we're back at vemma in 2022 we're here at the aria hotel in las vegas this is thecube's continuous coverage we're day two welcome to the cxo session we have ceo cto cso chief strategy officer brett diamond is the ceo justin jardina is the cto and dante orsini is the chief strategy officer for 11 11 systems recently named i guess today the impact cloud service provider of the year congratulations guys welcome thank you welcome back to the cube great to see you again thank you great likewise so okay brett let's start with you tell give us the overview of 11 1111 uh your focus area talk about the the the island acquisition what that what that's all about give us the setup yeah so we started 11-11 uh really with a focus on taking the three core pillars of our business which are cloud connectivity and security bring them together into one platform allowing a much easier way for our customers and our partners to procure those three solution sets through a single company and really focus on uh the three main drivers of the business uh which you know have a litany of other services associated with them under each platform okay so so justin cloud connectivity and security they all dramatically changed in march of 2020 everybody had to go to the cloud the rather rethink the network had a secure remote worker so what did you see from a from a cto's perspective what changed and how did 11 respond sure so early on when we built our cloud even back into 2008 we really focused on enterprise great features one of which being uh very flexible in the networking so we found early on was that we would be able to architect solutions for customers that were dipping their toe in the cloud and set ourselves apart from some of the vendors at the time so if you fast forward from 2008 until today we still see that as a main component for iaz and draz and the ability to start taking into some of the things brett talked about where customers may need a point-to-point circuit to offload data connectivity to us or develop sd-wan and multi-cloud solutions to connect to their resources in the cloud in my opinion it's just the natural progression of what we set out to do in 2008 and to couple that with the security um if you think about what that opens up from a security landscape now you have multiple clouds you have different ingress and egress points you have different people accessing workloads in each one of these clouds so the idea or our idea is that we can layer a comprehensive security solution over this new multi-cloud networking world and then provide visibility and manageability to our customer base so what does that mean specifically for your customers because i mean we saw obviously a rapid move toward endpoint um cloud security uh identity access you know people really started thinking rethinking that as opposed to trying to just you know build a moat around the castle right um what does that mean for for your customer you take care of all that you partner with whomever you need to partner in the ecosystem and then you provide the managed service how does that work right it does and that's a great analogy you know we have a picture of a hamburger in our office exploded with all the components and they say a good security policy is all the pieces and it's really synonymous with what you said so to answer your question yes we have all that baked in the platform we can offer managed services around it but we also give the consumer the ability to access that data whether it's a ui or api so dante i know you talk to a lot of customers all you do is watch the stock market go like this and like that you say okay the pandemic drove all these but but when you talk to csos and customers a lot of things are changing permanently first of all they were forced to march to digital when previously they were like we'll get there i mean a lot of customers were let's face it i mean some were serious about it but many weren't now if you're not a digital business you're out of business what have you seen when you talk to customers in terms of the permanence of some of these changes what are they telling you well i think we go through this for ourselves right the business continues to grow you've got tons of people that are working remotely and that are going to continue to work remotely right as much as we'd like to offer up hybrid workspace and things like that some folks are like hey i've worked it out i'm working out great from home right and also i think what justin was saying also is we've seen time go on that operating environment has gotten much more complex you've got stuff in the data center stuff it's somebody's you know endpoint you've got various different public clouds different sas services right that's why it's been phenomenal to work with veeam because we can protect that data regardless of where it exists but when you start to look at some of the managed security services that we're talking about we're helping those csos you get better visibility better control and take proactive action against the infrastructure um when we look at threat mitigation and how to actually respond when when something does happen right and i think that's the key because there's no shortage of great security vendors right but how do you tie it all together into a single solution right with a vendor that you can actually partner with to help secure the environment while you go focus on the things they're more strategic to the business i was talking to jim mercer at um red hat summit last week he's an idc analyst and he said we did a survey i think it was last summer and we asked customers to your point about there's no shortage of security tools how do you want to buy your security and you know do you want you know best to breed bespoke tools and you sort of put it together or do you kind of want your platform provider to do it now surprisingly they said platform provider the the problem is that's aspirational for a lot of platforms providers so they've got to look to a managed service provider so brett talk about the the island acquisition what green cloud is how that all fits together so we acquired island and green cloud last year and the reality is that the people at both of those companies and the technology is what drove us to making those acquisitions they were the foundational pieces to eleven eleven uh obviously the things that justin has been able to create from an automation and innovation perspective uh at the company is transforming this business in a litany of different ways as well so those two acquisitions allow us at this point to take a cloud environment on a geographic footprint not only throughout the us but globally uh have a security product that was given to us from from the green cloud acquisition of cascade and add-on connectivity to allow us to have all three platforms in one all three pillars so i like 11 11 11 is near and dear to my heart i am so where'd the name come from uh everybody asked me this question i think five times a day so uh growing up as a kid everyone in my family would always say 11 11 make a wish whenever you'd see it on the clock and uh during coven we were coming up with a new name for the business my daughter looked at the microwave said dad it's 11 11. make a wish the reality was though i had no idea why i'd been doing it for all that time and when you look up kind of the background origination derivation of the word uh it means the time of day when everything's in line um and when things are complex especially with running all the different businesses that we have aligning them so that they're working together it seemed like a perfect man when i had the big corner office at idc i had my staff meetings at 11 11. because the universe was aligned and then the other thing was nobody could forget the time so they gave him 11 minutes to be there now you'll see it all the time even when you don't want to so justin we've been talking a lot about ransomware and and not just backup but recovery my friend fred moore who you know coined the phrase backup is one thing recovery is everything and recovery time network speeds and and the like are critical especially when you're thinking cloud how are you architecting recovery for your clients maybe you could dig into that a little bit sure so it's really a multitude of things you know you mentioned ransomware seeing the ransomware landscape evolve over time especially in our business with backup and dr it's very singular you know people protecting against host nodes now we're seeing ransomware be able to get into an environment land and expand actually delete backups target backup vendors so the ransomware point i guess um trying to battle that is a multi-step process right you need to think about how data flows into the organization from a security perspective from a networking perspective you need to think about how your workloads are protected and then when you think about backups i know we're at veeam vmon now talking about veeam there's a multitude of ways to protect that data whether it's retention whether it's immutability air gapping data so while i know we focus a lot sometimes on protecting data it's really that hamburg analogy where the sum of the parts make up the protection so how do you provide services i mean you say okay you want immutability there's a there's a line item for that um you want faster or you know low rpo fast rto how does that all work for as a customer what what am i buying from you is it just a managed service we'll take care of everything platinum gold silver or is it if if you don't mind so i'm glad you asked that question because this is something that's very unique about us years ago his team actually built the ip because we were scaling at such an incredible rate globally through all our joint partners with veeam that how do we take all the intelligence that we have in his team and all of our solution architects and scale it so they actually developed a tool called catalyst and it's a pre-sales tool it's an application you download it you install it it basically takes a snapshot of your environment you start to manipulate the data what are you trying to do dave are you trying to protect that data are you backing up to us are you trying to replicate for dr purposes um you know what are you doing for production or maybe it's a migration it analyzes the network it analyzes all your infrastructure it helps the ses know immediately if we're a feasible solution based on what you are trying to do so nobody in the space is doing this and that's been a huge key to our growth because the channel community as well as the customer they're working with real data so we can get past all the garbage and get right to what's important for them for the outcome yeah that's huge who do you guys sell to is it is it more mid-sized businesses that maybe don't have the large teams is it larger enterprises who want to complement to their business is it both well i would say with the two acquisitions that we made the go-to-market sales strategies and the clientele were very different when you look at green cloud they're selling predominantly wholesale through msps and those msps are mostly selling to smbs right so we covered that smb market for the most part through our acquisition of green cloud island on the other hand was more focused on selling direct inbound through vars through the channel mid enterprise big enterprise so really those two acquisitions outside of the ip that we got from the systems we have every single go-to-market sale strategy and we're aligned from smb all the way up to the fortune 500. i heard a stat a couple months ago that that less than 50 of enterprises have a sock it blew me away and you know even small businesses need one they may not be able to afford but certainly a medium size or larger business should have some kind of sock is it does that stat jive with what you're seeing in the marketplace 100 if that's true the need for a managed service like this is just it's going to explode it is exploding yeah i mean 100 right there is zero unemployment in the cyberspace right just north america alone there's about a million or so folks in that space and right now you've got about 600 000 open wrecks just in north america right so earlier we talked about no shortage of tools right but the shortage of head count is a significant challenge big time right most importantly the people that you do have on staff they've got alert fatigue from the tools that they do have that's why you're seeing this massive insurgence in the managed security services provider lack of talent is number one challenge for csos that's what they'll tell you and there's no end in sight to that and it's you know another tool and and it's amazing because you see security companies popping up all the time billion dollar evaluations i mean lacework did a billion dollar raise and so so there's no shortage of funding now maybe that'll change you know with the market but i wanted to turn our attention to the keynotes this morning you guys got some serious love up on stage um there was a demo uh it was a pretty pretty cool demo fast recovery very very tight rpo as i recall it was i think four minutes of data loss is that right was that the right knit stat i was happy it wasn't zero data loss because there's really you know no such thing uh but so you got to feel good about that tell us about um how that all came about your relationship with with veeam who wants to take it sure i can i can take a step at it so one of the or two of the things that i'm um most excited about at least with this vmon is our team was able to work with veeam on that demo and what that demo was showing was some cdp-based features for cloud providers so we're really happy to see that and the reason why we're happy to see that is that with the veeam platform it's now given the customers the ability to do things like snapshot replication cdp replication on-prem backup cloud backup immutability air gap the list goes on and on and in our opinion having a singular software vendor that can provide all that through you know with a cloud provider on prem or not is really like the icing on the cake so for us it's very exciting to see that and then also coupled with a lot of the innovation that veeam's doing in the sas space right so again having that umbrella product that can cover all those use cases i'll tell you if you guys can get a that was a very cool demo if we can get a youtube of that that that demo i'll make sure we put it in the the show notes and uh of this video or maybe pop it into one of the blogs that we write about it um so so how you guys feel i mean this is a new chapter for you very cool with a couple of acquisitions that are now the main mainspring of your strategy so the first veeam on in a couple years so what's the vibe been like for you what's the nighttime activity the customer interaction i know you guys are running a lot of the back end demos so you're everywhere what's the what's the vibe like at veeamon and how does it feel to be back look at that one at dante as far as yeah you got a lot of experience here yeah let me loose on this one dave i'm like so excited about this right it's been it's been far too long to get face to face again and um veeam always does it right and i think that uh for years we've been back-ending like all the hands-on lab infrastructure here but forget about that i think the part that's really exciting is getting face-to-face with such a great team right we have phenomenal architects that we work with at veeam day in and day out they put up with us pushing them pushing and pushing them and together we've been able to create a lot of magic together right but i think it's you can't replace the human interaction that we've all been starving for for the last two years but the vibe's always fantastic at veeam if you're going to be around tonight i'll be looking forward to enjoying some of that veeam love with you at the after party yeah that's well famous after parties we'll see if that culture continues i have a feeling it will um brett where do you want to take 11 11. a new new phase in all of your careers you got a great crew out here it looks like i i love that you're all out and uh make some noise here people let's hear it all right let's see you this is the biggest audience we've had all week where do you want to take 11 11. i think you know if uh if you look at what we've done so far in the short six months since the acquisitions of green cloud and ireland obviously the integration is a key piece we're going to be laser focused on growing organically across those three pillars we've got to put more capital and resources into the incredible ip like i said earlier that just and his team have created on those front ends the user experience but you know we made two large acquisitions obviously mna is a is a key piece for us we're going to be diligent and we're probably going to be very aggressive on that front as well to be able to grow this business into the global leader of cloud connectivity and security and i think we've really hit a void in the industry that's been looking for this for a very long time and we want to be the first ones to be able to collaborate and combine those three into one when the when the cloud started to hit the steep part of the s-curve kind of early part of the last decade people thought oh wow these managed service providers are toast the exact opposite happened it created such a tailwind and need for consistent services and integration and managed services we've seen it all across the stack so guys wish you best of luck congratulations on the acquisitions thank you uh hope to have you back soon yeah thank you around the block all right keep it right there everybody dave vellante for the cube's coverage of veeamon 2022 we'll be right back after this short break

>>Hi everybody. This is Dave Volante. Welcome to this cube conversation where we're going to go back in time a little bit and explore the early days of Kubernetes. Talk about how it formed the improbable events, perhaps that led to it. And maybe how customers are taking advantage of containers and container orchestration today, and maybe where the industry is going. Matt Provo is here. He's the founder and CEO of storm forge and Chandler Huntington hoes. Hoisington is the general manager of EKS edge and hybrid AWS guys. Thanks for coming on. Good to see you. Thanks for having me. Thanks. So, Jenny, you were the vice president of engineering at miso sphere. Is that, is that correct? >>Well, uh, vice-president engineering basis, fear and then I ran product and engineering for DTQ masons. >>Yeah. Okay. Okay. So you were there in the early days of, of container orchestration and Matt, you, you were working at a S a S a Docker swarm shop, right? Yep. Okay. So I mean, a lot of people were, you know, using your platform was pretty novel at the time. Uh, it was, it was more sophisticated than what was happening with, with Kubernetes. Take us back. What was it like then? Did you guys, I mean, everybody was coming out. I remember there was, I think there was one Docker con and everybody was coming, the Kubernetes was announced, and then you guys were there, doc Docker swarm was, was announced and there were probably three or four other startups doing kind of container orchestration. And what, what were those days like? Yeah. >>Yeah. I wasn't actually atmosphere for those days, but I know them well, I know the story as well. Um, uh, I came right as we started to pivot towards Kubernetes there, but, um, it's a really interesting story. I mean, obviously they did a documentary on it and, uh, you know, people can watch that. It's pretty good. But, um, I think that, from my perspective, it was, it was really interesting how this happened. You had basically, uh, con you had this advent of containers coming out, right? So, so there's new novel technology and Solomon, and these folks started saying, Hey, you know, wait a second, wait if I put a UX around these couple of Linux features that got launched a couple of years ago, what does that look like? Oh, this is pretty cool. Um, so you have containers starting to crop up. And at the same time you had folks like ThoughtWorks and other kind of thought leaders in the space, uh, starting to talk about microservices and saying, Hey, monoliths are bad and you should break up these monoliths into smaller pieces. >>And any Greenfield application should be broken up into individuals, scalable units that a team can can own by themselves, and they can scale independent of each other. And you can write tests against them independently of other components. And you should break up these big, big mandalas. And now we are kind of going back to model this, but that's for another day. Um, so, so you had microservices coming out and then you also had containers coming out, same time. So there was like, oh, we need to put these microservices in something perfect. We'll put them in containers. And so at that point, you don't really, before that moment, you didn't really need container orchestration. You could just run a workload in a container and be done with it, right? You didn't need, you don't need Kubernetes to run Docker. Um, but all of a sudden you had tons and tons of containers and you had to manage these in some way. >>And so that's where container orchestration came, came from. And, and Ben Heineman, the founder of Mesa was actually helping schedule spark at the time at Berkeley. Um, and that was one of the first workloads with spark for Macy's. And then his friends at Twitter said, Hey, come over, can you help us do this with containers at Twitter? He said, okay. So when it helped them do it with containers at Twitter, and that's kinda how that branch of the container wars was started. And, um, you know, it was really, really great technology and it actually is still in production in a lot of shops today. Um, uh, more and more people are moving towards Kubernetes and Mesa sphere saw that trend. And at the end of the day, Mesa sphere was less concerned about, even though they named the company Mesa sphere, they were less concerned about helping customers with Mesa specifically. They really want to help customers with these distributed problems. And so it didn't make sense to, to just do Mesa. So they would took on Kubernetes as well. And I hope >>I don't do that. I remember, uh, my, my co-founder John furrier introduced me to Jerry Chen way back when Jerry is his first, uh, uh, VC investment with Greylock was Docker. And we were talking in these very, obviously very excited about it. And, and his Chandler was just saying, it said Solomon and the team simplified, you know, containers, you know, simple and brilliant. All right. So you guys saw the opportunity where you were Docker swarm shop. Why? Because you needed, you know, more sophisticated capabilities. Yeah. But then you, you switched why the switch, what was happening? What was the mindset back then? We ran >>And into some scale challenges in kind of operationalize or, or productizing our kind of our core machine learning. And, you know, we, we, we saw kind of the, the challenges, luckily a bit ahead of our time. And, um, we happen to have someone on the team that was also kind of moonlighting, uh, as one of the, the original core contributors to Kubernetes. And so as this sort of shift was taking place, um, we, we S we saw the flexibility, uh, of what was becoming Kubernetes. Um, and, uh, I'll never forget. I left on a Friday and came back on a Monday and we had lifted and shifted, uh, to Kubernetes. Uh, the challenge was, um, you know, you, at that time, you, you didn't have what you have today through EKS. And, uh, those kinds of services were, um, just getting that first cluster up and running was, was super, super difficult, even in a small environment. >>And so I remember we, you know, we, we finally got it up and running and it was like, nobody touch it, don't do anything. Uh, but obviously that doesn't, that doesn't scale either. And so that's really, you know, being kind of a data science focused shop at storm forge from the very beginning. And that's where our core IP is. Uh, our, our team looked at that problem. And then we looked at, okay, there are a bunch of parameters and ways that I can tune this application. And, uh, why are the configurations set the way that they are? And, you know, uh, is there room to explore? And that's really where, unfortunately, >>Because Mesa said much greater enterprise capabilities as the Docker swarm, at least they were heading in that direction, but you still saw that Kubernetes was, was attractive because even though it didn't have all the security features and enterprise features, because it was just so simple. I remember Jen Goldberg who was at Google at the time saying, no, we were focused on keeping it simple and we're going from mass adoption, but does that kind of what you said? >>Yeah. And we made a bet, honestly. Uh, we saw that the, uh, you know, the growing community was really starting to, you know, we had a little bit of an inside view because we had, we had someone that was very much in the, in the original part, but you also saw the, the tool chain itself start to, uh, start to come into place right. A little bit. And it's still hardening now, but, um, yeah, we, as any, uh, as any startup does, we, we made a pivot and we made a bet and, uh, this, this one paid off >>Well, it's interesting because, you know, we said at the time, I mean, you had, obviously Amazon invented the modern cloud. You know, Microsoft has the advantage of has got this huge software stays, Hey, just now run it into the cloud. Okay, great. So they had their entry point. Google didn't have an entry point. This is kind of a hail Mary against Amazon. And, and I, I wrote a piece, you know, the improbable, Verizon, who Kubernetes to become the O S you know, the cloud, but, but I asked, did it make sense for Google to do that? And it never made any money off of it, but I would argue they, they were kind of, they'd be irrelevant if they didn't have, they hadn't done that yet, but it didn't really hurt. It certainly didn't hurt Amazon EKS. And you do containers and your customers you've embraced it. Right. I mean, I, I don't know what it was like early days. I remember I've have talked to Amazon people about this. It's like, okay, we saw it and then talk to customers, what are they doing? Right. That's kind of what the mindset is, right? Yeah. >>That's, I, I, you know, I've, I've been at Amazon a couple of years now, and you hear the stories of all we're customer obsessed. We listened to our customers like, okay, okay. We have our company values, too. You get told them. And when you're, uh, when you get first hired in the first day, and you never really think about them again, but Amazon, that really is preached every day. It really is. Um, uh, and that we really do listen to our customers. So when customers start asking for communities, we said, okay, when we built it for them. So, I mean, it's, it's really that simple. Um, and, and we also, it's not as simple as just building them a Kubernetes service. Amazon has a big commitment now to start, you know, getting involved more in the community and working with folks like storm forage and, and really listening to customers and what they want. And they want us working with folks like storm florigen and that, and that's why we're doing things like this. So, well, >>It's interesting, because of course, everybody looks at the ecosystem, says, oh, Amazon's going to kill the ecosystem. And then we saw an article the other day in, um, I think it was CRN, did an article, great job by Amazon PR, but talk about snowflake and Amazon's relationship. And I've said many times snowflake probably drives more than any other ISV out there. And so, yeah, maybe the Redshift guys might not love snowflake, but Amazon in general, you know, they're doing great three things. And I remember Andy Jassy said to me, one time, look, we love the ecosystem. We need the ecosystem. They have to innovate too. If they don't, you know, keep pace, you know, they're going to be in trouble. So that's actually a healthy kind of a dynamic, I mean, as an ecosystem partner, how do you, >>Well, I'll go back to one thing without the work that Google did to open source Kubernetes, a storm forge wouldn't exist, but without the effort that AWS and, and EKS in particular, um, provides and opens up for, for developers to, to innovate and to continue, continue kind of operationalizing the shift to Kubernetes, um, you know, we wouldn't have nearly the opportunity that we do to actually listen to them as well, listen to the users and be able to say, w w w what do you want, right. Our entire reason for existence comes from asking users, like, how painful is this process? Uh, like how much confidence do you have in the, you know, out of the box, defaults that ship with your, you know, with your database or whatever it is. And, uh, and, and how much do you love, uh, manually tuning your application? >>And, and, uh, obviously nobody's said, I love that. And so I think as that ecosystem comes together and continues expanding, um, it's just, it opens up a huge opportunity, uh, not only for existing, you know, EKS and, uh, AWS users to continue innovating, but for companies like storm forge, to be able to provide that opportunity for them as well. And, and that's pretty powerful. So I think without a lot of the moves they've made, um, you know, th the door wouldn't be nearly as open for companies like, who are, you know, growing quickly, but are smaller to be able to, you know, to exist. >>Well, and I was saying earlier that, that you've, you're in, I wrote about this, you're going to get better capabilities. You're clearly seeing that cluster management we've talked about better, better automation, security, the whole shift left movement. Um, so obviously there's a lot of momentum right now for Kubernetes. When you think about bare metal servers and storage, and then you had VM virtualization, VMware really, and then containers, and then Kubernetes as another abstraction, I would expect we're not at the end of the road here. Uh, what's next? Is there another abstraction layer that you would think is coming? Yeah, >>I mean, w for awhile, it looked like, and I remember even with our like board members and some of our investors said, well, you know, well, what about serverless? And, you know, what's the next Kubernetes and nothing, we, as much as I love Kubernetes, um, which I do, and we do, um, nothing about what we particularly do. We are purpose built for Kubernetes, but from a core kind of machine learning and problem solving standpoint, um, we could apply this elsewhere, uh, if we went that direction and so time will tell what will be next, then there will be something, uh, you know, that will end up, you know, expanding beyond Kubernetes at some point. Um, but, you know, I think, um, without knowing what that is, you know, our job is to, to, to serve our, you know, to serve our customers and serve our users in the way that they are asking for that. >>Well, serverless obviously is exploding when you look again, and we tucked the ETR survey data, when you look at, at the services within Amazon and other cloud providers, you know, the functions off, off the charts. Uh, so that's kind of an interesting and notable now, of course, you've got Chandler, you've got edge in your title. You've got hybrid in, in your title. So, you know, this notion of the cloud expanding, it's not just a set of remote services, just only in the public cloud. Now it's, it's coming to on premises. You actually got Andy, Jesse, my head space. He said, one time we just look at it. The data centers is another edge location. Right. Okay. That's a way to look at it and then you've got edge. Um, so that cloud is expanding, isn't it? The definition of cloud is, is, is evolving. >>Yeah, that's right. I mean, customers one-on-one run workloads in lots of places. Um, and that's why we have things like, you know, local zones and wavelengths and outposts and EKS anywhere, um, EKS, distro, and obviously probably lots more things to come. And there's, I always think of like, Amazon's Kubernetes strategy on a manageability scale. We're on one far end of the spectrum, you have EKS distro, which is just a collection of the core Kubernetes packages. And you could, you could take those and stand them up yourself in a broom closet, in a, in a retail shop. And then on the other far in the spectrum, you have EKS far gate where you can just give us your container and we'll handle everything for you. Um, and then we kind of tried to solve everything in between for your data center and for the cloud. And so you can, you can really ask Amazon, I want you to manage my control plane. I want you to manage this much of my worker nodes, et cetera. And oh, I actually want help on prem. And so we're just trying to listen to customers and solve their problems where they're asking us to solve them. Cut, >>Go ahead. No, I would just add that in a more vertically focused, uh, kind of orientation for us. Like we, we believe that op you know, optimization capabilities should transcend the location itself. And, and, and so whether that's part public part, private cloud, you know, that's what I love part of what I love about EKS anywhere. Uh, it, you know, you shouldn't, you should still be able to achieve optimal results that connect to your business objectives, uh, wherever those workloads, uh, are, are living >>Well, don't wince. So John and I coined this term called Supercloud and people laugh about it, but it's different. It's, it's, you know, people talk about multi-cloud, but that was just really kind of vendor diversity. Right? I got to running here, I'm running their money anywhere. Uh, but, but individually, and so Supercloud is this concept of this abstraction layer that floats wherever you are, whether it's on prem, across clouds, and you're taking advantage of those native primitives, um, and then hiding that underlying complexity. And that's what, w re-invent the ecosystem was so excited and they didn't call it super cloud. We, we, we called it that, but they're clearly thinking differently about the value that they can add on top of Goldman Sachs. Right. That to me is an example of a Supercloud they're taking their on-prem data and their, their, their software tooling connecting it to AWS. They're running it on AWS, but they're, they're abstracting that complexity. And I think you're going to see a lot, a lot more of that. >>Yeah. So Kubernetes itself, in many cases is being abstracted away. Yeah. There's a disability of a disappearing act for Kubernetes. And I don't mean that in a, you know, in an, a, from an adoption standpoint, but, uh, you know, Kubernetes itself is increasingly being abstracted away, which I think is, is actually super interesting. Yeah. >>Um, communities doesn't really do anything for a company. Like we run Kubernetes, like, how does that help your bottom line? That at the end of the day, like companies don't care that they're running Kubernetes, they're trying to solve a problem, which is the, I need to be able to deploy my applications. I need to be able to scale them easily. I need to be able to update them easily. And those are the things they're trying to solve. So if you can give them some other way to do that, I'm sure you know, that that's what they want. It's not like, uh, you know, uh, a big bank is making more money because they're running Kubernetes. That's not, that's not the current, >>It gets subsumed. It's just become invisible. Right. Exactly. You guys back to the office yet. What's, uh, what's the situation, >>You know, I, I work for my house and I, you know, we go into the office a couple of times a week, so it's, it's, uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's a crazy time. It's a crazy time to be managing and hiring. And, um, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's definitely a challenge, but there's a lot of benefits of working home. I got two young kids, so I get to see them, uh, grow up a little bit more working, working out of my house. So it's >>Nice also. >>So we're in, even as a smaller startup, we're in 26, 27 states, uh, Canada, Germany, we've got a little bit of presence in Japan, so we're very much distributed. Um, we, uh, have not gone back and I'm not sure we will >>Permanently remote potentially. >>Yeah. I mean, w we made a, uh, pretty like for us, the timing of our series B funding, which was where we started hiring a lot, uh, was just before COVID started really picking up. So we, you know, thankfully made a, a pretty good strategic decision to say, we're going to go where the talent is. And yeah, it was harder to find for sure, especially in w we're competing, it's incredibly competitive. Uh, but yeah, we've, it was a good decision for us. Um, we are very about, you know, getting the teams together in person, you know, as often as possible and in the safest way possible, obviously. Um, but you know, it's been a, it's been a pretty interesting, uh, journey for us and something that I'm, I'm not sure I would, I would change to be honest with you. Yeah. >>Well, Frank Slootman, snowflakes HQ to Montana, and then can folks like Michael Dell saying, Hey, same thing as you, wherever they want to work, bring yourself and wherever you are as cool. And do you think that the hybrid mode for your team is kind of the, the, the operating mode for the, for the foreseeable future is a couple of, >>No, I think, I think there's a lot of benefits in both working from the office. I don't think you can deny like the face-to-face interactions. It feels good just doing this interview face to face. Right. And I can see your mouth move. So it's like, there's a lot of benefits to that, um, over a chime call or a zoom call or whatever, you know, that, that also has advantages, right. I mean, you can be more focused at home. And I think some version of hybrid is probably in the industry's future. I don't know what Amazon's exact plans are. That's above my pay grade, but, um, I know that like in general, the industry is definitely moving to some kind of hybrid model. And like Matt said, getting people I'm a big fan at Mesa sphere, we ran a very diverse, like remote workforce. We had a big office in Germany, but we'd get everybody together a couple of times a year for engineering week or, or something like this. And you'd get a hundred people, you know, just dedicated to spending time together at a hotel and, you know, Vegas or Hamburg or wherever. And it's a really good time. And I think that's a good model. >>Yeah. And I think just more ETR data, the current thinking now is that, uh, the hybrid is the number one sort of model, uh, 36% that the CIO is believe 36% of the workforce are going to be hybrid permanently is kind of their, their call a couple of days in a couple of days out. Um, and the, the percentage that is remote is significantly higher. It probably, you know, high twenties, whereas historically it's probably 15%. Yeah. So permanent changes. And that, that changes the infrastructure. You need to support it, the security models and everything, you know, how you communicate. So >>When COVID, you know, really started hitting and in 2020, um, the big banks for example, had to, I mean, you would want to talk about innovation and ability to, to shift quickly. Two of the bigger banks that have in, uh, in fact, adopted Kubernetes, uh, were able to shift pretty quickly, you know, systems and things that were, you know, historically, you know, it was in the office all the time. And some of that's obviously shifted back to a certain degree, but that ability, it was pretty remarkable actually to see that, uh, take place for some of the larger banks and others that are operating in super regulated environments. I mean, we saw that in government agencies and stuff as well. >>Well, without the cloud, no, this never would've happened. Yeah. >>And I think it's funny. I remember some of the more old school manager thing people are, aren't gonna work less when they're working from home, they're gonna be distracted. I think you're seeing the opposite where people are too much, they get burned out because you're just running your computer all day. And so I think that we're learning, I think everyone, the whole industry is learning. Like, what does it mean to work from home really? And, uh, it's, it's a fascinating thing is as a case study, we're all a part of right now. >>I was talking to my wife last night about this, and she's very thoughtful. And she w when she was in the workforce, she was at a PR firm and a guy came in a guest speaker and it might even be in the CEO of the company asking, you know, what, on average, what time who stays at the office until, you know, who leaves by five o'clock, you know, a few hands up, or who stays until like eight o'clock, you know, and enhancement. And then, so he, and he asked those people, like, why, why can't you get your work done in a, in an eight hour Workday? I go home. Why don't you go in? And I sit there. Well, that's interesting, you know, cause he's always looking at me like, why can't you do, you know, get it done? And I'm saying the world has changed. Yeah. It really has where people are just on all the time. I'm not sure it's sustainable, quite frankly. I mean, I think that we have to, you know, as organizations think about, and I see companies doing it, you guys probably do as well, you know, take a four day, you know, a week weekend, um, just for your head. Um, but it's, there's no playbook. >>Yeah. Like I said, we're a part of a case study. It's also hard because people are distributed now. So you have your meetings on the east coast, you can wake up at seven four, and then you have meetings on the west coast. You stay until seven o'clock therefore, so your day just stretches out. So you've got to manage this. And I think we're, I think we'll figure it out. I mean, we're good at figuring this stuff. >>There's a rise in asynchronous communication. So with things like slack and other tools, as, as helpful as they are in many cases, it's a, it, isn't always on mentality. And like, people look for that little green dot and you know, if you're on the you're online. So my kids, uh, you know, we have a term now for me, cause my office at home is upstairs and I'll come down. And if it's, if it's during the day, they'll say, oh dad, you're going for a walk and talk, you know, which is like, it was my way of getting away from the desk, getting away from zoom. And like, you know, even in Boston, uh, you know, getting outside, trying to at least, you know, get a little exercise or walk and get, you know, get my head away from the computer screen. Um, but even then it's often like, oh, I'll get a slack notification on my phone or someone will call me even if it's not a scheduled walk and talk. Um, uh, and so it is an interesting, >>A lot of ways to get in touch or productivity is presumably going to go through the roof. But now, all right, guys, I'll let you go. Thanks so much for coming to the cube. Really appreciate it. And thank you for watching this cube conversation. This is Dave Alante and we'll see you next time.

>> Voiceover: Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCube, covering Sapphire Now. Headline sponsored by SAP HANA Cloud, the leader in platform-as-a-service, with support from Consul, Inc, the Cloud internet company. Now here are your hosts, John Furrier and Peter Burris. >> Everyone, we are live in Orlando, Florida for a special presentation of theCube at SAP Sapphire Now's theCube SiliconANGLE's flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signal from noise. I'm John Furrier, with my co-host Peter Burris Want to give a shout out to our sponsors. Without them, we would not be here. SAP HANA Cloud Platform Console Inc, Capgemini and EMC, thanks for your support, really excited to be here. Wall-to-wall coverage, three days. Over forty videos going to be hitting YouTube: SiliconANGLE.com/youtube. Our next guest is Dan Lahl, VP of SAP HANA Cloud Platform Product Marketing, welcome to theCube, thanks for having us. >> Thank you, John. You got all that out without a stumble. That was fantastic. >> I memorize it. >> That's great. >> Without our sponsors, we wouldn't be here, thank you very much. Thanks to you, and it's a been great support from you and your team. Really appreciate it, welcome to theCube. >> Love being here. You guys have something very unique in how you bring a play-by-play but from an analyst's perspective, very, very unique. >> Someone called me Pat Summerall, and Peter, John Madden yesterday, which was a great compliment because our lives are ESPN of tech. >> And I like it because it means I'm the better looking one. >> Exactly. >> NFL Gameday, but the game is on. >> Peter: Who's a guy? >> John: Boom! (laughs) >> Boom the Cloud is here! >> It's the whiteboard. But all seriously, great conversation. One of the things that's emerging out of the whole HANA Cloud Platform Ecosystem play is that it's really buzzing, and it's not like sizzle, but it's steak on the grill as well. So, just a lot of meat on the bone and the thing that we're seeing is that SAP has been putting themselves out there with tech. And not trying to do the land grab, not saying, hey, we're SAP and this is all a marketing program to get more SAP share for our other stuff. There's clear separation between SAP stuff, whether it's, whatever the customers are buying, and then an open way for developers; both SAP developers and, now, mainstream developers, iOS and Apple so, huge shift. And the Ecosystem's super excited, so I got to ask you, how do you guys separate out the market? Explain to the folks out there how this all fits in because the HANA Cloud platform is more open, it's really non-SAP, in a way. And there's other clouds out there, and let's face it, you guys weren't getting the buzz. A little bit late to the party, and you've got the product in good position right now. But you got Amazon out there, as your Microsoft was here, you know, doing relationship with you, your partnering with Apple, IBM was on, Cisco, all the big guys are here working with you. Separate out what it means. >> So let me back up, let me back up and give you all the HANA buzzwords, we've been very confusing to the market on how we brand it to different HANA products. There's the HANA database, data managing platform, we came out with that in 2011; very similar to Oracle from SQL Interface standpoint, very different from a technology standpoint. All in memory, and everybody knows that by now. Then, we have another initiative called S/4HANA. That's taking all of the applications, putting them onto the HANA data management platform. So that's the app stack. So business suite is now S/4HANA. So data management was HANA, S/4HANA, app stack. Then we have something called the HANA Enterprise Cloud, and that's just basically a managed service. You want to take your landscape, give it to our data center, let us manage for you. >> For SAP stuff? >> SAP stuff. Yeah, not any of the red stuff or anybody else's apps but >> But some of the partner extensions? >> But some of the partner extensions, yes. And that has to be certified, but basically it's a managed service. So you want to give your data center over to SAP? Guarantee that it will run, we'll upgrade all of the apps and enhancement packs and that kind of thing. So that's HANA Enterprise Cloud. And then finally, HANA Cloud Platform is something different altogether. It really is our offer, open platform as a service. So, any of the applications that SAP is shipping today, whether that be business suite, S/4HANA, Success Factors, Ariba, Concur, Cloud for Customer, you name it, can be extended or integrated using HANA Cloud Platform. Okay, so HANA data management, HEC, the managed service, S/4HANA, the new app stack, HCP, really the extension platform for that SAP Ecosystem. Okay? Now I say that, it's an open platform. It's Java-based, can you believe it? It's not ABAP-based, it's Java-based. Node.js, all open systems. We announced at the show that we're shipping Cloud Foundry with Node.js runtimes scripting languages like Ruby and Python and PHP and Go. Databases like Mongo and Postgres and Redis, it's open systems, baby, right? >> All the tools that they are offering. >> Exactly, they can do that. Yeah. So, any programmer under 30, we can now approach and have a conversation with. They don't have to learn a German programming language, right? Now, whether it's good or bad, it doesn't make any difference, it's open systems, right? And so that's kind of the framework of what we announced. >> What's that mean to developers? Let's take that forward, okay, open cloud platform, okay, great, under 30, or, just open source is so good now all the Q&A, all the questions are on Stack Overflow and all these Node.js and technology out to be used, so that's what people want. Okay, what's the impact to me? I'm the developer. What does it mean? What's in it for me? Do I have access to all the SAP stuff? I'm used to dealing with all these different tools to put systems together. >> That's the beauty, John, is all of those tools that you use, as an open systems developer, you can now, through HANA Cloud Platform, get to the back end systems that we didn't expose before, expect through an ABAP stack. Right, you don't have to learn BAPIs, you don't have to learn ABAP. You can use your Java capabilities, using Eclipse if you want, if you want to do it on your desktop device, or use a web IDE that's Java-based, right? >> But you're exposing these through API? >> Exactly, exactly, through either APIs or through integration services, through a direct connect back to the back ends. And we not only expose data, but also processes as well, so you can take advantage of a process. One of the things we announced this week was the API Business Hub. So now, we're going to deliver a catalog of APIs, where we'll publish into and an open system developer can say Oh, what's with that management accounting services? That hooks back into S/4HANA, I just need to call the API and take advantage of those management accounting services. Very cool. >> So on the Apple relationship, which is an iOS-based thing, the developer can then go to the Enterprise customer, so this is the Ecosystem now, okay I'm a developer. I have a whitespace, I see some unique thing, a problem that my customer has, that I can solve, or I'm an entrepreneur and say Hey, you know, I have a unique idea, I want to solve that problem. I code it but I might rely on SAP data, say an ERP, I could tap that-- >> You can now tap it. >> John: And integrate it in seamlessly? >> Yes, and show it natively on an iOS device. That's what we're delivering through the ACP software development kit SDK. So you're an Apple developer today. Well, you could develop the next SnapChat or some consumer-to-consumer app. But interesting, the bulk of Apple devices or the bulk of devices in the Enterprise, are Apple devices. They're not Android devices. Apple's done some work on that, upwards of 75% are actually Apple devices. So now, you're a developer, you want to get access to all of those different applications that SAP has, delivered in beautiful 1990s master detail today. >> Let's face it, I mean, we had this comment on theCube which we concur with, the user experience of Enterprise software is dated, and old, and people are bringing their phones to work. >> That's really kind of you to say dated and old, okay? I would have said old and crappy, okay? >> No one wakes up and says, hey I can't wait to download my Enterprise app and use it on the weekend. It's like root canal, don't love it, but you need it. >> Part number 000743xp, okay so now they can get into all of those processes without having to know the back end process. Through the SDK, we're going to expose all of those. >> Share some data on some of the onboard. I know you had a lot of early adopters and now the program's ramping up. We've talked over the past year and you guys are tweaking the product. You want to make sure the product was solid, that was key. Might have been delayed a little bit, but the timing of the Apple announcement, perfect. But I can imagine that the developers are excited because certainly in the Ecosystem out there, in Silicon Valley and beyond, there's a softening, it's kind of a bubble bursting, if you will, on the consumer stuff, so there might not be a couple more unicorns. The few unicorns that come along at every cycle of innovation. But the Enterprise is hot, so the buzz on the street is the Enterprise is hot, that's where you make money. As everyone works for a revenue model, you got to break even, so, there's a big focus on that in the entrepreneurial ecosystem. So, is there an uptake that you can share or any stats on the kinds of new onboarding that you guys are doing. >> Yeah, so just this week, we also announced that IBM is taking all of their MobileFirsts for iOS applications. They're going to participate in the SDK and they're going to move all of their applications onto the HANA cloud platform. They had a beautiful UI that they built for a hundred little mobile apps that were enterprise ready, but not enterprise connected. So now they're going to connect all those hundred little apps like Find&Fix, and Parts Manager and that kind of thing. >> I can see the slogan now. Enterprise: Ready to Connect. >> Exactly. >> Connecting. >> It's pretty decent validation of some of the things we're talking about here. >> Exactly, and the HCP play in it, for SAP is that's the gearbox to get them back to all of the SAP apps. Whether they be On Premise business suite, On Premise S/4HANA, Workforce Management, with Success Factors and Fieldglass. It's the gearbox to get them back to all of those. >> So let me ask the question, you're in a private market so you've got your eye on the prize in the market, you're forward-facing, but also you've got to work with the product teams and deal with that. Do you see a window of opportunity right now? Because the timing of having the product ready with HANA Cloud Platform plus the Apple relationship and the IBM stuff, which is more validation, a window of opportunity, the wind is at your back. This window, you've got a short window to kind of go out and win. Are you worried about that? Are you guys investing heavily now, do you see now a time to throttle it up and pedal to medal, straight and narrow, 90 miles an hour? >> You know, I actually see it as the wave is forming. Okay, I don't think our customer base knows that much about HANA Cloud Platform, it really has its coming out party at TechWave, last October. It's now exposed to the business group. We had the techie outage, now its the business outing. I see the wave starting to form, okay? And we've got to catch the wave and we got to ride the crap out of it. And there's a lot of stuff on the product side we have to deliver. There's a lot more that we have to do for integrating into our existing systems. We have to provide more direct, not direct connections, we've already got that piece, but more integration with the processes. We're not all the way there yet. So we have to push our product, our product management and engineering teams to do that. And that's not always easy at a big company like SAP that has all these different divisions building processes. And then the other hard part is, you got to make sure our sales reps are introducing us into every single customer account as a gearbox, as the agility platform. So that's starting to happen. So I wouldn't even say we're on the wave yet. We're starting to catch the wave. >> So let me build on that. I have two questions. I don't want to say they're quick. But here's the first one, here's what our CIO clients are telling us. One of the advantages of everything you said, platform, a lot of entry points, means that their business can pick their own road map for how they go to S/4HANA, as opposed to having single one-way, and that's the only way in, that'll extend the adoption cycle. Do you see that being a positive thing ultimately for not only SAP, in getting this message, and getting this product out, but also all the partners and the Ecosystem to drive this whole thing forward? >> Let me answer the customer part of that first. The way we have set up S/4 and HCP, is S/4 is the core that you really don't want to touch that much, you don't want to customize that much, you don't want to extend, you do that in HCP. Why would you want to do that? Well, as we deliver new enhancement packs, and we're delivering every couple of quarters, on the S/4 platform. Every time you do a customization inside the app, when you have to upgrade, you have to do regression tests, you got to check to customizations against the new rev. It becomes, in technical terms, a hairball. It becomes a huge hairball. Take that off the plate, just do it on HANA Cloud Platform. And so that's the customer angle to it, the partner angle to it is very simple, and it's a win-win for partners and for us. They can, and for customers as well, they can build a little app on the platform, snap it into S/4, Success Factor, and make it look like an app that's part of our SAS application, okay? The customer doesn't have to provision anything. The customer takes a tile and puts it on their Success Factor application. We win, because they're consuming it on HCP, so we're monetizing that too. So the partner has an easy path, the customer gets something easy, we help monetize on that. >> It's a great story and a lot of folks are looking forward, so for example, some of our clients are telling us, We are looking at the S/4platform, the S/4HANA platform, we came to it through analytics. So here's an interesting question Dan, you've got a lot of background in database. So the old way of thinking about building a database application is you didn't want to write an application required more than 80, 90, 100 disk I/Os. >> Yeah. Now we're talking about in-memory databases, calmative organization, provide any number of different straight-forward, common interfaces from a few standpoints back to the application. We're talkin' about what used to be or the equivalent of tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands of I/Os. What does that mean to the types of applications that we're going to be able to build in the Ecosystem over the course of the next few years. >> So you're right in that all data's immediately available in-memory ready to go. But here's the cool thing that I think you were getting at. You can build a structure one time, you build a table structure one time. On top of that, you just build views, logical views. And then your queries or your application looks at the logical view. Now logical views aren't somethin' new. It was just horrible to do it on a disk-based databse. >> Yep, very digital. >> You have to do tons of optimizations. In a memory database, it doesn't matter. It's all there. You just look at the logical view. So we're going to see people stacking up more and more and more logical views. Specifically in the analytics case, we see that all the time. From a partner standpoint, they're going to build their table structure, and then mix and match different application types using logical views. And you know, in HANA, we provide calc views and attribute views. So even better ways to do that. >> But the bottom line is the way you get to that ability to take a tile and drop it into a system and add that functionality, is because that underlying platform can support that view in an almost unlimited way. >> Exactly, whether the data is in HANA in the Cloud, or whether the data is still on premise through a direct connection back in the existing HANA system on premise. >> Of course unstructured data complicates the database equation, but also they have to coexist with the schemas and the structured databases out there. Has that thrown a curve ball at you guys at all? Or not a problem at all with HANA? >> So you know we've got an answer for that with Vora. I don't know if you've talked to any of the Vora folks, but you know what Vora brings to the party is it brings in-memory capabilities. It's an in-memory indexer for dup data. So instead of pointing your sequel query or building a MapReduce or using Hive or one of those technologies-- >> Or data lakes-- >> Or whatever, you just point it at Vora, and it's already indexed in memory. So our plan and our hope is that soon Vora will be on the HANA Cloud Platform. So that's just another piece of technology-- >> Peter: Way of generating a view. >> It's another service that we provide for generating a view on top of the dup data. >> Yeah, that's key. So talk about the Ecosystem innovation. Because one of the things I loved in McDermott's opening keynote, and I love the term, business model innovation. 'Cause that just really speaks to a whole new level of innovation. Usually it's tech innovation. >> Yeah. >> You get destructive enablers, platforms. At the end of the day, the application of the tools and platforms, however they're developed, by whomever, impact something. That's the business. That's the revenue. These new processes that are emerging. IoT is a great example. It's kind of an unknown process. It's hard to automate that workflow because it's evolving in real time. What innovations can you point to that you see, and that SAP sees as key mile markers, if you will, that shows that these things are being innovated on the business model side with the Ecosystem? >> Yeah, I'll give you two examples, one that's kind of just a speed up. And then I'll give you one that's a business model. So Hamburg Port Authority is the Port Authority for Hamburg, the second largest port in Europe. For them to keep up with the competition, they're going to have to double and triple in the next 15 years, the amount of goods going through their port. They have nowhere to build out. They cannot make their port bigger. It's surrounded by a city. There's nowhere for them to go. So they're using HANA Cloud Platform to basically create a grid. They're creating a utility or a cell network grid of all the containers that are sensorized, all of the trucks that have telematics information in the trucks. And they're also bringing in traffic information so that when the container comes in, they can bring the exact truck in that needs to get it in the right path into the port. If you think about that, that's a cellular network. And that's what they built using HANA Cloud Platform. So it's a semi-change in business model for the technology-- >> So minutes matter to them. >> Seconds matter to them, literally. The faster they can match up the container with the truck that's going to move that container, the better off they are. >> They got to clear the inventory. Sounds like a business problem. >> Exactly, exactly right? And think about it, they're probably going to sensorize the ships as well. They're going to stage those guys coming in over time. >> John: What's the other example? >> The other example is really interesting. This small company in Germany that builds forklifts, There can be nothing more pedantic than a forklift. It picks up a pallet, it moves the pallet, it puts it down. So here's what this company's done. It's called Still Forklifts. They are using HANA Cloud Platform to match up their order system, which is an SAP with the forklifts that are sensorized on HANA Cloud Platform so that the order system will send the order to get picked by the forklift. And the forklift and the order system have the maps of where everything is in the warehouse. >> The client's order system. >> The client's order system. And they've also now, they haven't done it yet, but they're working on a forklift to forklift integration so that if this guy's over in this part of the warehouse he has to pick something up over here. This forklift is over here. They meet in the middle. Trade some product, get it out to the docking station. >> So the forklift is an IoT device to the order system. And it opens up the possibility of greater automation within the warehouse floor. >> And they've changed their business model. They're no longer selling forklifts. They're selling pounds of goods moved within the warehouse. From in the warehouse to shipped. And they're billing on a monthly basis based on pounds of goods shipped. They're not selling forklifts anymore. That is pretty cool. >> So that's a complete shift. >> That's a business model shift. >> It's an outcome shift. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> They're selling the outcome. >> Exactly, exactly. And they had to think differently about their business. They had to think, we are not a forklift operator. We're a goods mover operator. >> Or to your business model, we were a forklift operator. Now we're a goods mover, an in-warehouse goods mover. >> Exactly, exactly. >> That's a great example and also a huge innovation. Because now, as the keynotes were saying, people are afraid to go out of business. And so the opportunity for the Ecosystem is, put one of those guys at check. They'll get the check. If they don't move, you take their territory. >> Exactly. >> So it's a nice cycle, SAP wins on both sides. >> On both sides, yeah, very cool. >> All right Dan, I got to ask you the question. Plans for this year, you got the Apple. You got the Cloud Platform. You have all this goodness goin' on. What's the plans for the year. Give us a taste of some of the things that you want to achieve this year, out in the market. And what KPIs are you looking at-- >> Yeah, what are we going to be talking about this time next year? >> I think we're going to be talking about what did you guys do in the area of Cloud Foundry. Have you guys really delivered on your Cloud Foundry promise of going opensource and moving toward portability? So next year, if we're fortunate enough to speak again, That's what I want you to ask me. Where are you guys on delivering Cloud Foundry? Pushing opensource, open development for developers even further as we talked at the outset of the interview. And then secondly, where are we on the API business hub? What is SAP doing to expose the thousands of business services that we have to our customers? To be able to use the HANA Cloud Platform with a catalog of business services that we're exposing to help them extend or modify or build that new application. >> And new onboarding numbers, having numbers showing both. >> That's right. Now what that means from a revenue standpoint, it means, you know we got to double or triple our business next year. We're not talkin' a 10%, 15% growth. We're talking an order of magnitude growth for our part of the business. >> And so you'll be investing more in marketing, training, tools. >> All of the above, all of the above. >> Hey, companies want to get into the enterprise, and the existing enterprise suppliers want to stay in the enterprise. >> Exactly, exactly. >> John: So it's a good time to be an arms dealer. >> Exactly, and we'll supply it with the HANA Cloud Platform. >> John: Dan, thanks so much for sharing your insight here on theCube. Really appreciate it, and great to meet your team. >> As well. >> And everyone here has been fantastic. We are live, here in Orlando. The theme is live, here at SAP this year. And of course we got the live coverage from theCube. This is theCube, I'm John Furrier, with Peter Burris. We'll be right back. You're watchin' theCube. (soft electronic music)