>>Good afternoon, everyone. And welcome back to the VMware Explorer. 2022 live from San Francisco. Lisa Martin, here with Dave. Valante good to be sitting next to you, sir. >>Yeah. Yeah. The big set >>And we're very excited to be welcoming buck. One of our esteemed alumni Sanja poin joins us, the CEO and president of cohesive. Nice to see >>You. Thank you, Lisa. Thank you, Dave. It's great to meet with you all the time and the new sort of setting here, but first >>Time, first time we've been in west, is that right? We've been in north. We've been in south. We've been in Las Vegas, right. But west, >>I mean, it's also good to be back with live shows with absolutely, you know, after sort of the two or three or hiatus. And it was a hard time for the whole world, but I'm kind of driving a little bit of adrenaline just being here with people. So >>You've also got some adrenaline, sorry, Dave. Yeah, you're good because you are new in the role at cohesive. You wrote a great blog that you are identified. The four reasons I came to cohesive. Tell the audience, just give 'em a little bit of a teaser about that. >>Yeah, I think you should all read it. You can Google and, and Google find that article. I talked about the people Mohi is a fantastic founder. You know, he was the, you know, the architect of the Google file system. And you know, one of the senior Google executives was on my board. Bill Corrin said one of the smartest engineers. He was the true father of hyperconverge infrastructure. A lot of the code of Nutanix. He wrote, I consider him really the father of that technology, which brought computer storage. And when he took that same idea of bringing compute to secondary storage, which is really what made the scale out architect unique. And we were at your super cloud event talking about that, Dave. Yeah. Right. So it's a people I really got to respect his smarts, his integrity and the genius, what he is done. I think the customer base, I called a couple of customers. One of them, a fortune 100 customer. I, I can't tell you who it was, but a very important customer. I've known him. He said, I haven't seen tech like this since VMware, 20 years ago, Amazon 10 years ago and now Ko. So that's special league. We're winning very much in the enterprise and that type of segment, the partners, you know, we have HPE, Cisco as investors. Amazon's an investors. So, you know, and then finally the opportunity, I think this whole area of data management and data security now with threats, like ransomware big opportunity. >>Okay. So when you were number two at VMware, you would come on and say, we'd love all our partners and of course, okay. So you know, a little bit about how to work with, with VMware. So, so when you now think about the partnership between cohesive and VMware, what are the things that you're gonna stress to your constituents on the VMware side to convince them that Hey, partnering with cohesive is gonna gonna drive more value for customers, you know, put your thumb on the scale a little bit. You know, you gotta, you gotta unfair advantage somewhat, but you should use it. So what's the narrative gonna be like? >>Yeah, I think listen with VMware and Amazon, that probably their top two partners, Dave, you know, like one of the first calls I made was to Raghu and he knew about this decision before. That's the level of trust I have in him. I even called Michael Dell, you know, before I made the decision, there's a little bit of overlap with Dell, but it's really small compared to the overlap, the potential with Dell hardware that we could compliment. And then I called four CEOs. I was, as I was making this decision, Andy Jassey at Amazon, he was formerly AWS CEO sat Nadela at Microsoft Thomas cor at Google and Arvin Christian, IBM to say, I'm thinking about this making decision. They are many of the mentors and friends to me. So I believe in an ecosystem. And you know, even Chuck Robbins, who the CEO of Cisco is an investor, I texted him and said, Hey, finally, we can be friends. >>It was harder to us to be friends with Cisco, given the overlap of NSX. So I have a big tent towards everybody in our ecosystem with VMware. I think the simple answer is there's no overlap okay. With, with the kind of the primary storage capabilities with VSAN. And by the same thing with Nutanix, we will be friends and, and extend that to be the best data protection solution. But given also what we could do with security, I think this is gonna go a lot further. And then it's all about meet the field. We have common partners. I think, you know, sort of the narrative I talked about in that blog is just like snowflake was replacing Terada and ServiceNow replace remedy and CrowdStrike, replacing Symantec, we're replacing legacy vendors. We are viewed as the modern solution cloud optimized for private and public cloud. We can help you and make VMware and vs a and VCF very relevant to that part of the data management and data security continuum, which I think could end VMware. And by the way, the same thing into the public cloud. So most of the places where we're being successful is clearly withs, but increasingly there's this discussion also about playing into the cloud. So I think both with VMware and Amazon, and of course the other partners in the hyperscaler service, storage, networking place and security, we have some big plans. >>How, how much do you see this? How do you see this multi-cloud narrative that we're hearing here from, from VMware evolving? How much of an opportunity is it? How are customers, you know, we heard about cloud chaos yesterday at the keynote, are customers, do they, do they admit that there's cloud chaos? Some probably do some probably don't how much of an opportunity is that for cohesive, >>It's tremendous opportunity. And I think that's why you need a Switzerland type player in this space to be successful. And you know, and you can't explicitly rule out the fact that the big guys get into this space, but I think it's, if you're gonna back up office 365 or what they call now, Microsoft 365 into AWS or Google workspace into Azure or Salesforce into one of those clouds, you need a Switzerland player. It's gonna be hard. And in many cases, if you're gonna back up data or you protect that data into AWS banks need a second copy of that either on premise or Azure. So it's very hard, even if they have their own native data protection for them to be dual cloud. So I think a multi-cloud story and the fact that there's at least three big vendors of cloud in, in the us, you know, one in China, if include Alibaba creates a Switzerland opportunity for us, that could be fairly big. >>And I think, you know, what we have to do is make sure while we'll be optimized, our preferred cloud is AWS. Our control plane runs there. We can't take an all in AWS stack with the control plane and the data planes at AWS to Walmart. So what I've explained to both Microsoft and AWS is that data plane will need to be multi-cloud. So I can go to an, a Walmart and say, I can back up your data into Azure if you choose to, but the control plane's still gonna be an AWS, same thing with Google. Maybe they have another account. That's very Google centric. So that's how we're gonna believe the, the control plane will be in AWS. We'll optimize it there, but the data plane will be multicloud. >>Yeah. And that's what Mo had explained at Supercloud. You know, and I talked to him, he really helped me hone in on the deployment models. Yes. Where, where, where the cohesive deployment model is instantiating that technology stack into each cloud region and each cloud, which gives you latency advantages and other advantages >>And single code based same platform. >>And then bringing it, tying it together with a unified, you know, interface. That was he, he was, he was key. In fact, I, I wrote about it recently and, and gave him and the other 29 >>Quite a bit in that session, he went deep with you. I >>Mean, with Mohi, when you get a guy who developed a Google file system, you know, who can technically say, okay, this is technically correct or no, Dave, your way off be. So I that's why I had to >>Go. I, I thought you did a great job in that interview because you probed him pretty deep. And I'm glad we could do that together with him next time. Well, maybe do that together here too, but it was really helpful. He's the, he's the, he's the key reason I'm here. >>So you say data management is ripe for disrupt disruption. Talk about that. You talked about this Switzerland effect. That sounds to me like a massive differentiator for cohesive. Why is data management right for disruption and why is cohesive the right partner to do it? >>Yeah, I think, listen, everyone in this sort of data protection backup from years ago have been saying the S Switzerland argument 18 years ago, I was a at Veras an executive there. We used the Switzerland argument, but what's changed is the cloud. And what's changed as a threat vector in security. That's, what's changed. And in that the proposition of a, a Switzerland player has just become more magnified because you didn't have a sales force or Workday service now then, but now you do, you didn't have multi-cloud. You had hardware vendors, you know, Dell, HPE sun at the time. IBM, it's now Lenovo. So that heterogeneity of, of on-premise service, storage, networking, HyperCloud, and, and the apps world has gotten more and more diverse. And I think you really need scale out architectures. Every one of the legacy players were not built with scale out architectures. >>If you take that fundamental notion of bringing compute to storage, you could almost paralyze. Imagine you could paralyze backup recovery and bring so much scale and speed that, and that's what Mo invented. So he took that idea of how he had invented and built Nutanix and applied that to secondary storage. So now everything gets faster and cheaper at scale. And that's a disruptive technology ally. What snowflake did to ator? I mean, the advantage of snowflake is when you took that same concept data, warehousing is not a new concept it's existed from since Ralph Kimball and bill Inman and the people who are fathers of data warehousing, they took that to Webscale. And in that came a disruptive force toter data, right on snowflake. And then of course now data bricks and big query, similar things. So we're doing the same thing. We just have to showcase the customers, which we do. And when large customers see that they're replacing the legacy solutions, I have a lot of respect for legacy solutions, but at some point in time of a solution was invented in 1995 or 2000, 2005. It's right. For change. >>So you use snowflake as an example, Frank SL doesn't like when I say playbook, cuz I says, Dave, I'm a situational CEO, no playbook, but there are patterns here. And one of the things he did is to your point go after, you know, Terra data with a better data warehouse, simplify scale, et cetera. And now he's, he's a constructing a Tam expansion strategy, same way he did at ServiceNow. And I see you guys following a similar pattern. Okay. You get your foot in the door. Let's face it. I mean, a lot of this started with, you know, just straight back. Okay, great. Now it's extending into data management now extending to multi-cloud that's like concentric circles in a Tam expansion strategy. How, how do you, as, as a CEO, that's part of your job is Tam expansion. >>So yeah, I think the way to think about the Tam is, I mean, people say it's 20, 30 billion, but let me tell you how you can piece it apart in size, Dave and Lisa number one, I estimate there's probably about 10 to 20 exabytes of data managed by these legacy players of on-prem stores that they back up to. Okay. So you add them all up in the market shares that they respectively are. And by the way, at the peak, the biggest of these companies got to 2 billion and then shrunk. That was Verto when I was there in 2004, 2 billion, every one of them is small and they stopped growing. You look at the IDC charts. Many of them are shrinking. We are the fastest growing in the last two years, but I estimate there's about 20 exabytes of data that collectively among the legacy players, that's either gonna stay on prem or move to the cloud. Okay. So the opportunity as they replace one of those legacy tools with us is first off to manage that 20 X by cheaper, faster with the Webscale glass offer the cloud guys, we could tip that into the cloud. Okay. >>But you can't stop there. >>Okay. No, we are not doing just backup recovery. We have a platform that can do files. We can do test dev analytics and now security. Okay. That data is potentially at a risk, not so much in the past, but for ransomware, right? How do we classify that? How do we govern that data? How do we run potential? You know, the same way you did antivirus some kind of XDR algorithms on the data to potentially not just catch the recovery process, which is after fact, but maybe the predictive act of before to know, Hey, there's somebody loitering around this data. So if I'm basically managing in the exabytes of data and I can proactively tell you what, this is, one CIO described this very simply to me a few weeks ago that I, and she said, I have 3000 applications, okay. I wanna be prepared for a black Swan event, except it's not a nine 11 planes getting the, the buildings. >>It is an extortion event. And I want to know when that happens, which of my 3000 apps I recover within one hour within one day within one week, no later than one month. Okay. And I don't wanna pay the bad guys at penny. That's what we do. So that's security discussions. We didn't have that discussion in 2004 when I was at another company, because we were talking about flood floods and earthquakes as a disaster recovery. Now you have a lot more security opportunity to be able to describe that. And that's a boardroom discussion. She needs to have that >>Digital risk. O O okay, go ahead please. I >>Was just gonna say, ransomware attack happens every what? One, every 11, 9, 11 seconds. >>And the dollar amount are going up, you know, dollar are going up. Yep. >>And, and when you pay the ransom, you don't always get your data back. So you that's not. >>And listen, there's always an ethical component. Should you do it or not do it? If you, if you don't do it and you're threatened, they may have left an Easter egg there. Listen, I, I feel very fortunate that I've been doing a lot in security, right? I mean, I built the business at, at, at VMware. We got it to over a billion I'm on the board of sneak. I've been doing security and then at SAP ran. So I know a lot about security. So what we do in security and the ecosystem that supports us in security, we will have a very carefully crafted stay tuned. Next three weeks months, you'll see us really rolling out a very kind of disciplined aspect, but we're not gonna pivot this company and become a cyber security company. Some others in our space have done that. I think that's not who we are. We are a data management and a data security company. We're not just a pure security company. We're doing both. And we do it well, intelligently, thoughtfully security is gonna be built into our platform, not voted on. Okay. And there'll be certain security things that we do organically. There's gonna be a lot that we do through partnerships, this >>Security market that's coming to you. You don't have to go claim that you're now a security vendor, right? The market very naturally saying, wow, a comprehensive security strategy has to incorporate a data protection strategy and a recovery, you know, and the things that we've talking about Mount ransomware, I want to ask you, you I've been around a long time, longer than you actually Sanjay. So, but you you've, you've seen a lot. You look, >>Thank you. That's all good. Oh, >>Shucks. So the market, I've never seen a market like this, right? I okay. After the.com crash, we said, and I know you can't talk about IPO. That's not what I'm talking about, but everything was bad after that. Right. 2008, 2000, everything was bad. I've never seen a market. That's half full, half empty, you know, snowflake beats and raises the stock, goes through the roof. Dev if it, if the area announced today, Mongo, DB, beat and Ray, that things getting crushed and, and after market never seen anything like this. It's so fed, driven and, and hard to protect. And, and of course, I know it's a marathon, you know, it's not a sprint, but have you ever seen anything like this? >>Listen, I walk worked through 18 quarters as COO of VMware. You've seen where I've seen public quarters there and you know, was very fortunate. Thanks to the team. I don't think I missed my numbers in 18 quarters except maybe once close. But we, it was, it's tough. Being a public company of the company is tough. I did that also at SAP. So the journey from 10 to 20 billion at SAP, the journey from six to 12 at VMware, that I was able to be fortunate. It's humbling because you, you really, you know, we used to have this, we do the earnings call and then we kind of ask ourselves, what, what do you think the stock price was gonna be a day and a half later? And we'd all take bets as to where this, I think you just basically, as a, as a sea level executive, you try to build a culture of beaten, raise, beaten, raise, beaten, raise, and you wanna set expectations in a way that you're not setting them up for failure. >>And you know, it's you, there's, Dave's a wonderful CEO as is Frank Salman. So it's hard for me to dissect. And sometimes the market are fickle on some small piece of it. But I think also the, when I, I encourage people say, take the long term view. When you take the long term view, you're not bothered about the ups and downs. If you're building a great company over the length of time, now it will be very clear over the arc of many, many quarters that you're business is trouble. If you're starting to see a decay in growth. And like, for example, when you start to see a growth, start to decay significantly by five, 10 percentage points, okay, there's something macro going on at this company. And that's what you won't avoid. But these, you know, ups and downs, my view is like, if you've got both Mongo D and snowflake are fantastic companies, they're CEOs of people I respect. They've actually kind of an, a, you know, advisor to us as a company, you knows moat very well. So we respect him, respect Frank, and you, there have been other quarters where Frank's, you know, the Snowflake's had a down result after that. So you build a long term and they are on the right side of history, snowflake, and both of them in terms of being a modern cloud relevant in the case of MongoDB, open source, two data technology, that's, you know, winning, I, I, we would like to be like them one day >>As, as the new CEO of cohesive, what are you most ask? What are you most anxious about and what are you most excited about? >>I think, listen, you know, you know, everything starts with the employee. You, I always believe I wrote my first memo to all employees. There was an article in Harvard business review called service profit chains that had a seminal impact on my leadership, which is when they studied companies who had been consistently profitable over a long period of time. They found that not just did those companies serve their customers well, but behind happy engaged customers were happy, engaged employees. So I always believe you start with the employee and you ensure that they're engaged, not just recruiting new employees. You know, I put on a tweet today, we're hiring reps and engineers. That's okay. But retaining. So I wanna start with ensuring that everybody, sometimes we have to make some unfortunate decisions with employees. We've, we've got a part company with, but if we can keep the best and brightest retained first, then of course, you know, recruiting machine, I'm trying to recruit the best and brightest to this company, people all over the place. >>I want to get them here. It's been, so I mean, heartwarming to come Tom world and just see people from all walks, kind of giving me hugs. I feel incredibly blessed. And then, you know, after employees, it's customers and partners, I feel like the tech is in really good hands. I don't have to worry about that. Cuz Mo it's in charge. He's got this thing. I can go to bed knowing that he's gonna keep innovating the future. Maybe in some of the companies I've worried about the tech innovation piece, but most doing a great job there. I can kind of leave that in his cap of hands, but employees, customers, partners, that's kind of what I'm focused on. None of them are for me, like a keep up at night, but there are are opportunities, right? And sometimes there's somebody you're trying to salvage to make sure or somebody you're trying to convince to join. >>But you know, customers, I love pursuing customers. I love the win. I hate to lose. So fortune 1000 global, 2000 companies, small companies, big companies, I wanna win every one of them. And it's not, it's not like, I mean, I know all these CEOs in my competitors. I texted him the day I joined and said, listen, I'll compete, honorably, whatever have you, but it's like Kobe and LeBron Kobe's passed away now. So maybe it's Steph Curry. LeBron, whoever your favorite athlete is you put your best on the court and you win. And that's how I am. That's nothing I've known no other gear than to put my best on the court and win, but do it honorably. It should not be the one that you're doing it. Unethically. You're doing it personally. You're not calling people's names. You're competing honorably. And when you win the team celebrates, it's not a victory for me. It's a victory for the team. >>I always think I'm glad that you brought up the employee experience and we're almost out of time, but I always think the employee experience and the customer experience are inextricably linked. This employees have to be empowered. They have to have the data that they need to do their job so that they can deliver to the customer. You can't do one without the other. >>That's so true. I mean, I, it's my belief. And I've talked also on this show and others about servant leadership. You know, one of my favorite poems is Brenda Naor. I went to bed in life. I dreamt that life was joy. I woke up and realized life was service. I acted in service was joy. So when you have a leadership model, which is it's about, I mean, there's lots of layers between me and the individual contributor, but I really care about that sales rep and the engineer. That's the leaf level of the organization. What can I get obstacle outta their way? I love skipping levels of going right. That sales rep let's go and crack this deal. You know? So you have that mindset. Yeah. I mean, you, you empower, you invert the pyramid and you realize the power is at the leaf level of an organization. >>So that's what I'm trying to do. It's a little easier to do it with 2000 people than I dunno, either 20, 20, 2000 people or 35,000 reported me at VMware. And I mean a similar number at SAP, which was even bigger, but you can shape this. Now we are, we're not a startup anymore. We're a midsize company. We'll see. Maybe along the way, there's an IP on the path. We'll wait for that. When it comes, it's a milestone. It's not the destination. So we do that and we are, we, I told people we are gonna build this green company. Cohesive is gonna be a great company like VMware one day, like Amazon. And there's always a day of early beginnings, but we have to work harder. This is kind of like the, you know, eight year old version of your kid, as opposed to the 18 year old version of the kid. And you gotta work a little harder. So I love it. Yeah. >>Good luck. Awesome. Thank you. Best of luck. Congratulations. On the role, it sounds like there's a tremendous amount of adrenaline, a momentum carrying you forward Sanjay. We always appreciate having you. Thank >>You for having in your show. >>Thank you. Our pleasure, Lisa. Thank you for Sanja poin and Dave ante. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cube live from VMware Explorer, 2022, stick around our next guest. Join us momentarily.

>>Good afternoon, everyone. And welcome back to the Cube's day two coverage of VMware Explorer, 2022 live from San Francisco. Lisa Martin, here with Dave. Valante good to be sitting next to you, sir. >>Yeah, the big >>Set and we're very excited to be welcoming back. One of our esteemed alumni Sanja poin joins us, the CEO and president of cohesive. Nice to see >>You. Thank you, Lisa. Thank you, Dave. It's great to meet with you all the time and the new sort of setting here, but >>First time we've been in west, is that right? We've been in north. We've been in south. We've been in Las Vegas, right. But west >>Nice. Well, I mean, it's also good to be back with live shows with absolutely, you know, after sort of the two or three or high. And it was a hard time for the whole world, but I'm kind of driving a little bit of adrenaline just being here with people. So >>You've also got some adrenaline, sorry, Dave. Yeah, you're good because you are new in the role at cohesive. You wrote a great blog that you are identified. The four reasons I came to cohesive. Tell the audience, just give 'em a little bit of a teaser about that. >>Yeah, I think you should all read it. You can Google and, and Google find that article. I talked about the people Mohi is a fantastic founder. You know, he was the, you know, the architect of the Google file system. And you know, one of the senior Google executives who was on my board, bill Corrin said one of the smartest engineers. He was the true father of hyperconverge infrastructure. A lot of the code of Nutanix. He wrote, I consider him really the father of that technology, which brought computer storage. And when he took that same idea of bringing compute to secondary storage, which is really what made the scale out architect unique. And we were at your super cloud event talking about that, Dave. Yeah. Right. So it's a people I really got to respect his smarts, his integrity and the genius, what he is done. >>I think the customer base, I called a couple of customers. One of them, a fortune 100 customer. I, I can't tell you who it was, but a very important customer. I've known him. He said, I haven't seen tech like this since VMware, 20 years ago, Amazon 10 years ago. And now COER so that's special league. We're winning very much in the enterprise and that type of segment, the partners, you know, we have HPE, Cisco as investors, Amazon's an investors. So, you know, and then finally the opportunity, I think this whole area of data management and data security now with threats, like ransomware big opportunity. >>Sure. Okay. So when you were number two at VMware, you would come on and say, we'd love all our partners and of course, okay. So you know, a little bit about how to work with, with VMware. So, so when you now think about the partnership between cohesive and VMware, what are the things that you're gonna stress to your constituents on the VMware side to convince them that Hey, partnering with cohesive is gonna gonna drive more value for customers, you know, put your thumb on the scale a little bit. You know, you gotta, you gotta unfair advantage somewhat, but you should use it. So what's the narrative gonna be like? >>Yeah. I think listen with VMware and Amazon, that probably their top two partners, Dave, you know, like one of the first calls I made was to Raghu and he knew about this decision before. That's the level of trust I have in him. I even called Michael Dell, you know, before I made the decision, there's a little bit of an overlap with Dell, but it's really small compared to the overlap, the potential with Dell hardware that we could compliment. And then I called four CEOs. I was, as I was making this decision, Andy Jassy at Amazon, he was formerly AWS CEO sat Nadela at Microsoft Thomas cor at Google and Arvin Christian at IBM to say, I'm thinking about this making decision. They are many of the mentors and friends to me. So I believe in an ecosystem. And you know, even Chuck Robbins, who the CEO of Cisco is an investor, I texted him and said, Hey, finally, we can be friends. >>It was harder to us to be friends with Cisco, given the overlap of NEX. So I have a big tent towards everybody in our ecosystem with VMware. I think the simple answer is there's no overlap okay. With, with the kind of the primary storage capabilities with VSAN. And by the same thing with Nutanix, we will be friends and, and extend that to be the best data protection solution. But given also what we could do with security, I think this is gonna go a lot further. And then it's all about meet in the field. We have common partners. I think, you know, sort of the narrative I talked about in that blog is just like snowflake was replacing Terada and ServiceNow replace remedy and CrowdStrike, replacing Symantec, we're replacing legacy vendors. We are viewed as the modern solution cloud optimized for private and public cloud. We can help you and make VMware and VSAN and VCF very relevant to that part of the data management and data security continuum, which I think could enhance VMware. And by the way, the same thing into the public cloud. So most of the places where we're being successful is clearly withs, but increasingly there's this discussion also about playing into the cloud. So I think both with VMware and Amazon, and of course the other partners in the hyperscaler service, storage, networking place and security, we have some big plans. >>How, how much do you see this? How do you see this multi-cloud narrative that we're hearing here from, from VMware evolving? How much of an opportunity is it? How are customers, you know, we heard about cloud chaos yesterday at the keynote, are customers, do they, do they admit that there's cloud chaos? Some probably do some probably don't how much of an opportunity is that for cohesive, >>It's tremendous opportunity. And I think that's why you need a Switzerland type player in this space to be successful. And you know, and you can't explicitly rule out the fact that the big guys get into this space, but I think it's, if you're gonna back up office 365 or what they call now, Microsoft 365 into AWS or Google workspace into Azure or Salesforce into one of those clouds, you need a Switzerland player it's gonna be out. And in many cases, if you're gonna back up data or you protect that data into AWS banks need a second copy of that either on premise or Azure. So it's very hard, even if they have their own native data protection for them to be dual cloud. So I think a multi-cloud story and the fact that there's at least three big vendors of cloud in, in the us, you know, one in China, if include Alibaba creates a Switzerland opportunity for us, that could be fairly big. >>And I think, you know, what we have to do is make sure while we'll be optimized, our preferred cloud is AWS. Our control plane runs there. We can't take an all in AWS stack with the control plane and the data planes at AWS to Walmart. So what I've explained to both Microsoft and AWS is that data plane will need to be multicloud. So I can go to an a Walmart and say, I can back up your data into Azure if you choose to, but the control, plane's still gonna be an AWS, same thing with Google. Maybe they have another account. That's very Google centric. So that's how we're gonna play the, the control plane will be in AWS. We'll optimize it there, but the data plane will be multi-cloud. >>Yeah. And that's what Mo had explained at Supercloud. You know, and I talked to, he really helped me hone in on the deployment models. Yes. Where, where, where the cohesive deployment model is instantiating that technology stack into each cloud region and each cloud, which gives you latency advantages and other advantages >>And single code based same platform, >>And then bringing it, tying it together with a unified, you know, interface. That was he, he was, he was key. In fact, I, I wrote about it recently and, and gave him and the other 20, >>Quite a bit in that session. Yeah. So he went deep with you. I >>Mean, with Mohi, when you get a guy who developed a Google file system, you know, who can technically say, okay, this is technically correct or no, Dave, your way off be so I that's why I had to >>Go. I, I thought you did a great job in that interview because you probed him pretty deep and I'm glad we could do that together with him next time. Well, maybe do that together here too, but it was really helpful. He's the, he's the, he's the key reason I'm here. >>So you say data management is ripe for disrupt disruption. Talk about that. You talked about this Switzerland effect. That sounds to me like a massive differentiator for cohesive. Why is data management right. For disruption and why is cohesive the right partner to do it? >>Yeah, I think, listen, everyone in this sort of data protection backup from years ago have been saying the S Switzerland argument 18 years ago, I was a at Veras an executive there. We used the Switzerland argument, but what's changed is the cloud. And what's changed as a threat vector in security. That's, what's changed. And in that the proposition of a, a Switzerland player has just become more magnified because you didn't have a sales force or Workday service now then, but now you do, you didn't have multi-cloud. You had hardware vendors, you know, Dell, HPE sun at the time. IBM, it's now Lenovo. So that heterogeneity of, of on-premise service, storage, networking, HyperCloud, and, and the apps world has gotten more and more diverse. And I think you really need scale out architectures. Every one of the legacy players were not built with scale out architectures. >>If you take that fundamental notion of bringing compute to storage, you could almost paralyze. Imagine you could paralyze backup recovery and bring so much scale and speed that, and that's what Mo invented. So he took that idea of how he had invented and built Nutanix and applied that to secondary storage. So now everything gets faster and cheaper at scale. And that's a disruptive technology ally. What snowflake did to ator? I mean, the advantage of snowflake is when you took that same concept data, warehousing is not a new concept it's existed from since Ralph Kimble and bill Inman and the people who are fathers of data warehousing, they took that to Webscale. And in that came a disruptive force toter data, right? And snowflake. And then of course now data bricks and big query, similar things. So we're doing the same thing. We just have to showcase the customers, which we do. And when large customers see that they're replacing the legacy solutions, I have a lot of respect for legacy solutions, but at some point in time of a solution was invented in 1995 or 2000, 2005. It's right. For change. >>So you use snowflake as an example, Frank sluman doesn't like when I say playbook, cuz I says, Dave, I'm a situational. See you no playbook, but there are patterns here. And one of the things he did is to your point go after, you know, Terra data with a better data warehouse, simplify scale, et cetera. And now he's, he's a constructing a Tam expansion strategy, same way he did at ServiceNow. And I, you guys following a similar pattern. Okay. You get your foot in the door. Let's face it. I mean, a lot of this started with, you know, just straight back. Okay, great. Now it's extending into data management now extending to multi-cloud that's like concentric circles in a Tam expansion strategy. How, how do as, as a CEO, that's part of your job is Tam expansion. >>So yeah, I think the way to think about the Tam is, I mean, people say it's 20, 30 billion, but let me tell you how you can piece it apart in size, Dave and Lisa number one, I estimate there's probably about 10 to 20 exabytes of data managed by these legacy players of on-prem stores that they back up to. Okay. So you add them all up in the market shares that they respectively are. And by the way, at the peak, the biggest of these companies got to 2 billion and then shrunk. That was Verto when I was there in 2004, 2 billion, every one of them is small and they stopped growing. You look at the IDC charts. Many of them are shrinking. We are the fastest growing in the last two years, but I estimate there's about 20 exabytes of data that collectively among the legacy players, that's either gonna stay on prem or move to the cloud. Okay. So the opportunity as they replace one of those legacy tools with us is first off to manage that 20 X bike cheaper, faster with the Webscale, a glass or for the cloud guys, we could tip that into the cloud. Okay. >>But you can't stop there. >>Okay. No, we are not doing just back recovery. Right. We have a platform that can do files. We can do test dev analytics and now security. Okay. That data is potentially at a risk, not so much in the past, but for ransomware, right? How do we classify that? How do we govern that data? How do we run potential? You know, the same way you did antivirus some kind of XDR algorithms on the data to potentially not just catch the recovery process, which is after fact, but maybe the predictive act of before to know, Hey, there's somebody loitering around this data. So if I'm basically managing in the exabytes of data and I can proactively tell you what, this is, one CIO described this very simply to me a few weeks ago that I, and she said, I have 3000 applications, okay. I wanna be prepared for a black Swan event, except it's not a nine 11 planes hitting the, the buildings. >>It is an extortion event. And I want to know when that happens, which of my 3000 apps I recover within one hour within one day within one week, no lay than one month. Okay. And I don't wanna pay the bad guys of penny. That's what we do. So that's security discussions. We didn't have that discussion in 2004 when I was at another company, because we were talking about flood floods and earthquakes as a disaster recovery. Now you have a lot more security opportunity to be able to describe that. And that's a boardroom discussion. She needs to have that >>Digital risk. O O okay, go ahead please. I >>Was just gonna say, ransomware attack happens every what? One, every 11, 9, 11 seconds. >>And the dollar amount are going up, you know, dollar of what? >>Yep. And, and when you pay the ransom, you don't always get your data back. So you that's >>Not. And listen, there's always an ethical component. Should you do it or not do it? If you, if you don't do it and you're threatened, they may have left an Easter egg there. Listen, I, I feel very fortunate that I've been doing a lot in security, right? I mean, I built the business at, at, at VMware. We got it to over a billion I'm on the board of sneak. I've been doing security and then at SAP ran. So I know a lot about security. So what we do in security and the ecosystem that supports us in security, we will have a very carefully crafted stay tuned. Next three weeks months, you'll see us really rolling out a very kind of disciplined aspect, but we're not gonna pivot this company and become a cyber security company. Some others in our space have done that. I think that's not who we are. We are a data management and a data security company. We're not just a pure security company. We're doing both. And we do it well, intelligently, thoughtfully security is gonna be built into our platform, not bolted on, okay. And there'll be certain security things that we do organically. There's gonna be a lot that we do through partnerships, >>This security market that's coming to you. You don't have to go claim that you're now a security vendor, right? The market very naturally saying, wow, a comprehensive security strategy has to incorporate a data protection strategy and a recovery, you know, and the things we've talking about, Mount ransomware, I want to ask you, you know, I've been around a long time, longer than you actually Sanjay. So, but you you've, you've seen a lot. You look incredibly, >>Thank you. That's all good. Oh, >>Shocks. So the market, I've never seen a market like this, right? I okay. After the.com crash, we said, and I know you can't talk about IPO. That's not what I'm talking about, but everything was bad after that. Right. 2008, 2000, everything was bad. I've never seen a market. That's half full, half empty, you know, snowflake beats and raises the stock, goes through the roof. Dev if it, the area announced today, Mongo, DB, beat and Ray, that things getting crushed. And, and after market never seen anything like this. It's so fed, driven and, and hard to protect. And, and of course, I know it's a marathon, you know, it's not a sprint, but have you ever seen anything like this? >>Listen, I walk worked through 18 quarters as COO of VMware. You seen, I've seen public quarters there and you know, was very fortunate. Thanks to the team. I don't think I missed my numbers in 18 quarters except maybe once close. But we, it was, it's tough. Being a public company. Officer of the company is tough. I did that also at SAP. So the journey from 10 to 20 billion at SAP, the journey from six to 12 at VMware, that I was able to be fortunate. It's humbling because you, you really, you know, we used to have this, we do the earnings call and then we kind of ask ourselves, what, what do you think the stock price was gonna be a day and a half later? And we'd all take bets as to wear this. I think you just basically, as a, as a sea level executive, you try to build a culture of beaten, raise, beaten, raise, beaten, raise, and you wanna set expectations in a way that you're not setting them up for failure. >>And you know, it's you, there's, Dave's a wonderful CEO as is Frank movement. So it's hard for me to dissect. And sometimes the market are fickle on some small piece of it. But I think also the, when I, I encourage people say, take the long term view. When you take the long term view, you're not bothered about the ups and downs. If you're building a great company over the length of time, now it will be very clear over the arc of many, many quarters that you're business is trouble. If you're starting to see a decay in growth. And like, for example, when you start to see a growth, start to decay significantly by five, 10 percentage points, okay, there's something macro going on at this company. And that's what you won't avoid. But these, you know, ups and downs, my view is like, if you've got both Mongo, DIA and snowflake are fantastic companies, they're CEOs of people I respect. They've actually a kind of an, a, you know, advisor to us as a company, you knows mot very well. So we respect him, respect Frank, and you, there have been other quarters where Frank's, you know, the snowflakes had a down result after that. So you build a long term and they are on the right side of history, snowflake, and both of them in terms of being a modern cloud relevant in the case of MongoDB open source to data technology, that's, you know, winning, I, we would like to be like them one day >>As, as the new CEO of cohesive, what are you most, what are you most anxious about? And what are you most excited about? >>I think, listen, you know, you know, everything starts with the employee. You, I always believe I wrote my first memo to all employees. There was an article in Harvard business review called service profit chains that had a seminal impact on my leadership, which is when they studied companies who had been consistently profitable over a long period of time. They found that not just did those companies serve their customers well, but behind happy engaged customers were happy, engaged employees. So I always believe you start with the employee and you ensure that they're engaged, not just recruiting new employees. You know, I put on a tweet today, we're hiring reps and engineers. That's okay. But retaining. So I wanna start with ensuring that everybody, sometimes we have to make some unfortunate decisions with employees. We've, we've got a part company with, but if we can keep the best and brightest retained first, then of course, you know, recruiting machine, I'm trying to recruit the best and brightest to this company, people all over the place. >>I want to get them here. It's been, so I mean, heartwarming to come to world and just see people from all walks, kind of giving me hugs. I feel incredibly blessed. And then, you know, after employees, it's customers and partners, I feel like the tech is in really good hands. I don't have to worry about that. Cuz Mo it's in charge. He's got this thing. I can go to bed knowing that he's gonna keep innovating the future. Maybe in some of the companies, I would worried about the tech innovation piece, but most doing a great job there. I can kind of leave that in his cap of hands, but employees, customers, partners, that's kind of what I'm focused on. None of them are for me, like a keep up at night, but they're are opportunities, right? And sometimes there's somebody you're trying to salvage to make sure or somebody you're trying to convince to join. >>But you know, customers, I love pursuing customers. I love the win. I hate to lose. So fortune 1000 global, 2000 companies, small companies, big companies, I wanna win every one of 'em and it's not, it's not like, I mean, I know all these CEOs in my competitors. I texted him the day I joined and said, listen, I'll compete, honorably, whatever have you, but it's like Kobe and LeBron Kobe's passed away now. So maybe it's step Curry. LeBron, whoever your favorite athlete is you put your best on the court and you win. And that's how I am. That's nothing I've known no other gear than to put my best on the court and win, but do it honorably. It should not be the one that you're doing it. Unethically. You're doing it personally. You're not calling people's names. You're competing honorably. And when you win the team celebrates, it's not a victory for me, it's a victory for the team. >>I always think I'm glad that you brought out the employee experience and we're almost out of time, but I always think the employee experience and the customer experience are inextricably linked. This employees have to be empowered. They have to have the data that they need to do their job so that they can deliver to the customer. You can't do one without the other. >>That's so true. I mean, I, it's my belief. And I've talked also on this show and others about servant leadership. You know, one of my favorite poems is Brenda NA Tago. I went to bed in life. I dreamt that life was joy. I woke up and realized life was service. I acted in service was joy. So when you have a leadership model, which is it's about, I mean, there's lots of layers between me and the individual contributor, but I really care about that sales rep and the engineer. That's the leaf level of the organization. What can I get obstacle outta their way? I love skipping levels and going write that sales rep let's go and crack this deal. You know? So you have that mindset. Yeah. I mean, you, you empower, you invert the pyramid and you realize the power is at the leaf level of an organization. >>So that's what I'm trying to do. It's a little easier to do it with 2000 people than I dunno, either 20, 20, 2000 people or 35,000 reported me at VMware. And I mean a similar number at SAP, which was even bigger, but you can shape this. Now we are, we're not a startup anymore. We're a mid-size company. We'll see. Maybe along the way, there's an IP on the path. We'll wait for that. When it comes, it's a milestone. It's not the destination. So we do that and we are, we, I told people we are gonna build this green company. Cohesive is gonna be a great company like VMware one day, like Amazon. And there's always a day of early beginnings, but we have to work harder. This is kind of like the, you know, eight year old version of your kid, as opposed to the 18 year old version of the kid. And you gotta work a little harder. So I love it. Yeah. >>Good luck. Awesome. Thank you too. Best of luck. Congratulations on the role, it sounds like there's a tremendous amount of adrenaline, a momentum carrying you forward Sanja. We always appreciate having thank >>You for having in your show. >>Thank you. Our pleasure, Lisa. Thank you for Sanjay poin and Dave ante. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cube live from VMware Explorer, 2022, stick around our next guest. Join us momentarily.

>>From around the globe, it's the Cube with digital coverage of IBM, think 2021 brought to you by IBM. >>Welcome to the cubes, digital coverage of IBM Think 2021 fine lisa martin. Next joining me is Leo Lebron's director of global strategic initiatives at Aws. Leo, Welcome to the cube. >>Thank you. >>So, talk to me about AWS and IBM. What's going on there with the relationship? What are some of the things that are significant for both partners? >>Yeah, absolutely. You know, IBM relationship really started with us around 2016, I would say it was a little bit more opportunistic at the time, we knew there was an opportunity to go to market together. We knew there were some great things we could do for our customers, but we haven't quite cracked, cracked the code, so to speak, on, on when and where and why we're going to partner at that point. Um you fast forward into the sort of 2017 to 2019 timeframe, um and we became a lot more intentional about how we're going to go to market where we were going to invest. Areas such as S. A. P, et cetera, were early, want to be identified. Um and I'd say the ball really started rolling sort of in the 2018 time Frank, a combination of a number of different things occurred. Uh You know, the the acquisition of Red Hat obviously, you know, Red Hat is a very significant, was a very significant partner with a W. S prior to the acquisition. Um And so post acquisition, you combine that with ramping up a workforce focused on AWS, combined with a number of different competencies at A W or IBM really invested in around migration as an example or S. A. P. Um and you know, the ball really started to roll quickly. Um after that, you know, I'd say in the last 18 months or so, we've both invested, significant in the relationship expansion around the world really, and in joint resources and capability to make sure that we're going to mark, it's sort of a partnered intentional way rather than sort of opportunistic. Uh >>Oh God, >>yeah, I'd say so far that's that's absolutely been paying off. Um and that we are seeing a number of winds all around the world across a broad set of industries as well as a broad set of technologies. Um so, you know, the strength of IBM consulting services in particular, but also their software, combined with the strength of our platform, is really proven to be successful for our customers. >>So you said started in 2016, really started taking shape in the last couple of years. That redhead acquisition talk to me about what's in this for customers. I imagine customers that are, that are expanding or needing to move workloads into the cloud or maybe more of a hybrid cloud approach. What are some of the big benefits that customers are going to gain from this partnership? >>Yeah, absolutely. Uh, reality is um, IBM has a long and storied history and relationship with their customers, right? Um, They run and manage many of the workloads. Um, they really know the customer's business incredibly well. Um They have domain expertise and industry, um, and then the technology expertise from a professional services perspective to really help navigate the waters and and determine what the right strategy is around moving to the cloud, right? You combine that with the depth and breadth of the skills and capabilities and services the WS provides. Um and the fact that IBM has invested significantly in making sure their professional services are deeply steeped in our technology and capabilities. Um, it's a great combination of really understanding the customer's needs plus the art of the possible honestly, when it comes to technology that we provide, really can accelerate both and mitigate risk when it comes to move into the club, >>that risk mitigation is key. So you guys, recently a W has recently launched, I'm gonna get this right red hat, open shift service on AWS or Rosa. Can you talk to me a little bit about rosa? >>Yeah, so um Red Hat obviously very well known and ultimately adopted within the enterprise. Um, we have built a fully managed service around red hat on AWS. Um, what that means is um, you'll have access to essentially the capabilities that that red hat would normally provide, but all containerized within a solution that allows you to have access to AWS services, right. Um, the other benefit here is normally you would get sort of a multi vendors with invoicing and cost model right? Where you get built from red hat get built from amazon, you get built from IBM um, in this case it's it's essentially a holistic service in which there is a single sort of invoicing and vendor relationship. Right? Um, so it's a combination of capabilities that normally would be provided the red hat combined with access to cloud and all the interfaces and capabilities around um, open shift etcetera that you could do their um, plus a more interesting and beneficial commercial model. >>So streamlined pricing model, streamlined operating model for customers. Talk to me about some of the customers that have adopted it. Give me a look into some of the industry's where you've seen good adoption and some of the results that they're gaining so far. >>Yeah, one second. Sorry. It's like insanely love uh worries. >>Let's just take it, let's just take a >>pause. Like we can >>just we can just so yeah, we'll go right as if lisa lisa just finish the question. Um so just take a breather. Yeah, as long as it as it needs. Um and then whenever you're ready, whenever that's that's died down, just just give it a beat, give it like a second and then just write as if she >>just yeah. >>Oh cut it out as if nothing happened. >>Give me >>two minutes. Mhm. >>So actually on your question, I know the answer from things that I've done recently, but was there an official answer Teresa, I'm supposed to give them the >>No, not >>really. I mean, I think what you're talking about on Red Hat specifically >>right earlier. >>No, I mean there's a product page and stuff, it's really about just the >>the >>ability of customers to be able to run those solutions on the AWS console is really the gist of it and then it's fully integrated. >>Not sure advantage of the examples I know of are publicly referenced. >>That's okay. You could just say customer in X y z industry. That's totally fair. Not to worry about that. Yeah, >>I don't know if uh, so rosa, lisa rosa was just launched in March and so it's brand new. So I don't know, I'm the customer stories yet, >>so >>that's why I don't have them listed for leo >>that's fine. That's totally fine. Maybe we can talk about, you know, since the launch was just around the corner, some of the things that have been going on the momentum interest from customers questions conversations, you mean more like that as you're launching the GTM >>Yeah, and there's certainly a couple of industries that they have targeted. So as well as a couple of customers. >>Yeah, thank you >>lisa. Of course. I think they went around the corner. >>All right, let me know and I'll re ask the question. I'll tweak it a little >>bit. Alright, >>so talk to me about Rosa just launched very recently. Talked to me about customer interest adoption. Maybe some of the industry's in particular if you're seeing any industry that's kind of really leading edge here and taking advantage of this new manage service. >>Yeah. So no big surprise, right. The existing customer base that currently uses red at Lenox and some of the options and open shift etcetera that are out today are then the right customers to potentially look at this when it comes to moving forward. Um, you know, industry wise, certainly there are areas in financial services, banking, insurance, um, et cetera. We're also seeing some around manufacturing a little a little less so, but some in media and telco as well. Um, So it's, it's a broad swath of the applicability of red hat and open shift is somewhat universal, but the early customer base is larger than sort of in those three areas. >>What I'm curious what the key target audiences are these Red Hat customers are these AWS customers? IBM all three. >>Yeah. I mean there isn't necessarily the perfect customer that we're not necessarily looking for as much as um if there are existing customers that are currently using Lennox for using Red Hat. Um, if there are someone who, a customer who currently has a relationship with either a W. S. Or IBM, um, there's an opportunity to essentially look at it from any of the angles if you're already on cloud or you've already experienced AWS in some shape or form, there's an opportunity to potentially to leverage rosa to further expand that capability and also have some more flexibility, so to speak. Um if you're already using IBM as a professional services provider and advisory firm, then they absolutely have the expertise and understanding of this product set to help you understand how it could be best leverage. Right? So you can kind of look at it from either the dimensions. Um if it's a customer that's completely new to all of us, then we're happy to talk to you. But um, it's uh, it's something that we'll definitely take a little bit more explanation to understand or why why you should or shouldn't consider this multi cloud open shift. Absolution >>got it. Let's shift gears a bit and talk about ASAP when we think about customers looking to migrate ASAP workloads to the cloud, looking at the right cloud provider providers and those are really big challenging strategic decisions for leadership to make. Talk to me about why when you're in those conversations, AWS is the best choice. >>Absolutely. I mean, really AWS and say with S A P N with many of our services is really looking to give all the options that you could conceivably need or want in order to engage in cloud migration and transformation. Um, press safety specifically right, There are a number of different options, right? You could go for a lift and shift or upgrade from many database. Too sweet on safety hana. Um, could potentially look to modernize and leverage cloud services, post post migration as well as the sort of final Pinnacle of that is a complete transformation to S four, S 4 Hana as far as why AWS specifically beyond just choice. Um, You know, from a from a cost perspective, uh it's a pretty, pretty compelling and we have some pretty compelling business and use cases around ultimately the cost savings that come when, when you move from an on premise S A. P implementation to cloud. Beyond that, usually the cloud migration itself as an opportunity to uh condense or reduce the number of instances you're paying for from an S A S a P perspective, which then further reduces cost um from a reliability perspective, you know, AWS is is the world's most secure, extensive, reliable part infrastructure, right? Um, any of the instances that you put on AWS are uh, instantly and say fairly instantly provision in such a way that they're they are provided across multiple what we call availability zones, um, which is giving you for the resiliency and the stability that really no other cloud broke Right. Um On the security front, I mean, this is really a unique position in that AWS plus IBM and the security, the depth and security services, you know, numerous years of professional services work um that IBM has done the security space um you know, they have roughly 8000 or so cybersecurity experts with an IBM so the combination of their expertise and security plus the security of our platform um is a great combination. Um I'd say the final one is around performance. Right. AWS offers many more cloud native options around certified ASAP instances specifically all the way from 256 gigabyte option all the way up to 24 terabytes, which is the largest of its kind. Um and as as those who have implemented ASAP No, it's a very resource intensive so having the ability to do that from a performance perspective is is a key differentiator for sure. >>Talk to me from your opinion about why IBM for S. A. P on AWS, why should customers go that direction for their projects? >>Yeah. You know, ASAP has, sorry, safety, IBM has over 40 years of experience in implementing ASAP for their customers. Right. They've done I think it's over 6000 S. A. P migrations, uh 40,000 global S A. P consultants around the world. Right. So from a capability and depth of experience, uh yeah, there's a lot of nuance to doing a safety implantation, particularly one that's been moving from on prem to the cloud. Um you know, they've got they've got the experience right beyond that, they have industry specific solutions that are pre configured. So I think that is 12 industry specific industry solutions we configured for S. A. P. It allows, you know, roughly 20-30 acceleration when it comes to implementation of platform. So um combination of just depth of experience, death of capability combined with these solutions to accelerate are all key key reasons for sure. >>The acceleration yet you bring up, sorry, is interesting because we saw in the last year the acceleration of digital transformation projects and businesses needing to pivot again and again and again to figure out how to survive and be successful in this very dynamic market in which we're still living anything industry. Why is it specific that you saw that was really driving the acceleration and the use cases for Rosa in the last year? Yeah, >>yeah. So you ASAP we saw an interesting trend as a result of what everyone's been experiencing in the last year with Covid etcetera. Um you know, many organizations postponed large european implementations and large as a few migrations because of what you just said, right, they weren't entirely sure um what would need to be done in order to survive either competitive threats or more? Just the global threats that are occurring. Um so what we saw was really none of, none of the transformations went away. They were put on hold for a period of time, let's say 6-9 months ago, maybe even a year ago almost um in lieu of I would say more um top line revenue generating or innovative type solutions that maybe we're focused specifically at, you know, the changing dynamic with with Covid. Um Since then we've seen a combination of those new ideas, right? Combination of the new innovation around health care of course, but also public sector and um you know, a lower unemployment and you know, the engagement there, we sent a combination of those new ideas and new innovations with the original goal of optimizing transforming ASAP, europe et cetera, And then combining the two to allow access to the data right that sits inside the S. A. P. Implementation ASAP, Combined the data asap with all these new innovations and then ultimately use that to sort of capitalize on what the future business is going to be. Um that's been huge. It's been very interesting to see some organizations completely changed their business model over the course of the last 12 months um in ways they probably had never intended you before. Right? But it's it's absolutely become an opportunity, you know, time with a lot of challenges. >>I agree there are silver linings and we've seen a lot of those interesting opportunities to your point and businesses probably would never have come up with had there not been a forcing function like we've been living with Julio. Thank you for joining me today. Talking to me about what's going on with I. B. M. And A W. S will be excited to follow. What happens with Rosa as a, uh, continues to roll out and we appreciate you joining us on the program. >>Absolutely. Thank you for time. >>Pearly Lebron chime lisa martin. You're watching the cubes digital coverage of IBM think 2021. Mhm.

>>From around the globe. It's the view with digital coverage of Docker con live 2020 brought to you by Docker and its ecosystem partners. >>LeBron. Welcome back to DockerCon 2020 hashtag Docker 20 this is the cube and Dockers coverage of Docker con 20 I'm Sean for you and the Palo Alto studios with our quarantine crew. We've got a great interview segment here in big news around developer workflow code to cloud. We've got Amanda silver corporate vice president, product for developer tools at Microsoft and Scott Johnson, the CEO of Docker. Scott had a great keynote talking about this relationship news has hit about the extension of the Microsoft partnership. So congratulations Amanda. Welcome to the cube. >>Thanks for having me. >>Amanda, tell us a bit about what your role is at Microsoft. You guys are well known in the developer community to develop an ecosystem when even when I was in college going way back, very modern. Now cloud is, is the key code to cloud. That's the theme. Tell us about your role at Microsoft. >>Yeah. So I basically run the product, uh, product design and user research team that works on our developer tools that Microsoft and so that includes the visual studio product as well as visual studio code. Um, that's become pretty popular in the last few years, but it also includes things like the.net runtime and the TypeScript programming language as well as all of our Azure tooling. >>What's your thoughts on the relationship with Docker? I'll show you the news extension of an existing relationship. Microsoft's got a lot of tools. You've got a lot of things you guys are doing, bringing the cloud to every business. Tell us about your thoughts on this relationship with Donker. >>Yeah, well we're very excited about the partnership for sure. Um, you know, our goal is really to make sure that Azure is a fantastic place where all developers can kind of bring their code and they feel welcome. They feel natural. Uh, we really see a unique opportunity to make the experience really great for Docker, for the Docker community by creating more integrated and seamless experience across Docker, desktop windows and visual studio. And we really appreciate how, how Docker is kind of, you know, supported our windows ecosystem to run in Docker as well. >>Scott, this relationship and an extension with Microsoft is really, uh, I think impressive and also notable because Microsoft's got so many, so many tools out there and they have so successful with Azure. You guys have been so successful with your developer community, but this also is reflective of the new Docker. Uh, could you share your thoughts on how this partnership with Microsoft extending the way it is with the growth of the cloud is a reflection of the new Docker? >>Yeah, absolutely. John's great question. One of the things that we've really been focused on since November is fully embracing the ecosystem and all the partnerships and all the possibilities of that ecosystem. And part of that is just reality. That we're a smaller company now and we can't do it all, nor should we do it all. Part of us. The reality that developers love voice and no one's gonna change their minds on choice. And third is just acknowledging that there's so much creativity and so much energy. The four walls of Docker that we'd be building, not the big advantage of that and welcome it and embrace it and provide that as a phenomenal experience part of Alfred's. So this is a great example of that. The sneak partnership we announced last week is a grant to have that and you're going to see many more of uh, partnerships like this going forward that are reflective of exactly this point. >>You've been a visionary on the product side of the interviewed before. Also deploying is more important than ever. That whole workflow, simplifying, it's not getting complex. People want choice, building code, managing code, deploying code. This has been a big focus of yours. Can you just share your thoughts on where Microsoft comes in because they got stuff too. You've got stuff, it all works together. What's your thoughts? >>Right? So it needs to work together, right? Because developers want to focus on their app. They don't want to focus on duct taping and springing together different siloed pools, right? So you can see in the demo and you'll see in, uh, demonstrations later throughout the conference. Just the seamless experience that a developer gets in the document man line inter-operating with visual studio code with the Docker command line and then deploying to Azure and what's what's wonderful about the partnership is that both parties put real engineering effort and design effort into making it a great experience. So a lot of the complexities around the figuration around default settings around uh, security, user management, all of that is abstracted out and taken away from the developer so they can focus on applications and getting those applications deployed to the proudest quickly as possible. Getting their app from code to cloud is the wok word or the or the call to action for this partnership. And we think we really hit it out of the park with the integration that you saw, >>Great validation and a critical part of the workflow. You guys have been part of Amanda, we're living in a time we're doing these remote interviews. The coven crisis has shown the productivity gains of working at home and working in sheltering in place, but also as highlighted, the focus of developers mainly who have also worked at home. They've kind of used to this. Do you see the rigs? I saw her at Microsoft build some amazing rigs from the studio. So these guys streaming their code demos. This is, um, a Cambrin explosion of new kinds of productivity. And yet the world's getting more complex at scale. This is what cloud does. What's your thoughts on this? Cause the tooling is more tools than ever, right? So I still gotta deploy code. It's gotta be more agile. It's gotta be faster. It's gotta be at scale. This is what you guys believe in. What's your thinking on all these tooling and abstraction layers and the end of the day, don't you still got to do their job? >>Yeah, well, absolutely. And now, even more than ever. I mean, I think we've, we've certainly seen over the past few months, uh, uh, a more rapid acceleration of digital transformation. And it's really happened in the past few years. Uh, you know, paper processes are now becoming digit digital processes. All of a sudden, you know, everybody needs to work and learn from home. And so there's just this rapid acceleration to kind of move everything to support our new remote lifestyle. Um, but even more so, you know, we now have remote development teams actually working from home as well in a variety of different kinds of, uh, environments. Whether they're using their own personal machine to connect to their infrastructure or they're using a work issued machine. You know, it's more important than ever that developers are productive, but they are productive as a team. Right? Software is a team sport. >>We all need to be able to work together and to be able to collaborate. And one of the most important aspects of agility for developers is consistency. And, uh, what Docker really enables is, uh, with, with containerization is to make the infrastructure consistent and repeatable so that as developers are moving through the life cycle from their local, local dev desktop and developing on their local desktop to a test environment and to staging and to production, it's really, it's infrastructure of or, or developers as well as operations. And so it's that, that infrastructure that's completely customizable for what the developer's operating system of choices, what their app stack is, all of those dependencies kind of running together. And so that's what really enables developers to be really agile and have a really, really fast iteration cycle but also to have that consistency across all of their development team. And you know, we, we now need to think about things like how are we actually going to bring on interns for the summer, uh, and make sure that they can actually set up their developer boxes in a consistent way that we can actually support them. And things like Docker really helped with that >>As your container instances and a visual studio cloud that you guys have has had great success. Um, there's a mix and match formula here. At the end of the day, developers want to ship the code. What's the message that you guys are sending here with this? Because I think productivity is one, simplification is the other, but as developers on the front lines and they're shipping in real time, this is a big part of the value proposition that you guys are bringing to the table. >>Yeah, I mean the, the core message is that any developer and their code is welcome, uh, and that we really want to support them and power them and increase their velocity and the impact that they can have. Um, and so, you know, having things like the fact that the Docker CLI is natively integrated into the Azure experience, uh, is a really important aspect of making sure that developers are feeling welcome and feeling comfortable. Um, and now that the Docker CLI tools are, that are part of Docker desktop, have access to native commands that work well with Azure container instances. Uh, Azure container instances, if anybody's on familiar with that, uh, is the simplest and fastest way to kind of set up containers and Azure. And, and so we believe that developers have really been looking for a really simple way to kind of get containers on Azure. And now we that really consistent experience across our service services and our tools and visual studio code and visual studio extensions make full use of Docker desktop and the Docker CLI so that they can get that combination of the productivity and the power that they're looking for. And in fact, we've, we've integrated these as a design point since very early on in our partnership when we've been partnering with, with Docker for quite a while. >>Amanda, I want to ask you about the, the, the, the tool chain. We've heard about workflows, making it simpler, bottom line, from a developer standpoint, what's the bottom line for me? What does this mean to me? Uh, every day developer out there? >>Um, I, I mean, I really think it means you know, your productivity on your terms. Um, and so, you know, Microsoft has been a developer company since the very, very beginning with, you know, bill Gates and, and, uh, GW basic. Um, and it's actually similar for Docker, right? They really have a developer first point of view, uh, which certainly speaks to my heart. And so one of the things that we're really trying to do with, with Docker is to make sure that we can create a workflow that's super productive at every stage of the developer experience, no matter which stack they're actually targeting, whether there's targeting node or Python or.net and C-sharp or Java. Uh, we really want to make sure that we have a super simple experience that you can actually initiate all of these commands, create, you know, Docker container images and use the compose Docker compose files. >>Um, and then, you know, just kind of do that consistently as you're deploying it all the way up into your infrastructure in Azure. And the other thing that we really want to make sure is that that even post deployment, you can actually inspect and diagnose these containers and images without having to leave the tool. Um, so we, we also think about the process of writing the code, but also the process of kind of managing the code and remediating issues that might come up in production. And so, you know, we really want you to be able to look at containers up in the Azure. Uh, up that are deployed into Azure and make sure that they're running and healthy and that if there, if something's wrong, that you can actually open up a shell and be in an interactive mode and be able to look at the logs from those containers and even inspect when to see environment variables or other details. >>Yeah, that's awesome. You know, writing code, managing code, and then you've got to deploy, right? So what I've been loving about the, the past generation of agile is deployment's been fast to deploy all the time. Scott, this brings up that the ease of use, but you want to actually leverage automation. This is the trend that you want to get in. You want, you don't want, you want to make it easy to write code, manage code. But during the deployment phase, that's a big innovation. That's the last point. Making that better and stronger. What's your thoughts on simplifying that? >>So that was a big part of this partnership, John, that the Docker in Microsoft embarked on and as you saw from the demo and the keynote, um, all within the man line, the developers able to do in two simple commands, deploy an app, uh, defining compose from the desktop to Azure and there's a whole slew of automation and pre-configured smart defaults or sane defaults that have gone on behind the scenes and that took a lot of hardcore engineering work on part of Docker and Microsoft together to simplify that and make that easy and that, that goes exactly to your point. We just like the simpler you can make it more, you can abstract a way to kind of underlying plumbing and infrastructure. The faster devs can get there. Their application from code to cloud. >>Scott, you've been a product CEO, you've been a product person, a CEO, but you have a product background. You've been involved with the relationship with Microsoft for a long time. What's the state of the market right now? I mean, obviously Microsoft has evolved. Look at just the performance corporate performance. The shift to the cloud has been phenomenal. Now developers getting more empowered, there's more demand for the pressure to put on developers to do more and more, more creativity. So you've seen this evolve, this relationship, what does it mean? >>Yeah, it's honestly a wonderful question, John. And I want to thank Amanda and the entire Microsoft team for being long standing partners with us on this journey. So it's might not be known to everyone on today's, uh, day's event. But Microsoft came to the very first Docker con event, uh, way back in June, 2014 and I had the privilege of, of reading them and welcoming them and they're, they were full on ready to see what all the excitement about Docker was about and really embrace it. And you mentioned kind of openness and Microsoft's growth over that, uh, over time in that dimension. And we think kind of Docker together with Microsoft have really shown what an open developer community can do. And that started back in 2014 and then we embarked on an open source collaboration around the Docker command line of the Docker engine, bringing that Docker engine from Linux and now moving it to windows applications. And so all of a sudden the promise of right ones and use the same primitives, the same formats, the same fan lines, uh, as you can with Linux onto windows applications. We brought that promise to the market and it's been an ongoing journey together with Microsoft of open standards based, developer facing friendliness, ease of use, fast time to deploy. And this, this partnership that we announced yesterday and we highlighted at the keynote is just another example of that ongoing relationship laser like focused on developer productivity and helping teams build great apps. >>Why do you like Azure in the cloud for Docker? Can you share why? >>Well, it's as Amanda has been sharing, it's super focused on what are the needs of developers to help them continue to stay focused on their apps and not have their cognitive load burdened by other aspects of getting their apps to the cloud. And Azure, phenomenal job of simplifying and providing sane defaults out of the box. And as we've been talking about, it's also very open to partner like the one we've announced >>Yesterday and highlighted, you know, but >>Uh, make it just easy for development teams to choose their tools and build their apps and deploy them onto Azure. It's possible. So, uh, it's, it's a phenomenal plan, one for developers and we're very excited and proud of partner with Microsoft on it. >>Amanda, on your side, I see DACA has got millions of developers. You guys got millions of developers even more. How do you see the developers in Microsoft side engaging with Docker desktop and Docker hub? Where does it all fit? >>I think it's a great question. I mean, I mentioned earlier how the Docker context can help individuals and teams kind of work in their environments work. Let me try that over. I mentioned earlier how I, how I see Docker context really improving the way that individuals and teams work with their environments and making sure that they're consistent. But I think this really comes together as we work with Docker desktop and Docker hub. Uh, when developers sign into Docker hub from Docker desktop, everything kind of lights up. And so they can see all of the images in their repositories and they can also see the cloud environments they're running them in. And so, you know, once you sign into the hub, you can see all the contexts that map to the logical environments that they have access to like dev and QA and maybe staging. And another use case that's really important is that, you know, we can access the same integration environment. >>So, so I could have, you know, microservices that I've been working on, but I can also see microservices that my, my teammates and their logs, uh, from the services that they've been working on, which I think is really, really great and certainly helps with, with team productivity. The other thing too is that this also really helps with hybrid cloud deployments, right? Where, you know, you might have some on premises, uh, hosted containers and you might have some that's hosted in a public cloud. And so you can see all of those things, uh, through your Docker hub. >>Well, I got to say I love the code to cloud tagline. I think that's very relevant and, and catchy. Um, and I think, I guess to me what I'm seeing, and I'd love to get your thoughts, Amanda, on this, as you oversee a key part of Microsoft's business that's important for developers, just the vibe and people are amped up right now. I know people are tense and anxiety with the covert 19 crisis, but I think people are generally agreeing that this is going to be a massive inflection point for just more headroom needed for developers to accelerate their value on the front lines. What's your personal take on this and you've seen these ways before, but now in this time, what are you most excited about? What are you optimist about? What's your view on the opportunities? Can you share your thoughts? Because people are going to get back to work or they're working now remotely, but when we go back to hybrid world, they're going to be jamming on projects. >>Yeah, for sure. But I mean, people are jamming on projects right now. And I think that, you know, in a lot of ways, uh, developers are our first responders in, you know, in that they are, developers are always trying to support somebody else, right? We're trying to somebody else's workflow and you know, so we have examples of people who are, uh, creating new remote systems to be able to, uh, schedule meetings in hospitals or the doctors who are actually the first, first responders taking care of patients. But at the end of the day, it's the developer who's actually creating that solution, right? And so we're being called the duty right now. Um, and so we need to make sure that we're actually there to support the needs of our users and that we're, we're basically cranking on code as fast as we can. Uh, and to be able to do that, we have to make sure that every developer is empowered and they can move quickly, but also that they can collaborate freely. And so, uh, I think that, you know, Docker hub Docker kind of helps you ensure that you have that consistency, but you also have that connection to the infrastructure that's hosted by your, your organization. >>I think you nailed that amazing insight. And I think that's, you know, the current situation in the community matters because there's a lot of um, frontline work being done to your point. But then we've got to rebuild. The modernization is happening as well coming out of this. So there's going to be that and there's a lot of comradery going on and massive community involvement. I'm seeing more of, you know, the empathy, but also now there's going to be the building, the creation, the new creation. So Scott, this is going to call for more simplicity and to abstract away the complexities. This is the core issue. >>Well that's exactly right and it is time to build, right? Um, and we're going to build our way out of this. Um, and it is the community that's responding. And so in some sense, Microsoft and Docker are there to support that, that community energy and give them the tools to go. And identify and have an impact as quickly as possible. We have referenced in the keynote, um, completely bottoms up organic adoption of Docker desktop and Docker hub in racing to provide solutions against the COBIT 19 virus. Right? It's a, it's a war against this pandemic that is heavily dependent on applications and data and there's over 200 projects, community projects on Docker hub today where you've got uh, cools and containers and data analysis all in service to the photo at 19 battle that's being fought. And then as you said, John, as we, as we get through this, the other side, there's entire industries that are completely rethinking their approach that were largely offline before that. Now see the imperative and the importance of going online and that tectonic shift nearly overnight of offline to online behavior and commerce and social and go on down the list that requires new application development. And I'm very pleased about this partnership is that together we're giving developers the tools to really take advantage of that opportunity and go and build our way out of it. >>Well, Scott, congratulations on a great extended partnership with Microsoft and the Docker brand. You know, I'm a big fan of from day one. I know you guys have pivoted on a new trajectory which is very community oriented, very open source, very open. So congratulations on that Amanda. Thanks for spending the time to come on. I'll give you the final word. Take a minute to talk about what's new at Microsoft. For the folks that know Microsoft, know they have a developer mindset from day one cloud is exploding code to cloud. What's the update? What's the new narrative? What should people know about Microsoft with developer community? Can you share from some, some, some uh, data for the folks that aren't in the community or might want to join with folks in the community who want to get an update? >>Yeah, it's a, it's a great, great kind of question. I mean, you know, right now I think we are all really focused on making sure that we can empower developers throughout the world and that includes both those who are building solutions for their organizations today. But also I think we're going to end up with a ton of new developers over this next period who are really entering the workforce and uh, and learning to create, you know, digital solutions overall. There's a massive developer shortage across the world. Um, there's so much opportunity for developers to kind of, you know, address a lot of the needs that we're seeing out of organizations again across the world. Um, and so I think it's just a really exciting time to be a developer. Uh, and you know, my, my uh, my only hope is that basically we're, we're building tools that actually enable them to solve problems. >>Awesome insight and thank you so much for your time code to cloud developers are cranking away that the first responders are going to take care of business and then continue to build out the modern applications. And when you have a crisis like this, people cut right through the noise and get right to the tools that matter. So thanks for sharing the Microsoft Docker partnership and the things that you guys are working on together. Thanks for your time. Okay. This is the cubes coverage. We are Docker con 2020 digital is the cube virtual. I'm Sean for bringing all the action. More coverage. Stay with us for more Docker con virtual. After this short break.

from the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world this is a cube conversation LeBron's special conversation I'm John Tory here in the cube I'm not in the studio I'm at home we're sheltering in place the studio quarantine crew is there we've got a great guest here to break down and Alice in the tech industries for vallah who's this principle of zk research Aziz great to check in with you for our check-in last time we chatted you broke down entire industry a lot to talk about now we have the Cisco earnings just came out and a lot of other great things are happening thanks for joining me well what's your take on what's going on yeah I think so thanks John it's uh it's been heard about tumultuous last few months I think one of the takeaways I had from Cisco's earnings actually was that it's not as bad as you think I know if you read a lot of what's going on the media we get everything from doomsday and the world's ending or whatever but I think what Cisco's earnings showed and in Cisco I know they have a lot of enemies and a lot of competitors out there but they're really still a bellwether for the industry and so everyone should rejoice in the fact that they actually had a pretty good quarter I think what was was telling about that was security was up the services business was up the margins were good and what that shows me is that there's still room for innovation customers relax are still buying things and they're willing to pay for things that actually help drive their business forward and so Cisco's put a lot of energy into their services group to make sure that customers are able to adapt their technology and change their business right and so from an overall market perspective Cisco is you know they're the quarters are the court has shifted from almost everybody else's and so they're generally a leading indicator of where things are going so I think the fact that they showed some strength they guided up from where the street thought I think that's a good thing for the entire industry and I think I'm not saying we're out of this yet but I think businesses are starting to spend money where they need to in order to put themselves in a position to come on strong after well once we start going back to work whoever knows what that'll be I think the other sort of interesting pivot here is that I think the overall role the network has changed with income right we've covered networking technologies a long time it gets a little bit of interest sometimes from sea level certainly not as much as it should from CEOs and CIOs a lot of people think of it as the plumbing and the pipes it's hard to understand it's a very complicated technology sometimes but when you look at what's happened with digital transformation initiatives and now covent we've got more people at home or adopting cloud services we use video for connecting more things with IOT initiatives so the overall value of the network is increased that I think that was also reflected in Cisco's numbers I think this transition had started when you look at a lot of the building blocks and digital transformation IOT cloud mobility things like that they're all Network centric in nature and so for the first time in history I think business leaders actually need to look at their network strategies because if that's without a sound network strategy as we sort of come out of this and the companies that have a good one will be able to really step on the gas and do what they want with their business the ones that don't I think I'd a really struggle to survive because I'm not gonna be able to do a lot of these advanced things yeah great point one of the things Brazil the new cisco has a new leadership new c has been in place for a while positioning they're going after and you know with the cloven crisis it really puts more pressure knock the move of the network because it's a core staple of an organization yet the transformation journey is going to be accelerated this gives Cisco it's a lucky strike for Cisco because it'll move packets around and the multi cloud conversation comes in and the enablement of application development all being five to the network is what cisco has been preparing on and this has kind of been a nuance point then that everyone understands but coming out of Cova to have a growth strategy if you're not programming up and down the stack with DevOps and Nets a cops or whatever you want to call it people working at home a new perimeter is now emerged that's everything everything is the premise is this a tailwind for Cisco your thoughts on that your face oh yeah the big time tailwind francisco i think what's happened gentlemen you look at network evolution over the last five years we can do much more with our network that's coming to cost and that cost us complexity so trying to tie all these things together SP Winn Sassie datacenter Sdn right we've got Wi-Fi six coming we've got 5g coming so we've got all these great things that we're gonna let our networks be faster than ever before and run applications we can never run before right you look at some of the demos on 5g we're able to wear untethered Wi-Fi our virtual reality headsets complete creating completely new shopping experiences educational experiences but you need a lot of bandwidth that but not only you need bandwidth I think the one thing that Kovac has taught us is do you have any weakness in the network anywhere right from the user's hand all the way to the cloud that weak point at the time and so now you have to start thinking of your network not in pieces of having a campus network Wi-Fi network data center network and that a single network right and so cisco is really one of the few companies maybe the only company that can actually deliver that end and network that starts in the company extends to people's homes goes out to the cloud and with what they've done masterfully under Chuck Robbins is they've been able to pile those things together to create a much simpler way of operating this complicated network so you look at what they're doing you know with a CI and intent based networking what that is is you can think of it almost as a software overlay that masks the complexity of the network that's underneath it yeah talking about cisco over the past decade and a half and i'm with the stack guys you gotta move up the stack this has been this is now their opportunity and with multi cloud on the horizon or here this is going to give cisco a path but I got to ask you what is your take and advice to Cisco when you're out there talking to them you're talking to of the customers all the time and practitioners you're the analyst what do they need to do better because you can't just wish a multi cloud upon the marketplace it's coming but it's not clearly not the use case yet so that's a time lag between a CI intent based networking to true multi-cloud what if Cisco do in the meantime yeah well I think what's this go has to do is is think about what they're doing with a CI and multi cloud and actually help their customers implement it in in pieces and what the description I'd use is is the paths this goes on and the path customers are on actually in this world of you think if the end state is true hybrid multi-cloud right we have to get there in ship shots and not moon shots and what I mean by that is if you were to say to a customer this is your end state right the path to get there is so donkey and it's like a moon shot that it paralyzes the customer if you break this down into a set of chip shots right that gets much easier so so put the infrastructure in place to be able to just have the visibility across applause then maybe automate movement from hi private the public cloud right then automate some of the processes that give you the most headaches then move to a bigger Ottoman Ottoman automation framework right so yeah areas like security network configuration right things like that those are those are very difficult for customers to do manually those are the things they should be automating today so what they want to do is almost take through their intent-based network to almost as a lighthouse the road to a visionary state and then help customers get there in pieces because if they try and rush them along too fast I think they'll lose the customer because the complexity is too high the other area they should really be focused on is continuing to mature the services business I think that's something under Chuck Robbins that's night and day different than what it was the services business - Cisco prior to Chuck was a lot of break fix you know their TAC is well renowned as being a great pack but now they've gotten more of the pro services they've gotten more into adoption services and I think the more subscription they sell what Cisco needs to really understand is that customers tend not to renew things they don't use right so making sure that the services group helps customers and use the things that they're paying for and that'll pay dividends for them multiple dividends for them down the road I want to get the silken one on that opportunity to upsell and do a refresh because what refreshes are not gonna be on the docket early on unless discuss business value so let's hold that for a second John Chambers has been on the cube recently in his new role as a coach and investor and he says to us on the cube you know transitions versus transformation Cisco and the big companies are expected to win the transitions but now with coming out of this there's real transformation so you got to look at things like collaboration hey guys get better this is not just win the enterprise with a better web max zoom is they can ask Bob teams is out there so you know Cisco's that's a huge collaboration piece and a bunch of other business so where's their transition wins and where's their transformational opportunity in Europe in well I think the entire company is kind of going through transformations right even on the network side so it's right it's like you know the industry has been calling Francisco to get commoditized for years right and if you look the product gross margins are actually the strongest they've been in a decade right so I remember when I fell below 60% they everybody thought the world was falling this quarter I think was a little over 65 on the product side and so my belief is nothing is really a commodity if you can drive innovation that's what's this has been doing so from a transition standpoint I think they've done a lot of that they've transitioned the company to software and services they've transitioned the company more terrain model they've actually decoupled software from the hardware so customers can buy differently and you brought up the fact that we may not have a hardware refresh but that's okay as long as they keep the software a newa cycles forth where the transformations has to come is completely change the dynamics of how something works and so with intent-based networking you think of the old way that network engineers to work like the way I used to work when I was an engineer a lot of hunting pecking and at a CLI doing a lot of cutting and pasting and using homegrown tools that doesn't scale anymore my research shows that on average takes companies about four months the implemented change network-wide far too slow for digital company right so Francisco's done is they've accelerated that by letting customers automate more things and so Francisco the transformation comes in allowing customers to new new things I think you read in the collaboration side there's more work to do nobody's got a bigger collaboration portfolio than Cisco they got endpoints they got rooms just right they've got software they were a cloud on Prem but they got to take that and tie it together and I think the other area that's is gonna need improving is on they've they've got a lot of management tools that that look at different things they have at the ACI manager and a whole bunch of different security consoles in fact they funded them sometimes and said that the market leader in single panes of glass because they have more than anybody right I think eventually they got to be able to tie that information together and help customers understand what it means from a cross domain perspective because they still build a product's wireless campus data center but as I mentioned before we just have one network and so Cisco can aggregate this data up apply machine learning to it and help customers what that means they see insight across the entire network that would really be powerful because they they've got the footprint now they just have to be able to deliver the machine learning based insights some customers understand what that data means and they have a unique opportunity in the short term no one's going to be kidding Cisco out anytime soon there's a safety rating and using the big companies I think what what Cisco is able to bring is a there's a level of financial stability that other companies may not have and so they can weather the storm for a long time so you know I it's easy to say going to Cisco is the safe bet it has been for a long time but but i but I think it's also the smart bet I think they're they're able to continue to invest in things maybe smaller companies more people do yeah my question on Cisco a big fan of their strategy have been vocal about that for a while my question on Cisco want to be critical is to say how fast can you get that development going show the software value in market show customers a growth trajectory that they can execute on it can advantage the network policy intelligence if they could do that they're gonna be in good shape you agree yeah I think one of the challenges though is the transformation of their customer base do and that's where the work Suzy we've been doing in the dev that teams so important like if if they were to shift their whole strategy over at the developer folks talk word today I think that would largely put them in a position or trouble because the engineers that work with the stuff and the resellers that work with the stuff aren't they don't really have the skill sets they advantage that right so last year Suzy we she really talked a lot about the growth a definite this year they came out with in Barcelona this year they they came up with a bunch of certifications for dev net now there they were actually coming out with a number of a partner certifications as well so the resellers can get certified but I think it's important that they continue to push their engineer base into gaining these new skills I'll give you an interesting data point for my research and that's you know that only about a quarter of networking engineers has ever made an API call right and so you look at all Cisco's new gear it's all API driven and so if you want to do something as simple as say get all the IP addresses in your network you can just use an API call for that right the other way to do it is you do a show command and the CLI your screen scrape and you take a visual basic trip that you parse it you know and you get it that way right so the API map using those is a lot easier and so I think Cisco's got a good strategy with Deb net they've grown that face a lot it's still relatively small you know it's under a million people and you think of the overall size the Cisco customer user base point that's where they gonna put some effort right more and more out driving adoption to them now well I think you're smarter than I think you're researching them they must be listening to you because they haven't really tried to jam that down their throats they've been very humble about it and I think a million is pretty damn good number I think Cisco again to your point they're bringing people into the water the low end first before you you go to the deep end so swim with the bubble if you will with definite what they did was they assumed the engineer had no knowledge of software because I think at first when they put the lot of the programs a place they assumed people would have some knowledge of how to code right and and I also think the industry did them a bit of a disservice we used her there was a lot of stuff written in the media how every network engineer needs to become a software developer well they don't have to summer get make them software developers but they at least have to come software power ease right so do your job through software but you don't have to be a developer and that's where definite really when it really matured is that diverge down to past developer engineer who's your saw common software skills and then you break down a specialist after that and so they've they've actually helped with the maturity of that they've changed their certification programs for reflect that and I think Devin that really is a big be and if they can transition that engineer base then it helps the adoption of the new on these I want to get your final thoughts on this segment on multi-cloud obviously it would be a really great win for it creates of interoperability strictly with the network intelligence cisco could bring to the table and others you got startups out there like aviatrix and others and vmware with nsx trying to get that for the security fabric a lot of action going on with multi cloud and networking your thoughts what does your research tell you what's gonna transpire how do you see that market playing out in my research shows that little R ad percent of companies prior to Co vid had multi-cloud on the roadmap and I'm assuming that's that's gone up I haven't actually done a survey since then um one of the I think it's funny koban exposed a lot of things from a lot of vendors right and I think one of the things that is is shown cracks in the cloud yeah you look at some of the the data and how many outages Microsoft had Google had some strains AWS has held up pretty well under the strain of of a lot of the higher utilization when coated but they've been building a lot of capacity into theirs as well so I think from a customer perspective it makes sense you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket some cloud providers are stronger in some regions they each have different their own different cloud platforms other private cloud platforms and the problem is is if you decide if you decide to go multi-cloud you can't use the cloud providers tools right so if I use an AWS load balancer that works great in AWS but it's not gonna help me with Azure or GCE similarly if I use GCP tools I can't extend that out the azure so something needs to connect those and be able to five security and policy and that's where multi cloud comes from and you're right there's some good startups there I think um the difference with Cisco this time versus the Sdn world was when as the ends came about I think Cisco didn't want that to happen and I think they actually actively worked against us the end and I've talked to chuck Robbins about that he said you'll never ever see Cisco do that again if something is good for the customers they want to lead that transition and so Cisco's been very active in multi focking and given they've got the install base already I do think they will help bring this long but there are some good stir yeah it's interesting Sdn really wasn't ready for primetime even when VMware bought in this era hey when it was still there I didn't have a lot of revenue it had a future VMware claims that's the saves and NSX was saved by a Sdn some people say was completely rewritten final thoughts on outlook and you see coming out of Ovid obviously it's been well reported we've been reporting VPNs have been under provision that was a blind spot bought a blind spots and disruption that wasn't forecasted in the classic sense there was no there was no you know hurricane there was no flood it was a covin invisible disruption yeah and there's no impact right like even with when you think of what happened with the the floods in New York and 9/11 people knew that they'd eventually go back and so business continuity and disaster recovery was a temporary thing and I can I set up a data center to work for a couple months so I can go back to New York that's not the case with koban where we're trying to manage for an undefined endpoint which is extremely difficult for an IT perspective I do think that Kogan again has highlighted the value of the network I think we'll see a lot of transition from VPN to sd when I think that's that's certainly good I think the rise in video will also cause a Wi-Fi upgrade cycle we'll get back to the office and I think you'll see a lot of focus on programmability and agility because I don't believe we're gonna see everybody return to the office was like one big bang John I think we're more likely to see is the future work to be almost like when you and I were in college we do a bunch of stuff at home we go to the campus when we have classes and when we want to meet people similarly we'll go to work when we have meetings and then in between meetings we'll go find an open place to work but in general we'll do a lot of work a lot more work from home in fact my research shows 93 percent of the business leaders I interviewed said they expect to see at least a 30 percent increase in the work from home post Kovan right so we're gonna have a lot more people doing that but it's not gonna be everyone working for home everybody work in the office it's gonna be a hybrid of the two people are gonna come and go and that bribes the need for agility and today's networks really not that agile and so I need I want to go back to college if we do thirsty happy hours do I mean have the whole week or the stupid stuff it's the final point you mentioned SP when I was talking with Dave Volante SP Minutemen just last week and I said you know this SD win today is not your grandfather's sdn meaning SP where it's changed a lot it's basically the internet now so what was the modern update definition of SD grin I mean it used to be you connect the wide area network you can have some campus you'd do some networking what is it now what's the same name but it's yeah what is it your journey the technology if you look at the adoption of anything right the first wave of stuff is to make the new stuff look like the old stuff so we put VoIP in we made it look a lot like TDM when we had cloud we lifted and shift it and how did we didn't really enjoy wraps and then we eventually get smart and think what can I do with the new thing that I can't do the old thing and so a lot of early SD win deployments were simply just replacements for MPLS and they were put in to save a bit of money but now companies are getting smarter they're thinking about what can I do with my SD win that I couldn't do before so there's a lot more tighter integration with security I think as companies but SD win in and and think about what the win is today John it used to be corporate offices and data centers I think it's everybody's house right and so being able to extend your win at the single people out to planes trains and automobiles you remember that movie but those are all getting connected as well people's back acts fan kiosk those are all becoming way endpoints right so that's where you need to embed more security in the network and so I think that's a transition we've seen into that see you and I think the technology has matured to the point where it's getting easier to deploy faster to flow and you're right we can use the internet for transport in some cases some will still keep there still be a lot of MPLS out there but I do think we wind up in this hybrid world but clearly then the time has never been better for for SD win I will see a rule of curve for that because it's the only way to extend the win the people's homes the things the cars and really anything that's connected you know that's such a great point and I think this is a real new once in the industry it's a whole nother rebirth of the category because the aperture is brighter you got policy you've got reliability and get security built in this is key key Johnny H salt key yeah yeah whole concept the AI ops becomes real because we're collecting data and we're able to use AI to automate operations so Z's we call it s T win 2.0 that's what you got to do we got making an acronym out of this come on we can't just saw s T when it is SD win - righto because it's the next it's that it's it's the second wave of it we're actually thinking about how to transform our companies so the the John Chambers quote of transition for transversus transformation is apropos because the like I said a lot of the waves that that Cisco went through early on was we transition the market and then we transform right and so SD win so far has been transitional moving away from the old thing but now in strength and defense formed where our entire network operates these gradients that always a pleasure to talk to you get the straight scoop for the signal right there from all the noise in the industry now more than ever people are gonna be focused on critical project so thanks for your insight as DK now can research great stuff and we'll keep keep following you in great guest thank you come on thanks John first burger okay cute conversation here remote we're doing our part either at home and studio quarantine in this is the cube virtual virtualization has come to the cube will do will do whatever it takes to get the content out there Z's thanks so much for coming I appreciate thanks for watching on John Currier [Music]

from the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world this is a cube conversation LeBron welcome to the cube studio I'm John Ferrier here in Palo Alto in our remote coverage of the tech industry we are in our quarantine crew here getting all the stories in the technology industry from all the thought leaders and all the newsmakers we've got a great story here about data data compliance and really about the platforms around how enterprises are using data I've got two great guests and some news to announce Kieran our CEO is the vice president of business development with elation and William Murphy vice president of technology alliances of big ID got some interesting news a integration partnership between the two companies really kind of compelling especially now as people have to look at the cloud scale what's happening in our world certainly in the new realities of kovin 19 and going forward the role of data new kinds of applications and the speed and agility are gonna require more and more automation more reality around making sure things are in place so guys thanks for coming on appreciate it Kieran William thanks for joining me thank you thank you so let's take a step back elation you guys have been on the cube many times we've been following you guys been a leader and Enterprise catalog a new approach it's a real new technology approach and methodology and team approach to building out the data catalogues so talk about the Alliance here why what's the news why you guys in Creighton is integration partnership well let me start and thank you for having us today you know as you know elation launched the data catalog a category seven years ago and even today we're acknowledging the leader as a leader in that space you know and but we really began with the core belief that ultimately data management will be drive driven more and more by business demand and less by information suppliers so you know another way to think about that is you know how people behave with data will drive how companies manage data so our philosophy put very simply is to start with people and not first not data and our customers really seem to agree with this approach and we've got close to 200 brands using our data you know our tool every single day to drive vibrant data communities and and foster a real data culture in the environment so one of the things that was really exciting to us is the in been in data privacy by large corporate customers to get their arms around this and you know we really strive to improve our ability to use the tool inside you know these enterprises across more use cases so the partnership that we're announcing with big ID today is really you know Big Ideas the leading modern data intelligence platform for privacy and what we're trying to do is to bring bring a level of integration between our two technologies so that enterprises in better manage and scale their their data privacy compliance capability William talked about big ID what you guys are doing you guys also have a date intelligence platform we've been covering gdpr for a very long time I once called I won't say it again because it wasn't really that complimentary but the reality has sit in and they and the users now understand more than ever privacy super important companies have to deal with this you guys have a solution take a minute to explain big-big ID and what you guys are doing yeah absolutely so our founders Demetri Shirota and Nimrod Beck's founded big idea in 2016 Sam you know gdpr was authored and the big reason there is that data changed and how companies and enterprises doubled data was changing pretty much forever that profound change meant that the status quo could no longer exist and so privacy was gonna have to become a day-to-day reality to these enterprises but what big ID realized is that to start to do to do anything with privacy you actually have to understand where your data is what it is and whose it is and so that's really the genesis of what dimitri nimrod created which which is a privacy centric data discovery and intelligence platform that allows our enterprise customers and we have over 70 customers in the enterprise space many within the Fortune hundred to be able to find classify and correlate sensitive data as they defined it across data sources whether its own Prem or in the cloud and this gives our users and kind of unprecedented ability to look into their data to get better visibility which if both allows for collaboration and also allows for real-time decision-making a big place with better accuracy and confidence that regulations are not being broken and that customers data is being treated appropriately great I'm just reading here from the release that I want to get you guys thoughts and unpack some of the concepts on here but the headline is elation strengthens privacy capabilities with big ID part nur ship empowering organizations to mitigate risks delivering privacy aware data use and improved adherence to data privacy regulations it's a mouthful but the bottom line is is that there's a lot of stuff to that's a lot of complexity around these rules and these platforms and what's interesting you mentioned discovery the enterprise discovery side of the business has always been a complex nightmare I think what's interesting about this partnership from my standpoint is that you guys are bringing an interface into a complex platform and creating an easy abstraction to kind of make it usable I mean the end of the day you know we're seeing the trends with Amazon they have Kendre which they announced and they're gonna have a ship soon fast speed of insights has to be there so unifying data interfaces with back-end is really what seems to be the pattern is that the magic going on here can you guys explain what's going on with this and what's the outcome gonna be for customers yeah I guess I'll kick off and we'll please please chime in I think really there's three overarching challenges that I think enterprises are facing is they're grappling with these regulations as as we'll talked about you know number one it's really hard to both identify and classify private data right it's it's not as easy as it might sound and you know we can talk a little bit more about that it's also very difficult to flag at the point of analysis when somebody wants to find information the relevant policies that might apply to the given data that they're looking to it to run an analysis on and lastly the enterprise's are constantly in motion as enterprises change and by new businesses and enter new markets and launch new products these policies have to keep up with that change and these are real challenges to address and you know with Big Idea halation we're trying to really accelerate that compliance right with the the you know the combination of our tools you know reduce the the cost and complexity of compliance and fundamentally keep up through a single interface so that users can know what to do with data at the point of consumption and I think that's the way to think about it well I don't know if you want to add something to that absolutely I think when Karen and I have been working on this for actually many months at this point but most companies don't have a business plan of just saying let's store as much data as possible without getting anything out of it but in order to get something out of it the ability to find that data rapidly and then analyze it so that decision makers make up-to-date decisions is pretty vital a lot of these things when they have to be done manually take a long time they're huge business issues there and so the ability to both automate data discovery and then cataloging across elation and big ID gives those decision makers whether the data steward the data analyst the chief data officer an ability to really dive deeper than they have previously with better speed you know one of the things that we've been talking about for a long time with big data as these data links and they're fairly easy to pull I mean you can put a bunch of data into a corpus and you you act on them but as you start to get across these silos there's a need for you know getting a process down around managing just not only the data wrangling but the policies behind it and platforms are becoming more complex can you guys talk about the product market fit here because there's sass involved so there's also a customer activity what's the product market fit that you guys see with this integration what are some of the things that you're envisioning to emerge out of this value proposition I think I can start I think you're exactly right enterprises have made huge investments in you know historically data warehouses data Mart's data lakes all kinds of other technology infrastructure aimed at making the data easier to get to but they've effectively just layered on to the problem so elations catalog has made it incredibly much more effective at helping organizations to find to understand trust to reuse and use that data so that stewards and people who know about the data can inform users who may need need to run a particular report or conduct a specific analysis can accelerate that process and compress the time the insights much much more than then it's are possible with today's technologies and if you if you overlay that on to the data privacy challenge its compounded and I think you know will it would be great for you to comment on what the data discovery capability it's a big ID do to improve that that even further yeah absolutely so as to companies we're trying to bridge this gap between data governance and privacy and and John as you mentioned there's been a proliferation of a lot of tools whether their data lakes data analysis tools etc what Big Idea is able to do is we're looking across over 70 different types of data platforms whether they be legacy systems like SharePoint and sequel whether they be on pram or in the cloud whether it's data at rest or in motion and we're able to auto populate our metadata findings into relations data catalog the main purpose there being that those data stewards and have access to the most authentic real time data possible so on the terms of the customer value they're going to see what more built in privacy aware features is its speed but you know what I mean the problem is compounded with the data getting that catalog and getting insights out of it but for this partnership is it speed to outcome what does the outcome that you guys are envisioning here for the customer I think it's a combination of speed as you said you know they can much more rapidly get up to speed so an analyst who needs to make a decision about specific data set whether they can use it or not and know at the point of analysis if this data is governed by policies that has been informed by big IDs so the elation catalog user can make a much more rapid decision about how to use that the second piece is the complexity and costs of compliance they can really reduce and start to winnow down their technology footprint because with the combination of the discovery that big ID provides the the the ongoing discovery the big ID provides and the enterprise it data catalog provided violation we give the framework for being able to keep up with these changes in policies as rules and as companies change so they don't have to keep reinventing the wheel every time so we think that there's a significant speed time the market advantage as well as an ability to really consolidate technology footprint well I'll add to that yeah yeah just one moment so elation when they helped create this marketplace seven years ago one of the goals there and I think we're Big Ideas assisting as well as the trusting confidence that both the users of these software's the data store of the analysts have and the data that they're using and then the the trust and confidence are building with their end consumers is much better knowing that there is the this is both bi-directional and ongoing continuously you know I've always been impressed with relations vision it's big vision around the role of the human and data and it's always been impressive and yeah I think the world spinning in that direction you starting to see that now William I want to get your thoughts with big id because you know one of the things is challenging out there from what we're hearing is you know people want to protect the sensitive data obviously with the hacks and everything else and personal information there's all kinds of regulation and believe me state by state nation by nation it's crazy complex at the same time they've got to ensure this compliance tripwires everywhere right so you have this kind of nested complex web of stuff and some real security concerns at the same time you want to make data available for machine learning and for things like that this is the real kind of things that the problem has twisted around so if I'm an enterprise I'm like oh man this is a pain in the butt so how are you guys seeing this evolve because this solution is one step in that direction what are some of the pain points what are some of the examples can you share any insights around how people are overcoming that because they want to get the data out there they want to create applications that are gonna be modern robust and augmented with whether it's augmented AI of some sort or some sort of application at the same time protecting the information and compliance it's a huge problem challenge your thoughts absolutely so to your point regulations and compliance measures both state-by-state and internationally they're growing I mean I think when we saw GDP our four years ago in the proliferation of other things whether it be in Latin America in Asia Pacific or across the United States potentially even at the federal level in the future it's not making it easier to add complexity to that every industry and many companies individually have their own policies in the way that they describe data whether what's sensitive to them is it patent numbers is it loyalty card numbers is it any number of different things where they could just that that enterprise says that this type of data is particularly sensitive the way we're trying to do this is we're saying that if we can be a force multiplier for the individuals within our organization that are in charge of the stewardship over their data whether it be on the privacy side on the security side or on the data and analytics side that's what we want to do and automation is a huge piece of this so yes the ID has a number of patents in the machine learning area around data discovery and classification cluster analysis being able to find duplicate of data out there and when we put that in conjunction with what elations doing and actually gave the users of the data the kind of unprecedented ability to curate deduplicate secure sensitive data all by a policy driven automated platform that's actually I think the magic gear is we want to make sure that when humans get involved their actions can be made how do I say this minimum minimum human interaction and when it's done it's done for a reason of remediation so they're there the second step not the first step here I'll get your thoughts you know I always riff on the idea of DevOps and it's a cloud term and when you apply that the data you talk about programmability scale automation but the humans are making calls whether you're a programmer and devops world or to a data customer of the catalog and halation i'm making decisions with my business I'm a human I'm taking action at the point of design or whatever this is where I think the magic can happen your thoughts on how this evolves for that use case because what you're doing is you're augmenting the value for the user by taking advantage of these things is is that right or am i around the right area yeah I think so I think the one way to think about elation and that analogy is that the the biggest struggle that enterprise business users have and we target the the consumers of data we're not a provider to the information suppliers if you will but the people who had need to make decisions every single day on the right set of data we're here to empower them to be able to do that with the data that they know has been given the thumbs up by people who know about the data connecting stewards who know about the subject matter at hand with the data that the analyst wants to use at the time of consumption and that powerful connection has been so effective in our customers that enabling them to do in our analytical work that they just couldn't dream of before so the key piece here is with the combination with big ID we can now layer in a privacy aware consumption angle which means if you have a question about running some customer propensity model and you don't know if you can use this data or that data the big ID data discovery platform informs the elation catalog of the usage capabilities of that given data set at the moment the analyst wants conduct his or her analysis with the appropriate data set as identified by the stewards and and as endorsed by the steward so that point in time is really critical because that's where the we can we can fundamentally shrink the decision sight yeah it's interesting and so have the point of attack on the user in this case the person in the business who's doing some real work that's where the action is yeah it's a whole nother meaning of actionable data right so you know this seems to where the values quits its agility really it's kind of what we're talking about here isn't it it is very agile on the differentiation between elation and big idea in what we're bringing to the market now is we're also bringing flexibility and you meant that the point of agility there is because we allow our customers to say what their policies are what their sense of gait is define that themselves within our platforms and then go out find that data classify and catalog at etc like that's giving them that extra flexibility the enterprise's today need so that it can make business decisions and faster and I actually operationalize data guys great job good good news it's I think this is kind of a interesting canary in the coal mine around the trends that are going on around how data is evolving what's next how you guys gonna go to market partnership obviously makes a lot of sense technical integration business model integration good fit what's next for you guys I'm sorry I mean I think the the great thing is that you know from the CEO down our organizations are very much aligned in terms of how we want to integrate our two solutions and how we want to go to market so myself and will have been really focused on making sure that the skill sets of the various constituents within both of our companies have the level of education and knowledge to bring these results to bear coupled with the integration of our two technologies well your thoughts yeah absolutely I mean between our CEOs who have a good cadence to care to myself who probably spend too much time on the phone at this point we might have to get him a guest bedroom or something alignments a huge key here ensuring that we've enabled our field to - and to evangelize this out to the marketplace itself and then doing whether it's this or our webinars or or however we're getting the news out it's important that the markets know that these capabilities are out there because the biggest obstacle honestly to adoption it's not that other solutions or build-it-yourself it's just lack of knowledge that it could be easier it could be done better that you could have you could know your data better you could catalog it better great final question to end the segment message to the potential customer out there what it what about their environment that might make them a great prospect for this solution is it is it a known problem is it a blind spot when would someone know to call you guys up in this to ship and leverage this partnership is it too much data as it's just too much many applications across geographies I'm just trying to understand the folks watching when it's an opportunity to call you guys welcome a relation perspective there that can never be too much data they the a signal that may may indicate an interest or a potential fit for us would be you know the need to be compliant with one or more data privacy regulations and as well said these are coming up left and right individual states in the in addition to the countries are rolling out data privacy regulations that require a whole set of capabilities to be in place and a very rigorous framework of compliance those those requirements and the ability to make decisions every single day all day long about what data to use and when and under what conditions are a perfect set of conditions for the use of a data catalog evacuation coupled with a data discovery and data privacy solution like big I well absolutely if you're an organization out there and you have a lot of customers you have a lot of employees you have a lot of different data sources and disparate locations whether they're on prime of the cloud these are solid indications that you should look at purchasing best-of-breed solutions like elation and Big Ideas opposed to trying to build something internally guys congratulations relations strengthening your privacy capabilities with the big ID partnership congratulations on the news and we'll we'll be tracking it thanks for coming I appreciate it thank you okay so cube coverage here in Palo Alto on remote interviews as we get through this kovat crisis we have our quarantine crew here in Palo Alto I'm John Fourier thanks for watching [Music] okay guys

>> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeffrey here with the Cube were Rhetorical Park in San Francisco on the shores of McCovey Cove. I just love saying that we >> haven't been here since >> 2014. We're excited to be back for a really interesting event is called Sports Tech Tokyo World Demo Day. This next guest has been at it for a number of years. A really cool technology. We're excited for the conversation and to welcome Mark Philip. He's the founder and CEO of Are >> You watching this Mark? >> Great to see you. Good to see you, too. Absolutely. So, first off, you've been Thio Park before. Here I have. It's been way too long. >> There are >> a few iconic stadiums in the world, and this has got to be one of the great. So let's get into it. So what is are you watching this all about? >> We are the best friend that is >> giving the digital tap on the shoulder when it's time to run to the couch. We monitor pitch by pitch, shot by shot data to figure out when the game gets exciting. I love my Yankees till death, but the >> Yankees Red Sox occasionally tend to >> take over my entire night when they play each other. So being able to get that tap on the shoulder saying, Hey, it's time to tune in or stop raking the leaves, there's a no hitter through eight. Okay, that's what we try to do. Okay, so let's break it down before we get some of the applications into which actor doing So You guys air, You're actively watching these games. You've got some type of an algorithm based on scoring plays. Pitch count. Are we? What are some of the things that drive? Whether this is an exciting game or not, it's a great question. The easiest way to think about it is if you imagine what a win probability graph looks like. So game probably starts off in the middle. Might go up or down based on who's winning, the more violently that graph goes up and down generally, the more exciting the game is, so when probability is a big factor. But also you think about rarity whether it's we had a no hitter last night, we had the Astros with a four picture no hitter a few weeks ago. You know, those sort of things that you don't see often, even if the game's nine nothing, even if the wind probabilities and changing. If that's a no hitter, that's something you want to turn into, right? And so are you tapping into just kind of some of the feeds that are out there in terms of what's happening in the game or you actually watching and using a I in terms of actually looking at a screen and making judgments? Sure, thankfully, I'm not watching or else I would never leave the house. But for us, it's about getting that real time live data. Okay, so I can see balls and strikes on my servers faster than I can see it on live TV, which is a little bit mind bending of time. So we work with the the official data sources. So whether it's a company like sport radar or stats or opt or Abels and pretty much anyone around the globe, we pull in that real time data so we can give people that tap on. The show says Hey, run to the couch. Run to the bar, tune in. Something interesting is about to happen, right? But what's entering your B to B play. So your customers are not me. Jeff, go to the couch. You're working through other people that might be motivated to have me run to the count. So how does your business model work? Who are some of your customers? What are some of the ways that they use your service? >> I'm I'm the guy behind the guy. I'm behind the >> Red Curtain, pulling the strings, you know, for us not to paint with an overly broad brush. But we're based in Austin, Texas, and one of the big things about a city like ours versus the city like this is that our companies tend to skew very B to B versus the Bay Area, which generally excuse a lot more B to C. So pitching to the cable companies, the sports providers, probably CBS Sports is our oldest customer right now. We work with small startups, more established folks, and everyone uses this differently. But the goal is the vision. Is that whether it's your DVR recording automatically when the game gets good or just making sure that, you know, maybe you want to place a bet on the Giants or if you are, ah, glutton for punishment my lowly Knicks if the if the spreads. Good enough, you know, getting that nudge when games get exciting is an accelerant. Not just for watching in, but I think, for fandom. Yeah, well, when Kevin Durant comes back, you'll get a bit more exciting >> Nets, not Nick's. I'm gonna give you one free one. So we had a conversation >> before we turn the cameras on about, you know, kind of this. This never ending attention span competition and the never ending shrinking of consumable media. And how you guys really play an interesting role in that evolution, where if you can give us a little bit deeper background, >> I think it's fascinating. You look at >> the N B A. That really any league. If you rewind five years ago, you have to pay to 5300 bucks to get access to anything digitally, and then you got access to everything, and then the NBA's said, Well, maybe just want to buy one team, so we'll let you pay things around 80 bucks and they just want to watch. One game will sell it to you for eight. I just want 1/4 with such for dollar 99 if you just want a few minutes with silty for 99 >> cents, and now they've done that really, really quietly. >> But I think it's seismic because I think all leagues we're gonna have to follow and do this. So if you look at these snack passes and especially as thes NFL rights are coming up, I could easily imagine someone like a YouTube or, I should say, a Google if they were to grab these rights, how easy would be to go to YouTube and get a game for a few bucks and how well their entire infrastructure would work. But rewind to today when you have 10 to 20 states that are online. As far as gambling goes, you take gambling. You take excitement analytics and you take the snack passes and you kind of mix him up in a pot and you get this vision of I can send you a Texas is Hey, LeBron has 60 points with 3/4. Do you want to pay 99 cents tow, Watch the finish, or do you want, let's say, place a wager on if he's gonna be Kobe's 81 point Lakers record and then we'll let you watch for free. And so getting both sides of that equation, whether your die hard or casual fan, it's hard to say no to both those options, right? And do you see within your customer base that drive to the smaller segmentation of snack packs? Is that driven by customer demand, or are they trying to get ahead of it a little bit and offer, you know, kind of different sizes of consumption, I guess, would be the right. >> Sure, I think the horse is out of the barn. I mean, imagine if >> we were still buying complete albums. Of course, we're buying tracks when we just wanna track the idea that we have to buy an entire season. No foul, 2430 games in an MLB season. Why won't you let me buy just one game? I say MLB leaves a million dollars on the table every single time is no hit bid because there's tons of people who have cut the cord, don't want to run to the bar, but would happily pay 99 cents to stream the last inning of a game on their phone on their commute. So I think it is a combination of digital. What shoring in that We're able to do these three single track sort of purchases, but also its people continue to cut the cord and rethink about how they spend their media dollars. It makes sense really interesting. So we're here. It's sports Tech, World Demo Day. What do you hope to get out of today? Why are you here? Gosh, at least to pay homage to the reason why I went to Tokyo for the first time and had life changing Rama and I feel like I need to sort of complete >> the cycle. Uh, sports like >> Tokyo is an amazing program. There's lots of different events that have shaped different ways. But there's something really unique about this. And when we all lands in Tokyo, I think it was something like 80 different entrepreneurs that came into met to meet with all of the Japanese sponsors. Everyone had the same vibe of just really happy >> to be there. >> They didn't take a percentage of these startups coming in, so you really saw different sizes, not just early stage, but late stages well and everyone was there, too. Connects and innovate and do interesting things together. So many of us were there for the first time that there's just a vibe to this event that I haven't seen in my 10 plus years in sports. Tak interesting. Well, Mark, great to sit down with you. Really cool story. And, um, I guess I'll be watching for your watching for your app. Is the man behind the man coming through my phone? Real sand Sounds great. >> All right. He's >> Mark. I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube World. World Tech demo today here at Oracle Park. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>> from Cambridge, Massachusetts. It's the Cube covering M. I. T. Chief Data officer and Information Quality Symposium 2019. Brought to you by Silicon Angle Media. >> Welcome back to M. I. T. In Cambridge, Massachusetts. Everybody You're watching The Cube, the Leader and Live Tech coverage. My name is Dave Volante, and it's my pleasure to introduce Matt Kobe, who's the vice president of business strategy Analytics of Chicago Bulls. We love talking sports. We love talking data. Matt. Thanks for coming on. >> No problem getting a date. So talk about >> your role. Is the head of analytics for the Bulls? >> Sure. So I work exclusively on the business side of the operation. So we have a separate team that those the basketball side, which is kind of your players stuff. But on the business side, um, what we're focused on is really two things. One is being essentially internal consultants for the rest of the customer facing functions. So we work a lot with ticketing, allow its sponsorship, um, marketing digital, all of those folks that engage with our customer base and then on the backside back end of it, we're building out the technical infrastructure for the organization right. So everything from data warehouse to C. R M to email marketing All of that sits with my team. And so we were a lot of hats, which is exciting. But at the end of the day, we're trying to use data to enhance the customer and fan experience. Um and that's our aim. And that's what we're driving towards >> success in sports. In a larger respect. It's come down to don't be offended by this. Who's got the best geeks? So now your side of the house is not about like you say, player performance about the business performances. But that's it. That's a big part of getting the best players. I mean, if it's successful and all the nuances of the N B, A salary cap and everything else, but I think there is one, and so that makes it even more important. But you're helping fund. You know that in various ways, but so are the other two teams that completely separate. Is there a Chinese wall between them? Are you part of the sort of same group? >> Um, we're pretty separate. So the basketball folks do their thing. The business folks do their thing from an analytic standpoint. We meet and we collaborate on tools and other methods of actually doing the analysis. But in terms of, um, the analysis itself, there is a little bit of separation there, and mainly that is from priority standpoint. Obviously, the basketball stuff is the most important stuff. And so if we're working on both sides that we'd always be doing the basketball stuff and the business stuff needs to get done, >> drag you into exactly okay. But which came first? The chicken or the egg was It was the sort of post Moneyball activity applied to the N B. A. And I want to ask you a question about that. And then somebody said, Hey, we should do this for the business side. Or was the business side of sort of always there? >> I think I think, the business side and probably the last 5 to 7 years you've really seen it grown. So if you look at the N. B. A. I've been with the Bulls for five years. If you look at the N. B. A. 78 years ago, there was a handful of Business analytics teams and those those teams had one or two people at him. Now every single team in the NBA has some sort of business analytics team, and the average staff is seven. So my staff is six full time folks pushed myself, so we'll write it right at the average. And I think what you've seen is everything has become more complex in sports. Right? If you look at ticketing, you've got all the secondary markets. You have all this data flowing in, and they need someone to make sense of all that data. If you look at sponsorship sponsorship, his transition from selling a sign that sits on the side of the court for these truly integrated partnerships, where our partners are coming to us and saying, What do we get out of? This was our return. And so you're seeing a lot more part lot more collaboration between analytics and sponsorship to go back to those partners and say, Hey, here's what we delivered And so I think you it started on the basketball side, certainly because that's that's where the, you know that is the most important piece. But it quickly followed on the business side because they saw the value that that type of thinking can bring in the business. >> So I know this is not, you know, your swim lane, but But, you know, the lore of Billy Beane and Moneyball and all that, a sort of the starting point for sports analytics. Is that Is that Is that a fair characterization? Yeah. I mean, was that Was that really the main spring? >> I think it It probably started even before that. I think if you have got to see Billy being at the M I t Sports Analytics conference and him thought he always references kind of Bill James is first, and so I think it started. Baseball was I wouldn't say the easiest place to start, But it was. It's a one versus one, right? It's pitcher versus batter. In a lot of cases, basketball is a little bit more fluid. It's a team. Sport is a little harder, but I think as technology has advanced, there's been more and more opportunities to do the analytics on the basketball side and on the business side. I think what you're seeing is this huge. What we've heard the first day and 1/2 here, this huge influx of data, not nearly to the levels of the MasterCard's and others of the world. But as more and more things moved to the mobile phone, I think you're going to see this huge influx of data on the business side, and you're going to need the same systems in the same sort of approach to tackle it. >> S O. Bill James is the ultimate sports geek, and he's responsible for all these stats that, no, none of us understand. He's why we don't pay attention to batting average anymore. Of course, I still do. So let's talk about the business side of things. If you think about the business of baseball, you know it's all about maximizing the gate. Yeah, there's there's some revenue, a lot of revenue course from TV. But it's not like football, which is dominated by the by the TV. Basketball, I think, is probably a mix right. You got 80 whatever 82 game season, so filling up the stadium is important. Obviously, N v A has done a great job of of really getting it right. Free agency is like, fascinating. Now >> it's 12 months a year >> scored way. Talk about the NBA all the time and of course, you know, people like celebrities like LeBron have certainly helped, and now a whole batch of others. But what's the money side of the n ba look like? Where's the money coming from? >> Yeah, I mean, I think you certainly have broadcast right, but in many ways, like national broadcast sort of takes care of it itself. In some ways, from the standpoint of my team, doesn't have a lot of control over national broadcast money. That's a league level thing. And so the things that we have control over the two big buckets are ticketing and sponsorship. Those those are the two big buckets of revenue that my team spends a lot of time on. Ticketing is, is one that is important from the standpoint, as you say, which is like, How do we fill the building right? We've got 41 home game, supposed three preseason games. We got 44 events a year. Our goal is to fill the building for all 44 of those events. We do a pretty good job of doing it, but that has cascading effects into other revenue streams. Right, As you think about concessions and merchandise and sponsorship, it's a lot easier to spell spot cell of sponsorship when you're building is full, then if you're building isn't full. And so our focus is on. How do we? How do we fill the building in the most efficient way possible? And as you have things like the secondary market and people have access to tickets in different ways than they did 10 to 15 years ago, I think that becomes increasingly complex. Um, but that's the fun area that's like, That's where we spend a lot of time. There's the pricing, There's inventory management. It's a lot of, you know, is you look a traditional cpg. There's there's some of those same principles being applied, which is how do you are you looking airline right there? They're selling a plane. It's an asset you have to fill. We have ah, building. That's an asset we have to fill, and how do we fill it in the most optimal way? >> So the idea of surge pricing demand supply, But so several years ago, the Red Sox went to a tiered pricing. You guys do the same If the Sox are playing Kansas City Royals tickets way cheaper than if they're playing the Yankees. You guys do a similar. So >> we do it for single game tickets. So far are season ticket holders. It's the same price for every game, but on the price for primary tickets for single games, right? So if we're playing, you know this year will be the Clippers and the Lakers. That price is going to be much more expensive, so we dynamically price on a game to game basis. But our season ticket holders pay this. >> Why don't you do it for the season ticket holders? Um, just haven't gone there yet. >> Yeah, I mean, there's some teams have, right, so there's a few different approaches you convey. Lovely price. Those tickets, I think, for for us, the there's in years past. In the last few years, in particular, there's been a couple of flagship games, and then every other game feels similar. I think this will be the first year where you have 8 to 10 teams that really have a shot at winning the title, and so I think you'll see a more balanced schedule. Um, and so we've We've talked about it a lot. We just haven't gone to that made that move yet? >> Well, a season ticket holder that shares his tickets with seven other guys with red sauce. You could buy a BMW. You share the tickets, so but But I would love it if they didn't do the tiered. Pricing is a season ticket holder, so hope you hold off a while, but I don't know. It could maximize revenues if the Red Sox that was probably not a stupid thing is they're smart people. What about the sponsorships? Is fascinating about the partners looking for our ally. How are you measuring that? You're building your forging a tighter relationship, obviously, with the sponsors in these partners. Yeah, what's that are? Why look like it's >> measured? A variety of relies, largely based on the assets that they deliver. But I think every single partner we talk to these days, I also leave the sponsorship team. So I oversee. It's It's rare in sports, but I stayed over business strategy and Alex and sponsorship team. Um, it's not my title, but in practice, that's what I do. And I think everyone we talked to wants digital right? They want we've got over 25,000,000 social media followers with the Bulls, right? We've got 19,000,000 on Facebook alone. And so sponsors see those numbers and they know that we can deliver impression. They know we can deliver engagement and they want access to those channels. And so, from a return on, I always call a return on objectives, right? Return on investment is a little bit tricky, but return on objectives is if we're trying to reel brand awareness, we're gonna go back to them and say, Here's how many people came to our arena and saw your logo and saw the feature that you had on the scoreboard. If you're on our social media channels or a website, here's the number of impressions you got. Here is the number of engagements you got. I think where we're at now is Maura's Bad Morris. Still better, right? Everyone wants the big numbers. I think where you're starting to see it move, though, is that more isn't always better. We want the right folks engaging with our brands, and that's really what we're starting to think about is if you get 10,000,000 impressions, but they're 10,000,000 impressions to the wrong group of potential customers, that's not terribly helpful. for a brand. We're trying to work with our brands to reach the right demographics that they want to reach in order to actually build that brand awareness they want to build. >> What, What? Your primary social channels. Twitter, Obviously. >> So every platform has a different purpose way. Have Facebook, Twitter, instagram, Snapchat. We're in a week. We bow in in China and you know, every platform has a different function. Twitter's obviously more real time news. Um, you know the timeline stuff, it falls off really quick. Instagram is really the artistic piece of it on, and then Facebook is a blend of both, and so that's kind of how we deploy our channels. We have a whole social team that generates content and pushes that content out. But those are the channels we use and those air incredibly valuable. Now what you're starting to see is those channels are changing very rapidly, based on their own set of algorithms, of how they deliver content of fans. And so we're having to continue to adapt to those changing environments in those social >> show impressions. In the term, impressions varies by various platforms. So so I know. I know I'm more familiar with Twitter impressions. They have the definition. It's not just somebody who might have seen it. It's somebody that they believe actually spent a few seconds looking at. They have some algorithm to figure that out. Yeah. Is that a metric that you finding your brands are are buying into, for example? >> Yeah. I mean, I think certainly there they view it's kind of the old, you know, when you bought TV ads, it's how many households. So my commercial right, it's It's a similar type of metric of how many eyeballs saw a piece of content that we put out. I think we're the metrics. More people are starting to care about his engagements, which is how many of you actually engaged with that piece of content, whether it's a like a common a share, because then that's actual. Yeah, you might have seen it for three seconds, but we know how things work. You're scrolling pretty fast, But if you actually stopped to engage it with something, that's where I think brands are starting to see value. And as we think about our content, we have ah framework that our digital team uses. But one of the pillars of that is thumb stopping. We want to create content that is some stopping that people actually engage with. And that's been a big focus of ours. Last couple years, >> I presume. Using video, huge >> video We've got a whole graphics team that does custom graphics for whether it's stats or for history, historical anniversaries. We have a hole in house production team that does higher end, and then our digital team does more kind of straight from the phone raw footage. So we're using a variety of different mediums toe reach our fans >> that What's your background? How'd you get into all of this? >> I spent seven years in consulting, so I worked for Deloitte on their strategy group out of Chicago, And I worked for CPG companies like at the intersection of Retailer and CPG. So a lot of in store promotional work helping brands think through just General Revenue management, pricing strategy, promotional strategy and, um stumbled upon greatness with the Bulls job. A friend gave me the heads up that they were looking to fill this type of role and I was able to get my resume in the mix and I was lucky enough to get get the job, and it's been when I started. We're single, single, single, so it's a team of one. Five years later, we're a team of six, and we'll probably keep growing. So it's been an exciting ride and >> your background is >> maths. That's eyes business. Undergrad. And then I got a went Indian undergrad business and then went to Kellogg. Northwestern got an MBA on strategy, so that's my background. But it's, you know, I've dabbled in sports. I worked for the Chicago 2016 Olympic bid back in the day when I was at Deloitte. Um, and so it's been It's always been a dream of mine. I just never knew how I get there like I was wanted to work in sports. They just don't know the path. And I'm lucky enough to find the path a lot earlier than I thought. >> How about this conference? I know you have been the other M I T. Event. How about this one? How we found some of the key takeaways. Think you >> think it's been great because a lot of the conferences we go to our really sports focus? So you've got the M. I T Sports Analytics conference. You have seat. You have n b a type, um, programming that they put on. But it's nice to get out of sports and sort of see how other bigger industries are thinking about some of the problems specifically around data management and the influx of data and how they're thinking about it. It's always nice to kind of elevated. Just have some room to breathe and think and meet people that are not in sports and start to build those, you know, relationships and with thought leaders and things like that. So it's been great. It's my first time here. What are probably back >> good that Well, hopefully get to see a game, even though that stocks are playing that well. Thanks so much for coming in Cuba. No problems here on your own. You have me. It was great to have you. All right. Keep right, everybody. I'll be back with our next guest with Paul Gill on day Volante here in the house. You're watching the cue from M I T CEO. I cube. Right back

>> live from Las Vegas. It's the queue covering Dell Technologies. World twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Dell Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> The one Welcome to the Special Cube Live coverage here in Las Vegas with Dell Technologies World 2019. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante breaking down day one of three days of wall the wall Coverage - 2 Cube sets. Uh, big news today and dropping here. Dell Technology World's series of announcements Cloud ability, unified work spaces and then multi cloud with, uh, watershed announced with Microsoft support for VMware with Azure are guests here theCUBE alumni that Seo, senior leader of'Em Where Sanjay *** and such a great to see you, >> John and Dave always a pleasure to be on your show. >> So before we get into the hard core news around Microsoft because you and Satya have a relationship, you also know Andy Jassy very well. You've been following the Clouds game in a big way, but also as a senior leader in the industry and leading BM where, um, the evolution of the end user computing kind of genre,  that whole area is just completely transformed with mobility and cloud kind of coming together with data and all this new kinds of applications. The modern applications are different. It's changing the game on how end users, employees, normal people use computing because some announcement here on their What's your take on the ever changing role of cloud and user software? >> Yeah, John, I think that our vision , as  you know, it was the first job I came to do at VMware almost six years ago, to run and use a computing. And the vision we had at that time was that you should be able to work at the speed of life, right? You and I happen to be on a plane at the same time  yesterday coming here, we should be able to pick our amps up on our devices. You often have Internet now even up at thirty thousand feet. In the consumer world, you don't lug around your CDs, your music, your movies come to you. So the vision of any app on any device was what we articulated with the digital workspace We. had Apple and Google very well figured out. IOS later on Mac,  Android,  later on chrome . The Microsoft relationship in end use the computing was contentious because we overlapped. They had a product, PMS and in tune. But we always dreamed of a day. I tweeted out this morning that for five and a half years I competed with these guys. It was always my dream to partner with the With Microsoft. Um, you know, a wonderful person, whom I respect there, Brad Anderson. He's a friend, but we were like LeBron and Steph Curry. We were competing against each other. Today everything changed. We are now partners. Uh, Brad and I we're friends, we'll still be friends were actually partners  now why? Because we want to bring the best of the digital workspace solution VMware brings workspace one to the best of what Microsoft brings in Microsoft 365 , active directory, E3 capabilities around E. M. S and into it and combined those together to help customers get the best for any device. Apple, Google and Microsoft that's a game changer. >> Tell about the impact of the real issue of Microsoft on this one point, because is there overlap is their gaps, as Joe Tucci used to say, You can't have any. There's no there's no overlap if you have overlapped. That's not a >> better to have overlapped and seems right. A gaps. >> So where's the gaps? Where this words the overlapping cloud. Next, in the end user world, >> there is a little bit of overlap. But the much bigger picture is the complementarity. We are, for example, not trying to be a directory in the Cloud That's azure active directory, which is the sequel to Active Directory. So if we have an identity access solution that connect to active directory, we're gonna compliment that we've done that already. With Octo. Why not do that? Also inactive Directory Boom that's clear. Ignored. You overlap. Look at the much bigger picture. There's a little bit of overlap between in tune and air Watch capabilities, but that's not the big picture. The big picture is combining workspace one with E. M s. to allow Office 365 customers to get conditional access. That's a game, so I think in any partnership you have to look past, I call it sort of these Berlin Wall moments. If the U. S and Soviet Union will fighting over like East Germany, vs West Germany, you wouldn't have had that Berlin wall moment. You have to look past the overlaps. Look at the much bigger picture and I find the way by which the customer wins. When the customer wins, both sides are happy. >> Tearing down the access wall, letting you get seamless. Access the data. All right, Cloud computing housely Multi cloud announcement was azure something to tell on stage, which was a surprise no one knew was coming. No one was briefed on this. It was kind of the hush hush, the big news Michael Delll, Pat Girl singer and it's nothing to tell up there. Um, Safia did a great job and really shows the commitment of Microsoft with the M wear and Dell Technologies. What is this announcement? First, give us your take an analysis of what they announced. And what does it mean? Impact the customers? >> Yeah, listen, you know, for us, it's a further That's what, like the chess pieces lining up of'Em wars vision that we laid up many years for a hybrid cloud world where it's not all public cloud, it isn't all on premise. It's a mixture. We coined that Tom hybrid loud, and we're beginning to see that realize So we had four thousand cloud providers starting to build a stack on VM, where we announced IBM Cloud and eight of us. And they're very special relationships. But customers, some customers of azure, some of the retailers, for example, like Wal Mart was quoted in the press, released Kroger's and some others so they would ask us, Listen, we're gonna have a way by which we can host BMO Workloads in there. So, through a partnership now with Virtue Stream that's owned by Dell on DH er, we will be able to allow we, um, where were close to run in Virtue Stream. Microsoft will sell that solution as what's called Azure V M, where solutions and customers now get the benefit of GMO workloads being able to migrate there if they want to. Or my great back on the on premise. We want to be the best cloud infrastructure for that multi cloud world. >> So you've got IBM eight of us Google last month, you know, knock down now Azure Ali Baba and trying you. Last November, you announced Ali Baba, but not a solution. Right >> now, it's a very similar solutions of easy solution. There's similar what's announced with IBM and Nash >> So is it like your kids where you loved them all equally or what? You just mentioned it that Microsoft will sell the VM wear on Azure. You actually sell the eight of us, >> so there is a distinction. So let me make that clear because everything on the surface might look similar. We have built a solution that is first and preferred for us. Called were MacLeod on a W s. It's a V m er manage solution where the Cloud Foundation stack compute storage networking runs on a ws bare metal, and V. Ember manages that our reps sell that often lead with that. And that's a solution that's, you know, we announced you were three years ago. It's a very special relationship. We have now customer attraction. We announce some big deals in queue, for that's going great, and we want it even grow faster and listen. Eight of us is number one in the market, but there are the customers who have azure and for customers, one azure very similar. You should think of this A similar to the IBM ah cloud relationship where the V C P. V Partners host VM where, and they sell a solution and we get a subscription revenue result out of that, that's exactly what Microsoft is doing. Our reps will get compensated when they sell at a particular customer, but it's not a solution that's managed by BM. Where >> am I correct? You've announced that I think a twenty million dollars deal last quarter via MacLeod and A W. And that's that's an entire deal. Or is that the video >> was Oh, that was an entirely with a customer who was making a big shift to the cloud. When I talked to that customer about the types of workloads, they said that they're going to move hundreds off their APs okay on premise onto via MacLeod. And it appears, so that's, you know, that's the type of cloud transformation were doing. And now with this announcement, there will be other customers. We gave an example of few that Well, then you're seeing certain verticals that are picking as yours. We want those two also be happy. Our goal is to be the undisputed cloud infrastructure for any cloud, any cloud, any AP any device. >> I want to get your thoughts. I was just in the analysts presentation with Dell technology CFO and looking at the numbers, the performance numbers on the revenue side Don Gabin gap our earnings as well as market share. Dell. That scales because Michael Delll, when we interviewed many years ago when it was all going down, hinted that look at this benefits that scale and not everyone's seeing the obvious that we now know what the Amazon scale winds so scale is a huge advantage. Um, bm Where has scale Amazon's got scale as your Microsoft have scales scales Now the new table stakes just as an industry executive and leader as you look at the mark landscape, it's a having have not world you'd have scale. You don't If you don't have scale, you're either ecosystem partner. You're in a white space. How do companies compete in this market? Sanjay, what's your thoughts on I thinkit's >> Jonah's? You said there is a benefit to scale Dell, now at about ninety billion in revenue, has gone public on their stock prices. Done where Dellvin, since the ideal thing, the leader >> and sir, is that point >> leader in storage leader inclined computing peces with Vienna and many other assets like pivotal leaders and others. So that scale VM, Where about a ten billion dollar company, fifth largest software company doing verywell leader in the softer to find infrastructure leader, then use a computing leader and softer, defined networking. I think you need the combination of scale and speed, uh, just scale on its own. You could become a dinosaur, right? And what's the fear that every big company should have that you become ossified? And I think what we've been able to show the world is that V M wear and L can move with scale and speed. It's like having the combination of an elephant and a cheetah and won and that to me special. And for companies like us that do have scaled, we've to constantly ask ourselves, How do we disrupt ourselves? How do we move faster? How do we partner together? How do we look past these blind spots? How do we pardon with big companies, small companies and the winner is the customer. That's the way we think. And we could keep doing that, you'll say so. For example, five, six years ago, nobody thought of VMware--this is going before Dell or EMC--in the world of networking, quietly with ten thousand customers, a two million dollar run rate, NSX has become the undisputed leader and software-defined networking. So now we've got a combination of server, storage and a networking story and Dell VMware, where that's very strong And that's because we moved with speed and with scale. >> So of course, that came to an acquisition with Nice Sarah. Give us updates on the recent acquisitions. Hep C e o of Vela Cloud. What's happening there? >> Yeah, we've done three. That, I think very exciting to kind of walk through them in chronological order about eighteen months ago was Velo Cloud. We're really excited about that. It's sort of like the name, velocity and cloud fast. Simple Cloud based. It is the best solution. Ston. How do we come to deciding that we went to talk to our partners like t other service providers? They were telling us this is the best solution in town. It connects to the data center story to the cloud story and allows our virtual cloud network to be the best softer. To find out what you can, you have your existing Mpls you might have your land infrastructure but there's nobody who does softer to find when, like Philip, they're excited about that cloud health. We're very excited about that because that brings a multi cloud management like, sort of think of it like an e r P system on top of a w eso azure to allow you to manage your costs and resource What ASAP do it allows you to manage? Resource is for materials world manufacturing world. In this world, you've got resources that are sitting on a ws or azure. Uh, cloud held does it better than anybody else. Hefty. Oh, now takes a Cuban eighty story that we'd already begun with pivotal and with Google is you remember at at PM world two years ago. And that's that because the founders of Cuban eighties left Google and started FTO. So we're bringing that DNA we've become now one of the top two three contributors to communities, and we want to continue to become the de facto platform for containers. If you go to some of the airports in San Francisco, New York, I think Keilani and Heathrow to you'LL see these ads that are called container where okay, where do you think the Ware comes from Vienna, where, OK, and our goal is to make containers as container where you know, come to you from the company that made vmc possible of'Em where So if we popularized PM's, why not also popularised the best enterprise contain a platform? That's what helped you will help us do >> talk about Coburn at ease for a minute because you have an interesting bridge between end user computing and their cloud. The service is micro. Services that are coming on are going to be powering all these APS with either data and or these dynamic services. Cooper, Nettie sees me the heart of that. We've been covering it like a blanket. Um, I'm gonna get your take on how important that is. Because back Nelson, you're setting the keynote at the Emerald last year. Who burn it eases the dial tone. Is Cooper Netease at odds with having a virtual machine or they complimentary? How does that evolving? Is it a hedge? What's the thoughts there? >> Yeah, First off, Listen, I think the world has begun to realize it is a world of containers and V ems. If you looked at the company that's done the most with containers. Google. They run their containers in V EMS in their cloud platform, so it's not one or the other. It's vote. There may be a world where some parts of containers run a bare metal, but the bulk of containers today run and Beyonce And then I would say, Secondly, you know, five. Six years ago, people all thought that Doctor was going to obliterate VM where, But what happened was doctors become a very good container format, but the orchestration layer from that has not become daugher. In fact, Cuban Eddie's is kind of taking a little of the head and steam off Dr Swarm and Dr Enterprise, and it is Cooper Navy took the steam completely away. So Senses Way waited for the right time to embrace containers because the obvious choice initially would have been some part of the doctor stack. We waited as Borg became communities. You know, the story of how that came on Google. We've embraced that big time, and we've stated a very important ball hefty on All these moves are all part of our goal to become the undisputed enterprise container platform, and we think in a multi cloud world that's ours to lose. Who else can do multi cloud better than VM? Where may be the only company that could have done that was Red Hat. Not so much now, inside IBM, I think we have the best chance of doing that relative. Anybody else >> Sanjay was talking about on our intro this morning? Keynote analysis. Talking about the stock price of Dell Technologies, comparing the stock price of'Em where clearly the analysis shows that the end was a big part of the Dell technologies value. How would you summarize what v m where is today? Because on the Kino there was a Bank of America customers. She said she was the CTO ran, she says, Never mind. How we got here is how we go floors the end wars in a similar situation where you've got so much success, you always fighting for that edge. But as you go forward as a company, there's all these new opportunities you outlined some of them. What should people know about the VM? We're going forward. What is the vision in your words? What if what is VM where >> I think packed myself and all of the key people among the twenty five thousand employees of'Em are trying to create the best infrastructure company of all time for twenty one years. Young. OK, and I think we have an opportunity to create an incredible brand. We just have to his use point on the begins show create platforms. The V's fear was a platform. Innocent is a platform workspace. One is a platform V san, and the hyper convert stack of weeks right becomes a platform that we keep doing. That Carbonetti stuff will become a platform. Then you get platforms upon platforms. One platforms you create that foundation. Stone now is released. ADelle. I think it's a better together message. You take VX rail. We should be together. The best option relative to smaller companies like Nutanix If you take, you know Veum Where together with workspace one and laptops now put Microsoft in the next. There's nobody else. They're small companies like Citrix Mobile. I'm trying to do it. We should be better than them in a multi cloud world. They maybe got the companies like Red Hat. We should have bet on them. That said, the end. Where needs toe also have a focus when customers don't have Dale infrastructure. Some people may have HP servers and emcee storage or Dell Silvers and netapp storage or neither. Dellery emcee in that case, usually via where, And that's the way we roll. We want to be relevant to a multi cloud, multi server, multi storage, any hardware, any cloud. Any AP any device >> I got. I gotta go back to the red hat. Calm in a couple of go. I could see you like this side of IBM, right? So So it looks like a two horse race here. I mean, you guys going hard after multi cloud coming at it from infrastructure, IBM coming at it with red hat from a pass layer. I mean, if I were IBM, I had learned from VM where leave it alone, Let it blossom. I mean, we have >> a very good partisan baby. Let me first say that IBM Global Services GTS is one about top sai partners. We do a ton of really good work with them. Uh, I'm software re partner number different areas. Yeah, we do compete with red hat with the part of their portfolios. Relate to contain us. Not with Lennox. Eighty percent plus of their businesses. Lennox, They've got parts of J Boss and Open Stack that I kind of, you know, not doing so well. But we do compete with open ship. That's okay, but we don't know when we can walk and chew gum so we can compete with Red Hat. And yet partner with IBM. That's okay. Way just need to be the best at doing containing platform is better than open shifter. Anybody, anything that red hat has were still partner with IBM. We have to be able to look at a world that's not black and white. And this partnership with Microsoft is a good example. >> It's not a zero sum game, and it's a huge market in its early days. Talk >> about what's up for you now. What's next? What's your main focus? What's your priorities? >> Listen, we're getting ready for VM World now. You know in August we want to continue to build momentum on make many of these solutions platforms. So I tell our sales reps, take the number of customers you have and add a zero behind that. OK, so if you've got ten thousand customers of NSX, how do we get one hundred thousand customers of insects. You have nineteen thousand customers of Visa, which, by the way, significantly head of Nutanix. How do we have make one hundred ninety thousand customers? And we have that base? Because we have V sphere and we have the Delll base. We have other partners. We have, I think, eighty thousand customers off and use of computing tens of millions of devices. How do we make sure that we are workspace? One is on billion. Device is very much possible. That's the vision. >> I think that I think what's resonating for me when I hear you guys, when you hear you talk when we have conversations also in Pat on stage talks about it, the simplification message is a good one and the consistency of operating across multiple environments because it sounds great that if you can achieve that, that's a good thing. How you guys get into how you making it simple to run I T. And consistent operating environment. It's all about keeping the customer in the middle of this. And when we listen to customs, all of these announcements the partnership's when there was eight of us, Microsoft, anything that we've done, it's about keeping the customer first, and the customer is basically guiding up out there. And often when I sit down with customers, I had the privilege of talking hundreds of thousands of them. Many of these CEOs the S and P five hundred I've known for years from S athe of'Em were they'LL Call me or text me. They want us to be a trusted advisor to help them understand where and how they should move in their digital transformation and compared their journey to somebody else's. So when we can bring the best off, for example, of developer and operations infrastructure together, what's called DEV Ops customers are wrestling threw that in there cloud journey when we can bring a multi device world with additional workspace. Customers are wrestling that without journey there, trying to figure out how much they keep on premise how much they move in the cloud. They're thinking about vertical specific applications. All of these places where if there's one lesson I've learned in my last ten twenty years of it has become a trusted advisor to your customers. Lean on them and they will lean on you on when you do that. I mean the beautiful world of technology is there's always stuff to innovate. >> Well, they have to lean on you because they can't mess around with all this infrastructure. They'LL never get their digital transformation game and act together, right? Actually, >>= it's great to see you. We'Ll see you at PM, >> Rollo. Well, well, come on, we gotta talk hoops. All right, All right, All right, big. You're a big warriors fan, right? We're Celtics fan. Would be our dream, for both of you are also Manny's themselves have a privileged to go up against the great Warriors. But what's your prediction this year? I mean, I don't know, and I >> really listen. I love the warriors. It's ah, so in some senses, a little bit of a tougher one. Now the DeMarcus cousins is out for, I don't know, maybe all the playoffs, but I love stuff. I love Katie. I love Clay, you know, and many of those guys is gonna be a couple of guys going free agents, so I want to do >> it again. Joy. Well, last because I don't see anybody stopping a Celtics may be a good final. That would be fun if they don't make it through the rafters, though. That's right. Well, I Leonard, it's tough to make it all right. That sounds great. >> Come on. Sanjay Putin, CEO of BM Wear Inside the Cube, Breaking down his commentary of you on the landscape of the industry and the big news with Microsoft there. Other partner's bringing you all the action here Day one of three days of coverage here in the Cubicle two sets a canon of cube coverage out there. We're back with more after this short break.

>> Produced from the Cube studios. This's strong by science, in depth conversations about science based training, sports performance and all things health and wellness. Here's your hose, Max Marzo. I'm with >> the one and only Cory Slush Inger Cory is the director of men's sorry, director of performance from men's basketball at Stanford University. Good friend of mine, extremely passionate human. And for those you don't know former college basketball Hooper Corey really happened. Happy on a day to thank you for being here. >> No, man, it's an absolute pleasure. Me, Max. It's It's kind of crazy how our relationship has evolved throughout the years. Ah, start with Diem. You know, that's how it usually goes, the way your T shirt and he's got hair. So I wish I was that God, like I got it down here, but I got it out talk. So don't worry, Max. I'm going to make you a T shirt and I'm sending Teo. You said >> make a T shirt. I >> will wear >> until you plant cast with you again. >> Be careful with the pick. Might be >> way careful with that. Wait. Speaking of that, Corey, I mean, before we went on air here, you have a little story about your beard. And not to say you're only known for the beard, but the beer definitely is a staple in the slashing. Your appearance give me back for that. I want to hear it, and they will dive into some of the science. >> Yeah, man. So as far as the beard, I mean, it started at you. Maybe we're on a Spanish tour went overseas, and I did. One of those crazy handlebar mustache is right. I mean, it was gnarly, but being overseas just didn't shave, right? I mean, we're there for almost a week and a half, and I just started growing out the stubble. And then people are like, keep it going. And so I kept going and we were winning a lot of games. And then we end up winning a championship. And so it became like the tournament beard or became like the season beard. And so I just kept rolling it from there, and yeah, that's that's kind of where the beard is stated for now. And then when I realized, like if I could, it almost looks like a cancer patient. So I needed a key because he's blond eyebrows, man from five feet away. It looks like I'm ball period like I can't grow here. So, yeah, that's where the beard states is at this point. >> Well, Iet's fifty. I'm getting mine going. I'm not going to your caliber. I keep it trimmed, but it makes me feel like I'm a scientist or something. If I have a beard, makes you more intelligent, but getting off the topic here. When it comes to developing anybody, people say, you know, athletes, athletes, athletes athletes are what zero point zero zero one percent of population when it comes to developing anybody at all. We got talking about the bass aspects of human movement human development. You have an interesting take on this, and I don't want to spoil it for the listeners. I'd rather have you say it first, cause I'll just bastardized and screw it up. You're going to take on developing anybody regardless if they're an athlete or just general population, >> right? I mean, if you look through human evolution one or two things that we used to do, I used to farm. We used to kill things with our hands. We used to climb, you know, we used to throw things, you know? I mean, look at the the early Olympics, right? I mean, that's basically what the events wass. He wrestled someone. You ran faster than someone. You ran further than someone, and you threw some things. I and basically that's what human capacity is. So my goal before we actually trained them to be better athletes, is to make them better humans first, because if I can express their ability to be a better human, then they will be able to express their ability to be a better athlete. >> Joshua and with those movements, selections. If you have unique choice food people who don't follow up Instagram better weigh on your instagram handle at the end. But the selections of exercises you pick, it's not traditional a sense. Let's load a bar up. Let's do a hand claim you really take ownership of different shaped objects for that way, whether it be a yoke, whether it be a kettle bell, how do you come up with the most movements? Elections? What goes into that decision making? And for any individual out there, whether they are fast ball player who's seven one or a guy who's five eight, how do you decide which of those implements are best fitted for you? >> Well, everything that shaped the way I believe is one hundred ten percent based off my environment. And look, I played college basketball. Don't look at my stats. I was not that good, but I trained in or I've played with, and now for ten years I've trained that basketball athletic population, so you can imagine with me. Okay, I'm five foot ten. Very average, at best, especially with my links, man. Now imagine six foot six, but a seven foot two weeks man and all those things that I was good at, clean snatched jerk. You know, I was a purist in the beginning. I mean, of course I was right. I was just learning what strength iss How to be strong. Now, I'm trying to imagine further. Like, how do I have impact? How do I have quote unquote transfer? What? I'm trying to load these freaks. I mean, these guys are not normal human beings, right? They got seven foot two wings fans and short torso, so their levers are crazy. So now I'm asking them to do the same things that got me strong. Being at five. Ten, it just doesn't make much sense to me now, Not saying they don't have the capacity to do it mean help. Be honest with you. Some of my best weightlifters actually been seven foot tall, But that being said, if there's a way I can load them, that makes a lot more sense. That's easy to teach. I could do it often, and it's right in their comfort zone now, not comfort as in like we're not training hard, but like in their center of mass, where they can actually manipulate loads heavy loads at that with decent speeds. Then, yeah, I'm going to do that. So, for instance, we look at a bar bell, clean snatches all good. Why can't we do the same intent with a trap door? I mean, we could still pull. We could still triple extend and then we can still catch in that power position. The only thing that changes is the complexity of the movement. Now I'm not manipulating myself around a straight bar bell. It's in my centre of mass. And now I, Khun Express quote unquote force. Ah, lot more efficient, Effective. So now I can load it more loaded faster and do less teaching. Yeah, I do that. That makes a lot of things So that's really what it came from. And then to be honest with you, But how do you experience that light? How do you know a seven foot feels like? How do you know? And so you know, I've dabbled town some ways too. Open up my consciousness, if you will, to allow me to feel that ord, allow the imagination, my creativity to tryto understand what that could feel like. And then, of course, obviously feedback from my athletes. But I mean, why you always see, like the old school dues were just like, Oh, this is weak. This is squad. We we box what we what do we do? Whatever to get strong. But it's like, you know, it makes sense. If you're five foot six, it doesn't make much sense if your seven foot tall so you've got a truly find ways to experience it yourself. And now by the means that you do that probably not going to talk about on this podcast. But the way I did it work. >> Yeah, well, we'll refrain from diving that specific. I'd appreciate it on because to each his own one of the things you mentioned like talking about Hooper's I played basketball. I played your Batch three point shooter. Anyone's listening, too, By the way, when my feet are set, I'm not. I'm not an athlete, but I could shoot the shit out of basketball. I'LL be very blunt with you. I've >> been on the receiving end of that on one of our own game. You don't have to talk when you busted my ask way >> down to like. A lot of basketball players are bad movers, and what I mean by that it's their very good when you put a ball in their hands. That is something you talked about, too. But when you get them in a dance room right there, a lot different than football players and I mean by that is you don't see a bad end zone celebration, right? Want touchdown dances look really good, Odell Beckham being very soon and a lot of it's because those patterns are done without a ball in their hand. This is my opinion and they're very primal and natural with a minute and basketball everything's doing the ball in their hand and then when they start to move, especially because they're developing this, you starts. We're like a third rate. Now they have to only play basketball. And typically you don't play football and basketball, especially football. The high level, because you know you prepping for the basketball season itself. >> You get that deal in Scotland. Shit, bro, >> You have to play basketball for every waking hour the next fifteen years to get there. I'm kidding, but I'm thinking about my head is we're not exposed to those different movement. Parents were stuck in this ninety foot unless you're how light is forty six feet, something like that with court that really constrains how we move. And then you put someone in a waiting room where all the son of dealing with external loads and very unique movement patterns you get guys who just looked walking and I think you talked about this on different podcast, but I want to get into a little bit. Here was, I think so. That stems from our coaching of a young athletes and our physical education that we no longer does. Have we used to have back in the day and how that's really affecting athletes as they get older. >> I couldn't agree more. I mean, I get these quote unquote specialized athletes. And to be honest with you, I don't have athletes like I have guys who have a basketball in their hand. They got really long levers and they have some skill, right? They have some skill to be able to go from point A to point B and put on orange round ball into a cellar. That's that's so happen to be ten foot off the ground. That's what I have. I don't have a true athlete who can pick things up off the floor who could sit down on the floor and stand up, who can throw things who can sprint, who could jump onto things. I mean, some of the best vertical jumps that you see in basketball are not even close to what you would see in football and track and field. When you think this is a sport with the high flyers counter movement, jump hands on hips averages that I've seen on teams eighteen inches and everybody is like Oh, that's terrible But that's a true counter movement jump with long levers. So now if we add some momentum to that and add a seven foot two wingspan and then all of a sudden their elbows above the ramp. Right? So that's the difference we get. We see this a NRI or this false thought, or this false vision of what athleticism is because they're so long. But in reality. And then you put a bunch of cornerbacks out there that would be really special to see, because these are guys that are like five foot ten and the most explosive fast dude you've ever seen. There's don't have the skill to play basketball. So you know, with the way we are, physical education is set up now, obviously has been chopped in half, half, half so no more education. Physical education is what we get to. They only play one sport. They sit in chairs that they're not really made to be. They live in this wart western society where every chair they sit in Is that it? His ninety, which for them is more like this, right? And then they get up and down on these beds that their feet are hanging off of. So I don't know what sleep looks like for that. And if you saw my guys get on an airplane, a commercial airplane, you would be cringing the entire time because they're literally bundled up like this. And so not on ly. Are we trying to correct childhood development? I'm trying to correct what they deal with on a daily basis. Just walking the class. We watching my guys duck through door frames constantly. It is like some some of them are guards and they're ducking through frames. And you're just like I don't know how you've made it this far without knocking yourself out. So there's so many that it's really all about the environment and her. When I've trained my athletes, it's all about giving them the environment they have never had. So that's why we utilize the resting room. The gymnastics room. It's soft had so they know, so they don't necessarily fear the ground. They don't fear their interactions gravity. So now I'm giving them the ability to learn how to change levels. You know, little guys. So I don't see six foot ten guys wrestling, right? So I have an opportunity. Now they learn how to interact and change levels, and then even more so you put somebody with them. So now we're like pushing and pulling, just like you see in football. So now they know where they put their feet. So now we're not stepping on feet constantly looking. I mean, God, Hey, these guys are like because sixteen seventeen shoes like, of course, I'm going to step on each other's speed. But if they have that awareness in that sense of where other people are, then maybe they don't make that misstep. Or maybe they get their self out of harm's way and then even more so just learning how to fall. They learn how to fall properly from standing toe floor transitions. Then, when they jumped through the air at forty two inch words, whatever you see, that's make believe for you. Switch vertical right word, but and then they get hit in the air, and now they've got to figure out the most effective way. Not the break there. Nash. Well, most of the guys are going to do everything they can to stay on their feet. Well, that's where you want to get blown out, right? So now if I can give them a tumbling strategy, so now that they can interact with the floor a lot more smoother, athletic, well, then maybe they have a chance to not get hurt and be be back in the action, right? So it's performance enhancing as well as injury mitigation. >> I >> know that. I mean, I don't know where to begin. I have about nine comments off that. First. I love the idea of talking about how these guys are living in a world built for some one, five, ten. I'm six two and Kelsey, my girlfriend. But, hey, can you reach above and grab the top? Can apostle whatever I'm like? Yeah, Okay. But you look at a guy until you actually play hoops. I think, and really appreciate how big these dudes are. You play. It's a guy who's seven one. You look at him and go, Oh, my gosh, like that's at a different human. And then you know his shoe size next to you and you shake his hand and you get to the other side of his hand. You start to understand, like, who we dealing with here, right? You look at these, you know the body needs to heal when it goes into a stress or whatever, and we're putting these guys in positions that the body would not otherwise deem for recovery right now, like this call. Time out. Is that the funniest thing? MBA timeouts. Aside from LeBron James, that's got the nine foot chair right? These guys come out and these will stools that are too small for meaning, and >> so they're not really >> rusting. And you got a dude who's trying to recover his heart rate, but really the whole time, he's in a hip flexion. He's never been in the past, you know, thirty years, right? And if you're thinking about really taking care of an athlete, we spend so much time in the weight room and all this great stuff we can do. So Muchmore. If we had a liberty, too, I use we usually more like you, um, to you, then develop an environment that conducive to them. I know University. Kentucky did that. If you look at their dorm rooms, they had ESPN going on two years ago when they built at the new facility. For the basketball players, the sinks were higher, the magical tired, they were longer. And if you ever wash a guy who's seven foot dragging on the water fountain, I mean the amount of spinal flexion he has to go under. It's ridiculous. The guy's curling up in a C. And I mean, that's crazy to think about because the whole time on the way we were talking about how do we get these guys in a position that they can function successfully? And right now it's like optimally because obviously would have been something we did fifteen years ago to get in a position, right? But how do we get them to be successful? So I pose the question to your court. I'm gonna give you the keys to the castle. The kingdom. Okay, Philip, um, maybe not the whole environment. But there's three things you like to change the outside of the weight room that you had the crystal ball and you could go either back in time more just socially. Okay. I want to change his guys. You know, the size of his car. You know that the chair he sits and we're three things that you pick and dio >> number one. I would get them involved and dance or martial arts as their first sport. That would be probably number one so or gymnastics something. I don't care how tall you are like Who cares if you're not trying Win a gold medal at three, Right? Is just learning how to do those things right? Understanding your body number two. I would change how physical education is and in western society, um, and then number three. Let's give you something actual physical number three. If I could make what? I >> got some for you. Well, you're thinking, OK, I got you want to think your third for me? Basketball players eat horribly. You're so single, teacher. Yeah, basketball players, at least by team. And I will make this universal blanket statement. They just don't like to eat for some reason. Right? Who for? Three hours and drinking game and call it good. And I don't get it like I have a fat ass. My play. I gained weight in season. Really? Team he'll know what a food I take over which you're pulling their postgame meals. And that's when they remove the snack girl. Remember the snack role when, uh, >> you know, you have todo I had Taco Bell, bro. Like we won. We got talking about, you know? So I asked the level Appalachia, which we suck. >> I think I'm going to go a little. Can't you apologize? We're going to go play and that's a D three hoops. That's finest. We're rolling to a game. It's up north took a four hour drive and we stopped at the rude crib an hour and a half before taking a corner booth buffet of ribs. They got a bunch of island boys here. The rib crib you bring up platters were basically, you know, and capacity. And when they get like five points because our center had to pull out the throat at halftime. >> Yeah, it is. Did you ever have to drive the team ban? Because I have ways in the backseat in the bag who thought that was, like level once again, level athlete, that unreal. But I would say that the third thing Don't be wrong. Yes, food. But if there's a way, I mean, if there's a truly economical way across the board to just look, it got health, we could do that, don't care. But I can change your environment that could change your internal environment and will, And the number one is if I can just poof your gut and I can look at everything, then that will be the number one, because just a little moving world. But I don't know how you're absorbing it. I don't know what's going on. And then you wantto talk about these kids that you know, a phD or these kids that are super restless. Well, I think it starts with the gut, because if you're got health sucks, so does this. So that would be the third thing. >> No, that's crazy That way. May I have a little bit of experience is our company. I don't deal with the actual read now that the things I've learned and seeing the idea of taking that integrated approach. So hey, let's actually look at your stomach. Yes, you have to collect your poop three times a day, and I'm sorry. If you're going to do that, you can start to look at what you produced and way of excreting and whether or not you're absorbing what you need to absorb. And we start looking at injuries and no tendon, health and muscle tissue, everything as a holistic approach. What? We gotta look at the internal environment if any of our environments messed up inside and we're trying to impose a stressor on the body. But we have no idea what the internal systems like, and you have certain deficiencies or certain aspects that your lack and these were certain areas where it again people go, Oh, that's not scientific. There's no study. Well, unfortunately, if you understand complex systems and their dynamic interactions and not to get too detail, I'Ll explain it as simple as I can. But what happens is we have an outcome like a strange angle, and we say, Oh, and go weak angle get hurt, right? Well, kind of grooming. Or maybe it's ankle week. That's a risk factor. Athlete didn't sleep enough the past three nights. Risk factor Athlete had some sort of physical contact during the game. That critter there system risk factor athlete. Nutritionally, it wasn't recovering from previous workouts and games. Risk factors so happens of all these risk factors, and that's just a very there's no all the risk factors. A lot involved, all but these risk factors come about and then we have the probabilistic nature of something toe happen. So oh, how likely is it that something bad will go wrong and we see the last straw on the camel's back sprain an ankle and we go a week. But maybe it's didn't sleep enough Ankle week. All this other stuff and that ankle sprain. For people interested in complex systems, it's called an emergent pattern. So there's a common pattern that occurs when you have things go wrong. So if the money C l it's like, Oh, gluten medias is weak knee Val Agus. All right, you're a muscular control all these things that go into and nothing can pinpoint it. So if we're including these bomber, you know about mechanical factors and Eve Alvis, why aren't we including some internal factors like gut health Or, you know, the blood wood for the micro nutrient efficient season? Yes, I know I'm not versed enough to speak on micronutrient deficiencies and our interactions off, you know, health and whatnot. But something as simple as college in environments haven't adequate vitamin C for, you know, ten and healing instead of, you know, repair is obviously a factor. And so when we start looking the bottom, we gotta look at the big picture. It's not just how your knee bends. It's not how you shoot a jump shot. It's not how you land every time. >> Where are you? Our body is so much more resilient and durable than you. Give it credit for me. We've survived as a species. We're a very long time. You're very harsh conditions and you're going to tell me it's that one jump that got you one job. One job is the one that Oh, that needs a little dalliance. That's the one that got you. I mean, if you super slow mo A lot of these great expressions of physical capacity in sport it was you would be like, Oh, my God, they're neither this there that But in reality, like that's I'm close to the reason why they like break or don't Break. And Jordan shallow, brilliant dude, He gave me this metaphor. He was saying to Philip, a pond, Well, it's like this fungus that will Philip a pond and it doubles its size every day. So if it starts off it like, you know, point two, then the next day be point for and he asked me, he's like, Okay, if it's going to Philip in thirty days, Philip, the whole pond, What's the day? It's half full. Then I thought for a second it took me a lot longer than I should have thought about it. But he's like, but he an injection goes day twenty nine. I >> don't want an answer, by the way. >> Yeah, was like Day twenty nine I. That's why I look at the human body like that is literally the last thing and then pull. And so it's all these. We could have had all these interventions from day to today twenty eight or day twenty nine. Even the notes that one just last. Ah, strong. The camel's back to just there goes, you know, And that's what's great about being in the collegiate setting. And being a Stanford is we have a lot of safety nets for our safety, and that's if you will. So we try to have as many quote unquote KP eyes and objective measurements to give us an idea of what could possibly happen. But in reality, it's still the dynamic environment, so I don't understand. Like I can't account for school. I can't account for their sleep. I mean, we could through, like, grouper or or whatever, but it's not realistic and thine and are setting and in their gut hell's like way picking up poop. Three times a day. They were not drawn blood once. We're not doing these things. So unless we're doing that, then you're just trying to create most resilient, durable human beings so they can withstand the stressors some more than others. But hopefully have a successful season. >> No, that's like I hate to break it to people. We don't know what we're doing. We're doing our best. I think chase Wells with him. A Stanford. Get a great line, he said. We can't guarantee success. We can almost guarantee you're not guaranteed to fail. And what I mean by that is that you can't always KP eyes and really, we're looking at. If you jump nine inches, we're probably not going to be very good basketball unless you're seven. No, right. And so we're looking at the human system as a means of understanding what is going on really lagged behind in regards to your performance assessment and what might be hindering you in regards to launch into no tracking? Can I get a little bit of data? A lot? The way explain it is kind of like I don't ask my girlfriend Kelsey, how she's doing. Once a week, you know. I asked her every day and why I asked that every day is to realize, you know, all my clothes that I left out pissing her off. You know, I did. I forget that we're supposed to go on a date last night. You know, I might not have forgot a wallet last night. We went to dinner from now on, Accent, all supposed to buy. But that's a true story. WeII >> brought up. I mean, that's the most important thing is you gotta have feedback daily, right? And wait here. It's really simple. We take a controlled environment, do some things in it before they go into a dynamic environment, which is basketball games of basketball practice. So what we do is we call that microdot. It's our way of training. Every day, in some form or fashion, these individuals come into their work, their human capacity, a Siri's, if you will. Then after that, they go into their B series, which is complex. This is really what I know what's going on. I don't get me wrong when they walk in to get their weight, are joking or making eye contact and get that handshake. How firm is that handshake thes air, All the quantitative things that I'm trying to pick up as they're coming through the door. Then you watch them say We're hitting clean, complex and they're going through the motions and their consulate changing grip or or the pool isn't looking too good, and any sharp today will boom. That's my control Now. It's not the most objective feedback, but at least it's a constant. And so that's my way of having once against safety nets from a safety nets and then weekly or depending on how many games we have that we do, our force plate jumps. So once again, another safety net, and then we have our connects on day. So our GPS data that they do on the practice gym once again any one of those in isolation doesn't tell me much. But if I have a bunch of them, then I can at least paint a better picture from quantitative qualitative, and then I can go and knit. Pick what I think they're intervention may need to be, and so it's not going to be perfect, not even close, but as long as you have a constant and yours is beautiful. Like you said, Just something simple. You get daily. Hey, how are you doing? And you know how they express that. I'm doing good. I'm doing good. I'm cool. I'm great. Like, you know, what there was in flux is are like, you know what? They're how they're truly feeling. Just based off that one question alone. But once again, if you can set up your system or your program or whatever toe have safety nets for your safety nets, then I think you can You can catch a >> lot of those along the way. >> Yeah. No, that makes sense. It's how you provide context to a situation. And the more information that we can apply that we didn't classifier more to a system like jumping is, you know, your lower body strength and your verbal expressions, your most emotional state on DH, maybe even sweep or other things that go into that, the more we could understand what's actually happening to the person. So I was kind of really bad for a second. You said some of micro dose in and term overdose. You refer into training a little bit often. Yep. And Corey is well known for this and for those at home listening, I'm going to my best to explain it. Short weeks. I got a question off of it. If you know, explains it will stay here for another hour and a half because great to listen to. But I want Teo a little bit of a different direction off of athletics about it. Firstly, micro doses the idea that we're applying a moderate level toe, low level stressor consistently, and that adaptation occurs from the aggravation off those dresses over a period of time. So we're never going to Hi, we're never going to low. And the idea is that training in the weight room is only one small piece of your life. They even programmed High Day, and you don't sleep that night or you have emotional stressor for your case, your practice. Then all of a sudden, that high, big, magnified and starts spilling over the bar and becomes too much the idea of micro dozing, especially a non controlled external environment where it's called life, and we're trying to apply enough that you can handle. If someone's feeling good, then they can push a little bit that they themselves. Now My question for you, Cory, is I love an athletic sense. I also see it being very applicable to anyone out there general population and especially in terms of I got two things. Us too. In terms of one, someone learned a movement. You get a chance to do it often and daily and someone who wants to learn how to be in the weight room. And secondly, because there are, let's say we do it eight out of ten days. If you only miss one day, you're only missing ten percent of your entire workout, right? So instead of doing looking at this whole one workout one day, you look at like a ten day period. If you got eight days of pick from and you just can't do one, you only missed ten percent versus if you only had five days of pick one and you miss one, you missed twenty percent, right? And so now we have the ability to be more flexible in our environment. So how does that fit in like a general population? If it was my dad or my girlfriend trying to learn howto use some of this micro dose in the weight room. How do you plan? >> So one hundred percent with micro dozing. The reason why it came about was it was a solution to a problem. My problem is I don't have enough exposure to my guys. So how do I create more training frequency? And now we got rid of warm up something that was just kind of getting them ready for practice. That kind of don't care about it. The coach hated seen me do it. I personally hated doing it. So now it was a solution. What it turned into was motor learning. Now you want to learn how to train, will do it all the time. So that's where complex comes in. It's the value of orcs work, right? So basically, you take a bar bill and you do every movement that you would do in a weight room, in some sense, in one set, so you'd hinge You do a hip flexion. You do a press, do a pool. If I break down each one of those into isolation, it would look like already else Squad, Polish, military, press or row, those air all movements that you would do and if you separated each exercise in an isolation you would go more resistance on, just like you would see in general fitness, right? Like we're going to do three sets of ten on bench press or three sets a tent on back squad. Well, that's great. How about we just put it all in one and now we have more exposure. So now I'm learning how to do the movements, and then you can't tell me that doing one thing once a week is actually going to make you learn the movement. So now you learn those little small video sequences that you see with thirty year experience power lifters who truly understand, like, move from body, this foot stance, or this is how I start to hinge here within my squat X degree. And that's how they perfected is because they have so much exposure to it. So we're doing the same thing. We're just trying to create exposure at lower thresholds and and in doing it often now as faras general population, what's the number one concern? But I don't have enough time. Oh, really? You don't have a thirty minute today, twenty to thirty minutes a day to not kind ofwork. Now. Every day I call B s. I say You just don't want to train. So that's where my producing to me is beautiful in the general population is because it's living the way you start your day. It's lunch, or it's when you get off work. Perfect. You can pick any of those three slots twenty, thirty minutes. You can eat and shower and get backto work or before work. So you can't tell me that everybody doesn't have that situation. So now, creating training frequency, you're getting enough volume throughout the week. Now we have on and then most importantly, like you brought up if I just had to miss that one day, it's ten percent of my training like it's not well, only train twice a week, So fifty percent of my training is gone. So that's where I think it's beautiful. And that's where he could work from general population to the most elite athletes in the world and the reason why I say the most elite athletes in the world because I just so happen to train to of So I do it with all these populations

>> Live from Las Vegas it's theCUBE, covering AWS re:Invent 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. >> Hey welcome back everyone, we're here live in Las Vegas, for AWS re:Invent 2018. Our sixth year covering, I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Dave, it's been a wild ride, a lot going on, changing formations over the years, cloud is kickin' butt. >> Innovation, growth. >> Partnership with VMware's paying dividends. The ecosystem's evolving, startups are having opportunities. C-Chains is here. Tom Gillis, Senior Vice President and General Manager Networking and Security Business Unit at VMware is our next guest. Great to have you Tom, thanks for comin' on. >> Thanks gentlemen for havin' me. Yeah, it's good to be here. >> I'm glad you're on, because one of the things I'm always excited about is networking. If Stu Miniman were here, he'd be all over this conversation as well. It's hard, it's been part of the holy trinity of infrastructure, network, compute, storage, is never going away, but it's changing. There's new abstraction layers, there's new opportunities, you're now living and breathing and working on with VMWare, and they just, ways to make networking better. How's it going, what's the update, what's going on in networking, this Outpost deal is really interesting. You bring in worlds together, in a consistency-- >> You hit the nail on the head, right. We're bringing the worlds together. And I think, one of the things we're seeing, is that, in the enterprise, enterprise IT is looking at an increasingly heterogeneous data center environment. In in the next 12 months, you're going to have data center, where one rack is running EC2, and your data center, one rack is running vSphere, in your data center, another workload is running on Amazon, another one is running out of the Edge, so tying this all together creates some challenges, and this is a problem I think VMWare is uniquely suited to solve, networking is the fabric that connects all these disparate islands, and lets them talk to each other, lets them talk to each other in an orderly way, right? So, networking is about connectivity. It's also about policy enforcement, those are the two things we focus on with the intersects team at VMWare. >> And I'll say, as the landscape changes around how cloud impacts it, no perimeter, but networking still has to move packets from A to B, storage goes from now to then, so things are moving around. So networking is constant, straightforward and consistent, you got to move packets around. >> Yes, this is an important thing that I think people get confused on, is, when they understand, they look at the numbers that we're posting in networking, it's all software networking, right? We don't move packets from A to B. We do the policy administration. So, something has to move the packets from A to B. Cisco's switches, Arista's switches, there's a lot of really good networking hardware out there that's not going to go away any time soon. But I always say, use the right tool for the right job, so, a product like Cisco ACI is a fabric manager for a switch. And NSX is a policy layer, right. It's a software networking layer, and something we learned from the public cloud is that, you can automate network deployment using this software networking approach. How many networking people does it take to deploy a workload on AWS? >> Zero. >> Zero! You push a button and it goes. So we're giving you that same capability on-prem, within a stack, so it's automation that allows you to automatically spin up and deploy a network, and a policy to go with that network that makes sense. >> How does that impact the largest networking vendor on the planet, Cisco? How does that scenario, and how do you guys work together? Is it conflicting, is it together? >> As you pointed out, the electrons have to move from A to B and Cisco is really, really good at doing that, actually moving electrons, doing it cost effectively, efficiently, at scale, hard problem to do. So we work very closely with Cisco to make sure that, NSX and, you know, Cisco's products, are interoperable, that they work together, they solve different problems. The problem that we solve with NSX is the policy piece of it, web server can talk to app server, can talk to database. That's a very simple policy, but when you try to express that in IP addresses, that could be 5,000 firewall rules, and in NSX that's one rule, it's English language. So it's that simplicity of software networking, allows us to enforce policy, in a increasingly heterogeneous environment. >> Okay, so let's talk about Outpost a little bit. You're got two versions, if you will. You've got VMWare Cloud on AWS Outpost, and then your piece, which is the cloud foundation for EC2 on Outpost, so that's low-latency, it's consistent networking, talk about that piece of it, drill down, and some of the challenges that you had to solve. >> So, as you pointed out, we think Outpost is an industry-defining announcement, because it's really blurring the line between private and public cloud. And VMWare and Amazon have partnered very deeply to continue to make this just feel like one thing. And the piece of the puzzle that we bring to the table is infrastructure, so policy management, that connectivity, the web server talks to app server, who gets to talk to who, security policies, data management and protection policies, these are things that customers expect from us. It's very easy for us to deliver that in a VMWare, vSphere environment. I think you talked to my colleague Mark Lohmeyer, about VMC that's going to run on Outpost, that's a VMWare environment running on Amazon hardware. We also are introducing services that are going to provide VMWare capability in a native EC2 environment running on Outpost, that's what we call VMWare Cloud Foundation, or VCF for short. >> That's a particular instance of Outpost, there's also the Amazon version, how do you guys doing under the covers? Explain how it works from a VMWare standpoint on the premised piece? Talk about under the covers. >> As you pointed out, the trick is to get all these disparate hybrid, you know, clouds, these different kind of islands the capacity to talk to each other. And so we've worked very closely with Amazon team to take NSX networking, embed it into Outpost so it can talk seamlessly to enterprise networks of all shapes and sizes. That's a deep, important part of the relationship. And in addition to that, we're putting the VCF capability into EC2 to extend consistent policy enforcement, either in a vSphere environment, private thing that you're managing, the hybrid thing that maybe VMWare is managing, or that Amazon's managing, in any scenario we're going to give you one set of policy, one set of enforcement across all of this with VMWare Cloud Foundation, as well as the VMC on AWS. >> The software engineering and engineering in general for the data center, where there's hardware, software, the generations of developers have all had the same kind of language, just changes tone. Put a wrapper around it! Container, VMs, but now all the same principles. You want to make something smarter and better like an old mission critical work load, you put a wrapper around it, you kind of put software around it, and you can still run that and have new modern ways to add value to it, connector, whether it's a Micro service or an API, is a trend, the heterogeneous environment you just described, EC2 rack over here, isn't this kind of like a container for the data center? In a way? >> My view on this, and I think Amazon is really pioneering this front, the data center is becoming an appliance. When you think about it, like, every enterprise is buildin their own data center with their own pieces parts, that's nuts! It'd be like, every company building their own furniture. Yeah, you could do it, but like, really? Wouldn't you just rather buy this desk from a furniture maker? And so, Amazon has built an incredibly efficient, incredibly powerful, call it an appliance, this hardware infrastructure, that works, and it works at scale, and it's easy to use, and you can get it in two days, it ships with Amazon Prime, that is super compelling. And I think a huge amount of customers are going to look for that simplicity, that easy of use, what's necessary, you pointed this out, is an abstraction, software abstractions, that's what VMWare does. We create software abstractions to simplify the administration of all the bits and bytes, all the electrons that are flowing from A to B. We make that stuff easier to manage, with virtualization technology, that is an abstraction. >> Operational-wise, I think it is the very key point too. How do you get it to run? (chuckles) Operating the networks, operating the data center, operating systems that feed developers value and giving developers a programmable infrastructure, that's the vision of a software-defined data center. >> So, you talkin about, data centers as an appliance, I always thought Larry Ellison had it right. You develop all these appliances, like the iPhone, for enterprise, the problem was just Oracle, very narrow set of use-cases. I feel like, in a way, that I felt when the Warriors got K.D. Right? That's what Outpost to me, is like, it's almost like an unfair advantage-- >> Game over! >> It changing the game, here, so I, look, VMWare is a software company, you love anybody who will run your software on their hardware. >> But Even Duran is a great analogy. >> But you got to think, that the guys who been playing in this, you know, on-prem cloud market, are going to say, "Whoa, what do we do now? How do we respond," how do you think that affects some of your other partners? >> I think the magic of what Amazon is doing, is it's simplicity from A to Z, meaning, I have a work load, I need to deploy it, I push a button, two days later, this rack of hardware shows up at my data center, you plug it in, it talks to the cloud, it hooks itself, like, that's awesome, right? >> Patches itself, I don't have to worry about it. >> The thing they got to remember, is that data center is a means to an end, not an end in itself, right? What is a data center supposed to, it's powering software that powers the business, and companies are spending too much time building the machinery to power the software to power the business, and they want to focus on the software that's powering the business. >> Software is the world. >> Too much head count, involved in-- >> It's just a lot of work, a lot of energy, a lot of bandwidth, a lot of attention, a lot of arguing, a lot of debate. >> Move that head count into high-value activities. >> Exactly. >> That is really, I think, the key point. And again, it became its own cottage industry, for the wrong reason! >> Yeah, I feel like, working with Amazon, we can simplify how you build, deploy a data center. There's an unsung hero in this equation, that is Intel. Intel is just making these processors faster, stronger, and so, we see less and less need for highly-specialized general, specialized servers, we can go with a more generalized compute infrastructure that can cover a wider array of workloads, including networking. We're using Intel processors, and we're running 40 gigs of enterprise-grade networking-- >> I got to say Tom, that's a great to point out Intel, I was reading the news on my phone, just in between breaks here, the news articles, "Oh, Intel's new competition with ARM," what they don't understand is, this is a massively expanding addressable market. So it's not a winner-take-all, Intel doesn't have to get every deal. 'Cause there's specialism at the silicon-level now, to power these software abstractions. >> To your point too, a decade ago Paul Muret said, "We're going to run any workload, "any application, anywhere in the world, on VMWare," and a lot of people laughed. And said, "You're not going to move some of the SAP stuff, or Oracle stuff," it all went, I mean, except for very, very few. And that's to your point, it's a general purpose system now, that can pretty much do any mainstream commercial app. >> So with the power of an abstraction layer, now we can optimize, and I think we're still learning the details of what exactly Amazon's done to optimize, but we all know, it's powerful, right? And now, you can get that in Outpost. >> They've got some street cred! >> Yes, they've got some street cred, yes. >> Tom, great insight, thanks for coming on theCube. >> Gentlemen, thank you for having me, this is good-- >> Great stuff, Senior Vice President, Senior Executive at VMWare, breaking down the relationship with Amazon, it's like the Golden State Warriors getting Kevin Duran, they run the table, if they had Lebron, that'd be like, best analogy. We'll be back with more live coverage here at theCube cover of AWS Reinvented after this short break. Stay with us. (punchy electronic music)

(upbeat music) >> Live, from Miami Beach, Florida, it's theCUBE, covering UiPath Forward Americas. Brought to you by UiPath. >> Welcome back to the former home of Lebron James, I'm Dave Vellante, this is two minimum, we are here at South Beach at the hotel Fontainebleau. This is UiPath Forward Americas, and this is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage Leo Da Silva is here, he is the process excellent leader for Best Day Travel and Arnold Schiemann who's Vice President of Latin America and Spain. You get to go to all the fun places for Symphony. Welcome to theCUBE >> Thank you, thank you guys for your invitation >> You're very welcome, Leo let's start with you Best Day Travel, travel site, specializing in Mexico and other parts of the region tell us about the company >> Well, we have a leadership in Mexico we are, the last year we have five point four million travelers, okay? And there's a lot of people, okay? We've been in the business for 35 years, 34 years actually, okay? So, we're pretty solid, okay? While 75% of the all the transactions we have online, okay? And 25% we have offline, and that's why we're doing, all the transformation that we're doing is under this 25%, alright? Like, just to get the additional transformation and everything. >> So 35 years, so you started before the internet (Leo laughing) >> So I guess you should be 100% offline you obviously successfully made that transition. >> That's correct, that's correct. >> Okay, and Arnold, Symphony is the solution provider right? the implementation partner in this case, right? tell us about symphony and your role. >> Well, Symphony is probably the is particularly, suddenly concentrated on our PA management and our PA design, and our PA process rewardization. We were invited by Best Day Travel Group to look at the process, to look at the project and we embark in a very interesting transformation for them, so that they could move into their PA arena with a clear road map. >> So you guys are both process experts I mean that's, >> Yes >> You've got process in your title talk more about your role, if you would. >> Yeah, well, I'm a green belt, okay? And at least six sigma, and we use this methodology actually, and we are like, two years ago we implemented like a BPM, the department, you know inside the company, just to lead this transformation, okay? So that's what we're seeking right now to lead this transformation and, it's a very good challenge, you know? It's not easy, but we are trying to do our best. >> With your six sigma background, I think it would really tie right into what RPA is, 'cause you can really understand what has variance, and what is pretty standardized and that would seem is that the direct correlation with thing that you can have, the robot and the automation based on, really, the variance piece? >> Yes, totally, you know, well, when you start, all the implementation was right before where start you like to do a benchmark and you're able to see which technology we wanted to use and well, we found UiPath, alright? In which we found Symphony, and but it's not exactly, I think the technology is the last thing, right? So, the technology is the enabling alright? To do all those thing happening but if you don't have, like process management, you know, if you don't have that, it's kind of difficult to reach the target, okay? So, yeah, it's pretty much, I think it's when you, I think the most challenging is let people know what they're doing wrong you know, what they're doing repeating tasks, right so, when you do, like, the process walk through, people just get amazed, you know, like, what? Are you serious, we're doing that? >> When did you start? >> We started in February >> This year? >> Yeah >> Okay, so, take us back to February or January whatever, December, when you were maybe even before that, thinking about the business case. How did it come about, and how'd you guys meet? Take us through the sort of initiative. >> Yeah, well, right before, it was six months before I think it was, on July of last year, we started a conversation, right? And when I found that, within like six months of benchmarking and, we reached that like UiPath, and we start to ... trying to get something different, you know? To do something different enterprise and we had this need, okay? From inside, you know, from back office to tranformate because it's operation sometimes it costs a lot, alright? The first step that we did was like a future of work accelerator, okay? Which is, it's this scan, it's a total scan of the area, okay? And to see how how big are the opportunities, okay? To transformate things, right, so was the first step and after we had the pilot, we have three or four projects ongoing. >> And you were involved from the beginning Arnold, last July? >> Yes, yes >> One thing which was really very interesting about the project is that the client was the C.E.O and the C.F.O was totally the C-suite involvement So, and we believe that our PA is about the business, is about the process, it was ideal. So, we had really I believe it was really not work but, really a good time that we spent together integrating very closely with the team from Best Day Travel Group, to the point that you couldn't tell who was from Best Day and who was from Symphony, and then we were able to present to the C-suite, the result of the road map to move forward with a very clear business case, the process that was going to be robotized. Simultaneously, Best Day wanted approved inside, saying lets develop robotized version of one of the processes, and we did one which had been quite successful, we were just talking that the amount of work that that robot is handling today life, is such that either robot doesn't operate, he wouldn't know what to do because there is so much work to do behind in the past, and he doesn't know what he did, but today, it is almost impossible to recreate that. >> Yeah, that's correct, singularity is here >> One of the things that maybe you can help me understand, 'cause I'm a little bit new to this technology, how do you figure out, how do you size this, like how do you know how many things a robot can do, we heard one of the customers has a thousand robots, how does this scale, and how does this build out inside of a customer? >> Two thing that we do is that we look at the company, we identify those process, with heavy like, say, head count with lots of repetitive tasks that can be partially or totally robotized, and then we present it as a road map because the first question they have is "how do we start?" I mean, this is a company, 3000 people 4 million passengers, where do we start? How we get good advantage of the robots and that's how we did it, and then it's going on, the project we just did the first part, we continue now with the second part which is going to be even more interesting. >> What'd the business case look like? I mean, was it a saving money, making presumably some of this was cost reduction right off the bat, right? >> Yes, yes >> Lets talk about that business case what's that framework look like? >> Well, the action will have a pilot, that we just did, we launched already, alright? The business case was like, to to reduce cost, alright? The operational cost is very high, okay? So, now, we have like, just to have an idea the situation before would have, like six person working, you know, like the eight hour shift, okay? And doing like issuing tickets and you know and right now we have, like, just one robot and we built a capability of, 126% okay? On this, just with one robot, alright, and yeah, it's amazing, its amazing and 24/7, you know, right now it working pretty fine. >> Specifically, where do the cost savings come from? >> Well, the cost savings is not exactly that ease, but it's a customer's experience, okay? And also the capability that you can build alright? To get more sales, okay? And there's another project that, before that we had the first one, we have to to reduce the cost of the operation you, know, for 65 people, alright? And ... the transactions cost a lot of money for us, okay? So that's how we're trying to we're trying to understand that and we're trying to eliminate those costs or reduce, you know like, as much as we can. >> Its a part of that, you redeploy people, you put 'em on other tasks, is that what you're doing? >> Yes, yes, we free them up, you put another, you add value task, right? >> So the C.F.O is one of the stakeholders here, >> It was >> So many C.F.Os might say "okay, well, we're "not going to cut head count, so where do I "get my savings?" so the answer, if I'm hearing it is well we're going to increase revenue because these people are going to be on other tasks, and >> That's it, yes >> And, do you have visibility in line of sight as to how fast that can happen, whether, is it already starting to happen? >> Yeah, it already start to happen, already start to happen, like in, you know, this project was we have the roll back in 15 days >> I was going to ask you what the break even was it was inside of a month? >> You know, its already paid, it all 15 days, it's already paid, right so, yeah, the C.F.O is pretty happy with that. >> The first project was relatively small right? >> Yeah, yeah yeah. >> You proved it out and now you're going to throw gasoline on the fire >> That's it, that's it. >> That's great, so what's next for you guys? >> Well, next, we are go to the customer service you know, like ano-traceability, there's a traceability project that we have to do, alright? Just to ... To have the client in front of everything, you know? So that's our strategy right now and we're going to do, well Symphony is going to help us out with our PA and with implementation and the process, because its going to be a new process, it doesn't exist, alright? So there's going to be a brand new one so we have to create from scratch. >> Arnold, I wonder if you can go a little broader for us on this, it sounds like you've got a perfect partner inside the company with, you know, process in his title you've got the C-suite engaged, is that a typical deployment, what are you finding? >> Is not typical but it is, that is something that we look for all the time. 'cause it's, if the client is not engaged, we can do nothing, if the C-suite is not engaged, there is very little process people can do and by being engaged the C-suite, we're driving the cost reductions, but there is another point besides cost, consistency, and also we are eliminating side loss that had existed for long time, 'cause the companies are starting with one organization then another one, another one and all of them touch the customer what the probably will be doing to them hopefully before the end of the year, early next year, to be able to see the transverse of the customer, one and a half million passengers arriving to Cancún and they are passengers. But you don't know how many people will come back so you better know that these guys came here they like to go to the scuba diving next time he's around, we can offer him a scuba diving, we can pick him up from the airport, we can offer other services and then, the company is structured to be exponentially, so that you can grow from 4 million to 8 million passengers without adding head count, adding, that is the future of Best Day Travel Group and that's why we have engaged the management. >> Okay, so you're looking at the moon shot double the number of passengers served with the same head count, that's a huge productivity boost, so I'm hearing 15 day break even, some of that was hard cost reduction, its revenue increased, its proven, now you're going to invest more consistency, better customer service, cross selling, hey they like to scuba dive, maybe we can make an offer here, and better data allows you to do that that's going to summarizes the the business case and we're talking I mean, I don't want to, you know, squeeze the M.P.V at it, but we're talking millions? Hundreds of thousands? >> Millions >> Hundreds of millions? >> Millions right? >> Yeah, yeah, pretty much, it's a huge number you, know, its a huge number and, we have a lot of opportunities and, I think it's going to be a success, you know? >> And presumably the employees want to be part of this ride, right? They want to get, whether it's re-trained, or become R.P.A experts, deploy this technology, drive their digital automation and service those 8 million customers with the same resources you know, or invest in other resources. >> yes >> New growth areas. >> Yes, yes. >> Great story >> Yeah, it is, it is, >> we're working hard >> (laughs) figuring it out >> We're privileged to have been work with them because they are, I say unique but it was done for us from day one everything was put in place, engagement, people, and then the company itself is very easy to manipulate and transform because of the way that it was structured 30 years ago. >> And why UiPath? I mean, you said I chose them last summer why, why'd they win? >> Well, because of, well during a benchmarking, I can see a lot of difference between them, you know? And we have concluded that, well they actually Symphony recommend us, alright? So, you want this, you want that for this situation, it's going to be the best solution, right? And after that, we're pretty sure that it's it's the best it's the best choice, right? Because of the personalities, because a lot of stuffs that they have they can bring to us, you know? >> Do you worry about, do you worry about shadow R.P.A, like (laughter) >> The divisions going off and doing their own robots, or have you guys got a handle on that? >> Yeah, you know (laughing) no, not worried about that, you know, but yeah it's going to happen. >> It's a good thing. >> Alright, gentlemen, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE it was great to have you. >> Thank you for inviting us >> Alright keep it right there everybody, Stu and I will be back at UiPath Forward Americas right after this short break, you're watching theCube, we'll be right back. (closing music)

(Music) >> Announcer: Live from the Bill Graham Auditorium, in San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Pure Storage accelerate, 2018. Brought to you by Pure Storage. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, we are live at Pure Storage Accelerate, 2018 at the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium in San Francisco. I'm Lisa Martin sporting Prince today, with Dave Vellante sporting The Who. And I'm sandwiched, most importantly, between two Celtics fans. And the Warriors are across the bay. We'll save that for after the conversation. So we want to welcome to theCUBE for the first time Ken Ringdahl the VP of Global alliance Architecture. From Veeam, welcome. >> Great. Thank you, Lisa. >> Dave: Well the truth be told, we're afraid of the warriors, okay. We really don't want to play the Warriors. >> Oh really, alright. >> And we're not afraid of many people in Boston, but I don't know, they look pretty good. >> Well, I appreciate the honesty, that's pretty cool. >> Well... Though they lost last night. Right? We're going to start the sports talk now. >> Yep. >> Iguodala was out, they showed some foulability. So, anyway. >> We digress to- >> We'll be back to it later on in this segment stay tuned. >> Alright, so you're just fresh off Veeam On, last week. We're impressed that you still have a voice, you've recovered from that. Tell us a little bit about some of the things that are new with Veeam and Pure. So just a month ago, in April, new intergradation between VM availability platform, and Pure Storage flash a way to deliver business continuity, agility, intelligence for the Cloud era. Expand a little bit upon that. >> Yeah, sure, I mean really this integration with Pure Storage, in the VM backup and replication product, end of last year we introduced this new functionality called Universal Storage API. And what this really is, is a way for us to enable our partners to take control of their destiny a little bit more. It's a program we invite our partners into, you know Pure is one of the first that we integrated with, and invited into the program very early. We announced this last year, and we've now finished the integration, as you've mentioned, we announced it last month. It's now been out there, and I think the number I heard earlier today is that we've already had a couple hundred downloads and deployments. So that's just great adoption, and just shows the pent up demand for that. But what we've integrated is the ability for our partners, our storage partners in particular to integrate with our storage snapshot technology to really off load the snapshot from the VMware side, and really put more of it on the storage side, and take it really off the production environment. And so it's a better together story where you know we take the feature that we've introduced into the backup and replication, and Pure built this plug-in, and they integrate with their own APIs and we jointly test and develop, and release that plug-in. And they can install it with VM backup and replication, and it really takes the mention, it takes that load off the production environment. So that snapshot without this integration, it's a VMware snapshot, that snapshot stays open as long as the backup is. Which can be minutes, and you know tens of minutes potentially for a large system. But now we shrink that down literally to just seconds. So we take a VMware snapshot, we take the Pure snapshot, we close the VMware snapshot. And typically it's like 10-12 seconds long where as opposed to the minutes, and even tens of minutes from before. So, really it's really offloading a lot of that back up impact, and we're able to do it in a very secure quiesce fashion from the production environment. >> Lets roll back and understand that a little bit better. >> Ken, if you could explain it to us and our audience. In the 2008, seven, eight, nine timeframe. Virtualization Gem of VMware in particular started to take hold. And you ended up replacing a bunch of physical servers with virtual servers, which was awesome, because all those physical servers were underutilized, except for one major workload, which was backup. So when you did want to do the backup, you didn't have enough resources. Veeam's ascendancy coincided with that trend, so there was a simplicity component, but it seems like what you're describing now is another instantiation of offloading that bottle neck. So what was the journey to Veeam's efficiency in a virtualization environment? >> Ken: Yeah if you look at that journey, and Veeam really grew up in the virtualization age, right. So backup prior to VM, or virtualization was all agent based, it was physical. So everything was over the wire, and Veeam went and said, hey look you know we see VMware really sort of growing, and we see that trend towards virtualization, right, and at this point, what's the world 95 percent virtualized, at this point the only workloads that aren't virtualized are really legacy work loads. And so we made a significant leap forward in a data protection stance, by integrating with the hyper visors. So instead of off loading that into the individual guests, right. The Windows guest, the Linux guest. We said, okay we're going to go the hyper visor. Right? And we're going to do this in an agent less fashion, so that you don't have to go an visit every little, every system that you're looking to backup. That was sort of the first step, right. Now what we're saying is we can do even better. And we can off load the hyper visor, and off load that to the storage system. So we can have a very small impact on the hyper visor, really minimize that. And now really put that workload on the storage system which has a lot of extra cycles and availability, and we can go straight to the backup environment. And not through the VM, or through the hypervisor to get there. >> Dave: So VMware admins, they don't like snapshots because it's overhead intensive, it clogs up their system if you will. This capability makes that transparent, or irrelevant to them? >> It does, it minimizes them to such a small degree that it's a blip. You know it's a little blip on the radar, as opposed to when you snapshot a VM you're essentially quiescing that VM, so everything sort of slows down for a very short period of time. And what happens is that it spawns another virtual disc. So while that snapshot is open this other virtual disc is being written to. And then when you close that snapshot, and you remove that snapshot, that disc gets merged back in, right. This is generally how VMware snapshots work. And what we're saying is we're going to minimize as much as we possibly can. The data that goes in there, so if you think of a running virtual machine, if you're merging back in a Gigabyte disc versus a disc that has 10 Megabytes, you know that's going to be really, really quick, as opposed to, you know if you keep that snapshot open for a long period of time that merge operation, and it just slows things down, and we're trying to minimize that impact on the system. >> Lisa: So business benefits; I get the performance improvements that this integration with Pure facilitates, if we think of this in the context of digital business transformation, where companies that are doing well, have the ability to really glean actionable insights from their data to be able to drive, you know, new products and get products to market faster. Is this actually going to facilitate a company being able to get new products to market faster? >> Absolutely, so there a feature inside of VM backup and replication we call data labs. And what data labs is, is the ability to take a production snapshot, in this case, we're talking about a pure snapshot, and be able to stand that up in a sandbox environment. And you can run DEV tests, you can apply your Windows' patches in an environment that literally matches production. And it's a key differentiator. It's a key differentiator for Veeam, and it's enabled by the Pure Snapshot integration that you have this environment, and even if you have an infected system, you go put it over in data labs, it's sandboxed, so you can put in a private network so it doesn't have any connectivity. Say if you have a worm, or some other ransom ware, you can run analytics, you can run diagnosis on any of that, and not worry about it infecting any other environment, nor does it put work load on your production environment. So you get patched Tuesday, right, and we all know that Windows' patches don't always go as they seem, right? So data labs, let's take that Pure snapshot, let's stand up a virtual environment, which exactly matches production, let's test that patch, right. And we have confidence there, so when we go to production, we have confidence because we've already done it. We've already run that in production. So there's a lot of value in that capability. >> So we were at Veeam On last week fresh off the Kool-Aid injection. It's all orange here, it was all green at Veeam in Chicago. The messaging there was all about multi-cloud and hyper availability in this multi-cloud world. We're hearing a lot about cloud like function here, but of on prem activity. Of course multi-cloud includes on prem, so I wonder if you could dove tail your messaging last week, what you're seeing in the field, and what you're seeing with the partnership with companies like Pure. >> Yeah no question. I mean the Veeam platform, and really you saw it last week at Veeam On we talked kind of about sort of private cloud, and public cloud and our ability to orchestrate, and really stretch across all those environments, and we know that customer all the way from SMB all the way up to enterprise, right. They have remote offices, branch offices some of them use the cloud, some of them use multiple data centers, and really they need their data protection to be able to stretch across those environments. They don't want point solutions in each of those locations. They want a platform that they can trust, and have visibility, right. That's one of the five stages that we talked about about hyper availability, like last week. Is visibility, they want visibility across those clouds. Phase two is aggregation, they want to be able to aggregate all these different places. And that's what we provide our customers with the platform is backup, visibility, aggregation, orchestration, automation. And we provide them on different stages of that journey for our customers. We have different products, services and integration actions with our partners, that really help our customers along that journey. >> We know from our research, the crew at Wiki Bond does some great work on this. We know that data protection, and orchestration are moving up on the list of CXO priorities. At the same time, for a lot of IT practitioners who are under real budget constraints it's like trying to sell more insurance to a 24 year old. So those are kind of two countervailing trends, what are you seeing in the market place? >> What we're seeing is customers, you know down time is really is gone. I mean, I think last week we heard in one of our keynotes, you know you roll back a couple of years, you were talking about availability in terms of five-nines, right? Now it's zero. I mean people don't talk about down time because down time can't exist, and customers need that sense of security and availability. You know, it will happen, lets face it even Amazon, the best data centers in the world, go down, right, there's been some notable S3 outages, but it's about how fast can you recover. And you're talking about low RPOs, and one of the things that this week at Pure Accelerate we're hearing a lot about rapid recovery, flash blade, and the ability and you take rapid recovery and flash blade, and you combine that with the Veeam platform and our instant recovery, and you can get to near zero time recovery, in your environments. To really provide that security, and lets face it, time is money for a lot of our customers, right? So they longer they're down, the more time their losing money, they need availability, and the RPOs are near zero these days. = [Dave] The other thing, if I may just follow up, just one follow up. The other thing our research shows is the average Fortune 1000 company, over a three or four year period is leaving, literally, a billion plus dollars on the table because of poorly architected backup, or inadequate backup. So that's a huge opportunity for you and others, obviously. There's a lot of opportunity right now for vendor turn. That's the other thing our research shows, is that people aren't wed to their backup and recovery vendor. So, does that resonate with customers, are they because of digital, for example, are you seeing that tipping point, that critical mass occur, and then if you could tie that in to sort of your partnership with Pure, I'd be interested in that. >> Sure, yeah, no doubt about it. We're seeing customers, you know, they want that flexibility and that portability. One of the things we do with out platform, it's one of our unique selling features is is that it is agnostic, right. And I'll tie it back to Pure in a moment, but you know when we back up, we back up in a storage agnostic fashion. So any Veeam backup that lands on a disc on the tape anywhere, can be reconstituted, can be re imported, so even if you have a full disaster scenario, we can go stand that back up some where else, and fully consume that backup and restore it, and we have direct restore capabilities. We can port those backups and direct restore them. For example, a direct restore Azure, for example. So that flexibility, and portability is extremely valuable. Now, bring that back to Pure, some of the things we're doing around rapid recovery around the snapshot integration, we talked about is we're really enabling customers to have high performing primary storage environments. High performing secondary storage environments. And really bring that together in a way that works. We talked about multi cloud, right, you know, remote data centers and work across, and aggregate and give visibility. That's really where the Veeam Pure story together, becomes really strong because you've got an incredibly high performing primary and secondary with a highly flexible, portable secondary data protection environment. And you get the capability to get to the cloud. You know DL, a lot of customers looking to the cloud for DR, because they don't have to stand up infrastructure there. When they need it, they can spin it up, and then they can bring it back. And there's a lot of value there. >> I hear a lot of harmony, but I actually read recently, online, that a different analyst firm called the Pure Veeam relationship a match of opposites. Now they say opposites attract, and you've done a great job of talking about the integration, do you agree that it's a good blending of opposites, and if so what's that kind of symbiotic benefit that those bring to each other? >> Yeah, I don't know that I saw that report, but what I would say you know, there's a lot of synergy, we're growing at a very rapid rate, I think. When I looked at Pure, and I look at Veeam we grew 36 percent last year, I think Pure is growing at like 50 percent year over year. We have NPS scores, our NPS score is 73, we're really proud of that. The Pure NPS score, I think I saw- >> 83. >> Ken: 83. >> Dave: I didn't think it could be higher than 73. >> It's incredible. It is incredible, and I think there is a lot of synergy, the size of the organizations, I think the age of our organizations, the aggressiveness that we have, we have joint competitors in the market, so I think there's a lot of synergies between where we are as an organization, as Veeam, and where Pure is. I wish I read the article in terms of the opposites, because I'd love to understand. >> Personally, as a long time analyst, I would say the similarities are greater than the differences. >> Sure sounds like it. >> You're both about a billion dollars, you're both growing at lets call it 35-40 percent a year. You're both pursuing platforms, your both really aggressive, you're insanely passionate about your customers and winning. And you like colors, you like green, they like orange. Alright, we got to talk a little sports here. >> Lisa: Speaking of green. >> I'm going to start somewhere else though because I asked this question of a number of folks at Veeam On. If you were, Ken, if you were Robert Kraft would you have traded Tom Brady? >> {Ken] No. >> Elaborate. >> I think when you look at a, the guy was the MVP of the league last year, so that by itself stands on it's own, but you have to look and the Patriots have always been about, sort of you know, trading or moving on a year or two early, versus a year or two late. So you could make that case with Tom Brady, but I think there's always exceptions, and when you look at, I mean he is basically like an adopted son of Robert Kraft and the organization. He's brought five Superbowls, he's basically, he built Patriot place, you know. Robert Kraft built Patriot place on the backs of Tom Brady and Bill Belichik to that extent. But how do you move on from someone who's brought you so much success, that has been under market. You know, get paid under market so that they can go and do other things, and have flexibility with the gap. I just don't know how you could move on from that. >> So, that's consistent now, I think it's four for four of people we've asked, Boston fans. So appreciate that feed back. Let's talk a little hoops, you know Celtics we were feeling pretty good, up two zip, now it's tied two-two. Houston, Golden state, tied two-two. Those two teams have proven they could win on the road, Celtics haven't proven that yet. What are your thoughts on that series? >> Yeah so certainly Cleveland came storming back, I think the stories of the down fall of the Cavs were clearly over exaggerated. They came back in a big way. I think they Celtics started to figure out the Cavs in quarters two, three, and four. They got themselves in a big hole in the first quarter in the last game. I feel good, the Celtics are nine and O at home this year in the post season. You know, it's basically the best of three, and they have two of them at home, so. The Cavs will have to break serve if they want to win the series. >> Dave: If they're lucky enough to get through to the finals, which would be unbelievable, do they have any shot against the Warriors? >> So, I think to say they have no shot is probably going a little too far, but- >> Dave: Got to play the game. >> You know you got to play the games, and the Celtics have, traditionally, matched up well against the Warriors. I mean least year, the Celtic actually came into Oracle, and broke, I don't know, what was it, like a 50 game home winning streak or something. So, you know, and that was a team that didn't have Kyrie, or Gordon Haywood, and I know they're still out so the future looks bright for the Celtics. But in the context of this years finals, certainly, if I were a betting man, I'd be putting my money behind the Warriors, but I don't doubt that Brad Stevens could come up with a scheme that could steal a couple of games, and make people in the Bay area feel a little uneasy. >> Would love to see a non Lebron Final, you know. >> Yeah I think as the words would like the Celts >> Sorry Brandon, sorry buddy. >> A little diversity, you know three years in a row we've had the same things, so I'll extend my support to the Celtics in honor of both of you guys. >> Alright, and we can talk, if they get to the finals then we can take it from there. >> I can't imagine what the day after the Superbowl was like for both of you. We won't go there. >> I still haven't recovered, so. >> (laughs) Awesome, well Ken, thanks so much for stopping by. Congrats on being a CUBE alumni, now. We look forward to seeing you Veeam World in just a few months time. >> Yes, great. Thank you. We'll be there for sure. >> For Dave Vellante, I am Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE live from Pure Accelerate 2018. Stick around, Dave and I will be back with a wrap in just a moment. (music)

(upbeat electronic music) >> Announcer: Live from Chicago, Illinois, it's theCUBE, covering Veeamon 2018. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to Chicago everybody, the Windy City, you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage and we're here day two at Veeamon 2018, theCUBE's second year doing Veeamon, and I'm Dave Vellante, with my cohost, Stu Miniman. Patrick Osborne is here, the newly minted VP and GM of big data and secondary storage. >> And CUBE alumni. >> HPE and many time CUBE alumni, did you get a sticker? >> Yeah, it's already on my laptop. >> Oh, awesome, great to see you again. >> Good to see you guys. >> Thanks so much for coming on, always fun at Veeamon. >> Yep. >> They have a big presence. Your show, HPE Discover, they painted the Chi-Town green. >> Patrick: Yep. >> What's going on at the show for you guys? >> So a huge partner for us, in our ecosystem, as you guys know, HPE and the world of virtualized workloads, like, you know, we definitely own the space in terms of the number of Veeams sitting on our infrastructure and they are a great partner. You know, we've got thousands of customers, and I think what we're seeing, too, is that as Veeam grows up into the midsize and enterprise space, that is, you know, that's where our wheelhouse is. And so we're getting a lot of customer interactions in that space, and then, with some of our offerings around Nimble and SimpliVity, where they play very well in the commercial segments, that's a great way for us to go grab new logos, be present in the channel. So it's a really good partnership for us on both ends. >> I definitely want to understand what's going on in big data, but before we get there, let's talk a little bit about secondary storage and your point of view there. We know that data protection is moving way up on the list of CXO priorities, we also know there's a dissonance in the customer base, between the expectations of how much automation is actually there from the line of business, versus what IT can deliver. >> Patrick: Yeah, yeah. >> And so there's this gap and now you have multi-cloud coming on in a big way, digital transformation, and so it feels like backup and recovery and data protection is transforming. Throw in security and it even complicates it further. What's your point of view on what's going on in this mix? >> Well, certainly the sands are shifting in the secondary storage market. I think because of a heightened customer expectation in this area, whether it's, you know, I want to do more with my data, running things that we do at Veeam, like test data, automation, Sandboxing, security, you know, ransomware. All those are higher level data services than just what people were doing in the past around backup and recovery. So for us, we're really focused a lot on automation right in this space. The death of backup and recovery in that traditional space is essentially caused by comPlexxity, right? So automate or die in this space, nobody wants to deal with backup, right? What you want is outcomes, and what we're doing is, for our product line, we've got sort of this three-tiered mantra, of predictive, cloud-ready and timeless. So we want to be able to, through platforms like InfoSite, be able to heavily, heavily automate all those activities. Cloud-ready, because, you know, as we talked before, it's a hybrid world. People, especially in secondary storage, want to have some data on-prem, and certainly a lot of it for archival and retention off-prem. And then, timeless is sort of this scenario around, even though I'm operating a data center, I want the purchasing experience to be elastic, and like, again, the cloud, right? So consumption-based as a service. So that's what we're trying to bring to the market for secondary storage and storage in general. >> Dave: Awesome. >> Patrick, as I look at this space, you talk about that hybrid, multi-cloud world that we talked about. The two big, main things are data and my applications. So you talked a bit about the data, connect for us, kind of the applications and things, cloud native and 12 factor microservices, versus traditional applications. And you've got that whole spectrum, what are you seeing from your customers and how are you helping them? >> Yeah, so, we're definitely seeing a lot of the tech leading customers in the enterprise from HPE, you know, the big logos, right? They're out there disrupting themselves, disrupting industry, are massively betting on analytics, right? So, they've moved certainly from databases to batch now, it's all, you know, I think people call it fast data, streaming analytics, Kafka, Spark. So we're seeing, that part of our business that HPE's growing, like, non-sequentially, right? So it's really good business for us. But what's going on right now, is that the customers who are doing this, these are all net new apps. Kubernetes, you know, new styles of application, it's not a rip and replace, it's more of an augmentation scenario, where you're providing new services on top of existing apps. So that is very new and I think one of the things we'll see over the next couple of years is, how do I protect those workloads? How do I provide multi-cloud for them? So it's an interesting space, it's very nascent, a lot of tech-heavy investment going on for the, you know, the big players in the market. But that's going to have a long tail into the mid range. >> How will the data protection architecture sort of change for those new emerging applications? You know, maybe IoT is another piece of that. And maybe, where does your partnership with Veeam fit into that? >> Yeah, so we are having a number of strategy discussions on that this morning, you know. And I think that space is, you know, there's a lot of identification that has to go on. Do I want to back it up, do I care? Right, are those persistent streams? Or that IoT data that's coming in, do I really have to back it up at the end of the day or can I back up the results? So, a lot of it is not just an availability issue, it's certainly a data management issue. But a lot of the tools that we would need to do that, today, they're focused on bare-metal, VM wear, virtualization, a lot of stuff that hasn't been written yet, right? So I think there's a lot of actual tech development that has to go on in this space and I think we're kind of poised together as partners to deliver in that area the next couple years. >> You guys have this tagline, "We Make Hybrid IT Simple." >> Patrick: Yes. >> IT, you know-- >> Patrick: Very quantifiable. >> It ain't simple. (laughter) So, where does storage fit into that equation? >> Yeah, the stats that blow my mind was, I think IBC came out with this, was that there's essentially around 500 million apps in the data center today. And then, in any sort of spectrum of bare-metal, being virtualized, maybe being containerized, in the next four years there's going to be 500 million net new apps, right? So that's like, it's mind blowing, in terms of, most people have a flat budget, maybe a little increase. So you think that you're doubling the amount of apps you have and all the services around it. So for us, the automation piece is absolutely key, right? So anything we can do with InfoSite as a platform, we're going to be extending that to other products, you see we've done it for 3PAR, we'll be bringing that experience. But anything we can do around automation, analytics, that's going to take a lot of the mystery and comPlexxity out of managing these apps and services, I think is a win for the customers, and that's why they're going to buy into the platforms. >> Yeah, it's like, imagine if you're a young family, you've got two kids and you have twins. >> Patrick: Yeah. (laughter) >> Uh-oh. (laughs) >> Or you decide to have two more, like I did. (laughter) >> Patrick, we've been talking about intelligence in the storage world for decades. >> Yes. >> Why is it real, you know, more real and different now, than it was in some of the previous generations? >> Yeah, I think, you know, some of the techniques... So, we've had systems that have called home and brought telemetry home forever, right? But I think what's going on is that, as you take the tools that we've developed, and a lot of them are new, right, that are allowing you to do this, it's the practition of the data science, which is like the key, at the end of the day. InfoSite is an amazing piece of technology, a lot of the magic is in the way that you set up your teams, and to be able to take that on, right? So, it's no longer a product manager, an engineering guy, support person in a different organization, right? What we have is what's called a peak team, right? Which just takes all the functions, brings them together with a data scientist, to be able to take a look at, how can I do machine learning, AI, a more predictive model, to actually take use of this data, right? And I think the techniques and the organizational design is the big change that's happened over the last couple of years. Data's always been there, right? But now we know what to do with that. >> Yeah, and like you said before, the curve is reshaping, it's not this linear Moore's Law curve anymore. >> Patrick: Yeah. >> It's this exponential curve. >> Patrick: Exactly. >> I can't even draw it anymore you know, it used to be easy, just put the dotted line straight out, now it's twisting. So, that increases the need obviously, for automation. Now talk about how HPE's automation play is differentiable in the marketplace. >> So I think a couple of things from a differentiated perspective. Obviously we talked a lot about InfoSite as a platform, as a portfolio company, we're definitely trying to take out the friction, in terms of the deployment and automation of some of these big data environments. So our mission is to be able to, like you would stand up some analytic workloads in the public cloud, to provide that same experience, on-prem, right? And essentially be the broker for that user experience. So that's an area that we're going to differentiate, and then, you know, in general, there's not that many mega portfolio companies, right, anymore. And I feel like, that we're exploiting that for our customers, bringing together compute networking and storage. And certainly on the automation side. So you know, for us, I really feel that you're no longer going to be buying on horizontal lines anymore. You know, best of breed servers, best of breed networking, best of breed storage, but bringing together a complete, vetted stack for a set of workloads, from a vendor like HPE. >> Yeah, and it was just announced, the deal's not closed yet, but just to mention to the audience, HPE just made an acquisition of Plexxi, a networking specialist-- >> Patrick: Yeah, a good friend, too, Rich Napolitano. >> Rich Napolitano. Just this week, which is interesting, because that brings cloud scale to some of the hyperconvergence infrastructure. It's essentially hyperconverge networking, so really interested to see how that plays out. HPE has made a number of really effective acquisitions over the last several years, starting really with 3PAR, was the one. Clearly Aruba, you know, the Nimble acquisition, you know, SimpliVity, so, SGI. So some really strong, both tactical and strategic moves for HPE, really interested to see how Plexxi sorts out. Okay, we got to talk sports for a minute. I asked Peter McKay this question, I asked his boss, some sports fans, if you were Robert Kraft, would you have traded Tom Brady? >> (sharp inhale) No. >> No way? >> No way, no way. >> Okay, that's consistent with McKay. >> Yeah, no way, that's like trading Montana, that didn't work out. >> That did work out, right? They traded Montana, then they won another Superbowl. >> Yeah, I know, I mean, I think, for me, he's an icon and then he's still operating at maximum efficiency, which is amazing, but I think he got a lot of legs in him. >> What do you think of the... Well hopefully he stays, hopefully he does play 'til 45. What do you think of the Garoppolo trade, though? Are you disappointed that they didn't get more, or do you think it was the right move to hang on, just in case Brady went down again? >> I think it's the right move at the end of the day, right? You're not going to get much from him anyways, and they're certainly not going to pay him out as a backup quarterback. What I don't like, though, is the fact that he's gone to the 49ers, and that's where most of my engineering team is in the Bay Area. So, to have to deal with yahoo 49ers fans, you know, for the next couple years, is going to be painful. But it's good, it's a good renewed rivalry. >> So you're not a-- >> Celtics, Warriors, you know, Patriots, Niners. >> You're not an instant transplanted 49ers fan, because of Garoppolo, right? >> Patrick: No, absolutely not. >> He's a carpet-bagger, right? >> He's out, he's off the team, he's out of the house. >> I love it, okay, Bruins were a big disappointment this year. >> Yeah, yeah. >> We thought that, you know, the Celtics were super exciting, let's go there, I mean. You know, you watched the Celtics early in the year, 'cause your like, after Hayward went down, you're like, kind of' we were all walking around like this. And then you-- >> I felt like, it's like where Kennedy was shot, right? I know exactly where I was, right? >> Right, and you had people blaming Danny Ainge for, like, making a move, I'm like, come on, guys. And you see what happened with the young players, and then they sort of tailed off a little bit, they were struggling, you know, Ky was trying to find his way and now they're the exciting team. Up to on Cleveland, I mean, you got to believe that Lebron is going to step up his game with a little home cooking. But let's assume for a second that they get by Cleveland (laughs) which will be a huge task. I mean, I don't think there's anybody in the NBA who can stop Kevin Durant, but I'd love to see Marcus Smart try. >> So two things in that scenario. One is that, who needs Kyrie Irving more right now, Cleveland or Boston, right? (laughter) Which is amazing, can you imagine saying that a couple months ago? It blows my mind. And then, for me, it's a revamping of the NBA, right? If you get the Celtics versus the Warriors in that style of play, I mean, it's definitely, it's changed the whole game, right? Shooting guards, ballers, I think it's fantastic to see, you know, a whole new style of play in the NBA. >> It's so exciting to see the Celtics back in. >> Team basketball, defense, passing, all of it, it's great. >> And ESPN is losing their minds, they don't know what to do. Stephen A Smith doesn't know what to say. >> Patrick: ESPN Live. >> He's actually pissed I think, yeah. (laughter) So, now, Stu, you're a Yankees fan, of course, and you know my line on the Yankees. Stu's kind of a weekend Yankees fan. My line on the Yankees is, that sucks you can't beat us in April. (laughs) Here it is in May. >> Dave, I'm just quiet around you, because I know where my paycheck comes from. >> I appreciate that perspective, Stu, okay. >> Patriots win, we're in agreement. >> Think about all these renewed rivalries, it's great. Celtics, Sixers, Red Sox, Yankees, it's unbelievable. >> And like I said, San Francisco-- >> Patrick: Phillies! >> And the Pats. >> The Pats! >> Well Patrick, always a pleasure seeing you, thanks for making time out of your busy schedule. >> Yeah, absolutely, it was great. >> For coming on theCUBE. Alright, keep it right there everybody, we'll be back with our next guest, right after this brief break. You're watching theCUBE, Live from Veeamon 2018. (upbeat electronic music)