Um, last year Coleman, Catherine, Coleman, Johnson - you named your AI offering platform after her. Give us the update where you're at today, you've got some other announcements around that as well. >> We do. It's a big announcement for Coleman here. We've got the GA of Coleman digital assistant, which is - enables humans to have - everyone to have an assistant at work with them to help automate certain functions such as search and gather, which can take twenty percent of people's time just collecting the information to make a decision. But now with Coleman digital assistant being live and customers implementing and going live on it right now, they're able - users are able to ask Coleman to fetch information and deliver not only the information but predictions and smart intelligence that helps people make better decisions and be more productive. >> So we had a lot of conversation this morning about robotic process automation, which is really interesting. I mean, essentially, we're talking about software robots taking over mundane tasks to humans. Now a lot of people like to talk about how - and we talked about this in the Cube all the time - how, oh, the machines are taking away jobs, but in speaking to numerous customers about RPA, they're thrilled that they don't have to do these mundane tasks because it makes them more valuable, they're doing more interesting things, and they're getting offers from others that are asking them to do this type of automation for their company. So they're more valuable to their existing company and outside companies. So, RPA - hot topic. You guys are leaning in hard. >> We definitely are. We definitely believe that there are jobs that - there are functions that can be better served by automation, particularly search and gather that we mentioned. There are multiple functions that will always be done by people. Human interaction is not going to change so we are looking to have a digital assistant make productivity better. Productivity is a function of being able to do more, having more workers, and we'd like to do both with this. We'd like people to be more productive using artificial intelligence assistance. And, also, a conversational user experience with software will make it easier and less intimidating for a lot of people to interact with technology at work. And we think that will also help people be able to be more productive in their jobs and have more people able to take more jobs that right now or in the past have required a level of technical expertise that you won't need when you can simply ask the computer to do something for you using your own conversational language. >> Some major data points - excuse me - >> That's okay. that came out of the keynote this morning - one is that there are now more job openings than there are unemployed individuals and productivity, even though the tech spending is booming, it doesn't show up in the productivity numbers. We saw this actually, you know, a couple decades ago in the nineties. And all of a sudden you saw this massive productivity boom. I've predicted that with automation and artificial intelligence you're going to see something similar. It seems like Infor's on a mission - that human potential tagline - on a mission to really drive that productivity and help close those gaps. >> We definitely are. Our tagline is "design for progress" and we are looking to promote progress around the world and do what we can in order to help human progress and the theme at Inforum is human potential and that's what we're looking to do here. We have seen a lot of productivity growth in people's personal lives. I now - I don't know how to set a timer to cook anymore, I just ask Alexa to do it, but we haven't seen that at enterprise yet. So we're bringing consumer grade technology that people have gotten used to in their everyday lives but they don't see at the office. We're bringing it to the office to help make them equally as productive as they are in their personal lives. >> Yeah, that's what I wanted to hit on, actually, was the theme of the show. We're talking about human potential and which Hervan Jones talking about that, you know, from a personal mission statement if you want - that's the way he worded it. But, what's the broad scope of that in terms of how you apply that thematically throughout the company when you talk about human potential, because it's just not you, obviously you're trying to do that for your clients, you're trying to do that for the people they serve, do it for taxpayers, right, through the federal sector. But talk about that from the thirty thousand foot level about human potential - unlocking that and how Infor totally is, I guess, trying to illustrate that or put that in place. >> Certainly. The first thing I would mention is our human capital management. Infor is a very large provider of HR software - there's others that are perhaps better known, but Infor has many customers that are using our HR software, but they're also using our software for other key functions. And by integrating those two things, we're able to help people be their best self at work. Because it's not just the HR management, but the HR system knows what you're working on, they can help with professional development, and talent management, and align that to the business processes that the company has. We're also looking to engage workers. As you mentioned, there are more job openings than there are unemployed people that we believe seeking employment right now, but they're not very engaged. So we're hoping to have technology and learning management to help engage more workers. And then we'd also like to increase new business creation. One of the things that Charles mentioned that slowed down is the introduction of new businesses and small businesses. We believe one of the reasons for that is that there is so much business automation that goes on that in order to achieve that to be competitive requires so much capital investment that it makes it difficult to start a new business. But if we're able to automate a lot of that business, we're able to make it really easy through Infor cloud suite for new business starting, we feel like we'll be able to help entrepreneurs generate new businesses which will employ more people and offer more engaging and rewarding jobs and help fill some of those gaps that we have. >> We've talked a lot about AI - not just some magic thing that you throw at your business - it has to be operationalized and the likely way in which organizations are going to consume AI is it's going to be infused in applications. And this is exactly what your strategy it, isn't it? >> It is. The artificial intelligence is only going to be as smart as the amount of data that it can access and that it can analyze. It doesn't have a brain, it looks at data and learns from that data and where it tells you. And Infor has access to data that very few companies have - mission critical data, ERP, data manufacturing, distribution - core processes that we're able to put in the cloud, and not just in the cloud, but in a multi-tenant cloud environment where it can be drawn from analytics, from our burst analytics engine. And then, Coleman can make decisions based on that data - not only from within the enterprise but across the network using GT Nexus commerce network. >> Yeah, so we're hearing a lot about HCM, of course, at this show, you know, human potential, fits into talent management, HCM. You guys have a very competitive product there, it's sort of a knife fight with some of the large SAS players, but I was excited to see so much attention paid to HCM as a key part of your SAS portfolio - your thoughts? >> I do, I agree with you and I think one of the differentiating points that we just mentioned was that Infor HCM also connects to Infor systems that automate core business processes. So it's not just about those business processes, but also knowing who the people are that work on them and helping companies navigate. So much time is wasted from what we would call tribal knowledge - an employee getting up to speed or figuring out how to navigate inside an organization, particularly a large enterprise. And Infor HCM can help make that easier, but they can do that while attached to a business process so that everything can move faster and more efficiently for the customer. >> I wonder if you could comment, Dan, on this notion of best of breed versus a full suite. It seems like - so for decades, there's been this argument of oh, best of breed point products will sometimes win but full suite, people want a single throat to choke and that integration - It seems like with your micro-vertical strategy you're trying to do both - be both best of breed and have a full suite across the enterprise application portfolio. Is that right, you know, do you feel like you guys are succeeding at that, uh where do you think you fit in that whole spectrum? >> That is correct, and it's one of the things that we're able to do because of our cloud strategy - is to offer the complete suite and the artificial intelligence that comes on top of it. In the past, when there wasn't an artificial intelligence layer, there wasn't the machine learning that needed to draw from all of that data, best of breed individual applications would work. But now that we're trying to pull data together so that you can make more intelligent and you get actionable insights that let you make more intelligent decisions, that requires an integrated suite. And that can be done now in a multi-tenant cloud environment that couldn't be done before. >> The other thing I would observe - we talked about this, John - is - >> I'd also really quick just add that I think that that's proving to be correct in the amount of growth that we're seeing. Infor is significantly outgrowing from a revenue perspective. Oracle, more than forty percent last year, more than double the rate of growth of SAP and our growth rate for cloud applications is up there with work day which is setting the bar for cloud software companies. >> Yeah, that's true, that's a great point. I mean work day has set the bar and this is an example of what was essentially a narrow point product there to, of course, trying to get into other spaces. Of course, SAP and Oracle always have had a large suite. Your strategy has seemed to be working in terms of being a place where a customer can come in and access a lot of different functionality. The other thing that we heard today - a year in - is the Koch Industries investment. I was noticing that you now see Accenture here, you see Grant Thorton, Deloitte- >> Capgemini >> Yeah, Capgemini - these people are taking notice of - I would imagine Koch Industries does a lot of business with those guys and one of the gentlemen from Koch told me last year - said "Hey, we're going to expose these SI's to the Infor opportunity." It seems like it started to happen and I've heard that there's been several large deals that they've helped to catalyze, so it's great to see that presence here. Talk a little bit about the Koch Industries dynamic and what that's brought to the table. >> Well, the Koch relationship for Infor has been so helpful. First, obviously, there's a large infusion of cash from the investment. It was 2.5 billion dollars - one of the largest tech investments that wasn't an acquisition in history. And we're able to use that capital to increase more functionality. Not only that, but Infor has an industrial background. The majority of our customers are in manufacturing or distribution - industries that Koch Industries is a big player in. So not only do we have a great partner, but we have a living lab in one of the world's best and most efficient companies with which to develop our software, implement our software, and test our software. And we've got a willing partner in Koch that can do that and provide a lot of that expertise. >> I was telling Dave that that's what really struck me listening to the keynote was that - yeah - it's this wonderful symbiotic relationship and they gave you money - that's nice, right - but you have an opportunity now to roll out services, products, experiment a little bit. >> We do. >> See how it works within the Koch family, if you will, before you take it out further and so you've got this great test lab at your disposal that you didn't have before. >> And like Infor, Koch is a private company, so we don't feel the same pressure to provide quarterly return to shareholders that public companies do. So we're able to invest more of our revenue in development and R and D in ensuring that our products are going to deliver the best experience and the best functionality for our customers. >> Well, to me, the key for Infor - a key - is you've got a large install base and you're trying to get that install base to come to a more modern, SAS-like, cloud-like platform. To do that, you got to be relevant. So, the stuff like Coleman, the burst acquisition, your micro-verticals - those are all highly relevant. You know, your ability eliminate custom mods because you go that last mile. Highly relevant to companies that have to place a bet. Now, when they have to move to this new world, you know, others are going to try to grab them, so you got to hang on to them. To me, relevance, and showing a road map, and showing an investment, and things like R and D, is critical - your thoughts? >> I agree with you, I think that's the reason that we're seeing those large global system integrators partner with Infor now and develop practices that Accenture and Deloitte, Grant Thornton, and Capgemini, that will implement Infor software at their customers. They're having the demand from the customers that they're working with, including up to the largest of enterprises, for Infor software, just simply because we are able to automate processes and help them get to a level of automation that will let them compete in the digital era. There are companies all over are fearing that they're going to be disrupted by a digital, native competitor or a digitally enabled competitor. And we're looking to help Infor customers become digitally enabled themselves and to be that disruptive competitor in their field. >> Well, Dan, we appreciate the time >> Thank you very much. >> Good seeing you, thanks for having us here. >> Thanks for coming back again. >> Overlooking the show floor, got a great seat - >> Yeah, a lot of activity down there. >> And, uh, good luck with the rest of the show. >> Thank you very much. >> Dan Barnhardt, from Infor back with more. Live on the Cube here from Washington DC at Inforum '18. (bright, electric music)

>> Live from Washington DC, it's theCUBE. Covering Inforum DC 2018. Brought to you by Infor. >> Well, welcome to the nation's capital, a rain soaked Washington DC. We're here for Inforum 18, Dave Vellante, John Walls We're in the Walter Washington Convention Center. The fourth time, theCUBE has been at an Infor show and getting bigger and better than ever, David. >> That's right John. This is, let's see, the first one was in New Orleans several years ago. Then Infor skipped a year, and then did Javits couple years in a row. That's sort of the headquarters of where Infor is, very close to the Javits Center. And Charles Phillips, of course, lives in New York City. And this year they decided to come to the nation's capital. I mean, Infor is an interesting company. About $3billion in revenue, essentially it is a private equity roll up. From Golden Gate and others, that really the roots of it are in Lawson Softwares. Some of you may remember Lawson Softwares, the enterprise software company. And then Charles Phillips came on, and of course he was the architect of Oracle's M and A. Probably spent $30 plus billion for Larry Ellison, remaking Oracle. Completely transforming Oracle, brought some of that expertise to Infor in this private equity play, this roll up. And then bought many, many software companies, rolled them up together and really started to compete, using a different model. So, Infor's sort of expertise, if you will is around so called Micro verticals, so they cover a lot of different industries, hospitality industries, they got also manufacturing, ERP, >> Retail financial >> Retail financial, health care, and then they also have horizontal applications like Human Capital management. Their differentiation, is several fold. One major point is they go after what they call the last mile. So they call this micro verticals. So the last mile functionality that would normally have to be customized, Infor does that work for you. Now, the advantage of that is two fold. One is you don't have to do a bunch of custom mods all that hard work is done. The second is, another part of the differentiation is cloud. So they chose, several years ago to go with AWS cloud to put their SaaS on the cloud. Charles Phillips said 'hey when we were an on-prem software company, we didn't manage our own servers for our customers. Or manage customer servers, we didn't do that. So why would we do it in the cloud? We don't want to compete with Google and Microsoft and Amazon in terms of scale, so were going to put our software on the Amazon cloud.' So that's another point of differentiation, the reason that is so important in the context of custom mods, is if you're rolling out new upgrades on a periodic basis, and you hear this a lot from Servicenow customers, for example another cloud software company. You can't do custom mods and then take advantage of the new releases. Because you're going to be way behind. Okay, so you have to have that hard work done so that you can avoid those custom modification. And that is something Infor has been very proud of. So as I say, $3billion company. Last year they took a $2billion investment from Koch industries. Now that investment, largely went to recapitalising the company, the private equity guys probably took some money off the table as did the four, what I call the four horsemen. They were the four, sort of new founders of Infor including Charles Phillips, Pam Murphey who is still there and then two others Duncan Angove and Stephan who have left the company, so they have got some succession planning now. We saw a different, two new faces up on stage Soma and we're going to have some other folks on that we'll introduce you to. But so, now we're entering a new phase and it's the phase of what Charles Phillip's coined 'Human Potentials'. So big focus this year on human capital management, we heard that. Big focus on AI, they talked a lot about robotic process automation. I just had a meeting, last night at the airport in DCA with the head of marketing at an RPA company, UiPath, they are smoking hot, they just raised 225 million they have gone from 2 million to 200 million over night. And that space is exploding, it was interesting to hear Charles Phillips talk a lot today about Robotic process automation, RPA. Which is essentially software >> Break that down for me. >> So RPA is software robots and software robots are used to automate mundane tasks. Having machines do very specific tasks and you are seeing this a lot in financial services and a lot of back office automation. It's not physical robots moving around, it's basically software based processes that machines can do. Repetitive processes, that machines can do better. Machines don't get tired, so they can do these repetitive tasks, take that away those mundane tasks away from humans. You heard a lot of conversation about that today. You also heard a little competitive fire. So Oracle is now taking ads out against Infor, we've seen that. All the cabs here, many of the cabs have Oracle branding on them. So Oracle is paying attention to Infor. >> And they're right down the road here too, by the way. You know, I mean, Western Virginia not far so this is their backyard. >> Well congratulations Infor, Oracle is paying attention to you that means, must mean you're hurting them We've seen this before with others, I mean we certainly saw it, you know in past days with IBM, we see it extensively with Workday. We've seen some kind of, tit for tat with SalesForce, even though SalesForce is one of Oracles largest customers. So that's been kind of fun, fun to watch. And now Infor, so Infor clearly is doing some damage, to the traditional guys. Oracle, SAP, Workday maybe not so much Workday is growing like crazy, but Infor claims it is growing SaaS revenue 50% faster than Oracle's SaaS revenue. It's growing double the rate of SAP, and growing as fast almost as Workday, is kind of what it claims. And so, this whole enterprise resource planning, HCM, vertical market software, horizontal software the market is always been hot. It's a huge, huge market. Many, many, tens of billions, it's probably a hundred billion dollar TAM. And the big, big whales are of course Oracle and SAP, and then of course, SalesForce and you've seen the emergence of companies like ServiceNow which has quite a bit of different strategy but with Oracle, with Infor's sort of Oracle heritage a lot of people in the company came from Oracle so they know where the skeletons are buried they know how to compete, they have relationships with the customers. And they're offering some differentiation, as they say with those Micro verticals, the last mile, and the pure cloud model. Now, if you look at the income statement you'll see the SaaS portion of the business only represents about 25% of the revenues but remember, that's a ratable model. So you're only recognizing revenue as you're, as the months go on, so you're billing sort of monthly if you will, or recognizing monthly. And so, as a result that skews and dampens the effects of the SaaS software, I think from a booking stand point is probably much higher, proportion of bookings I would guess closer to 50% as they said they took $2billion last year from Koch industries. That $2billion dollars didn't really hit the balance sheets, they get about $330million on the balance sheet. And they've a lot of debt, because they you know did you know, it was a private equity you know leverage deal. They did a lot of acquisitions, so they've probably got about $5.7billions of what they call net debt, which presumably is debt after cash. So I would guess close to $6billion in debt. They're a quasi, they're not a public company they're a private company, but they act in many ways like a public company, I would suspect within the next couple of years here, if this kind of growth continues that you'll see an IPO, from Infor. Although, presumably Koch industries, we heard Koch on stage today, they said they've made $15billion in investments in technology companies. $2billion, this has to be one of their largest. And, but that's patient capital. They get the benefit of the cash flow, they can probably take dividends if they want to do that. And if they're smart, and they invest and they can take market share from Oracle and SAP and others, and gain share in the market space, they can do an IPO. They're revenues are $3billion, their valuation, they implied a valuation based on the Koch industries investment is $15billion. So if they can take that $15billion to $30billion 20 to 30 billion, there's going to be a nice return. >> You know I thought, what's interesting about Koch too they talked about this, it's certainly as you talked about 2billion right. They put the money in, but they're also, it's a symbiotic relationship, in that that Koch is using it's organization as a test lab. For a lot of products and services, that Infor is producing. And allowing them to refine that under the Koch umbrella before they take it out to the market place. So that's pretty true, I feel like seems to makes sense. You have a company that has 60,000 world wide employees, you're in dozens of countries, you've a chance to let them take their products to scale, in maybe a somewhat more friendlier, controlled environment before you take it out to the marketplace. That seems to make a lot of sense. >> Yeah, we heard the CIO of Koch industries today and I talked to him last year, and we were talking about some of the technical debt that they had, again going back to those custom modifications that I was talking about earlier. They were in this terrible virtuous cycle almost a negative virtuous cycle where they had so many custom mods that they couldn't make changes. So the applications were becoming voxalised, so they were becoming non competitive and that is the last thing that a line of business wants to hear, is 'hey we can't make the changes, right IT says no, we can't touch the code, it's working or changes take too long. They take months or sometimes years, to get to a major release and so as a result Koch was looking for ways to simplify its application portfolio and its application infrastructure. The other thing that Koch industries has brought is, you might notice on the show floor here, you see Accenture, you see Deloitte, you're seeing Grant Thornton, now these guys weren't really going after, or going hard after the Infor base before. I think, a company like Koch industries does a lot of business with these SIs and so I think Koch has introduced the SIs to the Infor opportunity and maybe nudged them a little bit and say 'hey as a big you know supplier to us, we're a big customer of yours we want you to pay attention to that opportunity and in earnest go look at ways to partner with Infor. And that's happened, my intelligence suggests there are many multi million dollar deals that are being capitalized by these big SIs and they do a ton of business with SAP and Oracle. So that's another positive in the tail wind that Koch industries, I think it's brought to the table. >> Alright, you mention human potential which is the real overarching theme of the show here this week. Again, we're here in Washington DC. I was just listening to Van Jones from CNN. One of their anchors and political contributor talking about that as his personal mantra but certainly that intersects with what Infor is talking about in terms of unlocking human potential and using technology to do that. Share a little light from Charles Phillip's perspective the key note address that he gave, in terms of how do they view human potential and unlocking it with the use of their services? >> Well we're going to have Charles Phillip's on so we'll certainly ask him that but Charles Phillip's is a guy with a lot of potential. And that he is realizing that potential >> Lot of track record too >> Exactly, this is an individual with a military background, he became I don't know if you know the story but he became a highly successful Wall Street analyst. He wrote the seminal piece in the 90s that said the software industry, is too many software players and is going to consolidate. Larry Ellison, prior to reading that used to denigrate competitors for writing cheques not code. Meaning, his competitors were acquiring companies instead of innovating. Well then, he went on a spending spree probably 30, 35 million dollars in acquisitions orchestrated by Charles Phillips. And they totally remade Oracle starting with a soft hostile takeover. And then now you see Oracle, obviously this Saas powerhouse with many many companies that were bought in. Charles Phillips left Oracle, became the CEO of Infor and we heard today, architected an entirely new strategy with a stack, they call this thing the Stack. I'll just go through this briefly, I wrote about it last year, in the WikiBon blog. They've got the Infor platform, the Infor OS and then it goes all the way up to AI, the last mile software, the cloud. They have this thing called GT nexus, which is a supply chain network and that where their IoT play fits. Then they bought a company last year called Birst, to do BI and analytics, and then on top of that is Coleman. So they've got this stack that they are basically infusing into their applications, and I will answer your question. Essentially what they want to do is, use automation and artificial intelligence to essentially coach people, worker, as they're doing their jobs. So we heard today, that there are more openings than there are unemployed >> Employees, yeah. >> And productivity is going down. So Infor, Charles Phillips wants to attack that problem through software and automation. How do you do that? Well, if you could use artificial intelligence to monitor people's KPIs, they didn't use those terms but that is essentially what they are doing. And then provide feedback on outcomes, 'hey you could have done it differently. You could have done it more quickly. The outcome could have been better if.' Also, analyzing other factors like the relationship for example, using data to analyze the relationship between say tenure or were you recently promoted or turn over on the productivity of for instance stores, retail stores for example. And so, you're seeing an infusion of AI and software and automation in to the entire application portfolio to unlock the human potential. That's one part of it, the other part of it is Charles Phillips is big on diversity, big on women in business, and so that's another angle that I am sure we are going to hear more about this week. >> I thought it was interesting too any time a show comes to Washington there is a reason. And it's generally federal sector based, policy based. There's a regulatory undertone of some kind. And it was addressed somewhat on the key note stage here this morning. But the idea, the notion was that federal regulation and federal mandates, whatever, can't keep up the pace. They just can't, and it really is up to the tech sector because it works on a much different time frame, right? I mean, changes are made by the minute, whereas policy gets shaped by the year. You know, up on the hill here, not far about 3 miles 2 miles from here. So, the tech sector's responsibility in that regard in terms of being more diverse, of having more inclusivity, of looking at environmental considerations. All these things, and of unleashing human potential. And not at making a government do that. Not letting a regulation do that. That certainly plays in the Infor's thinking as well, I would think? >> Yes, so first of all we were down here at the AWS public sector event in June. And there were ten thousand people here. So AWS has a huge presence here. Infor and AWS are big time partners. And remember the CIA was the first deal, the first cloud deal, that AWS did, they won. IBM contested it, the judge eviscerated IBM in his ruling. Basically saying they were gaming the system. They were purposely misinterpreting the RFP. Amazon won hands down, it was a huge victory for Amazon. Forced IBM to go out and capitulate and purchase Softlayer for $2billion. I believe that only helps a company like Infor who has decided to be all public cloud, with AWS and drafting off AWS' deep ties to various government agencies, in the GovCloud. So for instance, AWS was first with fedramp. First with a lot of different certifications and security hurdles. And so Infor can just draft off of that. The CIA, again a big account, we heard the CIA talk in June about how security on the worst day of cloud is better than its client server applications on their best day. And so, I suspect Infor is doing business with the CIA although that's not come out publicly. But I would think that there is an advantage Infor has because of that AWS relationship. And that makes DC all the much more important for them. Well, we are at Inforum 18, we have a full 2 days of scheduling for you. Great guest coming up here on theCUBE. I am with Dave Vellante, I'm John Walls We'll continue here on theCUBE live from DC right after this break.

(fun, relaxing music) >> Announcer: Live from the Javits Center, in New York City, it's The Cube. Covering Inforum 2017. Brought to you by Infor. >> Welcome back to The Cube's coverage of Inforum 2017, I'm your host Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, Dave Vellante. We're joined by Stephan Scholl, he is the president of Infor. Thanks so much for joining us. >> My pleasure. >> For returning to The Cube My pleasure, yeah, three years in a row, I think, or four now, yeah. >> Indeed. >> Well, we skipped a year in-between. >> That's right! Three years. Anyway, it's good to be here. >> This has been a hugely successful conference. We're hearing so much about the growth and momentum of Infor. Can you unpack this a little bit for our viewers? >> Yeah, I mean... People always forget, we only started this aggressive Cloud journey literally three years ago. When we announced at Inforum in New Orleans that we were pivoting the company to Infor industry-based CloudSuites, everybody looked at us and said, "Well, that's an interesting pivot." "Why are you doing that?" Well, as I said yesterday, we really saw a market dynamic that you see retail just getting crushed by what Amazon was doing, and it was obvious, today, but then it wasn't so obvious, but that was going to happen everywhere, and so we really got aggressive on believing we could put together a very different approach to tackling enterprise software. Everybody is so fatigued from buying from our competitors traditional, perpetual software, and then you end up modifying the hell out of it, and then you end up spending a gazillion dollars, and it takes forever, and then if it does work, you're stuck on old technology already, and you never get to the next round of evolution. So we said why don't we build CloudSuites, take the last model industry functionality that we have, put it in a Cloud, make it easy for our customers to implement it, and then we'll run it for them. And then, by the way, when the newest innovation comes up, we'll upgrade them automatically. That's what Cloud's about. So, that's where we saw that transformation happening. So in three years, we went from two percent, as I said, to 55 plus percent of our revenue. And, by the way, we're not a small company. Nobody at our size and scale has ever done that in enterprise software. So what an accomplishment. >> So a lot of large companies, some that you used to work for, are really slow. And, you know what, lot of times that's okay, 'cause IT tends to be really slow, as you move to the Cloud, and move to the situation where, "Okay, guys, new release coming!" What are your customers saying about that, how are you managing that sort of pace of change, that flywheel of Amazon, and you're now innovating on and pushing to your climate? >> Well, they're excited. And, I'll tell you, I remember standing up in Frankfurt, Germany, 18 months ago for a keynote, and said the Cloud is coming, I almost got kicked out of Germany. (laughing) They said it's not going to happen in Germany, "No, we're an engineering pedigree," "We're going to be on premise." >> "You don't understand the German market!" >> "You don't understand our marketplace!" And, we're really close friends with Andy Jassy at AWS, the CEO. The AWS guys are unbelievable, and innovative, and we said, "You know, you guys got to build" "your next data center in Frankfurt." So they put hundreds of millions of dollars investment in, built a data center. What's the fastest growing data center in Europe, right now, for them? Frankfurt! The German market, for us, our pipeline is tenfold increase from what it was a year ago. So, it's working in Germany, and it's happening on a global basis, we have, I think yesterday 75 customers from Saudi, from Dubai, from all the Middle East. Cloud is a great equalizer. And don't underestimate... I'll take luck to our advantage anytime. The luck part is, there's fatigue out there, they're exhausted, they've spent so much money over the last 20, 30 years, and never reached the promise of what they were sold then, and so now, with all the digital disruption, I think of the business competitive challenges that they have to deal with. I mean, I don't care, you could be in Wichita, Kansas building up an e-commerce website, and compete with a company in Saudi tomorrow. The barest entry in manufacturing, retail, look at government agencies, we're doing nine-figure transformations in the Cloud with public sector agencies. Again, two years ago, they would've said never going to happen. >> Rebecca: Yet the government does spend that kind of... >> Mike Rogers, the CIO, was saying to us, "Look at all the technical debt" "that we've accumulated over the years," "and it just keeps getting worse and worse and worse." "If we don't bite the bullet and move now," "it's just going to take that much longer." >> That's right. And they're leap-frogging. I mean, I'm so excited, government agencies! I mean, there's even some edicts in some places where Cloud-only. I mean, this whole Gold Coast opportunity, 40 plus different applications in Australia, all going into the Cloud to handle all the complexities they have around the commonwealth games that they're trying to deal with. I mean, just huge transformations on a global basis. >> At this conference, we're hearing about so many different companies, and, as you said, government agencies, municipalalities, transforming their business models, transforming their approaches. What are some of your favorite transformation stories? >> My favorite one that we're doing is Travis Perkins. John Carter, I think you guys maybe even interviewed him last year when he was here. CEO. Old, staid distribution business, and taking a whole new fresh approach. Undoing 40 to 50 different applications, taking his entire business, putting it online. He deals with contracts... So, they're the Home Depot of the UK market, and right now, if you drive up into that car port and you want to order something, it's manual! Sticky notes, phones, dumb terminals, I need five windows, I need five roofs, I need five pieces of wood. Everything is just a scurry. He wants to put it on, when you drive up next year, you're on an iPad, what would you like? Oh, by the way, you want to make a custom order on that window frame? You want to make green, yellow, red, you want to order different tiles of roof styling? Custom orders is the future! You, as a contractor, walking into that organization, want to make a custom order. That, today, is very complicated for a company like that to handle. So, the future is about undoing all that, embracing the custom order process, giving you a really unique, touchless buying process, where it's all on an iPad, it's all automated. You know what? Telling you here's your five new windows, here's a new frame want on it, and, by the way, you're going to get it in five days, and three hours, and 21 minutes. Deliver it to your door. And, by the way, these guys are huge. They're one of the biggest distribution companies in all of the United Kingdom, and so that's one of my favorite stories. >> Can we go over some of the metrics that you've been sharing. I know it's somewhat repetitive, but I'd like to get it on-record. There's 55%, 84, 88, over 1100, 3x, 60%, maybe start with the 60%. I think it's bookings grown, right? >> That's right, yeah. License sales growth last year alone. And, you know what, I looked at... You know, I see it, Paul always keeps me honest, but I think I can say it anyways, which is, I looked at everybody else. You look at the... I don't want you to mention any competitors' names, but you look at the top five competitors that we have, we grew faster than they did last year on sales of CloudSuite. >> Dave: Okay, so that's 60% bookings growth on Cloud. >> Correct. That's right. Yeah, I mean, when you think of our competitors, I saw 40s, I saw some 30s, I saw maybe 52 at the next one down. So, people don't think of us that way, so we were, at the enterprise scale, the fastest-growing Cloud company in the world. >> Okay, and then, 3x, that's 3x the number of customers who bought multiple products, is that correct? >> Correct. That's exactly right. So think about that transformation. They used to buy from us one product, feature-function rich, great, but now they're buying five products, eight products from us. So 3x increase, year over year, already happening. >> Okay, and then there was 1100 plus, is Go-Lives. >> People always ask us, "You're selling stuff." "Are they using it, is it working?" So you got to follow up with delivery, so we're spending a ton of money on certification, training, and ablement, look at the SI community, look at the... Deloitte, Accenture, Capgemini, and Grand Thornton. Four of the major SIs in the world, that weren't here last year, are all here this year. Platinum sponsors. So, delivery on Go Lives, the SI community is embracing us, helping us, I mean, I can't do hundred million dollar transformations on my own with these customers. I need Accenture, I need Deloitte. Look at Koch! Koch's going to be a massive transformation for financials, human-capital management, and so I've got Accenture and Deloitte helping us, taking a hundred plus billion dollar company on those two systems. >> And then 84, 88, is number of... >> Live customers, I'm sorry, total customers that we have in the Cloud. >> Cloud customers, okay, not total customers. >> No, no, we have 90 thousand plus customers, and then 84, 85 hundred of them are Cloud-based customers. >> You got a ways to go, then, to convert some of those customers. >> Well, that's our opportunity, that's exactly right. >> And then 55% of revenue came from the Cloud, obviously driven by the Cloud bookings growth. >> That's right. Exactly. So, I mean, just the acceleration, I mean, as I said, when we started this thing in New Orleans, two or three percent. Now, tipping point, revenue, I mean, it's one thing to sell software, but to actually turn it into revenue? Nobody at an enterprise scale has done 2% to 55% at our size. Lots of companies in the hundred million dollar range, small companies, you know, if we were a stand-alone Cloud company, we'd be one of the largest Cloud companies in the world. >> So the narrative from Oracle, I wonder if you can comment on this, is that the core of enterprise apps has not moved to the Cloud, and we, Oracle, are the guys to move it there, 'cause we are the only ones with that end-to-end Cloud on prem to Cloud strategy. And most companies can't put core apps, enterprise apps in the Cloud, especially on Amazon. So, what do you say to that? >> Well, it's 'cause they don't have the applications to do that. Oracle doesn't have the application horsepower. They don't have industry-based application suites. If you think of what fusion is, it's a mishmash of all the applications that they bought. There's no industry capability. >> Dave: It's horizontal, is what you're saying. >> It's horizontal. Oracle is fighting a battle against Amazon, they declared war against AWS. I'm glad they're doing that, go ahead! I mean, I don't know how you're going to do that, but they want to fight the infrastructure game. For us, infrastructure is commoditized. We're fighting the business applications layer game, and so, when you look at SAP or Oracle or anybody else, they have never done what we've done in our heritage, which is take key critical mission functionality for aerospace and defense, or automotive, we have the last mile functionality. I mean, I have companies like Ferrari, on of the most complicated companies, we've talked about those guys for years, no modifications! BAE, over in the UK, building the F-35 fighter jets and the Typhoon war planes. It doesn't get any more complicated than building an F-35 fighter jet. No modifications in their software, that they have with us. You can only build Cloud-based solutions if you don't modify the software. Oracle doesn't have that. Never had it. They're not a manufacturing pedigreed organization. SAP's probably more analogous to that, but even for SAP, they only have one complete big product sect covering retail, distribution, finance, it's the same piece of software they send to a bank, that they send to a retailer, that they send to a manufacturer. We don't do that. That's been our core forever. >> So your dogma is no custom mods, because you're basically saying you can't succeed in the Cloud with custom mods. >> Yeah. I mean, we have an extensive ability platform to do some neat things if you need to do that, but generally speaking, otherwise it's just lipstick on the pig if you're running modified applications. That's called hosting, and that's what these guys are largely doing. >> You know, a lot of people count hosting as Cloud. >> That's the game they're playing, right? >> They throw everything in the Cloud kitchen sink. >> That's right. >> Okay. >> And as we've talked with you before, we've spent billions... We all are R&D's at the application layer. We do some work in the integration layer, and so on, but most of our money is spent in the last mile, which, Oracle and SAP, they're all focused on HANA and infrastructure, and system speed, and performance, and all the stuff that we view as absolutely being commoditized. >> But that's really attractive to the SIs, the fact that they don't go that last mile, so why is it that the SIs are suddenly sort of coming to Infor? >> Well, you know what, because they finally see there is a lot of revenue still on the line in terms of change management, business-process re-engineering. You take a company like Travis Perkins, change their entire model of doing business. There isn't just modification revenue, or integration revenue, there is huge dollars to be had on change management, taking the company to CEO John Carter by the hand, and saying, "Here's how you're going to transform" "your entire business process." That more than makes up in many cases high-value dollars than focused on changing a widget from green to yellow. >> And it's right in the wheelhouse of these big consultancies. >> And they're making good money on digital transformation, so what are the digital use cases? Look at Accenture, they're did a great job. I think 20 plus percent of their business now is all coming from digital. That didn't exist three, four years ago. >> Well, you have a lot of historical experience from your Oracle days of working with those large SIs, they were critical, but they were doing different type of work then, and is it your premise that a lot of that's going away and that's shifting toward. >> The voice of the customer is everything, and it may take time, you can snow a customer once, which we've already done in this industry of software. We told them buy generic-based software, Oracle or SAP, modify it with an SI, take five years, implement it for a hundred million dollars, get stuck on this platform, and if you're lucky, maybe upgrade in ten years. Whoever does that today, as a playbook, as a customer, and if an SI can sell that, I'm not buying that. You think any customers I know today are buying that vision? I don't think so. >> Dave: Right there with the outsourcing business. >> Another thing that's come out of this conference is attention to the Brooklyn Nets deal. Can you talk a little big about it, it's very cool. >> I love those guys. >> Dave: We're from Boston, we love the Brooklyn Nets, too. >> Rebecca: They can play us anytime. Every day. >> Dave: For those draft picks. >> Bread on those guys. You know what it is. And Shaun, the GM, the energy... I use that a lot with my own guys. Brooklyn grit. And they're willing to look and upturn every aspect of the game to be more competitive. And so, we're in there with our technology, looking at every facet, what are they eating? What's the EQ stuff? Emotional occlusion. How's that team collaboration coming together? And then mapping it to... They have the best 3-D cameras on the court, so put positioning, and how are they aligning to each other? Who's doing the front guard in terms of holding the next person back so they can have enough room to do a three-point shot. Where should the three-point shot come from? So, taking all the EQ stuff, the IQ stuff, the performance, the teamwork, putting it all into a recipe for success. These guys are, I'm going to predict it here, these guys are going to rock it next couple years as a team. >> But it's not just what goes on in the court, too, it's also about fan engagement, too. >> All that. Well, fair enough, I get all excited about just making them a much better team, but the whole fan experience, walking into a place knowing that if I get up now, the washroom line isn't 15 miles long, and at the cash line for a beer isn't going to take me 20 minutes, that I'm on my app, you actually have all the information and sensors in place to know that, hey, right now's a great time, aisle number four, queue number three, is a one-minute wait for a beer, go. Or have runners, everything's on your phone, they don't do enough service. So there's a huge revenue opportunity along with it, from a business point of view, but I would also say is a customer service element. How many times have we sat in a game and go, "I'm not getting up there." (laughing) Unless you're sitting in the VIP area, well, there's revenue to be had all over the place. >> Yeah, they're missing out on our beer money, yeah. >> It's ways for a stadium services, which are essentially a liquor distribution system. >> Exactly right. But to do that, you got to connect point of sales systems, you got to connect a lot of components, centers in the bathroom, I mean you got to do a lot of work, so we're going to create the fan experience of the future with them. And preferences, the fact that they that when you walk in past the door with your app and if you have Brooklyn Nets app, that we know who your favorite player is, and you get a little text that says, Hey, you know what, 10% discount on the next shirt from your favorite player. Things like that. Making a personal connection with you about what you like is going to change the game. And that's happening everywhere. In retail... Everybody wants to have a one-to-one relationship. You want to order your Nike shoes online with a green lace and a red lace on the right, Nike allows you to do that. You want to order a shirt that they'll make for you with the different emblems on it and different technology to it, those are things they're doing, too. So, a very one-to-one relationship. >> Well, it's data, it's more than data, it's insights, and you guys are, everybody's a data company, but you're really becoming a data and insight-oriented company. Did you kind of stumble into that, or is this part of the grand plan six years ago, or, how'd you get here? >> Listen, this whole... I mean, to do Cloud-based solutions by industry is not just to solve for applications going from infrastructure on-premise to off-premise. What does it allow you to do? Well, if you're in AWS, I can run ten thousand core products... I can run a report in ten minutes with AWS that would take you a week, around sales information, customer information. Look at all the Netflix content. You log in on Netflix, "Suggestions for You". It's actually pretty accurate, isn't it? >> Scarily accurate, sometimes, yes. >> It's pretty smart what goes into the algorithm that looks at your past. Unfortunately, I log into my kid's section, and it has my name on it and I get all these wonderful recommendations for kids. But that's the kind of stuff that we're talking about. Customers need that. It's about real-time, it's not looking backwards anymore, it's about real-time decisioning, and analytics, and artificial intelligence, AI is the future, for sure. >> So more, more on the future, this is really fun, listening to you talk, because you are the president, and you have a great view of what's going on. What will we be talking about next year, at this time. Well, it won't be quite this time, it will be September, but what do you think? >> I think what you're going to see is massive global organizations up on stage, like the ones I mentioned, Travis Perkins, a Safeway, a Gold Coast, a Hertz. Hertz is under attack as a company. The entry point into the rental car business was very very hard. Who's going to go buy 800 thousand cars and get in the rental business, open ten thousand centers? You don't need to do that anymore today! >> Dave: Software! >> It's called software, the application business, so their business model is under attack. We're feverishly working with their CEO and their executive team and their board on redefining the future of Hertz. So, you're going to see here, next year, the conversation with a company like Hertz rebounding and growing and being successful, and... The best defense is a good offense, so they're on the offensive! They're going to use their size, their scale. You look at the retailers, I mean, I love the TAL story, and they may make one out of every six shirts. Amazon puts the same shirt online that they sell for $39.99, TAL's trying to sell for $89.99. They're saying enough of that. They built these beautiful analyzers, sensors, where you walk into this little room, and they do a sensor of a hundred different parts of your body, So they're going to get the perfect shirt for you. So, it's an experience center. So you walk into this little center, name's escaping me now, but they're going to take all the measurements, like a professional Italian tailor would do, you walk in, it's all automatic, you come out of there, they know all the components of your body, which is a good thing and a bad thing, sometimes, right, (laughing) they'll know it all, and then you go to this beautiful rack and you're going to pick what color do you want. Do you want a different color? So everything is moving to custom, and you'll pay more for that. Wouldn't you pay for a customized shirt that fits your body perfectly, rather than an off-the-rack kind of shirt at $89.99? That's how you compete with the generic-based e-commerce plays that are out there. That use case of TAL is going to happen in every facet. DSW, the DSW ones, these experience centers, the shoeless aisles, that whole experience. You walking in as... The most loyal women shoppers are DSW with their applications, right. >> Rebecca: (laughs) Yes, yes. >> And how many times have you tried a shoe on that doesn't fit properly, or it's not the one you want, or they don't have your size, or you want to make some configurations to it. You got one, too! >> Ashley came by and gave me this, 'cause I love DSW. >> I mean, they're what, one of the biggest shoe companies in the world not standing still, and Ashley is transforming, they went live on financials in like 90 days in the Cloud? Which for them, that kind of innovation happening that fast is unbelievable. So next year, the whole customer experience side is going to be revolutionary for these kinds of exciting organizations. So, rather than cowering from this digital transformation, they're embracing it. We're going to be the engine of digital transformation for them. I get so excited to have major corporations completely disrupting themselves to change their market for themselves moving forward. >> What is the Koch investment meant to you guys, can you talk about that a little bit? I mean, obviously, we hear two billion dollars, and blah, blah, blah, but can you go a little deeper for us? >> I mean, forget all the money stuff, for a minute, just the fact that we're part of a company that is, went from 40 million when Charles Koch started, taking over from his family, and went to 100 plus billion. Think about that innovation. Think about the horsepower, the culture, the aggressiveness, the tenacity, the will to win. We already had that. To combine that with their sheer size and scale is something that is exciting for me, one. Two is they view technology as the next big chapter for them. I mean, again, not resting on your laurels, I'm already 100 billion, they want to grow to 150, 200 billion, and they see technology as the root to getting there. Automating their plants, connecting all their components of their employees, gain the right employees to the right place, so workforce management, all the HR stuff that we're doing on transformation, the financials, getting a global consolidated view across 100 billion dollar business on our systems. That's transformation! That's big, big business for us, and what a great reference to have! A guy like Steve Fellmeier up yesterday, he'll be up here next year talking about how he's using us to transform their business. There's not many 100 billion dollar companies around, right, so what a great reference point for us to have them as a customer, and as a proved point of success. >> Well, we'll look forward to that in September, and seeing you back here next year, too. >> Look forward to it. >> Stephan, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks, appreciate it, thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Vellante, that is it for us and The Cube at Inforum 2017. See you next time.

>> Narrator: Live from the Javits Center in New York City. It's the Cube, covering the Inforum 2017. Brought to you by Infor. >> We are wrapping up the Cube's day two coverage of conference here in New York City at Inforum. My name is Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost Dave Vellante. We're joined by Dan Barnhardt. He is the Infor Vice President of Communications. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Yes, thank you for having me. Thank you for being here two days in a row. >> It's been a lot of fun. We've had a great time. So yeah, congratulations, it's been a hugely successful conference, a lot of buzz. Recap it for us, what's been most exciting for you? >> Sure, this was our second year having a forum in New York, which is our home town. I think it was a more exciting conference than last year. We unveiled some incredible development updates, led by Coleman, our AI offering, which is an incredible announcement for us, as well as Networked CloudSuites, which takes the functionality from our GT Nexus commerce network, and bakes it into our CloudSuites, the mission critical industry CloudSuites, that we offer on the Amazon Web Services cloud. Those were really exciting developments, as well as some other announcements we made with regard to product. And then, in addition to product, we had a lot of customer momentum that we shared. Last year, we had customers like Whole Foods and Travis Perkins up here. We continued the momentum with big enterprise customers making big bets on Infor, led by Koch Industries who invested more than two billion dollars this year at Infor, and are now modernizing their human resources and their financial operations with Infor CloudSuites. Moving to the cloud HR for 130,000 employees at Koch Industries which is an incredible achievement for the product, and for cloud HR. And, that's very exciting, as well as other companies like FootLocker, which were recognized with the Innovation Award for our Progress Makers Award. They're using talent science, data science to power their employees, not to power their employees, but to drive their employees towards greater productivity and greater happiness, because they've got the right people in the right fit for FootLocker, that's very exciting. And, of course, Bank of America, our Customer of the Year, which uses our HR solutions for their workforce, which obviously is exceptionally large. >> Yes, there was a great ceremony this morning, with a lot of recognition. So, let's talk a little bit more about Coleman, this was the big product announcement, really the first product in AI for Infor. Tell us a little bit about the building blocks. >> For certain. We have a couple of AI offerings now, like predictive hotel pricing, predictive demand and assortment planning in retail, but we have been building towards Coleman and what we consider the age of networked intelligence for multiple years. Since we architected Infor CloudSuite to run mission critical ERP in the cloud, we developed the capability of having data, mission critical data that really runs a business, your manufacturing, finance, distribution core functions, in the cloud on AWS, which gives us hyper-scale compute power to crunch incredible data. So, that really became possible once we moved CloudSuite in 2014. And then in 2015, we acquired GT Nexus, which is a commerce network that unites, that brings in the 80 percent of enterprise data that lies outside the four walls, among suppliers, and logistics providers, and banks. That unified that into the CloudSuite and brought that data in, and we're able to crunch that using the compute power of AWS. And then last year at Inforum, we announced the acquisition of Predictix, which is a predictive solutions for retail. And when building those, Predictix was making such groundbreaking development in the area of machine learning that they spun off a separate group called Logicblox, just to focus on machine learning. And Inforum vested heavily, we didn't talk a lot about Logicblox, but that was going to deliver a lot of the capabilities along with Amazon's developments with Lex and Alexa to enable Coleman to come to reality. So we were able then to acquire Birst. Birst is a BI program that takes, and harmonizes, the data that comes across CloudSuite and GT Nexus in a digestible form that with the machine learning power from Logicblox can power Coleman. So now we have AI that's pervasive underneath the application, making decisions, recommending advice so that people can maximize their potential at work, not have to do more menial tasks like search and gather, which McKenzie has shown can take 20 percent of your work week just looking for the information and gathering the information to make decisions. Now, you can say Coleman get me this information, and Coleman is able to return that information to you instantly, and let you make decisions, which is very, very exciting breakthrough. >> So there's a lot there. When you and I talked prior to the show, I was kind of looking for okay, what's going to be new and different, and one of the things you said was we're really going to have a focus on innovation. So, in previous Inforums it's really been about, to me anyway, we do a lot of really hard work. We're hearing a lot about acquisitions, certainly AI and Coleman, how those acquisitions come together with your, you know, what Duncan Angove calls the layer cake, you know the wedding cake stack, the strategy stack, I call it. So do you feel like you've achieved those objectives of messaging that innovation, and what's the reaction then from the customer base? >> Without a doubt. I wouldn't characterize anything that we said last year as not innovative, we announced H&L Digital, our digital transformation arm which is doing some incredible custom projects, like for the Brooklyn Nets, essentially money balling the NBA. Look forward to seeing that in next season a little bit, and then more in the season to come. Some big projects with Travis Perkins and with some other customers, care dot com, that were mentioned. But this year we're unveiling Coleman, which takes a lot of pieces, as Duncan said sort of the wedding cake, and puts them together. This has been a development for years. And now we're able to unveil it, and we've chosen to name it Coleman in honor of Katherine Coleman Johnson, one of the ladies whose life was told in the movie Hidden Figures, and she was a pioneer African-American woman in Stem, which is an important cause for us. You know, Infor years ago when we were in New Orleans unveiled the Infor Education Alliance program so that we can invest in increasing Stem education among young people, all young people with a particular focus on minorities and women to increase the ranks of underrepresented communities in the technology industry. So this, Coleman, not only pays honor to Katherine Johnson the person, but also to her mission to increase the number of people that are choosing careers in Stem, which as we have shown is the future of work for human beings. >> So talk a little bit more about Infor's commitment to increasing number to increasing, not only Stem education, but as you said increasing the number of women and minorities who go into Stem careers. >> Certainly. We, you know Pam Murphy who is our chief operating officer, this has been an incredibly important cause to her as well as Charles Phillips our CEO. We launched the Women's Infor Network, WIN, several years ago and that's had some incredible results in helping to increase the number of women at Infor. Many years ago, I think it was Google that first released their diversity report, and it drew a lot of attention to how many women and how many minorities are in technology. And they got a lot of heat, because it was about 30, 35 percent of their workforce was female, and then as other companies started rolling out their diversity report, it was a consistent number between 30 to 35 percent, and what we identified from that was not that women are not getting the jobs, it's that there aren't as many women pursuing careers in this type of field. >> Rebecca: Pipeline. >> Yes. So in order to do that, we need to provide an environment that nurtures some of the specific needs that women have, and that we're promoting education. So we formed the WIN program to do that first task, and this year on International Women's Day in early March, we were able to show some of the results that came from that, particularly in senior positions, SVP, VP, and director level positions at Infor. Some have risen 60 percent the number of women in those roles since we launched the Women's Infor Network just a couple of years ago. And then we launched the Education Alliance Program. We partnered with institutions, like CUNY the City University of New York, the New York Urban League, and universities now across the globe, we've got them in India, in Thailand and China, in South Korea to help increase the number of people who are pursuing careers in Stem. We've also sponsored PBS series and Girls Who Code, we have a hack-athon going on here at Inforum with a bunch of young people who are building, sort of, add-on apps and widgets that go to company Infor. We're investing a lot in the growth of Stem education, and the next generation. >> And by the way, those numbers that you mentioned for Google and others at around 30, 34 percent, that's much better than the industry average. They're doing quote, unquote well and still far below the 50 percent which is what you would think, you know, based on population it would be. So mainly the average is around, or the actual number's around 17 percent in the technology business, and then the other thing I would add is Amazon, I believe, was pretty forthcoming about its compensation, you know. >> Salesforce really started it, Marc Benioff. >> And they got a lot of heat for it, but it's transparency is really the starting point, right? >> It was clear really early for companies like Salesforce, and Amazon, and Google, and Infor that this was not something that we needed to create talking points about, we were going to need to effect real change. And that was going to take investment and time, and thankfully with leadership like Charles Phillips, our CEO, and Marc Benioff were making investments to help make sure that the next generation of every human, but particularly women and minorities that are underrepresented right now in technology, have those skills that will be needed in the years to come. >> Right, you have to start with a benchmark and then know where you're moving from. >> Absolutely, just like if you're starting a project to transform your business, where do you want to go and what are the steps that are going to help you get there? >> Speaking of transforming your business, this is another big trend, is digital transformation. So now that we are at nearing the end of day two of this conference, what are you hearing from customers about this jaunting, sometimes painful process that they must endure, but really they must endure it in order to stay alive and to thrive? >> Without a doubt. A disruption is happening in every industry that we're seeing, and customers across all of the industries that Infor serves, like manufacturing, healthcare, retail, distribution, they are thinking about how do we survive in the new economy, when everything is digital, when every company needs to be a technology company. And we are working with our customers to help first modernize their systems. You can't be held back by old technology, you need to move to the cloud to get the flexibility and the agility that can adapt to changing business conditions and disruptions. No longer do you have years to adapt to things, they're happening overnight, you must have flexible solutions to do that. So, we have a lot of customers. We just had a panel with Travis Perkins, and with Pilot Flying J, who was on the Cube earlier, talking about how their, and Cook Industries our primary investor now, talking about how they're re-architecting their IT infrastructure to give them that agility so they can start thinking about what sort of projects could open up new streams of revenue. How could we, you know, do something else that we never thought of, but now we have the capability to do digitally that could be the future of our business? And it's really exciting to have all the CIOs, and SVPs of technology, VPs of technology, that are here at Inforum talking about what they're doing, and how they're imagining their business. It's really incredible to get a peek at what they're doing. >> You know, we were talking to Debbie earlier. One of the interesting things that I, my takeaway is on the digital transformation, is you know, we always say digital is data and then what we talked about was the ability to traverse industry value change, not just vertically but horizontally. Amazon buying Whole Foods is a perfect example, Amazon's a content company, Apple's getting into financial services. I wonder if you could comment on your thoughts on because you're so deep into micro-verticals, and what Debbie said was well I gave a consumer package good example to a process manufacturing company. And they were like what are you talking about, and she said look, let me connect the dots and the light bulbs went off. And they said wow, we could take that CPG example and apply it, so I wonder when we talk about digital transformation, if you see or can foresee your advantage in micro-verticals as translating across those verticals. >> Without a doubt. We talk about it as adjacent innovation. And Charles points back to an example, way back from the creation of the niche in glass, and how that led to additional businesses and industries like eyeglasses and fire preparedness, and we look at it that way for certain. We dive very deep into key industries, but when we look at them holistically across and we say oh, this is happening within the retail industry, we can identify key functionality that might change the industry of disruption, not disruption, distribution. Might disrupt the distribution industry, and we can apply the lessons learned by having that industry specialization into other industries and help them realize a potential that they weren't aware of before, because we uncovered it in one place. That's happening an awful lot with what we do with retail and assortment planning and healthcare. We run 70 percent of the large hospitals in the US, and we're learning a lot from retail and how we might help hospitals move more quickly. When you are managing life and death situations, if you are planning assortment or inventory for those key supplies within a hospital, and you can make even small adjustments that can have huge impact on patient care, so that's one of the benefits of our industry-first strategy, and the adjacent innovation that we cultivate there. >> I know we're not even finished with Inforum 2017, but we must look ahead to 2018. Talk a little bit about what your goals for next year's conference are. >> For sure. You're correct, we're not finished yet with Inforum. I know everyone here is really excited about Bruno Mars who's entertaining tonight, but we are looking forward to next year's conference as well, we're already talking about some of the innovative things that we'll announce, and the customer journeys that are beginning now, which we'd like to unveil there. We are going to be moving the conference from New York, we're going to move to Washington DC in late-September, September 24th to 27th in Washington DC, which we're very excited about to let our customers, they come back every year to learn more. We had seven thousand people attending this year, we want to give them a little bit of a variety, while still making sure that they can reach, you know, with one stop from Europe and from Asia, cause customers are traveling from all over the world, but we're very excited to see the growth that would be shared. This year, for instance, if you look at the sponsors, we had our primary SI partner Avaap was platinum partner last year. In addition to Avaap this year, we were joined by Accenture, and Deloitte, Capgemini, Grant Thorton, all of whom have built Infor practices over the last 12 months because there's so much momentum over our solutions that that is a revenue opportunity for them that they want to take advantage of. >> And the momentum is just going to keep on going next year in September. So I'll see you in September. >> Yeah, thank you very much. I appreciate you guys being here with us for the third year, second year in a row in New York. >> Indeed, thank you. I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Vellante, we will have more from Inforum 2017 in a bit.

>> Announcer: Live from the Javits Center in New York City, it's theCUBE. Covering Inforum 2017. Brought to you buy Infor. >> Welcome back to Inforum 2017 everybody. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. Duncan Angove is here, the President of Infor and a Cube alum. Good to see you again Duncan. >> Hey, afternoon guys. >> So it's all coming together right? When we first met you guys down in New Orleans, we were sort of unpacking, trying to squint through what the strategy is. Now we call it the layer cake, we were talking about off camera, really starting to be cohesive. But set up sort of what's been going on at Infor. How are you feeling? What the vibe is like? >> Yeah it's been an amazing journey over the last six years. And, um, you know, all the investments we put in products, as you know, we said to you guys way back then, we've always put products at the center. Our belief is that if you put innovation and dramatic amounts of investment in the core product, everything else ends up taking care of itself. And we put our money where our mouth was. You know, we're a private company, so we can be fairly aggressive on the level of investment we put into R&D and it's increased double digit every single year. And I think the results you've seen over the last two years, in terms of our financials is that, you know the market's voting in a way that we're growing double digits dramatically faster than our peers. So that feels pretty good. >> So Jim is, I know, dying to get into the AI piece, but lets work our way up that sort of strategy layer cake with an individual had a lot to do with that. So you know, you guys started with the decision of Micro-verticals and you know the interesting thing to us is you're starting to see some of the big SI's join in. And I always joke, that they love to eat at the trough. But you took a lot of the food away by doing that last mile. >> Yeah. >> But now you're seeing them come in, why is that? >> You know I think the whole industry is evolving. And the roles that different and the valor that different companies in that ecosystem play, whether it's an enterprise software vendor or it's a systems integrator. Everything's changing. I mean, The Cloud was a big part of that. That took away tasks that you would sometimes see a systems integrator doing. As larger companies started to build more completely integrated suites, that took away the notion that you need a systems integrator to plug all those pieces together. And then the last piece for us was all of the modifications that were done to those suites of software to cover off gaps in industry functionality or gaps in localizations for a country, should be done inside the software. And you can only do that if you have a deep focus, by industry on going super, super deep at a rapid rate on covering out what we call these last malfeatures. So that means that the role of the systems integrators shifted. I mean they've obviously pivoted more recently into a digital realm. They've all acquired digital agencies. And having to adapt to this world where you have these suites of software that run in The Cloud that don't need as much integration or as much customization. So we were there you know five, six years ago. They weren't quite there. It was still part of this symbiotic relationship with other large vendors. And I think now, you know, the reason for the first time we've got guys like Accenture, and Deloitte, and Capgemini, and Grant Thornton here, is that they see that. And their business model's evolved. And you know those guys obviously like to be where they can win business and like to build practices around companies they see winning business. So the results we've seen and the growth we've seen over the last two to three years, obviously that's something they want a piece of. So I think it's going to work out. >> Alright so Jim, you're going to have to bear with me a second 'cause I want to keep going up the stack. So the second big milestone decision was AWS. >> Duncan: Yeah. >> And we all understand the benefits of AWS. But there's two sides to that cone and one is, when you show your architectural diagram, there's a lot of AWS in there. There's S3, there's DynamoDB, I think I saw Kinesis in there. I'm sure there's some Ec2 and other things. And it just allows you to focus on what you do best. At the same time, you're getting an increasingly complex data pipeline and ensuring end-to-end performance has to be technically, a real challenge for you. So, I wanted to ask you about that and see if you could comment and how you're managing that. >> Yeah so, I mean obviously, we were one of the first guys to actually go all in on Amazon as a Cloud delivery platform. And obviously others now have followed. But we're still one of their top five ISV's on there. The only company that Amazon reps actually get compensated on. And it's a two way relationship right? We're not just using them as a Cloud delivery partner. We're also using some of their components. You know you talked about some of their data storage components. We're also leverage them for AI which we'll get into in a second. But it's a two way relationship. You know, they run our asset management facility for all of their data centers globally. We do all the design and manufacturing of their drones and robots. We're partnered with them on the logistic side. So it's a deep two way relationship. But to get to your question on just sort of the volume and the integration. We work in integrations with staggering volumes right? I mean, retail, you're dealing with billions and billions of data points. And we'll probably get into that in a second you know. The whole asset management space, is one of the fastest growing applications we have. Driven by cycle dynamics of IoT and explosion in device data and all of that. So we've had for a very, very long time, had to figure out an efficient way to move large amounts of data that can be highly chatty. And do it in an efficient way. And sometimes it's less about the pipes in moving it around, it's how you ingest that data into the right technology from a data storage perspective. Ingest it and then turn it into insights that can power analytics or feed back into our applications to drive execution. Whether it's us predicting maintenance failure on a pump and then feeding that back into asset management to create a work order and schedule an engineer on it. Right? >> That's not a trivial calculus. Okay, now we're starting to get into Jim's wheelhouse, which is, you call it, I think you call it the "Age of Network Intelligence". And that's the GT Nexus acquisition. >> Yeah. >> To us it's all about the data. I think you said 18 years of transaction history there. So, talk about that layer and then we'll really get into the data the burst piece and then of course the AI. >> Yeah, so there were two parts to why we called it "The Age of Network Intelligence". And it's not often that technology or an idea comes along in human history that actually bends the curve of progress right? And I think that we said it on stage, the steam engine was one of those and it lead to the combustion engine, it lead to electricity and it lead to the internet and the mobile phone and it all kind of went. Of course it was invented by a British man, an Englishman you know? That doesn't happen very often right? Where it does that. And our belief is that the rise of networks, coupled with the rise of artificial intelligence, those two things together will have the same impact on society and mankind. And it's bigger than Infor and bigger than enterprise software, it's going to change everything. And it's not going to do it in a linear way. It's going to be exponential. So the network part of that for us, from an Infor perspective was, yes it was about the commerce network, which was GT Nexus, and the belief that almost every process you have inside an enterprise at some point has to leave the enterprise. You have to work with someone else, a supplier or a customer. But ERP's in general, were designed to automate everything inside the four walls. So our belief was that you should extend that and encompass an entire network. And that's obviously what the GT Nexus guys spent 18 years building was this idea of this logistics network and this network where you can actually conduct trade and commerce. They do over 500 billion dollars a year on that network. And we believe, and we've announced this as network CloudSuites, that those two worlds will blur. Right? That ultimately, CloudSuites will run completely nakedly on the network. And that gives you some very, very interesting information models and the parallel we always give is like a Linkedin or a Facebook. On Linkedin, there's one version of the application. Right? There's one information model where everyone's contact information is. Everyone's details about who they are is stored. It's not stored in all these disparate systems that need to be synchronized constantly. Right? It's all in one. And that's the power of GT Nexus and the commerce network, is that we have this one information model for the entire supply chain. And now, when you move the CloudSuite on top of that, it's like this one plus one is five. It's a very, very powerful idea. >> Alright Jim, chime in here, because you and I both excited about the burst when we dug into that a little bit. >> Yes. >> Quite impressed actually. Not lightweight vis, you know? It's not all sort of BI. >> Well the next generation of analytics, decision support analytics that infuse and inform and optimize transactions. In a distributed value chain. And so for the burst is a fairly strong team, you've got Brad Peters who was on the keynote yesterday, and of course did the pre-briefing for the analyst community the day before. I think it's really exciting, the Coleman strategy is really an ongoing initiative of course. First of all, on the competitive front, all of your top competitors in this very, I call it a war of attrition in ERP. SAP, Oracle and Microsoft have all made major investments on going in AI across their portfolios. With a specific focus on informing and infusing their respective ERP offerings. But what I conceived from what Infor's announced with the Coleman strategy, is that yours is far more comprehensive in terms of taking it across your entire portfolio, in a fairly accelerated fashion. I mean, you've already begun to incorporate, Coleman's already embedded in several of your vertical applications. First question I have for you Duncan, as I was looking through all the discussions around Coleman, when will this process be complete in terms of, "Colemanizing", is my term? "Colemanizing" the entire CloudSuite and of course network CloudSuite portfolio. That's a huge portfolio. And it's like you got fresh funding, a lot of it, from Koch industries. To what extent can, at what point in the next year or two, can most Infor customers have the confidence that their cloud applications are "Colemanized"? And then when will, if ever, Coleman AI technology be made available to those customers who are using your premises based software packages? >> So yeah, we could spend a long time talking about this. The thing about Coleman and RAI and machine learning capabilities is that we've been at work on it for a while. And you know we created the dynamic science labs. Our team of 65 Ph.D.'s based up in M.I.T. got over three and a half four years ago. And our differentiation versus all the other guys you mentioned is that, two things, one, we bring a very application-centric view of it. We're not trying to build a horizontal, generic, machine learning platform. In the same way that we- >> Yeah you're not IBM with Watson, all that stuff. >> Yeah, no, no. Or even Auricle. >> Jim: Understood. >> Or Microsoft. >> Jim: Nobody expects you to be. >> No, you know, and we've always been the guys that have worked for the Open Source community. Even when you look at like, we're the first guys to provide a completely open source stack underneath our technology with postscripts. We don't have a dog in the hunt like most of the other guys do. Right? So we tap in to the innovation that happens in the Open Source community. And when you look at all the real innovation that's happening in machine learning, it's happening in the Open Source Community. >> Jim: Yes. >> It's not happening with the old legacy, you know, ERP guys. >> Jim: Pencer, Flow and Spark and all that stuff. >> Yeah, Google, Apple, the GAFA. >> Yeah. >> Right? Google, Apple, Facebook, those are the guys that are doing it. And the academic community is light years ahead on top of that of what these other guys will do. So that's what we tap into right? >> Are you tapping into partners like AWS? 'Cause they've obviously, >> Duncan: Absolutely >> got a huge portfolio of AI. >> Yeah, so we. >> Give us a sense whether you're going to be licensing or co-developing Coleman technologies with them going forward. >> Yeah so we obviously we have NDA's with them, we're deeply inside their development organization in terms of working on things. You know, our science is obviously presented to them around ideas we think they need to go. I mean, we're a customer of their AI frameup to machine learning and we're testing it at scale with specific use cases in industries, right? So we can give them a lot of insights around where it needs to go and problems we're trying to solve. But we do that across a number of different organizations and we've got lots and lots of academic collaborations that happen on around all of the best universities that are pushing on this. We've even received funding from DAPA in certain cases around things that we're trying to solve for. You know quietly we've made some machine-learning acquisitions over the last five, six years. That have obviously brought this capability into it. But the point is we're going to leverage the innovation that happens around these frameworks. And then our job is understanding the industries we're in and that we're an applications company, is to bring it to life in these applications in a seamless way, that solves a very specific problem in an industry, in a powerful and unique way. You know on stage I talked about this idea of bringing this AI first mindset to how we go about doing it. >> So it's important, if I can interject. This is very important. This is Infor IP, the serious R&D that's gone into this. It's innovation. 'Cause you know what your competitors are going to say. They're going to deposition and say, oh, it's Alexa on steroids. But it's not. It's substantial IP and really leveraging a lot of the open source technologies that are out there. >> Yeah. So you know, I talked about there were four components to Coleman, right? And the first part of it was, we can leverage machine-learning services to make the CloudSuites conversational. So they can chat, and talk, and see, and hear, and all of that. And yeah, some of those are going to use the technology that sits behind Alexa. And it's available in AWS's Alexa as you guys know. But that's only really a small part of what we're doing. There are some places where we are looking at using computer vision. For example, automated inspection of car rental returns, is one area. We're using it for quality management pilot at a company that normally has humans inspect something on a production line. That kind of computer-vision, that's not Alexa, right? It's you know, I gave the example of image recognition. Some of it can leverage AWS's framework there. But again, we're always going to look for the best platform and framework out there to solve the specific problem that we're trying to solve. But we don't do it just for the sake of it. We do it with a focus to begin with, with an industry. Like, where's a really big problem we can solve? Or where is there a process that happens inside an application today that if you brought an AI first mindset to it, it's revolutionary. And we use this phrase, "the AI is the UI". And we've got some pretty good analogies there that can help bring it to life. >> And I like your approach for presenting your AI strategy, in terms of the value it delivers your customers, to business. You know, there's this specter out there in the culture that AI's going to automate everybody out of a job. Automation's very much a big part of your strategy but you expressed it well. Automating out those repetitive functions so that human beings, you can augment the productivity of human beings, free them up for more value-added activities and then augment those capabilities through conversational chat box. And so forth, and so on. Provide you know, in-application, in process, in context, decision support with recommendations and all that. I think that's the exact right way to pitch it. One of the things that we focus on and work on in terms of application development, disciplines that are totally fundamental to this new paradigm. Recommendation engines, recommender systems, in line to all application. It's happening, I mean, Coleman, that really in many ways, Coleman will be the silent, well not so silent, but it'll be the recommendation engine embedded inside all of your offerings at some point. At least in terms of the strategy you laid out. >> Yeah, no, absolutely right I mean. It's not just about, we all get hung up on machine-learning and deep learning 'cause it's the sexy part of AI, right? But there's a lot more. I mean, AI, all the way back, you can go all the way back to Socrates and the father of logic right? I mean, some of the things you can do is just based on very complex rules and logic. And what used to be called process automation right? And then it extends all the way to deep learning and neural networks and so on. So one of the things that Coleman also does, is it unifies a lot of this technology. Things that you would normally do for prediction or optimization, and optimization normally is the province of operations research guys right? Which again it's a completely different field. So it unifies all of that into one consistent platform that has all of that capability into it. And then it exposes it in a consistent way through our API architecture. So same thing with bots. People always think chat bots are separate. Well that too is unified inside Coleman. So it's a cohesive platform but again, industry focused. >> What's your point of view on developers? And how do you approach the development community and what's your strategy there? >> Yeah, I mean, it's critical right? So we've always, I mean, hired an incredible number of application engineers every year. I think the first 12 months we were here, we hired 1800 right? 'Cause you know, that's kind of what we do. So we believe hugely in smarts. And it sounds kind of obvious, but experience can be learned, smarts is portable. And we have a lot of programs in place with universities. We call it the Education Alliance Program. And I think we have up to 32 different universities around the world where we're actually influencing curriculum, and actually bringing students right out of there. Using internships during the year and then actually bringing them into our development organization. So we've got a whole pipeline there. I mean that's critical that we have access to those. >> And what about outside your four walls, or virtual walls have been four? Is there a strategy to specifically pursue external developers and open up a PAZ layer? >> Yeah we do. >> Or provide an STK for Coleman for example, for developers. >> Yeah so we did, as part of our Infor Operating Service update. Which is, you know, the name for our unified technology platform. We did announce Mongoose platform was a service. Our Mongoose pass. >> Host: Oh Mongoose, sure. >> So that now is being delivered as a platform with a service for application development. And it's used in two ways. It's used for us to build new applications. It's a very mobile-first type development framework too. And obviously Hook and Loop had a huge influence in how that ships. The neat thing about it, is that it ships with plumbing into ION API, plumbing into our security layer. So customers will use it because it leverages our security model. It's easy to access everything else. But it's also used by our Hook and Loop digital team. So those guys are going off and they're building completely differentiated curated apps for customers. And again, they're using Mongoose. So I think between ION API's and between all the things you get in the Infor Operating Service, and Mongoose, we've got a pretty good story around extensibility and application development. As it relates to an STK for Coleman, we're just working through that now. Again, our number one focus is to build those things into the applications. It's a feature. The way most companies have approached optimization and machine learning historically, is it's a discrete app that you have to license. And it's off to the side and you integrate it in. We don't think that's the right way of doing it. Machine-learning and artificial intelligence, is a platform. It's an enabler. And it fuses and changes every part of the CloudSuite. And we've got a great example on how you can rethink demand forecasting, demand planning. Every, regardless of the industry we serve, everyone has to predict demand right? It's the basis for almost every other decision that happens in the enterprise. And, how much to make, how many nurses to put on staff, all of that, every industry, that prediction of demand. And the thinking there really hasn't changed in 20, 30 years. It really hasn't. And some of that's just because of the constraints with technology. Storage, compute, all of that. Well with the access we have to the elastic super-computing now and the advancements in sort of machine-learning and AI, you can radically rethink all of that, and take what we call and "AI First" approach, which is what we've done with building our brand new demand prediction platform. So the example we gave is, you think about when early music players came along on the internet right? The focus was all around building a gorgeous experience for how to build a playlist. It was drag and drop, I could do it on a phone, I could share it with people and it showed pictures of the album art. But it was all around the usability of making that playlist better. Then guys like Spotify and Pandora came around and it took an AI First approach to it. And the machine builds your playlist. There is no UI. AI is the UI. And it can recommend music I never knew I would've liked. And the way it does that, comes back to the data. Which is why I'm going to circle back to Infor here in a second. Is that, it breaks a song down into hundreds if not thousands of attributes about that song. Sometimes it's done by a human, sometimes it's even done by machine listening algorithms. Then you have something that crawls the web, finds music reviews online, and further augments it with more and more attributes. Then you layer on top of that, user listening activity, thumbs up, thumbs down, play, pause, skip, share, purchase. And you find, at that attribute level, the very lowest level, the true demand drivers of a song. And that's what's powering it right? Just like you see with Netflix for movies and so on. Imagine bringing that same thought process into how you predict demand for items, that you've never promoted before. Never changed the price before. Never put in this store before. Never seen before. >> The cold start problem in billing recommendation areas. >> Exactly right, so, that's what we mean by AI First. It's not about just taking traditional demand planning approaches and making it look sexier and putting it on an iPad right? Rethink it. >> Well it's been awesome to watch. We are out of time. >> Yeah, we're out of time. >> Been awesome to watch the evolution, >> We could go on and on with this yeah. >> of Infor as it's really becoming a data company. And we love having executives like you on. >> Yeah >> You know, super articulate. You got technical chops. Congratulations on the last six years. >> Thanks. >> The sort of quasi-exit you guys had. >> Great show, amazing turnout. >> And look forward to watching the next six to 10. So thanks very much for coming out. >> Brilliant, thank you guys. Alright thank you. >> Alright keep it right there everybody, we'll be back with our next guest, this is Inforum 2017 and this is theCUBE. We'll be right back. (digital music)

(upbeat digital music) >> Announcer: Live, from the Javits Center in New York City, it's theCube, covering Inforum 2017. Brought to you by Infor. >> Welcome to day two of theCube's live coverage of Inforum 2017 here in New York City at the Javits Center. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-hosts, Dave Vellante, and Jim Kobielus, who is the lead analyst at Wikibon for AI. So we're here in day two, fellas. We just heard the keynote. Any thoughts on what your expectations are for today, Jim, and what you're hoping to uncover, or at least get more insight on what we learned already in day one? >> I'd like to have Infor unpack a bit more of the Coleman announcement. I wrote a blog last night that I urge our listeners to check out on wikibon.com. There's a number of unanswered issues in terms of their strategy going forward to incorporate Coleman AI and their technology. You know, I suspect that Infor, like most companies, is working out that strategy as they go along, piece by piece, they've got a good framework then. We have Duncan Angove on right after this segment. Dave and I and you, we'll grill Duncan on that and much more, but that in particular. You know, I mean, AI is great. AI is everybody's secret sauce, now. There's a lot of substance behind what they're doing at Infor that sets them apart from their competitors in the ERP space. I want to go deeper there. >> So, yeah, so I'm looking at the blog right now. But what are the particular questions that you have regarding Coleman, in terms of how it's going to work? >> Yeah, well, first of all, I want to know, do they intend to incorporate Coleman AI in their premises-based software offerings? You know, for, I'm sure the vast majority of their customers want to know when, if ever, they're going to get access to Coleman, number one. Number two is, when are they going to complete the process of incorporating Coleman in their CloudSuite portfolio, which is vast and detailed? And then, really number three, are they going to do all the R&D themselves? I mean, they've got AWS as a major partner. AWS has significant intellectual property in AI. Will they call on others to work with them on co-developing these capabilities? You know, those are, like, the high-level things that I want to get out of today. >> Rebecca: Okay, okay. >> Well, so a couple things. So, I mean, the keynote today was okay. It wasn't, like, mind-blowing. We had customer appreciation, which was great. Alexis, who is from Foot Locker, cube alum was up there, and B of A got customer of the year. I met those guys last night at one of the customer appreciation dinners, so that was kind of cool. They all got plaques, or you know, that's nice, little trophies. I heard a lot about design thinking, and they shared some screen shots, essentially, of this new UI, started talking about AI is the new UI. It was very reminiscent of the conversation that we had in May at the ServiceNow Knowledge conference, where they're bringing consumer-like experience to the enterprise. It's always been something that ServiceNow has focused on, and certainly, Charles Phillips and Hook and Loop have been focused on that. The difference is, quite frankly, that ServiceNow showed an actual demo, got a lot of claps as a result. Infor said this is ready to be tested and downloaded, but they didn't show any demo. So that was sort of like, hmm. >> Jim: They haven't shown any demos. >> Rebecca: Yeah. >> Is it really baked out? Steve Lucas was up there. He killed it, very high energy guy. You know, again, another cube alum. He's been in our studio, and he's an awesome dude. >> Jim: He's awesome. >> And I thought he did a really good job. >> From Marketo. >> Talking about, you know, the whole engagement economy, you know, we think it's going a little bit beyond engagement to more action, and systems of an action, I think, is a term you guys use. >> Systems of agency or enablement, yeah. Bringing more of the IoT into it and robotics and so forth, yeah. >> And then DSW was up there. I said yesterday, "I love DSW." I tweeted out that, you know, the CIO had a picture, Ashlee had a picture of DSW, and I said, "Okay, when the girls and I go to DSW, "I break left, they go middle-right, "we meet at the checkout to negotiate "what actually goes home," so that was good. It was kind of fun. And then a lot of talk about digital transformation. Marc Scibelli was talking about that, and IoT and AI and data. So that's sort of, you know, kind of a summary there. As you know, Rebecca, I've been kind of trying to make the math work on the $2-plus billion investment from Koch. >> Rebecca: Yes, this is your-- >> And the messaging that Infor is putting forth is this is a source of new capital for us, but I'm-- >> Rebecca: You're skeptical. >> You know, as a private company, they have the right not to divulge everything, and they're not on a 90-day shot clock. Charles Phillips, I think, said yesterday, "We're on a 10-year shot clock." I said, "Okay." I think what happened is, so I found, I scanned 10-Qs, and I've been doing so for the last couple of days. There is virtually no information about how much, exactly, of the cash went in and what they're doing with it. And so, I suspect, but there are references to Golden Gate Capital and some of the management team taking some money off the table. Cool, that's good. I'm just, it's unclear to me that there's any debt being retired. I think there is none. And it's unclear to me how much cash there is for the business, so the only reference I was able to find, believe it or not, was on Wikipedia, and it says, "Citation still needed," okay? And the number here, and the math works, is $2.68 billion for 66.6% of the company, and a valuation of $10 billion, which Charles Phillips told us off-camera yesterday, it was $10.5 billion. So you can actually make the math work if you take that $10 billion and subtract off the $6 billion in debt. Then the numbers work, and they get five out of 11 board seats, so they've got about 45% or 49%, I think, is the actual number, you know, voting control of the company. So here's the question. What's next? And now, a couple billion for Koch is nothing. It's like the money in my pocket, I mean, it's really-- >> Rebecca: Right, right, right, the empty, yeah, exactly. >> And I suspect what happened is, 'cause it always says "$2 billion plus." So in squinting through this, my guess is, this is a pure guess, we'll try to confirm this, is that what happened is, Koch provided the additional funding to buy Birst recently. That upped their share to 66%, and maybe that's how Koch is going to operate going forward. When they see opportunities to help invest, they're going to do that. Now, one might say, "Well, that's going to further dilute "the existing Infor shareholders," but who cares, as long as the valuation goes up? And that's the new model of private equity. The old model of private equity is suck as much cash out of the company as possible and leave the carcass for somebody else to deal with. The new model of private equity is to invest selectively, use, essentially, what is a zero-interest loan, that $6 billion debt is like free money for Infor, pay down that debt over time with the cashflow of the company, and then raise the valuation of the company, and then at some point, have some kind of public market exit, and everybody's happy and makes a ton of dough. So, I think that's the new private equity play, and I think it's quite brilliant, actually, but there's not a lot of information. So a lot of this, have to be careful, is speculation on my part. >> Right, right. >> Well, the thing is, will the Coleman plan, initiative raise the valuation of the company in the long term if it's, you know, an attrition war in ERP, and they've got SAP, Oracle, Microsoft, all of whom have deep pockets, deeper than Infor, investing heavily in this stuff? Will Coleman be a net-net, just table stays? >> Well, so I think again, there's a couple ways in the tech business, as you guys know, to make money, and one is to invest in R&D and translate that R&D into commercial products. Some companies are really good at that, some companies aren't so good at that. The other way to make money is to do acquisitions and tuck-ins, and many, many companies have built value doing that, certainly Oracle, certainly IBM has, EMC back in the day, with its VMware acquisition, hit probably the biggest home run ever, and Infor has done a very good job of M&A, and I think, clearly, has raised the value of the company. And the other way is to resell technologies and generate cash and keep your costs low. I think a software company like Infor has the opportunity to innovate, to do tuck-in acquisitions, and to drive software marginal economics, so I think, on paper, that's all good, if, to answer your question, they can differentiate. And their differentiation is the way in which they're embedding AI into their deep, vertical, last-mile approach, and that is unique in the software business. Now, the other big question you have is beautiful UIs, and it sounds really great and looks really great, well, when you talk to the customers, they say, "Yeah, it's a little tough to implement sometimes," so it's still ERP, and ERP is complicated, alright? So, you know, it's not like Infor is shielded from some of the complexities of Oracle and SAP. It might look prettier, they might be moving a little faster in certain areas, they might, they clearly have some differentiation. At the end of the day, it's still complicated enterprise software. >> Right, exactly, and we heard that over and over again from the people, from Infor themselves, and also from customers, is that it isn't seamless. It's complicated, it involves a lot of change management initiatives, people have to be on board, and that's not always easy. >> Well, and that's why I'm encouraged, that to see some of the larger SIs, you know, you see Grant Thornton, Capgemini, I think Accenture's here, Deloitte-- >> Rebecca: We're having Capgemini later on the program. >> Deloitte's coming on as well. And so, those guys, even though I always joke they love to eat at the trough and do big, complex things, but, this is maybe not as lucrative as some of the other businesses, but it's clearly a company with momentum, and some tailwind that, in the context of digital transformations and AI, the big SIs and some of the smaller SIs, you know, like Avaap, that we had on yesterday, can do pretty well and actually help companies and customers add value. >> And with a fellow like Charles Phillips at the helm, I mean, he is just an impressive person who, as you have pointed out multiple times, is a real visionary when it comes to this stuff. >> Yeah, except when he's shooting hoops. He's not impressive on the hoop court, no. >> No? Oh! (laughing) >> I tweeted out last night, "He's got Obama's physique, "but not his hoop game." >> Oh! (laughing) >> So don't hate me for saying that, Charles. But yes, I think he's, first of all, he's a software industry guru. I think he, you know, single-handedly changed, I shouldn't say that, single-handedly, but he catalyzed the major change in the software business when Oracle went on its acquisition spree, and he architected that whole thing. It was interesting to hear his comments yesterday about what he sees. He said, "You'll see a lot more tech industry "CEOs running non-tech-industry companies "because they're all becoming SAS companies." >> If they have been so invested in understanding the vertical, they really get it. You can see someone who worked on a retail vertical here going in and being the CEO of Target or Walmart or something. >> Yes, I thought that was a pretty interesting comment from somebody who's got some chops in that business, and again, very impressive, I mean, the acquisitions that this company has done and continues to do. You and I both like the Birst acquisition. It's modern-day BI, it's not sort of just viz, and I don't mean to deposition Clik and Tableau, they've done a great job, you know, but it's not, it doesn't solve all your enterprise-grade, BI sort of problems. And, you know, you talk to the Cognos customer base, as great of an acquisition as that was for IBM, that is a big, chewy, heavy lift that IBM is trying to inject Watson and Watson Analytics. I mean, you know, you used to work at IBM, Jim. And they're doing a pretty good job of that, improving the UI, but it's still big, chunky, Cognos BI. Build cubes, wait for results. >> Yeah. So in many ways, the Birst acquisition for Infor and their portfolio is a bit like the thematics that IBM's been putting out on HTAP, you know, injecting analytics into transactional processing to make them more agile, and so forth. What I like about the Birst acquisition, vis-a-vis Coleman and where Infor is going, is that the Birst acquisition gives them a really good team, the people who really know analytics and how to drive it into transactional environments such as this. They've got, I mean, ostensibly, a deep fund of capital to fund the Coleman development going forward. Plus, they've got a really strong plan. I think there's potential strong differentiators for Infor, far more comprehensive in their plan to incorporate AI across their portfolio than SAP or Oracle or Microsoft have put out there in public, so I think they're in a good position for growth and innovation. >> Well, we have a lot of great guests coming up today. As you said, Duncan Angove is going to be on, up next. So, I'm Rebecca Knight, for Dave Vellante and Jim Kobielus, we will have more from Inforum just after this. (digital music) (pensive electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live, from the Javits Center in New York City, it's The Cube! Covering Inforum 2017. Brought to you by Infor. >> Welcome back to The Cube's coverage of Inforum, I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. Along with my co-host, Dave Vilante. We are joined by Charles Phillips, the CEO of Infor. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Great to be here. Thank you guys for coming. >> So you're fresh off the keynote. A big deal. Thousands of people here at the Javits Center. What would you say is the most exciting to you about being here and what you really want us participants, attendees to come away with? >> Well, there's a lot of energy at the conference. And people can see the investments we've been making. All the innovation. And just the feedback we're getting is just keep doing what you're doing. You guys just really change the industry. The idea of a network commerce and a network ERP coming together is something new. They like the fact that we kind of find these new areas on our own. People are buzzing about Coleman, our new AI announcement, that platform as well. So it's been fun getting the feedback. >> So talk a little bit about Coleman. Talk about the naming of Coleman. >> Yeah, so it's named after Katherine Coleman Johnson, who is one of the early pioneers in NASA. She was a researcher mathematician there to calculate a lot of the orbital fractions that were needed for reentry. And John Glenn relied on her. And she's in the movie, Hidden Figures. And got to know that movie pretty well, because along with about 30 other African American executives, we raised enough money to send almost 30 thousand kids to see the movie for free. We screened it probably three months before it hit the theaters. And a lot of buzz. We didn't know a lot about it ourselves, so we learned a lot about them. So I was excited to say, if we're going to have an AI platform, why not name it after her? Such a pioneer. And it worked out. Her family was at the event and they were just blown away. And they're asking, can I get copies of everything? And taking pictures with us. So, I thought it was the highlight of the show. >> You know, I liked your first slide today and yesterday in the analysts meeting. It basically was your strategy in a nutshell. Micro verticals was sort of the starting point, the decision to go AWS cloud, The GT Nexus network component, burst analytics and then Coleman AI. Just fit together so nicely and it sounds great. And then you also said, look. Cloud and mobile and social, that's table stakes today. It's really sort of a new ball game. So my question is, you know, the slide's nice. It sounds great. How fully baked is it? >> Yeah, well, we're, I think we're, you know, we've had some time now. We're building the network. And so we've been working on figuring out the right integration points and where the value add was. And so, we're already able to kind of ship things like ASM directly to our ERP. And we showed in context where you can click on the order, an M3, for example, and see where it is on an ocean container. So we've already done a lot of that work. And there's only more to come. We want to, we didn't mention it today, but we want to attack the EDI market and commoditize that and have it be a free service. Because we already have a network. We can ship packets around it. Doesn't cost us anything. And we do that for some customers today. So we have more that we could have talked about that we didn't get to. So a lot of it's real today. >> We also heard at the analysts meeting, in great depth, and a little bit today, you had the CFO of Koch industries up there, made a large $2 billion plus investment. Koch is also a customer. And was a customer prior to the announcement of the investment. How did that all come about? Can you share that sort of story with us? >> Yeah, so we had a very successful project at Georgia Pacific. They brought us in because they were frustrated with SAP. It's too expensive, taking to long. We had the micro vertical reaches that could get going quickly. And we collaborated with them and added a few other things they wanted. So that went very well. And kind of, word travels when you come in under budget. (laughter) And one thing led to another. Made a trip to Wichita at their invite, and hit it off very well with Charles Koch. He understood what we did, he's an MIT grad, very technical. So, wasn't sure what I was kind of getting into. But once I started talking to him, he clearly understood everything else. And the more technical the conversation became, the more animated he got. So, clearly he's our kind of guy. We're product people. And so, we hit it off very well. >> And they're becoming a larger customer. You're getting deeper and deeper into that account. But there's an old saying, you know, God created the world in six days but he didn't have an install base. And so, you guys have emerged as this really viable alternative to SAP and Oracle. But how do you go from where they are to this cloud native platform that you guys have developed? >> Well, it'll be one of the largest global implementations ever. Of any financial project, of any HCM. 130,000 employees, which is great. So a project of that scale, that happens usually top down. When they're invested and ready to go. So they have four members on our board. And including the CFO, including the president of Georgia Pacific, and many other important executives. And so the guys who run the divisions, many of them are on our board and learning this stuff and excited. So they're actually pushing us right now. Which we think is great. We have a weekly cadence call with all these senior execs of all the projects to make sure here's where we are, are you getting what you need, are people responding. I mean, they are driving. These people know how to execute. And that's why they're $115 billion. It's great for us, great for them. They're pushing us. So I'm not too worried about that, given what I've seen so far. >> When you think about the long term strategy of Infor, you're now one of the most well-funded unicorns along with Uber and Air B&B. Where do you go? What do you sort of see as sort of the long term play here? >> Yeah, post world domination? (laughter) Then after that, we have other industries we want to get into. There's a few acquisitions we probably will consider. We want to expand our network. These networks grow up by vertical and by industry. There's a few other vertical we want to get into. But the list of things that we could build and what people are asking us to build is almost endless. You know? And they like the way we do these kind of digital transformation projects. There's lots of those out there. And so, we just want to make sure we have the ecosystem where we can implement. That's why it's so important to get a censure, Cap Jim and I, and Grant Thorton and Deloit, they're all taking training as we speak. Filling out their practices. Which we didn't have a year ago. So, that was our kind of constraint to scaling. We just couldn't take on so many projects. But now we can. >> I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the structure of the industry, the software industry specifically. I mean, you're fairly famous for having sort of predicted consolidation, and then orchestrating that consolidation. Mark Andreson's famous for saying software's eating the world. I think Bennioff said there's going to be more non tech companies that are SAS companies than tech companies. Do you expect we'll just see a sort of de-consolidation of software? Or maybe a bi frication? Where maybe some of the enterprise guys acquire, but there's all these burgeoning, blooming flowers of software companies emerging. What's your point of view on the software industry and its structure? >> I think you'll see more industrial companies wanting to own software. I think you'll see software executives running non software companies. Most companies think they have to get digital. And a lot of the board of directors recognize that and recognize they don't have the expertise to do that. And so a lot of software executives get asked to run non tech companies for that reason. Because you can learn retail faster than they can learn how to program. And if you've been building the applications for those verticals, you actually kind of know the vertical pretty well. So I think you'll see some of these domains over time where people have to become more technology fluent. And the way to do that is to bring in tech people. >> The other thing I wanted to ask you sort of as a follow up on that, you see Amazon buys Whole Foods and is getting into grocery, they're a content company. Apple's get the financial services. And you know it's because of digital. It allows you to sort of jump industry value chains. But for decades, people just stay within their own little value chain silo. Do you expect that to change as well? Where executives are able to traverse industries? >> I think so. Technology is causing that. There's enough disruption and fear where people are willing to consider something completely different than they were before. And that helps us, because usually we need someone to either take an action because they see an opportunity or because they're worried about getting disrupted. That's how these big projects get started. That's part of the reason why our growth is so good right now. >> Is that's what's driving it? Is it the fear of being left behind? >> It's probably equal amount of both. They see opportunity, I should be doing something, but I don't know what. So we have to tell them the what. Or, I'm worried about what everybody else is doing. I don't want to get Ubered out. And we tell them how not to be in that position. So we're getting an audience at senior levels that we couldn't before. Just because it's top of mind for everybody. >> How about, talk about MNA a little bit. And what you look for in an acquisition candidate. You have a platform, that's probably dogmatic about running on that platform. But talk a little but more about what you look for. >> We usually want next generation thinking in a technical platform that we don't have to completely rewrite. Because we don't to kind of pollute our architecture. If it's a modern architecture where we can graph it on to our information OS, as we call it, that's fine. So we don't buy things just for scale. And that was kind of early strategy for the company 10 or 15 years ago. We buy things because it's a specific value proposition for customers or fills a hole we think we need to fill. >> Okay. >> I would rather buy something that is small, maybe not much traction, not much revenue, but a great product. Because we have a huge distribution channel and we can grow it pretty quickly. We can fix all those other problems if the product is there. >> Well, the burst acquisition is very interesting because you saw the ascendancy we were talking about earlier, Rebecca. Saw the ascendancy of tableau, and Christian Chabeau, very articulate, would talk about the slow BI companies and really de positioning them. You're positioning is actually quite compelling. Not the old, takes forever to build a cube. And not the lightweight version of just a visualization. You're sort of the best of both worlds. Maybe unpack that a little bit. >> Yeah, that's the attractions we saw in Berson's. You need some of those enterprise features to understand fragmented and enterprise scale data. That's a hard problem. Having a nice desktop tool that can only handle a single table or gives you conflicting information so you can't have any semantic meaning across different data sources. It's nice to get answers quickly, but if they're wrong, that doesn't help you. So, we need somebody who could handle the back end. Our customers were asking us to do that. They want us to be the analytic layer, a system of record for analytics, because other companies don't want to do that. SAP or Oracle will say, just use all my stuff. I don't want to connect to anybody else. And we know that we have to coexist. And if we can build that analytic layer, we think that's strategic high ground. Let's own that. And if we can replace some of the underlying systems later, great. You know? >> I was just going to talk about, I was going to switch gears entirely and talk a little bit about politics. Before the cameras were rolling, you were on Obama's economic recovery board, which was led by Paul Volker. You've been to Washington, met with Trump, met with Pence. I'm curious about how you view the roll of business in advising government. In which directions to take, and the approach. >> I think it's increasingly important in a sense that, especially with the current administration, they should respect business opinion. Because he's a business guy. Secondly, so many of our institutions people don't trust any more. THey've kind of lost some of that credibility. I hope we can turn that around. But in the interim, we have to have other people who can fill in for some of that. And, especially tech companies. People want to know what tech companies think. And so, I think we almost have a duty to try to fill in some of that. And every part of the economy and the government has been effected by technology. They want to understand it. We can help them do that. >> And so many of your customers are in fact municipalities, and cities, and public school systems. >> That's a good point. We have 1500 state and local governments and federal customers. And that's a fast growing part of our business right now. And we're rooting a lot of federal agencies as we speak. Because they're going through an upgrade cycle as well. Something called Fed Round they have to get certified in. And they want to move to the cloud. And we're doing both of those with them. >> Now, you also talked about how you see technology executives perhaps moving into other industries. Do you see them also moving into public service? Do you see that as a possibility? >> That's going to take longer. That's probably later in their careers because of the economics of that. But every now and then, you'll see one do it, yeah. >> So, a question on cloud. It was almost by necessity, I would argue, that you gravitated toward AWS. Smart move. Others have said, you know, Oracle in particular, we're going to own the whole stack. We can make a lot of money owning the whole stack. If you had to do it again, would you pursue that same strategy, and why? >> Well, when we got there, the company was just trying to build a cloud business. We were doing it traditional. Trying to own data centers and, you know, doing data sharing. We could have done that and continued with that over time. But I just thought it wouldn't provide the elastic compute and the scale of data management that I thought was coming. We looked at all the platforms that we out there at the time. We met with Microsoft, IBM, you name it. And at the time, AWS was just so much further along in terms of services available, capabilities, entrepreneurial spirit, scale, it wasn't even close. In our minds, anyway. And so, they were great partners to work with. For us, it's been the right decision. They've helped us a lot. >> Yeah, and seeing your arc as maybe a question. But you're pretty technical. Maybe a better question for Duncan or Soma, but I'll ask you. Because you're more technical than I am. When you look at your architecture slides, there's a lot of Amazon in there. >> There is, yeah. >> There's like this dynamo dv, looks like some kineses, there's S3, there's all kinds of flywheel oriented tech. I wonder if you could sort of elaborate on that in terms of the impact that that has not only on you, but ultimately on your customers. >> Yeah, no. That was by design, by my direction. I wanted to take advantage of every single serviture we could on AWS. Because every time we do that, that's less work for my developers. I don't want them to worried about infrastructure. Just write the application and be an industry expert. So any time they come out with a new service, you name it. Whether it's Promethium, archiving, backup. We were one of the early customers of RedShip. We take advantage of it. Because it's cheaper for us to do it that way and we get the scale that we need. And we get it in multiple countries. So when any other strategy than that, we have to replicate things in multiple places and we have to figure out how to make it work on AWS. >> And I know we're limited on time, but if software's eating the world, software's going to eat the edge. So talk about your edge strategy. >> Well, it depends on what you mean by edge strategy. I think that software eating the world is true. Maybe it's helping the world, is a better way to put it. But almost every product that we see its inside of now. That's actually good for us, being the largest vendor for asset management. Every IOT company is coming to us because all that data is meaningless unless you can generate a work order or requisition and get something fixed, schedule someone to come. That's what we do. So all of that data needs to end up on a repository. That can effect the business process. And we own that business process. >> Well, something that we've said on the Cube since the early days of so-called big data is the practitioners of big data are the guys who are going to do well. It's not necessarily the guys selling big data infrastructure. And that's proven true. You guys never talked ever, I don't think, about big data. But you're a data company now, first. >> Yeah, and we've collected a lot more data than we ever thought we would. And so, now we've got to figure out how to use that. >> How to parse it, how to use it. >> Exactly. Which is why we added the next two layers of that stack. >> That will be next year's summit. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Next year's Inforum. Well, Charles Phillips, thanks so much for joining us. It was a pleasure. >> Great. Thanks you guys. >> See ya, thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for Dave Valante, we will have more from the Cube's coverage of Inforum after this. (upbeat music)