(upbeat music) >> Announcer: TheCUBE presents Ignite '22 brought to you by Palo Alto Networks. >> Welcome back to Las Vegas guys and girls. Lisa Martin here with Dave Vellante. This is day one of the cube's two day coverage of Palo Alto Networks Ignite at the MGM Grand. Dave, we've been having some great conversations today, we have a great two day lineup execs from Palo Alto, it's partner network, customers, et cetera. Going to be talking about infrastructure as code. We talk about that a lot, how Palo is partnering with its partner ecosystem to really help customers deliver security across the organization. >> We do a predictions post every year. Hopefully you can hear me. So we do this predictions post every year. I've done it for a number of years, and I want to say it was either 2018 or 2019, we predicted that HashiCorp was one of these companies to watch. And then last August, on August 9th, we had supercloud event in Palo Alto. We had David McJannet in, who is the CEO of HashiCorp. And we really see Hashi as a key player in terms of affecting multicloud consistency. Sometimes we call it supercloud, you building on top of the hyperscale cloud. So super excited to have HashiCorp on. >> Really an important conversation. We've got an alumni back with us. Asvin Ramesh is here the senior director of Alliances at HashiCorp. Welcome back. >> Yeah, thank you. Good to be back. >> Great to have you. Talk to us a little bit about what's going on at HashiCorp, your relationship with Palo Alto Networks, and what's in it for customers. >> Yeah, no, no, great question. So, Palo Alto has been a fantastic partner of ours for many years now. We started way back in 2018, 2019 focusing on the basics, putting integrations in place that customers can be using together. And so it's been a great journey. Both are very synergistic. Palo Alto is focused on multicloud, so are we, we focus on cloud infrastructure automation, and ensuring that customers are able to bring in agility, reliability, security, and be able to deliver to their business. And then Palo Alto brings in great security components to that multicloud story. So it's a great story altogether. >> Some of the challenges that organizations have been facing. Palo Alto just released a survey, I think this morning if I can find it here what's next in cyber organizations facing massive headwinds ransomware becoming a household word, business email compromise being a challenge. But also in the last couple of years the massive shift to multi-club or organizations are living an operating need to do so securely. It's no longer nice to have anymore. It's absolutely table stakes for survival, and being able to thrive and grow for any business. >> Yeah, no, I think it's almost a sort of rethinking of how you would build your infrastructure up. So the more times you do it right the better you are built to scale. That's been one of the bedrocks of how we've been working with Palo Alto, which is rethinking how should IT be building their infrastructure in a multicloud world. And I think the market timing is right for both of us in terms of the progress that we've been able to make. >> So, I mean Terraform has really become sort of a key ingredient to the cloud operating model, especially across clouds. Kind of describe how partners, and customers are are implementing that cross-cloud capability. What's that journey look like? What's the level of maturity today? >> Yeah, great question, Dave. So we sort of see customers in three buckets. The first bucket is when customers are in the initial phases of their cloud journey. So they have disparate teams in their business units try out clouds themselves. Typically there is some event that occurs either some sort of a security scare or a a cloud cost event that triggers a rethinking of how they should be thinking about this in a scalable way. So that leads to where the cloud operating model which is a framework that HashiCorp has. And we use that successfully with customers to talk them through how they should be thinking about their process, about how they should be standardizing how people operate, and then the products they should be including, but then you come to that stage, and you start to think about a centralized platform team that is putting in golden workflows, that is putting in as a service mindset for their business units thinking through policies at a corporate level. And then that is a second stage. And then, but this is also in some customers more around public clouds. But then the third stage that we see is when they start embracing their private cloud or the on-prem data center, and have the same principles address across both public clouds, and the on-prem data center, and then Terraform scale for any infrastructure. So, once you start to put these practices in place not just from a technology standpoint, but from a process, and product standpoint, you're easily able to scale with that central platform organization. >> So, it's all about that consistency across your estate irrespective of whether it's on-prem in AWS, Azure, Google, the Edge, maybe. I mean, that's starting, right? >> Asvin: Yes. >> And so when you talk about the... Break it down a little bit process and product, where do you and Palo Alto sort of partner and add value? What's that experience like? >> Yeah, so, I think as I mentioned earlier the bedrock is having ways in which customers are able to use our products together, right? And then being able to evangelize the usage of that product. So one example I'll give you is with Prisma Cloud, and Terraform Cloud to your point about Terraform earlier. So customers can be using Prisma Cloud with Terraform Cloud in a way that you can get security context telemetry during an infrastructure run, and then use policies that you have in Prisma Cloud to be able to get or run or to implement or run or make sure essentially it is adhering to your security policy or any other audits that you want to create or any other cost that you want to be able to control. >> Where are your customer conversations these days? We know that security is a board level conversation. Interestingly, in that same survey that Palo Alto released this morning that I mentioned they found that there's a big lack of alignment between the board and the C-suite staff, the executive suite in terms of security. Where are your conversations, and how are you maybe facilitating that alignment that needs to be there? Because security it's not a nice to have. >> Yeah, I think in our experience, the alignment is there. I think especially with the macro environment it's more about where where do you allocate those resources. I think those are conversations that we're just starting to see happen, but I think it's the natural progression of how the environment is moving, and maybe another quarter or two, I think we'll see greater alignment there. >> So, and I saw some data that said I guess it was a study you guys did 90% of customer say multicloud is working for them. That surprised me 'cause you hear all this negativity around multicloud, I've been kind of negative about multicloud to be honest. Like that's a symptom of MNA, and a or multi-vendor. But how do you interpret that? When they say multicloud is working? How so? >> Yeah, I think the maturity of customers are varied as I mentioned through the stages, right? So, there are customers who even in the initial phases of their journey where they have different business units using different clouds, and from a C standpoint that might still look like multicloud, right? Though the way we think about it is you should be really in stage two, and stage three to real leverage the real power of multicloud. But I think it's that initial hump that you need to go through, and being able to get oriented towards it, have the right set of skillsets, the thought process, the product, the process in place. And once you have that then you'll start reaping the benefits over a period of time, especially when some other environments events happen, and you're able to easily adjust to that because you're leveraging this multicloud environment, and you have a clear policy of where you'll use which cloud. >> So I interpreted that data as, okay, multicloud is working from the standpoint of we are multicloud, okay? So, and our business is working, but when I talk to customers, they want more to your point, they want that consistent experience. And so it's been by, to use somebody else's term, by default. Chuck Whitten I think came up with that term versus by design. And now I think they have an objective of, okay, let's make multicloud work even better. Maybe I can say that. And so what does that experience look like? That means a common experience all the way through my stack, my infrastructure stack, which is that's going to be interesting to see how that goes down 'cause you got three separate clouds, and are doing their own APIs. But certainly from a security standpoint, the PaaS layer, even as I go up the stack, how do you see that outcome, and say the next two to five years? >> Yeah, so, we go back to our customers, and they're very successful ones who've used the cloud operating model. And for us the cloud operating model for us includes four layers. So on the infrastructure layer, we have Terraform and Packer, on the security layer we have Vault and Boundary, on the networking layer we have Consul, and then on applications we have Nomad and Waypoint. But then you really look at, from a people process, and product standpoint, for people it's how do you standardize the workflows that they're able to use, right? So if you have a central platform team in place that is looking at common use cases that multiple business units are using. and then creates a golden workflow, for example, right? For these various business units to be able to use or creates what we call a system of record for cloud adoption it helps multiple business units then latch onto this work that this central platform team is doing. And they need to have a product mindset, right? So not like a project that you just start and end with. You have this continuous improvement mindset within that platform team. And they build these processes, they build these golden workflows, they build these policies in place, and then they offer that as a service to the business units to be able to use. So that increases the adoption of multicloud. And also more importantly, you can then allow that multicloud usage to be governed in the way that aligns with your overall corporate objectives. And obviously in self-interest, you'd use Terraform or Vault because you can then use it across multiple clouds. >> Well, let's say I buy into that. Okay, great. So I want that common experience 'cause so when you talk about infrastructure, take us through an example. So when I hear infrastructure, I say, okay if I'm using an S3 bucket over here an Azure blob over there, they got different APIs, they got different primitives. I want you to abstract that away. Is that what you do? >> Yeah, so I think we've seen different use cases being used across different clouds too. So I don't think it's sort of as simple as, hey, should I use this or that? It is ensuring that the common tool that you use to be able to leverage safer provisioning, right? Is Terraform. So the central team is then trained in not only just usage of Terraform open source, but their Terraform cloud, which is our managed service, and Terraform enterprise which is the self-managed, but on-prem product, it's them being qualified to be able to build these consistent workflows using whatever tool that they have or whatever skew that they have from Terraform. And then applying business logic on top of that to your point about, hey, we'd like to use AWS for these kind of workloads. We'd like to use GCP, for example, on data or use Microsoft Azure for some other type of- >> Collaboration >> Right? But the common tooling, right? Remains around the usage of Terraform, and they've trained their teams there's a standard workflow, there's standard process around it. >> Asvin, I was looking at that survey the HashiCorp state of cloud strategy survey, and it talked about skill shortages as being the number one barrier to multicloud. We talk about the cyber skills gap all the time. It's huge. It's obviously a huge issue. I saw some numbers just the other day that there's 26 million developers but there's less than 3 million cybersecurity professionals. How does HashiCorp and Palo Alto Networks, how do you help customers address that skills gap so that they that they can leverage multicloud as a driver of the business? >> Yeah, another great question. So I think I'd say in two or three different ways. One is be able to provide greater documentation for our customers to be able to self use the product so that with the existing people, for example, you build out a known example, right? You're trying to achieve this goal here is how you use our products together. And so they'll be able to self-service, right? So that's one. Second is obviously both of us have great services partners, so we are always working with these services partners to get their teams trained and scaled up around these skill gaps. And I think I'd say the third which is where we see a lot of adoption is around usage of the managed services that we have. If you take Palo Alto's example in this Palo Alto will speak better to it, but they have SOC services, right? That you can consume. So, they're performing that service for you. Similarly, on our side we have a HashiCorp Cloud Platform, HCP, where you can consume Vault as a service, you can consume Consul as a service. Terraform cloud is a managed service, so you don't need as many people to be able to run that service. And we abstract all the complexity associated with that by ourselves, right? So I'd say these are the three ways that we address it. >> So Zero Trust across big buzzword. We heard this in this morning keynotes, AWS is always saying, well, we'll talk about it too, but, okay, customers are starting to talk about Zero Trust. You talk to CISOs, they're like, yes, we're adopting this mentality of unless you're trusted, we don't trust you. So, okay, cool. So you think about the cloud you've got the shared responsibility model, and then you've got the application developers are being asked to do more, secure the code. You got the CISO now has to deal with not only the shared responsibility model, but shared responsibility models across clouds, and got to bring his or her security ethos to the app dev team, and then you got to audit kind of making sure they're like the last line of defense. So my question is when you think about code security and Zero Trust in that new environment the problem with a lot of the clouds is they don't make the CISOs life any easier. So I got to believe that your objective with Palo Alto is to actually make the organization's lives easier. So, how do you deal with all that complexity in specifically in a Zero Trust multicloud environment? >> Yeah, so I'll give you a specific example. So, on code to cloud security which is one of Palo Alto's sort of key focus area is that Prisma Cloud and Terraform Cloud example that I gave, right? Where you'd be able to use what we call run tasks essentially, web hook integrations to be able to get a run or provide some telemetry back to Prisma Cloud for customers to be able to make a decision. On the Zero Trust side, we partner both on the Prisma Cloud side, and the Cortex XSOAR side around our products of Vault and and Consul. So what Vault does is it allows you to control secrets, it allows you to store secrets. So a Prisma Cloud or a Cortex customer can be using secrets from Vault familiarly for that particular transaction or workflow itself, right? Rather than, and so it's based on identity, and not on the basis of just the secret sort of lying around. Same thing with console helps you with discovery, and management of services. So, Cortex and you can automate, a lot of this work can get automated using the product that I talked about from Zero Trust. I think the key thing for Zero Trust in our view is it is a end destination, right? So it'll take certain time, depends on the enterprise, depends on where things are. It's a question of specifically focusing on value that Palo Alto and HashiCorp's products bring to solve specific use cases within that Zero Trust bucket, and solve one problem at a time rather than try to say that, hey, only Palo Alto, and only HashiCorp or whatever will solve everything in Zero Trust, right? Because that is not going to be- >> And to your point, it's never going to end, right? I mean you're talk about Cortex bringing a lot of automation. You guys bring a lot of automation now Palo Alto just bought Cider Security. Now we're getting into supply chain. I mean it going to hit it at the edge and IoT, the people don't want another IoT stove pipe. >> Lisa: No. >> Right? They want that to be part of the whole picture. So, you're never done. >> Yeah, no, but it is this continuous journey, right? And again, different companies are different parts of that journey, and then you go and rinse and repeat, you maybe acquire another company, and then they have a different maturity, so you get them on board on this. And so we see this as a multi-generational shift as Dave like to call it. And we're happy to be in the middle of it with Palo Alto Networks. >> It's definitely a multi-generational shift. Asvin, it's been great having you back on theCUBE. Thank you for giving us the update on what Hashi and Palo Alto are doing, the value in it for customers, the cloud operating model. And we should mention that HashiCorp yesterday just won a Technology Partner of the Year award. Congratulations. Yes. >> We're very, very thrilled with the recognition from Palo Alto Networks for the Technology Partner of the Year. >> Congrats. >> Thank you Keep up the great partnership. Thank you so much. We appreciate your insights. >> Thank you so much. >> For our guest, and for Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin, live in Las Vegas. You watching theCUBE, the leader in live enterprise and emerging tech coverage. (upbeat music)

>>Hey everyone. Welcome back to the Cube's live coverage of AWS Reinvent 2022. This is day one, I should say evening one of three and a half days of wall to wall coverage on the cube. Lisa Martin here with Dave Ante. Dave, we love talking about data, but the most important thing about data is if there's a breach, which are happening more and more frequently, that you can get it back. So data backup, data protection, data resiliency, hugely >>Important. Well, it used to be you got snake bit and then you closed the barn door after the horse ran away. Now I think people are a lot more aware that they gotta protect their data and be proactive about it. It can't just be an afterthought. >>It can't be an afterthought. We've got the CTO of own backup here. We're gonna be talking about that Adrian Consul. Adrian, welcome to the Cube. >>Thanks for having me. >>Talk a little bit about own backup. The what is unique about it? >>So we are the leading SaaS data protection vendor. We've built a business based on the fact that SAS has become a center of gravity for a lot of companies. Now, a lot of people have moved with digital transformation and more recently with the covid effects to digitize their business. Our platform is powered by aws. We've got 5,000 plus customers that trust what we do and to look after their data. We help them with resiliency, compliance, security, and we do it for people who are using Salesforce, ServiceNow, and Microsoft Dynamics 365 people >>Are gonna say, wait a minute, my data in the cloud isn't already backed up. Why do I Right. That's what they're gonna say. So how do you >>Respond? Yes. Lots of people say that. That is exactly right. So what people are beginning to realize much more is that there's actually a shared responsibility model between your SaaS provider and yourselves. And you know, the SaaS providers do a phenomenal job of giving you disaster recovery, a database copy, networking infrastructure, a bunch of security controls at that level. But they're pretty frank about the data you put in there is your data, right? And just that it's up to you to put the data in there. It's also up to you to keep it in there. And that's not so easy when you've got lots of integrations. You've got users running around in the applications, et cetera. So yeah, the heart of it is, it's your data, you put it in there, you better be looking after it too. >>That's so important for customers to understand what is Salesforce's responsibility? What's my responsibility to the really nail that? What are some of the main challenges as we see the cybersecurity landscape has changed so much in the last couple of years? Ransomware is now a, when it's gonna happen to us. How often, what's gonna be the significance? What are some of the main challenges that you're talking with customers about these days? >>So really on the data side, it definitely hinges around ransomware. But I would also say when you think about what digital transformation has done for customers, moved you to a world where you've gotta be on 24 7, right? You can't afford to have systems down, whether that's your public website or even things your salespeople are using. And so on the, on the data side, we talk a lot with our customers about really recovery. Not so much about backup. Backup is in our name, but our product is called Recover. And there's a reason for that. We're trying to focus on how can we help customers quickly get back to a good state when they've had an incident. So that's kind of the data side of it. On the security side of it, it's really about how do they manage all the controls that SaaS providers now give them. >>Make sure the right people in their organization can see the right data and the data. They should not be able to see the data they shouldn't be able to see. And that's just getting increasingly complex, really anchored around the fact that the volume of the data is growing, the complexity of that data is growing and really the sensitivity of that data is growing, right? When you think about all the data privacy rules, 10 years ago we didn't care about keeping a whole bunch of data around. Now you've kind of gotta get rid of it. So you've actually gotta manage it through its lifecycle. >>So the shared responsibility model has applied to data protection is, is kind of an interesting topic cuz you always think about it for security and I know security and data protection are these adjacencies, but it's a complicated situation cuz you've got shared responsibility models now across multiple clouds. It's gotta be way more complicated across SaaS because you've got different policies, you've got a lot more SaaS than you have. There's three clouds, four, if you put in Alibaba, you know, and yeah, I know this hosting and Oracle and IBM, et cetera, but hyperscalers and so, but there's dozens if not hundreds of SaaS products at a company. So are you able to create a consistent experience and, and for your customers across all those, now of course, I know you're not doing hundreds and thousands of SaaS products, but you got, you know, pretty big ones here. ServiceNow, Salesforce, right? 365. Let's start >>There. So, so consistency we are hoping will come honestly where the industry is right now. It's getting, getting each one in a state where you are comfortable with it, >>Right? Get it protected. >>Yeah. Take a sales force. A typical sales force environment right now has a survey we did recently, about 2000 fields that have sensitive data in it in some way, shape or form. You've couple that with about 80, 85% of the users can see some fields that are sensitive. How you manage that matrix is, is just really hard. And that's part of what our secure product brings to the table, helps you understand who can see what and why they can see it. >>So where are your customer conversations these days? Are you talking to CIOs and CISOs? Is this, is this at that level >>It for some of our customers? Yes, it absolutely gets there. The, the real core of our discussion is the guy who owns and runs the sales technology, for example, right? Or the ServiceNow technology or typically a center of excellence. Those have been, those have been a key way for us to help an organization understand what the risks are, what's necessary, what they're having to do given that they don't have a backup now and have those, those shared responsibility model conversations. That's kind of where >>It starts. Are you finding that most customers are not backing up Salesforce, for example, or ServiceNow? Or are they switching from a competitor over to own back? >>Sad to say that it's mostly not. Yeah, it's, it's predominantly, I thought my cloud provider had me covered for that. >>So the market is huge. Yes. Massive opportunity. Yeah. >>Yeah. If you think of the number of Salesforce instances, not ignoring ServiceNow and Dynamics for a moment, Salesforce talks about, I don't know, 150,000 customers somewhere in that mark and we have 500 of them. >>So how do you get the first penguin off the iceberg? What's the sort of customer conversation like just in terms of, you know, educating them and sending them and, and kind of pushing 'em over the edge so that they actually do start protecting their data? >>Yeah, so, so sadly it sometimes starts with, I had a data loss, I spent weeks working at it, I got 75% of my data back, but not all of it. And that's a real customer quote. And in other cases it's, sorry. In other cases it's how do we, you know, how are you thinking about your sales source environment, particularly customers that have a lot of them, how sensitive is the data? How critical is the data in there? What are you doing to protect it? Today we have some people doing, doing weekly exports, which Salesforce provides. It's a manual step. The first penguin off the iceberg, as you say, it's kind of to say, Hey, well why didn't you automate that? Right? Don't have to rely on somebody on a Tuesday pulling the data down. So that's, those are places where it starts. >>Yeah. So, you know, Lisa, I was saying earlier that, you know, it closed the barn door, right? And that's, that's essentially what Adrian's saying is you've, you've got, you basically gotta look for that customer that's been snake bitten. Yeah. But generally speaking, I feel like there's more awareness. I was gonna ask you, you know, in this economic climate is, is data protection recession proof? And I think it's, it's not right. People sort of, but at the same time, if you're not proactive about it, you really could hurt your business. Absolutely. So what, what are your thoughts on customers getting more efficient with regard to their, their data estate, their data protection? Can you turn it into a positive? >>I think, I think it absolutely is a positive. Obviously we're in an environment where CIOs are having to look at every penny they're spending. But if you think about what you're using the data for, you're making business decisions based on this data every day. Your, your entire organization is making business decisions. So if you've got missing data or inaccurate data, you're making suboptimal decisions, right? So that comes back to data protection, comes back to brand reputation. Yes. And it comes back to how quickly can you get the data back into the shape you need it to be. And that again, is why we focus on the recovery side of the equation, not just the backup side. Right. Sorry. I would also say that in these recession bit times you've got fewer people doing as much work as you had before that raises the chance of errors. And we see across our customer base 50% of the data corruption or or data loss occurrences happen cause a human did something by mistake. Yeah, sure. And if you up the, the stress of those humans, you're gonna get more errors. >>Should you, when you're talking with IT professionals or maybe sales leaders, should it be thinking differently about spend for data protection versus general spend? Given that the whole point is to be able to recover data when something happens? >>I think you have to think about it from a kind of a risk and a business continuity perspective, right? Data protection tangibly reduces your business risk, right? It gets you back up faster. It, it helps you stay running. It helps ensure that the right people have access to the right data and from a secure standpoint and, and all of those just lower your risk. And if you're having discussions as CIOs should be with their business counterparts around business continuity, with the criticality of the data that's in Salesforce and these other SaaS applications today, I think it's pretty obvious that, that you should have a strong data protection strategy around >>It. Absolutely. >>Your business is at >>Risk, right? And nobody wants to be the next headline. No. My last question for you, Adrian, is if there was a billboard near your headquarters, what's that? What would it say? What's that tagline about own backup that really nails it home? >>I think it's, nobody operating in the cloud should ever lose data and that's what we're here to do. >>Excellent. Adrian, it's been a pleasure having you on the program. Thank you for talking with David, me, great talking to you about and back up what you guys are doing and really how organizations need to be very aware of that shared responsibility model. It sounds like you guys are well on your way to helping them understand that. We appreciate your time. >>Thank you both. Thank you. Best of luck. >>Appreciate it. Thank our pleasure. For our guest and Dave Ante, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching The Cube, the leader in emerging and enterprise tech coverage.

>>long from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering a ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners. >>Welcome back to the Cube. We are in Las Vegas, Lisa Martin with John Wall's. I'm very excited that we're kind of color coordinated >>way. Didn't compare notes to begin with, but certainly the pink thing. It's worth it if >>you like. You complete me. >>Oh, thank you. Really, Joe, I don't hear that very often. My wife says that >>you tell that we're at the end of day one of the coverage of A W s three in bed. Good day, though. Yes, it has been very excited. We have a couple of guests joining us for our final segment on this. Please welcome. We have Bill Gerard CTO of Digital Transformation and Scale solutions at Intel Bill, welcome to our show. >>Thank you very much. Happy to be here >>And one of our friends. That's no stranger to the Cube. One of our former host, Bobby Allyn, the CEO of Cloud Generate. Bobby. >>Thank you. Thank you for having us. >>Guys, here we are. This there has not been a lull in the background noise all day. Not reinvent day one. But Bobby want to start with you. Talk to her audience about cloud genera. Who are you guys? What do you do? And what's different about what you're delivering? >>One of the first things is different about Claude Generous where we're located. So we're in Charlotte, which I call Silicon South. So we're kind of representing the East Coast, and we're a company that focuses, focuses on helping with workload, placement and transformation. So where you don't know whether something should go on from off grim. If you put it in Amazon, which service's should have consumed licensing models? Pricing models way help you make data driven decisions, right? So you're not just going based on opinion, you're going based on fact. >>And that's challenging because, you know, in the as, as John Ferrier would say, No Cloud Wanda Otto, which was compute network storage, it was the easy I shouldn't say easy, but the lift and shit applications that enterprises do are these workloads should go to the cloud. Now we have you know what's left over, and that's challenging for organization. Some of the legacy once can't move. How do you help from a Consul Tatum's down point that customers evaluate workloads? What data are they running? What the value that data has and if they are able to move some of those more challenging applications. >>So part of the framework for us, Lisa, is we want to make sure we understand what people are willing and able to change right, because sometimes it's not just about lower costs. Sometimes it's about agility, flexibility, deploying a different region. So what we often start with his wit is better look like you would assist us with life for your organization. And so then, based on that, we analyze the applications with an objective, data driven framework and then make sure the apse land where they're supposed to go. We're not selling any skewer product. We're selling advice to give you inside about what you should do, >>Bobby, I think. And maybe Bill to you could chime in here on this. If you give people a choice, What does this look like? What you know, What do you want? I don't want to do anything right. I want to stay put, right? But that obviously that's not an option, But you I'm sure you do get pushed back quite a bit from these almost the legacy mindset. And we've talked a lot about this whole transformation versus transition. Some people don't want to go, period. So how do you cajole them? Persuade them bring them along on this journey? Because it's gonna be a long trip. Yeah, I think you gotta pack a lunch. >>It's a good point. I think what we've seen, most of them have data experience that this is a tried and elements didn't get the results that they expected. This is where you know, the partnership that we have with call General. Really? You know that data driven, intelligent, based planning is super important, right? We want to really fundamentally health organizations move the right workloads, make sure they get the right results and not have to redo it. Right? And so part of that, you know, move when you're either past scars or not used to what you're doing. Give him the data and the information to be able to do that intelligently and make that as fast as they can. And you know, at the right, you know, experience in performance from a capability perspective. >>So so many businesses these days, if they're not legacy if they're not looking in the rear view mirror, what is the side mirror site? Objects are closer than they appear, even for Amazon. Right? For all of these companies, there are smaller organizations that might be born in a cloud compared to the legacy two words. And if they're not looking at, we have to transform from the top down digitally, truly transform. Their business may not be here in a year or two, so the choice and I think they need to pack a lunch and a hip flask for this because it's quite the journey. But I'm curious with the opportunity that cloud provides. When you have these consultation conversations, what are This? Could be so transformative not just to a business, but to a do an entire industry. Bill talked to us from your perspective about some of the things that you've seen and how this next generation of cloud with a I machine learning, for example, can can really transfer like what's the next industry that you think is prime to be really flipped upside down? >>Well, the good news is I think most of the industries in the segment that we talked to have realized they need to some level of transformation. So doing the business as usual really isn't an option to really grow and drive in the future. But I do think the next evolution really does center on what's happening in a I and analytics. Whether it's, you know, moving manufacturing from video based defect detection, supply chain integrity. You know what's happening from a retail was really the first in that evolution, but we see it in health care in Federal Data Center modernization, and it's really moving at a faster pace and adopting those cloud technologies wherever they needed, both in their data center in the public, cloud out of the edge. And we'll start to see a real shift from really consolidation in tow. Large hyper converts, data centers to distributed computing where everything again. And that's where we're excited about the work we're doing with the Amazon, the work we're doing with Eyes V partners to be at the capability where they need it, but I think it will be really the next. Evolution of service is everywhere. >>Never talk us through an example or use case of a customer that you're working with, a cloud genera with intel and and a W S. What does that trifecta look like for, say, a retailer or financial service is organization >>so that that looks like this? ELISA. When we when we talk about workload placement, we think that most companies look at that as a single question. It's at least a five fold question. Right there is the venue. There's the service. There's the configuration, the licensing model and the pricing model. You need to look at all five of those things. So even if you decided on a DBS is your strategic partner, we're not done yet. So we have a very large financialservices customer that I can't name publicly. But we've collaborated with them to analyze tens of thousands of workloads, some that go best off from some that go best on for him. And they need guidance and coaching on things like, Are you paying for redhead twice your pay for licensing on him? Are you also paying for that in the cloud? There are things that maybe should be running an RT s database as a service. Here's your opportunity to cut down on labor and shift some of the relationships tohave, toe re index and databases is not glamorous or differential to value for your business. Let's take advantage of what a TBS does well and make this better for your company. One of the things that I want to kind of introduce to piggyback on your question. We lean on people process technology as kind of the three, the three legged horse in the Enterprise. I want to change that people process product or people process problem. We're falling in love with the tech and getting lazy. Technology should be almost ubiquitous or under the covers to make a product better or to solve a problem for the customer. >>Well, maybe on that, I mean automation concern to come in and make a big play here because we're taking all these new tasks if you could automate them that you free your people, your developers to do their thing right. So you raise an interesting point on that about being lazy and relying on things. But yet you do want off put our offload some of these nasty not to free up that creativity and free up the people to do what they're supposed to be doing. It's a delicate balance, though, isn't it? It is. It is. This >>is where I think the data driven, you know, informed decisions important. We did a lot of research with Cloud Jenner and our customers, and there's really four key technical characteristics when evaluating workload. The 1st 1 of course, is the size of the data. Where is the created words They use Words that consumed the 2nd 1? Is the performance right? Either performance not only to other systems around it or the end user, but the performance of the infrastructure. What do you need out of the capability? The level of integration with other systems? And then, of course, security. We hear that time and again, right? Regulatory needs. What are we having from top secret data to company sensitive data? Really Getting that type of information to drive those workload placement decision becomes at the forefront of that on getting, you know, using cloud gender to help understand the number of interfaces in and out the sides of the data. The performance utilization of the system's really helps customers understand how to move the right workload. What's involved and then how to put that in the right eight of us instance, and use the right ideas capabilities, >>and you and you both have hit on something here because the complexity of this decision, because it's multi dimensional, you talked about the five points a little bit ago. Now you talked about four other factors. Sue, this is not a static environment, No, and to me that as you're making a decision, that point is what's very difficult for, I would assume for the people that you're interfacing with on the company level. Yes, because it's a moving target for them, right? They just it's it's dynamic and changing your data flows exponentially. Increasing capabilities are changing. How do you keep them from just breaking down? >>I don't want to jump in on that, because again, I'm going to repeat this again. That my thesis is often technology is the easy part. We need to have conversations about what we want to do. And so I had a conversation earlier today. Think of Amazon like a chef. They could make anything I want, but I need to decide what I want to eat. If I'm a vegan and he wants steak. That's not Amazons fault. If they can't cook something, that's a mismatch of a bad conversation. We need to communicate. So what I'm finding is a lot of executives are worried about this. There were Then you're going to give me the right the wrong answer to the right question. The reality is you may have the wrong question. First of all right, the question is usually further upstream, so the worry that you're gonna give me the wrong answer to the right question. But often you need to worry that you're getting your starting with the wrong question. You're gonna get the right answer asked the right question first. And then you got a chance to get to the final destination. But >>and then he in this multi cloud world that many organizations live in, mostly not My strategy could be by Emma A could be bi developer preference for different solutions. A lot of Serios air telling us we've inherited a lot of this multi cloud and technical debt. Exactly. So does not just compound the problem because to your point, I mean you think of one way we hear so many different stats about the number of clouds that on average enterprises using is like 5 to 9. That whole world. That's a reality for organizations. So in terms of how the business can be transformed by what you guys are doing together, it seems like there's a tremendous opportunity there. But to your point, Bobby, where do you start? How do you help them understand what? That right first question is at the executive level so that those four technical points that Bill talked about Tek thee you know, the executive staff is all on board with Yes, this is the question we're asking then will understand it. The technology is right. Sold >>it. It's got to start with, Really? What? The company's business imperatives, right? It can't start with an I t objective. It's it's Are we moving into new markets? Do we need thio deploy capabilities faster? Are we doing a digital customer experience? Transformation? Are we deploying new factories, new products into new regions, and so really the first areas? What's the core company strategy, imperatives of the business objectives? And >>then how >>does I t really help them achieve that? In some cases, it may be we have to shift and reduce our data center footprints way have to move capabilities to where we have a new region. Deployments, right? We've got to get him over to Europe. We don't have capabilities in Europe. We're going to Asia. I've got a mobile sales force now where I need to get that customer, meet the customer where they're doing, you know, in the retail store, and >>that >>really then leads quite simply, too. What are the capabilities that we have in house that we're using? >>How are >>they being utilized? And he's using them, and then how do we get them to where they need to be? Some cases accost, imperative. Some cases and agility, Time to market and another's and we're seeing this more often is really what are the new sets of technologies? A. I service is training in forgetting that we're not experience to do and set up, and we don't want to spend the time to go train our infrastructure teams on the technology. So we'll put our data scientists in there figuring out the right set of workloads, the right set of technology, that we can then transform and move our applications to utilize it really starts, I think with the business conversation, or what's the key inflection point that they're experiencing? >>And have you seen that change in the last few years that now it's where you know, cloud not cloud. What goes on Cloud was an I t conversation to your point, Bill. And then the CEO got involved in a little bit later. But now we're we're seeing and hearing the CEO has got to be involved from a business imperative perspective. >>Share some data, right? Uh, so, you know, a couple of years ago, everybody was pursuing cloud largely for cost. Agility started to become primary, and that's still very important. A lot of the internal enterprise data modernizations were essentially stalled a bit because they were trying to figure how much do we move to the the public cloud, right. We want to take advantage of those modern service is at that time, we did a lot of research with our partners. He was roughly 56% of enterprise workload for in their own data center. You know, the rest of them Republic Cloud. And then we saw really the work, the intelligent workload discussion that says we've had some false starts. Organizations now really consistently realize they need both, you know, their own infrastructure and public cloud, and we've actually seen on increase of infrastructure modernization. While they're moving more and more stuff to the cloud, they're actually growing there on centre. It's now roughly 59% on Prem today for that same business, and that's largely because they're using more. Cloud service is that they're also even using Maur on premise, and they're realizing it's a balance and not stalling one or starving one and then committing to the other the committing to both and really just growing the business where it needs to go. >>Strategic reasons. All right? >>Yes, well, there should be four strategic reasons. There aren't always back to your question about which question asked. One of the questions I often ask is, What do you think the benefits will be if you go to cloud? And part of what happens is is not a cloud capability? Problem is an expectation problem. You're not gonna put your GOP system in the cloud and dropped 30% costs in a month, and so that's where we need to have a conversation on, You know, let's iterating on what this is actually gonna look like. Let's evolve the organization. Let's change our thinking. And then the other part of this and this were clouded or an intel come in. Let's model with simulation looks like. So we're gonna take those legacy work clothes unless model containers. Let's model Micro Service is so before you have to invest in transformation to may not make sense. Let's see what the outcome's look like through simulation through a through M l and understand. Where does it make sense to apply? The resource is, you know, to double click on that solution that will help the business. >>I was gonna finish my last question, Bobby, with you saying, Why, Cloud General? But I think you just answered that. So last question for you, though, from from an expectation perspective, give me one of your favorite examples of customer whatever kind of industry there and that you've come in and helped them really level, set their expectations and kick that door wide open. >>That's tough, many >>to choose from. >>Yeah, let me let me try to tackle that one quickly. Store's computer databases. Those are all things that people look at I think what people are struggling with the most in terms of kind of expectations is what they're willing and able to change. So this is kind of what I leave on. Bill and I talked about this earlier today. A product is good, a plan is better. A partnership is best. Because with the enterprises of saying is, we're overwhelmed. Either fix it for me or get in there with me and do it right. Be in this together. So what we've learned is it's not about were close applications. It's all kind of the same. We need help. We're overwhelmed. I want a partner in telling Claude Juncker the get in this thing with me. Help me figure this out because I told you this cloud is at best a teenager. They just learned how to drive is very capable, but it needs some guard rails. >>I love that. Thanks you guys So much for explaining with Johnny what you guys are doing together and how you're really flipping the model for what customers need to be evaluated and what they need to be asking. We appreciate your time. >>Thank you for having us >>our pleasure. Thank you. for John Wall's I'm Lisa Martin. You've been watching the Cube at Reinvent 19 from Vegas. Wants to go tomorrow.

>> Announcer: Live from Austin, Texas, it's theCUBE, covering Kubecon and CloudNativeCon 2017. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Linux Foundation, and theCUBE's ecosystem partners. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. This is theCUBE's exclusive coverage. We are live in Austin, Texas for CloudNativeCon and KubeCon, not to be confused with CUBE, 'cause we don't have a CUBE Con yet, C-U-B-E. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. Next is Armon Dadgar who is the founder and CTO of HashiCorp. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thanks so much for having me. >> Thanks for coming on. So we interviewed your partner in crime Mitchell years ago, and we were riffing in our studio in Palo Alto, and essentially we laid out microsurfaces and all the stuff that's being worked on today. So, congratulations, you guys were right in your bet? >> It's funny to see how the reaction has changed over the last few years. Back then it used to be, we'd go in and it's like, people are like, did you catch a load of those crazy people who came in and talked about microsurfaces, and immutable, and cloud? It's like, get out of here. And now it's funny to be here at KubeCon, and it's like-- >> Well it was fun days back then, it was the purest in DevOps, and I say purest, I mean people who were really cutting their teeth into the new methodology, the new way to develop, the new way to kind of roll out scale, a lot of the challenges involved. Certainly, now it's gone mainstream. >> Armon: Yeah. >> You're seeing no doubt about it, I just came back from re:Invent, from AWS, Lambda, Server List. You got application developers that just don't want to deal with any infrastructure. That's infrastructure as code in the DevOps ethos, and then you got a lot of people in the infrastructure plumbing, and App plumbing world, who actually care about all this stuff, provisioning. So, how are you guys fitting into the new landscape? You guys riding along? Were you guys the first ones paddling out to these waves? How do you guys at HashiCorp look at all this growth? >> So the way we think about it is, I think there's a lot of market confusion right now, just because there's so much happening, and I mean, even just being here it's like, almost overwhelming to just like understand what exactly is this market landscape evolving to? And the way we're thinking about it is, there's really these four discrete layers with the four different people that are involved in tech, right? We have, on one side, we have our IT operators that are just trying to get a handle around, how do I provision things in Amazon, and now I have business groups coming and saying, okay I want to provision in Google, cloud and Azure. How do I really do that in way that I don't lose my sanity? You have your security people who are saying, I've lost my network perimeter, now what? Like, how do I think about secret management, and app identity, and this brave new world of cloud. You have your app developers who are like, I don't care about any of that, just give me a platform where I can push deploy and out the gate it goes, and you deal with it. And then you have the folks that are kind of making it all kind of plug together and work, the networking backbone, who is saying okay, before it was F5 and Juniper and Cisco. What does it mean for me as I'm going cloud? So, the way we're sorting of seeing ourself involved in all of this is, how do we help operators sort of get a handle around the provisioning side, with things like Terraform? How do we help the security folks with tools like Volt? How do we complement things like Kubernetes at the runtime layer, or provide our solution with Nomad, and then on the networking side, how do we provide a consistent service discovery experience with Consul? >> So you guys are really just now just kind of riding in with everybody else, kind of welcoming everybody to the party, if you will. (Armon laughs) What's the big surprise for you as you guys, you know it's not new to you guys, but as you see it evolving, what's jumping out at you? I mean, we're hearing service mesh, pluggable architectures. What are some of the things that's popping out of the woodwork that you're excited about? >> Honestly, the thing that I'm excited about is the excitement about infrastructure, right? I mean, when we started four, five years ago, it was an ice cold market. You'd go and talk to people, like, let's talking about how you're doing provisioning, or your deployment, or how your developers push things, and people were like, do we really have to? Like, let me get a coffee. And now it's like the opposite. It's like people are so excited to talk about the infrastructure, the bits and bytes of it, and I think that for us is probably the most exciting thing. So, whether you come here, and it's like the vibe is electric, right? Like, you guys can attest to it. It's crazy to see the growth of it, and so what's exciting for us is now these conversations are being lit up all across industry. >> Yeah. >> So whether you're talking about hey, how do I provision a thing on cloud, to what's a scheduler and how does that help me, there is this tremendous interest in it. >> Yeah, Armon, take us inside. You talked about, you know, it used to be kind of, we would be talking, is infrastructure boring? What is that change that's happening in customers? Has it just reached a certain maturity level, that now the business, they need to move faster, and therefore I need to adopt these kinds of architectures? What are you seeing when you're talking to customers? >> Yeah, I think that, the sort of, we heard that, the sort of, the line a few times is it's becoming boring, but I think what, and sometimes that's the goal, right? All of these tools, all of infrastructure is plumbing, at the end of the day, right? At the end of the day, the applications of the end users is really what should be, sort of, the exciting bit. And so, it's our responsibility, sort of, as the vendors here in the community, working on the infrastructure, to make the stuff boring. And I think, in that case, what we really mean is that it should be so reliable, so well documented, so scalable that it's brain dead to operate these things. And I think, step one is, let's get people excited about what's the state of the possible, what's the art of the possible in terms of, what do I get in terms of business agility of adopting stuff? Once people start adopting it, let's make it boring for them. Let's make them sure they don't regret it, and that they actually see those benefits. >> Well, it's reliable too. Boring equals reliability. >> Exactly, exactly. >> Yeah, it's interesting. When you walk through the provision, secure, connect, and run, it reminded me a little bit of Chen talking in the Keynote this morning about kind of the stack they see Kubernetes playing. >> Armon: Totally. >> You know, there's some people who will probably look, well, HashiCorp, you guys, you have a platform. You've got some of these projects. Is that, what's compatible, what's replaceable? What's the connection between what you are doing and what's happening in this space? >> Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, think a lot of people are like "Is it odd for HashiCorp to be here?" And I think it goes back to our lens on this market, Which is. we want to provide tools that are sort of discrete in each of these categories and we fully know that customers are not going to go all in on HashiCorp and say, I want all four layers, right? A lot of our customers are Kubernetes users. And so, for us the mission is, okay great, how do we make sure Terraform plays nice with Kubernetes? How do we make sure Vault plays nice? So I actually have a session in about an hour and a half here, talking about Vault integration with Kubernetes. And then, we have a developer advocate talking about using Console with Kubernetes as well. So for us, it's really a play nice story. How do we make all of these work together. >> It's a rising-tide-that-floats-all-boats market, I mean this is what's happening. You guys are actors in the ecosystem. It's not a land grab. No-one can own the stack. That's the whole point of this ecosystem, isn't it? >> It's so big, right, this market that we are talking about is so enormous. It's every organization writing software. (laughing) >> All right, give us the update on HashiCorp. What's going on, what's the latest and greatest you guys are out starting? We interviewed you guys about, I think three years ago, maybe four. Can't even remember now at this point. It seems like a blur. >> Yeah, I mean, so two months ago was our big HashiCom for our user com friends. And for us, the focus has really been saying okay, we've got our initial set of open-source tools out on the market in 2015. And we said okay, lets take a pause. There's already so many tools, lets just focus on how do we make the practitioners successful with each of these things and really go deep on all of them. And so, with things like Terraform, we've been partnering with all the various cloud providers, right, to say how do we have first class support for Azure, and Google Cloud and Amazon and make sure that you know, as you're adopting these clouds, Terraform meet you there. And then with things like Vault it's how do we integrate with every platform companies want to be on. So if you're using Kubernetes, how do we make sure Vault meets you there and integrates? So, for us that's been the focus, is staying sort of focused on the six core tools, and saying, "How do we make sure "they're staying up to date as technology moves?" And sort of deepening them. >> Yeah, because your users are going to be leveraging a lot of the new stuff. They're going to be, Kubernetes has certainly been great. What's your take on Kubernetes, if you can just take a minute to just, I mean, not new to this notion of runtime and orchestration. We talked about it with Mitchell in our session years ago, we didn't actually say Kubernetes, it wasn't around then, but we talked about the middleware of the cloud. That was our discussion, and that was essentially called Pass at that time, but now, no one talks about Pass any more, it's all kind of one. >> Right, right. >> What's your take on Kubernetes? How do you feel about it? What is it to you? >> Right, yeah, I think that's, so I think, twofold: I think what's exciting for me about it is, it reminds me in some sense like what Docker did for the industry, which, if we went to sort of the pre-Docker world nobody talked about immutable artifact based deploys. It was like this esoteric thing and then all of a sudden over night Docker made it popular. Whereas like, oh yeah, of course everything should be immutable and artifact based. And then when you look at what Kubernetes has done, it's built on that momentum to say, okay, that was step one. Step two is to say, you really should think about all your machines as a sort of shared pool of resources and move the abstraction up to the application to the service and think about, I'm deploying a service, I'm not deploying a set of VMs. And so it's been this sort of tidal shift in how IT thinks about deploying and delivering in application. It actually should be focused on the service. Focus on sort of abstracting away the machine, and that's super exciting. >> And what do you think the benefits will be with the impact of the marketplace? Faster development, I mean, what's some of the impact that you see coming out of this to go to the next level? >> Yeah, I mean the impact for me is really saying, when we really look at these approaches, in some sense they are not new, if you look at what Google's been doing since the early 2000s with Board, what Amazon's been doing, what Facebook's been doing internally. These big tech companies have showed if you are able to move up the abstraction and provide this higher level of utility to developers, you can support tens of thousands of services, innovate much more quickly, and for a while, that was sort of trapped in these big tech companies. And I think what Kubernetes is really doing is bringing that to everybody else and saying, actually adopting the same strategy lets you have that, right? >> Yeah, its a maturation of open source of this generation. You look at what Lyft, Uber are doing. Look at the Open Tracing for instance, pretty interesting stuff, because I mean they had to build their own stuff. >> Armon: Right. >> At scale, massive scale. Not like, you know, hundreds of thousands of services, millions of transactions a second. >> Armon: Right. >> I mean, that's daunting. >> That's daunting. >> Okay, so your take on open source. Okay, because now we're seeing a new generation of developers coming online. I've been saying it's been, a renaissance is coming. More of an artisan, a craft coming back to craftsmanship of coding. Not like UX Design side, become a craft in code. So you got a new, younger generation coming up. They don't even know what a load balancer is. >> Right. But they're happy not to deal with that as you said. And then you've got open source growing exponentially. Jim Zemlin at the Linux Foundation is saying 10% of the IP is going to be unique to the company. The rest is going to be that sandwich of open source. That's exponential growth. >> Right. >> You get exponential growth, new wave of software developers. You're a young gun, what's your view of the future? >> I mean, its funny, because it's like that first derivative is going exponential. The second derivative is going exponential. You know, I think we're going to see more and more innovation at the, ultimately what it's really about is delivering at the end application layer, right? Like, we're all here to be plumbing, right, and so the better we can be at being plumbing, the better the application developers can be at delivering innovation there. And so, I totally agree that the trend is going to go 90/10. And I think that was partly one of the reasons we started HashiCorp, because we'd look around and we're like it's insane that you have 30 to 50% of these companies doing platform engineering that's completely undifferentiated from anyone else. It's like you're deploying on the same vSphere VM as your competitor but you're rebuilding the whole platform. It's crazy, it's like you should have used an open source tool and focused on the application and not how to boot a vSphere into it. >> And the impact cost and time. >> Armon, one of the things we talk about, the only thing constant in this industry is that the pace of change keeps increasing. How are you dealing internally? How are customers doing? I think back two years, a year and a half ago I talked to a guy who was like, "Oh, Vagrant is like my favorite thing, "I've been using it ever." Now I talk to lots of customers that are, Vault is critical to their stacks that they're doing. HashiCorp looks very different than they did two years ago. How's that pace of change happening internally and with customers? >> Totally, and I think part of what we've done as actually since 2015 we haven't really introduced brand new products because our feeling is that it's becoming so confusing for the end users to really navigate this landscape. So, in 2015 we thought the landscape was confusing. Today it's multiplied by 100 or 1,000. >> We were at Amazon last week, we understand. >> Yeah, exactly. And I think honestly I think that is, when you look around here I think that's one of the challenges we're facing as an industry, is I go and meet with customers who are like, "Every time I refresh Hacker News, "there's 50 new things I need to go evaluate." It's like I don't know where to even begin. And its like, as a vendor I have a hard time keeping up with space, you know. I empathize with the end user who, it's not their full time job to do that. So, our goal has been to say how do we better distill at least the HashiCorp universe in terms of hey, here's how our pieces fit together and here's how we relate to everything else in the ecosystem, and kind of give our end users a map of okay, what tools play nice, how do these things sort of work together. But I think as a bigger industry we have a bit of an issue around the sheer amount of sort of innovation. How do we curate that and really make it more accessible? >> Armon, I've got to ask you a personal question. Obviously you guys are entrepreneurs doing a great job. Been following you guys, congratulations by the way. What are you most proud of as you look back and what do you wish you could do over? If you could get a mulligan and say "Okay, I want to do that differently." >> How much time do we have by the way? (laughing) >> 10 seconds, I'm going to ask you the parachute question next, go ahead. >> You know, I think the thing we're most proud of might be Terraform. I think it's fun to see sort of the level of ubiquity and the standardization that is taking place around it. Ah, the thing I wish we could take back is you know, probably our Otto project. I think the scope was so big for that thing and I think our eyes were probably a little wider than they should have been on that one. So I wish we had not committed to that one. >> You reign it in, catch the mistakes early. Okay, final question for you. You're a large customer and the plane is going down, you have 10 seconds to pick a parachute. Amazon, Azure or Google. Which one do you grab? >> Ooh. >> Go. >> You know, probably Amazon. No one ever gets fired for choosing Amazon. >> All right well Jeff Frick on our CUBE team said, "I'd take all three and call it Multi Cloud." >> That's the right answer. Armon, thanks for coming on appreciate it. Congratulations on your success at HashiCorp. >> My pleasure, thanks so much for having me. >> Got HashiCorp here on theCUBE, CTO and co-founder on theCUBE, Riding The Wave, CloudNative, Kupernetes, lot of great stuff happening. Microservices and containers. It's theCUBE doing our part here at KubeCon. We'll be right back with more live coverage after this short break.

>> Voiceover: Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCube, covering Sapphire Now. Headline sponsored by SAP HANA Cloud, the leader in platform-as-a-service, with support from Consul, Inc, the Cloud internet company. Now here are your hosts, John Furrier and Peter Burris. >> Everyone, we are live in Orlando, Florida for a special presentation of theCube at SAP Sapphire Now's theCube SiliconANGLE's flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signal from noise. I'm John Furrier, with my co-host Peter Burris Want to give a shout out to our sponsors. Without them, we would not be here. SAP HANA Cloud Platform Console Inc, Capgemini and EMC, thanks for your support, really excited to be here. Wall-to-wall coverage, three days. Over forty videos going to be hitting YouTube: SiliconANGLE.com/youtube. Our next guest is Dan Lahl, VP of SAP HANA Cloud Platform Product Marketing, welcome to theCube, thanks for having us. >> Thank you, John. You got all that out without a stumble. That was fantastic. >> I memorize it. >> That's great. >> Without our sponsors, we wouldn't be here, thank you very much. Thanks to you, and it's a been great support from you and your team. Really appreciate it, welcome to theCube. >> Love being here. You guys have something very unique in how you bring a play-by-play but from an analyst's perspective, very, very unique. >> Someone called me Pat Summerall, and Peter, John Madden yesterday, which was a great compliment because our lives are ESPN of tech. >> And I like it because it means I'm the better looking one. >> Exactly. >> NFL Gameday, but the game is on. >> Peter: Who's a guy? >> John: Boom! (laughs) >> Boom the Cloud is here! >> It's the whiteboard. But all seriously, great conversation. One of the things that's emerging out of the whole HANA Cloud Platform Ecosystem play is that it's really buzzing, and it's not like sizzle, but it's steak on the grill as well. So, just a lot of meat on the bone and the thing that we're seeing is that SAP has been putting themselves out there with tech. And not trying to do the land grab, not saying, hey, we're SAP and this is all a marketing program to get more SAP share for our other stuff. There's clear separation between SAP stuff, whether it's, whatever the customers are buying, and then an open way for developers; both SAP developers and, now, mainstream developers, iOS and Apple so, huge shift. And the Ecosystem's super excited, so I got to ask you, how do you guys separate out the market? Explain to the folks out there how this all fits in because the HANA Cloud platform is more open, it's really non-SAP, in a way. And there's other clouds out there, and let's face it, you guys weren't getting the buzz. A little bit late to the party, and you've got the product in good position right now. But you got Amazon out there, as your Microsoft was here, you know, doing relationship with you, your partnering with Apple, IBM was on, Cisco, all the big guys are here working with you. Separate out what it means. >> So let me back up, let me back up and give you all the HANA buzzwords, we've been very confusing to the market on how we brand it to different HANA products. There's the HANA database, data managing platform, we came out with that in 2011; very similar to Oracle from SQL Interface standpoint, very different from a technology standpoint. All in memory, and everybody knows that by now. Then, we have another initiative called S/4HANA. That's taking all of the applications, putting them onto the HANA data management platform. So that's the app stack. So business suite is now S/4HANA. So data management was HANA, S/4HANA, app stack. Then we have something called the HANA Enterprise Cloud, and that's just basically a managed service. You want to take your landscape, give it to our data center, let us manage for you. >> For SAP stuff? >> SAP stuff. Yeah, not any of the red stuff or anybody else's apps but >> But some of the partner extensions? >> But some of the partner extensions, yes. And that has to be certified, but basically it's a managed service. So you want to give your data center over to SAP? Guarantee that it will run, we'll upgrade all of the apps and enhancement packs and that kind of thing. So that's HANA Enterprise Cloud. And then finally, HANA Cloud Platform is something different altogether. It really is our offer, open platform as a service. So, any of the applications that SAP is shipping today, whether that be business suite, S/4HANA, Success Factors, Ariba, Concur, Cloud for Customer, you name it, can be extended or integrated using HANA Cloud Platform. Okay, so HANA data management, HEC, the managed service, S/4HANA, the new app stack, HCP, really the extension platform for that SAP Ecosystem. Okay? Now I say that, it's an open platform. It's Java-based, can you believe it? It's not ABAP-based, it's Java-based. Node.js, all open systems. We announced at the show that we're shipping Cloud Foundry with Node.js runtimes scripting languages like Ruby and Python and PHP and Go. Databases like Mongo and Postgres and Redis, it's open systems, baby, right? >> All the tools that they are offering. >> Exactly, they can do that. Yeah. So, any programmer under 30, we can now approach and have a conversation with. They don't have to learn a German programming language, right? Now, whether it's good or bad, it doesn't make any difference, it's open systems, right? And so that's kind of the framework of what we announced. >> What's that mean to developers? Let's take that forward, okay, open cloud platform, okay, great, under 30, or, just open source is so good now all the Q&A, all the questions are on Stack Overflow and all these Node.js and technology out to be used, so that's what people want. Okay, what's the impact to me? I'm the developer. What does it mean? What's in it for me? Do I have access to all the SAP stuff? I'm used to dealing with all these different tools to put systems together. >> That's the beauty, John, is all of those tools that you use, as an open systems developer, you can now, through HANA Cloud Platform, get to the back end systems that we didn't expose before, expect through an ABAP stack. Right, you don't have to learn BAPIs, you don't have to learn ABAP. You can use your Java capabilities, using Eclipse if you want, if you want to do it on your desktop device, or use a web IDE that's Java-based, right? >> But you're exposing these through API? >> Exactly, exactly, through either APIs or through integration services, through a direct connect back to the back ends. And we not only expose data, but also processes as well, so you can take advantage of a process. One of the things we announced this week was the API Business Hub. So now, we're going to deliver a catalog of APIs, where we'll publish into and an open system developer can say Oh, what's with that management accounting services? That hooks back into S/4HANA, I just need to call the API and take advantage of those management accounting services. Very cool. >> So on the Apple relationship, which is an iOS-based thing, the developer can then go to the Enterprise customer, so this is the Ecosystem now, okay I'm a developer. I have a whitespace, I see some unique thing, a problem that my customer has, that I can solve, or I'm an entrepreneur and say Hey, you know, I have a unique idea, I want to solve that problem. I code it but I might rely on SAP data, say an ERP, I could tap that-- >> You can now tap it. >> John: And integrate it in seamlessly? >> Yes, and show it natively on an iOS device. That's what we're delivering through the ACP software development kit SDK. So you're an Apple developer today. Well, you could develop the next SnapChat or some consumer-to-consumer app. But interesting, the bulk of Apple devices or the bulk of devices in the Enterprise, are Apple devices. They're not Android devices. Apple's done some work on that, upwards of 75% are actually Apple devices. So now, you're a developer, you want to get access to all of those different applications that SAP has, delivered in beautiful 1990s master detail today. >> Let's face it, I mean, we had this comment on theCube which we concur with, the user experience of Enterprise software is dated, and old, and people are bringing their phones to work. >> That's really kind of you to say dated and old, okay? I would have said old and crappy, okay? >> No one wakes up and says, hey I can't wait to download my Enterprise app and use it on the weekend. It's like root canal, don't love it, but you need it. >> Part number 000743xp, okay so now they can get into all of those processes without having to know the back end process. Through the SDK, we're going to expose all of those. >> Share some data on some of the onboard. I know you had a lot of early adopters and now the program's ramping up. We've talked over the past year and you guys are tweaking the product. You want to make sure the product was solid, that was key. Might have been delayed a little bit, but the timing of the Apple announcement, perfect. But I can imagine that the developers are excited because certainly in the Ecosystem out there, in Silicon Valley and beyond, there's a softening, it's kind of a bubble bursting, if you will, on the consumer stuff, so there might not be a couple more unicorns. The few unicorns that come along at every cycle of innovation. But the Enterprise is hot, so the buzz on the street is the Enterprise is hot, that's where you make money. As everyone works for a revenue model, you got to break even, so, there's a big focus on that in the entrepreneurial ecosystem. So, is there an uptake that you can share or any stats on the kinds of new onboarding that you guys are doing. >> Yeah, so just this week, we also announced that IBM is taking all of their MobileFirsts for iOS applications. They're going to participate in the SDK and they're going to move all of their applications onto the HANA cloud platform. They had a beautiful UI that they built for a hundred little mobile apps that were enterprise ready, but not enterprise connected. So now they're going to connect all those hundred little apps like Find&Fix, and Parts Manager and that kind of thing. >> I can see the slogan now. Enterprise: Ready to Connect. >> Exactly. >> Connecting. >> It's pretty decent validation of some of the things we're talking about here. >> Exactly, and the HCP play in it, for SAP is that's the gearbox to get them back to all of the SAP apps. Whether they be On Premise business suite, On Premise S/4HANA, Workforce Management, with Success Factors and Fieldglass. It's the gearbox to get them back to all of those. >> So let me ask the question, you're in a private market so you've got your eye on the prize in the market, you're forward-facing, but also you've got to work with the product teams and deal with that. Do you see a window of opportunity right now? Because the timing of having the product ready with HANA Cloud Platform plus the Apple relationship and the IBM stuff, which is more validation, a window of opportunity, the wind is at your back. This window, you've got a short window to kind of go out and win. Are you worried about that? Are you guys investing heavily now, do you see now a time to throttle it up and pedal to medal, straight and narrow, 90 miles an hour? >> You know, I actually see it as the wave is forming. Okay, I don't think our customer base knows that much about HANA Cloud Platform, it really has its coming out party at TechWave, last October. It's now exposed to the business group. We had the techie outage, now its the business outing. I see the wave starting to form, okay? And we've got to catch the wave and we got to ride the crap out of it. And there's a lot of stuff on the product side we have to deliver. There's a lot more that we have to do for integrating into our existing systems. We have to provide more direct, not direct connections, we've already got that piece, but more integration with the processes. We're not all the way there yet. So we have to push our product, our product management and engineering teams to do that. And that's not always easy at a big company like SAP that has all these different divisions building processes. And then the other hard part is, you got to make sure our sales reps are introducing us into every single customer account as a gearbox, as the agility platform. So that's starting to happen. So I wouldn't even say we're on the wave yet. We're starting to catch the wave. >> So let me build on that. I have two questions. I don't want to say they're quick. But here's the first one, here's what our CIO clients are telling us. One of the advantages of everything you said, platform, a lot of entry points, means that their business can pick their own road map for how they go to S/4HANA, as opposed to having single one-way, and that's the only way in, that'll extend the adoption cycle. Do you see that being a positive thing ultimately for not only SAP, in getting this message, and getting this product out, but also all the partners and the Ecosystem to drive this whole thing forward? >> Let me answer the customer part of that first. The way we have set up S/4 and HCP, is S/4 is the core that you really don't want to touch that much, you don't want to customize that much, you don't want to extend, you do that in HCP. Why would you want to do that? Well, as we deliver new enhancement packs, and we're delivering every couple of quarters, on the S/4 platform. Every time you do a customization inside the app, when you have to upgrade, you have to do regression tests, you got to check to customizations against the new rev. It becomes, in technical terms, a hairball. It becomes a huge hairball. Take that off the plate, just do it on HANA Cloud Platform. And so that's the customer angle to it, the partner angle to it is very simple, and it's a win-win for partners and for us. They can, and for customers as well, they can build a little app on the platform, snap it into S/4, Success Factor, and make it look like an app that's part of our SAS application, okay? The customer doesn't have to provision anything. The customer takes a tile and puts it on their Success Factor application. We win, because they're consuming it on HCP, so we're monetizing that too. So the partner has an easy path, the customer gets something easy, we help monetize on that. >> It's a great story and a lot of folks are looking forward, so for example, some of our clients are telling us, We are looking at the S/4platform, the S/4HANA platform, we came to it through analytics. So here's an interesting question Dan, you've got a lot of background in database. So the old way of thinking about building a database application is you didn't want to write an application required more than 80, 90, 100 disk I/Os. >> Yeah. Now we're talking about in-memory databases, calmative organization, provide any number of different straight-forward, common interfaces from a few standpoints back to the application. We're talkin' about what used to be or the equivalent of tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands of I/Os. What does that mean to the types of applications that we're going to be able to build in the Ecosystem over the course of the next few years. >> So you're right in that all data's immediately available in-memory ready to go. But here's the cool thing that I think you were getting at. You can build a structure one time, you build a table structure one time. On top of that, you just build views, logical views. And then your queries or your application looks at the logical view. Now logical views aren't somethin' new. It was just horrible to do it on a disk-based databse. >> Yep, very digital. >> You have to do tons of optimizations. In a memory database, it doesn't matter. It's all there. You just look at the logical view. So we're going to see people stacking up more and more and more logical views. Specifically in the analytics case, we see that all the time. From a partner standpoint, they're going to build their table structure, and then mix and match different application types using logical views. And you know, in HANA, we provide calc views and attribute views. So even better ways to do that. >> But the bottom line is the way you get to that ability to take a tile and drop it into a system and add that functionality, is because that underlying platform can support that view in an almost unlimited way. >> Exactly, whether the data is in HANA in the Cloud, or whether the data is still on premise through a direct connection back in the existing HANA system on premise. >> Of course unstructured data complicates the database equation, but also they have to coexist with the schemas and the structured databases out there. Has that thrown a curve ball at you guys at all? Or not a problem at all with HANA? >> So you know we've got an answer for that with Vora. I don't know if you've talked to any of the Vora folks, but you know what Vora brings to the party is it brings in-memory capabilities. It's an in-memory indexer for dup data. So instead of pointing your sequel query or building a MapReduce or using Hive or one of those technologies-- >> Or data lakes-- >> Or whatever, you just point it at Vora, and it's already indexed in memory. So our plan and our hope is that soon Vora will be on the HANA Cloud Platform. So that's just another piece of technology-- >> Peter: Way of generating a view. >> It's another service that we provide for generating a view on top of the dup data. >> Yeah, that's key. So talk about the Ecosystem innovation. Because one of the things I loved in McDermott's opening keynote, and I love the term, business model innovation. 'Cause that just really speaks to a whole new level of innovation. Usually it's tech innovation. >> Yeah. >> You get destructive enablers, platforms. At the end of the day, the application of the tools and platforms, however they're developed, by whomever, impact something. That's the business. That's the revenue. These new processes that are emerging. IoT is a great example. It's kind of an unknown process. It's hard to automate that workflow because it's evolving in real time. What innovations can you point to that you see, and that SAP sees as key mile markers, if you will, that shows that these things are being innovated on the business model side with the Ecosystem? >> Yeah, I'll give you two examples, one that's kind of just a speed up. And then I'll give you one that's a business model. So Hamburg Port Authority is the Port Authority for Hamburg, the second largest port in Europe. For them to keep up with the competition, they're going to have to double and triple in the next 15 years, the amount of goods going through their port. They have nowhere to build out. They cannot make their port bigger. It's surrounded by a city. There's nowhere for them to go. So they're using HANA Cloud Platform to basically create a grid. They're creating a utility or a cell network grid of all the containers that are sensorized, all of the trucks that have telematics information in the trucks. And they're also bringing in traffic information so that when the container comes in, they can bring the exact truck in that needs to get it in the right path into the port. If you think about that, that's a cellular network. And that's what they built using HANA Cloud Platform. So it's a semi-change in business model for the technology-- >> So minutes matter to them. >> Seconds matter to them, literally. The faster they can match up the container with the truck that's going to move that container, the better off they are. >> They got to clear the inventory. Sounds like a business problem. >> Exactly, exactly right? And think about it, they're probably going to sensorize the ships as well. They're going to stage those guys coming in over time. >> John: What's the other example? >> The other example is really interesting. This small company in Germany that builds forklifts, There can be nothing more pedantic than a forklift. It picks up a pallet, it moves the pallet, it puts it down. So here's what this company's done. It's called Still Forklifts. They are using HANA Cloud Platform to match up their order system, which is an SAP with the forklifts that are sensorized on HANA Cloud Platform so that the order system will send the order to get picked by the forklift. And the forklift and the order system have the maps of where everything is in the warehouse. >> The client's order system. >> The client's order system. And they've also now, they haven't done it yet, but they're working on a forklift to forklift integration so that if this guy's over in this part of the warehouse he has to pick something up over here. This forklift is over here. They meet in the middle. Trade some product, get it out to the docking station. >> So the forklift is an IoT device to the order system. And it opens up the possibility of greater automation within the warehouse floor. >> And they've changed their business model. They're no longer selling forklifts. They're selling pounds of goods moved within the warehouse. From in the warehouse to shipped. And they're billing on a monthly basis based on pounds of goods shipped. They're not selling forklifts anymore. That is pretty cool. >> So that's a complete shift. >> That's a business model shift. >> It's an outcome shift. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> They're selling the outcome. >> Exactly, exactly. And they had to think differently about their business. They had to think, we are not a forklift operator. We're a goods mover operator. >> Or to your business model, we were a forklift operator. Now we're a goods mover, an in-warehouse goods mover. >> Exactly, exactly. >> That's a great example and also a huge innovation. Because now, as the keynotes were saying, people are afraid to go out of business. And so the opportunity for the Ecosystem is, put one of those guys at check. They'll get the check. If they don't move, you take their territory. >> Exactly. >> So it's a nice cycle, SAP wins on both sides. >> On both sides, yeah, very cool. >> All right Dan, I got to ask you the question. Plans for this year, you got the Apple. You got the Cloud Platform. You have all this goodness goin' on. What's the plans for the year. Give us a taste of some of the things that you want to achieve this year, out in the market. And what KPIs are you looking at-- >> Yeah, what are we going to be talking about this time next year? >> I think we're going to be talking about what did you guys do in the area of Cloud Foundry. Have you guys really delivered on your Cloud Foundry promise of going opensource and moving toward portability? So next year, if we're fortunate enough to speak again, That's what I want you to ask me. Where are you guys on delivering Cloud Foundry? Pushing opensource, open development for developers even further as we talked at the outset of the interview. And then secondly, where are we on the API business hub? What is SAP doing to expose the thousands of business services that we have to our customers? To be able to use the HANA Cloud Platform with a catalog of business services that we're exposing to help them extend or modify or build that new application. >> And new onboarding numbers, having numbers showing both. >> That's right. Now what that means from a revenue standpoint, it means, you know we got to double or triple our business next year. We're not talkin' a 10%, 15% growth. We're talking an order of magnitude growth for our part of the business. >> And so you'll be investing more in marketing, training, tools. >> All of the above, all of the above. >> Hey, companies want to get into the enterprise, and the existing enterprise suppliers want to stay in the enterprise. >> Exactly, exactly. >> John: So it's a good time to be an arms dealer. >> Exactly, and we'll supply it with the HANA Cloud Platform. >> John: Dan, thanks so much for sharing your insight here on theCube. Really appreciate it, and great to meet your team. >> As well. >> And everyone here has been fantastic. We are live, here in Orlando. The theme is live, here at SAP this year. And of course we got the live coverage from theCube. This is theCube, I'm John Furrier, with Peter Burris. We'll be right back. You're watchin' theCube. (soft electronic music)

>> Voiceover: Live from Orlando Florida it's TheCUBE covering SAPPHIRE NOW. Headlines sponsored by SAP-100 cloud the leader in platform as a service with support from Consulate the cloud internet company. Now here are your hosts John Furrier and Peter Mars. >> Peter: Okay, welcome back everyone. We are here live in Orlando Florida for SAP SAPPHIRE NOW SiliconANGLE Medias flexure program TheCUBE where we go out to events and extract the signal for the noise. I'm John Furrier the host and my co-host Peter Burris head of research in SiliconANGLE Media general manager of Wikibon Research. Want to give a shout-out to our sponsors without them we would not be here SAP100 Cloud platform, Consul Inc, Capgemini, EMC thanks for your support and we got 4 over 40 videos go to siliconANGLE at youtube.com/siliconangle for all the videos. Our next guest is Bronwyn Hastings who is the senior vice-president of Global Strategic Service Partners global channels all the top in integrations. Welcome to TheCUBE. >> Bronwyn: Thank you, thanks for having me here today. >> So it's great to have the boss come on we've had a lot of the folks from your group come in certainly a lot of your partners. We've had Capgemini, we've had Accenture, we've had a bunch of folks come through EY, I think Deloitte and anyway Infosys came on too Deloitte was really the only one and PwC were the only ones I didn't see here. Now we'll get to them later but the message is clear. They have to focus on innovation. >> Bronwyn: Yes. >> Otherwise they are going to get put out of business 'cause right behind them warming up in the sidelines in the ecosystem is their replacement potentially. This is an interesting dynamic you got going on here you growing your future in the ecosystem putting the system integrators I wouldn't say on notice but like hey get busy. Great system model being and they are responding what's your thoughts on some of the feedback you've heard? >> Thank you. This is a really interesting question because I think there are two things happening one is that customers are asking for the innovation and asking us and the partners what's the way forward? They are hearing all this talk about digital they want to know how did this become more relevant to their customers in a quick and more dynamic way. And they are asking both of us that question. The first thing that we do with our partners in this instance is we look at where are the innovation areas one that make them different? How do they get chosen to actually add value to their customers? And these partnerships that you've mentioned actually do it in different ways some of them represent themselves or talk to the customer through business transformations so they talk about what are you trying to achieve? Where is your future? You know the normal business conversation to find out how that innovation can happen and what do they need to be relevant to the customer? The other partners have a look at it and say how do I be part of this world that's changing but then bring quick value to the customer? How do I accelerate that value in quicker chance? And therefore the customer gets what they need in quicker time frames and then others say I'm going to look at this innovation and what's going to really set me apart as a specialist and that's where I'm going to go. So these partners right now are looking at where is their place in this and how do they transform themselves to actually bring value to the customer. And luckily for us we have a lot of those innovation areas that they can make those choices so they can choose >> John: They pick their swim lanes? >> Bronwyn: Swim lanes, focus areas. >> Differentiation. >> Differentiation all of that to be part of the new conversation as well. >> Peter: But what are the duties of the platform strategy that you guys are putting forward? And the ease with which using things like the Apple partnership that you have of creating new great software is you've a lot of this partners buy competition and buying these different alternatives are going to be forced to really focus on the value and their distinction that they need to provide to customers. It's going to be very interesting over the next few years to see these companies that have historically for you know long-term lock-in like relationships have to themselves become real nimble and become really catalyst to thought leaders for renovation of the marketplace because so much of the enabling technology is going to make it more or easier and more likely of bringing success. Do you agree with that? >> I find your comments very interesting actually so where I agree totally is that but I'd a piece. We look at it as though people have competition here actually a number of these companies already have practices or developments or innovations using some of the technology components. We announced Apple, there is a Microsoft announcement all of these areas that you would not normally see all of a sudden we've made these announcements and now that we're with these partners same partners that we've worked with for a long time come to us and say well actually we've got an area that develops an iOS for Apple already because our customers needed us to do that. Then we come to another area and they say but you brought out a new user experience through Fiori so we've got those development tools. And now if you bring out something like your 100 Cloud platform which allows us to build extensibility and these three things together start to actually build even stronger innovation so it's actually had a magnifying effect >> John: Exactly. >> Even for us you know we. >> John: Because you've already had those practices that were not being tapped into so to speak. >> Bronwyn: Not tapped into not brought in and integrated in the same way. But now because we're doing co-development we are doing co-innovation or integration processes actually it strengthens their capability to use the innovation and make it something even more. For me you can hear my passion in this one >> John: I guess. >> For me the excitement in this is that people really now see ways of innovating further and customers see that as valuable because they're getting what they want out of these innovations as well. >> John: Well that you mentioned the co-innovation I want to talk about that. That seems to be an SAP playbook even going back to the seven years that you started covering SAPPHIRE there has always been geeky developer focus which is a good thing we like that. But now simplicity is the theme once you have results but co-development's been a big part of it we were talking with EY for instance and they have a co-development on a lab being put down in I think Atlanta area. They have Accenture's got a zillion data scientists so you start to see this they are romping up they are not just about delivery any more. >> Bronwyn: No. No. >> The old way was delivery back in the contract. >> Yeah. >> Where is the value in your mind for these partners? Is it the co-innovation? Is it the data science? All the above? Is there one thing that pops out at you that you see rising to the top in the terms of trending? >> I would say there are two or three things well to one is we've got a large install base and all of the move that we've got to the newer generations are the S4100 environments. These partners actually have strengths of their own which they have been known for. E&Y has their strength that they're known for in the market with or without us they have got a strength. What these things are allowing them to do is to take some of that shift into the newer technologies and their strength and then build extensible innovation. And what I mean by that is they can say okay I'm strong in finance so I'm going to choose a finance topic on the 100 club platform environment and I'm going to build my differentiation on that. >> John: Their domain expertise map right into it >> Their demand expertise right into it squarely into it really create a compelling thing for them creates the value for the customer and it really establishes this innovation so that would be one point. You come back to the data scientists then you take it a step further you've got your differentiation. Now where else can you excel in? Where else can you bring the things that would make fun ends completely different? Like the digital boardroom that you're seeing that is being created while it's through predictable analytics it's through data scientists type of things so they add in these other services now that still play to some of their core strengths. I'm finding that it's actually creating the next platform for their own differentiation and value and it can incorporate these insights into it. >> John: Yes as you're saying it brings the swim lanes concept the differentiation so I got to thaw up on that and because Peter brought the question earlier today about when you brought up the question around partners working together. >> Peter: Yeah. >> So this comes back down to a lot of (mumbles) >> Peter: By the way for anybody who is wondering thunder and rain opportunity is raining everywhere. >> John: The cloud is raining opportunities the thunder the clouds are moving over us it's an (mumbles) >> Peter: The cloud is here >> (mumbles) Okay so back to this point. I differentiate it here once it has been the greatest has been the greater but also on these bigger projects you might have to work with the other guy. >> Bronwyn: That's correct. >> So how is that playing out 'cause they have to share obviously data might be shared but how is that playing out for them where do you see that trend going obviously probably more of that not less of it. >> Bronwyn: Yeah so what I'm finding is people are also choosing the type of work they want to do and then leveraging the ecosystem for the other types of work they want to do so people rather say you know I choose to do transformational type of things but if I am taking the lead on something I'm going to be able to partner with other partners in this ecosystem that complement me. I actually think it is complementing or if there is a specialist area they can bring someone else in so I actually think the complementary nature of things are getting stronger in some areas. Of course they still stand alone business that they do as well. Second thing I'd say is and I'll add this in because it's not only about the partnerships it's about how do we work with the partnerships and you would have heard some of our announcements around SAP S4 value assurance programs. And what that means is the customers are saying we want skin in the game from SAP too the partners are saying actually this is valuable to us too that you've got your stamp of approval on what's going on so we've created these service offerings that are module arised that partners can include and it's anything from just check my scope is right or the journey that we're going on and our transformation the mapping is correct through to more custom services and then it also including that in their offering as complementary so that customers feel comfortable with where they're going as well so that's all coming together as well. >> Peter: I want to clear out something around here because we are research's very strong sponsors we talk about the three Cs of digital transformation. Context. What are you going to do? >> Bronwyn: Yep. >> Community, who are you going to do it with? >> Bronwyn: With. Yep. >> Capabilities. How are you going to get the capabilities so that you do what you are going to do with who you are going to do it with better than everybody else every time? Does that resonate? >> Bronwyn: Absolutely! Absolutely! For me it's a content context all of those sorts of things. The customers are asking and you would have heard it around here. I want to be here how do I get there what's the time frame and who's capable of doing it actually? The partner community is really well enabled but they also know that this is a journey of new technology areas, shifts in the market. >> Peter: New processes. >> New processes so trying to simplify digital processes to really get the true value of digital so they want people to say we are in. And these are the ways that these things happen and you can solidify it together as well. >> John: And the keywords are that they are enabled. >> Enabled. >> That's there because the platform has to be enabling. >> Enabling. >> Otherwise it doesn't work. And then the tools and the tooling has to kind of got to be there. Is there a process out there and this is what we talked about Peter brought this up yesterday it was a really great observation. In old days look backwards known processes unknown technologies and then they evolve and you automate those processes you have known and now you have unknown processes developing with known technology. >> Yes. >> What are some of those new unknowns is IoT a good example? Or if you ask what other process is there? >> Peter: (mumbles) just unlimited things that we could be doing. >> Things that are like not fully like known that's going to happen but like you can't say that (mumbles) is a clear process for every customer it might be different. >> Bronwyn: I actually think the way that I would answer that and sort of look at that topic is as the transformation to digital is happening I'm almost seeing that all the customers are testing the processes. It's not like everything's a stable process any more they are saying what processes 'cause if you just replicate what was there before you're not getting any gain. You could have the most beautiful fore intent and all these processes remain the same and nothing's actually changed except the user experience. Or you can change all the processes but the user experience doesn't change so these two things are coming together and the process has to be re-looked at. >> Peter: But the customer is becoming part of that process story. >> Process. Absolutely. >> And that's the thing that's most unknown. >> Absolutely. >> And so how customers go about catalyzing those processes through those beautiful user experiences is really what we want to do when we think about engaging customers in a security way. >> Correct. And that's the way really the services piece comes back into play. It's really testing what do you still need or can we make this a much more streamlined simpler process that gives you all the benefits the cost benefits, the user experience which one of those do we want to do? I can say this is where the services that the partners really bring knowledge experience as well into the same equation. >> John: Bronwyn Hastings SVP at Global Services and the third part is final point I'll give you the final word on our wrap up here day three of SAPPHIRE. Take a minute to explain to the folks out there what's going on for SAP with respect to all these system integrators what's your plans, what's the focus, what's the dynamics. >> I think the three areas that we focus on within is digital transformation and the ability for us to bring digital to the customer. Why I take that approach first is this is a transformation time that the market's changing and the customers need that guidance into that process so one is digital transformation. And depending on all of that is that we are asking for the innovation that we've spoken a lot about here is innovating to the future not creating what's gone by not replicating but innovating the new digital world with us and part of that is simplification for the customers. Our work with the system integrators right now is focus on the customer, bring value and it's innovate together that's what we do. >> John: Well, thanks so much for your time and welcome to being a CUBE alumni. >> Thank you. >> Here on SiliconANGLE Media as a CUBE. We are live in Atlanta for day three three days of wall to wall coverage. Thanks for watching that you are watching theCUBE.