>>Good evening, brilliant humans. My name is Savannah Peterson and very delighted to be streaming to you. Live from the Cube Studios here in Motor City, Michigan. I've got John Furrier on my left. John, this is our last interview of the day. Energy just seems to keep oozing. How >>You doing? Take two, Three days of coverage, the queue love segments. This one's great cuz we have a practitioner who's implementing all the hard core talks to be awesome. Can't wait to get into it. >>Yeah, I'm very excited for this one. If it's not very clear, we are a community focused community is a huge theme here at the show at Cape Con. And our next guests are actually a provider and a customer. Turning it over to you. Lisa and Jake, welcome to the show. >>Thank you so much for having us. >>It's great to be here. It is our pleasure. Lisa, you're with Cockroach. Just in case the audience isn't familiar, give us a quick little sound bite. >>We're a distributed sequel database. Highly scalable, reliable. The database you can't kill, right? We will survive the apocalypse. So very resilient. Our customers, mostly retail, FinTech game meet online gambling. They, they, they need that resiliency, they need that scalability. So the indestructible database is the elevator pitch >>And the success has been very well documented. Valuation obviously is a scorp guard, but huge customers. We were at the Escape 19. Just for the record, the first ever multi-cloud conference hasn't come back baby. Love it. It'll come back soon. >>Yeah, well we did a similar version of it just a month ago and I was, that was before Cockroach. I was a different company there talking a lot about multi-cloud. So, but I'm, I've been a car a couple of years now and I run community, I run developer relations. I'm still also a CNCF ambassador, so I lead community as well. I still run a really large user group in the San Francisco Bay area. So we've just >>Been in >>Community, take through the use case. Jake's story set us up. >>Well I would like Jake to take him through the use case and Cockroach is a part of it, but what they've built is amazing. And also Jake's history is amazing. So you can start Jake, >>Wherever you take >>Your Yeah, sure. I'm Jake, I'm CEO and co-founder of Offset. Oted is the commercial entity behind Spice Dvy and Spice Dvy is a permission service. Cool. So a permission service is something that lets developers and let's platform teams really unlock the full potential of their applications. So a lot of people get stuck on My R back isn't flexible enough. How do I do these fine grain things? How do I do these complex sharing workflows that my product manager thinks is so important? And so our service enables those platform teams and developers to do those kinds of things. >>What's your, what's your infrastructure? What's your setup look like? What, how are you guys looking like on the back end? >>Sure. Yeah. So we're obviously built on top of Kubernetes as well. One of the reasons that we're here. So we use Kubernetes, we use Kubernetes operators to orchestrate everything. And then we use, use Cockroach TV as our production data store, our production backend data store. >>So I'm curious, cause I love when these little matchmakers come together. You said you've now been presenting on a little bit of a road show, which is very exciting. Lisa, how are you and the team surfacing stories like Jakes, >>Well, I mean any, any place we can obviously all the social medias, all the blogs, How >>Are you finding it though? >>How, how did you Oh, like from our customers? Yeah, we have an open source version so people start to use us a long time before we even sometimes know about them. And then they'll come to us and they'll be like, I love Cockroach, and like, tell me about it. Like, tell me what you build and if it's interesting, you know, we'll we'll try to give it some light. And it's always interesting to me what people do with it because it's an interesting technology. I like what they've done with it. I mean the, the fact that it's globally distributed, right? That was like a really important thing to you. Totally. >>Yeah. We're also long term fans of Cockroach, so we actually all work together out of Workbench, which was a co-working space and investor in New York City. So yeah, we go way back. We knew the founders. I, I'm constantly saying like if I could have invested early in cockroach, that would've been the easiest check I could have ever signed. >>Yeah, that's awesome. And then we've been following that too and you guys are now using them, but folks that are out there looking to have the, the same challenges, what are the big challenges on selecting the database? I mean, as you know, the history of Cockroach and you're originating the story, folks out there might not know and they're also gonna choose a database. What's the, what's the big challenge that they can solve that that kind of comes together? What, what would you describe that? >>Sure. So we're, as I said, we're a permission service and per the data that you store in a permission service is incredibly sensitive. You need it to be around, right? You need it to be available. If the permission service goes down, almost everything else goes down because it's all calling into the permission service. Is this user allowed to do this? Are they allowed to do that? And if we can't answer those questions, then our customer is down, right? So when we're looking at a database, we're looking for reliability, we're looking for durability, disaster recovery, and then permission services are one of the only services that you usually don't shard geographically. So if you look at like AWS's iam, that's a global service, even though the individual things that they run are actually sharded by region. So we also needed a globally distributed database with all of those other properties. So that's what led us >>To, this is a huge topic. So man, we've been talking about all week the cloud is essentially distributed database at this point and it's distributed system. So distributed database is a hot topic, totally not really well reported. A lot of people talking about it, but how would you describe this distributed trend that's going on? What are the key reasons that they're driving it? What's making this more important than ever in your mind, in your opinion? >>I mean, for our use case, it was just a hard requirement, right? We had to be able to have this global service. But I think just for general use cases, a distributed database, distributed database has that like shared nothing architecture that allows you to kind of keep it running and horizontally scale it. And as your requirements and as your applications needs change, you can just keep adding on capacity and keep adding on reliability and availability. >>I'd love to get both of your opinion. You've been talking about the, the, the, the phases of customers, the advanced got Kubernetes going crazy distributed, super alpha geek. Then you got the, the people who are building now, then you got the lagers who are coming online. Where do you guys see the market now in terms of, I know the Alphas are all building all the great stuff and you guys had great success with all the top logos and they're all doing hardcore stuff. As the mainstream enterprise comes in, where's their psychology, what's on their mind? What's, you share any insight into your perspective on that? Because we're seeing a lot more of it folks becoming like real cloud players. >>Yeah, I feel like in mainstream enterprise hasn't been lagging as much as people think. You know, certainly there's been pockets in big enterprises that have been looking at this and as distributed sequel, it gives you that scalability that it's absolutely essential for big enterprises. But also it gives you the, the multi-region, you know, the, you have to be globally distributed. And for us, for enterprises, you know, you need your data near where the users are. I know this is hugely important to you as well. So you have to be able to have a multi-region functionality and that's one thing that distributed SQL lets you build and that what we built into our product. And I know that's one of the things you like too. >>Yeah, well we're a brand new product. I mean we only founded the company two years ago, but we're actually getting inbound interest from big enterprises because we solve the kinds of challenges that they have and whether, I mean, most of them already do have a cockroach footprint, but whether they did or didn't, once they need to bring in our product, they're going to be adopting cockroach transitively anyway. >>So, So you're built on top of Cockroach, right? And Spice dv, is that open source or? >>It >>Is, yep. Okay. And explain the role of open source and your business model. Can you take a minute to talk about the relevance of that? >>Yeah, open source is key. My background is, before this I was at Red Hat. Before that we were at CoreOS, so CoreOS acquisition and before that, >>One of the best acquisitions that ever happened for the value. That was a great, great team. Yeah, >>We, we, we had fun and before that we built Qua. So my co-founders and I, we built Quay, which is a, a first private docker registry. So CoreOS and, and all of those things are all open source or deeply open source. So it's just in our dna. We also see it as part of our go-to market motion. So if you are a database, a lot of people won't even consider what you're doing without being open source. Cuz they say, I don't want to take a, I don't want to, I don't want to end up in an Oracle situation >>Again. Yeah, Oracle meaning they go, you get you locked in, get you in a headlock, Increase prices. >>Yeah. Oh yeah, >>Can, can >>I got triggered. >>You need to talk about your PTSD there >>Or what. >>I mean we have 20,000 stars on GitHub because we've been open and transparent from the beginning. >>Yeah. And it >>Well, and both of your projects were started based on Google Papers, >>Right? >>That is true. Yep. And that's actually, so we're based off of the Google Zans of our paper. And as you know, Cockroach is based off of the Google Span paper and in the the Zanzibar paper, they have this globally distributed database that they're built on top of. And so when I said we're gonna go and we're gonna make a company around the Zabar paper, people would go, Well, what are you gonna do for Span? And I was like, Easy cockroach, they've got us covered. >>Yeah, I know the guys and my friends. Yeah. So the question is why didn't you get into the first round of Cockroach? She said don't answer that. >>The question he did answer though was one of those age old arguments in our community about pronunciation. We used to argue about Quay, I always called it Key of course. And the co-founder obviously knows how it's pronounced, you know, it's the et cd argument, it's the co cuddl versus the control versus coo, CTL Quay from the co-founder. That is end of argument. You heard it here first >>And we're keeping it going with Osted. So awesome. A lot of people will say Zeed or, you know, so we, we just like to have a little ambiguity >>In the, you gotta have some semantic arguments, arm wrestling here. I mean, it keeps, it keeps everyone entertained, especially on the over the weekend. What's, what's next? You got obviously Kubernetes in there. Can you explain the relationship between Kubernetes, how you're handling Spice dv? What, what does the Kubernetes piece fit in and where, where is that going to be going? >>Yeah, great question. Our flagship product right now is a dedicated, and in a dedicated, what we're doing is we're spinning up a single tenant Kubernetes cluster. We're installing all of our operator suite, and then we're installing the application and running it in a single tenant fashion for our customers in the same region, in the same data center where they're running their applications to minimize latency. Because of this, as an authorization service, latency gets passed on directly to the end user. So everybody's trying to squeeze the latency down as far as they can. And our strategy is to just run these single tenant stacks for people with the minimal latency that we can and give them a VPC dedicated link very similar to what Cockroach does in their dedicated >>Product. And the distributed architecture makes that possible because it's lighter way, it's not as heavy. Is that one of the reasons? >>Yep. And Kubernetes really gives us sort of like a, a level playing field where we can say, we're going going to take the provider, the cloud providers Kubernetes offering, normalize it, lay down our operators, and then use that as the base for delivering >>Our application. You know, Jake, you made me think of something I wanted to bring up with other guests, but now since you're here, you're an expert, I wanna bring that up, but talk about Super Cloud. We, we coined that term, but it's kind of multi-cloud, is that having workloads on multiple clouds is hard. I mean there are, they are, there are workloads on, on clouds, but the complexity of one clouds, let's take aws, they got availability zones, they got regions, you got now data issues in each one being global, not that easy on one cloud, nevermind all clouds. Can you share your thoughts on how you see that progression? Because when you start getting, as its distributed database, a lot of good things might come up that could fit into solving the complexity of global workloads. Could you share your thoughts on or scoping that problem space of, of geography? Yeah, because you mentioned latency, like that's huge. What are some of the other challenges that other people have with mobile? >>Yeah, absolutely. When you have a service like ours where the data is small, but very critical, you can get a vendor like Cockroach to step in and to fill that gap and to give you that globally distributed database that you can call into and retrieve the data. I think the trickier issues come up when you have larger data, you have huge binary blobs. So back when we were doing Quay, we wanted to be a global service as well, but we had, you know, terabytes, petabytes of data that we were like, how do we get this replicated everywhere and not go broke? Yeah. So I think those are kind of the interesting issues moving forward is what do you do with like those huge data lakes, the huge amount of data, but for the, the smaller bits, like the things that we can keep in a relational database. Yeah, we're, we're happy that that's quickly becoming a solved >>Problem. And by the way, that that data problem also is compounded when the architecture goes to the edge. >>Totally. >>I mean this is a big issue. >>Exactly. Yeah. Edge is something that we're thinking a lot about too. Yeah, we're lucky that right now the applications that are consuming us are in a data center already. But as they start to move to the edge, we're going to have to move to the edge with them. And it's a story that we're gonna have to figure out. >>All right, so you're a customer cockroach, what's the testimonial if I put you on the spot, say, hey, what's it like working with these guys? You know, what, what's the, what's the, you know, the founders, so you know, you give a good description, little biased, but we'll, we'll we'll hold you on it. >>Yeah. Working with Cockroach has been great. We've had a couple things that we've run into along the way and we've gotten great support from our account managers. They've brought in the right technical expertise when we need it. Cuz what we're doing with Cockroach is not you, you couldn't do it on Postgres, right? So it's not just a simple rip and replace for us, we're using all of the features of Cockroach, right? We're doing as of system time queries, we're doing global replication. We're, you know, we're, we're consuming it all. And so we do need help from them sometimes and they've been great. Yeah. >>And that's natural as they grow their service. I mean the world's changing. >>Well I think one of the important points that you mentioned with multi-cloud, we want you to have the choice. You know, you can run it in in clouds, you can run it hybrid, you can run it OnPrem, you can do whatever you want and it's just, it's one application that you can run in these different data centers. And so really it's up to you how do you want to build your infrastructure? >>And one of the things we've been talking about, the super cloud concept that we've been issue getting a lot of contrary, but, but people are leaning into it is that it's the refactoring and taking advantage of the services. Like what you mentioned about cockroach. People are doing that now on cloud going the lift and shift market kind of had it time now it's like hey, I can start taking advantage of these higher level services or capability of someone else's stack and refactoring it. So I think that's a dynamic that I'm seeing a lot more of. And it sounds like it's working out great in this situation. >>I just came from a talk and I asked them, you know, what don't you wanna put in the cloud and what don't you wanna run in Kubernetes or on containers and good Yeah. And the customers that I was on stage with, one of the guys made a joke and he said I would put my dog in a container room. I could, he was like in the category, which is his right, which he is in the category of like, I'll put everything in containers and these are, you know, including like mis critical apps, heritage apps, since they don't wanna see legacy anymore. Heritage apps, these are huge enterprises and they wanna put everything in the cloud. Everything >>You so want your dog that gets stuck on the airplane when it's on the tarmac. >>Oh >>God, that's, she was the, don't take that analogy. Literally don't think about that. Well that's, >>That's let's not containerize. >>There's always supply chain concern. >>It. So I mean going macro and especially given where we are cncf, it's all about open source. Do y'all think that open source builds a better future? >>Yeah and a better past. I mean this is, so much of this software is founded on open source. I, we wouldn't be here really. I've been in open source community for many, many years so I wouldn't say I'm biased. I would say this is how we build software. I came from like in a high school we're all like, oh let's build a really cool application. Oh you know what? I built this cuz I needed it, but maybe somebody else needs it too. And you put it out there and that is the ethos of Silicon Valley, right? That's where we grew up. So I've always had that mindset, you know, and social coding and why I have three people, right? Working on the same thing when one person you could share it's so inefficient. All of that. Yeah. So I think it's great that people work on what they're really good at. You know, we all, now you need some standardization, you need some kind of control around this whole thing. Sometimes some foundations to, you know, herd the cats. Yeah. But it's, it's great. Which is why I'm a c CF ambassador and I spend a lot of time, you know, in my free time talking about open source. Yeah, yeah. >>It's clear how passionate you are about it. Jake, >>This is my second company that we founded now and I don't think either of them could have existed without the base of open source, right? Like when you look at I have this cool idea for an app or a company and I want to go try it out, the last thing I want to do is go and negotiate with a vendor to get like the core data component. Yeah. To even be able to get to the >>Prototypes. NK too, by the way. Yeah. >>Hey >>Nk >>Or hire, you know, a bunch of PhDs to go and build that core component for me. So yeah, I mean nobody can argue that >>It truly is, I gotta say a best time if you're a developer right now, it's awesome to be a developer right now. It's only gonna get better. As we were riff from the last session about productivity, we believe that if you follow the digital transformation to its conclusion, developers and it aren't a department serving the business, they are the business. And that means they're running the show, which means that now their entire workflow is gonna change. It's gonna be have to be leveraging services partnering. So yeah, open source just fills that. So the more code coming up, it's just no doubt in our mind that that's go, that's happening and will accelerate. So yeah, >>You know, no one company is gonna be able to compete with a community. 50,000 users contributing versus you riding it yourself in your garage with >>Your dogs. Well it's people driven too. It's humans not container. It's humans working together. And here you'll see, I won't say horse training, that's a bad term, but like as projects start to get traction, hey, why don't we come together as, as the world starts to settle and the projects have traction, you start to see visibility into use cases, functionality. Some projects might not be, they have to kind of see more kind >>Of, not every feature is gonna be development. Oh. So I mean, you know, this is why you connect with truly brilliant people who can architect and distribute sequel database. Like who thought of that? It's amazing. It's as, as our friend >>You say, Well let me ask you a question before we wrap up, both by time, what is the secret of Kubernetes success? What made Kubernetes specifically successful? Was it timing? Was it the, the unambitious nature of it, the unification of it? Was it, what was the reason why is Kubernetes successful, right? And why nothing else? >>Well, you know what I'm gonna say? So I'm gonna let Dave >>First don't Jake, you go first. >>Oh boy. If we look at what was happening when Kubernetes first came out, it was, Mesosphere was kind of like the, the big player in the space. I think Kubernetes really, it had the backing from the right companies. It had the, you know, it had the credibility, it was sort of loosely based on Borg, but with the story of like, we've fixed everything that was broken in Borg. Yeah. And it's better now. Yeah. So I think it was just kind and, and obviously people were looking for a solution to this problem as they were going through their containerization journey. And I, yeah, I think it was just right >>Place, the timing consensus of hey, if we just let this happen, something good might come together for everybody. That's the way I felt. I >>Think it was right place, right time, right solution. And then it just kind of exploded when we were at Cores. Alex Povi, our ceo, he heard about Kubernetes and he was like, you know, we, we had a thing called Fleet D or we had a tool called Fleet. And he's like, Nope, we're all in on Kubernetes now. And that was an amazing Yeah, >>I remember that interview. >>I, amazing decision. >>Yeah, >>It's clear we can feel the shift. It's something that's come up a lot this week is is the commitment. Everybody's all in. People are ready for their transformation and Kubernetes is definitely gonna be the orchestrator that we're >>Leveraging. Yeah. And it's an amazing community. But it was, we got lucky that the, the foundational technology, I mean, you know, coming out of Google based on Go conferences, based on Go, it's no to coincidence that this sort of nature of, you know, pods horizontally, scalable, it's all fits together. I does make sense. Yeah. I mean, no offense to Python and some of the other technologies that were built in other languages, but Go is an awesome language. It's so, so innovative. Innovative things you could do with it. >>Awesome. Oh definitely. Jake, I'm very curious since we learned on the way and you are a Detroit native? >>I am. Yep. I grew up in the in Warren, which is just a suburb right outside of Detroit. >>So what does it mean to you as a Michigan born bloke to be here, see your entire community invade? >>It is, I grew up coming to the Detroit Auto Show in this very room >>That brought me to Detroit the first time. Love n a I a s. Been there with our friends at Ford just behind us. >>And it's just so interesting to me to see the accumulation, the accumulation of tech coming to Detroit cuz it's really not something that historically has been a huge presence. And I just love it. I love to see the activity out on the streets. I love to see all the restaurants and coffee shops full of people. Just, I might tear up. >>Well, I was wondering if it would give you a little bit of that hometown pride and also the joy of bringing your community together. I mean, this is merging your two probably most core communities. Yeah, >>Yeah. Your >>Youth and your, and your career. It doesn't get more personal than that really. Right. >>It's just been, it's been really exciting to see the energy. >>Well thanks for going on the queue. Thanks for sharing. Appreciate it. Thanks >>For having us. Yeah, thank you both so much. Lisa, you were a joy of ball of energy right when you walked up. Jake, what a compelling story. Really appreciate you sharing it with us. John, thanks for the banter and the fabulous questions. I'm >>Glad I could help out. >>Yeah, you do. A lot more than help out sweetheart. And to all of you watching the Cube today, thank you so much for joining us live from Detroit, the Cube Studios. My name is Savannah Peterson and we'll see you for our event wrap up next.

(upbeat music) >> Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of Snowflake Summit 22, the fourth annual Snowflake Summit. Lisa Martin here with Dave Vellante, We're live in Vegas, as I mentioned. We've got a couple of guests here with us. We're going to be unpacking some more great information that has come out of the show news today. Please welcome Chris Child back to theCUBE, Senior Director of Product Management at Snowflake, and Lisa Cramer is here, Head of Embedded Products at LiveRamp, guys welcome. >> Thank you. >> Hi. >> Tell us a little bit about LiveRamp, what you guys do, what your differentiators are and a little bit about the Snowflake partnership? >> Sure, well, LiveRamp makes it safe and easy to connect data. And we're powered by core identity resolution capabilities, which enable our clients to resolve their data, and connect it with other data sets. And so we've brought these identity infrastructure capabilities to Snowflake, and built into the Native Application Framework. We focused on two initial products around device resolution, which enables our clients to connect customer data from the digital ecosystem. This powers things like, measurement use cases, and understanding campaign effectiveness and ROI. And the second capability we built into the Native Application Framework is called transcoding. And this enables a translation layer between identifiers, so that parties can safely and effectively share data at a person-based view. >> Chris, talk to us about, Snowflake just announced a lot of news this morning, just announced, the new Snowflake Native Application Framework. You alluded to this, Lisa, talk to us about that. What does it mean for customers, what does it do? Give us all the backstory. >> Yeah, so we had seen a bunch of cases for our customers where they wanted to be able to take application logic, and have other people use it. So LiveRamp, as an example of that, they've built a bunch of complicated logic to help you figure out who is the same person in different systems. But the problem was always that, that application had to run outside of the Data Cloud. And that required you to take your data outside of Snowflake, entrust your data to a third party. And so every time that companies have to go, become a vendor, they have to go through a security review, and go through a long onerous process, to be able to be allowed to process the really sensitive data that these customers have. So with the Native Applications Framework, you can take your application code, all of the logic, and the data that's needed to build it together, and actually push that through secure data sharing into a customer's account, where it runs, and is able to access their data, join it with data from the provider, all without actually having to give that provider access to your core data assets themselves. >> Is it proper to think of the Native Application Framework as a PaaS layer within the Data Cloud? >> That's a great way to think about it. And so, this is where we've integrated with the marketplace as well. So providers like LiveRamp will be able to publish these applications. They'll run entirely on effectively a PaaS layer that's powered by Snowflake, and be able to deliver those to any region, any cloud, any place that Snowflake runs. >> So, we get a lot of grief for this term, but we've coined a term called "supercloud". Okay, and the supercloud is an abstraction layer that hovers above the hyperscale infrastructure. Companies like yours, build on top of that. So you don't have to worry about the underlying complexities. And we've said that, in order to make that a reality, you have to have a super PaaS. So is that essentially what you're doing? You're building your product on top of that? You're not worrying about, okay, now I'm going to go to Azure, I'm going to go to AWS, or I'm going to go to, wherever, is that a right way to think about it? >> That's exactly right. And I think, Snowflake has really helped us, kind of shift the paradigm in how we work with our customers, and enabled us to bring our capabilities to where their data lives, right? And enabled them to, kind of run the analytics, and run the identity resolution where their data sits. And so that's really exciting. And I think, specifically with the Native Application Framework, Snowflake delivered on the promise of minimizing data movement, right? The application is installed. You don't have to move your data at all. And so for us, that was a really compelling reason to build into it. And we love when our customers can maintain control of their data. >> So the difference between what you are doing as partners, and a SaaS, is that, you're not worrying about all the capabilities, there in the data, all the governance, and the security components. You're relying on the Data Cloud for that, is that right? Or is it a SaaS? >> Yeah, I think there's components, like certainly parts of our business still run in the SaaS model. But I think the ability to rely on some of the infrastructure that Snowflake provides, and honestly kind of the connectivity, and the verticalized solutions that Snowflake brings to bear with data providers, and technology providers, that matter most to that vertical, really enable us to kind of rely on some of that to ensure that we can serve our customers as they want us to. >> So you're extending your SaaS platform and bringing new capabilities, as opposed to building, or are you building new apps in the Data Cloud? This is, I'm sorry to be so pedantic, but I'm trying to understand from your perspective. >> Oh yeah, so we built new capabilities within the Data Cloud. It's based on our core identity infrastructure capabilities, but we wanted to build into the Native Application Framework, so that data doesn't have to move and we can serve our customers, and they can maintain control over their data in their environment. So we built new capabilities, but it's all based on our core identity infrastructure. >> So safe sharing reminds me of like when procurement says, do we have an MSA? Yes, okay, go. You know, it's just frictionless. Versus no, okay, send some paper, go back and forth and it just takes forever. >> That's one of the big goals that we see. And to your point on, is it a PaaS, is it a SaaS? We honestly think of it as something a little bit different, in a similar way to where, at Snowflake we saw a whole generation of SaaS business models, and as a utility, and a consumption-based model, we think of ourselves as different from a SaaS business model. We're now trying to enable application providers, like LiveRamp, to take the core technology in IP that they've built over many, many years, but deliver it in a completely new different way that wasn't possible. And so part of this is extending what they're doing, and making it a little easier to deploy, and not having to go through the MSA process in the same way. But also we do think that this will allow entirely new capabilities to be brought that wouldn't be possible, unless they could be deployed and run inside the Data Cloud. >> Is LiveRamp a consumption pricing model, or is it a subscription, or a combo? >> We are actually a subscription, but with some usage capabilities. >> It's an hybrid. >> Chris, talk a little bit about the framework that you guys have both discussed. How is it part of the overall Snowflake vision of delivering secure and governed, powerful analytics, and data sharing to customers, and ecosystem partners? >> So this, for us we view this as kind of the next evolution of Snowflake. So Snowflake was all built on helping people consolidate their data, bring all your data into one place and then run all of your different workloads on it. And what we've seen over the years is, there are still a lot of different use cases, where you need to take your data out of the Data Cloud, in order to do certain different things. So we made a bunch of announcements today around machine learning, so that you don't have to take your data out to train models. And native applications is built on the idea of don't bring your data to the applications you need. Whether they're machine learning models, whether they're identity resolution, whether they're really even just analytics. Instead, take the application logic and bring that into the Data Cloud, and run it right on your data where it is. And so the big benefit of that is, I don't need copies of my data that are getting out of sync, and getting out of date. I don't need to give a copy of my data to anyone else. I get to keep it, I get to govern it. I get to secure it. I know exactly what's going on. But now, we can open this up to workloads, not just ones that Snowflake's building, but workloads that partners like LiveRamp, or anyone else is building. All those workloads can then run in a single copy of your data, in a single secure environment. >> And when you say in one place, Chris, people can get confused by that, 'cause it's really not in one place. it's the global thing that Benoit stressed this morning >> And that right, and so these, once you write a native app once, so the native app that they've written is one piece of code, one application, that now can be deployed by customers in any region, or on any cloud that they're running on without any changes at all. So to your point on the PaaS, that's where it gets very PaaS-like, because they write once to the Snowflake APIs, and now it can run literally anywhere the Snowflake runs. >> But the premise that we've put forth in supercloud is that, this is a new era. It's not multicloud. And it's consistent with a digital business, right? You're building, you've got a digital business, and this is a new value layer of a digital business. If I've got capabilities, I want to bring them to the cloud. I want to bring them to, every company's a software company, software's eating the world, data's eating software. I mean, I could go on and on and on, but it's not like 10 years ago. This is a whole new life cycle that we're just starting. Is that valid? I mean do you feel that way about LiveRamp? >> Definitely, I mean, I think it's really exciting to see all of the data connectivity that is happening. At the same time, I think the challenges still remain, right? So there are still challenges around being able to resolve your data, and being able to connect your data to a person-based view in a privacy safe way, to be able to partner with others in a data collaboration model, right? And to be able to do all of that without sharing anything from a sensitive identifier standpoint, or not having a resolved data set. And so I think you're absolutely right. There's a lot of really cool, awesome innovation happening, but the customer challenges, kind of still exist. And so that's why it's exciting to build these applications that can now solve those problems, where that data is. >> It's the cloud benefit, the heavy lifting thing, for data? 'Cause you don't have to worry about all that. You can focus on campaign ROI, or whatever new innovation that you want to bring out. >> And think about it from the end customer's perspective. They now, can come into their single environment where they have all their data, they can say, I need to match the identity, and they can pull in LiveRamp with a few clicks, and then they can say, I'm ready to take some actions on this. And they can pull in action tools with just a few more clicks. And they haven't made current marketing stack that you see. There's 20 different tools and you're schlepping data back and forth between each of them, and LiveRamp's just one stop on your journey to get this data out to where I'm actually sending emails or targeting ads. Our vision is that, all that happens on one copy of the data, each of these different tools are grabbing the parts they need, again in a secure well-governed, well-controlled way, enriching in ways that they need, taking actions that they need, pulling in other data sets that they need. But the end consumer maintains control over the data, and over the process, the entire way through. >> So one copy data. So you sometimes might make a copy, right? But you'd make as many copies as you need to, but no more, kind of thing, to paraphrase Einstein, or is that right? >> There's literally one copy of the data. So one of the nice things with Snowflake, with data sharing, and with native applications, the data is stored once in one file on disc and S3, which eventually is a disc somewhere. >> Yeah, yeah, right. >> But what can happen is, I'm really just granting permission to these different applications, to read and write from that single copy of the data. So as soon as a new customer touches my website, that immediately shows up in my data. LiveRamp gets access to that instantly. They enrich it. Before I've even noticed that that new customer signed up, the data's already been enriched, the identity's been matched, and they're already put into a bucket about what campaign I should run against them. >> So the data stays where it is. You bring the ISO compute, but the application. And then you take the results, right? And then I can read them back? >> You bring the next application, right to that same copy of the data. So what'll happen is you'll have a view that LiveRamp is accessing and reading and making changes on, LiveRamp is exposing its own view, I have another application reading from the LiveRamp view, exposing its own view. And ultimately someone's taking an action based on that. But there's one copy of the data all the way through. That's the really powerful thing. >> Okay, so yeah, so you're not moving the data. So you're not dealing with latency problems, but I can, if I'm in Australia and I'm running on US West, it's not a problem? >> Yes, so there, if you do want to run across different clouds, we will copy the data in that case, we've found it's much faster. >> Okay, great, I thought I was losing my mind. >> No, but as long as you're staying within a single region, there will be no copies of the data. >> Yeah, okay, totally makes sense, great. >> One of the efficiency there in speed to be able to get the insights. That's what it's all about, being able to turn the volume up on the data from a value perspective. Thanks so much guys for joining us on the program today talking about what LiveRamp and Snowflake are doing together and breaking down the Snowflake Native Application Framework. We appreciate your insights and your time, And thanks for joining us. >> Thank you both. >> Thank you guys. >> Thank you. >> For our guests, and Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE Live from Snowflake Summit 22 from Las Vegas. We'll be right back with our next guest. (upbeat music)

>>The pandemic saw a majority of employees working remotely, as we all know, and the world turning to digital services, which caused an uptick in cyber attacks because almost all business was conducted virtually well, the unprecedented events of 2020 led to an enormous and extended upswing in innovation for threat actors. And it's not going away anytime soon. This is according to our colleagues at NetScout and an excerpt from its first half 2021 threat intelligence report. And this event, we're going to unpack Netscout's semi-annual security report for the second half of 2021, which outlines how and why these attacks are carried out and what individuals and businesses can do to prevent attacks. Now, one of the things that NetScout discovered in the second half threat intelligence report is that these cyber attacks, they're not motivated by a single factor on notable example of a recent attack just last month, where government and private websites in Ukraine were knocked offline in a massive distributed denial of service DDoSs attack. >>As Russian troops moved into contested areas in the east of the country. My name is Lisa Martin. And today on this special Q presentation, Richard Hummel joins me manager of threat intelligence at NetScout. He and I are going to explore three of the key findings in the second half of 2021 threat intelligence reports. In the first segment, Richard's going to talk with me about the dark side of DDoS for hire. And one of the things that you're going to learn is that launching DDoS attacks with illicit DDoS for hire services no longer requires a nominal fee in segment two. Richard's going to talk to me about the rise of server class bot net armies. And as Richard will discuss recently, adversaries not only increased the size of IOT botnets, but also conscripted high powered servers into larger button nuts. Then we'll come back for a third and final segment to discuss the vertical industries where attackers really zeroed in for DDoSs attacks in the second half. And here Richard's going to explore some of the verticals that haven't traditionally been in the crosshairs, such as a software publishers and computer manufacturing. All right, guys, let's do this. Here comes our first segment.

>>Here you are new. Welcome back to the cubes. Continuing coverage of AWS reinvent 2021 live from Las Vegas. Lisa Martin, with John farrier, John, we have two live sets. There's a dueling set right across from us two remote studios over 100 guests on the cube at AWS reinvent 2021. Been great. We've had great conversations. We're talking about the next generation of cloud innovation and we're pleased to welcome one of our alumni back to the program. Lisa Bernays here, the CEO and co-founder of D L Z P group. Lisa. Welcome. >>Hi, thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to be here with you and John. It's a great opportunity >>And John's lucky he gets to lease us for the price of London. One second. Talk to me about da DLDP. This is a woman and minority owned company. Congratulations. That's awesome. But talk to us about your organization and then we'll kind of dig into your partnership with AWS. >>Sure. So DLC P group, we found it in 2012. Um, and for us, we were at the time we were just looking for a way to offer a value added service to our customers. We wanted to always make sure that we were giving them the best quality, but what I also wanted to do is I wanted to create an environment for my employees, where they felt valued, and we kind of built these core values back then about respect, flat hierarchy, um, team, team learning, mentorship, and we incorporated, so everybody can do this remotely from around the world. So we've always made sure that our employees and customers are getting the best value. >>Well, what kind of customers, what target market, what kind of customers do you guys work with? >>Well, we've actually made sure that we're diverse. We make sure that we have 50% in public sector and 50% in private sector, but it's been very, very interesting journey for us because once we started one sec, like we started with cities and then a number of cities started contacting us to do more business. So it's always been this hurdle to make sure we're diverse enough to make sure we offer the best solutions. >>And you jumped in with AWS back in 2012 when most folks were still to your point. I saw your interview earlier this summer, thinking about Amazon as a bookstore, why a debit? What did you see as the opportunity back in 2012 with them? >>Well, when we first heard about AWS, my first thought is, well, it's amazon.com. What is AWS? And then once we started talking to them, we saw the capabilities and the potential there. We saw what it could do. So we partnered with them to actually have the first working PeopleSoft customer on AWS. So that's a large ERP application and that helped build the foundation to prove what could actually run on the cloud. And since then, we've been able to prove so much more about the technology and what AWS is accomplishing. >>Was it a hard sell back in the day? >>It was a little bit hard, but it was interesting because we were speaking with one of our customers they're on premise and they're like, well, you know, we're going to have to re do a whole data center. We're talking about millions of dollars. We don't really have the budget to redo this. And that's when we're like, well, we have this great partnership with Amazon. We think this would be the perfect opportunity to let you try the cloud and see how successful it was. >>At least I want to point out you got your, one of the Pathfinders that Adams Leschi pointed out because back in 2012, getting PeopleSoft onto the cloud, which is really big effort, but that's what everyone's doing now. I just saw the news here. SAP is running their application on graviton too, right? So you start to see and public sector during the pandemic, we saw a ton of connect. So you were really on this whole ERP. ERP is our big applications. It's not small, but now it's, everyone's kind of going that way. What's the current, uh, you feel how you feel about that one? And what's the current update relative to the kind of projects you got going on? >>Well, we've, we've evolved quite a bit. I mean, PeopleSoft is always going to be in our DNA. A lot of my employees are ex or Oracle employees. They have developed a lot of the foundations for PeopleSoft, but since then, like we've worked with serverless technology when that was released a number of years ago, we, we asked our team, okay, AWS just talked about Lambda, serverless technology, go figure out what is the best solution. We ended up running ours, our website serverless. We were one of the first. And from that, we brought our website costs down from hundreds of dollars to pennies a month. So it's a huge savings. And then we started, um, about two years ago, we spoke with our utility company. Um, there were saying how with machine learning, they were only going to be able to get a 75% accuracy for their wind turbines. And we said, well, let us take a shot at it. We have some great solutions on AWS that we think might work. We were able to redo their algorithm using AWS cloud native tools, open source data to get a 97 to 99% accuracy on a daily basis. And that saves them millions of dollars each day. >>Don's right. And as Adam was saying with some of the folks, customers, he was highlighting on main stage the other day, you are a Pathfinder. How did you get the confidence? Especially as a female minority owned business. I'd love to just get maybe for some of those younger viewers out there. How did you get the confidence to, you know what? I think we can do this. >>I think for me, I, I, I don't like to take no for an answer. There's always a solution. So we're always looking at technology, seeing how we can use it to get a better answer. >>What do you think about reinvent this year? A lot of goodies here every year, there's always new creative juices flowing because it's a learning conference, but it's also feels like a futuristic kind of conference. What's your take this year? >>I don't know if you happen to attend midnight madness when they were talking about robotics and the future with that. I mean, we've been talking about that for a number of years of what could be created with robotics. Like even my son back in middle school was talking about creating a robot Butler. He just, everybody knows what the future is. And it's so great that we finally have the foundation in technology to be able to create these >>Well, if you're someone that doesn't like to say, no, does your son actually have a robot Butler these >>Days? He's still working on it. >>That's a good answer to say, Hey, sorry, your mom's not going to be there to get the robot. The latency thing. This is the robot. First of all, we'd love the robotics, I think is huge. We just had George on who's the fraught PM for ECE to edge and late, the wavelength stuff looks really promising for the robotics stuff. Super exciting. >>Yes. We can't wait to start playing with it more. I mean, it's something that our team has been dabbling. We spent probably about 30% of our time on R and D. So we're looking at the future and what we can invent next because >>You guys can affect such dramatic changes for customers. You talked about that wind turbine customer going from 75% accuracy to 97, 90 8%. Where are your customer conversations? Cause that's, is, are they at the C level with showing organizations that dramatic reduction in costs and workforce productivity increased that they can get? >>We talk with everyone it's it could be the solution architect. It could be an intern. It could, and we're just sharing our ideas with them. And we also talk with the C level. Um, it's just, it's everybody is interested in and they have different, different ideas that they want to share. So with the solution architect, we can share with them the code and how we're going to architect it. While the C level, we just pointed out black and white, this is your cost. Now this is what your cost is going to be. And everybody is happy. They, they jump on board with it. >>Lisa, you mentioned 30% R and D by the way, it's awesome. By the way, that's well above most averages, what are you working on? Because I totally think companies should have a big R and D play around budget, get a sandbox, going get some tinkering. Cause you never know where the real discoveries we had. David Brown who runs NC to nitro, came out of a card on the network. So you'd never know where the next innovation comes from. What's the, what are you guys doing for R and D? What's the fun projects are what endeavors. >>So there's two of them. One is actually a product, which is a little bit out of our comfort zone, but we're, we're, we're looking to develop something that will be able to help, um, NASA. So that's the goal where, you know, we've been working on it since they released their ma their mission to Mars projection. So it's something that we're very passionate about, but then we're also building a software. Uh, we've been working on it for about three years now and we actually have two customers prototyping it. So we're hoping to be able to launch it to the public within the next year. >>You mentioned NASA and I just about jumped out of my chair. That was my first job out of grad school was really the space program. Can you tell us a little bit more about what you're helping them do? I love how forward-thinking that they are, obviously they always have been, but tell me a little bit more about that. >>So I can't share too much because it's one of those things is a common sense thing. Once you think about a little bit more, it's kind of like why didn't anybody never think about this? So we're using new technology and old technology together to combine the solution. >>Ooh, I can't wait to learn more. Talk to us about these. Think big for small business TB SB program at AWS. How long have you guys been a part of that and what is it enabling? What is it going to enable you to do in 2022? So >>The think big for small business program was the brainchild is Sandy Carter. And I am always, always going to be grateful to her. Um, I met with her in 2019. I shared her journey, our journey with her about how we started out being a premier partner and then over time, because there's so many other partners, we were downgraded. And because just because we're a small business, and even if I had every employee, even my admin staff certified, we would never have enough employees to be to the next level, even though we had the customers, the references. So she listened to us and other small businesses and created the program. And it's been a great opportunity for us because we're, we're gaining access to capital, you know, funding for opportunities. We're getting resources for training. So it, for us, it's been a huge advantage. >>It sounds like a part of that AWS flywheel that we always talk about. John Sandy Carter being one of our famous Cuba alumni. She was just on yesterday with you. Okay. >>And there's so many opportunities for all businesses because you can, you can tackle these problems. You don't have to be a large partner. You can have specialty in AI works really well in these specialized environments. And even technically single-threaded multithreaded applications, which is a technical CS term is actually better to have a single threaded. If you have too many cores, it's actually bad technically. So the world's changing like big time on how technology. So I'm a huge fan of the program. And I think like it's just one of those things where people can get it from cloud and be successful. >>Yes. And that's the goal. I mean, there is so much opportunity in the cloud and we bring interns on all the time, just so they can learn. And what, what resonated with me the most was we brought a high school senior in, he goes, I was with you guys for three months. I learned more in three months, I did four years of high school. And he's like, you set me up for the future. >>Oh my gosh. If there's not validation for you doing in that statement alone. My goodness. Well, you know, some of the things that, that are so many exciting announcements that have come out of this reinvent, so great to be back in person one. Um, but also, you know, being able to help AWS customers become data companies. Because as we were been talking about the last couple of days, every company has to be a data company. You gotta figure it out. If you're, if you haven't by now, there's a competitor right back here, who's ready to take your spot. Talk to us about what excites you about enabling companies to become data companies as we head into 2020. >>Well, for us, everybody has so much data nowadays. You know, I mean even think about cell phones, how much data is stored in that. So each device has so much information, but what do you do with it? So it's great because a lot of these companies are trying to figure out what, how can we use this data to prove that improve the experience for our customers? So that's where we've been coming in and showing them, okay, well, you can take that data. You look at Lisa and John cell phone. You see that they, they love to look up where they're going to go on their next vacation. You can start creating algorithms to make sure that they get the best experience one for the next vacation to make sure it's not a won't Rob the bank. >>Awesome. And going on vacation tomorrow. So I'll be, I'll be expecting some help from you on that. It's been great to have you on the program. Yeah. Congratulations on the success, the partnership, and where can folks go if if young or old years are watching and are interested in working with you, it's the website where they, where can they go to learn more >>Information? So they can go to D L Z P group.com >>DLZ P group.com. Awesome. Lisa, thanks so much for coming back on the program. Great >>To see you. Thank you so much. All >>Right. For John furrier, I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching the cube, the global leader in live tech coverage.

>>Welcome to the cubes, continuing coverage of AWS reinvent 2021. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. We are running one of the industry's most important and largest hybrid tech events of the year. This year with AWS and its ecosystem partners. We have two life studios, two remote studios, and over 100 guests. So stick around as we talk about the next 10 years of cloud innovation, I'm very excited to be joined by another Lisa from Zscaler. Lisa Lorenzen is here with me, the field CTO for the Americas. She's here to talk about ZScaler's mission to make doing business and navigating change a simpler, faster, and more productive experience. Lisa, welcome to the program. >>Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. >>So let's talk about Zscaler in AWS. Talk to me about the partnership, what you guys are doing together. >>Yeah, definitely. Z scaler is a strategic security ISV partner with AWS. So we provide AWS customers with zero trust, secure remote access to AWS, and this can improve their security posture as well as their user experience with AWS. These scaler recently announced that we are the first and only cloud security service to achieve the FedRAMP PI authorization to operate. And that FedRAMP ZPA service is built on AWS gov cloud. ZScaler's also an AWS marketplace seller where our customers can purchase our zero trust exchange services as well as request or high value security assessments. We're excited about that as we're seeing a rapid increase in customer adoption as these scaler via the AWS marketplace, we vetted our software on AWS edge services that support emerging use cases, including 5g, IOT, and OT. So for example, Zscaler runs on wavelength, outposts, snowball and snowcones, and Zscaler has strategic partnerships with leading AWS service providers and system integration partners, including Verizon NTT, BT, Accenture, Deloitte, and many of the leading national and regional AWS consulting partners. >>Great summary there. So you mentioned something I want to get more understanding on this. It sounds like it's a differentiator for CSO scale. You said that you guys recently announced to the first and only cloud security service to achieve FedRAMP high. Uh, ATO built on AWS gov cloud. Talk to me about and what the significance of that is. >>I L five authorization to operate means that we are able to protect federal assets for the department of defense, as well as for the civilian agencies. It just extends the certification of our cloud by the government to ensure that we meet all of the requirements to protect that military side of the house, as well as the civilian side of the house. >>Got it super important there, let's talk about zero trust. It's a super hot topic. We've seen so many changes to the threat landscape during the pandemic. How are some of the ways that Z scaler and AWS are helping customers tackle this together? >>Well, I'd actually like to answer that by telling a little bit of a story. Um, Growmark is one of our Z scaler and AWS success stories when they had to send everyone home to work from home overnight, the quote that we had from is the users just went home and nothing changed. ZPA made work from anywhere, just work, and they were able to maintain complete business continuity. So even though their employers might have had poor internet service at home, or, you know, 80 challenging infrastructure, if you've got kids on your wifi bunch of kids in the neighborhood doing remote school, everyone's working from home, you don't have the reliability or the, maybe the bandwidth capacity that you would when you're sitting in an office. And Zscaler private access is a cloud delivered zero trust solution that leverages dynamic resilient, TLS encrypted tunnels to connect the user to an application rather than putting an end point on a network. >>And the reason that's important is it makes for a much more reliable and resilient service, even in environments that may not have the best connectivity I live out in the county. I really, some days think that there's a hamster on a wheel somewhere in my cable modem network, and I am a consumer of this, right. I connect to Z scaler over Zscaler private access, I'm protected by Zscaler internet access. And so I access our internal applications that are running in AWS as well this way. And it makes a huge difference. Growmark really started with an SAP migration to AWS, and this was long before the pandemic. So they started out looking for that better user experience and the zero trust capability. They were able to ensure that their SAP environment was dark to the internet, even though it was running in the cloud. And that put them in this position to leverage that zero trust service when the pandemic was upon us, >>That ability or that quote that you mentioned, it just worked was absolutely critical for all of us in every industry. And I'm sure a lot of folks who were trying to manage working from home, the spouses from home kids doing, you know, school online also felt like you with the hamster on the wheel, I'm sure their internet access, but being able to have that business continuity was table-stakes especially early on for most organizations. We saw a lot of digital transformation, a lot of acceleration of it in the last 20 months during the pandemic. Talk to me about how Z scaler helps customers from a digital transformation perspective and maybe what some of the things were that you saw in the last 20 months that have accelerated >>Absolutely. Um, another example, there would be Jefferson health, and really, as we saw during the pandemic, as you say, it accelerated a lot of the existing trends of mobility, but also migration to the cloud. And when you move applications to the cloud, honestly, it's a complex environment and maybe the controls and the risk landscape is not as well. Understood. So Z scaler also has another solution, which is our cloud security posture management. And this is really ensuring that your configuration on your environment, that those workloads run in is controlled, understood correctly, coordinated and configured. So as deference and health migrated to the cloud first model, they were able to leverage the scalers workload posture to measure and control that risk. Again, it's environment where the combination of AWS and Z scaler together gives them a flexible, resilient solution that they can be confident is correctly configured and thoroughly locked down. >>And that's critical for businesses in any organization, especially as quickly as how quickly things changed in the last 20 months or so I do wonder how your customer conversations have has changed as I introduced you as the field CTO of the America's proceeds killer. I'm sure you talk with a lot of customers. How has the security posture, um, zero trust? How has that risen up within the organizational chain? Is that something that the board is concerned about? >>My gosh, yes. And zero trust really has gone through the Gartner hype cycle. You've got the introduction, the peak of interest, the trough of despair, and then really rising back into what's actually feasible. Only zero trust has done that on a timeline of over a decade. When the term was first introduced, I was working with firewall VPN enact technology, and frankly, we didn't necessarily have the flexibility, the scalability, or the resilience to offer true zero trust. You can try to do that with network security controls, but when you're really protecting a user connecting to an application, you've got an abstraction layer mismatch. What we're seeing now is the reemergence of zero trust as a priority. And this was greatly accelerated honestly by the cybersecurity executive order that came out a few months ago from the Biden administration, which made zero trust a priority for the federal government and the public sector, but also raised visibility on zero trust for the private sector as well. >>When we're looking at zero trust as a way to perhaps ward off some of these high profile breaches and outages like the colonial pipeline, whole situation that was based on some legacy technology for remote access that was exploited and led to a breach that they had to take their entire infrastructure offline to mitigate. If we can look at more modern delivery mechanisms and more sophisticated controls for zero trust, that helps the board address a number of challenges ranging from obviously risk management, but also agility and cost reduction in an environment where more than ever belts are being tightened. New ways of delivering applications are being considered. But the ability to innovate is more important than ever. >>It is more important than ever the ability to innovate, but it really changing security landscape. I'm glad to hear that you're seeing, uh, this change as a result of the executive order that president Biden put down in the summer. That's good news. It sounds like there's some progress being made there, but we saw, you mentioned colonial pipeline. We saw a lot in the last 20, 22 months or so with ransomware becoming a household word, also becoming something that is a matter of when companies in any industry get hit and versus if it's no longer kind of that choice anymore. So talk to me about some of the threats and some of the stats that Z scaler has seen particularly in the last 20, 22 months. >>Oh gosh. Well, let's see. I'm just going to focus on the last 12 months, cause that's really where we've got some of the best data. We've seen a 500% increase in ransomware delivered over encrypted channels. And what that means is it's really critical to have scalable SSL inspection that can operate at wire speed without impeding the user experience or delay in critical projects, server communications, activities that need to happen without any introduced in any additional latency. So if you think about what that takes the Z scaler internet access solution is protecting users, outbound access in the same way that Zscaler private access protects access to private resources. So we're really seeing more and more organizations seeing that both of these services are necessary to deliver a comprehensive zero trust. You have to protect and control the outbound traffic to make sure that nothing good leaks out, nothing bad sneaks in. >>And at the same time, you have to protect and control the inbound traffic and inbound is, you know, a much broader definition with apps in the data center in the cloud these days. We're also seeing that 30% of malware is delivered through trusted applications like file shares or collaboration tools. So it's no longer enough to only inspect web traffic. Now you have to be able to really inspect all flavors of traffic when you're doing that outbound protection. So another good example where Z scaler and AWS work together here is in Amazon workspaces. And there's a huge trend towards desktop as a service, for example, and organizations are starting to recognize that they need to protect both the user experience and also the connectivity onward in Amazon workspaces, the same way that they would for a traditional end user device. So we see Z scaler running in the Amazon workspaces instances to protect that outbound traffic and control that inbound traffic as well. >>Another big area is the ransomware infections are not the problem. It's the result. So over half of the ransomware infections include data theft or leakage. And that is a double whammy because you get what's called double extortion where not only do you have to pay to unlock your machines, but you have to pay not to have that stolen data exposed to the rest of the world. So it's more important than ever to be able to break that kill chain as early as possible to ensure that the or the server traffic itself isn't exposed to the initial infection vector. If you do happen to get an infection vector that sneaks through, you need to be able to control the lateral movement so that it doesn't spread in your environment. And then if both of those controls fail, you also need the outbound protection such as CASBY and DLP to ensure that even if they get into the environment, they can't exfiltrate any of the data that they find as a result. We're seeing that the largest security risk today is lateral movement inside the corporate network. And that's one of the things that makes these ransomware double extortion situations, such a problem. >>Last question for you. And we've got about a minute left. I'm curious, you said over 50% of ransomware attacks are now double extortion. How do you guys help customers combat that? So >>We really deliver a solution that eliminates a lot of the attack surface and a lot of the risks. We have no inbound listener, unlike a traditional VPN. So the outbound only connections mean you don't have the external attack surface. You can write these granular policy controls to eliminate lateral movement. And because we integrate with customer's existing identity and access management, we can eliminate the credential exposure that can lead to a larger spread in a compromised environment. We also can eliminate the problem of unpatched gateways, which led to things like colonial pipeline or some of the other major breaches we've seen recently. And we can remove that single point of failure. So you can rely on dynamic optimized traffic distribution for all of these secure services. Basically, what we're trying to do is make it simpler and more secure at the same time, >>Simpler and more secure at the same time is what everyone needs regardless of industry. Lisa, thank you for joining me today, talking about Zscaler in AWS, zero trust the threat landscape that you're seeing, and also how's the scaler and AWS together can help customers mitigate those growing risks. We appreciate your insights and your thoughtfulness. >>Thank you >>For Lisa Lorenzen. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cubes coverage of AWS reinvent stick around more great content coming up next.

>>Welcome to this cube conversation. I'm Dave Nicholson and I am joined by Lisa O'Malley senior director of product management, Google cloud, specializing in industry solutions. Lisa, welcome. Welcome to the >>Cube. Thank you, David. Great to be here. >>So let's, let's dive right into it. What makes an industry solution and what makes for a poser of an industry solution? >>Um, I think industry solutions are really all about driving business outcomes, that individual industries and individual companies within those industries really, really care about. Um, you know, uh, an alternative might be to take a horizontal solution, whether it's a CRM or an ERP and slap some industry labels on it and pose it as an industry solution. We like to do the hard engineering work, which is really going and figuring out what are the key outcomes that industries care about and spending time understanding the root causes and helping them with a Google cloud platform and all of the security data and analytics and AI capabilities that we have helping them really deeply solve those problems, um, at a, at a level that makes a difference and transforms their industry. >>So can you give us an example of something that's engineered in for a specific industry? When someone tells me they're engineering something in a, I think of a, I think of my car seat and if you're going to engineer in comfort, you better provide some controls for adjustability for me. So how, how do you strike that balance between hard engineered and sort of the bespoke services and customization that are always going to be necessary? >>Yeah, so clearly we don't want to create bespoke solutions for individual customers. We like to take, you know, industry wide problems and think about them a different way. You know, one example might be retail search. Um, you've probably all gone to a retailer, uh, typed items into the search bar and had an unsuccessful result. Um, and then maybe you've gone to Google and Googled it there and come back with the item in that retailer as one of the results. So search within individual retailers, websites historically has not been great. However, we've delivered a solution that brings Google quality search to an individual retailers, catalog and website. Um, and what we see is that this really helps them with what we call search abandonment. So it's like $300 billion a year is lost every year to people having unsuccessful, uh, searches on various websites. And so by, by delivering our product discovery solution, which incorporates, uh, retail that really solves an industry-wide problem. >>So Google is considered to be at the forefront of artificial intelligence. AI ML gets tossed around a lot, um, GCP, Google cloud, it's the real deal. Uh, how does, how does AI factor into some of these industry specific solutions? >>Uh, great question. Um, and not all of them are based on AI, but clearly, you know, when we think about Google, you think about, you know, data analytics, our ability to manipulate data and to apply AI and ML to real-world problems. Um, I'll give you an example of where we're using some of our core AI technology. And so that would be a product like visual inspection, where on a manufacturing line, you want to be able to, um, identify defects very effectively. Um, existing systems require a ton of training data. Whereas our machine learning allows us to deliver very high quality, like 10 X reduction in defects, um, with about, you know, 300 times less training data. And so that's where we've applied both our vision technology and our machine learning capabilities, uh, to come up with a great solution that fundamentally changes how inspection is done on manufacturing lines. >>So visual inspection inspection is one category, uh, recommendations is also often cited as another example. Uh, do, do you have any specific, uh, customer examples either with names or without are fine? Um, where, where recommendations come into play and, and, and, and what are some of the, the shades of difference when you talk about, um, the kind of intelligence that goes into visual inspection versus recommendations? Okay. >>So, uh, recommendations, one customer that I can talk about is Ikea. Um, they have implemented recommendations for a number of months at this stage, and they've seen an increase in click-through rate of about 30%. Um, we measure about 400% increase in, um, you know, relevant recommendations and overall that's, that's delivered at a 2% increase in average order value. Um, and so that's just one example of how recommendations and recommendations technology obviously has been with Google for a long time, when you think across search and YouTube, and a lot of the capabilities that are core to Google. And so being able to apply that more broadly to an industry circumstances is really, really powerful, um, on the visual inspection side, uh, Foxconn deployed this technology within their phone manufacturing process and that, um, uh, increased the accuracy of their defect detection by about 10 X. >>So, so you touched on this a little bit already, but if someone is trying to evaluate the difference between a real industry solution or industry cloud versus something that's just slapping a label on top of another label of, you know, for something that's generic, um, what are the sort of litmus tests that they should apply? What are the things that you look for? What are the criteria you think are important? >>Yeah. Um, I think it's really important to, you know, to really dig down, to identify as this just a horizontal solution, or has a company done the real hard engineering work to solve the problem? The way I think about it is I ask several questions, you know, do we think that these products have been engineered from the ground up to solve a specific industry problem? Are they just selling, you know, horizontal capabilities like CRM or ERP, um, and putting an industry label on it, have they actually being built for real world companies, you know, can they demo it in a real world example? Um, how much of it is, you know, original code code or is it, you know, just a reference architecture, how much, um, must a customer pay or work to actually implement that solution? Does it work out of the box or is there, you know, a big implementation with lots of system integrator, uh, spend required? And then I think lastly, and maybe most importantly is, is the, is the pricing connected to the value that you're bringing and is that pricing transparent? Um, and is it easy to understand for the customer and where the value, uh, where the value lies based on the pricing? >>What does the process look like, uh, within Google, within Google cloud, when you're considering what to categorize as an industry, what level of granularity do you get down to? How, how do you, how do you figure out what makes sense? Is it a level of effort in terms of engineering? Is it total addressable market? I'd love to, I'd love to be a fly on the wall. In some of those conversations, you think of the obvious categories, like financial services, retail, um, but give us an idea of what those conversations look like when you're trying to determine what constitutes an industry. >>So I think there's what constitutes an industry. And then there's what constitutes an industry that we want to build a specific productized solution for in terms of what constitutes an industry. I mean, I think those are pretty established in the market. They are things like financial services, healthcare, retail, and then there may be sub-verticals within those industries. So within financial services, you might have banking, retail banking, and commercial banking. You might have payments, you might have capital markets. Um, and I think those are, are, are pretty well established. I think you would expect the similar, the types of conversation that we have around what's the total addressable market. What's the level of technical sophistication within those industries. And then what are the problems that they're really seeking to solve? And do we have solutions that we think can make a difference there? >>So example of AI applied in an industry solution is the area around documents. Uh, and, uh, so, uh, again, if you can give us an example of, of >>Document AI, uh, how it's brought to bear, how it's different from making recommendations and product searches, and maybe a customer example, if you have one. Yeah. So, um, document, uh, AI is really, really phenomenal space in that the, the efficiency gains and operational efficiency, essentially around taking paper out of the process or taking people who are reviewing paper out of the process, uh, the opportunity is immense. You know, when you think about mortgage applications and the hundreds and hundreds of pages that we all have to sign up for, whether it's a refinance or a new buy, um, and then some poor person within the institution has to go and review all of that documentation. Um, we can turn that into, you know, something really phenomenal by using the document AI technology that Google has developed over time and training it on mortgage documentation. For example, um, Mr. Cooper uses our document AI technology, and they were able to, uh, increase their efficiency by about 400%, uh, in terms of their mortgage application process. So that's pretty phenomenal, but, you know, documents, don't just show up in mortgages nor do they just show up in financial services. There are documents all over the healthcare system. There are documents all over a public sector system. Um, and we believe that there's immense opportunity to take, uh, to take much of that paper and that re manual review of paper out of the system. >>So Lisa what's next, what kinds of industry solutions are you're working on that you can share a glimpse into? We're not asking for secrets that we can't, they can't be shared here just to be clear, but what's on the what's on the horizon. >>So I think there's some exciting things happening in our retail environment. Um, you can imagine that, you know, in the post COVID world, retail is very different from where it has been. And so the ability to bring your online and offline business and your consumer journeys through that business, um, really together is, is going to be super important. And so we're working on a lot of things there around understanding a full 360 view of your customer and how we might help them through their shopping journeys. Um, on, in, uh, in healthcare, we have, um, some phenomenal products in the market like our healthcare data engine, which helps take, um, sources of data from the many silos that exist across our healthcare system and bring them into one longitudinal view of the data. And so you can imagine that there would be many, um, diagnostic and operational opportunities to use that data in a much more efficient way than there are than the, than it's being used today, >>Specifically in healthcare, has that, have we seen a pivot, um, uh, because of the pandemic? >>So I don't know that it was specific to the pandemic. I think that the, um, the healthcare industry is, uh, is undergoing a lot of change, uh, in general across the board. And so the, the realization is that with, um, uh, I think the, what the, what the pandemic has done is it has accelerated some existing trends around movement towards telehealth, um, movement towards dispersed, um, healthcare within communities, as opposed to big centers. Uh, and so, you know, we find then that the, the data becomes even more fragmented and becomes more siloed and lots of, um, companies are solving small pieces of the problem. And so what Google would like to be able to do is to bring all of that data together, harmonize it, understanding all of the regulatory and compliance issues and opportunities that there are within the healthcare area and enable not just Google to build solutions on top of this data, but also to enable partners, um, and, uh, and, and providers our, uh, our payers themselves to, uh, to build solutions on top of the data. >>Lisa, it looks like it's time to wrap up. Do you have any final thoughts on, especially a, you know, where, where does AI progress us in industry solutions moving forward? >>So, you know, I think that AI is a tool that we should use wisely. I think it's something that we should understand how we, you know, understand that the, um, uh, our customer's deep needs, um, their business. I would come and sit there hoping to drive and where careful application of AI and machine learning can really benefit everybody in transforming their industries, whether that's through increasing top line revenue, taking cost out of the system, or generally being more efficient. >>Fantastic. Lisa, thank you for joining us for this cube conversation from the cube until next time. This is Dave Nicholson. >>Thank you, David. It was a pleasure. >>Thank you, Lisa.

(upbeat music) >> Hello, welcome to theCUBE's coverage of AnsibleFest 2021 virtual; I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE. We've got a great power panel here from Kyndryl whose great company has spun out of IBM. IT services great, technology, great conversation. Scott Kinane, director of worldwide automation, Anand Gopalakrishnan, chief automation architect, love the title, from Kyndryl, and Lisa Chavez, automations architect from Kyndryl. Guys, thanks for coming on. Appreciate the conversation. Looking forward to it. >> Thanks John glad to be here. >> Thank you. >> Scott, we covered you guys at IBM Think 2021, the new name, everything's happening. The extreme focus, the tactical execution has been pretty much on cloud, cloud native automation. This is the conversation. Knowing how much has gone behind the new name, can you just take a minute to share, give us an update on who Kyndryl is and how that's going? >> Yeah, I'd love to. You know, as Kyndryl, we really have the privilege of being responsible for designing, building, managing, and modernizing, you know, the mission critical systems that the world depends on every day, you know? When our thousands of clients span every industry and are leaders in their industries, right? You run the mission critical application environments for, you know, seven of the 10 largest airlines, 28 of the top 50 banks, right? All the largest mobile providers. You know, most of the largest retailers out there, and so on and so forth, right? That these companies really trust us to ensure that their business operations are really flawlessly being run. And operating our scale, and with the quality that these clients demand, is only possible by doing enterprise strength automation. Right? It's only, you know, it's not only about reactive automation, but using intelligent automation so we can predict and prevent issues before they really become a problem. Right? And because of our intelligent approach to automation, our clients have a... you know, they get tremendous business benefits for it, right? Retailers can open stores faster because systems and services are deployed more efficiently, right? Banks ATM's right, we all depend on those day to day, you know. They're working when you need them with our automation behind the scenes. You know, healthcare systems are more robust and responsive because we monitor for potential breaks and prevent them before they occur, right. Data processing systems, right. We hear about breaches all the time, right? Our clients are more secure because their environments are checked into, are checked to ensure that security exposures are quickly discovered and intermediated, right? So like automation, orchestration, intelligence, driving the world's digital economy, right. If you ask what Kyndryl is it, you know, that's our DNA. And it's really what we do well. >> Yeah, what's interesting, I want to get you to just quick followup on that because the name implies kind of a fresh perspective, working together. There's a lot of shared experiences and that. And the new normal now is honestly with hybrid and virtual continuing, people are doing things differently. And I would like you, if you don't mind taking a minute to share about the automation environment that you guys are operating in, because it's a different approach, but the game is still the same. Right? (John and Scott laugh) You got to make sure that these things are scaling and people are working again. So it's a combination of people and technology, in a new equation. Take a minute to talk about that. >> Yeah, I'd love to. You know, and you're right, right; the game is really changing. And automation is really ingrained into, needs to be ingrained in the way everybody's approaching what they do day to day. And if you talk about automation, in a way it's really included in what we do in our BAU delivery operations, right. And we do it at a tremendous scale, right. Where we have, you know, millions of infrastructure components and applications managed with automation, right. We're going to talk a little bit about CACF here in a few minutes, right? We've got over half a million devices themselves boarded onto that, and we're running over 11 million automations on a month to month basis through that, through the, the Red Hat technology that that's built on, right. We've got RPA as a key part of our environment, running millions of transactions through that on a yearly basis, right. And our automation's really covering the entire stack, right? It's not just about traditional IT, but we cover public cloud, private cloud, hybrid, you know, network components, applications and business processes, right? You talked about people, right. Help desk, right. We cover automation to automate a lot of the help desk processes are happening behind the scenes; security and resiliency. And it's really about driving all that through, you know, not just prescriptive reactions, but you know, us using our experience; insights we have from our data lakes, and intel, and AI ops technologies, and really making proactive based decisions based on that to really help drive the value back for our clients and to ensure that they're operating the way they need to. >> Yeah, that systems mindset, outcome driven focus is unique. That's awesome, congratulations. And onto Lisa, we're going to get into the architect side of it, because you're seeing more and more automation at the center of all the conversation. Reminds me of the machine learning AI vibe a couple of years ago. It's like, oh yeah, everything's MLAI. Automation, now everything's automation. Anand, your title is chief automation architect, love that title. What do you do? Like, I mean, you're architecting more automation, are you? Could you take a minute to explain your role? I love the title. And automation is really the technology driving a lot of the change. What do you do? >> Thank you, John. So let me first thank you for allowing us to come and speak to you and inform here about what we have done using Ansible and the other Red Hat products. So Ansible is one of the many products that we have used within Red Hat to support the solution that we have deployed, Paul, as our automation community framework, right? So, Scott touched upon it a few minutes earlier in terms of what are we doing for our clients? How do we make sure that our client's environment is secure? How do we make sure that our client environment is available all the time? So that... Are the infrastructure services that we're providing for our clients has a direct impact for their clients. So this is where the implementation of automation using the products that we have from Red Hat has helped us achieve. And we'll continue, we will continue to expand on supporting that, right. So let me break this into two parts. One is from an infrastructure standpoint, how we have implemented the solution and scaled it in such a way that we can support the number of devices that Scott was referring to earlier, And also the number of clients that we have touched on. And the second part, I'll let my colleague Lisa talk about the application architecture and the application scalability that we have, right? So firstly, we touch on infrastructure. So if you look at the way we needed to establish a capability to provide support for our clients, we wanted to make sure our infrastructure is available all the time, right? That's very important. So, before we even basically say, hey, we're going to make sure that our client's infrastructure is available all the time or our client's infrastructure is secure. And also we provide, we are able to provide the automation services for the infrastructure service that we're providing, right? So the stack that we built was to support our solution to be truly cloud native. So we began with of course, using OCP, which is the OpenShift cloud platform that we have. We relied on Red Hat CoreOS, which is basically enabling the automation platform to be deployed as a true cloud native application; that can be scalable to not just within one country, but multiple countries. Supporting data privacy that we need to have, supporting the compliance parts of that we need to support, and scalable to support the half a billion devices that we are supporting today. Right? So essentially, if you look at what we have, is a capability enabled on the entire stack of the Red Hat products that we have. And we are able to focus on ensuring that we are able to provide the automation by gaining efficiencies, right? If you look at a lot of automations that we have it's about biggest in complexities, right? So just think about the amount of risk that we are removing, and the quality that we are assuring from the qualified and standardized changes that we are basically implementing. Or, just, the amount of risk that we are able to eliminate by removing thousands of manual labor hours as well. So if you look at the automation need, it's not just about efficiency of the removal of labor hours, but efficiency of providing standards and efficiency of providing the capabilities that support our clients, who their needs; i.e. making sure that their infrastructure is compliant, their infrastructure is secure, and their infrastructure is highly available all the time. So it just basically making sure that we are able to address what we call as day one and day two activities, while we are able to support their day two infrastructure services activities; i.e. right from ground up. Building the server, which is provisioning, doing some provisioning activities, and deploying applications, and basically supporting the applications once they are deployed. So look at the scale, we have quite a bit there. >> So, you got the cloud native platform... >> Hey, careful Anand... >> You've got the cloud native platform, right? Let me just summarize that; cloud native platform for scale. So that means you're aligning, and targeting, and working with people who will want to do cloud native applications. >> Absolutely. >> And they want fast speed. (John laughing) >> Yes, and they want... >> They want everything to go faster. And by the way, the compliance piece is super important because if you can take that away from them, for waiting for the answers from the compliance department or security department, then that's the flywheel. Is that what you're getting at? This is the trend? >> Absolutely. So I'm going to turn it over to Lisa, who's going to help us. >> Yeah >> Go ahead Lisa >> Lisa, weigh in on the flywheel here. (Lisa chuckles) >> Yeah. Sure, sure. Yeah. So, so one of the things that CACF allows us to do, right, and it's again, as Anand described, `it's a very robust, powerful infrastructure. Supports many, many clients as we run a lot of applications through this infrastructure. And we do things like run security health checks on all our client's servers, and process the data real time and get that data out to our teams to address issues almost immediately, right? Scott touched on the fact that we are monitoring incident data real time and taking automated actions to correct problems in the environment. These are just really, really powerful capabilities that we're able to offer. We also have other use cases, we do a lot of identity management, primary and secondary controls through the CACF infrastructure. So we're able to have one point of connectivity into our client's environments. It's agentless, right, so you set up one connection to their servers and we can do a whole lot of management of various things through this single automation platform. So... >> So I, so that just to call this up, this is actually very powerful. And first of all, you mentioned the CACF that's the cloud automation community framework. >> Yes, correct. >> Right. >> Okay, so that's the platform. (Lisa chuckles) >> Yes >> Okay, so now the platforms' there; and now talk about the advantages. Because the power here is this truly highlights the transformation of DevOps, infrastructure as code, and microservices, coming around the corner where the developer; And I know developers want to build security into the applications from day one and take advantage of new services as they come online. That is now one. That puts the pressure on the old IT teams, the old security teams, who have been the NoOps. No, you can't do or slow, are slower. This is a trend, this is actually happening. And this culture shift is happening. Could you guys weigh in on that because this is a really important part of this story. >> Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, if you go back, circa 2019 or so, right. You know, we were back then and we were recognized as a leader in the automation space by a lot of the analysts. But we kind of look at that culture change you were just talking about and look at, you know, how do we become more agile? How do we go faster and what we're doing, right. And then I'm working with Jason McKerr and the Red Hat's Ansible automation platform team. We kind of define this platform that Lisa and Anand are talking to, right. Wrapping together, the OpenShift and Ansible, and 3scale with, you know, our services platform with Watson, and, and, you know, it really gave us the ability to leverage two of our core capabilities, right? The first, you know, in order for us to go faster, was our community model, right? Our community experience, right? So we've got a large delivery community that's out there really experts in a lot of, experts in a lot of technologies and industries. And, and by putting this in place, it gave us a way to really leverage them more in that community model development, so they could create, and we can harvest more of the automation playbooks. A lot of the different use cases that Lisa was talking incident remediation, patch scanning and deployment, security compliance, checking and enforcement. You know, basically anything that needs to get done as part of our what we'd call day one or day two operations we do for a client, right. And Steve's approach really to, to do a lot of high quality automation and get to the point where we could get thousands of automation modules that our clients could, that we could use as a part of our, a part of our services we delivered to the client environments. And, you know, that type of speed and agility, and being able to kind of leverage that was something that wasn't there previously. It also gave us a way to leverage, I guess they are one of our other core capabilities, right; which is a systems integrator, right? So we were able to focus more, by having that core engine in place, we were able to form focus more on our integrator experience and integrate, you know, IBM technologies, ServiceNow, ScienceLogic, VMware, and many more, right to the engine itself. So you know, basically, you know, all the applications out there that the, the clients then depend on for their business environments integrate directly with them; so we could more seamlessly bring the automation to their, to their environments, right. So it really gave us both the, the ability to change our culture, have a community model in place that we didn't before and really leveraged that services integrator expertise that we bring to the table, and act really fast on behalf of our clients out there. >> That's great stuff. Lisa, Lisa if you don't mind, could you share your thoughts on what's different about the community platform, and because automation has been around for a while, you do a couple of times, you do something repetitive, you automate it. Automate it out of way, and that's efficiency. Anand was the one saying that. >> Yeah but within Kyndryl, we have a very strong community and we have very strong security guidelines around what the community produces and what we deliver to our clients, right? So, we give our teams a lot of flexibility, but we also make sure that the content is very secure; we do a lot of testing. We have very strong security teams that do actual physical, penetration testing, right. They actually could try and come in and break things. So, you know, we really feel good about, you know, not only do we give our teams the flexibility, but we also, you know, make sure that it's safe for our clients. >> How's the relationship with Ansible evolving? Because as Ansible continues to do well with automation; automations now, like in automation as code, if things are discoverable, reuse is a big topic in the community model. How is Ansible factoring into your success? >> So... So firstly, I want to break this again into two discussions, right? One is the product itself. And second is how we have collaborated very closely with our colleagues at Red Hat, right? So essentially it's the feedback that we get from our clients, which is then fed into our solution, and then from our solution, we basically say, does it meet what our client's requirements are? If it doesn't, then we work with our Red Hat colleagues and say, hey, you know, we need some enhancements to be made. And we've been, we've been lucky enough to work with our colleagues at Red Hat, very closely, where we have been able to make some core product changes to support our clients requirements, right. And that's very, very important in terms of the collaboration from, with Red Hat, from a, you know, from a client standpoint. That's number one. Number two, from a product standpoint, Ansible, and the use of Ansible itself, right? Or Ansible Tower as the automation hub that we've been using. So we began this with a very base product capability, which was through what we call event automation. That was our first. Then we said, no, I think we can certainly look at expanding this to beyond event automation. I.e. can we do, when we say event that is very typically BAU activities, day two activities. But then we said, can we, can we do day one, day two infrastructure services automation? We said yes, why not? And then we worked again with our colleagues at Red Hat, identifying opportunities to improve on those. And we basically enhanced the framework to support those additional use cases that we basically identified. And as a matter of fact, we are continually looking at improving as well. In terms of not just hey, using the base product as is, but also receiving that feedback, giving that feedback to our Red Hat colleagues, and then implementing it as we go. So that's the, that's the approach we have taken. >> And what's the other half of the subject? Split it in two, What's the other half? >> Yep. But the other half is the actual implementation itself. So we like, which is basically expanding the use cases to go from beyond event automation to back from building the server, to also patching compliance. And now we're actually looking at even what we call service requests automation. By this is we basically want to be able to say hey user, we want a specific action to be performed on a particular end point. Can we take it to that next level as well? So that's where we are basically looking at as we progress. So we're not done. I would say we're still at the beginning of expansion. >> Yeah. >> Well no, I totally agree. I think it's early days, and I think a lot of it's, you mentioned day two operations; I love that. Day zero, day one, day two. Does anyone want to take a stab at defining what day two operations is? (John laughing) >> Do you want to go? >> Well, I got the experts here. It's good to get the definitions out there. >> Absolutely. >> 'Cause day one you're provisioned, right? >> Day zero, you provision. >> Day zero you provision. >> So day zero they look at... Yeah, so day zero you look at what is the infrastructure, what's the hardware that's there. And then day one you do what we call post provisioning activities, configuring everything that we need to do, like deploying the middleware applications, making sure the applications are configured properly, making sure that our, you know, the operating systems that we need to have. Whether it is a base operating system or operating systems for supporting the containers that are basically going to be enabled, all those will need to be looked at, right? So that's day one. Then day two is business as usual. >> Everything breaks on day two. (everyone laughs) >> Although I... >> Day one's fun, everything's good, we got everything up and running. We stood it up, and day two it breaks; And like, you know it's his fault. >> Exactly. >> Who's fault is it? (everyone laughing) So if you look at the approach that we took was, we said, let's start with the day two, then get to day zero, right. So which time where we have lots of lessons learned as we go through. And that's the expansion of how we are looking at Ansible. >> Well this is, all fun aside. First of all, it's all fun to have, to have to have jokes like that; but the reality is that the hardened operational discipline required to go beyond day one is critical, right? So this is where we start getting into the ops side where security downtime, disruptive operations, it's got to be programmable. And by the way, automation is in there too. So which means that it's not humans it's software running. Right? So, edge is going to complicate the hell out of that too. So, day two becomes super important from an architecture standpoint. You guys are the architects; what's the strategy, what should people be doing? What, what, how should, because day one is fun. You get it up, stand it up. But then it starts getting benefit; people start paying attention. >> Yep. _ And then you need to scale it and harden it. What's the strategy? What should people do? >> Yeah. I mean, if you think about automation, right? It's not... oh, I should, I meant to say John, you know, if it breaks, it's always Anand's fault, always Anand's. (John, Lisa, and Anand laugh) Don't ask any of that. >> I agree. >> Exactly. Thank you, Lisa. (everyone laughing) But, but automate, you know, you know, automation in a lot of conversations, people talk about it as gaining efficiency. And you know, it's not just that, you know, Automation is about de-risking complexities. Right? Think about all the risk that's removed, you know, and quality assured from the codified and standardized changes, right. Think about all the risk removed from eliminating, you know, tens of thousands of manual labor hours that have to be done. And those various things, right, that get done. So, for, we talk about day two operations, what we're doing, getting more automation in there, you know, our focus is definitely how do we de-risk changes? How do we make it safer for the clients? How do we make it more secure for the clients? And how do we ensure that their business operations, you know, are operating at their peak efficiencies? >> Yeah. And as I mentioned, we really go above and beyond on the security. We have much, much, much automated testing. And we also have the penetration testing I was talking about, so. We take security very seriously. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I think what's interesting about what you guys are doing with the platform is, it's cloud native. You start to see not just the replatforming, but the fun parts. When you start thinking about refactoring applications and benefits start to come out of nowhere; I go new benefits, new net, new use cases. So I think the outcomes side of this is interesting. A lot of people talk about, okay let's focus on the cost, but there's now net new positive, potentially revenue impact for your customers. This is kind of where the game changes a lot. What do you guys think about that; 'cuz that's, you know, you always have this argument with folks who are very cost centric, repatriated for getting off the cloud, or let's look at the net new opportunities that are going to be enabled by rapid programming, identifying new workflows, automating them, and creating value. >> Yeah. I mean, this is, you know, you're talking about the future where we're going, things that we do, you know, obviously getting more closer to, and being directly aligned with the DevSecOps teams that are out there. You talk about day two, you know, the closer we are to those guys, the better for, for us and everybody else that's going there, going forward. You know, and as you know, businesses keep returning to their pre COVID level levels, you know, automation gives the possibility and that ones that we were doing gives possibility for hopefully the clients to do more of that revenue capture, right. Being able to, you know, be ahead a little bit earlier, being able to stand up retail stores faster, right. Being able to deploy business-based applications that are, generating revenue for the clients at a you know, you know, at a moment's notice. Things like that are really possible with automation, and possible with the way we've done this solution with Red Hat and our clients, right. And I think we've got tons of benefits there. We're seeing, you know, we've got almost 900 clients supported on it today, right. You know Anand hit on, we've got half a million plus devices that are connected to this, right. And we're seeing things where, you know, the clients are, are, that are on this are, are getting results, you know, Something such as 61% of all tickets being resolved with no human intervention, you know, 84% of their entire service base server base is being checked automatically for security and compliance daily. And, and, you know, we could go through lots of those different metrics, but the, you know, the fact we can do that for our clients gives, gives through automation, gives, you know, our engineers, our delivery community, the ability to closely more closely work with the client to do those revenue generation activities; to help them capture more, more revenue in the market. >> We'll just put that in context, the scale and speed of what's happening with those numbers; I mean, it's significant. It's not like it's a small little test. That's like large scale. Scale's the advantage of cloud. Cloud is a scale game. The advantage is scaling and handling that scale. What's your thoughts? >> Absolutely. So if you basically, again, when we started this, we started small, right. In terms of the use cases that we wanted to tackle, the number of devices that we said we could basically handle, right. But then once we saw the benefits, the initial benefits of how quickly we were able to fix some of the problems from a day one day, two standpoint; or address some of the compliance and patching issues that we needed to look at, right. We, we quickly saw opportunities and said, how fast can we go? And in terms of, well, it's not just how fast can we go in terms of setting up our own infrastructure by you know, saying, hey, we are cloud native. I can just spin up another container and, you know, make sure that I can have another a hundred servers onboarded to support, or a hundred that network devices to be onboarded to support and so on, right. So it was also the scale from a automation standpoint, where we needed to make sure that our resources were skilled, to develop the automations as well. So the scale is not in terms of just the infrastructure, but the scale is also in terms of people that can do the automation in terms of, you know, providing the services for our infrastructure, right. So that's how we approached it. People and then an application and infrastructure. So that included providing education in, in Kyndryl today rose to about 11,000 people that we have trained on Ansible, the use of Ansible, and the use of Ansible Tower, and just even doing development of the playbooks using Ansible. That's a theme. if you look at, if you look at, it's not just infrastructure scale. It's infrastructure scale, application to be able to scale to that infrastructure, and people to be able to scale to what we're trying to do to support our clients as well. >> I think the people think is huge because you have a side benefit here as harmony, and the teams. You got cohesiveness that breeds peace, not war. (everyone laughs) >> Absolutely. >> That's between teams. >> If you look at the, you know, the words that we said; cloud automation, community framework. If you really break it down, right, it's a framework, but for who? It's for the community. >> Yeah. >> But, what are they doing? They're building automation. >> Yeah >> And that is what >> The Security team wants to, >> the cloud is about, right? >> The security team wants to, make the apps go faster, The apps want to be fast, they don't want to be waiting. Everything's about going faster; Pass, shoot, score, as they say in sports. But, but, okay, I love this conversation. I think it's going to be the beginning of a big wave. How do people engage and how do I get involved if I want to use the cloud automation community framework? What's the consumption side for, how do you guys push this out there, and how do people engage with you? >> Scott do you want to take that one? >> Yeah. I mean the, the easiest way is, you know, Kyndryl, you know, we're, we're out there. We're, coming forward with our company, a spin off from IBM, come engage with our sales reps, come engage with our, our outsourcing, our social risk management service delivery organizations, and, and, you know, happy to get them engaged, get them on board, and get them using the automation framework we've got in place. >> That's awesome. Great. Well, great stuff. Love the automation conversation. Automation and hybrid are the big, big trends that are never going to stop. It's going to be a hybrid world we live in. And the edge is exciting. It's got, you mentioned the edge; it's just more and more action. It's a distributed computing paradigm. I mean, it really the same. We've seen this movie before Anand. Yeah, in tech. So now it's automation. So great stuff. Lisa, thank you for coming on; I appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. >> Thank you, John. >> Thank you, John. We have coverage for Ansible Fest 2021. Power panel breaking down automation with Kyndryl. The importance of community, the importance of cohesiveness with teams, but more importantly, the outcome, the speed of development and security. I'm John for theCUBE, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>Hello Ron I'm john >>ferrier and I'm lisa martin and we're hosting the cube partnering with AWS on september 22nd at nine a.m. Pacific to highlight some of the fastest growing and most innovative startup companies. >>Lee says you know this is our third episode in this age of a startup showcase series. It's awesome exclusive content. Get access to the best people, the smartest people, the best companies in the entire ecosystem of W. S. DeVOPS data analytics, cloud management tools and more all driving innovation and scale, be >>part of the fastest growing community on the internet, discover some of our upcoming events in the calendar below and then watch some of the highlights, videos and content from our past events to uncover information. You won't want to miss >>check out the past speakers from the series, amazing names, ceos of top companies and experts go to AWS startups dot com and join us for the AWS startup showcase presented by the cube on september 22nd. Our next episode is nine a.m. Pacific standard time. We'll see you there. Mhm

(upbeat music) >> Hello, and welcome to today's session at the 2021, AWS Global Public Sector Partner Awards, for the award for the best, Think Big for Small Business Partner. I'm your host Natalie Erlich, and we are now joined by our very special guest, Lisa Brunet, a managing Partner and President of the DLZP Group. Welcome to today's session. Now, I'd love to talk with you about how you got to partner with AWS. >> Sure, I think Natalie, thank you so much for your time today. So we started a journey with AWS back in 2012, we ran into an AWS rep at another conference, and he was talking about how he would love to do some innovative technology, because one of my reps were actually wearing gold glass, and he's like, I need something creative, I need something different. Because right now AWS, Amazon is just known for selling online books, while the cloud is only known for storing photos. So we spent a little bit of time working with them, and we came up with this idea of doing creating the test drive, where people could actually go and try a different product, like we actually did PeopleSoft on AWS. So we were able to prove that large ERP applications could run on the cloud. And that was actually faster and more resilient than having it on premise, and from there, it's been a whirlwind journey with AWS. >> Now terrific, well, how does TBSP open doors for companies and help them understand all of the tools available to them through AWS, as well as APN. >> With the Think Big for Small Business program, what it does, it gives us the opportunity to play with the big guys. So a lot of small businesses have the capabilities, they're very agile, and they have the connections, they have the capabilities. But because of our size, we have limitations on getting the number of certifications, getting the network competencies. So with this program, it evens the playing field for everybody. So now I'm able to like... I've been turned away projects because of my size, because they're like, well you're not certified by AWS at this level. But now I'm at the same level, as some of my some of the larger primes, and I'm able to compete with them head to head now. >> So has this kind of like democratizing effect. >> Yes, it does. >> Terrific. Well, to expand a bit more on how, the Think Big program has helped us overcome other kind of obstacles. >> For us, a big obstacle was always with the competencies and the certifications. So before, we would never eligible to get a competency, even though we were the ones that proved that PeopleSoft could run on the clouds. So we had the competency for Oracle Applications, we had the competency from Microsoft, but we could never, we're never eligible to actually get the competency because we were not advanced partner. And then also with the training, we were always being hindered, because we couldn't get all the discounts available at a certain level for the trading, so we had to pay full retail price. Now we get a discount, so I can send everybody for training to make sure that everybody is up to date on their certifications. >> And how do you assess your experience as an AWS partner? >> I love it, I love being an AWS partner, and that's I think what really makes the difference is the employees at AWS, they stand by us for everything. We know, of course we do give a lot of benefits to them, but anytime I have a need, I have everybody's number, I can reach out to anybody on their team and say, I need assistance with this, I'm looking to try to accomplish this, and they'll do anything they can to help us. >> And do you have any advice for other companies who might be interested in moving in that direction as well. >> For any small business, I think that Think Big for Small Business program is a great idea, just as long as you're willing to put the hard work in, and you can prove to AWS that you're willing to work hard, they'll reciprocate and work with you to create this great, to make you a great partner. >> And I'd love to hear more about your company, DLZP Group, tell us about your core market. >> So we actually were split between three different main markets. We try to be equal between public sector, private sector and federal. We are just starting our federal journey. We recently became AA certified, so we're looking to expand in the federal journey, but for us, we try to make sure that we are, we don't have too strong, we don't have more than like 33% of our income coming from any one sector, just because if there's a crisis like with the federal, when they shut down for six months, I don't want to have to layoff my employees, I value my employees too much have to say, I'm sorry, I have to lay you off. So we made sure we're resilient, and we're able to handle any customer at any given time. >> Well, let's talk about resilience, I mean, how do you ensure that you're resilient? Obviously, you've had some really tough time, in the last year or so with a pandemic, I mean, what's your advice for companies that are looking to become even more resilient in the years ahead? >> For us, I think a big thing is we've always worked hard to make sure that we offer a quality product for our customers. So that really helped us on the downtime's. When everybody was struggling, keep the doors open, our customers stood by us, because we've had a proven track record to make sure that we offer them the best solution, were there for them when they need us. So they came to rely on us and they would use this with during the past year during the pandemic. >> And if you could outline just in further detail your business model for our viewers. >> So we actually are 100% remote, and I have staff around the world. We purposely, strategically, like have everybody around the world, because some of our customers are global. We have to offer 24/7 support for them, especially nowadays. But another part was because of disaster recovery. I'm based in Houston, Texas. So we're known for getting hurricanes, that means sometimes I can be without power for three weeks. But I don't want that to affect my customers, I don't want them to feel that they can't come to us, but knowing that if a hurricane comes through, I might know my employees are going to be able to work. So we made sure that we have a great disaster recovery plan, we have where no matter what happens, manmade or natural disaster, we're able to support our customers, without any with any without a pause. And then we also make sure that all of our employees, they have a quality work life balance, and I think that also helps because that shows the clients, that we value our employees, and it makes them want to work with us more, because our employees are happy, they're happy to work with us, because they know that well (crackling drowns out speaker) >> And describe to us in greater detail, the core technology and its key benefits. >> Well, a lot we do is around AWS. So, when we first started with them, as I mentioned, we started with them with the test drive and ERP applications, but then we expanded our services, we started working with serverless, when we first heard about serverless, we were like this is a game changer. We can do almost anything on serverless and save so much money. So we years ago, we went and built our website, so it's 100% serverless. So it costs us a couple pennies a month to run, versus if you think about a traditional website, that's a couple hundred dollars a month to run, and then we started playing with machine learning. So we're now developing internal projects, where we're using machine learning for a number of applications, and we're going to keep expanding, where we're going to have a full suite of applications to give to our customers that will be run at 100% serverless using machine learning. >> Yeah, really terrific. What are your goals for the next year? What is your vision for 2021? >> My goal is to do a little bit more than federal, we're actually expanding to Canada as well. So we have officially launched there, we have employees in Canada that are working in different areas in different provinces and with the federal government to try to help AWS grow there. >> Terrific, and I thought it was just so fascinating, how you're mitigating disaster, and you know, really pushing your business forward, you know, thinking geographically, and that's something that we kind of had to all figured out with a pandemic. So in a way your business has been like a bit of step ahead of the others, and what other ways are you trying to kind of be a step ahead of the curve from the competition. >> So we're looking to stay ahead of the curve by making sure we have the right resources in place, so we do a lot, making sure that when we bring somebody on, we make sure that they're aware that this is a team based company, you're not going to be working individually on one project. We were very big on spec, so we're always making sure that, no matter what level you come in, even if you're just an intern here for the summer, you're running a project, you're getting that real world experience, you're going to even have times where I'm reporting to you, when you have to make sure I'm a accountable for the work. And that helps also build respect amongst the peers, because they know what it takes to run a project, and they're going to make sure that they do a good job, because nobody wants to see their peers if you fail. >> Yeah, well excellent insights, I agree with you. Lisa Brunet, a managing partner and president of the DLZP Group. That's all for this session, I'm your host Natalie Erlich, thank you so much for watching. (upbeat music)

>>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of IBM. Think 20, 21 brought to you by IBM, >>Everybody welcome back to IBM. Think 2021. My name is Dave Vellante and you're watching the cubes continuous coverage of this event. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise, but doing that virtually for the better part of a 14 months. Now we're going to get deeper into application modernization. Marie ASHRAE is here. She's the director of marketing at mainline information systems and David burrows. Burrows is an account executive at mainline folks. Welcome to the cube. Great to have you on today. >>Thank you. Nice to be here >>To start with with mainline. Uh, people might not be familiar with, with mainline, but you've transformed over the past five years. I wonder if you could describe that for our audience? >>Yes, we have. Indeed. We have, um, mainline, um, you know, it's a 30 plus year company and, um, and for 30 odd years we had really been focused a lot in hardware, right? Hardware reselling. That's what the market needed. That's what we did a lot of. But then in the past, I would say five to eight years, maybe even 10 years, we started on this transformation project, um, for the business where we started transforming ourselves into really systems integrators versus just hardware reseller. So now we can go to a client and we can say, Hey, now what are you struggling with? Right? What are your business challenges? And then from there, we can integrate a solution that might be hardware. It might be software, it might be some services, it could be managed services. It could be staffing services, um, could be a number of different things and put all that together and then deliver a complete solution that helps them with their, their business requirements. Okay, >>David, that, that must've been an interesting transition because what Marie just described is it used to be every opportunity was a nail and whatever box you were selling was the hammer. And, and that, that has changed dramatically. Of course. So you, you, I wonder what that discussion was like with, with, with clients. You must have heard that early on and said, Oh, this cloud thing is happening. The world is changing. We've got to change too. I wonder if you could chime in on that transformation. >>Yes. That's our, uh, as our clients have been changing, what we've been doing is, uh, you know, making sure that we fully understand what's available not only in the marketplace, but the competition and what, what each industry segment, for example, baking versus insurance versus a utility maybe facing, uh, during this this time. And so, you know, being able to transform as a, as an accounting dedicated, we've been able to, uh, indicate and so provide solutions as Marie indicated. Um, the large focus over the last five years has been networking and security as we move, uh, more compute to the edge, close to the edge. Security has been predominant. Uh, and so, you know, hardware is really almost commoditized through and through and with the exception of, you know, IBM, Z and, and power. Uh, and so, you know, we've had to really, uh, sellers, you know, focus on what customers are dealing with and how they transition. Uh, and as we, uh, you know, through COVID, it's actually been a bigger challenge, a bigger focus on security. And I think we'll talk about that a little bit later in more detail >>Let's, let's, let's do that now. So, so Marie, maybe at a high level, you could talk about those challenges that your clients are facing. And then we can sort of double click on how that was exacerbated by, by COVID. And I'm really interested in your perspectives on sort of the post isolation economy and how those challenges are going to shift, but, but maybe, maybe kick us off at the high level if you could. >>Sure. So, um, so, you know, people, companies were moving toward, um, uh, th the whole digital transformation, right? Probably for the past three to four years, we started seeing more and more that's constantly, everybody sees those buzz words all the time. Um, so clients were shifting in that direction and we were shifting to try to satisfy them with their needs with those solutions, but then came COVID and all of a sudden, right. What people were, were planning on doing for the next, let's say five years. I mean, most of the iOS were saying, yeah, we're going to get there in five years. Well, that had to happen. Right. It had to have brakes went on and it had to happen instantaneously. So that put a big change in focus, a big change in direction for not only our clients. Right. But for our own folks, folks like David, who are trying to service these clients with having to bring them these solutions that we're going to solve their digital business needs, um, today and not five years from now. >>Yeah. So David let's, let's talk about that. I mean, what Marie just described, I call it the forced March to digital, because as Maria, as you were saying, people were on a digital transformation, but there was a little bit of complacency and okay, we'll get there. We're really busy doing some other stuff. And then all of a sudden you've probably seen the meme of the COVID wrecking ball coming, coming into the building, the office building and saying, you know, well, we're doing fine. And all of a sudden, boom, the forest COVID comes in. So, so, so, so how did that affect your clients and how did you respond? I mean, they're asking for VDI and get me some laptops, I need end point security. And so how did that affect the, the application modernization efforts and David, maybe you could comment on that. >>So I, I think for, for me, the biggest challenge was all business, the competition within business to survive COVID, uh, you know, they had to put on first thing was how do we get our, our customer, uh, supported correctly and how do we get our workers supportive, working at home? So the very first thing we did over the initial six months was most companies had to transform immediately within the first 30 to 90 days to allow their workforce to work from home. Uh, that happened throughout my, my customer base, uh, both in Southern California, uh, was customers really focused on, uh, how do we business process, how do we compete in this marketplace and get return on investment speed, you know, time to value or what we invest in these, uh, COVID times so that we can compete with other, uh, businesses that are trying to stay alive, uh, through this transition. And, and now, you know, we're seeing on, uh, on the backend, uh, you know, that time, the value in terms of investment is even more important because some businesses have been significantly impacted from not only cashflow, uh, but you know, certainly in terms of profitability during this time >>Makes sense. And so I'm read, so we were talking earlier about the, sort of the initial path to digital transformation, and I wonder if that's gotta be course corrected. I would think we were forced in to compress, you know, the digital reality, uh, and, and I guess in a way that's good. Uh, but in a way it was, we probably made a lot of mistakes. It was a bit of a Petri dish. So now as we begin to knock on exit COVID, you would think those, those imperatives, uh, adjust and they start to become aligned. What's your take on that, especially as it relates to application and infrastructure modernization. >>Um, so I would agree with that. I think that there's definitely has to be a little bit of a, of a real alignment happening. And I know recently I read that, um, 20, 21 is expected to be a very, um, large year in it spend because all of those, um, initiatives that CEOs and others were going after pre COVID kind of got put on hold, right. So they could then go focus on all of those digital needs that were needed, like, you know, the CDI, you know, work at home, all the security stuff for that. So I think we're going to see, I'm thinking, we're going to see a shift again now, and maybe businesses are going to go back and try to pick up where they were, uh, prior to COVID and now start working on more of really of the application modernization, um, initiatives that were in mind. And I know we wanted to talk about that as well, because David's been working on quite a bit of application modernization with, um, a few of his clients, um, as we're seeing again, businesses change. Um, and, and I don't know that all of that changes because of COVID. I think all of that change was for their competitiveness, um, to get there anyway. So I think that's going to start, as you said before, Dave, I think it's going to start now having to >>Kind of rethink, >>It reminds me of traffic on the David, if you've ever been to driving in, in London when it's slingshots, right. It's that's what's COVID was like Murray you're absolutely right. Last year it spend was down four to 5% this year. I mean, our prediction is going to be in the six to 7% range, which, which kind of aligns with where Gartner and IDC are based on our surveys. But, you know, back in, in April, like I think the 16th of April, it was a headline in the wall street journal that the China grew 18% GDP in the quarter. So it's very hard to predict, but, but it's coming back, you know, we, we can see that David and so, so spending is really gonna accelerate. There's probably some pent-up demand for that application modernization. Maybe it's been a little bit, uh, neglected as we've done, as Maria was saying. And you were saying the work from home. So maybe you could talk a little bit more about the modernization aspects and maybe I'm really interested in the things that you guys deliver in your portfolio with IBM. >>Sure. Uh, so what I have customers in multiple phases within this, uh, current digital transformation, their customer, uh, moving everything to next gen, uh, development, which is, uh, only containerized code, uh, being able to, you know, swiftly go through their development tests, uh, and, uh, hybrid cloud environments where they're, um, they haven't made an investment yet, but they're sampling what it might be like to, uh, change into that world. And then there are customers are still in the, uh, typical environment, uh, the traditional environment, and are looking at what the solutions, as far as packages are available for them moving forward. So they can kind of skip over, uh, any kind of development and being able to, uh, leverage, uh, what I call them next, gen development or next gen systems, uh, immediately, as you know, you asked, you know, what are the, what are the systems that are available? IBM's cloud pack, uh, solution set. It provides a portfolio of capabilities, uh, both in the application, suite, database, suite security. Uh, I have customers today leveraging that. Uh, and, and so that is one of the first pieces, uh, that, that customers I see who are on the leading edge, or are also kind of trailing, are looking at, uh, these cloud packs to be able to, uh, uh, go time to market and time to value, uh, quickly. >>Yeah. So when I look at your portfolio, I just sort of scan the web. Uh, David just mentioned Marie cloud pack. I mean, we're talking software here. You guys do have a lot of expertise in ZZ Linux power, you mentioned is not a commodity. And it's one of the few pieces of hardware that, and Z they're not a commodity storage. I would think business resiliency fits in there beyond disaster recovery, your red hat, we're talking, you know, things like open OpenShift and Ansible for automation. So these are, these are not your grandfather's main line. These are toolkits are a piece of, you know, parts of the tool bag that you bring to bear to focus on on client outcomes and solutions is, am I getting that right? >>Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, and again, right, that goes back to the original opening comment about how we've transformed as a business, right. To become, uh, an integrator, um, putting all of these different pieces together. I mean, I know that, um, something that, that David recently had worked on, Oh my goodness. If you would have looked at the list of pieces of elements to that solution, um, it was really quite incredible between, um, open source stuff, you know, and a bunch of IBM stuff. Um, yes, it was some storage and yeah, there was some power, um, yes, there was red hat. Right. But then there was other stuff there was VMware. Um, there was, um, some things that, um, I can't even remember now all the names to all the components, but it was, it was a laundry list. Right. And so that's where though mainline stepped in and put the pieces together, uh, for the customer so that the customer then can get done what they needed to get done, which was, which was really solve their business problem, which was trying to become more competitive in their market space. >>Okay, David, so when Maria was sustained was basically, my takeaways is as a system integrator, you've got all these piece parts with these technologies, you've got virtualization, you've got automation, you've got containers and so forth. Uh, and yes, there's there's hardware, but there's this integration that has to occur. And your job is to abstract that complexity, that underlying complexity away so that the customers can focus on the outcome. Maybe you could talk about that and how you do that. >>Sure. I'll give you a good example of a recent customer that we work with who was, uh, basically, I mean, we consider an enterprise data platform that, that, uh, was going to rework their entire data warehouse into something that had governance surrounding it, uh, where they could validate all the data that was coming into their warehouse. And so we underpinned that, uh, with an infrastructure of power, uh, we're running, uh, obviously IBM, uh, uh, pack for data, uh, with DB two warehouse. Uh, we use a combination of that with, uh, Cloudera data flow through IBM, uh, with the streaming and, uh, the governance, uh, IBM governance catalog piece, which is, uh, lots of knowledge catalog. So, uh, we've been able to take not only what their base requirements were, but all the microservices that are packaged in with cloud pack, uh, all running on OpenShift, uh, which was a great acquisition that IBM did last year. And, uh, then, uh, they also required other microservices outside, uh, to support that environment and paint a picture for >>Us as to what the future looks like. Uh, it's, it's much different than the past 30 years, uh, and bring us home please >>Or so, um, I think the future for us is to continue to, um, to find all of the solutions, um, that will, that will help our customers, um, you know, get to their next steps. Right. And, and there's a lot, as you know, there's lots of solutions out there. There's lots of new companies that are popping up all the time. Um, you know, inherently, you know, mainline is an IBM partner. We've been an IBM partner for 30 plus years since our inception. And that's the base of our business is, is IBM. But, but there are other requirements that are needed by, by businesses, by our customers. And that's where we, we reach out and partner up. We probably have gone my goodness, 200 plus partnerships with various companies, various technology companies that we can then, um, lean on and pull in those ancillary solutions, um, to, to, to complete that, that solution for the customer. >>So I think we're going to continue going down that path. We're going to continue making sure that we're partnered with the, um, the, the leading technology companies. So we can build that IBM solution for our customer and, and bolt on the other pieces that are needed. Uh, we're going to continue to grow and enhance our services business because we've got quite a large services business, whether it's implementation services, uh, we do managed services. We have staffing services. I think you're going to see if we're still going to continue to, to grow that business, because that is a piece where companies, you know, they don't want to worry about running all of that stuff, right. They want to know that their system's going to be running 24 seven. And if there is a bump or a burp or something happens, Hey, they could pick up the phone, they can call mainline. We can help them get things corrected. So I think we're going to still see a lot of that going on as well, um, within our, our, our offerings. >>Excellent. Well, congratulations for making it through that. Not a whole lot, not, not every, uh, hardware seller reseller made it through and you guys transformed. It's a, it's an inspiring story. Maria, David, thanks so much for coming on the cube. Thank you. Thank you very much. You're really welcome. And thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Volante in our continuous coverage and the cube of IBM think 20, 21. Keep it right there.

>>Welcome lisa and thank you for being here with us today >>Antonio It's wonderful to be here with you as always. And congratulations on your launch. Very, very exciting for you. >>Well, thank you lisa and uh, we love this partnership and especially our friendship, which has been very special for me for many, many years that we have worked together, but I wanted to have a conversation with you today and obviously digital transformation is a key topic. So we know the next wave for digital transformation is here being driven by massive amounts of data and increasingly distributed world and a new set of data intensive workloads. So how do you see a lot of optimization playing a role in addressing these new requirements? >>Yeah, absolutely Antonio. And I think, you know, if you look at the depth of our partnership over the last four or five years, it's really about bringing the best to our customers. And the truth is we're in this compute mega cycle right now. So it's amazing. Um you know, when I know when you talk to customers, when we talk to customers, they all need to do more and frankly, computers becoming quite specialized. So whether, you know, you're talking about large enterprises, um, or you're talking about research institutions trying to get to the next phase of compute so that workload optimization that we're able to do with our processors, your system design and then working closely with our software partners is really the next wave of this, this compute cycle. >>So thanks lisa you talk about mega cycle. So, I want to make sure we take a moment to celebrate The launch of our new generation 10 plus compute products with the latest announcement. Hp now has the broadest a nd server portfolio in the industry spanning from the edge to exa scale. How important is this partnership and the portfolio for our customers? >>Well, um Antonio I'm so excited, first of all, congratulations on your 19 world records with Milan and gen 10 plus. It really is building on sort of our, this is our third generation of partnership with Epic. And you know, you were with me right at the very beginning actually, if you recall you joined us in Austin for our first launch of Epic, you know, four years ago and I think what we've created now is just an incredible portfolio that really does go across. You know, all of the verticals that are required. We've always talked about, how do we customize and make things easier for our customers to use together? And so very excited about your portfolio, very excited about our partnership and more importantly, what we can do for our joint customers. >>It's amazing to see 19 world records. I think I'm really proud of the work our joint team do every generation, raising the bar. And that's where, you know, we, we think we have a shared goal of ensuring our customers get the solution, the services they need any way they want it. And one way we are addressing that need is by offering what we call as a service delivered to HP Green Lake. So let me ask a question, What feedback are you hearing from your customers with respect to choice, meaning consuming as a service? This new solutions? >>Yeah, great point. I think, first of all, you know, HP Green Lake is very, very impressive. So, congratulations to really having that solution. And I think we're hearing the same thing from customers and you know, the truth is, um, the computer infrastructure is getting more complex and everyone wants to be able to deploy, sort of the right compute at the right price point um you know, in in terms of also accelerating um time to deployment with the right security with the right quality. And I think these as a service offerings are going to become more and more important um as we go forward um in the compute capabilities and you know, Green Lake is a leadership product offering and we're very very pleased and honored to be part of it. >>Okay. Yeah. We feel uh lisa we are ahead of the competition and um you know, you think about some of our competitors is not coming with their own offerings, but I think the ability to drive joint innovation is what really differentiates us and that's why we value the partnership and what we have been doing together on given the customer's choice. Finally, you know, I know you and I above incredibly excited about the joint work with you and with the U. S. Department of Energy, the Oak Ridge National Laboratory we think about large data sets and you know and the complexity of the analytics we're running but we both are going to deliver the world first exa scale system. Which is remarkable to me. So what this milestone means to you and what type of impact do you think it will >>make? Yes Antonio I think our work with Oak Ridge National Labs and HP is just really pushing the envelope on what can be done with computing. And if you think about the science that we're going to be able to enable with the first extra scale machine, I would say there's a tremendous amount of innovation that has already gone in to the machine and we're so excited about delivering it together with HP. And you know we also think that the supercomputing technology that we're developing at this broad scale will end up being very, very important for enterprise computer as well. And so it's really an opportunity to kind of take that bleeding edge and really deploy it over the next few years. So super excited about it. I think you and I have a lot to do over the next few months here, but it's an example of the great partnership and and how much we're able to do when we put our teams together, um, to really create that innovation. >>I couldn't agree more. I mean, this is an incredible milestone for for us, for our industry and honestly for the country in many ways. And we have many, many people working 24 by seven to deliver against this mission. And it's going to change the future of compute no question about it. Um, and then honestly put it to work where we needed the most to advance life science to find cures, to improve the way people live and work, lisa, thank you again for joining us today and thank you more most importantly for the incredible partnership and, and the friendship. I really enjoy working with you and your team and together, I think we can change this industry once again. So thanks for your time today. >>Thank you so much Antonio and congratulations again to you and the entire HPI team for just a fantastic portfolio launch. >>Thank you.

>> From around the globe, it's the cube, with digital coverage of IBM think 2021 brought to you by IBM. >> Hi everybody, Welcome back to IBM Think 2021. My name is Dave Vellante and you're watching the cubes continuous coverage of this event. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise but doing that virtually for the better part of a 14 months now, we're going to get deeper into application modernization. Marie Ashway is here. She's the director of marketing at Mainline Information Systems and David burrows. Burrows is an account executive at Mainline folks. Welcome to the cube, great to have you on today. >> Thank you. Nice to be here. >> Marie, I want to start with, with Mainline. A lot of people might not be familiar with Mainline but you've transformed over the past five years. I wonder if you could describe that for our audience? >> Yes, we have, indeed we have, Mainline, you know is a 30 plus year company and, and for 30 odd years we had really been focused a lot in hardware, right? Hardware reselling. That's what the market needed. That's what we did a lot of. But then in the past I would say five to eight years, maybe even 10 years we started on this transformation project for the business where we started transforming ourselves into really systems integrators versus just hardware reseller. So now we can go to a client and we can say, Hey now what are you struggling with? Right? What are your business challenges? And then from there we can integrate a solution that might be hardware. It might be software, it might be some services it could be managed services. It could be staffing services could be a number of different things and put all that together and then deliver a complete solution that helps them with their, their business requirements. >> Well, David, that that must've been an interesting transition because what Marie just described as it used to be every opportunity was a nail and whatever box you were selling was the hammer. And that, that has changed dramatically. Of course. So you, you, I wonder what that discussion was like with, with, with clients. You must have heard that early on and said, Uh-Oh this cloud thing is happening. The world is changing. We've got to change too. I wonder if you could chime in on that transformation. >> Yes. That's our, as our clients have been changing what we've been doing is, you know, making sure that we fully understand what's available, not only in the marketplace, but the competition. What, what each industry segment, for example, banking versus insurance versus a utility maybe facing during this this time. And so, you know, being able to transform as a as an accounting dedicated, we've been able to indicate. And so provide solutions as Marie indicated, the large focus over the last five years has been networking and security. As we move more compute to the edge, close to the edge security has been predominant. And so, you know, hardware is really almost commoditized through and through and with the exception of, you know IBM, Z and, and power. And so, you know, we've had to really sellers, you know focus on what customers are dealing with and how they transition. And as we, you know, through COVID, it's actually been a bigger challenge, a bigger focus on security. And I think we'll talk about that a little bit later in more detail >> Let's, let's, let's do that now. So, so Marie, maybe at a high level, you could talk about those challenges that your clients are facing. And then we can sort of double click on how that was exacerbated by, by COVID. And I'm really interested in your perspectives on sort of the post isolation economy and how those challenges are going to shift, but, but maybe maybe kick us off at the high level if you could. >> Sure. So, so, you know, people, companies were moving toward the the whole digital transformation, right? Probably for the past three to four years we started seeing more and more that constantly everybody sees those buzzwords all the time. So clients were shifting in that direction and we were shifting to try to satisfy them with their needs with those solutions but then came COVID and all of a sudden, right. What people were, were planning on doing for the next, let's say five years. I mean, most of the CEO's were saying, yeah we're going to get there in five years. Well, that had to happen. Right. It had to have brakes went on and it had to happen instantaneously. So that put a big change in focus a big change in direction for not only our clients. Right. But for our own folks, folks like David who are trying to service these clients with having to bring them these solutions that we're going to solve their digital business needs today and not five years from now. >> Yeah. So David let's, let's talk about that. I mean, what Marie just described I call it the forced march to digital, because as Marie as you were saying, people were on a digital transformation but there was a little bit of complacency and okay, we'll get there. We're really busy doing some other stuff. And then all of a sudden you've probably seen the meme of the COVID wrecking ball coming, coming into the building the office building and saying, you know, you know, well we're doing fine and all of a sudden, boom the forced COVID comes in. So, so, so so how did that affect your clients and how did you respond? I mean, they're asking for VDI and get me some laptops, I need end point security. And so how did that affect the the application modernization efforts and David maybe you could comment on that. >> So I, I think for, for me, the biggest challenge was all business, the competition within business to survive COVID, you know, they had to put on first thing was how do we get our, our customer supported correctly? And how do we get our workers supported working at home? So the very first thing we did over the initial six months was most companies had to transform immediately within the first 30 to 90 days to allow their workforce to work from home. That happened throughout my, my customer base, both in Southern California, was customers really focused on how do we do business process? How do we compete in this marketplace and get return on investment speed, you know, time to value or what we invest in these COVID times so that we can compete with other businesses that are trying to stay alive through this transition. And, and now, you know, we're seeing on the, on the back end you know, that time, the value in terms of investment is even more important because some businesses have been significantly impacted from knowing cashflow, but you know, certainly in terms of profitability during this time. >> Makes sense. And so, Marie, so we were talking earlier about the sort of the initial path to digital transformation. And I wonder if that's got to be course corrected. I would think we were forced in to compress, you know the digital reality and, and I guess in a way that's good but in a way it was, we probably made a lot of mistakes. It was a bit of a Petri dish. So now as we begin to ,knock on, exit COVID you would think those those imperatives adjust and they start to become aligned. What's your take on that, especially as it relates to application and infrastructure modernization. >> So I would agree with that. I think that there's definitely has to be a little bit of a of a realignment happening. And I know recently I read that 2021 is expected to be a very large year in IT spend because all of those initiatives that CEOs and others were going after pre COVID kind of got put on hold, right. So they could then go focus on all of those digital means that were needed. Like, you know, the CDI, you know, work at home all the security stuff for that. So I think we're going to see, I'm thinking, we're going to see a shift again now, and maybe businesses are going to go back and try to pick up where they were prior to COVID and now start working on more of really of the application modernization initiatives that were in mind. And I know we wanted to talk about that as well because David's been working on quite a bit of application modernization with a few of his clients as we're seeing again, businesses change. And, and I don't know that all of that changes because of COVID. I think all of that change was for their competitiveness, to get there anyway. So I think that's going to start, as you said before, David I think it's going to start now having to kind of rethink up >> It reminds me of traffic on the M four David have you ever been to driving in in London when it's slingshots? Right? It's that's what's COVID was like Marie, you're absolutely right. Last year IT spend was down 4 to 5% this year. I mean, our prediction is it's going to be in the 6 to 7% range, which, which, which kind of aligns with where Gartner and IDC are based on our surveys. But, you know, back in, in April like I think the 16th of April it was a headline of wall street journal that the China grew 18% GDP in the quarter. So it's very hard to predict, but, but it's coming back you know, we can see that David and so so spending is really going to accelerate. There's probably some pent-up demand for that application modernization. Maybe it's been a little bit neglected as we've done as Maria was saying. And you were saying that work from home. So maybe you could talk a little bit more about the modernization aspects and maybe I'm really interested in the things that you guys deliver in your portfolio with IBM. >> Sure. So what I have customers in multiple phases within this current digital transformation there are customers moving everything to the next gen development which is a fully containerized code. Being able to, you know swiftly go through their development tests and hybrid cloud environments where they're they haven't made an investment yet but they're sampling what it might be like to change into that world. And then there are customers are still in the typical environment, the traditional environment and are looking at what the solutions as far as packages are available for them moving forward. So they can kind of skip over any kind of development and being able to leverage what I call next gen development or next gen systems immediately as you know, you ask, you know, what are the what are the systems that are available? IBM's cloud pack solution set. It provides a portfolio of capabilities both in the application suite, database suite, security. I have customers today leveraging that. And, and so that is one of the first pieces that that customers I see who are on the leading edge or are also kind of trailing, are looking at these cloud bags to be able to go time to market and time to value quickly. >> Yeah. So when I look at your portfolio I just sort of scan the web. David just mentioned Marie, cloud pack. I mean, we're talking software here. You guys do have a lot of expertise in Z, Z Linux, Power. You mentioned is not a commodity. And it's one of the few pieces of hardware that and Z they're not a commodity. Storage, I would think business resiliency fits in there beyond disaster recovery. You Red Hat, we're talking, you know, things like open open shift and Ansible for automation. So these are, these are not your grandfather's main line. These are toolkits are a piece of, you know, parts of the tool bag that you bring to bear to focus on on client outcomes and solutions is am I getting that right? >> Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And again, right, that goes back to the original opening comment about how we've transformed as a business, right. To become an integrator putting all of these different pieces together. I mean, I know that something that that David recently had worked on, Oh my goodness. If you would have looked at the list of pieces of elements to that solution, it was really quite incredible between open source stuff, you know and a bunch of IBM stuff. Yes. It was some storage and yeah, there was some power. Yes. There was Red Hat. Right. But then there was other stuff, there was VMware there was some things that I can't even remember now all the names to all the components, but it was it was a laundry list. Right. And so that's where though Mainline stepped in and put the pieces together for the customer so that the customer then can get done what they needed to get done, which was which was really solve their business problem which was trying to become more competitive in their market space. >> Okay, David, so when Marie was just staying was basically my takeaway is, is this a system integrator? You've got all these piece parts with these technologies you've got virtualization, you've got automation you've got containers and so forth. And yes, there's there's hardware but there's this integration that has to occur. And your job is to abstract that complexity that underlying complexity away so that the customers can focus on the outcome. Maybe you could talk about that and how you do that. >> Sure. I'll, I'll give you a good example of a recent customer that we work with, who was basically implying, we consider an enterprise data platform that, that was going to rework their entire data warehouse into something that had governance surrounding it where they could validate all the data that was coming into their warehouse. And so we underpinned that with an infrastructure of power. We're running, obviously IBM pack for data with DB two warehouse. We use a combination of that with five-year data flow through IBM with the streaming and the governance IBM governance catalog piece, which is lots of knowledge catalog. So we've been able to take not only what their base requirements were, but all the microservices that are packaged in with cloud pack, all running on open shift which was a great acquisition that IBM did last year. And then they also required other microservices outside to support that environment >> Paint a picture for us as to what the future looks like. It's, it's much different than the past 30 years and bring us home, please. >> Sure. So I think the future for us is to continue to to find all of the solutions that will that will help our customers, you know get to their next steps. Right. And, and there's a lot, as you know did this lots of solutions out there. There's lots of new companies that are popping up all the time. You know, inherently, you know, Mainline is an IBM partner. We've been an IBM partner for 30 plus years since our inception. And that's the base of our business is, is IBM. But, but there are other requirements that are needed by by businesses, by our customers. And that's where we, we reach out and partner up. We probably have gone my goodness 200 plus partnerships with various companies various technology companies that we can then lean on and pull in those ancillary solutions to, to to complete that, that solution for the customer. So I think we're going to continue going down that path. We're going to continue making sure that we're partnered with the, the, the leading technology companies. So we can build that IBM solution for our customer and and bolt on the other pieces that are needed. We're going to continue to grow and enhance our services business because we've got quite a large services business whether it's implementation services, we do manage services we have staffing services. I think you're going to see we're still going to continue to, to grow that business because that is a piece where companies, you know they don't want to worry about running all of that stuff, right. They want to know that their system's going to be running 24 seven. And if there is a bump or a burp or something happens, Hey they could pick up the phone, they can call Mainline. We can help them get things corrected. So I think we're going to still see a lot of that going on as well within our, our, our offerings. >> Excellent. Well, congratulations for making it through that. Not a whole lot, not not every hardware seller reseller made it through and you guys transformed. It's a, it's an inspiring story. Marie, David, thanks so much for coming on the cube. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> You're really welcome. And thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Volante in our continuous coverage and the cube of IBM think 2021. Keep it right there.

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of AWS re:Invent 2020, sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. >> You're watching continued coverage of AWS re:Invent 2020. I'm sure you're joining just a couple of hundred thousand of your closest friends and family on the web as we engage this AWS builder community in a very different way this year. I'm super excited to have one, for the first time Flexera on theCUBE program, I'm Keith Townsend @CTOAdvisor on Twitter and I'm joined by the CEO of Flexera, Jim Ryan. Jim, welcome to the show. >> Thanks for having us Keith. >> And Marie Godfrey, Senior Vice President of Product at Flexera. >> Thanks. It's good to be here. >> Welcome to the show. So, first off, I think most of the industry knows Flexera from the famous survey you guys do every year. Help us understand, what's the purpose of the survey and the intent of it? >> I think the purpose of the survey is to continue to provide the pulse of the market to our customers and the market at large. This is not a revelation to say that cloud, hybrid cloud, multi-cloud is an ever-changing fast, fast moving target in the industry and we find that by pulsing our customers and pulsing the market and then in return, giving people a broader sense as to what's going on, how they view the current top three challenges that they're facing, allows people to just stay relevant and stay current without having to do so much heavy lifting themselves. >> So, talk to me about the other part that's not as famous. Marie, the product, what's the primary goal of Flexera? >> So, to take off from what Jim said, the state of the cloud report that we issue every year is just one of many that we do research on and we published and Flexera hasn't always been known as a cloud management tool or a cloud provider of optimization solutions for the cloud. We have grown up and our legacy is very much on software asset management. So, over the course of both organic and inorganic means, we find ourselves in this great position now to be able to talk to not only our core strengths as an organization and as a company, but also what we do to help our customers optimize their cloud cost. >> So, one of the interesting outputs or data points from the report is this 70/30 split. I've seen it as 80/20, 70/30, more or less the same ideal concept that we spend 30% of our time basically on these innovative projects but 70% of our time basically on traditional IT operations. How does that impact your team's view of the market? >> Well, I think it profoundly impacts our view. You can call it the elephant in the room or you can call it the immovable object. The fact of the matter remains is that although a lot of the focus, attention and an ever increasing share of everybody's budget is being focused and centered on the cloud, if you're a CIO or somebody working in the CIO's organization, what you've got to realize and focus on is that 70% of your applications in your spending in your tech stack, are still on premise and VMs and other things that simply cannot be ignored. So, our overarching value proposition above and beyond remaining relevant in the cloud and publishing the state of the cloud is we focus on giving CIOs and IT teams the insight as to what's going on in your on-prem estate and if we do our jobs properly with our technology stack, it's identifying overuse or cost optimization opportunities, so, you can take dollars from your legacy stack and throw it over to invest in more innovative things that's going to move the needle for your business. >> So, that's a pretty interesting, I think value pop especially where the public cloud show help me understand kind of the overall challenge when we're thinking about public cloud, where typically less than 30% of our resources are probably in the public cloud. For most people watching this interview and the majority are on the private cloud, how does like Flexera help me to extract the value of both environments? >> Well, that's by robbing Peter to pay Paul, right? So, for everybody listening in here, lean in and listen. The biggest problem that we have when we're talking with our customers is that the cloud people aren't talking to the legacy on-prem asset management people and like Americans or everybody else, we got to just get together and talk to one another so, there's money and budget dollars to be extracted on the legacy on-prem last glamorous stuff of the house here and I say with great certainty not knowing all of the situations with everybody that's watching this, that I'm sure that you fight for single Dollar, Euro, Pound, Yen, et cetera, et cetera that you want to spend on your cloud initiatives. By collaborating with your brethren and your sisters over on the other side of the aisle and by looking at what's going on on the on-prem estate here, you can identify opportunities where you can reallocate budget dollars. >> So Marie, you guys have this term that I've not seen before, Technology Value Optimization or TVO, explain that to me. >> So, TVO is just the latest evolution in terms of how we think about our portfolio and our place in this ecosystem. That includes not just your traditional infrastructure management but this bridging and this realization of value when it comes to how we help our customers extract the value from what we do really, really well which is all around discovery of IT assets. It's around knowing my entitlements, it's around understanding my usage and now of course we brought cloud assets into the picture and helping our customers not only understand and see into those cloud assets but really look at how do I right size? How do I reclaim dollars? How do I avoid failed audits and really understand my usage patterns and what it is I need to do to enact and move toward that digital transformation that Jim referred to? So, at the end of the day, how we think about technology value optimization is that critical factor which is all around understanding the return on the investment and how to better understand and monetize the value for our customers in terms of what they have today and where they need to go. >> Ken, I wanted you to shed some light in what we consider or what we should now consider assets in this new era of cloud, and that your traditional products that how could others understand the AS or the asset either is a server or a virtual machine on that server networks switch etcetera but as I look at SaaS and past platforms and infrastructure as a service platform, what is the asset in this new world? >> By my definition, an asset is anything that your company spend money on and you need to get a return on it. So, 10 years ago, if we were having this conversation, an asset would have been a desktop, a router, a server, or maybe it would be a multi-core server and as things started to get a little bit more complicated, we added virtual machines. So, assets weren't just physical devices, they were virtual devices where we really cut our teeth and made a name for ourselves at Flexera was in software license optimization or software asset management, which is you take all of your physical assets and then you throw software applications from IBM, Oracle SAP, Microsoft and you put those two together and what you have are licensable events or financial exposure, because it's not just as simple as buying a database from Oracle, Oracle is going to want to know how many cores you're running on the server, and all of those different combinations in a Rubik's cube of complexity throw off licensable or financial events and while I'd love to tell everybody that the cloud and hybrid cloud and multi-cloud is making it easier, it's actually making it more sophisticated and more complicated to try and get your head around it because now you have containers and just when we thought we had figured out VMs and what assets and things are running in VMs, you've got containers that are going up and down and trying to find out what assets are in containers across a hybrid multicloud environment says the latest instantiation of chasing your tail here in the business. >> And then help me think through, or at least visualize this concept of entitlements when it comes to the cloud era. When I had on premises assets, I could go and look at my Oracle license and maybe figure out what I was entitled to but now when I, especially when I think of multicloud multi-service and even hybrid where Microsoft gives me credits or on premises services versus off-prem services, help me understand how I should be looking at that and how Flexera helps. >> I think you've got to be looking at it at closely and you can't look at it in isolation. So what you can't do is look at what you've got spun up in an Azure environment and AWS or Google cloud environment, because you're only going to negotiate one agreement with Microsoft most likely. You're only going to negotiate one ELA with IBM or Oracle, or fill in the blank and you know what, Oracle's not going to care what you're running in just cloud if they come and audit you. They are going to perform an audit, and they're going to want to know what you're running in in an on-prem world in VMs, on your data center and your desktop, and then they're going to want you to bring to full account what you're running in your cloud environments as well. So the way Flexera helps you is that we can discover, and we can give you an unprecedented visibility into what's running throughout your IT assets estate, whether it's on-prem, on a desktop, in a data center, on a SaaS application and an infrastructure platform as a service, pull it back and normalize it and compare that to what you've actually signed with all of your suppliers and when we do our job right, our customers run our algorithms across what you're entitled to use and what you're actually using, and what we find is that there's anywhere from 30 zero to 30% of overused in spend in ways. >> Keith, I just want to add example of where I saw this in real time with one of our solution engineers this about two weeks ago, where he was demonstrating the power of what we deliver across entitlements and usage and understanding where a potential wasted spend is and the customer was really focused on Oracle, and making sure that the Oracle negotiation coming up was going to be one where the customer felt like they were in a position of strengths and really understood what entitlements and usage were but when we showed them that Oracle was one piece of a bigger puzzle and that their cloud spend and AWS spend, and even their spend with some of their largest SaaS applications was actually much smaller than the whole, it really showed the customer the power of looking at these assets back to your question around assets and how do we think about them in a way that compares them to one another so the customer gets a full point of view. >> It's very difficult to get an Apple's and Apple's comparison with hybrid versus public and it's no longer just, I don't know if it was ever simple, but it's just more complex these days. Last question, as you look at the past few years, and I go to the Flexera website and look at your product portfolio, talk to me about the relationship between your customer in the industry and how that's changed and how customers consume Flexera as a product. >> I think over the years, our customers like the market has shifted to our SaaS and cloud offering we back in the day we used to have perpetual licenses and we were focusing on an on-prem scenario only, and our customers rightfully so have become far more demanding much like the market has and they now expect things to be delivered in real time with an agile mindset on a SaaS or cloud native basis and with that becomes a much, much higher expectation in terms of customer success and service that they get, because they're on a subscription basis, they can cancel at any time, just like we can do with our cable service provider. So we've really had to invest a lot, not just in R&D and making sure that our technology delivers outcomes, but in the way that we work with and service our customers. They're far more demanding than that they ever have and I wouldn't want it any other way and we think that our strategic imperatives is just keeping up with that in their high demands and expectations in the future. >> Well, I really appreciate you two taking out the time out of your busy schedules, both of you on the East coast, I'm in a Midwest, couple of hundred thousand people tuning into AWS re:Invent 2020 virtual learning to tackle a lot of these complex problems. The pandemic, the new reality of the market has forced us to address implementing and managing enterprise IT in a completely different way. This conference is a great example of that. We thank our friends at Flexera for sponsoring this interview. You want to learn more about theCUBE's coverage? Subscribe to the YouTube channel. Plenty of content with me and my fellow co-host this year coming out of AWS re:Invent 2020 talk to you next installment of theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Hi, and welcome to Data Cloud Catalyst, Women in Tech Round Table Panel Discussion. I am so excited to have three fantastic female executives with me today who have been driving transformation through data throughout their entire career. With me today is Lisa Davis, SVP and CIO of Blue Shield of California. We also have Nishita Henry, who is the Chief Innovation Officer at Deloitte and Theresa Briggs, who is on a variety of board of directors, including our own very own Snowflake. Welcome, ladies. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> So I'm just going to dive right in. You all have really amazing careers and resumes behind you. I'm really curious, throughout your career, how have you seen the use of data evolve throughout your career? And, Lisa, I'm going to start with you. >> Thank you. Having been in technology my entire career, technology and data has really evolved from being the province of a few in an organization to frankly being critical to everyone's business outcomes. Now every business leader really needs to embrace data analytics and technology. We've been talking about digital transformation probably the last five, seven years, we've all talked about disrupt or be disrupted. At the core of that digital transformation is the use of data. Data and analytics that we derive insights from and actually improve our decision making by driving a differentiated experience and capability into market. So data has involved as being, I would say, almost tactical in some sense over my technology career, to really being a strategic asset of what we leverage personally in our own careers, but also what we must leverage as companies to drive a differentiated capability to experience and remain relative in the market today. >> Nishita, curious your take on how you've seen data evolve? >> Yeah, I agree with Lisa. It has definitely become the lifeblood of every business, right? It used to be that there were a few companies in the business of technology, every business is now a technology business. Every business is a data business. It is the way that they go to market, shape the market and serve their clients. Whether you're in construction, whether you're in retail, whether you're in healthcare it doesn't matter, right? Data is necessary for every business to survive and thrive. And I remember at the beginning of my career, data was always important but it was about storing data. It was about giving people individual reports, it was about supplying that data to one person or one business unit in silos. And it then evolved right over the course of time into integrating data and to saying, all right, how does one piece of data correlate to the other and how can I get insights out of that data? Now, let's go on to the point of how do I use that data to predict the future? How do I use that data to automate the future? How do I use that data not just for humans to make decisions, but for other machines to make decisions, right? Which is a big leap. And a big change in how we use data, how we analyze data and how we use it for insights in evolving our businesses. >> Yeah, it's really changed so tremendously just in the past five years. It's amazing. So Teresa, we've talked a lot about the Data Cloud, where do you think we're heading with that? And also, how can future leaders really guide their careers in data, especially in those jobs where we don't traditionally think of them in the data science space? Curious your thoughts on that? >> Yeah, well, since I'm on the Snowflake board, I'll talk a little bit about the Snowflake Data Cloud. Now we're getting your company's data out of the silos that exists all over your organization, we're bringing third party data in to combine with your own data, and we're wrapping a governance structure around it and feeding it out to your employees so that they can get their jobs done. And is as simple as that. I think we've all seen the pandemic accelerate the digitization of our work. And if you ever doubted the future of work is here, it is here. And companies are scrambling to catch up by providing the right amount of data, collaboration tools, workflow tools for their workers to get their jobs done. Now, it used to be as prior people have mentioned that in order to work with data you had to be a data scientist. But I was an auditor back in the day and we used to work on 16 columns spreadsheet. And now if you're an accounting major coming out of college joining an auditing firm, you have to be tech and data savvy because you're going to be extracting, manipulating, analyzing and auditing data, that massive amounts of data that sit in your client's IT systems. I'm on the board of Warby Parker, and you might think that their most valuable asset is their amazing frame collection, but it's actually their data, their 360 degree view of the customer. And so if you're a merchant or you're in strategy, or marketing or talent or the co-CEO, you're using data every day in your work. And so I think it's going to become a ubiquitous skill that anyone who's a knowledge worker has to be able to work with data. >> Yeah, I think it's just going to be organic to every role going forward in the industry. So Lisa, curious about your thoughts about Data Cloud, the future of it, and how people can really leverage it in their jobs from future leaders? >> Yeah, absolutely. Most enterprises today are, I would say, hybrid multi cloud enterprises. What does that mean? That means that we have data sitting on prem, we have data sitting in public clouds through software as a service applications, we have a data everywhere, most enterprises have data everywhere. Certainly those that have owned infrastructure or weren't born on the web. One of the areas that I love that Data Cloud is addressing is the area around data portability and mobility. Because I have data sitting in various locations through my enterprise, how do I aggregate that data to really drive meaningful insights out of that data to drive better business outcomes? And at Blue Shield of California, one of our key initiatives is what we call an experienced cube. What does that mean? It means how do I drive transparency of data between providers, members and payers? So that not only do I reduce overhead on providers and provide them a better experience, or hospital systems or doctors, but ultimately, how do we have the member have it their power of their fingertips the value of their data holistically, so that we're making better decisions about their health care? One of the things Teresa was talking about was the use of this data, and I would drive to data democratization. We got to put the power of data into the hands of everyone, not just data scientists. Yes, we need those data scientists to help us build AI models to really drive and tackle these tougher challenges and business problems that we may have in our environments. But everybody in the company, both on the IT side, both on the business side, really need to understand of how do we become a data insights driven enterprise. Put the power of the data into everyone's hands so that we can accelerate capabilities, right? And leverage that data to ultimately drive better business results. So as a leader, as a technology leader, part of our responsibility, our leadership is to help our companies do that. And that's really one of the exciting things that I'm doing in my role now at Blue Shield of California. >> Yeah, it's really, really exciting time. I want to shift gears a little bit and focus on women in tech. So I think in the past five to 10 years, there has been a lot of headway in this space. But the truth is women are still underrepresented in the tech space. So what can we do to attract more women into technology quite honestly. So Nishita, curious, what your thoughts are on that? >> Great question. And I am so passionate about this for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is I have two daughters of my own. And I know how important it is for women and young girls to actually start early in their love for technology, and data and all things digital, right? So I think it's one very important to start early, start an early education, building confidence of young girls that they can do this, showing them role models. We at Deloitte just partnered with Ella the Engineer to actually make comic books centered around young girls and boys in the early elementary age to talk about how heroes and tech solve everyday problems. And so really helping to get people's minds around tech is not just in the back office coding on a computer, tech is about solving problems together that help us as citizens, as customers, right? And as humanity. So I think that's important. I also think we have to expand that definition of tech, as we just said. It's not just about, right? Database design. It's not just about Java and Python coding, it's about design. It's about the human machine interfaces. It's about how do you use it to solve real problems and getting people to think in that kind of mindset makes it more attractive and exciting. And lastly, I'd say look, we have absolute imperative to get a diverse population of people, not just women, but minorities, those with other types of backgrounds, disabilities, etc involved. Because this data is being used to drive decision making, and if we are not all involved, right? In how that data makes decisions, it can lead to unnatural biases that no one intended but can happen just 'cause we haven't involved a diverse enough group of people around it. >> Absolutely. Lisa, curious about your thoughts on this. >> I agree with everything Nishita said. I've been passionate about this area, I think it starts with first we need more role models. We need more role models as women in these leadership roles throughout various sectors. And it really is it starts with us and helping to pull other women forward. So I think certainly, it's part of my responsibility, I think all of us as female executives that if you have a seat at the table to leverage that seat at the table to drive change, to bring more women forward, more diversity forward into the boardroom and into our executive suites. I also want to touch on a point Nishita made about women, we're the largest consumer group in the company yet we're consumers, but we're not builders. This is why it's so important that we start changing that perception of what tech is. And I agree that it starts with our young girls. We know the data shows that we lose our young girls by middle school. Very heavy peer pressure, it's not so cool to be smart, or do robotics, or be good at math and science. We start losing our girls in middle school. So they're not prepared when they go to high school and they're not taking those classes in order to major in the STEM fields in college. So we have to start the pipeline early with our girls. And then I also think it's a measure of what your boards are doing. What is the executive leadership and your goals around diversity and inclusion? How do we invite more diverse population to the decision making table? So it's really a combination of efforts. One of the things that certainly is concerning to me is during this pandemic, I think we're losing one in four women in the workforce now, because of all the demands that our families are having to navigate through this pandemic. The last statistic I saw in the last four months is we've lost 850,000 women in the workforce. This pipeline is critical to making that change in these leadership positions. >> Yeah, it's really a critical time. And now we're coming to the end of this conversation, I want to ask you Teresa, what would be a call to action to everyone listening, both men and women since its needs to be solved by everyone, to address the gender gap in the industry? >> I'd encourage each of you to become an active sponsor. Research shows that women and minorities are less likely to be sponsored than white men. Sponsorship is a much more active form than mentorship. Sponsorship involves helping someone identify career opportunities and actively advocating for them in those roles, opening your network, giving very candid feedback. And we need men to participate too. There are not enough women in tech to pull forward and sponsor the high potential women that are in our pipelines. And so we need you to be part of the solution. >> Nishita real quickly, what would be your call to action to everyone? >> I'd say look around your teams, see who's on them and make deliberate decisions about diversifying those teams. As positions open up, make sure that you have a diverse set of candidates, and make sure that there are women that are part of that team. And make sure that you are actually hiring and putting people into positions based on potential not just experience. >> And real quickly Lisa, will close it out with you, what would your call to action be? >> Well, it's hard to... What Nishita and what Teresa shared I think were very powerful actions. I think it starts with us. Taking action at our own table, making sure you're driving diverse panels and hiring, setting goals for the company. Having your board engaged and holding us accountable and driving to those goals, will help us all see a better outcome but with more women at the executive table and diverse populations. >> Great advice and great action for all of us to take. Thank you all so much for spending time with me today and talking about this really important issue. I really appreciate it. Stay with us.

>> Hi, and welcome to data cloud catalyst women in tech round table panel discussion. I am so excited to have three fantastic female executives with me today who have been driving transformation through data throughout their entire career. With me today is Lisa Davis SVP and CIO of Blue Shield of California. We also have Nishita Henry who is the chief innovation officer at Deloitte and Teresa Briggs, who is on a variety of board of directors, including our very own Snowflake. Welcome, ladies. >> Thank you. So I'm just going to dive right in. You all have really amazing careers and resumes behind you. I'm really curious, throughout your career, how have you seen the use of data evolve throughout your career? And Lisa, I'm going to start with you. >> Thank you. Having been in technology my entire career, technology and data has really evolved from being the province of a few in an organization to frankly being critical to everyone's business outcomes. But now every business leader really needs to embrace data analytics and technology. We've been talking about digital transformation probably the last five, seven years. We've all talked about disrupt or be disrupted. At the core of that digital transformation is the use of data, data, and analytics that we derive insights from and actually improve our decision-making by driving a differentiated experience and capability into market. So data has involved as being, I would say, almost tactical in some sense over my technology career to really being a strategic asset of what we leveraged personally in our own careers, but also what we must leverage as companies to drive a differentiated capability to experience and remain relative in the market today. >> Nishita curious your take on, how you've seen data evolve? >> Yeah, I agree with Lisa, it has definitely become the lifeblood of every business, right? It used to be that there were a few companies in the business of technology. Every business is now a technology business. Every business is a data business. It is the way that they go to market, shape the market and serve their clients. Whether you're in construction, whether you're in retail, whether you're in healthcare doesn't matter, right? Data is necessary for every business to survive and thrive. And I remember at the beginning of my career, data was always important, but it was about storing data. It was about giving people individual reports. It was about supplying that data to one person or one business unit in silos. And it then evolved right over the course of time and to integrating data and to saying, all right, how does one piece of data correlate to the other? And how can I get insights out of that data? Now let's go on to the point of how do I use that data to predict the future? How do I use that data to automate the future? How do I use that data not just for humans to make decisions but for other machines to make decisions, right? Which is a big leap and a big change in how we use data, how we analyze data and how we use it for insights and evolving our businesses. >> Yeah. It's really changed so tremendously, just in the past five years, it's amazing. So Teresa, we've talked a lot about the data cloud, where do you think we're heading with that? And also how can future leaders really guide their careers in data, especially in those jobs where we don't traditionally think of them in the data science space, curious your thoughts on that. >> Yeah. Well, since I'm on the Snowflake board, I'll talk a little bit about the Snowflake data cloud that we're getting your company's data out of the silos that exist all over your organization. We're bringing third party data in to combine with your own data and we're wrapping a governance structure around it and feeding it out to your employees so that they can get their jobs done. And it's as simple as that, I think we've all seen the pandemic accelerated the digitization of our work. And if you ever doubted that the future of work is here, it is here. And companies are scrambling to catch up by providing the right amount of data, collaboration tools, workflow tools for their workers to get their jobs done. Now it used to be, as prior, people have mentioned that in order to work with data, you had to be a data scientist. But I was an auditor back in the day and we used to work on 16 columns spreadsheet. And now if you're an accounting major coming out of college, joining an auditing firm, you have to be tech and data savvy because you're going to be extracting, manipulating, analyzing, and auditing data. That massive amounts of data that sit in your client's IT systems. I'm on the board of Warby Parker. And you might think that their most valuable asset is their amazing frame collection but it's actually their data. There are 360 degree view of the customer. And so if you're a merchant or you're in strategy or marketing or talent or the co-CEO, you're using data every day in your work. And so I think it's going to become a ubiquitous skill that any anyone who's a knowledge worker has to be able to work with data. >> Now, I think it's just going to be organic to every role going forward in the industry. >> So Lisa curious about your thoughts about data cloud, the future of it, and how people can really leverage it in their jobs from future leaders. >> Yeah, absolutely. Most enterprises today are, I would say, hybrid multi-cloud enterprises. What does that mean? That means that we have data sitting on prem. We have data sitting in public clouds through software, as a service applications. We have a data everywhere. Most enterprises have data everywhere. Certainly those that have owned infrastructure or weren't born on the web. One of the areas that I'd love that data cloud is addressing is the area around data portability and mobility. Because I have data sitting in various locations through my enterprise, how do I aggregate that data to really drive meaningful insights out of that data to drive better business outcomes. And at Blue Shield of California, one of our key initiatives is what we call an experience cube. What does that mean? It means how do I drive transparency of data between providers and members and payers so that not only do I reduce overhead on providers and provide them a better experience or hospital systems or doctors, but ultimately how do we have the member have at their power of their fingertips the value of their data holistically so that we're making better decisions about their healthcare? One of the things Teresa was talking about was the use of this data. And I would drive to data democratization. We got to put the power of data into the hands of everyone, not just data scientists. Yes, we need those data scientists to help us build AI models to really drive and tackle these tougher challenges and business problems that we may have in our environments. But everybody in the company, both on the IT side, both on the business side, really need to understand of how do we become a data insights driven enterprise, put the power of the data into everyone's hands so that we can accelerate capabilities, right? And leverage that data to ultimately drive better business results. So as a leader, as a technology leader, part of our responsibility, our leadership is to help our companies do that. And that's really one of the exciting things that I'm doing in my role now at Blue Shield of California. >> Yeah. It's really, really exciting time. I want to shift gears a little bit and focus on women in tech. So I think in the past 5 to 10 years there has been a lot of headway in this space but the truth is women are still underrepresented in the tech space. So what can we do to attract more women into technology? Quite honestly. So Nishita curious what your thoughts are on that? >> Great question. And I am so passionate about this for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is I have two daughters of my own and I know how important it is for women and young girls to actually start early in their love for technology and data and all things digital, right? So I think it's one very important to start early, starting early education, building confidence of young girls that they can do this, showing them role models. We at Deloitte just partnered with LOV engineer to actually make comic books centered around young girls and boys in the early elementary age to talk about how heroes in techs solve everyday problems. And so really helping to get people's minds around tech is not just in the back office, coding on a computer, tech is about solving problems together that help us as citizens as customers, right? And as humanity. So I think that's important. I also think we have to expand that definition of tech as we just said, it's not just about database design. It's not just about Java and Python coding. It's about design, it's about the human machine interfaces. It's about how do you use it to solve real problems and getting people to think in that kind of mindset makes it more attractive and exciting. And lastly, I'd say, look we have a absolute imperative to get a diverse population of people, not just women but minorities, those with other types of backgrounds, disabilities, et cetera, involved because this data is being used to drive decision-making, and if we're all involved and how that data makes decisions, it can lead to unnatural biases that no one intended but can happen just 'cause we haven't involved a diverse enough group of people around it. >> Absolutely. Lisa, I'm curious about your thoughts on this. >> Oh, I agree with everything Nishita said. I've been passionate about this area. I think it starts with first, we need more role models. We need more role models as women in these leadership roles throughout various sectors. And it really is, it starts with us and helping to pull other women forward. So I think it certainly it's part of my responsibility. I think all of us as female executives that if you have a seat at the table to leverage that seat at the table to drive change to bring more women forward, more diversity forward into the boardroom and into our executive suites. I also want to touch on a point Nishita made about women. We're the largest consumer group in the company yet we're consumers, but we're not builders. This is why it's so important that we start changing that perception of what tech is. And I agree that it starts with our young girls. We know the data shows that we lose our young girls by middle school, very heavy peer pressure. It's not so cool to be smart or do robotics or be good at math and science. We start losing our girls in middle school. So they're not prepared when they go to high school and they're not taking those classes in order to major in these STEM fields in college. So we have to start the pipeline early with our girls. And then I also think it's a measure of what your boards are doing. What is the executive leadership and your goals around diversity and inclusion? How do we invite more diverse population to the decision-making table? So it's really a combination of efforts. One of the things that certainly is concerning to me is during this pandemic, I think we're losing one in four women in the workforce now because of all the demands that our families are having to navigate through this pandemic. The last statistic I saw in the last four months is we've lost 850,000 women in the workforce. This pipeline is critical to making that change in these leadership positions. >> Yeah, it's really a critical time. And now we're coming to the end of this conversation. I want to ask you Teresa, what would be a call to action to everyone listening, both men and women since it needs to be solved by everyone to address the gender gap in the industry. >> I'd encourage to you to become an active sponsor. Research shows that women and minorities are less likely to be sponsored than white men. Sponsorship is a much more active form than mentorship. Sponsorship involves helping someone identify career opportunities and actively advocating for them in those roles, opening your network, giving very candid feedback. And we need men to participate too. There are not enough women in tech to pull forward and sponsor the high potential women that are in our pipelines. And so we need you to be part of the solution. >> Nishita, real quickly, what would be your call to action to everyone? >> I'd say, look around your teams, see who's on them and make deliberate decisions about diversifying those teams, as positions open up, make sure that you have a diverse set of candidates. Make sure that there are women that are part of that team and make sure that you are actually hiring and putting people into positions based on potential, not just experience. >> And real quickly, Lisa, we'll close it out with you. What would your call to action be? >> Well, it's hard to, but Nishita and what Teresa shared, I think were very powerful actions. I think it starts with us taking action at our own table, making sure you're driving diverse panels and hiring, setting goals for the company, having your board engaged and holding us accountable and driving to those goals will help us all see a better outcome with more women at the executive table and diverse populations. >> So I want to talk to you all about a pivotal moment in your career. It could have been a mentorship. It could have been maybe a setback in your career or maybe a time that you really took a risk and it paid off big, something that really helped define your career going forward. Curious what those moments were for you all in your career. Teresa, we'll start with you. >> Sure. I had a great sponsor and he was a white male by the way. He identified some potential in me when I was early in my career about five years in and he really helped pave the way for a number of decisions I made along the way to take different roles in the firm. I was at Deloitte, he's still in my life today. We get together a couple of times a year. And even though we're both retired from Deloitte, we still have that relationship and what that tell me was how to be a great sponsor. And so one of the most satisfying things I did in my career was when I finally got to the place where I was no longer reaching for the next rank of the ladder for myself, I got to turn around and pull through all of these amazing future leaders into roles that were going to help them accelerate their careers. >> What about you, Lisa? >> I think there's been many of those moments. One I'll speak about is having spin 20, 25 years in technology, I had spent my first career in department of defense, moved over to academia and then went to a high-tech firm on their IT side, really in hopes of getting the CIO role having been a CIO, I did not get the CIO role, and really had a decision to make. One of the opportunities that was presented to me was to move to the business side to run a $9 billion P&L on one of the core business units within the company. And of course, I was terrified. It was a very risky decision having never run a P&L before and not starting small going right to the billion dollar mark in terms of (laughs) what that would look like. And frankly decided to seize that opportunity and I've certainly learned in my career that those opportunities that really push you out of your comfort zone that take you down a really completely different path or where the greatest opportunities for growth and learning occur. So I did that role for three and a half years before coming into my current role back to a CIO role at Blue Shield of California in healthcare, and just a tremendous amount of learning, having been on the business side and managing a P&L that I now apply to how I engage with my partners at Blue Shield. >> I couldn't agree more. I think forcing yourself out of that comfort zone is so critical for learning and driving your career for sure. Nishita, what about you? >> Yeah, I agree. Lots of pivotal moments, but I'll talk about one very early in my career, actually was an intern and one of my responsibilities was to help research back then facial recognition technology. And I had to go out there and evaluate vendors and take meetings with vendors and figure out, all right, which ones do we want to actually test? And I remember I was leading a meeting, two of my kind of supervisors were with us. And I know I went through the list of questions and then the meeting kind of ended. And I didn't speak up at that point in time to kind of say here are the next steps or here's what I recommend. I kind of looked at my supervisors to do that. Just assuming they should be wrapping it up and they should be the ones to make a final decision or choice. And after that meeting, he came to me and he's like you know Nishita you did a really nice job in bringing these technologies forward but I wish you would have spoken up because you're the one who've done the most research. And you're the one who has the most background on what we should do next. Next time don't stand by and let someone else be your voice. And it was so powerful for me and I realized, wow, I should have more confidence in myself to be able to actually use my voice and do what I was asked to do versus leave it to someone else because I assumed that I was too junior or I assumed I didn't have enough experience. So that was really pivotal for me early in my career to learn how to use my voice. >> I'm really curious for you, Nishita. What drew you to the industry of data? What was something when you were young that drew you into that space? >> Yeah. So my background is actually in engineering and it's actually funny. It's an electrical engineering and I probably couldn't do another thermal dynamics equation to save my life anymore (laughs). But what drew me to technology was problem solving, right? It was all about how do I take a bunch of data and information and create a new solution, right? Whether it was, how do I create a device? I remember in college, right? Creating a device to go down stadium steps and clean, right? How do I take data for how this machine will interact with the environment in order to create it? So I always viewed it as problem solving and that's what has always attracted me into the field. >> That's great. So, Teresa, I'm curious, at what point did you feel that you really found your voice in your career, in yourself as a part of your professional life? >> Yeah. About 12 years into my career I started working as an M&A partner and I was working with a private equity firm along with their lawyers and other advisors, bankers and so forth. And what I realized in that situation was that I was the expert in what I did. And so, I mean, I found my voice before that in many other ways but that was sort of a moment where I felt like, "I'm here to deliver an expertise to this group of people. And none of them have the expertise that I have. And so I need to just stand firm in my shoes and deliver that expertise with confidence." So that was my example. >> That's great. Well, Lisa, what about you? What was that moment that you felt that you just found your voice kind of in your groove and that confidence kicked in? >> No, I don't know if it was exactly a moment but it was certainly a realization. Right out of college, I was working for the federal government in department of defense and certainly male dominated. And through that realized that to be heard, I had to become very good at what I do. So I built that confidence, frankly, by delivering results and capability and becoming an expert in the work, essentially the services that I provide. And when you become very good at what you do, regardless of what you look like, then people will start to listen. So I think it starts with delivering results. I think you have to build your confidence and through that you find to use your voice so that you are being heard, having worked in department of defense and academia and high tech, I've had to leverage that throughout my entire career ultimately for my voice to be heard, and to be represented within the roles that I was playing. >> That's great. I know one of the things that we've also talked about is just the value, the business value, the importance of having a diverse workforce and a diverse team and the value that that brings to the outcomes. What are some of your strategies to create those types of teams? What, as leaders in your company, you manage a team and what is your advice to them, your strategies to get a diverse pool of candidates and a diverse team. Nishita, what about you? >> I think it's looking beyond what the individual role is, right? So a lot of times we have a role description and you want these certain skills and so (indistinct), or you get a certain set of candidates. I think it's taking a step back and saying, "What are the objectives of my team? What am I trying to accomplish? What types of business acumen do I need on that team? What types of tech acumen, what types of personalities? Do I want people who know how to work with others and therefore bring them together? Do I need people who are also drivers and know how to get things done, right?" It's finding the right chemistry. We have a business chemistry, talk track around. We don't need all different kinds to make a really good team. So I think it's taking a step back and understanding what you need the makeup of your team to be, understanding the hard skills and the soft skills. And then thinking about what are all the sources you could really go to for them and being a little bit non-traditional and saying, "Do I need a full-time person all the time to do this job that's sitting here? Can I be more diverse in finding people from the crowd? Can I have part-time resources? Can I use different pieces and parts of the ecosystem to actually bring together the full team that represents the diversity?" It's just expanding our mind and stop thinking about a role to person, start thinking about it as the makeup of a team, to the outcome you desire. >> It's really about being creative and just thinking in new ways. Teresa, I'm super curious, since you sit on a bunch of different boards, what kind of strategies do you see companies taking to attract different talent? >> So I can address that from the board lens, for sure. And boards are probably one of the least diverse bodies in business right now, but that is changing, and for the better, obviously they were traditionally kind of white male dominated. And then we've had this wave of women joining boards. And now we're starting to see a wave of diverse individuals join boards. And with each person who's diverse that joins a board that I'm on, the dynamic of the discussion changes because they bring a different perspective. They bring a different way of thinking. They came from a different background or a different functional skillset or a different geography or you name, whatever element of diversity you want to see. We just added the head of Apple music to the service in our board. And so you might scratch your head and say, "Wow, the head of Apple music and an enterprise software company that is a B2B software company." But he thinks deeply about how the end user consumes in his case content and in our case software. And so he's able to bring just a completely different perspective to the discussion we have at the board table. And I think at the end of the day, that's what diversity is all about, is improving the outcome of whatever it is. If you're producing something or making important decisions like we do in board rooms. >> That's amazing. Lisa, real quickly, what are some of your strategies? >> Yeah. Well, we know diverse teams actually produce better business results. So there's no reason, there's absolutely no reason why we shouldn't think in that lens. I think it starts with our hiring and the makeup of our teams. I think it requires more than creativity though. You have to be very purposeful. I'm in the process of hiring four leadership positions on my team. And it's really to me, almost like a puzzle piece of diverse perspectives and knowledge and capabilities that come together that ultimately create a high performing team. But I can't tell you how many times I got to go back to HR and say, "I need to see more diverse talent. Are there any more women in the pool?" One of the things we've struggled, we have to get more women into the roles is, and we heard this from Sheryl Sandberg, as women, we feel we need to meet every qualification on an application. Whereas men, "I got a couple I'm good to go." And they throw their name in the hat. They take much more risk than we do as women. So we need to encourage our women to get out of your comfort zone. You don't need to meet every qualification. What Nishita was saying of thinking more broadly about what this role requires and the type of individual that we're looking for, but be purposeful in terms of driving to diversity as our end result. >> That is so true. What you just said. Thank you so much for sharing your insights. It's really interesting to hear all your strategies and thanks for sharing. >> And you're clear.

from around the globe it's the cube with digital coverage of Red Hat summit 2020 brought to you by Red Hat welcome back to the cubes coverage of Red Hat summit 2020 of course this year it's rather than all coming to San Francisco we are talking to red hat executives their partners and their customers where they are around the globe happy to welcome back one of our cube alumni Lisa Spellman who's a corporate vice president and general manager of the Intel Xeon and memory group Lisa thanks so much for joining us and where are you joining us from well thank you for having me and I'm a little further north than where the conference was gonna be held so I'm in Portland Oregon right now excellent yeah we've had you know customers from around the globe as part of the cube coverage here and of course you're near the mothership of Intel so Lisa you know but let's start of course you know the Red Hat partnership you know I've been the Intel executives on the keynote stage for for many years so talk about to start us off the Intel Red Hat partnership as it stands today in 2020 yeah you know on the keynote stage for many years and then actually again this year so despite the virtual nature of the event that we're having we're trying to still show up together and demonstrate together to our customers and our developer community really give them a sense for all the work that we're doing across the important transformations that are happening in the industry so we view this partnership in this event as important ways for us to connect and make sure that we have a chance to really share where we're going next and gather feedback on where our customers and that developer community need us to go together because it is a you know rich long history of partnership of the combination of our Hardware work and the open-source software work that we do with Red Hat and we see that every year increasing in value as we expand to more workloads and more market segments that we can help with our technology yeah well Lisa you know we've seen on the cube for for many years Intel strong partnerships across the industry from the data centers from the cloud I think we're gonna talk a little bit about edge for this discussion too though edge and 5g III think about all the hard work that Intel does especially with its partnership you know you talked about and I think that the early days of Red Hat you know the operating system things that were done as virtualization rolled out there's accelerations that gone through so when it comes to edge in 5g obviously big mega waves that we spend a lot of talking about what's what's Intel's piece obviously we know Intel chips go everywhere but when it comes to kind of the engineering work that gets done what are some of the pieces that Intel spork yeah and that's a great example actually of what I what we are seeing is this expansion of areas of workloads and investment and opportunity that we face so as we move forward into 5g becoming not the theoretical next thing but actually the thing that is starting to be deployed and transformed you can see a bunch of underlying work that Intel and Red Hat have done together in order to make that a reality so you look at they move from a very proprietary ASIC based type of workload with a single function running on it and what we've done is drive to have the virtualization capabilities that took over and provided so much value in the cloud data center also apply to the 5g network so the move to network function virtualization and software-defined networking and a lot of value being derived from the opportunity to run that on open source standard and have that open source community really come together to make it easier and faster to deploy those technologies and also to get good SLA s and quality of service while you're driving down your overall total cost of ownership so we've spent years working on that together in the 5g space and network space in general and now it's really starting to take off then that is very well connected to the edge so if you think about the edge as this point of content creation of where the actions happening and you start to think through how much of the compute or the value can I get out at the edge without everything having to go all the way back to the data center you start to again see how those open standards in very complex environments and help people manage their total cost of ownership and the complexity all right Lisa so when you're talking about edge solutions when I've been talking to Red Hat where their first deployments have really been talking to the service providers really I've seen it as an extension of what you were talking about network functions virtualization you know everybody talks about edges there's a lot of different edges out there the service providers being the first place we see things but you know all the way out even to the consumer edge and the device edge where Intel may or may not have you know some some devices there so help us understand you know where where you're sitting and where should we be looking as these technologies work you know it's a it's a great point we see the edge being developed by multiple types of organizations so yes the service providers are obviously there in so much as they already even own the location points out there if you think of all the myriad of poles with the the base stations and everything that's out there that's a tremendous asset to capitalize on you also see our cloud service provider customers moving towards the edge as well as they think of new developer services and capabilities and of course you see the enterprise edge coming in if you think of factory type of utilization methodologies or in manufacturing all of those are very enterprise based and are really focused on not that consumer edge but on the b2b edge or the you know the infrastructure edge is what you might think of it as but they're working through how do they add efficiency capability automation all into their existing work but making it better so at Intel the way that we look at that is it's all opportunities to provide the right foundation for that so when we look at the silicon products that we develop we gather requirements from that entire landscape and then we work through our silicon portfolio you know we have our portfolio really focused on the movement the storage and the processing of data and we try to look at that in a very holistic way and decide where the capability will best serve that workload so you do have a choice at times whether some new feature or capability goes into the CPU or the Zeon engine or you could think about whether that would be better served by being added into a smart egg type of capability and so those are just small examples of how we look at the entirety of the data flow in the edge and at what the use case is and then we utilize that to inform how we improve the silicon and where we add feature well Lisa as you were going through this it makes me also think about one of the other big mega waves out there artificial intelligence so lots of discussion as you were saying what goes where how we think about it cloud edge devices so how does AI intersect with this whole discussion of edge that we were just having yeah and you're probably gonna have to cut me off because I could go on for a long time on on this one but AI is such an exciting at capability that is coming through everywhere literally from the edge through the core network into the cloud and you see it infiltrating every single workload across the enterprise across cloud service providers across the network service providers so it is truly on its way to being completely pervasive and so again that presents the same opportunity for us so if you look at your silicon portfolio you need to be able to address artificial intelligence all the way from the edge to the cloud and that can mean adding silicon capabilities that can handle milliwatts like ruggedized super low power super long life you don't literally out at the edge and then all the way back to the data center where you're going for a much higher power at a higher capability for training of the models so we have built out a portfolio that addresses all of that and one of the interesting things about the edges people always think of it as a low compute area so they think of it as data collection but more and more of that data collection is also having a great benefit from being able to do an amount of compute and inference out at the edge so we see a tremendous amount of actual Zeon product being deployed out at the edge because of the need to actually deliver quite high-powered compute right there and that's improving customer experiences and it's changing use cases through again healthcare manufacturing automotive you see it in all the major fast mover edge industries yeah now we're really good points they make their Lisa we all got used to you know limitless compute in the cloud and therefore you know let's put everything there but of course we understand there's this little thing called the speed of light that makes it that much of the information that is collected at the edge can't go beyond it you know I saw a great presentation actually last year talking about the geosynchronous satellites they collect so much information and you know you can't just beam it back and forth so I better have some compute there so you know we've known for a long time that the challenge of you know of our day has been distributed architectures and edge just you know changes that you know the landscape and the surface area that we need the touch so much more when I think about all those areas obviously security is an area that comes up so how does Intel and its partners make sure that no matter where my data is and you talk about the various memory that you know security is still considered at each aspect of the environment oh it's a huge focus because if you think of people and phrases they used to say like oh we got to have the fat pipe or the dumb pipe to get you know data back and or there is no such thing as a dumb pipe anymore everything is smart the entire way through the lifecycle and so with that smartness you need to have security embedded from the get-go into that work flow and what people need to understand is they undergo their edge deployments and start that work is that your obligation for the security of that data begins the you collect that data it doesn't start when it's back to the cloud or back in the data center so you own it and need to be on it from the beginning so we work across our Silicon portfolio and then our software ecosystem to think through it in terms of that entire pipeline of the data movement and making sure that there's not breakdowns in each of the handoff chain it's a really complex problem and it is not one that Intel is able to solve alone nor any individual silicon or software vendor along the way and I will say that some of the security work over the past couple years has led to a bringing together of the industry to address problems together whether they be on any other given day a friend or a foe when it comes to security I feel like I've seen just an amazing increase over the past two two and a half years on the collaboration to solve these problems together and ultimately I think that leads to a better experience for our users and for our customers so we are investing in it not just at the new features from the silicon perspective but in also understanding newer and more advanced threat or attack surfaces that can happen inside of the silicon or the software component all right so Lisa final question I have for you want to circle back to where we started it's Red Hat summit this week-long partnerships as I mentioned we see Intel it all the cloud shows you partner with all the hardware software providers and the like so big message from Red Hat is the open hybrid cloud to talk about how that fits in with everything that Intel is doing it's an area of really strong interconnection between us and Red Hat because we have a vision of that open hybrid cloud that is very well aligned and the part about it is that it is rooted not just in here's my feature here's my feature from either one of us it's rooted in what our customers need and what we see our enterprise customers driving towards that desire to utilize the cloud to in prove their capabilities and services but also maintain that capability inside their own house as well so that they have really viable work load transformation they have opportunities for their total cost of ownership and can fundamentally use technology to drive their business forward all right well Lisa Spellman thank you so much for all the update from Intel and definitely look forward to seeing the breakouts the keynotes and the like yes me too all right lots more coverage here from the cube redhead summit 2020 I'm Stu minimun and thanks as always for watching [Music]

>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering RSA Conference 2020 San Francisco. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. >> Welcome back everyone. This is theCUBE's coverage from RSA Conference on Moscone South. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. You know, cybersecurity is changing, and the next technology is right around the corner, and it's got to be invented somewhere, and of course Accenture Labs is part of it. Our next guest is Lisa O'Connor, Global Security R&D Lead for Accenture Labs. Lisa's working on some of those hard problems all around the world. Thank you for joining me today. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you for having me. >> So, we always get the good scoop from Accenture, because you have a lot of smart people in that company. You know, they know their stuff. I know you got a huge analytics team. I've talked to Jean-Luc Chatelain before, and I know you got a massive amount of, deep bench of talent. But as you have to go do the applied R&D, and maybe some of the crazy ideas, you got to start thinking about where the puck is going to be. >> Absolutely. >> You got to understand that. Well, it's pretty clear to us that Cloud is certainly there. Palo Alto Networks had a disappointing earnings yesterday, because their on-premises business is shifting to the Cloud. You're seeing hybrid operating model and multicloud for the enterprise, but now you got global challenges. >> We absolutely do. >> Huge, so what are you guys working on that's coming? Tell us. >> So we're working on lots of exciting things, and Cloud is one of them. But, some of the things I'm so passionate about in labs, and I have the best job at Accenture. Don't tell anyone. (laughs) I do. So, we are working on, like Jean-Luc is working on applied intelligence, we are working on robust AI. So, when we think about AI in the future, how do we feel that, and know that it's okay? How do we put it out there and know it's safe in production, we've done the right training, we've made our model resilient to what's out there? One of the things we see happening, and I love AI, love it. It has great potential, and we get great insights out of it, but a lot of times we stop, we get the insights, and we say, "Okay, it's in the box, we got a couple hits there, "we're good, it's good." No, maybe not. And so really, it's learning and creating the actually applied attacks on AI, and then figuring out what the right defenses are. And, depending on what type of machine learning you're using, those defenses change. And so, we're having a great time in our lab in Washington D.C., working on basically defending AI and building those techniques, so that what we put out as Accenture is robust. >> You know, it's interesting, AI, you watch some of the hardcore, you know, social justice warriors out there going after Amazon, Google, you know, because they're doing some pretty progressive things. Oh, facial recognition, you got AI, you got Alexa. You know, a lot of people are like, "Oh, I'm scared." But, at the end of the day, they also have some challenges like network security, so you have all this AI up and down the stack. And, one thing I like about what's being talked about in the industry is the shared responsibility model. So, I got to ask you, as AI becomes exciting, but also, balancing, frightening to people, how do you get that shared responsibility model, so we get it right, do the experimentation, without people freaking out? (laughs) So, it's kind of like this weird mode we're in now, where I want to do more AI, because I think it benefits society, but everyone's freaking out. >> Yeah, so, in our tech vision that we just launched, The Tech Vision 2020, there's a lot of talk about value and values, which is really important when we think about AI because we can get great value out of it, but there's a values piece of it and it's how we're using it, how we're getting those insights. Because, the one thing, we have this circle, and it's between customer experience, because the companies that do customer experience well are going to excel, they're going to keep their clients, they're going to do amazing things, they're going to become sticky. But, to do that well, you have to be a good custodian of their data and their information, and curated experiences that they want, and not the creepy ones, not the ones they don't want. And so, we really look at that trust is necessary in that ecosystem, in building that, and keeping that with clients. So, that's something that came out of our technology vision. And, in fact, we're going to be talking at the Executive Women's Forum, this is tomorrow, and we're going to be having a panel on AI, and defending it, which will be very interesting. >> Make sure your people film that conference. We'd like to get a view of it on YouTube after. We love those conferences, really insightful. But, I want to get back to what you were talking about, the fun side. >> Yeah. >> You got a lot of new things on, your guys are kicking the tires on, scratching the surface on. You have two operating labs, one in Washington D.C., and one in Israel. What city in Israel? Is it in Tel Aviv or-- >> Herzliya. >> Okay, did not know. >> Yeah, the tech district, just north of Tel Aviv. It's the hotspot. >> So, Silicon Valley, D.C., and Israel, hotbeds of technology now. >> Yes. >> What's coming out of those labs, what's hot? >> Oh, there's so much exciting stuff coming out of our lab in Herzliya. One of the things that we have, and it's something that's been long and coming, it's been brewing for a while, but it's really looking at creating a model of the enterprise security posture. And, when I say a model of it, I'm talking about a cyber digital twin. Because, so much we can't do in our production networks, we don't have the capabilities. We can look around the room, but we don't have the capabilities on the SOCs team side, to ingest all this stuff. We need a playground where we can ask the what-ifs, where we can run high performance analytics, and we do that through a temporal knowledge graph. And, that's a hard thing to achieve, and it's a hard thing to do analytics at scale. So, that's one of the big projects that we're doing out of our Israel lab. >> Are you saying digital twins is a framework for that? >> Yeah. >> Does it really work well with that? >> So the knowledge graph, we can create digital twins around many things, because a digital twin is a model of processes, people, technologies, the statefulness of things, and configurations, whatever you want to pull in there. So, when we start thinking about, what would we take in to create the perfect enterprise security posture? What would give us all the insights? And, then we can ask the questions about, okay, how would an adversary do lateral movement through this? I can't fix everything that's a 10, but I could fix the right ones to reduce the risk impactfully. And, those are the kind of what-ifs that you can do. >> That's real sci-fi stuff, that's right around the corner. >> Yeah, it is. >> That simulation environment. >> It is. >> What-ifs. Oh my god, the company just got hacked, we're out of business. That's your simulation. You could get to, that's the goal, right? >> It absolutely is, to ask those good business questions about the data, and then to report on the risk of it. And, the other thing, as we move to 5G, this problem's getting bigger and bigger, and we're now bringing in very disparate kinds of compute platforms, computing-at-the-edge. And, what does that do to our nice little network model that we had, that our traditional systems are used to defending against? >> I mean, just the segmentation of the network, and the edge opens up so much more aperture-- >> Yes, it does (laughs). >> to the digital twin, or a knowledge graph. You brought up knowledge graph, I want to get your thoughts on this. I was just having dinner last night with an amazing woman out of New York. She's a Ph.D. in computer science. So, we're talking about graphs, and I love riffing on graph databases. But, the topic came up about databases in general, because with the cloud, it's horizontally scalable, you've got all kinds of simulation, a lot of elasticity going on, there's a lot of software being written on this. You got time series database, you got relational database, you got unstructured, and you got graphs. You got to make them all work together. This is kind of the unique challenge. And, with security, leveraging the right database, and the right construct is a super important thing. How do you guys look at that in the labs? Because, is it something that you guys think about, or is it going to be invisible someday? >> Oh, we think about it a lot. In fact, we've had a number of research projects over the last five years now, actually six years, where we've really pivoted hard in cyber security to graph databases. And, the reason for that is, the many-to-many relationships, and what we can do in terms of navigating, asking the questions, pulling on a thread, because in cyber hunting, that's what we're doing. In many of these use cases that we're trying to defend an enterprise, we're following the next new path based on the newest information of now what the challenge is, or what the current configuration is. So, that's really important. So, graph databases enable that so well. Now, there's still the architecture challenge of, okay, when I ask a query, what am I doing? Am I disrupting the whole apple cart? Do I have to process everything over, or is there a way to do that elegantly, where I can ask my query, and because of how I've structured it in storage, I can do it much better, and I can do it much more efficiently. And that, I think, is where the opportunities are. >> I got to tell you, I'm getting exited now on this whole database discussion, because you think about the logic around what you just said. A graph database with that kind of complexity, when you factor in contextually different things happening at any given time, the database needs to be parsed and managed differently. >> Yes. >> That's a huge challenge. >> It is a great research challenge, which is why we're doing it. >> What is that, how far along are we going to be able to have this dynamic, self-evolving, self-governing, self-healing data modeling? Is that coming soon, or... >> Yeah, I hope so. We wrote about it a couple of years ago. >> You did? >> The self-healing enterprise, aspirational. But I think, I mean, we try to get to real time, right? And, we try to get to real time, and again, refactoring. As we talk about what an adversary is going to do, or lateral movement through a business process, we're talking about a lot of computational horsepower to recalculate all that, process it again, update it, and then again present that back. So the number of things we're asking, how we're asking it becomes also very important to the structure. >> Just, it goes zooming up a little bit, high level, what we're really talking about here is value >> of the data. >> Absolutely. >> And, when you get into the valuation of the nodes, and the arcs, and all that graphs, and other databases, you got to know what to pay attention to. It's kind of like going into the hospital and hearing all these alarms going off. At some point you don't know what's, until they hear a flat line, or whatever. >> Right. That's a bad one. >> I mean, well that's obvious. But, now sometimes there's so many alerts, there's so many alarms. How do you understand at any given time what to pay attention to, because obviously when someone's having a problem you want to pay attention to it. If it's a security alert, that's prioritized. >> And the devil is in the analytics, right? What's the question we're asking, and the analytics that give us that prioritization? And that's non-trivial, because there are a lot of other folks that are doing prioritization in a different manner. To do it at scale, and to do it, not just one hop out, but I want to go all the way to the crown jewels, I want that whole path navigated, and I want to know where to cut along that path. That's a hard thing to do. And so, we've actually developed, and we've submitted patents for them, but we've developed new analytics that'll support that. >> Awesome. Well Lisa, I want to ask you kind of a, I'll give you a plug here, just going to get it out, because I think it's important. Skills gap's a big thing, so I want to give you a minute to explain, or share what you're looking for in your hiring. Who are you looking for? What kind of, the make-up of individual, obviously? Maybe, do you use straight, more academic paper kind of people, or practitioners? I mean, when you look to hire, what are some of the priorities that you look for, and who would thrive in an Accenture Lab's environment? >> Oh, my goodness. >> Take a minute to share what you're looking for. >> Yeah, so we love people that think out of the box, and those kinds of people come from very different backgrounds. And so, part of that is, some of them we look for Ph.D.'s, that have wonderful applied skills, and applied is a key word there. White papers are great, I need to be able to prove something, I need to be able to demo something that has value. So, having the applied skills to a business challenge is really important. So, that sort of ground, understanding the business, very important too. But, our talent comes from many different areas. I mean, I kind of joke, my lab looks like the UN, it's wonderful. I have people from across the globe that are in our cyber security lab. I have, in our Washington D.C. lab, we're 50% women, which is also exciting, because we want different experiences, and we shoot for cognitive diversity, right? So, we're looking for people that think differently about solving problems, and are not encumbered by what they've seen in the past, because we're trying to be tip of spear. And, I'm sure you know that from Paul Daugherty. >> Yeah. >> We are trying to be three to five years over the horizon. >> You guys got a good narrative. I always love talking to Accenture, they have a good vision. So, I got to ask you, the next logical question is, obviously, in the news, you see everyone talking about breaches, and ya know, it's not a breach if the door's open, you just walk in. They're really walking in, nothing was really breached, you're just giving it to them. >> Yeah. It's a passive invitation. >> (laughs) Hey come on in. Human error is a big part of it, but then, breach is obviously targeted, phishing, and all that good stuff. But, as those stories get told, there's a whole nother set of stories that aren't being told that are super important. So, I'd love to get your thoughts on, what are the most important stories that we should be talking about that aren't being talked about? >> Yeah, so I have two that are front-of-mind for me. One theme we come back to, and it's not sexy, it's hygiene. It is IT hygiene, and so many of the large companies, and even medium, small companies, we have legacy technology, and keeping that adds complexity, it adds to the whole breadth and depth of what we have to manage and defend. Keeping that attack surface simple and small, cloud-enabled, all those good things, is a real asset and it makes it much easier to defend. So, that's kind of the first non-sexy one, hygiene. The other one I'll say that I think is a challenge that we are not dealing with yet, quantum computing, right? And so, we're on the way to getting our post quantum cryptography in place, but there's another dimension to it, and it's our histories. So, all of the things that have passed on the wire, all the communications with the key exchanges, all that brilliant stuff, is sitting somewhere. Once we get to that point where this becomes very routine, and it's coming fast, we predicted eight years, two years ago. >> So, all that exhaust is somewhere, pent up. >> It's somewhere that, we have to think about how much data we're keeping as custodians, how we're managing it, and then we have to think about the exposure from our past, and say, "Okay, what does that mean that, that was out there?" "Is it aged enough that it doesn't have value?" And, I think there's a real triage that needs to be done, and certainly data management. >> I think, you know, the hygiene brings up a good point. It reminds me of the story Andy Jassy was telling about the mainframe customer that they couldn't find who had the password. They had to find their person, who was retired 10 years earlier to get the password. You don't forget things, but also, there's a human component in all this. Humans and machines are working together. >> Absolutely. >> And. that's a huge part of it. It's not just machines dominating it all, there's going to be a human component, there's a societal impact that we're seeing with information. And, whether that's out in the open, or behind closed doors, there's all kinds of things looming. >> There are, and I think one of the things in the companies that we're seeing who are embracing innovation well, are doing a lot of retraining. Because, the things that people are excellent at, AI is not good at, and the things that AI is good at, are not at all what people are good at. So, the good news is there is a beautiful teaming there, if we retool the skills, or if we re-envision those roles, so that people can get into those roles, and I think that's really important, because I'd rather see AI do all the heavy lifting well, and be trustworthy, and robust and all those great things, and the people be doing the much smarter things that require a human. >> Does the process serve the purpose? Does the purpose serve the process? Same kind of question, right? >> Exactly. >> AI, you can't have great AI that does nothing. >> That's right. >> (laughs) So, it has to be relevant. >> It absolutely does. >> Relevance is kind of a big thing. >> And we own that context, right? Humans own that context. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks for coming in, and sharing the insight. Really appreciate it. Final question, it's always tough to pick your favorite child, but what is your most coolest thing you're working on right now? >> I'll tell you, the cyber digital twin stuff is so cool. >> The what? >> The cyber digital twin stuff is so cool. When you see the power of what that picture, and the analytics can do, we'll show ya. >> Do you have a demo of that now? >> We absolutely do. >> You do. Is it online, or is it more in person you got to see it? >> More in person. >> Okay. >> Folks can reach out, yeah. >> We'll have to get the exclusive on that. >> We do. >> I love those simulations. I think it's very beneficial. >> It is. >> A lot of learning. I mean, who doesn't want practice? >> Well, and a picture, you know that is worth a million dollars. It's just incredible to look at it, and it clicks. It clicks of all the potential things you could ask or do. And, that's the exciting part now, as we show this with customers' and we co-innovate with customers', they're coming up with a laundry list of questions. >> And, this is the beautiful thing about cloud, is that new capabilities are emerging every day, and you could use the good ones. Lisa O'Connor is here. Thank you very much for sharing your insights. Global Security R&D Lead for Accenture Labs. TheCUBE coverage, getting all the signal here on the show floor, extracting that from all the noise. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>from New York. It's the Q covering Escape. 19. >>Welcome back to the Cube coverage here in New York City for the first inaugural multi cloud conference called Escape, where in New York City was staying in New York, were not escaping from New York were in New York. It's all about multi Cloud, and we're here. Lisa Marie Nancy, developer advocate for Port Works, and Eric Conn, vice president of Products Works. Welcome back. Q. >>Thank you, John. Good to see >>you guys. So, um, whenever the first inaugural of anything, we want to get into it and find out why. Multi clouds certainly been kicked around. People have multiple clouds, but is there really multi clouding going on? So this seems to be the theme here about setting the foundation, architecture and data of the two kind of consistent themes. What shared guys take Eric, What's your take on this multi cloud trend? Yeah, >>I think it's something we've all been actively watching for a couple years, and suddenly it is becoming the thing right? So every we just had ah, customer event back in Europe last week, and every customer there is already running multi cloud. It's always something on their consideration. So there's definitely it's not just a discussion topic. It's now becoming a practical reality. So this event's been perfect because it's both the sense of what are people doing, What are they trying to achieve and also the business sense. So it's definitely something that is not necessarily mainstream, but it's becoming much more how they're thinking about building all their applications. Going forward, >>you know, you have almost two camps in the world. Want to get your thoughts on this guy's Because, like you have cloud native and people that are cloud native, they love it. They born the cloud that get it. Everything's cracking along. The developers air on Micro Service's They're agile train with their own micro service's. Then you got the hybrid I t. Trying to be hybrid developer, right? So you kind of have to markets coming together. So to me, I see multi cloud as kind of a combination of old legacy Data center types of I t with cloud native, not just ops and dead. But how about like trying to build developer teams inside enterprises? This seems to be a big trend, and multi club fits into that because now the reality is that I got azure. I got Amazon. Well, let's take a step back and think about the architecture. What's the foundation? So that to me, is more my opinion. But I want to get your thoughts and reactions that because if it's true, that means some new thinking has to come around around. What's the architecture? What are you trying to do? What's the workloads behavior outcome look like? What's the work flows? So there's a whole nother set of conversations that happened. >>I agree. I think the thing that the fight out there right now that we want to make mainstream is that it's a platform choice, and that's the best way to go forward. So it's still an active debate. But the idea could be I want to do multi club, but I'm gonna lock myself into the Cloud Service is if that's the intent or that's the design architecture pattern. You're really not gonna achieve the goals we all set out to do right, So in some ways we have to design ourselves or have the architecture that will let us achieve the business schools that were really going for and that really means from our perspective or from a port works perspective. There's a platform team. That platform team should run all the applications and do so in a multi cloud first design pattern. And so from that perspective, that's what we're doing from a data plan perspective. And that's what we do with Kubernetes etcetera. So from that idea going forward, what we're seeing is that customers do want to build a platform team, have that as the architecture pattern, and that's what we think is going to be the winning strategy. >>Thank you. Also, when you have the definition of cod you have to incorporate, just like with hybrid I t the legacy applications. And we saw that you throughout the years those crucial applications, as we call them People don't always want them to refer to his legacy. But those are crucial applications, and our customers were definitely thinking about how we're gonna run those and where is the right places it on Prem. We're seeing that a lot too. So I think when we talk about multi cloud, we also talk about what What is in your legacy? What is it? Yeah, I >>like I mean I use legacy. I think it's a great word because I think it really puts nail in the coffin of that old way because remember, if you think about some of the large enterprises, these legacy applications, they've been optimized for hardware and optimize their full stack. They've been build up from the ground up, so they're cool. They're running stuff, but it doesn't always translate to see a new platform designed point. So how do you mean Containers is great fit for their Cooper names. Obviously, you know is the answer. We you guys see that as well, but okay, I can keep that and still get this design point. So I guess what I want to ask you guys, as you guys are digging into some of the customer facing conversations, what are they talking about? The day talking about? The platform? Specifically? Certainly, on the security side, we're seeing everyone running away from buying tools to thinking about platforms. What's the conversation like on the cloud side >>way? Did a talk are multiplied for real talk at Barcelona? Q. Khan put your X three on Sudden. Andrew named it for reals of Izzy, but we really wanted to talk about multiplied in the real world. And when we said show of hands in Barcelona, who's running multi cloud? It was very, very few. And this was in, what, five months? Four months ago? Whereas maybe our customers are just really super advanced because of our 100 plus customers. At four words, we Eric is right. A lot of them are already running multi cloud or if not their plan, in the planning stage right now. So even in the last +56 months, this has become a reality. And we're big fans of communities. I don't know if you know Eric was the first product manager for Pernetti. Hey, he's too shy to say it on Dhe. So yeah, and we think, you know, and criminal justice to be the answer to making all They caught a reality right now. >>Well, I want to get back into G, K, E and Cooper. Very notable historic moment. So congratulations, But to your point about multi cloud, it's interesting because, you know, having multiple clouds means things, right? So, for instance, if I upgrade to office 3 65 and I kill my exchange server, I'm essentially running azure by their definition. If I'm building it, stack on AWS. I'm a native, this customer. Let's just say I want to do some tensorflow or play with big table or spanner on Google. Now >>we have three >>clouds now they're not. So they have work clothes, specific objectives. I am totally no problem. I see that like for the progressive customers, some legacy be to be people who like maybe they put their toe in the cloud. But anyone doing meaningful cloud probably has multiple clouds. But that's workload driven when you get into tying them together and is interesting. And I think that's where I think you guys have a great opportunity in this community because if open source convene the gateway to minimize the lock in and when I say lock and I mean like locking them propriety respect if his value their great use it. But if I want to move my data out of the Amazon, >>you brought up so many good points. So let me go through a few and Lisa jumping. I feel like locking. People don't wanna be locked >>in at the infrastructure level. So, like you said, if >>there's value at the higher levels of Stack, and it helps me do my business faster. That's an okay thing to exchange, but it is just locked in and it's not doing anything. They're that's not equal exchange, right, So there's definitely a move from infrastructure up the platform. So locking in >>infrastructure is what people are trying to move away from. >>From what we see from the perspective of legacy, there is a lot of things happening in industry that's pretty exciting of how legacy will also start to running containers. And I'm sure you've seen that. But containers being the basis you could run a BM as well. And so that will mean a lot for in terms of how V EMS can start >>to be matched by orchestrators like kubernetes. So that is another movement for legacy, and I wanted to acknowledge that point >>now, in terms of the patterns, there are definitely applications, like a hybrid pattern where connect the car has to upload all its data once it docks into its location and move it to the data center. So there are patterns where the workflow does move the ups are the application data between on Prem into a public cloud, for instance, and then coming back from that your trip with Lisa. There is also examples where regulations require companies to enterprise is to be able to move to another cloud in a reasonable time frame. So there's definitely a notion of Multi Cloud is both an architectural design pattern. But it's also a sourcing strategy, and that sourcing strategy is more regulation type o. R. In terms of not being locked in. And that's where I'm saying it's all those things. I'd >>love to get your thoughts on this because I like where you're going with this because it kind of takes it to a level of okay, standardization, kubernetes nights, containers, everyone knows what that is. But then you start talking about a P I gateways, for instance, right? So if I'm a car and I have five different gateways on my device, I ot devices or I have multiple vendors dealing with control playing data that could be problematic. I gotta do something like that. So I'm starting. Envision them? I just made that news case up, but my point is is that you need some standards. So on the a p I side was seeing some trends there. One saying, Okay, here's my stuff. I'll just pass parameters with FBI State and stateless are two dynamics. What do you make of that? What, What? What has to happen next to get to that next level of happiness and goodness? Because Bernays, who's got it, got it there, >>right? I feel that next level. I feel like in Lisa, Please jump. And I feel like from automation perspective, Kubernetes has done that from a P I gateway. And what has to happen next. There's still a lot of easy use that isn't solved right. There's probably tons of opportunities out there to build a much better user experience, both from the operations point of view and from what I'm trying to do is an intense because what people aren't gonna automate right now is the intent. They automate a lot of the infrastructure manual tasks, and that's goodness. But from how I docked my application, how the application did it gets moved. We're still at the point of making policy driven, easy to use, and I think there's a lot of opportunities for everyone to get better there. That's like low priority loving fruitcake manual stuff >>and communities was really good at the local food. That's a really use case that you brought up. Really. People were looking at the data now and when you're talking about persistent mean kun is his great for stateless, but for state full really crucial data. So that's where we really come in. And a number of other companies in the cloud native storage ecosystem come in and have really fought through this problem and that data management problem. That's where this platform that Aaron was talking to that >>state problem. Talk about your company. I want to go back to to, um, Google Days. Um, many war stories around kubernetes will have the same fate as map reduce. Yeah, the debates internally at Google. What do we do with it? You guys made the good call. Congratulations on doing that. What was it like to be early on? Because you already had large scale. You were already had. Borg already had all these things in place. Um, it wasn't like there was what was, >>Well, a few things l say one is It was intense, right? It was intense in the sense that amazing amount of intelligence amazing amount of intent, and right back then a lot of things were still undecided, right? We're still looking at how containers or package we're still looking at how infrastructure kit run and a lot of service is were still being rolled out. So what it really meant is howto build something that people want to build, something that people want to run with you and how to build an ecosystem community. A lot of that the community got was done very well, right? You have to give credit to things like the Sig. A lot of things like how people like advocates like Lisa had gone out and made it part of what they're doing. And that's important, right? Every ecosystem needs to have those advocates, and that's what's going well, a cz ah flip side. I think there's a lot of things where way always look back, in which we could have done a few things differently. But that's a different story for different. Today >>I will come back in the studio Palop of that. I gotta ask you now that you're outside. Google was a culture shock. Oh my God! People actually provisioning software provisioning data center culture shock when there's a little >>bit of culture shock. One thing is, and the funny thing is coming full circle in communities now, is that the idea of an application? Right? The idea of what is an application eyes, something that feels very comfortable to a lot of legacy traditional. I wanna use traditional applications, but the moment you're you've spent so much time incriminates and you say, What's the application? It became a very hard thing, and I used to have a lot of academic debates. Where is saying there is no application? It's It's a soup of resources and such. So that was a hard thing. But funny thing is covered, as is now coming out with definitions around application, and Microsoft announced a few things in that area to so there are things that are coming full circle, but that just shows how the movement has changed and how things are becoming in some ways meeting each other halfway. >>Talk about the company, what you guys are doing. Take a moment. Explain in context to multi cloud. We're here. Port works. What's the platform? It's a product. What's the value proposition? What's the state of the company. >>So the companies? Uh well, well, it's grown from early days when Lisa and I joined where we're probably a handful now. We're in four or five cities. Geography ease over 100 people over 150 customers and there. It's been a lot of enterprises that are saying, like, How do I take this pattern of doing containers and micro service is And how do I run it with my mission? Critical business crinkle workloads. And at that point, there is no mission critical business critical workload that isn't stable so suddenly they're trying to say, How do I run These applications and containers and data have different life cycles. So what they're really looking for is a data plane that works with the control planes and how controlled planes are changing the behavior. So a lot of our technology and a lot of our product innovation has been around both the data plane but a storage control plane that integrates with a computer controlled plane. So I know we like to talk about one control plane. There's actually multiple control planes, and you mentioned security, right? If I look at how applications are running way after now securely access for applications, and it's no longer have access to the data. Before I get to use it, you have to now start to do things like J W. T. Or much higher level bearer tokens to say, I know how to access this application for this life cycle for this use case and get that kind of resiliency. So it's really around having that storage. More complexity absolutely need abstraction >>layers, and you got compute. Look, leading work there. But you gotta have >>software to do it from a poor works perspective. Our products entirely software right down loans and runs using kubernetes. And so the point here is we make remarries able to run all the staple workloads out of the box using the same comment control plane, which is communities. So that's the experiences that we really want to make it so that Dev Ops teams can run anywhere close. And that's that's in some ways been part of the mix. Lisa, >>we've been covering Dev up, going back to 2010. Remember when I first was hanging around San Francisco 2008 joint was coming out the woodwork and all that early days and you look at the journey of how infrastructures code We talked about that in 2008 and now we'll get 11 years later. Look at the advancements you've been through this now The tipping point. It's just seems like this wave is big and people are on it. The developers air getting it. It's a modern renaissance of application developers, and the enterprises it's happening in the enterprise is not just like the nerds Tier one, the Alfa Geeks or >>the Cloud native. It's happening in the >>everyone's on board this time, and you and I have been in the trenches in the early stages of many open source projects. And I think with with kubernetes Arab reference of community earlier, I'm super proud to be running the world's largest CNC F for user group. And it's a great community, a diverse community, super smart people. One of my favorite things about working for works is we have some really smart engineers that have figured out what companies want, how to solve problems, and then we'll go creative. It'll open source projects. We created a project called autopilot, really largely because one of our customers, every who's in the G s space and who's running just incredible application. You can google it and see what the work they're doing. It's all there publicly, Onda We built, you know, we built an open source project for them to help them get the most out of kubernetes. We can say so. There's a lot of people in the community system doing that. How can we make communities better halfway make commitments, enterprise grade and not take years to do that? Like some of the other open source projects that we worked on, it took. So it's a super exciting time to be here, >>and open source is growing so fast now. I mean, just think about how these projects being structured. Maur and Maur projects are coming online and user price, but a lot more vendor driven projects to use be mostly and used, but now you have a lot of vendors who are users. So the line is blurring between Bender User in Open source is really fascinating. >>Well, you look at the look of the landscape on the C N. C f. You know the website. I mean, it's what 400 that are already on board. It's really important. >>They don't have enough speaking slasher with >>right. I know, and it's just it. It is users and vendors. Everybody's in this community together. It's one of things that makes it super exciting. And it it's how we know this is This was the right choice for us to base this on communities because that's what everybody, you guys >>are practically neighbors. So we're looking for seeing the studio. Palo Alto Eric, I want to ask you one final question on the product side. Road map. What you guys thinking As Kubernetes goes, the next level state, a lot of micro service is observe abilities becoming a key part of it, Obviously, automation, configuration management things are developing fast. State. What's the What's the road map for you guys? >>For us, it's been always about howto handle the mission critical and make that application run seamlessly. And then now we've done a lot of portability. So disaster recovery has been one of the biggest things for us is that customers are saying, How do I do a hybrid pattern back to your earlier question of running on Prem and in Public Cloud and do a d. R. Pale over into some of the things at least, is pointing out that we're announcing soon is non series autopilot in the idea, automatically managing applications scale from a volume capacity. And then we're actually going to start moving a lot more into some of the what you do with data after the life cycle in terms of backup and retention. So those are the things that everyone's been pushing us and the customers are all asking for. You >>know, I think data they were back in recovery is interesting. I think that's going to change radically. And I think we look at the trend of how yeah, data backup and recovery was built. It was built because of disruption of business, floods, our gains, data center failure. But I think the biggest disruptions ransomware that malware. So security is now a active disruptor. So it's not like it after the hey, if we ever have, ah, fire, we can always roll back. So you're infected and you're just rolling back infected code. That's a ransomware dream. That's what's going on. So I think data protection it needs to be >>redefined. What do you think? Absolutely. I think there's a notion of How do I get last week's data last month? And then oftentimes customers will say, If I have a piece of data volume and I suddenly have to delete it, I still need to have some record of that action for a long time, right? So those are the kinds of things that are happening and his crew bearnaise and everything. It gets changed. Suddenly. The important part is not what was just that one pot it becomes. How do I reconstruct everything? What action is not one thing. It's everywhere. That's right and protected all through the platform. If it was a platform decision, it's not some the cattlemen on the side. You can't be a single lap. It has to be entire solution. And it has to handle things like, Where do you come from? Where is it allowed to go? And you guys have that philosophy. We absolutely, and it's based on the enterprises that are adopting port works and saying, Hey, this is my romance. I'm basing it on Kubernetes. You're my date a partner. We make it happen. >>This speaks to your point of why the enterprise is in. The vendors jumped in this is what people care about Security. How do you solve this last mile problem? Storage. Networking. How do you plug those holes in Kubernetes? Because that is crucial to our >>personal private moment. Victory moment for me personally, was been a big fan of Cuban is absolutely, you know, for years. Then there were created, talked about one. The moments that got me that was really kind of a personal, heartfelt moment was enterprise buyer. And, you know, the whole mindset in the Enterprise has always been You gotta kill the old to bring in the new. And so there's always been that tension of a you know, the shiny new toy from Silicon Valley or whatever. You know, I'm not gonna just trash this and have a migration za paying that. But for I t, they don't want that to do that. They hate doing migrations, but with containers and kubernetes that could actually they don't to end of life to bring in the new project. They can do it on their own timetable or keep it around. So that took a lot of air out of the tension in on the I t. Side because they say great I can deal with the lifecycle management, my app on my own terms and go play with Cloud native and said to me, that's like that was to be like, Okay, there it is. That was validation. That means this Israel because now they can innovate without compromising. >>I think so. And I think some of that has been how the ecosystems embrace it, right. So now it's becoming all the vendors are saying my internal stack is also based on community. So even if you as an application owner or not realizing it, you're gonna take a B M next year and you're gonna run it and it's gonna be back by something like awesome. Lisa >>Marie Nappy Eric on Thank you for coming on Port Works Hot start of multiple cities Kubernetes big developer Project Open Source. Talking about multi cloud here at the inaugural Multi cloud conference in New York City. It's the Cube Courage of escape. 2019. I'm John Period. Thanks for watching