(orchestral string music) >> Welcome to this special Cube Conversation here in our Palo Alto studios, the Cube office here. I'm John Furrier, the co-founder of SiliconAngle Media, and also the co-host of the Cube. Our next guest is Jeremy Almond who is the CEO of PayStand, a hot startup doing some really new things in and around Blockchain, decentralized, and really targeting the B to B space on a really compelling and an interesting topic that a lot of people are interested in. Jeremy, welcome to this Cube Conversation. >> Awesome, thank you John. >> John: Hey, so tell me a little bit about the company and set the table for us...Paystand, what you guys are doing, why you were founded, and what's the disruptive enabler you guys are taking? What's the angle of your business? >> Jeremy: Yeah, sure...so Paystand, like you mentioned, is a B to B software platform specifically focused on payment. So you can imagine what PayPal or Venmo does from the consumer level. We do for complicated commercial transactions between accounts receivable and accounts payable departments that normally would be paying with paper checks in a manual process. >> John: So basically, accounting, ledger, I'm kind of guessing...nice fit for Blockchain... >> Correct, yeah, yeah. So what we do is we apply Blockchain technology to help a company speed up their time-to-cash, automate their business process, and dramatically lower their transaction costs. >> I'll get your thoughts on this...I interviewed Don Tapscott at an event and we were riffing on this notion of the nature of the firm, right? People would come to an office, you'd have accounting, all these things that you'd have to put in place of systems. Now with this decentralized world we're living in, internet, and with Blockchain in particular, and a crypto-currency market that's pretty frothy but, you know, you look at Blockchain and separate those two for a minute, you really can look at ways to change how work is organized. How do you guys view that? I mean, it's obviously a new, big wave coming. Then you got businesses who are just trying to operate and make money, right? Keep the lights on, but they almost have to start rethinking about the future. So, what is this block wave...Blockchain wave coming? How do you talk about that? Is it that disruptive? I mean, certainly centralized databases aren't going away anytime soon, but it's coming. What's your thoughts in reaction to that? >> It's coming, you know...I think it's... It will affect the enterprise which is where we spend our time and space, in a lot of ways like Cloud did, right? So I've spent probably 15 years doing un-sexy B to B tech, in some way, shape, or form. And what we've seen is digital transformation in the enterprise has happened in a few key areas. CRM is now in the Cloud, right? You have companies like SalesForce that have become significant. ERP is now in the Cloud, your financial software is now automated, right? Kind of ironically, the last mile piece, that part that lubricates the business, the core of the business, the money-movement piece, is actually still really, really manual. So, you have humans that sit around and they take an invoice and then a paper check and then they move it, and that process is very, very ineffecient. And so, having a more automatic, smart financial system can improve the business's life in really significant ways. >> Also, you know, one of the things we've been commenting on and opining here on the Cube is... I made a statement a couple weeks ago, "Oh, MarTech"...you know, marketing technology wave, all those logos on those landscape slides, "didn't really pan out 'cause the Cloud kind of changes that." I mean, it's panning out, but not the way people thought. FinTech...financial tech...is also certainly important. Banks, subsidy trading, you see that. What is the inhibitor for these new trends? Because you mentioned they're moving paper around. I mean, it's money, they probably don't want to mess with an operational system that's core to their business. Is it fear? Is it tech? Both? What's your view on why it's taking so long? Or is it moving along at a speed you think it's going to... Be adopted? >> Jeremy: Yeah, it's actually kind of a unique point in time right now. I think on one hand, financial services in general, part of their job is to manage risk, right? And so they're going to be a lagging, in some ways, industry. And so, digital transformation, right? The internet has opened up and democratized media. It's opened up so many other areas. Blockchain now is the entry point for digital transformation of financial services, and so the time is probably right, right now. We've been in the space...we started the company in 2014. And, you know, I've seen over the last three years, hearing banks, other large institutions, large enterprises, go from skepticism to curiosity. >> John: What's the technology stack look like? Obviously four years is, like, decades in the Blockchain world, and obviously, people are running as fast as they can. It's kind of a moving train at many levels. Business model side as well as a tech stack. And this is really the opportunity. A lot of these systems... I mean, some of the e-commerce systems are 20-year-old tech stacks, some are even older. >> Jeremy: Yeah. >> Just going back four years, since you were founded... What's the big moving glacier, if you will, of change and how are you guys managing that? How should people think about managing the risk of the tech stack? >> Jeremy: Yeah, I mean I think...you know... On the Blockchain-specific side... in the early days, a lot of it was about currency, and actual payment, right? I think what we're seeing now is the opportunity for Blockchain, particularly in the enterprise, to actually dramatically improve their operations side, right? Ethereum, private Blockchains... actually have the ability to not just decentralize how money movement or networks operate, but how an internal system operates. I'll give you an example...we used the Blockchain to... A private Blockchain to actually control approval workflow. So when a payment goes out, oftentimes you need your accounts payable person to send a payment out, but the controller or the treasury or someone else has to sign off on it, right? So that signature, you need it to be valid, trusted, the identity around it, right? And you want an audit record. And so Blockchain's a really, really good use case for something like that. That's not peer-play payments, it's not peer-play settlement. It doesn't require, you know, a million people to get on. It just can operate in the business in a really critical function, in a better way than the current technology does. >> John: It's interesting, I love these new technology opportunities 'cause... There's always going to be a tipping point and the famous Steve Jobs quote is, "Hey if I was asked to build a better "phone in 2005, I would have built an excellent... "better Blackberry." But he...then he built the iPhone, so he thought differently. No one was really asking for the iPhone. The question I get a lot from skeptics in Blockchain is, "No one's really asking for Blockchain." So, again, this is kind of like...you could always say, "I'm building a better centralized database system "in a distributed computing environment." Okay, we've done that. >> Yeah. >> Are people asking for Blockchain, or are they just asking for it in a different way? What's your thoughts to that? >> Yeah, I would say that there's... There's a big picture question of, "Are people asking for it." And I'd say society's actually asking for it. Part of my personal story is, you know, my family, blue collar family, they... My mother's side immigrated here, her generation. My brick-layer father, they spent their entire lives getting their first home. And you know, 800 square foot home, that's nothing special, but it was their American dream. In 2008, in the financial crisis, they lost the house. And so I think, you know, society said, "Financial services and core parts of our economy "actually could...we could do better, right?" And I think the magic thing about technology is we get to imagine the world not as it is but as it ought to be. So one, I think society is actually asking for... Can the core parts of our economy actually do better? Can we dream up something better? And I think that's the purest part of what the folks in the Blockchain movement are trying to do. That's, you know, at a very high level. And then I think, practically, right, for businesses like we operate day in and day out...you know... If there's technology that allows them to be able to operate their business more efficiently, drop their costs and grow faster, you know... How would that work, right? It's in some ways like Cloud. How does Cloud work? You know, I think... now we're really getting into the deep mess of it, but you know, Cloud was transformative to the business, right? VOIP was transformative to some businesses. Inbound marketing was transformative to some businesses. Blockchain is the same kind of concept. >> I mean, and Cloud, too...there was a lot of naysayers. I remember I used the first EC2 instances of Amazon when it came out, being an entrepreneur, I'm like, "I don't have to provision servers? "This is amazing, I can put my credit card down "and pay a few bucks..." And then even still, up until, I would say, even three or four years ago they were dismissed as relevant. >> Jeremy: Yeah. >> And again, the rest is history, look what they've done. So there's always going to be those naysayers. But to the point about Cloud and Blockchains, and even crypto, this is a wave, and we've, you know... We're very bullish on this movement because we see the wave coming way out there and it's huge. This is probably bigger than the other waves combined, in our opinion. So you mentioned societal change. This is a big deal. I mean, you're seeing regulations right now in GDPR in Europe, kind of trying to govern an old database market that's...it's a mess, database wise. But it makes sense from a society standpoint. People want to pull their data out. This is a trend. You got societal forces, and then technical legacy. I mean, this could be an opportunity for Blockchain to say, "Hey, optimize for the new wave." Don't try to retrofit, say, an old wave. What's your thoughts? >> Jeremy: Correct, yeah, I mean I think there's a... ...a number of areas... Even in the data cyber society. Take an Enron scandal, right? That happened a decade plus ago. Out of that came regulation called Sarbanes-Oxley, right? And Sarbanes-Oxley's concept, right, is to ensure that companies publicly account for their records in a proper way, right? If there's an audit trail, that they don't sort of take their financial systems and misrepresent them, right? Blockchain, because it's a source of truth that's immutable, meaning it can't be changed, is a great way, right, to have more efficiency in that process. Today there's a whole industry that's popped up just for Sarbanes-Oxley, just to regulate the financial system, just to ensure that the books actually say what they're supposed to say, right? That's kind of the definition of what a smart contract can and should do. >> John: This is really an opportunity for entrepreneurs, if you think about it. I mean, a lot of alpha entrepreneurs are really licking their chops on Blockchain because they can see how it could disrupt industries. And I showed you some of the things we're working on, and what we're thinking about for SiliconAngle about media and data. But it brings up things that we obviously see every day in the press: the election, weaponizing content for bad things. Facebook's having a challenge right now on how they optimize their data for their own self-service reasons. This is a problem, this is a revolution. People are kind of tired, so...what's your view of the role of data to the human? I mean, obviously, you know, the cliche: "Oh, the users are in charge, "they should own their own data." Okay I got that. But how...how do you see that vision playing out? I mean not just from a Facebook which is a social network example, but how does data impact a user going forward in your vision? Because they could really change from the outside in. >> Yeah, I mean I think...part of what's critical with data is two things: one, identity really matters, right? How do you manage identity? And so I think there's a number of really fascinating Blockchain companies that are specifically focused on the identity question, right? And that's...that's true around the social media side, it's true around...how do I actually manage where I move... Identity around? So I think that's one side that's really, really critical to solve. I don't know that we've got a crystal ball yet on what it will ultimately look like. But the Blockchain model for identity allows us to... rethink the fabrics of what privacy is, what permission looks like, and what trust looks like with people I want to engage with and with people I don't want to engage with. It's interesting, you talk about the Blockchain culture being more societal and mission-driven. My word, but you're kind of implying that. I remember when the Cloud came out, it was... The network guys were in charge, and the app guys were like, have to feed off the network requirements. And then that sea-change flipped around. The app guys are in charge, data driving requirements for the network. Question for you is: Do you see a day, soon, where societal requirements will dictate technology? I mean, you're seeing... you're seeing that pattern kind of emerging now, it's kind of not yet been fully thought through in public commentary but, you know...we see these pressure points potentially impacting tech design. >> Jeremy: Yeah, yeah...I think there's actually a good tug-of-war or balance, right? So entrepreneurs naturally are going to run as fast as they can to see innovation hopefully with means of improving society, right? And then, you know, you have regulators and you have government agencies who are looking and saying, "Okay, you might be thinking about one myopic view "and we need to make sure "we're looking at the good of society." And so I think that tug-of-war you saw with the internet, right, where how much do we regulate the internet, right? And I think the balance was mostly healthy. And we're sort of seeing that through today with Blockchain as well, where...you know, things like ICOs have good and bad implications. The regulators have been watching it relatively closely. But they also haven't completely came down and clamped down on it, you know, even this week there's... There was a relative balance in the discussions that came out. >> John: The SEC's done a good job, they've... >> Correct. >> John: They whipped a few people in shape to send the signal, but they weren't foreclosing any innovation. >> Jeremy: That's correct, yeah. >> And ICOs...certainly there're some scams. What's the good sides of ICO? Obviously the scams are out there. What's the good side? The fundraising? Democratization? What's your take on the ICO? Initial coin offering opportunity. >> Yeah, you know, I think...in some ways, democratization has become such a buzzword it's lost its meaning, right? But if you think about what it really is, it's so powerful, because it's this concept, right, that we distribute power and control to the hands of many. And so, you know, I think there are a lot of public good technologies that actually can use that concept, right? The internet is a public good. You could argue Wikipedia is a public good, right? And so, utility-type tokens actually are valuable because they can have a dual nature to them. I think the other thing that I'm particularly interested in watching how ICOs evolve is...I think there's some danger in ICOs...coming in and... in the early stage market. Because early stage companies tend to be... They're so nascent that they need guidance, right? And I actually...I might be contradictory here to most people in the Blockchain space, but I actually think early stage investors have a lot of value in that space. And so, I am actually fascinated about what happens in later stage rounds and what do ICOs become there. So I think utility, and later stage rounds are actually two fascinating areas of ICOs. >> John: Sure, that's a great point. I would also say that the trend that we're seeing is... There's an early stage component that needs mentoring and needs some nurturing, I would agree with that. That's a classic VC, maybe some token economics in there, but again, different playbook. The tokenization of business is really interesting 'cause now you have token economics being applied to a preexisting, proven business, with a disruptive nature on the other side, is super interesting. So I have to ask you: Are we going to have a chief economic officer as a new role soon? Or, is that going to be...'cause remember, if you think about token economics, it's about opening up and changing the distribution of data and wealth, you can argue both are the same, but...how do you view that? Because that's a trend we're seeing. The tokenization of a business to disrupt an industry incumbent...set of incumbents. >> Correct, yeah, and I think it's a... it's really, really early days and what... You have really early stage companies that are thinking about tokenizing their business before they exist, right? And then you have other companies which are maybe past the innovation curve and they're trying to apply tokens to their business. >> A pivot of an existing business. >> Yeah, so we've seen these, right? Public companies that have added Blockchain to the name. I think the fascinating thing will become where... Fast-growing, real businesses, where there's a there there, they've crossed the chasm, go, "Okay how do we apply "tokenization to our company? "And how do we think about it, from both a... "commercial economic part of the business, "and then how do we think about it "from tokenizing the business?" And we haven't seen many cases yet, but I actually think that's one of the next waves we'll see. >> John: Great insight. I got to ask you on a personal level. You're doing some talking, obviously the founder of the company, CEO. What's going on? What do you talk about these days? What are you passionate about? I know you were talking to some folks at UC Santa Barbara. You mentioned going to teach down there. What are you talking about? What are you sharing publicly? what's on your mind these days? >> Yeah, I mean, I think...I'm personally deeply motivated every day by waking up and going, you know, "The financial service industry can go through a massive transformation, right? And I think there's a lot of really good companies that are doing that at the consumer level, and so, you know, I think our space...we have a unique place in time to be working at the commercial level. So the commercial level affects big parts of our economic infrastructure in ways that we don't think about. The Equifax breach was a pretty big deal to people, right? The financial crisis was a big deal to people. So, how do we imagine those kinds of industries, right? Supply chain, title, logistics, right? And how do we think about those industries, democratizing them with Blockchain? Those, to me, are the unsung heroes of what Blockchain will ultimately help transform society. >> John: It's interesting, you said you were kind of humble when you came on earlier. "I'm in boring areas of B to B..." But I got to say to your point about Cloud earlier, there's a calm before the storm, these boring areas that are, say, calm are really the grounds where you see disruption, and I think that's an area... Not just high-frequency trading, that's going to be, you know, always an issue, but in terms of real financial plumbing. >> Yeah. >> Perfect for a ledger, perfect for those things. Okay, take a plug for your company. How are people using you guys? What's the value proposition? What are some of the things that you guys are involved in? How does someone engage with you guys? Give the plug for PayStand. >> Yeah, so at PayStand, we tend to work with companies where there are high volumes of paper checks in the process. So if you have a $100,000 invoice that goes out, for example, with a company that you've been working at for a decade, and you have a contract that says it's a Net 60 contract, right? The challenge is, it's a paper check, you want to move it digitally, what do you move it digitally to? And the reality is the consumer payment companies that are focused on credit cards are not really an ideal solution for that because their business model is a percentage business model. There's nothing wrong with a percentage business model that charges a company two or three percent if I'm swiping for a five dollar cup of coffee, right? If it's a $100,000 payment that I owe someone that I know, and I have contract terms, I'm not going to pay the bank $3,000 to move ones and zeroes from this bank database to this bank database. So what we do with our network is we make that money movement fast, instant, automatic, verified, validated, right, with control, in a way where we can automate the process. >> It's so funny what jumped in my mind is punch cards to computers, tape to storage. This is interesting. So paper checks, probably big, I don't know what the numbers are, you might have them handy. People are doing paper checks, so you're building a system around paper checks, did I get that right? >> Yeah, so we digitize what would have been a paper check. Today over 50 percent of all commercial payments are still done in paper checks. So they're gone in our digital world, right? Like, you and I, we Venmo each other. But when a business goes to write a check, when they get an invoice, they send out a check. And so we digitize the whole process. The moment that the invoice is ready to go, to the moment it gets in the bank, it all becomes digital space. >> John: And the alternative is what, I got to go check when it was mailed, was it received, was it cashed, did it get put into the accounting system? And that's kind of... >> Jeremy: That's correct. >> That's the manual... >> Jeremy: That's the manual. So they spend...they'll spend a week tracking down the payment from the moment the controller says, "Okay to pay," to the time it sits in their bank account, that's humans, time, money. >> And an old, antiquated system that doesn't change because of...what? >> Jeremy: Well, it's legacy infrastructure in one way. But in another, you know, even the banking infrastructure, the...most of the banking infrastructure that are for commercial payments was designed in the 60s and 70s. And last time I checked, the 60s and 70s was before the internet of today. So they weren't really designed for digital realtime payments. And they weren't designed for commercial use cases like today. >> Is fraud a factor, or is that not a factor? Is that part of it, or...yes? >> Jeremy: Yeah and I think a key thing with what we do, enterprise payments, security is really, really important. We take it very, very seriously. And this is, again, one of the downsides to the legacy commercial infrastructure. When you have a check, right? You have this checking and routing number on it. Anybody takes that, in theory, that's all that identifies you and your company and your account. And so money can actually be moved and ran against in that case. With a network like ours, we can validate that you are who you say you are, you have the money in your account, it moved when it should, and you've actually authorized it. These are all things that we should know, but we just don't. >> John: And you take the data around it, you take that check, put it into the system. Okay so when does a company want...should be calling you. Is it like, "I'm overloaded with paper, "I want a new system, I'm doing a refresh." I mean, when do people call PayStand? What's the signals that would give your buyer some indicator of time to call PayStand? >> Yeah, so generally it's after...it's when they have high-volumes of checks and they're growing, and/or that they've basically taken their ERP, and they've done an ERP Cloud migration, right? And so now they've got their general ledger, and that financial system's not in a shoebox anymore, right? It's in a critical core ERP system. And so what they're finding is they've bought digital transformation for financial services and their accountant only sort of has half the solution. And so they come in and they use us to close the last mile. >> John: Okay, so I'm going to put my naysayer hat on and ask you the question: I love it, but what's this Blockchain thing? I'm an accounting guy, took one computer class, whatever, I get blockchained. How do you stay up to date, how do you ensure that I'm going to have a system that's going to be working? I know that Blockchain standards are changing. How do you guys mitigate that? How do you handle that question? >> Jeremy: Yeah, I mean I think the critical thing for our customers, right, is... For us, our customers, money moves in dollars, right? It leaves their bank account, and goes into their supplier's bank account, the supplier's bank account goes into their customer's bank account, right? Their financial system does not change. We're actually very, very sensitive to that. We think about this very different than a consumer solution, which is...consumer solutions almost have a... A critical mass question. They need everybody to get into the system for it to work. For commercial, you don't actually want to change the business process of your partners, right? It's really important, they've been doing this...so... So we are very thoughtful about our software doesn't change business process, it doesn't require you to enter into some kind of new economy or a new currency. You simply do what you're always doing, with the systems you're already using, right? And we just digitize the process to make them faster, cheaper, and automated. >> Awesome. Talk about your goals for the year at PayStand. Where are you guys at, company-wise? Funding, goals, hiring, what's going on? Give a quick final word on the company. >> Jeremy: Yeah, I mean I think we...you know... We're blessed right now, I would say we're one of, if not the fastest B to B payment company... fastest-growing B to B payment company today. So, you know, I think we have a long way to go... I would call this inning two for us, right? We ultimately...I think much more about what does 10 years look like than 12 months look like. Because this is the beginning of the commercial financial service wave. And so, you know, I think we ultimately believe the digital transformation is going to reinvent our industry. And if we can go lead the way, we'll be very happy. QAnd for us that just means continue growing, continue serving our customers, continue hiring, you know. I think if we do all that, you know, right place right time. >> John: Awesome...final question for you. To the folks out there watching, you're an expert in the industry...again, fintech as well as computer engineering. If my sister who is not savvy says, "Jeremy, what is Blockchain?" How would you describe Blockchain to someone who's interested and needs to know the definition and importance of Blockchain? >> Jeremy: Okay, so Blockchain, to me, is basically a way to be able to take information like you might have on your checkbook, or you might have in a spreadsheet, and use it where anybody can access it in a way that's actually easily, controllable, visible, secure, and automated. That doesn't sound very sexy, but the important thing is how we keep records affects all of society, right? We have records of who owns their houses, we have records of how much money we have in our account, we have records of who did we vote on, right? Those records are the foundation for our society. Currently companies own those records. Companies are fallible, right? And so what Blockchain does is it allows us to make a more infallible system to keep access to those records you and I care about. >> John: And this is an infrastructure opportunity, not so much crypto currency... kind of a distinction between the two, right? >> That's right, that's right. I would say crypto currency and money is like the first pillar app on top of Blockchain. >> John: Jeremy Almond, CEO, founder of PayStand, hot company, doing something really good in a growing, changing market called checks, paper checks, and if you have them and groan, digitize them. Great entry strategy for Blockchain. Thanks for coming on this Cube Conversation. And thanks for joining us here in Palo Alto. I'm John Furrier in the Cube Studios for Cube Conversations. Thanks for watching. (exciting orchestral music)

(orchestral music) >> Welcome to the special Cube Conversation here at Palo Alto studios, at the Cube office yeah I'm John Furrier, the co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media, and also co-host the Cube. Our next guest is Jeremy Almond is the CEO of Paystand, hot startup doin' some really new things in and around blockchain, decentralize, and really targeting the B2B space on a really compelling and interesting topic that a lot of people are interested in. Jeremy welcome to this Cube conversation. >> Awesome, thank you John. >> Hey so talk a little about the company, set the table for us, PayStand, what you guys are doing, why you were founded, and what's the disruptive enabler that you guys are taking, and what's the angle of your business? >> Yeah sure so, PayStand like you mentioned, is a B2B software platform, specifically focused on payment. So, you can imagine what Paypal or Venmo does from the consumer level, we do for complicated commercial transactions between accounts receivable and accounts payable departments that normally would be paying with paper checks in manual process. >> So basically accounting, ledger, I'm kind of guessing. Nice bit for blockchain. >> Correct, yeah, yeah. So, what we do is we apply blockchain technology to help a company speed up their time to cash, automate their business process and dramatically lower their transaction cost. >> I'll get your thoughts on this. I interviewed Don Tapscott at an event and we were riffing on this notion of the nature of the firm, right? People would come to an office, you'd have accounting, all these things that you'd have to put in place as systems. Now with this decentralized world we're living in, internet and with blockchain in particular, and a cryptocurrency market that's pretty frothy. But, you look at blockchain and you separate those two for a minute. You really can look at ways to change how work is organized. How do you guys view that, I mean, It's obviously a new, big wave coming. Then you've got businesses who are just trying to operate and make money, right? So, keep the lights on, but they also have to start rethinking about the future. So, what is this block wave, blockchain wave coming? How do you talk about that? Is it that disruptive? I mean, certainly centralized databases aren't going a away any time soon, but it's coming. What's your thoughts and reaction to that? >> It's coming. You know, I think it's... It will effect the enterprise, which is where we spend our time and space. In a lot of ways like cloud did. So, I've spent probably 15 years doing unsexy B2B tech in some way shape or form. And what we've seen is digital transformation in the enterprise has happened in a few key areas. CRM is now in the cloud. You have companies like Salesforce that have become significant. ERP is now in the cloud, you're financial software is now automated. Kind of ironically the last mile piece, the part that lubricates the business, the core of the business, the money movement piece, is actually still really, really manual. So, you have humans that sit around and they take an invoice and then a paper check and then they move it. And that process is very, very inefficient. And so, having a more automatic, smart financial system can improve the business's life in really significant ways. >> Also, you know, one of the things we've been commenting on opining here on the Cube is, I made a statement a couple weeks ago, OMAR tech, marketing technology, Wave, all those logos on those landscape slides, didn't really pan out cause the cloud kind of changed that. It's panning out, but not the way people thought. FinTech, financial tech, is also certainly important. Banks of safe trading, you see that. What is the inhibitor for these new trends? Because you mentioned moving paper around. I mean it's money, they probably don't want to mess with an operational system that's a quarter of their business. Is it fear? Is it tech? Both? What's your view on why it's taking so long? Or is it moving along at a speed you think is going to... Being adopted? >> Yeah, it's actually kind of a unique point in time right now. I think in one hand, financial services in general, part of their job is to manage risk. And so, they're going to be a lagging, in some ways, industry. And so, digital transformation, the internet has opened up and democratized media. It's opened up so many other areas. Blockchain, now, is the entry point for digital transformation of financial services. And so, the time is probably right now. We've been in the space. We started the company in 2014. I'd seen over the last three years, hearing banks, other large institutions, large enterprises go from skepticism to curiosity. >> What's the technology stack look like? Obviously, four years is like decades in the blockchain world. Obviously, people are running as fast as they can. It's kind of a moving train, at many levels, business model side, as well as the tech stack. And this is really the opportunity a lot of these systems-- I mean some of the e-commerce systems are 20 year old tech stacks, some are even older. Just going back four years since you were founded, what's the big moving glacier, if you will, of change and how are you guys managing that? And how should people think about managing the risk of the tech stack? >> Yeah, I mean, I think on the blockchain specific side, in the early days a lot of it was about currency and actual payment. I think what we're seeing now is the opportunity for blockchain, particularly in the enterprise, to actually dramatically improve their operations side. So, Ethereum, private blockchains, actually have the ability to, not just decentralize how money movement or networks operate, but how an internal system operates. I'll give you an example, we used the blockchain to-- A private blockchain to actually control approval work flow. So when a payment goes out, often times you need your accounts payable person to send a payment out, but the controller or the treasury or someone else has to sign off on it. So that signature, you need it to be valid, trusted, the identity around it, right? And you want an audit record. And so blockchains a really, really good use case for something like that. That's not pure play payments, it's not pure play settlement, it doesn't require a million people to get on. It just can operate in the business in a really critical function in a better way than the current technology does. >> It's interesting. I love these new technology opportunities, cause there's always going to be a tipping point and the famous Steve Jobs quote is, "Hey, if I was asked to build a better phone "in 2005 I would've built an excellent, better Blackberry" But then he built the Iphone, so he thought differently. No one was really asking for the Iphone. So, the question I get a lot from skeptics in blockchain is, no one's really asking for blockchain. So, again, this is kind of like, you could always say, I'm building a better centralized database system in a distributive computing environment. Okay, we've done that. >> Yeah >> Are people asking for blockchain? Or are they just asking for it in a different way? What's your thoughts to that? >> Yeah, I would say that there's a big picture question of are people ask for it? And I'd say, society is actually asking for it. Part of my personal story is, my family, blue collar family, my mother's side immigrated here, her generation. My brick layer father, they spent their entire lives getting their first home. 800 square foot home, it was nothing special, but it was their American dream. In 2008, in the financial crisis, they lost that house. And so I think society said financial services and core parts of our economy actually could-- we could do better. And I think the magic thing about technology is we get to imagine the world not as it is, but as it ought to be. So, one, I think society is actually asking for can the core parts of our economy actually do better? Can we dream up something better? I think that's the purest part of what the folks in the blockchain movement are trying to do. That's at a very high level. And then I think practically, right, for businesses like we operate day in and day out, if there's technology that allows them to be able to operate their business more efficiently, drop their costs and grow faster, how would that work? It's in some ways like cloud. How does cloud work? I think now we're really getting into the deep mess of it. But cloud was transformative to the business. VOIP was transformative to some businesses. Inbound marketing was transformative to some businesses. Blockchain is the same kind of concept. >> And cloud too, there's a lot of naysayers. I remember I use the first EC2 instances of Amazon, when it came out being an entrepreneur I don't have to have provision servers. This is amazing. And I can put credit card down and pay a few bucks? And then even still, up until three or four years ago, they were dismissed as relevant. And, again, the rest is history. Look what they've done. So, there's always going to be those naysayers. But, to the point about cloud and blockchain, and say even crypto, this is a wave and we are very bullish on this movement because we see the waves coming way out there and it's huge. And this is probably bigger than the other waves combined, in our opinion. So, you mentioned societal change. This is a big deal. You're seeing regulations right now in GDPR, in Europe. Trying to govern an old database market, that's even in an own problem. It's a mess database wise. But it makes sense from a society standpoint. People want to pull their data out. This is a trend. You've got societal forces and then technical legacy. This could be an opportunity for a blockchain to saying, hey optimize for the new wave, don't try to retrofit, say, an old wave. What's your thoughts? >> Correct. Yeah, I think there's a number of areas, even in the data side with society. Take an Enron scandal that happened a decade plus ago. Out of that came regulation called Sarbanes-Oxley. And Sarbanes-Oxley's concept is to ensure that companies publicly account for their records in the proper way. That there's an audit trail. That they don't, sort of, pick their financial systems and misrepresent them. The blockchain, because it's a source of truth that's immutable, meaning it can't be changed, is a great way to have more efficiency in that process. Today, there's a whole industry that's popped up just for Sarbanes-Oxley, just to regulate the financial system, just to ensure that the books actually say what their supposed to say. That's kind of the definition of what a smart contract can and should do. >> This is though, really an opportunity for entrepreneurs when you think about it. A lot of alpha entrepreneurs are really lickin' their chops on blockchain, because they can see how it could disrupt industries. And this is really, again, I showed you some things we're working on and what we're thinking about with SiliconANGLE about media and data. But it brings up things that we, obviously, see every day in the press. The election, weaponizing content for bed, things-- Facebooks having a challenge right now in how they optimize their data for their own self service reasons. This is a problem. This is a revolution. People are kind of tired. So, what's your view of the role of data to the human? Obviously the cliche, oh the users are in charge, they should own their own data. Okay, I get that, but how do you see that vision playing out? Not just from Facebook, that's just a social network example. But how does data impact a user going forward in your vision? Because they could really change from the outside in. >> Yeah, I think part of what's critical with data is two things. One, identity really matters. How do you manage identity? So, I think there's a number of really fascinating blockchain companies that are specifically focused on the identity question. And that's true around the social media side. It's true around, how do I actually manage where I move identity around? So, I think that's one side that's really, really critical to solve. I don't know that we've got a crystal ball yet on what it will ultimately look like. But the blockchain model for identity allows us to rethink the fabrics of what privacy is, what permission looks like and what trust looks like with people I want to engage with and with people I don't want to engage with. >> That's interesting. You talk about the blockchain culture being more societal and mission driven, my word, but you're kind of implying that. I remember when the cloud came out. It was, the network guys were in charge and the app guys had to feed off the network requirements. And then that seat changed, flipped around. The app guys are in charge, data is driving requirements for the network. Question for you is do you see a day soon where societal requirements will dictate technology? You're seeing that pattern kind of emerging now, kind of not yet been fully thought through in public commentary. We see the pressure points potentially impacting tech design. >> Yeah, I think there's actually a good tug of war balance. So, entrepreneurs naturally are going to run as fast as they can to see innovation. Hopefully with means of improving society. And then you have regulators and you have government agencies who are looking and saying okay, you might be thinking about one myopic view and we need to make sure we're looking at the good of society. And so, I think that tug of war you saw with the internet, where how much do we regulate the internet? And I think the balance was mostly healthy. And we're sort of seeing that through today with blockchain as well. Where things like ICOs have good and bad implications. The regulators have been watching it relatively closely. But they also haven't completely came down and clamped down on it. Even this week there's... There was a relative balance in the discussions that came out. >> The SECs done a great job. >> Correct. >> They've whipped a few people into shape, sent the signal, but they weren't foreclosing any innovation. >> That's correct. >> And ICOs certainly had some scams. What's the good sides of ICOs? Obviously the scams are out there. What's the good sides? The fundraising, democratization? What's your take on the ICO, initially coin offering opportunity? >> Yeah, I think in some ways democratization has become such a buzz word it's lost it's meaning. But if you think about what it really is it's so powerful, because it's this concept that we distribute power and control to the hands of many. And so, I think there are a lot of public, good technologies that actually can use that concept. The internet is a public good. You could agree Wikipedia is a public good. And so, utility type tokens actually are valuable, because they can have a dual nature to them. I think the other thing, that I'm particularly interested in watching how ICOs evolve, is-- I think there's some danger in ICOs coming in, in the early stage market. Because early stage companies tend to be... They're so nascent that they need guidance. And I actually, I might be contradictory here to most people in the blockchain space, but I actually think early stage investors have a lot of value in that space. And so, I am actually fascinated about what happens in later stage rounds and what do ICOs become there. So, I think utility and later stage rounds are actually two fascinating areas of ICOs. >> Jeremy, that's a great point. I would also say that the trend that we're seeing is: there's an early stage component that needs mentoring and needs some nurturing, I would agree with that. That's a classic VC-- Maybe some token economics in there, but again different playbook. The tokenization of business is really interesting, cause now you have token economics being applied to a pre-existing proven business with a disruptive nature on the other side. >> Correct. >> Is super interesting. So, I have to ask you. Are we going to have a chief economic officer as a new role soon? Or is that going to be-- Cause it made me think about token economics it's about opening up and changing the distribution, or data and wealth, you could argue both are the same. But how do you view that? Because that's a trend were seeing. The tokenization of a business to disrupt an industry incumbent, set of incumbents. >> Correct, yeah. And I think it's really, really early days in what... You have really early stage companies that are thinking about tokenizing their business before they exist. And then you have other companies which are maybe past the innovation curve and their trying to apply tokens to their business. >> A pivot of an old, existing business. >> Yeah, so we've seen these, right? Public companies that have added blockchain to their name. I think the fascinating thing will become where fast growing, real businesses where there's a there, there. They've crossed the chasm. Go, okay, how do we apply tokenization to our company? And how do we think about it, from both a commercial economic part of the business and then how do we think about it from tokenizing the business? We haven't seen many cases yet, but I actually think that's one of the next waves we'll see. >> Great. Great insight. I got to ask you, on a personal level, you're doing some talking, obviously your the founder of the company, CEO, what's goin' on? What are you talking about these days? What are you passionate about? I know your talking to some folks at University of Santa Barbara. You mentioned going to teach down there. What are you talking about? What are you sharing publicly? What's on your mind these days? >> Yeah, I think I'm personally deeply motivated every day by waking up and going. The financial service industry can go through a massive transformation. And I think there's a lot of really good companies doing that at the consumer level. And so, I think our space, we have a unique place and time to be working at the commercial level. So, the commercial level effects big parts of our economic infrastructures in ways that we don't think about. The Equifax breach was a pretty big deal to people, right? The financial crisis was a big deal to people. So, how do we imagine those kinds of industries? Supply chain, title, logistics. And how do we think about those industries democratizing them with blockchain? Those, to me, are the unsung heroes of what blockchain will ultimately help transform society. >> That's interesting. You said you were kind of humble when you came on earlier. I'm in boring areas of B2B, but I got to say, to see your point about cloud earlier. There's a calm before the storm, these boring areas that are, say, calm, are really the grounds where you see disruption. I think that's an area-- Not just high frequency trading, that's going to be always an issue, but in terms of real financial plumbing. Perfect for a ledger, perfect for those things. Okay, explain-- Take a plug for your company. How are people using you guys? What's the value proposition? What are some of the things you guys are involved in? How does someone engage with you guys? Give the plug for Paystand. >> Yeah, so at Paystand we tend to work with companies where there are high volumes of paper checks in the process. So if you have a hundred thousand dollar invoice that goes out, for example, with a company you've been working out with for a decade. And you have a contract that says it's a net 60 contract. The challenge is, it's paper check. You want to move it digitally. What do you move it digitally to? And the reality is, the consumer payment companies that are focused on credit cards are not really an ideal solution for that because their business model is a percentage business model. And there's nothing wrong with a percentage business model that charges a company two or three percent if I'm swiping for a five dollar cup of coffee. If it's a hundred thousand dollar payment that I owe someone that I know and I have a contract terms. I'm not going to pay the bank 3,000 dollars to move ones and zeros from this bank database to this bank database. So, what we do with our network is we make that money movement fast, instant, automatic, verified, validated with control, in a way that we can automate the process. >> It's so funny. What jumps into my mind is punchcards to computers, tape to duck storage. This is interesting. So, paper checks, probably big, I don't know what the numbers are, you might have them handy. People are doing paper checks. So, you're doing a system around paper checks, did I get that right? >> Yeah, so we digitized what would have been a paper check. Today, over 50 % of all commercial payments are still done in paper checks. So, they're gone in our digital world. You and I, we Venmo each other. But when the business goes to write a check, when they get an invoice they send out a check. And so we digitized the whole process. The moment that the invoice is ready to go to the moment it gets in the bank. It all becomes digital space. >> And the alternative is what? I got to go check when it was mailed, was it received, was it cashed, did it get put into the accounting system? And that's kind of, that's the manual-- >> That's the manual. So, they'll spend a week tracking down the payment. From the moment the controller says okay to pay, to the time it sits in their bank account. That's humans, time, money. >> And an old antiquated system that doesn't change because of what? >> Well it's legacy infrastructure in one way. But in another, even the banking infrastructure-- Most of the banking infrastructure that are for commercial payments was designed in the 60s and 70s. And last time I checked, the 60s and 70s was before the internet today. So, they weren't really designed for digital real time payments. And they weren't designed for commercially used cases like today. >> Is fraud a factor or is that not a factor? Or is that not a part of it? Or yes? >> Yeah, I think a key thing with what we do, enterprise payments, is security is really, really important. We take it very, very seriously. And this is, again, one of the down sides to the legacy commercial infrastructure is when you have a check, you have this checking and routing number on it. Anybody takes that, in theory, that's all that identifies you and your company and your account. Money can actually be moved and ran against in that case. With a network like ours, we can validate that you are who you say you are, you have the money in your account, it moved when it should and you've actually authorized it. These are all things that we should know, but we just don't. >> And you put the data around it. You take that payload, aka check, put it into the system. So, when does a company want-- Should be calling you? Is it like, I'm overloaded with paper. I want a new system. I'm doing a refresh. When do people call Paystand? What's the signals that would give your buyer some indicator of time to call Paystand? >> Yeah, so generally it's after-- It's when they have high volumes of checks and they're growing. And, or, that they've basically taken their ERP and they've done an ERP cloud migration. So, now they've got their general ledger and that financial system is not in a shoebox anymore, it's in a critical, core ERP system. And so, what they're finding is they bought digital transformation for financial services and their accountant only sort of has half the solution. And so they come in and they use us to close the last mile. >> Okay, so I'm going to put my naysayer hat on and ask you the question. I love it, but what's this blockchain thing? I'm an accounting guy. Look at one computer class or whatever, I get blockchain. How do you stay up to date? How do you ensure that I'm going to have a system that's going to be working? I know that blockchain standards are changing. How do you guys mitigate that? How do you handle that question? >> Yeah, I think the critical thing for our customers is for us, our customers, money moves in dollars. It leaves their bank account and goes into their supplier's bank account. The supplier's bank account goes into their customer's bank account. Their financial system does not change. We're actually very, very sensitive to that. We think about this very different than a consumers solution. Which is, consumer solutions almost have a critical mass question. They need everybody to get into the system for it to work. For commercial, you don't actually want to change the business process of your partners. It's really important, they've been doing this. So, we are very thoughtful about our software. It doesn't change business process. It doesn't require you to enter into come kind of new economy or new currency. You simply do what your always doing with the systems you're already using. And we just digitize the process to make them faster, cheaper and automated. >> Awesome. Talk about your goals for the year with Paystand. Where you guys at company wise? Funding? Goals? Hiring? What's going on? Give a quick final word on the company. >> Yeah, I think we're blessed right now. I would say we're one of, if not the fastest B2B payment companies, fastest growing B2B payment companies today. I think we have a long way to go. I would call this inning two for us. We ultimately-- I think much more about what does ten years look like than twelve months look like because this is the beginning of the commercial financial service way. And so, I think we ultimately believe that digital transformation is going to reinvent our industry. And if we can go lead the way we'll be very happy. And for us that just means continue growing, continue serving our customers, continue hiring. I think if we do all that... Right place, right time. >> Awesome. Final question for you. The folks out there watching, your an expert in the industry, again, FinTech as well as computer engineering. If my sister, who is not savvy, says Jeremy what is blockchain? How would you describe blockchain to someone who's interested and needs to know the importance definition and the importance of blockchain? >> Okay, so blockchain to me is basically a way to be able to take information like you might have on your techbook or you might have in a spreadsheet and use it where anybody can access it in a way that's actually easily controllable, visible, secure and automated. That doesn't sound very sexy, but the important thing is how we keep records effects all of society. We have records of who owns our houses. We have records of how much money we have in our account. We have records of who did we vote on. Those records are the foundation for our society. Currently, companies own those records. Companies are fallible And so, what blockchain does, is it allows us to make a more infallible system to keep access to those records you and I care about. >> And this is an infrastructure opportunity, not so much cryptocurrency, kind of a distinction between those two, right? >> That's right. I would say, cryptocurrency and money is like the first pillar app on top of blockchain. >> Jeremy Almond, CEO, founder of Paystand, hot company doing something really good in a growing, changing market called checks, paper checks. And if you have um', grow um', digitize them. Great entry strategy for blockchain. Thanks for coming on this Cube Conversation. Thanks for joining us here in Palo Alto. I'm John Furrier in the Cube studios For Cube conversation, thanks for watching. (orchastral music)

>>And welcome to the cubes coverage of Couchbase connect online, Mary Roth, VP of engineering operations with couch basis here for Couchbase connect online. Mary. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on remotely for this segment. >>Thank you very much. It's great to be here. >>Love the fire in the background, a little fireside chat here, kind of happening, but I want to get into shooting, you know, engineering and operations with the pandemic has really kind of shown that, you know, engineers and developers have been good working remotely for a while, but for the most part it's impacted companies in general, across the organizations. How did the Couchbase engineering team adapt to the remote work? >>Uh, great question. Um, and I actually think the Couchbase team responded very well to this new model of working imposed by the pandemic. And I have a unique perspective on the couch space journey. I joined in February, 2020 after 20 plus years at IBM, which had embraced a hybrid in-office rewrote remote work model many years earlier. So in my IBM career, I live four minutes away from my research lab in almond and valley, but IBM is a global company with headquarters on the east coast and SU. So throughout my career, I often found myself on phone calls with people around the globe at 5:00 AM in the morning, I quickly learned and quickly adopted to a hybrid model. I'd go into the office to collaborate and have in-person meetings when needed. But if I was on the phone at >> 5: 00 AM in the morning, um, I didn't feel the need to get up at 4:30 AM to go in. >>I just worked from home and I discovered I could be more productive. They're doing think time work. And I really only needed the in-person time for collaboration. These hybrid model allowed me to have a great career at IBM and raise my two daughters at the same time. So when I joined Couchbase I joined a company that was all about being in-person and instead of a four minute commute, it was going to be an hour or more commute for me each way. This was going to be a really big transition for me, but I was excited enough by couch facing what it offered that I decided to give it a try. Well, that was February, 2020. I showed up early in the morning on March 10th, 2020 for an early morning meeting in person only to learn that I was one of the only few people that didn't get the memo. >>We were switching to a remote remote working model. And so over the last year, I have had the ability to watch cow's face and other companies pivot to make this remote working model possible and not only possible, but effective. And I'm really happy to see the results. Our remote work model does have its challenges that's for sure, but it also has its benefits better work-life balance and more time to interact with family members during the day and more quiet time, just to think we just did a retrospective on a major product release Couchbase server 7.0 that we did over the past 18 months. And one of the major insights by the leadership team is that working from home actually made people more effective. I don't think a full remote model is the right approach going forward, but a hybrid model that IBM adopted many years ago and that I was able to participate in for most of my career, I believe is a healthier and more productive approach. >>Well, great story. I love the, um, the, uh, you come back and now you take leverage all the best practices from the IBM days, but how did the, your team and the Couchbase engineering team react and were there any best practices or key learnings that you guys pulled out of that, >>Uh, the, the initial reaction was not good. I mean, as I mentioned, it was a culture based on in-person people had to be in person in person meetings. So it took a while to get used to it, but the, there was a forcing function, right? We had to work remotely. That was the only option. And so people made it work. I think the advancement of virtual meeting technology really, really helps a lot over earlier days in my career where I had just bad phone connections, that was very difficult. But with the virtual meetings that you have, where you can actually see people and interact, I think is really quite helpful. >>What's the DNA of the culture. What's the DNA. Every company's got the DNA entails Moore's law. Um, and at what's the engineering culture at Couchbase like if you could describe it. >>Uh, the engineering culture at Couchbase is very familiar to me. We are at our heart, a database company, and I grew up in the database world, which has a very unique culture based on two values, merit and mentorship. And we also focus on something that I like to call growing. The next generation. Now database technology started in the late sixties, early seventies with a few key players and institutions. These key players were extremely bright and they tackle it and solve really hard problems with elegant solutions long before anybody knew they were going to be necessary. Now, those original key players, people like Jim gray, Bruce Lindsey, Don Chamberlin, pat Salinger, David Dewitt, Michael Stonebraker. They just love solving hard problems. And they wanted to share that elegance with a new generation. And so they really focused on growing the next generation of leaders, which became the Mike caries and the Mohans and the lower houses of the world. And that culture grew over multiple generations with the previous generation cultivating, challenging and advocating for the next, I was really lucky to grow up in that culture. And I've advanced my career as a result, as being part of it. The reason I joined Couchbase is because I see that culture alive and well, here are two fundamental values on the engineering side, our merit and mentorship. >>One of the things I want to get your thoughts on, on the database questions. I remember, you know, back in the old glory days, you mentioned some of those luminaries, you know, there wasn't many database geeks out there, Zuri kind of small community now is databases are everywhere. So you see there's no one database that's ruling the world, but you starting to see a pattern of database kinds of things, and more emerging, more databases than ever before. They're on the internet, they're on the cloud. There are none the edge it's essentially we're living in a large distributed computing environment. So now it's cool to be in databases cause they're everywhere. So, I mean, this is kind of where we're at. What's your reaction to that? >>Uh, you're absolutely right there. There used to be a, a few small vendors and a few key technologies and it's grown over the years, but the fundamental problems are the same data, integrity, performance and scalability. And in the face of district distributed systems, those were all the hard problems that those key leaders solve back in the sixties and seventies. They're not, they're not new problems. They're still there. And they did a lot of the fundamental work that you can apply and reapply in different scenarios and situations. >>It's pretty exciting. I love that. I love the different architectures that are emerging and allows for more creativity for application developers. And this becomes like the key thing we're seeing right now, driving the business and a big conversation here at the, at the event is the powering, these modern applications that need low latency. There's no more, not many spinning disks anymore. It's all in Ram, all these kinds of different memory, you got decentralization and all kinds of new constructs. How do you make sense of it all? How do you talk to customers? What's the, what's the, what's the main core thing happening right now? If you had to describe it? >>Yeah, it depends on the type of customer you're talking to. Um, we have focused primarily on the enterprise market and in that market, there are really fundamental issues. Information for, for these enterprises is key. It's their core asset that they have and they understand very well that they need to protect it and make it available more quickly. I started as a DBA at Morgan Stanley back, um, right out of college. And at the time I think it was, it probably still is, but at the time it was the best run it shop that I'd ever seen in my life. The fundamental problems that we had to solve to get information from one stock exchange to another, to get it to the sec, um, are the same problems that we're solving today. Back then we were working on mainframes and over high-speed data comm links today, it's the same kind of problem. It's just the underlying infrastructure has changed. >>You know, the key has been a big supporter of women in tech. We've done thousands of interviews on why I got you. I want to ask you, uh, if you don't mind, um, career advice that you give women who are starting out in the field of engineering, computer science, what do you wish you knew when you started your career? And you could be that person now, what would you say? >>Yeah, well, there are a lot of things I wish I knew then, uh, that I know now, but I think there are two key aspects to a successful career in engineering. I actually got started as a math major and the reason I, I became a math major is a little convoluted. Is it as a girl, I was told we were bad at math. And so for some reason I decided that I had to major in it. That's actually how I got my start. Um, but I've had a great career and I think there are really two key aspects first. And is that it is a discipline in which respect is gained through merit. As I had mentioned earlier, engineers are notoriously detail oriented and most of our perfectionist, they love elegant, well thought out solutions and give respect when they see one. So understanding this can be a very important advantage if you're always prepared and you always bring your a game to every debate, every presentation, every conversation you have build up respect among your team, simply through merit. While that may mean that you need to be prepared to defend every point early on say, in your graduate career or when you're starting over time, others will learn to trust your judgment and begin to intuitively follow your lead just by reputation. The reverse is also true. If you don't bring your a game and you don't come prepared to debate, you will quickly lose respect. And that's particularly true if you're a woman. So if you don't know your stuff, don't engage in the debate until you do. That's awesome. >>That's >>Fine. Continue. Thank you. So my second piece of advice that I wish I could give my younger self is to understand the roles of leaders and influencers in your career and the importance of choosing and purposely working with each. I like to break it down into three types of influencers, managers, mentors, and advocates. So that first group are the people in your management chain. It's your first line manager, your director, your VP, et cetera. Their role in your career is to help you measure short-term success. And particularly with how that success aligns with their goals and the company's goals. But it's important to understand that they are not your mentors and they may not have a direct interest in your long-term career success. I like to think of them as say, you're sixth grade math teacher. You know, you're getting an a in the class and advancing to seventh grade. >>They own you for that. Um, but whether you get that basketball scholarship to college or getting to Harvard or become a CEO, they have very little influence over that. So a mentor is someone who does have a shared interest in your longterm success, maybe by your relationship with him or her, or because by helping you shape your career and achieve your own success, you help advance their goals. Whether it be the company success or helping more women achieve, we do put sip positions or getting more kids into college, on a basketball scholarship, whatever it is, they have some long-term goal that aligns with helping you with your career. And they gave great advice. But that mentor is not enough because they're often outside of the sphere of influence in your current position. And while they can offer great advice and coaching, they may not be able to help you directly advance. >>That's the role of the third type of influencer. Somebody that I call an advocate, an advocate is someone that's in a position to directly influence your advancement and champion you and your capabilities to others. They are in influential positions and others place, great value in their opinions. Advocates stay with you throughout your career, and they'll continue to support you and promote you wherever you are and wherever they are, whether that's the same organization or not. They're the ones who, when a leadership position opens up will say, I think Mary's the right person to take on that challenge, or we need to move in a new direction. I think Mary's the right person to lead that effort. Now advocates are the most important people to identify early on and often in your career. And they're often the most overlooked people early on, often pay too much attention and rely on their management chain for advanced managers, change on a dime, but mentors and advocates are there for you for the long haul. And that's one of the unique things about the database culture. Those set of advocates were just there already because they had focused on building the next generation. So I consider, you know, Mike Carey is my father and Mike Stonebraker is my grandfather. And Jim gray is my great-grandfather and they're always there to advocate for me. >>That's like a scheme and a database. You got to have it all white. They're kind of teed up. Beautiful, great advice. >>Thank you for that. That was really a masterclass. And that's going to be great advice for folks really trying to figure out how to play the cards they have a and the situation and to double down or move and find other opportunities. So great stuff there. I do have to ask you Maira, thanks for coming on the technical side and the product side Couchbase Capella was launched, uh, in conjunction with the event. What is, what is the bottom line for that as, as an operations and engineering, you know, built the products and roll it out. What's the main top line message for about that product? >>Yeah, well, we're very excited about the release of Capella and what it brings to the table is that it's a fully managed in an automated database cloud offering so that customers can focus on development and building and improving their applications and reducing the time to market without having to worry about the hard problems underneath and the operational database management efforts that come with it. Uh, as I mentioned earlier, I started my career as a UVA and it was one of the most sought after and highly paid positions in it because operating a database required so much work. So with Capella, what we're seeing is, you know, taking that job away from me, I'm not going to be able to apply for a DBA tomorrow. >>That's great stuff. Well, great. Thanks for coming. I really appreciate congratulations on the company and public offering this past summer in July and thanks for that great commentary and insight on the QPR. Thank you. >>Thank you very much. >>Okay. Mary Ross, VP of engineering operations at Couchbase part of Couchbase connect online. I'm John furry host of the cube. Thanks for watching.

[Music] we're on welcome to the special cube conversation we're here with some breaking news we got some startup investment news here in the Q studios palo alto I'm John for your host here at Jerry Chen partnered Greylock and the CEO of rock said Venkat Venkat Rahmani welcome to the cube you guys announcing hot news today series a and seed and Series A funding 21 million dollars for your company congratulations thank you Roxette is a data company jerry great this is one of your nest you kept this secret forever it was John was really hard you know over the past two years every time I sat in this seat I'd say and one more thing you know I knew that part of the advantage was rocks I was a special company and we were waiting to announce it and that's right time so it's been about two and half years in the making I gotta give you credit Jerry I just want to say to everyone I try to get the secrets out of you so hard you are so strong and keeping a secret I said you got this hot startup this was two years ago yeah I think the probe from every different angle you can keep it secrets all the entrepreneurs out there Jerry Chen's your guide alright so congratulations let's talk about the startup so you guys got 21 million dollars how much was the seed round this is the series a the seed was three million dollars both Greylock and Sequoia participating and the series a was eighteen point five all right so other investors Jerry who else was in on this I just the two firms former beginning so we teamed up with their French from Sequoia and the seed round and then we over the course of a year and half like this is great we're super excited about the team bank had Andrew bhai belt we love the opportunity and so Mike for an office coin I said let's do this around together and we leaned in and we did it around alright so let's just get into the other side I'm gonna read your your about section of the press release roxette's visions to Korea to build the data-driven future provide a service search and analytics engine make it easy to go from data to applications essentially building a sequel layer on top of the cloud for massive data ingestion I want to jump into it but this is a hot area not a lot of people are doing this at the level you guys are now and what your vision is did this come from what's your background how did you get here did you wake up one Wednesday I'm gonna build this awesome contraction layer and build an operating system around data make this thing scalable how did it all start I think it all started from like just a realization that you know turning useful data to useful apps just requires lots of like hurdles right you have to first figure out what format the data is in you got to prepare the data you gotta find the right specialized you know data database or data management system to load it in and it often requires like weeks to months before useful data becomes useful apps right and finally you know after I you know my tenure at Facebook when I left the first thing I did was I was just talking you know talking to a lot of people with real-world companies and reload problems and I started walking away from moremore of them thinking that this is way too complex I think the the format in which a lot of the data is coming in is not the format in which traditional sequel based databases are optimized for and they were built for like transaction processing and analytical processing not for like real-time streams of data but there's JSON or you know you know parque or or any of these other formats that are very very popular and more and more data is getting produced by one set of applications and getting consumed by other applications but what we saw it was what is this how can we make it simpler why do we need all this complexity right what is a simple what is the most simple and most powerful system we can build and pulled in the hands of as many people as possible and so we very sort of naturally relate to developers and data scientists people who use code on data that's just like you know kind of like our past lives and when we thought about it well why don't we just index the data you know traditional databases were built when every byte mattered every byte of memory every byte on disk now in the cloud the economics are completely different right so when you rethink those things with fresh perspective what we said was like what if we just get all of this data index it in a format where we can directly run very very fast sequel on it how simple would the world be how much faster can people go from ideas to do experiments and experiments to production applications and how do we make it all faster also in the cloud right so that's really the genesis of it well the real inspiration came from actually talking to a lot of people with real-world problems and then figuring out what is the simplest most powerful thing we can build well I want to get to the whole complexity conversation cuz we were talking before we came on camera here about how complexity can kill and why and more complexity on top of more complexity I think there's a simplicity angle here that's interesting but I want to get back to your background of Facebook and I want to tell a story you've been there eight years but you were there during a very interesting time during that time in history Facebook was I think the first generation we've taught us on the cube all the time about how they had to build their own infrastructure at scale while they're scaling so they were literally blitzscaling as reid hoffman and would say and you guys do it the Greylock coverage unlike other companies at scale eBay Microsoft they had old-school one dotto Technology databases Facebook had to kind of you know break glass you know and build the DevOps out from generation one from scratch correct it was a fantastic experience I think when I started in 2007 Facebook had about 40 million monthly actives and I had the privilege of working with some of the best people and a lot of the problems we were very quickly around 2008 when I went and said hey I want to do some infrastructure stuff the mandate that was given to me and my team was we've been very good at taking open source software and customizing it to our needs what would infrastructure built by Facebook for Facebook look like and we then went into this journey that ended up being building the online data infrastructure at Facebook by the time I left the collectively these systems were surveying 5 plus billion requests per second across 25 plus geographical clusters and half a dozen data centers I think at that time and now there's more and the system continues to chug along so it was just a fantastic experience I think all the traditional ways of problem solving just would not work at that scale and when the user base was doubling early in the early days every four months every five months yeah and what's interesting you know you're young and here at the front lines but you're kind of the frog in boiling water and that's because you are you were at that time building the power DevOps equation automating scale growth everything's happening at once you guys were right there building it now fast forward today everyone who's got an enterprise it's it wants to get there they don't they're not Facebook they don't have this engineering staff they want to get scale they see the cloud clearly the value property has got clear visibility but the economics behind who they hire so they have all this data and they get more increasing amount of data they want to be like Facebook but can't be like Facebook so they have to build their own solutions and I think this is where a lot of the other vendors have to rebuild this cherry I want to ask you because you've been looking at a lot of investments you've seen that old guard kind of like recycled database solutions coming to the market you've seen some stuff in open source but nothing unique what was it about Roxette that when you first talk to them that but you saw that this is going to be vectoring into a trend that was going to be a perfect storm yeah I think you nailed it John historic when we have this new problems like how to use data the first thing trying to do you saw with the old technology Oh existing data warehouses akin databases okay that doesn't work and then the next thing you do is like okay you know through my investments in docker and B and the boards or a cloud aerosol firsthand you need kind of this rise of stateless apps but not stateless databases right and then I through the cloud area and a bunch of companies that I saw has an investor every pitch I saw for two or three years trying to solve this data and state problem the cloud dudes add more boxes right here's here's a box database or s3 let me solve it with like Oh another database elastic or Kafka or Mongo or you know Apache arrow and it just got like a mess because if almond Enterprise IT shop there's no way can I have the skill the developers to manage this like as Beckett like to call it Rube Goldberg machination of data pipelines and you know I first met Venkat three years ago and one of the conversations was you know complexity you can't solve complex with more complexity you can only solve complexity with simplicity and Roxette and the vision they had was the first company said you know what let's remove boxes and their design principle was not adding another boxes all a problem but how to remove boxes to solve this problem and you know he and I got along with that vision and excited from the beginning stood to leave the scene ah sure let's go back with you guys now I got the funding so use a couple stealth years to with three million which is good a small team and that goes a long way it certainly 2021 total 18 fresh money it's gonna help you guys build out the team and crank whatnot get that later but what did you guys do in the in those two years where are you now sequel obviously is lingua franca cool of sequel but all this data is doesn't need to be scheming up and built out so were you guys that now so since raising the seed I think we've done a lot of R&D I think we fundamentally believe traditional data management systems that have been ported over to run on cloud Williams does not make them cloud databases I think the cloud economics is fundamentally different I think we're bringing this just scratching the surface of what is possible the cloud economics is you know it's like a simple realization that whether you rent 100 CPUs for one minute or or one CPU 400 minutes it's cost you exactly the same so then if you really ask why is any of my query is slow right I think because your software sucks right so basically what I'm trying to say is if you can actually paralyze that and if you can really exploit the fluidity of the hardware it's not easy it's very very difficult very very challenging but it's possible I think it's not impossible and if you can actually build software ground-up natively in the cloud that simplifies a lot of this stuff and and understands the economics are different now and it's system software at the end of the day is how do I get the best you know performance and efficiency for the price being paid right and the you know really building you know that is really what I think took a lot of time for us we have built not only a ground-up indexing technique that can take raw data without knowing the shape of the data we can turn that and index it in ways and store them maybe in more than one way since for certain types of data and then also have built a distributed sequel engine that is cloud native built by ground up in the cloud and C++ and like really high performance you know technologies and we can actually run distributor sequel on this raw data very very fast my god and this is why I brought up your background on Facebook I think there's a parallel there from the ground this ground up kind of philosophy if you think of sequel as like a Google search results search you know keyword it's the keyword for machines in most database worlds that is the standard so you can just use that as your interface Christ and then you using the cloud goodness to optimize for more of the results crafty index is that right correct yes you can ask your question if your app if you know how to see you sequel you know how to use Roxette if you can frame your the question that you're asking in order to answer an API request it could be a micro service that you're building it could be a recommendation engine that you're that you're building or you could you could have recommendations you know trying to personalize it on top of real time data any of those kinds of applications where it's a it's a service that you're building an application you're building if you can represent ask a question in sequel we will make sure it's fast all right let's get into the how you guys see the application development market because the developers will other winners here end of the day so when we were covering the Hadoop ecosystem you know from the cloud era days and now the important work at the Claire merger that kind of consolidates that kind of open source pool the big complaint that we used to hear from practitioners was its time consuming Talent but we used to kind of get down and dirty the questions and ask people how they're using Hadoop and we had two answers we stood up Hadoop we were running Hadoop in our company and then that was one answer the other answer was we're using Hadoop for blank there was not a lot of those responses in other words there has to be a reason why you're using it not just standing it up and then the Hadoop had the problem of the world grew really fast who's gonna run it yeah management of it Nukem noose new things came in so became complex overnight it kind of had took on cat hair on it basically as we would say so how do you guys see your solution being used so how do you solve that what we're running Roxette oh okay that's great for what what did developers use Roxette for so there are two big personas that that we currently have as users right there are developers and data scientists people who program on data right - you know on one hand developers want to build applications that are making either an existing application better it could be a micro service that you know I want to personalize the recommendations they generated online I mean offline but it's served online but whether it is somebody you know asking shopping for cars on San Francisco was the shopping you know was the shopping for cars in Colorado we can't show the same recommendations based on how do we basically personalize it so personalization IOT these kinds of applications developers love that because often what what you need to do is you need to combine real-time streams coming in semi structured format with structured data and you have no no sequel type of systems that are very good at semi structured data but they don't give you joins they don't give you a full sequel and then traditional sequel systems are a little bit cumbersome if you think about it I new elasticsearch but you can do joins and much more complex correct exactly built for the cloud and with full feature sequel and joins that's how that's the best way to think about it and that's how developers you said on the other side because its sequel now all of a sudden did you know data scientist also loved it they had they want to run a lot of experiments they are the sitting on a lot of data they want to play with it run experiments test hypotheses before they say all right I got something here I found a pattern that I don't know I know I had before which is why when you go and try to stand up traditional database infrastructure they don't know how what indexes to build how do i optimize it so that I can ask you know interrogatory and all that complexity away from those people right from basically provisioning a sandbox if you will almost like a perpetual sandbox of data correct except it's server less so like you don't you never think about you know how many SSDs do I need how many RAM do I need how many hosts do I need what configure your programmable data yes exactly so you start so DevOps for data is finally the interview I've been waiting for I've been saying it for years when's is gonna be a data DevOps so this is kind of what you're thinking right exactly so you know you give us literally you you log in to rocks at you give us read permissions to battle your data sitting in any cloud and more and more data sources we're adding support every day and we will automatically cloudburst will automatically interested we will schematize the data and we will give you very very fast sequel over rest so if you know how to use REST API and if you know how to use sequel you'd literally need don't need to think about anything about Hardware anything about standing up any servers shards you know reindex and restarting none of that you just go from here is a bunch of data here are my questions here is the app I want to build you know like you should be bottleneck by your career and imagination not by what can my data employers give me through a use case real quick island anyway the Jarius more the structural and architectural questions around the marketplace take me through a use case I'm a developer what's the low-hanging fruit use case how would I engage with you guys yeah do I just you just ingest I just point data at you how do you see your market developing from the customer standpoint cool I'll take one concrete example from a from a developer right from somebody we're working with right now so they have right now offline recommendations right or every night they generate like if you're looking for this car or or this particular item in e-commerce these are the other things are related well they show the same thing if you're looking at let's say a car this is the five cars that are closely related this car and they show that no matter who's browsing well you might have clicked on blue cars the 17 out of 18 clicks you should be showing blue cars to them right you may be logging in from San Francisco I may be logging in from like Colorado we may be looking for different kinds of cars with different you know four-wheel drives and other options and whatnot there's so much information that's available that you can you're actually by personalizing it you're adding creating more value to your customer we make it very easy you know live stream all the click stream beta to rock set and you can join that with all the assets that you have whether it's product data user data past transaction history and now if you can represent the joins or whatever personalization that you want to find in real time as a sequel statement you can build that personalization engine on top of Roxanne this is one one category you're putting sequel code into the kind of the workflow of the code saying okay when someone gets down to these kinds of interactions this is the sequel query because it's a blue car kind of go down right so like tell me all the recent cars that this person liked what color is this and I want to like okay here's a set of candidate recommendations I have how do I start it what are the four five what are the top five I want to show and then on the data science use case there's a you know somebody building a market intelligence application they get a lot of third-party data sets it's periodic dumps of huge blocks of JSON they want to combine that with you know data that they have internally within the enterprise to see you know which customers are engaging with them who are the persons churning out what are they doing and they in the in the market and trying to bring they bring it all together how do you do that when you how do you join a sequel table with a with a JSON third party dumb and especially for coming and like in the real-time or periodic in a week or week month or one month literally you can you know what took this particular firm that we're working with this is an investment firm trying to do market intelligence it used age to run ad hoc scripts to turn all of this data into a useful Excel report and that used to take them three to four weeks and you know two people working on one person working part time they did the same thing in two days and Rock said I want to get to back to microservices in a minute and hold that thought I won't go to Jerry if you want to get to the business model question that landscape because micro services were all the world's going to Inc so competition business model I'll see you gets are funded so they said love the thing about monetization to my stay on the core value proposition in light of the red hat being bought by by IBM had a tweet out there kind of critical of the transactions just in terms of you know people talk about IBM's betting the company on RedHat Mike my tweet was don't get your reaction will and tie it to the visible here is that it seems like they're going to macro services not micro services and that the world is the stack is changing so when IBM sell out their stack you have old-school stack thinkers and then you have new-school stack thinkers where cloud completely changes the nature of the stack in this case this venture kind of is an indication that if you think differently the stack is not just a full stack this way it's this way in this way yeah as we've been saying on the queue for a couple of years so you get the old guard trying to get a position and open source all these things but the stacks changing these guys have the cloud out there as a tailwind which is a good thing how do you see the business model evolving do you guys talk about that in terms of you can hey just try to find your groove swing get customers don't worry about the monetization how many charging so how's that how do you guys talk about the business model is it specific and you guys have clear visibility on that what's the story on that I mean I think yeah I always tell Bank had this kind of three hurdles you know you have something worthwhile one well someone listen to your pitch right people are busy you like hey John you get pitched a hundred times a day by startups right will you take 30 seconds listen to it that's hurdle one her will to is we spend time hands on keyboards playing around with the code and step threes will they write you a check and I as a as a enter price offered investor in a former operator we don't overly folks in the revenue model now I think writing a check the biz model just means you're creating value and I think people write you checking screening value but you know the feedback I always give Venkat and the founders work but don't overthink pricing if the first 10 customers just create value like solve their problems make them love the product get them using it and then the monetization the actual specifics the business model you know we'll figure out down the line I mean it's a cloud service it's you know service tactically to many servers in that sentence but it's um it's to your point spore on the cloud the one that economists are good so if it works it's gonna be profitable yeah it's born the cloud multi-cloud right across whatever cloud I wanna be in it's it's the way application architects going right you don't you don't care about VMs you don't care about containers you just care about hey here's my data I just want to query it and in the past you us developer he had to make compromises if I wanted joins in sequel queries I had to use like postgrads if I won like document database and he's like Mongo if I wanted index how to use like elastic and so either one I had to pick one or two I had to use all three you know and and neither world was great and then all three of those products have different business models and with rocks head you actually don't need to make choices right yes this is classic Greylock investment you got sequoia same way go out get a position in the market don't overthink the revenue model you'll funded for grow the company let's scale a little bit and figure out that blitzscale moment I believe there's probably the ethos that you guys have here one thing I would add in the business model discussion is that we're not optimized to sell latte machines who are selling coffee by the cup right so like that's really what I mean we want to put it in the hands of as many people as possible and make sure we are useful to them right and I think that is what we're obsessed about where's the search is a good proxy I mean that's they did well that way and rocks it's free to get started right so right now they go to rocks calm get started for free and just start and play around with it yeah yeah I mean I think you guys hit the nail on the head on this whole kind of data addressability I've been talking about it for years making it part of the development process programming data whatever buzzword comes out of it I think the trend is it looks a lot like that depo DevOps ethos of automation scale you get to value quickly not over thinking it the value proposition and let it organically become part of the operation yeah I think we we the internal KPIs we track are like how many users and applications are using us on a daily and weekly basis this is what we obsess about I think we say like this is what excellence looks like and we pursue that the logos in the revenue would would you know would be a second-order effect yeah and it's could you build that core kernels this classic classic build up so I asked about the multi cloud you mention that earlier I want to get your thoughts on kubernetes obviously there's a lot of great projects going on and CN CF around is do and this new state problem that you're solving in rest you know stateless has been an easy solution VP is but API 2.0 is about state right so that's kind of happening now what's your view on kubernetes why is it going to be impactful if someone asked you you know at a party hey thank you why is what's all this kubernetes what party going yeah I mean all we do is talk about kubernetes and no operating systems yeah hand out candy last night know we're huge fans of communities and docker in fact in the entire rock set you know back-end is built on top of that so we run an AWS but with the inside that like we run or you know their entire infrastructure in one kubernetes cluster and you know that is something that I think is here to stay I think this is the the the programmability of it I think the DevOps automation that comes with kubernetes I think all of that is just like this is what people are going to start taking why is it why is it important in your mind the orchestration because of the statement what's the let's see why is it so important it's a lot of people are jazzed about it I've been you know what's what's the key thing I think I think it makes your entire infrastructure program all right I think it turns you know every aspect of you know for example yeah I'll take it I'll take a concrete example we wanted to build this infrastructure so that when somebody points that like it's a 10 terabytes of data we want to very quickly Auto scale that out and be able to grow this this cluster as quickly as possible and it's like this fluidity of the hardware that I'm talking about and it needs to happen or two levels it's one you know micro service that is ingesting all the data that needs to sort of burst out and also at the second level we need to be able to grow more more nodes that we we add to this cluster and so the programmability nature of this like just imagine without an abstraction like kubernetes and docker and containers and pods imagine doing this right you are building a you know a lots and lots of metrics and monitoring and you're trying to build the state machine of like what is my desired state in terms of server utilization and what is the observed state and everything is so ad hoc and very complicated and kubernetes makes this whole thing programmable so I think it's now a lot of the automation that we do in terms of called bursting and whatnot when I say clock you know it's something we do take advantage of that with respect to stateful services I think it's still early days so our our position on my partner it's a lot harder so our position on that is continue to use communities and continue to make things as stateless as possible and send your real-time streams to a service like Roxette not necessarily that pick something like that very separate state and keep it in a backhand that is very much suited to your micro service and the business logic that needs to live there continue should continue to live there but if you can take a very hard to scale stateful service split it into two and have some kind of an indexing system Roxette is one that you know we are proud of building and have your stateless communal application logic and continue to have that you know maybe use kubernetes scale it in lambdas you know for all we care but you can take something that is very hard to you know manage and scale today break it into the stateful part in the stateless part and the serval is back in like like Roxette will will sort of hopefully give you a huge boost in being able to go from you know an experiment to okay I'm gonna roll it out to a smaller you know set of audience to like I want to do a worldwide you know you can do all of that without having to worry about and think about the alternative if you did it the old way yeah yeah and that's like talent you'd need it would be a wired that's spaghetti everywhere so Jerry this is a kubernetes is really kind of a benefit off your your investment in docker you must be proud and that the industry has gone to a whole nother level because containers really enable all this correct yeah so that this is where this is an example where I think clouds gonna go to a whole nother level that no one's seen before these kinds of opportunities that you're investing in so I got to ask you directly as you're looking at them as a as a knowledgeable cloud guy as well as an investor cloud changes things how does that change how is cloud native and these kinds of new opportunities that have built from the ground up change a company's network network security application era formants because certainly this is a game changer so those are the three areas I see a lot of impact compute check storage check networking early days you know it's it's it's funny it gosh seems so long ago yet so briefly when you know I first talked five years ago when I first met mayor of Essen or docker and it was from beginning people like okay yes stateless applications but stateful container stateless apps and then for the next three or four years we saw a bunch of companies like how do I handle state in a docker based application and lots of stars have tried and is the wrong approach the right approach is what these guys have cracked just suffered the state from the application those are app stateless containers store your state on an indexing layer like rock set that's hopefully one of the better ways saw the problem but as you kind of under one problem and solve it with something like rock set to your point awesome like networking issue because all of a sudden like I think service mesh and like it's do and costs or kind of the technologies people talk about because as these micro services come up and down they're pretty dynamic and partially as a developer I don't want to care about that yeah right that's the value like a Roxanna service but still as they operate of the cloud or the IT person other side of the proverbial curtain I probably care security I matters because also India's flowing from multiple locations multiple destinations using all these API and then you have kind of compliance like you know GDP are making security and privacy super important right now so that's an area that we think a lot about as investors so can I program that into Roxette what about to build that in my nap app natively leveraging the Roxette abstraction checking what's the key learning feature it's just a I'd say I'm a prime agent Ariane gdpr hey you know what I got a website and social network out in London and Europe and I got this gdpr nightmare I don't we don't have a great answer for GDP are we are we're not a controller of the data right we're just a processor so I think for GDP are I think there is still the controller still has to do a lot of work to be compliant with GDP are I think the way we look at it is like we never forget that this ultimately is going to be adding value to enterprises so from day one we you can't store data and Roxette without encrypting it like it's just the on you know on by default the only way and all transit is all or HTTPS and SSL and so we never freaked out that we're building for enterprises and so we've baked in for enterprise customers if they can bring in their own custom encryption key and so everything will be encrypted the key never leaves their AWS account if it's a you know kms key support private VP ceilings like we have a plethora of you know security features so that the the control of the data is still with the data controller with this which is our customer but we will be the the processor and a lot of the time we can process it using their encryption keys if I'm gonna build a GDP our sleeves no security solution I would probably build on Roxette and some of the early developers take around rocks at our security companies that are trying to track we're all ideas coming and going so there the processor and then one of the companies we hope to enable with Roxette is another generation security and privacy companies that in the past had a hard time tracking all this data so I can build on top of rocks crack okay so you can built you can build security a gbbr solution on top rock set because rock set gives you the power to process all the data index all the data and then so one of the early developers you know stolen stealth is they looking at the data flows coming and go he's using them and they'll apply the context right they'll say oh this is your credit card the Social Security is your birthday excetera your favorite colors and they'll apply that but I think to your point it's game-changing like not just Roxette but all the stuff in cloud and as an investor we see a whole generation of new companies either a to make things better or B to solve this new category problems like pricing the cloud and I think the future is pretty bright for both great founders and investors because there's just a bunch of great new companies and it's building up from the ground up this is the thing I brought my mother's red hat IBM thing is that's not the answer at the root level I feel like right now I'd be on I I think's fastenings but it's almost like you're almost doubling down to your your comment on the old stack right it's almost a double down the old stack versus an aggressive bet on kind of what a cloud native stack will look like you know I wish both companies are great people I was doing the best and stuff do well with I think I'd like to do great with OpenStack but again their product company as the people that happen to contribute to open source I think was a great move for both companies but it doesn't mean that that's not we can't do well without a new stack doing well and I think you're gonna see this world where we have to your point oh these old stacks but then a category of new stack companies that are being born in the cloud they're just fun to watch it all it's all big all big investments that would be blitzscaling criteria all start out organically on a wave in a market that has problems yeah and that's growing so I think cloud native ground-up kind of clean sheet of paper that's the new you know I say you're just got a pic pick up you got to pick the right way if I'm oh it's gotta pick a big wave big wave is not a bad wave to be on right now and it's at the data way that's part of the cloud cracked and it's it's been growing bigger it's it's arguably bigger than IBM is bigger than Red Hat is bigger than most of the companies out there and I think that's the right way to bet on it so you're gonna pick the next way that's kind of cloud native-born the cloud infrastructure that is still early days and companies are writing that way we're gonna do well and so I'm pretty excited there's a lot of opportunities certainly this whole idea that you know this change is coming societal change you know what's going on mission based companies from whether it's the NGO to full scale or all the applications that the clouds can enable from data privacy your wearables or cars or health thing we're seeing it every single day I'm pretty sad if you took amazon's revenue and then edit edit and it's not revenue the whole ready you look at there a dybbuk loud revenue so there's like 20 billion run which you know Microsoft had bundles in a lot of their office stuff as well if you took amazon's customers to dinner in the marketplace and took their revenue there clearly would be never for sure if item binds by a long shot so they don't count that revenue and that's a big factor if you look at whoever can build these enabling markets right now there's gonna be a few few big ones I think coming on they're gonna do well so I think this is a good opportunity of gradual ations thank you thank you at 21 million dollars final question before we go what are you gonna spend it on we're gonna spend it on our go-to-market strategy and hiding amazing people as many as we can get good good answer didn't say launch party that I'm saying right yeah okay we're here Rex at SIA and Joe's Jerry Chen cube cube royalty number two all-time on our Keeble um nine list partner and Greylock guy states were coming in I'm Jeffrey thanks for watching this special cube conversation [Music]