>> Announcer: Live from Vancouver, Canada, its theCUBE! Covering OpenStack Summit North America 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat, the OpenStack foundation, and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman, and you're watching theCUBE's live coverage of OpenStack Summit 2018, in Vancouver. My co-host John Troyer is here, happy to welcome back to the program, Mark Baker who's a Product Manager with Canonical. Mark, how's the show treating you so far? >> Show's been going very well. So, we've seen people coming to us on the show floor, coming to the sessions. We're seeing really interesting building, scalable production Clouds, and so and coupling that with all the container technologies and a lot of other complimentary technology by machine-learning. So, a lot of the discussion is, can we build Cloud? But also, much more about the workloads and the kind of integration with, parallel if you like, or adjoining technologies. >> Great, want to talk about the customers really, Mark. So as you said, you've been to a few of these shows, we've been to a few of these also and, the makeup of the attendees has changed a bit, one of the things I heard, it is 2X the number of Cloud architects, with their title, compared just to last year, little bit of a broadening into the scope, what do you hear from customers, what brings them here, what's exciting them, in this environment? >> So, I mean yes certainly Cloud architects, and at Canonical we regularly talk to Cloud architects, because architecture with the Cloud is something that evolves, it's not something that's pinned. As workloads evolve, and new technologies come along you need to be able to evolve that architecture, and therefore people that understand that are important. I think it's also noticeable, I'm sat here wearing my blazer, is there's noticeable seeing quite a few people round the show, wearing blazers. So, you go back a couple years ago, or even a year or so ago, it was very much a sort of developer centric type of event. We're seeing more business conversations now, and even discussing things such as money, and economics, which weren't necessarily conversations that we were going too heavily in a couple of years ago. >> There's still a bunch of the hoodies set here, lots of cool T-shirts and, yeah, ironic facial hair and the like, so, maybe from your standpoint at Canonical, talk a little bit about those constituencies of who to sell with. We've got the operators, you've got the developers, you've got the C suite, I'm sure the answer is yes, but who you find yourself maybe, help walk us through some of those roles that you're talking to, some of the biggest concerns they're having and how you're helping them. >> So in most enterprises that we go and talk to we're typically talking to, initially operations, because they know that they need to be able to ride services to, Cloud services, and container services, to their customers internally, or within the business, and they're looking at okay how can we operate this, how can we secure it, how can we scale it, in smart ways, they're looking for our help and assistance doing that. Very soon after that we'll need to go and talk to developers, or engage line of business developers, primarily because we need to, this represents change to them, moving into a Cloud or, moving their applications to containers represents change, and we want to get them onboarded into this environment and to start to begin that change as quickly as possible. The Cloud, to succeed, it needs to have many running workloads on it, and so engaging with the developers, to take advantage of the capabilities the platform can provide is really important. We'd love to be able to go and talk to at that sea level, and we are starting to have more of those conversations, but I think the type of infrastructure, the OpenStack and container technologies provides, it's the initial interest is very much coming from those operators, from the architects, and from the developers. >> Well lets talk about operators for a minute, I mean, once upon a time there was a tribe of people called sisbits, they were kind of surly, and they took care of things like Linux, right, and now, out of that Linux framework, there's a huge set of technologies, that have grown all based on Linux, on all that Canonical works with, and there's a new set of skills required. Can you talk a little bit about what the new operator needs to know, and how you can help train people and Canonical help train people that you're assistant men working with Linux, what different things do I need to care about now in the Cloud management world, Cloud operator world? >> Yeah sure so, you're right, it used to be relatively simple, and you would run a VM or you'd run an application on top of bare metal and, there'd be certain things you'd need to be able to tweak to scale it and up the performance, but, we're running an, as we say, more agile infrastructure, so whether it's Cloud or containers or combinations of both, there are very many different variables, and how an application's able to take advantage of the storage or the capabilities that a platform provides, there's many different nobs and dials that you can turn. We tend to be advising right now, people on bringing in services such as CICD, Continuous Integration Continuous Deployment, so that they can start to adopt some of these newer ways of working. Operators now need to, they need to be much more aware of okay, what the workload characteristics are, and how that might behave on a hyper vise, or how it might behave within a containerized environment. I just came out of a conversation with a customer for example, who was asking detailed questions about storage performance, right? They have applications that require certain levels of storage performance and different types of storage that we can bring to bare, in conjunction with an OpenStack, which is going to be the appropriate one, and how do they segment them and so, it's definitely become more complex, but I think, through collaboration events like this, we're actually getting much better at being able to provide them with the information and the choices they need to make. >> Mark, speak to us a little bit about the community. OpenStack started heavy users in the community, contributed the community, how do you see that dynamic playing out today? >> Well there's still lots of contribution coming into OpenStack, and that's good to see. We are starting to see, as OpenStack has matured, as the market place has matured, some of the focus no longer being purely on contributing code, but now sharing experiences around operations, and that's starting to move into this area of people use this phrase, "Infrastructure as code", to be able to access infrastructure programmatically. I think we're seeing collaboration now in the OpenStack community and adjacent communities around collaborating on the operations, especially when those operations themselves are encapsulated in code. So, very simple thing, sounds simple, not necessarily easy to do but, being able to upgrade, update and place, how you would sort of suspend the system whilst you perform some maintenance and evacuating the workloads and bring them back in and those kinds of very common tasks for Cloud operators. We saw, even just a few years ago, how operators would each have their own way of doing it, their own preferred methods, and this was generally not so efficient so, collaborating on those and sharing best practices is one of the really interesting things to see within this community today. >> John: Sure, sure, I mean you, I think the evolution goes, everybody then starts to write scripts, which you all write scripts in your own way, and eventually you have to come up with a framework. And you all have developed a couple different frameworks in terms of installation and upgrades and things like that. >> Absolutely, and one of the things that once the customer start to understand that we've developed a framework around operations, those operations are encapsulated within code, and it means that if we have a customer, dodgy telecom, for example one of our customers that is understandably very security conscious, 'cause they run the telco network, has best practices around the security of their Cloud, and we're able, when they start to make recommendations or updates to that, we're able to take those and share them with a broad audience, and get that sort of collaborative spirit around what's the best way to be able to do this. >> So, you mentioned security there, any other kind of key pinpoints, what are you hearing out in the market place, is GDPR something that a lot of your customers are beaten on you and, what's the Canonical decision there? >> Yeah, absolutely, so, GDPR has been a real catalyst for people to look at areas for security that they probably meant to get round to at some point but never had, so. >> Some people said it's the Y2K of this generation >> Yes, exactly, definitely a forcing function. And so one of the areas we've seen a lot of activity around and solely we've committed resources to it within the last couple of months has been around encryption of data at rest. So, obviously in the Cloud, you're going to have a lot of data that's there with the relevant workloads, and some of that regulations in GDPR regulation is about what happens if somebody removes a disk from the server, does that mean that they have access to the data? As we start looking at things such as Edge Cloud, so very many Clouds close to the customer or close to the edge, which don't necessarily have the same data center infrastructure around them, how do we secure the data there, right? So, encryption of data, but doing it in a way that doesn't require to manually typed passwords in to be able to access them all of the time, is not a simple problem and, we've spent quite a few resources, working out how do we address that, how can we do it in a way that's going to allow it to be dealt with economically, and scalably. >> There's been a lot of talk about open infrastructure in general here at the show, and OpenStack obviously is designed to manage infrastructure, but we've already talked about containers here, with you in this segment, there's a lot of container news, Kubernetes news, OpenDev Summit going on at the same time, so how do you as a Product Manager, you can't just be worried about one part of the stack, how do you and your team worry about that integration and that unified platform and bring together these interactions will all these different OpenSource projects? >> Oh yes, for sure, and that's, it certainly is one of the things Canonical has been cognoscente on and focusing on, or working on for quite a long time is a Linux distribution at it's heart is really the integration of very many different components, from a kernel, and libraries, and pilots and all the various other pieces that go with that. So, understanding how these components plug together, whether it's OpenStack, with containers, and open V switch for the networking, and set for storage for example, that's very much part of what we've been doing. We're learning with customers as we go, very much, that how they want to plug these things together with Kubernetes, Kubernetes running alongside OpenStack, Kubernetes running on top of OpenStack, OpenStack even running on Kubernetes, some of them are looking at, so understanding how they, people want to be able to plug technologies together, and we'd standardized very much on sort of reference architectures of combination of OpenStack plus Kubernetes as a really simple example, but then as part of our QA process, testing process, all this reference architectures that we build with hardware partners and other partners too, is ensuring that we're able to deliver that as a stand-alone product as required, but also as effectively solutions together, that are fully integrated, fully supportable and they're going to deliver the capability that the customer needs. >> First of all, the OpenStack on top of Kubernetes, really? Is that something you'd recommend to customers or? Or is it a specific use case for that? >> It's not something that we recommend today. So, there's been certainly a lot of discussion in the OpenStack community around the control plane, and what's the best way to deliver the control plane. Canonical made a very strategic or specific choice several years ago that actually, containerizing the services is the right way to do this, so we containerized basically all of the control plane services apart from Neutron Gateway which would be a little tricky to do that but, so we containerized all of those services, and it gives us flexibility when we want to perform updates and migrate services between different systems, for example. How do you manage those containerized services though? There's lots of diversity of opinion. Some people want to be able to do that with Kubernetes, and that's great, then we certainly track those efforts and work with those people, if they're using a (mumbles) or some of our technologies, but I think, it's still yet to be decided, what's the best way to be able to do that. >> So you must, you have an interest in Java as a Product Manager, you always want to productize in general, standardize as much as possible, in the needs communities you have the diversity of opinions, oh I'll take this piece, I'll get rid of the core, I'll do something over here, I'll flip it upside down, how do you balance that, giving customers choice, but making sure you can deliver solid offerings that you can support? >> And so, that's very much it. It's a choice and we can say, look, we can deliver a robust, high performing Cloud, with these reference architectures, we've learned that through experience with customers, and working with our partners. We understand that customers all believe they're special and they all have their own special requirements, often with good valid reason, so, but we'll always try and start from a base, and then say let's start to iterate through that, adding in additional capabilities or, maybe tweaking something for your particular use case if you do that, and see how it impacts the Cloud. Because, for us to be successful, us, the OpenStack community to be successful, we need to ensure that those Clouds can live and breathe and evolve over time, and if they're making too many or too heavy customization of that Cloud, then it can start to impact their ability to do that. So, it's, we'll offer that choice. >> Speaking a little bit on the line of standardized services, I'm really intrigued by managed OpenStack, from Canonical. Can you talk a little about what customers it's right for, and when it comes into the conversation and then where in the lifecycle, 'cause I guess then it can also eventually go as as the control container back over to the customers when they don't, when they're finished with managed. >> Absolutely, so we started providing what we call boot stack, as fully managed OpenStack service, primarily to address the skills gap within the OpenStack community. So, we saw a lot of companies interested in deploying OpenStack, a lot of enterprises looking for OpenStack, but they couldn't find the talent, or the people with the experience of deploying a managing OverStack. Just, there weren't the people around, right? Hiring was hard. So, and that was becoming a blocker for us to be able to deliver Clouds to those customers, so we started to offer a managed service, we had a lot of the reference architectures and best practices pretty well nailed down, but it was a facilitator for them to get up and running with the Cloud and there's a point where they, that they became comfortable operating it, managing themselves, hand control back. We've seen, that is a very popular model, and that period where they're having us manage it, can be six months or 12 months or 18 months, but the customers know that they have the reassurance that they can take it back, control and house, they can operate it themselves, and they can manage their own environment, they become self sufficient, but they're not doing that from day one. We're holding their hand, and taking them along that path. So, that's been a very popular offer. >> Mark Baker, really appreciate you giving us an update on really the broad spectrum of customer use cases and all the updates from Canonical. For John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman. Back with more coverage here from the OpenStack Summit 2018, in Vancouver. Thanks for watching theCUBE. (electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live from Vancouver, Canada. It's the Cube. Covering OpenStack Summit, North America, 2018. Brought to you by Redhat, the OpenStack foundation and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to the Cube. I'm Stu Miniman with my co-host John Troyer, and your watching the Cube, the worldwide leader in tech coverage. Happy to welcome back back to the program, Arturo Suarez, who is with Canonical, program director. Haven't have him on for a couple of hours, Arturo, thanks for joining me again. >> Thanks for having me. >> Alright and David Safaii who is the CEO of Trilio Data. We introduced your company to our community last year at the show in our backyard in Boston, so, thanks for joining us here in beautiful Vancouver. >> Thanks for having me again, good to see ya. >> Alright so, David, let's start with you. It's you know, a year since we talked to you, you know data management, absolutely, you know, such a hot space. Bring us into that update as to your company, what's happening in OpenStack and lets get into it from there. >> Sure. It's been an exciting year since I seen you last, you know. I think part of it's been the evolution and the maturity of this ecosystem that we're seeing. More business units are now moving production workloads into this environment. So the call to Trilio has really taken place. A lot of the times your seeing these cloud teams having to scramble to find the proper data protection solution. Trilio being a cloud native backup solution, you know, for this environment, its just a logical selection. >> Yeah, its one of those things I scratch my head, maybe you can explain to me, is, remember back in I was like, when we did virtualization, it was like took a little while before we had a good backup, you know, solution for there. When we go to cloud its like, wait, oh wait, lets not forget that there are things like security and backup. Why does it take a little bit while for that to kind of catch up into the market and have good solutions? >> So if you think about it this way, when people start this journey, right, the initial intent a lot of the time is to have some stateless workloads. We know that's not the case. Perception and reality. And your going to see it in the container market as well. So that's kind of the evolution that you see, that's kind of the draw that we see. >> Okay, Arturo, explain to us how Canonical fits. >> So, obviously Canonical powers more OpenStack than anyone else does. So OpenStack foundation survey would like to say it. But that's a fact, that's what I'll write. So, we're happy to partner with Trilio. We've always been very keep to accommodate the ecosystem in our story. Trilio vault matches very well our idea of having better economics as well for the data center. And it opens up OpenStack, not only for the original goal of OpenStack, like the hyper scalers or the scale out applications, right, which are cloud native if you want and are born on OpenStack. And OpenStack is born for them right, for that type of application. But now it opens that to a wide range of existing, I wouldn't call it legacy, but, you know what I mean like old applications that are really not going to be refreshed, you know. You'll only refresh that many applications year after year. 10% of your applications, 15% if you have a good devops team. Those still are suffering lock in from being in that virtualization world, or not even there, right. And with OpenStack and the addition of Trilio as a backup DR solution, just somebody provide what a pet VM needs right. So somebody opens up to a large real state of a data center to be accommodated in OpenStack seamlessly. >> It's great, Chris, here at OpenStack Summit this year, kind of the customers your seeing, someone said to me the other day that, you know the people here this year are people with mortgage to pay. And they meant that in a complimentary way, in that they're not like the cloud astronauts or they're not arguing about the philosophy of what is a true cloud. They actually have business to do. So I don't know, your talking about some of what your seeing here at this show and you know the kinds of people or maybe, you know, who are the folks that are using or kind of folks that are using Trilio today? >> Yeah and I think the conversation has been, the high quality conversations, higher caliber conversation where its a lot of day two conversations that have taken place, so, it's been engaging. People need to act, they need to move. They've got these fabulous clouds that's slicing and dicing, they're expanding in every which way possible. Now they say, alright, we have to codify this. You know the journey to the cloud doesn't have to be painful. And that's one of the great things that Canonicals done well, right. Build, operate, manage - here's your cloud, we're going to stand it up, you know, it's everything you need. Now with Trilio its not "Can I add back up to it?", like fries, it's just not like that. It's adding data protection to codify that and again that's why we're seeing these people start, are coming. They're asking that kind of, they're asking that question. >> Are you mostly talking to folks over in the enterprise space? I mean with OpenStack right, a lot of the conversations in the carrier space, they have some slightly different needs. Or how is that working for you? >> No, it's broadened. I'd say our customer base is everything from manufacturing to receiving financial services all over the world, adopt OpenStack. So, again it goes to the testament of adopting and building much easier than every before and the economics are big benefit. >> In terms of building on top of OpenStack or you know so directly with the APIs. And OpenStack has a number of components all with APIs and component, so how is that relationship been working with Canonical and the state of both Canonical's OpenStack as well as the standard, you know, getting used to the standard parts of the OpenStack stack. >> Yeah so we certify ourselves across the distribution, but you know, part of this is a seamless integration through leveraging juju charms for example. The lifecycle management of that cloud. So whether your going through an upgrade process or staying up a new cloud, Trilio just fits hand and glove with Canonical. >> Yeah at the end of the day APIs are APIs, OpenStack are OpenStack, right. That is very well defined. It's how you build it. When you build it to just take a picture of it and have an OpenStack up and running, or, when you build it to have an OpenStack that's going to be in your data center for ten years, for 20 years, right, that is a credible data center right. So that is our main difference. The OpenStack and the end of the day, the API is just consumable just for us as well as for the other guys, its exactly the same API. We don't modify, not everybody, right, but we do not modify anything from OpenStack. It's pure appstring OpenStack, right, there's no real difference there. >> Okay, what about I think service providers would be key market for this, how does that play in for both of you? >> I mean the service provider market of course is a big adapter of OpenStack and then now your seeing also with NFV environment, the rapid adoption there. It's been an important add to the OpenStack cloud if you think about how do I recover my configurations in that environment, so. >> Exactly and we mentioned before like right, the expansive real estate even in the world of service providers when you move out of the core, right, and they're challenging SLAs, right. So DR is effectively and that data protection as well because the VNFs that their running are effectively managing data that is prone to be protected, specially you know, in countries in Europe for instance, with the GDPR etc., you really need to have accountability of what data is in your data center without, you know, taking into account the economics of having an extra data center there, right. So the DR and data protection elements are key to the cloud strategy of service providers, right. >> What are folks looking at is cross cloud strategies and backup. Like what is the target right, I'm assuming either, cross data center or also up to the public cloud. How are people looking at that? Either one. >> So we see it, as far as the backend store of the target, we really have certified ourselves across any backup target. Within Canonical they're using self storage. If they added benefit of geo replication, right, so the DR story starts to evolve there. So site goes down, you have geo replication, you have Trilio there to spin backup that other site back up again. Relative to the public cloud, you know, as the hybrid world continuously evolves, you know, we're ready for that. We have qualified against S3 for example. But no ones banging down the door just at this moment. I think a lot of people just need to get the blocking and tackling done and leverage really the assets that they have, to make the most out of it, get the ROI there. And then we'll see if the demand evolves. >> So the beauty is to have the choice right, the freedom of choice. Which is what some of the private infrastructure software doesn't allow you to do. Like this is a one thing you can eat today, right. So that freedom of choice, whether you want to put that in a public cloud, if it's security compliant and what not, or you want to have that in another region or replicated somewhere else, another storage backend that is colder and cheaper and you know, so. That freedom of choice is a great asset. >> Arturo, what are you looking forward to in terms of the evolution of OpenStack storage and data capabilities? >> So, OpenStack is already opened up for absolutely everything, right. Storage in fact in OpenStack was, this is my 15th OpenStack, so I've been following it from the very very beginning right. So the storage in OpenStack is actually was the project that was mature first... >> Well I didn't want to start the question off with well, OpenStack storage is kind of done right. But... >> But it is right. At the end of the day when you look at all the existing, more legacy type of a storage filers, already have an integration with OpenStack. OpenStack made a turn few years ago, again, I'm telling my old stories of OpenStack, but when we started doing Cinder. And the Cinder drivers would apply in that to Neutron and the Neutron plugins now for network. But the Cinder drivers actually are a very easy way to plug in literally any other storage solution that you might find out there. And the beauty of it is that you can, you don't have to choose one. You can have many storage back ends in your data center right. So that is there. And then it will be, as we talked before, it be just a decision on the per use cases. Canonical will be part of that. Canonical will have a solution ready for each of those use cases by enabling partners. And obviously there will be some of them that will be more adequate to with the compliance and security terms, right. >> David, I'd love you to follow up on that. So there is the companies that have gone through the alphabet from A through Queens, and have the bumps and bruises. What's it like being a startup, getting into the ecosystem you know more recently. What's the opportunities? >> Yeah, I mean, I think for us the customers are at various points in their journeys right. So we have be able to qualify whether your kilo or your on queens. And we have to be able to deliver a service that you know is rock solid. So that's an onus on us. To deliver all that, make sure it's bullet proof. So it takes a lot of work. But, the community's been great to work with, the customers view us as partners. And they're willing to work with you, which has been fantastic, you know. >> Okay. Want to give you both a final take aways from the event. David you want to start? >> Sure. So as I was saying before I think the conversations been high caliber conversations, right. It's been interesting for us, because if you think about back up and DR, data protection is actually a much broader term and I think it evolves. And I think we're on a great spot for it to evolve even further. We take a workload, a point in time, right, if the conversation becomes about workload mobility inside your cloud, I can move it to any part, and that's some of the conversations that we've had using back up for resource management, right, I want to move tenants from one availability zone to another availability zone. Or I'm standing up a new cloud. That's just part of the by product of backup and recovery. One of the things that we're actually, we're exploring and we'll give you guys a nice showcase of this in Berlin is that we'll be running scanners through our back ups. Doing more with points in time, to give your tenants and your customers the ability to go back to the best last known state, you know it's clean. All the patches, the configurations, the anti-virus type stuff. So this is going to be a great evolution it's going to be a great journey. Having the ability of being a startup gives us the flexibility and we can be nimble, where a legacy data protection has 30 year old code and they don't have that ability. So, it's been great. >> So as you know, following up on what David said, right, the flexibility of having a data protection solution finally on OpenStack, being able to compare and win against all the private cloud infrastructure is a great asset. The fact that OpenStack now you see is ready for prime because it gets less media attention its not shiny anymore it's not that interesting to talk about OpenStack. But everyone needs an OpenStack solution, right. The ecosystem landscape where come from the digital wars back in the day, we're not wasting time right there right. So it's more of a filling a need that OpenStack opens up for. And Trilio has done that very well in the data protection domain. >> It's been a really great relationship. >> Alright, David Safaii, Arturo Suarez, thank you so much for joining us again. And check out thecube.net. If you go to the site, not only can you search by events and by guest but if you put in keyword, for example, getting ready for this event, I typed OpenStack in and there were hundreds of interviews that we've done over the years, not only at this OpenStack summit, but many other shows that have talked about it. Go find them, poke around, you know, so much content to be able to dig in. For John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman, back with a lot more coverage here at OpenStack Summit 2018 in Vancouver. Thanks for watching the Cube. (Background music)

>> Announcer: Live from Vancouver, Canada it's theCUBE, covering OpenStack Summit North America 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat, the OpenStack foundation, and its Ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman and my cohost John Troyer and you're watching theCUBE's coverage of OpenStack Summit 2018 here in Vancouver. Happy to welcome first-time guest Roland Cabana who is a DevOps Manager at Vault Systems out of Australia, but you come from a little bit more local. Thanks for joining us Roland. >> Thank you, thanks for having me. Yes, I'm actually born and raised in Vancouver, I moved to Australia a couple years ago. I realized the potential in Australian cloud providers, and I've been there ever since. >> Alright, so one of the big things we talk about here at OpenStack of course is, you know, do people really build clouds with this stuff, where does it fit, how is it doing, so a nice lead-in to what does Vault Systems do for the people who aren't aware. >> Definitely, so yes, we do build cloud, a cloud, or many clouds, actually. And Vault Systems provides cloud services infrastructure service to Australian Government. We do that because we are a certified cloud. We are certified to handle unclassified DLM data, and protected data. And what that means is the sensitive information that is gathered for the Australian citizens, and anything to do with big user-space data is actually secured with certain controls set up by the Australian Government. The Australian Government body around this is called ASD, the Australian Signals Directorate, and they release a document called the ISM. And this document actually outlines 1,088 plus controls that dictate how a cloud should operate, how data should be handled inside of Australia. >> Just to step back for a second, I took a quick look at your website, it's not like you're listed as the government OpenStack cloud there. (Roland laughs) Could you give us, where does OpenStack fit into the overall discussion of the identity of the company, what your ultimate end-users think about how they're doing, help us kind of understand where this fits. >> Yeah, for sure, and I mean the journey started long ago when we, actually our CEO, Rupert Taylor-Price, set out to handle a lot of government information, and tried to find this cloud provider that could handle it in the prescribed way that the Australian Signals Directorate needed to handle. So, he went to different vendors, different cloud platforms, and found out that you couldn't actually meet all the controls in this document using a proprietary cloud or using a proprietary platform to plot out your bare-metal hardware. So, eventually he found OpenStack and saw that there was a great opportunity to massage the code and change it, so that it would comply 100% to the Australian Signals Directorate. >> Alright, so the keynote this morning were talking about people that build, people that operate, you've got DevOps in your title, tell us a little about your role in working with OpenStack, specifically, in broader scope of your-- >> For sure, for sure, so in Vault Systems I'm the DevOps Manager, and so what I do, we run through a lot of tests in terms of our infrastructure. So, complying to those controls I had mentioned earlier, going through the rigmarole of making sure that all the different services that are provided on our platform comply to those specific standards, the specific use cases. So, as a DevOps Manger, I handle a lot of the pipelining in terms of where the code goes. I handle a lot of the logistics and operations. And so it actually extends beyond just operation and development, it actually extends into our policies. And so marrying all that stuff together is pretty much my role day-to-day. I have a leg in the infrastructure team with the engineering and I also have a leg in with sort of the solutions architects and how they get feedback from different customers in terms of what we need and how would we architect that so it's safe and secure for government. >> Roland, so since one of your parts of your remit is compliance, would you say that you're DevSecOps? Do you like that one or not? >> Well I guess there's a few more buzzwords, and there's a few more roles I can throw in there but yeah, I guess yes. DevSecOps there's a strong security posture that Vault holds, and we hold it to a higher standard than a lot of the other incumbents or a lot of platform providers, because we are actually very sensitive about how we handle this information for government. So, security's a big portion of it, and I think the company culture internally is actually centered around how we handle the security. A good example of this is, you know, internally we actually have controls about printing, you know, most modern companies today, they print pages, and you know it's an eco thing. It's an eco thing for us too, but at the same time there are controls around printed documents, and how sensitive those things are. And so, our position in the company is if that control exists because Australian Government decides that that's a sensitive matter, let's adopt that in our entire internal ecosystem. >> There was a lot of talk this morning at the keynote both about upgrades, and I'm blanking on the name of the new feature, but also about Zuul and about upgrading OpenStack. You guys are a full Upstream, OpenStack expert cloud provider. How do you deal with upgrades, and what do you think the state of the OpenStack community is in terms of kind of upgrades, and maintenance, and day two kind of stuff? >> Well I'll tell you the truth, the upgrade path for OpenStack is actually quite difficult. I mean, there's a lot of moving parts, a lot of components that you have to be very specific in terms of how you upgrade to the next level. If you're not keeping in step of the next releases, you may fall behind and you can't upgrade, you know, Keystone from a Liberty all the way up to Alcatel, right? You're basically stuck there. And so what we do is we try to figure out what the government needs, what are the features that are required. And, you know, it's also a conversation piece with government, because we don't have certain features in this particular release of OpenStack, it doesn't mean we're not going to support it. We're not going to move to the next version just because it's available, right? There's a lot of security involved in fusing our controls inside our distribution of OpenStack. I guess you can call it a distribution, on our build of OpenStack. But it's all based on a conversation that we start with the government. So, you know, if they need VGPUs for some reason, right, with the Queens release that's coming out, that's a conversation we're starting. And we will build into that functionality as we need it. >> So, does that mean that you have different entities with different versions, and if so, how do you manage all of that? >> Well, okay, so yes that's true. We do have different versions where we have a Liberty release, and we have an Alcatel release, which is predominant in our infrastructure. And that's only because we started with the inception of the Liberty release before our certification process. A lot of the things that we work with government for is how do they progress through this cloud maturity model. And, you know, the forklift and shift is actually a problem when you're talking about releases. But when you're talking about containerization, you're talking about Agile Methodologies and things like that, it's less of a reliance on the version because you now have the ability to respawn that same application, migrate the data, and have everything live as you progress through different cloud platforms. And so, as OpenStack matures, this whole idea of the fast forward idea of getting to the next release, because now they have an integration step, or they have a path to the next version even though you're two or three versions behind, because let's face it, most operators will not go to the latest and greatest, because there's a lot of issues you're going to face there. I mean, not that the software is bad, it's just that early adopters will come with early adopter problems. And, you know, you need that userbase. You need those forum conversations to be able to be safe and secure about, you know, whether or not you can handle those kinds of things. And there's no need for our particular users' user space to have those latest and greatest things unless there is an actual request. >> Roland, you are an IAS provider. How are you handling containers, or requests for containers from your customers? >> Yes, containers is a big topic. There's a lot of maturity happening right now with government, in terms of what a container is, for example, what is orchestration with containers, how does my Legacy application forklift and shift to a container? And so, we're handling it in stages, right, because we're working with government in their maturity. We don't do container services on the platform, but what we do is we open-source a lot of code that allows people to deploy, let's say a terraform file, that creates a Docker Host, you know, and we give them examples. A good segue into what we've just launched last week was our Vault Academy, which we are now training 3,000 government public servants on new cloud technologies. We're not talking about how does an OS work, we're talking about infrastructures, code, we're talking about Kubernetes. We're talking about all these cool, fun things, all the way up to function as a service, right? And those kinds of capabilities is what's going to propel government in Australia moving forward in the future. >> You hit on one of my hot buttons here. So functions as a service, do you have serverless deployed in your environment, or is it an education at this point? >> It's an education at this point. Right now we have customers who would like to have that available as a native service in our cloud, but what we do is we concentrate on the controls and the infrastructure as a service platform first and foremost, just to make sure that it's secure and compliant. Everyone has the ability to deploy functions as a service on their platform, or on their accounts, or on their tenancies, and have that available to them through a different set of APIs. >> Great. There's a whole bunch of open-source versions out there. Is that what they're doing? Do you any preference toward the OpenWhisk, or FN, or you know, Fission, all the different versions that are out there? >> I guess, you know, you can sort of like, you know, pick your racehorse in that regard. Because it's still early days, and I think open to us is pretty much what I've been looking at recently, and it's just a discovery stage at this point. There are more mature customers who are coming in, some partners who are championing different technologies, so the great is that we can make sure our platform is secure and they can build on top of it. >> So you brought up security again, one of the areas I wanted to poke at a little bit is your network. So, it being an IS provider, networking's critical, what are you doing from a networking standpoint is micro-segmentation part of your environment? >> Definitely. So natively to build in our cloud, the functions that we build in our cloud are all around security, obviously. Micro-segmentation's a big part of that, training people in terms of how micro-segmentation works from a forklift and shift perspective. And the network connectivity we have with the government is also a part of this whole model, right? And so, we use technologies like Mellanox, 400G fabric. We're BGP internally, so we're routing through the host, or routing to the host, and we have this... Well so in Australia there's this, there's service from the Department of Finance, they create this idea of an icon network. And what it is, is an actually direct media fiber from the department directly to us. And that means, directly to the edge of our cloud and pipes right through into their tenancy. So essentially what happens is, this is true, true hybrid cloud. I'm not talking about going through gateways and stuff, I'm talking about I speed up an instance in the Vault cloud, and I can ping it from my desktop in my agency. Low latency, submillisecond direct fiber link, up to 100g. >> Do you have certain programmability you're doing in your network? I know lots of service providers, they want to play and get in there, they're using, you know, new operating models. >> Yes, I mean, we're using the... I draw a blank. There's a lot of technologies we're using for network, and the Cumulus Networking OS is what we're using. That allows us to bring it in to our automation team, and actually use more of a DevOps tool to sort of create the deployment from a code perspective instead of having a lot of engineers hardcoding things right on the actual production systems. Which allows us to gate a lot of the changes, which is part of the security posture as well. So, we were doing a lot of network offloading on the ConnectX-5 cards in the data center, we're using cumulus networks for bridging, we're working with Neutron to make sure that we have Neutron routers and making sure that that's secure and it's code reviewed. And, you know, there's a lot of moving parts there as well, and I think from a security standpoint and from a network functionality standpoint, we've come to a happy place in terms of providing the fastest network possible, and also the most secure and safe network as possible. >> Roland, you're working directly with the Upstream OpenStack projects, and it sounds like some others as well. You're not working with a vendor who's packaging it for you or supporting it. So that's a lot of responsibility on you and your team, I'm kind of curious how you work with the OpenStack community, and how you've seen the OpenStack community develop over the years. >> Yeah, so I mean we have a lot of talented people in our company who actually OpenStack as a passion, right? This is what they do, this is what they love. They've come from different companies who worked in OpenStack and have contributed a lot actually, to the community. And actually that segues into how we operate inside culturally in our company. Because if we do work with Upstream code, and it doesn't have anything to do with the security compliance of the Australian Signals Directorate in general, we'd like to Upstream that as much as possible and contribute back the code where it seems fit. Obviously, there's vendor mixes and things we have internally, and that's with the Mellanox and Cumulus stuff, but anything else beyond that is usually contributed up. Our team's actually very supportive of each other, we have network specialists, we have storage specialists. And it's a culture of learning, so there's a lot of synchronizations, a lot of synergies inside the company. And I think that's part to do with the people who make up Vault Systems, and that whole camaraderie is actually propagated through our technology as well. >> One of the big themes of the show this year has been broadening out of what's happening. We talked a little bit about containers already, Edge Computing is a big topic here. Either Edge, or some other areas, what are you looking for next from this ecosystem, or new areas that Vault is looking at poking at? >> Well, I mean, a lot of the exciting things for me personally, I guess, I can't talk to Vault in general, but, 'cause there's a lot of engineers who have their own opinions of what they like to see, but with the Queens release with the VGPUs, something I'd like, that all's great, a long-term release cycle with the OpenStack foundation would be great, or the OpenStack platform would be great. And that's just to keep in step with the next releases to make sure that we have the continuity, even though we're missing one release, there's a jump point. >> Can you actually put a point on that, what that means for you. We talked to Mark Collier a little bit about it this morning but what you're looking and why that's important. >> Well, it comes down to user acceptance, right? So, I mean, let's say you have a new feature or a new project that's integrated through OpenStack. And, you know, some people find out that there's these new functions that are available. There's a lot of testing behind-the-scenes that has to happen before that can be vetted and exposed as part of our infrastructure as a service platform. And so, by the time that you get to the point where you have all the checks and balances, and marrying that next to the Australian controls that we have it's one year, two years, or you know, however it might be. And you know by that time we're at the night of the release and so, you know, you do all that work, you want to make sure that you're not doing that work and refactoring it for the next release when you're ready to go live. And so, having that long-term release is actually what I'm really keen about. Having that point of, that jump point to the latest and greatest. >> Well Roland, I think that's a great point. You know, it used to be we were on the 18 month cycle, OpenStack was more like a six month cycle, so I absolutely understand why this is important that I don't want to be tied to a release when I want to get a new function. >> John: That's right. >> Roland Cabana, thank you the insight into Vault Systems and congrats on all the progress you have made. So for John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman. Back here with lots more coverage from the OpenStack Summit 2018 in Vancouver, thanks for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Austin, Texas. It's theCUBE, covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon 2017. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Linux Foundation, and theCUBE's ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone. Welcome back to theCUBE's exclusive coverage, here live in Austin, Texas for KubeCon and CloudNativeCon. I'm John Furrier, the co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media with my co-host Stu Miniman, Next is Nigel Poulten, who's the author of the Kubernetes book, also container guru, trainer, been in the business for a long time in the community. Great to have you on for our intro. >> Thank you >> Stu, keynote, let's get down to it. What was the big highlights? >> Yeah, well, first of all John, we've officially entered KubeCon Days here. So CloudNativeCon was yesterday. We've got two more days of KubeCon. Kelsey Hightower, you know, we had him on theCUBE yesterday. Phenomenal speaker, everybody's looking forward to him. Lines to talk to him. Made sure that there was a standing ovation before and after his. Very demo heavy. I mean, you know, this group loves it. There were a lot of, you know, great pithy lines. Arguments over, you know, which is the best language, which is the best way to do things? Knocking on things like YAML. So, it was definitely a fun, geeky discussion. I'm a big Game of Thrones fan. So I loved to see season seven delivered on Kubernetes. >> What was the summary of the keynote? What was the take? >> So I think from my perspective, the summary was Kubernetes is boring. Which translates to us generally, as in it's maturing. It's something that you might want to be able to trust in your production environment, if you're an enterprise. I mean, look, as a technology guy we always think we like to know the details, the weeds. And we like to play with YAML and stuff like that. But at the end of the day, business is down and developers tend not to want to. They want a smooth pipeline. And that's boring, and so boring is good. >> Yeah, and I do want to poke at it a little bit, Nigel, I definitely want your opinion on this, because there are certain technologies we say, "Oh right, it's reached that boring phase", which means it's kind of steady state. Kubernetes is not like One Dot Nine. Coming into the show it was like, how complex it is. Oh my God, there's all these things above and below. Yin gave a really nice keynote showing kind of a layer cake there. >> Yeah. >> I think maybe the Kubernetes layer might be, it's stable enough and used, and people can use it. But this ecosystem by no means is it boring. >> No >> And there's lots of things to make out. What are you seeing? >> Totally, and it's that definition of boring, really. So I would say boring would translate into usable. But you're right, in no way is it boring in any sense. In fact, it's exciting and it's dangerous as well. >> Yeah, and ... >> So I'll give you an example, right. So Kubernetes is massively successful. I think we all grock that at the moment, okay. But it's almost potentially going to be a victim of it's own success. It's always at one of the many summits that was going on before KubeCon and CloudNativeCon started, and it was about networking and there was a bunch of guys here from big carriers and they really want to take this simple networking model that Kubernetes currently has and make it fit their needs, which would make it really complex, dare I say, almost OpenStack Neutron. (laughing) And I think there's so many people here at this conference right now that want to take Kubernetes and use it for their own purposes. And as successful as it is, and as much uptake as it's got, there is a potential danger there, I think, that it explodes out of control, and I don't want to knock OpenStack, but becomes difficult and not what we want it to be, and that's dangerous for them. >> Nigel, you bring up a great point here, because something we've been looking at is every time we abstract or make this new design model, it's "Oh well". We want to make sure the developer doesn't have to worry about that infrastructure. Clayton from Red Hat, we had him on theCUBE, and he talked about it in the keynote, boring means when I write my code I don't have to think about the infrastructure, but networking and storage. Networking some of the basis pieces are done but there's a lot of activity in that space, and storage, we're still arguing over what Container Native Storage should be, what CloudNative storage should be. So it's still to my definition, it's not boring. That's the direction, and I like it. Kind of was where we talked about invisible infrastructure. >> Yeah >> What do you see? You've got a heavy background on that side too. >> So I think I quite like this space that networking is at within Kubernetes. It's simple, and that works for me, right. Storage is certainly, it's still playing catch up there, and I think a lot of decisions still need to be made. The future, in my opinion, is still not clear there. But I think a lot of games have got to be played to say, now how far do we take networking, and how far do we take storage and things like that so that it, in the one sense doesn't balloon out of control, but on the other side you do want it to meet more use cases than just the very basic use cases. So, I mean, that plays back to my idea that that danger aspect of Kubernetes, it seems to have won in the orchestration space at the moment, but I think the road ahead, there still loads of potholes, and there's tight bends, and there's cliff edges and things that we still could fall off, and that's exciting. >> Nigel, your dangerous comment reminds me of some of the early days of V-M-ware. >> Nigel: Right >> You know, people that would get in there, they'd do some really cool things, they'd write it up, share it with the community. And absolutely, it feels like that, almost even bigger. >> Yeah, like the top layer that interfaces with the developers and things like that, that's getting pretty stable. But underneath, I mean, that is a happening place underneath right now, and I imagine it's going to be a happening place for quite a few years. >> What about service meshes and also pluggable architectures? Because that seems to be the answer to the dangerous question. Oh don't worry about it, carriers and what not. You can just build pluggable architectures, no one's going to get hurt. >> Nigel: Yeah >> Not ready for prime time? What's your thoughts? >> So I think service mesh is almost certainly in my opinion, the hot topic of the conference so far. I like this idea of it getting born and stuff, and that's good for the project. But if there's one take away, if it's something that you're not quite clued upon at the moment, go away and look into service mesh. I've got to do a lot of that myself, to be perfectly honest. But this whole idea of running like sidecar containers and what have you, inside of the pods, alongside your application to look at your ingress traffic, your incoming traffic, your outgoing traffic. It's all cool and it can add so much functionality and make it so much more usable to a lot of users. But at the same time there's not ... I don't know, right, look I'm a little bit old fashioned. I remember the days of deploying agents on servers. And we would have server bills that had agent upon agent upon agent. And we have this backlash in the industry of like, you're not bringing your product in vendor x, y or z, okay. If it deploys an agent, we're going fully agentless here. We're sick of managing all these different agents in our stack, and I wonder again, playing to the danger topic here, that like, are we going to end up having loads of these sidecar containers in our pods that are affectively the modern day agents that we then have to manage, and consume resources >> Explain the sidecar generation, it's important. Take a minute to explain the dynamic because containerization has been around for awhile, Google and everyone else knows that. >> Nigel: Yeah. >> But Docker really put it on the map. Now the commoditization of containers with Kubernetes. What's this sidecar thing about? >> Nigel: Okay >> Quick, take a minute to explain to the folks. >> Right, so in the Kubernetes world I guess the atomic unit of deployment, the equivalent of a V-M from the V-M World space would be the pod, which is effectively a container, right? But within that pod you run your application container. And I think for most people you run one container inside of that pod, it's your application, right? What we're starting to see now is, and Kubernetes has always had this ability to run multiple containers inside of a pod. Most people don't do it. And it seems that a lot of the external projects, and a lot of the third party vendors are starting to pick up on this and say, "Alright, well let's run another container "Inside of that pod". It's not your actual application and we call it a sidecar container. And it adds functionality and what have you, but is also potentially eats through resources, it makes your deployments maybe more complicated. I mean it's always a trade off, isn't it? >> Yeah >> You get additional functionality but it's never for free. >> Yeah it's overhead. Alright, talk about the customer guys. What we saw in keynote, we saw HBO on stage. How are customers using Kubernetes? Because I'm trying to put my finger on it. I love Orchestrate, I know what that does, and I understand the benefits, but how are actually people using it today? >> So I think it's a little bit like the whole container thing, right? The early adopters of the Netflix's and the HBOs and the people like that that have got large engineering teams, that have a lot of developers on staff, they're really just comfortable going and taking these new technologies, and rolling them themselves, and they've got this appetite for danger, again within their organization almost. Their risk taking organizations, right. They're all over the containers and the Kubernetes. The more traditional enterprises I think are still kicking the tires. They're still throwing out the occasional new project within the organization and saying, "Let's test the waters with this new feature "That we want to add to our main product", or "We've got something new, "Let's try containers and Kubernetes." They're certain, at least the ones that I speak to, certainly not at the phase where they're taking their legacy apps. >> HBO was using it for like traffic, identifying ingress, you mentioned that earlier, I mean basic stuff. Not a lot of heavy lifting, or is it? >> Well, I think the HBO, I mean ... How much they ran the season seven of Game of Thrones on Kubernetes. I mean, I'm sure there was some non-Kubernetes stuff in there as well, but it seemed like from the presentation pretty much, well, a lot of that stuff was running containers and Kubernetes, and lets be fair, when it comes to HBO, Game of Thrones is like their, it's their killer product at the end of the day, isn't it? And so they've taken a risk there with that. >> Yeah >> But again you know HBO, a rare... >> There's a lot of online viewers, by the way on that too. >> Yeah. >> With HBO Go. >> Oh, an insane number! But I would say compared to a traditional enterprise they're a risk taking organization. They live in the Cloud. They like living on the edge. They're willing to take risks with new technologies to push the product forward. >> Alright, so I want to get your guys' thoughts on a tweet I saw out there. "Think of Kubernetes as the colonel "For modern distributed systems. "It's not about zero ops, it's about op power tools "to unlock developer productivity." Craig McLuckie from Heptio mentioned that on stage. Really kind of rallying around Kubernetes. Thoughts on that quote? What does that mean? >> So I mean John, you know there was for a while people saying, "How do we deprecate? "Or even go to kind of noOps?" Absolutely, many of the keynotes talked about who's deploying them and who's running them. We're not talking about eliminating ops. Even when I can have a voice assistant help roll things out, they're still absolutely a major piece of who needs to run this, but the right things to the right part of the organization. >> Yeah, I think instead of using the word colonel maybe use the word Linux, you know. Looking at Kubernetes as the Linux of the Cloud, and that's not my term, I've heard other people say it. But it's open source for a start like Linux is, it's got a great thriving community of people contributing to it. You can fork it, you can do what ever you want with it, but if you're going to deploy a CloudNative application right now, then Kubernetes is that substrate. You've just got to look at what came out of re:Invent. So A-W-S is now offering a native Kubernetes hosted service, obviously Google does it, Azure does it with Microsoft. They're all picking up on this realizing that people deploying CloudNative apps, they're going to be deploying it on Kubernetes. >> Thoughts about Red Hat. I just saw Gabe Monroy, the keynote, Stu. Red Hat's contribution to hardening Kubernetes cannot be overstated. C-C OpenShift And we had Bryan Gracie on yesterday. I mean OpenShift, what a bet. Microsoft betting heavily on Kubernetes. Google obviously sees this as an opportunity. Multi-Cloud fantasies out there somewhere, but that's what customers are kind of asking for, not yet in tangible product, but this is interesting. You've got Red Hat, the king of the enterprise, OpenSource. >> Nigel: Absolutely, yeah. >> No debate about that. Microsoft and Google, old guard with Microsoft and then new guard in Google. Really if they don't throw a line at the main Cloud trend with Kubernetes, they could be left in the dust. So I see a lot of things at play. How is the Red Hat and the Kubernetes investment paying off? How do you guys see that playing out? Good strategic move, headroom to it? What comments and caller commentary on that? >> Well I think if you compare Red Hat to Microsoft, if you don't mind me doing that, Microsoft has a cash cow in Windows in the past and I think it quickly realized that the cash cow was not going to live forever, and they invested heavily in Azure. Red Hat live a lot, I guess as well, off support contracts and things like that, the Red Hat enterprise Linux. How long of a tail that has, I'm not sure. So certainly they're doing at least, they're looking in the right direction at least by investing heavily in Kubernetes. If they want to go in and be the enterprise's trusted Kubernetes partner, I think they've got a great story. They've contributed a ton to it. They're already in the door at most enterprises, and I think you couple those two things together if the enterprise is going to adopt Kubernetes at some point. I'm not saying they've go the best story, but they've got a pretty decent story. >> Alright, in the last minute I want to ask both you guys this question because it's been kind of on my mind, I've been thinking about it. Maybe I'm overstretching here but three day conference, one day to CloudNative, two days to Kubernetes, KubeCon. Why? More important? Growing community? CloudNative I think, would be probably stronger sessions. Is it because there's more emphasis on the Kubernetes? >> Kubernetes is the core, Kubernetes is what started the C-N-C-F. >> John: Yeah >> All the other projects really build off to it. I think it's pretty... >> It needs more attention. >> Kubernetes, I mean, while there's ... You know I love Kelsey's line this morning. He looked out at the audience he says, "I think everyone that's running Kubernetes "In the globe is here." So, there's jokes about how many people are actually running in production >> Yeah, they're probably here. >> So look, there's still so many people that are getting the Kubernetes 1-0-1. The whole CloudNative, all of these other projects are all building off of it. I think it's really straight forward on there. We even heard, do we call it the C-N-C-F? Do we rename it to something that's a little more Kubernetes focused? Because CloudNative gets talked about some, there's service mesh, absolutely Nigel, it was the buzz coming into the show. I hear those sessions are overflowing here. We didn't even get to talk about, there's like another alternative to Istio that's there. >> And Lou Tucker, by the way, affirmed that same thread yesterday about the service mesh. Nigel, final word for you on this segment. How big order of magnitude and important is Kubernetes? I mean given you've seen, talk about agent-ism in the old days, and all the ways that have come, that's been kind of incremental proving balls been moved down the field here and there. And some big chunk yardage, if you will, use this football analogy. How big, because I've seen Kubernetes just go from here to here. >> Yeah >> Really move the need along the community, it's galvanized. How important is Kubernetes, from an order of magnitude, when we look back a few years from now, what are we going to be saying? "Hey, remember KubeCon in 2017?" How important is Kubernetes? >> Well, can I say I think it's really early days, okay? And I like the analogy that it is the Linux of the Cloud or of CloudNative, okay? But I think there's danger in that as well because the world is changing so fast now. I mean Linux has lived for a very long time, okay. Will Kubernetes live that long or will it be replaced by something else? It probably will be, but I do feel these are early days, and I think it has got a long stretch ahead. A long stretch as in like... >> John: Yeah. >> Good four or five years. And within two to three years, you know, just about every organization in my opinion is going to have some Kubernetes in it. >> And the beginning signs of maturity's coming. Stack Wars too, all the vendors really trying to figure out, strategically it's like a 3-D chess match right now. Open source is kind of like arbiter of this, really good stuff. I think it's going to be super important. Thanks for the commentary. kicking off day two of Cube exclusive coverage here at KubeCon. CloudNativeCon was yesterday. Two days of KubeCon. We'll be back with more live coverage. From theCUBE, I'm John Furrier. Stu Miniman and Nigel Poulten after this short break. (light techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's the CUBE covering OpenStack Summit 2017, brought to you by the OpenStack Foundation; Red Hat, an additional ecosystem of support. (upbeat synthesizer music) >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman, joined by my cohost John Troyer. This is The CUBE, worldwide leader in live enterprise tech coverage. Coming into the show this year, here, at OpenStack, discussion of edge was something that had a little bit of buzz. Last year's show in Austin, the telecommunication all of the NFV solutions were definitely one of the highlights. Happy to welcome to the program a first-time guest, Beth Cohen, who is the SDN and NFV Network Product Strategy at Verizon. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you, yes. >> All right, so Beth, I mean, we hear cloud in a box, Edge, all those pieces in the keynote, Monday. People are excited, you know, telecommunications. I worked in telecom back in the '90s. I'm excited to see that people are getting involved and looking at this, but before we get into all the tech, just tell us, briefly, about you and your role inside Verizon. >> Sure. So, I actually work at Verizon as a New Product Strategist, so I come up with new products, so I do product management. This is actually my second product for Verizon. The previous one was Secure Cloud Interconnect which is a very successful product. Who would have thought that connecting privately to the cloud would be a good idea? It turns out, everybody thinks that's an excellent idea, but I worked in telecom back, for GTE, back in the 1990s and through BBN, so I've been in this industry for a while and I've always stayed kind of on the cutting edge of things, so I'm very excited to be working on these cutting-edge projects within Verizon. >> All right, so speaking of cutting edge, let's cut to the Edge. >> Beth: Cut to the Edge (laughs). >> And, give our audience a little bit about what the announcement was, >> Sure. >> the actual product itself. >> So, Virtual Network Services, is the product. We originally announced it in July with a universal CP box. That box was not a, what we're calling a white box which I think is the industry term, now. That one was based on the Juniper NFX250 which is, we call, a gray box, so it's using the Juniper NFX software, but the new, new announcement is this is truly a white box. It's an x86 box. It's generic, any x86 will work, and, in fact, the product has, we realized, actually, working with customers that some customers want to have a very small box, very small footprint, low cost, that only supports maybe two, possibly three, NFVs, Virtual Network Functions, all the way up to our largest box, is 36 core. So, we have four core at the bottom, so that's used for the coffee shops or the small retail-type functions where they're only looking for security in routing or security in SDN or SD-WAN or whatever, so very small, compact use all the way up to 36 core which can support, you know, 10 or 12 different functions, so load balancing, routing, security, whatever you want, >> Yeah. >> cloud in a box. >> There's so many pieces of OpenStack and they've been, for years, talking about the complexity. This, really, if I understand it right, I mean, it's OpenStack at the edge in a small box, so how do we kit such a complicated thing in a little box and what kind of functionality does that bring? You know, what will customers get with it? >> So, obviously, it's, we didn't take old everything, >> Right. >> of course, so, you know, it does include Neutron for the networking and it does include Nova in the computes and so it has the core components that you need for OpenStack. And, why did we choose that? Because OpenStack really gave us that consistent platform across both out at the edge and also within the core, so we are building the hosted network services platform which we're using internally, as well, to host our, to support our network services and we're also supporting customers on this same platform. So, that gives us the ability to give a customer experience both out at the edge and within the core. So, of course, everybody wants to know the secret source. How did we cram that in? Containers, so we containerize OpenStack. One of the requirements is it had to be a single core, so it is a single core in the box because, of course, particularly in a small box, you want to leave as much space as possible for services that our customers want because the OpenStack is the infrastructure that supports it all. >> That's great, I mean, so, Beth, that was one of the highlights of the whole show, for me, right. I like when tech blows my mind a little bit and the idea of something that we might have run on a some embedded Linux source or embedded OS before, now, it's actually running a whole cloud platform, in a box, in my office, was amazing. As you're looking at the center of the network versus the edge, is that one, to you and to network ops, is that one big cloud, is that a cloud of clouds? What's kind of the architecture? >> Beth: Cloud of clouds. >> Yeah. >> Is it fog? (co-hosts laughing) >> It's, yeah, you could say it is a fog, because one of the things when you pull a network to the edge like that, Verizon lives, I mean, we live and breathe networks and the networks are WANs, Wide Area Networks, right, they're everywhere, so we live and breathe that every day. So, traditionally, as I mentioned in the keynote, is that cloud has been sort of the data center centric, right, and that changes the equation because, if you think about it, most data center centric clouds, the network ends at, there's some mystery thing that happens and the end, right? It just goes to that network router, you know, NNI, network-to-network net router and it just kind of disappears, right? Well, of course, we know what's on the other side, so what we've done is we've said, okay, we have functionality within that data center, but we've expanded that out to the edge and we understand that you can't just have everything sitting in the cloud and then rely on that edge to just work, so you need to move pieces of it out so it's not reliant on that inside data center. So, there's tools back there, but if that data center connection goes away, that function will still work out at the edge. >> That's great. You talked about both SDN and NFV, a big conversation at OpenStack for the last several years. >> Yeah. >> Can you talk a little bit about maybe the state of SDN and NFV and how you all are looking at that and are we there yet? What do we still, >> (laughs) Are we there yet? >> what places do you still see we need to go? >> So, when I worked with the marketing team, they were like, "Oh, we're going to have to use this NFV term. "We have to use the SDN," and when I talk to customers, inevitably, they're like, "What is the NFV stuff?" They have no idea, so, really, at the end of the day, I see NFV as a telco thing. Absolutely, we need it, but we have to translate what that means to customers because all that back-end stuff, as far as they're concerned, that's magic. That's the magic: that we deliver the services. Those packets just arrive, they do what they're supposed to do. So, I say, okay, network services is really what you're talking about, because they understand, "Oh, yeah, I need that security, I need that firewall, "I need that WAN Optimizer, I need that load balancer." That, they understand. >> Yeah. >> Well, Beth, I, with my telecom background, I think of, there's lots of hardware, there's lots of cabling, there's the challenges that you have with wireless and we're talking a lot about 5G, you're talking about software, though, and it's delivering >> Yeah. >> those services that the customer needs, so, right, is that what they ask for? Is it, I need these pieces and now I can do it via software as opposed to before, I had to, you know, we talked, it's the appliances to the software move? >> Right. >> What are the, your customers asking for and how are they embracing this? >> Well, so our customers are very excited. I can't think of a single customer that I have gone to that have said, "Why would I do that?" They're all saying, "No, this is really exciting," and so what they're doing is they're really rethinking the network because they're used to having stacks of boxes, so the appliance base, you know, that was really pioneered back, of course, Cisco sort of pioneered it back in the '90s but I remember talking to Infoblox back in the, oh, like the early 2000s when they came out with DHCP DNS appliance and I was like, "Wow, that's so cool." So, this is sort of the next generation, so why do you need to have six different boxes that do a single thing? Why don't we just make it a cloud in the box and put all those functions together and service chain them? That gives you a lot more flexibility. You're not stuck with that proprietary hardware and then worrying about, I mean, I can't tell you how many customers want to do this for tech refresh. They have end-of-life equipment that the vendor is saying, "Forget it, (laughs) this is 10-year-old equipment. "We're not supporting it anymore." >> Yeah, but what are the security implications, here, though? We've seen the surface area of where attacks can come from just seems to be growing exponentially. I think, I go to the edge, I've got way more devices, there's more vulnerabilities. Your last product, you said, was security. How does security fit into all of this? What are you hearing from your costumers? How do you partner with other people? >> So, security is absolutely paramount to our customers. As I mentioned in the talk, there was a, we did a survey of our customers. Security was absolutely the top priority, but security's a lot more sophisticated, as you said, than it used to be and the vectors for attack are much more sophisticated and so it's not enough to just have a firewall. That's, your attack is, you know, the sqiushy inside and the hard outside, forget it. That's just (laughs)-- >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. You get it. >> That's just not there anymore. >> Indeed, the moats are gone. They're in the castle. >> Yeah. >> They're in the castle, right. So, for us, it's very appealing to our customers, that, the idea that they can put the security where they need it, so they can put it out at the edge and some of them so want it at the edge and we give them the choice of setting up a sort of a minimal basic firewall or a full-featured next-gen firewall. We also find customers kind of like the brand names, so we offer Palo Alto, Fortinet, Cisco, Juniper and others will be coming, so that appeals to them. They tend to be a shop of one or the other. >> John: All on a software basis? >> All on a software basis. >> Giving them the virtual clients discount? >> Right, yeah, all virtual clients is right. And, you know, at the end of the day, our customers don't actually care about the hardware. For them, it's the service. >> I wanted to take it over to OpenStack itself for a little bit. You know, the great conversation here, this week, has been something about modularization, talking about the ecosystem, talking about containers, both the app layer up on top and the packaging layer down below, which is kind of really cool, as well. How are you seeing the OpenStack community engage with the ecosystem be available to different use cases like this? Right, slim it down, take what you need, leave the rest, different, for a while, the conversation was, there were so many projects and, about everything, and do you feel like OpenStack is going where we need it to go, now, in terms of, again, a usable partner and community to work with? >> I do believe that because, so, my product is really a portfolio, if you think about it, so it's a portfolio of services and I view our use of OpenStack in the same way. So, we're really taking that portfolio of OpenStack services and pulling, you know, putting together the package that we need to deliver the services. So, what's out at the edge, that package of OpenStack services at the edge, that's not the same set of services as what's within the core data center. There's some commonality, but we've chosen the ones that are important to us for the edge and chosen the ones that are important to us for the core. So, I think that the OpenStack community is really embracing this notion and we really welcome that, that thing. Now, what I'm finding is that the vendors that we're supporting, you know, that, in the ecosystem, at the application layer, are still struggling with, "Okay, do we containerize? "Do we support, what do, how do we support it?" I can't tell you how many vendors I've gone to and I said, "If you want to be in our portfolio," and obviously most of them do, you know, Verizon's a big company, "you have to be virtualized. "You have to be able to support, run under OpenStack," and they have to get past that, (laughs) that issue. >> Beth, I noticed in some of your social feeds, you've attended some of the Women at OpenStack event. >> Yes. >> I wonder if you have any comment on the events there and diversity in general in the community? >> So, one of the things I love about OpenStack is it's really, really gone out of its way in, within the open source community, in general, to really focus on the value of diversity and it really does track the number of women that, you know, there's a metric that says the percentage of women at every summit and it's going up and the Women of OpenStack community focus on mentoring, and it's not just women, because mentoring's very important, but it really allows, but women are, have sort of special challenges and minorities have special challenges, as well, and we really try to embrace that fact that you do need a leg up if you're not a 50-year-old white guy (laughs). >> All right, Beth Cohen, really appreciate you joining us. Congratulations on the keynote, the product and wish you the best of luck going forward. >> Thank you. >> We'll be back with more coverage here from OpenStack Summit in Boston. For John and myself, thanks for watching The CUBE. (upbeat synthesizer music)

>> Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's The Cube covering OpenStack Summit 2017. Brought to you by the OpenStack Foundation, Red Hat, and additional ecosystems support. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman joined by my cohost this week, John Troyer, here at the OpenStack Summit in Boston, Massachusetts. Happy to welcome back to the program, Lee Doyle, who is Principal Analyst with Doyle Research. Lee, nice to see you. >> Nice to see you. Thanks for having me. >> Alright, so networking's your main space. >> Lee: Absolutely >> We've talked about networking for a bunch of years here at the show. Last year: telecommunication, NFV. This year, it seem like half the people on the main stage worked for, you know, some big Telco, and NFV, buzz on the edge. Before we get into some of the initial pieces, what's your take on the OpenStack community, in general, and the show? We're gettin' towards the end so what's your take been this week? >> Always great to have the show in Boston, my hometown. OpenStack and telecom have been going together hand in hand since the beginning of OpenStack, really, and a lot of contributions and use to the big service providers who are here, AT&T, Verizon, some others. So OpenStack's really becoming a good platform for their NFV and virtualization modernization efforts. >> Before we get into some of the cool, new stuff. Core networking, I mean, Neutron's one of those things we've been banging on for years. It seems like it's matured to a bit, But always the one, I mean, networking's never done, right? We're always cranking on it, doing new things. What do you hear about the stability? What the community hears? Is the networking thriving good? Any feedback you've had. >> Sure, no, it was good question and always a question that I ask folks. I think we've seen significant maturity in Neutron. It's stable, it performs, it does a lot of things we expect networks to do, but there still are third party network solutions. If you look at Big Switch or Cumulus or others, say, you don't want to use Neutron or you want to enhance it, feel free to work with us to provide even better networking. >> In a broad trend, companies you mentioned, they're software companies. >> Lee: Absolutely. >> Networking is like boxes and cabling and things like that. How is that software-eating-the-world stack up when it comes to the network space? >> I think the majority of the value in networking, as in IT, is in software, right? The majority of the revenue is in boxes, which are hardware and software integrated. So, from a technology standpoint, it's very software driven. From a market standpoint, it's still box driven. We're in between those two and that's what makes this a very interesting point in time. >> Maybe you could tease apart for us a little bit, for people on the enterprise side, they're used to hearing the letters SDN, right? >> Lee: Right. >> Here, if you're talking to telecom NFV, slightly different takes on some similar problems about service, management, and delivery. >> Lee: Right. >> In OpenStack, are the same bits, is Neutron used by the enterprise for SDN in the same way it's used at the network core by the service providers or are these really two different planes that are developing? >> Right and it's a bit of a complex question. At Doyle Research, what I've done to simplify, is talking about software based networking. So that includes SDN, that includes NFV. Those things overlap and we'll get very hung up, like, what does SDN mean? It's separation control and data plane. What does network function virtualization mean? What's an Etsy telecom standard for taking boxes in the telecom network and turning them into software? So, I try to get away from that and move towards: ok, what is it we're trying to accomplish? Well, with OpenStack, we're trying to deliver networking. It's going to be in software. There still might be, and probably is, some form of Ethernet switch or other box that's moving the bits, right? So, the way I think about it is some of the SDN products that I mentioned, like Cumulus or Big Switch, would be enhancements to something that's a core function of OpenStack, which I wouldn't traditionally call SDN, but that's my view. >> Lee, speak to us, what have you heard about Edge? It was one of those things we heard, the buzz coming in. There's a couple different definitions. The telecommunication people have a very, you know: that's the edge of our network. When I talked to enterprise people, it's IoT and sensors. So what are you hearing about Edge? How's network play across all those? >> Right, well, Edge is very much how you define it or which environment you're talking about, right? Traditionally, in the telecom world, you've got your core of your network and you've got your edge of the network and how that's defined in between because you have network capabilities all throughout the environment. SD-WAN is by far been the hottest technology, not just in terms of buzz, but in terms of actual deployment both in enterprise and service provider. In the service provider space, that sort of blurs into what the vCPE offerings are. So you hear: Verizon, Telefonica just made an announcement, went with Nuage on that. So you can go through all the major service providers. Either they're incorporating SD-WAN functionality into their VCP or they're announcing SD-WAN functionality separately. >> Is there any connection between the SD-WAN stuff and OpenStack I hadn't heard or talked about. Of course, hot technology. We covered Riverbed's announcements. Last year, Viptela, been on The Cube a number of times, just acquired by Cisco. Where do you see SDN playing out? Is this the year that it just becomes a feature? Does it still stay as a distinct market segment? >> On the OpenStack question. OpenStack's traditionally sort of a cloud-based, the bigger data center thing. There are elements you can use and leverage from OpenStack at the edge. In terms of SD-WAN, we're at the hockey-stick phase. The market's going straight up, starting to see wide-scale deployments across a large number of verticals. Usually, the verticals that have lots of branches. So you look at financial services, you look at retail, but you can extend to government, and healthcare, and anywhere where you're trying to do a lot of connectivity between distributed environments. And the real change is that, previously, you do a hub-and-spoke network. You get MPLS, you take the information from the branch and you move it to your corporate data center or data centers. Well now, cloud, SaaS. The information doesn't need to go to the data center. In fact, if it goes to the data center, you add a lot of latency. So SD-WAN is adding the intelligence, the traffic-steering, the ability to manage multiple networks and to move away from MPLS and towards more cost-effective internet connectivity. So, there's still 25. Viptela was the biggest company taken out recently but there's still 24 other solutions and probably more being announced over the next six months. >> Stu: Wow, 24, huh? >> At least, yeah. >> I'm curious, we talk about hybrid-cloud and multi-cloud and networking's one of the things that sort of tie all of that together. How do thing like Kubernetes, and the public-to-private piece, how's that shaking out in the network space? >> Well, networks have to support multi-cloud environments. They need to support what's happening privately, publicly, VMware, Red Hat, OpenStack obviously, and soon to be containers. Each of those are little bit different. So can you have a network solution that spans all of that? One of the things that VMware is very public about talking about, at this show, is their ability to do the hybrid public-private. Red Hat talks about that and I spent a lot of time last week on that topic as well. >> As you're talking with network engineers, both in service providers and out at the enterprise. We've talked about all this change, we've hyped the cloud, we're now switching from a hardware-centric model to a more software defined, literally. Are you seeing new skillsets needed for these network engineers? Automation, you know, does the job change as we go forward? >> Absolutely, it changes. When you look at a traditional CCIE, which is Cisco certified, that's about Cisco APIs, Cisco boxes, in a world where there's a lot of other software elements and you've got to tie to different orchestration, different management, public-private cloud. There absolutely is different skillsets and there needs to be an evolution and it's on of the challenges of the networking industry because there simply aren't enough people who are familiar with building the new style, software-driven networks as there need to be. >> John: With all this exhilaration and change, how are you seeing people say at the management layer, the management layer of people, the CxO layer, how are they dealing with all this change? You know, new technologies, emerging technologies. Things are not slowing down. >> No and so AT&T has a large-scale, public training program that tries to get its people skilled up to the new technologies. I know a lot of the other Telcos, who have been less public about it, are doing the same. If you go to large network user groups like ONUG, they're talking about new skillsets and how to train there. There's also the organizations. Do you blend compute, storage, application, and networking folks all in the same team. And I know you guys have talked about that previously. How quickly do organizations do that or do they remain relatively traditional. The CIOs are thinking about that, they're reorganizing, but it's not going to be just snap your fingers and hey, everyone's ready for the new software-driven world. >> Yeah, it's a fascinating thing, of course. Networking industry tends to move a little-bit slow. Especially enterprise and we've been talking about fast and agile for a lot of things but that does not characterize that. That being said, feels like things do move faster. What's the general attitude you hear from customers? Are they still reticent to move forward? Others slow to move those processes? You kind of hear, things like security, tend to realize I need to update more, I need to move forward. What do you hear when you're talking to customers, today versus, lets say, only five years ago? >> Sure, we're five years in on NFV and Etsy and I think we're making significant progress. You hear a lot about us at the shows where the Telcos are wanting NFV, but it's still in the initial phases. We've been talking about SDN and the enterprise for about the same amount of time and, you know, mainstream enterprises. The hyper-scale guys, you know: Google, Amazon, Facebook. Yeah, they're already there and they're very innovative and people are following their example and leveraging that. But I just think we're still early in the truly software-driven networking game. >> One of the questions I always have is: What size company you are and what capability do you have? What do you do internally? Versus, do you just adopt a platform that's going to do all that stuff for you? You and I talked about this years ago about network-fabric type of topologies, all the different pieces that went out. There's certain sized organizations, you're going to just go to someone else that can do that. I hear some pieces, Kubernetes might be the same kind of things. Do you see that? People just saying it's not outsourcing anymore, but I'm going to be more strategic, focus on my business, my applications, and let somebody else handle the underlying stuff. >> If IT, or the network, or branch operations is not central to what you do, I think outsourcing makes perfect sense. And that may be outsourcing it to a reseller, or someone to manage it for you, it may still be on-prem. But more and more the workloads are going to the clouds. >> And the reason I move away from outsourcing, the old outsourcing was: my mess for less and this is a more strategic: what piece of the stack do I own or what do I run versus someone else. It's not: I told you this is the exact configuration in something you run. It's: I'm buying x-bandwidth, x-performance, things like that and it's something that's updated a little more frequently. They manage that piece and it's further down the stack than I care to look at. >> Lee: Sure, there's new, managed service providers who look at your WAN and networks, so that comes into play. The leading Telcos would certainly want to play a role here beyond just providing the pipe. They want to take care of your networking challenges for you. So there's a lot of new options for folks who don't want to build and buy and sweat there. >> Do you see a difference between what's going on inside the U.S. and then in the rest of the world in terms of the Telcos, and services they're rolling out, ambitions, and where they want to play? >> There are clearly geographic differences when you get into telecom but it's not as simple as saying: x-geography is doing. You almost have to go operator by operator, there. >> Anything that you've seen here at the show. This is your first summit. You've been following, obviously, the space for a very long time. Anything you've seen here, either sessions, or vendors, or users doing interesting things, or anything that's excited you recently in areas that you're following and are interested? >> Yeah, the passion here for OpenStack is undeniable. You've got a lot of people who are committed to the community, they're aware of the networking challenges, and the significant strides we've made with OpenStack networking, but also where we need to go in the future. So, it's exciting to be here and fun to see everyone. >> Last thing I want to ask, Lee. Is there anything that, advice you want to give the community? Things that you heard of from users or you observed where we should mature over the next iteration of the solution set? >> I think, as a technology-driven community, it's always incumbent on the community to really explain the business benefits and talk about how this technology is really solving real-world problems. And it is, but it's just making that translation, sometimes, is challenging. >> Alright, Lee Doyle, great to catch up with you and, like yourself, thrilled to be here in Boston for a technology show. Hope to have more of these here, as always. It's our second week, back-to-back, here in Boston amongst all the other shows we've been doing at SiliconANGLE Media so, stay tuned. John and I have a few more interviews left as we get to wrap up three days of programming here from the OpenStack summit. Thanks for watching The Cube. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Boston, Massachusetts It's theCUBE. Covering OpenStack Summit 2017. Brought to you by the OpenStack Foundation, RedHat, and additional ecosystem support. (upbeat techno music fades out) >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman, joined by John Troyer, and this is theCUBE, SiliconANGLE Media's live broadcast of OpenStack 2017 here in beautiful Boston, Massachusetts. Actually, the clouds have been breaking up, a little bit of sunshine here, and it's our third day of broadcasts. We have really a lot of our editorial segment today. Going to be talking to more community members, talking to one of the Superuser winners, a number of startups, and happy to start the day, Lisa-Marie Namphy who is the US OpenStack ambassador. CUBE alum, been on a number of times. Lisa, tell us what's new in your world. >> Thank you Stu, and thanks John and what a pleasure to be here with you folks, and hello, Boston and world, good morning. What's new, well the OpenStack ambassador program is expanding all the time, we just had a great session that Sonia did to kick off the day today to really talk about, you know, how to get involved in OpenStack, even if you're not necessarily a technical person. It's really important to acknowledge how everybody in our community can contribute, and that's one of the things the ambassador program does really well. So we just had a session on that. One of the things that I've done with our user group that is new and super exciting is I've morphed it into a little bit of the OpenStack in Containers user group. So I've been focusing a lot on containers, done 12 or 13 meetups on Kubernetes and or Docker since last summer, and I just had the pleasure of speaking in the CNCF communities track, communities day track yesterday, and that was so much fun, out there in the grand ballroom, so that's kind of some new and fun things we're doing. >> It's great, this is our fifth year doing theCUBE at this show, always a robust community, really. When we started coming, it was the people building it, Now we have a lot of the users, there's different sub-segments, can you speak a little bit to the kind of maturity of the community, and, you know how do people get involved in the ambassador program, how many are there geographically, number wise, diversity, those kind of things. >> Oh gosh, yeah so it's geo, or it's a worldwide program and it's been going a lot, and you're right, you know years ago, here it was the Design Summit, and we sat around and talked about, you know the next six months of the project, and then it morphed into more users, adoption, customers, operators are a really big one too. And now those things are all so big, we have operators, Midcycles, and all and the Design Summit has been, you know sequestered off into, separated out so that we can really focus here on the customers, the community, users, and those type of contributors as well. So things have changed a lot in the seven years since we've been doing OpenStack. The ambassador program is fantastic. The foundation has done a really good job in the last couple of years of acknowledging the contributions of the user community, and so not necessarily the code contributors only, but the people who are also spending as much time contributing in really significant ways to our community, and growing our commnity. Open source doesn't work without a community. So we know that, and we're doing a much better job of acknowledging who those people are and rewarding them. >> John: How many ambassadors worldwide? >> There's about twenty of us. I'm the only one in the US right now, but we're about to change that. I believe my friend Sheila is going to join and cover the East Coast, and I'll be able to do everything west of the Mississippi, but most countries only have one, and... >> And the role of an ambassador, do you do a lot of meetups? Do you go speak? You're there as a, for people to contact as well, right? >> Yeah, we generally recruit or ask people to be ambassadors if they are already doing those things, if they're already running a local user group, if they already have a brand in OpenStack, and they speak, and they kind of already know how to reach out to people, and how to inspire people, or people see them on stage, and that's why the foundation approached me to do it. I had been running the San Francisco Bay area meetup for three years, and speaking, I don't know this is probably my eighth, ninth, maybe tenth OpenStack Summit that I've been speaking at, and OpenStack days and all of that. And so, you kind of see who's already doing it. The cool thing about community is nobody is asked to do it, like you do it because you have a passion for it, because you love it, because it's the right thing to do, because it's helpful to push the technology forward because you have a passion for the technology, because you love people, all these reasons is why people get into it. So you find all over the world people who are doing this. They're already doing it and they're not being paid to do it they're doing it, those are the people you grab, because you know, there is a burnout level to it but those are the people who have enough passion about it and commitment, and believe in community that they're going to be successful at it. >> Can you talk a little bit about the Bay Area OpenStack user group? It's one of the largest OpenStack user groups, and one of the themes we've seen this week is a lot of talk about containers, a lot of talk about, well, Kubernetes, but containers in general, kind of demystifying the sometimes confusing story about where's OpenStack good for, where's the container layer good for, it turns out it's good for a couple different places, you can containerize OpenStack, you can also... A lot of talk about the app layer on top, but you actually, what you just said, you've actually expanded the conversation, you don't just sit there and say "this month we're talking about Neutron," you talk about a lot of different topics, and you bring people to the table. >> Yeah, San Francisco area, you are correct, it is the world's largest OpenStack user group, we have over 6,000 members. Not all of them are located in the Bay Area, I think people like to join the user group because we provide a lot of really good content, and we live stream our meetups, we have Google Hangouts, I record them all, they're all on our calendar, if you go to meetup.com/openstack, you get to us because we were the first one. So we do get a lot of people from around the world, and I write newsletters with lots of interesting information but it is a local community and we do encourage people to participate, so the meetups are super important and the only way to make sure that you keep your community strong and keep people coming back is to have phenomenal content in your meetups. So I work really hard to make sure that the content is interesting, that it's relevant, and the most exciting, most relevant conversation since last summer has been containers. The year before that it was networking, and it still kind of is and always will be. So we do a lot of meetups on networking, too, but containers has been what people want to talk about. They're trying to figure this out. OpenStack has reached a maturity level where people, you know, they're not necessarily learning or if they are they can take an OpenStack 101 course and those exist all over the place. So we've gone to the next level, and whether it was Cloud Foundry or now Containers we do like to talk about what else you can do with this fabulous technology, and how you should do it. So we've had meetups where we've presented OpenStack on communities, communities on OpenStack, where I personally came in and did a whole meetup on Kubernetes as the underlay, and Rob Starmer came in and did a whole workshop and hands-on about how to run OpenStack on containers. Yesterday our panel, you heard Dan Berg talk about just simplifying it, run everything in a container, but keep it as simple as possible, so what pieces do you need? So these are the conversations that we like to have in our user group, and people keep coming back because it's an exciting conversation. >> Yeah, expanding on that, you talked about just people are always coming, new people to the community that don't know it, people that are changing jobs all the time, new technologies, I mean, we all know community building is a constant, you know, reinvention in something, you keep needing to work How do the ambassadors, how do stay energized on it, how do you keep the momentum and the energy of the community going? >> Yeah, well the cool thing about an open source community is no matter where you're working, you're still part of the community. So I've worked with so many other people here, I don't even know where they are sometimes. I mean we don't tend to talk about what company we're actually working for, or who's paying your paycheck, and especially in the early days of the project that was definitely true, and so some of my good friends have been at four different companies in the time that we've been doing this OpenStack thing, but we're all still working on OpenStack, and I suspect Kubernetes will be very similar, or Docker. You know, how many people are working on Docker? But there's only 200 people that work for Docker, right? So these technologies kind of take on these lives of their own, and people do switch jobs a lot, but people come to meetups because it's a constant thing, and it's also a good place to keep networking and keep looking for work, so we got a lot of that. The beginning of every meetup, I ask for a show of hands of who's hiring. If I ask for who's looking, not everybody raises their hand but if you ask who's hiring, there's a lot of people hiring all the time, and so then the people can look around and say "okay I'm going to go talk to those people," so yeah, the networking is an important part. >> On that point, are you seeing any trends as to what are the roles that they're hiring for, or you know, companies or industries that definitely have changing skillsets, you know John spent a lot of time helping all those virtualization people moving to that next thing, what are you seeing? >> Engineering is the big one, and people are still looking for OpenStack engineers. I mean people ping me all the time, saying "do you know any OpenStack engineers?" So that's usually the number one thing, developers to help build out these things, and then also the companies that, you know, that aren't OpenStack companies, you know companies like GE that are trying to hire what, 20,000 developers in the next couple years, and Mercedes and Tesla, and you see all these companies that are trying to build out their software developer programs. So another role that is interesting that people are hiring for is these developer, DevRel, Developer IVC community roles to try to figure out, you know how are we going to build our developer community within our company? If these are really large companies, or you know, companies like IBM which have interest in things like the Apache Spark community, or you know, you find these pockets in these large companies as well. Or there's a lot of startups, you know unlike, probably not like Docker as much, but Kubernetes is going to have this ecosystem of partners that build around it, and these companies are popping up out of the woodwork and they're growing like crazy, and there's like 30 of them in the Bay Area, right? So they're really trying to expand as well. >> I wanted to ask about the general mood of the summit. My first summit... You know, it happens every six months. I've been impressed by how grounded people are, I see a lot of first time attendees, people starting new OpenStack installations in 2017 right now, here to learn... I'm just kind of curious, over the last couple summits is there anything different you see about here in Boston, anything you're looking forward to going to in the next one, in terms of kind of mood and how people are, are people feeling good, are people, you know, are people still puzzling out this container issue, or are people still talking about public versus private, or what are kind of the mood and conversations you hear from other community members? >> I think people are talking about public versus private again, not still right? I mean is it, that was kind of an interesting one, and I think Johnathan brought it up on main stage on the first day about that kind of readoption of private cloud, and that you know, we knew that was a sweet spot for OpenStack particularly in the US. You know, lots of public clouds running on other parts of the world, but that's a fun conversation, and it's containers of course, but not just containers. I think it was maybe Lauren Sell who put the slide up of all of those other technologies that are, you know affiliate now, and... >> Another ecosystem of open source projects >> Lisa: Yeah, yeah >> that can all interoperate with openstack. >> With Cloud Foundry, and Ansible was up there, and Ceph, and you had a slide full of technologies, OpenDaylight, that are all playing a role here and that the conversation has been about, and I just encouraged in the ambassador session and in the meetup sessions to do that with your meetup. Our meetup has been really successful and the people have loved it because we started bringing in this other technology. People want to talk about IoT, they want to talk about AI, they want to talk about machine learning, so there's those, they want to talk about, you know what are the best use cases for OpenStack so we showcased to GoDaddy what they built with Docker on top of OpenStack. So there's a lot of fun conversations to be had right now, and I think there's a buzz around here, you know that, what, day one when Johnathan put the slide up saying, you know, people have predicted the end of OpenStack and that was like four years ago or whatever, that was an awesome slide, right? I'm sure talked to him about it. >> Yeah, I absolutely traded notes, and caught opinion about it, too. Lisa, you live in The Valley, I'm curious about perception in The Valley, you know, OpenStacks now been around seven years, it's kind of, you know, it's matured, it's moved on, some called it boring because we fixed some of the main issues, you know We mentioned all the OpenStack days with you know Cloud Foundry, Kubernetes, all these software pieces on top, what do you hear in The Valley when people talk about OpenStack, any misperceptions you'd want to clarify? >> Yeah, yeah it's not boring. It's funny when you say to a California girl "you live in The Valley," I'd be like, "let's just say The Silicon Valley." Not the, not the other Valley. >> Stu: Not the Valley girl >> Don't make me start talking like that, right? >> Stu: Oh my god! (laughs) >> Right, so, no. It's never boring, it's never... It hasn't been boring from day one, and there's been times where I felt like okay we've been talking about infrastructure for years now, let's talk about some other things, but I love the way at this conference they're talking about, they're calling it the "open infrastructure conference." You know, this is what OpenStack has become, and that just opens the conversation. You know, I love that shift. There's always something exciting to talk about, and I don't mean the little inside baseball things, like should we have done Big Ten, should Stackalytics go away, I mean, you know people like to talk about that stuff, but I don't find that customers or the people at the meetups are talking about that stuff. People at the meetups are talking about you know, how should we run this with Kubernetes? How do these technologies fit together? You know, lots of different things, you know where does Docker play into it? Networking is still a conversation and a problem to still be solved, and how are we going to do this? We had OpenContrail do a meetup with us a couple of weeks ago. There's still a lot of interest in figuring out the networking piece of it, and how to do that better. So we're never going to run out of things to talk about. >> Alright, so how do more people get involved, how do they find their meetups, where do they find resources? >> Most of, openstack.org has a list of all the communities, but most of the communities use meetup.com, almost globally, so if you go to meetup.com, and you put in your geo, you'll find one. You can contact your local ambassador. If you want to get involved, I say just go to a meetup. I mean you can't start leading communities until you participate in communities. There is no way to phone this in. You have to, it's hands-on, roll up your sleeves, let's get to work and participate, and have some fun. So go to a local meetup, and meet your meetup organizers, volunteer, help, and it's so rewarding. Some of my best friends that I have, I've met through OpenStack or open source projects. It creates many opportunities for jobs. So just start going to meetups and get involved, and if you want to be an ambassador, there's a list on the website of how to figure that out. Tom Fifield runs the whole program with Sonia's help out of Australia, but regionally we're always looking for help. There's no shortage of roles that people can play if people really want to. >> Definitely a vibrant community here, doing well, Lisa-Marie Namphy, always a pleasure to catch up with you, and we have a full day of programming coming, so stay tuned and thank you for watching the cube. >> Lisa: Thanks Stu, thanks John. (upbeat techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE covering OpenStack Summit 2017. Brought to you by the OpenStack Foundation, Red Hat, and additional ecosystem support. >> And we're back. I'm Stu Miniman with my cohost, John Troyer, getting to the end of day two of three days of coverage here at the OpenStack Summit in Boston. Happy to welcome the program Sujal Das, who is the chief marketing and strategy officer at Netronome. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you. >> Alright, so we're getting through it, you know, really John and I have been digging into, you know, really where OpenStack is, talking to real people, deploying real clouds, where it fits into the multi cloud world. You know, networking is one of those things that took a little while to kind of bake out. Seems like every year we talk about Neutron and all the pieces that are there. But talk to us, Netronome, we know you guys make SmartNICs. You've got obviously some hardware involved when I hear a NIC, and you've got software. What's your involvement in OpenStack and what sort of things are you doing here at the show? >> Absolutely, thanks, Stu. So, we do SmartNIC platforms, so that includes both hardware and software that can be used in commercial office house servers. So with respect to OpenStack, I think the whole idea of STN with OpenStack is centered around the data plane that runs on the server, things such as the Open vSwitch, or Virtual Router, and they're evolving new data planes coming into the market. So we offload and accelerate the data plane in our SmartNICs, because the SmartNICs are programmable, we can evolve the feature set very quickly. So in fact, we have software releases that come out every six months that keep up to speed with OpenStack releases and Open vSwitches. So that's what we do in terms of providing a higher performance OpenStack environment so to say. >> Yeah, so I spent a good part of my career working on that part of the stack, if you will, and the balance is always like, right, what do you build into the hardware? Do I have accelerators? Is this the software that does, you know, usually in the short term hardware can take it care of it, but in the long term you follow the, you know, just development cycles, software tends to win in terms, so, you know. Where are we with where functionality is, what differentiates what you offer compared to others in the market? >> Absolutely. So we see a significant trend in terms of the role of a coprocessor to the x86 or evolving ARM-based servers, right, and the workloads are shifting rapidly. You know, with the need for higher performance, more efficiency in the server, you need coprocessors. So we make, essentially, coprocessors that accelerate networking. And that sits next to an x86 on a SmartNIC. The important differentiation we have is that we are able to pack a lot of cores on a very small form factor hardware device. As many as 120 cores that are optimized for networking. And by able to do that, we're able to deliver very high performance at the lowest cost and power. >> Can you speak to us, just, you know, what's the use case for that? You know, we talk about scale and performance. Who are your primary customers for this? Is this kind of broad spectrum, or, you know, certain industries or use cases that pop out. >> Sure, so we have three core market segments that we go after, right? One is the innovene construction market, where we see a lot of OpenStack use, for example. We also have the traditional cloud data center providers who are looking at accelerating even SmartNICs. And lastly the security market, that's kind of been our legacy market that we have grown up with. With security kind of moving away from appliances to more distributed security, those are our key three market segments that we go after. >> The irony is, in this world of cloud, hardware still matters, right? Not only does hardware, like, you're packing a huger number of cores into a NIC, so that hardware matters. But, one of the reasons that it matters now is because of the rise of this latest generation of solid-state storage, right? People are driving more and more IO. Do you see, what are the trends that you're seeing in terms of storage IO and IO in general in the data center? >> Absolutely. So I think the large data centers of the world, they showed the way in terms of how to do storage, especially with SSDs, what they call disaggregated storage, essentially being able to use the storage on each server and being able to aggregate those together into a pool of storage resources and its being called hyperconverged. I think companies like Nutanix have found a lot of success in that market. What I believe is going to happen in the next phase is hyperconvergence 2.0 where we're going to go beyond security, which essentially addressed TCO and being able to do more with less, but the next level would be hyperconvergence around security where you'd have distributed security in all servers and also telemetry. So basically your storage appliance is going away with hyperconvergence 1.0, but with the next generation of hyperconvergence we'd see the secured appliances and the monitoring appliances sort of going away and becoming all integrated in the server infrastructure to allow for better service levels and scalability. >> So what's the relationship between distributed security and then the need for more bandwidth at the back plane? >> Absolutely. So when you move security into the server, the processing requirements in the server goes up. And typically with all security processing, it's a lot of what's called flow processing or match-action processing. And those are typically not suitable for a general purpose server like the ARM or the x86, but that's where you need specialized coprocessors, kind of like the world of GPUs doing well in the artificial intelligence applications. I think the same example here. When you have security, telemetry, et cetera being done in each server, you need special purpose processing to do that at the lowest cost and power. >> Sujal, you mentioned that you've got solutioned into the public cloud. Are those the big hyperscale guys? Is it service providers? I'm curious if you could give a little color there. >> Yes, so these are both tier one and tier two service providers in the cloud market as well as the telco service providers, more in the NFV side. But we see a common theme here in terms of wanting to do security and things like telemetry. Telemetry is becoming a hot topic. Something called in-band telemetry that we are actually demonstrating at our booth and also speaking about with some our partners at the show, such as with Mirantis, Red Hat, and Juniper. Where doing all of these on each server is becoming a requirement. >> When I hear you talk, I think about here at OpenStack, we're talking about the hybrid or multi cloud world and especially something like security and telemetry I need to handle my data center, I need to handle the public cloud, and even when I start to get into that IoT edge environment, we know that the service area for attack just gets orders of magnitude larger, therefore we need security that can span across those. Are you touching all of those pieces, maybe give us a little bit of, dive into it. >> Absolutely, I think a great example is DDoS, right, distributed denial of service attacks. And today you know you have these kind of attacks happening from computers, right. Look at the environment where you have IoTs, right, you have tons and tons of small devices that can be hacked and could flood attacks into the data center. Look at the autonomous car or self-driving car phenomenon, where each car is equivalent to about 2,500 Internet users. So the number of users is going to scale so rapidly and the amount of attacks that could be proliferated from these kind of devices is going to be so high that people are looking at moving DDoS from the perimeter of the network to each server. And that's a great example that we're working with with a large service provider. >> I'm kind of curious how the systems take advantage of your technology. I can see it, some of it being transparent, like if you just want to jam more bits through the system, then that should be pretty transparent to the app and maybe even to the data plane and the virtual switches. But I'm guessing also there are probably some API or other software driven ways of doing, like to say, hey not only do I want you to jam more bits through there, but I want to do some packet inspection or I want to do some massaging or some QoS or I'm not sure what all these SmartNICs do. So is my model correct? Is that kind of the different ways of interacting with your technology? >> You're hitting a great point. A great question by the way, thank you. So the world has evolved from very custom ways of doing things, so proprietary ways of doing things, to more standard ways of doing things. And one thing that has kind of standardized so to say the data plane that does all of these functions that you mention, things like security or ACL roots or virtualization. Open vSwitch is a great example of a data plane that has kind of standardized how you do things. And there are a lot of new open source projects that are happening in the Linux Foundation, such as VPP for example. So each of these standardize the way you do it and then it becomes easier for vendors like us to implement a standard data plane and then work with the Linux kernel community in getting all of those things upstream, which we are working on. And then having the Red Hats of the world actually incorporate those into their distributions so that way the deployment model becomes much easier, right. And one of the topics of discussion with Red Hat that we presented today was exactly that, as to how do you make these kind of scales, scalability for security and telemetry, be more easily accessible to users through a Red Hat distribution, for example. >> Sujal, can you give us a little bit of just an overview of the sessions that Netronome has here at the show and what are the challenges that people are coming to that they're excited to meet with your company about? >> Absolutely, so we presented one session with Mirantis. Mirantis, as you know, is a huge OpenStack player. With Mirantis, we presented exactly the same, the problem statement that I was talking about. So when you try to do security with OpenStack, whether its stateless or stateful, your performance kind of tanks when you apply a lot of security policies, for example, on a per server basis that you can do with OpenStack. So when you use a SmartNIC, you essentially return a lot of the CPU cores to the revenue generating applications, right, so essentially operators are able to make more per server, make more money per server. That's a sense of what the value is, so that was the topic with Mirantis, who uses actually Open Contrail virtual router data plane in their solution. We also have presented with Juniper, which is also-- >> Stu: Speaking of Open Contrail. >> Yeah, so Juniper is another version of Contrail. So we're presenting a very similar product but that's with the commercial product from Juniper. And then we have yesterday presented with Red Hat. And Red Hat is based on Red Hat's OpenStack and their Open vSwitch based products where of course we are upstreaming a lot of these code bits that I talked about. But the value proposition is uniform across all of these vendors, which is when you do storage, sorry, security and telemetry and virtualization et cetera in a distributed way across all of your servers and get it for all of your appliances, you get better scale. But to achieve the efficiencies in the server, you need a SmartNIC such as ours. >> I'm curious, is the technology usually applied then at the per server level, is there a rack scale component too that needs to be there? >> It's on a per server basis, so it's the use cases like any other traditional NIC that you would use. So it looks and feels like any other NIC except that there is more processing cores in the hardware and there's more software involved. But again all of the software gets tightly integrated into the OS vendor's operating system and then the OpenStack environment. >> Got you. Well I guess you can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much bandwidth. >> That's right, yeah. >> Sujal, share with our audience any interesting conversation you had or other takeaways you want people to have from the OpenStack Summit. >> Absolutely, so without naming specific customer names, we had one large data center service provider in Europe come in and their big pain point was latency. Latency going form the VM on one server to another server. And that's a huge pain point and their request was to be able to reduce that by 10x at least. And we're able to do that, so that's one use case that we have seen. The other is again relates to telemetry, you know, how... This is a telco service provider, so as they go into 5G and they have to service many different applications such as what they call network slices. One slice servicing the autonomous car applications. Another slice managing the video distribution, let's say, with something like Netflix, video streaming. Another one servicing the cellphone, something like a phone like this where the data requirements are not as high as some TV sitting in your home. So they need different kinds of SLA for each of these services. How do they slice and dice the network and how are they able to actually assess the rogue VM so to say that might cause performance to go down and affect SLAs, telemetry, or what is called in-band telemetry is a huge requirement for those applications. So I'm giving you like two, one is a data center operator. You know an infrastructure as a service, just want lower latency. And the other one is interest in telemetry. >> So, Sujal, final question I have for you. Look forward a little bit for us. You've got your strategy hat on. Netronome, OpenStack in general, what do you expect to see as we look throughout the year maybe if we're, you know, sitting down with you in Vancouver a year from now, what would you hope that we as an industry and as a company have accomplished? >> Absolutely, I think you know you'd see a lot of these products so to say that enable seamless integration of SmartNICs become available on a broad basis. I think that's one thing I would see happening in the next one year. The other big event is the whole notion of hyperconvergence that I talked about, right. I would see the notion of hyperconvergence move away from one of just storage focus to security and telemetry with OpenStack kind of addressing that from a cloud orchestration perspective. And also with each of those requirements, software defined networking which is being able to evolve your networking data plane rapidly in the run. These are all going to become mainstream. >> Sujal Das, pleasure catching up with you. John and I will be back to do the wrap-up for day two. Thanks so much for watching theCUBE. (techno beat)

>> Narrator: Live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the Cube. Covering OpenStack Summit 2017. Brought to you by the OpenStack Foundation, Red Hat an additional ecosystem is support. >> Welcome back to the Cube. I'm Stu Miniman joined by my cohost John Troyer. Happy to welcome to the program two first-time guests. We have Anne McCormick who is a technical leader with Cisco. And we also have Sandhya Dasu who is a OpenStack engineer with Cisco. Thank you both for joining us. >> Sandhya: Thank you. >> Anne: Thank you. >> So Anne let's start with you, tell us just a little bit about your role at Cisco and what you're involved with when it comes to OpenStack. >> Absolutely, I've been at Cisco for 11 years. I have been working on OpenStack for about two-and-a-half now. It's been a blast, I've been to six different summits. I'm having a great time. My role at Cisco is I work under the Metacloud acquisition which is basically a managed, on-prem Cloud solution. And what my role is, is to bring Cisco technology into those deployments, so basically bringing the power of Cisco networking into OpenStack. >> Great so just to clarify, you weren't part of the Metacloud, you were part of Cisco. >> Anne: Yes. >> And you're working with that team who we know. We actually interviewed them back before the acquisition. Great to see you. Sandhya, tell us a little about your role, what you do at Cisco and with OpenStack. >> Sure, I have been with OpenStack the last three years. And Cisco about the same time as Anne, about 11 years. Worked in different routing technologies. But in OpenStack I'm responsible for the Neutron ML2 mechanism driver for Cisco UCS managers. So I've been having a great time in the OpenStack community. Developing in Neutron, giving upstreaming code and stuff like that, yeah. >> We wanted to talk about women of OpenStack but also the Women of OpenStack organization. Can you talk a little bit about what that group is here in the OpenStack community and how you got involved? >> Absolutely, Women of OpenStack is fantastic. It's something I discovered at my very first summit in Paris. I was a little leery going in 'cause I wasn't sure what the attitude would be, if it's us versus them kind of thing, that's definitely not what I'm looking for. But what I found was an extremely inclusive and encouraging community of women and men. It basically addresses the need for more women in technology and tries to make the community a more welcoming place and I think it takes both men and women to do that. And I think their charter is fantastic. They have really great events. >> Yeah, so I have been involved with Women in OpenStack also. Like Anne said, very inclusive community. I have been able to be at different levels of involvement, at different times based on the other work that I'm doing. But I also believe that just showing up and doing your work everyday is also setting a good example for everybody else to feel welcome. >> Great could you share a little bit, maybe start with Anne. The activities going on at the show. We know, like, just down the road from us here there's the Women in OpenStack lounge. I believe there's a lunch you had. What does it encompass at one of the summits? >> Yes, that's fairly typical that they have a lounge area. Today they had a working session during lunch. To kind of go over different things and discussion points. Also yesterday there was a speed mentoring session that I was a part of, it was fantastic. It was my first time doing that but I really enjoyed it. And they have ongoing mentoring for six month sessions which I'm also starting to get involved with. And I know I'm missing one, but there's just so many activities that they do, it's great. >> Sandhya? >> So I help out mostly with people trying to put their first code out for review. And I think that seems a bit daunting in the beginning because this is a very big community. You get a lot of code reviews. From lots of different people, how do you handle all the feedback? So I help out with people with their first upstreaming goal. Once they enter OpenStack. >> So I mean, tech has some diversity challenges, right. We, it's well-known, many communities in the technical realm, right? So the OpenStack community being an open source community. Comes out of a particular set of codes of conduct and expectations and participation. What have your experiences been working in the OpenStack community over the years? Does it feel, is it a, is it a welcoming egalitarian community? I mean, the Code of Conduct, last week we just had, there were some issues in the Kubernetes community which were swiftly addressed. I think the people's awareness actually is much higher than it was even say five years ago, let alone 10 or 20. But how have your experiences been working in OpenStack as a diverse and supportive community? >> I've found that my experience in the OpenStack community has been extremely positive. So I find that, I mean, before the open source, before I got into open source I did work with smart engineers but a comparatively smaller number. But now you get to interact with a whole, large number of really smart people and I think you should tap into that portion of your experience more than anything else. So the first time, I mean, I always found that I was happy with the code that I put out for review. But after making all the changes that I got as review comments, I was really proud of the output. So I think there are lots of positives in this environment. You need to make use of that, focus on that. And in terms of the Code of Conduct. I have only had very positive experiences here. >> And I find the community to be equally welcoming. When I walk into one of these big rooms with a predominantly male population I don't go in thinking I'm a female minority, I go in thinking I'm an engineer and this is my tribe, you know? So I think it's great. >> Alright, anything in particular that Sandhya was talking about. You know, setting an example as an engineer and as a female engineer. Anne what has your experience been? >> It's interesting, when I first started out in engineering. I got a scholarship to an engineering school, that was my first, when I started off on the road. And I remember being so proud and going up to receive this scholarship. And I heard somebody next to me say, "Oh what a waste, they're giving it to a girl." And it's funny because it had never until that point occurred to me that there might be any kind of perception like that. So my first knee-jerk reaction was, "Well I guess all the dinosaurs didn't go extinct." But after that-- >> John: Good for you. >> (laughs) But I mean I could easily have been bitter about it but instead I kind of saw it as an opportunity to set an example and to lead with my work and with my confidence. And to help to change the perception that gender matters when it comes to what you do for a living 'cause I don't believe it does. >> I studied in engineering. I know when I had group projects and had women on the project it helped, you need diversity of ideas. You need diversity of background and skillset. Sandhya, any comments about just diversity in general that you'd comment from the engineering standpoint? >> I think like Anne mentioned, once in a while you do get, you are conscious of the fact that there are very few other women in the room. But that's really, that should not be hindering your progress in any way. Just focus on being an engineer. And I think after a point everybody starts looking past the gender thing and just look at your work. >> Once you're around the table or you know, working on a shared whiteboard or Google doc, right, the gender falls away, you're working on the project. >> Sandhya: Exactly. >> Anne: Absolutely. >> And the same thing applies to IRC too. It's a very democratic channel. Everyone has an equal voice. And then in the end it turns out to be a meritocracy there. And if you have a good idea people will take it. Otherwise like everybody else, you just have to work on tweaking it. >> The concept of mentoring has come up a couple of times in this conversation already. As people look at the diverse workforce, and diverse workforce in tech. People talk about things like the pipeline problem. But from what I understand and have read, you know, a lot of it is supporting underrepresented groups within their careers and in their career growth right? And so that, a lot of that comes down to setting examples and mentoring. Can you talk a little bit about Women of OpenStack and how you talked about speed mentoring maybe and how, one let's talk about Women of OpenStack and mentoring. And then maybe even how you're doing mentoring in your own personal career at Cisco. >> Absolutely, mentoring is something that I'm kind of new to but it's becoming a passion of mine. As a way to both give back and to help encourage other people but also I get something out of it. I get inspired by the energy that people bring to things and by the enthusiasm. Yesterday at my speed mentoring session, one of the women that I talked to was very, very qualified and very excited about OpenStack. She has a full time job that doesn't involve OpenStack so she was involved in OpenStack on the side, you know, 'cause that's fun (laughs) to do on the side. But basically she was telling me that it was hard for her to break into the community. And she was a little bit shy about handing off her resume and stuff. And I think, I kind of said to her, "You know you're selling yourself short. "You've got a lot of enthusiasm. "And I think companies would be inspired by that. "And want to include you." So it was just kind of a nice way to help inspire people and encourage them. >> Have you done any mentoring yourself? >> Yes so I find that while I'm mentoring someone there's something that I get out of it too, because whenever you talk to a new grad you get this enthusiasm, this burst of enthusiasm. That helps you fuel your own work again. But I have heard lot of people discouraging each other from entering this field because they say it's not set up for their success. But then I think that's a self-possessing processing. So the more of them that there are in this field the better it is for everyone else. So that should not be a reason for not getting into this field. >> Sandhya could you talk to us a little about your upstream contributions, what things you've been proud of and excited about when it comes to OpenStack in general? >> Yeah so I have been active in the Neutron community. Mostly in the ML2 area of Neutron plugins. What I'm working on is the Cisco UCS mechanism driver for the Neutron ML2. What it helps you do is to use the Cisco UCS Manager to set up virtual networks, Neutron virtual networks and configure SR-IOV ports. And basically use the entire UCS ecosystem in context of OpenStack. >> Great, Anne you've been to six of these summits. Anything as you reflect back, just the maturity of the project, the maturity of the community. Or one of the themes this week has been kind of resetting expectations about what OpenStack is and isn't. What's your take on the community? >> That's interesting. I feel that there was a bit of a bubble perhaps. Maybe a year or so ago with OpenStack. But I don't think, I don't think we have to reset expectations too far. I do think that it's necessary, I don't think it's going anywhere. I think it's evolving and I really do see it as the second wave of the Internet. So we need it and I think it's great. >> Anne, Sandhya, really appreciate you joining, sharing your perspectives. We always love to have the diverse experience and OpenStack actually one of the better shows in making sure we have, you know, smart, energetic, contributing, you know, women participants in the community. We've had a number on, have a few more. So thanks so much for joining us and thanks for all of your contributions in the community. >> Anne: Thank you very much. >> Sandhya: Thank you for having us. >> John and myself, we'll be back with lots more coverage here from the Cube at OpenStack Summit Boston, Massachusetts. Thanks for watching the Cube. (upbeat techno music)