(upbeat music) >> Tech people love tech. Consumers love to benefit of tech. No consumer opens up their iphone and says, "Oh my gosh, I love the technology behind my iphone". >> What's it been like being on the Shark Tank? >> You know filming is fun. And hanging out is fun, and it's fun to be a celebratory at first. Your head gets really big and you can get tables at restaurants. >> Who says tech isn't got a little pizazz? (laughing) >> Announcer: More skin in the game. In charge of his destiny. >> I mean you guys are exciting? >> Announcer: Robert Herjavec, is Cube Alumni. (upbeat music) Live from Silicon Valley, it's the Cube, covering Google Cloud Next' 17. >> Welcome back to the Cube, we're doing two days of live coverage here of the Google Cloud Next' 2017 here in the center of Silicon Valley from our 4500 sq foot Palo Alto studio. Happy to bring back to the program a multi time guest, but first time in his new role Praveen Akkiraju now the CEO of Viptela. Thank you for joining us. >> Thanks Stu real pleasure to be here. >> Praveen we were joking, it's like you first came on the Cube back in 2012, you've been on the program at many of our shows, but now you're at our place here, we've got the nice studio, so happy. >> Yes it's really impressive. It's a, you guys have come a long way and it's been an awesome show when I was at VC and I'm really excited to be back here with you. >> Awesome, thank you so much. Why don't you give our audience why Vipetla? What was exiting o you about the opportunity? We've has the opportunity of interviewing some of your folks over the last couple of years at shows like the Emerald and alike? >> Absolutely, I think it's interesting, when you think about sort of what's happening in the IT industry as a whole. There's a revolution going on in the cloud. You know the show that you guys are covering as well as what's been happening over the past couple of years. Applications are basically migrating out of the data center, whether it's into the public cloud into into PaaS platforms, SaaS platforms and such like, similarly at the edge right, users have been migrating away from their desktops right, mobility has unleashed the user to be wherever they need to be and be able to still be productive. In addition to that, you have a whole bunch of things happening in the edge in terms of devices and things coming onboard. Now if you think about these two worlds and the revolution that's happening there, the actual connectivity between those two has been frozen in time right. Majority of the enterprises today are still connected using MPLE, VPN technology which is invented 20 years ago to solve the problem of ATM like emulation or IP. So I think what was really interesting to me about Viptela is it's truly about redefining the network connectivity between users and applications for the could era. And that's really what our mission is and that's what we're really excited about. >> Yeah Praveen it reminds me a lot of you know, what we saw in the data centers when it came to networking. There was that big shift for a number of years in saying, "Well it was the client to server "and then that machine to machine". Everything that happened with virtualization. We went from north south traffic to east west traffic. We talked about forever. Now as cloud pulls in those connectivity. Reinventing what's happening in WAN. >> And absolutely and think about it, if you're a user, you might be accessing your applications in the data center, But you might need to access a something on a SaaS platform well if you're sitting at a branch office do you want to go back to the data center and then head out to the Cloud? Or do you want to be able to take the best path out? Most branches today, have internet connections that our faster than anything MPLS can provide. In fact, there's a data point, one of our customers gave us. The per megabit cost for MPLS VPN is about $200. The per megabit cost for internet is about $2. And you think about the speed as symmetry and obviously the SLA's are different right. So you want to be able to make sure that you can leverage the best connectivity, but also make sure the applications are mapped to the appropriate SLA's transport. So, what we do is essentially, we think about ourselves as the next generation overlay. So we can, the Viptela fabric essentially encompasses MPLS, VPN, internet, LTE connectivity, and we're able to understand what happens in the underlay. But enterprises can just focus on how they want their users to connect to their applications without having to understand what's happening underneath. So that's truly the power of the software refined world if you will right. >> Yeah so, we've been talking for a few years. That whole SDN wave that came out, Google talks about themselves as the largest SDN company out there. But most of the discussion seems to have moved beyond SDN. You're area of SD WAN is definitely one of the hot conversations. Where are customers in kind of understanding this transition and where do things fit? >> Yeah it's a great point, I mean the first wave of software defined networking was essentially was about solving the data center connectivity problem. So how you connect machines more dynamically. How you connect do you connect capacity more dynamically. So application can migrate, you know this notion of sort of machine to machine communication in a dynamic fashion. And being able to potentially even stripe it out to the could. But the first wave did not address hard users connect to their applications. So we think of ourselves from an SDN perspective, kind of leading that second wave of software defined networking, which truly is about user experience an application experience. Connecting users wherever they are to applications wherever they are right. In a scalable secure and dynamic fashion. >> Very different discussion from what I think of. The guys from Nicira that turned into the NXS, that seemed very tied into how VMware talks about hybrid environment. When you talk about, when VMware on AWS goes in. I need that NXS in there. You know you worked at Cisco for a number of years, what they're doing with ACI now is talking more about that as opposed to the client the application layer. >> Exactly right. And I think that at the end of the day. We optimized how applications can migrate and move. And how they can get the best capacity. But the whole purpose is to really deliver those applications to the users. And the WAN has been kind of this, it's frozen in time for 20 years, primarily because it's hard right. It's really hard to be able to figure out what the underlay actually looks like. I mean some of these, some of our customers are global. I mean we have sights in Vietnam. In India, in the US obviously, But it's a global or it's a global footprint and being able to overlay something on top that still give you the predictable performance and be is secure, is something that's been a hard problem to solve. And that's what's really exiting about what we're doing at Viptela. >> It's really interesting stuff. Talk about how you guys partner with, interact with the public cloud environments? >> Yeah you know so we, we're obviously most of our controller are hosted in AWS as well as Verzion which is another, which is a key partner. These are the two big two big sort of partners for us in our in terms of our controllers. But we think about, we partner with AWS, we partner with Microsoft from a Open from an Office 365 perspective. And there a lot of our customer who want to have a much more predictable, high, low leniency access to Office 365. A lot of our customer have workloads in AWS. So we're able to actually spin up a version of our device to front end VPC's and AWS so you can then terminate. Essentially, we treat the cloud as a node in the fabric right. So it helps all the policies, it helps all the securities. Security aspects of it day one. So it's really super simple to set up. We don't treat the cloud separatetly, we just say,"well here's another branch "or a head end". Let's just, can I connect it in. And let the customer define the policies that they see fit. >> That's great so AWS and Office 365 leaders in their categories, got the Google Show going on this week. What do you hear from your customers when it comes to G Suite and Google Cloud? >> Yeah I mean there's a lot of customers who use the G Suite. Mainly Googe Docs particularity. In the context of sort of some of the small medium business that we work with. So again, our job is to really bring users to the applications with the lowest leniency of having the best experience possible. So lot of the could providers essentially don't necessarily worry about how customers get there. They just assume the customer shows up the the door but is a SasS platform or infrastructure is a service platform. So our partnerships with a lot of these providers are about insuring that you know we can collectively guarantee that their users get the best path forward. And that creates more stickiness for them. In terms of their service. >> Okay Praveen, let's talk about Viptela for a second, What's on your plate this year? Those industry watchers? What should we be expecting to see from you coming forward? >> Yeah what's interesting about Viptela is I mean we talk about obviously software define WAN as a category. And clearly as I mentioned, there's a huge leitant requirement to evolve the WAN connectiveness. And I would think that what Viptela does is sort of the next generation overlay. And we talked about sort of the different forms of connectivity which we give the control back to the enterprise. To say, "All you need to worry about Mr. Customer is "to say how can I define the segment or policy per user, "per application". So that's been sort of the focus of our initial use case for our fabric. And we've been tremendously successful, you know most of what we focus primarily on the global fortune 1000 type customers. So we have pretty much every verticals represented in our customer base. Large financials, industrial companies, car companies, retailers, health care and such like. But we think about this fabric as essentially solving the problem of connectivity so you now the next phase of our solution is really about how do we make cloud connectivity really simple and secure? So we're going to launch something in that space, where we make connectivity to infrastructure, service, SaaS platforms really seamless as part of our platform. So if you're a user in a branch or at the edge, you should be able to connect to your data center at the same level of experience and security as you would go to your cloud. So we want to make that super seamless. So that's I think, we call that Cloud En ramps. That's something that we're going to be announcing pretty soon. When I think about the longer term plan, evolution of this because of the platform is fundamentally grounded in routing, in understanding how scale happens, we have taken the traditional routing stake and disaggregated it. There's a data plane that's onsite, there's a control plane which is essentially your routing, and a management organization plane that sits in the cloud. So this allows us to solve many problems. So you can extrapolate forward and say well there's a whole problem internet of things. What is the internet of things problem? It is a whole bunch of devices at the edge which need to be connected to end points whether it's a data center or a you know a collection point. Dynamically, dependent on the phase of their. So those are the kind of problems we think we can solve. So Viptela is interesting because it's not just about SDN it's really about the next generation overlay between the users and the cloud and being able to address multiple use cases. >> Okay, and there are a number of companies. Plenty of startups, some of the big guys there. In the market, what really differentiates you guys? What are your customers coming to you for that the other guys can't do? >> Yeah I think it's, I would say really, so we're all routing geeks. I pretty much spent 19 years at Cisco. Built every platform that Cisco ships today. And so are most of member of the teams. We have I think one of the strongest collection of networking talent in the industry. And what we're able to do with that is as I mentioned re-imagine what the network connectivity needs to look like. In the era of cloud, in the era of internet of things. Our architecture is fundamentally modular as I mentioned right. There's a data plane, there's a control plane, management organization plane. We are cloud managed and cloud delivered. So we solve for scale very elegantly. Because we inherently use the properties of routing that has allowed the internet to scale to what it is as part of the core of our solution. That's one thing that's unique. The second aspect of this is, for us security is a day zero thing. You know, when we bring up a box, zero touch provisioning, it comes up with an Ipsec tunnel encrypted. And we do it without having to exchange keys. So it's inherently secure right. So that is a very significant issue because if you're using the internet as your pipe for your mission critical traffic how do you assure yourself that you're not going to be hacked? And your traffic is not going to be intercepted. So that's you know, some of the largest financial institutions have been on our architecture. Because they trust that. So that's a second piece. The third piece is from an application and a policy perspective we have the ability with our controllers to push policies and create segmentations for different use cases on a dynamic basis. So I'll give you an example so if you have a user in a branch, and you have basically another user comes in they have a different set of requirements. You can dynamically switch up a tunnel from your cloud controller to enable that to happen without every having to touch or configure any of the end boxes. So our cloud platform gives us tremendous amount of scale and flexibility. So that's the way I think about it. Scalability, security, an application policy and the different use cases that we're able to bring to bear. >> So final question I have of you Praveen, the networking world is changing faster than it used to. But I think back to... >> Praveen: Finally. >> for many years I would do slides on networking, and we'd talk about decade scale. So it's like you know, here's how the standard comes, here's how it roles out, here's how it adoption. The enterprise is risk adverse. Slow to change. Not doing anything. Why are things so exciting now in the networking space? What's different? What's driving that move and our customers moving faster? >> Yeah it's a great question and you know I think to put it differently I think networking enjoyed architectural consistency and stability for almost two decades. Which is not the case when you think about the data center or some of the other environment where there's constant change. Now having said that, when we think about what's driving this change it's really that these two revolutions that are going on, one in the edge where users are evolving really rapidly whether it's connectivity or sort of devices and such like and one of the data center of the cloud where applications are fundamentally changing their ephemeral. They're able to migrate between locations. So that's putting a lot of pressure back onto the network. To say, "Hey we need the network to be a lot more dynamic". We need the network to be a lot more flexible. A lot more cost effective. And that is the fundamental driver which we see as driving the customers' willingness to say, "I need to re-look at the network". And the other aspect of this is, as I said we re-imagined networking ground up. Clean sheet of paper. Learned the lessons from the past. And say, "How do you make this painless for the customer"? The reason why the network particularly the WAN has been stagnant is because it is painful right. It involved multiple connectivities, multiple carriers, multiple policies, it's not something that most enterprises want to deal with. By abstracting all that complexity away. We allow customers to focus on what they care about. Is how do I connect? Enable user connectivity with applications. And we take care of the underlay right. So I think those are the key things. I mean it's essentially the last leg of the stool if you will. In terms of moving truly to the cloud era. >> Alright well Praveen Akkiraju thank you so much for joining us again. You're watching the worldwide leader in live enterprise tech coverage the Cube. (upbeat music)

(lively music) >> Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Supercloud presentation here. I'm theCUBE, I'm John Furrier, your host. What a great segment here. We're going to unpack the networking aspect of the cloud, how that translates into what Supercloud architecture and platform deployment scenarios look like. And demystify multi-cloud, hybridcloud. We've got two great experts. Amir Khan, the Co-Founder and CEO of Alkira, Atif Khan, Co-Founder and CTO of Alkira. These guys been around since 2018 with the startup, but before that story, history in the tech industry. I mean, routing early days, multiple waves, multiple cycles. >> Welcome three decades. >> Welcome to Supercloud. >> Thanks. >> Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you so much for having us. >> So, let's get your take on Supercloud because it's been one of those conversations that really galvanized the industry because it kind of highlights almost this next wave, this next side of the street that everyone's going to be on that's going to be successful. The laggards on the legacy seem to be stuck on the old model. SaaS is growing up, it's ISVs, it's ecosystems, hyperscale, full hybrid. And then multi-cloud around the corners cause all this confusion, everyone's hand waving. You know, this is a solution, that solution, where are we? What do you guys see as this supercloud dynamic? >> So where we start from is always focusing on the customer problem. And in 2018 when we identified the problem, we saw that there were multiple clouds with many diverse ways of doing things from the network perspective, and customers were struggling with that. So we delved deeper into that and looked at each one of the cloud architectures completely independent. And there was no common solution and customers were struggling with that from the perspective. They wanted to be in multiple clouds, either through mergers and acquisitions or running an application which may be more cost effective to run in something or maybe optimized for certain reasons to run in a different cloud. But from the networking perspective, everything needed to come together. So that's, we are starting to define it as a supercloud now, but basically, it's a common infrastructure across all clouds. And then integration of high lift services like, you know, security or IPAM services or many other types of services like inter-partner routing and stuff like that. So, Amir, you agree then that multi-cloud is simply a default result of having whatever outcomes, either M&A, some productivity software, maybe Azure. >> Yes. >> Amazon has this and then I've got on-premise application, so it's kinds mishmash. >> So, I would qualify it with hybrid multi-cloud because everything is going to be interconnected. >> John: Got it. >> Whether it's on-premise, remote users or clouds. >> But have CTO perspective, obviously, you got developers, multiple stacks, got AWS, Azure and GCP, other. Not everyone wants to kind of like go all in, but yet they don't want to hedge too much because it's a resource issue. And I got to learn this stack, I got to learn that stack. So then now, you have this default multi-cloud, hybrid multi-cloud, then it's like, okay, what do I do? How do you spread that around? Is it dangerous? What's the the approach technically? What's some of the challenges there? >> Yeah, certainly. John, first, thanks for having us here. So, before I get to that, I'll just add a little bit to what Amir was saying, like how we started, what we were seeing and how it, you know, correlates with the supercloud. So, as you know, before this company, Alkira, we were doing, we did the SD-WAN company, which was Viptela. So there, we started seeing when people started deploying SD-WAN at like a larger scale. We started like, you know, customers coming to us and saying they needed connectivity into the cloud from the SD-WAN. They wanted to extend the SD-WAN fabric to the cloud. So we came up with an architecture, which was like later we started calling them Cloud onRamps, where we built, you know, a transit VPC and put like the virtual instances of SD-WAN appliances extended from there to the cloud. But before we knew, like it started becoming very complicated for the customers because it wasn't just connectivity, it also required, you know, other use cases. You had to instantiate or bring in security appliances in there. You had to secure all of that stuff. There were requirements for, you know, different regions. So you had to bring up the same thing in different regions. Then multiple clouds, what did you do? You had to replicate the same thing in multiple clouds. And now if there was was requirement between clouds, how were you going to do it? You had to route traffic from somewhere, and come up with all those routing controls and stuff. So, it was very complicated. >> Like spaghetti code, but on network. >> The games begin, in fact, one of our customers called it spaghetti mess. And so, that's where like we thought about where was the industry going and which direction the industry was going into? And we came up with the Alkira where what we are doing is building a common infrastructure across multiple clouds, across in, you know, on-prem locations, be it data centers or physical sites, branches sites, et cetera, with integrated security and network networking services inside. And, you know, nowadays, networking is not only about connectivity, you have to secure everything. So, security has to be built in. Redundancy, high availability, disaster recovery. So all of that needs to be built in. So that's like, you know, kind of a definition of like what we thought at that time, what is turning into supercloud now. >> Yeah. It's interesting too, you mentioned, you know, VPCs is not, configuration of loans a hassle. Nevermind the manual mistakes could be made, but as you decide to do something you got to, "Oh, we got to get these other things." A lot of the hyper scales and a lot of the alpha cloud players now, and cloud native folks, they're kind of in that mode of, "Wow, look at what we've built." Now, they're got to maintain, how do I refresh it? Like, how do I keep the talent? So they got this similar chaotic environment where it's like, okay, now they're already already through, so I think they're going to be okay. But then some people want to bypass it completely. So there's a lot of customers that we see out there that fit the makeup of, I'm cloud first, I've lifted and shifted, I move some stuff to the cloud. But I want to bypass all that learnings from all the people that are gone through the past three years. Can I just skip that and go to a multi-cloud or coherent infrastructure? What do you think about that? What's your view? >> So yeah, so if you look at these enterprises, you know, many of them just to find like the talent, which for one cloud as far as the IT staff is concerned, it's hard enough. And now, when you have multiple clouds, it's hard to find people the talent which is, you know, which has expertise across different clouds. So that's where we come into the picture. So our vision was always to simplify all of this stuff. And simplification, it cannot be just simplification because you cannot just automate the workflows of the cloud providers underneath. So you have to, you know, provide your full data plane on top of it, fed full control plane, management plane, policy and management on top of it. And coming back to like your question, so these nowadays, those people who are working on networking, you know, before it used to be like CLI. You used to learn about Cisco CLI or Juniper CLI, and you used to work on it. Nowadays, it's very different. So automation, programmability, all of that stuff is the key. So now, you know, Ops guys, the DevOps guys, so these are the people who are in high demand. >> So what do you think about the folks out there that are saying, okay, you got a lot of fragmentation. I got the stacks, I got a lot of stove pipes, if you will, out there on the stack. I got to learn this from Azure. Can you guys have with your product abstract the way that's so developers don't need to know the ins and outs of stack's, almost like a gateway, if you will, the old days. But like I'm a developer or team develop, why should I have to learn the management layer of Azure? >> That's exactly what we started, you know, out with to solve. So it's, what we have built is a platform and the platform sits inside the cloud. And customers are able to build their own network or a virtual network on top using that platform. So the platform has its own data plane, own control plane and management plane with a policy layer on top of it. So now, it's the platform which is sitting in different clouds, but from a customer's point of view, it's one way of doing networking. One way of instantiating or bringing in services or security services in the middle. Whether those are our security services or whether those are like services from our partners, like Palo Alto or Checkpoint or Cisco. >> So you guys brought the SD-WAN mojo and refactored it for the cloud it sounds like. >> No. >> No? (chuckles) >> We cannot said. >> All right, explain. >> It's way more than that. >> I mean, SD-WAN was wan. I mean, you're talking about wide area networks, talking about connected, so explain the difference. >> SD-WAN was primarily done for one major reason. MPLS was expensive, very strong SLAs, but very low speed. Internet, on the other hand, you sat at home and you could access your applications much faster. No SLA, very low cost, right? So we wanted to marry the two together so you could have a purely private infrastructure and a public infrastructure and secure both of them by creating a common secure fabric across all those environments. And then seamlessly tying it into your internal branch and data center and cloud network. So, it merely brought you to the edge of the cloud. It didn't do anything inside the cloud. Now, the major problem resides inside the clouds where you have to optimize the clouds themselves. Take a step back. How were the clouds built? Basically, the cloud providers went to the Ciscos and Junipers and the rest of the world, built the network in the data centers or across wide area infrastructure, and brought it all together and tried to create a virtualized layer on top of that. But there were many limitations of this underlying infrastructure that they had built. So number of routes per region, how inter region connectivity worked, or how many routes you could carry to the VPCs of V nets? That all those were becoming no common policy across, you know, these environments, no segmentation across these environments, right? So the networking constructs that the enterprise customers were used to as enterprise class carry class capabilities, they did not exist in the cloud. So what did the customer do? They ended up stitching it together all manually. And that's why Atif was alluding to earlier that it became a spaghetti mess for the customers. And then what happens is, as a result, day two operations, you know, troubleshooting, everything becomes a nightmare. So what do you do? You have to build an infrastructure inside the cloud. Cloud has enough raw capabilities to build the solutions inside there. Netflix's of the world. And many different companies have been born in the cloud and evolved from there. So why could we not take the raw capabilities of the clouds and build a network cloud or a supercloud on top of these clouds to optimize the whole infrastructure and seamlessly connecting it into the on-premise and remote user locations, right? So that's your, you know, hybrid multi-cloud solution. >> Well, great call out on the SD-WAN in common versus cloud. 'Cause I think this is important because you're building a network layer in the cloud that spans out so the customers don't have to get into the, there's a gap in the system that I'm used to, my operating environment, of having lockdown security and network. >> So yeah. So what you do is you use the raw capabilities like bandwidth or virtual machines, or you know, containers, or, you know, different types of serverless capabilities. And you bring it all together in a way to solve the networking problems, thereby creating a supercloud, which is an abstraction layer which hides all the complexity of the underlying clouds from the customer, right? And it provides a common infrastructure across all environments to that customer, right? That's the beauty of it. And it does it in a way that it looks like, if they have the networking knowledge, they can apply it to this new environment and carry it forward. One way of doing security across all clouds and hybrid environments. One way of doing routing. One way of doing large-scale network address translation. One way of doing IPAM services. So people are tired of doing individual things and individual clouds and on-premise locations, right? So now they're getting something common. >> You guys brought that, you brought all that to bear and flexible for the customer to essentially self-serve their network cloud. >> Yes, yeah. Is that the wave? >> And nowadays, from business perspective, agility is the key, right? You have to move at the pace of the business. If you don't, you are losing. >> So, would it be safe to say that you guys have a network supercloud? >> Absolutely, yeah. >> We, pretty much, yeah. Absolutely. >> What does that mean to our customer? What's in it for them? What's the benefit to the customer? I got a network supercloud, it connects, provides SLA, all the capabilities I need. What do they get? What's the end point for them? What's the end? >> Atif, maybe you can talk some examples. >> The IT infrastructure is all like distributed now, right? So you have applications running in data centers. You have applications running in one cloud. Other cloud, public clouds, enterprises are depending on so many SaaS applications. So now, these are, you can call these endpoints. So a supercloud or a network cloud, from our perspective, it's a cloud in the middle or a network in the middle, which provides connectivity from any endpoint to any endpoint. So, you are able to connect to the supercloud or network cloud in one way no matter where you are. So now, whichever cloud you are in, whichever cloud you need to connect to. And also, it's not just connecting to the cloud. So you need to do a lot of stuff, a lot of networking inside the cloud also. So now, as Amir was saying, every cloud has its own from a networking, you know, the concept perspective or the construct, they are different. There are limitations in there also. So this supercloud, which is sitting on top, basically, your platform is sitting into the cloud, but the supercloud is built on top of using your platform. So that abstracts all those complexities, all those limitations. So now your limitations are whatever the limitations of that platform are. So now your platform, that platform is in our control. So we can keep building it, we can keep scaling it horizontally. Because one of the things is that, you know, in this cloud era, one of the things is autoscaling these services. So why can't the network now autoscale also, just like your other services. >> Network autoscaling is a genius idea, and I think that's a killer. I want to ask the the follow on question because I think, first of all, I love what you guys are doing. So, I think it's a great example of this new innovation. It's not obvious until you see it, right? Geographical is huge. So, you know, single instance, global instances, multiple instances, you're seeing global. How do you guys look at that global equation? Because as companies expand their clouds into geos, and then ultimately, you know, it's obviously continent, region and locales. You're going to have geographic issues. So, this is an extension of your network cloud? >> Amir: It is the extension of the network cloud because if you look at this hyperscalers, they're sitting pretty much everywhere in the globe. So, wherever their regions are, the beauty of building a supercloud is that you can by definition, be available in those regions. It literally takes a day or two of testing for our stack to run in those regions, to make sure there are no nuances that we run into, you know, for that region. The moment we bring it up in that region, all customers can onboard into that solution. So literally, what used to take months or years to build a global infrastructure, now, you can configure it in 10 minutes basically, and bring it up in less than one hour. Since when did we see any solution- >> And by the way, >> that can come up with. >> when the edge comes out too, you're going to start to see more clouds get bolted on. >> Exactly. And you can expand to the edge of the network. That's why we call cloud the new edge, right? >> John: Yeah, it is. Now, I think you guys got a good solutions, network clouds, superclouds, good. So the question on the premise side, so I get the cloud play. It's very cool. You can expand out. It's a nice layer. I'm sure you manage the SLAs between latency and all kinds of things. Knowing when not to do things. Physics or physics. Okay. Now, you've got the on-premise. What's the on-premise equation look like? >> So on-premise, the kind of customers, we are working with large enterprises, mid-size enterprises. So they have on-prem networks, they have deployed, in many cases, they have deployed SD-WAN. In many cases, they have MPLS. They have data centers also. And a lot of these companies are, you know, moving the applications from the data center into the cloud. But we still have large enterprise- >> But for you guys, you can sit there too with non server or is it a box or what is it? >> It's a software stack, right? So, we are a software company. >> Okay, so no box. >> No box. >> Okay, got it. >> No box. >> It's even better. So, we can connect any, as I mentioned, any endpoint, whether it's data centers. So, what happens is usually these enterprises from the data centers- >> John: It's a cloud endpoint for you. >> Cloud endpoint for us. And they need highspeed connectivity into the cloud. And our network cloud is sitting inside the or supercloud is sitting inside the cloud. So we need highspeed connectivity from the data centers. This is like multi-gig type of connectivity. So we enable that connectivity as a service. And as Amir was saying, you are able to bring it up in minutes, pretty much. >> John: Well, you guys have a great handle on supercloud. I really appreciate you guys coming on. I have to ask you guys, since you have so much experience in the industry, multiple inflection points you've guys lived through and we're all old, and we can remember those glory days. What's the big deal going on right now? Because you can connect the dots and you can imagine, okay, like a Lambda function spinning up some connectivity. I need instant access to a new route, throw some, I need to send compute to an edge point for process data. A lot of these kind of ad hoc services are going to start flying around, which used to be manually configured as you guys remember. >> Amir: And that's been the problem, right? The shadow IT, that was the biggest problem in the enterprise environment. So that's what we are trying to get the customers away from. Cloud teams came in, individuals or small groups of people spun up instances in the cloud. It was completely disconnected from the on-premise environment or the existing IT environment that the customer had. So, how do you bring it together? And that's what we are trying to solve for, right? At a large scale, in a carrier cloud center (indistinct). >> What do you call that? Shift right or shift left? Shift left is in the cloud native world security. >> Amir: Yes. >> Networking and security, the two hottest areas. What are you shifting? Up or down? I mean, the network's moving up the stack. I mean, you're seeing the run times at Kubernetes later' >> Amir: Right, right. It's true we're end-to-end virtualization. So you have plumbing, which is the physical infrastructure. Then on top of that, now for the first time, you have true end-to-end virtualization, which the cloud-like constructs are providing to us. We tried to virtualize the routers, we try to virtualize instances at the server level. Now, we are bringing it all together in a truly end-to-end virtualized manner to connect any endpoint anywhere across the globe. Whether it's on-premise, home, multiple clouds, or SaaS type environments. >> Yeah. If you talk about the technical benefits beyond virtualizations, you kind of see in virtualization be abstracted away. So you got end-to-end virtualization, but you don't need to know virtualization to take advantage of it. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> What are some of the tech involved where, what's the trend around on top of virtual? What's the easy button for that? >> So there are many, many use cases from the customers and they're, you know, some of those use cases, they used to deliver out of their data centers before. So now, because you, know, it takes a long time to spend something up in the data center and stuff. So the trend is and what enterprises are looking for is agility. And to achieve that agility, they are moving those services or those use cases into the cloud. So another technical benefit of like something like a supercloud and what we are doing is we allow customers to, you know, move their services from existing data centers into the cloud as well. And I'll give you some examples. You know, these enterprises have, you know, tons of partners. They provide connectivity to their partners, to select resources. It used to happen inside the data center. You would bring in connectivity into the data center and apply like tons of ACLs and whatnot to make sure that you are able to only connect. And now those use cases are, they need to be enabled inside the cloud. And the customer's customers are also, it's not just coming from the on-prem, they're coming from the cloud as well. So, if they're coming from the cloud as well as from on-prem, so you need like an infrastructure like supercloud, which is sitting inside the cloud and is able to handle all these use cases. So all of these use cases have to be, so that requires like moving those services from the data center into the cloud or into the supercloud. So, they're, oh, as we started building this service over the last four years, we have come across so many use cases. And to deliver those use cases, you have to have a platform. So you have to have your own platform because otherwise you are depending on somebody else's, you know, capabilities. And every time their capabilities change, you have to change. >> John: I'm glad you brought up the platform 'cause I want to get your both reaction to this. So Bob Muglia just said on theCUBE here at Supercloud, that supercloud is a platform that provides programmatically consistent services hosted on heterogeneous cloud providers. So the question is, is supercloud a platform or an architecture in your view? >> That's an interesting view on things, you know? I mean, if you think of it, you have to design or architect a solution before we turn it into a platform. >> John: It's a trick question actually. >> So it's a, you know, so we look at it as that you have to have an architectural approach end to end, right? And then you build a solution based on that approach. So, I don't think that they are mutually exclusive. I think they go hand in hand. It's an architecture that you turn into a solution and provide that agility and high availability and disaster recovery capability that it built into that. >> It's interesting that these definitions might be actually redefined with this new configuration. >> Amir: Yes. >> Because architecture and platform used to mean something, like, aight here's a platform, you buy this platform. >> And then you architecture solution. >> Architect it via vendor. >> Right, right, right. >> Okay. And they have to deal with that architecture in the place of multiple superclouds. If you have too many stove pipes, then what's the purpose of supercloud? >> Right, right, right. And because, you know, historically, you built a router and you sold it to the customer. And the poor customer was supposed to install it all, you know, and interconnect all those things. And if you have 40, 50,000 router network, which we saw in our lifetime, 'cause there used to be many more branches when we were growing up in the networking industry, right? You had to create hierarchy and all kinds of things to figure out how to solve that problem. We are no longer living in that world anymore. You cannot deploy individual virtual instances. And that's what approach a lot of people are taking, which is a pure overly network. You cannot take that approach anymore. You have to evolve the architecture and then build the solution based on that architecture so that it becomes a platform which is readily available, highly scalable, and available. And at the same time, it's very, very easy to deploy. It's a SaaS type solution, right? >> So you're saying, do the architecture to get the solution for the platform that the customer has. >> Amir: Yes. >> They're not buying a platform, they end up with a platform- >> With the platform. >> as a result of Supercloud path. All right. So that's what's, so you mentioned, that's a great point. I want to double click on what you just said. 'Cause I like that what you said. What's the deployment strategy in your mind for supercloud? I'm an architect. I'm at an enterprise in the Midwest. I'm an insurance company, got some cloud action going on. I'm mostly on-premise. I've got the mandate to transform the company. We have apps. We'll be fully transformed in five years. What's my strategy? What do I do? >> Amir: The resources. >> What's the deployment strategy? Single global instance, code in every region, on every cloud? >> It needs to be a solution which is available as a SaaS service, right? So from the customer's perspective, they are onboarding into the supercloud. And then the supercloud is allowing them to do whatever they used to do, you know, historically and in the new world, right? That needs to come together. And that's what we have built is that, we have brought everything together in a way that what used to take months or years, and now taking an hour or two hours, and then people test it for a week or so and deploy it in production. >> I want to bring up something we were talking about before we were on camera about the TCP/IP, the OSI model. That was a concept that destroyed the proprietary narcissist. Work operating systems of the mini computers, which brought in an era of tech prosperity for generations. TCP/IP was kind of the magical moment that allowed for that kind of super networking connection. Inter networking is what's called as a category. It feels like something's going on here with supercloud. The way you describe it, it feels like there's this unification idea. Like the reality is we've got multiple stuff sitting around by default, you either clean it up or get rid of it, right? Or it's almost a, it's either a nuance, a new nuisance or chaos. >> Yeah. And we live in the new world now. We don't have the luxury of time. So we need to move as fast as possible to solve the business problems. And that's what we are running into. If we don't have automated solutions which scale, which solve our problems, then it's going to be a problem. And that's why SaaS is so important in today's world. Why should we have to deploy the network piecemeal? Why can't we have a solution? We solve our problem as we move forward and we accomplish what we need to accomplish and move forward. >> And we don't really need standards here, dude. It's not that we need a standards body if you have unification. >> So because things move so fast, there's no time to create a standards body. And that's why you see companies like ours popping up, which are trying to create a common infrastructure across all clouds. Otherwise if we vent the standardization path may take long. Eventually, we should be going in that direction. But we don't have the luxury of time. That's what I was trying to get to. >> Well, what's interesting is, is that to your point about standards and ratification, what ratifies a defacto anything? In the old days there was some technical bodies involved, but here, I think developers drive everything. So if you look at the developers and how they're voting with their code. They're instantly, organically defining everything as a collective intelligence. >> And just like you're putting out the paper and making it available, everybody's contributing to that. That's why you need to have APIs and terra form type constructs, which are available so that the customers can continue to improve upon that. And that's the Net DevOps, right? So that you need to have. >> What was once sacrilege, just sayin', in business school, back in the days when I got my business degree after my CS degree was, you know, no one wants to have a better mousetrap, a bad business model to have a better mouse trap. In this case, the better mouse trap, the better solution actually could be that thing. >> It is that thing. >> I mean, that can trigger, tips over the industry. >> And that that's where we are seeing our customers. You know, I mean, we have some publicly referenceable customers like Coke or Warner Music Group or, you know, multiple others and chart industries. The way we are solving the problem. They have some of the largest environments in the industry from the cloud perspective. And their whole network infrastructure is running on the Alkira infrastructure. And they're able to adopt new clouds within days rather than waiting for months to architect and then deploy and then figure out how to manage it and operate it. It's available as a service. >> John: And we've heard from your customer, Warner, they were just on the program. >> Amir: Yes. Okay, okay. >> So they're building a supercloud. So superclouds aren't just for tech companies. >> Amir: No. >> You guys build a supercloud for networking. >> Amir: It is. >> But people are building their own superclouds on top of all this new stuff. Talk about that dynamic. >> Healthcare providers, financials, high-tech companies, even startups. One of our startup customers, Tekion, right? They have these dealerships that they provide sales and support services to across the globe. And for them to be able to onboard those dealerships, it is 80% less time to production. That is real money, right? So, maybe Atif can give you a lot more examples of customers who are deploying. >> Talk about some of the customer activity. What are they like? Are they laggards, they innovators? Are they trying to hit the easy button? Are they coming in late or are you got some high customers? >> Actually most of our customers, all of our customers or customers in general. I don't think they have a choice but to move in this direction because, you know, the cloud has, like everything is quick now. So the cloud teams are moving faster in these enterprises. So now that they cannot afford the network nor to keep up pace with the cloud teams. So, they don't have a choice but to go with something similar where you can, you know, build your network on demand and bring up your network as quickly as possible to meet all those use cases. So, I'll give you an example. >> John: So the demand's high for what you guys do. >> Demand is very high because the cloud teams have- >> John: Yeah. They're going fast. >> They're going fast and there's no stopping. And then network teams, they have to keep up with them. And you cannot keep deploying, you know, networks the way you used to deploy back in the day. And as far as the use cases are concerned, there are so many use cases which our customers are using our platform for. One of the use cases, I'll give you an example of these financial customers. Some of the financial customers, they have their customers who they provide data, like stock exchanges, that provide like market data information to their customers out of data centers part. But now, their customers are moving into the cloud as well. So they need to come in from the cloud. So when they're coming in from the cloud, you cannot be giving them data from your data center because that takes time, and your hair pinning everything back. >> Moving data is like moving, moving money, someone said. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. And the other thing is like you have to optimize your traffic flows in the cloud as well because every time you leave the cloud, you get charged a lot. So, you don't want to leave the cloud unless you have to leave the cloud, your traffic. So, you have to come up or use a service which allows you to optimize all those traffic flows as well, you know? >> My final question to you guys, first of all, thanks for coming on Supercloud Program. Really appreciate it. Congratulations on your success. And you guys have a great positioning and I'm a big fan. And I have to ask, you guys are agile, nimble startup, smart on the cutting edge. Supercloud concept seems to resonate with people who are kind of on the front range of this major wave. While all the incumbents like Cisco, Microsoft, even AWS, they're like, I think they're looking at it, like what is that? I think it's coming up really fast, this trend. Because I know people talk about multi-cloud, I get that. But like, this whole supercloud is not just SaaS, it's more going on there. What do you think is going on between the folks who get it, supercloud, get the concept, and some are who are scratching their heads, whether it's the Ciscos or someone, like I don't get it. Why is supercloud important for the folks that aren't really seeing it? >> So first of all, I mean, the customers, what we saw about six months, 12 months ago, were a little slower to adopt the supercloud kind of concept. And there were leading edge customers who were coming and adopting it. Now, all of a sudden, over the last six to nine months, we've seen a flurry of customers coming in and they are from all disciplines or all very diverse set of customers. And they're starting to see the value of that because of the practical implications of what they're doing. You know, these shadow IT type environments are no longer working and there's a lot of pressure from the management to move faster. And then that's where they're coming in. And perhaps, Atif, if you can give a few examples of. >> Yeah. And I'll also just add to your point earlier about the network needing to be there 'cause the cloud teams are like, let's go faster. And the network's always been slow because, but now, it's been almost turbocharged. >> Atif: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And as I said, like there was no choice here. You had to move in this industry. And the other thing I would add a little bit is now if you look at all these enterprises, most of their traffic is from, even from which is coming from the on-prem, it's going to the cloud SaaS applications or public clouds. And it's more than 50% of traffic, which is leaving your, you know, what you used to call, your network or the private network. So now it's like, you know, before it used to just connect sites to data centers and sites together. Now, it's a cloud as well as the SaaS application. So it's either internet bound or the public cloud bound. So now you have to build a network quickly, which caters to all these use cases. And that's where like something- >> And you guys, your solution to me is you eliminate all that work for the customer. Now, they can treat the cloud like a bag of Legos. And do their thing. Well, I oversimplify. Well, you know I'm talking about. >> Atif: Right, exactly. >> And to answer your question earlier about what about the big companies coming in and, you know, now they slow to adopt? And, you know, what normally happens is when Cisco came up, right? There used to be 16 different protocols suites. And then we finally settled on TCP/IP and DECnet or AppleTalk or X&S or, you know, you name it, right? Those companies did not adapt to the networking the way it was supposed to be done. And guess what happened, right? So if the companies in the networking space do not adopt this new concept or new way of doing things, I think some of them will become extinct over time. >> Well, I think the force and function too is the cloud teams as well. So you got two evolutions. You got architectural relevance. That's real as impact. >> It's very important. >> Cost, speed. >> And I look at it as a very similar disruption to what Cisco's the world, very early days did to, you know, bring the networking out, right? And it became the internet. But now we are going through the cloud. It's the cloud era, right? How does the cloud evolve over the next 10, 15, 20 years? Everything's is going to be offered as a service, right? So slowly data centers go away, the network becomes a plumbing thing. Very, you know, simple to deploy. And everything on top of that is virtualized in the cloud-like manners. >> And that makes the networks hardened and more secure. >> More secure. >> It's a great way to be secure. You remember the glory days, we'll go back 15 years. The Cisco conversation was, we got to move up to stack. All the manager would fight each other. Now, what does that actually mean? Stay where we are. Stay in your lane. This is kind of like the network's version of moving up the stack because not so much up the stack, but the cloud is everywhere. It's almost horizontally scaled. >> It's extending into the on-premise. It is already moving towards the edge, right? So, you will see a lot- >> So, programmability is a big program. So you guys are hitting programmability, compatibility, getting people into an environment they're comfortable operating. So the Ops people love it. >> Exactly. >> Spans the clouds to a level of SLA management. It might not be perfectly spanning applications, but you can actually know latencies between clouds, measure that. And then so you're basically managing your network now as the overall infrastructure. >> Right. And it needs to be a very intelligent infrastructure going forward, right? Because customers do not want to wait to be able to troubleshoot. They don't want to be able to wait to deploy something, right? So, it needs to be a level of automation. >> Okay. So the question for you guys both on we'll end on is what is the enablement that, because you guys are a disruptive enabler, right? You create this fabric. You're going to enable companies to do stuff. What are some of the things that you see and your customers might be seeing as things that they're going to do as a result of having this enablement? So what are some of those things? >> Amir: Atif, perhaps you can talk through the some of the customer experience on that. >> It's agility. And we are allowing these customers to move very, very quickly and build these networks which meet all these requirements inside the cloud. Because as Amir was saying, in the cloud era, networking is changing. And if you look at, you know, going back to your comment about the existing networking vendors. Some of them still think that, you know, just connecting to the cloud using some concepts like Cloud OnRamp is cloud networking, but it's changing now. >> John: 'Cause there's apps that are depending upon. >> Exactly. And it's all distributed. Like IT infrastructure, as I said earlier, is all distributed. And at the end of the day, you have to make sure that wherever your user is, wherever your app is, you are able to connect them securely. >> Historically, it used to be about building a router bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, you know, and then interconnecting those routers. Now, it's all about horizontal scale. You don't need to build big, you need to scale it, right? And that's what cloud brings to the customer. >> It's a cultural change for Cisco and Juniper because they have to understand that they're still could be in the game and still win. >> Exactly. >> The question I have for you, what are your customers telling you that, what's some of the anecdotal, like, 'cause you guys have a good solution, is it, "Oh my god, you guys saved my butt." Or what are some of the commentary that you hear from the customers in terms of praise and and glory from your solution? >> Oh, some even say, when we do our demo and stuff, they say it's too hard to believe. >> Believe. >> Like, too hard. It's hard, you know, it's >> I dont believe you. They're skeptics. >> I don't believe you that because now you're able to bring up a global network within minutes. With networking services, like let's say you have APAC, you know, on-prem users, cloud also there, cloud here, users here, you can bring up a global network with full routed connectivity between all these endpoints with security services. You can bring up like a firewall from a third party or our services in the middle. This is a matter of minutes now. And this is all high speed connectivity with SLAs. Imagine like before connecting, you know, Singapore to U.S. East or Hong Kong to Frankfurt, you know, if you were putting your infrastructure in columns like E-connects, you would have to go, you know, figure out like, how am I going to- >> Seal line In, connect to it? Yeah. A lot of hassles, >> If you had to put like firewalls in the middle, segmentation, you had to, you know, isolate different entities. >> That's called heavy lifting. >> So what you're seeing is, you know, it's like customer comes in, there's a disbelief, can you really do that? And then they try it out, they go, "Wow, this works." Right? It's deployed in a small environment. And then all of a sudden they start taking off, right? And literally we have seen customers go from few thousand dollars a month or year type deployments to multi-million dollars a year type deployments in very, very short amount of time, in a few months. >> And you guys are pay as you go? >> Pay as you go. >> Pay as go usage cloud-based compatibility. >> Exactly. And it's amazing once they get to deploy the solution. >> What's the variable on the cost? >> On the cost? >> Is it traffic or is it. >> It's multiple different things. It's packaged into the overall solution. And as a matter of fact, we end up saving a lot of money to the customers. And not only in one way, in multiple different ways. And we do a complete TOI analysis for the customers. So it's bandwidth, it's number of connections, it's the amount of compute power that we are using. >> John: Similar things that they're used to. >> Just like the cloud constructs. Yeah. >> All right. Networking supercloud. Great. Congratulations. >> Thank you so much. >> Thanks for coming on Supercloud. >> Atif: Thank you. >> And looking forward to seeing more of the demand. Translate, instant networking. I'm sure it's going to be huge with the edge exploding. >> Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Congratulations. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you so much. >> Okay. So this is Supercloud 2 event here in Palo Alto. I'm John Furrier. The network Supercloud is here. Checkout Alkira. I'm John Furry, the host. Thanks for watching. (lively music)

(light music) >> Welcome back to Supercloud 22. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We're here Palo Alto for a big event. Supercloud 22, we've got a great ecosystem conversation here. Ramesh Prabagaran, who's the co-founder and CEO, Prosimo. Ramesh, great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks for having me, John. >> So, I wanted to bring you in because we've had previous CUBE conversations around cloud networking, latency, you also have some, some pedigree, Viptela. The folks in the industry know that's been a deep tech company. >> Yep. >> You have been around the block. You've seen the movie before. You've seen the tech trends. You've seen the hype. You've seen the fluff. Where's the meat on the bone with Supercloud in your opinion? >> So it, it starts with what enterprises are struggling with, right? And if you take a very simple example, it's actually quite fresh in my mind because I was just having this conversation this morning. A large bank has an application sitting in AWS, right? And they have to provide the application access to the treasury, to their suppliers, to ticker feeds, to all their downstream partners, and so on and so forth. Guess what? They don't control, where all those things are. They're in very different regions and very different clouds. And so you, whether you like it or not, you have a problem here, right? And so it starts with, for the particular bank, what are the capabilities that they need, right? And so AWS provides a whole host of native capabilities, but they still need to build a few more things on top. So going by, essentially the definition of Supercloud, even within a single cloud you need to build a few more capabilities on top. That gets worsened by the fact that now you need to provide access to various other clouds, various other regions and, and so forth. So, whether we like it or not, this movie is here to stay. >> What's the difference between Supercloud and multi-cloud? Because multi-cloud, I've been saying, is not necessarily a market yet. >> Correct, yes. So, Supercloud is essentially the cloud native capabilities provided by the hyperscalers, get you probably 30, 40% of the way, right? But then, in order to deliver on a care about, right? In our case, from a cloud networking standpoint, that is experience, that's performance, reliability, zero trust access, and then so forth. You have to take that a little bit further, and so we have vendors, like us, that actually build capabilities on top of the hyperscalers, right? Now, even if you think of a single cloud, how you build that is different on AWS than it's on Azure, than on GCP. But do the customers care? No, they want to be able to consume it in exactly the same way across all of them. So, whether it's multi-cloud or a single cloud, you have a problem that is white space on top of the hyperscalers capabilities that you just need to build. >> And what problems is it solving today? Because again, I, again, multi-cloud, I've yet seen the problem. I kind of get what's happening. Multiple clouds do exist. Use cases matter, maybe best debri, but they're standalone. They're not really interoperating, so to speak. So people have been successful on, on public cloud. >> That's correct, yes. >> For use cases? >> Absolutely. So even if you take a single cloud, for example, right? You have multiple problems to, to address. So let's take the example of, I have users coming from various different regions, around the globe, and I have apps that are spread, maybe not across like all clouds, but single cloud, maybe multiple regions, right? Now, I have a reach problem, which is, I need to go from where the user is to where the application is sitting. I have an experience problem because if my spinning wheel shows up, I'm going to go crazy. I have a security problem because I want to make sure it's only me that have access to it, right? But does the cloud provider solve for this entirely? No, they give you the nuts, the bolts, or what we call ours essentially, what you need is a, is a latte. They give you really nice coffee beans, not just one flavor, 20 flavors of those. They give you raw sugar and a few other things. They give you five different flavors of milk, but you got to make your own latte. So, that's what we do. >> And this is where the infrastructure transformation's happening. >> Exactly. >> And the super paz layer, as Dave Vellante and I have talked about in cloud, is you have to integrate a native cloud. >> Correct. >> Which is beautiful. It's integrated, everything works together, there's a lot of lattes to be made or espressos. >> Exactly. >> I mean, tons of great things there. So, big check marks, double check, gold star for AWS. >> Correct. >> All good. Now, on premises, we've found that hybrid is a steady state. >> Exactly. >> Okay, that's cloud operations. Now, you got the edge. Where does the Supercloud strategy come in? For the folks watching there, it's like, "Hey, okay, I get that." "But I don't want to just buy into another vendor's hype." >> Absolutely. >> "I got to build my own cloud," to your point about the lattes. >> Correct. >> They have to make their own infrastructure an application environment to power the developer. >> Exactly. And, and hybrid is here to stay as, as you pointed out, right, John? So, I have my data center and let's say when most folks start out they start to like a single region of a single cloud, right? And what are you most concerned about there? Hey, can I migrate? Can I start to build applications in the public cloud, right? And all you care about is can you talk back into my data center? Like, as long as some basic hygiene is there that's all they care about, right? The problem happens when you go from, kind of, the first five EC2 instances to 50 to a hundred, then you have a few other things that you need to care about, right? That's really kind of where the, the Supercloud capabilities start to come in, right? Because you have the cloud native things you can make that work for the first few days, but then after that you need augmented capabilities. >> So Ramesh, some people will say, "Hey, John, Supercloud okay, it's funny, ha ha ha." But isn't it just SAS? >> No, SAS is a delivery mechanism, right? And so, so there is the capability and that is how do you want to consume, right? And so capabilities or cloud native capabilities or piece of software capabilities or (unintelligible) cluster form factor and so forth. How do you want to consume? Maybe it's a package form factor, it is a size, it could even be passive if it's sitting in the, in the element, and then so forth, right? And so you really want to distinguish those two. And, and, and that's how we see the, the industry evolve. >> Can Superclouds be specialty clouds? Like is Snowflake a Supercloud? Is Goldman Sachs financial cloud a Supercloud? >> Absolutely, right. So Supercloud is not like a, a conglomeration of multiple capabilities, right? It can be for a specific use case, it can be for a specific functionality. So we, we consider our capabilities by the definition as a Supercloud in, in networking, right? In cloud networking, in Prosimo. So, does that solve the entirety of what I want to do in the cloud? No, absolutely not. There's data, there's computers, a whole bunch of other things, but for a specialty you do have some Supercloud. >> Yeah, in fact, I had a note here. I was going to ask you will, when will there be specialty clouds, apps, identity, data, security, nteworking, we will see those? >> Absolutely, yeah. And, and those are slowly starting to brew, right? So you have, you have identity as one, you have networking as one, you have the zero trust piece as, as another one, you have data as a, as another one. So when all these things come together, absolutely. That's what, that's what enterprise customers care about. >> So I love infrastructure as code, that drove a lot of the evolution and revolution of DevOps. When are we going to see security as code and network as code? Or is it there? >> No networkers code, for sure. It's already, it's already there. It's probably in its early innings, I would say, but we are starting to see that already. The reason for that is really simple. Enough CIOs have yelled at their networking teams to say, "my app guys can get this done three," "four times a day, you get this done once a week." Right? And so, that has actually driven quite a bit of innovation, >> It's slow, >> It's slow, right? And so that's driven quite a bit of innovation. It all starts with, hey, can I build a Terraform provider and then just integrate into Terraform? But it doesn't, it doesn't stop there, right? There's a whole bunch of additional capabilities, a day in troubleshooting, a whole bunch of things that need to come together. But I would say networkers code has already started to, to, to take ship. >> Which, that's a great point about specialty clouds. What about vertical clouds too? 'Cause you got insurance, oil and gas, FinTech. Both sides of the stack can have specialty clouds. >> Absolutely, yeah. So, it, what's driving specialty clouds, right? Some of it is compliance, mainly because you just have to shard the data, and when you shard the data, the entirety gets, gets sharded, right? Some of it driven by use case, because some are a little more serverless, service mesh and intelligence focused, some are a little more infrastructure focused. So you do see that taking off. I would say we've seen a whole lot more, kind of, on the horizontal side, less on the vertical side, but that's really happening, right? >> Yeah, I think that, to me, indicates a Supercloud. The fact that the diversity of the application on the clouds themselves, someone could be spending, say, Liberty Mutual or Goldman Sachs. They were once spending that as CapEx. >> Exactly. >> Now it's OPEX, so they become a service provider. So, if you have scale with data and expertise, you become a Supercloud by default. And you don't have to pay for the CapEx, >> Yeah. You're already paying in. >> Exactly, yeah. >> And that's what snowflake basically did with data warehouse. >> That's right, yeah. >> I mean they're basically a data warehouse. Refactored on the cloud and then go, "whoa, let's go to Azure." >> Yeah. And, and where does that data decide do you ask that question? No, right? You just assume that, hey, retrospective of it's a single cloud, multiple regions, it's there. If it's stretched to multiple clouds, yes, it's just there, but you, you talk about like that. >> In our cloud already panel earlier, we talked about how companies are going fast on one native cloud, 'cause they don't want to have multiple development teams and different ops teams. They go all in say, hey, mostly AWS wins this, unless it's specially Azure productivity software or SQL database, go hard in on Amazon, get speed and velocity, get that flywheel, win, get scale, get value. Then go to Azure, provide that same value to that marketplace and other clouds. Then the next dot to connect is, can the customer have the same experience across the clouds? That's where it gets interesting. What's your thoughts on that? >> Actually, it gets interesting even when they go from a single cloud in a single region to multiple regions, right? And the, the more spread out the regions are, you have requirements around application performance, application experience and so forth. So, suddenly the networking conversation starts to become an experience and a performance conversation. The security conversation starts to become a zero trust conversation and so forth. And so you, you do see that, that interesting shift that's happening. >> Of course. >> Exactly. And then that gets worsened by the fact that now you have multiple clouds, multiple regions, and then... >> So you got regions, clouds, >> and then you have edge locations now. >> And edge. >> You mentioned edge. >> This, this is why I think multi-cloud is BS, because this is all coming so fast. You got to get your Supercloud first. >> Exactly. >> Then you extend into, what it looks like a multi-vendor or multifaceted environment that should be automated by that time. >> Exactly. >> So it's evolutionary, we're not there yet. >> Exactly. >> So you agree, no market yet? >> That's right, yes. So unless it's like the super large enterprises where we have seen a really good mix of multiple different clouds or super large enterprises where each business unit is free to choose the cloud of their choice for the application developers because they just like a certain cloud, right? >> Or negotiations. >> Or negotiations, right? Exactly, so there you find yourself in a healthy mix. It's not like you're 80, 10, 10. It's, it's a healthy mix of three different clouds, right? But vast majority of the enterprises, they have a concerted strategy, I have a primary cloud 'cause that's where two, two big CEOs shake hands and assign multi billion dollar deals, right? >> It's just a song with Howie Shute, who's now a Zscaler, former VMware. Probably know Howie, he's a legend in the community as well. We were talking about the old days of the data center and you remember that? We'll go back to our, into our, you know, historical views of experience. Back when the data center became popular this was the glass house. Mainframes to mini computers. It became a complex environment. You had to have pretty much a PhD or serious networking or some sort of technical background. And then IT was born, the local area networks, the mini computers, and the PCs change that dynamic. IT was born. Okay, and let's just say it, most IT guys aren't PhDs. >> Exactly. >> So what's happened there is democratization and the operations side of that wave. We're kind of going th&rough it now, don't ya think, with cloud? Like, you got to be super smart to wrangle the data. I mean, some of the data pipelining stuff is super complex, after Snowflake and data bricks. >> Absolutely. And largely depends on the maturity, right? Like, so once you pass a certain scale in the cloud the care abouts start to be very different. The care abouts are, how can I operate this at scale? Because I might have started off with a relatively inefficient infrastructure, right? But now if I start to operate that at scale with like thousands of VPCs and so forth, somebody is looking at an AWS bill there and going, "ah, no, no, no, we're not going to do that." >> We're getting to the good part now. So, so here's where I wanted to get to, 'Cause we're kind of getting there, The proof points of Supercloud is IT like operations, >> Correct. >> Easy. >> Yep. >> Not overstaffed and maybe an SRE model one too many. >> Yeah, exactly. >> What are the proof points do you see that would be evidence that Supercloud is working? >> So in a well functional model where we have seen enterprises take the applications that they care about and then move that into the public cloud or build it organically. If they have staffed their team, I think a good leading indicator is that they have staffed the team so that there are a bunch of guys who understand what it means for cloud native capabilities. There are a bunch of guys who then put it together and then you look at the care abouts, right? Ultimately at the end of the day, the goal, if you go higher up in the layers, is it about application experience? Is it about kind of reducing the blast radius of my security? Is it about my data cleanliness and, and hygiene? You don't care about kind of how the pipelining works underneath the covers or how do I put a transit gateway and this and that together? No, that's not what you care about. You care about kind of the outcomes and, and- >> Palmer (unintelligible) that VMware, when he was there. You just say the hardened top, no one talks about what's in an Intel processor. I mean it's just works. >> Exactly, yeah. And it's what applications you build on top of that Intel processor that actually makes it more powerful, right? And so the first evidence I would say is kind of how is the team structured? The second evidence would be kind of what, what are the care abouts for the guys that are building these applications, right? Because even the application developers more than the application, they care about kind of, is it helping? Is it delivering on the experience? Is it being used the way it's supposed to? >> Is it value? >> Exactly, right? And those are not areas that the cloud providers are solely focused on, right? Like you don't see an AWS or an Azure dashboard show that particular thing for the entirety of the application, they'll tell you for the ATR services that you, that you use, here's the SLA for each one of these services. >> And that's where the customer has to build it. >> Exactly right. Now, does that give you the full picture? No, it doesn't. Somebody has to pull this together. Somebody has to aggregate this together and then make sense as to whether this is working or not, right? So whether you call it Supercloud, or whether you call it kind of the care abouts on top of the cloud native stuff, they're all the same. I'm glad you guys came up with a, with a name for this. And I think it's going to be here to stay. >> Well, thank you for sharing your expertise. You got a great background in this area and you got, I think you guys are right on the front wave of this new change. I think a little bit early, but that's good, but don't be too early. >> Yeah, exactly. No, and, and, and that's really important, right, John? So, you don't want to be too early. You certainly don't want to be too late, but at the same time, the pace at which things are evolving are fast enough that you, you will see. I think when, if we have this conversation even three months from now, it might be a very different conversation. >> Yeah, people want to go fast and they don't want to get stuck with a vendor. They made a bad choice that slows 'em down 'cause they got problems to solve, things to build. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Ramesh, thanks for coming on, Supercloud 22, we're breaking it all down. We're exposing it out to everyone. We're discussing it. We're going to challenge it. But ultimately it is a thing. Supercloud 22. Thanks for watching. >> Wonderful, thanks John. (light music)

(upbeat music) >> Hi everybody, this is Dave Vellante. And welcome to this CUBE conversation where we welcome an ESG senior analyst, Bob Laliberte Bob, good to see you. >> Great to see you too. Thanks for having me >> Love it, I love to have the analyst sessions. Set it up. What's your scope, what's your area of expertise? >> So my coverage area right now is networking in its entirety. So that spans everything from enterprise networking, wired, wireless, campus, data center, et cetera. All the way up through telco and, in cloud networking. >> So how do you look at the landscape? One of the big things I think about a lot is how does the shift to cloud migration? How does that affect the existing, network layers? I mean, you got Cisco as the big whale and it's just, it's amazing to me. They still have whatever percent market share they have 60, 65% of the market. Are things, what's happening in the competitive landscape. How is cloud affecting that? >> That's a great question. I think the interesting piece is so many times organizations think about the network as plumbing. But the reality is the it's really important plumbing because as you talk about cloud and things get more distributed, well, guess what connects those distributed locations? It's the network. And so organizations as they've moved to the cloud you've seen a big shift with things like SD-WAN and so forth. How do I get more efficient connectivity up to that cloud? How do I not only enable able better connectivity between my data centers in the cloud, but now all my remote workers in the cloud. And so there's been a lot of big shifts going on that have driven the importance of having not only network, but secure networks. So like I said, cloud is one thing, and you're moving your applications there. But with the pandemic you saw the remote work. Think about the network administrators who we're managing, hey, I've got to control network connections between my data centers, a couple clouds and maybe dozens maybe a hundred remote branches. And now I'm connecting to 10,000 micro branches that I need to ensure that they can connect up to these applications and so forth. Hell of a lot more complex environment today than it used to be for these network teams. When we look at the, what we're seeing, how the networking providers are responding it's by driving comprehensive end-to-end solutions. So unifying, wired, wireless, and WAN. Driving efficiencies there. You're seeing even ThousandEyes for Cisco and things like that. Because they know the Internet's becoming more integral part of the corporate network. So being able to drive those types of things being able to, I think look at how to drive those operational efficiencies through AI and ML. So one of the big shifts we've seen in networking is the transition to cloud-based network management. And obviously that couple of things that helps with, first of all, the operations teams who are working remotely can more easily access it. But once all that data is up in the cloud, it creates a platform to be able to invest in AI/ML, and be able to drive intelligent alerting and even automation. And that's really what's needed because as the environments get more distributed and complex, you need to have that those operational efficiencies that automation, that intelligence to help them. >> How has remote work and hybrid work affected sort of network, spending priorities. Obviously when the pandemic hit you had to accommodate end points. And I always have this theory okay, when people come back to the office and I know it's going to be a different world but, the HQ probably needs some love as well. So has that been a tailwind for the industry? >> Absolutely, that's what we're seeing now. I think when the pandemic first hit, everyone said I've got to ramp up my VPNs. I've got to scale out my concentrators. I've got to add more firewalls in my data center. And then after a while, when they realized this was here to stay, they said, okay we just created that hub-and-spoke network that we just got rid of with SD-WAN. So what are the better solutions we can implement? So now you're seeing them not only implement better networking solutions for the remote workers. But reimagining what the campus looks like. Because it's not going to be ever 100% full or maybe it will, but how, for how many times a year will it be 100% full? So you've got to go from 80% cubes and 20% conference and collaboration areas, to 80% collaboration areas and 20% cubes. So we're seeing a lot of transition taking place in the campus environment as organizations are deploying newer technologies like Wi-Fi 6E. That have greater bandwidth to allow for those collaboration apps to run in those collaboration areas. Instead of just having the single wired conference room for video. Everyone's got to be able to run their video, voice and video collaboration apps. >> So how do you look at the landscape now? Again, you can't talk about networking without talking about Cisco. I think they, up there, I saw you and Zeus as talking about out, Cisco's quarter and other networking topics. Their long term guidance is for 60% growth for a company that size that's really outstanding. I mean, Cisco's, really has always been an execution machine of course. And it's a new era now under Chuck. There are more than ankle biters. If you look at Arista's doing pretty well there's guys like Extreme, there's others that are out there but nobody seemed to be able to unseat Cisco. What's happening in the landscape? >> I mean, that's a great question. Cisco's just been around for so long and been so big for so long. And you have to also keep in mind that with Cisco it's not just about the technology, but the fact from a if you think about it from a cultural standpoint these are workers who have been trained on Cisco since, some of them since high school. The educational component that Cisco has done has groomed generations of network technologists. So when they come into the market, they're fully familiar and used to Cisco. Plus they make a really good product and they've got products that cover everything. They cover the whole gambit. So they're still able to maintain their share. They're able to grow. They're able to move. They've made a shift last year. They announced in last spring that they were going to focus more on end-to-end. So instead of just having, hey, here's a point product, here's a point product. Here's a point product. Let's think about it in its entirety. Let's deliver a complete end-to-end solution solve bigger problems for customers, which obviously makes it much harder to remove when you're just trying to remove a piece of that single problem. But the other competitors are also having good years. And I think also the rising tide floats all boats. And so because of this distributed nature, the importance of the network, everyone is doing that. Plus obviously this has to be said, the supply chain issues where people are ordering ahead as well. But organizations, you look at Arista, they've gone from just being a data center company to expanding all the way down to the campus edge, wireless, right there creating an end-to-end environment Extreme did the same thing. They went out and made a lot of acquisitions. They pulled them all together, integrated. They're all moving to this cloud based end-to-end network management. Arista has been on a tear, bringing in a lot of, not only innovative technology, but innovative technologists. So if you look at some of the organizations they bought. I keep calling it Route 128, it's 128 Technologies. So sorry folks I live in Massachusetts. It's always been Route 128. >> You Remember when don't we. 128 Technology's Mist was their big. Mist was their, Mist was kind of like their VMware. VMware to EMC was Mist was to Juniper. And so we call it the Mistification of Juniper where every organization, every company they bring in they're rolling under that and this the AI engine. So they're bringing in 128 Technologies into that. They've got their own, their own stuff under that, their wired switches. So they've got this unified wired and wireless and WAN assurance now that they have. They've been gaining a lot of traction with that. And again, for the things we were talking about because it's far more distributed and complex. You need to have, It's not like people are getting replaced. It's not like, hey, we're leveraging this automation so that we can get rid of network teams. It's because it's getting so much more complex just to have the same number of people manage that more complex environment. We need those intelligence solutions. >> So I want to ask you about network and multi-cloud. And so it's kind of tongue in cheek because we coined this term super cloud. And so what we meant by that, so here's the premise. And I wonder you could give us your perspective. Multi-cloud, I've said many times is I think largely a symptom of multi-vendor I run in this, I run in AWS or, Azure, I've done the work to understand their primitives and or Google, whatever it is. But it's not like an abstraction layer that's floating above all those but now you're starting to see that. In fact, it re:Invent in November. The ecosystem it seemed like was everybody was focused on developing what we call these super clouds. And again, it's tongue in cheek, this abstraction layer it hides the underlying complexity of the primitives and the APIs adds incremental value on top of that. So there's a company Prosimo, which Steve Herrod, is invested in and others Praveen Akkiraju, whom I'm sure you know from Viptela. Aviatrix is another company that's sort of, Steve Malaney has come on theCUBE and talked about what they're doing. Like yeah, that's super cloud. It seems like it's something new and different than just multi-cloud which is kind of connecting in to different clouds. It's that value on top. What do you think about that? And what does that mean for networking? >> That's a really good point because we are starting to see the inception of organizations going beyond having multiple cloud providers and looking at starting to deploy applications across multiple clouds. It's still really early. The vast majority of organizations are still, I use this application for this cloud and this application for that cloud. But that's the next frontier. That's what they're trying to solve is how do I create this basically cloud fabric and make it as simple as possible. And again, all the things we've been talking about how do I, instead of you having to learn Amazon, Google, Azure networking technology, learn mine, I'll take care of it, but I'll abstract all that complexity from you and make it so much simpler to be able to connect to these interconnect, and connect to them in a seamless fashion. And so that's what they're really trying to do is they're. And the hard part is it takes really sophisticated solutions to remove that high level of complexity and make it simple for an organization to do that. So yeah, absolutely. >> If I had more time I'd make it shorter as somebody who writes a lot. And I think you're right. I think it is future. It's not definitely not here today, but the other thing is it ties into digital transformation. We used this again, throw that buzzword around but, companies not just tech company, I mean everybody's becoming like a tech company, but organizations, financial services companies, healthcare they're building their own clouds on top of the hyperscalers who spend $100 billion a year on CapEx. And that seems to be a trend that I think is going to take legs over this next decade. Just like in the previous decade everybody was thinking, okay, we're going to SaaSify our business softwares (indistinct) the world. And now it's software and cloud services are the way in which I'm going to create customer experiences. >> Correct, yeah. It's why should I go out and make an investment in technology when the technology's already there? And I can rent it for when I need it scale it as I need it and, and do all of that. I agree with that. I think that's something that we're seeing. The interesting part though is that when we look at our data points, probably let than 40% of the applications and workloads are in the cloud today. So there's still a role that the corporate data center plays. We are seeing over time. They expect that to progress and transition but I think there's still always going to be maybe a quarter of the workloads and applications may never leave. Depending on how they're built, et cetera. So there's always going to be that distributed environment where you've got workloads in the private data centers, workloads in multiple public clouds. And also, the big thing too is don't forget about the edge. We're seeing a lot more edge activity take place as organizations recognize, as they deploy more IOT devices, and want to get realtime business insights they've got to deploy the compute there. >> Well, and that's something that I wanted to ask you about, but going back to what you just said, which is, I agree with you. So that suggests to me, Bob that we're just kind of, with cloud just entering the steep part of the S curve. Amazon's headed toward $100 billion, run rate business. Maybe they probably won't get there this year but they will next year. We're entering that steep growth phase, really could be. It's incredible. But I wanted to ask you about the edge. Because you're right is we got to move compute to the edge, ARM is going to dominate. I would think, the edge. They already are with our smartphones. How do you see the cloud guys participating in the edge? Whether it was Andy Jassy, or now Adam Selipsky or anybody at Amazon. They have the dogma of in the fullness of time all workloads are going to be in the cloud. So they either have to change their definition of cloud. Or they're wrong. So what's your thought on that? >> I think it really starts coming down to what's your definition of edge. And so, much like when the cloud technologies first came about and you had all the shadow IT. Everyone running off, and everyone thought oh this is all great, until you realized you had to operationalize it and you had to pull the brakes. Stop doing that. We're going to make sure IT operations. >> Call the CIO up. Exactly, finding out where stuff was by going through accounting and seeing credit card charges. For the edge what we've seen I think is maybe organizations really saying I've got to deploy my servers in my own site. Right at that edge in order to get the lowest possible latency. And so what I think we're starting to see is organizations looking at that and saying, okay well I'm in a metro and I've got 25 locations in a metro. And I've deployed technology to every single one of those sites. Do I need it there? Or can I put it in an Equinix facility that's less than five milliseconds from all 25 sites? So I think there's starting to be this pragmatic approach of looking at let's look at the edge, let's take a look at what type of latencies. What is our definition of real time. When do we actually need the data and so forth? What kind of connectivity do we have? And then from there figure out how we go about connecting it. And so for companies like AWS and Google and Azure a lot of them there's local zones and things like that. They're deploying them in those colos because they don't have data centers in every metro but they can leverage an Equinix. They can leverage someone else's hardware that's there to deploy their software stack within that location. So I think that's something that we're starting to see more and more of as the edge. And obviously the association with the telcos as well. They've got a great footprint. If you want to get close to the edge with their colos Their home offices and things like that and whatnot. Their ability to move the compute closer to the edge, the base stations of the antennas and things like that, are certainly significant. And that's why you're seeing the wavelengths and things like that, programs like that. >> So I was going to close, but there some really interesting topics you just brought up. Call it whatever you going to call it near edge, far edge or deep edge. And you mentioned real time. Yeah. So for those Equinix data centers, I don't need, true real time. But for Tesla, I need real time. I need real time inference at the edge probably using a bunch of ARM cores and I can't go back to any cloud. How do you look at that? Both, I would think big markets. Do you have a sense as to, is one bigger than the other? Are they both just enormous or we don't even know yet. >> I'm not sure that we know yet. I think certainly, it's riding the tail of the IOTs. So the more sensors, the more things that are deployed the more that, that data businesses realize they can leverage that data to make real time business insights to drive either better experiences. And if you're in retail. So location based services and real time offer management it doesn't do any good to offer a coupon for something that you've, that's 40 yards behind you. That that's past, like you said with the cars there's, I've seen some studies recently. They say, well, based on the latency, if the command is to stop and you're at one millisecond, it stops within four inches. If you are at 50 milliseconds, it stops 10 feet later. That's a big difference. And I don't know if those numbers are right but you get the idea about the impact, what the real time impact is of. >> Margin is not huge. >> Exactly, so that's where organizations, I think first and foremost need to take a pragmatic approach to determine what is real time for us. What's our definition of it. And then that can lead them to where do I need to place this compute technology? And then that goes to how do I then connect to it? So for the Teslas and so forth, obviously you're going to want 5G connections if possible. Ultra low latency and not just any 5G. The good stuff, the millimeter bandwidth stuff that that's the ultra low latency. >> So let's wrap. So, what's going on in your research world obviously the big, big acquisition tech target they seem to be investing in ESG. You guys are really growing and hiring. That's awesome. Any research that you're working on? >> Yeah, there's a couple of couple of projects we have going on right now. We're wrapping up a four part distributed cloud research series. So we did it on distributed cloud infrastructure. Applications, observability. And now this last one is on the edge. Coincidentally. So we're working on that. We've got some new network modernization research that we've published. And we're going to be looking, from a networking perspective looking at end-to-end network modernization which will be coming out soon. >> Awesome, Bob, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. I really would love to have you back and chat about some of those things. Observability hot space. God, I wish we had more time. >> Absolutely, appreciate it, thanks. >> And thank you for watching this CUBE conversation. This is Dave Vellante and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome everyone to this CUBE coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. We have a lot going on at this year's re:Invent with over 100 guests on the program, and I'm excited to welcome two of those guests here with me right now. We are joined by Ralph Munsen, the Chief Information Officer at Warner Music Group and Atif Khan, the CTO of Alkira and founder of Alkira as well. Gentlemen, welcome to the program. >> Thank you so much, Lisa. So glad to be here with you. >> Good to be here. >> Yeah. Good old fashioned Zoom is become our best friend in the last 22 months or so I'm losing count. Atif, I'd like to start with you. I know Alkira has been on the key before, but it's been a while and you guys are a relatively young company. Give the audience an overview of Alkira and what it is that you deliver. >> Absolutely, Lisa. So we started back in may of 2018, and the Cloud networking space, multicloud networking. And we came out of stealth mode back in April of 2020, and launched the company. In fact, one of our first events coming out of stealth mode was a Cuban interview back in April of 2020. So here at Telecare, what we are doing is we are building a Cloud platform, which allows customers to build a common network across multiple Clouds with built-in network and security services, with the policy and management layer on top full end to end visibility and governance capabilities. And all of this is delivered as a service and consumed as a service as well. And I'm very glad to be here with Ralph, who is from Warner Music Group and is one of our marquee customers. So I'll let Ralph introduce himself, and tell us a bit more about Alkira and WMTS Cloud journey. >> That sounds great. Ralph, why don't you start by giving the audience? I'm sure everyone knows Warner Music Group, but in case there's anyone out there that might not. Give us a little bit of a background. >> Yeah, so the Warner Music Group has been around since 1950 and 1940 even it had its roots at Hollywood and out of Warner Brothers Pictures, Today, say global company in 79 countries we operated. If the 100 employees and we have two major divisions, we have our era recorded music division, which has the labels people commonly turn to Atlantic records, Warner brothers records, and so forth. And then we have our publishing division, which is more a chapel, which is where our songwriters live. And of course we have some singer songwriters that are on both sides of our business. But now currently people may know our artists. We have ed Sheeran, Bruno Mars, Coldplay, Cardi B, Blake Shelton and I could go on and on. But exciting, great year, we're having one of our best years ever. And I'm so glad to be here and partnering with an Alkira. >> Excellent. I love all of those artists that you mentioned. Fantastic. So let's talk a little bit now Ralph about the backstory. Talk to me about the IT infrastructure at Warner Music Group, what you had there and some of the challenges that you had that you came to Alkira to solve. >> Yeah, well initially when I took over about five years ago now, we were very much a data center based business with traditional networking and IT functions. Additionally with our foreign affiliates, IT was sort of decentralized in the sense that a lot of the networking and data center components were left to regions. And so while we operated globally, we didn't really operate globally, at Warner among our affiliates. So one of the challenges was how do we get out of the data center? Cloud was new. One of the big things that were coming with big data, which is absolutely right for moving, going straight to the Cloud, especially if you don't have anything on-prem and how do we rationalize all of these different locations and conduct all the M&A work we've been doing? So it was quite a challenge, really. At the end, we wanted to have one view of the network, and Alkira. I looked at many a company and Alkira seemed the best to provide that to us. So. >> Well, talk to me a little bit more about why Alkira, because as Atif was saying, they're very young. What came out of stealth mode during the pandemic Warner Music Group, being around since the 40s and 50s, the legacy institution, a great brand. What made you take a risk on such an early stage startup? >> Quite frankly, there was nothing in the space (chuckles) at the time you loved, there were companies that had components of it, of what Alkira does, which is basically network orchestration allowing us to use existing components. And nobody has the whole package, especially incorporating security. So, we figured why not take, take a chance? There's no, it won't hurt you no harm. And if anything is successful, it will give us a great ability to manage our network, much more efficiently taking things that took days down to hours and being able to do it much more efficiently with much fewer staff, as opposed to hiring a lot more because when you orchestrate all the components that are underneath, obviously it requires more bodies, more resources. >> Right. That efficiency and cost optimization is key there. Atif I have to ask you, talk to me about, this is only a few years ago, the gap in the market that you and your brothers saw a few years ago, when you founded the company, because as Rob was saying, there was nobody else in the market at the time that could do what you're doing. >> Yeah, absolutely. So Lisa, as you know, myself and Amir, we were also a part of the founding team of Viptela, which was the SD-WAN Company. So back in the day when we did SD-WAN, the requirement was to connect sites together. So if you go back like 5, 10, 5, 7, 10 years ago, networking was done to connect sites together, which could be remote sites, data centers, sites to data centers, all of that together. But fast forward, a few more years with the adoption of Cloud, requirements changed from the networking perspective. So now your network is not just connecting sites together, but most of the traffic now is from sites or users, which could be sitting anywhere. If you look at, what's going on? in the pandemic people are working from all across the globe. They are not just sitting in campuses or sites. So traffic patterns are from sites or users mostly to the Cloud or SaaS applications. So now networks also need to evolve and they need to be built inside the Cloud rather than from outside or connecting into the Cloud. So Cloud access is one capability, but building a network inside the Cloud becomes a requirement. And secondly, now it's not just only about connectivity because security becomes even more important because your security perimeter is changing as well. So securing all these Cloud networks becomes very, very complicated. And now as Ralph can tell you, majority of the enterprises have a multicloud strategy and each Cloud is done differently. So the moment you bring in multiple Clouds, multiple regions across the globe, it becomes so complicated for enterprises to build and manage. They need something, or a platform which makes it easy, gives them one way of doing networking, building a common network across whether you're connecting multiple Clouds or Clouds to your on-prem locations or Clouds to internet or sites to internet. So that's where we saw this gap and we decided to build Alkira to tackle this problem. >> Got it. So Rob, let's talk now about what you've implemented as a team was saying we live in this, in this work from anywhere hybrid multicloud world. Talk to us about Warner, what you implemented and maybe a little bit about your multicloud strategy, if you've got one. >> Ralph: Yeah. So over the last five years, Warner has migrated entirely into Cloud. And to this point before it's multicloud, we're mainly in AWS, but we do have some pleasure and some Google Cloud. And with that, I was telling Atif and Amir. It was interesting and they built a Cloud on site. They totally forgot about the networking aspect. So (laughs), you have ease of use for services and servers inside (indistinct) cloud, but networking is not really present, not to mention when it was built out, it wasn't made to go to competing Clouds. So most companies are facing this problem. How do you treat these environments as a single holistic environment? How do you turn things up, turn things down? How do you secure it, When every single one is different habits, selling unique ways of doing things? So that really was, how we ended up looking for an out Alkira, because I just kept looking at the costs and the profit print grow and grow and grow. And the complexity to a (indistinct) before is growing exponential. One change in one thing would lead to two changes to another. If you add another Cloud or you add another point on the network, you've got exponential growth and complexity, complexity, you have to deal with. So one stop shop. (chuckles) >> One stop shop and reducing that complexity. Talk to me about reducing complexity, and what you're accomplishing there. Especially, in the last year and a half as things have been so dynamic, shall we say? (chuckles) >> Yeah, well, I will say this. It was turnkey for the most part. It took a matter of months as opposed to years, because out of the box, there was a lot of integrations with the major network of players. So as of right now, you can buy firewalls, routing, VPC, things like this, they all exist, but they're not orchestrated together. Right? And then you have policies and security, again not orchestrating a different set of tools. So it really only took us two to three months to get it up and running, I acts, I just had a conversation (chuckles) with them when we were going to finish. So I think we'll be finishing this up completely in January and sometime. So, I was pretty sure. >> LISA: That's fantastic. So really, >> Yeah. >> Sorry Relaph fast time to market there with getting things implemented. Talk to me about from a business outcome perspective, you are CIO, what are some of the outcomes? That this technology is enabling you to deliver back to the business? >> Yeah, it really, the number 1, 2 big ones come to mind. One being able to provide them a secure enterprise. I know when there is the change it's made uniforms for our network without, some of older something's being forgotten about. So that's number one, security is big. You can imagine a company like more ever marquee brands, all brands, any company of marquee brands are targets today. That's number one. Number two is our time to market for eminent. So when we buy a company the time it takes us to get them to be completely part of Warner and therefore start realizing the business case and benefits sort of reasonably bought. Bought the company to begin with. So, we're buying a lot more and we're turning them up and turning those business cases up faster. But usually those cases would say things like six months to a year to integrate with us, and then we can unlock the set of benefits. Now it's more like, two to three months and you start to be able to lock the benefits sooner. And of course, those are different than a case by case basis, but that's. >> Sure, but significantly faster there, you're looking at a two to three X multiplier there, as you talked about. >> Ralph: right. >> Now, you mentioned multicloud Ralph. So here we are at re:Invent. I imagine part of your AWS as part of your Cloud infrastructure and they're a technology partner of ALkira's. >> Ralph: Correct. Yeah. So AWS is actually our biggest Cloud provider of the three, and yeah (laugh) they're their partner without cure. So Good. >> And Atif then you, Alkira's technology partner of AWS, correct? >> Yeas. Alkira is a technology partner of AWS, we are also available on AWS marketplace. So customers can consume, AlKira's platform from AWS marketplace as well. >> But given the fact that so many businesses in every industry are multicloud, I assume that you work with all the Cloud vendors. Atif Yeah? >> Absolutely. So our platform runs inside of the Cloud and runs in AWS is a Cloud as well. And from there it connects to multiple Clouds. So if customers need to connect to Azure or AWS from there or Oracle Cloud or any other Cloud, for that matter, they can connect from our platform and our platform is it scales horizontally. So as customers needs scale, it scales as well. And one of the key advantages is, it's consumed as a service. So there's no software to download or hardware to run for or to acquire for any of the customers. It's a software solution and it's consumed as a service. >> Got it. Ralph one on one more question for you before we wrap things up here, want to get your recommendations for IT Executives, CEOs, who might be in a similar situation to you, whether or not they are with a legacy organization, what are some of your recommendations that you say you need to be looking at a, B and C? >> Yeah, I would primarily say really need to be looking at some of these newer technologies that can help speed up, people, especially in this case to transition to the Cloud and that planning ahead of time, especially goal-setting, I find to be it's any of these places, providers is absolutely Paramount, because you can, if you don't make your own (indistinct) take that step forward and you can end up with shelter. So I make sure that it's very important that when you commit to that, you commit fully, you plan it out and you make sure you actually use it to get the benefits. One of my tech key is software. So. (chuckles) (Lisa Laughing) I'm a bit of it so. >> Well, you've been there and It costs a lot of money and it doesn't do any good. It doesn't move the business forward. And in this day and age, there is a competitor right behind the rear view mirror who might be smaller, more nimble, and more agile, who can take your place easily. >> Absolutely. >> If the organization isn't willing to take the risks and commit, as you said, Atif last question over for you, where are the customers go to learn more? I know you are at re:Invent your booth 1628, but what do you recommend folks go attendees of the event, as well as just other prospects to go to learn more about what you guys are delivering for companies like Warner Music Group. >> So if you're at re:Invent, please stop by our booth. And one of our Cloud specialists will give you a demo as well. So it's a very quick demo and you'll see, how we are reinventing networking for the Cloud narrow. You can also go to our website and you'll find a lot of information on our website. You can request a demo there as well. So look forward to seeing most of you at our booth and those who are not attending in person, please go visit our website. >> Lisa: Reinventing Networking. I like your play on words. They are Atif very appropriate. Gentlemen, thank you for joining me today talking about Alkira, Warner Music Group, what you guys are doing together and how this new early stage technology is really quite transformative. We appreciate your insights. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> For Ralph Munsen and Atif Khan, I'm Lisa Martin, and you're watching theCUBE's continuous coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. Thanks for watching. (soft techno music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome everyone to this CUBE coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. We have a lot going on at this year's re:Invent with over 100 guests on the program, and I'm excited to welcome two of those guests here with me right now. We are joined by Ralph Munsen, the Chief Information Officer at Warner Music Group and Atif Khan, the CTO of Alkira and founder of Alkira as well. Gentlemen, welcome to the program. >> Thank you so much, Lisa. So glad to be here with you. >> Good to be here. >> Yeah. Good old fashioned Zoom is become our best friend in the last 22 months or so I'm losing count. Atif, I'd like to start with you. I know Alkira has been on the key before, but it's been a while and you guys are a relatively young company. Give the audience an overview of Alkira and what it is that you deliver. >> Absolutely, Lisa. So we started back in may of 2018, and the Cloud networking space, multicloud networking. And we came out of stealth mode back in April of 2020, and launched the company. In fact, one of our first events coming out of stealth mode was a Cuban interview back in April of 2020. So here at Telecare, what we are doing is we are building a Cloud platform, which allows customers to build a common network across multiple Clouds with built-in network and security services, with the policy and management layer on top full end to end visibility and governance capabilities. And all of this is delivered as a service and consumed as a service as well. And I'm very glad to be here with Ralph, who is from Warner Music Group and is one of our marquee customers. So I'll let Ralph introduce himself, and tell us a bit more about Alkira and WMTS Cloud journey. >> That sounds great. Ralph, why don't you start by giving the audience? I'm sure everyone knows Warner Music Group, but in case there's anyone out there that might not. Give us a little bit of a background. >> Yeah, so the Warner Music Group has been around since 1950 and 1940 even it had its roots at Hollywood and out of Warner Brothers Pictures, Today, say global company in 79 countries we operated. If the 100 employees and we have two major divisions, we have our era recorded music division, which has the labels people commonly turn to Atlantic records, Warner brothers records, and so forth. And then we have our publishing division, which is more a chapel, which is where our songwriters live. And of course we have some singer songwriters that are on both sides of our business. But now currently people may know our artists. We have ed Sheeran, Bruno Mars, Coldplay, Cardi B, Blake Shelton and I could go on and on. But exciting, great year, we're having one of our best years ever. And I'm so glad to be here and partnering with an Alkira. >> Excellent. I love all of those artists that you mentioned. Fantastic. So let's talk a little bit now Ralph about the backstory. Talk to me about the IT infrastructure at Warner Music Group, what you had there and some of the challenges that you had that you came to Alkira to solve. >> Yeah, well initially when I took over about five years ago now, we were very much a data center based business with traditional networking and IT functions. Additionally with our foreign affiliates, IT was sort of decentralized in the sense that a lot of the networking and data center components were left to regions. And so while we operated globally, we didn't really operate globally, at Warner among our affiliates. So one of the challenges was how do we get out of the data center? Cloud was new. One of the big things that were coming with big data, which is absolutely right for moving, going straight to the Cloud, especially if you don't have anything on-prem and how do we rationalize all of these different locations and conduct all the M&A work we've been doing? So it was quite a challenge, really. At the end, we wanted to have one view of the network, and now Alkira. I looked at many of companies and I'm curious in the best to provide that to us. So. >> Well, talk to me a little bit more about why Alkira, because as Atif was saying, they're very young. What came out of stealth mode during the pandemic Warner Music Group, being around since the 40s and 50s, the legacy institution, a great brand. What made you take a risk on such an early stage startup? >> Quite frankly, there was nothing in the space (chuckles) at the time you loved, there were companies that had components of it, of what Alkira does, which is basically network orchestration allowing us to use existing components. And nobody has the whole package, especially incorporating security. So, we figured why not take, take a chance? There's no, it won't hurt you no harm. And if anything is successful, it will give us a great ability to manage our network, much more efficiently taking things that took days down to hours and being able to do it much more efficiently with much fewer staff, as opposed to hiring a lot more because when you orchestrate all the components that are underneath, obviously it requires more bodies, more resources. >> Right. That efficiency and cost optimization is key there. Atif I have to ask you, talk to me about, this is only a few years ago, the gap in the market that you and your brothers saw a few years ago, when you founded the company, because as Rob was saying, there was nobody else in the market at the time that could do what you're doing. >> Yeah, absolutely. So Lisa, as you know, myself and Amir, we were also a part of the founding team of Viptela, which was the SD-WAN Company. So back in the day when we did SD-WAN, the requirement was to connect sites together. So if you go back like 5, 10, 5, 7, 10 years ago, networking was done to connect sites together, which could be remote sites, data centers, sites to data centers, all of that together. But fast forward, a few more years with the adoption of Cloud, requirements changed from the networking perspective. So now your network is not just connecting sites together, but most of the traffic now is from sites or users, which could be sitting anywhere. If you look at, what's going on? in the pandemic people are working from all across the globe. They are not just sitting in campuses or sites. So traffic patterns are from sites or users mostly to the Cloud or SaaS applications. So now networks also need to evolve and they need to be built inside the Cloud rather than from outside or connecting into the Cloud. So Cloud access is one capability, but building a network inside the Cloud becomes a requirement. And secondly, now it's not just only about connectivity because security becomes even more important because your security perimeter is changing as well. So securing all these Cloud networks becomes very, very complicated. And now as Ralph can tell you, majority of the enterprises have a multicloud strategy and each Cloud is done differently. So the moment you bring in multiple Clouds, multiple regions across the globe, it becomes so complicated for enterprises to build and manage. They need something, or a platform which makes it easy, gives them one way of doing networking, building a common network across whether you're connecting multiple Clouds or Clouds to your on-prem locations or Clouds to internet or sites to internet. So that's where we saw this gap and we decided to build Alkira to tackle this problem. >> Got it. So Rob, let's talk now about what you've implemented as a team was saying we live in this, in this work from anywhere hybrid multicloud world. Talk to us about Warner, what you implemented and maybe a little bit about your multicloud strategy, if you've got one. >> Ralph: Yeah. So over the last five years, Warner has migrated entirely into Cloud. And to this point before it's multicloud, we're mainly in AWS, but we do have some pleasure and some Google Cloud. And with that, I was telling Atif and Amir. It was interesting and they built a Cloud on site. They totally forgot about the networking aspect. So (laughs), you have ease of use for services and servers inside (indistinct) cloud, but networking is not really present, not to mention when it was built out, it wasn't made to go to competing Clouds. So most companies are facing this problem. How do you treat these environments as a single holistic environment? How do you turn things up, turn things down? How do you secure it, When every single one is different habits, selling unique ways of doing things? So that really was, how we ended up looking for an out Alkira, because I just kept looking at the costs and the profit print grow and grow and grow. And the complexity to a (indistinct) before is growing exponential. One change in one thing would lead to two changes to another. If you add another Cloud or you add another point on the network, you've got exponential growth and complexity, complexity, you have to deal with. So one stop shop. (chuckles) >> One stop shop and reducing that complexity. Talk to me about reducing complexity, and what you're accomplishing there. Especially, in the last year and a half as things have been so dynamic, shall we say? (chuckles) >> Yeah, well, I will say this. It was turnkey for the most part. It took a matter of months as opposed to years, because out of the box, there was a lot of integrations with the major network of players. So as of right now, you can buy firewalls, routing, VPC, things like this, they all exist, but they're not orchestrated together. Right? And then you have policies and security, again not orchestrating a different set of tools. So it really only took us two to three months to get it up and running, I acts, I just had a conversation (chuckles) with them when we were going to finish. So I think we'll be finishing this up completely in January and sometime. So, I was pretty sure. >> LISA: That's fantastic. So really, >> Yeah. >> Sorry Relaph fast time to market there with getting things implemented. Talk to me about from a business outcome perspective, you are CIO, what are some of the outcomes? That this technology is enabling you to deliver back to the business? >> Yeah, it really, the number 1, 2 big ones come to mind. One being able to provide them a secure enterprise. I know when there is the change it's made uniforms for our network without, some of older something's being forgotten about. So that's number one, security is big. You can imagine a company like more ever marquee brands, all brands, any company of marquee brands are targets today. That's number one. Number two is our time to market for eminent. So when we buy a company the time it takes us to get them to be completely part of Warner and therefore start realizing the business case and benefits sort of reasonably bought. Bought the company to begin with. So, we're buying a lot more and we're turning them up and turning those business cases up faster. But usually those cases would say things like six months to a year to integrate with us, and then we can unlock the set of benefits. Now it's more like, two to three months and you start to be able to lock the benefits sooner. And of course, those are different than a case by case basis, but that's. >> Sure, but significantly faster there, you're looking at a two to three X multiplier there, as you talked about. >> Ralph: right. >> Now, you mentioned multicloud Ralph. So here we are at re:Invent. I imagine part of your AWS as part of your Cloud infrastructure and they're a technology partner of ALkira's. >> Ralph: Correct. Yeah. So AWS is actually our biggest Cloud provider of the three, and yeah (laugh) they're their partner without cure. So Good. >> And Atif then you, Alkira's technology partner of AWS, correct? >> Yeas. Alkira is a technology partner of AWS, we are also available on AWS marketplace. So customers can consume, AlKira's platform from AWS marketplace as well. >> But given the fact that so many businesses in every industry are multicloud, I assume that you work with all the Cloud vendors. Atif Yeah? >> Absolutely. So our platform runs inside of the Cloud and runs in AWS is a Cloud as well. And from there it connects to multiple Clouds. So if customers need to connect to Azure or AWS from there or Oracle Cloud or any other Cloud, for that matter, they can connect from our platform and our platform is it scales horizontally. So as customers needs scale, it scales as well. And one of the key advantages is, it's consumed as a service. So there's no software to download or hardware to run for or to acquire for any of the customers. It's a software solution and it's consumed as a service. >> Got it. Ralph one on one more question for you before we wrap things up here, want to get your recommendations for IT Executives, CEOs, who might be in a similar situation to you, whether or not they are with a legacy organization, what are some of your recommendations that you say you need to be looking at a, B and C? >> Yeah, I would primarily say really need to be looking at some of these newer technologies that can help speed up, people, especially in this case to transition to the Cloud and that planning ahead of time, especially goal-setting, I find to be it's any of these places, providers is absolutely Paramount, because you can, if you don't make your own (indistinct) take that step forward and you can end up with shelter. So I make sure that it's very important that when you commit to that, you commit fully, you plan it out and you make sure you actually use it to get the benefits. One of my tech key is software. So. (chuckles) (Lisa Laughing) I'm a bit of it so. >> Well, you've been there and It costs a lot of money and it doesn't do any good. It doesn't move the business forward. And in this day and age, there is a competitor right behind the rear view mirror who might be smaller, more nimble, and more agile, who can take your place easily. >> Absolutely. >> If the organization isn't willing to take the risks and commit, as you said, Atif last question over for you, where are the customers go to learn more? I know you are at re:Invent your booth 1628, but what do you recommend folks go attendees of the event, as well as just other prospects to go to learn more about what you guys are delivering for companies like Warner Music Group. >> So if you're at re:Invent, please stop by our booth. And one of our Cloud specialists will give you a demo as well. So it's a very quick demo and you'll see, how we are reinventing networking for the Cloud narrow. You can also go to our website and you'll find a lot of information on our website. You can request a demo there as well. So look forward to seeing most of you at our booth and those who are not attending in person, please go visit our website. >> Lisa: Reinventing Networking. I like your play on words. They are Atif very appropriate. Gentlemen, thank you for joining me today talking about Alkira, Warner Music Group, what you guys are doing together and how this new early stage technology is really quite transformative. We appreciate your insights. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> For Ralph Munsen and Atif Khan, I'm Lisa Martin, and you're watching theCUBE's continuous coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. Thanks for watching. (soft techno music)

>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE Conversation. >> Hello, everybody, this is Dave Vellante, and welcome to this breaking analysis. I'm here with Erik Bradley, who's the managing director of ETR and runs their VENN program. Erik, good to see you. >> Very nice to see you too, Dave. Hope you're doing well. >> Yeah, I'm doing okay, hanging in there. You know, you guys in New York are fighting the battle, looks like we're making some progress here, so all the best to you and your family and the wider community. I'm really excited to have you on today because I had the pleasure of sitting in on a CIO/CISO panel last week and we're going to explain sort of what that's all about but one of the things that ETR does that I really like is they go deeper with anecdotal information, and it's almost like in depth interviews in these round tables. So they compliment their quarterly surveys and their other drilldown surveys with other anecdotal information from people in their communities, so it's a tried and true survey practice that adds some color to the data set. So guys, if you'd bring up the agenda, I want to share with the audience what we're going to talk about today. So, we'll talk a little bit about, you know, we just did intros. I wanted to ask Erik what ETR VENN is and then we will go through some of the guests, but if we go back to Erik, explain a little bit about VENN and the whole process, and how you guys do that? >> Yes, sure we should hire you for marketing, you just did a great job actually describing that, but about three years ago, what we decided was, ETR does an amazing job collecting the data. It can tell you what's happening, who it's happening to, and when it's happening, but it can't always tell you why it's happening. So leveraging a lot of my background in 20 plus years in journalism and the institution of Wall Street research, we decided to take the ETR community, the people that actually take the surveys and start doing interviews with them, and start doing events with them. And in enable to doing that, we're basically just trying to complement the survey findings and the data. So what we always say is that ETR will give you the quantitative answer and VENN will give you the qualitative answer. >> Now guys, let's bring up the agenda slide again, let's take a look at the folks that participated in the round table, now, for ETR's clients, they actually know the names and the titles and well the company that these guys work for. We've anonymized it for the public, but you had a CIO of a global auto supplier, a CISO of a diversified holdings firm who actually had some hospitality exposure, but also some government contract manufacturing exposure, a chief architect of a software ISV, and a VP and CISO of a global hospitality resort chain. So you had three out of the four, Erik were really in industries that are getting hit hard, obviously you know the software company, may be a little bit better but, maybe you could add some color to that? >> Well actually the software company unfortunately was getting hit hard as well because they're a software ISV that actually plays into the manufacturing space as well so this particular panel of CIOs and CISOs were actually in a very hard hit industries and are going to make sure we do two more follow ups with different industry verticals to make sure we're getting a little bit of a wider berth and collect all of that information in a better way. But coming back to this particular call the whole reason we did this and as you know you spoke to my colleague and friend Sagar Kadakia who is the director of research for ETR. And we were nimble enough to actually change our survey while it was in the field to start collecting data on what the real time impact was on the COVID-19 pandemic. We were able to take that information, extrapolate it and then say, okay, let's start reaching out to these people and dig deeper, find out why it's happening and even more so is it permanent? And which vendors are going to win and which vendors might lose from it? So that was the whole reason we set up a series of calls, we've only conducted one so far, we have another one this coming Tuesday as well with four entirely new panelists that are going to be from different industry verticals 'cause as you astutely pointed out, these verticals were very hard hit and not all of them are as hard as others, so it's important to get a wider cross-section. >> So guys, let's take a look at some of the budget impacts, the anecdotal sort of evidence that we gathered here, so let me just scan through it and then Erik, I'll ask you to comment. So, I mean like Erik said, some hard hit industries. All major projects, anything sort of next-gen have been essentially shelved, that was the ISV and then another one we cut at least 70% of the big projects moving forward, he mentioned ServiceNow actually called him out, but ServiceNow is a SaaS company, probably you know weather the storm here, but he did say, we've put that on hold. The best comment you know As-a-Service has Saved our Saas, (laughs) that one's great. And then we're going to get into some of the networking commentary, some really interesting things about how to support the work from home, you know we're kind of shifting from a hardened top into users, remote workers and then a lot of commentary on security, so you know that's sort of a high level scan and there's just so much information here, Erik but maybe you could sort of summarize on some of those, that commentary? >> Yeah, we should definitely dig in to each of those sectors a little more, but to summarize what we're seeing here was the real winners and losers are clear. Not everyone was prepared to have a work from home strategy. Not everyone was prepared to send their workers out, their VPN didn't have enough bandwidth so there was a real quick uptake in spending, but longer term we're starting to see that these changes will become more permeant. So the real winners and losers right now, we're going to see on the losers side traditional networking, the MPLS networking is in a lot of trouble according to all the data and the commentary that we're seeing, it's expensive, it's difficult to ramp up bandwidth as quickly as you need and it doesn't support remote. So we're seeing that lose out and the winners there are in the SD-WAN space, it's going to be impossible to ignore that going forward and some of our CIO and even CISO panelists said that change will be permanent. Also we're seeing at the same time, what they were calling a run SaaS and cloud, now we know these trends obviously were already happening but they're being exacerbated, they're happening even more quickly and more strong and I don't see that changing any time soon. That of course is at the expense of data centers, whether it be your own or hosted. Which has huge ramifications on on-prem hardware, even the firewall providers. So what we're seeing here is obviously we know things are going to be impacted by this situation, we didn't necessarily expect all of our community members and IT decision makers to talk about them being possibly permanent, so that on a high level was something that was extremely interesting. And the last one that I would bring up is that as we make this shift towards working from home, towards remote access, you also have to align yourself with the security that can support that. And one of the things that we're seeing in our data side on ETR, is a widening bifurcation between the next-gen security vendors and the more traditional security or the legacy security players, that bifurcation just keeps getting wider and wider and this situation could be the last straw. >> So I want to follow up on a couple of those things, you talked about sort of the network shift and toward SD-WAN, what people have described to me is that they've got a hardened top, it's a hierarchal network, it's very well understood, and it's safe right, and now all of a sudden you got all these remote workers and so you've got to completely sort of rethink your whole network architecture, the other thing I want to grill into is your cloud commentary. There's a comment that I saw Erik, that really stood out, one of the folks said, I would like to see the data centers be completely deleted, if you will or closed down, I mean I think we're going to see you know, a lot more of this, obviously. Not only from the standpoint of, and you heard this a lot the kind of pay by the drink, but just generally getting rid of all that sort of so called non-differentiated heavy lifting as we often hear about. >> That is a extreme comment, I don't think everyone feels that way, but yes, the comment was made and we've heard that comment from other people as you and I both know the larger the enterprise the harder that is to go completely SaaS, but yeah, when a situation like this happens and seeing the inflexibility of their on-prem infrastructure, yes it becomes something that really has to be addressed and it can become a permanent change, I was also shocked about that comment. That gentleman also stated that his executives outside of the IT area, the CEO, the CFO had never ever, ever wanted to discuss cloud, they did not want to discuss work from home, they did not want to discuss remote access. He said that conversation has changed immediately and to the credit of the actual IT companies out there, the technology companies, they're doing everything they can with this opportunity to make that happen. >> Yeah and so, right, I mean the whole work from home conversation that's to your point earlier, Erik, big chunks of COVID, you know the post COVID world are going to remain permanent, guys bring up the SaaS slide if you will, the SaaS commentary "As-a-Service-Saved our SaaS" as the wittiest quip award according to ETR, you know but you had, it was very interesting to hear folks, in fact I think somebody even called out, hey you know we expected Oracle to be auditing us but they're actually being very supportive as is IBM, SalesForce was an interesting comment Erik, one of the folks said they would share accounts you know on-prem but when they all do the work from home they had to actually buy some more. You also got Cisco with big props, Microsoft was called out, a lot of organizations actually allowing them to defer payments, so the SaaS vendors actually got very high marks, didn't they? >> They really did and even I wrote that summary and it was difficult to write that about Oracle because we all know that they're infamous for auditing their own customers in 2009, right after we we came out of the financial crisis. They have notoriously been a bad act, I don't know if they found religion and they decided to be nice to their customers, but every single person mentioned them as one of the vendors that was actually helping. That was very shocking. And then we all know that when bad situations happen people become opportunistic and right now it's really seeming that the SaaS vendors understand that they need a longterm relationship with these customers and they're being altruistic instead which is really nice to see. >> Yeah, I think the, I think anybody with a cloud realizes that hey, we have an opportunity here, the lifetime value of that customer whereas maybe in 2009 when Oracle didn't have a cloud they had to get people in a headlock to try to preserve their you know income statement. If we, let's go to the networking drilldown guys, that next slide, because Fortinet, some of the things that we've been reporting on is the sort of divergence in valuations between Fortinet and Palo Alto before this whole thing hit. Fortinet has done a really good job with it's cloud offerings, Palo Alto struggled a little bit with trying to figure out the sales compensation, is maybe a little bit behind, although both companies got strong props and I've talked to a number of customers and Palo Alto's going to be in the mix, but Fortinet from a cloud standpoint seems to be doing quite well, obviously networking, you know Cisco is the big gorilla there, but so and we also got call outs from guys like Trend Micro, which was interesting from some of the folks so your thoughts on this Erik? >> Yeah, I'll start in the networking side because this is something that I really, I've dug into quite amount in not only this panel but a lot of interviews and it really seems as if as networking refresh starts to come up and it's coming up with a lot of large importers, when your network refresh comes up, people are going to do an RFP for SD-WAN. They are sick and tired of paying MPLS network vendors and they really want to look at something else. That was even prior to this situation. Now what we're hearing is this is a permanent change, I particularly had one person say, I wanted to find this quote real quickly if I can, but basically they were basically saying that from a permanency perspective, the freedom from MPLS will reduce our network spend by over half, while more than doubling or tripling our bandwidth. You can't ignore that, you're going to save me money and triple my bandwidth. And hey, by the way, my refresh is due, it's something that's coming and it's going to happen. And yes you mentioned a few, right, there's Viptela, there's VeloCloud, there's some big players like Cisco. But Palo Alto just acquired CloudGenix in the midst of all of this. They just went and got an SD-WAN player themselves and they just keep acquiring a portfolio to shift from their on-prem to next-gen. It's going to take some time, 'cause 70% plus of their revenue is still on-prem hardware, but I do believe that their portfolio that they're creating is the way the world is moving and that's just one comment on the traditional networking versus the next-gen SD-WAN. >> And the customers have indicated you know it's not easy just to get off of their MPLS networks. I mean it takes time, it's like slowly pulling off the bandaid, but like many things COVID-19 is sort of accelerating that, we haven't talked about digital transformation, that came up. As a maybe more strategic initiative, but one that you know very clearly has legs. >> You know David, it's very simple, you just said it, people, when things are going well and they're comfortable they don't change and that's the same for an enterprise or a company, hey everything's great, our revenue's fine, why would we do this? We'll worry about that next year. Then something like this happens and you realize wow, we've been dragging our feet. That digital transformation that we've been talking about and we've been a little bit slow to accept, we need to accept it, we need to move now. And yes, it was another one of the major themes and it sounds silly for researchers like you and I, because we know this is a theme, we know cloud adoption is there, we know digital transformation is there, but there are still a lot of people that haven't moved as quickly as they should and this is going to be that final catalyst to get them there without a doubt. Quickly on your point of Fortinet, I was actually very impressed with the commentary that came from that because Fortinet is sometimes one of those names that you think of that maybe plays in a smaller pool or isn't as big as some of the 800 pound gorillas out there, but in other interviews besides this I heard the phrase point of 40 everything, so through our R&D and through acquisitions, Fortinet has really expanded their portfolio. And right now is their time to shine because when you have smaller satellite you know offices and branches that you need to connect, they're really, really good at it. And you don't always want to call a Palo Alto and pay that price, when you have smaller branch offices and I actually I was glad you brought up Fortinet because it's not a name that we get to herald that often and it was deserving from this panel. >> Yeah and you know companies that can secure gateways, secure endpoints are obviously going to have momentum, Zscaler came up, you know I think that's and I tell you looking at I've done a couple of breaking analysis on security, and Fortinet has been strong in two dimensions, you know ETR as our audience is I think getting to know, we really look at two key metrics, one is a net score which is a measure of spending momentum and the other is market share, which is a measure of pervasiveness, and companies like Fortinet in security, you know show up on both of those dimensions so it's notable. >> Yes, it certainly is, it is and I'm glad you brought up Zscaler too, very recently by strong request we did a very in depth research on Zscaler versus Palo Alto Prisma access. And they were very interested and this was before all this happened. You know does Palo Alto have a chance of catching up, taking share from Zscaler? And I've had the pleasure myself personally hosting Jay, the CEO of Zscaler at an event in New York City. And I have nothing but incredible respect for the company. But what we found out through this research is Zscaler at the moment their technology is still ahead according to their answers there is no doubt, however there doesn't seem to be any real secret sauce that will stop Palo Alto from catching up. So we do believe that parody of a feature set will shrink over time and then it'll come down to Palo Alto who obviously has a wider end-user interface. Now, what's happening today might change that because if I had to make a decision right now for my company on secure web gateway, I'm still probably going to got to Zscaler, it's the name. If I had to choose that in a year from now, Palo Alto might have had a better chance, so in this panel as you brought up, Zscaler was mentioned numerous times as just the wave of the future along with CASB Brokers, right, whether you're talking about a Netskope or Forcepoint, all those people that also play in the CASB space, to secure your access, zero trust is no longer a marketing hype term, it is real and it is becoming more real by the week. >> And so I want to kind of end on one of the other comments that really struck me because we're constantly talking about okay, do you go with a portfolio of a suite of services or do you go with best of breed, what about startups? Are startups more risky in a crisis like this? And one of your panelists, I just loved his comment, he said, one of the things that I've always done, he said, you always hear about the guy, oh we're going to to the garden, we're going to check out the magic water, we'll pick out three guys in the upper right hand corner and test them out, he says, one of the things that I've always liked to do, is I'll pick two from the upper right, and I'll take one from the lower left, one of the emerging techs and I'll give them a shot, they won't win every time but then he called out FireEye as one of the organizations that he found early that gave them competitive advantage. >> Right. >> Love that comment. >> It's a great comment and honestly if you're in charge of procurement, you'd be stupid not to do that. Not only just to see what the technology is, but now I can play you off the big guys because I have negotiation leverage and I can say, oh well I can always just take their contract. So it's silly not to do it from a business perspective, but from a technology perspective what we kept hearing from these people with the smaller vendors and my partner Peter Steube, my colleague and I we did the host together, we asked this question, really believing that the financial insecurity of the moment in the times would make smaller vendors not viable. We heard the exact opposite, what our panelists said was no, I'd be happy to work with a smaller vendor right now because they're going to give me pricing flexibility, they're going to work with me right now, I don't need to pay them upfront because we're seeing a permanent shift from CAPEX to OPEX and the smaller vendors are willing to work with me and I can pay them later. So we were actually surprised to hear that and glad to hear it because to connect to your other point, the other person who was talking about security in a platform approach versus best of breed, he said listen, platform approaches you're already with the vendor you can bundle a little bit, but the problem is if you're just going to acquire a new technology every time there's a new threat, the bad guys are just going to switch the threat and you can't acquire indefinitely so therefore best of breed with security will always beat platform and that's kind of a message to Palo Alto and Cisco in my opinion because they seem to be the ones fighting that out, even Microsoft now trying to say that they're a platform approach in security. >> Wow and it says to me the security business is going to as we predicted is going to stay fragmented because you're still going to get that best of breed, you know just like cloud is going to be fragmented and it's you know multiple vendors, ever since I've been in this business people are trying to consolidate the number of vendors but technology moves so quickly, it gives competitive advantage, Erik, awesome thank you so much for joining us, I'm looking forward to next Tuesday with the next VENN and love to have you back and talk about it any time, you're a great guest, thanks so much. >> Certainly! I'll do my best to get a better AV connection the next time guys, I apologize for that, but it was great talking to you guys. >> Hey, we're all learning you know, so thank you everybody for watching, this Dave Vellante for theCUBE and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto, in Boston connecting with alt leaders all around the world, This is a CUBE conversation. >> Hello everybody, this is Dave Vellante and welcome to this Breaking Analysis. I'm here with Erik Bradley, who's the managing director of ETR and runs their VEN program. Erik good to see you. >> Very nice to see you too Dave. Hope you're doing well. >> Yeah, I'm doing okay hanging in there. You know, you guys in New York are fighting the battle. Looks like we're making some progress here so, you know, all the best, you and your family and the wider community. I'm really excited to have you on today because I had the pleasure of sitting in on a CIO/ CISO panel last week. And we're going to explain sort of what that's all about, but one of the things ETR does that I really like is they go deeper with anecdotal information and it's almost like in-depth interviews in these round tables. So they compliment their quarterly surveys, and their other drill down surveys, with other anecdotal information for people in their community. So it's a tried and true survey practice that adds some color to the dataset. So guys if you bring up the agenda, I want to share with the audience what we're going to talk about today. So, we'll talk a little bit about, you know we just did intros, I want to ask Erik, what ETR VENN is and then we'll go through some of the guests, but if we go back to Erik, explain a little bit about VENN and the whole process and how you guys do that. >> Yeah sure, we should hire you for marketing. You just did a great job, actually, describing that, but about three years ago what we decided was, ETR does an amazing job collecting the data. It can tell you what's happening, who it's happening to and when it's happening. But it can't always tell you why it's happened. So leveraging a lot of my background in twenty-plus years in journalism and institutional Wall Street research, we decided to take the ETR community, the people that actually take the surveys, and start doing interviews with them and start doing events with them. And enable to doing that, we're basically just trying to compliment the survey findings and the data. So what we always say is that ETR will always give you the quantitative answer and VENN will give you the qualitative answer. >> Now guys, let's bring up the agenda slide again, let's take a look at the folks that participated in the round table. Now, for ETR's clients, they actually know the names and the titles and well the company that these guys work for. We've anonymized it for the public. But you had a CIO of a Global Auto Supplier, a CISO of a Diversified Holdings Firm, who actually had some hospitality exposure but also some government contract manufacturing exposure. Chief Architect of a Software ISV and a VP and CISO of a Global Hospitality Resort Chain. So you had three out of the for, Erik, were really in industries that are getting hit hard. Obviously the software company maybe a little bit better. But maybe you can add some color to that. >> Well actually the software company, unfortunately, was getting hit hard as well because they're a software ISV that actually plays into the manufacturing space as well. So, this particular panel of CIOs and CISOs were actually in a very hard hit industries. And are going to make sure we do two more follow-ups with different industry verticals to make sure we're getting a little bit of a wider berth and collect all of that information in a better way. But coming back to this particular call, the whole reason we did this, and as you know, you spoke to my colleague and friend, Sagar Kadakia, who is the Director of Research for ETR, and we were nimble enough to actually change our survey while it was in the field, to start collecting data on what the real-time impact was on the COVID-19 pandemic. We were able to take that information, extrapolate it, and then say okay let's start reading out to these people and dig deeper. Find out why it's happening and even more so, is it permanent? And which vendors are going to win and which vendors might lose from it. So that was the whole reason we set up the series of calls. We've only conducted on so far. We have another one this coming Tuesday as well with four entirely new panelists that are going to be from different industry verticals because, as you astutely pointed out, these verticals were very hard hit and not all of them are as hard as others. So it's important to get a wider cross-section. >> So, guys let's take a look at some of the budget impacts the anecdotal evidence that we gathered here. So let me just scan through it and then Erik, I'll ask you to comment. So, you know, like Erik said, some hard hit industries. All major projects, anything sort of next-generation, have been essentially shelved. That was the ISV. And then another one, we cut at least 70% of the big projects moving forward. He mentioned ServiceNow actually calls them out, but the ServiceNow is a SaaS company they'll probably, you know, weather the storm here. But he did say we've put that on hold. The best comment, you know, "As-a-service has Saved our SaaS." (Erik laughs) That one's great. And then we're going to get into some of the networking commentary. Some really interesting things about how to support the work from home. You know, kind of shifting from a hardened top into remote workers. And then a lot of commentary on security. So, you know, that's sort of a high level scan and there's just so much information here Erik, but maybe you could sort of summarize on some of that commentary. >> Yeah, we should definitely dig into each of those sectors a little more, but to summarize what we're seeing here was the real winners and losers are clear. Not everyone was prepared to have a work from home strategy. Not everyone was prepared to send their workers out. Their VPN wasn't, they didn't have enough bandwidth. So there was a real quick uptick in spending, but longer term we're starting to see that these changes will become more permanent. So the real winners and losers right now, we're going to see on the loser's side traditional networking. The MPLS networking is in a lot of trouble according to all the data and the commentary that we're seeing. It's expensive, it's difficult to ramp to up bandwidth as quickly as you need and it doesn't support remote. So we're seeing that lose out and the winners there are in the SD-WAN space. It's going to be impossible to ignore that going forward and some of our CIO and CISO panelists said that change will be permanent. Also, we're seeing, at the same time, what they were calling a "SaaS and Cloud". Now, we know these trends obviously were already happening but they're being exacerbated. They're happening even more quickly and more strong. And I don't see that changing any time soon. That, of course, is at the expense of network, I'm sorry, data centers. Whether it be your own or hosted. Which has huge ramifications on on-prem hardware. Even the firewall providers. So what we're seeing here is obviously we know things are going to be impacted by this situation. We didn't necessarily expect all of our community members and IT decision-makers to talk about them being possibly permanent. So that on a high level was something that was extremely interesting. And the last one that I would bring up is that as we make this shift towards working from home, towards remote access, you also have to align yourself with the security that can support that. And one of the things that we're seeing in our data side on ETR, is a widening bifurcation between the next-generation security vendors and the more traditional security or the legacy security players. That bifurcation just keeps getting wider and wider and this situation could be the last straw. >> So I want to follow up on a couple of those things. You're talking about sort of the network shift you know, towards the SD-WAN. What people have described to me is that they got a, you know, a hardened top. It's a hierarchical network. It's very well understood and it's safe, right? And now all of a sudden you got all those remote workers and so you've got to completely soft of rethink your whole network architecture. The other thing I want to drill into is your Cloud commentary. There's a comment that I saw, Erik, that really stood out. One of the folks said, "I would like to see the data centers "be completely deleted, if you will, or closed down." I think we're going to see, you know, a lot more of this obviously. Not only from the standpoint of, and you heard this a lot, the kind of paid by the drink. But just generally getting rid of all that sort of so-called non-differentiated heavy-lifting as we often hear about. >> That is a extreme comment. I don't think everyone feels that way. But, yes, the comment was made and we've heard the comment from other people. As you and I both know, the larger the enterprise the harder that is to go completely SaaS. But yeah, when a situation like this has and see the inflexibility of their on-prem infrastructure, yes it becomes something that really has to be addressed and it can become a permanent change. I was also shocked about that comment. That gentleman also stated that his executives outside of the ITs area, the CEO, the CFO, had never ever, ever wanted to discuss Cloud. They did not want to discuss work from home. They did not want to discuss remote access. He said that conversation has changed immediately and to the credit of the actual IT companies out there, the technology companies, they're doing everything they can with this opportunity to make that happen. >> Yeah, and so you're right the whole work from home conversation. To your point earlier, Erik, big chunks of COVID, the post-COVID world are going to remain permanent. Guys bring up the SaaS slide if you will. The SaaS commentary, "As-a-Service Saved our SaaS." "The wittiest quip award" going to the ETR. You know, but you had, what's very interesting to hear folks, in fact I think somebody even called out, "Hey," you know, "we expected Oracle to," you know, "be auditing us but they're actually being supportive "as is IBM." Salesforce was an interesting common, Erik. One of the folks said they would share accounts on-prem, but when they all do the work from home they had to actually buy some more. You also got Cisco with big props. Microsoft was called out. A lot of organizations actually allowing them to defer payments. So the SaaS vendors actually got very high marks didn't they? >> They really did and even I wrote that summary and it was difficult to write that about Oracle because we all know that they're infamous for auditing their own customers in 2009 right after we came out of financial crisis. They have notoriously been a-- I don't know if they found religion and they decided to be nice to their customers, but every-single person mentioned them as one of the vendors that was actually helping. That was very shocking. And we all know that when bad situations happen people become opportunistic. And right now it's really seeming that the SaaS vendors understand that they need a longterm relationship with these customers and they're being altruistic instead. Which is really nice. >> Yeah I think that anybody with a Cloud realizes that hey, we have an opportunity here that the lifetime value of that customer, whereas maybe in 2009 when Oracle didn't have a Cloud, they had to get people in a headlock to try to persevere their, you know, income statement. Let's go to the networking drill down guys, that next slide because Fortinet, some of the things we've been reporting on is the sort of divergence in evaluations between Fortinet and Palo Alto before this whole thing hit, Fortinet has done a really good job with its Cloud offerings. Palo Alto struggles a little bit with trying to figure out the sales compensation, is maybe a little bit behind. Although both companies got strong props and I've talked to a number of customers, Palo Alto is going to be in the mix. Fortinet, from a Cloud standpoint, seems to be doing quite well? Obviously networking, Cisco is the big gorilla there. But we also got call outs from guys like Trend Micro which was interesting, from some of the folks. So, your thoughts on this Erik. >> Yeah, I'll start on the networking side because this is something that I've really, I've dug into quite amount, in not only this panel, but a lot of interviews and it really seems as if as networking refresh starts to come up, and it's coming up with a lot of large enterprises, when your network refresh comes up people are going to do an RFP for SD-WAN. They are sick and tired of paying MPLS network vendors and they really want to look at something else. That was even prior to this situation. Now what we're hearing is this is a permanent change. I particularly had one person say, I wanted to find this quote real quickly if I can, but basically they basically saying that, "From a permanency perspective, the freedom from MTLS "will reduce our networks spend by over half "while more than doubling or tripling our bandwidth." You can't ignore that. You're going to save me money and triple my bandwidth, and hey by the way, my refresh is due. It's something that's coming and it's going to happen. And yes, you mentioned the few right? There's Viptela, there's Velocloud, there's some big players like Cisco. The Palo Alto just acquired CloudGenix in the midst of all of this. They just went and got an SD-WAN player themselves. And they just keep acquiring a portfolio to shift from their on-prem to next-generation. It's going to take some time, because 70% plus of their revenues is still on-prem hardware, but I do believe that their portfolio that they're creating is the way the world is moving. And that's just one comment on the traditional networking versus the next-generation SD-WAN. >> And the customers have indicated, you know it's not easy just to get off of their MPLS network. I mean it takes time, it's like slowly pulling of the bandaid. But, like many things, COVID-19 is sort of accelerating that. We haven't talked about digital transformation. That came up as a maybe more strategic initiative. But one that very clearly has legs. >> You know, David, it's very simple. You just said it. People, when things are going well and they're comfortable, they don't change. And that's the same for an enterpriser company. Hey, everything's great, our revenue's fine. Why would we do this? We'll worry about that next year. Then something like this happens and you realize wow, we've been dragging our feet. That digital transformation that we've been talking about, and we've been a little bit slow to accept, we need to accept it, we need to move now. And yes, it was another one of the major themes and it sounds silly for researchers like you and I because we know this is a theme. We know Clouded option is there, we know digital transformation is there. But, there are still a lot of people that haven't moved as quickly as they should and this is going to be that final catalyst to get them there, without a doubt. Quickly on your point of Fortinet, I was actually very impressed with the commentary that came from that because Fortinet is sometimes one of those names that you think of that maybe plays in a smaller pool or isn't as big as some of the 800 pound gorillas out there. But in other other interviews besides this I've heard the phrase coined of "Forti-everything". So through RND and through acquisition, Fortinet has really expanded the portfolio and right now is their time to shine because when you have smaller satellite, you know, offices and branches that you need to connect, they're really, really good at it. And you don't always want to call a Palo Alto and pay that price when you have smaller branch offices. And I actually, I was glad you brought up Fortinet because it's not a name that we get to herald that often and it was deserving from this panel. >> Yeah and, you know, companies that can secure gateways, secure endpoints, obviously going to have momentum. Zscaler came up, you know I think that, and I'll tell ya, looking at, I've done a couple of breaking analysis on security and Fortinet has been strong in two dimensions. You know ETR is, as our audience is I think getting to know. We really look at two key metrics. One is net score, which is a measure of spending momentum, and the other is market share, which is a measure of pervasiveness. And companies like Fortinet, in security, show up on both of those dimensions so it's notable. >> Yes, it certainly is, it is. And I'm glad you brought up Zscaler too. Very recently by client request, we did a very in-depth research on Zscaler versus Palo Alto Prisma Access and they were very interested. This was before all this happened, you know. Does Palo Alto have a chance of catching up, taking share from Zscaler. And I've had the pleasure, myself, personally hosting Jay the CEO of Zscaler at an event in New York City. And I have nothing but incredible respect for the company. But what we found out through this research is Zscaler, at the moment, their technology is still ahead, according to their answers. There's no doubt. However, there doesn't seem to be any real secret sauce that will stop Palo Alto from catching up. So we do believe the parody of feature set will shrink over time. And then it will come down to Palo Alto obviously has a wider and user base. Now, what's happening today might change that. Because if I had to make a decision right now, for my company on secure web gateway, I'm still probably going to go to Zscaler. It's the name. If I had to choose that in a year from now, Palo Alto might have had a better chance. So in this panel, as you brought up, Zscaler was mentioned numerous times as just the wave of the future. Along with CASB brokers right? Whether you're talking about a Netskoper or Forcepointer. All those people that also play in CASB space to secure your access. Zero trust is no longer a marketing-hype term. It is real and it is becoming more real by the week. >> And so, I want to kind of end on one of the other comments that really struck me because we're constantly talking about okay, do you go with a portfolio of a suite of services or do you go with best of breed? What about startups? Are startups more risky in a crisis like this? And one of your panelists, I just love this comment, he said, "One of things that I've always done," he said, "You always hear about the guy, "oh we're going to go to the gardener, we're going to "check out the magic water, we'll pick out three guys "in the upper right hand corner and test them out." He says, "One of the things I always like to do, "I'll pick two from the upper right "and I'll take one from the lower left." One of the emerging, text, "And I'll give em a shot." It won't win every time, but then he called out FireEye as one of the organizations that he found early that gave them competitive advantage. >> Right. >> Love that comment. >> It's a great comment. And honestly if you're in charge of procurement you'd be stupid not to do that. Not only just to see what the technology is, but now I can play you off the big guys because I have negotiating leverage and I can say oh, well I could always just take their contract. So it's silly not to do it from a business perspective. But from technology perspective, what we kept hearing from these people with the smaller vendors. My partner Peter Steube, my colleague and I, we did the host together, we asked this question really believing that the financial insecurity of the moment and the times would make smaller vendors not viable. We heard the exact opposite. What our panelists said was, "No, I'd be happy "to work with a smaller vendor right now "because they're going to give me pricing flexibility, "they're going to work with me right now. "I don't need to pay them upfront "because we're seeing a permanent shift from CapEx to OpEX, "and the smaller vendors are willing to work with me and I can pay them later." So we were actually surprised to hear that and glad to hear it because, to connect to your other point, the other person who was talking about security and the platform approach versus best of breed, he said "Listen, platform approaches you're already "with the vendor, you can bundle a little bit. "But the problem is, if you're just going to acquire "a new technology every time there's a new threat, "the bad guys are just going to switch the threat. "And you can't acquire indefinitely. "So therefore, best of breed with security "will always beat platform." And that's kind of a message to Palo Alto and Cisco, in my opinion, because they seem to be the ones fighting that out. Even Microsoft now, trying to say they're a platform approach in security. >> Well and this says to me the security business, as we predicted, is going to stay fragmented because you're still going to get that best of breed. You know, just like Cloud is going to be fragmented and it's, you know, multiple vendors. Ever since I've been in this business people are trying to consolidate the number of vendors, but technology moves so quickly, it gives competitive advantage. Erik, awesome! Thank you so much for joining us. I'm looking forward to next Tuesday with the next vendor and love to have you back and talk about it anytime. You're a great guest, thanks so much. >> Certainly, I'll do my best to get a better AV connection the next time guys, I apologize for that. But it was great talking to you tonight. >> Hey we're all learning, you know so, thank you everybody for watching, this is Dave Vellante for theCUBE and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

(gentle music) >> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE conversation. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman. And this is a special CUBE conversation. We've been talking a lot, of course for many years about the ascendancy of cloud. And today in 2020, multicloud is a big piece of the discussion. And we're really happy to help unveil coming out of stealth Alkira, which is helping the networking challenges when it comes to multicloud and I have the two co-founders, they are brothers. I have Amir, who is the CEO and Atif, who is the CTO, the Khan brothers, thank you so much for joining us, and congratulation on the launch of the company. >> Thank you Stu for having us on the Show. It's a pleasure to see you again. >> All right, so Amir, we've had you on the program. Your previous company that you've done was of course Viptela, the two of you have worked together at, I believe, five companies, a successful companies. Acquired the most recent one into Cisco. So, Amir, obviously, strong networking team, your brother, the CTO is going to talk to us about the engineering but give us just the story of Alkira, what you've been building and now ready to unveil to the world. >> Certainly, Stu, so when around 2018 timeframe, we started looking into the next big problem to solve in the industry, which was not only a substantial from the market size perspective, but also from the customers perspective was solving a major pain point. So when we started looking into the cloud customers and started talking to our customers, they were struggling from the cloud networking perspective, even in a single cloud, and it was a new environment for them and they had to understand all the nitty gritty details of each one of these clouds and when you go to multicloud environment, it becomes exponentially complicated to address not only connectivity, but how to deploy services like firewall and other services, including load balancers and IP address management, et cetera, and remote access. So we started digging deeper into this problem and started working with the customers and took a clean sheet of paper and came up with a very comprehensive approach to offering a solution which is as-a Service. This time, we are not shipping any hardware software it is just like any other SaaS application, you just come to our portal just drag and drop, literally draw out your network and click on provision. And come back after 40 minutes or so your whole global cloud infrastructure is up and running. >> All right, Atif your brother laid out a pretty broad vision there, any of us from the networking world, we know there's a lot of complexity there. And therefore it takes a lot of work, when I want to do things simply, as-a Service is a huge growth area bring us inside the engineering challenges that you and the team have been working on to build this solution. >> Certainly, Stu, so we've been working both Amir and myself in the networking industry for more than 25 years now. And the way we have worked and what we have believed in is that we need to solve customer problems. We never believe in doing a science project. So here also we started working with customers as we have always done in the past. We understood the customers pain points, the challenges they were facing, especially in this case and in cloud networking space, multicloud networking space, based on the user requirements, users, or the customers use cases, we started building our service. And here what we have built as a complete network as-a Service. It's a multicloud network as-a service, which not only provides connectivity to multiple clouds, but also addresses the needs for bringing in networking services, as well as security services, making sure that you have a full policy based infrastructure on top of it, you have deep visibility into the clouds as well as into on-premise end to end visibility, end to end monitoring, troubleshooting. And all of it is delivered to you as-a service. So that's what we have been doing here at Alkira. >> Excellent! So when we've looked at multicloud, of course, every cloud, they have some similar things, they have some different things. They all tend to do things a little bit differently. One of the secret sauces that have been talked about for the last few years is the SD-WAN space, like you had built with the tele to help really enable those environments. So Atif we've got a diagram here, which I think will help explain a little bit as to where out here and how it plugs into these different environments, walk us through a little bit what we're seeing here, and what you're actually doing at Alkira. >> So here we are building a global unified, multicloud network. It's consumed as a service. Think of it as consuming it just like you would consume any other SaaS, like our SaaS application. So you come to Alkira's portal, you register. And then there you go, and you start building your global multicloud unified network with integrated services. So here what you see is a Alkira's cloud services exchange which comprises of the cloud exchange points. You can bring these up these cloud exchange points up anywhere on the globe. You can decide like what networking services security services you need in these cloud exchange points, you can connect to multiple clouds. From there, you can bring your existing on-prem connectivity into the CXPs. All these CXPs have a full mesh of overlay, high speed, low latency connectivity among each other. So there is a full network which comes up between these CXPs. And the whole infrastructure scales with customers as our customers scale. So it's a horizontally scalable, very highly redundant and resilient infrastructure, which we had built. >> All right, so, Amir now that we understand the basics of the technology, you've got some strong investors including Sequoia, Kleiner Perkins, give us what is being announced that you're coming out of stealth, where are you with the product? How many employees you have? And where are you with the discussion of customer adoption. >> So Stu we are obviously, bringing this to the market, and we will be announcing it on April 15. It's available for the customers to consume our solution as a service on that day. So they are welcome to reach out to us and we'll be happy to help them. And as a matter of fact, just come to our website and register for the service. And yeah, I mean you rightly said that we have a superstar team of not only the venture capital companies, but also the board members representing those companies, the Bill Coffin and Mamun Ahmed, who the leading VCs are on the board of our company, including myself and Atif. >> All right, Amir I'd love to actually bring up the second slide that we have here. Walk us through you said the service, how do people get started? How do they understand, walk us through what they do. >> So the biggest challenge when we started looking into these problems, Stu was that it was very complicated. You had to piecemeal bring up instances in the cloud and stitch them together. And when you try to integrate the services, that was a different challenge for the customers. So we want to make sure that it was so simple and clean, that the customer didn't even have to think about any underlying construct on any of the clouds, they should not have to worry about learning each individual part from the networking perspective. So here's your portal, you just come, step one is come to our portal register. Step two is you start drawing your network based on your intent, what on-prem connectivity you want to bring into this service, what type of services you need, like a lot of firewalls and then what pilots you need to connect and everything happens seamlessly, from on-prem, prem through services into the cloud, across multiple clouds. It's a seamless service that we have created and with full analytics capabilities and full governance built in. >> All right, so Atif bring us into what this means for customers, how do they manage it? Is this the networking team? Is it the cloud architects? What API's are there? How does this fit into kind of what customers are doing today? And solve some of those challenges that we laid out earlier in the discussion. >> Yes, from the customer's perspective, as I said, it's completely delivered as a service. Customers come to our portal, they draw out the network, they select the services, they click on provision and the whole network comes up within minutes. So the main thing here is that from a customer's point of view, if they are connecting to different clouds, they don't need to understand any of the underlying specifics or underlying constructs of any of the cloud in order to bring up connectivity. So what we are doing here is we are abstracting the cloud chair. So we are building a virtual cloud network. So if you think of, if you compare with what we did in the previous life, we virtualized the WAN. So here what we are doing is we are virtualizing the cloud network, so underlying doesn't matter which cloud you sit on which cloud you need to connect to, which networking services, whether a cloud native services or whether you want to consume Alkira services, or we also support like customer bringing in third party services as well. So it's all offered from our platform all offered is service to the customer. Again, no expertise required in any of the underlying networking constructs of any of these clouds. >> Give us what we should be looking at from a technology roadmap from Alkira, through the rest of 2020. >> Good question, Stu. So as I mentioned earlier, our roadmap is dictated by customer requirements, so we prioritize what customers need from us. So we have come out with a scalable platform, we have come out with a marketplace for networking services in there. In the near term, we'll be expanding our marketplace with more services. We will be addressing more use cases and when I talk about use cases, I can give you some examples. Like there's, you not just only need connectivity into cloud, you might have different requirements from throughput perspective or bandwidth perspective or different services that you need to contend your cloud when you may have certain applications such as Internet facing application where you need like traffic coming in from the internet, inbound to those applications, you might need services like a load balancer, like an external load balancer in our services exchange. You might also need like a firewall, you might need traffic engineering, or sorry, service chaining capabilities where you chain service through multiple traffic through multiple of these services like a firewall and a load balancer. So we built a platform which gives you all those capabilities going forward, we will be adding more services more use cases to it. We have a long ways ahead of us and we will be putting a lot of effort in delivering a roadmap as we go. >> All right, so Amir your technical team definitely has their hands full and robust roadmap to work on. Give us the high level, what we should be looking for Alkira, for people that are out there, multicloud and networking tends to get talked a lot. There's many big companies and small ones. What will separate Alkira from the rest of the market today? And what should we be looking to see the company's progression through 2020? >> Yeah, thanks for asking that. Yeah, certainly. I mean, from the solution perspective, Atif said that it's so fundamentally important to have a very strong basis. And that's what we have done. We are bringing out a certain number of services and now we will continue to grow on that we'll create a big marketplace. We will continue to improve on which clouds we connect to and how and we will building our own services in certain cases as well. Now, building a technology is just one piece of it, we have to go out to market with a company that the customers can trust every single department in that company, whether it's sales or how they do business with us all the business back end pieces, after we sorted out and that's what we've been working with. And then go to market partners, that is very, very important, support is very important. So let me spend a little bit of time on go to market strategy. We have been working with the service providers so that we can extend our reach not only to the large customers, but also to mid-size customers across the globe. So you will see us in the future announcing major service provider, partnerships, as well as we've been working with large SIS, WAAS and system integration partners. And also we have taking a slightly different approach this time because it's a service. So we are going with telecom master agents, which have been working with the service providers, the cloud providers, the cable providers, as a channel, and they have a huge reach into the customer base. So we have a very comprehensive strategy not only from the go to market perspective and the technology perspective, but also how we are going to support our customers and continue to build our relationship to build a lasting company. >> Yeah, Amir super important point there. Absolutely, we've seen the maturation and change in the service providers, as today they are working with many of the public cloud providers and they're, as you said, the close touch point and a trusted partner for customers. All right, so before I let you go, you two are brothers, everybody in today's day and age is spending even more time with family but your situation you've worked together for a long time. What keeps bringing the two of you together, working together and talk about that bond? >> So I mean we're a very close knit family, we have four brothers and one sister, and obviously Atif and I have been the closest because we have been working together for the longest, we've at least work in five different companies together, our families traveled together, we have three daughters each, we live about five minutes, walk from each other. And we just have this bond where we not only have the family close, but also very close knit friends circle, which we both hang out with, and we obviously have common interests in the sports as well. We play squash and tennis and workout. So Atif if you want to take a stab at that also. >> Yeah, so we've always been very close. In fact, we've been together for the last like, ever since I can remember like even college days, we were roommates for some time also, we have our circle of friends, is the same old source. So, again, we are very close. And we worked well together so we complement each other's skills. And it's worked out in the past. Hopefully it will work out again. And I look forward to working with them for many, many more years to come. >> Amir and Atif thank you so much for sharing the coming out of stealth. After all, Alkira we definitely look forward to watching your progress and seeing how you're helping customers in this multicloud world. Thank you for joining us. >> Stu thank you so much. >> Thank you for having us. >> All right, I'm Stu Miniman. And thank you so much for watching this special CUBE conversation on theCUBE. (gentle music)

>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE Conversation. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and welcome to a special CUBE Conversation, talking to leaders around the globe. Happy to welcome to the program two guests, actually one is a CUBE alumni and the other one, I believe is the first time on the program, the Khan brothers, I have Amir and Atif. So gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. >> Oh, thank you for having us again Stu. >> Yeah, so Amir. >> Thank you for (mumbles). >> You know, you and your brother, you're coming out of stealth. Alkira is the company, you two have both worked together at many companies. We know you most recently from Viptela, where Amir you know, we'd spoken with you on the Cube, I believe right after that acquisition. >> Right. >> (mumbles) with another company back in the day also happened to sell to Cisco, but we know that, you know, networking is one of the, you know, toughest things in our industry. You know, everyone thinks that their environment is something challenging but you know, we know networking in the weeds, there's so many protocols and while networking as a whole doesn't change really fast, there have been a lot of waves of change happening, most recently, of course, Cloud having a major impact on what's happening to the networking world. Amir, let's start with you, you're the CEO, your brother, Atif is the CTO, you're both co-founders, give us a little bit of the background and the why of Alkira. >> Yeah, so after we sold Viptela, I was looking for the next idea and we talked to multiple customers and multiple service providers. A common theme that came across was the Cloud Networking, was complex and when it came to multiple clouds it became exponentially complex. It was not only learning multiple clouds but all the underlying constructs were different in each one of the clouds. So we decided that we need to take a look at a common solution, which provides one way of connecting to all clouds that exists out there, and provides common services like Firewall and then from the governance perspective, it becomes very challenging if you have very diverse environments. So we are bringing analytics, common way of monitoring and managing the networks on top of that. So it's a very comprehensive solution that the industry needed and they needed it at, as a service. So we dug deeper and came up with this idea, went to the VCs and got funded very quickly to solve the problem and very proud to say that we are the first ones in the industry, who are bringing computer networking as a service or multicloud environments to the market. >> All right, that's a big vision and definitely something that, you know, we hear from talking to customers, you know, absolutely multicloud, most of the people, they're trying to figure out exactly what that means to their customers, to their companies, as well as it is not simple today. Atif, I want to pull you in, you know, we've seen, you know, many, you know, groups of talented, you know, develop an engineer, developers and engineers, some, they travel in packs. So when you look at, you know, what Amir just talked about, the challenge in front of you, give our audience a little bit of the understanding of, you know, the history of what you've been working on, and is this, you know, a, you know, just turning the crank based on the latest and greatest technologies? Is it the coming together of some of the pieces that you've been thinking about for many years? You know, help us under the hood a little bit as to, you know, this problem and the talents and what you're moving forward with. >> Atif: (mumbles) Stu, (mumbles) that we, our approach has always been to work with our customers and understand the customers' real use cases as well as pain points. So for the last like many, many years, both Amir and myself and other team members, we've been working on large customer networks, whether those are service provider networks or whether those are enterprise networks, so we have a deep understanding of the challenges that they have faced over over time. So and now, as Amir mentioned, customers are transitioning to public clouds, they are transitioning to SaaS environments and there are a lot of challenges which they're running into. So we decided to take this challenge on and we brought together like the stellar team. We have people who joined us from Viptela as well as people from other large organizations, they've been working on, we have people from AWS, we have people from Azure, we have people from other large companies. So we have put together a great team. We are very well funded and as I mentioned, our approach has always been to work with customers, always understand their pain points and solve the real issues which they are having. So that's the approach we took and that's what we are doing here at Alkira. >> Yeah, so I've, Atif I want to dig down a little bit more, and actually we've got a slide I think, you'll talk to because we know in networking, a lot of the words sound the same, you know, is this an overlay? Amir though said that it's a service. What gets deployed? Where is it? What do the customers need to do? Where does this all live? So if you could explain this diagram here for our audience. >> Atif: So what they're building Stu is a service. And it's a Cloud Services Exchange, if you look at it, and what it is comprised of is these cloud exchange points. You can think of these as virtual pops or virtual portals. And you can decide which region in the world or on the globe you want the CXPs to be spun up. You come to our portal since it's consumed as a service, you decide like what needs to reside on the CXPs which networking services you need there, you can bring your own services or you can consume the Alkira services. And when I talk about services or when I say services, these can be security services, other networking services, such as load balancers, IPAM, DDI, whatnot. From these CXPs you can connect to multiple clouds from here without you as a enterprise, without you knowing, need to know anything about the underlying cloud providers networking constructs. So all you do is you give us the requirements, you say that you need to connect to this cloud, this is your requirement and we do it for you. So what basically what we are doing is we are virtualizing the cloud networks. It's a, so in the past, we virtualized WAN in our previous company in Viptela, if you look at it, it's virtualizing WAN over different types of transports. Here we are virtualizing cloud, it doesn't matter which public cloud you're you're sitting on, which public cloud you need to connect to, you have one service to consume, your one way of doing cloud networking. >> Great, I, that diagram definitely helped me a lot. Amir, let's talk, my understanding, you've got some customers, what are some of the early things that they're using this for? Is this you know, hybrid cloud going from their data center to a public cloud? We talk about multicloud, does that mean we're actually connecting services between some of the public clouds, help us understand what your customers are seeing and starting to use. >> It's a very interesting question Stu. We've been talking to multiple customers, as we said, and without doubt, every single customer that we are talking to has some sort of a multicloud strategy. And the reasons for them to get into multiple clouds could be either that there some teams are using some applications which are optimized for a particular cloud. One of the customers that we went to, they were using one cloud and then acquired a company because of which, you know, another cloud was brought into the environment. So all of a sudden they have a need to very quickly, you know, integrate those two environments. And then there are you know, with what's going on in the market today, people are going to remote access requirements, you know, people working from home, and they need to get onto the network very quickly and consume applications, which scale much better in the cloud. So there's a demand from that perspective, right, so and in some cases, one company becomes, let's say, Amazon becomes a competitor somewhere and people want to move to another cloud, that could be another alternative, right? So without fail, many people are, you know, getting into cloud environments and the primary reason that I'm hearing now that many more companies will move into the cloud is going to be regulatory issues, right? So people are starting to think about pushing all the financial companies, the healthcare companies to adopt multiple clouds, for redundancy, for high viability, et cetera. >> Yeah, you bring up a great point. One of the questions we've been asking for the last couple of years is, how is multi-cloud the same or different from what we used to see with multi-vendor? Atif, you know, I think back to, you go back, you know, 10, 15, 20 years ago and some of the M and A discussions that Amir was talking about, you know, I buy another company, "Oh, what are they doing for their network? "Well throw out their whole network and let's standardize "on the vendor of choice that we have because it's better "if I can go homogeneous." Well, it's not as easy to do that in the public cloud. So help us understand, you know, it's not as easy as they're saying, "Oh, all these clouds." They have API's, they all use similar type of abstractions and the like, you know, where does Alkira really help make things easy for customers when they're doing multicloud? >> Stu you know, every cloud is doing things differently when it comes to networking, so yeah, at the end of the day, functionality might be the same but how to achieve that, how to get that working, it's very different between each cloud. So now what we are seeing with these enterprises is that they have to build a deep understanding of each cloud before they can take on that cloud. And nowadays, cloud architects are in big demand, they don't come cheap, either. So you don't necessarily just need a person, a cloud architect with expertise in one cloud, you need like cloud architects with the expertise in multiple clouds. So we wanted to solve that problem, that's why we took this challenge on and we wanted to make it one way of working with all these clouds. So from a cloud architect's perspective, from an enterprise's perspective, why can't there be just one way of connecting to all these clouds? Why do I have to know the details of each cloud? As Amir said, each cloud brings it's the, its own value in different ways and there is a multi-cloud strategy out there. So either customers are in multiple clouds or they are looking at multiple clouds. So that's a big challenge right now and since what we are offering is as a service, it's a unified, global, multicloud network and again, we're virtualizing the cloud network. >> All right, Amir, you mentioned early on in the conversation that Alkira is well funded. You've got Sequoia and Kleiner Perkins as two of your investors. >> Amir: Yes. >> You know, definitely companies that look closely and understand the networking space. Help us understand the basics of the company, though. Coming out of stealth right now, is the product available? Where's it available? You know, where are you with customer and deployments? >> Certainly, we are making our product available on April 15th and many customers are trialing it right now, they're in the process of deploying it in production. These are across industries, healthcare, manufacturing, high tech, you know, financial industries. So customers span across multiple different verticals. In addition to that many service providers are working with us to offer this to extend their capabilities into the cloud. So many service providers have been struggling with that and this makes it very easy for them to complement their private connectivity solutions and extend their reach deeper into the cloud. So the industry is very excited right now and we are excited because this is an opportunity, you know, which the cloud migration has brought to the table from networking perspective and if we had thought about it 10 years ago, 20 years ago, it was just not possible. And now we have this capability in the clouds to offer elastic capabilities to not only provide connectivity but integrate the services like Firewalls, scale them up and down and provide proper governance. >> Yeah, you bring up such a big point there. I talked before about multi-vendor and today, you know, the network team, it's not just, "Oh, well, I touch all of the gear that I manage." As you said, it's the service providers and the public clouds, they need to span all those environments. We've definitely seen a huge shift in service providers and their relationships with the public cloud over the last five years or so. Atif, I guess that brings up a really important point here, who's going to be managing all this? When it comes to Alkira, is this the traditional network person if they've been, you know, doing LAN maybe a little bit of WAN are they going to be doing it as the cloud team? You know, where does this sit in the, you know, conversation and jostling of roles that we're seeing as organizations are more and more embracing public cloud? >> So Stu, it's still a networking solution. So what we are seeing working with our customers is that it's a cloud architect so we are very excited when they see our solution. Now, they can see that the network can show the same agility, which they have been very, they've been seeing with compute and storage and rest of the stuff moving into the cloud. So network was always like behind, it took a lot of effort, a lot of work to get the network to extend into clouds, meeting all the enterprise requirements. So now, network architects are excited because they, it's become very simple for them to move into the cloud or extend their private connectivity into the cloud. I'll give you an example, where we've been working with some large enterprises and they, many of them, they don't need to open up a manual or documentation to use our solution so our goal was always to make it so simple that anyone should be able to connect to a cloud without knowing anything about the networking constructs of a given cloud. So you just come in, you should just be able to give us the requirements that you need this much capacity, you need this much throughput, you need these services to front end the clouds, these are your security policies, which are global and you need like a multi-global transport or global network or multicloud network and you should be able to just bring it up. And you should not need like certifications in cloud networking or certifications in using tools to orchestrate cloud connectivity. So we have built a very scalable infrastructure, which allows the customers to get a service from us or use our service, which meets their requirements. >> All right, I'd like to ask both of you, you know, it's April 2020, you're coming out of stealth, you know, I'm sure the product has, you know, all the features that your customers are asking for today but give us a look as we go through that kind of the next six to 12 months. Amir first, from kind of the customer standpoint, Atif from the technology standpoint, what should people be looking at, both with your product, how you're working with partners and you know, really just multicloud networking landscape? >> Our focus is on mid to large sized enterprises and depending on which company you talk to their strategy varies to get into the cloud. Some are at a very early stage, others have moved a significant amount of workloads into the cloud already. The reality that we are seeing out there is that the hybrid environment is going to exist for a long, long time and that's why we have built a solution which seamlessly integrates their existing wide area networking infrastructure to bring traffic into our solution and then we tie them seamlessly to the cloud and provide integrated services and governance on top of that and they can define their own internal policies based on, you know, their enterprise needs. So that's what we are seeing right now and going into the future, I think the industry is going to continue to evolve, it's still early, the solutions will evolve quite a bit. We have a first mover advantage to provide networking as a service, and we are so excited to just continue to, you know, accelerate and help customers to migrate into the clouds as quickly as possible and provided with the highest resiliency and security. >> Atif. >> So, from a technology perspective, as I said, like we believe in working with the customers and solving their use cases. We are innovating at a very rapid pace and there are many many different use cases which we are working on. We have some of the use cases which we are, which we have delivered so far, where we are going out with a certain number of use cases and we'll be adding more use cases as we go, support for more use cases. And we support like all the major clouds right now. We will be adding more clouds to our offering. We offer Marketplace on our portal as well, so it's a cloud service with a built in marketplace of network services, we will be expanding that marketplace as well with more services. It's all based on the customer requirements and we prioritize our offerings based on the requirements. And there's a lot of work ahead of us also, it's just the beginning and as Amir said, we are very excited to solve all these problems and make our customers successful. >> Excellent, Atif, you're a good setup for Amir's last slide here. So we've got a slide here that, how do customers get started? Walk us through. >> Amir: Yeah, as Atif said, we've, our goal is to make it as simple as possible. You know, we live in a different world now where things change very, very quickly. So the customers just come to our portal, they register for our service, just like any other SaaS based service, they, you know, basically are taken to a canvas where they can draw out their infrastructure, draw out services, create policies within minutes, and then, you know, across the globe, and then click on the, on provision button and they can go and have coffee and the whole infrastructure comes up literally in less than an hour. As a matter of fact, in many cases, we have seen it come in, in around half an hour across the globe. This is the type of a solution or capability that the industry has never seen before in the industry, so we are very proud of bringing the solution to the market. >> Well, congratulations, both of you. A lot of work goes into bringing a company to launch. Before I let you go, I do have one last question. You two are brothers, you've worked together at a number of companies so, you know, give our audience, you know what it's like and you know, what keeps bringing you back to working together? >> Well, we are very close family, we've always, you know, studied together, worked together in many different companies, we live about five minutes away from each other, our kids hang out together, we travel together (chuckles). So, you know, it's kind of interesting. You know, we've always had a very, very close relationship. >> And this is our fifth company, I guess, where we are working together. As he said, like we've always worked together. We have a same circle of friends also so we were very close to each other so. >> Amir: Yeah (mumbles) what I'm thinking about Atif is one of the best squash players in the country. Nowadays, he doesn't get much time but he was ranked in the top three for a long time in amateurs in the country (laughs). >> Well, that is awesome. Well, hopefully, you know, you get a little bit of break, you know, once the company goes in stealth, I know a lot of work moving forward, but Amir and Atif. Congratulations, and thank you so much for joining us to announce coming out of stealth. >> Amir: Thank you Stu. >> Thank you so much, thank you for having us. >> Thank you, it's a pleasure to talk to you. All right, and we definitely look forward to tracking Alkira in the future as they move forward with adoption with their customers and their solution. I'm Stu Miniman and as always, thank you for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: From New York, it's theCUBE. Covering ESCAPE/19. >> Everyone, welcome to theCUBE coverage here in New York City for the ESCAPE Conference 19. This is the inaugural event for multicloud, I think it's the first industry event for, really talking about multicloud and the impact to enterprises and public cloud. My next guest is Steve Mullaney, President and CEO of Aviatrix, storied career in tech, been there done that, seen many waves of innovation. Nicira, Palo Alto Networks, and now Aviatrix. You retired for a while, welcome back! >> I did, yeah, five years, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, thanks for having me. >> It's nice to have you on because I think you have a good perspective on the multicloud because you've been in the industry since the 80s. We've both been broke in at the same time. And we've seen the waves. >> Oh, yeah. >> This wave is bigger than, I think, most of the other waves combined because it brings together so many things, infrastructure, software, cloud scale, and a new modern application environment. And then you complicate everything by throwing IoT out there, edges being pushed to their boundaries, securities equations changed, all this is going on right now, all at the same time. >> No, and that's why I was basically retired for five years, and I was at Nicira, we got bought by VMware, I stayed there for a couple years, and I just said, "Okay, that's it!" I've had a good career and I'm done. And about a year ago, the world changed. And it felt like on a Tuesday morning, I noticed enterprises really, we'd been talking about cloud for 12 years. And five years ago they said, "We're coming in, we're going to do it," but they didn't really mean it. But about a year ago, all in the same day, every enterprise said, "No, now we actually mean it." And I don't know why, I don't know if it was just people retired or just five years of talking about it, they all decided, we're comin' in, and enterprises all moved together. And this wave, as you said, is bigger than, I was around in 1992, in the early 90s, in the movement from mainframe to client server. This is 10 times bigger than that. And more importantly, it's going to happen 10,000 times faster. Because (fingers tapping). What's that? I just deployed 62 data centers around the world. Because if I can leverage the greatest infrastructure built, basic infrastructure of the hyperscalers, AWS, Azure, Google, Alibaba, Oracle, you name it. It's unbelievable the velocity at which you can now start deploying. >> Steve, I think you're onto something big here, and this is why I'm here at this event and why I'm excited, that a lot of the industry thought leaders and practitioners and leaders are doing this event. Small events, inaugural, but I think it has a lot of links. Because there's a lot of tell signs that I like to look at, one is cloud. I've been covering Amazon eight years now, with theCUBE, I've known AWS since it started, and I've done many startups in its launch using AWS. But I've had many conversations with Andy Jassy, one on ones, privately, I got an exclusive coming up for re:Invent with him. I've gotten to know him. It started out, "Everyone's moving to the cloud. "Every data center's not going to exist." And then, you know-- >> Oh, maybe not, yeah, yeah. >> Maybe not, we'll do an output. So I challenged him last year, I said, "Andy, come on, dude, like you were saying like a year ago that." >> Steve: Yeah, it's all AWS or nothing. >> And he said, "John, look I'm not, "I just listen to the customers." And I interviewed him when he did the VMware deal. And he's very customer focused. And when they make these moves with outpost, and I think it's going to be a hybrid message this year at re:Invent, you know it's real. >> Steve: Oh, yeah. >> I think this validates your point, so I got to ask you, what specifically do you see the formula being for multicloud, because certainly everyone's recognized that there's a huge benefit for AWS. But from a scale standpoint, so why not use that? What's going on on the Enterprise on-premise that's making this new thing work? >> I think it all starts with architecture, like anything else. I think right now, enterprises have said, "Okay, we've burned a boat, right? "Now, we're not going to get rid of our data centers, "but in terms of our strategic investment, "we are moving into the cloud. "We are going to leverage "the infrastructure of the hyperscalers. "And whether that is just one hyperscaler, or multiple." And I have not met an enterprise who thinks there only going to be one, right, every single one of them. Now, I don't think they're moving workloads across, I don't think that. I think they see that, I'm going to use Google for AI, I'm going to use AWS because it started there. I'm going to use Azure, for Office 365, and other different things, and everything in infrastructure is always multi. It's never homogeneous, right, it's always that. So I think is going to happen, and I think what people are begging for right now, is, I want to build an architecture that gives me the optionality to be able to deliver a common set of services whether I'm on AWS or multiple clouds. And I want them to be my services and I don't want to have understand the low level abstractions and constructs of each of those clouds, because their all different. One's metric, one's U.S., one's some other weird thing. And I don't have the time, the people, or the resources to be able to do that. Give me a common set of services, that are my services, that I can deploy and abstract away the details of those public clouds. >> Yeah, it's an interesting point there, in fact, I called BS on multicloud last year when it started to kind of rear it's head, I'm like, "Come on, multicloud is bullshit." And I said that on theCUBE. And here's what I meant. Multicloud as an operating model is directionally correct, but the architecture hasn't shown where there's true multicloud. Now, the fact of the matter is, people have Amazon, people have Office and Office 365, that's technically two clouds, >> They're siloed, yeah. >> If they give us Google, that's three clouds. >> I use two or three clouds. >> So, if he have three clouds, I guess they have multiple clouds. But you bring up an interesting point, and going back as a student of the history of tech industry, multi-vendor has been a big deal. >> It is a big deal. >> And like you said, there will be a multi-vendor world, that will happen. The question is how. How do you guys see it happening? >> Well I think what's-- >> Your company is attacking this Aviatrix. >> What's interesting is, so now you think about from a customer perspective which, I do the same thing, same thing with AWS. It's always outside in. Okay, I'm thinking as a enterprise IT person. I'm making the move. Do you believe that your basic infrastructure will lever the hyperscalers, or will you build an on-prem? Everyone says, "I believe that's the way I'm going to go." Great, how do I do that? So, I'm a IT architect, who do I go to to help me? Do I go to CISCO? No. The most shocking thing for me, of the six months I've been at Aviatrix, is that word's never used. It's like it was DEC or IBM in the conversation, when you were talking about client-server, no, why would you? CISCO, Juniper, Arista, any of the networking people, not even in the conversation. VMware, not really in the conversation. So, I don't have any incumbent vendor that I can go to that I used to go to. >> Why aren't they in the conversation? 'Cause of the commodity, they've been extracted away? >> I think it's just because it's the innovation of dilemma. Right, once you're selling a lot of stuff into on-prem, to then go and say, I mean you look at Palo Alto Networks, they're trying to make that transition. Acquiring a bunch of companies, VMware acquiring a bunch of companies. Why are they doing that? Because they know, I got to get off on-prem, everything's going in the cloud. >> So it's a legacy. >> It's a legacy thing, and I think what happens is, there is only one reason, and one reason only, an enterprise customer is not using Aviatrix. 'Cause they never heard of us. That's why, that's the only reason. Once they hear about what they're doing, my God. >> Well, give the plug, talk about the company, what do you guys do-- >> So we deliver, I mean it sounds like I made it up for this conference, but actually this conference was perfect for this. It's networking and security services for the multicloud enterprise. And we're building an architecture, that people can deploy, that will give them this common architecture across all the different clouds. So whether you're just using one cloud or multiple, it doesn't matter, it's the same set of security and networking services. And we do that by embracing and extending the basic constructs that AWS, Google, Azure, and Oracle, and all the other clouds will give you, and to deliver that real enterprise class. Because the other thing we've found is, everyone thinks that the cloud gives you everything and anything you will ever need from networking and security. Let's say AWS, they're going to do everything I need. What the enterprises are figuring out, is once they start going in, what they realize is, it's created for the low-level common basic constructs. And the enterprise starts at, well, I need these BGP feature because guess what, the data center is not going away. And I need more than a hundred route limitations, and I need, all of a sudden there's fifty different limitations AWS will give me. Well, they didn't talk about that! Well, of course they're not going to talk about that. They are just going to go check, check, check, we solve all your problems. As enterprises now move in, with mission critical applications, they're realizing, I need the same level of networking and security services that I had on-prem. I can't get that with the native constructs. So where do I go? That's what we do, so we fill in, we embrace what we can of those constructs, we fill in holes where there are fill in holes. And then we give you the mechanism to be able to orchestrate that across the global network. >> So you operationalize the hyperscale clouds for enterprise, >> Yes. >> that's basically what you do. >> Steve: Exactly, for the enterprise. >> Yeah, exactly. >> On the level that they need. >> So you get the benefits of the cloud, but all those nuances under the cover details like networking and other features you abstract that away and provide an operating model for enterprise compliments. >> And the beautiful thing about it is the velocity, at which we can, we're over the top, effectively over the top. We're integrated into the Cloud Suite, understand what cloud native, we understand all the constructs of accounts, and all the things we need to do. But what we expose to the customer, to the enterprise, is a set of over-the-top services that just work. >> Okay Steve, so I got to ask you, since we are at The Multi-Cloud Conference. What is multicloud, I mean how do you define it, you laid out a pretty compelling architecture of what needs are, levers in the cloud, and on-prem is what Aviatrix does. But what is the definition, how should people understand what is multicloud? >> I think for us, for networking and security in that base, so we're basic infrastructure. We get out there first, right? So, if you're going to build a city, you don't start putting people there first the first thing, if you do it right, is you get sewers, you get electricity, gas, roads, all that. Networking and security, infrastructure, is basic infrastructure goes out first. And you want to create an architecture that's going to live with you for twenty years. You don't want to have to rip up the roads and put the sewers in later. And that architecture needs to be multicloud because, even though you think maybe, most of our customers are 90% AWS right now. But every single one of them say, "But I'm moving to Azure, I'm moving to Google, "I've got retail customers that won't allow me "to put my infrastructure on AWS." Or, "I have machine learning, AI type apps on Google." They all say that same thing. But what they all then say to us, is, "You're going to be the mechanism "upon which I'm going to be able to deploy "this common set of services." So they don't need to know that. >> All right, give an example of a customer you guys have, name a name, we had a customer on stage here-- >> Steve: So, Jefferies. >> John: They did this for a use case. >> Yeah so, Jefferies. Financial Services Institution, lots of requirements, Mark Leon Soon is going to be on stage with me tomorrow. We started working with them about nine months ago. Exactly the same thing, they said, "Okay, you know what? "We need to start moving to the cloud, "we've got to start leveraging the cloud. "But, it's too complicated, right? "Even AWS, says 'Go Build.' "I don't want to go build, I want to consume services. "But they don't have all the service that I needed, "they're too low a level. "They're very high function, high enterprise requirements." So they start using us to orchestrate things, to provide transit networking, to provide egress filtering out to the Internet, we have high performance encryption, AWS will only offer it one gig. We can offer it to 10, 20, 30, 40 gig. So they start deploying, they start realizing all the things we do. Then they go and say, "I want to bring my Palo Alto Networks firewall "into the cloud." When you start looking at that, 'cause then guess what? All my policies, I want the same level that I have on-prem when I'm in the cloud. If I go try to bring in my VM series into AWS the construct that AWS give you, they cause you limitations in performance, in visibility, It's integration hassles, there's performance, sustainability, visibility issues, they force you to use SNAT. And there's all these issues, and they go, "Oh my God, this is a pain in the ass." We solved all that for them. We basically cloudify the VM series for them, so all those limitations go away. So that's just another use case that they use. Now they start looking, and they say, "Okay, now I'm going to start extending into other clouds and I want to use you as the common frame point, the common pane of glass. >> Well Steve, good luck in your venture, you're back in the saddle again. >> Steve: Yeah. >> Another ride here, you feel good about it? >> This is going to be the best, the biggest that I've been, and I was at Palo Alto Networks and VMware Nicira. And this one's going to be bigger than both of those. >> What's your vision for where this is going to be for you, where do you see the company in a few years, what are some of the outcomes you expect to happen? >> Our opportunity, and I look at it as, someone's going to take this opportunity, and the reason I came back is, why not us, someone's going to take it. And the opportunity, honestly, is to become, effectively, what Cisco was in the early 90's. To define the architecture, the networking and the security infrastructure architecture for enterprise customers. They are begging for that right now, that's our opportunity. >> Cloud Interoperability. >> Interoperability, yeah. And so there's so many things that we need to go and do. When you look at also the thing that people are going to say, the operations. So many people think, I want it the same as it was on-prem. I think with the cloud, and across multicloud you can do it right with us, and actually better. Because the visibility that you get is more, than what you get on-prem. >> Well, and the thing that's interesting that's different about this new world that we're talking about is that there is going to be constant improvements in new things which means that the functionality game is going to increase, which means the agility is even more important because the apps are going to have more things to do. >> Yeah. I mean in the end, why do you want to go to cloud? I want to go to cloud 'cause I want it to be self-service and I want agility. I want my developers, I want everybody to be able to do things quicker because all of the sudden they say, "Let's go roll this out", and you want to be able to do it. >> Well, good luck on the new venture, Aviatrix, check 'em out, hot multicloud startup, growing, how many people do you have, put the plug in, >> 100. >> what are you guys looking for, are you hiring, give me a quick plug. >> We just hired a new VP at World Wide Sales, James Winebrenner, who was Viptela CEO, VP Sales in Cisco, hiring a tremendous amount of sales guys right now, we're closing on a $40 million Series C round next week, and we're hiring a lot of people. >> Good luck, we'll be following you Steve, thanks for coming on and sharing your insights. Again, multicloud, this is a shift that's happening, multicloud is just another word for multi-vendor, in a new modern era, this is what it has been in the technology industry, but a whole new world. This is theCUBE coverage here in New York City, ESCAPE/19, I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: From New York, it's theCUBE. Covering ESCAPE/19. >> Everyone, welcome to theCUBE coverage here in New York City for the ESCAPE Conference 19. This is the inaugural event for multicloud, I think it's the first industry event for, really talking about multicloud and the impact to enterprises and public cloud. My next guest is Steve Mullaney, President and CEO of Aviatrix, storied career in tech, been there done that, seen many waves of innovation. Nicira, Palo Alto Networks, and now Aviatrix. You retired for a while, welcome back! >> I did, yeah, five years, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, thanks for having me. >> It's nice to have you on because I think you have a good perspective on the multicloud because you've been in the industry since the 80s. We've both been broke in at the same time. And we've seen the waves. >> Oh, yeah. >> This wave is bigger than, I think, most of the other waves combined because it brings together so many things, infrastructure, software, cloud scale, and a new modern application environment. And then you complicate everything by throwing IoT out there, edges being pushed to their boundaries, securities equations changed, all this is going on right now, all at the same time. >> No, and that's why I was basically retired for five years, and I was at Nicira, we got bought by VMware, I stayed there for a couple years, and I just said, "Okay, that's it!" I've had a good career and I'm done. And about a year ago, the world changed. And it felt like on a Tuesday morning, I noticed enterprises really, we'd been talking about cloud for 12 years. And five years ago they said, "We're coming in, we're going to do it," but they didn't really mean it. But about a year ago, all in the same day, every enterprise said, "No, now we actually mean it." And I don't know why, I don't know if it was just people retired or just five years of talking about it, they all decided, we're comin' in, and enterprises all moved together. And this wave, as you said, is bigger than, I was around in 1992, in the early 90s, in the movement from mainframe to client server. This is 10 times bigger than that. And more importantly, it's going to happen 10,000 times faster. Because (fingers tapping). What's that? I just deployed 62 data centers around the world. Because if I can leverage the greatest infrastructure built, basic infrastructure of the hyperscalers, AWS, Azure, Google, Alibaba, Oracle, you name it. It's unbelievable the velocity at which you can now start deploying. >> Steve, I think you're onto something big here, and this is why I'm here at this event and why I'm excited, that a lot of the industry thought leaders and practitioners and leaders are doing this event. Small events, inaugural, but I think it has a lot of links. Because there's a lot of tell signs that I like to look at, one is cloud. I've been covering Amazon eight years now, with theCUBE, I've known AWS since it started, and I've done many startups in its launch using AWS. But I've had many conversations with Andy Jassy, one on ones, privately, I got an exclusive coming up for re:Invent with him. I've gotten to know him. It started out, "Everyone's moving to the cloud. "Every data center's not going to exist." And then, you know-- >> Oh, maybe not, yeah, yeah. >> Maybe not, we'll do an output. So I challenged him last year, I said, "Andy, come on, dude, like you were saying like a year ago that." >> Steve: Yeah, it's all AWS or nothing. >> And he said, "John, look I'm not, "I just listen to the customers." And I interviewed him when he did the VMware deal. And he's very customer focused. And when they make these moves with outpost, and I think it's going to be a hybrid message this year at re:Invent, you know it's real. >> Steve: Oh, yeah. >> I think this validates your point, so I got to ask you, what specifically do you see the formula being for multicloud, because certainly everyone's recognized that there's a huge benefit for AWS. But from a scale standpoint, so why not use that? What's going on on the Enterprise on-premise that's making this new thing work? >> I think it all starts with architecture, like anything else. I think right now, enterprises have said, "Okay, we've burned a boat, right? "Now, we're not going to get rid of our data centers, "but in terms of our strategic investment, "we are moving into the cloud. "We are going to leverage "the infrastructure of the hyperscalers. "And whether that is just one hyperscaler, or multiple." And I have not met an enterprise who thinks there only going to be one, right, every single one of them. Now, I don't think they're moving workloads across, I don't think that. I think they see that, I'm going to use Google for AI, I'm going to use AWS because it started there. I'm going to use Azure, for Office 365, and other different things, and everything in infrastructure is always multi. It's never homogeneous, right, it's always that. So I think is going to happen, and I think what people are begging for right now, is, I want to build an architecture that gives me the optionality to be able to deliver a common set of services whether I'm on AWS or multiple clouds. And I want them to be my services and I don't want to have understand the low level abstractions and constructs of each of those clouds, because their all different. One's metric, one's U.S., one's some other weird thing. And I don't have the time, the people, or the resources to be able to do that. Give me a common set of services, that are my services, that I can deploy and abstract away the details of those public clouds. >> Yeah, it's an interesting point there, in fact, I called BS on multicloud last year when it started to kind of rear it's head, I'm like, "Come on, multicloud is bullshit." And I said that on theCUBE. And here's what I meant. Multicloud as an operating model is directionally correct, but the architecture hasn't shown where there's true multicloud. Now, the fact of the matter is, people have Amazon, people have Office and Office 365, that's technically two clouds, >> They're siloed, yeah. >> If they give us Google, that's three clouds. >> I use two or three clouds. >> So, if he have three clouds, I guess they have multiple clouds. But you bring up an interesting point, and going back as a student of the history of tech industry, multi-vendor has been a big deal. >> It is a big deal. >> And like you said, there will be a multi-vendor world, that will happen. The question is how. How do you guys see it happening? >> Well I think what's-- >> Your company is attacking this Aviatrix. >> What's interesting is, so now you think about from a customer perspective which, I do the same thing, same thing with AWS. It's always outside in. Okay, I'm thinking as a enterprise IT person. I'm making the move. Do you believe that your basic infrastructure will lever the hyperscalers, or will you build an on-prem? Everyone says, "I believe that's the way I'm going to go." Great, how do I do that? So, I'm a IT architect, who do I go to to help me? Do I go to CISCO? No. The most shocking thing for me, of the six months I've been at Aviatrix, is that word's never used. It's like it was DEC or IBM in the conversation, when you were talking about client-server, no, why would you? CISCO, Juniper, Arista, any of the networking people, not even in the conversation. VMware, not really in the conversation. So, I don't have any incumbent vendor that I can go to that I used to go to. >> Why aren't they in the conversation? 'Cause of the commodity, they've been extracted away? >> I think it's just because it's the innovation of dilemma. Right, once you're selling a lot of stuff into on-prem, to then go and say, I mean you look at Palo Alto Networks, they're trying to make that transition. Acquiring a bunch of companies, VMware acquiring a bunch of companies. Why are they doing that? Because they know, I got to get off on-prem, everything's going in the cloud. >> So it's a legacy. >> It's a legacy thing, and I think what happens is, there is only one reason, and one reason only, an enterprise customer is not using Aviatrix. 'Cause they never heard of us. That's why, that's the only reason. Once they hear about what they're doing, my God. >> Well, give the plug, talk about the company, what do you guys do-- >> So we deliver, I mean it sounds like I made it up for this conference, but actually this conference was perfect for this. It's networking and security services for the multicloud enterprise. And we're building an architecture, that people can deploy, that will give them this common architecture across all the different clouds. So whether you're just using one cloud or multiple, it doesn't matter, it's the same set of security and networking services. And we do that by embracing and extending the basic constructs that AWS, Google, Azure, and Oracle, and all the other clouds will give you, and to deliver that real enterprise class. Because the other thing we've found is, everyone thinks that the cloud gives you everything and anything you will ever need from networking and security. Let's say AWS, they're going to do everything I need. What the enterprises are figuring out, is once they stop going in, what they realize is, it's created for the low-level common basic constructs. And the enterprise starts at, well, I need these BGP feature because guess what, the data center is not going away. And I need more than a hundred route limitations, and I need, all of a sudden there's fifty different limitations AWS will give me. Well, they didn't talk about that! Well, of course they're not going to talk about that. They are just going to go check, check, check, we solve all your problems. As enterprises now move in, with mission critical applications, they're realizing, I need the same level of networking and security services that I had on-prem. I can't get that with the native constructs. So where do I go? That's what we do, so we fill in, we embrace what we can of those constructs, we fill in holes where there are fill in holes. And then we give you the mechanism to be able to orchestrate that across the global network. >> So you operationalize the hyperscale clouds for enterprise, >> Yes. >> that's basically what you do. >> Steve: Exactly, for the enterprise. >> Yeah, exactly. >> On the level that they need. >> So you get the benefits of the cloud, but all those nuances under the cover details like networking and other features you abstract that away and provide an operating model for enterprise compliments. >> And the beautiful thing about it is the velocity, at which we can, we're over the top, effectively over the top. We're integrated into the Cloud Suite, understand what cloud native, we understand all the constructs of accounts, and all the things we need to do. But what we expose to the customer, to the enterprise, is a set of over-the-top services that just work. >> Okay Steve, so I got to ask you, since we are at The Multi-Cloud Conference. What is multicloud, I mean how do you define it, you laid out a pretty compelling architecture of what needs are, levers in the cloud, and on-prem is what Aviatrix does. But what is the definition, how should people understand what is multicloud? >> I think for us, for networking and security in that base, so we're basic infrastructure. We get out there first, right? So, if you're going to build a city, you don't start putting people there first the first thing, if you do it right, is you get sewers, you get electricity, gas, roads, all that. Networking and security, infrastructure, is basic infrastructure goes out first. And you want to create an architecture that's going to live with you for twenty years. You don't want to have to rip up the roads and put the sewers in later. And that architecture needs to be multicloud because, even though you think maybe, most of our customers are 90% AWS right now. But every single one of them say, "But I'm moving to Azure, I'm moving to Google, "I've got retail customers that won't allow me "to put my infrastructure on AWS." Or, "I have machine learning, AI type apps on Google." They all say that same thing. But what they all then say to us, is, "You're going to be the mechanism "upon which I'm going to be able to deploy "this common set of services." So they don't need to know that. >> All right, give an example of a customer you guys have, name a name, we had a customer on stage here-- >> Steve: So, Jefferies. >> John: They did this for a use case. >> Yeah so, Jefferies. Financial Services Institution, lots of requirements, Mark Leon Soon is going to be on stage with me tomorrow. We started working with them about nine months ago. Exactly the same thing, they said, "Okay, you know what? "We need to start moving to the cloud, "we've got to start leveraging the cloud. "But, it's too complicated, right? "Even AWS, says 'Go Build.' "I don't want to go build, I want to consume services. "But they don't have all the service that I needed, "they're too low a level. "They're very high function, high enterprise requirements." So they start using us to orchestrate things, to provide transit networking, to provide egress filtering out to the Internet, we have high performance encryption, AWS will only offer it one gig. We can offer it to 10, 20, 30, 40 gig. So they start deploying, they start realizing all the things we do. Then they go and say, "I want to bring my Palo Alto Networks firewall "into the cloud." When you start looking at that, 'cause then guess what? All my policies, I want the same level that I have on-prem when I'm in the cloud. If I go try to bring in my VM series into AWS the construct that AWS give you, they cause you limitations in performance, in visibility, It's integration hassles, there's performance, sustainability, visibility issues, they force you to use SNAT. And there's all these issues, and they go, "Oh my God, this is a pain in the ass." We solved all that for them. We basically cloudify the VM series for them, so all those limitations go away. So that's just another use case that they use. Now they start looking, and they say, "Okay, now I'm going to start extending into other clouds and I want to use you as the common frame point, the common pane of glass. >> Well Steve, good luck in your venture, you're back in the saddle again. >> Steve: Yeah. >> Another ride here, you feel good about it? >> This is going to be the best, the biggest that I've been, and I was at Palo Alto Networks and VMware Nicira. And this one's going to be bigger than both of those. >> What's your vision for where this is going to be for you, where do you see the company in a few years, what are some of the outcomes you expect to happen? >> Our opportunity, and I look at it as, someone's going to take this opportunity, and the reason I came back is, why not us, someone's going to take it. And the opportunity, honestly, is to become, effectively, what Cisco was in the early 90's. To define the architecture, the networking and the security infrastructure architecture for enterprise customers. They are begging for that right now, that's our opportunity. >> Cloud Interoperability. >> Interoperability, yeah. And so there's so many things that we need to go and do. When you look at also the thing that people are going to say, the operations. So many people think, I want it the same as it was on-prem. I think with the cloud, and across multicloud you can do it right with us, and actually better. Because the visibility that you get is more, than what you get on-prem. >> Well, and the thing that's interesting that's different about this new world that we're talking about is that there is going to be constant improvements in new things which means that the functionality game is going to increase, which means the agility is even more important because the apps are going to have more things to do. >> Yeah. I mean in the end, why do you want to go to cloud? I want to go to cloud 'cause I want it to be self-service and I want agility. I want my developers, I want everybody to be able to do things quicker because all of the sudden they say, "Let's go roll this out", and you want to be able to do it. >> Well, good luck on the new venture, Aviatrix, check 'em out, hot multicloud startup, growing, how many people do you have, put the plug in, >> 100. >> what are you guys looking for, are you hiring, give me a quick plug. >> We just hired a new VP at World Wide Sales, James Winebrenner, who was Viptela CEO, VP Sales in Cisco, hiring a tremendous amount of sales guys right now, we're closing on a $40 million Series C round next week, and we're hiring a lot of people. >> Good luck, we'll be following you Steve, thanks for coming on and sharing your insights. Again, multicloud, this is a shift that's happening, multicloud is just another word for multi-vendor, in a new modern era, this is what it has been in the technology industry, but a whole new world. This is theCUBE coverage here in New York City, ESCAPE/19, I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from San Diego, California, it's The Cube! Covering Cisco Live U.S. 2019. Brought to you by Cisco and it's eco system partners. >> Welcome back to the Cube's coverage of Cisco Live, Day 3 from buzzy, sunny San Diego. I'm Lisa Martin, my co-host is Stu Miniman and Stu and I are pleased to welcome to the Cube Stephanie Wible, Senior Product Manager, hybrid networking and SD-WAN, from CenturyLink. Stephanie, welcome to the Cube! >> Thank you, I'm glad to be here. >> Yeah, so welcome to the buzzy dev nut zone. This place has been buzzing for three days now. >> It is definitely an active session over here today. >> It is, so let's talk about SD-WAN. We've heard a lot the last few days about the massive transformations to the network. Changing customer demands, changing customer needs, talk to us about the SD-WAN marketplace, overall. >> So we don't have a conversation with any of our customers these days that don't include some kind of a conversation about SD-WAN. Everybody is looking to transform their networks and their looking for the next best thing. They're also trying future-proof their networks. Some of the customer drivers that we see are folks looking to augment existing MPLS networks with lower cost access, making the best use of their assets, both from an equipment perspective as well as a network perspective. And then having that sort of centralized command and control capability that SD-WAN provides them. >> Alright, so Stephanie the SD-WAN space, while most customers are familiar with it, it's not a monolithic space. It's not like there's five products on the market and there all very similar. There's a few different areas and even Cisco has two primary products that your offering. Can you give us a little bit about the lay of the land as to what use cases there are for the various pieces? How do you decide which there are? Or I know I've talked to customers that have had multiple SD-WAN solutions. >> That's a good point. So, when we initially started looking at SD-WAN, we kind of did a RFI on about 15 or so different vendors. The market has compressed a little bit since then through acquisitions and mergers but we at CenturyLink, in particular, recognized that one size does not fit all for all customers. So we wanted to offer a choice of services for our customers and most of the vendors have very similar kind of capability but some have other features that some don't. For example, the Meraki one, we typically have our branch customers, our customers that have many homogenous kind of like sites that they want something simple and something easy and not something that has a lot of bells and whistles. That's a perfect fit for them. It's very easy to install and get it up and running. Where something like Viptela that has a lot more capability and a lot more customization available would be perfect for some of our larger customers. The Telepher, for example, is we have a large install base of customers already using Cisco gear, the ASR and the ISR, where that's very attractive to those folks where they can just lay the software on top of their existing assets without having to do a full network swap out. And then our other option is our Versa which was our initial launch which was in 2016. Again, that's a full-featured SD-WAN capability. So it kind of depends and we try to bring the customers and have that conversation. Understand what theirs drivers are so that we can help tailor them and select and help them select one of the options that we have. >> Yeah I have to imagine that most of the time you're really helping the customer down there. It's not, "Okay there's a catalog, choose which one." That's some of the reason we would go to a CenturyLink is so that you listen to them, understand that, and you've helped filter a lot of that for them and maybe get them down to some of the just what size they're buying. >> Yep, and its not just the vendors. The pure play vendors talk about we call it the tip of the iceberg. So they talk about the SD-WAN capability. Where CenturyLink can add a lot of value to that is we also provide hybrid WAN solution and PLS, we also do. That's the public, the private section. And we recently, with the introduction of our SD-WAN services, started offering public connectivity in broadband and WIFI. So we can offer the mix of access along with the overlay service. We can be the single button to push for that but we also have had extensive history in managed services. So we have done managed routers and managed iads for our voice or data. And then the other big portion of that is we are a global provider, so for those customers looking to expand they're already in our global network. We've got one of the largest global backbones in the world. >> So let's give our audience a view from a customer who is in the process of needing to upgrade their network being able to future-proof it, as you said a few minutes ago, be ready for WIFI sites. Say it's a bank with many different retail branches. What would be the ideal solution for them? Would it be something more like Viptela that, is that more customizable? That in one branch you might need a much smaller pipe than you do in a much larger branch? What goes through that for a customer that's going through that upgrade process to modernize their network? >> Yep, so we try to have our technical experts go in and sit down with the customer and kind of do a question and answer session and try to understand what their business drivers are, what solutions that they're trying to solve for, and provide guidance and expertise along that lines and try to suss out. We also have what we call a Transformation Workshop where we like to bring customers in and have a kind of in-depth conversation, one-on-one conversation, show them some of the demos of the services that we offer and try to suss out what their real requirements are. And then, again, we can offer solutions and say, "Hey, based on the footprint that you have, "based on the connectivity options that you want, "based on your time frame, based on your cost," all of those things are factors to where would direct a customer. >> So giving them sort of a prescriptive, customized pathway for that upgrade based on all the analysis about what they, what their current lay of their WAN looks like and where they want to get to. >> Exactly, exactly. >> So, Stephanie I knew you'd do those in-depth discussions with customers. One the great opportunities about a show like Cisco is you've got 28,000 people here coming by the booth, coming into to sessions, so you get to speed date on some of these things, but what are some of the top things that they're asking for? What are some of the pain points that your hearing from customers? Is SD-WAN one of the top things bringing them to you? Or what are some of those key conversations? >> SD-WAN is, that's been kind of the industry term and so everybody knows a little bit about it and the crazy part is a lot people coming in have really done their homework and know a lot about the differences between the different platforms. Security is at the top of everybody's mind and that is another really big driver that everybody wants to have a conversation about. Security, how can I get a security patches out to my endpoints faster and better and quicker? How do I integrate my security with an SD-WAN solution? And so we see those a lot. We have answers for those questions and we can help folks figure that out. >> So here we are at the 30th annual Cisco customer partner event. A lot of evolution in the last 30 years. A lot of work has been done by Cisco to transition from just a hardware network gear provider to hardware, now software. Challenging for large organizations with the history and the product depth and the networking expertise-- >> Absolutely. >> that a company like Cisco has. I want to get your opinion. You've been with CenturyLink for a long time. CenturyLink and Cisco also go way back. >> Stephanie: Yep >> What are some of the advantages is CenturyLink seeing by Cisco's transition to more of a software provider? >> Cisco's always been a great hardware provider partner for us and I hadn't worked in that space too much. However, the folks that we have been working with, both on the Meraki side and Viptela side, super responsive, super willing to help. They're always available. What questions can we answer? Can we get in? Is there training that we can provide? They've been great. Super partners to work with. >> In terms of the customer reaction though, is it giving you guys a leg up, an advantage, that there is more of a software lead approach of looking at an old legacy company that is much more modernized? If you think of how Cisco would compete with a born-in-the-cloud company, what is that kind of competitive advantage like for you guys? >> That's an interesting thing too. So where Cisco has traditionally been a hardware provider, a lot of our customers are very familiar. They're CCIE network certified. It's funny trying to get those folks over. Some are very, its usually the younger set that's willing to go the whole software designed route. So its a challenge. Some folks are very, very much old school and they want to stick with the hardware-based solutions and they don't want to move to the digital world. However, things, cloud computing and all the applications moving to the cloud is kind of forcing them there. So its kind of a slow cycle on some of those and then some of their smaller groups. And we, the early adopters were the ones that were, "Yeah, let's just jump in "and go directly the software route," so it's-- >> Yeah, Stephanie you bring up a great point. I used to give presentations and when you would talk about rollout of technology in the network world, we would measure it in a decade. >> Right, yeah. >> It was like, "Okay, here comes 10 gig and there's the standard "and here's the piece," and all the things like that. What are some of those drivers in your customers because are they moving? You know we found, in general, they are moving faster. Speed is one of the things that we talk about. That agility to be able to respond. So what are some of those drivers from your companies that your work with that's helping them refresh faster, look at new technologies, and be open to some change? >> I think it's just keeping up with the industry. Like you said, it used to take years to do things and now its changing on a monthly and a weekly basis. And people are, I think, they're a little bit scared. It's like if we don't do something, we're going to get left behind. And it, the industry, is kind of forcing people to make those changes. Cost driver is another one that we see and people having to hit their fiscal numbers and everything else like that. But network transformation is not a simple thing. It's not a quick go in, run something. It's something that requires a lot of planning, a lot of analysis, and you want to, what do the old carpenters say? You measure twice and cut once, right? You want to plan, you want to plan, you want to plan and then you implement. So it does take time and people are getting there. When we first start talking about SD-WAN there was a lot of talk, it was a lot of talk, it was a lot of talk, it was a lot of talk and all a sudden then you start seeing, and it seems to be speeding up. People wanting to make decisions. We've had people that have had experiences and have shared experiences, and I think that has helped people make their decisions to actually go. >> What are some of the factors, like security, as an accelerator of a business that maybe might be on the slower side to migrate and start moving to a multi-cloud? Which a lot of businesses live in. Security also just the threat of being Uber-ized by a smaller company that isn't taking advantage-- >> They can move fast. >> Right, of whether it's network automation, SD-WAN, taking advantage of the expansion of 5G. What are some of those, how are some of the security and some of those other threats, are they catalysts that you guys are leveraging with customers to help them understand why the transition is imperative? >> I think they are. I think the iPhones and the laptop devices where you can click and have that immediate user experience, that's starting to build people's expectations that you can get things that quickly. And for the old legacy companies that aren't willing to get in there and to start thinking about doing that migration and change, they will get left behind. It's just where the industry is today. >> Great, Stephanie, why don't I give you the, give us the take-away from Cisco Live. You know, Cisco plus CenturyLink, what's that mean for customers? >> I'm sorry, I didn't catch all, I'm sorry. >> Cisco plus CenturyLink, the take-away for customers. >> Yeah, we're great partners. We've been partners for years. We continue to be partners. I think we bring a great marriage of the SD-WAN services and our hybrid network and all of our managed services together. Lots of years of experience and we love helping our customers, both of us. We want to delight and provide that great customer experience. >> Well. Stephanie, it's been a pleasure to have you on the Cube talking about all things SD-WAN, marketplace, the drivers, the opportunities, and the benefits. We appreciate your time. >> Thanks so much you guys. Have a great show. >> Thank you. For Stu Miniman, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube Live from Cisco Live, San Diego. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live, from San Diego, California it's the Cube, covering CISCO Live US 2019. Brought to you by CISCO and its ecosystem partners. >> Good morning from sunny San Diego. Lisa Martin with Stew Menaman. This is Day three of the Cube's coverage of CISCO Live. You can hear all of the buzz behind us. Day three is just as jammed as days one and two. We're pleased to welcome, for the first time a couple of guests. We've go Muninder Sambi, VP of Product Management, Routing and SD-WAN & Switching and Neil Anderson, Practice Director of Network Solutions, WWT to my right. Gentlemen, welcome to the Cube. >> Thanks, thank you. >> So before we went live, Neil and Muninder, we were talking about the 20 year relationship CISCO WWT, each other's largest partners. As we look at the transformation that CISCO has undergone and all of the transformation of the network, there's so many expectations with 5G, with WiFi six, speed, et cetera, but security. Talk to us about how the relationship has evolved and what you guys are doing together with SD-WAN. >> I think, you know we've definitely had a consultative relationship where we saw the SD-WAN market emerging pretty early, for example. And we immediately talked with our CISCO counterparts, with Muninder and his team about what are the things we're seeing developing in our customer base and how do their products need to evolve to adapt to that? And so I think its been a really good relationship. >> Well actually, I mean it's 20 years of relationship. But we've known Neil for a very long time. And I think the SD-WAN market is evolving so fast, with cloud applications with applications moving to the cloud, with work loads that are changing. Customers expecting a very different branch experience. And Office 365 is an example, that is leading their experience. So much of the innovations that we have done so far has been towards the branch. We have enhanced like multi-layered security. We have enhanced application quality of experience. But recently what we have also announced, is the ability to extend SD-WAN beyond the branch. So, we just announced the secured cloud-scale SD-WAN, where you can now take the same orchestration platform, the same policy that you define. You can extend it from the branch all the way into your core location into the cloud. And this architecture that we talked about, could not have been done with the partnership with WWT. >> Yeah, that's absolutely what we're seeing in our customer base. As customers are adopting the public cloud more, adopting SaaS applications more in the cloud, there's a real need to extend the WAN fabric out to the cloud. And that's, historically its been more of a branch-to-branch, branch-to-headquarters technology, but we're really seeing that as branch-to-cloud is becoming almost the core part of the conversation for SD-WAN now. >> Yeah, Neil, wondering if you could expand on that a little bit for us. Give us that customer viewpoint because, you know for a bunch of years it was like well, SD-fying everything out there, what does that really mean? WAN's always been a complicated space. And it, what I've heard the last couple years, is SD-WAN is one of the critical components of customers when they do multi-cloud. But what I've heard a lot this week is more than just some of that networking piece, there's a lot of security aspects of it and there's a lot nuance and other features that are coming into the SD-WAN portfolio. >> Yeah and that's absolutely what we're seeing as customers are, you know, they need to find that comfort level I need to extend my connectivity out to the cloud, but how do I do that in a secure way? And SD-WAN makes it just very, very easy to do that. Whereas before it was tougher to manage. But with SD-WAN, especially with the CISCO V-Managed portfolio, being able to manage my security out there as well as the SD-WAN productivity. It just makes it easier for customers to finally extend their fabric out to the cloud. >> And we've also given choices. Traditionally, customers would have implemented security and WAN, they come together in the branch. But many customers are looking at regional hubs. You know, regional hubs where they can now have best-in-breed, the SD-WAN stack with security. Stitch it with other L4, L7 services. And we can offer this as a cookie-cutter part-type approach that they can buy. Or they can actually go and get it procured from WTT. >> So, walk us through, Muninder we'll start with you, for customers that have really nailed the branch from the networking perspective, but now you're offering this capability beyond the branch. What is that network transformation extension process like for customers to go through? >> What does, sorry I didn't hear the end part. >> Oh sorry, it's loud in here. What is that process for a customer who's got phenomenal networking within their branch, to now work with CISCO and WWT to go beyond the branch. What's that upgrade process like? >> So, the first process would be obviously getting with our partners, with our many services partners, getting your SD-WAN infrastructure in the branch. Deploying multi-layer security, applying application quality of experience. As they look at more and more cloud connectivity. They look at applications and workloads going to the cloud, they start to create these regional hubs or, and they want to be able to centralize many of the branch security capabilities in that place. And be able to do L4, L7 stitching. And for that capability that we're announcing is what we call internally is cloud on-ramp for core location. We also have cloud ramp for infrastructure as a service, which means you can extend that same, same technology, same solution into the multi-cloud environment. >> Is the on-ramp a set of services, consultant services or an actual product suite that customers can use or deploy? >> It is actually a product suite that they can consume directly from CISCO, or they can partner with WWT to consume it as a service. >> And the nice part about the capabilities that Muninder is talking about is that, it's built into the V-Manage platform. So its another, to the customer it looks like another SD-WAN note out there, it looks like another branch. Essentially through V-Manage. Makes it super easy for customers to figure that out because it is new to them. This concept of regional codal hubs, is very new. A little bit of a different skill-set required to understand and how to architect that, but what we're looking at is what the V-Manage platform and the capabilities they've put in with cloud on-ramp, it's just going to make it a very natural way for customers to turn that on and consume it that way. Because they're already familiar with V-Manage and SD-WAN. So we think its actually a brilliant move and it's going to simplify things for our customer base. >> It's a fully automated stack that's multi-talent. So for Neil, he can offer it not just to one customer, he can offer the same infrastructure to multiple customers. While providing security. >> Yeah, absolutely. If customers are not comfortable with that concept, we can manage it for them and offer it as a managed service as well. >> Yeah, so Neil you've got some long history with CISCO in, we've talked about simplicity a little bit. Can you walk through a little bit about kind of the role of a partner like WWT, today and maybe versus what it might have been five or 10 years ago? >> Yeah, I would say its definitely evolving, right? I mean, I think in the past we were a little bit more of the fulfillment side, right? We would come in and help the customer, they kind of knew what they wanted to purchase. We would help them figure out how they were going to deploy that across their 3000 branch sites. And we were very, very good at that. I think where its evolved to today is that, we're doing a lot more of that upfront consulting and design architecture work, alongside our partner CISCO to help customers figure out what is that next generation WAN need to look like from the start? And that's a new aspect of our business. Is really that upfront consulting and designing of the network itself. >> Yeah, I mean, if I could, I think before it was, a lot of it was, you know, boxes. How many ports and what do I need? And therefore, you needed to do more of the configuration when it got there. And rack it and stack it and do all that, as oppose to today, there's so many choices out there. Once we've chosen it and architected it, you've pre-built it, the roll-outs a little bit easier than it might have been in the past. Is that a fair statement? >> Absolutely and that's where really our services are shifting from that downstream service to more of that upfront service. The other thing we're doing is, my being able to consume to APIs from the platform. We can add new things on there that are specific to that customer that maybe aren't out of the box from CISCO. >> More software led sales motion as well. >> I was going to ask you about that. >> This has been a journey for all of us. I think we've also evolved, transformed as a company. Much more towards SDX stack, both on the campus, on the branch and the data center. And I mean, having partners with Neil, I mean, we were very used to, he has a new innovation and WWT, lets go position this with our customers. Now, it's more about what does the customer want to achieve? It's tying it back to their application workload. It's tying it back to their cloud-first strategy. Understanding that and up leveling how software can enable it, that's a big learning for all of us. And it doesn't go, it goes with code development. We have to code develop together, because the number of customers that Neil has access to, we get tons and tons of use cases and new information from it and we develop on top of those. >> Yeah, that's what I would say, Muninder is, you used to deliver products. Now you're actually delivering a platform, that partners like us can take that platform, actually layer software on top of it, if it's needed to deliver what the customer's really looking for, for their outcome. >> Yeah, so, Neil when I look at the SD-WAN space, there's still, it's not one market, there's the bunch of different pieces out there. Why CISCO for SD-WAN, what's kind of the killer use case for them and what differentiates them in the marketplace. >> Well, that's interesting. We had a relationship with the Viptela team prior to CISCO's acquisition. We felt very early that they had a lead on the market and they were going to do some very disruptive things, and we were very happy when CISCO acquired them. And the speed with which CISCO's integrated them into the portfolio is actually pretty amazing. But what we saw in them was, they were accomplishing a lot of things, right. They were able to have this balance of being able to support the deep-routing features that our big customers were looking for, but at the same time making that simpler to turn on and consume with the V-Manage platform. So, we had picked them pretty early as a big player in the market and we're really happy that, you know CISCO has integrated them into the portfolio, 'cause it's made it even better. CISCO's doing things with them that they could have never done on their own. >> Well, we'll be excited to see how the Beyond The Branch manifests with WWT and CISCO. Gentlemen, thank you for joining Stew and me on the Cube this morning on day three. >> Absolutely. >> Thank you very much. >> Oh, our pleasure. For Stew Minamen, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube live from San Diego CISCO Live Day three. We'll be right back. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Live from Orlando, Florida. It's theCUBE, covering Cisco Live 2018. Brought to you by Cisco, NetApp, and theCUBE's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back I'm Stu Miniman. And this is theCUBE's coverage of Cisco Live 2018 Orlando. Getting to the end of two days of three days of wall to wall coverage, happy to welcome to the program Wayne Ogozaly who's a cloud architect with Cisco. From my neck of the woods up in New England. Thanks so much for joining us down here. >> Pleasure to be here. It's getting towards the end of the day which means thundershowers will probably hit for an hour or so. >> Exactly, exactly, it's sunny in the morning and I brought an umbrella, who knew. >> Absolutely, so Wayne you've been with Cisco for a few years Why don't you give us a little bit about your background before we get into it. >> Sure, I started out with Cisco as an engineer. Actually before Cisco, a rocket scientist at Raytheon Company, so I had all sorts of fun before I got hooked on the internet stuff. So I've been a data center architect, spent quite a few years in the media area providing mogul applications, as well as some of the content development side of the media part of Cisco And now I'm into service provider markets which is fantastic >> So before we get into service providers give us your impression of the show this year It'd been a few years since I've come and it's changed quite a bit you know. Big crowd here, we're in the DevNet zone definitely some of the buzz of the show here. What's your impression of the show so far? >> I feel a huge amount of energy. I deal with service providers and we've had so many service providers come by our booth. There's a huge amount of excitement about bringing new managed services to market. DNA Center launch was huge for us. We're showing live demonstrations of that at our booth as well, and I feel like it's almost at a tipping point, where we're going to be talking about software defined networking and NFV. It's been a long time coming but now we're actually kind of crossing the chasm hopefully where we'll be sharing with you some pretty big announcements very soon on large customers deploying those exact services at massive scale. >> Yeah, so we love talking about service providers, we're talking to service providers on theCUBE because when you talk about scale, when you talk about pace of change, when you talk about pressures of financials. Well there's very few places where they all come together for the service providers. Why don't tell us about the product solution set that you're working on and what the news is here. >> Sounds great So I'm part of the Managed Services Accelerator group that has developed a new cloud product. It's been around for a couple years. We've had some major deployments namely at Verizon and Vodafone and a couple other tier ones. A couple huge announcements coming out very shortly. But Managed Services Accelerator allows service providers to deploy many different services across a multi-tenant platform that runs exclusively in the cloud. So we'll talk about what cloud native means what some of the services are. But we're able to bring services to market much more quickly than you were ever able to do in the past. We're able to go from service creation to actual service deployment in literally weeks As some of our major SP's, and those services span a wide range of opportunities, like deploying Meraki or deploying Viptela SD-WAN, or deploying a managed routed service Or even deploying DNA center for a managed SD access. So it's a broad spectrum of services that we can help service providers bring to market very quickly. >> Yeah I love that 'cause if you look at the service providers the applications are so critically important. >> It all starts with the app. If you don't have a compelling app nobody wants to buy it. >> Look the public cloud players are adding new application and new services on practically a daily clip these days. And service providers, many of them partnering with the public cloud but there's still lots of things that they need to do themselves, locally or in certain verticals. So give us some insight, what are some of the things your customers are looking for. How do they keep up with that pace of change and how does this offering help them do that? >> So the cool thing about MSX, or Managed Services Accelerator is it provides a service provider platform for multi tenancy, many different customers in one platform many different services from both Cisco and third party vendors, and those services span both physical devices, traditional ISRs, ASRs, third-party Juniper boxes, whatever, as well as VNFs, virtual network functions. That run in a public cloud like AWS or in your private data center, as a service provider or, in a universal CPE, or a virtual branch or for our Cisco folks, ENCS, Enterprise Network Compute System. It's a virtual branch x86, where we can run service chains down there, we provide a wide range of services that provide the ability to configure and deploy multiple services toward a single customer all from one place. Some of the challenges that our service providers have, is that they have many different service offers but each of those service offers is in its own silo. And every time they want to bring a new service to market, they have to spend many millions of dollars trying to integrate whether they're northbound OSS or BSS system. Or integrate with a new set of vendors. We, from a singe cloud platform allow them a single platform to integrate many different services from one place in a beautiful sort of cloud managed way. >> There's a large portfolio that customers need to sort out. One of the areas we're hearing a lot of discussion about has been the SD-WAN, how does that fit into this whole discussion? >> The SD-WAN service is one of our most popular services. It's being deployed at scale at Vodafone and Verizon. The Viptela acquisition for Cisco Cisco SD-WAN, now that it's named, has been very popular in that it allows customers, enterprises to have a choice of NPLS, internet, or even 4G or soon to be 5G backbone networks that they can run the traffic of their choice across. Enterprises want SD-WAN not just for the ability to choose policies and map applications to certain overlays or tunnels. But they're also using it to lower their cost significantly. So they can, from the cloud, kind of like a Meraki cloud. Manage many different devices with a single click of a button, I can push a new policy down in a software defined way to a hundred different devices and maybe move Netflix that might have been running on an NPLS circuit, to a internet access circuit with the click of a button. That's the power that SD-WAN provides and it provides enterprises that capability natively. Service providers offer it as a managed service, enterprises can log into our MSX platform and be able to control the traffic that they want and steer it with clicks of buttons, not large amounts of configurations. >> Wayne you've mentioned a couple of very large customers that are using this, is this something that is geared for the top 20 large service providers or will it hit hundreds, thousands of services providers around the globe? >> It's really both, it's targeted, and I can say that because architecturally it's a cloud-native platform. It's built with Docker containers, Kubernetes microservice framework, when Google, it's built on a similar architecture of Google. So when Google's rolling out 1,500 services a year, the MSX platform's goal is to get more than 100 services a year rolled out in this platform. So the service creation portion of it allows large service providers, like Verizon or Vodafone or many others to be able to offer those services more efficiently from the cloud and manage them. But the smaller guys, are also able to tap into these services because we offer a kind of a pay as you grow model. We offer a one year of three year term license to purchase the product which is very small And then there's like a little three to five dollar a month management fee for every device you have under management. So there's a very low cost of entry that you're able to tap into this powerful cloud management platform and offer any sort of service that you want for both large service providers as well as small service providers. >> You touched on some of the pricing there. How does that work today, do you look and feel like you know most cloud models today, really more of a Opex and a Capex? >> It's a tremendous opex savings. This is really an opex play when we look at it from a service provider perspective. Service providers are challenged today because they're trying to offer many different services but each service is a unique silo. And they've got to integrate a wide range of different pieces of that silo for every new service. So in a multi-tenant environment I need to have billing, I need to have northbound OSS BSS integration, I need to have a consistent user interface, I need to have notifications, I need to have tenancy, user roles, single sign on. Do I really want to integrate that uniquely for every new service or do I want to have Managed Services Accelerator manage all of that for me and then the service provider can focus more on the service. So it's an opex play to allow them to not only bring new services to market more quickly, but once they're brought to market through both REST APIs and our Network Services Orchestrator configure them very rapidly. >> Wanna step back for a second. When we look at this whole kinda cloud discussion for a while, you know there was discussion of like oh well maybe, how much is really going to go to the public cloud or fighting the public cloud and the service providers were caught being pulled from the old world in the new world. I don't think we've really hit equilibrium yet but service providers really understand and the message that I've heard from Cisco this week and really for the last year or so has been that hybrid multi cloud world is where we live. It's not going to be an answer. We always know everything's an additive in IT and nothing really ever dies. What do you hear from your service provider partners you know, how are they feeling, what do they think about, the changing dynamic of this world? >> Like John Chambers used to say, "We need to deal with the world the way it is "and not the way we'd wish it to be." Service providers realize that it is a multi cloud environment. They need to be able to accommodate different services and different service models based on what their customers are looking for. They also need to be able to achieve operational efficiency when they're rolling out those services to be able to make it commercially viable. So what we're hearing from our service providers is that they want a multi service environment that MSX, or Managed Services Accelerator, provides them where they can manage maybe deploying a device in AWS, to front end and application space for a particular tenant and then connect that device. Whether it be a Meraki virtual managed device or a Viptela vEdge device, to an SD-WAN that's connected to rest of their enterprises And then when they walk out of one of their branch devices and they get on their mobile network we can enable through Cisco, the connection between 5G slicing and a SD-WAN service so that the service that they get on their phone and the policies that are applied on their phone are identical to those that they've worked so hard to deploy actually in their branches, in their headquarters, in their campuses, or in the cloud. It is a multi-cloud environment. Almost every single application domain spans all of those components. MSX, or Managed Services Accelerator, allows you to kind of centrally manage all of those functions from one place. >> Okay, so Wayne MSX, new branding, some new features some new customers, give us a little bit of what we can expect to see through the rest of this year with this solution. >> You're going to see some pretty big announcements of some new service providers doing some new services with MSX. Those new services include the deployment of new SD-WAN networks, very exciting on our virtual branch platform where our ENCS, or X86 based branch will be rolled out at large scale with a couple service providers. Where you can decide what VNFs you want to put on there. What service chains they represent and how you want to monetize them. Been talking about universal CPs for a long time, this is the year it's going to happen at scale using MSX and ENCS, and then you're going to see managed devices cloud connect to AWS and wide range of other services including Meraki and others that build out the portfolio. But bottom line with MSX is, we know our service providers want a diversity of services. It's a service creation platform. We expect service providers to bring their service to the table, we can accommodate it, monetize it, bring it to market very rapidly. And I would expect to hear a wide range of wonderful announcements from Cisco and the MSX team in the next few months. >> Alright well Wayne really appreciate you bringing this service provider angle to us. We're at the end of two days of three days of live coverage covering all the angles from Cisco Live 2018 here in Orlando, be sure to check out theCUBE.net for all the replays as well as all the shows that we will be at in the future. For Stu Miniman and my co-host John Furrier, thanks so much for watching theCUBE. (gentle music)

>> Live from Orlando, Florida, it's The Cube, covering Cisco Live 2018 brought to you by Cisco, NetApp and The Cube's ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back everyone, we're here live at Cisco 2018, Cisco Live 2018. It's The Cube live coverage here in Orlando, Florida. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman my co-host for the next three days of live coverage. Our next guest is Brooks Borcherding, president and CEO of LiveAction and Darren Kimura, chief strategist and vice chair from LiveAction, fresh off the heels of a great acquisition. Next generation monitoring, networking. Welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for joining us. It's good to see you again. >> Thank you, we're so glad to be here. >> So, love the action going on, literally, LiveAction with MNA activity. You guys got some good news happening around the company but also Cisco's event here really is perfectly poised for what you guys are doing. The CEO on stage literally saying to his army of customers, "This old way is now old. This is the new modern era." And really talking about what is multicloud, basically. So his entire army of customers are moving to next generation. So it intersects with what you guys are doing, so take a minute to talk about LiveAction and the news. >> Okay, so I think first of all, LiveAction, you know, we've always been known to be a leader in network management. We've worked very, very closely with Cisco for a dozen years and what we help companies do is take the complexity out of the management of their large networks. So that's been the core, fundamental, you know, value proposition that we've always delivered is how we simplified the network in these increasingly complex environments, right? So what's interesting now with this period of time is networks continue to become more and more complex. You have things like digital transformation, you have things like cloud and multicloud and hybrid cloud. You have things like software-defined networks. Each of them in their own right just makes the wide area that much more complex. >> And more endpoints every day. I think he threw a stat out, another couple hundred million endpoints are coming now. >> Right. >> So it's not ending. >> That's true and in that market transition it gives us a great opportunity because our core value proposition has always been simplifying the networks. Now that's even more essential than ever before. >> One of the critical problems that come out of that, obviously, is the tsunami of endpoints is one, we heard the security threats with encryption is another one. So, the need to instrument seems obvious but also it's almost overbearing, like, what do you do? How do you guys see the core problems that you're attacking? >> Why don't you take that? >> Well I think the big, what we're trying to do at Live Action is simplify the network. That's really at the core of everything we trying to do. And when we talk to our customers we understand from them that most times they might have four or ten different tools. So the first thing we're trying to do is figure out what are the biggest use cases and combine them all into one singular tool. And that's what we're producing at LiveAction, is the ability for you to see your entire network from end to end. East-west and north-south. So, as we take a look at things like the cloud environment, you know, what exactly is that, right? You know, is it north-south, is it east-west? It's all of the above. And what we're trying to do at LiveAction is have a Full Stack application that can basically provide visibility and analytics so you can understand all of it in one place. >> So any vector, no matter what it is. I mean, surely that makes sense with the perimeter gone. >> Yes. >> Security certainly has to have that baseline. >> Right. >> We'll give you a good example of that, is now with the whole software-defined network in what we're doing with SD Access, for example, but now we're going back into the data center and there's these complex terms around the overlay network and underlay network and logical and physical and it's becoming incredibly complex. We give the ability to actually see the flows, like, through those complex fabrics and that's an essential toolkit now because you need to be able to find out when there's an issue, where's that coming from, right? That is the, what is the source of that issue? How quickly can you identify that and how quickly can you then remediate it? >> Before you get there I want to follow up on that because one of the focus was here in DevOps side, is automation. If you can't see it, how do you know to automate it? >> Right. >> Does that come into the dialogue or is that? >> That is the dialogue for us here, so, we provide situational awareness. We hope for our end users to understand what's happening across their networks realtime. And then, you know, we work with Cisco, for example, hand in hand on the intent based network. So, being able to provide insights for, you know, the next generation of the products to be able to actually take action. >> Yeah, one of the things we've been watching in the networking space for many years is the use of analytics. And you recently made an acquisition that really ties into that space. Why don't you give us, what led to the acquisition? >> We did, so we had news on Friday and to be fair, I mean, Darren's been leading this charge for us for quite some time because we've been a NetFlow based solution for a long period of time, meaning that we can provide visualization for the devices that we have integrations with, essentially. There's a lot of devices that don't have NetFlow. So we couldn't actually capture them into our visualization engine. So what we did on Friday is we announced the acquisition of Savius, and Savvius is a packet capture and inspection technology company. Been around a long time, some very famous products with Omnipeek and Omnipliance, for example, that are consumed by thousands of customers. And now we're able to, with that appliance, actually tap into all sorts of devices, and suddenly propagate all of that into our visualization engine. So it opens up a dramatically larger and restful opportunity for us and we're kind of defining this to be the next generation of networks and ports management because no one else is doing this visualization across that scope of devices like we are. >> Your observation space is massive now. >> It is. >> Yeah, Darren, I wonder if you'd follow up that 'cause one of the big questions I had coming in to this is, if I'm a networking person, what about all that networking that I don't control anymore that I'm on the hook for it. So, you know, we actually, the network here went down even for a few minutes and we're like, we're here at Cisco Live with, you know, probably the largest single concentration of network people and wireless experts and the like, so, yeah. >> Yeah, so one of the things that we're trying to do now is we're trying to capture all data from basically all endpoints. Whether it be a client to a server, a VM container, doesn't matter what it is. We wanna see it all, we wanna get it from the granular, most granular packet level all the way up, but take all of that data and make it simple for people to understand. You put it on a simple UI, understand a very simple workflow so that they can automatically associate problem or good network behaviors right there on screen without having to, you know, go through the 5,000 page Cisco manual and really understand what exactly is going on. >> Okay. >> I think what's important about that is how quickly can you identify the source of the issue? That's really where we come into play. We talk a lot, even these days, about MTTR, meantime to resolution, that continues to be an essential, kind of, metric that people measure. But what's more important to that even is the initial diagnostic. So, is it the network? Is it, you know, something at the edge of the network? Is it the service provider? You know, where in the network does this happen? And by being able to provide that essential information to the first point of contact it really does help extradite and accelerate the entire process. >> Huge acceleration. Darren, I wanna ask you a point about, sorry Stu, to interrupt but on the acquisition, help the customers that you had on one side understand the benefits of the NetFlow integrations and the NetFlow customers understand the new benefits. What is the customer's orientation? What should they do, I mean, how should they understand the new Live Action? >> Yeah, so what we've added on is the ability to diagnose at a significantly deeper level. So, one of the things LiveAction has always been really good at is voice and video, but we do it at a NetFlow level. So, the problem is, when we try to get down to the very granular level, you know, what exactly is going on? Where is it happening? We were blind to that, frankly. Now, with the packet capture technology we can actually go all the way down and capture down to the millisecond and be able to look back over time and understand exactly where the problem occurred. And that allows our users to actually go in and fix it once and for all. >> And what are they solving with that problem? More point problems, solution resolution? Routing, policy, where does the value live? >> It's all of it, it's all of it. Understand where the packets are dropped. Understand we get down to deep packet inspection, so understanding applications and users and who really is having the problem and why. >> Fake news, maybe? Gonna help us identify fake news out there? >> (laughs) Um, I hadn't thought about that yet. >> And the Russian packet. (laughs) (laughing) >> We've been talking in the network the surface area has continued to grow as we push out to the edge, we push out to SAS, push out to public clouds. How's that impacting you and your customers? >> It's, so, we're definitely trying to stay ahead of that with a few things that we've done recently. So, one of them is, for example, we now have an agent that we can deploy onto servers and workstations in mass quantities so you can now get those, kind of, those elements to be fed into your visualization network as well. We also have the ability to deploy that type of concept into the cloud and into SAS applications so we can then get a pulse coming from them. And so we're starting to correlate all of that together into the same type of workflow. >> Yep. >> Guys, take a minute to talk about your relationship with Cisco. Obviously we're here at Cisco Live, their show, they've got their priorities pretty laid out, they've got a lot of work to do and we heard the CEO talk about some of the pressure they're under with the security alone. I mean, they're running huge networks, networks are changing, what are you guys doing next now that you've got your acquisition papered up and you gotta do some, you know, quick integrations and roll out the integrations. How are you taking that to the next level with Cisco? What are some of the things on your radar, on your horizon, that you can share? >> Well, I think we work so closely with Cisco and the Cisco Enterprise networking team that we're often, you know, looking ahead of the curb as far as where we want to develop and invest in next. For example, you see that with the way we're prototyping the SD Access and Cat9k management. So, we did that in Barcelona, actually, about six months ago. So we were the first out with that. We're doing the exact same thing now with DNA Center and with integration with DNA Center. So, they're able to, like, talk about how LiveAction as a third party is integrating into their framework and extending that framework out for a lot of new innovation. >> Your strategy is to go deep with Cisco. You go down as deep as you can, get everyone geared out on the engineering side. You're nodding your head, yeah. >> Absolutely, that's been our strategy since day one. It's been an awesome partnership for us. I think we've been able to bring, you know, a different point of view and also provide validation, you know, a third party perspective for the end user to understand and have confidence on what exactly the network is doing. >> You know, I get this all the time, entrepreneurs in Silicone Valley always ask me about Cisco and Cisco's had a sustained track record of letting partners take big white spaces. To them it's a white space, to a company it's a, you know, it's an IPO potential, so this is a Cisco thing, talk about that dynamic, 'cause you guys seem to be really solving a big problem and they're happy with it. >> Oh, I think what we've, to your point about white space, I think what LiveAction has been able to really effectively do is be a strong partner to complement the solution that Cisco is already putting out there. So as Brooks had mentioned, you know, in our past we worked very closely with the Cisco Prime team and we brought in things like visualization, for example, quality of service configuration, and as the infrastructure began to, I guess, change over time, you know, through ILAN and now into Viptela, you know, we bring the same kind of ideas. We bring the same posture to the party, if you will, meaning that we try to make it, we try to understand what Cisco Product Management is doing and bring what we do best, the situation awareness, visibility, action ability to that. >> Alright, one of my final questions is, bumper sticker the bottom line for your customers. With the acquisition on Friday, with what you guys going on at Cisco, what's the bottom line for your customers? What are they gonna see? What's the immediate headline for the customer? >> So we've, you know, we've adopted this tagline of defining the next generation of network management, and we think we have a very unique position in defining where that market is going now with the acquisition of Savvius and what we're doing with the ability to visualize all of these different elements. There really isn't anybody out there that's doing anything close to that as far as how we're making it easy to manage increasingly complex networks. It's as simple as that, you know, we've had great conversations here already with many of some of the largest companies in the world and what they're looking for is, I need help, you know, I need help to simplify, right? >> And run at a high level. >> That's right, to kind of deliver the service levels that I'm expected to hold to my, you know, to my Fortune 500 type of enterprise, I need better tools to help me cope with this increasing complexity. >> Alright, Brooks and Darren, I'll put you on the spot with the last question. We're at day one of Cisco Live, what's they big story you see emerging? I know it's day one, we've got two more days, but you can almost see the smoke screen going, the signal's there, what is the top story coming out of Cisco Live 2018, in your opinion? >> I still see software-defined WAN as being massive. I think that, I think I stole his answer. (laughs) But, you know, it's been a topic for such a long time but now we're seeing the implementations happen and it's so exciting because, you know, it's actually bringing real change to networking, something we haven't seen in 10 plus years. >> What's different about SD WAN than the promises were, say, five years ago? That's happening now? >> Well I think now people are actually monetizing them. So now it's enterprise ready, I think Cisco led the whole industry a step forward with the acquisition of Viptela and increased, kind of, the pace of that, of the maturity of those offerings. And now that it's six months in they're being adopted at scale, you have a lot of reference cases now that people are using it, they're getting, deriving the monetary benefit from it, you know, they're taking a step into software-defined and we're kind of in that mainstream adoption phase, is what I would say right now. >> Thanks so much for sharing, great commentary. Congratulations on the success, the new acquisition and the continued integration deep with Cisco. >> Thank you. >> You know, good stuff pays off. Of course, we're here with all the live action coverage. Both LiveAction company and also the live Cube action here at Cisco Live 2018 here. Stay with us, three days of wall-to-wall coverage. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. We'll be right back after this short break. >> Thank you, gentlemen.