we're back at vemma in 2022 we're here at the aria hotel in las vegas this is thecube's continuous coverage we're day two welcome to the cxo session we have ceo cto cso chief strategy officer brett diamond is the ceo justin jardina is the cto and dante orsini is the chief strategy officer for 11 11 systems recently named i guess today the impact cloud service provider of the year congratulations guys welcome thank you welcome back to the cube great to see you again thank you great likewise so okay brett let's start with you tell give us the overview of 11 1111 uh your focus area talk about the the the island acquisition what that what that's all about give us the setup yeah so we started 11-11 uh really with a focus on taking the three core pillars of our business which are cloud connectivity and security bring them together into one platform allowing a much easier way for our customers and our partners to procure those three solution sets through a single company and really focus on uh the three main drivers of the business uh which you know have a litany of other services associated with them under each platform okay so so justin cloud connectivity and security they all dramatically changed in march of 2020 everybody had to go to the cloud the rather rethink the network had a secure remote worker so what did you see from a from a cto's perspective what changed and how did 11 respond sure so early on when we built our cloud even back into 2008 we really focused on enterprise great features one of which being uh very flexible in the networking so we found early on was that we would be able to architect solutions for customers that were dipping their toe in the cloud and set ourselves apart from some of the vendors at the time so if you fast forward from 2008 until today we still see that as a main component for iaz and draz and the ability to start taking into some of the things brett talked about where customers may need a point-to-point circuit to offload data connectivity to us or develop sd-wan and multi-cloud solutions to connect to their resources in the cloud in my opinion it's just the natural progression of what we set out to do in 2008 and to couple that with the security um if you think about what that opens up from a security landscape now you have multiple clouds you have different ingress and egress points you have different people accessing workloads in each one of these clouds so the idea or our idea is that we can layer a comprehensive security solution over this new multi-cloud networking world and then provide visibility and manageability to our customer base so what does that mean specifically for your customers because i mean we saw obviously a rapid move toward endpoint um cloud security uh identity access you know people really started thinking rethinking that as opposed to trying to just you know build a moat around the castle right um what does that mean for for your customer you take care of all that you partner with whomever you need to partner in the ecosystem and then you provide the managed service how does that work right it does and that's a great analogy you know we have a picture of a hamburger in our office exploded with all the components and they say a good security policy is all the pieces and it's really synonymous with what you said so to answer your question yes we have all that baked in the platform we can offer managed services around it but we also give the consumer the ability to access that data whether it's a ui or api so dante i know you talk to a lot of customers all you do is watch the stock market go like this and like that you say okay the pandemic drove all these but but when you talk to csos and customers a lot of things are changing permanently first of all they were forced to march to digital when previously they were like we'll get there i mean a lot of customers were let's face it i mean some were serious about it but many weren't now if you're not a digital business you're out of business what have you seen when you talk to customers in terms of the permanence of some of these changes what are they telling you well i think we go through this for ourselves right the business continues to grow you've got tons of people that are working remotely and that are going to continue to work remotely right as much as we'd like to offer up hybrid workspace and things like that some folks are like hey i've worked it out i'm working out great from home right and also i think what justin was saying also is we've seen time go on that operating environment has gotten much more complex you've got stuff in the data center stuff it's somebody's you know endpoint you've got various different public clouds different sas services right that's why it's been phenomenal to work with veeam because we can protect that data regardless of where it exists but when you start to look at some of the managed security services that we're talking about we're helping those csos you get better visibility better control and take proactive action against the infrastructure um when we look at threat mitigation and how to actually respond when when something does happen right and i think that's the key because there's no shortage of great security vendors right but how do you tie it all together into a single solution right with a vendor that you can actually partner with to help secure the environment while you go focus on the things they're more strategic to the business i was talking to jim mercer at um red hat summit last week he's an idc analyst and he said we did a survey i think it was last summer and we asked customers to your point about there's no shortage of security tools how do you want to buy your security and you know do you want you know best to breed bespoke tools and you sort of put it together or do you kind of want your platform provider to do it now surprisingly they said platform provider the the problem is that's aspirational for a lot of platforms providers so they've got to look to a managed service provider so brett talk about the the island acquisition what green cloud is how that all fits together so we acquired island and green cloud last year and the reality is that the people at both of those companies and the technology is what drove us to making those acquisitions they were the foundational pieces to eleven eleven uh obviously the things that justin has been able to create from an automation and innovation perspective uh at the company is transforming this business in a litany of different ways as well so those two acquisitions allow us at this point to take a cloud environment on a geographic footprint not only throughout the us but globally uh have a security product that was given to us from from the green cloud acquisition of cascade and add-on connectivity to allow us to have all three platforms in one all three pillars so i like 11 11 11 is near and dear to my heart i am so where'd the name come from uh everybody asked me this question i think five times a day so uh growing up as a kid everyone in my family would always say 11 11 make a wish whenever you'd see it on the clock and uh during coven we were coming up with a new name for the business my daughter looked at the microwave said dad it's 11 11. make a wish the reality was though i had no idea why i'd been doing it for all that time and when you look up kind of the background origination derivation of the word uh it means the time of day when everything's in line um and when things are complex especially with running all the different businesses that we have aligning them so that they're working together it seemed like a perfect man when i had the big corner office at idc i had my staff meetings at 11 11. because the universe was aligned and then the other thing was nobody could forget the time so they gave him 11 minutes to be there now you'll see it all the time even when you don't want to so justin we've been talking a lot about ransomware and and not just backup but recovery my friend fred moore who you know coined the phrase backup is one thing recovery is everything and recovery time network speeds and and the like are critical especially when you're thinking cloud how are you architecting recovery for your clients maybe you could dig into that a little bit sure so it's really a multitude of things you know you mentioned ransomware seeing the ransomware landscape evolve over time especially in our business with backup and dr it's very singular you know people protecting against host nodes now we're seeing ransomware be able to get into an environment land and expand actually delete backups target backup vendors so the ransomware point i guess um trying to battle that is a multi-step process right you need to think about how data flows into the organization from a security perspective from a networking perspective you need to think about how your workloads are protected and then when you think about backups i know we're at veeam vmon now talking about veeam there's a multitude of ways to protect that data whether it's retention whether it's immutability air gapping data so while i know we focus a lot sometimes on protecting data it's really that hamburg analogy where the sum of the parts make up the protection so how do you provide services i mean you say okay you want immutability there's a there's a line item for that um you want faster or you know low rpo fast rto how does that all work for as a customer what what am i buying from you is it just a managed service we'll take care of everything platinum gold silver or is it if if you don't mind so i'm glad you asked that question because this is something that's very unique about us years ago his team actually built the ip because we were scaling at such an incredible rate globally through all our joint partners with veeam that how do we take all the intelligence that we have in his team and all of our solution architects and scale it so they actually developed a tool called catalyst and it's a pre-sales tool it's an application you download it you install it it basically takes a snapshot of your environment you start to manipulate the data what are you trying to do dave are you trying to protect that data are you backing up to us are you trying to replicate for dr purposes um you know what are you doing for production or maybe it's a migration it analyzes the network it analyzes all your infrastructure it helps the ses know immediately if we're a feasible solution based on what you are trying to do so nobody in the space is doing this and that's been a huge key to our growth because the channel community as well as the customer they're working with real data so we can get past all the garbage and get right to what's important for them for the outcome yeah that's huge who do you guys sell to is it is it more mid-sized businesses that maybe don't have the large teams is it larger enterprises who want to complement to their business is it both well i would say with the two acquisitions that we made the go-to-market sales strategies and the clientele were very different when you look at green cloud they're selling predominantly wholesale through msps and those msps are mostly selling to smbs right so we covered that smb market for the most part through our acquisition of green cloud island on the other hand was more focused on selling direct inbound through vars through the channel mid enterprise big enterprise so really those two acquisitions outside of the ip that we got from the systems we have every single go-to-market sale strategy and we're aligned from smb all the way up to the fortune 500. i heard a stat a couple months ago that that less than 50 of enterprises have a sock it blew me away and you know even small businesses need one they may not be able to afford but certainly a medium size or larger business should have some kind of sock is it does that stat jive with what you're seeing in the marketplace 100 if that's true the need for a managed service like this is just it's going to explode it is exploding yeah i mean 100 right there is zero unemployment in the cyberspace right just north america alone there's about a million or so folks in that space and right now you've got about 600 000 open wrecks just in north america right so earlier we talked about no shortage of tools right but the shortage of head count is a significant challenge big time right most importantly the people that you do have on staff they've got alert fatigue from the tools that they do have that's why you're seeing this massive insurgence in the managed security services provider lack of talent is number one challenge for csos that's what they'll tell you and there's no end in sight to that and it's you know another tool and and it's amazing because you see security companies popping up all the time billion dollar evaluations i mean lacework did a billion dollar raise and so so there's no shortage of funding now maybe that'll change you know with the market but i wanted to turn our attention to the keynotes this morning you guys got some serious love up on stage um there was a demo uh it was a pretty pretty cool demo fast recovery very very tight rpo as i recall it was i think four minutes of data loss is that right was that the right knit stat i was happy it wasn't zero data loss because there's really you know no such thing uh but so you got to feel good about that tell us about um how that all came about your relationship with with veeam who wants to take it sure i can i can take a step at it so one of the or two of the things that i'm um most excited about at least with this vmon is our team was able to work with veeam on that demo and what that demo was showing was some cdp-based features for cloud providers so we're really happy to see that and the reason why we're happy to see that is that with the veeam platform it's now given the customers the ability to do things like snapshot replication cdp replication on-prem backup cloud backup immutability air gap the list goes on and on and in our opinion having a singular software vendor that can provide all that through you know with a cloud provider on prem or not is really like the icing on the cake so for us it's very exciting to see that and then also coupled with a lot of the innovation that veeam's doing in the sas space right so again having that umbrella product that can cover all those use cases i'll tell you if you guys can get a that was a very cool demo if we can get a youtube of that that that demo i'll make sure we put it in the the show notes and uh of this video or maybe pop it into one of the blogs that we write about it um so so how you guys feel i mean this is a new chapter for you very cool with a couple of acquisitions that are now the main mainspring of your strategy so the first veeam on in a couple years so what's the vibe been like for you what's the nighttime activity the customer interaction i know you guys are running a lot of the back end demos so you're everywhere what's the what's the vibe like at veeamon and how does it feel to be back look at that one at dante as far as yeah you got a lot of experience here yeah let me loose on this one dave i'm like so excited about this right it's been it's been far too long to get face to face again and um veeam always does it right and i think that uh for years we've been back-ending like all the hands-on lab infrastructure here but forget about that i think the part that's really exciting is getting face-to-face with such a great team right we have phenomenal architects that we work with at veeam day in and day out they put up with us pushing them pushing and pushing them and together we've been able to create a lot of magic together right but i think it's you can't replace the human interaction that we've all been starving for for the last two years but the vibe's always fantastic at veeam if you're going to be around tonight i'll be looking forward to enjoying some of that veeam love with you at the after party yeah that's well famous after parties we'll see if that culture continues i have a feeling it will um brett where do you want to take 11 11. a new new phase in all of your careers you got a great crew out here it looks like i i love that you're all out and uh make some noise here people let's hear it all right let's see you this is the biggest audience we've had all week where do you want to take 11 11. i think you know if uh if you look at what we've done so far in the short six months since the acquisitions of green cloud and ireland obviously the integration is a key piece we're going to be laser focused on growing organically across those three pillars we've got to put more capital and resources into the incredible ip like i said earlier that just and his team have created on those front ends the user experience but you know we made two large acquisitions obviously mna is a is a key piece for us we're going to be diligent and we're probably going to be very aggressive on that front as well to be able to grow this business into the global leader of cloud connectivity and security and i think we've really hit a void in the industry that's been looking for this for a very long time and we want to be the first ones to be able to collaborate and combine those three into one when the when the cloud started to hit the steep part of the s-curve kind of early part of the last decade people thought oh wow these managed service providers are toast the exact opposite happened it created such a tailwind and need for consistent services and integration and managed services we've seen it all across the stack so guys wish you best of luck congratulations on the acquisitions thank you uh hope to have you back soon yeah thank you around the block all right keep it right there everybody dave vellante for the cube's coverage of veeamon 2022 we'll be right back after this short break

(pleasant music) >> We're back at Veeamon 2022. We're here at the Aria hotel in Las Vegas. This is theCube's continuous coverage. We're in day two. Welcome to the CXO session. We have CEO, CTO, CSO, chief strategy officer. Brett Diamond is the CEO, Justin Giardina is the CTO, and Dante Orsini is the chief strategy officer for 11:11 Systems recently named, I guess today, the impact cloud service provider of the year. Congratulations, guys. Welcome to theCube. Welcome back to theCube. Great to see you again. >> Thank you. >> Great. >> Likewise. >> Thanks for having us. Okay, Brett, let's start with you. Give us the overview of 11:11, your focus area, talk about the Island acquisition, what that's all about, give us the setup. >> Yeah, so we started 11:11, really, with a focus on taking the three core pillars of our business, which are cloud, connectivity, and security, bring them together into one platform, allowing a much easier way for our customers and our partners to procure those three solution sets through a single company and really focus on the three main drivers of the business, which, you know, have a litany of other services associated with them under each platform. >> Okay, so Justin, cloud connectivity and security, they all dramatically changed in March of 2020. Everybody had to go to the cloud, had to rethink the network, had to secure remote workers. So what did you see, from a CTO's perspective, what changed and how did 11:11 respond? >> Sure, so early on, when we built our cloud, even back into 2008, we really focused on enterprise grade features, one of which being very flexible in the networking. So we found early on was that we would be able to architect solutions for customers that were dipping their toe in the cloud and set ourselves apart from some of the vendors at the time. So if you fast forward from 2008 until today, we still see that as a main component for IaaS and DRaaS and the ability to start taking into some of the things Brett talked about, where customers may need a point to point circuit to offload data connectivity to us, or develop SD-WAN and multi-cloud solutions to connect to their resources in the cloud. In my opinion, it's just the natural progression of what we set out to do in 2008. And to couple that with the security, if you think about what that opens up from a security landscape, now you have multiple clouds, you have different ingress and egress points, you have different people accessing workloads in each one of these clouds, so the idea or our idea is that we can layer a comprehensive security solution over this new multi-cloud networking world and then provide visibility and manageability to our customer base. >> So what does that mean specifically for your customers? Because, I mean, we saw obviously a rapid move toward end point, cloud security, identity access. You know, people really started rethinking that as opposed to trying to just, you know, build a moat around the castle. >> Right. >> What does that mean for your customer? You take care of all that? You partner with whomever you need to partner in the ecosystem and then you provide the managed service? How does that work? >> Right. It does and that's a great analogy. You know, we have a picture of a hamburger in our office, exploded with all the components and they say, a good security policy has all the pieces and it's really synonymous with what you said. So to answer your question, yes. We have all that baked in the platform. We can offer managed services around it, but we also give the consumer the ability to access that data, whether it's a UI or API. >> So Dante, I know you talked to a lot of customers. All you do is watch the stock market go like this and like that and you say, okay, the pandemic drove all these, but when you talk to CISOs and customers, a lot of things are changing permanently. First of all, they were forced to march to digital when previously, they were like, eh, we'll get there. I mean, a lot of customers were. Let's face it. I mean, some were serious about it, but many weren't. Now, if you're not a digital business, you're out of business. What have you seen when you talk to customers in terms of the permanence of some of these changes? What are they telling you? >> Well, I think, you know, we go through this ourselves, right? The business continues to grow. You've got tons of people that are working remotely and they are going to continue to work remotely, right? As much as we'd like to offer up hybrid workspace and things like that, some folks are like, hey, I've worked it out. I'm working out great from home, right? And also, I think what Justin was saying also is, as we've seen time go on, that operating environment has gotten much more complex. You've got stuff in the data center, stuff in somebody's, you know, endpoint, you've got various different public clouds, different SAS services, right? That's why it's been phenomenal to work with Veeam because we can protect that data regardless of where it exists. But when you start to look at some of the managed security services that we're talking about, we're helping those CSOs, you know, get better visibility, better control, and take proactive action against the infrastructure when we look at threat mitigation and how to actually respond when something does happen, right? And I think that's the key because there's no shortage of great security vendors, right? But how do you tie it all together into a single solution, right, with a vendor that you can actually partner with to help secure the environment while you go focus on the things that are more strategic to the business? >> I was talking to Jim Mercer at Red Hat Summit last week. He's an IDC analyst and we did a survey, I think it was last summer, and we asked customers to your point about, there's no shortage of security tools. How do you want to buy your security? And, you know, do you want, you know, best to breed bespoke tools and you sort of put it together or do you kind of want your platform provider to do it? Now surprisingly, they said platform provider. The problem is, that's aspirational for a lot of platform providers, so they got to look to a managed service provider. So Brett, talk about the Island acquisition, what Green Cloud is, how that all fits together. >> So we acquired Island and Green Cloud last year and the reality is, the people at both of those companies and the technology is what drove us to making those acquisitions. They were the foundational pieces to 11:11. Obviously, the things that Justin has been able to create from an automation and innovation perspective at the company is transforming this business in a litany of different ways, as well. So, those two acquisitions allow us at this point to take a cloud environment on a geographic footprint, not only throughout the US but globally, have a security product that was given to us from the Green Cloud acquisition of Cascade, and add on connectivity to allow us to have all three platforms in one, all three pillars in one. >> So I like 11:11. 11:11 is near and dear to my heart. So where'd the name come from? >> Everybody asked me this question, I think, five times a day. So growing up as a kid, everyone in my family would always say 11:11 make a wish whenever you'd see it on the clock. And during COVID, we were coming up with a new name for the business. My daughter looked at the microwave, said, dad, it's 11:11, make a wish. The reality was though, I had no idea why I'd been doing it for all that time and when you look up kind of the background origination, derivation of the word, it means the time of day when everything's in line and when things are complex, especially with running all the different businesses that we have, aligning them so that they're working together, it seemed like the perfect thing >> So when I had the big corner office at IDC, I had my staff meetings at 11:11. >> Yep. >> Because the universe was aligned and then the other thing was, nobody could forget the time. So they gave me 11 minutes to be there, so they were never late. >> And now you'll see it all the time, even when you don't want to. (chuckles) >> So Justin, we've been talking a lot about ransomware and not just backup, but recovery. My friend, Fred Moore, who, you know, coined the phrase backup is one thing, recovery is everything, and recovery time, network speeds and the like are critical, especially when you're thinking cloud. How are you architecting recovery for your clients? Maybe you could dig into that a little bit. >> Sure. So it's really a multitude of things. You know, you mention ransomware. Seeing the ransomware landscape evolve over time, especially in our business with backup NDR, is very singular, you know, people protecting against host nodes. Now we're seeing ransomware be able to get into an environment, land and expand, actually delete backups, target backup vendors. So the ransomware point, I guess, trying to battle that is a multi-step process, right? You need to think about how data flows into the organization from a security perspective, from a networking perspective, you need to think about how your workloads are protected, and then when you think about backups, I know we're at Veeamon now talking about Veeam, there's a multitude of ways to protect that data, whether it's retention, whether it's immutability, air gapping data. So, while I know we focus a lot sometimes on protecting data, it's really that hamburger analogy where the sum of the parts make up the protection. >> So how do you provide services? I mean, do you say, okay, do you want immutability? There's a line item for that. You want low RPO, fast RTO? How does that all work as a customer? What am I buying from you? Is it just a managed service? We'll take care of everything, platinum, gold, silver, or is it? >> If you don't mind, so I'm glad you asked that question because this is something that's very unique about us. Years ago, his team actually built the IP because we were scaling at such an incredible rate globally through all our joint partners with Veeam that, how do we take all the intelligence that we have and his team and all of our solution architects and scale it? So they actually developed a tool called Catalyst, and it's a pre-sales tool. It's an application. You download it, you install it. It basically takes a snapshot of your environment. You start to manipulate the data. What are you trying to do, Dave? Are you trying to protect that data? Are you backing up to us? Are you trying to replicate it for DR purposes? You know, what are you doing for production, or maybe it's a migration? It analyzes the network. It analyzes all your infrastructure. It helps the SEs know immediately if we're a feasible solution based on what you are trying to do. So, nobody in the space is doing this and that's been a huge key to our growth because the channel community, as well as the customer, they're working with real data. So we can get past all the garbage, you get right to what's important for them for the outcome. >> Yeah, that's huge. Who do you guys sell to? Is it more mid-size businesses that maybe don't have the large teams? Is it larger enterprises who want to compliment to their business? Is it both? >> Well, I would say with the two acquisitions that we made to go to market sales strategies and the clientele were very different, when you look at Green Cloud, they're selling predominantly wholesale through MSPs and those MSPs are mostly selling to SMBs, right? So we covered that SMB market for the most part through our acquisition of Green Cloud. Island, on the other hand, was more focused on selling direct, inbound, through VARs through the channel, mid-enterprise, big enterprise. So really, those two acquisitions outside of the IP that we got from the systems, we have every single go to market sales strategy and we're aligned from SMB all the way up to the Fortune 500. >> I heard a stat a couple months ago that less than 50% of enterprises have a SAQ. That blew me away. And, you know, even small businesses need one. They may not be able to afford, but there's certainly a medium size or a larger business should have some kind of SAQ. Does that stat jive with what you're seeing in the marketplace? >> A hundred percent. >> If that's true, the need for a managed service like this, it's going to explode. It is exploding, I mean. >> Yeah, I mean, a hundred percent, right? There is zero unemployment in the cyberspace, right? Just North America alone, there's about a million or so folks in that space and right now you've got about 600,000 open recs just in North America, right? So earlier, we talked about no shortage of tools, right? But the shortage of headcount is a significant challenge, big time, right? Most importantly, the people that you do have on staff, they've got alert fatigue from the tools that they do have. That's why you're seeing this massive surgence in the managed security services provider. >> Lack of talent is number one challenge for CISOs. That's what they'll tell you and there's no end in sight to that. And it's, you know, another tool and it's amazing 'cause you see security companies popping up all the time. I mean, billion dollar valuations, I mean, Lacework did a billion dollar raise. And so, there's no shortage of funding. Now, maybe that'll change, you know, with the market but I wanted to turn our attention to the keynotes this morning. You guys got some serious love up on stage. There was a demo. It was a pretty cool demo, fast recovery, very tight RPO, as I recall. It was, I think, four minutes of, of data loss? Is that right? Is that the right stat? I was happy it wasn't zero data loss 'cause there's really, you know, no such thing, but so you got to feel good about that. Tell us about how that all came about, your relationship with Veeam. Who wants to take it? >> Sure, I can take a stab at it. So two of the things that I'm most excited about, at least with this Veeamon, is our team was able to work with Veeam on that demo, and what that demo was showing was some CDP based features for cloud providers. So we're really happy to see that and the reason why we're happy to see that is that with the Veeam platform, it's now given the customers the ability to do things like snapshot replication, CDP replication, on-prem backup, cloud backup, immutability air gap, the list goes on and on. And in our opinion, having a singular software vendor that can provide all that, you know, with a cloud provider on-prem or not is really like, the icing on the cake. So for us, it's very exciting to see that, and then also coupled with a lot of the innovation that's Veeam's doing in the SAS space, right? So again, having that umbrella product that can cover all those use cases. >> I'll tell you, that was a very cool demo. If you can get a YouTube of that demo, I'll make sure we put it in the show notes of this video or maybe pop it into one of the blogs that we write about it. So, how do you guys feel? I mean, this is a new chapter for you. Very cool, with a couple of acquisitions that are now the main spring of your strategy, so the first Veeamon in a couple years. So what's the vibe been like for you? What's the nighttime activity, the customer interaction? I know you guys are running a lot of the backend demos, so you're everywhere. What's the vibe like at Veeamon and how does it feel to be back? >> I'll give that one to Dante as far as the vibes, so far. >> Yeah, yeah, you got a lot of experience. >> Yeah, let me loose on this one, Dave. I'm like, so excited about this, right? It's been far too long to get face to face again and Veeam always does it right. And I think that for years, we've been back ending like, all the hands on lab infrastructure here, but forget about that. I think the part that's really exciting is getting face to face with such a great team, right? We have phenomenal architects that we work with at Veeam day in and day out. They put up with us, pushing them, pushing them, pushing them and together, we've been able to create a lot of magic together, right? But I think you can't replace the human interaction that we've all been starving for, for the last two years. But the vibe's always fantastic at Veeam. If you're going to be around tonight, I'll be looking forward to enjoying some of that Veeam love with you at the after party. >> Yeah, well, famous after parties. We'll see if that culture continues. I have a feeling it will. Brett, where do you want to take 11:11? New phase in all of your careers. You got a great crew out here, it looks like. I love that you're all out and, make some noise here, people. Let's hear it! (audience cheering) You see, this is the biggest audience we've had all week. Where do you want to take 11:11? >> I think, you know, if you look at what we've done so far in the short six months since the acquisitions of Green Cloud and Island, obviously the integration is a key piece. We're going to be laser focused on growing organically across those three pillars. We've got to put more capital and resources into the incredible IP, like I said earlier, that Justin and his team have created on those front ends, the user experience. But, you know, we made two large acquisitions, obviously M and A is a key piece for us. We're going to be diligent and we're probably going to be very aggressive on that front as well, to be able to grow this business into the global leader of cloud connectivity and security. And I think we've really hit a void in the industry that's been looking for this for a very long time and we want to be the first ones to be able to collaborate and combine those three into one. >> When the cloud started to hit the steep part of the S-curve, kind of early part of last decade, people thought, oh wow, these managed service providers are toast. The exact opposite happened. It created such a tailwind and need for consistent services and integration and managed services. We've seen it all across the stacks. So guys, wish you best of luck. Congratulations on the acquisitions, >> Thank you. >> And hope to have you back soon. >> Absolutely, thanks for having us. >> All right, keep it right there everybody. Dave Vellante for theCube's coverage of Veeamon 2022. We'll be right back after this short break. (pleasant music)

>> Announcer: Live from Chicago, Illinois, it's theCUBE! Covering VeeamON 2018. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to Day Two of VeeamON 2018 in Chicago. My name is Dave Vellante, and I'm here with Stu Miniman. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. Dante Orsini is here. He's the Senior Vice President of Biz Dev at iland. CUBE alum. Good friend of theCUBE. Great to see you again. >> Great to see ya. >> Thanks for coming on. >> Yeah, thanks for having me. >> What's happening with iland these days, in the world of cloud service providers? >> Well Dave, it's been insane for us. Obviously Veeam's a huge partner of ours. We've been working together for what, seven years now I think. And it's just amazing to see the growth of this company. Right? We've integrated Veeam -- our relationship. We started off basically providing managed backup many, many moons ago. But six years ago we started to build our own platform, on top of Veeam, on top of Cisco, on top of HPE. Customers really wanted to see more control. They wanted greater levels of security. They really wanted a true enterprise cloud. To do that we had to enhance the VMware stack. We had chose to take Veeam and integrate them via their API. Today if somebody deploys anything in the world with iland, it's automatically backed up by Veeam. If you fast forward a bit, as you see what Veeam's done to innovate with cloud and multi cloud, they've really helped build our business. >> Dante, if you go and look back before the whole cloud wave, the typical service provider. They would have one of everything. You'd walk down the aisles and there'd be whatever it was. An EMC box. A digital box. Whatever it was. Did virtualization change that? Were you able to consolidate? Create a platform. Create a simpler environment to manage. Or is there still a lot of bespoke infrastructure lying around? >> Yeah, that's a great question. For us, I'd love to tell you we hit it right the first time twelve years ago. But no. Just like you said. There's all sorts of different technologies right? But I think what we've done is we quickly standardized. We leverage Cisco UCS from a compute perspective. We leverage some of their storage platforms for the things that we do with Veeam Cloud Connect Backup. We actually help them drive the validation of that product before it came to market. We operate at scale with them. Same thing with Veeam. We're their the largest cloud provider in the world right now. As far as leveraging Veeam technologies. In addition to that on the storage front, we also because of the demands of the environment, we really want to deliver a secure cloud service. Encryption is table stakes, and has been for years. HPE Nimble plays a critical role for us there. That's really our stack. Cisco from a network and a compute perspective, VMware with the hypervisor, and HPE from a storage perspective. >> It's sounds like you've taken some very cost effective platforms. Nimble, Veeam, etc. And then architected an enterprise class solution. You guys are adding value around that as an integrator and obviously a service provider. >> Yup, correct. And I think the market is demanding more and more from a cloud provider. People want true transparency. They want control over the infrastructure. For us it's like, how can we develop an API? So we can make this platform extensible. And then still work with the customers that are struggling with the promise of cloud. And Stu, you see this all the time, right? >> Yeah, and Dante, one of the things we're discussing here is it's a very hybrid world. As Veeam said, customers are doing lots of SAAS. They're using service providers. They have their own data centers. They're using a few public clouds. One of the things I've been watching real closely is companies like iland and the other cloud service providers Amazon and Microsoft aren't the enemy anymore. It's, well we actually have to partner with them on some services. We do some things locally. Maybe give us your viewpoint on how that's changed in the last couple of years. >> Yeah, great question. I would tell you that we're not quite there yet, Stu. From my perspective. You guys know, we're known best for providing disaster recovery as a service. That's where we've made a name in the space. But the irony is we've really focused on building this cloud infrastructure. So an I as platform. And ironically that's the majority of our revenue. When we look at public, clearly it is a hybrid world. Where we spend a lot of time, is investing in how can we highly automate the integration? Because we know that people are going to have workloads everywhere. The idea is, think about it from a recovery perspective. If I'm protecting your traditional workloads. And you've got a dev team that's using various different services that are proprietary to a public cloud, that stuff's got to talk to each other in a true resiliency capacity. We wanted to make sure that people could actually highly automate and orchestrate a failover to us, a test to us. But also integrate the connectivity portion of that. Right? Making sure that all these things can talk together is important. You understand as well as I do, as these cloud architectures change, become more modern, and they're more service driven. The traditional, I'm going to move from point A to point B is no longer in play. It's how can I have more diversity amongst my vendor base? If I'm using containers. You've got a globally distributed architecture. If I can deploy some of that with iland, and some of that maybe using Kubernetes, that gives me diversity for recovery. >> Dante, you've hit one of the key things we've been as an industry struggling with. That pace of change is just so rapid. How do you internally deal with that pace of change? As to I architected something today, and tomorrow there's something new. Tell us what you're hearing from your customers as to how they make their decisions and sort through this constantly changing Rubrik? >> Well it's definitely insane. We see all sorts of various different use cases, depending on the industry. And that pressure to innovate at the speed of light is, really people struggle with it. I think from our perspective, there's a couple things that we're doing. One, we actually wrote our own assessment application. We call it iland Catalyst. This was really designed to help both our customers as well as our partners. Cause we go to market through a lot of partners as well, to help streamline this pre-sales process for a customer. Again, we focus squarely on the VMware infrastructure stack. Being able to pull an inventory of what somebody has in their environment. And then go through and select resource pools and VM's, for whatever the purpose. Whether they're looking to work and shift workloads. Or whether they're looking to protect them from a backup or DR perspective, we're able to mitigate all the challenges associated with that. To your point. As people are looking at cloud, it's like okay. Is this cloud thing real? And how's it apply to my business? What can I really do with this? And by the way, I got to deal with my budget also. What's this stuff cost? We've got some really smart people. But you can't scale our smartest people globally. We wanted to really drive that into an application. It's really helped get people to outcomes much quicker. So do it right first. >> Dante, if you reverse back a few years ago, VMware was calling Amazon a book seller. Amazon was calling guys like VMware the old guard. The old way. They kissed and hugged last year. You must've loved that first of all. Because it was like, great, VMware specialist. We'll just drive truck through that opportunity, because we get service provision, cloud, VMware stack, boom. Now fast forward. They've got this little kumbaya thing going on. How do you now differentiate from that? >> Yeah, that's a great question. First of all, VMware, obviously a very strategic partner. I think they've got a long road ahead of them. On some of the things that they're doing. I think the promise of where they're going is great. But I still think there's a lot of folks that struggle with the idea. Think about co-mingling my traditional workloads. And then trying to integrate cloud native services on top of it. I think it's a tall order. We'll see where it goes. We're keeping a close eye on it. But in the interim for us, we continue to see folks that are saying, look I want to get out of the data center business. I've built my data center on VMware. I need to have much greater levels of control and visibility. And you need to make this easy on me. From that perspective, we've been able to do really, really well. We work with a lot of service providers that are looking for that level of a consultative approach. But also want to realize the benefits of a cloud. The point being is, I want a great cloud but it needs to be enterprise class. And I also need to know that I might need help architecting that migration. >> Well that's the key, right? You're not going to get that from an Amazon. They're not going to come into your shop. They're not going to hold your hand through it. They're not going to help you build the architecture route. And help you manage it on an ongoing basis. >> Dante, it's May 2018, so I'd be remiss if I didn't ask about GDPR. >> Hey Stu, I love you man! This is great. You guys know we operate globally, and have for over a decade. GDPR we were way out in front of this. I'm not sure if you follow, The BSI just came out with a new standard. 10012, I believe. I think our Compliance and DPO Officer would be pretty proud of me for remembering that one. >> Dave: I'm proud of ya. >> It's tailor made for GDPR. We've been pre-certified, one of four companies that did it. We do a ton in the security side and the compliance side. And I know they go hand in hand. We went through a global audit last year. On the back of some of the ISO work we do with the CSA, the Cloud Security Alliance. And actually came out with a gold star certification. Sounds juvenile, right? A gold star, woo hoo! But it's a big deal. Only iland and Microsoft have actually achieved that level of certification. Yeah. On the compliance side we're way out in front of GDPR. We're doing a lot from a thought leadership perspective in educating both the partners and the marketplace. I think it's going to see what happens with Brexit also. I think you'll see the rest of the world kind of find their way to their own type of regulation. >> What do all those acronyms mean for your customers in terms of GDPR compliance? How does that turn into value for them, and make their life easier? Can you explain? >> I think right now the whole market's been in my opinion has been ill prepared for this. You see a lot of people scrambling. Being able to identify what data is going to fall under that regulation. How you treat the data. How you're able to account for the data. And also destroy the data. And validate that. Is frankly I see some of the biggest sweeping change in marketing. I see marketing people really scrambling. Because they have to make sure that they double-opt in. Cause the fines for breaching this are unbelievable. I think you're going to see the regulators make an example out of certain people. >> No doubt. >> Quickly. >> There's going to be some examples. They're going to go after the guys with deep pockets first. But the fines are... What are the fines? Four, is it 10% of the turnover? No, 4% of turnover. >> 4% of your previous year's turnover. >> Which is insane. >> Yep, yep. >> That's going to hurt. >> Or something like 20 million pounds, something like that. >> Which ever is greater. >> Which ever is greater. Yes! Yes, exactly. Yup. >> It's pretty onerous. Dante, VeeamON 2018, we'll give you closing thoughts. >> Fantastic event, right. Just super appreciative for our relationship with Veeam. They've been behind us. They've been behind this whole cloud provider community. I mean guys, you know this. Raat Mere and team had the ability to go take this stuff to a public cloud many moons ago. They chose to enable a managed cloud provider market first. We are very grateful for that. >> Awesome. Hey thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. Great to see you. >> My pleasure. >> As always. >> Yup, go Yankees! >> Oh whoa, time out. >> Go Yankees. >> While we're on the topic. Listen, you can't beat the Red Sox in April. Okay, you know that, right? >> Yeah, here we go. >> So it's going to be interesting to see. I mean I have predicted the Yankees take the east, and they go to the World Series. But you got to be excited as a Yankees fan. >> Could be a good year. >> I've always liked Brian Cashman. I think he's one of the best GM's in the business. Watch his moves at the trading deadline. He's going to beef up the bullpen. I hope the Sox can hang tough with him because anything can happen. >> It's true, anything can happen. >> Hey, great to see ya. >> Great to see you guys, thank you. >> Go Sox. >> Dig it. >> Keep it right there everybody. We'll be back with our next guest right after this short break.

okay we're back here at Dell world 2012 this is an austin texas dell second year this is SiliconANGLE calms the cube our flagship program about the events extracted suit from the noise day to have been day one yesterday all day interviews getting all the action digging deep into del exciting transformation for Dell I would see not standing still Michael Dell's on the cube yesterday talking with us candidly about his long-term vision and investing in the future and that we're going to explore all that today about this transmissions new modern era you know we think we were the first to kind of report on that on SiliconANGLE Wikibon and it's here it's happening it's building out its transformation in a whole new way changing IT changing the world so it's exciting I'm John furry the founders SiliconANGLE come and join my co-host I'm Dave vellante Wikibon or go there check out all the free research and we just laid out some stuff on software lead infrastructure just in analysis today just hit the site on dell's shift from component and device manufacturer to really software lead and services so check that out we're here with Dante Orsini who was a senior vice president of Island rock and cloud maker and cloud provider Yankee fan they say that rivère is going to be ready for opening day which is bad news for us Red Sox fans but Dante welcome back to the cube thank you can you see you again yeah are you a Jets fan actually Giants fans right okay well that's good yeah but I live in Dallas picture right nice yeah okay so I lands a winner man you guys are doing great infrastructure as a service and been growing and really doing well you got a great partnership with dell so give us an update yeah so lots of exciting stuff going on I mean you know we've really the last couple years we focus more on self-service infrastructure we've done a lot of work with VMware you mentioned software-defined data center you know we've done a lot of work there as well it's interesting you know today we talked about on stage about dell's active system and for a company like island you know we've always been always been very customer focused but we've really led a lot of different innovation right so to stay on that forefront and to continue to listen to customers and take you there needs and orchestrate that into a solution and delivered as a service you know you start to do that at scale gets complex right so we noticed that we're growing really rapidly but we could be doing a lot better job in certain areas and Dells really helped us out there because if you could imagine growing across seven datacenters North America and Europe we've got a lot of engineering talent but to scale we'd really stretch that talent and we don't want these guys you know living in the data center planning these do data center deployments in scaling them out so you know moving to more of a converged infrastructure is a big I mean we had Kim Stephenson on just before your segment she's a CIO at Intel she's awesome she's in a dynamic she's wonderful but she's in jail they push the envelope and I asked her one question you know this new modern era what are the table stakes the cios have a lot of legacy they were messages don't protect the legacy but protect the future which is a great message and that really is legit in my mind but you got a deal to legacy and she said you put a freeze on it and then go invent the new but I asked her what are the table stakes she said God a cloud is definitely real you've got to be this to share with us let's expand on that what do you think that means what does table stakes mean being plowed ready and she was saying here last year my okay cloud but this year must have you got to have that ready yeah no great point I mean we've seen it I mean we've been doing this since 2007 right so in the beginning it was follow us right here's the direction and now there's this big sediment change last 18 months I mean let's face it CIOs in the past very focused on as you said you know the core infrastructure and not really is open to cloud but in last 18 months that's changed dramatically so we're seeing a lot of companies that are actually taking a hard look at their actual infrastructure internally and also looking for ways that they can augment that you know in a lot of this is being driven from the other side of the house right let's face it i t is really focused on making sure that you can you maintain availability and maintain security but that doesn't always fair well for people that are application you know driven right so people are driven by raja that have to really get new things to market our timeline driven and we've seen that there's been some disparity between those teams those ones are really adopting cloud right because if they have to wait on traditional procurement 19 provisioning and compliance everything else you know sometimes it gets burdensome so at some point someone says you know what I'm going to look outside the organization that creates a real challenge for internal I team so with VMware Adele we've been able to basically bring these two sides together to make sure that as organizations continually focused internally to deliver more of a self-service model for themselves that they're still going to need some way to augment that infrastructure and to get new things to market and oftentimes that's we're going to look outside so the beginning of larger mid-market enterprise companies they're really looking at us to be able to provide excess capacity for things like development testing also we see a huge opportunity with field labs frankly because a lot of companies that are taking software and applications to market they not only need to develop the software test the software but they need to be able to train their internal folks their external partners and to be able to take something that's para virtualized if you will right so imagine nesting VMware so mad you've got this beat cloud front end and rather than just deploying you know regular OS templates you start climbing the stack and say okay what if we wanted to demonstrate you a dynamic lab environment that was running ESX for instance so what if we brought up in esxi 5 cluster and we also had active directory and we integrated something like VMware views we could present a desktop and then if we had a virtual storage array we can encapsulate the whole thing now rather than just bringing up an OS template now I just execute this one V app that has all these components and that's wearing virtually on top of their talk about what that means I mean let's just break that down and you just know when deep there for a minute Wendy yeah yes all right Rancic no no don't be sorry first of all don't be sorry that's the key and we love that so yeah this is this is like tech stop for us so so but let's translate that into what that means our value sure in the old way what was the picture what did that picture look like you know what was a mess involved in that and because that is real agility yep different service levels behind that is better value but to do all that in the old way just pray down what would have come in Dale yep great great question so imagine if you had to support an event like this and you have hands-on labs right think of the amount of infrastructure that has to be brought to site right and you're actually in the old ways you really didn't have a mechanism to make that self-service it was a lot of guys working really hard not just on the infrastructure stack but actually how are they going to present this stuff right and you see people get creative you know try to basically create a whole bottle logins and kind of make it round robin the we're okay I know it got say five labs I want to know train people on but I'm going to be able to support maybe ten of those at a time so I have a standard naming convention and then you know people come in and what if they want to you know do something else it and see the problem is you plan for okay we think that these five labs are going to be fantastic and what happens is someone comes out with something Twitter goes crazy right and everyone focuses on that one lab they want to go after right and there's only so many labs to go around well in in this type of environment first of all you don't have the ship nique it right all this stuff can be done virtually and you can instantiate an entire lab you can create multiple labs with different subjects and just instantiate as you need them right Kalamazoo nita as you want to you know expire them so we're seeing that that's also happening more and not just a huge event like this but think of software companies that want to be able to touch a labor issue too and it's a hassle so ops labor build it up tear it down or build it up and deal with the power is shoots right well right it's like yeah I mean basically it's a night so on a scale of one to ten ten being a total hassle what is your way change what so how would you rate the scorecard it's it's by polar opposite right to imagine creating something one time and be able to instantiate it over and over not have to deal with shipping anything right and the whole thing being self service you know those types of use cases go beyond like I said just a big event I mean think about go-to-market strategy right so what if I had the ability to actually take my sales force and make sure they had an account so they can engage their customers in a different way so one core is that we've identified here at SiliconANGLE is deep is the moving workloads across clouds yep agnostic hypervisors and that kind of data layer as well how does that all fit into that your your equation you know that's a great question because we are Dave wants to get a question yeah sorry good interview so there's there's a couple things that we're seeing there we've seen companies that you know have actually started because someone in a division found it easier to go to a public cloud company and start to develop something if they develop that in a private environment or more of a proprietary environment by the time I T realizes what's going on they have a mess because it's hard to move right so we've seen that there's organizations that are starting to spawn whether they're delivering themselves as a software as a service type play or whether you know they're actually brute force labor on the backend that are trying to create this you know agnostic area so you can take something from you know am i and move it into ESX or be plowed right and everything in between and you know we think that there's a great opportunity there but at the end of the day you know it really depends on the use case right I mean we see people that are using public cloud infrastructures that if they're looking to sketch no test large-scale environments thousands of virtual machines the variance is way too great because fundamentally the hypervisor does not guarantee performance so you know we tend to work in the mid-market enterprise space with companies that have you know rich VMware based investments and they want to have guaranteed performance but they also want across that chasm to self-service and make things really easy consume okay so you're going after homogeneity that's a fundamental strategy I mean Amazon's got homogeneity that works in that regard a lot of things about Amazon work for the enterprise but right so tell me today I'm hearing homogeneity the other thing I want to ask you is hybrid cloud yeah a lot of people define that a lot of different ways i want to narrow the definition and see if you see any indication that this is happening specifically federating the application very good question I'm seeing very little that so far have not to say that it's not out there right and if you see people are trying to get there but you know we're seeing you really the opportunity here and just to clarify you're talkin bout someone has an application they want to dynamically burst that leverage excess capacity yeah and we're not really seeing a lot of it yet right as opposed to I got some private cloud stuff when I got some apps in the public cloud and that's cool and I've selected those may have looked in my application portfolio and the business value and the risks and I put some in the public and some of the privates a lot of people doing that yeah yeah everybody's doing that well true but i think that the other thing that there's a real opportunity with right now is again going back to the OBM words vision on this we're seeing adoption here because organizations have an investment they have it necessarily and they're starting to adopt nuvid cloud more and more internally right but initially we saw this as an opportunity to help to bridge that gap between the actual infrastructure operations teams and you know the development and application centric teams that needed access the infrastructure so if you think about their strategy how they're bundling all these schemes together now they're making it easier for these companies to consume their software so what we find is that the internal teams are saying okay great we're going to move to five dot one and their focus on that traditional upgrade process but meanwhile they realize that now they have things like vCloud director where they can deliver their own you know internal private cloud that's self-service but it takes time to get there so in the interim they have the ability to look at you know this beat cloud community i land and our peers in this space and they can start to introduce self service to the teams that need it most now the key is through some of these technologies like vcloud connector where we're seeing that the business side say okay great my admins that live and die in administration all day long they have this ability to manage yo through the same pane of glass virtualcenter their local infrastructure as well as the cloud-based infrastructure so that helps this implementation process because we don't have to retrain behavior right so I talked to IT directors and CIOs that's big for them now the other side is that they can have complete control over this this infrastructure and through role-based access control they can basically you know create these different you know applications if you will or catalogs of applications and assign them and track them by virtual data center so it's helping them get there while their work focus on it internally we provide that bridge that allows them to get there today so that's some very good examples in proof points actually that that island is providing upping upping the messaging to sort of cloud in general and the benefits the value proposition that you and John were talking about a lot of companies that you know claim their cloud cloud providers infrastructure as a service specifically use the same messaging now you guys founded in 2007 came out of the shoot so you're new you had this kind of clean sheet of paper advantage yep I want you to talk about specifically how you're different from that crowd you know managed hosting guys that are saying hey we're cloud now too or you know pretty much everybody's got to be cloud so how are you different specifically you have very good questions so we originally started 1995 actually was really focused on colocation and IP services so 2007 we saw the time was right and you know we did a lot of due diligence and we looked at our customer base and we listened to them and that's why we chose to partner with you know expand our relationship with Dell but also partnered with VMware on this so we came to market with a managed virtualization platform was it people weren't throwing cloud around in 2007 right right it wasn't until the last few years that we were moving to more of a self-service model that we were comfortable saying cloud but I think the difference here is that we've had such a long standing relationship in this space not only with our partners but with our customers to understand what the use cases aren't what the needs are to be able to wrap the technology around those needs you know we're calling this customer driven innovation basically so we're going beyond just hey I want to you know get access to a quick server and bring it up you know because our use cases in the beginning we're extremely calm we were managing 80 different data centers across North America and Europe we had people that said look I need access to enterprise infrastructure but I've got compliance requirements where I need to integrate certain types of network I want to do a direct connection to you for compliance and security purposes so we started off the bat not trying to make a simple you know easy self-service front end we focused on what's the requirement and let's wrap a solution around it so that led us down this path of being able to provide a managed infrastructure for those that needed managed but also to provide more of an enterprise-class self-service environment now where I see our areas that we actually differentiate as we've done a tremendous amount of business in disaster recovery a lot of that is because in 2008 you know the financial markets took a nosedive write capital budgets dried up and we went to market not only with VMware and down but other partners and while they were helping their customers virtualize more and more of their infrastructure a lot of those companies realize there were better ways of protecting it is if you go back that far you see a lot of people using your traditional you know either multi-site or the relying on a traditional dr provider where they're consigning physical space right so to be able to work with these customers and define very fluid and dynamic RTO and RPO objectives we've wrapped a lot of unique IP around that to be able to deliver these solutions so that's kind of our launching point into these other areas so I mentioned a little bit about what we're doing from a lab perspective you know that originally started off and collaborating with VMware in del matter of fact you know over a year ago Dell was looking to actually train you know they're one of their divisions internally at an internal solution summit and our CTO got together with some folks at Dell and we were actually architecting this lab for our own purpose and to drive better collaboration with VMware out in the field and ultimately they ended up leveraging that lab environment and we're product heisting that today so pretty interesting stuff no I want to ask you about Amazon janta yes they're getting very aggressive we see them at all these shows now there in order to open world and they had a big presence of course they have the big conference reinvent a couple weeks ago I often criticized Amazon about their SLA s but they said at the at the reinvent conference one of their executives that we've never lost a deal because of SLA s which because I laugh at got kidding me right but nonetheless amazon is a force even though the glacier announcement got a lot of attention they are really you know going after the enterprise so how do you compete with Amazon how do you differentiate obviously SLA s is one loves you talk about that and other factors for their security compliance audits you know location of data talk about Amazon its presence and how you and your ecosystem and partners are competing yeah very very question so you know any time we spoke about amazon i love amazon by the way they're doing a lot of stuff to drive more and more adoption in our space but fundamentally different platforms right so anytime we've worked with you know customers that have had experience with an amazon or some other you know type of hypervisors it's not vmware based yet we often see that there's a lot of things we start peeling back the onion you know it's being able to provide guaranteed performance and high availability that's a fundamental difference right out of the gate and that's one of the reasons why we have such stringent SLA that's why we work with Cubs murray's that have to deal with compliance you know in the vial farm of space the healthcare space financial services you know so the other thing that we see here is that you know amazon does a great job of you know entertaining that side of the business but what we found is that we have customers that have thousands of instances in amazon and one of the challenges they see is that when they go through large scale scale testing environments the variance and performance is too great so the other the other side of this you know imagine you'll try to shoot for a two percent variance on the same workload but you have thousands of them right but imagine that variance being somewhere between eight and fifteen percent depending on what's going on with capacity we're on the opposite of that spectrum you know our customers that work with us in the dev testing arena they need to know that when we provide resources that they are actually going to perform you know the same every single time so totally different options of the spectrum and a lot of people think that you know working in an enterprise-class cloud of a structure is going to be more costly than an Amazon I got to tell you our price seems really aggressive so we've never lost a deal on price to Amazon so the other side is SLA so you touched on that and it's in our business it's critical you know we've got to be able to provide transparency but also we also have to be able to provide people a different type of escalated focuses not just non availability but performance and that's where we're differentiating can you talk about what you look for in partners in jail you know Dell obviously a part never tell you Dell's got its own cloud offerings you know so how do you feel about that what do you look for in partners and you know why Dell yeah great question so Dells always been there for us right so we we were you know leveraging down a prior to moving into this whole you know cloud arena prior to 2007 they've really taken an active interest in our organization to help us grow I mean today we announced a joint offering where Dells storage customers have the ability to actually replicate as a service to I'll and this is going to be sold by dell and this is just a result of working with him out in the field over the last couple years and they wanted a simple way to really provide a secure form of backup and recovery for their customers so we're starting with this extensible platform we've done this for years and right now we're starting with equal logic but there's all sorts of other technologies that snap right in there right so it's been a very unique relationship for us and when they did announce that they were going to cloud it wasn't surprised I mean we knew this was coming right so there's a huge market here and we've actually had a lot of cooperation if you will write together with Dell so I think together we continue to collaborate we're going to always find other way areas that we can innovate and drive unique solutions to market what do you make it the OpenStack movement you know I think openstax unique our CTO is got a lot of good friends that you know have worked on that these good friends with you know Richard from from rackspace and you know I look what Rackspace is doing as I think it's it's great you know again great for the industry i really don't run into them a lot out out in the marketplace but um you know I think I've got a lot of admiration for what they're doing yeah well we've written it's the OpenStack not-ready-for-prime-time but now everybody's hopping on the bandwagon so I'm Steve just joined AMC just joined right right so OpenStack is becoming that developer framework I think it's gonna be you know move from being a marketing gimmick gave too much more hey let's consolidate DevOps and let's get this developer community wrapped around some real meat on the bone relative to you know sdn hace drives that drives that agenda aggressively as does you know some of the cloud trend so awesome stuff yeah good all right on say we listen to how it's a great guest really appreciate you coming on awesome seeing you again and welcome back anytime okay thanks Dave this is the cube our flagship programming right I tracked the signal from the noise we right back with our next guest after this short break

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is "Breaking Analysis" with Dave Vellante. >> Recent conversations with IT decision makers show a stark contrast between exiting 2023 versus the mindset when we were leaving 2022. CIOs are generally funding new initiatives by pushing off or cutting lower priority items, while security efforts are still being funded. Those that enable business initiatives that generate revenue or taking priority over cleaning up legacy technical debt. The bottom line is, for the moment, at least, the mindset is not cut everything, rather, it's put a pause on cleaning up legacy hairballs and fund monetization. Hello, and welcome to this week's Wikibon Cube Insights powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis, we tap recent discussions from two primary sources, year-end ETR roundtables with IT decision makers, and CUBE conversations with data, cloud, and IT architecture practitioners. The sources of data for this breaking analysis come from the following areas. Eric Bradley's recent ETR year end panel featured a financial services DevOps and SRE manager, a CSO in a large hospitality firm, a director of IT for a big tech company, the head of IT infrastructure for a financial firm, and a CTO for global travel enterprise, and for our upcoming Supercloud2 conference on January 17th, which you can register free by the way, at supercloud.world, we've had CUBE conversations with data and cloud practitioners, specifically, heads of data in retail and financial services, a cloud architect and a biotech firm, the director of cloud and data at a large media firm, and the director of engineering at a financial services company. Now we've curated commentary from these sources and now we share them with you today as anecdotal evidence supporting what we've been reporting on in the marketplace for these last couple of quarters. On this program, we've likened the economy to the slingshot effect when you're driving, when you're cruising along at full speed on the highway, and suddenly you see red brake lights up ahead, so, you tap your own brakes and then you speed up again, and traffic is moving along at full speed, so, you think nothing of it, and then, all of a sudden, the same thing happens. You slow down to a crawl and you start wondering, "What the heck is happening?" And you become a lot more cautious about the rate of acceleration when you start moving again. Well, that's the trend in IT spend right now. Back in June, we reported that despite the macro headwinds, CIOs were still expecting 6% to 7% spending growth for 2022. Now that was down from 8%, which we reported at the beginning of 2022. That was before Ukraine, and Fed tightening, but given those two factors, you know that that seemed pretty robust, but throughout the fall, we began reporting consistently declining expectations where CIOs are now saying Q4 will come in at around 3% growth relative to last year, and they're expecting, or should we say hoping that it pops back up in 2023 to 4% to 5%. The recent ETR panelists, when they heard this, are saying based on their businesses and discussions with their peers, they could see low single digit growth for 2023, so, 1%, 2%, 3%, so, this sort of slingshotting, or sometimes we call it a seesaw economy, has caught everyone off guard. Amazon is a good example of this, and there are others, but Amazon entered the pandemic with around 800,000 employees. It doubled that workforce during the pandemic. Now, right before Thanksgiving in 2022, Amazon announced that it was laying off 10,000 employees, and, Jassy, the CEO of Amazon, just last week announced that number is now going to grow to 18,000. Now look, this is a rounding error at Amazon from a headcount standpoint and their headcount remains far above 2019 levels. Its stock price, however, does not and it's back down to 2019 levels. The point is that visibility is very poor right now and it's reflected in that uncertainty. We've seen a lot of layoffs, obviously, the stock market's choppy, et cetera. Now importantly, not everything is on hold, and this downturn is different from previous tech pullbacks in that the speed at which new initiatives can be rolled out is much greater thanks to the cloud, and if you can show a fast return, you're going to get funding. Organizations are pausing on the cleanup of technical debt, unless it's driving fast business value. They're holding off on modernization projects. Those business enablement initiatives are still getting funded. CIOs are finding the money by consolidating redundant vendors, and they're stealing from other pockets of budget, so, it's not surprising that cybersecurity remains the number one technology priority in 2023. We've been reporting that for quite some time now. It's specifically cloud, cloud native security container and API security. That's where all the action is, because there's still holes to plug from that forced march to digital that occurred during COVID. Cloud migration, kind of showing here on number two on this chart, still a high priority, while optimizing cloud spend is definitely a strategy that organizations are taking to cut costs. It's behind consolidating redundant vendors by a long shot. There's very little evidence that cloud repatriation, i.e., moving workloads back on prem is a major cost cutting trend. The data just doesn't show it. What is a trend is getting more real time with analytics, so, companies can do faster and more accurate customer targeting, and they're really prioritizing that, obviously, in this down economy. Real time, we sometimes lose it, what's real time? Real time, we sometimes define as before you lose the customer. Now in the hiring front, customers tell us they're still having a hard time finding qualified site reliability engineers, SREs, Kubernetes expertise, and deep analytics pros. These job markets remain very tight. Let's stay with security for just a moment. We said many times that, prior to COVID, zero trust was this undefined buzzword, and the joke, of course, is, if you ask three people, "What is zero trust?" You're going to get three different answers, but the truth is that virtually every security company that was resisting taking a position on zero trust in an attempt to avoid... They didn't want to get caught up in the buzzword vortex, but they're now really being forced to go there by CISOs, so, there are some good quotes here on cyber that we want to share that came out of the recent conversations that we cited up front. The first one, "Zero trust is the highest ROI, because it enables business transformation." In other words, if I can have good security, I can move fast, it's not a blocker anymore. Second quote here, "ZTA," zero trust architecture, "Is more than securing the perimeter. It encompasses strong authentication and multiple identity layers. It requires taking a software approach to security instead of a hardware focus." The next one, "I'd love to have a security data lake that I could apply to asset management, vulnerability management, incident management, incident response, and all aspects for my security team. I see huge promise in that space," and the last one, I see NLP, natural language processing, as the foundation for email security, so, instead of searching for IP addresses, you can now read emails at light speed and identify phishing threats, so, look at, this is a small snapshot of the mindset around security, but I'll add, when you talk to the likes of CrowdStrike, and Zscaler, and Okta, and Palo Alto Networks, and many other security firms, they're listening to these narratives around zero trust. I'm confident they're working hard on skating to this puck, if you will. A good example is this idea of a security data lake and using analytics to improve security. We're hearing a lot about that. We're hearing architectures, there's acquisitions in that regard, and so, that's becoming real, and there are many other examples, because data is at the heart of digital business. This is the next area that we want to talk about. It's obvious that data, as a topic, gets a lot of mind share amongst practitioners, but getting data right is still really hard. It's a challenge for most organizations to get ROI and expected return out of data. Most companies still put data at the periphery of their businesses. It's not at the core. Data lives within silos or different business units, different clouds, it's on-prem, and increasingly it's at the edge, and it seems like the problem is getting worse before it gets better, so, here are some instructive comments from our recent conversations. The first one, "We're publishing events onto Kafka, having those events be processed by Dataproc." Dataproc is a Google managed service to run Hadoop, and Spark, and Flank, and Presto, and a bunch of other open source tools. We're putting them into the appropriate storage models within Google, and then normalize the data into BigQuery, and only then can you take advantage of tools like ThoughtSpot, so, here's a company like ThoughtSpot, and they're all about simplifying data, democratizing data, but to get there, you have to go through some pretty complex processes, so, this is a good example. All right, another comment. "In order to use Google's AI tools, we have to put the data into BigQuery. They haven't integrated in the way AWS and Snowflake have with SageMaker. Moving the data is too expensive, time consuming, and risky," so, I'll just say this, sharing data is a killer super cloud use case, and firms like Snowflake are on top of it, but it's still not pretty across clouds, and Google's posture seems to be, "We're going to let our database product competitiveness drive the strategy first, and the ecosystem is going to take a backseat." Now, in a way, I get it, owning the database is critical, and Google doesn't want to capitulate on that front. Look, BigQuery is really good and competitive, but you can't help but roll your eyes when a CEO stands up, and look, I'm not calling out Thomas Kurian, every CEO does this, and talks about how important their customers are, and they'll do whatever is right by the customer, so, look, I'm telling you, I'm rolling my eyes on that. Now let me also comment, AWS has figured this out. They're killing it in database. If you take Redshift for example, it's still growing, as is Aurora, really fast growing services and other data stores, but AWS realizes it can make more money in the long-term partnering with the Snowflakes and Databricks of the world, and other ecosystem vendors versus sub optimizing their relationships with partners and customers in order to sell more of their own homegrown tools. I get it. It's hard not to feature your own product. IBM chose OS/2 over Windows, and tried for years to popularize it. It failed. Lotus, go back way back to Lotus 1, 2, and 3, they refused to run on Windows when it first came out. They were running on DEC VAX. Many of you young people in the United States have never even heard of DEC VAX. IBM wanted to run every everything only in its cloud, the same with Oracle, originally. VMware, as you might recall, tried to build its own cloud, but, eventually, when the market speaks and reveals what seems to be obvious to analysts, years before, the vendors come around, they face reality, and they stop wasting money, fighting a losing battle. "The trend is your friend," as the saying goes. All right, last pull quote on data, "The hardest part is transformations, moving traditional Informatica, Teradata, or Oracle infrastructure to something more modern and real time, and that's why people still run apps in COBOL. In IT, we rarely get rid of stuff, rather we add on another coat of paint until the wood rots out or the roof is going to cave in. All right, the last key finding we want to highlight is going to bring us back to the cloud repatriation myth. Followers of this program know it's a real sore spot with us. We've heard the stories about repatriation, we've read the thoughtful articles from VCs on the subject, we've been whispered to by vendors that you should investigate this trend. It's really happening, but the data simply doesn't support it. Here's the question that was posed to these practitioners. If you had unlimited budget and the economy miraculously flipped, what initiatives would you tackle first? Where would you really lean into? The first answer, "I'd rip out legacy on-prem infrastructure and move to the cloud even faster," so, the thing here is, look, maybe renting infrastructure is more expensive than owning, maybe, but if I can optimize my rental with better utilization, turn off compute, use things like serverless, get on a steeper and higher performance over time, and lower cost Silicon curve with things like Graviton, tap best of breed tools in AI, and other areas that make my business more competitive. Move faster, fail faster, experiment more quickly, and cheaply, what's that worth? Even the most hard-o CFOs understand the business benefits far outweigh the possible added cost per gigabyte, and, again, I stress "possible." Okay, other interesting comments from practitioners. "I'd hire 50 more data engineers and accelerate our real-time data capabilities to better target customers." Real-time is becoming a thing. AI is being injected into data and apps to make faster decisions, perhaps, with less or even no human involvement. That's on the rise. Next quote, "I'd like to focus on resolving the concerns around cloud data compliance," so, again, despite the risks of data being spread out in different clouds, organizations realize cloud is a given, and they want to find ways to make it work better, not move away from it. The same thing in the next one, "I would automate the data analytics pipeline and focus on a safer way to share data across the states without moving it," and, finally, "The way I'm addressing complexity is to standardize on a single cloud." MonoCloud is actually a thing. We're hearing this more and more. Yes, my company has multiple clouds, but in my group, we've standardized on a single cloud to simplify things, and this is a somewhat dangerous trend, because it's creating even more silos and it's an opportunity that needs to be addressed, and that's why we've been talking so much about supercloud is a cross-cloud, unifying, architectural framework, or, perhaps, it's a platform. In fact, that's a question that we will be exploring later this month at Supercloud2 live from our Palo Alto Studios. Is supercloud an architecture or is it a platform? And in this program, we're featuring technologists, analysts, practitioners to explore the intersection between data and cloud and the future of cloud computing, so, you don't want to miss this opportunity. Go to supercloud.world. You can register for free and participate in the event directly. All right, thanks for listening. That's a wrap. I'd like to thank Alex Myerson, who's on production and manages our podcast, Ken Schiffman as well, Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight, they helped get the word out on social media, and in our newsletters, and Rob Hof is our editor-in-chief over at siliconangle.com. He does some great editing. Thank you, all. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcasts wherever you listen. All you've got to do is search "breaking analysis podcasts." I publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com where you can email me directly at david.vellante@siliconangle.com or DM me, @Dante, or comment on our LinkedIn posts. By all means, check out etr.ai. They get the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. We'll be doing our annual predictions post in a few weeks, once the data comes out from the January survey. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching, everybody, and we'll see you next time on "Breaking Analysis." (upbeat music)

>>From the Cube Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from the cube and E T R. This is breaking analysis with Dave Valante. >>Making technology predictions in 2022 was tricky business, especially if you were projecting the performance of markets or identifying I P O prospects and making binary forecast on data AI and the macro spending climate and other related topics in enterprise tech 2022, of course was characterized by a seesaw economy where central banks were restructuring their balance sheets. The war on Ukraine fueled inflation supply chains were a mess. And the unintended consequences of of forced march to digital and the acceleration still being sorted out. Hello and welcome to this week's weekly on Cube Insights powered by E T R. In this breaking analysis, we continue our annual tradition of transparently grading last year's enterprise tech predictions. And you may or may not agree with our self grading system, but look, we're gonna give you the data and you can draw your own conclusions and tell you what, tell us what you think. >>All right, let's get right to it. So our first prediction was tech spending increases by 8% in 2022. And as we exited 2021 CIOs, they were optimistic about their digital transformation plans. You know, they rushed to make changes to their business and were eager to sharpen their focus and continue to iterate on their digital business models and plug the holes that they, the, in the learnings that they had. And so we predicted that 8% rise in enterprise tech spending, which looked pretty good until Ukraine and the Fed decided that, you know, had to rush and make up for lost time. We kind of nailed the momentum in the energy sector, but we can't give ourselves too much credit for that layup. And as of October, Gartner had it spending growing at just over 5%. I think it was 5.1%. So we're gonna take a C plus on this one and, and move on. >>Our next prediction was basically kind of a slow ground ball. The second base, if I have to be honest, but we felt it was important to highlight that security would remain front and center as the number one priority for organizations in 2022. As is our tradition, you know, we try to up the degree of difficulty by specifically identifying companies that are gonna benefit from these trends. So we highlighted some possible I P O candidates, which of course didn't pan out. S NQ was on our radar. The company had just had to do another raise and they recently took a valuation hit and it was a down round. They raised 196 million. So good chunk of cash, but, but not the i p O that we had predicted Aqua Securities focus on containers and cloud native. That was a trendy call and we thought maybe an M SS P or multiple managed security service providers like Arctic Wolf would I p o, but no way that was happening in the crummy market. >>Nonetheless, we think these types of companies, they're still faring well as the talent shortage in security remains really acute, particularly in the sort of mid-size and small businesses that often don't have a sock Lacework laid off 20% of its workforce in 2022. And CO C e o Dave Hatfield left the company. So that I p o didn't, didn't happen. It was probably too early for Lacework. Anyway, meanwhile you got Netscope, which we've cited as strong in the E T R data as particularly in the emerging technology survey. And then, you know, I lumia holding its own, you know, we never liked that 7 billion price tag that Okta paid for auth zero, but we loved the TAM expansion strategy to target developers beyond sort of Okta's enterprise strength. But we gotta take some points off of the failure thus far of, of Okta to really nail the integration and the go to market model with azero and build, you know, bring that into the, the, the core Okta. >>So the focus on endpoint security that was a winner in 2022 is CrowdStrike led that charge with others holding their own, not the least of which was Palo Alto Networks as it continued to expand beyond its core network security and firewall business, you know, through acquisition. So overall we're gonna give ourselves an A minus for this relatively easy call, but again, we had some specifics associated with it to make it a little tougher. And of course we're watching ve very closely this this coming year in 2023. The vendor consolidation trend. You know, according to a recent Palo Alto network survey with 1300 SecOps pros on average organizations have more than 30 tools to manage security tools. So this is a logical way to optimize cost consolidating vendors and consolidating redundant vendors. The E T R data shows that's clearly a trend that's on the upswing. >>Now moving on, a big theme of 2020 and 2021 of course was remote work and hybrid work and new ways to work and return to work. So we predicted in 2022 that hybrid work models would become the dominant protocol, which clearly is the case. We predicted that about 33% of the workforce would come back to the office in 2022 in September. The E T R data showed that figure was at 29%, but organizations expected that 32% would be in the office, you know, pretty much full-time by year end. That hasn't quite happened, but we were pretty close with the projection, so we're gonna take an A minus on this one. Now, supply chain disruption was another big theme that we felt would carry through 2022. And sure that sounds like another easy one, but as is our tradition, again we try to put some binary metrics around our predictions to put some meat in the bone, so to speak, and and allow us than you to say, okay, did it come true or not? >>So we had some data that we presented last year and supply chain issues impacting hardware spend. We said at the time, you can see this on the left hand side of this chart, the PC laptop demand would remain above pre covid levels, which would reverse a decade of year on year declines, which I think started in around 2011, 2012. Now, while demand is down this year pretty substantially relative to 2021, I D C has worldwide unit shipments for PCs at just over 300 million for 22. If you go back to 2019 and you're looking at around let's say 260 million units shipped globally, you know, roughly, so, you know, pretty good call there. Definitely much higher than pre covid levels. But so what you might be asking why the B, well, we projected that 30% of customers would replace security appliances with cloud-based services and that more than a third would replace their internal data center server and storage hardware with cloud services like 30 and 40% respectively. >>And we don't have explicit survey data on exactly these metrics, but anecdotally we see this happening in earnest. And we do have some data that we're showing here on cloud adoption from ET R'S October survey where the midpoint of workloads running in the cloud is around 34% and forecast, as you can see, to grow steadily over the next three years. So this, well look, this is not, we understand it's not a one-to-one correlation with our prediction, but it's a pretty good bet that we were right, but we gotta take some points off, we think for the lack of unequivocal proof. Cause again, we always strive to make our predictions in ways that can be measured as accurate or not. Is it binary? Did it happen, did it not? Kind of like an O K R and you know, we strive to provide data as proof and in this case it's a bit fuzzy. >>We have to admit that although we're pretty comfortable that the prediction was accurate. And look, when you make an hard forecast, sometimes you gotta pay the price. All right, next, we said in 2022 that the big four cloud players would generate 167 billion in IS and PaaS revenue combining for 38% market growth. And our current forecasts are shown here with a comparison to our January, 2022 figures. So coming into this year now where we are today, so currently we expect 162 billion in total revenue and a 33% growth rate. Still very healthy, but not on our mark. So we think a w s is gonna miss our predictions by about a billion dollars, not, you know, not bad for an 80 billion company. So they're not gonna hit that expectation though of getting really close to a hundred billion run rate. We thought they'd exit the year, you know, closer to, you know, 25 billion a quarter and we don't think they're gonna get there. >>Look, we pretty much nailed Azure even though our prediction W was was correct about g Google Cloud platform surpassing Alibaba, Alibaba, we way overestimated the performance of both of those companies. So we're gonna give ourselves a C plus here and we think, yeah, you might think it's a little bit harsh, we could argue for a B minus to the professor, but the misses on GCP and Alibaba we think warrant a a self penalty on this one. All right, let's move on to our prediction about Supercloud. We said it becomes a thing in 2022 and we think by many accounts it has, despite the naysayers, we're seeing clear evidence that the concept of a layer of value add that sits above and across clouds is taking shape. And on this slide we showed just some of the pickup in the industry. I mean one of the most interesting is CloudFlare, the biggest supercloud antagonist. >>Charles Fitzgerald even predicted that no vendor would ever use the term in their marketing. And that would be proof if that happened that Supercloud was a thing and he said it would never happen. Well CloudFlare has, and they launched their version of Supercloud at their developer week. Chris Miller of the register put out a Supercloud block diagram, something else that Charles Fitzgerald was, it was was pushing us for, which is rightly so, it was a good call on his part. And Chris Miller actually came up with one that's pretty good at David Linthicum also has produced a a a A block diagram, kind of similar, David uses the term metacloud and he uses the term supercloud kind of interchangeably to describe that trend. And so we we're aligned on that front. Brian Gracely has covered the concept on the popular cloud podcast. Berkeley launched the Sky computing initiative. >>You read through that white paper and many of the concepts highlighted in the Supercloud 3.0 community developed definition align with that. Walmart launched a platform with many of the supercloud salient attributes. So did Goldman Sachs, so did Capital One, so did nasdaq. So you know, sorry you can hate the term, but very clearly the evidence is gathering for the super cloud storm. We're gonna take an a plus on this one. Sorry, haters. Alright, let's talk about data mesh in our 21 predictions posts. We said that in the 2020s, 75% of large organizations are gonna re-architect their big data platforms. So kind of a decade long prediction. We don't like to do that always, but sometimes it's warranted. And because it was a longer term prediction, we, at the time in, in coming into 22 when we were evaluating our 21 predictions, we took a grade of incomplete because the sort of decade long or majority of the decade better part of the decade prediction. >>So last year, earlier this year, we said our number seven prediction was data mesh gains momentum in 22. But it's largely confined and narrow data problems with limited scope as you can see here with some of the key bullets. So there's a lot of discussion in the data community about data mesh and while there are an increasing number of examples, JP Morgan Chase, Intuit, H S P C, HelloFresh, and others that are completely rearchitecting parts of their data platform completely rearchitecting entire data platforms is non-trivial. There are organizational challenges, there're data, data ownership, debates, technical considerations, and in particular two of the four fundamental data mesh principles that the, the need for a self-service infrastructure and federated computational governance are challenging. Look, democratizing data and facilitating data sharing creates conflicts with regulatory requirements around data privacy. As such many organizations are being really selective with their data mesh implementations and hence our prediction of narrowing the scope of data mesh initiatives. >>I think that was right on J P M C is a good example of this, where you got a single group within a, within a division narrowly implementing the data mesh architecture. They're using a w s, they're using data lakes, they're using Amazon Glue, creating a catalog and a variety of other techniques to meet their objectives. They kind of automating data quality and it was pretty well thought out and interesting approach and I think it's gonna be made easier by some of the announcements that Amazon made at the recent, you know, reinvent, particularly trying to eliminate ET t l, better connections between Aurora and Redshift and, and, and better data sharing the data clean room. So a lot of that is gonna help. Of course, snowflake has been on this for a while now. Many other companies are facing, you know, limitations as we said here and this slide with their Hadoop data platforms. They need to do new, some new thinking around that to scale. HelloFresh is a really good example of this. Look, the bottom line is that organizations want to get more value from data and having a centralized, highly specialized teams that own the data problem, it's been a barrier and a blocker to success. The data mesh starts with organizational considerations as described in great detail by Ash Nair of Warner Brothers. So take a listen to this clip. >>Yeah, so when people think of Warner Brothers, you always think of like the movie studio, but we're more than that, right? I mean, you think of H B O, you think of t n t, you think of C N N. We have 30 plus brands in our portfolio and each have their own needs. So the, the idea of a data mesh really helps us because what we can do is we can federate access across the company so that, you know, CNN can work at their own pace. You know, when there's election season, they can ingest their own data and they don't have to, you know, bump up against, as an example, HBO if Game of Thrones is going on. >>So it's often the case that data mesh is in the eyes of the implementer. And while a company's implementation may not strictly adhere to Jamma Dani's vision of data mesh, and that's okay, the goal is to use data more effectively. And despite Gartner's attempts to deposition data mesh in favor of the somewhat confusing or frankly far more confusing data fabric concept that they stole from NetApp data mesh is taking hold in organizations globally today. So we're gonna take a B on this one. The prediction is shaping up the way we envision, but as we previously reported, it's gonna take some time. The better part of a decade in our view, new standards have to emerge to make this vision become reality and they'll come in the form of both open and de facto approaches. Okay, our eighth prediction last year focused on the face off between Snowflake and Databricks. >>And we realized this popular topic, and maybe one that's getting a little overplayed, but these are two companies that initially, you know, looked like they were shaping up as partners and they, by the way, they are still partnering in the field. But you go back a couple years ago, the idea of using an AW w s infrastructure, Databricks machine intelligence and applying that on top of Snowflake as a facile data warehouse, still very viable. But both of these companies, they have much larger ambitions. They got big total available markets to chase and large valuations that they have to justify. So what's happening is, as we've previously reported, each of these companies is moving toward the other firm's core domain and they're building out an ecosystem that'll be critical for their future. So as part of that effort, we said each is gonna become aggressive investors and maybe start doing some m and a and they have in various companies. >>And on this chart that we produced last year, we studied some of the companies that were targets and we've added some recent investments of both Snowflake and Databricks. As you can see, they've both, for example, invested in elation snowflake's, put money into Lacework, the Secur security firm, ThoughtSpot, which is trying to democratize data with ai. Collibra is a governance platform and you can see Databricks investments in data transformation with D B T labs, Matillion doing simplified business intelligence hunters. So that's, you know, they're security investment and so forth. So other than our thought that we'd see Databricks I p o last year, this prediction been pretty spot on. So we'll give ourselves an A on that one. Now observability has been a hot topic and we've been covering it for a while with our friends at E T R, particularly Eric Bradley. Our number nine prediction last year was basically that if you're not cloud native and observability, you are gonna be in big trouble. >>So everything guys gotta go cloud native. And that's clearly been the case. Splunk, the big player in the space has been transitioning to the cloud, hasn't always been pretty, as we reported, Datadog real momentum, the elk stack, that's open source model. You got new entrants that we've cited before, like observe, honeycomb, chaos search and others that we've, we've reported on, they're all born in the cloud. So we're gonna take another a on this one, admittedly, yeah, it's a re reasonably easy call, but you gotta have a few of those in the mix. Okay, our last prediction, our number 10 was around events. Something the cube knows a little bit about. We said that a new category of events would emerge as hybrid and that for the most part is happened. So that's gonna be the mainstay is what we said. That pure play virtual events are gonna give way to hi hybrid. >>And the narrative is that virtual only events are, you know, they're good for quick hits, but lousy replacements for in-person events. And you know that said, organizations of all shapes and sizes, they learn how to create better virtual content and support remote audiences during the pandemic. So when we set at pure play is gonna give way to hybrid, we said we, we i we implied or specific or specified that the physical event that v i p experience is going defined. That overall experience and those v i p events would create a little fomo, fear of, of missing out in a virtual component would overlay that serves an audience 10 x the size of the physical. We saw that really two really good examples. Red Hat Summit in Boston, small event, couple thousand people served tens of thousands, you know, online. Second was Google Cloud next v i p event in, in New York City. >>Everything else was, was, was, was virtual. You know, even examples of our prediction of metaverse like immersion have popped up and, and and, and you know, other companies are doing roadshow as we predicted like a lot of companies are doing it. You're seeing that as a major trend where organizations are going with their sales teams out into the regions and doing a little belly to belly action as opposed to the big giant event. That's a definitely a, a trend that we're seeing. So in reviewing this prediction, the grade we gave ourselves is, you know, maybe a bit unfair, it should be, you could argue for a higher grade, but the, but the organization still haven't figured it out. They have hybrid experiences but they generally do a really poor job of leveraging the afterglow and of event of an event. It still tends to be one and done, let's move on to the next event or the next city. >>Let the sales team pick up the pieces if they were paying attention. So because of that, we're only taking a B plus on this one. Okay, so that's the review of last year's predictions. You know, overall if you average out our grade on the 10 predictions that come out to a b plus, I dunno why we can't seem to get that elusive a, but we're gonna keep trying our friends at E T R and we are starting to look at the data for 2023 from the surveys and all the work that we've done on the cube and our, our analysis and we're gonna put together our predictions. We've had literally hundreds of inbounds from PR pros pitching us. We've got this huge thick folder that we've started to review with our yellow highlighter. And our plan is to review it this month, take a look at all the data, get some ideas from the inbounds and then the e t R of January surveys in the field. >>It's probably got a little over a thousand responses right now. You know, they'll get up to, you know, 1400 or so. And once we've digested all that, we're gonna go back and publish our predictions for 2023 sometime in January. So stay tuned for that. All right, we're gonna leave it there for today. You wanna thank Alex Myerson who's on production and he manages the podcast, Ken Schiffman as well out of our, our Boston studio. I gotta really heartfelt thank you to Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight and their team. They helped get the word out on social and in our newsletters. Rob Ho is our editor in chief over at Silicon Angle who does some great editing for us. Thank you all. Remember all these podcasts are available or all these episodes are available is podcasts. Wherever you listen, just all you do Search Breaking analysis podcast, really getting some great traction there. Appreciate you guys subscribing. I published each week on wikibon.com, silicon angle.com or you can email me directly at david dot valante silicon angle.com or dm me Dante, or you can comment on my LinkedIn post. And please check out ETR AI for the very best survey data in the enterprise tech business. Some awesome stuff in there. This is Dante for the Cube Insights powered by etr. Thanks for watching and we'll see you next time on breaking analysis.

>>From the Cube Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data driven insights from the cube and etr. This is breaking analysis with Dave Ante. >>Have you ever been driving on the highway and traffic suddenly slows way down and then after a little while it picks up again and you're cruising along and you're thinking, Okay, hey, that was weird. But it's clear sailing now. Off we go, only to find out in a bit that the traffic is building up ahead again, forcing you to pump the brakes as the traffic pattern ebbs and flows well. Welcome to the Seesaw economy. The fed induced fire that prompted an unprecedented rally in tech is being purposefully extinguished now by that same fed. And virtually every sector of the tech industry is having to reset its expectations, including the cloud segment. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibon Cube Insights powered by etr. In this breaking analysis will review the implications of the earnings announcements from the big three cloud players, Amazon, Microsoft, and Google who announced this week. >>And we'll update you on our quarterly IAS forecast and share the latest from ETR with a focus on cloud computing. Now, before we get into the new data, we wanna review something we shared with you on October 14th, just a couple weeks back, this is sort of a, we told you it was coming slide. It's an XY graph that shows ET R'S proprietary net score methodology on the vertical axis. That's a measure of spending momentum, spending velocity, and an overlap or presence in the dataset that's on the X axis. That's really a measure of pervasiveness. In the survey, the table, you see that table insert there that shows Wiki Bond's Q2 estimates of IAS revenue for the big four hyperscalers with their year on year growth rates. Now we told you at the time, this is data from the July TW 22 ETR survey and the ETR hadn't released its October survey results at that time. >>This was just a couple weeks ago. And while we couldn't share the specific data from the October survey, we were able to get a glimpse and we depicted the slowdown that we saw in the October data with those dotted arrows kind of down into the right, we said at the time that we were seeing and across the board slowdown even for the big three cloud vendors. Now, fast forward to this past week and we saw earnings releases from Alphabet, Microsoft, and just last night Amazon. Now you may be thinking, okay, big deal. The ETR survey data didn't really tell us anything we didn't already know. But judging from the negative reaction in the stock market to these earnings announcements, the degree of softness surprised a lot of investors. Now, at the time we didn't update our forecast, it doesn't make sense for us to do that when we're that close to earning season. >>And now that all the big three ha with all the big four with the exception of Alibaba have announced we've, we've updated. And so here's that data. This chart lays out our view of the IS and PAs worldwide revenue. Basically it's cloud infrastructure with an attempt to exclude any SaaS revenue so we can make an apples to apples comparison across all the clouds. Now the reason that actual is in quotes is because Microsoft and Google don't report IAS revenue, but they do give us clues and kind of directional commentary, which we then triangulate with other data that we have from the channel and ETR surveys and just our own intelligence. Now the second column there after the vendor name shows our previous estimates for q3, and then next to that we show our actuals. Same with the growth rates. And then we round out the chart with that lighter blue color highlights, the full year estimates for revenue and growth. >>So the key takeaways are that we shaved about $4 billion in revenue and roughly 300 basis points of growth off of our full year estimates. AWS had a strong July but exited Q3 in the mid 20% growth rate year over year. So we're using that guidance, you know, for our Q4 estimates. Azure came in below our earlier estimates, but Google actually exceeded our expectations. Now the compression in the numbers is in our view of function of the macro demand climate, we've made every attempt to adjust for constant currency. So FX should not be a factor in this data, but it's sure you know that that ma the the, the currency effects are weighing on those companies income statements. And so look, this is the fundamental dynamic of a cloud model where you can dial down consumption when you need to and dial it up when you need to. >>Now you may be thinking that many big cloud customers have a committed level of spending in order to get better discounts. And that's true. But what's happening we think is they'll reallocate that spend toward, let's say for example, lower cost storage tiers or they may take advantage of better price performance processors like Graviton for example. That is a clear trend that we're seeing and smaller companies that were perhaps paying by the drink just on demand, they're moving to reserve instance models to lower their monthly bill. So instead of taking the easy way out and just spending more companies are reallocating their reserve capacity toward lower cost. So those sort of lower cost services, so they're spending time and effort optimizing to get more for, for less whereas, or get more for the same is really how we should, should, should phrase it. Whereas during the pandemic, many companies were, you know, they perhaps were not as focused on doing that because business was booming and they had a response. >>So they just, you know, spend more dial it up. So in general, as they say, customers are are doing more with, with the same. Now let's look at the growth dynamic and spend some time on that. I think this is important. This data shows worldwide quarterly revenue growth rates back to Q1 2019 for the big four. So a couple of interesting things. The data tells us during the pandemic, you saw both AWS and Azure, but the law of large numbers and actually accelerate growth. AWS especially saw progressively increasing growth rates throughout 2021 for each quarter. Now that trend, as you can see is reversed in 2022 for aws. Now we saw Azure come down a bit, but it's still in the low forties in terms of percentage growth. While Google actually saw an uptick in growth this last quarter for GCP by our estimates as GCP is becoming an increasingly large portion of Google's overall cloud business. >>Now, unfortunately Google Cloud continues to lose north of 850 million per quarter, whereas AWS and Azure are profitable cloud businesses even though Alibaba is suffering its woes from China. And we'll see how they come in when they report in mid-November. The overall hyperscale market grew at 32% in Q3 in terms of worldwide revenue. So the slowdown isn't due to the repatriation or competition from on-prem vendors in our view, it's a macro related trend. And cloud will continue to significantly outperform other sectors despite its massive size. You know, on the repatriation point, it just still doesn't show up in the data. The A 16 Z article from Sarah Wong and Martin Martin Kasa claiming that repatriation was inevitable as a means to lower cost of good sold for SaaS companies. You know, while that was thought provoking, it hasn't shown up in the numbers. And if you read the financial statements of both AWS and its partners like Snowflake and you dig into the, to the, to the quarterly reports, you'll see little notes and comments with their ongoing negotiations to lower cloud costs for customers. >>AWS and no doubt execs at Azure and GCP understand that the lifetime value of a customer is worth much more than near term gross margin. And you can expect the cloud vendors to strike a balance between profitability, near term profitability anyway and customer attention. Now, even though Google Cloud platform saw accelerated growth, we need to put that in context for you. So GCP, by our estimate, has now crossed over the $3 billion for quarter market actually did so last quarter, but its growth rate accelerated to 42% this quarter. And so that's a good sign in our view. But let's do a quick little comparison with when AWS and Azure crossed the $3 billion mark and compare their growth rates at the time. So if you go back to to Q2 2016, as we're showing in this chart, that's around the time that AWS hit 3 billion per quarter and at the same time was growing at 58%. >>Azure by our estimates crossed that mark in Q4 2018 and at that time was growing at 67%. Again, compare that to Google's 42%. So one would expect Google's growth rate would be higher than its competitors at this point in the MO in the maturity of its cloud, which it's, you know, it's really not when you compared to to Azure. I mean they're kind of con, you know, comparable now but today, but, but you'll go back, you know, to that $3 billion mark. But more so looking at history, you'd like to see its growth rate at this point of a maturity model at least over 50%, which we don't believe it is. And one other point on this topic, you know, my business friend Matt Baker from Dell often says it's not a zero sum game, meaning there's plenty of opportunity exists to build value on top of hyperscalers. >>And I would totally agree it's not a dollar for dollar swap if you can continue to innovate. But history will show that the first company in makes the most money. Number two can do really well and number three tends to break even. Now maybe cloud is different because you have Microsoft software estate and the power behind that and that's driving its IAS business and Google ads are funding technology buildouts for, for for Google and gcp. So you know, we'll see how that plays out. But right now by this one measurement, Google is four years behind Microsoft in six years behind aws. Now to the point that cloud will continue to outpace other markets, let's, let's break this down a bit in spending terms and see why this claim holds water. This is data from ET r's latest October survey that shows the granularity of its net score or spending velocity metric. >>The lime green is new adoptions, so they're adding the platform, the forest green is spending more 6% or more. The gray bars spending is flat plus or minus, you know, 5%. The pinkish colors represent spending less down 6% or worse. And the bright red shows defections or churn of the platform. You subtract the reds from the greens and you get what's called net score, which is that blue dot that you can see on each of the bars. So what you see in the table insert is that all three have net scores above 40%, which is a highly elevated measure. Microsoft's net scores above 60% AWS well into the fifties and GCP in the mid forties. So all good. Now what's happening with all three is more customers are keep keeping their spending flat. So a higher percentage of customers are saying, our spending is now flat than it was in previous quarters and that's what's accounting for the compression. >>But the churn of all three, even gcp, which we reported, you know, last quarter from last quarter survey was was five x. The other two is actually very low in the single digits. So that might have been an anomaly. So that's a very good sign in our view. You know, again, customers aren't repatriating in droves, it's just not a trend that we would bet on, maybe makes for a FUD or you know, good marketing head, but it's just not a big deal. And you can't help but be impressed with both Microsoft and AWS's performance in the survey. And as we mentioned before, these companies aren't going to give up customers to try and preserve a little bit of gross margin. They'll do what it takes to keep people on their platforms cuz they'll make up for it over time with added services and improved offerings. >>Now, once these companies acquire a customer, they'll be very aggressive about keeping them. So customers take note, you have negotiating leverage, so use it. Okay, let's look at another cut at the cloud market from the ETR data set. Here's the two dimensional view, again, it's back, it's one of our favorites. Net score or spending momentum plotted against presence. And the data set, that's the x axis net score on the, on the vertical axis, this is a view of et r's cloud computing sector sector. You can see we put that magic 40% dotted red line in the table showing and, and then that the table inserts shows how the data are plotted with net score against presence. I e n in the survey, notably only the big three are above the 40% line of the names that we're showing here. The oth there, there are others. >>I mean if you put Snowflake on there, it'd be higher than any of these names, but we'll dig into that name in a later breaking analysis episode. Now this is just another way of quantifying the dominance of AWS and Azure, not only relative to Google, but the other cloud platforms out there. So we've, we've taken the opportunity here to plot IBM and Oracle, which both own a public cloud. Their performance is largely a reflection of them migrating their install bases to their respective public clouds and or hybrid clouds. And you know, that's fine, they're in the game. That's a point that we've made, you know, a number of times they're able to make it through the cloud, not whole and they at least have one, but they simply don't have the business momentum of AWS and Azure, which is actually quite impressive because AWS and Azure are now as large or larger than IBM and Oracle. >>And to show this type of continued growth that that that Azure and AWS show at their size is quite remarkable and customers are starting to recognize the viability of on-prem hi, you know, hybrid clouds like HPE GreenLake and Dell's apex. You know, you may say, well that's not cloud, but if the customer thinks it is and it was reporting in the survey that it is, we're gonna continue to report this view. You know, I don't know what's happening with H P E, They had a big down tick this quarter and I, and I don't read too much into that because their end is still pretty small at 53. So big fluctuations are not uncommon with those types of smaller ends, but it's over 50. So, you know, we did notice a a a negative within a giant public and private sector, which is often a, a bellwether giant public private is big public companies and large private companies like, like a Mars for example. >>So it, you know, it looks like for HPE it could be an outlier. We saw within the Fortune 1000 HPE E'S cloud looked actually really good and it had good spending momentum in that sector. When you di dig into the industry data within ETR dataset, obviously we're not showing that here, but we'll continue to monitor that. Okay, so where's this Leave us. Well look, this is really a tactical story of currency and macro headwinds as you can see. You know, we've laid out some of the points on this slide. The action in the stock market today, which is Friday after some of the soft earnings reports is really robust. You know, we'll see how it ends up in the day. So maybe this is a sign that the worst is over, but we don't think so. The visibility from tech companies is murky right now as most are guiding down, which indicates that their conservative outlook last quarter was still too optimistic. >>But as it relates to cloud, that platform is not going anywhere anytime soon. Sure, there are potential disruptors on the horizon, especially at the edge, but we're still a long ways off from, from the possibility that a new economic model emerges from the edge to disrupt the cloud and the opportunities in the cloud remain strong. I mean, what other path is there? Really private cloud. It was kind of a bandaid until the on-prem guys could get their a as a service models rolled out, which is just now happening. The hybrid thing is real, but it's, you know, defensive for the incumbents until they can get their super cloud investments going. Super cloud implying, capturing value above the hyperscaler CapEx, you know, call it what you want multi what multi-cloud should have been, the metacloud, the Uber cloud, whatever you like. But there are opportunities to play offense and that's clearly happening in the cloud ecosystem with the likes of Snowflake, Mongo, Hashi Corp. >>Hammer Spaces is a startup in this area. Aviatrix, CrowdStrike, Zeke Scaler, Okta, many, many more. And even the projects we see coming out of enterprise players like Dell, like with Project Alpine and what Pure Storage is doing along with a number of other of the backup vendors. So Q4 should be really interesting, but the real story is the investments that that companies are making now to leverage the cloud for digital transformations will be paying off down the road. This is not 1999. We had, you know, May might have had some good ideas and admittedly at a lot of bad ones too, but you didn't have the infrastructure to service customers at a low enough cost like you do today. The cloud is that infrastructure and so far it's been transformative, but it's likely the best is yet to come. Okay, let's call this a rap. >>Many thanks to Alex Morrison who does production and manages the podcast. Also Can Schiffman is our newest edition to the Boston Studio. Kristin Martin and Cheryl Knight helped get the word out on social media and in our newsletters. And Rob Ho is our editor in chief over@siliconangle.com, who does some wonderful editing for us. Thank you. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcasts. Wherever you listen, just search breaking analysis podcast. I publish each week on wiki bond.com at silicon angle.com. And you can email me at David dot valante@siliconangle.com or DM me at Dante or comment on my LinkedIn posts. And please do checkout etr.ai. They got the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Valante for the Cube Insights powered by etr. Thanks for watching and we'll see you next time on breaking analysis.

>>Hi, everyone. Welcome to the cubes coverage of Avis reinvent 2021 we're onsite in person. It's a virtual event, also hybrid events. I'm Jennifer and my host, David Dante ninth year, Dave, we've been doing Avis reinvent the cube and it's 11th season. We've seen a lot. Yeah, I'll say. >>And the show is pretty packed, John. I mean, I think it's surprised some folks over 25,000 people here. I mean, obviously a lot of sponsors, but >>Customers to a bad event for AWS in terms of attendance is like record-breaking for any other company, people are standing in line for sessions. It's definitely happening. People are here to learn. They're not just all employees. So definitely a successful event in person as well in the live stream. But so much news to talk about. Andy Jassy is now the CEO of Amazon. That's the top story Adam's Lipsky's taking over as CEO of AWS time, Amazonian who left Amazon to take the CEO job of Tableau sold that company to Salesforce under mark Benioff. Now back to take the helm from Andy Jassy and quite the pressure cooker here as he takes the stage, a lot of people are asking, is will he do well? Will he fumble on stage? Will he do the right things? And does he have what it takes to take the cloud to the next generation with AWS as their number one clear far and away, then the second competitor in Microsoft and then a look distant third and Google. So Amazon's are under a ton of competitive pressure. At least from an industry standpoint, everyone's still trying to catch up. It's the same theme, Dave, every year Amazon is out front and the lead just gets extended and extended. And again, here, no exception. Well, the Uber >>Of course there's you mentioned is Andy Jassy is now taking over a CEO of Amazon. And you know, history would suggest that a lot of times that companies falter when there's a CEO transition, but it feels like it's different this time. Andy Jassy was here since the beginning launched AWS versus a profit engine of Amazon brought back Adam sill Lipski who has a deep understand. He's not as technical as Andy, but obviously as a deep understanding of the business, yeah, he was comfortable up in the keynote. It wasn't John, a typical firehose of announcements. Even those, a lot of announcements, they didn't shove them down our throat and they didn't in the analyst session as well. Usually in the analyst session, it's hours and hours and hours of firehose Kool-Aid injection, not this year. Why do you think that is, is that a COVID thing? Is that a change in now? >>I think Adam's Leschi wants to be his own guy. As, as leader here, a lot of things were eliminated from the keynote that Andy Jasmine did, for instance, Andy Jesse loves music. So we always had the music walk up music like you see in sports, uh, which is very cool. That's an Andy Jassy kind of tweak. Andy is all about announcements and he was just, uh, pushing the envelope. Adam was much more laid back. He sees, I think, more of a holistic picture being more of an app guy being more of a data guy, less of a, I would say under the covers nerd like Jassy was, Andy was very deep on, on a lot of the tech stuff as is Adam. But I think Andy a little bit more proactive on that. So Adam was very much more about the impact of 80 of us culturally, as a society, as a company and kind of brought in this kind of think different apple vibe, which is, you know, the people who are Pathfinders, um, as he takes that Jassy kind of, um, approach of leaders, but be a builder, be a change agent, be a game changer. >>Adam took it to another level by saying, Hey, it's okay to be a Pathfinder because it's net new disruption with the cloud. And I think that's the story that I see coming out of this where, uh, in talking to Adam one-on-one Amazon absolutely has a secret weapon in it's chips, custom Silicon. They're absolutely crushing it with how they're thinking about SAS and platforms and they have a huge ecosystem. And I think at the end of the day, and we talked about this in our story on Silicon angle, Amazon could actually wipe out Microsoft. And I think Microsoft's core competitive advantage has always been their ecosystem and their developers. I think right now in the next few years, if Microsoft doesn't match Amazon, they will be decimated anyway, you know? >>Yeah, hold on. Okay. Amazon's not going to wipe out Microsoft. Microsoft has too much of a cash cow. Look at the hanging on to windows. Couldn't, you know, the mistake and missing mobile event initially missing the cloud. Didn't wipe out Microsoft. So they've just got too much of a software cashflow. That's not gonna happen maybe a little bit over the top. >>I thought, but Microsoft has done a great job and it's not going to tell it to kind of stay in the game and do more. But if you look at the major inflection points, Dave where's digital equipment corporation, where's prime computer. Well, >>I think this is the point is again, history would show that those companies, when they handed the reigns over to a new CEO failed, they faltered, it was self-inflicted wounds. It almost happened. You thought it would happen with Microsoft, whether it became irrelevant under bomber, but when Nadella came in, he reinvigorated because specifically they had the cashflow to be able to do that. Now. So the big question is, okay, w what's going to happen. We ran a survey to our community to see what could disrupt Amazon. You know, that the us government wants to break them apart or wants to regulate them. But our survey respondents said there's a 60% plus probability that Amazon will be disrupted by other factors. And that's what I was self-inflicted wound that's Jesse's that's right. And that's, Jessie's big challenge is how to not make those disruptions, how to fight those disruptions. >>The number one, uh, reason why they could be disrupted was self-inflicted wounds, which again, history would show what happened. But one of the things we talked about is that normally happens when companies stop innovating when they rest on their laurels. Right. And you kind of saw that with those companies that you mentioned, but you mentioned their secret weapon. We wrote about that in our article, the chips. So we heard no secret. Everybody knew graviton three was coming, right? And so that is Amazon secret up. And you know, I've been thinking about this. John Amazon makes a lot of money on x86 instances that they've deployed years ago and they charge a lot for, I was wondering, you know, is the, or the old X 86 instances actually more profitable than graviton, maybe at this point in time, but long-term graviton. They control their own destiny because they control the hardware and software stack. And I bet you allows them to get better negotiating leverage with >>M D and it's of course, I mean, pat, Kelsey, we should talk about this all the time, but as bad as Jason Intel, you, if you're not out in the next wave, your driftwood, I think Intel and AMD and others, they have purpose-built general purpose chips. They're probably going to be for the lift and shift stuff when you, but if you're actually seriously writing software as an owner on the cloud, and you want specific advantages of speed and performance, you're going to want the custom Silicon that's purpose-built for your application and write code to that stack. So, so I think there's a whole nother level of platform as a service. Dave, that's kind of coming out of this re-invent that I think could be a multi generational trend, which is, Hey, the cloud is of super cloud or platform. Look at the riser, snowflake and Databricks. Those guys are on Amazon. Like they're super clouds in and of themselves they're platforms. They're not appoint SAS solution. I think Microsoft in my, my analysis is, yeah, they got office 365, okay. Word processing stuff. But what other SAS apps do they have besides SQL server and other things that are actually being built on there? And if, if I'm a developer you're going to want to go to the platform. That's the highest performance for office 365. It's a cash cow. But how long is that going to last >>A long time? I mean, major momentum. We argue about that later, but I wanna, I want to touch on graviton three because I think that was the big announcement of the day 25% faster than graviton to at least twice the floating point performance twice the crypto graphic performance in three times for machine learning, learning workloads, and very importantly, 60% less power. So at Amazon scale, uh, Adam said this in our meeting, he said, the economics really favor us because of our scale. And so, and they've also announced new training them instances and, and, and what, what having custom Silicon allows Amazon to do is release on a much, much faster cadence than traditional x86. And they could do, and they could do really cool things. Nitro is there, Nick they're smart NEC, which it says the basis, their new hypervisor, if you will. So it allows them to bring in x86, uh, Nvidia NPUs some of their own or Nvidia GPU, some of their own Silicon. So optionality is really the key there. You heard them announce, uh, an SAP instance. So that's a memory intensive instance. They can dial things up, dial things down. They've got full control of the stack. And by the way, copying them Google's copy of Microsoft is copying them. And who's leading this charge in custom Silicon, AWS, obviously Tesla, apple. I mean, these are leading companies that I don't think they all got it wrong. I think >>The Silicon angle is to have your own custom Silicon. And that's the, that is the clearly the advantage as it's vertically integrated. But the other thing that's coming out of this reinvents, the purpose built software concept where, you know, they're not copying Microsoft playbook as the wall street journal was saying, and some are saying Microsoft copying Amazon, Amazon has always been this horizontally scalable resource that's cloud, but with machine learning and AI, you now have this purpose-built kind of capability from software into the app itself where data has to be addressable. And I think the people in the data business kind of know this, but as the rest of the world comes out, architecturally having that horizontal observation space and data that's vertically tied to machine learning is a huge architectural shift. This is a complete rethinking of how software is built and that's going to be a game changer. I think Amazon's well out on front of that. And I think that's going to be a huge architectural shift. >>Well, let's quantify this a little bit because you know, you're, you're making the point that Amazon is the number one cloud, which I would agree with. We're talking here about IAS infrastructure as a service in the past layer that sits on top of that. Microsoft defines the cloud is we'll put in an office 365, Google we'll put in its Google apps, Amazon pure infrastructure as a service. And if you just look at that space, that's about $120 billion business. When you add up AWS, Azure, Alibaba and GCP, which I would contend are the only four hyperscalers out there. I don't include Oracle as a hyperscale. I don't include IBM. I get a lot of crap for that sometimes. Yeah, but we're talking big scaler, $120 billion. So actually relatively small compared to the trillion dollar opportunity that they have, but it's growing at 35% a year. Amazon will do more than 60 billion this year, 62 billion, just to quantify it in that ISS space. Microsoft will be about 38, 30 9 billion. Okay. So pretty substantial. Those two are far ahead of the others. Everybody else's, you know, Google is still in, you know, under 10 billion, Alibaba is right around there. So those two, it's really a two horse race. And I asked Microsoft using its software estate. Amazon's gotta be the innovator and has to have the best cloud to win. And it does well >>Also a platform. Let's go back to the little history lesson for the younger folks out there. When Microsoft was had a monopoly, they had windows operating system, which has had DAS under the covers, but windows was the operating system. And office was a suite of applications. They encourage software developers to build on top of windows and they had other servers off SQL server all came out of that small history. So their bread and butter was to have developers build on top of windows. Hence the monopoly, of course they had the application and the system software, hence the monopoly, hence the Microsoft breakup by the government in 1997. Now today cloud is essentially one big kind of PC concept. It's like windows, it's windows equivalent. So cloud is essentially an environment platform that has apps that run on top of it. Okay. In that world, Amazon by far is the number one windows model at Amazon's. >>I mean, Microsoft is used to is okay, I got Azure and I got office 365 that keeps them in business that keeps them from losing. So it's a placeholder. So that what I'm looking at is what is Amazon? I mean, Amazon versus Azure, doing relative to ISV and uptake for developers. And I'm suggesting that this trend of Amazon will go, if it goes uncontested by Azure, they'll wipe the table on ISV and suffer developers. If you're an owner of a software, you're not gonna write software, that's gonna be sub-optimized for a platform. That's not going to be before, >>Unless you're, unless you're a Microsoft developer, nearly all.net days. And there are a lot of those. And that's what, that's what Microsoft is doing. They're they're, they're, they've, they've shifted to cloud, they've gone everything into cloud. So Azure is their platform for innovation and acceleration. >>So those developers are going to build a sub application versus going over here on AWS. >>Well, that's the, that's the story with Microsoft. Good enough. I know >>Again, this is we're speculating, but we're going to watch that, but that is, to me, will be the battlefield of what will determine Azure versus AWS. And I think everything else is smoke and mirrors Amazon Webster way ahead of Azure, but the TeleSign is going to be does 80 bus attract those developers on their cloud with the custom Silicon, with the integrated stack and with the purpose-built software. I mean, it's looking really good. I think they've got a really compelling story. >>I think it's less about Azure versus AWS. I mean, that's an interesting storyline and I love to talk about it, but I think they'll go back to 120 billion out of 4 trillion. That's really the, the larger opportunity for, for both Microsoft and AWS to continue to grow. Because you look at, you look at Dell with apex, you look at HPE with GreenLake, Lenovo, Cisco, they've all got their own clouds. One of the things that didn't get into our article, but Adam Lipski when, when you asked him about hybrid is that hybrid cloud. When we were talking about some of the stuff they're doing, he S he said, look, that's not cloud what those guys are doing. That's not what we did. And he talked today about edge has to be AWS, not like AWS. That was the quote to use. Talk about, you know, private 5g, bringing out posts. And he gave some examples of that. The point is they, AWS is bringing its system, its architecture to the edge it's programming model infrastructure as code to the edge. Now, Kubernetes, Kubernetes does moderate that a little bit, but his point was, that's not AWS. That's not the cloud. >>Yeah. I think in summary, Dave had to wrap up what's the big trend this week is that Amazon web services is a, is a heaven environment for a developer, for the elite people who want to roll their own for the folks in it. In these other environments, you can have prefabricated purpose-built software platform to build on top of. And I think that isn't going to address the whole ease of ease of rollout. So if I'm a SAS developer, I don't, I want, I don't want to rebuild that over again. I don't want to roll my own. I'll take what you got and connects a good example. If you want to call shedder, you can take it and use it and then build on top of it and iterate on it. So I think it's more of here's a platform for you and take it. So I think that to me is the big story and that's not and think about it. How many people out there, a role in their own Amazon, you've got to be pretty strong at Amazon, uh, familiar ups to roll your own gut >>Of other quick points that he barely emphasized the primitives, the API APIs, that multiple databases, right tool for the right job, took a shot at Oracle without mentioning Oracle because they had sort of one database, but I will say this is mission critical. Oracle still owns that. Uh, they talked about a mainframe migration, tooling and runtime from mainframe compatible runtime. That's going to allow them to nip at the edges of those mainframe workloads and Oracle workloads. It, they're not going to get to the core anytime soon. They also talked about role level and cell level security. We think that's the squirrel acquisition from years ago. And then he made a statement. We have three X with Redshift price performance better than any cloud data warehouse sort of interesting shot at, at, at, at a snowflake and Databricks Databricks. So, um, anyway, yeah, >>I mean, I think, I think overall, I thought Adam did a good job. I think he didn't, uh, he didn't disappoint. Okay. But that's comfortable. I think his goal was to get through this and not have people go well, it's not Andy Jassy. I thought he did an awesome job and he did a good job. And he, he got, he got what he needed to do >>Comfortable. And he obviously leaned on some of his Pathfinder customers. NASDAQ, I thought was very impressive. United airlines dish. So, >>Okay. Cutie coverage, ninth year of the cube here at ADP reinvent, uh, 2021 is the cube. You're watching the leader in high-tech coverage. The cube.

>>From the Bellagio hotel in Las Vegas. It's the cube covering UI path forward for brought to you by UI path. >>Good morning. Welcome to the cubes coverage of UI path forward for day two. Live from the Bellagio in Las Vegas. I'm Lisa Martin with Dave Velante, Dave. We had a great action packed day yesterday. We're going to have another action packed day today. We've got the CEO coming on. We've got customers coming on, but there's been a lot in the news last 24 hours. Facebook, what are your thoughts? >>Yeah, so wall street journal today, headline Facebook hearing fuels call for rain in on big tech. All right, everybody's going after big tech. Uh, for those of you who missed it, 60 minutes had a, uh, an interview with the whistleblower. Her name is, uh, Francis Haugen. She's very credible, just a little background. I'll give you my take. I mean, she was hired to help set Facebook straight and protect privacy of individuals, of children. And I really feel like, again, she, she didn't come across as, as bitter or antagonistic, but, but I feel as though she feels betrayed, right, I think she was hired to do a job. They lured her in to say, Hey, this is again, just my take to say, Hey, we want your help in earnest to protect the privacy of our users, our citizens, et cetera. And I think she feels betrayed because she's now saying, listen, this is not cool. >>You hired us to do a job. We in earnest, went in and tried to solve this problem. And you guys kind of ignored it and you put profit ahead of safety. And I think that is the fundamental crux of this. Now she made a number of really good points in her hearing yesterday and I'll, and we'll try to summarize, I mean, there's a lot of putting advertising revenue ahead of children's safety and, and, and others. The examples they're using are during the 2020 election, they shut down any sort of negative conversations. They would be really proactive about that, but after the election, they turned it back on and you know, we all know what happened on January 6th. So there's sort of, you know, the senators are trying that night. Um, the second thing is she talked about Facebook as a wall garden, and she made the point yesterday at the congressional hearings that Google actually, you can data scientists, anybody can go download all the data that Google has on you. >>You and I can do that. Right? There's that website that we've gone to and you look at all the data Google has and you kind of freak out. Yeah, you can't do that with Facebook, right? It's all hidden. So it's kind of this big black box. I will say this it's interesting. The calls for breaking up big tech, Bernie Sanders tweeted something out yesterday said that, uh, mark Zuckerberg was worth, I don't know. I think 9 billion in 2007 or eight or nine, whatever it was. And he's worth 122 billion today, which of course is mostly tied up in Facebook stock, but still he's got incredible wealth. And then Bernie went on his red it's time to break up big tech. It's time to get people to pay their fair share, et cetera. I'm intrigued that the senators don't have as much vigilance around other industries, whether it's big pharma, food companies addicting children to sugar and the like, but that doesn't let Facebook. >>No, it doesn't, but, but you ha you bring up a good point. You and I were chatting about this yesterday. What the whistleblower is identifying is scary. It's dangerous. And the vast majority, I think of its users, don't understand it. They're not aware of it. Um, and why is big tech being maybe singled out and use as an example here, when, to your point, you know, the addiction to sugar and other things are, uh, have very serious implications. Why is big tech being singled out here as the poster child for what's going wrong? >>Well, and they're comparing it to big tobacco, which is the last thing you want to be compared to as big tobacco. But the, but the, but the comparison is, is valid in that her claim, the whistleblower's claim was that Facebook had data and research that it knew, it knows it's hurting, you know, you know, young people. And so what did it do? It created, you know, Instagram for kids, uh, or it had 600,000. She had another really interesting comment or maybe one of the senators did. Facebook said, look, we scan our records and you know, kids lie. And we, uh, we kicked 600,000 kids off the network recently who were underaged. And the point was made if you have 600,000 people on your network that are underage, you have to go kill. That's a problem. Right? So now the flip side of this, again, trying to be balanced is Facebook shut down Donald Trump and his nonsense, uh, and basically took him off the platform. >>They kind of thwarted all the hunter Biden stuff, right. So, you know, they did do some, they did. It's not like they didn't take any actions. Uh, and now they're up, you know, in front of the senators getting hammered. But I think the Zuckerberg brings a lot of this on himself because he put out an Instagram he's on his yacht, he's drinking, he's having fun. It's like he doesn't care. And he, you know, who knows, he probably doesn't. She also made the point that he owns an inordinate percentage and controls an inordinate percentage of the stock, I think 52% or 53%. So he can kind of do what he wants. And I guess, you know, coming back to public policy, there's a lot of narrative of, I get the billionaires and I get that, you know, the Mo I'm all for billionaires paying more taxes. >>But if you look at the tax policies that's coming out of the house of representatives, it really doesn't hit the billionaires the way billionaires can. We kind of know the way that they protect their wealth is they don't sell and they take out low interest loans that aren't taxed. And so if you look at the tax policies that are coming out, they're really not going after the billionaires. It's a lot of rhetoric. I like to deal in facts. And so I think, I think there's, there's a lot of disingenuous discourse going on right now at the same time, you know, Facebook, they gotta, they gotta figure it out. They have to really do a better job and become more transparent, or they are going to get broken up. And I think that's a big risk to the, to their franchise and maybe Zuckerberg doesn't care. Maybe he just wants to give it a, give it to the government, say, Hey, are you guys are on? It >>Happens. What do you think would happen with Amazon, Google, apple, some of the other big giants. >>That's a really good question. And I think if you look at the history of the us government, in terms of ant anti monopolistic practices, it spent decade plus going after IBM, you know, at the end of the day and at the same thing with Microsoft at the end of the day, and those are pretty big, you know, high profiles. And then you look at, at T and T the breakup of at T and T if you take IBM, IBM and Microsoft, they were slowed down by the U S government. No question I've in particular had his hands shackled, but it was ultimately their own mistakes that caused their problems. IBM misunderstood. The PC market. It gave its monopoly to Intel and Microsoft, Microsoft for its part. You know, it was hugging windows. They tried to do the windows phone to try to jam windows into everything. >>And then, you know, open source came and, you know, the world woke up and said, oh, there's this internet that's built on Linux. You know, that kind of moderated by at T and T was broken up. And then they were the baby bells, and then they all got absorbed. And now you have, you know, all this big, giant telcos and cable companies. So the history of the U S government in terms of adjudicating monopolistic behavior has not been great at the same time. You know, if companies are breaking the law, they have to be held accountable. I think in the case of Amazon and Google and apple, they, a lot of lawyers and they'll fight it. You look at what China's doing. They just cut right to the chase and they say, don't go to the, they don't litigate. They just say, this is what we're doing. >>Big tech, you can't do a, B and C. We're going to fund a bunch of small startups to go compete. So that's an interesting model. I was talking to John Chambers about this and he said, you know, he was flat out that the Western way is the right way. And I believe in, you know, democracy and so forth. But I think if, to answer your question, I think they'll, they'll slow it down in courts. And I think at some point somebody's going to figure out a way to disrupt these big companies. They always do, you know, >>You're right. They always do >>Right. I mean, you know, the other thing John Chambers points out is that he used to be at 1 28, working for Wang. There is no guarantee that the past is prologue that because you succeeded in the past, you're going to succeed in the future. So, so that's kind of the Facebook break up big tech. I'd like to see a little bit more discussion around, you know, things like food companies and the, like >>You bring up a great point about that, that they're equally harmful in different ways. And yet they're not getting the visibility that a Facebook is getting. And maybe that's because of the number of users that it has worldwide and how many people depend on it for communication, especially in the last 18 months when it was one of the few channels we had to connect and engage >>Well. And, and the whistleblower's point, Facebook puts out this marketing narrative that, Hey, look at all this good we're doing in reality. They're all about the, the, the advertising profits. But you know, I'm not sure what laws they're breaking. They're a public company. They're, they're, they have a responsibility to shareholders. So that's, you know, to be continued. The other big news is, and the headline is banks challenge, apple pay over fees for transactions, right? In 2014, when apple came up with apple pay, all the banks lined up, oh, they had FOMO. They didn't want to miss out on this. So they signed up. Now. They don't like the fact that they have to pay apple fees. They don't like the fact that apple introduced its own credit card. They don't like the fact that they have to pay fees on monthly recurring charges on your, you know, your iTunes. >>And so we talked about this and we talk about it a lot on the cube is that, that in, in, in, in his book, seeing digital David, Michelle, or the author talked about Silicon valley broadly defined. So he's including Seattle, Microsoft, but more so Amazon, et cetera, has a dual disruption agenda. They're not only trying to disrupt horizontally the technology industry, but they're also disrupting industry. We talked about this yesterday, apple and finances. The example here, Amazon, who was a bookseller got into cloud and is in grocery and is doing content. And you're seeing these a large companies, traverse industry value chains, which have historically been very insulated right from that type of competition. And it's all because of digital and data. So it's a very, pretty fascinating trends going on. >>Well, from a financial services perspective, we've been seeing the unbundling of the banks for a while. You know, the big guys with B of A's, those folks are clearly concerned about the smaller, well, I'll say the smaller FinTech disruptors for one, but, but the non FinTech folks, the apples of the world, for example, who aren't in that industry who are now to your point, disrupting horizontally and now going after individual specific industries, ultimately I think as consumers we want, whatever is going to make our lives easier. Um, do you ever, ever, I always kind of scratch my nose when somebody doesn't take apple pay, I'm like, you don't take apple pay so easy. It's so easy to make this easy for me. >>Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's going to be really interesting to see how this plays out. I, I do think, um, you know, it begs the question when will banks or Willbanks lose control of the payment systems. They seem to be doing that already with, with alternative forms of payment, uh, whether it's PayPal or Stripe or apple pay. And then crypto is, uh, with, with, with decentralized finance is a whole nother topic of disruption and innovation, >>Right? Well, these big legacy institutions, these organizations, and we've spoke with some of them yesterday, we're going to be speaking with some of them today. They need to be able to be agile, to transform. They have to have the right culture in order to do that. That's the big one. They have to be willing. I think an open to partner with the broader ecosystem to unlock more opportunities. If they want to be competitive and retain the trust of the clients that they've had for so long. >>I think every industry has a digital disruption scenario. We used to always use the, don't get Uber prized example Uber's coming on today, right? And, and there isn't an industry, whether it's manufacturing or retail or healthcare or, or government that isn't going to get disrupted by digital. And I think the unique piece of this is it's it's data, data, putting data at the core. That's what the big internet giants have done. That's what we're hearing. All these incumbents try to do is to put data. We heard this from Coca-Cola yesterday, we're putting data at the core of our company and what we're enabling through automation and other activities, uh, digital, you know, a company. And so, you know, can these, can these giants, these hundred plus year old giants compete? I think they can because they don't have to invent AI. They can work with companies like UI path and embed AI into their business and focused on, on what they do best. Now, of course, Google and Amazon and Facebook and Microsoft there may be going to have the best AI in the world. But I think ultimately all these companies are on a giant collision course, but the market is so huge that I think there's a lot of, >>There's a tremendous amount of opportunity. I think one of the things that was exciting about talking to one, the female CIO of Coca-Cola yesterday, a hundred plus old organization, and she came in with a very transformative, very different mindset. So when you see these, I always appreciate when I say legacy institutions like Coca-Cola or Merck who was on yesterday, blue cross blue shield who's on today, embracing change, cultural change going. We can't do things the way we used to do, because there are competitors in that review mirror who are smaller, they're more nimble, they're faster. They're going to be, they're going to take our customers away from us. We have to deliver this exceptional customer and employee experience. And Coca-Cola is a great example of one that really came in with CA brought in a disruptor in order to align digital with the CEO's thoughts and processes and organization. These are >>Highly capable companies. We heard from the head of finance at, at applied materials today. He was also coming on. I was quite, I mean, this is a applied materials is really strong company. They're talking about a 20 plus billion dollar company with $120 billion market cap. They supply semiconductor equipment and they're a critical component of the semiconductor supply chain. And we all know what's going on in semiconductors today with a huge shortage. So they're a really important company, but I was impressed with, uh, their finance leaders vision on how they're transforming the company. And it was not like, you know, 10 years out, these were not like aspirational goals. This is like 20, 19, 20, 22. Right. And, and really taking costs out of the business, driving new innovation. And, and it's, it was it's, it's refreshing to me Lisa, to see CFOs, you know, typically just bottom line finance focused on these industry transformations. Now, of course, at the end of the day, it's all about the bottom line, but they see technology as a way to get there. In fact, he put technology right in the middle of his stack. I want to ask him about that too. I actually want to challenge him a little bit on it because he had that big Hadoop elephant in the middle and this as an elephant in the room. And that picture, >>The strategy though, that applied materials had, it was very well thought out, but it was also to your point designed to create outcomes year upon year upon year. And I was looking at some of the notes. I took that in year one, alone, 274 automations in production. That's a lot, 150,000 in annual work hours automated 124 use cases they tackled in one year. >>So I want to, I want to poke at that a little bit too. And I, and I did yesterday with some guests. I feel like, well, let's see. So, um, I believe it was, uh, I forget what guests it was, but she said we don't put anything forward that doesn't hit the income statement. Do you remember that? Yes, it was Chevron because that was pushing her. I'm like, well, you're not firing people. Right. And we saw from IDC data today, only 13% of organizations are saying, or, or, or the organizations at 13% of the value was from reduction in force. And a lot of that was probably in plan anyway, and they just maybe accelerated it. So they're not getting rid of headcount, but they're counting hours saved. So that says to me, there's gotta be an normally or often CFOs say, well, it's that soft dollars because we're redeploying folks. But she said, no, it hits the income statement. So I don't, I want to push a little bit and see how they connect the dots, because if you're going to save hours, you're going to apply people to new work. And so either they're generating revenue or cutting costs somewhere. So, so there's another layer that I want to appeal to understand how that hits the income state. >>Let's talk about some of that IDC data. They announced a new white paper this morning sponsored by UI path. And I want to get your perspectives on some of the stats that they talked about. They were painting a positive picture, an optimistic picture. You know, we can't talk about automation without talking about the fear of job loss. They've been in a very optimistic picture for the actual gains over a few year period. What are your thoughts about that? Especially when we saw that stat 41% slowed hiring. >>Yeah. So, well, first of all, it's a sponsored study. So, you know, and of course the conferences, so it's going to be, be positive, but I will say this about IDC. IDC is a company I would put, you know, forest they're similar. They do sponsored research and they're credible. They don't, they, they have the answer to their audience, so they can't just out garbage. And so it has to be defensible. So I give them credit there that they won't just take whatever the vendor wants them to write and then write it. I've used to work there. And I, and I know the culture and there's a great deal of pride in being able to defend what you do. And if the answer doesn't come out, right, sorry, this is the answer. You know, you could pay a kill fee or I dunno how they handle it today. >>But, but, so my point is I think, and I know the people who did that study, many of them, and I think they're pretty credible. I, I thought by the way, you, to your 41% point. So the, the stat was 13% are gonna reduce head count, right? And then there were two in the middle and then 41% are gonna reduce or defer hiring in the future. And this to me, ties into the Erik Brynjolfsson and, and, and, uh, and, and McAfee work. Andy McAfee work from MIT who said, look, initially actually made back up. They said, look at machines, have always replaced humans. Historically this was in their book, the second machine age and what they said was, but for the first time in history, machines are replacing humans with cognitive functions. And this is sort of, we've never seen this before. It's okay. That's cool. >>And their, their research suggests that near term, this is going to be a negative economic impact, sorry, negative impact on jobs and salaries. And we've, we've generally seen this, the average salary, uh, up until recently has been flat in the United States for years and somewhere in the mid fifties. But longterm, their research shows that, and this is consistent. I think with IDC that it's going to help hiring, right? There's going to be a boost buddy, a net job creator. And there's a, there's a, there's a chasm you've got across, which is education training and skill skillsets, which Brynjolfsson and McAfee focused on things that humans can do that machines can't. And you have this long list and they revisited every year. Like they used to be robots. Couldn't walk upstairs. Well, you see robots upstairs all the time now, but it's empathy, it's creativity. It's things like that. >>Contact that humans are, are much better at than machines, uh, even, even negotiations. And, and so, so that's, those are skills. I don't know where you get those skills. Do you teach those and, you know, MBA class or, you know, there's these. So their point is there needs to be a new thought process around education, public policy, and the like, and, and look at it. You can't protect the past from the future, right? This is inevitable. And we've seen this in terms of economic activity around the world countries that try to protect, you know, a hundred percent employment and don't let competition, they tend to fall behind competitively. You know, the U S is, is not of that category. It's an open market. So I think this is inevitable. >>So a lot about upskilling yesterday, and the number of we talked with PWC about, for example, about what they're doing and a big focus on upscaling. And that was part of the IDC data that was shared this morning. For example, I'll share a stat. This was a survey of 518 people. 68% of upscaled workers had higher salaries than before. They also shared 57% of upskilled workers had higher roles and their enterprises then before. So some, again, two point it's a sponsored study, so it's going to be positive, but there, there was a lot of discussion of upskilling yesterday and the importance on that education, because to your point, we can't have one without the other. You can't give these people access to these tools and not educate them on how to use it and help them help themselves become more relevant to the organization. Get rid of the mundane tasks and be able to start focusing on more strategic business outcome, impacting processes. >>We talked yesterday about, um, I use the example of, of SAP. You, you couldn't have predicted SAP would have won the ERP wars in the early to mid 1990s, but if you could have figured out who was going to apply ERP to their businesses, you know what, you know, manufacturing companies and these global firms, you could have made a lot of money in the stock market by, by identifying those that were going to do that. And we used to say the same thing about big data, and the reason I'm bringing all this up is, you know, the conversations with PWC, Deloitte and others. This is a huge automation, a huge services opportunity. Now, I think the difference between this and the big data era, which is really driven by Hadoop is it was big data was so complicated and you had a lack of data scientists. >>So you had to hire these services firms to come in and fill those gaps. I think this is an enormous services opportunity with automation, but it's not because the software is hard to get to work. It's all around the organizational processes, rethinking those as people process technology, it's about the people in the process, whereas Hadoop and the big data era, it was all about the tech and they would celebrate, Hey, this stuff works great. There are very few companies really made it through that knothole to dominate as we've seen with the big internet giants. So you're seeing all these big services companies playing in this market because as I often say, they like to eat at the trough. I know it's kind of a pejorative, but it's true. So it's huge, huge market, but I'm more optimistic about the outcomes for a broader audience with automation than I was with, you know, big data slash Hadoop, because I think the software as much, as much more adoptable, easier to use, and you've got the cloud and it's just a whole different ball game. >>That's certainly what we heard yesterday from Chevron about the ease of use and that you should be able to see results and returns very quickly. And that's something too that UI path talks about. And a lot of their marketing materials, they have a 96, 90 7% retention rate. They've done a great job building their existing customers land and expand as we talked about yesterday, a great use case for that, but they've done so by making things easy, but hearing that articulated through the voice of their customers, fantastic validation. >>So, you know, the cube is like a little, it's like a interesting tip of the spirits, like a probe. And I will tell you when I, when we first started doing the cube and the early part of the last decade, there were three companies that stood out. It was Splunk service now and Tableau. And the reason they stood out is because they were able to get customers to talk about how great they were. And the light bulb went off for us. We were like, wow, these are three companies to watch. You know, I would tell all my wall street friends, Hey, watch these companies. Yeah. And now you see, you know, with Frank Slootman at snowflake, the war, the cat's out of the bag, everybody knows it's there. And they're expecting, you know, great things. The stock is so priced to perfection. You could argue, it's overpriced. >>The reason I'm bringing this up is in terms of customer loyalty and affinity and customer love. You're getting it here. Absolutely this ecosystem. And the reason I bring that up is because there's a lot of questions in the, in the event last night, it was walking around. I saw a couple of wall street guys who came up to me and said, Hey, I read your stuff. It was good. Let's, let's chat. And there's a lot of skepticism on, on wall street right now about this company. Right? And to me, that's, that's good news for you. Investors who want to do some research, because the words may be not out. You know, they, they, they gotta prove themselves here. And to me, the proof is in the customer and the lifetime value of that customer. So, you know, again, we don't give stock advice. We, we kind of give fundamental observations, but this stock, I think it's trading just about 50. >>Now. I don't think it's going to go to 30, unless the market just tanks. It could have some, you know, if that happens, okay, everything will go down. But I actually think, even though this is a richly priced stock, I think the future of this company is very bright. Obviously, if they continue to execute and we're going to hear from the CEO, right? People don't know Daniel, Denise, right? They're like, who is this guy? You know, he started this company and he's from Eastern Europe. And we know he's never have run a public company before, so they're not diving all in, you know? And so that to me is something that really pay attention to, >>And we can unpack that with him later today. And we've got some great customers on the program. You mentioned Uber's here. Spotify is here, applied materials. I feel like I'm announcing something on Saturday night. Live Uber's here. Spotify is here. All right, Dave, looking forward to a great action packed today. We're going to dig more into this and let's get going. Shall we let's do it. All right. For David Dante, I'm Lisa Martin. This is the cube live in Las Vegas. At the Bellagio. We are coming to you presenting UI path forward for come back right away. Our first guest comes up in just a second.

>>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of an AI ops virtual forum brought to you by Broadcom. >>Welcome to the AI ops virtual forum. Finally, some Artan extended to be talking with rich lane now, senior analyst, serving infrastructure and operations professionals at Forrester. Rich. It's great to have you today. >>Thank you for having me. I think it's going to be a really fun conversation to have today. >>It is. We're going to be setting the stage for, with Richard, for the it operations challenges and the need for AI ops. That's kind of our objective here in the next 15 minutes. So rich talk to us about some of the problems that enterprise it operations are facing now in this year, that is 2020 that are going to be continuing into the next year. >>Yeah, I mean, I think we've been on this path for a while, but certainly the last eight months has, uh, has accelerated, uh, this problem and, and brought a lot of things to light that, that people were, you know, they were going through the day to day firefighting as their goal way of life. Uh, it's just not sustainable anymore. You a highly distributed environment or in the need for digital services. And, you know, one of them has been building for a while really is in the digital age, you know, we're providing so many, uh, uh, the, the interactions with customers online. Um, we've, we've added these layers of complexity, um, to applications, to infrastructure, you know, or we're in the, in the cloud or a hybrid or multi-cloud, or do you know you name it using cloud native technologies? We're using legacy stuff. We still have mainframe out there. >>Uh, you know, the, just the, the vast amount of things we have to keep track of now and process and look at the data and signals from, it's just, it's a really untenable for, for humans to do that in silos now, uh, in, in, you know, when you add to that, you know, when companies are so heavily invested in gone on the digital transformation path, and it's accelerated so much in the last, uh, year or so that, you know, we're getting so much of our business in revenue derived from these services that they become core to the business. They're not afterthoughts anymore. It's not just about having a website presence. It's, it's about deriving core business value from the services you're providing to your, through your customers. And a lot of cases, customers you're never going to meet or see at that. So it's even more important to be vigilant. >>And on top of the quality of that service that you're giving them. And then when you think about just the staffing issues we have, there's just not enough bodies to go around it in operations anymore. Um, you know, we're not going to be able to hire, you know, like we did 10 years ago, even. Uh, so that's where we need the systems to be able to bring those operational efficiencies to bear. When we say operational efficiencies, we don't mean, you know, uh, lessening head count because we can't do that. That'd be foolish. What we mean is getting the head count. We have back to burping on and higher level things, you know, working on, uh, technology refreshes and project work that that brings better digital services to customers and get them out of doing these sort of, uh, low, uh, complexity, high volume tasks that they're spending at least 20%, if not more on our third day, each day. So I think that the more we can bring intelligence to bear and automation to take those things out of their hands, the better off we are going forward. >>And I'm sure those workers are wanting to be able to have the time to deliver more value, more strategic value to the organization, to their role. And as you're saying, you know, was the demand for digital services is spiking. It's not going to go down and as consumers, if w if we have another option and we're not satisfied, we're going to go somewhere else. So, so it's really about not just surviving this time right now, it's about how do I become a business that's going to thrive going forward and exceeding expectations that are now just growing and growing. So let's talk about AI ops as a facilitator of collaboration, across business folks, it folks developers, operations, how can it facilitate collaboration, which is even more important these days? >>Yeah. So one of the great things about it is now, you know, years ago, have I gone years, as they say, uh, we would buy a tool to fit each situation. And, you know, someone that worked in network and others who will somebody worked in infrastructure from a, you know, Linux standpoint, have their tool, somebody who's from storage would have their tool. And what we found was we would have an incident, a very high impact incident occur. Everybody would get on the phone, 24 people all be looking at their siloed tool, they're siloed pieces of data. And then we'd still have to try to like link point a to B to C together, you know, just to institutional knowledge. And, uh, there was just ended up being a lot of gaps there because we couldn't understand that a certain thing happening over here was related to an advantage over here. >>Um, now when we bring all that data into one umbrella, one data Lake, whatever we want to call it, a lot of smart analytics to that data, uh, and normalize that data in a way we can contextualize it from, you know, point a to point B all the way through the application infrastructure stack. Now, the conversation changes now, the conversation changes to here is the problem, how are we going to fix it? And we're getting there immediately versus three, four or five hours of, uh, you know, hunting and pecking and looking at things and trying to try to extrapolate what we're seeing across disparate systems. Um, and that's really valuable. And in what that does is now we can change the conversation for measuring things. And in server up time and data center, performance metrics as to how are we performing as a business? How are we overall in, in real time, how are businesses being impacted by service disruption? >>We know how much money losing per minute hour, or what have you, uh, and what that translate lights into brand damage and things along those lines, that people are very interested in that. And, you know, what is the effect of making decisions either brief from a product change side? You know, if we're, we're, we're always changing the mobile apps and we're always changing the website, but do we understand what value that brings us or what negative impact that has? We can measure that now and also sales, marketing, um, they run a campaign here's your, you know, coupon for 12% off today only, uh, what does that drive to us with user engagement? We can measure that now in real time, we don't have to wait for those answers anymore. And I think, you know, having all those data and understanding the cause and effect of things increases, it enhances these feedback loops of we're making decisions as a business, as a whole to make, bring better value to our customers. >>You know, how does that tie into ops and dev initiatives? How does everything that we do if I make a change to the underlying architectures that help move the needle forward, does that hinder things, uh, all these things factor into it. In fact, there into the customer experience, which is what we're trying to do at the end of the day, w w whether operations people like it or not, we are all in the customer experience business now. And we have to realize that and work closer than ever with our business and dev partners to make sure we're delivering the highest level of customer experience we can. >>Uh, customer experience is absolutely critical for a number of reasons. I always kind of think it's inextricably linked with employee experience, but let's talk about long-term value because as organizations and every industry has pivoted multiple times this year and will probably continue to do so for the foreseeable future, for them to be able to get immediate value that let's, let's not just stop the bleeding, but let's allow them to get a competitive advantage and be really become resilient. What are some of the, uh, applications that AI ops can deliver with respect to long-term value for an organization? >>Yeah, and I think that it's, you know, you touched upon this a very important point that there is a set of short term goals you want to achieve, but they're really going to be looking towards 12, 18 months down the road. What is it going to have done for you? And I think this helps framing out for you what's most important because it'd be different for every enterprise. Um, and it also shows the ROI of doing this because there is some, you know, change is going to be involved with things you're gonna have to do. But when you look at the, the, the longer time horizon of what it brings to your business as a whole, uh it's to me, at least it all seems, it seems like a no brainer to not do it. Um, you know, thinking about the basic things, like, you know, faster remediation of, of, uh, client impacting incidents, or maybe, maybe even predictive of sort of detection of these incidents that will affect clients. >>So now you're getting, you know, at scale, you know, it's very hard to do when you have hundreds of thousands of optics of the management that relate to each other, but now you're having letting the machines and the intelligence layer find out where that problem is. You know, it's not the red thing, it's the yellow thing. Go look at that. Um, it's reducing the amount of finger pointing and what have you like resolved between teams now, everybody's looking at the same data, the same sort of, uh, symptoms and like, Oh yeah, okay. This is telling us, you know, here's the root cause you should investigate this huge, huge thing. Um, and, and it's something we never thought we'd get to where, uh, this, this is where we smart enough to tell us these things, but this, again, this is the power of having all the data under one umbrella >>And the smart analytics. >>Um, and I think really, you know, it's a boat. Uh, if you look at where infrastructure and operations people are today, and especially, you know, eight months, nine months, whatever it is into the pandemic, uh, a lot of them are getting really burnt out with doing the same repetitive tasks over and over again. Um, just trying to keep the lights on, you know, we need, we need to extract those things for those people, uh, just because it just makes no sense to do something over and over again, the same remediation step, just we should automate those things. So getting that sort of, uh, you know, drudgery off their hands, if you will, and, and get them into, into all their important things they should be doing, you know, they're really hard to solve problems. That's where the human shine, um, and that's where, you know, having a, you know, really high level engineers, that's what they should be doing, you know, and just being able to do things I >>Think in a much faster, >>In a more efficient manner, when you think about an incident occurring, right. In, in a level, one technician picks that up and he goes and triaged that maybe run some tests. He has a script, >>Uh, or she, uh, and, >>You know, uh, they open a ticket and they enrich the ticket. They call it some log files. They can look up for the servers on it. You're in an hour and a half into an incident before anyone's even looked at it. If we could automate all of that, >>Why wouldn't we, that makes it easier for everyone. Um, >>Yeah. And I really think that's where the future is, is, is, is bringing this intelligent automation to bear, to take, knock down all the little things that consume the really, the most amount of time. When you think about it, if you aggregate it over the course of a quarter or a year, a great deal of your time is spent just doing that minutiae again, why don't we automate that? And we should. So I really think that's, that's where you get to look long-term. I think also the sense of we're going to be able to measure everything in the sense of business KPIs versus just IT-centric KPIs. That's really where we going to get to in the digital age. And I think we waited too long to do that. I think our operations models were all voted. I think, uh, you know, a lot of, a lot of the KPIs we look at today are completely outmoded. They don't really change if you think about it. When we look at the monthly reports over the course of a year, uh, so let's do something different. And now having all this data and the smart analytics, we can do something different. Absolutely. I'm glad >>That you brought up kind of looking at the impact that AI ops can make on, on minutiae and burnout. That's a really huge problem that so many of us are facing in any industry. And we know that there's some amount of this that's going to continue for a while longer. So let's get our let's leverage intelligent automation to your point, because we can to be able to allow our people to not just be more efficient, but to be making a bigger impact. And there's that mental component there that I think is absolutely critical. I do want to ask you what are some of these? So for those folks going, all right, we've got to do this. It makes sense. We see some short-term things that we need. We need short-term value. We need long-term value as you've just walked us through. What are some of the obstacles that you'd say, Hey, be on the lookout for this to wipe it out of the way. >>Yeah. I, I think there's, you know, when you think about the obstacles, I think people don't think about what are big changes for their organization, right? You know, they're, they're going to change process. They're going to change the way teams interact. They're they're going to change a lot of things, but they're all for the better. So what we're traditionally really bad in infrastructure and operations is communication, marketing, a new initiative, right? We don't go out and get our peers agreement to it where the product owner is, you know, and say, okay, this is what it gets you. This is where it changes. People just hear I'm losing something, I'm losing control over something. You're going to get rid of the tools that I have, but I love I've spent years building out perfecting, um, and that's threatening to people and understandably so because people think if I start losing tools, I start losing head count. >>And then, whereas my department at that point, um, but that's not what this is all about. Uh, this, this isn't a replacement for people. This isn't a replacement for teams. This isn't augmentation. This is getting them back to doing the things they should be doing and less of the stuff they shouldn't be doing. And frankly, it's, it's about providing better services. So when in the end, it's counterintuitive to be against it because it's gonna make it operations look better. It's gonna make us show us that we are the thought leaders in delivering digital services that we can, um, constantly be perfecting the way we're doing it. And Oh, by the way, we can help the business be better. Also at the same time. Uh, I think some of the mistakes people really don't make, uh, really do make, uh, is not looking at their processes today, trying to figure out what they're gonna look like tomorrow when we bring in advanced automation and intelligence, uh, but also being prepared for what the future state is, you know, in talking to one company, they were like, yeah, we're so excited for this. >>Uh, we, we got rid of our old 15 year old laundering system and the same day we stepped a new system. Uh, one problem we had though, was we weren't ready for the amount of incidents that had generated on day one. And it wasn't because we did anything wrong or the system was wrong or what have you. It did the right thing actually, almost too. Well, what it did is it uncovered a lot of really small incidents through advanced correlations. We didn't know we had, so there were things lying out there that were always like, huh, that's weird. That system acts strange sometimes, but we can never pin it down. We found all of those things, which is good. It goes, but it kind of made us all kind of sit back and think, and then our readership are these guys doing their job. Right? >>And then we had to go through an evolution of, you know, just explaining we were 15 years behind from a visibility standpoint to our environment, but technologies that we deployed in applications had moved ahead and modernized. So this is like a cautionary tale of falling too far behind from a sort of a monitoring and intelligence and automation standpoint. Um, so I thought that was a really good story for something like, think about as Eagle would deploy these modern systems. But I think if he really, you know, the marketing to people, so they're not threatened, I think thinking about your process and then what's, what's your day one and then look like, and then what's your six and 12 months after that looks like, I think settling all that stuff upfront just sets you up for success. >>All right. Rich, take us home here. Let's summarize. How can clients build a business case for AI ops? What do you recommend? >>Yeah. You know, I actually get that question a lot. It's usually, uh, almost always the number one, uh, question in, in, um, you know, webinars like this and conversations that, that the audience puts in. So I wouldn't be surprised, but if that was true, uh, going forward from this one, um, yeah, people are like, you know, Hey, we're all in. We want to do this. We know this is the way forward, but the guy who writes the checks, the CIO, the VP of ops is like, you know, I I've signed lots of checks over the years for tools wise is different. Um, and when I guide people to do is to sit back and, and start doing some hard math, right. Uh, one of the things that resonates with the leadership is dollars and cents. It's not percentages. So saying, you know, it's, it brings us a 63% reduction and MTTR is not going to resonate. >>Uh, Oh, even though it's a really good number, you know, uh, I think what it is, you have to put it in terms of avoid, if we could avoid that 63%. Right. You know, um, what does that mean for our, our digital services as far as revenue, right. We know that every hour system down, I think, uh, you know, typically in the market, you see is about $500,000 an hour for enterprise. We'll add that up over the course of the year. What are you losing in revenue? Add to that brand damage loss of customers, you know, uh, Forrester puts out a really big, uh, casino, um, uh, customer experience index every year that measures that if you're delivering good Udall services, bad digital services, if you could raise that up, what does that return to you in revenue? And that's a key thing. And then you just look at the, the, uh, hours of lost productivity. >>I call it, I might call it something else, but I think it's a catchy name. Meaning if a core internal system is down say, and you know, you have a customer service desk of a thousand customer service people, and they can't do that look up or fix that problem for clients for an hour. How much money does that lose you? And you multiply it out. You know, average customer service desk person makes X amount an hour times this much time. This many times it happens. Then you start seeing the real, sort of a power of AI ops for this incident avoidance, or at least lowering the impact of these incidents. And people have put out in graphs and spreadsheets and all this, and then I'm doing some research around this actually to, to, to put out something that people can use to say, the project funds itself in six to 12 months, it's paid for itself. And then after that it's returning money to the business. Why would you not do that? And when you start framing the conversation, that way, the little light bulb turn on for the people that sign the checks. For sure. >>That's great advice for folks to be thinking about. I loved how you talked about the 63% reduction in something. I think that's great. What does it impact? How does it impact the revenue for the organization? If we're avoiding costs here, how do we drive up revenue? So having that laser focus on revenue is great advice for folks in any industry, looking to build a business case for AI ops. I think you set the stage for that rich beautifully, and you were right. This was a fun conversation. Thank you for your time. Thank you. And thanks for watching >>From around the globe with digital coverage. >>Welcome back to the Broadcom AI ops, virtual forum, Lisa Martin here talking with Eastman Nasir global product management at Verizon. We spent welcome back. >>Hi. Hello. Uh, what a pleasure. >>So 2020 the year of that needs no explanation, right? The year of massive challenges and wanting to get your take on the challenges that organizations are facing this year as the demand to deliver digital products and services has never been higher. >>Yeah. So I think this is something it's so close to all the far far, right? It's, uh, it's something that's impacted the whole world equally. And I think regardless of which industry you rent, you have been impacted by this in one form or the other, and the ICT industry, the information and communication technology industry, you know, Verizon being really massive player in that whole arena. It has just been sort of struck with this massive consummation we have talked about for a long time, we have talked about these remote surgery capabilities whereby you've got patients in Kenya who are being treated by an expert sitting in London or New York, and also this whole consciousness about, you know, our carbon footprint and being environmentally conscious. This pandemic has taught us all of that and brought us to the forefront of organization priorities, right? The demand. I think that's, that's a very natural consequence of everybody sitting at home. >>And the only thing that can keep things still going is this data communication, right? But I wouldn't just say that that is, what's kind of at the heart of all of this. Just imagine if we are to realize any of these targets of the world is what leadership is setting for themselves. Hey, we have to be carbon neutral by X year as a country, as a geography, et cetera, et cetera. You know, all of these things require you to have this remote working capabilities, this remote interaction, not just between humans, but machine to machine interactions. And this there's a unique value chain, which is now getting created that you've got people who are communicating with other people or communicating with other machines, but the communication is much more. I wouldn't even use the term real time because we've used real time for voice and video, et cetera. >>We're talking low latency, microsecond decision-making that can either cut somebody's, you know, um, our trees or that could actually go and remove the tumor, that kind of stuff. So that has become a reality. Everybody's asking for it, remote learning, being an extremely massive requirement where, you know, we've had to enable these, uh, these virtual classrooms ensuring the type of connectivity, ensuring the type of type of privacy, which is just so, so critical. You can't just have everybody in a go on the internet and access a data source. You have to be concerned about the integrity and security of that data as the foremost. So I think all of these things, yes, we have not been caught off guard. We were pretty forward-looking in our plans and our evolution, but yes, it's fast track the journey that we would probably believe we would have taken in three years. It has brought that down to two quarters where we've had to execute them. >>Right. Massive acceleration. All right. So you articulated the challenges really well. And a lot of the realities that many of our viewers are facing. Let's talk now about motivations, AI ops as a tool, as a catalyst for helping organizations overcome those challenges. >>So yeah. Now on that I said, you can imagine, you know, it requires microsecond decision-making which human being on this planet can do microsecond decision-making on complex network infrastructure, which is impacting end user applications, which have multitudes of effect. You know, in real life, I use the example of a remote surgeon. Just imagine that, you know, even because of you just use your signal on the quality of that communication for that microsecond, it could be the difference between killing somebody in saving somebody's life. And it's not predictable. We talk about autonomous vehicles. Uh, we talk about this transition to electric vehicles, smart motorways, et cetera, et cetera, in federal environment, how is all of that going to work? You have so many different components coming in. You don't just have a network and security anymore. You have software defined networking. That's coming, becoming a part of that. >>You have mobile edge computing that is rented for the technologies. 5g enables we're talking augmented reality. We're talking virtual reality. All of these things require that resources and why being carbon conscious. We told them we just want to build a billion data centers on this planet, right? We, we have to make sure that resources are given on demand and the best way of resources can be given on demand and could be most efficient is that the thing is being made at million microsecond and those resources are accordingly being distributed, right? If you're relying on people, sipping their coffees, having teas, talking to somebody else, you know, just being away on holiday. I don't think we're going to be able to handle that one that we have already stepped into. Verizon's 5g has already started businesses on that transformational journey where they're talking about end user experience personalization. >>You're going to have events where people are going to go, and it's going to be three-dimensional experiences that are purely customized for you. How, how does that all happen without this intelligence sitting there and a network with all of these multiple layers? So spectrum, it doesn't just need to be intuitive. Hey, this is my private IP traffic. This is public traffic. You know, it has to not be in two, or this is an application that I have to prioritize over another task to be intuitive to the criticality and the context of those transactions. Again, that's surgeons. So be it's much more important than postman setting and playing a video game. >>I'm glad that you think that that's excellent. Let's go into some specific use cases. What are some of the examples that you gave? Let's kind of dig deeper into some of the, what you think are the lowest hanging fruit for organizations kind of pan industry to go after. >>Excellent. Brian, and I think this, this like different ways to look at the lowest hanging fruit, like for somebody like revising who is a managed services provider, you know, very comprehensive medicines, but we obviously have food timing, much lower potentially for some of our customers who want to go on that journey. Right? So for them to just go and try and harness the power of the foods might be a bit higher hanging, but for somebody like us, the immediate ones would be to reduce the number of alarms that are being generated by these overlay services. You've got your basic network, then you've got your whole software defined networking on top of that, you have your hybrid clouds, you have your edge computing coming on top of that. You know? So all of that means if there's an outage on one device on the network, I want to make this very real for everybody, right? >>It's like device and network does not stop all of those multiple applications or monitoring tools from raising and raising thousands of alarm and everyone, one capacity. If people are attending to those thousands of alarms, it's like you having a police force and there's a burglary in one time and the alarm goes off and 50 bags. How, how are you kind of make the best use of your police force? You're going to go investigate 50 bags or do you want to investigate where the problem is? So it's as real as that, I think that's the first wins where people can save so much cost, which is coming from being wasted and resources running around, trying to figure stuff out immediately. I'm tied this with network and security network and security is something which has you did even the most, you know, I mean single screens in our engineering, well, we took it to have network experts, separate people, security experts, separate people to look for different things, but there are security events that can impact the performance of a network. >>And then just drop the case on the side of et cetera, which could be falsely attributed to the metric. And then if you've got multiple parties, which are then the chapter clear stakeholders, you can imagine the blame game that goes on finding fingers, taking names, not taking responsibility that don't has all this happened. This is the only way to bring it all together to say, okay, this is what takes priority. If there's an event that has happened, what is its correlation to the other downstream systems, devices, components, and these are applications. And then subsequently, you know, like isolating it to the right cost where you can most effectively resolve that problem. Thirdly, I would say on demand, virtualized resource, virtualized resources, the heart and soul, the spirit of status that you can have them on demand. So you can automate the allocation of these resources based on customer's consumption their peaks, their cramps, all of that comes in. >>You see, Hey, typically on a Wednesday, the traffic was up significantly for this particular application, you know, going to this particular data center, you could have this automated system, uh, which is just providing those resources, you know, on demand. And so it is to have a much better commercial engagement with customers and just a much better service assurance model. And then one more thing on top of that, which is very critical is that as I was saying, giving that intelligence to the networks to start having context of the criticality of a transaction, that doesn't make sense to them. You can't have that because for that, you need to have this, you know, monkey their data. You need to have multi-cam system, which are monitoring and controlling different aspects of your overall end user application value chain to be communicating with each other. And, you know, that's the only way to sort of achieve that goal. And that only happens with AI. It's not possible >>So it was when you clearly articulated some obvious, low hanging fruit and use cases that organizations can go after. Let's talk now about some of the considerations, you talked about the importance of a network and AI ops, the approach I assume, needs to be modular support needs to be heterogeneous. Talk to us about some of those key considerations that you would recommend. >>Absolutely. So again, basically starting with the network, because if there's, if the metrics sitting at the middle of all of this is not working, then things can communicate with each other, right? And the cloud doesn't work, nothing metal. That's the hardest part of this, but that's the frequency. When you talk about machine to machine communication or IOT, it's just the biggest transformation of the span of every company is going for IOT now to drive those costs, efficiencies, and had, something's got some experience, the integrity of the topic karma, right? The security, integrity of that. How do you maintain integrity of your data beyond just a secure network components? That is true, right? That's where you're getting to the whole arena blockchain technologies, where you have to use digital signatures or barcodes that machine then, and then an intelligence system is automatically able to validate and verify the integrity of the data and the commands that are being executed by those end-user told them what I need to tell them that. >>So it's IOT machines, right? That is paramount. And if anybody is not keeping that into their equation, that in its own self is any system that is therefore maintaining the integrity of your commands and your hold that sits on those, those machines. Right? Second, you have your network. You need to have any else platform, which is able to restless all the fast network information, et cetera. And coupled with that data integrity piece, because for the management, ultimately they need to have a coherent view of the analytics, et cetera, et cetera. They need to know where the problems are again, right? So let's say if there's a problem with the integrity of the commands that are being executed by the machine, that's a much bigger problem than not being able to communicate with that machine and the best thing, because you'd rather not talk to the machine or have to do anything if it's going to start doing wrong things. >>So I think that's where it is. It's very intuitive. It's not true. You have to have subsequently if you have some kind of faith and let me use that use case self autonomous vehicles. Again, I think we're going to see in the next five years, because he's smart with the rates, et cetera, it won't separate autonomous cars. It's much more efficient, it's much more space, et cetera, et cetera. So within that equation, you're going to have systems which will be specialists in looking at aspects and transactions related to those systems. For example, in autonomous moving vehicles, brakes are much more important than the Vipers, right? So this kind of intelligence, it will be multiple systems who have to sit, N nobody has to, one person has to go in one of these systems. I think these systems should be open source enough that they, if you were able to integrate them, right, if something's sitting in the cloud, you were able to integrate for that with obviously the regard of the security and integrity of your data that has to traverse from one system to the other extremely important. >>So I'm going to borrow that integrity theme for a second, as we go into our last question, and that is this kind of take a macro look at the overall business impact that AI ops can help customers make. I'm thinking of, you know, the integrity of teams aligning business in it, which we probably can't talk about enough. We're helping organizations really effectively measure KPIs that deliver that digital experience that all of us demanding consumers expect. What's the overall impact. What would you say in summary fashion? >>So I think the overall impact is a lot of costs. That's customized and businesses gives the time to the time of enterprises. Defense was inevitable. It's something that for the first time, it will come to life. And it's something that is going to, you know, start driving cost efficiencies and consciousness and awareness within their own business, which is obviously going to have, you know, it domino kind of an effect. So one example being that, you know, you have problem isolation. I talked about network security, this multi-layers architecture, which enables this new world of 5g, um, at the heart of all of it, it has to identify the problem to the source, right? Not be bogged down by 15 different things that are going wrong. What is causing those 15 things to go wrong, right? That speed to isolation in its own sense can make millions and millions of dollars to organizations after we organize it. Next one is obviously overall impacted customer experience. Uh, 5g was given out of your customers, expecting experiences from you, even if you're not expecting to deliver them in 2021, 2022, it would have customers asking for those experience or walking away, if you do not provide those experience. So it's almost like a business can do nothing every year. They don't have to reinvest if they just want to die on the line, businesses want remain relevant. >>Businesses want to adopt the latest and greatest in technology, which enables them to, you know, have that superiority and continue it. So from that perspective that continue it, he will read that they write intelligence systems that tank rationalizing information and making decisions supervised by people, of course were previously making some of those. >>That was a great summary because you're right, you know, with how demanding consumers are. We don't get what we want quickly. We churn, right? We go somewhere else and we could find somebody that can meet those expectations. So it has been thanks for doing a great job of clarifying the impact and the value that AI ops can bring to organizations that sounds really now is we're in this even higher demand for digital products and services, which is not going away. It's probably going to only increase it's table stakes for any organization. Thank you so much for joining me today and giving us your thoughts. >>Pleasure. Thank you. We'll be right back with our next segment. >>Digital applications and services are more critical to a positive customer and employee experience than ever before. But the underlying infrastructure that supports these apps and services has become increasingly complex and expanding use of multiple clouds, mobile and microservices, along with modern and legacy infrastructure can make it difficult to pinpoint the root cause when problems occur, it can be even more difficult to determine the business impact your problems that occur and resolve them efficiently. AI ops from Broadcom can help first by providing 360 degree visibility, whether you have hybrid cloud or a cloud native AI ops from Broadcom provides a clear line of sight, including apt to infrastructure and network visibility across hybrid environments. Second, the solution gives you actionable insights by correlating an aggregating data and applying AI and machine learning to identify root causes and even predict problems before users are impacted. Third AI ops from Broadcom provides intelligent automation that identifies potential solutions when problems occur applied to the best one and learns from the effectiveness to improve response in case the problem occurs. Again, finally, the solution enables organizations to achieve digit with jelly by providing feedback loops across development and operations to allow for continuous improvements and innovation through these four capabilities. AI ops from Broadcom can help you reduce service outages, boost, operational efficiency, and effectiveness and improve customer and employee experience. To learn more about AI ops from Broadcom, go to broadcom.com/ai ops from around the globe. >>It's the cube with digital coverage of AI ops virtual forum brought to you by Broadcom. >>Welcome back to the AI ops virtual forum, Lisa Martin here with Srinivasan, Roger Rajagopal, the head of product and strategy at Broadcom. Raj, welcome here, Lisa. I'm excited for our conversation. So I wanted to dive right into a term that we hear all the time, operational excellence, right? We hear it everywhere in marketing, et cetera, but why is it so important to organizations as they head into 2021? And tell us how AI ops as a platform can help. >>Yeah. Well, thank you. First off. I wanna, uh, I want to welcome our viewers back and, uh, I'm very excited to, uh, to share, um, uh, more info on this topic. You know, uh, here's what we believe as we work with large organizations, we see all our organizations are poised to get out of the, uh, the pandemic and look for a brood for their own business and helping customers get through this tough time. So fiscal year 2021, we believe is going to be a combination of, uh, you know, resiliency and agility at the, at the same time. So operational excellence is critical because the business has become more digital, right? There are going to be three things that are going to be more sticky. Uh, you know, remote work is going to be more sticky, um, cost savings and efficiency is going to be an imperative for organizations and the continued acceleration of digital transformation of enterprises at scale is going to be in reality. So when you put all these three things together as a, as a team that is, uh, you know, that's working behind the scenes to help the businesses succeed, operational excellence is going to be, make or break for organizations, >>Right with that said, if we kind of strip it down to the key capabilities, what are those key capabilities that companies need to be looking for in an AI ops solution? >>Yeah, you know, so first and foremost, AI ops means many things to many, many folks. So let's take a moment to simply define it. The way we define AI ops is it's a system of intelligence, human augmented system that brings together full visibility across app infra and network elements that brings together disparate data sources and provides actionable intelligence and uniquely offers intelligent automation. Now, the, the analogy many folks draw is the self-driving car. I mean, we are in the world of Teslas, uh, but you know, uh, but self-driving data center is it's too far away, right? Autonomous systems are still far away. However, uh, you know, application of AI ML techniques to help deal with volume velocity, veracity of information, uh, is, is critical. So that's how we look at AI ops and some of the key capabilities that we, uh, that we, uh, that we work with our customers to help them on our own for eight years. >>Right? First one is eyes and ears. What we call full stack observability. If you do not know what is happening in your systems, uh, you know, that that serve up your business services. It's going to be pretty hard to do anything, uh, in terms of responsiveness, right? So from stack observability, the second piece is what we call actionable insights. So when you have disparate data sources, tools, sprawls data coming at you from, uh, you know, uh, from a database systems, it systems customer management systems, ticketing systems. How do you find the needle from the haystack? And how do you respond rapidly from a myriad of problems as CEO of red? The third area is what we call intelligent automation. Well, identifying the problem to act on is important, and then acting on automating that and creating, uh, a recommendation system where, uh, you know, you can be proactive about it is even more important. And finally, all of this focuses on efficiency. What about effectiveness? Effectiveness comes when you create a feedback loop, when what happens in production is related to your support systems and your developers so that they can respond rapidly. So we call that continuous feedback. So these are the four key capabilities that, uh, you know, uh, you should look for in an AI ops system. And that's what we offer as well. >>Russia, there's four key capabilities that businesses need to be looking for. I'm wondering how those help to align business. And it it's, again like operational excellence. It's something that we talk about a lot is the alignment of business. And it a lot more challenging, easier said than done, right. But I want you to explain how can AI ops help with that alignment and align it outputs to business outcomes? >>Yeah. So, you know, one of the things, uh, I'm going to say something that is, uh, that is, uh, that is simple, but, but, but this harder, but alignment is not on systems alignment is with people, right? So when people align, when organizations align, when cultures align, uh, dramatic things can happen. So in the context of AI ops VC, when, when SRE is aligned with the DevOps engineers and information architects and, uh, uh, you know, it operators, uh, you know, they enable organizations to reduce the gap between intent and outcome or output and outcome that said, uh, you know, these personas need mechanisms to help them better align, right. Help them better visualize, see the, you know, what we call single source of truth, right? So there are four key things that I want to call out. When we work with large enterprises, we find that customer journey alignment with the, you know, what we call it systems is critical. >>So how do you understand your business imperatives and your customer journey goals, whether it is car to a purchase or whether it is, uh, you know, bill shock scenarios and Swan alignment on customer journey to your it systems is one area that you can reduce the gap. The second area is how do you create a scenario where your teams can find problems before your customers do right outage scenarios and so on. So that's the second area of alignment. The third area of alignment is how can you measure business impact driven services? Right? There are several services that an organization offers versus an it system. Some services are more critical to the business than others, and these change in a dynamic environment. So how do you, how do you understand that? How do you measure that and how, how do you find the gaps there? So that's the third area of alignment that we, that we help and last but not least there are, there are things like NPS scores and others that, that help us understand alignment, but those are more long-term. But in the, in the context of, uh, you know, operating digitally, uh, you want to use customer experience and business, uh, you know, a single business outcome, uh, as a, as a key alignment factor, and then work with your systems of engagement and systems of interaction, along with your key personas to create that alignment. It's a people process technology challenge. >>So, whereas one of the things that you said there is that it's imperative for the business to find a problem before a customer does, and you talked about outages there, that's always a goal for businesses, right. To prevent those outages, how can AI ops help with that? Yeah, >>So, you know, outages, uh, talk, you know, go to resiliency of a system, right? And they also go to, uh, uh, agility of the same system, you know, if you're a customer and if you're whipping up your mobile app and it takes more than three milliseconds, uh, you know, you're probably losing that customer, right. So outages mean different things, you know, and there's an interesting website called down detector.com that actually tracks all the old pages of publicly available services, whether it's your bank or your, uh, you know, tele telecom service or a mobile service and so on and so forth. In fact, the key question around outages for, from, uh, from, uh, you know, executives are the question of, are you ready? Right? Are you ready to respond to the needs of your customers and your business? Are you ready to rapidly resolve an issue that is impacting customer experience and therefore satisfaction? >>Are you creating a digital trust system where customers can be, you know, um, uh, you know, customers can feel that their information is secure when they transact with you, all of these, getting into the notion of resiliency and outages. Now, you know, one of the things that, uh, that I, I often, uh, you know, work with customers around, you know, would that be find as the radius of impact is important when you deal with outages? What I mean by that is problems occur, right? How do you respond? How quickly do you take two seconds, two minutes, 20 minutes, two hours, 20 hours, right? To resolve the problem that radius of impact is important. That's where, you know, you have to bring a gain people, process technology together to solve that. And the key thing is you need a system of intelligence that can aid your teams, you know, look at the same set of parameters so that you can respond faster. That's the key here. >>We look at digital transformation at scale. Raj, how does AI ops help influence that? >>You know, um, I'm going to take a slightly long-winded way to answer this question. See when it comes to digital transformation at scale, the focus on business purpose and business outcome becomes extremely critical. And then the alignment of that to your digital supply chain, right, are the, are the, are the key factors that differentiate winners in the, in their digital transformation game? Really, what we have seen, uh, with, with winners is they operate very differently. Like for example, uh, you know, Nike matures, its digital business outcomes by shoes per second, right? Uh, Apple by I-phones per minute, Tesla by model threes per month, are you getting this, getting it right? I mean, you want to have a clear business outcome, which is a measure of your business, uh, in effect, I mean, ENC, right? Which, which, uh, um, my daughter use and I use very well. >>Right. Uh, you know, uh, they measure by revenue per hour, right? I mean, so these are key measures. And when you have a key business outcome measure like that, you can everything else, because you know what these measures, uh, you know, uh, for a bank, it may be deposits per month, right now, when you move money from checking account to savings account, or when you do direct deposits, those are, you know, banks need liquidity and so on and so forth. But, you know, the, the key thing is that single business outcome has a Starburst effect inside the it organization that touches a single money moment from checking a call to savings account can touch about 75 disparate systems internally. Right? So those think about it, right? I mean, all, all we're doing is moving money from checking account a savings account. Now that goats into a it production system, there are several applications. >>There is a database, there is, there are infrastructures, there are load balancers that are webs. You know, you know, the web server components, which then touches your, your middleware component, which is a queuing system, right. Which then touches your transactional system. Uh, and, uh, you know, which may be on your main frames, what we call mobile to mainframe scenario, right? And we are not done yet. Then you have a security and regulatory compliance system that you have to touch a fraud prevention system that you have to touch, right? A state department regulation that you may have to meet and on and on and on, right? This is the chat that it operations teams face. And when you have millions of customers transacting, right, suddenly this challenge cannot be managed by human beings alone. So therefore you need a system of intelligence that augments human intelligence and acts as your, you know, your, your eyes and ears in a way to, to point pinpoint where problems are. >>Right. So digital transformation at scale really requires a very well thought out AI ops system, a platform, an open extensible platform that, uh, you know, uh, that is heterogeneous in nature because there's tools, products in organizations. There is a lot of databases in systems. There are millions of, uh, uh, you know, customers and hundreds of partners and vendors, you know, making up that digital supply chain. So, you know, AI ops is at the center of an enabling an organization achieve digital op you know, transformation at scale last but not least. You need continuous feedback loop. Continuous feedback loop is the ability for a production system to inform your dev ops teams, your finance teams, your customer experience teams, your cost modeling teams about what is going on so that they can so that they can reduce the intent, come gap. >>All of this need to come together, what we call BizOps. >>That was a great example of how you talked about the Starburst effect. I actually never thought about it in that way, when you give the banking example, but what you should is the magnitude of systems. The fact that people alone really need help with that, and why intelligent automation and AI ops can be transformative and enable that scale. Raj, it's always a pleasure to talk with you. Thanks for joining me today. And we'll be right back with our next segment. Welcome back to the AI ops virtual forum. We've heard from our guests about the value of AI ops and why and how organizations are adopting AI ops platforms. But now let's see AI ops inaction and get a practical view of AI ops to deep Dante. The head of AI ops at Broadcom is now going to take you through a quick demo. >>Hello. So they've gotta head off AI ops and automation here. What I'm going to do today is talk through some of the key capabilities and differentiators of Broadcom's CII ops solution in this solution, which can be delivered on cloud or on-prem. We bring a variety of metric alarm log and applauded data from multiple sources, EPM, NetApps, and infrastructure monitoring tools to provide a single point of observability and control. Let me start where our users mostly stock key enterprises like FSI, telcos retailers, et cetera, do not manage infrastructure or applications without having a business context. At the end of the day, they offer business services governed by SLS service level objectives and SLI service level indicators are service analytics, which can scale to a few thousand services, lets our customers create and monitor the services as per their preference. They can create a hierarchy of services based on their business practice. >>For example, here, the sub services are created based on functional subsistence for certain enterprises. It could be based on location. Users can import these services from their favorite CMDB. What's important to note that not all services are born equal. If you are a modern bank, you may want to prioritize tickets coming from digital banking, for example, and this application lets you rank them as per the KPI of your choice. We can source the availability, not merely from the state of the infrastructure, whether they're running or not. But from the SLS that represent the state of the application, when it comes to triaging issues related to the service, it is important to have a complete view of the topology. The typology can show both east-west elements from mobile to mainframe or not South elements in a network flow. This is particularly relevant for a large enterprise who could be running the systems of engagement on the cloud and system of records on mainframe inside the firewall here, you can see that the issue is related to the mainframe kick server. >>You can expand to see the actual alarm, which is sourced from the mainframe operational intelligence. Similarly, clicking on network will give the hub and spoke view of the network devices, the Cisco switches and routers. I can click on the effected router and see all the details Broadcom's solution stores, the ontological model of the typology in the form of a journal graph where one can not only view the current state of the typology, but the past as well, talking of underlying data sources, the solution uses best of the pre data stores for structured and unstructured data. We have not only leveraged the power of open source, but have actively contributed back to the community. One of the key innovations is evident in our dashboarding framework because we have enhanced the open source Grafana technology to support these diverse data sources here. You can see a single dashboard representing applications to infrastructure, to mainframe again, sourcing a variety of data from these sources. >>When we talk to customers, one of the biggest challenges that they face today is related to alarms because of a proliferation of tools. They are currently drowning in an ocean of hundreds and thousands of alarms. This increases the Elmont support cost to tens of dollars per ticket, and also affects LTO efficiency leading to an average of five to six hours of meantime to resolution here is where we have the state of the art innovation utilizing the power of machine learning and ontology to arrive at the root cause we not only clusterize alarms based on text, but employ the technique of 41st. We look at the topology then at the time window duplicate text based on NLP. And lastly learn from continuous training of the model to deduce what we call situations. This is an example of a situation. As you can see, we provide a time-based evidence of how things unfolded and arrive at a root cause. >>Lastly, the solution provides a three 60 degree closed loop remediation either through a ticketing system or by direct invocation of automation actions instead of firing hard-coded automation runbooks for certain conditions, the tool leverage is machine learning to rank automation actions based on past heuristics. That's why we call it intelligent automation to summarize AI ops from Broadcom helps you achieve operational excellence through full stack observability, coupled with AIML that applies across modern hybrid cloud environments, as well as legacy ones uniquely. It ties these insights with intelligent automation to improve customer experience. Thank you for watching from around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AI ops virtual forum brought to you by Broadcom. >>Welcome to our final segment today. So we've discussed today. The value that AI ops will bring to organizations in 2021, we'll discuss that through three different perspectives. And so now we want to bring those perspectives together and see if we can get a consensus on where AI ops needs to go for folks to be successful with it in the future. So bringing back some folks Richland is back with us. Senior analysts, serving infrastructure and operations professionals at Forrester smartness here is also back in global product management at Verizon and Srinivasan, Reggie Gopaul head of product and strategy at Broadcom guys. Great to have you back. So let's jump in and rich, we're going to, we're going to start with you, but we are going to get all three of you, a chance to answer the questions. So we've talked about why organizations should adopt AI ops, but what happens if they choose not to what challenges would they face? Basically what's the cost of organizations doing nothing >>Good question, because I think in operations for a number of years, we've kind of stand stood, Pat, where we are, where we're afraid change things sometimes, or we just don't think about a tooling as often. The last thing to change because we're spending so much time doing project work and modernization and fighting fires on a daily basis. >>Problem is going to get worse. If we do nothing, >>You know, we're building new architectures like containers and microservices, which means more things to mind and keep running. Um, we're building highly distributed systems. We're moving more and more into this hybrid world, a multi-cloud world, uh, it's become over-complicate and I'll give a short anecdote. I think, eliminate this. Um, when I go to conferences and give speeches, it's all infrastructure operations people. And I say, you know, how many people have three X, five X, you know, uh, things to monitor them. They had, you know, three years ago, two years ago, and everyone's saying how many people have hired more staff in that time period, zero hands go up. That's the gap we have to fill. And we have to fill that through better automation, more intelligent systems. It's the only way we're going to be able to fill back out. >>What's your perspective, uh, if organizations choose not to adopt AI ops. Yeah. So I'll do that. Yeah. So I think it's, I would just relate it to a couple of things that probably everybody >>Tired off lately and everybody can relate to. And this would resonate that we have 5g, which is all set to transform the world. As we know it, I don't have a lot of communication with these smart cities, smart communities, IOT, which is going to make us pivotal to the success of businesses. And as you've seen with this call with, you know, transformation of the world, that there's a, there's a much bigger cost consciousness out there. People are trying to become much more, forward-looking much more sustainable. And I think at the heart of all of this, that the necessity that you have intelligent systems, which are bastardizing more than enough information that previously could've been overlooked because if you don't measure engagement, not going right. People not being on the same page of this using two examples or hundreds of things, you know, that play a part in things, but not coming together in the best possible way. So I think it has an absolute necessity to drive those cost efficiencies rather than, you know, left right and center laying off people who are like 10 Mattel to your business and have a great tribal knowledge of your business. So to speak, you can drive these efficiencies through automating a lot of those tasks that previously were being very manually intensive or resource intensive. And you could allocate those resources towards doing much better things, which let's be very honest going into 20, 21 after what we've seen with 2020, it's going to be mandate treat. >>And so Raj, I saw you shaking your head there when he was mom was sharing his thoughts. What are your thoughts about that sounds like you agree. Yeah. I mean, uh, you know, uh, to put things in perspective, right? I mean we're firmly in the digital economy, right? Digital economy, according to the Bureau of economic analysis is 9% of the U S GDP. Just, you know, think about it in, in, in, in, in the context of the GDP, right? It's only ranked lower, slightly lower than manufacturing, which is at 11.3% GDP and slightly about finance and insurance, which is about seven and a half percent GDP. So the digital economy is firmly in our lives, right. And as Huisman was talking about it, you know, software eats the world and digital, operational excellence is critical for customers, uh, to, uh, you know, to, uh, to drive profitability and growth, uh, in the digital economy. >>It's almost, you know, the key is digital at scale. So when, uh, when rich talks about some of the challenges and when Huseman highlights 5g as an example, those are the things that, that, that come to mind. So to me, what is the cost or perils of doing nothing? You know, uh, it's not an option. I think, you know, more often than not, uh, you know, C-level execs are asking head of it and they are key influencers, a single question, are you ready? Are you ready in the context of addressing spikes in networks because of the pandemic scenario, are you ready in the context of automating away toil? Are you ready to respond rapidly to the needs of the digital business? I think AI ops is critical. >>That's a great point. Roger, where does stick with you? So we got kind of consensus there, as you said, wrapping it up. This is basically a, not an option. This is a must to go forward for organizations to be successful. So let's talk about some quick wins, or as you talked about, you know, organizations and sea levels asking, are you ready? What are some quick wins that that organizations can achieve when they're adopting AI? >>You know, um, immediate value. I think I would start with a question. How often do your customers find problems in your digital experience before you do think about that? Right. You know, if you, if you, you know, there's an interesting web, uh, website, um, uh, you know, down detector.com, right? I think, uh, in, in Europe there is an equal amount of that as well. It ha you know, people post their digital services that are down, whether it's a bank that, uh, you know, customers are trying to move money from checking account, the savings account and the digital services are down and so on and so forth. So some and many times customers tend to find problems before it operations teams do. So a quick win is to be proactive and immediate value is visibility. If you do not know what is happening in your complex systems that make up your digital supply chain, it's going to be hard to be responsive. So I would start there >>Visibility this same question over to you from Verizon's perspective, quick wins. >>Yeah. So I think first of all, there's a need to ingest this multi-care spectrum data, which I don't think is humanly possible. You don't have people having expertise, you know, all the seven layers of the OSI model and then across network and security and at the application level. So I think you need systems which are now able to get that data. It shouldn't just be wasted reports that you're paying for on a monthly basis. It's about time that you started making the most of those in the form of identifying what are the efficiencies within your ecosystem. First of all, what are the things, you know, which could be better utilized subsequently you have the >>Opportunity to reduce the noise of a trouble tickets handling. It sounds pretty trivial, but >>An average you can imagine every trouble tickets has the cost in dollars, right? >>So, and there's so many tickets and there's art >>That get created on a network and across an end user application value, >>We're talking thousands, you know, across and end user >>Application value chain could be million in >>A year. So, and so many of those are not really, >>He, you know, a cause of concern because the problem is something. >>So I think that whole triage is an immediate cost saving and the bigger your network, the bigger >>There's a cost of things, whether you're a provider, whether you're, you know, the end customer at the end of the day, not having to deal with problems, which nobody can resolve, which are not meant to be dealt with. There's so many of those situations, right, where service has just been adopted, >>Which is just coordinate quality, et cetera, et cetera. So many reasons. So those are the, >>So there's some of the immediate cost saving them. They are really, really significant. >>Secondly, I would say Raj mentioned something about, you know, the user, >>Your application value chain, and an understanding of that, especially with this hybrid cloud environment, >>Et cetera, et cetera, right? The time it takes to identify a problem in an end user application value chain across the seven layers that I mentioned with the OSI reference model across network and security and the application environment. It's something that >>In its own self has massive cost to business, >>Right? That could be >>No sale transactions that could be obstructed because of this. There could be, and I'm going to use a really interesting example. >>We talk about IOT. The integrity of the IOT machine is exciting. >>Family is pivotal in this new world that we're stepping into. >>You could be running commands, >>Super efficient. He has, everything is being told to the machine really fast with sending yeah. >>Everything there. What if it's hacked? And if that's okay, >>Robotic arm starts to involve the things you don't want it to do. >>So there's so much of that. That becomes a part of this naturally. And I believe, yes, this is not just like from a cost >>standpoint, but anything going wrong with that code base, et cetera, et cetera. These are massive costs to the business in the form of the revenue. They have lost the perception in the market as a result, the fed, >>You know, all that stuff. So >>These are a couple of very immediate problems, but then you also have the whole player virtualized resources where you can automate the allocation, you know, the quantification of an orchestration of those virtualized resources, rather than a person having to, you know, see something and then say, Oh yeah, I need to increase capacity over here, because then it's going to have this particular application. You have systems doing this stuff and to, you know, Roger's point your customer should not be identifying your problems before you, because this digital is where it's all about perception. >>Absolutely. We definitely don't want the customers finding it before. So rich, let's wrap this particular question up with you from that senior analyst perspective, how can companies use make big impact quickly with AI ops? Yeah, >>Yeah, I think, you know, and it was been really summed up some really great use cases there. I think with the, uh, you know, one of the biggest struggles we've always had in operations is isn't, you know, the mean time to resolve. We're pretty good at resolving the things. We just have to find the thing we have to resolve. That's always been the problem and using these advanced analytics and machine learning algorithms now across all machine and application data, our tendency is humans is to look at the console and say, what's flashing red. That must be what we have to fix, but it could be something that's yellow, somewhere else, six services away. And we have made things so complicated. And I think this is what it was when I was saying that we can't get there anymore on our own. We need help to get there in all of this stuff that the outline. >>So, so well builds up to a higher level thing of what is the customer experience about what is the customer journey? And we've struggled for years in the digital world and measuring that a day-to-day thing. We know an online retail. If you're having a bad experience at one retailer, you just want your thing. You're going to go to another retailer, brand loyalty. Isn't one of like it, wasn't a brick and mortal world where you had a department store near you. So you were loyal to that because it was in your neighborhood, um, online that doesn't exist anymore. So we need to be able to understand the customer from that first moment, they touch a digital service all the way from their, their journey through that digital service, the lowest layer, whether it be a database or the network, what have you, and then back to them again, and we're not understanding, is that a good experience? >>We gave them. How does that compare to last week's experience? What should we be doing to improve that next week? Uh, and I think companies are starting and then the pandemic certainly, you know, push this timeline. If you listened to the, the, the CEO of Microsoft, he's like, you know, 10 years of digital transformation written down. And the first several months of this, um, in banks and in financial institutions, I talked to insurance companies, aren't slowing down. They're trying to speed up. In fact, what they've discovered is that they're, you know, obviously when we were on lockdown or what have you, they use of digital servers is spiked very high. What they've learned is they're never going to go back down. They're never going to return to pretend endemic levels. So now they're stuck with this new reality. Well, how do we service those customers and how do we make sure we keep them loyal to our brand? >>Uh, so, you know, they're looking for modernization opportunities. A lot of that that's things have been exposed. And I think Raj touched upon this very early in the conversation is visibility gaps. Now that we're on the outside, looking in at the data center, we know we architect things in a very way. Uh, we better ways of making these correlations across the Sparrow technologies to understand where the problems lies. We can give better services to our customers. And I think that's really what we're going to see a lot of the innovation and the people really clamoring for these new ways of doing things that starting, you know, now, I mean, I've seen it in customers, but I think really the push through the end of this year to next year when, you know, economy and things like that straightened out a little bit more, I think it really, people are gonna take a hard look of where they are and is, you know, AI ops the way forward for them. And I think they'll find it. The answer is yes, for sure. >>So we've, we've come to a consensus that, of what the parallels are of organizations, basically the cost of doing nothing. You guys have given some great advice on where some of those quick wins are. Let's talk about something Raj touched on earlier is organizations, are they really ready for truly automated AI? Raj, I want to start with you readiness factor. What are your thoughts? >>Uh, you know, uh, I think so, you know, we place our, her lives on automated systems all the time, right? In our, in our day-to-day lives, in the, in the digital world. I think, uh, you know, our, uh, at least the customers that I talk to our customers are, uh, are, uh, you know, uh, have a sophisticated systems. Like for example, advanced automation is a reality. If you look at social media, AI and ML and automation are used to automate away, uh, misinformation, right? If you look at financial institutions, AI and ML are used to automate away a fraud, right? So I want to ask our customers why can't we automate await oil in it, operation systems, right? And that's where our customers are. Then the, you know, uh, I'm a glass half full, uh, cleanup person, right? Uh, this pandemic has been harder on many of our customers, but I think what we have learned from our customers is they've Rose to the occasion. >>They've used digital as a key needs, right? At scale. That's what we see with, you know, when, when Huseman and his team talk about, uh, you know, network operational intelligence, right. That's what it means to us. So I think they are ready, the intersection of customer experience it and OT, operational technology is ripe for automation. Uh, and, uh, you know, I, I wanna, I wanna sort of give a shout out to three key personas in this mix. It's about people, right? One is the SRE persona, you know, site, reliability engineer. The other is the information security persona. And the third one is the it operator automation engineer persona. These folks in organizations are building a system of intelligence that can respond rapidly to the needs of their digital business. We at Broadcom, we are in the business of helping them construct a system of intelligence that will create a human augmented solution for them. Right. So when I see, when I interact with large enterprise customers, I think they, they, you know, they, they want to achieve what I would call advanced automation and AI ML solutions. And that's squarely, very I ops is, you know, is going as it, you know, when I talk to rich and what, everything that rich says, you know, that's where it's going and that's what we want to help our customers to. So, which about your perspective of organizations being ready for truly automated AI? >>I think, you know, the conversation has shifted a lot in the last, in, in pre pandemic. Uh, I'd say at the end of last year, we're, you know, two years ago, people I'd go to conferences and people come up and ask me like, this is all smoke and mirrors, right? These systems can't do this because it is such a leap forward for them, for where they are today. Right. We we've sort of, you know, in software and other systems, we iterate and we move forward slowly. So it's not a big shock. And this is for a lot of organizations that big, big leap forward where they're, they're running their operations teams today. Um, but now they've come around and say, you know what? We want to do this. We want all the automations. We want my staff not doing the low complexity, repetitive tasks over and over again. >>Um, you know, and we have a lot of those kinds of legacy systems. We're not going to rebuild. Um, but they need certain care and feeding. So why are we having operations? People do those tasks? Why aren't we automating those out? I think the other piece is, and I'll, I'll, I'll send this out to any of the operations teams that are thinking about going down this path is that you have to understand that the operations models that we're operating under in, in INO and have been for the last 25 years are super outdated and they're fundamentally broken for the digital age. We have to start thinking about different ways of doing things and how do we do that? Well, it's, it's people, organization, people are going to work together differently in an AI ops world, um, for the better. Um, but you know, there's going to be the, the age of the 40 person bridge call thing. >>Troubleshooting is going away. It's going to be three, four, five focused engineers that need to be there for that particular incident. Um, a lot of process mailer process we have in our level, one level, two engineering. What have you running of tickets, gathering of artifacts, uh, during an incident is going to be automated. That's a good thing. We should be doing those, those things by hand anymore. So I'd say that the, to people's like start thinking about what this means to your organization. Start thinking about the great things we can do by automating things away from people, having to do them over and over again. And what that means for them, getting them matched to what they want to be doing is high level engineering tasks. They want to be doing monitorization, working with new tools and technologies. Um, these are all good things that help the organization perform better as a whole great advice and great kind of some of the thoughts that you shared rich for what the audience needs to be on the lookout. For one, I want to go over to you, give me your thoughts on what the audience that should be on the lookout for, or put on your agendas in the next 12 months. >>So there's like a couple of ways to answer that question. One thing would be in the form of, you know, what are some of the things they have to be concerned about in terms of implementing this solution or harnessing its power. The other one could be, you know, what are the perhaps advantages they should look to see? So if I was to talk about the first one, let's say that, what are some of the things I have to watch out for like possible pitfalls that everybody has data, right? So yeah, there's one strategy we say, okay, you've got the data, let's see what we can do with them. But then there's the exact opposite side, which has to be considered when you're doing that analysis. What are the use cases that you're looking to drive? Right. But then use cases you have to understand, are you taking a reactive use case approach? >>Are you taking active use cases, right? Or, yeah, that's a very, very important concentration. Then you have to be very cognizant of where does this data that you have, where does it reside? What are the systems and where does it need to go to in order for this AI function to happen and subsequently if there needs to be any backward communication with all of that data in a process manner. So I think these are some of the very critical points because you can have an AI solution, which is sitting in a customer data center. It could be in a managed services provider data center, like, right, right. It could be in a cloud data center, like an AWS or something, or you could have hybrid views, et cetera, all of that stuff. So you have to be very mindful of where you're going to get the data from is going to go to what are the use cases you're trying to get out to do a bit of backward forward. >>Okay, we've got this data thing and I think it's a journey. Nobody can come in and say, Hey, you've built this fantastic thing. It's like Terminator two. I think it's a journey where we built starting with the network. My personal focus always comes down to the network and with 5g so much, so much more right with 5g, you're talking low latency communication. That's like the true power of 5g, right? It's low latency, it's ultra high bandwidth, but what's the point of that low latency. If then subsequently the actions that need to be taken to prevent any problems in application, IOT applications, remote surgeries, uh, self driving vehicles, et cetera, et cetera. What if that's where people are sitting and sipping their coffees and trying to take action that needs to be in low latency as well. Right? So these are, I think some of the fundamental things that you have to know your data, your use cases, that location, where it needs to be exchanged, what are the parameters around that for extending that data? >>And I think from that point at one word, it's all about realizing, you know, sense of business outcomes. Unless AI comes in as a digital labor that shows you, I have, I have reduced your this amount of time and that's a result of big problems or identified problems for anything. Or I have saved you this much resource in a month, in a year or whatever timeline that people want to see it. So I think those are some of the initial starting points, and then it all starts coming together. But the key is it's not one system that can do everything. You have to have a way where, you know, you can share data once you've caught all of that data into one system. Maybe you can send it to another system at make more, take more advantage, right? That system might be an AI and IOT system, which is just looking at all of your street and make it sure that Hey parents. So it's still off just to be more carbon neutral and all that great stuff, et cetera, et cetera, >>Stuff for the audience to can cigarette rush, take us time from here. What are some of the takeaways that you think the audience really needs to be laser focused on as we move forward into the next year? You know, one thing that, uh, I think a key takeaway is, um, uh, you know, as we embark on 2021, closing the gap between intent and outcome and outputs and outcome will become critical, is critical. Uh, you know, especially for, uh, you know, uh, digital transformation at scale for organizations context in the, you know, for customer experience becomes even more critical as who Swan Huseman was talking, uh, you know, being network network aware network availability is, is a necessary condition, but not sufficient condition anymore. Right? The what, what, what customers have to go towards is going from network availability to network agility with high security, uh, what we call app aware networks, right? How do you differentiate between a trade, a million dollar trade that's happening between, uh, you know, London and New York, uh, uh, versus a YouTube video training that an employee is going through? Worse is a YouTube video that millions of customers are, are >>Watching, right? Three different context, three different customer scenarios, right? That is going to be critical. And last but not least feedback loop, uh, you know, responsiveness is all about feedback loop. You cannot predict everything, but you can respond to things faster. I think these are sort of the three, three things that, uh, that, uh, you know, customers aren't going to have to have to really think about. And that's also where I believe AI ops, by the way, AI ops and I I'm. Yeah. You know, one of the points that was smart and shout out to what he was saying was heterogeneity is key, right? There is no homogeneous tool in the world that can solve problems. So you want an open extensible system of intelligence that, that can harness data from disparate data sources provide that visualization, the actionable insight and the human augmented recommendation systems that are so needed for, uh, you know, it operators to be successful. I think that's where it's going. >>Amazing. You guys just provided so much content context recommendations for the audience. I think we accomplished our goal on this. I'll call it power panel of not only getting to a consensus of what, where AI ops needs to go in the future, but great recommendations for what businesses in any industry need to be on the lookout for rich Huisman Raj, thank you for joining me today. We want to thank you for watching. This was such a rich session. You probably want to watch it again. Thanks for your time. Thanks so much for attending and participating in the AI OBS virtual forum. We really appreciate your time and we hope you really clearly understand the value that AI ops platforms can deliver to many types of organizations. I'm Lisa Martin, and I want to thank our speakers today for joining. We have rich lane from Forrester who's fund here from Verizon and Raj from Broadcom. Thanks everyone. Stay safe..

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of Dell Technologies. World Digital Experience Brought to You by Dell Technologies. Hello, everyone, and welcome Back to the cubes. Continuing coverage of Del Tech World 2020. This is David Dante With Me is Tom Sweet. He's the EVP and chief financial officer of Dell Technologies. Tom is great to see you. Thanks for coming on The Virtual Cube. >>Dave is always good to see you. And thanks for having me. It's always good to have a conversation with you. >>I actually don't think I've spent a lot of time talking to folks from jail, but I don't think you and I have talked since the pandemic hit. So you know, what's the macro picture? You know, you and I was usually start with the big picture. And, of course, the impact of the pandemic and kind of the big waves that you're seeing out. There may be some of the changes that you're navigating >>Well, you know, it's it's been uninterested near David's. You and I both know, right, and so we way clearly did a number of tactical actions as we worked our way through the pandemic in the early days to make sure our team members could work and we're safe and then pivoted to making sure we could, you know, help our customers and get them up in productive from a work from home perspective, you know? And so it's and then we've evolved into Then, you know, how do you think your way through? Um, you know, what's the what's the work? How do you work your way through? What do you look like on the other end? And so we've been spending a lot of time thinking about investments. Where do we put Capital Toe work to position the organization for success? Post Cobain, whenever that might be, by the way, and and so that's been the focus in, you know, really spending a lot of time on investment areas. The whole macro dynamic has been interesting is, you know, way went through this huge trough in Q two in terms of GDP and global GDP. You know, we're working our way out of that at a macro level. It's very interesting as you go across the globe and look at the various countries and regions and how they're recovering at very different paces. You know, the business has been uninterested in business in terms of what we do, and our PC business has been quite strong. And we've seen a big shift with the work from home and learn from home dynamics with strong demand from government and education. Three infrastructure business R I s G business has been a bit softer, just a zoo Companies have pivoted, but all in all, I think we're working our way through it. I e think the actions we took to preserve liquidity and protect the P and L early in the pandemic have paid off for us. And, uh, we're now focused on how do we position Post Post when we get through this whole cova dynamic? >>You know, way both seen a couple of pretty severe downturns. I think about the dot com downturn and then the financial crisis. I'm actually kind of surprised and impressed the way that that not just our industry, but all industries have worked through this. I guess in hindsight, that shouldn't be surprising given the pace of technology. But I remember those two that I just mentioned. People were flat footed. I remember Ed Zander joking when he was a son. Anybody wanna buy a server? And it was just there was business wasn't being transacted. And that's different this time around, Uh, industries have have responded and you know, technology, of course, is is at the heart of that. But were you surprised at all by the by the pace of I don't want to say recovery, but resiliency, I guess >>a little bit to be honest day. I mean I mean, it does highlight the fact that at the heart of what most companies are you know are doing these days is technology and how they evolve their business model, how how they interact with their customers. And so clearly, if you you think all the way back with our industry date back to the early two thousands and we had a with the bump with the dot com bust and people shut down, I t spending, you know. And now I don't think you can really do that if you think about where you need to be from a business model perspective. So I think there's been a maturation and a recognition that technology plays a key role. But But it has been surprising about how fast it's pivoted. To be honest with you in the sense of, you know, I think of the very distinct cycles is would come through the Coba dynamic. Big PC demand early innings. You know, we saw some recovering the I S G spend in Q two in our quarter second quarter a little bit better than Q one. You know, as companies readjusted spin eso, it's The organizations across in our customer base have have adjusted quite well. Clearly, there is vertical implications. If you're in the airline industry or some of the hospitality, you're you're being a bit more cautious, right? But all in all, it's been a It's been an interesting journey for all of us. >>Yeah, I mean, at the height of the pandemic, you saw, you know, some people taking actions. Obviously, they were freezing I t projects. They were starting to do layoffs or freezing new hires. That's moderated based on the data that we've seen. I just published the other day that we're starting to see some, you know, slow thawing of that tight grip on I t. What are you seeing? Both externally and maybe as the CFO. What are you doing internally? Well, >>if you talk to my CEO should probably give you a different answer day that I'm about to give you because you know, I'm a extraordinarily balanced guy in my point of view, right? But, you know, look, I think externally we're seeing targeted investments happening by customers that are moving projects forward. I think there's a bit of caution, and I do think this whole evolution off. How do customers want to consume? I t is evolving, you know. Is it a cat expand? Is it a Is it a financing structure? Is it a as a service and consumption model type? You know, So those three economic models around I t. Or changing and evolving. But I think overall, what we've seen is some level off, you know, cautious, you know, cautiousness. But yet, you know, targeted and investment with our customers and in an internally, Quite frankly, we're continuing to invest. We have capabilities that we need to evolve. You know, we're working. We're very focused on transformational projects that enable our customers to do business with us easier. On the other hand, we're being very tight around. What do I need to do from, You know, some of those old run the business types spend and how doe I streamline that while still supporting the business properly. So it's a bit of a balance right now. >>Yeah, and you obviously have the advantage of large portfolio parts of your portfolio exposed. Like you said, some of the on Prem stuff. But then you've got the certainly the laptop in the work from home shift. A couple of questions there. One is, first of all, you know, Della was largely a larger work from home culture than the average. The average Let's say the average is on a 15 to 20% of employees work from home. You're probably higher than that. And and But now we're seeing that people are expecting at least double that long term are gonna work from home. So you were, you know, somewhat, maybe more prepared than than most. But then again, you have that tailwind on one side of your business. Your supply chain did very well, unlike some of your competitors that we saw early in the pandemic, you know? So it seems like you've managed that pretty well. Maybe your thoughts. >>Yeah. Okay. We do have a culture that provided flexibility. We've been on this journey for roughly 10 years about having our people have some flexibility where they work. And so we had roughly 20 25,000 people working remotely, or some are in some hybrid fashion before the pandemic. You know, obviously, right now, 90% of our workforce is is remote. We think, you know, post pandemic, you know that it's gonna look like something like, you know, you know, 45 50% of the organization is probably gonna be in some sort of hybrid or remote setting. You know, that's the feedback our team members are giving us. And, uh and so you know, we have been fortunate to be able to have the culture that pivoted quite frank quite quickly, I should say, as we worked our way through this from a supply chain perspective Look our supply chain has done. Team has done a terrific job on sort of navigating the barriers and the challenges put up by a covert 19 crisis. But I'll go further back that if you and I talked about this before, think about what's happened with our supply chain and global supply chains over the last couple of years and whether it's the US China dynamic and how do you work your way through that? You know, and how do you ensure continuity of supply for our customers? And so that that teams done a great job? You know, we have long term relationships with many of our key suppliers, which has been helpful. And, you know, as you know, we have one of the largest, if not the largest, technology by in the industry. So it has helped us in terms of making sure we have capability and availability for custom. >>Let's talk a little bit about some of the strategy and the value levers that you guys talk about. You've always hit on industry consolidation, integration delivering. You've seen the 13 D with the movie you're gonna make with VM Ware. How have things changed? There has a pandemic changed your thinking at all, And how are you doing in terms of those turning those knobs? >>You know, first, it has not changed our thinking in the sense of some of those keep long term value creation activities we've been focused on and platforms we've been focused on around Hey, you know, we know that in the where we where we sell where we compete, that the industry is not a, you know, a rapidly growing industry. And so you grow organically by consolidation and share gain, and that's what we've been focused on. You couple that with the innovation engine we have with Dell Technologies. And, uh, including our, you know, way need to including that VM ware. You know, we've got a new, extraordinary patent portfolio and we've got these what we think are unique solutions and capability. So we're pushing hard on the innovation engine, and then you couple that with the capital work we've been doing around, how do you delivering the balance sheet? Getting the company reposition back towards investment grade. And we've made really good progress on that. You know will pay down $5.5 billion of debt this year, which will again position us closer to those investment grade like metrics. And so those those platforms are pillars, if you will, of our strategy, haven't changed. But in addition to that, you know, we are looking at where do you grow and how do you continue to grow at a pace, perhaps at GDP GDP plus, which is sort of where we think you know, is the long term framework we've got to be thinking about. So that's where you get into these adjacency is like, How do you How do you further driving a multi cloud hybrid cloud? How do you think about the opportunity with Telco, with five G roll out that's happening across the globe and the investment that's going to go into that the whole edge computing the edge cloud is of interest to us. And so there's a number of these emerging areas that we think are pretty interesting, and their adjacent and fit nicely into what we do is a, you know is, quite frankly, that essential infrastructure company. So that's the focus we've been driving about. How do we set up both continue on our core mission of consolidation, innovation and delivering as well as how do you set up some of these growth vectors as we move forward? >>Well, in one of the other levers you filed the 13 d, I don't know what you can share with us. Some of it gets confused. How much is fact sometimes and how much is speculation. But, I mean, I've said that it appears that one of the things that you're looking at is creating an equilibrium in terms of the balance sheets of both companies. Uh, keep getting them both that investment grade. What can you tell us about what you're thinking there? >>Yeah, I look, you know, obviously we did file a 13 D in mid July, which essentially said we were contemplating whether you know, a potential spin of our 81% ownership interest out to the Dell Technology shareholders. And so we're continuing to work with the VM Ware team on, you know, what does that look like with a couple of fundamental principles, which is Hey, you know, we have both benefited from this better together story. And so how do we keep that differentiation in some type of a long term operating agreement or operating framework? But at the same point in time, you know, you know, do the potentially look at it spend that unlocks value for both sets of shareholders of both companies, right? VM ware gets additional flexibility from a from a strategic perspective, they don't have the Dell balance sheet. Dell Technologies balance sheets sitting on top of them from the Dell Technologies perspective. You know, we presumably as part of this would be some type of a dividend stream. But by being were out to its share. What shareholders? We get the opportunity to accelerate our delivering story and get back closer to investment grade or right at investment grade, depending upon how this all works out. So we think there's a number of really interesting value levers here, right at the same point in time, wanting to protect what's been really good about the relationship in the way we've gone to market, the way we've innovated. And so that's the balance were walking right now. And you know there's work to do is we work with being where to see. If this makes sense, can we get it done? But But we're early innings and and we may end up not doing anything honestly, But I mean, that's that's sort of the thinking that we're working through right now. >>Well, it's an interesting thought exercise, if nothing else. And so e I look at it when when you combine del in the M. C when you did the acquisition. Now you became VM Ware's most important partner. Just even if it's in terms of revenue because you've got a massive distribution channel. So there's there's that inherent value in that relationship, independent of anything else. The flip side of that is VM Ware has been, you know, awesome acquire of companies. Uh, you know, inorganic r and D, if you will. And some pretty cool R and D A Z Well, so it's gonna be really interesting toe watch how that plays out. I think we wait and see. That's a comment, you know, >>we're working through it and we'll see where we end up. But, you know, you've highlighted a couple of great points. I mean, our, you know, our go to market reach, you know, it is extraordinary. And VM Ware has benefited from that. We've benefited from the VM Ware relationship with some of their technologies is we've integrated those into our combined solution. So it's been a it's been a win win, and that's the balance of how do you keep that, Aziz. Well, as you know, quite frankly, provide some value back to your shareholders. >>Well, we've seen that not just the the uplift of the market. But clearly the speculation has caused some unlocking of value and may bring some others from the sidelines. But I wanted to ask you about I've been talking about this automation mandate. I think there was one. Certainly. There was one before the pandemic, and now it's even accentuated. Um, can you talk a little bit about how you're applying automation, thio your business and maybe what you're seeing with customers? How that could affect, you know, the long term productivity of your business? Maybe new ways to work. What can you tell us there? >>Yeah, Look, I mean, we we have a pretty significant automation agenda within Dell Technologies, both from an internal perspective as well as the automation and a I am and machine learning capabilities were embedding into our solutions to help our customers Dr their automation agendas. Internally, what we've been focused on is how do I simplify? How do I take complexity out? You know, how doe I providing a richer mawr interactive experience with our customers? How doe I lean into service needs service capabilities, all those areas that are ripe for automation and my finance organization alone Right now, I think I have over 125 automation projects going right now is we? We look at how we simplify from a customer. Perspective is I go out and talk to customers. They're also doing much the same thing that we're doing, which is how did they take complexity out of their process? How do they streamline? How are they? How do they drive? Responsiveness and customer, uh, you know, customer experience at a much higher level. And so it's all you know. It's all war walking down this pathway of process simplification, automation, which includes technology, investment, obviously which is, you know, helpful from our perspective. And so there's a agenda out there is Aziz. We talked with customers in terms of in a commonality as we talked with customers. And then the other point I'd give you Dave, is that just as you think about, you know, as I talked to my peers out in the industry, I mean, many of us are driving automation agendas. Have a lot of that, you know, with focused on taking touch out, enrichment of job and capabilities, enrichment of, you know, we gotta build skill sets to drive that. So there is a big theme across the industry in this area, and I think it's gonna do nothing but accelerate. Quite frankly, Aziz, we work our way forward. >>Yeah, I've talked to a bunch of customers in this topic, and it seems to be sort of three paths. Actually, one path is there's. There's a lot of low hanging fruit and easy wins. And but the problem with that is a lot of times it's just paving the cow path with automation. You know, the other is you got to do the hard work of really digging into the process and the third that I've seen, which is kind of interesting to which is kind of what you're alluding to is your free up. You know, some of the mundane tasks, and you let the people who really understand the process rethink that process. And then you go into a deeper automation agenda, and that seems toe that will turn millions into billions. >>That's the value. Add their game. I mean, it's that third framework that you laid out, which is you have to do the work around process. But then again, how doe I then you know over time is I is. I have the experts help us on the automation capabilities. Once we've identified, what are the appropriate processes or functions to be automated? How do you then pivot resource tomb or higher value add activity across the organization and that Z when you when you do that, you unlock, I think, a terrific value creation opportunity, which we're very focused on. >>And I know there's always a big concern about jobs with automation. But the reality is, if you look at the data from the U. S. And Europe of the last couple of decades, the productivity trend is clear. It's it's gone down. And if you think about the big problems that we face in the world, whether it's climate change, your national debt or health care, you know you know hunger, you just can't throw people at that problem. You gotta have a combinations of people in machines. And so well, there may be, you know, a short term impact. I'm kind of an optimist. I know you are a swell >>No, it Zuno. Obviously, this is a tough time for a lot of businesses and customers. As we work our way through the pandemic and and including, you know, and and some have adjusted their workforce, you know, and part of its from the economic reality. But part of it is also a skill set. Dynamic is a reshaping workforce. And but I do think automation plays a key role. And how do you enable skill sets to evolve and get again re allocated Thio other value creation activity. So there is, you know, unfortunately, are probably gonna be some short term disruptions in certain areas. But on the other hand, if you think about the long term gain and the productivity gains that we all need to drive, you know you can't do it without automation and thinking your way through streamlining and taking complexity out of the organization. >>So my last question has come back the productivity We're talking about work from home. Do you feel like you've had a bump in productivity? As a result? Maybe there was some short term disruption. But you know, what's your what's your data or your gut say, in terms of the impact on your organization and then maybe on your customers as well in terms of the program. So >>I think it's been fairly similar between us and our customers. I waas concerned when we went to a work from home back in March that we were gonna lose productivity and, you know, and I thought it was gonna be a productivity drain, you know, a czar. Team members were juggling work and their family dynamics and situation is in. Obviously in the middle of that are in the early innings of this covert crisis. What we have seen, in fact, is actually, we've seen productivity improved pre Koba to where we are today. And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that we're giving our team members one flexibility on how they do their job. But we're giving them time back there, and they're not commuting. There's less meetings that are consuming time, you know, and the responsiveness in the capabilities of the order such that we're moving through decisions and projects. I think, at a faster pace, quite frankly. And so it's been an interesting and, I think to me a bit of a surprising result from what we've seen as I talked to customers and I'm the executive sponsor on a number of extraordinary, very large multinational customers. It's pretty much the same response. You know, the similar experience, right, that they've seen similar results that we have. So now what you don't want this to be is that you're doing it on the backs of the team members working 15 or 16 hours a day. You've got to find the right balance. But the fact that we're giving them flexibility to jump out during the middle of Daito tend to some family members or help with, you know, their Children's learning. Then they're back in maybe a little bit later during the day. I mean, I do think that we've been able to a culture that's pretty interesting that is paying dividends for us right now. >>Yeah, it's ironic that this hit at the beginning of of 2020 it's clear that it's gonna be a different decade than it was last decade, which I guess every decade is Tom Tom Sweet. It was great to have you on the Cube. Thanks so much. Always a pleasure speaking with you. >>Always, always great to see you. Thanks for having me. >>You're welcome. And thank you for watching everybody says Dave Volonte, you're watching our coverage, the cubes coverage of del Tech World 2020. But right back after this short break

>>law from Las Vegas. It's the two covering a ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners, >>everyone welcome to the Cubes Live coverage in Las Vegas For AWS Reinvent 2019 starts Seventh year of the Cube coverage. Watching the big wave of Amazon continue to pound the pound the beach with more announcements. I'm John Ferrier instructing the seal for the new ways with my partner, David Dante, our next guest. Brian Hall, vice president. Product market for all of AWS >>Brian. Thanks for coming on. The Cube is >>really a pleasure to be here. We've had ready, eh? We've >>had many conversations off camera around opportunities, innovation and watching Andy Jackson Kino, which is a marathon. Three hours, 30 announcements. He's hit his mark. Live music, well done. But he got a ton of stuff in there. Let's unpack the key points. Tell us what you think people should pay attention to. Of all the announcements, one of the three major or one of the major areas that are that stand out that are most notable that you wanna highlight. >>Okay, I'll give you I'll give you four areas that I think are most notable from the keynote. First is we continue to be very focused on how do we give the deepest and broadest platform for all the different things people want to be able to do with computing. And we had a big announcements around new instance instances of easy to that air based on custom design silicon that that we built one of them is called IMF one. These are instances that are focused on machine learning inference. Where it turns out, up to 90% of the cost for machine learning often is. And so we have. We have a brand new set of instances reduce costs by up to 90% for people doing inference in the cloud. We also last year announced a armed chip that we developed called Graviton, and we announced today grab it on two and that their new instances that are running on gravity on thio, including our general purpose computer instances, are compute intensive instances and high memory instances, and people will get up to 40% price performance improvement by using the instances that are based on the >>method of the messages faster more inexpensive. But also there's an architectural shift going on with Compute Way. Heard that with the I. O. T. And the Outpost stuff where computer is moving to the data because moving around is well recognized and now affirmed its expensive. Yeah, this is a big part of it. You got local zone. What's that local zone? Was it a local >>s? So they're kind of two ways that we're addressing that the first is but making it so that our infrastructure is closer to customers. We have outposts for customers that want to run a WS in their own environments. We announced today local zones which are essentially taking the computer storage database capabilities and putting it closer to metro areas where people want to have a single digit Leighton see for applications when going to the clouds over video rendering for gaming and like, that's gonna be very helpful. Is >>that gonna be like a regional point of presence was gonna be installed, Eleni, on any premise anyone wants, I could put my >>outpost can be put in any environment where you have the right power network infrastructure. Local zones are managed by Amazon, so I don't have to have it. I don't have to manage any data center. Anything. I could just choose to deploy to an environment that is geographically very >>smaller than a region. >>Small isn't an ability. Oh, yeah, >>Right. Okay. That's like a mini zone. Yeah, and and so what about the the availability component? It's sort of up to the customer to figure that out There >>it is connected to a region. So, for instance, we're releasing in Los Angeles with availability now, and that's connected to the US West region. So all of the data backup redundancy application duplication of people want to be able to do could do be done, do the region. >>All right, So graviton processor got onto those early press reports that leaked out prior to reinvent. I noticed that didn't match kind of what was announced. Just clarify what the grab it on ship is doing. What was the key? Grab it on a piece of the news here >>s O gravitas to is a arm based process lor designed and built by a W s. It is powering three different instance. Types are for those who know the types the see instances am instances and are instances on dhe available starting today with M six, which is one of our general purpose computing platforms. And so it gives up to 40% better price performance. And there's a whole ecosystem of platforms and APS Little run unarmed today. >>Are you pushing the envelope on computer? Which is great you continue to do That's the core of jewels of AWS, which we love and storage and everything else. Warm story. I get that a second, but I want your thoughts on the stage maker. A lot of time was spent on stage maker kind of levels of the stack infrastructure, machine, learning stage maker and tools. And a I service is. But the big announcement was this new I d frame environments, not a framework. You're taking an environment like an i d for all the different frameworks. Where did this come from? How I mean so obvious. Now, looking back that no one has this this was a big party announcement. You explain this. >>Yeah. So what you're referring to is sage Makers studio. One of the things that people have really liked about sage maker is it takes the whole process of building a model training a model ended up deploying a model and gives you the steps to do it, but there it hasn't been brought together into one environment before. And so sage maker Studio is a integrated development environment for machine learning that lets you spin up. No books. Run experiments test how your models performing. Deploy your model of detective. Your model is drifting all from one place, which gives me essentially a single dashboard for my whole machine learning work. Look, what do >>you think the impact's gonna be on this? Because if I'm just looking at that obvious awesomeness, it's like, OK, that means anyone can get start using machine learning, you know, be a guru or a total math. >>That's that's fundamentally a lot of what we're doing is trying to reduce the barrier for developers or anyone who has who has a desire to start using machine learning to be able to do that and say, you maker studios just another way that we're doing it. Another one we announced on Monday or on Sunday night, of course, a machine learning powered musical keyboard. Everyone knew that was coming right? That's that's just a example like Deep Racer, where we're taking machine learning. We're making it immediately practical and even fun. And then giving people a way to start experimenting does that they'll eventually become developers who are using machine learning for much >>things. Have a question. As you simplify machine learning, people are concerned about explain ability. You guys, I think, have some ways of helping people understand what's going on inside the algorithm. So that's not a pure black box. Is that correct interpretation? >>It is. It is way announced. Today s age maker experiments, which is one of the one of the things about machine learning, is your kind of constantly tuning the different variables that you're using in your model tow. Understand what works? What doesn't. That's all black box. It's really hard to tell with sage major studio and experiments in particular. Now I can see how models perform differently based on tweaking variables, which starts making it much easier to explain what's happening. >>I think you guys got it right, and he laid out the databases. Multiple databases pick your database. It's okay that multiple databases just create some abstracted layers on top. I totally agree with that philosophy and I think that's gonna be a nice haven for opportunity. We agree. >>Used to be that because so much of running a database was all of the operational expertise it took that you wouldn't wanna have too many databases because that's that many database administrators and people doing the undifferentiated heavy lifting now with the cloud. If you have a data set that's better suited for something like a uh uh, workload in Cassandra, we announced the Manage Cassandra service today. You can just been up that service, load your data and start going. And so it creates a lot more opportunity >>talk about quantum because I know you guys yesterday, which is always a signal from Amazon and didn't make the keynote cut, but a ray relevant quantum announcement, the joke was, is gonna be a quantum supremacy messaging. But no, is more of a humble approach from you guys is more. Hey, we're gonna put some quantum out there setting expectations on the horizon, not over playing your hand on that. But you also have an institute with Caltech humble academic thing going on. What's the quantum inside Inside conversation like an Amazon? What's the what's going on with you. What can we expect? >>We're really excited about what quantum computing's going to be able to do for customers, and we say a lot of Amazon on many things. It's date one, which means it's really early. When we look at Quantum somewhere between zero and one, we're not quite sure where. So just live saying it's really early days. And so what we're doing is providing a platform, a partnership with Caltech, to advance the state of the art and then also a Quantum Solutions lab to help customers start to experiment. To figure out how might. This enabled me to solve problems that I couldn't do before >>you? No one can ask. So Andy talked in a keynote about most of the spend is still on. So the early days of cloud were about, you know, infrastructures of service, storage, computer networking, and it seems like we're entering This era of this data is really sort of the driver where you're applying analytics and machine learning. Data's everywhere, and it seems to be driving sort of new forms of compute. It's not just in this sort of stovepipe anymore. You see that you see that sort of new emergence of new compute were close. >>Yeah. Yeah, we definitely do. And in particular, the way that people are starting to use data lakes, which is essentially a way of saying, Hey, I have my data and one place in a bunch of different formats. And I want different analytical tools, different machine learning tools, different applications toe all be able to build on that same data. And once you do that, you start unlocking opportunities for different application developers, different lines of business to take advantage of it. Brian, >>Thanks for coming on The Cube. Really appreciate your VP of all product. Mark. You get the keys to the kingdom, you kind of see what's going on. Take us home and finish the exit interview out by by talking about the best. Now that Jesse Safer last. The best for last was the outpost G A and the five G wavelength with CEO of Arise on. Yeah, I mean, that's gonna bring five G to stadiums for drones, immersive experiences. I mean, that's a big vision. Yeah, I think it's home >>people. People are rightfully excited about five G for having faster connections, but the thing that we're also very excited about is the fact that all these devices will have much lower laden see and the ability to run interactive applications that having a W s with AWS wavelength hosted with the five G providers is gonna give developers chances to melt. >>Brian Hall with With AWS I'm John David Lot. They were here on the Cube studios, sponsored by Intel's Our Signature sponsors of the Intel's Cube Studios. When it's to a shoutout for Intel to them for supporting our mission, bringing the best content from events and extracting the signal from the noise will be back with more after this short break.

>>live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the Q covering I. F s World Conference 2019. Brought to you by I. F s. >>Welcome back to I f s world Everybody, This is David Dante with Paul Dillon and you're watching the Cube, The leader in live tech coverage. Where here from? From the Heinz Auditorium. Nick Ward is here. He's the head of OM Digital Solutions for Rolls Royce and Scott Helmer, president of the F S aerospace and defense. Gentlemen, welcome to the Cube. Thanks for coming on. Thank you. Scott. I want to start with you. We heard a lot about digital transformation. You guys are in the heart of that. Ah, defense. Aerospace is one of those industries that hasn't been dramatically disrupted. Like publishing. Are you seeing taxis? It's a It's a high risk business. It's one that's highly in trench, but it's not safe from disruption. What are the major trends that you're seeing in your space and paint a picture for us? If you would, >>uh, that's a very good question. You're right. The same level of disruption related digital transformation has not yet common aerospace. Defense is that has come to some of the other league leading industries. But this is a whether it's land based operations, naval operations or aircraft operations. This is an asset intensive industry. It's characterized by a very connected network of organizations. Be the manufacturer's operators, subsystem, part suppliers or just maintainers. They stay connected throughout the asset life cycle in its entirety. I f F f s has a portfolio capability. There's four purpose underpinning the critical business processes of those organizations that enables us to be the digital thread to continue the connection of those organizations throughout that outs of life cycle, if you will, that sees this fall come to come to be at the heart of asset lifecycle Management on provides us with the opportunity to inform information insights for our customers. Like return on experience data on aircraft engines where an old GM like Rolls Royce, for example, can harvest that data to analyze the performance of those assets and ultimately optimized thereafter after service offerings. >>Who are the customers? I mean, there's a limited number of companies that make aircraft engines so you don't have a huge domain been numbers of those kinds of companies. But are the customers channel their partners the supply chain network >>Well, the ecosystem is actually large and extensive. They're very recognizable names, and it's certainly an industry that's characterized by significant growth. On the commercial side. Amaro continue is in the midst of a boom and is likely to continue to grow, are expected to continue to grow for at least another decorate decade. And on the defense side, we see military budgets continue or increasingly moving towards sustainment and serve it ization on a performance basis. So the number of organizations that are participating in that value chain whether they're just the upstream, only am so I should just upstream. But the Austrian Williams participate in the design and development are moving into the aftermarket sustainment and service support parts and subsystem supply, or ultimately, third part repair organizations. It's actually quite an extensive network participating in that asset life cycle. >>So, Nick, you know people here Rolls Royce, they think you know the iconic brand. We're gonna talk about cars, talk about your role at Rolls Royce and what's going on in your business. >>So my role I lead our product management function looking are digitally enabled. Service's so for 20 years we've been running a service we call total care. Total care is like a fixed dollar rate. Every time an aircraft flies, we paid a dollar rate for it. Flying. What's really great about that is we're incentivizing. No, I am exactly the same way that airline isn't said device. Keep the aircraft flying. It owns revenue for the airline. It owns revenue for us on that revolutionized relationship between oh am on operator. So within my role, it's about taking four division we call The Intelligent Engine. Intelligent Engine is recognizing the way that digital is starting to pervade the way we think about service is so we've talked about physical engine, big rotating piece of metal that people see service. Is that wrap around that on the digital brain that sits behind all of those sources? That's what we call the intelligent engine. >>Yes, so people sometimes think the mission critic critical piece of air travel is the reservation system. It's not. It's the thinness of the engines available that was lost in critical system, right? You mean like it? If you don't get your reservation Oh, well, somebody else will get it. Not not the end of the world But for the maintenance piece, that's all right. >>Job. You know, our fundamental mission is every rose was powered. Aircraft flies on time every time. All right, there's no disruption. There's no delay that works for the operator, for the airlines are owner of the aircraft. It works for us. And this is why the confluence of our incentives comes together and it really works well. >>So what role has technology played in terms of evolving that that experience? I mean, I'm sure, you know, years ago, it used to be a lot of tribal knowledge. Gut feel. Joe the mechanic really knew his stuff. Etcetera, etcetera, Powers. Technology evolved and changed your your business. >>So you had to go back to the business model, right? So technology should follow. The business model business model is fundamental risk transfer. So we take the risk off cost, fluctuation, availability, whatever it is away from the airline and we take it on to us is the Obama's Rolls Royce said the money's at risk. You gotta get really good forecasting. Four. Custom becomes your core skill almost because you've got to understand all the risk drivers understand how to optimize him, understand out of work around that in order to have a successful business. And you can't forecast without data without digital twins without all I ot and cloud and all the while the enablers allow you to sort of new to new generations of capability. >>So you're forecasting what probability of, ah, component failure, the life of ah, failure. How long it takes to bring stuff back on sure >>cost really on three different levels. So we do an engine forecast which is looking at the health of the life of the components in the engine, looking for any reasons why the engine might be forced off the wing. We're looking at a fleet level. So we're looking at all of the things that might affect the global fleet in terms of maintenance demands need for overhaul of those such things. And we forecast that out after 30 years, really accurately, as an engine leaves the factory, we know pretty much within 90 something percent everything that engine is going to require from the maintenance 20 to 30 years and then a network level. We're forecasting the capacity demand that we then need to meet within our maintenance shops globally. >>Well, He's obviously Paul. Been progress, right? We used to fly with very common four engine plains across the pond right now. Two engines. In fact, you don't want to fly in the four engine to engine more reliable. >>You've You've been a Rolls Royce for over 15 years. What have you seen as a result of all this technology is predicted maintenance technology. What impact is that? Had on equipment of reliability on life cycle on fuel efficiency. >>Huge, huge. I think if you don't have the data and you don't have the digital twin kind of capability behind you, you have to treat every engine like it's the worst engine in the fleet because you don't have the data tell you it isn't right. So everything is treated extremely extreme conservatism. If you have the data and you have the models and you have everything else around you, you treat engines, individuals. They have individual histories, individual configuration, individual experiences. Because of individuals. You tailor your maintenance intervention to keep that engine flying as long as you can on, you don't have to be his conservative. You can weed that conservatism out of the process, and that means it stays on wing 40 50% longer. It's flying for the airline that much longer. Revenues. Passengers are flying. There's less disruption. >>So what do you What do you do with my f s? What's the what's >>So Because we created this intelligent engine kind of next generation leap forward in that capability, we need data. So we have, ah, program we call the Blue Data Threat. The blue data traded in a global initiative that we're rolling through all of our 200 plus airline customers. How do we form a win win transaction with the airlines? Give us better data will make smarter decisions. You'll see less disruption, more availability. We'll share our data. Back with you is an operator. So this is a very simple, very nice cashless transactions. So with my intern X, because we share a number of customers, Scott has got a number of airline customers. Big airline customers were operating the maintenance system. What way do together? Is reform a plug in? It's like for us. We can go to an airline, and we can say you have total care inside to borrow an intel phrase. So he complied into the rosary service is seamlessly automated. The data can flow very little burden or effort on to the I t group of the outline. The data flows into our organization. We do what we do when we can push our date again back into the airline systems with updated form, their availability >>so key to that key to that value, Jane is obviously that common customer base. But critical to the work that Rolls Royce stuns does is the accuracy and reliability of the data They get to inform their own performance analysis and maintenance, availability information and the eye if it's made installed. Base leverage is a very rich data from the return on experience of the engine utilization that Nick and is able to use this part of the Blue data threat offering back to their customers. And together we're able to deliver unprecedented levels of value to airline customers and optimizing the availability of their assets. >>Nick, have you? Are you finding new ways to monetize this data beyond just improving the customer experience, a bond with your customers or their new revenue avenues >>for you? So I think within this is absolutely key that everybody within this transaction recognizes this is this is not a revenue opportunity for Rosa. This is a cashless transactions because there's a lot of sensitivity that data belongs to the airline, right? So you have to be very clear and open. That data is driving Rolls Royce to make internal improvements, so we will save a little bit on our bottom line of delivering the service's they've already bought in order to get better. Outcomes of those service is so It's a little early for the service. You were thinking about >>this a little bit like security. In that sense, you know of bad guys are trying to get there. So So the good guys to share data. It's a cashless transaction, and everybody we >>believe is a market collaboration on data is got to be the way Ford's >>Scott could. You double click on the Ecosystem and A and D, obviously different from the sort of core traditional you know, e r. P world. The importance of the ecosystem may be what it looks like, described the >>That's an insightful question, Dave, certainly the partner ecosystem in inner space and defense is somewhat differentiated. I don't want to go so far as to say that it's unique, but it's somewhat differentiated from Corey RPS. As you duly noted partner, our four persecuted for four purpose capability around the critical process is for manufacturers. Maintainers on, uh, parts and subsystem supply organizations is all the potential, and it's a promise. But that value can only be realized to the collaboration with partners who doom or an aerospace and defense and just support delivery and implementation capability. They provide value added service is around business process, reengineering, change, enablement as well as their partners and co innovation as well. Certainly the collaboration we have with Rolls Royce is certainly a new level of collaboration around innovation that hasn't been seen before. So those partners are critical to our ability to deliver that value to our customers. Secondarily, we have our partners are actually a route to market in the traditional sense of referral system like you would see in Corriere P. But more importantly, as an indirect route to market as channels to their end customers, almost I s v ng. Our capability to support the delivery of service is to their customers. >>So it's the it's the manufacturers of the Plains, For example, it's the airlines themselves. It's manufactured the engine defectors, >>the maintainers. So the M R organizations that do the work around repair, and it's the entire ecosystem of organizations to support the supply chain. Our partners are both in themselves as well as partners in delivering the capability to those organizing. >>And it's a data pipeline throughout that value chain a digital thread that you guys actually have visibility on, correct your value. Add to the and >>we have the opportunity to play a vital role between within that equal system in allowing and enabling the connective ity of that network between Williams and their customers between the operators and their maintainers. For example, we've got a collaboration with an airline right now where we're going to connect them directly with the third party organizations that they rely on for airframe repair. For example, >>I want to ask you about the aerospace business it used to be that used to be a very small market in terms of the number of customers. Now we've got Space X. We've got the private areas, three private aerospace companies. We've got different countries now. India, China getting involved. What impact is that having on your business. >>Certainly we're seeing the emergence of spatial program's playing a taking up a larger share of off of government or public sector budgets. And people are beginning to think about how to leverage or harvest the value from utilization of spatial assets and again are enabling capability. To be a collector of that data and supply it back as an information in sight to those were reliant on the data that is collected is a vital role that we play in that ecosystem. >>So when I was when you were describing the ecosystem value chain, it strikes me that there's there's clearly a whole lot of metrics going on. Are there new levers, new metrics, emerging new levers that you can pull to really drive a flywheel effect in the industry? One of the key key performance indicators that you're really trying to optimize visiting? This is >>Certainly this is certainly an industry that characterizes as an intensive, complex mobile and in this case complex in mobile or a pseudonym for very expensive assets. So everything around availability, reliability are all key drivers are performance indicators of our customers ability to realise the value from those assets and our role in that is to provide them with the information inside to be able to make optimal decisions to maximize that availability. >>Anything you dad, >>I think in this day and age things like technical dispatcher alive. Relative engines is so high, high 99 sort of percentage. You have to start focusing on things like the maintenance costs to achieve that. Driving your maintenance costs down, but still retaining your really high availability. That becomes a really interesting balance. You could have under percent of relevancy. What it's gonna cost a fortune. You don't want that. >>Well, gentlemen, thanks so much for coming on. The cute, really fascinating discussion. Thank you. Great to have you. All right, you're welcome. And keep it right there, buddy. Paul Gill on day Volante from I F s World in Boston. You're watching the Cube right back Right after this short break

>> from Austin, Texas. It's Theo Cube, covering pure storage. Accelerate 2019. Brought to you by pure storage. >> Welcome back to the Cube, The leader and live tech coverage. I'm Lisa Martin with David Dante. We got a pretty cool guests coming up next, guys, you may have seen him here on the Q before. He has back Matt Harris, the head of I T for Mercedes AMG, Petronas Motor Sport. Matt, Welcome back. >> Often a >> way got the car over there with excitement. One of the coolest sports I've ever become involved with. Formula One is this incredible mix of technology strategy. All these crazy things you guys that Mercedes have been partners, customers a cure for about what? 45 years? >> 2015. As a customer, we became partners in 2016. >> I wonder if they like to save Mercedes AMG Petunias Motor Sport has had five consecutive years of both constructors championships driver's championships. You're a great position on both for 2019. It was a little bit of a history about the product that you put out on truck every other week and how pure storage is a facilitator of that. >> Yeah, okay, so it's an interest in a story for those that are interested in Formula One, because what you see on the track looks the same. But realistically, every time he goes out, the guarantee will be different. That level of difference could be a simple wing change or configuration, always based on data that we're learning from during a race again. But every week we also have a different car dependent on the track we're going to. So we have two different worlds that basically were to rate on a minute by minute, hour by hour and day by day at the track. But in the factory, that could be the same sort of it oration. But it could also be into weekly or monthly or year for a car. So all of that is based on data. So everything we do is that businesses revolves around data. We never make a change to the car without me now to back it up with empirical knowledge. Even if the driver turns around and tells us they feel something called, they believe something, we will always make sure we have data to back up that decision, So access to data is critical. Compute performance whether it's high performance, compute for our safety, for instance, whether it's for you as an end user, access to data is critical across everything that we do is time critical Time is our currency really as a business if we slow down your job? Generally, that probably means that you've got less time to make the correct decision. Or maybe you have to turn into a guess or a hunch, which that's never a good place to be in our sport. >> No, I would think not. >> I've I recall, from our conversation last year their rules that say, How many people you can have in your entourage like 60. I think it was yes, and at the time I think you said you got, like, 15 Allocated to data. Is that ratio kind of still holding? I >> still exactly the same in our tracks. On environment, they're still the same in the factory. We have more than that, depending on how many people on what time of day, what day of the week. So on a Friday race day, practice day, we can have a minimum. There'll be 30 people in our race support room will be looking at data along with those other 15. But you can have the whole Aargh department or design department or logistics. Whoever could still be looking at data from the track real time, so we can have as many as 4 to 500 looking at data if they want to. And if that's the right thing going on earlier in the season, you generally get more people looking As the season goes on. It's probably more aargh focused, maybe mechanically if we got something new, or maybe the engine division again in a completely separate building in the U. K 40 miles apart, they've got another set of people that will be looking and trolling through data riel time from the but looking really at the power unit rather than the chassis side. >> And you're generating, like roughly half a terabyte a weekend on a race weekend. Is that still about the same? Or is that growing a car >> perspective? It's just under half a terabyte, but we produce up to another half a terabyte of other supporting data with that GPS data, weather data, video, audio, whatever it would be other information to help with the strategy side of things So we're around 77 50 to 1 terabyte for race weekend, >> and each car has about 300 sensors. I think when we spoke with you last year, or maybe you're half ago is about 200 so that's increasing in terms of all the data being captured every race weekend. But one of the things that I love that matter sizes, you know, we're idea at Mercedes is not that unlike I t at other groups who really rely on high performance systems. But you do put out a new product every two weeks and this really extreme range of conditions, your product is extremely expensive as pretty sexy. Like the portability factor. You have to set up a tea shop, have any 20 weekends a year and set it up in what, 36 hours and take it down in six. >> And a nine year old joke about the taking it down in six is a bit like a Benny Hill sketch. It's obviously choreographed and, well, well rehearsed, but we have all the same systems as any normal business would have the tracks. That environment is very different, though we don't have air conditioning in so all the IittIe equipment has to work at the natural ambient air temperature of the country. We're in this year. Believe it or not, Germany and hungry have been our biggest challenge. We've had for the last 43 to 4 years because they had 45 degree air ambient air temperature. So forget humidity for a minute, which is Another kettle of fish probably affects us a bit more, maybe, than the systems, but we're only chucking that air as fast as we can across the components. So we're not putting any cooling into what is probably around the tolerance of most I T systems. So we have to rely basically on air throughput to terminate. Keep kit. Cool. Now the benefit with pure is actually doesn't create any heat, either. There's no riel heat generation, so it's quite tolerant, which helps us get it doesn't create Maur, but the environment we put it into is quite special. But what we're doing is what any business would want to do. Access toe email file systems. What we're trying to do is give it in a performance fashion. People need to make a decision. So in qualifying, for instance, those 300 sensors. That information that we've got from the car, we've got minutes to make a decision based on data. If it takes you too long to get the data off, you can't then look at the data to make a decision. So we have to make sure data in just from the car and then basically multi access from everybody in the factory or the track side is performance enough to make a decision before the car goes back out again. Otherwise, we're wasting track time. >> So you've always had data in this business. Early days was all analog, and it obviously progressed and thinking about what you want to do, Going forward with data. What kind of information or capabilities don't you have? Where that technology in the future could address >> s so interesting. One is technology of the future. If you know what it is, let me know with what we know right now, I think a lot of it's gonna be about having the ability to have persistent storage. But actually the dynamic of the compute resource eso looking at things like kubernetes or anything like that to turn around and have dynamic resource spin up as and when required to do high performance computer calculations based on the data, maybe to start giving us some automated information, I'm gonna be careful of the M l A. I is for our businesses, it's not quite as simple as others because our senior management very technically capable, and they just see it as advanced statistical analysis. So unless you program, it is not gonna give you an answer. Now we've started to see some things this year were actually the computer is teaching us things we didn't ask it to. So we have got some areas where we're beginning to learn that. That's not necessarily the case now, but for us that access to data moving forward, it's probably gonna be compute. Combined with that underlying storage platform, there's going to be critical onstage. You you heard Robin people talking about the ability to have that always present storage layer with the right computer. That's something for us is going to be critical, because otherwise we're gonna waste money and have resource sat doing nothing. >> Is security >> an issue for you? I mean, it's an issue for everybody, but there isn't a game of honor because you got this, you know, little community that you guys trying to hack each other systems. >> So it's an interesting one inside the sport, Actually, no. Because a few years ago there was a very high profile case where data went between two teams and there was £100 million fine's exclusion from the sport for a season. So that's that's >> too big. You don't mess with that. >> But also, if you think of that from our perspective, we've got the Daimler star on here. We cannot afford to have any of that Brenda brand reputational rubbing off on Damon's. So that's a no no other teams I can't talk for. But we're all fairly sensible between ourselves. What will be interesting moving forward is what technologies air in our sport, but actually of the whether their motor manufacturers or not, is their technology in there that they're interested in. Maybe the battery technology from the power unit side of things is that the power unit itself. So are other things actually more interesting to those other >> places. It legal for you, you know, by the rules of sports, a monitor, just data or captured data, whether it's visual, whatever from your competitors. Eso anything, >> this public? Yes, it's fair game. Okay, so we get given all the teams. Actually, we get a standard set of three or four different streams of information around GPS timing on some video feeds and audio feeds on their publicly consumable by the team's. When I say public for a second on those feeds, we can do what we like. You know that there for us to infer information, which we do a lot off, is what helps our strategy team to turn around and actually predict what we might or might not need to do as far as a pit stop or tire degradation. >> And that's where the human element must come into understanding the competent, like to football coaches who who know each other right? >> Well, yes. And now, if you think if you add to that the human element off Well, what happens if one team strategy person changes? Are they gonna make a different call based on the same data? Is their hunch different? Do they think they know better within a team? You can have that discussion. So what happens in another team where they're cars, not as performance so their mindset. Maybe they're thinking differently. Or maybe a team's got the most performance car of the moment and they think that they're going to do X. And we're like, Well, we're gonna do something different than to try and actually catch them out. So do we. Now don't do the normal thing. >> So let's hope >> Gamification I love it. >> Let's look at all. Make a prediction. 2019 is gonna be another Mercedes AMG way. So at the end of the season, all of the data that you have collected from the cars, all the sensors, all the weather data, GPS, et cetera how does pure facilitate in the off season the design of the 2020 car, for example, Where does where does things like computational fluid dynamics? >> Okay, so all of our production data is on pure, whether it's on a ray or blade somewhere, it's on pure storage across the site. So they're involved. Whether you're talking about design, whether you're talking about final element analysis for hyper a ll, the C f. D. Using high performance computer systems, everything some pure so from that point of view, is making sure we're using the right resource in the right place to get the best performance. Now, see if he's an interesting one because we're regulated by the F A a. About the amount of compute that weaken you. He's now. Because of that, you want it to be as efficient as you possibly can. It's not speed but the efficient use off CPU time. So if a CPU is waiting for data, that's wasted, Okay, so for us, it's trying to make sure that whole ecosystem is as efficient as we can. That's obviously an integral part of everything we do, so whether we're wind tunnel testing, whether we're in the dino, the simulators, but everything basically comes back to trying to understand and correlate the six or seven different places we generate data, trying to make sure that when there's a change in the simulator, we understand that change in the real world or in a diner or in safety. So all of that, what pure do is allow us to have that single place to go and look how I perform and always available. And for me, I don't have to have a story. Jasmine. Yeah, we've got a team of people that actually are thinking about that for us at Pure, You know, there is invested in us these days. Yeah, I walk around here, I'm very fortunate. I get to see all of the senior guys here and there. They are asking me what's going on and how's things with sequel Oracle Because they know exactly what we're doing and they're they're trying to say what's coming. So things like object engine Pierre So we've been talking to pure about using that over the coming months. But what? We're not having it at the moment. Go out and learn it. Actually, they coming in and they're telling us all about it. So they become a virtual extension to my team, which is just amazing. >> Yeah, far more efficient. You're able to focus on a much more things that drive value for the business. As we look at some of the things like the Evergreen business model. What were some of the big ah ha we hear is the right solution for us back in 2015. Is that >> so? Evergreen and love. Your stories were two things at the time that we're just incredible for us because love your storage was basically you could have an array and basically you could use it. And there was no commitment, no anything. But if you like that, you could keep it, obviously, paying for it. Ah, nde. When we did that in the factory, basically, within a week of being in there that the team were like, Whoa, hang on, that's going nowhere. So that was That was a nice, easy one. But Evergreen was an interesting one, which has only really, truly for me. I've always bought into it. But the last probably 18 months we've used it time and time and time again because the improvements with the speed of light x 90 coming envy Emmy drives. When we were looking at capacity, what we did was we turned round and said, Well, actually, we can buy more dense units in the next 90 so we're only buying the extra capacity, but we were getting new technology. So nations, all the innovation that you're putting into their products were getting it. So today, when they were talking about the memory based access, and if your things always sat there going, I can use that. Oh, and there's no there's no work for me, there's no effort. The only thing I gotta worry about is whether I've got capacity for that. Those modules to go in. So Evergreen has worked several times because I don't have to go back to the cap export and go. Could I have another x £1,000,000 please? Why? I need some more storage. Yeah, but you bought some of the other day. Yeah, well, that one. I need to get rid of it because I need a bigger one. And I don't have to do that. Now. I just go in. I'm telling them what the increases for which actually, they can choose Then if they want to increase, they know what the business benefit is rather than just I t has got to turn around and either replace it because of age or the new version doesn't support is not an uplift, not upgrade from the old. One >> I've seen was looking at some of your stats and the case study that's currently online on. Imagine these numbers have gone up 68% reduction in data center Rackspace and saving £100,000 a year and operating costs >> those that would have been probably two years ago. Ish roughly those figures. And the operating cost is a huge improvement for us. Cap Ex is probably the biggest one for me. They were moving forward with cost caps coming into Formula One. That type of thing is gonna be invaluable. Does not happen to do a forklift upgrade of your storage. Well, I wouldn't know what I would do if I had to upgrade what I now own from pure I can't even imagine what? I don't want to turn around town my bosses what that's >> gonna cost. Well, it sounds like you really attacked the op X side with R and D with pure r and D. I kind of like that shifting, you know, labor toe are Andy because you don't want to spend labour on managing storage a raise, make no sense for your business. Okay. What do you want? Pure toe spend? R and D are now, what problem can they saw for? You mean >> so racy is gonna help If I'm really honest, that's actually is gonna help fill a whole quite well for us because we weren't really sure what to put some of that less hot data we were like, Well, where we going to start to put this now? Because we were beginning to fill up the array and the blades. Actually, with a racy no, we can actually use that different class of storage actually, to keep it still online. Still be out to do some machine learning A. I in the future when that comes around. But actually I can now have Maur longevity out of my existing array and blades. So that's brilliant and coming, I think, having I need to be careful, I know some things that are coming. Uh, the active sinking array is brilliant, and we've been using that since it came out. Having that similar or same ability in Blade when it comes will be a very advantageous having those played enclosures. We've gone to multi chassis flash played over the last six weeks, so that for us is great. Once we can start to synchronize between those two, then that's ah, that's another big one for us, for resiliency, for fault, tolerance, but also workload movement. That thing I said about persistent stories, layer, I'm not gonna need to care where it is, and it will be worked out by the storage in the orchestration layer so it can have the storage in the computer in the right place. >> Wow. Great story, Matt, as always. And I think it's Pierre calls this the unfair advantage coming to life. Best of luck for the rest of the 2019 season. >> I'll take it. >> All right, We'll see you next time. >> Thank you. >> Keep before >> for David Dante. I am Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube from Cure Accelerate in Austin, Texas.