>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage, it's theCUBE, covering VMworld 2019. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Well, welcome back everyone. Live CUBE coverage here in San Francisco, California for VMworld 2019. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, Dave 10 years continues, day one of three days of wall to wall coverage. Mark Lohmeyer, Senior Vice President, Cloud Platform Business Unit and general manager at the VMware, manage cloud for VMware. Great to see you again. >> Great to see you, yeah, thank you. >> So you got, you're managing all the VMware manage cloud on AWS and Dell EMC? >> Right. >> Which was a big part of today's keynote. Obviously a big part of your investments, so you know, you always look at someone's commitment to something. How they spend their resources and their time. So give us an update obviously a lot of resources on the VMware side. >> Mark: Right. >> To make this run, what customers want. Give us an update on what's going on. >> Yeah, yeah I mean so first of all VMware Cloud and AWS, I mean, we're really pleased with the momentum we're seeing for that in the marketplace. So, we compared what it looks like today versus a year ago. And we were talking about it, a year ago and we've increased the number of customers by 4x on the service. We've increased the numbers of VM's on the service by 9x. That's kind of interesting 'cause it shows you that you know, we're adding both new customers as well as existing customers are expanding their investment. So, that's great to see, right? And it's powered by a lot of the compelling Use Cases. You may have heard Pat or others talk about most notably, cloud migrations. You know from an investment perspective which is I think where you sort of started the question you know, significant investment from both VMware as well as AWS the end of the service. You know we say it's jointly engineered and that is absolutely the case. I mean we literally have hundreds of engineers that are optimizing the VMware software to be delivered as a service on top of the AWS infrastructure. >> And that's a lot just to get nuance on this point. Because in the press coverage, I've seen all the press coverage from the Microsoft and the Google. This is different than just Cloud Foundation because you're talking about something completely different. This is jointly engineered. These are specific, unique things. >> Yeah, I mean with the sort of distinction I would sort of articulate there is that in the case of VMware Cloud on AWS, it's a VMware managed, operated, supported, delivered service. Right, so it's our engineers that are pushing the bits into production in AWS. It's our engineers if there's an incident that deal with the you know, with the situation. You know, it's literally a service operated by us. In the case of what we're doing with Azure and GCP, you know first of all from a customer perspective what we heard them telling us is, I think many customers are using Azure, many customers are using GCP and they'd like to have the ability to have that same VMware consistent software stack on those clouds. But the operational model is different. So in those two cases there's a partner called CloudSimple. Who's a VCPP partner and they're taking our standard VMware Cloud Foundation software that customers use on Prem and they are operating and delivering that as a Cloud service on top of those Cloud platforms. >> Just to review so VMware Cloud on AWS and Outposts both your responsibility, there's two way street there? >> Yup. (laughing) >> Which is rare with Amazon usually it's a one way street. My words not yours. But so, and, so you manage both sides of that? Is that correct? >> Mark: Yeah, that's right, that's right. >> So you're happy to sell either one? >> Absolutely, yup. >> Right, and then the Dell EMC version is kind of the on Prem version of Outposts, if you will. Is that a fair characterization? >> Mark: Yeah, yeah, so. >> Without the public cloud. >> Yeah, I mean absolutely, I think one of the interesting things was you know, we've been in market now with the VMware Cloud on AWS for a couple years. And, you know it's going great but one of the things we've heard from customers was, "Hey, we sort of really like this VMware managed cloud model where you're taking all of the heavy lifting of worrying about the Lifecycle of the VMware software. Worrying about the you know upgrades to the hardware, you're taking that all off of our plate. But why can't we have that same cloud delivery model back on Prem?", right and so, that was the impetus for what we originally announced as Project Dimension and now we're launching this week as VMware Cloud on Dell EMC. >> So all the benefits go with the Dell infrastructure hardware? >> So, I got to ask you, so one are the attributes of those those solutions, is they're highly homogenous, right? And, Andy Jassy made a big deal about that same Control Plane, same Data Plane. >> Mark: Right. >> So my question is, help me square the circle with MultiCloud which is highly heterogeneous? (laughing) So, can I have my cake and eat it, too? Can I have this, you know unified vision of the world? This controlled, same compliance, government security, EDIx, management etc, and have all this heterogeneity? How does that? >> Yeah, so I think, I mean to me it starts from what the customer would like to do, right? And what we're seeing from customers is it's increasingly a MultiCloud world, right. That expands spans private cloud, public cloud and Ed. >> Dave: You're smiling when you say that. >> Mark: Yeah, now, now-- >> The chaos is an opportunity for VM. (laughing) >> Yeah, but it's a challenge for customers, right? And so, if you look at how VMware is trying to help there if you say sort of square the circle. I think that first piece is this idea of consistent operations, right. Then we have these management tools that you can use to consistently operate those environments, whether they're based on a VMware based infrastructure or whether they're based on a native cloud infrastructure. Right, so if you look at our cloud health platform for example, it's a great example where that service can help you under, get visibility to your cloud spend across different cloud platforms. Also B service platforms. It can help you reduce that spend over time. So that's sort of what we refer to as consistent operations. Right, which can span any cloud. You know what my team is responsible for is more in the consistent infrastructures base and that's really all about how do we deliver consistent compute network and storage service that spans on Prem, multiple public clouds and Edge. So that's really where we're bringing that same VMware Cloud Foundation stack to all those different environments. >> Mark, I want to get your thoughts on what Pat Gelsinger said on the keynote. He said, "modernize and migrate or migrate and modernize" he also mentioned live migrate as a big feature. >> Mark: Yes, yes. >> On the modernize and migrate and migrate then modernize, they basically pick one and people are doing both. >> Mark: Right, right, right. >> What's he mean by that give us some examples and then what's the impact to the customer? Is it just the behavior of the customer? >> Yeah, I mean, it varies a little bit based on what the customer's trying to accomplish. But you know the one thing I'll say is that, you know, historically it was a little bit tough to have that choice. Right, so you know the sort of the thought was, hey I have to like re-factor and re-platform everything upfront just to be able to get it to the public cloud. And then once it's there I can sort of start to modernize. I think in that can be a multi-year process, right? >> Yeah. >> I think one of the really interesting opportunities that we've opened up for customers with VMware Cloud on AWS is you don't necessarily have to re-factor everything just to be able to get to the public cloud. We could help them migrate to the public cloud very quickly without requiring any changes if they don't want to. And then when they're there, they can modernize at their own pace based on the needs of the business. All right, and so I think having that additional option is actually quite useful for customers that want to get to the cloud quickly and then from there begin to modernize. >> So two main paths with migration and modernize as the easiest one given the managed service. >> Yeah, yeah, and but you know that being said, I think also you see a set of customers that say "Look, sort of digital transformation and modernization is my primary goal." Right, and for them by enabling some of these things like Native Kupernetes as a service in vSphere and in VMware Cloud and AWS by enabling this AI and ML workloads with a Nivida partnership for that classic customers, they can also just start with the modernization piece, right? Directly on the-- >> So the migrate to modernize would be a lift in shift essentially and then modernize? >> Mark: Ah-hm. >> And that's what Amazon wants you to do? But, you're giving customers a choice, is what I'm-- >> Mark: We have, yeah no, I mean look at the end of the day I think both VMware and AWS believe strongly in understanding what customers are looking for and making sure we're delivering that value to them. And I think you know, this is one of the compelling new options that we've enabled for customers, I think with VMworld Cloud on AWS is that we could take a migration project that would have previously taken three years and we could do it in a few months. >> You know Mark I had a chance to talk to Carl Eschenbach two weeks ago before the show. He came in for an interview Sequoia Capital, Carl Eschenbach, former COO of VMware been there for years. He was part of the deal with AWS, graphing that deal. We were talking about the moment and time where your stock price started to move up this October 2016. That's right when the deal was announced. Since then the stock price has been up. For a lot of reasons, we've talked on theCUBE before. The question I have for you is, what have you learned? What surprises you from this relationship? Because one the clarity was easy, meet Cloud Air, no more. This is our cloud strategy. All on AWS and MultiCloud as it develops you certainly have had to clarify with customers. But now that you entered the managed service, what new things have popped up that might not have been on your radar? What did you expect? What are some surprises from this relationship from a customer behavior standpoint? >> Yeah, that's a real interesting question. So, I think you know in the early days we sort of had this concept of "Hey, let's enable the full VMware capabilities on AWS." And we were sort of talking about it as a tech, almost like a technical solution, right? And what, what we could enable. I think sort of what quickly became apparent is hey, sort of behind that technical approach there's actually some really compelling Use Cases here. And I think that, if I think back to two years ago, I don't think we fully anticipated how compelling this cloud migration Use Case would be. I mean I don't think we really realized internally within VMware how hard it was for customers before to do that. And, I think customers didn't realize sort of how much easier and faster and lower cost that we could make it for them with this type of service. So I think that one, although we were maybe talking about it a little bit in the early days. I think it surprised me at least at how sort of broad based the customer interest was in that type of capability. >> Any other broader market interest on things that were surprises or not surprises that are compelling? >> I mean, you know the other thing I wouldn't say it's a surprise per se, but I mean, I think the partnership with AWS has been fantastic. Right, I mean we sort of went into it, I think in the right way between Pat and Andy and focused on doing something meaningful together. The relationship has only gotten sort of deeper and deeper over time. And, one of the interesting things about it is that relationship spans not just engineering and product management and product strategy which is sort of my neck of the woods. But also the marketing organizations, the sales organizations, the support organizations. So it's, it's become I think a very deep partnership. We're able to speak to each other very openly and trying to solve together the, you know the problems that customers are putting in front of us. >> And what's with Outposts, what's the new update on Outposts? >> Yeah, yeah so you know no news on Outposts today obviously but we're working very closely with AWS to enable the VMware Cloud on AWS Outposts model second half of this year. And, the customer interest has just been fantastic, right. And in many ways it's basically the exact same value prop of VMC on AWS in terms-- >> In reverse. >> But, but in reverse and anywhere you want, right, at your door step, right, any Edge, any data center, so. >> I got to ask you, back to the AWS relationship. We were big fans of it always have been. Learned from both sides and believe in it. Having said that, EC2 is the bread and butter for Amazon despite it's hundreds and hundreds of services. That's where their revenue comes from, and compute, your compute business is you know, significant. So my question is, is it a zero some game long-term or when you look at the tam do you see all these other services that you can sell longer term providing you know, the growth engine for your respective companies? Or, does this whole you know, rising tide lift both boats, what are your thoughts on that? >> Yeah, I mean it's clearly rising tide lifts both boats. I mean, again I'll, I always bring it back to the customer right, 'cause that's the way I like to view the world and AWS-- >> And you've got some evidence now that's why I'm asking. >> Yeah and I mean what you're seeing is actually I mean if you take some of these customer examples. Let me give you one from the UK. So, Stagecoach. I don't know if you heard about these guys. But they're a major, so they provide transportation services in the UK, and other countries as well. So, they run a network of buses, trains and they're responsible for the transportation of three million commuters every day in the UK. So, they have this really mission critical application that they're building that is basically responsible for scheduling those buses and those trains and scheduling the conductors and the operators. So you can imagine this application is super mission critical for their business, right. And, they chose to run that application on VMware Cloud on AWS and one of the reasons they chose that is because we have a unique capability called stretch clustering. >> Sure. >> Which says "Hey, even if there's an issue in one AZ we can restart that application in a second AZ. So there's a really good reason for the customer to choose it. But now back to your question, right? If you think about the opportunity in that for both VM or in AWS, it's meaningful, right? You know, for us, we're selling the entire VMware Cloud on AWS service to that customer across those two AZ's for mission critical workload that's core to their business. For AWS, they're able to of course not only supply the infrastructure that we run on top of but also as that customer looks to do more interesting things they can attach an additional native AWS services, right? So, you know I think that's a great example where delivering value to the customer and if you focus on that the right things will kind of flow back to the companies that help make that possible. >> Good partnering helps you reduce friction and get to market faster. Thinking about the intense effort that both you know, Pat's described, Andy Jassy described, you've described in terms of that partnership, that deep engineering. Can you do multiples of those or is it that you don't because of the respect for the partnership or is it too intense and it's too resource intensive? How many of these types of partnerships can you actually have? >> Well I mean and I think Pat has said it pretty clearly, right? I mean AWS is our primary preferred partner, right. And, what we're doing with them is very unique, right? And it's something that we want to make sure that we have the right level of investment in and that we do an amazingly good job of, right. And I think they feel the same way. And so having that focus together between the two companies. I think is what, has allowed us to be you know, achieve some of the level of success we've had to date and we expect to do that going forward. >> Mark, final question for you. What's your objective this year in your business unit? What's your focus? What are some of the things that you're working on that people should know about? >> Yeah, so first of all. I had VMware Cloud VD but that's just to wrap that up I think the big thing we're focused on going forward is really this modernization kind of piece of the story. How do we enable Native Kupernetes in the service? How do we enable ML and AI workloads in this service? How do we do a better job of connecting to all of the AWS services? So, you're going to see a big kind of focus, there. Beyond VMware Cloud AWS, I mean we're really excited about bringing this VMC model back on Prem both with Dell and on top of AWS Outposts. I mean the customer interest has been, you know fantastic, right? And, you think about all the reasons that customers want to be able to run their applications, you know on Prem, data locality, latency, compliance, all sorts of really good reasons. We think that those services have really hit a sweet spot of that market. >> IT as a managed service, what an interesting idea, don't you think? (laughing) >> Mark: Yeah. >> Whole nother level same game, whole new ball game, right? >> Absolutely! >> Mark, thanks for sharing your insight. Congratulations on your success and we'll be following it. VMware Manage Solutions AWS certainly a big hit. Changed the game for the company and now they're bringing Dell EMC among other potential business model opportunities for customers. As Cloud 2.0 comes as theCUBE's coverage. Live at VMworld 2019, be right back with more from San Francisco after this short break. (bright music)

>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Google Cloud Next 19. Brought to you by Google Cloud and it's ecosystem partners. >> Hello and welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage, here in San Francisco, the Moscone Center. This is theCUBE's live coverage of Google Next 19, Google Cloud computing conference. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante my cohost. Stu Miniman's here as well, he'll be coming on doing interviews. Our next guests are the founder and CEO of SignalFx, Karthik Rau, and Leonid Ingolnik, EVP of engineering. SignalFx has been a great company, we've been following for many, many years. Pioneer in a lot of the monitoring and serviceability of applications, now prime time, the world has spun to their doorstep. Karthik, congratulations on your success. It's prime time for your business. >> Ya, thank you, John. >> John: Welcome back. >> Great to be on, we're on again. >> I'm glad that you're on because we talked six years ago about some of the trends, we saw early. We saw the containers, Docker movement, and also Kubernetes got massive growth. You had the visibility of what these services are going to look like, cloud web services, kind of the next level. It's kind of here right now. >> Yeah, absolutely, there are two things that we predicted would happen. One was that architectures would get a lot more distributed, elastic, and it would require a more low-latency monitoring system that could do realtime analytics. That was one of the key changes. And then the other thing that we predicted was that developers would get more involved in operations. Which is the whole DevOps movement. And now both of those are very much in the mainstream, so we're really excited to see these trends. >> And looking at the Google keynotes today, obviously we're starting to see the realization of true infrastructure as code, you're starting to see the beginning signals of, look at, we can actually program the infrastructure, and not even have to deal with it. This is key, and you guys have some hardcore news, so let's get that out of the way. You guys got some updates, let's get into the news, and then we can get into the conversation around what you guys are doing in the industry. >> So, today we're bringing three things to the conference, to boost customers and prospects, starting with announcing our support for cloud functions. Cloud functions are great technology that we're seeing adopted by retail. For spiky workloads, things where you have a flash sale and you need to understand what's happening, it may be lasting minutes, where our platform really shows off the best, which is the one second resolution data. Some of our flash sales we see from existing customers don't last a minute, right, so looking at this in a minute resolution of being able to react to this in a machine time rather than human time, is something that our customers now expect. The second thing we are focusing on is Istio, and Istio on GKE specifically. We're seeing service mesh adoption continuing to go both in new, modern application, as well as taking legacy workloads and unlocking the potential of taking those legacy workloads to the cloud. And with Istio, and specifically on Microservices APM, it's not just applicable to Microservices, we see a lot of our customers realizing a lot of value from tracing abilities that a service mesh like Istio provides, an ability to understand you topology and service interactions for free, out of the box, whether it's on-premise with Istio or on the Google environment. And then lastly, so we see customers and prospects adopt Kubernetes, we're also starting to see the next layer above Kubernetes coming in. And, with Knative, getting the support out of the box, whether it's the dashboard, the tracing of the metrics, and that, that's the third announcement we have today. We're fully integrated with Google's offerings, and we're able to monitor and provide you with some actionable content, just in a flick of a switch. >> So support of Knative out of the box. >> Leonid: Out of the box. >> Full SignalFx, with Knative on Google Cloud. >> That is correct. So those three things. >> Karthik, I wonder if you could give us some insight as to what's going on in the marketplace. A multicloud is obviously a tailwind to you, but multicloud, to date, hasn't really been a strategy, it's sort of been an outcome of multi vendor. So, is multicloud increasingly becoming a strategy for your customers, and what specific role are you playing there to facilitate that? >> Yeah, absolutely. I think particularly most of the larger enterprise accounts tend to have a multi vendor strategy, for almost every category, right? Including cloud, which typically is one of their largest spends. Typically what we see is people looking at certain classes or workloads, running on particular clouds, so it may be transactional systems running on AWS. A lot of their more traditional enterprise workloads that were running on Windows servers, potentially running on Azure, we see a lot of interest in data intensive sorts of analytics workloads, potentially running on GCP. And so I think larger companies tend to kind of look at it in terms of, what's the best platform for the use case that they have in mind. But in general, they are looking at multiple cloud vendors. >> So we heard some customers onstage today, talking about their strategy, I think Thomas asked one retail customer, how'd you decide what to put where? And essentially he said, well, it's either going to go into the cloud, lift and shift, we're going to refactor it, reprogram it essentially, or we're going to sunset it. What he didn't say is, we're going to leave some stuff on-prem. Which somewhat surprised me, 'cause of course, especially into financial services you're going to get a lot of stuff left on-prem. So what's your play, with regard to those various strategies, and for the legacy stuff, I know you're cloud native, that's your claim to fame, but can you help those legacy customers as well? Talk about that. >> Yes, absolutely. >> So I think, what we've seen is it's a given now, that organizations are going to move to cloud. It's a question of when, not if. And the cloud form factors are just, are fundamentally different, they're software-defined. Right, a traditional data center, you're monitoring network equipment, storage devices, you're monitoring disks and fan failures on individual servers. When you're running in a cloud, it's a software-defined infrastructure, and it's far more elastic. And so even if you're just lifting and shifting, how you think about monitoring and observing this new cloud infrastructure's fundamentally different. So we're there for the very first step of the journey for an organization, to get the visibility they need into the new architecture, and many times we're also helping them understand the before and after, so how do I compare my performance in my on-premise data center to what it looks like in the cloud? That's step one. Step two is, they start chipping away at those monoliths, or they have new initiatives, that are digital initiatives, that are running in Kubernetes, or container based architectures, microservices based architectures, and that is a fundamentally different world. How you observe and monitor, deploy, not just monitor, the entire supply chain of how you manage these systems is different. So there, they have to look at different solutions, and we're obviously one of the key players, helping them there. >> Leonid, we've been doing theCUBE now for a decade, and I think John, it was a decade ago we said, we made the statement that sampling is dead. So I love your approach, you're not just taking small samples to do your performance monitoring. What's the architecture that enables you to do that, could you talk about that a little bit? >> So I think the most interesting thing with more modern architectures, especially with microservices adoption, is the complexity of how the transaction flows through the system. And then, basically tossing the coin, like we used to be able to do, in previous generations, to capture some traces and get the data you need. Doesn't work anymore, because it's very tough to predict at the beginning of the trace where the transaction's going to go. We're taking a completely different approach on the market. We look at every single transaction, at scales, we have prospects that are talking at us about volumes of giga span in minutes, so one billion spans observed a minute, and with some of the interesting tech we've built, we are able to pick the interesting things. And the interesting things have a couple categories, transactions that occur infrequently, transactions that are maybe above P90, right, the slow ones, because when look about performance and the understanding of how the application performs, you really want to know what's slow, not what's normal. But you also have to capture enough of what's normal. So with some of our tech, we're still able to keep about 1% of transactions, but the right ones, and that's the biggest differentiator with what we put together for the APM product. >> One of the things I want to talk about with you guys is how you relate to some of Google's announcements. The key things, I'm oversimplifying now, but they got a server list kind of announcement, got Cloud Run environment things, the regions, which is global, and then obviously open source commitment. You mentioned functions, you mentioned Knative, obviously open source. You're seeing open source being much more of a production IT capability, so you guys obviously hit that with these solutions, so the question I have for you guys is, how hard is it for you guys to provide that real time monitoring, because Google needs to build an ecosystem, that's what they're not talking about, they didn't really talk about on stage, their ecosystem. So you guys are a natural fit into service mesh, which they showed onstage, Jennifer Lin showed a great demo. So Google has to build an ecosystem, you guys are clearly positioned, through your announcements, that you're deeply integrated with Google. Cisco announced and integration, obviously they have an integration, so integration seems to be the secret sauce, (laughs) with cloud, to play in this ecosystem. Could you guys elaborate on that dynamic, because it kind of changes the old formula for ecosystems? >> Yeah, it's very different, right? In the old days, you had proprietary systems, so the only way you could actually build an integration is, you had to get your product managers in a conference room with the vendor and get visibility in the roadmap, access to everything, and that's why there were, it just took a lot longer to get things done. I think what you're seeing with Google is, they've taken a very standards based approach to everything, right? So, whatever technologies that they're releasing, they're trying to build it as a standard, you can run it on any cloud. Instrumentation is a core part of their philosophy of any technologies that they're releasing, such that, you have a new platform, it has a metrics library, other standards based mechanisms to collect metrics, traces, events. What that does is it makes it easy for the ecosystem to just pick it up, right? Our belief has been, you know, in the old days monitoring was all about proprietary instrumentation and collection. Today it's all about analysis. So the fact that all of this is openly available, in open source or standards based mechanisms, is great for us, it's great for the customers, it's great for the ecosystem. >> That's their one-to-many way of building integration systems. >> And that's why you guys are supporting Knative, as an example. >> Yep. >> That's really kind of supporting the open source ecosystem, ties it to Google cloud. >> Yeah, I mean, we generally support, our customers are running in every single configuration (John laughing) and type of technology you can imagine, so it's our work philosophy to just be everywhere they are, and to support all of the tech that they might be running. But in general we're big supporters of open source, in that, you know, developers are now running most software. That's the world of web services and SaaS. And developers have a preference for understanding the stacks that they're running on, and being able to control it and so that is obviously why open source has just taken off the way it has. >> I think the other dynamic of embracing open-source and standards is it allows us to focus, not on the meetings with product managers and getting an insight into the roadmap, but on getting the standards based integrations deeply configured with some of, for example, content we provide out of the box for use to your own Google versus for use to your own premise or use to anywhere else. And that's where the differentiation and the value for the customer is, not in kind of getting together on the roadmap and figuring out what to build next. >> You guys should move fast to take advantage of the lift that they get. I'd love it if you guys could just take a minute each to explain SignalFx value proposition 'cause you guys I think are perfectly positioned now as this becomes infrastructure as code with cloud. When should a customer call you guys? When are guys needed? When do guys get called in? Where are you winning? Take a minute to explain when and where you guys fit into the customer environment. >> I would say as soon as a customer starts to leverage a cloud infrastructure, whether that's public cloud, private cloud, open shift, to open stack, pivotal cloud foundry, or a public cloud, how you monitor your infrastructure will be fundamentally different, and we can help you with that. And then along your journey, once you've moved to cloud and you start thinking about how do I build modern application architectures, modern web services, devops, then we are necessary. You cannot get to the cloud native stage where you're releasing software every week unless you have a monitoring system like SignalFx. >> Great, just great. I want to also get your pick your brain on some dynamic that I saw in the keynote, it might not be obvious to the folks that are in the mainstream, but Jennifer Lin gave a demo of taking a workload, and porting it over with a small script, no code modifications, running it on a container. >> Dave: The cloud vMotion >> Anthos migrate was the product but basically migrating workload into containers in the Kubernetes engine automatically with no re-writes, she said what you, where you want. So that kind of, I can see what she did there and that's very cool and that's a game changer that's infrastructureless code, but then she moves to a conversation around services meshes. 'Cause once you get these things on a containerized, inside the Kubernetes engine, you're kind of enabled for using service meshes. This is like the Holy Grail of microservices. This is a big growth area. Can you guys explain what this means, what does this service mesh mean, 'cause once these workloads start to be containerized you're going to see much more migration to this new model. Where does service mesh kick in and why is it important and what should people pay attention to? >> Well I would say one of the fundamental challenges of microservices is what people are calling more and more, observability, right. Because you have so many systems, like a single application or a single transaction, what is an application anymore? A single transaction can flow through dozens, hundreds, of individual microservices. So, and you're changing your applications all the time. So figuring out when you've introduced a problem very quickly is a big challenge. And so one of the big benefits service mesh brings is it provides automatic instrumentation of your applications and requests in a way that makes it very out of the box to get visibility across your entire environment. So that is step one, getting that visibility. The next step is then you obviously need to analyze this corpus of data and its massive, and that's where a solution like SignalFx comes in we can collect all this data and help you really T-signal for noise. Then the last step really is how do you take action on that data, how do you automate responses? Whether it's rolling back a canary release, or shifting a load balancing strategy so that if there's a bad node you stop sending traffic to that. All of that can be automated. And so what service mesh is doing is it's providing the sub street to allow you to really provide that closed loop automation, that infrastructure is code, you know that's the movement that everyone is really focusing on right now. It's a key technology to enable that. >> Tell me about the observability trends, because this has been a hot venture funded area. We hear trace, dynamic tracing, these are techniques, there's a variety of different mechanisms for observability. How does Kubernetes, and now service mesh's impact observability, where is the puck going to be, if you're going to skate to where the puck is, what's the state of the situation? >> Well I think what it does is it makes instrumentation a lot easier. So typically a challenge when you're running a old Java application from 10 years ago, getting visibility into the app, it's a monolith. You to get the full visibility and the full call stack, that's harder to collect. When you're in a microservices world with service mesh, you're getting that visibility automatically. And what becomes more important is understanding the east/west latencies across all these different microservices. So because instrumentation is so much easier with all these new technologies, what it means for monitoring is it really shifts the focus to who can make the most sense of this data, who can provide assistance to the operators to really help them pinpoint when there is a problem, what is the potential cause, and to triage it very quickly. So again, the whole value proposition is shifted to the analysis. >> So Leonid given that, what are your engineering priorities, maybe share a little road map if you could? >> Sure, so if you think about what we just talked about, adoption of Kubernetes, or service meshes, the challenges that those environments bring both the femorality of the environments on which you now deploy compared to what most of the operators and application developers are used to, as well as the constant motion in the system, right. Kupernetes will move the workload several times an hour and the amount of data those systems tend to generate becomes fairly difficult to cope not just to a monitoring system, but to a human, right? So how can you take about what Karthik talked about all this noise and get it into an actionable intelligence across tens of millions times series an hour possibly in the middle of the night, how do you get the operator to the root cause very quickly? And what kind of technologies do we need to have as a vendor, and that's where we spend a lot of time thinking about, how do we provide actionable insight for those highly femoral environments that are getting even more femoral? >> One of the themes that's here, and already we're seeing it pop out of Google Next, and we've seen it in the other cloud shows we've gone to is, complexity is increasing, and the business model that seems to work well is taking complexity and making things simple. >> Mhm >> Right >> Whether it's extraction layers or other techniques, how does a customer, who's got all these new suppliers, new dynamics, new shift in the marketplace, new business models, how does a customer deploy IT, deploy cloud, and move the complexity to a simplicity model? This is a hard challenge. >> Well, I think that's one of the fundamental mental model shifts that an organization needs to make. Complexity was your enemy in the old days. Right, because you were releasing software once a year, twice a year and so you don't want it to be complex. But if your goal is speed and innovation, you're going to have to accept some complexity to get that speed and innovation. You just have to decide where is that complexity acceptable and how do you change your processes and your tooling to minimize the impact of that complexity. So I think I would disagree with that sentiment because I think organizations have to start thinking about things differently if they really want to move quickly. >> So embrace complexity. >> You have to embrace complexity and you have to think about what are the mitigating factors I need to take in my organization structure, my processes, my tooling, to compensate for the additional complexity I'm creating, but still release software as quickly as I used to. >> I would add, I think in a lot of ways you're shifting the complexity from infrastructure management more up the stack. >> That's, ya. >> In many ways IT is getting more complex, to your point Karthik. >> Ya, I mean all of these extractions make perhaps the underlying infrastructure less complex to manage but you're absolutely right Dave, the applications will become more complex when you move to microservices and you've got 50 pizza box teams working on a bunch of microservices, there's an organizational dynamic as much as there's a tech dynamic, right. How do you get these 50 teams to communicate with one another if there's a issue, an incident. >> And the data pathways, the data pipelines, the journey of that data, is much, much more complex. >> Ya absolutely. >> Final question, as the developers and operators come together, that seems to be a big trend. Developers want frictionless environment, programmable internet, they're going to be spitting up these services and then the operators have to run it. Those worlds are coming together. What's your thoughts on the operations side and developers coming together? >> I think they're two peas in a pod. They're two parts, they're two necessary parts. I think you will see more and more automation move up the stack. I think the place to start is really in the infrastructure layer and it will make the lives of operators of these cloud environments simpler. And then I think that automation will move up the stack as well over time. >> What's the most important story coming out of Google Next, if you can just kind of read the tea leaves, get a sense of what's going on here? 2019, whole new year, whole new game changing. What are your guys' thoughts on what's kind of going on in the cloud business this year? What' going on at Google Next? What's the big story? >> Well I think from my perspective it's very clear they're focused a lot on multi cloud, cloud agnostic and where the right ones run anywhere and run on Google. That seems to be a big push. And then the other is they're just behind on go to market and they seem to be focusing quite a bit on investing in all of the other elements, non-technology elements, to make organizations successful. >> Leonid, on the tech side, what do you see as the big in story here? >> I think Google was always found on the tech and they're continuing to deepen it. I think more interesting for me the story is about the go to market and embracing the complexity of the enterprise. >> Right >> And recognizing that not every application that will come to Google Cloud will be architected in a modern way. The thousands upon thousands of applications that have to lift and shift still and surviving some of the announcements around the service mesh are great enablers for those customers to start embracing the cloud technology. >> Tech geeks love service mesh, I'm a big fan. Guys, thanks for sharing the insight. Give a quick plug for what's going on for SignalFx. What's going on in the company? What are you guys looking to do? Are you hiring, are you expanding, what's going on? >> Ya we're in rapid growth here as a company. We're really excited about microservices APM product that we introduced late last year and what that does is it brings distributed trace analytics to our core monitoring platform. So what that allows you to do is get bottoms up visibility into each individual component through our metrics system, but also a transaction oriented view through our micro services APM product. Bringing the two together, super excited about the level of sophistication and analytics that it's going to bring our customers. >> What's the head count? What's the head count now, roughly? >> We're about 250 people right now. >> 250 okay, and you've raised over nine figures, I think? >> Over a hundred million dollars yeah. >> That's great, congratulations. >> So Karthik as a founder, what's it like to have the vision early and seeing it, and staying the course? And you've stayed on the right wave. >> Yeah. >> And now the wave's gotten bigger, what's it like to be the founder and be where you are now? >> It's terrifying at first because you don't know if the markets are going to move in the direction you need them to, but it's very gratifying when that actually happens and we're very fortunate that the world is moving very squarely into cloud based architectures, and not just cloud but all of these modern run times that are exactly what we predicted the world would look like for the last six years now. >> And you had a great team, engineering team was solid, you've got great chops. Any advice for entrepreneurs out there who are now getting into this world, maybe younger entrepreneurs coming out, building some applications? What's your advice to other founders that are... >> I could spend hours on that topic (laughter) >> I think >> Dave: Ship early and often >> You just have to continue to have faith and conviction in your beliefs and stick it out because there are lots of twists and turns, especially in the early days if you're betting ahead of the curve, you need to be patient and continue to have belief in yourself and your ideas. >> Well congratulations the world has right spun to your doorstep, congratulations with SignalFx. Thanks for coming on theCube. We're in San Francisco for theCube's coverage. Day one of three days. I'm John with Dave Vellante. Stay with us for more live coverage after this short break. (light electronic music)

(vibrant music) >> Everybody welcome to the special CUBE conversation here at the Palo Alto studios of theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We're here with Dayna Rothman, Vice President of Marketing at Mesosphere. Great to see you. Thanks for coming in. >> Yeah, thanks so much for having me. >> So you guys have a lot of action going on. >> Yes. >> A lot of funding, new CEO, a very successful KubeCon part of the CNCF, we saw each other there. The space is out of control right now. The growth is amazing. >> Yes. >> Amazon reinvent two weeks before in Vegas, packed. >> There's been a lot going on, geez. >> Talk about Mesosphere. You guys got some news and momentum. Talk about the momentum. >> Yeah, we've had a ton of momentum. We got 126 million in funding about eight months ago, or so, a little bit before I joined. I joined five, six months ago. Things have really kicked off in the space. Obviously, the space has gone crazy with everything around Kubernetes and all the different acquisitions and just almost crossing the chasm into some of those later adopters now, which has been really, really great for us. After the funding and hiring on a lot of seasoned executives, we're really taking marketing to the next place, taking what we're doing with product to the next phase, so it's been a great ride so far. >> Yeah, we've had a chance to interview you guys a lot over the years from OpenStack and then as the Cloud Native moves into the mainstream. It's interesting. The tech chops are solid, great company DNA, but it's interesting. You go back a year and a half or two years ago and say the word Kubernete, would be like, what language are you speaking? >> Yeah. >> Now, you see it in Forbes, see it everywhere. Kubernetes has risen to mainstream. Amazon Cloud, Google, Microsoft, they're all growing. Kubernetes is like a core, major generational thing in the tech world. You're new. >> Yes. >> What do you think about Kubernetes? Do you look at this, wow, what is Kubernetes? How did you get attracted to Mesosphere and what do you think about all this? >> Yeah, the funny thing about, just a Kubernetes story and me, I guess. A couple companies ago, working for MarTech company, I did have a boss that actually came from this space and I distinctly remember him talking about Kubernetes at that time and, coming from a different space, I just had like, what are you even talking about? He was going to KubeCon in the early days. So, I was actually familiar with it. Then, how I got attracted to Mesosphere and this space, I'd been at MarTech for a decade and really looking just to do something else and who's doing something really innovative, where's a different space that I can go in that's really growing. MarTech and SalesTech, a lot of these little players right now and nobody's really innovating. Actually, with Mesosphere, my husband actually works there as well and he started about a year and a half ago and I had spoken to the executive team several times about just marketing, best practices and marketing leadership, revenue and attribution, and the more I spoke to them, the more interested I got in the company, and then this role was available and it was just a great fit, plus I knew some of the ins and outs already just from having that connection to Mesosphere in the first place. >> Was it just saying too, you mentioned MarTech. We've been following that space for a long time. We actually got to see how this works with the first cloud before Cloud was a cloud. MarTech was very Cloud-oriented from day one. You think about what that was, self-service, lot of data issues, lot of applications that had real value, 'cause money's there. You got leads and all kinds of marketing activity, so MarTech has that almost cloud-first DNA to begin with and you come from that. Now when you come over to the Cloud Native, you're seeing the developer world building a whole 'nother generation of what looks like many industries that have that same characteristics, self-service, large scale, data. These are the top conversations. >> Yeah. >> So, interesting connection that you have that background. So when you come into this world and you see all these developers building out this application layer, CICD pipelining, and then below Kubernetes, you got all this tech, where are the opportunities? What's the value proposition from Mesosphere? What are you guys attacking? Who's your buyer? Are they developers, are they going to be businesses? Take a minute to explain that. >> A couple of different things to address some of your points. As far as our buyers and where the space is going, I think where we're really strong is really having that enterprise DNA where we can take a lot of this tech and a lot of these open-source projects and really make them enterprise ready so that companies that are much bigger and have all these security regulations and red tape can actually leverage them so that they can continue innovating. As we grow, our buyers are also evolving, from, in the earlier days, mostly developers, engineers, more of that technical crowd, but now we're coming across a lot more executive level folks. We're talking to the CIOs, the CTOs, the business users where we have to shift a little bit and have more of that business use case. The other thing is really that we're getting past the point of the really early adopters. We have customers that have been with us for awhile that are very innovative, Silicon Valley companies, and now we're seeing different industries. We have a lot of automotive clients, finance, manufacturings, some of these older industries that want to adopt technology like Kubernetes, but they don't know how to fit it into what their organization needs and wants from the IT department. >> So there's a lot of education involved, probably. >> I would imagine. >> Yes. >> Value creates other customers. Okay, I've got all these workloads. I see all the early adopters and the web-scale guys. We all live around here. We know all the Ubers and everyone else out there. Lift, what a great case study when you read those guys. But the mainstreamed America kind of companies that have data sets and are going to go to Cloud have to move these workloads around. Are they coming to you guys for specific help? Are they saying, teach us how to do it? What are the specific conversations that you guys have with those customers? >> Sure. Sometimes they come to us with a specific project, but the education piece I think is really big for us to get to the next level on what we're trying to do. That's where what I'm building out in the marketing team is going to be really powerful, so that instead of people coming to us on a project basis, we're educating some of these enterprise companies on how they can leverage it, what they should be thinking about, how they can make that transformation to more of a cloud-like environment and what they need to think about. That's a big part of the strategy going forward, is that we want to get out there as educators, as thought leaders in the space so that we can get in front of some of these folks that maybe have heard of Kubernetes or are thinking about it but don't quite understand what it is and how it fits into their business. We do, though, get several questions on just, hey, I'm interested in CICD, what is it, or what is this Kubernetes, can you guys help us? That's where we're jumping in. >> I want to ask you a question about the B2Bs and the BI space because one of the things I think is really interesting is you start to see the mainstream tech press go, whoa, Enterprise is hot, consumer's not. It tends to have these cycles and when you start to see companies like Mesosphere going to the next level, they're targeting customers in mainstream enterprise. They have to up their game and get on the marketing side. You're hired to do that. What's your strategy? Is it fill the pipeline, is it more educational, build more event, evangelism, localization, is it global? Take us through your vision of what's next level for Mesosphere. >> I think definitely all of those things and one of the most important things for me is, when I came on board, it was really, from an operational perspective, making sure that our marketing department is ready for scale in that we have all the things that we need in order to generate those leads and accelerate them through the pipeline and that we're really partnering with the sales team, so when I think about marketing, it's not just top funnel region, it's like what are the different programs that we're doing in the middle of the funnel to accelerate opportunities to help close deals and that's where we actually create different campaigns to serve some of the middle of the funnel functions. Content is a big piece of my strategy. I come from a content marketing background. I ran content marketing at Marketo for several years pre IPO into post and I really created the content engine there. So I've seen the value of thought leadership content, creating content for the different levels of the buyer journey, so that's a big focus for my team and then building that out with different multi-channel campaigns. Events are huge for us. I love events and we do big scale conferences and ancillary events around the conferences and then we also have a very active field marketing program where we're going into the regions and doing these smaller executive events that are very high-touch. So, it's really like all the different pieces. Right now, we're working on brand, we're working on look and feel, we'll redo the website, so we have everything. >> You're busy. >> Very. (laughs) >> You look great. >> Well, I'm going on. >> You look like you're not stressed at all. You look really relaxed. >> No. >> I want to ask you a question, 'cause you're on the cutting edge, you've got a great background. I love the MarTech. I've always said MarTech never really lived up to its promise because Cloud changed the game, but I still think MarTech will be huge, because with Cloud-scale and data driven strategies, I think it's going to be explosive even further than what we've seen, but there's been a lot of venture backing as Marketo has been successful, just recently bought by Adobe, but as you look at the digital landscape, you mentioned events, what's your thoughts on digital and physical events, 'cause you mentioned high-touch events, spectrum of activities you're deploying, you got physical events which are turning out to be quite fantastic, Face-to-Face is intimate. There's a lot of networking, and digital. How do you bring the event physical world with the digital. How do you view that as a marketer? We combine them, especially for the bigger event campaigns, so whether it's a trade show booth or an ancillary event around a trade show, like a very large party or something like that, we'll have a whole digital promotional strategy around that that includes, maybe we'll create a micro-site, we have ads that are targeted to people that we think that are going to attend these events, we'll do paid programs, other paid channels to drive attendance and to generate that visibility, so I really like to combine them and also email and nurturing is a big part of the strategy as well but it's important to have that online and offline presence and they should map to each other. >> It's interesting, we're seeing a trend, through theCUBE I've been to a lot of events where people want the digital experience to map to what's it like onsite; reputation, work with good people, have that kind of vibe, and it's evolving and search marketing has always been effective. Email marketing is out there, that's tried and true ways to fill the top of the funnel. Is there new techniques that you see coming that marketers should be aware of? You have that history with MarTech. You've seen where it's been and where it's going. What's a new hot area that you're watching that's evolving in real time, because we're go to a web 3.0 where the users have different expectations. It's not just email blasts anymore, although that's one mechanism. What's the new thing? What are you looking at? >> It's this like a new-old thing, I guess, (laughs) but comp-based marketing is something a lot of marketers are getting into right now and it's certainly a hot trend and a hot topic and it's really, I guess, an older way of thinking about marketing instead of that very wide top funnel region where you're just trying to get just thousands of people into your funnel and doing different things, you have your set key account list that you're going after, that your company and your reps and marketing all agree on and you're doing very targeted campaigns to those specific accounts, so we've been doing some really interesting things with different ad platforms. They have ad platforms now where you can actually target on an account by account basis, based on IP address and a lot of other attributes, and you can actually do account-based nurturing through ads, which is very interesting. I can have an ad that specifically calls out the company that only that company sees. Direct mail is actually also a pretty big piece of this, which again, is an older thing. Not direct mail like a little postcard you get, but like a dimensional mailer for an executive >> It's not a spray and pray, very targeted. >> No, it's very targeted. >> Talk about the dynamic, because you're now getting into what we're seeing as a trend where it's not just the marketing person, hey where are my Glengarry leads, or where are the leads, the leads aren't good enough, always that finger-pointing that's tended to go on traditionally, and I may be oversimplifying it, but-- >> It still happens. (laughs) >> The partnering with sales becomes even more critical because you have a lot of surface area in your marketing mix. That's not going away, you mentioned those variety of things, but tightening it up with sales and sales enablement seems to be a trend in marketing in general with data-driven things, because now you can measure everything. Now, it's like, what do you measure? So, having a tighter coupling with sales is a key thing. Talk about that dynamic and how it's changing and what you guys are doing. >> Being really tightly coupled with the sales development team and the sales team is a super important part of our strategy. Even when I think of what our goals are as a marketing organization, it's a lot later in the funnel than I think, historically, marketers have been measured. When I'm reporting out on performance, I report out on the entire funnel. I look at conversion rates for every single stage. Marketing is measured on pipeline and revenue and because of that reason, that requires a very tight coupling with the sales department, understanding who they're going after, what's working, what's not and where people are in the sales cycle so that marketing can jump in and it really assists them. It's not like a who gets credit for what type of situation. It's like we're all moving towards the same goal, so different things that we do, and I think attribution and measurement really helps quite a bit with this, is we can measure what campaign works for different regions. We know what campaigns are good for sourcing people, what campaigns are good for accelerating somebody from a meeting to an op. We can get very granular with topics, channels, campaign types and even accounts, looking at account engagement, so that information is really powerful when you partner with an AE and go at it together. We do a lot of later-stage field events as well, where we're going after key executives in open opportunities and doing very high-end dinners or maybe we're doing a track day or something like that. >> It's interesting because the world's changing from the, again, old to new, is interesting. I love how you put that, because the old way was big end budget, throw it out there, get the reach, and then now it's much more targeted, much more tactical. Still the same strategic objectives, but then cut up into more tactical programs. Is that a challenge for some? Just while you're here, your insight is so amazing. Other marketers that aren't as savvy as you, try to tackle this, what's your advice to them when you start thinking about that, because I'm sure you get asked all the time, how do I tackle this new world? How do you advise friends and colleagues in the industry when they say, I've got to move from the 50/50 ad spin where I don't know where it's being measured, it's a big budget, big ad agency, I want to take those dollars and deploy them into what looks like programs that used to have smaller budgets but in totality can be effective? What's your advice? >> I think it's a hard jump for a lot of marketers. A lot of marketers that I've come in contact with do have that, even if it's not like that big ad budget mentality, it's like that, oh we're responsible for generating leads, and that's kind of where it ends, and you talk impressions in those types of metrics. I think in order to really survive as a marketer these days, you have to move to that next level where you're measuring things and you're really thinking about that full funnel. The advice that I give to a lot of high-end executive teams is to start measuring your marketing department, your VP, your CMO on later stage metrics so that potentially their comp, if it's a bonus or whatever, that it's aligned to the sales team and that we're looking at pipeline and revenue instead of leads generated or impressions or other things like that. >> So real conversion. >> Yeah, just a little bit of a forcing function to get folks there and that's what I do with my team when we look at performance. >> Well Dayna, you're a real pro. Looking forward to having more conversations. I love the MarTech background that you have. I think Cloud Native is essentially going to have, as a major feature, MarTech kind of things. Data, content, analysis, real time, full measurement across multiple spectrums. That's the premise of Cloud, so love to follow up with you. Final topic area is Mesosphere. As you guys go next level, got some big funding, new CEO, what's the positioning, what's the value statement, how are you guys posturing to the marketplace? >> Really focusing on that, how these leader adopters are able to have these enterprise standards by having the flexibility of what some of these different technologies and platforms are able to give these companies. We're definitely focusing a lot on innovating through IOT and we're doing some really cool projects with customers on how they can use our platform for those types of projects and really, from a Kupernetes perspective, we're continuing to work on how we can optimize and drive our value proposition there. Then, again, thinking more in that Cloud-like way, how can we continue pushing the envelope in that Cloud-like experience for our own platform and software. >> Takeaway for you when you look at Amazon reinvent, which was a couple weeks ago and then KubeCon CNCF, Cloud Native Computing Foundation event in Seattle just last week. What was your big takeaway? If you had to look back and zoom out and go on the balcony and look at the stage of the industry, what was your takeaway? What was your personal takeaway? What anecdotal things popped out at you? What was the learnings that you saw in those two events? What's happening? >> I think, again, as time goes, I think a lot of the themes I've been talking about. Especially at KubeCon with 8000 people, they were sold out way before the event. We were actually very surprised that they sold out. We weren't prepared for that 'cause we still had to purchase a bunch of additional tickets, but I think just the popularity of some of these technologies and the business folks and the executives that are attending these events, it is starting to move more towards that enterprise. How can we adopt this stuff for the enterprise? For both events, for me that was a key takeaway. When you're looking at the different vendors, even on the expo floor, what are they talking about, what are they trying to do? Then the attendance at these events and even a lot of the talks were around bringing this stuff to the next level, having more of that cloud-like experience for the enterprise and having those best practices in there. >> As the serious marketer that you are, what was your impression of the role the community plays, because Mesosphere has a great position in the community. They've been a great steward in the community, have a great reputation. The role of the community now as part of the whole marketing production system in and of itself. Reputation, referrals, this is a big part of it. This is a dynamic. Your thoughts on role of the community in marketing in these new areas. >> Role of the community is huge. You need the community on your side in order to grow the business, because those are the folks that are going to evangelize. Those are where the influencers are coming from. For me, as I've gotten into this space, it's really been trying to understand who these people are, what they're interested in, how we can provide value, how we can provide fun, what are the ways we can partner with the community and approach it in more of like a humanistic way, so that's what we've been doing a lot of work, in just trying to get to know the community and creating marketing that is effective and an assistance to them as well. >> One that adds value is always, it's like an upstream project. You create value, you get respected for it, as long as you're not trying to overplay your hand. I do want to get your thoughts on reaction to KubeCon. I thought one of the things that happened there, besides theCUBE being there, of course, we were there from the beginning, was, you guys stole the show at Mesosphere. You had Ice Cube perform, and that was the buzz of the show. Talk about what happened, what was the response, Ice Cube performed, it was great reviews, saw it on Twitter. What was that all about? Share some stories. >> I thought, when we were trying to plan KubeCon, and how can we really, my goal was, I want to take over the show and really generate that buzz. Again, a big piece of that is the community and trying to think of, what can we do for the community that's going to get them excited. Picking an artist is a challenge, right? It's got to hit all these different goals, like you've got to pick somebody that's not crazy millions of dollars, you have to pick somebody that people are really familiar with, you have to pick somebody that most people like that's still relevant. So I think choosing Ice Cube was an important piece of that. Then, that it was just, to me, having come from the MarTech space and the sales-type space, I know what some of these huge, impactful parties and side events can have on a brand and that space is very, that happens a lot, and I've done that in several companies. I don't think it's really happening as much in this space from my experience so far, >> That KubeCon first and that was a big, big production. >> Yeah, exactly. >> What was the feedback? Were you happy with the results, 'cause I thought it was fantastic. >> It was great. We got fantastic feedback. I knew it would be, when we launched it, a very new thing, so it created a lot of buzz, a lot of chatter, could be controversial, which I was prepared for and I thought would be good to start that conversation, but at the event, it was just incredible. We had a completely packed house. Everyone was so excited to be there. We had great reactions on Twitter and I think that the community was just really happy to have that place where we can all come together and have a great time and that enabled us to put our brand out there as, so when people think of Mesosphere, they'll remember that event, so it's been incredibly successful. >> The Ice Cube, great job. Okay, I want to get your thoughts, 2019, what's going to happen for you in 2019? What can we expect from Mesosphere? >> We can definitely expect some great product innovations, different things we're working on, especially with the funding, and a new CEO. We're definitely looking to, we're going to take the brand into the next level. I think you're going to see us a lot more. I'm thinking through a potential, kind of our own user conference in San Francisco for next year, where we'll do a couple of days. Multi-track, thought leadership, a bigger production, so that's something that's exciting. We've got a lot of great programs planned for 2019. >> Awesome. Well, congratulations on a great event at KubeCon with Ice Cube and all of the successful momentum at Mesosphere. >> Yeah, thank you. >> Dayna Rothman here, Vice President of Marketing at Mesosphere, turning up the heat in the marketing, bringing Mesosphere to the next level. A lot of momentum. The industry's on fire, it's just an amazing time in Cloud Native. This is theCUBE covering every day in Cloud Native here. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. (vibrant music)

(vibrant music) >> Everybody welcome to the special CUBE conversation here at the Palo Alto studios of theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We're here with Dayna Rothman, Vice President of Marketing at Mesosphere. Great to see you. Thanks for coming in. >> Yeah, thanks so much for having me. >> So you guys have a lot of action going on. >> Yes. >> A lot of funding, new CEO, a very successful CubeCon part of the CNCF, we saw each other there. The space is out of control right now. The growth is amazing. >> Yes. >> Amazon reinvent two weeks before in Vegas, packed. >> There's been a lot going on, geez. >> Talk about Mesosphere. You guys got some news and momentum. Talk about the momentum. >> Yeah, we've had a ton of momentum. We got 126 million in funding about eight months ago, or so, a little bit before I joined. I joined five, six months ago. Things have really kicked off in the space. Obviously, the space has gone crazy with everything around Kubernetes and all the different acquisitions and just almost crossing the chasm into some of those later adopters now, which has been really, really great for us. After the funding and hiring on a lot of seasoned executives, we're really taking marketing to the next place, taking what we're doing with product to the next phase, so it's been a great ride so far. >> Yeah, we've had a chance to interview you guys a lot over the years from OpenStack and then as the Cloud Native moves into the mainstream. It's interesting. The tech chops are solid, great company DNA, but it's interesting. You go back a year and a half or two years ago and say the word Kubernete, would be like, what language are you speaking? >> Yeah. >> Now, you see it in Forbes, see it everywhere. Kubernetes has risen to mainstream. Amazon Cloud, Google, Microsoft, they're all growing. Kubernetes is like a core, major generational thing in the tech world. You're new. >> Yes. >> What do you think about Kubernetes? Do you look at this, wow, what is Kubernetes? How did you get attracted to Mesosphere and what do you think about all this? >> Yeah, the funny thing about, just a Kubernetes story and me, I guess. A couple companies ago, working for MarTech company, I did have a boss that actually came from this space and I distinctly remember him talking about Kubernetes at that time and, coming from a different space, I just had like, what are you even talking about? He was going to CubeCon in the early days. So, I was actually familiar with it. Then, how I got attracted to Mesosphere and this space, I'd been at MarTech for a decade and really looking just to do something else and who's doing something really innovative, where's a different space that I can go in that's really growing. MarTech and SalesTech, a lot of these little players right now and nobody's really innovating. Actually, with Mesosphere, my husband actually works there as well and he started about a year and a half ago and I had spoken to the executive team several times about just marketing, best practices and marketing leadership, revenue and attribution, and the more I spoke to them, the more interested I got in the company, and then this role was available and it was just a great fit, plus I knew some of the ins and outs already just from having that connection to Mesosphere in the first place. >> Was it just saying too, you mentioned MarTech. We've been following that space for a long time. We actually got to see how this works with the first cloud before Cloud was a cloud. MarTech was very Cloud-oriented from day one. You think about what that was, self-service, lot of data issues, lot of applications that had real value, 'cause money's there. You got leads and all kinds of marketing activity, so MarTech has that almost cloud-first DNA to begin with and you come from that. Now when you come over to the Cloud Native, you're seeing the developer world building a whole 'nother generation of what looks like many industries that have that same characteristics, self-service, large scale, data. These are the top conversations. >> Yeah. >> So, interesting connection that you have that background. So when you come into this world and you see all these developers building out this application layer, CICD pipelining, and then below Kubernetes, you got all this tech, where are the opportunities? What's the value proposition from Mesosphere? What are you guys attacking? Who's your buyer? Are they developers, are they going to be businesses? Take a minute to explain that. >> A couple of different things to address some of your points. As far as our buyers and where the space is going, I think where we're really strong is really having that enterprise DNA where we can take a lot of this tech and a lot of these open-source projects and really make them enterprise ready so that companies that are much bigger and have all these security regulations and red tape can actually leverage them so that they can continue innovating. As we grow, our buyers are also evolving, from, in the earlier days, mostly developers, engineers, more of that technical crowd, but now we're coming across a lot more executive level folks. We're talking to the CIOs, the CTOs, the business users where we have to shift a little bit and have more of that business use case. The other thing is really that we're getting past the point of the really early adopters. We have customers that have been with us for awhile that are very innovative, Silicon Valley companies, and now we're seeing different industries. We have a lot of automotive clients, finance, manufacturings, some of these older industries that want to adopt technology like Kubernetes, but they don't know how to fit it into what their organization needs and wants from the IT department. >> So there's a lot of education involved, probably. >> I would imagine. >> Yes. >> Value creates other customers. Okay, I've got all these workloads. I see all the early adopters and the web-scale guys. We all live around here. We know all the Ubers and everyone else out there. Lift, what a great case study when you read those guys. But the mainstreamed America kind of companies that have data sets and are going to go to Cloud have to move these workloads around. Are they coming to you guys for specific help? Are they saying, teach us how to do it? What are the specific conversations that you guys have with those customers? >> Sure. Sometimes they come to us with a specific project, but the education piece I think is really big for us to get to the next level on what we're trying to do. That's where what I'm building out in the marketing team is going to be really powerful, so that instead of people coming to us on a project basis, we're educating some of these enterprise companies on how they can leverage it, what they should be thinking about, how they can make that transformation to more of a cloud-like environment and what they need to think about. That's a big part of the strategy going forward, is that we want to get out there as educators, as thought leaders in the space so that we can get in front of some of these folks that maybe have heard of Kubernetes or are thinking about it but don't quite understand what it is and how it fits into their business. We do, though, get several questions on just, hey, I'm interested in CICD, what is it, or what is this Kubernetes, can you guys help us? That's where we're jumping in. >> I want to ask you a question about the B2Bs and the BI space because one of the things I think is really interesting is you start to see the mainstream tech press go, whoa, Enterprise is hot, consumer's not. It tends to have these cycles and when you start to see companies like Mesosphere going to the next level, they're targeting customers in mainstream enterprise. They have to up their game and get on the marketing side. You're hired to do that. What's your strategy? Is it fill the pipeline, is it more educational, build more event, evangelism, localization, is it global? Take us through your vision of what's next level for Mesosphere. >> I think definitely all of those things and one of the most important things for me is, when I came on board, it was really, from an operational perspective, making sure that our marketing department is ready for scale in that we have all the things that we need in order to generate those leads and accelerate them through the pipeline and that we're really partnering with the sales team, so when I think about marketing, it's not just top funnel region, it's like what are the different programs that we're doing in the middle of the funnel to accelerate opportunities to help close deals and that's where we actually create different campaigns to serve some of the middle of the funnel functions. Content is a big piece of my strategy. I come from a content marketing background. I ran content marketing at Marketo for several years pre IPO into post and I really created the content engine there. So I've seen the value of thought leadership content, creating content for the different levels of the buyer journey, so that's a big focus for my team and then building that out with different multi-channel campaigns. Events are huge for us. I love events and we do big scale conferences and ancillary events around the conferences and then we also have a very active field marketing program where we're going into the regions and doing these smaller executive events that are very high-touch. So, it's really like all the different pieces. Right now, we're working on brand, we're working on look and feel, we'll redo the website, so we have everything. >> You're busy. >> Very. (laughs) >> You look great. >> Well, I'm going on. >> You look like you're not stressed at all. You look really relaxed. >> No. >> I want to ask you a question, 'cause you're on the cutting edge, you've got a great background. I love the MarTech. I've always said MarTech never really lived up to its promise because Cloud changed the game, but I still think MarTech will be huge, because with Cloud-scale and data driven strategies, I think it's going to be explosive even further than what we've seen, but there's been a lot of venture backing as Marketo has been successful, just recently bought by Adobe, but as you look at the digital landscape, you mentioned events, what's your thoughts on digital and physical events, 'cause you mentioned high-touch events, spectrum of activities you're deploying, you got physical events which are turning out to be quite fantastic, Face-to-Face is intimate. There's a lot of networking, and digital. How do you bring the event physical world with the digital. How do you view that as a marketer? We combine them, especially for the bigger event campaigns, so whether it's a trade show booth or an ancillary event around a trade show, like a very large party or something like that, we'll have a whole digital promotional strategy around that that includes, maybe we'll create a micro-site, we have ads that are targeted to people that we think that are going to attend these events, we'll do paid programs, other paid channels to drive attendance and to generate that visibility, so I really like to combine them and also email and nurturing is a big part of the strategy as well but it's important to have that online and offline presence and they should map to each other. >> It's interesting, we're seeing a trend, through theCUBE I've been to a lot of events where people want the digital experience to map to what's it like onsite; reputation, work with good people, have that kind of vibe, and it's evolving and search marketing has always been effective. Email marketing is out there, that's tried and true ways to fill the top of the funnel. Is there new techniques that you see coming that marketers should be aware of? You have that history with MarTech. You've seen where it's been and where it's going. What's a new hot area that you're watching that's evolving in real time, because we're go to a web 3.0 where the users have different expectations. It's not just email blasts anymore, although that's one mechanism. What's the new thing? What are you looking at? >> It's this like a new-old thing, I guess, (laughs) but comp-based marketing is something a lot of marketers are getting into right now and it's certainly a hot trend and a hot topic and it's really, I guess, an older way of thinking about marketing instead of that very wide top funnel region where you're just trying to get just thousands of people into your funnel and doing different things, you have your set key account list that you're going after, that your company and your reps and marketing all agree on and you're doing very targeted campaigns to those specific accounts, so we've been doing some really interesting things with different ad platforms. They have ad platforms now where you can actually target on an account by account basis, based on IP address and a lot of other attributes, and you can actually do account-based nurturing through ads, which is very interesting. I can have an ad that specifically calls out the company that only that company sees. Direct mail is actually also a pretty big piece of this, which again, is an older thing. Not direct mail like a little postcard you get, but like a dimensional mailer for an executive >> It's not a spray and pray, very targeted. >> No, it's very targeted. >> Talk about the dynamic, because you're now getting into what we're seeing as a trend where it's not just the marketing person, hey where are my Glengarry leads, or where are the leads, the leads aren't good enough, always that finger-pointing that's tended to go on traditionally, and I may be oversimplifying it, but-- >> It still happens. (laughs) >> The partnering with sales becomes even more critical because you have a lot of surface area in your marketing mix. That's not going away, you mentioned those variety of things, but tightening it up with sales and sales enablement seems to be a trend in marketing in general with data-driven things, because now you can measure everything. Now, it's like, what do you measure? So, having a tighter coupling with sales is a key thing. Talk about that dynamic and how it's changing and what you guys are doing. >> Being really tightly coupled with the sales development team and the sales team is a super important part of our strategy. Even when I think of what our goals are as a marketing organization, it's a lot later in the funnel than I think, historically, marketers have been measured. When I'm reporting out on performance, I report out on the entire funnel. I look at conversion rates for every single stage. Marketing is measured on pipeline and revenue and because of that reason, that requires a very tight coupling with the sales department, understanding who they're going after, what's working, what's not and where people are in the sales cycle so that marketing can jump in and it really assists them. It's not like a who gets credit for what type of situation. It's like we're all moving towards the same goal, so different things that we do, and I think attribution and measurement really helps quite a bit with this, is we can measure what campaign works for different regions. We know what campaigns are good for sourcing people, what campaigns are good for accelerating somebody from a meeting to an op. We can get very granular with topics, channels, campaign types and even accounts, looking at account engagement, so that information is really powerful when you partner with an AE and go at it together. We do a lot of later-stage field events as well, where we're going after key executives in open opportunities and doing very high-end dinners or maybe we're doing a track day or something like that. >> It's interesting because the world's changing from the, again, old to new, is interesting. I love how you put that, because the old way was big end budget, throw it out there, get the reach, and then now it's much more targeted, much more tactical. Still the same strategic objectives, but then cut up into more tactical programs. Is that a challenge for some? Just while you're here, your insight is so amazing. Other marketers that aren't as savvy as you, try to tackle this, what's your advice to them when you start thinking about that, because I'm sure you get asked all the time, how do I tackle this new world? How do you advise friends and colleagues in the industry when they say, I've got to move from the 50/50 ad spin where I don't know where it's being measured, it's a big budget, big ad agency, I want to take those dollars and deploy them into what looks like programs that used to have smaller budgets but in totality can be effective? What's your advice? >> I think it's a hard jump for a lot of marketers. A lot of marketers that I've come in contact with do have that, even if it's not like that big ad budget mentality, it's like that, oh we're responsible for generating leads, and that's kind of where it ends, and you talk impressions in those types of metrics. I think in order to really survive as a marketer these days, you have to move to that next level where you're measuring things and you're really thinking about that full funnel. The advice that I give to a lot of high-end executive teams is to start measuring your marketing department, your VP, your CMO on later stage metrics so that potentially their comp, if it's a bonus or whatever, that it's aligned to the sales team and that we're looking at pipeline and revenue instead of leads generated or impressions or other things like that. >> So real conversion. >> Yeah, just a little bit of a forcing function to get folks there and that's what I do with my team when we look at performance. >> Well Dayna, you're a real pro. Looking forward to having more conversations. I love the MarTech background that you have. I think Cloud Native is essentially going to have, as a major feature, MarTech kind of things. Data, content, analysis, real time, full measurement across multiple spectrums. That's the premise of Cloud, so love to follow up with you. Final topic area is Mesosphere. As you guys go next level, got some big funding, new CEO, what's the positioning, what's the value statement, how are you guys posturing to the marketplace? >> Really focusing on that, how these leader adopters are able to have these enterprise standards by having the flexibility of what some of these different technologies and platforms are able to give these companies. We're definitely focusing a lot on innovating through IOT and we're doing some really cool projects with customers on how they can use our platform for those types of projects and really, from a Kupernetes perspective, we're continuing to work on how we can optimize and drive our value proposition there. Then, again, thinking more in that Cloud-like way, how can we continue pushing the envelope in that Cloud-like experience for our own platform and software. >> Takeaway for you when you look at Amazon reinvent, which was a couple weeks ago and then CubeCon CNCF, Cloud Native Computing Foundation event in Seattle just last week. What was your big takeaway? If you had to look back and zoom out and go on the balcony and look at the stage of the industry, what was your takeaway? What was your personal takeaway? What anecdotal things popped out at you? What was the learnings that you saw in those two events? What's happening? >> I think, again, as time goes, I think a lot of the themes I've been talking about. Especially at CubeCon with 8000 people, they were sold out way before the event. We were actually very surprised that they sold out. We weren't prepared for that 'cause we still had to purchase a bunch of additional tickets, but I think just the popularity of some of these technologies and the business folks and the executives that are attending these events, it is starting to move more towards that enterprise. How can we adopt this stuff for the enterprise? For both events, for me that was a key takeaway. When you're looking at the different vendors, even on the expo floor, what are they talking about, what are they trying to do? Then the attendance at these events and even a lot of the talks were around bringing this stuff to the next level, having more of that cloud-like experience for the enterprise and having those best practices in there. >> As the serious marketer that you are, what was your impression of the role the community plays, because Mesosphere has a great position in the community. They've been a great steward in the community, have a great reputation. The role of the community now as part of the whole marketing production system in and of itself. Reputation, referrals, this is a big part of it. This is a dynamic. Your thoughts on role of the community in marketing in these new areas. >> Role of the community is huge. You need the community on your side in order to grow the business, because those are the folks that are going to evangelize. Those are where the influencers are coming from. For me, as I've gotten into this space, it's really been trying to understand who these people are, what they're interested in, how we can provide value, how we can provide fun, what are the ways we can partner with the community and approach it in more of like a humanistic way, so that's what we've been doing a lot of work, in just trying to get to know the community and creating marketing that is effective and an assistance to them as well. >> One that adds value is always, it's like an upstream project. You create value, you get respected for it, as long as you're not trying to overplay your hand. I do want to get your thoughts on reaction to CubeCon. I thought one of the things that happened there, besides theCUBE being there, of course, we were there from the beginning, was, you guys stole the show at Mesosphere. You had Ice Cube perform, and that was the buzz of the show. Talk about what happened, what was the response, Ice Cube performed, it was great reviews, saw it on Twitter. What was that all about? Share some stories. >> I thought, when we were trying to plan CubeCon, and how can we really, my goal was, I want to take over the show and really generate that buzz. Again, a big piece of that is the community and trying to think of, what can we do for the community that's going to get them excited. Picking an artist is a challenge, right? It's got to hit all these different goals, like you've got to pick somebody that's not crazy millions of dollars, you have to pick somebody that people are really familiar with, you have to pick somebody that most people like that's still relevant. So I think choosing Ice Cube was an important piece of that. Then, that it was just, to me, having come from the MarTech space and the sales-type space, I know what some of these huge, impactful parties and side events can have on a brand and that space is very, that happens a lot, and I've done that in several companies. I don't think it's really happening as much in this space from my experience so far, >> That CubeCon first and that was a big, big production. >> Yeah, exactly. >> What was the feedback? Were you happy with the results, 'cause I thought it was fantastic. >> It was great. We got fantastic feedback. I knew it would be, when we launched it, a very new thing, so it created a lot of buzz, a lot of chatter, could be controversial, which I was prepared for and I thought would be good to start that conversation, but at the event, it was just incredible. We had a completely packed house. Everyone was so excited to be there. We had great reactions on Twitter and I think that the community was just really happy to have that place where we can all come together and have a great time and that enabled us to put our brand out there as, so when people think of Mesosphere, they'll remember that event, so it's been incredibly successful. >> The Ice Cube, great job. Okay, I want to get your thoughts, 2019, what's going to happen for you in 2019? What can we expect from Mesosphere? >> We can definitely expect some great product innovations, different things we're working on, especially with the funding, and a new CEO. We're definitely looking to, we're going to take the brand into the next level. I think you're going to see us a lot more. I'm thinking through a potential, kind of our own user conference in San Francisco for next year, where we'll do a couple of days. Multi-track, thought leadership, a bigger production, so that's something that's exciting. We've got a lot of great programs planned for 2019. >> Awesome. Well, congratulations on a great event at CubeCon with Ice Cube and all of the successful momentum at Mesosphere. >> Yeah, thank you. >> Dayna Rothman here, Vice President of Marketing at Mesosphere, turning up the heat in the marketing, bringing Mesosphere to the next level. A lot of momentum. The industry's on fire, it's just an amazing time in Cloud Native. This is theCUBE covering every day in Cloud Native here. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. (vibrant music)

>> Announcer: Live from Austin, Texas, It's The Cube. Covering KubeCon 2017 and CloudNativeCon 2017. Brought to you by Red Hat, The Lennox Foundation, and The Cube's ecosystem partners. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. Live here in Austin, Texas, this is The Cube's exclusive coverage of the CNCF CloudNativeCon which was yesterday, and today is KubeCon, for Kubernetes conference, and a little bit tomorrow as well, some sessions. Our next guest is Adrian Cockcroft, VP of Cloud Architecture Strategy at AWS, Amazon Web Services, and my co-host Stu Miniman. Obviously, Adrian, an industry legend on Twitter and the industry, formerly with Netflix, knows a lot about AWS, now VP of Cloud Architecture, thanks for joining us. Appreciate it. >> Thanks very much. >> This is your first time as an AWS employee on The Cube. You've been verified. >> I've been on The Cube before. >> Many times. You've been verified. What's going on now with you guys, obviously coming off a hugely successful reinvent, there's a ton of video of me ranting and raving about how you guys are winning, and there's no second place, in the rear-view mirror, certainly Amazon's doing great. But CloudNative's got the formula, here. This is a cultural shift. What is going on here that's similar to what you guys are doing architecturally, why are you guys here, are you evangelizing, are you recruiting, are you proposing anything? What's the story? >> Yeah, it's really all of those things. We've been doing CloudNative for a long time, and the key thing with AWS, we always listen to our customers, and go wherever they take us. That's a big piece of the way we've always managed to keep on top of everything. And in this case, the whole container industry, there's a whole whole market there, there's a lot of different pieces, we've been working on that for a long time, and we found more and more people interested in CNCF and Kubernetes, and really started to engage. Part of my role is to host the open source team that does outbound engagement with all the different open source communities. So I've hired a few people, I hired Arun Gupta, who's very active in CNCF earlier this year, and internally we were looking at, we need to join CNCF at some point. We got to do that eventually and venture in, let's go make it happen. So last summer we just did all the internal paperwork, and running around talking to people and got everyone on the same page. And then in August we announced, hey, we're joining. So we got that done. I'm on the board of CNCF, Arun's my alternate for the board and technical, running around, and really deeply involved in as much of the technology and everything. And then that was largely so that we could kind of get our contributions from engineering on a clear footing. We were starting to contribute to Kupernetes, like as an outsider to the whole thing. So that's why we're, what's going on here? So getting that in place was like the basis for getting the contributions in place, we start hiring, we get the teams in place, and then getting our ducks in a row, if you like. And then last week at Reinvent, we announced EKS, the EC2 Kubernete's Service. And this week, we all had to be here. Like last week after Reinvent, everyone at AWS wants to go and sleep for a week. But no, we're going to go to Austin, we're going to do this. So we have about 20 people here, we came in, I did a little keynote yesterday. I could talk through the different topics, there, but fundamentally we wanted to be here where we've got the engineering teams here, we've got the engineering managers, they're in full-on hiring mode, because we've got the basic teams in place, but there's a lot more we want to do, and we're just going out and engaging, really getting to know the customers in detail. So that's really what drives it. Customer interactions, little bit of hiring, and just being present in this community. >> Adrian, you're very well known in the open source community, everything that you've done. Netflix, when you were on the VC side, you evangelized a bunch of it, if I can use the term. Amazon, many of us from the outside looked and, trying to understand. Obviously Amazon used lots of open source, Amazon's participated in a number of open source. MXNet got a lot of attention, joining the CNCF is something, I know this community, it's been very positively received, everybody's been waiting for it. What can you tell us about how Amazon, how do they think about open source? Is that something that fits into the strategy, or is it a tactic? Obviously, you're building out your teams, that sends certain signals to market, but can you help clarify for those of us that are watching what Amazon thinks about when it comes to this space? >> I think we've been, so, we didn't really have a team focused on outbound communication of what we were doing in open source until I started building this team a year ago. I think that was the missing link. We were actually doing a lot more than most people realized. I'd summarize it as saying, we were doing more than most people expected, but less than we probably could have been given the scale of what we are, the scale that AWS is at. So part of what we're doing is unlocking some internal demand where engineering teams were going. We'd like to open source something, we don't know how to engage with the communities. We're trying to build trust with these communities, and I've hired a team, I've got several people now, who are mostly from the open source community, we were also was kind of interviewing people like crazy. That was our sourcing for this team. So we get these people in and then we kind of say, all right, we have somebody that understands how to build these communities, how to respond, how to engage with the open source community. It's a little different to a standard customer, enterprise, start up, those are different entities that you'd want to relate to. But from a customer point of view, being customer-obsessed as AWS is, how do we get AWS to listen to an open source community and work with them, and meet all their concerns. So we've been, I think, doing a better job of that now we've pretty much got the team in place. >> That's your point, is customer focus is the ethos there. The communities are your customers in this case. So you're formalizing, you're formalizing that for Amazon, which has been so busy building out, and contributing here and there, so it sounds like there was a lot of activity going on within AWS, it was just kind of like contributing, but so much work on building out cloud ... >> Well there's a lot going on, but if no one was out there telling the story, you didn't know about it. Actually one of the best analogies we have for the EKS is actually our EMR, our Hadoop service, which launched 2010 or something, 2009, we've had it forever. But from the first few years when we did EMR, it was actually in a fork. We kept just sort of building our own version of it to do things, but about three or four years ago, we started upstreaming everything, and it's a completely clean, upstreamed version of all the Hadoop and all the related projects. But you make one API call, a cluster appears. Hey, give me a Hadoop cluster. Voom, and I want Spark and I want all these other things on it. And we're basically taking Kubernetes, it's very similar, we're going to reduce that to a single API call, a cluster appears, and it's a fully upstreamed experience. So that's, in terms of an engineering relationship to open source, we've already got a pretty good success story that nobody really knew about. And we're following a very similar path. >> Adrian, can you help us kind of unpack the Amazon Kubernetes stack a little bit? One of the announcements had a lot of attention, definitely got our attention, Fargate, kind of sits underneath what Kubernetes is doing, my understanding. Where are you sitting with the service measures, kind of bring us through the Amazon stack. What does Amazon do on its own versus the open source, and how those all fit together. >> Yeah, so everyone knows Amazon is a place where you can get virtual machines. It's easy to get me a virtual machine from ten years ago, everyone gets that, right? And then about three years ago, I think it was three years ago, we announced Lambda - was that two or three years ago? I lose track of how many reinvents ago it was. But with Lambda it's like, well, just give me a function. But as a first class entity, there's a, give me a function, here's the code I want you to run. We've now added two new ways that you can deploy to, two things you can deploy to. One of them's bare metal, which is already announced, one of the many, many, many announcements last week that might have slipped by without you noticing, but Bare Metal is a service. People go, 'those machines are really big'. Yes, of course they're really big! You get the whole machine and you can be able to bring your own virtualization or run whatever you want. But you could launch, you could run Kubernetes on that if you wanted, but we don't really care what you run it on. So we had Bare Metal, and then we have container. So Fargate is container as a first class entity that you deploy to. So here's my container registry, point you at it, and run one of these for me. And you don't have to think about deploying the underlying machines it's running on, you don't have to think about what version of Lennox it is, you have to build an AMI, all of the agents and fussing around, and you can get it in much smaller chunks. So you can say you get a CPU and half a gig of ram, and have that as just a small container. So it becomes much more granular, and you can get a broader range of mixes. A lot of our instances are sort of powers of two of a ratio of CPU to memory, and with Fargate you can ask for a much broader ratio. So you can have more CPU, less memory, and go back the other way, as well. 'Cause we can mix it up more easily at the container level. So it gives you a lot more flexibility, and if you buy into this, basically you'll get to do a lot of cost reduction for the sort of smaller scale things that you're running. Maybe test environments, you could shrink them down to just the containers and not have a lot of wasted space where you're trying to, you have too many instances running that you want to put it in. So it's partly the finer grain giving you more ability to say -- >> John: Or consumption choice. >> Yeah, and the other thing that we did recently was move to per-second billing, after the first minute, it's per-second. So the granularity of Cloud is now getting to be extremely fine-grained, and Lambda is per hundred millisecond, so it's just a little bit -- >> $4.03 for your bill, I mean this is the key thing. You guys have simplified the consumption experience. Bare Metal, VM's, containers, and functions. I mean pick one. >> Or pick all of them, it's fine. And when you look at the way Fargate's deployed in ECS it's a mixture. It's not all one or all the other, you deploy a number of instances with your containers on them, plus Fargate to deploy some additional containers that maybe didn't fit those instances. Maybe you've got a fleet of GPU enhanced machines, but you want to run a bit of Logic around it, some other containers in the same execution environment, but these don't need to be on the GPU. That kind of thing, you can mix it up. The other part of the question was, so how does this play into Kubernetes, and the discussions are just that we had to release the thing first, and then we can start talking, okay, how does this fit. Parts of the model fit into Kubernetes, parts don't. So we have to expose some more functionality in Fargate for this to make sense, 'cause we've got a really minimal initial release right now, we're going to expose it and add some more features. And then we possibly have to look at ways that we mutate Kubernetes a little bit for it to fit. So the initial EKS release won't include Fargate, because we're just trying to get it out based on what everyone knows today, we'd rather get that out earlier. But we'll be doing development work in the meantime, so a subsequent release we'll have done the integration work, which will all happen in public, in discussion with the community, and we'll have a debate about, okay, this is the features Fargate needs to properly integrate into Kubernetes, and there are other similar services from other top providers that want to integrate to the same API. So it's all going to be done as a public development, how we architect this. >> I saw a tweet here, I want to hear your comments on, it's from your keynote, someone retweeted, "managing over 100,000 clusters on ACS, hashtag Fargate," integrated into ECS, your hashtag, open, ADM's open. What is that hundred thousand number. Is that the total number, is that an example? On elastic container service, what does that mean? >> So ECS is a very large scale, multi-tenant container operation service that we've had for several years. It's in production, if you compare it to Kubernetes it's running much larger clusters, and it's been running at production-grade for longer. So it's a little bit more robust and secure and all those kinds of things. So I think it's missing some Kubernetes features, and there's a few places where we want to bring in capabilities from Kubernetes and make ECS a better experience for people. Think of Kubernetes as some what optimized for the developer experience, and ECS for more the operations experience, and we're trying to bring all this together. It is operating over a hundred thousand clusters of containers, over a hundred thousand clusters. And I think the other number was hundreds of millions of new containers are launched every week, or something like that. I think it was hundreds of millions a week. So, it's a very large scale system that is already deployed, and we're running some extremely large customers on, like Expedia and Macbook. Macbook ... Mac Box. Some of these people are running tens of thousands of containers in production as a single, we have single clusters in the tens of thousands range. So it's a different beast, right? And it meets a certain need, and we're going to evolve it forwards, and Kubernetes is serving a very different purpose. If you look at our data science space, if you want exactly the same Hadoop thing, you can get that on prem, you can run EMR. But we have Athena and Red Shift and all these other ways that are more native to the way we think, where we can go iterate and build something very specific to AWS, so you blend these two together and it depends on what you're trying to achieve. >> Well Adrian, congratulations on a great opportunity, I think the world is excited to have you in your role, if you could clarify and just put the narrative around, what's actually happening in AWS, what's been happening, and what you guys are going to do forward. I'll give you the last minute to let folks know what your job is, what your objective is, what you're looking for to hire, and your philosophy in the open source for AWS. >> I think there's a couple of other projects, and we've talked, this is really all about containers. The other two key project areas that we've been looking at are deep learning frameworks, since all of the deep learning frameworks are open source. A lot of Kubernetes people are using it to run GPUs and do that kind of stuff. So Apache MXNet is another focus on my team. It went into the incubation phase last January, we're walking it through, helping it on its way. It's something where we're 30, 40% of that project is AWS contribution. So we're not dominating it, but we're one of its main sponsors, and we're working with other companies. There's joint work with, it's lots of open source projects around here. We're working with Microsoft on Gluon, we're working with Facebook and Microsoft on Onyx which is an open URL network exchange. There's a whole lot of things going on here. And I have somebody on my team who hasn't started yet, can't tell you who it is, but they're starting pretty soon, who's going to be focusing on that open source, deep learning AI space. And the final area I think is interesting is IOT, serverless, Edge, that whole space. One announcement recently is free AltOS. So again, we sort of acquired the founder of this thing, this free real-time operating system. Everything you have, you probably personally own hundreds of instances of this without knowing it, it's in everything. Just about every little thing that sits there, that runs itself, every light bulb, probably, in your house that has a processor in it, those are all free AltOS. So it's incredibly pervasive, and we did an open source announcement last week where we switched its license to be a pure MIT license, to be more friendly for the community, and announced an Amazon version of it with better Amazon integration, but also some upgrades to the open source version. So, again, we're pushing an open source platform, strategy, in the embedded and IOT space as well. >> And enabling people to build great software, take the software engineering hassles out for the application developers, while giving the software engineers more engineering opportunities to create some good stuff. Thanks for coming on The Cube and congratulations on your continued success, and looking forward to following up on the Amazon Web Services open source collaboration, contribution, and of course, innovation. The Cube doing it's part here with its open source content, three days of coverage of CloudNativeCon and KubeCon. It's our second day, I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, we'll be back with more live coverage in Austin, Texas, after this short break. >> Offscreen: Thank you.

>> Announcer: Live from Austin, Texas, it's theCUBE, covering Kubecon and CloudNativeCon 2017. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Linux Foundation, and theCUBE's ecosystem partners. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. This is theCUBE's exclusive coverage. We are live in Austin, Texas for CloudNativeCon and KubeCon, not to be confused with CUBE, 'cause we don't have a CUBE Con yet, C-U-B-E. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. Next is Armon Dadgar who is the founder and CTO of HashiCorp. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thanks so much for having me. >> Thanks for coming on. So we interviewed your partner in crime Mitchell years ago, and we were riffing in our studio in Palo Alto, and essentially we laid out microsurfaces and all the stuff that's being worked on today. So, congratulations, you guys were right in your bet? >> It's funny to see how the reaction has changed over the last few years. Back then it used to be, we'd go in and it's like, people are like, did you catch a load of those crazy people who came in and talked about microsurfaces, and immutable, and cloud? It's like, get out of here. And now it's funny to be here at KubeCon, and it's like-- >> Well it was fun days back then, it was the purest in DevOps, and I say purest, I mean people who were really cutting their teeth into the new methodology, the new way to develop, the new way to kind of roll out scale, a lot of the challenges involved. Certainly, now it's gone mainstream. >> Armon: Yeah. >> You're seeing no doubt about it, I just came back from re:Invent, from AWS, Lambda, Server List. You got application developers that just don't want to deal with any infrastructure. That's infrastructure as code in the DevOps ethos, and then you got a lot of people in the infrastructure plumbing, and App plumbing world, who actually care about all this stuff, provisioning. So, how are you guys fitting into the new landscape? You guys riding along? Were you guys the first ones paddling out to these waves? How do you guys at HashiCorp look at all this growth? >> So the way we think about it is, I think there's a lot of market confusion right now, just because there's so much happening, and I mean, even just being here it's like, almost overwhelming to just like understand what exactly is this market landscape evolving to? And the way we're thinking about it is, there's really these four discrete layers with the four different people that are involved in tech, right? We have, on one side, we have our IT operators that are just trying to get a handle around, how do I provision things in Amazon, and now I have business groups coming and saying, okay I want to provision in Google, cloud and Azure. How do I really do that in way that I don't lose my sanity? You have your security people who are saying, I've lost my network perimeter, now what? Like, how do I think about secret management, and app identity, and this brave new world of cloud. You have your app developers who are like, I don't care about any of that, just give me a platform where I can push deploy and out the gate it goes, and you deal with it. And then you have the folks that are kind of making it all kind of plug together and work, the networking backbone, who is saying okay, before it was F5 and Juniper and Cisco. What does it mean for me as I'm going cloud? So, the way we're sorting of seeing ourself involved in all of this is, how do we help operators sort of get a handle around the provisioning side, with things like Terraform? How do we help the security folks with tools like Volt? How do we complement things like Kubernetes at the runtime layer, or provide our solution with Nomad, and then on the networking side, how do we provide a consistent service discovery experience with Consul? >> So you guys are really just now just kind of riding in with everybody else, kind of welcoming everybody to the party, if you will. (Armon laughs) What's the big surprise for you as you guys, you know it's not new to you guys, but as you see it evolving, what's jumping out at you? I mean, we're hearing service mesh, pluggable architectures. What are some of the things that's popping out of the woodwork that you're excited about? >> Honestly, the thing that I'm excited about is the excitement about infrastructure, right? I mean, when we started four, five years ago, it was an ice cold market. You'd go and talk to people, like, let's talking about how you're doing provisioning, or your deployment, or how your developers push things, and people were like, do we really have to? Like, let me get a coffee. And now it's like the opposite. It's like people are so excited to talk about the infrastructure, the bits and bytes of it, and I think that for us is probably the most exciting thing. So, whether you come here, and it's like the vibe is electric, right? Like, you guys can attest to it. It's crazy to see the growth of it, and so what's exciting for us is now these conversations are being lit up all across industry. >> Yeah. >> So whether you're talking about hey, how do I provision a thing on cloud, to what's a scheduler and how does that help me, there is this tremendous interest in it. >> Yeah, Armon, take us inside. You talked about, you know, it used to be kind of, we would be talking, is infrastructure boring? What is that change that's happening in customers? Has it just reached a certain maturity level, that now the business, they need to move faster, and therefore I need to adopt these kinds of architectures? What are you seeing when you're talking to customers? >> Yeah, I think that, the sort of, we heard that, the sort of, the line a few times is it's becoming boring, but I think what, and sometimes that's the goal, right? All of these tools, all of infrastructure is plumbing, at the end of the day, right? At the end of the day, the applications of the end users is really what should be, sort of, the exciting bit. And so, it's our responsibility, sort of, as the vendors here in the community, working on the infrastructure, to make the stuff boring. And I think, in that case, what we really mean is that it should be so reliable, so well documented, so scalable that it's brain dead to operate these things. And I think, step one is, let's get people excited about what's the state of the possible, what's the art of the possible in terms of, what do I get in terms of business agility of adopting stuff? Once people start adopting it, let's make it boring for them. Let's make them sure they don't regret it, and that they actually see those benefits. >> Well, it's reliable too. Boring equals reliability. >> Exactly, exactly. >> Yeah, it's interesting. When you walk through the provision, secure, connect, and run, it reminded me a little bit of Chen talking in the Keynote this morning about kind of the stack they see Kubernetes playing. >> Armon: Totally. >> You know, there's some people who will probably look, well, HashiCorp, you guys, you have a platform. You've got some of these projects. Is that, what's compatible, what's replaceable? What's the connection between what you are doing and what's happening in this space? >> Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, think a lot of people are like "Is it odd for HashiCorp to be here?" And I think it goes back to our lens on this market, Which is. we want to provide tools that are sort of discrete in each of these categories and we fully know that customers are not going to go all in on HashiCorp and say, I want all four layers, right? A lot of our customers are Kubernetes users. And so, for us the mission is, okay great, how do we make sure Terraform plays nice with Kubernetes? How do we make sure Vault plays nice? So I actually have a session in about an hour and a half here, talking about Vault integration with Kubernetes. And then, we have a developer advocate talking about using Console with Kubernetes as well. So for us, it's really a play nice story. How do we make all of these work together. >> It's a rising-tide-that-floats-all-boats market, I mean this is what's happening. You guys are actors in the ecosystem. It's not a land grab. No-one can own the stack. That's the whole point of this ecosystem, isn't it? >> It's so big, right, this market that we are talking about is so enormous. It's every organization writing software. (laughing) >> All right, give us the update on HashiCorp. What's going on, what's the latest and greatest you guys are out starting? We interviewed you guys about, I think three years ago, maybe four. Can't even remember now at this point. It seems like a blur. >> Yeah, I mean, so two months ago was our big HashiCom for our user com friends. And for us, the focus has really been saying okay, we've got our initial set of open-source tools out on the market in 2015. And we said okay, lets take a pause. There's already so many tools, lets just focus on how do we make the practitioners successful with each of these things and really go deep on all of them. And so, with things like Terraform, we've been partnering with all the various cloud providers, right, to say how do we have first class support for Azure, and Google Cloud and Amazon and make sure that you know, as you're adopting these clouds, Terraform meet you there. And then with things like Vault it's how do we integrate with every platform companies want to be on. So if you're using Kubernetes, how do we make sure Vault meets you there and integrates? So, for us that's been the focus, is staying sort of focused on the six core tools, and saying, "How do we make sure "they're staying up to date as technology moves?" And sort of deepening them. >> Yeah, because your users are going to be leveraging a lot of the new stuff. They're going to be, Kubernetes has certainly been great. What's your take on Kubernetes, if you can just take a minute to just, I mean, not new to this notion of runtime and orchestration. We talked about it with Mitchell in our session years ago, we didn't actually say Kubernetes, it wasn't around then, but we talked about the middleware of the cloud. That was our discussion, and that was essentially called Pass at that time, but now, no one talks about Pass any more, it's all kind of one. >> Right, right. >> What's your take on Kubernetes? How do you feel about it? What is it to you? >> Right, yeah, I think that's, so I think, twofold: I think what's exciting for me about it is, it reminds me in some sense like what Docker did for the industry, which, if we went to sort of the pre-Docker world nobody talked about immutable artifact based deploys. It was like this esoteric thing and then all of a sudden over night Docker made it popular. Whereas like, oh yeah, of course everything should be immutable and artifact based. And then when you look at what Kubernetes has done, it's built on that momentum to say, okay, that was step one. Step two is to say, you really should think about all your machines as a sort of shared pool of resources and move the abstraction up to the application to the service and think about, I'm deploying a service, I'm not deploying a set of VMs. And so it's been this sort of tidal shift in how IT thinks about deploying and delivering in application. It actually should be focused on the service. Focus on sort of abstracting away the machine, and that's super exciting. >> And what do you think the benefits will be with the impact of the marketplace? Faster development, I mean, what's some of the impact that you see coming out of this to go to the next level? >> Yeah, I mean the impact for me is really saying, when we really look at these approaches, in some sense they are not new, if you look at what Google's been doing since the early 2000s with Board, what Amazon's been doing, what Facebook's been doing internally. These big tech companies have showed if you are able to move up the abstraction and provide this higher level of utility to developers, you can support tens of thousands of services, innovate much more quickly, and for a while, that was sort of trapped in these big tech companies. And I think what Kubernetes is really doing is bringing that to everybody else and saying, actually adopting the same strategy lets you have that, right? >> Yeah, its a maturation of open source of this generation. You look at what Lyft, Uber are doing. Look at the Open Tracing for instance, pretty interesting stuff, because I mean they had to build their own stuff. >> Armon: Right. >> At scale, massive scale. Not like, you know, hundreds of thousands of services, millions of transactions a second. >> Armon: Right. >> I mean, that's daunting. >> That's daunting. >> Okay, so your take on open source. Okay, because now we're seeing a new generation of developers coming online. I've been saying it's been, a renaissance is coming. More of an artisan, a craft coming back to craftsmanship of coding. Not like UX Design side, become a craft in code. So you got a new, younger generation coming up. They don't even know what a load balancer is. >> Right. But they're happy not to deal with that as you said. And then you've got open source growing exponentially. Jim Zemlin at the Linux Foundation is saying 10% of the IP is going to be unique to the company. The rest is going to be that sandwich of open source. That's exponential growth. >> Right. >> You get exponential growth, new wave of software developers. You're a young gun, what's your view of the future? >> I mean, its funny, because it's like that first derivative is going exponential. The second derivative is going exponential. You know, I think we're going to see more and more innovation at the, ultimately what it's really about is delivering at the end application layer, right? Like, we're all here to be plumbing, right, and so the better we can be at being plumbing, the better the application developers can be at delivering innovation there. And so, I totally agree that the trend is going to go 90/10. And I think that was partly one of the reasons we started HashiCorp, because we'd look around and we're like it's insane that you have 30 to 50% of these companies doing platform engineering that's completely undifferentiated from anyone else. It's like you're deploying on the same vSphere VM as your competitor but you're rebuilding the whole platform. It's crazy, it's like you should have used an open source tool and focused on the application and not how to boot a vSphere into it. >> And the impact cost and time. >> Armon, one of the things we talk about, the only thing constant in this industry is that the pace of change keeps increasing. How are you dealing internally? How are customers doing? I think back two years, a year and a half ago I talked to a guy who was like, "Oh, Vagrant is like my favorite thing, "I've been using it ever." Now I talk to lots of customers that are, Vault is critical to their stacks that they're doing. HashiCorp looks very different than they did two years ago. How's that pace of change happening internally and with customers? >> Totally, and I think part of what we've done as actually since 2015 we haven't really introduced brand new products because our feeling is that it's becoming so confusing for the end users to really navigate this landscape. So, in 2015 we thought the landscape was confusing. Today it's multiplied by 100 or 1,000. >> We were at Amazon last week, we understand. >> Yeah, exactly. And I think honestly I think that is, when you look around here I think that's one of the challenges we're facing as an industry, is I go and meet with customers who are like, "Every time I refresh Hacker News, "there's 50 new things I need to go evaluate." It's like I don't know where to even begin. And its like, as a vendor I have a hard time keeping up with space, you know. I empathize with the end user who, it's not their full time job to do that. So, our goal has been to say how do we better distill at least the HashiCorp universe in terms of hey, here's how our pieces fit together and here's how we relate to everything else in the ecosystem, and kind of give our end users a map of okay, what tools play nice, how do these things sort of work together. But I think as a bigger industry we have a bit of an issue around the sheer amount of sort of innovation. How do we curate that and really make it more accessible? >> Armon, I've got to ask you a personal question. Obviously you guys are entrepreneurs doing a great job. Been following you guys, congratulations by the way. What are you most proud of as you look back and what do you wish you could do over? If you could get a mulligan and say "Okay, I want to do that differently." >> How much time do we have by the way? (laughing) >> 10 seconds, I'm going to ask you the parachute question next, go ahead. >> You know, I think the thing we're most proud of might be Terraform. I think it's fun to see sort of the level of ubiquity and the standardization that is taking place around it. Ah, the thing I wish we could take back is you know, probably our Otto project. I think the scope was so big for that thing and I think our eyes were probably a little wider than they should have been on that one. So I wish we had not committed to that one. >> You reign it in, catch the mistakes early. Okay, final question for you. You're a large customer and the plane is going down, you have 10 seconds to pick a parachute. Amazon, Azure or Google. Which one do you grab? >> Ooh. >> Go. >> You know, probably Amazon. No one ever gets fired for choosing Amazon. >> All right well Jeff Frick on our CUBE team said, "I'd take all three and call it Multi Cloud." >> That's the right answer. Armon, thanks for coming on appreciate it. Congratulations on your success at HashiCorp. >> My pleasure, thanks so much for having me. >> Got HashiCorp here on theCUBE, CTO and co-founder on theCUBE, Riding The Wave, CloudNative, Kupernetes, lot of great stuff happening. Microservices and containers. It's theCUBE doing our part here at KubeCon. We'll be right back with more live coverage after this short break.

>> Narrator: Live from Midtown Manhattan, it's theCUBE, covering BigData New York City 2017 Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem sponsors. >> Hey, welcome back everyone, live in New York, it's theCUBE coverage, day three of three days of wall-to-wall coverage of BigData at NYC, in conjunction with Strata Data right around the corner, separate event than ours, we've been covering. It's our eighth year. We're here expanding on our segment we just had with Matt from Deli EMC on, really on the front lines consultant, we've got Jason from BlueData, and Casey from BlueTalon, two separate companies but the blue in the name, team blue. And of course, Matt from Dell EMC, guys, welcome back to theCUBE and let's talk about the partnerships. I know you guys have a partnership, Dell EMC leads the front lines mostly with the customer base you guys come in with the secret sauce to help that solution which I want to get to in a minute, but the big theme here this week is partnerships. And before we get into the relationship that you guys have, I want you to talk about the changes in the ecosystem, because we're seeing a couple key things. Open source, one, and it's winning, continues to grow, but the Linux Foundation pointed out the open source that we cover that exponential growth is going to be in open-source software. You can see from 4 lines of code to billions in the next 10 years. So more onboarding, so clear development path. Ecosystems have work. Now they're coming into the enterprise with suppliers, whether it's consulting, it's front-end, or full stack developers coming together. How do you see ecosystems playing in both the supplier side and also the customer side? >> So we see from the supplier side, right, and from the customer side as well, and it kind of drives both of those conversations together is that you had the early days of I don't want vendor lock-in, right, I want to have a disparate virtual cornucopia of tools in the marketplace, and then they were, each individual shop was trying to develop those and implement those on their own. And what you're now seeing is that companies still want that diversity in the tools that they utilize, and that they work with, but they don't want that, the complication of having to deliver all those tools themselves, and so they're looking more for partners that can actually bring an ecosystem to the table where it's a loose coupling of events, but that one person actually has the forefront, has the customer's best interest in mind, and actually being able to drive through those pieces. And that's what we see from a partnership, why we're driving towards partnerships, 'cause we can be a point solution, we can solve a lot of pieces, but by bringing us as a part of an ecosystem and with a partner that can actually help deliver the customer and business value to the customer, that's where we're starting to see the traction and the movement and the wins for us as an organization. >> BlueData, you guys have had very big successes, big data as a service, docker containers, this is the programmer's nirvana. Infrastructure plus code, that's the DevOps ethos going mainstream. Your thoughts on partnering, 'cause you can't do it alone. >> Yeah, I mean, for us, speaking of DevOps, and we see our software platform provides a solution for bringing a DevOps approach to data science and big data analytics. And it's much more streamlined approached, an elastic and agile approach to big data analytics and data science, but to your point, we're partnered with Dell EMC because they bring together an entire solution that delivers an elastic platform for secure multi-tenant environments for data science teams and analytics teams for a variety of different open source tool sets. So there is a large ecosystem of open source tools out there from Hadoop to Spark to Kafka to a variety of different data science, machine learning and deep learning tool sets out there, and we provide through our platform the ability to dockerize all of those environments, make them available through self-service to the data science community so they can get up and running quickly and start building their models and running their algorithms. And for us, it's on any infrastructure. So, we work closely with Dell EMC to run it on Isilon and their infrastructure, Dell-powered servers, but also you can run it in a hybrid cloud architecture. So you could run it on Azure and now GCP, and AWS. >> So this is the agility piece for the developer. They get a lot of agility, they get their security. Dell EMC has all the infrastructure side, so you got to partner together. Matt, pull this together. The customer doesn't want, they want a single pane of glass, or however you want to look at it, they don't want to deal with the nuances. You guys got to bring it all together. They want it to work. Now the theme I hear at BigData New York is integration is everything, right, so, if it doesn't integrate, the plumbings not working. How important is it for the customer to have this smooth, seamless experience? >> It's critical for them to, they have to be able to believe that it's going to be a seamless experience, and these are just two partners in the ecosystem. When we talk to enterprise customers, they have other vendors. They have half a dozen or a dozen other vendors solving big data problems, right? The Hadoop analytic tools, on and on and on. And when they choose a partner like us, they want to see that we are bringing other partners to the table that are going to complement or enhance capabilities that they have, but they want to see two key things. And we need to see the same things as well when we look at our partnerships. We want to see APIs, we want to see open APIs that are well-documented so that we know these tools can play with each other, and two, these have to be organizations we can work with. At the end of the day, a customer does business with Dell EMC because they know we're going to stand behind whatever we put in front of them. >> John: They get a track record too, you're pretty solid. >> Yep, it is-- >> But I want to push on the ecosystem, not you guys, it's critical, but I mean one thing that I've seen over my 30 years in the enterprise is ecosystems, you see bullshit and you see real deal, right, so. A lot of customers are scared, now with all this FUD and new technology, it's hard to squint through what the BS is in an ecosystem. So how do you do ecosystems right in this new market? 'Cause like you said, it's not API, that's kind of technical, but philosophy-wise you can't do the barney deals, you got Pat Gelsinger standing up on stage at VMworld, basically flew down to stand in front of all the customers of VMworld's customers and said, we're not doing a barney deal. Now, he didn't say barney deals, that's our old term. He said, it's not an optical deal we're doing with VMware. We got your back. He didn't say that, but that's my interpretation, that's what he basically said. The CEO of AWS said that. That's a partner, you know what I'm saying? So, some deals are okay we got a deal on paper, what's the difference, how do you run an ecosystem, in your opinion? >> Yeah, it's not trivial. It's not an easy thing. It takes an executive, at that level, it takes a couple of executives coming together-- >> John: From the top, obviously. >> Committing, it's not just money, it's reputation, right? If you're at that level, it's about reputation which then trickles down to the company's reputation, and so within the ecosystem, we want to sort of crawl, walk, run. Let's do some projects-- >> So you're saying reputation in communities is the number one thing. >> I think so, people are not going to go, so you will always have the bleeding edge. Someone's going to go play with a tool, they're going to see if it works-- >> Wow, reputation's everything. >> Yeah. If it fails, they're going to tell, what is the saying, if something fails, if something bad happens you tell twelve people-- >> All right, so give them a compliment. What's BlueTalon do great for you guys? Explain their talent in the ecosystem. >> So BlueTalon's talent in the ecosystem, other than being just great people, we love Carey, is that they-- >> I'll get you to say something bad about him soon, but give him the compliment first. >> They have simplified the complexity of doing security, policy and role-based security for big data. So regardless of where your data lives, regardless of if it's Hadoop, Spark, Flink, Mongo, AWS, you define a policy once. And so if I am in front of the chief governance officer, my infrastructure doesn't have a value problem to them, but theirs does, right? The legal team, when we have to do proposals, this is what gets us through the legal and compliance for GDPR in this, it's that centralized control that is so critical to the capability we provide for big data. If you sprawl your data everywhere, and we know data sprawls everywhere-- >> So you can rely on them, these guys. >> Absolutely. >> All right, BlueData, give them a compliment, where do they fit? >> So they have solved the problem of deploying containers, big data environments, in any cloud. And the notion of ephemeral clusters for big data workloads is actually really, really hard to solve. We've seen a lot of organizations attempt to do this, we see frameworks out there, like Kupernetes, that people are trying to build on. These guys have fixed it. We have gone through the most rigorous security audits at the biggest banks in the world, and they have signed off because of the network segmentation and the data segmentation, it just works. >> I think I'm running a presidential debate, now you got to say something nice about him. No, I mean, Dell EMC we know what these guys do. But for you guys, I mean, how big is BlueTalon, company-wise? I mean, you guys are not small but you're not massive either. >> We're not small, but we're not massive, right. So, we're probably around 40 resources global, and so from our perspective, we're-- >> John: That's a great deal, working with a big gorilla in Dell EMC, they got a lot of market share, big muscle? >> Exactly, and so for us, like we talked about earlier, right, the big thing for us is ecosystem functions. We do what we do really well, right, we build software that does control unified access across multiple platforms as well as multiple distributions whether it be private cloud, on-prem, or public cloud, and for us, again, it's great that we have the software, it's great that we can do those things, but if we can't actually help customers use that software to deliver value, it's useless. >> Do you guys go to the market together, do you just hold hands in front of the customer, bundle products? >> No, we go to market together, so we actually, we work, a lot of our team in enablement is not enabling our customers, it is enabling Dell EMC on the use of our software and how to do that. So we actually work with Dell EMC to train and work-- >> So you're a tight partner. There's certification involved, close relationships, you're not mailing it in. >> And then we're also involved with the customer side as well, so it's not like we go, okay great, now it's sold, we throw up our hands and walk away. >> John: Well, they're counting on you that. >> They're counting on us for the specific pieces, but we're also working with Dell EMC so that we can get that breadth right in their reach, so that they can actually go confidently to their customers and actually understand where we fit and when we don't fit. Because we're not everything to everybody, right, and so they have to understand those pieces to be able to know when that works right and how the best practices are. And so again, we're 40 people, they're, I forget, there were 80,000 at one point? Maybe even more than that? But even in the services arm, there's several thousands of people in the-- >> What's the whole point of ecosystems you're getting at here? Point at the critical thing. You've got a big piece of the puzzle, it's not just they're bundling you in. You're an active part of that, and it's an integration world right, so he needs to rely on you to integrate with his systems. >> Yeah, we have to integrate with the other parts of the ecosystem too, so it really is a three-way integration on this perspective where they do what they do really well, we do what we do and they're complementary to each other, but without the services and the glue from Dell EMC-- >> So when you bring Dell EMC into the deals too? >> We do, so we bring Dell EMC into deals, and Dell EMC sells us through a reseller agreement with them so we actually help jointly either bring them to a deal we've already found, we'll bring services to them, or we'll actually go out and do joint development of customers. So we actually come out and help with the sales process and cycles to actually understand is there a fit or is there not a fit? So, it's not a one-size-fits-all, it's not just a, yes we got something on paper that we can sell you and we'll sell you every once in a while, it really is a way to develop an ecosystem to deliver value to the customer. >> All right, so let's talk about the customer mindset real quick. When you, are they, how far along on them, I really don't know much 'cause I'm really starting to probe in this area, how savvy are they to the partnership levels? I mean, you disclose it, you're transparent about it, but I mean, are customers getting that the partnering is very key? I mean, are they drilling, asking tough questions, are you kind of getting them educated one way, are they savvy about it? They may have been doing partners in house, but remember the enterprise had a generation of down-to-the-bone cutting, outsource everything, consolidation, and then you know, go back around 2010, the uplift on reinvestment hit, so we're kind of in this renaissance right now. So, thoughts? >> The partnership is actually the secret sauce that's part of our sales cycle. When we talk about big data outcomes and enabling self-service, customers assume oh, okay, you guys built some software, you've got some hardware, and then when we double-click into how we make this capable, we say oh, well we partner with BlueTalon and BlueData, and this other, and they go, wait a minute, that's not your software? No, no, we didn't build that. We have scoured the market and we've found partners that we work with and we trust, and all of a sudden you can see their shoulders relax and they realize that we're not just there to sell them more kit. We're actually there to help them solve their problems. And it is a game changer, because they deal with vendors every day. Software Vendor X, Software Vendor Y, Hardware Vendor Z, and so to have a company that they have good relationships with already bring more capabilities to them, the guard comes down and they say okay, let's talk about how we can make this work. >> All right, so let's get to the meat of the partnership, which I want to get to 'cause I think that's fundamental. Thanks for sharing perspective on the community piece. We're being on it, we've been doing, we're a community brand ourselves. We're not a close guard, we're not about restricting and censoring people at events, that's not what we're about. So you guys know that, so appreciate you commenting on the community there. The Elastic Data Platform you guys are talking about, it's a partnership deal. You provide an EPIC software, you guys providing some great security in there. What is it about, what's the benefit? So it's you're leading them to product, take a minute to explain the product and then the roles. >> Yeah, so the Elastic Data Platform is a capability, a set of capabilities that is meant to help our enterprise customers get to that next level of self-service. Data science as a service, and do that on any cloud with any tools in a security-controlled manner. That's what Elastic Data Platform is. And it's meant to plug in to the customer's existing investments and their existing tools and augment that, and through our services arm, we tie these technologies together using their open APIs, that's why that's so critical for us, and we bring that value back to our customers. >> And you guys are providing the EPIC software? What is EPIC software? I mean, I love epic software, that's an epic, I hope it's not an epic fail, so an epic name, but epic-- >> Elastic Private Instant Clusters, it's actually an acronym for what it stands for, that is what it provides for our customers. >> John: So you're saying that EPIC stands for-- >> Elastic Private Instant Clusters. So it can run in a private cloud environment on your on-prem infrastructure, but as I said before, it can run in a hybrid architecture on the public cloud as well. But yeah, I mean, we're working closely with the Dell EMC team, they're an investor, we work closely with their services organization, with their server organization, the storage organization, but they really are the glue that brings it all together. From services to software to hardware, and provides the complete solution to the customers. So, as I think Matt-- >> John: Multi-tenancy is a huge deal, multi-tenancy's a huge deal. >> Absolutely, yeah. Also the ability to have logical isolation between each of those different tenants for different data science teams, different analyst teams, you know, that's particularly at large financial services organizations like Barclays, you spoke yesterday, Matt alluded to earlier. They talked about the need to support a variety of different business units who each have their own unique use cases, whether it's batch processing with Hadoop or real-time streaming and fast data with Spark, Kafka, and NoSQL Database, or whether it's deep learning, machine learning. Each of those different tenants has different needs, and so you can spin up containers using our solution for each of those tenants. >> John: Yeah, that's been a big theme this week too, and so many little things, this one relates to this one, is the elastic nature of how people want to manage the provisioning of more resource. So, here's what we see. They're using collective intelligence, data, hey, they're data science guys, they figured it out! Whatever the usage is, they can do a virtual layer if you will, and then based upon the use they can then double down. So let the users drive this real collaborative, that seems to the a big theme, so this helps there. The other theme has been the centralized, this is the GDPR hanging over one's head, but the, even though that's more of threat and it's a gun to the head, it's the hammer or the guillotine, however you look at it, there's more of enablement around centralization, so it's not just the threat of that, it's other things that are benefiting. >> Right, it's more than just the threat of the GDPR and being compliant with those perspectives, right? The other big portion of this is, if you want to do, you do want to provide self-service. So the key to self-service is that's great, I can create an environment, but if it takes me a long time to get data to that environment to actually be able to utilize it or protect the data that's in that environment by having to rewrite policies from a different place, then you don't get the benefit right, the acceleration of the self-service. So having centralized policies of distributed enforcements gives you that elastic ability, right? Again, we can deploy the central engines again on-premises, but you can protect data that's in the cloud or protect data that's in a private cloud, so as companies move data for their different workloads, we can put the same protections with them and it goes immediately with them, so you don't have to manage it in multiple places. It's not like, oh, did I remember to put that rule over in this system? Oh, no I didn't, oh and guess what just happened to me? You know, I did get smacked with a big fine because I didn't, I wasn't compliant. So compliance-- >> How about Audit, too? I mean, are you checking the Audit side too? >> Yeah, so Audit's a great portion of that, and we do Audit for a couple of reasons. One is to make sure that you are compliant, but two is to make sure you actually have the right policies defined. Are people accessing the data the way you expect them to access that data? So that's another big portion of us and what we do from an audit perspective is that data usage lineage, and we actually tell you what the customer, what the user was trying to do. So if a customer's trying to access the data you see a large group trying to access a certain set of data but they're being denied access to it, now you can look and say, is that truly correct? Do I want them not being-- >> John: Well, Equifax, that thing was being phished out over months and months and months. Not just four, that thing has been phished over 10 times. In fact, state-sponsored actors were franchises of that organization. So, they were in the VPN, so it's not even, so you, so this is where the issues, okay, let's just say that happened again. You would have flagged it. >> We flag it. >> You would have seen the pattern access and said, okay, a lot of people cleaning us out. >> Yep, while it's happening. Right, so you get to see that usage, the lineage of the usage of the data, right, so you get to see that pattern as well. Not only who's trying to access, all right, 'cause protecting the perimeter is, as we all know, is no longer viable. So we actually get to watch the usage of the, the usage pattern so you can detect an anomaly in that type of system, as well as you can quickly change policies to shut down that gap, and then watch to see what happens, see who's continuing to try to hit it. >> Well, it's been a great conversation. Love that you guys are on and great to see the Elastic Data Platform come together through the partnerships, again. As you know, we're really passionate about highlighting and understanding more about the community dynamic as it becomes more than just socialization, it's a business model to the enterprise, as it was in open source. We'll be covering that. So I'd like to go around the panel here just to end this segment. Share something that someone might not know what's going on in industry that you want to point out, that's an observation, an anecdote that hasn't been covered, hasn't been serviced, it could be a haymaker, it could be something anecdotal, personal observation. In the big data world, BigData NYC this week or beyond, what should people know about that may or may not be covered out there that's happened that they should know about? >> Well, I think this one's, people pretty much should know about this one, right, but four or five years ago Hadoop was going to replace everything in the world. And two, three years ago the RDBMS's groups were like, Hadoop will never make it out of the science fair project. Right, we're in a world now where that's no longer true. It's somewhere in between. Hadoop is going to remain, and they're going to be continued, and the RDBMS is also going to continue. So you need to look at ecosystems that can actually allow you to cover both sides of that coin, which we're talking about here, is those types of tools are going to continue together forward. So you have to look at your entire ecosystem and move away from siloed functions to how you actually look at an entire data protection in data usage on environment. >> Matt? >> I would say that the technology adoption in the enterprise is outstripping the organization's ability to keep up with it. So as we deploy new technologies, tools, and techniques to do all sorts of really amazing things, we see the organization lagging in its ability to keep up. And so policies and procedures, operating models, whatever you want to call that, put it under the data governance umbrella, I suppose. If those don't keep up, you're going to end up with just an organization that is mismatched with the technology that is put into place, and ultimately you can end up in a massive compliance problem. Now, that's worst case. But even in best case, you're going to have a really inefficient use of your resources. My favorite question to ask organizations, so let's say you could put a timer on one of the data science sandboxes. So what happens when the timer goes off and the data science is not done? And you've got a line of people waiting for resources, what do you do? What is, how does the organization respond to that? It's a really simple question, but the answer's going to be very nuanced. So if that's the policy, that's the operating model stuff that we're talking about that we've got to think about when we enable self-service and self-security, those things have to come hand-in-hand. >> That's the operational thinking that needs to come through. >> Okay, Jason? >> Yeah, I think even for us, I mean this has been happening for some time now, but I think there still is this notion that the traditional way to deploy Hadoop and other big data workloads on prem is bare metal, and that's the way it's always been done. Or, you can run it in the cloud. But I think what we're seeing now, what we've seen evolve over the past couple of years is you can run your on-prem workloads using docker containers in a containerized environment. You can have this cloud-like experience on-prem but you can also provide the ability to be able to move those workloads, whether they're on-prem or in the cloud. So you can have this hybrid approach and multi-cloud approach. So I think that's fundamentally changing, it's a new dynamic, a new paradigm for big data, either on-prem or in the cloud. It doesn't have to be on bare metal anymore. And we get the same, we've been able to get-- >> It's on-prem, people want on-prem, that's where the action is, and cloud no doubt, but right now it's the transition. Hybrid cloud's definitely going to be there. I guess my observation is the tool shed problem. You know, I said earlier all day, you don't want to have a tool shed full of tools you don't use anymore or buy a hammer that wants to turn into a lawn mower 'cause the vendor changed, pivoted. You got to be careful what you buy, the tools, so don't think like a tool. Think like a platform. And I think having a platform mentality, understanding the system, or operating environment as you were getting to, I think really is a fundamental exercise that most decision makers think about. 'Cause again, your relationship with the Elastic Data Platform proves that this operating environment's evolving, it's not about the tool. The tool has to be enabled, and if the tool is enabled into the platform it should have a data model that falls into place, no one should have to think about it, you get the compliance, you get the docker container, so don't buy too many tools. If you do, make sure they're clean and in a clean tool shed! You got a lawnmower, I guess that's the platform. Bad analogy, but you know, I think tools has been the rage in this market, and now I think platforming it is something that we're seeing more of. So guys, thanks so much, appreciate it. Elastic Data Platform by Dell EMC, with the EPIC Platform from BlueData, and BlueTalon providing the data governance and compliance, great stuff, I'm certain the GDPR, BlueTalon, you guys got a bright future, congratulations. All right, more CUBE coverage after this short break, live from New York, it's theCUBE. 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>> Announcer: Live from Midtown Manhattan, it's theCUBE, covering Big Data, New York City, 2017. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem sponsors. >> Okay, welcome back, everyone. Live in Manhattan, this is theCUBE's coverage of our fifth year doing Big Data, NYC; eighth year covering Hadoop World, which is now evolved into Strata Data which is right around the corner. We're doing that in conjunction with that event. This is, again, where we have the thought leaders, we have the experts, we have the entrepreneurs and CEOs come in, of course. The who's who in tech. And my next two guests, is Jagane Sundar, CUBE alumni, who was on yesterday. CTO of WANdisco, one of the hottest companies, most valuable companies in the space for their unique IP, and not a lot of people know what they're doing. So congratulations on that. But you're here with one of your partners, a company I've heard of, called Microsoft, also doing extremely well with Azure Cloud. We've got Pranav Rastogi, who's the program manager of Microsoft Cloud Azure. You guys have an event going on as well at Microsoft Ignite which has been creating a lot of buzz this year again. As usual, they have a good show, but this year the Cloud certainly has taken front and center. Welcome to theCUBE, and good to see you again. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Alright, so talk about the partnership. You guys, Jagane deals with all the Cloud guys. You're here with Microsoft. What's going on with Microsoft? Obviously they've been, if you look at the stock price. From 20-something to a complete changeover of the leadership of Satya Nadella. The company has mobilized. The Cloud has got traction, putting a dent in the universe. Certainly, Amazon feels a little bit of pain there. But, in general, a lot more work to do. What are you guys doing together? Share the relationship. >> So, we just announced a product that's a one-click deployment in the Microsoft Azure Cloud, off WANdisco's Fusion Replication technology. So, if you got some data assets, Hadoop or Cloud object stores on-premise and you want to create a hybrid or a Cloud environment with Azure and Picture, ours is the only way of doing Active/Active. >> Active/Active. And there is some stuff out there that's looking like Active/Active. DataPlane by Hortonworks. But it's fully not Active/Active. We talked a little bit about that yesterday. >> Jagane: Yes. >> Microsoft, you guys, what's interesting about these guys besides the Active/Active? It's a unique thing. It's an ingredient for you guys. >> Yes, the interesting thing for us is, the biggest problem that we think customers have for big data perspective is, if you look at the landscape of the ecosystem in terms of open source projects that are available it's very hard to a: figure out How do I use this software?, b: How do I install it? And, so what we have done is created an experience in Azure HDInsight where you can discover these applications, within the context of your cluster and you can install these applications by one-click install. Which installs the application, configures it, and then you're good to go. We think that this is going to sort of increase the productivity of users trying to get sense out of big data. The key challenges we think customers have today is setting up some sort of hybrid environment between how do you connect your on premise data to move it to the Cloud, and there are different use cases that you can have you can move parts of the data and you can do experiment easily in the Cloud. So what we've done is, we've enabled WANdisco as an application on our HDInsight application platform, where customers can install it using a single-click deploy connected with the data that's sitting on-prem, use the Active/Active feature to have both these environments running simultaneously and they're in sync. >> So one benefits the one-click thing, that's on your side, right? You guys are enabling that. So, okay, I get that. That's totally cool. We'll get to that in a second. I want to kind of drill down on that. But, what's the benefit to the customers, that you guys are having? So, I'm a customer, I one-click, I want some WANdisco Active/Active. Why am I doing it? What does the Cloud change? How does your Cloud change from that experience? >> One example that you can think about is going to change is in an on-premise environment you have a cluster running, but you're kind of limited on what you can do with the cluster, because you've already setup the number of nodes and the workloads your running is fairly finite, but what's happening in reality and today is, lots of users, especially in the machine learning space, and AI space, and the analytic space are using a lot of open source libraries and technologies and they're using it on top of Hadoop, and they're using it on top of Spark. However, in experimenting with these technologies is hard on-prem because it's a locked environment. So we believe, with the Cloud, especially with it offering WANdisco and HDInsight, once you move the data you can start spinning up clusters, you can start installing more open source libraries, experiment, and you can shut down the clusters when you're done. So it's going to increase your efficiency, it's going to allow you to experiment faster, and it's going to reduce for cost as well, because you don't have to have the cluster running all the time and once you are done with your experimentation, then you can decide which way do you want to go. So, it's going to remove the-- >> Jagane, what's your experience with Azure? A lot of people have been, some people have been critical, and rightfully so. You guys are moving as fast you can. You can only go as fast you can, but the success of the Cloud has been phenomenal. You guys have done a great job with the Cloud. Got to give you props on that. Your customers are benefiting, or Microsoft's customers are benefiting. How's the relationship? Are you getting more customers through these guys? Are you bringing customers from on-prem to Cloud? How's the customer flow going? >> Almost all of our customers who have on-prem instances of Hadoop are considering Cloud in one form or the other. Different Clouds have different strengths, as they've found-- >> Interviewer: And different technologies. >> Indeed. And Azure's strengths appear to be the HDInsight piece of it and as Pranam just mentioned, the cool thing is, you can replicate into the Cloud, start up a 50 node Spark cluster today to run a query, that may return results to you really fast. Now, remember this is data that you can write to both in the Cloud and on-premise. It's kept consistent by our technology, or tomorrow you may find that somebody tells you, Hive with the new Tez enhancements is faster, sure, spin up a hundred node Hive cluster in the Cloud, HDInsight supports that really well. You're getting consistent data and your queries will respond much faster than your on-premise. >> We've had Oliver Chu on, before with Hortonworks obviously they're partnering there. HDInsight's been getting a lot of traction lately. Where's that going? We've seen some good buzz on that. Good people talking about it. What's the latest update on your end? >> HDInsight is doing really good. The customers love the ease of creating a cluster using just a few clicks and the benefits that customers get, clusters are optimized for certain scenarios. So if you're doing data science, you can create a Spark cluster, install open source libraries. We have Microsoft R Server running on Spark, which is a unique offering to Microsoft, which lots of customers have appreciated. You also have streaming scenarios that you can do using open source technologies, like we have Apache Kafka running on a stack, which is becoming very popular from an ingestion perspective. Folks have been-- >> Has the Kupernetes craze come down to your group yet? Has it trickled down? It seems to be going crazy. You hired an amazing person from Google, Brendan Burns, we've interviewed before. He's part of the original Kubernetes spec he now works for Microsoft. What's the buzz on the Kubernetes container world there? >> In general, Microsoft Azure has seen great benefits out of it. We are seeing lots of traction in that space. From my role in particular, I focus more on the HDInsight big data space, which is kind of outside of what we do with Kubernetes' work. >> And your relationship is going strong with WANdisco? >> Pranav: Yes. >> Right. >> We just launched this offering just about yesterday is what we announced and we're looking forward to getting customers on to the stack. >> That's awesome. What's your take on the industry right now? Obviously, the partnerships are becoming clearer as people can see there's (mumbles). You're starting to see the notion of infrastructure and services are changing. More and more people want services and then you got the classic infrastructure which looks like it's going to be hybrid. That's pretty clear, we see that. Services versus infrastructure, how should customers think about how they architect their environments? So they can take advantage of the Active/Active and also have a robust, clean, not a lot of re-skilling going on, but more of a good organization from a personnel standpoint, but yet get to a hybrid architecture? >> So, it depends, the Cloud gives you lots of options to meet the customers where they are. Different customers have different kinds of requirements. Customers who have specialized, some of their applications will probably want to go more of an infrastructure route, but customers also love to have some of the past benefits where, you know, I have a service running where I don't have to worry about the infrastructure, how dispatching happen, how does OS updates happen, how does maintenance happen. They want to sort of rely on the Microsoft Azure Cloud provider to take care of it. So that they can focus on their application specific logic, or business specific logic, or analytical workloads, and worry about optimizing those parts of the application because that is their core-- >> It's been great.I want to get your thoughts real quick. Share some color. What's going on inside Microsoft? Obviously, open source has become a really big part of the culture, even just at Ignite. More Linux news is coming. You guys have been involved in Linux. Obviously, open source with Azure, ton of stuff, I know is built in the Microsoft Cloud on open source. You're contributing now as to Kubernetes, as I mentioned earlier. Seems to be a good cultural shift at Microsoft. What's the vibe on the open source internally at Microsoft? Can you share, just some anecdotal insight into what's the vibe like inside, around open source? >> The vibe has increased quite a lot around open source. You rightly mentioned, just recently we've announced a SQL server on Linux as well, at the Ignite conference. You can also deploy a SQL server on a docker container, which is quite revolutionary if you think about how forward we have come. Open source is so pervasive it's almost used in a lot of these projects. Microsoft employees are contributing back to open source projects in terms of, bug fixes, feature requests, or documentation updates. It's a very, very active community and by and large I think customers are benefiting a lot, because there are so many folks working together on open source projects and making them successful and especially around the Azure stack, we also ensure that you can run these open source workloads lively in the Cloud. From an enterprise perspective, you get the best of both worlds. You get the latest innovations happening in open source, plus the reliability of the managed platform that Azure provides at an enterprise scale. >> So again, obviously Microsoft partnership is huge, all the Clouds as well. Where do you want to take the relationship with Microsoft? What happens next? You guys are just going to continue to do business, you're like expecting the one-click's nice, I have some questions on that. What happens next? >> So, I see our partnership becoming deeper. We see the value that HDInsight brings to the ecosystem and all of that value is captured by the data. At the end of the day, if you have stale data, if you have data that you can't rely on the applications are useless. So we see ourselves getting more and more deeply embedded in the system. We see of ourselves as an essential part of the data strategy for Azure. >> Yeah, we see continuous integration as a development concept, continuous analytics as a term, that's being kicked around. We were talking yesterday about, here in theCUBE, real time, I want some data real time and IT goes back, "Here it is, it's real time!" No, but the data's three weeks old. I mean, real time (laughs) is a word that doesn't mean I got to see it really fast, low latency response. Well, that's not the data I want. I meant the data in real time, not you giving me a real time query. So again, this brings up a mind shift in terms of the new way to do business in the Cloud and hybrid. It's changing the game. As customers scratch their heads and try to figure out how to make their organizations more DevOps oriented, what do you guys see for advice for those managers, who are really getting behind it, really want to make change, who kind of have to herd the cats a little bit, and maybe break out security and put it in it's own group? Or you come and say, okay IT guys we're going to change into our operating model, even on-prem, we'll use some burst in to the Cloud, Azure's got 365 on there, lot of coolness developing. What's the advice for the mindset of the change agents out there that are going to do the transformation? >> My advice would be, if you've done the same thing by hand over two times, it's time you automated it, but-- >> Interviewer: Two times?! >> Two times. >> No three rule? Three strikes you're out? >> You're saying two, contrarian. >> That's a careful statement. Because, if you try automating something that you've never actually tried by hand, that's a disaster as well. A couple times, so you know how it's supposed to work. >> Interviewer: Get a good groove on it. >> Right, then you optimize, you automate, and then you turn the knobs. So, you try a hundred node cluster, maybe that's going to be faster. Maybe after a certain point, you don't get any improvements, so you know how to-- >> So take some baby steps, and one easy way to do it is to automate something that you've done. >> Jagane: Yes, exactly. >> That's almost risk-free, relatively speaking. Thoughts, advice to change agents out there. This is your industry hat on. You can take your Microsoft hat off. >> Baby steps. So you start small, you get familiar with the environment and your toolsets are provided so that you get a consistent experience on what you were doing on-prem and sort of in a hybrid space. And the whole idea is as you get more comfortable the benefits of the Cloud far outweigh any sort of cultural changes that need to happen-- >> Guys, thanks for coming on theCUBE, really appreciate it. Thoughts on the Big Data NYC this week? What do you think? >> I think it's a conference that has a lot of Cloud hanging over it and people are scratching their heads. Including vendors, customers, everybody scratching their head, but there is a lot of Cloud in this conference, although this is not a Cloud conference. >> Yeah, they're trying to make it an AI conference. A lot of AI watching certainly we're seeing that everywhere. But again, nothing wrong hyping up AI. It's good for society. It really is cool, but still, that's talking about baby steps, AI is still not there. It seems like, AI from when I got my CS degree in the 80's, not a lot innovation, well machine learning is getting better, but, a lot more way to go on AI. Don't you think? >> Yes, you know a few of the announcements we've made in this week is all about making it easier for developers to get started with AI and machine learning and our whole hope is with these investments that we've done and Azure machine learning improvements and the companion app and the workbench, allows you to get started very easily with AI and machine learning models and you can apply and build these models, do a CICD process and deploy these models and be more effective in the space. >> Yeah and also the tooling market has kind of gotten out of control. We were just joking the other day, that there's this tool shed mindset where everything is in the tool shed and people bought a hammer and turned it into a lawnmower. So it's like, you got to be careful which tools you have. Think about a platform. Think holistically, but if you take the baby steps and implement it, certainly it's there. My personal opinion, I think the Cloud is the equalizer. Cloud can bring compute power that changes what a tool was built for. Even, go back six years, the tools that were out there even six years ago are completely changed by the impact of unlimited, potentially unlimited capacity horsepower. So, okay that resets a little bit. You agree? >> I do. I totally agree. >> Who wins, who loses on the reset? >> The Cloud is an equalizer, but there is a mindset shift that goes with that those who can adapt to the mindset shift, will win. Those who can not and are still clinging to their old practices will have a hard time. >> Yeah, it's exciting. If you're still reinventing Hadoop from 2011 then, probably not good shape right now. >> Jagane: Not a good place to be. >> Using Hadoop is great for Bash, but you can't make that be a lawnmower. That's my opinion. Okay, thanks for coming on. I appreciate it (laughs) You're smiling, you got something that you, no? >> Pranav: (laughs) Thank you so much for that comment. >> Yeah, tool sheds are out there, be careful. Guys do your job. Congratulations on your partnership, appreciate it. This is theCUBE, live in New York. More after this short break. We'll be right back.

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Spark Summit 2017, brought to you by Databricks. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, it's day two at the Spark Summit 2017. I'm David Goad and here with George Gilbert from Wikibon, George. >> George: Good to be here. >> Alright and the guest of honor of course, is Ash Munshi, who is the CEO of Pepperdata. Ash, welcome to the show. >> Thank you very much, thank you. >> Well you have an interesting background, I want you to just tell us real quick here, not give the whole bio, but you got a great background in machine learning, you were an early user of Spark, tell us a little bit about your experience. >> So I'm actually a mathematician originally, a theoretician who worked for IBM Research, and then subsequently Larry Ellison at Oracle, and a number of other places. But most recently I was CTO at Yahoo, and then subsequent to that I did a bunch of startups, that involved different types of machine learning, and also just in general, sort of a lot of big data infrastructure stuff. >> And go back to 2012 with Spark right? You had an interesting development. Right, so 2011, 2012, when Spark was still early, we were actually building a recommendation system, based on user-generated reviews. That was a project that was done with Nando de Freitas, who is now at DeepMind, and Peter Cnudde, who's one of the key guys that runs infrastructure at Yahoo. We started that company, and we were one of the early users of Spark, and what we found was, that we were analyzing all the reviews at Amazon. So Amazon allows you to crawl all of their reviews, and we basically had natural language processing, that would allow us to analyze all those reviews. When we were doing sort of MapReduce stuff, it was taking us a huge number of nodes, and 24 hours to actually go do analysis. And then we had this little project called Spark, out of AMPlab, and we decided spin it up, and see what we could do. It had lots of issues at that time, but we were able to actually spin it up on to, I think it was in the order of 100,000 nodes, and we were able take our times for running our algorithms from you know, sort of tens of hours, down to sort of an hour or two, so it was a significant improvement in performance. And that's when we realized that, you know, this is going to be something that's going to be really important once this set of issues, where it, once it was going to get mature enough to make happen, and I'm glad to see that that it's actually happened now, and it's actually taken over the world. >> Yeah that little project became a big deal, didn't it? >> It became a big deal, and now everybody's taking advantage of the same thing. >> Well bring us to the present here. We'll talk about Pepperdata and what you do, and then George is going to ask a little bit more about some of the solutions that you have. >> Perfect, so Pepperdata was a company founded by two gentlemen, Sean Suchter and Chad Carson. Sean used to run Yahoo Search, and one of the first guys who actually helped develop Hadoop next to Eric14 and that team. And then Chad was one of the first guys who actually figured out how to monetize clicks, and was the data science guy around the whole thing. So those are the two guys that actually started the company. I joined the company last July as CEO, and you know, what we've done recently, is we've sort of expanded our focus of the company to addressing DevOps for big data. And the reason why DevOps for big data is important, is because what's happened in the last few years, is people have gone from experimenting with big data, to taking big data into production, and now they're actually starting to figure out how to actually make it so that it actually runs properly, and scales, and does all the other kinds of things that are there, right? So, it's that transition that's actually happened, so, "Hey, we ran it in production, "and it didn't quite work the way we wanted to, "now we actually have to make it work correctly." That's where we sort of fit in, and that's where DevOps comes in, right? DevOps comes in when you're actually trying to make production systems that are going to perform in the right way. And the reason for DevOps is it shortens the cycle between developers and operators, right? So the tighter the loop, the faster you can get solutions out, because business users are actually wanting that to happen. That's where we're squarely focused, is how do we make that work? How do we make that work correctly for big data? And the difference between, sort of classic DevOps and DevOps for big data, is that you're now dealing with not just, you know, a set of computers solving an isolated sort of problem. You're dealing with thousands of machines that are solving one problem, and the amount of data is significantly larger. So the classical methodologies that you have, while, you know, agile and all that still works, the tools don't work to actually figure out what you can do with DevOps, and that's where we come in. We've got a set of tools that are focused on performance effectively, 'cause that's the big difference between distributed systems performance I should say, that's the big difference between that, and sort of classic even scaled out computing, right? So if you've got web servers, yes performance is important, and you need data for those, but that can actually be sharded nicely. This is one system working on one problem, right? Or a set of systems working on one problem. That's much harder, it's a different set of problems, and we help solve those problems. >> Yeah, and George you look like you're itching to dig into this, feel free. (exclaims loudly) >> Well so, it was, so one of the big announcements at the show, and the sort of the headline announcement today, was Spark server lists, like so it's not just someone running Spark in the cloud sort of as a manage service, it's up there as a, you know, sort of SaaS application. And you could call it platform of the service, but it's basically a service where, you know, the infrastructure is invisible. Now, for all those customers who are running their own clusters, which is pretty much everyone I would imagine at this point, how far can you take them in hiding much of the overhead of running those clusters? And by the overhead I mean, you know, the primarily performance and maximizing, you know, sort of maximizing resource efficiency. >> So, you have to actually sort of double-click on to the kind of resources that we're talking about here, right? So there's the number of nodes that you're going to need to actually do the computation. There is, you know, the amount of disc storage and stuff that you're going to need, what type of CPUs you're going to need. All of that stuff is sort of part of the costing if you will, of running an infrastructure. If somebody hides all that stuff, and makes it so that it's economical, then you know, that's a great thing, right? And if it can actually be made so that it's works for huge installations, and hides it appropriately so I don't pay too much of a tax, that's a wonderful thing to do. But we have, our customers are enterprises, typically Fortune 200 enterprises, and they have both a mixture of cloud-based stuff, where they actually want to control everything about what's going on, and then they have infrastructure internally, which by definition they control everything that's going on, and for them we're very, very applicable. I don't know how we'd applicable in this, sort of new world as a service that grows and shrinks. I can certainly imagine that whoever provides that service would embed us, to be able to use the stuff more efficiently. >> No, you answered my question, which is, for the people who aren't getting the turnkey you know, sort of SaaS solution, and they need help managing, you know, what's a fairly involved stack, they would turn to you? >> Ash: Yes. >> Okay. >> Can I ask you about the specific products? >> George: Oh yes. >> I saw you at the booth, and I saw you were announcing a couple of things. Well what is new-- >> Ash: Correct. >> With the show? >> Correct, so at the show we announced Code Analyzer for Apache Spark, and what that allows people to do, is really understand where performance issues are actually happening in their code. So, one of the wonderful things about Spark, compared to MapReduce, is that it abstracts the paradigm that you actually write against, right? So that's a wonderful thing, 'cause it makes it easier to write code. The problem when we abstract, is what does that abstraction do down in the hardware, and where am I losing performance? And being able to give that information back to the user. So you know, in Spark, you have jobs that can run in parallel. So an apps consists of jobs, jobs can run in parallel, and each one of these things can consume resources, CPU, memory, and you see that through sort of garbage collection, or a disc or a network, and what you want to find out, is which one these parallel tasks was dominating the CPU? Why was it dominating the CPU? Which one actually caused the garbage collector actually go crazy at some point? While the Spark UI provides some of that information, what it doesn't do, is gives you a time series view of what's going on. So it's sort of a blow-by-blow view of what's going on. By imposing the time series view on sort of an enhanced version of the Spark UI, you now have much better visibility about which offending stages are causing the issue. And the nice thing about that is, once you know that, you know exactly which piece of code that you actually want to go and look at. So classic example would be, you might have two stages that are running in parallel. The Spark UI will tell you that it's stage three that's causing the problem, but if you look at the time series, you'll find out that stage two actually runs longer, and that's the one that's pegging the CPU. And you can see that because we have the time series, but you couldn't see that any other way. >> So you have a code analyzer and also the app profiler. >> So the app profiler is the other product that we announced a few months ago. We announced that I guess about three months ago or so. And the app profiler, what it does, is it actually looks after the run is done, it actually looks at all the data that the run produces, so the Spark history server produces, and then it actually goes back and analyzes that and says, "Well you know what? "You're executors here, are not working as efficiently, "these are the executors "that aren't working as efficiently." It might be using too much memory or whatever, and then it allows the developer to basically be able to click on it and say, "Explain to me why that's happening?" And then it gives you a little, you know, a little fix-it if you will. It's like, if this is happening, you probably want to do these things, in order to improve performance. So, what's happening with our customers, is our customers are asking developers to run the application profiler first, before they actually put stuff on production. Because if the application profiler comes back and says, "Everything is green." That there's no critical issues there. Then they're saying, "Okay fine, put it on my cluster, "on the production cluster, "but don't do it ahead of time." The application profiler, to be clear, is actually based on some work that, on open source project called Dr. Elephant, which comes out of LinkedIn. And now we're working very closely together to make sure that we actually can advance the set of heuristics that we have, that will allow developers to understand and diagnose more and more complex problems. >> The Spark community has the best code names ever. Dr. Elephant, I've never heard of that one before. (laughter) >> Well Dr. Elephant, actually, is not just the Spark community, it's actually also part of the MapReduce community, right? >> David: Ah, okay. >> So yeah, I mean remember Hadoop? >> David: Yes. >> The elephant thing, so Dr. Elephant, and you know. >> Well let's talk about where things are going next, George? >> So, you know, one of the things we hear all the time from customers and vendors, is, "How are we going to deal with this new era "of distributed computing?" You know, where we've got the cloud, on-prem, edge, and like so, for the first question, let's leave out the edge and say, you've got your Fortune 200 client, they have, you know, production clusters or even if it's just one on-prem, but they also want to work in the cloud, whether it's for elastics stuff, or just for, they're gathering a lot of data there. How can you help them manage both, you know, environments? >> Right, so I think there's a bunch of times still, before we get into most customers actually facing that problem. What we see today is, that a lot of the Fortune 200, or our customers, I shouldn't say a lot of the Fortune 200, a lot of our customers have significant, you know, deployments internally on-prem. They do experimentation on the cloud, right? The current infrastructure for managing all these, and sort of orchestrating all this stuff, is typically YARN. What we're seeing, is that more than likely they're going to wind up, or at least our intelligence tells us that it's going to wind up being Kubernetes that's actually going to wind up managing that. So, what will happen is-- >> George: Both on-prem and-- >> Well let me get to that, alright? >> George: Okay. >> So, I think YARN will be replaced certainly on-prem with Kupernetes, because then you can do multi data center, and things of that sort. The nice thing about Kupernetes, is it in fact can span the cloud as well. So, Kupernetes as an infrastructure, is certainly capable of being able to both handle a multi data center deployment on-prem, along with whatever actually happens on the cloud. There is infrastructure available to do that. It's very immature, most of the customers aren't anywhere close to being able to do that, and I would say even before Kupernetes gets accepted within the environment, it's probably 18 months, and there's probably another 18 months to two years, before we start facing this hybrid cloud, on-prem kind of problem. So we're a few years out I think. >> So, would, for those of us including our viewers, you know, who know the acronym, and know that it's a, you know, scheduler slash cluster manager, resource manager, would that give you enough of a control plane and knowledge of sort of the resources out there, for you to be able to either instrument or deploy an instrument to all the clusters (mumbles). >> So we are actually leading the effort right now for big data on Kupernetes. So there is a group of, there's a small group working. It's Google, us, Red Hat, Palantir, Bloomberg now has joined the group as well. We are actually today talking about our effort on getting HDFS working on Kupernetes, so we see the writing on the wall. We clearly are positioning ourselves to be a player in that particular space, so we think we'll be ready and able to take that challenge on. >> Ash this is great stuff, we've just got about a minute before the break, so I wanted to ask you just a final question. You've been in the Spark community for a while, so what of their open source tools should we be keeping our eyes out for? >> Kupernetes. >> David: That's the one? >> To me that is the killer that's coming next. >> David: Alright. >> I think that's going to make life, it's going to unify the microservices architecture, plus the sort of multi data center and everything else. I think it's really, really good. Board works, it's been working for a long time. >> David: Alright, and I want to thank you for that little Pepper pen that I got over at your booth, as the coolest-- >> Come and get more. >> Gadget here. >> We also have Pepper sauce. >> Oh, of course. (laughter) Well there sir-- >> It's our sauce. >> There's the hot news from-- >> Ash: There you go. >> Pepperdata Ash Munshi. Thank you so much for being on the show, we appreciate it. >> Ash: My pleasure, thank you very much. >> And thank you for watching theCUBE. We're going to be back with more guests, including Ali Ghodsi, CEO of Databricks, coming up next. (upbeat music) (ocean roaring)

>> Announcer: Live from Santa Clara, California, it's The Cube. Covering open networking summit 2017. Brought to you by the Linux foundation. >> Welcome back. We are live in Santa Clara at the open networking summit 2017. Been coming here for a couple years, it's a lot of open source going on in storage, for a long time, a lot of open source going on in compute for a long time, and you know, networking was kind of the last one, but we had Martin Casado on on earlier today. He says it's 10 years since he started Nicira. And now, it's a billion dollar revenue run raid inside vmware, so I think the software defined networking is pretty real. We're excited for this next segment, Scott Raynovich, been cohosting all day, good to see you again, Scott. But we're kind of shifting, we're going to add to open networking, we're going to add to open, not compute, but OpenStack, I get them all mixed up, we were just-- >> It's all infrastructure, it's all in the family. >> All right, so our next guest here, representing the OpenStack foundation, is Ildiko Vancsa, get that right? She is the ecosystem technical lead for OpenStack, welcome. And Lisa-Marie Namphy, she's now officially the OpenStack ambassador, which if you follow her on Twitter, you would have known that a long time ago. >> For the U.S. There's several others globally, but for the U.S., yeah. >> So first off, welcome. >> Thank you. >> And what is the OpenStack team doing here at open networking summit? >> So OpenStack itself is a multipurpose generated cloud platform, so we are not just looking into enterprise, IT use cases, but also trying to address the telecom and NFV space. And this is the conference where we are finding many of our ecosystem member companies represented, and we are also learning what's new in the networking space, what are the challenges of tomorrow and how we can start to address them today. >> Right, 'cause the telco is a very active space for OpenStack as well, correct, there's been a good market segment for you. >> Yes, it is an emerging area. I would say we have more and more telecommunications company around and they are also more and more involved in open source. Because I think it's kind of clear that they are also using open source for a while now, but using open source and participating in open source, those are two different things. So this kind of mindset change and transition towards participating In these communities and going out to the public field and do software development there and collaborate with each other and the enterprise IT segment as well, this is what is happening today and it is really great to see it. >> Host: Great, great. >> And you've seen more and more telco's participating in the OpenStack summits, there was an NFV day, I think, even going all the way back to the Atlanta summit. And certainly, in Barcelona, Ildiko was actually doing one of the main stage key notes, which was very focused on telco. And some of the main sponsors of this upcoming summit are telco's. So there's definitely a nice energy between telco and OpenStack. >> Now, why do you think the telco is just the one that's kind of getting ahead of the curve in terms of the adoption? >> Scalable low class clouds. (all laugh) >> Right, and we had John Donovan from AT&T said today that they're either rapidly approaching or going to hit, very soon, more than 50% of software defined networking within the AT&T network. So if there's any questions as to whether it's real or still in POC's, I think that pretty much says it's in production and running. >> I'm doing a lot more of that, so I also run the OpenStack user group for the San Francisco bay area and have been for the last three years, and if we're not talking about Kupernetes, or Docker and OpenStack, we're talking about networking. And tonight, actually, we're going to, the open contrail team is talking about some of the stuff they're doing with open contrail and containers and sort of just to piggyback off of this conference. And next week, as well, we're talking about the network functionality in Kupernetes at OpenStack, if you want to run in down to the OpenStack cloud. So it's a huge focus and the user group can't get enough of it. >> and your guys' show is coming up very, very soon. >> The OpenStack summit? >> Yes. >> Oh, absolutely, May 8th through 11th in Boston, Massachusetts. >> Host: Like right around the corner. >> Yeah. >> The incredible moving show, right? It keeps going and going and going. >> Yeah, yeah, there's going to be 6,000 plus people there. There was just some recent press releases about some of the keynotes that are happening there. There's a huge focus on, you know, I keep calling this the year of the user, the year of OpenStack adoption. And we're really, throughout the meetups, we're really doing a lot to try to showcase those use cases. So Google will be one that's onstage talking about some really cool stuff they're doing with OpenStack, some machine learning, just really intelligent stuff they're working on, and that's going to be a great keynote that we're looking forward to. Harvard will be up on there, you know, not just big name foundation members, but a lot of use cases that you'll see presented. >> So why do you think this is the year, what's kind of the breakthrough that it is the year of the user, would you say? >> Well, I think that just the reliability of OpenStack. I think enterprises are getting more comfortable. There are very large clouds running on OpenStack, more in Asia and in Europe and Ildiko can probably talk about it, particularly some of the telco related ones. But you know, the adoption is there and you see more stability around there, more integration with other, I don't know what to call it, emerging technologies like containers, like AI, like IOT. So there's a big push there, but I think enterprises have just, they have adopted it. And there's more expertise out there. We've focused a lot on the administrators. There's the COA, the certified administrator of, you know, OpenStack administrator exam you can take. So the operators have come a long way and they're really helping the customers out there get OpenStack clouds up and running. So I just think, you know, it's seven years now, into it, right, so we got to turn the corner. >> So there have been some growing pains with OpenStack, so what can you tell us about the metrics today versus, say, three or four years ago in terms of total installations, maybe breakdown of telecom versus enterprise, what kind of metrics do you have you there? >> I'll let you take that one. >> We are running, continuously running a user survey and we are seeing growing numbers in the telecom area. I'm not prepared with the numbers from the top of my head, but we are definitely seeing more and more adoption in the telecom space like how you mentioned AT&T, they are one of the largest telecom operators onboard in the community, and they are also very active, showing a pretty great example of how to adopt the software and how to participate in the community to make the software more and more NFV ready and ready for the telecom use cases. We also have, as Lisa-Marie just mentioned, the China area and Asia are coming up as well, like we have China Mobile and China Telecom onboard as well. Or Huawei, so we have telecom operators and telecom vendors as well, around the community. And we are also collaborating with other communities, so like who you see around OPNFV, OpenDaylight, and so forth. We are collaborating with them to see how we can integrate OpenStack into a larger environment as part of the full NFV stack. If you look into the ETSI NFV architectural framework, OpenStack is on the infrastructure layer. The NFV infrastructure and virtual infrastructure manager components are covered with OpenStack services mostly. So you also need to look into, then, how you can run on top of the hardware that the telecom industry is expecting in a data center and how to onboard the virtual network functions on top of that, how to put D management and orchestration components on top of OpenStack, and how the integration works out. So we are collaborating with these communities and what is really exciting about the Upcoming summit is that we are transforming the event a little bit. So this time, it will not be purely OpenStack focused, but it will be more like an open infrastructure, even. We are running open source days, so we will have representation from the communities I mentioned and we will also have Kubernetes onboard, for example, to show how we are collaborating with the representatives of the container technologies. We will also have Cloud Foundry and a few more communities around, so it will be a pretty interesting event and we are just trying to show the big picture that how OpenStack and all these other components of this large ecosystem are operating together. And that is going to be a super cool part of the summit, so the summit is May 8th through 11th and on May 9th, the CNCF, the Linux foundation, actually, behind this, the CNCF day, they're calling it Kupernetes day. And the whole day will be dedicated, there will be a whole track dedicated to Kupernetes, basically. And so they did another call for papers and it's like a little mini conference inside the conference. So that's kind of what I was saying about the adoption of other technologies. I'm sure the OpenStack foundation is putting those numbers together that you asked about and probably Jonathan or Bryce will stand onstage on the first day and talk about them. But what I think is more interesting and what I would encourage people to go, there's a Superuser magazine. Superuser does a great job telling the stories of what's happening out there, and some of these use cases, and who's adopting this technology and what they're doing with it. And those stories are more interesting than just, you know, the numbers. Because you can do anything with numbers and statistics, but these actual user stories are really cool so I encourage readers to go out to Superuser magazine and check that out. >> It's like, Lego uses it. >> There you go. >> I had to check real fast. >> Lot of information on there. They do a good job of that. >> Lego alligators. >> So you talked about this day with the Linux foundation, is there increasing amounts of cooperation between OpenStack and Linux foundation? Given all the projects that seem to be blossoming. >> Yeah, I don't even know that it needed to increase, there's always been nice energy between the two. There is, you know, Eileen Evans, who we know very well, was on the board of both, the first woman on both boards. She was my colleague for many years at Hewlett-Packard. She's still on the Linux foundation board and there's been a lot of synergy between those foundations. They've always worked closely together, especially things like the Cloud Foundry foundation that came out of the Linux foundation has always worked very closely with OpenStack, the OpenStack foundation, and the board members, and it's all one big happy family. We're all open source, yeah. >> And you talked about the enterprises being, you know, they've been using open source for a long time, Linux has been around forever. They're really more adopting kind of an open source ethos in terms of their own contributions back and participating back in. So you see just increased adoption, really, of using the open source vehicle as a way to do better innovation, better product development, and to get involved, get back to their engineers to get involved in something beyond just their day job. >> It is definitely a tendency that is happening, so it's not just AT&T, like, I can mention, for example, NTT DoCoMo, who now has engineers working on OpenStack code. They are a large operator in Japan. And it is really not something, I think, that a few years back, they would've imagined that they will just participate in an open source community. I've been involved with OPNFV for, I think, two years now, or two and a half. I'm an OPNFV ambassador as well, I'm trying to focus on the cross-community collaboration. And OPNFV is an environment where you can find many telecom operators and vendors. And it was a really interesting journey to see them, how they get to know open source more and more and how they learned how this is working and how working in public is like and what the benefits are. And I remember when a few people from, for example, DoCoMo came to OPNFV and they were, like, a little bit more shy, just exploring what's happening. And then like a half year later when they started to do OpenStack contributions, they had code batches merged into OpenStack, they added new functionalities, they kind of became advocates of open source. And they were like telling everywhere that open source is the way to go and this is what everyone should be doing and why it is so great to collaborate with other operators out in the public so you can address the common pain points together, rather than everyone is working on it behind closed doors and trying to invent the same wheel at the same time, separately. >> Right. >> So that was a really, really Interesting journey. And I think more and more companies are following this example. And not just coming and giving feedback, but also more and more participating and doing coding documentation work in the community. >> And I think if I can understand, what I think, also, the question you might have been asking, there wasn't a ton of python developers in the beginning and everybody's like how do we get these OpenStack developers in the company, you know, it was this huge shortage. And Linux was the little hanging fruit, it's like well, why do we just hire some Linux developers and then teach them python, and that's how a lot of OpenStack knowledge came into companies. So that was the trend. And I think enough companies, enough enterprises do see the value of something like OpenStack or Linux or Kupernetes or whatever the project has, Docker, to actually dedicate enough full time employees to be doing just that for as long as it makes sense and then maybe it's another technology. But we saw that for years, right, with OpenStack, huge companies. And there still are. Not always the same companies, depending on what a company needs and where they are, they absolutely find value in contributing back to this community. >> Okay, and you said you got a meetup tonight? >> I do, yeah. >> Give a plug for the meetup. >> Juniper, it's open contrail talking about open contrailing and containers. And it's at Juniper here in Sunnyville, so if you go to meetup.com/openstack, that's our user group. We're the first ones, we got that one. So meetup.com/openstack is the Silicon Valley, San Francisco bay area user group. And then next week, we're talking about networking and Kupernetes. >> All right, it's always good to be above the fold, that's for sure. All right, Ildiko, Lisa-Marie, great to see you again and thanks for stopping by, and we'll see you in Boston, if not before. >> Absolutely, we'll both be quite busy, we have four, both four presentations each, it's going to be a nutty week. So I'm looking forward to seeing you guys in Boston, always a pleasure, thanks for inviting us. >> Absolutely, all right, thanks for stopping by. With Scott Raynovich, I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching The Cube from open networking summit 2017. We'll be back after this short break, thanks for watching.

>> Live from the Julia Morgan Ballroom in San Francisco. Extracting the signal from the noise, it's TheCUBE. Covering Structure 2015. Now your host, George Gilbert. >> This is George Gilbert, we're at Structure 2015. Reborn and really healthy from the old GigaOM, and we're pleased to welcome Alex Polvi from CoreOS, everyone seems to want to talk to Alex these days. So we've got first dibs. Alex why don't you tell us a little bit about CoreOS and why it's of such relevance right now. >> Sure, so we started CoreOS a little over two years ago, about two and a half years ago now. And our mission is to fundamentally improve the security of the internet. And our approach in doing that is to help companies run infrastructure in this way that allows it to be much more serviceable and have much better security and so on. This way that we're modeling looks a lot like what we've seen from the hyperscale companies. Folks like Google. So we often call it Google's Infrastructure For Everyone Else, GIFFY for short 'cause that's kind of a mouthful. And that involves distributed systems, containers, and running on standard hardware which in 2015 can be a bare-metal server, or could be an instance in AWS. >> Okay. So help us understand though that, if CoreOS, it sounds like there's an operating system at the core. >> Yeah. >> Is this like a cut down version of Linux that gives it a small attack surface and a sort of easier deployment and patching? >> Exactly, so in our quest to run the world servers to secure the internet we start at the lowest level component possible. There's the OS, then there's the distributed system side. So CoreOS is our company name, but it's also the name of the first product that we released, CoreOS Linux. CoreOS Linux is a lightweight container-based OS that automatically updates itself, 'cause we think that updates are the key to good security. So it's a combination of the updates, the container weight, the lightweight container-based application model. As well as just stripping everything else out. I mean the last 20 years of Linux distributions have created lots of cruft so it was time to kind of rebirth a new lightweight Linux OS. >> Sticking to CoreOS >> Yeah. >> For a moment, in an earlier era, might we have called this like an embedded OS where you just sort of chopped out everything that was not necessary for the application? >> Yeah, it's very much inspired by embedded OSes. On servers you know, you really want to get everything out of the way of the resources like the memory and CPU and so on so you get as much as you want out of it. So while it's a little bit counterintuitive, you have this really monster server, you still want as light and thin of an OS on there as you possibly can like an embedded OS so you can really maximize the performance. >> So something that abstracts the hardware but gets out of the way. >> Exactly. Just focus, get on the things that matter which is running your applications and managing the actual hardware and really nothing else. >> Okay, so, presumably to provide Google's infrastructure for everyone else, and I don't remember the acronym, >> GIFFY. >> Okay. What other products did you have to fill out to make that possible? >> Sure, great question. So the next major piece that we released is a tool called ETCD. It's meant for doing shared configuration amongst servers. Whenever you have a group of servers, the first thing you need to do is they all need to know about each other, and tell each other about the configuration. This is load balancers knowing where the app servers are, the app servers knowing where the databases are and so on. And to do this in the most robust distributed systems way, you have to do this thing in computer science that's very difficult called "consensus". Consensus algorithms is an area of computing, actually speaking about here in a little bit with Eric Brewer, who is a huge academic, a very well respected engineer in the area of consenus and distributed systems. And so we built ETCD, which solves this really hard distributed systems problem in a way that's usable by many operations teams. >> So let me just interrupt you for a second, >> Yeah. >> I mean I've got this sound going off in my head that says "Zookeeper, Zookeeper". >> Exactly. It's Zookeeper for everyone else. >> It's simplified. >> It's a simplified Zookeeper and make it accessible. Areas that a lot of people wanted to use distributed systems but Zookeeper is a little bit too difficult to use as well as really oriented toward the Java and Hadoop community, and there's a whole wide array of other folks out there. >> So it couldn't make as many constraining assumptions as yours, which would simplify. >> It just couldn't be as widely adopted. And so we released ETCD around the same time we released CoreOS Linux and this point, there's been over a thousand projects if you go on GitHub that have built things around ETCD, so our bet was right. Even things like Kubernetes, itself has a hard dependency on ETCD. Without ETCD, Kupernetes will not run. So our hypothesis there was let's make the hardest part of distributed systems easier, and then we will see distributed systems overall accelerate. And that is definitely what's happened with ETCD. >> Okay so help us understand, how you've built up the rest of the infrastructure and then where you'd like to see it go. >> Sure, so the thing that we're targeting is this distributed systems approach. And again we care about this a lot because we think that the ability to manage and service your applications, is what is the key to the security. Keeping things up to date, and when we mean up to date, we don't just mean like patch a vulnerability. Of which we've fixed many of those. But it's also about company's comfort rolling out a new version of their application that they won't break something. If you run your infrastructure in a distributed system, you can roll out a version, if it breaks a little bit of the application that's okay, but you didn't take the whole thing down. And that's kind of the safety net that distributed systems give you. >> Does this require the sort of micro-service approach where there's a clean separation between this new set of bits and the rest of the app? >> It really does. And that's why we've invested so heavily in containers. It requires a container, it also requires the distributed systems components of it. So we first built CoreOS Linux, then we built ETCD, then we started building some distributed systems work very early in the market. And then things like Kubernetes came along, and we were like, "Hey, instead of us reinventing all of this stuff let's partner up with the guys from the Google" if we're monitoring Google's infrastructure for everyone else, let's partner up with the team at Google that built that and get their solution more widely adopted out in the world as well. So the whole platform comes together as this combination of Kubernetes, ETCD, CoreOS Linux, we have our own container runtime called Rocket, which we built primarily to address some security issues in Docker. And so all of these pieces come together and what we call that piece when they're all together is Tectonic. Tectonic is our product that is that Google's infrastructure in a box. >> Okay let me just drop down in the weed for a sec. Derek Collison calls, I'm sorry I'm having a senior moment. And I hope it's not early onset Alzheimer's. The Docker, he calls sort of this generation's Tarball, you know, like to distribute you know, just a sort of I guess equivalent of an executable. Are you providing something that's compatible or does what's inside the container have to change to take advantage of the additional services that's sort of Google-centric. >> Sure. So the packaging, that Tarball piece, we're compatible with. And will always remain compatible with. To even further the compatibility, we've put together standards around what that container should be so many vendors can inter-operate more widely. We've done that first through the app container project and then more recently through the open container initiative which is a joint effort between Docker and us, and the rest of the ecosystem. And so we always, we always want the user to be able to package their application once and then choose whatever system they want to run it in, and the container is what really unlocks that portability. >> Okay. So then let me ask you, does the Google compute engine folks, or the passgroup, do they view you as a way of priming the pump outside the Google ecosystem to get others using their sort of application model or their infrastructure model? Because I'm trying to understand, you know Azure sort of has its own way of looking at the world, Amazon has its own way of looking at the world, are they looking at you as a way of sort of disseminating an approach to building applications? Or managing applications. >> Sure. So the Google team and their motivations behind Kubernetes, you'd have to talk to them about it. My understanding is that they see that as a way to have a very consistent environment between different cloud providers and so on. It is a next-generation way of running infrastructure as well, and its just better than the previous way of running infrastructure. >> That's sort of the answer I was looking for which is, they don't have to either give away their stuff or manage their infrastructure elsewhere. But you're sort of the channel to deliver Google style infrastructure in other environments. >> Sure, I mean Google Cloud's motivation at the end of the day is selling cores of memory. They put all these other services on top of it to make it, to make it more attractive to use, but the end of the day anything that drives more usage of these products is how they run their business. At least that's my perception of it. I'm obviously not speaking on behalf of Google. >> So where are you in attracting showcase customers? Guys who've sort of said "okay we'll bet", if not the entire business, "we'll bet the success of this application or these set of applications on this". >> Right, so first the technology's been very, very exciting. I mean the past two years we've seen this whole space explode in interest, but the discussion around "how does this solve business problems, how does this actually get adopted to these companies and what motivates them to actually do this" outside of the tech being very cool. That's a discussion that is just getting started and in fact in about two weeks here in early December in New York we're hosting that discussion at an event called the Tectonic Summit. The Tectonic Summit is where we're bringing together all the enterprise early adopters that are using containers, using distributed systems, and talking about why did their management and their leadership decide to make investments in these technologies. And what we're seeing are use cases about multi-data center between your physical data center and your cloud environments. We're seeing folks build their next-generation web services. Many businesses that weren't traditionally in the web services businesses need to be now because of mobile, just modern product offerings. And so we're hearing from these large guys and how they're using our technologies and other companies' technologies today to do this, and it's just two weeks at our event. >> Would it be fair to say, I'm listening to this and what seems to becoming across is that your technology makes it easier to abstract not just the machine, which would be CoreOS, but hybrid infrastructure. And it doesn't even have to be hybrid, it could be this data center and that data center. >> Right. >> Or your own data center and a public cloud. >> Exactly. One of the biggest value props of all this is the consistency between environments. We just give this compute, CPUs, memory, storage, we don't care if it's on cloud or if it's a physical data center, we can allow you to manage that in an extremely consistent way. Not just between your data centers but also between development and production, and that's a really important part of all of this. >> Do you need a point of view built into the infrastructure to make it palatable to developers who want a platform? As opposed to just infrastructure. >> Sure. So one of the things that's most exciting about this space is we're splitting the difference of platform and infrastructure. Platform is typically, platform is a service, this very prescriptive way of running your server infrastructure. And there's raw infrastructure which is a like, "here is a canvas, go to town but you need to bring all your own tools". What's happening right now in this distributed systems container space is a middle category. It's still infrastructure, but it's application focused. And at the end of the day that's what a developer is trying to do, is deploy their application out into the server infrastructure. >> So it doesn't have an opinion that tells the developer "we think you should build it this way", but it does hide all the sort of, the different types of hardware and their location pretty much. >> Right, it gives you a prescriptive way to how you package and deploy that, but doesn't put on any constraints of what you can package or deploy. >> Okay. Very interesting. It's sort of like a, if platform as a service was constraining because developers didn't want a straightjacket for how they should build the app, and infrastructures, our service was too raw. You're giving them a middle ground. >> Exactly. It's still infrastructure, but it's a consistent way of running that infrastructure. And that's why companies like Google and Facebook and Twitter do this, they have millions of servers and data centers all over the world. >> And they can't prescribe. >> Well they need to be able to have a consistent way of doing it so that they don't have to have an infinitely growing operations team as they scale their infrastructure. You need to have consistency, but at the same time you need to be able to have a wide array of tools and things to deploy and interact with that infrastructure. So it's that middle ground, and that's why the hyperscale guys have adopted it because they're forced to, because they have to have that consistency to have that scale. >> Okay let me ask you then, not on the, separate from the hyperscale guys, the sort of newest distributed system that mainstream enterprises are struggling with and sort of off the record, maybe choking on, you know is Hadoop. Because they haven't had to do elastic infrastructure before and like you said the Zookeeper is not that easy, and there's 22 other projects by the way that also have to get stood up. Can you help someone who is perhaps flailing in that or if not flailing, finding the skills overhead really, really tough? >> So, Hadoop. Let's remember Hadoop's roots. Where did that come from? >> Well Yahoo!. >> Well but where did Yahoo! get the idea? >> Oh yeah, Google, sorry. >> Exactly. Yahoo! gets all the credit for it. Even though it was a Google paper that was modeled after. And so again, if Kubernetes and containers and everything is the equivalent of Google's borg, which is that raw application infrastructure, Hadoop is a certain application that consumes the spare resources on that cluster in order to do these map reducing computational jobs. >> So the next question is, how much can you simplify what mainstream enterprises do that don't have the Google infrastructure yet? >> Right, so they have to manage that as its own whole separate thing. It's its own set of infrastructure, it's its own set of servers to manage their Hadoop cluster. If you combine it with this application infrastructure, we just treat Hadoop as another application that runs on the platform. It's not its own distinct, special thing. It's just another application running out there along with your web servers and your databases, and everything else, you have your Hadoop workload in the mix. So you have this consistent pool of infrastructure and Hadoop is just another application that's monitored or managed the exact same way as everything else. >> So, for folks who are a little more familiar with Mesos, which is the opposite of a virtual machine, it makes many machines look like a single one, I assume. >> Well this is a very similar message to Mesos. Mesos is also building Google-like infrastructure for everyone else. The difference with what we're doing is really we just partnered up with the team that built that at Google, and focusing our solution around Kubernetes which is what the Google efforts are behind. So we're all modeling Google's infrastructure. >> Okay. >> Mesos took their own spin on it with Kubernetes, and CoreOS and ETCD, we're taking a different spin on it. >> So and what other products have you built out that we haven't touched on, and what do you see the roadmap looking like? >> Sure, so really, all these things we've talked about are open source projects. They're all components for building this Google-like infrastructure. Tectonic is our platform for companies that want this style of infrastructure but they don't want to have to figure out all the different pieces themselves. And we think once companies adopt Tectonic, just this general style of infrastructure, that we can give them all the benefits of this, better utilization, that consistency, easier management of lots and lots of servers and so on. But we also think we can dramatically improve the security of their infrastructure as well. And that's what we're investing in our roadmap is to leverage this kind of change, and then with that change we can do some things to the infrastructure that was never possible before. >> Okay. >> And that's the things that we're investing in as a company. >> Okay, great. We're going to break at that, this is George Gilbert, at Structure '15, with Alex Polvi of CoreOS. And we'll be back in just a few minutes. (light music)