>> (Narrator) Live from Vancouver, Canada, it's The Cube, covering OpenStack Summit North America 2018, brought to you by Red Hat, the OpenStack Foundation, and its Ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman with my co-host John Troyer and you're watching The Cube, worldwide leader in tech coverage, and this is OpenStack Summit 2018 in Vancouver. Happy to welcome to the program, first-time guest Melvin Hillsman, who's the governance board member of OpenLab, which we got to hear about in the keynote on Monday. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks for having me. >> Alright, so Melvin, we were given, start us off with a little bit about your background, what brought you to the OpenStack community, and we'll go from there. >> Sure, yeah, so my background is in Linux system administration and my getting involved in OpenStack was more or less seeing the writing on the wall as it relates to virtualization and wanting to get an early start in understanding how things would pan out over the course of some years. So I probably started OpenStack maybe three or four so years ago. I was probably later to the party than I wanted to be, but through that process, started working at Rackspace first and that's how I really got more involved into OpenStack in particular. >> Yeah, you made a comment, though. The writing on the wall for virtualization. Explained that for a sec. >> So for me, I was at a shared hosting company and we weren't virtualizin' anything. We were using traditional servers, dedicated servers, installing hundreds of customers on those servers. And so, at one point, what we started doing was we would take a dedicated server, we would create a virtual machine on it, but we would use most of the resources of that dedicated server, and so what allowed that shared hosting was to tear stuff down and recreate it, but it was very manual process and so, of course, the infrastructure service and orchestration around that OpenStack was becoming the de facto standard and way of doing it, and so I didn't want to try to learn manually, or fix something up internally, I wanted to go where OpenStack was being highly developed a lot and people working on it in their day to day jobs, which is why I went to Rackspace. >> Okay, one of the things we look at, this is a community here, so it takes people from lots of different backgrounds, and some of them do it on their spare time, some of them are paid by larger companies to participate, so to tell us about OpenLab, itself, and how your company participates there. >> Sure, so I started, well I'm at Huawei now, but I was at Rackspace and that's kind of how I got more involved in the community and there I started working on testing things above the OpenStack ecosystem, so things that people want to build on top of OpenStack and during that process Huawei reached out to me and was like hey you know you're doing a great job here, and I was like yeah I would love to come and explore more of how we can increase this activity in the community at large. And so Oakland Lab was essentially born out of that, which the OpenStack community, they deliver the OpenStack API's, and they kind of stop there, you know. Everything above that is, you do that on your own, more or less, and so also, as a chair of the user committee, again, just being more concerned about the people who are using stuff, OpenLab was able, was available to facilitate me having access to hardware and access to people who are using things outside OverStack in use cases, et cetera, where we want to test out more integrated tools working with OpenStack and different versions of OpenStack. And so that's essentially what OpenLab is-- >> So in OpenLab, projects come together and it's basically, it's an Interop, boy, in the networking world, they've had the Interop plug and plug fest for a long time, but, in essence, projects come together and you integrate them and start, you invite them in and they integrate and start to test them. Starting with, I mean, I see, for this release, Terraform and Kubernetes. >> Yeah, so a lot of people want to to use Kubernetes, right? And as an OpenStack operator you essentially, you don't really want to go and learn all the bits of Kubernetes, necessarily, and so, but you want to use Kubernetes and you want to work seamlessly with OpenStack and you want to use the API's that you're used to using with OpenStack and so we work very heavily on the external cloud provider for OpenStack, enabling Cinder V3 for containers that you're spinning up in Kubernetes, so that they have seamless integration, you don't have to try to attach your volumes, they are automatically attached. You don't have to figure out what your load balancing is going to to look like. You use Octavia, which is load balancing service for OpenStack, very tightly integrated and things, you know, as you spin things up, they work as you as you would expect and so then all the other legacy applications and all the things you're used to doing with OpenStack, you bring on Kubernetes and you essentially do things the way you've been doing them before, with just an additional layer. >> Yeah, now I wonder if you can talk a little bit about the providers and the users, you know how do they get engaged, to and give us a little flavor around those. >> Yeah, so you get engaged, you go to OpenLabtesting.org and there's two options. One, is you can test out your applications and tools, by clicking get started, you fill that out. And what's great about open lab is that we actually reach out and we talk with you, we consult with you, per se, because we have a lot of variation in hardware that's available to us and so we want to figure out the right hardware that you need in order to do the tests that you want, so that we can get the output as it relates to that integration that will, of course, educate and inform the community at large of whether or not it's working and been validated. And, again, so as a person who wants to support OpenLab or for a provider, for example, who wants to support OpenLab, you click on the support OpenLab link, you fill out a form and you tell us you know, do you want to provide more infrastructure, do you want to talk with us about how clouds are being architected, integrations are being architected, things that you're seeing in the open source use cases that may not be getting the testing that they need and you're willing to work with engineers from other companies around that, so individual testers and then companies who may bring a number of testers together around a particular use case. >> Now, you're starting to publish some of the results of Interop testing and things like that. How is open lab, how does it produce its results, is it eventually going to be producing white papers and things like that or dashboards or what's your vision there? >> Yeah, so we produce a very archaic dashboard right now, but we're working with the CNCF to, if you go to CNCF.CI, and they have a very nice dashboard that kind of shows you a number of projects and whether or not they work together. And so it's open source, so what we want to do is work with that team to figure out how do we change the logos and the git repos, to how to driving those red and green, success or failure icons that are there, but they're relevant to the test that we're doing in OpenLab, so yeah. So we definitely want to have a dashboard that's very easy to decipher what tests are failing in or passing. >> Looking forward, what kinds of projects are you most interested in getting involved? >> Right now, very much Kubernetes, of course. We're really focusing on multi architecture, again, as a result of our work with Kubernetes and driving full conformance and multi architecture. That's kind of the wheelhouse at this time. We're open for folks to give us a lot of different use cases, like we were starting to look at some edge stuff, how can we participate there, we're starting looking at FPGA's and GPU's, so a lot different, we don't have a full integration in a lot of different areas, just yet, but we are having those conversations. >> So, actually, I spent a bunch of years, when I worked on the vendor side, living in an Interrupt lab, and the most valuable things were not figuring out what worked, but what broke, so what kind of things, you know, as you're working through this, what learnings back do you share with the community, both the providers and users? Big stumbling blocks that you can help people, give a red flag, or say you know, avoid these type of things. >> Yeah, exactly what you just said. You know, what's good is some of our stuff is geographically dispersed, so we can start to talk about if, what's the latency look like? You may, within that few square miles that you're operating and doing things, it works great, but when I'm sending something across the water how, is your product still moving quickly, is the latency too bad that we can't, I can't create a container over here because it takes too long, so one example of looking at something fail as it relates to that is we're talking with Octavia folks to see, if I spin up a lot of containers am I going to therefore create a lot of load balancers and if I create a lot of load balancers I'm creating a lot of VM's, or am I creating a lot of containers or are things breaking apart, so we need to dig a little bit further to understand what is and is not working with the integrations we're currently working on and then again we're exploring GPV, GPUs just landed more or less, that was a part of the keynote as well, and so now we're talking about, well, let's do some of that testing. The software, the code, is there but is it usable? And so that's one area we want to start playing around with. >> Okay, one of the other things in the keynote's got mentioned was Zul, the CIDT tool, how's that fitting into the OpenLab? >> Yeah, we use Zul as our gating, so what's great about Zul is that you can interac6t with projects from different SCM's, so we have some projects that live in github, some that utilize Garrote, some that utilize gitlab, and Zul has applicability where it can talk to different, it can talk across these different SCM's, and if you have a patch that depends on a patch in another another pod, so a patch on one project in one SCM can depend on a patch in another project, in a different SCM, and so what's great about Zul is that you can say, hey I'm depending on th6at, so before this patch lands, check to make sure this stuff works over there, so if it succeeds there and it's a dependency then you basically confirm that succeeds there and then now I can run the test here, and it passes here as well, so you know that you can use both of those projects together again, in an integration. Does it makes sense? Hopefully I'm making it very clear, the power there with the cross SCM integration. >> Yeah, Melvin, you've had a busy week, here, at the show. Any, you know, interesting things you learned this week or something that you heard from a customer that you thought, oh boy we got to, you know, get this into our lab or a road map or, you know-- >> The ARM story, the multi architecture is, I feel like that's really taking off. We've had discussions with quite a few folks around that, so yeah, that for me, that's the next thing that I think we're really going to concentrate a little bit harder on is, again, figuring out if there are some problems, because mostly it's been just x86, but we need to start exploring what's breaking as we add more to multi architecture. >> Melvin, no shortage of new things to test and play with, and every customer always brings some unique spins on things, so appreciate you giving us the update on OpenLab, thanks so much for joining us. >> You're Welcome. Thanks for having me. >> From John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman, thanks so much for watching The Cube. (electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live from Washington D.C. it's the CUBE covering the AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. Brought to you by the Amazon web services and its partner Ecosystem. >> Melvin Greer is with us now he's the director of Data Science and Analytics at Intel. Now Melvin, thank you for being here with us on the CUBE. Good to see you here this morning. >> Thank you John and John I appreciate getting a chance to talk with you it's great to be here at the AWS Public Sector Summit. >> Yeah we make it easy for you. >> I never forget the names. >> John and John. Let's talk just about data science in general and analytics I mean tell us about, give us the broad definition of that. You know the elevator speech about what's being done and then we'll drill down a little bit deeper about Intel and what you're doing with in terms of government work and healthcare work. >> Sure well data science and analytics covers a number of key areas and it's really important to consider the granularity of each of these key areas. Primarily because there's so much confusion about what people think of as artificial intelligence. It's certainly got a number of facets associated with it. So we have core analytics like descriptive, diagnostic, predictive and prescriptive. This describes what happened, what's going to happen next, why is it happening and what should I do about it. So those are core analytics. >> And (mumbles) oh go ahead. >> And a different tech we have machine learning cognitive computing. These things are different than core analytics in that they are recognizing patterns and relying on the concepts of training algorithms and then inference. The use of these trained algorithms to infer new knowledge. And then we have things like deep learning and convolutional neuro networks which use convolutional layers to drive better and better granularity and understanding of data. They often typically don't rely on training and have a large focus area around deep learning and deep cognitive skills. And then all of those actually line up in this discussion around narrow artificial intelligence and you've seen a lot of that already haven't you john? You've seen where we teach a machine how to play poker or we teach a machine how to play Jeopardy or Go. These are narrow AI applications. When we think about general AI however, this is much different. This is when we're actually outsourcing human cognition to a thinking machine at internet speed. >> This is amazing I love this conversation cause couple things, in that thread you just brought up is poker which is great cause it's not just Jeopardy it's poker is unknown conditions. You don't know the personality of the other guy. You don't know their cards their dealing with so it's a lot like unstructured data and you have to think about that so but it really highlights the (mumbles) between super computing paradigm and data and that really kind of changes the game on data science cause the old data warehouse model storing information, pulling it back, latency, and so we're seeing machine learning in these new aps really disrupting old data analytics models. So, I want to get your thoughts on this because and what is Intel doing because you guys have restructured things a bit differently. The AI messages out there as this new revolution takes place with data, how are you guys handling that? >> So Intel formed in late 2016 its artificial intelligence product group and the formation of this group is extremely consistent with our pivot to becoming a data company. So we're certainly not going to be abandoning any of that great performance and strong capabilities that we have in silicon architectures but as a data company it means that now we're going to be using all of these assets in artificial intelligence, machine learning cognitive computing and Intel in fact by using this is really in a unique position to focus on what we have termed and what you'll hear our CEO talk about as the virtuous cycle of growth. This cycle of growth includes cloud computing, data center, and IOT. And our ability to harness the power of artificial intelligence in data science and analytics means that Intel is really capable of driving this discussion around cloud computing and powering the cloud and also driving the work that's required to make a smart and a connected world a reality. Our artificial intelligence product group expands our portfolio and it means that we're bringing all these capabilities that I talked to you that make up data science and analytics. Cognitive, machine learning, artificial intelligence, deep learning, convolutional neuro networks, to bare to solve some of the nation's most significant and important problems and it means that Intel with its partners are really focused on the utilization of our core capabilities to drive government missions. >> Well give us an example then in terms of federal government NAI. How you're applying that to the operation of what's going on in this giant bureaucracy of a town that we have. >> So one of the things that I'm most excited about it that there's really no agency almost every federal agency in the U.S. is doing an investigation of artificial intelligence. It started off with this discussion around business intelligence and as you said data warehousing and other things but clearly the government has come to realize that turning data into a strategic asset is important, very very important. And so there are a number of key domain spaces in the federal government where Intel has made a significant impact. One is in health and life sciences so when you think about health and life sciences and biometrics, genomics, using advanced analytics for phenotype and genotype analysis this is where Intel's strengths are in performance in the ability to deliver. We created a collaborative cancer cloud that allows researches to use Intel hardware and software to accelerate the learnings from all of these health and life sciences advances that they want. Sharing data without compromising that data. We're focused significantly on cyber intelligence where we're applying threat and vulnerability analytics to understanding how to identify real cyber problems and big cyber vulnerabilities. We are now able to use Intel products to encrypt from the bios all the way up through the application stack and what it means is, is that our government clients who typically are hyper sensitive around security, get a chance to have data follow their respective process and meet their mission in a safe and secure way. >> If I can drill down on that for a second cause this is kind of a really sweet area for innovation. Data is now the new development environment the new development >> You said Bacon is the Oil is the new bacon (laughing) >> Versus the gold nuggets so I was talking with >> You hear what he said? >> No. >> It's the new bacon. >> The new bacon (laughs) love that. >> Data's the new bacon. >> Everyone loves bacon, everyone loves data. There's a thirst for the data and this also applies is that I ask you the role of the CDO, the chief data officer is emerging in companies and so we're seeing that also at the federal level. I want to get your thoughts on that but to quote the professor from Carnegie Mellon who I interviewed last week said the problem with a lot of data problems its like looking for a needle in the haystack with there's so much data now you have a haystack of needles so his premise is you can't find everything you got to use machine learning and AI to help with that so this is also going to be an issue for this chief data officer a new role. So is there a chief data officer role is there a need for that is there a CCO? Who handles the data? (laughing) >> Yeah so this is >> it's a tough one cause there's a lot a tech involved but also there's policies. >> Yeah so the federal government has actually mandated that each agency assign a federal chief data officer at the agency level and this person is working very closely with the chief information officer and the agency leaders to insure that they have the ability to take advantage of this large set of data that they collect. Intel's been working with most of the folks in the federal data cabinet who are the CDO's who are working to solve this problem around data and analysis of data. We're excited about the fact that we have chief data officers as an entry point to help discuss this hyper convergence that you described in technology. Where we have large data sets, we have faster hardware, of course Intel's helping to provide much of that and then better mathematics and algorithms. When we converge these three things together it's the soup that makes it possible for us to continue to drive artificial intelligence but that not withstanding federal data officers have a really hard job and we've been engaging them at many levels. We just had our artificial intelligence day in government where we had folks from many federal agencies that are on that cabinet and they shared with us directly how important it is to get Intel's on both hardware, hardware performance but also on software. When we think about artificial intelligence and the chief data officer or the data scientist this is likely a different individual than the person that is buying our silicon architectures. This is a person who is focused primarily on an agency mission and is looking for Intel to provide hardware and software capabilities that drive that mission. >> I got to ask you from an Intel perspective you guys are doing a lot of innovative things you have a great R and D group but also silicon you mentioned is important and you know software is eating the world but data's eating software so what's next what's eating data? We believe it's memory and silica and so one of the trends in big data is real time analytics is moving closer and closer to memory and then and now silicon who have some of those security paradigms with data involved seeing silicon implementations, root security, malware, firmware, kind of innovations. This is an interesting trend cause if software gets on to the silicon to the level that is better security you have fingerprinting all kinds of technologies. How is that going to impact the analytics world? So if you believe that they want faster lower latency data it's going to end up in the silicon. >> John you described exactly why Intel is focused on the virtuous cycle of growth. Because as more cloud enabled data moves itself from the cloud through our 5g networks and out to the edge in IOT devices whether they be autonomous vehicles or drones this is exactly why we have this continuum that allows data to move seamlessly between these three areas and operationalizes the core missions of government as well as provides a unique experience that most people can't even imagine. You likely saw the NBA finals you talked about Kevin Durant and you saw there the Intel 360 demonstration >> Love that! >> Where you're able to see how through different camera angles the entire play is unfolding. That is a prime example of how we use back end cloud hyper connected hardware with networks and edge devices where we're pushing analytics closer and closer to the edge >> by the way that's a real life media example of an IOT situation where it's at the edge of the network AKA stadium. I mean we geek out on that as well as Amazon has the MLB thing Andy (mumbles) knows I love that because it's like we're both baseball fans. >> We're excited about it too we think that along with autonomous vehicles, we think that this whole concept of experiences rather than capabilities and technologies >> but most people don't know that that example of basketball takes massive amounts of compute I mean to make that work at that level. >> In real time. >> This is the CG environment we're seeing with gaming culture the people are expecting an interface that looks more like Call of Duty (laughing) or Minecraft than they are Windows desktop machines what we're used to. We think that's great. >> That's why we say we're building the future John. (men laughing) >> You touched on something you said a little bit ago. A data officer of the federal government has got a tough job, a big job. >> Yes. >> What's the difference between private and public sector somebody who is handling the same kinds of responsibilities but has different compliance pressures different enforcement pressures and those kinds of things so somebody in the public space, what are they facing that somebody on the other side of the fence is not? >> All data officers have a tough job whether it's about cleansing data, being able to ingest it. What we talk about, and you described this, a haystack of needles is the need and ability to create a hyper relevancy to data because hyper relevancy is what makes it possible for personalized medicine and precision medicine. That's what makes it possible for us to do hyper scale personalized retail. This is what makes it possible to drive new innovation is this hyper relevancy and so whether you're working in a highly regulated environment like energy or financial services or whether you're working in the federal government with the department of defense and intelligence agencies or deep space exploration like at NASA you're still solving many data problems that are in common. Of course there are some differences right when you work for the federal government you're a steward of citizen's data that adds a different level of responsibility. There's a legal framework that guides how that data's handled as opposed to just a regulatory and legal one but when it comes to artificial intelligence all of us as practitioners are really focusing on the legal, ethical, and societal implications associate with the implementation of these advanced technologies. >> Quick question end this segment I know we're a little running over time but I wanted to get this last point in and this is something that we've talked on the CUBE a lot me and Dave have been debating because data is very organic innovation. You don't know what your going to do until you get into it, alchemy if you will, but trust and security and policy is a top down slow down mentality so often in the past it's been restricting growth so the balance here that you're getting at is how do you provide the speed and agility of real time experiences while maintaining all the trust and secure requirements that have slowed things down. >> You mention a topic there John and in my last book, 21st Century Leadership I actually described this concept as ambidextrous leadership. This concept of being able to do operational excellence extremely well and focus on delivery of core mission and at the same time be in a position to drive innovation and look forward enough to think about how, not where you are today but where you will be going in the future. This ambidexterity is really a critical factor when we talk about all leadership today, not just leaders in government or people who just work mostly on artificial intelligence. >> It's multidimensional, multi disciplined too right I mean. >> That's right, that's right. >> That's the dev opps ethos, that's the cloud. Move fast, I mean Mark Zuckerberg had the best quote with Facebook, "move fast and break stuff" up until that time he had about a billion users and then changed to move fast and be secure and reliable. (laughing) >> Yeah and don't break anything >> Well he understood you can't just break stuff at some point you got to move fast and be reliable. >> One of five books I want to mention by the way. >> That's right I'm working on my sixth and seventh now but yeah. >> And also the managing of the Greer Institute of Leadership and Management so you've written now almost seven books, you're running this leadership, you're working with Intel what do you do in your spare time Melvin? >> My wife is the chef and >> He eats a lot. (laughing) >> And so I get a chance to chance to enjoy all of the great food she cooks and I have two young sons and they keep me very very busy believe me. >> I think you're busy enough (laughing). Thanks for being on the CUBE. >> I very much appreciate it. >> It's good to have you >> Thank you. >> With us here at the AWS Public Sector Summit back with more coverage live with here on the Cube, Washington D.C. right after this.

>> from Austin, Texas. It's Theo Cube covering your storage Accelerate 2019 Brought to you by pure storage. >> How do y'all welcome back Thio, the Cube leader In live coverage we're covering day to a pure accelerate 19 Lisa Martin With Day Volonte Welcoming to the cue for the first time from SG Mark Peters principal analyst and practice >> Oh, my apologies. So young. >> I wish I wish that was true. >> In fact, one of the first analysts I think that's true if not the first analyst ever on the Q. But, >> well, I'll say Welcome back. Thank you. We're glad to have you here. So you've been with Ishii for quite a while, You know, the storage industry inside and out, I'm sure pure. Just about to celebrate their 10th anniversary. Yesterday we heard lots of news, which is always nice for us to have father to talk about. But I'd love to get your take on this disruptive company. What they've been able to achieve in their 1st 10 years going directly through is Dave's been saying the last two days driving a truck there am sees, install, base, back of the day, your thoughts on how they've been able to achieve what they have. >> That'll last me to talk about something I really want to talk about. And I think it addresses your question. How have they been able to do it? It's by being different. Andi, I don't know. I mean, obviously you do a stack of into sheer and maybe other people have talked about that. But that is the end. When I say different, I don't necessarily mean technology. I have a kind of standard riff in this business that we get so embroiled in the technology. Do not for one second think it's not important, but we get so embroiled in that that we missed the human element or the emotional element on dhe. I think that's important. So they were very different. They created, you know, these thes armies of fans who just bought into what they did. Now, of course, that was based on initially bringing flash to the market making flasher Fordham. Well, they've extended that here with the sea announcement and other things as well, so I don't want to just focus on that, but you know, they continue to do things differently with the technology, But I think what really made them an attractive company and why they've survived 10 years on her now big sizable is because they were a different sort of company to deal with. >> Are you at all surprised that the fourth accelerate is in Austin, Texas? Dell's backyard? Yes. Well, they're disruptive. They're different. They're bold. We're okay, >> you see, But But also, did you go to the other three? >> Uh, the last two. I was trying to remind >> myself where they were. I know one was kind of on a pier in a ballpark in San Francisco. One words. You remember the one that was in that you Worf, But that was a a rusting, so cool it was. But it was a metaphor in a rusting spinning desk, right. But it was also such a different sort of place on, So I probably was also a few it D m c. But I agree. And then the last one was in some sort of constantly. Yes, So >> they were all >> different. And so I Yes, I know this is Dell's backyard. Probably literally, because I'm sure Michael owns a lot of the place. It's also kind of very normal place and so there's a little bit of me that I don't want to use the world worry. But as you grow up and of course, we've got the 10 year anniversary, we're in Austin. What's the tagline of Austin? >> I don't know. No. Keep Austin weird. Okay, >> I >> don't want to suggest appears weird, but they were always a little different, I said. That's why I think they were attracted as much as anything. Yes, that's why I had the hordes of admiring fans, all wearing their orange socks and T shirts and cheering on DDE as they get older as they get more mature as they expand their portfolio. Charlie was on stage talking not so much about scale the problem when he was asked, but more about complexity. As you get more complex, you actually get more normal on, So I don't know that weird is the word, but a bit like Austin pure needs to keep your interesting. >> I like that >> Very interesting. So >> you and I, >> we've been around a while. We were kind of students of the industry. I was commenting earlier that it's just to me very impressive that this company has achieved a new definition of escape velocity receiving a billion dollars show. First company since Nana to do it, I gotta listed three. Park couldn't do it. Compelling data domain isolani ecological left hand. Really good cos all very successful companies. Uh, >> what do you think? It's >> all coming out of >> the dot com crash. Maybe that pay part of it. Pure kind of came out of the, you know, the recession. Why >> do you >> think Pure has been able to achieve that? That you know, four x three par, for example in terms of revenues. And it's got a ways to go. They probably do 1.7 this year. I think they have aspirations for five on enough there. Publicly stated that they probably have, right? Of course. Why wouldn't they thoughts on why they were able to achieve that? What were the sort of factors genuinely know? Having no idea what you were gonna ask me. And now actually, listening to question let me You've just made me think of something that I had not really thought. So I took so long to ask the question formulated. And you are so, um, you used the word escape velocity. Let's think about planes. I mean, you know, I think it's a V one, isn't it to take off, Mitch? Maybe not the same as escape, which is in the skies. But you get the point. How long to really take off? Be independently airborne? They gave themselves. I don't know how much was by design default how it really happened? I don't know. They had an immensely long runway. You think the whole conversation about pure for years and years was Oh, yeah, yeah, they're making loads of revenue, but they lose 80 cents every time they get 50. That was the conversation for years and years. I know they've now turned that corner, and I think the difference. Actually, the more I think about it, yes. You can talk about product. Yes, you can talk about the experience. I think those things are both part of it. But the other companies you named had cool things too. They all had cool products you had. What was it? The autopilot thing with compelling. And they had lots of people cheering. Actually, in this building, I think three part was yellow and kind of cool in a different part of the market. and disruptive. But they were both trying to get to the exit fast. Whether the exit was being bought or whether it was going under. I don't know it was gonna be one or the other, and for both of them, they got bought. I don't think pure had that same intention, and it's certainly got funding and backers that allowed it to take longer. So that's a really good point. I think there's a There's a new Silicon Valley playbook. You saw it with service. Now, with Frank's limits like the Silicon Valley Mafia's Sweetman Dietzen, Bush re at Work Day, they all raised a boatload of cash and a sacrifice profits for for growth. I mean, I remember Dave Scott telling me, you know, when he came on, the board was saying, Hey, we're ready to you know, we're prepared to raise 30 million. He said, I need 80 eighties chump change today compared to what these guys were raising. Well, I mean, I think I mean, they pretty quickly raised hundreds of millions, didn't they? They weren't scraping by on 50 or 80 million, which which is what you see. You sort of want one more thought just this escape velocity idea, I think is interesting because the other thing about escape velocity is partly how long you take runway orbit, whatever. But it's the payload on, you know, The more the payload, the longer it takes the take off the ground or the more thrust you need thrust in this case, his money again. But if you think about it, this is another thing where he and I gotta say, we've been doing this a long time. The storage industry over decades has been one of the easiest industries to enter on one of the hardest to actually do well. Why is that? Because the payload is heavy. It's easy to make a box that works fast, big whatever you want in your garage. Two men on one application working for a day. It's really hard to be interoperable with every app, every other system, operational needs and so on and so forth. And so the payload to be successful. I think they understood that, too. So, you know, they didn't let ourselves get distracted by like the initial shiny, glittery we need to get out of this business. >> I love the parallels with payloads and Rockets. Because, of course, we had Leland Melvin inner keynote this morning. I'm a former NASA geek. Talk to us about your thoughts on their cloud strategy, the evolution of the partnership with a W s. We talked about that yesterday. Sort of this customers bringing this forcing function together, but being able to sort of simplify and give customers this pure management playing the software layer wherever their data is your thoughts on how their position themselves for multi cloud hybrid world. >> Okay, two thoughts, one cloud. Then you also used the word simplicity. So I want to talk about both of those things if I can, Um I don't know. I'm sorry. This is not a very good answer. I think it's the truth. I mean, you can't exist in this world if you haven't got a cloud story, and it better be hybrid or pub. Oh, are multi, whichever you prefer. I think those have very distinct meanings, by the way, but we would be here for an hour and 1/2. It'll be a cube special to really get into that. However, So you've got to do this. I mean, there is just, you know, none of the clients they're dealing with. Almost none. That's not research. I'll talk research in a second but glib statement. Everyone's got a cloud strategy. It doesn't matter which analyst company you put up the data, we'll do it. I want to talk about a cup, some research we've done in a second. But everyone will tell you a high number of people who have a cloud first strategy, whether that's overall or just the new applications or whatever. So they've got to do it. What's crucial to whether or not they succeed is not the AWS branding, because everyone's got a W s branding me people that they don't work with or will not work within the next year or two. I mean, I'm sure there's one God you look like you're anxious, you're on a roll. But simplicity is really important. So David knows we do a lot of research early yesterday, one of our cornerstone piece of researchers think all the spending intentions we do every year. One of the questions this year's Bean for a couple of years now is basically saying simple question Excuse. The overuse of the word is how much more complex is I t you know, in your experience, more or less complex. And it was two years ago. I t broadly and you know that I love this question. You know the answer on dhe. 66% of people say it is more complex now than it was two years ago. People don't want complexity. We all know that there's not enough skills around the research to back that up. A swell on dso Simplicity is really important cause who was sitting in this seat before May I think I will say that the company here was founded on simplicity. That was the point. They were to be the apple of storage. I think that's why people love them. They were just very easy to use on dso coming finally back to your question. If they can do this and keep it simple, then they have a better chance of success than others. But how do you define successful them isn't keeping their customers are getting new ones. That's a challenge. >> They do have a very high retention rate. I want to say like 140% but things like we have our dinner for two U percent attention. Yes. How did >> you do? So? So this is is interesting. It's actually 100 and 50% renewal rate. Oh, by the Mike Scarpelli CFO Math of renewal rates on a dollar value on net dollar value renewal rate subscriptions. Mike Scarpelli was the CFO of service. Now invented this model and service now had, like, 100 and whatever 1500 whatever 27. And so it's a revenue based renewal. Makes sense. Sorry for one second you're retaining more people than you >> go. 101 100 >> 50% is insane. 105 >> percent is great. Yeah, 150% is interrupted. Your question. >> Well, I'm just saying >> it's good. Good nuance, >> Yes, Thanks for clarifying its. You know, companies can say whether it's one. Appears customers are pure themselves or competitors. We are cloud. First, we have a cloud for strategy, and a company like pure can say we deliver simplicity, those air marketing terms until they're actually put in the field and delivered. So in your perspective, how does pure take what I T professionals are saying? Things are so much more complex these days? How does a pure commit and say simple, seamless, sustainable, like Charlie, Giancarlo said yesterday. And actually make that a reality. Well, I >> mean, obviously, that's their challenge, and that's what they have work to do to some degree. And this comes back to what I was saying that to some degree it becomes self fulfilling because your that's why your customers come back with more money because they bought into this on. So as long as they're kept happy, they're probably not going to go and look at 20 other people. I'm not saying they never had any of that simplicity to start off with, but it's very interesting if you go to a pure event, their customers and this might be sacrilege sitting in this environment don't talk about the product. They talk about the company, >> right? >> The experience There's that word again, off being appear customer yes on So they're into it. They brought into whatever this is, and as long as the product, please do not strike me down is good enough. I'm not saying that's all it is. I think it's a lot better that, but as long as it's good enough, but you're really well looked after a few minutes ago, when I'm saying that's why I think this market is about so much more than just how fast can you make the box? How big can you make the box? How smart can you make the box? All of those are interesting, But ultimately, I'm only looking at Dave because he's so old. Ultimately, technology is a leapfrog game. Yeah, branding is not >> Beaver >> s O. So that's a good point. But we've not seen the competitors be able to leap frog pure or be able to neutralize them the way, for example, that DMC was able to somewhat neutralize three par by saying, Oh, yeah, we have virtual ization, too, you know, are thin provisioning. Rather. Yeah. And even though they had a thin provisioning bolt on, it was it was good enough. Yes, they did the check box. You haven't seen the competitors be able to do that here? I'm not saying they won't, but are they? I think, um, I was going to say basically this on my MBA, but I don't have one, so I can't say that, but, you know, I've read that. Read the books. If you look at Harvard Business School cases, I think the mistake made by the competition was to assume that Pierre would go away, that they would each try it or that it would fail on will make fun of the fact they don't make any money for the first few years on dhe. You know, the people going to them, we're gonna be sadly mistaken when they can't handle these features, whether that be cloud or whether that be analytics or fresh blades or whatever else again to add on. They thought they would just go away that there are great parallels in history when you let competition in and you just keep thinking at each point they're going to go away. Spot the accent. British motorcycle industry. When the Japanese came in, they literally said, Well, let them. There are records. We'll let them have the 50 cc market because we don't really care about that. But we'll make the big bikes Well, Okay, well, let them have 152 100 cc because really, that doesn't matter. And 10 years later, there was no industry well, and I think what happened with the emcee in particular because, let's face it, pure hired a bunch of DMC wraps. They took your product and, as I've said before, they drove a truck to the the symmetric V n X install base Emcee responded by buying X extreme io and they said, You know what? We're sick of losing the pure. We're gonna go really aggressive into our own accounts and we're gonna keep them with flash. And then what happened is their accounts. It Hey, we're good. We don't actually really need more stores because the emcee tried to keep it is trying to keep both lines alive. And now they're conflicted, pure. You know, I had a what? We're mission. >> You thought not up a great point. Sorry. Just just because I think >> thing about that is if you look at how e. M. C using my words accurately usedto act, I think you said that, too. So I'm not criticizing Adele is they were exceptional organized marketing organization. We go that way. And if you're not going that way, you got a big problem both as a custom, Miranda's UN employees. But the problem with that is also is that way would sometimes become that way, and then it become that way on the product depending what was doing well. So, for example, they had, you know, tens of thousands of feet, all marching to the extreme. I owe beat for a few quarters, and then they would go off on to the next product pure. Just carried on, marching to its beat down that runway escape velocity question >> appoint you brought up a minute ago before we wrap her. That I think is really interesting is that you write your customers talk about the experience. I think we were talking with a customer yesterday. Dave was asking, Well, what technologies are you think he started talking about workloads? So when we're at other events, you hear other names of boxes brought up here to your point. It is all about the experience so interesting and how they're Can you continuing to just be different, but to wrap things up since they're in my ear, we're almost that time. I just wanna take a minute to ask you kind of upcoming research. What are some of the things that you're working on? Their really intriguing you and SG land. I think right >> now, from my perspective, I mean, as a company would continue to do 27,000 different things because there's so much going on in the market. So whether that's security is massive area of focus right now, even improvements in networking. So it's not just the regular run of the mill, you know, Bigger, faster, cheaper. Which is always there s o A. I, of course, in all these again, you may both know you will now doesn't mean we're always looking at buying intentions rather than counting boxes. So it's really where people are moving over the next few years. That said to May. I think what's really interesting is to other things. Number one is to what extent can. I don't think we can really measure this easily. But to what extent can we get people talking about pure again to acknowledge that emotions, attitudes, experiences are an important part of this business? I'm old enough that I'm not scared of saying it, and I think pure is a company is not scared of saying it, you know, I think a lot of companies don't want to admit that Andi all know that they have different corporate cultures and mantras and views on their customers reflect that two on The other thing just generally is the future of I t. As a whole. I know that. So, I mean, I'm doing this because none of us really know what that is, but, you know, clearly way gotta stop talking about the cloud At some point. It's just part of I t. It's not a thing as such. It's just another resource that you bring to bear. I don't know that we're yet at that point, but that's >> got to happen. >> Interesting. Thanks for looking. I'm imagine this was a crystal ball. But Mark, I wish we had more time because I know we could keep talking. But it's been a pleasure to have you >> got the whole multi cloud hybrid cloud for an hour and 1/2. >> We come back, we'll have that discussion. Like what I'll means and yeah, back anytime. >> Excellent. Thank you for joining David. Me. Thank you for David. Dante. I'm Lisa Martin. You were watching the Cube from pure accelerate 19

>> Announcer: From Austin, Texas it's The Cube covering Pure Storage Accelerate 2019, brought to you by Pure Storage. >> Good morning. From Austin, Texas, Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante at Pure Accelerate 2019. This is our second day. We just came from a very cool, interesting, keynote, Dave whenever there's astronauts my inner NASA geek from the early 2000s. She just comes right back up Leland Melvin was on >> Amazing, right? >> With a phenomenal story. Talking about technology and the feeling of innovation but also a great story of inspiration from a steam perspective science, technology, engineering, arts, math, I loved that and, >> Dave: And fun >> Very fun. But also... >> One of the better talks I've ever seen >> It really was. It had so many elements that I think you didn't have to be a NASA fan or a NASA geek or a space geek to appreciate the all of the lessons that Leland Melvin learned along the way that he really is inspiring, everybody the audience to take note of. It was I thought it was... >> And incredibly accomplished, right? I mean scientist, MIT engineer, played in the NFL, went to space, he had some really fun stuff when they were, you know, messing around with with gravity. >> Lisa: Yes. >> I never knew you could do that. He had like this water. >> Lisa: Water, yeah. >> Bubble. >> I'd never seen that before and they were throwing M&M's inside (laughter) and he, you know consumed it choked on it, which is pretty funny. >> Yeah, well it was near and dear to me. I worked with NASA my first job out of grad school. >> Dave: Really? >> I did, and managed biological pilots that flew on the space shuttle and the mission that the he talked about that didn't land, Colombia. That was the mission that I worked on. So when he talked about that countdown clock going positive. I was there on the runway with that. So for me, it just struck a chord of, >> Dave: so this is of course the 50th anniversary of the moonwalk. And you know I have this thing about watches, kind of like what you have with shoes (chuckles) >> Lisa: Hey, handbags. >> Is that not true? Oh, It's handbags for you? (laughing) >> Dave: I know this really that was a terrible thing for me to say. >> That's okay. >> Dave: You have great shoes so I just I just assumed that not good to make assumptions. So I bought a moon watch this year which was the watch that Neil Armstrong used to not the exact one but similar one, right? >> Lisa: Yeah. And it actually has an acrylic face because they're afraid if it cracked in space you'd have glass all over the place. [Lisa] Right. So that's a little nostalgia there. >> Well one of the main things too as you look at the mission that President John F. Kennedy established in the 60's for getting a man in space in that 10-year period. That being accomplished and kind of a parallel with what Pure Storage has done in its first 10 years of tremendous innovation. This keynote again Day 2, standing room only at least about 3000 people or so here. Storage as James Governor said, your friend and also who keynoted after Leland this morning you know, (mumbles) Software's eating the world storage is eating the world we have to have secure locations to store all this data so that we can extract maximum value from it. So nice parallel between the space program and Pure Storage. >> James is really good, isn't he? I mean he had to follow Leland and I mean again one of the better talks I've ever heard, but James is very strong, he's funny, he's witty he's he cuts to the chase. >> Lisa: Yes. >> He always tells it like it is. He's a very Monkchips is very focused on developers and they do a really good job there, one of the things he talked about was S3 and how Amazon uses this working backwards methodology which maybe a lot of people don't know about but what they do is they write and rewrite and rewrite and vet and rewrite the press release before they announce the product and even before they develop the products they write the press release and then they work backwards from there. So this is the outcome that we are trying to achieve, and it's very disciplined process that they use and as he said they may revise it hundreds and hundreds of times and he put up Andy Jassy's quote from 2004, around S3. That actually surprised me. 2000...Maybe I read it wrong. >> Lisa: No, it was 2004. >> Because S3 came out after EC2 which was 2006 so I don't know. Maybe I'm getting my dates wrong or I think James actually got his dates wrong but who knows, maybe you know what? Maybe he got a copy of that from the internal working document, working backwards doc that could be what it was but again the point being they envisioned this simple storage that developers didn't have to think about >> Lisa: Right. >> That was virtually unlimited in capacity, highly available and you know, dirt cheap which is what people want and so he talked about that and then he gave a little history of the Dell technology families and I tweeted out this in a funny little you know basically pivotal VM ware EMC and Dell and their history Dell was basically IPO 1984 and then today. There was a few things in between I know but he's got a great perspective on things and I think it resonated with the audience then he talked a lot about Kubernetes jokingly tongue-in-cheek how Kubernetes everybody thought was going to kill VMware but his big takeaway was look you got all these skills of (mumbles) Skills, core database skills, I would even add to that you know understanding how storage works and I always joke if your career is based on managing lawns you might want to rethink your career. But his point was which I liked was look all those skills you've learned are valuable but you now have to step up your game and learn new skills. You have to build on top of those skills so the history you have and the knowledge that you've built up is very valuable but it's not going to propel you to the next decade and so I thought that was a good takeaway and it was an excellent talk. >> So looking back at the conversations yesterday the press releases that came out the advancements of what Pure is doing, with AWS, with Nvidia, with the AI data-hub for example, delivering more of their portfolio as a service to allow businesses whether it's a law-firm like we talked to yesterday utility or Mercedes AMG Petronas Motor-sport, to be able to access data securely, incredibly quickly, recover it restore it absolutely critical and really can be game-changing depending on the type of organization. I want to get your perspectives on some of the things you heard anecdotally yesterday after we wrapped in terms of the atmosphere, the vibe, the thoughts on Pure's next 10 years. >> Yeah, so several things, just some commentary so it's always good at night you go around you get a lot of data we sometimes call it metadata. I think one of the more interesting announcements to me was the block-storage on AWS. I don't necessarily think that this is going to be a huge product near term for Pure in terms of meaningful revenue, but I think it's interesting that they're embracing the trend of the Cloud and are actually architecting Cloud solutions using Amazon services and blending in their own super gluing their own, I mean it's not really superglue but blending in their own software for their customers to extend. Now, you know some of the nuances I don't think they are going to have they have better right performance I think they'll have better read performance clearly they have better availability I think it's going to be a little bit more expensive. All these things are TBD that's just my take based on looking at what I've seen and talking to some people but to me the important thing is that Pure's embracing that Cloud model. Historically, companies that are trying to defend an existing business, they retreat. You know, they denigrate they don't embrace. We know that Pure's going to make more money on pram than it does in the Cloud. At least I think. And so it's to their advantage for companies to stay on-prem but at the same time they understand that trend is your friend and they're embracing that so that was kind of one thing. The second thing I learned is Charlie Giancarlo spent a lot of time with them last night as did you. He's a bit of a policy wonk in very certain narrow areas. He shared with me some of the policy work that he's done around IP protection and not necessarily though on the side that you would think. You would think that okay IP protection that's a good thing but a lot of the laws that were trying to be promoted for IP protection were there to help big companies essentially crush small companies so he fought against that. He shared with me some things around net neutrality. You would think you know you think you know which side of net neutrality he'd be on not necessarily so he had some really interesting perspectives on that. We also talked to and I won't share the name of the company but a very large financial institution that's that's betting a lot on Pure was very interesting to me. This is one of the brand names everybody would know it if you heard it. And their head of storage infrastructure was here, at the show. Now I know this individual and this person doesn't go to a lot of shows >> Maybe a couple a year. >> This person chose to come to this show because they're making an investment in Pure. In a fairly big way and they spent a lot of time with Pure management, expressing their desires as part of an executive form that Pure holds they didn't really market that a lot they didn't really tell us too much about it because it was a little private thing but I happen to know this individual and and I learned several things. They like Pure a lot, they use it for a lot of their workloads, but they have a lot of other storage, they can't necessarily get rid of that other storage for a lot of reasons. Inertia, technical debt, good tickets at the baseball game, all kinds of politics going on there. I also asked specifically about some hybrid companies products where the the cost structure's a little bit better so this gets me to flash array C and we talked to Charlie Giancarlo about this about his flash prices come down and it and opens up new markets. I got some other data yesterday and today that you know that flash array C is not going to be quite priced we don't think as well as hybrid arrays closing the gap it's between one and one and a quarter, one and a half dollars per gigabyte whereas hybrid arrays you are seeing half that, 70 cents a gigabyte. Sometimes as low as 60 cents a gigabyte. Sometimes higher, sometimes high as a dollar but the average around 65-70 cents a gigabyte so there's still a gap there. Flash prices have to come down further. Another thing I learned I'm going to just keep going. >> Lisa: Go ahead! >> The other thing I learned is that China is really building a lot of fab capacity in NAND to try to take out the thumb-drive market-place so they are going to go after the low-end. So companies like Samsung and Toshiba, Toshiba just renamed the company, I can't remember the name of the company but Micron and the NAND flash NAND manufacturers are going to have to now go use their capacity and go after the enterprise because China fab is going to crush the low-end and bomb the low-end pricing. Somebody else told me about a third of flash consumption is in China now. So interesting things going on there. So near term, flash array C is not going to just crush spinning disk and hybrid, it's going to get closer and it's going to slowly eat away at that as NAND prices come down it really could more rapidly eat away at that. So I just learned some other stuff too but I'll take a breath. (laughter) >> So one of the things I think we are resounding with it we heard not just yesterday on the program day but even last night at the executive event we were at is that from this large financial services company that you mentioned, Pure storage is a strategic partner to many organizations from small to large that is incredibly valued to your point the Shuttleman only goes to maybe a couple of events a year and this is one of them? >> Dave: Right. >> This is a company that in its first 10 years has embraced competition head on and I loved how you talked about yesterday 10 years ago they just drove a truck through EMC's market and sort of ripping and replacing. They're bold but they're also doing it in a way that's very methodical. They're working on bringing you know changing companies' perspectives of even backup data as becoming an asset to put it on flash. Because if you can't rapidly restore that, if there's an outage whether it is an attack or it's unintentional human related, that data can't be recovered quickly, you're in a big big problem. And so them as a strategic component of this isn't in any industry I think it was a very resounding sentiment that I heard and felt yesterday. >> Yeah, this ties into tam expansion of what we talked to Charlie Giancarlo about new workloads with AI as an example flash or AC lowering prices will open up those some of those new workloads data protection backup is clearly an opportunity and I think it's interesting, you're seeing a lot of companies now announce a lot of vendors announce flash based recovery systems I'll call them recovery systems because I don't even consider them backup anymore it's not about backup, it's about recovery. Oracle was actually one of the first to use that kind of concept with the zero data loss recovery appliance they call it recovery. So it's all about fast and near instantaneous recovery. Why is that important? It's because it's companies move toward a digital transformation and what does that mean? And what is a digital business? Digital business is all about how you use data and leveraging data in new ways to create new value to monetise or cut cost. And so being able to have access to that data and recover from any inaccess to that data in a split-second is crucial. So Pure can participate in that, now Pure's not alone You know, it's no coincidence that Veritas and Veeam and Cohesity and Rubrik they work with Pure, they work with HPE. They work with a lot of the big players and so but so Pure has to you know, has some work to do to win its fair share. Staying on backup for a moment, you know it's interesting to see, behind us, Veritas and Veeam have the biggest sort of presence here. Rubrik has a presence here. I'm sure Cohesity is here maybe someway, somehow but I haven't seen them >> I haven't either. >> Maybe they're not here. I'll have to check that up, but you know Veeam is actually doing very well particularly with lower ASPs we know that about Veeam. They've always come at it from the mid-market and SMB. Whereas Cohesity and Rubrik and Veritas traditionally are coming at it from a higher-end. Certainly Cohesity and Rubrik on higher ASPs. Veeam's doing very well with Pure. They're also doing very well with HPE which is interesting. Cohesity announced a deal with HPE recently I don't know, about six months ago somebody thought "Oh maybe Veeaam's on the outs." No, Veeam's doing very well with HPE. It's different parts of the organization. One works with the server group, one works with the storage group and both companies are actually doing quite well I actually think Veeam is ahead of the curve 'cause they've been working with HPE for quite some time and they're doing very well in the Pure base. By partnering with companies, Pure is able to enter that market much in the same way that NetApp did in the early days. They have a very tight relationship for example with Commvault. So, the other thing I was talking to Keith Townsend last night totally not secretor but he's talking about Outpost and how Amazon is going to be challenged to service Outpost Outpost is the on-prem Amazon stack, that VMware and Amazon announced that they're co-marketing. So who is going to service outpost? It's not going to be Amazon, that's not their game in professional service. It's going to have to be the ecosystem, the large SIs or the Vars the partners, VMware partners 'cause that's not Vmwares play either. So Keith Townsend's premise, I'd love to have him on The Cube to talk about this, is they're going to have trouble scaling Outpost because of that service issue. Believe it or not when we come to these conferences, we talk about other things than just, Pure. There's a lot of stuff going on. New Relic is happening this week. Oracle open world is going on this week. John Furrier just got back from AWS Bahrain, and of course we're here at Pure Accelerate. >> We are and this is our second day of two days of coverage. We've got Coz on next who I think has never been on The Cube. >> Dave: Not to my knowledge. >> We've got Kix on later. A great lineup, more customers Rob Lee is going to be on. So we're going to be digging more into Pure's Cloud strategy, the next ten years, how they're going to accelerate that and pack it into the next couple of years. >> I'll tell you one of the things I want to do, Lisa. I'll just call it out. An individual from Dell EMC wrote a blog ahead of Pure Accelerate I think it was last week, about four or five days ago and this individual called out like one, two, three, four.... five things that we should ask Pure so we should ask them, we should ask Coz we should ask Kix. There was criticism, of course they're biased. These guys they always fight. >> Lisa: Naturally. >> They have these internecine wars. >> Lisa: Yep. >> Sometimes I like to call them... no I won't say it. So scale out, question mark there we want to ask Coz about that and Kix. Pure uses proprietary flash modules. They do that because it allows them to do things that you can't do with off-the-shelf flash. I want to ask and challenge them that. I want to ask about their philosophy on tiering. They don't really believe in tiering, why not? I want to understand that better. They've made some acquisitions, Compuverde is one acquisition, it's a file system. What does that mean for flash play? >> Now we didn't hear anything about that yesterday, so that's a good point that we should dig into that. >> Yeah, so we'll bring that up. And then the Evergreen competitors hate Evergreen because Pure was first with it they caught everybody off guard. I said it yesterday, competitors hate Evergreen because competitors live off of maintenance and if you're not on their maintenance they just keep jacking up the maintenance prices and if you don't move to the new system, maintenance just keeps getting more and more and more and more expensive and so they force you, you're locked in. Force you to move. Pure introduced this different model. You pay for the CapEx up front and then, you know, after three years you get a controller swap. You know, so... >> To your point competitors hate it, customers love it. We heard a lot about that yesterday, we've got a couple more customers on our packed program today, Dave so let's get right to it! >> Great. >> Let's wrap up so we can get Coz on stage. >> Dave: Alright, awesome. >> Alright, for Dave Vellante. I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching The Cube from Pure Accelerate 2019, day two. Stick around 'Coz' John Colgrove, CTO, founder of Pure, will be on next. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live, fro-- >> Announcer: Live from Vancouver, Canada it's theCUBE! Covering OpenStack Summit North America 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat, the OpenStack Foundation, and it's ecosystem partners. >> Hi and welcome to SiliconANGLE Media's production of theCUBE here at OpenStack Summit 2018 in Vancouver. I'm Stu Miniman with my cohost, John Troyer. We're here for three days of live wall-to-wall coverage at the OpenStack Foundation's show they have it twice a year John, pleasure to be with you again, you and I were together at the OpenStack show in Boston, a year ago, little bit further trip for me. But views like this, I'm not complaining. >> It's a great time to be in Vancouver, little bit overcast but the convention center's beautiful and the people seem pretty excited as well. >> Yeah so if you see behind us, the keynote let out. So John, we got to get into the first question of course for some reason the last month people are always Hey Stu where are you, what're you doing and when I walk through the various shows I'm doing when it comes to this one they're like, why are you going to the OpenStack show? You know, what's going on there, hasn't that been replaced by everything else? >> I got the same thing, there seems to be kind of a almost an antireligious thing here in the industry maybe more emotional perhaps at other projects. Although frankly look, we're going to take the temperature of the community, we're going to take the temperature of the projects, the customers, we got a lot of customers here, that's really the key here is that our people actually using this, being productive, functional, and is there enough of a vendor and a community ecosystem to make this go forward. >> Absolutely, so three years ago, when we were actually here in Vancouver, the container sessions were overflowing, people sitting in the aisles. You know containers, containers, containers, docker, docker, docker, you know, we went through a year or two of that. Then Kubernetes, really a wave that has taken over, this piece of the infrastructure stack, the KubeCon and CloudNativeCon shows, in general, I think have surpassed this size, but as we know in IT, nothing ever dies, everything is always additive, and a theme that I heard here that definitely resonated is, we have complexity, we need to deal with interoperability, everybody has a lot of things and that's the, choose your word, hybrid, multi-cloud world that you have, and that's really the state of opensource, it's not a thing, it's there's lots of things you take all the pieces you need and you figure out how to put 'em together, either buy them from a platform, you have some integrator that helps, so somebody that puts it all together, and that's where, you know, we live here, which is, by they way, I thought they might rename the show in the open, and they didn't, but there's a lot of pieces to discuss. >> Definitely an open infrastructure movement, we'll probably talk about that, look I loved the message this morning that the cloud is not consolidating, in fact it's getting more complicated, and so that was a practical message here, it's a little bit of a church of opensource as well, so the open message was very well received and, these are the people that are working on it, of course, but yeah, the fact that, like last year I thought in Boston, there was a lot of, almost confusion around containers, and where containers and Kubernetes fit in the whole ecosystem, I think, now in this year in 2018 it's a lot more clear and OpenStack as a project, or as a set of projects, which traditionally was, the hit on it was very insular and inward facing, has at least, is trying to become outward facing, and again that's something we'll be looking at this week, and how well will they integrate with other opensource projects. >> I mean John, you and I are both big supporters of the opensource movements, love the community at shows like this, but not exclusively, it's, you know, Amazon participating a little bit, using a lot of opensource, they take opensource and make it as a service, you were at Red Hat Summit last week, obviously huge discussion there about everything opensource, everything, so a lot going on there, let me just set for, first of all the foundation itself in this show, the thing that I liked, coming into it, one of the things we're going to poke at is, if I go up to the highest level, OpenStack is not the only thing here, they have a few tracks they have an Edge computer track, they have a container track, and there's a co-resident OpenDev Show happening a couple floors above us and, even from what the OpenStack Foundation manages, yes it OpenStack's the main piece of it, and all those underlying projects but, they had Katacontainers, which is, you know, high level project, and the new one is Zuul, talking about CI/CD, so there are things that, will work with OpenStack but not exclusively for OpenStack, might not even come from OpenStack, so those are things that we're seeing, you know, for example, I was at the Veeam show last week, and there was a software company N2WS that Veeam had bought, and that solution only worked on Amazon to start and, you know, I was at the Nutanix show the week before, and there's lots of things that start in the Amazon environment and then make their way to the on-premises world so, we know it's a complex world, you know, I agree with you, the cloud is not getting simpler, remember when cloud was: Swipe the credit card and it's super easy, the line I've used a lot of times is, it is actually more complicated to buy, quote, a server equivalent, in the public could, than it is if I go to the website and have something that's shipped to my data center. >> It's, yeah, it's kind of ironic that that's where we've ended up. You know, we'll see, with Zuul, it'll be very interesting, one of the hits again on OpenStack has been reinvention of the wheel, like, can you inter-operate with other projects rather than doing it your self, it sounds like there's some actually, some very interesting aspects to it, as a CI/CD system, and certainly it uses stuff like Ansible so it's, it's built using opensource components, but, other opensource components, but you know, what does this give us advantage for infrastructure people, and allowing infrastructure to go live in a CI/CD way, software on hardware, rather than, the ones that've been built from the dev side, the app side. I'm assuming there's good reasons, or they wouldn't've done it, but you know, we'll see, there's still a lot of projects inside the opensource umbrella. >> Yeah, and, you know, last year we talked about it, once again, we'll talk about it here, the ecosystem has shifted. There are some of the big traditional infrastructure companies, but what they're talking about has changed a lot, you know. Remember a few years ago, it was you know, HP, thousand people, billion dollar investment, you know, IBM has been part of OpenStack since the very beginning days, but it changes, even a company like Rackspace, who helped put together this environment, the press release that went was: oh, we took all the learnings that we did from OpenStack, and this is our new Kubernetes service that we have, something that I saw, actually Randy Bias, who I'll have on the show this week, was on, the first time we did this show five years ago, can't believe it's the sixth year we're doing the show, Randy is always an interesting conversation to poke some of the sacred cows, and, I'll use that analogy, of course, because he is the one that Pets vs Cattle analogy, and he said, you know, we're spending a lot of time talking about it's not, as you hear, some game, between OpenStack and Kubernetes, containers are great, isn't that wonderful. If we're talking about that so much, maybe we should just like, go do that stuff, and not worry about this, so it'll be fun to talk to him, the Open Dev Show is being, mainly, sponsored by Mirantis who, last time I was here in Vancouver was the OpenStack company, and now, like, I saw them a year ago, and they were, the Kubernetes company, and making those changes, so we'll have Boris on, and get to find out these companies, there's not a lot of ECs here, the press and analysts that are here, most of us have been here for a lot of time so, this ecosystem has changed a lot, but, while attendance is down a little bit, from what I've heard, from previous years, there's still some good energy, people are learning a lot. >> So Stu, I did want to point out, that something I noticed on the stage, that I didn't see, was a lot of infrastructure, right? OpenStack, clearly an infrastructure stack, I think we've teased that out over the past couple years, but I didn't see a lot of talk about storage subsystems, networking, management, like all the kind of, hard, infrastructure plumbing, that actually, everybody here does, as well as a few names, so that was interesting, but at the end of the day, I mean, you got to appeal to the whole crowd here. >> Yeah, well one of the things, we spent a number of years making that stuff work, back when it was, you know, we're talkin' about gettin' Cinder, and then all the storage companies lined up with their various, do we support it, is it fully integrated, and then even further, does it actually work really well? So, same stuff that went through, for about a decade, in virtualization, we went through this in OpenStack, we actually said a couple years ago, some of the basic infrastructure stuff has gotten boring, so we don't need to talk about it anymore. Ironic, it's actually the non-virtualized environments, that's the project that they have here, we have a lot of people who are talking bare metal, who are talking containers, so that has shifted, an interesting one in the keynote is that you had the top level sponsors getting up there, Intel bringing around a lot of their ecosystem partners, talking about Edge, talking about the telecommunications, Red Hat, giving a recap of what they did last week at their summit, they've got a nice cadence, the last couple of years, they've done Red Hat Summit, and OpenStack Summit, back-to-back so that they can get that flow of information through, and then Mark Shuttleworth, who we'll have on a little bit later today, he came out puchin', you know, he started with some motherhood in Apple Pi about how Ubuntu is everywhere but then it was like, and we're going to be so much cheaper, and we're so much easier than the VMwares and Red Hats of the world, and there was a little push back from the community, that maybe that wasn't the right platform to do it. >> Yeah, I think the room got kind of cold, I mean, that's kind of a church in there, right, and everyone is an opensource believer and, this kind of invisible hand of capitalism (laughs) reached in and wrote on the wall and, you know, having written and left. But at the end of the day, right, somebody's got to pay for babies new shoes. I think that it was also very interesting seeing, at Red Hat Summit, which I covered on theCUBE, Red Hat's argument was fairly philosophical, and from first principles. Containers are Linux, therefore Red Hat, and that was logically laid out. Mark's, actually I loved Mark's, most of his speech, which was very practical, this, you know, Ubuntu's going to make both OpenStack and containers simpler, faster, quicker, and cheaper, so it was clearly benefits, and then, for the folks that don't know, then he put up a couple a crazy Eddy slides like, limited time offer, if you're here at the show, here's a deal that we've put together for ya, so that was a little bit unusual for a keynote. >> Yeah, and there are a lot of users here, and some of them'll hear that and they'll say: yeah, you know, I've used Red Hat there but, you can save me money that's awesome, let me find out some more about it. Alright, so, we've got three days of coverage here John, and we get to cover this really kind of broad ecosystem that we have here. You talked about what we don't discuss anymore, like the major lease was Queens, and it used to be, that was where I would study up and be like oh okay, we've got Hudson, and then we got, it was the letters of the alphabet, what's the next one going to be and what are the major features it's reached a certain maturity level that we're not talking the release anymore, it's more like the discussions we have in cloud, which is sometimes, here's some of the major things, and oh yeah, it just kind of wraps itself in. Deployments still, probably aren't nearly as easy as we'd like, Shuttleworth said two guys in under two weeks, that's awesome, but there's solutions we can put, stand up much faster than that now, two weeks is way better than some of the historical things we've done, but it changes quite a bit. So, telecommunications still a hot topic, Edge is something, you know what I think back, it was like, oh, all those NFE conversations we've had here, it's not just the SDN changes that are happening, but this is the Edge discussion for the Telcos, and something people were getting their arms around, so. >> It's pretty interesting to think of the cloud out on telephone poles, and in branch offices, in data centers, in closets basically or under desks almost. >> No self-driving cars on the keynote stage though? >> No, nothing that flashy this year. >> No, definitely not too flashy so, the foundation itself, it's interesting, we've heard rumors that maybe the show will change name, the foundation will not change names. So I want to give you last things, what're you looking for this week, what were you hearing from the community leading up to the show that you want to validate or poke at? >> Well, I'm going to look at real deployments, I'd like to see how standard we are, if we are, if an OpenStack deployment is standardized enough that the pool of talent is growing, and that if I hire people from outside my company who work with OpenStack, I know that they can work with my OpenStack, I think that's key for the continuation of this ecosystem. I want to look at the general energy and how people are deploying it, whether it does become really invisible and boring, but still important. Or do you end up running OpenShift on bare metal, which I, as an infrastructure person, I just can't see that the app platform should have to worry about all this infrastructure stuff, 'cause it's complicated, and so, I'll just be looking for the healthy productions and production deployments and see how that goes. >> Yeah, and I love, one of the things that they started many years ago was they have a super-user category, where they give an award, and I'm excited, we have actually have the Ontario Institute for Cancer Research is one of our guests on today, they won the 2018 super-user group, it's always awesome when you see, not only it's like, okay, CERN's here, and they're doing some really cool things looking for the Higgs boson, and all those kind of things but, you know, companies that are using technology to help them attack the battle against cancer, so, you know, you can't beat things like that. We've got the person from the keynote, Melvin, who was up on stage talking about the open lab, you know, community, ecosystem, definitely something that resonates, I know, one of the reasons I pulled you into this show in the last year is you're got a strong background there. >> Super impressed by all the community activity, this still feels like a real community, lots of pictures of people, lots of real, exhortations from stage to like, we who have been here for years know each other, please come meet us, so that's a real sign of also, a healthy community dynamic. >> Alright, so John first of all, I want to say, Happy Victoria Day, 'cause we are here in Vancouver, and we've got a lot going on here, it's a beautiful venue, hope you all join us for all of the coverage here, and I have to give a big shout out to the companies that allowed this to happen, we are independent media, but we can't survive without the funding of our sponsors so, first of all the OpenStack Foundation, helps get us here, and gives us this lovely location overlooking outside, but if it wasn't for the likes of our headline sponsor Red Hat as well as Canonical, Kontron, and Nuage Networks, we would not be able to bring you this content so, be sure to checkout thecube.net for all the coverage, for John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman, thanks so much for watching theCUBE. 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