we're back at vemma in 2022 we're here at the aria hotel in las vegas this is thecube's continuous coverage we're day two welcome to the cxo session we have ceo cto cso chief strategy officer brett diamond is the ceo justin jardina is the cto and dante orsini is the chief strategy officer for 11 11 systems recently named i guess today the impact cloud service provider of the year congratulations guys welcome thank you welcome back to the cube great to see you again thank you great likewise so okay brett let's start with you tell give us the overview of 11 1111 uh your focus area talk about the the the island acquisition what that what that's all about give us the setup yeah so we started 11-11 uh really with a focus on taking the three core pillars of our business which are cloud connectivity and security bring them together into one platform allowing a much easier way for our customers and our partners to procure those three solution sets through a single company and really focus on uh the three main drivers of the business uh which you know have a litany of other services associated with them under each platform okay so so justin cloud connectivity and security they all dramatically changed in march of 2020 everybody had to go to the cloud the rather rethink the network had a secure remote worker so what did you see from a from a cto's perspective what changed and how did 11 respond sure so early on when we built our cloud even back into 2008 we really focused on enterprise great features one of which being uh very flexible in the networking so we found early on was that we would be able to architect solutions for customers that were dipping their toe in the cloud and set ourselves apart from some of the vendors at the time so if you fast forward from 2008 until today we still see that as a main component for iaz and draz and the ability to start taking into some of the things brett talked about where customers may need a point-to-point circuit to offload data connectivity to us or develop sd-wan and multi-cloud solutions to connect to their resources in the cloud in my opinion it's just the natural progression of what we set out to do in 2008 and to couple that with the security um if you think about what that opens up from a security landscape now you have multiple clouds you have different ingress and egress points you have different people accessing workloads in each one of these clouds so the idea or our idea is that we can layer a comprehensive security solution over this new multi-cloud networking world and then provide visibility and manageability to our customer base so what does that mean specifically for your customers because i mean we saw obviously a rapid move toward endpoint um cloud security uh identity access you know people really started thinking rethinking that as opposed to trying to just you know build a moat around the castle right um what does that mean for for your customer you take care of all that you partner with whomever you need to partner in the ecosystem and then you provide the managed service how does that work right it does and that's a great analogy you know we have a picture of a hamburger in our office exploded with all the components and they say a good security policy is all the pieces and it's really synonymous with what you said so to answer your question yes we have all that baked in the platform we can offer managed services around it but we also give the consumer the ability to access that data whether it's a ui or api so dante i know you talk to a lot of customers all you do is watch the stock market go like this and like that you say okay the pandemic drove all these but but when you talk to csos and customers a lot of things are changing permanently first of all they were forced to march to digital when previously they were like we'll get there i mean a lot of customers were let's face it i mean some were serious about it but many weren't now if you're not a digital business you're out of business what have you seen when you talk to customers in terms of the permanence of some of these changes what are they telling you well i think we go through this for ourselves right the business continues to grow you've got tons of people that are working remotely and that are going to continue to work remotely right as much as we'd like to offer up hybrid workspace and things like that some folks are like hey i've worked it out i'm working out great from home right and also i think what justin was saying also is we've seen time go on that operating environment has gotten much more complex you've got stuff in the data center stuff it's somebody's you know endpoint you've got various different public clouds different sas services right that's why it's been phenomenal to work with veeam because we can protect that data regardless of where it exists but when you start to look at some of the managed security services that we're talking about we're helping those csos you get better visibility better control and take proactive action against the infrastructure um when we look at threat mitigation and how to actually respond when when something does happen right and i think that's the key because there's no shortage of great security vendors right but how do you tie it all together into a single solution right with a vendor that you can actually partner with to help secure the environment while you go focus on the things they're more strategic to the business i was talking to jim mercer at um red hat summit last week he's an idc analyst and he said we did a survey i think it was last summer and we asked customers to your point about there's no shortage of security tools how do you want to buy your security and you know do you want you know best to breed bespoke tools and you sort of put it together or do you kind of want your platform provider to do it now surprisingly they said platform provider the the problem is that's aspirational for a lot of platforms providers so they've got to look to a managed service provider so brett talk about the the island acquisition what green cloud is how that all fits together so we acquired island and green cloud last year and the reality is that the people at both of those companies and the technology is what drove us to making those acquisitions they were the foundational pieces to eleven eleven uh obviously the things that justin has been able to create from an automation and innovation perspective uh at the company is transforming this business in a litany of different ways as well so those two acquisitions allow us at this point to take a cloud environment on a geographic footprint not only throughout the us but globally uh have a security product that was given to us from from the green cloud acquisition of cascade and add-on connectivity to allow us to have all three platforms in one all three pillars so i like 11 11 11 is near and dear to my heart i am so where'd the name come from uh everybody asked me this question i think five times a day so uh growing up as a kid everyone in my family would always say 11 11 make a wish whenever you'd see it on the clock and uh during coven we were coming up with a new name for the business my daughter looked at the microwave said dad it's 11 11. make a wish the reality was though i had no idea why i'd been doing it for all that time and when you look up kind of the background origination derivation of the word uh it means the time of day when everything's in line um and when things are complex especially with running all the different businesses that we have aligning them so that they're working together it seemed like a perfect man when i had the big corner office at idc i had my staff meetings at 11 11. because the universe was aligned and then the other thing was nobody could forget the time so they gave him 11 minutes to be there now you'll see it all the time even when you don't want to so justin we've been talking a lot about ransomware and and not just backup but recovery my friend fred moore who you know coined the phrase backup is one thing recovery is everything and recovery time network speeds and and the like are critical especially when you're thinking cloud how are you architecting recovery for your clients maybe you could dig into that a little bit sure so it's really a multitude of things you know you mentioned ransomware seeing the ransomware landscape evolve over time especially in our business with backup and dr it's very singular you know people protecting against host nodes now we're seeing ransomware be able to get into an environment land and expand actually delete backups target backup vendors so the ransomware point i guess um trying to battle that is a multi-step process right you need to think about how data flows into the organization from a security perspective from a networking perspective you need to think about how your workloads are protected and then when you think about backups i know we're at veeam vmon now talking about veeam there's a multitude of ways to protect that data whether it's retention whether it's immutability air gapping data so while i know we focus a lot sometimes on protecting data it's really that hamburg analogy where the sum of the parts make up the protection so how do you provide services i mean you say okay you want immutability there's a there's a line item for that um you want faster or you know low rpo fast rto how does that all work for as a customer what what am i buying from you is it just a managed service we'll take care of everything platinum gold silver or is it if if you don't mind so i'm glad you asked that question because this is something that's very unique about us years ago his team actually built the ip because we were scaling at such an incredible rate globally through all our joint partners with veeam that how do we take all the intelligence that we have in his team and all of our solution architects and scale it so they actually developed a tool called catalyst and it's a pre-sales tool it's an application you download it you install it it basically takes a snapshot of your environment you start to manipulate the data what are you trying to do dave are you trying to protect that data are you backing up to us are you trying to replicate for dr purposes um you know what are you doing for production or maybe it's a migration it analyzes the network it analyzes all your infrastructure it helps the ses know immediately if we're a feasible solution based on what you are trying to do so nobody in the space is doing this and that's been a huge key to our growth because the channel community as well as the customer they're working with real data so we can get past all the garbage and get right to what's important for them for the outcome yeah that's huge who do you guys sell to is it is it more mid-sized businesses that maybe don't have the large teams is it larger enterprises who want to complement to their business is it both well i would say with the two acquisitions that we made the go-to-market sales strategies and the clientele were very different when you look at green cloud they're selling predominantly wholesale through msps and those msps are mostly selling to smbs right so we covered that smb market for the most part through our acquisition of green cloud island on the other hand was more focused on selling direct inbound through vars through the channel mid enterprise big enterprise so really those two acquisitions outside of the ip that we got from the systems we have every single go-to-market sale strategy and we're aligned from smb all the way up to the fortune 500. i heard a stat a couple months ago that that less than 50 of enterprises have a sock it blew me away and you know even small businesses need one they may not be able to afford but certainly a medium size or larger business should have some kind of sock is it does that stat jive with what you're seeing in the marketplace 100 if that's true the need for a managed service like this is just it's going to explode it is exploding yeah i mean 100 right there is zero unemployment in the cyberspace right just north america alone there's about a million or so folks in that space and right now you've got about 600 000 open wrecks just in north america right so earlier we talked about no shortage of tools right but the shortage of head count is a significant challenge big time right most importantly the people that you do have on staff they've got alert fatigue from the tools that they do have that's why you're seeing this massive insurgence in the managed security services provider lack of talent is number one challenge for csos that's what they'll tell you and there's no end in sight to that and it's you know another tool and and it's amazing because you see security companies popping up all the time billion dollar evaluations i mean lacework did a billion dollar raise and so so there's no shortage of funding now maybe that'll change you know with the market but i wanted to turn our attention to the keynotes this morning you guys got some serious love up on stage um there was a demo uh it was a pretty pretty cool demo fast recovery very very tight rpo as i recall it was i think four minutes of data loss is that right was that the right knit stat i was happy it wasn't zero data loss because there's really you know no such thing uh but so you got to feel good about that tell us about um how that all came about your relationship with with veeam who wants to take it sure i can i can take a step at it so one of the or two of the things that i'm um most excited about at least with this vmon is our team was able to work with veeam on that demo and what that demo was showing was some cdp-based features for cloud providers so we're really happy to see that and the reason why we're happy to see that is that with the veeam platform it's now given the customers the ability to do things like snapshot replication cdp replication on-prem backup cloud backup immutability air gap the list goes on and on and in our opinion having a singular software vendor that can provide all that through you know with a cloud provider on prem or not is really like the icing on the cake so for us it's very exciting to see that and then also coupled with a lot of the innovation that veeam's doing in the sas space right so again having that umbrella product that can cover all those use cases i'll tell you if you guys can get a that was a very cool demo if we can get a youtube of that that that demo i'll make sure we put it in the the show notes and uh of this video or maybe pop it into one of the blogs that we write about it um so so how you guys feel i mean this is a new chapter for you very cool with a couple of acquisitions that are now the main mainspring of your strategy so the first veeam on in a couple years so what's the vibe been like for you what's the nighttime activity the customer interaction i know you guys are running a lot of the back end demos so you're everywhere what's the what's the vibe like at veeamon and how does it feel to be back look at that one at dante as far as yeah you got a lot of experience here yeah let me loose on this one dave i'm like so excited about this right it's been it's been far too long to get face to face again and um veeam always does it right and i think that uh for years we've been back-ending like all the hands-on lab infrastructure here but forget about that i think the part that's really exciting is getting face-to-face with such a great team right we have phenomenal architects that we work with at veeam day in and day out they put up with us pushing them pushing and pushing them and together we've been able to create a lot of magic together right but i think it's you can't replace the human interaction that we've all been starving for for the last two years but the vibe's always fantastic at veeam if you're going to be around tonight i'll be looking forward to enjoying some of that veeam love with you at the after party yeah that's well famous after parties we'll see if that culture continues i have a feeling it will um brett where do you want to take 11 11. a new new phase in all of your careers you got a great crew out here it looks like i i love that you're all out and uh make some noise here people let's hear it all right let's see you this is the biggest audience we've had all week where do you want to take 11 11. i think you know if uh if you look at what we've done so far in the short six months since the acquisitions of green cloud and ireland obviously the integration is a key piece we're going to be laser focused on growing organically across those three pillars we've got to put more capital and resources into the incredible ip like i said earlier that just and his team have created on those front ends the user experience but you know we made two large acquisitions obviously mna is a is a key piece for us we're going to be diligent and we're probably going to be very aggressive on that front as well to be able to grow this business into the global leader of cloud connectivity and security and i think we've really hit a void in the industry that's been looking for this for a very long time and we want to be the first ones to be able to collaborate and combine those three into one when the when the cloud started to hit the steep part of the s-curve kind of early part of the last decade people thought oh wow these managed service providers are toast the exact opposite happened it created such a tailwind and need for consistent services and integration and managed services we've seen it all across the stack so guys wish you best of luck congratulations on the acquisitions thank you uh hope to have you back soon yeah thank you around the block all right keep it right there everybody dave vellante for the cube's coverage of veeamon 2022 we'll be right back after this short break

(pleasant music) >> We're back at Veeamon 2022. We're here at the Aria hotel in Las Vegas. This is theCube's continuous coverage. We're in day two. Welcome to the CXO session. We have CEO, CTO, CSO, chief strategy officer. Brett Diamond is the CEO, Justin Giardina is the CTO, and Dante Orsini is the chief strategy officer for 11:11 Systems recently named, I guess today, the impact cloud service provider of the year. Congratulations, guys. Welcome to theCube. Welcome back to theCube. Great to see you again. >> Thank you. >> Great. >> Likewise. >> Thanks for having us. Okay, Brett, let's start with you. Give us the overview of 11:11, your focus area, talk about the Island acquisition, what that's all about, give us the setup. >> Yeah, so we started 11:11, really, with a focus on taking the three core pillars of our business, which are cloud, connectivity, and security, bring them together into one platform, allowing a much easier way for our customers and our partners to procure those three solution sets through a single company and really focus on the three main drivers of the business, which, you know, have a litany of other services associated with them under each platform. >> Okay, so Justin, cloud connectivity and security, they all dramatically changed in March of 2020. Everybody had to go to the cloud, had to rethink the network, had to secure remote workers. So what did you see, from a CTO's perspective, what changed and how did 11:11 respond? >> Sure, so early on, when we built our cloud, even back into 2008, we really focused on enterprise grade features, one of which being very flexible in the networking. So we found early on was that we would be able to architect solutions for customers that were dipping their toe in the cloud and set ourselves apart from some of the vendors at the time. So if you fast forward from 2008 until today, we still see that as a main component for IaaS and DRaaS and the ability to start taking into some of the things Brett talked about, where customers may need a point to point circuit to offload data connectivity to us, or develop SD-WAN and multi-cloud solutions to connect to their resources in the cloud. In my opinion, it's just the natural progression of what we set out to do in 2008. And to couple that with the security, if you think about what that opens up from a security landscape, now you have multiple clouds, you have different ingress and egress points, you have different people accessing workloads in each one of these clouds, so the idea or our idea is that we can layer a comprehensive security solution over this new multi-cloud networking world and then provide visibility and manageability to our customer base. >> So what does that mean specifically for your customers? Because, I mean, we saw obviously a rapid move toward end point, cloud security, identity access. You know, people really started rethinking that as opposed to trying to just, you know, build a moat around the castle. >> Right. >> What does that mean for your customer? You take care of all that? You partner with whomever you need to partner in the ecosystem and then you provide the managed service? How does that work? >> Right. It does and that's a great analogy. You know, we have a picture of a hamburger in our office, exploded with all the components and they say, a good security policy has all the pieces and it's really synonymous with what you said. So to answer your question, yes. We have all that baked in the platform. We can offer managed services around it, but we also give the consumer the ability to access that data, whether it's a UI or API. >> So Dante, I know you talked to a lot of customers. All you do is watch the stock market go like this and like that and you say, okay, the pandemic drove all these, but when you talk to CISOs and customers, a lot of things are changing permanently. First of all, they were forced to march to digital when previously, they were like, eh, we'll get there. I mean, a lot of customers were. Let's face it. I mean, some were serious about it, but many weren't. Now, if you're not a digital business, you're out of business. What have you seen when you talk to customers in terms of the permanence of some of these changes? What are they telling you? >> Well, I think, you know, we go through this ourselves, right? The business continues to grow. You've got tons of people that are working remotely and they are going to continue to work remotely, right? As much as we'd like to offer up hybrid workspace and things like that, some folks are like, hey, I've worked it out. I'm working out great from home, right? And also, I think what Justin was saying also is, as we've seen time go on, that operating environment has gotten much more complex. You've got stuff in the data center, stuff in somebody's, you know, endpoint, you've got various different public clouds, different SAS services, right? That's why it's been phenomenal to work with Veeam because we can protect that data regardless of where it exists. But when you start to look at some of the managed security services that we're talking about, we're helping those CSOs, you know, get better visibility, better control, and take proactive action against the infrastructure when we look at threat mitigation and how to actually respond when something does happen, right? And I think that's the key because there's no shortage of great security vendors, right? But how do you tie it all together into a single solution, right, with a vendor that you can actually partner with to help secure the environment while you go focus on the things that are more strategic to the business? >> I was talking to Jim Mercer at Red Hat Summit last week. He's an IDC analyst and we did a survey, I think it was last summer, and we asked customers to your point about, there's no shortage of security tools. How do you want to buy your security? And, you know, do you want, you know, best to breed bespoke tools and you sort of put it together or do you kind of want your platform provider to do it? Now surprisingly, they said platform provider. The problem is, that's aspirational for a lot of platform providers, so they got to look to a managed service provider. So Brett, talk about the Island acquisition, what Green Cloud is, how that all fits together. >> So we acquired Island and Green Cloud last year and the reality is, the people at both of those companies and the technology is what drove us to making those acquisitions. They were the foundational pieces to 11:11. Obviously, the things that Justin has been able to create from an automation and innovation perspective at the company is transforming this business in a litany of different ways, as well. So, those two acquisitions allow us at this point to take a cloud environment on a geographic footprint, not only throughout the US but globally, have a security product that was given to us from the Green Cloud acquisition of Cascade, and add on connectivity to allow us to have all three platforms in one, all three pillars in one. >> So I like 11:11. 11:11 is near and dear to my heart. So where'd the name come from? >> Everybody asked me this question, I think, five times a day. So growing up as a kid, everyone in my family would always say 11:11 make a wish whenever you'd see it on the clock. And during COVID, we were coming up with a new name for the business. My daughter looked at the microwave, said, dad, it's 11:11, make a wish. The reality was though, I had no idea why I'd been doing it for all that time and when you look up kind of the background origination, derivation of the word, it means the time of day when everything's in line and when things are complex, especially with running all the different businesses that we have, aligning them so that they're working together, it seemed like the perfect thing >> So when I had the big corner office at IDC, I had my staff meetings at 11:11. >> Yep. >> Because the universe was aligned and then the other thing was, nobody could forget the time. So they gave me 11 minutes to be there, so they were never late. >> And now you'll see it all the time, even when you don't want to. (chuckles) >> So Justin, we've been talking a lot about ransomware and not just backup, but recovery. My friend, Fred Moore, who, you know, coined the phrase backup is one thing, recovery is everything, and recovery time, network speeds and the like are critical, especially when you're thinking cloud. How are you architecting recovery for your clients? Maybe you could dig into that a little bit. >> Sure. So it's really a multitude of things. You know, you mention ransomware. Seeing the ransomware landscape evolve over time, especially in our business with backup NDR, is very singular, you know, people protecting against host nodes. Now we're seeing ransomware be able to get into an environment, land and expand, actually delete backups, target backup vendors. So the ransomware point, I guess, trying to battle that is a multi-step process, right? You need to think about how data flows into the organization from a security perspective, from a networking perspective, you need to think about how your workloads are protected, and then when you think about backups, I know we're at Veeamon now talking about Veeam, there's a multitude of ways to protect that data, whether it's retention, whether it's immutability, air gapping data. So, while I know we focus a lot sometimes on protecting data, it's really that hamburger analogy where the sum of the parts make up the protection. >> So how do you provide services? I mean, do you say, okay, do you want immutability? There's a line item for that. You want low RPO, fast RTO? How does that all work as a customer? What am I buying from you? Is it just a managed service? We'll take care of everything, platinum, gold, silver, or is it? >> If you don't mind, so I'm glad you asked that question because this is something that's very unique about us. Years ago, his team actually built the IP because we were scaling at such an incredible rate globally through all our joint partners with Veeam that, how do we take all the intelligence that we have and his team and all of our solution architects and scale it? So they actually developed a tool called Catalyst, and it's a pre-sales tool. It's an application. You download it, you install it. It basically takes a snapshot of your environment. You start to manipulate the data. What are you trying to do, Dave? Are you trying to protect that data? Are you backing up to us? Are you trying to replicate it for DR purposes? You know, what are you doing for production, or maybe it's a migration? It analyzes the network. It analyzes all your infrastructure. It helps the SEs know immediately if we're a feasible solution based on what you are trying to do. So, nobody in the space is doing this and that's been a huge key to our growth because the channel community, as well as the customer, they're working with real data. So we can get past all the garbage, you get right to what's important for them for the outcome. >> Yeah, that's huge. Who do you guys sell to? Is it more mid-size businesses that maybe don't have the large teams? Is it larger enterprises who want to compliment to their business? Is it both? >> Well, I would say with the two acquisitions that we made to go to market sales strategies and the clientele were very different, when you look at Green Cloud, they're selling predominantly wholesale through MSPs and those MSPs are mostly selling to SMBs, right? So we covered that SMB market for the most part through our acquisition of Green Cloud. Island, on the other hand, was more focused on selling direct, inbound, through VARs through the channel, mid-enterprise, big enterprise. So really, those two acquisitions outside of the IP that we got from the systems, we have every single go to market sales strategy and we're aligned from SMB all the way up to the Fortune 500. >> I heard a stat a couple months ago that less than 50% of enterprises have a SAQ. That blew me away. And, you know, even small businesses need one. They may not be able to afford, but there's certainly a medium size or a larger business should have some kind of SAQ. Does that stat jive with what you're seeing in the marketplace? >> A hundred percent. >> If that's true, the need for a managed service like this, it's going to explode. It is exploding, I mean. >> Yeah, I mean, a hundred percent, right? There is zero unemployment in the cyberspace, right? Just North America alone, there's about a million or so folks in that space and right now you've got about 600,000 open recs just in North America, right? So earlier, we talked about no shortage of tools, right? But the shortage of headcount is a significant challenge, big time, right? Most importantly, the people that you do have on staff, they've got alert fatigue from the tools that they do have. That's why you're seeing this massive surgence in the managed security services provider. >> Lack of talent is number one challenge for CISOs. That's what they'll tell you and there's no end in sight to that. And it's, you know, another tool and it's amazing 'cause you see security companies popping up all the time. I mean, billion dollar valuations, I mean, Lacework did a billion dollar raise. And so, there's no shortage of funding. Now, maybe that'll change, you know, with the market but I wanted to turn our attention to the keynotes this morning. You guys got some serious love up on stage. There was a demo. It was a pretty cool demo, fast recovery, very tight RPO, as I recall. It was, I think, four minutes of, of data loss? Is that right? Is that the right stat? I was happy it wasn't zero data loss 'cause there's really, you know, no such thing, but so you got to feel good about that. Tell us about how that all came about, your relationship with Veeam. Who wants to take it? >> Sure, I can take a stab at it. So two of the things that I'm most excited about, at least with this Veeamon, is our team was able to work with Veeam on that demo, and what that demo was showing was some CDP based features for cloud providers. So we're really happy to see that and the reason why we're happy to see that is that with the Veeam platform, it's now given the customers the ability to do things like snapshot replication, CDP replication, on-prem backup, cloud backup, immutability air gap, the list goes on and on. And in our opinion, having a singular software vendor that can provide all that, you know, with a cloud provider on-prem or not is really like, the icing on the cake. So for us, it's very exciting to see that, and then also coupled with a lot of the innovation that's Veeam's doing in the SAS space, right? So again, having that umbrella product that can cover all those use cases. >> I'll tell you, that was a very cool demo. If you can get a YouTube of that demo, I'll make sure we put it in the show notes of this video or maybe pop it into one of the blogs that we write about it. So, how do you guys feel? I mean, this is a new chapter for you. Very cool, with a couple of acquisitions that are now the main spring of your strategy, so the first Veeamon in a couple years. So what's the vibe been like for you? What's the nighttime activity, the customer interaction? I know you guys are running a lot of the backend demos, so you're everywhere. What's the vibe like at Veeamon and how does it feel to be back? >> I'll give that one to Dante as far as the vibes, so far. >> Yeah, yeah, you got a lot of experience. >> Yeah, let me loose on this one, Dave. I'm like, so excited about this, right? It's been far too long to get face to face again and Veeam always does it right. And I think that for years, we've been back ending like, all the hands on lab infrastructure here, but forget about that. I think the part that's really exciting is getting face to face with such a great team, right? We have phenomenal architects that we work with at Veeam day in and day out. They put up with us, pushing them, pushing them, pushing them and together, we've been able to create a lot of magic together, right? But I think you can't replace the human interaction that we've all been starving for, for the last two years. But the vibe's always fantastic at Veeam. If you're going to be around tonight, I'll be looking forward to enjoying some of that Veeam love with you at the after party. >> Yeah, well, famous after parties. We'll see if that culture continues. I have a feeling it will. Brett, where do you want to take 11:11? New phase in all of your careers. You got a great crew out here, it looks like. I love that you're all out and, make some noise here, people. Let's hear it! (audience cheering) You see, this is the biggest audience we've had all week. Where do you want to take 11:11? >> I think, you know, if you look at what we've done so far in the short six months since the acquisitions of Green Cloud and Island, obviously the integration is a key piece. We're going to be laser focused on growing organically across those three pillars. We've got to put more capital and resources into the incredible IP, like I said earlier, that Justin and his team have created on those front ends, the user experience. But, you know, we made two large acquisitions, obviously M and A is a key piece for us. We're going to be diligent and we're probably going to be very aggressive on that front as well, to be able to grow this business into the global leader of cloud connectivity and security. And I think we've really hit a void in the industry that's been looking for this for a very long time and we want to be the first ones to be able to collaborate and combine those three into one. >> When the cloud started to hit the steep part of the S-curve, kind of early part of last decade, people thought, oh wow, these managed service providers are toast. The exact opposite happened. It created such a tailwind and need for consistent services and integration and managed services. We've seen it all across the stacks. So guys, wish you best of luck. Congratulations on the acquisitions, >> Thank you. >> And hope to have you back soon. >> Absolutely, thanks for having us. >> All right, keep it right there everybody. Dave Vellante for theCube's coverage of Veeamon 2022. We'll be right back after this short break. (pleasant music)

>>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020, sponsored by Intel and AWS. >>Welcome back to the cubes coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 I'm Lisa Martin. Joining me next is one of our cube alumni. Breton McMillan is back the director of us, federal for AWS. Right. It's great to see you glad that you're safe and well. >>Great. It's great to be back. Uh, I think last year when we did the cube, we were on the convention floor. It feels very different this year here at reinvent, it's gone virtual and yet it's still true to how reinvent always been. It's a learning conference and we're releasing a lot of new products and services for our customers. >>Yes. A lot of content, as you say, the one thing I think I would say about this reinvent, one of the things that's different, it's so quiet around us. Normally we're talking loudly over tens of thousands of people on the showroom floor, but great. That AWS is still able to connect in such an actually an even bigger way with its customers. So during Theresa Carlson's keynote, want to get your opinion on this or some info. She talked about the AWS open data sponsorship program, and that you guys are going to be hosting the national institutes of health, NIH sequence, read archive data, the biologist, and may former gets really excited about that. Talk to us about that because especially during the global health crisis that we're in, that sounds really promising >>Very much is I am so happy that we're working with NIH on this and multiple other initiatives. So the secret greed archive or SRA, essentially what it is, it's a very large data set of sequenced genomic data. And it's a wide variety of judge you gnomic data, and it's got a knowledge human genetic thing, but all life forms or all branches of life, um, is in a SRA to include viruses. And that's really important here during the pandemic. Um, it's one of the largest and oldest, um, gen sequence genomic data sets are out there and yet it's very modern. It has been designed for next generation sequencing. So it's growing, it's modern and it's well used. It's one of the more important ones that it's out there. One of the reasons this is so important is that we know to find cures for what a human ailments and disease and death, but by studying the gem genomic code, we can come up with the answers of these or the scientists can come up with answer for that. And that's what Amazon is doing is we're putting in the hands of the scientists, the tools so that they can help cure heart disease and diabetes and cancer and, um, depression and yes, even, um, uh, viruses that can cause pandemics. >>So making this data, sorry, I'm just going to making this data available to those scientists. Worldwide is incredibly important. Talk to us about that. >>Yeah, it is. And so, um, within NIH, we're working with, um, the, um, NCBI when you're dealing with NIH, there's a lot of acronyms, uh, and uh, at NIH, it's the national center for, um, file type technology information. And so we're working with them to make this available as an open data set. Why, why this is important is it's all about increasing the speed for scientific discovery. I personally think that in the fullness of time, the scientists will come up with cures for just about all of the human ailments that are out there. And it's our job at AWS to put into the hands of the scientists, the tools they need to make things happen quickly or in our lifetime. And I'm really excited to be working with NIH on that. When we start talking about it, there's multiple things. The scientists needs. One is access to these data sets and SRA. >>It's a very large data set. It's 45 petabytes and it's growing. I personally believe that it's going to double every year, year and a half. So it's a very large data set and it's hard to move that data around. It's so much easier if you just go into the cloud, compute against it and do your research there in the cloud. And so it's super important. 45 petabytes, give you an idea if it were all human data, that's equivalent to have a seven and a half million people or put another way 90% of everybody living in New York city. So that's how big this is. But then also what AWS is doing is we're bringing compute. So in the cloud, you can scale up your compute, scale it down, and then kind of the third they're. The third leg of the tool of the stool is giving the scientists easy access to the specialized tool sets they need. >>And we're doing that in a few different ways. One that the people would design these toolsets design a lot of them on AWS, but then we also make them available through something called AWS marketplace. So they can just go into marketplace, get a catalog, go in there and say, I want to launch this resolve work and launches the infrastructure underneath. And it speeds the ability for those scientists to come up with the cures that they need. So SRA is stored in Amazon S3, which is a very popular object store, not just in the scientific community, but virtually every industry uses S3. And by making this available on these public data sets, we're giving the scientists the ability to speed up their research. >>One of the things that Springs jumps out to me too, is it's in addition to enabling them to speed up research, it's also facilitating collaboration globally because now you've got the cloud to drive all of this, which allows researchers and completely different parts of the world to be working together almost in real time. So I can imagine the incredible power that this is going to, to provide to that community. So I have to ask you though, you talked about this being all life forms, including viruses COVID-19, what are some of the things that you think we can see? I expect this to facilitate. Yeah. >>So earlier in the year we took the, um, uh, genetic code or NIH took the genetic code and they, um, put it in an SRA like format and that's now available on AWS and, and here's, what's great about it is that you can now make it so anybody in the world can go to this open data set and start doing their research. One of our goals here is build back to a democratization of research. So it used to be that, um, get, for example, the very first, um, vaccine that came out was a small part. It's a vaccine that was done by our rural country doctor using essentially test tubes in a microscope. It's gotten hard to do that because data sets are so large, you need so much computer by using the power of the cloud. We've really democratized it and now anybody can do it. So for example, um, with the SRE data set that was done by NIH, um, organizations like the university of British Columbia, their, um, cloud innovation center is, um, doing research. And so what they've done is they've scanned, they, um, SRA database think about it. They scanned out 11 million entries for, uh, coronavirus sequencing. And that's really hard to do in a typical on-premise data center. Who's relatively easy to do on AWS. So by making this available, we can have a larger number of scientists working on the problems that we need to have solved. >>Well, and as the, as we all know in the U S operation warp speed, that warp speed alone term really signifies how quickly we all need this to be progressing forward. But this is not the first partnership that AWS has had with the NIH. Talk to me about what you guys, what some of the other things are that you're doing together. >>We've been working with NIH for a very long time. Um, back in 2012, we worked with NIH on, um, which was called the a thousand genome data set. This is another really important, um, data set and it's a large number of, uh, against sequence human genomes. And we moved that into, again, an open dataset on AWS and what's happened in the last eight years is many scientists have been able to compute about on it. And the other, the wonderful power of the cloud is over time. We continue to bring out tools to make it easier for people to work. So what they're not they're computing using our, um, our instance types. We call it elastic cloud computing. whether they're doing that, or they were doing some high performance computing using, um, uh, EMR elastic MapReduce, they can do that. And then we've brought up new things that really take it to the next layer, like level like, uh, Amazon SageMaker. >>And this is a, um, uh, makes it really easy for, um, the scientists to launch machine learning algorithms on AWS. So we've done the thousand genome, uh, dataset. Um, there's a number of other areas within NIH that we've been working on. So for example, um, over at national cancer Institute, we've been providing some expert guidance on best practices to how, how you can architect and work on these COVID related workloads. Um, NIH does things with, um, collaboration with many different universities, um, over 2,500, um, academic institutions. And, um, and they do that through grants. And so we've been working with doc office of director and they run their grant management applications in the RFA on AWS, and that allows it to scale up and to work very efficiently. Um, and then we entered in with, um, uh, NIH into this program called strides strides as a program for knowing NIH, but also all these other institutions that work within NIH to use the power of the cloud use commercial cloud for scientific discovery. And when we started that back in July of 2018, long before COVID happened, it was so great that we had that up and running because now we're able to help them out through the strides program. >>Right. Can you imagine if, uh, let's not even go there? I was going to say, um, but so, okay. So the SRA data is available through the AWS open data sponsorship program. You talked about strides. What are some of the other ways that AWS system? >>Yeah, no. So strides, uh, is, uh, you know, wide ranging through multiple different institutes. So, um, for example, over at, uh, the national heart lung and blood Institute, uh, do di NHL BI. I said, there's a lot of acronyms and I gel BI. Um, they've been working on, um, harmonizing, uh, genomic data. And so working with the university of Michigan, they've been analyzing through a program that they call top of med. Um, we've also been working with a NIH on, um, establishing best practices, making sure everything's secure. So we've been providing, um, AWS professional services that are showing them how to do this. So one portion of strides is getting the right data set and the right compute in the right tools, in the hands of the scientists. The other areas that we've been working on is making sure the scientists know how to use it. And so we've been developing these cloud learning pathways, and we started this quite a while back, and it's been so helpful here during the code. So, um, scientists can now go on and they can do self-paced online courses, which we've been really helping here during the, during the pandemic. And they can learn how to maximize their use of cloud technologies through these pathways that we've developed for them. >>Well, not education is imperative. I mean, there, you think about all of the knowledge that they have with within their scientific discipline and being able to leverage technology in a way that's easy is absolutely imperative to the timing. So, so, um, let's talk about other data sets that are available. So you've got the SRA is available. Uh, what are their data sets are available through this program? >>What about along a wide range of data sets that we're, um, uh, doing open data sets and in general, um, these data sets are, um, improving the human condition or improving the, um, the world in which we live in. And so, um, I've talked about a few things. There's a few more, uh, things. So for example, um, there's the cancer genomic Atlas that we've been working with, um, national cancer Institute, as well as the national human genomic research Institute. And, um, that's a very important data set that being computed against, um, uh, throughout the world, uh, commonly within the scientific community, that data set is called TCGA. Um, then we also have some, uh, uh, datasets are focused on certain groups. So for example, kids first is a data set. That's looking at a lot of the, um, challenges, uh, in diseases that kids get every kind of thing from very rare pediatric cancer as to heart defects, et cetera. >>And so we're working with them, but it's not just in the, um, uh, medical side. We have open data sets, um, with, uh, for example, uh, NOAA national ocean open national oceanic and atmospheric administration, um, to understand what's happening better with climate change and to slow the rate of climate change within the department of interior, they have a Landsat database that is looking at pictures of their birth cell, like pictures of the earth, so we can better understand the MCO world we live in. Uh, similarly, uh, NASA has, um, a lot of data that we put out there and, um, over in the department of energy, uh, there's data sets there, um, that we're researching against, or that the scientists are researching against to make sure that we have better clean, renewable energy sources, but it's not just government agencies that we work with when we find a dataset that's important. >>We also work with, um, nonprofit organizations, nonprofit organizations are also in, they're not flush with cash and they're trying to make every dollar work. And so we've worked with them, um, organizations like the child mind Institute or the Allen Institute for brain science. And these are largely like neuro imaging, um, data. And we made that available, um, via, um, our open data set, um, program. So there's a wide range of things that we're doing. And what's great about it is when we do it, you democratize science and you allowed many, many more science scientists to work on these problems. They're so critical for us. >>The availability is, is incredible, but also the, the breadth and depth of what you just spoke. It's not just government, for example, you've got about 30 seconds left. I'm going to ask you to summarize some of the announcements that you think are really, really critical for federal customers to be paying attention to from reinvent 2020. >>Yeah. So, um, one of the things that these federal government customers have been coming to us on is they've had to have new ways to communicate with their customer, with the public. And so we have a product that we've had for a while called on AWS connect, and it's been used very extensively throughout government customers. And it's used in industry too. We've had a number of, um, of announcements this weekend. Jasmine made multiple announcements on enhancement, say AWS connect or additional services, everything from helping to verify that that's the right person from AWS connect ID to making sure that that customer's gets a good customer experience to connect wisdom or making sure that the managers of these call centers can manage the call centers better. And so I'm really excited that we're putting in the hands of both government and industry, a cloud based solution to make their connections to the public better. >>It's all about connections these days, but I wish we had more time, cause I know we can unpack so much more with you, but thank you for joining me on the queue today, sharing some of the insights, some of the impacts and availability that AWS is enabling the scientific and other federal communities. It's incredibly important. And we appreciate your time. Thank you, Lisa, for Brett McMillan. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cubes coverage of AWS reinvent 2020.

>> live from Washington, D. C. It's the Cube covering a ws public sector summit by Amazon Web services. >> Welcome back, everyone to the cubes Live coverage of a ws public sector Here in our nation's capital Washington D. C. I'm your host Rebecca. Night hosting alongside of John Farrier. Always a pleasure being with you. >> So good to see you again. >> And we're joined by first time Cube guest Brett MacMillan. He is the GM ground station. Eight of us. Thanks so much for coming on >> the road to be here. Thank you. >> So why don't you start by telling our viewers a little bit about ground station? What? It is one of us. >> You're first of all really excited to be here at this conference yesterday we had our second annual Earth Science Day. Last year was really successful, and we're finding a huge amount of interest around a space and space primarily tto help save the earth. And so >> eight of >> us came out with the solution, and we made it generally available last month called Ground Station. And if you think back about 15 years ago, before the commercial cloud came out, uh, you had to do for a data center. You Hey, either had to buy the data center. You had to do a long term lease. And then >> we >> came out with the commercial cloud. And from that point forward, there was a tremendous number of innovations. That movie came out of that. I don't think any of us back then could have predicted things like Pin arrests O R. Spotify Or or that Netflix would have gone from shipping your DVDs to be in the online streaming company and all those innovations happening, we think that we're at the beginning of that stage of satellite industry. So what ground station is is It's a service that you can use like any other cloud service. Just pay for what you used on demand. You can scale up you, Khun scale down. And we think that we're in the early stages of opening up innovations in this >> industry >> and its satellite specific. So it's a satellite services of connectivity. How how's it work? What's that >> s what happened to you. You would have a you just go into the eight of us counsel on you schedule a contact. And most of these early use cases there for our low earth orbit. Satellites are medium earth orbit satellites, and we have deployed these satellite antennas. And what's really important about this is we put them right next to our data centers or availability zones. So now you're getting the entire power of the cloud. And so what happens is you would schedule contact and either up Linker downlink your data during that contact period. And we just charge per per minute. And >> so it's like the two was servers and still has three. With storage and thie used. Case wasn't solved. The provisioning problem. So you guys are doing it for up Lincoln down Lincoln to satellite usage and data over satellite. Pretty >> direct. Correct. And so And the other thing that's really nice about it is just like the cloud would announce enable people to go global and minutes ground station allowed you to go global also. So, traditionally, what would happen if you would buy a satellite antenna or you'd Lisa Sal? I'd intended somewhere in the world and you're only catching so many passes of those satellites. We are deploying these at our data centers through out the world, and so you're able to at a very low cost. Now touch these passes of the sound lights. >> You know, Brett, Rebekah and I were talking on the intro around the role of technology. How it's causing a lot of change. You mentioned that window of 10 years where, before YouTube, after YouTube, all these new services came on. Think about it. Those didn't exist around before. Two thousand four time frame. Roughly two thousand 10 2 4 2 4 to 5. Then the mobile revolution hit. Similar wave is coming into government and seeing it. Amazon Webster Public Sector Summit is our fourth year. It gets bigger. The inclusion of space is a tell sign of commercialization of some of the tech coming in infiltrating process, change within government and use cases. So I would agree with you that that's relevant. >> Yeah, And >> next level is what? What was that window? What's gonna happen that 10 year? >> You don't change? It is hard to predict, but we know from our past experience on what we've done in the cloud. We know that when you remove the undifferentiated heavy lifting like buying servers are doing networks and things like that. It frees people up to do innovations on DH And when you look at what's happening in the satellite industry, virtually every industry, every person can benefit from a better understanding of this earth and from satellite imagery and satellite sensing. And so, if you start moving forward with that and you ask what can happen, we've got governments throughout the world that are very concerned about deforestation. And so, for example, today they find out 54 station after the trees are gone. And what if you could instead, for a very low cost, download pictures of satellite images and get it in more of a really time type basis? Or get it in that same hour that, uh, sound like took the picture. Now what you could do is catch the deforestation when the boulders air show up, not after the trees went down, so >> get in front of it. Used the data is a data business just about other use cases, because again, early adopters are easily the developers that are hungry for the resource. We saw that with cloud to industry, I mentioned now those service thousands and thousands of new services a year from a baby s jazz. He loves to talk about that at reinvent, and it's pretty impressive. But the early days was developers. They were the ones who have the value. They were thirsty for the resource. What are the sum of that resource? Is what's the low hanging fruit coming in for ground station that you could share that tell sign for >> where it's going? Interest not only for the his new developers in these new things, but large, established sound like companies are very interested in that, because when I was talking about earlier, you can cover areas with our service in ways that were very expensive to do. Like until you Ground Station would have been a little hard for us to roll out, had we not first on eight of us if you didn't first have things like Ace two and three and your ways of of storing your data or our petabytes scale worldwide network. And so when you look at that, you're able to get multiple different organizations doing some really cool things. We're in partnership with Cal Poly, Cal Poly and Cal Poly's been in the space industry for a long time. Back in 1999 they were one of the inventors of original Cube sat, and today what they're doing is they have this STDs, Sally Data Solutions service on. It's an initiative that they're doing and they did a hackathon. And when you look at all the areas that could benefit from from space and satellite tourists, all kinds of things pop up. So, for example, if your cattle rancher and you have a very large area, sometimes cat cat will get stuck in an area like a canyon or something. You don't find out about it. It's too. It's too late. So Cal Poly did this hackathon on DH. What they came up with is, it's very inexpensive now to put a I ot device on it on the cows on with the ground station. You can now download that information you can communicate to a satellite, and now we can find out how where those cows are and get them if they're in a dangerous situation. I >> think the eye OT impact is going to be huge. Rebecca, think about what we talked about around Coyote. I ot is the edge of the network, but there's no networks, not flat. It's in space. The earth is round right, so You know, it's kind of like a Christopher Columbus moment where if you have the data, all you need power and connectivity. So battery power is getting stronger every day. Long life batteries. But the connectivity with ground station literally makes a new eye ot surface area of the earth. Absolutely. I mean, that's pretty groundbreaking. >> This is a really exciting time to be in the space industry. A couple things are driving it. One is that the capabilities that were able to put up in space for the same amount of weight and the same amount of payload is increasing dramatically. The only thing that's happening is that the cost for lift the cost to put satellites and and orbit is dropping dramatically. And so what's happening with those two things is were able to get a lot more organisations putting satellites up there. And what's turning out is that there's a tremendous number of images and sensing capabilities. It's coming down actually more than the humans are able to analyze. And that's where the cloud comes in is that you take and you download this information and then you start using things like machine learning and artificial intelligence and you can see anomalies and point them out to the humans and say, for example, these balls are just showed up. Maybe we should go take a look at that. >> You know, imagery has always been a hot satellite thing. You see Google Earth map three D mapping is getting better. How is that playing into it? Is that a use case for you guys? I mean, you talk about the impact. Is that something we all relate to >> you and I would submit that we are in the early stages of that. It's amazing what we can do with their damaging today. And everybody on their phones get Google maps and all the other things that are out there. But we're in early stages of what we could do with that. So some areas that we're looking at very closely. So, for example, during the California wildfires last year, NASA worked on something to help out the people on the ground. You know, with ground station, what you'll be able to do is do more downloads and get more information than a more real time basis, and you'll actually be able to look at this and say the wildfires are happening in these areas and help the citizens with escape routes and help them understand things that were actually hard to determine from the ground. And so we're looking at this for natural disasters as well as just Data Day solutions. >> It's such an exciting time, and you and your pointing at so many different use cases that have a lot of potential to really be game changers. What keeps you up at night about this, though? I mean, I think that they're as we know, there's a lot of unintended consequences that comes with these new technologies and particularly explosion of these new technologies. What are what are your worries? What what is the future perils that you see? >> So So we definitely are working with these agencies of the federal government and commercial things on making sure that you can sit. You're the data. But again, that was one of the benefits of starting with a ws. We started with security being a primary of part of what we did. And so when when you have ground station, you do a satellite uplink for downlink, and then you immediately tell it where in the world you want the data to be stored. So, for example, we could download, Let's say, in another part of the world, and then you can bring it back to the nine states and store it in your we call a virtual private cloud. It's a way for our customers to be able to control their environment securely. And so we spent a lot of time explain to people how they could do that and how they could do it securely. And so, uh, well, it doesn't keep me awake at night, But we spend a tremendous amount of time working with these organisations, making sure that they are using best practices when they're using our solution. Right? >> Talk about the challenges you mentioned, storing the securely role of policy. We're living in a world now where the confluence of policy science tech people are all kind of exploding and studio innovation but also meet challenges. What are some of the things that you guys are doing? Obeys the bar improving? I mean, I'll say there's early days, so you're seeing areas to improve. What if some of the areas that you're improving on that are being worked on now on impact >> So you mentioned policy side of it. What I'd like Teo say is any time there's a new technology that comes out way. Have to do some catching up from, You know, the policy, the regulator point in front of you right now because the satellite industry is moving so fast. Um, there's a scale issues on. So governments throughout the world are looking at the number of satellites they're going up in, the number of communications are happening, and they're working with that scale on Andi. I I'm very proud to say that they're reacting. They were acting fairly quickly on DH. That's one of the areas that I think we're going to see more on is as this industry evolves, having things like having antennas insert and antennas and satellite certified quickly is one of the things that we need to talk. >> Some base infrastructure challenges mean Consider space kind of infrastructure. At this point, it plenty of room up there currently, but can envision a day with satellites, zillion satellites up there at some point. But that gets set up first. You're saying the posture. The government is pro innovation in this area. >> Oh, you're wasting a lot of interest in that way. We launched ground station governments both here in this country as well as throughout the world, very interested in this on DH. They see the potential on being able to make the satellite's on satellite imagery and detection available. And it's not just for those largest organizations like the governments. But it's also when you commercialize this and what we've made it so that small, medium sized businesses now, Khun, get into this business and do innovative things. >> Question. I want to ask. You know, we're tight on time, Rebecca, but we'll get this out. In your opinion. What? What do you think the modernization of public policy governments means? Because the paint on your definition, what modernization is This seems to be the focus of this conference here, a ws re public sector summit. This is the conversation we're having in other agencies. They want to modernize. >> What does that mean to you? It takes on many things. Many perspectives. What? What I find a lot is modernizations is making helping your workers be more productive. And so we do this with a number of different ways. So when you look at ground station. Really? Benefit of it isn't. Can I get the image? Can I get the data? But how can I do something with it? And so when you start applying machine learning artificial intelligence now you can put a point toe anomalies that are happening. And now you can have the people really focus on the anomalies and not look at a lot of pictures. They're exactly the same. So when you look at a modernization, I think it's some economists with How do we make the workforce that's in place more productive >> and find those missing cows? It's Fred McMillan. Thank you so much for coming on the Q. Thank >> you. It was a pleasure. We've >> got a lot of great mark. We got many more gas. Got Teresa Carlson. Jay Carney? >> Yeah. Yeah. General Keith Alexander, About how date is being used in the military. We got ground station connectivity. I really think this is a great opportunity for io. T wait to see how it progresses. >> Excellent. Thank you. >> Becca. Knight for John Furrier. Stay tuned to the Cube.

>> We'll come back here ready. Geoffrey here with the Cube were at San Francisco International Airport, Gate fifty four d. If you want to stop by for getting ready to go on a little Alaska flight because it's an exciting day, they took advantage of the opportunity after the Virgin merger to kind of rebrand everything. We look at the technology of everything from the seats to the WiFi, everything in between. We're excited at the guy who's responsible for everything. He's Brett Catlin, the managing director >> of alliances and product. Bret, great to see you. >> Thanks for having my job. I really appreciate it. >> So first off, congratulations. You're a whole lot of work. Went into this day absolutely the >> team effort over the past few years, and we're just thrilled to see it all come together to deliver a better experience for our guests. >> So it's pretty interesting because I think you know, you guys are obviously thinking about this. I don't know if people are is aware that when you think of the total experience, the engagement that I have, when I'm taking a flight from San Francisco to Seattle, it's a lot more than just the air miles with my butt in a seat and moving down down the road. You guys really think that >> whole experience absolutely. Look at the entire journey from when you arrive at the airport to your lounge experience. When you walk on board, what's the Jet Jeffords feel like? The lighting, the music. When you enter the aircraft, the configuration, the seats, comfort and then ultimately, a big thing crosses food and beverage. So making sure that it's healthy local speaks to the West Coast values that we're so proud of. >> And how do you how do you kind of get input from the customers >> is toe, You know, these are things that you guys spend a lot of time on, and there are a lot of little things that add up to a total experience. How where customers are, kind of are they get in, Or do they suddenly like, Wow, you know, I feel a little bit more arrested because of a particular type of sound or a particular type of configuration on the seat. >> How do you get feedback >> on all these different things? >> Absolutely great questions on the front end. We obviously quite a bit of guest research, both kind of online quantitative studies, but then also in person with focus groups. Now that we have a lot of product and market, our focus is kind of elevating and improving. What we have and how we get that feedback is every guest receives a survey after every flight. And so we look. >> Every guest receives a survey after every flight. >> Exactly. And so we have hundreds of thousands of response as every year, which allows us to make small tweaks around the margin, but also more material changes. >> That's pretty wild. So I'm just curious some of the more crazy things that have come come through that either good things that you could actually execute on that maybe never thought about or just just funny things to make put a smile on your face and tell you it really is a mixture >> of to tell you the truth, and a lot of things are items that we want action. So certain health restrictions where maybe we didn't realize a certain kind of food wasn't hitting the mark with a wide section of our guests. We could make tweets there, but also, when you think about maybe our in flight entertainment. Do we have the right content? Are the movies that people watch resonating? So we look at all that data to say, Well, look, this kind of movie. It does really well in flight. So people love thrillers when you think about movies and flight, for whatever reason. So we try and put more thrillers onboard. >> I thought they go, Mort. The romantic comedies in the airplane. I don't know that. What a swell. But the suspense people love, right? Right. And it really goes to this bigger question of this total experience. An engagement with the airline. So I wonder you can speak to about technology in the role of technology and how you guys are using that across all these various product. Absolutely. So being >> a West Coast airline technologies critically important for us, one of the things we're focused on is offering high spider highspeed WiFi and offer a mainline aircraft. We have about a dozen done right now, by the end of twenty nineteen will have one hundred twenty five. And so the key there is you'll be all the stream entertainment on board our aircraft. Your outlook for your core, Primo will be zippy, The real basics. When you're flying coast to coast or to Hawaii, You're super excited about that. Then we look at a couple other things as well. Mobile order and one great example. So before you board your flight, you can reserve your meal in first class with the main cabin to make sure you get exactly what you want. So there's some basics like that. Then we're also looking longer term. How do we improve the technology experience in our lounge is to maybe being ableto order a barista beverage while you're still approaching the AARP point. >> Pretty thing. And a lot of that's got to be through your mobile app, right? Absolutely. Has this very significant point of contact between you and your customers? >> That's exactly right. >> Excellent. Well, thanks for taking a few minutes of your time. Way. Looked forward to drop it on the plane and get to experience some of this. And again, congratulations on the Integrative X when it's my pleasure. Thank you, Jeffrey. Really appreciate it. All right. >> He's Brad. I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube. Where at San Francisco International Gave fifty four b. Thanks for watching. We'll catch you next time.

>> Announcer: Live from Berlin, Germany, it's theCUBE! Covering NetApp Insight 2017. Brought to you by NetApp. (rippling music) Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of NetApp Insight. I'm Rebecca Knight, your host, along with my cohost Peter Burris. We are joined by Brett Roscoe. He is the Vice President for Solutions and Service Marketing at NetApp, and Laura Dubois, who is a Group Vice President at IDC. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Yeah, thanks for having us. Thank you for having us. So, NetApp and IDC partner together and worked on this big research project, as you were calling it, a thought leadership project, to really tease out what the companies that are thriving and being successful with their data strategies are doing, and what separates those from those that are merely just surviving. Do you want to just lay the scene for our viewers and explain why you embarked on this? Well, you know, it's interesting. NetApp has embarked on its own journey, right, its own transformation. If you look at where the company's been really over the past few years in terms of becoming a traditional storage company to a truly software, cloud-focused, data-focused company, right? And that means a whole different set of capabilities that we provide to our customers. It's a different, our customers are looking at data in a different way. So what we did was look at that and say we know that we're going through a transformation, so we know our customers are going through a journey themselves. And whatever their business model is, it's being disrupted by this digital economy. And we wanted a way to work with IDC and really help our customers understand what that journey might look like, where they might be on that path, and what are the tools and what are the engagement models for us to help them along that journey? So that was really the goal, was really, it's engagement with our customers, it's looking and being curious about where they are on their journey on digital, and how do they move forward in that, in doing all kinds of new things like new customer opportunities and new business and cost optimization, all that kind of stuff. So that's really what got us interested in the project to begin with. Yeah, and I would just add to that. Revenue's at risk of disruption across pretty much every industry, and what's different is the amount of revenue that's at risk within one industry to the next. And all of this revenue that's at risk, is really as a consequence of new kinds of business models, new kinds of products and services that are getting launched new ways of engaging with customers. And these are some of the things that we see thrivers doing and outperforming merely just survivors, or even just data resisters. And so we want to understand the characteristics of data thrivers, and what are they doing that's uniquely different, what are their attributes versus companies that are just surviving. So let's tease that out a little bit. What are these data thrivers doing differently? What are some of the best practices that have emerged from this study? Well I mean, I think if you look at there's a lot of great information that came out of the study for us in terms of what they're doing. I think in a nutshell, it's really they put a focus on their data and they look at it as an asset to their business. Which means a lot of different things in terms of how is the data able to drive opportunities for them. I mean, there's so many companies now that are getting insights from their data, and they're able to push that back to their customer. I mean, NetApp is a perfect example of that. We actually do that with our customers. All the telemetry data we collect from our own systems, we provide that information back to our customers so they can help plan and optimize their own environments. So I think data is certainly, it's validated our theory, our message of where we're going with data, but I think the data focus, I mean, there's lot of other attributes, there's the focus of hiring chief data officers within the company, there's certainly lots of other attributes, Laura, that you can comment on. Yeah, I mean, we see new roles emerging around data, right, and so we see the rise of the data management office. We see the emergence of a Chief Data Officer, we see data architects, certainly data scientists, and this data role that's increasingly integrated into sort of the traditional IT organization, enterprise, architecture. And so enterprise, architecture and these data roles very, very closely aligned is one, I would say, example of a best practice in terms of the thriver organizations, is having these data champions, if you will, or data visionaries. And certainly there's a lot of things that need to be done to have a successful execution, and a data strategy as a first place, but then a successful execution around data. And there's a lot of challenges that exist around data as well. So the survey highlighted that obviously data's distributed, it's dynamic and it's diverse, it's not only in your private cloud but in the public cloud, I think it's at 34% on average of data is in a public cloud. So, how to deal with these challenges is, I think, also one of the things that you guys wanted to highlight. Yeah, and I think the other big revelation was the thrivers, one of the aspects, so not their data focus but also they're making business decisions with their data. They tend to use that data in terms of their operations and how they drive their business. They tend to look for new ways to engage with their customers through a digital or data-driven experience. Look at the number of mobile apps coming out of consumer, really B to C kind of businesses. So there's more and more digital focus, there's more and more data focus, and there's business decisions made around that data. So, I want to push you guys on this a little bit. 'Cause we've always used data in business, so that's not new. There's always been increasing amounts of data being used. So while the volume's certainly new, it's very interesting, it's by itself not that new. What is new about this? What is really new about it that's catalyzing this change right now? Have you got some insights into that? Well, I would just say if you look at some of the largest companies that are no longer here, so you've got Blockbuster, you've got Borders Books and Music, you've got RadioShack, look at what Amazon has done to the retail industry. You look at what Uber is doing to the transportation industry. Look at every single industry, there's disruption. And there's the success of this new innovative company, and I think that's why now. Yes, data has always been an important attribute of any kind of business operation. As more data gets digital, combine that with innovation and APIs that allow you to, and the public cloud, allow you to use that as a launch pad for innovation. I think those are some of the things about why now. I mean, that would be my take, I don't know-- Yeah, I think there's a couple things. Number one, I think yes, businesses have been storing data for years and using data for years, but what you're seeing is new ways to use the data. There's analytics now, it is so easy to run analytics compared to what it was just years ago, that you can now use data that you've been storing for years and run historical patterns on that, and figure out trends and new ways to do business. I think the other piece that is very interesting is the machine learning, the artificial intelligence, right? So much of the industry now, I mean, look at the automotive industry. They are collecting more information than I bet they ever thought they would, because the autonomous driving effort, all of that, is all about collecting information, doing analytics on information, and creating AI capabilities within their products. So there's a whole new business that's all new, there's whole new revenue streams that are coming up as a result of leveraging insights from data. So let me run something by ya, 'cause I was looking for something different. It used to be that the data we were working was what I call stylized data. You can't go out here in Berlin and wander the streets and find Accounting. It doesn't exist, it's human-made, it's contrived. HR is contrived. We have historically built these systems based on transactions, highly stylized types of data. There's only so much you can do with it. But because of technology, mobile, IOT, others, we now are utilizing real world data. So we're collecting an entirely new class of data that has a dramatic impact in how we think about business and operations. Does that comport with what the study said, that study respondents focusing on new types of data as opposed to just traditional sources of data? We certainly looked at correlations of what data thrivers are doing by different types of data. I would say, in terms of the new types of data that are emerging, you've got time series data, stream data, that's increasingly important. You've got machine-generated data from sensors. And I would say that one thing that the thrivers do better than merely just survivors, is have processes and procedures in place to action the data. To collect it and analyze it, as Brett pointed out, is accessible, and it's easy. But what's not easy to is to action results out of that data to drive change and business processes, to drive change in how things are brought to market, for example. So, those are things that data thrivers are doing that maybe data survivors aren't. I don't know if you have anything to add to that. Yeah, no, I think that's exactly right. I think, yes, traditional data, but it's interesting because even those traditional data sets that have been sitting there for years have untapped value. >> Peter: Wikibon knew types of data. That's right. But we've also been doing data warehousing, analytics for a long time. So it seems as though, I would guess, that the companies that are leading, many that you mentioned, are capturing data differently, they're using analytics and turning data into value differently, and then they are taking action based on that data differently. And I'm wondering if across the continuum that you guys have identified, of thrivers all the way down to survivors, and you mentioned one other, data-- >> Laura: resisters. resisters, and there was, anyways. So there's some continuum of data companies. Do they fall into that pattern, where I'm good at capturing data, I'm good at generating analytics, but I'm not good at taking action on it? Is that what a data resister is? So a data resister is sort of the one extreme. Companies that don't have well-aligned processes where they're doing digital transformation on a very ad hoc basis, it's not repeatable. They're somewhat resistant to change. They're really not embracing that there's disruption going on that data can be a source of enablement to do the disrupting, not being disrupted. So they're kind of resisting those fundamental constructs, I would say. They typically tend to be very siloed. Their IT's in a very siloed architecture where they're not looking for ways to take advantage of new opportunities across the data they're generating, or the data they're collecting, rather. So that would be they're either not as good at creating business value out of the data they have access to. Yes, that's right, that's right. And then I think the whole thing with thrivers is that they are purposeful. They set a high level objective, a business-level objective that says we're going to leverage data and we're going to use digital to help drive our business forward. We are going to look to disrupt our own business before somebody disrupts it for us. So how do you help those data resistors? What's your message to them, particularly if they may not even operate with the belief that data is this asset? I mean, that's the whole premise of the study. I think the data that comes out, like you know, hey data thrivers, you're two times more likely to draw two times more profitability to there's lots of great statistics that we pulled out of this to say thrivers have a lot more going for them. There is a direct corelation that says if you are taking a high business value of your data, and high business value of the digital transformation that you are going to be more profitable, you're going to generate more revenue, and you're going to be more relevant in the next 10 to 20 years. And that's what we want to use that, to say okay where are you on this journey? We're actually giving them tools to measure themselves by taking assessments. They can take an assessment of their own situation and say okay, we are a survivor Okay, how do we move closer to being a thriver? And that's where NetApp would love to come in and engage and say let us show you best practices, let us show you tools and capabilities that we can bring to bear to your environment to help you go a little bit further on that journey, or help you on a path that's going to lead you to a data thriver. Yeah, that's right, I agree with that. (laughs) What is the thing that keeps you up at night for the data resister, though, in the sense of someone who is not, does not have, maybe not even capturing and storing the data but really has no strategy to take whatever insights the data might be giving them to create value? I don't know, that's a hard question. I don't know, what keeps you up at night? Well, I think if I were looking at a data resister, I think the stats, the data's against them. I mean, right? If you look at a Fortune 500 company in the 1950s, their average lifespan was something like 40 years. And by the year 2020, the average lifespan of an S&P 500 company is going to be seven years, and that's because of disruption. Now, historically that may have been industrial disruption, but now it's digital disruption, and that right there is, if you're feeling like you're just a survivor, that ought to keep a survivor up at night. If I can ask too. It's, for example, one of the reasons why so many executives say you have to hire millennials, because there's this presumption that millennials have a more natural affinity with data, than older people like me. Now, there's not necessarily a lot of stats that definitely prove that, but I think that's one of the, the misperceptions, or one of the perceptions, that I have to get more young people in because they'll be more likely to help me move forward in an empirical style of management than some older people who are used to a very, very different type of management practice. But still there are a lot of things that companies, I would presume, would need to be able to do to move from one who's resisting these kinds of changes to actually taking advantage of it. Can I ask one more question? Is it that, did the research discover that data is the cause of some of these, or just is correlated with success? In other words, you take a company like Amazon, who did not have to build stores like traditional retailers, didn't have to carry that financial burden, didn't have to worry so much about those things, so that may be starting to change, interestingly enough. Is that, so they found a way to use data to alter that business, but they also didn't have to deal with the financial structure of a lot of the companies they were competing with. They were able to say our business is data, whereas others had said our business is serving the customer with these places in place. So, which is it? Do you think it's a combination of cause and effect, or is it just that it's correlated? Hmm. I would say it's probably both. We do see a correlation, but I would say the study included companies whose business was data, as well as companies that were across a variety of industries where they're just leveraging data in new ways. I would say there's probably some aspects of both of that, but that wasn't like a central tenent of the study per se, but maybe that will be phase two. Maybe we'll mine the data and try and find some insights there. Yeah, there's a lot more information that we can glean from this data. We think this'll be an ongoing effort for us to kind of be a thought leader in this area. I mean, the data proved that there was 11% of those 800 respondents that are thrivers, which means most people are not in that place yet. So I think it's going to be a journey for everyone. Yes, I agree that some companies may have some laws of physics or some previous disruptions like brick and mortar versus online retail, but it doesn't mean there's not ways that traditional companies can't use technology. I mean, you look at, in the white paper, we used examples like General Electric and John Deere. These are very traditional companies that are using technology to collect data to provide insights into how customers are using their products. So that's kind of the thought leadership that any company has to have, is how do I leverage digital capabilities, online capabilities, to my advantage and keep being disruptive in the digital age? I think that's kind of the message that we want them to hear. Right, and I would just add to that. It's not only their data, but it's third-party data. So it's enriching their data, say in the case of Starbucks. So Starbucks is a company that certainly has many physical assets. They're taking their customer data, they're taking partner data, whether that be music data, or content from the New York Times, and they're combining that all to provide a customer experience on their mobile app that gives them an experience on the digital platform that they might have experienced in the physical store. So when they go to order their coffee in their mobile pay app, they don't have to wait in line for their coffee, it's already paid for and ready when they go to pick it up. But while they're in their app, they can listen to music or they can read the New York Times. So there's a company that is using their own data plus third party data to really provide a more enriched experience for their company, and that's a traditional, physical company. And they're learning about their customers through that process too. Exactly, exactly, right. Are there any industries that you think are struggling more with this than others? Or is it really a company-specific thing? Well, the research shows that companies in ever industry are facing disruption, and the research shows that companies in every industry are reacting to that disruption. There are some industries that tend to have, obviously by industry they might have more thrivers or more resisters, but nothing I can per se call out by industry. I think retail is the one that you can point to and say there's an industry that's really struggling to really keep up with the disruption that the large, people like Amazon and others have really leveraged digital well advanced of them, well in advance of their thought process. So I think the white paper actually breaks down the data by industry, so you can kind of look at that, I think that will provide some details. But I think every, there is no industry immune, we'll just put it that way. And the whole concept of industry is undergoing change as well. That's true, that is true, everything's been disrupted. Great, well, Brett and Laura thank you so much for coming on our show. We had a great conversation. Thank you. Enjoy your time. You're watching theCUBE, we'll have more from NetApp Insight after this. (rippling music)

>> Voiceover: Live from Las Vegas it's theCUBE. Covering NetApp Insight 2017. Brought to you by NetApp. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. Live in Las Vegas, it's theCUBE's exclusive coverage of NetApp Insight 2017. I'm John Furrier, the cohost of theCUBE; co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media here with Keith Downson, my cohost for the day. CTO Advisor. Our next guest is Brett Roscoe; vice president of process solutions marketing at NetApp; and Madge Miller, who's the director of Worldwide Public Relations PR. So, how're you guys feeling? The end of the day. A lot of action. >> A lot of stuff going on. >> I thought that was why they reinvent; all these announcements. Almost we needed another keynote. >> We do. We definitely do. A lot of really great announcements happening this week, and a lot of really big excitement in the halls about what is happening with our announcements. And you know Microsoft, HCL. >> John: How many did you have, roughly? >> We had three but we wrapped them into our >> John: Oh really? >> Only three, three big ones >> John: Three big ones? >> Three press releases, right? >> Yeah three big ones >> We had multiple functions, multiple products in each one. >> I mean it felt like it was 60 announcements >> Yeah, yeah it did >> But you packaged them up into three >> Yes, to map to our three IT imperatives and to map back to the data visionary transformation that NetApp has been undergoing this past year. >> John: So you've been busy? >> Very busy. >> Herding the cats internally putting it all into blocks so three transformation zones are: 1. Data center, traditional data center modernization and extension. Next generation data center, and then power of cloud. >> Brett: Yeah, harnessing the power of cloud, absolutely. >> Harnessing the power of the cloud. Which is on everyone's mind. As a portfolio, not a product any more, because in the old days you had the product, now it's a portfolio the data fabric is really kicking new territory now. How do you put that together when you take it to the market? Because you know representative notations are great but customers are different; you can't just put one customer in a box and say there are ten other customers like that because they might have a mix of hybrid cloud, a little bit of on-prem. >> Yeah well if you hear, I'm sure you've heard, Data Fabric that is our, that's how we talk about connecting the hybrid cloud so that spans really all three of those so whether you're in a modernized next gen data center or a hard sparrow cloud the data fabric kind of spans all of those and it creates a unique story for NetApp about how we break down boundaries between traditional on-prem and cloud-based environments. So that really spans a portfolio right but then when you get into these different solutions even though there might be something around modernize we still talk about how you're going to harness the power of the cloud within that modernized capability. So all our announcements this week, it's really cool to see that hybrid cloud capability coming through all of that. It's one of the key investments in our product roadmap and you're seeing that come as we new capabilities. >> OK Jean did a great job on the marketing but I get excited by Sheila FitzPatrick because she's driving the passion around privacy which is not so much security but it's data security, data privacy, data as tech, data for developers. You've got governance going on, you got privacy; GDPR going on in Europe. So you guys are in a lot of touch-points you've got a lot of irons in the fire relative to the market opportunities outside the core base. >> Brett: Right. >> What's the plan, because everyone's like "What's my reference implementation, how do I use NetApp?" >> Well we started using use case terminology. We have nine different use cases that we use. So that's really about the issue or the problem or the project the customer's working on right so if they're trying to build, if they're trying to accelerate a traditional application or if they're trying to harness new modern data services from the cloud. Or if they're trying to build DevOps environments. So we use that buyer journey to come in and talk to the customer and say "This is what we think you're trying to do. Here's the unique capabilities with our portfolio that we can bring to that solution." So we really try to make the product the last part and we really talk about the capabilities across the portfolio; how they address and differentiate us into each of those use case environments. So that's really the way we try to simplify it so we're not talking about all these different products, we're talking about NetApp's capabilities. >> So I was pretty impressed with the keynote yesterday we got an hour into the keynote without even mentioning a product. However this conference has typically, has traditionally been a storage conference. So how has the average attendee as you've walked the floor and as you've talked to the customers and attendees. How have they been receptive of that message of data first and now today we get to the meat of actual speeds and fees? >> I think really the thing about the conversation that NetApp is having now and just like you saw on stage at the keynote is that we are allowing people to elevate their role within their organization. So everyone is coming to the IT department and saying you know "How do I create these new services, how do I monetize data?" and now we're giving our folks that we've worked with traditionally for years the opportunity to step in that conversation and be experts and really come and be the hero in that conversation just like you saw on stage. So they can take their knowledge of those speeds and fees and they can come in and interpret them for new services new revenue models for data. >> And you guys did a great job with the A-team you had a bunch of them on here in theCUBE. They had the greatest analysts come in because they're on the front lines. They're a mix of tech geeks and also partners. >> Yeah they're great advocates right? And I also spent the whole day meeting with our analyst community as they come away to get their impressions and they were very positive, very excited. They've kind of been on this journey with us and watched us transform as we go through our own digital transformation about becoming a data-focused company. Around meeting customer needs and how they extract value and create new customer touchpoints and optimize operations and look for new innovative ways to use data. >> Alright so where is the focus in the solutions and also the comms. is important to because as you have comms. and solutions. You're like on the landscape looking at all the community action going on. You've also got to look at what's going on in the narrative of the industry; for thought leadership. You got to come in and pick and choose your resources for instance the Cloud Native Compute Foundation is one of the hottest things on the planet for Cloud. So that's more open source but there's a lot of influencers in there; a lot of A-tea potential. You've got to make some choices So as you go out to the market how do you look at the landscape because there's almost too much to do for you guys. If you hit every single piece, where is the focus? >> Yeah, I think that's really where our core message of being the data authority in the hybrid cloud world comes in and looking back at those three IT imperatives that we talked about. Really our focus is on building out those core strengths and that's really what you saw from our announcements at the show, is building up to those core strengths that we have and continuing to build them out. >> About customer and community sectors. Open source obviously is still growing like crazy. >> Open source is important for us. Looking at hyperscalers is very important for us looking at cloud native partners as we go forward you know which is part of what our announcement with Microsoft was about today is moving more into that cloud native conversation as NetApp with our core services and things that we're really known for and made us who we are today. >> Brett you've got to look at the cloud thing with Microsoft, I mean now not only are they a great channel for you guys >> Brett: Yeah. >> And you guys have got to step up to the plate and deliver some good value because you know they're finicky, they have sales guys out on the streets. Got to be reliable to be rock solid so pressure's on you but this opens up a lot of doors for NetApp doesn't it? >> Well yeah I think it's a fantastic opportunity for us right? It's an honor that Microsoft chose us as a partner in this space but at the same time I do believe that we are the best, we have the best capability in this space right? A true scalable enterprise capability that we bring to others I think is going to be right. It's going to hit the heart of the market for them and really provide a high quality, high enterprise scale kind of service. So I think, I'm super excited that this partnership came together; I think it makes total sense you look at the number one hyperscaler, the number one data vendor out there and you say they've come together to address customer needs. >> Alright here's the trick question at the end of the day to see what I can get out of you Dave Alanti and I.. >> All: (laughter) >> You know we're good at trick questions. >> OK this is good. >> We always fall for them, we're totally good at that. >> I shouldn't have said that on theCUBE. This is more of a philosophical question because David Alanti always thought like, "Never fight fashion." Fashion is key in success because you can ride the wave and be fashionable. So the question is what is the fashion in the market that you see? Because you guys now are at a level in my opinion where you can walk in the front door of all the thought leader theaters and say "Hey cloud native guys, we've got a great story for you." "Hey governance, we've got a great story there." So you have now a whole new level of territory that you can take down and have conversations in. So that comes to the fashion question. What's fashionable that you guys are focused on? If that's the fashion trend then what is NetApp wearing? >> Which designer, what designer? >> Are they wearing designer cloud native? Are they wearing..? >> Not my best analogy; you didn't hit my strong point. You could have used a sports analogy or something like that. >> If you were a baseball team? >> No, no, no she's all ready. >> No go ahead you do fashion. >> You do yours Brett no no no do a sports analogy. >> Go ahead, go ahead. >> West Coast offense of course. >> Yes we could totally do a fashion analogy I think that what you saw us wearing today around our data fabric momentum, around our cloud announcements, even around the digital customer experience with Elio and Active IQ. The way we're using our partnership with Watson, IBM Watson. Those are the types of things that you'll see from us in the future. The customer experience message really is around us using our own systems and amplifying those in a way that we hope our customers will in the future so you'll see a lot more of those types of things from us into, you know, into the next fashion season. >> And the old expression, if you've got sizzle a bit have the steak and again nice fabric you're wearing. >> So, since we're talking in analogies you guys are actually building up a lot of political capital. The Microsoft announcement gives you, from an optics perspective you can, that gets you into the door. "Hold on, this NFS thing is powered by NetApp?" Opens up a set of conversations with a completely different set of customers. How do you spend that capital next? What's the next level of conversations with CIOs, CDOs, CMOs? >> John: CXOs, yeah. >> Well you know we're in those conversations today right. So we've had on-tap cloud and several even pure SaaS-based products for a while and they're making great traction, there's huge growth in those new products. Obviously with the Microsoft partnership it allows us to actually reach, I'm excited about hitting new buyers that may have not seen NetApp as a vendor that that would leverage, maybe just through association or maybe their persona or the job they do wouldn't put NetApp right in front of them so now we have a new audience, right? We have a whole new audience that we can show our value. You know we, I think will have ways to work with Microsoft to bring additional capabilities into that service that they're going to provide, and how do we work with them to do that and make sure that customers see value, see additional future capabilities that they can leverage from us, it's a tremendous opportunity. It's now, it's our market, to go this is our opportunity to go show value to them. This is a great opportunity and we need to take advantage of it, and it ours to dip into. >> You guys are going to take more territory, great stuff. We're going to give you guys the final word in the segment. but for the folks who couldn't make it, they're watching this segment. Share with them what were the key things here happening that they should know about and take away from NetApp Insight? What are the key things? >> Brett, you want to take this one? >> You start and I'll finish. >> OK, we'll tag team this one. I think the big thing obviously is the Microsoft announcement. It's us moving more into that cloud native territory. That's a really big one. Also the digital customer experience the Elio and Active IQ for customer support. I think those are very big too showing us using our own capabilities for our customers as a company. >> OK, look I think you said it earlier; portfolio announce. We continue to come with multiple, with several new capabilities across the portfolio, right? And I think if you look at our focus which is hey we're building more software capability, we are building more hybrid, more capabilities in the cloud. More capabilities in hybrid; enforcing that data fabric message. I tell you, I know I'm biased, but nobody does it better. Nobody can come in and provide the position that NetApp has to help customers through this transformation leveraging cloud, leveraging new technologies, new microservices into their architecture in a way that we do it that is seamless and easy. >> And the cloud orchestrator is just one example of that's multi-cloud. >> Absolutely. >> You've got to shift to be first to market with true multi-cloud right out of the gate so congratulations and sorry to hear about all the tragedy that happened around your event you guys handled it with class and respect, thank you. >> Yeah it was definitely a tough situation I thought the entire leadership team did a fantastic job of working through that. >> Props to the NetApp leadership and the whole team. It's theCUBE here live in Las Vegas, the Mandalay Bay for the NetApp insight 2017. We'll be back with more after this short break. (technology music) >> Narator: Calling all barrier-breakers, status quo

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube. Covering VM World 2017. Brought to you by vmware, and its ecosystem partner. (electronic music) >> And we're back, this is SiliconANGLE Media's production of the Cube. I'm here with Keith Townsend, I'm Stu Miniman. Keith, I don't know about you, but one of the things that really excites me when I get to come to events like this is talking to the users, talking about the practitioners, what they're using, how they're using it. And so I'm really happy to welcome to the program, first-time guest Brett Ruth who's the server, storage, and virtualization supervisor at BKD. Brett, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you for having me. >> Alright so BKD. I know you're big in your field, but there might be some people out there that aren't familiar with your organization. Maybe just give us the thumbnail of the company, how long you been there, and your role there. >> Sure, BKD is the number 12 accounting firm in the United States, 36 offices, net revenue 564 million. Tax audit, corporate finance, wealth advisors, technology services, that's BKD in a nutshell. >> Alright, and your role in the organization? >> My role is kind of the server supervisor. I have a team of seven assist admins who report to me. We take care of anything on the Windows server to Lennox server, to our Nutanix environment, our Vmware environment, our IceLAN storage environment, and all the applications that live on those. >> Alright, so Brett, one of the things I'm sure you'll find, your stuff doesn't change, you don't acquisitions to integrate, you don't have new technology being thrown at you all the time. If sure every year they just say how much more budget and how many more people do you want. >> Exactly >> So bring us in the reality. What's your world like? What are some of the big challenges? I'd say first if you can from just kind of the industry standpoint, and how does that impact what you're doing? >> Sure, so BKD is a growth firm so we look at business acquisitions when we can. We look at those, we actually completed one not that long ago in Chicago. We expanded there. So each one's always different, you know different technology. Some of those acquisitions are a couple servers, some of them are completely cloud-based, some of them are mixed in between. So having a platform where we settle on with Nutanix has kind of helped be able to make those integrations a little bit easier. But no, every year budget cycle comes around, and what's the initiative the firm wants to do. And every year it's different. It's fun, you know it's challenging to have different and new things we have to tackle every year. >> So when choosing these platforms, one, quick question around the organization, a bunch of knowledge workers. How many, what's the head count? >> Brett: Around 26,000. >> 26,000. So you guys and your IT organization, you work for the bean counters of bean counters. (laughing) So they understand ROI, TCO. When it comes to selecting these technologies, how much pressure are you under to do less for more, and prove that you're doing, I'm sorry, do more with less, and prove that you're doing more or less? >> Sure, and that comes up during the budget cycles. I mean there is a large amount of time that is spent of what's next year's initiatives? What does that server landscape look like? You know, does there a new product that comes out that requires a head count increase or not? Or is it a new application we need to stand up? And every year that comes around, and the questions come. Well, maybe the firm didn't have a good year, maybe the firm had a better year. So we, you know, the budget gets adjusted based on that. But more times than not, the firm recognizes that putting money into IT does nothing but help the business grow. So as long as we spend it wisely, we usually can, we can get accomplished. >> Alright Brett, I want you to take us inside, you know I hate to do it, but the budgeting thing. Cause one of the promises of, you said you're using Nutanix, used to be okay this year, oh it's time for the server refresh, next year, wait, no, you don't have any server budget, you know, we're doing some storage ad ons, or things like that. You might get some budget here or there if you need it, or if there's an emergency, but you got to justify that. The promise of a pool of resources should be, well I'm consolidating a number of pools, and therefore, I should be able to be more agile, more flexible, I'm buying in smaller chunks, rather than bigger chunks. What's your experience been on kind of that purchasing from that relationship with the finance side of the business? >> Sure, so when I started BKD, I've been there about five years, it was a traditional three-tier architecture when we rolled into it. And the firm was growing at such a rate that we were running into those physical limitations of the hardware. And it's never a fun game to go ask the CIO an unbudgeted SAN purchase you know. Do that a couple of years in a row, and it gets harder and harder to ask those questions. So we finally came to a point as a company of we need to do something different. And, you know, through research and product I had, and my team all had to do to accomplish it, we landed on Nutanix, and we landed on a hybrid converge infrastructure. And what we can do is we build those quote unquote lego blocks, so now there's not a big, giant purchase of a SAN or a new set of UCS Chassis or whatever the product might be. It's a, I know this quarter I need this amount of nodes, or I know for this project I'm going to need this, and I can just build and add on when I need to. So it makes the budgeting and those unbudgeted purchases a lot more easier to take. >> So much of the messaging from day one, day two is aimed kind of at you. You're on the ground, you have to deal with not only the engineers that implement the technology, but also the executives that approve the purchases. So a lot of the messaging here has been for you. How have you received it, and what's your impression of Vmware's messaging around, take your favorite topic? >> Right, you know a lot of cloud talk's been happening here and a lot of DevOps has been talked about here, and a way to improve that. BKD has an internal IT development team, so a lot of those things I can take away here, and try and see if I can help our Dev team however I can. A lot of the messaging is just seeing where the industry is going, not just Vmware, but everyone on the solutions floor. I mean that's a lot of my time here is research and seeing what products that I know we have to complete in the next fiscal year or two, and then what products are out there that I can just buy. >> Alright, can you bring us into your application portfolio? What sits on the Nutanix platform, what doesn't? I hear you said you got a scale-out NAS platform also. You talked about some developers there. I'd love to understand how you figure out what goes where, where you are in building that out. How many nodes you have if you can share? >> The IceLAN is six nodes in each data center, the Nutanix is 26 nodes in each data center. We're probably 99.9% virtualized. The only thing I think we don't have virtualized is we still have a physical domain controller outside of both just from shear, if everything is off, I have one point I can get back into, right. But exchange, sharepoint, our sequel is all virtualized. The IceLAN is really kind of the unstructured file pool that we can put map drives, we can put blob storage from our sharepoint environment lands onto it. Flat files from our sequel land onto it. And, yeah, everything runs on our Nutanix. >> So going into that developer relationship, you know Nutanix, I've talked to these guys before about their ideal of being a cloud company. So developers, when they hear the term cloud, what's the impact of you, on your role, when you have Nutanix, a cloud company, and your developers asking for cloud? >> It's a interesting question because we try and phrase it as BKD, we now have an internal cloud, we have an enterprise cloud, you know the term private cloud. And we can provide those instant resources to DevOps when they need it depending on if they have a new set of QA boxes that need to be stood up. But you know there is some projects that we're looking at of is it AWS or is it Azure or is it Google's cloud. Are there things that make sense to go out there versus keeping 'em in house? And those come up as an as-need basis. >> So DevOps, so (laughing) When we talk about DevOps, what are the pain points that you guys, cause that's a big topic. Do I go all the way as far as Netflix and DevOps all the things that we say, or what have you guys targeted to say, okay, here's where the value add is in the enterprise? >> I think we're still, that's still of of those things that our development team's looking at. I think it really depends on the application and what the business is looking for. I mean there's been some products internally that the team's released that makes sense to stay on Prim. The next project I find out a month from now might be something that's perfect for the cloud. I think they just take that on a kind of case-by-case basis. >> Alright, Brett, you've got a portfolio of partners that you're working with here. What's on your list of to-do's for them? What are you looking for from the ecosystem to make your life easier and help? >> Always looking for more stable code releases. I think any engineer would love stable code releases. You know for the most part everybody gets that. We're always going to have issues. >> Anybody you want to call out for not giving you stable code releases? (laughing) >> I can say everybody because, I mean everyone will do that. No, I think it's continuing to improve the product, continuing to make it. It's that do more with less right? I can't have two or three dedicated people working on the virtualization environment. They have to be multi-skilled you know. My team that I have, my seven assist admins are all great, probably some of the best guys I've worked with. We all have to wear multiple hats, even sometimes maybe we don't want to. So having those products come into the environment that make it easier for them, and then just seeing how those code releases come out, that would just make our lives even better. >> Just real quick, can you say whose hardware your Nutanix is on? >> It's Supermicro, it's from Nutanix. >> It's the basic things. This morning the keynote got a big laugh talking about some of the coope-tition that goes on just between Dell, EMC, Vmware in some of their partnerships. Some of your partners get along better than others. Is that something that impacts you, something you think about at all? >> It's definitely, being a Nutanix guy coming into VM World this year has definitely been an interesting experience. It's that cohabitation that happens between the two. But at the end of the day, I still have severs to run, I have an environment to maintain for BKD, and you know, if I need something done, I know I can go to them, and they'll help work with me on it. >> So the show floor this year, Vmware just as massive as it's been all-- >> Yeah. >> Vmware is all about the ecosystem. How important is this large ecosystem to your everyday operations of you environment? >> I mean it's the never knowing what the next project that comes out, or the next scene the business wants to do, or the next acquisition comes up. Maybe there's a product that I don't have in house that needs to take care of it. And then having this many vendors that I can go and talk with over these couple days has been great because I can now go back to the team and go, man I didn't think about this, and this product would help solve that. Or two months from now something comes around, I go oh yeah I talked to these guys, and go flip through the business cards and the paper stuff we take home and call 'em up. >> I love that even as a Nutanix customer, the Vmware, the coope-tition, that you still find value in the overall-- >> Brett: Oh yeah absolutely. >> Brett, any either announcements or kind of new things coming out in the market, anything catch in your eye? You said you were bringing that back to the office. >> Forgive me but I can't remember the name. The malware kind of virus scanner that Pat was talking about yesterday. That kind of really was a, being able to use that AI to figure out at a base level what milicent code is and isn't was, it would be an awesome game changer if it works out how it looks to be. >> Absolutely, no shortage of new things to look into. Brett Ruth, BKD, really appreciate you sharing your viewpoint everything going on inside. Really appreciate you coming on. >> Thank you guys. >> Hope to catch up with you sometime in the future. For Keith Townsend, and I'm Stu Miniman, we'll be back with lots more coverage here from VM World 2017. You're watching the Cube. (electronic music)

the cube and hadoop summit 2014 is brought to you by anchor sponsor Hortonworks we do have do and headline sponsor when disco we make hadoop invincible okay welcome back and when we're here at the dupe summit live is looking valance the cube our flagship program we go out to the events expect a signal from noise i'm john per year but Jeff Rick drilling down on the topics we're here with wind disco welcome welcome Brett room Stein about senior director tell us what's going on for you guys I'll see you at big presence here so all the guys last night you guys have a great great booth so causing and the crew what's happening yeah I mean the show is going is going very well what's really interesting is we have a lot of very very technical individuals approaching us they're asking us you know some of the tougher more technical in-depth questions about how our consensus algorithm is able to do all this distributor replication which is really great because there's a little bit of disbelief and then of course we get to do the demonstration for them and then suspend disbelief if you will and and I think the the attendance has been great for our brief and okay I always get that you always we always have the geek conversations you guys are a very technical company Jeff and I always comment certainly de volada and Jeff Kelly that you know when disco doesn't has has their share pair of geeks and that dudes who know they're talking about so I'm sure you get that but now them in the business side you talk to customers I want to get into more the outcome that seems to be the show focused this year is a dupe of serious what are some of the outcomes then your customers are talking about when they get you guys in there what are their business issues what are they tore what are they working on to solve yeah I mean I think the first thing is to look at you know why they're looking at us and then and then with the particular business issues that we solve and the first thing and sort of the trend that we're starting to see is the prospects and the customers that we have are looking at us because of the data that they have and its data that matters so it's important data and that's when people start to come to is that's when they look to us as they have data that's very important to them in some cases if you saw some of the UCI stuff you see that the data is you know doing live monitoring of various you know patient activity where it's not just about about about a life and monitoring a life but potentially about saving the life and systems that go down not only can't save lives but they can potentially lose them so you have a demos you want to jump into this demo here what is this all about you know the demo that the demonstration that I'm going to do for you today is I want to show you our non-stop a new product i'm going to show you how we can basically stand up a single HDFS or a single Hadoop cluster across multiple data centers and I think that's one of the tough things that people are really having trouble getting their heads wrapped around because most people when they do multi data center Hadoop they tend to do two different clusters and then synchronize the data between the two of them the way they do that is they'll use you know flume or they'll use some form of parallel ingest they'll use technologies like dis CP to copy data between the data centers and each one of those has sort of an administrative burden on them and then some various flaws in their and their underlying architecture that don't allow them to do a really really detailed job as ensuring that all blocks are replicated properly that no mistakes are ever made and again there's the administrative burden you know somebody who always has to have eyes in the system we alleviate all those things so I think the first thing I want to start off with we had somebody come to our booth and we were talking about this consensus algorithm that we that we perform and the way we synchronize multiple name nodes across multiple geographies and and again and that sort of spirit of disbelief I said you know one of the key tenants of our application is it doesn't underlie it doesn't change the behavior of the application when you go from land scope to win scope and so I said for example if you create a file in one data center and 3,000 miles apart or 7,000 miles apart from that you were to hit the same create file operation you would expect that the right thing happens what somebody gets the file created and somebody gets file already exists even if at 7,000 miles distance they both hit this button at the exact same time I'm going to do a very quick demonstration of that for you here I'm going to put a file into HDFS the my top right-hand window is in Northern Virginia and then 3,000 miles distance from that my bottom right-hand window is in Oregon I'm going to put the etsy hosts file into a temp directory in Hadoop at the exact same time 3,000 miles distance apart and you'll see that exact behavior so I've just launched them both and again if you look at the top window the file is created if you look at the bottom window it says file already exists it's exactly what you'd expect a land scope up a landscape application and the way you'd expect it to behave so that is how we are ensure consistency and that was the question that the prospect has at that distance even the speed of light takes a little time right so what are some of the tips and tricks you can share this that enable you guys to do this well one of the things that we're doing is where our consensus algorithm is a majority quorum based algorithm it's based off of a well-known consensus algorithm called paxos we have a number of significant enhancements innovations beyond that dynamic memberships you know automatic scale and things of that nature but in this particular case every transaction that goes into our system gets a global sequence number and what we're able to do is ensure that those sequence numbers are executed in the correct order so you can't create you know you can't put a delete before a create you know everything has to happen in the order that it actually happened occurred in regardless of the UN distance between data centers so what is the biggest aha moment you get from customer you show them the demo is it is that the replication is availability what is the big big feature focus that they jump on yeah I think I think the biggest ones are basically when we start crashing nodes well we're running jobs we separate the the link between the win and maybe maybe I'll just do that for you now so let's maybe kick into the demonstration here what I have here is a single HDFS cluster it is spanning two geographic territory so it's one cluster in Northern Virginia part of it and the other part is in Oregon I'm going to drill down into the graphing application here and inside you see all of the name notes so you see I have three name nodes running in Virginia three name nodes running in Oregon and the demonstration is as follows I'm going to I'm going to run Terrigen and Terra sort so in other words i'm going to create some data in the cluster I'm then going to go to sort it into a total order and then I'm going to run Tara validate in the alternate data center and prove that all the blocks replicated from one side to the other however along the way I'm going to create some failures I am going to kill some of that active name nodes during this replication process i am going to shut down the when link between the two data centers during the replication paris's and then show you how we heal from from those kinds of conditions because our algorithm treats failure is a first class citizen so there's really no way to deal in the system if you will so let's start unplug John I'm active the local fails so let's go ahead and run the Terrigen in the terrorists or I'm going to put it in the directory called cube one so we're creating about 400 megabytes of data so a fairly small set that we're going to replicate between the two data centers now the first thing that you see over here on the right-hand side is that all of these name nodes kind of sprung to life that is because in an active active configuration with multiple name nodes clients actually load balance their requests across all of them also it's a synchronous namespace so any change that I make to one immediately Curzon immediately occurs on all of them the next thing you might notice in the graphing application is these blue lines over and only in the Oregon data center the blue lines essentially represent what we call a foreign block a block that is not yet made its way across the wide area network from the site of ingest now we move these blocks asynchronously from the site of in jeff's oh that I have land speed performance in fact you can see I just finished the Terrigen part of the application all at the same time pushing data across the wide area network as fast as possible now as we start to get into the next phase of the application here which is going to run terrace sort i'm going to start creating some failures in the environment so the first thing I'm going to do is want to pick two named nodes I'm going to fail a local named node and then we're also going to fail a remote name node so let's pick one of these i'm going to pick HD p 2 is the name of the machine so want to do ssh hd2 and i'm just going to reboot that machine so as I hit the reboot button the next time the graphing application updates what you'll notice here in the monitor is that a flat line so it's no longer taking any data in but if you're watching the application on the right hand side there's no interruption of the service the application is going to continue to run and you'd expect that to happen maybe in land scope cluster but remember this is a single cluster a twin scope with 3,000 miles between the two of them so I've killed one of the six active named nodes the next thing I'm going to do is kill one of the name nodes over in the Oregon data center so I'm going to go ahead and ssh into i don't know let's pick the let's pick the bottom one HTTP nine in this case and then again another reboot operation so I've just rebooted two of the six name nose while running the job but if again if you look in the upper right-hand corner the job running in Oregon kajabi running in North Virginia continues without any interruption and see we just went from 84 to eighty eight percent MapReduce and so forth so again uninterruptedly like to call continuous availability at when distances you are playing that what does continuous availability and wins because that's really important drill down on yeah I mean I think if you look at the difference between what people traditionally call high availability that means that generally speaking the system is there there is a very short time that the system will be unavailable and then it will then we come available again a continuously available system ensures that regardless of the failures that happen around it the system is always up and running something is able to take the request and in a leaderless system like ours where no one single node actually it actually creates a leadership role we're able to continue replication we're and we're also able to continue the coordinator that's two distinct is high availability which everyone kind of know was in loves expensive and then continues availability which is a little bit kind of a the Sun or cousin I guess you know saying can you put in context and cost implementation you know from a from a from a from a perspective of a when disco deployment it's kind of a continuously available system even though people look at us as somewhat traditional disaster recovery because we are replicating data to another data center but remember it's active active that means both data centers are able to write at the same time you have you get to maximize your cluster resources and again if we go back to one of the first questions you asked what are what a customer's doing this with this what a prospects want to do they want to maximize their resource investment if they have half a million dollars sitting in another data center that only is able to perform an emergency recovery situation that means they either have to a scale the primary data center or be what they want to do is utilize existing resource in an active active configuration which is why i say continuous availability they're able to do that in both data centers maximizing all their resource so you versus the consequences of not having that would be the consequences of not being able to do that is you have a one-way synchronization a disaster occurs you then have to bring that data center online you have to make sure that all the appropriate resources are there you have to you have an administrative burden that means a lot of people have to go into action very quickly with the win disco systems right what that would look like I mean with time effort cost and you have any kind of order of magnitude spec like a gay week called some guy upside dude get in the office login you have to look at individual customer service level agreements a number that i hear thrown out very very often is about 16 hours we can be back online within 16 hours really RTO 44 when disco deployment is essentially zero because both sites are active you're able to essentially continue without without any doubt some would say some would say that's contingent availability is high available because essentially zero 16 that's 16 hours I mean any any time down bad but 16 hours is huge yeah that's the service of level agreement then everyone says but we know we can do it in five hours the other of course the other part of that is of course ensuring that once a year somebody runs through the emergency configure / it you know procedure to know that they truly can be back up in line in the service level agreement timeframe so again there's a tremendous amount of effort that goes into the ongoing administrating some great comments here on our crowd chatter out chat dot net / hadoop summit joined the conversation i'll see ya we have one says nice he's talking about how the system has latency a demo is pretty cool the map was excellent excellent visual dave vellante just weighed in and said he did a survey with Jeff Kelly said large portion twenty-seven percent of respondents said lack of enterprises great availability was the biggest barriers to adoption is this what you're referring to yeah this is this is exactly what we're seeing you know people are not able to meet the uptime requirements and therefore applications stay in proof-of-concept mode or those that make it out of proof of concept are heavily burdened by administrators and a large team to ensure that same level of uptime that can be handled without error through software configuration like Linda scope so another comment from Burt thanks Burt for watching there's availability how about security yeah so security is a good one of course we are you know we run on standard dupe distributions and as such you know if you want to run your cluster with on wire encryption that's okay if you want to run your cluster with kerberos authentication that's fine we we fully support those environments got a new use case for crowd chapel in the questions got more more coming in so send them in we're watching the crowd chat slep net / hadoop summit great questions and a lot of people aren't i think people have a hard time partial eh eh versus continues availability because you can get confused between the two is it semantics or is it infrastructure concerns what is what is the how do you differentiate between those two definitions me not I think you know part of it is semantics but but but also from a win disco perspective we like to differentiate because there really isn't that that moment of downtime there is there really isn't that switch over moment where something has to fail over and then go somewhere else that's why I use that word continuous availability the system is able to simply continue operating by clients load balancing their requests to available nodes in a similar fashion when you have multiple data centers as I do here I'm able to continue operations simply by running the jobs in the alternate data center remember that it's active active so any data ingest on one side immediately transfers to the other so maybe let me do the the next part I showed you one failure scenario you've seen all the nodes have actually come back online and self healed the next part of this I want to do an separation I want to run it again so let me kick up kick that off when I would create another directory structure here only this time I'm going to actually chop the the network link between the two data centers and then after I do that I'm going to show you some some of our new products in the works give you a demonstration of that as well well that's far enough Britain what are some of the applications that that this enables people to use the do for that they were afraid to before well I think it allows you know when we look at our you know our customer base and our prospects who are evaluating our technologies it opens up all the all the regulated industries you know things like pharmaceutical companies financial services companies healthcare companies all these people who have strict regulations auditing requirements and now have a very clear concise way to not only prove that they're replicating data that data has actually made its way it can prove that it's in both locations that it's not just in both locations that it's the correct data sometimes we see in the cases of like dis CP copying files between data centers where the file isn't actually copied because it thinks it's the same but there is a slight difference between the two when the cluster diverges like that it's days of administration hour depending on the size of the cluster to actually to put the cluster you know to figure out what went wrong what went different and then of course you have to involve multiple users to figure out which one of the two files that you have is the correct one to keep so let me go ahead and stop the van link here of course with LuAnn disco technology there's nothing to keep track of you simply allow the system to do HDFS replication because it is essentially native HDFS so I've stopped the tunnel between the two datacenters while running this job one of the things that you're going to see on the left-hand size it looks like all the notes no longer respond of course that's just I have no visibility to those nodes there's no longer replicating any data because the the tunnel between the two has been shut down but if you look on the right hand side of the application the upper right-hand window of course you see that the MapReduce job is still running it's unaffected and what's interesting is once I start replicating the data again or once i should say once i start the tunnel up again between the two data centers i'll immediately start replicating data this is at the block level so again when we look at other copy technologies they are doing things of the file level so if you had a large file and it was 10 gigabytes in size and for some reason you know your your file crash but in that in that time you and you were seventy percent through your starting that whole transfer again because we're doing block replication if you had seventy percent of your box that had already gone through like perhaps what I've done here when i start the tunnel backup which i'm going to do now what's going to happen of course is we just continue from those blocks that simply haven't made their way across the net so i've started the tunnel back up the monitor you'll see springs back to life all the name nodes will have to resync that they've been out of sync for some period of time they'll learn any transactions that they missed they'll be they'll heal themselves into the cluster and we immediately start replicating blocks and then to kind of show you the bi-directional nature of this I'm going to run Tara validate in the opposite data center over in Oregon and I'll just do it on that first directory that we created and in what you'll see is that we now wind up with foreign blocks in both sides I'm running applications at the same time across datacenters fully active active configuration in a single Hadoop cluster okay so the question is on that one what is the net net summarized that demo reel quick bottom line in two sentences is that important bottom line is if name notes fail if the wind fails you are still continuously operational okay so we have questions from the commentary here from the crowd chat does this eliminate the need for backup and what is actually transferring certainly not petabytes of data ? I mean you somewhat have to transfer what what's important so if it's important for you to I suppose if it was important for you to transfer a petabyte of data then you would need the bandwidth that support I transfer of a petabyte of data but we are to a lot of Hollywood studios we were at OpenStack summit that was a big concern a lot of people are moving to the cloud for you know for workflow and for optimization Star Wars guys were telling us off the record that no the new film is in remote locations they set up data centers basically in the desert and they got actually provisioned infrastructure so huge issues yeah absolutely so what we're replicating of course is HDFS in this particular case I'm replicating all the data in this fairly small cluster between the two sites or in this case this demo is only between two sites I could add a third site and then a failure between any two would actually still allow complete you know complete availability of all the other sites that still participate in the algorithm Brent great to have you on I want to get the perspective from you in the trenches out in customers what's going on and win disco tell us what the culture there what's going on the company what's it like to work there what's the guys like I mean we we know some of the dudes there cause we always drink some vodka with him because you know likes to tip back a little bit once in a while but like great guy great geeks but like what's what's it like it when disco I think the first you know you touched on a little piece of it at first is there are a lot of smart people at windows go in fact I know when I first came on board I was like wow I'm probably the most unsmoked person at this company but culturally this is a great group of guys they like to work very hard but equally they like to play very hard and as you said you know I've been out with cause several times myself these are all great guys to be out with the culture is great it's a it's a great place to work and you know so you know people who are who are interested should certainly yeah great culture and it fits in we were talking last night very social crowd here you know something with a Hortonworks guide so javi medicate fortress ada just saw him walk up ibm's here people are really sociable this event is really has a camaraderie feel to it but yet it's serious business and you didn't the days they're all a bunch of geeks building in industry and now it's got everyone's attention Cisco's here in Intel's here IBM's here I mean what's your take on the big guys coming in I mean I think the big guys realize that that Hadoop is is is the elephant is as large as it appears elephant is in the room and exciting and it's and everybody wants a little piece of it as well they should want a piece of it Brett thanks for coming on the cube really appreciate when discs are you guys a great great company we love to have them your support thanks for supporting the cube we appreciate it we right back after this short break with our next guest thank you

>>Hey everyone, welcome to this Cube's special program series Women of the Cloud, brought to you by aws. I'm your host for the series, Lisa Martin. Very pleased to be joined by Patty Jordan, the VP of enabling processes and technology at Optimus. My next guest, Patty, welcome to the program. >>Hi Lisa. Thank you for having me. >>Tell me a little bit about yourself, a little bit about your role so the audience gets that understanding of exactly who you are. >>Sure thing. Hi, my name is Patty Jordan. As we mentioned, I am originally from Cameroon, Central Africa, but I was raised in the DC area. I'm called and what you call a bank brat. My father worked for an international organization, the the World Bank. Lived in, like I said, grew up in dc, moved to Austin, Texas about seven years ago. Been with Optum for the last nine years of my working career. And I've had multiple roles, but currently my role as is with the enabling technologies and processes, which means that I manage teams that support the platform of a lot of analytics products in Optum. >>Got it. All right. Bank Brett, that's a new one to me. I hadn't heard that. I love that you're a bank, Brit and proud of it. I can tell. Talk to me a little bit about your, the career path that you have navigated and what are some of your sort of tactical and also strategic recommendations for the audiences looking to grow their career in tech? >>So the interesting thing is, I did not start in tech. My background is as an economist. I have a bachelor's of economics from the women, from the College of Women, Mary. I also have a financial master's in public policy from American University. However, I did take some IT classes and as a kid I'm probably dating myself a little bit, but I programmed in dos, so I, I was always excited by it and I had internships as a programmer that helped me pay for my master's degree in when I graduated. I just felt like I was having fun and I was getting paid very well and I was able to pay off my graduate schools. So I just stayed with tech. >>Love that. But it sounds like you had that interest from when you were quite young and as a lot of us and end up in tech, we didn't start there originally. There's a lot of zigzaggy paths to get there. Sounds like you had that as well. What are some of your recommendations for people, either those that are in tech now or aren't who want to get into it and really expand and climb that ladder? >>So definitely, so one of the things to understand is tech could be many different things. Like one of the things could be programming, which I started doing and now dislike intensely. And then another thing could be like being in the business analyst in tech, getting the business requirements versus product management or even, you know, management. And what I would encourage people to do is really focus on what you feel happy doing, which for me is problem solving and collaborating and getting the right people together to solve very complex problems. And if you focus on that then you'll find your, your the role for you even in tech. >>I love that problem solving is such an important skill to be able to have and to cultivate regardless of the industry that you're in. But I'd love to know a little bit more about some of the successes that you've had helping organizations really navigate their cloud journeys, their migration to cloud as we've seen the last couple of years, a massive acceleration to the cloud that was really born outta the pandemic. Talk to me about some of the successes that you've been able to achieve. >>So the first, I guess most obvious thing is understanding the technology. What do you have at your disposal? What do you need for your team to succeed in the cloud or even OnPrem? But what I've learned most in the last four to five years with the projects that I work on, whether it was migrating from a host data center to one that we owned ourselves or migrating from that data center to AWS recently was you really need to get the business organization engaged. And that's not just getting the sponsorship and getting them this to write that check, but really helping them understand how this journey to the cloud is a combined journey between both organizations, right? And they will be able to be more successful as well with us going to the cloud with improved processing with revenue protection because we, there's more tools available with revenue expansion because now we can now expand faster address client needs faster. And you know, so there's various different aspects of going to cloud that are more than just we're using the coolest technology. >>You're a problem solver, has there. And one of the challenges with organizations and from a cloud migration standpoint that we often talk about is it's a cultural migration as well, which is really challenging to do for any type of organization regardless of industry. Do you have a favorite example where as a, as the problem solver, you came in and really helped the organization, the business side understand, be able to transform their cultural direction, understand why cloud migration can be such a facilitator of the business from the top line in a bottom line perspective. >>So from a bottom line perspective, I think the hardest thing for them to understand or what does not compute for them is you can't give them a set. This is what you're gonna cost in the cloud, right? Because the benefit of being in the cloud is being able to scale shrink, et cetera. So that's one hurdle that we're still fighting to be a hundred percent candid. But from a a top line perspective, what's what's been great is we've been able to ramp up more clients with the same, right? So we haven't had to go out and procure more servers, more storage, hire more staff because we're in the cloud and we've actually been able to scale our teams as well because we incorporated the DevOps functions and we do not need a team to manage a data center anymore. So that they absolutely understood, you know, savings ratified, but really just how do we get to market faster? How do we get to revenue faster and how do we get more revenue with the same pool of resources is something that they've really, really resonated with. >>Well, you're starting to speak their language so that to your point that resonates well, but there's so much productivity improvements, efficiencies to be gained by leveraging cloud computing that that really hit the bottom line of an organization that businesses, if you put it in the right way. And it sounds like as the problem solver you have, they understand the immense value and competitive advantage that cloud can bring to their organization and become sort of a ah, the blinders are off. I get it. >>Exactly. Exactly. You're just not trying to, to play with the latest toys, you are actually solving a business problem even before it happens. >>And that's the key solving business problems before they happen. Being able to predict and forecast is huge for businesses, especially as we've seen the last couple of years. Everybody racing to digital, to to pivot, to survive Now to be competitive. If they don't do that and embrace that emerging technology suite, there's a competitor that's right back here that if they're more culturally willing and able to, to be more agile, they're gonna take the place of a competing organization. So yeah, so it absolutely is a huge differentiator for organizations. And it sounds like you've had some great successes there in helping organizations really navigate the challenges, the cultural challenges, but the benefits of cloud computing. Yes. I do wanna talk to you a little bit about in your expertise, diversity is something that is talked about in every industry. We talk about it in tech all the time, there's still challenges there. What are, what's, what are your thoughts on diversity? What are you seeing and what are some of those challenges that are still sitting on the table? >>So I guess the first thing I would say is there's multiple facets to diversity, right? The first one we always lean to is gender and race, but there's also diversity of thought. And being in the healthcare industry is very important for us to have a diversity of thought and experiences so that we can target a lot of these health equity issues that are, you know, that, that are ongoing. So that's one thing that we've, we've been trying to do is making sure that I don't just have people that think like me on the team. And typically that also means not having people that look like me. So making sure that we have the right pipelines to hire for partnering with our, with some of our vendors. AWS for example, is a good one where they had avenues and they had non-profits that they worked with and they connected us with some of our staff augmentation people also did the same thing, really just expanding the scope of where we're looking for talent and, and that helps also bring that diversity of thought and the diversity of gender race into the, into the full >>It is. And it and, and there's also, there's so much data if we follow the data and of course in tech we're all about data. Every company these days, regardless of industry needs to be a data company. If we follow the data, we can see that organizations with, for example, females within the C-suite are far more profitable than those organizations that don't have that even that element of diversity. So the data is demonstrating there's tremendous business value, tremendous competitive advantage, faster time to market, more products and services that can be delivered if there is thought diversity among the entire organization, not just the C-suite. >>Exactly. And and since we have an impact on what is being delivered as an engineering organization, we also need that in engineering, right? One of the things that's very keen right now is machine language and ai. If we don't have the right models for example, then we either introduced bias or perpetuate by it. So we definitely need people on our teams as well that understand how these technologies work, how we can leverage 'em on our data sets so that we could run counter to this bias >>And countering that bias is incredibly important. Machine learning ai, so driven by data, the volumes of data, but the data needs to be as clean and and non-biased as possible. And that's a big challenge for organizations to undertake. Is there advice that you have for those folks watching who might be, I, I don't see me in this organization, I don't feel represented. How can I change that? >>Well, one would be to speak up, right? Even if you don't see you apply for the job, right? And one of the things that we're trying to address even in the DEI space is making sure that our job descriptions are not introducing any biases so that people will eliminate themselves immediately, right? But really just if you have the skill set and you feel like you can ramp up to the talent, then just apply for the job. Talk to somebody. You do have a network whether you realize it or not. So leverage that network. But really like there's this expression that my kid taught me saying, you miss a hundred percent of the shots you don't take, right? So if you don't try, you're not gonna make it by default. If you do try, there's a chance to make it right. At the very least, you build a connection with someone who can potentially help you down the line. >>That is one of my absolute favorite sayings. You miss a hundred percent of the shots that you don't take. So encouraging people to raise their hand there, there are stats, data, speaking of data we've been talking about that, that demonstrate that women are far less likely to apply for jobs like on LinkedIn for example, unless they need 100% of the job requirements, which we all know are quite stringent and not necessary in a lot of cases. So I love your advice of just try raise your hand, ask the question. All the can say is no. And at the end of the day, what is that? It's a word but can also be directional and and really guiding for people on their journey to wherever that, if it's an engineering, cloud, engineering, DevOps, whatever happen that happens to be, raise your hand the question. And to your point, you have a network, it is there, open that up. There's so much potential for people that just raise, I think that's to raise their hand and ask the question. >>And the corollary to that though is I would also encourage people who are in leader leadership roles to be strong allies, right? Like we need to be aware of what biases we might be introducing or candidates that we might be leaving on the table because we're being too stringent because we're not expanding our, our our search, right? So definitely that's something that I've started doing about five, six years old shortly after I moved to Austin, which I kind of beat myself up about not having done before, is really contributing to that community, helping out, being a mentor, being a coach, being a guide. Sometimes it's just reviewing somebody's resume. Other times it's talking to 'em about a role that I have and helping them map their current state to that role. But really just being an ally to everyone and anyone who wants to come into this space. >>I love that. I, and I have a feeling, Patty, that you're a great mentor and ally for those in your organization across organizations and those out there that may not know yet. Patty can be an ally for me. I'd love to get your take in our final minutes on a couple things. One, the, what's next in cloud from your perspective, the things that you've seen, what you've been able to achieve, and how do you see your role evolving in the industry at Optum? >>So what's next in cloud, and we've talked about that a lot, is data. How do we manage all this data? How do we catalog this data, how to reuse this data, how to reshift this data? We have data in various different environments. We're a multi-cloud company. So how do we make sure that we don't have the same data everywhere? Or even if we do, how do we reconcile that? So data, data, data, right? And from data, get to information so that we can monetize it and we can share it. So that's the, that's for me is really next step. I mean we, we know the applications that we can build, we know the analytics that we can build, but if we don't have the right data, we're limiting ourselves. So that's definitely one aspect that I know that we wanna drive. And as far as my role, I was fortunate enough to be provided with the leadership of development of a platform for analytics, which yes, involves data. >>So I'm very excited about this, right? Cuz that's, that's next level for me. I've been typically in roles that protect revenue in the DevOps and operations role. And now I'm in a revenue generating role and it has a shift in mindset. But I, I really appreciate it and I'm really taking everything I've learned up to now as a DevOps team. I knew when the bad things came. So now I'm trying to prevent, prevent my team from pushing bad things down the pipe, right? So I'm just really excited about what's, what's, what's to come because there's so many opportunities for improving the products that we build. And I'm so excited to be part of this platform. >>There are the, the horizon of opportunities is really endless, which is exciting. And to your point about data, like I mentioned, for every company, whether it's your grocery store, a retailer, the postal service has to become a data driven company. Cuz as consumers we expect that we bring that into our business lives and we expect to be able to transact in business as easily as we do on the consumer side. And that all requires organizations to not just have access to data, but to be able to build the right data infrastructure, toing insights to act on that, to feed the AI and ML models so that products services can get better, more personalized and meet the demands of the ever demanding consumer, which I know I, one of them. I wanna ask you one more final question and that is, what do you think some of the biggest challenges have been with, with respect to tech innovation in the workforce over the past five years? What are some of those things that, that you've seen that you think we're on the right track moving forward to eliminate some of these? >>That is a good question. I think one of the biggest challenges for me has been not to remain in the status quo, right? Like not to do something because it's what we've been doing, but being in the cloud allows us with so many opportunities where we can fail fast. That let's give it a shot, let's do a quick sprint, let's figure out whether it is a possibility or not. Eliminate it if it's not, and then keep moving, right? Like we don't have the same development methodology before that we had to do three months, five months, six months. You can iterate in two week chunks, get it done, confirm your, your statement or not, or negate it, but at the very least have an answer, right? So that for me is the biggest challenge. We're aware of the thinking we're just not doing. So it'd be very exciting when we, when we pivot from that and really start innovating because we have the time >>Innovating because we have the time, as I mentioned, you know, with the demand of consumers, whether it's consumer in, in on the personal side, business side, those demands are there. But the, the exciting thing is to your point, the innovations are there. The capabilities are there, the data is there. We have a lot of what we need to be able to take advantage of that. So it's gonna be exciting to see what happens over the next few years. Patty, it's been such a pleasure having you on the cube today. Thank you so much for joining. You are clearly a, a leader in terms of women in the cloud. We appreciate what you're doing, your insights, your recommendations, and your insights as to what you see in the future. You've been a great guest. Thank you so much for joining me today. >>Thank you for having me Lisa. >>My pleasure For Patty Jordan, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching The Cubes coverage of Women of the Cloud, brought to you by aws, a special program series. We thank you so much for watching. Take care.

>>The cube presents HPE discover 2022 brought to you by HPE. >>Welcome back to the Cube's day one coverage of HPE discover 2022 live from Las Vegas. Lisa Martin, here with Dave ante. We've got a couple of guests here with us next, gonna be talking about industry transformation, please. Welcome, brought off director of global industry and sustainability marketing and Andy Hulk, halter senior director at worldwide industry sales programs, guys from HPE. Thanks for joining us. You bet. >>Thank you for having to >>Be here, >>Industry transformation. That's a big term. It's not a new concept, but we see so much going on. Andy, talk to you about industry transformation, from your perspective, where are customers, how are they capitalizing to really make data a true currency? >>Right? Well, underlying all this is, is the data that is becoming so complex, but at the same time, there's specialization required in each industry with the different applications that the industries are running and our ability to bring that forward and connect all those things is a big trend going on. And as we see that developing over time, um, we're getting more, um, connecting those different applications that are running is becoming more, uh, every day we're doing more of that. >>One more. >>So where do you wanna start? What's your favorite industry to, to transform? Uh, I mean, financial services is, you know, got the right, the whole blockchain thing going on, uh, industry 4.0 and manufacturing, you know, retail, everybody has, uh, you know, an Amazon war room, you know, energy now with EVs and, and solar and everything else and the price of oil. And, and now you throw in inflation and supply chain and you, I mean, it's just, every industry is getting disrupted. I, I wanna make an observation. You guys tell me what you think. Yeah. You know, think about the, the incumbent industries. They, they generally have data at the outskirts. It's all siloed and they're trying to put it at the core and that's a big challenge for them. What are you guys seeing in terms of who is having success with that? Do you have examples? What role do you play? Yeah, we have so much to talk about, right? Yeah. >>Yeah. Let me I'll jump in here. Um, I mean, I think one of the unique ideas is all this interest industries you mentioned, there are all trying to learn from each other, right? If you're a financial institution, you wanna understand what retail is doing because you wanna serve your customers better. Right. You wanna look at, you know, some of these technologies, how they're being applied. Um, you look about like sustainability industries are trying to learn how to do that better from each other. So there's this notion of industry and transformation is it's kind of twofold. It's one. How are these industries almost like entering new markets? I mean, you look at, at all the tech, tech companies out there, they're all getting in into payments, for example. Right. You know, Google pay app. Yeah. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so that's just like one example of where you're seeing the kind of, that, that blurring of lines between industries happening >>Content, uh, Amazon getting into grocery. And so in, in the premises, that data is the enabler. I mean, right. For decades, we've seen a, a, a stack, a vertical stack within an industry where, yeah. Where, whether it's, you know, research and development, manufacturing, sales, and distribute marketing, you were in that industry stuck for life. Right. And now all of a sudden data allows you to traverse industries. Yeah. This dual disruption agenda that you mentioned, right? >>Yeah. It's, it's, it's really, as it's core is because these companies have the ability to take advantage of that data even more. And they're trying to serve their customers even better that that's kind of opening up these new doors for them to, to do that because that's, you know, and again, there's so many good examples out there. Uh, automobile manufacturing are looking towards the gaming industry, you know, to how do they design controls, you know, that kind of stuff is, you know, as example. So you see, you know, all kinds of that. You mentioned also that, you know, everybody's trying to bring the data to the core. I don't, I don't think that's necessarily true. I think you heard earlier today in the keynote, you know, that that companies want to be able to, to take advantage of the data, data, wherever it is. Um, if it's the edge and a factory floor, if it's in a, you know, it's patient data sitting somewhere, you want to, you know, handle it where it is, and there's a cost to doing that, to bring it all >>Together. Yeah. So by the way, I wanna clarify you're absolutely right. The data by its very nature is distributed. Sure. When I say core, I mean, put it at the core of their business. Sure. That's >>What, I mean, >>Fair enough by data first, but your point is really, we're gonna talk about that. Yeah. Because it brings, brings so many other challenges with how you deal with that. But please jump in Lisa. Yeah. >>I was just gonna ask you, Brad, you talk about the blurred lines between industries. Yeah. And talk to us about how is HPE a facilitator of those industries learning from each other. You have such breadth in so many different industries as Dave mentioned, but how are you that enabler, if you will, of allowing them to, to be able to have data be that key. >>Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think it just comes through the experience of working with these customers, um, you know, in these various industries. And then, um, there's so many times where customers come to us and they want us brief and again, they wanna learn for these other industries. So we're an aggregator of that technology. We obviously UN understand the technology with the cloud or, you know, edge or, you know, anything we're doing in with data. So we're using those, you know, those lessons and just applying those out there, um, you know, to those industries. So it's, I think it's just us as an aggregator. >>You, you, how how's the customer experience changing any we heard from home Depot this morning, they were focused on the customer experience and, and their associate experience. Right? Yeah. Bringing those together maybe. >>Well, you know, what we also heard this morning is the different personas, right. That are out there and being that are looking to transform their business. Yeah. And each of those personas is still linked together by the data, but they want to use it in different ways with different applications and the ability to connect all those things. Again, they're learning from each industry. So what home Depot learns about their mobile apps, maybe something that we can deploy in, uh, manufacturing, um, as far as locating things on the floor and connecting the edge data in, bring it in to, and then use that to analyze, use AI models, to do predictive behavior, uh, preventative maintenance, all these things are similar uses of connecting the data, but then applying to the specific industry use case. Yeah. And that pivot of that horizontal use of the data into those specific demands by, uh, at the personas within the, the, the different industries is what we're, we're >>Focused on. Yeah. And the technology is like an accelerate, you know, here. So you're think about like something like 5g, right. 5g is gonna accelerate, you know, a lot of transformation in various industries. Um, throughout that, I mean, tech, you know, the technology alone is not really what the, the, the customer cares about it. They, they care about what do I do with that? What kind of outcome can I get? Right. >>I wanna ask you, Andy, about the customer conversations, you talked about the personas, we've been talking about data democratization for a very long time. Mm-hmm, <affirmative> obviously is a challenging thing to do, but how were you seeing customer conversations, change and evolve, especially over the last couple of years where every L B has to have access to data and be a driver of its value. >>Right. Well, the customer, you know, historically H HP's, uh, background is in infrastructure and we've served industries in the data center for a legacy, right. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, but now they're saying it's more, you know, I've gotta talk to, uh, more people in my business as a data center owner, I've gotta serve these folks, understand their business. And as a supplier, to me, you need to understand them as well. And sometimes help me with that conversation and help me see the things to make those connections that I may not know as a data, you know, as a, as an it professional. Um, and how do we challenge the business to think about different ways of doing things in the industry? So how do we, we think about, um, you know, bringing those connections from other industries in, and, and, uh, uncovering, uh, opportunities or problems anticipating problems in those deployments that they may not have seen by their staying in their swim lane. >>Yeah. You know, I'm, I'm touring on this topic because on the one hand, I think about the, the big data era and, and, and I know a, of, a lot of failures to, to return, you know, the expectations and it wasn't a fail fast. It took a decade, you know, to get there. And part of the failure domain was to your earlier point, Brett, everything was sort of shoved into this centralized location. Yeah. You have this hyper specialized data team, and everybody has to go through them, but organizations I think are now realizing it, like, like your thoughts on this, that data has to go out to the lines of business. It has to be contextualized. People are now talking about building data products and monetizing data. And yeah, that's really, to me what digital transformation is about. So, but generally speaking, most companies are not great at data. They have a lot of data. Yeah. A lot of, lot of data line around insights. I think we heard in the morning keynote are scarce. Right. So what's your vision for how this evolves? >>Yeah. I think, I think, you know, from the data perspective that again, the, at the core is how do I serve my customer better? Right. So, you know, whether that is actual, you know, customer data that you want to sort of up personalized offers for, or, you know, make decisions of, you know, medical decisions for their, you know, for their, you know, better patient outcomes. So if they keep that in mind, then, you know, as far as how it's used by the different lines of business there, you know, that's where we can help facilitate, you know, in many ways. And that's where, you know, cloud becomes a, you know, a really key technology, um, you know, having that flexibility to, to move it around as needed, create the, you know, um, deliver the workload where the customer needs it, that, you know, that sort of idea is, is where we're, we're going with this. >>I think, yeah. I'd, I'd like to give you an example, um, please, in the FSI industry, uh, out here on the floor, we've got a demo on payment systems, right. And we've been doing that, uh, with our nonstop, uh, product and supporting that, uh, in the, in the banking industry for 10 years or more. And it's evolved over time to be one of the, you know, it's a ubiquitous across the, in the support. Yeah. Um, but now we're talking about new regulations with all the global events that are going on, you know, crazy stuff that more pressure on the banks to, to comply with that, um, worries about money laundering and fraud prevention. Well, connecting those, the data from those payment systems into the AI modeling that is now being deployed to do more sophisticated fraud detection and Mon money laundering detection and all of those kinds of things, how you connect those together as an example, what we're seeing, how we get more insights by, uh, by the combination that we can bring together. >>And the insights is critical. Yes. Right. I mean, without it, the data isn't very useful. >>Right, right. Right. And I think even, you know, these, these concepts like swarm learning right. Where you're actually trying to aggregate a lot of those, you know, a lot of that data and, and provide, you know, even a broader data set to, to learn from is even, you know, more beneficial. >>I think the, when you think about the, the principles of this, this decentralized world, that's that it starts with an organization saying, look, we recognize that we can't shove it all into a data warehouse or a data hub or a single data lake. Yeah. We're gonna have all of those. And those are just kind of nodes in the mesh, like it's steel as Youma the GHI term <laugh> and, and, and, and increasingly data as product that can be monetized. We're hearing a lot more about this, and those are organizational yeah. Considerations. I mean, HPE can maybe facilitate that through whiteboard sessions, but, but the, that leads to, in order to, to democratize data, I need self-service infrastructure and I need data that can be shared and governed. I, I don't know about the last one, but you definitely are. Number three self-service infrastructure simplification. Yeah. Your version of cloud. How do you see that, uh, your, your role in that little vision that I just laid out? Do you buy that? >>You wanna take that or, >>Well, I, I think that we have, um, we definitely, because we, we see the data in all these different places and we're, we're trying to be agnostic to, um, you know, where it comes from, who owns it. It's how do you get it together and make it useful? And you don't have to capture it. You don't have to own it, but you may own some of it. You may borrow some of it. You may rent some of it. You may buy it and you may bring it together and they'll use it for the purpose. And then move on to expand into new things that you learn from that you may then monetize, um, in all those different ways. So we have a role of making that platform in a way that you can see it in different ways and use it consistently and repetitively and GRA gain more value of it, and then apply your applications and, you know, all those other things that you do. But that, that bringing together agnostically is a big part of our offering. >>And, and am I, am I not correct? I'm in my thinking on H HP's value is providing that infrastructure, uh, to be able to do just, just that that's your swim lane, if you will. And >>It is, but we're being asked to move up the stack and provide not only the infrastructure now, the platform, the ability to offer that platform, uh, in our HPE GreenLake offering where we're, we now can, you know, have cloud-like services on prem. It doesn't really matter where the data sits, um, and then plug in the applications and even manage those applications for the >>Customers. Okay. So, I mean, I see you as I, as, and Paz, which that up to stack yeah. The ability to, okay. I want whatever Python or open shift, I wanna build applications now on that. Interesting. The management piece is something I, I excluded, um, be because an organization may say, Hey, we need help managing this stuff. Right. But I see that, that I, as in pass, as infrastructure, you're not getting into applications where you're getting, you're not >>No other than letting, letting customers, you actually build on top of that. Right. Right. There's a >>Lot of customer, you're an enabler. >>Absolutely. Yeah. You look at some of the things we're doing with, you know, with our escrow platform and things like that. Right. You know, we're providing that development platform in a, in a really streamlined way of, of, you know, pushing, you know, applications out. I mean, little known fact, right. Is that most banks right now are hiring more developers right now than, than finance people. So all these, all these industries are becoming tech companies and that's, you know, that's the whole launch of the FinTech industry many years ago, and it's, you know, continued to evolve >>And they want to bring AI, they wanna bring data into their applications. And you, HPE I see is an enabler of >>That. Absolutely. Absolutely. >>Give us last question. As we wrap up here, give us the vision, like the next five years, what are some of the industry transformation elements you are forecasting if you have a crystal >>Ball. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think number one, just an increased focus on personalization and customization. Uh, you know, you look at, you know, personalized offers when you add location based services, things like that, combined 5g, you know, like all this technologies, you're seeing a lot of that custom manufacturing, so those kind of trends are gonna continue. And we know that's, you know, those are the workloads that we gotta, you know, know know is coming, you know, down the pike and, and, and address those. Um, secondly I think AI, right, AI is gonna, is gonna be, you know, it's gonna impact every industry in a big, big way. You know, when like Andy talked right about, you know, fraud detection, uh, you know, manufacturing, robotics, those kind of things. Uh, and then I think, um, you know, lastly, just, just this more convergence, you know, of these industries, right. You know, tech is just, you know, impacting everything in such a big way. And so you're gonna see more of that, that blurring of lines between, between industries. So they jump into jump outta their normal swim lanes. Right, right. >>Be between machine learning and AI, we're gonna see efficiencies by doing things better, with less, uh, deviations and driving, uh, lower cost. And we're gonna see new capabilities come to the forefront and that's gonna be consistent across all industries. And it's gonna be based on the data. Both of those require the models, you know, the data go in and drive their models. Do >>You think any industry is more ripe for disruption? I mean, timeframe wise, you got healthcare, you know, like I always wonder, you know, how is AI gonna help doctors make better diagnoses already is yeah. Will, will AI make the diagnoses? Yeah. You know, retail, I mentioned before, you know, energy, you know, government is changing entertainment, media entertainment is, do you see any industry patterns where one is being disrupted more than the other? >>When we talk to customers, every industry thinks their industry is not going fast enough. And so it's like, you know, I think everybody is just so hyper focused on, you know, what they are involved in and then their domain that, uh, you, you, depending on who you talk to. Yeah. I, you don't, everybody needs to do it faster, you know, more economically, um, and more efficiently. Right. And so >>I think, and they're all being disrupted now, too. Absolutely. It's not only have to do faster, but they've got to, um, transform to keep up with the demands of their >>Customer. Nobody's safe. >>Yeah. And the technology's just gonna continue to accelerate that. And that's the thing. And, and, and the market's becoming, you know, less forgiving as, as we go. So people have to react really, really fast in these markets, you know, and especially with all the other changes going on around us, uh, to, to actually, you know, make that impact. >>Interesting. I'm liking what's in this crystal ball. I'm gonna have to ask you guys for some cons after we wrap here. Absolutely. Thank you so much for joining David, me talking about industry transformation, tremendous amount of, of transformation so far and so much to go. It's exciting to watch. >>Yeah. Appreciate it. >>Have an, we appreciate it for our guests and Dave ante. I, Lisa Martin, you're watching the cube, the leader in live tech coverage. You AP back after a short break.

>>Hello, everybody. Welcome to Von 2022, the live version. Yes, we're finally back live. Last time we did Von was 2019 live. Of course we did two subsequent years, uh, virtual. My name is Dave Valante and we've got two days of wall to wall coverage of VEON. As usual Veeam has brought together a number of customers, but it's really doing something different this year. Like many, uh, companies that you see, they have a big hybrid event. It's close to 40,000 people online and that's sort of driving the actual program where the content is actually different for the, the, the virtual viewers versus the onsite onsite. There's the, the V I P event going on, they got the keynotes. VM is a company who's a ancy occurred during the, the VMware rise. They brought in a new way of doing data protection. They didn't use agents. They, they protected at the hypervisor level. >>That changed the way that people did things. They're now doing it again in cloud, in SAS, in containers and ransomware. And so we're gonna dig into that. My cohost is Dave Nicholson this week, and we've got a special guest Zs Carava who is the principal at ZK research. He's an extraordinary analyst Zs. Great to see you, David. Thanks for coming out. Absolutely good to see you Beon. Great to be here. Yeah, we've done. Von act, live things have changed so dramatically. Uh, I mean the focus ransomware, it's now a whole new Tam, uh, the adjacency to security data protection. It's just a Zs. It's a whole new ballgame, isn't it? >>Well, it is. And, and in fact, um, during the keynote, they, they mentioned that they've, they're now tied at number one in, for, you know, back of a recovery, which is, I think it's safe to say Veeam. Does that really well? >>I think from a that's tied with Dell. Yes. Right. They didn't, I don't think they met Dell as >>Keto. And, uh, but I, you know, they've been rising Dell, EMC's been falling. And so I think >>It's somebody said 10 points that Dell lost and sharing the I data. >>It's not a big surprise. I mean, they haven't really invested a whole lot, >>I think anyway, >>Anyways, but I think from a Veeam perspective, the question is now that they've kind of hit that number one spot or close to it, what do they do next? This company, they mentioned, I was talking the CTO yesterday. You mentioned they're holding X bite of customer data. That is a lot of data. Right. And so they, they do back recovery really well. They do it arguably better than anybody. And so how do they take that data and then move into other adjacent markets to go create, not just a back recovery company, but a true data management platform company that has relevancy in cyber and analytics and artificial intelligence and data warehousing. Right? All those other areas I think are, are really open territory for this company right now. >>You know, Dave, you were a CTO at, at EMC when you, when you saw a lot of the acquisitions that the company made, uh, you, you know, they really never had a singular focus on data protection. They had a big data protection business, but that's the differentiator with Veeam. That's all it does. And you see that shine through from a, from a CTO's perspective. How do you see this market changing, evolving? And what's your sense as to how Vema is doing here? >>I think a lot of it's being driven by kind of, uh, unfortunately evil genius, uh, out in the market space. Yeah. I know we're gonna be hearing a lot about ransomware, uh, a lot about some concepts that we didn't really talk about outside of maybe the defense industry, air gaping, logical air gaping, um, Zs, you mentioned, you know, this, this, this question of what do you do when you have so many petabytes of data under management exabytes now exabytes, I'm sorry. Yeah, I see there I'm I'm already falling behind. One thing you could do is you could encrypt it all and then ask for Bitcoin in exchange for access to that data. >>Yes. That is what happens a >>Lot of them. So we're, we're getting, we're getting so much of the evil genius stuff headed our way. You start, you start thinking in those ways, but yet to, to your point, uh, dedicated backup products, don't address the scale and scope and variety of threats, not just from operational, uh, uh, you know, mishaps, uh, but now from so many bad actors coming in from the outside, it it's a whole new world. >>See us as analysts. We get inundated with ransomware solutions. Everybody's talking about it across the spectrum. The thing that interested me about what's happening here at VEON is they're, they're sort of trotting out this study that they do Veeam does some serious research, you know, thousands of customers that got hit by ransomware that they dug into. And then a, a larger study of all companies, many of whom didn't realize or said they hadn't been hit by ransomware, but they're really trying to inject thought leadership into the equation. You saw some of that in the analyst session this morning, it's now public. Uh, so we could talk about it. What were your thoughts on that data? >>Yeah, that was, uh, really fascinating data cuz it shows the ransomware industry, the response to it is largely reactive, right? We wait to get breach. We wait to, to uh, to get held at ransom I suppose. And then we, a lot of companies paid out. In fact, I thought there's one hospital in Florida, they're buying lots and lots of Bitcoin simply to pay out ransomware attacks. They didn't even really argue with them. They just pay it out. And I think Veeam's trying to change that mentality a little bit. You know, if you have the right strategy in place to be more preventative, you can do that. You can protect your data and then restore it right when you want to. So you don't have to be in that big bucket of companies that frankly pay and actually don't get their data back. Right. >>And like a third, I think roughly >>It's shocking amount of companies that get hit by that. And for a lot of companies, that's the end of their business. >>You know, a lot of the recovery process is manual is again a technologist. You understand that that's not the ideal way to go. In fact, it's probably a, a way to fail. >>Well, recovery's always the problem when I was in corporate, it used to joke that we were the best at backup, terrible at recovery. Well, you know, that's not atypical. >>My Fred Fred Moore, who was the vice president of strategy at a company called storage tech storage technology, corpor of storage tech. He had a great, uh, saying, he said, backup is one thing. Recovery is everything. And he started, he said that 30 years ago, but, but orchestration and automating that orchestration is, is really vital. We saw in the study, a lot of organizations are using scripts and scripts are fragile here they break. Right? >>Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, unfortunately the idea of the red run book on the shelf is still with us. Uh, uh, you know, scripting does not equal automation necessarily in every case, there's still gonna be a lot of manual steps in the process. Um, but you know, what I hope we get to talk about during the next couple of days is, you know, some of the factors that go into this, we've got day zero exploits that have already been uncovered that are stockpiled, uh, and tucked away. And it's inevitable that they're gonna hit. Yeah. So whether it's a manual recovery process or some level of automation, um, if you don't have something that is air gapped and cut off from the rest of the world in a physical or logical way, you can't guarantee >>That the, the problem with manual processes and scripting is even if you can set it up today, the environment changes so fast, right? With shadow it and business units buying their own services and users storing things and you know, wherever, um, you, you can't keep up with scripts in manual. Automation must be the way and I've been, and I don't care what part of it. You work in, whether it's this area in networking, communications, whatever automation must be the way I think prior to the pandemic, I saw a lot of resistance from it pros in the area of mission. Since the pandemic, I've seen a lot of warming up to it because I think it pros, I just realized they can't do their job without it. So, so you >>Don't, you don't think that edge devices, uh, lend themselves to manual >>Recovery, no process. In fact, I think that's one of the things they didn't talk about. What's that is, is edge. Edge is gonna be huge. More, every retailer, I talk to oil and gas, company's been using it for a long time. I've, you know, manufacturing organizations are looking at edge as a way to put more data in more places to improve experiences. Cuz you're moving the data closer, but we're creating a world where the fragmentation of data, you think it's bad now just wait a couple of years until the edge is a little more, you know, uh, to life here. And I think you ain't see nothing yet. This is this world of data. Everywhere is truly becoming that. And the thing with edge is there's no one definition, edge, you got IOT edge cellular edge, campus edge, right? Um, you know, you look at hotels, they have their own edge. I talked to major league baseball, right? They have every, stadium's got its own edge server in it. So we're moving into a world. We're putting more data in more places it's more fragmented than ever. And we need better ways of managing Of securing that data. But then also being able to recover for when >>Things happen. I was having that Danny Allen, he used the term that we coined called super cloud. He used that in the analyst meeting today. And, and that's a metaphor for this new layer of cloud. That's developing to your point, whether it's on-prem in a hybrid across clouds, not just running on the cloud, but actually abstracting away the complexity of the underlying primitives and APIs. And then eventually to your point, going out to the edge, I don't know if anyone who has an aggressive edge strategy Veeam to its credit, you know, has gone well beyond just virtualization and gone to bare metal into cloud. They were the containers. There was first at SAS. They acquired Caston who was a partner of theirs and they tried to acquire them earlier, but there was some government things and you know, that whole thing that got cleaned up and now they've, they own Caston. And I think the edge is next. I mean, it's gotta be, there's gonna be so much data at the edge. I guess the question is where is it today? How much of that is actually persisted? How much goes back to the cloud? I don't think people really have a good answer for that yet. >>No. In fact, a lot of edge services will be very ephemeral in nature. So it's not like with cloud where we'll take data and we'll store it there forever with the edge, we're gonna take data, we'll store it there for the time, point in time we need it. But I think one of the interesting things about Veeam is because they're decoupled from the airline hardware, they can run virtual machines and containers, porting Veeam to whatever platform you have next actually isn't all that difficult. Right? And so then if you need to be able to go back to a certain point in time, they can do that instantly. It's, it's a fascinating way to do backup. Are >>You you' point about it? I mean, you remember the signs up and down, you know, near the EMC facility, right outside of Southborough no hardware agenda that that was Jeremy Burton when he was running Verto of course they've got a little hardware agenda. So, but Veeam doesn't Veeam is, you know, they they're friendly with all the hardware players of pure play software, couple other stats on them. So they're a billion dollar company. They've now started to talk about their ARR growth. They grew, uh, 27% last year in, in, in annual recurring revenue, uh, 25%, uh, in the most recent quarter. And so they're in, in the vast majority of their business is subscription. I think they said, uh, 73% is now subscription based. So they really trans transitioned that business. The other thing about vem is they they've come up with a licensing model that's very friendly. >>Um, and they sort of removed that friction early on in the process. I remember talking to TIR about this. He said, we are gonna incent our partners and make it transparent to them, whether it's, you know, that when we shift from, you know, the, the, the, the crack of, of perpetual license to a subscription model, we're gonna make that transparent to partners. We'll take care of that. Essentially. They funded that transition. So that's worked very well. So they do stand out, I think from some of the larger companies at these big portfolios, although the big portfolio companies, you know, they get board level contacts and they can elbow their ways in your thoughts on that sort of selling dynamic. >>So navigating that transition to a subscription model is always fraught with danger. Everybody wants you to be there, but they want you to be there now. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, they don't like the transition that happens over 1824 months to get there. Um, >>As a private company, they're somewhat shielded from what they would've been if they were appli. Sure, >>Exactly. But, but that, but that bodes well from a, from a, a Veeam perspective. Um, the other interesting thing is that they sit where customers sit today in the real world, a hybrid world, not everything is in the cloud or a single cloud, uh, still a lot of on-prem things to take care of. And, >>And there will be for >>A long time exactly. Back to this idea. Yeah. There's a very long tail on that. So it's, it's, it's well enough to have a niche product that addresses a certain segment of the market, but to be able to go in and say all data everywhere, it doesn't matter where it lives. We have you covered. Um, that's a powerful message. And we were talking earlier. I think they, they stand a really good shot at taking market share, you know, on an ongoing basis. >>Yeah. The interesting thing about this market, Dave is they're, you know, although, you know, they're tied to number one with Dell now, they're, it's 12%, right? This reminds me of the security industry five, six years ago, where it's so fragmented. There's so many vendors, no one really stood out right. Then what happened in security? It's a little company called Palo Alto networks came around, they created a platform story. They moved into adjacent markets like SDWAN, they did a lot of smart acquisitions and they took off. I think vem is at that similar point where they've now, you know, that 12% number they've got some capital. Now they could go do some acquisitions that they want do. There's lots of adjacent markets as they talk about this company could be the Palo Alto of the data management market, if you know, and based on good execution. But there's certainly the opportunities there with all the data that they're holding. >>That's a really interesting point. I wanna stay that in a second. So there's obviously, there's, there's backup, there's recovery, there's data protection, there's ransomware protection, there's SAS data protection. And now all of a sudden you're seeing even a company like Rubrik is kind of repositioning as a security play. Yeah. Which I'm not sure that's the right move for a company that's really been focused on, on backup to really dive into that fragmented market. But it's clearly an adjacency and we heard Anan the new CEO today in the analyst segment, you know, we asked him, what's your kinda legacy gonna look like? And he said, I want to, I want to, defragment this market he's looking at. Yeah. He wants 25 to 45% of the market, which I think is really ambitious. I love that goal now to your point, agree, he, he sure. But that doubles yeah. >>From today or more, and he gets there to your point, possibly through acquisitions, they've made some really interesting tuck-ins with Castin. They certainly bought an AWS, uh, cloud play years ago. But my, my so, uh, Veeam was purchased by, uh, private equity inside capital inside capital in January of 2020, just before COVID for 5 billion. And at the time, then COVID hit right after you were like uhoh. And then of course the market took off so great acquisition by insight. But I think an IPO is in their future and that's, uh, Zs when they can start picking up some of these adjacent markets through every day. >>And I think one of the challenges for them is now that the Holden XAB bited data, they need to be able to tell customers things they, the customer doesn't know. Right. And that's where a lot of the work they're doing in artificial intelligence machine learning comes into play. Right. And, and nobody does that better than AWS, right? AWS is always looking at your data and telling you things you don't know, which makes you buy more. And so I think from a Veeam perspective, they need to now take all this, this huge asset they have and, and find a way to monetize it. And that's by revealing these key insights to customers that the customers don't even know they have. And >>They've got that monitor monitoring layer. Um, it's if you called it, Danny, didn't like to use the term, but he called it an AI. It's really machine learning that monitors. And then I think makes recommendations. I want to dig into that a little bit with it. >>Well, you can see the platform story starting to build here. Right. And >>Here's a really good point. Yeah. Because they really have been historically a point product company. This notion of super cloud is really a platform play. >>Right. And if you look in the software industry, look across any, any segment of the software industry, those companies that were niche that became big became platforms, Salesforce, SAP, Oracle. Right. And, and they find a way to allow others to build on their platform. You know, companies, they think like a Citrix, they never did that. Yeah. And they kind of taped, you know, petered out at a certain level of growth and had to, you know, change. They're still changing their business model, in fact. But I think that's Veeam's at that inflection point, right. They either build a platform story, enable others to do more on their platform or they stagnate >>HP software is another good example. They never were able to get that platform. And we're not able bunch of spoke with it, a non used to work there. Why is it so important Dave, to have a platform over a product? >>Well, cynical, Dave says, uh, you have a platform because it attracts investment and it makes you look cooler than maybe you really are. Um, but, uh, but really for longevity, you have, you, you, you have to be a platform. So what's >>The difference. How do you know when you have platform versus it? APIs? Is it, yeah. Brett, is it ecosystem? >>Some of it is. Some of it is semantics. Look at when, when I'm worried about my critical assets, my data, um, I think of a platform, a portfolio of point solutions for backing up edge data stuff. That's in the cloud stuff that exists in SAS. I see that holistically. And I think guys, you're doing enough. This is good. Don't, don't dilute your efforts. Just keep focusing on making sure that you can back up my data wherever it lives and we'll both win together. So whenever I hear a platform, I get a little bit, a little bit sketchy, >>Well platform, beats products, doesn't >>It? Yeah. To me, it's a last word. You said ecosystem. Yes. When you think of the big platform players, everybody B in the customer, uh, experience space builds to build for Salesforce. First, if you're a small security vendor, you build for Palo Alto first, right? Right. If you're in the database, you build for Oracle first and when you're that de facto platform, you create an ecosystem around you that you no longer have to fund and build yourself. It just becomes self-fulfilling. And that drives a level of stickiness that can't be replicated through product. >>Well, look at the ecosystem that, that these guys are forming. I mean, it's clear. Yeah. So are they becoming in your view >>Of platform? I think they are becoming a platform and I think that's one of the reasons they brought on and in, I think he's got some good experience doing that. You could argue that ring kind of became that. Right. The, when, you know, when he was ring central. >>Yeah. >>Yeah. And, uh, so I think some, some of his experiences and then moving into adjacencies, I think is really the reason they brought him in to lead this company to the next level. >>Excellent guys, thanks so much for setting up VEON 20, 22, 2 days of coverage on the cube. We're here at the area. It's a, it's a great venue. I >>Love the area. >>Yeah. It's nice. It's a nice intimate spot. A lot of customers here. Of course, there's gonna be a big Veeam party. They're famous for their parties, but, uh, we'll, we'll be here to cover it and, uh, keep it right there. We'll be back with the next segment. You're watching the cube VEON 20, 22 from Las Vegas.

>>welcome back everyone. We're back to intermission. I'm hama in case you forgot and hear them with Brett and Peter. So what a great morning afternoon. We've had like we're now in the home stretch and you know, I really want to give a shout out to all of you who are sticking with us, especially if you're in different time zone than pacific. So I then jumped into the community rooms. The spanish won, the Brazilian won the french one. Everybody is just going strong. So again, so much so gratitude for that. Thank you for being so involved and really participating the chat rooms in the community. The chat windows in the community rooms are just going nuts. So it's, it's really good to see that. And as usual, Peter and brat had some great, very interactive panels and that was very exciting to watch. But you know, since they were on the panels, I decided to go and see some other things and I actually attended the last mile of container ization. That was, that was actually a very good session. We had a lot of good interactivity there. Yeah. And then while also talked about the container security in the cloud native world. So that was, I think that was your panel peter. That was, that was very exciting. And um, I want to share with everybody the numbers that we've been seeing for dr khan live. So as, as of, I'm sorry, said we need a drumroll. We do need a drum roll. Can you do a drum roll for me? No, no, no. >>Just a >>symbol. Okay, good. Go. Uh, we're at over 22,000 attendees um, today. So that's amazing. That's great. I love the sound effect. That's a great sound effect. The community rooms continue to be really engaged. We're still seeing hundreds of people in those rooms. So again shout out to everyone who is participating. And I felt again like a kid in a candy store didn't know which sessions to attend. They were all very interesting and you know, we're getting some good feedback on twitter. I want to read out some more tweets that we got and one in particular, I don't know whether to feel happy for this person or sad for this person, but it's uh well the initials are P. W. And he said that he was up at two am to watch the keynotes. So again, I'll let you decide whether you're it's a good thing or not, but we're happy to have you PW is awesome. Um as well. There was someone who said that these features are so needed. The things that dr announced this morning in the keynotes and that doctor has reacted to our pains and I think they mean has addressed their pain. So that was really gratifying to read. Yeah, really wonderful. That's some other countries that I didn't shout out before this just tells you what the breadth and scope of our community is. Indonesia, la paz Bolivia, Greece, Munich, Ukraine, oxford UK Australia Philippines. And there's just more and I'm going to do a special shadow to Montreal because that's where I'm from. So yes, applause for that. It was really great. And so I just want to thank all of you. Um, I want to encourage you when we talked about the power of community. Remember we're doing a fundraiser. So to combat Covid for Covid relief or actually all that money is going to go to UNICEF. Docker is contributing 10,000 and we're doing a go fund me. And the link is there on the screen. So please donate. You know, just $1. 1 person each of you donates $1. We would have raised over $22,000. So please please find it within you to contribute because again, our communities that are, that are the most effective are India and brazil, which are are very active doctor affinity. So please give back. I really appreciate that >>highlighted by the brazil. Yeah. >>You're going to brazil room and get them all to donate. Exactly. Um, also want to encourage, you know, if you're interested in participating in our, in our road map. Our public road map is on GIT hub. So it's get home dot com slash docker slash roadmap. And that's something that you can participate in and vote up features that you want to see. We love to get the community involved and participating in our, in our road map. So make sure to check that out. And I also want to note on that >>Hello can real quick. I'm sorry. Yeah, I talk about our road map all the time, but honestly folks out there are PMS are in their our ceo is in there that we do watch that. That is our roadmap is extremely, extremely important to us. So any features complaints, right, joining the conversation. That's a great way to get uh to interact with Docker in our products. Right. We we really highly valued the road map. Okay, back to your mama, sorry. >>Oh absolutely. And if you want to see us be even more responsive to what you need to participate in that road map discussion. That's really great. Um a couple of things coming up, just want to put the spotlight on. We have at 3 15 what's new with with desktop from our own ue cow. So I highly recommend that you attend that session and of course there's the Woman in tech live panel. So this is very exciting, moderated by yours truly and it has putting a spotlight on our women captains and our women developers. So that's very exciting. But I also hear that we're doing there's a session with jay frog coming up so peter, why don't you talk about that a little bit? >>Yeah, we have a session coming up from our partners from jay frog around devops patterns and anti patterns for continuous software updates. And another one that I'm extremely excited about is uh RM one talk from our very own Tony's from Docker. So if you have an M one and you're interested in multi arc architecture builds, check that out. It's gonna be a great, great talk. Um and then we have melissa McKay also from jay frog, talking about Docker and the container ecosystem and last but definitely not least. We'll check them all out there. Going to be great. But Brett is going to be doing I think the best panel that I'm gonna go watch and he made up a new word, it's called say this. I'm all about the trending new words today about this is gonna be awesome. Yeah. Yeah >>I'm going to have the battle bottle of the panels. >>Yeah. Yeah well mine's before years so we're not competing. So yeah we have we have two excellent panels in a row to finish off the day and just seven list is basically how to run, how can we run containers without managing servers? So it doesn't mean you don't actually have infrastructure just let's not manage service. Um Yeah and we we uh need to wrap it up and >>Uh before we do that I just want to um tell everyone that we actually have a promotion going on. So we um for those that sign up for a pro or team subscription, we're offering a 20% off so there's the U. R. L.. You can check out what the promotion is and this is for a new and returning users so you can use the promo code dr khan 21 all the information is on the website are really encourage you to check that out promotion for 20% off, join us for our panels. And we're doing a wrap up at five p.m. Where we'll have our own Ceo and that wrap up portion. Look forward to seeing there. All right, >>thank you too. All right everyone we'll see you on the next go around coming up next me and some other people awesome and Yeah. Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. >>Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. Is >>a really varied community. There's a lot of people with completely different backgrounds, completely different experience levels and completely different goals about how they want to use Docker. And I think that's really interesting. It's always easy to talk about the technology that I've used for so many years. I really love Doctor and I can find so many ways that it's useful and it's great to use in your day to day work clothes. I've >>used doctor for anything from um tracking airplanes with my son, which was a kind of cool project to more professional projects where we actually Built one of the first database as his services using docker even before it was 10 and I was released and we took it further and we start composing monitoring tools. We really start taking it to the next level. And we got to the point where I was trying to make everything in a container, I love to use >>doctor to make disposable project so I can download the project and it's been that up using Docker compose or something like that in a way that every developer that works in the project doesn't even need to know the underlying technology doesn't just need to run Docker compose up and the whole project is going to be up and running even if >>you're not using doctor and production, there are a lot of other ways that you can use doctor to make your life so much easier. As a developer, you can run your projects on your machine locally. Um as a tester you can actually launch test containers and be able to run um dependencies that your project requires. You can run real life versions so that um you're as close to production as possible. >>I was able to migrate most of the workloads from our on from uh to the cloud. Running complete IEDs inside a docker or running it or using it basically to replace their build scripts or using it to run not web applications but maybe compile c plus plus code or compile um projects that really just require some sort of consistency across their team, >>whether it be a web app or a database, I can control these all the same. That was really the power I saw within Doctors standardization and the portability >>doctor isn't the one that created containers uh and uh but it's the one that made it uh democratically possible, so everyone use it. And this effort has made the technology environment so much better for everyone that uses it, both for developers and for end users. So this >>past year has been quite interesting and I think we're all in the same boat here, so no one has, no one is an exception to this, but what we all learn from it is, you know, the community is very important and to lean on other people for help for assistance. >>Yeah, it's been really challenging of course, but I think the biggest and most obvious thing that I've learned both on a personal and a business perspective is just to be ready to adapt to change and don't be afraid of it either. I think it's worth noting that you should never really take it for granted that the paradigms of, you know, the world or technology or something like that aren't going to shift drastically and very, very quickly. >>I'm looking forward to what is coming down the pipe with doctor. What more are they going to throw our way in order to make our lives easier? >>It's very interesting to see the company grow and adapt the way it has. I mean it as well as the community, it's been very interesting to see, you know, how, you know, the return to develop our focus is now the main focus and I find that's very interesting because, you know, developers are the ones that really boost the doctor to where it is today. And if we keep on encouraging these developer innovation, we'll just see more tools being developed on top of Doctor in the future, and that's what I'm really excited to see with Doctor and the technology in the future.

>>Hey, everyone. I want to welcome you back. This is our intermission. And let me tell you what a morning we've had for those of you that don't know. I'm, Hayma Ganapati, I'm in product marketing at Docker. And I would just want to quote, actually someone who was in one of the chat rooms and this, I think encapsulates exactly how I feel today, because this is my first Docker con and the quote was from. And he said, I feel like a kid in an ice cream store where I don't know which flavor to choose. I want to go to all of the sessions and I got to tell you that's how I felt. And, you know, um, I want to just do some specific call-ups. Um, first of all, Dana way to keep it real in your interview. I love the cube interview. If you miss that, um, it was really great. >>She talks a lot about, uh, CI CD pipeline and you know, what to do with GoodHub. It was great. Um, I also want to say that I was, uh, slipping back and forth between the community rooms and way to go Brazil obrigado until all of the people who participate in the Brazil room, we had about 250 plus people in that room. And the, the chat window was just going crazy and in the French community room, Vive left hall. So if you've a uncle funny, uh, we had about 150 plus people in that room. So I just want to say that, you know, we've been seeing a lot of participation and I just want to thank everyone for attending and for participating on people have been so kind in the chat rooms, we just want to remind you to stay kind, you know, presenters put a lot of effort into their presentations, so just, you know, offer some positive and supportive critique to them. >>And the other thing I want to mention is all of the countries that we're seeing, all of the participation. So I'm just going to call out a few. We have people from the Netherlands, from Canada, from South Africa, Akron, Ohio, Belgium, Austria, yeah, Ecuador, New Zealand. And he cut up Westchester. Like, I mean, it just goes list goes on and on and on. And I think this really speaks to the power of Docker community. And it's a real testimony to how people from all over the world are in love with Docker technology and are excited to be here. And so I just wanted to thank everyone again and want to remind you that we want to leverage the power of community. And we have a fundraising campaign going on to help, uh, people who are affected by COVID. And you know, some of our big communities, especially in India and Brazil are, have been really affected by COVID. >>So we're asking you to contribute and we'd really like you to participate. Um, we have, uh, the, the link you can see here, Docker donates, you can tweet about it and would love to see the numbers go up for those donations, because, you know, I've personally been affected, had some family members pass away from COVID in India, and I'm sure other people may have stories that firsthand or secondhand. So please do that and let's show what the power of Docker community can do. And before I hand over to, to Peter, I'm just going to read out some of the tweets we've been getting, okay, this Brett and Peter, these are great. Uh, one of the, one of the tweets said dev environments is one of the most exciting features in the past few years. Super excited to try this out. Great, great, great tweet. Yeah. >>I agree to, um, another loving the content that was not your tweets. You can, you can slip me the 20 bucks later. Um, there's another tweet that says loving the content from hashtag Docker con so far fascinating use cases and interesting progress and future directions love that. And then there's another one I'm trying to find it here. Uh, I've been waiting for this so long Docker builds now work on Intel and M one. So keep those tweets coming. We love getting this kind of feedback and we love reading the chat room. So, um, Peter, you know, I attended your, your panel and I love that we were talking about a security and that moving, moving it left. So how did that go for you? >>Uh, it was, it was, uh, it was extremely fun. And for those that are, uh, I think my parents might be watching, so they probably watched it and were like, w this is the most boring thing I've ever seen, but, um, you know, you get a bunch of geeks and, uh, Brett has told me I should use geek instead of nerd, but I, I liked, uh, geek. So you get a bunch of geeks talking about security and coding and, um, what, what, what containers actually are, what vulnerabilities are. Yeah, it was, it was extremely fun. The panel was fantastic. They were very engaging the chat. I mean, I couldn't keep up with the chat. Right. It would just kept flying by, uh, luckily I had a helper to pull off questions, but, um, yeah, it's super exciting. You can, I know we're all remote, but you can just feel that energy, right. It was, it was great. It was great. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It's super >>Connected. I felt that with your panel to Brett as well, sorry to talk over you there, but yeah. How did, how did it go for you? I, there was a lot of engagement in your session. >>Uh, ditto, like it was just, uh, there was so many questions. We only got to get a fraction of them. I tried to pick themes because, uh, when you talk about continuous testing and integration and all the things that take a part of that, um, you, you end up with lots of, well, what I like is the discussion around opinions, because so much of these pipelines from code on your machine, into production and everything in between, it's really, uh, it's a culture. It turns out to be the description of your culture and how you all perceive testing, how you, what you value in testing. And so that really started to come out as a theme, um, throughout that show. And we, we ran at a time. I was also watching Peters and it was fantastic, but like you think an hour is enough time to cover a topic, but it's just tipping tip of the iceberg kind of stuff. So I think it was super helpful. I learned some things, um, I really enjoyed watching Peters and, uh, yeah, can't wait for the next one. There's >>More than that. And likewise, great. I mean, I know, I know we're w maybe we pat chose it, but it, it was, it was super exciting to watch your panel. They were very Nikos, one of my favorite people in the world, uh, a fellow Austinite, but, um, yeah, I love that too. How you, uh, you were talking about opinions right. And playing off each other. It's, it's always interesting to hear smart people, uh, how they think, right. Yeah. I learned from how they think, right. Yeah. A hundred percent. >>So, all right. So we're, we're, um, what's next? Like, we, we gotta keep this thing going, so I've got to remember that. >>I want to, so I want to talk a bit about some of the panels that are, or the sessions that are coming up and just want to remind people that happened this afternoon. I'm all about use cases. You know, I was a developer for many decades, and it's great to hear how other developers are using the tools. But, uh, as a developer, I always wanted to know how are, what are the end user applications? And so we have two exciting sessions at 1:00 PM. We have sneak and red ventures, and they're going to be talking about how they used Docker containers. The title of the, uh, uh, session is great. An ounce of prevention, curing, insecure, container images. So check that out. And we also have another one at one 30 with Massimo, from AWS and Dexter Legaspi from Sirius XM. And they're going to be talking about a real world application using Docker containers. So I really want you to, to encourage you to attend those. >>Yeah. Um, can I say one really quick? Cause I'm Sue and a shout out to Eric Smalling. He's giving the red ventures talk with our partners. He's awesome. Go check out his, uh, but I'm really excited about Matt. Jarvis's sneak talk around. Uh, I think we might've talked about it earlier. My container image has 500 vulnerabilities vulnerabilities now what, right. I mean, I think as developers, as we're coming into this and dev ops and everybody right. You scan and then you see all these vulnerabilities just shoot by. And you're like, well, what do I do? So Matt, Matt will be addressing that. And he is fantastic. I can go on. There's a bunch of them. >>Yeah. There's a whole bunch of coming up and right up after this, I'm on a live stream with a bunch of panels on get ops. And then after that, Peter will be back. And so stay tuned and thanks for watching during the intermission. And we'll see you soon. >>I'm also leading the women in tech panel attend that. Don't forget to do that. >>Absolutely. Yep. All right. Ciao. Ciao >>For me like my first, oh, I get it about Docker was when I used a SQL server container on my neck book for the first time >>Being able to install Docker desktop, which was the first thing that I did and be able to build this without worrying about any of my software versions that I currently had on my machine. It was >>Awesome. One of the things, because I love the most about Docker is because I write books and I do video training courses to help a lot of people take their first steps with Docker and containers and to get a connection with those people and for them to come back to me and say, do you know what this is so cool, so easy, and it's going to change both my job. And, but also my organization, my team, all of that kind of stuff, change the experience that our customers have with our applications and what our business really puts a smile on my face. If >>You want to use containers, then Docker is the first toys, especially with tools like the mark Docker, compose, you can, uh, easily do your day-to-day job as a developer, or even if you're an ops person, then there are the books of the cloud and other things. So yeah, the idea is that we can go the simplicity one simple task, uh, to, uh, Daugherty mate and make that reuse as many times. Uh, that is one of the cool things I like about my >>Favorite part about Docker is using it as a developer tool. I using Docker desktop, really easy to install, really easy to run. >>Every time I come back to DACA, I love the simplicity of the way that it works, especially on things like security, which I find frustrating and hard. It's just done so seamlessly. And so my favorite thing about DACA is not just that it changed the world in the way that we develop in and ship and build applications and put that. It's just so easy that even the guy, like, I think >>It really is all about finding that aha moment, that hook where Docker really makes sense to you because once you have that moment, then all of a sudden, you, you know, you are on your way to being a Docker power user. >>We need for people to understand this technology better before they can, uh, actually dive deep into that. And Docker makes it easier to explain things, to explain the concept of containers, to explain how containers will work, how you can split your environments, how you can, uh, standardize all your pipelines and so on. It's important that we also take the time to help other people. And I think it's very important that we also give back and that's part of the motto of open sources. How do we give back to other people and how we help other people learn? And I think that's what I'm really passionate about. This whole thing is continuing, uh, giving back to the community. I just >>Hope and has fun at Docker con. And I know that there's a lot of great speakers coming and I will be watching the talks, even though they're happening at 3:00 AM and in my local time zone, um, I'm pretty excited to watch and, uh, hopefully watch more than later on streaming or YouTube or wherever they're going to be. So I hope everyone has fun and learn something and yeah, I don't see how you couldn't have fun.

>>and hello, we're back. I've got my panel and we are doing things real time here. So sorry for the delay a few minutes late. So the way let's talk about things, the reason we're here and we're going around the room and introduce everybody. Got three special guests here. I got my evil or my john and the normal And we're going to talk about get ops I called it future office just because I want to think about what's the next thing for that at the end, we're gonna talk about what our ideas for what's next for getups, right? Um, because we're all starting to just get into get ups now. But of course a lot of us are always thinking about what's next? What's better? How can we make this thing better? So we're going to take your questions. That's the reason we're here, is to take your questions and answer them. Or at least the best we can for the next hour. And all right, so let's go around the room and introduce yourself. My name is Brett. I am streaming from Brett from that. From Brett. From Virginia Beach in Virginia beach, Virginia, United States. Um, and I talk about things on the internet, I sell courses on you, to me that talk about Docker and kubernetes Ive or introduce yourself. >>How's it going? Everyone, I'm a software engineer at axel Springer, currently based in Berlin and I happen to be Brett Brett's teaching assistant. >>All right, that's right. We're in, we're in our courses together almost every day. Mm john >>hey everyone, my name is john Harris, I used to work at Dhaka um, I now work at VM ware is a star field engineer. Um, so yeah, >>and normal >>awesome by the way, you are streaming from Brett Brett, >>I answered from breath to breath. >>Um I'm normal method. I'm a distinguished engineer with booz allen and I'm also a doctor captain and it's good to see either in person and it's good to see you again john it's been a little while. >>It has the pre covid times, right? You're up here in Seattle. >>Yeah. It feels, it feels like an eternity ago. >>Yeah, john shirt looks red and reminds me of the Austin T shirt. So I was like, yeah, so we all, we all have like this old limited edition doctor on E. >>T. That's a, that's a classic. >>Yeah, I scored that one last year. Sometimes with these old conference church, you have to like go into people's closets. I'm not saying I did that. Um, but you know, you have to go steal stuff, you to find ways to get the swag >>post post covid. If you ever come to my place, I'm going to have to lock the closets. That >>that's right, That's right. >>So the second I think it was the second floor of the doctor HQ in SAn Francisco was where they kept all the T shirts, just boxes and boxes and boxes floor to ceiling. So every time I went to HQ you just you just as many as you can fit in your luggage. I think I have about 10 of these. You >>bring an extra piece of luggage just for your your shirt shirt grab. Um All right, so I'm going to start scanning questions uh so that you don't have to you can you help you all are welcome to do that. And I'm going to start us off with the topic. Um So let's just define the parameters. Like we can talk about anything devops and here we can go down and plenty of rabbit holes. But the kind of, the goal here is to talk about get ups and get ups if you haven't heard about it is essentially uh using versioning systems like get like we've all been getting used to as developers to track your infrastructure changes, not just your code changes and then automate that with a bunch of tooling so that the robots take over. And essentially you have get as a central source of truth and then get log as a central source of history and then there's a bunch of magic little bits in the middle and then supposedly everything is wonderful. It's all automatic. The reality is is what it's often quite messy, quite tricky to get everything working. And uh the edges of this are not perfect. Um so it is a relatively new thing. It's probably three, maybe four years old as an official thing from. We've uh so we're gonna get into it and I'll let's go around the room and the same word we did before and um not to push on that, put you on the spot or anything. But what is, what is one of the things you either like or either hate about getups um that you've enjoyed either using it or you know, whatever for me. I really, I really love that I can point people to a repo that basically is hopefully if they look at the log a tracking, simplistic tracking of what might have changed in that part of the world or the environment. I remember many years past where, you know, I've had executive or some mid level manager wants to see what the changes were or someone outside my team went to see what we just changed. It was okay, they need access to this system into that dashboard and that spreadsheet and then this thing and it was always so complicated and now in a world where if we're using get up orbit bucket or whatever where you can just say, hey go look at that repo if there was three commits today, probably three changes happened. That's I love that particular part about it. Of course it's always more complicated than that. But um Ive or I know you've been getting into this stuff recently. So um any thoughts? Yeah, I think >>my favorite part about get ops is >>reproducibility. Um >>you know the ability to just test something and get it up and running >>and then just tear it down. >>Uh not >>being worried that how did I configure it the first time? I think that's my favorite part about >>it. I'm changing your background as we do this. >>I was going to say, did you just do it get ups pushed to like change his >>background, just a dialogue that different for that green screen equals false? Uh Change the background. Yeah, I mean, um and I mean I think last year was really my first year of actually using it on anything significant, like a real project. Um so I'm still, I still feel like I'm very new to john you anything. >>Yeah, it's weird getups is that thing which kind of crystallizes maybe better than anything else, the grizzled veteran life cycle of emotions with the technology because I think it's easy to get super excited about something new. And when I first looked into get up, so I think this is even before it was probably called getups, we were looking at like how to use guest source of truth, like everything sounds great, right? You're like, wait, get everyone knows, get gets the source of truth, There's a load of robust tooling. This just makes a sense. If everything dies, we can just apply the get again, that would be great. Um and then you go through like the trough of despair, right? We're like, oh no, none of this works. The application is super stateless if this doesn't work and what do we do with secrets and how do we do this? Like how do we get people access in the right place and then you realize everything is terrible again and then everything it equalizes and you're kind of, I think, you know, it sounds great on paper and they were absolutely fantastic things about it, but I think just having that measured approach to it, like it's, you know, I think when you put it best in the beginning where you do a and then there's a magic and then you get C. Right, like it's the magic, which is >>the magic is the mystery, >>right? >>Magic can be good and bad and in text so >>very much so yeah, so um concurrence with with john and ever uh in terms of what I like about it is the potential to apply it to moving security to left and getting closer to a more stable infrastructures code with respect to the whole entire environment. Um And uh and that reconciliation loop, it reminds me of what, what is old is new again? Right? Well, quote unquote old um in terms of like chef and puppet and that the reconciliation loop applied in a in a more uh in a cleaner interface and and into the infrastructure that we're kind of used to already, once you start really digging into kubernetes what I don't like and just this is in concurrence with the other Panelist is it's relatively new. It has um, so it has a learning curve and it's still being, you know, it's a very active um environment and community and that means that things are changing and constantly and there's like new ways and new patterns as people are exploring how to use it. And I think that trough of despair is typically figuring out incrementally what it actually is doing for you and what it's not going to solve for you, right, john, so like that's that trough of despair for a bit and then you realize, okay, this is where it fits potentially in my architecture and like anything, you have to make that trade off and you have to make that decision and accept the trade offs for that. But I think it has a lot of promise for, for compliance and security and all that good stuff. >>Yeah. It's like it's like the potentials, there's still a lot more potential than there is uh reality right now. I think it's like I feel like we're very early days and the idea of especially when you start getting into tooling that doesn't appreciate getups like you're using to get up to and use something else and that tool has no awareness of the concept so it doesn't flow well with all of the things you're trying to do and get um uh things that aren't state based and all that. So this is going to lead me to our first question from Camden asking dumb questions by the way. No dumb questions here. Um How is get apps? Not just another name for C. D. Anybody want to take that as an answer as a question. How is get up is not just another name for C. D. I have things but we can talk about it. I >>feel like we need victor foster kids. Yeah, sure you would have opinions. Yeah, >>I think it's a very yeah. One person replied said it's a very specific it's an opinionated version of cd. That's a great that's a great answer like that. Yeah. >>It's like an implement. Its it's an implementation of deployment if you want it if you want to use it for that. All right. I realize now it's kind of hard in terms of a physical panel and a virtual panel to figure out who on the panel is gonna, you know, ready to jump in to answer a question. But I'll take it. So um I'll um I'll do my best inner victor and say, you know, it's it's an implementation of C. D. And it's it's a choice right? It's one can just still do docker build and darker pushes and doctor pulls and that's fine. Or use other technologies to deploy containers and pods and change your, your kubernetes infrastructure. But get apps is a different implementation, a different method of doing that same thing at the end of the day. Yeah, >>I like it. I like >>it and I think that goes back to your point about, you know, it's kind of early days still, I think to me what I like about getups in that respect is it's nice to see kubernetes become a platform where people are experimenting with different ways of doing things, right? And so I think that encourages like lots of different patterns and overall that's going to be a good thing for the community because then more, you know, and not everything needs to settle in terms of only one way of doing things, but a lot of different ways of doing things helps people fit, you know, the tooling to their needs, or helps fit kubernetes to their needs, etcetera. Yeah, >>um I agree with that, the, so I'm gonna, since we're getting a load of good questions, so um one of the, one of the, one of the, I want to add to that real quick that one of the uh from the, we've people themselves, because I've had some on the show and one of things that I look at it is distinguishing is with continuous deployment tools, I sort of think that it's almost like previous generation and uh continuous deployment tools can be anything like we would consider Jenkins cd, right, if you if you had an association to a server and do a doctor pull and you know, dr up or dr composed up rather, or if it did a cube control apply uh from you know inside an ssh tunnel or something like that was considered considered C. D. Well get ops is much more rigid I think in terms of um you you need to apply, you have a specific repo that's all about your deployments and because of what tool you're using and that one your commit to a specific repo or in a specific branch that repo depends on how you're setting it up. That is what kicks off a workflow. And then secondly there's an understanding of state. So a lot of these tools now I have uh reconciliation where they they look at the cluster and if things are changing they will actually go back and to get and the robots will take over and will commit that. Hey this thing has changed um and you maybe you human didn't change it, something else might have changed it. So I think that's where getups is approaching it, is that ah we we need to we need to consider more than just a couple of commands that be runnin in a script. Like there needs to be more than that for a getups repo to happen anyway, that's just kind of the the take back to take away I took from a previous conversation with some people um >>we've I don't think that lost, its the last piece is really important, right? I think like for me, C d like Ci cd, they're more philosophical ideas, write a set of principles, right? Like getting an idea or a code change to environments promoting it. It's very kind of pipeline driven um and it's very imperative driven, right? Like our existing CD tools are a lot of the ways that people think about Cd, it would be triggered by an event, maybe a code push and then these other things are happening in sequence until they either fail or pass, right? And then we're done. Getups is very much sitting on the, you know, the reconciliation side, it's changing to a pull based model of reconciliation, right? Like it's very declarative, it's just looking at the state and it's automatically pulling changes when they happen, rather than this imperative trigger driven model. That's not to say that there aren't city tools which we're doing pull based or you can do pull based or get ups is doing anything creatively revolutionary here, but I think that's one of the main things that the ideas that are being introduced into those, like existing C kind of tools and pipelines, um certainly the pull based model and the reconciliation model, which, you know, has a lot in common with kubernetes and how those kind of controllers work, but I think that's the key idea. Yeah. >>Um This is a pretty specific one Tory asks, does anyone have opinions about get ops in a mono repo this is like this is getting into religion a little bit. How many repos are too many repose? How um any thoughts on that? Anyone before I rant, >>go >>for it, go for it? >>Yeah. How I'm using it right now in a monitor repo uh So I'm using GIT hub. Right, so you have what? The workflow and then inside a workflow? Yeah, mo file, I'll >>track the >>actual changes to the workflow itself, as well as a folder, which is basically some sort of service in Amman Arepa, so if any of those things changes, it'll trigger the actual pipeline to run. So that's like the simplest thing that I could figure out how to, you know, get it set up using um get hubs, uh workflow path future. Yeah. And it's worked for me for writing, you know? That's Yeah. >>Yeah, the a lot of these things too, like the mono repo discussion will, it's very tool specific. Each tool has various levels of support for branch branching and different repos and subdirectories are are looking at the defense and to see if there's changes in that specific directory. Yeah. Sorry, um john you're going to say something, >>I was just going to say, I've never really done it, but I imagine the same kind of downsides of mono repo to multiple report would exist there. I mean, you've got the blast radius issues, you've got, you know, how big is the mono repo? Do we have to pull does the tool have to pull that or cashier every time it needs to determine def so what is the support for being able to just look at directories versus you know, I think we can get way down into a deeper conversation. Maybe we'll save it for later on in the conversation about what we're doing. Get up, how do we structure our get reposed? We have super granular repo per environment, Perper out reaper, per cluster repo per whatever or do we have directories per environment or branches per environment? How how is everything organized? I think it's you know, it's going to be one of those, there's never one size fits all. I'll give the class of consultant like it depends answer. Right? >>Yeah, for sure. It's very similar to the code struggle because it depends. >>Right? >>Uh Yeah, it's similar to the to the code problem of teams trying to figure out how many repose for their code. Should they micro service, should they? Semi micro service, macro service. Like I mean, you know because too many repose means you're doing a bunch of repo management, a bunch of changes on your local system, you're constantly get pulling all these different things and uh but if you have one big repo then it's it's a it's a huge monolithic thing that you usually have to deal with. Path based issues of tools that only need to look at a specific directory and um yeah, it's a it's a culture, I feel like yeah, like I keep going back to this, it's a culture thing. Does your what is your team prefer? What do you like? What um what's painful for everyone and who's what's the loudest pain that you need to deal with? Is it is it repo management? That's the pain um or is it uh you know, is that that everyone's in one place and it's really hard to keep too many cooks out of the kitchen, which is a mono repo problem, you know? Um How do we handle security? So this is a great one from Tory again. Another great question back to back. And that's the first time we've done that um security as it pertains to get up to anyone who can commit can change the infrastructure. Yes. >>Yes. So the tooling that you have for your GIT repo and the authentication, authorization and permissions that you apply to the GIT repo using a get server like GIT hub or get lab or whatever your flavor of the day is is going to be how security is handled with respect to changes in your get ups configuration repository. So um that is completely specific to your implementation of that or ones implementation of of how they're handling that. Get repositories that the get ups tooling is looking at. To reconcile changes with respect to the permissions of the for lack of better term robot itself. Right? They get up tooling like flux or Argosy. D Um one kid would would create a user or a service account or uh other kind of authentication measures to limit the permissions for that service account that the Gaddafi's tooling needs to be able to read the repose and and send commits etcetera. So that is well within the realm of what you have already for your for your get your get um repo. Yeah. >>Yeah. A related question is from a g what they like about get apps if done nicely for a newbie it's you can get stuff done easily if you what they dislike about it is when you have too many get repose it becomes just too complicated and I agree. Um was making a joke with a team the other week that you know the developer used to just make one commit and they would pass pass it on to a QA team that would then eventually emerging in the master. But they made the commits to these feature branches or whatever. But now they make a commit, they make a pR there for their code then they go make a PR in the helm chart to update the thing to do that and then they go make a PR in the get ups repeal for Argo. And so we talked about that they're probably like four or five P. R. Is just to get their code in the production. But we were talking about the negative of that but the reality was It's just five or 4 or five prs like it wasn't five different systems that had five different methodologies and tooling and that. So I looked at it I was like well yeah that's kind of a pain in the get sense but you're also dealing with one type. It's a repetitive action but it's it's the one thing I don't have to go to five different systems with five different ways of doing it. And once in the web and one's on the client wants a command line that I don't remember. Um Yeah so it's got pros and cons I think when you >>I think when you get to the scale where those kind of issues are a problem then you're probably at the scale where you can afford to invest some time into automation into that. Right? Like what I've when I've seen this in larger customers or larger organizations if there ever at that stage where okay apps are coming up all the time. You know, there's a 10 X 100 X developer to operations folks who may be creating get repose setting up permissions then that stuff gets automated, right? Like, you know, maybe ticket based systems or whatever. Developers say I need a new app. It templates things or more often using the same model, right of reconciliation and operators and the horrific abuse of cogs that we're seeing in the communities community right now. Um You know, developers can create a crd which just says, hey, I'm creating a new app is called app A and then a controller will pick up that app a definition. It will go create a get a repo Programmatically it will add the right definitely will look up and held up the developers and the permissions that need to be able to get to that repo it will create and template automatically some name space and the clusters that it needs in the environments that it needs, depending on, you know, some metadata it might read. So I think, you know, those are definite problems and they're definitely like a teething, growing pain thing. But once you get to that scale, you kind of need to step back and say, well look, we just need to invest in time into the operational aspect of this and automating this pain away, I think. Yeah, >>yeah. And that ultimately ends in Yeah. Custom tooling, which it's hard to avoid it at scale. I mean, there's there's two, there's almost two conversations here, right. There is what I call the Solo admin Solo devops, I bought that domain Solo devops dot com because, you know, whenever I'm talking to dr khan in the real world, it's like I asked people to raise hands, I don't know how we can raise hands here, but I would ask people to raise hands and see how many of you here are. The sole person responsible for deploying the app that your team makes and like a quarter of the room would raise their hand. So I call that solo devops like those, that person can't make all the custom tooling in the world. So they really need dr like solutions where it's opinionated, the workflow is sort of built in and they don't have to wrangle things together with a bunch of glue, you know, in other words bash. Um and so this kind of comes to a conversation uh starting this question from lee he's asking how do you combine get ops with ci cd, especially the continuous bit. How do you avoid having a human uh sort of the complaint the team I was working with has, how do you avoid a human editing and get committing for every single deploy? They've settled on customized templates and a script for routine updates. So as a seed for this conference, this question I'm gonna ask you all uh instead of that specific question cause it's a little open ended. Um Tell me whether you agree with this. I I kind of look at the image, the image artifact because the doctor image or container image in general is an artifact that I I view it that way and that thing going into the registry with the right label or right part of the label. Um That tag rather not the label but the tag that to me is like one of the great demarche points of, we're kind of done with Ci and we're now into the deployment phase and it doesn't necessarily mean the tooling is a clear cut there, but that artifact being shipped in a specific way or promoted as we sometimes say. Um what do you think? Does anyone have opinions on that? I don't even know if that's the right opinion to have so mhm. >>So um I think what you're, what you're getting at is that get ups, models can trigger off of different events um to trigger the reconciliation loop. And one way to do that is if the image, if it notices a image change in the registry, the other is if there's a commit event on a specific rebo and branch and it's up to, you are up to the person that's implementing their get ups model, what event to trigger there, that reconciliation loop off of, You can do both, you can do one or the other. It also depends on the Templeton engine that you're using on top of um on top of kubernetes, such as helm or um you know, the other ones that are out there or if you're not even doing that, then, you know straight. Yeah, mo um so it kind of just depends, but those are the typically the two options one has and a combination of of those to trigger that event. You can also just trigger it manually, right? You can go into the command line and force a a, you know, a really like a scan or a new reconciliation loop to occur. So it kind of just, I don't want to say this, but it depends on what you're trying to do and what makes sense in your pipeline. Right? So if you're if you're set up where you are tag, if you're doing it based off of image tags, then you probably want to use get ups in a way that you're using the image tags. Right. And the pattern that you've established there, if you're not really doing that and you're more around, like, different branches are mapped to different environments, then triggered off of the correct branch. And that's where the permissions also come into play. Where if you don't want someone to touch production and you've got your getups for your production cluster based off of like uh you know, a main branch, then whoever can push a change to that main branch has the authority to push that change to production. Right? So that's your authentication and permissions um system same for the registry itself. Right. So >>Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, anyone else have any thoughts on that? I was about to go to the next topic, >>I was going to say. I think certain tools dictate the approach, like, if you're using Argosy d it's I think I'm correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the only way to use it right now is just through image modification. Like, the manifest changes, it looks at a specific directory and anything changes then it will do its thing. And uh Synchronize the cost there with whatever's and get >>Yeah, flux has both. Yeah, and flux has both. So it it kind of depends. I think you can make our go do that too, but uh this is back to what we were saying in the beginning, uh you know, these things are changing, right? So that might be what it is right now in terms of triggering the reconciliation loops and get ups, tooling, but there might be other events in the future that might trigger it, and it's not completely stand alone because you still need you're tooling to do any kind of testing or whatever you have in terms of like the specific pipeline. So oftentimes you're bolting in getups into some other part of broader Cfd solution. That makes sense. Yeah, >>we've got a lot of questions about secrets or people that are asking about secrets. >>So my my tongue and cheek answered the secrets question was, what's the best practices for kubernetes? Secrets? That's the same thing for secrets with good apps? Uh getups is not last time I checked and last time I was running this stuff get ups is not has nothing to do with secrets in that sense. It's just there to get your stuff running on communities. So, um there's probably a really good session on secrets at dr concept. I >>would agree with you, I agree with you. Yeah, I mean, get off stools, I mean every every project of mine handles secrets differently. Uh huh. And I think I'm not sure if it was even when I was talking to but talking to someone recently that I'm very bullish on get up actions, I love get up actions, it's not great for deployments yet, but we do have this new thing and get hub environments, I think it's called. So it allows me at least the store secrets per environment, which it didn't have the concept of that before, which you know, if you if any of you running kubernetes out there, you typically end up when you start running kubernetes, you end up with more than one kubernetes, like you're going to end up with a lot of clusters at some point, at least many multiple, more than two. Um and so if you're trying to store secret somewhere, you do have and there's a discussion happening in chat right now where people are talking about um sealed secrets which if you haven't heard of that, go look that up and just be versed on what sealed secrets is because it's a it's a fantastic concept for how to store secrets in the public. Um I love it because I'm a big P. K. I nerd but um it's not the only way and it doesn't fit all models. So I have clients that use A W. S. Secrets because they're in A W. S. And then they just have to use the kubernetes external secret. But again like like like normal sand, you know, it's that doesn't really affect get ops, get ops is just applying whatever helm charts or jahmal or images that you're, you're you're deploying, get off. It was more about the approach of when the changes happen and whether it's a push or pull model like we're talking about and you know, >>I would say there's a bunch of prerequisites to get ups secrets being one of them because the risk of you putting a secret into your git repo if you haven't figured out your community secrets architecture and start diving into getups is high and removing secrets from get repose is you know, could be its own industry, right. It's >>a thing, >>how do >>I hide this? How do I obscure this commit that's already now on a dozen machines. >>So there are some prerequisites in terms of when you're ready to adopt get up. So I think is the right way of saying the answer to that secrets being one of them. >>I think the secrets was the thing that made me, you know, like two or three years ago made me kind of see the ah ha moment when it came to get ups which, which was that the premier thing that everyone used to say about get up about why it was great. Was its the single source of truth. There's no state anywhere else. You just need to look at git. Um and then secrets may be realized along with a bunch of other things down the line that is not true and will never be true. So as soon as you can lose the dogmatism about everything is going to be and get it's fantastic. As long as you've understood everything is not going to get. There are things which will absolutely never be and get some tools just don't deal with that. They need to earn their own state, especially in communities, some controls on their own state. You know, cuz sealed secrets and and other projects like SOps and I think there are two or three others. That's a great way of dealing with secrets if you want to keep them in get. But you know, projects like vault more kind of like what I would say, production grade secret strategies. Right? And if you're in AWS or a cloud, you're more likely to be using their secrets. Your secret policy is maybe not dictated by you in large organizations might be dictated by CSO or security or Great. Like I think once if you, if you're trying to adopt getups or you're thinking about it, get the dogmatism of get as a single point of truth out of your mind and think about getups more as a philosophy and a set of best practice principles, then you will be in much better stead, >>right? Yeah. >>People are asking more questions in chat like infrastructure as code plus C d essentially get ups or C I rather, um, these are all great questions and a part of the debate, I'm actually just going to throw up on screen. I'm gonna put this in chat, but this is, this is to me the source, Right? So we worked with when they coined the term. We, a lot of us have been trying to get, if we talk about the history for a minute and then tell me if I'm getting this right. Um, a lot of us were trying to automate all these different parts of the puzzle, but a lot of them, they, some things might have been infrastructure as code. Some things weren't, some things were sort of like settings is coded, like you're going to Jenkins and type in secrets and settings or type in a certain thing in the settings of Jenkins and then that it wasn't really in get and so what we was trying to go for was a way to have almost like eventually a two way state understanding where get might change your infrastructure but then your infrastructure might also change and needs to be reflected in the get if the get is trying to be the single source of truth. Um and like you're saying the reality is that you're never gonna have one repo that has all of your infrastructure in it, like you would have to have, you have to have all your terra form, anything else you're spinning up. Right. Um but anyway, I'm gonna put this link in chat. So this guide actually, uh one of things they talk about is what it's not, so it's, it's kind of great to read through the different requirements and like what I was saying well ago um mhm. Having having ci having infrastructure as code and then trying a little bit of continuous deployment out, it's probably a prerequisite. Forget ops so it's hard to just jump into that when you don't already have infrastructure as code because a machine doing stuff on your behalf, it means that you have to have things documented and somewhere and get repo but let me put this in the in the >>chitty chat, I would like to know if the other panelists agree, but I think get apps is a okay. I would say it's a moderate level, it's not a beginner level communities thing, it's like a moderate level advanced, a little bit more advanced level. Um One can start off using it but you definitely have to have some pre recs in place or some understanding of like a pattern in place. Um So what do the other folks think about that opinion? >>I think if you're if you're trying to use get out before, you know what problem you have, you're probably gonna be in trouble. Right. It's like having a solution to it probably don't have yet. Mhm. Right. I mean if if you're just evil or and you're just typing, keep control apply, you're one person right, Get off. It doesn't seem like a big a big jump, like, I mean it doesn't like why would I do that? I'm just, I'm just gonna inside, it's the type of get commit right, I'm typing Q control apply. But I think one of the rules from we've is none of your developers and none of your admins can have cute control access to the cluster because if you can't, if you do have access and you can just apply something, then that's just infrastructure as code. That's just continuous deployment, that's, that's not really get ops um, getups implies that the only way things get into the cluster is through the get up, get automation that you're using with, you know, flux Argo, we haven't talked about, what's the other one that Victor Farsi talks about, by the way people are asking about victor, because victor would love to talk about this stuff, but he's in my next life, so come back in an hour and a half or whatever and victor is going to be talking about sys, admin list with me. Um >>you gotta ask him nothing but get up questions in the next, >>confuse them, confuse them. But anyway, that, that, that's um, it's hard, it's hard to understand and without having tried it, I think conceptually it's a little challenging >>one thing with getups, especially based off the we've works blog post that you just put up on there. It's an opinionated way of doing something. Uh you know, it's an opinionated way of of delivering changes to an environment to your kubernetes environment. So it's opinionated were often not used to seeing things that are very opinionated in this sense, in the in the ecosystem, but get apps is a opinionated thing. It's it's one way of doing it. Um there are ways to change it and like there are options um like what we were talking about in terms of the events that trigger, but the way that it's structured is an opinion opinionated way both from like a tooling perspective, like using get etcetera, but also from a devops cultural perspective, right? Like you were talking about not having anyone access cube control and changing the cluster directly. That's a philosophical opinion that get ups forces you to adopt otherwise. It kind of breaks the model and um I just I want everyone to just understand that. That is very opinion, anything in that sense. Yeah, >>polygamy is another thing. Infrastructure as code. Um someone's mentioning plummy and chat, I just had actually my life show self plug bread that live go there. I'm on Youtube every week. I did the same thing. These these are my friends um and had palami on two weeks ago uh last week, remember uh and it was in the last couple of weeks and we talked about their infrastructure as code solution. Were actually writing code instead of um oh that's an interesting take on uh developer team sort of owning coding the infrastructure through code rather than Yamil as a data language. I don't really have an opinion on it yet because I haven't used it in production or anything in the real real world, but um, I'm not sure how much they are applying trying to go towards the get up stuff. I will do a plug for Solomon hikes. Who has a, the beginning of the day, it's already happened so you can go back and watch it. It's a, it's a, what's it called? Q. Rethinking application delivery with Q. And build kit. So go look this up. This is the found co founder of Dr and former CTO Solomon hikes at the beginning of the day. He has a tool called dagger. I'm not sure why the title of the talk is delivering with Q. And built it, but the tool is showing off in there for an hour is called dagger. And it's, it's an interesting idea on how to apply a lot of this opinionated automated stuff to uh, to deployment and it's get off space and you use Q language. It's a graph language. I watched most of it and it was a really interesting take. I'm excited to see if that takes off and if they try that because it's another way that you can get a little bit more advanced with your you're get deployments and without having to just stick everything in Yemen, which is kind of what we're in today with helm charts and what not. All right. More questions about secrets, I think. I think we're not going to have a whole lot of more, a lot more about secrets basically. Uh put secrets in your cluster to start with and kubernetes in encrypted, you know, thing. And then, you know, as it gets harder, then you have to find another solution when you have five clusters, you don't wanna have to do it five times. That's when you have to go for Walton A W. S secrets and all >>that. Right? I'm gonna post it note. Yeah. Crm into the cluster. Just kidding. >>Yes, there are recordings of this. Yes, they will be later. Uh, because we're that these are all gonna be on youtube later. Um, yeah, detects secrets cushion saying detect secrets or get Guardian are absolute requirements. I think it's in reference to your secrets comment earlier. Um, Camels asking about Cuban is dropping support for Docker that this is not the place to ask for that, but it, it is uh, basically it's a Nonevent Marantz has actually just created that same plug in available in a different repos. So if you want to keep using Docker and kubernetes, you know, you can do it like it's no big deal. Most of us aren't using doctor in our communities anyway, so we're using like container D or whatever is provided to us by our provider. Um yeah, thank you so much for all these comments. These are great people helping each other and chat. I feel like we're just here to make sure the chats available so people can help each other. >>I feel like I want to pick up on something when you mentioned pollux me, I think there's a um we're talking about getups but I think in the original like the origination of that I guess was deploying applications to clusters right, picking up deployment manifest. But I think with the gloomy and I obviously terra form and things have been around a long time, folks are starting to apply this I think I found one earlier which was like um kub stack the Terror Forms get ups framework. Um but also with the advent of things like cluster A. P. I. Um in the Cuban at the space where you can declare actively build the infrastructure for your clusters and build the cluster right? We're not just talking about deploying applications, the cluster A. P. I will talk to a W. S. Spin up, VPc spin up machines, you know, we'll do the same kind of things that terra form does and and those other tools do I think applying getups principles to the infrastructure spin up right, the proper infrastructure as code stuff, constantly applying Terror form um you know, plans and whatever, constantly applying cluster Api resources spinning up stuff in those clouds. That's a super interesting. Um you know, extension of this area, I'd be curious to see if what the folks think about that. >>Yeah, that's why I picked this topic is one of my three. Uh I got I got to pick the topics. I was like the three things that there like the most bleeding edge exciting. Most people haven't, we haven't basically we haven't figured all this out yet. We as an industry, so um it's I think we're gonna see more ideas on it. Um what's the one with the popsicle as the as the icon victor talks about all the time? It's not it's another getups like tool, but it's um it's getups for you use this kubernetes limit and then we have to look it up, >>You're talking about cross plane. >>So >>my >>wife is over here with the sound effects and the first sound effect of the day that she chooses to use is one. >>All right, can we pick it? Let's let's find another question bret >>I'm searching >>so many of them. All right, so uh I think one really quick one is getups only for kubernetes, I think the main to tooling to tools that we're talking about, our Argosy D and flux and they're mostly geared toward kubernetes deployments but there's a, it seems like they're organized in a way that there's a clean abstraction in with respect to the agent that's doing the deployment and the tooling that that can interact with. So I would imagine that in the future and this might be true already right now that get ups could be applied to other types of deployments at some point in the future. But right now it's mostly focused and treats kubernetes as a first class citizen or the tooling on top of kubernetes, let's say something like how as a first class citizen? Yeah, to Brett, >>to me the field, back to you bret the thing I was looking for is cross plane. So that's another tool. Um Victor has been uh sharing a lot about it in Youtube cross plane and that is basically runs inside a kubernetes, but it handles your other infrastructure besides your app. It allows you to like get ops, you're a W. S stuff by using the kubernetes state engine as a, as a way to manage that. And I have not used it yet, but he does some really great demos on Youtube. So people are liking this idea of get off, so they're trying to figure out how do we, how do we manage state? How do we uh because the probably terra form is that, well, there's many problems, but it's always a lot of problems, but in the get outs world it's not quite the right fit yet, It might be, but you still, it's still largely as expected for people to, you know, like type the command, um, and it keeps state locally the ss, clouds and all that. And but the other thing is I'm I'm now realizing that when I saw the demo from Solomon, I'm going back to the Solomon hikes thing. He was using the demo and he was showing it apply deploying something on S three buckets, employing internet wifi and deploying it on google other things beyond kubernetes and saying that it's all getups approach. So I think we're just at the very beginning of seeing because it all started with kubernetes and now there's a swarm one, you can look up swarm, get office and there's a swarm, I can't take the name of it. Swarm sink I think is what's called swarm sink on git hub, which allows you to do swarm based getups like things. And now we're seeing these other tools coming out. They're saying we're going to try to do the get ups concepts, but not for kubernetes specifically and that's I think, you know, infrastructure as code started with certain areas of the world and then now then now we all just assume that you're going to have an infrastructure as code way of doing whatever that is and I think get off is going to have that same approach where pretty soon, you know, we'll have get apps for all the clouds stuff and it won't just be flexor Argo. And then that's the weird thing is will flex and Argo support all those things or will it just be focused on kubernetes apps? You know, community stuff? >>There's also, I think this is what you're alluding to. There is a trend of using um kubernetes and see rDS to provision and control things that are outside of communities like the cloud service providers services as if they were first class entities within kubernetes so that you can use the kubernetes um focus tooling for things that are not communities through the kubernetes interface communities. Yeah, >>yeah, even criticism. >>Yeah, yeah, I'm just going to say that sounds like cross plane. >>Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think that's that's uh there were, you know, for the last couple of years, it's been flux and are going back and forth. Um they're like frenemies, you know, and they've been going back and forth with iterating on these ideas of how do we manage this complicated thing? That is many kubernetes clusters? Um because like Argo, I don't know if the flux V two can do this, but Argo can manage multiple clusters now from one cluster, so your, you can manage other clusters, technically external things from a single entity. Um Originally flux couldn't do that, but I'm going to say that V two can, I don't actually >>know. Um I think all that is gonna, I think that's going to consolidate in the future. All right. In terms of like the common feature set, what Iver and john what do you think? >>I mean, I think it's already begun, right, I think haven't, didn't they collaborate on a common engine? I don't know whether it's finished yet, but I think they're working towards a common getups engine and then they're just going to layer on features on top. But I think, I mean, I think that's interesting, right, because where it runs and where it interacts with, if we're talking about a pull based model, it shouldn't, it's decentralized to a certain extent, right? We need get and we need the agent which is pulling if we're saying there's something else which is orchestrating something that we start to like fuzzy the model even right. Like is this state living somewhere else, then I think that's just interesting as well. I thought flux was completely decentralized, but I know you install our go somewhere like the cargo has a server as well, but it's been a while since I've looked in depth at them. But I think the, you know, does that muddy the agent only pull model? >>I'm reading a >>Yeah, I would say that there's like a process of natural selection going on as as the C. N. C. F. Landscape evolves and grows bigger and a lot of divide and conquer right now. But I think as certain things kind of get more prominent >>and popular, I think >>it starts to trend and it inspires other things and then it starts to aggregate and you know, kind of get back into like a unified kind of like core. Maybe like for instance, cross plane, I feel like it shouldn't even really exist. It should be, it like it's a communities add on, but it should be built in, it should be built into kubernetes, like why doesn't this exist already >>for like controlling a cloud? >>Yeah, like just, you know, having this interface with the cloud provider and be able to Yeah, >>exactly. Yeah, and it kinda, you're right. That kinda happens because you do, I mean when you start talking about storage providers and networking providers was very specific implementations of operators or just individual controllers that do operate and control other resources in the cloud, but certainly not universally right. Not every feature of AWS is available to kubernetes out of the box. Um and you know, it, one of the challenges across plane is you gotta have kubernetes before you can deploy kubernetes. Like there's a chicken and egg issue there where if you're going to use, if you're going to use our cross plane for your other infrastructure, but it's gotta, but it has to run on kubernetes who creates that first kubernetes in order for you to put that on there. And victor talks about one of his videos, the same problem with flux and Argo where like Argo, you can't deploy Argo itself with getups. There has to be that initial, I did a thing with, I'm a human and I typed in some commands on a server and things happened but they don't really have an easy deployment method for getting our go up and running using simply nothing but a get push to an existing system. There's something like that. So it's a it's an interesting problem of day one infrastructure which is again only day one, I think data is way more interesting and hard, but um how can we spend these things up if they're all depending on each other and who is the first one to get started? >>I mean it's true of everything though, I mean at the end of that you need some kind of big bang kind of function too, you know, I started running start everything I >>think without going over that, sorry, without going off on a tangent. I was, I was gonna say there's a, if folks have heard of kind which is kubernetes and Docker, which is a mini kubernetes cluster, you can run in a Docker container or each container will run as a as a node. Um you know, that's been a really good way to spin up things like clusters. KPI because they boot strap a local kind, install the manifests, it will go and spin up a fully sized cluster, it will transfer its resources over there and then it will die itself. Right? So that, that's kind of bootstrapping itself. And I think a couple of folks in the community, Jason to Tiberius, I think he works for Quinyx metal um has, has experimented with like an even more minimal just Api server, so we're really just leveraging the kubernetes ideas of like a reconciliation loop and a controller. We just need something to bootstrap with those C R D s and get something going and then go away again. So I think that's gonna be a pattern that comes up kind of more and more >>Yeah, for sure. Um, and uh, the next, next quick answer to the question, Angel asked what your thoughts on getups being a niche to get or versus others vcs tools? Well, if I knew anyone who is using anything other than get, I would say no, you know, get ops is a horrible name. It should just be CVS office, but that doesn't or vcs ops or whatever like that, but that doesn't roll off the tongue. So someone had to come up with the get ups phrase. Um but absolutely, it's all about version control solutions used for infrastructure, not code. Um might get doctor asks a great question, we're not gonna have time for it, but maybe people can reply and chat with what they think but about infrastructure and code, the lines being blurred and that do develop, how much of infrastructure does developer do developers need to know? Essentially, they're having to know all the things. Um so unfortunately we've had way more questions like every panel here today with all the great community, we've got way more questions we can handle in this time. So we're gonna have to wrap it up and say goodbye. Go to the next live panel. I believe the next one is um on developer, developer specific setups that's gonna be peter running that panel. Something about development in containers and I'm sure it's gonna be great. Just like this one. So let's go around the room where can people find you on the internet? I'm at Brett fisher on twitter. That's where you can usually find me most days you are? >>Yeah, I'm on twitter to um, I'll put it in the chat. It's kind of confusing because the TSR seven. >>Okay. Yeah, that's right. You can't just say it. You can also look at the blow of the video and like our faces are there and if you click on them, it tells you our twitter in Arlington and stuff, john >>John Harris 85, pretty much everywhere. Get hub Twitter slack, etc. >>Yeah >>and normal, normal faults or just, you know, living on Youtube live with Brett. >>Yeah, we're all on the twitter so go check us out there and thank you so much for joining. Uh thank you so much to you all for being here. I really appreciate you taking time in your busy schedule to join me for a little chit chat. Um Yes, all the, all the cheers, yes. >>And I think this kid apps loop has been declarative lee reconciled. >>Yeah, there we go. And with that ladies and gentlemen, uh bid you would do, we will see you in the next, next round coming up next with Peter >>bye.