>>Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're back at the center of the coverage of the world 20 twenty-two, the first live event in three years. Pretty amazing. And I'm really excited to have Tony Coleman. Here is the c e o of those who changing the finance and banking industry. And this is the global head of industry solutions. That would be welcome. Back to the cube. Welcome. First time. Um, so thanks for coming on. Thank you. >>Thanks for having us, >>Tony. Tell us about what are you guys up to? Disrupting the finance world. >>So tomorrow is everyone's banking platform. So we are a software company. We have over 3000 financial institutions around the world. Marketing tell me that that works out is over 1.2 billion people rely on terminal software for their banking and financial needs. 41 of the top 50 banks in the world run software and we are very proud to be powering all of those entities on their innovation journeys and bringing you know, that digital transformation that we've seen so much all over the past few years and enabling a lot of the world's unbanked through digital banking become, you know, members of the >>community. So basically you're bringing the software platform to enable that to somebody you don't have to build it themselves because they never get there. Absolutely. And and so that's why I don't know if you consider that disruptive. I guess I do to the industry to a certain extent. But when you think of disruption in the business, you think of Blockchain and crypto, and 50 is that is completely separate world and you guys participate in that as well. Well, I >>would say it's related right? I mean, I was doing a podcast recently and they had this idea of, um, buzzword jail where you could choose words to go into jail and I said 50 not because I think they're intrinsically bad, but I think just at the moment they are a rife for scam area. I think it's one of those one of these technologies and investment area that people don't understand it, and there's a lot of a lot of mistakes that can be made in that, >>Yeah, >>I mean, it's a fascinating piece that it could be truly transformative if we get it right, but it's very emerging, so we'll see so don't play a huge part in the Blockchain industry directly. We work with partners in that space, but in terms of digital assets and that sort of thing. Yeah, absolutely. >>So, Boris, you have industry solutions in your title. What does that entail? So >>basically, I'm responsible for all the verticals, and that includes great partners like Tony. And we're doing a lot of verticals by now. When you listen. Today in all these various talks, we have so much stuff ranging from banking, go retail, healthcare, insurance, you name it, we have it by now. And that's obviously the clients moving from the edge solution. Like touching a little toe in the water, but longer to going all in building biggest solutions you saw on stage the lady from this morning. These are not second Great. Yeah, we do something small now. We're part of the transformation journey. And this is where Tony and I can regularly together how we transform things and how we built a new way of banking is done with Michael services and technology surrounding it. Yeah, >>but what about performance in this world? Can you tell me about that? >>Yeah. This is an interesting thing because people always challenging what is performance and document databases. And Tony challenged us actually, six weeks before his own show several weeks ago in London and says, Boris, let's do a benchmark And maybe you bring your story because if I get too excited, I follow. >>Yeah, sure, that performance and efficiency topics close close to my heart. I have been for for years. And so, yeah, we every two or three years, we run a high water. We've got a high water benchmark, and this year we sort of double down literally double down on everything we did previously. So this was 200 million accounts, 100 million customers, and we were thrashing through 102,800 seventy-five transactions a second, which is a phenomenal number. And, uh, >>can I do that on the Blockchain? >>Wow. Yeah, exactly. Right. So this is you know, I get asked why we do such high numbers and the reason is very straightforward. If somebody wants 10,000 transactions a second, we're seeing banks now that need that sort of thing. If I can give them a benchmark report, this is 100,000. I don't need to keep doing benchmarks. 10. >>Yeah. Tell me more about the Anytime you get into benchmarks, you want to understand the configuration. The workload. Tell me more about that. So we have >>a pretty well path of a standard transaction mix. We call it a retail transaction mix. And so it's the tries to the workload. Is that because it's a simulation right around what you would do in your daily basis? So you're going to make payments you're going to check? Your balance is you're going to see what he's moved on your account. So we do all of that and we run it through a proper production, good environment. And this is really important. This is something we do in the lab you couldn't go live on. This is all all of the horrible, non functional requirements around high availability, >>security, security passes, private wings, all these things. And one thing is, they're doing this for a long time. So this is not like let's define something new for the world. Now, this is something Tony's doing for literally 10, 15 years now, right? >>It was only 15 years, but this >>is your benchmark >>top >>developed Okay, >>so we run it through and, um yeah, some fantastic numbers. And not just on the share sort of top-level numbers 100,000 transactions. A second response time out of it was fantastic. One-millisecond, which is just brilliant. So it means you get these really efficient numbers what that helped us do with, you know, some of the other partners that are involved in the benchmark as well. It meant that our throughput court, which is a really good measure of efficiency, is up to four times better than we ran it three years ago. So in terms of a sustainability piece, which is so important that that's really a huge improvement, that's down to application changes, architect changes as well as using appropriate technology in the right place. >>How important? With things like the number, of course, the memory size is the block sizes. All that stuff. >>We are very tiny. So this is the part. When I talk to people, we have what we call a system in the back of people. Look at me. Um, how many transactions on that one? So, to be fair, three-quarters, we're going to be one quarter or something else because we're still putting some components of and start procedures for disclosure. But when I think Seventy-five 1000 transactions on a single single 80 system, which is thirty-two cause you're saying correctly, something like that. This is a tiny machine in the world of banking. So before this was the main friends and now it's wonderful instance on a W s. And this is really amazing. Costed and environmental footprint is so, so important >>and there's a heavy right heavy environment. >>So the the way we the way we architect the solution is it follows something called a command query responsibility, segregated segregation. So what we do, we do all the commands inappropriate database for that piece, and that was running at about Twenty-five 1000 transactions a second and then we're streaming the data out of that directly into So actually I was doing more than the Seventy-five 1000 queries. A second, which is the part of it was also investing Twenty-five 1000 transactions the second at the same time >>and okay, and the workload had a high locality medium locality. It was just give us a picture of what that's like. Sorry. So, >>yeah, >>we don't have that. Yeah, >>so explain that That's not That's not the mindset for a document. Exactly. >>Exactly. In the document database, you don't have the hot spotting the one single field off the table, which is suddenly hot spotting. And now you have literally and recovery comes up and we say, What goes, goes together, get together belongs together, comes out together. So the number of, for example, it's much, much smaller and the document system, then historically, relationship. >>So it is not a good good indicator, necessarily >>anymore. That's what this is so much reduced. The number of access patterns are smaller, and I mean it is highly optimized, for example, internally as well. The internal structures, so that was very close to a >>traditional benchmark, would have a cash in front of a high cash rate. So 100 and 99% right, That's a high locality reference. But that's that's irrelevant. >>It's gone. There's no cashing in the middle anymore. It goes straight against the database. All these things are out, and that's what makes it so exciting and all the things in a real environment. I think we really need to stress it. It's not a test that at home. It's a real life environment out into the wild with the benchmark driving and driving. >>How did your customers respond? You did this for your recent event? >>Yeah, we did it for our use. A conference, our community for, um, which was a few weeks ago in London. Um, and the You know, the reaction was Certainly it was a great reception, of course, but the main thing that people are fascinated about, how much more efficient the whole platform it's explaining. So you know when we can run and it's a great number that we've got the team pulled out, which is so having doubled throughput on the platform from what we did three years ago, we're actually using 20% less infrastructure to give double the performance. Uh, macro-level, that's a phenomenal achievement. And that means that these changes that we make everything that we're doing benefits all of our customers. So all of the banks, when they take the latest release, is they get these benefits. Everything is that much more efficient. So everybody benefits from every investment, >>and this was running in the cloud. Is that correct? You're running out of this. >>So this was list, Um, 80 on a W s with a W s cases and processes. And so it was a really reality driven environment, >>pure pure cloud-native or using mana services on a W s. And then at least for the peace. It's >>awesome. I mean, uh, So now how convenient for the timing from, uh, the world. How are you socializing with your community? >>We're having this afternoon session as well, where we talk a little bit more detail about that, and he has a session as well tomorrow. So we see a lot of good feedback as well when we bring it up with clients. Obviously some clients get very specific because this reduction footprint is so huge when you think a client has 89 environments from early development systems to production to emergency standby, maybe a different cloud. All these things what day talks about the different Atlas features multi cloud environmentally. All this stuff comes to play. And this is why I'm so excited to work with them. We should bring up as well the other things which are available to ready already with your front and solutions with Infinity services because that's the other part of the modernization, the Michael Services, which Tony so politely not mentioning. So there's a lot of cool technology into that one, which fits to how it works in micros services. Happy I first all these what they called factors. Micro service a p. I cloud-native headless. I think that was the right order now. So all these things are reflected as well. But with their leadership chief now, I think a lot of companies have to play Catch-up now to what Tony and his team are delivering on the bank. This >>gets the modernization. We really haven't explicitly talks about that. Everything you've just said talks to modernization. So you typically in financial services find a lot of relation. Database twenty-year-old, hardened, etcetera, high availability. Give them credit for that. But a lot of times you'll see them just shift that into the cloud. You guys chose not to do that. What was the modernization journey look like? >>So it's a bit of, um yeah, a firm believer in pragmatism and using. I think you touched on earlier the appropriate technology. So >>horses for courses >>exactly right out of my mouth. And I was talking to one of the uh, the investor analysts earlier. And you know, the exact same question comes up, right? So if you've got a relation database or you've got a big legacy system and you're not gonna mainframe or whatever it is and you wanna pull that over when you it's not just a case of moving the data model from one paradigm to another. You need to look at it holistically, and you need to be ambitious. I think the industry has got, you know, quite nervous about some of these transformation projects, but in some ways it might be counter intuitive. I think being ambitious and being in bold is a better way. Better way through, you know, take take of you, look at it holistically. Layout of plan. It is hard. It is hard to do these sorts of transformations, but that's what makes it the challenge. That's what makes it fun. Take take those bold steps. Look at it holistically. Look at the end state and then work out a practical way. You can deliver value to the business and your customers as you deliver on the road. So >>did you migrate from a traditional R D B. M s to go. >>So So, Yeah, this is a conversation. So, uh, in the late nineties, the kind of the phrase document model hasn't really been coined yet. And for some of our work at the time, we refer to as a hierarchical model. Um, And at that point in time, really, if you wanted to sell to a bank, you needed to be running Oracle. So we took this data model and we got it running an article and then other relational databases as well, but actually under the colors there it is, sort of as well. So there is a project that we're looking at to say Well, okay, taking that model, which is in a relational database. And of course, you build over time, you do rely on some of the features of relations databases moving that over to something like, isn't it? You know, it's not quite as simple as just changing the data model. Um, so there's a few bits and pieces that we need to work through, but there is a concept that we are running, which is looking really promising and spurred on by the amazing results from the benchmark. That could be something That's really >>yeah, I think you know, 20 years ago you probably wouldn't even thought about it. It's just too risky. But today, with the modern tools and the cloud and you're talking about micro services and containers, it becomes potentially more feasible. >>But the other side of it is, you know, it's only relatively recently the Mongo who's had transaction support across multiple document multi collection transactions and in banking. As we all know, you know, it's highly regulated. That is, all of your worst possible non functional requirement. Security transaction reality. Thomas City You know, the whole the whole shebang. Your worst possible nightmare is Monday morning for >>us. So and I think one part which is exciting about this Tony is a very good practical example about this large scale modernization and cutting out by cutting off that layer and going back to the hierarchical internal structures. We're simply find a lot of the backing components of our because obviously translation which was done before, it's not need it anymore. And that is as well for me, an exciting example to see how long it takes what it is. So Tony space in my life experiments so to speak >>well, you're right because it used to be those migrations. Where how many line of code? How long do I have to freeze it? And that a lot of times lead people to say, Well, forget it, because the business is going to shut down. >>But now we do that. We do that. So I'm working, obviously, besides the work with a lot of financial clients, and but now it's my job is normally shift and left a pain in the game because the result of the work is when they move everything to the cloud and it was bad before. It will not be better in the cloud only because it's in somebody else's data center. So these modernization and innovation factor is absolutely critical. And it's only said that people get it by now. This shift and left over it is how can I innovate? How can accelerate innovation, and that leads very quickly to the document model discussion. >>Yeah, I think the world practitioners will tell you, if you really want to affect the operational model, have a meaningful impact on your business. You have to really modernized. You can't just lift shift that they're absolutely. You know, what's the difference between hundreds of millions or billions in some cases, versus, you know, some nice little hits here or there. >>So we see as well a lot of clients asking for solutions like the terminal solutions. And like others where there is not anymore discussion about how to move to the The question is how fast how can accelerate. We see the services request the first one. It's amazing. After the event, what we had in London, 100 clients calling us. So it's not our sales people calling upon the clients, the clients coming in. I saw it. How do we get started? And that is for me, from the vendor perspective, so to speak. Amazing moment >>yourself. You go, guys, we're gonna go. Thanks so much for that. You have to have you back and see how that goes. That. Yeah, that's a big story of if you're a great All right, keep it right there. Everybody will be right back. This is David for the Cube. You're watching our live coverage of mongo D B World 20 twenty-two from New York City. >>Yeah, >>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

(upbeat electronic music) >> Announcer: Live from Vancouver, Canada, it's The Cube, covering OpenStack Summit North America 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat, the OpenStack foundation, and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to The Cube's coverage of OpenStack Summit 2018 here in beautiful Vancouver, British Columbia. I'm Stu Miniman, with my co-host John Troyer. Happy to welcome back to the program, it's been a couple of years, actually, Boris Renski, who is the co-founder and CMO of Merantis And also is on the keynote stage for the OpenDev part of this show here. Boris, great to see you, thanks for joining us. >> Good to see you guys, and great to be back. Thank you for having me back. >> Absolutely, so we're going to talk about OpenDev, we're going to talk about a few things, but let's start with Merantis, your company. I think back to some of my first experiences at the OpenStack show. First of all, Merantis always does great keynotes, I remember there was dancing on stage, there's fun T-shirts I actually coveted. I don't go after swag much, but it was like the Heisenburg 99.999%-- >> I remember that T-shirt, yeah. >> Pure T-shirt for the Breaking Bad fans out there, to date myself on this, but always bring some energy and excitement and Merantis was one of the companies really super glued to OpenStack, so bring us up to 2018. When I think of Merantis, what should I be thinking of and let's get into it from there. >> Yeah, so let me see. We are still super glued to OpenStack. We did go through some changes and some evolutions. I think given how long it's been since we've talked, the notable changes have been a change to our delivery approach and with it some of the changes to actually the underlying software stack, so the most common thing is that we've evolved Merantis OpenStack into what we now call Merantis Cloud Platform and the key difference is how we approach actually the life cycle management of the OpenStack itself. Before our tool for installing and basically updating OpenStack was Fuel which was very prescriptive and monolithic type of delivery method and what we realized is most of it, large customers that we have, they have a fairly heterogeneous reference architectures that you have to cater to and you have to be able to do that in such a way that it is cost effective, so we've rebuilt Fuel for to a new tool called DriveTrain which uses a continuous delivery pattern to manage and deliver updates to OpenStack and with that we've also tweaked out delivery model a little bit. Before we just followed traditional distro-model where we just throw out our software out there. You can download and play with it and call us and we'll support you. When it comes to complicated distributive systems like OpenStack, that are life-cycled following a continuous delivery pattern, most of the companies simply don't have the in-house talent and skills to just take it and start deriving value, so we've moved to what we refer to as a build, operate, transfer model where we actually come in and we set up the environment, we manage an environment to an SLA, give a customer four nines SLA on the up time of the OpenStack environment we're managing and after a period of a year, give the customer an opportunity to gradually take over the operations and by operations I mean, patches, updates, et cetera until after some time we just completely go away or we just take a role of a software support vendor, effectively. So that's on the core business side. Since we haven't talked in a while, so it's a little bit of a long update, sorry. >> Stu: Yeah, yeah, it's okay. >> The thing that we've been talking a lot about recently has been the new thing we launched in beta about a month and a half ago called Merantis application platform, so Merantis Cloud Platform is OpenStack, is our core business. Merantis Application Platform is a new thing that we have launched about month and a half ago that is based on Spinnaker and Spinnaker is this continuous delivery open source tool that's been built by Netflix, originally. >> Yeah, so before we get into the OpenDev and Spinnaker and all that stuff, want your viewpoint on the OpenStack piece, so really appreciate that update. There were years that we thought, oh, it's the battle for who's going to do distributions and as you said, it's not that easy and maybe we had poor expectations as an industry as to where we could take it and where it should be used, so how should people be thinking about OpenStack in general? Can you give us one or two of the key use cases you see in your customer base? >> Yeah, so, I think that what we realized is that when it comes to general purpose cloud, so to speak, there is not tremendous value, at least among the customers that we have the opportunity to interface with, to use OpenStack. You have something that's already in place and you don't touch it and that's usually VMware or you want something new general purpose, people go to public cloud, but there is an enormous opportunity for what we refer to as tuned stacks or clouds that are tuned to particular business use cases and this is where I think is an opportunity for OpenStack to excel and this is historically where we as Merantis been actually delivering value to our customers. So speaking of the use cases, our customer base is split, we split it into enterprise and telco. More than half of the customers, actually, are from the telco side. So telco clouds, there is a variety of use cases. Typically those use cases are function of the, and the overarching use case is NFE, virtually network function virtualization. The specificity and the reference architecture of the actual infrastructure environment is a function of the VNF that is running on that cloud and in some instances if you were to categorize this for telco space, you can think of it in terms of a big cloud for VNFs that don't need to be close to the edge and those that are stretching out to the smaller footprint all the way to the edge and those are vastly different reference architectures and you do different performance optimizations and tuning and this is something that you can only do with something like OpenStack. Now when it comes to the enterprise side, the actually emerging use case that we've been seeing quite a bit of is HPC, because, again, HPC is full of purpose-built equipment, you do networking differently, you do a lot of things differently and a lot of the times the general purpose public clouds don't work for it, so for HPC again, we have a set of reference architectures that are modeled within the Drivetrain that we can just deploy fairly easily out of the box that cater specifically to the HPC use case and the enterprise. >> Boris, do you think HPC then either includes now or evolves into ML and AI as well, again, bespoke hardware, very specific use case? >> Yes, eventually. I think that there is an opportunity there for some of the reference architectures and deployment topologies currently used for HPC to evolve towards some of the AI use cases. Again, I think that, when it comes to enterprise and AI, it's a bit early, so yeah. >> Boris, the tagline of the company is, The Managed Open Cloud Company, and you talked about managing, being a managed cloud. That's been a fascinating development over the last few years. We're seeing it at the OpenStack level and for instance at the kubernetes level as well. Can you talk a little bit about that approach and who are the customers that need that entry ramp or accelerator for these private cloud installations? >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that... There are two types of ways to implement infrastructure, implement the cloud. There is those that are trying to, they are looking at public cloud and they are saying, okay, this is like, I see what Amazon's doing, what Google's doing is great. I want the same thing and I want it in-house, for security reasons, for whatever, compliance reasons, doesn't matter. So all of these guys that fall into this category, I think for them to become successful with the cloud on-prem, should follow the managed approach. Again, I'm a little bit biased on this in that I'm selling this-- >> That was always the hit against running your own private cloud is you didn't have, one did not have the expertise in-house-- >> Boris: Yeah, that's exactly correct. >> That's what we need. >> First of all, the whole evolution between Fuel to Drivetrain and using the CD pattern to life-cycling the infrastructure stack is something that there isn't talent out there, there isn't DNA out there and enterprises simply are not able to just go ahead and start doing it and the whole model that, when you go to Amazon, you just have this cloud that is continuously updated for you, you don't have to worry about anything, so this model implies that you focus on delivering the end service rather than delivering the software. When you go to Amazon, you don't get software, you don't get to pick and choose. You just get certain reference architecture that is delivered for you. The guys that want to replicate the Amazon on-premise effectively, in my view, have to be gradually on ramped onto that. You can't just grab the software, do DIY, and expect you'll have an Amazon. There's a second category and the second category is basically like the software guys, the guys that, they are not looking for Amazon, they are looking for cheaper VMware, which is a different experience. I have my own team, I have my opps guys, VMware is great, but it's too expensive, I don't want be locked into it, give me something that is different. So there is value in that, but this is not the segment of the market that we are going after and I don't think that cheaper VMware is what most people refer to when they talk about cloud. So I hope that answers the question. >> Absolutely, so you brought up Spinnaker before. Want to get your thoughts on the things usually, typically on top of OpenStack, but kubernetes, Spinnaker, containers in general. What's Merantis' position on this. What are you hearing from your customers and would love to tease out some of the Spinnaker stuff a bit more. >> Yeah, yeah. Spinnaker thing is fairly new for us. We've been tracking the space and Spinnaker in particular, probably for a year, although have come out publicly just recently about it. The reason why the space was interesting to us was because I think that everybody who is undergoing digital transformation and embracing cloud as a byproduct of it, is really after being able to run the company like a startup, being able to release faster, being able to release more often and in fact, when we'd come to our customers our opening pitch even for OpenStack has always been, buy OpenStack, that'll help you build software faster. On the one hand, it's kind of like a cool pitch, on the other hand, I think everybody in the company, including myself, we're not entirely comfortable with making that leap. OpenStack means I can have an API for my VM's and maybe containers, release software faster. How do you connect the two, right? So, we decided to, in trying to solve this problem of helping companies release software faster, for once rid ourselves of our existing business and our infrastructure centric views of the world and unpack the problem and see what are the real big issues with releasing software faster today. What we realized is that one of the biggest bottlenecks is actually the continuous delivery part because when it comes to continuous delivery or even not to use fancy terms just to, deploying anything to production in the enterprise. It's a very complicated process that requires coordination between multiple teams like the application team, the SRE team, the SEC opps team, all of these teams are using different tools and the handoff process and the handshakes between are very loose, generally so a developer can build something very quickly, but for it to hit production environment, and for the enterprise to actually get feedback from the customers on this, it takes a very long time. So we started thinking about how do you actually shorten that cycle? What can you do? With that kind of frame of mind, we've come across Spinnaker and what we realized is that Spinnaker is actually, in a sense, to continuous delivery what OpenStack is to infrastructure, because the reason why OpenStack became popular is because it's effectively, on one hand, has all these plugins for diverse infrastructure, and on the other hand you can automate the orchestration process of bringing up a VM, instead of having your server people come in, put in the server, your operating people come in and install operating system, the network people come in, configure the network, et cetera, it's actually built a workflow and orchestrated the whole thing automatically without necessarily requiring companies to throw away their existing infrastructure investment. And if you go to the CD space, the situation's kind of similar. You have all these different teams, you have all these different tools, and you need to find a way to automate and orchestrate this process so that you minimize the number of human steps and this is exactly the problem space that Spinnaker's been tackling, so it's a portent of this plugability and having a single API for the entire CD chain and the best implementation would be the one like Netflix has is where the actual developers are able to just deploy to production directly. All of this orchestration between all the testing and all the stuff is done by Spinnaker behind the scenes, so we feel that actually tackling that problem and bringing this innovation into the enterprise is going to be something very dramatic at producing something at an order of magnitude performance gains for our customers. >> Of course, one of the things the foundation announced was the Zule CI/CD. Can you help us reconcile Zule and Spinnaker? >> Zule is from what I would characterize it, primarily deals with VCI side of the spectrum and I mentioned this in my talk, so one of the things we learned as a company is if you unpack CI/CD, which most people, at least in the infrastructure space look at it like it's one thing, like oh CI/CD thing, it's like one thing, basically. In reality, it's not one thing, it's completely separate things, so CI primarily has to do with actually building the code into something that can be deployed, into some deployable artifact and CD takes on from there. So Zule deals primarily with the CI part and it deals with it in a particular way for a set of specific use cases, so Zule emerged as the CI infrastructure for OpenStack Project itself and OpenStack is a very peculiar project in that, there's thousands of developers with different viewpoints on the world that are highly distributed, building many different components that are loosely coupled that all need to come together somehow. So you need to have distributed CI systems that talk to each other and you can merge all of this code and test it all together, so that use case is very relevant for large open source projects and it's probably relevant for enterprises who want to adopt similar type of practices for software development internally, so if you want to some extent de-silo many distributed Dev teams that you have internally as an enterprise and overlay standard process for the CI piece of it for everybody, I think Zule is a good solution and Spinnaker then comes after that, as an additive that does the deployment part. >> John: Yep, that makes sense. >> Alright, for us unfortunately we're running low on time, not going to have much time to dig in to the OpenDev piece. Last question I actually wanted to ask you is what do you say to the naysayers out there. People that aren't here sometimes tend to throw stones at OpenStack failed, OpenStack is dead, all the VCs pulled out years ago. Merantis has been through it and you've got customers. We've had a good experience this week, but it's a different OpenStack than it was a few years ago, so just if you could give us the final word on that. >> Yeah, so, good question. I think that... Basically, OpenStack was at this insane hype back in the day and it's natural to expect that the higher the hype, the bigger going to be the drop, but I think that all technologies ultimately, they can not sustain the hype. You have to level out at a certain point that is equal to the true customer value that you are delivering. So I think that the naysaying is a function of very high hype that has now leveled to the... What it should be, really, in terms of the value being delivered by OpenStack. And there's this pool, it generated this big pool of the naysayers that are walking around and saying that it is dead and the reason why there's the pool is because indeed there is a lot of investment, there is enormous amount of startups that kind of like, ah, we are the cool guys, we are going to change the world, we are going to kill Amazon, whatever, that now are completely gone and now of course they are naysayers and saying that the whole thing's dead, but on the flip side of that, if you just walk around the summit, you can see that there's many more users, there's many more customers that are actually talking about real use cases and then the companies that did stay and stick around, like ourselves, like Red Hat, like Canonical and SUSE, actually, are seeing continued growth and increased usage, so just a nice closing comment is our biggest customer for OpenStack is AT&T. We've been with them for five years now and they've been very excited about it and then, no it's all going to be dead, it's going to be containers now, and nuh nuh nuh, but despite all of that, the usage is continuing to grow and there is 10,000 nodes plus now running physical servers with OpenStack and it continues to work and it just, workloads are moving to it and AT&T is not the only one. There is plenty more that are following this trend, so it's a very long answer to your question, but I remain optimistic. For us it's still very much core of our business and we're continuing to see growth and usage and we are sticking around and sticking to OpenStack. >> Alright, well Boris Renski, it's, as you know, one of our earliest taglines was helping to extract the signal from the noise. We appreciate you helping us to understand the reality outside the hype. So for John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman, more coverage here from the OpenStack Summit 2018 in Vancouver. Thank you for watching The Cube. (upbeat electronic music) (soft piano music)

>> Narrator: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is theCUBE conversation. >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are here in our Palo Alto studios today. We got through March, this is some really crazy time. So we're taking advantage of the opportunity to reach out to some of the community leaders that we have in our community to get some good tips and tricks as to know how to kind of deal with this current situation. All the working from home, school from home. And we're really excited to have one of the experts. One of my favorite CUBE guests. We haven't had her around since October 2017, which I find crazy. And we'd love to welcome into theCUBE via the remote dial-in, Rachel Tobac. She is the CEO of SocialProof Security. Rachel, great to see you and I cannot believe that we have not sat down since 2017. >> I know, I can't believe it, it's been so much time. Thanks for having me back. >> Absolutely, but we are good Twitter friends. >> Oh yeah >> Exchanging stuff all the time. So, first of, great to see you. Just a kind of of introduction, tell us a little bit about SocialProof Security and your very unique specialty. >> Yes. SocialProof Security is all about social engineering and protecting you from the those types of attackers. So, basically we help you understand how folks manipulate you and try and gain access to your information. I am an attacker myself so I basically go out, try it, learn what we can learn about how we do our attacks and then go on and train you to protect your organization. So, training and testing. >> Alright. Well, I am going to toot your horn a little bit louder than that because I think it's amazing. I think that you are basically 100% undefeated in hacking people during contests at conventions, live. And it's fascinating to me and why I think it's so important it's not a technical hack at all. It's a human hack, and your success is amazing. And I've seen you do it. There's tons of videos out there with you doing it. So, what are kind of just the quick and dirty takeaways that people need to think about knowing that there are social hackers, not necessarily machine hackers out there, trying to take advantage of them. What are some of these inherit weaknesses that we just have built into the system? >> Yeah, thanks for your kind words too, I appreciate that. The challenge with social engineering is that it leverages your principles of persuasion. The parts of you that you cannot switch off. And so, I might pretend to be similar to you so that I can build rapport with you. And it's really hard for you to switch that off because you want to be a kind person, you want to be nice and trusting. But it's hard, it's a tough world out there and unfortunately criminals will leverage elements of your personality and your preferences against you. So, for instance if I know you have a dog, then I might play a YouTube video of a dog barking and try and gain access to information about your systems and your data, while pretending to be IT support, for example. And that's really tough because, you know three minutes into the conversation we are already talking about our dog breeds and now you want to trust me more. But unfortunately just because we have something in common, it doesn't mean that I am who I say I am. And so, I always recommend people are politely paranoid. It just basically means that you use two methods of communication to confirm that people are who they say they are. And if they are trying to get you to divulge sensitive information or go through with a wire transfer, for instance, you want to make sure that you check that first. We just saw an example of this with Barbara Corcoran. Famously on Shark Tank. Where she has many investments in real estate. And unfortunately a cyber criminal was able to take advantage and get almost $400,000 wired over to them and they did lose that money because they were able to take advantage of the bookkeeper, the accountant and the assistant and folks just were not checking back and forth that people are who they say they were with multiple methods of communication. >> It's crazy. A friend of mine actually is in the real estate business. And we were talking earlier this year and he got a note from his banker. Looked like his banker's email. It was the guy's name that he works with all the time. Was talking about a transfer. It didn't have a bunch of weird misspelling and bad grammar. And all kind of the old school things that kind of would expose it as a hack. And he picked up the phone and called the guy, and said "we don't have a transaction happening right now. "Why did you send this to me?" So it gets really really really good. But lets dive into just a little vocabulary 101. When people talk about "fishing" and "spearphishing" what does that exactly mean for people that aren't really familiar with those terms? >> Sure. Most likely you are going to see it happen over email. In fact, with COVID-19 right now we've seen through Google's Transparency Report on fishing that there's been a 350% increase in fishing attacks. And I believe Brisk had this huge research that said that there were 300,000 plus suspicious COVID 19 fishing websites that were just spun up in the past couple of weeks. It's pretty scary but basically what they are trying to do is get you to input your credentials. They are trying to get access to your machine or your credentials so that they can use them on other high value sites, gain access to your information, your data, points, your sensitive data basically. And use that against you. It's really tough. Unfortunately, criminals don't take a break even in crisis. >> Yeah they are not self-isolating unfortunately, I guess they are sitting there with their computers. So that's interesting. So, I was going to ask you, kind of what is the change in the landscape now. So you answered a little bit there but then the other huge thing that's happening now is everybody is working from home. They are all on Zoom, they are all on Skype, WebEx. And you've actually had some really timely post just recently about little things that people should think about in terms on just settings on Zoom to avoid some of the really unfortunate things that are popping in kind of randomly on Zoom meetings. So, I wonder if you could share some of those tips and tricks with the audience. >> Yeah, absolutely. Some of the big issues that we are seeing recently is what people have coined as Zoombombing. It's all over the news. So you've probably heard about it before but in case you are wondering exactly what that is. It's whenever an attacker either guesses your Zoom ID code and you don't have a password on your Zoom call that you are in the middle of. Or they might gain access to your Zoom ID code because maybe your took a screenshot of your Zoom and posted that to social media. And now if you don't have password protection or your waiting room is on they can just join your call and sometimes you might not notice that they are on the call, which could lead to privacy issues, data breach for instance or just a sensitive data leak. If they join via the phone you might not even notice that they are on the call. And so it's really important to make sure that you have password protection on for your Zoom and you have waiting rooms enabled. And you don't want to take pictures of your workstation. I know that's really tough for folks. because they want to showcase how connected they are during these difficult times I do understand that. But realize that when you take those screenshots of your workstation, this is something that we just saw in the news with Boris Johnson just a few days ago. He posted an image of his zoom call and it included some of the software they used. And so, you just mentioned spearphishing, right? I can look at some of that software get an idea for maybe the version of his operating system the version of some of the software he may be using on his machine and craft a very specific spearfish just for him that I know will likely work on his machine, with his software installed because I understand the version and the known vulnerabilities in that software. So, there's a lot of problems with posting those types of pictures. As a blanket rule you are not going to want to take pictures of your workstation. Especially not now. >> Okay, so, I remember that lesson that you taught me when we're in Houston at Grace Hopper. Do not take selfies in front of your pics, in front of your work laptop. 'Cause as you said, you can identify all types of OS information. Information that gives you incredible advantage when you are trying to hack into my machine. >> Yeah, that's true. And I think a lot of people don't realize they are like, "everybody uses the browser, everybody uses Power Point", for example. But sometimes, the icons and logos that you have on your machine, really give me good information about the exact version and potentially the versions that might be out of data in your machine. When I can look up those non-vulnerabilities pretty easily that's a pretty big risk. The other things that we see is people take screenshots and I can see their desktop and when I can see your desktop, I might know the naming convention that you use for your files which I can name drop with you or talk about on the phone or over email to convince you that I really do have access to your machine like I am IT support or something. >> Yeah, it's great stuff. So for people who want more of this great stuff go to Rachel's Twitter handle. I'm sure we have it here on the lower third. You've got the great piece with. Last week with John Oliver hacking the voting machines like a week before the elections last year which was phenomenal. Now I just saw your in this new HBO piece where you actually just sit down at the desk with the guy running the show and hacker disciplines systems. Really good stuff. Really simple stuff. Let's shift gears one more time, really in terms of what you are doing now. You said you are doing some help in the community to directly help those in need as we go through this crisis. People are trying to find a way to help. Tell us a little bit more about what you are doing. >> Yeah, as soon as I started noticing how intense COVID-19 was wreaking havoc on the hospital and healthcare systems in the world I decided to just make my services available for free. And so I put out a call on my social medias and let folks know "Hey if you need training ,if you need support if you just want to walk through some of your protocols and how I might gain access to your systems or your sensitive data through those protocols, let me know and I'll chat with you" And, I've had an amazing response. Being able to work with hospitals all over the world for free to make sure that they have the support that they need during COVID-19 it really does mean a lot to me because it's tough I feel kind of powerless in this situation there's not a lot that I can personally do there are many brave folks who are out there risking it all every single day to be able to do the work to keep folks safe. So, just trying to do something to help support the healthcare industry as they save lives. >> Well, that's great. I mean, it is great 'cause if you are helping the people that are helping ,you know, you are helping maybe not directly with patients but that's really important work and there's a lot of stuff now that's coming out in terms of, kind of of this tunnel vision on COVID-19 and letting everything else kind of fall by the wayside including other medical procedures and there is going to be a lot of collateral damage that we don't necessarily see because the COVID situation has kind of displaced everything out and kind of blown it out. Anything that you can do to help people get more out of the resources, protect their vulnerability is nothing but goodness. So, thank you for doing that. So, I will give you a last word. What's your favorite, kind of closing line when you are at Black Hat or RSA to these people to give them the last little bit "Come on, don't do stupid things. There is some simple steps you can take to be a little bit less vulnerable" >> Yeah, I think something that we hear a lot is that people kind of give a blanket piece of advice. Like, don't click links. And, that's not really actionable advice. Because a lot of times you are required to click links or download that PDF attachment from HR. And, many times it is legitimate for work. And so, that type of advice isn't really the type of advice I like to give. Instead, I like to say just be politely paranoid and use two methods of communication to confirm if it is legitimate before you go ahead and do that. And, it will take a little bit of time I'm not going to lie it'll take you an extra 30 seconds to 60 seconds to just chat somebody and say "Hey quick question about that thing you sent over" But it can start to change the security consciousness of your culture. And maybe they'll put out a chat while they send out an email from HR to let you know that it is legitimate and then you are kind of starting this cycle at the beginning. Not every single person has to ask individually you can start getting that security consciousness going where people are politely paranoid and they know that you are going to be too so they are going to preempt it and make sure that you understand something is legitimate with a second form of communication. >> Great tip, I am a little taken aback, everybody now wants to get their score so high their customer satisfaction score so after like every transaction you get this silly surveys "How was your time at SafeWay? "Or Bank of America?" All these things Survey Monkey. I don't really know how those businesses stay in anymore. I am not clicking on any Bank of America customer satisfaction or Safeway customer satisfaction link. But I will be politely paranoid and look for the right ones to click on. (giggle) >> That's good and use two methods of communication to confirm they are real. >> That's right,two-factor authentication. Alright,well Rachel, thank you for taking a few minutes of your time. Thank you for your good work with hospitals in the community and really enjoyed catching up. As always, love your work and I'm sure we'll be talking you more on Twitter. >> Thanks for having me on again and I'll see you on the Internet. >> All right, be safe. >> Rachel: Thank you >> All right, that was Rachel. I am Jeff. You are watching theCUBE. We are coming to you from our Palo Alto Studios. Thanks for watching. Stay safe and we'll see you next time. (instrumental music)

>>from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley. Palo ALTO, California It is a cute conversation. >>Hi, and welcome to the Cube Studios for another cube conversation where we go in depth with thought leaders driving innovation across the tech industry. I'm your host, Peter Boris. Everybody's talking about the cloud and with the cloud might be able to do for their business. The challenge is there are a limited number of people in the world who really understands what it means to build for the cloud utilizing the cloud. It's a lot of approximations out there, but not a lot of folks are deeply involved in actually doing it right. We've got one here with us today. Wound Junk is thesis CEO and co founder of Clue Meo Womb. Welcome to the Cube. >>Happy to be here. >>So let's start with this issue of what it means to build for the cloud. Now Lou Meows made the decision to have everything fit into that as a service model. What does that practically need? >>So from the engineering point of view, building our sauce application is fundamentally different. So the way that I'll go and say is that at Cuneo. We actually don't build software and ship software. What we actually do, it builds service and service is what you're actually shipped our customers. Uh, let me give you an example. In the case of Kun, you they say backups fail like so far sometimes fails. We get that failures too. The difference in between Clooney oh, and traditional solutions is that if something were to fail, we are they one detecting that failure before our customers do Not only that, when something fails, we actually know exactly why it failed. Therefore, we can actually troubleshoot it, and we can actually fix it and operate the service without the customer intervention. So it's not about the books also or about the troubleshooting aspect, but it's also about new features. If you were to introduce a new features, we can actually do this without having customers upgraded call. We will actually do it ourselves. So essentially it frees the customers from actually doing all these actions because we will do them on behalf of them >>at scale. And I think that's the second thing I want to talk about quickly. Is that the ability to use the cloud to do many of the things that you're talking about at scale creates incredible ranges of options that customers have at their disposal. So, for example, a W s customers of historically using like snapshots to provide ah modicum of data protection to their AWS workloads. But there are other new options that could be applied if the systems are built to supply them. Give us a sense of how clue Meal is looking at this question of, you know, snapshots were something else. >>Yes, so, basically, traditionally, even on their own prints, out of the things you have something called the snapshots and you had your backups right, and they're they're fundamentally different. But if you actually shift your gears and you look at what A. W S offers today, they actually offers the ability for you to take snapshots. But actually that's not a backup, right? And they're they're fundamentally different. So let's talk about it a little bit more what it means to be snapshots and a backup. Right? So they say, there's a bad actor and your account gets compromised like your AWS account gets compromised. So then the bad actor has access not only to the EBS volumes, but also to the snap shows. What that means is that that person can actually go in and delete the E. V s volume as well as the TVs. No options. Now, If you had a backup, let's say you are should take a backup of that TVs William to whom? You, that bad actor would have access to the CVS volumes. However, it won't be able to delete the backup that we actually have, including you. So in the whole thing. The idea off Romeo is that you should be able to protect all of your assets, that being either an on Prem or neither of us by setting up a single policies. And these are true backups and not just snapshots. >>And that leads to the last question I have, which is ultimately the ability to introduce thes capabilities. At scale creates a lot of new opportunities that customers can utilize to do a better job of building applications, but also, I presume, managing how they use AWS because snapshots and other types of service can expand dramatically, which can increase your cost. How is doing it better with things like native backup service is improve customers ability to administer the AWS spend and accounts. >>So great question. So, essentially, if you look at the enterprises today, obviously they have multiple on premise data centers and also a different car providers that they use like AWS and azure and also a few sauce applications. Right? So then the idea is for Camilo is to create this single platform. What? All of the stains can actually be backed up in a uniform way where you can actually manage all of them. And then the other thing is all doing it in the cloud. So if you think about it, if you don't solve the problem, fundamental in the car, their stings that you end up paying later on. So let's take an example. Right. Uh, moving bites moving bites in between one server to the other, traditionally basically moving bites from one rack to the other. It was always free. You never had to pay anything for that. >>Certainly in the data center, >>right? But if you actually go to the public cloud, you cannot say the same thing, right? Basically, moving by across AWS recent regions is not free anymore. Moving data from AWS to the on premises. That's not for either. So these are all the things that any, you know, cop provider service provider, because has to consider and actually solved so that the customers can on Lee back it up into Clem you. But then they actually can leverage different cloud providers, you know, in a seamless way, without having to worry all of this costs associated with it so criminal we should be able to back it up. But we should be able to also offer mobility in between either aws back up the M word or the M. C. >>So if I can kind of summarize what you just said that you want to be able to provide to an account to an enterprise the ability to not have to worry about the back and infrastructure from a technical and process standpoint, but not also have to worry so much about the back and infrastructure from a cost of financial standpoint that by providing a service and then administering how that service is optimally handled, the customer doesn't have to think about some of those financial considerations of moving data around in the same way that they used to have. I got that right? >>I absolutely yes. Basically multiple accounts, multiple regions, multiple couple providers. It is extremely hard to manage. What come you does? It will actually provide you a single pane of glass where you can actually manage them all. But then, if you actually think about just and manageability this actually you can actually do that by just building a management layer on top of it. But more importantly, you really need to have a single data repository for you. For us to be able to provide a true mobility in between them. One is about managing. But the other thing is about if you're done, if you're done with the real divide way, it provides you the belly to move them and leverages the cloud power so that you don't have to worry about the cloud expenses but whom you internally is the one that actually optimizing all of this for our customers. >>Wound young cto and co founder of Cleo. Thanks very much for being on the Q. Thank you. And thank you for joining us for another cube conversation. I'm Peter Bursts. See you next time

>>from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley. Palo ALTO, California It is a cute conversation. >>Hi, and welcome to the Cube studios for another cube conversation where we go in depth with thought leaders driving innovation across the technology industry. I'm your host, Peter Boris. Digital businesses affecting every enterprise of every size, small and large, and the types of solutions that required the types of outcomes that are being pursued are extremely complex and require an enormous amount of work from some of the best and brightest people on the business side as well as the technology side. And that means not just from a large company. It means from an entire ecosystem of potential sources of genius and insight and good hard work. So the consequence for every enterprises, how do they cobble together that collection of experts and capabilities that are gonna help them transform their business more successfully, Maur completely and more certainly than they would otherwise? And that's we're gonna talk about today. Today we're here with Kelly Ireland, who's the founder and C E o. C. B Technologies. Kelly. Welcome to the >>Cube. Thank you, Peter. Happy to be here, >>so let's start by finding a little bit about CV Technologies to also about what you do. >>Um, I have a IittIe background, so I have been in it for 40 years. In 2001 I decided I had a better idea of how to both support clients as well as my employees. So I opened CB Technologies were value added reseller, um, and then say about five years ago, I decided to do some transforming of the company itself. I saw what was going on in the industry, and I thought this was the time for us to get going. Turned out we were a little early, but we wanted to transform from what you would call it the value added reseller two systems integrator. Because that was the only words what they had for. You know what that end result would be? Now I've heard it's the, um, domain expert integrator, which we like a lot better. And what we've done is gone from this value add, which we've all seen over the last couple of decades, into actually engineering solutions, and mostly with consortiums, which will talk about of the O. T. I t. Convergence and what's going to be needed for that to make our customers successful. >>Well, you just described. In many respects, the vision that businesses have had and how it's changed over years were first. The asset was the hardware. Hence the var. Today, the asset really is the date of the application and how you're going to apply that to change the way your business operates the customer experiences, you provide the profitability that you're able to return back to shareholders. So let's dig into this because that notion of data that notion of digital transformation is especially important in a number of different names, perhaps no more important than in the whole industrial and end of things domain. That intersection of I t know Tia's, you said, Tell us a little bit about what you're experiencing with your customers as they try to think about new ways of applying technology technology rich data to their business challenges. >>We'll use the perfect word you said dig, because this is all about layers. It's all about it was technology and software. Now it's about technology, software and integration. In fact, the conversations were having with our clients. Right now we don't even talk about a no Yim's name. Where before you would. But we haven't our head. What? We know what would be best. What we look at now is the first thing you do is go in and sit down with the client. And not only with the client, the you know, the executives or the C I or the C T. O's et cetera, but the employees themselves. Because what we've seen with I I I o t o t i t Convergence, it's You have to take into account what the worker needs and the people that are addressing it that way. Um, this project that we started with Hewlett Packard Enterprise, they started up what we call the refinery of the future. It could be acts of the future. It doesn't really matter. But it was getting at least up to five use cases with a consortium of partner companies that could go address five different things within the refinery. And the reason that I think it's been so successful is that the owner, the CEO Doug Smith and the VP of ops Linda Salinas, immediately wrap their arms around bringing employees. They're a small company there, maybe 50. They brought half of them to HPD Lab to show them what a smart pump laws for their chemical plant text. More chemical in Galina Park in Texas. Starting from that, it was like they put him on a party bus, took them down, put them in the lab, told them, showed them what a smart pump was and all of a sudden the lights turned on for the workers. These are people that have been, you know, manual valves and turning knobs and, you know, looking at computer screens they'd never seen what a smart, censored pump waas all of it sudden on the drive back to the company, ideas started turning. And then HP took it from there, brought in partners, sat everybody in the room, and we started feathering out. Okay, what's needed. But let's start with what the client needs. What do those different business users within the chemical plant need, and then build use cases from that? So we ended up building five use cases. >>Well, so what? Get another five years cases in a second? But you just described something very interesting, and I think it's something that partners have historically been able to do somewhat uniquely on that is that the customer journey is not taken by just an individual within the business. What really happens is someone has an idea. They find someone, often a partner, that can help them develop that idea. And then they go off and they recruit others within their business and a local partner that has good domain expertise at the time. And energy and customer commitment could be an absolutely essential feature of building the consensus within the organization to really accelerate that customer journey. If I got that right? >>Absolutely, absolutely. And what we saw with Refinery of the Future was getting those partnerships HP East started. It created the project kind of through information out to many of their ecosystem partners trying to gain interest because the thing was is this was kind of our bet was a very educated bet, but it's our bet to say, Yeah, we think this makes sense. So, you know, like I said, I think there's about 14 partners that all joined in both on the I t om side the ot oh am side and then both Deloitte and CB Technologies for the S. I and like expert domain expert integration where you really get into How do you tie OT and I t together? >>All right, so we've got this situation where this is not As you said, It's not just in the refining process, manufacturing businesses. It's in a lot of business. But in this particular one, you guys have actually fashioned what you call the refinery of of the future has got five clear use cases. Just give us an example of what those look like and how you've been RCB technology has been participated in the process of putting those together. >>Um, the 1st 1 was pretty wrapped around Predictive Analytics, and that was led by Deloitte and has a whole host of OT and I t integration on it >>again, not limited to process manufacturing at all >>at all, but and a good group, you know, you have national instruments, Intel flow. Serve. Oh, it's ice off Snyder Electric, PTC riel, where they're such a host >>of the >>consortium and I I think what was most important to start this whole thing was H P E. Came in and said, Here's an MOU. Here's a contract. You all will be contract ID to the overall resorts results. Not just your use case. Not just one or two use cases you're in, but all five because they all can integrate in some sense so >>that all can help. Each of you can help the others think. Problems. Truce. That's the 1st 1 about the 2nd 1 >>The 2nd 1 is video is a sensor that was Intel CB Technologies. I think we have as you're in there as well, doing some of the analytics, some P T. C. And what that was all about was taking video. And, you know, taking a use case from Linda and saying, Where where do you need some sort of video analytics Taking that processing it and what we ended up doing with that one was being able to identify, you know, animals or aggressive animals within the train yard. A downed worker transients that shouldn't be there because we can't decipher between you know, someone that's in text marks p p ease versus somebody that's in street clothes. So taking all that analyzing the information, the pictures, training it to understand when it needs to throw and alert >>lot of data required for that. And that's one of the major major drivers of some of the new storage technologies out there. New fabrics that are out there. How did that play? A role? >>As you can imagine, H p E is the under underlying infrastructure across the entire refinery. The future from compute with the, uh, EJ data center into the Reuben network into nimble storage for storing on site. Um, what we're finding, no matter who we talked to in the industry, it is. Most of them still want to keep it on Prem. In some sense, security. They're still all extremely cautious. So they want to keep it on Prem. So having the nimble storage right in the date, having the edge data center having everything in the middle of this chemical plant was absolutely a necessity. And having all of that set up having my team, which was the C B Tech team that actually did all the integration of setting up the wireless network, because guess what? When you're in a different kind of environment, not inside a building, you're out where there's metal pumps. There's restrictions because ah, flash could cause an explosion so intrinsically safe we had to set up all that and determined how? How could we get the best coverage? Especially? We want that video signal to move quite fast over the WiFi. How do we get all that set up? So it takes the most advantage of, you know, the facility and the capabilities of the Aruban network. >>So that's 12345 quickly were >>three worker safety, which hasn't started yet. We're still waiting for one of the manufacturers to get the certification they need. Um, four we have is connected worker, which is on fire, having a work >>of connected worker on fire and worker >>safety. >>Yeah, they don't sound, but just think of all the data and having the worker have it right at his fingertips. And, oh, by the way, hands free. So they're being ableto to take in all this data and transmit data, whether it's by voice or on screen back >>from a worker central perspective, from one that sustains the context of where the worker is, what stress there under what else? They've got to do it said. >>And and what are they trying to complete and how quickly? And that's where right now we have r A y that's in the 90% which is off the chart. But it's and and what's great about being at Text Mark is we actually can prove this. I can have somebody walk with me, a client that wants to look at it. They can go walk the process with me, and they will immediately see that we reduce the time by 90%. >>So I've given your four. What's the 5th 1? >>Acid intelligence, which is all about three D Point Cloud three D visualization. Actually being able to pull up a smart pump. You know it really? Any pump, you scan the facility you converted into three D and then in the program that we're using, you can actually pull up a pump. You can rotate it 360 degrees. It's got a database behind it that has every single bit of asset information connected videos, cad cams, P and I. D s. For the oil and gas industry. Everything's in their e mails could be attached to it, and then you can also put compliance reports. So there you might need to look a corrosion. One of those tests that they do on a you know, annual or every five year basis. That's point and click. You pull it up and it tells you where it sits, and then it also shows you green, yellow, red. Anything in red is immediate, attest that tension yellow is you need to address it greens. Everything's 100% running. >>So the complexity that we're talking about, the kind of specificity of these solutions, even though they can be generalized. And you know, you talked about analytics all the way out to asset optimization Intel intelligence. There are We can generalize and structure, but there's always going to be, it seems to us there's going to be a degree of specificity that's required, and that means we're not gonna talk about package software that does this kind of stuff. We're talking about sitting down with a customer with a team of experts from a lot of different places and working together and applying that to achieve customer outcome. So I got that right >>absolutely, and what we did with the consortium looking at everything. How they first addressed it was right along that line, and if you look at software development, agile following agile process, it's exactly what we're doing in four I I o T o R O T I t Convergence, because if you don't include all of those people, it's never going to be successful. I heard it a conference the other day that said, POC is goto I ot to die, and it's because a lot of people aren't addressing it the right way. We do something called Innovation Delivery as a service, which is basically a four day, 3 to 4 day boot camp. You get all the right people in, in in the room. You pull in everything from them. You boot out the executive team partway through, and you really get in depth with workers and you have them say what they wouldn't say in front of their bosses that this happened with Doug and Linda and Linda said it was mind blowing. She goes. I didn't realize we had so many problems because she came back in the room and there was a 1,000,000 stickies. And then she said, the more she read it and the more you know, we refined it down, she said it was absolutely delivered, you know, the use case that she would have eventually ended up with, but loved having all the insights from, >>well, work. Too often, tech companies failed to recognize that there's a difference between inventing something and innovation. Inventing is that engineering act of taking what you know about physics or social circumstance Secreting hardware software innovation is a set of social acts that get the customer to adopt it, get a marketplace to adopt it, change their behaviors. And partners historically have been absolutely essential to driving that innovation, to getting customers to actually change the way to do things and embed solutions in their operations. And increasingly, because of that deep knowledge with customers are trying to doing, they're participating. Maurine, the actual invention process, especially on the softer side of you said, >>Yeah, yeah, I think what's really interesting in this, especially with Coyote. When I look back a few years, I look at cloud and you know everything was cloud and everybody ran to it and everybody jumped in with both feet, and then they got burned. And what we're seeing with this whole thing with I o t you would think we're showing these are lies, return on. Investments were showing all this greatness that can come out of it and and they're very slow at sticking their toe in. But what we've found is no one arrives should say the majority of corporations anymore don't want to jump in and say, Let's do it two or five or $10 million project. We see your power point. No, let's let's depart Owen with with what we're doing, it's, you know, a really small amount of money to go in and really direct our attention at exactly what their problem is. It's not off the shelf. It's but it's off the shelf with customization. It's like we've already delivered on connected worker for oil and gas. But now we're are so starting to deliver multiple other industries because they actually walk through text mark. We could do tours, that text mark. That was kind of the trade off. All these partners brought technology and, you know, brought their intelligence and spent. We were now on two years of proving all this out. Well, they said, Fine, open the kimono will let your customers walk through and see it >>makes text mark look like a better suppliers. >>Well, it's enhanced their business greatly. I can tell you they're just starting a new process in another week. And it was all based on people going through, you know, a client that went through and went. Wait >>a minute. I >>really like this. There are also being able to recruit technologists within the use in industry, which you would think text marks 50 employees. It's a small little plant. It's very specialized. It's very small. They pulled one of the top. Uh, sorry. Lost not. I'm trying to think of what the name >>they're. They're a small number of employees, but the process manufacturing typically has huge assets. And any way you look at it, we're talking about major investments, major monies that require deep expertise. And my guess is the text Mark is able to use that to bring an even smarter and better >>people smarter and better. People that are looking at it going they're ahead of the curve, for they're so far ahead of the curve that they want to be on board were that they're bringing in millennials on they're connected. Worker Carlos is there trainload lead. And he dropped an intrinsically safe camera and it broke and he tried to glue it together, tried to super glue it together. And then he ran back to Linda and he said I broke the case and this case is like £10. They call it the Brick. They gotta lug it up. They got to climb up the train car, leg it up, take a picture that they have sealed the valves on all the cars before they leave. Well, he had used the real where had, you know, device. And he went into Linda and he said, I know there's a camera in there. There's camera capabilities. Can I use that until we get another case? And she's like, Yeah, go ahead. Well, he went through, started using that toe like lean over, say, Take photo. We engineered that it could go directly back to the audit file so that everybody knew the minute that picture was taken, it went back into the audio file. This is where we found the process was reduced by 90% of time. But he turned around and trained his entire team. He wasn't asked to, but he thought, this is the greatest thing. He went in trainable. And now, about every two weeks, Carlos walks in to my team that sits a text mark and comes up with another use case for connected worker. It's amazing. It's amazing what you know were developed right out of the customer by using their workers and then, you know, proactively coming to us going. Hey, I got another idea. Let's add this where I think at version 7.0, for connected worker. Because of that feedback because of that live feed back in production. >>Great story, Kelly. So, once again, Callie Ireland is a co founder and CEO of CB Technologies. Thanks for being on the tube. >>Thank you for having me >>on once again. I wanna thank all of you for joining us for another cute conversation. I'm Peter burgers. See you next time.

>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley. HOLLOWAY ALTO, California It is a cube conversation. >> Hi, and welcome to the Cube studios for another cube conversation where we go in depth with thought leaders driving innovation across the tech industry. I'm your host today, Peter Boris. One of the biggest challenges that every enterprise faces is how best to focus attention on the most important assets that are driving or facilitating that drive the digital business and digital business transformation. There's been a lot of emphasis over the last 50 years in tech on the hardware assets, but increasingly we need to look at the elements of it that are actually creating net new value within a business now, maybe the people, the services and the data that make digital business possible. And that requires that we rethink our approach is to how we actually manage, conceive of and monitor those key assets and is likely to lead to some very interesting unification Tze over the next few years, especially in SEC ups and neck cops now and have that conversation got a great guest today. Sanjay Moon. She is the vice president, product management, that net scout Technologies. Sanjay, welcome to the >> Cube. Thank you, Peter. Thank you. >> So, Sanjay, I said a lot upfront. But before we get into that, tell us a little bit about Net Scout. >> Thank you, Peter, for the introduction. Net Scout is a smart data company. Net Scout has three decades of leadership and innovation in troubleshooting monitoring and securing it based networks. We are deployed in 90% off the Fortune 500 companies and 90% off the top communication service providers. World White. We have 50% market teacher In each of the three segments that we playing. Where is the next biggest competitor? We have has less than 5%. Those three areas are number one network and application performance monitoring for hybrid cloud infrastructure for enterprises, D does and on security for enterprise and service providers and service assurance for service providers, which includes mobile operators, cable providers as well as I speak. Today we operate in 50 plus countries worldwide. We have 25 100 plus employees and 500 plus pattern store credit. >> Impressive story. Let's get right to the issue, though, and how Net scout is actually participating in some of these crucial transformations. I mentioned upfront that one of the biggest challenges that every enterprise has is to focus Maura their attention on those digital assets that are actually driving change and new sources of value named of the data, the services and the devices and the people, the applications or people that use those. So one >> of >> the challenges that we've had is that, ah, focus on devices leads to a focus on certain classes of data that are mainly improved or focus on improving the productivity of devices. Give us a background and how that's what that means. >> Let me in to do the concept of smart data that's that's born out ofthe nets, calibrated with smart data. Next called Pioneer. The leverage off Wired ate our package data three decades back that drives over ingenious portfolio that drives net ops and cloud tops. S i r. Adapt to service intelligence. This is a smart data that comes out ofthe packets with S I smart data. We uniquely converge application and network performance monitoring you are customers Toro visibility across application tears and two and networks and diverse data center locations. >> So just toe pick up on that moving away from a log focus, which is again mainly, Let's improve the productivity of the device. We're moving in a sigh, which is focus on Let's improve the productivity of the connection in the application. >> Absolutely absolute. And we'll talk a little bit more about long. Let's talk about Log and Net flew other sources of data that folks have gravitated towards, which is not there, not there, not authority to by any means. Let's say log data, for example, this log data, you know, as soon as a threat actor, for example, gets access to your systems. The first thing the protector will do is to turn off flogging are doing verse changed the log days, change the cyst, log messaging itself. Let's take a look at net flow data. For example, Net flow data number one Problem is, it's not Doesn't have layers. Seven. Intelligence, innit? Number two. It's not generated by all the devices in the network. For example, the Coyote devices do not generate any kind of flow data, so only data that authoritative and that comes with high fidelity is packet or wire data. That's one element off of smart data that we have the other element of smart data comes from our arbor portfolio. Arbor products are deployed in 400 plus tier one operators, mobile operators and service providers worldwide. And as such, we see 1/3 of the Internet traffic to our strategically located. Sensors in the service provider corps were able to generate another type of smart data that we call Atlas Intelligence feed R A F in sharp air for it. Plus intelligence Feed essentially tracks cyber reputation across domains across joe locations and across user identities. The combination of the A S I smart data that is generated from the core of the hybrid cloud infrastructure. Let's call it intranet and F Smart data that is generated from the Internet Corps gives Net Scout a unique data set combination that's unparalleled in the marketplace and makes us perhaps Lee, one of the food vendors who can drive a consolidated visibility architectures across net ops, cloud ups and second >> Okay, So let's turn that into against very practical things for folks, because what it has historically done is by focusing on individual devices or classes of devices and the data that those devices generate, they end up with a panoply Ah, wide arrangement of security tools that are each good at optimizing those devices with those, he said, they may not necessarily be a forte tive, but it's difficult to weave that into a consolidated, unified SEC ops Net ops overall, not just architecture but platform for performing the work crucial work of sustaining your digital business infrastructure. How does smart data translate into unified operation >> is appoint Peter? Thank you. That's a very good point. So let me give an example and talk about the customers that we have deployed our smart data, our hybrid cloud infrastructure. This is a typical Fortune 500 where we are deployed. Next card is deployed as the hybrid cloud monitoring infrastructure, and the networks in the club cloud upside. Typically, you will see this type of organization has one tool to cover the entire hybrid cloud monitoring infrastructure across their entire portfolio, whether it is on Prem, whether it's in the cloud, whether it's in the core location facility. But when you look at the SEC locks and the security side, the story is completely different. The same organization, the same Enterprise customer, has 25 to 30 different disparate display tools As a matter of fact, analysts are saying today that a typical Fortune 500 the US has 70 disparate security tools. Why is that the case? Why is it that on the net tops and cloud upside, they need 11 tool net scout, for example? But in the second up there, 70 different products. The reason is not only smart data but also smart architecture. So what? We have seen what we have done over the past three decades, We have designed this two tier architecture that generates Margarita. The dear one is our distributed instrumentation of sense of framework, which we call in Finnish Stream or the Stream. This is the distributor sensor framework that is deployed in the hybrid cloud infrastructure that generates the smart data. And then we had the centralized Analytics layer, which is our ingenious platform that essentially correlates data across the hybrid cloud infrastructure and provide customers complete visibility across the portfolio off the data centers. On the second upside, security side security is roughly 1 10 to 15 years old. Security tried to emulate the studio model as well, but the security industry failed. In doing that, nobody could design this distributed sensor instrumentation cost effectively tto make violate our feasible for analytics with the result they migrated to. As you said, this subpar sources of data like CeCe log like net flow. And today they put all the emphasis on the analytics layer with the result. They need one tool for use case or one vendor per use case on the second offside. And that's why you see the two proliferation because they don't have this distributed sensor framework that will make violate our package data feasible for the analytics lately. >> And I want I want to build on something you're saying because, uh, the it's a It's a misperception that all resources and all work of digital business and technology is going to end up in a central crowd location. The cloud really is an architecture form or broad distribution of data and work, which means, ultimately, that if we don't deal with this proliferation security tools now we're going tow. Probably have an even greater explosion in the number of security tools, which will mohr radically diminish or ability to establish new classes of options and digital business. >> Very good point. As a matter of fact, just a couple of years back, the average number of tools was 40 in in a SEC cops portfolio on enterprise has in the U. S. To date 70 it could go 200. But if you look at the risk profile, well, this profile has stayed the same, are in and make mint. Many cases deteriorated, right? What we found is the tool that a number of tools is going up. The cost of breaches going up the third. The number of breaches are going up, and at the same time, the number of analysts is always and Earth. So in short, high investments on the security side failed to reduce risk. So the risk and investment factor both are going in the north bound go, both are going up. So how do you control that? How do you make them come down? The only way? Smart data on a smart platform on a smart analytics later. >> Yeah. Again, let me emphasize this crucial point because it's one of things that we've seen in our conversation with clients is, ah, proliferation of tools. Proliferation of data leads to a proliferation of tasks and response responsibilities within a business, and you end up with more human failures of consequence. So by bringing all these things together, you end up with smarter data, smarter platform, simpler operations, more unified operations and get greater leverage. So so, let's talk then about ultimately, how should a business What's the road map? What's the next two or three things that an enterprise needs to do to start bringing these to start unifying these resources and generating the simplicity so that you open up greater strategic options for how you configure your digital business? >> That's a very good point. So >> two things we talked about already one is smart data relying on smart data, which comes from wide ate our package data. And the second is smart, smart architecture, which comprises of this two tier architecture with distributed instrumentation and centralized analytics. What happens when you do that is the first thing is early warning detection. What we have realized, Peter, is that if you look at the traditional kill chain in Lockheed Martin's kill chain, our miter mortal that people are using now traditional reconnaissance weaponization shin as well as ex filtration, we have seen that if you rely, if you generate analytics based on packet date are smart data, which we do as a net scow. You can detect these phases much earlier than if you rely on device data. Net floor, sis log. So what I call day minus not day zero, but day minus so leveraging the smart data and smart architecture. Er, we're able tto detect these threats or compromises much earlier than a traditional kill chain more than lot of miter models, >> but But again, the reason why is because we're looking at patterns in the traffic. >> We're looking at behavioral patterns in the traffic. That's correct. Let me go little bit more technical, if you will, were looking at transactions at the DNA's level, transactions at the CP level or at the active directly level that happened much earlier than when electoral movement or a reconnaissance is detected. This happens much earlier because we have the smart data, the wide ADA that enables us to do this early warning detection, >> get more visibility to source as opposed to the target. >> That's correct. The second thing that happens with US smart architecture, the two tier architecture is the consolidation of fuse case. We talked about it a little bit, so today if you want in our in our hybrid cloud scenario that we the next card is deployed in Fortune five hundreds. Over the past 23 decades, our customers have moved from private cloud infrastructure. First they had the core righty. Then they moved Private cloud. You know, I am Francisco. Then they moved echolocation clinics and others. And then they moved also to public cloud. All the workloads are migrating and everywhere we did not make any change to our instrumentation there. Can you believe it? No changes You only changes we made was in the analytics layer to take care of the news cases. So with the result, we could consolidate multiple whose case is in the cloud monitoring in tow. One platform, the smart platform that smart data. Now we're building that value into security with the smart platform and smart data that we talked about. So the consolidation of use cases on the security side is the second advantage other than the early warning detection that we talked about. >> So this has got to improve. Detection has got intrude. Management's gonna improve. Forensics. If I got that right, >> made a good point. And forensics we should talk about a little bit more. Perhaps the second set of things that we're doing is we have done is consolidate in the SEC upside forensics and detection. So let me explain that a little bit more. If you look at a typical enterprise today, they use Seymour security information and even management platforms to correlate data from multiple sources. So in the event off a seam alert, off alert generated best SIM platform forensics teams need to determine what happened and what systems were impacted. Essentially the what when, how, where off, the off the alert or the compromise that has been detected today. As we said, security teams are not using packet data at all but foreign. 16. In orderto validate that alert, they need toe access sessions. They need to access packets belonging to that Ellen, but they cannot today because none of the devices none of the security platforms is using violator in the first place. So what the security teams are doing? Forensic analysts. They're leveraging devices like via shark and tracking investigations with spreadsheets. This is delaying the investigation time. As you know today, it's well known that this cause is alert, fatigue and 50% of the alerts that are going to the seam today are disregarded by the security analysts. With the result, the real threats are getting unabated, and enterprises come to know about a security breach from the media rather than from their own IT department. >> Sanjay. So we've had a great conversation talking about how smart data smart platform is going to lead to greater unification of tasks, people, responsibilities and set ups and net tops and some of the it impacts on eh enterprises Overall response stance both from a detection, management and forensic standpoint. So what's going on? Thank you very much for being on the cue. Sanjay Moon. She Thank you. Thank you. And thanks again for joining us for the Cube conversation. We've been Sanjay Moon, she of Net scout technology. I'm Peter Burke's. See you next time

>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California It is a cute conversation. >> Hi, I'm Peter. Boris, And welcome to another cube conversation from our wonderful studios and beautiful Paolo Alto, California. One of the biggest challenge that every enterprises faces how to attend to the volumes of data that are being generated by applications. But more importantly, that the business is now requiring because they want to find new derivative sources of value in their digital business. Transformations is gonna require a significant retooling and rethinking of how we used eight is an asset. And the directions that infrastructure, data management and business are gonna move together over the course of next few years. Now, have that conversation. Got a couple of great guests here. Josie Swoop is a VP of marketing veritas. Welcome to Cuba or back to the Cube. Yeah, thanks. Peter and Rick Clark is a CEO of opt are welcome. Thank you for the first time. >> Great to be here, >> So let me start here. Joey, why don't we start with you? Give us a quick update on Veritas and where your customers are indicating the direction needs to go. >> We've just had, ah, record breaking financial year for us, which ended in end of March. So since divestiture from semantic, as you know better, Toss has been through a transformation and then on a path to growth. So our core businesses are humming with just like I said, the second half of the year specifically was great for us. What we're hearing from customers, Peter, is that they want to elevate their their business problems away from infrastructure to business outcomes. That what they ask veritas to do is, can you abstract away some of those infrastructure plumbing problems, storage, security, data protection and focus on what the applications can give us. That's number one. Number two is Can we standardize? I mean, the example of Southwest comes to mind, right? They have the same plane so they can reroute those planes anytime they have the same pilots flying those planes so they can to standardize. So they collapsed better. And then, lastly, to your point value of data over volume. Everybody talks about the volume. What about the value of data? What is veritas do for for me? Mr. You know God's a customer in our tax extract value of that data, which is growing day by day. >> Well, one of the most interesting things about this challenge of businesses faces they try to attend to these things is that data is often characterizes the new oil. And we we push back against that Because >> data is a new kind of asset, it's an asset that's easily copied. It's an asset that's easily shared. You can easily integrate it. You can apply it to multiple uses with zero loss of fidelity and what it does currently. And so the whole notion of creating new options in the value of data's intrinsic to the questions of digital business. So that suggests that we need to start thinking Maur about data protection, not just from the standpoint of protecting data once it's been created and is sitting there so we can recover it. But new types of utilization, new ways of thinking about data data as it's going to be used, understanding more about dating, protecting that Rick, would you kind of Does that resonate? >> Yeah, absolutely. You know, one of the things that we've sort of seed in the marketplace is certainly over the last 10 years, the Data Sena has become so complex. This is massive fragmentation of data across highly virtualized infrastructures. And then, when public clouds came along, customers didn't really know what workloads they should move up into those clouds. And so what we saw is a huge problem. Is areas of cost and efficiencies, massive problems of risk and then obviously the amount of money that cos of spending on compliance. And so what we were really focusing on is the gaps. What do you not know about? And so we would really >> about your data >> about your data. Exactly. So we really measure the hot beat off the data protection environment, and from that we could actually see where are you? Risk where your exposure, where you're spending too much money, >> Where's your opportunities? Seize your opportunities. So we've got a notion of the the solution that folks are looking for, something that provides greater visibility into their end and data from a risk exposure opportunity. New sources of utilization standpoint talk a bit about how >> at four >> rounds out the veritas portfolio as it pertains of these things that you're seeing customers asked for taking data closer to outcomes and away from the device orientation? >> Absolutely. So Vatos has always been known to be a leader and data protection. We've done that for over 20 years. We also were the first pioneers in software defined storage. And we're number one in market share, according to I. D. C and Gardner as well. Ah, but again to my earlier point, customers have been asking. So what? We've done the plumbing really well and you've scaled. How do you take this to the next level? Extract value from all that data you're sitting on top of that you're protecting. And that's where apt are comes into the picture. We've built some tools natively within veritas of the last three or four years where we try to go and classify the data on in jest, identify things like P I information sensitive data, rock data, redundant, obsolete, trivial data that we can delete. There was a customer who recently deleted 30,000,000 files, just press the delete button and this isn't a highly regulated environment, >> but they were still pretty darn eggs. >> They definitely where but we were able to give them that visualization and information that they required. Now the question those customers are asking us or we're asking us. Before avatar came into the picture was at the infrastructure level. How do I know how much I'm spending on my data protection environments? Do I know where the growth ISS is it all in the traditional workloads of oracle ASAP, Or is it in virtual or is it in the cloud? Right. Am I putting too much data on tape? Is it costing me enough? Can extract the value from that data. So they were asking us infrastructure visualization and i D analytics. Questions which only apt are could answer. And we have some joint customers they were actually using. Apt are already not just with to monitor the vatos ecosystem, but even some of our competitors and the broader i t ecosystem on a single planet class. And that's where I think after really shines is is the agnostic approach they take beyond just veritas are beyond just another storage vendor. >> Well, so way certainly subscribed to this notion that data protection is going to It's gonna be extended, but it's gonna become a strategic digital business capability that does have to be re funk around the concept of data value and sounds like that's the direction you're taking, and you guys have clearly seen that as well. But obviously some of your customers have seen it. So talk to us a little bit about how customers helped you two guys together. >> Yeah, that's a great question. Was interesting. Actually. We had some of the largest companies in the globe actually using ourself with many of the fortune Tien using up self with J. P. Morgan Chase quote calm Western digital. And they came to us with these very precise problems around, you know, howto optimize my risk within the environment, had a streamline, obviously the costs and compliance. And we found that they were very common questions. And so we actually created this agnostic intelligence built into the software a rules engine that would have to correlate data from all of these disparate data sources. Whether Tom primer on the cloud tying that together would provide impactful insights to our customers that could sold real world problems. And we'll do it with kind of what we call the easy button. One of the big problems with a lot of software products out there today. Is there a point solutions to manage pots of the infrastructure companies wanted a single pane of glass where I could see everything across all of my storage. All of my data protection on prim and cloud. And that's really what we bring to the table, that single paying the class. And we do it very simply at scale for the largest customers. And that's in many ways was the synergy, obviously, with a partnership with Veritas. >> So give us some sense of how how customers will see the benefits of this from a rollout standpoint over the next 6 to 18. >> Right? So Step One in this journey for us is to ensure there are customers. Understand that we're going to continue to have that open an agnostic approach Apt are suddenly is not gonna become proprietary batter toss product. It's going to continue on its on its mission to be agnostic across various storage data protection and cloud environments. That's number one. Number two is we're gonna bring the the artificial intelligence and machine learning capabilities that we have in house with Veritas combined that with some of the things that Rick just docked, abide with the capabilities adapt our has combine, it's our customers can gain. I know add value. The one plus one equals three approach there as well. So those air, like the two key pillars for us going forward and eventually will extend apt are to an end to in Data Analytics platform not just I d analytics, where we're looking at infrastructure, but an end to end data. Plus I t analytics platform that spans Veritas is will Is the broader a IittIe ecosystem? >> Well, so it's good to hear that you're gonna let apt are continue to focus on data value as opposed to veritas value. Right talk. Talk to me a little bit. About what Does that analytics piece really mean? Howard Customers going to use it? How are they using it today? How are they gonna >> let me carry that? Said is roughly 30,000 unique metrics that we actually gather across the whole I t infrastructure and we'll look at a classic use cases. One of exposure. What? A lot of companies been enormous amount of money on the data protection infrastructure. The using disparity, tools and technologies they don't always go with. One platform like net backup is an example, right? And so with that, come challenges because there's gonna be gaps they might be backing up a Windows server where they're the backup policy says they're just backing up. The C drive will interrogate VM, where all the hyper visor will look at the network and see that there's a D Dr attached to that volume as well. And there's no backup data protection policy. So enormous amount of exposure if they tried to do a restore, obviously, from the d Dr where there's no protection, right from a cost perspective, there's an enormous amount of white space problem in the storage industry. More and more companies are moving from spinning distal flash arrays. A lot of companies is struggling with How do I protect those old flash A raise the using snapshots that using cloud they're tearing to the cloud the using different backup products. Obviously, we'd prefer that they used their backup, but with our software, we can provide that that inside across the entire data protection framework and storage and show you where is your risk? Where is your inefficiency, where you double protecting things into spending too much, much money? This whole notion of data protection is transaction. A lot of people do what's called distant, distant eight still being voted off site. How do you know that all those transactions are successful? How do you know you can restore based on those s L A's and tying that into you? See, M d B. That's what appetite does. >> So I'ma throw a little bit of a curveball here. So having worked within 90 worked with N i t organizations, it can be I ke historically can has been rolled to the compartmentalizing segment you administrated for servers in Australia for storage of people who are administrating applications and and subsystems. And the cloud is munge ing a fair amount of that together. But one of the places that has always required coordination, collaboration and even more important practice has been in the area of restore firms were shops that did not practice how they would restore, you know, hopefully they never had a problem. But if they did have a problem, if they hadn't practiced that process, they would likely we're not gonna be successful in bringing the business up. Gets even more important digital business. Can you give us a little bit of visibility into how this combination taking the metadata, the metrics of visibility. Taking the high quality service is bringing them together is going to streamline, restore within their prices. >> So first, let me address the first point you made, which is what I call the rise of the versatile is too right. So there are no more specialists in certain jobs. The versatile listen, the cloud or in virtual tend to do three or four jobs when there's back up our story virtualization itself on DDE. What the's Verceles want is to explain an easy barton to restore their VM environment or their big data. And my mother there Hadoop environment. They're not really worried. As a central I t. Team that Hey, what am I going to do with the entire data estate? How did I restore that? So that's the first step. Second step, as the world of I t gets more more complicated on the rise of the worst list continues to happen. Thes folks want to be able to have a resiliency plan. They want to be able to rehearse these restores right, and if they don't have a resiliency plan built in if the data protection is so siloed and does not help them build a resiliency plan. And to end that restore is not gonna be successful. Likely? Right. And that's where Veritas and companies like Veritas come in to help them build those resiliency plans and to end. >> But let me take you back to so the financial industry, for example, there are rules about how fast you you have to be able to restore. I gotta believe that visibility into data that is a value level can help set priorities. Because sometimes you want to bring up this application of this class of applications of this class of users of functions before you bring up those so does does apt are apt are going to provide even greater clarity in the crucial restore >> at 70. One of the biggest challenges for >> a lot of companies with restores is actually finding the data. We had a classic use case with a large Fortune 10 company where they had a bunch of service that were being backed up. There were bolted off the tape, and then it was obviously a different backup product they were using. The actually lost the catalog. The data was still there on tape. They had millions of tapes in the vaults, and they used apt title, identify the barcodes and recover that data literally within a matter of hours. And so not only can we find you your freshest copy the most recent copy, if that's what you want, but we can find where is your data? Because in a lot of cases there's multiple replications, multiple copies of the data across all sorts of assets within your >> infrastructure. Interesting. So last thoughts. When we have you back in the Cube in a year, Where you guys going? Big? >> Hey, listen, the two things that I talked about we're going to continue to expand the support of the ecosystem. The world of I t. Whether it's on Prem virtual or in the cloud with Apt are we? We're going to continue to invest in the artificial Intelligence and ML capabilities are not just apt are but all of that tosses ecosystem and you'll see amore integrated approach on the platform based approach on standardization When we come here >> next, guys, thank you so much. Great conversation. Thanks for being here in the Cube to talk about this important relation between data tooling and sources of business value. Rick Clark is the vice president of the outdoor business unit. Used to be the CEO of actor, but now the vice president. The outdoor business unit Veritas. Josie Stroop is vice president of marketing of Veritas. Once again, guys, thanks very much for being here. Thank you so much for having us. And once again, I'm Peter Burgers. You've been listening to another cube conversation until next time.

>> live from Orlando, Florida It's the que covering accelerate nineteen. By important, >> Welcome back to the cubes. Continuing coverage of Fortinet Accelerate twenty nineteen. Live from Orlando, Florida Lisa Martin with Peter Births and we're pleased to welcome back to the Cube. One of our alumni. John Madison, the executive vice president of Products and Solutions from Fortinet. John, It's great to have you back on The Cube >> is great to be here again. >> Lots of momentum. That fourteen that is coming into twenty nineteen with I can't believe we're in April. Already, lots of growth in revenue product revenue was up. You guys talked about the expansion of the partner network with some of your fabric ready partners on already today. You talked about this third generation and security. How fortunate is uniquely delivering that for our viewers who you weren't didn't have the opportunity to attend. Your keynote kind of talked to us about that in this hybrid world. How is supporting that delivering this third generation? What makes you guys difference? >> Yeah, so we talk about the third generation now. Everyone has different generations. That's fine. We call it the security driven networking, and it's really the Genesis ofthe forty nine for a long time in bringing together networking and security into one place. I think these days or in the past, people have built out the networks, the network layer. Then they try and connect users and applications. And they go, Wait a minute, this person security over here in a bit, over here and over there in our mind, start with both. Start with a security driven networking concept. Make sure it works end to end, and that will be the most sophisticated, most secure application and network you can have. >> And what enable supporting that to deliver this unique. Because a number of times today and Ken's key nodes, I think Patrice as well. I can't recall if yours competition came up where the audience was shown the strength in numbers that fourteen that has what makes us unique and what you're delivering. One of >> the key differentiators from the start is being making sure we can run a routing stacks. Sometimes today he referred to as ehs tea. When Stax or so security stacks in a very small footprint, and to do that, you need to spend a lot of money on what we call security processes which go inside our appliances, but to make sure that runs very fast. But having said that, I definitely think customer is going to be in a hybrid world forever for a very long time, at least anyway, where not only appliances but also virtual machines and FBI security. We also talk about this fabric concept that ables to cover the incomplete digital attack surface. So there's a very important point, and we find a lot of customers now agreed that they want to consolidate. They want to make it simpler. They need to move faster to this digital world, and anyway, you have to do that is through a consolidated >> approach. So let's build on this. They want to consolidate. They want to make it simpler, more common, and how the policies and management now along comes. Yet what's the dynamic there? >> But what's happening is that all the people referred to the perimeter disappearing. Okay, that's happening to a certain extent because data's moving into cloud. You've got different one implementations, but what's happening when you do that is to creating New Edge is a really good example, a zesty wherein which used to be very closed off. The one used to be something that connects branch offices back to the data center, but nobody got involved in that. Well, now you're opening up that when two different types of transport mechanism you're creating an edge I always refer to these edges is being created by different trust levels. There is a maybe a secure trust level here, less trust here. It creates an edge, and you absolutely need to protect all those edges. >> Would give us an example that So, for example, when you say differentiated trust levels, my edge might be at a customer location. Is that kind of what versus my edge might be in a branch office? Is that what you mean by different trust level? Push that concept for >> you know, It's more, for example, if I got a branch office and I've got one connective ity going back to my data center that's encrypted and secure. But I've also opened up connected to the Internet, the trust level between that encrypted link on my connection to the to the Internet's very different Internets open. Anyone can see they're so that trust level between those two is very different. and that's what creates the edge. >> And so, therefore, that becomes a key feature in how we design different edge implementations. It >> is. It's also a key requirement on what type of deployment Mody use have appliances have virtual machines. We have clouds, containers. AP eyes going forward. I'm finding that customers are still very reluctant to put software implementations of firewalls against the Internet. Appliances are hardened. They run faster. Having said that, inside the cloud, obviously, and inside software defined data centers virtual fine. >> Where some of those customer concerns that you're hearing >> well, I think what happens is, you know, if you putting a piece of software against the Internet, it's open to all sorts of attack. It's the same as giving I P addresses to anything. It's like a factory that creates an edge as well, and you need to harm that age against that. >> And how can Estevez When How Why is this such a crucial component of digital transformation? >> You know, sometimes markets are over hyped. I remember the Casby marketplace a few years ago. It just was a feature. To be honest, I think sd one extremely important. The reason is important is the SD one controller. That controller eventually tells users and devices how to get to the applications. And so I tell customers that investment for you is extremely important. You need to own it. You need to make sure it's flexible. Need to make sure it's secure. And so I think the SD, where marketplace or one edge is the kind of larger term for it is extremely important investment for customers. Do >> you anticipate that? I mean, you guys invested. You guys put forward a lot of products, made a number of different announcements again, going back to that notion of simplicity, that notion of consolidation. What is the breaking point for your typical group in terms of the complexity of that they can accommodate and absorbed? When we start adding additional function within the overall network, especially from a security standpoint, >> well, I think it's a bit broken already. They're really struggling to keep up from our perspective. No, today we announced our forty or sixty twos are major operating system, and what we try and do is consolidate functionality as much as possible. Inside our fabric through a single console, there was single operations capability, so it's easier for the operations people. For this critique people to implement things and find information. Ross implementing order made in mechanisms like security ratings. We should do a background run off best practices, for example, that make it again easier for those those teams to run a full analysis. What's going on? >> So was it about three hundred features roughly roughly >> accountable individually? >> Okay, good. We'LL do a recount of that, but a tremendous amount of feature addition to forty OS announced today. What are some of the things business outcomes? Peter and I were talking about outcomes with several of our guests earlier. Business outcomes, New revenue streams New product's going to market faster, the also being able to become less reactive, maybe more proactive in terms of security codes. Can you walk us through some of the outcomes that fourteen customers can expect to achieve from some of the O. S announcement in the handsome? It's already >> talked about one, which was the consolidation, which means they can do multiple things with single platform us, an important one for them. Also, some of the some of the cost savings around that's on the operational cost savings. I think also for our partners. For example, they like the fact that we're keeping that we keep adding services on top of that fabric. They can take those services, then apply them to their customers and make sure they can add value inside as well. So there's two angles to it. The one is making sure our customers are better protected. They can consolidate, save money, invest better training and then to our partners so that they can provide more value to their customers. >> So one of the things we're talking about is the fact that you have invested in a six it's and security processing units and content processing units, etcetera, that are capable of accelerating the rate at which these crucial security algorithms run. That opens up That creates additional capacity to add more function both for you as well as your partners. Are you starting to see some of your ecosystem grow faster as they better exploit that inherent power and performance that you have within your appliances and devices? >> Definitely. I think we're seeing new partners come from new areas. It also fragments of it, and that's why we announced this new partner initiative going forward, which is a bit more customizable, but but I, you know, I do think that going forward, both our customers and our partners are looking for more of an architecture approach again. If you go back five years, here's a box and off you go and install it, and we're good on again When you saw the security threats. Yes, we produce a point solution to fix the normal way. Keep moving on. They're now looking at architectures over the next five years, known only just cybersecurity architectures but Network Inc architectures, storage architectures and all coming together. So we definitely need to train our partners. I think here we had over fifty of are what we call Network's network security expert. Eight. It's the highest level of architecture and half of the partners, But going forward, we see much more partner involvement in architecture approach on. Our customers want that because they don't want to have a point solution that's out of date in a year's time or a new threat comes along and makes it redundant. >> So how are you? You mentioned you mentioned network security and storage. What other things are starting to inform that architectural approach that you're taking. >> It's everything now. So we know the factories now a completely automated all that. If utilities of I P addresses are running almost all the way down to the end point, just everything has more flexibility and more open eso. Definitely All that information's bouncing around inside I ot devices inside the wire inside data centers on all that data needs protecting. That's the key of protecting the data. And to do that again, we keep saying you need tohave. An integrated approach to networking and security >> Has the customer work with forty Net and your partner ecosystem to achieve that integrated approach. Assuming that there is a, you know, an enterprise out there that's got a spectrum of hybrid multiplied environment with the spectrum of Security point Solutions pointed it in a different components of an infrastructure. How do you help them on that journey of taking the many disparate security solutions and leveraging the power of fourteen and your partners to get that integrated, truly integrated, consolidate consolidated view? It's a couple >> of steps, maybe, maybe many steps. The first one is, oh, customers don't want to throw everything else straightaway. So what they want to do is build to integrating Connect. So we have some of our partners. Here, for example, are fabric ready partners way have connectors. We build into their platforms and orchestration systems, and that's their first step. Once they get there, they start looking across to see what they can to consolidate. So can they take a specific solution from this and I'm bringing inside? And then eventually they start to look at the long term architecture if they're moving APS to the cloud or they want to open up their wear or the one who provide kind of SD functionality inside their branch, So it's definitely a phase approached. I don't see many customers. Some customers would take an application and created from scratch inside the cloud. They can't do that with their infrastructure, the kind just completely wipe it clean. Start again. It's definitely more of a phase approach. >> So if you think about the face approach on you, talk way heard from, uh, we heard from the sales of sport side the notion that the S P s the service providers want greater customization. The enterprise wants a different level of access to the core technologies, so that they could do not customization. Not exactly remember Jack with the term was what What degree will customers retain control over how that architecture gets implemented versus what degree is going to get baked into the stack itself? A >> bit of >> both, I think, you know, for most customers, they're running towards a digital platform on. They need to own the digital powerful. If they give up complete control, how do they control that destiny going forward? So they want to own the digital platform, but they haven't got the resources to do everything. So that allows saw some to service providers and carriers. Some of the partners, for example. But I'm going to keep coming back to this. They want to get to a point in five years time, but they've got a digital footprint, is very flexible, but they also want to make sure it's very secure because as you open up that digital footprint, you opening up all these different edges. Inside the network, >> it's coherent, which is the are contested approach. Yes, because if they don't have a coherent approach to doing it, they don't know what interfaces are or are not competent, and that includes interfaces with partners. >> Yeah, they have to look forward and say I'm gonna implement X amount in the cloud. Arnot gonna have some edge compute going on here. I want to shake. Make sure my branches have the best quality of service for these certain applications that go back to this. So they would look at all those parameters and an architect, something from there. >> So we know that security network, security app, security info, security cloud security is our imperatives for every industry. But I didn't notice that the breakouts today feature. I think there's a couple of vertical features healthcare, financial services, retail. I was just curious. Are theirs just great use cases that show the potential power of forty nets technologies? Or are those industries that are either early adopters or maybe more leading edge? Because they have such a tremendous amount of data that needs to be secured as their ecosystem does this? >> Yeah. So the industry verticals, I think I think for the very large ones, they're very similar. All of them have I ot this expanding order and wanna have a flexible land system. Almost got something. Some computer power in the cloud and the edge going forward. So I know there's differences and industries. For the very large enterprises, it's the problem. Seems the same. This huge organizations, and they have all of these things going on in the right corner at you. Calm down, Toa mid enterprise. I think there's more reason to consolidate. But you seymour differences in the way the approach, things like health care that really, really focused on that healthcare kind of security of devices inside hospitals, et cetera. Education. Oh, they need to connect in these big data banks. Transfer the research information. So big organizations, I say pretty much the same problem. Midsize organizations become more relevant to the specific industry. >> Well, John, thank you so much for carving out some time to speak with Peter and need Today. We appreciate that. And it's exciting to see and feel the mo mentum the forty Niners bringing into twenty nineteen. >> Well, thanks for inviting me. >> Our pleasure. We want to thank you for your time is well for Peter. Boris. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube

>> live from Orlando, Florida It's the que covering accelerate nineteen. Brought to you by important. >> Welcome back to the Cube. We air live in Orlando, Florida, for accelerate border, not accelerate twenty nineteen. Lisa Martin with Peter Burroughs And we're pleased to welcome back to the Cube. Chief information Security officer See, So from Fortinet fell quite Phil. Thank you so much for joining Peter and me on the Cube today. >> Thanks for much. >> So lots of news, Lots of buzz. You can hear a lot of the folks behind us in the Expo hall here. We've had probably, I think five or six or seven guests today. So far you are on the front lines as to see so afforded it talking with si sos. I'd love to get your your view on what are some of the things they're top of mind for si sos today. The challenge is that they're facing and how are they looking to for doughnut to mitigate this challenge is >> the good news is that the solution sets not as complicated a cz youthink So all the sea says and senior people I talked to are very much focused on How can they reduce complexity, And how can they better leverage automation? I know there's some overlap between those two things, but they care quite a bit about that. Why? Because with less complexity, there's less mistakes with less complexity. There's less optics, right costs, costs for people and then with automation. It also helps with the op ex problem. But automation also allows humans to do things that humans you're better doing things. That and let's machines do things that their better doing that. So, complexity management, Lebanese automation are really top of mind. Of course, you know the next level down, you really need to do segmentation. Well, you need to have good visibility, need to inspection something that But I'd say those couple things are definitely top of mind, no matter who you talked to. >> But one of the things that's especially important about this issue complexity is that the threat surface goes to value, right so that, as you think about I ot as you think about Mohr devices, Mohr elements, et cetera, the threat surface is going to go up the on ly way that you're going to be able to bring that in in a managed way that delivers consistent value without dramatically exploding amount of risk is to reduce the complexity of the rest of the threat >> surface. Thie. If you're trying to place the face the problem of of, of speed and scale, you have to adopt the solutions of automation in integration you need a strategy on. Of course, hope is never a strategy, and so you need to leverage these technologies to do that. Instead, it's all about automation integration, >> right on this notion of the threats surface going to values, gotta have some mean si SOS sort of. Some of the ones that I'm talking to are using terminology like that. Maybe not that concept directly, but they want to make sure that whatever task that they're performing, whatever, uh, whatever risked their engendering or dealing with has some corresponds back to value. Are you seeing that as well? >> Yeah, and since we're talking about value, the end point is becoming a whole lot more interesting in terms of value. So traditionally we think of the endpoint is being a place where there's desktops and then laptops and tablets, and now smartphones, and they've always been part of our cyber domain. But there's this new thing that's happening, I think just left of end point. And it's where there's going to be the heavy instrumentation of physical processes and things. So it's starting with OT operational technology. It's going to be magnified by I ot and, of course, building automation. And so all of a sudden, the definition of value, I think, is going to be places that can collect data about physical processes and things, protect that data and then commoditize it. So value is moving further, further and out into the endpoint defined as thie, a collection of information about physical processes, something so I call this environment cyber physical or, more specifically, more catchy. SciFi right. It's where cyber data, physical data will be intermingled to provide value and efficiencies to customers and things like that. It's a really important area that's the new in point >> in physics. We talk about transducers, right? The transducer is something that takes one form of energy and turns into another form of energy so they could perform a different kind of work. We're talking about what we call information transducers the idea, take one form of information and turn it into another form of information so that it can perform work that's seminal to this notion that you're describing with the side fi. >> That's a >> great analogy. I haven't heard it described that way before. It's kind of like, you know, back in the day where where people use fire to heat and people used sales to move things right. And one day >> it was a more >> wins, right? Wait, move sales. Sorry. Wings. Yeah. Okay. And, uh, someone saw the story. As the story goes, someone saw a pot on the fire, a kettle full of water boil and the lid of the pop move. So they realized I can use heat to move it. So they started integrating different ways of doing things to achieve new effects. And I think that's what you're talking about. He used the word trans transducer, but I think it's the same thing. And how can you use things previously kept separate to do things that you previously couldn't D'Oh. >> So let's talk about this SciFi era C y dash p H y. For those watching at home, what are some of the security challenges that this brings, but also the opportunities to be uncovered by that boiling point analogy. >> Yeah, if you don't mind, I'LL start with the start with positives right where the was a potential benefits to society. So we are all of us and everyone behind us. We're creatures, the physical domain and the opportunities that there will be new data connected about this physical domain that can affect his very personally. So in cyberspace, its ultimate a virtual world. So there could be compromises in cyberspace. That effect is in cyber ways, but when you have compromises in the physical domain, it could be a lot more personal. So let's say that you have a medical device or you have a something else that instruments the temperature, heat, humidity, vector, you name it. Failures in those areas can have a really profound effect on a negative way in this physical oriented domain. So now the flip side of that is because it has a very, very positive effect, Right? Thes healthcare devices could bring new conveniences or perhaps even help address some very important things where they'd be physical or mental disabilities weaken instrument very heavily how we create food products. And so maybe this heavy instrumentation of how you create food can help address world hunger. I know I'm getting kind of heavy about this, but heavy instrumentation of this physical domain has a lot of promise. Now back to the other side. It also has a lot of responsibility involved, right, because, as I mentioned earlier, we're creatures of the physical domain. So if you get it wrong, you could mess up something really important to our health. Care for our transportation, Andi. We also have a very strong feeling towards privacy. At some point, collecting too much about us physically is just too much. So you need to make sure that that any sense data's you have privacy protections built it. So like anything with great opportunity. There's great challenges involved. But by giving their name and starting described, this challenge is we are. We're one step down the path, I think. >> But if we take that and then turn it into a set of cyber security challenges, no secure network challenges, that one of the other things you describe is we're constantly learning about what are the characteristics of a good, competent, reasonable interface between the physical and digital worlds. That knowledge then has to be put back into how we handle network security. >> That's right. I like your use of the word knowledge. And earlier today I gave a talk about something I'm calling a digital big bang. It's an analogy of that. We had a digital big bang fifty years ago where an explosion of data is among us and there's some challenges will get back that in a second. The analogy is thie cosmic big bang of fourteen billion years ago. And it wasn't until we started certain had a quest for knowledge about the fundamental elements of the cosmic Big Bang and the hard sciences behind it. Physics, chemistry, biology, things like that that we actually started obtaining an accumulating knowledge. So I think to your point, there's a lot of knowledge accumulation that we need to start a quest for in this cyber physical domain. And that's that's all about treating cybersecurity more like a science rather than an art. And I think this cyber SciFi domain is a great place to start practicing that accumulating knowledge in a very, very scientific way, build on the build on the successes of our our forefathers. I could say >> Sorry if I can build on this for one second. Sorry, Lisa, that the entropy gets everything in the end. But isn't it interesting that the process of creating Mohr information creating more knowledge and then securing it is our main fight against entropy? Right. That's how we create increase optimization of our resources. How we get Maura out of less on DH. That seems to me to be an especially important thing here. A CZ we think about it is how we utilize that knowledge, share it and in so doing security so that we're sharing inappropriately. >> There's a there's a great saying. I'm sure you're familiar with each of you. It's called. I use it often. Data is the oil the twenty first century, right? So the last century, those who could find oil explored it put it good use and protected dominated that century. Let's fast forward to the twenty first century. I think the same words apply data right. Those who can find it generate wisdom from it, insight from it and protect it will dominate in a good way the twenty first century. So, on the way you were going to do that. This is the collective we is bias. You said Collect, Ate it. Make it better. Send it back out, bring it back in. Make it better. Send it back out. It's a somewhat circular, but I think it's a very, very healthy example of, ah, circular augmentation. >> So don't think I want to touch on a little bit with you. Feel before we let you go is we talked about knowledge a minute ago and sharing that knowledge forty nights Very dedicated to education. Educating your customers, educating your partners When you're talking with si SOS and we know that there's an ostensible skills got with cyber security. What are some of the solutions that you talked to those customers that like Hey, this is how fourteen that nurse ecosystem partners can help you here. Address this so you can leverage the power of that data to, As you said, you know, for the twenty first century, for example, data becomes the new oil. What's that education conversation like there's >> a There's a long game in a short game, you know, the short game is about leveraging like we talked about a few minutes ago. Speed, speed, automation, integration, too. Compliment the shortage of human beings right rely machines, moron for what machines we're good at on DH. Take the humans, the humans, the steel personnel and have them do the higher order thinking. So the near term game. It's foreign. It's really well. Pasha provide our customers is speed, automation and integration. So that's the short game. Long game is about creating, Ah, larger workforce or larger population of folks who could all be construed contribute to this great new world we've been talking about. And that's training. And that's education. And I think, you know important. It's also, you know, working the long game as well, with some near term training at multiple levels for folks in in the networking world, but were also part of something called the World Economic Form West's Center for Cyber Security. We're founding member, and there were trying to create a long game where we can help educate a whole lot of people on cybersecurity and create the future. Workforce is in the long game. So short term long game, both her important >> except well, Phil, thank you so much for joining Peter and me on the cute this afternoon. We appreciate your time. >> Thanks again. It was nice. Nice being back and >> excellent. Our pleasure for Peter. Boris. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube

>> Live from Orlando, Florida It's the que covering Accelerate nineteen. Brought to you by important >> Welcome back to the Cubes Coverage of Fortinet. Accelerate twenty nineteen. Live from Orlando, Florida I'm Lisa Martin with Peter Burress, and we're welcoming to the keep for the first time. Jeff Fully senior business development manager from Siemens. Jeff. Thanks for joining Peter and me today. >> Thanks for having me appreciate >> it. So everybody knows Seaman's in some form or fashion or capacity. Ah, here we are in a cyber security event. Talk to us a little bit about what Seamen's and Fortinet are doing together as partners and a little bit about your role in business. >> Sure, so the organization the part of semen that I'm a part of, is more of a digital industries. So what we do is ah, lot of NT operational technology environment area. So it's it's more of the harsh environments oil and gas, waste water, rail transportation. So we do a lot of the communication and the cyber security around that. We're working with Fortinet in order to bring the best of the practices on cybersecurity into that OT environment. So we're doing a collaboration between the two because there's that communication that needs to happen. They still need that access point into at OT environment >> Now. Explain why? Because because, you know, guys have grown up presuming that everything was going to be connected and a lot of business leaders presume that everything's going to be connected. The okey guys have had to work in a very, very different world where they had to do real time work, sometimes for thirty years. So take us a little bit through that dynamic. And why is it that today we actually Khun, start having conversations about how these two things come together, work together and generate value together? >> Sure, so typically from operational technology environment when they put something together, is normally for a twenty or thirty year span. They want to put something in the network and the environment that's going to last. That's going to be out there. It's not. They don't change it. They don't upgrade it normally, as they do in the ninety environment, which typically has like a five year life cycle. So in OT environment, what's happening? Noah's know times are changing and all these cyber attacks are happening. They're being mandated to do this. A good example is, in two thousand five, President Obama signed into a legislative order that you, we must in the US secure critical infrastructure and part of that securing that, saying We're going to make sure that you know we're not going to be happy because in the utility market, if we take down four of the major interconnects between their power grid than that stated that us had become a third world country in eight days. So what we're doing is >> not do that. >> No, we're trying to help prevent that. So by doing so, we need to add security. And historically, from noti environment, it's always been about there's not been remote access. There's not been that connectivity. It's always been about electrical and mechanical devices. But now is these devices are getting smarter. They're getting Mohr intelligent. There's more information to get out of it. You get more efficiency and more information out of so you can know. Do your job better. You could do remote access. And like in Florida, here we have a bunch of hurricanes. There's the ability to say after a hurricane, I could get remote access or I could do that communication out to these devices where you wouldn't be able to do periodically in the past. So because of that, because connectivity we need to start securing our infrastructure to make sure that no, as we get access to that potential, that the bad guys get access to those devices, too. So we're working with our product portfolio and partners like Fortinet in order to make sure that we're applying the best of the security in the O t world. >> So when this convergence, we're talking probably with folks who are not used to change. Change is hard for everybody. However, as you said and back in two thousand five became a presidential mandate. But also it >> was two thousand fifteen >> two thousand five. Obama signed in tow the listen president till two thousand. And I'm sorry. >> Thank you for the mass >> housing one. >> Yeah, just years ago on the math expert. So just a few years ago, there was this mandate from President Obama which we clarified was only four years ago. So but historically, folks that are not used to having to change system so quickly. Yet here's this mandate. There's also this increasing abundance of separate tax. How do you have those, I presume, difficult conversations with Theo Teesside about the opportunity for OT convergence and the benefits and why they have to get on board with this. >> So historically, from the OT side, they've been very reluctant to do something like this. They want to own their own environment. They want to do that. It's always been the perception that if you bring that cyber security of the world into that OT environment, it's going to hinder their operations. But that's not really the case. The convergence of T and O. T has been happening for decades now. I started my job seem it's in two thousand in the telecom world, and we were doing that convergence of n ot back in two thousand when we're doing voiceover. I pay right because that was happening back then. So this convergence of Tino Tee is It's an ongoing thing. It's just in. Different markets are different industries, so now that we're doing that, we're bringing it in there. They're starting to have that conversation, but then it becomes a really who owns that The operation are who owns that security? No ot still wants to drive their own. They want to own their own. Where I saying, Look, I know we have the knowledge we have experience. Let's help you get there So there's generally a demarcation point that they've come to an agreement on where I Teo say we're going to help you to this point. And then you can own all the critical assets out on the far end. >> So let's talk about that demarcation point. What constitutes what characterizes that demarcation point? What are where are we today? Because we're moving from hardwired, uh, thirty year footprint to increasingly wireless, uh, faster. We're moving towards that, but we're how far our way when you talk to customers. What is what are the attributes of that demarcation point? It's >> interesting because we sew it. That goes everything we saw of customers that are on dialogue, communication, serial communication, Ethernet fiber, wireless. Lt s o. There's a broad range of that we call the pipe. So you know the pipe is the communication just between the side down to the OT side really helps to find that demarcation is when you get down to what are the critical assets, what's really the operation or what's making money for that company on those of the assets, which really the operational organization's own and then the side really provides that communication down to that to that ball. >> Got it. So it's really business specific. But are we starting to see Are we started to see? Well, it's got a little bit more processing power or it's got a little bit more. There's the's security attributes that are associated with it or ot guys picking up on T related security, starting elements of it faster than others >> they are on. But really, it's it's ah, it's region and as industry specific and it's really what's driving it So like in the U. S. Like I meant in the utility sector, three utility sector has requirements called no exit, and these narcs IP requirements said you must do these things and they get very specific to the point of. You must have something that will detect anti virus or malware. You must do this if you look into Canada. Canada just recently passed away. Be requirements for Ontario and those are based upon framework cyber security framework to do that. So it's really debate the industry that they're in and the region that they're in. That's what's really driving that our how deeper and far they're going to go. >> And it goes back to your original point that it's being driven by regulatory edict or a past exposure and trying to make sure it doesn't happen again. >> They don't want to make the news, and they don't want to be pushed by the government. But those were really the two things in the operational technology or environment that's really driving for that cyber. >> Thank you, Sierra, One of your favorite success stories that really highlights the opportunities that O. T. And I t Convergence have enabled for customers of forty nine Seaman's >> Oh yeah, there's, ah again because I'm global experience. No, I've got around the world, but actually one of the favorites is Actually, there's two of them that have happened just here in North America, Oneness in Texas and one is in Canada. And both of these requirements came to say that they had a specific date, that they needed to make requirements to meet the regulatory otherwise, that they were going to get fined and they came to us and it is both home were pretty last minute. So what we're able to do is to say, Look, we have this platform that's rated for harsh environment. That's no into your networking to provide that communication. So then what we could do is we can work with our partners, put that application on that OT environment and then install and get certified for your application. So there was two of you, Like I said, one in the U. S. And one in Canada. Which way made the deadline's where they came back and said, No, thank you very much, very appreciative. >> And how quickly were you able to get this up and running is that they didn't miss the deadline and we're able to certain gleanings value from this. >> I just did a write up on one. We got a phone call on a Friday that they needed to provide a solution. So we worked over the weekend, and on Monday we proposed a solution. So once you do that, no, obviously they need to go through their value chain to get to sign offs, and we have to go through our process. But it was within thirty days were able to install it make their deadline and make sure that they were compliant. >> That's a pretty good marketing message to deliver that you guys could enable Such It is such a big convergence and it's a month's period >> of thirty days. >> Pretty impressive. >> That was, That was That was one thing that I think we all worked out. There was a deadline. We all work toward that. It was a trusted partner thing, you know. The customer came to us, they were asking for some stuff. They trusted us to do that. So like I said, we worked over the weekend, help them do that. We felt we had the right solution to address their requirements and at the end of the day were ableto meet that thirty day deadline. >> But the trust is not just with you. It's not just a seaman's. It's with an expanding array of cos it Seaman's is working. That's correct. What is it like working with a company like Ford Net to try to ensure that these new domains that are characterized by enormous uncertainty, technological operational organisational are not undermined by challenges of crafting that sushi solution together in such ways, it can be implemented quickly and with a high degree facility. >> I think it's a great opportunity for saying it's important not to be working together only from the fact of Fortinet has got the history. They've got the technology. They've got the name in their market space on DH. They've got the capability to deliver that Siemens. And for if you look from our customer space in our environment, no, we're very well developed, well entrenched in our customer. So to be able to bring the technology and the experience and the know how and bring that those cyber security requirements which are now being pushed down into the OT environment in and no amount of time it's not. There's no development needed, there's no additional stuff fourteen and already has that knowledge from the space. So to bring that into the environment, it's very beneficial. I think both of us, in order to help drive their customer opportunities in our market. >> And they talked a lot this morning during the keynote about where they are from the competitive leadership perspective that was peppered, ah, lot throughout the first at least ninety minutes of the keynote. But presumably obviously everybody has choice. Everybody likes choice. Simons has choice there. I'm just curious to get your take on some of the announcements that came out today from Fortinet. Does that excite Seaman's? Were you involved in that? In terms of being able to take the next set of customers who have the same challenge that you describe with the Texas based on Canada based customers and show them we can help you together? Seaman's importing that transform in thirty days. >> I think it's very exciting with fourteen that's doing in the new capabilities and functional yet they're coming out with. I think that's really going to be able to enhance our offering because it's really a differentiator for us. If you look at us from the operational technology side, there's not a lot of people out there that can actually do with porting that's able to bring to the table. So all these additional features functionality that was coming out by Fortinet to be able to put it on to our platform and our environment and to be able to offer that in the operational technology side. So I think it's a big differentiator from our competitors for both forty and for seeming to be able to jointly provide this offering to our customers. >> Just one question about your competition. A lot of companies like Siemens, especially that especially strong in the OT space, not just your customers. But suppliers like yourselves have also struggled a bit as they try to find a Z trying navigate that way forward to convergence of tea. No tea on appropriate convergence of tea. No tea. What is it about Seamans that has allowed you to not stub your toe or cut off your leg? Like some of the competitors, >> I believe that's because we've had a long history in both the A I T o T space. If you look at the vertical, are the digital industry that we're in right now. It's been very much ot centric for the last twenty five thirty years, but we have seen minces No. Three hundred seventy nine thousand people worldwide strong. We're very embracing the newer technology and the newer capabilities myself coming. No, starting with Siemens twenty years ago with a nice background being able to bring that knowledge that ability and doing that convergence of the idea no t within Seaman's for so long. I think we understand our customers, and we've been listening to them. And then we're partnering up with companies like Fortinet. Health says, Bring that technology that capability to our customers >> said that expertise, that partnership, What's your recommendation has be wrapped things up here for customers who are at the precipice of being able to understand why I know Teenie to converge with your recommendation for them to tackle this challenge successfully. >> I think the best advice I could have is let's sit down and have that conversation. Let's see what the requirements are. Let's see what they're trying to accomplish because I believe with the solutions that Siemens has between communication, the network in the security and then they technology and the capability that forty nets bring to the table we can to help design a customized solution for their environment in order to make sure that they can address their cyber security needs >> and do so quickly. Well, Jeff, thank you so much for joining Peter and me on the cute this afternoon. We appreciate your time. >> Thank you for >> for Peter. Boris. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube

>> Announcer: Live from Vancouver, Canada. It's the CUBE. Coverage OpenStack Summit North American 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat, the OpenStack Foundation and its ecosystem partners. >> Stu: Welcome to SiliconANGLE Media's coverage of OpenStack Summit 2018. This is the CUBE. We're on day two of three days of live coverage. I'm Stu Miniman here with my co-host, John Troyer. Beautiful city here in Vancouver. There's been a bunch of parties last night, community things going on and to help us kind of set the stage for day two happy to welcome back to the program Lisa-Marie Namphy whose an OpenStack ambassador and also now a developer advocate with Portworx. Lisa, great to see you. >> Lisa: Thank you, guys, always great to be here. >> Stu: So, you're wearing a new logo ?????? Why don't you bring us up to speed on some of the many hats you're wearing. >> Lisa: Yeah, I joined the team at Portworx a few months back, super exciting, cognitive storage. If you want to run safe provocations like databases and containers, that's where Portworx comes in. So, it's a great space and as you know I've been in the cognitive space for a long time so I'm very happy to join the team of Portworx. >> Stu: I love, there's the open dev stuff going on here at the show. There was a keynote this morning, Forrest did a nice job of it. We'll actually have Immam on the CUBE tomorrow to talk some more about this, but you're at that nice intersection of how the developers fit into this, containers has been a hot discussion here for a few years, that whole cloud-native term that you've brought up, what is that mean to the OpenStack community, give us your level set as to what you see happening here in the OpenStack and beyond. >> Lisa: Yes, as you intimated I am still the tech ambassador for North America and have been for a long time, so I have seen this change coming, this progression, super-exciting at this conference how they've embraced those technologies that have been part of the story, but they really embraced at a very serious way as you saw from the keynotes yesterday. All the other technologies like works being done around containers, like Edge, ioT, all these wonderful stories that are getting showcased at this conference and customers and partners and communities coming together and working together, I think that's the most exciting part. >> John: Well, Lisa you run the meetup formally known as the Bay Area OpenStack meetup which just changed it name. Can you talk a little bit about that? >> Lisa: Yeah, well we just thought that, after looking at our schedule, and over the last two years I think that I've run 18 meetups on Kubernetes and Docker and Mesos and I just felt like networking and storage and all of the stuff we showcased I would keep. We didn't feel like the name was really reflective of the content that we were delivering and Cloud-native and Open-infrastructure is more of a broad term and that's the content that we've been delivering, and that's what the community has been wanting to talk about and wanting to come together over. So I changed the name. >> John: You guys have had great success, right? It's one of the biggest, or one of the biggest, meetup in this space. >> Lisa: It is, yeah, it's the world's largest ever tech issue group. We have over 6,000 members. >> John: People show up >> Lisa: They do. >> John: I've been to meetings. >> Lisa: A nice note to everybody, I didn't want anyone to panic, we still love OpenStack, and remember, OpenStack is a foundation of this, it was the first OpenStack meetup, but OpenStack is at the core of all of this technology, so it's built on OpenStack OpenStack's inside and so it's open infrastructure's a better, more encompassing title. >> Stu: I think that's great, we actually in some of the interviews we did yesterday, we had a COB provider from Australia and you go look around their website and it's not like they're saying, "Hey, OpenStack" all over the place, they're infrastructure and service for government and when you dig down underneath, what do you know, there's OpenStack there. Talk to a number of software companies that, when you dig into their IP, it's like "Oh, okay, we're using one of these projects from OpenStack." So, the premise I had had a few years ago is we know Opensource is a bunch of tools out there and it's not necessarily just like Linux permeated throughout the data center, OpenStack has that opportunity to that next generation of helping us to build everything from structure to service to all of these software products that are inside. >> Lisa: Absolutely and we saw during all those keynotes yesterday all the different projects when they did show what was being shown as the demo, all these projects coming together, maybe only two of them, that an OpenStack project, it's all of these communities coming together, working together, and it's kind of changed because everything's been focusing on business problems and this, I think, is the biggest shift that this shows. You know, these user communities not being so focused on the project that they're working on, but really focusing on use cases and trying to solve those problems, and now, I haven't said this to Lauren and Jonathan, I feel like when they pull the design from it out, I think that went a long way to taking away the project focus, because when you have a design summit and everyone runs off into their rooms to talk about cinder or nova or whatever it was they argue about the next release, that has all been removed and now its happening elsewhere and it really let the community come together and work together and bring all the technologies together. >> Stu: What do you, the conference in general, what's the vibe here? Obviously, we're in a beautiful place, everyone's really kind of stunned by the mountains everyone, not the first time though OpenStack Summit's been here in Vancouver, but what's the vibe, what's the feeling? >> Lisa: Yeah, it's so great to be back here. Congratulations on the trained whales that you've got for the free tram behind us. Vancouver, I mean, yeah Canada. It's just everyone's been so nice, so wonderful, it's so beautiful, wow, extremely happy to be back here. I think the Summit's been going great, you know. Non-dairy options at the coffee stations, I love that, too. They've thought of everything, the marketplace was booming last night, we had a little ambassador stand where people could come up and do a meet and greet and I was like pilled that there was so many people coming by for the whole hour. The energy has been wonderful and everybody feels involved. You know, this is a very communal feeling to this Summit. >> Stu: Great, to tell us about Portworx, give us the update there, how that fits into what's happening at the show. You've been lost in shows lately, you've got more coming up in the next month. >> Lisa: Absolutely, I mean, people just think okay it's an OpenStack summit, is it really going to be relevant? I have so many customers here, it's been fantastic to catch up with people and Portworx, it's a startup out of Spokane Valley, based in Los Altos and we have almost a hundred customers now and it's live in production, running Kubernetes in production and the problem with when you wanted to run those fateful applications, people think of containers as stateless traditionally, particularly Kubernetes, but what are you going to do with the data, right? The database is still super important so whether it's Postscript or MySequal or Kassberg or Santros, those fateful applications are really important and not the problem that Portworx solves. It's a cognitive storage company, but it's really beyond that, things you would expect from traditional VM, high availability, things like that, we can solve those problems if you want to run Postscript in a container. We worked really closely with Nasos, say resallas, the Kubernetes team with Docker. We'll be at DockerCon, the other, next week, and so we are actually doing the next meetup in the San Francisco Bay area. The first one we're going to bring all of these group together, we're doing it in conjunctions with our french and code press who run the production ready container, used to be container 101 meetup, so we're going to get together with them and with our Cloud-native open-infra user group. So, we're going to a meetup on June 6th, so I hope you guys come? >> John: Great, so I mean you said there's a lot of, going back to the conflict of business users, you know, folks who actually need to get stuff done, anything you're looking at in a conference in terms of the news, the clean release is out, so in terms of technologies, you're hearing about, talked about, buzz, the VTBU stuff, I don't know all what different, I know there's a lot of other storage news coming out this week, but anything that you guys are hearing in the air? >> Lisa: I mean, around again the adjacent technologies, CASA containers, a big focus here, and I hope that they're going to be a big focus, I hope I can finally run the first ever robotic containment meetup. We're going to have them do a hands-on lab at our OpenStack birthday party event on the "8th" I put that in quotes because it's a half-day hands-on lab training, it's sorry the 10th, July 10th, we want to focus on product containers, we want to focus on some of the new technology, Akrana, you heard me mention that yesterday. That's coming out, Edge, so Edge technology is huge, Vast was on stage again, right, talking about what they are doing, OpenDev as a subtrack of this constant or however they say that, it's super exciting. I think Boris Sunstach this morning, Boris is a sponsor Lawrence was a sponsor of that and I think the OpenDev community is really, it's bringing kind of of the developers and technology back into the fold and having this kind of of un-conference or sub-conference going on as a track, which is fantastic. I'm speaking tomorrow on the container track, container info-structure track, so super-excited about that it's also a track, but that's what I loved about this conference, about how they're really focusing on these kind of new and up-and-coming areas that are super hot. >> Stu: Lisa-Marie Namphy, really appreciate you helping us kick off day two coverage, so much these blendings of these communities helping the users put together the overall solution to get done what they need to get done. >> Lisa: Yeah, Bob Obasek of that foundation they've done a fantastic job, the energy of this summit has been fantastic. >> Stu: We've got a full lineup today, we've got practitioners, we've got the ecosystem, and for John Troyer I'm Stu Miniman. Thanks for watching the CUBE.

>> Announcer: Live, fro-- >> Announcer: Live from Vancouver, Canada it's theCUBE! Covering OpenStack Summit North America 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat, the OpenStack Foundation, and it's ecosystem partners. >> Hi and welcome to SiliconANGLE Media's production of theCUBE here at OpenStack Summit 2018 in Vancouver. I'm Stu Miniman with my cohost, John Troyer. We're here for three days of live wall-to-wall coverage at the OpenStack Foundation's show they have it twice a year John, pleasure to be with you again, you and I were together at the OpenStack show in Boston, a year ago, little bit further trip for me. But views like this, I'm not complaining. >> It's a great time to be in Vancouver, little bit overcast but the convention center's beautiful and the people seem pretty excited as well. >> Yeah so if you see behind us, the keynote let out. So John, we got to get into the first question of course for some reason the last month people are always Hey Stu where are you, what're you doing and when I walk through the various shows I'm doing when it comes to this one they're like, why are you going to the OpenStack show? You know, what's going on there, hasn't that been replaced by everything else? >> I got the same thing, there seems to be kind of a almost an antireligious thing here in the industry maybe more emotional perhaps at other projects. Although frankly look, we're going to take the temperature of the community, we're going to take the temperature of the projects, the customers, we got a lot of customers here, that's really the key here is that our people actually using this, being productive, functional, and is there enough of a vendor and a community ecosystem to make this go forward. >> Absolutely, so three years ago, when we were actually here in Vancouver, the container sessions were overflowing, people sitting in the aisles. You know containers, containers, containers, docker, docker, docker, you know, we went through a year or two of that. Then Kubernetes, really a wave that has taken over, this piece of the infrastructure stack, the KubeCon and CloudNativeCon shows, in general, I think have surpassed this size, but as we know in IT, nothing ever dies, everything is always additive, and a theme that I heard here that definitely resonated is, we have complexity, we need to deal with interoperability, everybody has a lot of things and that's the, choose your word, hybrid, multi-cloud world that you have, and that's really the state of opensource, it's not a thing, it's there's lots of things you take all the pieces you need and you figure out how to put 'em together, either buy them from a platform, you have some integrator that helps, so somebody that puts it all together, and that's where, you know, we live here, which is, by they way, I thought they might rename the show in the open, and they didn't, but there's a lot of pieces to discuss. >> Definitely an open infrastructure movement, we'll probably talk about that, look I loved the message this morning that the cloud is not consolidating, in fact it's getting more complicated, and so that was a practical message here, it's a little bit of a church of opensource as well, so the open message was very well received and, these are the people that are working on it, of course, but yeah, the fact that, like last year I thought in Boston, there was a lot of, almost confusion around containers, and where containers and Kubernetes fit in the whole ecosystem, I think, now in this year in 2018 it's a lot more clear and OpenStack as a project, or as a set of projects, which traditionally was, the hit on it was very insular and inward facing, has at least, is trying to become outward facing, and again that's something we'll be looking at this week, and how well will they integrate with other opensource projects. >> I mean John, you and I are both big supporters of the opensource movements, love the community at shows like this, but not exclusively, it's, you know, Amazon participating a little bit, using a lot of opensource, they take opensource and make it as a service, you were at Red Hat Summit last week, obviously huge discussion there about everything opensource, everything, so a lot going on there, let me just set for, first of all the foundation itself in this show, the thing that I liked, coming into it, one of the things we're going to poke at is, if I go up to the highest level, OpenStack is not the only thing here, they have a few tracks they have an Edge computer track, they have a container track, and there's a co-resident OpenDev Show happening a couple floors above us and, even from what the OpenStack Foundation manages, yes it OpenStack's the main piece of it, and all those underlying projects but, they had Katacontainers, which is, you know, high level project, and the new one is Zuul, talking about CI/CD, so there are things that, will work with OpenStack but not exclusively for OpenStack, might not even come from OpenStack, so those are things that we're seeing, you know, for example, I was at the Veeam show last week, and there was a software company N2WS that Veeam had bought, and that solution only worked on Amazon to start and, you know, I was at the Nutanix show the week before, and there's lots of things that start in the Amazon environment and then make their way to the on-premises world so, we know it's a complex world, you know, I agree with you, the cloud is not getting simpler, remember when cloud was: Swipe the credit card and it's super easy, the line I've used a lot of times is, it is actually more complicated to buy, quote, a server equivalent, in the public could, than it is if I go to the website and have something that's shipped to my data center. >> It's, yeah, it's kind of ironic that that's where we've ended up. You know, we'll see, with Zuul, it'll be very interesting, one of the hits again on OpenStack has been reinvention of the wheel, like, can you inter-operate with other projects rather than doing it your self, it sounds like there's some actually, some very interesting aspects to it, as a CI/CD system, and certainly it uses stuff like Ansible so it's, it's built using opensource components, but, other opensource components, but you know, what does this give us advantage for infrastructure people, and allowing infrastructure to go live in a CI/CD way, software on hardware, rather than, the ones that've been built from the dev side, the app side. I'm assuming there's good reasons, or they wouldn't've done it, but you know, we'll see, there's still a lot of projects inside the opensource umbrella. >> Yeah, and, you know, last year we talked about it, once again, we'll talk about it here, the ecosystem has shifted. There are some of the big traditional infrastructure companies, but what they're talking about has changed a lot, you know. Remember a few years ago, it was you know, HP, thousand people, billion dollar investment, you know, IBM has been part of OpenStack since the very beginning days, but it changes, even a company like Rackspace, who helped put together this environment, the press release that went was: oh, we took all the learnings that we did from OpenStack, and this is our new Kubernetes service that we have, something that I saw, actually Randy Bias, who I'll have on the show this week, was on, the first time we did this show five years ago, can't believe it's the sixth year we're doing the show, Randy is always an interesting conversation to poke some of the sacred cows, and, I'll use that analogy, of course, because he is the one that Pets vs Cattle analogy, and he said, you know, we're spending a lot of time talking about it's not, as you hear, some game, between OpenStack and Kubernetes, containers are great, isn't that wonderful. If we're talking about that so much, maybe we should just like, go do that stuff, and not worry about this, so it'll be fun to talk to him, the Open Dev Show is being, mainly, sponsored by Mirantis who, last time I was here in Vancouver was the OpenStack company, and now, like, I saw them a year ago, and they were, the Kubernetes company, and making those changes, so we'll have Boris on, and get to find out these companies, there's not a lot of ECs here, the press and analysts that are here, most of us have been here for a lot of time so, this ecosystem has changed a lot, but, while attendance is down a little bit, from what I've heard, from previous years, there's still some good energy, people are learning a lot. >> So Stu, I did want to point out, that something I noticed on the stage, that I didn't see, was a lot of infrastructure, right? OpenStack, clearly an infrastructure stack, I think we've teased that out over the past couple years, but I didn't see a lot of talk about storage subsystems, networking, management, like all the kind of, hard, infrastructure plumbing, that actually, everybody here does, as well as a few names, so that was interesting, but at the end of the day, I mean, you got to appeal to the whole crowd here. >> Yeah, well one of the things, we spent a number of years making that stuff work, back when it was, you know, we're talkin' about gettin' Cinder, and then all the storage companies lined up with their various, do we support it, is it fully integrated, and then even further, does it actually work really well? So, same stuff that went through, for about a decade, in virtualization, we went through this in OpenStack, we actually said a couple years ago, some of the basic infrastructure stuff has gotten boring, so we don't need to talk about it anymore. Ironic, it's actually the non-virtualized environments, that's the project that they have here, we have a lot of people who are talking bare metal, who are talking containers, so that has shifted, an interesting one in the keynote is that you had the top level sponsors getting up there, Intel bringing around a lot of their ecosystem partners, talking about Edge, talking about the telecommunications, Red Hat, giving a recap of what they did last week at their summit, they've got a nice cadence, the last couple of years, they've done Red Hat Summit, and OpenStack Summit, back-to-back so that they can get that flow of information through, and then Mark Shuttleworth, who we'll have on a little bit later today, he came out puchin', you know, he started with some motherhood in Apple Pi about how Ubuntu is everywhere but then it was like, and we're going to be so much cheaper, and we're so much easier than the VMwares and Red Hats of the world, and there was a little push back from the community, that maybe that wasn't the right platform to do it. >> Yeah, I think the room got kind of cold, I mean, that's kind of a church in there, right, and everyone is an opensource believer and, this kind of invisible hand of capitalism (laughs) reached in and wrote on the wall and, you know, having written and left. But at the end of the day, right, somebody's got to pay for babies new shoes. I think that it was also very interesting seeing, at Red Hat Summit, which I covered on theCUBE, Red Hat's argument was fairly philosophical, and from first principles. Containers are Linux, therefore Red Hat, and that was logically laid out. Mark's, actually I loved Mark's, most of his speech, which was very practical, this, you know, Ubuntu's going to make both OpenStack and containers simpler, faster, quicker, and cheaper, so it was clearly benefits, and then, for the folks that don't know, then he put up a couple a crazy Eddy slides like, limited time offer, if you're here at the show, here's a deal that we've put together for ya, so that was a little bit unusual for a keynote. >> Yeah, and there are a lot of users here, and some of them'll hear that and they'll say: yeah, you know, I've used Red Hat there but, you can save me money that's awesome, let me find out some more about it. Alright, so, we've got three days of coverage here John, and we get to cover this really kind of broad ecosystem that we have here. You talked about what we don't discuss anymore, like the major lease was Queens, and it used to be, that was where I would study up and be like oh okay, we've got Hudson, and then we got, it was the letters of the alphabet, what's the next one going to be and what are the major features it's reached a certain maturity level that we're not talking the release anymore, it's more like the discussions we have in cloud, which is sometimes, here's some of the major things, and oh yeah, it just kind of wraps itself in. Deployments still, probably aren't nearly as easy as we'd like, Shuttleworth said two guys in under two weeks, that's awesome, but there's solutions we can put, stand up much faster than that now, two weeks is way better than some of the historical things we've done, but it changes quite a bit. So, telecommunications still a hot topic, Edge is something, you know what I think back, it was like, oh, all those NFE conversations we've had here, it's not just the SDN changes that are happening, but this is the Edge discussion for the Telcos, and something people were getting their arms around, so. >> It's pretty interesting to think of the cloud out on telephone poles, and in branch offices, in data centers, in closets basically or under desks almost. >> No self-driving cars on the keynote stage though? >> No, nothing that flashy this year. >> No, definitely not too flashy so, the foundation itself, it's interesting, we've heard rumors that maybe the show will change name, the foundation will not change names. So I want to give you last things, what're you looking for this week, what were you hearing from the community leading up to the show that you want to validate or poke at? >> Well, I'm going to look at real deployments, I'd like to see how standard we are, if we are, if an OpenStack deployment is standardized enough that the pool of talent is growing, and that if I hire people from outside my company who work with OpenStack, I know that they can work with my OpenStack, I think that's key for the continuation of this ecosystem. I want to look at the general energy and how people are deploying it, whether it does become really invisible and boring, but still important. Or do you end up running OpenShift on bare metal, which I, as an infrastructure person, I just can't see that the app platform should have to worry about all this infrastructure stuff, 'cause it's complicated, and so, I'll just be looking for the healthy productions and production deployments and see how that goes. >> Yeah, and I love, one of the things that they started many years ago was they have a super-user category, where they give an award, and I'm excited, we have actually have the Ontario Institute for Cancer Research is one of our guests on today, they won the 2018 super-user group, it's always awesome when you see, not only it's like, okay, CERN's here, and they're doing some really cool things looking for the Higgs boson, and all those kind of things but, you know, companies that are using technology to help them attack the battle against cancer, so, you know, you can't beat things like that. We've got the person from the keynote, Melvin, who was up on stage talking about the open lab, you know, community, ecosystem, definitely something that resonates, I know, one of the reasons I pulled you into this show in the last year is you're got a strong background there. >> Super impressed by all the community activity, this still feels like a real community, lots of pictures of people, lots of real, exhortations from stage to like, we who have been here for years know each other, please come meet us, so that's a real sign of also, a healthy community dynamic. >> Alright, so John first of all, I want to say, Happy Victoria Day, 'cause we are here in Vancouver, and we've got a lot going on here, it's a beautiful venue, hope you all join us for all of the coverage here, and I have to give a big shout out to the companies that allowed this to happen, we are independent media, but we can't survive without the funding of our sponsors so, first of all the OpenStack Foundation, helps get us here, and gives us this lovely location overlooking outside, but if it wasn't for the likes of our headline sponsor Red Hat as well as Canonical, Kontron, and Nuage Networks, we would not be able to bring you this content so, be sure to checkout thecube.net for all the coverage, for John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman, thanks so much for watching theCUBE. (bubbly music)

>> Narrator: At the DataWorks Summit, Europe 2017. Brought to you by Hortonworks. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. We're here live from Munich, Germany at DataWorks 2017, Hadoop Summit formerly, the conference name before it changed to DataWorks. I'm John Furrier with my cohost Dave Vellante. Our next guest, we're excited to have Alan Nance who flew in, just for the CUBE interview today. Executive Vice President with Virtual Clarity. Former star, I call practitioner of the Cloud, knows the Cloud business. Knows the operational aspects of how to use technology. Alan, it's great to see you. Thanks for coming on the CUBE. >> Thank you for having me again. >> Great to see you, you were in the US recently, we had a chance to catch up. And one of the motivations that we talked with you today was, a little bit about some of the things you're looking at, that are transformative. Before we do that, let's talk a little about your history. And what your role is at Virtual Clarity. >> So, as you guys have, basically, followed that career, I started out in the transformation time with ING Bank. And started out, basically, technology upwards. Looking at converged infrastructure, converged infrastructure into VDI. When you've got that, you start to look at Clouds. Then you start to experiment with Clouds. And I moved from ING, from earlier experimentation, into Phillips. So, while Phillips, at that time had both the health care and lighting group. And then you start to look at consumption based Cloud propositions. And you remember the big thing that we were doing at that time, when we identified that 80% of the IT spend was non differentiating. So the thing was, how do we get away from almost a 900 million a year spend on legacy? How do we turn that into something that's productive for the Enterprise? So we spent a lot of time creating the consumption based infrastructure operating platform. A lot of things we had to learn. Because let's be honest, Amazon was still trying to become the behemoth it is now. IBM still didn't get the transition, HP didn't get it. So there was a lot of experimentation on which of the operating model-- >> You're the first mover on the operating model, The Cloud, that has scaled to it. And really differentiated services for your business, for also, cost reductions. >> Cost reductions have been phenomenal. And we're talking about halving the budget over a three year period. We're talking about 500 million a year savings. So these are big, big savings. The thing I feel we still need to tackle, is that when we re-platform your business, it should leave to agile acceleration of your growth path. And I think that's something that we still haven't conquered. So I think we're getting better and better at using platforms to save money, to suppress the expenditure. What we now need to do is to convert that into growth platform business. >> So, how about the data component? Because you were CIO of infrastructure at Phillips. But lately, you've been really spending a lot of time thinking about the data, how data adds value. So talk about your data journey. >> Well if I look at the data journey, the journey started for me, with, basically, a meeting with Tom Ritz in 2013. And he came with a very, very simple proposition. "You guys need to learn how to create "and store, and reason over data, "for the benefit of the Enterprise." And I think, "Well that's cool." Because up until that point, nobody had really been talking about data. Everyone was talking about the underlying technologies of the Cloud, but not really of the data element. And then we had a session with JP Rangaswami, who was at Salesforce, who basically, also said, "Well don't just think "about data lakes, but think also "about data streams and data rivers. "Because the other thing that's "going to happen here is that data's "not going to be stagnant in a company like yours." So we took that, and what happened, I think, in Phillips, which I think you see in a lot of companies, is an explosion across the Enterprise. So you've got people in social doing stuff. You got CDO's appearing. You've got the IOT. You've got the old, legacy systems, the systems of record. And so you end up with this enormous fragmentation of data. And with that you get a Wild West of what I call data stewardship. So you have a CDO who says, "Well I'm in charge of data." And you got a CMO who says, "Well I'm in charge of marketing data." Or you've got a CSO, says, "Yeah, "but I'm the security data guy." And there's no coherence, in terms of moving the Enterprise forward. Because everybody's focused on their own functionality around that data and not connecting it. So where are we now? I think right now we have a huge proliferation of data that's not connected, in many organizations. And I think we're going to hybrid but I don't think that's a future proof thing for most organizations. >> John: What do you mean by that? >> Well, if I look at what a lot of those suppliers are saying, they're really saying, "The solution "that you need, is to have a hybrid solution "between the public Cloud and your own Cloud." I thought, "But that's not the problem "that we need to solve." The problem that we need to solve is first of all, data gravity. So if I look at all the transformations that are running into trouble, what do they forget? When we go out and do IOT, when we go out and do social media analysis, it all has to flow back into those legacy systems. And those legacy systems are all going to be in the old world. And so you get latency issues, you get formatting issues. And so, we have to solve the data gravity issue. And we have to also solve this proliferation of stewardship. Somebody has to be in charge of making this work. And it's not going to be, just putting in a hybrid solution. Because that won't change the operating model. >> So let me ask the question, because on one of the things you're kind of dancing around, Dave brought up the data question. Something that I see as a problem in the industry, that hasn't yet been solved, and I'm just going to throw it out there. The CIO has always been the guy managing IT. And then he would report to the CFO, get the budget, blah, blah, blah. We know that's kind of played out its course. But there's no operational playbook to take the Cloud, mobile data at scale, that's going to drive the transformative impact. And I think there's some people doing stuff here and there, pockets. And maybe there's some organizations that have a cadence of managers, that are doing compliance, security, blah, blah, blah. But you have a vision on this. And some information that you're tracking around. An architecture that would bring it to scale. Could you share your thoughts on this operational model of Cloud, at a management level? >> Well, part of this is also based on your own analyst, Peter Boris. When he says, "The problem with data "is that its value is inverse to its half life." So, what the Enterprise has to do is it has to get to analyzing and making this data valuable, much, much faster then it is right now. And Chris Sellender of Unifi recently said, "You know, the problem's not big data. "The problem's fast data." So, now, who is best positioned in the organization to do this? And I believe it's the COO. >> John: Chief Operating Officer? >> Chief Operating Officer. I don't think it's going to be the CIO. Because I'm trying to figure out who's got the problem. Who's got the problem of connecting the dots to improving the operation of the company? Who is in charge of actually creating an operating platform that the business can feed off of? It's the C Tower. >> John: Why not the CFO? >> No, I think the CFO is going to be a diminishing value, over time. Because a couple of reasons. First of all, we see it in Phillips. There's always going to be a fiduciary role for the CFO. But we're out of the world of capex. We're out of the world of balancing assets. Everything is now virtual. So really, the value of a CFO, as sitting on the tee, if I use the racquetball, the CFO standing on the tee is not going to bring value to the Enterprise. >> And the CIO doesn't have the business juice, is your argument? Is that right? >> It depends on the CIO. There are some CIO's out there-- >> Dave: But in general, we're generalizing. >> Generally not. Because they've come through the ranks of building applications, which now has to be thrown away. They've come through the ranks of technology, which is now less relevant. And they've come through the ranks of having huge budgets and huge people to deploy certain projects. All of that's going away. And so what are you left with? Now you're left with somebody who absolutely has to understand how to communicate with the business. And that's what they haven't done for 30 years. >> John: And stream line business process. >> Well, at least get involved in the conversation. At least get involved in the conversation. Now if I talk to business people today, and you probably do too, most of them will still say there's this huge communication gulf. Between what we're trying to achieve and what the technology people are doing with our goals. I mean, I was talking to somebody the other day. And this lady heads up the sales for a global financial institution. She's sitting on the business side of this. And she's like, "The conversation should be "about, if our company wants to improve "our cost income ratio, and they ask me, "as sales to do it, I have to sell 10 times "more to make a difference. "Then if IT would save money. "So for every Euro they save. "And give me an agile platform, "is straight to the bottom line. "Every time I sell, because of our "cost income ratio, I just can't sell against that. "But I can't find on the IT side, "anybody who, sort of, gets my problem. "And is trying to help me with it." And then you look at her and what? You think a hybrid solution's going to help her? (laughs) I have no idea what you're talking about. >> Right, so the business person here then says, "I don't really care where it runs." But to your point, you care about the operational model? >> Alan: Absolutely. >> And that's really what Cloud should be, right? >> I think everybody who's going to achieve anything from an investment in Cloud, will achieve it in the operating world. They won't just achieve it on the cost savings side. Or on making costs more transparent, or more commoditized. Where it has to happen is in the operating model. In fact, we actually have data of a very large, transportation, logistics company, who moved everything that they had, in an attempt to be in a zero Cloud. And on the benchmark, saved zero. And they saved zero because they weren't changing the operating model. So they were still-- >> They lifted and shifted, but didn't change the operational mindset. >> Not at all. >> But there could have been business value there. Maybe things went faster? >> There could have been. >> Maybe simpler? >> But I'm not seeing it. >> Not game changing. >> Not game changing, certainly yes. >> Not as meaningful, it was a stretch. >> Give an example of a game changing scenario. >> Well for me, and I think this is the next most exciting thing. Is this idea of platforms. There's been an early adoption of this in Telco. Where we've seen people coming in and saying, "If you stock all of this IT, as we've known it, "and you leverage the ideas of Cloud computing, "to have scalable, invisible, infrastructure. "And you put a single platform on top of it "to run your business, you can save money." Now, I've seen business cases where people who are about to embark on this program are taking a billion a year out of their cost base. And in this company, it's 1/7th of their total profit. That's a game changer, for me. But now, who's going to help them do that? Who's going to help them-- >> What's the platform look like? >> And a million's a lot of money. >> Let's go, grab a sheet of paper how we-- >> So not everybody will even have a billion-- >> But that gets the attention of certainly, the CEO, the COO, CFO says, "Tell me more." >> You're alluding to it, Dave. You need to build a layer to punch, to doing that. So you need to fix the data stewardship problem. You have to create the invisible infrastructure that enables that platform. And you have to have a platform player who is prepared to disrupt the industry. And for me-- >> Dave: A Cloud player. >> A Cloud player, I think it's a born in the Cloud player. I think, you know, we've talked about it privately. >> So who are the forces to attract? You got Microsoft, you got AWS, Google, maybe IBM, maybe Oracle. >> See, I think it's Google. >> Dave: Why, why do you think it's Google? >> I think it's because, the platforms that I'm thinking of, and if I look in retail, if I look in financial services, it's all about data. Because that's the battle, right. We all agree, the battle's on data. So it's got to be somebody who understands data at scale, understands search at scale, understands deep learning at scale. And understands technology enough to build that platform and make it available in a consumption model. And for me, Google would be the ideal player, if they would make that step. Amazon's going to have a different problem because their strategy's not going down that route. And I think, for people like IBM or Oracle, it would require cannibalizing too much of their existing business. But they may dally with it. And they may do it in a territory where they have no install base. But they're not going to be disrupting the industry. I just don't think it's going to be possible for them. >> And you think Google has the Enterprise chops to pull it off? >> I think Google has the platform. I would agree with Alan on this. Something, I've been very critical on Google. Dave brings this up because he wants me to say it now, and I will. Google is well positioned to be the platform. I am very bullish on Google Cloud with respect to their ability to moon shot or slingshot to the future faster, than, potentially others. Or as they say in football, move the goal posts and change the game. That being said, where I've been critical of Google, and this is where, I'll be critical, is their dogma is very academic, very, "We're the technology leader, "therefore you should use Google G Suite." I think that they have to change their mindset, to be more Enterprise focused, in the sense of understand not the best product will always win, but the B chip they have to develop, have to think about the Enterprise. And that's a lot of white glove service. That's a lot of listening. That's not being too arrogant. I mean, there's a borderline between confidence and arrogance. And I think Google crosses it a little bit too much, Dave. And I think that's where Google recognizes, some people in Google recognize that they don't have the Enterprise track record, for sure on the sales side. You could add 1,000 sales reps tomorrow but do they have experience? So there's a huge translation issue going on between Google's capability and potential energy. And then the reality of them translating that into an operational footprint. So for them to meet the mark of folks like you, you can't be speaking Russian and English. You got to speak the same language. So, the language barrier, so to speak, the linguistics is different. That's my only point. >> I sense in your statements, there's a frustration here. Because we know that the key to some really innovative, disruption is with Google. And I think what we'd all like to do, even while I was addressing the camera. I'd love to see Diane, who does understand Enterprise, who's built a whole career servicing Enterprises extremely well, I'd like to see a little bit of a glimpse of, "We are up for this." And I understand when you're part of the bigger Google, the numbers are a little bit skewered against you to make a big impact and carry the firm with you. But I do believe there's an enormous opportunity in the Enterprise space. And people are just waiting for this. >> Well Diane Greene knows the Enterprise. So she came in, she's got to change the culture. And I know she's doing it. Because I have folks at Google, that I know that work there, that tell me privately, that it's happening, maybe not fast enough. But here's the thing. If you walked in the front door at Google, Alan Nance, this is my point, and he said, "I have experience and I have a plan "to build a platform, to knock a billion "dollars off seven companies, that I know, personally. "That I can walk in and win. "And move a billion dollars to their "bottom line with your platform." They might not understand what that means. >> I don't know, you know I was at Google Next a few weeks ago, last month. And I thought they were more, to your point, open to listening. Maybe not as arrogant as you might be presenting. And somewhat more humble. Still pretty ballsy. But I think Google recognizes that it needs help in the Enterprise. And here's why. Something that we've talked about in the past, is, you've got top down initiatives. You've got bottom up initiatives. And you've got middle out. What frequently happens, and I'd love for you to describe your experiences. The leaders say, the top CXO's say, "Okay we're going." And they take off and the organization doesn't follow them. If it's bottoms up, you don't have the top down in premature. So how do you address that? What are you seeing and how do you address that problem? >> So I think that's a really, really good observation. I mean, what I see in a lot of the big transformations that I've been involved in, is that speed is of the essence. And I think when CEO's, because usually it's the CEO. CEO comes in and they think they've got more time than they actually have to make the impact in the Enterprise. And it doesn't matter if they're coming in from the outside or they've grown up. They always underestimate their ability to do change, in time. And now what's changed over the past few years, is the average tenure of a CEO is six years. You know, I mean, Jack Welch was 20 years at GE. You can do a lot of damage in 20 years. And he did a lot of great things at GE over a 20 year period. You've only got six years now. And what I see in these big transformation programs is they start with a really good vision. I mean Mackenzie, Bain, Boston. They know the essence of what needs to happen. >> Dave: They can sell the dream. >> They can sell the dream. And the CEO sort of buys into it. And then immediately you get into the first layer, "Okay, okay, so we've got to change the organization." And so you bring in a lot of these companies that will run 13 work streams over three years, with hundreds of people. And at the end of that time, you're almost halfway through your tenure. And all you've got is a new design. Or a new set of job descriptions or strategies. You haven't actually achieved anything. And then the layer down is going to run into real problems. One of the problems that we had at the company I worked at before, was in order to support these platforms you needed really good master data management. And we suddenly realized that. And so we had to really put in an accelerated program to achieve that, with Impatica. We did it, but it cost us a year and 1/2. At a bank I know, they can't move forward because they're looking at 700 million of technology debt, they can't get past. So they end up going down a route of, "Maybe one of these big suppliers "can buy our old stuff. "And we can tag on some transformational "deal at the back end of that." None of those are working. And then what happens is, in my mind, if the CEO, from what I see, has not achieved escape velocity at the end of year three. So he's showing the growth, or she's showing the digital transformation, it's kind of game over. The Enterprise has already figured out they've stalled it long enough, not intentionally. And then we go back into an austerity program. Because you got to justify the millions you've spent in the last three years. And you've got nothing to show for it. >> And you're preparing three envelopes. >> So you got to accelerate those layers. You got to take layers out and you've got to have a really, I would say almost like, 90 day iteration plans that show business outcomes. >> But the technology layer, you can put in an abstraction layer, use APIs and infrastructure as code, all that cool stuff. But you're saying it's the organizational challenges. >> I think that's the real problem. It is the real problem, is the organization. And also, because what you're really doing in terms of the Enterprise, is you're moving from a more traditional supply chain that you own. And you've matriculated with SAP or with Oracle. Now you're talking about creating a digital value chain. A digital value chain that's much more based on a more mobile ecosystem, where you would have thin text in one area or insurance text, that have to now fit into an agile supply chain. It's all about the operating model. If you don't have people who know how to drive that, the technology's not going to help you. So you've got to have people on the business side and the technology side coming together to make this work. >> Alan, I have a question for you. What's you're prediction, okay, knowing what you know. And kind of, obviously, you have some frustrations in platforms with trying to get the big players to listen. And I think they should listen to you. But this is going to happen. So I would believe that what you're saying with the COO, operational things radically changing differently. Obviously, the signs are all there. Data centers are moving into the Cloud. I mean this is radical stuff, in a good way. And so, what's your prediction for how this plays out vis a vis Amazon Web Services, Google Cloud Platform Azure, IBM Cloud SoftLayer. >> Well here's my concern a little bit. I think if Google enters the fray I think everybody will reconfigure. Because if we'd assume that Google plays to its strengths and goes out there and finds the right partners. It's going to reconfigure the industry. If they don't do that, then what the industry's going to do is what it's done. Which means that the platforms are going to be hybrid platforms that are dominated by the traditional players. By the SOPs, by the Oracles, by the IBMs. And what I fear is that there may actually be a disillusionment. Because they will not bring the digital transformation and all the wonderful things that we all know, are out there to be gained. So you may get, "We've invested all this money." You see it a little bit with big data. "I've got this huge layer. "I've got petabytes. "Why am I not smarter? "Why is my business not going so much better? "I've put everything in there." I think we've got to address the operating problem. And we have to find a dialogue at the C Suite. >> Well to your point, and we talked about this. You know, you look at the core of Enterprise apps, the Oracle stuff is not moving in droves, to the Cloud. Oracle's freezing the market right now. Betting that it can get there before the industry gets there. And if it does-- >> Alan: It's not. >> And it might, but if it does, it's not going to be that radical transformation you're prescribing. >> They have too much to lose. Let's be honest, right. So Oracle is a victim of it's own success, pretty much like SAP. It has to go to the Cloud as a defensive play. Because the last thing either of those want is to be disintermediated by Amazon. Which may or may not happen anyway. Because a lot of companies will disintermediate if they can. Because the licensing is such a painful element for most enterprises, when they deal with these companies. So they have to believe that the platform is not going to look like that. >> And they're still trying to figure out the pricing models, and the margin models, and Amazon's clearly-- >> You know what's driving the pricing models is not the growth on the consumer side. >> Right, absolutely. >> That's not what's driving it. So I think we need another player. I really think we need another player. If it's not Google, somebody else. I can't think who would have the scale, the money to-- >> The only guys who have the scale, you got 10 cents, maybe a couple China Clouds, maybe one Japan Cloud and that's it. >> To be honest, you raise a good point. I haven't really looked at the Ali Baba's and the other people like that who may pick up that mantle. I haven't looked at them. Ali Baba's interesting, because just like Amazon, they have their own business that runs on platforms. And a very diverse business, which is growing faster than Amazon and is more profitable than Amazon. So they could be interesting. But I'm still hopeful. We should figure this out. >> Google should figure it out. You're absolutely right. They're investing, and I thought they put forth a pretty good messaging at the Google Next. You covered it remotely but I think they understand the opportunity. And I think they have the stomach for it. >> We had reporters there as well, at the event. We just did, they came to our studio. Google is self aware that they need to work on the Enterprise. I think the bigger thing that you're highlighting is the operational model is shifting to a scale point where it's going to change stewardship and COO meaning to be, I like that. The other thing I want to get your reaction to is something I heard this morning, on the CUBE from Sean Connelly. Which that goes with some of the things that we're seeing where you're seeing Cloud becoming a more centralized view. Where IOT is an Edge case. So you have now, issues around architectural things. Your thoughts and reaction to this balance between Edge and Cloud. >> Well I think this is where you're also going to have your data gravity challenge. So, Dave McCrory has written a lot about the concept of data gravity. And in my mind, too many people in the Enterprise don't understand it. Which is basically, that data attracts more data. And more data you have, it'll attract more. And then you create all these latency issues when you start going out to the Edge. Because when we first went out to the Edge I think, even at Phillips, we didn't realize how much interaction needed to come back. And that's going to vary from company to company. So some company's are going to want to have that data really quickly because they need to react to it immediately. Others may not have that. But what you do have is you have this balancing act. About, "What do I keep central? "And what do I put at the Edge?" I think Edge Technology is amazing. And when we first looked at it, four years ago, I mean, it's come such a long way. And what I am encouraged by is that, that data layer, so the layer that Sean talks about, there's a lot of exciting things happening. But again, my problem is what's the Enterprise going to do with that? Because it requires a different operating model. If I take an example of a manufacturing company, I know a manufacturing company right now that does work in China. And it takes all the data back to its central mainframes for processing. Well if you've got the Edge, you want to be changing the way you process. Which means that the decision makers on the business need to be insitu. They need to be in China. And we need to be bringing, systems of record data and combining it with local social data and age data, so we get better decisions. So we can drive growth in those areas. If I just enable it with technology but don't change the business model the business is not going to grow. >> So Alan, we always loved having you on. Great practitioner, but now you've kind of gone over to the dark side. We've heard of a company called Virtual Clarity. Tell us about what you're doing there. >> So what we're vested in, what I am very much vested in, with my team at Virtual Clarity, is creating this concept of precision guided transformation. Where you work on the business, on what are the outcomes we really need to get from this? And then we've combined, I would say it's like a data nerve center. So we can quickly analyze, within a matter of weeks, where we are with the company, and what routes to value we can create. And then we'll go and do it. So we do it in 90 day increments. So the business now starts to believe that something's really going to happen. None of these big, insert miracle here after three year programs. But actually going out and doing it. The second thing that I think that we're doing that I'm excited about is bringing in enlightened people who represent the Enterprise. So, one of my colleagues, former COO of Unilever, we just brought on a very smart lady, Dessa Grassa, who was the CDO at JP Morgan Chase. And the idea is to combine the insights that we have on the demand side, the buy side, with the insights that we have on the technology side to create better operating models. So that combination of creating a new view that is acceptable to the C Suite. Because these people understand how you talk to them. But at the same time, runs on this concept of doing everything quickly. That's what we're about right now. >> That's awesome, we should get you hooked up with our new analyst we just hired, James Corbelius, from IBM. Was focusing on exactly that. The intersections of developers, Cloud, AI machine learning and data, all coming together. And IOT is going to be a key application that we're going to see coming out of that. So, congratulations. Alan thank you for spending the time to come in. >> Thanks for allowing me. >> To see us in the CUBE. It's the CUBE, bringing you more action. Here from DataWorks 2017. I'm John Furrier with my cohost Dave Vallante, here on the CUBE, SiliconANGLE Media's flagship program. Where we've got the events, straight from SiliconANGLE. Stay with us for more great coverage. Day one of two days of coverage at DataWorks 2017. We'll be right back.

>> Welcome back to the Cuban Peterborough's chief research officer of Silicon Angle and general manager of Wicked Bond. We're as part of our continuing coverage of the arse a show. We have a great guest Z scaler amid sin. Ha! Welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you for having me here. It's a pleasure to be here. >> So, um, it what exactly does Z scaler? D'oh >> Z's killer is in the business of providing the entire security stack as a service for large enterprises. We sit in between enterprise users and the Internet and various destinations they want to goto, and we want to make sure that they have a fast, nimble Internet experience without compromising any security. >> So if I can interpret what that means, that means that as Maur companies are trying to serve their employees that Air Mobile or customers who aren't part of their corporate network they're moving more. That communication in the Cloud Z scale is making it possible for them to get the same quality of security on that communication in the cloud is he would get on premise. >> Absolutely. If you look at some of the big business transformations that are happening, work lords for enterprises are moving to the cloud. For example, enterprises are adopting Office 3 65 instead, off traditional exchange based email and on your desktop applications. They might be adopting sales force for CR M Net suite for finance box for storage. So as these workloads are moving to the cloud and employees are becoming more and more mobile, you know they might be at a coffee shop. They might be on an iPad. Um, and they might be anywhere in the world. That begs the basic security question. Where should that enterprise DMC the security stack be sitting back in the day? Enterprises had a hub and spokes model, right? They might have 50 branch offices across the world. A few mobile workers, all of them, came back over private networks to a central hub, and that hub was where racks and racks of security appliances were deployed. Maybe they started off with a firewall. Later on, they added a proxy. You are l filtering some d e l P er down the road. People realized that you need to inspect us to sell. So they added some SSL offload devices. Someone said, Hey, we need to do some sand boxing for behavioral analysis. People started adding sandboxes. And so, over time the D. M. Z got cluttered and complicated and fast forward to Today. Users have become mobile. Workloads have moved to the cloud. So if I'm sitting in a San Francisco office on my laptop trying to do my regular work, my email is in the cloud. My my court applications are sitting in the cloud. Why should I have to vpn back to my headquarters in Cincinnati over a private network, you know, incurring all the Leighton see and the delays just so that I can get inspected by some legacy appliances that are sitting in that DMC, right? So we looked at that network transformation on We started this journey at Ze scale or eight years ago, and we said, Look, if users are going to be mobile and workloads are going to be in the cloud, the entire security stack should be as close as possible to where the users are. In that example, I described, I'm sitting here. I'm going to Salesforce. We're probably going to the same data center in San Francisco. Shouldn't my entire security stag be available right where I am, um, and my administrators should have full visibility, full control from a single pane of glass. I get a fast, nimble user experience. The enterprise doesn't have to compromise in any security, and that's sort of the vision that we have executing towards. >> But it's not just for some of the newer applications or some of the newer were close. We're also seeing businesses acknowledge that the least secure member of their community has an impact on overall security. So the whole concept of even the legacy has to become increasingly a part of this broad story. So if anybody accesses anything from anywhere through the cloud that those other workloads increasing, they're gonna have to come under the scrutiny of a cloud based security option. >> Absolutely. I mean, that's a brilliant point, Peter. >> I >> think of >> it this way. Despite all those security appliances that have been deployed over time, they're still security breach is happening. And why is that? That is because users are the weakest link, right? If I'm a mobile work user, I'm sitting in a branch office. It's just painful for me to go back to those headquarter facilities just for additional scanning so two things happen either I have a painful user experience. What? I bypassed security, right? Um, and more and more of the attacks that we see leverage the user as the weakest link. I send you a phishing email. It looks like it came from HR. It has a excel sheet attached to it to update some information. But, you know, inside is lurking a macro, right? You open it. It is from a squatter domain that looks very similar to the company you work for. You click on it and your machine is infected. And then that leads to further malware being downloaded, data being expatriated out. So the Z scaler solution is very, very simple. Conceptually, we want to sit between users and the destinations they goto all across the world. And we built this network of 100 data centers. Why? Because you cannot travel faster than the speed of light. So if you're in San Francisco, you better go through our San Francisco facility. All your policies will show up here. All the latest and greatest security protections will be available. We serve 5000 large enterprises. So if we discover a new security threat because of an employee from, let's say, a General Electric. Then someone from United Airlines automatically gets protection simply because the cloud is live all the time. You're not waiting for your security boxes to get, you know, the weekly patch updates for new malware indicators and so on. Right, So, um, you get your stack right where you are. It's always up to date. User experience is not compromised. Your security administrators get a global view off things. And one >> of the >> things that that I that we haven't talked about here it is the dramatic cost savings that this sort of network transformation brings for enterprises. To put that in perspective, let's say you're a Fortune 100 organization with 100,000 employees worldwide in that, huh? Been spoke model. You are forcing all those workloads to come toe a few choke points, right? That is coming over. Very expensive. NPLs circuits private circuits from service providers. You're double trombone in traffic, back and forth. You know, you and I are in a branch. We might be on. Ah, Skype session. Ah, Google Hangout session. All our traffic goes to H Q. Goes to the cloud comeback comes back to h. Q comes back to you, there's this is too much back and forth, and you're paying for those expensive circuits and getting a poor user experience. Wouldn't it be great if you and I could go straight to the Internet? And that can only be enabled if we can provide that pervasive security stack wherever you are? And for that, we built this network of 100 data centers worldwide. Always live, always up to date you. You get routed to the closest the scaler facility. All your policy show up. They're automatically and you get the latest and greatest protection. >> So it seems as though you end up with three basic benefits. One is you get the cost benefit of being able to, uh, have being able to leverage a broader network of talent, skills and resources You reduce. Your risk is not the least of which is that the cost and the challenges configuring a whole bunch of appliances has not gotten any easier over the last. No, it hasn't cheaters. And so not only do you have user error, but you also Administrator Erin, absolutely benign, but nonetheless it's there, and then finally and this is what I want to talk about. Increasingly, the clot is acknowledged as the way that companies are going to improve their portfolio through digital assets. Absolutely. Which means new opportunities, new competition, new ways of improving customer experience. But security has become the function of no within a lot of organizations. Absolutely. So How does how does AE scaler facilitate the introduction of new business capabilities that can attack these opportunities in a much more timely way by reducing doesn't reduce some of those some of those traditional security constraints. >> Absolutely right, and we call it the Department of No right. We've talked to most people in the industry. They view their I t folks there, security forces, the department of Know Why? Because there's this big push from users to adopt newer, nimble, faster cloud based ah solutions that that improved productivity. But often I t comes in the way. No, If you look at what Izzy's killer is doing, it's trying to transform the adoption of these Cloud service. Is that do improve business productivity? In fact, there is no debate now because there are many, many industries that ever doubt adopted a cloud first strategy. Well, that means is, as they think of the network and their security, they want to make sure that cloud is front and center. Words E scaler does is it enables that cloud for a strategy without any security compromise. I'll give you some specific examples. Eight out of 10 c I ose that we talk to our thinking about office 3 65 or they have already deployed it right. One of the first challenge is that happens when you try to adopt office. 3 65 is that your legacy network and security infrastructure starts to come crumble. Very simple things happen. You have your laptop. Suddenly, that laptop has many, many persistent SSL connections to the clothes. Because exchange is moved to the cloudy directory, service is are moving to the cloud. If you have a small branch office with 2000 users, each of them having 30 40 persistent connections to the cloud will your edge firewall chokes. Why? Because it cannot maintain so many active ports at the same time, we talked about the double trombone ing of traffic back and forth. If you try to not go direct to the Internet but force everyone to go through a couple of hubs. So you pay for all the excessive band with your traditional network infrastructure, and your security infrastructure might need a forklift upgrades. So a cloud transformation project quickly becomes a network in a security transformation project. And this is where you nosy scaler helps tremendously because we were born and bred in the cloud. Many of these traditional limitations that you have with appliance based security or networking, you know, in the traditional sense don't exist for the scaler, right? We can enable your branch officers to go directly to the cloud. In fact, we've started doing some very clever things. For example, we peer with Microsoft in about 20 sites worldwide. So what that means is, when you come to the scaler for security, there's a very high likelihood that Microsoft has a presence in the same data center. We might be one or two or three millisecond hops away because we're in the same equinox facility in New York or San Jose. And so not only are you getting your full security stack where you are, you're getting the superfast peered connections to the end Cloud service is that you want to goto. You don't have to work. Worry about you know your edge Firewalls not keeping up. You don't have to worry about a massive 30 40% increase in back hole costs because you were now shipping all this extra traffic to those couple of hubs. And more importantly, you know, you've adopted these transformative technologies on your users don't have to complain about how slow they are because you know, most of the millennials hitting the workforce. I used to a very fast, nimble experience on their mobile phones with consumer APS. And then they come into the enterprise and they quickly realize that, well, this is all cumbersome and old and legacy stuff >> in me s. So let's talk a little bit about Let's talk a bit about this notion of security being everywhere and increasingly is removed to a digital business or digital orientation. With digital assets being the basis for the value proposition, which is certainly happening on a broad scale right now, it means it's security going back to the idea of security being department. No security has to move from an orientation of limiting access to appropriately sharing. Security becomes the basis for defining the digital brand. So talk to us a little bit about how the how you look out, how you see the world, that you think security's gonna be playing in ultimately defining this notion of digital brand digital perimeters from a not a iittie standpoint. But from a business value standpoint, >> absolutely. I would love to talk about that. So Izzy's killer Our cloud today sees about 30,000,000,000 transactions a day from about 5000 enterprises. So we have a very, very good pulse on what is happening in large enterprises, from from a cloud at perspective or just what users are doing on the Internet. So here are some of the things that we see. Number one. We see that about 50 60% of the threats are coming inside SSL, so it's very important to inspect SSL. The second thing that we observe is without visibility. It is very different, very difficult for your security guys to come up with a Chris policy, right? If you cannot see what is happening inside an SSL connection, how are you going to have a date? A leakage policy, right? Maybe your policy is no P I information should leak out. No source code should leak out. How can you make sure that an engineer is not dropping something in this folder, which is sinking to Google Drive or drop box in an in an SSL tano, Right. How do you prioritize mission Critical business applications like office 3 65 over streaming media, Right. So for step two, crafting good policy is 100% real time visibility. And that's what happens when you adopt the Siskel a network. You can see what any user is doing anywhere in the world within seconds. And once you have that kind of visibility, you can start formulating policies, both security and otherwise that strike a good balance between business productivity that you want to achieve without compromising security. >> That's the policy's been 10 more net. You can also end that decisions. >> Yes, right. So, for example, you can you can have a more relaxed social media policy, right? You can say Well, you know, everyone is allowed access, but they can. Maybe streaming media is restricted to one hour a day. You know, after hours, or you can say, I want to adopt um, storage applications in the clothes here are some sanctioned APS These other raps were not going to allow right. You can do policies by users, by locations by departments, right? And once you have the visibility, you can. You can be very, very precise and say, Well, boxes, my sanction story, Jap other APS are not allowed right and hear other things that a particular group of users can do on box. Or they cannot do because we were seeing every transaction between the user on going to the destination and as a result, begin, you know, we can enable the enterprise administrator to come up with very, very specific policies that are tailored for that. >> You said something really interesting. I'm gonna ask you one more question, but I'm gonna make a common here. And that common is that the power of digital technology is that it can be configured and copied and changed, and it's very mutable. It's very plastic, but at the end of the day it has to be precise, and I've never heard anybody talk about the idea of precise and security, and I think it's a very, very powerful concept. But what are what's What's the scale are talking about in our say this year. >> Well, we're going to talk about a bunch of very interesting things. First, we'll talk about the scale of private access. This is a new offering on the scale of platform. We believe that VP ends have become irrelevant because of all the discussions we just had, um, Enterprises are treating their Internet as though it was the Internet, right? You know, sort of a zero trust model. They're moving the crown jewel applications to either private cloud offerings are, you know, sort of restricting that in a very micro segmented way. And the question is, how do you access those applications? Right? And the sea skill immortal is very straightforward. You have a pervasive cloud users authenticate to the cloud and based on policies, we can allow them to go to the Internet to sites that have been sanctioned and allowed. We make sure nothing good is leaking out. Nothing bad is coming in, and that same cloud model can be leveraged for private access to crown jewel applications that traditionally would have required a full blown vpn right. And the difference between a VPN and the skill of private access is VP ends basically give you full network access keys to the kingdom, right? Whether it's a contractor with, it's an employee just so that you could access, you know, Internet application. You allow full network access, and we're just gonna getting rid of that whole notion. That's one thing we're gonna stroke ISS lots of cloud white analytics, As I mentioned, you know, we process 30,000,000,000 transactions a day. To put that in perspective, Salesforce reports about four and 1 30,000,000,000 4 1/2 to 5,000,000,000 transactions. They're about three and 1/2 1,000,000,000 Google searches done daily, right? So it is truly a tin Internet scale. We're blocking over 100,000,000 threats every day for, ah, for all our enterprise user. So we have a very good pulse on you know what's what's an average enterprise user doing? And you're going to see some interesting cloud? Wait, Analytics. Just where we talk about a one of the top prevalent Claude APs, what are the top threats? You know, by vertical buy by geography, ese? And then, you know, we as a platform has emerged. We started off as a as a sort of a proxy in the cloud, and we've added sand boxing capabilities. Firewall capabilities, you know, in our overall vision, as I said, is to be that entire security stack that sits in your inbound and outbound gateway in that DMC as a pure service. So everything from firewall at layer three to a proxy at Layer seven, everything from inline navy scanning right to full sand. Boxing everything from DLP to cloud application control. Right? And all of that is possible because, you know, we have this very scalable architecture that allows you to to do sort of single scan multiple action right in that appliance model that I describe. What ends up happening is that you have many bumps in the wire. One of the examples we use is if you wanted to build a utility company, you don't start off with small portable generators and stack them in a warehouse, right? That's inefficient. It requires individual maintenance. It doesn't scale properly. Imagine if you build a turbine and ah, and then started your utility company. You can scale better. You can do things that traditional appliance vendors cannot think about. So we build this scalable, elastic security platform, and on that platform it's very easy for us to add. You know, here's a firewall. Here's a sandbox. And what does it mean for end users? You know, you don't need to deploy new boxes. You just go and say, I want to add sand boxing capabilities or I want to add private access or I want to add DLP. And it is as simple as enabling askew, which is what a cloud service offering should be. >> Right. So we're >> hardly know software. >> So we're talking about we're talking about lower cost, less likelihood of human error, which improves the quality, security, greater plasticity and ultimately, better experience, especially for your non employees. Absolutely. All right, so we are closing up this particular moment I want Thank you very much for coming down to our Pallotta studio is part of our coverage on Peter Boris. And we've been talking to the scanner amidst, huh? Thank you very much. And back to Dio Cube.