from around the globe it's the cube with digital coverage of Red Hat summit 2020 brought to you by Red Hat welcome back to the cubes coverage of Red Hat summit 2020 of course this year it's rather than all coming to San Francisco we are talking to red hat executives their partners and their customers where they are around the globe happy to welcome back one of our cube alumni Lisa Spellman who's a corporate vice president and general manager of the Intel Xeon and memory group Lisa thanks so much for joining us and where are you joining us from well thank you for having me and I'm a little further north than where the conference was gonna be held so I'm in Portland Oregon right now excellent yeah we've had you know customers from around the globe as part of the cube coverage here and of course you're near the mothership of Intel so Lisa you know but let's start of course you know the Red Hat partnership you know I've been the Intel executives on the keynote stage for for many years so talk about to start us off the Intel Red Hat partnership as it stands today in 2020 yeah you know on the keynote stage for many years and then actually again this year so despite the virtual nature of the event that we're having we're trying to still show up together and demonstrate together to our customers and our developer community really give them a sense for all the work that we're doing across the important transformations that are happening in the industry so we view this partnership in this event as important ways for us to connect and make sure that we have a chance to really share where we're going next and gather feedback on where our customers and that developer community need us to go together because it is a you know rich long history of partnership of the combination of our Hardware work and the open-source software work that we do with Red Hat and we see that every year increasing in value as we expand to more workloads and more market segments that we can help with our technology yeah well Lisa you know we've seen on the cube for for many years Intel strong partnerships across the industry from the data centers from the cloud I think we're gonna talk a little bit about edge for this discussion too though edge and 5g III think about all the hard work that Intel does especially with its partnership you know you talked about and I think that the early days of Red Hat you know the operating system things that were done as virtualization rolled out there's accelerations that gone through so when it comes to edge in 5g obviously big mega waves that we spend a lot of talking about what's what's Intel's piece obviously we know Intel chips go everywhere but when it comes to kind of the engineering work that gets done what are some of the pieces that Intel spork yeah and that's a great example actually of what I what we are seeing is this expansion of areas of workloads and investment and opportunity that we face so as we move forward into 5g becoming not the theoretical next thing but actually the thing that is starting to be deployed and transformed you can see a bunch of underlying work that Intel and Red Hat have done together in order to make that a reality so you look at they move from a very proprietary ASIC based type of workload with a single function running on it and what we've done is drive to have the virtualization capabilities that took over and provided so much value in the cloud data center also apply to the 5g network so the move to network function virtualization and software-defined networking and a lot of value being derived from the opportunity to run that on open source standard and have that open source community really come together to make it easier and faster to deploy those technologies and also to get good SLA s and quality of service while you're driving down your overall total cost of ownership so we've spent years working on that together in the 5g space and network space in general and now it's really starting to take off then that is very well connected to the edge so if you think about the edge as this point of content creation of where the actions happening and you start to think through how much of the compute or the value can I get out at the edge without everything having to go all the way back to the data center you start to again see how those open standards in very complex environments and help people manage their total cost of ownership and the complexity all right Lisa so when you're talking about edge solutions when I've been talking to Red Hat where their first deployments have really been talking to the service providers really I've seen it as an extension of what you were talking about network functions virtualization you know everybody talks about edges there's a lot of different edges out there the service providers being the first place we see things but you know all the way out even to the consumer edge and the device edge where Intel may or may not have you know some some devices there so help us understand you know where where you're sitting and where should we be looking as these technologies work you know it's a it's a great point we see the edge being developed by multiple types of organizations so yes the service providers are obviously there in so much as they already even own the location points out there if you think of all the myriad of poles with the the base stations and everything that's out there that's a tremendous asset to capitalize on you also see our cloud service provider customers moving towards the edge as well as they think of new developer services and capabilities and of course you see the enterprise edge coming in if you think of factory type of utilization methodologies or in manufacturing all of those are very enterprise based and are really focused on not that consumer edge but on the b2b edge or the you know the infrastructure edge is what you might think of it as but they're working through how do they add efficiency capability automation all into their existing work but making it better so at Intel the way that we look at that is it's all opportunities to provide the right foundation for that so when we look at the silicon products that we develop we gather requirements from that entire landscape and then we work through our silicon portfolio you know we have our portfolio really focused on the movement the storage and the processing of data and we try to look at that in a very holistic way and decide where the capability will best serve that workload so you do have a choice at times whether some new feature or capability goes into the CPU or the Zeon engine or you could think about whether that would be better served by being added into a smart egg type of capability and so those are just small examples of how we look at the entirety of the data flow in the edge and at what the use case is and then we utilize that to inform how we improve the silicon and where we add feature well Lisa as you were going through this it makes me also think about one of the other big mega waves out there artificial intelligence so lots of discussion as you were saying what goes where how we think about it cloud edge devices so how does AI intersect with this whole discussion of edge that we were just having yeah and you're probably gonna have to cut me off because I could go on for a long time on on this one but AI is such an exciting at capability that is coming through everywhere literally from the edge through the core network into the cloud and you see it infiltrating every single workload across the enterprise across cloud service providers across the network service providers so it is truly on its way to being completely pervasive and so again that presents the same opportunity for us so if you look at your silicon portfolio you need to be able to address artificial intelligence all the way from the edge to the cloud and that can mean adding silicon capabilities that can handle milliwatts like ruggedized super low power super long life you don't literally out at the edge and then all the way back to the data center where you're going for a much higher power at a higher capability for training of the models so we have built out a portfolio that addresses all of that and one of the interesting things about the edges people always think of it as a low compute area so they think of it as data collection but more and more of that data collection is also having a great benefit from being able to do an amount of compute and inference out at the edge so we see a tremendous amount of actual Zeon product being deployed out at the edge because of the need to actually deliver quite high-powered compute right there and that's improving customer experiences and it's changing use cases through again healthcare manufacturing automotive you see it in all the major fast mover edge industries yeah now we're really good points they make their Lisa we all got used to you know limitless compute in the cloud and therefore you know let's put everything there but of course we understand there's this little thing called the speed of light that makes it that much of the information that is collected at the edge can't go beyond it you know I saw a great presentation actually last year talking about the geosynchronous satellites they collect so much information and you know you can't just beam it back and forth so I better have some compute there so you know we've known for a long time that the challenge of you know of our day has been distributed architectures and edge just you know changes that you know the landscape and the surface area that we need the touch so much more when I think about all those areas obviously security is an area that comes up so how does Intel and its partners make sure that no matter where my data is and you talk about the various memory that you know security is still considered at each aspect of the environment oh it's a huge focus because if you think of people and phrases they used to say like oh we got to have the fat pipe or the dumb pipe to get you know data back and or there is no such thing as a dumb pipe anymore everything is smart the entire way through the lifecycle and so with that smartness you need to have security embedded from the get-go into that work flow and what people need to understand is they undergo their edge deployments and start that work is that your obligation for the security of that data begins the you collect that data it doesn't start when it's back to the cloud or back in the data center so you own it and need to be on it from the beginning so we work across our Silicon portfolio and then our software ecosystem to think through it in terms of that entire pipeline of the data movement and making sure that there's not breakdowns in each of the handoff chain it's a really complex problem and it is not one that Intel is able to solve alone nor any individual silicon or software vendor along the way and I will say that some of the security work over the past couple years has led to a bringing together of the industry to address problems together whether they be on any other given day a friend or a foe when it comes to security I feel like I've seen just an amazing increase over the past two two and a half years on the collaboration to solve these problems together and ultimately I think that leads to a better experience for our users and for our customers so we are investing in it not just at the new features from the silicon perspective but in also understanding newer and more advanced threat or attack surfaces that can happen inside of the silicon or the software component all right so Lisa final question I have for you want to circle back to where we started it's Red Hat summit this week-long partnerships as I mentioned we see Intel it all the cloud shows you partner with all the hardware software providers and the like so big message from Red Hat is the open hybrid cloud to talk about how that fits in with everything that Intel is doing it's an area of really strong interconnection between us and Red Hat because we have a vision of that open hybrid cloud that is very well aligned and the part about it is that it is rooted not just in here's my feature here's my feature from either one of us it's rooted in what our customers need and what we see our enterprise customers driving towards that desire to utilize the cloud to in prove their capabilities and services but also maintain that capability inside their own house as well so that they have really viable work load transformation they have opportunities for their total cost of ownership and can fundamentally use technology to drive their business forward all right well Lisa Spellman thank you so much for all the update from Intel and definitely look forward to seeing the breakouts the keynotes and the like yes me too all right lots more coverage here from the cube redhead summit 2020 I'm Stu minimun and thanks as always for watching [Music]

(funky music) >> Live from Las Vegas, its theCUBE, covering Dell Technologies World 2019, brought to you by Dell Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome to theCUBE. Day three of our live coverage from Dell Technologies World 2019 continues. Lisa Martin with my co-host Stu Miniman and we're welcoming to theCUBE for the first time Michael St-Jean, Principal Marketing Manager for Red Hat Storage. Michael welcome. >> Thanks Lisa. Hi Stu. >> So day three this event is still pretty loud around us. This has about we're hearing upwards of fifteen thousand people. A lot of partners. Give us your perspective on Dell Technologies World 2019. >> I got to tell you this is an awesome show. I got to tell you the energy, and not just in the sessions but out on the show floor as well. It's amazing. And some of the conversations that we've been having out there around things like emerging technologies, emerging workflows around artificial intelligence, machine learning things like that. And the whole adoption around hybrid cloud, it really speaks to all of the things that we're doing, the initiatives that we're leading at Red Hat. So it's a great validation of all of the things that we've been working on for the past 10, 15, 20 years. >> And you had a long-standing relationship with Dell. >> Oh yeah, absolutely. >> 18 years or so? >> Yeah, yeah we've had not just a long relationship but very collaborative relationship with Dell over the past 18 years. It's something like If you take a look at some of the initiatives that we've been working on, we have ready architectures around open stack, around open shift. We have just, we have highlighting a few things here around Microsoft sequel server, around SAP HANA. And actually, we're really talking a lot around open shift and a ready architecture that we've developed, that we have architecture guides, deployment guides all around open shift and open shift container storage for Dell hardware. And actually, next week at our Red Hat Summit event, you should really take a look on Wednesday morning our keynote, our EVP Paul Cormier will be talking about some great, new, very interesting initiatives that we've been working with Dell on. >> Alright well Michael I'm excited we're going to have theCUBE at Red Hat Summit in Boston. It's our sixth year there. I'll be one of the hosts there. John Walls will be there with me. We're going to have Paul Cormier on the program. (laughs) Jim Whitehurst hacking the keynote. It's actually not a secret Satya Nadella and Ginni Rometty will both be up on the main stage there. And just my perspective you were talking about hybrid cloud. As you said, Red Hat Summit, I've been for many years. That hybrid cloud, that adoption. They're both open stack at the infrastructure layer and up to the application with open chip. Something we've been hearing for years and you're right. The general themes seem to echo and resonate here as to what I've been hearing at Red Hat. Can you help expand a little bit those conversations you're having here? I love you talking about some of that app modernization analytics that are going on there. How does that fit into the ready architectures that Dell's offering? >> Sure. Well I represent our storage business unit. So a lot of times, the conversations I'm having over there at the booth are kind of revolving around storage and storage growth. How data is expanding, how do we deal with the scalability of that? How do we deal with persistence of storage and containers for staple applications, things of that nature. But really, at the end of the day as I'm listening to some of the other conversations that my colleagues are having over there, it's really about how do we get work done? How do we now move into these areas where we need that cloud like experience not just in a public cloud or even in a private cloud but everywhere that we touch infrastructure. We need to have that simplified cloud-like experience. >> So just point on your subject area. Talk about the containerization and what's happening with storage pieces. Give us that layer between the infrastructure layer because let me say I believe the t shirt I saw was Linux is container, containers are Linux. So Linux has lived on Dell hardware for a long time. But anything that users should understand about the differentiation between whether they were bare metal or virtualized in the past and containerized environments today? >> Yeah well I like to say that you can't spell Red Hat without storage. (laughs) I don't know that that's particularly true but (laughing) >> It sells good. >> It sells good. Yeah so storage is near and dear to my heart but really at the end of the day, you can't have storage sitting in an island, it has to integrate and be collaborative with the rest of the portfolio that we're expanding out for our customers solving real issues, real problems. And so we've been watching industry trends and certainly these are things like that from an industry we've been looking at over the past five, 10 years so nothing new but we see the evolution of certain things like for example developers and data analysts, data scientists, these people are really charged with going out there and making dramatic differences, transforming their companies, their organizations. And as that transformational application, service development or bringing back insights on data is really integral to a company's ability to transform or differentiate in the industry. They have to be much, much more agile. And it seems that they are more and more taking over a lot of the role that we would normally see traditional I.T. managers making a lot of the purchasing decisions. A lot of the industry trends show that these folks, developers, data analysts are actually making some of those I.T. decisions now. And of course, everything is really being developed as cloud native. So we see cloud native as being more of the new norm. And if you kind of look at the expansion of data, Lisa Spellman a couple of days ago said "Hey look. "We've seen data double in the past two years "but we're only using two percent of that data." >> Two percent? >> Two percent. >> Wow, it's not very much. >> Yeah. And if you look at IDC mentioned that the data sphere has now grown to over 33 Zettabytes. A zettabyte is a billion gigabytes. So put that into perspective. Alright. 33 Zettabytes. By 2025, they project that we're going to grow to 175 Zetabytes. How can we make better use of that data? A lot of that data is coming from IOT type applications. You look at trends, traffic trends and how that might be correlated to weather activities or other events that are going on or archeological digs or all sorts of just information that is brought back. How do we make best use of that information? And so the need for scalability in a hybrid cloud environment, has become more and more of a key industry trend as the data sphere continues to grow. And I think across all three of those, that's really driving this need for hyper convergence and not just hyper convergence in the traditional sense. we've seen hyper convergence in the field for probably about five, 10 years now. But initially it was kind of a niche play and it was based on appliances. Well the past two years, you've seen the Gardner reports on hyper convergence really talking about how it is moving and evolving to more of a software defined nature. And in fact, in the past Magic Quadrant around hyper convergence, you see Red Hat show up. Something that is probably not known that Red Hat has hyper converged offerings. It's something that actually we didn't get into it just because the analysts were suggesting it. We had customers come to us and they were trying to put together Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Red Hat virtualization, storage, et cetera et cetera with varying degrees of success with that because they were doing it more or less as a project. And so we took upon ourselves to develop that, put it into a product and start to develop it with things like Ansible for deployment management. We have dedupe and compression with our virtual data optimization products, virtual GPUs, et cetera. So we're really in that space now too. >> Yeah Michael I mean it really from our standpoint it was a natural extension of what happens if you look at what hyper converged was, it was simplification and it had to be tight integration down at the OS level or the virtualization level. As a matter of fact, when we first wrote our research on it, we called it server SAN because it was the benefits of storage area network but built at the server level. So we said those OS manufacturers. Now I have to admit, I called out VMware and Microsoft are the ones that I considered the biggest ones. But as a natural fit that Red Hat would look out of that environment and if you look at the leaders in the marketplace today, we're here, VMware is here, their softwares piece. Techtonic has transitioned to be a software company. So yeah, welcome to the party. It's been a fun ride to watch that over the last five years. >> Yeah absolutely. >> So let's talk about customers and this spirit of collaboration. You just mentioned sort of the entrance into HCIs being really driven by the voice and the actions and the needs of Red Hat customers. You guys have three major pillars, themes that you have been delivering at Dell Technologies World. Talk to us a little bit about this and how your customers are helping to drive what you're delivering here and what you'll be delivering in the future. >> Yes certainly. I mean that's the whole open source model. And we don't we don't just contribute to the open source community but we develop enterprise grade infrastructure solutions for customers based on the open source way. And so essentially, as I think of it these market trends that I was talking about. It's not that we're leading them or that we're following them. It's we're tightly integrated with them because all of these industry trends are being formulated as we're in progress. It's a great opportunity for Red Hat to really express what we can do with our customers, with our partners, our developers, the folks that we have on our staff that are working directly in the community. Most products that we work on, we're the number one contributor for. So it's all very special opportunity for us. I would say from a storage perspective, what we've really focused on this year is around three main pillars. One is around data portability for those application portability projects that we see in open shift. So being able to offer an enterprise grade persistent storage for stateful applications that are running in these containerized environments. Another area is around that hybrid cloud scalable storage. And this is something that being able to scale that storage to hundreds of petabytes is kind of a big deal (laughs) and especially as we see a lot of the workloads that we've been working with customers on around data analytics and now artificial intelligence, machine learning. Those types of data lakes type projects where we're able to, by using open stack or open shift, we're able to do multi-tenant workforce workload isolation of the work that all of these people are doing while having a shared data context underneath with Red Hat storage. And then the third is around hyper convergence. I think we've touched on that already. >> Yeah so Michael before letting you go I have to touch on the hot thing that everybody needs to understand what's going. The ripple that will be felt throughout the industry. And I'm not talking about a certain 34 billion dollar pending acquisition. (laughs) Constant in the last, most of my career there has been a certain logo that I would see at every conference and that Red Hat that I got my first one, I don't know, 15, 16 years ago. So the shadow man has been deprecated. There's a new Red Hat logo. >> Oh yeah yeah. And we just brought out the new logo today. So a great segue into actually, it was last night, they pulled down the old logos, they put the new logos on the buildings, pretty much around the world. I think it's May Day in Europe. So maybe some of that will happen tomorrow or. Trying to think of what time it is, probably tonight. So yeah it's a great new logo and it's, our old logo has been over, it was around for 19 years since 2000. And it came back from a lot of feedback from customers but also from people who didn't know Red Hat, didn't know what we did. And quite honestly, some of them said that shadow man looked a little sneaky. (laughing) >> I guess on the rise of all those cyber challenges, maybe they're right. >> (laughs) so we have a new logo just launched today. Very proud of it, we're looking forward to working with everybody in the industry and go forward with all these new, wonderful opportunities that we have. >> I look forward to pointing out to all the vendors that they're now using the old Red Hat logo just like they do for every other vendor in this space when it changes. >> As of how many hours ago. (laughing) >> Well it'll be interesting to see and hear what Stu and team uncover at the summit next week in terms of the impact of this brand. We thank you so much for your time Michael, >> Absolutely. >> joining Stu and me on theCUBE. I guess it is just after day of day three. It's hard to tell right it's all blending in together. (laughs) Well we thank you for your time and your insight. >> Thank you very much and see you next week Stu. >> Exactly. For Stu Miniman, I am Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE live from day three of our coverage of Dell technologies world 2019. Thanks for watching. (light music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering ServiceNow Knowledge 2018. Brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back to Las Vegas, everybody. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, and we extract the signal from the noise. We're here at Knowledge18, ServiceNow's big customer event. 18,000 ServiceNow practitioners and partners and constituents here. As I say, this is day three. This is our sixth year at Knowledge. Jeff Frick and I are co-hosting. When we started in 2013 early on, we saw this ecosystem grow, and one of the first CIOs we had on from the ServiceNow customer base was Link Alander, who is here. He's the Vice Chancellor of College Services at Lone Star College. Link, always a pleasure. Great to see you again. Thanks for coming back on. >> It's always great to get back and talk with you, see what's happening in the industry, and follow you. But, once again, great conference. >> It really is, I mean, wow. Last year was huge. The growth keeps coming. We said that Dan Rogers, the CMO, K18, 18,000. How ironic. >> Yeah, wow, let's see, your first was six years ago, right? >> Dave: Yep, it was 2013. So my first would have been New Orleans, which had been I think 2012, 2011. >> Right, right, the year before we met 'em. >> Three to four thousand in this conference. Actually, that might be the high count. >> Yeah, I mean, it's quite amazing. And the ecosystem has exploded. What's your take on how, not only ServiceNow and the ecosystem have grown, but how it's affected your business? >> Let's start with the, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's start with the ecosystem part because, really, you've got so many more partners out there now. You've got so many more integration points. What was really exciting as we saw this morning with Pat, and some of the enhancements they're doing on the DevOps side, but also what we're going to see with the ability to integrate our cloud linkage, which is really the challenge for everybody as a practitioner today. How do you bring all these cloud services? I've got quite a few of them in my environment. How do I actually integrate those in with my ServiceNow, with my ERP, with all of the other instances? So, seeing what they're doing in that space is great. From the business standpoint, when we came onto ServiceNow, we came on like everybody else, a journey for IT service management. Can we improve our services? Can we help our customers out? In our case, that'd be our faculty and staff. What we didn't realize was the opportunity that came to us with the platform. And one of the first things we did when we brought the platform back to us was we built an app for students. We built a way to help students out with their student financial aid. Now I've got, I think we're roughly at about nine of our areas that are using Enterprise Service Management. I just came back from giving a presentation about legal, and what we've done in the legal space to where that's helped the organization to move forward faster. So that's really cool in what it does, but it also elevates the position of IT in the organization. It really does bring us forward. >> Yeah so, let's talk a little about Lone Star College, 'cause I love your model, you know, and we can both relate. Kids in college, and, you know, the cost of education, the ROI, which I think is a big focus of what you guys provide for your students, so how's that going? How's the model working? >> Well the model's working great. And you know, you hear the pressures out there, 'cause one of the first thing is, how do you help a student complete. So, we're really very focused on student completion, but then now, you've got another focus that, well, it's been there, but it's really getting stronger, on gainful employment. So not only that, how do you get a student in college, how do they complete on time, but then how do they come out and have a livable wage, an earnable wage? And so I'll give a plug on that always because that's what we're focused on. Whether you're just coming to us to transfer to another institution or whether you're coming in the workforce. And we have a very strong workforce development, and one of the things I got out of this conference that I've been working on for quite awhile was for us to become a ServiceNow train, to get that integrated into our curriculum. And I was really excited. We've talked to them before about this, and it's been a discussion, but now what we're looking at is a program that they put in France where they have a six week program that if people are going out of there, coming in, six weeks later, job retrained, 100% placement. A year later, they have 98% retention, and those 2% just went to another company. So I can't think of a better opportunity for us from our standpoints in our workforce development. And I'm really excited we're going to be starting to move that forward now. >> It's interesting to hear John Donahoe on Tuesday talk about their measurement of customer success. And we were asking him on theCUBE, well, your customers measure success in a lot of different ways, so how do you take that input? Your measurement of success is student success, as you just have indicated. >> Absolutely, absolutely. You know, my focus has always been is IT is just a support operation. We're not the mission of the college. And that's important. Because as long as we have that mindset, we realize that it's us helping the faculty to less stress on their life, or the staff, then we've improved their experience, which will improve the student experience. The same goes for the administrative systems. We want administrative systems to have a user interface that's intuitive to today's student. It wasn't designed by a person that was intuitive to today's student. So we have that challenge, and that's what I liked about the change this year and the user interface in ServiceNow and where they're going with UI and UX, and how much of an enhancement that makes for our customers. But it's also, that's the changes that are happening in industry right now. Coach K was at the CIO Decisions, and he was talking about he's headed to go through all this process, and 50 forward years of difference, and he's recruiting 18-year-olds, and he's sending emojis to them, his recruits. But like, yeah, because you have to relate to it. So, we started a process, and this is where coming to a conference like this helps me a lot, because it's like, yeah, I went down the right path. But my team came to me, and I've got a phenomenal team. They came to me and said, you know what, we really need to look at UI, UX, and design thinking. And I'm like, okay. Now let's discuss what we really want to do with this. One group was wanting design thinking to think about analytics. What does the customer need? How do they want to see this data come to them? And how can they make data-informed decisions? Well, we have then rolled that same design thinking into, how do we roll out the fluid technologies in our ERP? How do we become more of a user interface that today's student wants, to what we're trying to do next in mobile? >> That's a really interesting take, because we talk often about millennials entering the workforce, right? And consumerization of IT and expectations. But they're usually a pretty small and growing percentage of the workforce at a particular company. For you, it's like 90% of your customer base, right? And they're on the bleeding edge. They're coming in there 18, 17 years old. So you got to be way out front on this customer experience. So have you really taken that opportunity to redesign that UI, UX, and interface to the applications? That must be a giant priority. >> We've done a lot of incremental items, but really it's been a huge priority for us for the last, we have two really cool items coming down the path. One is the UI UX experience. How do we transform the student experience? The next is a process that our academic success side, the student services side have gone down, with guided pathways. Okay, you and I went to college. What did we do? We saw an advisor every single time we registered. Then we up to the thing, and we filled in a bubble sheet, right? >> Right, right. >> Well right now, the students are registering on a mobile phone while they're sitting down at a Starbucks. They're not seeing an advisor. We want them to see an advisor. So we push them those directions, but this guided pathway says, you know what, I want to do this degree. Then we just line out, here's the classes you're going to take, and whether we use program enrollment, whatever methodology, we can help guide them in their pathway to success and completion, which is a big difference. And that's what needs to happen today. >> Right, well it's interesting, I always like to talk about banking, right? 'Cause banking, you used to go see the banker, go into the teller, and, you know, deposit your check and get your cash. And now most people's experience with their bank is via electronic, whether it's online, on their phone, or their app. You have kind of the dichotomy, 'cause they still have their interaction with the teachers. So there's still a very people element, but I would imagine more and more and more of that administrative execution, as you just described, is now moving to the mobile platform. That's the way they interact with the administration of the school. >> Well, that's their expectation. So, that's what we have to deliver, and it's a challenge because we have resources, we have limitations in resources or capabilities, but it's really keeping that focus going to where you look at it. So as we're doing this UI UX right now, one of our major goals is going to be to bring students in the engagement as we go through the design process, and get their feedback. Not computer science people, not IT people. We want the normal student that's going to go register for a class. And since what you have is such a large transient population, you know, two years, they're in, they're done. 100,000 per semester. 160,000 unique each year. You've got to create that rich experience, but the engagement, the bonding to the institution. And I like the bank for an example because not too long ago I switched banks because I didn't like their app. >> Dave: Absolutely. >> And it's easy to do, it's real easy to do. >> Airlines, you appreciate the good apps. >> Link: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. >> How does ServiceNow contribute to that user experience, that, your customer experience? >> Well right now from the student side, they don't see much of ServiceNow. They can submit requests, and we can handle their incidents, and those types of items. They have certain things. We have the student financial aid. But it really is about the Enterprise Service Management philosophy. I think if you go back to one of theCUBEs, maybe two or three years ago, I said, "Who would have ever thought they would come to IT to talk about service delivery?" Okay? Now, everybody at Enterprise is like, okay, how do you do this? How do you not let things fall through the crack? So that the legal app was a great one, because that was a challenge that our general council or our COO had when he came in. Everything was falling through the crack. So they worked through their workflows. They built a process. And then they built, we built an app for them in ServiceNow that handles everything. Now when I'm in a cabinet meeting, I get to hear about how legal's doing so great. I'm like, what about me? I think we're still doing a good job. (laughing) >> Well, Link, I'm curious too on, kind of the big theme has always been at this show kind of low code, no code developing, right? Enable people that aren't native coders to build apps, to build workflows. How has that evolved over time within your organization? >> Well, we still want to make sure when we're putting out code. What it's enabled for us is, of course, our developers, it makes it easier to get to time to completion of a project. But we still want to make sure that whatever's built is production ready. You know, so we're not opening up the tool case to everybody. (laughing) But, sad to say, I actually still go in, and I'll build my dashboards, and I'll build my interaction, and I use my performance analytics, which does enable people. And we're seeing that in some of our heavier Enterprise Service Management side, but as far as letting them dive into the no code environment, I still have to put some protection on us. And like any organization, we always have to think of IT security. That's the other piece of it. What are they putting out there? What could be a violation of privacy? How do we handle that? >> Jeff: Right. >> So, we stay completely engaged, but the speed to deliver is what the change is. Our legal app was a three month development project. Three months to go from a, they had a separate system. And to go through the process, redesign it, build it, and put it in production. Three months. >> Three months? >> How many people, roughly? How many people did it take to get there? >> Well, we use a development partner that used three, and then I had two at the time on my own. I still have only three individuals that actually handle our, that are primary to ServiceNow in my organization, as large as our installation base is. >> Really? And that includes the permeation of ServiceNow into the rest of the organization, or? >> Link: Yes. >> Dave: Really? >> 'Cause I added, and before that, if it has been last year, it was one and a half. >> Dave: Wow. >> That's what I had then. And technically, I probably have only two and a half because one person has another job, which is running our call center. >> So what are you using now? You got obviously ITSM, what else is in there? >> ITSM, ITBM, we got a great presentation we gave earlier on project portfolio management, and what we've done with that. And where we're going next. Business operations. We're actually launching this summer, if everything goes right. This is more of an internal, us doing it, but what I've been doing is I've been taking our contract management piece, utilization, incidents request change, and project. Now I'm going to roll it in and then do analytics against it to come back with what is the total cost per service per month per individual. On every license contract I hold. >> It's funny, the contract management software licensing management piece is a huge untapped area that we hear over and over and over again. >> So, two years ago we talked a lot about security. I think ServiceNow just at that point had announced its intentions to get into that business. What do you make of their whole SecOps modules, and is it something you've looked at? State of security, any comments? >> Well this is one of those situations I think we're just a little bit too far ahead of them again. 'Cause we actually had built a modular ourself that handled what we needed. In my environment, I've got an ISO, but I also have the partners that support us. My SOC is operated by a third party. So they feed in the alerts. We ingest the alerts into the security module, and then we take action from there. So basically, they were about, a little bit behind us. And we had just looked at the model saying we need a better way to manage that event. >> So you got that covered. Yeah, I want to ask you, you know, a couple years ago we, when the big data meme was hitting, we were, of course, asking you all these data questions. Now the big theme is AI, and in some regards it's like, same wine, new bottle. But it's different. What's your thoughts on machine intelligence? Obviously ServiceNow talking about it a lot. How applicable is it to you? >> Okay, so. (laughing) >> You know why, that's good. I had to ask. >> Augmented intelligence. Let's just not make it artificial, okay? 'Cause I, when Fred had that conversation during the fireside and he said, you know, a computer takes 10,000 images to know what a cat is. And of course, the computer's a mundane object that can look at 10,000 images to determine that's a cat. You showed me the other ones earlier today, I about rolled over laughing. >> It's allowed on the blueberry, check it out. >> You know, augmented intelligence is going to be a driver. There's no question about it. What we saw on the interface about it abled to, as the machine learning goes through the process, it's picking up the information, and it's helping the agent to get to the resolution faster, that's great. Knowledge bases that are integrated in with that. Can you think about how much quicker it would be for somebody like myself who's going to go to a chatbot, and I'm going to run through a chatbot in automated intelligence and do that type of work. So that's going to make a significant difference. One of the areas we think they will be dramatic, for especially this generation, the millennials coming into the school, will be to put that augmented intelligence in, in that process. Because, trying to explain to a student, you know, yeah, you go to the registrar's office to take care of this, and you go to the bursar's office to take, they have no clue what those mean. Well, if we can take it to their language, but then also add in augmented intelligence to guide them through those navigation points. So augmented intelligence over the next years, it's taking that big data now, it's actually put into use, all that machine learning, and making something happen out of it. >> You know, digital is one of those things where I actually think the customers led the vendor community. So often in the IT business, and the technology business in general, a lot of vendor hype, whether it's hyper converged or software to fund, they kind of jam it down our throats, and then sort of get it adopted. I almost feel like, you've been doing digital for awhile now because your student force has sent you in that direction. And I feel like the vendor community is now catching up, but is that a right perception? I mean that, the digital is certainly real, and then you guys are leaning in in a big way. >> I think between the three of us we could probably come up with all the different hype words that have been used, and probably fill this room with every one of those words, right? But the reality is, as practitioners, you're looking at what is your customer base, what do you need to be able to deal with. So, we've been into digital transformation, absolutely. Is it a good definition? Was cloud a good definition? I mean, what am I really? It's either I'm going to use software as a surface, a platform as a sur, I have a gigantic private cloud. Okay, that's great. We're talking about high availability and scalability. But when you put all those in, we've been in a digital transformation everywhere. Your banks did it, that's why you have a bank app. Airplanes did it because, you know, what was that ticketing system they used to use? >> Dave: Yeah, Sabre. >> Sabre, that's what it was, oh yeah. It's probably still out there somewhere. But the reality is, is that, if you're not transforming digitally, you're going to get left behind. And even some big IT companies, and I'm sure we got a list of those bit IT companies also, that have fallen off the face of the earth, or are struggling to stay on because they didn't go through that digital transformation. They tried to do the same thing the same way and move forward. You can't do that. >> You know, you just reminded me. I just got a, hey, it's been awhile since I goofed on Nick Carr, but you remember, as a CIO, Does IT Matter? Right, in the early 2000s, that book. I mean, IT matters more than ever, right? I mean, Nick Carr obviously very accomplished, but missed it by a mile. >> Well, it's funny 'cause then IT was a support organization. Now that IT is an integrated piece in the way that everything just happens, right? It's not keeping the lights on and support so much anymore. >> I can't remember who brought that up in the keynote. Talking about the fact that, basically, we permeate the organization, okay? 'Cause there's not a function that they're doing that doesn't have some type of IT. And the question is are you sewing it together correctly. Because in the end, what are they going to want? Well, you want a seamless student experience. You want a seamless employee experience. Nobody's perfect, everything needs improvement. I'll always say that. But then at the same time is, you want that data to be all tied together so you can take advantage of big data. You can take advantage of machine learning. And then you can come back and report on it. You know, what we've done, so I guess three years ago is when I took over. I was put in charge of our analytics team. And our focus was unlocking the data so that people could have access and make decisions that are informed. You know, it's not data driven. We need to see the data, look at it, and come forward from there. So things like what ServiceNow did in performance analytics. Our general council highlighted the performance analytics as soon as we, we missed it, as he said. We put it in the first app, we didn't do it. We needed to add it. So we added it in. And he's like, wow, what I always thought was one thing. But now that I'm seeing the data, and I'm seeing the patterns, it's totally different. Because we have assumptions just 'cause we think we're busy. Performance analytics is letting him see exactly what's happening in his organization. >> Let me ask you a question. If somebody on your staff, let's say somebody that you mentored, came up to you and said, "Listen, Link, I really want to be a CIO. I mean, it's my aspiration. What advice would you give me?" >> Well, it's kind of hard when you ask this one, because I've mentored and then partnered, I wouldn't even call it mentored anymore, a great friend of mine, and he's now a CIO at Spellman in Georgia, yeah. In fact I was just chatting with him earlier because I saw something, I was like, hey, you need to check this out. It'll solve your problem. You know, it's a simple key fact. If you want to be in IT, you've got to be agile. You really have to be agile. You can't be rigid. You can't close those doors and keep your focus, and you have to constantly learn. If you don't just constantly learn, then you fall off. And that's something, when we talk about digital transformation and these companies that haven't made the transformation, that aren't here anymore, they stopped learning. They thought they had it. It's the companies that have actually continued to learn, or the CIOs or people coming up the ranks that look at it. And they look at things differently. It really is. The digital transformation is about keeping the CIO transformed, and every one of the staff. Had a discussion not too long ago with one CIO about how does he energize his staff. He's trying to do a transformation, but his staff is entrenched in the old way we did things. And, you know, sometimes you just have to shake things and get 'em excited about this piece of it. And a lot of times, if you're especially in a college, I have the luck of bringing a student in. What was your experience with that application? What did you think about it? They think it's the greatest thing they've ever created. But when you get it in front of a student, it can be something totally different. So, the biggest one right there, you got to have agility, you got to constantly learn, and you really, you know I might have a laser focus about things, I have a very agile planning model I use, but at the same time is I try to keep the door open to any possibilities. >> Well, Link, you're a great leader, and a friend of theCUBE. Can't thank you enough for making some time out of your busy schedule to come back on. Great to see you again. >> Jeff: Good seeing ya. >> It was great seeing you again, as always. As always. >> Alright, keep it right here, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest. We're live from Las Vegas, ServiceNow Knowledge18. You're watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

[Music] live from cambridge massachusetts extracting the signal from the noise it's the cube covering the MIT chief data officer and information quality symposium now your host dave Volante and paul Gillett hi buddy welcome back to Cambridge Massachusetts we're at MIT Paul Gillan and myself are here for two days and we're really pleased to have sandy Pentland on he's the director of MIT Media labs entrepreneurship program just coming off a keynote mr. Alex sandy Pentland Spellman thanks for coming with you how'd you get that name sandy was that the color you know my dad was named Alex too so I had to get the diminutive so Alexander turns into Zander or Sasha or sandy ah excellent so man it's stuck so we learned from your keynote today that like your mom said hey if every other kid jumps off the bridge do you and the answer should be yes why is that well if your other friends or presumably as rational as you and have same sort of values as you and if they're doing something that looks crazy they must have a piece of information you don't like maybe Godzilla is coming bridges come and it really is time to get off but and so so while it's used as a metaphor for doing the irrational things it's actually shows that using your social context can be most rational because it's a way of getting information that you don't otherwise have so you broke down your talk to chief data officers and new types of analysis smarter organizations smarter networks and then really interesting new new architecture if we could sort of break those down sure you talked about sort of networks not individual nodes as really should be the focus to understand behavior can you unpack that a little well it's a little bit like the bridge or metaphor you know a lot of what we learn a lot of our behavior comes from watching other people we're not even conscious of it but you know if everybody else starts you know wearing a certain sort of shoe or or you know acting in a certain or using a phrase in business like all these new sort of buzz phrases like oh you have to - because it's to fit in it means something it's it's part of being hyper formants and being part of your group but that's not in data analytics today today what they look at is just your personal properties not what you're exposed to and the group that you're part of so they would look at the guy on the bridge and they say he's not going to jump because he doesn't have that information but on the other hand if all of other people who like him are making a different decision he probably is going to jump and your research has been you dig into organizations and you've found the relationship between productivity and this type of analysis has been pretty substantial very substantive offenses a ssin and outside of the organization dealing with customers so people focus on things like personality history various sort of training things like that what we find is compared to the pattern of interaction with other people so who do you talk to when and what situations those other factors are tiny they're often a whole order of magnitude less important than just do you talk to all the people in your group do you talk outside of your group do if you violate the org chart and talk to other people if you do you're almost certainly one of the high productivity high innovation people so what what impact does this have or were the implications of this on organizations which historically have been have been highly Madonn hierarchies reporting structures all of these institutions that we evolved in the post-world War two ERA is this working against their productivity well what they did is is they set some simple rules in that they could deal with and wrap their head around but what we find is that those simple rules are exactly the opposite of what you need for innovation and because really what they're doing is they're enforcing silos they're enforcing atomization of the work and everybody talks about we need to be more fluid we need to be more innovative we need to be able to move faster and what that requires is better communication habits and so what we find when we measure the communication habits is that that's exactly right better communication habits lead to more innovative organizations what's really amazing is almost no organization does it so people don't know does everybody talk to everybody in this group do they talk outside of the group there's no graphic there's no visualization and when you give a group a visualization of their pattern of organization of communication they change it and they become more innovative they become more productive I'm sure you're familiar with holacracy this idea that of doing away with with organizational boundaries and sort of do titles and sure everybody talks to everyone is that in your view a better way to structure an organization think that's too extreme but it's headed in the right direction I mean so what we're talking first of all people try to do this without any data so you know everybody's the same well everybody really isn't the same and how would you know if you're behaving as well as the same as other people or I mean there's no data so so what I'm suggesting is something that's sort of halfway between the two yeah you can have leaders you can have organization in there but you also have to have good flow of ideas and what that means is you have to make talking outside your org chart a value it's something you're rewarded for it means that including everybody in the loop in your organization is something you ought to be rewarded for and of course that requires data so the sorts of things we do with peoples we make displays could just be piece of paper that shows the patterns of communication and we give it to everybody and you know what people actually know what to do with it when you give it to them they say well gee you know this group of people is all talking to each other but they're not talking to that group maybe they ought to talk to each other it's that simple but in the lack of data you can't feel so you instrumented people essentially with let's badges and you could measure conversations at the watercooler yeah they're their frequency their duration not the content not the content just that's the activity just is it happening right and is it happening between groups just just people from this group go to that other groups water cooler stuff like that and that actually is enough to really make a substantial difference in the corporation and you gave an example of you were able to predict trending stories on Twitter better than the internal mechanism and Twitter did I understand that Kerina so what we've done by studying organizations like this and coming up with these sort of rules of how people behave so the notion that people learn from each other and that it's the patterns of communication that matter you can encode that along with machine learning and suddenly you get something that looks like machine learning but in many ways it's more powerful and more reliable and so we have a spin-out called Endor and what that does is it lets your average guy who can use a spreadsheet do something that's really competitive with the best machine learning groups in the world and that's pretty exciting because everybody has these reams of data but what they don't have is a whole bunch of PhDs who can study it for six months and and come up with a machine learning algorithm to do it they have a bunch of guys that are smart know the business but they don't know the machine learning so it endured doesn't supply something like a spreadsheet to be able to allow the normal guy to do as good as the machine learning guys there's a lot of focus right now on anticipating predicting customer behavior better a lot of us been focused on on individuals understanding individuals better is that wrongheaded I mean should marketers be looking more at this group theory and treating customers more as buckets of similar behaviors it's not it's not buckets but treating people as individuals is is a mistake because while people do have individual preferences most of those preferences are learned from other people it's keeping up with the Jones it's fitting in its it's learning what the best practice is so you can predict people better from the company they keep than you can from their demographics always virtually every single time you can do better from the company they keep than from the standard sort of data so what that means is when you do analysis you need to look at the relationships between people and at one level it's sort of obvious you analyze somebody personally without knowing something about their relationships right about you know the type of things they do the places they go those are important but they're usually not in the data and what I find is I do this with a lot of big organizations and what I find is you look at their data analytics it's all based on individuals and it's not based on the context to those individuals absolutely I want to ask you further about that because when I think of the surveys that I fill out they're always about my personal preference Yahoo I want to do I can't remember ever filling out a survey that asked me about what my peer group does are you saying that those are the questions we should be asking yeah exactly right and of course you want to get data about that you want to know if if you go to these locations all the time to go to that restaurant you go to this sort of entertainment who else goes there what are they by what's trending in your group because it's not the general population and these not necessary people I know but they're people I identify with Yammer haps that's why I go to certain restaurants not because my friends go there but because people who I aspire to be like yeah there yeah and and the other way around you go there and you say well gosh these other people are like me because they go here too and I see that they're you know wearing different sort of clothes or they're by or the simplest thing you go to restaurants you see other people all buying the mushi yes maybe I should try the mushi I usually don't like it but seems to work well and this is I like this restaurant and everybody else who comes here likes it so I'll try it right it's that simple so it's important to point out we're talking about the predictive analytics Capas they're probably people watching might say this Sandi's crazy we mean we don't want it personalized we want to personalize the customer experience still I'm presuming sure but when we're talking about predictive analytics you're saying the the community the peer group is a much better predictor than the individual that's right yeah okay so I want to come back to the the org chart these are you saying that org charts shouldn't necessarily change but the incentives should or your previous thing to do is you have an org chart but the incentives that are across the entire organization is good communication within the box you're in and good communication outside of the box and to put those incentives in place you need to have data you need to be able to have some way of estimating does everybody talk to each other do they talk to the rest of the organization and there's a variety of ways you can do that we do it with little badges we do it by analyzing phone call data email is not so good because email is not really a social relationship it's just this this little formal thing you do often but by using things like the badges like the phone calls surveys for that matter right you can give people feedback about are they communicating in the right way are they communicating with other parts of the organization and by visualizing that to people they'll begin to do the right thing you had this notion of network tuning oh you don't want an insufficiently diverse network but you don't want a network that's too dense you might find the sweet spot in the middle desert how do you actually implement that that tuning well the first thing is is you have to measure okay you have to know how dense is the social interaction the communication pattern because if you don't know that there's nothing to - right and then what you want to ask is you want to ask the signal property of something being two dances the same ideas go around then around and around so you look at the graph that you get from this data and you ask you know this Joe talked to Bob talk to Mary talk to Joe talk to you know is it full of cycles like that and if it's too full of cycles then that's a problem right because it's the same people talking to each other same ideas going around and there's some nice mathematical formulas for major in it they're sort of hard to put into English but it has to do with if you look at the flow of ideas are you getting a sufficiently diverse set of ideas coming to you or is it just the same people all talking to each other so are you sort of cut off from the rest of the world in your book social physics you talk about rewards and incentives isms and one of the things that struck me as you say that that rewards that people are actually more motivated by rewards for others than for themselves correct me if I'm wrong if paraphrasing you wrong there but but there's but but rewarding the group or or doing something good for somebody else is actually a powerful incentive is it is that the true the case well you said it almost right so so if you want to change behavior these social incentives are more powerful than financial incentives so if you have everybody in a group let's say and people are rewarded by the behavior of the other people in the group what will they do well they'll talk to the other people about doing the right thing because their reward my reward depends on your behavior so I'm gonna talk to you about it okay and your reward depends on it you'll talk and I don't know so what we're doing is we're creating much more communication around this problem and social pressure because you know if you don't do it you're screwing me and and you know I may not be a big thing but you're gonna think twice about that whereas some small financial award usually it's not such a big thing for people so if you think people talk a lot about you know persona persona marketing when I first met John Fourier he had this idea of affinity rank which was his version of you know peer group PageRank hmm do you do you hear a lot about you know get a lot of questions about persona persona marketing and and what does your research show in terms of how we should be appealing to that persona so sorry good questions about that some time and I don't know what he really originally intended but the way people often imply it is very static you have a particular persona that's fixed for all parts of your life well that's not true I mean you could be a baseball coach for your kid and a banker during the day and a member of a church and those are three different personas and what defines those personas it's the group that you're interacting with it's it's the the people you learn with and try and fit in so your persona is a variable thing and the thing that's the key to it is what are the groups that you're you're interacting with so if I analyzed your groups of interactions I'd see three different clusters I'd see the baseball one I'd say the banking one I'd see the church group one and then I would know that you have three personas and I could tell which one you're in typically by seeing who you're spending time with right now is the risk of applying this idea of behaviors influenced by groups is there the risk of falling over into profiling and essentially treating people anticipating behaviors based upon characteristics that may not be indicative of how any individual might act back credit alcoholics as you example right I don't get a job because people like people who are similar to me tend to be alcoholics let's say this is different though so this is not people who are similar to you if you hang out with alcoholics all the time then they're really eyes are good on that you're an alcoholic it may not be yes and there is a risk of over identifying or or extrapolating but it's different than people like me I mean if you go to the you know the dingy bars were beers or a buck and everybody gets wasted and you do that repeatedly you're talking about behaviors rather than characteristics behaviors rather than characteristics right I mean you know if you drink a lot maybe you drink a lot so we have a question from the crowd so it says real time makes persona very difficult yeah so it was come back to furriers premise was I was Twitter data you know such is changing very rapidly so are there social platforms that you see that can inform in real time to help us sort of get a better understanding of persona and affinity group affinity well there are data sources that do that right so first as if I look at telephone data or credit card data even for that matter sure this geo-located I can ask but what sort of people buy here or what sort of people are in this bar or restaurant and I can look at their demographics and where they go to I showed an example of that in San Francisco using data from San Francisco so there is this data which means that any app that's interested in it that has sufficient breadth and although sufficient adoption can do these sorts of analyses can you give an example of how you're working with the many organizations now I'm sure you can't name them but can you give an example of how you're applying these principles practically now whether it's in law enforcement or in consumer marketing how are you putting these to work well there's a bunch of different things that that go together with this view of you know it's the flow of ideas that's the important thing not the demographics so talk about behavior change and we're working with a small country to change their traffic safety by enrolling people in small groups where you know the benefit I get for driving right depends on your safety and we're good buddies we know that that's how you sign up sign up with your buddies and what that means is I'm going to talk to you about your driving if you're driving in a dangerous way and that we've seen in small experiments is a lot more effective than giving you points on your driver's license or discount on your insurance the social relationships so so that's an example another example is we're beginning a project to look at unemployment and what we see is is that people have a hard time getting re-employed don't have diverse enough social networks and it sounds kind of common sense but they don't physically get out enough compared to the people that do get jobs so what's the obvious thing well you encouraged them to get out more you make it easier for them to get out more so those are some examples when you talk about health care what you can do is you can say well look you know I don't know particular things you're doing but based on the behavior that you show right and the behavior of the people you hang with you may be at much higher risk of diabetes and it's not any particular behavior this is the way medical stuff is always pitched is you know it's this behavior that beer every combination of things all right and so you're not really aware that you're doing anything bad but if all your buds are at risk of it then you probably are too because you're probably doing a lot of the same sort of behaviors and medicine is a place where people are willing to give up some of the privacy because the consequences are so important so we're looking at people who are interested in personalized medicine and are willing to you know share their data about where they go and what they spend time doing in order to get statistics back from the people they spend time with about what are the risk factors they pick up from the people around them and the behaviors they engage in um your message this to the cdos today was you know you were sort of joking you're measuring that right and a lot of times they weren't a lot of the non-intuitive things your research has found so I wanna talk about the data and access to the data and how the CBO can you know affect change in their organization a lot of the data lives in silos I mean if they certainly think of social data Facebook LinkedIn yeah Twitter you mentioned credit card data is that a problem or is data becoming more accessible through api's or is it still just sort of a battle to get that data architecture running well it's a it's a battle and in fact actually it's a political and very passionate battle and it revolves around who controls the data and privacy is a big part of that so one of the messages is that to be able to get really ditch data sources you have to engage with the customer a lot so people are more than willing our research we've set up you know entire cities where we've changed the rules and we've found that people are more than willing to volunteer very detailed personal data under two conditions one is they have to know that it's safe so you're not reselling it you're handling it in a secure way it's not going to get out in some way and the other is that they get value for it and they can see the value so it's not spreading out and they're part of the discussion so you know you want more personalized medicine people are willing to share right because it's important to them or for their family you know if you want to share we're willing to share very personal stuff about their kids they would never do that but if it results in the kid getting a better education more opportunity yeah they're absolutely willing so that leads to a great segue into enigma yeah you talked about enigma as a potential security layer for the internet but also potential privacy yeah solution so talk about enigma where it's at yeah what it is where it's at and how it potentially could permeate yeah so we've been building architectures and working with this sort of problem this conundrum basically datas and silos people feel paranoid and probably correctly about their data leaky now companies don't have access to data don't know what to do with it and a lot of it has to do with safe sharing another aspect of this problem is cybersecurity you're getting increasing the amount of attacks done stuff bad for companies bad for people it's just going to get worse and we actually know what the answers to these things are the answers our data is encrypted all the time everywhere you do the computation on encrypted data you never transmit it you never unencrypted it to be able to do things we also know that in terms of control of the data is possible to build fairly simple permission mechanisms so that you know the computer just won't share it in the wrong places and if it does you know skyrockets go up and the cop scum you can build systems like that today but the part that's never been able never allowed that to happen is you need to keep track of a lot of things in a way that's not hackable you need to know that somebody doesn't just short-circuit it or take it out the back and what's interesting is the mechanisms that are in Bitcoin give you exactly that power so you whatever you feel about Bitcoin you know it's speculative bubble or whatever the blockchain which is part of it is this open ledger that is unhackable and and has the following characteristics that's amazing it's called trustless what that means is you can work with a bunch of crooks and still know that the ledger that you're keeping is correct because it doesn't require trusting people to work with them it's something where everybody has to agree to be able to get things and it works it works in Bitcoin at scale over the whole world and so what we've done is adapted that technology to be able to build a system called enigma which takes data in an encrypted form computes on it in an encrypted form transmits it according to the person's permissions and only that way in an encrypted form and you know it provides this layer of security and privacy that we've never had before there have been some projects that come close to this but know we're pretty excited about this and and what I think you're going to see is you're going to see some of the big financial institutions trying to use it among themselves some of the big logistics some of the big medical things trying to use it in in hotspots where they have real problems but the hope is is that it gets spread among the general population so it becomes quite literally the privacy and security level that doesn't have Warren Buffett might be right that it might fail as a currency but the technology has really inspired some new innovations that's right so so it's essentially a distributed it's not a walled garden it's a distributed black box that's what you're describing you never exposed the data that's right you don't need a trusted third party that's getting attacked that's right nobody has to stamp that this is correct because the moment you do that first of all other people are controlling you and the second thing is is there a point of attack so it gets rid of that trusted third party centralization makes it distributed you can have again a bunch of bad actors in the system it doesn't hurt it's peer-to-peer where you have to have 51% of the people being bad before things really go bad how do you solve the problem of performing calculations on encrypted data because they're classic techniques actually it's been known for over 20 years how to do that but there are two pieces missing one piece is it wasn't efficient it scaled really poorly and what we did is came up with a way of solving that by making it essentially multi scale so it's it's a distributed solution for this that brings the cost down to something that's linear in the number of elements which is a real change and the second is keeping track of all of the stuff in a way that's secure it's fine to have an addition that's secure you know but if that isn't better than a whole system that secure it doesn't do you any good and so that's where the blockchain comes in it gives you this accounting mechanism for knowing which computations are being done who has access to them what the keys are things like that so Google glass was sort of incubated in MIT Media labs and well before yeah my group you go right in your group and yeah it didn't take off me because it's just not cool it looks kind of goofy but now enigma has a lot of potential solving a huge problem are you can open-source it what do you yeah it's an open-source system we hope to get more people involved in it and right now we're looking for some test beds to show how well it works and make sure that all the things are dotted and crossed and so forth and where can people learn more about it oh go to a nygma dot media dot mit.edu all right sandy we're way over our time so obviously you were interesting so thanks keep right there buddy Paul and I we right back with our next guest we're live from see this is the cube right back [Music]