>>from Las Vegas. It's the cues covering quality security Conference 2019. Bike. Wallace. >>Hey, welcome back it. Ready? Geoffrey here with the Q worth the Bellagio Hotel in Las Vegas for the quality security conference. This thing's been going on for 19 years. I had no idea. It's our first time here, but it's pretty interesting out. Felipe and the team have evolved this security company over a lot of huge technological changes and security changes, and they're still clipping along, doing a lot of cool things in cloud and open source. We're excited of our next guest. She's Laurie McCarthy, the EVP of worldwide field >>operations. Lori, great to see you. >>Thanks. Glad to be here. >>Absolutely. So first off, congratulations in doing some homework for this. I was going through the earnings call. The last turning call, which A was a nice earnings call. You're making money buying back stock. Also, you were promoted or the announcement of your promotion on that call and really some nice, complimentary words from Philippe and the team about the work that you've done actually >>very grateful. Thank you. And >>one of the things we >>talked about, which is unique in your background as you came from a customer. Not It's always a day ago. These shows we have people that I came from customers that went to the vendor, and then we have people that rest of Endor and they went over to the customers. There's a lot of that kind of movement, but he really complimented your execution at CVS as a big reason why you got the promotion that you did. So again. Congrats. But let's talk about, you know, kind of the CVS experience from when you were running it. Not when you're on the quality side. Yeah, that the threats. And CBS is in class nationwide, all kinds of stuff. >>Yeah, well, I mean, you know, just like any other company that's in that health care vertical, you've got so many different things to think about. Additionally, we were also in the retail vertical, so we had a lot of compliance. E's to worry about p c p c i p. I s O. A lot of the programs had been very much, uh, checkbox driven prior to the team that moved in there, including myself, and kind of changed that. So I helped to rebuild the vulnerability program there. And we started to do it in such a way that it was for the sake of security, not just checking a box. And we were really innovated how they do things. A lot of my friends are still there, and they have their own stock now, and we kind of brought everything in house. So a lot of that was outsourced. >>So what was the catalyst to make the change To move from beyond simple compliance and check in the box, Actually making a strategic part of the execution? >>Yeah, at the time and a new sea so had been put into place. And it was someone with that vision, and I think that's what really drove it. I came in just after that and was brought in on the premise that this is what we're going to change and move toward. So I was part of that process from that >>point, right? It clearly, qualities was part of the solution. So what? What did you use calls for their and how is the solution changed? You know, kind of >>so back then when >>you want to call it, >>we're talking. In 9 4010 2011 Right around there. If you opened up the quality platform, you had three things to choose from. Versus today, when you log in, you've got 18 or more, depending. And S O CVS used a little bit of all of that with the mainstay having been the vulnerability management. So I ran to full vulnerability management programs there because we had to keep our pharmacy benefit company and our retail companies separate. So I sort of did double duty, >>Right? So what you doing now on field operations? >>So is the E V p of worldwide for Wallace. I'm running all of the technical account managers for our company way have a unique sales model here, so it's a little different. So everyone in the field to service is our clients rolls up to me, and then that also includes some additional teams, like our federal team, our strategic alliances team and also our subject matter experts >>today. So you said a couple >>times you guys have your account management structure is different than maybe traditional. Kind of >>walk through. Yeah, absolutely. So versus a traditional sales model. We have a salesperson. You have client service person. You have a technical, you know, social architect kind of person. We service our clients all with one person. We have a technical account manager. We break them up into two flavors. We have a presales who are very technical folks that go out and help us get our business. And then those accounts get handed over to our post sales, who are basically the farmers in our business, maintaining and growing our existing clients. What that allows for, which is really special, is we can go in and really build a relationship built on trust and understanding and strategy, because we bring people into our company like myself who have done this, who have sat on that side of the table. So you know, someone comes in and says What? You know, how would you like to buy one of my gizmos? It's a lot different conversation when it's like, Look at what I do with this gizmo like it's amazing. So it's It's kind of a similar feeling that you guys >>have your kind of platform with application strategy enables you to kind of do a land and expand, and in fact you even a something that people can try for free. >>Yeah, absolutely. So we review our model as, like, try and buy. So for both our non clients are freemium service is that we offer our, you know, out of this world for people being able to just log in without even being a client and start to evaluate their environment. And then when they see the value that we bring, it's very easy to translate that into a buy and then likewise, for our clients who sign up for a service or two enabling additional trials and having them work within our new service is as they're being rolled out, is very, very simple, the way our platform is built. So it's just it's a really effortless, very natural progression of business that we that we built. And it's one of the reasons that I work here because as a client, I really enjoyed my relationship with this company because it never felt like I was being sold anything. It always felt like I was being handed solutions to my challenges, and that's what we tried to do. And that's how I lead everyone today is Let's get out, Let's listen, let's strategize and let's see where we fit in with folks, right strategies for, you know, the coming >>future. So must be a team >>approach, though, right? Because one person you know to say, trying to manage the CVS account, that would be, >>Oh, so we have a little bit of a break out in our post side. We have what a new role that I helped get implemented here at the company, which is a major account solution architect they handle are bigger, more complex accounts. So as our platform has matured, so have our clients are bigger. Clients are using more of our platform. They're using it in a more expert way. So we had to answer that with the right kind of people who could speak to that expert level of usage and be able to finance that. So that's a little bit part of it. And on our bigger clients, we do have more of a team approach. We have a product management, a project management organization. The S M E team are subject matter. Experts roll up under me. They're experts in each of our solutions. So it's a sizeable team and they are liaise between product management, engineering our fields and our clients. And that's another support mechanism. And then our support at Wallace is also something that augments our technical account managers jobs on a daily basis. >>So new opportunity with a sure that was recently announced a bundle. Yeah, you're bundled in kind of under the covers, not not really under the covers. So a little bit about how that's gonna work from kind of an account management and and from your kind of point of view, >>So it's It's actually not gonna change much of anything on the way that we are. Mom are our model is a hybrid, right? So we have direct sales that we have indirect sales, even honor in direct sales through partners through relationships like we've just built with azure MSs peas and reach whatever. We still treat every end customer and every partner like a direct customer. So we work very hard to educate her partners, to work with them, to make sure they're successful with our clients. And we're also treating our clients who are through that avenue the same way. So it's it's just gonna blend right in with what we >>d'oh Yeah, that's great, but hopefully it's a sales channel and they get more than they just bought it under the covers and start implementing. >>It's easy for them to jump in with us. And then from there we can build those relationships with perhaps, you know, prospects and folks that aren't our clients now and be able to show them more things that we do. Besides just, you know, the one thing that they might be signing up for at that time, >>right? Right. Okay, great. I want to shift gears a little bit. >>We had windy by front earlier from from Nutanix. When he's a fantastic lady, yes, and she is super super involved in in girls Who Code and women in Tech and trying to drive that kind of forward along a number of parameters everything from the board to getting people jobs, training little girls to staying at staying in the industry. I know that's a big, passionate area of yours. I wonder if you could share some of the activities you guys were doing around women. I could think more specifically, and security is a subset of all tech, but share the some of the activities you have going on. >>So personally, I try to be very involved locally. Four Children. One of them is a daughter. She's too little, quite yet for getting into tact. I have two older sons and s so I try to be really involved in middle school high school. Hey, put me in, Coach, I'll come in and talk to the kids. Generating interest in getting into this field at a young age is what we need to do. They're still aren't enough gals and, honestly, guys heading into our business in college. So I I really take it upon myself as a security professional to try to promote that specifically around women. I'm really pleased that our company supports an organization which I've been a part of for a while, and that's the Executive Woman's Forum, and we sponsor their conference every year, and we sponsor events with them. I personally am part of their mentor program, so that allows me a channel. Thio have ah, unassigned person to work with, and I really enjoy that, and our company itself is just very excellent at promoting and enabling women within our organization. And it's another reason that I really loved working here for the past eight years, >>right? Well, from the top. Because the board, I think, is either for more than half. Yemen, which is certainly half >>women CEO, is very supportive. Our presidents, two men way have a great environment. Thio grow women professionally here in my company, >>right? That's great. So, ah, year from now, when we come back, what are we gonna be talking about? What's kind of on a road map? For the next year, >>we're going to be talking about our data leak efforts, or Sim. We're gonna be talking about our improved Edie, our capabilities that are really gonna put us in the position to be a major player in that market. Um, and who knows? We have such a quick turnaround of innovation here and what we do by the way we do our business. So starting with the technical account manager's boots on the ground with our clients, when we're there listening to all of their challenges, we're also taking that back, and that drives our innovation that the company so we hear what they need, and that's what we provide. So as things changed, we're going to continue to do that digital transformation, of course, is is making that something that we have to be even quicker about. And I think we're doing a good job >>keeping up well. 19 years and counting, making money. Find back, buying back shares to help everyone else's stock delusion. So not that, but nothing but good success. It's all right. Well, Laurie, thanks for taking a few minutes of your day. And again, congratulations on your promotion as well as a terrific event. >>Thank you very much. >>All right. She's Laurie. I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube with the quality security conference at the Bellagio and lovely >>Las Vegas. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>> from Austin, Texas. It's Theo Cube, covering your storage. Accelerate 2019. Brought to you by pure storage. >> Howdy, y'all Welcome back to the cubes. Coverage of Day one of pure accelerate 19 from Austin, Texas. I'm Lisa Martin. My co host is Day Volonte. We got a couple of gentlemen here chatting with us. Next, we've got one of our alumni. Mike Bundy's back head of Cisco Worldwide alliances for appear. Mike. Welcome back. >> Thank you. >> Sporting the very dapper >> It's not ours today, but it's enough. >> I like it. Very subtle on we've got Andrew Tenant joining us for the first time Senior manager Worldwide sales at Cisco Andrew, Welcome to the Cube. >> Thanks for having us. >> So we know we've had lots of conversations with Cisco and Cure Isis. Go live. Just a few months ago, Mike was on with this bright orange blazer. You guys have been partners for about four years now, Mike, let's start with you and talk about the evolution of that partnership from Bogota Market. A field A sales perspective, right? Overall partnership. How are things going? >> Well, things were great from a mo mentum perspective. We're we're on track to eclipse You know, I'm not supposed talk about a lot of numbers, but in the next year we will eclipse together a billion dollar run rate >> with partnership, which is tremendous milestone >> in a 4 to 5 year regulations. So things were, well, you know, it started from the field and what customers were requiring. And now, in the last, um, year, we've we've added about six new CDs were up to 22 we have three in the queue between now and the calendar year. So in terms of the growth, the product development and momentum, it's it's tremendous. And what we'll talk about today will be kind of one of the next generations and errors that that will hit on regarding this. >> And you guys were also we had a conversation a little bit ago with with Nathan Hall. Really, this partnership with Cisco and Pure is now getting started in the field, as you were talking about, but it's all the way down into the engineering level in terms of being very pervasive throughout. You guys have really achieve that. Yes, >> Yeah, top to bottom, right From From that field, engagement began. It was watching our customers embrace purest innovation. Right? And everywhere you turned pure was showing up, and it was it was really the field. Say, Hey, we got to get on board with this. And Tim Shanahan, who's part of our correctional organization on the descent aside, said, Hey, this is a big deal. We need to get in front of this thing. So that's really you. Mention where it started. And now we're doing everything from integrating products, right, integrating management tools to try to bring that together for our customers. And it's It's an awesome partnership. >> Absolutely. So where's the product focus. Where do we start? >> Yes, so you joked, right? Fibre channel. I think I remember Fibre Channel from many years ago. It Cisco, and then you look back and suddenly it's not dead, right? The truth is, five channels the best protocol for mission critical storage traffic that's ever been built. It's probably best critical out there for that. It's not sexy, though, right, so we can't took our eye off the ball at Cisco. But as we now develop these next generation storage technologies, there's never been a more important time to bring that switching fabric into play right It's absolutely critical that we have the right tools to accomplish what our customers trying to deliver from applications standpoint. So the agility, the visibility, just the overall performance is more important today. That was back in sort of that the heyday of fibre channel, if you will. Right? So the partnership that we're working on right now is making sure that we're we're maximizing the outcome of these investments. Custer's making with all of yours storage offerings, leveraging a sand infrastructure that's compatible with it and really gonna make it sing. >> And you're right and you go back 10 plus years and it was a vice scuzzy was coming in, but had some f f C bigots is that I will never hang on to win the NFC. Oh, we now you got N v m e over fabric. We'll talk about that. But so from pure perspective, you have always had to pay attention to that segment of the market. Guys went hard after the high end. Of'em sees business, which was heavy fiber channel, absolutely early days. >> Yeah, I mean four out of five of our razor attached fibre channel to a customer's environment. It is core to what we do. And we're excited about the resell opportunity that we just started with pure because, you know, Andrew and I joke last week, but we put pen to paper in terms of we believe our our introduction of this is a re silk and help them grow their sand business by 35 40%. And that's the kind of disruption that we're seeing with our A raise in the market. And we think because of how we're evolving customers to modernize those networks, that we can drag the Sisko Fibre Channel business right along with it. >> This is a sorry Mike. This is a re sell pure reselling wth the MDS product line. How is you the pure Channel? Responding to this news? >> They love it because it's it's a new buying center, you know that they're getting to talk to Ah, and it helps us, you know, establish Maur, you know, understanding the customers, whole business, not just from a storage perspective. So >> So how was envy? Emmy changing landscape? What do you guys seeing there? I mean, you guys, I think the first another first Charlie didn't mention it today on stage, So money first. It's hard to keep track of. But how is that affecting? You know what's going on in the field? >> Yeah. So I mean, again, it's the timing of this generational shift to next. Gen. Sarge, envy me being probably the most critical of that. If we look at what happened with all flash A raise, for example, all of those ended up on critical mission critical workloads and all ended up on fibre Channel 80. 85% of those end up on that legacy technology because it was so capable of getting the job done. Envy me is gonna take us another leap forward so customers will be challenged toe have something that lives both in the what they have today and bridges them to that future proof state. Right? So it's absolutely critical that you have tools that are gonna let you adopt envy me as it makes sense on carry it operationally alongside the same modality that you had for those workloads in the past, right? That's the key. Is that the folks we're gonna own this stuff going forward to the ones who own it now, right? Just with maybe older technology >> and the business impact is what you could do more with less performance, lower costs, more >> last performance, visibility right so you can help. Troubleshoot way had a situation not that long ago where a customer had Honore, not it was a competitive ray, right? It was getting hammered and it was locking up. And when they looked at the the forensics coming off, the rate said they had 4000 I ops off of that array. A very nominal amount. It should have been the problem. It shifted the focus elsewhere. Well, using some of the telemetry built into the MPs platform, it was obvious that there were 25,000 I ops hitting that array because VM, where was doing a lot of command control traffic to the array. So having that visibility at the's scales and speeds, if you don't know what you're doing, you can't see what's going on. You could be flying blind and struggling and everybody loses there. So >> you know we're excited about this because we don't want to bring our rays into an environment that's not suited for high end performance and reliability, cause that's what we've kind of made our brand on when it comes to customer networks, especially with the X 60 and nineties that we launched the year ago. They're all envy me ready. So we want to make sure that, as we did, ploy that that the entire infrastructure's ready and Cisco, in my opinion, has the best. Every product is 64 gig capable. It's envy me today. And so we're ready, you know, envy me, you know, in the end, if you will. So when when the host are ready to take advantage of this full network and full storage system, we're ready. Um, an Andrew also mentioned analytics. So, you know, >> we we >> extract ourselves on the analytics capabilities of our system as it works today with after one and so that allows us to, you know, very quickly using machine learning solve most of our customers problems. In fact, we open about 85% of our own customers tak cases for them because we predict when things were going to get rough and bumpy. So as we extend and bridge that together with what Cisco has and their Sandwich Analytics capability, it's gonna make the experience way different than it would be on a competitive sand fabric and a competitive storage array, whether it's flash or not. So that's that's what we're doing together, which makes fiber Channel better and more unique than it has been in the past. >> In terms of adoption. You mentioned when the host guys already, What's the blocker? There's just silicon. Is it just, >> you know, you could You could take Cisco's example. You know, they're they're looking at the new memory technology. And how do they apply that to the interface adapter? And how do you handle that situation? So, you know, as they evolve their next platform, it will be pervasive in that. And I'm sure that the other you know, host providers are gonna be doing >> standards standards. Low hanging fruit was envy me over converge Ethernet, right, because that was kind of the first place to start. But reality is weaken were the only vendor who can provide both of those in the Cisco side. Right. So we have the same tooling on the same, actually administrative tooling on on either. Right. So that's ah, terrific. >> And it's not just the infrastructure from the hostess, the operating system as well. So you know Lennox can take advantage of it in a different way. So, you know, we're seeing most of our deployments today, our fibre channel over Ethernet, because the the customer base that air deploying that are purely a Linux based environment. So they're able to do that. So, as you know, not all of our enterprising and commercial customers run that environment. So it's It's a little bit of the technology. It's a little bit of the Intel cycle. It's a little bit of the operating system, but the point is, we're ready. And there's a long, long road map. You know, for customers if we go this route, >> when should customers start thinking about this terms >> immediately? Right? Ultimately, it's not a question of if it's a question of when, but if they're, if they're getting things ready now, if you're making investment today, you can make an investment today that accommodates what you're doing today. Like back in the day. If we were selling a storage platform, the sandwich is sort of this necessary thing behind the scenes. That wasn't necessarily you could actually let it sit there for a couple of generations of the storage it was supporting. That's no longer going to be the case right, because, quite simply, the evolution on the storage front. And it's so much faster that you need to make sure the thing you're plugging it into. That's a simple question for any customer there. What'd you plugging this into right? Because at the end of the day, if it's just that that old san you have sitting around it may or may not be capable. Regardless of Endor, right, it's it's gonna actually diminished value you get in the time value of that investment you've made in this incredible platform. >> So where are you having these customer conversations that we talk about the joint go to market in the field? You know, it's It's not just about fibre channel and speed and storage, these air business critical work loads that are being protected and run and access to be able to extract all these insights. When you're talking with customers, where are you? You're not at the storage. I've been level. I imagine this is a much more business intensive conversation. It's a >> great question. Go ahead. >> So I think you know people that are driving the cloud platform strategy for the infrastructure. They obviously need to understand how. How does this work in a hybrid cloud or multi cloud environment? Then you've got, you know, the people that are developing the mission Mission critical business APS. Whether that's you know, Oracle s a p et cetera, et cetera. But it's also the non traditional business APS that are coming to play things that leverage stores that are file or object oriented, or kubernetes or things like that. It's so you're having discussions with the teams that are deploying the apse for the business and that will drive and dictate the requirements. Is that you know, we're trying to help the infrastructure on the cloud infrastructure teams adapt to >> multi cloud piece gets interesting here, right? Because us now talk about building massively scalable distributed systems, and you're not gonna be able to You don't want to necessarily ship all your data around, but you want to ship the metadata and be smart enough to know where the data is so you can go ship to compute right to the data, right? And I >> think that that's another interesting thing. And a positive aspect of leveraging some things we've already done with Cisco is you know they have the concept of a C I anywhere. No, you know, just like we're doing with Cloud Block store of extending that storage capability into the cloud. Cisco has done the same with a C I. So it's not just it's not sure, making sure the workload in the data payload our mobile, but also the application. And that's, you know, yes, that that may not be the case today for Fibre Channel, but the technology is there if the customer demands it. So that's 60% of Cisco's revenue in the data center comes from his networking core. That's what we're more excited about. The next generation's partnership is we feel like we've done a good job and built momentum with the computer part of their business, and I think as we evolve into this part of the business, it's gonna It's gonna be better for customers. In the end, >> it's either today, customers gonna spend more time operating this than anything, right, and really, that's all about visibility. Meantime, the resolution just how quickly they can make sure that those this thing's running and and as proactively get in front of congestion and issues at a time if they can. So it's Ah, it's a complimentary hardware software problem solved. You have to be able to do things at extremely high rates of speed with visibility I've never seen before. So analytics built into a six incredibly important stuff to get that streaming right out of the chip so you could tell what's going on at any level of the stack. Where is Like I said today, we've seen many cases now where their challenges in the network and in the sand and on the array and everyone's blind to it because our >> engineers love it because the monitoring and the scoping capability that were required, a lot of sand fabrics to deploy would require extra tools. Extra tap kits Cisco has at built in the A six so literally. It's just enable that with software. And you can do all the diagnostics you ever wanted to do at the at the wire and the fiber level, >> as opposed to a discreet probe. Exactly a disruptive drives the >> costs way out. The complexity reduces risk troubleshooting floor space, you know, the whole you know >> that's big time >> based. So today there's an issue. Last night Hey, Mike, what happened last night? I know. Let me know. That happens again. That's pretty much the ticket Close, right? We could actually go back in time now kind of a DVR and actually see now for the first time in a sand fabric what's actually happening and go back and reconstruct it to figure out how we proactively prevent it going on from the next time. So >> so, Mike, Last question. We're out of time. But last question for you. Everybody says future proof. Pardon? Everybody says future proved how are is pure delivering that with Cisco. What is it gonna mean to that business leader that I have an infrastructure in place that will truly be the food? Your proof? >> Good question. So you know, it's evergreen is the term that pure uses for you know what we do. So you never buy the same storage twice, right? And if you look at the platform that Cisco has for MDS, it is clearly capable to 400 gig capability. And today most networks are purchased for 30 to get capable with 16 gig optics, so they have 32 64. There's a long way to go here so the platform and their innovation will continue this to be, you know, a future proof network that marries up with our evergreen story. So we were excited We wouldn't get in this relationship if we felt that it was not gonna provide the same level of benefits and standard that we have for our own customers. So >> correct. Mike Andrew. Thank you for joining David me on the Q. But way. Look forward to hearing what happens in your five of the pure Cisco relationship. I know. We'll probably stay tuned. I know we'll see you again. Thank you for your time. Thanks for David. Dante. I Lisa Martin. You're watching the cue from pure accelerate 19.

[Music] live from cambridge massachusetts extracting the signal from the noise it's the cube covering the MIT chief data officer and information quality symposium now your host dave Volante and paul Gillett hi buddy welcome back to Cambridge Massachusetts we're at MIT Paul Gillan and myself are here for two days and we're really pleased to have sandy Pentland on he's the director of MIT Media labs entrepreneurship program just coming off a keynote mr. Alex sandy Pentland Spellman thanks for coming with you how'd you get that name sandy was that the color you know my dad was named Alex too so I had to get the diminutive so Alexander turns into Zander or Sasha or sandy ah excellent so man it's stuck so we learned from your keynote today that like your mom said hey if every other kid jumps off the bridge do you and the answer should be yes why is that well if your other friends or presumably as rational as you and have same sort of values as you and if they're doing something that looks crazy they must have a piece of information you don't like maybe Godzilla is coming bridges come and it really is time to get off but and so so while it's used as a metaphor for doing the irrational things it's actually shows that using your social context can be most rational because it's a way of getting information that you don't otherwise have so you broke down your talk to chief data officers and new types of analysis smarter organizations smarter networks and then really interesting new new architecture if we could sort of break those down sure you talked about sort of networks not individual nodes as really should be the focus to understand behavior can you unpack that a little well it's a little bit like the bridge or metaphor you know a lot of what we learn a lot of our behavior comes from watching other people we're not even conscious of it but you know if everybody else starts you know wearing a certain sort of shoe or or you know acting in a certain or using a phrase in business like all these new sort of buzz phrases like oh you have to - because it's to fit in it means something it's it's part of being hyper formants and being part of your group but that's not in data analytics today today what they look at is just your personal properties not what you're exposed to and the group that you're part of so they would look at the guy on the bridge and they say he's not going to jump because he doesn't have that information but on the other hand if all of other people who like him are making a different decision he probably is going to jump and your research has been you dig into organizations and you've found the relationship between productivity and this type of analysis has been pretty substantial very substantive offenses a ssin and outside of the organization dealing with customers so people focus on things like personality history various sort of training things like that what we find is compared to the pattern of interaction with other people so who do you talk to when and what situations those other factors are tiny they're often a whole order of magnitude less important than just do you talk to all the people in your group do you talk outside of your group do if you violate the org chart and talk to other people if you do you're almost certainly one of the high productivity high innovation people so what what impact does this have or were the implications of this on organizations which historically have been have been highly Madonn hierarchies reporting structures all of these institutions that we evolved in the post-world War two ERA is this working against their productivity well what they did is is they set some simple rules in that they could deal with and wrap their head around but what we find is that those simple rules are exactly the opposite of what you need for innovation and because really what they're doing is they're enforcing silos they're enforcing atomization of the work and everybody talks about we need to be more fluid we need to be more innovative we need to be able to move faster and what that requires is better communication habits and so what we find when we measure the communication habits is that that's exactly right better communication habits lead to more innovative organizations what's really amazing is almost no organization does it so people don't know does everybody talk to everybody in this group do they talk outside of the group there's no graphic there's no visualization and when you give a group a visualization of their pattern of organization of communication they change it and they become more innovative they become more productive I'm sure you're familiar with holacracy this idea that of doing away with with organizational boundaries and sort of do titles and sure everybody talks to everyone is that in your view a better way to structure an organization think that's too extreme but it's headed in the right direction I mean so what we're talking first of all people try to do this without any data so you know everybody's the same well everybody really isn't the same and how would you know if you're behaving as well as the same as other people or I mean there's no data so so what I'm suggesting is something that's sort of halfway between the two yeah you can have leaders you can have organization in there but you also have to have good flow of ideas and what that means is you have to make talking outside your org chart a value it's something you're rewarded for it means that including everybody in the loop in your organization is something you ought to be rewarded for and of course that requires data so the sorts of things we do with peoples we make displays could just be piece of paper that shows the patterns of communication and we give it to everybody and you know what people actually know what to do with it when you give it to them they say well gee you know this group of people is all talking to each other but they're not talking to that group maybe they ought to talk to each other it's that simple but in the lack of data you can't feel so you instrumented people essentially with let's badges and you could measure conversations at the watercooler yeah they're their frequency their duration not the content not the content just that's the activity just is it happening right and is it happening between groups just just people from this group go to that other groups water cooler stuff like that and that actually is enough to really make a substantial difference in the corporation and you gave an example of you were able to predict trending stories on Twitter better than the internal mechanism and Twitter did I understand that Kerina so what we've done by studying organizations like this and coming up with these sort of rules of how people behave so the notion that people learn from each other and that it's the patterns of communication that matter you can encode that along with machine learning and suddenly you get something that looks like machine learning but in many ways it's more powerful and more reliable and so we have a spin-out called Endor and what that does is it lets your average guy who can use a spreadsheet do something that's really competitive with the best machine learning groups in the world and that's pretty exciting because everybody has these reams of data but what they don't have is a whole bunch of PhDs who can study it for six months and and come up with a machine learning algorithm to do it they have a bunch of guys that are smart know the business but they don't know the machine learning so it endured doesn't supply something like a spreadsheet to be able to allow the normal guy to do as good as the machine learning guys there's a lot of focus right now on anticipating predicting customer behavior better a lot of us been focused on on individuals understanding individuals better is that wrongheaded I mean should marketers be looking more at this group theory and treating customers more as buckets of similar behaviors it's not it's not buckets but treating people as individuals is is a mistake because while people do have individual preferences most of those preferences are learned from other people it's keeping up with the Jones it's fitting in its it's learning what the best practice is so you can predict people better from the company they keep than you can from their demographics always virtually every single time you can do better from the company they keep than from the standard sort of data so what that means is when you do analysis you need to look at the relationships between people and at one level it's sort of obvious you analyze somebody personally without knowing something about their relationships right about you know the type of things they do the places they go those are important but they're usually not in the data and what I find is I do this with a lot of big organizations and what I find is you look at their data analytics it's all based on individuals and it's not based on the context to those individuals absolutely I want to ask you further about that because when I think of the surveys that I fill out they're always about my personal preference Yahoo I want to do I can't remember ever filling out a survey that asked me about what my peer group does are you saying that those are the questions we should be asking yeah exactly right and of course you want to get data about that you want to know if if you go to these locations all the time to go to that restaurant you go to this sort of entertainment who else goes there what are they by what's trending in your group because it's not the general population and these not necessary people I know but they're people I identify with Yammer haps that's why I go to certain restaurants not because my friends go there but because people who I aspire to be like yeah there yeah and and the other way around you go there and you say well gosh these other people are like me because they go here too and I see that they're you know wearing different sort of clothes or they're by or the simplest thing you go to restaurants you see other people all buying the mushi yes maybe I should try the mushi I usually don't like it but seems to work well and this is I like this restaurant and everybody else who comes here likes it so I'll try it right it's that simple so it's important to point out we're talking about the predictive analytics Capas they're probably people watching might say this Sandi's crazy we mean we don't want it personalized we want to personalize the customer experience still I'm presuming sure but when we're talking about predictive analytics you're saying the the community the peer group is a much better predictor than the individual that's right yeah okay so I want to come back to the the org chart these are you saying that org charts shouldn't necessarily change but the incentives should or your previous thing to do is you have an org chart but the incentives that are across the entire organization is good communication within the box you're in and good communication outside of the box and to put those incentives in place you need to have data you need to be able to have some way of estimating does everybody talk to each other do they talk to the rest of the organization and there's a variety of ways you can do that we do it with little badges we do it by analyzing phone call data email is not so good because email is not really a social relationship it's just this this little formal thing you do often but by using things like the badges like the phone calls surveys for that matter right you can give people feedback about are they communicating in the right way are they communicating with other parts of the organization and by visualizing that to people they'll begin to do the right thing you had this notion of network tuning oh you don't want an insufficiently diverse network but you don't want a network that's too dense you might find the sweet spot in the middle desert how do you actually implement that that tuning well the first thing is is you have to measure okay you have to know how dense is the social interaction the communication pattern because if you don't know that there's nothing to - right and then what you want to ask is you want to ask the signal property of something being two dances the same ideas go around then around and around so you look at the graph that you get from this data and you ask you know this Joe talked to Bob talk to Mary talk to Joe talk to you know is it full of cycles like that and if it's too full of cycles then that's a problem right because it's the same people talking to each other same ideas going around and there's some nice mathematical formulas for major in it they're sort of hard to put into English but it has to do with if you look at the flow of ideas are you getting a sufficiently diverse set of ideas coming to you or is it just the same people all talking to each other so are you sort of cut off from the rest of the world in your book social physics you talk about rewards and incentives isms and one of the things that struck me as you say that that rewards that people are actually more motivated by rewards for others than for themselves correct me if I'm wrong if paraphrasing you wrong there but but there's but but rewarding the group or or doing something good for somebody else is actually a powerful incentive is it is that the true the case well you said it almost right so so if you want to change behavior these social incentives are more powerful than financial incentives so if you have everybody in a group let's say and people are rewarded by the behavior of the other people in the group what will they do well they'll talk to the other people about doing the right thing because their reward my reward depends on your behavior so I'm gonna talk to you about it okay and your reward depends on it you'll talk and I don't know so what we're doing is we're creating much more communication around this problem and social pressure because you know if you don't do it you're screwing me and and you know I may not be a big thing but you're gonna think twice about that whereas some small financial award usually it's not such a big thing for people so if you think people talk a lot about you know persona persona marketing when I first met John Fourier he had this idea of affinity rank which was his version of you know peer group PageRank hmm do you do you hear a lot about you know get a lot of questions about persona persona marketing and and what does your research show in terms of how we should be appealing to that persona so sorry good questions about that some time and I don't know what he really originally intended but the way people often imply it is very static you have a particular persona that's fixed for all parts of your life well that's not true I mean you could be a baseball coach for your kid and a banker during the day and a member of a church and those are three different personas and what defines those personas it's the group that you're interacting with it's it's the the people you learn with and try and fit in so your persona is a variable thing and the thing that's the key to it is what are the groups that you're you're interacting with so if I analyzed your groups of interactions I'd see three different clusters I'd see the baseball one I'd say the banking one I'd see the church group one and then I would know that you have three personas and I could tell which one you're in typically by seeing who you're spending time with right now is the risk of applying this idea of behaviors influenced by groups is there the risk of falling over into profiling and essentially treating people anticipating behaviors based upon characteristics that may not be indicative of how any individual might act back credit alcoholics as you example right I don't get a job because people like people who are similar to me tend to be alcoholics let's say this is different though so this is not people who are similar to you if you hang out with alcoholics all the time then they're really eyes are good on that you're an alcoholic it may not be yes and there is a risk of over identifying or or extrapolating but it's different than people like me I mean if you go to the you know the dingy bars were beers or a buck and everybody gets wasted and you do that repeatedly you're talking about behaviors rather than characteristics behaviors rather than characteristics right I mean you know if you drink a lot maybe you drink a lot so we have a question from the crowd so it says real time makes persona very difficult yeah so it was come back to furriers premise was I was Twitter data you know such is changing very rapidly so are there social platforms that you see that can inform in real time to help us sort of get a better understanding of persona and affinity group affinity well there are data sources that do that right so first as if I look at telephone data or credit card data even for that matter sure this geo-located I can ask but what sort of people buy here or what sort of people are in this bar or restaurant and I can look at their demographics and where they go to I showed an example of that in San Francisco using data from San Francisco so there is this data which means that any app that's interested in it that has sufficient breadth and although sufficient adoption can do these sorts of analyses can you give an example of how you're working with the many organizations now I'm sure you can't name them but can you give an example of how you're applying these principles practically now whether it's in law enforcement or in consumer marketing how are you putting these to work well there's a bunch of different things that that go together with this view of you know it's the flow of ideas that's the important thing not the demographics so talk about behavior change and we're working with a small country to change their traffic safety by enrolling people in small groups where you know the benefit I get for driving right depends on your safety and we're good buddies we know that that's how you sign up sign up with your buddies and what that means is I'm going to talk to you about your driving if you're driving in a dangerous way and that we've seen in small experiments is a lot more effective than giving you points on your driver's license or discount on your insurance the social relationships so so that's an example another example is we're beginning a project to look at unemployment and what we see is is that people have a hard time getting re-employed don't have diverse enough social networks and it sounds kind of common sense but they don't physically get out enough compared to the people that do get jobs so what's the obvious thing well you encouraged them to get out more you make it easier for them to get out more so those are some examples when you talk about health care what you can do is you can say well look you know I don't know particular things you're doing but based on the behavior that you show right and the behavior of the people you hang with you may be at much higher risk of diabetes and it's not any particular behavior this is the way medical stuff is always pitched is you know it's this behavior that beer every combination of things all right and so you're not really aware that you're doing anything bad but if all your buds are at risk of it then you probably are too because you're probably doing a lot of the same sort of behaviors and medicine is a place where people are willing to give up some of the privacy because the consequences are so important so we're looking at people who are interested in personalized medicine and are willing to you know share their data about where they go and what they spend time doing in order to get statistics back from the people they spend time with about what are the risk factors they pick up from the people around them and the behaviors they engage in um your message this to the cdos today was you know you were sort of joking you're measuring that right and a lot of times they weren't a lot of the non-intuitive things your research has found so I wanna talk about the data and access to the data and how the CBO can you know affect change in their organization a lot of the data lives in silos I mean if they certainly think of social data Facebook LinkedIn yeah Twitter you mentioned credit card data is that a problem or is data becoming more accessible through api's or is it still just sort of a battle to get that data architecture running well it's a it's a battle and in fact actually it's a political and very passionate battle and it revolves around who controls the data and privacy is a big part of that so one of the messages is that to be able to get really ditch data sources you have to engage with the customer a lot so people are more than willing our research we've set up you know entire cities where we've changed the rules and we've found that people are more than willing to volunteer very detailed personal data under two conditions one is they have to know that it's safe so you're not reselling it you're handling it in a secure way it's not going to get out in some way and the other is that they get value for it and they can see the value so it's not spreading out and they're part of the discussion so you know you want more personalized medicine people are willing to share right because it's important to them or for their family you know if you want to share we're willing to share very personal stuff about their kids they would never do that but if it results in the kid getting a better education more opportunity yeah they're absolutely willing so that leads to a great segue into enigma yeah you talked about enigma as a potential security layer for the internet but also potential privacy yeah solution so talk about enigma where it's at yeah what it is where it's at and how it potentially could permeate yeah so we've been building architectures and working with this sort of problem this conundrum basically datas and silos people feel paranoid and probably correctly about their data leaky now companies don't have access to data don't know what to do with it and a lot of it has to do with safe sharing another aspect of this problem is cybersecurity you're getting increasing the amount of attacks done stuff bad for companies bad for people it's just going to get worse and we actually know what the answers to these things are the answers our data is encrypted all the time everywhere you do the computation on encrypted data you never transmit it you never unencrypted it to be able to do things we also know that in terms of control of the data is possible to build fairly simple permission mechanisms so that you know the computer just won't share it in the wrong places and if it does you know skyrockets go up and the cop scum you can build systems like that today but the part that's never been able never allowed that to happen is you need to keep track of a lot of things in a way that's not hackable you need to know that somebody doesn't just short-circuit it or take it out the back and what's interesting is the mechanisms that are in Bitcoin give you exactly that power so you whatever you feel about Bitcoin you know it's speculative bubble or whatever the blockchain which is part of it is this open ledger that is unhackable and and has the following characteristics that's amazing it's called trustless what that means is you can work with a bunch of crooks and still know that the ledger that you're keeping is correct because it doesn't require trusting people to work with them it's something where everybody has to agree to be able to get things and it works it works in Bitcoin at scale over the whole world and so what we've done is adapted that technology to be able to build a system called enigma which takes data in an encrypted form computes on it in an encrypted form transmits it according to the person's permissions and only that way in an encrypted form and you know it provides this layer of security and privacy that we've never had before there have been some projects that come close to this but know we're pretty excited about this and and what I think you're going to see is you're going to see some of the big financial institutions trying to use it among themselves some of the big logistics some of the big medical things trying to use it in in hotspots where they have real problems but the hope is is that it gets spread among the general population so it becomes quite literally the privacy and security level that doesn't have Warren Buffett might be right that it might fail as a currency but the technology has really inspired some new innovations that's right so so it's essentially a distributed it's not a walled garden it's a distributed black box that's what you're describing you never exposed the data that's right you don't need a trusted third party that's getting attacked that's right nobody has to stamp that this is correct because the moment you do that first of all other people are controlling you and the second thing is is there a point of attack so it gets rid of that trusted third party centralization makes it distributed you can have again a bunch of bad actors in the system it doesn't hurt it's peer-to-peer where you have to have 51% of the people being bad before things really go bad how do you solve the problem of performing calculations on encrypted data because they're classic techniques actually it's been known for over 20 years how to do that but there are two pieces missing one piece is it wasn't efficient it scaled really poorly and what we did is came up with a way of solving that by making it essentially multi scale so it's it's a distributed solution for this that brings the cost down to something that's linear in the number of elements which is a real change and the second is keeping track of all of the stuff in a way that's secure it's fine to have an addition that's secure you know but if that isn't better than a whole system that secure it doesn't do you any good and so that's where the blockchain comes in it gives you this accounting mechanism for knowing which computations are being done who has access to them what the keys are things like that so Google glass was sort of incubated in MIT Media labs and well before yeah my group you go right in your group and yeah it didn't take off me because it's just not cool it looks kind of goofy but now enigma has a lot of potential solving a huge problem are you can open-source it what do you yeah it's an open-source system we hope to get more people involved in it and right now we're looking for some test beds to show how well it works and make sure that all the things are dotted and crossed and so forth and where can people learn more about it oh go to a nygma dot media dot mit.edu all right sandy we're way over our time so obviously you were interesting so thanks keep right there buddy Paul and I we right back with our next guest we're live from see this is the cube right back [Music]