>>Hello. Nice to meet you. My name is yes. Um Escuela. I'm a professor in a university in Japan. So today I want to introduce my research. That title is a really time emotional detection using e g with riel time knowing the reduction. First of all, I want to introduce myself. My major is system identification and signal processing for large removed and by American signal process for owner off them. A common technique. It's most magical. Modern by you creation using this opportunity identification method. So today topic it's e easy modern by the Barriers Council with heavy notes. We call this technique the concept moody. Now what is a concept? I mean, the concept is Japanese world because studies are first in Japan. So consider is similar to emotion and sensibility, but quite different. The commercial nous sensibility is innate ability. The concert is acquired after birth, so concept is similar to how to be So we focus on this can see using the brain signals. As for the brain Sina, there is ah, many way to know the brain. For example, the optical leading X c T m i m e g e g optical topography um, function and my by using these devices, we have three areas off research, for example, like neural engineering area for obligation, including new market neuroscience area for understanding the mechanism a medically oil area for treatment. So but it's very important to use, depending on the purpose. So what did they can be obtained? Uh, in the case of e g, we can see the activity of neurons that scalp the case of in years so we can attain the river off oxygen bar Pratt The case off natural and safe Alagem we can see the activity of new uh, that contact is neck case off position. Martian topography. We can get activity off reception by the contact list. If we use that, I we can measure the amount of blood by the contractors. These devices are showing these figures. So our motivation is to get the concept question using their model by system identification where it's not removed on. The second motivation is to theorize that's simple and small cancer X election using the each information when we use the ever my the large scale and the expensive on binding. So it is unuseful. So we focus on the EEG because the e g iss Moscow inexpensive a non binding on to use. So we focus on the energy. So e g is actually a potential from the major from the scalp that detective data is translated to the pregnancy domain. And if you can see domain that their point to 44. We call the data death of it 4 to 6. We called a cedar with on 17. 14 were called the Alfa Hour and 14 to 26. We called a better work in a conventional method we want if we want use the cats a deep sleep, we use that death of it in a case of light sleep we used a secretive and so but this is just only the sensible method. So we cannot use that for all the film Actuary accuracies under the 20%. So we need to define the situation original. So recall this technique council modeling. So these are the block diagram Kansi the concept What? So this field this part eyes for the noise, this part for the mathematical model. So we calculate this transfer function like this. This is a discrete time water, and, uh, this time, uh, is continuous time model. So then we really right this part Thio Discrete time water. So we cull Create, uh, this part us like this This'll first part on the second part is calculated by the party application so we can get this the argumentative model. So then that we were right this part by using that the transfer function transport formation. So we right this argument ID model like this. So the off about the inverse and better off the inverse is the point as this equation. So each the coefficient is corrugated by this equation on. But then we calculate a way too busy with beaver by using this because of a least squares algorithm. So we call this identification method the self joining identification method. Um, that this is an example of stories modeling. The first of all, we decide we gather the data like a story. It's moving. So we move the small beans, try to trade at 41 hour. So last 10 minutes we used as stories and we measure that culture soul for sliced levin Onda. We associate the egg and we measure the 8000 data. Uh, in 17 years we? Yeah, that's a 17 years. So in the case, off the simple, easy universes that there are many simply devices in the world like this so many of them the There we calculate the signal nodes. Lazio, The signal means the medical easy system on the each device made it sn Lazio. And we investigate 58 kinds off devices on almost off All devices are noise devices. So I'm also asked about to various parts more device that best. So my answer is anything. Our skill is, you know, processing on def. With love. Data can be obtained from the device. No, but what device? He may use the same result commission. Our novelty is level Signal processing on our system is structured by 17 years Data for one situation. So the my answer is what? Anything. So we applied this system to Arial product. We call this product concern Analyzer. In a concept analyzer, you can see the concept that right the our time a concept dinner influence Solis sickness concentration on like so that we combine that this can't say analyzer And the camera system We made the euro system your account so pretty show it this is in Eureka. Well, this is, uh, e g system and we can get can say by using the iPhone on the, uh, we combine the camera system by the iPhone camera and if the cancer is higher than the 6% 60% so automatically recorded like this. Mhm. So every time we wear the e g devices, we can see the no awareness, the constant way. That's so finally we combine the each off cancer. So like that this movie, so we can see the thes one days. Can't say the movie s Oh, this is a miracle. On the next example, it's neuro marketing using a constant analyzer. So this is a but we don't know what is the number one point. So then we analyze the deeds CME by using concert analyzer so we can get the rial time concept then that we can see the one by one situation like this. So this is the interest level and we can see the high interest like this. So the recorded a moment automatically on the next one is really application. The productive design. Ah, >>Japanese professor has come up with a new technology she claims can read minds, she says. The brainwave analysis system will help businesses better understand their customers, needs workers at a major restaurant chain or testing a menu item that is being developed. This device measures brain waves from the frontal lobes of people who try the product. An application analyzes five feelings how much they like something and their interest, concentration, stress and sleepiness. >>The >>new menu item is a cheese souffle topped with kiwi, orange and other fruit. The APP checks the reaction of a person who sees the souffle for the first time. Please open your eyes. When she sees the souffle, the like and interest feelings surge on the ground. This proves the desert is visually appealing. Now please try it. After the first bite, the like level goes up to 60. That shows she likes how the dessert tastes. After another bite, the like level reaches 80. She really enjoys the taste of the souffle. It scores high in terms of both looks and taste, but there's an unexpected problem. When she tries to scoop up the fruit, the stress level soars to 90. I didn't know where to put the spoon. I felt it was a little difficult to eat. It turned out it was difficult to scoop up the fruit with a small spoon. So people at the restaurant chain are thinking of serving this a flavor with a fork instead. Green well. How could be the difference with the device? We can measure emotional changes in minute detail in real time. This is a printing and design firm in Tokyo. >>It >>designs direct mail and credit card application forms. The company is using the brainwave analyzing system to improve the layout of its products. The idea is to make them easier to read during this test, The subject wears an eye tracking device to record where she's looking. In addition to the brainwave analyzing device, her eye movements are shown by the red dots on the screen. Stress levels are indicated on the graph on the left. Please fill out the form. This is a credit card application form. Right after she turns her eyes to this section, her stress levels shoots up. It was difficult to read as each line contained 60 characters, so they decided to divide the section in two, cutting the length of the lines by half 15 a Hong Kong. This system is very useful for us. We can offer differentiated service to our clients by providing science based solutions. The brain wave analyzed. >>Okay, uh, now the we construct a concert detection like this. Like this. Like concentration, interest sickness stories contain, like comfortable, uncomfortable. I'm present the rats emotion, deadly addictive case lighting, comfort, satisfaction and the achievement. So finally we conquer more presentation. So in this presentation, we introduce the our such we construct the council question Onda we demonstrate that c street signal processing and we apply the proposed method to Arial product. Uh, we named the constant riser. So this is the first in the world, that's all. Thank you so much.

(bright music) >> Well, hey, everybody. John Walls here with theCUBE continuing coverage at AWS re:Invent '22. It has been three really fantastic days here at the Venetian in Las Vegas. And we still have more to come with us to talk about Persistent Systems, the Senior Vice President of Cloud at Persistent Dominique Bastos. Dominique, good to see you. >> Pleasure to see you. >> Thanks for joining us here on the queue. >> Thank you for having me. >> Oh, you bet. You bet. >> Thank you. All right. Tell us about Persistent Systems. So, first off, core focus, what you're up to and then we'll jump in from there. >> Sure, sure. So Persistent Systems is a digital engineering solutions and services provider. They've been around for 32 years doing software engineering, innovating in several areas within different verticals. There's over 22,500 people at Persistent now as of my last count. We're in 18 countries. >> Mm. >> And in October we hit the $1 billion annualized recurring revenue mark. >> Oh, that's a good number right there. >> It's a good number. It's a great company. It's been such an interesting journey. I was with AWS for almost seven years before recently joining Persistent, and it almost felt like a such a logical transition in terms of bringing what I've seen in my entire career of interacting with customers and businesses to what Persistent can provide as people are looking to make their journey to the cloud whatever stage they might be at so. >> Right. And we should point out is that SVP of Cloud, but your focus is AWS. >> My focus AWS. >> Other options, other opportunities. >> Right. >> But you're AWS all the way. >> Right. It's a multicloud company because, you know, we really don't believe in dictating to a customer what they need. I think the benefit, one of the differentiators for Persistent is the amount of legacy history that they have across these industries and customers. I mean, 32 years is a lot, and in terms of like software engineering. So it's like really doing the hard work, the heavy lifting. And then seeing what can actually be commoditized, repeatable building solutions within these verticals to help customers accelerate their transformations. >> Mm hmm. >> So... >> You know, when we talk about cloud, I mean, this has been something that's been on the forefront feel like a long time. Right? But yet there are still many and maybe you can help me out with that percentage, whatever of companies who are either haven't begun yet, are just beginning, they're really in a nascent stage of this transformation. And yeah, I found it curious this week as we've talked with different people about where are you in your journey and so and so forth. A lot of people are way back just starting pass go, and aren't as mature as I would've thought. I mean, do you find that to be the case? >> Absolutely. And there's many reasons for that. I mean, I think what I've started, I mean I've been seeing it over the years, but we all know IT and business back then was very much kept separate. >> Two separate animals. >> Two separate animals. >> Yeah. >> IT made the decisions, not in a vacuum, but almost in a vacuum, right? Now, obviously companies who know it's necessary and have embraced it, bring together the function of looking at the technological solutions that they're adopting to solve a business problem. Right? But that business problem really is dictated by the customer need. >> Mm hmm. >> So I think I have seen, you know, in terms of like the life cycle of a business adopting technology, post cloud, there's a lot of enterprises that are still, they've made such big investments in their legacy infrastructure. >> Mm hmm. >> And in actually, you know, the developers and the people that are maintaining those systems, and the different connections to put it in layman's terms between their systems and their customers systems, right? So, that entire scenario makes it very difficult for them to move. >> Mm hmm. >> It's like moving a mountain. So, I would say there's like three ways of looking at it. You have those that kind of want to revitalize their technology, right? Their backend systems, they want to optimize costs, they want to, and my background in technology is specifically in data, kind of I came up as a DBA and built data models, and I've always loved data before it was a thing to love data. (John chuckles) So... >> You were so far ahead of the curve. >> I was ahead of the curve. I was a trendsetter. >> What a trendsetter? >> I'm a trendsetter. (Dominique chuckles) So I think from that perspective they're looking at, you know, these enormous of amounts of data that they've been capturing in these legacy systems that they're so heavily invested in, but they're not able to derive the insights to better serve their customers or to even innovate new revenue streams from that data. But, they're taking the first step to say, look, you know, we can actually operate more smoothly at a lower cost by moving to the cloud. >> Mm hmm. >> So there's that. Then there are those that are looking to actually innovate and create new revenue streams, monetize their data, look at opportunities to integrate feedback that they've been getting from their customers to provide new services. So they're using the cloud journey, they've probably already moved into the cloud. They're starting to look at analytics, and potentially using AIML to facilitate creating these solutions and services. And then there's those that, you know, want to pioneer, and break into new inventions and ways of solving the big world problems. >> Mm hmm. >> Right? I mean, I think that's one thing I noticed in this re:Invent that I thought was so special is there's like a really big focus on humanity, on humans, on you know, as we were talking earlier everything and I myself have like holding books and I don't like people being on their phone when we're having a conversation. (John chuckles) >> Right. But I think, you know, we are where we are. The reality is the world has evolved in such a way that community is no longer, it takes a small village, all, you know everybody knows each other. You have face to face interactions. You're not doing that with your customers either. There's digitally native businesses that have for a long time cropped up in the FinTech space in you know, you name the space, there's a startup that was born in the cloud that can reach customers immediately, and can provide a service that an enterprise that's kind of like weighed down with their legacy systems. They can't pivot fast enough. So, I think, you know, the pioneers think beyond that. How do we use quantum computing? You know, how do we use 3D simulation to anticipate solving big world problems? Whether it's, you know, people no longer, I don't know what the statistics are, but it's very sad. That elderly people, you know, the amount of human contact that they have is very little. You know, and if you could provide, I don't know, an experience, an immersive experience where their memories are triggered, you know, to help them with dementia, or Alzheimer's. >> Sure. >> I mean, those types of things, those are the things that I think that's what excites me about the launches that I see at re:Invent. And I think the innovation, you know, you have to take that journey. Unless you're born in the cloud, you do have to kind of take that journey. >> You got to get there. >> You have to get there. >> Right. Sure. >> But it's so worth it. >> So how about, let's just say, if I'm a health sciences company, or I'm a pharmaceutical or whatever, and so I've got this desire to create this new opportunity you know, with a human, I say, but yeah, but if you're also Persistent Systems and you're working with you know, somebody in FinTech, or somebody in EEG or whatever, you can't really understand my challenges or my problems. I mean, how do you wear those different hats so you can identify not only what the focus of that client is, but also their technology and how you're going to get them to marry up so they can achieve their goals? >> Well, the beauty of being, you know, in a company with teams of people that you work with, I cut across industries. Right? So we have vertical leaders that have very deep subject matter expertise in any number of those areas. You know, we're working with genomics for example. So, for example, you know, we engage with a customer that we've been helping over the past 32 years use technology to bring services to their customers. And now we are seeing an opportunity to help them innovate to keep up for their business for obvious reasons, but also to supply their customers with the new innovative solutions within that industry, right? 'Cause you need that vehicle to kind of deploy and deliver what customers need. The way we do it is from end to end, right? So, we have in the partnership with AWS, we're a partner of AWS, and as such we are able to collaborate with AWS and their customers or bring our customers to the cloud for all the way from assessment to planning to execution. And even within Persistent, we have ways to main operationalize the maintenance of these solutions. So it's really very easy managed services type framework that we work under. In terms of like migration planning, we have competencies within AWS. For looking at migrations we have AIML, we have DevOps. So we have the various competencies aligned with AWS to be able to execute at whatever stage the customer is. But also in terms of like the accelerators that we provide or the frameworks to look at total cost, that cuts across, right? And then we don't kind of like, here's what you needed and buy, never speak to us again. (John chuckles) I mean, I think the beauty of this company and what I really loved when I was first speaking to them is the depth of the relationships with their customers and the longevity of them. So they've really seen their customers grow. And you can only do that if you're there for the long run. >> You've got to be present. >> You have to be present. >> Sure. So how do you handle if people are making this transformation and they're moving into the cloud, but the people they have on staff might not be familiar with it, right? They have great expertise in what they've been doing on these legacy systems, but now you're moving, you're migrating to a new world, new culture, new environment, and you got to get 'em up to speed. And that's not easy. >> No. >> Right? So what do you do, or what does Persistent suggest or what are you doing and with regard to closing that gap into making that bridge so that they can maintain a little bit on their own. >> Yeah. >> They can execute and implement on their own. >> Yep. >> A little bit. They don't need somebody there to stand over their shoulder the whole time. >> I won't geek out on having joined AWS in professional services way back when to migrate a major company to the cloud, and having lived through painstakingly all those problems and blockers and adoption roadblocks that you speak of. >> Mm hmm. >> You know, I think the way Persistent handles it is what I would've done myself, right? If I were to start a company and say how do we help customers simplify their cloud journey, and remove the complexity? I think that's what Persistent Systems does. We, there's training programs that we are aligned to with AWS. So there's up-skilling of development teams, application developers. We collaborate from the top down with executives to look at the resources that they have available. Obviously mission critical systems that cannot sacrifice having engineers pulled away for a new project. You know, you take that into account. I think, you know, when I spoke earlier about assessments, you're not just assessing what needs to be lifted and shifted or refactored or rearchitected, you're looking at, you know, all these applications that are going to move to the cloud. Who owns them? >> Mm hmm. >> You know, do you have a CI/CD pipeline, or a data pipeline built? Well, we're going to need that, right? So, the continuous integration, continuous development of applications, that type of DevOps, obviously security also DevSecOps, we look at it from end to end as well. We have a very strong security practice. So, all those advisory pieces we have, but we also have the capability to execute on it. Where we're not just coming in and saying well this is what you should do. We're kind of in there saying, this is what you should do, here's how we can get you started. And then, you know, it's a collaborative effort with our customers to see how much they still want us to stay versus how much they want to take over. >> Right. It's nice to have a friend. >> Yeah. (John laughs) Who doesn't need a friend. (Dominique laughs) And Persistent Systems is your friend. Dominique, thanks for the time. >> Oh, my pleasure. >> I appreciate it. >> Thanks again for having me. >> Thanks for being here on theCUBE. You bet. >> Absolutely. >> You are watching theCUBE as you well know the leader in high tech coverage. (soft music)

>> Announcer: From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE Conversation. >> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE coming to you from our Palo Alto studios for a CUBE Conversation. We're talking about the Citrix Workspace Summit. It happened earlier today. And we've got one of the experts in the field, CUBE alumni and always a really fun guest to have on. Let's give a welcome to Tamara McCleary. She's coming to us from Colorado. She's the CEO of Thulium but you know her from social media and seeing her at all the conferences and speaking. And Tamara, it's great to see you again >> Jeff, it's so good to be here. Hey, next best thing to being in person, right? >> Absolutely. I mean, there is some good stuff. Neither of us had to get on an airplane today and we were able just to connect via the magic of the internet, which I think people forget how magic it truly is. So I looked up, we last spoke, it was mid-April. We were about a month into this thing after the kind of shutdown. And really the topic there was about this light switch moment on the work from home front. Now we're seven months into this, eight months into this, and clearly it's not going away anytime soon. And even when it does, it's not going to go back exactly to the way it was. So first off, how are you doing? 'Cause I know you spend a lot of time at conferences and traveling all over the world, so your life's been changed quite a bit. And then two, just your kind of perspective as we've moved from the light switch moment to the, that this is the new normal and will be the new normal going forward. Maybe not exactly how it is today, but we're not going back to the way that it was before. >> You couldn't be more spot on, Jeff. In fact, when you said April, to me, it almost feels like not seven months. It feels much longer ago. And since the last time I got on an airplane was the end of February, and that was a huge disruption to me in my life. I had always been in three, four cities a week, every week, and haven't traveled on an airplane since February. So the world is different, and it has shifted, and there's no going back. We can't step in the river twice and hit that same spot. I totally messed up that quote, but that's me. You're used to that already. >> Jeff: Exactly. >> But some things don't change. But I think when we look at work, and what we were talking about back in April is that now we're looking at the potential for kind of a hybrid approach, whether we're talking about work or even kids, some kids going back to school, there's a hybrid approach. And with that comes its own set of complexities that we have to consider. So not only has the culture shifted into a place where you have your workforce who has gotten used to working remotely, and there's a lot of things with working remotely that we didn't have when office was the centrical focus for the workplace. So there's a lot of flexibility when you work from home. And I think one of the interesting things with the Citrix Workspace Summit was when CEO David Henshall talked about how it's the people, right? So it's our workforce, our employees who are our most valuable, but also our most costly assets. So we have to make sure that the employee experience is one that is pleasing and helps us to have not only talent acquisition, but also talent retention in a really dynamic, competitive atmosphere. And I'm sure I just posed this question so we could go a million different places with this. Where do you want to go with it, Jeff? >> Well, I was going to say, and of course we can go forever, and we don't have forever, so at some point we'll have to stop talking at the end of this interview. But I just love having you on. And what I want to drill in is as we've talked about the new way to work for a very, very long time. This is not a new topic. And we've had remote work tools and we've had VPNs and we've had mobile phones now since 2007, but we didn't have this forcing function, and I think that's what's really different here is that now it wasn't a choice anymore. There was no more planning and talking about it and maybe or maybe not. Work from home was kind of a first-class citizen in terms of priority. COVID changed all that dramatically overnight. And it's driven home this other kind of concept which we talk a lot about generically in terms of the customer experience as they interact with our applications, which is the way that now they actually interact with the company. And we've talked a little bit about new way to work, but now it's really driven to the forefront, because as you said, there's a lot of benefits from working from home. You could eat dinner with your family, maybe can pick up a few more of the kids' activities, whether it's a sports game in the middle of the afternoon or something in the evening, but there's also a lot of stress. There's a lot of kind of this always on and this constant notifications, whether it's coming from email or text or Slack or Teams or Asana or whatever. So refocusing on the employee experience and elevating that up into a much more important thing, as you said, for both wellness and employee satisfaction, but also retention and getting new employees. It's really changed the priority of that whole set of, kind of point of view around the employee experience that wasn't there kind of pre-COVID. >> Absolutely. And I think you just tapped onto something that I think affects all of us who are juggling these multifaceted lives, and that is the constant interruption and distraction, and that costs money. And I think about that as the CEO of our organization is that how many of these distractions could be avoided to create efficiency and productivity. It also creates happiness for the individual. I don't think anybody likes to be constantly distracted, but when you have a bunch of different applications and you don't have them in one accessible place and you're constantly having to flip between these applications, it can cause a lot of friction and frustration. And I think genuinely that was my very first introduction to Citrix was the ability to really streamline and have everything in one place on a beautiful dashboard that was personalized to the individual. Not everybody in the organization needs to have all the applications, right? Some of your employees only need a few, and it just depends on who they are and what they're doing within the organization. And so I think decreasing that friction, making it easier for people, and certainly ensuring not only a frictionless experience at home but also ensuring security is huge. I mean, how many times have we talked about cybersecurity is not a bolt on afterwards. It has to be all the way up through the stack. And certainly we did have an increased threat landscape with work from home situations because there were all these security breaches and issues and vulnerabilities. So I know we're not talking security today, but I'm wild about it. But I think that all of these things, what I like about what Citrix is doing, and I enjoy the Summit, is the fact that they're blending everything into a single solution so that it just gets done. Work gets done from wherever you are, whether you're at home, you're in office, or in your car, work gets done. >> And not only work but I thought the theme that's interesting that came out in David's keynote is our best work. It's good work and high-value work. And there's really kind of two aspects of that. One, as you just said, is please help me with the distractions and use machine learning and artificial intelligence and this unified platform to decide whether I should or should not be distracted. Also help me prioritize what I should be working on kind of right now, which, again, a great opportunity for AI and ML to elevate that which is most important to the top of my inbox. But even more in one of the keynotes was integrating the concept of wellness, and not just wellness in the HR manual at the back after vision and dental and getting your health checks, but wellness even where the application suggests that you take a two-hour window in this particular period of time to be thoughtful and do some deep thinking. And someone mentioned the people we talk about in automation and getting rid of drudgery and errors and all the bad stuff that comes from doing crappy work, not only is it not fun, but super error prone. This is a really different to use technology to help the employee, as you said, not only just get work done, but get good work done, get high-value work done, prioritize good stuff, and not just deal with the incessant henpecking that is the notification world that it's really easy to fall into if you don't turn some of that stuff off or at least tone them down a little bit. >> That's so true. I don't know if you saw this, but there a study by Stanford of, I think it was 16,000 workers, and over a nine-month period, they did this study, and it was a study looking at work from home and whether productivity was increased. And every, 'cause at first you remember what it was, Jeff. I mean, in the old regime, we would thought, oh dear, we don't want a remote workforce because everybody's going to be hanging out in their pajamas and screwing around and not doing work. And that's not true. What ends up happening is that this study showed that productivity increased by 13%. And, I mean, that's huge, right? So there was a huge bump in performance. And in this particular study, the variables that they cited was perhaps that they had a quieter workspace. I mean, you're not getting barraged by all the endless meetings, unless you have endless Zoom meetings, but that's a whole nother conversation. But you're having more time to focus and flexibility on when you work, which also increases focus. But I thought what you mentioned, the wellness piece was important, because then if you look at other studies, there was a Forbes article that cited that the average worker starts at 8:32 a.m. or something like that and works until 5:38 p.m. And I think the days of the week that were the most productive were Tuesday, Wednesdays, and Thursdays. But this was interesting, I thought. Telephone calls were up by 230%, so the calls that employees were making, and CRM activity was up by 176% and email up by 57% and chats up by 9%. So what we're seeing is that people are trying to find creative ways to remain connected and communicate, but in different ways. And I think that's where the wellness piece comes in and kind of what you were saying with that. I think it's a microapp that Citrix has on their Workspace, their workspace dashboard that pops up a reminder and says, hey, you think you should take a break or get up from your desk. But I think that what's nice about that is it's easy to get sucked into your computer all day. I'm guilty. I will definitely say I can start off pretty darn early in the morning or usually around by five and go till late at night. But, and it's all in front of the computer screen. So maybe I need that Citrix workspace solution to tap me on the shoulder and tell me to go take a meditation break. >> At least one of those watches that'll tell you to get up and twist around. Well, let's shift gears a little bit. They had Satya Nadella on, and Satya is a phenomenal executive, been super successful turning that big, very large boat, Microsoft, into really a cloud company and a SaaS company, and nothing but great success. Always happy to hear him. He had some interesting comments I want to run by you. One of them he said is we were dogmatic about work before, but don't replace what we were with just a new dogma. And what he really highlighted, A, obviously without the technology platform and cloud and all these tools that we have in place, this couldn't have happened. But more importantly, he said it really highlights the need for flexibility and resiliency, and to really, again, kind of elevate those as the first class citizens as to what you should be optimizing for. And really the highlight within this sudden shift with COVID that if you've got those capabilities, you're going to be successful, and if you don't, you're in real trouble >> I'm glad you brought Satya up, because he also said something really cool that I think is true, and that is we are running right now, currently we are running a global scale experiment. Do you remember him saying that? >> Yeah. >> And it's so true. I think right now the social scientists are going wild because finally they've got their captive collection of their study, their guinea pigs. But the other thing he was saying, too, is that we're going to be harnessing all these technologies to be able to re-skill and up-skill. And how long have we been talking about this, Jeff, with the future of work, that it will be a re-skilling and up-skilling of the workforce. He even mentioned holographic technology. He didn't go into it, but just the mention of it got me thinking about how we are currently using some of those nascent technologies to be able to up-skill and re-skill our workforces and also protect a workforce that doesn't necessarily need to be on scene on the edge of it all. And then he gave an example of an engineer being able to communicate with a first-line worker without having to be actually in the physical presence. And so I think this crucible that we're in called a global pandemic, forcing our hand, really, to do all the things that we've been talking about at all these conferences that we've been to, for me, maybe the past two decades, is that it's show, don't tell. So we're not talking about it anymore. We actually have to do it. And another thing that Satya said was that nine to five is definitely not true anymore with work. It's flexibility. And it's really... He also mentioned this EEG study into meeting fatigue. >> Jeff: Yes. >> I thought it was pretty wild. An EEG study into meeting fatigue. And I bet even without reading that study, all of us who are on video conferencing systems can probably tell what the outcome of that was. But concentration wanes very quickly. In fact, I think in that study it was after 20 minutes. But, so kudos to Citrix for putting on their summits, because did you notice for once we had the enjoyment of all these just really contents, deliciously packed segments that were short. >> Jeff: Right. >> Whereas at live events, they went on way too long. I mean, even customer stories went on way too long. And I really love the staccato nature of these customer stories and partnerships and what was working, and I just thought that they did a really nice job, and it was interesting because it met perfectly with staying underneath that 20-minute window before attention wanes. >> Right, right. And they even broke it up into three conferences, right? It was Citrix Synergy before. >> Right. >> Now it's workspaces, it's cloud, and then the third one will be security. But I want to double down on another concept. We talked about it last time with you and with Amy about measuring work and about kind of old work paradigms in terms of measuring performance that were really based more on activity than output. And this concept that work is an output, not a place. And it kind of makes you think of talking about cloud and a cloud-centric way of thinking about things. It's not necessarily the delivery method. It's about adopting quick change and rapid pace and having everything available that you need anywhere you are at the same time. So it seems strange to me that it took this to drive people to figure out that they should be measuring output and not activity. And were some early applications that came out when this all went down that are going to report back as to how often are you looking at your Zoom calls and how often are you sitting in front of your desk and all this silly stuff that just, again, misses the point. And I think this whole employee experience is, as you said, make 'em happy, make 'em feel fulfilled. They want to do meaningful work. They want to do high-value work. They just don't want to be an integration machine between the email system and the accounts receivable system and the accounts payable system. There's so much of an opportunity to get more value from the people, which, oh, by the way, makes for happier people. So do you think finally we're at a point where we can start getting away from just measuring activity unless that's your job to put a widget on a screw and really focus on output and high-value output and innovative output and deep thinking output versus just checking another box and passing the paper down the line? >> You know, Jeff, that reminds me of what Erica Volini, I think she's global human capital practice at Deloitte. I really loved her presentation. I also like the fact that I felt like she was speaking from her home, and she mentioned she's a new mom, and so there was this warmth and connection there which also I think is something really that we don't think about being, but it is a gift since we've all had to work from home is being able to see kind of executive individuals in a regular environment, and it humanizes it all, right? She said something really interesting in her talk. She was talking about rearchitecting the future of work, and she was talking about essentially, the premise was that human beings need, crave, have to have work that's meaningful and real. And part of this whole experience piece, part of this removing the friction from the experience of the employee and providing opportunities, stimulating growth opportunities for employees to give them that sense of meaning. But also she talked about the relationships. I mean, work is a huge part of the relationships in our life. And so this meaningful relationships and connections and in her architecting the work of the future, it's harnessing technology in service to humans to do a better job. And I think the word she used was augmentation, right? So the augmentation piece would be as we think about reinventing or re-imagining or re-architecting, we look at what's going to happen when we have the human working with the machine, but the machine in service to augmenting that human being to do, potential is what she was talking about, to really reach their potential. And so it's not about being replaced by technology. It's not being replaced by artificial intelligence, with machine learning algorithms. It's actually working in tandem so that technology potentiates the human that is using the technology. And I think that was a really good way of putting it. >> Right, right. I mean, we talk, it's one of our taglines, right? To separate the signal from the noise. And the problem is with so many systems now, and I forget, you may know off the top of your head, the average number of applications that people have to interact with every day to get their job done. >> Too many. >> Too many. >> Too many. >> It's a lot. So, so there is a lot of noise, but there's also some signal. And so if you're not paying attention, you can miss the signal that might be super, super important because you're overwhelmed by the noise. And so I think it is a real interesting challenge. It's a technology challenge to apply the machine learning and artificial intelligence, to sort through the total flow, to be able to prioritize and separate the signal from the noise to make sure we're working on the stuff that we should be working on. And I think it's a growing challenge as we just seem to always be adding new applications and adding new notifications and adding new systems that we have to interact with versus taking them away. So Citrix has this approach where we're just going to bring it all in together under one place. And so whether it's your Salesforce notification or your Slack notification or Zoom meeting, whatever, to have it orchestrated as a single place so I don't have 18 tabs, 14 browsers, and two laptops running just to get my day job done. >> You're going to make me self-conscious of all the tabs I have right now. Thanks a lot, Jeff. But, it's kind of, I like hearing stories, right? I think stories communicate to me kind of these practical applications. And I think Citrix did a brilliant job in the Workspace Summit of highlighting some of these customer stories that were really inspiring during the pandemic. One of 'em was City National Bank and Ariel Carrion? This is a test of my memory. He's the CTO, right, of City National Bank. And he's talking about that they had already had a partial migration to the cloud prior to the pandemic. So obviously there was an advantage for those organizations that already had their toe in the water. So, but when the pandemic hit, then it really catalyzed that movement all the way into the cloud and essentially creating a digital bank. And what was really interesting to me is that they funded 9600 loans and taking on new clients during that time of transformation to a digital bank. And one of the coolest things that he said to me was that in a regular program, it would've taken, mind you, get this. It would've taken 14 years, 14 years to accomplish what they did in three months. >> That's a long time. >> I was blown away, right? Just to me, that speaks a lot, because what we're talking about here is their clients are small business, and who do you think was impacted most during the pandemic? Small business. So the ability to get loans was critically important to the survival of a lot of companies. And the same story they had with eBay and David Lessor was talking, he's a senior manager in the office of the CIO, I think I remember. And he was talking about how obviously eBay is a digital platform, right? But if you think about the pandemic when we were all had these shelter in place orders, lots of people were able to still make money and earn a living because they were able to do business on eBay. And both eBay and City National Bank are obviously customers of Citrix. But I just found this to be really inspiring, because for eBay pre-pandemic, it was like, I don't know. I think they said they had 11,000 connected users prior to the pandemic, and a lot of those were in physical call centers. >> Jeff: Right. >> And then post-pandemic, I think he was reaching, saying end of Q4 was going to be something like 14,000 connected users. That's huge from 11 to 14. >> Yeah. >> And again, to your point, it's kind of forcing our hand into really not only pivoting, but increasing our speed in this ever-changing dynamic environment. >> Right. >> You know, one of the other things that came up, before I let you go, that it's always nice to have frameworks. Sometimes it just helps us organize our thoughts and it's kind of a mental cheat sheet. And they talked about the four Cs, connectivity, content, collaboration, and culture. And I would have to say they're in inverse order of how I would potentially have prioritized them. But I just wanted to zero in on the culture piece, 'cause I don't think people focus enough on culture. And one of the things I think we talked about in April, and I've certainly talked about a number of times going through this thing in leadership in these crazy times is that the frequency and the type and the topics in communication within your internal world have gone up dramatically. I think we had the, we had a CMO on the other day, and she said internal comms, this is a big company, prior to COVID was important, but not that important within the list of the CMO's activity. But then once this thing hit, right, suddenly internal communications, again, in terms of frequency and the types of topics you're talking about and the forums that you talk about and the actual vehicles in which you talk about, whether it's a all hands Zoom call or it's more frequent one-on-ones with your manager, really, really increase the importance of culture, and then I think probably is going to show over time the people that have it right, getting some separation distance from the people that got it wrong. I wonder if you could just talk about, 'cause you're a big culture person and you know how important the people part of the whole thing is. >> Yeah, culture drives everything. You're right. And that was Citrix's CIO who gave those four Cs, I think, Meerah Rajavel. >> Yeah, yeah. >> She gave those four Cs. And you couldn't be, you couldn't have tapped into something that I think is the soft underbelly of the organization, which is what is the culture. And anyone who's worked in an organization with a sick culture knows that it's just, it's cancerous, right? It grows and it causes decay. And I don't care how much innovation you have. If the culture is sick, you just, you're going to lose your best people. It's hard to work in a sick culture. And so I think what we had to do is when we all started working remotely, that was a culture shift, because we were siloed off of it. We weren't actually hanging out in physical space. Some of the things that we enjoyed about meeting with other human beings physically changed. And so it really behooved organizations to take a look at how they were going to foster culture digitally, how they were going to create that sense of bonding between not only those within your departmental area, but cross over into other areas. And I think that creating that culture that says I don't have to be in the exact same physical space, but we can still connect. I mean, you and I are doing this. We're not in the same physical space. >> Jeff: Right. >> But I'm still going to feel like we met today. >> Jeff: Right. >> You can create that for your employees. And it also means that we learned that we don't have to be in that same physical space, right? And I thought that was a really interesting position when Hayden Brown, the CEO of Upwork, was talking at the summit and saying that even when we look at creating culture with employees who aren't necessarily, maybe it's a workforce from all over the world that you're using, a remote workforce. And when you're using things like employees, if you've got work to do and you can find a really good talent and you can grab them for what it is that you need, you're actually increasing your ability to be able to deliver on things versus having to worry about whether you have that person in house, but you still can create that culture where everyone is inclusive, where someone can be in Australia and someone's in San Francisco and someone's in the UK, and you still have to create a cohesive, inclusive culture. And it matters not anymore whether or not you are a full-time employee or if you're a contract worker. I think in today's space, and certainly in those future of work conversations, it's more about, to the very first thing you said at the beginning, it's more about output. How's that for tying it back up again? >> Jeff: Yeah, very good. >> And that was totally unplanned. But it is about output, and that's going to be the future of work culture. It's not going to be the title that you have, whether or not you're a full-time employee or a part-time employee or a contract worker. It's going to be who are you meeting with? Who are you having these digital interfaces with and Slacking with or using any sort of platform application that you want to use. It's remaining in touch and in communication, and no longer is it about a physical space. It's a digital space. >> Right, right. All right, well, I'm going to give you the last word. You are a super positive person, and there's reasons, and for people that haven't watched your TED Talk, they should. I think it's super impactful and it really changed the way I look at you. So of all the negatives, wrap us up with some positives that you see as we come out of COVID that going through this experience will make in our lives, both our work lives as well as our personal lives. >> Well, since you're going to allow me to go deep here, I would say one of the things that COVID has brought us is pause. It caused us to go in. And with any dark night of the soul, we have to wrestle with the things that are real for us, and the things that fall away are those that were false, false perceptions, false ideas, illusions of even thinking who we are, what we're doing. And we had to come home to ourselves. And I think one of the things that COVID gave us through uncertainty was finding a center in that uncertainty. And maybe we got to know our beloveds a bit more. Maybe we got to know our kids a bit more, even if they drive us crazy sometimes. But in the end, I think maybe we all got to know ourselves a little bit more. And for that, I think we can harness those seeds of wisdom and make better choices in the future to co-create together a future that we are all pleased to wake up in, one that is fair, one that is equal, one that is inclusive, and one that we can be proud to have contributed to. And that's what I hope we've taken from this extremely hard time. >> Well, Tamara, thanks for sharing your wisdom with us. Really appreciate it. And great to see ya. >> Good to see you, too, thank you. >> All right, she's Tamara, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. (bright music)

>> Announcer: Live from the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California. It's theCUBE covering DevNet Create 2018, brought to you by Cisco. (techy music playing) >> Hello, everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's exclusive coverage here in Silicon Valley. We're in Mountain View, California, for Cisco's DevNet Create. I'm here with Lauren Cooney, our analyst here with Wikibon, of course. Our next guest is Monica Houston, director of Hackster Live, Hackster IO, Hackster.io, open source hardware, really kind of creating a great community model. Really started from a great idea. Great to have you, thanks for coming, joining us. >> Thanks for having me. >> So, we're here at Cisco Live, so no better place to talk about hardware and software coming together, but first talk about how Hackster started, how it grew, where it is now today. >> Okay, so Hackster got started about four years ago here in San Francisco. The founders, Adam and Ben, they said they wanted to make a community for people that were interested in building open source hardware. Adam had actually come from starting his own hardware startup and realized that there were very few resources for people like him that wanted to build electronics, and so started a community. I got involved, started... We actually bought a DeLorean, drove it around the country and did hardware hack-a-thons in 12 different cities in the US. >> And so where's it today in terms of numbers, community members, and you're based in Seattle, is that right? >> I'm in Seattle. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, what's the community look like, what's the numbers look like? >> There are half a million people on our site and 15,000 open source projects. >> John: Wow, awesome. >> Yeah. >> That is totally awesome, what projects do you see being the most popular on your site? >> Lots of home automation, home automation's a really popular topic. >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> We also get a lot of some pretty cool, like, music synthesizers, amplifiers. All kinds of stuff, yeah. >> That's great, now, say I'm like a... I, you know, have coded before but I'm not necessarily truly a developer. Like I'm a moonlighter, per se. >> Monica: Sure. (laughing) >> How could I get involved in this? >> Oh, man, there's tons of resources. So, actually on our site you can sort by difficulty. >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> So, if you want to find some beginner projects you can sort by difficulty and find only beginner projects. Also we have tutorials, so tutorials, getting started projects. >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> Like, so you buy an Arduino or you buy a particle board and you want to learn how to use it you can search for a getting started project on the site. >> Lauren: That's great. >> Yeah. >> How are you, like... So, you're at DevNet Create-- >> Monica: Yeah. >> With Cisco and what are you doing here? Like, what are you talking about, what are you really interested in? >> So, I have a project called Breadboard to PCB. I'm actually... So, I was a front-end web developer and then I got into all this, so I'm fairly new to it as well. I've been doing it for about six years. I'm not an electrical engineer. (laughing) I have to tell myself, but I'm doing a project called Breadboard to PCB. I made a PCB last year, sort of taught myself how to do that and realized it's actually not that hard and I want to spread that around to people and make them realize that they can build their own PCBs, too. >> That's terrific, that's awesome. Are you and Cisco, DevNet looking to share content or anything like that that might be cool? >> Yes, definitely. (laughing) >> Lauren: Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right, and is there any more you can tell us about that or is that still in the works? >> Still in the works, yeah, we offer... So, we have all these different partners, like Microsoft, Intel, hopefully Cisco as well-- >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> That do, they have, their hub is hosted on our site and people share their projects there with full instructions of a template. We actually go through and make sure everyone shares their code and their schematics. So, they're very well put together projects. >> Lauren: Great. >> Talk about some of the most exciting things you worked on, because one of the things I love about the open source culture is the creativity kind of comes out of nowhere. (laughing) We were just talking, before you came out, about my son, how he's been hacking his own thing. With this culture now you have so much online information. You go to YouTube, there's always a how-to. These communities have great resources. You guys got a robust community. So, there's always that natural, organic, "Whoa, look what this person did." >> Monica: Yeah. >> Can you share some stories around some killer things that happened. Not "killer," good things or just some things that are just creatively cool that you never would've thought would happen. >> Oh, man, so Allen Pan is a maker, I think he's based in LA. He has a YouTube channel, Allen Pan, and he did this really cool... I guess The Last Airbender is a popular movie and he did this flame activated, or punch activated flamethrower on his wrist. So, you try this at home. (laughing) Might be a little dangerous. >> What's his YouTube channel? >> I believe it's Allen Pan, is his name. >> So, there's some creative stuff, so people just tinkering around but there's also some serious hardware engineers. >> Monica: Mm-hmm. >> Any businesses starting out of this? Have you seen any, like, good ventures emerge? >> There's been a few things that I forgot about. There was a really cool watch that was Kickstarted that if you're a cyclist you can wear it and it tells you, like, which way to turn based on your GPS. >> John: Mm-hmm. >> There was some really nice Bluetooth, very elegant, like, Bluetooth controlled lights, that with different colors those are nice, yeah. >> So, what are some of the things you guys are doing in the community that you think's notable that you could share, people might be interested and like, how do you guys organize? There's some things that you guys do differently. What are some of the community activities that, you know, are standard. You know, the normal thing, you have meetups and whatnot, but like, how do you guys run your community, what are some of your guiding principles. Can you share how things work? >> So, we are always open, so you can go to our site and there's no, you know, there's no pay wall or barrier to view all of our content because our content comes from our community, and like, they're the ones that are... We're encouraging them to really document their work. Also, yeah, so we do hardware hack-a-thons where we try to make sure-- >> John: Yeah. >> Everyone's very... We're very beginner friendly, I guess. That's one of our goals is to make sure that people are coming from all different... You know, it's the artists that are making cool projects and-- >> So, when new people come in-- >> Mm-hmm. >> They get welcome letter, kind of community email haze or chat, all that stuff going on, all that's in place. >> We have a news feed, we have discussion, comments on the project that we moderate a bit, so yeah. >> So, Hackster.io. >> Hackster.io, yeah. >> All right, what's the coolest thing you guys are doing right now that you think we should know about? >> So, sort of related, actually this weekend I was at a workshop to learn how to make my own fire projects. (laughing) I like fire, (laughing) yeah. >> John: A pyromaniac community. I want the flamethrower fist thing. >> Yeah, I know. (laughing) >> Lauren: Over here is, yeah. >> I'm instantly like maybe on YouTube or something, I want that. That's a great party trick. >> I think it's great. >> Until something lights up. >> Right. (laughing) >> All right, so what are you doing here at Cisco? What's the focus here, obviously great culture they're building here. Very developer, not a lot of Cisco Kool-Aid being injected here, but much more of an outreach for Cisco, what's your focus here? >> This is all new for me, actually. So, I did not realize that this has got such a huge developer community and was really involved and like, this is a great conference. >> Lauren: That's true. >> People are so nice. >> Yeah, and the internet of things is a big hardware-- >> Yeah. >> Focused market. >> Yes, yeah. >> So, they've got all the software there. >> It's only getting bigger, yeah. >> Cool. >> Mm-hmm. >> Cool, all right, so what's new in Seattle? Give us an update on what you're doing. >> All right, it's still raining there. (laughing) >> That is actually very good to know. (laughing) >> You have Microsoft up there. >> Monica: Yeah. >> You have Amazon. >> Monica: Mm-hmm. >> University of Washington, so you have kind of a nice, kind of geek culture developing up there. So, yeah, good open source hardware vibe up there? >> Yeah. >> What's the community like in Seattle? >> Yeah, I run meetups, there's lots of people that come out to different hardware meetups and there are, like, a lot of new, cool hardware startups. Like for instance, Glowforge is a laser cutter that was Kickstarted recently. >> Lauren: Yep. >> There's some other really neat... DiGo is a home automation light switch. >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> Yeah, there's some pretty cool startups. >> So, if someone wants to join your community, what would you say to them if they're watching this video right now, hey. What are they, what's it like to join, what are they going to be... What's the vibe like, what are some of the things that are involved? What's the value for someone watching, that might want to join this, totally into tinkering with hardware? >> One thing is a great format to share your projects, and also to document your projects. Documentation is really important and I like to say that a project doesn't exist unless it's documented. (laughing) >> John: Yeah. >> So, documenting it and then we'll boost your project, we'll share it on our social media and it'll get lots of views. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's an open, it's a nerd culture. I mean, by the way, robotics is the hottest thing going on. You can't get involved, a lot of the younger generation are absolutely enamored with robotics, just at all levels. From, you know, you've got drones, which is super cool, right. Then you've got all the kind of stuff that's, it's all about hardware, hardware. >> Well, this is great, I'm on the site and I'm looking right now at the mind control drone. >> Monica: Oh, yeah. (laughing) >> That is, you know, my question is does that really work? Can I, you know, can I actually do something. You know, take this and learn from the site and actually build that? >> There are, and there are some developer, I guess it's EEG or EKG, EMG is another one, that you can really, you know, you can think left or think right and it will go left or right, it figures it out, yeah. >> That is so cool. >> Are people meeting up on the site and doing work together. Is it like a collaborative kind of hub going on there? >> There are some people that are doing that. Yeah, there was a few people on our site that were doing work on the, what was it... Elon Musk's thing, the... Hyperloop. >> John: Yeah. >> There's, like, the Hyperloop contest, and so a few people on our site were doing some work for that. >> Lauren: That's great. >> So, yeah, people are meeting there, yeah, for sure. >> Monica, great to have you here in theCUBE. Thanks for sharing about Hackster.io. We're going to check it out and thanks for the tip on the YouTube channel. We'll get the fire flamethrower. >> Yeah, make your own flamethrowers. >> John's going to be busy this weekend. (laughing) >> I'm a pyromaniac, I keep playing with matches all the time. So, thanks for coming on, I really appreciate it. >> Yeah, thank you. >> Hackster.io, we are theCUBE here live in Mountain View, California. Cisco DevNet Create, the Computer History Museum. We'll be right back with more after this short break. (techy music playing)