from the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston it's the cube covering the IBM thing brought to you by IBM we're back this is the cubes coverage of the IBM think 20/20 digital experience my name is Dave Volante is a wall-to-wall coverage over the multi-day event Harish promise here he's the general manager of the IBM public cloud rishi welcome back to the cube good to see you sorry we're not face to face but this will do yeah thank you great to see you again as well and you know it is the times what do you do you know I want to start by asking you you did a stint at a large bank I'd love to talk to you about that but but I want to stay focused you said last year on the cube you can't do everything in the public cloud certain things need to remain on Prem I'm interested in how your experience at the large financial institution and your experience generally working with you know your colleagues in in the banking industry how that shaped your vision of the IBM public cloud yeah I think that's a great question you know if you think about trying to transform yourself to a public cloud a lot of people what they try to do is you know they take applications that I've been running their enterprise and they try to redo them in its entirety with micro services using as level services I mean trying to put it all up in the public cloud now you know just think about some of these applications that are running your large institution right some of them will have regulatory ruled around it some of them have latency requirements or low latency requirements I should say some of them need to be close to the back end because that's where the data is so for all these reasons you know you have to think about a holistic cloud picture of which public cloud is you know integral to it but some of the things will need to remain on Prem right so when I build my public cloud out for IBM I kind of keep those in in the back of my mind as I get the team to work on it to ensure that we have the right capabilities on the public cloud and then where it makes sense you know have the right capabilities on the hybrid side as well working with my colleagues in IBM well you know the doc Ovid 19 pandemic that we've been talking to a lot of CISOs and CIOs we had a couple of roundtables with our data partner ETR and it was interesting you know organizations that maybe wouldn't have considered the cloud certainly as aggressively maybe they put some test dev in the cloud but you know have said well we're really reconsidering that one CIO actually said you know I'd love to delete my data center but but to your point you can't just delete the data center um first of all you don't want to necessarily move stuff second of all we've got a lot of experience from a consulting standpoint looking at this if you have to migrate migrates like an evil word especially with mission critical systems if you have to freeze code and you can't upgrade you know for some number of months you may be out of compliance or you're not remaining competitive so you have to really be circumspect and thoughtful with regard to what you do move I wonder if you could comment on that no I completely agree with what you're saying you know if you think about to your point right with Kovac things that really changed I've been speaking with a lot of cloud transformers I would say you know in the various industries but specifically with banks as well and the cloud leader for one of the large European banks said to me he said this was amazing because for four years he's been trying to get his he shows organization and risk and compliance etc to get their heads around moving applications to the cloud and he said that you know one month of kovat and having everyone locked down and home has been able to unblock more than what he's tried in the last four years so that's telling in itself right so look you know I've been working on public clouds for a good long time now both from a provider side as well as a consumer side and while you know you certainly just can't close your data centers that are running your large enterprise overnight you certainly can take a lot of stuff over there and move it to the public cloud in a meaningful fashion where you're able to take the pieces that really iterate more rapidly where you can get the end while keeping your data safe and you know being able to connect back into your back-end systems which will run a lot of your large processes in your enterprise as well so I think there is a balance to be had here and people especially banks I would say haven't been moving so much to the public cloud and I think this is the time where they're starting to realize that there is a time and place for a bunch of applications that can safely move and that gives them the agility and the productivity while everyone's locked at home and I think that's the eye opening so I'd love to have a frank conversation about why the IBM cloud I mean you know you got the the big guys you know Amazon Microsoft and Google maybe not as large people put them sort of in a category of hyper scalars great fair enough that people oftentimes dismiss you know the IBM public cloud however your point that you just made is critical and Ginni Rometty you was the first to kind of make this point Arvin's picked up on it that 80% of the workloads still are on trem and and it's that hard to move stuff that hasn't moved so and that's kind of IBM's wheelhouse I mean let's face it that the hard stuff it's the mission-critical you're kind of running the the banks and the insurance companies and the manufacturers and airlines around the world so what's the what's the case for the IBM cloud why the IBM cloud and why even move that stuff why not just leave it where it is yeah so I think there's a couple of answers here right one of them is the fact that when you talk to the hyper scalars and by the way I can't stress enough or a hyper scaler as well right people have taken a look at iCloud from about two plus years ago which you know at which point in time we were not but we certainly are and we can provision via size and so on and so forth as best as the best guys can so I want to just get that out of the way but to your point you know the reason why you would consider the IBM public cloud is when you talk to the other people they come at it from a very narrow perspective right they think about you know use vs is on x86 using cloud native pass services now you know I want to stress again that we do all three of those things extremely well but if you think about how large enterprises work nothing is as clean as that I did say there is a lot of applications that I've been running your institution that you can just willingly rewrite and then you have bare metal you'll have power systems whether it's AIX or I you'll have some Z in there Z Linux in there and then there's containers and then there's the VMware stack and there's containers running on bare metal containers running on vsi containers running on you know the VMware stack as well as the other architectures that I mentioned so we really meet our customers where they are in their journey and we give them a wide variety of capabilities and choices and flexibility to do their applications on the public cloud and that's what we mean by saying our cloud is enterprise ready as opposed to the nano answer of you'll do everything with vs is x86 and a service yeah I like that and I want to I want to circle back on that thank you for clarifying that point about hyper skills having said that it I've often said and I wonder if you could confirm or deny it's not IBM strategy to go head-to-head on cost per bit even though you you will you'll price it very competitively but your your game is to add value in other ways through your your very large software portfolio through AI things like blockchain and differentiable services that you can layer on top I've often made the point I think a lot of people don't understand that that insulates IBM from a race to the bottom with the alcohol traditional a cloud suppliers I wonder if you could comment yeah you know so I have to stress the point that just because I talk about all our other distinguishing capabilities that people don't walk away with the impression that we don't do what any of the other large cloud service providers do you know to your point we have AI we have IOT we've got a hundred ninety API driven cloud native pass services where you can write a cloud native application just like you build on the hyper scale other hyper scalars as well right so we give nothing away but for us the true value proposition here is to give you all of those capabilities in a very secure environment you know whether it is the fact that we are the only cloud where we don't have access to your data or your code because we have a keep your own key mechanism where we as a cloud service provider have no access to your key nobody else can say that so it is those Enterprise qualities of service and security that we bring to the table and the other architectures and the other you know constructs around bare metal and containers etc that distinguishes us further right and that's how it really so these are really important points that you're making and I know I'm kind of bringing out probably parts of the landscape that IBM generally doesn't want to talk about but I think it's important again to have that frank conversation because I think a lot of people misunderstand IBM is in the cloud game not only in the cloud game to your point but has very competitive you know from an infrastructure standpoint so many companies in the last decade we saw HP tried to get in they exited very quickly Joe to cheese's the CEO of EMC said we will be in the cloud you know they're buying mozi and you know exiting that so Dell right now doesn't you know it won't have a cloud play VMware tried to get in and now its course big partner of yours so you got in and that to me is critical just in terms of positioning for the next decade and beyond and and the other piece of differentiation that I want to drill into is the financial services cloud so what is that you obviously have a strong background there let's let's dig into that a little bit yeah if you look at the way most banks or actually every bank uses a public cloud is they build guardrail right they build guardrails from where their data center ends to where the public cloud begins but once you get into the public cloud then it really depends on the security that the cloud service providers provide and the csps will tell you that they have a lot of secure mechanisms there but if you ever speak with a bang you know they will never put their highly confidential data bearing apps with PII on a public cloud because they don't feel that the security that the cloud service providers provide is good enough for them to be able to put it there safely number one and number two prove to their regulators that they are in fact and compliant so what we've done is we work with a Bank of America and now you know a whole bunch of other banks that I'm not allowed to mention by name as yet where we're building a series of controls right these are both controls during your dev Sakharov cycle when you're building your app and another 400-plus controlled and the runtime that allow you is the bank to securely take your apps that have highly confidential data in III and put it on the public cloud and will give you the right things whether it's the isolation of the control plane and the data plane or it's their data loss prevention mechanisms the right auditing points the right logging points the right monitoring points the right reporting data sovereignty so we have controls built into the cloud that enable you to do all of this now banks will be quick to tell you that the onus of proof is on them alone to the regulators and we can claim that for them and they're absolutely right but today they spend hundreds of millions of dollars collecting all of that in providing that proof to the regulators you use our cloud we automate a whole bunch of that so you're not number one as a bank trying to implement these controls on a public cloud because that's not your job that's not your core expertise and number two when you actually build these compliance report you spending you know millions and millions of dollars trying to put it together whether compliance regulator will say yes this is okay we automate a large part of that for you and I think that's the key is the key issue we're solving you I want to follow up and just make sure I understand it is when I talk to executives in the financial services industry and other industries those they'll say things like look it's not that the cloud security is is bad it's just that I can't map the edicts of my organization into it certainly easily or even at all because I'm getting a sort of standard set of capabilities and it may not fit with what I need what I'm what I what I'm hearing is that IBM you know you guys are enterprise-c you used the specials but but so that's part of it but you also said you know they feel sometimes the cloud is that the security is not good enough and I want to understand what that is specifically if IBM is doing something differently so two things there one is your willingness whether it's auditability transparency mapping to corporate edicts and it may be other things that you're doing that make it better relative to go together yeah absolutely so one of the things is as I mentioned it's the mechanisms like keep your own key which is fundamental to building some of these compliance safeguards in but the the fundamental different thing we've done here is we work with the Bank of America and we've defined these controls to use your language that maps to their edicts right which should map to every banks edicts no you know there'll be a couple of extra controls here or there but largely they're all regulated by the same regulator so what satisfies one bang for the most part satisfies every other bank of the US as well right and so specifically what we've done is we've built those controls whether they are preventative controls or compensating controls in the CI CD pipeline as well as in the runtime on the cloud and that gives them a path to automation to produce the right results and the right reports to their auditors and that's really what we've helped them do so I know I'm pushing you here a little bit I'm gonna keep pushing if that's okay I was a great conversation when when IBM completed the acquisition of Red Hat you know the marketing was all about cloud cloud cloud and I came out and said yeah okay fine but what it's really about is application modernization that's the near-term opportunity for IBM you certainly saw that in the last earnings report where I think you're working with a hundred plus you know clients in terms of their application modernization so I said that is the way in which this thing becomes a creative which by the way it's already a creative and from a cash cash flow standpoint but but but but I'm gonna press you on on the cloud piece so talk about Red Hat and why it is cloud in terms of a cloud play yeah so you know this is the power of Red Hat and the IBM public cloud and of course Red Hat works or the other cloud print service providers as well so if you think about modernizing your application you know the industry pretty much has standardized around containers right as the best way to modernize their applications and those containers are orchestrated by kubernetes that's the orchestrator that's basically won the battle and Red Hat has OpenShift which is a industry-leading capability you know it's a coupon IDs control plane that manages containers and we from IBM we've put our content we've read backer a content into containers and we've made it run on an open ship and we have a cloud managed open ship server on the IBM public cloud as well as an on-prem that really helps bring our content to people who are trying to modernize their applications now think about an application that most people try to modernize you know the rough rule of thumb about 20 to 25 percent of it there's application code that is the onus is on the client to go and modernize that and they've chosen containers and turbidities and the other 75 to 80% arguably is middleware that they've got right and we've really tected in refactor that middleware into containers managed by open ship and we've done 80% of the work for them so that's how this whole thing comes together and you can run that on Prem you can run it on the IBM public cloud and I give you a cloud managed openshift service to do that effectively honor so that's interesting yeah that's very interesting I think there are you know probably at least three sort of foundational platforms one is obviously easy mainframe it's still much of IBM's customer base you know the tied to the Z and it drives all kinds of other software and so what the second is middleware to your point and you're saying you refactored and I think the third really is your choice of hybrid cloud strategy you kind of made the point you threw an on-prem it's to me it's that end-to-end that's your opportunity and your challenge if you can show people that look we've got this cloud-like experience of from cloud all the way to RM multi clouds that is a winning strategy it's jump ball right now nobody really owns that space and I think IBM's intent is to try to go after that I think you've called it a trillion-dollar market opportunity and it's obviously growing yes that's exactly right and the P spot so that I've been describing to you the you know the way people modernize our applications all fit very nicely into that now if you speak with the analysts they're going towards a whole different category called distributed cloud which basically means you know how do you bring these capabilities that run on your public cloud do on-prem and do other people's clouds and you know what I hinted at here is that's exactly where we're going with our set of capabilities and that is a technical journey I mean kubernetes is necessary but insufficient condition to have that sort of Nirvana of this distributed massive distributed system bring in edge edge systems as well so this is a you know at least a multi-year maybe even a decade-long journey there's a lot of work to be done there what would you say are their strategic imperatives for IBM cloud over the next several years so I think for us really it is you know building on this notion of the distributed cloud as I talked about it is you know fully building out the FSS cloud most of which we've already done and you know some of these things will never be at end of job because regulations keep changing and you keep adding to it and so you have to keep adding to it as well so a focus on FSS to begin with but then also to other industries as well right because there are other regulated industries here that can benefit from the same kind of automation that we're doing for FSS so we'll certainly do that and we're in a good position because it's not only our technology but it's our services practice it's a premonitory that deals with regulators etc so we have the whole package so we want to continue to build out on that branch into other industry verticals using our industry expertise across the board services product everything and then of course you know if there's one thing I BM has market permission for it is understanding the enterprise and building a secure product so we clearly want to evolve on that as well the IBM is a lot of arrows in its quiver including as we discuss cloud you know you just got to get her done as they say so iris thanks so much for coming to the cute great discussion appreciate your your transparency and and stay well Thank You YouTube thank you so much re welcome and thank you for watching everybody this is the cubes coverage of the IBM pink 2020 digital event experience we'll be right back right after this short break [Music]

>> Live from San Francisco. It's the cube covering IBM thing twenty nineteen brought to you by IBM. >> Hello and welcome back to the Cubes. Live coverage here and savor still were alive for IBM. Think twenty nineteen. The Cubes Exclusive contract. Jon for a stimulant in our next two guests of the Cloud gurus and IBM and VM Where A. J. Patel senior vice president general manager Cloud Providers Software Business Unit. Good to see you again. Baron. Scram A general manager. IBM Cloud Guys. Thanks for Spend the time. Get to the cloud gurus. Get it? They're having What's going on? Having privilege. Osti Cloud's been around. We've seen the public Cloud Momentum hybrid Certainly been around for a while. Multi clouds of big conversation. People are having role of data that is super important. Aye, aye, anywhere you guys, an IBM have announced because I've been on this. I'm on >> a journey or a >> library for awhile. On premise. It was on VM, where all the good stuff's happening. This the customers customers want this talk about the relationship you guys have with IBM. >> You know, the broad of'em were IBM relationship over nine, ten years old. I had the privilege of being part of the cloud the last couple years. The momentum is amazing. Over seventeen hundred plus customers and the Enterprise customers, not your you know, one node trial customer. These are really mission critical enterprise customers using this at that scale, and the number one thing we hear from customers is make it easy for me to leverage Plowed right, operate in the world when I'm using my own prim and my public cloud assets make it seamless, and this is really what we've talked about a lot, right? How do we provide that ubiquitous digital platform for them to operate in this hybrid world? And we're privileged to have IBM Of the great partner in this journey >> are some of the IBM cloud, Ginny Rometty said on CNBC this morning. We saw the interview with my friend John Ford over there. Aye, aye. Anywhere means going run on any cloud. Watson with containers. That's cloud DNA. Sitting the cloud with good Burnett ease and containers is changing the game. Now you can run a lot of things everywhere. This's what customers want. End to end from on. Premise to wherever. How has that changed the IBM cloud posture? Its products? You share a little bit of that. >> You absolutely so look I mean, people have their data in different places, and as you know, it's a really expensive to move stuff around. You gotta make sure it's safe, etcetera, So we want to take our applications and run them against the data wherever they are right? And when you think about today's landscape in the cloud industry, I think it's a perfect storm, a good, perfect storm and that containers and Kubernetes, you know, everyone's rallying around at the ecosystem that consumers, the providers. And it just makes us easy for us to take that capability and really make it available on multicloud. And that's what we're doing. >> to talk about your joint customers. Because the BM where has a lot of operators running, running virtually change? For a long time, you guys have been big supporters of that and open source that really grew that whole generation that was seeing with cloud talk about your customers, your mo mentum, Howyou, guys air, just ballpark. How many customers you guys have together? And what if some of the things that they're doing >> all right? So I know this is a really interesting story. I was actually away from IBM for just over two years. But one of the last things I did when I was an IBM the first time around was actually start this Veum where partnership and seated the team that did it. So coming back, it's really interesting to see the uptake it's had, You know, we've got, like, seven hundred customers together over seventeen hundred customers. Together, we've moved tens of thousands of'em workloads, and as I just said, we've done it in a mission. Critical fashion across multiple zones across multiple regions. On now, you know, we want to take it to the next level. We want to make sure that these people that have moved their basic infrastructure and the mission critical infrastructure across the public cloud can extend those applications by leveraging the cloud near application that we have on our cloud. Plus, we want to make it possible for them to move their workloads to other parts of the IBM ecosystem in terms of our capabilities. >> Any one of the things we found was the notion of modernizer infrastructure, first lift and then transform. He's starting to materialize, and we used to talk about this has really the way the best way to use, cowed or use hybrid cloud was start by just uplifting your infrastructure and whether it's west back, you ask for some customers. I respect a great example. I think that we're talking about it in the Parisian. I joined presentation tomorrow or you look at, you know, Kaiser, who's going to be on stage tomorrow? We're seeing industries across the board are saying, You know, I have a lot of complexity sitting on aging hardware, older versions of infrastructure software. How do I modernize A platform first lifted, shifted to leverage a cloud. And then I could transform my application using more and more portable service that'S covering decides to provide a kind of infrastructure portability. But what about my data, Right. What about if I could run my application with the data? So I think we're starting to see the securing of the use of cloud based on workloads and averaging that's that's >> Yeah, a J. What wonder if we could dig a little love level deeper on that? Because, you know, I think backto, you know, fifteen years or so ago, it was bm where allowed me to not have to worry about my infrastructure. My, you know OS in my you know, server that I was running on might be going end of life. Well, let me shove it in a V M. And then I couldn't stand the life, and then I can manage how that happens. Course. The critique I would have is maybe it's time to update that that application anyway, so I like the message that you're saying about Okay, let me get a to a process where I'm a little bit freer of where, and then I can do the hard work of updating that data. Updating that application, you know, help us understand. >> It's no longer about just unlocking the compute right, which was worth trying the server. It's What about my network we talked about earlier? Do I need a suffered If our network well, the reality is, everything is going programmable. If you want a program of infrastructure, it's compute network storage all software defined. So the building block for us is a suffer to find data center running on the infrastructure that IBM pride sixty plus data centers bare metal at Scholastic and then leering that with IBM cloud private, whether it's hosted or on premise, fear gives you that full stack that nirvana, the people talk about supportable stack going, talk about >> right and adding to what he said, right? You said, You know, it's not about just moving your old stuff to the to the cloud. Absolutely. So as I said in one of the earlier conversations that we have, we had is we have a whole wealth of new services, whether it's Blockchain R. I o. T or the that used. You spoke about leveraging those capabilities to further extend your app and give it a new lease of life to provide new insights is what it's all about. >> What? Well, that that that's great, because it's one thing to just say, Okay, I get it there. Can I get better utilization? Is that change my pricing? But it's the services, and that's kind of the promise of the cloud is, you know, if I built something in my environment, that's great and I can update and I can get updates. But if I put it in your environment, you can help manage some of those things as well as I should have access to all of these services. IBM's got a broad ecosystem can you give us? You know what are some of the low hanging fruit is to people when they get there, that they're unlocking data that they're using things like a I What? What What are some of the most prevalent services that people are adding when they go to the IBM clouds? >> So when you look at people who first moved their work list of the cloud, typically they tend to dip their toe in the water. They take what's running on Prem. They used the IRS capabilities in the cloud and start to move it there. But the real innovation really starts to happen further up the stock, so to speak. The platform is a service, things like a II OT blocked and all the things that I mentioned, eso es very natural. Next movement is to start to modernize those applications and add to it. Capability is that it could never have before because, you know it was built in a monolith and it was on prim, and it was kind of stuck there. So now the composition that the cloud gives you with all of these rich services where innovation happens first, that is the real benefit to our customers. >> Every she said, you took a little hiatus from IBM and went out outside IBM. Where did you go and what did you learn? What was that? Goldman Jack. JP Morgan, Where were you? >> So it was a large bank. You know, I'm not not allowed to say the name of the bank. >> One of those two. It >> was a large bank on, and it wasn't the U S. So that narrows down the field. Some >> What is it like to go outside? They'll come inside. U C Davis for cutting edge bank. Now you got IBM Cloud. You feel good about where things are. >> Yeah. You know, if you look at what a lot of these banks are trying to do, they start to attack the cloud journey saying we're going to take everything that ran in the bank for years and years and years. And we're going to, you know, make them micro services and put them all on public cloud. And that's when you really hit the eighty twenty percent problem because you've got a large monolith that don't lend themselves to be re factored and moved out. Tio, eh, Public cloud. So you know again, Enter communities and containers, etcetera. These allow you a way to modernize your applications where you can either deploy those containerized You know, piers you go type models on prim or on public. And if you have a rich enough set of services both on Prem in on the public loud, you can pretty much decide how much of it runs on Trevor's is becoming much more clouds >> moment choice. So really, it's finding deployment. So basically, what you're saying is that we get this right. I want to get your reaction. This You don't have to kill the old to bring in the new containers and Cooper netease and now service measures around the corner. You can bring in new work clothes, take advantage of the cutting edge technology and manage your life cycle of the work loads on the old side or it just can play along. I >> think what we're finding is, you know, we moved from hybrid being a destination to an operating model, and it's no longer about doing this at scale like my multi clark. Any given applications tied to a cloud or destination? It's a late binding decision, but as an aggregate. I may be amusing multiple close, right. So that more model we're moving to is really about a loving developer. Super your workload centric and services centric to see Where do I want to run in Africa? >> Okay, what one of the challenges with multi cloud is their skill sets. I need to worry about it. It can be complex. I want to touch on three points and love to get both your viewpoints, networking, security and management. How do we help tackle that? Make that simple >> right off customers? >> Yeah, sure. So you know, I think when you think about clouds, public clouds especially it's beyond your data center and the mindset out there as if it's beyond my data center. It can be safe. But when you start to build those constructs in the modern era, you really do take care of a lot of things that perhaps you're on Prem pieces that not take into consideration when they were built like many decades ago. Right? So with the IBM public Cloud, for example, you know, security's at the heart of it. We have a leadership position. There was one of the things that we've announced is people keep protect for not only Veum, where workload visa and we sphere etcetera, but also for other applications making use off our public cloud services. Then, when you talk about our Z, you know we have a hardware as security model, which is fifty one forty, level two or dash to level four, which nobody else in the industry has. So when you put your key in there on ly, the customer can take it out, not him. Azaz clouds of his providers can touch it. It will basically disintegrate, you know, sort of speak >> H ey. Talk about VM wears customer base inside the IBM ecosystem. What's new? What should they pay attention to? As you guys continue the momentum. >> So I think if you look at the last two years, it's been around what we call these larger enterprise. Dedicated clouds. Exciting thing in the horizon is we're adding a multi tenant IRS on top of this BM, we're dedicated. So being able to provide that Brett off access thing with dedicated multi tenant public out I, as fully programmable, allows us to go downmarket. So expect the customer kind of go up being able to consume it on a pay as you go basis leveraging kind of multi tenant with dedicated, but it's highly secure or for depth test. So are the use cases kind of joke. We're going to see a much larger sort of use cases that I'm most excited about >> is the bottom line. Bottom line me. I'm the customer. Bottom line me. What's in it for me? What I got >> for the customers with a safest choice, right? It's the mission critical secure cloud. You can now run the same application on Prem in a dedicated environment in public, Claude on IBM or in a multi tenant >> world. And on the Klaxon match on the cloud sign. I could take advantage of all the things you have and take advantage of that. Watson A. I think that Rob Thomas has been talking about Oh yeah, >> absolutely. And again. You know the way that we built I c P forty, which is IBM plowed private for data. You know, it's all containerized. It's orchestrated by Coop, so you can not only build it. You can either run it on crime. You can run it on our public loud or you can run it on other people's public clouds as well >> nourished for customers and for people. They're looking at IBM Cloud and re evaluating you guys now again saying Or for the first time, what should they look at? Cloud private? What key thing would you point someone to look at, IBM? They were going to inspect your cloud offering >> so again, and it's back to my story in the bank. Right? It's, uh you can't do everything in the public cloud, right? There are just certain things that need to remain on creme On. We'll be so for the foreseeable future. So when you take a look at our hybrid story, the fact that it is has a consistent based on which it is built on. It is a industry standard open source base. You know, you build your application to suit the needs of an application, right? Is it low lately? See, Put it on. Crim. You need some cloud Native services. Put it on the public cloud. Do you need to be near your data that lives on somebody else's cloud? Go put it on their cloud. Right. So it really is not a one. Size fits all its whatever your business >> customer where he is, right? That's often >> the way flexibility, choice, flexibility. Enjoy the store for all things cloud. >> Yeah, last thing I want to ask is where to developers fit in tow this joint Solucion >> es O. So I think the biggest thing is that's trying to change for us is making these services available in a portable manner. When do I couldn't lock into the public cloud service with particular data and unlocking that from the infrastructures will be a key trend. So for us, it's about staying true to Coburn eddies and upstream with the distribution. So it's portable for wanting more and more services and making it easy for them to access a catalogue of services on a bagel manner but then making operation a viable. So then you're deployed. You can support the day two operations that are needed. So it's a full life cycle with developers not having to worry about the heavy burden of running an operating. What >> exactly? You know, it's all about the developers. As you well know in the cloud world, the developer is the operator. So as long as you can give him or her, the right set of tools to do C. I C. Dev ops on DH get things out there in a consistent fashion, whether it is on a tram or a public cloud. I think it's a win for all. >> That's exactly the trend We're seeing operations moving to more developers and more big time operational scale questions where your programming, the infrastructure. Absolutely. Developers. You don't want to deal with it >> and making it work. Listen tricks. So you know when to deploy. What workload? Having full control. That's part of the deployment >> exam. Alright, final question. I know we got a break. We're in tight on time. Final point share perspective of what's what's important here happening. And IBM. Think twenty nineteen people who didn't make it here in San Francisco are watching. You have to top cloud executives on VM wear and IBM here as biased towards cloud, of course. But you know, if you're watching, what's the most important story happening this week? What's what's going on with IBM? Think Why is this conference this week important? >> I think for us, it's basically saying We're here to meet you where you are, regardless, where you on your customer journey. It's all about choice. It's no longer only about public Cloud, and you now have a lot of capably of your finger trips to take your legacy workloads or your neck, new workplace or any app anywhere we can help you on that journey. That would be the case with >> you, and I wouldn't go that right, said it slightly differently. You know, a lot of the public service of public cloud service providers kind of bring you over to their public loud, and then you're kind of stuck over there and customers don't like that. I mean, you look at the statistics for everybody has at least two or more public clouds. They're worried about the connective ity, the interoperability, the security costs, the cost, the skills to manage all of it. And I think we have the perfect solution of solutions that really start Teo. Speak to that problem. >> So the world's getting more complex as more functionalities here, Software's gonna distract it away. Developers need clean environment to work in programmable infrastructure. >> And you know where an IBM Safe Choice, choice, choice. >> We have to go on top to cloud executives here. Inside the cue from IBM of'em were bringing all the coverage. Was the Cube here in the lobby of Mosconi North on Howard Street in San Francisco for IBM? Think twenty. Stay with us for more coverage after this short break. Thank you. Thank you.

live from Las Vegas it's the cube covering AWS reinvent 2018 brought to you by Amazon Web Services Intel and their ecosystem partners welcome back everyone to the cubes live coverage of AWS reinvent here at the Venetian in Las Vegas I'm your host Rebecca night along with my co-host Dave Volante Rebecca we work together this week and I'm excited for our next guest he is an esteemed cube alum Harish Venkat vice president global sales enablement and marketing at Veritas technologies welcome back to the Q thank you very much thank you see you Gary good to see you David so you've been to this is not your first rodeo you know many AWS reinvents what are you hearing what what are you hearing on the ground from your customers what trends are you seeing what most excites you yeah first of all that's great to be part of reinvent you know love the buzz here it's very electrifying and we're very happy about our partnership with AWS and we're very happy about the sponsorship for reinvent as well if there are any skeptics out there who's still thinking cloud is still a fashion statement they really need to reassess their statement because proud is in full effect for both computer and storage the other trend that I'm seeing is globalization is in full effect ideas are flowing swiftly and freely through the borders and then when you think about technology technology is very exciting the global GDP is what about 79 trillion IT spend about four trillion but it's interesting to see the four trillion sort of fueling the growth for the 79 trillion I also think AI machine learning deep learning all of this is going to reshape not only the software industry but I think it's going to reshape the way we live our lives and the last thing I'll say is data hands down as the new currency for enterprise right exactly we keep hearing this data is the new oil data is the it is the currency it's even more valuable I got our take on this okay so I can take a quarter oil and/or a gallon oil I can put it in my house or I can put it in my car I can't do both with that same resource data it doesn't follow the laws of scarcity I can use that same data from multiple use cases so by premises it's more valuable than oil what do you think I think the versatility of data is not the same as oil oil has very limited purpose and I think it's important and we are all dependent on it but data is so meaningful the amount of insights you can get it provides you a competitive edge in the industry it is unbeatable so yeah oil not say mono reefs I've had the pleasure of doing a couple of Veritas solution days yes I did Veritas vision last year you guys have broken that up into multiple cities this year I did New York and Chicago just at ease with the last 30 to 45 days yeah had some great conversations with customers some Veritas execs the conversation was obviously heavy kool-aid injection of Veritas technology your roadmap your vision really really detailed stuff obviously a cloud was a piece of that the conversations here I'm sure a much more cloud oriented now can you talk about the discussions that you're having the focus that you have on cloud generally in AWS specifically yeah sure look I mean data is growing year over year and and customers are still trying to figure out how to manage the data how am I going to work out the economics of this by leveraging cloud and this is not an easy equation to solve by no means and this is where Veritas and cloud service providers like AWS are really taking the market leadership role and then figuring out how do we leverage the entire data landscape if you will so before you even think of cloud the first thing you want to know is where does my data reside and what type of data do I have so Veritas is able to provide that visibility of data classification of data we provide immense amount of deduplication ratio which helps with the economics of this ratio this equation so I think we provide an end to solution from visibility classification deduplication even helping new application and data to the cloud and the partnership with AWS is really enabling customers to solve that conundrum that you're talking so I want to double click on this you know so as a as a as a person who understands backup and recovery deeply as a working for a company that's that's their business and of course you're extending beyond backup and I understand that but you know snapshots replication that's not backup in recovery so when I see something like outpost outpost is this on Prem infrastructure appliance that AWS is bringing as part of its hybrid strategy I want to know how is that gonna be protected now of course they'll talk about the way in which they protect it but a company like yours has a different philosophy your recovery is everything the whole data management approach how do you guys think about data management and data protection you know beyond snapshots or beyond just replication can you explain that yeah so I think the best way to explain that would be to talk about a customer use case great and while several customers come to mind I want to talk about see IMC I think it's a perfect embodiment of all the business use cases that we've been discussing so far ok see IMC is China International Marine container and they've been in business since 1980 you know employ about 51,000 based out of Shenzhen in in in China and they started their digital transformation in 2017 and what they're trying to do is really achieve three things one move all of their business application to the cloud starting with their strategic ERP in this case it was s AP and s AP Hana and the other thing is because they've been around since 1980s a lot of their processes are outdated it's very manual and they had a lot of dependency on tape as part of their backup and recovery so they want to modernize but they want to modernize that piece of it and then the last thing is they wanted a state-of-the-art disaster recovery which is also required by the local compliance laws in China where it doesn't matter where your business application is running they needed a copy of data on Prem so they evaluated all the different vendors market and clearly they chose Veritas as well as AWS to solve that business problem why why did they choose you guys yeah so you know obviously Veritas is number one in data protection 15 years in a row we got more than 50 thousand customers 96 percent of Fortune 100 trust their data with us but more importantly I think it's the partnership with AWS that really helped solve this problem and let me tell you how they did it I think that's important so the first thing they did is they launched an instance of net backup in AWS you know gone are the days where you're completely dependent on purpose-built appliance people are switching over to virtual appliance and they were able to do that by the partnership with Veritas and AWS so an instance in AWS leveraging s3 for the immediate server two days after the data they moved on s3 data over to s3 ia and eventually to glacier you know obviously Andy Jessee has been talking quite a bit in terms of increased throughput from s3 to glacier which is going to help this cause and then when you when you think about how customers are dealing with the transition to the cloud not everyone's ever going to move there all of their application to the cloud it's going to be a journey with time but what that creates in a customer environment is you got critical data in the cloud critical data on prem and they're looking at one data protection solution for both on prem and cloud and this is where Veritas net back really comes and that backup really comes in well I want to ask a little bit about that journey because as you said they don't have everything in the cloud so how has Veritas and any available AWS this sort of three-way partnership how are you how does that work I mean our user hand-holding them are you is it a co-creative process can you can you riff on that a little bit yeah sure so you know just like any of their lines we start off with the technical alliance we want to make sure that whatever use case that we're going to the market and all of those use cases are really coming from customers we understand customer challenges we work with different companies and cloud service providers in this case AWS to make sure that the solution that we take to the market is complete there's absolutely no hiccups we got professional services to help them to mitigate the risk factors and to considerations that most customers are thinking about one is costs another one is performance and thanks to net backup a IR or auto image replicator you know we are able to take a 2/3 of the network bandwidth out so you can achieve all of that performance with one third the network we got incredible deduplication ratio the storage cost as a result as 50 times less than what you would get and so back to the to consideration factor performance and cost we're able to do that in collaboration with AWS so I wonder we could talk about multi cloud or poly cloud as we sometimes call it so you can infer from listening to AWS that it really is better off having a one cloud strategy but as we know oh you say you talk to customers there's no one customer cloud strategy the customers are made up of there's like the government there's multiple constituencies in the company and shadow IT and so there's multi clouds you don't care whether it's one cloud a moment about you're there to protect it but I'm interested in what years you're seeing so what are you seeing and how are you because we we know it's not more than it's more than just one it's not just on Prem in one cloud how are you approaching that problem talk about customers and what their kind of roadmap looks like in their strategic plans and where you fit yeah so back to your point I don't think we'll ever see just one cloud the dependency on just one cloud is not happening we're seeing multiple clouds we're seeing hybrid clouds obviously you know Azure stack is coming up with their own version and so is AWS and in a customer's environment you are seeing that now there's also talks about are we going to see cloud to cloud movement cloud to cloud disaster recovery I am not seeing that at all I think the economics of cloud to cloud move over our failover is just too expensive so I think we're still seeing physical to cloud cloud back to physical and then one physical to another cloud I don't see a whole lot of cloud movement so where Veritas really comes in as our ability to provide that disaster recovery both from physical to physical protect your data in the same assured way on Prem as well as the cloud allowing you to leverage the cloud as a disaster recovery mechanism in fact I was having breakfast with Bell media this morning and they have two sides in Canada that they're using disaster recovery and they're wanting to leverage cloud and he's super excited about net backup eight one two cloud catalyst you know ability to leverage cloud as the disaster recovery and with our VRP was just Veritas resiliency platform to achieve that so a culmination of all of that hopefully answers their question absolutely and I think that's right on you had referenced earlier in your commentary Harish that you see some major changes coming for the software industry and we were we were talking to Jerry Chen the other day from Greylock in a really sharp former VMware now he's you know VC so he sees a lot of stuff and he put forth the premise that everything's changing in software development as a software company I wonder if you could you could comment that Amazon is essentially giving all these this tooling to create new software apps but as a software player how do you guys look at that how are you modernizing you know your platform and what do you see is the outcome yeah so you know it's interesting you talked about VSD in New York obviously and I spoke about it and when I talked about two things over there which was really ease of use and simplicity and and that's really where the customers are gravitating we have to make sure that any platform in the software industry has the 3.click to value mantra built in you can't be having the green screens anymore so Veritas has taken the same approach we're really looking at ease of use and simplicity and three clicks to value so that's a big trend you know I talked about AI and machine learning and deep learning you know gone are the days where everyone is reacting to something now it's all predictive analytics how do I garner more information so we're building AI and machine learning into our platform where if there's an outage we're going to tell you beforehand some of the reasons before or beforehand into some of the reasons behind it and that way you can address it and not be a subject to a reactive catastrophe so I think those are two big things that I'm seeing in the software-defined storage and the second thing is just an overall ecosystem right so it's not just about standalone value but how do you collaborate with the rest of the software providers to build a bigger and better solutions as an example our relationship with AWS is speaking very highly of that we're solving bigger and better problems as a result of this we just announced our alliance with pure storage with their data hub architecture we're able to do you know data protection with IOT s which is again another trend in the marketplace where we can share protect and collaborate with pure data as well well let's talk with the edge in terms of data protection for the edge how'd how does the edge IOT how does that affect customers data protection strategies and what's Veritas is angle there yeah so you know I mentioned this in in Microsoft ignite because Satya had mentioned this in his keynote saying that the edge computing there's a lot of proliferation around that and it's not just a compute fact because a lot of data has been generated in that too so how do you make sense of all of that data how do you which ones do you protect which ones do discard so Veritas has that solution which allows you to sift through all of that data figure out which one's important classify that and then help you provide data protection for the edge computing I'm thinking about yesterday's keynote with Andy Jesse a dizzying number of announcements of new products and services new innovations and it's and this is really de rigueur at an AWS reinvent is this is this pace sustainable I mean this this constant innovation I mean is that sustainable what are you you know it's interesting you asked me that question because it's the same concept of is Moore's lot going to be sustainable right so far we're seeing that it is and as a result you're seeing all these madness around innovation you know driverless cars and you know journey to the another planet in a I and and ml and full effect and all of this is going to reshape our future so far I'm not seeing any signs of slowing down as long as Moore's law is going to keep up with its multiplier effect I think we'll see better better lifestyle and more and more innovation just the amount of patents that we're seeing with new startups it's just off the charts so I'm a big proponent of innovation and I think this will this will continue going on well I think if I could comment I think Moore's Law in many ways was was one-dimensional I mean you had the doubling of you know performance every 18 months whatever it is now you have this multi-dimensional innovation combination Moore's Law fine but you've got data you've got machine intelligence applied to that data and you've got the cloud at scale so this you have this combinatorial effect that has multiplicative effects on innovation so that our argument is the curve is actually bending you know into a nonlinear and it's mind-boggling there's big pace of innovation you certainly see that here from from Amazon it seems to be accelerating and it's it's underscored by the number of announcements that this company is making others trying to keep pace them forcing their customers to keep pace it's him it actually feels like it's it's speeding up not decelerating without a doubt and I think it depends on the type of company you're talking about if you're a startup company you know and have any of the legacy things that you're talking about you're spending all of your IT spent on innovation you look at a classy IT spend equation 85% of it just to keep the lights on and less than 10% on innovation I think that is mind-boggling to me and that's why some of these new startups are constantly challenging you know fortune 500 companies whose lifespan used to be 65 years but now at 16 years and it's constantly getting down because of this effect as well and I think that's a great point if if you're stuck in that 85% technical debt world and you don't allocate enough for innovation yeah it's it's going to be problematic and so what we see is customers looking at it as a portfolio we got run the business we have grow the business we have transformed the business we're going to deliberately allocate cash to each of those and hopefully bet on the right things yeah not a doubt I mean look at the at the end of it as a result of all these different phenomenons that we're talking about it is good for consumers because they're looking at more and more options better technology and those sort of fierce competition is always good for everyone as consumers as well as enterprise great well Harish thank you so much for coming on the cables my pleasure I'm Rebekah night for DES Volante we will have more of the cubes the live coverage of AWS re-invent coming up in just a little bit [Music]

>> From Tavern on the Green, in Central Park, New York, it's theCUBE, covering Veritas Vision Solution Day, brought to you by Veritas. >> Welcome back to the beautiful Tavern on the Green, in the heart of Central Park. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. My name's Dave Vellante. We're covering Vertias Solution Days, #VtasVision. Veritas used to have the big, single tent, big tent customer event, and decided this year, it's going to go belly to belly. Go out to 20 cities, intimate customer events where they can really sit down with customers across from the table; certainly, this beautiful venue is the perfect place to do that. Harish Venkat is here as the VP of Marketing and Global Sales Enablement at Veritas. Thanks for coming on, Harish. >> Yeah, thanks for having me. >> So, we're going to change it up a little bit. Let's hit the Escape key a few times and talk about >> Yeah. >> some of the big mega trends that you're seeing. You spend a lot of time with customers. You had some intimate conversations today. What do you see as the big trends driving the marketplace? >> So at my level, what I observe with the highest thing is simplicity, instant gratification, is two things that customers love. Forget about customers, even we as individuals, we love simplicity and instant gratification. Examples around that, you know, think about back in the days where you had to take a picture, process the film, and then realize, "oh my god, the film's not even worth watching." Now you have digital photography, you take millions of pictures, and instantly you view the picture, and keep whatever you want, delete whatever you don't want. A small example of how simplicity and instant gratification is changing the world. In fact, if you listen to Warren Buffett, he'll say, "Invest in companies that is making your life a lot easier," so, if I spread that across the entire industry, I can go on with examples like Netflix disrupting Blockbuster because it made it easy for customers to watch movies at their time, and making it easy for consumption. You look at showrooming concept, where you go to Best Buy's of the world and many others, and look at a product, but you don't buy it right there. You go to your phone and say, "okay, do I do a price compare?" And then order it on the phone, where someone delivers it to your house So the list goes on and on, and the underpinning result as a result of this is disruption, all right? You look at Fortune 500 companies, just in the last decade. Over 52% of those companies have been disrupted and the underpinning phenomenon is all about instant gratification and simplicity. >> And Amazon is another great example of, I remember when my wife said to me, "Dave, you got to invest in this company." It was like... 1997. >> Yeah. >> Invest in this company, Amazon? >> Yeah. >> At the time, it was mostly books, but they started to get into other retail, so right-- >> We missed that boat, didn't we? >> I actually did, but I sold, ah! (laughs) >> I never lost money making a profit, so okay. So, at the same time, customer... Customers just can't get there... >> Yeah. >> Overnight, so what are some of the challenges that they have in getting to that level of simplicity? >> Yeah, so you look at IT spend, and when you look at the breakdown of IT spend, you'll see that about 87%, and in many cases, even greater than 90%, they spend just to keep the lights on and these are well-established companies that I'm talking about. In fact, I was doing a Keynote in, in Minneapolis one time and a CIO came and said, "Harish, I totally disagree." "In my company, it's 96%." >> (Dave laughs) >> Just to keep the lights on! So you're talking about less than 10% of your IT spend gone towards innovation, and then you look at emerging companies who are spending almost 100% all around innovation, leveraging the clouds of the world, leveraging the latest and greatest technology, and then doing these disruptions, and making things simple for consumption, and as a result, the disruption happens, so I think we have an opportunity to re-balance the equation in the enterprise space, and making it more available for innovation than just keeping the lights on. >> So part of that... the equation of shifting that needle, moving that needle, if you will, just eliminating non-value-producing activities that are expensive. We know, still, IT is still very labor-intensive, so we got to take that equation down and shift it. Are you seeing companies have success in shifting, re-training people toward digital initiatives and removing some of the heavy lifting, and what's driving that? >> Yeah, so I think it's a journey, right? So, I mean, the entire notion of journeying to the cloud is one of the big initiative to take out heavily manual-intensive, data center-intensive, which is costing a lot of money. If I can just shift all of those workloads to the cloud, that'll help me re-balance the equation. I view the concept of data intensity, which is really two variables to it. Back to your point, if I can take the non-core activity, rely on my partner ecosystem to say what is best in class solutions that I can use as my foundation layer, and then innovate on top of it, then yes, you have the perfect winning formula to really have a lot of market share and wallet share. If you're trying to do the entire stack by yourself, good luck. You'll be one of those guys who will be disrupted. There is no doubt. >> So well, okay, that says partnerships are very important. >> Without a doubt. >> You're not too alone. >> Channel is very important. >> Yes. >> So, so what do you see, in terms of the ebb and flow in the industry, of partnerships, how those are forming? Hear a lot about "co-opetition," which is kind of an interesting term, that is now, we're living. >> Yeah. >> What's your, what's your observation about partnerships, and how companies are able to leverage them? What's best practice there? >> Yeah, so just as Veritas, we're a data protection leader company. We have incredible market share and wallet share, amongst the Fortune 500 and Fortune 100 companies, but even within our incredible standing, we have to rely on other partners. We don't do everything on our own. We have incredible relationship with our cloud service providers, with the hyper-converged system to the world, like Nutanix. We just announced Pure today, so when we combine those partnerships, we can offer incredible solutions for our customers, who can then take care of the first variable that I talked about, and then innovate on top of it. So I think partner ecosystem is extremely important. For customers, it's very important that they pick the right players, so they don't have to worry about the data, and they can continually focus on innovation. >> We were talking to NBC Universal today, and one of themes in my take-aways was he's trying to get to the... he's a, basically a data protector, backup administrator, essentially, but he's trying to get to the point where he can get the business lines to self-serve. >> Yeah. >> And that seems to me to be part of the simplicity. Now... an individual like that, got to re-skill. Move toward a digital transformation. Move that needle so it's not 90% keeping the lights on. It's maybe you get to 50/50. >> Yeah. What are you seeing in terms of training and re-education of both existing people and maybe even how young people are being educated, your thoughts? >> Yeah, I think the young people coming out of college, they're already tuned to this, so to me, those are the disruptors of the world. You got to keep an eye on those millennials of the world because you don't have to train them more, because they're coming out of college, you know. They don't have the legacy background. They don't have the data centers of the world. They are already in the cloud. They're born in the cloud, sort of individuals, so I think the challenge is more about existing individuals who have the pedigree of all the journey that, you and I, we have seen, and how do you re-tune yourself to the modern world? And I think that presents an opportunity to say, "Okay look, if you don't adapt real quick," "you don't have a chance to survive" "in this limited amount of time you have in the IT space," but having said that, we're also seeing that you have some time window, and that time window will continue to shrink, so when we talk about this transformation journey, you can see year after year, the progress that, that's been made in the transformation, this leap and bound, and that's all related to Moore's Law. You think about computer and storage, it's becoming a lot cheaper, and so the innovation rate is continuing to go up. So you have very limited window: adapt or die. >> So, Harish, we were talking about, we've talked about digital transformation. We talk about simplifying; we're talking about agility. We're talking about shifting budget priorities, all very important initiatives. How is Veritas helping customers achieve these goals, so that they can move the needle from 90% keep the lights on to maybe 50/50, and put more into innovation. >> So four major themes: one is data protection. If you don't have your core enterprise asset, which is your data protected, then you can't really innovate anything on top of it. You'll constantly be worrying about what happens if I have a ransomware attack, what if I have a data outage, so Veritas takes care of it, back to the notion that you pick the best players to take care of the fundamental layer, which is around the data. The second thing that I... I would say Veritas can help is the journey to the cloud. Cloud, again, is another instrument for you to take out cost out of your data center. You're agile, you're nimble, so you can focus on innovation. Do you see the trend? So again, Veritas helps you with that journey to the cloud. It allows to move data and application to the cloud. When you're in the cloud, we protect your data in the cloud. The third thing I would say is doing more with less. I talked about the IT equation already. Software-defined storage allows you to do that. And the last thing I would say is compliance. We can't get away from compliance, the fact that Veritas has solutions to have visibility around the data. You can classify the data. You can always be compliant working with Veritas. You take care of these four layers, you don't have to worry about your data asset. You can worry about innovation at that point. >> So it, to me, it's sort of a modern version of the rebirth of Veritas. When Veritas first started, I always used to think of it as a data management company, not just a backup company. >> Right. >> And that's really what we're talking about here today, evolving toward a data-centric approach, that full life cycle of data management, simplifying that, bringing the cloud experience to your data wherever it is. Could be "on-prem." >> Yeah. >> Could be in the cloud, sort of this API-based architecture, microservices, containers... >> Yep. >> All the kind of interesting buzzwords today, but they enable agility in a cloud-like experience, that Netflix-like experience that you were talking about. >> Absolutely, right, so we're super excited. The one thing I would also say is what our latest net backup, 812, the other thing that I talked about, which is simplicity and ease of use: we are addressing both of that in addition to the robust brand that we have around protecting data. So you now you have simplicity, ease of use, instant gratification, all the basic ingredients, and Veritas is here to protect them. >> Harish, it's been a great day. Thanks for helping me close out the segment here. This venue is really terrific. It's been a while since I've been at Tavern on the Green. Some of you guys, I don't think you've ever seen it before. Seth's down here; he's, he's a city boy but we country bumpkins up in Massachusetts, we love coming down here, in the heart of Yankee country. So thanks very much-- >> Of course. >> For helping me close out here, great segment. All right, thanks for watching, everybody. We're out here, from New York City, Tavern on the Green. You've been watching theCUBE; I'm Dave Vellante. We'll see you next time. (light electronic music)